A CONFVTATION OF A book INTITVLED AN apology OF THE church OF ENGLAND, BY Thomas Harding DOCTOR OF divinity.  2. Timoth. 3. 
Quemadmodum Iannes& Mambres restiterunt Moysi, ita& hi resistunt veritati, homines corrupti inente, reprobi circà fidem. said vltrà non proficient: insipientia enim corum manifestaerit omnibus, sicut& illorum fuit.  
As Iannes and Mambres withstode Moyses, even so do these fellows also withstand the truth, men of a corrupt mind, and castaways as concerning the faith. but they shall not prevail any further: for their foolishness shall be open unto all men, as theirs was.  

SPES ALIT AGRICOLAS   Woodcut printer's device of a farmer sowing seed (not in McKerrow).  
Imprinted at antwerp, by john Laet, with privilege. 1565.   


HONY· SOYT· QVI MAL· Y· PENSE   Royal blazon or coat of arms of Queen Elizabeth I. 
E. R.  
God save the queen.    

TO THE RIGHT MIGHTY AND EXCELLENT princess ELIZABETH BY THE GRACE OF GOD queen of England, france, and Irland, Defender of the faith.  
having written a confutation of a book entitled An apology of the church of England, right excellent princess and my sovereign lady, for sundry causes I haue ben moved of the same to make a present unto your most excellent majesty. First, whereas that book containeth many great errors concerning the necessary doctrine of faith, beside diverse untruths and slanders touching sundry estates and persons, to no small dishonour of our country and offence of godly and honest hartes: the same being both commonly preached in your realm and to the whole world set forth under the name of the church of England: it seemed to me convenient, the confutation thereof be offered to that parsonage, to whom God hath given the rule and government of England. Next, your learning and wisedom being such as the world knoweth, I am persuaded, that my travail shal be well vnderstanded, and therfore right so accepted. again, your clemency being nolesse tried in dede, then by public famed to your great honour reported: there is no cause, why the greatness of your estate ought to fear the least of your loving subiectes to aduenter so wholesome and so necessary an enterprise. Furthermore, your good inclination inwards the ancient and catholic religion, which the authors of that apology with an odious term do call papistry, encourageth me not a little unto your majesty to offer this gift and service. Of which your good inclination,( that I seem not to flatter) these both to me and to others appear most evident arguments. Your constant bearing and upholding of the banner and ensign of our redemption( the Image I mean of Christ crucified) against the enemies of his cross: Your princely word commaunding a preacher, that opened his lewd mouth against the reverent use of the cross in your private chapel, to retire from that ungodly digression unto his text of holy scripture: Your well vnderstanded liking of the soberest preachers, both always heretofore, and specially on good friday last openly by word of thankes declared, when one of a more temperate nature then the rest, in his sermon before your majesty confessed the real presence: Your gracious permission unto your whole people to see, to hear, to haue, and to red the defences, and proofs of the catholic faith against the unequal petitions of the contrary part: Your earnest zeal and travail to bring( if it might be) those disordered ministers unto some order of decent apparel, which yet they want the reason tapply themselves unto. To conclude, your advised stay from hasty and sharp persecution, your quiet bearing of your sword within the scabbard, being so lowdly cried vpon of hote preachers to draw it forth, the keeping of your princely hands pure and unspotted, having ben so often and so earnestly solicited with blood to haue imbrued the same.  
These causes and arguments haue moved me to dedicate this book unto your majesty. Neither haue I only herewith ben moved thus to do, but also very many others your loving and faithful subiectes ar with the same provoked to conceive comfort and hope of a better estate for matters of religion to be sene in the church of England. For they trust that God who hath thus begun, will happily bring all to good end, and that, whereas he hath hitherto stayed your majesty in this moderation which we see, and holden back your princely hands from th'use of your sworde against those of your subiectes, who stand in profession of the ancient and thuniuersall faith of all Christendom ( from which no terror of sworde can remove them): he will at length lead your majesty to a deep consideration of these weighty matters touching theuerlasting health of mans soul, and with his holy spirit frame in you such firm persuasion and conscience, as by no colour of eloquence, or pretence of scripture by any of these how preachers used, you shall be induced to believe that mutation of faith and religion may in any wise be admitted, sith that the church hath not erred, nor lacked the holy ghost the spirit of truth, these nine hundred yeres past according to Christes promise, and to theffect of his prayer made to his father for that behalf. This when they call to mind, which they do very often, they ar provoked to love you, to thank God of you, and to pray for you, that always you give ear to his secret motions, and employ such rare and singular gifts, as he hath most abundantly given you, to his honour, to the defence of the catholic faith, to the maintenance of his church, to preferment of virtue, correction of 'vice, suppression of errors and heresies.  
Now if your majesty will vouchsafe to red this Confutation, you shall see the crafty and untrue dealings of those who call themselves gospelers, disclosed, their chief grounds ouerthrowen, their best proofs disproved, their manifest lies detected, their sundry errors confuted, the truth declared, and the partes of that doctrine proved true, which the holy ghost hath taught and continewed in the church these nine hundred yeres, which the authors of the apology condemn for a time of blindness, ignorance, superstition, and idolatry, for a time in which( as they say) the gospel failed, the light of Gods word was put out, the fonteines of the water of life were quiter dried up. In which Confutation albeit much less is said( I grant) unto every point, then might be said by men of greater learning, and much less also then myself could say in a larger volume with longer time: yet enough( I am assured) shall be found therein to prove them deceived and deceivers, false teachers, liars, backebiters, and slanderers. So that, if in so small a book as that is, they shal be found to haue uttered no small number of errors, lies, and slanders: your excellent wisedom may thereof judge, what store of such stuff is like to be found in the whole lump of their how divinity.  
In this doing if I shall seem to any over bold and presumptuous, thexamples of good men may serve for mine excuse, folowing herein the steps of sundry learned and holy fathers, that in this path haue trod me the trace, whose books to their study, or pen and yncke to their paper, I wish myself were worthy to bear after them. For it is no new thing most gracious sovereign, learned men to dedicate their writinges to Princes and great estates. And chambermaids it were easy to name many of the primitive church, as the blessed martyr S. justine, Apollinaris, Apollonius, Quadratus, Aristides and others, that gave their books written in defence of our Christian faith to the roman Emperours, and likewise sundry others, who dedicated their defences of the catholic faith against the Arians to other Princes: those passed over with silence, here the rehearsal of two, who presented their books to noble queens, is most convenient to my purpose. cyril that famous learned bishop of Alexandria, dedicated a book, which he had written of the catholic faith, specially against the heresy of Nestorius, to queens, that is to say, to the wife and sisters of Theodosius the younger, Emperour. Atticus bishop of Constantinople, wrote a book to the noble christian queens the daughters of Arcadius the Emperour, in which he impugned the heresy also of Nestorius. Now if those learned and holy fathers offered their books written in defence of Christian faith against paynims and against heretics to roman Princes, to christian kings, and also to noble queens: what reason can be pretended, why I should not offer my book containing a defence of the same faith against errors and heresies, to your majesty being a princess of so good inclination, of so tried and famous clemency, and otherwise of most noble and princely disposition?  
Yea though no other reason ne argument to take this enterprise moved me, to whom may the subject so duly dedicate his labours, as to his sovereign dere lady and Prince? Or where should truth almost smothered and oppressed seek succour and defence, but under the name and protection of such, as through Gods dispensation by gift of singular witte be invited, and as it were led by the hand to understand it, by rare goodness of nature to love it, by sufficient habilitie to defend it?  
Accept therfore most gracious princess I humbly prostrate beseech your excellent majesty, these my rude labours in favourable part, and give thē thestimation that the truth of the cause, that my faithful duty, that my serviceable hart to your majesty, and not that the simplo utterance and small learning of the work deserveth. Also unto the singular goodness of God, whose great providence that ruleth all, hath appointed your majesty to govern in the world at this time, reserve and yield continually( as you haue done) your hart, your ears, your eyes ever open and free, to understand, to hear, and to see his truth, And as an usury for your rare and singular gifts received at his hand, restore and bring unto him( for his love I as●e it) but the applying and bending of your singular wisedom and deep consideration unto the roote and ground, from whence these strange doctrines grewe, unto the practise and means with which they be maintained and supported, unto the fruit and success that every where they hatch and bring forth: and by this little said by me, consider with all, what and how much might be said against every part of it. And finding the roote nought else but covetousness, ambition, malice, and carnal liberty, the shores and pillars that uphold it, but lies and falsehood, begging and crafty arguments, the fruits none other but first, ruin and spoil, thē sedition and rebellion where it is resisted, and therewith furthermore robbery, sacrilege, and horrible murder, then finally such confusion of opinions and infinite variety of doctrines, as breedeth in the people a more paganism, heathenish looseness, and a very Epicurian atheism, where it is let run: And perceiving with all,( as I doubt not but you shall) how little true reason, substantial learning, or effectual argument there is to prove the particulars of it, the body and substance of these doctrines being found to be but such a lump of untruths in dede, as your majesties great iudgement attending it can not but perceive: then measure unto it the just and due credite that it deserveth. And as your policy shal permit it, first bridle it as you may, then as opportunity may be taken, reform and roote it out, as the canker, that corrupteth undoubtedly the mindes of all states and degrees more or less, at one time or other, as that, which excluding all fear to offend, and conscience to sin, induceth all boldness and liberty to live after our liking, as that, which disioynteth al policy and right government, as that, which the wisedom of no realm in account having tried, can now allow to be continewed: to conclude, as that, which hath in dede no right reason to maintain it, or any maner of truth either to bear the whole generally, or to defend the partes particularly. Now to your clemency I appeal for pardon in this case, if in this boldness I pass that becometh my person. But my meaning is as good, as faithful, and as dutiful, as I am bound, regarding chiefly( God is my record) next unto the truth of the cause, your majesties honour and security in the place and seat that God hath called you unto. Sure I am, that as your majesty shall herein duly serve and please God according to your calling, by procuring to your power peace and concord to his church long travailed and vexed: so shall you of the world procure to yourself thankes and famed immortal, by reducing your people now straggled in hartes by difference of doctrines unto an unity of minds in the bonde of peace. So shall you draw in one line with al christen Princes that be in Europe at this day of any name or regard, according to the presidents and examples of al your noble progenitors. So shal you join yourself to them, and be annombred among them, as your ancestors were. So shal you with Gods grace be assured of their undoubted amity and friendship in all cases requisite. Briefly so shal by your means the wonted obedience and reverent due fear of all subiectes toward their Soueraignes be revived, knowledge the world findeth already great want, and shortly more shall find to the great grief of all good men, if God of his mercy move not your hart,( which resteth in his hands) to consider this matter in time. Which that your majesty may fortunately do, with long life, all honour, felicity and prosperous success, according to my bound duty most earnestly I shal not cease to pray.  
Your majesties most faithful subject and bound orator Thomas Harding.   

TO THE READER.  
behold Reader, here thou hast a Confutation of the apology of the Church of England. 
things chiefly to be known of the Reader in this Confutation.  Which what hath moved me to writ, what hath ben mine intent therein, what end I haue looked for, what maner of writing and what order in the whole treatise I haue used, all this if thou desire to know: thus it is. 
What moved ●hauthor to writ.  To take this enterprise vpon me, I haue ben provoked by certain humane intisementes I confess: but the same moved me little. To say the trouth, the zeal of God it is, that chiefly hath driven me to take the pen in hand, and I trust his good spirit hath directed the same. verily that so it might be, my prayer hath not wanted. Whether this zeal hath ben according to knowledge( without which it might be myslyked) or otherwise: I offer it to be tried by such means as trial may be made. 
trial of skillefull zeal.  Let both writings be laid in balance, first, so much as concerneth the doctrine of faith, to be weighed with the receipt of the general and ancient custom of the people of God, which in such case by the mind of saint Augustine is to be taken for a lawe, also of the old learned fathers, of approved councils, and specially of the holy scriptures, so as the catholic church hath ever vnderstanded them, 
Esai. 59. John. 14.  to whom both the word of God and the spirit of God teacher and prompter of all truth is assuredly promised. Next, so much as concerneth manners, and acts of men worthy of praise or reproof, by the authors of the apology mentioned, let all be tried by the receipt of true histories. Thirdly, what things they allege as out of the fathers, councils, chroniclers, canonists, and school men: for trial of the truth I refer all to due examination of books, out of which each thing is alleged. This done, if they shall be found to haue used false receipt, and appear over light in the balance, as neither having the just poys of the scriptures, councils, fathers, or custom for their doctrine of faith, nor of histories for manners and acts by them spoken of, nor of their other allegations brought for proof of other things: I doubt not but in the iudgement of all godly and wise men my zeal shall seem right and just, as not being altogether besides knowledge.  

What is here promised.  But what if it be evidently shewed, that these men haue not only failed in proof of things they took in hand to prove, but also haue done contrary to reason, shamefastness, and common honesty, and haue stuffed their book with shameless lies in general, with scoffs, railinges, and slanders touching both the persons of certain special men, and states and degrees in common, with false doctrines, errors, and heresies touching the scriptures, with profane contempt touching the most holy sacramentes, with heinous blasphemy touching God himself? In this case I trust my zeal shall not only be acquitted of all blame, but also shal excuse the silence of others of my calling, who at length should grievously haue ben accused, if none for love of truth had brought to light those things, which so much it standeth men vpon in these perilous times to understand. That in this confutation this much is shewed and proved to the utter discredit of the apology, thyself wilt so judge Reader, if thou vouchsafe advisedly to red it over.  
mine intent hath ben only to show the truth, 
Intent.  and to remove men from the manifold and crafty deceit of lying, which is the duty partly of every man, so far as the order of charity reacheth, 
Eccl. 17.  and so far as by God to each one charge of his neighbour is committed: but specially of those who haue bestowed their time in study to thende to teach others the truth, and by lawful calling haue ben appointed thereunto.  
The end I look for of all my labour is, 
end.  that the heresies being confuted, lies detected, slanders wiped away, wherewith the apology is farced: the catholic faith which in these dayes is so much impugned, may be defended, the truth embraced, the church duly regarded, that of our dere country men, they which through gods grace stand, by reading this confutation may be animated to keep their standing, they which stomble and slide, may finde wherewith to stay them, they which be fallen, may be admonished how to rise again, 
2. Tim. 2.  and recover themselves from the snares of the devill, of whom they are holden captive at his will.  
The manner of writing which I haue here used, 
Manner of writing.  in comparison of our aduersaries is sober, soft, and gentle, yet vehementer, rougher, and sharper, then for my wont and nature: but in respect of their heat, bitterness, and railing, as many tell me, over cold, sweet, and mild. How so ever it shall seem to thee Reader, herein I haue done as I thought best. Well I am assured I haue not gone far from the steps of the most praised ancient fathers, of whom who haue been commended most for the spirit of meekness, the same, though toward other offenders haue shewed themselves like mild Moyses, yet having to do with heretics, commonly haue demeaned themselves like earnest Elias. If liars should be entreated in like sort as true reporters, slanderers and backebyters, as faithful friends, heretics, as catholics, Apostates, as steadfast christians, blasphemers, as saints: truth should be injured, wickedness flattered, virtue misprised. Of whom the truth was impugned or resisted with malice, them little spared either the prophetes, or the Apostles, or Christ himself.  

Order.  The order that I thought good to keep is this. First,( as thou mayst here see) I haue put the words of the apology as I found them translated, sometimes by whole paragraphs, sometimes by mo, sometimes by fewer and brief sentences, according to the dependence or weight of the matter. Then followeth my confutation longer or shorter, according to the thing confuted. Here shalt thou find the apology whole, sentence for sentence, word for word. That I might seem to deal uprightly, I would leave out nothing. And least it should be laid to me, that I had pyked out certain points to refel, and left sundry other untouched, as acknowledged, and confessed for good and true: avoiding thobiection of partial dealing, and of approving that which is to be condemned: making their book no worse then it is, I haue here set forth, and after my manner confuted the whole, not so as I would each sentence to be numbered, but rather to be weighed. In weight I trust none shal be found vnrefelled, though in number some few for lack of pith be either slightly touched, or quiter past over, as unworthy of time and labour bestowed about them.  
All this haue I done so briefly as I could, yet hath my book grown to a far more largeness, then I would. For brevities sake many points I haue with few words treated, which fully to be discussed, would by themselves require large treatises. But what should I do? verily this apology is such a piece of work, as for every heresy, every slander, every lie, briefly every false point and part of it to be fully and thoroughly confuted and answered, and the contrary truth to be declared and set forth: it would require many great volumes, and a whole mans life, wherein for my part beside the time of printing, I haue not bestowed fully three quarters of a year. The more thy gentleness ought to bear with me, if every point be not found answerable to thy expectation.  
The author of the apology, 
The stuff of the apology.  if it were made by any one, and not by many heads, as it is most likely: what so ever he could find in the books of those late writers, who haue divided themselves from the obedience of the catholic church, either concerning doctrine or manners written against the catholic faith, which they call papistry, against the church, against the Bishops of Rome, against the whole clergy: the same hath he raled together, and thrust it into the apology. That there was never book made, which in so little rome contained so great a heap of lies, errors, heresies, taunts, scoffs, upbraidings, slanders, rancours, and blasphemies. Such is the book, and for such it is esteemed out of England of all wise and learned men. And few haue yet ben sound, which could find in their hartes to put the pēne to paper against it, not for that they could not, or durst not, but for that they liked not to bestow their study in such argument, as that, which they abhor for the multitude of shameless lies, for the vain and light scoffs, for the malicious slaunderinges of men by name, for the unhonest disclosing of filthy matters, which chased ears would be loth to hear, for the horriblenes of heresies, and for such other loathsome things sauering altogether of the spirit of Satan.  

schoolmasters against the apology.  Two onely I hear of that haue written against it, the one in latin, a learned Spaniard, bishop in the kingdom of Naples, the other an Italian, in the Italian tongue. Both books are stayed from print and setting abroad as it is thought, in regard of our country. Whose honour should be over much touched, if the whole church of the realm were so openly charged with thapprouing of such a lying, undiscrete, unreasonable, slanderous and ungodly writing. For which cause myself thought it more convenient, 
For what cause this Confutation was written in English rather then in latin.  to writ this Confutation in english, then in latin, that so both falsehood might be refeled, and truth defended, and also that our domestical faults might be considered to amendment within the banks of England, and not by the common tongue blown abroad through all Christendom, to the contempt and shane of our country.  
Whereas a certain learned man of our own country, one of good account, in his answer to the epistle which Hieronymus Osorius of godly zeal, with due modesty, ripe discretion, and singular eloquence wrote to the queens majesty, referreth that famous man for proof and commendation of the Religion of our country, and for the whole realms uniform agreeing in the same, to the apology set forth( as he saith) by the church of England openly to the eyes of all the world, as a common and an assured pledge of our Religion, and there eggingly requireth him to refel it, if he be able, affirming very prejudicially that neither he, nor any other of his side is able,( whereby he excludeth all catholic men be they never so well learned): I fear me to wise men that will seem rather of courage a stout show, then of truth a substantial proof. Neither in my iudgement the same becometh his person and his sundry virtues, how so ever it becometh so feeble a cause to be set forth with a lusty brauarie of words. As for all others besides Osorius, whether any be able to refel it or no, let time try. But how so ever that famous Bishop be either yet able, or shall at any time be willing, thou hast here gentle Reader, in the mean time a confutation of that book, and the thing done, which hath been so stoutly affirmed, no man of Osorius side, that is to say, none that is catholic, is able to do, and that not by a Portugall of which country Osorius is, but by one of thine own country. Of my ableness what shall I say? Therof myself holding silence, the thing speaketh. Truly I aclowledge it to be very small. And for that I do so aclowledge, I thank God nolesse, then for the measure thereof itself, which he hath given to me, I haue not given to myself. 
The good will of thauthor.  And all this hast thou with so good a will Reader, to raise thee up that art fallen, to stay thee that art wavering, to move thee to be steadfast, that standest, briefly to comfort thee, and by all means to do thee good, what case, mind, or affection so ever thou findest thyself in: as charity to my neighbour, love to my country, duty to God requireth.  

The conditions of a confutation.  Whiles thou readest this treatise, remember thou readest a Confutation, which is not an vtterrance made by the prime devise of the mind for declaration and proof of any thing, wherein wit hath liberty to discourse: but an answer refelling what an other hath before affirmed. wherein invention is straighted, and true reasons be not by order of such writing so much propounded for confirmation of the truth, as false reasons dissolved for defence of the truth, and for discomfeiture of falsehood, wherein the adversary is answered, not opposed, controlled, not provoked, resisted, not invaded, and as it were, his blows broken, his person not first assaulted. Wherefore marvell less, if thou find not so ample and large discourses in proof of some points, in which thou longest to be resolved. I thought best to follow the order of writing that a confutation requireth. And although I writ against them, who call their book a defence,( for so the greek word signifieth) and I therfore name them defenders: yet in respect of my purpose, which is to defend the truth, I take myself in dede for the defendant, them for the challengers. Neither for all this, if thou mark well what is here said, shalt thou find onely falsehood disproved, but also in most points of faith the truth sufficiently( and so far as the nature of a confutation beareth) declared and proved.  
If thou desire thoroughly to understand the whole process, before thou read my words, 
Instructions for the better understanding of this Confutation.  peruse the words of the apology, as they are placed in order. Then mayest thou judge better of both, and see whereabout I go. else thou mayest happen to want in me order, iudgement, coherence, disposition, comeliness, and other graces requisite to an orderly talk. If thou fall vpon any one thing often times repeated, and therefore feel the same loathsome: blame not me, finding fault therwith no less then thyself, but him that penned the apology, who driveth me thereunto, and forceth me, as it were, with one cloth oftentimes to wipe a mattering sore, specially having taken vpon me to refele every part of it.  
The whole treatise I haue divided into six partes, 
division of the whole treatise in to six partes.  as by diligent view I perceived their book to treat six principal points. They are longer or shorter, equality of proportion not curiously observed, after the rate of the apology. And because distinction giveth light to the matter treated, and diminisheth the tediousness of the reader: every parte is divided into chapters.  

The argument of every part briefly touched.  
1  In the first parte, I confute their rhetorical insinuation containing a common place, that truth is and hath ben always persecuted, whereby they endeavour to procure credite to their writing. 
2  In the second parte, I show the untruth of their belief, and prove the catholic faith by them impugned. 
3  In the third parte, I prove great controversies and dissensions in matters of weight to be among the gospelers, which they deny. And those disagreeinges or rather diversities, which they be not ashamed to lay to the catholics, I declare either to be none at all, or such as be of no force or importance in respect of faith. 
4  In the fourth parte, I confute their shameless lies, and falsifyinges of histories, and slaunderinges of men by name, defending truth and honesty. 
5  In the fifth parte, I refel what they can bring for that the church may err, and what they allege out of sundry doctors, councils, and late writers against the catholic church. 
6  In the sixth part, I defend the general councils, and specially that of late holden at Trent, and show how they belie the fathers there assembled, as well for many other things, as for denying, that themselves and their fellow gospelers could haue any liberty or be permitted to come thither, and to treat among them about matters of faith, where the abbridgement of the safe conducts for the same purpose granted forth and confirmed, is recorded. Lastly, for commodity as well of my utterance, as of thy understanding, where neither he that penned the book, who doubtless is the chief author of it, who so ever he be, nor they that haue holp him with their notes, counsels, and devises, haue put to their names, the title being an apology, which is a greek word and signifieth defence in english: through this whole confutation, having cause sundry times to name them, I haue thought good to call the one Defender, the others, Defenders.   

ET Priuati& Brabantici Regiae Maiestatis Consilij diplomate cautum est, ne quis proximis sex annis Confutationem Apologiae Ecclesiae Anglicanae Thoma Hardingo Doctore Theologo auctore anglicè scriptam, intrà Burgundicae ditionis limits imprimat, alibiue impressam diuendat, nisi cvi ipse author eius rei copiam fecerit. Si quis contrà fecerit, is sciat à mulcta se in Diplomate contenta non fore immunem.  
Datum Bruxellae. 12. Aprilis. Anno. 1565. Subsig. Mesdach. Facuwes.   

A CONFVTATION OF THE apology OF THE church OF ENGLAND.  

THE FIRST PART.  
AN apology or aunswere in defence of the church of England, 
The title of the apology.  with a brief and plain declaration of the true religion professed and used in the same.  
INTENDING to confute the apology of the church of England, 
Confutation.  I think to help the readers understanding, if briefly at the beginning I show what apology signifieth, what be the circumstances in such kind of writ to be considered, what is the state and case of this present matter, how it is treated, and what is thende of my purpose. Apologia is a greek word, and signifieth defence, 
What is signified by apology.  not with arms, but with reason, answer in defence, excuse, purgation or clearing of that one is charged with. In every apology or excuse, three things in consideration meet together. The plaintiff or accuser, the defendant, the crime objected. Touching the state of this matter, the catholics and all good men complain and accuse. the new clergy of England answereth in defence. the thing objected is schism, heresy, and breach of unity. Now the manner of thaccused is, for their defence either to deny the thing that is objected, or confessing the thing, to uphold the same in respect of some circumstance. 
Gen. 34.  As Simeon and levi Iacobs sons burdened by their father for killing of Sichem and Hemor, confessed the fact, but defended it as lawfully done, because through rape they had abused their sister Dina like an harlot. But these Defenders beside custom and reason, both deny the crime which is objected, and also confess the crime. They deny it in word, and confess it both in word and dede. For they say they be not heretics neschismatikes, and yet confess their departing from the church, for that it erreth in faith. Which to maintain stubbornly, because it is contrary to Christes express promises in the gospel, 
Matth. 16.&. 28. joan. 14.  beside the schism, is heinous heresy. As for me, if I refelle the objections here by this new English church made against the old catholic church, if I prove the catholic doctrine true, their private opinions false, if I show the crimes by them to the catholic clergy imputed for the more part to be untrue, and so confute then whole defence: it is that I haue purposed to do, that, which shalbe good and profitable for many by them deceived, that, wherein I shall discharge my conscience before God. By whose help I hope to bring to good end, that only to his honour I haue begun.  

The Defenders likened to Esopes ass.  Whereas they take vpon them the name of the church of England, setting forth thereby a face of authority, they do much like the ass that esop telleth of, which, to make the beasts afraid, had put on him a Lions skin, and therwith ietted abroad terribly. For as the Lions skin was but lapped about him, and grew not to his body: so they being in dede no lively members nor part of the church, cover themselves under the title and name of the church, 
The cannon-shot of all heretics.  the rather to beguile the simplo. And verily herein they follow the wont of all heretics. For never was there any sect of heretics hitherto, which hath not claimed to be accounted and called the church. 
heretics likened to Apes. The name and reputation of the church challenged by heretics. In epist. ad Iubaianum de hereticis baptizandis. De prascript. har.  For which cause of certain ancient fathers they haue ben likened to apes, whose property is, though they be apes, yet to counterfeit men, and to covet to seem men. Nouatianus as saith S. Cyprian, after the manner of apes, would challenge to himself the authority of the catholic church. And where as himself was not in the church, but contrariwise a rebel against the church, took vpon him to affirm, that all other were heretics, and presumed to uphold, the church was on his side. Irenaeus and Tertullian who were before him, writ, that heretics made so much ado to persuade, that the church was among themselves only, that they feared not to call the right believing and catholic church, heretical and schismatical. 
Contrà constantium.  S. Hilary declaring how patiently he demeaned himself toward the Arians his enemies, by whom he was banished, writeth, that in five yeares space, whiles he lived in banishment, he never spake nor wrote evil word against them, which falsely said themselves to be the church of Christ, and were the synagogue of Antichrist. The Donatistes, 
Aug. contra epist. Parmen. Lib. 2. ca. 1  against whom S. Augustine wrote much, said, that the christianity was quiter lost and gone out of so many nations that be in the world, and remained only in afric, and that the church was only there. 
Bernard. in cant. Serm. 66. Apostolici.  In S. Bernardes time also the heretics who would be called Apostolikes as they of our time call themselves gospelers, said that they were the church.  
But what mean all heretics( may we judge) by coveting so much to be sene that which they are not? 
What mean heretics by challenging unto them the name and estimation of the church  Forsooth they mean none other thing, then their father the devill meaneth, when he goeth about to beguile man. For then what doth he? useth he not this policy, to change his owggly hew, and put himself in goodly shape of an angel of light? For he is not unwitting, that if he shewed himself in his own for me, such as he is, that every one would fly from him, 
2. Cor. 11.  and none lightly would be deceived by him. 
The estimation and authority of the church.  heretics do the like. Although they hate the church never so deadly, yet to haue the more opportunity to hurt it, pretend themselves to be of the church. For they be not ignorant, how great the authority of the church is. Of whose gouernours Christ said, 
Lucae. 10.  He that heareth you, heareth me, and he that despiseth you, despiseth me. 
Mat. 18.  And again, Tell the church. They consider in what credite the church is with all Christen people, how they stay themselves by it, 
1. Tim. 3.  as being the pillar and ground of the truth, how they love her, even as their common mother, how they honour it, 
Ephes. 1.  as the body and fullness of Christ, as the spouse of Christ through faith, 
Osea. 2.  according to that is written, I will despouse thee to me in faith. As the true zion, which our lord hath chosen to be his habitation, 
Psal. 1●1.  and his resting place for ever. As the safe ark to keep us from drowning in the dangerous seas of this world, out of which nolesse then once out of the ark of Noe, 
Gen. 7. The church hath always Christ, the holy ghost, the truth, the word of god, and the right understanding of it. ergo it neuererreth. Mat. ult. joan. 14. Esa. 59.  is no salvation. again they know the church must needs be greatly esteemed among all the godly, for the singular promises Christ hath made to it, that he would be with it all dayes to the end of the world. That he would pray to his father for the holy ghost to be given to it, the spirit of truth to remain with it for ever. Yea for that God himself promised to it of old, that neither the spirit of his eternal son, nor his words which he put in his mouth, should depart from the mouth of the church for ever. And therefore they be persuaded, that the church hath not only Gods word, but also the true sense of the word, for so much as it hath the spirit of God, that teacheth it the right understanding of the same. Now the heretics knowing all this, foreseeing that unless they profess the name of the church, their doctrine should be shunned, and themselves of al sorts abhorred: will in any wise be sene members of this body, and challenge unto them the name of the church, as far forth as the catholics and right believers do. 
In con. ment. in epist. ad Tit. cap. 3.  And as they impugn the lawe by the words of the lawe, as S. Ambrose saith: so to overthrow the church, they presume to take unto them the name of the church.  
But what do heretics when they are urged and wroonge, when by force of arguments they are straighted and as it were driven to the wall? when it is plainly proved to their face, which is sone done, that they be not in nor of the church, specially being of heresy openly denounced, and by just excommunication cut of from the church? 
The wonte of the gospelers being excommunicate out of the church  In this case the practise of the gospelers is utterly to set the church at nought, and with a hote raging spirit to defy it, and to say that themselves be the catholic church, and that the catholics be the papistical church, the church of Antichrist, the whore of Babylon, a den of theeues, and, I can not tell what. And this ancient practise of all heretics, these Defenders show in their apology. This much concerning the title of their book. Now let us hear, what they say in the beginning.  
IT HATH ben an old complaint, 
apology.  even from the first time of the Patriarks and Prophetes, and confirmed by the writinges and testimonies of every age, that the Truth wandereth here and there as a stranger in the world, 
tertul. in Apologetico.  and doth readily finde enemies and slanderers amongst those that grow her not. Albeit perchance this may seem unto some a thing hard to bee believed, I mean to such as haue scante well and narowly taken heed thereunto, specially seing all mankind of natures very motion without a teacher doth coueite the truth of their own accord: and seeing our saviour christ himself, when he was on earth would be called the truth as by a name most fit to express all his divine poure: yet we, which haue been exercised in the holy scriptures and which haue both red and seen what hath happened to all godly men commonly at all times, what to the Prophets, to the Apostles, to the holy Martyres, and what to christ himself, with what rebukes, settlings and dispightes they were continually vexed whyles they here lived, and that onely for the truths sake: we( I say) do see, that this is not only no new thing or hard to be believed, but that it is a thing already received and commonly used from age to age. Nay truly, this might seem much rather a marvel and beyond all belief, yf the divell, 
John. 8.  who is the Father of lies and enemy to all truth, would now upon a sudden change his nature, and hope that truth might otherwise be suppressed, then by belyenge yt: Or that he would begin to establish his own kingdom by using now any other practices, then the same which he hath ever used from the beginning. For since any mans remembrance, we canneskante find one time, either when Religion did first grow, or when it was settled, or when it did a fresh spring up again, wherein truth and innocency were not by all vnworthy means and most dispitfully entreated. doubtless the devil well seeth, that so long as truth is in good sauety, himself cannot be safe, nor yet maintain his own estate.  
For lettinge pass the ancient patriarkes and Prophetes, who as we said, had no parte of their life free from contumelies and slanders. We grow there were certain in times past, which said and commonly preached, that the old ancient Iewes( of whom we make no doubt but they wer the worshippers of the onely and true God) did worship either a sowe or an ass in Gods steede, 
Cornel. Tactius.  and that all the same Religion was nothing else, but a sacrilege and a plain contempt of all godliness. We know also that the son of God, our saviour Iesu christ, when he taught the truth, was counted a juggler and an enchanter, 
Mar. 11.  a Sammaritan, beelzeebub, a deceiver of the people, a dronkard, and a Glutton. again, who wotteth not what woordes were spoken against saint paul the most earnest and vehement preacher and maintainour of the truth? sometime that he was a seditious and busy man, a raiser of tumults, a causer of rebellion: sometime again that he was an heretic, sometime that he was mad: sometime that onely vpon strife and stomach he was both a blasphemer of Gods draw, and a despiser of the Fathers ordinances. Further who knoweth not how saint Stephan after he had thoroughly and sincerely embraced the truth, and began franklye and stoutly to preach and set forth the same as he ought to do, was immediately called to aunswere for his life, as one that had wickedly uttered disdainful and heinous words against the draw, against Moyses, against the Temple, and against God? Or who is ignorant that in times past there werre some which reproved the holy Scriptures of falsehood, saying they contained things both contrary and quiter one against an other: and how that the Apostles of christ did severally disagree betwixt themselves, 
martion ex Tertul. Aclius è Lactau●io.  and that S. paul did vary from them all? And not to make rehearsal of al, for that were an endless labour: who knoweth not afterwhat sort our Fathers were railed vpon in times pass, which first began to acknowledge and profess the name of christ, 
Euse. li. 5. cap. 11. tertul. in Apologe. 3  how they made private conspiracies, devised secret councils against the common welth,& to that end made early and privy meetings in the dark, killed young babes, fed themselves with mens flesh, and like savage and brute beasts, 
Idem. 1.2.3.&. 7.8.9.  didde drink their blood? In conclusion, how that after they had put out candles, they committed adultery between themselves, and without regard wrought incest one with an other, that brethren lay with their sisters, sons with their Mothers, without any reverence of nature or kin, without shane, without difference: and that they wer wicked men without all care of Religion, and without any opinion of God, being the very enemies of mankind, vnworthy to be suffered in the worlde, and vnworthie of life?  
All these things wer spoken in those daies against the people of God, against Christ Iesu, against Paul, against Stephan, and against all them whosoever they were, which at the first beginning embraced the truth of the Gospel, and were contented to be called by the name of Christians: which was then an hateful name among the common people. And although the things which they said, 
tertul. in apollo. cap. 3.  wer not true, yet the devil thought it should be sufficient for him, yf at the least he could bring it so to pass, as they might bee believed for true: and that the Christians might bee brought into a common hatred of every body, and haue their death and destruction sought of all sorts. Here vpon Kings and Princes being led then by such persuasions, killed all the Prophetes of God, lettinge none escape: Esai with a sawe, jeremy with stones, daniel with lions, Amos with an iron bar, paul with the sword, and Christ vpon the cross, and condemned all Christians to imprisonments, to torments, to the pikes, to be throwne down headlong from rocks and stepe places, to be cast to wild beasts and to be burnt, 
Suetoni. in tranquil. in Nerone.  and made great fires of their quick bodies, for the only purpose to give light by night, and for a very scorn and mockinge stock: and didde count them no better then the vilest filth, thofscouringes and laughing games of the whole worlde. Thus( as ye see) haue the Authors and professors of the truth ever ben entreated.  

THE FIRST CHAPTER.  
Who would not think these Defenders were true men, 
Confutation.  that in the beginning of their apology speak so much of truth? Yet who knoweth not, that often times evil meaning is hid under good words? Who hath not heard that filthy queens in time and place use the honest talk of chased matrons? The these commendeth just dealings, and many times sheweth a stomach against false harlots no man more. Among all none pretend truth in words so much as heretics. Whose guile because it is more perilous, the more it ought to be taken heed of. 
2. Cor. 11.  I fear me( saith S. Paul to the Corinthians) lest as the serpent beguiled eve by his subtlety, so your wits be corrupted and fallen away from that plainness which is in Christ. 
The devil, the world, the flesh, the heretic, whereby do they deceive vs. Matth. 7.  The Apostle feared because of the crafty Iewes, who the rather to deceive, mingled scripture with their own traditions, and truth with falsehood. The devill leadeth man to evil by promise of good, the world by show of that which seemeth faire, the flesh by sense of vain pleasure. So bringeth the heretic his hearer to error in faith by colour and pretence of truth. Not every one that saith Lord Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, saith Christ, nor all they that had so often in their mouths the temple of our Lord, 
Ierem. 7.  the temple of our Lord, honoured our Lord like true servants in the temple. So neither be these men found true in points of faith, that speak so much of truth, that boast so much of the gospel, that rattle nothing but scriptures. They are rather much like to the Maniches, 
De utilit. credend. ad Honoratum, lib. 1. cap. 1. Confess. li. 5. cap. 6.  who promised their hearers to discuss and set forth the truth most evidently unto them, and to deliver them from all maner of error. By which fair promises S. Augustin was alured to be a diligent scholar of theirs for the space of nine yeres. Because it standeth us much vpon to beware of them, neither that can we do, except we know them, forasmuch as they come unto us lapped in shepeskinnes, and be ravening wolves: their deceit being secret, Christ gave us a lesson how to discern them. By their fruits ye shall know them, 
Matth. 7.  saith he. What be the fruits of their acts and works, the world seeth, feeleth and lamenteth. what is the fruit of their learning, here is propounded. which I trust so to discuss, as to any man of iudgement, it shal appear no more to be believed, then their works are to be praised. And now to you sirs.  
even in the beginning and as I may say in the forehead of your apology, whiles I examine it diligently, 
Two unseemly faults found in the beginning of the apology.  I find two fowle faults, the one in your rhetoric, the other in your logic. By which two faults both the vnskill of your secretary, and the weakness of your matter may be espied, as the ass I spake of right now was by his two ears staring out under the lions skin. Of your divinity I say little now, 
The Defenders d uinitie in gross.  more hereafter, which is nothing else in gross, but a lump of lies, errors, and heresies.  
First touching your rhetoric, 
Their fault in rhetoric  where as there be many sorts of faulty proemes or beginnings mentioned by the learned authors treating of the precepts and rules of rhetoric: one of the word is that, which is such as the adversary may use. Which by them is called Exordium commune. 
Exordium commune.  That is to wit, such a beginning, as will serve the defendant nolesse then the plaintiff, or contrariwise. Of that sort is the beginning of your apology. For declaring at large that truth hath ever ben persecuted, what saith it therein( the faults amended) that we may not say the same? And so is it common to us both. If I were one of your side, I should wish, ye had not ben so far overseen in the beginnings, specially sith that a faultly proeme may be sene as a scared face, 
Institut, orator. lib. 4. cap. 1.  saieth Quintilian, and that shipmaister is accounted very bad, who at the setting out of the haven driveth the ship on the rocks. Concerning the matter itself ye treat in your proeme, although we grant theffect of it, and that truth is persecuted: yet we mislike in you, that alleging Tertullian to help your cause, 
Tertullian not truly alleged.  ye injury the Doctor by altering his words. which untrue dealing though ye use very much throuh your whole book, as it shall appear: yet were ye not wise by falsifying the first sentence so much to impayer your credite. Tertullian saith not in the report of truths complaint, 
In apologet. cap. 1.  that truth briefly findeth enemies and slanderers amongst those that know her not, but that truth sone findeth enemies inter extraneos, amongst aliens or strangers. Now the Christen catholics whom ye call papists, among whom by false surmise ye pretend the truth a be persecuted, 
catholics be not aliens in respect of the truth.  be not in respect of the truth aliens or strangers. Which as to prove is easy, so needles, for as much as yourselves in sundry places of your book reprove them for resisting the truth which they know. If, by your own confession, we know the truth, then are we not aliens to it. If we be not aliens to it, then pertaineth the saying of Tertullian nothing to vs. Thus when ye saw Tertullian would not serve your turn with his own words, ye forced him to serve you with your words, giving him as it were a new livery with your own badge, and made exchange of extranoes, with ignotos. And so by your ladies interpretation, ye report truth to find enemies amongst those that know it not. But thereby ye fall into the same inconvenience, as ye should, if ye had truly alleged the place. For confessing us to aclowledge the truth, how make ye this good in respect of us the catholics whom ye call papists, that truth is persecuted among those that know it not? 
Tertullians words truly rinsed.  For the right sense of the place, where Tertullian saith truth to be a pilgrim or stranger in the earth, and sone to find enemies among aliens: he meant by aliens no other then infidels and paynims, 
aliens. Tertullians time.  among whom Christen people then lived, and were daily persecuted. Which time was within little more then one hundred yeres after Christes death. But after that the gospel had ben sounded abroad by the Apostles and their successors through all the earth, 
Psal. 18.  after that the Emperours themselves and all the people every where had received the faith: then was the truth no more a wanderer, stranger, or pilgrim in the earth, then found the truth( to speak truly) enemies no more among aliens. For then was the earth no more earth concerning the true believers, but in respect of their outward persons, but it was the kingdom of heaven, that is to say, the church. Neither were the believing people then aliens in respect of truth, but dere friends and kinnesfolke, according to that Christ said in the gospel, 
Marc. 3.  he that doth the will of God, the same is my brother, my sister, and my mother. Wherefore ye if will now upbraid any sort for persecuting the truth with Tertullians sentence, ye must go to Turkes, Saracenes, Iewes, and paynims, where these aliantes be. For among the catholics though ye call them papists, they be not. If ye account the journey to far, keeping your former will, ye may go near home, and tel your tale to heretics, for among christen men heretics be they, among whom the truth touching faith findeth enemies, and is persecuted, so should ye spare your labour, and not go far from yourselves. Now let us see to what end ye drive this common place of the persecution of truth, which ye haue treated in your proeme with so many words vnnecessarely.  
Wherfore we ought to bear yt the more quyetlye, 
apology.  which haue taken upon us to profess the gospel of Christ, yf we for the same cause be handled after the same sort: and yf we, as our forefathers swear long a go, bee lykewyse at this day tormented and baited with railings, with spiteful dealings and with lies, and that for no desert of our own, but onely because we teach and acknowledge the truth.   

THE SECOND CHAPTER.  
O blessed followers of the Patriarkes, Prophetes, Apostles, 
Confutation.  Martyrs, and Christ himself, that suffer so much persecution in your innocency, having deserved nothing at all, and only because ye teach and aclowledge the truth. 
Their fault in logic.  But sirs by your leave how followeth this ( wherefor) of your former common place so largely treated? This is your other fowle fault, which ye make in your logic. How prove ye this argument, The truth is persecuted, and the professors of the truth haue ever ben evil treated, wherefore we ought to bear it quietly being likewise handled for the same cause? Thought ye with your long proeme of the persecution of truth so to steal away truth, and to dazzle the iudgement of your readers, as ye might now foist in such a false conclusion? 
It is not truth for which the gospelers be punished, but sedi●●ō and heresy.  Make your reason so wittily as ye can, and peruse all the subtility of your logic: ye shall never be able to conclude, that ye suffer persecution for truths sake, or that ye haue the truth. If ye make this argument,( which ye seem privily to make leaving out the minor) the professors of truth be persecuted for truths sake, we are the professors of truth, 
The argument which the Defenders make their chief ground to stand on, concludeth, not for them, so their foundation is nought.  therefore we suffer persecution for truths sake, if ye say thus: we imbarre you from your conclusion by denying your minor, which ye can never prove. And if ye reason thus,( which way also ye seem to use) the professors of truth suffer persecution, we suffer persecution, ergo we are professors of truth: we grant your minor is true, but your argument is nought. And by like reason thieves might say, True men be persecuted,( which many times we see) we are persecuted, ergo we are true men. So might all heretics say, and by that argument prove themselves right believers, wherefore until ye prove that ye succeed the Patriarkes, Prophetes, Apostles, Martyrs and Christ himself in professing the truth, boast not( as ye do) of your forefathers. For not they whom ye name in your proeme, but Huss, Wicklef, Peter bruise, Berengarius, Waldenses, Albingenses, Donatistes, Aerians, Manichees, and such the like heretics justly condemned of the church, were your forefathers. Forth ye go and say.  

apology  They cry out vpon us at this present every wheare, that we are all heretics, and haue forsaken the faith, and haue with how perswasions and wicked learning utterly dissolved the concord of the church.  
Thus we cry not out vpon you, as ye report, 
Confutation.  but the things which here ye speak, cry out vpon you. For all these things for the most part and many other as wicked as these, be true, and the same many godly catholic men say of you with great sorrow of hart, much lamenting to see them so true. But that ye haue done all these things only vpon a desire of contention and strife, as ye surmise us to charge you, that they say not, who haue well considered your preachings. For they know many things by you and the companions of your sects to haue ben done otherwise, some through pride and vain glory, some through rancour and malice, some through ambition and covetise, some through desire of fleshly pleasure. But to speak of these matters more particularly, If ye haue forsaken the faith ye were baptized in, if ye be gone from the faith which S. Eleutherius pope and martyr the first Apostle of britain preached in this land by Damianus and Fugatius within little more then one hundred yeres after Christes death, 
Damianus and Fugatius first Apostles of the Britons, Augustin{us} and Melitus of the English.  if ye refuse the faith which gregory the great that holy Pope caused to be preached to our ancestors the english nation by Augustinus, Melitus, and other holy priestes, and haue thereby dissolved the unity of the catholic church, and leave not to maintain the doctrine whereby the same unity is dissolved: all this presupposed, we see not but that this cry made vpon you is true, for then are ye heretics in dede.  
That we renew, and as it swear, fetch again from hell, 
apology.  the old and many a day condemned heresies: that we sow abroad how sects, and such broils as newer yearst swear heard of also that we are already divided into contrary partes and opinions, and could yet by no means agree well among ourselves.  
Sith that ye raise up again the heresy of Aerius in denying prayer for the dead, 
Confuta. That these Defenders be renewers of old heresies.  who was for the same accounted an heretic above eleven hundred yeres past: sith that ye raise up the heresy of Manichaeus that lived before him, in taking away free will: sith that ye raise up the heresy of Vigilantius in refusing to pray to saints, and to honour their holy relics, and to keep lights in churches to the honour of God, and many other heresies besides of old time condemned: sith that ye raise up the heresy of Berengarius in denying the presence of Christes very body in the blessed sacrament of the altar: and sith that ye add to those mo heresies of your own, as thappointing of the supreme pastorship or regiment of the church in all things and causes spiritual to a lay magistrate, the denying of the external sacrifice of the church which we call the mass, the maintenance of the breach of vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience: again sith that your division into sundry sects can neither be dissembled nor defended, whereof we shall speak hereafter more largely: all these things beside sundry other of like enormity being true, as they be most true: this other cry made vpon you is true.  

Apol.  That we be cursed creatures, and like the giants do war against God himself, and live clean without any regard or worshippinge of God:  

Confut.  What ye be, God knoweth, and your own conscience should know. Our Lord amend both you and vs. But to say somewhat to that your guilty mind imagineth the world to report of you, If they which take away and abhor the external sacrifice, 
Lucae. 22. 1. Cor. 11.  wherein Christ according to his own institution, is offered to his father, make no war against God: if they which make Christ a minister of shadows, signs, tokens, and figures: they which fear not to break their solemn vows made to God, and defend the same as well done: they which assure themselves of their salvation, and therefore live dissolutly without due care and fear of God: If( I say) they be not cursed creatures and like giants that war against God, then are ye clear of this charge. Whether ye be such or no, I report me to your own testimonies in this apology contained.  
That we despise all good deeds: 
apollo.  that we use noe discipline of virtue, no laws, no customs: that we esteem neither right, nor order, nor equity, nor iustice: that we give the bridle to al naughtiness, and provoke the people to all licentiousness and lust.  
Fasting was thought in old time a good work, 
Confut.  and the better when it was kept for religious obedience. 
fast for policy. Fo. 2. Pa. 2.  Ye teach men to fast for policy, not for religion. And by your statute of wednesdays fast, who so ever shall writ or say that forebearing of flesh is a service of God otherwise then as other politic laws are, they shall be punished as spreaders of false news are and ought to be. When ye preach only faith not to remove the merit of works before baptism as S. paul meant it, but also after baptism: 
Epist. ad Roma. Bridle g●uen to lewdnes by this how gospel.  when ye take away the sacrament of confession and absolution, give ye not the bridle to all naughtiness? ask merchants what bridle they haue for their prentices, maisters what stay they haue for their servants, fathers what discipline they haue for their children. Do not some of your gospelling maides of London refuse to serve, except they may haue liberty to hear a sermon before noon, and a play at after noon?  
That we labour and seek to ouerthrowe the state of Monarchies and kingdoms, 
Apolog.  and to bring all things under the rule of the rash inconstant people and unlearned multitude.  
Can work and princes seem to be maintained by your sects, who teach the people to rebel for pretensed religion? 
Confut.  Allow ye the monarchy of the roman Empire, who so much complain in your apology, 
Of this see hereafter, by vew of the table.  that the Pope made charlemagne Emperour of the West? hath the queen of Scotland cause to praise the preachings of your gospel, through occasion whereof she ruleth not her subiectes, but is rather ruled of her subiectes?  

apology.  That we haue seditiously fallen from the catholic church, and by a wicked schism and division haue shaken the whole worlde, and troubled the common peace and universal quiet of the church: and that as Dathan and Abyron conspired in times past against moses and Aaron, even so we at this day haue renounced the Bishop of Rome without any cause reasonable.  

Confutat.  Before Luthers time al christen people came together peaceably into one church, under one head, as sheep into one fold under one shepherd, and so lived vnamines in domo in one accord. But after that Satan who at the beginning beguiled eve, 
division and schism folowed vpon Luthers preaching 1. joan. 2.  had persuaded some to taste of the poisoned apple of Luthers new doctrine: they went out from us, who were not of us,( for if they had ben of us, they had remained with us) forsook the catholic church of Christ, sorted themselves into synagogues of Antichrist, withdrew themselves from obedience toward their Pastor and judge, and sundered themselves into diverse sects. This schism, division, and conspiracy against the head shepherd, is nolesse wicked, then that of Dathan and Abiron against Moyses and Aaron was. 
Nume. 16.  For as God commanded Moyses and Aaron to be obeied of the children of Israel, so Christ commanded all his sheep to obey and hear the voice of him, 
joan. 21.  whom in Peter and succeeding Peter, he made shepherd over his whole flock. What trouble and broil hath sithence that time through this division happened to christendom, the smart thereof so keepeth it in fresh memory, as I need not to rehearse, and as it were with a rough hand touch the wound that is yet raw.  

apology.  That we set nought by the authority of thauncient fathers and Councells of old time: that we haue rashly and presumptuously disannulled the old ceremonies, which haue ben well alowed by our fathers and forefathers many hundreth year past, both by good customs and also in ages of more purity: and that we haue by our own private head without the authority of any sacred and general council brought new traditions into the Church, and haue don all these things not for Religions sake, but only upon a desire of contention and strife.  
The ancient fathers are but men, if they please you not. 
Confutation.  But if ye find any colour of advantage but in the new school men, ye make much of it. So that your own opinion is the rule to esteem them or despise them. councils 
councils  ye admit as your fancy and pleasure leadeth, sometimes three, sometimes four, sometimes five or six. But all ye would never admit, and yet so many as are general and haue ben confirmed by the See apostolic, they are all of like authority. Concerning ceremonies, 
Ceremonies of the church abolished by the gospelers.  if ye show us not the use of chrism in your churches, if the sign of the cross be not born before you in processions and otherwheres used, if holy water be abolished, if lights at the gospel and communion be not had, if peculiar vestiments for deacons, priestes, bishops be taken away, and many such other the like: judge ye whether ye haue duly kept the old ceremonies of the church.  
As for your new traditions, rites and ceremonies, I can not tell what to make of them, nor whether I may so term them. I trow ye make none or few new rites and ceremonies. 
The how ceremonies of the Defenders devise.  Except a communion or mass without water mingled with the wine, without prayer for the dead, without making the sign of the cross over the bread and wine, pulling down of altars, and setting a board in stede thereof, the ministers standing thereat with his face toward the south, hath ever ben heard of before ye framed these pretty devises. Vpon what respect ye haue done all these things, or rather undone many other, both mo and better: it shall appear by the end. For if ye will yield in any one of them, when your error is plainly detected, as it is well known of your side who hath so promised: then may one think, ye fear God. But if ye will stand in defence of all things, what so ever is brought to the contrary, it will thereby appear, ye maintain your strange opinions and devises of self will and unduly.  

apology.  But that they for their parte haue changed no maner of thing, but haue held and kept still such a number of yeares to this very day all things as they were delivered from the Apostles, and well approved by the most ancient Fathers.  

Confutation.  No manner of thing haue we changed, that is of necessity either to be believed, or to be observed. What things ye burden us with not being kept still, as they were delivered from the Apostles and allowed by the fathers: thereto we shall answer you hereafter when we come to those places. Now let us not stay here, because ye bring yet no special matter that greatly requireth answer. It followeth in your apology.  

apology.  And that this matter should not seem to be don but upon privy slander, and to be tossed to and fro in a corner onely to spite us, there haue ben besides wylely procured by the bishop of Rome, certain parsons of eloquence yenough, and not unlearned neither, which should put their help to this cause now almost despaired of, and should polishe and set forth the same, both in books and with long tales, to the end, that when the matter was trimlye and eloquently handled, ignorant and unskilful persons might suspect there was some great thing in it. indeed they perceived that their own cause did every where go to wrake, that their sleights were now espied and less esteemed, and that their helps did daily fail them, and that their matter stood altogether in great need of a cunning spokesman.   

THE THIRD CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  This cause( whereby ye mean the catholic religion) is not despaired of. Thereof if we despaired, we should offend in weacknes of faith, as ye offend in corruption of the faith. We can not despair of this cause, 
The confidence of the catholics touching their cause. luke. 21.  unless we would forsake our faith as ye haue. For believing Christ, which our faith leadeth us unto, we can not mistrust the continuance of this cause. heaven and earth shall pass, but my words shall not pass, saith truth itself. And his words tell us, that he will be with his church all dayes to the world●s end. 
Mat. 28.  and that he hath besought his father to give to it the spirit of truth to remain 
joan. 14.  with it for ever. then be we most assured of this cause. 
The catholic church assuredly defended.  We tell you therefore, it standeth, and shal stand by Christes presence, and by the holy ghosts assistance, to the end. Your cause yet standeth not, but wavereth and tottereth, as that which S. Paul termeth a puff of doctrine, 
Ephes. 4.  and doubtless shortly fall it shal, as all heresies haue fallen. The truth of the catholic faith shal prevail, maugre the power of Antichrist and all his guard. All heresies that haue ben before our time, be condemned, put to silence, and butted. Of which certain ye go about as it were to rak out of their graues again. The auctours and professors of them be dead and rotten, and now every of their spirits crieth peccavi, but to late, in hell fire with weeping and grinting of teeth. The like iudgement look ye and your followers to haue, if ye repent not and revoke your heresies by time. And as ye shall haue your just measure of torments for your heresies, so shall ye haue the same increased for your false slanders. Of which this is one, 
A slander.  where ye say the bishop of Rome hath subornat certain eloquent men to help this cause with their eloquence, as though either the catholic religion needed such help of a cunning spokesman, or he used any crafty and unjust shifts for stay thereof, which in conscience he liked not himself. For somuch importeth your word subornate in latin. And if ye had name those whom he hath wylely subornated, your tale had the less smelled of a slanderous lie.  
Now as for those things which by them haue been laid against us, 
apology.  in part they be manifestly false& condemned so by their own judgements which spake them, partly again, though they be as false to in deed, yet bear they a certain show and colour of truth, so as the Reader( if he take not good hede) may easily be tripped and brought into error by them, specially when their fine and cunning tale is added thereunto: and part of them be of such sort, as we ought not to shun them as crimes or faults, but to acknowledg and profess them as things well done, and vpon very good reason.  

Confutation.  If ye had here uttered any particular and special points, ye should haue heard particular answer. Now that ye speak in general, take ye this for an answer general. First what things the catholics moved with very conscience and love of truth lay against you, they are true, as it shal be manifestly proved, when ye bring us to your specialities. Neither burden they you with ought, wherein by their own judgements they condemn themselves, as ye slander them not only here, but oftentimes in your book. For if they judged otherwise, they would not witting do against their iudgement. That is the special property of an heretic, whom. 
Tit. 3.  S. Paul biddeth all men to avoyde, knowing that he that is such, is perverted, an sinneth even condemned by his own iudgement.  
Secondly, Neither is there less truth in the writings of certain catholic men, wherein they show both your blasphemous heresies and your wicked acts, because their utterance is fine and cunning. For truth may be told finely, and falsehood grossly. Luther ye know powred out his heresies and villainies against king Henry the eight rudely, and a learned catholic of England bearing the name of Rossaeus answered him cunningly. 
Rossaeus.  Hereof( if need were) we could recite other examples enough.  
Thirdly, whereas certain things against your side objected by the catholics, ye do not onely not shun as crimes and faults, but also aclowledge and uphold as well done: If ye mean your robbing of churches, persecuting of men for standing steadfastly in the faith of the holy forefathers, your incestuous mariagies of monks, friers, and Nonnes, your breach of solemn vows for fleshly pleasure, your profaning and abandoning of holy sacramentes, your contempt of ancient and godly ordinances and discipline of the church, and such other things of like estimation: then show ye yourselves to be of that sort against whom our Lord thundereth out his terrible Vae by the prophet Esaie. 
Esai. 5.  O be to you( saith he) which say, evil is good, and good is evil, which put darkness for light, and light for darkness, which put bitter to be sweet, and sweet to be bitter.  
For shortly to say the truth, 
apology.  these folk falsely accuse and slander all our doings: yea the same things which they themselves can not deny but to be rightly and orderly don, and for malice do so misconstre and deprave all our sayings and doings, as though it were impossible, that any thing could be rightly spoken or don by vs. They should more plainly and sincerely haue gone to work if they would haue dealt truly, but now they neither truly nor sincerelye: nor yet Christianly, but darklye and craftily charge and batter us with lies, and do abuse the blindness and fondenes of the people, together with the ignorance of Princes, to cause us to be hated, and the truth to be suppressed.  
Ye say the truth so shortly, 
Confutation.  that ye haue all said and done, before ye say ever a true word. How falsely the catholics accuse and slander your doings, hereafter ye go about to show. To those places we differre our answer. 
The first part of the Apolog●e is but a flourish, as it were, an tuning of their instrument.  For al that ye say yet, is but like a flourish, as players of defence use before they come to sad blows, or like the prelude of a minstrel, or tuning of his instrument, before he begin his song. Briefly where ye charge us( for gladly we profess ourselves to be of that number whom ye impugn) with malice, slanders, and lies: I report me to the indifferent reader, when he shall haue perused this confutation, on whether side that fowle spot shall seem to cleave.  
This, lo ye, is the power of darkness and of men, 
apology  which lean more to the amazed wondering of the rude multitude and to darkness, then they do to the truth and light: and as S. jerome saieth, which do openly gainsay the truth, closing up their eyes, and will not se for the nonce. But we give thankes to the most good and mighty God, that such is our cause, where against( when they would feignest) they were able to utter no despite, but the same which might aswell bee wrested against the holy Fathers, against the Prophetes, against the Apostles, against Peter, against paul, and against Christ himself.  

Confutation.  Yet ye join not, but keep yourselves aloosse of. Therefore ye reach not home. These sore blows do but stricke the air, and only cause a whizzing noyes. To all that ye say here, if we said all were false: ye were truly answered. Truth standeth not in your words, but in things as they be. Ye were not best to vaunt yourselves somuch, lest wise men think, your trumpet soundeth triumph before the victory. learned men of the catholic church haue truly charged you with heinous heresies, and great enormities of life, committed by the pretenced liberty of your gospel, which here is not their place to rehearse. Of the same to say, that they may as well be wrested against the fathers, Prophetes, Apostles, 
A long talk of a matter needles. A brief recital of things hitherto said in the apology.  and Christ himself, were extreme blasphemy. Thus hitherto ye haue done nothing else, but uttered a long talk for proof of that no man denieth. First, that truth is persecuted, next, that yourselves are persecuted. Wherein ye needed not to bestow so many words. For in dede the catholics do persecute you,( if such deserved entreating of evil persons may be called persecution) and all good folk besides, we grant, and shall so do, so long as they love the truth, and keep them in the unity of the church. Yet with no other mind do they persecute you, 
Gen. 16.  then Sara did Agar, then Christ the Iewes, 
joan. 2. Aegesippus  whom he whipped out of the temple, then Peter did Simon Magus. Humble your hartes, consider from whence ye are fallen, repent and return, forsake your heresies, embrace the catholic faith, and come again to the church: they will persecute you no more, but receive you, love you, and honour you like members of one body. After these you procede as followeth.  

apology.  Now therfore, if it be leeful for these folkes to be eloquent and fine tongued in speaking evil, surely it becometh not us in our cause, being so very good, to be dumb in answering truly. For men to be careless what is spoken by them and their own matter, bee it never so falsely and slaunderouselie spoken,( especially when it is such, that the majesty of God and the cause of religion may thereby be damaged) is the part doubtless of dissolute and retcheles persons, and of them which wickedly winke at the injuries done unto the name of God. For although other wronges, yea oftentimes great, may be born and dissembled of a mild and Christian man, yet he that goeth smothelye awaie and dissembleth the matter when he is noted of heresy, Ruffinus was cannon-shot to deny that man to be a Christian. We therfore will do the same thing which all laws, which natures own voice doth commande to be don, and which christ himself did in like case when he was checked and reviled, to the intent we may put of from us these mens slanderous accusations, and may defend soberly and truly our own cause and innocency.   

THE fourth CHAPTER.  
Ye infer of your former talk, 
Confutation.  that it becometh you thus to answer for yourselves, as though hitherto ye had proved the truth to be of your side. Which ye haue not proved, nor ever shall be able to prove, maintaining the doctrine of the Lutherans, zwinglians, and calvinists, as ye do. Now all dependeth of that point. And because ye haue not the truth, what so ever ye say, it is sone confuted, and what so ever ye bring, it is to no purpose. By gay words ye may beguile the simplo. The learned look for reason and proof, whereof because ye are destitute, ye do not only by any your rhetoric not persuade, but show the weakness of your cause. Yet ye procede and speak as though it were granted and confessed, your doctrine to be true. But to that ye say in this place, we answer. If ye held the truth, it should right well become you to speak for yourselves, but forasmuch as ye haue forsaken the catholic church, to whom the spirit of truth is promised, and where the truth only is learned: the more ye speak in your defence, the more obstinate ye show your selves, the more vengeance ye procure you at Gods hand, the greater heap of damnation ye accumulate to yourselves. Neither proceeding in this obstinacy, trust ye to find defence in the laws of men, in the voice of nature, in the example of Christ: but assure yourselves, all laws will impugn you, nature will cry out against you, Christ will condemn you.  

apology.  For Christ verily when the Pharysies charged him with sorcery as one that had some familiar Spirites, and wrought many things by their help, I said he, haue not the divell, b●t do glorify my Father: but it is you, that haue dishonoured me, and put me to rebuk and shane. And S. Paul when Festus the lieutenant scorned him as a mad man: I( said he) most deere Festus, am not madas thou thinkest, but I speak the words of truth and sobrenes. And the ancient Christians when they wer slandered to the people for mankillers, for adulterors, for committers of incest, for disturbers of common weales, and did perceive that by such slanderous accusations the Religion which they professed, might be brought in question, namely if they should seem to hold their peace, and in manner to confess the fault; lest this might hinder the free course of the gospel, they made Orations, they put up supplications, and made means to Emperors, and Princes, that they might defend themselves and their fellows in open audience.  

Confutation.  When ye prove that ye haue the truth, then may ye be admitted in your defence to allege the example of Christ, of S. Paul, and of the first Christians. But now we tell you being as ye are, these examples serve you to no purpose. And for ought ye haue said hitherto, the Anabaptistes, Libertines, Zuenkfeldians, Nestorians, Eunomians, Arians, and all other pestiferous heretics might say the same as well as ye. Christ was charged of the Iewes with using the power of impure spirits blasfemously, 
Luke. 11.  Paul was scorned of Festus as a mad man without cause, 
Act. 26.  the ancient Christians were accused by thinfidels of heinous crimes falsely. 
Tertullian n apolog.  But ye are accused of heresies and sundry impieties by godly, wise, and faithful men, vpon zeal, by good aduise, and truly. And as for those ancient Christians, when they made Apologies or orations in defence of the Christen faith, 
The Apologies of the old fathers were lawfully published. Eccles. Hist. li. 4. c. 26. Ecclesi. Hist. lib. 5. ca. 21.  they did it so as became Christen men, plainly and openly. Either they offered them to the Emperours with their own hands, or put to their names, and signified to whom they gave the same. As S. Hilary delivered a book in defence of the catholic faith against the Arians to Constantius. Melito and Apollinaris wrote their Apologies to the Emperours. S. justine the philosopher and martyr gave his first apology for the Christians to the senate of the Romaines, the second to Antoninus pus Emperour. Tertullian to the Romaines. S. Apollonius the roman senator and martyr did red his book openly in the senate house, which he had made in defence of the Christen faith. 
The apology of the church of England set forth suspiciously, and without due order.  But ye do your things that ought to be done openly, in hucker mucker. Ye set forth your apology in the name of the church of England, before any mean part of the church were priuey to it, and so as though either ye were ashamed of it, or afraid to abide by it. The inscription of it is directed neither to Pope nor Emperour, nor to any Prince, nor to the church, nor to the general council then being when ye wrote it, as it was most convenient. There is no mans name set to it, it is printed without privilege of the Prince contrary to lawe in that behalf made: allowed neither by parliament, nor by proclamation, nor agreed vpon by the clergy in public and lawful synod. This packing becometh you, it becometh not the upright professors of the truth. Wherefore your unlawful book, 
The apology a famous libel.  as it is, so it may be called an invective or rather a famous libel and slanderous writ, as that which seemeth to haue ben made in a corner, and cast abroad in the streets, the authors whereof the civil lawe punisheth sharply.  
But we truly, 
apology  seeing that so many thousands of our brethren in these last thirty yeares haue born towns unto the truth, in the midst of most painful torments that could be devised: and when Princes desirous to restrain the Gospel sought many ways but prevailed nothing, and that now almost the whole world doth begin to open their eyes to behold the light: we take it that our cause hath already ben sufficiently declared and defended, and think it not needful to make many words, since the very matter saith enough for yt self.   

THE FIFTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  Your first common place which ye treat, is, that truth is always persecuted. Next, that yourselves are persecuted. Then, that it is lawful for you to defend your cause. The two former may be granted. This latter is denied you. The reasons and examples ye bring for it, conclude nothing. Because lacking truth ye build vpona false ground, what so ever ye set up, eftsoons it falleth, being stayed by no just proof. Here ye go forth, and fain would ye prop up that matter, but your reasons be as weak as before.  
There haue not so many thousands of your brethren ben burnt for heresy in these last twenty yeres, as ye pretend. But when ye come to boasting, then haue ye a great grace in using the figure Hyperbole. Then scores be hundreds, hundreds be thousands, thousands be millions. Neither haue those brethren of yours by their due punishment of burning born witness unto the truth, but shewed their desperat obstinacy against the truth. 
The burning of heretics made an argument of truth by the defenders.  But what wisdom or reason is it to make their burning an argument of the truth of your side? were all they that haue ben burnt by commandment of Christen Magistrates in those your late twenty yeres your brethren? verily then haue ye a holy brotherhood. Was Michael servetus the Arian, 
servetus burnt for heresy at Geneua.  who was burnt at Geneua by procurement of calvin, a brother of yours? david George 
david George  that took vpon him to be Christ, who was taken up after he was butted and burnt at basil, whas he your brother? to come near home, joan of Kent 
joan of kent.  that filth, who took forth a lesson further then ye taught her( I trow) or yet preach, was she a sister of yours? So many Adamites, so many Zwenckfeldians, so many hundreds of Anabaptistes and libertines, as haue within your twenty yeres ben rid out of their lives by fire, sword, and water in sundry partes of christendom, were they all of your blessed brotherhood? If ye forswear their company, and say they were none of your congregation: why make ye the burning of brethren an argument of the truth of your gospel, 
The chief argument of the gospelers truth is burning of brothers. acts and monuments.  whereof the professors of those other sects haue as great advantage as your own sect? yet is this the greatest argument wherewith ye blear the eyes of the ignorant people. And this is the chief argument ye make in in all that huge dongehill of your stinking martyrs, which ye haue entitled acts and monuments.) But we tell you. It is not death that justifieth the cause of dying. But it is the cause of dying that justifieth the death. He that death for maintenance of a good cause, is blessed. He that death for an evil dede, suffereth his deserved punishment. He that death in defence of your or any other heresies, beginneth his hell here, and from the smoke of temporal fire leapeth into the flamme of everlasting fire.  
Princes( ye say) were desirous, to restrain your gospel, and though they went about it by many ways, yet prevailed they nothing. Therefore your doctrine must needs be the true gospel. As good an argument as this is, 
A archbishopric argument of truth.  may thieves make in their defence. For princes be desiderous to keep their dominions from robbing, and haue ever devised strait laws and punishments for restraint of thieves: yet be thieves every where, and theft is daily committed. Then by your logic what shall a man say to it, but that thieves are of such a vocation, as God is pleased withall, and which he will haue to continue and prosper? know ye not that many times weeds grow, though the ground be weeded? Some ground will be weedy, be it never so diligently weeded. But generally the more it is rid of weeds, the cleaner it proveth. catholic princes haue in some countries sought ways to restrain your heresies. Yet were not those countries thereby wholly purged, such is the infection of that evil. And where as your gospel, 
This carnal gospel sone taketh place among carnal hearers. Heresies restrained by due punishment.  is a gross gospel, a carnal gospel, a belly gospel: wonder it is not, if those peoples be not wholly withdrawn from assenting to the same who be not of the finest wits, and be much given to the service of the belly and of the things beneath the belly. Yet where the princes haue used most diligence and best means to stop the course of your heresies, there the people remain most catholic. As every man may judge by view of Italy, spain, base almain, and france, before that weighty sceptre by Gods secret providence for punishment of sin, was committed to feeble hands, that for tender age were not able to bear it. To conclude, if princes of germany at the first had ben so earnestly bent to restrain your gospel, as more providently then godly they foresaw their permission of your preachings should fill their coffers: ye had not at this day had cause of so great boast.  

An argument of the defenders, serving well for Antichrist.  Your other argument, whereby ye would persuade your gospel to be the truth, is, that now( as ye crack) almost the whole world doth begin to open their eyes to behold the light. This argument serveth marvelous well for Antichrist. And truly if he be not already come, ye may very well seem to be his foreronners. 
Esai. 5.  For at his coming, when evil shall bear the name of good, and darkness the name of light, when the greater number shal follow him, and few stand to the true faith of Christ: what better argument can his ministers make to deceive those few that remain sound and whole, then saying as ye say, what doubt ye of our doctrine, seing that now almost the whole world followeth this way and beginneth to open their eyes to behold the light? If Antichristes doctrine be false, though many shal believe it, why shal we think your darkness to be the light, because many begin to open their eyes to grope in it? 
Multitude maketh not prouf of goodness. Cap. 5.  If multitude make proof of goodness, then let esay recant, who saith, O be to them that say, evil is good, and good is evil. For then is evil good in dede, because almost the whole world followeth evil. Nay Sirs, if it be true that ye say, that almost the whole world looketh that way, knowing that in the latter dayes and toward the end of the world iniquity shall abound, 
mat. 24.  and the charity of the more part shall wax cold: we may rather make a contrary argument, and judge your gospel to be erroneous and false, 
Thargument of multitude returned vpon the defenders to a contrary conclusion  because the multitude is so ready to receive it. again Christ hath not loved his church so little, as that the world should now begin to open their eyes to behold the light. For the same presupposeth a former general darkness. It standeth not with Christes promises made to the church, touching his being with the church all dayes to the worlds end, 
mat. 28.  and the holy ghosts remaining with it the spirit of truth for ever, 
johan. 14.  that he should suffer his church to continue in darkness and lack of truth these thousand yeres past, and now at the latter dayes to reveal the truth of his gospel by Apostates, vowebreakers, churchrobbers, and such other most unlike to the Apostles. Wherefore ye may think sirs, that ye haue need to say more and otherwise for yourselves, then ye haue hitherto said. For as ye see, what so ever ye say, your very matter saith not enough for itself.  
For yf the Popes would, 
apology.  or else if they could thorough with their own selves the whole matter, and also the beginning and preachings of our Religion, how in a manner al their travail hath come to nought, no body driving it forwarde, and without any wordely help: and how on the other side, our cause, against the will of emperors, from the beginning against the willes of so many kings, in spite of the Popes, and almost maugre the head of all men, hath taken increase, and by little and little spread over into all countries, and is come at length even into Kings courts and Palaices. These same things me thinketh might bee tokens great enough to them, that God himself doth strongly fight in our quarrel, and doth from heaven laugh at their enterprises: and that the force of the truth is such, as neither mans power, nor yet hell gates are able to roote it out.  

Confutation.  It is well that ye use the term of the beginning and preachings of your religion. 
The Defenders gospel acknowleged to haue ben of late begun. preachings. 2. Tim. 3.  For in dede of late yeres it began, not at jerusalem, but at Wittenberg. Neither was it first delivered unto you by an Apostle, but by an Apostata. Still it proceedeth, and the farther of from the end And well may ye name it your preachings, for there is no stay in it. What liketh to day, misliketh to morrow. The silly beguiled souls that follow it, be as S. Paul saith, ever learning, and never reaching to the knowledge of the truth. But why speak ye so, as ye might seem to make it a matter of difficulty for the Popes to weigh the whole matter, and to understand the beginning and preachings of your religion? For is not that matter plain enough? what mysteries haue ye therein that in manner al the world knoweth not? 
The first beginning of this how gospel, and the occasion that first moved Luther to heresy.  Did not your religion begin first of covetise, and grew it not afterward of rancour and malice, which Martin Luther conceived against the Dominican friers in saxony, because Albert the archbishop of Mentz and elector of the Empire, had admitted them to be preachers of the pardon of a crusade against the Turkes, contrary to an ancient custom whereby the Augustine friers of whom Luther was one, had of long time ben in possession of that preferment? Is it not well known what a stir friar Luther made against John Tetzet the friar of S. Dominikes order, for that the said Tetzet was made chief preacher of a pardon wherein was great gain, and thereby himself was bereft of that sweet morsel, which in hope he had almost swallowed down?  
Now for the preachings of your matter, know we not, 
Luthers procedings.  how Luther proceeded from evil to worse and worse, preached openly his heresies, wrote heretical books, and wrought all the spite he could against the church, against the clergy of all degrees, against the highest states and princes of the world? 
Luthers villainy against king Henry theight.  among whom who knoweth not how villainously he demeaned himself against king Henry the eight a prince of famous memory? Where ye say your religion is spread abroad, and hath taken so much increase against the wills of princes, and almost maugre the head of all men: that is as false as your religion is. 
Luther defended by the duke of saxony.  For was not Luther always defended and maintained by fredrick the Duke of saxony? Came he ever out of that dukes dominion to be convented any where, but by his means was guarded and assured with false conduct, first of Maximilian the Emperour, and afterward of Charles the fifth? 
The new gospel set forth not without worldely help.  Both before and since Luthers death, hath not your religion ben set up and maintained by the help of men? Did not the great slaughter of your hundred thousand bowers of germany signify to the world, your cause to haue had the help of man? What may we judge of the great League of Germaine Princes made at the diet of Smalcald for defence of your Lutheran gospel? 
The diet of Smalcald.  When so many princes joined their forces together, when so great hostes did put themselves in arms, when so many free Cities levied their powers, and all for the defence of Luthers new revealed gospel: can ye say, it was not aided by men, but that it proceeded maugre the head of all men? 
The Huguenots of france.  The troubles and tumults of france raised by your brethren the Huguenots, and the lamentable outrages committed there for your gospels sake, be they not a witness of fresh memory, that your religion is maintained, set forth, and defended with power and help of men? As for other great princes, forasmuch as God hath called them from the earth to his iudgement, how much they and their deputes haue travailed by all means to further the course of your gospel, I say nothing. It becometh not me to utter any thing, whereby to stain their noble memories. What men haue sene, that know they, though it be not spoken. But verily saying that the preachings of your religion haue not ben assisted with any worldly help or power of man, 
The coming of Luthers gospel into princes courts is a archbishopric argument for the truth. {αβγδ}.  ye shal say that thing whereby your credite must needs be impaired. That it is now at length come even into kings courts and palaises, it moveth wise men nolesse to suspect it then to praise it. Thus haue ye said nothing yet, why any wise man should be greatly moved with your tokens and coniectural arguments, and think that God himself fighteth in your quarrel, and from heaven laugheth at the steadfastness of the catholics. Nay he is moved to laugh( as God may thereto be moved) rather at you his enemies, and at your weak reasons, and every good man rejoiceth that so wicked a cause is so faintly defended.  

apology.  For they be not all mad at this day, so many free Cities, so many kings, so many Princes which haue fallen away from the seat of Rome, and haue rather joined themselves to the gospel of Christ.  

Confutation.  Lastly concerning your so many free Cities, so many kings, so many princes, who haue withdrawn themselves from the faith of the holy roman church, by which we mean the whole west churth, the faith whereof is the catholic faith, and haue joined themselves to your new found gospel, which ye call the gospel of Christ: that they be mad, I say not. The term is odious, and offendeth civil ears. 
They that depart from the catholic church to the sects of Luthers gospel, be not mad: but rather worse then mad.  But who so ever sever themselves from Christes catholic church. and come to your sects, and there remain, be they of free Cities, be they kings, Princes, or of what estate so ever they be: they offend God grievously by breaking thunitie, lose their part with Christ, who giveth the grace of his spirit to those only that be members of his body the church, who died for the church only, and procure to themselves damnation everlasting. Now whether they that forsake Christ, and the blessed company of the kingdom of heaven, to bear you company in this life, and after this life to be companions with devils in everlasting fire, whether they be mad in making so evil a bargain or no, or worse then mad: I report me to the due consideration of so many as believe there is a heaven prepared for the godly, and a hell for the wicked.  
And where ye say so many free cities, so many kings, 
zwinglians and calvinists abhorred almost through all germany.  I pray you, how many free cities can ye name,( meaning by the name of free cities the imperial free cities of germany which properly are there called free cities) that haue received your sacramentary religion? Nay the free cities of germany so many as haue forsaken the catholic church, and haue received Luthers gospel, do they not persecute you the sacramentaries, and abhor your sacramentary heresy? Bremen that of late is fallen from Luther, 
Bremen.  and is reported to become zwinglian, and one or two mo in the palsgrave of Rhenes dominion, they be rather tottering between both, then firmly settled in your sacramentary gospel. But( say ye) they be fallen from the seat of Rome. So be the greeks also in a point or two, yet condemn they you for heretics. So doth Luther himself with all his fowle sturdy eloquence, so do all the free Cities and all other that hold of him. Neither be all the free Cities and all the country of germany fallen from the see apostolic. Of five partes of that great country, at least two remain catholic.  
Furthermore who readeth your book, or heareth it readen, coming to this place, where ye say so many kings, not knowing the state of things may think, that a great number of kings are become professors of your gospel. But why do ye thus deceive the world? When truth is known, what gain ye by it, 
never a king in Christendom certainly knowen to profess the religion of the Defenders.  but the estimation of liars? Let us see, how make ye up the number of so many kings ye speak of? And to deal plainly, let us reckon up not those that be of your sacramentary side,( for ye sacramentaries haue not so much as one king to crack of in all the world) but so many as be fallen from the seat of Rome, as ye term it. First is Philip the king of spain, Naples, and sicily one? No Is Charles the young French king one? No Is Sebastian the king of Portugall one? No Is Maximilian king of hungary and Bemeland, and now Emperour one? No Is Sigismond king of Pole one? No. Though sects grow rejoicingly in his realm through his lenity and overmuch clemency as it is thought, yet his own person and the body of the realm is catholic and falleth not from the see apostolic. The realms of England and Scotland, because by Gods providence the government of them is devolved to women, forasmuch as they be no kings, of whom only ye make your vaunt, though they haue the full right of kings, of them I speak not. Now only two christened kings remain, the king of denmark, and the king of Sweden. which( we confess) as they be departed from the obedience of the roman church, so suffer they not all sorts of weeds of your sacramentary heresy freely to grow in their lands, specially the king of denmark. These be all ye can name, and the same enemies to your religion. Gete ye now up into your pulpettes, like bragging cocks on the rowst, slappe your wings, and crow out aloud, so many free Cities, so many kings, so many Princes.  
To conclude, we say, if by your opinion, 
If a few were not mad, what may be thought of all?  they be not all mad at this day, so many free Cities, so many kings, so many princes, which be fallen away from the catholic faith professed in the see apostolic, and haue joined themselves to your late upstart gospel, which be few in comparison of all: what may we say on tother side, or what can ye say yourselves to be liked of any reasonable man, of all the world before this day from the time the Christian faith was first spread abroad? Were all Cities free and other, all towns, boroughs, villages, and houses, were all provinces, countries, realms, Empires, Europe, afric, Asia, all the whole world, where the sound of the gospel came, were all lay men, all kings, princes, clerkes, learned men, pastours, 
Ephes. 4.  doctors, evangelists, Prophetes, Apostles, whom Christ placed in earth to thintent all things necessary to the building up of his mystical body the church should be ministered until it come unto perfection, that we might not be carried away with every wind of doctrine by the falsehood of men: briefly all men from the Apostles time till friar Luther came, and with his Nonne told us a new doctrine, and controlled all the old, were all these mad? I hold him worse them mad, that is so mad, as to justify your fewness, and condemn the universality, to account all that ever haue ben to this time beguiled, and judge only a few at this day instructed in a new trade of religion to walk safely. Thus we set all against your so many, which truly numbered amount but to a few, these thousand or rather fiften hundred yeres, to your this day. The iudgement whereof we leave, to ears that hear, to eyes that see, yea to hands that feel.  
But where as ye will not haue them accounted mad, 
If the protestantes and Sacramentaries be not mad, what shal be said of the grace of god wrought by the Iesuites in the how sound lands, where infinite numbers be converted to the faith?  so many free Cities, so many kings, so many Princes, which haue fallen away from the see apostolic these late yeres, whom ye haue made of catholics heretics, of right believers forsakers of the faith, and so consequently infidels, or worse them infidels: what account make ye of the work of the holy ghost, which of late yeres he hath wrought by the virtuous men of the society of Iesus? Haue not they brought many countries, many kings, many princes, many peoples to the faith of Christ by preaching the doctrine of the catholic church? Ye of right believers make infidels, they of infidels make right believers. We will not follow your foolishness in boasting, but we will rejoice in our Lord for such witness given to the truth. As we boast not with you, so we render praise and glory to God against you, for that he hath spread the knowledge of his name so far abroad in the farthest partes of the world, where the faith was not heard of before by those catholic preachers, in Peru, in the kingdom of Ignamban, which lieth in the south coste of all Afrike beyond the dominions of Prester John, 
countries of late converted.  in the kingdom of Monopotapa, in the great kingdom of Cambaia which lieth about Calicut, in the great island of Giapan, in the main countries of Cina and Tartaio which lie farthest east, in the kingdom of Bisnaga about Ganges, in the famous island Taprobana, in the island Ormuz lying in Sinu Persico. Neither praise we and glorify God only for great countries in which he hath wrought this glorious work by preaching of the faith professed in the holy roman church, which these men call papistry: but also for sundry kings by preaching of the same faith brought to believe in Christ, namely the two kings of Ceilon and Zimor, the good king of Ignamban who was christened in the year of our Lord God 1559, as his own lettres do witness written to Don Constantino the king of Portugals vicegerent in Goa: Also for the king of the island Bacian, who whas Christened in the year 1558. Lastly for the four kings baptized in the rich country of Macazar by the holy father Vincentius Viegas. For certain knowledge of this and of much more the like joyful matter, we haue the true certificate made by the said holy fathers of the society of Iesus translated out of the spanish into the Italian tongue with notice of all the circumstances set forth in print, which every man that understandeth that tongue may red to his great comfort.  
Least our aduersaries should charge us with untruth, speaking of the above mentioned countries, we mean not that the whole said countries be converted to the faith as yet, for then were christendom by many partes more there, then it is here, but that in every of them great numbers of people be christened. And how much the faith increaceth there yearly and daily, conjecture may be gathered by that is most certainly known to haue ben done of late yeres in Goa a city placed in the east part of the world, 
Goa is now under the King of Portugal.  not far from Calicut. Where first in the year of our Lord 1556, were christened 42, persons: in the next year 1557, of all sorts 1080: in the year 1558, a thousand nine hundred and sixteen: in the year following, 3260: and in the year 1560, there were christened twelve thousand seven hundred two and forty persons.  
If ye dare say, your so many free cities, so many kings, be not mad, that haue forsaken the faith professed in the church of Rome, wherein ye say not truly: how much more may we say, blessed be the name of God, who hath called to the confession and knowledge of his holy name so great numbers of infidels by preaching of that doctrine which ye detest and abhor? What so ever your scoffing spirit will report of these peoples converted to the faith at the same time as ye perverted and turned from the faith your so many free Cities, though ye call them mad, simplo, or ignorant: verily the miracles by those holy fathers which converted them through Gods power wrought, and that special grace of the holy ghost, I trow ye will not account to be madness. Thus your vain boast in wickedness wrought by the power of satan, is put to silence with our true joy powred into our hartes for so great abundance of the grace of God wrought by the holy ghost in the conversion of so many souls which had not heard of Christ before.  

apology  And although the Popes had never hetherunto leasour to consider diligently and earnestly of these matters, or though some other c●res do now let them and diverse ways pull them, or though they coumpt these to be but common and trieflinge studies, and nothing to appertain to the Popes worthines, this maketh not why our matter ought to seem the worse.  

Confutation.  certain it is the Popes study earnestly to appease the troubles against the church by you raised, to extinguish your heresies, and to reform things amiss, as it may appear by their great care and travail employed about the late general council. But whether they had due care hereof or no, yet can not your doings seem in every respect but nought.  

apology.  Or if they perchance will not see that which they see in dede, but rather will withstande the knowen truth, ought we therefore by and by to be counted heretics because we obey not their will and pleasure?  

Confutation. joan. 21.  Sith Christ hath given to the Pope in Peter, whose lawful successor he is, commission to feed his sheep: wholesome feeding being th'end of that commission, it is not to be doubted, but he that ordained th'end, hath also ordained means belonging to thende. Therefore it is not the duty of a good and humble sheep, to give forth a malicious surmise, that the shepherd will not see that he seeth in dede, but rather will withstand the known truth. And what so ever sheep be disobedient, and refuse to hear the voice of their shepherd, whom Christ hath made over them, the same be not of Christes fold. And maintaining contrary doctrine to their foresees true doctrine, justly may they be accounted heretics.  
If so be that Pope pus were the man( we say not which he would so gladly be called) but if he were in deed a man that either would account us for his brethrene, 
apology.  or at least would take us to be men, he would first diligently haue examined our reasons, and would haue sene what might be said with us, what against us, and would not in his Bull whereby he lately pretended a council, so rashly haue condemned so great a part of the worlde, so many learned and godly men, so many common wealthes, so many kings, and so many princes, only upon his own blind preiudices and foredeterminations, and that without hearing of them speak, or without knowing cause whye.  
speak of Pope pus what ye will, and what ye can. 
Confutation.  Neither your praise can advance his estimation, nor your dispraise abase it. His singular virtues be well known. God is highly to be praised, for that he hath provided for his flock so good a shepherd. As for you, as he taketh you to be men, so not his brethren, because ye haue cut of yourselves from the catholic church, which is the body of Christ. Whereof by charity and unity of faith being joined together, we are members one of an other, and brethren together in Christ the head of that body. Your reasons haue ben diligently and exactly examined already. In respect of your reasons, learning and holy scriptures which ye bring, 
A comparison betwen the defenders and Balsasar king of Babylon.  ye are found such as Balsasar king of Babylon was signified by the hand, that appeared writing before him in the wall. As he in his banquet abused the holy vessels of Gods temple, so abuse ye the scriptures of God in your writings and threatenings. As Daniel 
Daniel.   told him, so we tell you, or rather the church telleth you which Christ commanded to be heard. Your reasons be numbered, and be found to lack of their just tale. They be weighed, and prove to light. Wherefore both ye and your reasons be divided, cut of, and put aside by just excommunication, as being such, which are no more to be heard, unless ye repent and revoke your errors. 
No good wrought by reasoning with heretics.  What it is heretics to be admitted to reasoning, it is and hath ben evermore to well known. Be they never so thoroughly confuted, they yield not. overcome they may be, reformed they will not be. Therein no good lightly is done. Breath is spent, blasphemies be uttered, the spirit is irked. Yet if ye, or your so many learned men, so many common weals, so many free cities, so many kings, so many princes, would needs haue your reasons heard and examined: why came ye not to the council at Trent, specially being by public summon thither invited, where ye were assured by all means of good assurance safely and quietly to be heard, what ye could bring or say for your doctrine?  

apology  But because he hath already so noted us openly, least by holding our peace we should seem to grant a fault, and specially because we can by no mean haue audience in the public assembly of the general council, wherein he would no creature should haue power to give his voice or declare his opinion, except he were sworne and straightly bound to maintain his authority.  
For we haue had good experience hereof in his last conference at the council at Trident, where the ambassadors& divines of the Princes of Germany and of the free Cities were quiter shut out from their company: neither can we yet forget, how Iulius the third, above ten yeares past, provided warely by his write, that none of our sort should bee suffered to speak in the council( except there weresom peradventure that wolde recante and change his opinion). For this cause chiefly we thought it good to yield up an account of our faith in writing,& truly and openly to make aunswere to those things whervvith we haue ben openly charged, to thende the worlde may see the partes and foundations of that doctrine, in the behalf whereof so many good men haue little regarded their oune lives. And that all men may understand what manner of people they be, and what opinion they haue of God and of Religion, whom the Bishop of Rome before they were called to tell their tale, hath condemned for heretics, without any good consideration, without any example and utterly without draw or right, onely because he heard tell that they did dissente from him and his in some point of Religion.   

THE SIXTH CHAPTER.  
After the large discourses vpon your three common places, 
Confutation. The scope of the apology.  that truth is always persecuted, that yourselves be persecuted, and that it is lawful for you to defend your cause: now ye come near toward the scope of your apology, and speaking more particularly ye say, that ye haue thought good to yield up an account of your faith in writing, and to answer the things ye are charged with. 
Two causes of making the apology.  For doing the same ye allege two causes. The first is lest by holding your peace, ye should seem to grant a fault. The second which ye make more special, is because by no means ye could haue audience in the late general council. Your second cause is false, as hereafter it shall be shewed. Your first is nought, as that which sheweth your pride, vain glory, and pertinacy. For having maintained sundry heresies( as hereafter it shall be proved) it had ben rather your duty by speaking to confess your fault, then so to speak, as whereby ye may seem to grant no fault. To haue acknouledged your fault, it had ben a virtue. Now thus to speak in defence of your fault, it is a doubling of your fault. Well, ye do but as heretics before you haue ever done. It must not be looked for at your hands, that ye aclowledge any fault. For that were humility, which virtue all heretics be far from.  
Ye seem to be offended with the custom of general councils, because thereby ye be not admitted to give your voice or declare your opinion. 
In councils any man may new his opinion, but none may give a voice, or suffrage, and sentence definitive, but only bishops.  To declare his opinion in certain cases at a general council any man may be admitted. But to give a voice or suffrage, and to utter sentence definitive, it pertaineth only to bishops, because to them specially belongeth jurisdiction, power to bind and loose, and the government of churches. Now ye being no bishops, but some of you more lay men, and most of you Apostates, ye must content yourselves, if ye be justly restrained from that, which is above the degree of your vocation.  
Whether the ambassadors and divines of the Princes of germany and of the free Cities there, were at any time vpon any consideration of their misliked demeanour, or for any other just cause restrained from the company of the fathers in the late general council at Trent, and if any such restraint was at all, for what causes, and for how long time the same was made: again whether Pope Iulius the third provided by any writ, that none of your sort should be suffered to speak in the council, the cause of recantation excepted: and if any such writ was thither directed, vpon what aduise, and for what limitation of time it took place: the truth hereof shall plainly appear in the acts of the council, 
The acts of the Tridentine council.  which shortly shall come forth in print for all men to red. I doubt not but those acts shall either convince you of vntrouth, or( if any such thing was done) show such causes thereof, as to any wise man shall seem just and reasonable. What ye say touching this matter, because ye say it without proof, we haue found you in so many other points of greater importance so far to step aside from truth: that for this we can not believe you. But that yourselves by no means could haue audience in the council at Trent, and that the ambassadors and divines of the princes and free Cities of germany were from thence quiter shut out: 
Three safe conducts granted for liberty of the protestantes to come to the late general council, and there to treat freely.  how true that is, I report me to the three safe conducts, which the three Popes, under whom that council was holden, granted forth, and confirmed in that behalf. They be to be sene in every book of the council to your discredit for ever. Thabbridgement of which the reader shal find hereafter toward the end of this confutation, directed by the table, in the word safe-conducts. Wherefore belie the council nomore complaining that ye could not there haue audience and be heard.  
Ye yeld up an account of your faith in writing ye say. 
An account of faith by the defenders yielded up in writing without due order in all respects.  But to whom do ye yield it up? and by whom is it yielded? from whom cometh the same? Do ye aclowledge no lawful judge, no lawful consistory in the whole world? Committe ye your whole matter to the temeritie of the people? Why haue ye not set your names to the book, that containeth the profession of your faith and of your whole conscience? Why was not the same made authentical by the assent of a synod of bishops, and by the subscription of their names? ye would so haue done perhaps, if ye had bishops. Why took ye not example of the book containing the institution of a christen man set forth in king Henry theightes time? Though the doctrine of it be not in certain points sound and catholic, yet the maner of the publication of it resembleth authority and due order. The like example I ween hath not ben sene before these dayes. Had ye done orderly, ye should haue sent your book, sith ye durst not appear there yourselves, to the council with your orators. Ye should haue offered yourselves and your doctrine to be tried and judged. Now ye seem to haue done your things very slenderly and lightly, without all gravity, without all authority, without all due order, much like as rebelles do their troublesone affairs. 
The defenders not without cause likened to rebelles. The credite ●f the apology.  Who contrive all reformations among themselves being most of all to be reformed, do what them list, and will be judged by none other, but themselves. All things considered your book must needs be of small credite, and appear to be not an apology, but rather a railing invective, or a famous libel, such as might be made under a hedge, and cast abroad for any body to take up. Of all things in it, that only is most orderly done, that it is set forth without the princes privilege, though the same be unlawful. For great shane had it ben any such to be authorized by public privilege.  

The partes and foundations of the defenders doctrine contained in their apology.  Ye yield up this book( ye say) to th'end the world may see the partes and foundations of your doctrine, in the behalf whereof so many good men haue little regarded their own lives. Whether they were good men or no, that must be judged not by their death, but by the cause of their dying. If the cause were nought, they could not be good. That they died for your doctrine, by such hote blood it is sealed up never a whit the surer, heretics blood is but a slipper matter to seal up the doctrine which a christen man ought to stand in. The like seal may be shewed and craked of by the Anabaptistes more then by your sect, and by the professors of sundry other heresies, as well as by your side. By that argument every heresy were true doctrine. For every heresy hath her bold champions, who will not stick to venture a joint for defence of the same, specially where any hope is of vain glory. As the devils having by our lords permission entred into the swine, 
Marc. 5.  which the gospel speaketh of, drove them into the sea and drowned them: so by like permission entering into the hartes of heretics quiter forsaken of the holy ghost for pride and other sins, they drive them unto the fire and other kindes of death, to be sure of them, and to enjoy their company afterward more familiarly.  
But now ye promise to make answer to the things that be laid against you, 
The defenders promise.  and to show the partes and foundations of your doctrine, and that to thende the world may see all. And this do ye promise to do truly and openly. Wherefore the world will look that ye deal plainly and uprightly, and that ye halt not. Though now we can not let you to play, yet we doubt not, but when your cards shall be cast abroad, we shall show to the whole board your false play, and that ye be far from the game. Only we require you for your part, 
A reasonable request made to the defenders.  to lay abroad your cards plainly, and after the lawe of the game, without couching one carded under an other, and that ye keep back none, but be content every ase to be sene and told. If ye haue made any new laws within yourselves contrary to those that haue ben and be used generally and every where: it is not reason the same should bind us, we will stand to the old lawe of the game. For the lookers on, we will not them to be busiest in pronouncing iudgement, that stand farthest of and see least: but to give credite to those that stand nearer, and see every card, and understand best what belongeth to the game.  
And although S. jerome would haue no body to be patient when he is suspected of heresy, 
apology  yet we will deal herein nether bitterly nor brablingly, nor yet be carried away with anger and heat, though he ought to be reckoned neither bitter nor brabler that speaketh the truth. We willingly leave this kind of eloquence to our aduersaries, who what so ever they say against us, be it never so shrewdly or despitefully said; yet think it is said modestely and comely enough, and care nothing whether it be trew or false. we need none of these shifts which do maintain the truth.  
I see well, we must look to your fingers. 
Confutation.  Ye speak of faire play, and yet use ye foul play. Ye show us bread in one hand, and hold a ston in the tother. 
They promise swetnes and performs bitterness.  Ye will not deal bitterly with us, neither with anger and heat, yet ye spit forth your gaull and choler by and by at the first. As here ye promise sweetness, and offer us bitterness: so through your whole book i● word ye pretend truth, zeal, plainness, and sober dealing, but in dede power out little other then lies, spite, scoffs, and immoderat railing. This much ye say of the maner of your dealing in this cause. Whether side useth that kind of eloquence which ye reprove, your demeanour doth the world sufficiently to understand.  

apology  Further, yf we do new it plain that Gods holy gospel, the ancient Bishops and the primitive church do make on our side, and that we haue not without just cause left these men, and rather haue returned to the Apostles and old catholic Fathers. And if we shall be found to do the same not colourably or craftily, but in good faith, before God, truly, honestly, clearly and plainly: and if they themselves which fly our doctrine and would be called Catholiks shall manifestly see how all those titles of antiquity whereof they bos●e so much, ar quiter shaken out of their hands, and that there is more pith in this our cause then they thought for, we then hope and trust that none of them will be so negligent and careless of his own salvation, but he will at length study and bethink himself, to whether parte he were best to join him. undoubtedly, except one will altogether harden his heart and refuse to hear, he shall not repent him to give good heed to this our defence and to mark well what we say, and how truly and justly it agreeth with Christian Religion.   

THE SEVENTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  If we on tother side show plainly, that the holy scriptures, the ancient fathers, examples and witnesses of the primitive church do make directly against your sects: 
A contrary condition proponed to the Defenders.  and that ye haue without any just cause forsaken the catholic church and joined yourselves to the synagogue of Antichrist: If ye shall be found to work your feat, whereunto ye give the name of the gospel colourably and craftily, not in good faith, not as before God, but to serve the stage ye haue begun to play your tragedy on, falsely, shamefully, darkly, and guilefully: if they themselves that haue embraced your gospel and would be called gospelers, shall clearly see, in case they haue eyes to see, how all your cracks of Gods holy gospel and high promises of truth be found vain, and that there is not so much pith, substance, and grounded proof in your matters, as your great brags and promises haue caused men to look for at your hands: we then hope and trust that yourselves, or at least many of you will not wholly cast away from you the care of your salvation, but will study by what honest and godly means ye may revoke your errors and heresies, return to the catholic church again, and avoid everlasting damnation. But if the devill haue you so fast bound, as ye will not hereby be loosed out of his bands, yet we doubt not but many reading this confutation of your book, through Gods grace shall take great benefit thereby, the beguiled to repent, the wavering to be stayed, the sound and whole, to beware of your contagious poison. Assuredly who so ever will not of purpose close their eyes, stop their ears, harden their hartes, and refuse to red or hear: it shall not repent them diligently to peruse this confutation, and with good aduise to weigh and consider what here is said in defence of the catholic religion, how truly this new clergys doctrine is disproved touching belief, and how justly their slanders be refeled touching manners, or at lest reasonably answered.  
For where they call us heretics, it is a crime so heinous, 
apology  that unless it may be seen, unless it may be felt, and in manner may be holden with hands and fingers, it ought not lightly to be judged or believed when it is laid to the charge of any Christian. For heresy is a forsaking of salvation, a renouncing of Gods grace, a departing from the body and spirit of christ.  
The definition ye seem to make of heresy, is not sufficient. 
Confutation. The Defenders definitio● of heres●● found● insufficient.  For as ye define it, so every deadly sin is heresy. For every deadly sin is a forsaking of salvation, a renouncing of Gods grace, a departing from the body and spirit of Christ. heresy is a false doctrine against the right belief by him that professeth the faith stubbornly either avouched, 
The true definition of heresy.  or called in doubt. In which definition this word stubbornly is added, because it is not error only in those things that be of faith, but stubbornes in error, that maketh an heretic, as S. Augustine teacheth. 
Lib. 18. de civit. Dei. cap. 51.  Who( saieth he) in the church of Christ saver any thing that is vnholesom and crooked, if being sharply admonished to saver that is hole and right, they resist stubbornly, and will not amend their venomous and deadly doctrines, but stand to defend them, 
The Defenders justly called heretics.  they be heretics. Now because we hear, see, and in maner feel with our fingers, that ye, the new clergy of England saver sundry unwholesome and wrong things touching faith, and avouch stubbornly false doctrines against the catholic faith, as hereafter we shall prove, and having ben admonished thereof will not amend, but persist to defend the same: We haue just cause to call you heretics, be the crime never so heinous. Would God ye gave us not occasion thus to do. But now the lawe of upright dealing, specially in Gods cause so requiring, ye must pardon us, if, as among husbandmen we call a rak, a rak, a spade, a spade, a mattock, a mattock: so among divines, we call heresy, heresy, and likewise, falsehood, lying, slandering, craft, hypocrisy, apostasy, malice, blasphemy, every such crime, by his proper name without all glozing. Which if we did not, we should do injury to the truth. Thus doing for just causes sometimes, to wise men we ought not to seem to be moved with choler, nor to do beside christian modesty.  

apology  But this was ever an old and solemn propretye with them and their forefathers, yf any did complain at their errors and faults, and desired to haue true Religion restored, straight away to condemn such one for heretics, as men new fangled and factious. christ for no neither cause was called a Samaritan, but onely for that he was thought to haue fallen to a certain new Religion, and to be the author of a how sect. And Paul thapostle of christ, was called before the Iudges to make aunswere to a matter of heresy, and therfore he said: According to this way which they call heresy, I do woorshippe the God of my Fathers, 
Act. 24.  beleeuinge all things which be written in the law and in the Prophets.  
Ye should haue name them, or certain of them, 
Confutation.  whom our forefathers condemned for heretics, for new fangled and factious men, which complained of faults and errors, and fain would true religion to be restored. 
The Defenders predecessors.  If ye mean Huss, jerome of Prague, Wicklef, Amalrike, Abailard, the Apostolikes, Peterbrusians, Berengarians. Waldenses, Albingenses, image-breakers, or such the like, which ever found fault with the church in their time, and cried for a restoring of religion as though it had ben quiter lost, and would themselves haue the glory of it by bringing in their heresy in place of the catholic doctrine under the name of Gods word, which hath always ben the property of heretics, if I say, ye mean these, or any of these: we also call them heretics, and for such we condemn them.  
But Sirs ye forget yourselves foully. 
Contradiction found in the Defenders.  How agreeth this with that ye say hereafter often times, that the light of the truth was quiter put out, and that Luther and Zuinglius first brought the gospel abroad into the world? By you if there were any in our forefathers dayes, which complained of errors, and desired true religion to be restored: then was there in your opinion some light pardy, the gospel then was not first preached by Luther and Zuinglius. Well, would God this oversight were the worst point in your doctrine.  
Were it true that Christ was called a samaritan for the cause ye assign, thereof what conclude ye? we see where about ye go. Ye would seem to join with Christ, with Paul, and with the first christians. But truly they refuse your compainie. Ye would fain make it appear to the world, that being charged with the crime of heresy, ye sustain injury undeservedly, and with like innocency, as Christ and Paul did, and those persecuted christians of the primitive church. But we tell you, Christ was the true samaritan in dede, that is to say, 
Samaritan.  the keeper, as he that is keeper of mankind, and therefore he shunned not the name. Yet was he not a samaritan as the Iewes meant. 
John. 8.  Paul likewise,( who was not as ye say to speak properly called before the iudges to make answer to a matter of heresy) being accused to Felix by Tertullus that he was of the sect or heresy of the nazarenes( so were the christians first called) did not only not deny, 
Act. 24.  but openly confessed, that according to that way or state of life, which the Iewes called a sect or heresy, he worsshipped God. For it is to be considered that in those times the name of heresy 
heresy.  was not so infamous, as it may be judged by the place of the acts cap. 5, unless somewhat be added whereby it may be vnderstanded to be taken in rate of a 'vice, as, 1. Cor. 11. Galat. 5. so the word was then indifferent, and might be taken in good part or evil part. Tertullian useth it in good part, where speaking of the christians, 
Apologeti. cap. 21. Secta.  he calleth thē sectam, asect, into which latin word the greek word haeresis is turned. Now these examples of Christ, Paul, and the first christians, serve not to your defence. Christ was called of the Iewes a samaritan vnworthely after the sense of their thought. Ye are called heretics, worthily. Paul burdened with the name of heresy, for as much as thereby was signified the kind of life of those that believed in Christ, the word being indifferent, was honoured rather then reviled. And Tertullian calleth the Christian people a sect( as he might) without blemish or note of any evil. 
The imputing of heresy to the Defenders is no slander,  Your case is not like. For ye are charged with heresy, as it is taken in the worst part. For where as that greek word cometh of the verb that signifieth choosing, because each man chooseth that he liketh best, and heretics by choosing either make or receive a doctrine and heresy: ye having received doctrines contrary to the faith of the catholic church, 
Sundry devisers of the late heresies.  of which Luther hath made and devised some, Zuinglius some, calvin some, Wiklef some, Berengarius some, and other ancienter heretics some, and all by choice of their own wits and judgements, not by the prompting and teaching of the holy ghost: it followeth that ye are heretics, and that being of the world so called, ye are called by your deserved name.  
complain not therefore, when your seditious demeanour against the catholic church, your blasphemies against God, and other your outrages are in the presence of christen princes lamentably talked of: if their ears be filled with the sound of the terms, of schisms, sects and heresies. For such terms haue ye deserved to be sounded in the ears of all princes and of all christen men against you, to th'end those might correct you, these beware of you.  
But the more sore and outrageous a crime heresy is, 
apology.  the more it ought to be proved by plain and strong arguments, especially in this time, when men begin to give less credite to their words,& to make more diligent search of their doctrine then they were cannon-shot to do. 
a  For the people of God ar otherwyse instructed now then they were in times past, when all the Bysshopps of Romes 
b  sayings were allowed for gospel,& when all Religion did depend only vpon their authority. now a daies the holy scripture is abroad, the writinges of the Apostles and Prophets ar in print, whereby 
c  all truth and catholic doctrine may be proved, and all heresy may be disproved and confuted.   

THE EIGHT CHAPTER.  
Where ye require your heresy, 
Confut. The defenders heresies sufficiently and fully confuted already by sundry great clerckes.  for so much as it is so heinous a crime, by plain and strong arguments to be proved: it is not unknown how sufficiently and substantially that is performed already by men of excellent learning as well of this age, as of times past. Was not Berengarius the first author of your sacramentary heresy, by most plain and strong arguments confuted of Lanfrancus 
Lanfrancus.  bishop of canterbury, and Guimundus 
Guimundus  bishop of Auersa? were not the Peterbrusians so, whose heresy ye hold against the blessed sacrifice of the mass, 
Pet. Cluniacensis. Tho. Walden. B. F●sher.  of the learned Abbot Petrus Cluniacensis? was not Wickelf so of Thomas Walden a learned man of Enganld? Hath not Luther and Oecolampadius ben so confuted in our time of that holy and learned father bishop Fisher? Briefly haue not all the heretics of our dayes with all their monstrous opinions of many and sundry worthy clerkes in all christian regions by most evident and profound reasons, most plain testimonies of the fathers and ancient councils, most sure grounds and authorities of the holy scriptures ben refeled, confuted, and put to confusion, though not to silence? But what shal I speak of particular men, were they never so excellent, 
The how disproufe of the heresies of our time by our forefathers condemned is needles.  by whom they haue ben confuted, sith by public sentence of the church they haue ben condemned both in general and provincial councils? Therefore we think it not needful now again to prove your doctrine so sufficiently condemned, to be heresy. For so should we seem to derogat the learning of so many excellent clerkes, the iudgement of our grave and holy forefathers, and thauctoritie of the church. Yet what we haue here performed, let it be judged by those that can judge.  
a That the people be now otherwise instructed, then they were in times past, we confess. But whether better now, then in our forefathers dayes, they that can consider the lives of them now, and of them that were then, may easily judge. If the three be known by the fruit it beareth, we must needs think the old trees planted by our forefathers better then the young trees, which be of your planting.  
b The sayings of the bishop of Rome were never allowed for the gospel. His private sayings and common talk might be erroneous, nolesse then other mennes. But what he said by way of iudgement and sentence definitive in doubtful 
In what case the Popes sayings ar to be taken for truth. luke. 22.  points touching religion, such sainges of Peters successor, for whom Christ prayed, that his faith might not fail, and who was commanded by Christ to strengthen his brethren: we take for truth, and the same obediently receive. So the fathers assembled in council at Chalcedon received and agreed to the saying and writing of Pope lo, nolesse then if Peter the Apostle and first bishop of Rome himself had spoken. The Popes authority we aclowledge supreme above all other authority in earth touching the government of the church, yet was it never said ne thought by the catholics, that all religion depended only thereon, as your slanderous report beareth men in hand.  
c If it be as ye say that all truth and catholic doctrine may be proved, and all heresy disproved and confuted by the holy scriptures that be now a dayes abroad: then doubt we not by gods grace, but to prove the doctrine of the catholic church by you in this apology in many points impugned, and all your heresies in the same uttered, plainly to disprove and confute. wherein not withstanding we will use such helps besides the express scriptures, as yourselves do not ne can not deny vs. Which are the expositions of the scriptures, that the holy ghost hath taught the church, and the ancient fathers haue set forth in writing.  
sithence then they bring forth none of these for themselves, 
apology  and call us never the less heretics, which haue neither fallen from Christ nor from the Apostles, nor yet from the prophetes, this is an injurious and a very spiteful dealing.  
Nay Sirs ye shall not so carry away the conclusion with a lie. 
Confutation.  But contrariwise sithence we bring forth many scriptures for the truth which ye impugn, as yourselves shall see, when we come to confute your doctrine, which here followeth, and sithence notwistanding that ye will not yield to the scriptures, but pervert the true meaning of them with gloses and interpretations of your own heads, frame new opinions contrary to that ye haue received, and that the church hath ever taught: the catholics will still call you heretics, and the church will condemn you for heretics, and so account you until ye recant and repent. And therein shal their dealing towards you be neither injurious, neither spiteful. Amend your fault, and yourselves will judge the same.  

That the defenders be fallen from Christ.  But ye haue not fallen from Christ, ye say, nor from the Apostles, nor yet from the Prophetes. As though they that depart from the roman church, which is the catholic church, which diuers times in the apology ye confess: fell not from Christ, and consequently from the Apostles and Prophetes. 
Matth. 18.  saith not Christ in the gospel, He that heareth not the church, let him be to thee as an heathen and a publican? saith he not also, 
luke. 10.  he that despiseth you, despiseth me? Hethens and Publicans cleave not to Christ, who so ever despiseth Christ, is fallen from Christ. sithence then ye hear not the church, but persecute the church, sithence ye despise the church: how are ye not fallen from Christ? And if ye be fallen from Christ, ye may be sure, ye can not hang by the Apostles, nor by the Prophetes. For when ye are gone from Christ, they will sone shake you of.  

apology  With this sword did christ put of the devil when he was tempted of him: with these adjoins ought all presumption which doth advance itself against God, to be ouerthrowen and conquered. 
2. Tim. 3.  For al Scripture, saith S. paul, that cometh by the inspiration of God, is profitable to teach, to confute, to instruct, and to reprove, that the man of God may be perfect and thoroughly framed to every good work. Thus did the holy Fathers alway fight against the heretics with none other force then with the holy scriptures.   

THE ninth CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  That Christ drove away the devill alleging scripture, that with scripture devilish presumptions be to be vanquished, that scripture is profitable to those things which S. Paul speaketh of to Timothe, we confess. 
2. Tim. 3.  But that the holy fathers did evermore fight against the heretics with none other force, then with the holy scriptures, that we deny. And how reasonably, and vpon how good grounds we deny it, judge yourselves. Or if ye will not give sentence against your own selves, the matter being never so evident: let your friends judge. For what did the fathers in the first general council holden at Nice? 
That the fathers haue fought against heretics with other force, then with holy scriptures only. Homou●●  did they fight against Arius and the maintainers of his heresy with no other force, then with the scriptures? When those heretics refused the word Homousion, whereby is significed the son of God to be of one and the same substance with God the father, for that it was not to be found in the scriptures, besides which they stiffly denied, as ye do, that any thing ought to be received: did not the catholic byshops on tother side fly to the ancient fathers? Did they not appeal to the judgements of those fathers, which had given sentence of the matter then being in controversy before that Arius and those that held of his side were born? And thereupon was it not in that council by those fathers pronounced, though the Arians cried against it in vain, that the son rightly and truly is name Homousios, that is consubstantial, or of the same substance with the father? This matter is so evident, as no man with the opinion of mean learning may seem to doubt of it.  
In the second council assembled at Constantinople, were not the heretics of sundry sects by a witty and a godly policy contrived between Nectarius the bishop and Theodosius the Emperour, 
Histor. tripart. lib. 5. Cap. 10.  through the suggestion of the great clerk Sisinnius, driven to receive the doctors, who lived before their heresies were heard of, as witnesses of true christian doctrine worthy of credite? Though sundry of those heretics did what they could, that the fathers authority might take no place, but that all should be determined by express scriptures: yet did not the catholic bishops in that council for conclusion of their greatest matter follow the doctrine of the fathers? 
Macedoni{us}  Macedonius in that council was condemned, who therefore denied the holy ghost to be God, because the scriptures give not unto him that name. But the bishops there assembled, 
In epist. ad Michaelem Bulgariae principem  as Photius that learned bishop writeth, declared out of the teaching of the fathers and divines before their time, that the holy Ghost is to be adored, worshipped, and glorified, as being of one nature and substance together with the father and the son.  
In the third council kept at Ephesus, Nestorius 
Nestorius.  was condemned, because he presumed to divide Christ into two persons, saying one was bare man, the other God only. For which cause he was content to name the blessed virgin Mary Christiparam, the mother of Christ, as though she had brought forth Christ a bare man: but would not name her Deiparam, the mother of God, lest she should be thought to haue brought forth also God. 
Nestorius ever called for scripture, as the heretics at this day do, what so ever sect they be of.  This heretic Nestorius boasted, as ye do, of the scriptures, saying they were of his side, and would neither speak, nor hear ought, but scriptures, scriptures. And alleging a place or two out of the gospel, where Marye is called the mother of Iesus, stoutly, find me in all scripture,( quoth he) where Marye is called the mother of God. Hereto what said that holy and learned bishop Cyrillus chief in that council? 
Epist. 1. Tomi. 4. Deipara not found in scripture, yet received and kept  Hanc nobis fidem divini tradidere discipuli,& licet nullam fecerint dictionis huius mentionem, itae tamen sentire à sanctis patribus edocti sumus. This faith( saith he) the disciples of God haue by tradition left unto vs. And although they haue made no express mention of this word( Deipara) yet so to think we haue ben taught of the holy fathers. Lo this holy father fighteth against the heretic Nestorius with the doctrine of the old fathers, that is, with other force, then with the holy scriptures. When they reasoned about rules touching faith to be made( saith Vincentius Lirinensis writing of that council) to all the bishops there assembled to the number almost of two hundred, this seemed most catholic, most faithful, and best to be done, that the sentences of the holy fathers should be brought forth among them: to th'end that by their consent and decree the religion of the old doctrine should be confirmed, and the blasphemy of the profane novelty condemned. Behold sirs what weapons the fathers haue used against heresies, besides the holy scriptures.  
In the fourth council which was celebrated at Chalcedon, Eutyches 
Eutyches.  was condemned, who denied two natures to be in Christ. This heretic Eutyches, as ye and all heretics haue done, craked much of the scriptures, and required his matter to be discussed by scriptures, 
Eutyches claimed his opinion to be tried by the scriptures.  tell me( quoth he mockingly to every one that reasoned with him) in what scripture lie the two natures? The scriptures haue not taught me the●e two natures, of the scriptures I haue learned no such thing. So he claimed to be tried by the scriptures, and refused the judgements of the old doctors. But let us hear what the learned bishops of that council said thereto. We find in the first action of the council, that they cried out aloud, 
The teaching of the fathers to be kept. Action. 5.  Ea quae sunt patrum têneantur. The things that the fathers haue taught, let them be kept. again when they come to the definitive sentence, they say. Sequentes igitur sanctos patres &c. following the holy fathers we do all with one accord teach men to confess one and himself the son our Lord Iesus Christ, perfit himself in godhead, and perfit himself in manhood. And for authority of the fathers in high points of faith a bishop in that reverent assembly name eudoxus pronounced a notable sentence saying thus. 
A notable saying of a learned father for thexposition of the fathers.  every one that consenteth not to the exposition of the holy fathers, doth alienate himself from all priestely communion, and from the presence of Christ. Thus we haue alleged the four first general councils, which S. gregory honoureth as the four gospels, for proof of that ye deny, that the fathers haue oftentimes fought against heretics with other force, then with the holy scriptures only. It were not hard to prove the same by example of S. Ambrose, S. jerome, and other doctors, and of other councils that were after the four first: but the thing being so evident as it is, and so well known even to yourselves, if ye be learned: the authority of these chief councils may suffice.  

apology De unitate Eccl. ca. 3. Et contra Maximinum Arrianorum Episcop. li. 3. Cap. 14. Confutation. S Augustines place alleged by the defenders discussed.  S. Augustine when he disputed against Petilian an heretic of the Donatistes: Let not these words, quod he, be heard betwen us: I say, or, you say: let us rather speak in this wise: thus saieth the Lord: there let us seek the church, there let us bolt out the cause.  
Concerning this place of S. Augustine, it ought not to be stretched to all matters in general, that be in question, as though we might not use the testimonies and authorities of the fathers against heretics: but it pertaineth only to the question in that book de unitate Ecclesiae treated of, which is, where the church is. Petilian the Donatist and the maintainers of that heresy contended the church to be only in afric, or at the furthest in parte Donati, among them only that held with Donatus. The same heresy went they about to prove by scriptures. But when S. Augustine saw how weak their proofs were, which they brought out of the scriptures, he provoked them, the better to euerthrow them, to come to the trial of the scriptures. And in dede where the scriptures be manifest for proof of any matter, what need is there of doctors? 
Where thexpositions of the fathers be necessary, Augustine allegeth the fathers.  But where the sense of the scriptures is obscure, and may be wrested by evil wits to the maintenance of an heresy: there the expositions of the fathers by all old writers haue ben taken of necessity to supply the scriptures obscurity, and to declare the sense of the church, which the holy ghost hath prompted. And in such cases S. Augustine himself useth the testimonies of the fathers not seldom, namely against julian the Pelagian. Where beside scripture touching original sin, he allegeth against the Pelagians a great number of fathers, and at length in one place speaking of thauctoritie, reverence, and credite he had them in, he saith thus. Quod credunt, credo: 
Conteà justorum Pelagian. li. 1.  &c. what they believe, I believe: what they hold, I hold: what they teach, I teach: what they preach, I preach. In that work before he nameth the fathers, whose words he intended to allege against the Pelagians, he commendeth their authority, 
Libr. 1. cap. 2.  as it were with a short preface. I will not( saith he) rehearse the sayings of all touching this matter, but I will put a few of a few, by which nevertheless our gainsayers shal be driven to blushy and yield, if there be either any fear of God or shane of men in them, that may overcome so misheuous wilfulness. 
How much S. Augustin esteemed the fathers.  In the second book against the same julian having alleged the ancient doctors for the truth, this haue we proved( saith he) by thauctoritie of the catholic saints, etc. Then a little after there. For they are such and so worthy men, which avouch these things to be true, that your brittle and shrill novelty will shiver in pieces by thonly authority of them. And there eftsoons he requireth julian in them to fear not them, but him, 
He feareth not god. by S. Augustin who contemneth the fathers.  who hath made them profitable vessels for his own use. Whereby he doth us tunderstand, that he feareth not God, who so ever despiseth thauctoritie of the holy fathers. What( saith he in an other place of that book) hath time so far mingled the highest things with the lowest, shall we say darkness is so become light, and light darkness, that Pelagius, Celestius, julianus haue eyes, and Hylary, Gregory, Ambrose be blind? Now to conclude touching the place alleged out of S. Augustine, though to thintent the Donatistes might best be confuted by provoking them to stand to the scriptures, S. Augustine refused to hear, I say thus, thow say●st thus, but required rather to hear, thus saith our lord: yet for decision of other questions, he is not against that we should use the testimonies of the fathers. From the special to the general negatively, the argument holdeth not, ye know, if ye haue not forgotten your logic. And besides that the place pertaineth only to that particular question, where the church is, he speaketh no word against thalleaging of the fathers, but against that the matter then in question should be discussed by his own sayings and Petilians sayings: and to that end only said, l●t us not hear, thus say I, thus sayest thou.  

apology  Lykewise S. jerome: All those things( saith he) which without the testimony of the scriptures are holden as delivered from the Apostles, 
In pri●●m caput Aggai. Confut. The defenders would fain remove us from all hel e to be taken against them of the fathers. All authority of the fathers removed, the trial of matters by scriptures wilbe doubtful, uncertain and contentious.  b● chroughly smitten down by the sword of Gods worde.  
Ye would fain remove us from a good hold I see well, which is the authority of the holy fathers, of ancient traditions, and of the universal church. All these would ye to be of no force against heretics. For ye know the fathers and the church to be against you, and that so long as they are believed, your doctrine shall not be received, as always found to be new, and of private devise. If we were driven from these, ye doubt not but to match us well enough in the scriptures. And as ye would handle the matter, I think so myself verily. For when all authority and iudgement of the fathers and of the church is shaken quiter of, in any controversy by whom shal we be tried? By the scriptures ye say. But when both ye and we allege scriptures to a contrary purpose, and when we varie about the sense of the scriptures, by whom then shal we be judged? When ye say, that is the mind of the scriptures, and we say, this is the mind of the scriptures: who shal strike the stroke between us? Is not in this case our yea, as good as your no, or contrariwise? Shall not thus our strife be endless? Perhaps ye will refer the iudgement of doubtful matters to the holy ghost. 
The vmpiership of the holy ghost in all controversies leadeth us to the church, and consequently to the fathers. joan. 14.  We refuse not tharbitrement and vmpiership of the holy ghost. For the same hath ben promised by Christ to the church, to remain with the church for ever, to teach what things so ever he said, to led men into all truth. Then is the truth to be found in the church, and to be learned of the church, of which church the holy fathers of all ages and places being the ministers, haue declared by their writings and witnessed the same. And thus for iudgement and trial of truth, we shal be returned to the church and to the fathers, by whom the holy ghost speaketh unto us, whose authority and due estimation ye go about to remove from vs.  
But let us see what force ye bring to drive us from this hold. Making your battery against it, what shoot ye of but wind and paper? Your artillery maketh a noyes, but it giveth no blow. As in the last allegation ye falsified the sense of S. Augustine, so in this ye falsefie both the sense and words of S. jerome. The words, as ye allege them, seem to be spoken against what so ever traditions of the Apostles. Which words or any the like to such purpose, were never uttered by any catholic doctor of the church, much less by S. jerome. look ye again and view better the place, ye shal say yourselves, that I find the fault of falsifying in you not without a cause.  
S. jerome in his commentaries vpon those words of the prophet Aggaeus, Et vocaui siccitatem supper terram, 
Aggaei. cap. 1.  & supper montes, I haue called the drought to come vpon the earth, and vpon the hills, &c: first showing the literal sense accordingly as the hebrew word there by him noted, signifieth siccitatem, 
{αβγδ} Siccitas.  drought, then treating mystically, as the seventy interpreters haue turned that word into romphaeam, 
{αβγδ} Glad●us.  that is, a sword, and understanding by the sword, the word of God: thereof taketh occasion briefly to say, what this sword doth, how it destroyeth the negligent soul, which is expounded to be dry earth, and how it plagueth montaines that lift up themselves against the knowledge of God, whereby he meaneth heretics. Of whom he telleth, how they flatter the deceived peoples with their bread, wine, and oil,( by which he meaneth their heresies) as it were with meats, and drink, and refection. Their bread( saith he) any man may very aptly call it, the bread of wailing, and their wine, the madness of dragons, and the madness of serpentes in curable. And their oil the promising of heavenly things, where with they do as it were anoint their disciples, and promise them rewards of their labours, 
Psal. 10 4. S. jerome falsified by the Defenders.  which the prophet detesteth saying, the oil of the sinner shall not anoint my head. After this follow the words of S. jerome which ye haue falsified, to thintent they might seem to serve your false meaning. said et alia quae absque authoritate et testimonijs scripturarum quasi traditione Apostolica sponte reperiunt atque confingunt, percutit gladius Dei. But the sword of God striketh also other things, which the heretics( for of them he speaketh) devise and fain of their own heads without the authority and witnesses of the scriptures, as though they came by tradition from the Apostles. He that compareth this place with your falsified allegation, may sone espy great odds between thē. For ye make S. jerome to say, that all those things which without the testimonies of the scriptures are holden( so your allowed interpreter turneth asseruntur) as delivered from the Apostles, be thoroughly smitten down by the sword of Gods word. By this sword of your Gods word ye would quiter smite down al apostolic traditions at a blow. But thanked be God, that your sword is a forged sword, a paper sword, a sword that neither with edge cutteth, nor with weight beareth down. S. jerome putteth not all things which we haue by tradition from the Apostles without the express scriptures to the sword of Gods word. He speaketh not generally. 
Hieromes place answered.  
jerome falsified.  His word is alia other things, and ye make it omnia al things. again he speaketh of such things as be devised and feigned by heretics of their own brain without authority and testimonies of the scriptures, unto which they give estimation as though they came by tradition from the Apostles. These circumstances and exaggerations do ye omit, and say, that S. jerome putteth all apostolic traditions to that dreadful sword of Gods word. Now what S. jerome saieth, we hold with it and allow it well. But your saying we refuse as falsely fathered vpon S. jerome. What he condemneth, we condemn. Neither can that place be justly alleged against vs. For we invent not ne fain not any things of our own accord or of our own heads as though they were delivered by the Apostles besides the scriptures, that is the part of heretics specially of the Tatians, 
Tatians.  as in that place S. jerome saieth. We find, devise, and fain nothing in the catholic religion. We do but keep and maintain things devised by the holy ghost, and left to the church by the Apostles, or by apostolic men, or by the general councils, 
jerome useth the authority of the fathers as of force against an heretic.  whose authority is in the church most healthful sayeh S. Augustine. But concerning the force which the consent of the fathers had in the iudgement of S. jerome, it appeareth in his epistle to evagrius. Where by the authority of the ancient doctors before his time he proveth against an heretic, that Melchisedech was a man of the land of Chanaan, and not the holy ghost.  
S. Ambrose also to Gratianus the Emperour: 
apology  Let the scripture( saith he) bee asked the question, let the Apostles be asked, let the Prophetes be asked, and let Christ be asked. For at that time made the catholic Fathers and bishops no doubt, but that our Religion might be proved out of the holy scriptures. Neither were they ever so hardy to take any for an heretic, whose error they could not evidently and apparently reprove by the self same scriptures. And we verily do make aunswere on this wise as S. Paul did: According to this way which they call heresy, we do woorship God and the father of our Lord Iesus Christ, and do allowe al things which haue ben written either in the law or in the Prophetes, or in the Apostles works.  

Confutation.  Gratian the Emperour addressing himself to go forth to war, besought S. Ambrose to draw him out a little book of faith, not concerning all the articles of our belief, but only touching the trinity, 
The faith of the trinity by diverse heretics impugned diversly before& in S. Ambrose time.  and specially the son of God. Which faith at those dayes was much impugned by heretics of sundry sects, but most of all other by Sabellius, 
Sabellius.  who confounded the Father and the Word, and avouched the Father and the son to be one and the same by Fotinus, 
Fotinus.  who contended the beginning of the son to be of the Virgin: by Arius, 
Arius.  who taught men to believe mo and unlike powers, and with heathenish error made mo Gods. Hereof S. Ambrose wrote five short books. Of which in the beginning of the first, after the prologue to the Emperour, he putteth the exposition of the catholic faith, following the agreeable doctrine of the three hundred and eighten bishops assembled in council at Nice, 
S. Ambrose place examined.  and declareth that there is one God. Then he setteth forth the heretical opinions which Arius had of the son of God, that he is unlike the Father, that he had beginning in time, that he is created, &c.  
Now buckling himself as it were to encounter with the heretic, at the first he giveth warning to all to beware of him, for that he endeavoureth to prove his false doctrine,( namely for the first point that the son is unlike the Father) Versutis disputationibus, with subtle and crafty reasoninges. He allegeth to that purpose S. Paul to the Colossians, 
Cap. 2.  cavete ne quis vos depraedetur per philosophiam. Beware that no man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, &c. For( saith he) these heretics put all the force of their poisons in logic, or dialecticall disputation, which by the opinion of Philosophers is defined not to haue power to prove, but an earnest desire to destroy and disprove. having given this wholesome warning, lest himself might seem to use that, which he counseleth others to beware of: to withdraw the Emperour and all other from the guylefull logic of Arius, at his first entry he saith. 
Ambros. de fide lib. 1. cap. 4.  I will not that thou give credite holy Emperour to argument and to our disputation,( then follow the words whereof the Defenders take hold), scripturas interrogemus, &c. Let us ask the scriptures, let us ask the Apostles, let us ask the Prophetes, let us ask Christ, what need many words? let us ask the Father, &c. By which words S. Ambrose meaneth, 
The Defenders place alleged out of S. Ambrose against thauthority of the fathers, answered.  that to haue a right belief of the son of God, whether he be like the Father, or unlike the Father, we should give ear to the plain testimonies of the scriptures, and not trouble our heads with the sophistry and subtle arguments of Arius. And to this point of our belief which is very high and secret, is that saying of S. Ambrose to be restrained. But that for confirmation of the truth in points which be nearer to common sense, and for confutation of those heresies which be of less subtility, of which sort these gospelers gross errors be, to this end that we ought not to use the testimonies of the holy fathers against heretics,( for which purpose they allege this place): S. Ambrose neither in all that book, neither in all his works speaketh so much as one word.  
But contrariwise in sundry places of that work he allegeth the authority of the Nicene council, 
S. Ambrose allegeth against heretics the authority of the fathers.  as a testimony of good force against the Arians, and declareth a divine mystery to haue ben signified by such special number of the fathers there assembled. In the eight chapter of that works first book, he bringeth against the heretics the fathers definitive sentence of the faith in that point, which is, that the son is God of God, light of light, true God of true God, born of the Father, not made, of one substance with the Father. For witness and proof of which doctrine he allegeth the authority of the fathers, saying, sic nempe nostri secundum scripturas dixerunt patres, even thus according to the scriptures, haue the fathers said, &c. In the next chapter he mentioneth the horrible curse anathema by the catholic and apostolic church extended against the Arian heretics. 
The inviolable authority of the fathers after the doctrine of S. Ambrose.  In the third book of that work de fide ad Gratianum. cap. 7. contrary to that meaning these defenders pretend him to be of, he saith thus. Seruemus praecepta maiorum, &c. Let us keep the precepts of our forefathers, neither with temeritie of rude boldness let us break the hereditary seals,( he meaneth the doctrine sealed by the fathers and left to the posterity as it were by heritage) which of us will be so eardy, as to vnseale the priestly book, sealed by the confessors, and now consecrated with the martyrdom of many a one? Lo hear ye not Sirs how much S. Ambrose is against you? And how say ye? If by him it be not lawful to violate and gainesaye the doctrine and tradition of the fathers,( for so much he meaneth by the seals and by the priestly book) then the same giveth force of good argument against heretics, which ye deny. In an other book which he entitled de fide orthodoxa contrà Arianos, what estimation he had of the fathers, and what force their authority hath against heretics in his iudgement, he signifieth not obscurely, where he joineth together the Euangelike and apostolic faith, 
Cap. 1.  and the tradition of the fathers, touching the name of substance in the matter of the trinity. 
The scriptures are to be asked concerning the mystery of the trinity, ergo the fathers ar not at all to be confuted: a foolish argument.  And though he say touching this mystery, let us ask the scriptures, Apostles, Prophetes, and Christ: yet thereby doth he not quiter exclude the fathers. He saith not let us reject the fathers. The scriptures and the fathers be not contrary, and therefore thallowing of them, is not the disallowing of these. Who so ever maketh this argument, which in your word is implyed, the scriptures are to be asked, ergo the holy fathers are not to be asked, maketh a foolish argument.  
Thus haue we answered your three places alleged out of the three holy doctors, Augustine, jerome, and Ambrose: and haue declared the same to serve the purpose ye went about to prove, no whit at all. And though for exposition of the scriptures and testimony of the truth, we use the authority of the fathers, yet do we not doubt, but our religion may be proved by the holy scriptures. As for the fathers whom ye allege, they esteemed not only them for heretics who denied the scriptures, but also all those, which went against the ancient traditions and the received sentence of the church, although by most manifest and express scriptures the same were not avouched. And because in sundry points ye contemn the sentence of the church, reject all traditions, and wrest many places of the scripture itself to the maintenance of your new doctrines: how so ever ye persuade yourselves to worship the Father of Iesus Christ, and to allow the lawe, the prophetes, and the Apostles: yet can ye not worthily seem to follow S. Paul as ye pretend.  
Wherefore if we be heretics, 
apology.  and they( as they would fain be called) be catholics, why do they not, as they see the fathers, which were catholic men, haue always done.   

THE TENTH CHAPTER.  
We do so. 
Confutation.  For they condemned those that went against the tradition of the fathers, and so do we.  
Why do they not convince and master us by the divine scriptures? 
apology Confutation. joan. 14.   
The scriptures consist not in yncke and paper, but in the sense. Which sense the holy ghost by Christes promise hath taught the church. The church declareth it to believers by the threatenings and writings of the fathers. Whom who believeth not agreeing generally in one, believeth not the scriptures, nor the holy Ghost author of the scriptures. To answer your demand. We do convince you by divine scriptures. But as ye reject the fathers, so ye refuse the sense of the scriptures, which the holy ghost hath taught, which the fathers haue declared, and which holy church holdeth, and devise a new of your own imagination, such as whereby ye may seem to defend your heresies. And then ye cry out lustily, that the catholics convince you not, nor master you by the divine scriptures.  

apology  Why do they not call us again to be tried by them?  

Confut. Haeresi. 61. Scripture needeth speculation. Tradition necessary, because scripture hath not all things. Recognit. lib. 10.  Epiphanius refuting the heretics which name themselves Apostolikes, saith, that the scriptures haue need of speculation( that is to wit, to be well studied and considered) to the end the force and power of every argument may be known. It behoveth us also( saith he) to use the tradition. For we can not haue all things of the holy scripture. Thus Epiphanius. By tradition without doubt he meaneth the sense and understanding received of the fathers. For that is the key of the word of God, as S. Peter taught, by report of S. Clement. This sense and understanding of the lawe had the ministers of the lawe to whom the traditions of Moses and of the elders came as it were by hands. Now we require you to admit this tradition, that is to say the catholic sense and understanding of the scriptures, which hath ben delivered unto us by the holy fathers of all ages and of all countries where the faith hath ben received. 
Contention endless, where tradition is rejected.  And then we will call you again to be tried by the scriptures. else if ye refuse the tradition that Epiphanius speaketh of, being without all balance to weigh our reasons and allegations with, what so ever we bring for the truth, ye will pervert it by your private interpretation. So for words we shal be answered with words, and no end shal be made of contention.  
Why do they not lay before us, 
apology  how we haue gone away from Christ, from the prophetes, from the Apostles, and from the holy fathers?  
This haue the catholics laid before you oftentimes, 
Confutation. luke. 10.  and this do we show you in this confutation. He that despiseth you, despiseth me, saith Ghrist of his church. Ye despise the catholic church, and therefore ye despise Christ. And if ye despise Christ, then are ye gone from Christ. If from Christ, then also from the Prophetes, from the Apostles, and from the fathers. And until ye return again, ye ought not to be heard not to be reasoned with all. But now whereas ye haue authority and may do what ye list, to save some of the people from your dangerous poison, we do what we may. Otherwise it were better to follow S. Pauls counsel to Tite. 
Tit. 3.  fly from one that is an heretic after the first and the second admonition. Vpon which place S. Ambrose saith, that heretics to thintent they may be inexcusable, are to be taken up with sharp admonition once. For if they be oftentimes so taken up, they will be made the readier to do evil. For he that oftentimes taketh them up, seemeth to compel them, to be warier and more careful to destroy a number.  
Why stick they to do it? why are they afraid of it? 
apology  It is Gods cause: whye are they doubtful to commit it to the trial of Gods worde? yf we be heretics which refer all our controversies unto the holy scriptures, and report us to the self same words, unchurch we grow were sealed by God himself, and in comparison of them set little by all other things whatsoever may be devised by men, how shall we say to these folk I pray you, what manner of men be they, and how is it meet to call them, which fear the iudgement of the holy scriptures, that is to say, the iudgement of God himself, and do prefer before them their own dreams, and full cold inventions: and to maintain their own traditions, haue defaced and corrupted now these many hundred yeares the ordinances of christ and of the Apostles?  
What need so many questions Sirs? 
Confutation.  Your hote rhetoric sheweth more courage in word, then victory in dede. Ye call us forth to the scriptures, as it were to the field. Ye strike us down with words, 
Great brags made by the defenders of thassurance of the scriptures.  before ye come to encounter. To show your bravery in the moustre ye refer your controversies unto the holy scriptures, ye report you to the words sealed by God himself: but we the catholics as ye pretend, stick at it, we be afraid of it, we doubt of the matter, we fear the iudgement of holy scriptures, we prefer our own dreams and cold inventions. Well, now that ye haue told your lusty tale, hear our sober answer. We tell you. We stick not at it. We be not afraid of it. But because it is Gods cause, we take aduise how to do it so, not as we may gete the mastery over you, but so as may be most to the glory of God and safety of the people, whose health ought to be dere unto vs. But forasmuch as the heretics of all ages haue confidently appealed to the scriptures, and haue much abused the scriptures to the promoting of their false doctrines, and thereby deceived many: as we refuse not the iudgement of the scriptures, so we require the true sense of the scriptures. Neither do the scriptures contain all things whereof doubt may rise, nor by the scriptures are many doubts discussed, if the letter be heard, 
Scriptures wickedly made to serve to evil meaning. joan. 7.  and the sense rejected. And oftentimes the true scriptures are stretched forth to serve evil and false purposes. The Iewes went about by the scriptures to prove that Christ was not so much as a prophet. For they said. search the scriptures, and see, that a prophet riseth not out of Galiley. By the scriptures they would needs show him worthy to die. 
joan. 19.  We haue a lawe, quoth they, and by our lawe he ought to die, because he hath made himself the son of God. The devill by alleging scripture would haue deceived our saviour himself, and said unto him. 
mat. 4. De fide. li. 8. cap. 1.  Scriptum est, it is written. The Arians were full of the scriptures, and by the same, as S. Ambrose writeth, went about to prove, that Christ the author of all goodness was not good, it is written, quoth they, 
Marc. 10.  Nemo bonus nisi vnus Deus. None is good but one God. Likewise, the Macedonians, the Nestorians, the Eutychians, and all other heretics( as is before said called for the scriptures, offered to be tried by the scriptures, and made awise as though they had ben sure of the scriptures.  
Now in this case yourselves doing the like, 
heretics that call so busily for the scriptures are to be confuted with the right sense of the scriptures declared by the fathers. Cap. vt supra. Lib. 2. de trinitate.  what may we do better, then honour the scriptures, and seek for their right sense and understanding? Scriptum est, it is scripture( saith S. Ambrose to the allegation of the Arians) I aclowledge, but the letter hath not the error, would God the Arians interpretation had not. A pices sine crimine sunt, sensus in crimine. The letters be without crime, the sense is in crime. From the understanding cometh heresy, not from the scripture, the sense not the word, becometh to be a crime, saieth S. Hilary. sithence then all standeth in the sense, let us agree first vpon the sense and interpretation of the scriptures, and then if we be not as ready as ye, come forth when ye list, upbraid us hardly, and say lustily as here ye do, why stick they to do it? why are they afraid of it?  
As for the true sense and interpretation of the scriptures, 
The true sense of scriptures is to be found in the catholic church. Matth. 28. I●an. 14. Esaia. 59.  where shall we find it, but as before we said, in the catholic church? The church having Christ remaining with it all dayes to the end of the world, having by promise of Christ the spirit of truth, remaining in it for ever, having by Gods own ancient promise both the words which the Father hath put in the mouth of Christ, and the spirit which he put in him, whereby it may understand the meaning of Gods words: we may not now seek for the true sense, understanding, and interpretation of the scriptures any where, but in the church. Your own doctor John calvin himself, 
In epist. ad Hebraos.  whom ye follow and esteem so much, admonisheth very well, and saith, 
The sense of the scriptures which the holy ghost hath taught the church being admitted to the decision of controversies, the Defenders and their felowes will be found the weaker side. Instit. c. 18 Act. 2.  it is specially to be noted, that out of the church there is no light of the sound understanding of the scriptures. This ground being laid, on which each part must stand and be tried in, crow no more against us, boast yourselves no more, we fear not the iudgement of the holy scriptures. Nay it is yourselves that fear this iudgement. For your own conscience telleth you, that on this ground ye are the weaker side. If ye stand with us on this ground, ye shall never be able to defend your master John Caluines doctrine touching baptism, which he maketh to be of so little force, against the manifest scripture, Let every one of you( saith S. Peter) be baptized in the name of Iesus Christ, to remission of sins. keeping this ground ye shall be born from your doctrine touching absolution, denying the priest to haue power to absolve penitents by his priestly authority, but by preaching the gospel to them, contrary to the plain scripture, whose sins ye forgive, they are forgiven to them, 
joan. 20.  whose ye retain, they are retained. If ye refuse not this ground, ye shall be forced to restore the sacrament of extreme unction, 
Extreme unction.  and the use of holy oil again, which ye haue abandoned. For what haue ye to say against the scripture, 
jacob. 5.  Is any sick among you? Let him cause the priestes of the church to come in to him, anointing him with oil, in the name of our Lord? abiding in this ground, ye shall be driven to forsake your zwinglian doctrine which putteth signs and figures only in the sacrament of the altar for the the true and real body of Christ there present, contrary to the clear scripture, 
mat. 26.  this is my body. Being on this ground ye shall sone give over the maintenance of the doctrine of your special faith, and of your justification by faith only, as being contrary to the plain scripture, 
jacob. 2.  Man is justified by works, and not by faith only. To conclude,( for to show in how many points ye may be confuted by evident scriptures it were in maner infinite) if ye will admit this for a good ground, as ye must needs admit: then shall ye not maintain the presumptuous doctrine of your certainty of grace and salvation, contrary to that S. Paul counseleth, 
Philip. 1.  with fear and trembling work your salvation.  
Men say that Sophocles the tragical Poet, 
apology.  when in his old dayes he was by his own sons accused before the Iudges for a dotinge and sottishe man, as one that fondelye wasted his own substance, and seemed to need a governor to see unto him: to thintent he might clear himself of the fault, he came into the place of judgement, and when he had rehearsed before them his Tragedye called Oedipus Coloneus, which he had written at the very time of his accusation, marvelous exactly and cunningly, did of himself ask the Iudges, whether they thought any sottish or doting man could do the like piece of work.  
The comparison which ye make between yourselves and Sophocles, gladly we admit. 
Confutation.  Yet we aclowledge that as in many respects ye are like, so in some unlike. 
The Defenders compare themselves to Sophocles.  Sophocles was a poet, that is to say, a fainer, and deviser of things that be not true, but fabulous. Ye also are fainers, and devisers of novelties, and followers of new devises, that be false. Sophocles was a tragical poet, ye are tragical divines. A tragedy 
A tragedy.  setteth forth thouerthrowes of kingdoms, murder of noble personages, and other great troubles, and endeth in woeful lamentations. 
Theffect of the how gospel.  Your gospel invadeth Christes heavenly kingdom the church, it murdereth souls bought with a most dere price, it causeth a hellish garboil in mennes consciences, in the end it bringeth to everlasting weeping and gnasshing of teeth. Sophocles was accused of his unkind sons, ye are accused of your fathers, of your brethren, of your mother, who love you most tenderly and with unspeakable grief of hart bemoan your case. Sophocles in his old dayes, ye in your young dayes. 
The new English church is not yet come to the yeres of discretion.  For your english church hath not yet fulfilled the age, or number of those yeres, which we call the yeres of discretion. He for a doting and a sottish man, ye for making infinite numbers of men to dote and to be sottes. He for wasting his own substance, ye both for spoiling of others outward substance, and robbing of their spiritual treasures. He rehearsed his cunning tragedy for proof that he doted not, before the lawful iudges of his country. Ye fly from al lawful iudgement, ye show not your faces where ye ought, and having written in a corner this invective or famous libel, giving it name of an apology: without due order cast the same abroad, offering your cause to be examined and judged by the temeritie of the common multitude.  

apology  In like manner, because these men take us to be mad, and appeach us for heretics, as men which haue nothing to do neither with CHRIST, nor with the church of GOD, we haue judged yt should be to good purpose, and not unprofitable, yf we do openly and frankly set forth our faith wherein we stand, and show all that confidence which we haue in christ IHESV, to the intent all men may se what is our iudgement, of every parte of Christian religion, and may resolve with themselves, whether the faith which they shall see confirmed by the words of Christ, by the writinges of the Apostles, by the testimonies of the catholic Fathers, and by the examples of many ages, be but a certain rage of furious and mad men, and a conspiracy of heretics. This therefore is our belieffe.  

Confutation.  We take you not to be mad. Would God, ye were not worse then mad. Were ye mad, ye should be tied up. else were ye suffered to go abroad, for fear, folk would fly from you. And then should ye do little hurt. Now whiles ye offer venomous kisses with sugared lips, whiles ye cover wolvish cruelty under lambs skins, whiles ye hurt under pretence of benefit, wound under colour of a medicine, beguile unstable souls with resemblance of truth: neither stinte ye to work mischief, nor others can beware of you. But because ye imagine yourselves to be taken for mad, and drunken with the poisoned cup of heresy, ye haue thought good openly and frankly to set forth the faith ye profess. 
every part of Christen religion is not treated in the apology.  Where ye say this to haue ben your intent, that all men may see what is your iudgement of every part of christian religion, that can not they see, because as your new religion, shuneth many partes of christian religion, so in this your new gospel book they be not to be sene. If it were possible men might evidently see your peculiar faith confirmed by the words of Christ, by the writings of the Apostles, by the testimonies of the catholic fathers, and by the example of many ages, as ye say: they would not say that it were a certain rage of furious and mad men, nor a conspiracy of heresy. But if we shall prove and show that it is not so confirmed in dede, but contrariwise that it is repugnant to the holy scriptures, to the tradition of the church, to the doctrine of the holy fathers, and to the examples of the primitive church, and of the church of these last thousand yeres: then we doubt not but the same shall appear to all men as it is, not faith but infidelity, not truth, but lying, not the gospel, but heresy, not religion, but confusion.   
The end of the first Part.   

THE SECOND PART.  

apology  WE believe that there is one certain nature and divine power, which we call God: and that the same is divided into three equal persons, into the Father, into the son, and into the holy ghost, and that they al be of own power, of one majesty, of one eternity, of one godhead, and of one substance. And although these three persons be so divided, that neither the Father is the son nor the son is the holy Ghost or the Father, yet nevertheless we beleeue that there is but one very God. And that the same one God hath created heaven and earth, and al things contained under heaven.  
we believe that IESVS christ the only son of the eternal Father( as long before it was determined before all beginnings) when the fullness of time was come, did take of that blessed and pure Virgin, both flesh and all the nature of man, that he might declare to the world the secret and hide will of his father: which will had ben laid up from before all ages and generations. And that he might full finish in his humane body the mystery of our redemption, and might fasten to the cross our sins, and also that hand writinge which was made against vs.  
We believe that for our sake he dyed, and was butted, descendyd into hell, the third day by the power of his godhead returned to life and rose again, and that the fourtyth day after his surrection, whiles his Disciples beheld and looked upon him, he ascendid into heaven, to fulfil all things, and did place in majesty and glory the self same body whervvith he was born, 
August. tract. 50. in johan.  wherein he lived on earth, wherein he was jested at, wherein he had suffered most painful torments and cruel kind of death, wherein he rose again, and wherein he ascendid to the right hand of the Father, above all rule above all power, all force, all Dominion, and above every name, which is name not only in this worlde, but also in the worlde to come. 
Acto. 3.  And that there he now sittteh, and shall sit, till all things be full perfetted. And although the majesty and godhead of Christ be every wheare abundantly dispersed, 
In Epi. ad Dardanum.  yet we beleeue that his body, as S. Augustine saieth, must needs be still in one place: and that Christ hath given majesty unto his body, but yet hath not taken away from it the nature of a body: and that we must not so affirm Christ to be God, 
Contra E uticen. li. 1.  that we deny him to be man: and, as the Martyr Vigius saith, that Christ hath left us as touching his humane nature, but hath not left us as touching his divine nature, 
Fulgent. ad Thrasimundum.  And that the same Christ, though he bee absent from us concerning his manhood, yet is ever present with us concerning his godhead.  
From that place also we believe that Christ shall come again to execute that general iudgement, aswel of them whom he shall then finde alive in the body, as of them that be already dead.  

THE FIRST CHAPTER.  
IN our fathers dayes before any change in religion was thought vpon, 
Confutat●on. unity of the church in our fathers dayes. Act. 4.  Christen people lived together in perfit unity. Touching faith they had all nolesse then they of the Apostles time one heart and one soul. As all worshipped one God, professed one baptism, and restend in one church, so made they confession of one faith. And as in points of belief their saying was one, their iudgement was one, their mind was one: right so would they be called by one general name, all Christians, all catholics, all children of the catholic church. If account of belief had ben demanded, none was ashamed of the common Apostles creed. 
Apostles creed.  every one constantly confessed, I believe in God the father almighty maker of heaven and earth, and in Iesus Christ, and so forth. But sithence Luther brought a new gospel into the world, 
diversity in religion.  we haue sene great diversity among men not only of ceremonies and administration of the sacramentes, but also of the public confession of faith. For as sundry rulers, countries, and common weals received that new doctrine: so their preachers and ministers haue set forth sundry creeds and confessions of their faith. Which although in many things agree with the truth, yet in some weighty points they disagree and vary both from the faith of Christes catholic church, and within themselves one from an other. 
diverse Confessions of faith.  Such are the confessions of Auspurg, of Zurich, of Wittenberg, of Osianders sect, of the Anabaptistes, of the Zuenckfeldians, of the pretensed reformed churches of france, of Scotland, and now this of the English church. This case seemeth to godly and wise men perilous and lamentable in our time, 
Lib. ad Constantium Aug.  as the like seemed to S. Hilary in his time. Who complaining thereof, Now a dayes, there be( saith he) so many faiths, as there be wills, 
S. Hilaries complaint of many faiths.  so many doctrines, as there be manners: so many causes of blasphemies spring up, as there be vices: whiles faiths either are so written as we list, or so vnderstanded as we list. And whereas there is but one God, 
one God, one faith.  one lord, one baptism, and according thereto one faith: we step aside from that which is the only faith, and whiles mo faiths be made, they begin to come to that point, that there be no faith at all.  
But what fault find ye in this confession of our faith, saith this defender. Sire the first part of your confession, wherein ye utter your belief touching the trinity, containeth true and catholic doctrine. Where the thing ye treat of is not in controversy between you and us, and where ye speak not with affection to overcome, we grant sometimes ye utter truth. 
The maner of utterance of the defenders faith strange to Christen ears.  But the maner of the utterance of your faith is strange to Christen ears, who haue ben accustomed to hear, Credo in deum, Credo in jesum Christum, Credo in Spiritum sanctum. I believe in God, I believe in Iesus Christ, I believe in the holy ghost. That other form of words which you use, soundeth not so christian-like. I believe there is a God, I believe that Iesus Christ is the son of the father. I believe that the holy ghost is God. Although this form of words do express a right faith, yet being such as may be uttered by devils, and hath always ben uttered by heretics their ministers: 
The old form of the creed more convenient then that of the defenders. jacob. 2.  the ancient and holy fathers haue liked better the old form and maner, after which every Christen man saith, I believe in God, I believe in Iesus Christ, I believe in the holy ghost. For this importeth a signification of faith with hope and charity, that other of faith only, which the devils haue and tremble, as S. james saith, wherein as in many other things these defenders resemble them. S. Augustine in sundry places putting a difference between these two forms of words, vpon S. John alleging S. Paules words, 
Rom. 3. In joan. tract. 20. To believe in God, what is it.  To one that believeth in him who justifieth the wicked, his faith is imputed to righteousness, demandeth, what is it to believe in him? It is by his answer. Credendo amarc, cred●ndo diligere, credendo in eum ire,& eius membris incorporari, with believing to love him, with believing to go into him, and to be incorporate in his members, that is, to be made a member of his body. In an other place he saith speaking of Christ. 
De verb. domini. Serm. 61. To believe in Christ, and to believe that Christ is, betwen both is great difference.  It forceth much whether a man believe that he is Christ, and whether he believe in Christ. For the devils believed that he was Christ, neither for all that believed the devils in Christ. For he believeth in Christ, who both trusteth in Christ, and loveth Christ. For if he haue faith without hope and love, he believeth that Christ is, he believeth not in Christ. So he that believeth in Christ, with believing into him shall Christ come, and by some mean he is united unto him, and is made a member in his body. Which can not be done, except there come also both hope and charity. Thus S. Augustine. The same doctrine he uttereth writing vpon the 77. psalm.  
As this defender proceedeth in declaring the belief of his new English church, 
The article of Christes Ascension much grated vpon by the defenders to evil purpose.  he grateth much vpon the article of Christes ascension, as the maner is of all zwinglians to do. For their mind giveth them thereby they shall be able to bring at lest many of the simpler fort to their sacramentary heresy, and to think that the body of Christ, wherein he ascended into heaven and sitteth at the right hand of the Father, is so absent from earth, as it may not be believed to be here present in the sacrament of the altar. Thereto he allegeth S. Augustine making him to say, 
In joan. tract. 30. Oportet for potest.  that Christes body wherein he rose again, must needs be stil in one place. In which treatise that holy father hath not the word oportet, that is, must needs as this defender allegeth, but this word potest, that is, may, as the books haue that be not corrupted by the maintainers of that heresy. And whereas he saith ad Dardanum alleged by this defender, though Christ hath given majesty unto his body, yet he hath not taken away from it the nature of a body: this is not to be stretched to Christes body in the sacrament, where it is not after condition of nature, but by the almighty power of his word. And although he hath not taken away from his body the nature of a very body, yet may it please him to do with his body, being God nolesse then man, that which is besides and above the nature of a body. So it pleased him to do, 
Matth. 26.  when he said, This is my body. And so it pleaseth him it be done, when so ever the same body is offered in the daily sacrifice of the church according to his commandment and institution. 
Contra Eutychem. li 1 how Christ hath left to be now in earth. 1. joan. 1.  That Vigilius saith, Christ hath left us touching his humane nature, but hath not left us as touching his divine nature: it is to be vnderstanded of his visible shape, in which he shewed his humane nature, when he walked here on earth, when he was so conversant with men sensibly, that as S. John writeth they heard him with their ears, they saw him with their eyes, they beholded him, and touched him with their hands. As touching his humane nature in this sensible wise, Christ hath left us, after which S. Augustine saieth, I am non inuenis Christum loqui in terra. 
Expositionis in epist. joan. tract. 10.  Now thou findest not Christ to speak on the earth. This maner of Christes humane nature being taken from us withstandeth not, but that we may haue the substance of his natural body and blood present in the blessed sacrament in a mystery by the almighty power of his word, which faith these defenders travail to impugn. And( as God would) the penneman of this apology bringeth vnwares as it seemeth, for confirmation of his sacramentary doctrine that out of Fulgentius, 
Ad Thrasimundum regem.  which overthroweth al that he went about to build against the real presence. That father as he is by him alleged saith, Christum, cum absit à nobis per foreman servi, tamen semper esse nobiscum per formam Dei. That where as Christ is absent from us according to the form of a servant, yet he is ever present with us according to the form of God. Whereby he meaneth that Christ is nomore here among men, as he was before his death, in form and shape of man, in such wise as we see men live on the earth. 
Fulgentius fowly falsified by thinterpreter.  Which words because they seem to dash their whole purpose, the prelates of this new English church haue altered the sense of them by shifting in this word ( Manhood) in stede of ( the form or shape of a servant) which the latin hath, and this word ( godhead) in stede of ( the form of God). In the english translation this is to be sene allowed by the author, and set forth in the name of a lady name A.B. as appeareth by the epistle of an other gentlewoman for knowledge of her name giving out only these two letters M.C. For so I find in the book, and more of them I know not. If my Lady A.B. devised this practise of her own head, as I commend her for a shrewd wit, so I require in her more truth. For it is a great falsehood in an interpreter to make such exchange of any part of the book, which is taken in hand to be interpnted, much more of words of so weighty importance. I would say for some colour of her excuse, that herein she followed Oecolampadius, Musculus, and others of that sect: but that I judge verily she never conferred their falsified translations with the originals. Whether I may without breach of courtesy charge her with so heinous a crime or no, I doubt. Perhaps as she passeth the bonds of womanly state in presuming to meddle so fare in these perilous matters allowed now by a few of the new english church, and disallowed always by the whole ancient church of christendom:( if the translation be hers and not an others set forth in her name): so may I seem to forget courtesy, thus roughly to blame so soft a creature. Whether it be done by legier demaine of her part, or false juggling of the authors part, by whom the translation is allowed, as M.C. writeth in her epistle: God knoweth, not I. But such false play among true folk will much impair their credite, and disgrace the whole pastime.  

apology  We believe that the holy ghost, who is the third person in the holy trinity, is very God: not made, not creat, not begotten, but proceeding from both the Father and the son, by a certain mean vnknowen unto men& unspeakable, and that it is his property to mollify, and soften the hardness of mans heart, when he is once received thereunto, either by the holsom preaching of the gospel, or by any other way: that he doth give men light, and guide them unto the knowledge of God, to al away of truth, to newnes of the whole lief, and to everlasting hope of salvation.  

Confut.  As we aclowledge this article to be true and catholic, so we demand of these defenders, 
The Defenders driven to confess that, which by express scripture they can not avouch, nor by the 4. first chief councils. All truth not expressed in Scripture. Other later councils to be received beside the four first  how they can prove the same. Haue they either express scripture for it, or any of the first four general councils, which be esteemed of most authority? We are sure they haue not. Therefore we do them to understand, and if they hear us not, we advertise the readers that fear God, and love his truth, that all truth necessarily to be believed is not expressed in the scripture, and that other councils be to be received besides the four first which are allowed in England by parliament, as that wherein this point touching the proceeding of the holy ghost hath ben defined. Concili. Lugdunen.& council. florentin. sub Eugenio 4. as also other definitions of the church, when vpon a new doubt rising an old truth is by later publications declared. Likewise those councils in which the doctrine hath ben defined by the church concerning the two wills and operations of Christ, which who so ever believeth not, or at least refuseth to believe, is not to be taken for a christen men. If these councils be denied, 
Procession of the holy ghost.  all these things shall come in doubt again: and if these be received, then why should not all the rest that be universal be also received, which the church hath allowed?  
We believe that there is one Church of God, 
apology  and that the same is not shut up( as in times past among the Iewes) into some one corner or kingdom, but that it is catholic and universal, and dispersed throughout the whole worlde. So that there is now no nation which can truly complain that they bee shut forth,& may not be one of the Church& people of God: And that this church is the kingdom, the body and the spouse of christ: and that Christ alone is the Prince of this Kingedom, that Christ alone is the head of this body, and that Christ alone is the brydgrome of this spouse.   

THE SECOND CHAPTER.  
It is a world to see these Defenders. 
Confutation. Ephes. 4.  They which haue not kept unity of the spirit in the band of charity, which S. Paul requireth, but haue severed themselves from the body of the church, tell us now forsooth, they believe, that there is one church of God. 
If therbe but one church, which is it among so many? The church quiter fallen down long a go after thopinion of the defenders and a how of late set up by Luther and Zuinglius. look in the leaf H. 7. b. leaf. e. 2.  But what may we think this one church to be? Can they seem to mean any other( what so ever they pretend) then this new church of late yeres set up by satan through the ministery of Martin Luther and those other Apostates his companions, if it may be name a church, and not rather a Babylonical tower? For as touching that church whereof al christen people hath ever taken the successor of Peter to be the head under Christ, which is the true catholic church, in their apology they stick not to say plainly, that it is clene fallen down long ago. And therefore the beginning of Luthers seditious and heretical preaching they call herbam as much to say as the green grass, or first spring( this interpreter nameth it the very first appearing) of the gospel leaf. F. 7. And in the leaf F. 8. they say that forty yeres ago and vpward, that is at the first setting forth of Luther and Zwinglius, the truth was vnknowen and unheard of, and that they first came to the knowledge and preaching of the gospel. Likewise in an other place they grant that certain and very strange sects haue bē stirring in the world ever since the gospel did spring, 
In latin they terterme it exortum Junii.  meaning the time when Luther first brinced to germany the poisoned cup of his heresies, blasphemies, and sathanismes. Thus having condemned the church of God which was before Luthers time, and allowing that for the true church the gospel whereof first sprung out of Luther: how can they avouch their belief, and by what reason and learning can they make good that there is one church of God? We would fain know which and where it is. Is Luther and his congregation that one church of God, or Zwinglius and his rabble, or Osiander and his sort, or Zuenckfeldius and his sect, or Stancarus and his band, or Balthasar Pacimontane and his rank? For all these and certain other sects haue Luther for their founder, and for their radix jesse as it were, from whence they spring. And in dede every learned man easily seeth how the gutters of their doctrines run out of Luthers sink. Of all these there is none but stoutly claimeth the name of the church.  
Then how say ye Defenders, which church be ye? name the child. If ye name one, we set the others against you. If ye, 
The zwinglians and calvinists condemned of Luther, and of all the Lutherans.  who for the more part are zwinglians, would deny Luther and his companions to be this one church, are ye not like to be evil treated by Mathias flacius Illyricus, by Ioachimus westphalus, by Nicolas Amsdorffius by Heshusius and other of that side? But o lord how should ye be handled of Luther himself, were he alive? How often doth he reckon you Sacramentaries in the number of reprobates? How often in his books putteth he you and your capitaines in the roll of those that he utterly condemneth, naming roundly together, Infidels, Turkes, Epicures, heretics, papists, Sacramentaries? And now if he should hear you challenge the name of the one church of God to you, and deny him and his followers that claimed title: would he not( think ye) stampe and rage, would he not whet his dog eloquence vpon you, and call you worse then these abouerekened, yea and if he wist how, wrose then some of you be yourselves? The like courtesy may ye look for at those other sects, of which every one claimeth the name of this one church of God.  
But ye say, that this one church is not shut up into some one corner or kingdom, but that it is catholic and universal, 
catholic Church  and dispersed through out the whole world. True it is that ye say, what so ever ye think. For the church which is the one true church of God, is such. And so we protest in our creed to believe one holy catholic church. But the holy learned and ancient fathers, where they call and believe the catholic church, 
Why is the church called catholic? Threefold universality an infallible mark to know the church by.  they mean( as vincentius Lirinensis declareth) the church to be catholic, that is to say universal,( for so the word signifieth) in respect of a threefold universality, of places, which this defender here toucheth, of times, and of men, which he toucheth not. In the catholic church we must haue a great care( saith he,) that we hold that, which hath every where, evermore, and of all persons ben believed. If these Defenders prove not the church they profess themselves to be of, to haue this threefold universality: then is their congregation not this one church, nor of this one church of God, but the synagogue of Antichrist. Whereas all heretics haue challenged to themselves the name and estimation of the church, never were there any yet that were able to bring for proof of their doctrine this threefold universality, not Arius, not novatus, nor Luther himself, whom these defenders make the restorer of the lost gospel, and the rock whereon the church after the shipwreck of many ages is new framed and set up. As concerning the faith of Arius, 
Arius.  although it infected in maner all the greek and latin churches, yet before the time of Alexander bishop of Alexandria, the church never heard of it. The heresy of novatus 
novatus.  it was not received but in afric, and that not in all, neither before the time of Fabianus the Pope. Luther and Zuinglius their wickedness and blasphemy hath ben known but of late yeres. Neither hath it taken roote, but in certain places, nor is approved by all men, but by certain, and those not accounted most worthy either for learning, or for order of life. And although the auctours of this apology crack of the great increase and spreading abroad of their gospel, and now glory in the number of kingdoms, 
Leaf. G. 1.  dukedoms. Counties, common weales and free Cities: Yet hath it not gone, so forre abroad as the Arians heresy did by three partes of four. Which was at length utterly extinguished, as this shall be. again may it please them to call to remembrance, that this gospel they brag so much of, within these fifty yeres, gave not forth his sound out of germany, 
The beginning of the how gospel.  no not out of saxony, no not out of Wittenberg, no not out of the Augustine friers cloister there, no not out of friar Luthers cell, not out of his breast, where it was hidden only, powred in by the instinct of satan thennemy of mankind finding the friers heart wholly inflamed with covetise, ambition, disdain against John Tetzet and the order of the Dominicans, rancour and malice against the Pope and Albert archbishop of Mentz, for that he was removed from the preferment of his pardon preaching, whereby he found himself well cherished, and was maintained in wealth and pleasure. Wherefore in as much as the doctrine of these Defenders hath not this threefold universality, of times, places, and men: their church gownded upon the same having thus ben shut up in a corner, can not seem by their confession to be the true universal and catholic church.  

Christ alo●e prince, head, bridegroom, spouse of the church. The being of a head considered two ways.  That the catholic church is the kingdom, the body, and the spouse of Christ, we aclowledge. Of the same kingdom we confess and believe Christ to be the prince alone, so as he is head of this body alone, and so as he is bridegroom of this spouse alone. For head and spouse alone he is in one respect, not alone in an other respect. For a clear declaration whereof it is to be vnderstanded, that being of a head may be considered after two ways, either according to the inward influence, so as the virtue and power of moving and of sense is derived from the head unto the other members: or according to outward government, right so a as man is directed in his outward acts according to the sight and other senses, 
According to inward influence of grace Christ onely is head of the church  which haue their roote in the head. Now the inward influence of grace is not of any other, but of Christ only. Because christes manhood only hath power to justify, for that the same only is joined personally to the godhead. According to this inward influence of grace, Christ properly and only is head of his mystical body the church. 
In respect of outward government the name of head is attributed to others beside Christ. Amos. 6. 1. Reg. 15. Psal. 17. Headship in respect of government diverse in Christ and in men  But as touching the outward government, the being of a head is common to Christ with others. For in this respect certain others may be called heads of the church, as in Amos the prophet the great states be called the heads of the people. So the scripture speaketh of king Saul, When thou were a little one in thine own eyes, thou wast made head among the tribes of Israel. So david saith of himself, he hath made me head of nations. In this sense the name of head is attributed to princes and gouernours. And yet not all together so as to Christ. First forasmuch as Christ is head of all those that pertain to the church, according to every place, every time, and every state. But men are called heads in regard of certain special places, as bishops be called heads of their churches. Or in respect of a determinat time, as the Pope is head of the whole church, during the time of that calling. And according to a determinat state, even so as men be in the state of this mortal life, for further stretcheth not this humane headship. again the name of head is attributed to Christ an other way, because Christ is head of the church by his own power and authority. Men be called heads, in as much as they be in stede of Christ and under Christ, after which meaning S. Paul saith to the Corinthians, 
2. Cor. 2.  for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it, in persona Christi, in the person of Christ, 
2. Cor. 5.  and in an other place, We are ambassadors in the stede of Christ, even as though God did exhort you through vs. To conclude in few, according to inward influence of grace into every faithful member, Christ only is head of the church, according to outward governing, the Pope under Christ and in stede of Christ is head of the same.  

Christ the true bridegroom the Pope vnderbridegrome of the church joan. 3.  As touching the bridegromeship, we say and believe, that if we would speak properly, Christ is the only bridegroom of the church his spouse, of whom it is said, he that hath a spouse, is a bridegroom, for from out of the church he begeteth children to himself. But others are called bridegromes working together with Christ outwardly to the begeting of spiritual children, whom nevertheless they begete not to themselves, but to Christ. And such are called the ministers of the bridegroom, in as much as they do his stede. And therefore the Pope, who is in stede of Christ the bridegroom in the whole church, is called also the bridegroom of the universal church, a man may term him the vicegerent bridegroom. And whereas S. Bernard writing to Eugenius saith, that the Pope is not the bridegroom of the church, but the bridegromes proctor and friend: he understood principally and chiefly, for that a bishop in the charge of the church committed unto him despouseth virgins not to himself, 
2. Co●. 11.  but as S. Paul saith, to Christ, and so doth the office of the bridegromes proctor, factor and friend.  
Furthermore( we believe) that there be diuers degrees of ministers in the church, whereof some be deacons, some priestes, 
apology  some bishops, to whom is committed the office to instruct the people, and the whole charge and setting forth of Religion.   

THE THIRD CHAPTER.  
Here it had ben your part to haue declared your faith touching the holy sacrament of order agreeable to the faith of the catholic church. 
Confutation. Sacrament of Order.  That there be seven orders in the church, four lesser, and three greater, for so by good reason they are called. And as for the institution, authority, and estimation of the greater, specially of priesthood and deaconship, ye might haue alleged the scriptures, so for the lesser the example of Christ, the tradition of the Apostles, and the testimonies written of the Apostles scholars, of those that both next and sone after followed them, namely Dionyse cap. 3. hierarch. Ecclesiast. Ignatius epist. 8. ad ecclesiam Antiochenam. Tertullian in praescrip. aduersus haereticos, Gaius Pope and martyr in Diocletians time, Sozimus in S. Augustines time, Isychius, Eusebius Caesariensis in his ecclesiastical history, and Epiphanius in the end of his book contra haereses.  
Yet not withstanding we say that there neither is nor can be any one man, 
apology  which may haue the whole superiority in this universal state, for that christ is ever present to assist his Church, and needeth not any man to supply his room, as his onely heir to all his substance: and that there can bee noe one mortal creature, which is able to comprehend or conceive in his mind the universal church, that is to witte, all the partes of the worlde, much less able to put them in order and to govern them rightly and duly.  
Where any thing is in dede, 
Confut. That one is superior and chief over the whole church.  there whether it may be or no to discuss, it is needles. For every being presupposeth a power to be. Therefore whether any one man can be superior and chief over the whole church we leave to speak, that so it is, thus we prove. 
1  First I demand of these Defenders, whether it be not necessary that the people of every parish haue their curate, vicar or person, and the people of every dioces their bishop? deny this, and dissolve the whole state of the church. And then how long should when look for a better? This being granted, as in every special number of Christes people being apart one pastor and one bishop is requisite to be the ruler of them all: so what reason is it there be not one chief governor of the whole Christen people together? May not the partes be well conserved in their state without a special governor, and may the whole consist without a general? 
2  Furthermore that unity of the church be kept whole, it behoveth that all agree in faith. Now touching matters of faith, it falleth out necessarily that questions be sometimes moved. But then through diversities of judgements the church should be divided, unless by authority of one it were kept in unity: Therefore that unity be conserved, it behoveth that one bear rule over the whole church. 
3  These Defenders denying any one man to haue superiority over the whole church, seem to take from Christ both the glory of his providence, and the praise of his great love toward his church. For if he had not appointed one supreme judge for decision of controversies that happen about faith and religion, whereas it is said by our lord concerning the Iewes synagogue, what more should I do, 
Esai. 4.  that I haue not done for my vineyard? he might seem to haue failed the church in things necessary, and to haue done less for the church, then he hath done for the synagogue. 
1. Cor. 1.  Which to say or think of Christ who is the wisdom of his Father, and hath loved the church so tenderly, and  shed his blood for the same so abundantly, it were heinous and wicked blasphemy. 
4  again who doubreth, but that the regiment of the church is ordered in such wise, as better may not be devised, as that which is disposed by him, by whom kings reign and makers of laws define matters according to iustice? 
provver. 8.  Now in regiment of a multitude the end is specially to be sought for, which is peace. And who seeth not peace to be more conveniently procured by rule of one, then of many? Hereof it followeth the regiment of the church so to haue ben disposed by Gods providence, as one be made ruler over the whole church.  

5  Finally then is the church militant, whereof we speak in best order as touching government, when it resembleth the church triumphant. and in dede this warrefaring church is derived from that, which having past the dangers of their fight here in earth, triumpheth in heaven. Whereof S. john in his revelation saith, 
Apo●. 21. Exod. 25. Heb. 8. acto. 7.  I saw the holy city new jerusalem coming down from heaven. And to Moses God said, that he should make al things according to the sampler which was shewed to him in the hill. But in the triumphant church one is governor over the whole, that is God: therefore order requireth, that here on earth in the church militant one bear rule over all. And thereof the holy captain Iosue seemeth to speak, 
Iosuae. 1.  where he saith, The children of Iuda and the children of Israel shall assemble together, and they shall take to themselves one head. 
joan. 10. Christ is the principal head and of himself, the Pope is the ministerial head, and under Christ, and for Christ. Matth. 28. 1. Pet. 2.  Thereof our Lord saith in S. John. And there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. Where these Defenders as others the aduersaries of this unity say, that Christ is this one shepherd, this one head, who is so wee deny not, shepherd of his flock, head of his body, bridegroom of his spouse, prince of his kingdom, as it is before declared: yet say they therein nothing to the disproufe of the catholic doctrine touching unity of the head, which is in stede and ministery of Christ. For whereas the Father hath given to Christ all power in heaven and earth, so as he only is the king, head, ruler, judge of all, the pastor and bishop of our souls, and therefore they which we aclowledge to be kings, heads, rulers, iudges, pastours, and bishops in earth, be his vicars, lieutenants, vicegerentes, and ministers: all this power by what name so ever it be called, 
A man is necessary to do Christes stede of outward government in the church. The necessity and institution of the head of the church. Genes. 32. Num. 12. luke. 1. Act. 10. 2. Cor. 12.  being such as is exercised and administered by his word: need it is that forasmuch as Christ now dwelleth not with us in visible presence, his church haue one man to do his stede of outward ruling in earth, by his word to administer all that is behooful, and to perform the duty of the head in respect of the body.  
Now that Christ is not conversant with us visibly, as he was with his disciples before his passion, and preacheth no more unto us with his own mouth sensibly, to attain the understanding of his will we may not look to haue God appear unto us as he did to the fathers of the old Testament, to speak to us, as he did to Moses face to face, mouth to mouth, as the scripture saith, to sand us his angel, as he did to the virgin mary, to instruct us with visions from heaven, as he instructed Peter, to take us up into the third heaven, as he took Paul, there to hear the secrets of his will: but it behoveth us to be content for the working of that which remaineth to be done touching our salvation, with such order as hath pleased him. For it is manifest that Christ perfiteth all the Sacramentes of the church. He it is that baptizeth, he it is that forgiveth sins, he is the true priest that hath offered himself on the cross, and by whose power his body is daily consecrated and offered on the altar. Yet because he would not remain in visible presence with all believers, he choose men to be his ministers, by whom the foresaid things should be done and ministered to them. By like reason forasmuch as he would take from the church his corporal and visible presence, it behoved some one man to be put in commission for bearing the charge and taking care of the church in lieu and stede of himself. For this purpose before his Ascension he said to Peter, whose love he had tried and found to be most fervent above all others, feed my sheep. 
johan. 21.  And before his passion, Thou being again converted strengthen thy brethren. 
luke. 2. Matth. 16.  And to him specially he said by promise, To thee will I give the keys of the kingdom of heaven, thereby to show, that the power of the keys should be derived to others by him for the better keeping of the unity of the church.  
Thus we see these Defenders negative doctrine, 
The Defenders arguments made against unity avoided.  that no one man may haue the superiority over the whole state of the church, disproved as utterly false. But now let us see what weighty reasons they bring for the same. Their reasons be these. First because Christ is ever present to assist his church, secondly because he needeth not any man to supply his rome as his only heir to all his substance, thirdly because no man is able to comprehend in his mind the universal church: therefore there is no man head of the church. I marvell that they who be so captious to find fault and scoff at other mens reasons, make so slender reasons themselves. 
1  For answer to the first. Though Christ by majesty of his godhead be present every where, for so he filleth heaven and earth, 
Ierem. 23.  and by special grace be present to assist his church, 
Mat. 28.  as he doth assist every faithful man: yet because the church is a body politic, visible and sensible, and is gathered together, of men who living in flesh, and fighting against the flesh, 
The government of the church requireth a sensible man.  consist of body and soul, of flesh and spirit, and not of spirit only: it is to be governed by a sensible man, whom it may see and hear, whose visible ministery it may perceive and obey in stede of Christ. The ministery of which man Christ useth to this purpose, and by the same doth his work, as a craftesman to do his work useth his instrument. If men consisted of spirit only, they should need none other governor then Christ always by the grace of his holy spirit assisting them. Now being of body and spirit, it behoveth they be governed by a man like themselves. For else if it were lawful every man for upholding of all his doings to pretend that he followed the motion of Christes spirit, what rule would be in the church, it is easy to conceive.  

2  Touching their second reason, we grant, Christ needeth not any man to supply his rome that should succeed in his whole substance, for so hath the Latin. For neither is man of capacity of such succession, nor Christ giveth away all his substance, 
Esai. 24.  as neither his glory to an other. Neither hath ever any such fond saying ben uttered by the divines where they treat of the unity of the churches regiment. But it seemeth this Defender here regarded more the pretty elegancy of the law phrase, then the weight of the matter. But forasmuch as he speaketh of need, we say, first, that Christ needeth not, but that men haue need, so it be. Christ is able by himself to govern, but man is not able to receive the benefit thereof. 
need, how it may be at tributed to Christ.  The weakness is of mans part, not of Christes. again we say that need is double, absolute and with condition. need absoute neither is nor can be in Christ. For being God omnipotent he needeth nothing so absolutely. need with condition Christ may haue his honour not impaired. Because it was forepurposed by God, and so forespoken by his prophet zachary, that chest the king of Iewes should come to them in meekness and humility, sitting on an ass and on the fool of an ass used to the yoke: 
Matth. 21. Zachar. 9.  sending two of his disciples for the same to the place where they were tied, he commanded them, if ought were said to them why they so did, to answer quia dominus his opus habet, that the Lord had need of them. And therein he bad them not to lie. So because the will and wisdom of God hath determined, that Christ having performed the whole oeconomie of his incarnation, that is, all that he came to do for mankind in flesh: his church after taking his visible presence from earth should be governed by men, who should be ambassadors for him in the world, who should be interpreters and declarers of his secret will, finally who should represent his person to the believers: to the performance of this he hath need of men. And because he saw the knot of unity should most surely be kept knit by government of one, he committed the regiment of the whole church to one, whose visible ministery he might use in stede of himself.  

3  To their third reason we say affirming that which they deny. That a man is not only able to comprehend in his mind and conceive the universal church, but also to put it in order and to govern it, so far as is expedient. And hereto it sufficeth, that what the chief ruler can not do in his own person, he do it by others having power and authority under him. The queen pardy ruleth not the whole realm of England, that is to say every part and parcel of it in her own majesties person and by her self, but by others, who haue authority under her. And yet is she queen of England, and in all right of a king supreme governor of the same. And hard it is not thus to rule, when subiectes live in obedience. Right so it fareth with the church, which is the one fold whereof by Christes appointment there is one head shepherd, 
joan. 21.  the successor of him, to whom Christ said, feed my sheep. Who so ever will not be fed nor ruled by this one shepherd, and breaketh out of this one fold: he sheweth himself not to be a sheep, but a goat, not of this flock of Christ, but of the herd of Antichrist.  
For all the Apostles, as Cyprian saith, 
apology De simpli. praelat. Confut. Power double, ordinary, and by privilege.  were of like power among themselves, and the rest were the same that Peter was.  
Power is double, the one ordinary, the other by privilege or extraordinary. Ordinary power is that which continueth in one and the same course for ever. According to which power Peter was head of the church, and his successors after him. Power by privilege or extraordinary is that which is given besides the common course by way of dispensation. As where the other Apostles should haue received ordinarely their power from Peter, as who had commission over all, both lambs and sheep, among whom the Apostles had their place: Christ by special grace preventeth ordinary course, and maketh them for the time, and in their persons equal with Peter in the office of Apostleship. Thus concerning ordinary power Peter is head of the Apostles, and by that reason they are subject unto him, as sheep unto their shepherd. But by privilege true it is, as S. Cyprian saith, they were of like power among themselves. Now what odds there is betwixt an ordinary authority of judging given to any officer for himself and his successors in that office for ever, and a special commission for life time only: so much is betwixt Peter and the rest of the Apostles.  

apology  And that it was said indifferently to them all, Feed ye: indifferentlye to them all, go into the whole world: indifferently to them al, teach ye the gospel:  

Confutation.  We deny that it was said indifferently to them all, feed ye. Yea or that it was said at all, feed ye. To Peter and to none else was it said, 
John. 21.  feed my lambs, feed my sheep. Which word of feeding so singularly spoken to Peter in the presence of the other Apostles, proveth, that it was not indifferently said to al, feed ye. 
Marc. 16.  That they were sent in to the whole world, and that they were commanded to teach, and in that respect also to feed, we confess under the distinction of ordinary and extraordinary power before mentioned.  

apology  And as Hierom saith, all Byshoppes where soever they be, h● they at Rome, be they at Eugubium, be they at Constantinople, be they at Rhegium, 
Ad Euagrium. De simple. praelator.  be all of like pre-eminence, and of like preesthood. And as Cyprian saith, there is but one Byshoprike, and that a piece therof is perfitly and wholly holden of every particular bishop:  
My lady the interpreter not without the will and aduise of this Defender,( for by him the interpretation was allowed as the gentle woman M. C. saith in her epistle) hath altered the sense of the latin, as the author of the latin hath altered the words of S. Hierom. 
Hierom falsified by the defender, the defender falsified by thinter preter.  For neither speaketh S. Hierom of bishops in the plural number, neither saith the latin apology, that the bishops be all of like pre-eminence, which this ladys translation hath, but of the same merit and of the same priesthood. With the word pre-eminence guilefully shifted into the sentence in place of this word merit, these false players thought to win the game that is, that all bishops after the mind of S. Hierom be of like pre-eminence, and so that all be of like power and authority, and none above other. Whereby they would confownd the most ordinate regiment of the church, and take away all order. which standing in force as it ought, their disordinat preachings can not prosper. Thus many a one is by them deceived, that either for negligence looketh not to their fingers, or for ignorance can not examine their doctrine. 
pre-eminence put falsely for merit.  The crafty conueiaunce of pre-eminence in lieu of merit serveth thē to double purpose, both to make the unlearned believe that there ought no bishop to haue pre-eminence over other bishops, and so themselves would teach and rule as them list, as they do: and to escape mention of need or merit. Which they abhor( I will not say so much as the devil doth holy water, but) so much as they take good heed that they be without all merit.  
Concerning the place alleged, 
Hieromes place discussed.  S. Hierom in an epistle to evagrius speaking against that a particular custom of the church of Rome should prejudicate the authority of the whole world in preferring deacons before priestes, compareth bishops of great Cities and little towns together, and saith, that as touching the honour, dignity, and power of bishoply order and office, and of priesthood, as good and as great a bishop in that respect is the one as the other: and that the bishops of Eugubium and Rhegium two little towns in italy, and of Thebes an other little town in egypt, are bishops and priestes, and haue as great merit in regard of any their virtues, and as great power concerning the order of priesthood, as the bishops of Rome, of Constantinople, of Alexandria. Yet as touching power and authority of regiment, the patriarkes of Constantinople, Alexandria, and Antiochia be above bishops of other dioceses, and the bishop of Rome Peters successor is above all. As in the body of man we may see diversity tempered with uniformity, in such wise as the body being one, 
Rom. 12.  the membres many, the office of them all sundry: the same may we observe in the body of Christ, which is the church. 
1. Cor. 12.  For we being many are one body in Christ, and every man among ourselves one an others membres. This knot requireth a mutual consent of the whole body, but chiefly the concord of priestes among whom although dignity be not common to them all, yet order is general, as lo writeth. For even among the most blessed Apostles( saith he) in likeness of honour there was odds of power, 
Epist. 84. Among bishops is difference of power with likeness of honour.  and whereas the election of them all was equal, yet to one was it given to be over the rest. Out of which perfit rose the distinction also of bishops, and with great providence it hath ben disposed, that all should not take all vpon them, but that in every province there should be one, who might first give his sentence among his brethren: and again that in the great Cities some should be ordained for taking vpon them matters of greater care, through whom the charge of the universal church should haue course to the one see of Peter, and that nothing should ever dissent from the head. By which words we are taught, that God, who is not God of strife, but of peace and love, hath appointed this order for keeping peace and unity in the church, that not only the order of priestes should be distinct from the order of the laity, but that among priestes also themselves and bishops, though order were general, yet dignity should not be a like. For the order of bishops and priestes is one but the dignity of bishops is greater. And among bishops there is equality of honour, but odds of power. How great and honourable so ever the rome is that any bishop is placed in, be he archbishop, metropolitan, primat, patriarch, or Pope himself: he is no more a bishop thē any other of those, who occupy the lowest rome. 
The diversity betwen bishops wherein it consisteth.  The diversity consisteth in this, that they are called to part of charge in sundry proportions, as their bishoprics are greater or lesser, the Pope hath committed unto him the charge of the whole fold of Christ, and hath the fullness of power. For if all were of like power, as these defenders teach, unity could not be maineteined. wherefore by very order of Christ himself it hath bē ordined that matters touching faith and religion, at lest such as be weighty, be referred to that one prince of pastours, who sitteth in the chair of Peter, the highest bishop, which hath always ben done and observed from the Apostles time to our dayes by catholics, and not seldom also by heretics. Whereof as of this whole matter I haue treated in my answer to M. Iuelles challenge, in the fourth article, which is of the Popes primacy.  
The sentence that this defender allegeth out of S. Cyprian, it seemeth he vnderstod it not. Let him bestow some pain and study about the right meaning of it, and he shall find, that it maketh little for his purpose, which here is to bring argument and authority against the unity of the ecclesiastical government. For unity of the church, which he with his companions goeth about to break, among all the fathers writings that place and that whole treaty may seem to be the chief. And would God they were so willing to admit the holy doctrine of that blessed Martyr for maintenance of unity against all schisms and heresies, as they be diligent to pry and search for words, that may seem to sound after their wicked phantasy against unity. The words of S. Cyprian report bishopric to be one, and that the part which each bishop hath thereof is holden in the whole.  
Ye say that a piece of that one bishopric is perfitly and wholly holden of every particular bishop. But what mean ye by that? If by this word in solidum, perfitly and wholly holden, ye mean that every particular bishop is a bishop without depending of any other, then ye speak against the words ye bring out of S. Cyprian. 
De simplicitate praelatorum.  Who saith, that as there are many beams of one sun, many boughs of one roote, many riuers of one fountain: so there are many bishops of one bishopric. Therefore this bishopric is unto particular bishops, as the sun, as the roote, as the fountain. What the fountain, roote, and sun of this bishopric is, S. Cyprian declareth a little before showing that it was said to Peter, 
mat. 10.  to thee I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven. 
joan. 21.  And, feed my sheep. But if ye mean by your bishopric perfitly and wholly holden, that ye will be bishops without depending of any roote or fountain, how be ye part of the whole, who make yourselves the whole? But we may conclude, because ye be not in any roote or fountain within all christendom, that therefore ye be no partes of that one bishopric, the part whereof is holden in solidum.  

apology  And according to the iudgement of the Nicene council we say that the Bishop of Rome hath no more jurisdiction over the church of God, then the rest of the Patriarkes either of Alexandria or Antiochia haue.  

Confutation.  If it be a shane to belie the devill according to the old proverb, what is it to belie the church of God represented in the Nicene council? 
Nicene council  Naming the Nicene council, I mean the high consistory of the holy ghost in earth, then which among the general councils never was any sense the Apostles either for time more ancient, or for fathers assembled more holy and more learned, or for weight of the matter there treated, of more authority. And sir Defender, where finde you that iudgement in the whole Nicene council?  
The sixth canon among all others of the Nicene council is that you ground your surmise vpon I know well. 
The sixth canon of the Nicen council declared to make against the Defenders  For that hath ben wrested to your purpose by certain of your side. And the same rightly constrewed maketh most against you. For it seemeth to aclowledge the bishop of Rome his supremacy and sovereignty of iudgement over other patriarkes. These be the words of the canon rightly englished. Let the ancient custom continue in force which is in egypt, Libya, and Pentapoli, so that the bishop of Alexandria haue power over them all. 
{αβγδ}.  Quando quidem etiam episcopo Romano hoc consuetum est. Forasmuch as the B. of Rome hath thus used. Likewise in Antiochia also and in other provinces let the churches keep their prerogative. What can be gathered of the words of this canon, but that for ratifying the jurisdiction of the patriarkes of Alexandria and Antiochia, the fathers of the Nicene council thought good to alter nothing, but to follow the ancient custom of old time used and allowed by the B. of Rome? for it is as much to say as this. In as much as the B. of Rome hath ben wont from the beginning to grant to the B. of Alexandria jurisdiction over egypt, Libia and Pentapoli: the Nicene council following his authority and rule, or at least his usage, willeth and granteth that the said bishop retain and keep his ancient right. For if the B. of Alexandria had not received such jurisdiction by authority and grant of the B. of Rome of old time, what reason should haue moved those fathers for confirmation thereof to allege the custom of the B. of Rome? And in that case whereto pertained the addition of the cause, quia episcopus Romanus hoc consuevit, because this was the B. of Rome his custom? If this had not ben their meaning, they would never so haue spoken. For what was his custom other, then to allotte those provinces to the B. of Alexandria? If any other thing be alleged to haue ben his maner and custom, besides that the words of the canon bear it not, what had that ben to the purpose, what so ever it be, for cause and confirmation of the B, of Alexandria his jurisdiction over egypt, Libia and Pentapoli? allege you Defender for old custom of the B. of Rome what elles you list, so that you make no violence to the canon, and thereupon make your argument inferring of your allegation the conclusion,( ergo the B. of Alexandria ought to haue jurisdiction over egypt, Libya and Pentapoli): and you shall find it to be such an argument as any sot would be ashamed to make.  
Thus it is evident the old custom of the B. of Rome in granting to the B. of Aexandria iurisdisdiction over egypt, Libya, and Pentapoli, to be the cause why the fathers of the Nicene council by their canon ratified the same, and would admit no alteration nor change therein. Whereby they show themselves to stand to the arbitrement and authority of the B. of Rome in limiting and appointing to bishops their jurisdictions, as the supreme judge. Against this if it shall like you to reply, we warn you before, that neither ye take advantage of a doubtful interpretation, as we know that canon to be found in diverse books not so plainly translated, and therfore we require you to stand to the original as it is in greek: 
Theodore Balsamō.  neither that ye defend your lie with the wrested exposition of Theodore Balsamon, who hath written greek commentaries vpon the canons of the councils sithence the schism of the greeks, himself being a schismatic. For he being a greek born and pricked with the hatred of his nation against the latin church, and specially the See of Rome: in thexposition of that sixth canon of the Nicene council swerveth both from learning and also from reason.  
And as for the bishop of Rome, 
apology  who now calleth all matters before himself alone, except he do his duty as he ought to do, except he minister the Sacramentes, except he instruct the people, except he warne them and teach them, we say that he ought not of right once to be called a bishop, or so much as an elder. For a bishop, as saith Augustine, is a name of labour and not of honour, because h● would haue that man to understand himself to be no bishop, which will seek to haue pre-eminence, and not to profit others.  
Neither the bishop of Rome, 
Confutation. An evil bishop loseth not the name of a bihop, though he lose the merit of a bishop.  nor any other bishop is worthy of the name of a bishop, except he do the duty of a bishop, all this we grant. But that he ought not of right to be so called of those whom he hath charge over in case of omitting his duty: thereto we say, that although in respect of his demeanour he be not worthy to be called a bishop, yet in respect of the vocation, degree, and pre-eminence, though he leave his duty undone, for which he incurreth danger of damnation, that title pertaineth unto him of good right, 
Vide Aug. lib. 2. contra epist. Parmen. cap. 13. come. 7.  and so continually he is and ought to be acknowleed for a bishop, though an evil and an unworthy bishop, likewise a priest, which this youthly Lady interpreter following the instinct of their new spirit, termeth an elder. 
1. Tim. 2.  And whereas S. Augustine saith that a bishop is a name of labour and not of honour, he is to be vnderstanded so as the scripture is. Which in some places speaking of two things that are both in dede to be affirmed, the one being of more importance then the other, denieth the one in comparison of the other. 
1. Cor. 1.  So S. Paul saith to the Corinthians, that he was not sent of Christ to baptize, but to preach, where as for all that in dede he was sent to do both. Right so a bishop is a name of honour, but rather of labour. And though a man seek to haue pre-eminence, and not to profit others: yet being once rightly consecrated bishop, no man may understand the contrary, but that he is a bishop, but an evil bishop, and that he standeth answerable to God for that great charge taken vpon him. As for the order, during life it is not taken from him. And in as much as he keepeth the same, why should he be bereft of the name? For what a man is, the same he is called. What if a judge give wrong iudgement? Is he not for all that a judge? What if a king seduced by evil counsellors rule not his realm so as he ought to do? Is he therefore not a king? I ween these Defenders and their fellows will not be over hardy to set forth this doctrine in their sermons at the courts of princes. 
A secret preparation toward the deposing of rulers.  Yet it seemeth to be a secret preparation toward a purpose against such time, as the princes government shall mislike their fantasies. For where they learned this opinion concerning bishops, there learned they also the like concerning civil magistrates. I mean wickliff. Among whose heretical articles condemned by the church in the council of Constance, this is reckoned for the fiftinth. Nullus est dominus civilis, nullus est praelatus, nullus est episcopus, dum est in peccato mortali. that is to say. None is a temporal Lord, none is a prelate, none is a bishop, so long as he is in deadly sin. By which doctrine a lusty king( other wise never so good) for looking on a fair lady with lusting eyes, or for calling his groom fool, or for giving a buffet to his page. in anger, loseth the name of a king and forfeiteth his kingdom.  

apology  And that neither the Pope nor any other thirdly creature can no more be head of the whole church, or a bishop over all, then he can be the bridegroom, the light, the salvation, and life of the church. For these privileges and names belong onely to Christ, and be properly, and onely fit for him alone.  
And that no bishop of Rome did ever suffer himself to be called by such a proud name and title before Phocas themperoures time, vho as we know by killing his own sovereign morris the Emperour, did by a traitorous villainy aspire to thempire, which was about the sixth hundreth and thirteenth year after Christ was born.   

THE fourth CHAPTER.  
How the Pope is head of the church, 
Confutation.  enough is said before, the same here to say again, it is needles. 
universal bishop.  The name of universal bishop, which this interpreter meaneth, being taken in a right sense is no proud name in respect of him to whom it belongeth. Whether any bishop of Rome ever suffered himself to be called by that name or no, as you deny it and prove it not, so it forceth not whether any did so or no. If they refused it of humility, that proveth it not to be unlawful. For if that name rightly vnderstanded belong unto him, 
The Popes neither challenge to them, nor use the name of universal bih op. apology  as it may be proved, why might it not be suffered? The fact of Phocas no man defending it, why you should so much aggravat, there is no cause. As no bishop of Rome took vpon him the name of universal bishop before Phocas, so neither after him did the Popes challenge and use the same.  
Also the council of Charthage did circumspectly provide, that no bishop should be called either the highest bishop or chief priest.  
Here by your leave sir Defender you play false, 
Confutation.  and are taken as it were with false dice, and therefore ye ought justly to lose all that ye haue unjustly won. 
falsifying of a council.  By your false play and false dice, I mean your shameful falsifying of this council by you alleged. And for this and other your falsehood it is right you lose the credite which unjustly( because by false teaching) you haue won among the unlearned. That your false play might not sone be espied, you do as like to master Iuell, as though you were his fathers son. For that false slight he useth more then any that ever I red. For where as we haue seven councils of Carthage, neither show you which of them it is that you allege, nor give any notice of the number, where the canon may be found. But contrariwise as the Lapwing with her busy cry leadeth a man from her nest, so you led us from the place where it is, by putting in the margin of your book the number, 47. that not finding it by your note, we should give over further looking for it. 
joan. 3.  Who doth evil, hateth light, saith Christ. So here falsifying and forging a canon of a council, you would fain walk in clouds, that your lying might not be deprehended. Your Lady interpreter hath done pretely also for her part in translating your latin word disertè into this english word circumspectly. Whereby she thought your lie might the better be soothed and authorized. Which all together as it is done untruly, so had it ben done more circumspectly for furtherance of your falsehood, if the matter should never come to trial of learning.  
Now who so ever examineth the place truly, must needs cry out shane on you Defender, who are thauctour. The words, if you had lifted to haue alleged them without falsehood, 
The 26. canon of the third council of Carthage discussed.  be these. Which we finde in the 26. canon of the third council of Carthage, which council was authorized by the sixth general council holden at Constantinople in Trullo. Vt primae sedis episcopus non appelletur princeps Sacerdotum, aut summus sacerdos, aut aliquid huiusmodi, said tantum primae sedis episcopus. And thus they are to be englished. It hath liked us( say the fathers of that council) that a bishop of a first see be not called prince of priestes or highest priest, or any such other thing, but only bishop of a first see. Now cometh me this ioily Defender, and saith the council of Carthage hath by express words,( for so much his latin soundeth) or as the Lady translateth, prouidenly provided, that no bishop should be called either the highest bishop, or chief priest. By which canon thus by him untruly uttered he thought to deprive the Pope of this ancient title, that all the world hath ever attributed unto him, so as he be called no more summus Pontifex.  
For the right understanding of this canon two things are to be considered. 
Vide epistolam Leonis. ix. ad Petrum& unwelcome Aphricae. Episcopos. provincial councils bind not all in general, as the general councils do.  How far the authority of this council ought to be extended, and what is meant by a first See. The decrees of this council pertained but to the province of afric. For provincial councils bind only the provinces in which and for order of which they be kept. Only the general councils are to be received of all. This appeareth by the first canon of this council, in which the fathers there assembled ordain, that all bishops of the Aphricane province take their keeping of Easter of the church of Carthage. And forasmuch as it is so, how so ever this canon be constrewed, it taketh no place out of afric, and therefore can not justly be alleged against the bishop of Rome his title of sum mus pontifex. 
Prima seeds, what it meaneth. Dist. 99. de Primatibus. A first See, or a Primate See. Dist. 80. c. in illis.  By these two words prima seeds those fathers understood any city in which a patriarch or primate, who are of one office though of diverse names, hath his See. I call it a first See, or rather( if it might be permitted) a primate See. In great Cities where the highest courts for iustice were kept, and where the chief pagan priestes of the latins name primi Flamines were resident before the coming of Christ, there after Christes coming were Patriarkes or Primates placed, by whom the weighty matters of bishops should be decided. Which order was taken first by commandment of S. Peter, as Clement writeth, by the Apostles and Clement, 
Dist. 99. c. provinciae. Dist. 80. c. urbes.  as Anacletus witnesseth, by the Apostles and their successors afterward, as Lucius the Pope saith. At the first such primate Sees were few in number, Alexandria, Antiochia, jerusalem, and Rome. Albeit Rome for the primacy of Peter receiving commission of our lord over all, had the pre-eminence above all other. And in consideration that the church there was founded both by Peter and Paul the most glorius Apostles, 
Li. 3. ca. 3.  as Irenaeus termeth them, who there preached, there governed, and there suffered their martyrdom, it hath more commonly ben called the apostolic See, then a primate See. After these, other sees were ordained by the Apostles successors to be of that dignity, 
Patriarkships or primate Sees.  when as nations were converted to the faith, over whom for their multitude necessity required Primates to be constituted, 
Dist. 99. c. nulli.  as it appeareth evidently by a decree of Anicetus the Pope. So Constantinople, so canterbury, so Aquileia, so Venis, and certain other Cities were advanced to the honour of patriarkships, or which is one of primate Sees. And so there were certain in afric. For the city of Charthage was a primate See, the province of Numidia had a primate See, the province of Mauritania had an other, the province of Tripoli an other. In the second canon of this third council of Carthage, the fathers making a decree that every year a council be kept for all afric, appoint, that all the provinces which haue first or primate Sees, sand from their synods to the council each one two bishops. But from Tripoli( say they) for the small number of bishops there, let but one bishop come. Now the council of Carthage by this Defender alleged and likewise the Aphrican council ordained and willed, that a bishop of any of the primate Sees of afric should not be called princeps sacerdotum aut summus sacerdos, prince or chief of the priestes, or highest priest, by which word a bishop is there signified: but onely a bishop of the primate See whereof he was primate. By which decree they willed only their primates of afric to keep themselves within their limits, and not presumptuously to take vpon them more glorious titles and further jurisdiction, then to them pertained. lest surely they might seem to prejudicate the Popes supremacy. Thus it is evident thauctoritie of that Carthage council being restrained to afric onely, that by this canon the Popes primacy and title is no whit diminished or disproved. And so for all this Defender, he remaineth as he hath ever, highest bishop.  
And therfore sithence the Bishop of Rome will now a dayes so be called, 
apology  and challengeth unto himself an authority that is none of his: besides that he doth plainly contrary to the ancient councils and contrary to the old fathers: We believe that he doth give to himself, as it is written by his own companion gregory, a presumptuouse, a profane, a Sacrilegious and Antichristian name: that he is also the king of pride, that he is Lucifer, which praeferreth himself before his brethren: that he hath forsaken the faith, and is the foreronner of Antichrist.  
Here is much a do about nought, 
Confutation.  and a number of bitter words pyked out of S. Gregories epistles pretended to be written against the bishop of Rome to no purpose. 
Vide epist. Leonis. ix. ad Michaelem Constantinopolitanum archiepiscopum. The pope never challenged to himself the title and name of universal bishop whereof so much a do is made by the Defenders.  For if we say as we may say and truly, that he challengeth to himself no such name, then what hath this Defender to say? Let him show us how many bishops of that see ever took the name of the universal bishop vpon them, specially as gregory understandeth it to signify. If he can show none, why blotteth he so much paper with so impudent lies? Now sithence it can not be proved that ever any bishop of Rome either before of after gregory would so be called, neither that in this respect he challengeth any authority to himself that is none of his: what shane is it herein this Defender to belie him in saying that he doth plainly contrary to the ancient councils, and contrary to the old fathers. In dede the six hundred and thirty fathers of the general council of Chalcedon gave to Pope lo that name, as gregory in three sundry epistles writeth, 
Actio. 3.  and certain other in their writings haue attributed to the Pope the same. But that either lo or any other his successor affencted so to be called, gregory denieth. And that any since Gregories time to our dayes ever called or wrote himself universal bishop, we deny. Before and in Gregories time that name was challenged ambitiously by the bishop of Constantinople, but therein he was resisted and duly rebuked by Pelagius the 2. gregory, and Boniface the 3. his successor.  
Whereas Pelagius and gregory writing against the presumption of John the B. of Constantinople for taking vpon him this name, are much alleged by the enemies of unity against the authority of Peters successor over the whole church: we say that they following the steps of their predecessors refused the name of universal bishop in such sense as Pelagius and specially gregory oftentimes declareth, that where one is called universal bishop, he seemeth to be called bishop alone, so as bishopric should be taken away from all others. But they refused not so to be called after this meaning, as though by that refusal the authority of the B. of Rome should be restrained and not extend over the whole church. They deny that any man might so be universal bishop, as he should be also the peculiar ruler and governor of every particular church. For so all other bishops had ben in vain, and that is contrary to Christes institution, who ordained al the Apostles to be bishops. They refused the proud name, in that sense as it seemed to them to import injury to other bishops, not the thing by the name in a right sense signified, which is apostolic authority reaching over the whole church. To say all in few, they refused the name that might odiously be taken, they refused not the primacy which Christ to them had committed. Therefore gregory writing to morris the Emperour alleging the words that make for Peters authority over the whole flock of Christ, saieth of Peter, The charge of the whole church and principality is committed to him, and yet is he not called universal Apostle. Where it is plain that gregory doth both affirm the charge of the whole, and denieth the name of universal. For which cause the bishops of Rome that sithence haue succeeded, keeping the thing and embracing the humility of gregory, 
Ego N. episcopus ecclesiae catholicae.  use to subscribe themselves to this day thus. I. N. bishop of the catholic( that is universal) church. Let these Defenders grant the thing, and we strive not for the name.  
Further we say, that the minister ought lawfully, 
apology  duly and orderly to be preferred to that office of the church of God, and that no man hath power to wrest himself into the holy ministery at his own pleasure and list. Wherefore these persons do us the greater begging, which haue nothing so common in their mouth, as that we do nothing orderly and comely, but all things troublesomly and without order: and that we allow every man to be a priest, to be a teacher, and to be an interpreter of the scriptures.   

THE fifth CHAPTER.  
saying and doing are two things. 
Confutation.  Ye say well in outward appearance. would God your doing were accordingly. Albeit the maner of your saying had ben more commendable, if in so weighty a point you had spoken more particularly and distinctly, not so generally and confusely. Ye say that the minister ought lawfully to be called( for so hath your latin) and duly and orderly to be preferred to that office of the church of God. Why do ye not so? why is not this observed among you gospelers? What so ever ye mean by your minister, and by that office, this are we assured of, 
No holy orders among the gospelers.  that in this your new church bishops, priestes, deacons, subdeacons, or any other inferior orders ye haue none. In saying thus we speak not of our Apostates, that be fled from us unto your congregations. Who as they remain in the order which they received in the catholic church: so being divided and cut of from the church and excommunicate, lawfully they may not minister the sacramentes. For where as after the doctrine of your new gospel like the foreronners of Antichrist ye haue abandoned thexternall Sacrifice and priesthood of the new testament, and haue not in your sect consecrated bishops, and therefore being without priestes made with lawful laying on of hands, as scripture requireth, all holy orders being given by bishops only: how can ye say that any among you can lawfully minister, or that ye haue any lawful ministers at all?  
This then being so, let me haue leave to oppose one of these Defenders consciences. And that for the better understanding I may direct my words to a certain person, let him be the author of this apology, or because his name to me is unknown, let him be M. Iuel. for with him gladly would I reason in this point the rather for acquaintance, and for that he beareth the name of a bishop in that church, where myself had a rome. How say you sir minister Bishop, ought the minister to be lawfully called? ought he duly and orderly to be preferred to that office, or( as the latin here hath) promoted or put in authority over the church? in the apology this defender saith yea. Thē answer me directly. How prove you yourself lawfully called to the rome you take vpon you to occupy? First touching the ordinary succession of bishops, from which as you know Irenaeus, Tertullian, Optatus and Augustine bring argument and testimony of right and true religion: do you allow the same with those fathers or no? If not, then dissent you from the learned and most uncorrupt antiquity. which is not reasonable, neither then are to be heard. If yea, then how can you reckon us up your succession, by which you may refer your imposition of hands and consecration to some of the Apostles or of their scholars, as the foresaid fathers did to repel the novelties of heresies, 
Succession of doctrine joined with succession of persons  and defend their continual possession of the church? Which if ye go about, how can ye but to the great hindrance of your cause bewray your weak hold? For whereas succession of doctrine must be joined with the succession of persons, as calvin in his institutions affirmeth, and Beza avouched at the assemble of Poyssi in france, and we also grant: how many bishops can you reckon, whom in the church of Salesbury you haue succeeded as well in doctrine as in outward sitting in that chair? How many can you tell us of, that being your predecessors in order before you, were of your opinion, and taught the faithful people of that dioces the doctrine that you teach? did bishop Capon teach your doctrine? did Shaxton? did Campegius? did bishop Audley? 
B. Shaxton and, B. Capon repented.  Briefly did ever any B. of that See before you teach your doctrine? It is most certain they did not. How so ever those two first name only in some part of their life taught amiss, how afterward they repented, abhorred your heresies, and dyed catholics, it is well known. Now besides these whom elles can you name? 
M. Iuell can new no lawful succession in the bishopric of Salisbury.  If you can not show your bishoply pedigree, if you can prove no succession, then whereby hold you? Will you show us the letters patents of the prince? Well may they stand you in some stede before men, before God, who shall call you to account for presuming to take the highest office in his church not duly called thereto, they shall serve you to no purpose.  
Here if you allege an interruption of this succession of doctrine, as it hath ben alleged by some of your side: then must you tell us when and where the same began, which you can never do. 
In praescriptionibus aduersus haereticos.  You know what Tertullian saith of such as ye be. Edant origines ecclesiarum suarum, &c. We say likewise to you M. Iuell, and that we say to you, we say to each one of your companions. 
These be Tertullians words.  Tell us the original and first spring of your church. show us the register of your bishops continually succeeding one an other from the beginning, so as that first bishop haue some one of the Apostles or of the apostolic men for his author and predecessor. For by this way the apostolic churches show what reputation they be of. As the church of Smyrna telleth us of Polycarpe by John the Apostle placed there. The church of the Romaines telleth us of Clement ordained by Peter. S. Augustine having reckoned up in order the bishops of Rome to Anastasius successor to Siricius, who was the eight and thirtieth after Peter, saith that in all that number and roll of bishops there is not found one that was a Donatiste, 
Epist. 165  and thereof he concludeth, ergo the Donatistes be not catholics. So after that we haue reckoned all the bishops of salisbury from bishop Capon upward, we shall come at length in respect of doctrine and orders to S. Augustine the Apostle of the English, who was made bishop by gregory, and from gregory upward to S. Peter. And in al that rue of bishops we shall finde never a one that believeth, as M. Iuell believeth, ergo your zwinglian and calvinian belief M. Iuell and of the rest of your fellows is not catholic. But what speak we of succession to them, who haue no orderly succession, as no sect of heretics ever had?  
Therefore to go from your succession, which ye can not prove, and to come to your vocation, how say you sir? you bear yourself as though you were bishop of Salisbury. 
Hard questions proponed to M. Iuell.  But how can you prove your vocation? By what authority usurp you the administration of doctrine and sacramentes? What can you allege for the right and proof of your ministery? Who hath called you? Who hath laid hands on you? By what example hath he done it? How and by whom are you consecrated? Who hath sent you? Who hath committed to you thoffice you take vpon you? Be you a priest, or be you not? If you be not, how dare you usurp the name and office of a bishop? If you be, tell us who gave you orders? The institution of a priest, was never yet but in the power of a bishop. bishops haue always after the Apostles time according to the ecclesiastical canons ben consecrated by three other bishops with the consent of the metropolitan, and confirmation of the B. of Rome. Thus unity hath hitherto ben kept, thus schisms haue ben stayed. 
Libro. 1. epist. 6.  And this S. Cyprian calleth legitimam ordinationem. For lack of which he denied novatian to be a bishop, or to haue any authority or power in the church. Hereto neither you nor your fellows, who haue vnlaufully invaded the administration of the sacramentes, can make any just and right answer, I am sure.  
What, do not you remember what iudgment Athanasius, 
Athanasius in apologia 2.  and the bishops of egypt, Thebais, Libya, and Pentapoli were of concerning Ischyras the Arrian? And why may not all good catholic men judge the like of you? Macarius a priest of Athanasius, 
Ischyras and M. Iuel compared together. ( as it was laid to his charge by his accusers) pulled Ischyras from the altar as he was at mass, overthrew the holy table, broke the chalice. The matter brought to iudgement, Athanasius and those bishops both denied the fact, and also though it were granted, yet defended the same as well done, because Ischyras was not a lawful minister of the church. And why so? Because he was not lawfully made priest, nor with churchly laying on of hands consecrated. For proof thereof they alleged, that neither he was of the number of those whom Alexander bishop of Alexandria before Athanasius received into the church made priestes by Meletius the heretic, neither that he was by the said Alexander created. Then how is Ischyras a priest, say they? or of whom hath he received his orders? 
Colluthus.  Hath he received them of Colluthus? For this schift only remaineth.( Colluthus was an Ariā, 
Hunc praeslyteri& Diaconi Mareoteci vocant non verum, said imaginarium episcopum. Epist. ad Curi●sum& Philagrium. Apolog. 2.  who bare himself for a bishop and gave orders being but a priest). Now Colluthus, say they in their reply, could not make him a priest, for that he dyed in degree of priesthood himself, and never was consecrated bishop, and that all imposition of hands or giving of orders was counted of no force, and that all they whom he had consecrated, were brought down again to the order of the laity, and under the name and in order of lay men received the communion. Hereof they conclude that Ischyras could be no priest. And therefore it was denied, 
What may be judged of the how communion.  that there was the mystery of the body and blood of our lord. By which example besides other points we are taught, what to judge of your pretensed communion.  
again what say you to Epiphanius, who writeth against one Zacchaeus of his time, 
Contra baereses lib. 2. {αβγδ}. The doing of a bishops office by one that is not a bishop.  for that being but a lay man with wicked presumption took vpon him to handle the holy mysteries, and rashly to do thoffice of a priest? Likewise where he findeth great fault with two other, of which the one dwelled at a monastery in the wilderness of Egypt, the other at Sinaeum: for that they feared not to execute the things that belong to bishops not having received the imposition of hands that pertaineth to the consecration of a bishop. And will you understand what Epiphanius judged of that wicked disorder? he acknowledgeth it to be the part of men that of a certain presumption of mind violently and besides all truth play rash and dissolute wantons. 
what Epiphani{us} iudgeth of it.  For so the greek signifieth {αβγδ}. Thus they be neither priestes nor deacons, which be not consecrated lawfully according to the order used in the church, that is to wit by bishops lawfully consecrated, but either by the people or the lay magistrate, as it is in some places where this doctrine is professed, or by monks and friers Apostates, or by excommunicate priestes having no bishoply power.  

In dialogo contra Luciferianos.  Hereof S. Hierom saith notably. Hilarius cum diaconus de ecclesia recesserit, &c. Hilary forasmuch as he went from the church being a deacon, and is only( as he thinketh) the multitude of the world, can neither consecrate the sacrament of thaulter being without bishops and priestes, nor deliver baptism without the Eucharist. And where as now the man is dead, with the man also the sect is ended, because being a deacon he could not consecrate any clerk that should remain after him. And church is there none, which hath not a priest. 
Sacerdotē.  But letting go these few of little regard that to themselves be both lay and bishops, listen what is to be thought of the church. Thus S. Hierom there. In whom leaving other things I note, that if there be no church where is no priest: where is your church like to become after that our Apostates that now be fled from us to you, shal be departed this life? 
By S. jerome the english church shall be no church tall.  And yet being with you as they be, your church is already in such state as S. Hierom reporteth, that is, no church at al, howe so ever ye set forth your new gospel under the name of the church of England. Bucer being once charged to give account of his vocation, had no other shift, but to aclowledge for defence of his ministery, that he had taken orders of a bishop after the rite and maner of the catholic church.  
Sleidan recordeth that Luther himself wrote to the senate of Mulhusen concerning Muncer the preacher of the Anabaptistes, 
Luthers adu●se touching Muncers vocation.  who stirred the common people of germany to rise against their nobility, that the senate should do well to demand of Muncer, who had committed to him the office of teaching, and who had called him thereto. And if he would name God for his author, that thē they should require him to prove his vocation by some evident sign or miracle. If he could not do that, then he advised them, to put him away. For this is the wont of God said he, when so ever he willeth the accustomend form and ordinary maner to be changed, to declare his will by some sign. Therefore this being true, 
Of what maner is the vocation of our supper intendents  it remaineth M. Iuell, you tell us, whether your vocation be ordinary or extraordinary. If it be ordinary, show us the letters of your orders. At lest show us that you haue received power to do the office you presume to exercise, by due order of laying on of hands and consecration. But order and consecration you haue not. For who could give that to you of all these new ministers how so ever else you call them, 
The defenders haue nothing to say for defence of their vocation, which they take vpon them.  which he hath not himself? If it be extraordinary( as all that ye haue done hitherto is besides all good order) show us some sign or miracle, If you fail in all these, why ought not you to be put away? If you can show no sign or miracle, as your virtue promiseth us none: bring us forth some example of your extraordinary vocation out of the stories of Christes church that hath followed the Apostles. If you be destitute also thereof, at lest show us what prophet in the old testament ever was heard extraordinarely without sign, or miracle, or testimony of God.  
Finally what can you answer to that which may be objected to you out of S. Cyprians epistle to Magnus touching novatian? 
Lib. 1. epist. 6.  It was at those dayes a question, whether novatian baptized and offered, specially where as he useth thee for me, maner and ceremonies of the church. Cyprian denieth it. For he can not( saith he) be counted a bishop, 
Eusebius eccles. Hist. li. 6. cap. 43. in graec.  who setting at nought the tradition of the gospel and of the Apostles, nemini succedens a seipso ordinatus est, succeeding no man is ordained bishop of himself. For by no means may one haue or hold a church, that is not ordained in the church. 
M. Iuell and the rest of his companions, be no bishops, but vserpers of an undue office and ministery.  I leave here to recite the rest of that epistle pertaining to this point, and all against you, for that it were to long. Thus it is evident, foras much as you can neither prove your doctrine by continual succession of priestes, nor refer your imposition of hands to any Apostle or apostolic bishop, nor show your vocation to be ordinary for lack of lawful ordination and consecration, nor extraordinary for lack of gods testimony and approbation by sign or miracle or example of the old or new testament: that you are not lawfully called to the administration of doctrine and sacramentes, that you are not duly and orderly preferred to the ministery which you exercise, that you go, not being called, that you run, not being sent. Therefore we may justly say, 
Ierem. 23.  that ye haue thrust yourselves into that ministery at your own pleasure and list. For though the prince haue thus promoted you, yet be ye presumers and thrusters in of yourselves. Well, lands and manors the Prince may give you, priesthood and bishopric the Prince can not give you. This being so, we do you no wrong as ye complain, in telling you and declaring to the world, that touching the exercise of your ministery ye do nothing orderly, or comely, but all things troblesomly and without order. unless ye mean such order and comeliness as theeues observe among themselves in the distribution of their robberies.  
Lastly if ye allow not every man yea and every woman to be a priest, why drive ye not some of your fellows to recant, that so haue preached? why allow ye the books of your new evangelists, that so haue written? And whether ye admit all sorts of the common people to be your ministers of the word, to teach the people, and vnreuerently to handle the holy scriptures, or no: our proof is needles, the thing is manifest.  
moreover we say, 
Apoogie  that christ hath given to his ministers power to bind, to loose, to open, to shut, and that office of losing consisteth in this point that the minister should either offer by the preaching of the gospel the merits of Christ and full pardon, to such as haue lowly and contrite hearts, and do vnfainedly repent them, pronuncing unto the same a sure and undoubted forgiveness of their sins, and hope of everlasting salvation. Or else that the minister, when any haue offended their brothers mindes with a great offence, and with a notable and open fault, as tendency they haue as it were bannyshed and made themselves as strangers from the common fellowiship, and from the body of christ, then after harlot amendment of such persons, doth reconcile them, and bring them home again, and restore them to the company and unity of the faithful.   

THE sixth CHAPTER.  

Lib. 1. de penitentia. Cap. 2. Power of losing and binding is in the catholic church only.  What ye mean by your ministres we reck not. The power of losing and binding we aclowledge with S. Ambrose that it is granted to priestes only, and that therfore the church duly challengeth the same which hath true priestes. heresy can not challenge it,( saith he) which hath not the priestes of god. This power Christ gave to his Apostles and to their successors priestes of the new testament, when he said to them after that he was risen again. 
joan. 20.  receive ye the holy ghost, whosoeuers sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them. And whosoeuers sins ye retain, they are retained. Yet to thintent this doctrine may rightly be vnderstanded, we say, that although priestes loose and remit sins, yet principally they do it not, 
1. Cor. 3.  but as the ministers of God. For neither he that planteth is any thing, neither he that watereth, but God who giveth the increase. For remission of sins( saith S. cyprian) whether it be given by baptism or by other sacramentes, 
Sermone de Baptis. Christi. efficientiae.  properly is the holy ghosts, and to him alone remaineth the privilege of this working: as for the solemnity of the words, and the invocation of the holy name, and signs done by the ministries of priestes according to apostolic institutions, they celebrate the visible sacrament. As for the thing itself, the holy ghost formeth and causeth it. 
ibi.  And as the same S. Cyprian saieth, to the visible consecrations the author of all goodness invisibly putteth his hand and perfiteth the thing of the sacrament. 
Epist. 91. ad Theodorum. Episcopum foroiuliensem.  Christ( as holy lo writeth) without ceasing, and always, cometh to his work while it is doing, neither is he at any time absent from those things which he hath committed to his ministers to be executed. 
Opening and shutting.  As touching opening and shutting that it be well perceived, we say that god only shutteth hell and openeth heaven as cause efficient, 
Rom. 5.  in as much as by his mercy he poureth his grace and charity into our hartes by the holy ghost, whom he vouchesaueth to give unto us: and that he openeth hell and shutteth heaven punishing for sin by his just iudgement, in as much as, he suffereth men according to their deserts to run into sins, neither poureth his charity into their hartes.  
Now concerning the ministers of the church, we say that they open and shut by dispensing the sacramentes, who haue their virtue of the merites of Christ. For where as the sacramentes haue issued and flowed out of the side of our saviour Christ sleeping on the cross,( as by allusion we may use the words of the old figure) wherewith the church is builded, therfore in the sacramentes of the church the efficacy of the passion remaineth. And for that cause to the ministers also of the church who be dispensours of the sacramentes, a certain power is given to remove the bar that excludeth us from gods favour, not through their own, but throwgh gods virtue and power, and merit of Christes passion. 
The key of the church.  And this power is called by a metaphor the key of the church, which is the key of ministery, whereof we shall speak hereafter. This power, so much as concerneth releasse of sins, 
For whom serveth the sacrament of penance Noua●iaus denied penance.  is exercised in the sacrament of penance to the benefit of them that after baptism be relapsed and fallen into sin again. Of which power no christen man doubteth, unless he hold the heresy of the Nouatians, who were condemned for heretics by the church, because they denied that priestes in the church had authority to remit sins, and so denied the sacrament of penance. For they bound the penitents and never loosed them, but remitted them to God to be assoiled. Against whom S. Ambrose wrote very learnedly his two books de paenitentia. 
Li. 2. cap. 2  Where showing things impossible to be made to us possible by gods grace, he saith thus. It seemed impossible that water should wash away sins. 
4. Reg. 5.  Naaman of Syria believed not that his leper could be made clean by water. But what was impossible, God made it to be possible, which gave to us so great grace. Likewise it seemed impossible sins to be forgiven through penance. Christ granted this to his Apostles, which is translated to the office of priestes. And so that is made possible which seemed impossible.  

apology.  And( we say) that the office of losing consisteth in this point, that the minister should either offer by the preaching of the gospel the merites of Christ and full pardon to such as haue lowly and contrite heartes, and do vnfaynedly repent them pronouncing unto the same a sure and vndoubtid forgiveness of their sins, and hope of everlasting salvation, or else that the minister when any haue offended their brothers minds with a great offence and with a notable and open fault, whereby they haue as it were banished and made themselves strangers from the common fellowship and from the body of Christ, then after perfit amendment of such persons doth reconcile them and bring them home again, and restore them to the company and unity of the faithful.  

Confutation.  The sum of all these gay words abbriged doth attribute losing or absolution first to preaching, next to assoiling such as be excommunicate. As touching the first, these Defenders confounded the offices of preaching and of absolution. 
Absolution consisteth not in pronouncing the gospel.  The preacher teacheth the hearers and reporteth the words of Christ, as out of the mouth of Christ, saying thus saith Christ& c? The priest which is the minister of absolution according to the authority given to him by Christ, in his own person assoyleth the penitent saying, I assoil thee in the name of the father &c. The preacher in that he preacheth only, doth not assoil sinners, neither giveth he the merites of Christ, nor full pardon by pronouncing unto them the gospel. For if that great benefit consisted in pronouncing or denouncing of the gospel, then why might not every lay man, yea women, yea young boyes and girls assoil synners? yea why might not every man assoil himself? And would ye sirs appoint unto us such for iudges constituted by christ? For who knoweth not, that al these may be taught to pronounce that part of the gospel, where the doctrine of remitting of sins is contained? 
Luthers doctrine concerning absolution  In dede this is Martin Luthers doctrine, who referreth al losing and absolution to the faith of the hearer, by whom soever, and how soever, in sport or earnest the words be pronounced, not to the power of the minister. which is very absurd and far from reason, from the iudgement of al the holy fathers and ancient councils, from the doctrine of the catholic church, and from the mind of the scripture. For the words of Christ be so plain, as they can not be so violently wrested. For Christ said not, to whom ye offer by preaching of the gospel my merites and pardon, or whose sins ye pronounce by the gospel to be remitted, but quorumcunque remiseritis, who soeuers sins ye remit, 
joan. 20. The power of priestes. Math. 9.  they are remitted to them. For as the son of man remitted sins to him that was sick of the palsye, and to Mary Maudelē that ye may know( saith he) that the son of man hath power to remit sins, &c: even so he hath transferred the same power unto priestes, saith Chrysostome. 
Lib. 3. de dignitate sacerdotali.  which priestes he hath sent, as the father sent him. And if absolution consist in pronouncing of the gospel, which profiteth so much as it is believed, then the power of the keys which Christ hath given to the church, consisteth not so much in the minister, as in the sinner that heareth and believeth, and so is forgiven by Luthers opinion. And by this means the priest hath no special power. But we say with the church that a sacrament hath his efficacy of the institution of Christ in him, to whom it is adhibited. Which efficacy dependeth not of the hearing or understanding of that which is signified. The word which is the form of a sacrament, is operatorious or working, as S. Ambrose termeth it that is to wit, hath power to work the determinat effect, yea without the understanding of him to whom it is directed. therefore absolution which pertineth to the sacrameent of penance being duly ministered by the priest, the penitent duly receiving the same, that is, after contrition and confession of his sins and due satisfaction done or to be done, is acquitted and forgiven. In this sense the catholic church of Christ hath ever taught, that god worketh our salvation by sacraments, and in this faith it hath always baptized infants, that their sins being remitted they might be made the children of god. Likewise by the keys of the church it hath assoiled persons bereft of the use of speech and reason, as the learned and ancient holy father lo teacheth in his epistle ad Theodorum episcopum Foroiuliensem, 
Epist. 91.  and S. Augustine de adulterinis coniugijs Lib. 1. cap. 26. & ultimo.  
Finally if the office of losing that is absolution consisted in preaching the gospel, and offering the merites of Christ by pronouncing the words in which the remission of our sins is expressed, as this Defender teacheth: then had not the catechumens of old time neither now should they be in any danger, if they should die without baptism and the grace of reconciliation, that is not being assoiled. For they lacked no preaching, as now they lack not where any such bee. The contrary whereof the church hath ever taught, and for witness of the same besides other fathers we haue the plain doctrine of S. Augustine. 
Tract. in joan. 13.  Who saith that a Catechumen how much so ever he profiteth, beareth still the burden of his iniquity so long ab he is not baptized. 
cap. 28.  And in his first book de adulterinis coniugijs, he taketh it for one case a catechumē to die not regenerat by baptism, and a penitent to depart this life not assoiled. The case of baptism( saith he) and of reconciliation is one, if it fortune a penitent to die before he be assoiled. 
Epi. 180.  And in his epistle ad Honoratum, declaring in what case ministers may fly in time of persecution, he saith, whereas some require baptism, some rconciliation,( by which word he meaneth absolation) some also the doing of penance itself, if there be no ministers( who this in case haue power) to serve them, what miserable end followeth them, who depart out of this world, either not regenerat or boaunde, as much to say, as without being assoiled? 
Catechumen.  Thus we learn by S. Augustine what danger it is a Catechumē( who is a learner of the Christen faith before he be admitted to be Christened) to die without baptism, and a penitent without absolution. It is by him no less then exitium, which is utter undoing. And yet these two sorts of men though they lack their ministers, may easily haue the doctrine of remission of sins pronounced unto them out of the gospel. Which preaching and pronouncing of the gospel notwithstanding, the penitent dying without absolution, dieth no less then a Catechumen without baptism, as S. Augustine teacheth, still bound, 
Aug. li. 4. de baptis. contrà Donatist. Cap. 22.  and therefore charged with the burden of his sins. I deny not but cases of just necessity be excepted in the one and the other having right and firm wills and desire in each case. When not the contempt of religion, but the point of necessity excludeth the mystery of baptism, as S. Augustine saith. Then how dangerous and pernicious is the doctrine of these Defenders our new ministering prelates, who more with sweet and holy words, then with truth, teach Christen people that the office of losing consisteth in offering by preaching of the gospel( as they call it) the merites of Christ and full pardon, and by pronouncing( I know not how) a sure and undoubted forgiveness of sins and hope of everlasting salvation to such forsooth as haue lowly and contrite hartes and do vnfaynedly repent them? The contrition of heart they seem to speak of sufficeth not for losing of sins, unless it be contrition formed with charity, as the divines teach. Which charity, seeketh and requireth the sacrament of penance and the grace of reconciliation, which can not be ministered but by a priest. Neither is it possible the priest to judge truly who are lowly and contrite of hart and repent them vnfaynedly, forasmuch as he can not search the heart, unless the penitents humble themselves unto him, and declare their repentance by simplo and lowly confession of their sins. Which confession these new gospelers haue abandoned out of their congregations. How much is more the catholic and holesom doctrine of S. Augustine to be embraced and followed, which he uttereth in these words? 
Li. 50. homiliarum homil. 49  Do ye penance such as is done in the church, that the church may pray for you. Let no man say to himself, I do penance secretly, before god I do it. God who forgiveth me knoweth, that I do it in my hart. But what saith S. Augustine hereunto? why then( saith he) it was said in vain, what things ye loose in earth, 
Mat. 18.  they shalbe loosed in heaven. Then without cause the keys be given to the church. We make void the gospel of God, we make frustrat the words of Christ. We promise to you( he meaneth absolution from sins ministered by the priestes) that which he denied, and then what, do we not deceive you? Lo by S. Augustins doctrine it is not enough, if we will haue our sins loosed and assoiled, to do penance secretly in our hart and before God only. And yet so to do it by these Defenders new gospel it is sufficient. For if I may haue one to offer me the merites and pardon of Christ by preaching of the gospel and pronouncing of forgiveness of my sins unto me, in case this be enough, what need I to confess my sins to my ghostly father? what need I to do penance? why should I care for the priestes absolution, trusting to Christes pardon and absolution? But S. Augustine saith, do ye penance, not such as liketh yourselves, not such as new fangled self pleasing preachers teach you, but such as is done in the church, which consisteth in contrition of hart, confession of mouth, and satisfaction of work, that so ye may be assoiled and be perfitly reconciled. For if the doing of penance in such sort as it is done in the church be not necessary, then is the gospel to no purpose, then is Christes doctrine vain and frustrat, 
Mat. 18.  then is Christ a liar, who said, what things so ever ye loose in earth, they shalbe loosed in heaven. Then be the keys given to the church without cause, then do priestes deceive the faithful people, where as giving absolution they say to every one, I absolve thee in the name of the father &c. But hereof we haue said enough.  
Touching the second point, wherein after your opinion the office of losing consisteth, as we aclowledge, 
losing of them which be excommunicate.  that the lawful power to excommunicat offenders is in the bishops who haue jurisdiction ecclesiastical, or in such as that power is committed unto by the prelates of the church: so the same haue power and authority to assoil them and to loose them from all band of excommunication, and to reconcile them to the church again, after that having done their penance enjoined they haue by some evident tokens declared themselves to be vnfaynedly amended. But we do not attribute the losing of such as be excommunicate to the offering of Christes merites and pronouncing of the gospel unto them as you do, but to the power of jurisdiction by Christ given to the church. And whereas you say that they who haue offended their brothers minds with a great offence and with a notable and open fault, thereby haue as it were banished and made themselves strangers from the common fellowship and from the body of Christ: you seem to speak more confusely then this matter requireth. We say according to scripture and doctrine of the catholic church, that all such persons( to speak rightly) haue not banished themselves as it were from the common fellowship, as you term it, so as they may seem to haue departed from the church by their own accord, for so properly do schismatics and heretics: but according to the greatness of the crimes committed be excommunicat either by sentence of man or by the lawe, and cut away from the body as rotten members, and according to the power of binding and losing given to the Apostles and their successors, be declared to be had and taken as hethens and publicans, as Christ commanded, mat. 18. and consequently be rejected from the communion of the faithful, whereof they are called excommunicated, for that they haue no common part with the rest of the children of the church, of the merites of Christ imparted unto us in the sacramentes. For which cause they be kept from the sacramentes, and all Christen folk be forbyddem their company, specially in case that great excommunication commonly called Anathema be extended vpon them. 
1. Cor. 5.   
By the fathers excommunication in consideration of the necessity of it, 
Excommunication.  is called neruus ecclesiasticae disciplinae, the sinnow of churchly discipline, by the canons, Mucro Episcopi, 
16. quaest. 2. ca. visis. 24. q. 3. c. corripiant.  the sword of a bishop, by S. Augustine, Episcopalis judicij damnatio, qua paena nulla in ecclesia maior est. The condemnation of a man by bishoply iudgement, then the which there is no greater punishment in the church. And this is the uttermost that for punishment of sinners the church by churchly authority doth, ought, or can do. How much the more the malice of them that hate the church appeareth, who besides all reasons and equity, yea with outrageous upbraiding impute to the church as cruelty, the execution of iustice done by the civil magistrate. But to speak fully either hereof, or of the great danger of excommunication, of the kindes of it, what difference there is between the lesser and the greater, and that which is most grievous of al in scripture called anathema, concerning the forms to be observed in proceeding to it, by way of evangelical denouncing, whereof Christ gave commandment mat. 18. or by way of ordinary inquisition, which S. Paul speaketh of, 1. Cor. 5. from what benefits they be excluded that incur the sentence of the one and the other until they be reconciled, in what cases the faithful may company with the excommunicated, in what cases they may not, how the sentence of excommunication is given sometimes by man, sometimes by the law itself, briefly of the whole diversity of this censure according to the diversity of sins done: hereof to treat particularly so much as the matter requireth, I think it neither necessary nor convenient. And this treatise thereby should grow bigger, then my purpose hath ben it should.  
We say also that the minister doth execute the authority of binding and shutting, 
apology  as often as he shutteth up the gate of the kingdom of heaven against the vnbeleeuing and stubborn persons, denouncing unto thē Gods vengeance and everlasting punishment. Or else when he doth quiter shut them out from the bosom of the church by open excommunication.  
Here again you confound the power of binding and the office of preaching, 
Confutation.  as you did before speaking of the power of losing. Whereto we say, as we said before of that other, that binding and shutting consisteth not in denouncing of Gods vengeance, but in the exercise of the key of jurisdiction committed to the church. The ministers whereof bind sinners, whom for just cause they loose not, but know that they are not to be loosed. And to that key pertaineth excommunication, and by the same it is exercised.  

apology  Out of doubt, what sentence so ever the Minister of God shall give in this sort, God himself doth so well alowe it, that what soever here in earth by their means is loosed and bownde, God himself will loose and bind, and confirm the same in heaven.  

Confutation.  Out of doubt whom so ever priestes lawfully made and duly using the key of knowledge and discretion,( as the divines call it) shall assoil and loose, they are assoiled and loosed. And whom so ever they assoil not and loose not, they remain bound, 
The case of extreme necessity always excepted.  and bear the burden of their sins.  
What so ever by them is thus loosed or bound in earth, God himself alloweth for loosed and bound in heaven. Such priestes because ye haue not in your new church, at lest after this wise using priestly authority, and none will suffer to be made, nor such authority to be exercised: ye defraud the faithful people of the great benefit of the sacrament of penance, keeping them fast bound to their sins after baptism committed. and so ye cause their everlasting damnation, for whom Christ hath  shed his blood, the price of their redemption.  

apology  And touching the keys wherewith they may either shut or open the kingdom of heaven, we with Chrysostom say, they be the knowledge of the Scriptures: with Tertullian we say, they be the interpretation of the lawe: and with Eusebius we call them the word of God.   

THE SEVENTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  By the name of keys the scripture meaneth a certain high authority, power, rule, and administration: as in civil matters the delyuering of keys betokeneth a translation of dominion and possession. 
Of the keys.  For he that hath the keys, hath liberty and power over the house, to enter, to let in, to shut out at his list. Our saviour Christ the son of God and very God, promised to give these keys to Peter, when he said to him. 
Mat. 16.  To thee I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven. In which words he used a metaphor, meaning by the keys a special power to take away, or also to put impediment of entrance in to the kingdom of heaven, right so as by a key let of entering into a house is either put or removed. And because the kingdom of heaven is shut to a man by sin, therefore the power whereby such stoppage is removed, is called the key of the kingdom of heaven. For by removing such let it openeth, and by not removing it shutteth, or which is more, for his sin bindeth him further by excommunication. The let whereby the whole nature of man is shut out of heaven by the sin of our first parent, is taken away by the passion of Christ. But because before that benefit be received, heaven yet remaineth shut both for sin original contracted, and sin actual committed: we haue need of the sacramentes and keys of the church.  
The holy fathers for good considerations ground vpon scripture, haue divided the keys in to the key of order, 
division of the keys.  and the key of jurisdiction. And either of them into the key of knowledge which they call also the key of discretion, and into the key of power. 
key of order.  The key of order is the power of priestly vocation, function or ministery, which containeth power and authority to preach the gospel, to consecrat the body of Christ, to remit and retain sins, to administer the sacramentes. 
key of jurisdiction.  The key of jurisdiction is a spiritual power of coercion, given to this use, that people be kept from evil, and contained in all good exercises, that they may be worthy to be made partakers of the sacramentes and of all spiritual good things.  
To these Defenders we say, that they confound the keys, and seem not to know what the keys are. verily these be not only the knowledge of the scriptures, nor the interpretation of the lawe, nor the word of God, although these also do open or shut the kingdom of heaven in their kind, as Chrysostome, Tertullian and Eusebius may well say: and not only these, but also miracles, and plagues, and all other things which prepare the will or understanding of man whereby he may receive the benefit of those most principal keys that now we speak of.  

apology  moreover that Christes disciples did receive this authority, not that they should hear private confessions of the people, and listen to their whishperinges, as the common Massing priestes do every where now a dayes, and do it so, as though in that one point lay all the virtue and use of the keys: but to th'end they should go, they should teach, they should publish abroad the gospel, and be unto the believing a sweet savour of life unto life, and unto the unbelieving and unfaithful, a savour of death unto death: and that the mindes of godly persons being brought low by the remorse of their former life and errors, after they once begun to look up unto the light of the Gospel, and believe in Christ, might be opened with the word of God, even as a door is opened with a key. contrariwise, that the wicked and woeful folk, and such as would not believe nor return into the right way, should be left still as fast locked and shut up, and as S. Paul saith, wax worse and worse. 
2. Tim. 3.  This take we to be the meaning of the keys: and that after this fashion mens consciences either to be opened or shut.  

Confutation.  Here ye harp much vpon one stryng, which so iarreth in the ears of the hearers, as your confuse harmony can like noman unless he be a minstrel of your own sect. The authority and power of the keys consisteth not all together nor principally in preaching or pronouncing of the gospel, as all ready we haue proved. What may we judge of you? proceedeth this of malice, 
The keys confounded by the doctrine of the Defenders.  or of ignorance, that thus ye confound the keys, the powers, and the ministries? What so ever flourish of words ye lay on the vpper cote of your matter, speaking of the going, teaching, and publishing abroad of the gospel, and of the being of a sweet savour of life unto life, and a savour of death unto death, 
2. Cor. 2.  which be the effects of the gospel: all your ground is nothing else but preaching. And thereon ye place the keys, as though in other things there were no force, virtue or use of them. We esteem true preaching of the gospel nolesse then ye do. And what is wrought thereby, 
Wherein consisteth the power of the keys. Distinction of ministries.  we aclowledge. But as the power of the keys consisteth in that partly, which we deny not: so it consisteth also in other ministries. Preaching is one thing, to govern the church is an other, to remit and retain sins is an other, to distribute the sacramentes is an other. Doth not S. Paul in clear words speak severally and distinctly of ministries, where he saith, that he was not sent of Christ to baptize, but to preach the gospel? 
1. Cor. 1.  This doctrine of yours, whereby ye confound the keys, powers, and ministries, doth not only obscure the scriptures, and bring the people to great errors: but also under pretence of a love toward preaching of the gospel, leadeth them into contempt of the sacramentes, and specially of the sacrament of penance, without which if after baptism we haue sinned,( not being letted by case of necessity wherein will desire and vow is accepted) we can not attain to salvation. As you follow calvin your master in this and sundry other false and perilous doctrines, so it is to be feared, if your wicked temeritie be suffered to procede, that at length having brought all religion to bare preaching, ye will abandon all the sacramentes of the church, as things not necessary. For so that wicked master of yours teacheth. that, 
Caluines wicked doctrine against the sacraments.  where Christes death may be remembered otherwise, there all the sacramentes be superfluous. And that I seem not to slander him, I remit you to his commentaries vpon the first epistle of S. Paul to the Corinthians, where expounding these words, Do this in my remembrance, he saith thus. 
In. 1. Cor. 11.  The supper is a token of remembrance ordained to lift up or help our infirmity, for if otherwise we were mindful enough of Christes death, this help( he meaneth the blessed sacrament of the altar) were superfluous which is common to all the sacramentes, for they be helps of our infirmity. Lo by Caluines doctrine if we remember the death of Christ, both the Eucharist and al other holy sacramentes be voided and superfluous. So that by him if a book, picture, image, a woman, a boy, a girl, or any other thing put a man in mind of Christes death, the sacramentes be needles. And then, because no other thing bringeth to our remenbrance the death of Christ more then preaching, to what purpose serve all the sacramentes?  
Thus these Defenders with their master calvin haue found a shorter way to heaven then was known before. Thus they haue set S. Augustine to school again, who in so many places declareth the cathechumens that lacked no putting in mind of Christes death, as daily being instructed therein, and penitents, which also might easily mind the passion of Christ, to be in danger of damnation, if they dyed, those without baptism, these without the grace of reconciliation, not being kept therefrom by necessity. For in that case their vow or desire of these sacramentes might stand thē in stede of act and dede. But by calvin they be but helps to put us in mind of Christes death, lacking other means to bring the same to our remembrance. In an other place he seemeth to derogate much of the necessity of baptism of Christen mens children. 
Contra Interim. Caluines dangerous doctrine touching baptism.  Where he saith, that by reason of Gods promise the issue which cometh of faithful parents, is born holy, and is a holy progeny, and that the children of such being yet enclosed in the womb before they draw breath of life, be never the less chosen into the covenant of life everlasting. 
A preparation toward the vtward subversion of Christen reli-  This doctrine when it shal take place, as by you Defenders it is set in a good furtherace, what shall we look for but that the necessary sacrament of baptism( without which who is to be counted a Christen man?) and the most blessed and comfortable sacrament of the altar, and the wholesome sacrament of penance and absolution, and the rest of the sacramentes, shall be no more esteemed and used, then now ye esteem and use the mass, holy bread, and holy water? This being once brought to pass, shall not the people easily be induced either to receive Mahometes religion, or some other as far from God as that is, or to allow the pleasant trade of life of the Epicureans, the most part being already thereto inclined, and no small number well entred?  
But to return to the keys, which seem to you to haue no force ne use but in preaching. First as touching the scornful scoffs uttered by you sir Defender in latin, and by your interpreter in english against private confessions, and against the ministers of the church appointed by God for grace of reconciliation to be imparted to penitents: your light mocking spirit delighteth yourselves not so much, as it pitieth us to see you both so fast bound in Satans fetters. 
of Confession.  Next concerning Confession necessarily required to the use and power of the keys, which you speak of at your pleasure, thus we say according to the scriptures. Among sundry effects for which Christ gave the keys to the Apostles and their successors, this is one, that by power of them they should remit and retain sins, as himself said, Whose sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them, and whose sins ye retain, they are retained. 
Mat. 16.&. 18. joan. 20.  But sins can not duly be remitted or retained, unless they be known to him that hath authority thereto: and knowledge of sins( specially such as are priuey) can not be had of man, who can not see into the heart of man, but by confession of the sinner: 
That outward comfession of all mortal sins to a priest is necessary.  wherefore consequently it followeth that they received this authority to hear the confession of christen people desirous to be assoiled and reconciled. And that outward confession of all mortal sins which is made to the priest, is necessary to salvation by the institution of Christ, thus we prove it. Because priuey and secret sins be not remitted except priestes remit them, as it appeareth manifestly by the words of Christ to the Apostles, 
joan 20.  whose sins ye retain, they are retained,( where the evangelist understandeth by retaining, not remitting, as though Christ had said, whose sins ye retain, that is to say, ye remit not, they be not remitted): but priestes know not when to remit sins and when to retain, except they know them, neither can they know them, unless the synners confess them: Wherefore the confession yea of secret sins is necessary to salvation by thinstitution of Christ. For in that he instituted the end, he instituted also the means, which should be necessary to the obtaining of the end, unless we would make Christ our lawemaker to haue failed his church in things necessary. That sins can not either be remitted or retained, except the priest know them, we are bold so to say with the fathers, and specially with S. jerome, 
Mat. 16 Comment. in. Mat. 16  who so understood the words of Christ, where he promised the keys of the kingdom of heaven to Peter. Sacerdos pro officio suo cum peccatorum audierit varietates, scit qui li gand us sit, quisoluendus. The priest( saith he) when as according to his office he hath heard the diversities of sins, knoweth who is to be bound, who is to be loosed. Right so as in the time of Moses lawe he pronounced not who was clean of leper, who was not, before that he had viewed the colour, the bunches, and all other tokens of that disease. And thus it followeth of the words of Christ, that confession of all sins, at least deadly, must be made to the priest, before they can be remitted. Which priest is the minister of this sacrament and hath authority to absolve, either ordinary, or by commission of the superior.  

Further proof that con-  again for proof that confession is necessary, we say that to remit and retain sins committed against God, as to bind and to loose, be judicial acts. And therefore by these words Christ ordained a court, a consistory, 
That priestes be iudges, and in the church is court kept spiritually.  a seat of iudgement in the church, and appointed the Apostles and their successors to be iudges. And that this may appear not to be a fantasy of our own heads, S. Augustine so expoundeth those words of S. John in his revelation. Et vidi seeds, &c. And I saw seats, and some sitting on them, and iudgement was given. 
De civit. dei. lib. 20 cap. 9. Cap. 20.  We must not think( saith he) this to be spoken of the last iudgement, but we must understand the seats of the rulers, and the rulers themselves, by whom now the church is governed. And as for the iudgement given, it seemeth not to be taken for any other, then for that whereof it was said, what things ye bind in earth, 
mat. 18.  they shall be bound also in heaven: and what things ye loose on earth, they shall be loosed also in heaven. Sundry other fathers haue uttered in their writings the same doctrine. Hilarius vpon the sixtinth chapter of matthew saith, Beatus coeli ianitor &c. 
In mat. cap. 16.  Blessed is the porter of heaven, whose earthly iudgement( that is to say which is given here on earth) is a foreiudged authority in heaven, that what things be bound or loosed in earth, they haue the condition of the same statute also in heaven. 
Li. 1. epis. 2 De diguit. sacerd. li. 3.  S. Cyprian hath the like saying in an epistle to Cornelius. Chrysostom saith that Christ hath translated al iudgement, which he received of the Father, unto the Apostles and priestes. gregory nazianzen in an oration to the Emperour and his princes, saith to the Emperour, ovis meaes,& nos habemus tribunalia. Thou arte my sheep, and we haue our seats of iudgement 
homil. 26 in euange.  S. gregory the Pope compareth the sacrament of penance with a court of iustice, in which causes be first examined and tried, and afterward judged. That the same is to be done by the priest 
Sermone primo in dic apost. Petri& Pauli.  S. Bernard sheweth. Who as also the learned father 
De sacrament. lib. 2 parte. 14. ca. 8.  Hugo de S. Victore, be not afraid to say after S. Cyprian, hilary, and 
de dignit. sacerdot.& homil. 5. de verbis esa. vidi dominum. &c.  Chrysostome, that the sentence of Peter remitting sins, goeth before the sentence of heaven. This ordinance of Christ requireth that all trespasses, offences, disorders, transgressions, and sins committed against him and his laws, be referred to this consistory.  
Whether these Defenders allow public confession or no, we know not, but whereas they inveigh against private confession, and say in spiteful words, which they haue learned in the school of Satan being loth the sins of the people whereby he holdeth his kingdom, should be remitted, that Christes disciples received not the authority of the keys, that they should hear private confessions of the people, and listen to their whisperinges: we tell them, that confession of all deadly sins is of the institution of God, not of man. But concerning the manner of confessing secretly to a priest alone, 
private Confession.  it is most agreeable to natural reason, that secret sins be confessed secretly. But in case any man in reuenge of his sins, or for humbling himself, or for example of others, or for edifying of the church which he hath offended, will confess his secret sins openly: it is not against the commandment of God, so that always sins be confessed, and that to a priest. For proof of this doctrine of confession, besides the foresaid scripture, we haue the testimonies of the most ancient and best learned fathers. 
Testimonies of the fathers for private or secret confession. Clement.  Clement amongst those things that he acknowledgeth himself to haue received of Peter, this is one, as he writeth in his first epistle translated by Rufine the priest. That, if it fortune either envy or infidelity privily to creep into any mans hart, or any other like evil: he which regardeth his soul, be not ashamed to confess those things to him, that is in office over him, to the end that by him through the word of God and wholesome counsel he may be healed. So as by perfit faith and good works he may escape the pains of everlasting fire, and come to the rewards of life that endureth for ever. That he speaketh not of public, nor of confuse, or general confession of sins, which many can find in their hartes to make, and thereof be not ashamed, which their ghostly father knoweth no less then they before they come to confession, but of privy and particular confession: these words there following do plainly declare. Intrinsecus latens amaritudo peccati abijcienda prorsus& euomenda est. The bitterness of sin that lieth hid within, is utterly to be cast forth and vomited out. 
Dionys. Epist. 8.  Dionysius whom S. Paul converted to the faith, in his epistle ad Demophilum declaring the maner then used, which was that a sinner cast himself down at the feet of a priest and so made his confession: rebuketh him sharply, for kicking away of a wicked man that fell at the priestes feet, when as he made his confession shamefastly and demanded remedies for his sins. No man speaketh more plainly of secret confession then Origen, and that in sundry places, 
Origen.  to which for brevities sake I remit the reader. In. 2. ca. Leuitici. homil. 2. De principijs, lib. 3. In psal. 37. homil. 2. Where he compareth the state of a sinner to a man that hath evil and undigested humours in his stomach. And saith that as by remaining of such evil matter the man feeleth himself very sick, and by vomiting of it forth, he is eased: so the sinner by keeping his sins secret, is the more grievously charged in his own conscience, and standeth in danger to be choked with the fleme and humour of his sins. But if he accuse himself and confess his faults, he both vomiteth forth his sins and digesteth the cause of the same. S. Cyprian as in many other places, so most plainly speaketh of secret confession, Sermone 5. de lapsis. Although( saith he of certain devout persons) they be entangled with no great sin, 
Confession of evil thought,  yet because at least they thought of it, the same unto the priestes of God confess they sorrowfully and simply. They make confession of their conscience, they lay forth the burden of their mind. &c.  
Who so ever is not satisfied with these fathers that be most ancient, but desireth to see mo testimonies for private and secret confession: may it please him to red S. basil de regul. Monachor. quaest. 288. as one translation hath. S. Ambrose li. de paenitentia. Paulinus in the life of S. Ambrose. S. jerome in ecclesiasten. cap. 10. lo in two epistles. 57. ad Episcopos Campaniae, &c. and ad Theodorum episcopum. 69. Innocence the first in his epistle ad Decentium. cap. 7. S. Augustine treating of the power of the keys in many places, but specially of confession in psal. 60. Where speaking much of the necessity of confession, he saith thus. Why fearest thou to be confessed? If not being confessed thou remain hidden, not being confessed thou shalt be damned. And afterwards thus. To this end God requireth confession, to deliver the humble, to this end he damneth him that confesseth not, to punish the proud. Therefore be thou sorry before thou be confessed, being confessed, rejoice, thou shalt be hole. The testimonies of the learned doctors that haue most plainly written since four hundred and eight hundred yeres, be in maner infinite. every studious man may easily find them. By these and many other holy fathers, of whom there is no doubt but they had the holy ghost for their teacher and prompter of all truth: 
recital of all sins necessary.  the catholic church hath ben persuaded, that the recital and rehearsing of all sins before the priest is necessary to salvation, unless necessity for lack of a priest or otherwise, exclude us from it, and that a general confession in no wise sufficeth. For confession is not necessary either only for instruction of the things that pertain to our salvation, or for that the gospel may thereby be heard, as some of these new gospelers haue taught: but for that the merit and virtue of Christes passion may be imparted unto us by the sacrament of penance and absolution.  
Thus we haue declared, that sins which exclude us from the kingdom of God committed after baptism, though they be secret and of the heart only, be by Christ reserved to the iudgement of the keys of the church, and to the power of them to whom he said, 
joan 20.  who so euers sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them. &c. And that, forasmuch as this iudgement can not be exercised, without knowledge, neither knowledge of secret sins can be had without confession made by the doers of them, neither can they whom Christ hath put in authority give absolution to any, unless they see him prepared: true faith acknowledgeth that confession is to be made of all sins, as commanded by Christ and the Apostles, commended to us by the fathers of the primitive church, by all learned doctors and general use of the whole church. And if the express term of secret or auricular confession be seldom mentioned in the ancient fathers, as that of public confession is often times, as in the Nicene council, and in sundry other places: 
cap. 9.  that is nothing repugnant to the doctrine of the catholic church. For it is sufficiently shewed, not only by tradition of the fathers, but also by the testimony of the gospel, that confession of all and singular sins is to be made to a priest, which thing is of the necessity of the sacrament. But that it be public or secret, it hath ben left to natural prudency or devotion according to the disposition of the church.  
We say that the priest in deed is judge in this case, 
apology De paenitentia di. 1. ca. V●rbum dei.  but yet hath no maner of right to challenge an authority or power, as saith Ambrose.  
Whereas ye make preaching of the gospel to be the keys, how call ye the priest judge in this case? 
Confutation.  Preach ye never so much, the conscience of man being so secret a thing as it is: how can ye judge who inwardly and thoroughly repenteth, and who repenteth not? And though one repent and be sorry and haue remorse of his former life, though he look unto the light of the gospel, as ye say, and believe in Christ, what then? how can ye judge of such a person? Do ye know his hart by looking in his face? or must he not utter unto you his own inward affection, the scripture saying, no man knoweth the things of a man but the spirit of man, 
1. Cor. 2.  which is in man? 
The priest can not be a judge by only preaching the gospel.  Sith then your doctrine admitteth not confession, whereby ye might come to knowledge of any mans state, how say ye the priest is a judge in dede only by preaching the gospel, and by uttering the fastings and confortinges thereof? The priest duly using the key of knowledge and discretion doth the officie of a judge, and as he seeth cause, either looseth or bindeth. As touching the priestes authority or power, which to challenge he hath no right, for so your interpreter maketh you to speak, and impute it to S. Ambrose: 
De penitent. dist. 1. c. verbum dei, De spum sancto lib. 3. cap. 19. Lib. 1. de penitent. Cap. 2. vendicat.  we deny that S. Ambrose saith even very so. But as we may gather of his words, as he meaneth that a priest excerciseth not the right of any his own proper power in remitting sins: so in the very place by you alleged he saith the contrary to your doctrine. For the right of losing and binding( saith he) is granted to pristes only, and therefore the church challengeth it rightly, which hath true priestes. Lo he useth the word of challenge. again in the same place he avoucheth, that he which receiveth the holy ghost,( whom priestes receive when they be consecrated in the sacrament of order) receive also power to loose and bind sins. For proof thereof he allegeth the scripture. 
joan. 20.  Take ye the holy ghost, whose sins ye remit, they are remitted, and whose sins ye retain, they are retained. There he acknowledgeth as we also aclowledge, that the right in losing and binding of sins is the holy gostes. And yet he doth attribute the function thereof to the office of a priest. 
Vide Hieron. epist. ad Hedibiam. quaest. 9. to. 3.  And if you Defender were accustomend to make your humble confession and so to be assoiled, you should hear some ghostly fathers say to you after certain other words, auctoritate mihi commissa ego te absoluo, &c. Although we acknowledge the words uttered besides ego te absoluo not to be of necessity, touching the form of the sacrament, Yet thus the priestes confess humbly the authority which they exercise, to be by commission from Christ, not of themselves.  
And therfore our saviour Iesu Christ to reprove the negligence of the Scribes and Phariseis in teaching, 
apology  did with these words rebuk them saying: Wo unto you Scribes and Phariseis, which haue taken away the keys of knowledge, and haue shut up the kingdom of heaven before men. Seing then the key whereby the way and entry to the kingdom of God is opened unto us, is the word of the Gospel and thexpounding of the lawe and Scriptures, we say plainly, where the same word is not, there is not the key.  
The Scribes and pharisees at Christes coming into flesh had authority to teach the people and to declare unto them the lawe and Prophetes, 
Confutation.  which spake plainly of the coming of Christ. But because the people were shut out from the knowledge of Christ, wherein consisteth life everlasting and heavenly bliss, by the obscurity thereof as by a door, and those doctors according to the knouledge they had, would not by their interpretation declare the meaning of those scriptures, and as it were with a key opening that door led them to Christ,( which they did not of negligene as you say, but of covetise lest Christ being plainly known the sacrifices of the lawe should cease, whereby their gains grew, and sacrifices of righteousness come in place, whereby God should be better pleased, and they less enriched): therefore Christ rebuked them and charged them with taking away the key of knowledge, for that they opened not the gate of truth with their key, 
In mat. ca. 23.  which after the mind of Chrysostom is the knowledge of the scriptures, and so locked up messiah the son of God, that is to say the kingdom of God, from the people. By this we are induced to grant, that the knowledge of the scripture is a key, 
The knowledge of the scripture is a key.  whereby the gate to the truth is opened, the use whereof consisteth in expounding of the lawe and prophetes as they show Christ. But we say, this not to be the special keys which Christ gave to the church, but one key alone. And so Christ calleth it where he rebuked the Scribes and pharisees. Though you haue put it otherwise then the gospel hath in the plural number. And this key is common to the lawe and to the gospel. 
Difference between a key, and the keys. By the name of the keys what is meant. The power of the keys.  But the keys which we speak of are an other thing. By the name of these keys we understand the whole spiritual power which Christ first promised to Peter and afterward gave to the Apostles, and from them is transferred to all bishops and priestes. By which power priestes teach the gospel, consecrat the body and blood of Christ, administer the sacramentes, through authority of the word absolve penitents, and excommunicate public and heinous synners. The key that you confusely speak of naming it to be the word of the gospel and expounding of the lawe and scriptures, is one part pertaining to this spiritual power, it is not the whole power. And where this word is not, that is to say, where the scriptures be not taught and the gospel preached, there is not the key say ye, there is not the exercise of that key say we. Yet there is this spiritual power, that is to wit, there be the keys. Yea we say that a simplo priest though he haue no great learning, yet hath he the keys, though he might do better and more worthily use them, having learning and knowledge.  

apology  And seeing one maner of word is given to al, and one only key belongeth to al, we say there is but one only power of al ministers, as concerning opening and shutting.  
As there is one gospel, 
Confutation.  so there is one right expounding of the same, which is not the keys, though you call it the key, but a ministery belonging to the keys. Neither herein consisteth the whole power of ministers as is before said, and therefore ye are much overseen to term it one onely key.  
And as touching the bishop of Rome, 
apology  for al his Parasites flateringlie sing in his ears those words, To the will I give the keys of the kingdom of heaven,( as though those keys were fyt for him alone and for no body else) except he go so to work as mens consciences may be made pliaunte, and be subdued to the word of God, we deny that he doth either open or shut, or hath the keys at all.  
Your ground being false, 
Confutation.  what ye build thereon sone faileth. The whole power of the keys pardy( how often times must we tell you one thing?) standeth not in preaching only, but in sundry other excellent ministries also, as we haue proved. If the bishop of Rome preach not, he doth neither open nor shut by preaching, we grant. Yet mens consciences being made pliant and subdued by the word of God by others that preach at his appointment, he may by virtue of the keys either open or shut, loose or bind, as by discretio he seeth cause. And whereas Christ said to Peter and therefore to the bishop of Rome Peters successor, 
Mat. 16  to thee will I give the keys of the kingdom of heaven: will ye call them flattering parasites that yield to him that which Christ gave to him? Such vomit sheweth what humour your stomach is charged withall. Denying the B. of Rome, whom for all the spite ye bear toward him ye must aclowledge to be a bishop, to haue the keys at all, unless he preach in his own person, ye declare your great ignorance, and fowle temeritie. know ye not that a power annexed to an order and vocation is not taken away from one by not exercising the same in his own person?  
And although he taught and instructed the people( as would to 
apology  God he might once truly do and persuade himself it were at the least somme piece of his duty) yet we think his key to be never a whit better or of greater force then other mens. For who ha h severed him from the rest? who hath taught him more cunningly to open, or better to absolve then his brethren?  

Confutation.  If the Bishop of Rome be negligent and preach not in his own person or by others, he hath his judge, to whom we leave him and pray for him. But if he preach at any time, that office hath such measure of goodness and force as Christ giveth. Thereby one man may do more good then an other. Where ye say generally, who hath severed him? we answer. Our saviour christ, to whom all power is given in heaven and earth. 
Nat. 16.  Who to him principally in Peter said, To thee will I give the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and what so ever thou byndest in earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and what so ever thou losest in earth, shall be loosed also in heaven. To whom only in Peter he said, 
luke. 22. joan. 21.  thou being converted strengthen they brethren. To whom only he said, feed my sheep. Neither dependeth his supreme power and authority of cunning in opening or betternes in absolving, as your scoffing spirit uttereth, but of the special grant and commission of Christ, to whom who dareth say, 
Ecclesi. 8.  why dost thou thus, or why dost thou so?  

apology  We say that matrimony is holy and honourable in al sorts and states of persons, in the patriarchs, in the Prophetes, in the apostles, in holy martyrs, in the ministers of the church, and in Byshoppes, and that it is an honest and lawful thing( as Chrystome saith) for a man living in matrimony, to take vpon him therewith the dignity of a bishop.   

THE EIGHT CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  matrimony is holy and honourable in all persons and an undefiled bed, 
●iebre. 13.  as saith S. Paul. Yet is it not lawful for them to marye which either haue by deliberate vow dedicated almaner their chastity unto God, 
Of matrimony.  or haue received holy order. For the vowed be forbidden marriage by express word of God. Those that haue taken holy orders, by tradition of the Apostles and ancient ordinance of the church.  
Touching the first, the scripture is plain, 
Psal. 75.  because a vow is to be performed, vouete& reddite domino deo vestro. vow ye and pay( or render that ye vow) to your Lord God. Christ also saith in the gospel, 
Natt. 19.  there be some eunuchs that haue made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heauens sake. 
Vowe-breakers in what danger they stand. 1. Tim. 5.  He that can take, let him take. again S. Paul speaking of young widows, which haue vowed and promised chastity, saith, that when they wax wanton against Christ, they will marye, having damnation, because they haue broken their first faith. Whether these scriptures pertain hereto and be thus to be vnderstanded, we refer us to the primitive church, and to all the holy fathers. Who soever haue thus vowed chastity, or by receiving holy orders haue bound themselves to the bond of continency to the same by ancient constitution of the church annexed, 
Falling from vowed chastity worse then adultery. What the fathers haue judged of marriages after vow of chastity. De bono viduitatis. lib. de virginitate.  if afterward presuming to marye excuse the satisfying of their carnal lust with the name of wedlock, be they men, be they women: they live in a damnable state, and be worse then aduoutrers. Such marriages or rather slydinges and falls from the holier chastity that is vowed to God, S. Augustine doubteth not but they be worse then aduowtries. S. Cyprian calleth this case plain incest, S. basil accounteth the marriages of veiled virgins to be voided, of no force, and sacrilegious.  
She that hath despoused herself to our lord( saith S. basil) is not free. For her husband is not dead, that she may mary to whom she list. And whiles her immortal husband liveth, she shall be called an adulteress, which for lusts of the flesh hath brought a mortal man into our lords chamber. The case is like in the man.  
And whereas such persons with deliberate vow purposed to consecrate themselves to our lord only, maides by virginity, widows by chastity of widowhod, priestes by single life and continency they may not with good conscience marye because the lust of the flesh followeth not that former purpose, but draweth the soul to her vices from that whereto it is bound. For what so ever is the work( saith S. basil) before which reason and lawe goeth not in the mind, the same is of the conscience noted for unlawful. Of all such after many words uttered in reproof of their lewdness, he concludeth, that they follow not wedlock, but adultery. But for proof that vowed persons may not marye, it were not hard to allege so much out of the fathers, as would fill a volume.  

Clerke● bound to continency.  Touching the second, the Apostles forbid those that come single to the clergy, to marye, except such as remain in the inferior orders, and procede not to the greater, as we find in their canons. 
Li. 1. c. 11. Paphutius. Li. 1. ca. 23  Can. 25. Paphnutius as Socrates and Sozomenus record in their ecclesiastical story, said at the Nicene council, that it was an old tradition of the church, that such as come to the degree or order of priesthood single, should not marye wives. And this is that holy bishop Paphnutius, whom these evangelical vowebreakers pretend to be their proctor for their unlawful marriages.  

Siritius and Innotentius were not the first ordeiners of clerkes continency.  Neither Pope Siritius and Innocentius the first, who lived long above a thousand yeres past, were the first makers of the lawe that forbiddeth priestes to mary, but declaring that the same was of old time ordained and used of the church, they condemn the disorders against the same committed. read who list the epistle of Siritius ad Himerium Tarraconensem. cap. 7. the second epistle of Innocentius to Victricius bishop of Roen. cap. 9, and his third epistle to Exuperius B. of Tolouse. cap. 1. and weighing well these places he shall perceive, that these holy Popes forbade the ministers of the church the use of wedlock by the same reason, by which the priestes of Moses lawe were forbidden to come within their own houses in the time when their course came to serve in the holy ministries. By the same reason also by which S. Paul requireth married folk for a time to forbear the use of their wives, 
1. Cor. 7.  that they might attend praying.  
The place of Chrysostome alleged by this Defender well considered, 
answer to chrysostom place.  disproveth no part of the catholic doctrine in this behalf, but condemneth both the doctrine and common practise of his companions these new fleshly gospelers. His words be these vpon the saying of S. Paul, that a Bishop ought to be without crime, the husband of one wife. 
In. 1. cap. ad. Ti. homil. 2.  The Apostle( saith he) stoppeth the mouths of heretics which condemn marriage, showing that it is not an unclean thing, but so reverent, that with the same a man may ascend to the holy throne or seat( he meaneth the state of a bishop), and herewith he chastiseth and restraineth the vnchast persons, 
twice married may not be bishops, and why.  not permitting them who haue twice married, to attain such a rome. For whereas he keepeth no benevolence toward his wife deceased, how can he be a good governor? yea what grievous accusations shall not he be subject unto daily? For ye all know right well, 
Second marriages lawful, yet open to accusations.  that albeit by the laws the second marriages be permitted, yet that matter lieth open to many accusations. And therefore he would a bishop to give no occasion( of evil) to those that be under him. Thus Chrysostome. Where with S. Paul first he putteth to silence the Cerdonistes, Marcionistes, Seuerians, Tatians, Maniches, and all other heretics that condemned marriage, and said it was an impure thing. Secondly he alloweth matrimony so far, that he acknowledgeth a married man may ascend to a bishops seat. 
bigamy lawful rather then commendable.  Thirdly he putteth bigamy, that is to wit, marrying an other after the first or a widow, to be lawful rather then commendable. Now as we do not condemn marriage, neither deny but that married men in the primitive church and before the gospel was so generally received, as it was at length, were and might be called to the dignity of bishopric, when scarcetie and lack of single men worthy of that rome was found: so we see the impure bigamy of our holy gospelers condemned both by Chrysostome and S. Paul, 
The bigamy of the gospelers condemned by Chrysostom and Paul. Strompets.  of whom many being priestes and( as they say) bishops, at lest presuming to occupy that holy seat, for custody of their chastity after their former old yokefellows decease solace themselves with new strompetes. By a better name I would call them, if I wist I should not offend. For what woman so ever coupleth herself in such damnable yoking, how can she appear either to be honest, or to haue care of her soul health? As for the simplo that be deceived by the importunity and craft of those lurdens, as they are not to be born withall, so yet I think them to be pitied.  
But if this Defender press us with Chrysostome, we answer rhat though Chrysostome grant, that a married man may ascend to the holy seat, yet he saith not that a man may descend from that holy seat to the Bride bed. For we deny utterly, that any man after that he hath received holy orders, 
After holy orders received marriage never compted lawful among catholics. Priestes married in England in the time of Anselmus.  may marye. Neither can it be shewed that the marriage of such was ever accounted lawful in the catholic church. In dede we know that in germany and in England and certain other provinces at dissolute times, when the discipline of the church was shaken of, priestes haue ben married, as we read of the time in which Anselmus was bishop of canterbury. But that disorder was always by due correction of bishops punished and redressed. So that what soever Bale, Poinet, or any other of that filthy railing rabble bring out of Huldrike of Auspurg, Huntingdonensis, Capgraue, Chronica Chronicarum, or such other obscure and barbarous stories for witness of priestes manages, seing the same were by good rulers of the church at al times controlled and resisted, as unlawful and wicked, it is of no force nor authority. How, why, and when married men were admitted to be priestes, and where the profession of chastity and abstaining from company of their wives was required of them, and many other points touching the unlawful manages of priestes, who so ever is desirous to be amply instructed: the same I refer to a large treatise written hereof by a learned man in our own tongue. I think not good here to recite the things, that be so well treated already.  
And as Sozomenus saith of Spiridion: 
apology  and as nazianzen saith of his own father, that a good and diligent Bishop doth serve in the ministery never the worse for that he is married, but rather the better, and with more ableness to do good.  
Were it not that the weight of these matters required an upright and plain dealing, 
Confutation.  for ciuilities sake I could be content sometimes to spare you, and where ye make manifest lies, to use a softer word, and term them fittens. 
Lying much used of this defender.  But now if I tell you that you use your accustomend figure pseudologia which is lying in plain english: I trust you will bear with my plainness, amend your own fault, and consider the power of truth, that causeth me to be so bold with you. This I am sure of, that neither Sozomenus, nor gregory nazianzen nor Eusebius lib. 10. cap. 5. 
Sozomenus, gregory nazianzen, Eusebiu● belied by the author of the apology.  as you haue caused your books both latin and english to be noted in the margin, where ye mistake Eusebius for Rufinus: Nor nazianzen either in Monodia, as you note also in the margin, nor in the funeral oration that he made of his father, hath any such saying as ye report of them. For how could they say, that a bishop serveth in his ministery never the worse, but rather the better, and with more ableness to do good for that he is married, the scripture being so plain to the contrary? What, ween ye they were either so ignorant, or so forgetful, or so much inclined to promote your carnal doctrine of priestes marriages, as to say so, 
A bishop is not able to do his ministery the bett●r for that he is married to a wife.  not withstanding that S. Paul writeth to the Corinthians? Saith he not of them that be married, that such shall haue tribulation of the flesh? saith he not, he that is without a wife, careth for the things of our Lord, how he may please God? Of him that hath a wife saith he not, that he careth for the things that be the worlds, how he may please his wife, and is divided? finally saith he not, I tell you this thing for your profit, not to tangle you in a snare, but for that which is honest, and comely unto you, and that which may give you readiness to pray to God with out let? wherefore recant for shane that fowle error, that a bishop serveth the better in his ministery, and is the more able to do good, for that he is married. Verily here ye seem to be of the flesh rather then of the spirit. Neither are ye to be called any longer, if ye maintain this doctrine, spiritual men, as in times past they haue ben, whose romes ye occupy, but rather fleshly men. Such men, such doctrine, fleshly men, 
Fleshly men Fleshly doctrine.  fleshly doctrine. Neither see I, what ye can say for defence of this doctrine, unless ye bristle yourselves against S. Paul, and maugre his authority affirm impudently, that it is no let for a bishop from the service of God, to haue the tribulation of the flesh, that he may serve in his vocation better, taking care for the things that be the worlds, and seeking how to please his wife, then if he study for the things that be our lords, and seek how to please God: that a man may do more good, being by occasion of his wife divided and disstract, then being whole and in himself united: finally that a bishop shall serve the church better being entangled and clogged with worldly affairs, then having power and opportunity to pray to God without let.  
Now therefore see you not how great is your impudency in that you lie yourself, and father such a fowle lie vpon Sozomenus, and that light of the world in his time gregory nazianzen? 
The place o● Sozomen●● examined.  But for even dealing let us hear what Sozomenus saith concerning Spiridion. For Rufine in the tenth book added to Eusebius touching this matter, reporteth nothing but that he had a daughter name Irene, 
Cap. 5.  who died before her father a virgin. The words of Sozomenus be these. 
lib. 1. Cap. 11.  {αβγδ}. that is to say. Spiridion was a husbandman, having wife and children, and yet for all that he was never the worse about Gods service. Of this place we grant ye may say with Sozomenus, that Spiridion served God never the worse for that he was married. But how and whereof gather ye that he served God the better, and was more able to do good because of his marriage? Now Spiridion 
Spiridion  was a man of passing holiness, and in power and virtue surmounted all other men of his time, as one that wrought great miracles, and was taken for a prophet. For Rufine, where he compareth Paphnutius with the Apostles, seemeth to prefer Spiridion before him. 
Ecclesiast. Histo. lib. 10. cap. 4.& 5.  If this one saint of so great excellency being made bishop of a married man served God never the worse for that he was married: will ye therefore make a general doctrine, that bishops and priestes shall marye, and that thereby they shall be no whit hindered from Gods service? Spiridion obtained that privilege through especial grace by his exceeding virtue, which is granted to few. And the privileges of a few make not a lawe for all in general ye know, as nazianzen saith.  
Furthermore if the words of Sozomenus that ye build your carnal doctrine vpon be well examined, ye shall find, 
The place of Sozomenus alleged by the defender maketh utterly against them.  that he maketh more against you then with you. For signifying that he had wife and children, he addeth, {αβγδ}. Yet for al that he was never the worse about Gods service. This revocation or exception negative( yet for all that &c.) implieth a confession affirmitiue of the contrary. As though by reason the sentence should bear this meaning. He had wife and children, and therefore was less apt and able to serve God in bishoply ministery. If there were no repugnance between the state of a bishop, and marriage, but the having of a wife were a better abling of a man to serve in that vocation, as ye say: then Sozomenus neither would nor should haue used that maner of speech, {αβγδ},( as much to say yet for all that) but rather thus he should haue spoken, {αβγδ}, that this sense might rise of his words, Spiridion was a husbandman, having wife and children, and therefore he was the better disposed and readier to serve God.  

Nazianzenes words returned vpon the defender.  Neither maketh the place of gregory nazianzen any whit for you more, then this of Sozomenus doth: whose words be these after the translation of Raphael Voloterranus varying much from the greek. Hic Basilij pater Basilius item appellatus, etsi matrimonio se vinxit, ita tamen in eo vixit, vt nihil propterea ad perfectam virtutem ac philosophiam consequendam impediretur. Basiles father who was name also basil, although he put himself in bonds of matrimony, yet he lived so herein, as he was letted no whit from the attaining of harlot virtue and holy knowledge. Were not marriage a let and hindrance to perfection requisite in a bishop, this learned man could not rightly haue said, ita tamen in eo vixit, &c. yet for all that he lived so, &c. because the having of a wife is a hindrance to perfection, therefore of good reason in the praise of that holy bishop, who was married long before he took that degree, yet that not withstanding( saith this writer) he was not therefore letted from perfection. By which maner of speech he acknowledgeth marriage in others to be a let to perfection. Who understandeth not for what cause of these to speeches the one is reasonable, the other absurd: he is power, yet for all that liberal, and, he is power, yet for al that sparing? The like consideration duly conceived, returneth the authority by this Defender alleged against himself. For the like absurdity is in this saying, Basiles father was married, yet for al that he was not thereby letted from perfection: if for having a wife a man be the better able and readier to serve in the holy ministery of a bishop.  
Right so it is easy to put him from the hold he taketh of Chrysostome, by Chrysostome himself. For least any man should think, 
Tit. 1.  whereas S. Paul saith a bishop ought to be the husband of one wife, that the same order continueth still in the church, thereto he saith in his second homily de patientia job: non ea ratione quod id nunc in ecclesia obseruetur. Oportet enim omni prorsus castitate sacerdotem ornatum esse. S. Paul( saith he) required this not in consideration that the same be now observed in the church. For it behoveth a bishop to be garnished with all maner a chastity.  
Further we say, 
apology  that the same lawe which by constraint taketh away this liberty from men, and compelleth them against their wills to live single, is the doctrine of Dyuelles, as paul saith: and that ever since the time of this lawe, a wonderful uncleanness of life and manners in goddes ministers, and sundry horrible enormities haue followed, as the bishop of Augusta, as Faber, as abbess Panormitanus, as Latomus, as the Tripartite work which is annexed to the second Tome of the councils, and other champions of the Popes band, yea and as the matter itself and all histories do confess.  
There is no lawe in the church that by constraint taketh away from men liberty to mary. 
Confutation. 1. Cor. 7.  For S. Paules words be plain. If thou take a wife, thou synnest not. And likewise, If a virgin mary, she sinneth not. But if any persons haue of their own will and devotion vowed to God chastity, 
voluntary vow imbarreth lib●rtie of the contrary. 1. Tim. 5  the same haue imbarred themselves of this general liberty, and by their voluntary promise haue bound themselves never to mary. And in such not only marriage itself, but also a will to mary is damnable, as S. Paul saith of widows which haue vowed to live chased, that they haue their damnation( not for that they mary, but) for that they will mary. If the gospelers allege against this doctrine the words of S. Paul, if a virgin mary, she sinneth not: we answer with Chrysostome and other fathers, that a virgin by a vow of chastity dedicated to God, if she mary, doubtless she sinneth much, for that beside Christ she hath surmaried an adulterer. 
1. Cor. 7. Ad virginem lapsam. Cap. 5.  If they object, it is better to mary then to burn: Let S. Ambrose answer. Who saith, that this saying pertaineth to her that hath not promised, to her that is not yet veiled,( that is to say not yet entered into religion) but as for her( saith he) which hath promised herself to Christ, and hath taken the holy vail, she is already wedded, she is coupled to an immortal husband. And being in this case if she will wed after the common lawe of wedloke, she committeth adultery, she is made the handmaid of death. For this wedlock is far more excellent, then the corruptible wedlock, saith nazianzen. 
Oratione. 30.  Therefore who soever after vow of chastity deliberately made presume to mary, the same the church punisheth by just censures, by excommunication, open penance, and removing them from their ecclesiastical ministries, not for their marriage, but for breach of their vow.  
As the church suffereth not a man to mary an other woman, whiles his lawful wife liveth, so it suffereth not those to mary, who promising to abstain, and refusing to be coupled with any other, haue chosen Christ only for their spouse. And by restraining them from marriage, the church useth no tyranny, nor if it teach that such ought to forbear marriage, is that to be accounted the doctrine of devils, but of the holy ghost, 
The doctrine of devils what it is in this case.  whereby men are kept from wilful damnation. To forbid marriage wholly, universally, and altogether, that is the doctrine of devils. But to judge marriage for some state and order of less convenience, then the single life, or after vow of chastity made to require perpetual continency, this is not the doctrine of devils. For S. Paul himself did both. If these Defenders will not admit this answer, and being loth to forsake their fleshly pleasure pretend to be moved with the authority of S. Paul, 
1. Tim. 5.  who calleth the forbidding of marriage the doctrine of devils: I sand them to S. Augustine for an answer in his thirtieth book and sixth chapter against Faustus the Maniche. 
Who forbiddeth marriage.  Where for a sufficient solution of their objection, they shall find these plain words. Ille prohibet, qui hoc malum esse dicit, non qui huic bono aliud melius anteponit. That is to say. He forbiddeth( marriage) which saith it is evil. not he which prefereth an other better thing before this good thing. marriage and virginity or single life, both be good.( we confess). but abstaining from all experience of carnal knowledge is better and nearer to perfection, then the chamber-worke itself that is done lawfully for begetting of children.  
The church considering this according to the Apostles doctrine, 
Clerkes prohibited to marye by the church for better opportunity to serve God. Single life of clerkes.  forasmuch as wedlockeworke is a hindrance to high and divine services, hath thought good to restrain such as dedicate themselves to the holy ministries, from the same, prohibiting them to mary, and requiring them to lead the single life. By single life I mean that, which observeth the vow of chastity, not only the unmarried state, in which many keep themselves not very chased, as of such a one it is said by way of a common proverb in French, that he is neither priest, nor husband, nor a dead man. And therefore none be admitted to the three holy orders, but such as promise chastity. Now that I may show in what time, and by what persons this lawe of single life was ordained, for brevities sake I will content myself with witness of one only council. Which is the second council of Carthage holden in the time of Valentinian and Theodosius the Emperours. Where we find that this order was taken by the Apostles themselves, and that the antiquity observed and kept the same. The words of the council be these, canone. 2.  

Single life of certain degrees of ministres tauhgt by the Apostles and kept by thantiquitie.  Aurelius episcopus dixit, &c. Aurelius the bishop said. Whereas in the council before this it was treated of the rule of continency and chastity, these three degrees through their consecrations be annexed to chastity by a certain decree written, to wit bishops, priestes, and deacons. Whom it is thought good, as it becometh the holy prelates and priestes of God, and likewise levites, or such as attend upon holy sacramentes, to be continent and chast in every condition, to thintent they may simply obtain that they pray to god for, that we keep and observe that which the Apostles haue taught, and the antiquity hath kept. Lo sir Defender here you and all your companions that haue vowed chastity, and yet can not live without their loving yokefelowes, haue right good and ancient witness, that the single life of ministers of the holy sacramentes was taught by the Apostles, and kept in ure by the antiquity. Then how far go ye from truth, right, and reason, in that ye call it the doctrine of devils?  
And whereas you say, that of this single life, great uncleanness and enormities haue followed: so we say that in Paules church at London commonly, and specially since the time it was first builded, many idle and wicked tales haue ben told, many oaths and blasphemies haue ben uttered, many unjust bargains haue ben made, many naughty frays haue ben begun, and sundry other enormities committed: yet is that church Gods house, appointed to be a place of prayer, and to serve for holy uses. As we like not your railing against the lawe of chastity and gods ministers, so we do not defend evil and sinful life. What if the bishop of Augusta find fault whith priestes lives?( which Augusta, and which bishop there ye mean I know not, neither well can I know except I saw your notebooke) what if the Abbot Panormitane, what if one Faber, and one Latomus, 
Though priestes evil life be complained of by some, yet priestes marriage by them is not allowed.  men of our time( I trow) and that zealous man which wrote the little tripartite treatise annexed to the lateran council, what so ever he was: what if all these( I say) moved with a zeal and being desirous of the clergies reformation, lamentably complain of their loose life? what then? Many good men complain of disorder and abuses of things, yet will not they either the things to be taken away, or good ordinances to be changed. But this is your wisdom against God and his church. Ye had rather find fault with the church, then amend the church. Ye seek the utter ruin of it, ye love not the good order of it. If ye had better authors to allege against the single life of the clergy then these be, we should haue ben told of them or this, and al the pulpits of England should haue rung of thē. Now these be of small estimation. Neither can you finde any plain matter in them against that you go about to impugn. Gete you fairer painted and better filled boxes then these be, or else shall ye all be taken for poor potticaries.  
For it was rightly said by pus the second a bishop of Rome, 
apology  that he saw many causes why wives should be taken away from priestes, but that he saw many more, and more weighty causes why they ought to be restored them again.  
Yea mary it standeth you vpon to allow such sweet sayings wherein ye imagine a good word to be spoken for your wives. 
Confutation.  A man would think that readeth but your words and doth not examine them by the place alleged, that by the mind of Pope pus, priestes haue ben put from their wives, and that they might be admitted to haue wives. The truth is. Such as were made priestes being married men in the primitive church, by no laws could they ever be forced to leave their wives, and once being made priestes, it was never heard of that lawfully afterward they married. Then how could pus say as ye report of him? 
The saying of Pope pus falsified by the Defender, weighed.  verily neither pus the second ever said so, nor Platina his words give that sense. Platina in the end of this good Popes life, having declared his worthy acts, at length setteth forth also his notable sayings. Which he was wont to utter in his dialy talk, in prouerbij modum, that is to say, after the maner of a common said saw, for with that preface he commendeth them. Wherein he followed plutarch, Diogenes Laertius, and other writers of lives. In Platina ye shall finde these words, for one of that Popes sayings. Sacerdotibus magna raetione sublatas nuptias, maiori restituendas videri. As much to say in english: that marriage was taken from priestes with great reason, and that it seemed it were to be restored again with greater. This saying reporteth not that wives were taken away from priestes as you report, neither that wives ought to be restored to priestes again. It speaketh only of marriage, which as before a man enter into holy orders no vow being made is lawful: so by orders taken a vow of chastity being solemnly made, is utterly unlawful. If this saying had made so much for your pretensed marriage as ye would men to believe, ye would never haue falsefyed it by such change of words. Whether it be more expedient, such as come to the clergy to be required to lead the single life, and to bind themselves thereto by vows, or to enjoy the common liberty of marriage, that we leave to the church to discuss and order. By private authority any man to break the common ordinance of old time constituted by the church, and yet standing in force, and rashly to break his vow it is damnable.  
If pus saw many weightier causes for priestes to haue wives, then for their single life, as ye pretend he did: why did not he, or you in his stede show us what and how substantial they be? If they be no better then you and your fellows haue uttered in your sermons and writings hitherto, they are not worth a pipt nootte. This saying of pus is well to be weighed and scanned. That priestes generally lived a clean life, it is much to be wished. Whether that cleans which is requisite to such high ministery may be procured by having wives, it is doubted, verily the ancient fathers of the church thought the contrary. again it is much to be considered, whether it be expedient for the lightness sake of certain, to abrogate so holy an ordinance, and to change so good a custom, or rather by severe discipline to bring the lewd and disordered to good rule. What so ever shall or may be done the one way or the other by authority of holy church, this are we assured of, that what so ever shall become of your lay ministers, such as heretofore haue vowed chastity, and so haue received holy orders: must needs put away their unlawful yokefelowes, continue single, and perform their promise to God, if they look to escape everlasting damnation, which S. Paul in this case thretneth. 
1. Tim. 5.  Neither is this institution of single life in the church devilish, as you report, forasmuch as it is not to the prejudice of matrimony, but to the profit of the gospel.  
We receive and embrace all the canonical Scriptures, 
apology  both of the old and new Testament, giving thankes to our God, who hath raised up unto us that light which we might ever haue before our eyes, least either by the subtlety of man, or by the snares of the devil we should be carried away to errors and lies. Also that these be the heavenly voices, whereby God hath opened unto us his will, and that onely in them mans heart can haue settled rest: that in them be abundantly and fully comprehended al things what soever be needful for our salvation, as origen, Augustine, Chrysostom and Cyrillus haue taught: That they be the very might and strength of God to attain to salvation: That they be the foundations of the Prophetes and Apostles, whereupon is buylte the church of God: That they be the very sure and infallible rule, whereby may be tried whether the Church doth stagger or err, and whereunto all ecclesiastical Doctrine ought to be called to account: and that against these scriptures neither lawe nor ordinance, nor any custom ought to be hard, no though paul his own self or an angel from heaven should come and teach the contrary.   

THE NINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  But why do ye not here plainly declare which be the books of the scriptures that ye allow, and which be they that ye reject? In general ye say that ye embrace all the canonical scriptures, 
2. Maca. 12.  yet if a man press you with the place of the maccabees for prayer to be made for the dead, and with the words of S. james epistle against your justification of faith onely, 
jacob. 2.  and likewise with certain other places of the scriptures, which be accounted in the Canon of the church against certain other your false doctrines: in this case your wont is to deny those scriptures to be canonical. Yet here ye bear the world in hand ye allow al. Would God ther were in you either more truth, or less craft. well, ye give thankes to God for the scriptures, for that having them before your eyes ye are stayed in truth, assured that by subtlety of man or snares of the devill, ye be not carried away into errors and lies. And is it so in dede? I pray you sirs of what sect be ye? or of which sect is each one of you? For I dare boldly say, and so the world seeth, that ye agree not all in one. If ye say ye be Lutherans, then must I further demand of you, of which sort of Lutherans. For that puddle runneth out by many synckes. Be ye zwinglians, Arians, Osiandrines, Libertines, Adiaphoristes, Anabaptistes, calvinists, or Sathanistes? All these and other sects of heretics that either be now, or haue ben in times past, say as ye say, that by the scriptures and Gods holy word they haue ben kept from errors and lies, and that by them they prove their doctrines. 
All sects of heretics challenge the scriptures for the warrant of their opinions.  But may we believe them? If they or any of those sects whose doctrine fighteth against your doctrine( as all heresies fight one against an other and join together against the church) say truth, then is your saying false. For contradictories( your logic telleth you pardy) can not together be true, If all they be deceived,( for so must you answer in your defence) what proof bring ye, that ye be not also deceived? What privilege haue ye before your fellows? A match being made between you( I mean that new clergy of England) and the other sects of our time, ye and they being set together as cocks in a cockefight, if in disputation with them ye would challenge to yourselves the light of the scriptures from all the rest, of which every one craketh no less then yourselves: lord howe should ye poor souls be handled? Were ye not like trow ye to be driven out of the place whith cries, spittes and scratches? 
disagreeing of heretics among themselves, is an argument they be not directed by the light of the scriptures  If ye haue this light of the scriptures before your eyes, how is it that ye agree not within yourselves? Yea how is it that each one of you oftentimes disagreeth with himself? how is it that so many times ye haue changed your communion book, the order of your service, your doctrine of the blessed sacrament, your homilies,& c? Who knoweth not how in the matter of the Sacrament your chief capitaines haue shewed themselves inconstant and mutable, and contrary to themselves, I mean Cranmare, Ridley, Latimer, and that great Rabbin Peter Martyr himself? As for the rest, they be not worthy to be name. But whether runneth my pen? I think it better to stay myself by time in this point, wherein any man may sooner find matter of talk, then end of talk.  
But what, say ye? be these the heavenly voices whereby God hath opened unto us his will? Then how dare ye to transgress his will declared in these voices, where ye read expressly, that he which heareth not the church, is to be taken for no better, 
mat. 18.  then a heathen and a publican? In what regard can good men haue you, which so vily and so contemptuously demean yourselves toward the church Christes spouse, which he hath so willed to be heard and regarded? How hear ye God in these heavenly voices, which hear not the church, that these voices command you to hear? 
luke. 10.  What so ever ye say, ye embrace the scriptures so far as they serve your fancies and lusts. Many other the like objections might here be made unto you. But this one for all. As ye procede, ye say, that only in the scriptures mans heart can haue settled rest, and that in them be abundantly and fully comprehended all things what so ever be needful for our salvation, as Origen, Augustine, Chrysostome, and Cyrillus haue taught. Either you know not what you say sir Defender, nor the things of which you make affirmation, 
1. Tim. 6.  as S. Paul said of such as ye are, writing to Timothe, or you are foully overseen. If the heart of man haue settled rest in the scriptures only, 
Mans hart hath not settled rest in scriptures only.  as you say, then in nothing else but in the scriptures. By this you seem to trouble and disquiet many hartes. For if this be true, thē had good Abel no better rest in his heart, then wicked restless Cain. Then had the hart of Adam notwithstanding the sweet and comfortable promise of God concerning the seed of the woman that should bruise the serpentes head, no better rest, then had his miserable body by Gods sentence condemned to toil and labour against brakes, 
Gen. 3.  brambles, and briars of the earth for his sin. Then had holy father Noe, who had his name of rest and quiet, as the skilful in the Hebrew tongue do find, nor his two godly sons, nor Abraham, Isaac, and jacob, the dere friends of God, nor any of all Gods people any settled rest in their hartes: until the time that one had put his hand to the book, to writ parte of that we aclowledge to be holy scripture, were he job as some think, were he moses, for before that time was no scripture written. And after that the scriptures were by providence of God set forth in writing both in the time of the lawe and of the gospel, all good and godly men could not haue their hartes settled in rest by your doctrine, to whose eyes and ears scripture came not. When the holy book of scripture was lost, which God restored by Esdras, were there none in all that time whose hartes had settled rest? What foolish and absurd doctrine is this? What if it had pleased God there had never ben letter written of the old or new testament? should not Gods friends haue found his peace that passeth all sense, 
Philip. 4.  as S. Paul saith? Had Paul, Antony, Hilarion, Pambus, and many other holy men living in wilderness without letters no rest no quiet at their hartes? Nay who had the like?  
And whereas you say that all things needful for our salvation be abundantly and fully comprehended in the scriptures, this is also as false, 
That all things necessary to salvation be not contained in the scriptures.  as sundry other partes of your doctrine. For if all things necessary to salvation be contained in the scriptures, then what so ever is not in them contained, the same is not necessary, if not necessary, why should we be laden whith unnecessary burdens? Then away with all traditions at a clap, be they never so apostolic, never so ancient, never so healthful, never so longetime in the church continued. 
Traditions necessary  Remember you not what the most renowned fathers haue written of the necessity of traditions? Or if you remember them, what thought you when you wrote thus? Let learned and holy basil be heard in stede of many, if not to revoke you from your error, yet to discredit you, and stay others in the truth. 
Lib. de spiritu sacto cap. 27.  His words be these. Of the doctrines which be preached in the church, certain we haue out of the scripture written, certain we haue received in secret mystery by tradition of the apostles, which both be of equal force to godliness. Neither concerning these any man gain saith, be he of never so small knowledge. For if we go about to reject the customs that be not set forth in writing, as being of little regard: then shall we condemn those things also which we haue in the gospel necessary to salvation. Yea rather we shall bring the preaching of the faith but to a bare name. 
Lib. 3. Cap. 4.& li. 4. c. 43.  Thus far S. basil. To whom a man may well join. Irenaeus and 
Lib. de corona militis.  Tertullian, who plainly do affirm that the ordinances of the church not received in writing, be of no less force, then if they had ben written by the Apostles. Many other ancient fathers might for proof hereof be recited, but we will not in a thing not doubtful use many witnesses. S. Paul himself for proof of traditions is sufficient. Who writing to the Thessalonians, 
2. Thess. 2.  saith: keep ye the traditions which ye haue received either by epistle or by word. Of this and many other places that might be alleged, it is clear, that such as haue condemned traditions, 
deniers of traditions holden for heretics. fast of Lent.  the church hath justly and for good cause adiudged for heretics. For so they were taken for heretics, which regarded not the solemn fast of Lent received at the Apostles, as we read in S. Augustine de haer. ad Quoduultdeum, cap. 53. and in the council of Gangra in an epistle to the bishops of armoniac. even so they which denied the distinction of a bishop and a priest, were condemned of heresy as we find in S. Augustine in the book and chapter aforesaid, and in Epiphanius lib. 3. Cap. 75. In the council of Constance the same is to be found.  
again if all things necessary to salvation be expressed in the scriptures, 
1. Cor. 11.  to what purpose said S. Paul concerning order and maner to be used at the celebration of the holy sacrament: Caetera cum venero disponam, as for other things I will take order for them, when I come? what meaneth S. John to say, 
Epist. ●.  having other things to writ to you of, I would not( writ them) in paper and ink: for I trust to be with you and speak to you mouth to mouth. To conclude much that might be objected in few words for brevities sake, what say you sir Defender, shal we find all things necessary to salvation in the scripture? 
By scripture itself we know not the partes of the scripture to be scripture, but by tradition of the church.  How think you of the scripture itself, how know you this to be the scripture, how know ye the gospel of matthew, mark, Luke, and John, to be theirs, whose names they bear? This can you not find in all the scripture, and yet is the same necessary to be believed. What scripture haue you to admit these, and to refuse the book bearing name of Peter, the gospel of Thomas, of Barthelemew, of Nicodem? Why admit you not the prophetes that Basilides would to be allowed, but only the four great, and the twelve lesser? What authority haue you to stay yourself by concerning these: but only that of the church? for scripture haue you none for proof hereof. Then hath not scripture all things in it necessary for a christen man. Is it not necessary to believe the son of God to be Homousion, that is to say, 
Homousion.  of the same substance with the Father? which if you deny, you restore the old condemned heresy of the Arians. 
Great and necessary points to be believed not expressed in scripture.  the same can you not find in the scripture. Where in all the Bible find you that god the Father is ingenitus? where find you that the holy ghost proceedeth from the Father and the son? that the blessed virgin Marye continued in her virginity? that such as be baptized of heretics ought not to be baptized again, that infants ought to be baptized? that the four books of the gospels were written by matthew, mark, Luke, and John, by what scripture can you prove it? To end, where find you expressly in all the scriptures three persons to be one god? No in them you find not so much as the name of person, nor the name of trinity. What will you therfore stand in opinion that the belief of those points is not necessary? I ween ye be not yet altogether come so far. Then if this doctrine be necessary, and the same not contained in the scriptures, you must needs recant, and grant that you denied: that many things of belief necessary to our salvation be not expressed in the scriptures, but be received and holden by tradition of the church no less necessary, then the things written. To the empty names of Origen, Chrisostom, Augustin, and Cyrillus, I think it not needful to answer. When you show us their words, an answer will soon be framed. That for this your doctrine ye haue no substantial place or saying out of them to bring, it is well known.  

apology  moreover we allow the sacramentes of the church, that is to say certain holy signs and ceremonies which christ would we should use, that by them he might set before our eyes the mysteries of our salvation, and might more strongly confirm our faith, which we haue in his blood, and might seal his grace in our hartes. And those sacramentes together with Tertullian, Origen, Ambrose, Augustine, jerome, Chrisostom, basil, dionysius, and other catholic fathers do we call figures, signs, marks, or badges, prints, copies, forms, seals, signettes, similitudes, patterns, representations, remembrances, and memories. And we make no doubt together with the same doctors to say, that those be certain visible words, seals of righteousness, tokens of grace.   

THE TENTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  With what face say ye that ye allow the Sacramentes of the church? Haue ye not abandoned almost all the sacramentes of the church? retain ye any mo by name of the sacramentes then two, 
The sacramentes abandoned of the defenders save two, bapt and their lords supper.  baptism and your supper of the lord? Of which the one, after that doctrine as it is by you taught and ministered, availeth nothing but to your further condemnation. The other, I mean baptism, though ye varie from the ancient maner observed in all christendom since the apostles time to these dayes, and omit certain holy rites used in the primitive church at the administration of it: yet for the necessity of it, is vaileable and of force, so that your ministers keep the due form of words according to christes institution. Touching this point of doctrine, what so ever ye say, forasmuch as the chief doctors whom ye follow, the Lutherans and zwinglians disagree much within themselves about it, and ye are enemies to the holy sacramentes, and by your teaching bring the people to a false opinion concerning the same, saying that ye say, without scriptures, without any testimonies of the fathers, yea contrary to the manifest definitions of councils: who regardeth his own salvation, so little, that will give you credite? And therfore I think it not good to weary the reader with tedious discussion and refelling of every falsehood by you in this matter uttered, and by your fellowes commonly taught.  
The sound and true doctrine which the catholic church holdeth and believeth touching this point, is this. 
The sound and true doctrine of the sacramentes. seven sacramentes.  That there be seven sacramentes in which under coouer of visible things the power of god worketh mans health. They be these. baptism, confirmation, the sacrament of the altar, penance, extreme unction, order, wedlock. And these so we call sacramentes, as nevertheless we aclowledge the name of sacrament may be extended to many other things. 
Sacrament what it signifieth.  That it be known what a sacrament is, this word Sacrament signifieth sometime a holy thing, sometime the sign of a holy thing instituted by God. As it is taken for a sign only, so is it found generally not only in the new lawe, but also in the old lawe. But in the new lawe those signs after a peculiar and special maner be called Sacramentes, which do not only signify a holy thing, but also do sanctify and make holy those, to whom they be adhibited, being such as by institution of Christ contain grace in them and power to sanctify. 
Definition of a sacrament.  Whereof a sacrament is by the best learned divines defined to be a visible sign of invisible grace, so as it bear the image of it, and because of the same. For the plain understanding of this definition, how a Sacrament beareth the form, sign, or image of invisible grace, it appeareth evidently in baptism, where washing of the body sheweth the cleansing of the soul. Also in the Sacrament of the altar, where the forms of bread and wine outwardly represent the spiritual nourisshing of the soul. The like appeareth in other Sacramentes.  

The sacramentes of the new lawe contain grace in thē. joan. 5. Bethesda.  Neither is it a new and strange doctrine to say, that the sacramentes of the gospel contain grace in them, for the fathers teach the same not seldom. Chrysostom expounding the mystery of the pool called Bethesda in Hebrew, that was in jerusalem: saith that sick folk were healed at the moving of the water, to thintent men might be brought to understand the virtue of baptism. For then was it coming to pass( saith he) that baptism should be full of power and grace. 
Cap. 5.  S. Ambrose in his book de Sacramentis speaking of baptism, saith it is not every water that healeth, but that water healeth, which hath the grace of Christ. Cyrillus vpon the foresaid chapter of John saith, that in baptism it is not water simply that worketh, but when as it hath received the grace of the holy ghost. S. Augustin in a sermon saith, that water in baptism is enriched with a more gift in maner, 
Sermone dominicae intra octauas epiphaniae. In sermone de baptism Christi.  then was the virgin Mary. For she( saith he) deserved chastity to herself, this hath given to us sanctification. she deserved that she sinned not, this that it might purge sins, It is said universally by S. Cyprian of all the sacramentes, that the fat of Gods anoincting poureth fullness of grace into the ministerial sanctifications, whereby he meaneth the sacramentes. And right well be the sacramentes reported to haue and contain that, which with so great fullness is powred into them. 
How sacramentes contain grace and power to sanctify.  Yet we mean that they contain grace and power to sanctify, after such maner of speaking, as we say of potions and drinks, prepared for sick persons, that they contain health, to the working whereof they be effectual. Or elles as Chrysostome and Cyrillus do expound, as the water of the pool Probatica troubled at the coming down of the Angel, contained power to heal all maner of infirmity. 
Sacramentes do not only signify, but also work and cause that they signify, as an instrumental cause.  And as it is said of the sacramentes that they contain grace, so is it likewise said, that through their virtue which they haue by Gods institution, they do not only signify( as by these Defenders doctrine that seemeth to be their special office) but also with signification work and cause, as an instrumental cause, the effect of that which they signify.  
The divine power God himself, who is the principal cause of all grace, like as he used the bodily touch of Christ as an instrumental power to heal the leprous man, the widow of Naim her dead son, 
mat. 8. luke. 7. mat. 9.  the wooman that had the bloody flix, the princes daughter, the two blind men, and sundry others: so in the church he useth the sacramentes of the new lawe, by which he dispenseth to the faithful the benefit of his passion, as a mean or instrument to work that which they signify. And those sacramentes, which God useth not as a mean or instrument to work any effect by, but to signify any effect only, be signs only, 
4. Reg. 4.  of which sort is the touch of Elisaeus the prophet, when he stretched himself over the dead body of the Sunamite womans son. For that touch had not any power to work a miracle as the touch of Christ. 
Power given to sacramentes to work that they signify, by Gods ordinance. joan. 11. The defenders do attribute to the sacramentes no more but signification.  After which maner, God hath given to the sacramentes of the new testament, that they work the thing signified through virtue given them by Gods ordinance to special effects of grace. As to the voice of Christ he gave power by calling to raise Lazarus. Now here do these Defenders aclowledge the signification of the sacramentes, which is lesser, and speak not of their virtue and grace by them wrought, which is greater, and that they be marks, tokens, patterns &c. For that as followeth how the blessed sacrament of the altar hath of sundry fathers ben called a figure, a sign, an image, a pattern, a sampler &c: which also we aclowledge in the other sacramentes, and what their meaning is therein: I haue sufficiently declared in mine answer to M. Iuelles challenge in the 12. Article. Would God our aduersaries had as good an opinion of the grace, power, and virtue of the sacramentes, as they be ready to declare, that they be signs, tokens, marks etc. Which as we deny not, so we require them to confess the other, wherein they seem to follow the Arians, who confessing many high things of Christ, and speaking largely of his divine endoumentes, would never confess him to be true God of true God.  

apology  And we do expressly pronounce, that in the Lords supper there is truly given unto the believing, the body and blood of the Lord, the flesh of the son of God, which quickeneth our souls, the meate that cometh from above, the food of immortality, grace, truth, and life. And the supper to be the communion of the body and blood of Christ, by the partaking whereof wee be revived, wee be strengthened, and be fed unto immortality, and whereby we are joined, united, and incorporate unto Christ, that we may abide in him and he in vs.   

THE ELEVENTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  What ye pronounce of this high sacrament, the wise and careful tenderers of their souls will be right ware thereof. Of you and such as ye be, because your doctrine is but of a corner of the world in respect of the universal church, Christ hath given us a watchword, 
mat. 24.  Nolite credere, believe thē not. In your the lords supper, 
The sacramentaries lords supper.  celebrated by the ministers of your own creation, there is not given the body and blood of our Lord neither to the believing, nor to the unbelieving. For at the celebration of your schismatical supper, no consecration being done, nor faith of the church, nor right intention had, nor Christes institution observed, what deliver ye to your communicants but a piece of bread and a sip of wine? Neither is it your will it be more or better. At the supper of our Lord ministered in the catholic church by priestes rightly consecrated, and as it hath ben accustomend in Christes church: there is the true and whole body of our Lord and saviour given and received, be the receivers believing or not believing: albeit I see not how we may justly call christen people not believing. For the truth of the inward thing of this holy sacrament, which is our lords body, is made present by the omnipotency of his word, and dependeth not of the receivers belief. Neither is his precious body there present or absent according to the belief or unbelief, worthiness or unworthiness of the receivers. 
Iudas received Christes true body of Christ no less then thapostles. Matth 26. Chrysost. homil. de proditione judae. Aug. in psal. 10. Theodorit. in 1. Cor. 11. heretical doctrine set forth with hypocritical eloquence. The old practise of heretics by fair utterance of truth to gete them entrance to lying. De trinit. lib. 6.  For when Christ gave this sacrament to his disciples at his last supper after that he had consecrated the same, saying take ye, eat ye, this my body: Iudas the traitor as the fathers teach, received his true body nolesse then Peter, Andrew, John, or james did, though they to their salvation, he to his damnation.  
Now it is to be noted, how this Defender in this long sentence affecteth a certain holy( as it were) and solemn eloquence, and useth a religious amplification of words to set forth the sacrament, as though he had a reverent and a godly opinion of it: whereas in dede he taketh it but for a poor sign or token, as their doctor Zuinglius doth. But such is their craft to purchase them credite among the people. Who of simplicity deme all such to mean well, that make resemblance of good meaning by speaking good words, for lack of understanding not perceiving fraud intended. Thus offer they to the vnlerned their fair cups full of venom, anointing the brimmes with honey of sweet and holy words, the rather to poison them. Such complaint maketh the grave father S. Hilary against the Arians of his time. Ingerunt nobis primum nomina veritatis, vt virus falsitatis introeat. Bonum in ore est, vt de cord malum subeat. First( saith he) they thrust me forth words of truth, that the venom of falsehood may enter in. Good is in their mouth, that out from the heart may evil procede. And among all these words( he meaneth the Arians confession of their faith) I hear no where by them said, Deum Dei filium, God the son of God. Right so among all these fair words concerning the sacrament, we hear never a whit said of the real presence of Christes body. 
Contra Ari omanitas haeresi. 69. De gratia Christi cont. Pelagium& Celest. lib. 1. cap. 32. Matth. 13.  Epiphanius noteth the like craft in Arius, and so doth S. Augustine in the Pelagians. Nestorius likewise spake honourably in many places of Christ and his mother. But nowhere would he call her {αβγδ}, that is, the mother of God. The Iewes also as we find in the gospel, called our saviour Iesus the Carpenters son, confessed Mary to be his mother, james, joseph, Simon, and Iude, his brothers, and that his sisters were among thē( by whom his kinnesfolke are to be vnderstanded) but the son of God they would not aclowledge him, nor in that degree honour him. Better then to those Iewes can I not compare these Defenders, who speak honourably of our lords body an blood in their supper: but that his body is really, that it is verily in the sacrament of the altar, that will not the devill who reigneth in their hartes, suffer their mouths to utter.  

apology  Besides we aclowledge there be two sacramentes, which wee judge properly ought to be called by this name, that is to say baptism, and the sacrament of thankes giving. For thus many we see were delivered and sanctified by Christ, and well allowed of the old fathers Ambrose and Augustine.  
Why speak ye not plainly? 
Confutation. The defenders aclowledge but two sacramentes. In confess. Cap. 4. Sectione 36. Articles set forth by the new English clergy. diversity of iudgement in the gospelers about the number of sacramentes. Melanchthon disagreeth with himself.  Be there no mo but two sacramentes? Though ye say not so expressly, yet we judge that so ye mean. For so your scoolefelow of Geneua Theodore Beza pronounceth in plain terms in the confession of your genevian faith. And so yourselves Defenders do affirm in the articles which ye agreed upon in your conuocation holden at London in the year of our lord. 1562. which articles ye haue put forth in print by the queens authority, as ye prentend. Now whereas ye aclowledge there be but two sacramentes, why should any man believe you rather then the germans your first scoolemaisters, who in their confession exhibited to Charles the fifth then Emperour at Augspurg in the name of all the protestantes anno. 1530. appoint three sacramentes, baptism, the Eucharist, and penance? The next year after, Philip Melanchthon in his apology avouched those three sacramentes, but afterward in the year. 1552. he found out an other, and made up the number of four, by adding the sacrament of order to the foresaid three. In Lipsia they receive three, in Wittenberg, which city is not thence far of, they haue four. At Magdeburg thereby also Flacius Illyricus and so many as follow him, will haue but two, and the Zwenckfeldians that spring out of the same stock care for none at all. I think wise men, and they that haue care of their soul health, will rather stay themselves by the catholic church, 
1. Tim. 3.  which as S. Paul saith is the pillar and ground of truth, then by these renegates and apostates, that following their own fantasies know not where to settle.  
Forasmuch as ye allege the names of the old fathers for you, specially S. Ambrose and Augustine, 
That there be mo sacramentes then two by the doctrine of the fathers. Ca. 10 4. The sacrament of confirmation.  that there be but two sacramentes, let us see how much they make for maintenance of your doctrine, and whether they teach us not, that there be mo. S. Augustine in his second book contra literas Petiliani, speaking of the place of the psalm, Sicut unguentum in capite, which the heretic had alleged, saith thus. In hoc vnguento, &c. In this oinctement his will is to interpret the sacrament of chrism( he meaneth the sacrament of confirmation) which in the kind of visible signs is holy, as baptism is. Lo. S. Augustine calleth confirmation a sacrament. S. Eusebius Pope nameth it a sacrament in his third epistle written to all the bishops of Tuscia and Campania. Manus impositionis Sacramentum, &c. The sacrament of imposition of hands( saith he) is to be kept with great reverence, which can not be performed but by the high priestes,( he understandeth bishops). Melchiades next to sylvester before the Nicene council speaking much of confirmation, among other things saith thus. dvo haec Sacramenta, Baptismi& confirmationis separanda non sunt. These two sacramentes of baptism and confirmation may not be sundered. Though these two bishops were Popes, yet they deserve credite forasmuch as they lived before that corruption crept into the church after your account, and dyed holy Martyrs.  

The sacrament of penance. Cap. 66. Homil. 20 in epist. ad Heb.  That penance is a sacrament and so accounted among the fathers, it is so evident, that who doubteth of it, may seem not to haue perused their writings. S. Augustine in enchiridio ad Laurentium Speaking of baptism and penance, calleth both salutaria sacramenta, healthful sacramentes. Chrysostome nameth penance a sacrament. S. Ambrose signifieth himself to be of the same mind, in his first book de paenitentia. cap. 6.& .7. and in the second book, cap. 2. though without putting thexpresse name of sacrament. But in the third chapter of that book he putteth the name of sacrament expressly.  
Touching Order, 
The sacr. of Order.  that is a sacrament also by verdict of S. Augustine, whom ye allege for you. Let us hear what he saith. In his second book contra epist. Parmeniani cap. 13. these be his words, where he speaketh of baptism and of the power to baptize, which is given in the sacrament of Order. utrunque enim Sacramentum est,& quadam consecratione utrunque homini datur, illud cum baptizatur, istud cum ordinatur. Ideo in Catholica non licet utrunque iterari. Either of them is a sacrament, and with a certain consecration either is given to man, the one when he is baptized, the other when he taketh orders. Therfore in the catholic church it is not lawful either of them to be taken twice.  
For the sacrament of wedlock, 
The sacrament of wedlock.  besides other good and sufficient proofs that it is a sacrament, we haue sundry testimonies out of S. Augustine and other doctors. In the church( saith S. Augustine,) not only the band of marriage, 
Lib. de fide& operibus c. 7.  but also the sacrament is so commended, that it is not lawful for the husband to deliver his wife to an other. He calleth wedlock a sacrament in many places of his works. de bono coniugali cap. 7. 18. and in the 24. chapter of that book he saith. Haec omnia bona sunt, propter quae nuptiae bonae sunt, proles, fides, sacramentum. All these things be good, for which marriage is good, issue, faith, the sacrament.  
Of extreme unction who doubteth whether it be a sacrament, 
The sacrament of extreme unction.  let him read the epistle of Innocentius the first ad Decentium Eugubinum episcopum, cap. 8. Where most plainly treating of it, he nameth it a Sacrament. 
jacob. 5 Lib. 3. de sacerdo.  Chrysostom interpreteth the place of S. james epistle for this sacrament. And so doth Bede, alleging the place of S. james, the sixth of mark, the authority of Innocentius, and the custom of the church. Seing then we haue found the seven sacramentes expressly mentioned in the fathers according to the teaching of the catholic church, whereas ye teach men to believe there be but two, and pretend that the fathers speak of no mo: I trust from henceforth they will take better aduise how they believe your bare word without all proof, and with certain danger of their souls forsake the doctrine of the church, 
1. Tim. 3.  which is the sure pillar and ground of truth, as saint Paul saith. In this great point Beza and ye of that side be manifestly found liars.  

apology  We say that baptism is a sacrament of the remission of sins, and of that washing which we haue in the blood of christ, and that no person which will profess Christes name ought to bee restraigned or kept back therefrom: no not the very babes of Christians, forsomuch as they be born in sin, and do pertain unto the people of God.  

Confutation. baptism very slenderly spoken of by the Defenders.  As ye aclowledge few sacramentes, so ye speak of them very slenderly. baptism( ye say) is a sacrament of the remission of sins, and of that washing which we haue in the blood of Christ. Now whereas ye mean, as within few lines ye declare, by the name of a sacrament no more but a token or sign, specially sith ye teach in your articles that baptism at the best, 
baptism taught by our new clergy to be but a sign and seal of our new birth. That in baptism sins be fully and truly forgiven.  is but a sign and seal of our new birth: ye seem not to attribute to baptism so much as the scripture doth. Neither is baptism only a sign or token that sins be remitted, but, we believe as the catholic church according to the scriptures teacheth, that in and by baptism sins be fully and truly remitted, and put away, and that not through the faith only of the giver or receiver, or of any other, though hereunto it be necessary in those that be come to age of discretion: but through the power and virtue of the sacrament and Gods promise. And therefore to whom it is given, of them it is rightly said, that they be baptized for remission of their sins. 
Cap, 36.  The scriptures be plain. First Ezechiel speaking of this holy sacrament, saith in the person of God: I will shed vpon you clean water, and ye shall be made clean from all your defilinges, and from your idols will I cleanse you. 
Tit. 3.  Next S. Paul saith. That God hath saved us by the washing of regeneration, and of the renewing of the holy ghost, whom he hath powred vpon us abundantly by Iesus Christ our saviour. That I may add to these manifest scriptures the authority of a learned father, not whereby to strengthen the truth of them, but to witness our right understanding of them: S. Augustine, lib. 3. contra duas epist. Pelagian. cap. 3. showing the slander of the Pelagians against the catholics, saith thus in their person. again they( that is after their meaning, 
Pelagians belied the catholics as the sacramentaries do also now.  the catholics) avouch that baptism maketh not in dede new men again, that is to wit, that it giveth not full remission of sins, &c. Thereto eftsoons answering S. Augustine saith. Mentiuntur, insidiantur, tergiuer santur. They lie, they study how to deceive, they seek shifts, we say not this. And after certain sentences returning to baptism, he concludeth thus. Wherefore baptism wassheth away all sins, utterly all, of deeds, words, thoughts, be they original, or actual, be they done ignorantly or witting. 
Concupiscence remaining after baptism is infirmity not sin.  But it taketh not away the infirmity, which the regenerate resisteth, &c. Which place doth not only set forth the virtue of baptism, but also destroyeth the doctrine of our new gospelers, that affirm concupiscence which remaineth after baptism, to be verily sin. Wherein they err manifestly against the scripture and sense of the fathers.  
We say that Eucharistia, the supper of the lord, is a sacrament, 
apology  that is to wit, an evident token of the body and blood of christ: wherein is set as it were before our eyes, the death of Christ and his resurrection, and what act so ever he did whilst he was in his mortal body, to thende we may give him thankes for his death, and for our deliverance. And that by the often receiving of this sacrament, wee may daily renew the remembrance of that matter, to thintent we being fed with the body and blood of Christ, may be brought into the hope of the resurrection and of everlasting life, and m●y most assuredly believe, that the body and blood of christ doth in like manner feed our souls, as bread and wine doth feed our bodies.   

THE TWELFTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  Among all these gay words we hear not so much as one syllable uttered, whereby we may understand, that ye believe the very body of Christ to be in dede present in the blessed Sacrament of the altar. 
The lords supper with the Defenders is an evident token of the body and blood of Christ.  Ye confess the Eucharistia, which commonly ye call, the supper of the lord, to be a sacrament and all that to be none other then an evident token of the body and blood of Christ. As for that ye add to make the matter seem somewhat, of the death of Christ and his resurrection, and his acts done in flesh: what reason or scripture haue ye that a piece of bread and a cup of wine( for in your belief more make ye not of this sacrament) can set them as it were before our eyes? Doth not rather a fair painted table set forth the acts of our saviour before our eyes more lively and more expressly? And be we not moved therewith to give God thankes for his great benefits, as well as if we haue bread and wine on a table? But I pray you sithence all is but bread and wine after your teaching, how shall we by eating and drinking thereof be fed with the body and blood of Christ? again can we by bread and wine be brought into hope of the resurrection and everlasting life, as ye say? And how shall we by eating of bread and drinking of wine be assured, that Christes body and blood doth in like maner feed our souls, as bread and wine feedeth our bodies? Though your imagination be never so strong, yet by eating of that which is bread only, and drinking of that which is wine only, we see not how your souls can be fed with the true body and blood of Christ, no more then ye be at your common meales.  
verily when all your tale is told, ye seem to say nothing else touching the eating of our lords body, but that the body of Christ remaineth in heaven, and that we must sand up our souls thither, to eat it there by a certain imagination which ye call faith. For this is your master Caluines doctrine. 
In the Defenders supper nothing but bread and wine, after their opinion. Faith doth all.  So that which ye deliver to the people in your supper of the Lord, the body of Christ being in dede absent after your opinion, is but bread and wine. By this doctrine all standeth upon your faith, your faith doth all alone. And he that believeth in Christ so as ye teach, eateth his body and drinketh his blood. for by your gospel to eat the body is no thing else, but to believe in Christ. If this be true, then is your supper superfluous. For we may and do believe without eating of bread and drinking of wine. Then what needed Christ to haue instituted this sacrament? What need haue we of bread and wine in churches, or of the whole ceremony of the supper? Why drive ye men by compulsion to your communion? For who seeth not that a mans soul is more moved by hearing of a sermon to ascend into heaven, and to believe in Christ, and to give him thankes for our redemption wrought in his flesh, then by eating of bread and drinking of wine?  
For declaration of the truth herein, 
The catholic doctrine touching the sacrament of thaulter. Vide de consecrat. dist. 2. The sacrament and the thing of the sacrament.  it is to be considered that when we speak of this blessed sacrament, we mean specially the thing received, to be the very real body of Christ, not only a sign or token of his body. Yet we think it necessary, the doctrine of the fathers be clearly taught, which is, that here is a sacrament, and the thing of the sacrament. The form of bread and wine which is sene, is the sacrament, that is to say a sign of the holy thing. For a sacrament besides the outward shape which it representeth to the senses, causeth an other thing to come into knowledge. The thing of this sacrament is of two sorts, the one in the same conte●●ed and signified, the other signified, but not contained. The first is the body of Christ born of the virgin Mary, and his blood  shed for our redemption, the second is the unity of the church in those that be predestinate, called, justified, and glorified. which church is Christes body mystical. 
A threefold distinction to be considered in the doctrine of this sacrament.  So that here are three distinct things vnderstanded. The one is a sacrament only, the other a sacrament and the thing, the third the thing and not a sacrament. The first is the visible shape or form of bread and wine, the second is the proper and very flesh and blood of Christ, the third, his mystical body.  

Two ways of eating.  And as there be two things of this sacrament, so be there also two means or ways of eating. The one is sacramental, after which both good and evil eat the true body of Christ, they to salvation, these to damnation. The other spiritual, after which the good only do eat. 
Indistinct speaking of distinct things in the doctrine of the sacrament, causeth confusion.  These Defenders as all other the sacramentaries, speaking of these distinct things indistinctly, cause confusion, and deceive the vnlerned readers. For they do attribute that which is spoken of the mystical body of Christ only,( the same being to be received by spiritual eating of the good only) to the true and natural body, which is received by sacramental eating, worthily of the good, vnworthely of the evil. For both good and evil eat Christes body in the sacrament, as is before declared. If they would confess plainly the very body of Christ born of the virgin Mary to be in dede in the blessed sacrament of the altar, there made present( the substance of bread and wine being changed into the substance of his body and blood) by the almighty power of the word of consecration, and the same to be received to salvation of the good, to damnation of those that haue not worthily examined and prepared themselves thereto, 
1. Cor. 11.  as S. Paul teacheth: touching the spiritual eating and drinking, which is besides and without the sacrament, we should sone therein agree with them, and aclowledge many things by them uttered, in right sense to be true, and in that respect faith to be the chief instrument to eat and drink withall, 
Faith the chief ininstrument to eat spiritually  and so the flesh of Christ to be the food of the soul, and to that kind of eating, the body not always to exhibit his duty and service. In such a sense and meaning the place commonly alleged out of S. Augustine; 
De consecr. dist. 2. vt quid.  as also many other the like, may well be vnderstanded without prejudice of the truth of Christes body in the sacrament. Vt quid paras dentem& ventrem? creed& manducasti. To what purpose makest ready teeth and bely? believe, and thou hast eaten. Now these Defenders harping only upon this one stryng of spiritual eating, and shunning the faith of the catholic church touching the true presence of the body, and violently wresting holy scripture and ancient fathers to a contrary sense, admitting figures for truth, tropes for the letter, shadows for things: play us many a false lesson, and teach horrible lies to the utter subversion of those that be led by them.  
To this banquet we think the people of God ought to be earnestly bidden, that they may all communicate among themselves, 
apology  and openly declare and testify both the godly society which is among them, and also the hope which they haue in Christ Iesu. For this cause if there had ben any which would be but a looker on, and abstain from the holy Communion, him did the old fathers and bishops of Rome in the primitive church, before private mass came up, excommunicate as a wicked person and as a Pagan. Neither was there any Christian at that time which did communicat alone whiles other looked on. For so did Calixtus in times past decree, that after the consecration was finished, all should communicate, except they had rather stand without the Church doors? because thus( saith he) did the Apostles a point, and the same the holy Church of Rome keepeth still.  
Let this banquet be dight as it ought to be, 
Confutation.  let the best dish be made ready in due sort, which is the very body of our saviour Christ, let the gestes be told what is set before them at that holy table, let them be taught to believe rightly, to prove and prepare themselves as behoveth: then we think it most convenient the people of God be bidden thereto, not thereby to communicate among themselves only, but also and rather to communicate with God, to be incorporate in Christ, and to be made partakers of al the benefits of God procured to man by the death of his son suffered in that body, which at this high feast they eat. 
devout lookers on do spiritually communicate.  This banquet being thus set forth, if some devout persons think themselves for good causes unworthy to assay thereof, and to receive that heavenly food sacramentally, finding themselves not so well prepared as S. Paul requireth in that behalf, yet for love of it desire to be present and behold that table, and spiritually to taste of that healthful dish by faith, charity, prayer, and fervent devotion, wherein they do not wholly abstain from the holy communion: such are not to be condemned as idle lookers on, for so ye make them, nor to be driven out of the church. Neither did ever the old fathers and bishops of Rome in the primitive church( say what ye will Defenders) excommunicate them, much less did they repute them for wicked persons and pagans. And not seldom the priest at the mass( which for this respect with unreasonable novelty ye term private) when none other were disposed to receive with him sacramentally but spiritually only, hath received alone the holy things which he hath offered.  
Neither the decree of Anacletus, which ye being deceived by Gratian untruly father upon Calixtus, 
Calixus alleged for Anacletus. The defenders require more of the catholics, then they {per}forme themselves. The place of Anacletus discussed.  requireth that all the people present should communicate with the priest at the mass. Which thing ye should not haue objected to the church, seing that it is not observed by your own new order in your congregations. red the epistle of Anacletus, from whence this decree is taken, and yourselves will confess the same. That holy father and martyr prescribeth the order which he would to be kept, when bishops or priestes say mass. Which was, that it be done in places consecrated to God, that a bishop at his mass haue witnesses with him mo then an other priest. In the solemn feasts he requireth seven, five, or three deacons, likewise subdeacons and other ministers, all clothed in hallowed vestiments to attend upon him, to stand on every side of him with a contrite heart and humble spirit looking downward, keeping him from malicious men, giving consent to his sacrifice. This much being declared in that epistle, it followeth immediately, 
This commandment of receiving the communion given by Anacletus pertaineth only to the ministers of the church in solemn feasts.  Peracta autem consecratione,& cae. And when the consecration is ended, let them all communicate, that will not be kept without the church doors. For so the Apostles haue ordained, and the holy church of Rome observeth. Who seeth not this request of receiving the communion to be referred to the priestes, deacons, subdeacons, and other ministers in solemn feasts serving the bishop at mass? For in that place Anacletus speaketh never a word expressly of the lay people. Therefore ye deceive the vnlerned reader with ally, bearing him in hand the rather to induce him to mislyking of the holy sacrifice of the mass, that by an old decree the people were required to communicate, where it pertaineth only to the ministers serving at the altar, and that not at all times, but in high and solemn feasts.  
For the better understanding of this decree, specially whereas Anacletus allegeth the Apostles ordinance for the same, 
See the 9. canon of thapostles.  the ninth canon of the Apostles is to be considered. In which they require every ecclesiastical person to be partaker of the sacrifice that is offered, or to be excluded from the communion, unless he show just cause for the contrary. The reason whereof in that canon expressed is this. Lest clerkes abstaining from the communion should be occasion of offence to the people, and thereby raise an evil suspicion against him that sacrificed, as though he had not made the oblation as it ought to be.  

apology  moreover when the people cometh to the holy communion, the Sacrament ought to be given them in both kindes, for so both christ hath commanded, and the Apostles in every place haue ordained, and all the ancient Fathers and catholic bishops haue followed the same. And who so doth contrary to this, he( as Gélasius saith) committeth sacrilege. 
De consec. dist. 2. Cap. comperimus.  And therefore wee say, that our Aduersaries at this day, who having violently thrust out and quiter forbidden the holy Communion, do without the word of God, without the authority of any ancient council, without any catholic Father, without any example of the primitive Church, yea and without reason also, defend and maintain their private Masses and the manglinge of the Sacramentes, and do this not onely against the plain express commandement and bidding of christ, but also against all antiquity do wickedly therein, and are very Church robbers.  

Confutation. Communion under both kindes not commanded expressly by Christ, nor ordained by the Apostles.  Soft and fair maisters. Ye show more heat then wit, more stomach then learning, more anger then reason. Ye say much and prove little. But say ye and say again what ye will, we tell you boldly that neither Christ ever commanded, nor the Apostles ordained, nor all the ancient fathers observed, that the sacrament be given to the people none otherwise but under both kindes only. If Christ had expressly commanded it, the church had not so long time received and kept the use of one kind. The Apostles and sundry holy fathers ministered both kindes we confess. That the one kind was not also by them ministered, and that it is utterly unlawful, we deny, and the same shall ye never be able to prove. Touching this whole point, and how little that ye allege out of Gelasius maketh for you, and concerning mass not to be omitted for lack of company to communicate sacramentally with the priest: I haue said enough in my answer to your fellow M. Iuell his challenge. Bring ye other stuff and better then this, or else all the world will see your halting, and the feebleness of your side. 
An unshamefast and slaunderouslye.  That we haue violently thrust out and quiter forbidden the holy communion, unless ye mean your own schismatical, mutable and polluted communion, if there were any spark of shane or hatred of lying in you, ye would never impute it unto vs. God doth know, and the world is not unwitting, how much, how often, and how earnestly the catholic church exhorteth her children to prepare themselves to receive their maker. And though the people of England of late yeres resorted not commonly thereto, yet the devotion of Christen folk in this country of base Almaigne, in france, in Italy, in spain, and in sundry other christen provinces is so fervent in frequenting the holy communion, as if ye saw it, ye would be a shamed of your slanderous report. Let wise men and good men judge, whether we be church robbers, or ye unshamefast liars.  
We affirm that bread and wine are 
apology.  holy and heavenly mysteries of the body and blood of Christ, and that by them Christ himself being the true bread of eternal life, is so presently given unto us, as that by faith we verily receive his body and his blood. Yet say we not this so, as though we thought that the nature of bread and wine is clearly 
b  changed and goeth to nothing, as many haue dreamed in these later times, which yet could never agree among them self of this their dream. For that was not Christes meaning that the wheaten bread should lay apart his own nature, and receive a certain new divinity, but that he might rather change us( and to use 
johan. ca. 6.  Theophylactus words) might transform us into his body. For what can be said more plainly thē that which 
De Sac. li. 4. ca. 4.  Ambrose saith, Bread and wine remain stil the same they were before, and yet are changed into an other thing: or that which 
e  Gelasius saith, the substance of the bread, or the nature of the wine, ceaseth not so to be: or that which 
In dialogis 1.& 2.  Theodorete saith, After the consecration, the mystical signs do not cast of their own proper nature: for they remain stil in their former substance, form and kind. Or that which 
In ser. ad infantes.  Augustine saith, That which ye see is the bread and cup, and so our eyes tell us, but that which your faith requireth to be taught is this, The bread is the body of Christ, and the cup is his blood. Or that which 
In Mat. hom. 15.  origen saith: Bread which is sanctified by the word of God, as touching the material substance therof, goeth into the belly and is cast out into the priuey. Or that which 
i  Christ himself said, not only after the blessing of the cup, but after he had ministered the Communion: I will drink nomore of this fruit of the vine. It is well known that the fruit of the vine is wine, and not blood.   

THE THIRTINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation. What is that we call holy and heavenly mysteries  Affirming and proving are two things. 
a  Bread and wine are but bread and wine. In this sacrament after consecration the substance of bread and wine being turned into the substance of the body and blood of Christ, the outward forms of bread and wine which remain, are the sacramentes of holy things, the body and blood of Christ. And the whole sacrament as it is taken both for the outward forms or visible signs, and also for the invisible grace, that is the thing of the sacrament contained under the shapes of bread and wine, which is the very body and blood of our Lord: all this together in consideration that the holy thing of the sacrament is covered with the vail of the outward forms, so as it appear not to the sight of mortal eyes, may right well be called holy and heavenly mysteries. If ye ment playnenes and truth, ye would speak in plain terms. This matter is so weighty, as it ought not to be handled colourably.  

The Defenders refuse to speak as the church speaketh.  Why be ye loth to speak as the church speaketh, that in this blessed sacrament we receive the body of Christ? Why had ye rather say after a strange maner, that by Bread and wine Christ himself is so presently given unto us, as that by faith we verily receive his body and his blood? To the receiving of Christes body in the sacrament faith is necessary we grant, and without faith is it not worthily received. But what mean ye? Is Christ himself by bread and wine so presently given unto us, as that by faith we verily receive his body and blood? If a man should press you with your own words, 
What presence of Christ in the sacrament do the defenders aclowledge.  and demand what maner of presence ye teach, affirming Christ himself presently to be given: I ween ye would be found halting. For how say ye? If Christ be presently given unto us by bread and wine in the sacrament, then is Christ present. If he be present, which ye must needs grant, tell us further, how is he present, according to the substance of his body, or by grace, or according to the majesty of his godhead? The first, what shifts so ever ye seek, ye will not grant. And therefore is your own Apostle Martin Luther at fowle defiance with your maisters Zuinglius, Oecolampadius, 
Lutherans enemies to our Defenders and to all of their sect.  Caluin and you, and so be his disciples Ioachimus Westphalus, Epinus, Pomeran, Heshusius, Brentius, Illyricus, and many others, as ye know. If ye will say, he is present by his grace, so is he present with all good men, and that not only when the sacrament is ministered, but also at al other times. If ye grant the presence of his majesty, who will thank you for it? For so he is present every where, 
Ierem. 23.  as he that filleth heaven and earth. Nay you must grant a more special presence in this sacrament, or else ye make your banquet of bread and wine little worth. And your own words import so much, where ye say, Christ himself presently to be given unto us by bread and wine. again how can ye make good, that by faith we receive his body and blood? By faith we receive grace and the merites of his death suffered in his body with shedding of his blood. But the body and blood itself, that is the very substance of his body and blood: tell us how by faith( properly and truly to speak) as who should say by faith made present, we receive it. Furthermore what haue ye to answer to this question? 
The body of Christ is not received by faith only  If we receive the body and blood of Christ verily by faith( for so ye say) we demand whether we receive the same by faith only without the body, or with the office of our body. If thoffice of our body be required to the receiving of Christes body in the sacrament, as Christ himself certainly meant( for else how obeied the disciples his commandment to whom he said at his supper, 
Matth. 26.  Take and eat, this is my body, likewise of the cup, take and drink, which can not be done but by the service of the body) hereof then it followeth that his body is verily present. For whatsoever is absent, that can not be received by office of the body. Well say we what we can, and though the presence of Christes body be never so well proved, ye will not grant Christes body in dede present, but yet that we receive it by faith: and so it remaineth, that by faith only. Now that it is not received by faith only, thus we prove it by your own doctrine. It is so received, as it is present, but it is present, by bread and wine( as ye say), ergo it is received by bread and wine. To conclude, if by bread and wine, thē not by faith only. will ye give me leave to say what I think of you? verily it seemeth by your vain jangling, 
1. Timot. 1.  that as S. Paul saith of such other like you, ye understand not what ye speak, nor whereof ye affirm.  

b  As ye procede forth, ye give warning to your readers not to take you so as though ye held with transubstantiation. And here ye speak thereof as best becometh your scoffing spirit, calling it a dream of men of later times, whereof they could never yet agree within themselves. By which words your eloquence hath set forth your spite and lying at once. For albeit the term of transubstantiation 
Transubstantiation.  be of no greater antiquity then the council lateran under Innocentius the third, where it was by the holy ghost and the fathers there devised as very fit for opening of the truth impugned by the Berengarians: yet is the doctrine thereof no less ancient then the gospel itself. For maugre the malice of the devill and of all the Sacramentaries, the old truth shal prevail, by which we are taught, that, which was bread, by the mystical blessing to be made Christes body, and that which was wine, to be made his blood, as I haue otherwheres sufficiently declared. And the church hath always hereupon perfitly accorded touching the substance, though certain scoolemen in their scholastical disputations, where often times victory is sought and faith not impugned, about discussion of some school point haue without prejudice of our belief disagreed. Neither say we as ye impute unto us, 
The bread and wine go not to nothing.  that the bread and wine goeth to nothing, but that they are by the almighty power of the word changed into a far more excellent substance, to wit, of the body and blood of our lord. Whereof ye can not gather, as ye do, our meaning to be such, as though the bread should receive a certain new divinity. We know these elements be not of such capacity, how so ever it like you to iest. But lord what meant ye to allege 
c  Theophylacte and 
d  S. Ambrose, whose doctrine is so contrary to yours, as light is to darkness? 
Theophilact contrary to the defenders. johan. 6.  Theophylacte expounding these words of Christ in S. John. As the living father hath sent me, even so live I by the father, and he that eateth me shal live by me, saith thus. dost thou not hear a dreadful saying? We eat not pure God, for he is vntoucheable and vnbodily. Neither can he be comprehended with eyes nor teeth. Neither eat we the flesh of a pure man, for that can profit nothing at al. But now that God hath united unto himself flesh after an unspeakable contenperament, the flesh is also become lifemaking. Not for that it passed away into the nature of God, 
{αβγδ}  beware of that, but after the likeness of fiery iron, which abideth iron, and sheweth the operation of fire: even so( quoth he) the flesh of our Lord abiding flesh, is life making, as being the flesh of God the word. Then as( saith he) I live by the father, who is life, so he that eateth me shall live by me, being tempered with me, as also being transelemented into me, who haue power to viuificate or give life. Which last words your own doctor Oecolampadius hath thus turned, dum quodammodo miscetur& transelementatur in me qui viuisicare potest, corrupting the sound doctrine of the writer with his forged quodammodo, which he found not in the greek there placed, and breaking the congruity of the latin speech by putting that in the third person, that ought to be in the first. What can be written more expressly against your sacramentary heresy, that denieth the real presence, and feigneth an imaginary eating by faith alone? 
Theophylact. maketh plainly for the truth of Christes flesh in the sacrament.  saith he not that we eat the flesh united to the word, which by virtue of the union is quickening or lifemaking? And why eat we not pure God or God alone without his flesh? Because( saith he) he is vntoucheable and incomprehensible to our senses. As who should say, it is the flesh of the son of God that to our salvation is eaten, which may be eaten. If faith wrought al this matter, thē after your meaning, might we eat God, which Theophylacte denieth. For by faith we believe in God, and apprehended his benefits. And because by eating of Christes flesh, we haue a marvelous inward coniunction with him not only in soul, but also according to the body: he saith, he that eateth Christes flesh, is tempered together with him, and transelemented into him, so as he is made one body with him, 
Cap. 3.  as Cyrillus expoundeth the place of S. Paul to the Ephesians, where he saith, that we be concorporales, that is to say, 
Ephes. 5.  of one body with Christ. And an other where, flesh of his flesh, and bone of his bones.  
again we marvell with what face ye dare allege Theophylacte for you, who in most evident words overthroweth your figurative, 
Not a figure, but the flesh itself of our lord.  tropical, and energicall doctrine touching this blessed sacrament. For he saith upon this sixth chapter of S. John. mark well that the bread which is eaten of us in the mysteries, is not only a certain figure of our lords flesh, but the flesh itself of our lord. For he said not, 
Transubstantiation  the bread that I shall give is the figure of flesh, but it is my flesh. For the bread is with secret words through the mystical blessing and coming upon of the holy ghost, changed into the flesh of our lord. Much more there he saith to the confirmation of the catholic faith in this behalf, that of al other ye should lest haue alleged him.  
Neither maketh 
S. Amb.  S. Ambrose, which also ye bring in, any better for you. 
d  Would God ye would admit him for vmpeere in this point. verily in the book and chapter that ye refer us unto, he disputeth as it were of purpose against you, as though he forsawe the time, when the church should be troubled with the heresy of sacramentaries. His words be otherwise then ye rehearse them. Because the place is notable to prove that ye deny, and every man either hath not or understandeth not S. Ambrose, though the same be somewhat long, I will not let here to recite it truly englished. 
De sacr. li. 4. Cap. 4.  Tu fort dicis &c. perhaps thou sayest. My bread is common, but this bread is bread before the words of the sacramentes, so sone as consecration cometh, 
De pane.  of bread is made the flesh of Christ. Let us then avouch this, how that which is bread, may be the body of Christ by consecration. Then with what words and speeches is consecration made? even with those of our Lord Iesus. For what so ever else is said( he meaneth at the mass) it is praise given to God, 
Consecration.  and praying for the people, for kings, for the rest. When the priest cometh to the consecration of the honourable sacrament, there he useth not his own words, but the words of Christ. therefore it is the word of Christ that maketh the sacrament. What word of Christ? Soothly that same whereby all things be made. Our Lord commanded, and heaven was made. Our Lord commanded, and earth was made. Our Lord commanded, and the seas were made. Our Lord commanded, every creature was engendered. Seest thou then how 
Operatorius.  workefull is the word of Christ? Well then if there be so great power in the word of our lord Iesus, that things began to be which were not, 
These be the words alleged by the Defender.  how much more is it workefull, vt sint quae erant,& in aliud commutentur, that things be which were, and be changed into an other thing? Here sir Defender constrewe me these words, and what sense can you draw forth of them, but this, if by the working power of our lords word, things haue a being, which before were nothing, and had no being at all, as heaven, earth, and seas: how much more power hath it to work, that things which were before, and had a being, now also be, or haue a being, but be changed into an other thing, in aliud, into a thing of an other substance, for by this phrase is signified a substantial changing, which aptly is called transubstantiation? And I pray you good sir, who saith, that the elements, I mean bread and wine, pass quiter away and go to nothing? Though you so belie us, 
The elements after consecration be, or haue a being.  we say not so, God forbid. We say that after consecration they be, but what? Not the self same they were, whereby the former substance is excluded, but the body and blood of our lord. again in that we say with. S. Ambrose, in aliud commutantur, they be changed into an other thing: followeth it not thereof by good logic, ergo they be? Will not this argument hold in school the verb passive being resolved, Sunt commutata, ergo sunt? For that which ceaseth to be or goeth to nothing, ye can not properly say of it that it is changed, 
S. Ambrose belied by the Defender.  but rather that it is ended, or perisheth. Now sir I report me to every man that hath any sense, whether I may not lawfully give you the Menti, as for manners sake I may use the Italian term, and challenge you in plain terms of a lie, for uttering this untruth, upon that holy Doctor S. Ambrose, specially speaking as you do in your english translation by yourself allowed thus: For what can be said more plainly then that which Ambrose saith, Bread and wine remain still the same they were before, and yet are changed in to an other thing? zeal moveth me to say beyond the modesty of my natural disposition, what is juggling, what is lying, what is falsehood, what is falsifying, what is wickedness of falsaries, if this be not?  
Neither is the saying wherewith this Defender belieth S. Ambrose all only false and contrary to the catholic faith, but also absurd, unreasonable, and foolish. For if bread and wine remain still after consecration the same they were before, as the Lady interpreteth, how then are they changed into an other thing? Of that which is changed into an other thing, what reasonable man will say it remaineth still the same it was before? Remaining the same presupposeth no change, at lest into an other thing. An accidentarie change may be, the thing remaining the same. But to say of any thing that it is changed into an other thing, and yet remaineth the same: it is as absurd, as to say, a man is an ape, a ston is iron. For things different in substance can not be said the one of the other.  
The places of 
e  Gelasius and 
f  Theodorite in appearance seem to make more for you, and more thē any other doctors. 
The place of Gelasius and Theodoritus answered.  They be commonly alleged of Luther, Oecolampadius, Bucer, Caluin, and all other that impugn the faith of the catholic church, concerning this blessed sacrament, not without insultation, as though they had by them won the field. So are they wont to do, that haue little good matter for defence of a bad cause. And though these two doctors were all together of this opinion, that after consecration the substance of bread and wine remaineth, what reason is it, they only in so great a matter should prejudicate all other holy and learned fathers, and which is more, the general councils and the whole church of Christ? But for answer to both, whereas they utter the truth, and right doctrine of the church in plain terms, it is reason we accept the same, and for any sentence sounding to the contrary, that we seek such construction, as falsehood may give place to truth, novelty to antiquity, strangeness to the received opinion. The catholic faith we find in them both within few lines after the words of this Defenders objection, first by Gelasius thus expressed. Sacramenta corporis& sanguinis domini in divinam transeunt spiritu sancto perficiente substantiam, permanent tamen in suae proprietate naturae, The sacramentes( saith he) of the body and blood of our Lord pass over into divine substance by the working of the holy ghost. Yet remain they still in the propriety of their own nature: by divine substance he meaneth the flesh of our Lord assumpted of the word. 
The truth confessed by Theodoritus. Dialog. 2.  Now saith Theodoritus, the mystical tokens, be vnderstanded to be the things which they be made, and are believed, and adored, as being the things which they are believed to be. But every man knoweth they are believed to be made the body and blood of Christ, and therefore be duly adored and worshipped: so after the mind of Theodorite they be the body and blood in dede, not bread and wine, as before consecration.  
Now that we haue the truth confessed by Gelasius and Theodoritus, your objection must seem to be of little force. And in dede the same rightly vnderstanded beareth no substantial witness against the catholic assertion. 
The words of Gelasius examined.  The substance or nature of bread and wine ceaseth not to be, saith Gelasius( whereas your interpreter addeth of her own head this word ( so) we tell you and her, 
False interpretation of Gelasius.  in Theodorite it is not so. Ergo it remaineth say ye. We grant the substance or nature of bread and wine remaineth after consecration, so as Gelasius understandeth by the name of substance, which is nothing elles but the very nature( as commonly we speak of nature) that is to say, the natural proprieties of bread and wine, 
Nature in Gelasius, and substance in Theodorite is taken for natural property. Dialog. 2.  for so he expoundeth himself afterward, saying yet they remain in the propriety of their own nature. They remain( likewise saith Theodorite) in their former substance, figure, and form, and be sene and felt as before. And therefore when Gelasius had name substance, considering how the same soundeth to learned ears the inward being of a thing which the accidetens be stayed on, he reuoketh as it were that word back again by way of correcting himself, and saith, vel natura, as who should say, 
In cap. Matth. 26. cap. 64.  or rather nature. We must not behold( saith Euthymius a greek Doctor) the nature of the things which be set before us, but the virtue ●r power of them. Where by nature he understandeth not thinward substance of bread and wine, but their property or quality. Which we confess to remain after consecration. Who is not satisfied herewith, may it please him to accept this that here followeth for a fuller answer as well concerning this objection made out of Gelasius and Theodoritus, as for the whole doctrine of transubstantiation.  
When it pleased our saviour Christ at his last supper to institute this blessed sacrament, 
The doctrine of transubstantiation.  at which he took bread and wine, and turned them into his body and blood, he would in such wise advance these creatures to a much excellenter condition, as they should loose no whit of their former virtues. For the son of man came not to destroy, but to save, and as S. Augustine saith, 
Lib. 83. quest.  is not cause that any thing tend unto not being. Now whereas every creature first hath his substance whereby it consisteth, next his natural effect serving in the order which God hath appointed it unto, thirdly his accidentary properties which by our five senses we may comprehend: it hath liked Christ to use for his purpose not the accidentary properties of bread and wine,( where upon pure men haue some power), but the inward substance itself, which as God only made, so he only can at his pleasure change. This substance then of bread and wine: Christ at his supper hath in such sort changed, and now daily also in this sacrament by the ministery of priestes through his word doth change: as we may not truly say the self same either to remain, or to become nought and perish. Not to remain, because they are changed, not to become nought and perish, because they are not annichilated or gone to nothing, and so haue still some maner of remaining, as a thing may remain which is turned into an other thing. After which maner they remain, first in the flesh and blood, as in the thi●ges into which they are converted, again in their virtue and strength which their accidentary properties haue in the stede of substances. For as in their substance there was nothing more excellent, then that they were of themselves not having their being in any other thing, so that virtue is kept still in their quantity and qualities. Which nolesse consist by themselves,( and that by miracle), then if they were substances.  

In logica. Cap. 23.  And thereto may Damascenes definition of substance pertain, who saith that substance is every that what so ever by itself is being, and hath not being in an other. And therefore sith the accidents haue their being by themselves in this sacrament, and be not stayed on any other thing: in this consideration substance of them may so be reported, as if themselves were substance. Which substantial consisting of the accidents lacking a proper name, because it is the mighty and extraordinary hand of God, is also extraordinarely called of Gelasius and Theodoritus by the name which the thing had before, to wit, the substance of bread and wine. And no marvell if they spake not in most exact wise of this secret point of doctrine at what time it was not as yet by the church so clearly and fully discussed. But sithence of the scoolemen it hath ben more distinctly name the existence of accidents without their subject, that is without an other thing whereupon they might stay.  
again whereas bread and wine by their nature do nourrish, this virtue also remaineth in the accidents given to thē by the almighty word of God, who changeth creatures to their bettering, not to their impairing, This was the meaning of Gelasius, and Theodoritus where they say, the bread and wine to remain in their former substance or nature. Otherwise should they be contrary to themselves, as they which also do aclowledge the nature of bread and wine to be changed into a more excellent substance by the workefull word of Christ. Seing then there is a change by all consent, and most certain it is that the change is not in the accidents, because we see them remain as they were before, and God deceiveth not our senses in their true and proper object, which is colour, taste, smell, &c: it must needs be, 
Change in substance.  that the change be in substance, which is to sense incomprehensible, that when Christ informeth our understanding saying of that which seemed bread, this is my body, he nolesse telleth us that the being or essence of these things, is only his body and blood, then he sheweth to our senses that the outward forms are the forms of bread and wine in all virtue and strength of substance and nature, which they had before.  
Thus we haue answered your places objected against the catholic doctrine of transubstantion out of Gelasius and Theodoritus. 
Theodorite falsified by the Defender.  And here we put you in mind of your falsifying of Theodorites words, in that ye make him to say in your english the mystical signs to remain in their former substance form and kind, where he saith not so, but in their former substance figure and shape. ye know pardy there is great difference between the kind of a thing and his shape. The oftener ye use that falsehood, as ye use it very often: the more shall ye be espied to be false teachers, and grow out of credite where truth is loved.  
The words which ye recite out of 
g  S. Augustines sermon ad infantes, 
answer to the place alleged out of S. Augustine.  we find in Bede vpon the tenth chapter of the first epistle to the Corinthians. The whole place is this. This thing which ye see in the altar of God, ye haue sene it also in the night past. But what it was, what it meaneth, the sacrament of how great a thing it contained, as yet ye haue not heard. That then which ye saw, is bread and chalice, which even your eyes tell you. But that which your faith requireth to be instructed of, bread is the body of christ, the chalice his blood. Now what can ye pike out of all this, but that the late baptized were to be instructed concerning this sacrament, as they which never heard, what it was that they saw on the altar, nor understood what it meant, but thought only thereof so as their senses informed them? And if the substance of bread remained as before consecration, what need had they to hear what it were? For of themselves they might know the things proponed to be bread and wine. But S. Augustine( ye say) calleth that they saw, bread and wine. Yea sir so it was, so far as their eyes  told them. But what their faith ought to tell them, he instructeth them saying. Bread, to wit which they saw and their eyes  told them of, is according to the instruction of faith, the holy body of Christ. To this construction must we stand by S. Augustine himself so set forth. Neither hereof can you take any advantage against vs. And is it any marvell if he spake to such younglinges in the faith of that mystery, so as he might seem to haue respect of their small understanding? Wherein he leadeth them from their eyes to faith, from bread appearing, to a body believed, and under the form of bread contained.  
In alleging 
Origens words examined. Origen falsified by the Defender. In Mat. Homil. 15.  Origen sir defender ye play your accustomend false play, corrupting his sentence and falsifying his words. For they be not as you recite them, but thus. Illecibus qui sanctificatur per verbum dei pérque obsecrationem iuxtà id quod habet materiale, in ventrem abit,& in secessum eijcitur. That meate which is consecrated by the word of God and by prayer, according to that material which it hath, it goeth into the belly, and is voided forth into the priuey. Here neither nameth he bread, as you do( to cause the people to think it is but very bread) but meate. And that you haue in your latin, quod quidem ad materiam attinet, which is by your interpreter as touching the material substance thereof, it is not Origens, but your own forged stuff to deceive the ignorant with all, to th'end they might be moved by your false handling of that doctor to believe the matter and substance of very bread to remain. He speaketh not of the matter of bread, but of that which is material in this sacrament, meaning the accidents or qualities remaining after consecration, which be material, but not the matter itself of bread( as matter is taken for the one part of a perfect substance) and the same accidents be voided forth, as Origen had good cause by occasion of Christes words to declare, you had none to record to the same. But it liked your filthy spirit with vile words to bring that holy mystery and blessed sacrament into contempt. Wherein ye do the devill author of all heresies the greatest service that may be devised. Now having plainly shewed these Defenders belying of the fathers, let us see whether they haue so much grace or modesty, as to spare our saviour Christ himself.  
Lastly they allege Christes words to prove that the substance of wine remaineth in the sacrament of the altar after consecration, 
The place alleged out of the gospel considered.  which being proved should infer the like reason also of the bread. Christ( say they) himself said, not only after the blessing of the cup, but after he had ministered the communion, I will drink nomore of this fruit of the wine. Hereunto they add of their own heads, It is well known that the fruit of the vine is wine, and not blood, By this they would signify, that in the chalice we haue not Christes blood, as himself said, but more wine, as against Christ they labour to persuade. This gear is so by them handled, as though Ladies only should come to turn it into english and make much of it, and noman of wit or understanding might haue the discussion of it. They presuppose for an undoubted ground( which is not undoubted in dede) that Christ after his holy supper said, 
Matth. 26.  he would not drink from thence forth of that generation of the vine, for so be his words to be interpnted. again they presuppose a matter certainly false, that christ added never a word more at that time, and in that same sentence, which might declare an other sense of his former saying, were it granted he had spoken those words after communion. upon those two grounds, the one not known to be true, the other well known to be false, they build this conclusion, that the substance of wine remaineth in the Sacrament, and is not converted into the blood of Christ.  
For better declaration of this point, it is to be vnderstanded, that these words of Christ( wherein he denieth to drink from thenceforth of that generation of the vine) are not after one sort alleged by the evangelists. For matthew( whom mark followeth) doth so place them as spoken after consecration. 
Lu. ca. 22.  Luke on the other side putteth them before the words of consecration. These Defenders without any further debating, flatly take them to be spoken for their most advantage, making no mention of the diverse maner of rehearsal, which the evangelists used in that behalf. But we say, that those words ( I will not drink from henceforth of this generation of the vine) either were spoken only before the communion, or only after, or in both times. If they were spoken before communion,( which opinion is the more probable it is very clearly proved by them, that wine remaineth not, as it shal hereafter be deduced. If they were spoken either only after communion, or in both times, then shall it be made evident, that they rather prove with us, then make any thing against the conversion of wine into Christes blood. Now then we think rather those words to haue ben spoken before the communion, then after, and that for diuers causes. First Luke wrote after the other two evangelists, and therefore may be thought in writing the very same story, and in using the same words, rather to haue put them in a more proper place and order, then in a more vnpropre, specially whereas in the beginning of his gospel he professeth unto Theophilus, that he writeth 
{αβγδ}. q. d. cohaerenter, {αβγδ}.  in order. 
Cap. 1.  And by all reason the former sayings be sooner drawn to be vnderstanded according to the latter sayings, then contrariwise.  
Seing then the evangelists rehearse not all things always in the very proper time and place they were said and done in,( as it may appear for example in the description of John baptistes death), 
mat. 14. Marc. 6. luke. 9.  and seing as every of them wrote later, his order is judged more natural and proper( for which cause we deduce the whole story of Christes preaching out of S. John): for these causes it may well be said, that we should rather follow the order of Luke, 
Cap. 22.  who witnesseth that Christ spake these words before his maundie, then matthew and mark, who tell it as spoken after. Secondly the order of Luke is confirmed by the circumstance of the things that he describeth more then the other evangelists. For the other speak but of one chalice, but Luke mentioneth two, the one belonging to the ceremony of the old lawe in eating the paschal lamb( as jerome, Bede and Theophilact haue learnedly declared), the other belonging to Christes holy supper. Now because in the chalice of the old lawe there was certainly not blood but wine,( whereas Christ teacheth that in his chalice his own blood is contained) let the discrete reader judge, whether we must not rather think that these words of Christ, I will not from henceforth drink of this generation of the vine, do not rather pertain to the cup of the old lawe,( as Luke placeth thē) then to the chalice of Christ after the consecration, whereof matthew and mark rehearse thē. Thirdly Luke reporteth the like words to be spoken by Christ, when after the eating of the paschal Lanbe he said, I say unto you from henceforth I will not eat of that, until it be sulfilled in the kingdom of God. And as he reciteth that same to be said of the Lanbe, so forthwith he speaheth of a cup belonging to the custom of drinking at the supper of that lamb, likewise adding, that he would not from thenceforth drink of that generation of the vine. And who seeth not how plain it is, that Luke hath the very order of the story, as the thing itself was done?  
Fourthly and lastly when Matthew and mark rehearse that Christ said, he would not from thence forth drink of that generation of the vine, they both in much like sort of speaking add thereunto these words,( which in the apology were guilefully left out) until that day when I will drink it new with you in the kingdom of God my father. 
Mat. 26. Mark. 14. New drinking.  If Christ speak of a new drinking which is to come, by likelihood the drinking past is old. And therefore the words thereunto appertening do mean and describe a cup of the old lawe, and not the cup of Christ, the which himself calleth the new testament and blood of the new testament.  
Now if that be so, when he saith after the drinking of a plain cup of wine, I will not from hence forth drink of this generation of the vine, until the kingdom of God come, or until I drink it new in the kingdom of my father, and yet fourth with drinketh of a new cup, which was his own blood: doth it not necessarily follow( whereunto they can never answer) that the new cup is not that generation of the vine, that the other was which he pointed unto, but as he name it, is new, that is to say, not old wine, as it was under moses, but his blessed blood, as he made it by his almighty working at his last supper, in which he turned the wine into his blood? What exclamation would be sufficient to express, that in this weighty point of salvation our english clergy are content to blind the people, the right worshipful, yea the honourable of our country in so vile a sort, that after many fathers words misreported, and wrongfully wrested, they doubt not to attempt the same in Christes own sayings, and in those sayings of his, which evidently prove the contrary?  
But now let us grant of our free liberality contrary to so many good and strong reasons, that Christ said after consecration. I will not from henceforth drink of this generation of the vine, until the kingdom of God come. 
The kingdom of God taken two ways.  Then it must be further vnderstanded, that the kingdom of God is taken in scripture sometime for the present state of the church after Christes resurrection in this world, according to that is said oftentimes in scripture, the kingdom of God draweth nigh, 
Matth. 3.  sometimes also for the joy of heaven, as when Christ saieth, 
luke. 22.  I d●spose for you a kingdom, as my father hath disposed for me, that ye may eat and drink at my table, &c. Now if we take these words of Christ spoken before consecration, it is not vnconuenient, to understand them of either of both kingdoms, that is to say, of the kingdom of resurrection, or of glory, as Chrysostome and other do witness, because both were to come at that time. But if we take them spoken after consecration, as we rather upon confidence of the truth, then for necessity at this time do grant: then these words ( until the kingdom of God come) are to be meant only of the kingdom of glory. For these holy mysteries belong to the kingdom of Christes resurrection and ascension. Neither were they practised by the Apostles in the church of Christ, until the holy ghost came down vpon them. Christ then after the institution of the mysteries of the new testament, speaking of a kingdom to come, doth signify the kingdom of glory, and not only the kingdom of his resurrection in this world, and then he saith, I will not drink of this generation of the vine( he meaneth together with you) until I drink it new with you in the kingdom of my father. And so the newness of it there is fruition of it not under the forms of bread and wine, as we haue it now, but face to face without all figure and form. Then it is to be noted that Christ said not, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, But, I will not from henceforth drink of this generation of the vine: of this I say, whereof now I haue drunken, which is under the form of wine my blood, which am the true vine. For whereas this apology saith ( it is well known that the fruit of the vine is wine, and not blood) it seemeth to declare, that the authors thereof are ignorant in the holy scriptures, where they might haue found the fruit of some vine to be called blood. For jacob said to his son Iudas bearing the figure of Christ, He shall wash his rob in wine, 
Gen. 49.  and his cl●ke in the blood of a grape. Lo a grape hath his blood, a grape is the fruit of the vine, and therefore it is not well known, that the fruit of the vine is not blood. The holy ghost did in these words of jacob prophecy, that Christ the true vine should give the grape of his body to be pressed upon the cross, from whence the wine was shed, which is in our chalice, as Chrysostom also noteth. 
In. 1. Co. 10  But because it is there under an other form, Christ saith, he will not from thenceforth drink with his disciples of that generation of the vine, until he drink it new, that is to say, renewed to immortality by resurrection, and shewed in his own form and glory. Hereof gregory Nazianzen may be viewed, oratione .4. in sanctum pascha. But specially S. Augustine declaring how this word( new) doth not so being taken, signify a new substance, but a renovation to immortality. quaest. evangel. lib. 1. cap. 43. And now is it no wonder if we expound the word( vine) mystically. For if ye place the saying of it after mysteries, and mark that it is referred to them by a demonstration, to wit,( this generation of the vine) and referred again to a time in heaven where no material wine shall be: there is no evasion, but by this generation of the vine must be meant that blood, which was made before in the holy mysteries, and that blood, which shalbe droncken new in the kingdom of heaven. For the material wine is not drunken in heaven, neither was it drunken in the mysteries, and therefore not spoken of in that saying, which so is put between the mysteries and the glory of heaven, that it referreth itself to each of them. O what strength truth hath, how plainly she dareth to show her face, nor nipping the scriptures, nor misenglishing them, nor dissembing any iote, that may seem to make against her!  
And in speaking thus, we mean not to abase the lords supper, 
apology  or to teach that yt is but a could ceremony onely, and nothing to be wrought therein:( as many falsely slander us we teach) For wee affirm that Christ doth truly and presently give his own self in his Sacramentes: In baptism, that wee may put him on: and in his supper, that we may eat him by faith and spirit, and may haue everlasting life by his cross and blood. And we say not this is done slighty and couldely, but effectually and truly. For although we do not touch the body of Christ with teeth and mouth, yet wee hold him fast and eat him by faith, by understanding, and by the spirit. And this is no vain faith which doth comprehend Christ: and that is not received with cold devotion, which is received with understanding, with faith, and with spirit. For Christ himself altogether is so offered and given us in these mysteries, that we may certainly know we be flesh of his flesh, and bone of his bones: and that Christ continueth in us, and wee in him.   

THE FOVRTINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation. By whom is our lords supper more abased, by the Defenders, or by the catholics.  It is easy to be perceived who abaseth more our lords supper, whether ye, that teach it to be very bakers bread and wine with the only figure of Christes body and blood, or we who believe it to be his true body and blood with the only forms of bread and wine. Whether ye, that will haue it a figure of Christes whole body absent, or we, who will haue Christes body present in dede, with a figure of his death which death is absent only. Whether ye, that call it an idol when it is worshipped, or we that do according to our duty adore it, 
In. 1. Cor. c 10. Hom. 24.  because that royal body( as Chrysostom saith) which is set before us to be sene now in earth, is worthy of the most high honour. But whether of those two is the colder ceremony and more simplo supper, to haue bread and wine with a sign only of flesh and blood, or to haue real flesh and blood with such forms of bread and wine as by the power of God do nolesse bodily nourish us, then the substance itself would haue done: we doubt not of wise mens iudgement. Ye haue your carnal banquets fat and full enough of the best flesh, and it is with you superstitious to eat dry and Lenten meats. But ye will haue your spiritual banquets so lean and carreine, as a man may well discern whether ye haue more phantasy to your flesh, or to your spirit.  
Ye writ that many falsely slander you, 
The sacramentaries teach nothing to be wrought in their lords supper.  saying that ye teach nothing to be wrought in the lords supper, whereas ye affirm, that Christ doth truly and presently give his own self in his supper, that we may eat him by faith and spirit. And other work in the lords supper ye show none. And this which ye show, a man may doubt whether it be a thing wrought in the lords supper or no. Well may ye say that it is a thing wrought in them which come to the supper, but that it is wrought in the supper itself, 
1. Cor. 11.  ye show it not, the supper being that which is called caena, to wit, the meate received, not caenatio, which is the act of supping. For sith that supper is nothing else but meate and drink set vpon the table to be received by such as come unto it: 
What is supper properly.  that which is wrought in the lords supper, must be wrought in the meate and drink, which our Lord hath at his table. And as the matter whereof our lords supper is made, is bread and wine: so the supper made thereof is our lords body and blood, in to which the bread and wine by thalmighty power of the word is changed. So that if ye will show Christ himself to be made or wrought in our lords supper, ye must show bread and wine to be changed into Christ himself, and so to be eaten of his faithful at his table. But whereas there are three things, Christ that maketh the supper, the communicants that receive the supper, and the supper itself: ye say that Christ for his parte giveth his own self verily present, likewise that the communicants for their part eat him by faith and spirit. And so ye show that the maker of the supper worketh, and that the communicants work. But all this while ye show us not what is wrought in the matter of the supper, that is to say in the bread and wine, nor what is made of them. O great slander that ye were charged withall, which not so much as by your own word ye are discharged of.  

The proper work of our lords supper.  How much sounder is the catholic doctrine, which teacheth the proper work of our lords supper to be the turning of the substance of bread and wine into his body and blood? Which work because ye will not confess, ye haue devised a work of your own working, which is not proper to our lords supper. For if I can receive Christ in my house at home by faith and spirit, how is that work proper to his supper, which may be wrought without his supper? Or can I not believe in Christ or lift up my spirit unto him, except I come to supper? Or if I do call for Christ, doth he not give himself by grace unto me?  

How make the Defenders Christ verily present in his supper.  But( say ye) at the lords supper Christ giveth himself verily present. To what purpose I pray you? That we may eat him( say ye) by faith and spirit. Well reasoned forsooth. Haue ye forgotten the giving to eat, and eating that which is given, to be relatives, one of them having relation to the other? If Christ do exhibit his own self verily present, as your latin text hath, or giveth his own self verily and presently, as your gentlewoman telleth your tale for you: doth not he so exhibit or give himself, as he will be received? Or doth he show in one hand a piece of bread, and with the other strike us on the head with a ston? If he give us himself verily present, as ye say, we take him verily present. And thē( unless ye mean by himself his grace which is of Christ and not Christ himself) we eat him verily present, not only by faith and spirit, but by taking him into our mouth and body. If it please him at any time to be eaten by faith and spirit alone,( after which sort he is daily eaten by those that humbly call vpon him) then he giveth not himself verily present, but by faith and spirit, otherwise name grace or some spiritual effect of his working. But in our lords supper the scripture requireth a special and peculiar presence of Christ, to wit, of his flesh, so as it may be eaten. If then he give himself verily present, as ye say, he is present in his own person, god and man, with body, with blood, with soul, with godhead. If ye mean the very presence of his godhead, that presence belongeth no more to Christ, then to the father and to the holy ghost. And so haue ye not declared any peculiar presence belonging to his supper. For by presence of his godhead he is always verily present, as well before supper, as at or after supper, because he filleth heaven and earth. It remaineth that either ye understand not yourselves, or wilfully deceive that infinite number of souls, for whose sake Christ hath  shed his blood.  
Your error in making the presence of Christ in baptism like to his presence in the supper, is to gross. 
The presence of Christ in baptism and in the supper is distinct, which, the Defenders make to be like. johan. 3. johan. 6.  For although Christ work both our regeneration and our nourrishment by his divine sacramentes, yet in baptism our regeneration is by name attributed in the gospel to the holy ghost also, to show that Christes presence there is spiritual. But his supper consisteth of his body and blood, which are so united to Christ, as they are peculiar to the second person in godhead. again for as much as they are received into us as food to nourrish our bodies to resurrection, as the gospel saith, and nomans body is otherwise nourrished then by eating in dede that meate whereof he is nourrished, and the flesh of Christ, as himself saith, is meate indeed, 
johan. 6.  and his blood drink in dede: we are forced to believe an other maner of presence in the sacrament of the altar, then in baptism. And therefore ye haue handled this matter to slightly and coldly.  
Whereas ye say, 
That we touch Christes body and eat it with our mouth, and how.  wee do not touch the body of Christ with teeth and mouth, are ye so accustomend to swallow down whole morselles, as ye never touch them with your teeth? Or haue ye learned to eat that which ye touch not with your mouth? If Christ said, take eat, this is my body, and the Apostles took and eat the same, neither could they take and eat without touching: it seemeth ye handle eating to slightly and coldly, when ye will haue it without touching. Ch ysostom a more substantial handler of things then any of you is, 
In. 1. Cor. Hom. 24.  saith of Christes body, quod omnium maximum est atque praecipium, in terra non conspicaris tantum, said tangis, neque solum tangis, said comedis,& eo accepto domum redis. Of all things that be in earth, what is the greatest and the chiefest, that dost thou not only see, but touchest, neither only dost thou touch it, but also eat it, and having received it, thou goest home again. How we touch it we know, for it is not now a mortal and corruptible body, wherein we may fasten our teeth, but glorious and immortal, and therefore we touch it by the reason of the accidents of bread and wine, with whose forms( as S. Augustine speaketh) it is covered or veiled, 
In lib. Sentent. Prosperi. The Defenders imaginary holding of Christ holdeth not Christ as he is in the sacrament. mat. 26.  and so cometh it to our teeth, and to our mouth, and nourisheth both our bodies and souls to life everlasting. Nay but we( say ye) hold him fast, and eat him by faith, by understanding, and by the spirit. I pray you be not to hasty to hold him before ye haue him. How came ye by him? His grace he giveth diverse ways, but himself bodily and presently as man, he never promised to give otherwise, then when he said, take, eat, this is my body. And then Iudas( who had but a very mean faith) because he received the sacrament, received him also. And our blessed Lady although she had a most perfit faith, received him not after that sort, because then she received not the sacrament. How can ye assure yourselves, that your faith taketh the body of Christ, which was never promised to your faith? If your faith take him not as he is in the sacrament, how can your faith hold him fast there?  
As here before ye haue said much and proved little against the real presence, wresting and stretching certain fathers sentences and the scripture itself to that purpose, not wholly and faithfully, but by piecemeale and patchedly alleged, so as ye might best make them serve to the maintenance of your false doctrine: right so in the conclusion of that part of your apology, with a like grace ye heap a number of mangled authorities together, whereby to persuade, that forasmuch as the fathers haue advertised us to lift up our mindes to heauenward, we should not think we eat the flesh of Christ as being here present with us under the form of bread. Therefore whereas ye lay to the catholics charge, as though by their sacrilege the people were bereft of a great benefit in that they be taught to be content with the one kind, under the same receiving nolesse then if they had both: how much more worthily are ye to be charged with the crime of sacrilege, that rob them of the greatest treasure that is in the church, so much as in you lieth, the body and blood of our Lord, and in stede thereof pretend to deliver unto them a piece of bakers bread and a cup of wine? But let us see what good reason or authority ye bring out of the fathers against the true presence of Christ in the blessed sacrament.  
And therefore in celebrating these mysteries( say ye) the people are to good purpose exhorted before they come to receive the holy communion to lift up their hartes and to direct their mindes to heaven ward, because he is there, 
apology.  by whom we must be fulfed and live.  
I pray you which these mysteries mean ye? 
Confutation. The priestes saying of sursum corda, maketh no argument against the presence of Christes body in the sacrament.  Those that ye haue in your new communion, or those that we haue at the altar of God in the catholic church of Christ? If ye mean your own new devised toy, thereof ye can not bring any sufficient reason against the church pardy, which condemneth the same. If ye mean the holy mysteries of the catholic church, ye misreport the matter. For by that exhortation ye speak of, the people are not prepared to receive the communion only nor chiefly, but to dispose themselves accordingly and as it becometh thē to pray, for to that end be those words sursum corda, up with your hartes, pronounced by the priest in the preface before prayer. red S. Cyprian in Sermorne 6. de oratione dominica. And ye shall find him to refer the whole to prayer. But what if we admit your words refusing your heretical meaning? We grant the people ar to good purpose so exhorted as ye say, and that he is in heaven, whose flesh we feed on in this sacrament, thereby to attain to life everlasting, what conclude ye of this? ergo he is not here? For at that mark ye shoot, every man may see. Here we tell you that your rhetoric is better stuff then your logic, 
A foolish argument.  for your argument is foolish. With the one ye may lead the simplo perhaps, with the other ye move the learned to laugh at you. For Christ is in heaven and also here, 
In epist. ad Heb. homil. 17. Christ is both in heaven and also here in the sacrament.  as Chrysostom saith, Et hic plenus existens,& illic plenus, vnum corpus. He is here fully, and there fully, one body. These two propositions, Christ is in heaven, and Christ is here, may well stand together, without iutting the one the other out of place. He is there at the right hand of the Father visibly, he is here under the forms of bread and wine invisibly, there in glory, here in mystery, yet as truly and as fully here as there, concerning his substance, as Chrysostom saith. Ye proceed forth and say.  

apology.  cyril saith, when we come to receive these mysteries, all gross imaginations must quiter be banished.  

Confutation.  Why do ye not by your quotation direct us to the place where this saying of cyril may be found? know ye not that we haue good cause to suspect your dealing? Do we not almost everywhere find you in manifest lies? 
cyril gu●lefully alleged. Ioa●. ●.  If ye mean plain truth, why deal ye not plainly? Christes saying must needs be true, who evil doth, hateth light. Because ye knew the place maketh directly against you, and subverteth your whole sacramentary doctrine, ye thought it good policy to take a word or two for your purpose, and leave the rest, trusting it should not be espied. Wherein ye do like the scorpion, that casteth forth his venom with the spirt of his tail, and forthwith creapeth away into a hole. Would god as ye abuse the name of cyril, 
The place of cyril turned vpon the Defenders.  so ye would stand to the truth by him even in that place which ye allege, substantially declared. Who listeth to see the place, let him read Cyrilles answer to Theodorites reprehension of the eleventh anathematisme against Nestorius. There he sheweth that Nestorius destroyed the mean of the union of both natures in Christ, to thintent the body of Christ might be found but a common body as men haue, and not a body proper of the Word, 
Lib. ad Eu optinm.  having power to viuificate or quicken all things. For Nestorius divided Christ, and taught the Word to be the son of God, 
The heresy of Nestori{us}.  not of Mary, and Christ man the son of Mary only, as man, and dissolved the whole mystery of the incarnation so, as christ should be an other certain son beside the Word. And because the nature of godhead can not be eaten, thereof he talked vainly and profanely, that in the sacrament we eat flesh, and not godhead. For confutation of this detestable heresy, cyril bringeth him to the consideration of the blessed sacrament, and opposeth him whether he thought, that in the sacrament Christ being( by his doctrine) man besides God the Word, we eat a man, as one would say, after such sort, as the barbarous people of the new found land America called Canibales, eat one an other. But because that were absurd and beastly, cyril saith that we eat not a common body, though the nature of godhead properly be not eaten, but that body which is proprium verbi, the proper body of the Word, which quickeneth all things, by receiving whereof we receive whole Christ God and man. And here cyril layeth to Nestorius charge, as though he drove men to gross cogitations touching this sacrament. The words be these. Num hoins comestionem, 
The gross imaginations that Cyril would to be eschewed in receiving the blessed sacrament.  &c. What dost thou pronounce this our sacrament to be eating of a man( the greek is {αβγδ}) and drivest vnreuerently the mind of them as haue believed unto gross imaginations, and attemptest with humane imaginations to treat of those things, which are attained by an only, pure, and exquisite faith? These be the gross imaginations which cyril would to be banished at the receiving of this sacrament, and that we eat the body of Christ, not as being a common body, as the body of every mortal man. And though the nature of godhead be not eaten, that yet we eat that body which is the proper body of the Word, that quickeneth all things. Now as we haue not that gross imagination of eating a common body,( which of the greeks by a term plainer to the learned is called {αβγδ}) when we receive this Sacrament: so is it evident by cyril, that in the same we eat verily and in dede the body of Christ the word incarnat. For otherwise his sayings had not made ought against the heresy of Nestorius. And thus receiving Christes body in the sacrament, we receive it truly, and with faith, and without gross imaginations. All this weighed, how prove ye now Christ to be so lodged in heaven, that not withstanding his own word, we lack him here in these holy mysteries? But let us consider your other authorities.  

apology  The council of Nice, as is alleged by some in greek, plainly forbiddeth us to be basely affectioned or bent toward the bread and wine which are set before vs.  

Confutation.  As the former part of the sentence which ye bring out of the Nicene council, soundeth nothing against the catholics,( for they also teach the same): so the later part is directly contrary to your doctrine, which ye thought good to leave out, lest thereby ye should haue marred your whole matter. Such nipping and rounding of sentences hath ever ben taken for a mark to know heretics by. 
A mark to know heretics by.  Among wise men such practise worthily bringeth you into suspicion of untruth. The words of the council truly reported be these. 
The words of the Nicene council, which make plainly for the catholic doctrine touching the sacrament of thaulter.  Let us not at the divine table basely behold the bread and cup set before us: but lifting up our mind, let us by faith understand on that holy table to be laid the lamb of God, that taketh away the sins of the world, of priestes sacrificed vnbloudely, and receiving his precious body and blood verily, let us believe these to be the pledges of our resurrection. For in consideration hereof we take not much, but a little, that we may know, we receive not to filling( of the body) but to sanctimony. Take the end with the beginning, and what maketh this decree of that holy council for defence of your sacramentary doctrine? And here who be more basely affectioned and bent toward the things set on that table, ye, that make them but bread and wine, or we, that after consecration believe under the forms of bread and wine verily to be made present the body and blood of Christ? Whether is a base exercise, to feed on common bread and wine, and to dwell in the iudgement of the senses, or to eat the very flesh of Christ, the bread of life, that came down from heaven, to immortality of the body and soul, to forsake the senses and follow the understanding of faith? Well we agree with you not to be over basely intent to the bread and cup. But why do not ye perform that as followeth there after your own allegation out of that council? Why do ye not with those 318. holy fathers, and with the whole church of Christ understand by faith on that holy table to be laid the lamb of God, that taketh away the sins of the world? Why do ye not recant your wicked doctrine against the blessed sacrifice of the mass? read the whole sentence joining thende to the beginning. say not all those holy and learned fathers, the lamb of God on this sacred table( they mean the altar) to be sacrificed of the priestes vnbloudely? Teach we then any other doctrine touching the sacrifice of the mass, then was generally taught in the whole church three hundred yeares after Christ? For there about was that first general council holden.  
again why bring ye the christen people from the body of Christ whereby they are redeemed, to a bare piece of bread, teaching it to be but the figure of his body? Saieth not this council that we receive the precious body and blood of our Lord {αβγδ}, 
All tropes and figures of the sacramentaries be excluded by verdict of the Nicene council. Bread and wine are not received to holynes, but to repair nature.  that is verily and in dede, whereby in dede all your tropes and figures be quiter excluded? again if these were but bread and wine, as ye teach, would the council say, that we take them not to satiety, but to sanctimony and holiness? What holiness can we haue of bread and wine? What holiness obtain we not by eating of the body of Christ, being the proper body of the Word, or God the words own body, that hath power to viuificate and quicken all things? Thus we come within you Defenders, as it were, and clasping with you, wring your weapon out of your hands, and with the tother end of it stricke you down. As it is not hard to us by learning to overthrow you, so we beseech God to strike down the pride and stubbornes of your hartes, 
Act. 9.  as he did Paul, wherewith ye resist the manifest truth.  

apology.  And as Chrysostom very aptly writeth, We say that the body of Christ is the dead carcase, and we ourselves must be the eagles, meaning thereby, that we must fly hye, if we will come to the body of Christ. For this table as Chrysostom saith, is a table of eagles, and not of Ieyes. Cyprian also. This bread saith he, is the food of the soul and not the meate of the belly.  
In dede Chrysostom saith as ye report. 
Confutation.  But sirs what mean ye? To eat the body of Christ, which is the dead carcase in respect of his death( for unless he had fallen we had not risen again) must we so be eagles, as we use no office of mans body to this kind of eating? Must we fly so hye, as we look not to find this body in earth? Can we not eat this body, except we fly up to heaven? Can we not come by it, but there? can we not eat him but there? Yeas forsooth. We need not go out of the earth for the matter. For Chrysostom himself in the same homily from whence ye fetch this, saieth, that whiles we be in this life, this mystery is cause, 
In 1. Cor. cap. 10. homil. 24. What eagles must we be, and how hye must we fly to come to theating of Christes body. What is meant by by the hye eagles slight.  that the earth to us is become heaven. He that desireth to know what eagles we must be, and how hye we must fly to come to the eating of this body worthily, let Chrysostom even there expound Chrysostom. He nameth eagles( saieth he) to show, that he must get him up on high that cometh to this body, and that he must haue nothing to do with the earth, neither be drawn downward to base things and creape, but always fly upward, and behold the sun of righteousness, &c. Will ye yet hear him more plainly declare, what he meaneth by this high eagles flight? Wype away( saieth he) al filth from thy soul, prepare thy mind to receive these mysteries. If the kings child arrayd in purple and diadem were delivered unto thee to bear, wouldest thou not cast down on the ground all that thou holdest, and receive him? But now when thou receivest not the kings child, but the only begotten son of God, tell me I pray thee, art not afraid? And dost not cast away all love of worldly things, and garnish thyself with him only, but dost thou yet look down on the earth, art thou yet in love of thy money? art thou yet given to the earth? If it be so, what forgiveness, what excuse shalt thou find? This ●pirituall flying up requireth Chrysostom, and yet in that homily he declareth the body of Christ to be present here in earth, 
Chrysome acknowledgeth Christes very and real body present in the sacrament.  meaning in this holy sacrament, yea that very body which was nailed, beaten, which was not overcome by death, which the sun seing crucified, turned away his beams, for which the vail of the temple was rent asunder, stones and all the earth quaked, the body that was made all bloody, and being thrust in with a spear powred forth fountains of blood and water to all the world healthful. Thus ye see how far Chrysostom is from your strange doctrine concerning the very and real presence of Christes body in the sacrament of the altar. Of which altar, and of the sacrifice of that body made and offered by the priestes, and of the adoration due thereto, in that homily he speaketh most plainly. That to prove your purpose, ye must seek for an other homily, which ye are never like to find, for Chrysostome serveth not your turn. As neither Cyprian whom ye allege; and against whom, God knoweth. verily we confess with holy Cyprian and the fathers of the Nicene council, 
Cyprian alleged by the Defenders to no purpose.  that the body of Christ, which we receive in the blessed sacrament, is the food of the soul, and not common meate to will the paunch. And therefore of the outward forms we take but little according to the Nicene decree, acknowledging that spiritual food to serve to sanctimony, not to satiety. Lastly ye bring for you S. Augustine in these words.  

apology In johan. tract. 50.  And Augustine, How shall I hold him, saith he, which is absent? How shal I reach my hand up to heaven to lay hold vpon him that sitteth there? He answereth. reach thither thy faith, and then thow hast laid hold on him.  

Confutation. johan. 12.  Vpon these words of S. John, the bishops and pharisees gave commandment, that if any knew, where Iesus were, he should show it, that they might apprehended him, S. Augustine expounding the same, in a contrary sense saith. Let us now show the Iewes where Christ is, 
S. Augustine speaketh not of receriuing Christ in the sacrament, but by faith only.  would God they would hear and lay●●●●d on him. Where he speaketh not of receiving Christ, so as we receive him in the sacrament, but of receiving him by faith only. And there he wisheth and exhorteth the Iewes to come to the faith, and teacheth them how they may profitably lay hold on Christ, whom their forefathers laid hold on with violent hands to their damnation. Let them come to the church( saith he) let them hear where Christ is, and lay hold on him. After certain words, he maketh this objection to himself. Well, the Iewe answereth me, whom shall I hold, him that is absent? How shall I reach up my hand to heaven, that I may lay hold on him which fitteth there? Reach thither thy faith( saith Augustine) and then thou hast laid hold on him. Then followeth in the same line that which plainly declareth all this to be meant of laying hold on Christ by faith, not by receiving the communion. Parentes tui tenuerunt carne, tu tene cord. Thy forefathers thou Iewe took hold on Christ in flesh, take thou hold on him in thy hart. There he sheweth how Christ may be holden, though concerning the visible and sensible presence of his body, he be in heaven at the right hand of the father. All this and what so ever is said there vpon the text before recited, implieth not so much as any colour of argument against the truth of Christes very body in this most blessed sacrament. And thus all your allegations and reasons concerning this matter be sufficiently answered.  
We can not also away in our churches with the shows and sales, 
apology  and buying and selling of Masses, nor the carrieng about and worshipping of bread, nor such other ydolatrous and blasphemous fondness which none of them can prove that christ or his Apostles did ever ordain, or left unto us and we justly blame the Bishops of Rome, who without the word of God, without the authority of the holy fathers, without any example of antiquity, after a new guise do not onely set before the people the sacramental bread to be worshipped as God, but do also carry the same about vpon an ambling horse, 
In libro de Ceremonijs Romanae Ecclesiae.  whither soever themselves journey, as in old time the Persians fire and the reliquies of the goddesse Isis were solemnly carried about in procession, and haue brought the sacramentes of Christ to be used now as a stage play, and a solemn sight, to the end that mens eyes should be fed with nothing else but with mad gasinges and foolish gauds, in the self same matter wherein the death of Christ ought diligently to be beaten into our heartes, and wherein also the mysteries of our redemption ought with all holiness and reverence to be executed.   

THE FIFTINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  Your railing terms we are little moved withall, which as they be very vile in your latin, so be they much viler in your gentle womans translation, whom poor soul ye haue deceived, 
Gen. 3.  as the Serpent deceived eve. We look for no better fruit of the boughs graffed by such graffers. The things which it liketh your Sathanicall spirit whith blasphemous words to dishonour, and bring in contempt, are such, as neither your praises can make more prayseworthy, nor your upbraidings any whit of less estimation. If any by the stinking breath of your vile words be puffed away in to your damned side, who so ever they be, they show themselves to haue ben light chaff, 
Mat. 3. luke. 3.  not sound wheat. And though they remain yet to outward show in our lords floor, when the wynnower shall come with his fan to sunder the chaff from the wheat, then shall they be swipte away into the deep pit of outward darkness, where shall be weeping and knasshing of teeth for ever. 
mat. 13.  Yet for good folkes sake, that I may leave your vile eloquence to yourselves, and answer the matter by you railed at and belied, and otherwise not disproved: 
A priest may justly enjoy his necessary living for serving at haulter, and for saying mass. mat. 10.  I pray you good sirs, the mass being the highest and most honourable service that is done to God in his church( which otherwheres being already proved I treat not of in this place), why should not a priest, by whom only it is and may be done, being called to that vocation and state of life, haue reward and living for it? Is every wor●● ◇〉 ●n by scripture worthy to haue his hier, and the priest only for doing this most divine work to be denied his duty? If we may not by Gods commandment mousell the ox that treadeth out corn, 
Deut. 25.  may we lawfully imbarre a priest serving at the altar to haue necessary living for his service? If priestes by celebrating the holy sacrifice after Christes commandment, 
1. Cor. 9.  and in the same praying for the people do sow unto them spiritual things,( as they do no less then preachers though in an other degree and maner) is it a great thing if they reap their temporal things for sustenance of their life? Do ye not understand( saith S. Paul to the Corinthians) how they which minister about the sacrifice, live of the sacrifice, and they which wait at the altar, are partakers of the altar? If it were so in the old lawe, 
Deut. 18.  why ought it not to be so likewise in the new lawe, specially our priestes of the new testament at their mass offering the true sacrifice, by which we haue ben redeemed? rail against the mass and priestes serving at the altar of God until your tongues burn in your head in hell fire: we tell you, priestes of the catholic church sell not the fruit and merit of Christes blood offered in the mass, but only for their ministery and labour require necessary sustenance of life. Which sustenance what maner and how great is necessary, that is to be judged by civil wisdom, rather then by determination of divinity. And this I mean of those that serve only in that ministery. As for other which under bishops haue charge of souls, as their cure is greater, so their state ought the more to be honoured.  
But for your defence ye confess, 
we know no worshippers of bread.  that ye can not away with the carrying about and worshipping of bread. No more cannot we. To whose charge lay ye this? Be there any such idolaters now that worship bread? They would be known. God forbid we should suffer idolaters to live amongst vs. Soothly in the catholic church we know none. If ye can not away with the honour which al devout Christen people do to the blessed sacrament,( we mean to Christes body and Christ himself present in substance under the form of bread) then can not we take you for Christians, mock, scoff, iest, and rail at us with the Iewes, we dare not but honour our lord Christ, where so ever our faith findeth him verily and in substance present. And as the solemn feast of Corpus Christi, 
The feast of corpus Christs instituted against the Defenders ancestors.  was ordained by Vrbanus the fourth to be kept of good catholic people, the rather because your forefathers the Berengarians and Petrobrusians had with their devilish doctrine dishonoured that holy mystery: so we the successors of those faithful people follow them, and likewise exhibit all honour to Christ in the sacrament, and that with so much more devotion, how much we fear Gods vengeance hanging over us for your wicked contempt shewed in that behalf.  
If through fervent zeal( as sometimes it happeneth) abuses in certain places haue crept in, no good catholic man defendeth them. Mary we know all is not to be abrogated that mislyketh your corrupt taste. And much is right holy devotion pleasant in the sight of God, and therefore allowed in the church, which your hote spirit calleth idolatrous and blasphemous fondness. And though the ceremony and maner whereby such devotion is shewed, can not be proved by ordinance of Christ or of the Apostles expressed in scripture, yet christen people doubt not but God accepteth their good hartes. 
God is not displeased with works of devotion that be not commanded by express scripture.  And hereto they be induced by scripture itself. For they know, Christ was not displeased with the sweet and costly ointmentes, with which blessed Mary Maudelen anointed his feet. He was not offended with the Apostles for spreading their clothes vpon the ass on which he road into jerusalem, nor with the people that strewed green boughs in the way that he passed by. And yet neither she nor they had any express commandment so to do either by the Patriarkes, or Moyses, or Prophetes, or Christ himself. 
The bishop of Rome honoureth Christ in the sacrament, not the sacramental bread, as the Defender slaundereth. In doing whereof he doth but his duty. The ambling horse ought to offend no more then the ass that bare the same body.   
The bishop of Rome ye blame unjustly, I might say also proudly. For procuring honour and worship to Christ in the blessed sacrament, he hath the word of God, the authority of all holy fathers, and the examples of antiquity, as I haue at large proved in my answer to your companion master Iuell his eight negative article. But the ambling horse offendeth you. Why be ye not also offended with the ass and her fool, that bare the same body at jerusalem, which the horse beareth at Rome? Then visible and weitghty, now in uisible and of no weight? That was done in pomp to the honour of Christ, and so is this. Ye say this is done after a new guise. So then was that. The Pope( say ye) hath no scripture no fathers, no example of antiquity for thus doing. He doubteth not but that Christ, who would his visible body to be born on an ass to furtherance of his glory, will also take in good part his invisible body,( where to our simplo wits in some cases a semelyer way appeareth not) reverently and with all show of honour of our part to his glory to be carried in form of bread vpon a palfrey thereto prepared. Neither is it true which ye say, that the bishops of Rome do carry about with them the sacrament whither so ever they journey. Ye might haue learned in that book, out of which ye allege that matter to scoff at, that such a solemnity is used specially, 
Lib. Ce●emoniaram ecclesiae. Ro. Sectione.  when the Pope rideth in pontificalibus. Then( as the book telleth) a white palfrey trapped, gentill, and fair, with a clear sounding bell hanging at his neck is led ●ich carrieth the monstrance or pyx with the most holy body of ●●●●st, 
12. cap. 1.  over the which noble Citizens shall bear a canopy. 
Baldachinum.  Thus the book of ceremonies.  
This solemn maner of carrying the blessed sacrament is set forth by Paulus divinus in the description of the pomp of Charles the fifth Empirours coronation at Bononia. 
Lib. 27. tomo. 2.  And I pray you what evil is this, if it be good to carry about that most holy body, by which as Christ once redeemed us, so by the same devoutly honoured of faithful people, and carried abroad and brought to certain places hath in old times( as yet also doth continually) to the great comfort and help of sundry persons being in distress, wrought miraculously healthful remedies? Examples hereof I would gladly recite, were not they such, as should require a large and long description. If the Israelites found help at Gods hand by bringing the ark into the field with them, as they marched forward against the Philistians: 
1. Reg. 4.  if the Philistians cried out for fear when they perceived the ark to be in the Israelites army, 
1. Reg. 5.  and said, Venit Deus in castra. Vae nobis. God is come into their tentes. 
Ibidem.  Alas we are undone: If they made outcries at an other time, when the ark was among them, saying, O let not the ark of the God of Israell remain with us, because his heavy hand is vpon us, and vpon our God Dagon, If by presence of the ark( I say) which was but a shadow of this blessed sacrament, in which was kept nothing else but the golden pot of manna, Arons rod, and the tables of the testament, God wrought such help and defence to his people of Israell, terror ad destruction to their enemies and their Idol Dagon: what benefit may christen people look for at Gods favour, having the very and true body of his son in substance present in this sacrament honourably and devoutly for the more stirring up of their faith carried abroad among thē, and represented unto them in solemn processions and stations?  
And concerning the order of the ceremony, 
In the order of this ceremony, nothing appeareth to a Christen man unseemly or unreasonable.  whereas the people be desirous to behold the body of their redeemer with their faith by their carnal eye directed to the form of bread, no man is able to hold up on hye the sacrament, so as convenient it were to be done both to satisfy their devotion and to maintain their faith: for the Pope himself commonly is an aged man, and therefore over weak for that service, specially arrayd in pontificalibus, as in such solemnities he is. again the instrument that serveth for that purpose is so great and weighty( for so it appertaineth to the honour of Christ), the way so long, the air for the more part there so hote: as no other man is well able for lack of strength to bear it so as meet it is to be born. In this case why may not a horse be put to that service, to supply that which by natural weakness faileth in man? Wherein he serveth not as one that beareth a male, but as the ass that bare Christ, as the kine that drew the ark.  
Neither ought the custom of bearing the most holy body of Christ where the Pope goeth, to seem new and strange. 
The custom of carrying the sacrament, where the Pope goeth, is neither new nor strange.  For we read in the life of the blessed Martyr steven the first, who was Pope of Rome above thirtin hundred yeres past, that Tharsitius the deacon( who at length also suffered death for Christ) bare our lords body at what time he attended vpon the blessed man Pope steven, as he went to his martyrdom. Who desireth to see this described at large, the same may he find in Simeon Metaphrastes a greek writer, well approved and highly esteemed in the greek church, in vita Stephani primi.  
Neither is it marvell, if the Popes do this, forasmuch as in the old times other Christen people were wont customably so to do. For witness whereof we haue S. Ambrose, who describeth how certain faithful persons caned this blessed sacrament with them, 
In oratione funebri in Satyrum fratrem.  when they went to the sea, of whom his brother Satyrus obtained the same in a shipwreck, and by help thereof hanging it in a stolen about his neck, seeking for none other succour, cast himself in to the sea, and miraculously escaped safe to land. Of this place of S. Ambrose it is evident that good folk carried sometimes about with them the blessed sacrament. But the Pope hath ben accustomend so to do the rather, that being Christes vicar in earth, he is the father, pastor, master and governor of all Christen people. Neither is the same by him done without a special mystery, 
Innocent. 3. De mysterijs Missae. lib. 6.  though unknown to the more part. Although saith a learned Pope, a reason can not be given of all things, what so ever haue ben brought in ure by our forefathers: yet I think quoth he, that therein lie hidden profound mysteries.  
I report me now to the secret consciences of good Christen people, whether the bishops of Rome use not the blessed sacrament reverently and honourably or no, but rather as the Persians fire; and the relics of the goddesse Isis, as a stage play, 
This Defender followeth julian, Lucian, Porphyrius, Celsus, and such other wicked infidels. Contrà Celsum li. 6. De Mithra vide Suidā in dictione {αβγδ}.  mad gasinges, and foolish gauds, as it liketh this wicked Chams brood to rail. Wherein they follow the steps, which julian the Apostata, Lucian, Porphyrius, Celsus, and such other profane hellhoundes haue trodden before them. For after the like manner they railed at the holy mysteries of Christen religion, namely Celsus, who as Origen writeth of him, objected to the Christians the sacrifices of Mithra,( which was an idol that the Persians worshipped and called by the name of the sun) from whence he said they had taken all their sacramentes, rites and ceremonies. And right so( as we find in S. Augustine writing against the Manichees) the paynims found fault with the Christen people for honour done to the body and blood of Christ vnd●●●ormes of bread and wine, saying that they honoured Bacchus and Ceres.  
Besides, where they say and sometime do persuade fools, 
apology.  that they are able by their Masses to distribute and apply unto mens commodity all the merites of Christes death, yea although many times the parties think nothing of the matter, and understand full little what is done, this is a mockery, a Hethenishe fancy, and a very toy. For it is our faith that applieth the death and cross of christ to our benefit, and not the act of the Massing priest. Faith had in the Sacramentes( saith Augustine) doth justify, and not the sacramentes. And Origen saith: christ is the priest, the propitiation and sacrifice, 
Origen ad Rom. cap. 3.  which propitiation cometh to every one by mean of faith. So that by this reckoning we say, that the sacramentes of Christ without faith do not once profit those that be alive, a great deal less do they profit those that be dead.  
Least any piece of your apology should be without a witness for proof that ye are his children, 
Confutation.  who is the father of lies: ye make us to affirm, that by our Masses we distribute and apply to men indifferently, how so ever they be disposed, for so ye mean, as it appeareth partly by that ye say here, and special by your doctrine otherwherers uttered, all the merites of Christes death. But tell us, who ever taught this doctrine in the catholic church? We believe and know the merites of Christes death to be of infinite valour. Which infinite valour as all the creatures of the world be not able by any their act or power to distribute all: so neither is any thing created being of power finite, able to receive all the same being infinite. That faith applieth, 
Faith apply●eth not the merites of Christes death, but maketh us mee● to re●●iue them.  we can not conceive, how it may be properly spoken. But that it maketh a man appliable and fit to obtain Christes merites to himself, we confess. For whereas it is impossible to please God without faith, thereupon it followeth, that faith is that gift, which maketh every person worthy and meet, to receive Gods friendship and grace. Which gift a mans hart once being ●ndewed with all, according to the measure thereof, he receiveth from God through the holy Sacramentes and by other ways, a greater or lesser quantity of his benefits. Yea God is so good and prove to bestow his mercy, that not only when a man is through faith prepared for it, he giveth it abundantly unto him: but also though he of his own parte haue no faith presently, yet for others sake which are Gods dearly beloved friends, he fareth the better, and hath that gift obtained to him. As when S. steven prayed at his death for those that persecuted him, for whom prayed he then, but for those, who had no faith at all in Christ? And when this grace was given unto them, as that from their Iewishnes they came to the faith of Christ, who shall exclude that blessed Martyr from this worship and honour, that through his prayer as by one special mean, that grace was applied unto them?  

Theffect of S. stevens prayer.  What effect his prayer took, if any man thereof doubt, he may think it to haue wrought much for the benefit of others of less malice, seing that it did so much in Paul. Who as the scripture saith, 
Act. 9.  yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against Christes disciples, was so changed and converted, that of a persecutor he became an Apostle. 
Serm. 1. de Sanctis. Contra duas epist. Pelagian. ad Bonifacium. li. 1. ca. 19.  For as S. Augustine writeth, Si Sanctus Stephanus sic non orasset, ecclesia Paulum non haberet. If S. steven had not prayed so, the church should not haue had paul. Now if those that be no priestes without public authority of consecrating the body and blood of Christ, yet by way of prayer do obtain, that men be converted to the faith, which is thapplying of one fruit of Christes merites, much more the public minister and bishop. Which assumpted from among men is ordained for men in matters belonging to God, 
Heb. 5.  that he may offer up gifts and sacrifices for sins: much more he at the time of consecration and oblation may the rather by virtue of his office, and by offering that most blessed sacrifice, obtain mercy for the whole church, not only for them which are presently members of the church, but also for all men that hereafter shall be.  
And now if ye list to learn what kind of applying we use in our Masses, we do offer up unto God first, his son, 
What kind of Applying is in the sacrifice of the mass.  representing his passion, and celebrating the memory of the same according to Christes institution. Then through him we offer up also ourselves and all men that be of his church, beseeching that he vouchesaue to haue mercy vpon them for his sons sake, whose sacrifice once done on the cross bloudely, is here the very self same in the celebration of our mysteries vnbloudely continued, not to be a new redemption, but that thus being done as Christ did it at his last supper, and ordained always to be done until his coming( in which we offer the self same body with sacramental oblation, that was offered on the cross with shedding of blood) the healthful virtue of it may by our devout intention be to other applied to remission of sins daily committed. Who doubtless take benefit thereby in such proportion, as by Gods just and merciful disposition is proportionably to be given forth for such actions according to the devotion of them that offer, and of whom that most singular sacrifice the price of the world is offered.  
Now if we make our devout prayers, and apply our intention more for one then for an other, as by the commandment of God we ought to honour our father and mother, our bishops, our kings and rulers, and to do good for those specially, that be of the household of faith, 
Galat. 6.  for our benefactors, who desire us to pray for them, and the rather to obtain that of us, do give succour to our necessity, if I say we pray for any of these more specally then for others: our prayer and that most holy sacrifice helpeth them so much the more, to thende Christes merites may by convenient means be applied to them, by how much greater the devotion of our intention is toward God for the same persons. But what measure of good we procure them, to God only is that known. 
Lib. 1. de vocat. gentium. Ca. 4.  If( as the learned bishop Prosper saith) the grace of our saviour passeouer some persons( as we see it to happen) and if the prayer of the church( wherein the sacrifice is contained after S. Augustines mind) be not admitted for them: it is to be referred to the secret judgements of Gods iustice, and it is to be acknowledged, that the depth of this secret may not be opened in this life.  
And yet bolder may we be to pray for the dead( such I mean as died in Christ to whom only among the dead our prayer doth good) thē for those that be alive, of whom more doubt may be, whether they shall die in Christ or no. And among all that be living we are bolder to pray for those that presently are in the catholic church( as whom only we use to name at the altar) then for heretics, schismatics, Iewes, paynims, or Turkes for whom not withstanding we pray also at a certain time, 
Epist. 59.  knowing as S. Augustine saith, membra Christi ex omni esse hominum genere colligenda, that the members of Christ are to be gathered together out of every kind of men.  

apology  And as for their brags they are wont to make of their Purgatory, though we know it is not a thing so very late risen amongst them, yet is it no better then a blockyshe and an old wives devise.   

THE SIXTINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation. Of purgatory.  Purgatory seemeth not to us a thing that we should much brag of, no more thē ye will brag of hell. We tremble at the remenbrance of it rather thē brag of it. What reason ye haue moving you to impute this unto us, verily we see not. Perhaps ye mean our bold and constant avouching of it, and call the same our brags. Good and sufficient proofs of a doctrine to your judgements doubtful are not to be called brags. Well, how so ever it be, will ye nill ye( we see) ye be driven to confess the same to be no new thing, 
Purgatory acknowledged by the Defenders to be of antiquity.  for so is your latin, though it hath liked your gentill Lady of her good will to wrest it unto us that profess the catholic faith, naming it a thing not so very late risen amongst vs. In dede if she and you call them papists, among whom the doctrine of praying for the dead whereof necessarily followeth the doctrine of purgatory, is delivered, taught and holden: then are the Apostles, who delivered it by tradition,( as Chrysostom and Damascene report) their scholars, the best learned and in maner all the fathers of all ages, and briefly all Christes church from Christes ascension to this time papists, among whom to bear the name of papists, we be not ashamed. 
Reasons for purgatory.  Touching purgatory itself whether any be or no, which ye deny and we affirm, this is to be considered. 
1  First forasmuch as nothing that is defiled cometh into the kingdom of heaven, and some depart out of this life though in the faith of Christ, 
Apoc. 21.  and children of the everlasting kingdom, yet not thoroughly and perfitly clean: it remaineth that such after this life before they come to the place of everlasting joy, haue their purgation. That no defiled or vnclean thing entereth into heaven, it is witnessed by S. john in his revelation. 
Cap. 21.  And that some having by faith the merites of Christes death, haue notwithstanding their uncleanness, yea when they depart this life, thus it may be proved. Though our outward man be corrupted( saith S. Paul) yet the inward man is renewed day by day. 
2. Cor. 4.  Now if he be renewed, then hath he some oldness, and so consequently some sin, as S. Augustine argueth. And yet speaketh S. Paul thereof 〈◇〉 self being justified. And if day by day, which signifieth a continuance of time so long as life endureth, then also in some, when death cometh and taketh us out from this world. So there be some that dying in the faith of Christ, and thereby assured of salvation, carry with them some part of uncleanness, that keepeth them from entering into the kingdom of heaven, until they be wholly purged. 
2.  Furthermore in the same epistle the Apostle saith. 
Cap. 7.  Seing then we haue these promises dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, making perfit our satisfaction in the fear of God. Who seeth not hereof to follow, that to many which be justified, somewhat of satisfaction and holynes lacketh? which, if they be taken from hence, before they attain to the measure of holynes requisite, be they not then after this life in state to be purged and cleansed? unless perhaps some will say, that death generally purgeth al such uncleanness. 
3.  Which being said without authority of scripture or holy fathers, may as easily be denied, as it is affirmed. again what if the pain be not wholly paid and suffered, whereunto the sin being forgiven it is evident that a man remaineth bound, 
2. Reg. 12.  as it appeareth in david? Shall we say of such, that they go strait to heaven that due pain being unpaid? But ere we procede further, let us see how substantially ye disprove the doctrine of purgatory. It followeth in your apology.  

apology. Aut in psal. 85. in Euchir. c. 67. de civitate. lib. 21. c. 26. Hypognost. 5.  Augustine in dead sometime saith there is such a certain place: sometime he denieth not but there may be such a one: sometime he doubteth, sometime again he vttrely denieth it to be, and thinketh that men are therein deceived by a certain natural good will they bear their friends departed. But yet of this one error hath there grown up such a harvest of those Massemongers, the Masses being sold abroad commonly in every corner, the temples of God became shops to get money, and sel●e souls were persuaded that nothing was more necessary to be bought. In dede there was nothing more gainful for these men to sell.  
Well railed. 
Confutation.  If your reasons or authorities were so piththy as your mocks and scoffs be spiteful: ye were to be heard. But thanks be to God, that such shrewd beasts haue short horns. Now to S. Augustine. 
answer to the objections made out of S. Augustine.  Although any thing which is agreed vpon by all the fathers, believed and received generally in Christes church, ought not( as vincentius lirinensis teacheth) to sustain prejudice by the contrary opinion of any one Doctor, we being well able to prove purgatory by the manifold testimonies of the fathers and consent of the church in all ages, might in this respect justly reject the authority of S. Augustine: yet the rather to show how far the world is deceived by you( not only in this but in all other points wherein ye dissent from the catholic church) we are well content for this matter of purgatory ye make so light of, to be tried by the iudgement and doctrine of S. Augustine. And as Festus said to S. Paul, 
Act. 25.  hast thou appealed to Caesar? to Caesar shalt thou go: So say we to you though not having that authority over you, which Festus had over S. Paul: To Augustine ye refer this matter, and by Augustine shall ye be judged.  
I would allege unto you sundry places of the scriptures which may sufficiently prove purgatory to a Christen man that is not contentious, but that will we do hereafter as occasion serveth. Now to saint Augustine. We say plainly that S. Augustine affirmeth purgatory, 
S. Augustine affirmeth Purgatory in plain and express words. 1. Cor. 3.  and that it can not be shewed where he doubteth of it, much less where he utterly denieth any such to be. In sundry places of his works he expoundeth the words of S. Paul to the Corinthians of purgatory, where the Apostle saith, that the works which be builded vpon the foundation( which is Christ) shal be tried by fire. But vpon the 37. psalm he speaketh thereof in such 〈◇〉, as no man can judge him to doubt of it. Where he ma●● ◇〉 ●is prayer to God. 
S. Augustine, prayer to God.  Non sim inter illos, &c. O lord let not me and among them, to whom thou shalt say, Go ye into everlasting fire which is prepared for the devill and his angels. Neither amend me in thine anger, but purge me in this life, and make me such a one, as shall not haue need of the 
Emendatorio igne.  amending fire, which is for them that shalbe saved, yet so as by fire. For what cause, but for that vpon the foundation they build timber, haye, and stubble? But if they would build gold, silver, and precious stones, then should they be safe from both fires, not only from that everlasting, which shall torment the wicked for ever: but also from that other, which shall amend them that shall be saved by fire. For it is said. himself shalbe saved, yet so, as by fire. And because it is said, he shalbe saved, that fire is little passed on, Yea plainly, although saved by fire, yet that fire shalbe more grievous, then all that a man is able to suffer in this world. Here haue ye a manifest testimony of the amending fire after this life, which we call purgatory as the church doth. 
Cap. 13.  In the 2●. book de civitate Dei, after that he hath declared his iudgement touching pains of diverse sorts which men suffer for sins committed, he saith thus. But pains temporal some suffer in this life only, some after their death, some both now and also then, yet before that most severe and last iudgement. What be those temporal pains which be suffered after this life before the day of the last iudgement, but those which we call the pains of purgatory? In his second book entitled de genesi contra Manichaeos, he giveth us a plain testimony of purgatory, 
Cap. 20.  where he saith thus. He that tilleth not his ground but suffereth it to be overgrown with thorns, hath the malediction of his ground in his works in this life, and after this life he shall haue either the fire of purgation, 
fire of purgation. ( that is to say purgatory) or pain everlasting. In his book of fifty homilies homilia 16. After a large and a wholesome discourse made concerning the horrible state of hell and of those 〈◇〉 be damned to everlasting fire, at length speaking of pur●… rye, he calleth it a flood of fire or a fiery flood, through which they shall pass that haue done things worthy to be punished with temporal pains. Where he allegeth the foremencioned place of S. Paul to the corinthians .3. chapter.  
But what need is it to recite places where S. Aug●… ine maketh special mention of the third state into whic● ◇〉 ●… ta'en do come after this life, commonly name purg●…, seing that so oftentimes he speaketh of charity to be done by the living to the dead? Which were vain to treat of, 
Prayer for the dead presupposeth purgatory.  if there were no such state, wherein the dead might be holpen and relieved by the charitable deeds of the living. May it therefore please you sirs to red S. Augustine in some such places( for to red all that he hath written to that end were very much and a great let to your domestical cares) and think verily ye will secretly agree in iudgement with us, though for shane and consideration of the stage ye play your part on, openly the same ye will not confess. red what he writeth in Enchiridio ad Laurentium cap. 10. Neither is it to be denied( saith he) but that the souls of the departed be relieved by the careful devotion of their friends that live, at what time the sacrifice of our mediator for them is offered, or when doles be made for them, &c. red his book de cura pro mortilis agenda. ca. 1. 4. 8. the ninth book of his confessions, cap. 11. 13. ultimo his 64. epistle ad Aurelium: and ye shall clearly see how seriously he teacheth the quick to pray, to offer sacrifice, to give almose for the dead, showing among the dead who haue good thereby, who haue not. And therefore in his book de haeresibus ad Quoduultdeum, he condemneth Aerius of heresy( and so consequently all others that be of his opinion) because to the heresies of the Arians he had added this also, that none ought to pray or make oblation for the dead. This much concerning purgatory after the mind of S. Augustine may suffice at this time, otherwise if so much should be uttered as we haue in the other fathers for proof of the same, it would require a whole book by itself alone.  
Where ye make S. Augustine very uncertain in this po●●●, as though he said, sometime there is such a certain pl●●●, sometime there may be such a one, sometime he doubted of it, sometime plainly denied any such to be: either ye understand not S. Augustine, or ye say contrary to your own knowledge. verily ye be to bold with him. First that he denieth purgatory, that is false. And where ye allege hypognostica in the margin of your book, red it once again at my request, and yourselves will say the place proveth not your purpose. 
Lib. 5. hypognostic●m.  The author of that work, whether he were S. Augustine, which Erasmus believeth not, or who so ever he was, denieth not Purgatory, but that after the day of general iudgement there is any place of everlasting rest or pain, but the kingdom of heaven and hell, that he denieth. Which we also deny. And there he speaketh against the Pelagians, 
Haeres. 88.  who, as S. Augustine writeth of them ad Quoduultdeum, promised to infants dying without baptism a certain everlasting and blessed life without and besides the kingdom of God. Which heresy in sundry places he reproveth. It seemeth the word Purgatorium noted in the margin of that book by thunlerned printer begiled you. Which sheweth how profoundely ye be sene in the doctors. Touching that he doubted, how and whereof he doubted, this is the truth. Of Purgatory S. Augustine doubted not, that is to say of temporal pains, which they suffer, that retaining the foundation haue builded thereon timber, haye, and stubble. Neither doubted he but that the dead in such case w● relieved by the charity of their living friends, as by sacrifices ●f the altar, almose, and prayer. The thing he doubted of touching this matter, is this. 
What is that S. Augustine doubted of touching purgatory.  Whether those temporal pains do onely punish for the satisfaction of the iustice of God, or also do purge and corrrect the souls of the dead in such wise as temporal pains are wont to do in this life. With which they, that be punished, being restrained and holden back, as himself speaketh, be corrected. Which also he calleth, ignem secularia, 
Coerciti. De civit. d. li. 21. c. 13.& 26. in Enchirid. c. 68. 69. De side& oper. c. 16.  hoc est, delitias amoresque terrenos& caetera huiusmodi concremantem atque exurentē, a fire, that burneth and consumeth away worldly things, as the delights and earthly pleasures that we love, and such other the like. Of those pains or of that fire, or rather of that quality and effect of the fire after this life, he doubted. As for example. There is some one who loveth Christ above all things, but therewith also he loveth wife, children, house, lands and goods, and that above the measure which he ought to keep. For such a man in this present time, it is easily perceived, how the fire of tribulation may burn and trouble and withall heal and amend his soul, because the sickness of wife and children, or loss of his temporal goods, will be such a grief unto him, that the smart thereof may teach him for ever after, to love more soberly and moderately those worldly gifts and commodities. But now whether the smart and sorrow of things left behind, which proceeded in this life of carnal affection, remain also to the souls after their departure from the body, whereof S. Augustine sheweth himself to stand in doubt in Enchiridio ad Lauren. cap. 68.& 69. and whether the fire which souls feel in purgatory as it paineth them, so also do by degrees diminish and correct those venial and secular affections, which they carried with thē at their death, or whether death itself do so end them, as there remain not any correction of the mind yet being vicious, but only the punisment of the sin past: that is the thing whereof S. Augustine seemeth to haue doubted. In effect his question is, whether the fire of purgatory be not double. The one which punisheth the venial sin past, the other which diminisheth and taketh away thaffection of sin yet remaining. Of the first he doubteth not, 
De civit. d. li. 21. Cap. 26. apology Id januar. Epist. 119.  of the other he saith, non redarguo, quia forsitan verum est, I say not against it, for peradventure it is true.  
As touching the multitude of vain and superfluous ceremonies, we know that Augustin did grievously complain of them in his own time: and therfore haue wee cut of a great number of them, because we know that mens consciences were cumbered about thē, and the Churches of God overladen with them. nevertheless we keep still and esteem not onely those ceremonies which we are sure were delivered us from the Apostles, but some others too besides, which we though might be suffered without hurt to the church of God, because we had a desire that all things in the holy congregation might( as Paul commandeth) be don with comeliness and in good order: but as for all those things which we saw were either very superstitious or unprofitable, or noisome, or mockeries, or contrary to the holy Scriptures, or else vnsemelie for honest and discrete folkes, as there be an infinite number now adays where Papistry is used, these I say wee haue utterly refused without all maner exception, because wee would not haue the right worshipping of God any longer defiled with such follies.   

THE SEVENTINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation. Of what manners and rites complained S. Augustine ●d januarium.  S. Augustine,( whom ye allege wrongfully against the ceremonies of the catholic church) speaketh only of the cutting away of such manners and rites, as be crept into some one particular country, neither contained in holy scriptures, nor established by councells of bishops, nor confirmed by custom of the whole church. But how prove ye by that place, that ye may pull down altars, by setttng up of the which in honour of Christ Chrysostome shewed the faith to haue ben received as well in other places as in our native country of britain? How prove ye thereby that Images 
Images.  of Christ and of his sainctes may be broken and thrown out of churches, 
3. reg. 1. 2. Paral 3. Breach of vows.  whereas God himself allowed certain Images of Angells to be set in Salomons temple? Did that place make you dissalowe the vow of poverty and the performance thereof, 
Mat. 19. Mar. 10.  to which thing Christ exhorted the rich young man in the gospel? Did it make you disprove their profession who accordingly as Christ said, 
Mat. 19.  made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven? What shall I speak of a number of holy sacramentes, professions, and ceremonies, which being expressly contained in scripture, allowed in councils, and received in the whole church, ye haue cast away as void and superfluous? look to that very epistle of S. Augustine from whence ye took that your authority. 
oil the matter of certain sacramentes. jacob. 5.  There shall ye finde oil name, as the matter of certain holy sacramentes, no less then water, bread, and wine. And yet haue ye not the use of oil in any sacrament, no not though S. james say, it ought to be used with prayer to the benefit of the sick. The fast of forty dayes before Easter is in the same epistle commended by the example of Moses, of Elias, of Christ. 
Lent.  And yet ye are afraid lest it be a superstitious ceremony to fast a certain number of dayes for religions sake. 
Ceremonies can not be taken away by private authority.  Last of all S. Augustine referreth the taking away of any custom or maner unto due authority, exhorting it to be done, ubi facultas tribuitur. Where power is given to do it. Neither else may it be done lawfully at all.  
But with what authority may one realm undo the custom of the whole church? If any one city of the realm of England should take vpon it to change the parliament lawe of the same realm, it should be forthwith punished as having committed an act rebellious and traitorous. And think ye to escape the terrible iudgement of God, who set less by his kingdom of the church, then by your own temporal dominion? Ye think we haue many ridiculous and fond things in our ceremonies. If we had( as in dede we haue not) would ye laugh at them, 
Gen. 9.  as Cham did at the nakedness of his father Noe? Yet Sem and japhet would reverently and shamefastly cover them. But seing the same our ceremonies be such, as either express Christes life and death, or provoke us to godliness and devotion, laugh on ye accursed Cananees, but we will dance before the ark of God with king david. 
2. Reg. 6.  We will shear our head with Paul, 
Act. 18.  and become idiculous in your sight, to thintent we may profess boldly the honour of God, who esteemed Sem, more then Cham, david more then Michol, Paul more then seditious men, who would know a reason why women should be covered in the church rather then men, 
1. Cor. 11.  whereas the church of God was not accustomend to such a contentious kind of reasoning.  

apology.  We make our prayers in that tongue which all our people, as meet is, may understand, to th'end they may( as Paul counseleth us) take common commodity by common prayer: even as all the holy Fathers and catholic Byshops both in the old and new Testament did use to pray themselves, and taught the people to pray to, least as Augustin saith, like Parottes and Ousells we should seem to speak that we understand not.  

Confutation.  Concerning this whole matter and the objection of Perrottes and Owsels I haue treated sufficiently in my answer to M. Iuelles challenge. article. 4.  

apology  Neither haue we any other mediator and intercessor, by whom wee may haue access to God the Father, then Iesu Christ in whose onely name all things are obtained at his Fathers hand. But it is a shameful parte and full of infidelity that we see every where used in the Churches of our aduersaries, not onely in that they will haue innumerable sorts of mediators, and that vterly without the authority of Goddes word. 
Ierem. Ca. 2.&. 11.  So that as ieremy saith, the saints be now as many in number, or rather above the number of the Cities; and poor men cannot tel to which saint it were best to turn them first. And though there be so many as they cannot be told, yet every one of them hath peculiar duty and office assigned unto him of these folkes, what thing they ought to ask, what to give, and what to bring to pass: but besides this also, in that they do not only wickedly, but also shamelessly call vpon the blessed virgin Christes mother, 
Bernardus.  to haue her remember that she is a mother, and to command her son, and to use a mothers authority over him.   

THE EIGHTINTH CHAPTER.  
We haue but only one mediator to salvation Iesus Christ, by whose merites God is reconciled unto vs. 
Confutation.  But where ye say that besides the same one mediator, 
There is but one mediator of salvation who is Christ only. Bu● the sainctes his friends be mediators of intercession. 2. Cor. 1  ye haue none other that may pray or make intercession for you, that point of false belief ye may keep for yourselves. We had rather hold with S. Paul, who as he prayed for all Christen men, so he doubted not to say to the Corinthians, that he hoped to escape danger, adiuuantibus vobis in oratione pro nobis, by the help of you in prayer for vs. If one good man may help an other in this life by prayer, whiles he hath yet somewhat of his own to be careful fore: much more the sainctes which are dissolved and reign with Christ, can help us with their perfit prayer. Ye can tell( I trow) that S. jerome made this argument within little of twelve hundred yeres past. Neither make we them Gods, as ye would seem to say by the place( which being spoken by the prophet ieremy of very Idols) ye apply to the friends of Christ. 
Psal. 138.  Whom david saith to be unto him most honourable, and their dominion to be most strong. There is no cause why ye should wonder, 
Sainctes be peculiar pations of certain places. Dan 10.&. 12.  if diverse Cities do gladly aclowledge some one holy angel, Apostle, Martyr, or Confessor, as their chief patron and friend? For if( as it is written) Michael the archangel was once prince of the Iewes, and stood always for the children of Gods people: it is not to be doubted but that Christen people haue now also their patrons. To this propose some apply that which is written, 
Sapien. 3.  fulgebunt justi& tanquam scintillae in arundi neto discurrent, iudicabunt nationes,& dominabuntur populis,& regnabit dominus illorum in perpetuum. The iustmen shall shine, and like sparks of fire in( dry) kickes shall ronne abroad they shall judge nations, and bear rule over peoples, and our Lord shall reign over them for ever. 
In fine lib. 8. comment. in Lucam.  S. Ambrose is of that opinion plainly, where he saith writing vpon S. Luke, sicut angeli praesunt, ita& ij qui vitam meruerint angelorum. As the Angels be over nations, so they also which deserve the life of Angels.  
Concerning the offices that ye say we appoint unto the Sainctes, ye must understand, that as God hath shewed by any miracle, what good work he hath wrought by this saint rather then by that: so the people desire to obtain of God by the same sainctes prayer that thing, wherein they may conjecture, 
Intercession of the blessed virgin Marye.  that God hath given him most grace. And because our Lady the blessed virgin Mary hath more grace given to her, then any other creature( except ye can name a greater grace then to be the mother of God): therefore all Christen nations are most bold to desire in prayer to be relieved by her intercession and the mediation of her prayer made to her son Iesus Christ, who( we doubt not) heareth her most gladly, as nolesse intending to do good by her continually to us, then we are sure that by her he hath done for us those great benefits, which continually we do receive, for so much as he took flesh of her. 
Rom. 8.  And seing that Christ is the first begotē among many brothers, we that are called into one heritage with him and by him, 
Marye mother to all that love Christ. johan. 19.  may take hart to account Christes mother for our mother, specially whereas he said unto John his disciple, and in him to all the children of grace, behold thy mother.  
If now any spiritual man such as S. Bernard was, 
spiritual familiarity with the mother of God, in excess of mind and sovereign devotion.  deeply considering the great honour and dignity of Christes mother, do in excess of mind spiritually sport and dally( as it were) with her, bidding her to remember, that she is a mother, and that thereby she hath a certain right to command her son, and require in a most sweet maner that she use her right: is this either impiously or impudently spoken? Is not he rather most impious and impudent that findeth fault therewith? If ever any of you had practised in contemplation any of that sweetness which is in canticis can●●orum, ye should haue found, that there the spiritual soul is bolder with God her creator and spouse, then S. Bernard ever was with our Lady, being but a creature and a member of the same church with him.  
We say also, that every person is born in sin, 
apology  and leadeth his life in sin: that no body is able truly to say, his heart is clean. That the most righteous person is but an unprofitable servant: That the law of God is perfit, and requireth of us perfect and full obedience: That we are able by no means to fulfil that law in this worldly life: That there is no one mortal creature which can be justified by his own deserts in Goddes sight, and therefore that our only succour and refuge is to fly to the mercy of our Father by Iesu Christ, and assuredly to persuade our minds, that he is the obtayner of forgiveness for our sins. And that by his blood al our spots of sin be washed clean: That he hath pacified and set at one all things by the blood of his cross: That he by the same one onely Sacrifice which he once offered upon the cross, hath brought to effect and fulfilled the things, and that for that cause he said when he gave up the ghost, It is finished, as though he would signify that the price and ramsome was now full paid for the sin of all mankind. Yf there be any that think this sacrifice not sufficient, let them go in Gods name and seek an other that is better. We verily, because we know this to be the onely sacrifice, are well content with it alone, and look for none other: and forasmuch as it was to be offered but once, we command it not to be renewed again. And because it was full and perfit in all points and partes, we do not ordain in place thereof any continual succession of offerings.   

THE NYNETINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  That a man is born in sin we grant, and likewise that he liveth in the same sin and also in others of his own doing, until he be regenerated in Christ. And from that day he that is of lawful age can not lightly continue so just, but that he shall offend at lest in some of those smaller faults, which our life by thought, word and dede is daily subject unto. Likewise if we look to that severe and strait examination of God, wherein he sitteth judge, who knoweth us better, then we know ourselves: then no man is so just, as may dare to say, my hart is clean. Although some just man may well say with S. Paul. 
1. Cor. 4.  I am not guilty to myself of any thing: but before God who seeth farther in him, he is not thereby justified. 
How are we unprofitable servants, and how are we made profitable. Psalm. 15. Rom. 8. joan. 15. Ephes. 2. John. 15. 2. Tim. 2.  We are also unprofitable servants of ourselves, both for that we can do nothing that is good, of ourselves, and also for that we can give nothing to God whereof he hath need, as david saieth to him. Bonorum meorum non eges. Thou hast no need of my good things. Yet by his grace he maketh us his sons by adoption, his friends also, free and household servants, not bond servants who know not their maisters will, and so we be his profitable servants as whom S. Paul calleth, Vessels sanctified and profitable to the master, ready to every good work. Which he might haue learned of Christ himself who saieth in S. john, 
John. 15.  I haue chosen you and appointed you to go, and to bring forth fruit, that your fruit remain. And as by his mercy and grace of bond and unprofitable, he hath made us free and profitable servants, and hath taken us unto himself to be his sons by adoption, and name us his friends: so he hath promised us life everlasting, if we keep his commandments. Which promise once made, we are bound to believe that God will perform. And so now through grace we deserve heaven by our obeing his commandments, because it hath pleased him to bind himself to that covenant. In respect whereof S. John doubted not to make him say of certain chast men, Ambulabunt mecum in albis, quia digni sunt. 
Apoc●l. 3.  They shall walk with me all in white, because they be worthy. Thus we then that should haue ben unprofitable by nature, are by grace made profitable and worthy to walk with God.  
Where ye say that his lawe is perfit we confess the same. 
How the lawe requireth of us perfit obedience.  when ye add that it requireth of us perfit and full obedience, we answer, it doth so: but in such sort, as perfection may be obtained in this life. For as there is a perfection of children, a perfection of men, a perfection of angels, and a perfection of God, every one a perfection in his kind, and that a greater also in respect of a lesser perfection, but the perfection of God only absolute and in itself perfit: so is there one perfection of this life, an other of the life to come. Now the lawe of God requireth of us in this life such full and perfit obedience, as may be had in this life, 
Perfectio viatorum.  which the fathers call the perfection of waye-faring men. and requireth such full obedience in heaven, as shal be most perfit there. Ye therefore make a sophistical argument, when ye teach, because the lawe of God requireth of us full obedience, that therefore it can not be satisfied in this life by any means. For when ye say it requireth of us full obedience, if ye mean such full obedience, as is required only in this life, then conclude ye falsely, that we can by no means satisfy it. But if ye mean such full obedience, as is only performed in heaven, then ye conclude well, that we in this life can not fulfil such perfection, as is required in heaven. But then haue ye said nothing to the purpose. For we know what mark ye shoot at, by your doctrine uttered in other places. Your meaning is that no man in this life is able by the grace of God to fulfil the commandments. For your words, by no means, do even so much import. So haue your Maisters taught before you. And therein ye follow their heresies, so as ye dare, uttering them in obscure words. 
God commandeth not that which is impo●sible to a man in grace.  that if ye can not abide by them, ye may say ye mean● not so. We believe God commandeth us nothing impossible to vs. Otherwise how could he justly punish for not doing that commandment, which by no means we were able to fulfil? We are sure that God punisheth us no man unjustly, 
2. Par. 19.  for Non est apud dominum Deum nostrum iniquitas. There is no iniquity in our Lord God. And yet he punisheth with everlasting fire covetous men, aduoutrers, fornicators, slanderers, murtherers, heretics, and such other offenders. Therefore we believe that they might haue avoyded those sins by such grace as God would haue given them, if their iniquity had not otherwise deserved. 
Deut. 30.  moses speaking of the fulfilling of the commandments of God, which also S. Paul repeateth, 
Rom. 10.  saith, that they are not above us in heaven, neither far from us beyond the sea. but hardly thee( saieth he) is his word in thy mouth and in thy heart, that thou mayst do it. And Christ saith, 
Matth. 11. 1. John. 5.  jugum meum suaue est,& onus meum leave. My yoke is sweet and my burden light: and S. John, his commandments be not heavy. How then are they such 〈◇〉 by no means may be satisfied in this life? Can not God give as great grace to fulfil them, as he giveth great commandments? In dede no man is able by his own strength to fulfil the lest of them, and much less is he able to be justified by his own strength. But we speak of christen men, who are one body with Christ their head, from whom influence of grace cometh to all members, which is able to make, and in dede hath made of very stones the children to Abraham. 
Matth. 3. Rom. 5.  Of whom S. Paul saith, that the charity of God is powred abroad in our hartes by the holy ghost, which is given unto vs. And S. Augustine saith in his book de natura et gratia, both that God could not command impossible precepts to be kept, because he is just and good, 
Cap. 69.  and also that ( omnia fiunt facilia charitati) all things are made easy to charity. He then that saith, we can by no means fulfil the lawe of God, maketh God unjust and evil or impotent, and not able to give so much grace as may help to fulfil his lawe. Let the discrete reader judge what blasphemy your words contain. Touching the sacrifice of Christ, we believe that, whereas all the world was in state of damnation, as well for original as actual sin: 
Christ crucified our only sacrifice.  Iesus Christ dyed on the cross, and with his blood hath paid a sufficient and full ransom for all the sins of the world. And this only sacrifice we do aclowledge, neither do we admit any other to succeed the same. 
The same sacrifice always continued by an other maner of offering. Psal. 109.  But we also believe that the same sacrifice, the same I say in substance, but not in the maner of the offering once done bloudely, is now offered up daily vnbloudely, because Christ as the scriptures say, remaineth a priest for ever according to the order of Melchisedech. We do not therfore substitute as ye belie us, the successions of many. But we say that the same body which died once for us, is continually given for us, 
luke. 22. 1. Cor. 11.  this is my body( saith he) which is given for you, do this in my remembrance. Lo the self same body is given for us in our lords supper, that was given for us vpon the cross, there, as the whole price of our redemption, here, both as a remembrance of the same to us, and also as a mean to obtain the merit of our redemption on the cross wrought and perfited. We then in our sacrifice, by the continue the remembrance of that bloody sacrifice, by the consecration and offering of the selfsame body vnbloudely. belie us no more hereafter. This is our doctrine, better founded in the word of God, and in the tradition of the Apostles, and in the custom of the whole church, then that ye shall ever be able to overthrow it. Blaspheme and bark against it ye may, overcome ye can not.  

apology  Besides, though wee say we haue no meed at all by our own works and deeds, but appoint all the means of our salvation to be in christ alone, yet say we not that for this cause men ought to live looslie and dissolutely: nor that it is enough for a Christian to be Bapeized onely and to believe, as though there were nothing else required at his hand, for true faith is lively, and can in no wise be idle. Thus therefore teach wee the people, that God hath called us not to follow riot and wantonness, but as Paul saith, unto good works, to walk in them. That God hath plucked us out from the power of darkness to serve the living God: to cut away all the remnauntes of sin, and to work our salvation in fear and trembling, that it may appear how that the Spirit of sanctification is in our bodies, and that Christ himself doth dwell in our heartes.   

THE XX. CHAPTER.  

Confutation. The Defenders teach our good works to help us nothing at all.  With what face can these Defenders affirm, that they teach the people to walk in good works, whereas beginning the treatise of works in this present apology, they say that we haue no help or aid in our works and deeds? For so their latin word praesidium doth signify, which in the english, is turned into meed. What maisters is this the way to make men work well, to tell them before hand, that their works be nothing worth, and that they help them never a whit? Why then, let the labourers proverb take place, I had rather play for nothing then work for nothing. Is there any labourer so mad, as to work for nothing? First ye tell the labourers, that there is no help for them in their works, and then ye cry unto them to labour, yea forsooth as hard as they list. Is not this to mock God and the world? If ye spake to painymes and Iewes, to those that were without the faith of Christ, we would say with you, that they had no help to salvation in their works, because they had not the true foundation of faith, whereupon works must be builded. 
Heb. 11.  For without faith it is impossible to please God. But ye whereas ye speak to Christen men, to those that be baptized, to such as haue faith: yet ye tell thē, they may work as much as they will, but all in vain. What other thing is this then to give as it were a watch word to all persons, that they work no goodness at all? Nay but we teach( say ye) that true faith is lively, and can not be idle. If this be true, there is no true faith amongst you, where are so few good works, so much false doctrine, so dissolute a life. True faith( say ye) can not be idle, but your faith is idle, as rather destroying all the good works done in old time, then making any new of your own: therefore say we your faith is not true. And this much to your persons.  
But now let us try whether this proposition be true, 
The examination of this proposition, true faith is lively.  wherein ye say true faith is lively. We finde these words( true faith) to be ambiguous, and that they may be taken two ways. For as a man may be true of nature, having a true body and a true reasonable soul, and basides that may also be true in keeping his promise: even so faith may be true in his own nature,( which is to believe all things that God hath revealed) and it may be farther true in keeping promise, that is to say, in performyng that in dede, which was promised at the font in word, where every Christen man promiseth to renounce the devill, the world, the flesh. And contrariwise faith may be true one way, and not true the other way. as a man may haue a true body and soul, and yet neither a true heart to God, neither a true performance of his word to his neighbour. For many thieves and usurers believe all that God hath commanded them to believe, and know that they do nought, and yet will they not leave their evil doings. The which kind of Christen men haue true faith in believing, but not true faith in performing their obedience which they promised in dede. That faith which believeth and doth not perform, is dead in comparison of bringing us to heaven, and yet is it a true faith in the nature of faith. For faith is called lively of an other virtue, which is without his own proper nature, and that virtue is charity. For neither circumcision( saith the Apostle) neither uncircumcision is any thing worth but faith which worketh by charity. 
Galat. 5.  Lo if S. Paul require a faith that worketh by charity, he doth us thereby to understand, that faith also may be without working by charity, according to that the Apostle saith in another place, 
1. Cor. 13.  that faith, hope, and charity are three. And yet more plainly he saith. If I haue all faith so as I may remove mountaines, and haue not charity, I am nothing. Where, by all faith, he meaneth al that is faith in the proper nature of faith. For if I haue charity with my faith, I haue more thē faith, and then my faith is lively. 
jacob. 2.  But faith without charity, as S. james saith, is like a body without the spirit. Now as a dead body doth cease to be that it was,( for example, a beast, or a man) but it ceaseth not to be a body, even so faith without charity ceaseth to justify, to work helthfully, to be lively, but it ceaseth not to be true faith in that nature which peculiarly belongeth to faith. For as a christen man differeth from a man, so doth lively faith differre from faith. And as he that is no christen man, may be a true man: so he that hath no lively faith, may haue a true faith.  
Thus ye see that not every true faith is a lively faith, and yet so ye would mean, as though it could in no sense be a true faith which is not a lively faith. And yet to show it more plainly, as he may be called a dead man in comparison of life to come, who is not Christened, but remaineth a heathen or a Iewe: so that faith is dead, which worketh not by charity. But as the heathen or Iewe is a true man in his nature: so that faith which in respect of salvation is called dead, is a true faith in the nature of faith. Ergo then although a lively faith can not be idle, and some true faith is lively, yet in an other sense, there is a true faith which is not lively, but idle. Which true faith shall become lively and haue great aid in works, if it will learn to leave idleness, and practise that in will and heart, which it believeth in understanding.  
But whereas these Defenders would no help or aid to be in Christen mens works, that heresy may not so escape. 
That good works help vs. Matth. 19.  Christ being demanded of one what good he should do to obtain everlasting life, said. If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. To keep the commandments is a work, to enter into life is some help to a man, therefore it is falsely spoken, that in our works there is no help for vs. again Christ saith. Who soever forsaketh his house, or brothers, 
Ibid.  or miters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands for my sake, he shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit life everlasting. S. Paul saith, 
Rom. 2.  God will render to every man according to his works. To those that seek for glory and honour and incorruption, according to the sufferance of good works,( he will render) life everlasting. All this is no help to our Defenders. and that they prove, because they put the whole account of their salvation in Christ. By which words they would signify, as though those which say there is a great help in works, did not put also their whole account of their salvation in the same Christ. Yeas maisters they that say great help of attaining life everlasting to be in faithful mens works, are better grounded vpon Christ alone, 
Ephes. 2.  who both doth work good works in us, and also rewardeth the same, then ye, who deny that reward unto works, which Christ hath promised. For what account of salvation can ye haue in Christ, who make him to say false, and to give no reward of life everlasting unto works, whereas so plainly he promised for them( being done in faith) life everlasting? For we make a great difference between the works of Christen men and of infidels. The works done without faith, can deserve no reward of eternal life, but the works of Christen men be esteemed with God meritorious; because they are done within that body whereof Christ is head, and done by the grace which came from heaven, and done for his sake who being debtor to nomam became debtor to himself promysing reward to them that labour in his vineyard, 
Matth. 20.  and made covenant with them for a penny, which penny by interpretation both of the greeks and latins doth signify life everlasting.  

apology  To conclude, we believe that this ourself same flesh wherein we live, although it die and come do dust, yet at the last day it shall return again to life by the means of Christes spirit which dweleth in us, and that then verily whatsoever we suffer here in the mean while for his sake, Christ will wipe from of our eyes all tears and lamentation, and that we through him shall enjoy everlasting life, and shall for ever be with him in glory. So be it.   

THE. XXI. CHAPTER.  

Confution.  Last of all ye believe( as ye say) that this very flesh shall return to life, and that for the spirit of Christ which dwelleth in vs. There is no doubt but the spirit of Christ is sufficient ro raise up their bodies in whom it dwelleth. But we say that the raising of our flesh is also assigned in holy scripture, to the real and substantial eating of Christes flesh, because it is written: 
joan. 6.  he that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath life everlasting. And I will raise him again in the last day. Therefore the resurrection of the flesh is not only assigned in holy scripture to the spirit of Christ, but also to the worthy eating of his flesh. And thus we haue confuted the doctrine wherein ye declare your faith, and the chief grounds, whereon ye build your new gospel, we haue disproved.   
THE END OF THE SECOND PART.   

THE THIRD PART.  

apology.  behold these are the horrible 
a  heresies for the which a good parte of the world is at this day condemned by the 
b  bishop of Rome, and yet were never 
c  heard to plead their cause. He should haue commenced his suit rather against 
d  christ, against the Apostles, and against the holy fathers. For these things did not only procede from thē, but were also appointed by thē: except perhaps these men will say( as I think they will in deed) that Christ hath not instituted the holy 
e  Communion to be divided amongst the faithful. Or that Christes apostles and the ancient fathers haue said private masses in every corner of the Temples, now 
f  ten, now twenty togithers in one day: Or that Christ and his Apostles 
g  banished al the common people from the Sacrament of his blood: Or that the thing which themselves do at this day every where, and do it so as they condemn him for an heretic which doth otherwise, is not called of Gelasius their own doctor plain 
h  sacrilege: Or that these be not the very words of* Ambrose, Augustine, Gelasius, Theodorete, Chrysostome, and origen, The bread and wine in the Sacramentes remain still the same they were before: The thing which is seen vpon the holy table, is bread: there ceaseth not to be still the substance of bread and nature of wine: the substance and nature of bread are not changed: the self same bread as touching the material substance, goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the pryuei: Or that christ, the Apostles, and holy fathers prayed not in that 
i  tongue which the people might understand: Or that christ hath not performed all things by that one 
k  offering which he once offered: or that the same Sacrifice was imperfect, and so now we haue need of an other.  

THE FIRST CHAPTER.  
THus at length I haue brought to an end the confutation 
Confutation.  of your new belief. Whereabout I haue bē the longer, because in that part ye show the chief grounds of your whole doctrine. From henceforth I mind to be so short, as the matters will conveniently bear: verily shorter then the due consideration of them requireth.  
And first where ye say in jest these be horrible 
a  heresies, we tell you in earnest, they be so in dede, as now we haue declared. Albeit some truth is by you mingled with falsehood, 
Truth mingled with falsehood the rather to deceive. 2. Cor. 11.  the rather to deceive. That haue ye learned of the devill father of all heresies, who putteth on the shape of an angel of light, when he goeth about to beguile men and bring them to the works of darkness. But what crack ye of a good part of the world? The greater is the number of those ye haue seduced, the more grievous shal be your iudgement. There be not yet many yeres past, that ye boasted of your poor small flock, alluding to the fewness of the flock that lived with Christ in flesh, and made their fewness an argument of the sincere truth, but now that through your evil teaching, the world groweth more to be dissolute and wicked, ye boast of your number. Neither are ye condemned by the 
b  bishop of Rome only, whom by that report ye seek to charge with further hatred, but by the universal church of Christ represented of late in general council holden at Trent. But( ye say) they were 
c  never heard. They might haue ben heard if they would. Yea many times haue they ben required to give account of their doctrine, but for the more parte they refused, putting fault sometime in the iudges, sometime in the place they should repair unto, sometime in the parties they should haue conference withall. 
The protestantes invited by all gentleness to come to the late general council.  In the book of the late Tridentine council every man may see, with what gentleness, with what earnest request, with what liberty and safety, with what provision of things in that behalf needful,( I mean safe conducts to come and go, there to remain, to propone and dispute freely) they were moved to come to that council, and there promised with all humanity to be heard. Where not appearing, they were duly condemned, and in general pronounced accursed for maintenance of sundry great and detestable heresies. again who knoweth not how oftentimes they were heard to say what they could say for their doctrine, in sundry synods and conferences, at Reigenspurg, at worms, and other wheres? Where how far beside truth and reason they demeaned themselves, how sometimes they conveyed themselves privily away, how untrue reports of things done they made, and what lies afterward they set abroad in their books: as it were over long here to declare, so they that read the true stories of our time, may well remember. Therefore ye haue no cause to complain of their condemnation without being heard.  
As for the 
d  things that proceeded from Christ, and the Apostles, and were by them appointed, the church to whom he promised to send his holy spirit to led them into all truth, with whom he promised to be to the worlds end, 
joan. 14.  is not now in this later time of the world to learn, 
mat. 28.  and to be instructed therein at your hands. This is certain, touching grounds of truth, the church erreth not, as that which enjoyeth Christes promise, and your congregation teaching the contrary must therefore be taken for children of the father of lies. 
joan. 8.  Touching the 
e.  communion to be divided amongst the faithful, who is not received thereto, 
1. Cor. 11.  that hath so examined himself, as S. Paul requireth in that case? 
f  Though ten or twenty masses were not said in one day by Christ, the Apostles, or fathers, as ye scoff, when the faith was first preached, and few believed, no churches( which here not without profane malice ye name Temples) yet being built: this is no sufficient reason why we may not now where the faith is generally received, haue sundry masses in one church in one day. Ye make much a do about 
g.  both kindes, and to aggravate the matter ye use the odious term of bannishing the people from the cup. We teach the people for good causes to be content with one kind, doing them to understand, they receive the whole body of Christ, flesh and blood, no less then if they received both kindes. yourselves are they which banish the people from thinestimable treasure both of the body and also blood of Christ, forasmuch as by your wills according to your sacramentary heresy in stede thereof ye deliver thē nothing but bread and wine. 
h  The sacrilege which Gelasius speaketh of consisteth in dividing Christ, and the same he imputeth to the Maniches, as I haue an other where declared. 
To M. Iuelles challenge. article. 2.  And therefore as that toucheth not us, who do not divide Christ, but in the sacrament give to the people whole Christ, so it sheweth you to be either slanderous or ignorant. The names of 
i  Ambrose, Augustine, Gelasius, Theodorite, Chrysostom, and Origen, ye report here again to your further shane. For who reading that which I haue now answered to their places here before, will not espy your craft and falsehood? There the proofs and reasons which ye bring against transubstantiation and for the remaining of bread and wine in the sacrament after consecration, be plainly disproved and avoided. As here ye do but repeat the same, so for answer I think it enough to that place to refer the reader. As for the tongue 
k  of the church service, how so ever Christ, the Apostles and holy fathers prayed, the use of the latin tongue used in the service of the latin church is not by any reason or authority ye can bring yet so far disproved, that the church ought to condemn the order from the beginning received and hitherto continued. Concerning the 
l  sacrifice of Christ on the cross, it is perfit. That we haue in the altar is the same, not an other, though it differ in the maner of offering, how often times must we tell it you?  

apology  All these things must they of necessity say, unless perchance they had rather say thus, 
Dist. 36. lect. in glosa.  that all lawe and right is locked up in the treasury of the Popes breast, and that as once one of his southing pages and clawbackes did not stick to say, the Pope is able to dispense against the Apostles, against a council, and against the Canons and rules of the Apostles, 
Dist. 82. c. presbyter.  and that he is not bound to stand neither to the examples, nor to the ordinances, nor to the laws of Christ.  
To say that all Lawe and right( your latin term is fas) is locked up in the treasury of the Popes breast, 
Confutation.  it were absurd and unreasonable. 
It is no reason that divines be required to make good what so ever is written by the canonists or schoolmen.  Mary to say that the laws rest in the Popes breast, after a certain meaning, as hereafter shal be declared, it is not altogether beside truth and reason. But sirs what if some mean writer or gloser vpon the canon Lawe speak somewhere out of square, if all should be exactly tried by scripture, will ye lay that to our charge? Shall the faith of the catholic church thereby be called in doubt and question? We take not upon us to defend all that the canonists or scolemen say or writ. Yet we know ye can not charge them with any error in matters of Christen faith. And what maketh that ye allege here for your defence?  
That which the gloze noteth in c. lector. et c. presbyter, the author of it putteth it not affirmatively, but by way of moving a doubt, and giveth occasion to seek further, as the maner of those interpreters is. Who so ever weigheth well the text in c. lector, he can not rightly gather thereof, that the Pope dispenseth against the Apostle, because for necessities sake it is granted to bigamus 
bigamus. ( that is one twice married or having a wife twice married) to be made subdeacon. 
things good of themselves and of their own nature be indispensible. Panor. etc. in c. proposuit. De concess. prebend. exira. §. said naturalia. Instit. de jur. nat. Gent.& civili.  For where hath the Apostle forbidden a bigamus to be made subdeacon? Touching the matter itself, occasion of search whereof the gloze there ministereth, thus think the learned men of that profession. That certain things be good by their selves and of their own nature, in which this is a sure rule, that they be immutable, and that by no dispensation they can be taken away or changed. Such be all those things that pertain to christen faith in the lawe of God by their own nature good, and by lawe of nature so firm, as no Pope be he never so much Gods vicar in earth, may therein dispense, no more then( if it be lawful to compare small things with great) a bishops chancellor may consecrate priestes, which is in the power of a bishop only, and is not contained in the function or commission of a deputy or chancellor. 
things good by occasion be in certain cases dispensable. Axiomata fidei.  Some things be good not of their own nature, but by occasion. In this kind or order be many things, which may rather be called rules of manners, then principles, or such as we term axiomata of our faith. These although they be found written in the scripture, forasmuch as they haue ben commanded by an occasion and for some cause, they may for cause and occasion, and as we find in c. lector, for necessity, by Gods deputy and vicar be supplied, holpen, expounded. And if the case so require, he in the same for a certain cause, with a certain person, for a certain time, with certain circumstances may despense, by the same spirit they were first founded and instituted withall, and with the same intention, to wit, for some special good, and furtherance of godliness. And in this case dispensation made by lawful authority is not to be grudged at, nor to be taken as injurious to the lawe of God, sith that the lawe and the dispensation tend to one end, and the lawe itself, if it could speak, in that case would say, touching the thing to be dispensed, that prohibition should not haue place. The same because the lawe and dead letter can not utter, the lawful magistrate being minister of the lawe, supplieth, as the lively voice of the lawe. But the things that be good of their own nature, so be they always good, as occasion or cause can never come, where it be right they haue not place. Such administration of Gods lawe, and such dispensation thereof, as of a precious treasure, not free or at liberty and pleasure, but an even, just, and good dispensation, they do attribute to Gods vicar, whom this Defender calleth the Popes parasites, pages, and clawbackes, him sefe a very page., slave, and clawbacke to the devill.  
We for our partes haue learned these things of Christ: 
apology.  of the Apostles, of the devout fathers, and do sincerely with good faith teach the people of God the same. Which thing is the only cause why we at this day are called heretics of the chief prelate( no doubt) of religion. O immortal God hath Christ himself then, the Apostles and so many fathers, all at once gone a stray? Were then origen, Ambrose, Augustine, Chrysostom, Gelasius, Theodorit forsakers of the catholic faith? Was so notable a consent of so many ancient bishops and learned men no thing elles, but a conspiracy of heretics? Or is that now condemned in us, which was then commended in them? Or is the thing now by alteration only of mens affection suddenly become schismatic, which in them was counted, catholic? Or shall that which in times past was true, now by and by, because it liketh not these men, be judged false? Let thē then bring fourth an other gospel, and let them show the causes why these things which so long haue openly ben observed, and well allowed in the church of God, ought now in the end be called again. We know well enough, that the same word which was opened by Christ, and spread abroad by the Apostles is sufficient, both our salvation and all truth to uphold and maintain, and also to confounded all maner of heresy. By that word only do we condemn all sorts of the old heretics, whom these men say we haue called out of hell again. As for the Arians, Eutichians, the Marcionites, the Ebionites, the Valentinians, the Carpocratians, the Tatians, the Nouatians, and shortly all them which haue a wicked opinion either of God the Father or of Christ, or of the holy ghost, or of any other point of Christian religion, for so much as they be confuted by the gospel of Christ, we plainly pronounce them for detestable and castaway personnes, and defy them even unto the devill. Neither do we leave them so, but we also severely and straightely hold them in by lawful and politic pounishements, if they fortune to break out anywhere and bewray themselves.  
We for our part know as now we haue proved, 
Confutation.  that ye haue not learned these things of Christ, nor of the Apostles, nor of the fathers, but of Luther, Zwinglius, Oecolampadius, calvin, Peter Martyr, Bucer and such other Apostates, and that ye do most falsely and wickedly led the people in to the pit with you. And therefore ye are justly condemned by the church and deemed heretics. O merciful Christ how great is thy patience and longanimity, that sufferest not only thine Apostles and the holy fathers thy dere friends, but also thine own self, who art the very truth itself, to be so wrested by these rebellious sons, and alleged by them for vphoulding and maintenance of their lies and plasphemies? What impudency is it to call Origen, Ambrose, Augustine, Chrysostom, Gelasius, Theodorite, to witness against the truth, specially in those places, where they give irrefragable testimony of truth? Lord how would they triumph if( which is not possible) they found the hundred part against the matters we defend, in respect of that we find for defence of the truth? And could this marvelous and from God proceeding consent of such learned and holy fathers be so mangled by false gloses, and expositions, nippinges and cuttinges of their sentences, by other then heretics, mockers of their mother, despisers of God? But who will hear these falsaries, and not cleave rather to the sense of the holy ghost in these holy fathers writings uttered? How can that now seem to serve heretics, whereby they confuted and vanquished heresies? And yet they be not ashamed so to turn and toss their works, as they would make the people ween, they stood by them, and we were thrown down by them. Seeing then this is so, let them not go about to set up a new religion, but submit their necks under the gospel of Christ preached by the Apostles, confirmed by miracles, increased by the blood and holy life of so many martyrs and confessors, by holy doctors and obedience of christen people continued to our times. For now in the end of the world we can not be brought back from that old to believe a new gospel. Yet who crack more of the gospel then these perverters of the gospel? Who speak so much of Gods word, as they whose heartes the devil hath made his shop, wherein to forge wicked lies for the maintenance of his kingdom? Who would be seen more to condemn certain old heresies, then these scowrers of old, and forgers of new heresies? They condemn forsooth the Arians, the Eutychians, the Marcionites, the Ebionites, the Valentinians, the Carpocratians, the Tatians, the Nouatians, and all other heretics( for so they boast) and detest them( as they say) vsque ad inferorum portas, that is, even to hell gates.  
Would God they would repent, and so obtain grace, that they might be saved. else if they will not, but continue incorrigible, rather then that they should bring so great multitudes of people, for whom Christ hath  shed his blood, to everlasting damnation: it were good for Christen people, as they detest certain those old heresies even to hell gates, that so with the authors of them( except it may please God to give them grace to repent) they entred into hell with their heresies also, that the gates of hell being shut fast vpon them, they might come no more abroad in the world, and haue no more power to poison the people of God, 
The Defenders haue not condemned all old heresies. Maniches. Aug. de haeresib. c. 45. Epiphan. lib. 3. haeresi. 75. Vigilantius.  as they do. But how say ye Sirs, haue ye condemned all old heresies? and may we believe you? How condemn ye the Maniches, seing with Manichaeus ye deny free will, and despise the holy fasts of certain daies appointed by the church? How is Aērius by you condemned, seing ye rob the dead of the blessed sacrifice of the altar, prayers, and almose to be made for them, which both Epiphanius, and S. Augustine do reckon for heresy? How is Vigilantius by you condemned, seing ye suffer no tapers nor lights to burn in your churches, seing ye can not abide the sign of the cross, and the worshipping of sainctes, seing ye cast the holy relics of Martyrs into the fire or dongmixons? For such was his doctrine as S. jerome writing against him witnesseth. 
Ad exuperium. Iouinianus.  How is jovinian by you condemned, seing besides other heresies which he held common with other heretics, ye put no difference of merit between the state of virginity and marriage, 
Ad Quodnultdeum haeraes. 82. Donatistes. Contra Donatist. Lib. 6.  whom both S. jerome and Augustine condemn for an heretic? How condemn ye the Donatistes, seing with them ye break and throw down the holy altars of God, on which( as Optatus writeth) the body and blood of Christ was wont to be laid? Other heretics might I here recite, whose perverse and damnable doctrines ye follow, but these are to many, and to prosecute all I haue not purposed. As for the wicked and devilish deeds done be any the heretics of old time what so ever they were, if in comparison thereof your cousinage with them were declared, it would sone appear, that ye condemn them not, but follow them, and resemble them as children do their parentes, and be as like to them, as though ye were crept out of their mouths and breasts.  

apology  In deed we grant that certain new and very strange sects, as the Anabaptistes, Libertines, Menonians, and Zwenefeldians haue ben stirring in the world euersence the Gospel did first spring. But the world seeth now right well, thankes be given to our God, that wee neither haue bred nor taught, nor kept up these monsters. In good fellowship I pray the whosoever thou be, red our books, they are to be sold in every place: What hath there ever ben written by any of our company, which might plainly bear with the madness of any of those heretics? Nay I say unto you, there is no country at this day so free from their pestilent infections, as they be wherein the gospel is freely and commonly taught. So that yf they wey the very matter with earnest and upright advisement, this thing is a great argument, that this same is the very truth of the gospel which we do teach. For lightly neither is cockle wont to grow without the wheat, nor yet the chaff without the corn. For from the very Apostles times, who knoweth not how many heresies did rise up even together, so soon as the gospel was first spread abroad? Who ever had heard tel of Simon, Menander, Saturninus, Basilides, Carpocrates, Cherinthus, Ebion, Valentinus, Secundus, Marcosius, Colorbasius, Heracleo, Lucianus, and severus, before the Apostles were sent abroad? But why stand wee reckoning up these? Epiphanius rehearseth up four score sundry heresies, and Augustine many more, which did spring up even together with the gospel. What then? Was the gospel therfore not the gospel, because heresies sprung up withall? Or was Christ therefore not Christ? And yet as we said, doth not this great crop and heap of heresies grow up amongst us, which do openly a broad and frankly teach the gospel? These poysones take their begininges, their encreasinges, and strength amongst our aduersaries, in blindness and in darkness, amongst whom truth is with tyranny and cruelty kept under, and cannot be heard but in corners and secret meetings. But let them make a proof, let them give the gospel free passage, let the truth of Iesu christ give his clear light and stretch forth his bright beams into all partes, and then shall they forthwith see howe all these shadows streight will vanish and pass away at the light of the Gospel, even as the thick gat of the night consumith at the sight of the sun. For whilst these men sit still and make merry, and do nothing, we continually repress and put back all those heresies, which they falsely charge us to nourish and maintain.   

THE SECOND CHAPTER.  
Ye take witness of al the world that ye neither brought forth, 
Confutation.  nor taught, nor fostered the monsters which the world is now cumbered withall, the Anabaptistes, Libertines, Memnonians, and Zuenkfeldians. First forasmuch as there are many other sects now adays, and the same nolesse known to you, and nolesse by others imputed to you, then these four which here ye haue name: ye seem by refusing only these, to allow al the other, to wit, Osiandrines, Adiaphoristes, Antinomians, 
The crop of heresies of our time.  new Maniches, Infernals, Image breakers, Trinitarians, and a number of other better known to you, then to us, and yet more known to us, then we would wish. Were it therefore granted, that those four first name monsters came not out of you: yet were it not evil enough, that ye brought forth all these other bastard sects?  
But now we affirm that those four also are your accursed brood. 
The beginning of martin Luthers gospel, and of the heresies which thereof sprung. Zuingli{us} and Oecolampadius. A meeting of Lutherans and zwinglians at Marpurg. Anabaptistes.  When Luther had begun his false gospel in the year of our lord God. 1517. affirming that the substance of bread and wine remained after consecration in the sacrament of the altar with the true body and blood of Christ: did not Zuinglius four yeres after partly follow that doctrine concerning the remaining of bread and wine, partly impugn it, concerning the presence of Christes body? Did not the said Zuinglius with Oecolampadius his fellow refuse to be reconciled with Luther, Melanchthon, justus jonas, Bucer, and Osiander, at a meeting which the landgrave of Hesse procured for them at Marpurg in the year of our Lord 1529? Here then stand your two captain gospelers at defiance in the chief point of that great sacrament, which Christ did institute. In the year of our Lord. 1524. The Anabaptistes began to publish their wicked belief, that it was not lawful to baptize infantes. And from whence drew they that heresy, 
Hosius contra Brent. lib. 1.  but partly out of martin Luthers books, partly out of his example and doings? For when Luther thinking children to haue actual faith, had said it were better to omit their baptism, then to baptize them without faith of their own, seing it appeared absurd unto others, that infantes could haue actual faith of their own, they thought best to follow Luthers counsel, and clearly to let pass their baptism. unto which opinion when they had joined stubborness, and according as they saw Luther do in other points, had brought scripture of their own interpretation for the maintenance thereof: it became a bastard child of Luthers, whether he would or no, as grounded vpon an error of his, and fostered up by his evil demeanour and example. In so much that Memno 
Memno.  the Phrisian feared not to say of that heresy: I know assuredly that with this my doctrine( which is the word of God) I shall judge in the day of right iudgement not only the lords and princes, not only the world, but also the very angels. Thus haue ye the monsters of Anabaptistes and Memnonians wholly derived from the spirit of Luther. Who notwithstanding in the other opinion of our lords supper do agree with the zwinglians rather then with the Lutherans.  
Well Zuenkfeldius marking how this gear went forward, 
Zuenckfeldius, and his heresy.  and that as well the Lutherans as the zwinglians and the Anabaptistes brought every one the word of God for their part, although he conformed himself in the matter of our lords supper to each side, saying with the Lutherans that the true body was present, and with the zwinglians that it was not present in substance of mans flesh( for that he thought the body of Christ after his ascension to be turned into God) yet he went as shrewd scholars do, beyond them both, saying that who so will haue the truth, must gete it not by reading the scriptures, but by the inspiration and secret teaching of God from heaven, or by visions and dreams. But as Zuenkfeldius could not haue gone beyond you, if he had not first overtaken you, so by helping him so far forward as yourselves were, ye did vnwares help him to that mark, whereunto himself ran.  
And as for Libertines, 
Libertines.  what other substance hath your gospel besides carnal liberty and licentious living? 
The doctrine of the Libertines gospel.  To break the vow of chastity solemnly made to God, by whose grace and your endeavour it might well haue ben kept, and to break it for wantonness and to satisfy lust: is not that proper to Libertines? To give over fasting, watching in prayer, and confession of sins which should be made to a priest, by whom only( except in case of necessity) God promiseth forgiveness: to bid men to look for no aid by working, but to let faith alone,( which if it be true can not as ye say be idle) to make it lawful for yourselves bearing the name of superintendentes against the express word of S. Paul, to haue many wives one after an other, to quit yourselves from obedience to what so ever canon or rule any council( were it never so general) hath set forth, to regard no tradition, though it came from the Apostles, briefly to teach that all kind of outward godliness is superstitious and pharisaical, and that every man must without staggaring or doubting believe that himself shalbe saved if he haue faith, do he what him list, 
The receivers of the new pleasant gospel.  is this no point of liberty? What made so many malapert prentices, pleasant courtiers, discoursing parliament machiauellistes, and all other what so ever flesh-wormes, merchants, idle artificers to embrace your gospel, rather then the graver and deuouter sort of men which be weaned from the pleasure of this life: but that it was plausible to the world and pleasant to the flesh, from which that kind of men are most hardly drawn? And yet forsooth do not ye foster up libertines? Who is cause of the horses running out, but he that leaveth the stable door open? Who spilleth the liquour, but he that looseth the hoops of the vessel, or draweth out the tap? All christendom was safe and quiet in one house, 
whereof came th s ouerslow of m●schief.  before ye began to open the door, saying that men were not bound to obey the bishop of Rome. After which bonde once dissolved, all the mischief came forth, which now we see flow abroad over all. As the devill is the cause of all sin, not that he only doth it, but because he procureth the first sin, whereby all other haue multiplied: so without all controversy Luther was the cause of all the heresies of our age, who first procured that men should aclowledge no one head and judge, 
Lib. 1. epi. 3. ad cernelium.  whom as S. Cyprian saith, they might obey as the vicar of Christ. Therefore even the Trinitarians and Arians that be in our time be fostered up by you, 
Trinitarians, be heretics holding false doctrine against the most blessed trinity.  who else would not once haue shewed their head in any part of christendom. For if they had, forthwith the bishop of Rome would haue cut them of from the body of the church by just excommunication, and the catholic princes would not haue suffered them to live in their dominions. But now that ye haue torn the whole cote of Christ, and brought great multitudes to your damnable side, both the catholic king and the most Christian king, and other gouernours of states, lest dangerous tumults and uproars of their seduced people should be raised, haue much slaked the accustomend severity of executing their ancient lawe vpon all sorts of heretics.  
Who can reckon the sects that be in Germany, being sixtin or more professed in some one town? Bemeland 
Bemeland.  is almost as full of heresies as of houses. Silesia 
Silesia.  is as bad, and Morauia 
Morauia.  a country there adjoining is never a whit better. And yet do not these sects bud, where your gospel is freely and openly preached? What impudency of yours is this, to make these monsters to be brought forth among the catholics, where they are with great diligence sought for and punished so far as policy strecheth, not without cause mistrusting rebellion, which of the seed of your doctrine every where is the harvest? For how can it be otherwise where ye tell the common people, that they must red the word of God and judge of it themselves, and follow it not as men haue taught, but as the living God himself teacheth them by his spirit, and by their own conference of one place with an other? As though they were not men to whom so ye speak, and might not conferre places in a wrong sense, and both be deceived and deceive others. We understand the scriptures only as the church and holy fathers teach us, and following them we be not deceived. So that when ye say these sects spring not up with you, but rather amongst your aduersaries: by like ye reckon the germans for your aduersaries. For undoubtedly there they swarm not now springing up, but of long time grown, there they haue had to outward show seemly blossoms, but haue brought forth many a foul fruit. And think ye not that our country of England shall long be free. It is but young dayes as yet. Ye are to much occupied with the papists,( as ye call us and now your vileness maketh that name to us glorious) whom if ye could once wholly be rid of,( as by Gods grace ye shall never be) then should the world see, what would rise up among yourselves. Infantes do not begete new children, but men of convenient age. Ye were never so glad to cast away Luthers real flesh, and the bare figure of Zuinglius, as the next age willbe ready( if God dispose not otherwise) to cast out and refel your pipe and conduct, by which your master John calvin saith, men eat Christ from heaven.  
Compare not your gospel with Christes, because as at the spreading abroad of it many heresies rose together up with it, so many likewise rise at the vpspring of yours. For first yours can not be true, because as yourselves confess, now it is in the first spring, 
division among the gospelers causeth them daily to lose their credite.  whereas Christes gospel is within little of sixtin hundred yeres old. again Christes gospel had increase by occasion of heresies, yours is in the wane, and yearly diminisheth through cause of the great division that is amongst you, were it not for the which more had gone with you, and your part had ben of more number. But God who maintaineth his church, will not suffer you to prosper. 
The Trinitarians of Pole were first calvinists as the Defenders be.  For when it is once certainly known, that the Trinitarians( which are now in Gracouia the chief city of Pole) were altogether calvinists, as ye are, and in public writings confess, that out of his doctrine yea himself gainsaying them, they haue taken those principles by which they deny utterly the blessed name of the trinity, as that which is not to be found in all holy scriptures: when( I say) the world shall red the epistles and tables of Gregorius the founder and first teacher of that doctrine in Cracouia, 
Gregorius author of the sect of the Trinitarians.  and perceive of what stock that branch springeth,( to wit of John calvin) they will undoubtedly abhor and detest your school, and your damnable lessons, the end whereof is to prepare the people of Christ, as meet vessels to receive Antichrist, whose time by likelihood draweth nere, if the kalends be not entred already. leave the vain brag of a new sprung gospel. The old is the best. leave comparing yourselves with Christ, he hath once spread his gospel, and it is rooted in the hartes of men. If any gospel remain vnspred, it is the seed of Antichrist, whose way ye prepare, although all of you be not ivy of the wicked mystery, that is now in working. By calling to God for grace ye may learn whereto all this tendeth, and so by repentance to return to the catholic church of Christ.  
Where they say that we haue fallen into sundry sects, 
apology  and would be called some of us Lutherans, some of us zwinglians, and can not yet well agree among ourselves touching the whole substance of doctrine, 
a  what would these men haue said, if they had ben in the first times of the Apostles and holy fathers, when one said: I hold of Paul, an other, I hold of Cephas, an other, I hold of Apollo? 
b  when Paul did so sharply rebuk Peter? when vpon a falling out 
c  Barnabas departed from Paul? when as 
d  Origen mentioneth, the Christians were divided into so many factions, as that they kept no more but the name of Christians in common among them, being in no maner of thing elles like to Christians, when as 
e  Socrates saith, for their dissensions and sundry sects they were laughed and jested at openly of the people in the common gameplayes, when as 
f  Constantine the Emperour affirmeth: there were such a number of variaunces and braulinges in the church, that it might justly seem a misery far passing all the former miseries? when also 
g  Theophilus, Epiphanius, Chrysostome, Augustine, Rufine, jerome, being all Christians, being all Fathers, being all catholics, did strive one against an other, with most bitter and remediless contentions without end? when as saith 
h.  nazianzen, the partes of one body were consumed and wasted one of an other? when the East part was diuiuided from the West, onely for 
i.  leavened bread, and only for keeping of Easter day, which were in did no great matters to be strived for? And when in all Councells new 
k.  creeds and new decrees continually were devised?   

THE THIRD CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  Here our maisters of the apology after that they haue made a full declaration of their gospel, and haue boldly but untruly denied that any of the manifold heresies which the world is now infected withall, sprung of them, or grew and took increase among them( I mean the head of their sect and them of germany): at length come to that which is so objected unto them, as they can not deny, which is, their division into sundry sects. That they be divided within themselves, it is a matter so clear, as by any devise or craft they can not shift it from them. Who desireth to be fully instructed thereof, may he red the apology of fredrick Staphylus. Now fain would they answer the matter honestly, if they wist how. And an answer must be devised, else their whole gospel is disproved, defaced, and quiter thrown down. 
Where is division, there is not the sp●rite of truth which is the spirit of unity.  For where is division, there is not charity, where charity is banished, there the spirit of God dwelleth not. So it must needs follow, that if they agree not within themselves, their doctrine is not of God the author of peace, but of the devill author of dissension. Well in this case what haue they to say? Whereas they can not deny it, they labour to make it seem a matter of small importance. 
1.  First by making the blame common as well to the Apostles, holy fathers, and christen men of old time, as to themselves. 
2.  secondly by imputing the same to the catholics. 
3.  Thirdly by pretending the question they disagree in, to be neither weighty nor great. 
4.  Well, let us see how this soap scowreth out of their cote this fowle spot.  
Ye demand of us, what we would haue said, 
a  if we had lived in S. Paules time, who complaineth of certain among the Corinthians that said, I hold of Paul, I hold of Apollo, 
1. Cor. 1.  I hold of Cephas. We answer you. What we would the haue said, we know not. What we should haue said, we know right well. We should haue blamed them, as the Apostle Paul did, for that they divided themselves into sects, and were parcially addicted to men, and not to Christ only, and craked of them, whom each one had bē baptized of. And you for doing the same, yea much worse, likewise we blame, as also S. Paul would, and condemn you for it, if he were now living. Their small division is no excuse of your great dissension.  

b  Of Paules rebuking of Peter, ye can not gather an invincible argument of discord between them, 
Gal. 2. Though Paul rebuked Peter, yet was there no discord between them.  which ye should haue done, before ye had set them at variance, contrary to the mind of S. Cyprian in epist. ad Quirinum, and many other fathers. Neither haue ye more scripture or reason for the opinion of S. Augustine, then for that of jerome. How so ever it be, there was no breach of unity among those blessed Apostles, but either of them sought the salvation of their flocks, the one by winking at somewhat and yielding for a time, the other by plain requiring of truth and going upright. Peter of the weak Iewes, that would haue forsaken the gospel altogether, rather then to give over the ceremonies of the lawe wholly, Paul of those, whom by his preaching he had brought to a further perfection, and persuaded, now that Christ the end of the lawe was come, to depend no longer of the outward observations of the lawe. So by Gods providence the everlasting health of both sorts was procured by different demeanour of the Apostles, their wills to one good end most perfitly agreeing. And thus should we haue said, if at that time we had lived.  

c  Neither was Barnabas and Paules dissension of enmity and hatred, 
Act. 15. The strife of Paul and Barnabas was to good purpose, not of enmity. Num. 12. 4. Reg. 1. Exod. 32.  but either of them stood fast in that he thought best. And that was most profitable both for John name mark( for whom their strife was) and for the churches. For Paules severity made him the more wary, and the gentleness of Barnabas caused that he was not all together destitute. We find in the prophetes diverse conditions, neither for all that reprehended. Moyses was meek and gentill, Elias hard and severe. The like we red of God and Moyses. the one besecheth, the other is angry. The departing then of Barnabas from Paul, was not for evil will, as it appeareth by the great praises that afterward Paul in his Epistles gave Barnabas. What serveth this to your purpose?  

d  The complaint of Origen pertaineth either to the diversity of heresies, 
The complaint of Origen whereto it pertaineth.  which in his time reigned, or of the ungodly studies and trades of life, the followers whereof kept rather the name, then virtue of Christen men. Which we blame no less then either he or you. Neither can ye defend your evil by an other evil. 
Strifes and debates stirred by Arians. Histor. tripart. lib. 1. Cap. 17. A story falsely reported by the Defenders.   

e  The greatest strifes and debates that Socrates speaketh of were raised by the Arians, who were occasion of unquietness among Christen people at Nicomedia, as your fellows of late haue ben in france. And the Christians were not therefore laughed and jested at openly as ye say, but the matter grew to such a stir, as christianity thereby sustained prejudice, for so saith Socrates.  

f  The good and noble Emperour Constantine grievously complained of the braulinges and quarrels that in his time the church was troubled and cumbered withall, partly by the sedition and faction of certain bishops, but specially of the wicked Arians. If we had lived then, we should haue said of them, as we say now of you, and generally of all heretics: that they set the church beside peace and rest, and christen people beside the salvation of their souls, yet the good be good, though the evil play their part never so much. To what purpose ye recite all these things, we know not, unless it be to show, that ye do no otherwise then heretics haue done in times past.  
For the dissension, 
The evil strifes of the Arians can not be alleged in defence of the gospelers strifes  of the world that was raised by the Arians, can no more be alleged for defence of your debate and strife within yourselves, then one thief can allege for defence of his theft, the robbery of an other thief.  

g.  Now ye come to rip up old sores, and bring forth to light certain works of darkness, long age butted and forgotten, done by those fathers, whom all good men nevertheless judge well of, and trouble their blessed memories, whose spirites be at rest in the hand of God not touched with any torment of wicked malice. 
Sapient. 3.  The trouble which witty Theophilus and simplo Epiphanius brought the holy and learned bishop John Chrysostom unto, was not for heresy, 
Tripart. lib. 10. at large.  how so ever he was charged with favouring Origens works, 
Tripart. li. 10. ca. 13.  but for other worldly matters, and specially for that he refused to come to a pretensed synod holden by his aduersaries in the suburbs of Chalcedon over against Constantinople, but appealed from the same to a general council. 
The strife between Hierom and Augustine for a point of learning.  The contention between Hierom and Augustine was about a point of learning concerning Paules rebuking of Peter for bearing with the Iewes. Wherein as they both show great learning, so the one a little stomach, as a man, namely jerome, no enmity nor hatred at all. Neither was that ever called of any man a division, but such a learned exercise or strife, as Hesiod meant where he saith, {αβγδ}. That is to say, This maner a strife among men is a good strife. In deed concerning Rufine and jerome, their falling out can not so well be excused. 
Strife between jerome and Rufine.  It seemeth by that they wrote the one against the other, that sometimes they dipte their pens in gaull and choler. but what then? Shall ye now take advantage of that which afterward they misliked in themselves, and turn it to defence of the dissensions in religion that now be between the Lutherans and zwinglians? They agreed in the faith, variance fell between them for other causes. And the coals of their strife was the rather set on fire by evil tales and sinister reports carried to and fro by whisperers and evil tongued persons.  

h  nazianzen in sundry places, and also basil, and other holy fathers of that age, lament the state of christendom in their time, for that it was miserable vexed and troubled, and for a great part consumed by diverse sects of heretics, specially the Arians having the Emperour of their side. But neither nazianzen nor any other father of the church did ever allow any sects that dissented from the catholic church and disagreed within themselves( as for example the Arians and Sabellians) so as ye do allow both the Lutherans and Zwinglians. To what end ye call him to witness I marvell, unless it be thereby to declare, that heresies and sects were in his time as well as now, which we confess, and he condemned them, as the church condemneth you.  

i  Truth it is also that ye tell of the diversity of bread used at the altar. 
Small debates between the East and west churches.  The greeks of long time haue consecrated leavened bread, the latins vnleuened. Likewise the East church for the time of Easter varied from the West. But these were no heresies, neither for these things were the churches divided, as ye say, nor the one condemned the other. And touching Easter, until Pope Victor the blessed Martyr commanded it under pain of excommunication to be kept in all churches at one time according to the ancient custom of the roman church: the diversity of that observation was a thing indifferent. 
The strife betwixt the Lutherans and zwinglians is about a necessary point of belief.  But the diversity which is stoutly maintained between the Lutherans and Zwinglians, for the which they impute the horrible crime of heresy the one to the other, consisteth in a necessary point of our belief, and about a principle of truth uttered by Christes own mouth. Which both here for a bad defence ye seem to justify, both being false and contrary to our lords express word. If we would grant,( which in any wise we may not grant) that the one of these two sects maintaineth truth, their opinions being contradictory the ones to thothers, it must needs follow, that the other maintaineth untruth. Now where ye claim friar Luther, and friar Oecolampadius,( which nolesse then Zuinglius is one chief head of the sacramentary sect) to be your Apostles and founders of your church, and planters of your new gospel, 
The founders and Apostles of the new gospelling church.  teaching so contrary the one to the other: for good cause we say, that ye are fallen into sundry sects, and therefore is your manifest dissension to us a sufficient witness, that your doctrine is not of God. Whereof Bucer finding his mind troubled, sighingly said on a time to Peter Martyr in Oxford, O maledictam illam questionem sacramentariam. O that accursed question about the sacrament!  

k  Neither is it true that ye say, that in all councils new creeds and new decrees continually were devised. Of new decrees we accord with you, 
councils never made any creed  but that new creeds were continually devised, we deny. All creeds that ever were set forth in any general or provincial council allowed, 
Additions made to the creed by councils for plainer declaration of the truth, and for {pre}seruation against heresy. new creeds devised by heretics. Quatenus matter.  were but an exposition of the first, which we call the Apostles creed. Whereunto the church represented in councils, as heresies sprung, added somewhat for a plainer declaration of the truth, to be as a preservative of the faithful against heresies. new creeds haue ben devised only by heretics, who in the same haue framed to themselves an other maner of faith concerning Christ, the holy ghost, the virgin mary( as mother), the resurrection of flesh, and other great points, as the Arians, Eunomians, Nestorians, Origenistes, and other the like.  

apology  What would these men( trow ye) haue said in those days? which side would they specially then haue taken, and which would they then haue forsaken? which gospel would they haue believed? whom would they haue accounted for heretics, and whom for catholics? And yet what a stir and revel keep they at this time vpon two poor names onely Luther and Zwinglius, because these two men do not yet fully agree vpon some one point, therfore would they needs haue us think, that both of them were deceived, that neither of them had the gospel, and that neither of them taught the truth aright.   

THE fourth CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  After many things by these Defenders alleged for proof of dissension to haue ben among the Apostles, the faithful people in S. Paules time, the bishops and holy fathers of the primitive church, whereby they would persuade if they could, that their own division into sects and dissension is not a mark of false doctrine: at length as though they had won the field, and tried themselves proper men, triumphing over us as though we had nothing to say, with a great courage demand this question of us, which though it be but one in effect, yet with a kind of bravery they seem to divide into sundry branches, and thus they say. What would these men( they mean the papists) then trow ye haue said in those dayes? 1 Which side would they specially then haue taken, and 2 Which would they then haue forsaken? 3 Which gospel would they haue believed? 4 Whom would they haue accounted for heretics, and whom for catholics?  
Touching these four interrogatories, 
A fourfold answer to the four questions.  if we had then ben alive, being of the mind we be now of, we would haue requitted you with four answers of the holy and most learned father S. jerome, and would haue said, as in the like state of times in a learned epistle he said to the learned Pope Damasus touching the heresies, which he found in Syria at his first coming thither from Rome. First, Mihi cathedram Petri, 
Epistolarum tomo. 2.  & fidem Apostolico ore laudatam censui consulendam, ind nunc meae ainae postulans cibum, vnde olim Christi vestimenta suscepi. Which words taking vpon me the person of all faithful and catholic folkes, thus I englishe. In these controversies, I haue thought good for counsel( what I ought to believe) to repair to the chair of Peter, 
The first answer.  and to the faith of the roman church praised by Paul the Apostles own mouth. And from thence now require I the food of my soul, from whence I received the garments of Christ. To speak the same more shortly, and more plainly, in the catholic church I look to haue the food of my soul to everlasting life, in which I was first Christened.  
secondly we would with him haue said one speaking for all, directing our words( as he did) to those that be of the catholic faith, whom ye call papists. Vos estis lux mundi, vos sal terrae, vos aurea vasa& argentea, hic testacea vasa vel lignea, virgam ferream,& aeternum operiuntur incendium. 
The second answer.  Ye are the light of the world, ye are the salt of the earth, ye are golden and siluern vessels, here( among the gospelers) are the earthen and wooden vessels, which must abide the iron rod and flamme everlasting.  
Thirdly with him( one likewise bearing the person of all) we would haue said to pus the fourth that now sitteth in Peters chair, as he then said to Damasus. Ego nullum primum nisi Christum sequens, beatitudini tuae, id est Cathedrae Petri, communione consocior. supper illam petram aedificatam ecclesiam scio. Quicunque extra hanc domum agnum comederit prophanus est. Si quis in arca Noe non fuerit, 
The third answer.  peribit regnant dilu uio. Making none but Christ first of all whom to follow, I join in fellowship of communion with thy holynes, that is to say, with the see of Peter. Vpon that rock I know the church is builded. Who so ever eateth the lamb without the compass of this house, he is profane. If any remain without the ark of Noe, he shal be lost when the flood reigneth.  
Fourthly touching the authors of this new gospel, with the same jerome we say all under the person of one: Non novi Vitalem, Meletium respuo, ignoro Paulinum. Quicunque tecum non colligit, spargit, hoc est, qui Christi non est, Antichristi est. Vitalis I know not, Meletius I refuse, Paulinus I wote not what he is( these were head heretics in S. Hieromes time) who so ever gathereth not together with thee( holy Pastor) he scattereth abroad, that is to wit, who is not of Christes side, he is of Antichristes side. 
The fourth answer.  To transfer this to ourselves, the names changed, the case remaining like, for our answer to our new gospel prelates, we say. Luther we know not, Zuinglius, Oecolampadius, Bucer, Peter Martyr, Latimer, Ridely, Cramner, Hooper, we reject and refuse, calvin, Beza, Iuell, Pilkinton, grindal, horn, and their fellows, what they are we wote not. We see they are not gatherers with the supreme pastor of the catholic church, but scatterers. Therfore they hold not of Christ,( what so ever they say) but of Antichrist, our Lord keep his people from their deceit.  
This much ado we make vpon these two names of Luther and Zuinglius, and not only vpon them two, but also many more, not only because both they and their followers do not agree vpon some one necessary point of religion: but because in sundry and many points they maintain great and damnable heresies, and rent Christes whole and seamless cote, break the unity of the church, lose all wholesome order and discipline, give occasion of ungodly manners and wicked life, briefly because they bring all that believe and follow them, to everlasting damnation.  
And to thintent I seem not to slander them, 
Whose strifes be of greater importance those of the catholics, or those of the gospelers. Illyricus. In epist. Mat. Flac. Illyrici.  and that it may appear, whether the dissensions of the gospelers be of greater and weightier points, or the strifes of the catholics, which these Defenders in defence of their gospel object against us: among a number particularly recited by fredrick Staphylus, I will rehearse a few. That mathias flacius Illyricus is a gospeler and a doctor of your new church, ye will not deny I am sure. For so should ye do him great wrong. Doth not he deny, that {αβγδ} in the beginning of S. Iohns gospel is persona? I pray you how far differreth this from the old heresy of Arius and Paulus Samosatenus? I trow ye will confess this to be no little point, but a matter of right great weight.  
Who can deny but that the Osiandrines be children of your progenitors, and gospelers of the fresshest? 
An heresy of Osianders sect.  Do not they writ and teach that the image of God, which S. Paul calleth virum, is the word of God incarnate, yea Christ himself, the son of God and of Marye, and that every christen man is the same image, which is the son of God? And how Melanchthon writeth against him for it, ye be not ignorant I suppose. This is no small matter.  
Concerning original sin the zwinglians in Suitzerland understand the gospel one way, 
Dissension between the Lutherans and zwinglians is not onely in the matter of the sacrament.  the Lutherans in saxony an other way. For the Lutherans say naturam esse ream, that nature is guilty, and can not wholly be taken away in this life. The zwinglians on the other side say, that it is a certain natural sickness, which may be taken away radicitus, that is even from the roote. This controversy is about the ground of our faith.  

Strife between Illyricus and Melanchthon.  Illyricus and his fellowes of saxony saith, that the lawe is necessary neither before nor after justification. Melanchthon contrariwise that it is required before justification, to the end there be acknowledging of sin. Doth it not pertain to the very foundation of our faith to know what is the perfit use of Gods lawe?  

Strife between Osiandrines and Stancarians.  Who be greater gospelers then the Osiandrines and the Stancarians? The Osiandrines teach that Christ justifieth a man by his divine nature only. The Stancarians( who be deemed heretics for other opinions more then for this) by his humane nature only. 
Strife between james Smidelin and Nicola{us} Gallus on the-one side, and the gospelers of the sea towns in saxony on tother side. deniers of Hell. grave put for hell. Psal. 15. Act. 2.  Can any doctrines be more contrary the one to the other? And is not the same touching the chief part of our faith?  
james Smidelin preacher in Sueuia, and Nicolaus Gallus at Ratispone famous gospelers and great writers, teach, that Christ suffered also in hell, and felt the torment of that everlasting fire. The learned gospelers of the sea towns in saxony as famous as they, teach quiter contrary, that there is no hell at all, and that( forasmuch as every mannes grave is called in the hebrew by the same name as hell is) Christ descended in to the grave, and not in to hell. They translate the words of the psalm spoken in the person of Christ, non derelinques animam meam in inferno: in their vulgar tongue in this sense. Thou shalt not leave my soul in the grave, in steede of ( in hel). How many be of this opinion in England our Lord knoweth. Were there none, the english new testament printed in Geneua anno Domini. 1557. per Conradum Badium, 
Strife between the Lutherans and calvin about free-will. Illyricus disagreeth from Melanchthon and George Maior. Strife about works.  as I find it reported in a book of doctor Smith de externo Christi sacerdotio( for myself never saw it) should not be so common in England and Scotland, as I understand it is. The matter wherein these gospelers disagree, is not light.  
Touching free will, Melanchthon, Illyricus, and many other of germany maintain Luthers doctrine. calvin impugneth it against Melanchthon. Illyricus holdeth that a man is justified by faith only. Melanchthon and Georgius Maior, by faith principally, but by charity minus principaliter. Some of them deny works to be necessary to salvation, nay they affirm them to be hurtful in that behalf, 

Strife about the sacrament of penance. Strife about the number of the sacramentes. Some will haue two sacramentes.  
Three sacramentes precisely. four sacramentes. One sacrament. Strife about the Church, whether it be visible, or in visible. Melanchthon stryueth with Melanchthon.   and therefore do no good works at all. Georgius Maior is of the contrary opinion. Ye will not say I trow this is a small matter.  
Illyricus reckoneth up seven very gross errors concerning the sacrament of penance, of which penance some make two partes, some three. Touching the number of sacramentes, O Lord what discord is there amongst them? Illyricus at Gena and sundry other in saxony, admit two. so doth calvin at Geneua, and ye my maisters the bellwethers of the new English church. The divines of Lipsia will haue three, no mo, nor fewer. The followers of Melanchthon will needs haue four. Some there be that admit no mo but one, the rest they refuse. To missense the doctrine of our lords sacramentes is nolesse then heresy, to take them quiter away, what other is it then sacrilege? Some stoutly defend their opinion concerning the church, that it is invisible, as Illyricus Contra Menium, and Melanchthon once in his apology against the catholics. Now of late yeres having changed that opinion, in the last edition of his common places and other wheres, he affirmeth the church to be visible.  

Bucer double, and contrary to himself.  What can ye say for friar Bucer, how mutable was he in his teachinges and writings touching the sacrament of the altar? Was he not after that he ran out of his cloister and took a yokefellowe unto him for his spiritual comfort, first a lutheran, then a zwinglian, and again a Lutheran, and after his coming into England, neither Lutheran, nor zwinglian, nor yet good Christen man?  

Melanchthon most of all other mutable, in constant, and at variance with himself.  How mutable was Melanchthon and disagreeable within himself? Was he ever settled in any uniformity of doctrine, whiles he lived? In the matter of the blessed sacrament was he not many yeres( as a man may say) Luthers own white son? Departed he not at length from that opinion, and before he departed this life, became he not a Caluinist? Who knoweth not what he wrote to the palsgrave of rhine before his death?  

Luther past all in all reprovable conditions, and specially in the mutability of his doctrines.  What shall I say of Luther himself? To declare how oftentimes and in what great points he altered and changed his opinion, it would require a whole book. To show the variances of the zwinglians and the calvinists, would require an other. As for calvin himself, how he dissenteth from the church, from reason, from the rest whom we haue here name, and from himself: the noble valiant and learned knight monsieur de Villagagnon hath discovered very much, 
Caluines debate with others and with himself.  and so hath Antony du val an other French writer, yet more remaineth untouched. For credite hereof, that I be not thought to say more then I am able to avouch by good proofs and witness, I refer these Defenders to the writings of the Lutherans and zwinglians themselves, the catholics to the reading of fredrick Staphylus, who hath most exactly and truly set forth their great and manifold dissensions, proving every thing out of their own books.  
More such stuff as this is could I here utter a great deal to their further discredit, 
This business is not made for two poor names only, as it is clear.  but this much is enough for proof, that we haue good cause to say as we do, that these gospelers be fallen into diverse sects, and can not yet well agree among themselves touching the sum of their doctrine, and the highest points of christen religion. And therefore say no more sirs that we make a business with you for two poor names only of men not yet fully agreeing vpon some one point, but for many and sundry great heresies and dissensions by many and sundry of your side, that is to say by your sects brought forth, fostered and maintained. Now let us see, what ye haue to say against us, and what great dissensions ye can charge the catholics withall. Thus it followeth in your apology.  
But good God, what maner of fellows be these, 
apology  which blame us for disagreeing, and do all they themselves, ween you, agree well together? Is every one of them fully resolved what to follow? hath there ben no strifes, no debates amongst them at no time? Why then do the 
a  Scotistes and Thomistes about that they call meritum congrui,& meritum condigni, no better agree together? Why agree they no better among themselves concerning 
b  original sin in the blessed virgin. Concerning 
c  a solemn vow, and a single vow? why say the canonists that 
d  auricular confession is appointed by the positive lawe of man, and the schoolmen contrariwise, that it is appointed by the lawe of God? Why doth 
e.  Albertus pus dissente from Caietanus? Why doth Thomas dissente from Lombardus, Scotus from Thomas, Occanus from Scotus, Alliensis from Occanus? And why do the 
f  Nominals disagree from the Realles? And yet say I nothing of so many 
g.  diversities of friars and monks, howe some of them put a great holynes in eating of fish, and some in eating of herbs: some in wearing of shows, and some in wearing of Sandalles: some in going in a linen garment, and some in a wollen: some of them called white, some black: some being shaven broad, and some narrow: 
Stephanus Gard. in diabolica Sophistica. Richardus Smith,  some stalkinge abroad upon patens, some barefooted: some ●erte, and some vngert? They ought I wys to remember howe there be some of their own company which say, that the body of Christ is in his supper 
h  naturally: contrary other some of the self same company deny it to be so: again that there be other of them which say, the body of Christ in the holy communion is 
i  rent and torn with our teathe, and some again that deny the same. 
De consecra. Recant. bearing. Scholae,& glosae cvi mundus. Thomas Aquinas.  Some also of them there be, which writ that the body of Christ is 
k  quantum in Eucharistia, that is to say, hath his perfit quantity in the Sacrament: Some other again say nay. That there be others of them which say, Christ did 
l  consecrate with a certain divine power, some that he did the same with his blessing, some again that say he didde it with vtteringe five solemn chosen words, and some with rehearsing the same words afterward again. Some will haue it that when Christ did speak those five words, the material wheaten bread was pointed by this demonstrative 
m  pronoun, hoc: Some had rather haue that a certain vagum indiuiduum, 
Stephanus gardener. De conse. dist. Spe. Glosa. Magist. Sent.& Schola.  as they term yt, was ment thereby. again, others there bee that say, 
n  dogges and mice may truly and in very deed eat the body of christ: and others again there be that steadfastly deny it. There be others which say, that the very accidents of bread and wine may nurishe: others again there bee which say, how that the substance of the bread doth return again. What need I say more? Yt were over long and tedious to reckon up all things, so very uncertain and full of controversies is yet the whole form of these mens religion and doctrine, even amongst themselves, from whence it did first spring and begin. For hardly at any time do they well agree between themselves, except it be peradventure as in times past the 
o  pharisees and Saducees: or as Herod and desperate did accord against Christ.   

THE FIFTH CHAPTER.  

Confution. The dissensions with which the Defenders charge the catholic church.  What so ever ye bring for some show of diversity and dissension to be found among the catholics, it may be reduced to two heads. The one containeth a diversity in points of learning, the other in trades of life. Concerning matters of learning, thanked be our Lord, for that the very enemies of the catholic church, can not charge the catholics with dissension in any of the grounds and articles of our faith. As for small matters and questions disputable on both sides, they may therein dissent one learned man from an other without blame, the faith remaining inuiolated. There be certain things besides the principles and grounds of our faith( saith S. Augustine) 
adverse. justorum. lib. 1. cap. 2.  in which the most learned men and the best defenders of the catholic rule keeping the band of faith safe, sometimes agree not together. And one man of some one thing saith better and more truly then an other. Now if S. Augustine find disagreinges among the best learned and most catholic men, and blame them not for the same: we make small account our doctors for handling of some subtle points, by those men to be reprehended, of whom any good man would be loth to be commended.  
What if the learned scoolemen that follow 
a  Thomas, and some other that follow scot, whose name was John Duns, agree not about meritum congrui? for about meritum condigni, which is a point of more weight, they agree, as al other catholic doctors do. Which ye should haue known before ye had reprehended. If Duns and certain followers of his way, whom scornfully ye term Scotistes, haue in that point keeping the band of faith safe and whole, neither dividing themselves from the rest of the church, dissented from Thomas, and swerved a little toward the Pelagians deceived by humane philosophy, what can ye conclude thereof? Is therefore the catholic church divided, as yourselves be divided? Is thereby the foundation of our faith shaken? The catholic church seeth the truth nevertheless for that one small oversight of Duns. Would God your dissensions were no more in number, nor greater in weight.  
What if some haue said of our blessed 
b  lady the virgin mary, that she was conceived in original sin, some the contrary? The matter not being determined and published by the church, what evil was it learned men to pronounce diversely, some according to devotion which they bare to the mother of our saviour, some according to zeal, whereby they were moved to stand unto such a sense of the scripture, as they had conceived and thought to be the surest?  
As for 
c  solemn vow and simplo vow, what talk ye of, sith that ye haue most wickedly broken al vows, which they never did, whose disagreeing about vows ye would fain for lack of better matter object unto us?  
Touching 
d  Confession, neither the canonists, nor the scholastical divines, did ever condemn it and abrogate it, as ye haue done. For the maner of it, whether it ought to be secret or otherwise, therein they varied without note of schism or heresy. What haue ye won at our hands, if we granted you, that in certain chips and paringes of some quidities, 
e  Albert dissent from Galetan, Thomas from Lombardus, scot from Thomas, Occham from scot, Alliensis from Occham, the Nominals from the Reals, whereas they kept always the unity of the church, no party judging the other in such problems and doubtful questions.  
But good sir Defender, what meant you to name the 
f  Nominals and the Reals? understand you what they be? If a man should vpon the sudden demand of you that question, perhaps you would be to seeking of an answer. sir if you be an Oxford man, as I suppose you be, you may remember, if ever you learned your logic after that trade it was taught in when we resorted to the parvis there, what ado was made in daily disputations for exercise of young wits, about genus and species, and the rest of the vniuersals: whether they were ter mini primae, or secundae intentionis, whether they were entia relia, or rationis. Which is a matter pertaining to logic, not to divinity. Now some scoolemen be of the opinion, that the five vniuersals be termini or nomina secundae intentionis. And they be called thereof Nominals. Some hold opinion they are entia realia, and thereof they be name Reals. And they that thus varied about the chips of logic, in points of divinity agreed together, and conformed themselves to the teaching of the catholic church. What maketh this for your purpose? Would God the points ye dissent in from the whole church of Christ and among yourselves, were of no greater importance. It had ben your part to show dissension among the catholic doctors in the grounds of our faith, and then had ye said somewhat to the purpose. If any such dissension by you could ever haue ben found, we should haue heard of it longer this, and all your pulpits should haue rung of it. Now the rehearsal of these trifles doth justify the catholic church the more, and bringeth your own part into suspicion. For how can it be otherwise, when men shall lay all affection aside, and judge uprightly of us both?  
After this ye fetch a flourish of rhetoric, 
mark what division and dissension the Defenders can finde in them of the catholic church.  where your divinity faileth. And having said all and the worst ye could, ye say, that yet Ye say nothing of so many 
g  diversities of friers and monks, how some of them put a great holynes in eating of fish, and some in eating of herbs, some in wearinge of shoes,& cae. I am loth to lose time in rehearsing your filly follies, and very vain, yet wicked toys. Which as they be not very fit for any hicke scorner( no though he haue his diserdes cote on and his babble in his hand), so do they very much discommend your persons.  
Touching those holy religious men, though it stand with your profession to scoff and rail at them, yet how standeth it with your gospel to belie them? If any be evil, God amend them. To his correction we leave them. Here we speak of the good religious men, 
The catholic religious men put no holiness in outward observances.  and of their profession and state of life. In whose behalf we tell you, ye are to blame to belie them. For what discipline and order of life so ever they haue addicted themselves unto for better opportunity to serve God: truth is truth, they put not great holiness( as ye say) in eating of fish, nor of herbs: in shoes, nor in Sandals: in linen, nor in wollen garments: in white, nor in black: in broad, nor in narrow crownes: in going on patens, nor on the bare ground: in girding themselves, nor in being vngirded. They be not so ignorant as to put holiness in such outward things, though their obedience performed in the humble observation of these outward things according to their rule, 
To what end be those observances of the religious. Elias. 4. Reg. 1.  be an holy thing. These things they use for restraint of their will, and for discipline, according to the order and rule under which the better to serve God, they haue promised obediently and humbly to live. Neither put they more holynes in the things by you scoffed at, then Elias did in his mantell and lethern girdle, wherewith he girded his loins, 
John baptist. Matth. 3.  then John Baptist did in eating of locusts and wild honey, in wearing a garment of camelles hear, and in girding himself about the loins with a skin: Then many holy and learned fathers did in the old time, in that part of their hard diet and living, which the greeks call {αβγδ}, that is, eating of dry meats such as ingendre none or very little iuyse in the body, and sleeping on the ground without beds on mats, with which austerity of life and hardness S. basil that great and famous bishop, 
S. basil.  very much tamed and punished his body.  
If ye were so much of the spirit, as ye talk of the spirit, and live of the flesh, ye would not thus scoff at such holy trades and observances of life. For the better estimation and regard whereof and of such what so ever strait discipline and austerity of life, 
Great austerity and hardness of life used in the old time of holy men.  we require you to red, what Epiphanius hath written in the end of his third book cont. haer. And yourselves shal see that ye scoff, not at a new devise of papists, but at a thing of old time among holy and devout persons used, and of learned and blessed fathers much praised.  
But I pray you Sirs, who be ye? If we would follow your lightness, haue we not like matter of diversity in outward things, to twite you withall, but that your diversity is with breach of due order and lawe, and that of religious men is according to order and rule? If ye think diversity in things of their own nature indifferent, as meats, apparel, shaving, etc, worthy to be reprehended, and deduce from thence an argument of mutual dissension: 
diversity in things indifferent found among the ministers of our new clergy.  among your ministering clergy is not likewise diversity found? Do not some among you wear square caps, some round caps, some butten caps, some only hats? Do not some wear side gowns having large sleeves, with tippettes, which is not well liked of your sect, some of more perfection Turkey gowns, gaberdeines, frockes, or night gowns of the most lay fashion for avoiding of superstition? And among you superintendentes,( what shall I call you, for bishops be ye not I am sure) do not some wear rochettes, some of religion forebeare so to do, lest ye should over much resemble the catholics? Of other your diversities, as of your trim beards, your polde heads, your handsome briches, your flemish and english ruffs, and the like trim trammes, wherein your yokefellows would fain haue you to be like proper gentlemen, and so far unlike to the catholic clergy, as ye might be, lest they should be called priestes concubines: of all these diversities, I say nothing. This I am sure of, in that( I say not clerkly semelines but) protestant and evangelical fineness, as ye vary from the austerity and sad homelines of the old clergy, so ye vary much within yourselves. Would God there were no worse variety in you to be blamed, and yet this is not to be suffered?  
But in these outward things say ye, we put no holynes, as the papists do. 
The Defenders in outward observances put no holynes.  That the papists do not, we haue said, and that ye do not, we also grant. For we know not that thing bodily or ghostly, wherein ye put any holynes. Wherein might we say that ye put holynes, having none among you to put? For all true holynes is far removed from your profession. And fearing lest ye should seem superstitious, ye had rather in dede be impious. But whereas in your religious variety of the fashions ye put no holynes, yet by your leave in the same ye put the commendation of ministering handsomnes, and the peoples praise of your constancy, that is to say, of your stoutness, of your stourdines, of your upright and stiff-necked disobedience. 
Much ado about priestly apparel.  What ado was made in the late king Edwardes dayes to bring sir John Hooper that worthy prelate of yours to a Rochet? As for the square cap, side priestes gown and tippet, I trow, he would rather be brought to a stake, then to those dregs of popish superstition, and rags of the Romish Antichrist. Of other your gospelling companions of that time I speak not. Of very late dayes and even very now, what a stir keep ye, that ye be not compelled to wear that apparel, which is convenient for honester men then the refusers be? The commons made not more ado in king Edwardes time for enclosing of grounds, then ye do after the rate of your power and number, for the prohibition of your round caps and other your lay apparel thought unseemly for ministers. And be not your brethren diuyded in that matter into sects? 
division in thenglish clergy for the Popes rags, as they term it.  Do not they which would be loth to be removed from the livings which wrongfully they possess, account those other fools and far overseen, that stick so much at so small a matter? And do not they of the other side condemn them as cold and faint maintainers of the gospel? The thing is indifferent, and may be yielded unto, saith the one sect. They be the Popes rags, and may not be worn, saith thother sect. And therfore they will rather be justly put from that which justly they can not keep, then yield one iote. Neither her majesties commandment, nor their Metropolitans decree care they for. They had lever seem to the people, whom they use for their clawbackes, and to whose iudgement they stand or fall, stout champions of their own gospel, then meek followers of Christes gospel. Such mighty Samsons, such constant Laurences, your ioyly gospel breedeth. They lack but a multitude of companions that at their hysse would leappe out of their shops, and say, thus we will haue it, and who saith nay? Well to leave these follies, in which your fond objection hath caused me to dwell so long: for a conclusion and for thapprobation of the diversity of observations, that ye iest at in the religious persons, I refer you to S. Augustine, who of ceremonies and all such things pronounceth this notable sentence. What things be not against the faith, 
Ad Iann. epist. 119.  nor against good manners, but haue somewhat in them to stir men to a better life, where so ever we see them to be ordained, or know them already ordained: let us not only not disalowe them, but by praising and doing the like, let us follow them.  
As for the other diversities which ye grace vpon concerning the body of our Lord in the sacrament of the altar, though your vain objections be not worth the answering, yet to touch them in few and as it were by the way: 
What is meant by putting Christes body in the sacrament naturally.  They that say, the body of Christ is in the sacrament 
h.  naturally, mean that his very natural body is present, but not after a natural maner of presence. They which deny it, haue respect not to the truth of being, but to the maner of being, and mean it to be present, but not after such sort and maner, as natural conditions of a body would require. What diversity is this?  

Christes body torn with teeth, how is it vnderstanded? Berengarius recantation.  Some say the body of Christ in the communion is 
i  torn and crusshed with teeth, some deny it. Yea forsooth, and both mean right well. The hundred and thirten bishops assembled in council at Rome under Pope Nicolaus the second, prescribed such form of recantation to Berengarius the first author of the sacramentary heresy, openly there to pronounce, aclowledge, and with subscription to ratify, as he should confess the very true body of Christ, not only the sacrament thereof, sensibly and in verity to be handled with the hands of the priests, to be broken and crusshed with teeth of the faithful. By which words these fathers mind was to express a verity of real presence, a true eating of Christes body in dede, and to exclude the only spiritual eating so as the old fathers did eat Christ in their manna. Neither is this doctrine dissonant from the fathers, specially from Chrysostom, who hath the like words Homilia. 45. in unwelcome. Where he saith, that Christ for the great love he beareth toward us, permitteth himself not only to be sene of those that be desirours of him, but also tangi,& manducari,& dentes carni suae infigi, to be touched, and to be eaten, and teeth to be fastened on his flesh, and that all they be filled with their desire of him. This doctrine of that roman council, of Chrysostom, and of the whole church is so to be vnderstanded, that Christ in this blessed sacrament proponeth unto us his body not only figuratively or tropically, but so as we see and behold the very self same even sensibly, yet not in his own shape, but under the form and shape of bread, in which it is contained. Neither so as we do only behold it, but also touch it really and crussh it with our teeth, to wit, because under the outward forms, which are touched, broken, and with the mouth received, we take the very body of Christ, yet in itself vndistract and whole, and inconsumptible. Now where some haue said that Christes body is not so torn and crusshed with teeth, they mean it of the true substance of his body, as it is considered in itself without respect had of thoutward forms of bread and wine, under which it is. So that between these there is no diversity of opinion at all.  
Likewise they that writ, that the body of Christ, which is in the sacrament, is 
k  quantum, that is, hath quantity: they writ truly, 
How the body of Christ is in the sacrament. quantum, and how not quamtum.  for so hath the substance of his body which is in the sacrament of thaulter. They which deny this, deny it also truly in their sense, because though that body being a true body, hath quantity,( otherwise it were not a natural body) yet as it is in the sacrament, so the quantity dimensiue of it is there after his proper manner, so as there be the whole in the whole, and each part in each part: but by manner and mean of the substance, whose nature is to be whole in whole, and whole in every part. To speak plainly to the learned, the learned scolemen say, that Christes body though it be quantum in itself, 
Vile. Tho. in. 3. p. q. 76.  yet it is not in the sacrament per modum quanti. Or rather that the substance of Christes body is in the sacrament ex visacramenti, after which manner his quantity dimensiue is not there. But because the substance of that body is not really divided from his quantity dimensiue, and from his other accidents: therefore ex vi realis concomitantiae, such quantity of that body, is in this sacrament, as all other his accidents.  
Because both these and also your few other objections which ye make against the unity of the catholic church, be such as no wise man will make any account of, and I fear me the reader is wearied with this much already, and fain would I bestow the time better: how so ever our saviour Christ 
l  consecrated, with a certain divine power, or with his almighty blessing, or with utterance of words, 
Consecration  or with repeating the same words: what so ever the 
m  pronoun ( hoc) pointeth or signifieth in the words of consecration: what so ever your 
n  Dogges and Myse haue eaten, or yourselves haue trodden under your wicked feet: whether the accidents do nourrish, or substance return: What narrow points so ever the scoolemen after tossing of arguments too and fro, as their maner is, haue agreed or disagreed vpon: the matter is subtle and curious, 
Curious questions not defined by holy church in any council.  neither determined by definitive sentence of the church in any council. And therefore sith it containeth no article of our faith, let us not be offended whith the whetting and sharpening of their subtle wits in matters neither to the truth of Gods word prejudicial, nor to the understanding and iudgement of any man, hurtful. If the Thomistes and Scotistes and the other scoolemen be found some times to disagree, 
The disagreeing between Thomas and Scotes followers is about points mytaphysicall.  it is about points metaphysical rather then grounds of the faith. As for example, vtrum ens& vnum differant ratione tantum, an etiam reipsa. As for points of divinity, in the essentials they agree, in bye things, if they disagree, yet it is rather about the proofs of the conclusion, then the conclusion itself. If we say not truth, control us with a truth. And tell us what general council, or provincial synod, or what bishop of Rome the supreme judge under Christ in the church, hath ever condemned any of al those scholastical divines, which commonly ben esteemed for catholics. This if ye can not perform, as we know well ye can not, leave to excuse your condemned heresies, and your sundry great dissensions continuing among you, with false charging of the catholics with the mainteinaunce of the like diversities, strifes, debates, controversies in religion, and disagreinges. 
o  As for the agreeing of the pharisees and saducees, or of herod and Pilate, the commendation of it, we return over to you, as most worthy of it, for your wicked holding together against our Lord, and the church his most dere spouse.  
They were best therfore to go and set peace at home rather among their own selves. 
apology  Of a truth unity and concord doth best become Religion, yet is not unity the sure and certain mark whereby to know the Church of God. For there was the greatest consent that might bee amongst them that worshipped the Golden calf, and among them which with one voice jointly cried against our saviour Iesu christ, crucify him. neither because the Corinthians were vnquieted with private dissensions, or because paul did square with Peter, or Barnabas with paul: or because the Christians vpon the very beginning of the gospel were at mutual discord, touching some one matter, may we therefore think there was no church of God amongst them? And as for those personnes whom they vpon spite call Zwinglians and Lutherians, in very deed they of both sides be Christians, good friends and brethren. They vary not betwixt themselves vpon the principles and foundations of our religion, nor as touching God nor Christ nor the holy ghost, nor of the means to justification, nor yet everlasting life, but vpon one onely question, which is neither weighty nor great: neither mistrust we or make doubt at all, but they will shortly be agreed. And if there bee any of them which haue other opinion than is meet, we doubt not but or it bee long, they will put apart all affections and names of parties, and that God will reveal it unto them: so that by better considering and searching out of the matter, as once it cam to pass in the council of Calcedone, all causes and seeds of dissension shall bee thoroughly plucked up by the roote, and be butted and quiter forgotten for ever which God grant.   

THE SIXTH CHAPTER.  
These Defenders be like in conditions to such honest women, as commonly we call Scoldes. Whose property is, 
Confutation. The Defenders likened to Scoldes.  being warned of a fault, not to enter into account with themselves, how to redress that is amiss, but eftsoons to power out their accustomend most spiteful words against the party, that moved them to amendment, and most commonly requitte a friendly warning with bitter twiting of the same 'vice, they were warned of. even so ye good sirs finding no means how to clear yourselves( as now we haue proved) of heresies bred and fostered amongst you, of division into sundry sects, of dissension and disagreeing within yourselves in many principal points of faith, by the catholics seeking your amendment and conversion justly laid to your charge: ye do not only humbly and wisely not consider the thing that so much concerneth the everlasting state of your souls, but very proudly, wickedly, and fondely object to them again both certain monstrous heresies, as risen and kept amongst them, and also strifes, debates and dissensions in religion. But what truth and substance your scolding tale reporteth, by that I haue thereto answered, it may sone appear. Now after this, as though ye had shewed your clerkly prows, ye brag and boast, saying, according to your mans first translation, wherefore let them go hardelye, and let them rather make peace at home amongst their own company. 
No variance found in the catholic church.  We tell you, amongst us peace is made already. Touching all the articles of christen faith, and what so ever doubtful matter of any weight hath ben determined by the church, to that determination we agree, therein we rest. Neither can ye charge us with variance among ourselves about any such point. For we whom ye call papists, are members of the catholic church, and profess the catholic faith, that is to say, 
Threefold universality.  that faith, which hath the threefold universality, I spake of before, and is, and hath ben believed,( as Vincentius Lirinensis declareth) everywhere, evermore, and of all persons.  
Because unity pleaseth you not, as being that through lack whereof your new church is of al good men detested, and of the meanest very much suspected, ye say it is not a sure and a certain mark whereby to know the church of God. 

unity is one of the marks of the true church.  
unity in the holy ghost.   Yeas Maistres, among other notes and marks of the true church, unity is one. Not every unity, but unity in the holy ghost, which giveth life to that one body the church, whereof every faithful is a member, and Christ the head, and powring charity abroad in our hartes, so linketh all right believers together in the bonde of peace, as they all say one thing, think one thing, saver one thing. The unity that is the note and mark of the true church, whereof we speak, is that, 
What unity is that which is a mark of the true church. The Defenders unity.  for which the church is called one, and being gathered and knit together professeth unity of faith, of good will and mutual love together, and of sacramentes. The unity of them who worshipped the golden calf, and with one consent against our saviour cried, crucifige, was far distant from the unity which is a note of the church, and is the work of the holy ghost. Such is the unity of the devils, who conspire against Christ and all his with one consent. 
The Defenders and all other heretics by S. Augustine compared to Samsons foxes. In psal. 80.  Such unity is oftentimes in thieves, such unity is found in you and all your sects. For be ye never so diverse and at variance within yourselves, yet ye join together in wicked amity and unity against the church of Christ. And therefore S. Augustine compareth you, and all such as ye be, to Samsons foxes, that were sundered by the heads, and tied together by the tails.  
Neither say we that among them who vary in small points and things not pertaining to the grounds of faith, there is no church. 
1. Cor. 1.  For all that certain of the Corinthians in the primitive church were at square, 
Gal. 2.  how so ever Paul  told Peter that he thought good, though Barnabas and Paul agreed not about john mark, yet were they of Christes church, 
Act. 15.  what else? But where ye bring this for excuse of the Lutherans and the Zwinglians, and other sects sprung out of them, the cause is not like pardye. For say on what ye list, and lie so long as ye list, their dissensions can not be dessembled, 
The weighty matters wherein the catholics be at dissension among themselves by the Defenders iudgement.  much less can they be accorded. Neither strive they about meritum congrui, whether auricular confession be of positive or divine lawe, about eating of fish or herbs, going in shoes or sandalles, wearing linnē or wollen, white or black, shaving so, or so, &c. Which ye reckon for matters of the greatest weight that be in controversy among the catholics: but their deadly food and endless contention is about many great and weighty points, and principal grounds of Christian faith, and specially the body of Christ himself. Of which their disagreeing and division partly I haue spoken before, and partly in my answer to M. Iuelles challenge, 
Arti. 15.  and more here could I say, but I had rather refer the reader to fredrick Staphylus, who hath made a special treatise of the goodly concord that is among the founders of your church, and the Apostles of your gospel. 
In thesibus& hypotyposibus. fol. ult. Wherein the gospelers be at variance among themselves by a doctors opinion of their own. The Defenders make the Lutherans and zwinglians contention about the verity of the body of Christ in the sac. to be of alight and small matter. A lamentable complaint of a poor gospeler against his fellow gospelers. mark reader Zuingli{us} and Osiander might not be condemned, because they were trim men in the tongues. So it appeareth their divinity standeth most in tongues. If this be true, when shall we look for concord, which the Defenders promise? The Defenders convinced of fowle lying by their own doctors and scoolefelowes.  Yet lest they, whose fortune is not to see ought thereof written elsewhere, should mistrust my report, as all do espy your lying: the words of Nicolaus Gallus your own doctor of Luthers school, here I will rehearse. Non sunt leues inter nos con certationes de rebus leuibus, said de sublimibus doctrinae Christianae articulis, de lege,& evangelio, de iustificatione,& bonis operibus, de sacramentis. &c. The strifes( saith he) that be amongst us be not light, nor of light matters, but of the high articles of Christian doctrine, namely of the lawe, and of the gospel, of justification, and of good works, of the sacrramentes, &c. Here as ye see, he reckoneth up a great meany of the weightiest points of our religion, whereof they dissent among themselves.  
But I doubt what I may call weighty and great, seing these good fellows call the controversy which is betwixt the Lutherans and the Zwinglians concerning the body of our saviour Christ, neither weighty nor great. But as they make a foul lie therein, so do they also in saying, they vary not betwixt themselves, but vpon one only question. Of the dissension that is between the Lutherans and Zwinglians, thus pitifully complaineth Nicolaus Amsdorffius in his book entitled Publica confessio purae doctrinae, himself being an earnest Lutheran.  
The world goeth with us worse and worse daily. All things do prognosticate the utter ruin of the gospel, and that in place of the gospel, we shall haue nothing but more errors, and the same very notable,( then after a few words) now Brentius( saith he) and the Adiaphoristes( they be a special sect of the Lutherans) being at the communication or conference at worms, would not condemn Zuinglius and Osiander, because they were trim men in the tongues, and well sene in humanity. And as for us and our side, because we refused to agree unto that communication unless they were condemned, they dressed us vily with their scoffs and railinges, thrust us out of the communication, and compelled us to go away. &c. Item after a few.  
There be that say, they condemn Zuinglianisme, but the preface of Brentius to master james the minister of Goppingen his book, witnesseth far otherwise. For there they go about( a Gods name) to conciliat good father Luther and Zuinglius, and make them friends one with an other. Quod plane impossibile est. Quis enim unquam audivit contradictoria posse redigi in concordiam? Which is impossible, for who ever heard, that contradictions may be accorded?( But the maisters of the apology make no doubt at all, but they will shortly be aggreed.) Such childish and impossible things they stick not to set forth, who would be counted the teachers of the world, as though we were but blocks and asses. But as for the heresies and errors of Zuinglius and Osiander, with a quiet conscience we can not embrace. Neither can we subscribe and yield to their departing away, and new guegaw●s, which haue divided themselves from Luther. Thus far Amsdorffius, and much more there to the same purpose, which here I leave to blot the paper withall. To conclude, thus all men may plainly see, how the maisters of this defence be convinced of foul lying by their own doctors and scoolefelowes, beside the thing itself that giveth manifest evidence against them. But such stuff in their writings and threatenings is not geason. leaving others, I report me to M. Iuelles late sermon made at Paules cross on the sondaye before Ascension day last, in which( if uniform report made by sundry there present be true) he abused certain honourable, and many worshipful personages, and of common people a great multitude, with lies worthy rather to be chastised by laws, then to be confuted with words. 
Apoc. 22. M. Iuelles sermon at Paules cross 27. May. an. 1565.  But be it as it is written, qui in sordibus est, sordescat adhuc. To return where we left. Now they begin to answer an objection they imagine to be made to them, touching their heinous impiety and wickedness. Let us see for that also, whether they leave their wont of lying.  

apology.  But this is the most grievous and heavy case that they call us wicked and ungodly men, and say we haue thrown away all care of religion. Though this ought not to trouble us much, whiles they themselves that thus haue charged us, know full well how spiteful and false a saying it is: 
Eusebi. libro 4.  for justine the martyr is a witness how that all Christians were called {αβγδ}, that is godless, as soon as the gospel first began to bee published, and the name of christ to be openly declared. And when Polycarpus stood to be judged, the people stirred up the President to sleye and murder all them which professed the gospel, with these words, {αβγδ}, That is to say, rid out of the way these wicked and godless creatures. And this was not because it was true that the Christians were godless, but because they would not worship stones and stocks, which were then honoured as God. The whole world seeth plainly enough already, what we and ours haue endured at these mens hands for religion and our onely Goddes cause. They haue thrown us into prison, into water, into fire, and haue imbrued themselves in our blood, not because wee were either adulterers or robbers, or murtherers, but only for that we confessed the gospel of Iesu Christ, and put our confidence in the living God. And for that wee complained to justly and truly( lord thow knowest) that they did break the lawe of God for their own most vain traditions: And that our aduersaries were the very foes to the gospel, and enemies to Christes cross, who so witting and willingly did obstinately despise Gods commandments.   

THE SEVENTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  Lo, a grievous and a heavy case it is, that the world calleth you wicked and ungodly men. Iwis they be to blame for it, and so be they that call them theeues which come to be promoted to Tyborne. 
The gospelers had rather be wicked then be counted wicked.  For God knoweth little haue ye deserved so to be called. Your commonalty of germany that rose and took weapon against their lords, and did incredible outrages, after that Thomas Munzer Luthers scholar had preached unto them the liberty of your gospel, 

Thomas Munzer preacher of liberty to the houres of germany.  
The Huguenots of france their good life and holy works.   we must say because all of your side follow the gospel, they were not wicked and ungodly men. The Huguenotes of france, who haue murdered so many people of all states and degrees, robbed so many churches, ravished so many professed virgins and married matrons, burned and wasted so much of their own so fair a country, traiterousely killed their kings lieutenant and captain general, put their prince in danger of his state, shewed without all colour manifest contempt of God and man: because they did all this for the gospels sake according to the aduise and will of John calvin 
calvin  patriarch of Geneua that man of God, and by the leading of that holy captain Beza 
Beza.  your scoolefellowe of Geneua: we must say, all was well done, and that they were not wicked and ungodly men. 
The cardinal of S. Androwes in Scotland stain by the gospelers.  The killing of the cardinal of S. Androwe in Scotland, and sundry other practices there, the withdrawing of their obedience which they owe to their prince, taking government into their own hands, throwing down of churches, changing the whole state and order of religion by private authority, putting of lawful bishops and gouernours out from the authority of their churches, and setting of more lay men or apostates in their romes: these and the like practices must be praised, for all is done to promote the gospel, and therefore we must not say that the doers thereof are wicked and ungodly men. I say nothing of your captain wyatt 
Wyat.  and his band, of your worthy acts attempted vpon the conclusion of your fellow gospelers at the diet of Smalcald 
The diet of Smalcald.  in germany, of the coupling together of your friers and monks apostates with Nonnes under name of holy wedlock, 
Pryers monks and Nonnes coupled together in the new gospels holy wedlock.  specially of those that be the chief Apostles of your gospel, of many other things and acts to your great renome chronicled, I am content following your rhetoric, either to say nothing, or to say for your gospels sake, all is well, and the crow is white. And if ye will haue it so, let Luther be Peter, calvin Paul, and Zuinglius james: mary I doubt where Christ shall find amongst you a John, as whom he may recommend a virgin to the virgin his mother. And I think, neither any of you greatly desireth to be recommended unto her, nor will she receive any such as ye be, to be mother unto, 
John. 19.  as she was to John.  
But though we would be so bold as to call you wicked men, yet that ought not( say ye) very much to trouble you, forasmuch as we ourselves do know that it is false and slanderous. 
The Defenders piththy argument to prove them slanderers, who reprove their wicked deeds.  And how prove ye this? Forsooth with a substantial argument, if it be well considered. The Christians by witness of justine the martyr at the first publishing of the gospel, were called godless by the paynims, and when Policarp was arraigned in iudgement, the people cried to the president to destroy them: ergo in calling our new gospelers wicked men, we know that we slander you and say false. Forsooth if ye were such as they were, whom justine speaketh of, and such as the holy and blessed martyr Policarp was, then saying so of you, we know we should slander you. But who seeth not you to be of an other mould? And as ye be not like those blessed sainctes, so neither be we paynims and infidels. complaining of your punishments ye charge your iudges with cruel tyranny, because ye suffered only for that ye professed the gospel of Iesus Christ, and trusted in the living God: etc. Why said ye not further, for that ye builded churches, prayed, and fasted, and professed chastity?  
Wherefore when these men saw they could not rightly find fault with our doctrine, they would needs pick a quarrel, and inveigh and rail against our manners, surmisinge how that we do condemn all well doings, how wee set open the door to all licentiousness and lust, and led away the people from all love of virtue. And in very deed the life of all men, even of the devoutest and most Christian, both is& evermore hath been such, as one may always find some lack, even in the very best and purest conversation. And such is the inclination of all creatures unto evil, and the readiness of all men to suspect, that the things which neither haue been done, nor once ment to be done, yet may bee easily both heard and credited for true. And like as a small spot is soon spied in the neatest and whytest garment, even so the least stain of dishonesty is easily found out in the purest and sincerest life. Neither take we all them which haue at this day embraced the doctrine of the gospel to be Angels, and to live clearly without any mote or wrinkle: nor yet think we these men either so blind, that if any thing may be noted in us, they are not able to perceive the same even through the least creuie, nor so friendly that they will construe ought to the best: nor yet so honest of nature nor courteous, that they will look back vpon themselves, and wey our fashions by their own. Yf so be we list to search this matter from the bottom: we know in the very Apostls times there were Christians, through whom the name of the Lord was blasphemed and evil spoken of among the Gentiles. Constantius the emperor bewaileth, as it is written in Sosomenus, how that many waxed worse after they had fallen to the religion of christ. 
Cyprian de lapsis.  And Cyprian in a lamentable oration setteth out the corrupt manners in his time: The wholesome discipline, saith he, which the Apostles left unto us, hath idleness and long rest now utterly marred, every one studied to increase his liuelyhode, and clean forgettinge either what they had done before, whiles they were under the Apostles, or what they ought continually to do having received the faith: they earnestly laboured to make great their own wealth with an unsatiable desire of covetousness. There is no devout religion, saith he, in Priestes, no sound faith in ministers, no charity shewed in good works, no form of godliness in their conditions, men are become effeminate, and womens beauty is counterfeited. And before his daies, said Tertullian, O how wreatched be we which are called Christians at this time? For we live as Heathens, under the name of christ. And without reciting of many mo writers, Gregory nazianzen speaketh this of the pitiful state of his own time: We, saith he, are in hatred among the Heathen for our own vices sake, we are also become now a wonder not alone to Aungells and men, but even to all the ungodly. In this case was the church of God when the gospel first began to shine, and when the fury of tyrants was not as yet cooled, nor the sword taken of from the Christians necks. surely it is no new thing that men bee butte men, although they bee called by the name of Christians.  

Confutation.  To answer hereto particularly in few, whether any could justly accuse your doctrine or no, partly it appeareth by that is here said before: whether ye haue hindered the course of virtuous living, and opened the gates to licence and lust or no, our pens may stay, your deeds speak, the world seeth. 
What little somewhat is that the world misliketh in the gospelers.  That which followeth in your apology for a number of lines, would serve to your purpose, if ye were so near to the pureness of Angels, as your talk pretendeth you to be. Now in dede the better part of the world findeth not a little somewhat in you to be blamed, neither do good men complain of an inclination to evil in you, for they feel the same in themselves: neither espy they a little spot in your white garment, nor is it a little blot, blemish, wrinkle, or hole, they note in your lives, which ye seem only to aclowledge: but they abhor and utterly detest the whole wicked lump of all your new sects quit cut of from the church, and therefore void of the holy ghost, albeit they understand among the sects, which all be evil, some to be worse, then other.  

evil living of the Apostles time excuseth not the evil living of our time.  O, say ye, some lived evil in the Apostles time, and of such Constantius( what mean ye to allege an Arian?) the Emperour complained, Cyprian, Tertullian, gregory nazianzen and many other holy fathers, which ye name not, grievously lamented and bewailed the evil life of Christian people in their times. What then? What conclude ye of this? If we grant you this much, as we do grant, what win ye thereby? Vices were ever found in men, and ever shal be to the worlds end, and good men cease not thereof to complain. And therefore we go not about so diligently to excuse the frail members of Christes church, as ye do busily to accuse them. There is evil living among you, so there is among vs. In making comparison I abstain from partiality. 
The odds between the catholics and the gospelers evil life being found in both.  The odds is this between us both. For lack of grace ye are fallen into errors, schisms, and heresies, as it is proved. By grace we are stayed in the catholic faith of Christes church. Ye being cut from the church, be destitute of the benefits and remedies which Christ hath left to his church. We remaining in the church, may enjoy the sacramentes of the church, and by the sacrament of penance may rise from the danger of sin to the state of grace, and by other sacramentes be preserved and strengthened in the same. So can not ye do continuing in the false doctrine of your new gospel. 
answer to the Defenders allegations touching sinful life common to all times and degrees of man.  The fathers complaints whom ye allege, be to be referred to the common sins, not to heresies reigning in their times. So sound their words, if ye mark them. And therefore all is to be vnderstanded of Christen people, not of heretics, whom they repute not for members of the church, and therefore neither for Christen men.   
THE end OF THE THIRD PART.   

THE fourth PART.  

apology  but will these men I pray you think nothing at al of themselves, whiles they accuse us so maliciously? And whiles they haue leisure to behold so far of, and see both what is done in germany and in England? Haue they either forgotten, or can they not see what is done at Rome? Or be they our accusers, whose life is such, as no man is able to make mention thereof but with shane and vncomelines? Our purpose here is not to take in hand at this present to bring to light and open to the world those things which were meet rather to be hid and buried with the workers of them, It beseemeth neither our Religion, nor our modesty, nor our shamefastenes. But yet he which giveth commandment that he should be called the vicar of Christ and the head of the church, who also hearith that such things be don at Rome, who seeth them, who suffereth them( for we will go no further) he can easily consider with himself what maner of things they be. Let him on Gods name call to mind, let him remembre that they be of his own 
a  canonists, 
joan. de Magist. de temperantia.  which haue taught the people that fornication between single folk is not sin( as though they had fet that doctrine from Mitio in Terence) whose words be: It is no sin( believe me) for a young man to haunt harlots. Let him remember they be of his own which haue decreed, that a 
b  preiste ought not to be put out of his cure for fornication. 
3. 47. lata Extra. de bigamis Quia circa  Let him remember also how cardinal 
c  Campegius, Albertus Pighius and others many more of his own, haue taught that the priest which keepeth a Concubine, doth live more holily and chastelye, then he which hath a wife in matrimony. I trust he hath not yet forgotten, that there be many 
d  thousands of common harlots in Rome: and that himself doth gather yearly of the same harlots vpon a thirty thousand 
e  ducats by the way of an annual pension. neither can he forget how himself doth maintain openly brothels houses, 
The image of this woman Pope lying in travail, is yet to be sene in Rome.  and by a most filthy lucre doth filthelye and lowdlye serve his own lust. Were al things thē pure and holy in Rome, when 
f  Iohane a woman rather of parfeite age then of parfect life, was Pope there, and bare herself as the head of the church? And after that for two whole yeres in that holy sea, she had played the naughty pack, at last going in procession about the city, in the sight of all the Cardinals and bisops fell in travail openly in the streets?  

THE FIRST CHAPTER.  
NOW come the reverent fathers of our new clergy of England to one of the chiefest points, 
Confutation.  they purposed to treat of in their apology, which is the charging of the catholic Christians, as well the lay as the clerkes, with great and heinous crimes. But as hereby their own crimes be not discharged, and we presume not to challenge unto us the estimation of innocency: so we are right well content to hear of our faults, that truly, though never so bitterly may be objected. wherein if we use the buckler of truth, to break the blows of lying, being lawful by the lawe of nature every one to defend himself: we trust to seem to do no otherwise, then becometh. 
It is not reason the church of this age be burdened with the defaults of all times past.  And albeit we answer for others of sundry times past, yet we doubt not, but the equity of wise men is such, as it shall not be thought reasonable the catholic church of this age be burdened with what so ever hath by any fortune, or person, ben done amiss in all ages past. How so ever it be, though faults be found in us, as no marvell, we being men: we require our whole cause to seem no further to be justified or favoured, then truth shalbe found in these Defenders side.  
First who seeth not what a notorious lie they make in the preface and entry to the matter? say they not, 
The Defenders say they will not do that, which chiefly and almost only they do. And say, they say not that, which of purpose they say.  they take not vpon them at this time to bring to light and to the show of the world those doings, which ought rather together with the auctours of them to be butted? And that so to do, their religion, their shamefastness, their blushing doth not bear it? What is a lye, if this be not? Do they not in dede, that they deny in word? Yea, say they not that thing, which they affirm they say not? How may a true man deal with these fellows? And good Sirs, if the things ye tell be such, as ought rather to be butted together with the authors of them, why tell ye them? Why contrary to your own word and conscience bring ye them to light and to the show of the world? 
behold the religion, the shamefastness, the blushing of the Defenders.  O say ye, our religion, our shamefastness, our blushing doth not bear it. But sith ye do it, and yet say ye do it not, what truth haue ye? What religion? What shamefastness? What blushing? I can not compare you better then to a thief, who meeting an honest man by the high way, giveth him a great woonde in the head, bindeth him hand and foot, tombleth him into a ditch, taketh all that he hath from him, and then telleth him: sir, I meddle not with you, I touch you not, my conscience serveth me not to take ought from you. What figure of rhetoric call ye this? What figure so ever ye also here pretended to use, be it pseudologia, be it hypocrisis, or what else soever it be, the same is very gross. Make of it what ye can, a lie is a lie.  
But let us come to the very point, and see, what heinous matters they lay to the catholics charge, and first to the Popes. They be the Popes 
a  canonists( say they) that haue taught the people, 
Crimes laid to the Popes charge by the Defenders.  that simplo fornication is no sin. A grievous offence and worthy to be punished. And verily if any Pope ever knew that his learned men in the Canon lawe haue taught the people such heathenish and devilish doctrine, though no man in earth be his judge, yet he may be thought unworthy the rome of so great charge. But if the Pope never knew such doctrine preached by the canonists, and if at no time there haue ben any such: then is he clear, and ye are proved slanderers and false backebyters. We deny it utterly, how prove ye it? Mary Sir say ye, look in the margin of our apology, and there shall ye find one John de Magistris noted for an offender in that behalf. well, if it were so, he was but one man. Ye speak of canonists, which word signifieth a number. And how prove ye that he the said John de Magistris( for now I will spare you and will not say they) taught the people that simplo fornication was no sin? The note of your book is, de temperantia. What mean ye by that? Made he a book de temperantia, and commendeth he that singular virtue with defence of so great uncleanness? It can not seem likely. The matter being so heinous, and so contrary to scripture, and profession of christianity, it had ben your secretaries part to haue name the book, the place, and the chapter, for discharge of his credit. But this is not the first lye he hath made in writ, talk, and preaching. Haue an eye to him sirs, when he shall haue the penning of any matter of yours. For if ye haue not, ye may happen to hear of molies, then gladly ye would be charged with.  
Now we tell you, 
joannes de Magistris blamed by the Defenders for Martinus de Magistris.  that we can not find where ever johannes de Magistris wrote so impiously, as ye report. Is it not Martinus de Magistris, that ye mean? It is a great rashness, if ye haue not red it yourselves, to believe such pelting writers that be of your sects, as ye do, by whom ye seem to be most shamefully and most dangerously deceived. Well, perhaps ye say, it is a small matter to miss the right name of a man. In a light matter, it were an over sight. But in so weighty a case as this is, the crime imputed being so heinous, if ye charge one man therewith for an other: I can not see, what I may call it, nor how I may excuse it. But let us wink at you for this, and leaving the name, let us speak of things. What will be thought and said of you, if we show plainly, that ye haue forged a fowle lye, and a most false slander vpon Martinus de Magistris? For so will we call him, until ye prove it of johannes?  
This Martinus de Magistris was no Canonist, as ye say, 
A fowle slanderous lie made by the Defenders.  but a doctor of divinity, well learned for his time and order of study, as a scooleman. In a treatise that he made De temperantia& de luxuria, he disputeth after such maner as the scholastical doctors commonly use. Wherefore he that saith that he taught the people, fought by untruth how to make the matter more detestable. For disputing in schools, and teaching the people, be far asunder. Saith this doctor Martin after the guise of schools, Quaeritur vtrum simplex fornicatio sit peccatum mortal, that is to say, it is a question, whether simplo fornication be mortal sin. This defender knew what he did, when he left out the word mortal. For being disposed to lie, 
The manner of the school d●ctours.  he thought best, to lie for a vantage. Now this is to be vnderstanded, how the maner of the scholastical doctors is, first to propound a question. Next to argue, object, and reason against the truth of the question. Then to avouch and prove the truth. After that to soil the objections brought against the truth. Lastly to bring conclusions for confirmation of the truth. Then in prosecuting his question, arguitur quod non, I reason against it, saith he, and argue it is not so. And there after the school maner he maketh an argument against the truth. Which argument who so ever taketh for his purpose and alloweth it, admitteth that the doctor goeth against and disproveth. 
Martinus de Magistris cleared of the crime by the Defenders objected.  After this he cometh to prove the truth. And there it followeth. In oppositum, simplex fornicatio excludit &c. To the contrary( saith he). simplo fornication excludeth from the kingdom of God, ergo it is mortal sin. Then he saith further. It is to be noted that the opinion of Thomas is, that simplo fornication undoubtedly is mortal sin. Who so ever readeth further in Martinus, he shall find after he hath well disputed pro and con, as they term it in schools, that is to say for, and against the truth, that he putteth six conclusions, of which the fourth beginneth thus, ideo &c. Therefore simplo fornication is mortal sin, because it is forbidden by gods lawe, &c. And in the end of the sixth, he saith. Hereof the falsehood of their opinion is made evident, who say that simplo fornication is not mortal sin. Which opinion is condemned in the articles of thē of Paris, error. CLXXXVj. Then he saith further. Guido the Carmelite saith in a chapter contra errores Graecorum, that the error of the greeks, saying simplo fornication between a single man and a single woman not to be mortal sin, openly containeth heresy against the holy scripture, and that he proveth by four reasons. &c.  
By this and much more there expressed, it is sufficiently proved, that Martinus de Magistris in his scholastical disputations in the said treatise, saith not that simplo fornication is no sin, much less can it be reasonably, or with any colour of honesty said, that so he taught the people. And therefore it is falsely and slanderously imputed unto him.  
That gross error the Pope himself Clemens Quintus in a general council holden at Lions hath condemned. 
C. ad nostrum Clement. de haereticis error. 7.  Touching the question itself, if the devill go about to snare any person with doubt whether simplo fornication be mortal sin or no: 
Ephes. 5.  Let him remember what S. Paul writeth to the Ephesians. This know ye, that no fornicator or whoremonger, either unclean person, or couetouse person, which is an idolater, hath any inheretance in the kingdom of Christ, and of God. And to warn every one against the ungodly talk of some godless persons in defence of that and other vices, he saith moreover. Let no man deceive you with vain words. For through such things cometh the wrath of God vpon the Children of unbelief.  
After this fowle lie followeth an other. Let him remember( say these Defenders) that they be his men that haue decreed, 
lie vpon lie.  that a priest for fornication 
b  ought not to be removed from his cure. To this we may say, that although he be not deprived of his cure, yet he may be punished otherwise. But let us see, how they would prove that they say. By their note in their margin they sand us for proof to the canon lawe. 
False allegation.  3. quest. 7. lata. extra. de begamis. Quia circa. As touching the chapter lata, in the decrees we find none such. And in causa. 3. quest. 7. there is nothing to this purpose. The paragraph Quia circa. extra. is vnderstanded of them, who being in the state of bigamy, are not to be promoted to holy orders, and not of one who is already made priest, that he be not for fornication removed. 
The punishment of fornication in bishop, priest, and deacon by the Canon lawe. C Si quis epūs. dist. 81. Dist. 82. c. presbyter.  But to understand what was done to a priest that had committed fornication, by order of lawe, in case any bishop, or priest, or deacon after degree of deaconship taken, had ben convict of fornication or adultery. he was deposed, and cast out of the church, and enjoined to do penance among the laity. Which thing S. sylvester at length mercifully changed, enioining ten yeares penance after a prescript form, which to our new clergy would seem very hard and strait. Which penance if they refused to do, and had rather to continue in their sin: then no body might be so hardy as to hear their service. So they of their own accord for fornications sake forsaking their service, 
Dist. 81. c. Siqui sunt.  for their offence were compelled against their will also to forsake their benefice. And thus evermore they that preferred their pleasure before their service, in any wise were removed.  
Yea further the lawe of the church in this case so little beareth with the sinful life of Clerkes, that, if any bishop in his dioces had consented and born with the fornication of priestes, or deacons, or with the crime of incest for money or prayer, or had not by authority of his bishoply office, duly punished such faults committed: the same should be suspended from his office. And that hath force at this day, as of late in this our age it hath concerning this matter ben disputed, decreed, and determined, that it be not lawful for any man to bring in priestes that be notorious keepers of concubines to exhibit the sacramentes, nor to give or minister unto them putting themselves forth to celebrate, necessary ornaments. 
Iacobus Hochstrassen in absoluta determinatione sua de presbyteris publica fornicatione notatis.  For doing otherwise they should communicate with their sins, whose blessing is turned into curse, and prayer into sin, whiles by the frendshippes of the laity being made more negligent, they continue in vices, and brought to be as men quiter alienated from amendment, scantly think of the purpose to reform their life. And this much we haue shewed touching the removing of a priest not only from his bnfice, but also from his office for cause of fornication, wherein these men most falsely haue slandered the church, as now to any man it may appear.  
The third lie is, that cardinal 
c  Campegius, 
A very false slander.  Albertus Pighius, and certain others haue taught, that a priest liveth more holily and more chastened that keepeth a Concubine, then he that hath taken a wife in matrimony. Why do ye not tell us where they haue taught so? Will ye that we believe your bare word? How can we having taken you tardy in so many and so manifest lies? 
The gain of a common liar by Aristotel.  Aristotel once asked what a common liar gained by his lying, that( quoth he) when he telleth truth, no man will believe him. wisdom would sirs ye took good heed, that ye prove not such gayners. Now we require you to bring forth proof of that ye charge these learned men withall. We are sure ye can not. For we haue diligently read their works, specially where such argument is treated, and we find no such unreasonable doctrine by them avouched. Mary this we find namely in Pighius, which ye mean doubtless, and which bewrayeth your falsehood, that it is a less sin in a priest being overcome with humane frailty to fall into fornication, 
In what sense said Pighius to be a less sin a priest to fall into fornication th●n to marye.  then to marye. The words of Pighius be these. But put the case( saith he) they which haue vowed chastity, all do not that they may and ought to do to attain the grace of continency: and therfore they be not only tempted, but also overcome with temptation for the more part. What then? Shall it be a less evil for them to marye? For to say it is better, 
1. Tim. 5.  thou mayest not, which the Apostle imputeth to damnation, if they break their first faith. For these( I say) shall it be less evil, and less damnable to mary, then to be overcome with lusts? See thou who is worse servant, he that being weary with service, or perhaps using himself negligently and vnwarely falleth down under his burden, or he that casteth away the yoke altogether? Which is worse scholar, he that lerneth that is put to him, not all( which peradventure he could haue done had he not ouereaten and ouerslept himself) yet a part: or he that forsaketh the school utterly? Therefore we must resist temptation by such remedies as we haue spoken of. In which if at any time being remiss through infirmity we fall, this is a more tolerable sin, then if we shake of our yoke altogether, yea and bind ourselves with vow against vow made to God, and do not only not sustain temptation nor tarry for it, but rather prevent it. Neither say we thus, for that we allow fornication. But we compare the falling by infirmity, to the deliberate, yea and the continual incest, which these married vowebreakers live in, all shane quiter cast away. This far Albertus Pighius.  

Pighius shamelessly belied by the Defenders.  Where( as ye see) he speaketh never a word of keeping a concubine, much less teacheth he, that a priest which keepeth a concubine liveth more holily and more chastened, then he that hath taken a wife in matrimony. Of such as marye contrary to their vow, he demandeth whether they do a less evil, then others, that by negligence and infirmity fall sometimes, and marye not. For, that they do better( saith he) we can not say, for as much as S. Paul condemneth, who soever breaketh his former promise. That such persons do much worse, he proveth by certain similitudes, comparing the offenders by frailty to a negligent seruant that falleth under his burden, and to a scholar that for lack of taking heed doth not can al his lesson, but part: the other which do marye, to a seruant that breaketh away stubbornly from his master, and shaketh of the yoke of service altogether, and to a scholar that runneth away and quiter forsaketh the school. again he calleth the fall of infirmity tolerabilius peccatum, a more tolerabile sin then marriage, where vow maketh it utterly unlawful. Finally, 
In priestes that haue vowed chastity, fornication and marriage being both unlawful, to marye is the greater offence.  we say not this( saith he) for that we allow fornication, but that in comparison of the other, that is far more grievous. Thus it is easily sene, where, of two evils this learned man calleth the one a less evil then the other, and of two sins the one a more tolerable sin thē the other, that he would not either of them to be taken for good. Therefore where ye impute unto him that he maketh the keeping of a concubine to be a more holy and a more chast life in a priest, then taking of a wife in matrimony, it is a fowle lie and a false slander. Neither is there in that doctrine any filthiness at al, which Philip Melanchthon, whom here ye follow, chargeth him withall.  
Touching that point of doctrine itself, S. Paul confirmeth it, to whom the marriage of those that be bound to vow of continency, seemed so wicked and heinous a sin, 
1. Tim. 5.  that he pronounceth the will to mary to be damnable. Now your conjunctions with your yokefellows( we mean only so many of you as haue vowed chastity) are not in dede wedlockes, but incestuous aduoutries. And right so we find them name by Cyprian, Basil, Chrysostom, Ambrose, jerome, Photius, and other holy and learned fathers. Who so desireth to see the places, 
In confessione Polonica.  in Cardinal Hosius may he find them, where he treateth de Sacramento matrimonij. Hereof no father writeth more holily and more earnestly, then S. Basil in his book de vera virginitate. Where he saith the forsaking of virginity and wedlock contracted, to be a greater wickedness, 
Epist. 6. ad Theodorum monachum.  thē the fall of a virgin. I confess( saith Chrysostom) that matrimony is good, and that wedlock is honourable and an undefiled bed, and that God iudgeth fornicators and adulterers. But now is it not convenient for thee( he speaketh to Theodorus a monk) to keep the privileges of wedlock. For now that thou arte once joined in fellowship with angels, to leave that state, 
What it is for a monk to mary, after the iudgement of Chrysostom.  and to be lapped within the snares of a wife, it is running into the crime of adultery. Although often times thou callest this state matrimony, yet I affirm it to be so much worse then adultery, how much greater and better is an angel, then mortal men. Neither let any man persuade thee saying that our Lord commanded nothing of not talking a wife. And I grant myself not to be unwitting, that he hath forbidden adultery, not wedlock. But in thee it shall take the name of adultery, if thou haue a will at any time( which God forbid) to think of marriage. Where S. Augustine saith of women that fall from the better purpose of virginity, 
De bono viduitatis cap. 11. What iudgeth s. Augustine of marriage after vow of chastity. That Pighius said truly and reasonably.  and marrying, that such their falls and ruins from chastity vowed to God, although they may be called marriages, yet are worse then aduoutries: he confirmeth evidently the misliked saying of Pighius. For the case is like in men and women, wheresoever a vow hath ben made to God for keeping chastity. Now whereas your pretensed wedlock is adultery, and worse then adultery( as the fathers teach) and the fall by infirmity but fornication, that being a greater crime thē this: Pighius may seem to haue spoken reasonably and truly.  
But perhaps ye say, both are aduoutries, whether a vowed person mary, or committe fornication. Let it be so. 
Other causes why he that maryeth in this case, is to be thought to do worse, then the fornicator by infirmity. Ezech. 18.  Yet is not that sin more grievous which a man committeth of set and determined purpose, then that which he falleth into by humane frailty? And that evil which continueth, is it not much worse, then that which hath intermission? again he that falleth by infirmity of the flesh, oftentimes acknowledgeth his sin, and repenteth it, whereby he obtaineth mercy at God the sooner, who desireth not the death of a sinner, but rather that he should be converted and live. But they of your sort maisters, do not only not confess themselves therein to offend, or take thereof any remorse at all: but also defend it and glory in it, and colour that with the name of honourable wedlock, and of an undefiled bed, which the ancient and best learned fathers of Christes church haue called not only adultery, but also incest and sacrilege. 
spiritual sins be more heinous in Gods sight, thē fleshly sins. Homi. 36. in Iohannē.  If spiritual sins be in the sight of God more heinous then fleshly sins, though in the estimation of the world these be more infamous, and therefore Chrysostom writeth that an envious man hath less to say for himself, then a whoremonger, a thief, a murderer: Why should any man doubt to say, the marriages of these vowed persons to be of more blame for wickedness, then fornication? For here is only the 'vice of the flesh( right grievous and damnable we grant) but there beside the 'vice of the flesh, is thereto joined also that, which of all the vices of the spirit is most heinous, we mean, arrogancy, pride, and devilish stoutness of hart, which God abhorreth. For what can be a greater pride then this, for a man to take vpon him to understand more, then all holy and learned men sense Christes conversation in earth, which all with one consent haue thought it unlawful for priestes to mary, and that for incontinency there be other godly remedies to be had beside marriage? They therefore that affirm the marriage of priestes or other vowed persons, 
A greater heap of sins is laid together in a priestes or any vowed persons marriage, then in fornication committed through infirmity. provver. 16. Num. 16. 1. Tim. 5.  to be a more heinous and grievous sin then fornication committed by humane frailty, mean, that the same deserveth more blame, as( beside the equality of the filthy serving of fleshly lust on either side) being joined and linked with pride and arrogancy of hart, that God so much detesteth with contempt of the church, which Christ taketh as done against his own person, with heresy and schism, which God sheweth himself to be so much offended with in the example of Core, Dathan and Abyron, with open breach of a solemn vow where unto S. Paul imputeth damnation, with injury done to the holy sacrament of matrimony, the one party being such as may not lawfully marye, with a more offence of the weak the thing being openly professed, with open defence of sin, with continuance in evil, with impenitency. Which heap of grievous evils is not to be found in fornication that priestes fall into by common frailty. Now the world may judge how untruly and injuriously ye haue in this point slandered Campegius, Pighius, and other learned catholic men.  
Where ye say there be many 
d  thousands of common harlotes in Rome, 
Of the courtesanes of Rome.  we think there be many there in dede. Whether there be many thousands, we doubt. What number soever there is, they be to many. Our Lord give them grace and the maintainers of them to amend. If there be a great number of lewd woomen there, it is not much to be wondered at. If there were none, it were a great wonder, that city being always so much haunted of people of all Christen nations, and of many strangers inhabited, who being far from their kinnered and nearest friends, are the less stayed by shane and fear of rebuk from the 'vice of the body. But what shall we say? That evil reigneth not only in Rome, but also in other Cities, as also once among gods people the Iewes. For if such evil women had not ben, our Lord would not haue said, 
mat. 21.  Publicans and harlotes shal go before you in the kingdom of God. And in the gospel we read, that there was a synnefully woman in the city. 
luke. 7.  As there be evil women in Rome, so most true it is, 
Many good and virtuous women in Rome.  there be also many of the old goodness and chastity even at these dayes, and be so fervent in religion, as a man shall see nowhere else women resort to the sepulchers of martyrs with so great devotion and ferventness, as at Rome. 
In. 2. proaem. comet ad galat.  Which S. jerome also witnesseth to haue ben so in his time. This will they report( I am sure) who haue ben there, unless phantasy of contrary religion make them partial, or except otherwise they had no leisure at their being there to behold such examples of virtue, for having their minds and eyes occupied in beholding courtisanes and other vanities. Those courtisanes the church of Rome doth tolerate, not nourrish, trusting and looking that by sermons, exhortations, and other convenient means, they may be called back to repentance, and to the way of salvation. 
Monasteries builded in Rome for thamended women.  And that many be converted to the better way, it may sone be vnderstanded by the two Monasteries, in which women of old time lived chastened and honestly turned from their unclean living, who were called repentite as at this time in the vulgar tongue they are name le conuertite.  
That the Pope gathereth about a thirty thousand 
e  ducats yearly of these Courtisanes by way or an annual pension, which these Defenders affirm, it is utterly false. Cornelius Agrippa, who favoured not the see of Rome, and was embrued with heresies that sprung up in his time, was the first author of this slander. If they pay the common taxes which be levied to the Pope, who only hath civil dominion over that city: they pay not for that they may be suffered to continue that sinful trade of life, but so as the whole city payeth by polles, for that there they haue their abode and habitation. But to speak hereof more amply,( beseeching the discrete Reader to interpret that I say with equity, not as spoken in defence of 'vice, but of him that is beside reason and equity charged with maintenance of 'vice) for as much as it is not without slander much objected by them that fain would seem to haue a just cause why they be departed from the catholic church, thus we say.  

A true answer to the slander of the Defenders touching the courtisanes of Rome.  If Rome alone of all the Cities of christendom suffered and permitted harlots, if the Pope invited them thither with immunities and rewards, if he allowed them of all other to sit rent free, to pay no tribute, no forfaites, no ordinary burdens: it were a just thing to complain of, and to say that the chief bishop and headsheperd should not show any such evil example to other cities and common weals. But now we must consider the state of the city of Rome laying all envy and malice apart, as if we had to do with Venis, Millan, Florence, Naples, Paris, or any other like place where great resort is of diverse nations: and then shall we find Rome to be in no worse but rather in better case, 
Harlots not driven away for avoiding of a greater evil.  then any other city of like greatness and situation is. First it is common to all the great cities in those hote countries, not to banish from among them that filthy generation of harlots, not by way of suffering as a thing commendable in itself, but for the avoiding of a greater mischief. As God suffered the hard necked Iewes to 
mat. 5.  hate their enemies, and to pinch them with 
Deu. 23.  usuries. Likewise moses permitted a 
Deut. 24. Mat. 19.  libel of divorce, not that these things were honest, but to thintent by that means yet they might the rather love their brethren, and lend them money freely, and abstain from murdering their wives. even so men now adays so little apply their endeavour to restrain the proneness which is in their flesh to all riot and carnal concupiscence, that if some way were not( at the lest concerning outward and civil punishment winked at, whereby the fleshly men might obtain some part of their unruly desire: it were more then likely, that in this great decay of virtue in general, the furious rage of that 'vice would leave neither wedlock undefiled, nor virginity vnassaulted, nor a worse enterprise which nature abhorreth, unattempted. Would God experience had not taught many countries this to be to true an observation. 
Lib. 2. de ordine.  Then had not S. Augustine with his companions disputed in such sort as he did, of the necessary place, which filthy and unclean things haue in the government of the whole world. Who having shewed the hangman of his own part perchance delighting in murder, yet to the right administration of the common weal to be requisite and necessary, cometh strait to the case of harlots, whereof now we treat. His words are these. Quid sordidius &c. What can be said more unclean, more voided of comeliness, more full of turpitude, then harltos, bawds, and such other like pestilences? Take harlots from among men, ye shall disturb all things with lecherous lusts. Put the same in the stede of matrons, ye shall dishonest( all things) with spot and shane. Let therefore this kind of men which by their own manners is most impure of life, be most vile in condition by laws of order. Are there not in the bodies of living and sensible creatures certain members, which if a man behold alone, he can not abide to see, which notwithstanding the order of nature neither would to fail, because they are necessary, neither to stand highest, because they are unseemly? And yet those deform things by keeping their own place haue yielded a better place to better things. Hitherto S. Augustine. By whose iudgement harlots do serve the order of the whole, whiles some certain being by themselves placed in that vile service, in the mean time honest women live the more voided of temptation, and maintain not under the pretence of matrons the filthy life of open queens. Which for as much as it is so, I leave to the due consideration of wise men, whether harlots may be winked at for the eschewing of greater inconvenience, to haue their place with as little slander in the city of Rome, as in any other of the like condition and quality: And why the bishop of Rome is to be blamed for that they be in Rome, more then the French king, the king of spain, or any other Prince, for suffering them in their dominions.  
It remaineth we seek whether they haue also the lowest and vilest place in that city or no: 
How courtisanes be placed and esteemed in Rome.  lest perhaps although they be a necessary evil, yet being promoted above their degree, they make an evil show in the body where they rest. Their place may be considered two ways, in respect of the temporal, or of the ecclesiastical order or lawe. For temporal order thus they stand. 
Courtisanes dwelling places.  Not to haue free liberty of dwelling in the most haunted streets and palaises where them list, but only to be in such corners and bylanes and small outehouses, as are most fit shops for the vile merchandise of such occupiers. again they can not without a very great forfeit ride in coaches or chariots as matrons there do, but are constrained either to keep their homely homes, or to walk a foot in the streets. And then also by order they must be in such apparel, that, as Iewes by their read caps, so they by their short vailes( a note of dishonesty) be known to all, and be subject to all shrewdnes of the boys of the streets, who use commonly to mock and revile them.  
Concerning money matters, 
What favour they find in money matters.  they pay all kind of ways with the most, not so much to the prince( of whom they deserve no favour) as to the Lord of the houses wherein they dwell, and to all others at whose hands they receive things necessary. Who when they sell any their labours or wears to thē, make account to take so much the more of thē, by how much their good name cometh in hazard to be impaired for any though never so honest dealing with them. 
The malice of the defenders towards the Pope.  And here I can not but mislike with that malice which appeareth besides all reason to be in the makers of this apology. For whereas it is a virtue in the prince to set great burdens and payments vpon so filthy a profession, to the end he may fear women from it, and make them the sooner weary of it: they now( interpreting that he doth permit harlots for lukers sake) seem to find fault with the punishment of them, which if it were omitted, surely the prince were in very great fault. For as they are not driven away for the imperfection of naughty men, to save other partes of the city whole: so must they be kept with lest favour and in the vilest condition that may be, least their lewd order of life seem to be allowed. And yet these Defenders find fault not so much with the having, as with the punishing of them. As who should say, if ye must needs tolerate them for civil policy, yet let them haue immunities, privileges, and honour enough, that even honest women may be enticed with lucre to follow the like trade of life. In good soothe maisters ye are to young to control the city of Rome in her doings.  
But let us come to the ecclesiastical condition wherein these harlots do stand. 
The ecclesiastical condition wherein courtisanes stand at Rome.  First it is most certain, that who so ever comme to this deform and sinful order of life, be they men or women, it is not unknown to them, that they are in the state of mortal sin, whose reward is damnation. For the case is not in italy, as it is in germany, where few preachers cry out against the deadly sin of drunkenness, either because they can not, as the more part of them being thereof guilty themselves, or dare not, because the people seemeth incorrigible. It is far otherwise in italy. The preachers fear not to denounce to the keepers of concubines, to fornicators, bawds and harlots, what horrible case they stand in. verily nothing is there more common, then freely to warn them of the pains that belong to that kind of sin, as they may witness, 
Much preaching in Rome against sin.  who list daily in the Lent there and on holidays at other times, to hear the threatenings and lessons openly red in mo then a dozen churches at once against the kingdom of darkness and iniquity.  
Neither is that thought sufficient. The Pope also useth commonly both at the beginning of Lent and toward Easter, to denounce so much by proclamation set up in diuers places of the city, forbidding them to communicate or to haue the rights of holy church, except they will repent and amend and forsake that unhonest and wicked profession. Besides all this, if in that sinful state they continue to their end without repentance, it is not lawful for them to make any testament or last will for bestowing of their goods, but as condemned and infamous persons they must leave all to be confiscated and disposed at the Princes pleasure. 
Monasteries of the conuertites in Rome.  But on tother side, if they turn and repent, there are houses called the monasteries of the conuertites, and special provision and discipline for them, where they are taught how to bewail their vnchast life so synnefully past over. And if they who report the worst, would see or know all, or would be as glad to hear the clearing of the slander by them invented, as they are ready to utter it: I think they should find this question of not bannishing harlots for to avoid a farther mischief, to haue ben decided rather by the long experience of mans evil and sinful behaviour, then by any allowance for gains to be made thereof. It is not only Rome they haue to do with, it is all the rest of christendom, yea of all the world, more is the pity. Which mischief we may sooner bewail, then remedy. But now hereof enough. Let us procede.  
That ye tell of a woman name 
f  Joan, bearing the world in hand she was Pope of Rome, 
The vain fable of Pope joan the pretensed woman Pope confuted.  it is a fond and a vainefable. Were ye so wise as ye be malicious, ye would never haue brought your credite in hazard by reporting such vanity. This I account for one of your accustomend lies. By this men may judge, what little store of true things ye haue to object against vs. Who listeth to see a learned discourse written hereof, him may it please to red the annotations of Onuphrius Panuinius vpon Platina, 
In vita joannis. 8.  de vitis pontificum, printed in Venis. And he shall easily believe the whole matter to be fabulous. Many arguments there be, by which this vanity is confuted, of which here I will rehearse a few. First this fable is disproved by the account of the time. They that haue written of the popedom of Joan the woman, make it to haue endured two yeres five months and three dayes, beside the vacation of one month. And they put the same between the time of lo the fourth, and Benedictus the third. 
Anastasius bibliothecarius.  Now at that very time lived one Anastasius master of the roman churches library, who wrote the lines of the Popes unto Nicolaus the first, that succeeded Benedictus the third, and was present, as himself saith, at the creations of Sergius the third, lo the fourth, Benedictus the third, Nicolaus the first, Adrianus the second, and joannes the eight, which followed in order one after an other. This learned man Anastasius whose book is to be sene, doth not only make no mention at all of Joan the womans two yeres popedom, but also writeth, that after the death of lo the fourth, the roman see was vacant fiftin dayes only, and placeth after lo the fourth, not one John, but Benedict the third, as immediately chosen to that see after the said lo. Who listeth to see Anastasius his own words, in Onuphrius shall he find them. Thus is the fable wiped away of Pope Joan by testimony of the chief writer of that time. Onuphrius otherwise proveth by thaccompt of yeres and times, which is a sure way of proof, that none such nor any other besides these that be mentioned, could haue bē two yeres in that see. Neither is that woman Pope spoken of by those that after Anastasius wrote most diligently the histories, chronicles, and acts of times.  
After Anastasius they that in their writings recite an exact rue and order of Popes, as Ademarus and Annonius of Paris, Regino, Hermanus Schafnaburgensis, Otho Frisingensis, abbess urspergensis, lo bishop of Hostia, johannes of Cremona, and Godfridus Viterbiensis, of which some wrote three hundred, some four hundred yeres past, all these make no mention at all of this woman Pope Joan. again there be in bibliotheca Palatina, at Rome six or seven tables of the Popes names written in sundry books before the time of Innocentius the fourth. Among them all there is no Joan woman Pope. Neither in the five old books of Damasus the master of the library and of Pandulphus of Pisa, which treat of the Popes lives, is there any word written of Iohane the woman Pope. Mary in the margin of Pandulphus this fable is put in between lo the fourth and Benedict the third, written in a hand far different from the old characters of that ancient book, added by some man of later time. Which maketh the matter to be the more suspected, and taken for a fable.  
Furthermore lo the ninth who lived two hundred yeres after lo the fourth, 
The fable of Pope Joan proved to be vain by good reasons.  objecteth to the Emperour Michael and to the clergy of Constantinople, that sometime they had promoted eunuchs or gelded men to that Patriarkeship. He meant Nicetas and Ignatius. Which verily he would never haue objected, had he known, that a woman had once ben promoted to the see of Rome, and that in so few yeres before.  
An other reason against the opinion of this fable, may be this. There was none made Pope lawfully by the space of nine hundred yeres after Peter the Apostle or there about, until Formosus the Pope, but from his youth he was brought up in the church of Rome, and by the ecclesiastical degrees of orders came to priesthood or deaconship at the left, as the same is manifest to those that mark the order of their succession, to haue ben observed inviolably. Then how could an unknown woman, of an uncertain stock and country, without holy order, and without any testimony of former life, so unadvisedly be made Pope? Though men had at that time ben so far bewitched, and distracted of their five wits, as they could not haue known a woman from a man,( which no wise man I ween believeth): yet it is not to be thought that God himself, who appointed and ordained the seat of Peter, whereof he would the whole church to be directed, would depart so far from his merciful providence toward the church, as to suffer the same to be polluted by a woman, which is not of capacity for holy orders.  

One Martinus Polonus the first author of the fabulous popedom of Joan the woman.  The first author of this fable was one Martinus Polonus, a monk of the order of Cisterce. Who wrote long after the time that Pope Joan is feigned to haue lived in. Whose maner of writing if we consider, we shall find it vain, and nothing like to be true. It beginneth thus. johannes Anglicus natione, Maguntinus, sedit annos duos, mensem vnum& dies quatuor, &c. John an English man by nation, of Maguntia, sate( in the roman see) two yeres, one month, and four dayes, alias, five months and three dayes. What a foolish speech is this, an English man Maguntine or of Magutia? As a man would say, an English man born, and a Douch man of Maguntia? For Maguntia is a city not in England, but of high Douchland. Platina having espied that absurdity, helpeth it of his own head. It followeth in the fable, as the said martin telleth. This( as it is said) was a woman, and in the young age of a girl, she was brought to Athines by one that was her lover in a mans apparel, and there profited somuch in diverse sciences, as none was found to be compared with her. To Athenes was she brought, saith the fable. And why? 
Athenes destroyed.  For learning. Very well. whereas at that time neither any Athenes stood, neither was there any place of learning there any longer, but all the country of Attica became barbarous and utterly void of learning, as we understand by the writers of that time. The author reporteth, that from thence she came to Rome, and there professed learning openly, and had great doctors to her scholars, and for opinion of learning and good life, by one consent of all was made Pope. Which is sone confuted as false, for neither was any learning at those dayes openly professed at Rome, as the stories declare, nor could she come to that honour by consent of all, where none knew her before for such a person, as had passed through holy orders of the church. For then none were admitted to that see, but priestes or deacons that took orders and were brought up in the church of Rome, as is aforesaid.  
It followeth in the fable. Bring in the popedom she is begotten with child of her servant. And not knowing the time of her deliverance, as she went from S. Peters to lateran, strained with pains between Colosseo and S. Clementes church, she brought forth and died, and was( as they say) there butted. Here is to be marked how the deviser of this fable bewrayeth himself, and thinketh the matter hard to be believed. And therefore in the beginning saith, she was a woman ( vt asseritur) as folkes say, and now he saith, she was butted, vt dicitur, as it is said. So he doth not affirm it to be true, but referreth all to hearesaye. By which testimony lies commonly be soothed.  
But why was she not with child before her popedom? And being so nigh her time, why kept she not in, lest her great belly should bewray that she would to be secret? Was there none of her servants, none of so great a court, that had eyes to espy so evident a thing? But some will say, she kept herself in her secret places. Nay, sith that a little before her time of deliverance she stickt not to go from S. Peters to lateran, which is more then two english miles; it is not likely that she kept herself very secret before. I think it is hard to make a wise man believe, that all men there at that time became so void of sense, that none could discern a woman from a man, by visage, voice, gestures, and acts, yea a woman going nine months with child, sustaining so many, pangs and griefs, as women in that case be subject unto. I leave to aggravate the circumstances, that were likely to haue brought this matter to light. verily the fable is such, as might well become Martin the monk to devise it, or at the lest to tell it. For a man of gravity and wisdom would never haue  told it.  

martin of Pole a vain and fabulous writer.  The like fables and fond lies he stuffed an other book withall, which he wrote, entitled mirabilium urbis Romoe. The consideration of which should sone bring a wiseman from giving any credite to the fable of Pope Joan. Onuphrius rehearseth certain of them, if any man be desirous to know what they be. Now I doubt not all these things being weighed, but such as love the truth; will rather believe the story of the time that Pope Joan is feigned to haue lived in, reported by Anastasius a learned and a grave man who then lived at Rome, and was present at the creations of sundry Popes that were before and after the pretensed time of the false surmised Joan: then the vain hearsayes and foolish tales told by this simplo and vnlerned monk( otherwise a good man I judge) Martinus Polonus, who lived many yeres after lo the fourth,( to whom he maketh this Joan successor) in the time of Innocentius the fourth, under whom he was in office of a penitentiary at Rome. If any other be alleged as affirming that fable for a true story,( except Sigebertus 
Sigebertus.  in Chronicis, in whose books of the most ancient and true copies the same is not to be found, and where else it is found, the report standeth upon hearsayes also, for fama est, is his word, and chief authority) all they deserve no more credite then Martin himself, for all haue drawn their lies out of his fountain.  
johannes de Columna 
johannes de Columna.  a good writer of chronicles long before Onuphrius, hath likewise utterly rejected the vanity of this fable. And as it is false that ever there was any such Pope, so is it not true, that ye note in the margin of your book touching the image, 
There is no such Image in Rome of Pope Joan the woman, as the Defenders report.  which ye say is to be sene yet in Rome, resembling that woman Pope lying in travell. The image which ye mean I haue sene myself at Rome, graven in a ston after the maner of a toumbe ston, pitched upright not far from the Colosseo. It resembleth no such thing ye speak of. What old women and simplo people talk of that and sundry other monuments of antiquity there, it is of no more truth, then that which by such the like persons is talked in England of the stones at Stonedge on the plain of Salisbury by Amesbury, 
old wives tales.  of the stones likewise by Rollewright not far from Long Compton in the edge of Oxford shire, of Ooky hole by wells, and of the brazen head that spake to friar Bacon, whereof at my first coming to Oxford( I remember) I heard many gay tales.  
Neither is it of any more truth, which some haue ignorantly written of the Popes refraining to go that way, when he goeth thereby in solemn processions, nor that which I haue red in some of your scoolefelowes peuish books of the stool of easement, 
The vain surmise of the porphyry stool that is at lateran.  that is at lateran made of fair porphyry ston, which they haue reported to be kept there for an unseemly use at the creation of the Popes, for proof of their humanity. Thus we trust we haue brought your great matter of Pope Joan to nought. If ye haue no other thing of better weight to charge the church withall, then these five( of which we haue now treated) ye may with less blame and more honesty hold your peace.  
But what need one rehearse Concubines and Bawds, 
apology  as for that is now an ordinary, and a gainful sin at Rome. For harlots sit there now a days, not as they did in times past without the city walls, and with their faces hide and covered, 
Gen. 38.  but they dwell in palaces and fair houses: they strey about in court and market, and that with bare and open face: 
In concilie delect. carded. Tomo. 3. De consid. ad Eugeni.  as who say, they may not onely lawfully do it, but ought also to be praised for so doing. What should we say any more of this? Their vicious and abominable life is now thoroughlye known to the whole world. bernard writeth roundely and truly of the bishop of Romes house, yea and of the bishop of Rome himself. Thy palace sayethe he, taketh in good men, but it maketh none: naughty persons thrive there, and the good appayre and decay. And who so ever he were which wrote the Tripartitie work annexed to the council Lateranense, saith thus, So excessive at this day is the ryote as well in the Prelates and Byshoppes, as in the Clerkes and Priestes, that it is horrible to be  told. But these things be not onely grown in ure and so by custom and continual time well allowed, as all the rest of their doings in maner bee, but they are now waxed old and rotten ripe. For who hath not heard what a heinous act Peter Aloisius, Pope Paul the thirdes son committed against Cosmus Cherius the bishop of Fanense: what John Casus archbishop of Beneuentanus the Popes Legate at Venyce wrote in the commendation of a most abominable filthiness, and how he set forth with most lothesom words and wicked eloquence, the matter which ought not once to procede out of any bodys mouth. To whose ears hath it not come, that N. Diasius a Spaniard, being purposely sent from Rome into germany, did shamefulie and diuilishlie murder his own brother John Diasius, a most innocent and a most Godly man, onely because he had embraced the gospel of Iesu Christ, and wolde not return again to Rome?  
But it may chance, to this they will say: These things may sometime happen in the best governed common wealth, yea and against the Magistrates wills: and besides, there be good laws made to punish such. I grant it be so: but by what good laws( I would know) haue these great mischiefs benne punished amongst them? Petrus Aloisius after he had don that notorious act that I spake of, was always cherished in his fathers bosom Pope paul the third, and made his very derling. Diasius after he had murdered his own brother, was delivered by the Popes means, to th'end he might not be punished by good laws. John Casus Archiepiscopus Beneuentanus is yet alive, yea and liveth at Rome, even in the eyes and sight of the most holy Father. They haue put to death infinite numbers of our brethren, only because they believed truly and sincerely in Iesu Christ.   

THE SECOND CHAPTER.  
In all ages good men haue complained of sin and disorder. 
Confutation. Pope Paul the third his desire to reform the church. To. 3. conciliorum. in Suggestione delectorum Cardinalium.  Pope Paul the third being desirours to reform the church, of his own good motion appointed certain Cardinals and others, men of great famed for virtue and learning, to sit together in council, and deliberate, what abuses there were, how they might be taken away, and how a good reformation might be procured. Among other abuses they rehearse this for one, and require it to be reformed, that in the city of Rome, which ought to be the spectacle of the world, courtisanes went abroad, so as the matrons do, that some road on mules, some dwelled in goodly houses. Which particular disorders, as there they continued not many yeres, so in these dayes they haue ben reformed. 
De consideratione ad Eugenium. To. 2. conciliorum.   
Saint Bernard complaineth of the disorder of the Popes court. so might he complain of all courts. The good zealous man that wrote tripartitum opusculum, which is annexed to the council of lateran sub Innocentio tertio, complaineth also( though not so evil as ye make him to speak) of the riot and wantonness of some persons of the clergy. With all these we also for our part, and all good catholic men complain of things that be amiss, and desire they may be reformed. Now ye for your part do not hereof complain, nor desire a reformation for charities sake, but ye accuse the church for malice, and lay forth to the face of the world the worst ye can say, and much worse then truly ye can say, not to thende the church may be reformed, but defaced, not admonished, but despised, not erected again to the old pureness, but utterly thrown down. Wherein ye follow the father of your heresies, and scoolemaister of your malice the devill, 
Apoca. 12.  who in scripture is called accusator fratrum nostrorum, the accuser of our brethren.  
But sirs how leap ye from Rome, to Placentia, from the clergy to a temporal duke, whom ye call the Popes son, though he was not his son being Pope, but by lawful matrimony before holy orders taken? 
Petrus Aloisius duke of Placentia paul the thirds son in true wedlock. Io●nnes Casa.  For such a one was Peter Aloisius of whom ye speak. Be it, that he was an evil man. What make that against the church? What for defence of your new gospel? As we defend him not, so we leave him to Gods iudgement, and commend him to his mercy. If johannes Casa being yet a young springal, before he came to be a clerk, and long before he was either bishop or legate, made certain amorous sonettes in Italian rhyme, following the Italian poet Petracha, to which kind of exercise the good wits of Italy in youth are much given, and without naming any person flatteringly smoothed that heinous fact, rather then praised, wherein nevertheless he did evil, we confess, and for the same oversight of his youth was notwithstanding his other excellent qualities kept back from the dignity of cardinalship during his life: all this being granted and considered, what hindereth it the estimation of Christes Church? 
filthy poetries set forth in latin by Beza of Geneua.  And what furthereth it your false doctrine, your schisms, and your heresies? How much more justly might we,( if we would follow you) object to you the abominable and filthy poetries, which Beza the chief pillar of your gospel of all that now live, hath set forth in latin for al the world to red? Which himself can not deny but were made wantonly rather at the imitation of vnchast Catullus and Naso, 
In epistola ad Meliorem Volmarium Rufum praeposita Conf●ss●oni.  then so as became an honest Christian. Ye should haue caused Beza, whom ye esteem so much, to clear himself of his unclean writings, before ye had blamed the catholics for a few Italian rhymes of johannes Casa, which ye never saw, neither whatsoever your bawdy Bale writeth, be they suffered to be sene in print.  
Touching the death of John Diazius the Spaniard, ye tell many lies at once. Alphonsus Diazius was not of purpose sent from Rome into germany to kill his brother John. If any had born him so much malice, it is likely he would haue committed that wicked service to an other, rather then to his own natural brother. That is one lie. That Alphonsus Diazius killed John Diazius, that is an other lie. That John Diazius was slain only because he had embraced the gospel of Iesus Christ, and would not return again to Rome: this is the third lie. And how could he return to Rome where he was not before? That the said Alphonsus, after he had murdered his own brother, was delivered by the Popes means, 
The truth touching John Diazius death.  to th'end he might not be punished by good laws: this is the fourth lie. The truth hereof is this, as it is known by the confession of the person, that played the worst part of this tragedy, who of late was alive. Alphonsus Diazius a spaniard, a learned man in the laws, came from Rome into germany for no other purpose for that is known, but to see his brother John Diazius then maintaining his poor state by attending vpon a print. He had to accompany him in that journey, an other Spaniard name johannes Niger, a man of war. After that all being done for which he came, he had taken leave of his brother, they were not far gone from the place, but this John Niger bearing deadly hatred to John Diazius, for his opinion as it is thought, which was not all together the gospel of Iesus Christ: road back again to the house where he remained, and getting the said John Diazius to a secret place, killed him. That done he sped himself to Alphonsus, and they both road away. Now whether Alphonsus consented to this murder or no, that neither ye, nor any man beside them two knoweth. That he killed him not himself, though ye say so, it is well known. The murder being known, horsemen made out after them, by whom they were taken, and brought to prison. Forthwith great suit being made for them both to Ferdinando of famous memory then king of Romaines, late Emperour, in whose dominion they were apprehended: Alphonsus Diazius by means of the cardinal of Trent having his palace thereby, was delivered. johannes Niger, after he was condemned to die, his pardon was procured by the earnest suit of certain spaniards. Now as we detest the fact, so can not ye justify your unjust charging of others with the gylt of it. Neither haue ye any reason why this fact should derogate the catholic faith, against which ye bring all that ye can. How so ever it was, among the catholics, as well as among the Huguenots, some always be found, whom good men hold not for sainctes. Notwithstanding whose wickedness, the catholic faith remaineth clear, and professors of the same be without blame.  

apology  But of that great and foul number of harlots, fornicators, adulterers, what one haue they at any time( I say not killed) but either excommunicate, or once attached? Why? volupteousnesse, adultery, rybaudrie, whoredom, murdering of kin, incest, and others more abominable partes, are not these counted sin at Rome? Or if they be sin, ought Christes vicar, Peters successor, the most holy Father so lightly and slitely bear them as though they were no sin, and that in the city of Rome, and in that pincipall tower of all holiness? O holy Scribes and pharisees, which knew not this kind of holiness. O what holiness, what a catholic faith is this▪ Peter did not this teach at Rome, Paul did not so live at Rome: they did not practise brothelry which these do openly: they made not a yearly revenue and profit of harlots: they suffered no common Adulterours and wicked Murtherers to go unpunished. They did not receive them into their entire familiarity, into their council, into their househoulde, nor yet into the company of Christen men. These men ought not therefore so vnreasonablie to triumph against our living. It had ben more wisdom for them, either first to haue proved good their own life before the world, or at the least to haue cloaked it a little more cunningly. For we do use still the old and ancient laws( and as much as men may do in the manners v●ed at these dayes, when all things are so wholly corrupt) we diligently and earnestly put in execution the ecclesiastical discipline: wee haue not common brothel houses of strumpettes, nor yet flocks of Concubines, nor herds of harlot haunters. Neither do we prefer adultery before matrimony, neither do we exercise beastly sensuality. Neither do we gather ordinary rents and stipends of stews, nor do suffer to escape unpunished incest and abominable naughtiness, nor yet such manquellers as the Aloisians, Casians, and Diasians were. For if these things would haue pleased us, wee needed not to haue departed from these mennes fellowship, amongst whom such enormities be in their chief pride and price. neither needed we for leaving them to ronne into the hatred of men, and into most wilful dangers.   

THE THIRD CHAPTER.  
Where ye deny that of so great and soul number of harlots, fornicators, adulterers, 
Confutatation.  no one hath at any time ben excommunicat nor attached at Rome: this ye deny as impudently, as ye affirmed the other matter of Diazius falsely. For it is well known, 
keepers of concubines be and ever haue ben punished at Rome.  that keepers of Concubines haue by diverse Popes oftentimes ben punished. And what Petrus Damiani that godly and learned man writeth, concerning that harlots, specially Concubines were sharply chastised of lo the ninth, of steven the tenth, of Nicolaus the second, and of Gregory the seventh: the same we read to haue ben done after Petrus Damiani his time, by Honorius the third, by Gregory the ninth, by Alexander the fourth, by Nicolas the fourth, by John the two and twentieth, by Gregory the eleventh. And in our dayes we haue good intelligence the same to haue ben most diligently observed, that harlots and concubines haue ben punished by Paulus the fourth, and pus the fourth that now is Pope. This is so clear a matter, as it needeth no probation of witness. For both they that haue ben at Rome, can not be ignorant thereof, and they that be out of Rome, might easily haue known it. Wherefore what punishment is due to slanderers, that ought this defender to haue for this false slander.  
Here all that followeth in your apology for the compass of many sentences, containeth nothing but railing at Christes vicar and them at Rome, and an exclamation of foolish rhetoric, with telling what Peter and Paul did not at Rome, which I count not worth the answering. Then cometh me your secretary, and praiseth himself, and all you his holy companions, besides all wit and modesty. And saith much in commendation of your ministershippes goodness, for that ye keep and use still the old and ancient laws forsooth and discipline of the church, 
The new clergy of England pretendeth to keep the old laws and discipline of the church.  where as ye break all old laws, and if they stood in force, all your wicked usurped state were sone overthrown. And( for that in this behalf ye say) what discipline I pray you, is that ye haue put in such diligent and earnest execution? The case being so, as for cause of your former vow solemnly and advisedly made to God, ye may not mary, as I haue before proved: living as ye do, in adultery, in inceste, in sacrilege, worse then aduoutrers( for so the old and holy fathers report of you) how becometh it you to reprove the church of Rome, and consequently the whole church of Christ? What speak ye of common brothel houses? Be not your private houses and chambers shops of so much more heinous abomination, how much adultery, incest, and sacrilege, is more heinous then fornication? What speak ye of strumpettes and concubines? Be not your abominable yokefellows and married Nonnes in respect of your vows many degrees worse, 
private brothel houses.  how much worse it is to defile the bed of Christ, then the bed of a man? What speak ye of harlot haunters? Do ye not yourselves live altogether or rather continually wallow in sacrilegius and incestuous lechery? 
●ayned holynes, double iniquity.  If feigned holiness be double iniquity, as is commonly and truly said, how do ye not worse then common fornicators, by that ye excuse your sin, and cloak it with the name of matrimony? Consider ye not how therein ye do great injury and villainy to that holy sacrament? For shane, for conscience, for regard of the world, for fear of Gods wrath, for avoiding everlasting fire, return to the catholic church, from whence ye are broken out like the fat bulls of Basan, put away your most unlawful yokefellows, forsake your wicked and sacrilegious embracinges, purge the abominable stinch of your own chambers: and then with us reprehend the sufferance of brothel houses abroad, blame lewd life in all, chastise strumpettes and concubines, punish all adultery, redress what in you lieth, all uncleanness. As for such as ye mean by Aloisians, Casians, and Diazians, if ye find any of that sort, cleanse the world of them by due rigour of the Lawe. So may ye come into Gods favour again, so may ye be members of his catholic church again, from whence ye confess your wicked departure. For doing whereof, our enormities that ye rail at, what so ever they be, shall not serve you in Gods iudgement for any part of your excuse. Neither by Christes word shall ye cease to be accounted hypocrites, for taking a mote out of our eyes, 
Mat. 7.  until ye take the beam out that is in your own eyes. leave yourselves to be abominable, before with such spiteful railing ye reprehend our infirmity.  
paul the fourthe not many months since, 
apology  had at Rome in prison certain Augustine friars, many Byshops, and a great number of other devout men, for Religion sake, he racked them and tormented them: to make them confess, he left no means vnassayed. But in th'end how many brothels, how many whoremongers, how many adulterers, how many incestuous persons could he find of all those?  

Confutation.  As for your Augustine friers and other devout men that Paul the fourth had in prison at Rome for religions sake, as ye say, truth it is( as I understand from thence) he commanded to prison certain heretics and apostates, who had gone out of their religion. And there he kept them, to thintent vexation might give them understanding, 
Apostates by imprisonment and other vexations brought to amendment under Pope Paul the fourth.  and that by compulsion they might learn to do well, which medicine S. Augustine alloweth in those, who of their own accord refuse to do their duty. He caused those apostates to be apprehended all in one day and within few houres, and to be put in prison. Whereas many dayes before that he had caused a public edict openly to be proclaimed, that all such as were gone out of their religion, should return home again. That many obeyed that proclamation, not only Rome is witness, but also all Italy. whereas many that had continued forth of their religions many yeres, being strooken with repentance, willingly returned out of diverse provinces to their monastical habit and rule, which they had professed, and at this day live in their monasteries well and regiously. Many others persisting in their malice, shewed themselves so stubborn, that the Pope thought it necessary to put unto them the discipline of imprisonment. Racking and torments used he none, what so ever ye say.  
At length the prison did that, which gentleness could not do. And so by this remedy many were saved, that other wise should haue perished, returned to their monasteries from whence they ran away, in the which they remain and live as becometh religious men. 
A medicine for Apostates.  If the like medicine were mercifully ministered unto you sirs and your companions, of which some be broken out of their cloister, and all gone out of Christes church: I doubt not but many of you should be reduced to a better mind, repent, return home again, and prove saved souls. Our Lord grant that it may so be.  
Our God be thanked, 
apology  although we be not the men we ought and profess to be, yet whosoever we be, compare us with these men, and even our own life and innocency will sone prove untrue, and condemn their malicious surmises. For we exhort the people to all virtue and well doing, not only by books and threatenings, but also with our examples and behaviour. We also teach that the gospel is not a boasting or bragging of knowledge, but that it is the lawe of life, 
In Ap●l. cap. 45.  and that a Christian man( as Tertullian saith) ought not to speak honourably, but ought to live honourably: nor that they be the hears of lawe, but the doers of the lawe, which are justified before God.  
Nay nay sirs for that thing ye crack so much of, 
Confutation.  be not to hasty to thank your God, what peculiar God ye mean we know not, that phrase your secretary much useth as though ye had an other God beside him that is God of all. Compare yourselves with whom ye list, your own life and innocency is so well known, as by reproving your vices and horrible sins, no man lightly shall seem a slanderer. In dede if your continual adultery and incest were lawful matrimony, 
The new english clergy haue no just cause to crack of their innocency and holy life.  if your filthy yokefellows were your true wedded wives, if your robbing and throwing down of churches were almose and bulding of places for prayer to the increase of Gods honour, if ignorant rashness were godly discretion, if your word of the Lord, were Gods word, if your pretensed gospel, were Christes true gospel, if your biblebable and railing were wholesome preaching, if the spirit of Satan that is in you, the same also being a lying spirit in your mouths, could be meek, humble, obedient, and would tell truth, finally if evil were good, if darkness were light, if sour were sweet, if the fruits of your so naughty a three were good: we would also soothe you, and uphold your immoderate cracks, we would say as much for you, as ye say for yourselves. But you being as ye be, and we knowing you, as we do, how so ever ye deceive the simplo, for whom your damnation shall be the more grievous: we say plainly of you at one word, which we will to be a watchword for al Christen people to be ware of you, your doctrine is heresy, your life is iniquity, your endeavour tendeth to the subversion of souls.  

apology  Besides all these matters wherewith they charge us, they are wont also to add this one thing, which they enlarge with all kind of spitefulnes: that is, that we be men of trouble, that we pluck the sword and sceptre out of kings hands: that we arm the people, that we overthrow iudgement places, destroy the laws, make hauoke of possessions, seek to make the people Princes, turn all things upside down: and to be short, that we would haue nothing in good frame in a common wealth. Good lord, how often haue they set on fire princes heartes with these words, to th'end they might quench the light of the gospel in the very first appearing of it, 
tertul. in Apollo. ca. 1.2.3.  and might begin to hate the same or ever they were able to know it, and to th'end that every magistrate might think he saw his deadly enemy, as often as he saw any of vs. Surely it should exceedingly grieve us to be so maliciously accused of most heinous treason, unless we knew that Christ himself, the Apostles and a number of good christian men were in time past blamed and envy in maner for the same faults. For although Christ taught, they should give unto caesar that which was Cesars, yet was he charged with sedition in that he was accused to devise some conspiracy and to covet the kingdom. And thereupon they cried out with open mouth against him in the place of iudgement saying: Yf thou let this man scape, thou arte not Cesars friend.  
And though the Apostles did likewise evermore and steadfastly teach, that magistrates ought to be obeied, that every soul ought to be subject to the higher powers, not onely for fear of wrath and punishment, but even for conscience sake, yet bear they the name to disquiet the people, and to stir up the multitude to rebel. After this sort did Haman specially bring the nation of the Iewes into the hatred of king Assuerus, 
In the book of Hester. 3. Reg. 18.  because, said he, they were a rebellious and stubborn people, and despised the ordinances and commandments of Princes. Wicked king ahab said to ely the Prophet of God, It is thou that troublest Israell. Amasias the priest at bethel laid a conspiracy to the prophet Amos charge before king jeroboam saying, See, 
Amos. 7. In Apolog. cap. 37.  Amos hath made a conspiracy against thee in the midst of the house of Israell. To bee brief: Tertullian saith, this was the general accusation of all Christians whils he lived, that they were traitors, they were rebelles, and the enemies of mankind. Wherefore if now adays the truth be likewise evil spoken of, and being the same truth it was then, if it be now like despitefully used as it was in times past, though it be a grievous and unkind dealing, yet can it not seem unto us a new or an unwonted matter.   

THE fourth CHAPTER.  
This odious matter which ye are charged withall, 
Confutation. To speak particularly of the troublesome attempts of the gospelers it is needles, the world so well knowing them.  as ye say, we will not aggravate nor enlarge. How far ye haue attempted( I mean the sects of your brotherhood) in sundry countries to wrest the sword out of princes hands, to transpose their sceptres at your pleasure, and to alter states and signories: though we hold our peace, the world iudgeth, the blood of so many thousands slain speak, England repenteth, Scotland morneth, germany roareth, france bewayleth, Sauoye weepeth, all christendom lamenteth. Were the hundred thousand bowers of germany consumed by the sword of the nobility there for ther obedience? The Duke of saxony and Lantgraue of Hesse, 
Roma. 12. The stir of huguehots in france for the gospel. The Suitzers of Berna wrongfully invaded the possesnē● of tholde Duke of Sauoye.  were they overthrown in field and taken captive, for standing in defence of their sovereign? Were so great multitudes of people destroyed at Munster for their loyalty? Let every soul be subject to the higher powers, saith S. Paul, and he that resisteth the power resisteth the ordinance of God. Your good brethren of france that of late were in arms, and committed those Turkish outrages, did they all that for maintenance of their liege prince, and of the powers that under him had commission? Your sacramentary Suitzers of Berna, who robbed the quiet old Duke of Sauoye of his towns and countries from the farther side of the lake of Geneua unto the Alpes, did they this for maintenance of his right, and to set him at rest with little? What meant ye when ye laid your heads together being at Geneua in queen Maries dayes, 
traitorous books name the first and second blasts of the trumpet made by the genevian brothered against the regiment of women.  the faithful brothers of England and Scotland, and devised a most seditious and traitorous book against the monstrous regiment of women? minded ye to blow peace, tranquillitie, and good order to the realms of England and Scotland, when ye sent abroad great numbers of those books printed in Geneua amongst the people, bearing name and title of the first and second blast of the trumpet? Mo of your blasts I haue not sene, but mo did ye promise, or rather threaten, I am sure. Was not your intent and purpose openly professed with those traitorous blasts of your trumpet, to blow two just crownes from the heads of two most noble and lawful queens at once? Well, mo examples domestical and other could I here rehearse of this sort, but I am content to spare you.  
For answer to all this, ye join yourselves with Christ and his Apostles, as though ye were guilty herein no more then they. Presumptuously said. But the matter is not so answered. And yet ye ronne at large in that common place, and very vainly or rather Lucifer like, 
Hester. 3.3. Reg. 18. Amos. 7. The Defenders comparison of themselves with Prophets, Apostles, sainctes of the primitive church confuted.  compare yourselves with the Apostles, with the innocent Iewes against whom Aman stirred king Assuerus, with Elias the prophet, whom wicked king ahab persecuted, with the prophet Amos accused to king jeroboam by Amasias the idolater priest of Bethel, brieflly with those most holy Christians of the primitive church. But sirs stay here, ronne no farther. Ye are sone stopped. The case is not like pardy. These be but your words. In the Apostles was the truth in dede, so was it in the holy Prophets, and those first blessed men of the church. The truth ye boast and crack so much of, is not that truth. It is the truth of heretics, 
heretics pretensed truth.  which all they say they haue, be they never so repugnant to Gods truth revealed to his spouse the church by the holy ghost, and contrary within themselves. This ground taken from you, 
The building of the Defenders standeth vpon a false ground, which is manifest untruth.  all the building of your gay rhetoric falleth down flat. And yet ye bestow much talk, as though truth were of your side. talk less like Rhetoricians, and prove us that ye haue truth, like honest men. And then talk on, but that can ye never do, so long as ye remain out of the church, and enemies to the church. But what spend I words in vain? Your hartes be hardened, your eyes be blinded, your ears be stopped. Because so ye kick against the prick who is Christ, and hate his church, and will not receive the love of the truth: 
2. Thess. 2.  God hath suffered you to be amazed with a strong delusion, that ye should believe lies. Our Lord give you grace to repent, that as by your false doctrine and wicked example thousands haue ben everlastingly lost, so by your happy return the number that is going and streyeth, may be revoked and saved.  
Forty yeares ago and upward, 
apology  was it an easy thing for them to devise against us these accursed speeches and other sorer then these, when in the midst of the darkness of that age first began to spring and to give shine, some one glimmeringe beam of truth unknown at that time and vnheared of, when also Martin Luther and Hulderike Zwinglius being most excellent men, even sent of God to give light to the whole world, first came unto the knowledge and preaching of the gospel, whereas yet the thing was but new, and the success thereof uncertain: and when mens mindes stood doubtful and amazed, and their ears open to all slanderous tales: and when there could bee imagined against us no fact so detestable, but the people then would soon believe it for the novelty and strangeness of the matter. For so did Symmachus, so did Celsus, so did julianus, so did Porphirius the old foes to the gospel attempt in times past to accuse all Christians of sedition and treason, before that either prince or people were able to know who those Christians were, what they professed, what they believed, or what was their meaning.  

Confutation.  As ye run forth your race, and with lying amplification boast and brag of the truth of your doctrine, and of the innocency of your demeanour: ye fall into a great inconvenience and oversight. Which as it is contrary to Gods infallible truth, so neither is it agreeable with your doctors positions, nor with your own writings and threatenings. Ye say, that above forty yeres past, a glimmering beam of truth unknown at that time and unheard of, first began to spring and shine. Then( say ye) Martin Luther and Hulderike Zwinglius being most excellent men, 
An other new first beginning of the gospel, The lost gospel lately restored by Luther and Zwinglius.  even sent of God to give light to the whole world, first came unto the knowledge and preaching of the gospel. Why maisters was the sun, the moon, and all the stars quiter put out, till the time came, that lecherous friers married wanton Nonnes? Was the light extinguished in all Israell, till that lewd friar came, and Zwinglius the swart rutter? Shall we now change the old song of Micheas the prophet, out of Sion shall come the lawe, and the word of our lord from jerusalem, 
Miche. 4.  and sing a new song, out of Wittenberg is come the gospel, and the word of the lord from Zurich and Geneua? Hath Christ suffered the candle of his gospel, 
Mat. 5.  which himself would to be set in the candelsticke to give light to al them of his house, which is his church disparsed abroad through out the whole world, to be put under a bushel, or rather to be put out, till Luther the Apostata came? What were is merites that he should obtain such prerogative? What were his miracles, that we should be moved to forsake our old faith, and believe his new preaching? If Luther and Zwinglius first came to the knowledge and preaching of the gospel, what meant Christ to break his promise, who said, 
Mat. 28.  I will be with you all dayes till the end of the world? again was he not able to obtain that he prayed to his father for? Or if he obtained his request, as he was never ne could be denied any, pro sua uerentia, how cometh it to pass, that his word was not performed, where he said, I will beseech my father, 
Heb. 5. john. 5.  and he will give you an other comforter, the spirit of truth, whom the world it not able to take, to remain with you for ever?  
again how forgot ye the old proverb, a liar it behoveth to be mindful? 

The Defenders vnmyndefully show themselves contrary to themselves, and to their other best learned brethren. The gospelling Apostles before luthers dayes.  
The author of the harbour contrary to the Defenders.  
The writers of Magdeburg contrary to the defenders, brethren against brethren.   Remember ye not how this is contrary to al your own doctrine? For say ye not otherwheres, that God had always his number of the elect, and his invisible church? Preach ye and writ ye not, that before Luther was born, the pure word of God was known and uttered by Huss, and jerome of Prague, Wicklef and their followers, by Peterbrusians in S. Bernardes time, by S. bernard himself where he findeth fault with abuses and disorders of the Popes court, by Berengarius the founder of your sacramentary gospel, by Bertram, by Waldenses, by Albingensies, and many others? How agree ye with the author of the harbour, who toward thende of that book, maketh England thus to speak? I am thy country England, who brought forth that blessed man john wickliff, who begat Huss, who begat Luther, who begat truth. Where in the margin is written, this is the second birth of Christ. What do your fellows of germany, Illyricus and his companions, who be so busy about the clowting and patching together of their evil purposed Centurias, what do they else I say, but by cartlodes of lies and missensed allegations go about to prove, that in all ages the gospel was known and preached, and that the light of the lords word spread abroad bright beams over the world in all ages, that is to say, that always some professed hatred against the catholic church, found fault with the bishops of Rome, impugned the catholic faith, laboured to deface holy ceremonies, to subvert all good order and discipline? Therefore this must ye recant and call back again, or else shall ye pull all the rabble of sundry your own sects vpon your shoulders, whose filthy railinges and vile upbraidings poor souls ye shall never be able to abide.  

apology  But now sithence our very enemies do see and cannot deny, but we ever in all our words and writings haue diligently put the people in mind of their duty, to obey their Princes and Magistrates, ye though they be wicked: For this doth very trial and experience sufficiently teach, and all mennes eyes, who soever and wheresoever they be, do well enough see and witness for us, yt was a foul parte of them to charge us with these things: and seing they could finde no new and late faults, therfore to seek to procure us envy only with stale and outworn lies. We give our lord God thanks, whose only cause this is, there hath yet at no time been any such example in all the realms, Dominions and common weals which haue received the gospel. For we haue overthrown no kingdom, we haue decayed no mans power or right, we haue disordered no common wealth. There continue in their own accustomend state and ancient dignity the kings of our country of england, the kings of denmark, the kings of Suetia, the Dukes of saxony, the Counties Palatine, the Marquesies of Brandeburgh, the Lansgraues of Hessia, the common wealths of the helvetians and Rhetians, and the free cities, as Argentine, Basil, Franckforde, Vlme, August and Norrenberge, do all I say abide in the same authority and estate wherein they haue been heretofore, or rather in a much better, for that by means of the gospel they haue their people more obedient unto them. let them go I pray you into those places where at this present through Goddes goodness the gospel is taught. Where is there more majesty? Where is there less arrogancy and tirrannye? Where is the Prince more honoured? Where be the people less vnrulye? Where hath there at any time the common wealth or the Church been in more quiet? perhaps ye will say, from the first beginning of this doctrine, the common sort every where began to rage and to rise throughout Germany. A low it were so, yet Martin Luther the publisher and setter forward of this doctrine, didde writ marvelous vehementlye and sharply against them, and reclamed them home to peace and obedience.   

THE FIFTH CHAPTER.  
Your impudency of lying hath no measure nor end. 
Confutation.  But we will say little here, having said enough already in reproof of your falsehood. We leave you to the wide world, who seeth and almost feeleth your lies. Do the catholics charge you with old matters, for that they can find no new and late faults in you? How many yeres ago is it, 
Pultrot was he that by Beza and an other preacher was persuaded to kill the duke of Guise. armour taken by the germans for the defence of Luthers gospel Against Charles the 5. Emperour. What maintainers of quiet of kingdoms the gospelers be, it appeareth by their seditious blasts blown against the regiment of women.  I pray you, sithence Beza, Pultrot, and your other brethren of france, and your Armies of the gospelers there commonly called huguenots, wrought their feats and acts, which sore irketh all christendom to hear of, fitter for your gospel of Geneua, then for the gospel of Iesus Christ? But we haue overthrown no kingdom, ye say. Ye would if ye could. We haue decayed no mans power or right. Ye haue done all that ye were able. Why rose your brethren of germany against Charles the fifth the best and noblest Emperour sense the great Charles, commonly name charlemagne? Why would they haue him no more called by the name of his highest honour and title, but by the name of Charles of gaunt? went they not about to expelle him from the right of the Empire? Is this no decaying of a mans power and right? By what occasion is the realm of hungary decayed, and for the more part become a pray for the turk, but through the dissension of the nobles raised and maintained for your gospels sake? I put you here in mind eftsoons of your traitorous blasts of your trumpets against the regiment of women. Is it not known who is in Scotland yet, and may not come into England for having put his help to the making of those traitorous books? We haue disordered, say ye no common wealth. What common wealth haue ye not disordered, shaken, and almost brought to nought, where so ever through 〈…〉 ●geaunce for sins your gospel is suffered to haue entrance? deny it, and let the world judge. As for your Dukes, your Counties, your Marqueses, your Landsgraues, that ye crack of, and most of your free Cities in germany, if Charles the Emperour had either followed the stomach of conquerors, or had used toward them iustice, rather then clemency: they had not ben in case at these dayes, that ye should haue made great brags of them. For they had ben brought full low, as of late yeres the communality of denmark, that rose against their nobles, as the nobles of Sueden, that made battle against the king there, as your fellow Lutherans of Lifland, that fought against the catholics.  
But I marvell not a little that in this place specially, where ye speak of the good order that your gospel breadeth, 
What good order for common quiet this new gospel breedeth, it appeareth by the- first founder of it. Lib. de seculari potestate, vel civili Magistratu. in ●omo. 6. germ. Philip. 2.1. Petri. 5. Luther admitteth no civil magistrate. luke. 14.  ye be not ashamed to make mention of Martin Luther. Good God how much could we, if we were so disposed, allege out of his seditious and heretical books by him written against the power of lawful magistrates? At this time let one place suffice for all. Luthers words be these. Inter Christianos nullus neque potest, neque debet esse magistratus, said &c. Among Christen men none can nor ought to be a magistrate, but each one is to other equally subject. After the Apostles saying, Thinking all others better then yourselves, &c. again, be ye humble all one to an other. Whereto Christ accordeth when he saith. When thou art called to the marriage feast, go, and sit down lowest of all. Among Christen men, none is superior save one and only Christ. And what superiority or magistrate can be there, where all be equal, and haue right, power, riches, and honor all alike? Furthermore none coveteth to be over other, but all will be under one an other. Where such men be, though one would, yet can he not make a magistrate to bear rule over others, sith that nature suffereth not to haue superiors, where no man will, nor may be a superior. And where such kind of men is, there be they not Christen men, after the true and right sort of Christen men. This far Martin Luther.  
Staphylus where he ●heweth how little concord the Lutherans haue among themselves, 
In Apologi●.  and that out of their own writings, declareth that Luther stirred up by his seditious books the common people of germany against the nobility. But ye say, he wrote vehemently against them for it, 
Tho. Mūzer Luthers scole● preacher to the common people of Gemanie that rose against their princes.  and reclaimed them home to peace and obedience. Yea, but he did it to late, and after there had ben a hundred thousand of them slain as Sleidane one of your own sect in his story confesseth. He persuaded them to peace, when there was scarcely any left that could bear a club. First he stirred up his disciple Thomas Munzer in Thuringia, who was the rebelles preacher. After that he excused him of seditious preaching to the Duke of saxony Prince elector, trusting if Munzer were let alone, the matter should well go forward. But when he saw the Princes address themselves to war, and understood their power was to mighty for the rebelles: fearing least his liberty, 
The sorowefull diring that Luther kept for the hundred thousand bowers slain in germany through his occasion. In Farragine.  which he had taught should be straighted, forthwith wrote to the princes, exhorting them to destroy the poor deceived husbandmen. After their terrible overthrow, to declare, what thought he took at his heart for the great slaughter of the people by his means and doctrine seduced, he took Katerine Bore, the Nonne late stolen out of her monastery, to be his yokefellowe, and called it wedlock, and with her forsooth, who as Erasmus writeth of her, was a ioyly merry one, kept a sorrowful diring, and made great mone for them.  
But whereas it is wont sometime to be objected, 
apology  by personnes wanting skill, touching the helvetians change of state and killing of Leopoldus the duke of Austria, and restoring by force their country to liberty, that was donne as appeareth plainly by all stories, for two hundreth and threescore yeares past or above, under Boniface the eight, when the autho●ie of the Bishop of Rome was in greatest jollity, about to hundreth yeares before Hulderike Zuinglius either began to teach the gospel, or yet was born. And ever sense that time, they haue had all things still and quiet, not only from foreign enemies, but also from ciuell dissension. And yf it were a sin in the helvetians to deliver their own country from foreign government, specially when they were so proudelye and tyrannouslye oppressed, yet to burden us with other mennes faults, or them with the faults of their forefathers, is against all right and reason.  

Confutation. Duke Leopold of Austria.  Where ye discharge yourselves of the helvetians killing of Leopold their duke,( which no man as I think was so foolish, as to burden you with) and seem to excuse that fact in maner, because thereby they delivered their country from foreign government, specially when they were proudly and tyrannously oppressed, as ye say believing their own chronicles, and would not any man to burden you with other mennes faults, nor them with the faults of their forefathers: herein ye haue reason, and for some parte, right and equity, and we require you to hold you in this mind, and that ye admit us to the like equity, where in like cases ye burden the catholics with other mens faults, and with the unjust acts of their forefathers, as partly we haue before touched, and shall hereafter declare. Now your spirit is not content with that ye haue railed already against the Pope and holy church, but it moveth you again to rave and cry out. But whether with more malice or reason, let us indifferently consider.  

apology  But O immortal God, and will the bishop of Rome accuse us of treason? will he teach the people to obey and follow their Magistrates? Or hath he any regard at all of the majesty of Princes? Whye doth he then as none of the old bishops of Rome heretofore ever didde, suffer himself to bee called of his flatterers, 
August. Steuchus. Ant●nius de Rosellis.  lord of lords, as though he would haue all kings and Princes, who and what so ever they are, to bee his vnderlinges? Whye doth he vaunt himself to bee king of kings, and to haue kyngelye Roialtie over his Subiectes? Why compelleth he all emperours and princes to swear to him fealty and true obedience? Whye doth he boast that the Emperous majesty is a thowsandfould inferior to him? And for this reason, 
De Maior.& obedi. Solite. De maior. et obedie●. Vnā sanctam  specially because God hath made two lights in the heaven, and because heaven and earth were created not at two beginnings, but at on. Why hath he and his complices( like Anabaptistes and Libertines, to the end they might ronne on more licenciouslye and careleslye) shaken of the yoke, and exempted themselves from being under all ciuell power? why hath he his Legates( asmuch to say as most subtle spies) lying in wait in all kings courts, councils, and priuey chambers? why doth he, when he list, set the Christian Princes one against an other, and at his own pleasure trouble the whole world with debate and discord? why doth he excommunicate and command to be taken as a heathen and a Pagan any Christian Prince that renounceth his authority? and why promiseth he his Indulgences and his pardons largely to any that will( what way soever it be) kill any of his enemies? Doth he maintain Empires and kingdoms? Or doth he once desire that common quiet should bee provided for? You must pardonne us good Reader, though wee seem to utter these things more bitterlye and bitingly then it becometh divines to do. For both the shamefulnes of the matter, and the desire of rule in the bishop of Rome is so exceeding and outrageous, that it could not well be uttered with other words, or more mildly. For he is not ashamed to say in open assembly, 
Clemens. 5. in council. Viennensi. lo papa.  that all jurisdiction of all kings doth depend vpon himself. And to feed his ambition and greediness of rule, hath he pulled in pieces the Empire of Rome, and vexed and rent whole christendom asunder: falsely and traiterouslye also did he release the Romains, the Italians, and himself to, of the oath whereby they and he were straightly bound to bee true to the Emperour of Grecia, and stirred up the Emperours subiectes to forsake him, and calling Carolus Martelius out of france into italy, made him Emperour: such a thing as never was seen before. 
Zacharias papa.  He put Chilpericus the french king, being no evil prince, beside his realm, only because he fancied him not, and wrongfully placed pippin in his room. again, after he had cast out king Philip, if he could haue brought it so to pass, he had determined and appointed the kingdom of france to Albertus king of Romaines. He utterly destroyed the state of the most flourishing city and common weal of Florence his own native country, and brought it out of a free and peasable state, 
Clemens papa. 7.  to be governed at the pleesure of one man, he brought to pass by his procurement that whole Sauoye on the one side was miserable 
Idem Clemens  spoyled by Themperour Charles the 〈…〉 ●d on the other side by the french king, so as the vnfortu● 〈…〉 ●ke had scant one city le●t him to hide his head in.   

THE SIXTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  It is a great eye sore to the ministers of Antichrist to see the vicar of Christ above lords and kings of this world, to see princes and Emperours promise and swear obedience unto him. 
It is no absurdity the shepherd to be in auctor●tie over the whole flock.  But they that are the faithful subiectes of the church of God, think it no absurdity, that the shepherd be set not only above the lambs and Ewes of the church, but also above the Wethers and rams themselves. It is a very great folly for them to find fault with the superiority of the bishop of Rome, who can never prove, 
Dist. x●vj. C. dvo sunt Mat. 16.  that he is not the vicar of Christ. If he were not his vicar, yet being a Bishop he is above any temporal prince concerning his priestlye office. But sith Christ said to Peter, vpon this rock I will build my church, and hell gates shall not prevail against it: bark until your bellies break, ye that be the hellhowndes of Luthers and Zuinglius littour or rather of Sathans your and their chief master, shall not prevail against the apostolic see of Peter. It hath withstanded all devils and heretics a thousand five hundred yeres, and think ye, that yourselves be stronger then Arius? It grieveth you, that the Pope is higher then the Emperour, not for any love ye bear to the Emperour, 
Christ impugned in the Pope his vicar.  nor for hatred that ye haue to the Popes person, whom ye know not: but your quarrel is against Christ, whose person the Pope beareth. Or tell us I pray you, doth he call himself any princes or Emperours vicegerent, and not rather the vicar of Christ alone? Whom impugn ye then but Christ in his vicar? 
luke. 10.  Haue ye not readen, qui vos spernit, me spernit: he that despiseth you 〈…〉 ●h me? Ye thought the Pope had no better text for his prunacie and supreme authority, then two lights which God made in heaven. 
Of the two lights.  But if malice had not blinded you, in the very same chapter of Innocentius the third,( from whence like a spider ye sucked that ye thought was worst) ye might haue sene an other reason going before, where he said, Pontifex in spiritualibus antecellit, quae tanto sunt temporalibus digniora, quanto anima praefertur corpori. The bishop( said Innocentius) in spiritual matters passeth( the Emperour). which spiritual things are so much above the temporal, by how much the soul is preferred before the body. How like ye that reason? knew ye not that the great divine gregory Nazianzene and other also used the same comparison? 
Oratione ad subd●●os timore perculsos& Imperatorē irascentem. Lib. 3. de digni●. Sacerd. Ierem. 1.  Remember ye not that Chrysostom and Ambrose use other much like? Within a little after Innocentius bringeth forth an other proof. Where it was said to ieremy the prophet, who came of the priestes race, and was a priest himself, behold I haue set thee our nations and kingdoms, to the intent thou mayst pull up and scatter, and build, and plant. By which words it appeareth by Gods good pleasure great power to be given to a priest in some case touching the disposition of kingdoms. These proofs our defenders could not find, and yet they are to be sene in the same place and chapter before that Innocentius cometh to the similitude of the two lights. When will ye forsake the school of lying, and leave to say, that Innocentius or any other for him proved the superiority of the Pope, specially or chiefly because God hath made two lights? Is not your word maximè, chiefly? Ye haue not gained so much these few yeres past by deceiving the simplo, who haue perused and red your book: as of right ye shall lose now, when your falsehood is detected.  
Then after that Innocentius had by natural reason and holy scripture proved the highest bishops superiority above princes, he cometh in the hird place not now to prove, but to make his former saying already proved more plain, 
The allusion of the two lights considered.  by alluding to that is written in the beginning of Genesis. Where Moyses declareth how God made two lights in the firmament of the heaven, a greater and a lesser. Now Innocentius far better learned then all our new maisters of this late devised divinity, was not ignorant that heaven signified in the scriptures the catholic church of Christ, and that those who rule others in this church, be as it were lights directing the blind and sely wayegoers into their right way either of going to heaven, either of living virtuously in this world. But as heaven passeth earth more then seventy and seven fold, so doth he that guideth to heaven,( which is the spiritual governor) exceed passingly the guide that ruleth in the worldly business.  
But this can not sound in the ears of our new preachers. They would not haue the guide of heavenly things above the guide of earthly cares. They love the earth, the flesh, the world to well, to be of that mind, and therefore do ask why the Popes of Rome like Anabaptistes and Libertines haue shaken of the yoke, and exempted themselves from all civil power. What yoke mean ye? The yoke of infidels and paynims? Thereof it is written as some expound, 
Psal. 2.  proijciamus à nobis jugum ipsorum, Let us cast of their yoke from vs. Whiles infidels ruled at Rome, the Popes were under them. But when Constantine was baptized, he gave place to S. sylvester then Bishop of Rome, 
Great honour done by Constantine to Pope sylvester, and to the church of Rome.  and to all others successors of S. Peter. O how that irketh your hartes, that so great an Emperour, and the first that openly professed christianity, should by the same holy ghost, who called him to the faith of Christ, be made to depart from that city, which ruled the world, and to yield his own palace partly a church to our saviour Christ, partly a dwelling house for the bishops of Rome? ask of Constantine, why he submitted his neck to S. sylvester. We haue cause to think, that Constantius the heretic son of Constantine, was not very glad of his fathers doing. And yet God suffered him not to return and dwell at Rome, but to leave that city free to the rulers of the church. And we are sure that ye be full angry with Constantine, and judge him not so wise, as ye would haue ben in that case. But as Constantine left Rome to sylvester, so his faithful successors never usurped in matters ecclesiastical any superiority over the bishops of that see. Only so long as the people had a voice in choosing the Pope: it was reason the Emperour should much rather also haue his voice therein. But as the faith of Christ did more and more increase, so did the light of Christes vicars true honour over the world spread abroad the brighter beams: and that by shaking of the yoke, which was unjustly put vpon the highest power in earth. For who shall be judge of the chief judge, as the fathers of the council at Sinuessa said in the cause of Marcellinus, and yet ye find fault, that now he is suffered to rule his own subiectes.  
The Pope hath a kingly power over his own subiectes even in temporal things. Why should ye envy that, 
The Pope hath kingly power over his temporal subiectes.  who never gave him one foot of his lands? When the Christians came to a place and state of rest, God inspired into the hartes of the fathers and bishops even of the primitive church, to take and keep such lands as were given to the churches. Which thing is at large debated by S. Vrbane above thirten hundred yeres past.  

The Popes legates in Princes courts.  The being of the Popes legates and ambassadors in Princes courts, is a thing nolesse convenient, then it is meet for him that hath cure of many flocks of sheep, to set his servants as whatchmen in every part, where such slockes do feed. 
lawful punishments.  The proscriptions and other punishments that Popes do use, are not evil, when they are done for lawful causes, as it is our part always to judge, who are but lookers on, and no maisters in that behalf. His indulgences and pardons depend vpon the power of binding and losing, 
mat. 16.  which Christ gave to Peter and his successors. Ye must demand of Christ, why he gave that power, and not be angry with his vicar for using the same.  
If all the right of all kings depend of Christ, who is king of kings, 
The ministerial power of the Pope.  as long as the Pope truly hath Christes name,( as being a rock built next vpon Christ the first and the true rock) as long as he hath Christes office,( as being commanded in S. Peter whose successor he is to feed both lambs and sheep): 
joan. 21.  so long he shall haue as a minister in earth that right which Christ had in earth, and still hath in heaven. Is not the Viceroy of Naples of that power by right of ministery under king Philip,( so far as thauctoritie of a Viceroy extendeth) as the king himself absolutely is by his own right? We know that ye say, Christ needeth no vicar. 
Christ doth many things, that he needeth not to do, but for mans necessity. provver. 8.  But we tell you, he made a vicar to feed his sheep under him. And Christ doth many things, which he hath not need to do, touching himself, being absolutely needles, as is before said, but for mans necessity. He needed no kings, being nolesse able to rule alone in things temporal, then in spiritual. And yet now kings reign by him, and be his deputes in worldly affairs, and temporal government of the people.  

The Empire translated from the East in to the west in the time and by the authority of Pope lo the third.  Ye find fault with lo the third for making an Emperour in the West. I dare say it grieveth you. For if there had ben none in the West, the turk might haue ben our Emperour er this, and to his barbarous and wicked tyranny might haue subdued this part of the world, specially germany, as he hath subdued Grece, Asia, egypt, Syria, and all the East church. Against which mischief the vicar of Christ by his maisters merciful warning with the princes of the West made provision, and at the length planted the Empire in this order, we see it now in. Which reducing of the Empire from the East to the West, may doubtless seem to haue ben done by Gods providence. 
Causes of the translation of the Empire  For the majesty of it was before almost decayed, and at that time it became vile, partly by continual adversity, partly by heresy, civil dissension, and other manifold impiety. And at length a woman alone name Irene ruled not being of the blood imperial. 
Irene Empresse alone.  Wherewith the princes of the West being moved and finding that seat as it were left not satin on, as Paulus Aemylius writeth, 
Lib. 3.  following the will of God as they thought, made the worthiest prince that then was in the earth( I mean the great Charles) Emperour. 
charlemagne by agreement of Princes made Emperour of the west.  And if that good had not then ben wrought, the Lombardes had wasted and spoiled all Italy, whose power the greek Emperours neither cared for, and through their cowardnes and negligence suffered so far to grow, as at length, they durst not to encounter them in field, and wickedness were they able to chase them away. That besides other weighty causes, very necessity compelled the latin princes to set up an Emperour for maintenance of their states and countries.  
All this mislyketh your proceeding heads because it is profitable for the maintenance of Christian faith, advanceth the honour of Christes church, and stoppeth the course of the Turkes conquests over the West: under whom liberty( as ye think) should be granted you to profess what religion ye fansye most. Why think ye not the greeks to be punished rather for rebellion against the see of Rome, then that the Pope did amiss for chastising them? If they had obeyed the Pope, it is likely they should not haue failed in their belief concerning the proceeding of the holy ghost. Will ye always hold with the Iewes, with the greeks, with the heretics and schimatikes, and with the Turkes, rather then with him, whom God hath ordained shepherd over you?  

King Childerike of france deposed by Zacharias the Pope, and Pipine advanced to the crown.  If the Pope Zacharias deposed Childerike( for so I find him more commonly name) the king of france, only upon his own pleasure or displeasure, as ye say, and placed Pipine for him, can ye tell that story, and not see what a strength of authority is in that See, which is able with a word to place and displace the mightiest king in Europe? With a word I say, For I am sure ye can show us of no army, that he sent to execute that his will. Is that the power of a man trow ye, to appoint kingdoms? Can the devill himself at his pleasure set up and depose kings? No surely. And much less can any member of his do the same. 
Matth. 12.  Remember ye what Christ said when the Iewes objected, that he did cast out devils in the name of the prince of devils? Beware ye sin not against the holy ghost, who confess that the Pope hath pulled down and set up kings. Which thing undoubtedly he could not do profitably and peaceably, 
The prosperity of the line of Pipine& Charles surmounted all other.  but by the great power of God. And yet did that line of Pipine and Charles the great, which the Pope did set up, flourish above any other stock, that ye can name sense the inclination of the roman Empire. Which in that transposed state of so great a kingdom, maketh no obscure argument of heavenly approbation and divine providence.  
Neither did the pope Zacharias depose Childerike, 
What did Pope Zacharias in the deposing of King Childerike. What maner a man Childerike was.  because he fancied him not as ye slander, but only consented to loose his subiectes from bond of oath made to him, at the general and most earnest request and suit of all the nobility and commonalty of the whole realm of france, finding him very unprofitable and vnmeet for the kingdom, as one who being of no wit, and therefore commonly name Stupidus, as much to say a dolt, was altogether besides like a Sardanapalus given wholly to belly cheer, and to filthy love of women. Therefore in your own words ye confess a divine power in the Pope, as by whom God directeth the wills of faithful Princes on the earth. The more such examples ye bring, the worse ye make your cause. I would higher you to ease me of the labour of proving such a notable fact.  
Concerning that ye say of king Philip surnamed lebel, 
The causes of the strife between Philippus Pulcher, and Pope Bonifacius.  if we may believe Paulus Aemylius the best writer of the French chronicles, the cause was such between Pope Bonifacius and that king, that if he did not onely excommunicate him, but also offered gift of his kingdom to Albert the Emperour, as Platina your author herein writeth: he may seem therein to haue done not all together so evil, as ye pretend. For as both Aemylius and Platina do witness, the cause of their falling out was, that whereas the Pope being first sued unto by Cassanus a Christian Prince and a great conqueror in the East to join with him for the recovery of the holy land, sent the bishop of Apamea to the French king for his necessary aid in that so common a quarrel of all christendom: he being offended either that the suit was not first made to him, either for that the said bishop had done his Ambassade with show of more authority, then the king thought it became him, or upon some other private grudge, did not only utterly refuse to sand any help toward the voyage, but also comtemptuously, beside common order, and cruelly, committed the Popes legate to prison, and there kept him, until such time, as through the Popes interdict, the king was compelled to set him at liberty. Now of giving away his kingdom, this chief French historiographer maketh no mention. And if the Pope so did, why may he not seem to haue done it rather to fear him, and to reclaim his mind from disobedience? verily Platina writing it declareth, how before the Pope proceeded to that extremity, the French king did what in him lay, to withdraw the people of france from the obedience of the church and See apostolic. All these things with even iudgement weighed, that Pope seemeth not so much worthy of the blame which by your malign report ye charge him with, specially the occasion being first given of the kings unlawful demeanour. But what soever may be judged hereof, yea though the Pope therein be without all excuse, what is that to you? How serveth it you to any colour of excuse of your schism, and cutting yourselves from the rest of christendom Christes mystical body?  
What ye say of florence and Sauoye, we need not care, sith ye prove nothing else, but that all Christen princes and common weals one way or other haue in all ages obeied the see of Rome. 
Sauoye was not spoiled by the Pope, nor by Charles the v. as the defenders slander them.  That Sauoye was so much spoiled, ye are to blame to burden either the Pope, or that worthy late Emperour Charles the fifth with it. Whereas ye profess lying and barking against Christes vicar, be he faulty or be he faultless, yet ye should haue spared a prince of so great worthiness, and of so famous memory. The truth is, Sauoye substeined most harm by the french king, and by your own good brethren the sacramentary Suitzers of Berna, levied and sent thereto in dede by king francis of that name the first. Who took his advantage therein and used his best opportunity, when the Emperour might not defend his friend the duke, as being occupied in other warres at Tunes in Afrike. Now that the Pope would join with heretics, and those of the worst sort, which yourselves are of, against that good and catholic Duke so dearly beloved of the Emperour then absent, hardly( I ween) ye shall make it to any wiseman very credible.  
And where ye seem to say that the state of Florence was in more quiet and tranquillitie being free in popular government, then it is now under the Duke: natural reason, 
Florence is now in better state under government of the duke then before.  exeamples of both testaments, monarchies instituted by the providence of God as well in the whole world, as in the partes thereof, and the common experience of all sovereign states, and of the Florentines themselves, do control that rash sentence of yours. verily this well sheweth how untrue an heart ye haue against our own most lawful prince at home, and that ye speak ye care not what, so that ye utter your malice against the Pope. doubtless in procuring the change of the valentine common weal, from popular state to the monarchy which now they live in, 
Clement the seventh deserved. immortal thank of Florence his country for changing their state.  Clement the seventh deserved immortal thank an renome of that his country. For so he ended the continual mutations of that common wealth, the endels tumults and dissensions between families, and the cruel murders and slaughters among them daily committed, and brought the city to a good stability, to concord and tranquillitie, and the citizens to a godly amity and friendship with themselves.  
We are cloyed with examples in this behalf, 
apology  and it should be very tedious to reckon up all the notorious deeds of the bishops of Rome. Of which side were they, I beseech you, which poisoned Henry the Emperour, even in the receiving of the sacrament? which poisoned Victor the Pope, even in the receiving of the Chalice? Which poisoned our king john king of England in a drinking cup? Who soever at least they were, and of what sect soever, I am sure they were neither Lutherans, nor Zwinglians.   

THE SEVENTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  Ye demand of which side they were, that poisoned Henry the Emperour, and Victor the Pope, and john the king of England. Ye say, of what sect soever they were, Lutherans and Zwinglians they were not. Ye answer well and truly. And wote ye why? Forsooth your church was not yet framed, your gospel was not yet devised. Wittenberg, Zurich, basil, Francford, Strasburg, yea Geneua itself, and all christendom then were papists. The finds of hell were not yet let loose, that begat Lutherans, Zwinglians, and calvinists. And hereof we understand the yowth of your church, which having divided itself from the old and catholic church, is no other but the malignant church and synagogue of Satan.  
To answer your demands. Who soever they were that poisoned these great personages,( if they were poisoned at all) good men were they not, neither the doers, nor the counsellors. 
It is not agreed vpon by historiographers how Henry of Luxenburg dyed.  Henry of Luxenburg it was, who was poisoned by report. Whom your latin book printed among the huguenots calleth Henry the seventh, M. Doctor Haddon in his answer to Osorius, accounteth him the fourth, in both your english translations( that I haue sene) he is called only Henry. As he laid sige to the city of Florence, and had now brought the Citizens to despair of their safety: when manly courage might not serve, they betook them to cowardly malice. First they poisoned( as it is said) the mind of a friar dominican with gold, that afterward he should aduentere to poison the Emperours body with venom. Paulus Aemylius saith that he died of a sickness, 
Lib. 8.  which he fell into at Bonconuento, as he iourned from Pisa thither. Onuphrius writing of his death, 
In scholijs in Platinam.  saith that he died at Bonconuento a town in the territory of Siena, and maketh no mention of his poisoning. Cornelius Cornepolita writing this story, seemeth to give little credite unto it. For he addeth vt aiunt, as they say, 
In Chronographia.  as though it were a matter avouched by no certainty, but by hearesaye. Nauclerus reporteth, that the order of those religious men is said to haue a testimonial in writing, witnessing the foresaid friar to haue ben innocent, and that the whole was but a feigned tale.  
Victor the third Pope is mentioned by Martinus Polonus to haue ben poisoned by the malicious procurement of the Emperour Henry the third, 
The death of Victor the Pope not agreed vpon.  because he stood in defence of Gregory the seventh, whom the Emperour so much hated and persecuted. Vincentius holdeth contrary opinion, that he dyed of a dysentery, as Platina reciteth.  
Touching king John of England, 
diverse opinions of king Iohns death.  they that writ that he was poisoned in a drinking cup by monks, themselves make no better then a fable of it: and who so ever writ it refer themselves to hearesaie, and to the popular famed. The author of your acts and monuments reporteth, that many opinions are among the chronicle writers of his death. For some writ that he died for sorrow and heaviness of hart, as Polydorus: some of surfeiting in the night, as Radulphus Niger: some of a bloody flix, as Roger Houeden: some of a burning ague, some of a cold sweat, some of eating apple, some of eating pears, some of plums, some of peaches, some by drinking of new sydar. Tell us for truth how he dyed, before ye burden the church with that fable. These evil acts for lack of worse matter, ye are glad to rehearse against the estimation that Christen men haue in their hartes toward the church of Christ and ecclesiastical persons, which no man can say for certainty, whether any such were ever done or no. And be it they were done, yet is it materia facti, non juris, and the catholic faith, which ye labour by all means to impugn, thereby is no white disproved. As ye procede in your malicious railing against the Pope, ye spit out your poison, demanding certain questions, short in words, but full stuffed with false and cankered slanders.  

apology  What is he( say ye) at this day, which alloweth the mightiest kings and monarchs of the world to kiss his blessed feet?  

Confutation.  It is he( say we) that humbly for his own person refuseth such honour, that calleth and thinketh himself, servum juramentum Dei, the seruant of the servants of God. But when he seeth the great powers and Princes of the world humble themselves to Christ, Lord of all lords and king of all kings, in the person of him whose vicar on earth he is and chief deputy in those things that be to Godward: 

The humble service of princes in kissing the Popes feet for good cause suffered not demanded. Platina in vita Adriani.  
Great princes kissing of the Popes feet is often and ancient example.  
To what purpose serveth the Porphyry stool of casement in lateran at the Popes creation.  
See before. fo. 167. apology   not unmindful what he is of himself, for the romes sake that he beareth, and for his honour whose Vicegerent he is, the rather also for example of humility and obedience so to be taken and learned of others of inferior degree: he suffereth that honour to be done, which is more then a more man can require. Neither is this the pride of Popes at these dayes only, as ye object, but the example of such humility in princes we can prove to be ancient.  
The great king charlemagne who afterward was create Emperour could not be withholden by the Pope Adrian the first, but at the first meeting he would kiss his feet. Many other Emperours and kings haue of old time done likewise. And lest the certainty of such honour exhibited unto him should in his own conceit lift him higher then for the degree of humane condition, to that purpose serveth the stool of natural easement at his creation, whereof your surmise is very vile, to temper the highnes of that vocation with the base consideration of humane infirmities and necessities.  
What is he( say you) that commandeth the Emperour to go by him at his horse bridle, and the French king to hold his stirrup?  
What he is we know not, 
Confutation. Examples of the Emperours and French kings humility towards the Pope. The notable humilie of Constantine the great in going by the Pope at his horse bridle.  nor you neither Sir Defender. This we know, that in these words most impudently you belie the Pope. For never was there Pope that commanded either French king or Emperour to do the service you speak of. Part of that I haue readen pertaining hereunto, I will here recite.  
The worthiest and greatest prince that ever was in earth, Constantine the great to witness openly the reverence which he bare in his hart to Christ our saviour, and to S. Peter, whose successor the Pope is, as li●ewise Christes vicar in earth, disdained not to honour S. sylvester Pope in his time, with doing the office of a foot man to him, and with leading his horse by the bridle. Wherein he seemeth, as first of all Emperours he professed the faith of Christ openly, so first of all Princes to haue given to the posterity an example of humility. That no man doubt of it, this much I find recorded by an old father of the greek church, Matthaeus Hieromonachus, as uttered by Constantine himself. {αβγδ}. Which in english is this much. Submitting ourself to the office of a foot man, and holding his horse by the bridle, we lead him forth out of his sacred palace, in the worship and reverence of S. Peter.  
That sithence both Emperours and French kings of humility and devotion, and to witness their humble obedience to Christ in his vicar, haue done the like service, yea though the Pope shewed himself never so unwilling thereto: we find it reported in sundry good records. But that he ever commanded any such service to be done unto him, ye can never show it by any indifferent and credible witness. Paulus Aemylius an Italian of Verona in the second book of his Chronicles, which both diligently and eloquently he wrote of france, 
king Pipines humility.  describeth how honourably Pipine that worthy king of france received steven the pope, that succeeded Zacharias, when he came into his realm. He both kissed his feet, and went by him at his horse bridle. look in the place before alleged, there ye shall find these words. Pipinus ad tertium à Cariasiaco oppido lapidem obuiam Pontifici progressus, 
Lib. 2.  pedes( vt ferunt) exosculatus, coerceri non potuit, quin in equo sedentem ipse pedibus ad frenum prosecutus in Regiam deduceret. As much to say in english. Pipine went forth to meet the Pope three miles from the town of Cariasiacum. There kissed his feet( as they say) and could not be withholden, but that he would needs go a foot by him at his horse bridle as he was a horse back, and so led him unto the court,  
The like honour of holding the stirrup would Charles the fifth the late great Emperour haue done at Bononia to Pope Clement the seventh, 
The humility of Charles the fifth Emperour towards the Pope. S●i temp. Lib. 27.  had not the Pope with much ado put him from it. Whereof thus writeth Paulus divinus. Conscendenti equum Pontifici, Caesar ad laeuam pedes astitit, uti benign auratam staffam sacrato pedi protinus inducturus. said pium Caesaris obsequium, Pontificis humanitas, religiosáque modestia superauit. As the Pope was mounting on his horse, the Emperour stood on the left side by him a foot, as being forthwith ready gently to put the gilted stirrup on his sacred foot. But the Popes humanity, and religious modesty prevailed, that the Emperour should not do that devout service. Many other the like examples of the same humble service done by great work to the Popes, could I here rehearse, but these two may now suffice.  
Who hurled under his table francis Dandalus the Duke of Venis king of Creta and cypress, 
apology. Sabellicus.  fast bound with chains to feed of bones among his dogges?  
Were not this Defender passed all shane, 
Confutation.  he would not make so many and so shameless lies. Malice hath so far blinded him, that he seemeth not to see, what becometh a man. Though he fear not to be accounted a liar, yet he should be loth to be accounted an unhonest man, yea and specially a fool. Let truth and honesty go, for in dede there is title in these fellows: what foolishness is it a man to bring all his doctrine and all his sayings, touching things that he would so fain to be believed, into so great and certain discredit by such open and manifest lies? The truth hereof is this, 
Sabellicus Decadis. 2. li. 1. 1220. Historiae rerum venetarum. lib. 4.  as I find it witnessed in Sabellicus and in the chiefest Chronicles the Venetians haue, written by a noble man of Venis name Petrus justinianus. The city of Venis being interdicted of the Pope, francis Dundalus was sent by the duke and lords of the council there, to sue for absolution. At that time was he neither king of Creta, nor of cypress, nor duke of Venis, as it pleaseth this lying Defender to writ of him, and that in the defence of their english church written to all the world, joannes Superantius then was Duke, 
A stratagem of francis Dandalus ambassador to the Pope from the signory of Venis.  and this francis Dandalus was but a private man for that time, as others there were. This ambassador francis Dandalus finding the Pope at his first coming not well inclined to grant his petition as he wished, the quality of the offence deserving the same: to move him to clemency and pity, advised with himself to play this pageant. He caused an iron chain to be tied about his neck. Therewith he came to the Pope as he sate at dinner. Put himself to creep on all four, and like a dog laid him down under the table, so long until the Popes displeasure being assuaged, he obtained pardon for his country. Whereof they say he had afterward the surname of dog given him, as justinianus writeth. Who desireth to see the whole story, he shall find it well written by the said Petrus justinianus, 
five notable lies made in one short sentence.  historiae rerum venetarum libro quarto. Now let us see sir Defender, how many lies you make in one sentence. 
1. lie.  That francis Dandulus was by the Pope hurled under his table, this is one lie. 
2. lie.  That he was then Duke of Venis, king of Creta and Cipres, there be two lies, beside the notable lie, you seem to be very ignorant of the state of Venis, in that you make the duke an ambassador, who being once created duke, goeth not out of the city. Neither is ever any of their state king of Candy and Cipres. For their state admitteth none to be a king among them, how be it at the time of francis Dandulus Candy rebelled, and Cipres was not yet come to be under the government of the Venetians, as you might haue learned in the eloquent history that Petrus Bembus wrote of Venis his country. 
3. lie.  That he was fast bound with chains, there be three lies. For he was not fast bound, only he had cast a chain about his own neck, which he might haue taken of at his pleasure. 
4. lie.  That he was so thrown under the table to gnaw bones among the Popes dogges, there be four lies. 
5. lie.  And that the Pope had dogges feeding of bones under his table, I doubt not but it is an other lie. Whether these five lies be not enough for one little sentence of three lines, I report me to whosoever of your own fellowes lieth for the best game. I think verily this Defender if he be not very shameless, wisseth he had a thicker beard to hid his slike cheeks from blushing. Such false causes must be defended by lying proctors. If they belied storries only, and taught not also false doctrine in the chief points of our faith, their lying were less hurtful.  
Who set the imperial crown vpon the Emperour Henry the sixth his head, not with his hand, but with his foot, 
apology  and with the same foot again cast the same crown of, 
Caelestinus Papa.  saying with all he had power to make Emperours, and to vnmake them again at his pleasure?  
We deny that Celestinus, 
Confutatation. A very vain fable imagined against Celestinus the Pope.  whom you note in your books margin, or any other Pope did this. It is a vain fable devised rather of malice, then wit. Ye should haue done well to show us, with which foot the Pope did set on the crown vpon Henries head, the right or the left, standing, sitting, lening, or lying, barefooted, and using the help of his great to, or shod, whether he had some iymme iamme made for him to take it up, hold it, and put it on handsomely, or conueyd it on by a 'vice, or how it was done. Mary the casting of it from his head is sone conceived. For the Emperour might come with his crown on his head, and kneel or stoupe down so low before the Pope, as he standing vpon one foot, might strike it of with the tother, and so play at foot ball with the imperial crown. Ah maisters, that ye seek to defend your naughty causes with vain matters, and bring the church in contempt with such childish tales, which be so foolish as scarcely any old sottish beldame sitting idle by the fire would tell children. The seeking out of these vain things, as it sheweth your malice, so it bewrayeth your weakness, and declareth how little ye haue to charge the Pope with all.  
Who put in arms Henry the son against the emperour his 
apology  father Henry the fourth, and wro●●●t so that the Father was taken prisoner of his own son, 
Hildebrand Papa  and being shorne and shamefully handled, was thrust into a monastery, where whith hunger and sorrow he pined away to death.  

Confutation.  It was not the Pope that armed Henry the second against Henry the fourth, who by thaccompt of some is Henry the third. Stories declare other causes of their falling out, and the more part of the writers impute it to the iudgement of God, for punishment of his great wickedness. After that he was overcome with all his power by the Saxons, in seuentin dayes he durst not to appear abroad. In the mean time his son took vpon him forthwith the administration of the Empire, went into italy with an army, would not surrender the state which he liked well, his father being therewith offended he took prisoner without any motion of the Pope, with whom he was also at variance, and committed him to strait custody. The Pope then being who was Gregory the seventh, only excommunicated him, 
Henry the father taken by Henry the son and committed to prison at Leodium.  as he had just cause so to do. For contempt whereof it may be thought he sped never the better. By report of all writers he was kept in prison at Leodium by commandment of his own son, where he overthrew him in battle, and there sone after of anguish of mind he died. That he was shorne and thrust into a monastery, and there starved with hunger and sorrow, it is a very vain lie. Who listeth to read, what a man this Emperour Henry the fourth was, how far his martial virtues were underneath his great vices, him I refer to jo. baptista Egnatius. Romanorum Principum, lib. 3.  

Hildebrand, gregory the seventh t●a●●s ●o evil repo●ted of by the gospelers, by the truer histories is mentioned to haue ben a very worthy Pope.  Concerning gregory the seventh Pope, who before was called Hildebrandus, whom that Emperour with endless malice persecuted, because he would not ratify his simoniacal making of Bishops and giving of ecclesiastical benefice, and defended the church against his wicked attempts: beside sundry writers of histories in that time, as Lambertus Schafnaburgensis. lo Hostiensis, and afterward, Otho Frisingensis, who so much commend him for sundry excellent virtues: no man hath so largely and so diligently set forth his worthiness, as Onuphrius Panuinius, who hath written of him five books,  
Who so ilfauoredlye and monstrouslye put the Emperour Frederikes neck under his feet, 
apology  and as though that were not sufficient, added further this text out of the psalms: 
Innocenti Papa 3.  Thou shalt go vpon the Adder and cockatrice, and shalt tread the lion and Dragon under thy feet? such an example of scorninge and contemninge a Princes majesty, as never before this was heard tell of in any remembrance, except I ween, either of Tamerlanes the king of Scithia a wild and barbarous creature, or else of sapour king of the Persians. All these notwithstanding were Popes, all Peters successors, all most holy fathers, whose several words wee must take to be as good as several Gospels.   

THE EIGHT CHAPTER.  
Ye ask who put the Emperour Frederikes neck under his feet, &c. verily, who it was, I know not, 
Confutation. That a Pope trod on the neck of an Emperour name fredrick, it is a very false fable.  neither yourselves I believe. In the margin of our ladies translation, and in your latin book first printed in London, I find the name of Innocentius. 3. in that of your mans translation, Innocentius. 8. is noted. Your latin books printed among the Huguenots of france haue the name of Alexander. 3. so it appeareth ye know not who it was. By likelihood ye found this lie, where many other be of this sort, in friar Bale your worthy doctor, or in friar Barns de vitis Pontificum, where be mo lies then leaves, or in Illyricus, or in Petrus Paulus Vergerius. In some such gospelling bodger or other ye found it doubtless. I think ye shall never be able to avouch it by any grave writer. If ye allege either heretic, or schismatic of that time, or any one that held with the Emperour against the see of Rome, remember ye the whole matter is discredited by the partiality of such a reporter. But what if ye bring good authority for it? So far as any man doth evil, be he Pope, be he bishop, emperour or king, or what so ever he be, we defend him not. Popes themselves be men, and do not at all times behave themselves like angels. But what is that to your purpose? Our matter is questio juris non facti, once more I must tell it you. And if that were a fault in the Pope, we acknoweledge it to be as Tertullian saith, 
prescription. contra haeretic●s. faults found in life do not prejudicate authority.  vitium conversationis, non predicationis. The fault of conversation, not of doctrine preached. faults found in life do not preiudicat the authority either of office or of doctrine. But concerning this fact, I think verily, there was n●uer no such thing done, as you tell it. Platina sheweth that fredrick kissed the Pope Alexander the third his foot at Venis in the entry of S. marks church, and saith never a word of that for which ye make so much ado. If there were any such thing done, besides that it hurteth not our cause, it remaineth that ye prove it, and that by such witnesses, as the suspicion of partiality may not blemish their credite.  
All these( though ye scoff never so much) were Popes, all were Peters successors, and notwithstanding any thing that ye can say against them to the contrary without making a lie, all were holy fathers. But their several words we be not bound to esteem for so good as several gospels. never the less their public decrees we aclowledge and reverence, 
An observation for trial of truth concerning things reported by the Popes.  and think they ought to be obeied.  
For a reasonable and true answer to be made to sundry evil matters objected to the Popes, it is to be considered, in what Emperours time each one lived, which is burdened with any thing that deserveth reproof. For sometimes the Emperours favoured not the Popes, for that they withstood their unlawful requests, and revoked them( so far as they could) from their ungodly attempts. 
Wicked Emperours enemies to the Popes. The flatterers of wicked Emperours commonly haue reported untruths of good Popes to serve the humour of the times they lived in.  Of which the chief were Henry the third, the fourth, the fifth, the sixth, fredrick the first, the second, and Ludouicus of Bauaria. As these were great Princes, and such as oftentimes used lust for reason, and will for lawe: so had they flatterers, who for worldly preferment served their evil desires, praised their wicked acts, and spake evil of good Popes, that sought their amendment. Among them some haue not only spoken evil words of the Popes of their time, which passed away, as all words do: but also committed to writing their evil reports of them, which remain. Which they did rather to serve the time, and procure themselves favour in those courts, then that themselves thought the things to be true, which they burdened thē with al. again when so ever lewd priestes in any country were restrained of their ungodly lusts, and put from their Concubines, whom they called their wives, as our holy gospelers do, and when so ever any schism or heresy rose in the church: then were the Popes, who would not wink at the iniquity of their times, sure to be evil treated, to be railed at, to be openly reprehended and slandered in books. Now as for love commonly men praise some above the truth, so for hatred and evil will they blame many beyond desert. As the good nature believeth the one rather then the other, so the wise man little regardeth reproufes, when by examination of the occasions and circumstances, he findeth the grounds whereof they spring. Such examination well and truly made, I doubt not but to good and wisemen most of the evil matters, with which of these Defenders or any other the professors of the new gospel the successors of Peter are burdened, shall appear vain, false, and slanderous.  

apology  Yf we be counted traitors which do honour our Princes, which give them all obedience as much as is due to thē by gods word, and which do pray for them, what kind of men then bee these, which haue not onely done all the things before said, but also allow the same for specially well don? Do they then either this way instruct the people as we do, to reverence their magistrate: or can they with honesty appeach us as seditious personnes, breakers of the common quiet, and despisers of princes majesty?  
Truly we neither put of the yoke of obedience from us, neither do we disorder realms, neither do we set up or pull down kings, nor translate governements, nor give our kings poison to drink, nor yet hold to them our feet to be kissed, nor opprobriously triumphinge over them, leap into their necks with our feet.  

Confutation.  What need ye to speak of treason? Mistrust ye yourselves? Is your conscience guilty? It had ben better, ye had holden your peace. Now ye give men occasion in their hartes to charge you with that, whereof ye seem to finde yourselves guilty. As rats be commonly taken by occasion of their own noise, so workers of evil many times by untimely excuse of their gylt, and craking of their innocency, bewray themselves. Christ had not so sone said at his last supper, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me, 
Matth. 26.  wo be to that man &c. but Iudas, who knew himself guilty, which is specially noted of theuangelist, by and by took vpon him to say, as though he had ben guiltless, is it I master? Like unto Iudas, ye do, what in you lieth, to betray and crucify Christ again in his church, and his true members. As for princes that stand in your way, how obediently ye use yourselves towards them, the world seeth. Yet now to put from you the odious name of traitors, when no man chargeth you therewith, ye step forth malepertly, and say, that ye honour your princes, that ye pray for them, and that ye give them all obedience, as much as is due to them by Gods word, that is to say, so far a sit standeth with the furtherance of your gospel, your fleshly lusts, and pleasant liberty. And here your secretary taketh an occasion to range the filled as it were, and to show some copy of his eloquence, and largely to set forth the goodness of your doctrine, and your great obedience to the magistrates. Whereunto when he hath  told all his gay tale, a plain man might right aptly in few give this answer: Sir I could like well all that you say, if it were true.  
This rather is our profession, this is our doctrine, 
apology  that every soul of what calling soever he be, be he monk, bee he preacher, bee he prophet, bee he Apostle, ought to be subject to kings and magistrates: yea and that the Bishop of Rome himself, 
Chrysost. in 13. cap. ad Romanos.  unless he will seem greater then the evangelists, then the Prophetes, or the Apostles, ought both to aclowledge and to call the Emperour his Lord and master: which the old bishops of Rome, who lived in times of more grace, ever did. Our common teaching also is, 
Gregorius papa saepe in epist.  that we ought so to obey princes as men sent of God, and that who so withstandeth them, withstandeth Gods ordinance, This is our scolinge, and this is well to be sene both in our books and in our threatenings, and also in the manners and modest behaviour of our people.  
The doctrine of obedience appertaineth specially to subiectes. 
Confutation.  The Bishop of Rome sitting by due succession in the chaier of Peter, 
In what cases haue the Popes demeaned themselves as subiectes.  in spiritual causes can haue no superior. In temporal matters it may be, that in one age he hath acknowledged the Emperour, as the Lord of that province where he lived, as before Constantine all the Popes did live in subiection: and in an other age he may be lord thereof himself. 
In epistolis.  Likewise S. Gregory might call Mauritius his lord, either of courtesy, or of custom: and yet our holy father pus the fourth shall not be bound to do the like, in consideration that the custom hath long sense ben discontinewed. 
In matters of spiritual jurisdiction, the b. of Rome oweth obedience to no prince. Lib. 4. epistol. 34.  Neither did S. gregory by that title of honour prejudicate unto himself in any spiritual jurisdiction. For that name notwithstanding he governed the whole church, and complained that Maximus was made bishop of Salonae a city in Illyrico, without his authority, not regarding that Mauritius the Emperour was thought to haue willed it so to be done. And therefore he writeth to Constantia the Empresse, that for as much as neither he nor his deputy was made privy to it, that the thing had ben done, which never was done before by any of the Princes that were the Emperours prodecessours.  
Seing then our question is of the superiority in spiritual matters, what skilleth it whether for any other respect the Pope do salute the Emperour by the name of Lord, or else by the name of son? Is not the name of father and son more amiable between the shepherd and his sheep, and more convenient for our profession, then the high title of Lord and master? Concerning the virtue of obedience, how so ever ye boast of your goodly teaching, and of your holy scholing, of your books and of your threatenings: yet ye were not best to speak much of the manners and modest behaviour, either of yourselves or of your gospelling disciples, as your huguenots and others. Whose obedience I ween ye will confess, that ye haue no great cause to commend. 
Esai. 5.  Yet your faces are such, as for the preferment of your gospel ye will little stick to say, that good is evil and evil is good. sweet is bitter, and better is sweet. Light is darkness, and darkness is light.  

a  But where they say, we haue gon away from the unity of the catholic Church, 
apology  this is not onely a matter of malice, but besides, though it bee most untrue yet hath it some show and apparance of trouth. For the common people and ignorant multitude give not credit alone to things true and of certainty, but even to such things also, yf any chance, which may seem to haue but a resemblance of trouth. Therefore we see that subtle and crafty persons, 
This toucheth yourselves.  when they had no truth on their side, haue ever contended and hotly argued with things likely to be true, to the intent they which were not able to espy the very ground of the matter, might be carried away at least with some pretence and probability thereof. 
b  In times past where the first Christians, our forefathers, in making their prayers to God, didd turn themselves towards the east, there were that said, they worshipped the sun, and reckoned it as God. 
c  again, where our forefathers said that as touching immortal and everlasting life, 
tertul. in Apol. c. 16.  they lived by no other means but by the flesh and blood of that lamb who was without spot, that is to say, of our saviour Iesus christ, the envious creatures and foes of Christes cross, whose only care was to bring Christian religion into slander by all manner of ways, made people beleeue, that they were wicked personnes, that they sacrificed mens flesh, and drunk mennes blood. Also 
d  where our forefathers said, that before God there is neither man nor woman, 
tertul. in Apologet. ca. 7. 8. 9.  nor for atteininge to the true richteousnes there is no distinction at all of personnes, and that they didde call one an other indifferentlye by the name of Sisters and Brothers, there wanted not men which forged false tales vpon the same, saying that the Christians made noe difference among themselves, either of age or of kind, but like brute beasts without regard had to do one with an other. 
tertul. in Apologet. 2.3.9.  And where for to pray and hear the gospel, they met often together in secret and byeplaces, because Rebelles sometime were wont to do the like. Rumors were every where spredd abroad howe they made privy confederacies, and counceled together either to kill the magistrates, or to subvert the common wealth. And where in celebratinge the holy mysteries, after Christs institution, they took bread and wine, they were thought of many not to worship christ, 
Augustinus.  but Bacchus and Ceres, forsomuch as those vain Goddes were worshipped of the Heathen in like sort, after a profane superstition, with bread and wine. These things were believed of many, not because they were true in dead( for what could be more untrue?) but because they were like to bee true, and through a certain shadow of truth might the more easily deceive the simplo. 
e  On this fashion likewise do these men slander us as heretics, and say that we haue left the Church and fellowship of christ: not because they think it is true, for they do not much force of that, but because to ignorant folk it might perhaps somwaye appear true.   

THE NINTH CHAPTER.  

a  That ye are gone from the unity of the catholic church, 
Confutation.  it is evident, and needeth no proof. Yea yourselves within a few sentences seem not obscurely to confess no less, and therefore ye ease us of labour to prove it. The imputing of it to you is not a matter of malice, as ye say, neither hath it only a show or appearance of trouth, but a very trouth itself.  

b  Though the Painymes, before our faith was well known, 
Thexamples of painymes to no purpose alleged.  believed that Christian people worshipped the sun, because they prayed to the Fast: 
c  that they sacrificed mens flesh and drunk their blood, 
d  and did many other strange and heinous things, in reckoning of which ye spend much time: what serveth that to your purpose? Infidels understood not the mysteries of our faith, and therefore reported of them far otherwise, then truth was. But what then? What conclude ye of all this?  

e  On this fashion( say ye) likewise do these men slander us as heretics, and say that we haue left the church and fellowship of Christ. I looked for a better matter and a greater reason. know ye not that your similitudes and comparisons make weak arguments? 
Similitudes make weak reasons.  We like them in your rhetoric, but now we require of you good logic. And now let us see by what logic ye will make good, that ye go about to prove: that is to say, that ye be not gone from the unity of the catholic church, that the church we profess ourselves to be of, is not the church of Christ, that the church hath ignorance, error, superstition, idolatry, mens inventions contrary to the scriptures, and that therefore ye had just cause to forsake the church, and to depart from our company.  

apology  Wee haue in deed put ourselves apart, not as heretics are woonte, from the church of Christ, but as all good men ought to do, from the infection of naughty persons and hypocrites. nevertheless in this point they triumph maruelouslye that they bee the church, that their church is Christes spouse, the pillar of truth, the ark of Noe, and that without it there is no hope of salvation. contrariwise, they say that wee bee ronnegates, that we haue torn Christes seat: that wee are plucked quite of from the body of christ, and haue forsaken the catholic faith. And when they leave nothing unspoken that may never so falsely and malitioslye be said against us, yet this one thing are they never able truly to say, that we haue swerved either from the word of God, or from the Apostles of Christ, or from the primitive church. surely wee haue ever judged the primitive church of Christes time, of the apostles, and of the holy Fathers to be the catholic Church: neither make we doubt to name it Noes ark, Christes spouse, the pillar and upholder of al truth: nor yet to fix therein the whole mean of our salvation. It is doubtless an odious matter for one to leave the fellowship whereunto he hath ben accustomend, and specially of those men, who though they be not, yet at least seem and be called Christians. And to say truly, we do not despise the church of these men( howe soever it be ordered by them now a dayes) partly for the name sake yt self, and partly for that the gospel of Iesu Christ hath once ben therein truly and purelye set forth. neither had we departed therefrom, but of very necessity, and much against our wils.  
We grant that in old time slanders were made vpon the faithful. 
Confutation.  But no like slander is made by us vpon you in the matter whereof ye speak. For let us grant, that ye haue in dede put yourselves a part, and are gone from the contagion of naughty persons and hypocrites: 
Though we were so evil as the Defenders report us to be, yet haue they no just cause to depart from us, and cut the church. Mat. 23.  This is the very thing we lay to your charge. For though we were such, as for a great number ye shall never be able to prove, yet by Christes own sentence ye must do that, which they that sit in the chair of Moses bid you do, although they be hypocrites, as the scribes and pharisees were, of whom Christ spake. We bid you not to follow the deeds of the bishops of Rome, albeit ye follow deeds of worse men. For never did so unclean a man sit in Peters chair, as martin Luther that filthy friar was, whose departing from Peter the rock ye follow. But it shal be enough for you to do, as the successors of Peter bid you to do, and so to follow their sayings, and not their doings. Now if because any of them haue ben an hypocrite or evil man, ye forsake their sayings: ye haue broken the rule of Christ, and are gone from his church.  

The Defenders vain reply against the crime of their schism.  To this ye reply, saying that ye are not gone from the word of God, nor from the Apostles of Christ, nor from the primitive church. As though the ten tribes of Israel going from the high bishop of jerusalem, did not thereby depart from Moses and Aaron and from Gods holy word, and all the holy scriptures. The primitive church is continued with our time, by the successors of S. Peter, for whose faith never to fail Christ prayed, 
luke. 22. joan. 21.  and whom only he made shepherd to feed all his flock of sheep and lambs. Now seing ye forsake the shepherd for the time being, ye forsake that primitive church, from whence he came. Were he not a wise traitor, who taking weapon against our sovereign Lady queen Elizabeth, would say he tarried in the obedience of king Henry the seventh, notwithstanding he fought against this present queen? 
3. Reg. 12.  Doubt ye not jeroboam made as much in words of Moses and Aaron, as ye do of Peter and Paul. And yet was he a schismatic for with drawing his own and his peoples obedience from the see of jerusalem. Christ now requireth of you not to obey Peter and Paul, but to obey him, who sitteth in their chair. Where ye say it is an odious matter to forsake us, and yet haue forsaken us, where ye confess that ye despise not the church we be of, and yet grant that ye haue departed from it: how standeth this together? Remember ye what ye say? know ye what ye do? Who will regard your word, which with one breath say and vnsaye? If it be odious, why do ye it? If ye despise not the church, why depart ye from it?  

a apology  But I put case, an idol be set up in the church of God, and the same desolation which Christ prophesed to come, stood openly in the holy place? What if some thief or pirat invade and possess Noes ark? These folkes as often as they tell us of the church, mean thereby themselves alone, and attribute all these titles to their own selves, boasting as they did in times past which cried, The temple of the lord, The temple of the lord: or as the Phariseis and Scribes did, which craked they were Abrahams children. Thus with a gay and iolie show deceive they the simplo, and seek to choke us with the very name of the church. much like as 
b  yf a thief, when he hath gotten into an other mans house, and by violence either hath thrust out or slain the owner, should afterward assign the same house to himself, casting forth of possession the right inheritor: Or yf 
c  Antichrist after he hath once entred into the Temple of God, should afterward say, This house is mine own, and Christ hath nothing to do withall. For these men now after they haue left nothing remaining in the church of God that hath any likeness of his Church, yet will they seem the patrons and the valiant maynteners of the church, very like as Gracchus amongst the romans stood in defence of the treasury, not withstanding with his prodigality and fond expenses he had utterly wasted the whole stock of the treasury. And yet was there never any thing so wicked or so far out of reason, but lightelye yt might be covered and defended by the name of the church. For the 
d  wasps also make honyecombes as well as Bees, and wicked men haue companies like to the church of God, yet for all that they be not streight wey the people of God which ar called the people of God: neither be they all Israelits asmany as ar come of Israel the father. The Arrians notwithstanding they were heretics, yet bragged they that they alone were catholics, calling all the rest now Ambrosians, now Athanasians, now Iohannites. And Nestorius, 
Augustinus in epi. 48. ad vincent.  as saith Theodorete, for all he was an heretic, yet covered he himself , that is to weete, with a certain cloak and colour of the true and right faith. Ebion though he agreed in opinion with the samaritans, yet as saith Epiphanius, he would be called a Christian. The Mahomytes at this day, for all that all histories make plain mention, and themselves also cannot deny, but they took their first beginning of Agar the bondewoman, yet for the very name and stocks sake, choose they rather to be called Saracenes, as though they came of Sara the free woman and Abrahams wife. So likewise the false Prophetes of all ages which stood up against the Prophetes of God, which resisted Esayas, Ieremye, Christ, and the Apostles, at no time craked of any thing so much, as they did of the name of the Church. And for no neither cause did they so fiercely vex them and call them Ronneawayes and Apostatas, then for that they forsook their fellowship, and kept not thordinaunces of the Elders: 
e  wherefore yf we would follow the judgements of those men only, who then governed the church, and would respect nothing else neither God nor his word, yt must needs bee confessed, that the Apostles were rightly and by just lawe condemned of them to death, because they fell from the Byshops and Priestes, that is you must think, from the catholic church: and because they made many new alterations in Religion contrary to the bishops and Priestes wills, yea and for all their spurninge so ernestlye against it?  

Confutation.  For lack of a better shift, this Defender is here driven to put a case, that an idol be set up, and that some thief or pirate possess Noes ark and bear rule. But him we answer and say. sir what he is, you must leave that unto God, 
Rom. 14.  who is his master, to him he standeth or falleth. Ye are commanded to obey, and not to judge before your time. And what a foolish putcase, and what a fond whatif is that, to say, what if a pirate invade the ark of Noe? As though God sate not at the stern and had the helm in his own hand. 
God ruling the ship, the loss of the ship is not to be feared.  Or as though if God suffered an usurper to govern the ship, therefore ye would drown yourselves? If the master and also the mariners be evil men, will ye therefore cast yourselves into the sea? know ye not that there is no way to escape drowning so long as we row in the seas of this world, without the ship of Noe, that is to say, the church?  

b  Ye imagine that we haue cast the true Lord out of the house, and haue made forcible entrance into possession of the same. That yourselves haue so done, we can show evidently. We can tell, what day ye entred, whose churches and houses ye invaded, never built by you nor by any of your religion. But name the day or year, that we invaded any house of yours. Yea name any house for religion or church of yours in all the world, which is fifty yeres old. Do not yourselves here aclowledge that your title came in with Luther and Zuinglius? What need we invade your houses? show us in all England one chapel of your setting up, among so great a number of fair churches ye haue thrown down, erected of us and our forefathers.  

c  Antichrist can not sit in the temple of God, until the vicar of Christ, who keepeth possession, be thrown out, and then will Christ come with his angels to destroy the wicked man with the breath of his mouth. 
2. Thess. 2.  Ye that are the herbingers of antichrist, are not yet able to cast out the lieutenant of Christ. Ye heave at the vnderministers. 
mat. 24.  Your master will accomplish all iniquity, and he shalbe the desolation that Christ spake of. We understand, what ye shoot at. But ye are ashamed to utter plainly your blasphemy. Ye would say( as it may seem) if ye durst, that Christ is the desolation, and that Antichrist is the true God. In effect I do not greatly bely you. For if the blessed sacrament of the altar, be no other thing then the very body and blood of Christ, in case that seem to you the desolation spoken of, do ye not make Christ the idol, and consequently Antichrist the true God? Let any that hath but common sense weigh your blasphemy, and forethink, whither this gospel of yours tendeth. What ye speak of the 
d  wasps, of the Arians, of Nestorius, of Ebion, of the Mahometans, of the false prophetes in the time of the old lawe, we return it all back again vpon you. It pertaineth to you, not to vs. Like as scoldes do, ye prevent the crimes we might lawfully object unto you. Your comparison 
e  of yourselves with the Apostles, and of us with the false prophetes, hath no ground, reason, nor scripture. It is but your railing talk, which we set little by.  
Neither if the Apostles might go from the bishops of Moses lawe, therefore may ye depart from the vicar of Christ. For the lawe of Moses is changed, and the priesthood of Aaron is transferred, but the lawe and priesthood of Iesus Christ tarrieth for ever, 
Psal. 109.  as david said. Thou art priest for ever according to the order of Melchisedech. Ye hault to manifestly. every reason ye endeavour to make, returneth vpon your own head, like childrens arrows which they shoot against hard boards. Let him that departeth beware how he depart. 
Matth 4.  Christ saith Nolite exire, Go ye not out. And S. John describing heretics, 
1. joan. 2.  saith, exierunt ex nobis, they be gone out from vs. Ye grant ye are gone out, we must needs conclude, that ye be heretics.  

apology  Wherefore like as it is written that Hercules in old time was forced in striving with Antaeus that huge giant, to lift him quiter up from the earth that was his Mother ere he could conqueere him, even so must our aduersaries be heaved from their Mother, that is from this vain colour and shadow of the church, wherewith they so disguise and defend themselves, otherwise they can not bee brought to yield unto the word of God. And therefore saith Ieremye the prophet, Make not such great boast that the Temple of the lord is with you, this is but a vain confidence, for these are lies. The angel also saith in the Apocalyps. They say they be Iewes, but they be the synagogue of satan. And Christ said to the pharisees when they vaunted themself of the kindred and blood of Abraham: 
John. 8.  Ye are of your father the devil, for you resemble not your father Abraham, asmuch to say, ye are not the men ye would so fain be called, ye beguile the people with vain titles, and abuse the name of the church, to the overthrowing of the Church.  

Confutation. Our persons may be divided from our churches by power of men, as Antaeus was by Hercules lifted up from the ground, but our hartes from the communi●n of the catholic church can not be divided.  Concerning your fable of Hercules and Antaeus, as ye are far unlike to Hercules,( for he destroyed monsters and ye breed monsters both in doctrine and manners) so neither can we be removed from the faith of the catholic church, as Antaeus was lifted up from his mother the earth. And as, although Hercules by force kept that giants body from his mother, yet was he not able to keep his heart and desire from her: so well may ye by power of the sword keep our persons from our churches and benefice and from doing the duties that belong to our spiritual charge: but our hartes and wills from thence, and the desire and consent of our spirit from the communion of the catholic church, and our mouths from confession of the faith thereof, which is the true church of God dispersed through the world, not a colour or shadow of the church, as your blasphemous tongue uttereth, heave at us whiles ye will and whiles ye may, ye shall never remove. In which steadfastness we trust to stand by Gods grace to the last breath. heave at us with all forces of your cunning, of your malice, of your flattery, of your policies, and with what so ever ingens ye haue: ye shall never be able to overthrow the house of our consciences builded vpon the sure rock. 
Matthaei. 7.  Let the gourders of rain come down from you and all other heretics, 
The Defenders objections returned vpon thē again.  let the floods of worldly rages thrust, let the winds of Sathans temptations blow their worst, this house shall not be overthrown. leave to shoot the weak arrows of your slender rhetoric at this house. They pierce not the strong walls, they rebounde back upon yourselves again. For behold that which ye took out of the quiver of ieremy, 
Ierem. 7.  of the apocalypse, and of the gospel, we shoot back again vpon you. For with that prophet for good cause we tell you, make not such great boast, that the temple of the Lord is with you, or rather the word of the Lord is with you, for of that much ye crack. As for the temples, full little ye regard them. This is but a vain confidence, for these are lies. With the angel also we say of you. They say they be Iewes, 
Apocal. 2.  but they be the synagogue of satan. And with Christ we tell you that which he told the pharisees, 
joan. 8.  ye are of your father the devill, and the lusts of your father ye will do. That is to say, ye are not the men ye bear the world in hand ye be. Your tongue speaketh of the gospel, and for gospelers you would be taken, your life is contrary to the gospel, your deeds show you to be the enemies of the gospel. The Lord the Lord, the word of God, and the spirit of God is much in your mouth. Were the fear of our Lord in your hart, were it the word of God in dede ye talk so much of, were it the spirit of God ye pretend to haue, ye would show more virtue and holiness of life, less iniquity and following of pleasures. More truth in common life and doctrine, less lying and fewer errors: a further mortification of the outward man, and less satisfying of the unclean lusts of the flesh. To be short, like practised ministers of Antichrist, with false titles, with colours of holy zeal, and with deceitful pretence of Gods word and the spirit, ye beguile the people, and bring them quiter from the fear of God to satan, from the truth to errors, from virtue to all kind of sins.  

apology  So that these mens parte had ben first to haue clearly and truly proved that the romish church is the true and right instructed church of God, and that the same, as they do order it at this day, doth agree with the primitive church of Christ, of the Apostles, and of the holy Fathers, wihche we doubt not but was in dede the true catholic Church.   

THE TENTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation. The roman church is the true church. And to communicat with the roman church, is to hold thunitie of the catholic church. luke. 22. Rom. 1. Lib. 4. Epist. 8.  Ye would us to prove that the roman church, is the true church of God. Ye grant that once it was the true church of God. And the gospel sheweth that Christ prayed for it in S. Peter, who made his successors there. What followeth hereof, but that it must needs abide as true as ever it was, except Christes prayer were not heard? S. Paul likewise witnesseth, that the roman faith is preached in the universal world, giving a manifest prophecy, that the roman faith and the catholic faith should be all one. S. Cyprian calleth the agreeing with the bishop of Rome and communicating with him, catholilicae ecclesiae unitatem, &c. the allowing and firm holding of the unity of the catholic church. And writing to Antonianus in the same book, he accounteth it for one thing, to communicate with Cornelius the bishop of Rome, and to communicate with the catholic church. For you it is vain to say, that it hath erred, when the holy ghost hath signified, that it can not err.  
Now whereas your departure from the communion of the church is none otherwise excusable, but so far as ye can prove the same either to be no church, or to be without all doubt in perilous error: Let us see, how ye prove either of both, your words by these.  
For our partes yf we could haue judged ignorance, 
apology  error superstition, idolatry, mennes inventions, and the same commonly disagreinge with the holy Scriptures, either pleased God, or to be sufficient for thobtaininge everlasting salvation, or yf we could assertaine ourselves that the word of God was written but for a time only, and afterward again ought to be abrogated and put away, or else that the sayings and commandments of God ought to be subject to mans will, that whatsoever God saith and commandeth, exceptt the bishop of Rome willeth and commandeth the same, it must be taken as voided an unspoken. Yf we could haue brought ourselves to believe these things, we grant there had ben no cause at all why we should haue left these mennes company.  
God forbid that either ye or any Christen man should judge, that ignorance, error, superstition, idolatry, 
Confutation.  mens inventions contrary to the scriptures, either pleased God, 
slanderous lying without mean or reason.  or to be sufficient to salvation. because ye lay this to the ca holike church, we can say nolesse of you, but that ye be false liars, and devilish slanderers. And who teacheth, that Gods word was written but for a time only? That his commandments be subject to mans will? That Gods sayings and precepts be voided, except the bishop of Rome ratify them? Here would I say unto you at least, fie for shane, but that I think I should prevail no more, then if I said to an impudent and common harlot, fie for shane. Who may not plainly see, 
Ierem. 3.  the scripture verified on you, Frons mulieris meretricis facta est vobis? Ye haue gotten to you the impudent face of an harlot. But for answer to your last sentence of this paragraph, If ye find no just cause( as hitherto ye haue not) why ye should burden the catholics with these things, ye must needs aclowledge the gilded of your own consciences, and grant that in dede there was no cause why ye should haue cut of yourselves from our communion and society.  

apology  As touching that we haue now don, to depart from that church, whose errors were proved and made manifest to the world, which Church also had already evidently departed from Gods word, and yet not to depart so much from itself, as from therrours therof, and not to do this disorderly, or wickedly, but quietly and sobrelye we haue done nothing herein against the doctrine either of Christ or of his Apostles. For neither is the Church of God such as it may not be dusked with some spot, 
In Consil. Lateranens. sub julio. 2.  or asketh not sometime reparation: else what needeth there so many assemblies and councils, without the which, as saith Egidius, the Christian faith is not able to stand? For look saith he, howe often councils are discontinued, so often is the Church destitute of Christ.   

THE ELEVENTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation. The Defenders confess their departing from the church.  That ye haue now done as heretics be wont to do, that is departed from the church, ye confess. But that the errors of the church haue ben proved and made manifest to the world, and that the same is evidently departed from Gods word: so ye say and belie the church, but where be your proofs? Because ye prove it not, nor ever shal be able to prove it, in going from the church ye haue done wickedly. That the church may and is sometime dusked with the mists of ignorance, in some particular persons, and smutted with spots of evil life, and therefore requireth oftentimes a redress we grant: but that the whole church, for whom Christ prayed to his father for the heavenly conforter to be given unto her, being his dere spouse, the spirit of truth, 
joan. 14. Mat. ult.  to remain with her for ever, with whom he promised to be all dayes until the worlds end: that his church in points of our faith necessary to salvation erreth, we deny it, and vpon warrant of Christes promise, we tell it you all assuredly, ye shall never be able to prove it.  
councils are kept, and bishops be made by the same providence of God, which provideth partly by that means, and partly by other, that the roman faith, chair, and rock, shall stand for ever. 
Lib. 1. epist. 3. That the roman church erreth not.  Ad quos( saieth S. Cyprian speaking of them of Rome) perfidia non potest habere accessum: to the which unfaithfulness can not haue access. He saith not only, shall not haue access, but can not haue access. Which many other holy and learned doctors haue written, as ye may see in the places where the catholics do treat of the supremacy, for it were to great an excourse to handle so copious an argument at this time. Neither saith that learned and eloquent man Egidius Viterbiensis in his oration at the council of lateran kept under Iulius the second, 
Eg●dius untruly alleged by the Defenders.  that without assemblies and councils the Christen faith is not able to stand. For though they be a remedy against errors and heresies rising up, yet the faith should stand and continue, if there were none, and before any were assembled, the faith stood in force. In dede he saith, that when councils haue discontinewed, we haue sene the divine spouse left alone of her spouse. Whereby he meaneth not an utter forsaking and destitution of the church, 
Mat. 28.  for Christ hath promised to be with his church to the worlds end: but a present and evident help for so much as seemeth to mans sight, and therefore he useth the word vidimus, we haue sene, not that it was so in dede, but that it appeared so to man. And that to be his meaning the circumstance of the place, and the next words that follow do sufficiently show: for there he allegeth the words of Christ, 
joan. 16.  which he spake a little before his resurrection, iam modicum& non videbitis me. Now a little while, and ye shall not see me. Whereby Christ meant not that he would utterly go from them and forsake them, but that for a while, he would so withdraw his visible presence from them, as they should not haue him with them in such sort as before. This sense yet Egidius sheweth more plainly by an other place alleged. Vidimus Christum in nauicula obdormientem, we haue sene Christ a sleep in the boat. As we haue not in dede sene Christ a sleep in the church Peters ship, neither now sleapeth he at all, but by his providence always watcheth over his church, though for lack of present help, we imagine him to haue left us alone, and to be as it were a slepe: so neither is the church destitute of Christ, when councils be discontinewed. But so it appeareth to men, whom it grieveth to see help and redress of things that be amiss, so long differred.  
Or yf there be no peril that harm may come to the church, what need is there to retain to no purpose the names of Byshops, as is now commenlye used among them? For yf there be no sheep that may strey, why be they called shepherds? Yf there be no city that may be betrayed, why be they called watchmen? Yf there be nothing that may ronne to ruin, why be they called pillars? anon after the first creation of the world the church of God began to spread abroad, and the same was instructed with the heavenly word, which God himself pronounced with his own mouth. It was also furnished with divine ceremonies. It was taught by the spirit of God, by the patriarchs and Prophetes, and continued so even till the time that christ shewed himself to us in the flesh. This notwithstanding, how often o good God, in the mean while, and howe horribly was the same church darkened and decayed?   

THE TWELFTH CHAPTER.  
Here ye lay together all that ever ye can say, 
Confutation. whom do these Defenders follow in holding opinion, that thuniuersall church erreth. Lib. 1. aduersus Cataphryg. Lib. 5. eccle. hist. ca. 16. Lib. de profane. Noua●.  for proof that the whole church erreth, for so ye mean we know well, for that particular members err, it is not denied. And in this wickedness ye follow Montanus the heretic, who persuaded his scholars, to give no reverence to the church that is on earth, as Appollinaris and Eusebius do witness of him. Nestorius affirmed, that the whole church erred, and followed ignorant and erroneous doctors, as Vincentius Lirinensis writeth. So the image-breakers said the church erred in setting up Images, as we find in the seventh general council, actione sexta. How the Donatistes and Rogatians condemned the authority of the church, S. Augustine declareth epistola. 48. ad Vincentium. 50. ad Bonifacium. 161. ad Honoratum, and in sundry other places. So did wickliff, so did Luther, and those be your fathers, whom ye haue followed.  
But to make a short answer to your slender objections, thus we say. Bishops and foresees haue ben ordained by Christ, and the same be pillars, not for that else the church should be in peril, and stray, and fall down, but because God hath appointed bishops, foresees, and pillars, having special care of his church: therefore shall the church be saved from danger and harm, from wandering and straying, from ruin and falling. Now come ye in with your scriptures, whereby ye would prove, the church may err, fail, and haue the light quiter put out. And thus ye say.  
Where was that church then, 
apology  when all flesh vpon earth had defiled their own way? 
Gen. 6.  where was it when amongst the nombre of the whole world there were onely eight persons( and they neither all chast and good) whom Gods will was should be saved alive from that universal destruction and mortality? 
3. Reg. 13.  When Ely the prophet so lamentably and byterly made mone, that only himself was left of all the whole world which did truly and duly worship God? 
Esai. ●.  And when Esay said, The silver of Goddes people( that is of the church) was become dross: and that the same city which a foretime had ben faithful, was now become an harlot, and that in the same was no part sound through out the whole body from the head to the foot? Or else when Christ himself said, that the house of God was made by the pharisees and Pristes a den of thieves? 
Matth.  Of a trouth, the Church even as a cornefield except it be ared, manured, tilled and trimmed, in stede of wheat, it will bring forth thystles, darnel and netilles. For this cause did God sand ever among both Prophetes and Apostles, and last of all his own Son, who might bring home the people into the right way, and repair a new, the tottering church after she had erred.  

Confutation.  These and the like places haue ben already alleged of old time against the catholics, by the Donatistes, as S. Augustine sheweth, and of late yeres by your scoolemaister John calvin of Geneua. We need not to study for new answers to the argument made out of these and such other places, much fitter for this purpose then these are, sith that the same is so well answered by S. Augustine. 
Lib. de unitate ecclesiae. cap. 12.  Oftentimes( saith he) Gods word rebuketh the wicked sorts of the church so, as though all were such, and none at all remained good. For thereby we are warned, them in their certain number to be called all, as much to say, all the children of hell. These men therfore do either unskilfully, or guilefully, in that they gather such places out of the scriptures, which haue ben spoken either against evil ones evermore mingled with the good unto the end, or of the destruction of the people of Iewes, that were before the Christians, and will violently wrest them against the church of God, that it might seem as though it had failed, and were utterly undone through all the world. This far S. Augustine. So that this is the sense of so many such places, that because the good be so few in comparison of the evil, as they seem to be none: the scripture under one speech reprehendeth the whole people together, albeit some be good.  
But sirs, what if the church at the beginning of the world, and at the general drowning was of small number? And what if the synagogue were sometime quiter extinquished? Must it therefore follow, that the church also after that God hath given to Christ his son the ends of the world to be his possession, may now be brought to a few, 
Psal. 2.  and to fail altogether? And behold howe true it is that S. Augustine now alleged saith. God said, all flesh had corrupted their way. Yet Noe and his family were not corrupted. 
Gen. 6.  So in the same chapter God said, interficiam omnem carnem, I will kill all flesh in which is breath of life under heaven, and all things that be in earth shalbe destroyed. Yet he saved Noe and seven other with him, likewise clean beasts by seven and seven, the male and the female, and unclean beasts, by couples, male and female, and many other things did he save and not destroy.  
Where was the church( say ye) when of all the world there were but eight persons, and they only saved alive from the universal destruction? Forsooth they were in Noes ark. And now haue we our Noes ark also, in which who so ever abideth not, the same is drowned. Because we know you to be out of this ark, for charities sake, we desire you to come in again, that ye may be saved. If ye will not, beware, ye pull not others into the sea of damnation with you, if not for love of Christ your judge and ours, yet for fear of grievous increase of hell torments. God grant some take this for a warning. 
answer to thobiection of Elias.   
Neither was the church undone among them of the old Lawe, when Elias made mone, as though none had ben left beside himself. 
3. Reg. 19.  For God told him of seven thousand that had not bowed their knees to Baal. And though Esaie said, 
Esai. 1.  the silver of Gods people was become dross, the city a harlot, 
All name such, as the greater part is.  and that there was no whole part in all the body from the crown of the head to the sole of the foot, yet God in that people had his church. But because the greater part was evil, he rebuketh al, as though there had ben none at al good. And that maner of speaking generally, where notwithstanding an exception is to be vnderstanded, is not in scripture strange, as S. Augustine teacheth. 
Ezech. 3. The name of all sometime is taken for the more parte. Ezech. 9.  The house of Israel( saith our lord to Ezechiel) will not hear thee, for they will not hear me. For all the house of Israel is of a hardworne forehead, and of a hard hart. Yet in another place he saith otherwise. Make the sign of thou vpon the foreheads of the men that lament and bewail al the abominations that be in the midst of the city. This place of Ezechiel here leadeth us to understand the words of Ezechiel before not to be extended to al. For by these words it is evident, that some remained, who consented not to the general wickedness of that people, and had not hardened their foreheads and their hartes.  

Psal. 11.  Saluum me fac, quoniam defecit Sanctus, save me Lord( saith david) for there is not a holy one left. They haue spoken vain things every each one to his neighbour. But hear what answer our Lord maketh unto him. For the miseries sake of the needy, and the wailing of the poor, now will I stand up. Whereupon the prophet perceiving that he had mo compartners that lamented with him, said, Thou O Lord shalt keep us safe from this generation for ever. Thus the sayings of esay report the greater part of the people to be evil, not all the people. And in those few good the church remained then, Albeit we may say of such places of the Prophetes, that they were in maner rather predictions and foretellinges of the state of that people to come, then reprehensions. For so is that people described, not such as they were then, but such as they became to be after the coming of messiah.  
Where Christ said the scribes and pharisees had made the house of God a den of thieves, 
Mat. 21.  yet was the same the temple of God, and resembled the whole church, and so that notwithstanding there was the church. 
A necessary observation for answer to the gospelers objections. Deut. 7. Exod. 33.  It is agreeable to the maner and custom of the holy scriptures, to call the self same people at one time for good and just mennes sake happy and blessed, at an other time for the wicked mennes sake, wretched and unhappy. Moses now calleth the Israelites an elect and blessed people, a holy nation, the peculiar people of God. And by and by he nameth them a stiff necked, a foolish and an unadvised people. The Prophetes call thē sometimes the people of Sodoma and Gomorra, 
Esai. 1. Ierem. 23.  sometimes again the people of God. S. Augustine doubted not by way of interpretation to term the church alluding to the words of Salomons mystical cantikes, black in the evil, faire in the good. 
De doct. Christ. li. 3. cap. 32. In Mat. cap. 15.  Origen also calleth the church a den of thieves for their sake, which in the church sell doves. So for the wicked scribes and pharisees sake Christ called the house of God a den of thieves, notwithstanding the number of the righteous and holy.  
Your comparison of the church with a corn field we do not mislike. For Christ himself saith in the gospel, 
joan. 15.  that his father is a husbandman. To thintent this field should bring forth good corn, he hath and doth, and shall to the worlds end, sand workmen into it to care it, till it, and dress it. Such as will not prove good wheat by no manuring and diligence, but either thistles, darnel, cockle, nettils, or chaff, though he suffer the one to remain with the other for a time, 
mat. 3.  when Christ shall come to wynnowe that he shall find in his bernes flower, the wheat he shall lay up in his granards of heavenly bless, the chaff shall be puffed away, the rest shall be bound together in bundelles, and cast into the fire. Neither were the prophetes and Apostles sent, nor Christ came himself, to repair a new the church, which had in faith wholly erred, but both they were sent, and he came, that it should not wholly err. Though among the Iewes at his coming into flesh few were found just, yet even then also had he his number, of whom Esaie said, that our Lord had left them seed, for else had they ben like Sodoma and Gomorra. Of which seed after his ascension grew a great harvest.  

apology  But least some man should say that the foresaid things happened in the time of the lawe onely, of shadows, and of infancy, when truth lay hide under figures and ceremonies, when nothing as yet was brought to perfection, when the Lawe was not graven in mennes heartes but in ston( and yet is that but a foolish saying) for even at those daies was there the very same God that is now, the same spirit, the same Christ, the same faith, the same doctrine, the same hope, the same inheritance, the same league, and the same efficacy and virtue of Gods word. Eusebius also saith, all the faithful even from Adam until Christ, were in very dede Christians, though they were not so termed. But as I said, least men should thus speak still, Paul the Apostle found the like faults and falls even then in the prime and chief of the gospel, in chief perfection, and in light, so that he was compelled to writ in this sort to the Galatians, whom he had well before that instructed: I fear me( quod he) least I haue laboured amongst you in vain, and least ye haue heard the gospel in vain. O my little Children, of whom I travail a new, till Christ be fashioned again in you: And as for the church of the Corinthians, how foully it was defiled, is nothing needful to rehearce. Now tel me, might the Churches of the Galathians and Corinthians go amiss, and the church of Rome alone may it not fail ner go amiss?   

THE THIRTINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  This defender having spent all his stuff which he brought out of the old testament for proof that the catholic church may err and fail: cometh now to the new testament, and allegeth S. Paul finding faults and falls( as he saith) in the Galathians, and in the Corinthians. 
It is not denied but that particular churches may err. But that the whole church erreth in faith, that is denied  Whereto we answer, that in partes of the church faults may be found, and sundry men that seem to be of the church, and be in the church in dede, may fall and perish, all this we grant. but that the whole, catholic, and universal church, whose faith we profess, may err, fall, and fail: that we deny utterly, which had ben this Defenders part to prove, else he talketh to no purpose. And where S. Paul rebuketh all the Galathians in general, as though all had forsaken their faith, he doth it after the wont of the prophetes both in that and other epistles, for the greater partes sake reprehending all, though some deserve praise, as contrariwise sometimes he praiseth all, where some deserve rebuk, as S. Augustine observeth, libro contra Donatist. post collation. For in the same epistle he saith afterward: 
Cap. 20. Gal. ca. 6.  Brethren if any man be fallen by chance into any fault, ye which are spiritual, help to amend him in the spirit of meekness, considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.  
As for the Corinthians though many among them were faulty, yet who considereth how he beginneth his epistle to them, shall find that he acknowledged a church among them. For thus he writeth. Paul by vocation an Apostle, 
1. Cor. 1.  &c. to the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Iesu, Sainctes by calling, with all that call on the name of our Lord Iesus Christ in every place &c. I thancke my God always on your behalffe, for the grace of God which is given you by Iesus Christ, that in all things ye are made rich by him, &c. Who readeth this, will think, they were all very good rather, then that any reprobates were among them. But for the right understanding of such sayings, S. Augustines observation must take place. And as among the Galathians and Corinthians some went amiss, so also may some in the particular church of the city of Rome. But that the whole catholic church,( which in respect of the head may in a good sense be called the roman church) erreth or faileth in faith, that still we deny, and yet ye bring no argument worth the hearing to the contrary. Yet ye go forth, and fain would ye seem to say somewhat, though to no purpose, whiles ye say thus.  

apology  Surely Christ prophesied long before of his church, that the time should come, when desolation should stand in the holy place. And Paul saith that Antichrist should once set up his own tabernacle and stately seat in the temple of God: 
Thess. 2. daniel. 8.  and that the time should be, when men should not away with wholesome doctrine, but be turned back unto fables and lies, and that with in the very Church. 
1. Petri. 2. Daniel. 8.  Peter likewise tellyth, how there should be teachers of lies in the Church of Christ: daniel the prophet speaking of the later times of Antichrist, truth saith he, in that ceasone shalbe thrown under foot, 
Ma●t. 24.  and trodden upon in the world. And Christ saith, howe the calamity and confusion of things shal be so exceeding great, that even the chosen, if it were possible, shal be brought into error: and how these things shall come to pass not amongst Gentiles and Turkes, but that they should be in the holy place, in the temple of God, in the Church, and in the company and feloweship of those which profess the name of Christ.  

Confutation. What is ment by Daniels Desolation. Daniel. 9. mat. 24.  The prophecy of Daniel concerning the abomination of desolation whereof Christ spake in the gospel, we think with the best learned divines, that it is to be referred not to the end of the world, nor to the driving away of the faith by Antichrist, as ye imagine, but to the consummation and final ending of the synagogue.  
Touching that ye say of Antichrist, it maketh nothing against the catholics, against whose faith he prevaileth not. Mary many good men think thath he hath already begun to set up his tabernacle and stately seat in the 
Forranners of antichrist.  hartes of many, which ought to be the temple of God, by his foreronners martin Luther, Zuinglius, calvin, and you their scholars with the rest of that wicked rabble. And to say the trouth, who seeth not the time now come, that S. paul spake of to Timothe? For sithence your gospel was tapt, men be so drunk with the poison thereof for a great meany, as they can not away with holesom doctrine, but be turned back from the sad preaching of the catholic faith unto your fables and lies. Where ye add, and that within the church, 
2. Tim. 4.  it is more then ye found in S. Paul. But we understand your good will, though we find you without ever a good reason. And yet we grant, ye came out from us, 
1. joan. 2.  as S. John saith, but ye were not of vs. For if ye had ben of us, ye would haue tarried with vs. So may the saying of S. Peter be referred to you, and likewise that of Daniel, which ye allege, though the words be not in Daniel, for your scoolemaisters and you are a limb of Antichrist, and ye labour what ye can, to overthrow and tread under foot the true faith of the church and the catholic religion. But the same in the world well may ye do, in the church otherwise shall ye not do it, but so as the same shall remain, 
mat. 28.  and Christ our Lord with her according to his promise, to the end of the world. And this much might ye haue gathered of the place, which here ye allege out of the gospel, had not heresy and malice against the church blinded you, which reporteth that through the exceeding greatness of the confusion to come, 
mat. 24.  even the elect should be brought into error, if it were possible. Lo hear ye not, how it is not possible, but that for all the stir of Antichrist and his faction, the chosen shal keep their faith, and the church stand, though it be never so much persecuted, in the true belief? Now this defender to prove the church to haue erred, goeth from the scriptures of the new testament unto the doctors, and saith.  

apology  Albeit these same warnynges alone may suffice a wiseman to take heed he do not suffer himself rashelye to be deceived with the name of the church, and not to stay to make further inquisition thereof by Gods word, yet beside al this, many Fathers also, many learned and godly men, haue often and carefully complained, how all these things haue chanced in their life time. For even in the midst of that thick mist of darkness, God would yet there should be some, who though they gave not a clear and bright light, yet should they kindle, were it but some spark, which men might espy being in the darkness.  

Contrà Auxentium.  Hylarius, when things as yet were almost uncorrupt, and in good case to, Ye are ill deceived, saith he, with the love of walls, ye do ill worship the Church, in that ye worship it in houses and buildings: ye do ill bring in the name of peace under roofs. Is there any doubt but Antichrist will haue his seat under this same? I rather reckon hills, woods, pools, maryshes, prisons, and quauemires, to be places of more safety: for in these the Prophetes either abiding of their accord, or drowned by violence, didde prophecy by the spirit of God.   

THE FOVRTINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation. The faith in Hilarius time most of all othertimes persecuted by the Arians under Constantius the Arian Emperour. Aduersus luciferian.  I marvell what ye mean to say of Hilarius time, that then things were yet almost uncorrupt and in good case. Was there ever a more corrupt or worse time? Was not the Emperour Constantius an Arian? Did he not banish the catholic bishops, and place the Arians in their romes? Haue ye not red how lamentably Athanasius, that suffered so much persecution for the catholic faith, how Basilius, how gregory nazianzen, how Ambrose, briefly how all the holy fathers of that age complain of the great miseries of that time? saith not S. jerome, ingemuit totus orbis,& Arianum se esse miratus est? The whole world lamented the case, and marveled, that it came to be of the Arians side. verily had ye misliked the Arians heresy, ye could not so far haue commended that time. But yet to say somewhat in your excuse, perhaps ye thought good to help a bad matter with a lie, wherein ye step never a foot from your common custom, I mean specially the penman of this apology.  
For the place of Hilarius, that answer may serve you, which S. Augustine made to an heretic alleging the same as ye do, writing to Vincentius, it is thus. Ecclesia aliquando obscuratur quidem &c. 
Epist. 48. odd Vincentium.  In very dede the church is sometimes darkened with the multitude of offences. But withall even then in her most firm and assured ones she holdeth up her head. Sometimes she is flasshed and tossed with the waves of temptations. And such was the time then, that Hilarius wrote of, from whence thou thoughtest craftily to take advantage against the divine testimonies, &c. After a few there he saith further. Who knoweth not, how at that time many of little understanding were deceived with dark words, so as they thought, the same to be believed of the Arians, which they themselves also believed, and how some gave over for fear, some yielded feignedly? Albeit they who then stood to it most stoutly, and could understand the guileful words of the heretics, they were few in comparison of the rest, yet they for all that certain of them abode banishment manfully for the faith, and certain lay hide secretly in corners all the world over.  
So then Hilarius rebuked either the darnel of the ten provinces of Asia, not the wheat, or the wheat itself also, because it seemed to be in some danger of a certain giving over: he thought good how much the more vehemently so much the more profitably to check it. For the canonical scriptures haue this maner of checking, that the word be spoken as to all, and pertain but to certain. This far S. Augustine answering the place alleged out of Hilarius. Whereby we understand, that in those stormy times and dangerours tempests, the church kept up above water, in respect of her strongest and most valiant gouernours and shipmaisters, though in respect of a number of weak and faint mariners, to the face of the world it seemed half sonckt, specially when heretics had invaded the stern of spiritual rule in sundre provinces.  

apology In R●gist. li. 4. epist. ad Maurit.  gregory, as one which perceived and foresaw in his mind the wrack of all things, wrote thus to john bishop of constantinople, who was the first of all others that commanded himself to bee called by this new name, the universal bishop of whole Christes Church. Yf the Church saith he, shall depend vpon one man, it will at once fall down to the ground. Who is he that seeth not how this is come to pass long since? For long ago hath the Bishop of Rome willed to haue the whole church depend vpon himself alone. Wherefore it is no maruail, though it be clean fallen down long ago.  

Confutation.  Ye make a fowle lie sir defender vpon S, gregory. The words you recite, be your own, not his. Is it not enough to lie yourself, as you do very often, but that you father lies also vpon the doctors? Thankes be to God, that so ye bewray the weakness of your cause. Neither in any epistle to John bishop of Constantinople, as you say in your apology, nor in any to Mauritius the Emperour, as you haue noted in the margin, writeth gregory, that if the church shall depend vpon one man, the whole shall fall to ground. I see well you would fain gregory had so written. And if he had, yet your argument had ben nought. For you take not the right minor, which should haue ben this, the church doth depend vpon one man, if you would make your reason good and after the rules of logic. For where your minor speaketh only of the Popes will, thereof your conclusion followeth not. Dispose your propositions in the form of a syllogism, and you shall espy your own feeble reason. And if you make that your minor, then grant you that which you deny.  
The words whereof you gather this pretensed saying of gregory, 
Epist. lib. 4. ad Maurit. epist. 32.  as I suppose, be these. If any man hath caught unto himself that name( of universal bishop) in that church( of Constantinople) then the whole church,( which God forbid) fell from his state, when he that is called universal, fell. 
What gregory meant by universal bishop  gregory understandeth by the name universal bishop, as himself declareth in many places, such a one, as is a bishop altogether and only, so as there be no other bishop besides him. Now if it were granted, that the bishop of Constantinople were this one and only universal bishop, this inconvenience would follow, that with the fall of that universal bishop, the universal church also fell. For where the church is, there be bishops and where be Bishops, there is the church: and a bishop universal by ●regorie is as much as all bishops. That this being granted, the whole church is fallen from the faith thus he proveth. 
By S. Gregory if one be universal bishop, that is by his meaning, if one be al, and none be bishop but that one, then at the fall of that one, the whole church falleth which were absurd.  For( saith he) the Bishops of Constantinople haue fallen into the gulf of great and detestable heresies, as Nestorius, who thinking Christ to be two persons, and believing that God could not be made man, ran to a jewish infidelity, and as Macedonius, who denied the holy ghost to be God. Wherefore if the B. of Constantinople be the universal bishop according to the sense aforesaid, then at the fall of him from the faith, as when those two before name fell, the church also falleth, as then by this reason when they were bishops, it fell. Thus reasoneth S. gregory in that epistle to Mauritius. But because to gregory it seemeth very far from reason and incredible, that the church should fall from the faith and fail: therefore he enueigheth against John the bishop of Constantinople for challenging that name of universal bishop, and concludeth that the bishop of that see in any wise can not so be.  
But if the word universal signify a certainty of charge, and supremacy of government over the whole church, 
In what sense the B. of Rome may justly be called universal bishop. John. 21.  which Christ committed to Peter, and in Peter to his successors the bishops of Rome, when he said, feed my sheep: in this sense it is not impious nor erroneous, nor contrary to the mind of S. gregory, to call the successor of Peter Christes vicar in earth, the universal bishop, that is to say the highest of all, and having power over all other bishops, and bishop of the universal church. And as Christ gave to S. Peter and his successors for the benefit of his church a supreme authority and power: 
John. 1 4  so for the same churches sake, for whose love he delivered himself to death, by petition made to his father he obtained for him and his successors, the privilege of this supreme and most excellent grace, 
luke. 22.  that their faith should never fail. In consideration of which singular privilege obtained by Christ and granted to the see apostolic and to none other, gregory rebuketh John the bishop of Constantinople so much, as one that presumptuously usurped that new name of universal bishop against the statutes of the gospel, and against the decrees of the Canons.  
To conclude, if either gregory or any other man should say, that the church dependeth vpon one man: he might seem to say truth meaning rightly, and that not alone, nor without good authority. For such a saying we find uttered by S. jerome. 
Contra Luciferian.  The safety of the church( saith he) dependeth vpon the dignity of the highest priest, who if he haue not authority peerless and above all other: there will be so many schisms in the church, as there be priestes. Which peerless authority above all other as S. Hierom in that place doth attribute to the bishop of every Dioces directly: so consequently to Peters successor, to whom it was said, 
John. 21.  f●de my sheep. For by what reason in each Dioces it behoveth one priest to be highest over other priestes, by the same and in like proportion nolesse it behoveth, that in the whole church one bishop be highest over other bishops. I mean, for avoiding schisms.  

apology  Bernard the Abbot above four hundred yeares past writeth thus: nothing is now of sincerity and pureness amongst the clergy, wherefore it resteth that the man of sin should be revealed. The same bernard in his work of the conversion of Paul, It seemeth now saith he, that persecution hath ceased: no no, persecution seemeth but now to begin, even from them which haue chief pre-eminence in the church. Thy friends and neighbours haue drawn near, and stood up against thee: from the sole of thy foot to the crown of thy head, there is no part whole. iniquity is proceeded from the Elders, the Iudges and deputies which pretend to rule thy people. Wee cannot say now, look how the people be, so is the priest. For the people be not so ill as the priest is. Alas, alas, o lord God, the self same persons be the chief in persecutinge thee, which seem to love the highest place, and bear most rule in thy church. The same Bernard again vpon the Canticles writeth thus. All they are thy friends, yet are they all thy soes, all thy kinsefolke, yet are they all thy aduersaries, being Christes seruants, they serve Antichrist, behold in my rest, my bitterness is most bitter.  
Here you haue heaped together many sayings of S. Bernard. And to what purpose? 
Confutation.  red them again and again, and all S. Bernardes works, 
Bernard reproveth evil manners, not the supreme authority of the b. of Rome.  and you shall not find one sentence against the bishop of Rome his supreme authority, nor against the catholic doctrine of the church, that ye impugn, and we profess. What Bernard thought of the Popes supremacy, anon ye shall hear Bernard tell his own tale. He reproveth somewheres the manners of the clergy, which neither we do allow, if they be evil. But for maintenance of your schismatical doctrine against the power, dignity, and office of the Pope, which he beareth over the whole church, he speaketh not so much as one word.  
Roger Bacon also a man of great famed, 
apology. In libello de idiomate linguarum.  after he had in a vehement Oration touched to the quick the woeful state of his own time, These so many errors saith he, require and look for Antichrist. Gerson complaineth how in his daies all the substance and efficacy of sacred divinity was brought into a glorious contention and ostentation of wits, and to very sophistry. The Friers of Lions, men as touching the maner of their life, not to be misliked, were wont boldly to affirm, that the Romish church( from whence alone all counsel and ordres was thē sought) was the very same harlot of Babylon, and rout of divels, whereof is prophesied so plainly in the Apocalyps.   

THE FIFTINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  After that this defender hath brought in all that he found in his note books gathered out of the old and new testament, and out of S. Hilary, gregory, and Bernard, sounding as he imagineth somewhat against the catholic churches continuance in faith, lest perhaps his matter were not yet sufficiently proved, as in dede hitherto he hath proved nothing, but hath only shewed the malice of his heart and the weakness of his side: 
A new band of tag and rag brought in against the church by this Defender, rather to show of malice thē proof of purpose. Cantic. 6.  Now cometh me he in with a new band, which consisteth of tagge and rag, and a weak company God knoweth they be to show their faces against the catholic church, which( as the holy ghost speaketh by Salomon) is terrible like an army of men set in battle ray. And how they will agree together fighting under this new clergies banner, I doubt. For some be catholic, and some be heretics, some poets and fablers, some good and grave men, who will do this Defender little service, some of one language, some of an other.  
First friar Bacon the conjuror and negromanser as commonly they say of him, 
friar Roger bacon.  he is set in the forward, a man of great famed forsooth. Yet few there be that can so much as name his works, they be so obscure. And what saith he? Mary he reproveth sharply the vices of his time, and telleth men, that the same require Antichrist to come. For that he speaketh of errors in doctrine, I can not believe it. That poor obscure book written haue I sene, printed I never saw it. Neither be many of his works counted worth the printing. I should the rather believe that he saith so as here we are born in hand, were it an other man that had alleged his words. As for this Defender, I haue taken him in so many notorious lies, that I can not believe him further, then I see with mine own eyes. But let it be true, that he said so as he is alleged. We grant that Antichrist is coming, and that these Defenders with their scoolefelowes of germany, Suitzerland and Geneua, be his forronners: of these meant friar Bacon. How prove ye the contrary?  
Then cometh in the good plain father Gerson a writer in our graundfathers time, he complaineth, 
Gerson alleged to no purpose.  that friers and students gave themselves to much to the unprofitable subtility of scholastical questions. What maketh this against the faith of the church?  
After these this Defender placeth in an owtwing the false brethren of lions, 
The authority of heretics alleged by heretics against the church.  commonly called Waldenses or Pauperes de Lugduno, notorious heretics condemned of the church, whom it liketh this allowed interpreter for good will she beareth to religion, to call friers. And they stick not to say, the church of Rome to be the whore of Babylon, whereof S. John speaketh in his revelation. These being detestable heretics condemned of the church, we reck not what they say, no more then what Luther saith, what Zuinglius, what calvin, what these Defenders themselves say, what Antichrist, what satan saith. For the enemies of Gods truth may not be admitted to give witness against the truth.  
I know well enough the authority of the foresaid persons is but lightly regarded amongst these men. 
apology  Howe then if I call forth those for witnesses whom themselves haue used to honour: what if I say that Adryan the bishop of Rome did franklye confess, that all these thieves brast out first from the high throne of the Pope?  
This Defender in putting his army in array useth the policy of some capitaines. Who when they lack souldiers, 
Confutation. A poor policy of the Defender.  and fear to be encountered, take haye or straw, and therewith stuff mens clothes, and set them up in sight to keep a standing in stede of men, to make their enemies believe their camp is well manned. So here haue we a man of straw set up, whom this defender nameth Adrian bishop of Rome. 
Adrian a feigned fellow brought for show.  He giveth him a waze of straw in his hand, that a far of seemeth to be a sore weapon taken out of the armorie of Platina, as is pretended. But when ye come near and behold what fellow this is, and confer with Platina touching his weapon, ye see it to be a feigned thing. For there is no such saying by Platina attributed to any of the six Adrians bishops of Rome, whose lives he writeth. And mo there were not. Therefore where you say, what if I say that Adrian, &c. I answer thereto, that if you say so, you say a false lie.  

apology  Pighius acknowledgeth herein to be a fault, that many abuses are brought in, even into the very mass, which mass otherwise he would haue seem to be a reverend matter. Gerson saith, that through the number of most fonde ceremonies, all the virtue of the holy ghost, which ought to haue full operation in us, and all true godliness is utterly quenched and deade. Whole Grecia and Asia, complain howe the bishops of Rome with the martes of their Purgatories and Pardons, haue both tormented mennes consciences, and picked their purses.  

Confutation.  By this proper fellow Adrian is placed Pighius. And he is by this Defender made to be enemy to the church now after his death, which he was never in his life, and to confess abuses in the mass. In dede in his sixth controversy speaking of private masses, he denieth not but certain abuses be crept into that most holy and most helthful thing, for so he speaketh. And adding further, we know( saith he) to what man, and to what men it pertaineth the same to correct. And let each man aclowledge his own measure, and understand his duty. As who should say, it is not meet for every man to take vpon him to amend any thing that is amiss about the mass. For he meaneth not that the mass itself is erroneous, as full well there he d●c areth: 
What maner abuses be they which Pighius complaineth to haue crept into the service of the mass.  but that men be faulty in abusing that most holy sa●●ce. For many come to the altar, vnworthely. Many be present at it, that ought not to come within the church doors. Some priestes be of so lewd lives, and of so vnreuerent behaviour at it, as it were better they abstained. Albeit I think he meant rather such abuses, as the learned fathers of the provincial council of Coulē would to be amended, to wit, certain peculiar offices of Masses devised by men of late yeares besides the ordinance of the ancient forefathers, which they misliked, for that so high a mystery is not to be ordered after every mans affection. 
Offices of Masses of private affection, vnlerned Proses, and Antemes song at theleuation reproved.  Also certain vnlerned Proses without iudgement of late put into the mass books. again playing at organs and singing of Antemes at and after the elevation of our lords body and blood for peace, against pestilence, and mortality. Whereas at that time men should rather pray in silence, and call to their remembrance the death of our lord, and give thankes to Christ our redeemer, for that he hath washed us with his blood, and with the same paid our ransom. Which Antemes those fathers think better to be song after mass.  
Furthermore in some places good men complain of Douch songs used to be song in the mass, in some other places of the disordered melody of organs, which stirreth to wantonness rather then to devotion. These and the like abuses meaneth Pighius, where he confesseth abuses not to be maintained, but to haue crept into the holy service of the mass. Which thing hath ben considered by the fathers of the late Tridentine council, 
C. 2. de celebrat. miss.  as also of old time by the fathers of the council Triburiense. All this being known, Pighius can not seem to help your cause any whit at all. Of the same abuses complain we nolesse then he, yet remembering, to whom the redress appertaineth  
As for the other great troupe ye bring with you out of Grece and Asia, first, we require you to make them agree with yourselves, and with the catholic church about the procession of the holy ghost, and then we shall answer both you and them concerning your grievous matter of purgatory and pardons. It is not our maner to take the sayings of heretics for good and sufficient authority.  
As touching the tyranny of the Byshops of Rome and their barbarous Persianlike pride, 
apology  to leave out others whom perchance they reckon for enemies, because they freely and liberally find fault with their vices, the self same men which haue led their life at Rome in the holy city, in the face of the most holy Father, who also were able to see all their secrets, and at no time departed from the catholic faith: As for example Laurentius Valla, Marcilius Patauinus, Fraunces petrarch, jerome Sauanorola, abbot joakim, Baptist of Mantua, and before all these, bernard the Abbotte, haue many a time and much complained of yt, giving the world also sometime to understand, that the bishop of Rome himself( by your leave) is very antichrist, Whether they spake yt truly or falsely, let that go: sure I am they spake it plainly. neither can any man allege that those authors were Luthers or Zwinglius schollers, for they were not onely certain yeares, but also certain ages or ever Luther or Zwinglius names were heard of.   

THE SIXTINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation. The Defender compared to a mad dog.  If this Defender were compared to a mad dog, some perhaps would think it rude and an unmannerly comparison. Let the man be as he is, who soever he be: verily the maner and fashion of both is like, howsoever I be content, his person be honoured with the due regard of a man. For as the mad dog runneth up and down, here and there, and now biteth one thing, and then an other, snapppeth at man and beast, and resteth not in one place: So this Defender to deface the church, sheweth himself to haue a very unquiet head. He starteth from one thing to an other, and settleth himself in no one matter, but in malice. His will and ●ose is to persuade, that all forsake the catholic church, 
The will and purpose of the Defender.  as he and his companions haue done. To bring this to pass, he startleth to and fro, and can stay nowhere. Now he runneth at the bishop of Rome, then at the whole clergy. 
The fowleshiftes the Defender maketh.  Now he barketh at errors in doctrine, and sheweth none, then he snappereth at manners, and backebiteth mens lives. Now he bringeth forth scriptures, and them he stretcheth and racketh, but they reach not home. Then cometh he to the doctors, and maketh them of his side whether they will or no. From doctors he runneth to conjurers, to rhyming poets, and to heretics themselves. I think they had rather ronne to the Turkes, then the catholic faith should be received. And here leaving that he took in hand to prove, that the church erreth in necessary doctrine, he flyngeth at the tyranny and pride of the bishops of Rome, and bringeth in for witness against them white and black, good and bad. So he hurt them, he careth not how, by what means, ne by what persons.  
First to gete credite, he uttereth a manifest lie, saying of them all, they led their life at Rome in the holy city under the nose of the most holy father, and might see all his secrets, and never forsook the catholic faith. 
The best witnesses the Defender hath against: he bishops of Rome.  His witnesses be these. Laurence Valla, Marsilius of Padua, Francis petrarche, jerome Sauonarola, joachim Abbot, Baptist of Mantua, and S. Bernard, whom of spite he calleth Bernard the Abbot. Now let us see how many lies here be made at once. Whereas of all these never a one lead his life at Rome, but Laurence Valla, who was a canon of lateran, and this Defender saith that all did: there is one lie. That all these might see the Popes secrets, there be two lies. That none of these forsook the catholic faith, there be three lies. As for Laurence Valla he was not in every point very sound, 
Laurens Valla not sound in some points of fa●th.  as it appeareth in his book of free will, and in his annotations vpon the new testament. In all things he handled, he shewed himself new fangled, rather then groundedly learned, as well in grammar and logic, as in divinity.  

Marsilius of Padua a schismatic, and at length an heretic.  But Marsilius of Padua, to please the Emperour Ludouicus Bauarus, who lived above two hundred yeres past, through malice conceived against Pope john the xxij. of whom the said Ludouicus was for just causes excommunicate, went so far in schism, as at length he fell into heresy.  

Abbot Ioachims book condemned for heresy.  And Abbot joachim whiles he reproved Peter Lombard, uttered heresy contrary to the catholic faith touching the trinity, and therefore his book was condemned by the church, though his person was not condemned, because he submitted himself and his writings to the iudgement of the holy roman church, 
Extra de summa trinit.& fide cathol. cap. 2.  as we find in the Decretals. That all these haue greatly and often complained of the bishops of Rome their tyranny and pride, there be four lies. That they declared the Pope himself to be very Antichrist, there be five lies. And whereas to make this shameless lie you ask leave, so we ask leave of you to tell it you, and to challenge you of a lie, and say plainly unto you, that speaking of them all, you belie them, and that you shall never be able to prove that you say of them.  

francis Petrarch, and Baptist of Mantua.  Francis Petrarch the Italian poet, and Baptist of Mantua the latin poet, speak like poets, each of them once in their works against the evil manners of the court of Rome. But what proof maketh all this, that the roman church, that is to say, the west church, which only remaineth, and ever hath remained whole and sound of faith, erreth in doctrine? O●●at argument can you gather out of all these, I will not 〈◇〉 against the life, but against the office, authority, and dignity of the Bishop of Rome? The argument you can make hereupon is this. poets reprehend the vices of the court of Rome: ergo, the Pope is Antichrist. Or, ergo the catholic church erreth, and is to be forsaken. What force is in this reason, every reasonable man, be he never so mean of wit may sone judge.  
They well saw that even in their daies error had crept into the church, and wished earnestly they might be amended. 
apology   
Lo how this Defender skippeth. 
Confutation.  Before he spake of manners, and now he goeth forth, and with the same breath inueyeth against doctrine, and imputeth errors to the church.  
And what marvel yf the church were then carried away with errors in that time, 
Apologi●  specially when neither the bishop of Rome who then only ruled the roast, nor almost any other, either didde his duty, or once understood what was his duty. For it is hard to be believed, whiles they were idle and fast a sleep, that the divell also all that while either fell a sleep, or else continually lay idle. For how they were occupied in the mean time, and with what faithfulness they took care of Goddes house, though wee hold our peace, yet I pray you let them hear bernard their own friend. 
bernard ad Eugnium.  The bishops( saith he) who now haue the charge of Gods church, are not teachers but deceivers, they are not feeders butte begylers, they are not Prelates butte Pylates. These words spake bernard of that bishop, who name himself the highest bishop of all, and of the other bishops likewise which then had the place of government. Bernard was no Lutherian, Bernard was no heretic, he had not forsaken the catholic church, yet nevertheless he didde not let to call the Byshoppes that then were, deceivers, begilers, and Pylates. now when the people was openly deceived, and Christian mennes eyes were craftily bleared, and when Pilat sate in iudgement place and condemned Christ and Christes members to the sword and fire, Oh good Lord, in what case was Christes church then? But yet tell me, of so many and gross errors, what one haue these men at any time reformed, or what fault haue they once acknowledged and confessed?   

THE SEVENTINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  Why sirs, are ye so well learned and so holy of life yourselves, that ye take vpon you to judge the bishop of Rome Christes chief officer in earth, 
Thinsolent iudgement of the defenders.  and all other men before the time of your Apostates and renegade friers, to haue ben both impious for not doing their duty, and ignorant for not knowing what was their duty? Was all virtue so far banished, all necessary knowledge and christian learning so clean put out, that we must now begin to learn how to believe, and how to live a Christian life of such light preachers, wicked vowbreakers, lewd Lecherous Lurdens, and detestable blasphemers, as your devilish rabble is? If the devill at that time was stirring so much, they being idle and a sleep as ye say, what mean ye by that? Is he now a sleep, that ye be so busy? For so much your words do give. In dede the devill may now go play or take his rest, if he wist how, whiles ye do his work for him. And when he is sure of one, he is not very busy about him. And that is the cause that being sure of you doing as ye do, he letteth you alone.  

S. Bernard reproveth not the doctrine of the church, nor the authority of the Pope, but the evil life of the Pope and of the clergy.  But because ye allege S. Bernard so much, as though he holp your cause, who in all that ye bring out of him, reproveth only the eulll life of the Pope and the clergy, not the doctrine of the church: I think good here to rehearse a place of that holy father even out of the same book, which you pike words out of for your purpose against the Pope. By which every man may assure himself, how much he honoured the office and dignity of the Pope, how so ever sometime vpon his great affiance of friendship with Eugenius, who once had ben his scholar, he sticketh not to speak plainly against his defaults. These be S. Bernardes words worthy to be well weighed and considered of all, specially of those, who through your false and slanderous teaching being deceived, think so that to be in him, 
A notable place of S. Bernard, wherein he declareth fully, what he thought thouching the Popes authority over the church.  whereby he may seem to fauer your ●●maticall doctrine touching the Pope. His words to Eug●●s be these.  
Age indagemus adhuc diligentius, quis sis, &c. Well go to. Let us somewhat more diligently examine, what maner a man thou art, what person thou bearest for the present time in the church of God. Who art thou? The great priest, the highest bishop. Thou arte the chief of all bishops, thou arte the heir of the Apostles: for primacy thou art Abel, for government Noe, for patriarkship Abraham, for holy order Melchisedech, for dignity Aaron, 
Li. 2, de consideratione. The Pop● who is he by S. Bernard.  for authority Moyses, for iudgement Samuel, for power Peter, for thy anointing Christ. Thou art he to whom the keys were delivered, to whom the sheep were committed. There be also other porters of heaven, and pastours of flocks. But thou so much far passing all other, as thou hast inherited both names much more indifferent. They haue their flocks assigned unto them, each man one. All are committed to thee, the one whole flock to one. Neither arte thou only the pastor of all the sheep, but also the only pastor of all the pastours.  
demandest thou of me how I prove it? 
joan. 21.  Forsooth out of the word of God. For I pray you to whom( I will not say of the bishops) but also of the Apostles, were all the sheep so absolutely and indeterminatly committed? If thou love me Peter, feed my sheep, which sheep? The people of this or of that city, of this or of that country, or kingdom? My sheep quoth he. Who now doth not evidently see, that Christ did not appoint him certain, but assigned him all? Where no distinction is made, there nothing is excepted. And peradventure his other fellow disciples were present, when Christ committing all to one, commended unity to them all in on one flock and in one shepherd, according to that is said, One is my dove, one is my beautiful, my perfect. 
Cant. 6.  Where is unity, there is perfection. Other numbers haue not perfection, but by division depart from unity. Thereof it cometh, that other had particular churches, each man one ●nowing this mystery. And S. james who seemed to be a pillar of the church, 
Galat. 1.  was contented with jerusalem onely, 
universality yielded to Peter.  yielding the universality to Peter. And right well was he placed there, to raise up seed of his dead brother, where the same was slain, for he was called our lords brother. Furthermore when our lords brother had given place, what other should intrude himself into Peters prerogative? Wherefore according to thine own canons, other are called into parte of care, thow into fullness of power. 
The pope called to fullness of power.  The authority of others is restrained to certain prescript bounds, thine is extented even vpon those, who haue received power over others. Canst not thou if there because why, close up heaven gates against a bishop, deprive him of his bishopric, and give him up to the devill? Thy privilege then remaineth to thee unshaken, as well in the keys which were given thee, as in the sheep that were commended unto thee.  

A reason for the Popes {pre}rogatiue after the iudgement of S. Bernard. joan. 21.  Now hear another reason which confirmeth that prerogative to thee, as well as the other. The disciples rowed, and our Lord appeared unto them on the shore, and that in his body now again restored unto life, which was more comfortable unto them. Peter knowing that it was our lord, leapte into the sea, and so came unto him, and the rest came by boat. What meaneth this? Forsooth it was a sign of the singular popedom of Peter, by which he took into his government not one only one ship, 
Peter took into his government the whole world. The Pope Christes vicar.  as the other did, each man his own, but the whole world. For the sea is the world, the ships are the churches. And that is the cause that at another time walking vpon the water as Christ did, he declared himself to be the only vicar of Christ, which should not haue the pre-eminence over one only people, but over all. For many waters, are many peoples. So whereas every other man hath his, to thee is committed the greatest ship of all, made out of all other ships, to wit, the universal church dispersed through out the whole world. This 〈◇〉 S. Bernard. Who speaketh so much for the Popes auc●●e over Christes flock, howsoever sometimes he blameth sharply the evil life of the clergy, as of all writers by men of any shamefastness against the Popes supremacy he is least to be alleged. Wherefore from henceforth take nomore hold Sirs of S. Bernard. For he is quiter against you, as all other holy fathers be.  
But forsomuch as these men avouch the universal possession of the catholic church to bee their own, 
apology  and call us heretics, because we agree not in judgement with them, let us know I beseech you, what proper mark and badge hath that church of theirs, whereby it may be known to bee the Church of God. I wys it is not so hard a matter to find out Goddes church, yf a man will seek it earnestly and diligently. For the Church of god is set vpon a high and glistering place in the top of an hil and buylte vpon the foundation of the Apostles and prophettes: There saith Augustine, let us seek the Church, there let us try our matter. And as he saith again in another place, The church must be shewed out of the holy and canonical scriptures: and that which can not be shewed, out of them, 
August. de unitate Eccles. Cap. 3. Idem. Ca. 4.  is not the church. Yet for all this I wote not howe whether it be for fear or for conscience, or despearing of victory, these men alway abhor and fly the word of God, even as the thief fleeth the gallows. And no wonder truly, for like as men say the Cantharus by and by perisheth and dieth, as soon as it is laid in balm notwithstanding balm be otherwise a most sweet smelling ointment: even so these men well see their own matter is dampped and destroyed in the word of God, as if it were in poison. Therefore the holy scriptures which our saviour Iesu christ did not onely use for authority in all his speech, butte didde also at last seal up the same with his own blood: these men to the intent they might with less business drive the people from the same, as from a thing daungerours and deadly, haue used to call them a bare letter, uncertain, unprofitable, dumb, killing, and dead: 
Albertus Pighius. in Hiarar.  which seemeth to us all one, as if they should say, The scriptures are to no purpose or as good as none. Hereunto they add also a similitude not very agreeable, howe the scriptures be like to a nose of wax, or a shipmans hose: how they may be fashioned and plied all manner of ways, and serve al mennes turns.   

THE EIGHTINTH CHAPTER.  
Where ye say the church is builded vpon the foundation 
Confutation.  of the Apostles and prophetes, and shewed by the holy canonical scriptures: we confess the same with S. Austine. 
De unit. Eccle. c. 3.&. 4.  When ye add, the church which can not be shewed out of the scriptures to be no church, we say, that though S. Augustine haue no such words in the chapters which ye allege in the margin, yet were it never so much granted, that he had those words in that place, they should make nothing for your purpose. S. Augustine in that book disputeth against the Donatistes, who would restrain the catholic church to the only country of afric, denying other Christen men to be members thereof. S. Augustine refuting their heresy, 
We must hold both with the body and head, if we will be saved.  declareth the son of God to be head, and all the true faithful to be the body of the church, and that it is not sufficient to hold with the head alone, or with the body alone: but we must hold with both together, if we will be saved. The Donatistes did grant the head Iesus Christ, 
The Donatistes heresy. Cap. 4.  and denied his body the church. For this cause saith S. Augustine, Ipsum caput de quo consentimus, ostendat nobis corpus suum de quo dissentimus. Let the head vpon whom we agree, show unto us his body, whereupon we disagree. The head is Christ, who spake first by his prophetes, afterward by himself, and last of all by his Apostles. In his igitur omnibus quaerenda est ecclesia. 
Where is the church to be sought.  In all these( saith he) the church must be sought.  
If thou mark good Reader that, which I haue here rehearsed out of S. Augustine, it is to be sene, that he bindeth not the proof of the church simply to the holy scriptures, but only in a case, when he hath to do with an heretic, who will not admit the authority of the church. Therefore a true church may be found, which is not shewed in the scriptures, so the contrary thereof be not shewed in the scriptures. For as when S. Augustine disputeth with the Maniches, he sheweth their falsehood only out of those books of the new testament which they will admit, so disputing with the Donatistes, he must show the true church not by succession of the bishops of Rome, as he doth in other places, but( because the Donatistes denied that kind of proof as the heretics of our time do) he must show it only out of the holy scriptures, to the intent he may convince them, by such principles, as themselves grant.  
Now if these Defenders will haue that to be no church which can not be shewed out of scriptures, they shall understand, that as therein they play the Donatistes, so we must needs follow S. Augustine in bringing scripture against them, 
proofs out of holy scriptures that our new clerges church is not the true church. Gen. 22.26.28. Galat. 3. Esai. 49.& 53. Esai. 2. Mich. 4. Psal. 2. mat. 28. Act. 1. Mat. 28. joan. 16.14. mat. 5. Psal. 18. luke. 8. mat. 5. 1. Tim. 3. Our new English church, is not dispersed through all the world, nor is of all times. A new start up church.  not as the only proof in dede( which they falsely say) but as a very good and chief kind of proof, most profitable in all cases, and necessary at such time, as the adversary will admit none other proof.  
To prove therefore out of holy scriptures that their church is not the true church, thus we say. God promised to Abraham, Isaac and jacob, that all nations should be blessed in their seed, which is Christ. Who is set to be the light of the gentiles, and all nations shall see the salvation which is from God, and go unto his holy hill, as being the heritage which Christ asked of his father. And for this cause he did will his Apostles to teach and baptize all nations, and to be his witnesses even to the end of the earth. With whom he promised that himself and the holy ghost would remain for ever. This church is a city builded vpon a hill, which can not be hid. A tabernacle placed in the sun, a candle set not under a bushel, but on a candellsticke, which al men may see that enter into the house, or be within the house the pillar and ground of truth.  
By these places it appeareth that the church of God is every where dispersed, and evidently to be sene. But that church which now is set up in England, had within these fifty yeres no one chapel in the whole world, wherein it might serve God, after that use and number of sacramentes, after that government of the church and form of faith, which now they keep in England. It must needs be an obscure company, if it were any at all, whereof no bishop, no doctor or head, nor parish priest or parish clerk can be shewed fifty yeres old. They can not be the lightsome and shining church of Christ builded vpon the foundations of the Apostles and prophetes, which flourisheth for ever. Wherefore it remaineth that it is the synagogue of Antichrist, and Lucifer. Who as he fell out of heaven like a lightning, so he maketh a blaze and show of a church in the earth for a time. But as we can tell when it was not born, so shall it not be long, but that through Gods power it will vanish away, dispersed and be scattered by the lightsome majesty of Christes true church, which from S. Peters time to this day flourisheth in her head the bishop of Rome, and in her members throughout the world, which abide in the unity of the same bishop.  
Our aduersaries perceiving well they haue no good ground to stay vpon, would make the world believe, that for this our glorious church, we had no scriptures. They lay to our charge, that we call the scriptures a cold, uncertain, unprofitable, dumb, killing and dead letter. But this is a slander, 
The reverence which the catholics bear to the scriptures.  as many other in their apology are. The scriptures we reverence a great deal more then they do, as the thing itself will bear witness. We first exhort every man to prepare himself both by cleans of life, and exercise of tongues and earnest study, before he come to red or expound the holy scriptures. They prostitute them as bawds do their harlots, to the vnlerned, ungodly and rascall sort of men, without any discerning of what disposition they be. We suffer no man though he be well learned and virtuous, to build any thing vpon the scriptures, except he haue either some of the old fathers, or practise of the church for his guide and interpretation. They seek in them nothing but new toys, carnal liberty, breach of order, and contempt of antiquity. We esteem and understand the scriptures to be the sense and the word. 
The scripture is the sense and word not the bare word only.  If they can pretend the bare word, they think themselves good enough to make a sense of their own. Which bare word as they misuse it, Pighius perhaps compareth to a nose of wax. But the scriptures he never meant to dishonour with that similitude. If it were lawful for us to use scripture after our own interpretation as they do, we should not lack sufficient matter in the holy books to overthrow by our own applying all their false opinions and heresies. But we are bound to that religious awe and reverence of them, that except we haue an author to avouch the sense whereof we take hold, we dare bring forth nothing. And yet red our books who will, he shall lack neither scriptures in them, nor witnesses of our interpretation in any controversy of this age. Let it be agreed that for decision of controversies such sense of the scriptures be taken for scripture, which the holy ghost hath taught the church, and then let the world judge, who flieth the word of God, as the thief doth the gallows, we, that always require them to be tried by the scriptures, as they are by the fathers expounded, or they, who boast of the bare word of the scripture, and that as themselves understand it: then shall it appear, whether part like the Cantharus loseth his force and power in the sweet balm of gods word.  

apology  Wotteth not the bishop of Rome that these things are spoken by his own minions? or understandeth he not, he hath such champions to fight for him? Let him hearken then how holilye and how godly one Hosius writeth of this matter, a bishop in Polonia as he testifieth of himself: a man doubtless well spoken and not vnlerned, and a very sharp and stout mainteinour of that side. One will marvel I suppose, howe a good man could either conceive so wickedlye, or write so dispytefullye of those words which he knew proceeded from Goddes mouth, and specially in such sort, as he would not haue it seem his own private opinion alone, butte the common opinion of all that band. He dissembleth I grant you in deed, and hideth what he is, and setteth fourth the matter so, 
Hosius de expresso verbo dei.  as though it were not he and his side, butte the Zwenkseldian heretics that so didd speak. We saythe he, will bid away with the same scriptures, whereof wee see brought not only diverse, butte also contrary interpretations: and we will hear God speak, rather then wee will resort to the naked elements, and appoint our salvation to rest in them. It behoveth not a man to be expert in the lawe and scripture, butte to bee taught of God. It is butte lost labour that a man bestoweth in the scriptures, for the scripture is a creature and a certain bare letter.  
This is Hosius saying, uttered altogether with the same spirit and the same mind, wherewith in times past Montane and Martion were moved, who as men report, used to say when with a contempt they rejected the holy scriptures, that themselves knew many mo and better things then either christ or the Apostles ever knew.  
What then shall I say here, O ye principal posts of Religion, O ye Archegouernours of CHRISTES church, is this that your reverence which ye give to Goddes word? The holy Scriptures which S. paul saith came by the inspiration of god, which God did commend by so many miracles, wherein are the most perfect prints of Christes own steps, which all the holy Farthers, Apostles, and Aungeles, which Christ himself the son of God, as often as was needful did allege for testimony and proof: will ye, as though they were unworthy for you to hear, bid them avaunt away? That is, will ye enjoin God to keep silence, who speakith to you most clearly by his own mouth in the Scriptures? Or that word, whereby alone, as Paul saith, we are reconciled to God, and which the Prophet david saith, is holy and pure and shall last for ever, will ye call that but a bare and dead letter? Or will ye say that all our labour is lost, which is bestowed in that thing which Christ hath commanded us diligently to search and to haue evermore before our eyes? And will ye say that Christ and the Apostles ment with subtlety to deceive the people, when they exhorted them to read the holy in scriptures, that thereby they might flow in all wisdom and knowledge? No marvel at all, though these men despise us and all our doings, which set so little by God himself and his infallible sainges. Yet was it but want of wit in them, to thintent they might hurt us, to do so extreme injury to the wor of God.  
But Hosius will here make exclamation saying, we do him wrong, and that these be not his own words, but the words of the heretic Zwenckfeldius.   

THE NINETINTH CHAPTER.  
How ignorantly, wickedly, 
Confutation. Hosius slanderously burdened by the apology.  and stubboornely the author of this apology burdeneth the reverent father in God and honourable prelate cardinal Hosius with that he never said, it is not unknown to all men, who haue readen that book, which he wrote, de expresso verbo Dei, of the express word of God. Here I ask so much pardon as to detect an heretical touch or two, before I make direct answer to the foul slandering of Hosius.  
First I note with what fidelity these new holy brethren do their things. 
The best that may be said for this Defender.  It may be thought that the secretary of this new clergy at his penning of the apology saw not Hosius book of the express word of God. But as they haue ben conversant in S. Augustine, jerome, Chrysostom and the ancient fathers, so use they Hosius at this time: that is to say, they red neither the old fathers with any diligence, neither the writers of our time. But by snappes and pieces either themselves writ out here and there a line or two, or use that which some of their own sect hath taken out of them. So that for most part they never know the true meaning of the place, which they allege. But using patched note books, and bringing in scattered authorities, they be deceived themselves, 
An excuse favourably conceived for the Defenders unjust charging of cardinal Hosius.  and deceive others. After this sort they fell on some note book made out of Hosius, where the said words that they burden him with, were written. And he that took the note, knew well they were not the words of Hosius, and did but only put the name of Hosius unto them, because they were taken out of his book. The writer of this apology not knowing or not remembering so much, when he found in the note book the name of Hosius with such words, he did rashly put them in print to his own great shane and discredit. If this excuse be not true, we must needs lay marvelous malice to the said writer, who witting and of set purpose did impute these words to Hosius, which he reported by way of misliking of them, and showing whose heresy they contained.  

The author of the apology is of necessity to be charged of ignorance or of malice, for the slander of Hosius. The wont of heretics deprehended in falsehood.  Now let the Defenders choose whether they will haue their secretary condemned of ignorance, or of malice. How so ever it be, mark yet the third point, which hereof we will gather. The apology was scant printed and published, but that gross error was out of hand espied, and word thereof brought to the author, I mean him that penned it. But what did he? Did he confess that he was deceived? Did he cry Hosius mercy? No, no. That is not the wont of heretics. They will go forward with the matter once begun, what so ever come of it. What did he then? When it should be set forth in english, and word came to him thereof, he made an excuse, I warrant you meet for an heretic, whose property it is proficere in peius, as S. Paul saith, to procede to worse and worse, to take his degree backward, and of agreat fault to make a far greater. 
How this Defender amended his fault.  For whereas before( as charity moveth me to think) he had made an error, supposing Hosius to haue said that which he had not, afterward by stubborn maintaining of it, he sheweth what spirit he is of. And when he might reasonably haue excused his ignorance, choose rather spitefully to discover his malice. As it shall manifestly appear by the circumstance of the thing. He layeth to Hosius charge, and in his person to all our charges, that we do not esteem the holy scriptures. He proveth it by certain words alleged out of a treatise made by Hosius de expresso verbo dei. The words are here put in the apology, 
The argument of Hosius book De expresso verbo dei.  as the reader may see. The true argument of Hosius book is no other then to show, that all heretics haue alleged the words of God, as they be written. But none of them all haue taken the right understanding of Gods words, as they do in dede signify. For that only the catholic church atteineth unto, because only it hath the holy Ghost. All heretics haue brought for their opinions the written word of God so long, until at the last( saith Hosius) there were found, who by the words of the scriptures took vpon them to take away al authority from scriptures. Natum est( saith he) nouūquoddā prophetarum genus, qui non sunt veriti scripturarum auctoritate scriptures auctoritatem omnem detrahere, en quo perduxit rem tandem Satanas. A certain new kind of prophetes is risen, who stick not by the authority of scriptures to take away all authority from scriptures. See whether at the length the devil hath brought the matter.  
Now afterward expounding this matter more at large, he declareth the captain of that heresy to haue ben Zwenfeldius. He sheweth that by a text of scripture where david saith, I will hear what our lord speaketh in me: 
Psal. 48.  Zwenckfeldius went about to will men to hear what God telleth every man by inspiration, rather then to give attendance to the written word of God. And whiles Hosius reporteth what Zwenckfeldius said for the maintenance of his fond heresy, among other his words these are, which be brought in this apology against Hosius and against the catholics, whereas it is neither Hosius nor any catholic that speaketh them, but only Zwenckfeldius himself. As well might he haue appeached the ancient fathers of heresies, because in sundry places of their works, they allege the words of the heretics, whom they confute. So should S. basil be made an Eunomian, S. Ambrose an Arian, S. Augustine a Pelagian. &c.  
Hitherto we haue shewed that the words alleged in the apology under the name of Hosius, make neither against him, nor against us, as not being his words nor ours, but only the words of Zwenckfeldius. Well, what credite may we give to this man in expounding the word of God, 
Hosius cleareth himself of the false slander made vpon him by the Defender, before the apology was written. ( whose true meaning he may falsify at his pleasure because we can not bring forth God himself to declare his words) seing he dareth to burden Hosius, with these words, which Hosius himself being yet alive can declare to haue an other meaning, as the book itself doth witness to all that list to red the same. This was a great fault to impute so horrible an heresy to Hosius unjustly. This was a great ignorance to charge him with that heresy, which he refuteth and impugneth. They are great crimes, and yet such, as might rise of misreport and ignorance. But when he was told of them, he should of reason haue corrected them. He should haue repented with Peter, and not despaired with Cain and Iudas.  

The malice of this Defender truly detected.  But what did he, when he understood he had erred? He addeth a gloze far more malicious, then the former error was. For granting that Hosius setteth out the matter so, as though neither he nor any of his side, but the heretics Zuenckfeldians spake so, this notwithstanding he burtheneth both him and the catholics with it saying, that he dessembleth, and hideth what he is. sir, was this the way to amend your fault? To grant that Hosius spake against the Zuenckfeldians, and yet to bear men in hand, he favoured them? If he had favoured their heresy, what needed he to refel it? But how say you, that Hosius dissembleth and hideth what he is, sith that even here in two places in most plain words you lay the Zuenckfeldian heresy to his charge? red your own book. Before thallegation of Zuenckfeldius heresy, say you not thus? We, saith he, will bid away, &c. And after thallegation, haue you not these words. This is Hosius saying? How standeth all this together? You haue forgotten the proverb, that biddeth a liar to be myndefull. I can not tell how to name this kind of your dealing, lying, or detraction, slandering, or malicious speaking. But Sir if Hosius haue spoken evil, why give you not witness against him of evil? If he haue spoken well, even by your own confession in reputing the Zuenckfeldians for heretics, why find you fault with him for his good words, such I say, as yourself confess to be good? You reprove him who speaketh not against Zuenckfeldius, and again you grant he speaketh against him, and yet because you had once reproved him, you will continue in it without reason, learning, or wit. But it must needs so be, for without partinacie no man is either a perfit heretic, or a perfit slanderer.  
I am sure this one dede can be justified by no honest man, although he were but a natural politic citizen, who should haue the iudgement of the matter. Seing you haue belied Hosius in print, ask him forgiveness in print. But you are so far from that humility, as you are from the love of the catholic religion. Yea rather ye stick not to join an other lie to it, and that in print also, to make excuse of your former offence, by committing a more grievous offence. If yet you stand in defence of it, all the world will account you for a desperat person. For no man that ever saw Hosius works, can think that he was guilty of that you burden him with. But some man might think you were deceived and mistook Hosius. But sith you grant, you do not now mistake him, and yet charge him with avouching that which he hodleth for heresy: he that understandeth this much of you, may assure himself, that you are disposed to belie and slander Hosius, though it cost you the damnation of your soul. For shane man repent and revoke that for which your own conscience stinteth not to bark at you. But this grieveth me somewhat more then yourself. How found so many flatterers in their hartes to keep you from making amendes by confession of your default, that they also maintain you in it? For the man who translated your book, and likewise the woman seemeth to be accessary to your fault. And how many mo were accessary to it God knoweth. believe me you seem to haue never a friend in England. 
An evident token that this Defender hath never a true friend.  For if you had but one, he would never leave you, until you had promised him to amend this great enormity. It is a fowle matter for a superintendant to be a slanderer of set purpose and wilful malice, to go from ignorance to stubborn defence, to heap one sin vpon an other.  
All the book of Hosius de expresso verbo Dei, declareth, that he doth reverence the holy scriptures, as he ought to do. If you list not to red it all over, see but one place where he saith by way of an objection against himself after this sort. 
That Hosius reverenceth the scriptures, it is proved by Hosius  Num tu dei verbum extenuare, num omnem ei auctoritatem detrahere conaris? An haec ita multa propterea produxisti, vt ostenderes haereticum esse, si quis testimonio scripturarum vteretur? dost thou go about to make the word of God to be less esteemed, and to take all authority from it? Hast thou therefore brought forth these many things, to thintent thou mightest show him to be an heretic, if any man did use the witness of scripture? To this demand he answereth after this sort. Proculae nobis absit, vt vel cogitemus haec, quae sunt ab homine Christiano aliena. God forbid that we should ever so much as think these things, which belong not to a Christian man. For( saith he) we hold with S. Hilarius, 
Lib. 2. de trinit.  who judged heresy to come from the understanding, not from the scripture. Then if Hosius detest that opinion, which you impute unto him, why do you by your impudency in this matter betray an other privy fault of yours, which is that you will not go from that you haue once said, though you perceive it to be never so false: but with a new lie far worse fortify the former lie?  
But how then, 
apology  yf Zwenkfeldius make exclamation on the other side, and say that the same very words be not his but Hosius own words? For tell me where hath Zwenkfeldius ever written thē? Or if he haue written them, and Hosius haue judged the same to be wicked, why hath not Hosius spoken so much as one word to confute them? howsoever the matter goeth, although Hosius peradventure will not allow of those words, yet he doth not disallow the meaning of the words. For well nere in all controversies, and namely touching the use of the holy communion under both kindes, although the words of Christ be plain and evident, yet doth Hosius disdainfully reject them, as no better then cold and dead elements: and commandeth to give faith to certain new lessons appointed by the Church, and to I wot not what revelations of the holy ghost. And Pighius saieth, men ought not to believe, no not the most clear and manifest words of the scriptures, unless the same be allowed for good by the interpretation and authority of the church.   

THE twentieth CHAPTER.  
This Defender goeth forward, 
Confutation. A proceeding in lying.  and as though his profession were to say no truth, he addeth unto the heap of his former lies mo and mo with like impudency, as he began. What if Zuenkfeldius cry out( saith he) that they be not his, but Hosius his own words? Whereby he meaneth as we guess, that Hosius feigneth these words vpon Zuenkfeldius. If this much had ben put in the latin apology at the first, it might haue come to the knowledge of Hosius, and himself would haue declared, how he came by these words, and whether he had them by most faithful report of mouth,( which kind of instruction Epiphanius writing against heresies sometimes used) or found them written in latin by any man, or translated them out of the Douch tongue, as he might take them out of diverse writers. This is more then probable, that Hosius living in Prussia among the germans, would not be so bold, as to make an open lie vpon any of them in his public writings. He hath more regard of his honour then so to do. Would God ye had some like regard of your honesty. 
witnesses of Zuenkfeldius heresy besides Hosius by whom Hosius is cleared of charge of slander.  Now the same thing that Hosius layeth to Zuenkfeldius, also Fridericus Staphylus witnesseth to haue ben his heresy. And Flacius Illyricus hath written five books against the said Zuenkfeldius in the Douch tongue, as Hosius reporteth in his first book against Brentius. Where also he putteth the words, which Zuenkfeldius used with his own scholars. moreover Philip Melanchthon in a certain preface before parte of his works, reporteth his doctrine( as Hosius saith) to draw men from the reading and thinking of written scripture to inspiration. I think these are sufficient means to clear Hosius from suspicion of slandering Zuenkfeldius. 
The Defenders aclowledge the Zuenkfeldians to be heretics, and yet they charge Hosius for saying so.  But what need we so many witnesses? Do not yourselves in your apology aclowledge the Zuenkfeldians for monstrous heretics? If it be lawful for you so to account them, what reason or wit is it, to lay that to Hosius charge, which ye do yourself? But liars many times contrary to thaduise of tholde proverb, forget themselves.  
But let us grant that ye mistrusted whether Hosius accused Zuenkfeldius justly or no. Was that a sufficient cause why ye should burden him to haue thought the same thing, which he reproved in an other? Is your backebyting excused thereby? admit that Hosius being sure of Zuenkfeldius heresy, did in his own latin words set it forth at large. What can you make thereof? It is known the same is an heresy. yourselves confess it and condemn it. So doth Hosius likewise. And yet would you make us believe, that Hosius himself thought so? Yea say you, for he hath not spoken so much as one word to refute his words. This is an other of your lies. 
He that calleth Zuenkfeldius an heretik●…, speaketh against his heresy.  For when he sheweth it to be an heresy to say as Zuenkfeldius did, I suppose it is one word, that may seem to refute it in a Christen mans ears. so far as a learned mans condemnation is a confutation. I am sure you say no more against it in your apology. And because otherwise ye confute it not, nor certain other heresies, as Mennonians, Anabaptistes, Libertines, &c. were it reason therefore to charge you with the maintenance of thē?  
Well to answer somewhat for Hosius, 
A place alleged out of Hosius pertaining to the refutation of zwenkfeldius.  red the learned book which Hosius wrote against Brentius, and there shall you finde Hosius to say this much of Zuencfeldius, Excogitauit& ipse nouam haeresim, ac scripturarum nixus praesidio, scriptures auctoritatem omnem abrogare conatus est. Zuencfeldius also for his parte hath devised a new heresy, and leaning to the help of scriptures, went about to take away all authority from the scriptures. All these words he bestoweth to thintent we should beware of his heresy. Which may seem to any man of iudgement to make somewhat on Hosius behalf for confutation of Zuenkfeldius heresy.  
But yet let us see a farther refutation thereof. The place is somewhat long. I will recite it in English out of the first book contra Brentium. For whereas Zuenkfeldius brought for his opinion out of S. Paul, 
1. Cor. 13  that place where the Apostle conferreth the knowledge of this present life which is vnperfite, with the perfit knowledge which shall be in the life to come: Hosius saith, that these men wrest such things to this life, applying that, which S. Paul nameth knowledge in a part, to holy scripture, and that which he calleth perfit, to the revelations of the spirit as though when a man is come to revelations, that which is a piece of knowledge( which was by Zuenfeldius the handling and use of scriptures) were by revelations taken away. Is not this the refutation of Zuenkfeldius, or at least is it not one word towards the refutation of him? He that listeth may see more in the said book against Brentius. Whereas the good life of the Zwenkfeldians was well reported and praised in the presence of Hosius at Charles the late Emperours court, Hosius fearing least that report might infect some man, saieth, the devil changeth himself into an angel of light, that by the shadow of holynes he may deceive that simplicity of the hearers. And yet Hosius seemeth to you to fauer the Zwenkfeldians, because he likeneth them to the devill.  

Hosius reckoneth zwenckfeldius with heinous heretics.  Furthermore in the very book de expresso verbo dei, he reckoneth Zwenkfeldius with martion, Photinus, Montanus, Sabellius, Manichaeus, Luther and Zwinglius. And yet these men he not a shamed to bear the world in hand, as though Hosius were a Zwenkfeldian. They are so good in the arte of lying, that their scholars will not stick to say hereafter, that Hosius was a zwinglian, and thought as calvin did of all things, not withstanding his worthy writings, in which he hath spent the better part of his age, against them. For at the lest they will make surmise, that at his death he recanteth, as they haue and do report of sundry learned catholic men, namely of doctor Pendilton in England, of Picus Mirandula of Italy, of D. Clingius preacher of Erford in high Almaigne, of Latomus of Spire, of D. Gropperus of Coulen, and last of all of the late most catholic Emperour Ferdinand of famous memory.  
But Hosius( say they) peradventure will not allow the words of Zuenkfeldius, yet he doth not disalowe the meaning of the words. Well and clerkly reasoned. As though words were allowed or dissallowed for any other so principal a cause, as for their meaning. And therefore he that disalloweth words, hath much more disallowed the meaning of them. Yet,( say they) of the holy communion under both kindes he rejecteth the plain word of Christ as dead and cold elements. verily a man might think this book was set forth by some enemy of our new english clergy, it is so much to their defacing, had not themselves at diverse times acknowledged it for a whelp of their one littour. A man for his life can not find one lief in it without many lies. Where doth Hosius reject Christes words? I know where he rejecteth your words, who say that both kindes are to be given to all the lay by commandment and institution of Christ. But Christes words he maketh a far more account of, then ye do. For he saith they were spoken to the twelve Apostles, with whom only he sate down, as the gospel sheweth. And ye pretend they were spoken to all men and women. Neither doth he any iote diminish the estimation of the scriptures, 
Mar. 26. Mar. 14. luke. 22.  where he biddeth us to give credite to the lessons of the church, whether they be new or old, so long as they come from the true church of Christ, which is known by the succession from the Apostles, and specially from Peter the head shepherd of all Christes flock. In dede ye wote not what revelations of the holy Ghost are in the church, because ye are gone out of it, and do not aclowledge that head and the general councils, 
Mat. 18.  where the holy ghost reueleth his truth, according to that he said: where two or three be gathered together in my name, I am in the midst of them.  
Touching that for which ye reprove Pighius, he meaneth, that we can not know, which are true scriptures, until the church hath shewed them unto vs. And before we know them, we can not expresselye give credite unto their sayings. For diverse heretics haue gone about to set forth works of their own making or corrupting under the name of scripture, and would haue given them thauctoritie of scripture. But not contenting yourselves with this great injury done to Hosius, ye come also to do a greater to all the catholics, saying that they hate and burn the holy scriptures. This is an intolerable surmise, a malicious report, and most shameless lie.  

apology  And yet as though this were to little, they also burn the holy scriptures, as in times past wicked king Aza did, or as Antiochus, or Maximinus did, and are wont to name them heretics boks. And out of doubt to see to, they would fain do as herod in old time did in Iewrie, 
Eusebius.  that he might with more surety keep stil his dominion. Who being an Idumeā born, and a stranger to the stock and kindred of the Iewes, and yet coveting much to be taken for a jew, to thende be might establish to him and his posterity the kingdom of that country which he had gotten of Augustus caesar, he commanded all the Genealogies and pedigrees to be burnt and made out of the way, so as there should remain no record, whereby he might be known to thē that came after, that he was an Aliaunt in blood: whereas even from Abrahams time these monuments had been safely kept amongst the Iewes and laid up in their thresury, because in them it might easily and most assuredly be found of what lineage every one did descend. So( in good faith) do these men when they would haue all their own doings in estimation, as though they had ben delivered to us even from the Apostles or from christ himself, to thende there might be found no where any thing able to convince such their dreams and lies, either they burn the holy scriptures, or else they craftily convey them from the people surely.   

THE XXI CHAPTER.  
Pardon me I pray thee Reader, 
Confutation.  if I use words somewhat vehement, the cause so requiring. We are taught by the scriptures, to take up an heretic sharply, as though that were the way to help him, if any be. For if that remedy serve not, 
Tit. 3.  we are advised after a rebuk or two to avoid him, as I most earnestly require thee to do, that thou mayst save thy soul. As they lie unto thee in such plain matters, so do they much more, and to thy greater peril lie in sundry privy points of thy faith. Once try them of set purpose false, and for ever beware of them, lest thou be condemned for consenting to their wickedness.  
This Defender crieth out, O ye pillars of religion. But how much more justly cry we again to him. O thou captain liar, O most worthy not the reward of a whetstone, but the iudgement of a backebyter, of a slanderer, of a cursed speaker, of a mocker, of the accuser of the brethren, of a blasphemer: Is this the regard thou hast, I say not to God, or to Christen men, but to thine own estimation, and common honesty of a man? Canst thou persuade thyself to gete credite by lying? To seem sober by railing? Honest by villainy? Charitable by slandering? upright by deceit? just by impiety? Why sayest thou of us in general, that is to say of the catholic church, that we despise, hate, cast away, and burn the holy scriptures? Had we not loved and kept the scriptures, how couldst thou and thy fellowes haue come by them? Had ye not them of us? From the Apostles time to this day we haue kept them unspotted and undefiled, and ye within these fifty yeres haue by your vulgar translations corrupted them, that lamentable it is to consider. And when we burned the same corrupt translations or any part thereof, 
We burn heretical books and false translations, the scriptures we burn not.  or any of your heretical treatises, we burned not the scriptures, no more then one doth the apple three, that burneth the caterpillars.  
The scriptures we honour and keep most reverently and diligently. therefore your comparing of us with the wicked kings Aza, Antiochus, Maximinus, and herod, is false and slanderous. For how say you sir captain of liars, had we not the scripture in every monastery, cathedrall church, college, in every private library of any that was learned? Doth it not appear to you, how little the catholics stikt at costs and charges, to be furnished with store of faire written bibles? If printing were so costly now, as handwryting was then, is it to be thought, ye would yourselves haue ben so well stored with these holy books, as they were? doubtless your domestical charges about your yokefellows and your children would haue withdrawn you from that charge. Yet come ye forth and most impudently burden us with burning and conveying away of the scriptures.  
The like thing was objected to S. Augustine and the catholics in his time by the Donatistes being then heretics, as ye are now. To whom he answereth, as we will answer you. Certe ille ignibus tradidisse credatur, 
De unit. eccles. ca. 3.  qui eis lectis non consentire conuincitur. Let him be thought to haue cast the holy scriptures into the fire, who when they are red is convict not to consent unto them. 
The catholics believe the scriptures more then the gospelers,  We red in the holy scriptures, that Christ said this is my body. Who believeth it, ye, that deny it, or we, who are content to die for the defence of that his real body in the blessed sacrament? S. james saith, a man is justified by works, and not by faith onely. Who believeth this, they which say that only faith justifieth, or they which say, that works be required also to justification? Christ saith, 
joan. 6.  qui manducat hunc panem, vivet in aeternum, he that eateth this bread, shall live for ever. Who believeth this, they that say both kindes be necessary to lay men by commandment of Christ, or they who say, that one kind is sufficient to salvation concerning the eating of the sacrament, although both be necessary concerning the consecration and oblation thereof? The like I might say of all the controversies which are between you and vs. If then by S. Augustines rule he must be thought to haue burnt the scriptures, who is convict not to believe them, and you against the holy scriptures do say, that Christes body is not present, that faith only justifieth, that both kindes be of necessity: Ye be they who must be thought to haue burnt the holy scriptures, because ye believe them not. burden us nomore with such slanders, lest when they are turned vpon yourselves, ye repent your folly to late. think ye that when heretics and heretical books be burnt, the scriptures are burnt? Other scriptures the catholics do not burn. Albeit them also, I mean heretics, the secular officer burneth, the spiritual doth but excommunicate them, as their duty requireth.  
Very rightly and aptly doth Chrisostom writ against these men. 
apology Chrysost. in opere imper.  heretics, saieth he, shut up the doers against the truth: for they know full well, if the door were open the church should be none of theirs.  
You allege out of Chrysostome, 
Confutation.  that heretics shut up the gates against the truth. The truth is to be sought nowhere else, but in the church. Which by promise of God hath both the word of God, 
Esai. 59. How heretics shut the gates against the truth.  and also his holy spirit to understand the same. heretics may well be said to shut up the gates against the truth. For with all endeavour they lead men from the church to their private synagogues, where teaching contrary doctrine and condemning the church, they bring their followers to a false belief under the name of the gospel. So what by leading men out of the true way, and what by their false doctrine stoping them so as they come not obedientlye to the church to learn the truth, they seem plainly to shut the gates against the truth. Now right well know these Defenders, that if the gates of the catholic church were open, so as every man might freely entre to see and learn the truth, sone after their whole rout should be overthrown, driven out of the church, and the privilege of that name and blessed state be taken from them. But sir here you neither show yourself, who are the heretics, nor in what place of that vnperfite work Chrysostom writeth it. 
Hom. 44 An heretic by Chrysostom is the son of hell.  But we answer you, that the same Chrysostome vpon the 23. of matthew saith, that an heretic is the son of hell, quia veritatem quam ten●bat reliquit, because he hath forsaken the truth, which he did hold. You know right well that the catholics abide still in that faith which they held in their baptism. Ye be they that haue forsaken the truth which once ye held, and now will not return to it again, and thus are ye the heretics, that shut the gates against the truth.  

apology  Theophylact also: Gods word saith he, is the candle whereby the thief is espied:  

Confutation.  The word of God is a candle, by which the thief is taken But the thief is he, that goeth about to rob God of his truth, 
Who is the thief that ●y the candle of gods w●rd is espied.  saying, that his church might err, as ye haue said in this apology. The thief is he that robbeth the word of God of his true meaning, as ye haue done about these words, this is my body, and such like places. The thief is he, that robbeth the church of the very letter of Gods word, as ye haue robbed it( so much as in your power lieth) of the Machabes, denying that book to be the word of God, as certain other partes also both of the old and new testament. Ye therefore are the thieves. And by Gods word the lantern of light which is set in the candelsticke of the catholic church to shine over al them of the house of God, ye are espied.  
And Tertullian saith, 
apology.  the holy scripture manifestly findeth out the fraud and theafte of heretics. For why do they hide, why do they keep under the gospel, which Christ would haue preached aloud from the house top? Why whealme they that light under a bushel, which ought to stand on a Candlestick?  
The holy scripture detecteth the deceits of heretics, 
Confutation.  first showing that they depart from the company which professeth Christ, as S. John saith. Ex nobis exierunt. 
1. joan. 2.  They went out from us, as it is known, that ye went out from among the catholics, with whom once ye served God in one house. again the scripture saith there shal be men standing in their own conceit, vnchast, loving pleasure more thē God. 
2. Tim. 3.  Who be those that stand in their own conceit? We, who haue great dread and religion to step a side one inch from the interpretation which old councils and holy fathers illuminated with the spirit of God, haue given vpon the holy scriptures, or ye, who think yourselves wiser then ever they were, and to see that was never sene before? Who are vnchast? they that exhort all men to chastity, and themselves abstain from wedlock for the better mean to serve God: or ye, that bid men which haue vowed chastity to break their vows, and yourselves against the express words of the Apostle( who willeth none to be bishop, that hath ben the husband of mo wives then one) do; 
1. Tim. 3.  yea after that ye be made bishops in your own conceit, mary a new, some a widow, some twice, some oftener, loving the pleasure of your flesh and the satisfiyng of your own lusts, more then Christ, who both himself gave example of chastity, and his Apostles left the use of their former wives, as partly it is judged by that Peter said, behold we haue forsaken all things, 
Matth. 1●.  and haue followed thee, and partly by that the doctors of the church haue always so vnderstanded, much less did they mary after they were bishops, and lest of all did they mary twice or thrice. Therefore the scripture hath detected your going out of the church, your pride, your incontinency, and your universal dealing, that is to say, the fraud and theft of heretics, whereby they rob simplo souls of the catholic faith. 
The catholics haue not kept the gospel under the bushel.  Neither can ye justly burden us with keeping the gospel under covert. For we haue always preached the true word of God so loud, that we haue turned infidels unto the faith, as germany, Pole, Lithuania, Prussia, Sueden do witness. which were converted before Luther, and yet within these 900. yeres, the faith of which time ye reprove. Ye on the other side so preach, that of Christen men ye make apostates, renegates, epicures, Turkish Huguenots and heretics, who be worse then infidels.  

apology  Why trust they more to the blindness of the vnskilfull multitude and to ignorance, then to the goodness of their cause?  

Confutation.  We do not trust in the ignorance of the people, as you report. And yet better it is they were ignorant, then evil taught. But b●●ause they are ignorant, we will them not to led the scriptures to their own gross fantasy, for as S. Paul saith, 
1. Cor. 8.  non in omnibus est scientia, Knowledge is not in all: but to be led by them, who according to the tradition, that hath ben left from the beginning, do rightly understand the scriptures.  

apology.  think they their slightes are not already perceived, and that they can walk now vnespied, as though they had Giges ring to go invisible by, vpon their finger? No no:  

Confutation.  It is ye that fain would walk invisible, and carry the ring of Gyges about with you, 
The gospelers show themselves desyrours of Gyges ring, that they might walk inuisibl.  who being under catholic magistrates would escape punishment, because by your doctrine no man may be punished for his conscience. But having the sword on your side, ye whet it against the catholics, who haue good cause to continue in their old conscience, ye haue no cause to frame yourselves a newe. And I pray you sirs whiles ye with your rebellious trumpets blow such traitorous blasts against the regiment of women without putting your names unto thē, and in like maner set forth heretical books, as the late book against the council of Trent, the Defence of the truth, the Herborough, this present apology, and almost all other books both of you of England and of your brethren the huguenots of france: do ye not practise to go invisible? Do ye not show yourselves desirous, that ye had the ring of Gyges?  
All men see now well and well again, 
apology  what good stuff is in that chest of the bishop of Romes bosom. This thing all one of itself may be an argument sufficient, that they work not uprightly and truly.  
You are much troubled with the chest of the Popes bosom, wherein he is thought to haue all laws. 
Confutation.  At this you scoff four or five times in your apology, meddling with a matter that you understand not. For it is a lawyers phrase. Who presupposeth the prince of every common weal to know the lawe of the same, 
The chest of the Popes breast.  no less then if it were written in his breast. And therefore when he maketh a new lawe, he repealeth the former lawe, whereunto the later is contrary. And whereas one might say, he remembered not his former law at the making of his later, and therefore except in his last he make special memcion of the first, the same should stand in his force: hereunto answer is made, that although mention be not made of the first, yet it is repealed by the later lawe, being contrary unto it. And why? Because who so ever hath power to make a new lawe, is presumed always to haue the old law of the same common weal before his eyes. For though himself haue it not in remembrance, yet the lawyers that be of his council can not be vnmyndefull thereof. And how so ever it were, yet it should not be thought, the Prince were ignorant of his own lawe.  
These be the words of Bonifacius the Pope, which belong not only to him, but to all Princes and magistrates, who haue authority to make laws. 
De constit. in sexto. c. 1.  Romanus Pontifex qui iura omnia in serinio pectoris sui censetur habere, constitutionem condendo posteriorem, priorem, quamuis de ipsa mentionem non faciat, revocare noscitur. The bishop of Rome, who is thought to haue all laws in the chest of his breast, by making the second lawe, is known to revoke the first, although he make no mention of it. What is here to be laughed at? reprove the matter if you can. The brief sum of that chapter made by joannes Andreae a learned lawyer is this. Noua constitutio principis tollit primam contrariam, quamuis id non exprimat. The new lawe of the prince taketh away the former lawe being contrary, although it express not so much. The reason of this rule is, because the prince is presumed to haue as it were within the cheft of his breast all his own laws. The Pope being a prince also for his part( greater then the enemies of unity would he were) made a second lawe, which reformed the former contrary lawe, by the force of this principle. now come these fellows, and either not understanding the matter, or maliciously abusing it, cease not to scoff at the Pope, for the chest of his bosom. But verily neither the Pope nor any other prince ever had so many laws in his bosom, as they haue fardles of lies in their tongues and pens, and heaps of malice in their hartes. This may be applied as an answer to every such place, where this Defender bringeth in mention of the chest of the Popes breast for matter to scoff at.  
worthily ought that matter seem suspicious which fleeth trial, 
apology  and is afraid of the light: for he that doth evil, as Christ saith, seekith darkness, and hateth light. A conscience that knoweth itself clear, cometh willingly into open show, that the works which procede of God may be seen. Neither be they so very blind, but they see this well ynogh howe their own kingdom straight way is at a point, yf the scriptures once haue the vpper hand and that like as men say, the idols of devils in times past, of whom men in doubtful matters were then wont to receive answers, were suddenly stricken dumb at the sight of Christ, when he was born and came into the world: even so they see that now all their s●●tle practices will sone fall down headlong vpon the sight of the gospel. For Antichrist is not overthrown but with the brightness of Christes coming.  
He that doth evil hateth light, very true it is. 
Confutation. joan. 3. The Defenders may seem to fly trial, who refused to come to the late general council.  And because yourself that made this apology did evil, you durst not set your name to the book. Yea further I say to you Defenders, none of all your company were so hardy, as to come and to show their faces at Trent, where the chief lights of christendom were assembled together these late yeres past. But in the mean time they thought it better to fit with their wives at home, dandeling their children vpon their knees. Well, they lack not their policy. They be not so blind, as not to foresee, that if once their handling of scriptures should come to light, they should be known for such as in dede they are. And as all idols fell down at the presence of Christes blessed body and blood being offered vnbloudely where so ever his faith was preached and received, 
1. Reg. 5.  and as Dagon fell down at the presence of our lords ark: so all heretical doctrine is detected at the meeting of bishops and learned fathers in general councils. For Christ said, 
mat. 18.  where two or three be gathered together in my name, 
heretics always refuse to come to councils.  I am in the midst of them. And therefore as the Arians obeyed not the council of Nice, nor the Macedonians the council of Constantinople, nor the Nestorians the council Ephesine, nor the Eutychians the council of Chalcedon, nor the image-breakers the second council of Nice, nor other heretics other ancient councils: so the Lutherans, zwinglians, Osiandrines, Zuenckfeldians, calvinists, and other sects of our time, neither came at Trent, nor will receive the catholic truth there declared, nor obey the godly and learned decrees there made. Had they not suspected their cause, had they not lurked and sought after darkness, and hated the light: they would not haue refused their doctrine to be tried there by men of vnblamed life, of approved authority, and the best learned of the world. As for danger of their persons which they should haue ben in by coming thither, say they what they will for excuse, with truth they can pretend none.  

apology  As for us, we run not for succour to the fire as these mens guise is, but we run to the scriptures: neither do we reason with the sword, but with the word of God: and therewith as saith Tertullian, do we feed our faith: by it do we stir up our hope, and strengthen our confidence.   

THE XXII. CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  Ye fly not to the fire as we do, say ye, but unto the scriptures. Neither do ye reason with us with the sword, but with the word of God. 
The gospelers use the sword, not only the word.  Ah good word of God, thou servest to many purposes. And is it in dede the word of God sirs, that keepeth so many reverent fathers in prison these many yeres? Is it the word of God, that hath deprived so many men, some of their livings, some of their countries, whose life ye can not blame? Is it the word of God, that by cruelty of imprisonment of late yeres gave most certain occasion of death to those holy, learned, and worshipful men, who for their singular virtue being well known, need not here to be name? Is it the word of God, that made so much ado in your late parliament for establishing of your bloody lawe, whereby ye would haue power to put men to death for the faith of christendom? The Turkes and Saracenes haue always suffered them to live in their dominions, but our gospelers by their word of God are taught to kill them. Blessed be God, who hath given to our noble and most clement queen Elizabeth a better spirit to understand his word in this point, then these gospelers haue yet attained unto. Is it the word of God, that throweth down Images, crosses, chapels, churches, colleges, hospitals? Is it the word of God, that contrary to the good example of the queens majesty beside the arms of the realm setteth up a dog and a dragon in the place of the blessed virgin Mary mother of God, and S. John the evangelist which were wont to stand on either side of the sign of Christ crucified? Well may it be your word of God, verily the word of God it is not.  
If any of you do say, that the new superintendentes do not keep the old bishops and learned clergy in prison, but the lawe of the realm: I answer, first, that the lawe is a crab of your own stock, next that neither the bishops before time burnt heretics, but the lawe of the realm, the lawe of the Prince, the lawe of all christendom. Neither was the same made by papists of late yeres, as ye would your deceived disciples to believe, but of old time thought necessary by Princes to be enacted, for the better maintenance of quiet in their dominions. 
The ecclesiastical lawe condemneth noman to death.   
The lawe of the church commonly called the canon lawe burneth no man. But only useth the ecclesiastical censures, as deprivation, deposition, excommunication, degradation, &c. according to the enormity of the crime. In case of stubborn heresy, it proceedeth no further but to excommunication, leaving the punishment of their persons, who in that case be found incorrigible, to the secular magistrate, who may let them live, if he think it meet for the tranquilitie of his dominion, and for the safety of his people, to suffer them to remain in his land, that be expelled out of Christes church.  

apology  For we know that the gospel of Iesu Christ is the power of God unto salvation, and that therein consisteth eternal life. And as Paul warneth us, we do not hear, no not an angel of God coming from heaven, if he go about to pull us from any part of this doctrine. Yea more then this, as the holy martyr justine speaketh of himself, we would give no credence to God himself, if he should teach us any other gospel.  

Confutation.  Boast nomore of the gospel. We( I mean the catholic church) had it, we kept it and understood it, before ye were born, and before your heresy was heard of. And because we had it in peace and generally over the whole world according to the scriptures, we are sure we had the true meaning of it, in so much that an angel from heaven shall not lead us from the gospel, which we received of S. Augustine, who baptized our nation, and was the Apostle of our country. But a devill coming from hell( for who is author of division but Satan?) hath carried you away into an other gospel, whereas in dede there is but one true gospel. 
Gal. 1.  And here let any indifferent man consider, how uprightly you allege S. Paul. You writ, that Paul warneth you not to give ear to an angel coming from heaven, if he go about to draw you from any part of this doctrine. Of which this doctrine mean you? Of this which you haue declared in this apology? did S. Paul ever read your apology? How then pronounced he of it that sentence? We mean( say you) by this doctrine, 
What gospel is that S. Paul spake of.  the doctrine of the gospel. If you mean so, we say the same. But we tell you that S. Paul spake not of every gospel generally, but of a certain gospel qualified. For he saieth, Si quis vobis euangelizauerit praeter id quod accepistis, anathema sit. 
Gal. 1.  If any man preach a gospel unto you besides that ye haue received, be he accursed. hear you the gospel S. Paul speaketh of? It is not every gospel. It is a gospel preached and received. If ye preach that gospel, which ye received, we join hands with you. But if ye preach a gospel which ye haue received of no Apostle nor apostolic preacher, and which was not heard of in the earth, when Luther ran out of his cloister, and forsook his religion: then be ye assured, that ye are the men, who are holden for accursed of S. Paul, 
Gal. 1.  of which the like he said in the same place, sunt aliqui qui vos conturbant,& volunt conuertere evangelium Christi. There be some that trouble you, and will turn the gospel of Christ.  
Let it be considered, the gospel which ye preach, 
What maner a hospell is the Defenders gospel a gospel of old received, or of late newly devised.  whether it be that which ye received, or else turned from that to one of your own or rather of Luthers, and Caluines devising. And yet you are not ashamed to allege that out of S. Paul for your turned gospel, which maketh most against you. For what maner of gospel is that you allege? Is it a received gospel? No, beware that. For that is the papistical gospel. They who gave you your baptism, never gave you that gospel, whereby Christes body in the blessed sacrament is made an idol, whereby the most high sacrifice of the mass is condemned and called a strompet, whereby the holy sacramentes of the church are misprised. That gospel was never delivered unto you, neither to any christian by Christ or his Apostles. When S. Paul wrote to the Galathians, he willed them to keep the gospel, which he had preached, and they received. And in them he spake to all other believers, willing them to keep that gospel, which his successors should preach, and other should receive. So that from S. Paul to this day there must be a continuing preaching and receiving of one and the same gospel. But he that once preacheth that he never received, let him put what face he will vpon it, he is accursed, because he hath turned the gospel.  

apology.  For where these men bid the holy scriptures away, as dumb and frutles, and procure us to come to God himself rather, who speaketh in the church and in the councells: which is to say, to believe their fancies and opinions. This way of finding out the truth is very uncertain and exceeding dangerous, and in maner a fantastical and mad way, and by no means allowed of the holy fathers.  

Confutation.  The catholics because they will be sure that no man shall turn the gospel of Christ, or misconstrue it, they keep certain solemn meetings which are called general councils, 
The intent of councils.  where diligent inquisition is made, how the gospel of Christ is preached. If they understand that any man preach ought that he received not of his forefathers, they call him to account, as in the old time they called Arius, Macedonius, Nestorius, Eutyches, and of late yeres John Huss, jerome of prague, and martin Luther, and such others. Such as will not be obedient and conform themselves to the catholic faith, but maintain new and contrary doctrine: by the councils they are denounced to the world for heretics, that all men may beware of their errors. For this cause the Defenders of our new clergy in their apology inveigh against councils, as thieves do against iudges. For full well they know, that their new devised gospel shall not by any their policy or learning be able to abide the trial of learned fathers in a council.  
Where they say, we pass little on the scriptures as dumb and unprofitable, therein they slander us, as in other things. We do not so. But we say, that as every act of parliament must be executed by a lawful judge, so the holy scriptures haue their execution by lawful iudges, who are the bishops and fathers as well in other places, as specially when they be lawfully assembled in general councils.  
Now say these men, that way is very uncertain, dangerous, in maner mad and not allowed of the fathers. Who ever heard men thought to haue their right wits, talk after so loose a sort? Did the fathers disprove the order of coming together in general councils? Or thought they the same to be a way for men to be the sooner deceived If so many may be deceived with most diligent study and mature iudgement conferring together, 
The credite of general councils.  how much sooner may one or two alone led by private fancy and self will, be carried away into error? At the Nicene council came together 318. bishops. at the first of Constantinople 150. at the Ephesine council 200. at that of Chalcedon 630. Al these four councils sundry ancient fathers, namely S. gregory, esteemed as the four gospels. Yet is this a very uncertain way to find out the truth, and dangerous, saith this Defender, and of the holy fathers never approved. I say nothing of so many thousand fathers, which haue sithence the first four met at diuers councils general and provincial, in the East and West. May not he seem mad and besides himself, who calleth the world from the iudgement of three hundred most learned and virtuous fathers, and requireth al men to believe himself alone? Yea but saith he I haue the word of God. But what if three hundred far holier and better learned men say, 
every common person that can red is not meet to judge.  he hath it not? Let the reader be judge saith he. A meet judge in such a cause. The scholars may red, but judge of their maisters they may not by Christes doctrine, who said, Non est discipulus supra magistrum, 
Mat. 10.  the scholar is not above his master. Why not for al that, say you, if the holy ghost inspire him? Sir it is not to be thought, God doth assist his church repersented in such solemn assemblies of three hundred or mo fathers gouernours of Christen people, rather then one man? again we be assured, Christ promised the assistance of his spirit to such comminges together in his name, of the like promise made to one man we haue no good assurance.  

apology  chrysostom saith, there be many often times which boast themselves of the holy ghost: but truly who so speak of their own head, do falsely boast they haue the spirit of God. For like as, saith he, Christ denied he spake of himself when he spake out of the lawe and prophetes, even so now, if any thing be preassed vpon us in the name of the holy Ghost save the gospel, we ought not to believe it. For as Christ is the fulfilling of the lawe and prophetes, so is the holy Ghost the fulfilling of the gospel. Thus far goeth chrysostom.  

Confutation.  They allege out of Chrysostom, that who soever speak of their own, do untruly attribute to themselves the spirit of God. But they remember not, how they who are gathered together in the name of Christ, do not speak of their own, because Christ, who is the truth, hath promised to be in the midst of them, 
Mat. 18. If general councils. assembled of bishops lack the holy ghost, how may we be assured, the dietes of late men be assisted with it?  Now if they tell us that the fathers at Trent were not gathered together in the name of Christ, how much more truly may we reply to them, that the temporal men assembled together at Auspurg, at Marpurg, at worms, at Smalcald, at Baden, at Westminster, or any where else, came not together in the name of Christ? For as the old councils were kept by bishops and not by lay men: so was this at Trent. As they for the defence of truth, for the peace of the church, and for abandonning of heresies: so this. As in those the bishop of Rome his Legates were president: so were they in this. As they were confirmed by the successors of Peter: so was this. And come they now with lay men not learned in the scriptures called together by some temporal prince, whose acts be not confirmed by the apostolic see, and require that we obey rather an act of parliament made concerning religion, from which al the bishops thē present, whom the holy ghost had placed to rule the church of God, as S. Paul saith, 
Act. 20.  and the whole Synod of the learned clergy expressly dissented, then a full council of mo then 200. bishops lawfully consecrated and confirmed? I require but a man of common sense to sit judge in this cause. They can not possibly bring any thing out of the scriptures or ancient fathers for maintenance of this their great case. So weak it is, so far from reason it is, so mightily prevaileth verity over their devises that be besides Gods word.   
THE end OF THE fourth PART   

THE FIFTH PART.  

apology  but here I look they will say, though they haue not the Scriptures, yet may chance they haue the ancient doctors, and the holy Fathers with them. For this is a high brag they haue ever made, how that all antiquity and a continual consent of all ages doth make on their side: and that all our cases be but new and yester dayes work, and until these few last yeares never heard of. questionless there can nothing be more spitfully spoken against the religion of God then to accuse it of novelty, as a new comen up matter. For as ther can be no change in God himself, no more ought there to be in his religion.  
Yet nevertheless we wote not by what means, but we haue ever seen it come so to pass from the first beginning of al, that as often as God did give but some light, and did open his truth unto men, though the truth were not only of greatest antiquity, but also from everlasting, yet of wicked men and of the aduersaries was it called new-fangled and of late devised. That ungracious and blood thristi Haman, when he sought to procure the king Assueruses displeasure against the Iewes, this was his accusation to him: Thou hast here( saith he) a kind of people that useth certain new laws of their own, but stiff-necked and rebellious against all thy laws. When paul also began first to preach and expound the gospel at Athenes, he was called a tidings bringer of new Gods: as much to say, as of new religion. For( said the Athenians) may wee not know of thee what new doctrine this is? Celsus likewise when he of set purpose wrote against Christ, to thende he might more scornfully scoff out the gospel by the name of noueltye, What saith he, hath God after so many ages now at last, and so late bethought himself? Eusebius also writeth, that Christian religion from the beginning for very spite was called {αβγδ}, that is to say New and strange. After like sort, these men condemn all our matters as strange and new but they will haue their own, whatsoever they are to be praised as things of long continuance.  

THE FIRST CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  NOW these Defenders going about to persuade men that the old fathers be not on our side, and that the whole religion which Christen men profess and call catholic is not ancient, but new: being guilty as it were in their own consciences, before they enter into the matter, they remove from their own doctrine the opinion of newness. And so they fall into a great discourse whereby to prove, that the truth which in itself is eternal, among men oftentimes is called new. Wherein they had said somewhat, if they had proved that the doctrine of Christ, had ben called new by them, who were the professors and followers of it. 
The believers haue not called the doctrine of truth, a new doctrine, but only infidels.  But now reporting that the gentiles who knew not God, as Aman, as the Athenians, as Celsus the ethnike, and such the like, called the right and true religion of God, new: they say nothing to any purpose. But let them show that before the coming of Christ, any such religion was allowed, that was new. Or that sithence Christes incarnation, among Christian men what so ever religion was not shunned and rejected as heretical, which was new. Here are they dumb. And yet for show of learning in a matter not necessary, they bring forth their store, and declare that the doctrine and religion of truth was new to them, which knew not God nor Christ the son of God, which no man denieth.  
Thus all men of any iudgement may see, how fond they reason. We tell them that all new doctrine now in the church of Christ is nought, and they prove, that infidels haue in the time of Moses lawe, and at the first preaching of the gospel, impugned Gods everlasting truth with theodious term and reproach of newness. new doctrine was good to us at our first conversion from infidelity. But since that we received the true faith from S. gregory the bishop of Rome, who converted the realm of England to the faith by S. Augustine his legate, and others sent for that godly purpose: worthily we shun and abhor all new gospels; new faiths, new doctrines, new religions.  

apology  Doing much like to the enchanters and sorcerers now a daies, which working with divels use to say, they haue their books and al their holy and hide mysteries from Athanasius, Cyprian, Moses, Abel, Adam, and from the archangel Raphael, because that their cunning coming from such patrons and founders, might be judged the more high and holy. After the same fasshion these men, because they would haue their own religion which they themselves, and that not long since, haue brought forth into the world to be the easilier and rather accepted of foolish persons, or of such as cast little whereabouts they or other do go, they are wont to say, they had it from Augustine, jerome, Chrysostome, from the Apostles, and from christ himself. Full well know they, that nothing is more in the peoples favour, or better liketh the common sort then these names.  

Confutation.  Nay Sirs yourselves may with more reason be likened to enchanters, necromancers, and witches. For as they say that they haue their books and their mysteries from those doctors, and first fathers, and from Raphael the archangel, but can not show the delivery thereof by any succession from hand to hand, as for example who received the same from Raphael, from Adam, from Abel, &c. and who kept them from time to time: So ye say also, that ye haue your gospel and every part of your doctrine from the Apostles, from Christ, from the prophetes, from the patriarkes, from heaven, 
jac. 1. The new gospelers can not show us the succession of their bishops, by whom they haue received their doctrine. Berengarius.  from Gods own bosom, who is father of lights. But ye can not show us your lawful succession, by whom and by whose preaching as by hands it came down along from Christ and his Apostles unto you. Where lay your sacramentary doctrine hidden between the time of your prophet Zuinglius, and your patriarch Berengarius? How and by what delivery from hand to hand continued the same those five hundred yeres? show us your succession. Where be your bishops, where be your churches? again at whose hands did Berengarius receive it?  
O ye say, Bertram was before Berengarius. I trow ye will not be tried wholly by Bertram. 
Bertram.  But we grant, he was before him. What then? Whither go ye then? Whom haue ye to name above him that professed that doctrine? Where learned he the same? reckon us up the order and row of your bishops. certain it is ye can not. Here haue ye nothing to say. Your lies and conjectures serve not your turn. And we tell you, that Christ had his church, and the truth of his word in the same was preached, and the holy ghost according to Christes promise had taught the believers all truth for the space of seven hundred yeres before Bertram was born. The doctrine which the catholics of our country hold and profess, 
From whence cometh the doctrine of the catholics.  as well touching the blessed sacrament, as all other points of our faith, they haue received it of their bishops, and they of their predecessors, by order until they reach to S. Augustine, S. Augustine received it of S. gregory, he of others before him, and they all one of an other by continual ascent unto S. Peter, who received it of Christ, Christ of God his father. And this doctrine we find taught and plainly set forth in the books that S. Augustine, jerome, Chrysostom, Ambrose, basil, Cyprian, Dionyse, and the other holy fathers haue left to the posterity. And so they be witnesses of the truth of the doctrine which our bishops haue taught vs.  
Preach ye and cry ye out never so much, make so many laws in your parliaments as ye list, imbrue your sword in the blood of the catholic christians, as ye cry for it in your pulpits, yet shall that rock whereon we stay, be to hard for you. Neither shall ye ever be able to overthrow the catholic church builded thereupon. For certain we are, 
Mat. 16.  that neither all your power nor hell gates shall prevail against it. Thus it appeareth clearly that ye are to be likened to the necromancers, 
The Defenders likened to Negromansers.  not we. For we show by whom we haue received our catholic faith from hand to hand, from this age upward to S. Peter, and so to Christ by succession without discontinuance of time one bishop delyuering it to an other. Which in like sort ye can not show for those partes of your doctrine, wherein ye dissent from us, no more then necromancers, conjurers and witches can show, by whom they haue received their superstitious and devilish mysteries from Raphael the Archangel of God  

apology  But how if the things which these men are so desirous to haue seem new, be found of greatest antiquity? Contrariwise, howe if all the things well nigh, which they so greatly set out with the name of antiquity, having been well and thoroughly examined, be at length found to be but new, and devised of very late? Southly to say, no man that had a true and right consideration, would think the Iewes laws and ceremonies to be new for all Hammans accusation: for they were graven in very ancient Tables of most antiquity. And although many did take Christ to haue swerved from Abraham and the old fathers, and to haue brought in a certain new religion in his own name, yet answered he them directly: Yf ye believed Moses, ye would beleeue me also, for my doctrine is not so new as you make yt. For Moses an author of greatest antiquity, and one to whom ye give al honor, hath spoken of me. Paul likewise, though the gospel of Iesus christ be of many counted to be but new, yet hath it( saith he) the testimony most old, both of the law and prophetes. As for our doctrine which wee may rightlier call Christes catholic doctrine, it is so far of from new, that God who is above all most ancient, and the father of our lord Iesus christ, hath left the same unto us in the gospel, in the prophets and Apostles works, being monuments of greatest age. So that no man can now think our doctrine to be new, unless the same think either the prophetes faith, or the gospel, or else christ himself to be new.  

Confutation. How ifs and what ifs prove nothing.  Your owe ifs, and what ifs, be but words of course with you. They prove nothing, and yet your apology is full of them. So barren is your rhetoric. Where ye prove again that Christes doctrine was not new, ye forget that the same maketh most against you. For if Christ would his doctrine to be spoken of by the prophetes, to thintent it should not be new, when it was preached, seing ye can show us no prophet that prophesied of your doctrine, we must needs take it still for new, for how can ye haue any prophet for you? Do not the prophetes say that Christes church once established shall flourish from generation to generation even to the worlds end? 
Psal. 44. Esai. 60.  And contrary to this do not ye teach, that our Christen parentes and forefathers were all deceived? And so do ye not make a discontinuance contrary to Christes promise, saying that the church of Christ flourished not these nine hundred or thousand yeres past?  
And as for their religion, if it be of so long continuance as they would haue men ween it is, 
apology.  why do they not prove it so by the examples of the primitive church, and by the Fathers and councils of old times? why lieth so ancient a cause thus long in the dust, destitute of an advocate? fire and sword they haue had always ready at hand, but as for the old councils and fathers, al Mum, not a word. They did surely against all reason to begin first with these so bloody and extreme means, if they could haue found other more easy and gentle ways.   

THE SECOND CHAPTER.  
Ye ask why we prove not the antiquity of our church, 
Confutation.  as though yourselves had not first given us nine hundred yeres. About which time the sixth general council was kept at Constantinople under Pope Agatho, who preached the very same gospel which he took of Domnio bishop of Rome before him. And Domnio took the same of Adeodatus, he of Vitalianus, Eugenius, Martinus, Theodorus, and so upward unto Gregorius magnus. From him by order to S. sylvester, and so forth unto S. Peter. But yet ye ask why no man proveth it. Why sirs haue ye sene never a book of so many that both in our time and sithence the time of Berengarius and Wicklef haue ben written for proof of our catholic faith, by Algerus, Faber, Gropperus, Phlug, Wicelius and Staphylus of germany? By Hosius and Cromerus of Pole? By Peresius, Melchior canon, Medina, Viguerius, Soto, Turrianus, and Casalio of spain? By S. Bernard, Guimundus, Petrus Cluniacensis, Guiliaudus, and Villagagno of france? By Lipomanus, Contarenus, Catarinus, Delphinus, and Gaietanus of italy? By Ruardus Tapper, Sonnius, Pighius, and doctor Hessels of base almain? By bishop Lanfrancus, Thomas Walden, bishop Fissher, B. Tonstall, and B. gardener, sir Thomas More, and others of England? In the learned works of these men it doth well appear, what scriptures, fathers, and councils haue ben brought for the catholic belief. Therefore your slander is very gross and to evident, where ye say, we bring not good ancient witnesses for our doctrine.  

apology  And if they trust so fully to antiquity, and use no dissimulation, why didde John Clement a country man of owres, but few yeares past, in the presence of certain honest men and of good credite, tear and cast into the fire certain leaves of Theodorete the most ancient Father and a greek bishop, wherein he plainly and evidently taught, that the nature of bread in the Communion was not changed, abolished or brought to nothing. And this didde he of purpose, because he thought ther was no other copy thereof to be found.  

Confutation. Doctor Clement belied of the Defender.  master doctor Clementes honesty, learning, and virtue is so great, and yours so small, his gravity so much commended, your lightness so much misliked, his truth so well approved, your common lying so well espied: that whether you sir Defender, or any of your fellows, praise him, or backebyte him, his estimation thereby is neither advanced nor abased. More credite is to be given to a beck of his countenance, then to all your brabbling uttered in book or pulpit. Touching the matter you haue devised vpon him, he doth not only deny in word, that ever he burnt or otherwise destroyed any leaf of Theodoritus, but also declareth by the whole order of his life, and by special regard and love he beareth to the tongue which that learned bishop wrote in, that he hath ever ben and yet is far from the will to burn or destroy any scrappe, syllable, or letter of greek, much more certain leaves of the learned father Theodoritus, where any such thing was written, as you imagine. nay will ye haue the trouth? In very dede he saith, and by such way as a godly and grave man may avouch a trouth, protesteth, that he never had hitherto any part of that book neither in greek or in latin in written hand. As for a printed book, by tearing and burning the leaves thereof, he could not haue satisfied the purpose, which by your report he went about, the copies being in great number multiplied. And where as you say the thing was done in presence of certain honest men and of good credite, for maintenance of your credite, and proof that you be not a shameless deuyser of lies, by this writ peremptorely we require you, to name them, and bring them forth in your defence, that will say they were present when it was done. If you do not, you shall declare to the world, how little truth is in you. This is an evident mark by which false teachers may be espied. Who so ever understandeth this to be an open slander, you ought to-pardon him, 
apology Dist. 27. Quidam. Augu. de bono vidu. ca. 10.27.41. Nuptiarum bonum. Confutation.  if he believe the sum of your doctrine accordingly.  
Why saith Albertus Pighius that the ancient father Augustine had a wrong opinion of original sin? And that he erred and lied, and used false logic as touching the case of matrimony, concluded after a vow made which Augustin affirmeth to be perfect matrimony in dede, and cannot be undone again.  
We never took ourselves bound to any private opinion of what so ever doctor. For all our faith is catholic, that is to say, universal, such as not one doctor alone, but the universal number of doctors haue taught, and Christen people haue received. If in a secret point of learning S. Augustine or S. Cyprian teach singularly, we follow them not. Much less do we bind ourselves to maintain, what so ever Albertus Pighius hath written. Our doctrine of original sin, 
Sub Paulo. 3.  is to be readen in the fifth session of the late Tridentine council. If Pighius dissent from that, he dissenteth from vs. But if he stand only vpon some point not yet determined by the church, his opinion may be tolerated until the church define that question. When you note the point,( for there are many points in that doctrine) then we will show you further our mind therein.  

Of the case of marriage after a simplo vow of chastity.  The marriage which is made after a simplo vow of chastity, standeth in his force, by reason that there is more in the marriage, then was in the bare vow. For in the simplo vow there is nothing but a promise made to God without any deliverance of that thing, which was promised. But in marriage the man and woman by present acceptation of each others bond, do make the matter to extend beyond the nature of a promise. 
marriage after solemn vow holdeth not.  Therefore if likewise the vow made to God were not a simplo promise, but also a delivering of the thing promised: then can not the marriage following make voided the vow, which was not only promised, but also performed. The performance is, when he that voweth, doth profess himself in the hands of his superior by taking the habit of some religion, or by receiving holy orders of the bishop. For in that solemn act he delivereth up all his own right and power, so that now he is not master of himself to give his body to any person in marriage, or otherwise. You should know by the lawe of nature, if you would consider it, that if I promise a horse to one man, and afterward promise the same and deliver him to an other: that the second man is true Lord of that horse, although I haue done injury to him, to whom I made the first promise. For the promise with the delivery, is more vaileable to transfer my right in the horse, then my promise alone. even so it is a great sin to break a simplo vow of chastity made to God. But that notwithstanding if before my profession I deliver myself in marriage unto any person, by the lawe of nature( which is the lawe of God) I am bound to abide in marriage. But if first I delivered myself in a solemn consecration of my person( as monks and priestes do) then marriage in fact following is none in lawe.  
S. Augustine speaketh of a simplo vow. And therefore in the same distinction from whence you allege S. Augustines words, it followeth immediately. 
Dist. 27.  Si vir simplex votum virginitatis habens adiungitur uxori, postea non dimittat vxorem. said tribus annis paeniteat. If a man having made a simplo vow of virginity, be joined in wedlock to a wife. Let him not afterward dimisse his wife, but let him do penance three yeres. And there forthwith it followeth concerning the solemn vow out of S. jerome. Si nupserit virgo, non peccat. non illa virgo quae semet divino cultui dedicauit. Harum enim si quae nupserit, habebit damnationem, quia primam fidem irritam fecit. If a virgin mary, she sinneth not. Not that virgin which hath dedicated herself to the service of God. For if any of them marye, she shall haue damnation, because she hath made void her first promise. Again, Virgines quae post consecrationem nupserint, non tàm adulterae sunt qûā incestae. The virgins which marye after their consecration, be not so much aduoutresses, as incestuous. Is not the mind of S. jerome plain, that a virgin once solemnly professed( which he calleth consecration) can not mary any more? For as if a man in fact mary his sister, it can be no marriage, because it is incest, so sith it is incest also by S. Hieromes verdict for Nonnes to marye, it can be in lawe no marriage, and therefore they must be separated. The like is to be holden of all men having made a solemn vow and so professed chastity, as all secular priestes, monks and friers haue done. This hath ever ben the catholic faith in this matter. We know that ye like well the breaking of all maner of vows,( even of such as be most solemnly and advisedly made) and fauer incestuous marriages, But be ye not offended with us, 
1. Timo. 5.  if we remain in S. Paules doctrine, who pronounceth damnation to them which marye against their first faith. which damnation is so much the more grievous, by how much the vow and promise was more solemn.  

apology  Also when they did of late put in print the ancient father Origenes work vpon the gospel of John, 
Liber hody extat& circumfertur mutilus  why left they quite out the whole sixth Chapitre, wherein it is likely, yea rather of very surety, that the said origen had written many things concerning the Sacrament of the holy Communion, contrary to these mennes minds, and would put further that book mangled rather then full and perfect, for fear it should reprove them and their parteners of their error. Call ye this trusting to antiquity, when ye rent in pieces, keep back, maim and burn the ancient Fathers works?  

Confutation.  A wise man affirmeth nomore then he knoweth, a good man nomore then standeth with charity, a learned man in matters of weight, no more then he can avouch by evident reasons, 
A slander vpon a very light coniecturer used by the Defenders against the catholics for Origens lack of the sixth chapter vpon John.  sure proofs, or sufficient authorities. This Defender charging the catholics with mangling of Origen vpon S. Iohns gospel, as though of purpose they had left out the sixth chapter, which he imagineth to contain their sacramentary doctrine contrary to the catholic faith: for as much as he is uncertain hereof, and thereby noteth a great untruth in the setters forth of that work, neither by any means is able to prove the same: he sheweth himself a fool, a slanderer, and an vnlerned man. We are like I perceive, to hear of the faults they know by us, sith that they burden us with that they know not, and for the same can pretend but a slender conjecture. But sir defender why complain you not of the leaving out of other chapters and partes of that work, as well as of the sixth chapter? For whereas Origen wrote vpon John nine and thirty tomes, as S. jerome witnesseth: the latin translation printed in Venis hath but .32. lacking the seven last tomes. 
In prologue. 39. hom. Origenis in Lucam.  Neither be al they whole and perfit, but many of them maimed and mangled. Ambrosius Ferrarius that translated the work out of greek into latin, with all truth and fidelity caused so much to be printed as he found. If the whole had come to his hands, the whole had ben printed. What wanteth, there is hope it may yet be set forth. For the same learned man Ambrose writeth of himself, 
Ambrosius ●errarius translator of Origen vpon John.  that with great charges( though not without other help) he hath sent men abroad into all Grece, and to all famous libraries of every nation, to search for the remnauntes as well of these .39. tomes, as of other Origens works. If the partes that lack be found and printed, then shall we see I doubt not your false conjecture, that writing vpon the sixth chapter he taught many things touching the sacrament contrary to the catholic doctrine of the church, to be agreeable unto your sundry other lies.  
What maner a doctrine of the blessed sacrament he hath uttered vpon the sixth chapter of John, 
That origens doctrine concerning the truth of christes body in the sacrament, was agreeable w th that of the church. Hom. 13. in exod.  and how catholic he was in that point, it appeareth by diverse his other works. that you haue no cause to belie him in that you never saw. For the truth of Christes body in the sacrament, his testimonies be evident. For credits sake here will I recite a couple. In one place he saith thus. Ye know which haue ben wont to be present at the divine mysteries, how that when ye take the body of our Lord, ye keep it with all warenes and reverence, that no whit thereof fall down, that nothing of the consecrated gift miscarry. For ye believe yourselves to be guilty, and right well do ye so believe, if by negligence ought fall down. In an other place writing vpon the Centurions words spoken to Christ, Math. 8. When( saith he) thou takest that holy meate and that vncorupt dainty, 
Hom. 5. in diuersos Junii locos.  when thou enjoyest that bread and cup of life, thou eatest and drinkest the body and blood of our Lord, then our Lord entereth under they roof. These testimonies and many other the like that we find in his works extant, make us to believe, what so ever he wrote vpon the sixth chapter of john is such as confirmeth the catholic, and impugneth your sacramentary doctrine.  
Go your way now, and with as much truth, as honesty, report to the world, that we tear, suppress, mingle-mangle, and burn the books of the ancient fathers. This hath ben the practise not of the catholics, but of heretics such as ye are, as S. Cyprian and gregory writeth of them, and sundry fathers of certain councells haue manifestly deprehended in them. Truth is defended by truth, it is heresy, that needeth such false sleights.  

apology  It is a world to see, how well fauouredly and how towardly, touching religion, those men agree with the fathers, of whom they use to vaunt they be their own good.   

THE THIRD CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  Here beginneth this Defender to bring in the proofs of a common place, in which he thinketh to acquitte himself like a clerk. For what he found either in his own or his fellows note books pertaining to the point he handleth, here hath he heaped it together. So that who answereth the places here alleged against us, may seem to haue answered a great parte of their chief doctrine, for vs. He goeth about to show a diversity between the catholics of our time and the ancient fathers, 
every variety in points of small weight, proveth not a dissension in religion.  which falsely after his accustomend maner, he calleth disagreeing in religion. Whereto we say first of all; that we dissent not from the old fathers in religion, albeit in some points of less weight some variety without blame may be found between the church now and some particular church or doctor then, and that not so much in doctrine, as in a common observation. But let us see what they bring.  
The old council Eliberine made a decree, 
apology  that nothing that is honoured of the people, should be painted in the churches.  
The words of that provincial council by these. 
Confutation. Cap. 36.  It is thought good that paintinges be not in the church, that what is worshipped or adored, it be not painted on walls. This express prohibition of painting, and that nought be painted in church walls that is worshipped or adored, may seem both to presuppose a former use of such paintinges, and also to allow the other sort of images. Whether it do or no, it forceth not greatly. 
The seventh general council condemneth Imagebrakers.  The seventh general council assembled at Nice against the image-breakers, hath not only allowed the devout use of images commonly used in the churches of Christen people: but also condemned all those that throw them down, and maintain the contrary opinion. Now we are taught that a provincial council ought to give place to a general. Neither is it reason we follow the iudgement of a few bishops of spain, where that synod was kept, and refuse the determination of all the universal church represented in the second general council of Nice. But both their decrees may stand full well, 
The consideration of the ●libertine council touching the prohibition of painted images in church walls.  this generally, and that by limitation, in consideration of the state of that time. Yet we think those fathers of that Elibertine council had great cause in their troublesome time so to decree. Which is thought to be, lest when the Christians were compelled to fly in time of persecutions, which then were very often and common, they might no otherwise do, but leave their painted images in the walls, to be mocked and scorned, and vyly used of the paynims, whereas other images might vpon the sudden be taken down, and hid away.  

apology  The old father Epiphanius saith, it is an horrible wickedness, and a sin not to be suffered for any man, to set up any picture in the Church of the Christians, yea though it were the picture of christ himself. Yet these men store all their ●emples and each corner of them with painted and carved images, as though without them, religion were nothing worth.  

Confutation. In epist. ad joan. episcopum Hierosolymitan. inter opera Hieronymi To. 2. Epiphanius opinion alone ought not to be preferred before the general consent of al other holy fathers. Epiphanius belied of the Defender. answer to Epiphanius place commonly alleged by the gospelers against Images.  To that ye pretend to allege out of Epiphanius, we say, first, that although he were of the mind you make him to be of, and said, as you report of him, yet is he but one man, whose singular opinion is not to be preferred before the iudgement of all other so many excellent fathers, and the determination of the whole church. Now in dede you misreport Epiphanius. For he saith not so as you writ. He calleth not the having of the image of Christ or of any saint in the church an horrible wickedness, or a sin not to be suffered, he hath no such words.  
Secondly, what if we say, this place maketh nothing at all against the use of Images, and that he speaketh never a word against the Image of Christ or his sainctes in the church, but only against one particular Image, which he found hanging at a church door in a village of Palestine called Anablaetha? And seing he speaketh not generally against all Images, but against such as that was, which there he noteth by this special word istiusmodi vela, vailes of this sort: he giveth us to understand that he mislyked some quality or circumstance of that one Image, and not reproved the common and received custom of the church in having Images in due order. Now what circumstance that was, it dependeth of so many particularities, which might happen either on the Images part as it is most like, or on the peoples part there inhabitant, and is so little declared by Epiphanius in that place: that neither we can say any thing determinatly thereof, nor ye should bring such an obscure and uncertain matter to the disproufe of a verity always so well in the church acknowledged and practised. We allege for the use of Images the doctrine and practise of the church confirmed by a general council, and ye against Images with false aggravating of the words of Epiphanius, bring one fact only, the beginning, middle, or end whereof ye can neither make others to understand, nor know yourselves. And if it may like you to haue this matter tried by doctors, we assure you, that we can allege mo evident sentences for Images out of the ancient fathers, then in this place of Epiphanius ye haue syllables. A taste as it were of which sentences ye may haue in mine answer to your fellow M. Iuell his challenge. 
Article. 14. apology Origen. in Le. ca. 16. Chrysost. in Matthae. 1. Hom. 2. Idem in johan 31. Confutation. Homil. 9. in Leuit. Cap. 16.   
The old Fathers origen and Chrisostom exhort the people to read the scriptures, to buy them books, to reason at home betwixt themselves of divine matters: wives with their husbands, and parentes with their children. These men condemn the scriptures as deade elements, and as much as ever they may bar the people from them.  
Partly it is true, partly false, that you say. Origen exhorteth all to resort to the churches in the holy dayes, and there to hear the words of God. 
Origen and Chrysostome truly reported to the disprouse of the Defenders untruth.  And thereof afterward to think earnestly, and to meditate on the lawe of God, and to exercise their minds in it day and night, in the way, in their house, in their bed, and when they rise. This hold we withall, and be desirous, the people bear away that the true and Godly preachers teach them in the church, and that they think of it, and put it in daily practise of life. For else to what serveth all our preaching?  
Chrysostom Hom. 2. in Math. speaketh against them, which contemned the scriptures, and said they were no monks, but had wives and children and care of household. As though it pertained not to married men to read any part thereof, but to monks only. There he admonisheth them the rather to bestow some time in the meditation of the holy words, 
To what end would Chrysostome the scriptures to be red of the late.  because living in the world, and all together occupied about worldly affairs, the more they were woonded, the more need had they of salves. Therefore he counseleth them not to refuse the reading of the scriptures, to thintent by Gods word they might understand what sins are, and learn how to bridle their evil desires and lusts.  
Likewise in the 31. homily vpon S. John which you allege, blaming certain that bought faire books, and kept them in their cupbordes, for an ambitious ostentation, rather then for any love they had to the scriptures: he exhorteth them to esteem more the wholesome reading of Gods holy word in their books contained, then the limmed letters, fair writing, 
The end of reading the holy scriptures.  and finesse of the veleme. And to this end only he stirreth them to the reading of the scriptures, that thereby their minds might be made clean, that the devill might be stopped from entering into their souls, that so they might procure themselves remedies against their sinful lusts.  
If in our time the people might be induced to red the holy scriptures with such mindes, for such causes, 
In what cases may the people be admitted to read part of the scriptures in our time.  to such intents and purposes only, as Chrysostom requireth: God forbid we should by any means stay them therefrom. But considering the maner of our time, and calling to due examination the curiosity, the temeritie, the vnreuerence, the contempt of all holy things, that now all men may espy in the people, if we think it not good they be admitted to the reading of the scriptures freely and without any limitation: how so ever you and your fellowes judge of us, we doubt not of the account we haue to make of that our meaning before our lords dreadful seat of iudgement. Neither doubtless would Chrysostom dissent from us herein, if he were now alive, and saw the disposition of the people, and condition of the time. This matter I haue in few words touched in my answer to M. Iuell. 
Article. 15. Chrysostome and specially origen misreported by the Defenders.  Now to conclude we tell you, that you haue misreported both Chrysostom, and specially Origen. For how so ever they speak of the reading and meditation of the scriptures for amendment of life, verily in the places by you quoted, they exhort not the people to reason and dispute of divine matters among themselves, specially the husbands with their wives, the parentes with their children, as you say they do. Neither is it other then a slanderous lie, 
A slaunderou● lie.  that ye say of us, and haue never done with it, that we condemn the scriptures as dead elements, for which we with that learned Cardinal Hosius do condemn the Zuenckfeldians as detestable heretics. We esteem the scriptures, so as the signification of Gods holy will, and the very voices of the holy ghost are to be esteemed. If ye did the like, they should not be so profaned and abused as they be, to the utter loss of so many souls.  

apology Cypri. epis. 11. lib. 1. Epipha. contra Apostolicos. haeres. 61. Hieronym. ad D●metriadem.  The ancient fathers Cyprian, Epiphanius and jerome say, it is better for one who perchance hath made a vow to lead a sole life, and afterward liveth vnchastly, and cannot quench the flames of lust, to mary a wife, and to live honestly in wedlock. And the old father Augustine iudgeth the self same marriage to be good and perfit, and ought not to be broken again: These men if a man haue once bound himself by a vow, though afterward he burn, keep wickedness, and defile himself with never so sinful and desperate a life, yet they suffer not that person to marye a wife: or if he chance to mary, they allow it not for marriage. And they comonlye, teach it is much better and more godly to keep a Concubine and an harlot, then to live in that kind of marriage.  

Confutation. The places of Cyprian and jerome discussed.  S. Cyprian to Pomponius, and S. jerome ad Demetriad. de virginitate servanda, speak only of virgins, that had dedicated themselves to God by private vow, and had not yet made their solemn vow by public profession with receiving the vail of virginity at the hands of a bishop, as the maner was, when they were consecrated. Neither do they allow their marriage, but seem to suffer it for avoiding of a worse inconvenience. Neither they, nor Epiphanius, nor any of the old fathers alloweth any man or woman to quench the flames of lust which you speak of in the bed of wedlock after a solemn vow of chastity made and taken. 
Ca. 15.  By the council of Chalcedon all your hote lusting companions, who haue so far condemned God, as to cool their flames stick not to wallow in fleshly filthiness under the name of wedlock notwithstanding their solemn vow, be they men be they women, until they repent and amend, remain excommunicated.  
Concerning marriage and the vow of chastity, it is answered before, that promise in either of them bindeth in the sight of God. But the foremost performing of promise in either of both preiudicateth the other. And therefore the church suffereth not a man after that he is in state of wedlock to vow chastity, such as we speak of. Nor him who hath delivered himself to his superior by a solemn vow of chastity, afterward to return to marriage.  
We say not, it is better to keep a harlot or concubine, then to marye. That is your slanderous lie, whereto we haue answered before. 
Folio. 158.  But we say here that after a solemn vow of chastity, all pretensed marriage is incest and injurious to Christ, whose spiritual marriage the party hath chosen interdicting himself all carnal copulation. And how much incest is worse then simplo fornication, so much is the votary married worse then he that keepeth a concubine. But neither of both without repentance and the sacrament of penance,( where no necessary let thereof is,) shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.  
The old Father Augustine complained of the multitude of vain ceremonies, 
apology Ad januarium.  wherewith he even then saw mens mindes and consciences overcharged: These men as though God regarded nothing else but their ceremonies, haue so out of measure increased them, that there is now almost none other thing left in their Churches and places of prayer.  
The multitude of ceremonies be burdenous, 
Confutation.  when they are kept with bodily service only, after the servile and bond maner of the Iewes. But we touching sundry our ceremonies do aclowledge them not so to be of necessity, but that they may be removed by the same authority which placed them. Also in our ceremonies we do spiritually remember and consider the benefits of Christ doing all things comely and orderly as S. Paul biddeth vs. In so much that every simplo woman in maner in the catholic church is able to tell you, what the crucifix meaneth, what lights, holy water, ashes, and palm bows betoken. But ye teach them so, as the best of your scholars can not well tell so much as how many sacramentes there be. And no wonder, sith yourselves be not yet agreed vpon the number.  

●s●i. 119.  But to answer you more directly, ye abuse the name of S. Augustine. In that epistle to januarius, he speaketh against certain seruill burdens, with which in some places men were laden, and specially against humane presumptions, unto which he would men not to be subject. For that he accounteth to be worse then the condition of the Iewes. who although they aclowledge not the time of freedom, yet are they subject( saith he) to the burdens of the lawe, not to the presumptions of men. These humane presumptions( for so S. Augustine termeth them and not by the name of vain ceremonies as you report him) he would to be cut away. 
Cap. 19.  What they be, there he declareth. to wit, all such things, which are neither contained in the authorities of the scriptures, nor be found ordained in the councils of bishops, nor be ratified by the custom of the universal church, but be innumerably variable for the diverse manners of diverse places, so as scarce or rather never at all the causes may be found out, that moved men to ordain them. Such he calleth humane presumptions, for that men take them to themselves before they haue either authority of scripture, or of councils, or of custom of thuniuersall church for the same. One of these persumptions or vain devises of particular men and places, there he complaineth of, which we may take for an example to judge, of what sort the rest were. 
Per octa●as suas.  The same is, that who had touched the ground with his bare foot within the space of certain dayes, he should haue ben more grievously rebuked for it, then he that hath butted his mind in drunkenness. Now as the church neither useth nor defendeth any such superstitions, humane presumptions or vain obsertions: so with S. Augustine it alloweth those customs and ceremonies, 
Cap. 18.  which be neither against faith, nor against good manners, and haue some what in them, whereby men may be exhorted unto a better life. Of which sort the ceremonies be that the catholic church now useth. I mean not only the uniform and general, but also the particular and variable, for the diversity of manners and places. And this is called of S. Augustine in that place saluberrima regula, a most hole some rule. 
Cap. 18.   
again, 
apology.  that old father Augustin denieth it to be leeful for a monk to spend his time slothfully and ydleye, and under a pretensed and counterfeit holiness to live all vpon others. And who so thus liveth, an old father Apollonius likeneth him to a thief. These men haue( I wote not whither to name them droves or herds of monks) who for all they do nothing, nor yet once intend to bear any show of holiness, yet live they not only upon others, but also riot lauyshly of other folkes labours.  
We do not maintain that a monk should live idly. 
Confutation. service of God accounted idleness of the Defenders.  But we reprove you for accounting the service of God idleness. Neither is that the thing only which ye can allege in defence of that your brethren haue done to monasteries in the countries where your gospel proceedeth. For ye haue removed not only such monks as were proved idle, but all monks generally, that would serve God according to that vow, which they made under the approved rule of S. Benedict, S, Augustine, S. Francis, S. dominic, or of any other. You say we haue droves and herds of monks, thereby signifying they are beasts rather then men. 
monks much praised of Augustine. De opere Monacho. rū. ca. 23.  Whereas S. Augustine calleth them servos dei, the seruants of God, in that very work which you allege. And speaking of a certain strait exercise of anchoretes, he saith in the same book, Horum quidem exercitationem in tam mirabili continentia, quandoquidem habent ocium quo haec agant, quantum dignum est laudare non possum. The exercise of these men in so marvelous continency( for as much as they haue l●isure whereby they may do these things) I can not praise so far as the thing deserveth.  
The same S. Augustine lamenting the abuse which was crept in amongst certain of his time, who went about under the habit of monks to live in rest without all labour, saith notwithstanding, monachorum propositum tàm bonum, tàm sanctum, quod in Christi nomine cupimus sicut per alias terras, sic per totam Aphricam pullulare. The purpose of monks is so good and so holy, that we be desirous it may bud up in the name of Christ in all afric, as it doth in other countries. Are you not a shamed to allege that book of S. Augustine against monkes, where so great praise is made of that profession? But what should you allege that maketh not against you? 
The Defenders religion.  For what is your religion, but such as yourselves haue devised, a profession to talk of the gospel, and to live like men of the world, to speak much of the spirit, and to follow the lewd lusts of the flesh, to pretend holynes in word, and to perform none in dede?  

Against what monks disputeth S. Augustine. mat. 6.  S. Augustine disputeth there against those monks which defended idleness, refused to labour utterly, and said they ought not to labour, alleging the words of Christ mentioned by S. Matthew touching provision of living, which the fowles of the air had at Gods hand without all travail, against the saying of S. Paul to the Thessalonians, forbidding him to eat, 
2. Thes. 3.  that laboureth not. Now as the monks of our time defend not that erroneous doctrine, so neither can you prove, that they are bound to labour, more then other men be. The lawe of nature( I grant) requireth every man to gete his living by labour, not being let by infirmity or other lawful impediment, if otherwise he haue not how to live, or except his vocation be to minister unto men spiritual things, for which he may require temporal things for his necessity, forbearing bodily labour. In consideration whereof sith that our monks( I mean all religious men) served the altar, and were appointed to preach, minister the sacramentes, and bestow their time in prayer for their own infirmities and for the sins of the people: by the doctrine of S. Augustine, 
De opere monachorum. Cap. 21. An evil change.  they are not bound to labour, as they who for sowing spiritual things to the behoof of others, may reap their temporal things to their own necessary sustenance. And they which haue things given them for prayers sake, why may they not live thereof? Now ye haue cast out the servants of God, and placed in many of their houses, I will not say droves and herds in dede, verily idle servants, I think I should not greatly serve from truth, saying servants to the world, and servants to the belly. And so your holy gospelling religion hath displaced the service of God immortal, and settled the service of a God corruptible.  
The old council at Rome decreed, 
apology council. Rō. cap. 3.  that no man should come to the service said by a Priest well known to keep a Concubine. These men let to fearme Concubines to their priestes, and yet constreigne men by force against their will to hear their cursed paltry service.  
We find no such canon in the old roman councils. 
Confutation.  Your allegations noted in the margin be false for the more part, as your doctrine is. 
Dist. 25. Ca. nullus.  Yet find we that Nicolaus and Alexander Popes haue willed no man to hear the mass of that priest, whom he knoweth undoubtedly to keep a concubine. 
What is undoubted knowledge in this case. Our new married ministers that were either deacon● or priestes before their marriage, be keepers of concubines. In joan. c. 1 tract. 5. A slanderous lie.  But wise men in the lawe think only that to be an undoubted knowledge, when either the judge hath by open sentence puplished such a man to keep a concubine, or the fact itself is notorious. As now it chanceth to all our new ministers, that once having made solemn vow of chastity, be for all that married. Who in the face of all the world keep strumpettes, bearing men in hand, that if they name them wives, sisters, or yokefellows, all the matter is excused. This is certain, that who so ever abuse his body in holy orders, though he do it to his own damnation, yet the sacramentes of Christ can not thereby be defiled, as S. Augustine at large disputeth writing vpon the gospel of S. John.  
Whereas you say, we let concubines out to fearme to our Priestes, it is meet for you to say it, because it is false and slanderous. Neither was ever any man, or at this day is driven to hear his mass, who keepeth a concubine. For if he will take vpon him to prove any priest to keep a concubine, himself not being so infamous as he may not stand in iudgement, it is certain he shall be heard. If he can not prove it, then is not he out of doubt by order of lawe, that this priest keepeth a concubine, and therefore he is bound as other christian people be, to hear his mass. Which is no sacrilege as your sacrilegious heart thinketh, and blasphemous tongue uttereth: but the blessed and holy sacrifice, which Christ made at his last supper.  

apology  The old Canons of the Apostles command, that bishop to be removed from his office, which will both supply the place of a civil magistrate, and also of an ecclesiastical person: These men for all that, both do and will needs serve both places. Nay rather the one office which they ought chiefly to execute, they once touch not, and yet no body commandeth them to be displaced.  

Confutation. Can. 7. & Can. 80. The true meaning of the Apostles canons by the Detender alleag●d. Diu. 88.  The true meaning of the canons of the Apostles is, that a bishop or priest should not abase himself to the administration of secular cares and offices. For the greek word {αβγδ}, which is in latin dimittere or deijcere, doth signify, that it is to low and vile a thing for a bishop to become a bailie, a mayour, a shrive, a receiver, or surveyor to a temporal lord. And much viler it is to become a sergeant, a merchant, or a pleader of secular causes in a temporal court. All these things be interdicted to bishops and priestes, and that either because they are to base and vile occupations for so high a degree as priesthood is, or else for that a priest may not be stopped by the administration of such, from his chief office, which standeth in discharging his spiritual charge. But if the cause of widows, orphans, or poor folk require the bishops or priestes help, it is lawful by the canons to do that belongeth to their necessities, as being high and great matters, by doing whereof the bishop is not dishonoured. If a bishop haue a rich patrimony of his own, 
Dist. 87.  or else temporal jurisdiction belonging to his bishopric, that part of it, which is base and abject, he must commit the execution of it to others that are no priestes. But that which neither is unseemly for him to do, nor hindereth his spiritual duties, he may himself execute. 
Psal. 98.  As Moses was both priest and chief ruler of the people, as Heli and Samuel governed both in temporal and spiritual causes. To this pertaineth that S. Paul saith, 
1 Cor. 6.  know ye not that we shall judge angels, how much more worldly things?  
If we ought to stick at any one certain worldly business, which may seem unseemly for a bishop or a priest, 
Among worldly business marriage may justly seem unseemly for a bishop or priest. 1. Cor. 7.  as to base for his dignity, and to much hindrance to his vocation, undoubtedly marriage is of that sort. Whom may we better credite for this case, then S. Paul? He that is without a wife( saith he) is careful for the things that be of our Lord, how he may please God. But he that is coupled with a wife, is careful about the things which are of the world, and is divided. Here are both causes expressed which are forbidden a bishop or priest by the Apostles. For he that hath a wife, is first careful of that thing, which hindereth his spiritual vocation. Then the thing whereabout he is careful, is a worldly business, unworthy and uncomely for his office, as to provide for maintenance of his houseshold, to procure land and living for his children, to lend the use of his body to that service, wherein reason is swallowed up, and the mind cast down from the tower of her dignity, 
Solilequirum. c. 10. de ●ui● dei. lib. 14. ●. 16.  as S. Augustine saith. More may be thought, that is not necessary to be spoken. In consideration whereof when the priestes of the old lawe served in the temple, they abstained for that time from their wives and houses. But with our fleshly ministers this business is not fleshly and worldly at all, but all together spiritual, because their spirit is wholly occupied therein. For their defence it followeth in the apology.  

apology  The old council Gangrense commandeth, that none should make such difference between an unmarried priest and a married priest, as he ought to think the one more holy then the other for single life sake. These men put such a difference between them, that they streight way think all their holy service to be defiled, 
Confut. The council of Gangres falsified by the Defenders, because it speaketh of external sacrifice, that is, the mass. Can. 4.  yf it be done by a good and honest man that hath a wife.  
It was not for your purpose sirs to use true dealing and to allege the words as they are in that old council. For they speak of an external sacrifice, which the church calleth the mass. The same it behoved you to dissemble, lest ye bewrayed your cause. The words be these. If any man make a difference of a priest who hath ben married, as though when he 
{αβγδ}. never yet heard, that a priest after priesthood married, before our time.  sacrificeth, a man might not communicate with his oblation, be he accursed. Those fathers speak evidently of a priest, who hath sometime ben married, that is to say, before his priesthood. For after priesthood, it was never heard sithence the time of Christ, that any priest might mary by the lawe either of the greek or of the latin church. We therefore condemn the marriages of priestes, which be made after the taking of holy orders, and say, that he is no good and honest man, but an incestuous adulterer that marrieth afterward. 
In authent. Collat. 1. Tit. 6.   
In alleging this Canon first the word of sacrifice was dissembled, next the name of oblation. 
Many false points done by the defender in alleging one canō.  Thirdly no mention was made of the participle of the preterperfect tense, {αβγδ}, which speaketh of him that hath married before his priesthood. Fourthly it is pretended, as though the canon said, that a priest married is as holy as a priest unmarried. There is no such thing there: 
Eustachi{us} condemned marriage.  but only that the mass of the one is as good, as the mass of the other. Last of all the argument of that council was against Eustachius the heretic, who condemned marriage itself, as though a married man might not be communicated withall.  
The ancient Emperour justinian commanded, 
apology  that in the holy administration all things should be pronounced with a clear, 
In novel. Constit. 123& 146.  loud, and tretable voice, that the people might receive some fruit thereby. These menn least the people should understand them, triumble up all their service, not only with a drowned and hollow voice, but also in a strange and Barbarous tongue.  
justinian the Emperour willeth prayers at the holy oblation, 
Confutation. justinianus words falsified. {αβγδ}. ( which these Defenders here translate* administration as being ashamed of their own author because they hold against the sacrifice of the mass) to be made not in silence, but with an audible voice. Not meaning as though prayers made in silence were unfruitful to the people, as these men would make us believe. And therefore they corrupt his words. as what thing do they not corrupt that cometh under their hands? They say justinian made that lawe, Vt fructus ex ea re aliquis ad populum redire posset, that some fruit might come thereof to the people, as who should say, no fruit were like to come, if prayer were made in silence. But what saith justinian? His words be, quo maiore exinde deuotione in depromen is domini dei laudibus audientium animi efferantur. 
In novel. constitut. 123.  To thintent the mindes of the hearers may thereby with the more devotion be lifted up in setting forth the praises of our lord God. He saith that the loud voice helpeth to more devotion, he saith not to some fruit, but with more devotion. Some fruit is always had even by secret prayer, and more fruit sometime, then by loud prayer.  

The falsehood of this Defender in five points. See in my answer to M. Iuelles challenge article. 3.  Two faults then are committed or rather two lies made in Iustinians words, one that for oblation, they turned administration, which falsehood M. Iuell useth in his printed sermon and in his replies to M. D. coal. Whether he be also guilty of this? And other fault is, that for more devotion, they put some fruit. The third lie is, in that they say, we do whisper all our service, so is the latin, albeit this good lady liketh better the term of mumbling, I ween few who haue the sense of hearing will say with them, that the singing of psalms, hymmes, epistle, gospel, grailes, offertories, preface, and such like service used in the catholic church, is whispering or mumbling. The fourth lie is, where they say, we do it so, lest the people should understand vs. We wish that all the people understood all our prayers. But we think it not convenient in a common profane tongue to utter high mysteries. Therefore we wish they would learn the mystical tongue, and gladly do we teach their children the same. Some things in dede the latin church rather choose to worship with silence, then to make them contemptible by divulging them. 
Consecration of the latins is pronounced secretly, of the greeks openly.  And they are such, as only belong to priestes. As the act of consecration, which the greeks pronounce openly, the latins secretly. And both well. But if we come to compare things, the latins may seem to do it more conveniently. For S. Dionyse the Areopagite scholar to S. Paul, teacheth Timothe, and in him all us, communicare ea quae vim perficiendi habent, cum iis qui perficiunt, to communicate those things which haue power to make men perfit, with them who make men perfit, that is to say, to publish priestly office of consecration,( for nothing maketh us more perfit) among them only, who are priestes, and not among others.  
Last of all the fifth lie is to say, that we pronounce our service and our mysteries in a barbarous tongue. As though the latin tongue were barbarous and not rather every vulgar tongue. That tongue is most barbarous, 
The latin tongue is without reason called barbarous of the Defender.  which is most used of the vulgar sort, most private, most unknown in respect of all. But in the latin church wherein al our service is said, and whereof the true catholics of England be members( as wherein they were Christened) in this church the latin tongue is more known and more universal, and therefore less barbarous, then the englishe tongue. It is otherwise when we preach. For then we teach the people, and speak to them only. But in our public prayers we say the common service of all the West church, and not only the service of England. When England cometh to haue a service of their own, a tongue of their own in churches, and hath a church of their own beside the whole, thē haue they lost their part with the catholic church, whereunto God restore it again.  
The old council at Carthage commanded nothing to be read in Christes congregation, but the canonical scriptures: 
apology  these men read such things in their churches as themselves know for a truth to be stark lies, and fonde fables. 
council. Cart. 3. cap. 47. Confutation   
A man were better I assure thee good Reader to make two new books, then to correct one so full of lies and falfefied places, as this apology is. This old council of Carthage is newly falsified by our new clergy. The words of the council are these. 
council. Carthag. 3. c. 47.  Placuit vt preter scripturas canonicas nihil in ecclesia legatur sub nomine divinarum scripturarum. It hath seemed good unto us, that besides the canonical scriptures nothing be red in the church under the name of the holy scriptures. They leaving out these four words, sub nomine divinarum scripturarum, under the name of divine scriptures, would bear men in hand the council willed nothing to be red in the church besides the holy scriptures. Are not these trusty men to whom ye may committe the charge of your souls for your faith and salvation?  

It is lawful by the council of Carthage, other things to be red in the church beside the canonical scriptures.  It followeth in the same decree, liceat etiam legi passions martyrum, cum anniuersarijdies celebrantur. Let it be lawful also for the martyrdoms of martyrs to be red, when their yearly festes are kept. And yet dare they not only to say, nothing must be read besides the scriptures, but also to allege that very place for that special lie, which saith the contrary. look in the book thyself good reader, and see how falsely they handle so holy matters. An other lie is, when they say we read those things in the church, which ourselves know to be stark lies and fond fables. When they can not themselves show that we haue any such, it is a vain lying rhetoric to say, we doubt not of it, or know it ourselves for a trouth. I wonder not if they blushy not in belying us, who haue belied so many scriptures, councils, and fathers.  

apology  But yf there be any that think, that these above rehearsed authorities be but weak and slender, because they were decreed by Emperours, and certain petty Byshops, and not by so full and perfect councils, taking pleasure rather in the authority and name of the Pope: 
De Cons. Dist. 2. 1 Cum enim nemo.  let such a one know, that Pope Iulius doth evidently forbid, that a priest in ministering the Communion, should dip the bread in the cup. These men contrary to Pope Iulius decree, divide the bread, and dip it in the wine.   

THE fourth CHAPTER.  

Confutation. Pope Iulius decree truly discussed.  Ye may be sure many men think this your homely stuff not only weak and slender, but also corrupt, venomous, and loathsome. But now by like ye will amend your fault. But how? Surely by going from very evil to as bad or worse, if ye can do worse then hitherto ye haue done. Iulius the Pope( say ye) doth evidently forbid that a priest in ministering the communion, 
Iulius decree falsified by the Defenders.  should dip the bread in the cup. Now verily your former fault of lying is well amended. For where before ye left out, cast in, or changed some of those words, which ye pretend to allege, now ye make every whit new of your own. Where hath Iulius these words? I speak not of your false alleging of places in your books margin. I forgive you the putting of cum enim nemo, 
De conset. Dist. 2. cum omne.  in stede of cum omne. These be small and slypper faults, which if they were alone might be winked at in such flipper merchants as ye are. But let us hear what Pope Iulius saith. Cum omne crimen atque peccatum oblatis Deo sacrificijs deleatur, quid de caetero pro delictorum expiatione Domino dabitur, quando in ipsa sacrificij oblatione erratur? Whereas every fault and sin is taken away by sacrifices offered unto God, what shall hereafter be given to our Lord for the purging of sins, when error is made in the very offering of sacrifice? How like ye this maisters? 
Sacrifice avouched by Iulius the first.  Would any man haue thought, that ye would haue alleged this place for your purpose? love ye sacrifice so well, as to be careful that no fault be committed therein? Ye will be sure to haue no fault in your sacrifice I trow, for ye will haue none at all, that shall consist in any outward act. Whereas Iulius altogether speaketh of fault committed in offering of the external sacrifice.  
Ye will say perhaps, I do you wrong, because ye brought not forth this place which I haue alleged. Nay sirs I do as I am constrained, for that it joineth with that part which ye allege. And it is not even dealing to allege one piece, and keep back the other, which helpeth to the understanding of the whole. Well, hitherto ye haue small advantage of Pope Iulius. Let us see what followeth. audivimus enim quosdam schismatica ambitione detentos contrà divinos ordines,& Apostolicas institutiones, lac pro vino in divinis sacrificijs dedicare. For we haue heard say, that certain men bound with a schismatical desire of honour contrary to divine ordinances and apostolic institutions, do dedicate milk in stede of wine in the divine sacrifices. 
milk through abuse dedicated in sacrifices in stede of wine in Iulius time. The eucharist styped given for the whole communion through abuse.  Well, this is not your fault, for ye deny the sacrifices which Iulius meant, and therefore to the doing of such sacrifices ye can find nothing in your heart to dedicate at all. Alios quoque intinctam eucharisliam populis pro complemento communionis porrigere, We haue heard also of others, who give to the people the eucharist dipped or stiped for making up of the communion. It is to be vnderstanded, that whereas Christ gave the blessed sacrament of the altar to his Apostles, he gave it under both kindes. And when the priestes in some countries either for lack of wine at all times ready, either for some private fancy used to dip or stipe the sacred body of our Lord under form of bread in the consecrated blood, and so to give it to the people: Pope Iulius findeth fault therewith, for that neither Christ ordained so, nor the Apostles left such order to the church. So that Iulius meaneth nothing else, but to reprove and reform that use of dipping or styping the one kind in the other in the administration of the communion unto the people. read the place who listeth, he shall find the same sense more largely uttered a little after.  
But what sense make these Defenders a Gods name? They say Iulius forbiddeth the priest, 
The false sleights of this Defender in falsifying Iulius decree.  ne dum peragit mysteria panem immergat in calicem, that in ministering the communion,( so the lady turneth) he should dip the bread in the cup. There is no such word in the whole decree. Iulius nameth eucharistiam, they call it bread. Iulius hath intinctam porrigere populis, that no priest give the sacrament dipped to the people, they leaving out giving it to the people, say he forbade the priest to dip it. They leave out also the chief cause of the whole, which is, pro complemento communionis, for making up of the communion. For he forbiddeth to give unto the people only the consecrated host dipped in the chalice, as though it were the whole communion, nolesse then if the blood were given apart. These men( say they) contrary to the decree of Pope Iulius, divide the bread, and dip it in the wine. We in the mass break the host in three partes not without signification of a mystery, two we receive apart, the third we put into the chalice, and receive it together with the blood. What haue ye to say against this? Neither is this that Iulius reprehendeth. He forbiddeth to give unto the people the blessed Sacrament dipped. We neither do it, nor ever haue done it. Iulius would not the dipping to stand for the supplying of both kindes apart, and for the making up of the sacrament. Neither do our priestes in the mass in that sense take it, nor to that end use it: but for signification only of a special mystery, and that not of a private fancy or ambition, but by public authority. And therefore that decree of Iulius pertaineth not to the reproof of any thing, that now is done in the church.  
Pope Clement saith, 
apology  it is not lawful for a bishop to deal with both swords: for yf thou wilt haue both saith he, thou shalt deceive both thyself, and those that obey the. Now a dayes the Pope challengeth to himself both sword, and useth both, wherefore it ought to seem less marvel, yf that haue followed which Clement saith, that is, that he hath deceived both his own self, and those which haue given ear unto him.  
If these fellows had not sworn to belie all the world for maintenance of their new gospel, 
Confutation. A lie forged vpon S. Clement  they would at this time at lest haue made a true report of S. Clementes words. S. Clement speaketh not of two sword. The place truly alleged hath thus. Si mundialibus curis fueris occupatus,& teipsum decipies,& eos qui te audiunt. If thou be occupied in worldly cares, thou shalt both deceive thyself, and those that listen to thee. The author of this apology having spite at the church which is Christes fold, and at the Pope the head shepherd thereof, envying at his authority, forgeth a lie vpon S. Clement, making him to say, Si utrunque habere vis, if thou wilt haue both sword, thou shalt both deceive thyself, and those that, obey thee. Whereas Clement speaketh no word of the two sword, but of worldly cares, wherewith what bishop so ever is entangled, shall( as he saith) deceive both himself, and others that hearken to him. For which cause these Defenders being coupled with yokefellows in pretensed wedlock, which state wrappeth a man in worldly cares, because such a one careth for the things of the world, how to please his wife, 
1. Cor. 7.  and is divided, as S. Paul saith: it must needs follow, that having taken the office of superintendentes and charge of souls vpon them, they haue deceived themselves, and daily do deceive so many as hear them, and follow their false doctrine.  

apology  Pope lo saith, vpon one day it is lawful to say but one mass in one church: These men say daily in one Church commonly ten Masses, twenty, thirty, yea often times more. So that the poor gaser on, can scant tell which way he were best to turn him.  
Pope Gelasius saith, it is a wicked dead and subject to sacrilege in any man to divide the Communion, and when he received one kind, to abstain from the other. These men contrary to Goddes word and contrary to Pope Gelasius: command that one kind onely of the holy Communion be given to the people, and by so doing, they make their priests guilty of sacrilege.  

Confutation.  There is no small number of men, which are moved to suspect, that this apology was devised by some catholic man intending to mock this new clergy of England, and to put them quiter out of estimation and credite. And to that very end this innumerable company of lies to them seemeth of purpose to be set out. For no man having his five wits would think good for maintenance of his own part, to affirm so many things, the contrary whereof to his great discredit and shane, by search is easily found. 
In epist. ad Dioscorum Alexandriaum.  lo saith clean contrary to that is here in his name avouched, that when so ever a new multitude filleth the church, so as all can not be present at the sacrifice at once, that the oblation of the sacrifice be without casting any doubt done again. Which thing I haue more at large treated and proved in the 13. article of my answer to M. Iuelles challenge. Likewise the objection made out of Gelasius, which this defender maketh great store of, and setteth forth with his often and tedious repetition almost every where, is sufficiently examined and discussed in the second article of the feresaid answer.  
But yf they will say that all these things are worn now out of ure, and nigh dead, and pertain nothing to these present times, 
apology  yet to th'end all folk may understand what faith is to be given to these men, and vpon what hope they call togithers their general councils, let us see in few words what good heed they take to the self same things, which they themselves these very last yeres( and the remembrance thereof is yet new and fresh) in their own general council that they had by order called, decreed and commanded to be denoutely kept. In the last council at Trident, scant fourteen yeares paste, it was ordained by the common consent of all degrees, that one man should not haue two benefice at one time. What is become now of that ordinance? Is the same to so sone worn out of mind and clean consumed? For these men ye se give to one man not two benefice onely, but sundry Abbaies many times, sometime also two bishoprics, sometime three, sometime four, and that not onely to an unlearned man, but often times even to a man of war.  
In the said council a decree was made, that all Byshops should preach the gospel. These men neither preach nor once go up into the pulpit, neither think they it any parte of their Office. What great pomp and crack then is this they make of antiquity? Why brag they so of the names of the ancient Fathers, and of the new and old councils? why will they seem to trust to their authority, whom when they list, they despise at their own pleasure?   

THE FIFTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  Concerning the decrees of the council of Trent, if ye esteemed them as ye ought, ye would never haue uttered such vile stuff as your apology is farced withall. But as ye bring that council against us which yourselves believe not, so haue we great cause to think, that ye believe none of all the rest, which ye allege in that lying book. For truly ye haue so used both scriptures, councils, and fathers in it, as men that make none account of them, so ye might seem to the vnlerned people to make a show of somewhat. Ye must understand the council of Trent was not ended until the year of our Lord 1563. and not confirmed until the year. 1564. from which time one year is given to the publication thereof. So that now the time is that it be executed. And we trust it shall be executed in all catholic realms. 
Fault found with plurality- of benefice.  But what reason is it they should speak of keeping that council, who say it is not lawful? With what face find they fault with the plurality of benefice of one man, who among their own sect account it not unlawful one man to haue two sundry bishoprics? Haue they so sone forgotten sir john Hooper one of the chief pillars of their congregation, 
Hooper possessor of two bishoprics atonce.  specially a late martyr of their own canonization? Had he not the superintendentship both of Worceter and also of Gloceter together? But how so ever it be, and whether we offend in this point or no, yet we keep and maintain a godly doctrine as touching the same. They for their part, as they offend in the thing, so doctrine for due order of it, haue they none. So vnperfite is yet their new upstart church.  
That ye say catholic bishops come not in the pulpit, it is a slanderous lie. For it is otherwise, though some herein be faulty, and that they think it not any part of their office it is a malicious and to incredible a lie. Albeit some bishops I trow, ye will hold excused for this behalf. For, whom ye haue procured to be locked up in prisons, that they should not confute your heresies in their learned and godly sermons: if they go not into the pulpits, ye haue not cause to blame them.  
But I haue a special fancy to common a word or two rather with the Popes good holinesse, 
apology  and to say these things unto his own face.  
Here pricketh forth this hasty Defender, 
Confutation.  as pert as a pearemonger, and fain would he talk with the Pope himself forsooth face to face. But sir I pray you, 
The Defender will needs talk with the Pope himself.  be not to hasty in taking your journey to Rome. Tell us before ye go, may not a meaner man serve in stede of the Pope, for your masship to talk withal? If you thought your questions to be of so deep learning, as no man at home were able to resolve you in them, when you wrote your apology: why went you not to Rome? Or if that journey had ben to long, why resorted you not to those godly and the best learned fathers of the world, at that time assembled in council at Trent? doubtless if either reason, wit, learning, or authority, could haue satisfied you, there had you ben satisfied. But all this serveth not. This fellow hath a special fancy, and will needs to the Pope himself, and talk with him of his high matters presently to his own face. I pray you sir may not a poor man hear your tale before hand? By often telling of it, you shall haue it in better readiness, when you come there. The tale he hath to tell the Pope, for all his companions, it is here set forth in print. It consisteth most of certain questions, as followeth.  
Tell us I pray you, good holy Father, 
apology.  seeing ye do crack so much of all antiquity, and boast yourself that all men are bound to you alone, which of all the Fathers haue at any time called you by the name of the highest Prelate: the universal bishop or the head of the Church.   

THE SIXTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  What the Pope himself will say unto you, when you come before him, I know not. Because you make no hast( I suppose) as yet to go unto his person, may it please you in the mean time to be answered by an other man, thus now till then. Touching the first part of your first question red S. jerome ad Damasum, 
Praefatione in euangelistas.  and aduersus Luciferianos, where he calleth the Pope summum sacerdotem. And if ye require a word of greater sound, 
Epist. 162.  read S. Augustine where he saith, in Romana ecclesia semper viguit Apostolicae cathedrae Principatus. In the roman church the princedom of the apostolic chair hath always flourished. For the second part, look in the council of Chalcedon. For the third, red victor in his second book de persecutione Vandalorum. And for a full resolution of this whole matter, read mine answer to M. Iuelles challenge in the fourth article. There shall you find your demand fully answered.  

apology De Maior.& obedientia. unam Sanctam. Confutation. L●si quis. C.d. test. Of the Popes temporal sword. De considerat. lib. 4. Mat. 26.  Which of them ever said, that both the sword were committed to you?  
Let S. Bernard writing to a Pope answer for the Pope. He is a sufficient witness. Where yourself do allege him much against the Pope, you can not by the lawe justly refuse him speaking for the Pope. The spiritual sword you deny not I trow. Of the temporal sword belonging also to the Pope, thus saieth S. Bernard to Eugenius. He that denieth this sword to be thine, seemeth to me not to consider sufficiently the word of our Lord saying thus( to Peter thy predecessor) Put up thy sword in the scabbard. The very same then is also thine to be drawn forth perhaps at thy beck, though not with thy hand. else if the same belonged in no wise unto thee, where as the Apostles said, behold there be two sword here: 
luke. 22. The church hath both sword by S. Bernard.  Our Lord would not haue answered, it is enough, but it is to much. So both be the churches, the spiritual sword, and the material. But this is to be exercised for the church, and that of the church. That by the hand of the priest, this of the soldier, but verily at the beck of the priest, and commandment of the Emperour. Thus touching the Popes both sword, you are fully answered by S. Bernard. I trust you will not be so uncourteous, as to put him beside, being so often alleged by yourself and them of your side: nor so partial, as to allow him when he seemeth to make some show for you, and to refuse him, when he is found plain contrary to your false assertions.  
Which of them ever said, 
apology  that you haue authority and a right to call councils?  
Who hath authority to command the partes of the body, 
Confutation.  but the head? And that the Pope is head, where it is amply declared, ye heard even now. Where you ask, which ever said, that the Pope hath authority to call councils, if you know not so much, we tell you that Socrates the writer of thecclesiasticall history saith so, not speaking in his own person, but reporting an old rule of the church in these words. said neque Iulius interfuit maximae Romae praesul, 
Histor. tripart. lib. 4. cap. 9.  neque in locum suum aliquem destinauit, cum utique regula ecclesiastica jubeat, non oportere praeter sententiam Romani Pontificis concilia celebrari. But neither Iulius the bishop of great Rome was present,( at the council of Antiochia) neither sent he any man in his place, whereas the ecclesiastical rule commandeth, that without thaduise and will of the Pope of Rome no councils be kept. And as Socrates witnesseth of the calling of councils, so doth Sozomenus witness of the things done in them. 
Hist. ecclesiast. lib. 3. cap. 10. in graecis.  Cum sacerdotali lege constitutum sit, prò irritis haberi debere, quae praeter sententiam episcopi Romani geruntur. Where as( saith he) it hath ben ordained by a lawe of bishops, that what things be done( in any council) besides thaduise and will of the Bishop of Rome, they ought to be taken for none and voided. If you will see more for this authority of calling councils, red Rescriptum julij Papae contrà Orientales. Epist. Athanasij& Egyptiorum Pontificum ad Felicem Papam. This matter is also fully answered.  

apology  Which of them ever said, that the whole world is but your diocese?  

Confutation. joan. 21.  He that said to Peter, feed my lambs, and, feed my sheep, which lambs and sheep all Christen men be through the world.  

apology Durandus. Confut. Lib. 2. Before fo. 210. b.  Which of them, that all Bishops haue received of your fullness?  
Besides others so hath S. Bernard said in his book de consideratione ad Eugenium. Where he saieth that he is called in plenitudinem potestatis, into the fullness of power.  

apology council. Lateran. Sub julio. 2. Confutation.  Which of them, that all power is given to you as well in heaven as in earth?  
All they which speak of the ministerial power, whereby under Christ the militant church by him is governed. But if you mean absolutely, as your words seem to sound, so no discrete catholic man ever said or thought.  

apology  Which of them, that neither kings nor the whole clergy, nor yet all people together, are able to be iudges over you?  

Confutation.  What sheep shall be iudges over their shepherd? For as the fathers of the most ancient council of Sinuessa said in the cause of Marcellinus the Pope, 
Tom. 1. council.  Nemo unquam iudicauit Pontificem. No man ever judged the Pope, nor any prelate his high priest. Quoniam prima seeds non iudicabitur à quoquam, because the first see shall not be judged of any body.  

apology  Which of them, that kings and Emperours by Christes commandment and will, do receive authority at your hand?  

Confutation.  What is to be answered hereto, you may gather of that is alleged before out of S. Bernard speaking of both sword.  
Which of them with so precise and mathematical limitation hath surueied and determined you to be seventy and seven times greater then the mightiest kings? 
Confut.   
Some merry fellow or other, which thought he might be bold to speak mathematically, so he kept himself within compass, and without just reprehension. For whereas the spiritual power so far passeth the temporal, as the soul doth excel the body, and the heauens surmount the earth, as 
Clem. consti. Aposto. li. 2. c. 34.  S. Clement saith, and gregory 
nazianzen {αβγδ}. De maior.& ob.  nazianzen: you should not so greatly be offended with the seventy and seven times greater dignity, and we need not condemn him as an heretic, which would be pleasant in his algorisme, especially joannes Andreae in the same place referring the matter to the Astronomers. 
Solis   
Which of them, that more ample authority is given to you, 
apology  then to the residue of the Patriarkes?  
The fathers of the Nicene council, 
Confutation.  by witness of 
In rescripto contra Orient.  Iulius the first, who then lived, 
cause. 3.&. 7.  and those of the council of Sardica, 
Epist. ad Felicem papam.  Athanasius, and the bishops of egypt, Thebaida, and Libya, and the fathers of certain other councils.  
above all other most specially the first Christian Emperour Constantine the great. Who being fully instructed of the most godly and learned bishops of his time, what authority the successor of Peter had by commission of our saviour Christ, 
The great authority and honour which Constantine commanded to be deferred to the bishop of Rome.  thought good by his imperial commandment and decree to confirm, ratify, and for his own person to yield unto blessed sylvester then Pope, and to his successors bishops of Rome, the same authority and superiotie, not only over bishops and patriarkes, but also power and honour higher and greater, then that of kings or Emperours. The words of his solemn decree in that behalf made are these, which as they are found in sundry other greek writers, so most plainly in Matthaeus Hieromonachus. {αβγδ}. Which in our tongue is this much to say. We give in decree and commandment to all lords, and to the senate of our Empire, that the bishop of Rome, and the successor of S. Peter chief of the Apostles, haue authority and power in all the world more then that of the Empire is, and that he be honoured and worshipped more then the Emperour, and that he be head of the four patriarchal seats, and that things appertaining to the right faith, be of him judged and determined. 
In authent. de ecclesias. Tit.  justinian the Emperour likewise made an express decree, that the most holy Pope of the elder Rome( for these be his very words) be taken according to the determinations of the holy councils, to be the first and principal of all bishops. It were not hard to allege much more for proof hereof of good and sufficient authority, but in a matter not doubtful this may suffice.  

Apolog●● Confut.  VYhich of them, that you are the Lord God?  
None that wise is, so speaketh absolutlye, nevertheless in some certain sense S. Clement calleth every bishop, 
Co●st. apostle. li. 2. cap. 30. psal. 81. John. 10. apology  terrenum quendam deum, a certain earthly God, as it is written, I haue said, ye are Gods, &c.  
Or that you are not a mere natural man, but a certain substance made and grown together of God and man?  

Confutation.  Can you bring him before his face, that shall say so unto him? I warrant you( master Defender) he shall either be reproved for his flattering, or proved to understand no more by it, then a certain divine power above the natural state of men, or warned, that he be more circumspectly in his glozing, when heretics are ready to slander the whole church, because of one private mans affection.  
Which of them, 
apology  that you are the only headespringe of all lawe?  
Who so ever saith it, 
Confutation.  speaketh not without evident reason, considering that of the principal of every government, all laws belonging to the same, be deducted and derived.  
Which of them, that you haue power over purgatories? 
apology   
O that ye would first believe a purgatory, 
Confutation.  and then should ye understand, what dispensation of losing and binding is committed to the vicar of Christ. 
Esai. 7.  For as Esaie saith, except ye believe ye shall not understand, and the consequent doctrine must needs be obscure, as long as the principal ground thereof is wickedly denied.  
Which of them that you are able to command the angels of God as you list yourself? 
apology   
Nor old father, now new doctor. 
Confutation.  And what so ever he be that shall so tell you, believe him not. He speaketh not catholiklye, and you must make no scruple in such matters.  
Which of them that ever said that you are the lord of lords, 
apology  and the king of kings?  
He useth the clean contrary title, 
Confutation.  calling himself servum juramentum dei, the seruant of the seruants of God. Yet if he for the largeness of his jurisdiction, haue a number of lords and kings within his fold, although he himself doth not boast of it, yet in a right good sense that title may be given to him.  
We can also go further with you in like sort. 
apology  What one amongst the whole number of the old Byshops and fathers, ever taught you either to say private mass whiles the people stared on, or to lift up the sacrament over your head, in which point consisteth now all your religion? Or else to mingle-mangle Christes sacraments, and to bereave the people of the one parte, contrary to Christes institution and plain expressed words. But that wee may once come to an end: What one is there of all the Fathers, which hath taught you to distribute Christes blood and the holy martyrs merites, and to sell openly as merchandises your pardons, and all the rooms and lodgings of purgatory?   

THE SEVENTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  Your objections of private mass, of lifting up the blessed sacrament, of ministering the communion under one kind, be as common with you, as life be with beggars, and lies with heretics. For in dede your questions be but beggarly and heretical. Touching the same, I haue said so much in my answer to M. Iuell your nearest friend his challenge, 
Article. 1.7.2.  as here to rehearse it again, it is needles. You may seek it there. The doctrine of pardons I judge verily you understand not. Here is no opportunity to discuss it. The full treatise of the same requiring a long process, may well to an other time be differed. Of purgatory I haue said some deal here before. 
Fol. 117.  These be the matters, wherein you and your ignorant fellow ministers gladly show your vile railing and scoffing eloquence. Yet concerning the doctrine of pardons least I seem to say nothing, this much I haue thought good to say here.  

Of pardons.  In the sacrament as well of baptism, as of penance, all the bands of sin are loosed, and the whole everlasting pain due to sin is forgiven. At baptism no temporal pain is enjoined to us, because Christ most freely bestoweth the benefit of his death vpon us at that our first entry in to the church. But if afterward we abuse his mercy returning again to filthy sin, Christ would our second, third, and all other reconciliations from thence forth, to be with due satisfaction not of his dreadful anger,( which only his blood and the sacrament of penance by due contrition and confession in dede or in vow received is able to remove) but with satisfation of such temporal pain, as his merciful iustice required both of all others from the beginning, and namely of king david. 
2. Reg. 12.  To whom confessing his fault Nathan said, Our lord hath put away thy sin, thou shalt not die. behold the forgiveness of the mortal sin, and of the everlasting pain due to the same. But yet so is it forgiven, that withall it is transferred into a temporal satisfaction. What was that? It followeth in the story, that because david through his adultery and murder had caused thennemies of God to blaspheme his holy name, the child born of the wife of Vrias should surely die. And so it came to pass. If the death of a son be so grievous a punishment to a good father, that king david was content to pray, to fast, to lye on the ground, afflicting himself seven dayes, only to try whether he might as it were by exchange bye out the death of his son, and yet so could not obtain his desire: we may be most certain, that the very best friends of God synning after baptism( or circumcision which in the old low stood in place thereof) must by ordinary course satisfy with some temporal affliction that just iudgement of our merciful maker and redeemer, if farther grace be not found by some other way. This satisfaction 
Satisfaction.  hath ben therefore justly called the third and last part of penance. Which if it be not fulfiled in this life, undoubtedly it shall be straightly exacted in the world to come in the fire of Purgatory. For that sins may be in an other world forgiven to those who die not in the deadly bonds of them, our saviour hath given us to understand, saying, 
Math. 12.  that the sin against the holy ghost shall not be forgiven, neither in this world nor in the world to come, whereof it appeareth that some other sins may be forgiven in the world to come.  
Well, this satisfaction may notwithstanding be fulfilled more then one way. For a man being once by the sacrament of penance justly reconciled to the mystical body of Christ, 
Psal. 118.  which is his church, wherein( as the prophet saith) a faithful man is made partaker of all that fear God and keep his commandments: we haue in that band of peace such an unity of spirit communicated to us all, that the defect of one may be in spiritual causes supplied out of the plenty of all others his fellow membres, according as the Apostle saith, 
Galat. 6.  bear ye one an others burdens. And because the head( which is Christ) is the chief member of all, and far more then all the rest, such influence is from him derived through out his mystical body, that even his death may as well inwardly by charity, as outwardly by an other way also be applied to us for the pardoning of that temporal satisfaction, which after the sacrament of penance is left vnforgeuen. And that is by such authority, as Christ gave to Peter, 
Math. 16.  saying: To thee I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and what soever thou bindest in earth, it shall be bound also in heaven, and whatsoever thou losest in earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. Lo, whatsoever Peter looseth in earth, it shall be loosed in the sight of God. If therefore the Pope who succeedeth Peter, do by just cause loose not only the mortal sin by the sacrament of penance, but also the band of temporal pain, which remaineth yet due to the sin: it is undoubted, that such pain is loosed in the sight of God. The cause of losing must be not only the will of the Pope( who is put in authority to build, and not to destroy, to dispense and not to lavish) but a reasonable change or recompense substituted in that behalf, such as appertaineth to the honour of God, or to the profit of souls: As maintaining war and sighting against infidels for the defence of Christendom, recovery of the sepulchre of Christ, succouring widows, orphans, or other poor persons, the building or maintaining of holy places, the visiting of prisons and Martyrs toumbes, or any like devout and charitable deeds. Which whiles the faithful Christian doth obediently perform( although otherwise the thing enjoined be not great) he may obtain remission also of that temporal satisfaction, which was left in penance vnremitted. This kind of pardon S. Paul gave to that notorious sinner, who at Corinth had his fathers wife, 
1. Cor. 5.  and was for that fault separated from the church of God, to be afflicted temporally in his flesh. But when the Corinthians had informed S. paul of his earnest and true repentance, and had shewed their own favour and good wills toward him: the Apostle answereth, Whom ye forgive ought, 
2. Cor. 2.  I also( forgive) for I also in that I haue forgiven, if I haue forgiven ought: for your sakes in the person of Christ, I haue forgiven it. Well, we are assured the Apostle speaketh of forgiving such afflictious, as the party was in by reason he was deleuered out of the defence of holy church to that state, 
In. 1. Co. 5. Hom. 15.  where the devill as S. Chrysostom vpon that place noteth, pro solutione peccatorum for payment of his sins might vex him, and wherein such persons being put to their penance used to remain for a certain space of moneths or yeres, until their penance were done and expired. Now the reconciling of the man not yet having done due satisfaction before his ordinary time, is a pardon. Which the Apostle saith, he doth give in the person of Christ, as having authority of him to do it, and for the Corinthians sakes, as who were able by their holy prayers and common sorrow( whereof the Apostle speaketh) to make recompense for that which lacked on the behalf of his own satisfaction. If this much do not satisfy any man, desiring to be fully resolved herein, let him resort to the latin works of that holy and learned Bishop of Rochester. The purposed brevity of this treatise admitteth not specially in this place, a full discussion of so hard and intricate matters.  

apology  These men are wont to speak much of a certain secret doctrine of theirs, and manifold and sundry readings. Then let them bring forth somewhat now if they can, that it may appear they haue at least read or do know somewhat. They haue often stoutly noised in all corners where they went, how all the partes of their religion be very old, and haue been approved not only by the multitude, but also by the consent and continual observation of al nations and times: let them therefore once in their life show this their antiquity: let them make appear at eye, that the things whereof they make such a do, haue taken so long and large increase: let them declare that all Christian nations haue agreed by consent to this their religion.  
Nay nay, they turn their backs, as we haue said already, and flee from their own decrees, and haue cut of and abolished again within a short space, the same things which but a few years before themselves had established, for evermore forsooth to continue. How should one then trust them in the Fathers, in the old councils, and in the words spoken by God? They haue not good Lord they haue not( I say) those things which they boast they haue: they haue not the antiquity, they haue not that universality, they haue not that consent of all places, nor of all times. And though they haue a desire rather to dissemble, yet they themselves are not ignorant hereof: ye and sometime also they let not to confess it openly. And for this cause they say, that the ordinances of the old councils and Fathers be such as may now and then be altered, and that sundry and diuers Decrees serve for sundry and diuers times of the church. Thus lurk they under the name of the Church, and beguile silly creatures with their vain glosinge. Yt is to be marveled, that either men be so blind as they can not see this, or if they see it, to bee so patient, as they can so lightly and quietly bear it.   

THE EIGHT CHAPTER.  

Consutation.  Here is much ado, and as some say, great boast and small roast, many words, little matter. The sense of these words( if I be not deceived) resembleth M. Iuelles challenging spirit, as like as an Ewe resembleth a sheep. What we can bring forth, we say not. Neither think we it necessary at your request, to show what we haue red, and what we know. boasting and bragging shows we leave to you. That you require, hath ben sufficiently declared other wheres. All things are not to be said at all times. Our saviour Christ demanded of Pilat, what is verity, gave no answer. 
John. 18. Two lies discovered.  Yet two of your loud lies besides other that you make here, I will be so bold, as to discover. The decrees of the late Tridentine council( for that is it you mean) although they be not yet in all places most exactly observed, 
No decrees of the Tridentine council be abolished.  yet be they not repealed, cut of and abolished again, as you say. Both those decrees and other wholesome discipline might the rather be established, and to the necessary reformation of manners be put in ure: were not your heretical doctrine a great hindrance, which leadeth the people to liberty and looseness.  
And what a fowle lie is that other, where you say, that ourselves aclowledge and confess openly, that the faith and doctrine which we hold, is not ancient, and universal for times, places, and consent of all? What else mean we-when we challenge unto us and claim the catholic faith?  
But this is your accustomend slender rhetoric, when proofs and arguments of truth fail you, 
The common and chief point of this Defenders rhetoric.  to use the figure of impudent lying, and say, that we ourselves confess it to be true, which you impute unto vs. What so ever you say in this place, we may of right return it ever to you. So we do, and so take you it. Albeit to what purpose should we require you to show the antiquity, and the universality of times, places, and consent of your gospel, sith that you confess, it sprung and came to light within the memory of men yet living? For who preached your gospel, and where was your church, before that friar Luther ran out of his cloister, 
The ant●quitie of the gospelers church.  and took Caterine Bore the Nonne to be his yokefellowe? If you refer us for proof of your antiquity and universality, to Huss, to Wiklesse, and so upward to Berengarius,( there ye will stay I trow or thereabout): we tell you, your succession is intermitted, and not continued, and therefore it is not to be alleged. For easily may we take exceptions against the continuance as all the world knoweth. Now Christ pardy promised( if you remember) to be with his church all dayes to the worlds end. 
Mat. ult.  And for ought that I can see yet, as your synagogue had of late the beginning, so is it like shortly to haue an ending. Christes saying must needs be true. 
Mat. 12.  every kingdom divided against itself, shalbe brought to nought. And every city or house, divided against itself, shall not stand. How ye be divided into sects, and strive among yourselves, partly I haue touched before, and Friderike Staphylus hath amply declared.  

apology  But whereas they haue commanded that those Decrees should be void as things now waxed to old, and that haue lost their grace, perhaps they haue provided in their steede certain other better things, and more profitable for the people. For it is a common saying with them, that if christ himself or the Apostles were alive again, they could not better nor godlyer govern Goddes church, then it is at this present governed by them. They haue put in their steede in deed, butte it is chaff in steede of wheat, as hieremy saith, and such things as according to Esayes words, God never required at their hands. They haue stopped up saith he, all the veins of clear springing water, and haue digged up for the people deceivable and puddlelike pits full of mire and filth, which neither haue nor are able to hold pure water. They haue plucked away from the people the holy Communion, the word of God, from whence all comfort should bee taken, the true worshippinge of God also, and the right use of sacramentes and prayer, and haue given us of their own to play withall in the mean while, salt, water, oil boxes, spittle, palms, bulls, bailies, pardons, crosses, sensinges, and an endless rabble of ceremonies( and as a man might term with Plautus) pretty games to make sport withall.   

THE NINTH CHAPTER.  
If some decrees of old time be grown out of observation, the causes for which they were made, ceasing, 
Confutation.  what blame or wonder is it? 
certain old ordinances grown out of use.  Be not certain ordinances even of Christ and the Apostles grown out of use, as eating of blood, and of any thing that is strangled, and washing of feet, and that without offence? rail and revel whiles ye will, the church is governed by word, and by discipline. If Christ himself or his Apostles were alive again, the word, that is to say, 
The doctrine of the church is such, as can not be made better, because it is the holy gostes. Malach. 3. Psal. 118.  the doctrine of our belief now preached and received in the catholic church, neither should be altered, nor could be bettered. For it is the same he taught himself. And that we doubt not of it, according to his promise, he hath sent the holy ghost to inform the church of all truth. Remember you not who said, I am God, and am not changed? again that the word of God remaineth for ever? His work is perfit, and can not be changed nor amended. As for discipline, our positive ordinances be good and holesom. Would God the time were such, as they might be observed thoroughly. In example of life and common practise, we grant, there is much imperfection, and great need of reformation. But what cause is that why ye should derogat the doctrine, which the holy ghost hath taught?  
This being true, it is evident that we haue the sound and weihty wheat, which no persecution of tyrants, no blasts of heretics, no contagion of evil manners, for these fiften hundred yeres could either blow from the floor of our lords barn the church, or corrupt. We haue according to the Apostles counsel kept that hath ben committed unto vs. 
Depositum. 1. Tim. 6.   
We haue enjoyed the fonteine of the water of life. Ye are they who haue refused the wheat and chosen the chaff, ye haue brought into the church and set up on hye the idols of your strange and false doctrine, 
Ierem. 2.  which God abhorreth. Ye haue digged to yourselves leaking pits, which hold no pure and holosome water, but mire and puddles, with the corruption whereof ye haue poisoned many souls.  
Ye charge us sore that we haue plucked away from the people the holy communion, the word of God, the true worshipping of God, the right use of sacramentes, and prayer. Who so ever taketh these five away, wherein chiefly standeth our salvation, the same is Antichrist. Were not that ye haue already done so much for us, as the world may take you for impudent liars, we would not quietly bear so grievous a matter. But now that ye haue tried yourselves so false of your word, we little esteem it, your railing is no slander. Yet we would all men indifferently to consider and judge this matter. For who haue bereft Christen people of the holy communion, 
The Defenders and their fellow sacramentaries haue bereft the people of the holy communion. 1. Cor. 11. This new clergy robbeth Christen people of the benefit of gods true word.  we, that after consecration and oblation made, deliver the very body itself of our saviour Christ to such as by dew examination in that case by S. Paul required, haue prepared themselves thereto: or ye, who deny the presence of his body, and for a sign only thereof( whereas Christ would us to eat his body) by your will would give to who so ever and how so ever any cometh, without former consecration and oblation, no more but a piece of bakers bread and a sip of common wine? Who haue taken away the great benefit of Gods word, we, that plainly and diligently expound and declare that sense of the scriptures, which the holy ghost according to Christes promise hath taught the church: or ye, who propound to the people the outward letter, wresting and stretching the same so, as ye may seem to haue some colour for your new doctrine, which is almost in every point found repugnant to the scriptures, the exposition of the fathers, decrees of councils, and consent of the whole church? By whom is the true worshipping of God diminished, by us, 
By the de●en●ers the true worshipping of God is diminished.  that besides a pure faith and steadfast hope, most earnestly preach and teach charity, and exhort the people always to good works: or ye, who for fear of superstition, and lest they should trust in their good deeds, bear them in hand, that faith only is sufficient, and that if they trust in the mercy of God promised for Christes sake, how so ever they live, all shal be well? What shall I speak of the right use of the sacramentes? 
Our new clergy leaveth us but two sacraments of seven, and the same much profaned. Prayer abolished.  As the church hath ben taught by the Apostles, and hath always observed, so we use them inviolably. Ye haue not only abandoned them all except two, but those also with your heretical and schismatical devises ye haue damnably profaned. Lastly concerning prayer, what hath ben ordained by our holy forefathers of all ages, directed with the spirit of of God, for the maintenance and increase of it to Gods honour, all that in few yeres by the instinct of satan, to promote his kingdom ye haue utterly abolished, and by wicked violence brought the people from devotion to a careless idleness, from speaking to God with hartes and lips, to a spiritual dumnesse, from prayers to chapters, from holy thinking to unprofitable hearkening.  
Ye can not abide salt, water, oil, palm, the cross, 
The Defenders can not away with holy ceremonies.  incense &c. no marvell. No more can not the devill, who possesseth you, and rideth you, and after his own will driveth you from truth, from Christen religion, and from all godliness. Were it so that your spirit could away with those things, then were it not agreeing with his spirit. until ye give place to the spirit of God, who may drive out of you the spirit of satan, we look to hear no better tidings of you. We tell the devout and well disposed sort, who be not so rash as to venture their souls vpon your lying word, that these things and ceremonies and certain other such, are to be kept in the church, and not rashly to be abolished, as being certain lively stirringes to faith and godliness, necessary for the setting forth of religion, and such as whereby the people is led as it were by the hand, to understand and retain the mysteries of Christ. Neither is it to be doubted, but that the greatest part of ceremonies which be used in the administration of the sacramentes and otherwheres, came to us from the primitive and apostolic church, as one of your own companions called Theodor basil in greek, 
Theodore basil, alias Thomas Beacon.  and Thomas Beacon in English, hath ben forced to confess in his relics of Rome. And because right well it may be proved they are not a new devise of the papists( that is to say of Christen men that shun heresies) we think it a wickedness to cast that away, which hath ben accounted holy so many ages, and of so many godly men. In those things saith S. Augustine, 
Ad Casulanum epist. 86.  of which the holy scripture hath ordained no certainty, the custom of the people of God, or the ordinances of the forefathers are to be holden for a lawe. And( which he saith an other where) as the breakers of Gods laws, so the despisers of ecclesiastical customs be to be punished.  

apology  In these things haue they set all their religion, teaching the people that by these God may be duly pacified, spirites be driven away, and mens consciences well quieted.  

Confutation.  What shall I say to all this, but that ye lie? I would say as the maner is, saving your usurps: but that your often and unshamefast lying hath quiter taken away from you all opinion of honesty. All Christes religion which we profess, consisteth not in these things, neither by these be mens consciences quieted. By these men be put in mind of those things, and moved to the same, whereby quietness of conscience may be attained. By certain of these evil and impure spirits be driven away in dede. Which here by sundry ancient records and testimonies I would declare to be most true, were it not well enough known by daily experience. What benefit Christen people haue obtained by the sign of the cross, both against the devill and otherwise: in a treatise of late set forth of the cross, every one that listeth to see, may red. By what other holy things being with prayer of the church consecrated through the power of God, he is driven away, it is not unknown. But as for you, whereas neither bread, nor water, nor cross, driveth you away, it seemeth ye are worse to be conjured, then the devill himself. Many of your sect catholic Princes haue found so stubborn, as they could yet never rid their countries of them, but by conjuration of fire.  
For these lo, 
apology  be the orient colours and precious savours of Christian religion: these things doth God look vpon, and accepteth them thankfully: these must come in place to be honoured and put quiter away the institutions of Christ and of his Apostles. And like as in times past when wicked king jeroboam had taken from the people the right serving of God, and brought them to worship golden calves, least perchance they might afterwards change their mind and slip away, gettinge them again to jerusalem to the Temple of God there, he exhorted them with a long tale to be steadfast, saying thus unto them: O Israell, these calves be thy Gods. In this sort commanded your God you should worship him. For it should be wearisome and troublous for you to take vpon you a journey so far of, and yearly to go up to jerusalem, there to serve and honour your God. even after the same sort every whit, when these men had once made the lawe of God of none effect through their own traditions, fearing that the people should afterward open their eyes and fall an other way, and should some whence else seek a surer mean of their salvation, Iesu, how often haue they cried out. This is the same worshippinge that pleaseth God, and which he straitly requireth of us, and wherwhith he will be turned from his wrath, that by these things is conserved the unity of the church, by these all sins cleansed and consciences quieted: and who so departeth from these, hath left unto himself no hope of everlasting salvation. For it were wearisome and troublous( say they) for the people to resort to Christ, to the Apostles, and to the ancient fathers, and to observe continually what their will and commandment should be. This ye may se, is to withdraw the people of God from the weak elements of the world, from the leaven of the Scribes and pharisees, and from the traditions of men. It were reason no doubt that Christes commandments and the Apostls were removed, that these their devises might come in place. O just cause I promise you, why that ancient and so long allowed doctrine should be now abolished, and a new form of religion be brought into the church of God.   

THE TENTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  It should haue become Scoggin, Patch, Iolle, Harry Pattenson, or Will summer, to haue told this tale much better, then your superintendentships. And if ye would needs haue played the part yourselves, it had ben more convenient to haue done it on the stage, under a vises cote, then in a book set abroad to the world in defence of all your new Englishe church. Ye shall never make any reasonable man believe your scoffing tale. For thankes be to God, we be not so far destitut of his holy spirit and the light of his truth, 
By keeping of ancient ceremonies we do not put a weigheth institutions of Christ and his Apostles.  as for placing of ceremonies to put quiter away the institutions of Christ and of his Apostles. Though we esteem little your railing comparison of the catholic clergy with wicked jeroboam, yet ye should not so horribly haue backebitten all Christen people which haue ben before your time, with your spiteful words of going from God to idolatry, of blindness, and of a godless state. Neither be these things ye speak so much devilish villainy of, our own traditions, but for the more part either of the Apostles of Christ, or of most holy and ancient fathers. Neither through the same haue we made void the lawe of God, but rather caused it thereby to be the better vnderstanded and followed. And always we haue taught the people a difference between ceremonies, and Gods express commandments, between the traditions of holy fathers, and the special ordinances of God himself. Yet these mockers and slanderers burden us with abolishing of the ancient doctrine of Christ, and his Apostles, and with bringing in a new form of religion into the church.  
And yet whatsoever it be, 
apology  these men cry still that nothing ought to be changed, that mens mindes are well satisfied herewithal, that the church of Rome the church which cannot err, hath decreed these things. For silvester Prierias saith that the Romish church is the squire and rule of truth, and that the holy scripture hath received from thence both authority and credite. The doctrine faith he, of the Romish church, is the rule of most infallible faith, from the which the holy scripture taketh his force. And Indulgences and pardons( saith he) are not made known to us by the authority of the scriptures, but they are known to us by the authority of the romish Church, and of the Byshops of Rome, which is greater ● Pighius also letteth not to say, that without the licence of the romish Church, we ought not to believe the very plain scriptures: much like as yf any of those that cannot speak pure and clean Latin, and yet can babble out quickly and readily a little some such law latin as seruith the court, would needs hold that all others ought also to speak after the same way which Mametrectus and Catholicon spake many year ago, and which themselves do yet use in pleadyng in court, for so may it be understand sufficiently what is said, and mennes desires be satisfied, and that it is a fondenes now in the later end to trouble the world with a new kind of speaking, and to call again the old finesse and eloquence that Cicero and caesar used in their dayes in the Latin tongue. Somuch ar these men beholden to the folly and darkness of the former times. many things as one writeth, are had in estimation often times, because they haue ben once dedicate to the temples of the Heathen goddes: even so see wee at this day many things allowed and highlye set by of these men, not because they judge them somuch worth, but only because they haue ben received into a custom, and after a sort dedicate to the Temple of God.  
To answer you orderly, 
Confutation.  we cry not that nothing ought to be changed. In things that be amiss we are desirous of a redress. And where that is procured, 
In what case we can both suffer, and also do desire a change.  there is a change of abuse to the right use. This as well for orders of the church, as for common manners. And for necessary points darkly perceived, or not perceived at al, of them whom it behoveth to know perfitly: we cease not to require a plain and clear declaration, so as all doubts discussed the truth be sene evidently. 
The causes of general councils. In points of faith we suffer no change.  For these causes, and for reformation of manners general councils be holden. Thus we refuse not a profitable and a godly change. Mary touching the faith and truth, which every christen man is bound to hold, therein we admit no change, but rather offer to lose goods, lands and life, then to suffer any iote therein to be changed. Which constancy because ye like not in us, therefore ye haue departed from our communion, and divided yourselves with Luther, Zuinglius and calvin, as it were the ten tribes of Israel with wicked king jeroboam, from the church of God.  
Ye haue never done with the church of Rome. I can not blame you. For so long as that standeth, without ye repent and turn, ye shall never be taken but for such as ye be, schismatics and heretics. But alas poor souls, what think ye to overthrow that church builded vpon the rock Peter, against which hitherto neither tyrants, nor heretics far passing you in learning and honesty of common life, could ever prevail? Trow ye to extinguish that faith of the roman church, which is the same that was the faith of Peter, 
luke. 22.  for which Christ prayed, that it should never fail? Ye labour in vain. Well may satan win you, the church which our lord prayed for, by you shall he never win. give over therefore your vain and wicked attempts. Trust not in the patches, that falsely ye allege out of canonists gloses, scoolemen, rhyming poets, heretics, and who so ever, be they never so bad. Some ignorant persons may ye deceive, whose sins deserve the same. The more damnation ye heap to yourselves. Gods church shall ye never deceive.  
What sylvester Prierias saith, I mind not here to discuss. Neither where he saieth that you allege, haue you thought good to tell us, lest by perusing the place, we should take you in a lie, as we haue almost in all your other allegations. The like sincerity you use in alleging Pighius.  
We bind ourselves neither to the words of sylvester, nor of Pighius. If they err, what is that to us? Let them bear their own burden, if they tell truth, we believe them for truths sake. If otherwise, we leave that part for you to carp. If ye were forced by us or any other, to answer for all the strange and pernicious doctrines of your fellowes of Germany, france, Suitzerland, and Geneua, and for the peevish points of your ministers books of England: Lord what a do should ye haue, howe irksomly should ye be graveled, when ye might not see, how to plaster their ill-favoured lies, but with the scabs of other your own lies? If sylvester Prierias said, that for points of belief, the doctrine of the roman church is a squire to try their truth by: the same being well vnderstanded is right true. Likewise if Pighius say, that the roman church sheweth unto us, which be the approved and undoubted scriptures, and which be not: this is so true, as yourself( I suppose) will yeld thereunto. As for that the scripture received from the church of Rome authority, credite, and force, if in your meaning you exclude God, that is your lie, not Syluesters sentence. If relation be made to us, that we ought not give credite unto it, unless it had ben shewed to be holy scripture by the roman church, which is the true church of Christ: 
Contra epist fundamenti. cap. 5.  in this sense be it sylvester or who else so ever saith it, it is a true saying, and agreeable to S. Augustine, who said, Ego evangelio non crederem, nisi me catholicae Ecclesiae commoveret auctoritas. I would not bel●ue the gospel, except the authority of the catholic church moved me. And for that you allege out of him touching indulgences, truth it is, the full and whole knowledge of them is not plainly opened unto us by express and evident words of scripture, no more then the mystery of the blessed trinity, baptizing of infantes, and many other truths, but rather by the doctrine of the roman church.  
Where you tell us of Pighius, that he letteth not to say, that without the licence of the Romish church( for in that word you please yourself well) we ought not to believe the very plain scriptures: we will proclaim you a liar, until you show us where he spake so far beside reason and learning. The holy church doth not will us to stay from belief of the scriptures, until we haue licence, but by always and means inviteth and stirreth us to believe the truth in the scriptures uttered. Your similitude wherein you seem to mislike the lawyers latin used in their courts, how it squareth with your former tale, I see not. But as they who go to lawe, had rather win the right of their causes by a lawyer that pleadeth substantially, though in mean court latin, such as he might haue learned out of Mammetrectus and Catholicon, then to be differred from court to court, and at length to lose his right by one that handleth his matter in fine latin, and garnisheth his plea with trim ●… hrases of Cicero and Caesar: So Christen people who re●… arde their soul health, think it a surer way to receive the doctrine of our salvation at the teaching of the catholic church, wherein is no curiosity nor novelty affencted, then to be led away dangerously, they know not whether, by Lutherans, Zwinglians, and calvinists, who use many gay words, solemn protestations, and with fine lying, promise to bring all men to the faith and pureness of the primitive church.  
Our church say they cannot err: 
apology  they speak that( I think) as the Lacedemonians long since used to say, that yt was not possible to finde any Adulterer in all their common wealth: whereas in dede they were rather all adulterers, and had no certainty in their marriages, but had their wives common amongst them all. Or as the canonists at this day, for their bellies sake use to say of the Pope, that forsomuch as he is Lord of all benefice, 
Summa Angelica dictione Papa. Theodoricus de Schismate. Plutarchus.  though he sell for money Byshoprikes, monasteries, preisthod, spiritual promotions, and partith with nothing freely, yet because he counteth al his own he cannot commit Simony, though he would never so fain. But how strongly and agreablye to reason these things be spoken, we are not as yet able to perceue, except perchance these men haue plucked of the wings from the truth, as the Romaines in old time did proine and pinion their goddesse victory, after they had once gotten her home, to thende that with the same wings she should never more be able to flee away from them again.   

THE ELEVENTH CHAPTER.  
Toward the end of your apology sir Defender, 
Confutation.  who so ever you be that pieced it together, you do but trifle. Of like your stuff is spent. For here little say you, that you haue not said already. Wherefore I crave pardon of the Reader, if according to the slenderness of matters objected, my confutation seem also slender. Sir you do now but patch pieces together, which you haue gathered out of your note books into the same infarced, some out of the canonists, some out of the scoolemen, and them not of the greatest estimation, most of al out humanity books, wherein you be pretely sene. And that seemeth to be your chief profession. As for divinity, there appeareth no great knowledge in you. And because you do little other then iterate your vain toys, which you haue here before uttered: I think good to bestow the less labour in answering. You make an offer as though you would prove the catholic church to err. But God woteth your proofs be very childish. Neither be they so much proofs, as peevish asseuerations. mark who list, what reason you bring in this paragraph, or else where, that may move a mean wise man to come to your side. What ye rehearse of the Lacedemonians, it pertaineth to your own compaines no less then to them, I mean only your Apostates, monks and friers, priestes and Nonnes. For all these by reason of thier solemn vow of chastity made, not being in case they may lawfully mary, and their sacrilegious conjunctions after the minds of the best learned fathers not being wedlockes, but incestes, as we haue before declared: truth it is, they haue as great a gift as the old Lacedemonians had, if among them women were common without distinction of marriage, 
Among the vowed gospelers is never an aduoutrer, because all be incestuous. The Defenders be like the Lacedemonians.  after the order of Platos common weal, as you report. For within themselves, and keeping within their own communes, how can they haue any aduoutrer? For where is nor wife nor husband, as among that holy company: where shall there any aduoutrer be found? And as among them there is never an aduoutrer, because all be incestuous: so for that they haue all divided themselves from the church by schisms and heresies, there is neither amongst them all, ever a good Christen man.  
You find great fault in the canonists that be at this day, and name in your margin Summa Angelicae, the author whereof died many yeres past. If he, Theodoricus, what so ever he was, or any other Canoniste offend you, as for his bellies sake speaking of the Pope, that should set your teeth an edge: what pertaineth that to us, who defend the catholic faith, not the sayings of every Canoniste? You were best, seing you make so much ado with them, to article their errors, and either writ a railing book against them, which ye can easily do, or send one of your best learned superintendentes to Bononia, there in open school with disputations to confute them. And so doubtless ye shall either convert them, which were a worthy act, or prove yourselves fools, which were great pity.  
But to answer your objection, we say, first, that you allege Summa Angelica falsely. Nothing is found sounding to that you burden the Pope with all in the place by you quoted. in dict. Papa. Next, whereas it is written in Summa Angelica, 
In dict. simonia. verb. vtrum auctoritas.  In curia Romana titulus de simonia non habet locum, you sir Defender either not knowing what followed, or of malice abusing the place, haue reported the same, as if it were precisely said without any distinction. Where as in dede the self same sum useth this distinction, saying, verum est in iis quae sunt Simoniaca de jure positiuo solum, said non in iis quae sunt simoniaca de jure divino. Whereby he meaneth that the Pope is not under the rules of simony concerning such laws and pains, as he himself or his predecessors haue made in that behalf. For they haue made many things belonging thereto, as you may well know yourself, who are so pretely sene in the canon lawe, as it may appear by the often and cunning allegations which you bring out of the gloses. But concerning that simony which properly is so called, the Pope is no less subject thereto by the true iudgement of Summa Angelica, which you haue shamefully belied, then any other man.  
You iest at Gods blessed truth always remaining in his holy church, and profanely resemble it to a bide proined and pinyoned, that it fly not away. As though the church kept truth with such policy, 
The church is never destitute of the truth.  as the old Romaines are feigned to haue kept their Goddesse victory. Well sir, we tel you in sadness, we are assured of the truth, that it is in the church, and that it shall never depart from thence. And if ye call this cutting away of her wings, that it never fly from the church: we grant they be cut in such sort, as she shall keep the church for ever as her own neast. And will you know who telleth us this? even God himself saying in his prophet esay to Christ of his church. 
E●ai. 59.  I will make this covenant with them saith our Lord. 
the church hath always the word●s of truth, and the spirit of God, to understand t●em.  My spirit which is in thee, and my words which I haue put in thy mouth, shall not depart from thy mouth, and from the mouth of thy seed, and from the mouth of thy seades seed, saith our Lord, from this time forth, for evermore. Thus the church is promised to haue the words of God which he vouchesaued to put in the mouth of Christ, who are the words of truth, and also the spirit of God, by which those words be rightly vnderstanded, to remain and abide with her for ever. For this spirit Christ prayed to his Father, 
joan. 14.  as himself saith in S. John, to be given to the church, the spirit of truth, to remain with her everlastingly. In respect of the comfort and guiding of this spirit, 
Mat ult. In what sense it may be said, the truth hath no wings to fly away●.  he promised to be with his church all dayes to the end of the world. In this sense we grant you, the truth now hath no wings to fly away from the church withall. Against this truth what soever ye bring in reproof of Popes lives, whom notwithstanding most impudently ye belie, what undiscrete sayings or flateries so ever ye burden the canonists with, all turneth to nothing. The truth remaineth unshaken: your spirit of lying, scoffing, and malice thereby is discyfred.  
But what yf Ierem ye tell them, as is afore rehearsed, that these be lies? What yf the same prophet say in an other place, that the self same men who ought to be keepers of the betide, haue brought to nought and destroyed the lords vineyard? How if Christ say, that the same personnes who chiefly ought to haue a care over the temple, haue made the lords temple a den of thieves?  
Here come you in with your whatiffes, 
Confutation.  which commonly you use, when other rhetoric faileth you. We tell you plainly without any iffes, that ieremy meant of you, 
Ieremies and Christes saying returned vpon the Defenders. Ierem. 7. Ierem. 12.  and such as you be, and calleth your whole new fangled doctrine, verba mendacij, the words of lying, earnestly giving warning, that men give no credite to them. His other rebuk pertaineth also to you. For whereas ye haue broken into the church our lords vineyard under pretence to till it, and keep it: who seeth not how ye haue travailed all that ye can, to destroy it, and bring it to nought? Touching Christes saying, how truly may it be applied and spoken, to you, that of our lords holy temple ye haue made a den of theeues? 
mat. 21.  When were ever such theeues in the church of God, as ye are, who rob both the outward temples of all treasures and ornaments appointed to gods honour, and also the inward temples the souls of Christen people, of the holy sacramentes, of all godly service, of the true sense of Gods word, of the surety and simplicity of their faith?  
Yf it be so that the church of Rome cannot err, 
apology  it must needs follow, that the good lucke therof is far greater then all these mennes policy. For such is their life, their doctrine, and their diligence, that for all them the church may not onely err, but also utterly be spoyled and perish. No doubt, yf that church may err which hath departed from gods word, from Christes commandments, from the Apostles ordinances, from the primitive Churches examples, from the old Fathers and councils orders, and from their own Decrees, and which will be bound with in the compass of none neither old nor new, nor their own, nor other folkes, nor mannes lawe, nor Goddes law, then yt is out of all question, that the romish Church hath not onely had power to err, but that it hath shamefully and must wickedly erred in very dead.   

THE TWELFTH CHAPTER.  
A man would haue thought, you would haue brought some substantial argument whereby to prove, that the church erreth. Neither make you excuse in that you speak of the roman church. In this account we make no difference between the roman church, and the church. But all your proofs depend vpon your isses, which being denied, you haue no more to say. No doubt( say you) if that church may err which hath departed from Gods word, from Christes commandments, &c. then it hath erred in very dede.  
But sir, what if a man deny your supposal, and stay you in your first if? What haue you to prove it? All that you haue said hitherto, we know, and of little force it is. But no boubt say you, if that church may err, which hath departed from Gods word, &c. Yea forsooth if all iffes were true, then if heaven fell, we should catch larks. And if a bridge were made between dover and Calys, we might go to Boleine a foot, as William summer once told king Henry, if it be true that I haue heard say.  

apology  But say they, ye haue ben once of our fellowship, but now ye are become forsakers of your profession, and haue departed from vs. It is true we haue departed from them, and for so doing we both give thankes to almighty God, and greatly rejoice on our own behalf. But yet for all this, from the primitive Church, from the Apostles, and from Christ wee haue not departed, true it is. we were brought up with these men in darkness, and in the lack of knowledge of God, as Moses was taught up in the learning and the bosom of the Egyptians. We haue ben of your company saith Tertullian, I confess it, and no marvel at all, for saith he, men be made and not born Christians.  

Confutation.  Although what so ever ye say here, ye haue said before, as in all this later part of your apology ye do but like young scholars, that in grammar schools varie their vulgares in diverse latin, and the same hath ben already answered: yet because ye know this to be one of the greatest matters, that ye are charged with, ye haue differred your full discourse thereof unto this place. The matter is great in dede. Your own conscience telleth you,( as here ye show) that we burden you with it. We do so verily. 
The Defenders be worthily charged with departing from the communion of the catholic church. 1. joan. 2.  And would God ye considered the same duly. We say,( as ye report) that ye haue ben once of our feloweship, but now ye are become Apostates and forsakers of your profession, and haue wickedly departed from vs. By the name of us, we mean not some one particular company, but Christes catholic church. We say of you, as S. john said of the like, whom he calleth Antichristes: Ex nobis exierunt said non erant ex nobis. Nam si fuissent ex nobis, permansissent utique nobiscum. They are departed from out of us, but they were not of vs. For if they had ben of us, they had doubteles remained still with vs.  
But what is your answer hereunto? It is desperat, foolish, and lying. First ye confess the thing, and not only that, but also thank God for it, and greatly rejoice in it. And therein ye follow the worse sort of sinners, of whom Salomon saith. Laetantur cum male fecerint, 
proverb. 2.  & exultant in rebus pessimis. They be glad when they haue done evil, and rejoice in the worst things that are. Ye haue divided the church of God, ye haue rent our lords net, ye haue cut his wholewouen cote, which the wicked souldiers that crucified him, could not find in their hartes to do. Dionysius Alexandrinus writing to novatus the great heretic, who did as ye haue done, saith thus unto him, as Eusebius reciteth, 
Eccles. hist. lib. 6. ca. 5. in graecis. How heinous a crime it may be esteemed to divide the ahurche.  whereby ye may esteem the greatness of your crime. Thou shouldst haue suffered what so ever it were, that the church of God might not be divided. And martyrdom suffered for that the church should not be divided, is no less glorious, then that which is suffered for not doing idolatry. Yea in mine opinion it is greater. For there one is martyred for his own only soul, and here for the whole church. Thus it followeth that by your apostasy and by your dividing of Gods church, ye haue done more wickedly, then if ye committed idolatry.  

The Def●nders excuse of their apostasy.  But yet for all this,( say they) from the primitive church, from the Apostles, and from Christ we haue not departed. What can be said more foolishly? Why sirs is not the primitive church and this of our time one church? Doth it not hold together by continual succession till the worlds end? 
The primitive church and the church of our time is one church.  What, hath Christ mo churches then one? Is the primitive church quiter done, and now must there begin a new? Is not Christ, his Apostles, and all true believers in what time or place so ever they live, his one mystical body whereof he is the head, all other the members? As Christ is one, the holy ghost one, one faith, one baptism, one vocation, one God: so is the church one, which began at the first man, and shall endure to the last, whereof the living part on earth before the coming of Christ into flesh, was sometime brought to small number, after his coming, and after that the Apostles had preached and spread the gospel abroad: the number neither was ever, nor shalbe other then great( though sometime accounted small in respect of the vnbeleuers) until the coming again of the son of man, at what time he shall scantly find faith, 
luke. 18.  specially that which worketh by charity, in the earth. Against which time busily ye make preparation.  
For some part of excuse of your forsaking the church, ye say, 
A colour of excuse of their forsaking the church.  ye were brought up with us in darkness, and in the lack of knowledge of God, as Moses was among the Egyptians, for that ye bring out of Tertullian, helpeth you nothing at all. I pray you sirs, what darkness mean ye? speak ye of sin? We excuse not ourselves. But when took ye out the beam of your own eyes, that ye espy the mote of our eye? It were well ye proved yourselves honest men, before ye required us to be Angels. If ye mean the darkness of ignorance, as peradventure ye do, and the lack of knowledge of God: Now that ye are departed from us, and haue set chair against chair,( I se not cause why to say altar against altar) what more and better knowledge of God haue ye, then we haue, and ever haue had? 
What knowledge of God can these Defenders show themselves to haue, more then the catholik●s? joan. 17. Mat. 16.  Do we not know the articles of our belief? Tell us which do we lack. This is lyf● everlasting( saith our saviour in the gospel) to know thee God alone, and whom thou hast sent Iesus Christ. So far as God lighteneth our understanding with the supper natural light of his grace, this much we know. For which Peter the son of Iona was accounted blessed of Christ, the same we sinful papists through Gods grace, also know and confess. The commandments of God we know, what is good, what is evil, which be sins, which be virtues, what is to be followed, what is to be shunned, so far as is behofull, we be not ignorant.  
What is the darkness then, for which ye would needs be gone from us? And what is that worthy knowledge ye haue won by your departure? Tell us, that we may bye the books, and go to school with you. Truly without ye haue some hidden and secret knowledge, which ye haue not uttered to the world hitherto, as we believe ye haue not being such boasters as ye are: we see little cause, ye should twyte us of ignorance, and brag of your own knowledge. This we see full well, they that ronne away from us to your side, 
Our renegates be worthy doctors among the gospelers with in few dayes of their ronn●ng away from v●, were th●y never so ignorat at before.  be they monks or friers, tinkers or tapsters, cobblers or bodgers, white or black, by and by in your synagogues they be great rabbis. And ye the superintendentes admit them to be your ministers and preachers of the word, and tell them they can do well, and they believe no less themselves. But the people take them for such as they knew them before they took such degree, and many times for their good behaviour they forget their holy ministery, and christen them by their common name, which was not given them at the font. Yet all this proveth not either our ignorance, or yout marvelous and rare knowledge. Neither shall ye ever be able to prove to any man of learning and iudgement, that in any liberal sciences, or right knowledge of the scriptures, ye are comparable to the learned men of the catholic church. Though about fifty yeres past and upward for a space, the studies of eloquence and of tongues were intermitted: yet then and before those times was there no small number of men, 
Tho. walden, Al●um{us}, Beda, three worthy English men.  who had profound knowledge of all good artes, and specially of the holy letters. I report me to Thomas Walden, who very learnedly confuted the heresies of your great grandfather john Wicklef, to Alcuinus in the great Charles time, to Beda before that, all three English men, to anselm and Lanckfranck Bishops of England though strangers born, 
anselm, Lanfrank, Thomas of Aquine, S. Bernard, Rupertus.  to S. Thomas of Aquine, S. Bernard, Rupertus, and hundreds mo, which here is no place to reckon. Were not they by confession of all, great clerkes, do not the best learned of our time in obscure matters fetch light of them? To say the truth, in comparison of their clear light, your ill savouring snoffes may scantly seem to yield a dark smoke. Many talk of your painted sheathe, who were they learned in dede, would sone perceive neither that to be very fresh and gay: for as for your sword, what rusty and beggarly metal it is, the wiser part of the world seeth. Therefore ye shall do well sirs to speak no more of the darkness and ignorance of the catholic church, and to boast less of your great cunning and knowledge.  

apology  But wherefore I pray you haue they themself, the citizens and dwellers of Rome removed, and come down from those seven hills, whereupon Rome sometime stood, to dwell rather in the plain called Mars his field? They will say peradventure, by cause the conducts of water, where without men cannot commodiouslye live, haue now failed and ar dried up in those hills. Well then, let them give us like leave in seeking the water of eternal life, that they give themselves in seeking the water of the well, for the water verily failed amongst them. Thelders of the Iewes saith Ieremye, sent their little ones to the wateringes, and they finding no water, being in a miserable case and utterly marred for evangelist, brought home again their vessels empty. The needy and poor folk saith esay, sought about for water, but no where found they any, their tongue was even withered with thirst. even so these men haue broken in pieces al the pipes and conduits, they haue stopped up all the springs, and choked up the fountain of living water with dirt and mire. And as Caligula many yeres past locked fast up all the storehouses of corn in Rome, and thereby brought a general dearth and famine amongst the people, even so these men by damning up all the fountains of Goddes word, haue brought the people into a peetifull thirst. They haue brought into the world as saith the prophet Amos, a hungre and a evangelist, not the hunger of bread, nor the evangelist of water, but of hearing the word of God. With great distress went they scattering about, seeking some spark of heavenly light to refresh their consciences withall, but that light was already thoroughly quenched out, so that they could find none. This was a rueful state. This was a lamentable form of Goddes church. It was a misery to live therein without the Gospel, without light, and without all comfort.   

THE THIRTINTH CHAPTER.  
Well and witteely reasoned forsooth. 
Confutation. A substantial cause why these Defenders should depart from the church. mat. 5.  Because the Citizens of Rome for commodities sake of water, which Pindarus calleth best of all elements, withdrew themselves from their seven hills, and placed their habitations beneath in the plain about the rivers side of Tyberis: therefore these men must haue leave to depart from the church, which as Christ saith, is a city builded on hye vpon a hill, and to come down into the pleasant valleys of this world, to seek for the water of eternal life. No no sirs, if it were that wholesome water of eternal life which ye thirst after, ye would never haue departed from the high hill the catholic church, and come down into the valleys, where ye find the dirty puddles of fleshly pleasures, 
job. 40.  where the devill Behemoth as job saith, 
Num. 14.  dormit in locis humentibus, sleapeth in moist places. Israel the people of God kept on high in the mountaines, but the ungodly. Amalekite and the Cananey dwelled beneath in the valleys, as by moses not without cause it is mentioned. By my read ye shall forsake the damnable company of Amalekites and Chananees, 
Beware of Behemoth Defenders.  beware of Behemoth the spirit of pride and lechery, and gete ye up again from whence ye departed, into the hill, the church of God, where ye shall find pure and wholesome air, and the clear water of the fonteine of life, whereof ye may drink your fill, and thirst no more everlastingly. 
The riuers of the fonteine of life wer● never wholly dried up  For after that the veins of that fonteine were once opened, and rivers from thence derived through all the earth by the Apostles of Christ, the church being by them planted, and by their successors watered and multiplied over the whole world, through Gods goodness and merciful providence, they were never stopped, much less wholly dried up. Although for sin some partes or members of the church haue ben punished with scarcetie of that water, with drought, and thirst, specially before the coming of Christ into flesh,( at what time he opened the springs more abundantly), as the prophetes ieremy, Esaie, and Amos by you alleged do witness: yet never was the time, but in his church water was to be found, all that sought water brought not home their vessels empty. All were not starved for hunger and thirst of that water of Gods word. Therefore ye speak both slanderously and ignorantly for divines, where ye say, that we had broken in pieces all the pipes and conducts, that we had stopped up all the springs, and choked and damned up all the fonteines of living water with dirt and mire.  
Your malice against the church hath blinded your hartes so far, that ye say, 
If all the fonteines of Gods word had ben stopped up in times past, what in convenience therof should haue followed? Rom. 10. mat. 28.  all fonteines of Gods word were damned up, whereof it followeth that then the life of all men was lost, and so that Gods promises failed, and Christes blood was frustrat. For where all the fonteines of Gods word are stopped up, there is no faith, for faith is of hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Then was the faith quite gone by these fellows. Then was Christ false of his promise, who said, I will be with you all dayes to the worlds end. And lest I should seem to take their words captiously, and stretch them to a further sense, then they meant, as they would bear us in hand, that the water of life was quiter stopped up, and that Gods word was nowhere heard( for nine hundred yeres they make their account): so repeating the same sentence in other words following, they be not ashamed to say, the light was thoroughly quenched out, so that men could find none at all. Yet vnwares or ignorantly they call that faithless and pagan state, a lamentable form of Gods church, whereas they should haue accounted it no church at all. For where is no word of God, no light, no gospel at all, how can there be any church? Without these any multitude is no more a church, then without Christ, a man is a Christian, then a dead man is a man. And thus with malicious slandering, not with learned reasons, with their own affirmations, not with apt allegations, haue they gone about to prove, that these many hundred yeres the church hath erred. But thankes be to God, all this wind shaketh no corn. When all these hasty blasts be blown over, the church of God shall stand still unmoved vpon the rock Christ builded it on, and appear glorious in her steadfastness and truth, maugre the gainsaying of all heretics, 
Cantic. 6.  and shall appear to them terrible as a strong army set in battle ray.  

apology  wherefore though our departing were a trouble to them, yet ought they to consider withall, how just cause wee had of our departure.  

Confutation.  In dede our charity is such, as we confess it to be a grief unto us, to see you play the part of rebellious children, to use presumption for submission, contempt for obedience, spite for love. Yet sith that ye are desperate and incorrigible: as by your departing from us the church felt some anguish and trouble, so now that ye are gone, it is relieved, as the body is eased, when after a purgation it hath avoided evil humours. For your excuse ye would us to consider, how just cause ye had of your departure. 
The Defenders offe● to show just causes of thei● departure from the church.  Although no cause can justly be alleged, why any man should forsake the catholic church, and join himself to sects: yet let us hear, what cause ye pretend. That all the fonteines of Gods word haue ben by us stopped up, that the water of life was not to be found in the church, that the gospel was quiter lost, and all the light put out: this already haue ye said, but yet not proved. Now say your best.  
For if they will say, it is in no wise lawful for one to leave the fellowship wherein he hath ben brought up, 
apology  they may as well in our names or vpon our heads condemn both the Prophetes, the Apostles, and Christ himself. For why complain they not also of this, that Lot went quit his way out of sodom, Abraham out of called, the Israelites out of egypt, Christ from the Iewes, and paul from the Pharisees? For except it be possible there may be a lawful cause of departing, we see no reason why Lot, Abraham, the Israelites, Christ and paul may not be accused of sects and sedition, aswell as others.   

THE FOVRTINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation. The Defenders make a rope of sand, when they go about to show causes of their departure. Apocal. 18  Yet bring ye nothing to the purpose. Your proofs be so weak, and hang so evil together, that we may well tell you( which Irenaeus objected to heretics) that ye make a rope of sand. We say not, it is in no wise lawful for one to leave the fellowship, wherein he hath ben brought up. But contrariwise, if the fellowship be nought and wicked, every one is bound to eschew it. Depart from Babylon my people, and be not ye partakers of her sins, saith the heavenly voice to S. John. Therefore the examples ye bring, help nothing your cause.  
Loth went out of sodom, Abraham of Caldea, the Israelites of Egypt, paul from the pharisees, by Gods special warning. Where ye say Christ went from the Iewes, unless ye refer it to his stepping aside from them for a while: ye should rather haue said, the Iewes went from Christ. But whereto pertaineth this? Though ye were so malicious, as to compare the catholic church to sodom, to Caldea, to Egypt, to the Iewes and pharisees: yet I ween ye are not so proud, as to compare yourselves to Loth, to Abraham, to Gods peculiar people, to paul, to Christ himself. These departings we allow, and God required them, yours we blame, and God detesteth.  
And yf these men will needs condemn us for heretics, 
apology  because we do not all things at their commandment, whom( in gods name) or what kind of men ought they themselves to be taken for, which despise the commandment of Christ, and of the Apostles?  
Our frailty concerning life we accuse and lament, 
Confutation.  and commend ourselves to Gods infinite mercy. Touching belief and necessary doctrine of faith, rail ye at us never so much, we neither despise the commandments of Christ, nor the traditions of the Apostles. If we condemn you and take you for no part of our body, which is the mystical body of Christ, because ye teach strange doctrine contrary to that ye haue received, and will not hear the church nor obey the churches commandments: we do none otherwise then Christ himself hath taught us, 
Mat. 18.  that who so ever will not hear the church, we take him for no better then for an heathen and a publican.  

apology  If we be scismatiques because we haue left them, by what name shall they be called themselves which haue forsaken the greeks, from whom they first received their faith, forsaken the primitive Church, forsaken Christ himself and the Apostles, even as Children should forsake the parentes?  

Confutation. proof sufficient that these gospelers be schismatics.  Who soever depart from the catholic church, they be schismatics. ye haue departed from the catholic church, of these nine hundred yeres, ergo ye be schismatics. The first proposition ye will not deny, the second yourselves confess, the conclusion then must needs be true. If we say the same, blame us not. Neither say we that only, but also that ye are heretics. Whereby the measure of your iniquity is increased. The same crime ye would impute unto us, if ye wist how. If ye haue no more to lay to our charge, but that we haue forsaken the greeks, 
The west church hath not forsa●en the greeks, but the greeks haue forsaken the west church in some points. The roman church received not the faith from Grece.  ye shall not be offended with the world, if it give us the title, name, and estimation of catholics, as heretofore. For( remember yourselves) we haue not forsaken the greeks, but the greeks in some points haue forsaken vs. By the name of us, always I understand the catholic church, even the holy roman church, whose faith we profess, and with whom we communicate.  
And how standeth it with your learning, that we received the faith first from the greeks? For where ye say we haue forsaken the primitive church, yea Christ himself and the Apostles, ye haue told us this so often, that now we take them to be but words of course, and a common blast of your railing spirit. The roman church received the faith from jerusalem and not from Grece, as the rest of the world did, according to the prophecy. De Sion exibit lex,& verbum domini de jerusalem. 
Esai. 2.  The lawe shall come out of Sion, and the word of God from Ierusalen. 
Who brought the faith into the West.  Peter and paul the chief Aposttles( and john also if we may believe Tertullian) borough the faith into the West. At Rome they preached. At Rome they founded the church. From Rome they directed( specially Peter) into the provinces of the West, apostolic men to teach and preach. To this church as Hilarius saith, they powred out the gospel with their blood. 
Of whom received the land of britain the faith. joseph of Arimathaea. Eleutherius Pope. Luciu king of the Britons.  As for the land of britain our native country, if the faith were first brought hither by joseph of Arimathaea, and his fellowes, as by old tradition we are told: then was the church here first planted by faithful Iewes, and not by greeks. certain it is, that afterward it was watered by those whom the blessed martyr Pope Eleutherius sent hither at the the request of king Lucius. At length the English nation also received the faith from Rome by means of S. Gregory, who sent hither the holy man S. Augustine with certain others, of whom never a one was a greek.  
The like may be said of other countries of the West, of which every one received the faith by preachers sent some by Peter, some by Clement, some by other successors of Peter in the see apostolic. Though S. Dionyse and Theodorus Tharsensis bishop of canterbury, were greeks born, yet both they and who so ever else were sent into france, or any other province hereabout by Clement, Eleutherius, or gregory, or any other bishop of Rome: sure we are their doctrine was before tried to be agreeable in every point with the doctrine of the church of Rome, found by those two glorious Apostles Peter and Paul. This being true, we marvell what ye mean to charge us with forsaking the greeks, specially where ye say, we first received the faith from them. Which is no truer, then that we received our english language from them.  
For though those greeks, 
apology  who at this day profess religion and Christes name, haue many things corrupted amongst them, yet hold they still a great number of those things which they received from the Apostles. They haue neither private Masses, no mangled Sacramentes, nor Purgatories, nor Pardons. And as for the titles of high Byshops, and those glorious names, they esteem them so, as whosoever he were that would take vpon him the same, and would be called either universal bishop, or the head of the universal church, they make no doubt to call such a one, both a passing proud man, a man that worketh despite against all the other bishops his brethren, and a plain heretic.   

THE FIFTINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation. The greeks belied by the Defenders. The greeks haue mass without company communicating with the priest. The greeks pray in their mass for the dead. What things haue the greeks received of the Apostles after the mind of this Defender. H●lding without having.  As ye haue oftentimes belied us, so now ye belie the poor greeks. So little are ye able to say somewhat, and therein to say truth. For they haue mass commonly without company to communicate with the priest, which ye call private mass, so is it all Grece over, so is it in Asia, in Syria, in Assyria, in armoniac, and where so ever the religion of Christ is professed. As among the greeks in Venis I myself and diverse of our country men haue sene it commonly practised. Likewise pray they all for the dead, and think them to be relieved by the prayers, oblations, almose, and deeds of charity done for them by the living. Which mind and opinion implieth that faith which the church holdeth of purgatory.  
But though( say ye) those greeks haue many things corrupted, yet hold they still a great number of those things which they received of the Apostles. And wilt thou know Reader what they be? Forsooth they haue neither private masses, nor mangled Sacramentes, nor Purgatories, nor Pardons. Is not the wit of this Defender to be commended, that maketh a man to hold that which he hath not? Those greeks hold still saith he. What hold they? Mary they haue not this and that. This is a new kind of holding, for a man to hold that he hath not. If they hold still, then haue they still. But they haue not, saith he, then how hold they? A man may by the rules of this new logic, thus reason. The Turkes, Saracines, Iewes, Infidels, Idolaters, yea, the sheep of Cotteshold also if ye will, haue neither private masses, nor communion under one kind, nor purgatories, nor pardons: ergo they hold a number of things which they received from the Apostles. The antecedent is true. Who so ever denieth the consequent, must count this Defenders logic very simplo. What if one should make this argument, this Defender hath neither good logic, nor very fine rhetoric, nor profound philosophy, nor the right knowledge of divinity: ergo he holdeth many heresies? Though both the antecedent and consequent be true, yet is the argument nought. For by like reason one might conclude an honest vnlerned catholic man to be an heretic, which were false and injurious. Such is the logic, 
ablative and negative divinity.  such are the topikes of this new negative and ablative divinity, for so may we worthily call it. negative, in respect of their blasphemous tongues denyng sundry weighty points of our faith, ablative, in respect of their wicked hands, casting away, throwing down, and taking away many good things pertaining to the maintenance of Christen religion and Gods honour. Put them from their negatives and from their ablatiues, then in what case shall they stand?  
Now then since it is manifest and out of all peradventure, 
apology  that these men are fallen from the greeks, of whom they received the gospel, of whom they received the faith, the true Religion and the Church, what is the matter why they will not now becalled home again to the same men, as it were to their originals and first founders? And why be they afraid to take a pattern of the Apostles and old Fathers times, as though they all had ben void of understanding? Do these men, ween ye, see more or set more by the Church of God, then they dede who first delivered us these things?  
soft and fair sir Defender, 
Confutation.  you haue not yet proved that you say is manifest, and out of all peradventure. Remember you not the old homely verse of your sophistry, neque negatiuis, rectè concludere si vis? Though your ears be offended with the undue quantity of the syllables, yet ought your sense to admit the verity of the rule. What part of the faith the greeks haue sound and catholic, according to the scriptures rightly vnderstanded and expounded by the church through the instruction of the holy ghost, the same hold we also. Mary them( as we haue said) we take not for our originals and first founders. What faith the Apostles and their lawful successors preached and taught, 
The tristing of the Defender toward thende of thapologie causeth this confutation to contain some things of less weight.  the same we haue received, the same we keep, in the same will we die. speak to the purpose, or else I would you would make an end of your silly follies. For in dede you trifle and say nothing worth to be answered. And here little cause do you minister unto me, to utter substantial stuff. Which I desire the discrete Reader to consider for mine excuse, that with a trifler I do also buttrifle. Yet because hitherto I haue truly alleged all that ye bring, let us see more of your stuff, and patienly though not vnlothsomly hear your one selfe tale diverse times told with some variety of words.  

apology  We truly haue renounced that church wherein we could neither haue the word of God sincerely taught, nor the Sacraments rightly administered, nor the name of God duly called upon, which church also themselves confess to be faulty in many points: And wherein was nothing able to stay any wise man, or one that hath consideration of his own sauetie.  

Confutation.  Ye haue renounced that church, wherein ye might at all times haue the word of God truly taught, the sacramentes rightly administered, 
The causes which moved the Defenders to renounce the church.  the name of God duly called vpon, wherein we aclowledge no default touching faith. And why haue ye renounced this church, but for that ye might not be suffered to set forth to the loss of christen souls the detestable heresies of Wicklef, Lu●her, Zuinglius, calvin, and other your false maisters, which ye call your sincere word of God, for that ye might not at your pleasure abrogate five sacramentes, and minister two only after your schismatical and heretical manner, for that ye can not find in your hart to call vpon the name of God after such sort, as other Christian people do, and to desire Gods near friends the sainctes to pray for you, for that ye can not abide the order, ceremonies, and discipline of the church, for that ye will not be sheep of Christes fold under the feeding and government of the head shepherd Peters successor? 
An impudent lie.  That ye say there was nothing in the catholic church able to stay any wise man, or any that hath consideration of his safety: it is one of your impudent lies. There were both wise men in the church, and great multitudes of such as had good regard of their soul health, always before the devill had such a hand vpon Luther, and the rest of your new Apostles, and Apostates.  
To conclude, wee haue forsaken the Church as it is now, 
apology  not as it was in old time, and haue so gon from it, as daniel went out of the lions den, and the three Children out of the furnace: and to say trouth, we haue ben cast out by these menn( being cursed of them, as they use to say: with book, bel, and candle) rather then haue gon away from them of ourselves.  
The church that now is, 
Confutation.  and the church that was in old time, is one church, as a man in his old age is the same man, he was in his youth. From the which church no faults or imperfections can excuse you for your departing. Because you confess it yourself, blame him not that saith unto you, ex ore tuo te judico serve nequam. 
luke. 19.  Of thine own mouth do I judge thee thou naughty servant. Neither haue ye gone from it as Daniel was delivered out of the lions den, 
Daniel. 6.&. 3.  nor as the three children out of the furnace: but ye haue departed wilfully from the house of God, where touching faith all be of one accord, unto the synagogue of Antichrist, unto babylon of sects, where is no order but confusion, unto the kingdom of Satan, and there ye remain as it were in a den of lions, where that roaring lion with his fellowes, lieth in wait seeking whom he may devour. 
1. Pet. 5.  Ye haue stepped from the place of spiritual refrigerie, into the frying pan of schisms and heresies, and from thence after that ye haue now boiled and fried in malice and rancour against the church, except ye repent, ye are like to leap into the furnace of hell, that for ever shall torment you, and never consume you. complain not of your casting out of the church. To be excommunicate ye haue deserved. And that kind of punishment is by a merciful discipline extended vpon you, partly for your amendment, partly to conserve the rest of the body whole from your pestiferous contagion. Neither were ye by excommunication put from us, until ye had by contumacy severed yourselves from the church, and shewed yourselves desperate and incorrigible.  

apology  And wee are come to that church wherein they themselves cannot deny( if they will say truly and as they think in their own conscience) but all things be governed purely and reverently, and as much as we possibly could, very near to the order used in the old time.  

Confutation. whither these gospelers be come.  To say truly, and as we think in our conscience, as we know by learning, and as the spirit of God, who teacheth his church all truth, informeth us, ye are come unto the malingnant church, to the congregation of reprobates, whither as into a sink in maner all the heresies that Satan ever raised up from the beginning, be avoided, that the holy things, scriptures, and mysteries of God were never so impurely and villainously handled, never so contrary to the will and order of those holy fathers, who first founded and instructed the churches.  
Let them compare our Churches and theirs together, 
apology  and they shall see that themselves haue most shamefully gon from the Apostles, and we most justly haue gon from them. For we following the example of Christ, of the Apostles, and the holy fathers, give the people the holy Communion whole and perfit: But these men contrary to all the fathers, to all the Apostles, and contrary to Christ himself, do sever the sacraments, and pluck away the one parte from the people, and that with most notorious sacrilege, as Gelasius termeth yt.  
we haue brought again the Lords supper unto Christes institution, and will haue it to be a Communion in very deed, common and indifferent to a great number, according to the name. But these men haue changed all things contrary to Christes institution, and haue made a private mass, of the holy Communion. and so it cometh to pass, that we give the lords supper unto the people, and they give them a vain pageant to gaze on.  
We affirm together with the ancient fathers, that the body of christ is not eaten but of the good and faithful, and of those that are endowed with the spirit of christ. Their doctrine is, that Christes very body effectually, and as they speak, really and substantially, may not only be eaten of the wicked and unfaithful men, but also( which is monstrous to be spoken) of myse and dogges.  
We use to pray in Churches after that fashion, as according to Paules lesson, the people may know what wee pray, 
1. Cor. 14.  and may answer Amen, with a general consent. These men like soundinge metal, yelle out in the churches unknown and strange words without understanding, without knowledge, and without devotion, yea and do it of purpose, because the people should understand nothing at all.   

THE SIXTINTH CHAPTER.  
As comparison can not duly be made between light and darkness, between truth and lying, between Christ and Belial: 
Confutation.  so neither between the catholic church, and starting holes of heretics. You say much, and prove nothing. How often times do you tell us, that we are gone from the Apostles, and that ye are justly gone from us? affirm it less, and prove it better. The most ye haue to crack of, 
The things whereof the Defenders crack, and for which they will seem to pass the catholics.  which ye haue never done withall, is your ministering of both kindes unto the people, your new found holydaie the english communion, your service in the vulgar tongue, and your vile objection of mise and dogges. This is the storeboxe of M. Iuelles high divinity, which he maketh no great store of, but shaketh it abroad every where. To every point I haue said so much, as is enough to stay the hartes of those that fear God, in mine answer to M. Iuelles chanlenge. To the matter of both kindes and the objection made out of Gelasius, in the second article. To that of private mass, in the first article. To all that is said for the church service in the vulgar tongue, in the third article. To the objection of Mise, dogges, and worms, in the 23. article. The same here to rehearse again, I think it needles.  
But where ye affirm the body of Christ not to be eaten but of the good and faithful only, if ye mean the sacramental eating, so as it is eaten under the sacrament in the visible form of bread and wine, and not of the spiritual eating only: that is false. In that ye say the fathers be on your side, meaning the sacramental eating: ye belie them. And so likewise reporting our doctrine to be, that wicked and unfaithful men may eat the body of Christ effectually, ye belie vs. We teach that the evil may eat the body of Christ really, that is in dede, but not effectually. They only eaten effectually, who eating it worthily obtain the effect of Christes body. Which is the unity of the mystical body of Christ, 
Lib. 4. dialog.  and increase of grace. There is verily( saith S. Gregory) in synners and in them which receive vnworthely, the true flesh of Christ, and his true blood, said essentia, non salubri efficientia, but in substance not in wholesome effect. If your lady the interpreter hath put in a sponefull of lying of her own tempering into your hochepot, that was full of false mengle mingle-mangle before: blame her for it, revoke the error, and beware hereafter, how ye admit women, though ye love them never so much, to be meddling and tampering with your clergy matters. That evil men receive the true body of Christ sacramentally, nolesse then good, where I might allege in manner all the old fathers: S. Augustine only may suffice, 
Epi. 162.  who affirmeth the same speaking thus of Iudas. Tolerat ipse dominus Iudam, diabolum, furem,& venditorem suum sinit accipere inter innocents discipulos, quod norunt fideles praetium nostrum. Our Lord himself doth tolerate Iudas, and suffereth a devill, a thief, and him that sold him, to receive amongst his innocent disciples our price, which the faithful do know. Who desireth to see some good number of testimonies out of the fathers for this point, that evil and wicked men eat the body of Christ, 
In responsione ad object. 94  though to their condemnation: may it please him to red the learned confutation of the wicked Capharnaites made by the reverent prelate steven late bishop of Winchester of blessed memory. There he shall find enough to satisfy his desire. But what need any man to require the testimonies of fathers, 
1. Cor. 11.  sith S. Paul teacheth us so to believe? Who so ever( saith he) eateth this bread, and drinketh of the cup of our Lord vnworthely, he shall be guilty of the body and blood of our Lord.  
But not to tarry about rehearsing all points wherein we and they differ, for they haue well nigh no end, 
apology  we turn the scriptures into all tongues, they scant suffer them to be had abroad in any tongue:  
Concerning the turning of the scriptures into all tongues, 
Confutation. The translation of the bible into vulgar tongues.  I refer the reader to the fiftinth article of my answer to M. Iuelles challenge. We gladly suffer them to be had in every place of christendom in the learned tongues, hebrew, greek, and latin. Neither were they altogether forbidden to be had in some vulgar tongues, before the fancy malepertnes of heretics forced the gouernours of the church for safeguard of the people to take other order.  

apology  We 'allure the people to red and to hear Gods word, they drive the people from it.  

Confutation.  Ye 'allure the people busily to hear and read the scriptures for evil purpose. And thereby ye haue filled their hartes whom ye haue deceived, with pride, so as they think themselves able to judge of the highest questions that be in divinity. We keep the people so far as we can for you, from heresies, and require them rather to be hearers, then iudges, and to learn necessary knowledge of Gods word at wholesome and Godly sermons.  

apology  We desire to haue our cause known to all the world, they fly to come to any trial.  

Confutation.  Then why came ye not to the chief and most lawful consistory of the world, the late general council at Trent? But perhaps your desire is to haue your cause known to all the world, not to be examined by lawful iudges. Ye haue your desire. Your cause is known to all, and of all good men condemned. What trial should we come unto? Our doctrine hath had to high a teacher, to be tried by men now. It hath ben approved to long, to be put in daying in these dayes at the later end of the world.  

apology  We lean unto knowledge, they unto ignorance. We trust unto light, they unto darkness.  

Confut.  Ye lean to the favour of secular Princes, whom by flattery and heresy ye may deceive. Where ye be not admitted to their favour, there ye lean to sedition and rebellion. Whether it be so or no, I report me to the late tumults of france, and the subiectes rule of Scotland. What your company attempted in England in queen Maries time, I ween ye can better remember it, then commend it. crack not of your great knowledge, nor of your light. O be to them, crieth our Lord in Esaie, 
Esai 5.  that say, good is evil, and evil is good, that put light for darkness, and darkness for light. Though all among us haue not so much knowledge and light, as their vocation requireth, yet to impute ignorance and darkness to the whole church, and to all in general, yea and to say, that we lean unto it, and trust in it: as it is said with much untruth, so besides all modesty. Had ye that knowledge and light, ye ought to haue, never would ye so haue said. Your demeanour is so evil, your doctrine so false, your tongue so railing, that we take your word for no slander.  
We reverence as it becometh us, 
apology  the writings of the Apostles and Prophetes, and they burn them.  
He that reverenceth these holy writings of the Apostles and Prophetes, 
Confutation.  reverently observeth the precepts in them contained. For he that loveth me saith Christ, 
John. 14. Good life trieth the love of Gods perceptes.  will keep my word. This keeping consisteth in practise of life. And he that liveth best, loveth him most. How far ye keep the precepts of holy scripture, your rebellion against the church, your despite against him, whom Christ hath appointed to be shepherd over all, your breach of vows, which with solemn protestation ye haue made to God, your contempt of the most high sacrament of the altar, wherein we haue assurance of our lords true and real body by his own word, your tredding of it under feet, briefly your manifold despites, disobediences, and villainies to all holy things, orders, ceremonies, mysteries, and disciplines, do show. As for those holy writings of the Apostles and Prophetes, we burn not. But it irketh you, that we burn your false and corrupt translations, and such books of yours, as we find to contain pestilent heresies, which being suffered to go abroad, were like to poison many a Christen soul.  
Finally we in Gods cause desire to stand to Gods only iudgement, they will stand only to their own. 
apology   

Confutation.  What so ever ye pretend, the cause ye haue taken in hand to defend, is not Gods cause, neither is this stir, which ye make in the world, 
Hosius contrabrentiton lib. 1. Fonteine. This new gospel is not so earnestly begun to be set forth, and maintained for Gods sake. thieves and the defenders desire to haue their causes judged of God, and not of lawful iudges appointed by God.  for Christes sake. Luther himself when at a disputation with doctor Eckius, inflamed with anger, and passing the bounds of modesty, was admonished of certain, for as much as it was Gods cause that was treated, to handle the matter more soberly and with the spirit of softness, he broke out into these words. Non propter Deum haec res caepta est, nec propter Deum finietur. This matter is not begun for Gods sake, neither for Gods sake shall it be ended. therefore speak no more to us of Gods cause. There be other causes that move you to do, as ye do.  
But in this cause( ye say) what so ever it be, ye stand to Gods only iudgement. So fain would theeues also. For then would they hope to escape hanging, if they had none other judge but God. This is your shift, because your guilty conscience dareth not to be judged by the church of God that now liveth on earth, though Christ would it to be heard never so much. Ye appeal to the primitive church, to the Apostles and Prophetes, who be gone out of the earth, and be not now in state to pronounce sentence against you, and to God himself, who hath left now to speak to men as he spake in the old time to the patriarkes, to Moyses, and to the Prophetes.  
But sirs beware how ye stand to Gods only iudgement, think with yourselves, that by the iudgement of God ye are already condemned, because his holy church which iudgeth his judgements, hath for your heresies pronounced sentence against you. Were not your special trust in lying, ye would not say, that we stand only to our own judgements. Ye know well enough,( for ye blame us for it) that touching points of faith and necessary doctrine of salvation, we follow not our own private iudgemntes, but the sense of the holy ghost divulged to the church, the scriptures by the same expounded, the traditions of the Apostles, the authority of the councils, and the mindes of the most ancient and best learned fathers.  
Wherfore if they will way all these things with a quiet mind, 
apology.  and fully bent to hear and to learn, they will not only allow this determination of oures who haue forsaken errors, and followed christ and his Apostles, butte themselves also will forsake their own selves, and join of their own accord to our side.  
All these things and the whole sum of your doctrine, 
Confutation.  all your begynninges and preachings we haue advisedly weighed, and the same by no means can we allow, except we would leave the faith, and embrace heresies, forsake Christ and his Apostles, and follow wicked Luther, and that detestable rabble of lecherous vowbreakers, that be your Apostles and authors of your damnable sects, and depart from the pillar and ground of truth, and come to your wavering and mutable company the synagogue of Antichrist. But if ye would call to God for grace, humble yourselves, remove from within you the spirit of pride, of self liking, of malice, and of lechery, which keepeth you from seing what ye ought to believe, and how you ought to live, and would by humility, obedience, charity, and cleans of life, make in you a place ready to receive the holy ghost: we doubt not but ye should see the damnable state ye stand in, forsake your heresies and incestuous wedlockes, boast less of your following of Christ and his Apostles, and become the true disciples of Christ in dede, join with his church again, from whence ye haue severed yourselves, and so live in hope of bliss to come, whereof none shal be partakers, that forsake to be members of the catholic church.  
THE end OF THE FIFTH PART.    

THE SIXTH PART.  

apology  but peradventure they will say, it was treason to attempt these matters without a sacred general council: for in that consisteth the whole force of the church: there CHRIST hath promised he will ever bee a present assistant. Yet they themselves without tarrienge for any general council, haue broken the commandments of god, and the decrees of the Apostles: and as wee said a little above, they haue spoyled and disannulled almost all, not only ordinances, but even the doctrine of the primitive church. And where they say it is not lawful to make a change without a council, what was he that made us these laws, or from whence had they this injunction?  

THE FIRST CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  HEre entre these defenders into a common place concerning general councils. And because if general councils continue in that estimation and authority they haue ever had, their private conspiracies and false conveyances in corners be like to be dashed: they stretch all the synnowes of their wits to say what they can against councils in general, and chiefly against the late general council of Trent. Now pricketh forth their Secretary, 
The Defenders giveth the onset vpon us with ablinde peradventure.  who thinketh himself a fresh soldier in rhetoric, and giveth the onsette vpon us, with a blind peradventure. But sir what so ever you imagine us to say, touching a general council, we are not so simplo as to grant( which your peradventure seemeth to surmise of us) that your heretical and most ungodly matters, which you speak of, might without blame be attempted by licence of any council. Now once again because your stuff is spent, and haue no other thing to say: thereof it followeth by the topikes of your rhetoric( for good logic we see none ye haue) that we haue broken Gods commandments, the decrees of the Apostles, the ordinances of the primitive church, and I can not tell what else. To let pass that you haue well near a hundred times said, and proved never a once, take this for an answer to your where they say, that such wicked changes in religion, as ye haue made, neither is it lawful to make with a council, nor without a council, because they are against the substance of our religion founded and instituted by Christ.  
king Agesilaus, truly didde butte fondelye, 
apology  who when he had a determinate answer made him of the opinion and will of mighty jupiter, would afterward bring the whole matter before Apollo, to know whether he allowed thereof as his father jupiter didde or no: But yet should wee do much more fondelye, when wee may hear god himself plainly speak to us in the most holy scriptures, and may understand by them his will and meaning, yf wee would afterward( as though this were of none effect) bring our whole cause to be tried by a council, which were nothing else but to ask whether men would allow as God did, and whether men would confirm Gods commandment by their authority.  
jupiter and Apollo whom the deceived antiquity honoured as Gods, in dede were Idols. 
Confutation.  Into whom evil spirits enemies of mankind entered, and out of them gave answers to those that consulted them for things uncertain. Their answers sometimes were true, sometimes false. With both their intent was to deceive men. Agesilaus having found by experience of others, that either at sometimes it was not true, what so ever jupiter had answered, or at lest very doubtful and hard to understand: he thought good, to be the better assured of that he demanded, to hear also the answer of Apollo, who had special praise for oracles. Neither herein did he so fond, as you say.  
Now( if I may haue leave to compare holy things with profane which you do without leave) forasmuch as the scriptures wherein God speaketh unto us, be in sundry places not most open and plain to humane senses, and many by mistaking them be deceived: were it not well done of you for the more surety and better understanding of that ye go about, 
It is a wise way to try and examine doctrine by the rule of the Tradition of the church. johan. 14.  I mean in matters concerning religion, to follow the iudgement of the catholic church represented in general councils? Yea we say boldly, that surer it is in points of faith to lean to the exposition of the fathers agreeing together, and to follow the tradition of the church: then to trust to yourselves, or to the letter of the scriptures scanned only by your own wits. For the church is promised to be led into all truth by the holy ghost. Ye can not say any such promise hath ben made to your particular company. therefore it were not fond done, as ye say, but wisely say we, if ye tried and examined your doctrine, which ye pretend to be according unto the scriptures, by the rule of ecclesiastical tradition, which is the chief rule to try every doctrine by. Which rule is nowhere better to be sene, then in general councils, where is both excellency of all knowledge, and the assistance of the holy ghost the spirit of truth. Neither is this to seek allowance of that which God doth at mans hand, nor confirmation of that he commandeth, by humane authority, but to examine private censures by the censure of the holy ghost, and to submit private opinions to public iudgement.  

apology  Why I beseech vou, except a council will and command, shall not truth be truth, or God be God? If Christ had ment to do so from the beginning, as that he would preach or teach nothing without the Bishops consent, but refer all his doctrine over to Annas and Caiphas, where should no we haue ben the Christian faith? Or who at any time should haue heard the gospel taught? Peter verily, whom the Pope hath oftener in his mouth and more reverently useth to speak of, then he doth of Iesu Christ, did bodily stand against the holy council, saying, it is better to obey God, then men. And after Paul had once entirely embraced the gospel, and had received it not from men, nor by man, but by the only will of God, he did not take aduise therein of flesh and blood; nor brought his case before his kinsmen and brethren, but went forthwith into Arabia to preach Gods divine mysteries, by Gods only authority.  
If you occupy a flute no better, 
Confutation.  by my read you shall give over your piping and flouting. Truth is truth, and God is God, whether any council will or nill. Mary as for the truth and for God, every council lawfully assembled hath will: so against the truth and against God, it hath no nill. As God is of himself and by himself, and not of man or angels: so his everlasting truth dependeth not of councils. Yet as God hath revealed himself to his church, and by his church is set forth to the world: so to the church he hath commended the word of his truth, and given his spirit to understand it, and in the church it is kept, and by the church it is declared. Wherein who so ever agreeth not with the church, but repyneth against the church, he strayeth from the truth, and holdeth of Antichrist.  
To that you bring of Christ, Peter, and Paul, we say, Christ is peerless, Peter agreed with the rest of the Apostles, and for good cause refused conference with the wicked synagogue of the Iewes, who openly professed enmity against the truth, neither was it right that he should hear them, but now rather that they should hear him and the Apostles. As for that you say of Paul in your defence, your case is far unlike. When ye prove unto us, that ye are specially called as Paul was, and haue a special commission to preach against the doctrine of the church, as he had against the wicked Iewes, then a Gods name take no aduise of any man, but forthwith preach and cry out so loud as ye list, so that ye go into Arabia, as Paul did, or where else so ever ye will. For every good man would be loth England should be troubled with you.  

apology.  Yet truly we do not despise councils, assemblies, and conferences of Bishops and learned men: neither haue we done that we haue done altogether without Bishops or with out a council. The matter hath ben treated in open parliament, with long consultation, and before a notable synod and convocation.   

THE SECOND CHAPTER.  

Confutation. Contemning the general councils they will seem to esteem parliaments and their own particular convocations.  Either your tongue agreeth not with your heart, or else I will prove the contrary by your own arguments, which in the next paragraph before this ye haue huddeled up. For whereas your matters are( as ye ordinarily say) evident by plain scripture, and the word of God is readen of every man( without distinction and limitation) therefore ye do first of all play as fond a part as king Agesilaus did, who receiving an answer of mighty jupiter, would afterward bring the matter before Apollo. Yea furthermore, ye do much more fond then he, if when ye may hear God himself speak plainly to you in the most holy scriptures, ye would bring the whole cause to be tried by a council. Thirdly, I can not but desdaine at your doings, and say with your own words unto you: Why I beseech you except a council will and command, shall not truth be truth, and God be God? Fourthly, I allege after your maner the example of Christ himself, who preached without the bishops consent, and referred not his doctrine over to Annas and Caiphas. Fifthly, I put you in remembrance of Peter, which boldly stood against the holy council. Sixthly, to conclude I say that Paul, after he had once entirely embraced the gospel, he did not take aduise therein of flesh and blood, 
Galat. 1.  nor brought the case before his kinsmen and brethren.  
How say ye then now, are not these your own proper reasons, as by the lineaments of them ye may see at the first, and do they which use such maner of arguments, conclude any regard to be made of councils? For if against general councils, which are furthered with the wisdom, experience, authority, power, and prayer of the best and the most in all christendom are disgraced, withstanded, condemned by your foresaid worshipful reasons: what estimation can ye require to be given to assemblies and conferences of provincial councils? Therefore either ye greatly belie yourselves, in making a wise as though ye despised not councils, against which ye argue so lustily, or else ye do wickedly to give by your arguments occasion to your readers, to condemn the assemblies and conferences of bishops out of all christendom, yourselves in the mean while most honestly believing it, that councils are not to be despised.  
But go to now notwithstanding your examples, which do all make to the contrary. How prove ye that ye despise not councells? Mary by your own fact and example, saying that ye haue not done that which ye haue done altogether without bishops, or without a council. Surely wonder it was, that ye remembered not then king Agesilaus, Christ, S. Peter, S. Paul, besides other examples, which follow hereafter in this your apology, and vpon the sight of them departed from the assembly and council, to which your bishops( as ye call them) and learned men resorted. But your heads were occupied with other matters, and it seemed worthwhile to do that which ye would do not altogether without bishops and council.  
Be it so then. Where haue ye treated of your matters? That matter hath ben treated( say ye) in open parliament, with long consultation, and before a notable synod and convocation. First in what parliament? mean ye the first of our sovereign lady queen Elizabeth, or any of those of king Edward the 6. his dayes? If ye mean any of those so long ago passed, such as afterward in his sister queen Maryes time were repealed, 
The Defenders argument or parliament serveth in defence of the catholics, no less then of the gospelers.  although ye made no lie at all, in saying your matters to haue ben treated then in open parliament, and with long consultation: yet except ye proved them to be allowed also by full parliament, ye should never haue made mention of them, specially whereas the parliaments in queen Maryes dayes with as due consultation and full assent of all states and degrees condemned your predecessors doings, as ever they were by any favour commended, that was shewed in the young princes nonage. But if ye mean( as by reason ye must) the parliaments of these later dayes, the first of al did make most for you, and yet how open was it for you? Had ye any place at all in it? Were ye admitted within the doors? Or had ye any thing to do in that assembly? Consider then with what consultation your purposes were concluded. Did they tarry many months about it? Had they bishops? Had they divines and the most learned, to reason to and fro with all liberty? Was the authority of the universal church of Christ and the doctrine of the ancient fathers considered? Ye say in latin plenis comitijs, that is in the full and whole assembly, as though none at all had there resisted, but every man had yielded to your matters. What say ye then of the spiritual lords a great part of the parliament, and without all doubt the part which must be chiefly and only regarded when the question is of religion? How many of them gave their voice to your gospel? Yea which of thē al did not resist it? One alone, I must confess, was afterward made to break unity, of whom a right good and catholic bishop said, to a noble man, we had but one fool among us, and him ye haue gotten unto you. But as of the spiritual lords ye had none at all,( except that one little worthy of the name of a bishop and lord whose learning was small and honour thereby much stained) so of the temporal ye had not all, and so had ye also in the lower house very many and well learned, that spake against you. And mo would, had conscience ben as free, as authority was dreadful. And yet, call ye this a full parliament, and a parliament which had all his partes wholly favouring you?  
But let us consider the notable convocation in which your matter hath ben treated. 
Of the gospelers not able convocation.  If ye mean the clergy coming together at that first parliament time of which we speak, it was of catholics not of sacramentaries, and it put up a bill against your preachings, so far it was of from confirming them. If ye mean any since that time in which your superintendentships met together, for what cause was it a notable synod, and a notable convocation? Or with what possibility of consultation may we think, that ye did treat there of your matters, which were first concluded, against the catholic bishops wills, and without any voice of yours, before ye came to your consultation? mark I pray you well, these two times. When ye did first in this our queens time break into the realm, in the parliament forthwith ensuing, the Pope was renounced, your cause was preferred. But how? Against the will and sentences of the bishops and learned men, and against the express instructions and intimations of the convocation then gathered. And therefore ye can not crack, concerning that time, of your long consultation and full parliament, by which your matter should seem to be commended. It followed then afterward, that catholic bishops were imprisoned, and ye placed in their churches. And then in dede, when all went with you, a parliament was holden, and a convocation also of ministers. But is this that notable convocation, without which ye did not that which ye do? How sensible and foolish a lie is this, to report as though ye had not proceeded in your matters, without long consultation, whereas your purposes were by other ways concluded for you, before ye had any power to make a convocation? Yet these absurdities and objections notwithstanding, ye dare to speak of full parliament, long consultation, notable synod, as who should think, that it were no marvell, why your gospel hath ben received, because forsooth, all things were examined to the uttermost, in full parliament and a notable convocation. Which if it were true in dede, it might justly move a simplo and vnlerned man, to see a whole realm in a full parliament, advisedly to determine any matter. And this being most available to winning of credite, and yet in the very dede itself, lest able to be proved, ye be desperate in your lying, and crack of a full parliament and a notable synod, not regarding by what means ye promote your cause to the multitude, and save yourselves from reproach of extreme folly. For otherwise ye which can so amplify the small and obscure meetings of a few calvinists of one little island, what would ye not say of the last general council, to which more nations were assembled together, 
The greatness of the last general council of Trent.  then are shires in England, more yeres were bestowed in consultation, then weekes in your full parliament, more bishops defined and subscribed, then were ministers of all sorts in your notable synod by many partes.  
I haue tarried the longer about this point( gentle reader) because it is much worth to be considered quietly. first how shamefully and notably these men trot forth in lying, then how gorgeously and solemnly they can commend their own convocations, and last of all how injuriously and contemptuously they dare speak of the general council. An other thing yet more is to be considered, 
The supper indentes children not yet made leg t mate by parliament.  that all their doings are so well allowed in full parliament, that to this day it can not be obtained, that their superintendents and ministers children so many as haue taken holy orders, should be legitimate. Lastly if they will needs haue their matters seem to depend of their parliament, let us not be blamed, if we call it parliament religion, parliament gospel, parliament faith. 
parliament faith.  Yet shall ye give us leave, who fear to lose our souls, to believe that we haue received of old from Christ and his Apostles by continual successions of lawful bishops. As for your notable synod and convocation ye speak of, Peter and Paul, jerome and Augustine we know, these new Apostates, and strangers of Geneua, from whence they came, and whither they will, we know not.  
But touching this council which is now summoned by the Pope pus, 
apology  wherein men so lightly are condemned which haue ben neither called, heard, nor seen, yt is easy to guess what we may look for, or hope of yt.   

THE THIRD CHAPTER.  
The general council of Trent is now at length by Gods special favour concluded and ended. 
Confutation. Of the council of Trent.  What haue ye to say to it? Forebeare your accustomend lying, what haue ye to say to it? For matters of faith, what is not sound and true? For manners, what sore lacketh due salve? For discipline, what disorder hath not wholesome restrainctes and punishments? What defects be not providently considered how to be supplied? What abuses be not required to be taken away, as far as mans wit could devise, and the weakness of the present age can bear?  
In times paste when nazianzen saw in his daies how men in such assemblies were so blind and wilful, 
apology  that they were carried with affections, and laboured more to get the victory then the truth, he pronounced openly, that he never had sene a good end of any council: what would he say now yf he were a live at this day, and understood the heaving and shouing of these men? For at that time, though the matter were laboured on all sides, yet the controversies were well heard, and open errors were put clean away by the general voice of all partes: But these men will neither haue the case to be freely disputed, nor yet how many errors soever there be, suffer they any to be changed. For it is a common custom of theirs, often and shameleslye to boast that their church cannot err, that in it there is no fault, and that they must give place to us in nothing. Or yf there be any fault, yet must it be tried by bishops and abbots, only because they be the directors and Rulers of matters, and they be the Church of God. Aristotle saith, that a city cannot consist of bastards: but whether the Church of God may consist of these men, let their own selves consider. For doubtless neither be the abbots legitimat abbots, nor the bishops natural right bishops.  

Confutation. Epi. 102.  gregory nazianzen in his epistle to Procopius saith thus. I refuse to come to whatsoever council of bishops. Because I could never yet to this day see the end of any council endued with any profit, and after which, things amiss were not rather made more grievous, 
The place of Nazianzen answered.  then healed. nazianzen in that epistle spake of provincial councils, specially those that were holden in his troublesome times, where most commonly heretics through favour of their deceived Princes bare the swea. which in matters of faith could hardly then obtain any credite among the catholics, unless they had ben confirmed by the authority of the Bishop of Rome, of which sort at that age were few. Those other nazianzen had experience of, of these he had not. Albeit in dede the utility of the Nicene council in his time, that is to say within so few yeres after the same was holden, was not yet thoroughly espied and fully known abroad. Neither would he, if he were alive at this day, reprove the holy general council of Trent, as ye do. For why should he? Was not all that ye haue to say in defence of your heresies, there proponed, freely disputed, to the uttermost discussed, and finally put clean away by the general voice of all partes?  
What ye mean by your heaving and shouing, we understand not. That all the fathers there concluded their decrees with perfit unity and concord, which spiteth you and the devill not a little, we are well assured. That we aclowledge no errors in our catholic faith, neither that the church erreth, having always according to Christes promise the assistance of the spirit of truth, 
joan. 14.  which the world can not receive, saith our Lord, and therefore neither your sects, being altogether of the world and of the flesh: herein we boast not shamelessly, but ye impute errors unto us shamelessly, and haue never done with it, and yet can charge us with proof of never a one. And how shameless be ye to require us to yield and give place unto you? Who made you iudges over us? Who gave you commission? Where is your warrant?  
Ye harp much vpon our faults. 
The Defenders never stint to charge the catholics with their faults of life.  We confess we are not faultless, for we are men. What mean ye to object them unto us so oftentimes? Are ye angels yourselves? Or lacking just cause to charge us with any error in doctrine, think ye good to tell men, we haue faults in life, lest ye should be driven to say nothing, which is as grievous unto you, as to say truth? What need ye to show your malice so much at bishops and abbots? Which of them hurteth you? Haue ye not in prison or in custody at your appointment all the bishops of England, one Apostata yet living excepted, which after sundry flightes and changing of coats, is fled from the tentes of the church to your scattered troops? The abbots, haue ye not driven them away? Be ye yet a frayed of their shadows? As by Aristotle a city can not consist of bastards, no more can the church of England consist of such bastard bishops as ye be: what number of abbots ye haue left in cloisters, such number of true bishops haue ye left in churches. One must I still except, who is a true bishop by consecration( as I understand) though a false man by apostasy and going from his faith, and from his religion.  

apology  But grant they be the church: let them be heard speak in councils: let them alone haue authority to give consent: yet in old time when the church of God( yf ye will compare it with their church) was very well governed, both elders and deacons as saith Cyprian, and certain also of the common people were called there unto, and made acquainted with ecclesiastical matters.  

Confutation. The Defenders would the common people to come to general councils.  Ah sirs would ye haue the common people come to the general council? Whom mean ye I pray you? Tinkers and tapsters, fydlers and pypers, such as your ministers be? Alas poor souls, what should they do there? For there is no tinking nor tippling, no fiddling nor pyping. There may they shut up both budgets and mouths. For neither can they speak in such an audience to be vnderstanded, nor can they understand, what is spoken. look in your books better, and you shall find Cyprian to make little for your purpose.  
Had your matter ben good, it might haue ben defended without lies. Being as it is altogether beside truth and reason, 
A notable lie forged vpon S. Cyprian.  for some colour of maintenance of the same, ye pass all measure in lying. Where saith S. Cyprian that certain of the common people were called to ecclesiastical councils? Yea specially where saith he, that the common people were made iudges of ecclesiastical matters, for so hath your latin, which not without guile your lady interpreter commonly turneth, were made acquainted with ecclesiastical matters? If you had meant true dealing Defender, you would haue quoted the place. but you knew thereby your falsehood should haue ben espied. The place which you mean, doubtless in the second to me of S. Cyprians works, where we find the sentences of the bishops of afric de haereticis baptizandis. Which proveth your strange saying by you fathered vpon that holy martyr nothing at al. The words be these. Cum in vnum Carthagini conuenissent, &c. 
The place of S. Cyprian which the Defender meaneth.  When many bishops in the first day of September were assembled together at Carthage out of the province of afric, Numidia, Mauritania, with their priestes and Deacons, the most part of the people also being present, after that the letters of Iubaianus written to Cyprian and of Cyprian to Iubaianus again had ben readen, concerning heretics to be baptized: and what after that the same Iubaianus wrote again to Cyprian:( all this done) Cyprian said. &c. These be the words in the acts of that provincial synod put before the sentences of the bishops.  
Now what can you gather out of them for your purpose more, but that a great number of the people were present only in the church or other place, where the bishops were assembled? That certain of the common people were called to this council, there is no such word mentioned nor by Cyprian, nor by any else. Neither were the priestes themselves( which this youthful gentilwoman interpreteth elders) and Deacons called thither, but they attended vpon the bishops, as in such case it hath ben accustomend, for sentence none might give in a council, but only bishops. Then how much less were the common people called to that council, specially to sit as iudges in ecclesiastical matters? Though the english interpretation nameth it acquaintance, yet the latin hath the term of judging, and therfore I slander you not. Of the presence of the people you can not make argument, that they were thereby made iudges. Who seeth not how boldly the people putteth themselves in press where so ever any such solemn assembly or meeting is? Yea almost who can keep them from coming in place where any public notable act is done? Because they will be present only to hear and gaze, shal we say, they be called thereto, and made iudges or chief doers? Shall we say, that the people which is commonly sene in Westminster hall at a term, be iudges of matters pleaded there, because they be present? At the first convocation in queen Maries time, when certain catholics and your brethren reasoned together about points of religion, the people in great number at Paules were present. Likewise at the disputation holden at Oxford between certain catholic doctors and Cranmare, Latimer, and Ridley, no small number of the people both of the town and the country there about were also present. So was it in the first year of the queens majesties reign, when disputation was gone about to be kept at Westminster. If this be chronicled, as I think it shalbe, shall the posterity hereof argue, that the common people were called to be iudges in synods, in conuocations, in public disputations of matters pertaining to religion? Of such causes their only presence maketh them iudges no more, then it maketh them bishops. Mary that you would so haue it, I think well. For such confusion might best serve you to procure the overthrow of good order, in which the church is governed. which if it be maintained duly, your disordered and rebellious state will sone be confounded.  
As for lay men, truth it is, in due order, they are admitted to councils. And all catholic princes had their ambassadors in this late council at Trent. That our sovereign lady queen Elizabeth sent not thither, as other Christen princes did, being thereto of her own good devotion well inclined: by whom, and for what intent it was letted, it is not very obscure. God preserve her highnes, assist her with godly counsel, and sand good end of all.  

apology  But I put case these abbots and bishops haue no knowledge: what yf they understand nothing what Religion is, nor how we ought to think of God? I put case the ponouncyng and ministering of the lawe be decayed in priests, and good counsel fail in the Elders, and as the prophet Micheas saith, the night be unto them in stede of a vision, and darkness in stead of prophesieng. Or as Esaias saith, what yf all the watchmen of the city are become blind? What yf the salt haue lost his proper strength and sauerines, and as christ saith, be good for no use, scant worth the casting on the doungehyl?  
When just and lawful proofs fail you sir Defender, 
Confutation.  then come you in with your vain putcase, and what if.  
But we answer. If all were fools, 
answer to the Defenders put cases and what iffes.  then was there never a wise. If all were nought, then was there never a good. If all were blind, then was there none that saw light. If all salt lost his proper strength, then was there nothing savoury. But if some abbots, many doctors, most bishops in that council were very wise and learned, good and virtuous, lightened in their hartes with the abundant light of the holy ghost, well ceasoned with the salt of Gods wisdom: then is your putcase put clean away, then are your whatiffes but slanderous surmises, and signs of a malicious heart; that conceiveth nought, and worse would the pen to report, if it wist what. The world knoweth so well,( yea heaven also) the great worthiness of those fathers in every respect, that I should do them wrong here to praise them, for that by your fond surmises you seek their dispraise. But hereof more shall be said anonne.  
well yet then, they will bring al matters before the Pope, 
apology.  who cannot err. To this I say, first it is a madness to think that the holy ghost taketh his flight from a general council to run to Rome, to thende yf he doubt or stick in any matter, and cannot expound it of himself, he may take counsel of some other spirit, I wote not what, that is better learned then himself. For if this be true, what needed so many Byshopps, with so great charges and so far journeys, haue assembled their convocation at this present at Trident? Yt had ben more wisdom and better, at least it had ben a much nearer way and handsommer to haue brought all things rather before the Pope, and to haue come streght forth, and haue asked counsel at his divine breast. Secondly, it is also an unlawful dealing to toss our matter from so many Byshoppes and abbots, and to bring it at last to the trial of one onely man, specially of him who himself is appeached by us of heinous and foul enormities, and hath not yet put in his answer: who hath also afore hand condemned us without iudgement by order pronounced, and or ever we were called to be judged.   

THE fourth CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  We may less wonder at your jesting in other things, sith now we see you scoff and iest in things touching God himself. sir set you so light by the holy ghost, as thus vnreuerently to talk of his flight and running to Rome, of his doubting and sticking, 
The Defenders vnreuerent and profane talk of the holy ghost.  of his vnablenes to declare doubtful cases, of asking counsel of an other spirit? Who ever uttered such vile talk of the holy ghost, but some vile caitiff quite void of his grace? Can not you conceive that reasonably the determinations of councils be referred to the Pope Christes vicar in earth, unless ye utter such vnreuerent and profane scoffs? It had become a wicked Celsus, a Porphyrius, a julian, thus to talk rather then any christian hickescorner. You should at lest haue looked on your square cap and your white rochet, if you haue any: if nothing else, they would haue told you, that such profane lightness became not your person. And though the holy ghost be not among the fathers of a general council, which is not to be granted, if they come together in the name of Christ: shall we not suppose the Pope may haue him, unless we imagine that he take his flight from the council and run to Rome? Will you appoint the holy ghost but one place to remain in? May he not be at the council, and in the popes heart at one time? If you grant he may, speak no more like a scoffer of his flying and running, doubting and taking counsel of an other spirit. If you reverence not man, yet fear God.  
Concerning the point itself you touch, although the Pope haue that privilege, 
luke. 22.  which Christ prayed to his father for to be given unto Peter, as being Peters successor, that his faith fail not, and that he confirm his brethren, and therefore be an assured judge in matters of faith: yet this notwithstanding councils be not assembled together in vain. 
councils be not assembled in vain.  For first, the Pope ought not to define and determine controversies about faith rashly and lightly, but wisely and with mature deliberation, calling together learned and expert counsellors mo or fewer according to the weight of the matter that is in question. For the fathers of the council do help the faith and doctrine of the highest pastor. Wherefore in the first council at jerusalem, when as a great question rose, 
Act. 15.  and Peter had said his iudgement not propped with any testimony of the holy scriptures, james approved it adding thereto the testimonies of the Phrophetes. For Gods providence so tendereth the church, that the chief members, though they depend of the head, yet defend and help the head.  
again, the council maketh the people better willing to receive the faith, by reason of the most acceptable witnesses and judgements of a great meany. For we see the laws demanded, made, and enacted by aduise of the nobility and chief states of a common weal, to be better accepted of the people, then if they were set forth by proclamation of the Prince only. Wherefore Beda admonisheth discretely, 
Lib. retra. in act. apostolorum.  that Paul conferred the gospel which he had preached amongst the gentiles, with the other Apostles, seeking warily to be resolved, whether he preached rightly of the ceasing of the observances of the lawe. Not that he doubted ought thereof himself( saith he) but that the mindes of them that were in doubt, might be confirmed by thauctoritie of that apostolic council.  
To that you allege secondly as a great inconvenience, we tell you, that forasmuch as the Pope is at every general council lawfully assembled either in person, as sundry Popes haue ben, or by his legates: neither it is an unlawful dealing, 
Matters debated in councils be reasonably referred to the Pope for final confirmation.  nor such tossing as you term it, matters maturely debated in the council, to be referred to the Pope head of the council, not so much for a new trial, as for final confirmation. The fathers of the Nicene council besought S. sylvester, that what they had ordained, he would confirm and ratify. And lo what things the council of Chalcedon had decreed touching matters of faith, saith, that he approveth them. And the council itself speaking to lo saith thus. Decretis tuis nostrum honora judicium. With thy decrees honour our iudgement. Likewise the fathers of other councils, required their constitutions to be strengthened by confirmation of the Popes authority.  
This authority over councils, which ye grant to Princes over the acts of their parliaments, ye will not in any wise the Pope should enjoy, because he is appeached by you of heinous and foul enormities, and hath not yet forsooth put in his answer. As for the Popes enormities, what they be, I know not, neither yourself I believe, nor any of your companions. Where at ye rail, I remember, but what ye prove against him, yet I see not. And sir find you fault with the Pope, 
Where should the Pope put in his answer being railed at of these Defenders?  because he hath not yet put in his answer? I pray you, who accused him? Where, when, and whereof? In what lawful court? Before what lawful judge O you say, he hath not yet put in his answer. Be it that Hicke, Hob, and Hans of your sects haue impudently accused him. How would ye haue him bring in his answer? To what seat of iudgement, to what consistory can ye city him, that is by Christ appointed to be the supreme judge of all his church, the shepherd of all his flock? It is not for him, you know, to bring in his answer in Westminster haull, nor in star chamber. Will ye haue him appear before your high commissioners in the long chapel at Powles, or in M. Grindalles chamber thereby, where ye haue said and done your pleasure, and deprived many honest men of their benefice? Or will ye rather haue him come to Geneua, to Zurich, to Frankford, to Strasburg, to Wittenberg, or to some other corner, where ye haue your congregations, there to be judged by jack and Gylle? I pity you poor souls, that ye talk thus so far out of square, and would the Pope to bring in his answer, ye know not where, having neither just court or consistory to call him unto, nor lawful judge, nor lawe to pass vpon him. For through your schisms and heresies, as ye haue made yourselves churcheles, Christles, and godless: so also courtles, iudgeles, and souls. I can not compare you better then to the rebelles of Northsolke under captain Kete, 
captain Kete.  amongst whom mount Surrey was their London, and an oak or an elm commonly called the three of reformation, was their Westminster haull. Such Prince, such dominion, such judge, such consistory.  
Ye complain the Pope hath condemned you without iudgement by order pronounced, and before ye were ever called to be judged. This is as true, as that the murderer or these answereth the judge at the bar, saying, not guilty my lord. 
Sundry lawful means haue ben attempted for amendment of the gospelers, but all in vain.  Ye haue ben sundry times called to lawful consistories, to synods, to councils. always either ye made not your appearance, or by right of safe conduct conveyed yourselves away, without any show of obedience, or vpon promise of a mendement, you were dismissed. How many legates and Nuncios haue sundry Popes sent into germany and other provinces, to convent you, to hear you, to move you to a better mind, and call you home, and with all merciful means to gather you again into the lap of the church? He may say to your condemnation, that was said of the Iewes: 
Esai. 5.  what is that I ought to haue done to my betide, which I haue not done? But all was in vain, such hath ben your stubbournes. In this case what should the Pope do, but( which the scripture requireth) excommunicate you, and pronounce the terrible curse of anathema against you, that the corrupt and rotten members being cut away, the rest of the body be kept whole from the contagion? And yet he hath mercifully spared you hitherto, looking for your amendment.  

apology  How say ye, do wee devise these tales? Is not this the course of the councils in these dayes? Are not all things removed from the whole holy council and brought before the Pope alone? That as though nothing had ben don to purpose by the judgements and consentes of such a number, he alone may add alter, diminish, disannul, allow, remytt and qualify what soever he list? Whose words be these then? And why haue the Byshoppes and abbots in the last council at Trident but of late concluded with saying thus in thende, saving always the authority of the sea-Apostolique in all things? 
De election.& Electi pote. cap. Signifisti.  Or why doth Pope paschal writ so proudelie of himself as though saith he, there were any general council able to prescribe a law to the Church of Rome, whereas al councils both haue ben made and haue received their force and strength by the Church of Romes authority? And in ordinances made by councils, is ever plainly excepted the authority of the bishop of Rome. Yf they will haue these things allowed for good, why be councils called? But if they command them to be voided, why are they left in their books as things alowable?  

Confutation.  This hath ben answered now already. Your common repetitions of that you haue said before, be very tedious and idle. Time is lost in reading of them. And sir, what need you bestow so much talk in vain? Is it not reason the members aclowledge the head? Would you the members to work their actions without the head? Is Pope Paschalis to be called proud for preferring the church of Rome before a council? Haue not councils ever ben thought to lack their full authority, which were not called and confirmed by the bishop of Rome? Now why may not both this due order be allowed for good, and councils also for weighty causes be called? Neither is it necessary al writings be voided, which the Pope hath not allowed. They may remain in books without harm, if containing no evil doctrine they be not expressly forbidden. Neither is al commanded by the Pope to be voided, that is not expressly confirmed.  
But be it so, 
apology  Let the bishop of Rome alone be above all councils, that is to say, let some one parte be greater then the whole, let him be of greater power, let him be of more wisdom then all his, and in spite of Hieromes head, 
Hieron. ad Euagriuum.  let the authority of one city be greater then the authority of the whole world.   

THE FIFTH CHAPTER.  
It is a common manner of this Defender, 
Confutation.  what he must needs grant, to make a show in words, as though it were free gift. So many times beggars will seem gentlemen, and paiers of debt will seem givers. Let the bishop of Rome,( saith he) alone be above all councils. sir he is so, no thank to you. Yet speak you like a liberal gentleman. that is to say, let some one parte be greater then the whole. No sir maugre your scoffing head, part shall not be greater then the whole, but part shall be greater then part. 
Part greater then part.  In a right sense is not the head greater then the body, the bishop then his clergy, the master of a house more then his family? Neither is the council the whole pardy, except your merry wit can devise us a whole body without a head. Let him be of greater power, say you. And so he is. Let him be of more wisdom then all his. We say not so. It may be that his council hath more learning, more knowledge and more wisdom, 
The wisdom of the See Apostlike.  thē his only person. Albeit when we speak of that wisdom of the See apostolic, which is sure, infallible, and can not err: we mean not only the Popes singular person, but the head pastor and bishop, as he doth those things which pertain to that chair: that is to say, in as much as he proceedeth not vpon his own private iudgement, but by the instinct of the holy ghost promised by Christ to his vicar. Where you say, and in spite of Hieromes head, Let the authority of one city, be greater then the authority of the whole world: we tell you that this you speak more spitefully, then learnedly. For S. jerome in his epistle to evagrius speaketh only of a particular matter, blaming the custom of Rome, where contrary to the custom of the whole world, deacons in certain cases were preferred before priestes, wherefo we haue spoken before.  

apology  Howe then if the Pope haue sene none of these things, and haue never red either the scrpitures, or the old Fathers, or yet his own councils? How if he favour the Arians, as once Pope Liberius did? Or haue a wicked and a detestable opinion of the life to come, and of the immortality of the soul, as Pope John had but few yeres since? Or to increase now his own dignity, do corrupt other councils, as Pope Zosimus corrupted the council holden at Nice in times past, and do say that those things were devised and appointed by the holy Fathers, which never once came into their thought, and to haue the full sway of authority, do wrest the Scriptures, as Camotensis saith, is an usual custom with the Popes? How yf he haue renounced the faith in Christ, and become an Apostata, as Liranus saith many Popes haue been? And yet for all this shall the holy ghost with turning of a hand, knock at his breast, and even whether he will or no, yea and wholly against his will, kindle him a light so as he may not err? Shal he streght way be the head spring of all right, and shall all treasure of wisdom and understanding be found in him, as it were laid up in store? Or yf these things be not in him, can he give a right and apt iudgement of so weighty matters? Or if he be not able to judge, would he haue that those matters should be borough before him alone?  

Confutation.  To your how ifs and what ifs I could sone make an answer by the contrary. 
It is a token good reasons fail where how if and what if is so often demanded.  And sir how if the Pope haue sene all these things, the scriptures, fathers, and councils? What haue you then to say? Is not your tale then at an end? Were your matter good and yourself wise, you would not so commonly use that weak kind of reasoning. But to a number of your howifs and whatifs, for the readers sake, to put away all scruple, I give you this answer.  
Gods wisdom( as the scripture saith) disposeth all things sweetly, and in one instant forseeth the end, 
Sapient. 8.  and means that be necessary to the end. If he promise any man life everlasting, withall he giveth him grace also to do good deeds, whereby to obtain the same. 
Rom. 8.  Whom he hath glorified( saith S. Paul) them he hath justified and called. 
Mat. 16. luke. 22.  So whereas he hath by force of his prayer made to the father, promised to Peter, and for the safety of the church, to every Peters successor, that his faith shall not fail, and therefore hath willed him to confirm his brethren, that is, to remove all doubts and errors from them: we are assured, he will give him such wit, diligence, learning, and understanding, as this firmness and infallibility of faith and confirming of brethren requireth. Shall we stand in doubt whether that happeneth in things supernatural, which we see to be in things natural, that who giveth the end he giveth also things that pertain to the attaining of the end? If God would promise us abundance of corn for the next year to come, what were more foolish, then to doubt, and say like to this Defender, how if and what if men will not till the ground, nor sow any seed? doubtless if they sow, they shal reap, if they sow not, neither shall they reap. But what?  
We may gather of the promise of God, that we shall haue not only fair and ceasonable wether, whereby the fruits of the earth may prove plentiful, but also that the busbandmen shall employ their endeavour, pains, and labour. For the abundance of corn so promised shall not be given but to such, as till, sow, and travail. even so whereas Christ hath promised to the successors of Peter, firmness of faith, to the Apostles and their successors the spirit of truth, and likewise to councils gathered in his name: we must persuade ourselves that nothing shall want necessary for the controversies touching faith to be decided.  

Pope Liberius favoured not the Arians.  That you say of Liberius the Pope, is stark false. He never favoured the Arians. The most ye can find against him, is that he was compelled by the great persecution of Constantius the Emperour, to subscribe to the Arians. Neither is that by the ancient writers of the ecclesiastical stories constantly affirmed, but of the chief of them not spoken of, where most occasion was to signify it, if it had so ben, 
Sozom. lib. 4. cap. 15. Lib. de viris illustrib. in chronicis  of some denied, of some mentioned not as true, but as a false rumour bruited abroad of him. By which rumour it seemeth S. jerome was deceived remaining in the East far from the places where the truth might more certainly be known. But were it true that he subscribed as Peter denied Christ, yet being done for lack of charity and not by error in faith, well might that fact be slaunderours to the church, but it was not a decree made in favour of the Arians, neither to confirm that heresy.  

Pope John cleared of a slander. Pope John the 22. held no evil opinion touching thimmortalitie of the soul.  That you report of Pope John the 22. is likewise most false. The worst that Marsilius of Padua and William Ockam heretics wrote of him to flatter the Emperour Ludouicus of Bauaria, is, that he had taught openly( which also is referred to the time before he was Pope) that the souls of the just see not God until the day of iudgement. That he had a wicked and a detestable opinion of the immortality of the soul, there was no such his opinion, but it is your false slander, by which your wicked and detestable malice imagined to deface the church, and specially the authority of the holy See apostolic. No story of any estimation mentioneth that he was of that first opinion, after he came to be Pope, much less that he gave any definitive sentence of such matter. But contrariwise, when as he prepared himself to go to the definition of that question, concerning the seeing of God which just souls haue before the day of iudgement, as Benedictus theleuenth in sua extrauagante saith, he was prevented by death, so as he might not do it.  
You belie Zosimus, 
Zosimus corrupted not the council of Nice.  he corrupted not the council of Nice. But signified to the bishops of afric assembled in council at Carthage the truth concerning the canons of the Nicene council. The same may be proved by Iulius the first, by the epistle of Athanasius and other bishops of Egypt, Thebais, and Libya, written to Marcus the Pope of the original of the 72. canons of the Nicene council, that remained in safe custody in the church of Rome, subscribed with the hands of the fathers that at the same council were present. And what credite was to be given to the contrary information of only twenty canons, that was returned from the bishops of Constantinople and Alexandria, when heretics before had burned the books where the whole number was contained, and left but those twenty, that all books now commonly haue?  
If we should allege Camotensis 
Camotensis.  and Lyre, you would call them the black guard, and set little by them. 
In his reply to d. coal. fo. 70. b.  First show us where they haue that you allege out of them. M. Iuell allegeth that of Camotensis in an other place. But where it is, he keepeth it to himself, and of himself it is likely it proceeded. For his dealing is such, as any false practise in respect of him may seem credible. Albeit what worshipful doctor ye mean by Camotensis I know not. peradventure you mean Carnotensis, otherwise called ivo. I haue cause to guess that so it should be. And yet four books of sundry prints both English and latin so haue. If there be any such, as I suppose there is not, he is very obscure, nor worth the naming.  
Your profane talk of the holy ghost, and other scoffs that follow, in this paragraph be not worthy to be answered further then I haue answered before.  

apology  What will ye say, yf the Popes advocates, abbots and bishops dissemble not the matter, but show themselves open enemies to the gospel, and though they see, yet they will not see, but wry the Scriptures and wyttingly and knowingly corrupt and counterfeit the word of God, and foully and wickedlye apply to the Pope all the same things which evidently and properly be spoken of the person of Christ only, nor by no means can be applied to any other? 
Host. cap. Quanto. abbess Pano. de Ele. ca. Venerabilis. Cornelius Episcopus in council. Tridentino.  And what though they say, the Pope is all and above all? Or, that he can do as much as Christ can: and that one iudgement place and one council house serve for the Pope and for Christ both together? Or that the Pope is the same light which should come into the world? Which words Christ spake of himself alone: and that who so is an evil doer, hateth and flieth from that light? Or that all the other bishops haue received of the Popes fullness?   

THE SIXTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  You haue never done with your what ifs. Your interpreter good gentilwoman that favoureth your pleasant divinity so much, seemeth to be weary of it herself. For here she turneth your Quid si, into what will ye say, if. And now sir do you demand of us, as madam Interpreter maketh you to speak, what we will say? Forsooth for this you allege against the Popes advocates, abbots, and Bishops, we say, that the most parte is very false and slanderous, some what may be taken for truth in a right sense. As for the advocates, I mind not to be their advocate, neither haue they need of my help. Let them answer one for an other. Hostiensis for Abbot Panormitan, and he for Hostiensis. 
Ho●tiensis. Pauormitanus.  In good soothe were those excellent men at this day living, I think verily, they would not do you that honour, as to answer you themselves. Or if they would vouch save to do so much, I doubt not but they would make short work with you, and take you up roundly for halting, with one word mentiris, dasshing all your allegations. Which word in your divinity is a verb commune.  
Thus leaving Hostiensis and Panormitan to defence of the canonists, telling you by the way that in questions of divinity we stand not always to their sayings: 
Cornelius episcopus Bitontinus.  we answer you on the behalf of Cornelius the bishop of Bitonto in italy,( for him ye mean I suppose putting in your margin the name of Cornelius only) that he never said, the Pope is the light which should come into the world, in that sense as it is spoken of Christ. If you were hardly charged to show, where he said it, or where he wrote it, you would be found a liar, as in many other points you are found already. That he never wrote it in any of his eloquent Italian sermons set forth in print, I am assured. And more hath he not set forth. Now it remaineth that you tell us where he saith so, or else confess your flaunderous lie.  
Shortly, 
apology  what though they make decrees expressly against Gods word, and that not in hucker mucker or covertly, but openly and in the face of the world: must it needs yet be gospel strait what so ever these men say? Shall these be Gods holy army? Or will christ be at hand among them there? Shall the holy ghost flow in their tongues, or can they with truth say, we and the holy ghost haue thought so?  
After a great meanye of your foolish and false whatifs, 
Confutation.  you conclude shortly, with what if, they make decrees expressly against Gods word, and that openly in the face of the world?  
Hereto we answer, requitting your whatif, with an other whatif, and say. What if the learned and holy fathers of Christendom be assembled together in a general council lawfully in the name of Christ, and celebrate the same lawfully? By that I say in the name of Christ, I mean all that is behofull in that case. Shall we not think then, Christ being in the midst of them according to his promise, 
Mat. 18.  that they make good and holesom decrees? Shal not we deme of them, that God ruleth their hartes, that the holy ghost assisteth their utterance, that they may truly use the style of the Apostles at their first council, 
A●t. 15.  it hath thus seemed good to the holy ghost and to us?  

apology  In dede Peter Asotus and his companion Hosius stick not to affirm, 
Hosius contra Brentiton, Lib. 2.  that the same council wherein our saviour Iesu christ was condemned to die, had both the spirit of prophesieng, and the holy Ghost, and the spirit of truth in it: and that it was neither a false nor a trifflinge saying, when those Byshoppes said, We haue a lawe, and by our law he ought to die, and that they so saying did light vpon the very trouth of iudgement: for so be Hosius words, and that the same plainly was a just decree, whereby they pronounced that Christ was worthy to die. This me thinketh is strange, that these men are not able to speak for themselves and defend their own cause, but they must also take parte with Annas and Caiphas. For if they will call that a lawful and a good council wherein the son of God was most shamefully condemned to die, what council will they then allow for false and nought? And( yet as all their councils, to say truth, commonly be) necessity compelled them to pronounce these things of the council holden by Annas and Caiphas.  

Confutation. Lady A. B. nicknameth Peter a Soto.  Yea madam, what spirit taught you so to nickename that reverent, sober, holy, and learned father? You knew his name to be Peter a Soto, and so found you in the latin. But because you heard say that asotus is a greek word, by which a lewd intemperatlyuer is signified, you had rather play the false interpreter with some note of malice, then using plain truth to let him pass without a cast of your office. As by this lightness you haue hurt that worthy mans estimation nothing, so haue you impaired your own very much. Such unhonest toys better become Brentius that shameless railing heretic, who so commonly calleth him, then your ladyship, whom nothing commendeth more then truth, and honesty, and womanly shamefastness. For who taketh those virtues from you, shall leave you little worth, for all your pretty greek, latin, or English. This much I say to your ladyship gently, trusting you will use yourself more honestly in your next book: If your stomach will serve you to writ again as well as to speak often which scant I believe. If this be the fault of the author himself, by whom your translation hath ben corrected and allowed, beshrew his fingers for so writing, and blame your own shrewd head for willing it so to pass abroad in your name A. B. if those two letters report your name. And now to you sir defender.  
You belie Hosius, as Brentius, 
Peter a Soto belied by the Defender.  of whom you borrowed this, belied the reverent father Peter a Soto. Either you haue readen the place of Hosius, or you haue not. If you haue not, then are you to blame to say so much evil, that you know not. If you haue readen the place, then is your fault plain malice in putting that to Hosius, the contrary whereof you find in the place by yourself alleged, by which you lead us as it were by the hand to behold and consider your own dishonesty. choose of these two faults, with which you had rather to be burdened. For the one hangeth on you, and you shall never honestly shake it of. How just cause you haue to reprehend Hosius, for that he wrote against Brentius in defence of Petrus a Soto touching the council in which Christ was condemned by Caiphas, it should best appear to him, that would red the whole place, where Hosius treateth that matter. The same would I here haue rehearsed to the discovering of your false dealing and shameless lying, were not the same very long, and this book now riseth to a greater quantity, thē my purpose was at the beginning it should. Wherefore referring the learned reader to the place in the second book against Brentius, these few I say here in defence both of Peter a Soto, and specially of Hosius. 
Hosius defended against the slander of the defender.   
First, this is the truth touching the whole. The acts of those priestes of the Iewes synagogue were wicked and contrary to Christ. But their sentence, though themselves were never so evil, was not only true, but also to mankind most profitable. And S. John in his gospel witnesseth, it was the oracle of God. For when after long deliberation of the council, Caiphas the high bishop and president of that council, had pronounced his sentence, whereunto all the rest almost gave their consent, it is expedient for us that one man die for the people, 
joan. 19.  and not that all the nation perish: the evangelist thereto added his verdict saying, this he said not of himself, but whereas he was high bishop of that year, he prophesied. Therefore let this be the true conclusion of the whole matter. The acts of that council were wicked, the sentence was true and good. Now Hosius treateth this matter so learnedly and so substantially, as you can not truly take any advantage of his words to reprehend him. He stayeth himself vpon the scripture, a good ground to stand vpon. Which scripture referreth doubtful and hard questions to the priestes of the Leuiticall order. Of whom it is said, Indicabunt tibi judicij veritatem. 
Deu. 17.  They shall show unto thee the truth of iudgement. In this iudgement saith Hosius, though it were never so wicked, yet was the truth of iudgement. How that might be, there he proveth it to Brentius by most manifest arguments. And concludeth that forasmuch as by testimony of the gospel, Caiphas, for that he was the hgih bishop of that year, prophesied: that the Leuiticall priesthood lacked not the spirit of prophecy, the holy ghost, the spirit of truth, until the time in which Christ offered himself a bloody sacrifice to God the father, and so gave end unto that priesthood and sacrifice. Their saying, We haue a lawe, and according to this lawe he ought to die, was a true word, as Hosius declareth. For in dede it was the lawe of God the father, which the son by his own accord took vpon him, and submitted himself thereto, to die for our sins. Which lawe by the decree of the wicked bishops was fulfilled, when Christ was crucified, which Christ himself signified, by that he spake at the giving up of his ghost on the cross, Consummatum est, 
joan. 19.  it is ended.  
Where ye impute to Hosius to haue said, that the same plainly was a just decree, whereby they pronounced that Christ was worthy to die, that is your slanderous lie, not Hosius saying. For he saith the clean contrary, and that sundry times, that it was a wicked council, and most vniuste decree. God forbid any christen man should say, that Christ was worthy to die. He saith, it might haue ben truly pronounced by Caiphas, that he was guilty of death. And there he sheweth how, very religiously and wisely admonishing the reader, that he was most innocent, and deserved not to die. And thus sir you may see, we take not part with Annas and Caiphas as you rail, and yet be able God be thanked, to defend our true cause, and declare you to the world to be false teachers. Therefore belie us no more. We call not that a lawful and a good council, but contrariwise most wrongful and wicked. If you continue in lying, think that it will be returned over vpon you to your own shane. verily such dealing maketh argument of the weakness of your part, and of your wicked impudency. If your books be thus suffered to go abroad, and yourselves to preach, what marvell is it, if the people be deceived? Our lord look mercifully vpon them, and deliver them from such deceivers, who put their hope and trust altogether in lying.  

apology.  But will these men( I say) reform us the church, being themselves both the persons guilty and the Iudges to? Will they abate their own ambition and pride? Will they overthrow their own matter, and give sentence against themselves, that they must leave of to be unlearned Byshoppes, slowbellies, heapers together of benefice, takers vpon them as princes and men of war? Will the abbots the Popes deere darlinges judge that monk for a thief, which laboureth not for his living? and that it is against all lawe, to suffer such a one to live and to be found either in city or in country, or yet of other mennes charges? Or else that a monk ought to lie on the ground, to live hardly with herbs and peason, to study earnestly, to argue, to pray, to work with hand, and fully to bend himself to come to the ministry of the church? In faith, as soon will the pharisees and Scribes repair again the Temple of God, and restore it unto us a house of prayer, in steede of a thievish den.   

THE SEVENTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  Ye leap with a light skip from one thing to an other, neither dwell ye long in any one point, but in lying. even now ye made offer to show, that lawyers, abbots, and bishops be open enemies to the gospel, that they wry the scriptures, that they corrupt and counterfeit the word of God, which accusation toucheth doctrine, and in dede proved never a whit. Here ye come to manners, and ask whether these men whom ye spake of before, 
The Defenders skip from doctrine to manners  will reform the church, being themselves both the guilty and also the iudges. Whereto we answer. They will do the best of their endeavour, remembering whom they serve, and with what diligence such service ought to be done, calling to mind the saying of the prophet ieremy, 
Ierem. 48.  accursed is he that doth the work of our Lord guilefully. Which now( praised be God for it) is done. For the Tridentine council that was lawfully called together, and lawfully celebrated, is also lawfully confirmed by Peters successor, who was commanded to confirm his brethren. What issue will follow of it, 
mat. 16.  our Lord knoweth. The Bishops haue done their duty. We hope the best. If not so good, as was intended, the lest part of the blame shall not be yours, Who with example of evil life, with false doctrine, and with sundry great disorders and enormities, in these dayes hinder all virtuous preachings.  
But ye say, they be both the persons guilty and the iudges also. Iudges doubtless they be. For their vocation is lawful, ye can not disprove it. guilty also they be, we deny not, but whereof? Of frail living, not of false teaching.  
And where? In the court of conscience, not in the court of man. Or if any of them be, both before this council, and in this council godly orders haue ben decreed for wholesome reformation.  
Concerning the other faults which ye object odiously unto the fathers of the council, and in general to all spiritual gouernours of the catholic church, we promise nothing. for all dependeth of Gods grace moving the free will of man. 
By what means may the Defenders be brought to judge better of the catholics.  But if ye for your part will be so willing to amend your own vices, as ye be more then bold to charge us both with some faults truly, and with very many untruly: we doubt not but yourselves shall confess and aclowledge our amendment. If ye dispose your hartes through grace to obedience and humbleness, ye shall less find fault with our ambition and pride. If ye study( as becometh good Christen men) to be learned in those holy letters which frame in a man the spirit of meekness, and not so much to attain that knowledge, which as S. Paul saieth, 
1. Cor. 8.  puffeth up a man and maketh him high in his own conceit: ye shall find no small number of such men in our clergy, as yourselves will be ashamed to call vnlerned bishops, slowbellies, heapers together of benefice, &c.  

Of Monckes in this age.  As for Monckes, ye may not look now, that either they gete their living only by their hand labour, or that they be bound to the hard discipline which Monckes lived in for twelve hundred yeres past. Now be other dayes, other manners. Such great austerity is to be woundred at, and to be wished for. But whether the religious men of our time be to be compelled thereto, 
A discretion to be had concerning the religious, in general name Monckes.  I leave it to wise consideration. If it may be lawful do direct us in such spiritual cases by an old example of extern prudency, me thinketh the discretion of Iacobs answer to his brother Esau is worth to be thought on. When Esau courteously offered his brother jacob returning from Mesopotamia with all his train of household and catell, to go with him, and keep him company the rest of the journey that remained from the place of their first meeting: 
Gen. 33.  jacob full myldely said, sir you know if it like your lordship, that I haue here with me tender babes, ewes with lamb, and kyne with calf. If I ouerlabour them with fast going, my flocks will die all in a day. may it please your lordship to go before me your servant, I will follow after the flock fair and soft, so as I shall see my little ones able to bear it.  
Likewise if there be not a discrete moderation used, but al Monckes be rigorously driven to the austerity of life they lived in of old time, in this so great looseness of manners, specially the discipline of all religions being so far staked in comparison of the ancient severity: it is to be feared, we shall rather see cloistres forsaken, then a Godly reformation procured. But how doth this become you sirs to finde fault with Monckes not labouring for their living, seing yourselves without all labour enjoy the livings of other men by unjust intrusion? What mean ye to require Monckes to lie on the ground, yourselves lying so soft in your delicate fetherbeds with your nice queens so many of you as haue received holy orders, or made vow of chastity, with your wives peradventure ye that be lay ministers? With what faces can ye show yourselves to be discontented with Monckes, that live not hardly with herbs and peason, which both live like Epicures yourselves, and with your pleasant gospel invite men to all liberty and pleasure of the belly? How would ye drive Monckes to study, to argue, to pray, to watch, to work with hand: which content yourselves with little learning, esteem in your ministers the reading of English more then logic, philosophy, knowledge of tongues and good artes, which pray not, ne watch not but in chamberinges, which follow all fleshly pleasures?  
In the end of this Paragraph, ye show yourself to despair of our amendment. God give you grace so to do for your partes, as we may haue good cause to hope better of you. But whether we amend our faults, or otherwise, what pertaineth that to the justification of your new gospel, and to the disproufe of the catholic faith by us defended? You know it is no good argument à moribus ad doctrinam. 
Thargument made à moribus ad doctrinam, is nought.  Who would not hiss you and tramp you out of schools, if ye made this fonde reason, the papists lives be faulty, ergo their teaching is false? To this head all the reasons of your apology in effect may be reduced, and they hold per locum topicum novi Junii à malis morihus. Doth not Christ himself confute all such your feeble reasons, where he saith, The scribes and pharisees, sit in the chair of Moses, 
mat. 23.  what so ever they say to you, do ye, but after their works do ye not?  

apology  Ther haue ben, I know, certain of their own selves which haue found fault, with many errors in the church, as Pope Adriā, Eneas silvius, cardinal pool, Pighius and others, as is afore said, they held afterwards their council at Trident in the self same place where it is now appointed. There assembled many Byshoppes and abbots and others whom it behoved. For that matter they were alone by themselves, whatsoever they did no body gain said it: for they had quiter shut out and barred our side from all manner of assemblies, and there they sat six yeares feedinge folkes with a marvelous expectation of doings. The first six month, as though it were greatly needful, they made many determinations of the holy trinity, of the Father, of the Son, and the holy Ghost, which were godly things in deed, but not so necessary for that time. Let us see in all that while of so many, so manifest, so often confessed by them and so evident errors, what one error haue they amended? from what kind of idolatry haue they reclaimed the people? What superstition haue they taken away? What piece of their tyranny and pomp haue they diminished? As though al the world may not now see, that this is a conspiracy and not a council, and that these Byshoppes whom the Pope hath now called together, be wholly sworn and become bound to bear him their faithful allegiance and will do no manner of thing, but that they perceive pleaseth him, and helpeth to advance his power, and as he will haue it: Or that they reckon not of the number of mennes voices, rather then haue weight and consideration of the same: Or that might doth not often times overcome the right.  

Confutation.  Here ye skip again from our manners to errors. And because ye can justly burden us with none touching our faith, ye refer us to Pope Adrian, to Pope pus the second first called Eneas silvius, cardinal pool, Pighius, and others. God be thanked that ye haue said the worst of our doctrine ye can say. And that ye haue brought together as into one heap, all that ye could gather out of your fellow gospelers books against the catholic faith. For hereby it appeareth how sound and hole it is. To al that ye objected to us out of these or any others, we haue fully answered you before. Neither was there cause why you should rehearse thē again, which you haue already prosecuted to the uttermost of your poor eloquence, but to fill up more paper and make some show of a six penny book.  
As you procede, you talk your pleasure of the godly and learned fathers assembled in the late council of Trent. By the way as your manner is, you drop lies. Of which one is is, that they had quiter shut out and barred your side from all manner of assemblies, which is a foul lie. That the first six months they occupied themselves with making many determidations of the holy trinity, that also is an other lie. For then the world had no need of any new determinations or decrees concerning the trinity, what it shall haue hereafter by occasion of your chief master John Caluines doctrine, it is more feared then yet perceived. As a long treaty of that doctrine was needles, so about the same they employed not much time. And if you or any of your sect vouchsafe to view the book of the council, you shal find no whit set forth thereof.  
Where ye would fain see of so many, so manifest, so often confessed by themselves, and so evident errors, what one error they haue amended: they are not like to satisfy your longing. And yet they haue taken order for the amendment of so many as they know. Neither is any of the same about any point of our faith, but about things of less weight. Your exaggeration of the terms so many, so manifest, so often confessed by them, and so evident, reporteth in one sentence your so many, so manifest, so often confuted by us, and so evident lies. For as I haue often times ben compelled by your vain repetitions to answer you, so here I say once again for all, ye shall never be able truly and justly to, charge the catholic church with errors in the faith.  
When you follow your hote humour, and ask, from what kind of idolatry the fathers of the Tridentine council haue reclaimed the people, 
No idolatry used nor acknowledged in the church.  you go to far. What so ever blasphemy ye utter in books and sermons against the adoration of the blessed sacrament of the altar, we know no kind of idolatry used in the church. Niether is any idolatry committed by us in worshipping of sainctes, in praying to them, nor in the reverence we exhibit to their images, as ye bear the people in hand. As I can not well take a hear from your lying beard, so wish I, that I could pluck malice from your blasphemous hart.  
Were it true, that some sely souls among the people using undiscrete devotion stombled at superstition, that some of the clergy were loth to diminish their tyranny and pomp, as you rail: is that council therefore a conspiracy, and not a lawful council? You haue put many cases in your apology, give me leave to put one. At the next parliament among other laws it shall be enacted by the consent of the lords spiritual and temporal and real assent of the prince, 
A case put to the Defender.  that all and singular spiritual persons shall wear square caps and side gowns, as hath ben accustomend, and so many as haue vowed chastity, shall leave the unlawful company of yoke miters, such as ye haue yoked yourselves unto. What though many of you shall refuse to obey this order? Shall not that nevertheless be a parliament? Right so is this a council, though al men that be faulty, amend not all faults.  

The evil life of the clergy is no cause why the gospelers should forsake the church.  But sir let us grant unto you many, things be amiss in the life of the clergy, and our Lord give us grace to amend them. Let not at Popes seem faultless. Be it so that some bishops do flatter him. What is this in respect of the odds that is between you and us? Is this a sufficient cause, why ye should break company, and cut yourselves from the church? Agree with us first in faith, and then let us join friendly and put our hands all together to thamendment of our lives. It is not our evil life, that shall excuse your evil faith. Our departing for a time from God by frailty and sin, shall not be the defence of your departing for ever, both from God and his church, by contempt and rebellion. Though all we be not as Sem and japhet were, yet ought not all ye play the part of Cham. What do ye else the soberest of you all, and specially you sir Defender, who so ever ye be that penned this apology, but delight to show abroad the shamely partes of your mother the church, where ye may espy any in some her frail members, as wicked Cham did? Yea be ye not worse then Cham forasmuch as he did so but once, and ye do it continually? If ye reverence not your brothers, and dishonour your mother, yet fear the curse of your father. Your father I mean God, who is father of all by creation, for through malice forsaking your mother, ye haue now made satan your father.  
And therefore we know that diuers times many good men and catholic bishops did tarry at home, 
apology  and would not come when such councils were called, wherein men so apparauntly laboured to serve factions and to take partes, because they knew they should but lose their travail and do no good, seeing where unto their enemies mindes were so July bent. Athanasius denied to come when he was called by the Emperour to his council at caesarea, perceiuinge plain he should butte come among his enemies which deadly hated him. The same Athanasius when he came afterward to the council at Sirmium, and foresaw what would be the end by reason of the outrage and malice of his enemies, he packed up his carriage, and went away immediately. 
Tripartita Hist. li. 10. cap. 13. Euseb. li. 1. cap. 17.  John Chrysostome, although the Emperour Constantius commanded him by four sundry lettres to come to the Atrians council, yet kept he himself at home still. When Maximus the bishop of jerusalem sate in the council at Palestine, the old Father Paphnutius took him by the hand and led him out at the doors saying: It is not leeful for us to confer of these matters with wicked men.  
The bishops of the east would not comme to the Syrmian council, after they knew Athanasius had gotten himself thence again. cyril called men back by letters from the council of them, which were name Patropassians. Paulinus bishop of trier, and many others more, refused to comme to the council at milan, win they understood what a stir and rule Auxentius kept there: for they saw yt was in vain to go thither, where not reason but faction should prevail, and where folk contended not for the truth and right iudgement of the matter, butte for partiality and favour  
And yet for all those fathers had such malicious and stiff necked enemies, yet if they had come, they should haue had free speech at least in the councils.  

Confutation.  First here I note the falsehood of the lady enterpreter, who turneth the latin speaking of Athanasius, Cum vocatus esset ab Imperatore ad concilium Caesariense, when he was called by the Emperour to his council at caesarea. Where by adding the word his, of her own, she or a worse shrew under her name, goeth about to persuade as heretics do, that the councils be to be accounted the councils of temporal princes, not of bishops, and that they be the heads of them, not the Bishop of Rome. 
That in cases men may ref●se to come to councils it is not denied.  This much to her. Now sir to you Defender. All these examples serve you to no purpose. It is not denied you, but that in cases men may refuse to come to councils. Your examples declare, that catholic bishops shunned to come to the unlawful councils of heretics. But ye holding strange opinions condemned by the church, deny to come to the lawful councils of catholic bishops. When ye haue proved us to be heretics, I mean the fathers of the late council, 
These father● refu●ed to come to heretical councils.  then may ye justly allege the example of Athanasius, Chrysostome, Maximus, Paphnutius, cyril, Paulinus, and such other, for not coming to the council. But if we shall be tried catholic, then haue ye no excuse of your not coming thither. If ye for your part would or could keep any conventicle for maintenance of your schisms and heresies, by the example of these before name worthy bishops we might justly tarry at home, and refuse to come among you. Where ye say these good bishops should haue had free speech, if they had come to the councils of their malicious and stiff necked enemies, ye say that vpon conjecture. certain it is that Athanasius, if he had come to some, had ben like either to be killed, or put in prison, or other wise outrageously handled.  
Butte now sithence none of us may bee suffered so much as to sit, or once to bee seen in these mennes meetings, 
apology  much less suffered to speak freely our mind, and seeing the Popes Legates, patriarchs, Archebyshops, bishops, and abbots, all being conspired together, all linked together, in one kind of fault, and all bound by one oath, sit alone by themselves, and haue power alone to give their consent: and at last when they haue all done, as though they had done nothing, bring all their opinions to be judged at the will and plasure of the Pope, being but one man, to th'end he may pronounce his own sentence of himself, who ought rather to haue answered to his complaint, sithence also the same ancient and Christian liberty which of all right should specially bee in Christian councils, is now utterly taken away from the council: for these causes I say wise and good men ought not to marvel at this day, though we do the like now, that they see was don in times past in like case of so many Fathers and catholic Byshops, which is as though we choose rather to sit at home and leave our whole cause to good, then to journey thither, whereas wee neither shall haue place, nor bee able to do any good: whereas wee can obtain no audience, whereas Princes ambassadors be but used as mockyng stocks, and whereas also all wee be condemned already before trial, as though the matter were a forhand dispatched and agreed vpon.   

THE EIGHT CHAPTER.  
If I wist ye would take my counsel in good part, 
Confutation.  and listen unto it, as it standeth you vpon, I would aduise you to call in all the books of your apology, and that with no less diligence, then ye went about to suppress the books of my answer to M. Iuelles challenge at their first coming abroad. That done to cast brutes abroad, that the apology was made and counterfeited by some crafty Papist, to bring you quiter out of credite with all the world. So might ye perhaps in time recover some part of your lost estimation. For whiles your books be in mens hands, they shalbe an evident witness to all the world of your shameless lying. We need not to proclaim you liars, your own public writing maketh proclamation of it every where. Ye allege six causes why ye came not to the council. The first is because( as ye pretend) ye be not suffered so much as to sit or once to be sene in our meetings, 
six cause alleged by the defenders, why they came not to the late general council.  much less to speak freely your mind, and that the ancient and christian liberty, which of all right should specially be in christian councils, is now utterly taken a way from the council. How true this is all christendom knoweth, and yourselves can not be ignorant. The book of the canons and decrees of the council hath ben printed almost in all partes of christendom. 
safe-conducts granted forth for gospelers safe coming to the council at Tren e.  look who list, in every book he shall find three several solemn safe-conducts granted by the council, and confirmed by the three Popes, under whom the same was celebrated. Which safe-conducts contain first in most ample wise full liberty, power, authority and assurance for all and singular persons of all germany, of what degree, state, condition or quality so ever they be, that would come to that ecumenical and general council, to conferre propound, and treat with al freedom, of al things to be treated there, and to the same council freely and safely to come, there to tarry and abide, and to offer and put up articles, so many as they thought good, as well in writing as by word, and with the fathers and others thereto chosen, to confer, and without any reproaches or upbraidings to dispute, also at their pleasure safely again from thence to depart.  
Furthermore in the foresaid safe-conducts the Protestantes are permitted for their more liberty and security, that if for offences by them committed or to be committed they were desirous to haue iudges deputed to them, they should name such as bare them good will, yea though their offences were never so heinous and sauering of heresy.  
This is the abridgement of either of those three safecondutes. The first so granted and confirmed by Pope Paul the third, is put in the book of the council after the xiij. Session. The second so granted and confirmed by Pope Iulius the third, is set after the xv. Session. The third is placed after the xviij. Session. Which was granted likewise by the countcell, and confirmed by our holy father the Pope pus the fourth yet living. After which immediately followeth an extension of the same liberty, security, faith public, and safeconduct, to other nations. The same because it is short, having relation to the safeconduct before expressed, which is very long: I will not let here to put in truly translated.  
An extension to other nations.  
The same holy council in the holy ghost lawfully assembled, 
An extension of the safe-conducts pertaining to all in general.  the same Legates de later of the See apostolic being president in it, to all and singular others, which haue not communion with us in those matters that be of faith, of what so ever kingdoms, nations, provinces, cities, and places, in which openly, and without punishment is preached or taught or believed the contrary of that, which the holy roman church holdeth, giveth faith public or Safeconduct, under the same form, and th● same words, with which it is given to the germans.  
This being most true, as the better part of the world seeth, and the books and public instrumtēes extant do witness: your excuse of your refusal to come to the council, as bishops of other christian realms did, is found false. Ye had al free liberty and security granted unto you for that behalf in so ample and large maner, as mans wit could devise. And if yourselves would haue penned the instrument of the safeconducte to your one most commodity, all your heads could not haue devised how to haue made it more free and sure for you( unless ye would haue had your heresies being once perfitly confuted to be allowed for truth) then it was. Thus is your first cause fully answered, and clean wiped away.  

2  The second cause why ye came not, is, for that the Popes legates, 
The Defenders complain of the fathers concord at the Tridentine council.  patriarchs, Archebishops, Bishops, and abbots, all being conspired together, all linked together in one kind of fault, and all bound in one oath, sit alone by themselves, and haue power alone to give their consent. What is here that should let you to join with others for procuring unity and peace in Christendom? complain ye of the fathers concord and agreeing together? That is a sign the spirit of God author of charity and unity governeth their hartes. In that respect they seem to come together in the holy ghost. For what else you mean by your term of conspiring and lincking together in one fault, 
The unity of the catholics seemeth to heretics a conspiracy.  I know not. Ye had rather they were divided I suppose, and that were more to your purpose. In dede their joining together in defence of the catholic faith, seemeth to you a fault and a conspiracy. For to you it is a most damnable fault, a man to be a Papist, that is so say, catholic. And who so ever join together in the catholic faith, the same seem to you to conspire against you. So true and trusty subiectes conspire against rebelles. So the iudges, iustices, and the twelve men at the assizes conspire against felones.  
And what say ye here for flying conference in the late council, where ye were summoned, called, and required to come, and to say for yourselves what ye could, that rebelles, traitors, thieves, murtherers, and such the like might not say for their not appearing in iudgement? With as good reason as ye say here, they may say also. What madness were it for us to come to the assizes or Sessions? The Iudges, the Iustices, the Lawyers, the whole bench, the twelve men, be they not all conspired together? Be they not all linked together in one fault of riddyng us out of the way? Be not they bound by one oath to serve the queen truly? Haue not they only the handling of our matter in their own hands? Haue not they power to give verdict and sentence against us? Wherefore we were worse then mad to come there, if we may keep ourselves away. The tale ye tell here for yourselves, is none other. And in dede had ye gone thither, your heresies had ben confuted, yourselves required to yield, and to conform you to the catholic church, or else ye had ben anathematized, accursed, and condemned. Now, because ye thought ye should do no good there, that is to say, ye should not be able to maintain your new gospel, ye thought better to tarry at home. For my part in good soothe I would not blame you, were it so for surety, that after this good cheer ye make here with your brethren and miters in Christ, a hard reckoning were not to be made, where if ye repent not, ye are most assured to pay and lay down your miserable souls to the everlasting torment of hell fire.  
But ye complain, the Legates, Patriarkes, archebishops, &c. sit alone by themselves, and haue power alone to give consent. What would ye lay men to haue gone thither and sit among the Bishops? Would ye haue sword and buckelers, rapiers and buskines, come into a general council, and give sentence in matters of faith? 
lay men be not wholly excluded from councils.  Not so. Yet lay men be not wholly excluded. For there be the ambassadors of all Princes and states. But sentence they give not, that pertaineth to Bishops only. doubtless if M. Doctor Parker, and M. young had bē Archebishops, and gone thither, they should haue had their seats amongst the Archebishops there. likewise if ye had had any bishops in your clergy, coming thither they had ben placed among the bishops. Mary their wives I think should not haue ben suffered to sit amongst them. Therefore to keep them company they had rather tarry at home. Thus is your second cause refeled.  

3  Your third cause is, for that the determinations and decrees of the council be referred to the Pope. To that we haue answered before. The Pope confirmeth all, being head over the council. Doth not the queen so pardy confirm your acts of parliament, by giving her royal assent unto them at th'end of the parliament? What thing can be done perfitly by a body without the head? And who might better confirm councils, then he, whose faith in pronouncing sentence rightly and duly in matters concerning faith, we are assured by Christes prayer, 
luke. 22.  to be infallible.  

4  Your fourth cause is, forasmuch as the ancient and Christian liberty, which of right should specially be in Christian councils, is now utterly taken away. This cause is not different from your first. Your repetition is void and vain. One answer may serve both. That ye pretend in both is false, as I haue now proved.  

5  Your fifth cause is a false lie, that Princes ambassadors be used but as mocking stocks. Truth it is, 
Princes Ambassadoures be honourably placed in general councils.  they haue most honourable seats in all councils. In this council they sate by the Legates. every ambassador hath his place there according to the degree of honour, the kingdoms, common weals, states, and Princes be of, from whence and from whom he cometh. And that altogether by an ancient ordinance in that behalf made and agreed vpon of old time, for avoiding of strife and emulation. Which all men may see set forth in print.  

6  The sixth and last cause, ye allege for your not coming to the council is, for that ye be condemned already before trial, as though the matter were a forehand dispatched and agreed vpon. In dede your heresies for the more part be and haue ben condemned above a thousand yeres past. And therefore they are not now to be called unto a new trial, 
The gospelers heresies need not a new discussion. John. 14.  as though the church until this day had ben deceived, and so many fathers overseen. If the holy ghost haue hitherto taught the church, and derected it unto all truth, according to Christes promise, they should do injury to the holy ghost, who would bring your doctrine, that so evidently appeareth contrary to the catholic faith, to be tried by a new discussion. And yet to thintent ye might be converted and made good christian men, had ye come thither, ye had ben heard to say what ye could, your arguments had ben clearly discussed, and the truth plainly set forth before you. For who knoweth whether God will open your hartes, and give you grace to repent? This notwithstanding may ye well say touching that point, your matter is afore hand dispatched and agreed vpon. For they know what ye can say, and see, that ye say nothing, but only stand wilfully and stubbornly in your false opinions, and fleshly pleasures. This the world seeth and considereth, that ye can not allege somuch as one just and reasonable cause, why ye would not come to the general council.  

apology  nevertheless wee can bear pacientlye and quyetely our own private wrongs: but wherefore do they shut out Christian kings, and good Princes from their convocation? Why do they so vncourteously, or with such spite leave them out, and as though they were not either Christen men, or else could not judge, will not haue them made acquainted with the cause of Christian Religion, nor understand the state of their own Churches?   

THE NINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  Ye commend your own goodness more then the world seeth cause. If ye haue such quietness and patience, as ye say, how happeneth it, ye haue made such unquietness, tumults, and rebellions in England, Scotland, france, and other partes of christendom? No wrongs are done to you. But because ye can not thrust forth your gospel so far abroad in the world, as ye desire: ye do what ye can to stir princes hatred against vs. 
Christen Princes be not shut out of councils.  But to your bitter objection we answer, that Christen kings and good princes be not shut out from any general council. They are not left out vncourteously and with spite, as though they were not Christen men, as ye very vncourteously and not without spite lay to our charge. If ye had ben at Trent, ye should haue sene the ambassadors of all catholic christen kings and princes there. Wherefore ye find yourselves grieved as it were in the princes behalf, where themselves, as they haue no cause, so neither at all be grieved with vs. But for all the praise ye give to your own patience and quietness, ye would fain put the sword in princes hands against us, and where they be not for your own tooth, there put ye the sword in the peoples hands against the princes. The worst I wish you is, that either God give you grace to repent and amend, or take power from you to do evil.  
Or yf the said kings and Princes happen to entermedle in such matters, and take vpon them to do that they may do, 
apology  that they be commanded to do, and ought of duty to do, and the same things that we know both david and Salomon and other good Princes haue don, that is, if they whiles the Pope and his Prelates slugge and sleep, or else mischeuouslye withstand them, do bridle the Priestes sensuality, and drive them to do their deuty, and keep them still to yt: yf they do overthrow Idols, yf they take away superstition, and set up again the true worshipping of God, why do they by and by make an out cry vpon them, that such Princes trouble all, and press by violence into an other bodies office, and do thereby wickedly and malepartly. What scripture hath at any time forbidden a Christian Prince to be made priuey to such causes? Who but themselves alone made ever any such lawe?  
Ye confound the offices of the spiritual gouernours and temporal magistrates. 
Confutation.  What kings and Princes may do, what they be commanded to do, and ought of duty to do: in Gods name let them do, and well may they so do.  
Who is he that gain saith? If by the pretensed example of david and Salomon ye animate them to intermeddle with bishoply offices, then beware they( say we) that Gods vengeance light not vpon them for such wicked presumption, which lighted vpon king Ozias for the like offence. 
2. Par. 26   
Ye teach princes to use violence against priestes, as though their faults could not be redressed by the prelates of the clergy, of whom ye speak by spiteful surmise, as though God had utterly withdrawn his holy spirit from them. But forasmuch as Christ assisteth his church always, and shall never fail in things necessary, it is not to be doubted, but the church shall ever be provided of some good gouernours, so as, though some slugge and sleep, yet some other shal wake and diligently attend their charge. Priestes haue their ecclesiastical courts, 
Priestes defaults ought to be punished by the e●clesiastical courts  where their defaults and offences may duly and canonically be punished, and the offenders by priestly discipline be redressed. Neither is it convenient for a king to come into priestes consistories, nor to call priestes before him to his own seat of iudgement.  
So many as be necessary to minister and perform those things, that apparteine to the building up of Christes body the church until it come to his perfection, S. Paul reckoneth by name in his epistle to the Ephesians, saying that Christ hath to that end placed in his church some Apostles, 
Ephes. 4.  some prophetes, some evangelists, some foresees and teachers. kings and Princes be not there name, as they who haue their proper rank, though they be highest of all and most to be honoured and obeied of all among the sheep, yet be they sheep, and not foresees, but in respect of temporal government of the people, as Homer calleth king Agamemnō the shepherd of people. God in the scripture calleth kings the nourrishers, 
Esai. 49.  and queens the nurses of his church. spiritual government of the church common with bishops who so ever giveth to temporal princes, he confoundeth all order. Which confusion best pleaseth these Defenders, for when order taketh place, their disordered state must be displaced.  
Neither thanked be God be there now idols in the church for thē to overthrow, neither is the true worshipping of God so cast down, as it require princes to set it up again. We haue the right worshipping of God in the church. Your presumptuous heads would that princes should take vpon thē the office of bishops, yea and of the Pope himself, and by force to drive men to a new kind of worshipping of your own devise. That being once received and for good admitted without check or control, as your new schismatical service yet is not, but by terror of punishment only obtruded to the unwilling people: then would ye make great boast of your reformations and restitutions, and bear the world in hand they were not Christians before your time. So would ye damn all that lived before our dayes in word, and damn all that believe you at these dayes in dede.  
That the people be to be stirred by us to more fervent devotion to worship God, and some perhaps to be warned of some cases of superstition, we grant. But that any other manner or kind of worshipping of God is either by us or by temporal Princes to be set up in Christes church, that we deny.  
They will say to this, I guess, 
apology  civil Princes haue learned to govern a common wealth, and to order matters of war, but they understand not the secret mysteries of religion. If that be so, what is the Pope I pray you, at this day, other then a monarch or a Prince? Or what be the Cardinals, who must be no neither now but Princes and kings sons? What else be the patriarchs, and for the most part the Archebishops, the Bishops, the abbots? What be they else at this present in the Popes kingdom, but worlikely Princes, but dukes and earls, gorgeously accompanied with bands of men whither so ever they go? Oftentimes also gaily arrayed with chains and colours of gold. They haue at times to, certain ornaments by themselves, as crosses, pillars, hats, deceivers, and Palles, which pomp the ancient bishops Chrisostom, Augustine, and Ambrose never had. Setting these things aside, what teach they? What say they? What do they? How live they? I say not, as may become a bishop, but as may become even a Christian man. Is it so great a matter to haue a vain title, and by changing a garment only to haue the name of a bishop?  
The duty of civil Princes consisteth in civil matters, 
Confutation.  the duty of Bishops in spiritual things. That serveth to the preservation of mens persons, this to the salvation of their souls. 
Heb. 5.  every high priest( saieth S. Paul) that is taken from among men, is ordained for men in things appertaining to God. 
In case of Bishops negligence the temporal Prince may not take vpon him thoffice of a bishop.  Ye move temporal Princes to take vpon them the office of the Pope and Bishops, as though it were a thing so indifferent and so common, that when Bishops be negligent, temporal men may do their stede. But the reason which to this end ye make, is so slender, as I ween few Princes that fear God, will be greatly moved to aduenter that thing so much subject and thrall to Gods reuenge. In effect your reason is this, consider it who will. They of the clergy be no other but civil Princes, ergo temporal Princes may bear the office of bishops. sir both your argument is nought, and your antecedent is false. For although bishops had but a title, and the name of bishops by changing a garment only, as you say: yet that defect in them should not give ability to the more lay, as to kings and queens, to do the office of Bishops. Now is your antecedent manifestly false, for the Bishops of the catholic church, which in scoff ye call the Popes kingdom, be duly ordinated and consecrated.  
Though the Pope haue a princely dominion, and some other Bishops of christendom haue dukedoms and Erledomes, though they ride well accompanied with men and horse, yea though some of them otherwise then becometh that vocation, do wear chains and colers of gold, as you belie them: though they haue other ornaments to their states pertaining, which griueth you much in comparison of the beggary of your married estate: yet all this imbarreth them not but that they be Bishops. As in your worthy clergy an honest sober tapster, that can red in the communion book, may be a minister of the congregation, although he wear a square cap, be it never so great a disorder in your conceit: so these lands, trains, rich ornaments and fournitures take not away from bishops, but for all that they be bishops.  
Though they teach not, though they say not, though they do not, though they live not, as becometh bishops, neither as becometh even a Christen man, as you rail, all this notwithstanding, yet be they bishops, though evil bishops. Neither for all this may it be lawful for lay men to take their office vpon them. Iudas was an Apostle till the rope choked him. Neither for his wickedness might steven, Mathias, or any other of the disciples of his own presumption haue stepped into his rome. Now as this is true, so is your railing talk false, which malice hath stirred you to utter. And that we depart not out of our own country for examples, say the worst ye can by our bishops of England, whom ye haue deprived and at this day keep in prison, the world is for good cause persuaded of their worthiness both for learning and good life.  
Surely to haue the principal stay and effect of all matters committed wholly to these mennes hands, 
apology  who neither know nor will know these things, nor yet set a iote by any point of Religion, save that which concerns their belly and riot, and to haue them alone sit as Iudges, and to be set up as overseers in the watch tower being no better then blind spies: of the other side, to haue a Christian Prince of good understanding and of a right iudgement, to stand still like a block or a stake, not to be suffered: neither to give his voice, nor to show his iudgement, but onely to wait what these men shall will and command, as one which had neither ears nor eyes nor wit, nor heart, and whatsoever they give in charge, to allow it without exception, blindly fulfilling their commandments, be they never so blasphemous and wicked, yea although they command him quiter to destroy all Religion, and to crucify again Christ himself. This surely besides that it is proud and spiteful, is also beyond all right and reason and not to be endured of Christian and wise Princes. Why I pray you, may Cayphas and Annas understand these mats, and may not david and Ezechias do the same? Is it lawful for a cardinal being a man of war and delightius in blood, to haue place in a council, and is it not lawful for a Christian Emperour or a king?   

THE TENTH CHAPTER.  
Put the words of this railing Defenders amplification aside, and the whole sentence that riseth of all this talk, 
Confutation.  is only this. It is not reason Bishops be iudges in matters of faith, and not secular Princes. 
The sum of this chapter confuted.  Now to give a colour hereto, and to move Princes to take the matter into their own hands, they say as becometh them and none else. For there is no man of wisdom or honesty, that would with so impudent lies diminish his credite, and with so immoderate upbraidings impair the estimation of his modesty. Neither be these men so hote in this matter for any love they bear to secular Princes. For if any such Prince be not a favourer of their gospel, then haue they a blast of a trumpet to blow him down, as it appeareth by their books made against the monstrous regiment of women, and by the good obedience their French brethren the Huguenots keep toward their king in france. Other examples of the like evangelical obedience in other countries, I leave to mens remembrance. If a cardinal, be he of never so evil life, defend their preaching, he is an honest man I warrant you, and of a good iudgement, and worthy of that rome. Thus they measure all things by fancy, not by truth.  
But now let us see what complaint they make both against bishops, and in the behalf of civil magistrates. Bishops say they, neither know nor will know the matters of religion, nor yet set a iote by any point thereof, save that which belongeth to the kitchen and to the belly, for so hath the latin. And they be no better overseers of the watch tower, then blind spies.  
These words being thus spoken in general of all, be odious in respect of men, and blasphemous against Christ. For neither be bishops generally so ignorant, so negligent, so void of religion, so given to the belly, so blind: nor Christ so unmindful to assist them with grace, whom he hath mad his commissioners. 
Mat. 28.  He that said to bishops, docere omnes gentes, teach all nations, giveth also to bshops, both knowledge how to teach, and a will to teach as God, who said, Crescite& multiplicamini, increase y● and multiply: gave to his creatures power and means to increase and multiply. Were it not so, Christ should haue failed his church in necessaries, and haue laid away his providence and care of the church, which to say is blasphemous.  
Touching the reproach of the kitchen and the belly, in what country utter these liars this kind of slander? Had they any spark of shane in them, they would not speak this in England, where catholic bishops be found so far from kitchen and belly matters, as the new superintendentes there are nigh to them. Who setteth more by his belly, he that often times fasteth, and by abstinence from meats and drinks punisheth his belly for Christes sake, the better to subdue the rebellion of his lusts, and to make his flesh obedient to the spirit: or he that eateth and drinketh always of the best, to the intent he may serve the lusts of his strumpet at her commandment, without whom most of our new gospelers can no more live, as themselves say, then a fish without water, or as Luther said, then a man can live without spitting? If they mean not of english bishops, but of others, let them go and possess their places, whose lives they reprehend: what do they now in England in their chairs, 
What bishops be most ready to receive this new gospel.  the shadow of whose virtues they can not follow? This I will boldly say, in what so ever country Bishops live worst, every of them as he useth himself most licentiously for his belly and the things that be under his belly, so much the more forward he is to receive this new gospel. And most of them all of that sort, were it not for some indirect regard which they haue to their honor and richesse under a catholic prince, would sooner become heretics, then remain papists.  
Let any man of reason judge, whether he that maketh his belly his God, would not hold with that gospel which maintaineth only faith to justify, the keeping of the commandments to be impossible, confession of sins not to be necessary, a steadfast trust in Christes passion to be the only sufficient way to save al men, live they never so loosely and disorderly: rather then with the gospel, which preacheth no salvation to be without keeping the whole lawe( so far as man may keep it), or rising again from sin by penance, that only faith to justify which worketh by charity, that all mortal sins under pain of damnation must be confessed to the priest if occasion suffer, that Christes passion is applied by means of the sacramentes unto us, and not by confidence of our own fancies. What sinful man I say, all things being equal, would not rather believe and follow this new wrested kind of gospel, then the old interpretation thereof? Where any secular Prince in any realm hath consented to change religion, doth not experience evidently show, that bishops, abbots, priestes, monks, friers of loose life forthtwith embraced this new gospel, and those only withstod it, who were chased and virtuous? Therefore we confess some few evil bishops to be in other countries, but they are the shane of your gospel Sirs, whereunto they belong. And they in dede set not a iote by any point of religion, but only by their belly and fleshly lusts.  
Now where as ye find fault, that princes be executours of bishops decrees, and be not iudges, nor give sentence therof themselves: ye must understand, that Princes will also at an other time make a lawe of temporal matters, as of paying tributes, 
The offices of a priest and a Prince be distinct.  of war, of peace, whereof sometime the bishop shal be in some parte executor, and yet not the judge. The offices of a priest and a prince be so much distincted, as the state of the church differeth from a profane common weal. In the church he is head, whom Christ appointeth shepherd over his flock. In a common weal, he is head, who hath right to it by inheritance, or whom the people maketh ruler. If the matter decreed be spiritual and appertaining to faith, the prince ought to obey without question or grudge. If it be a temporal decree, the bishop who hath temporal goods under the prince, must likewise obey without grudge or gainesayng. So shall that which belongeth to God, be given to God, 
luke. 2.  and that which belongeth to Caesar, shalbe given to Caesar.  
Neither can a christian bishop command any prince to destroy religion, and to crucify Christ himself again, for then he leaveth to be a Christian, and becometh an infidel, whose decree a prince ought not to be obey.  
Ye set Annas and Caiphas, to david and Ezechias, whose lives, offices, and merites, were far different. Would God we had many Dauids, and Ezechiases. I know not where ye can justly crack of them. As for Annas and Caiphas, they were bishops, after that evil kind of bishops( touching merit of life) who now are called superintendentes. For they forsook the true spirit and heart of the lawe, as our new superintendentes altogether following the flesh haue forsaken the spirit and hart of the gospel, only pretending a name and colour of it without any truth or honesty.  
And yet concerning the office of bishops, Annas and Caiphas came to it not fully by so evil means, as our superintendentes came to their office. They kept yet the tradition and order of the lawe in outward things. They suffered the temple and altar to stand. Sacrifice was done to God. But these superintendentes haue thrown down altars every where, the temples of Christ in many places, and deny the thankful sacrifice to God, which is the body and blood of his dere son. If therefore they bid Christ to be thrown out of the church, his blessed body to be trodden under feet, no Prince ought to hear them.  
Now david and Ezechias were they never so good men, yet their office was not priesthood, as it shall appear hereafter. If a Cardinal being a man of war, and delighting in blood( as these men say) sit in the council, he increaceth his own damnation, by handling holy matters with sinful hands. But that excuseth not a temporal Prince requiring to haue the place of a judge there. But if any Christian prince without authority of judging will sit in the council, it is not denied to him. Yea all Christian Princes, as we haue said before, 
A Prince may sit in a genreall council without authority of judging.  haue their place assigned them in a general council, and their orators and ambassadors haue it in their absence. And had not certain gospelers given contrary aduise, we had sene at the late council of Trent the ambassours also of our sovereign lady queen Elizabeth, with those of other christian princes. But they that sought division,( which is not the best way to procure safety) dissuaded her majesty from that matter.  

apology  we truly grant no further liberty to our Magistrates, then that we know hath both ben given them by the word of God, and also confirmed by the examples of the very best governed common earths.   

THE ELEVENTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  If a man should ask you where that word of God is, that maketh a temporal prince supreme head of that part of the church, which he hath government of in all civil matters: I am sure you can can bring forth no other word of God, 
1. Pet. 2. Rom. 13.  then that wherein S. Peter and S. Paul willeth all men to obey the superior powers, especially kings. Which thing was written to all christian men, whiles they lived under heathen princes and infidels, as Claudius caesar and Nero were, whom I suppose ye will not say to haue ben heads of the whole church, as they were work and Princes of the whole world. If then by those scriptures which can not prove Nero( being persecutor of Christes church) to haue ben head of the same, you will now prove that other princes are supreme heads of the church: it seemeth that either you make Nero head of the church with them, or give more unto them, then the word of God will bear. 
never was there before our time any temporal Prince, that took vpon him to be supreme head of the church.  And as for examples of good common weals, show us but one since Christes ascension, wherein before Luthers time any Emperour Christian or other Prince, did attribute that title unto himself: and we will say, that when you speak of common weals in the plural number, you make but one lie, but in case you show us no one common weal that hath so done, then you lie in the plural number. Yea further if at this day the common weals in christendom not only that are catholic, but the best also of those that are Lutherish and newefangled, do abhor from that strange and unheard title of supreme head of the church: why do you say, that ye haue either word of God for it, or example of approved common weals?  
For besides that a Christian Prince hath the charge of both tables committed to him by God, 
apology  to the end he may understand that not temporal matters only, but also religious and ecclesiastical causes pertain to his office:  
You will prove that ecclesiastical causes pertain to a kings office, because he hath the charge of both tables. 
Confutation.  If you mean that a king is bound to keep both tables of the lawe, so is also every private man. And yet as no private man is supreme head of the church by keeping them, so neither the king is proved thereby the supreme head. If you mean that the king ought to see others to keep both tables of the lawe: that may he do either in appointing temporal pains for the transgressors of them, or in executing the said pains vpon the transgressors. But as he can not excommunicate any man for not appearing when he is called, so can he not judge all causes of the lawe. For if a man sin only in his heart, as for example in murder, or adultery: the king can not haue to do with him. And yet the true supreme head of the church shall haue to do with him. For that malicious and sinful thought shall never be forgiven, except the party come to be absolved of their successors, to whom Christ said, 
joan. 20.  whose sins ye forgive, they are forgiven, and whose sins ye retain, they are retained. To committe murder in heart is a sin, and it is retained until it be forgiven. Neither can it be forgiven, until he that is judge, by the key of discretion perceive that it is to be forgiven. Which he can not know, until it be confessed with a contrite hart by him who only knoweth it, and is bound to tell it for absolutions sake. If then there be a judge, who can see the lawe kept in an higher point and beyond the reach of the king, surely the king shall not be supreme head, sith an other is more like to God, then he. As who is judge of the inward conscience, whereunto no king reacheth, but only the minister of Christ, who is the spiritual king, 
Matth. 16.  and hath given the keys of his kingdom to his minister.  

apology  Besides also that God by his Prophetes often and earnestly commandeth the king to cut down the groves, to break down the Images and altars of idols, and to writ out the books of the lawe for himself: and besides that the Prophet Esaias saith, a king ought to be a patron and nurse of the church:  

Confutation.  Your second argument for the ecclesiastical power of kings is, because God bad them to cut down superstitious groves, and overthrow idols, as though this were not an office of executing a commandment, rather then of decreeing any thing. The authority to discern an image of Christ from an idol of the devill, belongeth to them who know that an image is a name of arte, which is of God, an idol is a name of false worshipping, which is of the devill. So that an image is godly, and idol devilish. When the priest hath judged this or that to be an idol, or when it is evident, that so it is, then the king shall do well to break it down. But if the king will break down the image of Christ, when the priest telleth him it is a godly represention, and no idol: then the king doth more then his office requireth. And shall not only not prove his supremacy, 
1. Reg. 28.  but also shall incur danger to be rejected of God, as king Saul was, when he despised to keep the commandment of samuel the high priest.  
Whereas you allege for a kings ecclesiastical power, that he was commanded to writ out the book of the lawe for himself: why left ye out that which followeth there immediately, accipiens exemplar à sacerdotibus Leuiticae tribus? 
Deut. 17.  The king must writ out a book of the deuteronomy, but the example thereof he must receive of the priestes that be of the tribe of levi. 
Priestes above kings in spiritual things.  If in spiritual matters the king were above the priestes, why had he not the keeping of the lawe in his own hands? Why must he take it of the priestes? why did not rather the priestes come to him, sith the inferior taketh all his right of the superior? If the priestes must give the holy scripture unto the king, then verily must he take such as they give him, and with such meaning as they give unto it. So that if you had not falsified the meaning of Gods word by leaving out half the sentence, this place had proved against you. 
To what end is a ● king required to red the scripture.  It is to be weighed to what end a king is required to haue and to read that holy book. verily not to take vpon him the parte of a judge in causes of religion, but as there it is expressed, to thintent he learn to fear his Lord God, 
Deut. 17.  and keep his words and ceremonies in the lawe commanded, and that his heart be not lifted up into pride above his brethren. &c. I omit that you red librum legis, where as the church readeth deuteronomium, it were to long to enter into that disputation. the book of the lawe signifieth the whole lawe, the deuteronomy is but one of the five books.  
Where esay calleth a king a patron of the church, I haue not found. But were it he called him so, it betokeneth, that he should defend the church from worldly enemies, as in repelling the Turkes, in expelling heretics, and such the like kingly acts. Which proveth no spiritual supremacy, but under God a fealty and serviceable power. I find where esay saith, 
Cap. 49.  Et erunt Reges nutricij tui,& Reginae nutrices tuae. kings shall be thy fosterers, and queens thy nurses. But not every nurse or fosterer is above him, who is nourrished. A faithful seruant oftentimes fostereth the master. Yet is he not above his master. Besides S. jerome understandeth the kings whom esay nameth, to be the Apostles, according to which sense it maketh nothing to the purpose it is alleged for.  

apology  I say besides all these things, we se by histories and by examples of the best times, that good Princes ever took the administration of ecclesiastical matters to pertain to their duty.  

Confutation.  Where you say the godly princes haue taken the careful charge or procuration( for so is your latin) of churches to pertain to their duty,( the ladies false interpretation calleth it thadministration of ecclesiastical matters): I grant it be most true. But this charge or procuration is not by and by a supreme government. You haue forgotten I perceive, or would seem to forget the state of the question. We deny that the authority to decide controversies in religion is in a temporal princes power, you affirm. But like wily workers, ye mingle truth among falsehood, to make your matter more apparent.  
Moses a civil Magistrat& chief guide of the people, 
apology Exod. 32.  both received from God,& delivered to the People al the order for religion and Sacrifices, and gave Aaron the Bishop a vehement and soare rebuk for making the golden call, and for suffering the corruption of Religion.  
Moses was not only a civil Magistrate, but also a priest. 
Confutation.  In that he had both offices, it proveth that a priest may haue both, but not contrariwise, that a king may haue both. For the greater may include the less, but the less can not include the greater. The office of a priest is the highest of all. And Christ coming naturally of the kings line from david in the tribe of Iuda, yet esteemed that honor nothing in respect of that he was a priest according to the order of Melchisedech. Therefore Melchisedech also being both priest and king, was not yet said to be the figure of Christ somuch concerning his kingdom, as his priestehod. For david said of Christ, 
Psal. 109.  Thou arte a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedech. As for his kingdom, it was included in his priestes office. And therefore when we speak of Christes kingdom, though in every respect he be the very king in dede of all kings and Lord of all lords: yet we assign it also to haue ben vpon the cross, ubi regnavit a ligno deus, 
justinus in dial. aduersus Tryph. Exod. 19. 1. Pet. 2.  where God reigned from the wood. According to the same meaning, whereas the people of Israel were called regnum sacerdotale, a priestly kingdom: S. Peter writing to Christians, turned the order of the words, 
Moses was both a priest and a civil Mag●strate.  calling the church of Christ sacerdotium regal, a kingly priesthood. Moses was both a priest and a civil governor, as being a figure of Christ, who joined both together, making the tribe of Iuda which was before kingly, now also to be priestly. Therefore S. Augustine vpon those words of david, 
Psal. 98.  Moses and Aaron are in the number of his priestes, concludeth, that Moses must needs haue ben a priest. For( saith he) if he were not a priest, what was he? Nunquid maior sacerdote esse potuit, could he be greater then a priest? As who should say, there is no greater dignity, then priesthood. And seing moses had the greatest dignity, for he ruled all and consecrated Aaron high bishop and his sons priestes, therefore himself must needs haue ben a priest. Now if Moses were both, and his chief office was priesthood, it followeth by that example, that the Pope may rule temporally, but not that a king may rule spiritually. Thus you haue gained nothing by this example.  

apology  Iosua also, though he were no neither then a civil Magistrat, yet as soon as he was chosen by God, and set as a Ruler over the people, 
Iosua. ca. 1.  he received commandments, specially touching Religion and the service of God.  

Confutation.  There is no doubt but Iosue received commission and commandment to worship God, but none to rule priestes in spiritual matters. Yea rather he was commanded to go forth and comein at the voice and word of Eleazarus the high priest, 
number. 27  he and all the children of Israel. Do not these men prove their matter handsomely?  

apology 1. Paral. 13  king david, when the whole religion was altogethers brought out of frame by wicked king Saul, brought home again the ark of God, that is to say, he restored Religion again, and was not onely amongst them himself as a counsellor and furtherer of the work, but he appointed also hymns and psalms, put in order the companies, and was the only doer in setting forth that whole solemn show, and in effect ruled the priests.  

Confutation.  As david restored all things to good order, after the evil king Saul, so did queen marye redress disorders before committed. But as queen marye did it by the mean of priestes, 
1. Paral. 15.  so king david in priestly matters called for Sadoch and Abiathar. In dede david passed other Princes herein, because he had the gift of prophecy, 
david was no judge of spiritual matters.  whereby he wrote psalms, which to this day we sing. But all this maketh nothing to prove him judge of spiritual matters. He did not usurp the authority to sacrifice, to discern the leper, and to do the like things of priestly charge.  
king Salomon built unto the Lord the Temple, 
apology 2. Paral. 6. 3. Reg. 8.  which his Father david had but purposed in his mind to do: and after the finishing therof, he made a goodly oration to the people, concerning Religion and the service of God, he afterward displaced Abiathar the Priest, and set Sadock in his place.  
Salomons building of the temple and praying therein proveth no supremacy over the priestes in spiritual things. 
Confutation. 3. Reg. 2.  His putting of Abiathar out of his dignity and rome, 
Outward execution of iustice proveth no right of determining spiritual causes.  was like to that queen Marye did to Cranmare. Whom she might haue removed for treason, as Salomon laid the like to Abiathar: yet she choose rather to burn him for heresy. But this proveth only an outward execution of iustice without any prejudice to the substance of our question. Which is, whether a temporal Prince may determine the causes of religion or no.  
After this, 
apology 2. Paral. 29.  when the Temple of God was in shameful wise polluted through the naughtiness and negligence of the priestes, king Ezechias commanded the same to be cleansed from the ruble and filth, the priestes to light up candles, to burn incense, and to do their divine service, according to the old allowed custom. The same king also commanded the brazen Serpent, 
4. Reg. 18.  which then the people wickedly wordshipped, to be taken down and beaten to powder.  
Ezechias did will the temple to be cleansed, 
Confutation.  as we trust God will move the heart of our sovereign lady queen Elizabeth in England, and of other good Princes in other countries to cleanse it from the filth, which ye haue brought into it. Who haue in many places turned churches into stables. 
4. Reg. 18.  He broke the brazen serpent, which being first commanded to be set up by God, was afterward with great abuse worshipped. As your communion table ought to be taken away and broken, because ye haue set it up against ●hrist, and in despite of the blessed sacrifice of the altar, wh●●h and haue abandoned. But how often shall I tell you, that this proveth no more, but that good kings do good deeds, maintain true religion, and pull down the false, as the Constable of france burned the pulpits of the Huguenots in Paris? But these facts prove not that kings and Constables be iudges of religion, which is good, and which is evil, which true, which false. For therein they follow the iudgement and aduise of priestes, and Prophetes, 
4. reg. 20. 4. Reg. 9.  who be about them, as Esaias was at hand with good king Ezechias to direct his doings, and so was Elizaeus with king jehu.  

apology 1. Par. 17.  king jehosaphat overthrew and utterly made away the hill altars and groves, whereby he saw Goddes honour hindered, and the people holden back with a private superstition from the ordinary Temple which was at jerusalem, where to they should by order haue resorted yearly from every part of the realm.  

Confutation.  Ye put us in mind to consider how that yourselves are those private hill altars and dark groves. For ye be they that stop the people from the common temple of christendom, the catholic church, out of which is no salvation, the head whereof sitteth in Peters chair at Rome. If any good Prince would overthrow this your superstition, and restore the temple of England, 
No king nor ciu●ll Mag●strate can be shewed to haue decided any controversy in religion  ye may be sure that Prince should rather show himself in that fact a good member of the church, then supreme head. All your proofs do but show, that Princes may further and set up a known true religion. But when any question riseth of religion, you show no king to haue decided the same by his own authority. And as for king josaphat, himself gave a rule plain contrary to all your allegations. For setting order both in matters of common weal and others, he said thus concerning religion: 
2. Par. 19.  Amarias sacerdos& pontifex vester in iis quae ad deum pertinent, praesidebit. Amarias the priest and high bishop for such matters as pertain to God, he shall be head over you.  
king josias with great diligence put the Priests and Byshops in mind of their duty: 
apology 4 reg. 12. 4. reg. 10. Confutation.  king Iohas bridled the riot and arrogancy of the priests. jehu put to death the wicked Prophetes.  
The putting of priestes and bishops in mind of their duty, is not a supremacy in determining ecclesiastical causes. And whereas you say that king joas bridled the riot and arrogancy of the priestes, if it were so, it was well done. But I find not those words in the text, Concerning that king jehu did, it is a more temporal office, 
4. reg. 10.  to put false preachers and heretics to death. Neither can it belong to priestes, unless they haue also civil jurisdiction. Much less doth that act prove, that kings be supreme heads over the church, and ought to be iudges in controversies and questions of religion.  
And to rehearse no more examples out of the old law, 
apology  let us rather consider since the birth of Christ, howe the church hath ben governed in the Gospels time.   

THE TWELFTH CHAPTER.  
It was a great tediousness good reader as well for thee to red, 
Confutacion.  as for me to answer these unsensible arguments of our new english clergy. One answer might haue served to them all, but I thought it would be looked for, that I should say somewhat to every example. 
Thoffice of a king considered in itself' is one every where.  Now I will conclude this matter, doing thee to understand, that if we consider the office of a king in itself, it is one every where, not only among christen princes, but also among heathen. The definition of a king which agreeth to Iulius caesar, or to Alexander the great, as they were work and Princes, is one with the definition of aching which agreeth to Henry the eight, or to Charles the fifth. So that no more could king Henry as king, meddle with religion, then Alexander or Iulius caesar. But when we speak of a christian king, we then add a quality of christianity to the kingly office. By which quality that king is a member of the church of Christ. And according to the place which he hath in Christes mystical body, there after may he work. His place is chief among the lay even when they are in the church at the service of God, and without the church in all temporal things and causes he is over the priestes themselves.  
And because all these examples are taken out of the old testament, 
What authority had priestes and kings by the old lawe. Deut. 17.  I will give thee a true resolution out of the same book, what authority priestes had, and what authority kings had. Moses gave this rule concerning the same matter. If( saith he) thou perceive an hard and doubtful iudgement to be with thee between blood and blood, cause and cause, leper and leper, and seest the words of the iudges within thy gates to varie, arise and go up to the place, which thy Lord God shall choose, and thou shalt come to the priestes of the stock of levi, and to the judge that shall be for the time, and thou shalt demand of them, who shall show the truth of iudgement to thee. And thou shalt do what soever they, who are rulers over the place which God shall choose, haue said unto thee, and taught thee according to his lawe, and thou shalt follow their verdict. bow not neither to the right nor to the left hand. Hitherto it is shewed, that the Leuiticall priestes and the judge for the time being shall hear and determine the doubtful causes. But this hearing and determining may be taken, that either the priest alone heard and determined a more spiritual controversy, as whether a disease were the leper or no, or that the judge alone determined a more temporal matter, as what punishment this or that traitor should haue: or that both together should determine a cause of mixed lawe and iudgement, as in what maner the temple ought to be repaired. But neither the priest by this place may meddle with that jurisdiction, which belonged to the temporal judge, neither the judge with that which was spiritual and belonging only to the priest. For of such causes Azarias the priest and bishop said to king Ozias, It is not thy office Ozias to burn incense unto our Lord. 
2. Paral. 26.  It is the office of the priestes. That is to say, of the sons of Aaron. Who are consecrated to do such ministries. But this the king might do even in matters of religion. When the high priest had given sentence, he might see the execution thereof to be done. But otherwise what so ever king or temporal judge might not do in his own person, much less might he judge, whether an other did well there in or no. And this much concerning the old testament.  
The Christian Emperours in the old time, 
apology.  appointed the councils of the bishops. Constantine called the council at Nice, Theodotius the first, called the council at Constantinople. Theodotius the second, the council at Ephesus, Martian the council at Chalcedon.  
The calling or summoning of councils may be done either by way of authority, which the caller himself hath, 
Confutation. Emperours haue not called councils by their own only authority, but by thassent of the bishop of Rome.  or by way of authority, which he taketh of an other. If Constantine, the two Theodosians, and Marcian called the four first general councils by their authority only, then were they no general councils. Neither could their decrees bind the whole world. For although they were great Emperours, yet was not the whole Christian world under them. And therefore those Christian bishops who lived in Persia, in Ethiopia, in Scotland, in Scythia, or in any other land not subject to the Emperour, were neither bound to come, nor bound to obey the laws made by them, who were not their superiors. But if it be far from reason that a general council should not bind all bishops and all Christians, it is also far from reason, to say that Emperours called general councils by their own only authority. In dede they called them by the assent of the bishop of Rome. Who being the general shepherd of Christes flock, and therefore also of all bishops, might command all his sheep to come together, except they were reasonably to be excused, and they were bound to hear his voice, and to obey his decree. So that although ye proved the Emperours to haue summoned and called the four first councils, yet were ye not able to prove, they did it without the assent of the bishops of Rome, which for the time sate in Peters chair. And by the force of that assent the dede must take effect. And this much generally.  

S. sylvester assented to the calling of the first general council.  now to prove unto you, that S. sylvester assented to the calling of the first council at Nice, it is to be considered, that he only hath authority to ratify, who hath authority to command and to give assent and strength from the beginning. For none other difference is between commanding, assenting, auctorizing, and ratifying, but that assenting is common to them all, commanding is a thing that goeth before the fact, auctorizing is the making of a thing good by present agreeing to it whiles it is done, ratifying is the allowing of it when is it done. If then I show, both that the Pope did ratify the calling of the general councils, 
The sending of the Popes legates to al councils, sheweth an auctorizing of of the same.  and auctorize them: I show much more that he assented to the calling of them. The auctorizing is proved, by reason he sent his legates to every of them. As S. sylvester sent Osius Cordubensis of the province of spain unto Nice with Victor and Vincentius priestes of the city of Rome. Of which the last two being themselves no bishops, yet for that they were legates of the chief bishop, did in the first place put unto the decrees of that council their consent and names, writing after this sort. Pro venerabili viro papa& episcopo nostro Syluestro subscripsimus. We haue subscribed for the reverent man our Pope and bishop sylvester. 
A council at Rome  And at the very same time that the general council was kept at Nice, S. sylvester called an other council in Rome, at the which two hundred seventy and five bishops were assembled. And it is exprssely written in the same council, 
The cause why councils were called bye the aduise and counsel of Emperours.  sylvester collegit vniuersam synodum episcoporum cum consilio Augusti vel matris eius. sylvester gathered together the whole synod of the bishops with the counsel of the Emperour or his mother. Why his counsel was needful, it appeareth there. Because the Emperour bare the charges of their diet, and carriage. So that his counsel was necessary, not chiefly for religion, but rather for supportation of the charges of so great a journey. For then neither was the bishop of Rome nor other bishops endued with so large possessions, as they were afterward.  
Now to return to the council of Nice. 
Concerning the calling of the first general council.  The Emperour was in dede the cause of their coming together, as well for that himself persuaded that mean of concord, as also for that liberally he defrayed the charges. yet called he not the bishops of his own head. And that these men might haue sene in the ecclesiastical history, where Rufinus writeth, 
Lib. 10. cap. 1. mark, ex sacerdotum sententia.  Tum ille ex sacerdotum sententia apud vrbem Nicaeam episcopale concilium conuocat. Then the Emperour calleth together a council of bishops according to the determination of the priestes. He did it according as it seemed good to the bishops. 
Thauctoritie of the bishop of Rome. In sum. Nice. council.  And shall we think the bishop of Rome was none of them that consented to the calling? Yeas verily he was the chiefest of all. How can it otherwise seem? For when all the decrees were made, Placuit vt hec omnia mitterentur ad Episcopum urbis his Romae Syluestrum. It was thought good that all those acts and decrees should be sent to sylvester bishop of the city of Rome. If he were the last that had the view and confirming of all things, there is no doubt but he had a voice and great authority in calling the council.  

councils might not be kept without the will and aduise of the b. of Rome.  What other is that which Socrates in his ecclesiastical history witnesseth saying, Cum utique regula ecclesiastica jubeat non oportere praeter sententiam Romani Pontificis concilia celebrari, whereas the ecclesiastical rule commandeth, that no councils ought to be kept besides the determinate consent of the bishop of Rome? We know( saith Athanasius and the bishops of Egypt assembled in council at Alexandria) that in the great council of Nice of. 
Hist. trip. li. 4. ca. 9. Epist●la Aegyptior. pontificum. Thumilitie of Constantine the great. Ruf. li. 10. cap. 2. Hist. trip. li. 7. ca. 12.  318. bishops, it was with one accord by all confirmed there, that without the determination of the bishop of Rome, neither councils should be kept, nor bishops condemned. I omit here as a thing well known, how Constantine the Emperour refufed in express words to be judge over bishops, saying, that God had given them power to judge of him, much less did he arrogate to himself only and chiefly authority to summon councils or to judge bishoply affairs. As for me( saith Valentinian the Emperour) in as much as I am but one of the people, 
Valentinian refuseth all authority in matters of religion.  it is not lawful to search such matters,( he speaketh of the heretics doctrines) but let the priestes, to whom this charge belongeth, be gathered together within themselves, where they will, &c.  

Of the second council general confirmed by Damasus.  Concerning the second council, which was the first of those that were kept at Constantinople, it may be that Theodosius called it, as Constantine called the first at Nice. But what authority Damasus bare in the same, it appeareth partly by that he had his Legates there, partly also by that Photius patriarch of Contantinople writeth in his epistle to Michael prince of Bulgaria. Where having declared the coming together of the Patriarkes of Alexandria and jerusalem, he saith thus. 
Photius in lib. de concilijs.  Quibus haud multo post& Damasus episcopus Romae eadem confirmans atque idem sentiens accessit. To which( patriarkes of Alexandria and jerusalem) not long after Damasus the Bishop of Rome joined himself confirming and determining the same matter. This much saith Photius of the second council, the confirmation whereof he doth attribute not to Theodosius the Emperour, but to Damasius the Pope.  
But what did Theodosius then,( will some man say) did he nothing? ye as verily he did very much, as in the said epistle Photius recordeth. 
The Emperours parte.  Then did great Theodosius( saith he) in dede worthy of great praise rule the Empire, who was himself also a defender and a maintainer of godliness. behold what the Emperours part was, not to sit in iudgement of matters of religion, and determine which was the true faith, but to defend it and maintain it. And that thou mayst see reader plainly, what Theodosius thought of religion, whom these Defenders would make a judge in causes of religion: I aduise thee to read the ninth book of the tripartite history, 
Cap. 7. what was great Theodosius opinion touching religion.  where appear many great arguments of his own faith. Which he publisheth to the world from Thessalonica in a public lawe to be such, as Peter had taught the Romaines, and as Damasus who succeeded Peter, taught at that day, requiring all his subiectes to believe the same. He required not them to follow his own private faith, but Peters faith and the Popes faith. And whereas there were two Bishops of Alexandria at that time, 
Ruf. li. 11. cap. 3.  the one whose name was Peter holding with the bishop of Rome, the other name Lucius not so: Theodosius commanded his subiectes to believe as Peter did, who followed the first Peter and Damasus the Bishop of Rome.  
Touching the third general council, it was kept in dede under Theodosius the younger at Ephesus. 
In the third general council cyril was president for and in the stede of Celestinus B. of Rome.  But he was not supreme head there. Yea rather who knoweth not that Cyrillus being himself patriarch of Alexandria, yet was president at Ephesus bearing the stede and person of Pope coelestine? If cyril was in stede of the Bishop of Rome there president, who may doubt, but that he was supreme head of the church, in whose name the president sate? Doth the president of the queens majesties counsel use to sit at her counsel in the name of any other inferior person? If Theodosius were supreme and chief, why sate not cyril in his name as president? But seing that Photius writeth, and 
Lib. 14. c. 34.  Nicephorus also, that cyril archbishop of Alexandria sate in the stede of coelestine Pope of Rome over that council kept at Ephesus, undoubtedly it can not be denied, but that coelestine was supreme head as well of the church, as of the general council.  
It is not therefore only to be considered, that Theodosius sent abroad his messengers to summon the fathers to the general council, but also it is to be considered, by whose authority it was done. If in our time it had pleased the Emperour ferdinand of famous memory to haue sent his messengers to the kings and princes of spain, france, England, hungary, Bemelande, Pole, and to the estates and dukes of italy and germany, to summon them to the council which the Pope thought good to indict at Trent: I think verily the Pope would haue thancked the Emperour for it, and himself should haue saved so much charges, as men of experience know such an enterprise to require. But now sith the Pope hath of his own sufficient to bear the charges of such affairs, he asketh not any more of the Emperour such expenses, as in old time to that necessary purpose by the Emperours were allowed.  

The fourth general council how was it called and summoned by Marcian.  Last of all Marcian( say you) called the fourth general council at Chalcedon. We answer. He called it not in such sort as ye mean, to wit, as supreme head and ruler thereof, but as one able to send messengers for the bishops about the world, and to sustain the charges, also willing to see peace and concord in the church of God. Who list to read the epistles of Pope lo to Pulcheria the Emperesse, to Marcian himself, to Theodosius, to flavianus archbishop of Constantinople, to the synod first assembled at Ephesus, afterward for certain causes at Chalcedon: in the same epistles he may see both the cause of the council, and what conference was had thereof with the said lo bishop of Rome, who sent first to Ephesus, julianus a bishop, Renatus a priest, and Hilarius a deacon, and afterward to Chalcedon, Paschasinus and Lucentius Bishops, and Bonifacius a priest, to represent his person. In one of the said epistles written to the second synod at Ephesus, 
Epist. 15.  lo saith thus. Religiosissima clementissimi principis fides &c. The most religious faith of our most clement prince knowing it to pertain chiefly to his renome, 
Lo themrour useth the authority of the see apostolic to bring to effect a holy purpose.  if within the catholic church no branch of error spring, hath deferred this reverence to Gods ordinances, as to use the authority of the see apostolic to acheue the effect of a holy purpose, as though he were desirous by the most blessed Peter himself, that to be declared, which in his confession was praised. By which words it is plain, that in matters of religion the Emperour proceeded not vpon his own head, but was directed by the see of Peter. What shall I say more?  
If the Emperour first Christened the Pope, let the Emperour be superior in things to Godward. But if the Pope christened the Emperour,( as sylvester did Constantine) let the spiritual father in that degree of rule be above the spiritual child.  
And when Rufine the heretic had alleged for authority, 
apology.  a council which as he thought should make for him: Hierom his adversary to confute him, Tell us( quod he) what Emperour commanded that council to be called? The same jerome again in his epitaph vpon Paula, maketh mention of the Emperours letters, which gave commandment to call the bishops of italy and Grecia to Rome to a council.  

Confutation.  Besides that ye do strangely to call Rufine an heretic, we say, that S. jerome might well demand, what Emperour summoned that council, which was never summoned. again we confess that some Emperours haue summoned both latin and greek bishops. But ye prove not, that any did it as supreme head, and as judge in matters of religion, but by the consent of the bishops of Rome, as I haue declared before.  

apology  Continually for the space of five hundred yeres, the Emperour alone appointed the ecclesiastical assemblies, and called the councils of the bishops together.  
We now therefore marvel the more at the unreasonable dealing of the Bishop of Rome, who knowing what was the Emperours right when the church was well ordered, knowing also that it is now a common right to all Princes, for so much as kings are now fully possessed in the several partes of the whole Empire, doth so without consideration assign that office alone to himself, and taketh it sufficient in summoning a general council, to make a man that is prince of the whole world no otherwise partaker thereof then he would make his own servant.  

Confutation. The Emperour appointed not councils alone. But by the aduise and will of the bishops.  When you say the Emperour alone appointed thecclesiasticall assemblies, and the councils of bishops together, you put in the word( alone) more then ever you proved. We haue shewed out of thecclesiasticall history, that he did it ex sacerdotum sententia, by determination of the priestes. Therefore he did it not alone. We haue alleged out of lo, that to theffect of that which was holily disposed and purposed, the authority of the see apostolic was adhibited. And yet you say, the Emperour alone called councils.  
Where you add the Emperour alone celebrated, kept, or held councils, for so is your latin, it is to impudently faced without any face, without proof, without truth. They were celebrated or holden by the Popes legates, the patriarkes, and bishops, and not by Emperours. Albeit Emperours might sit in them, but not as iudges. And they haue ever ben called Episcopalia Concilia, not Imperatoria, 
councils be of bishops not of Emperours.  councils of bishops, not of Emperours. And diverse councils not accounted general were kept by bishops before any Emperour was Christened. As those, which were kept by S. Peter in jerusalem mentioned in the acts of the Apostles: 
Acto. 15.  in the time of Victor the Pope in Palestina, and other places, concerning the keeping of Easter: 
councils kept by bishops before Emperours were christened.  At Rome about the time of Pope Fabian against the novatian heresy: At antioch against Paulus Samosatenus, and many others. All which councils were kept not only without the presence of the Emperours person, but also without his power or authority. And yet if he were head of the church, it could not haue ben done without him.  
If you say he was not then christened, I answer that christianity is no parte of his imperial power. It is a spiritual power. whereby he is made the son of God. He may thereby be ruled by a christian bishop. But verily he hath no power given to him, whereby he may rule bishops. baptism maketh a man the child of the church. 
Emperours were not the holders of councils the first five hundred yeres.  But it is Imposition of hands in consecrating a christian priest to be a bishop, that giveth him rule over others, and not the sacrament of baptism. Therefore Emperours were not the holders or keepers of councils the first five hundred yeares. Yea three hundred were fully expired, before the Emperour professed openly the christian faith. So much the less may you marvel, that now the bishop of Rome calleth and keepeth councils chieflly by his own authority. For he succeedeth Peter, not Nero. He took his authority of Christ immediately, not of the people of Rome. Be the Emperour Christian, or not Christian, the bishop of Rome by nature of his bishops office, is not only always a christian man, but also a chief priest.  
Where you say the bishop of Rome in summoning the late council did besides good consideration, in that he made a man that is Prince of the whole world, no otherwise partaker thereof, 
The Defender either forgetteth himself, or careth little what he say. Contradiction.  then he would make his own seruant: you forget yourself foully, and seem to reck little what you speak, so you utter your malice. For who is that whom you call Prince of the whole world? What contradiction is this? said you not in the same sentence before, that kings are now fully possessed in the several partes of the whole Empire? How then call you ferdinand Prince of the whole world? Well this is but one of the common ornaments of your rhetoric. sir the Emperour ferdinand of famous memory was not so abused of pus the fourth that blessed man bishop of Rome in these our dayes. Ye rather are they who abuse the Emperours majesty. For ye depose him clean from his seat, ye find fault that ever lo the third made an Emperour in the West. Ye complain openly that the imperial majesty had not contynewed still at Constantinople. belike to the intent the turk might now haue had it, wko is known to suffer in his dominions all faiths, and religions, for which cause it may seem, ye fauer him. As for Pope pus that now is, he deferred the old privilege of honour unto the Emperour ferdinand without the old burden. For whereas in old times councils were holden by authority of the Pope, as Socrates witnesseth, 
Li. 8. c. 2.  yet the Emperour bare the charge of calling the bishops together. But now the Pope himself bare a great part of that burden, and communicated his purpose fully with the Emperour.  
Furthermore ye would, sith that all Christian Princes are now come to the possession of the several partes of the Empire, that they also should haue right to call councils. 
The mark which the defenders shoot at is, that there may never be any general council at al.  It may sone be judged what ye mean by this matter. Ye would that if any Christen Prince would withstand the calling of it in his own dominion for his own part, it should be no general council at all. By which means it should come to pass, that forasmuch as so many Princes would hardly agree all together, there should never lightly be any general council. Which were a great commodity for you. For so should your heresies be blasted abroad without control.  
may it please you to understand, 
The Pope maketh all Christen Princes priuey to the calling of every general council.  there is no catholic Prince in christendom,( who would suffer himself to be spoken withall) but pus the Pope made him partaker of the calling of the Tridentine council. They sent their ambassadors unto it, as it appeareth in the acts of the same. Ye only that haue stayed certain Princes from sending thither, are guilty of all the division and schism, which now Christes church is lamentably troubled withall.  
And although the modesty and mildness of the Emperour ferdinand be so great that he can bear this wrong, 
apology  because peradventure he understandeth not well the Popes packing, yet ought not the Pope of his holiness to offer him that wrong, nor to claim as his own an other mans right.  
If the Emperour ferdinand understood not the sleights of the Pope which in dede were none, 
Confutation.  how shewed he his modesty and mildness in bearing the wrong, which he knew not to be a wrong? If he knew no wrong done to him, because in dede none was done: then you are to busy to meddle in a matter, which you know not. Is it to be thought that the Emperour with his grave and wise counsellors knew not what he had to do, but that you must show him that he had wrong?  

apology Hist Eccli li. 1. cap. 5.  But hereto some will reply: the Emperour in deed called councils at that time ye speak of, because the bishop of Rome was not yet grown so great as he is now, but yet the emperour didde not then sit together with the bishops in council, or once bare any stroke with his authority in their consultation. I answer nay, that it is not so. For as witnesseth Theodorete, Themperour Constantine sate not only together with them in the council at Nice, but gave also advice to the bishops howe it was best to try out the matter by the Apostles and prophetes writings, as appeareth by these his own words. In disputation( saith he) of matters of divinity, wee haue set before us to follow the doctrine of the holy ghost. For the evangelists and the Apostles works, and the Prophetes sayings show us sufficiently what opinion wee ought to haue of the will of God.   

THE THIRTINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  The ability of the Pope in dede is such now, as he may right well bear the charges of sending messengers to Christian Princes inviting and calling them and their clergy to general councils. But the right of calling was all one, when the Pope was most poor. For the sitting of Emperours in councils, you treat a common place not necessary. No man ever denied, but Emperours may sit in them. But we aclowledge two sorts of sitting, one for the assessors, an other for the judge. No Emperour ever sate as a judge in council, 
Emperours sit not in councils as iudges, but as assistants.  but many both Emperours in person and their lieutenauntes for them haue satin, as being ready to assist and defend that, which the bishops had judged and decreed.  
Yea but say you, Constantine spake and gave his aduise in the Nicene council. Neither that do we deny. But we deny that he was judge. Many lay men to this day be present at the Sessions of general councils, yea who be no Princes ambassadors. All orators and ambassadors may not only sit there, but also give their aduise. But our question is of iudgement, of giving definitive sentence, which you prove not. The maisters of the chancery sit you know, and give aduise, but the lord chancellor iudgeth and giveth sentence. Thus you show your busy copy in that which is not denied, and your quiet stillness in the principal point of the matter.  
What maner a seat great Constantine had in the first council at Nice, Eusebius is his life, 
In vita Constant. Lib. 3. Theodorit. Li. 1. c. 7.  and Theodoritus doth declare. After that all the bishops were set in their seats to the number of 318. in came the Emperour last with a small company. A low little chair being set for him in the midst, he would not set down before the bishops had reverently signified so much unto him, and as Theodoritus writeth, 
{αβγδ}.  not before he had desired the bishops to permit him so to do. Now think you that the supreme head of the church should haue come in last, and haue satin beneath his subiectes, and haue stayed to sit, until they had as it were given him leave?  
Neither consulted he with the bishops, but required them to consult of the matters they came for, as Theodorite witnesseth. Neither spake he there so generally as you report, 
Constantine referred the fathers of the Nicene council to the scriptures, not for knowledge of Gods will, but of the godhead.  nor framed his tale in that sort as you fain, universally of the will of God, but of the godhead, saying that the books of the gospels, and of the Apostles, and the Oracles of the Prophetes do plainly teach us, what we ought to think of the godhead, {αβγδ}. For the controversy about which the Arians made so much ado was touching the equality of godhead in Christ, and his consubstantiality with God the father. And by those words and other which there he uttered, he took not vpon him to define or judge, but only to exhort them to agree together in one faith. For among those bishops certain there were that favoured the heresy of Arius. Such examples you bring for defence of your part, as make much against you. Not that you delight in making a rod for yourself, but because you haue no better, and somewhat must you needs say, lest the stage you play your part on should stand still.  

apology  The Emperour Theodotius( as saith Socrates) didde not onely sit amongst the Byshoppes, but allo ordered the whole arguinge of the cause, and tare in pieces the heretics books, and allowed for good the judgement of the catholics.  

Confutation.  It is a wonder to see how these men abuse thecclesiasticall histories. Whereas they talk a little before of the sitting of Emperours in general Councells, a man would think, that now also Theodosius had ben said to haue satin among bishops in some general council. But there is no such matter. 
Hist. tripa●t. lib. 9. cap. 19. The conference of Theodosius with Nectarius for suppressing heresies. The witty aduise of Sisinnius.  Theodosius the Emperour conferred with Nectarius the bishop of Constantinople, how all Christen men might be brought to an unity in faith. And after that Nectarius had learned of Sisinnius a great clerk the best way to be, if all the heads of each heresy and sect might be induced to be judged by the old fathers and doctors of the church: the godly Emperour hearing this aduise, caused both the heretics and catholics also to writ each of them such things, as each of them had to say for his belief. And after prayer made reading over all the writings, he rejected the Arians, the Macedonians, and the Eunomians, embracing only their sentence, who agreed vpon the consubstantiality of the son of God. Here( say these Defenders) Theodosius did not only sit amongst the bishops, but also ordered the whole arguing of the cause, tearing the papers of the heretics, 
Theodosius did not the part of a judge in conferring with Nectarius.  and allowing the iudgement of the catholics. To which objection I make this answer. First that Theodosius here took council of Nectarius the bishop, and followed it. secondly that he intended not to judge whether opinion of all the sects were truer, but only sought how to rid the church of controversies. Otherwise he would not only haue taken counsel of Nectarius the catholic bishop, but also of the Arians, Macedonians, and Eunomians. For he is not a right judge, that calleth one side only to him, and in iudgement is ruled by it.  
If then it be plain, that the Emperour only consulted with catholics, it is no less plain, that he sate not judge vpon the catholics. What did he then? verily he intended to execute that iudgement, which the bishops had pronounced at Nice, and therefore he conferred only with men of that side. And because he was instructed, that by disputation no good should come, he choose this way, to make all to writ their opinions. Not that he minded now to learn his faith out of their writings, sith he had learned that long before, and professed the same in his baptism: but he sought a way whereby to put all heretics to silence. Therefore having read all the writings, and having made his prayer to God for grace to choose the better side, which also he made not doubting of his faith( for else he were an infidel and unworthy to be a judge even in the temporal matters among Christians) but partly he declared that al goodness is to be asked of God, 
jacob. 1. 1. cor. 6.  partly he would the heretics to understand, that he went not to work with affection, but with the fear of God. Thus having prayed and readen the writings, he executed the iudgement of the Nicene council, and rejected those heretics. If the Emperour Maximilian would likewise by the counsel of a catholic bishop seek a way how to execute with most quiet the Tridentine council, and how to end all sects in germany: the Pope will think by that fact his authority nowhitte preiudicated.  
Now to return to the words of the apology, how say they that the Emperour not only sate among bishops, but also causae desceptationi praefuit, 
The treaty between Theodosius and Nectarius and other was not a council.  was chief ruler and moderator of the reasoning and debating of the matter? They can not say thus, as of a council, whereof they talk. For there was no council indicted, not only by the Pope, but neither by the Emperour, nor by any other archbishop. It was a private calling together of certain heads of each sect, and not a solemn ordinary council. If there were no council of bishops, no sitting of bishops, if no sitting, no presidence at all. how then was Theodosius president and judge of ecclesiastical causes?  
If we shall report the thing, as it was in truth done, only Theodosius used a politic way to put heretics to silence. Other iudgement he took not vpon him, as he that protested always, 
In acts concilij Aquileiensis.  that spiritual causes and controversies of doctrine could not better be decided, then by bishops. For which saying S. Ambrose praised him. So that we are sure of Theodosius, that he never meant to intermeddle with ecclesiastical matters, otherwise then to execute the bishops decrees.  

apology  In the council at Chalcedone a civil magistrate condemned for heretics by the sentence of his own mouth, the bishops Dioscorus, funeral, and Thalasius, and gave iudgement to put them down from that promotion in the church.   

THE FOVRTINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  Where true and good matter wanteth for defence of this cause, these men care not what they bring, so they make a s●ewe of some learning to deceive the vnlerned. First for condemnation of heretics by sentence of a civil magistrate, they allege the name of the long council of Chalcedon, not showing in what action or part thereof it may be found. True it is, that all these three are name in that council, Dioscorus, Iuuenalis, and Thalassius. But that all three were condemned, we find not. Much less that they were condemned by any civil magistrate do we find. The condemnation of Dioscorus archbishop of Alexandria was pronounced by the legates of the Pope of Rome in form as followeth. 
The form of Dioscurus condemnation. Act. 3.   
Paschasinus having asked the consent of the fathers present in the council to the condemnation of Dioscorus, after his faults rehearsed, with his two fellowes Lucentius bishop of Tusculane and Bonifacius priest of the great church of Rome, said. The most holy and blessed archbishop of the great and elder Rome lo, by us, and by this present holy synod, with the thrice most blessed and worthy of all praise Peter the Apostle, who is the rock and highest top of the catholic church, and who is the foundation of the right faith, hath deprived Dioscorus as well of the dignity of his bishopric, 
Dioscorus was not condemned by the civil magistrate.  as also of his priestly ministery. This was the sentence pronounced by the Popes legates in the name of the bishop of Rome, under the authority of Peter. which sentence the whole council allowed. This being true, how did the civil magistrate condemn Dioscorus? Was then the bishop of Lilibaeum, or the Pope in whose name he gave sentence, a civil magistrate? What is impudency, what is licentious lying, what is deceitful dealing, if this be not?  
Of Iuuenalis archbishop of jerusalem, and Thalassius archbishop of caesarea in Cappadocia, this much I say. They might well haue a rebuk for misusing themselves in the second council at Ephesus, 
Acto. 1. e● noua translat.  where they sate like iudges without authority of the see of Rome( which as Lucentius said in the synod of Chalcedon was never orderly done neither was it lawful to be done) they might I say take a rebuk for so presuming besides the Popes authority: but forasmuch as they maintained not their fact, but among other bishops of the East cried out, omnes peccauimus, omnes veniam postulamus, we haue all sinned, we all b●sech pardon: yea forasmuch as Iuuenalis rejected the fault vpon Elpidius, who did not command Eusebius the accuser of Eutyches to come in, and Thalassius said, he was not cause thereof: it may well be, they were pardonned, although the honourable iudges and senate said unto them, in judicio fidei non est defensio, in a iudgement of faith this is no excuse. But in case they were deposed, then are we sure, it was not done by the civil magistrates otherwise, then that they might allow and execute the sentence of deposition before given.  

apology  In the third council at Constantinople, Constantine a civil Magistrate, did not onely sit amongst the Byshops, but did also subscribe with them: For saith he, we haue both red and subscribed.  

Confutation.  The subscribing is not the matter, but the judging. Constantine subscribed to the council, as now all Christen Princes being required ought to subscribe to the Tridentine council. But Constantine used not this style when he subscribed, 
The form of subscription of bishops.  Definiens subscripsi, I haue subscribed with giving definitive sentence. for so to subscribe it appertained only to bishops.  

apology  In the second council called Arausicanum, the Princes ambassadors being noble men born, not only speak their mind touching religion, but set to their hands also, as well as the bishops. For thus is it written in the later end of that council, Petrus, Marcellinus, Felix and Liberius, being most noble men, and famous Lieutenauntes and Capitaines of france, and also peers of the realm, haue given their consent, and set to their hands. Further, Syagrius, Opilio, Pantagattus, Deodatus, Cariattho and Marcellus, men of very great honour haue subscribed.  

Confutation. lay men may subscribe to a council as consenting, not as judging.  What if all the lay men of the world had subscribed by the word of consenting or agreeing to the Bishops decrees, each one writing thus, as in that case the old maner was, consentiens subscripsi? What other thing is proved thereby, then that they thought it necessary to allow that which bishops had determined? Which we wish ye would do.  
If it be so then, that Lieutenauntes, 
apology  chief Capitaines and peers haue had authority to subscribe in council, haue not Emperours and kings the like authority?  
kings and queens not only might, 
Confutation.  but ought to subscribe, when they are required. And would God queen Elizabeths majesty would subscribe to the late council of Trent. I am sure all the bishops of christendom would not only not be against it, but heartily rejoice and praise God for it. But to subscribe and define matters contrary to any lawful general council, that is a thing for which an account must be given to God at his strait iudgement, if it be not prevented by penance.  
Truly there had been no need to handle so plain a matter as this is, with so many words and so at length, 
apology  if wee had not to do with those men who for a desire they haue to strive and to win the mastery, use of course to deny all things be they never so clear, yea the very same which they presently see and behold with their own eyes.  
The matter ye speak of is so clear, 
Confutation.  that from the beginning of the world to this day, no secular prince can be name, who by the ordinary power of a prince without the gift of prophecy or special revelation, did laudably intermeddle with religion as a judge and ruler of spiritual causes. 
Why secular princes may not intermeddle as iudges in spir●tuall causes.  The reason thereof is clear. Religion is an order of divine worshipping belonging to God only, whereupon no man hath power, but he that is called thereto by God. He is called in the iudgement of men, who can show his calling owtwardly, as by consecration and imposition of hands priestes and bishops are called to be the dispensatours of the mysteries of God. 
Mat. 16.&. 18.  In that consecration the keys of knowledge and discretion, the power of binding and losing is given. If a secular prince can not show the keys given to him, how dareth he adventure to break up rather then to open the clasped book of God, the door of the church, and the gates of the kingdom of heaven? Wherefore S. Ambrose said unto Valentinian, 
Lib. 5. epist. 32.  quando audiuisti Imperator in causa fidei Laicos de episcopo iudicasse? When hast thou heard Emperour Lay men to haue ben iudges of a bishop in the cause of faith? And yet now these men think that which S. Ambrose never heard of, not only to haue ben used continually the first five hundred yeres after Christes birth, but also to be as clear a matter, as if we beholded it with our eyes.  

apology  The Emperour justinian made a law to correct the behaviour of the clergy, and to cut short the insolency of the priestes. And albeit he were a Christian and a catholic prince, yet put he down from their papal Throne, twooe Popes, Syluerius and Vigilius, not withstanding they were Peters successors, and Christes vicars.  

Confutation.  Iustinians lawe concerning good order to be kept among priestes morally was good, and bound them by the force of reason. If he made any other lawe touching matters of religion, Pope joannes then being, approved it, or at the lest justinian asked approbation thereof, 
In Codice Iustinianco epist. ad joan pp.  as it may appear in his own epistle, wherein he confesseth in the fact itself, that his laws could not bind in supernatural causes belonging to faith, except the head of the universal church confirm thē. Syluerius and Vigilius were deposed 
Syluerius and Vigilius deposed.  rather by Theodora the Emperesse, then by justinian the Emperour. Ye do wrong to impute that wicked tyranny unto him. He is not to be burdened therwith, unless the man be countable for his wives iniquities. 
The case of Syluerius and Vigilius.  The case is this. Anthemius bishop of Constantinople was by the Pope joannes condemned for the heresy of Eutyches. For the which justinian deprived him of his bishopric, and placed in his rome Menna a catholic bishop consecrated by Pope Agapetus then being at Constantinople. After whose death Theodora being a great maintainer of the Entychians, practised with Syluerius who succeeded Agapetus, to restore Anthemius the heretic to his bishopric again. Which when he had refused to do, she wrote to captain Bellisarius then keeping war for the Emperour against the goths, to depose Syluerius, and to set vigilius, with whom she had conferred before for the restitution of Anthemius, in the see of Rome. Bellisarius, whether it were for that he was loth in conscience to satisfy her devilish request, or otherwise encombered with the affairs of war, committed the whole to Antonina his wife. between them the matter was so handled, as Syluerius gave over all, and sustained banishment, such tyranny heretics use.  
Vigilius succeeded with whom Theodora was instant, that he would come to Constantinople and restore Anthemius. But when he had refused to do it, for that he was an heretic, and justly deposed, she found the means such things should be laid to his charge, as he thought it expedient, he went to Constantinople there to clear himself. Being arrived there, and having denied the Emperesse her request touching the restitution of Anthemius, forthwith after much villainy and cruelty done unto him, he was cast into prison, where a long time he was kept with bread and water, and at length set at liberty at request made for him by the Romaines, and sent home. In that journey before he returned to Rome, he died by the way at Syracusa in sicily.  
This is that whole process in few touching the injurious vexation of Syluerius and Vigilius. Wherein yf justinian were guilty, he hath the greater account to make for it. How so ever it was, that extraordinary violence and tyranny can not justly be alleged to the defence of your false assertion. Neither would yourself haue mentioned the same, if ye could haue found better matter. As hungry dogges eat dirty puddinges, according to the proverb clean enough for such unclean writers, so your fowle matters be defended by fowle facts.  

apology  let us see then, such men as haue authority over the bishops, such men as receive from God commandments concerning Religion, such as bring home again the ark of God, make holy hymns, oversee the priests, build the Temple, make Orations touching divin service, cleanse the Temples, destroy thehil altars, burn the idols groves, teach the priests theri dwetie, writ them out precepts how they should live, kill the wicked Prophetes, displace the high priests, call together the councils of Byshops, sit together with the Byshoppes, instructing them what they ought to do, condemn and punish an heretical bishop, be made acquainted with matters of Religion, which subscribe and give sentence, and do al these things, not by an other mans Commission, but in their own name, and that both uprightly and godly: Shall we say it pertaineth not to such men to haue to do with Religion? Or shall wee say, a Christian Magistrate which dealith amongst others in these matters doth either naughtelie, or presumpteouslye, or wickedlye? The most ancient and Christian emperors and kings that ever were, didde busy themselves with these matters, and yet were they never for this cause noted either of wickedness or of presumption. And what is he that can find out either more catholic princes or more notable examples?   

THE FIFTINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  Now then kings and Emperours, who haue their first authority by the positive lawe of nations, not by supernatural grace from God as priestes haue: who can haue no more power then the people hath, of whom they take their temporal jurisdiction: who ever haue ben obedient to the priestes and Bishops, whom God hath set over his church, whereof Christen princes are a part: who never could do sacrifice, because it is an higher office: who served the Bishops and priestes in building altars and churches for them: who haue ever ben anoincted and blessed by Bishops, who so ever blesseth being greater then he that is blessed: who always haue executed the priestes decrees in matters of faith: who haue defended and not ruled the church: who saw that lawe of nature kept outwardly, which the priest purgeth and cleanseth inwardly: who must come themselves to the priestes for the holy scriptures, and take them at their hands: who must desire them to pray and offer sacrifice for them, who were baptized of them: who must come to confess their sins, if they will be assoiled: who may with the assent of the chief Bishop call, but not rule general councils: who may subscribe to that which is defined, but not prescribe, what shall be defined in spiritual causes: who received the earthly sword of God, and not the keys of heaven: who the better they are, the more like priestes they be: whose spiritual priesthood which they take in baptism, is of more dignity, then the temporal certainty which they haue in the world: who if they haue deposed bishops, haue ben blamed for it: who may command an heretic to be burned, but not decide what is heresy: shall we say, that such kings and Emperours haue authority to rule the church, whose sons they are? To be supreme heads over them, whom they ought to kneel unto for absolution? To control their spiritual iudges, whom if they sin by humane frailty, they ought to cover with their cloaks, as the great Constantine said, to degrade them, of whom they must be baptized, anoincted, crwoned, and buried? verily good kings and Emperours will submit their sceptres to the holy ghosts ordinance, 
Act. 20.  by whom Bishops( as S. Paul saith) are appointed to govern the church of God. From the contrary pride and disobedience they are frayed by the example of Saul, Hieroboam, Ozias, Herodes, and other the like, who preferred their kingly power on earth, above the priestly power, which is given from heaven. Whom what king or Emperour so ever followeth, he may look for the same measure of punishment, which they had.  

apology  Wherefore yf it were lawful for them to do thus being but civil Magistrates, and having the chief rule of common weals, what offence haue our Princes at this day made, which may not haue leave to do the like, being in the like degree? Or what especial gift of learning or of judgement, or of holynes, haue these men now, that contrary to the custom of all the ancient and catholic Byshoppes, who used to confer with princes and peers concerning religion, they do now thus reject and cast of Christian Princes from knowing of the cause, and from their meetings?  

Confutation.  It is a thing worthy to be noted good reader, that where these Defenders haue so long wearied themselves in going about to prove that secular princes may be iudges in matters of religion: all this while they can not bring one text for themselves, nor any thing of weight besides the examples of certain Princes. Wherein they show how slenderly they reason. Because they are not assured, ne can not lightly be, that the example they allege is like unto that they would prove. For many circumstances are in every fact, every of which altereth and changeth the case. If it had ben written in an old chronicle that queen Marye deprived Cranmer of the bishopric of canterbury, and these men had fallen vpon that place there is no doubt but thereby they would haue proved, that queen Marye had taken vpon her to judge, condemn, and depose Bishops. And yet had the chronicle ben true, and the proof false. For she may be said to depose them, whom she causeth to be deposed, or to whose deposing she consenteth. And yet the truth was, that the iudgement of him was referred unto the Pope, and consequently unto his legate.  
again admit some of the examples to be true, 
particular acts as Princes against right and order make not a lawe in general.  that some princes otherwise not evil, haue done some act in matters of faith, above the power of their princely state, are we bound forthwith to follow that act? He that will reason soundly, must haue a sure ground, and then apply his examples to make that plain, which otherwise is true. For who knoweth not that the weakest kind of reasoning is by examples? If they will ground their disputation strongly, let them show where a king receiveth the authority to decide controversies of faith. 
jacob. 1.  For seing every good thing is given from above, it is impossible for a prince to haue a thing of so great importance, that cometh not from heaven, and in that case it is not enough for one to say, I haue it, but it must be shewed, how it is gotten, and when it is received. 
mat. 16.  Peter had the keys of the kingdom of heaven given him, when it was said unto him, feed my lambs, feed my sheep. All the Apostles were made iudges, 
joan. 2●.  when it was said, what so ever ye bind or loose in earth, 
Mat. 18. luke. 10.  it shall be bound and loosed also in heaven. And he that heareth you, heareth me, he that despiseth you, despiseth me. 
Act. 15.  And they decided a question concerning the lawe, how far the gentiles should be bound to observe the old Lawe. The Pope succeedeth Peter, other bishops succeed the other Apostles, 
In epist. de. ret.  as Anacletus hath declared, and experience witnesseth. Therefore we show how bishops come to be iudges in matters of faith. 
Though Princes ought to be obeied, yet may they not be iudges in causes of faith.  Let us see where kings haue that power given to them.  
In the new testament we red none other but that they must be obeied, and that as caesar was to be obeied. When Christ said give to C●sar, that belongeth to caesar, and to God that appertaineth to God. Where a plain distinction is made between caesar and God. 
luke. 20.  To caesar belongeth paying of tribute, concluding of war or peace, judging of lands, of possessions, and of all civil causes. But in matters of faith we never heard, where caesar took any power to judge and define. Now therefore we answer, it was never lawful in any temporal prince to judge in causes of Religion. Neither did any prince before this time ever use it.  
If ye require only that princes be made acquainted with these matters, the same in dew order was never denied. Yea the Pope at this day maketh princes priuey to them and partakers of them, as in old time it was wont to be. And who knoweth not, that our holy father pus the fourth now Pope did to the Emperour ferdinand that honour, as to sand unto his majesty from this last council at Trent, cardinal Morone being chief legate in the same, to confer with him about the affairs of the church? Yet that conference proveth not, that the Emperour could be judge in the cause. It was rather to move him to good execution of the bishops decrees, then to learn of him, or ask his aduise what should be decreed.  
Neither haue bishops by their holynes or learning, that they be iudges, but by their jurisdiction and keys. They ought to be learned and holy, 
Sith Christ faileth not his church in things necessary, we need not mistrust the lack of necessary ministers. Ephes. 4.  if some be not, it is their fault: yet some be, and shall be to the worlds end. For Christ forsaketh not his church, nor faileth in things necessary, as often times we haue said. Therfore he placeth in his church some Apostles, some evangelists, others prophetes, and other some foresees and teachers, to the edifying of his body which is the church, until we meet all together in unity of faith, that from henceforth we be no more children wavering and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the wilynes of men and craftiness, whereby they lay await for unto deceive vs. All this requireth good learning and wisdom, as experience teacheth. And therefore, rail ye never so much at the ignorance of bishops, the church shall ever haue learned and wise bishops. For the word of the holy ghost uttered by S. Paul can not be false. Neither can Christ fail of his providence or promise made in that behalf.  
Well thus doing, 
apology  they wisely and warelye provide for themselves and for their kingdom, which otherwise they see is like shortly to come to nought. For if so be, they whom God hath placed in greatest dignity, didde see and perceive these mennes practices, how Christes commandments be despised by them, how the light of the gospel is darkened and quenched out by them, and how themselves also be subtly begiled and mocked and vnwares be deluded by them, and the way to the kingdom of heaven stopped up before them, no doubt they would never so quietly suffer themselves neither to be disdained after such a proud sort, nor so despitefully to be scorned and abused by them. But now through their own lack of understanding, and through their own blindness, these men haue them fast yoked and in their danger.  
Bishops can not uphold their kingdom by wrong doing, that is the way to pull them down. 
Confutation.  Therefore we are well assured that your schismatical superintendentship can not stand, though all the power of the world were bent to hold it up. Your wicked state is not planted of God, and therefore it shalbe rooted out. It is God that ruleth, it is God that setteth up, and putteth down. This state of Christes church hath continued, and the sucessour of Peter hath governed it, whereas the groundless building of all the heretics from Simon Magus downward to this day hath failed. If this power had not ben built vpon a sure rock, it had fallen down er this. Now what is that holdeth it up? 
The continuance of Peters faith and See.  Can mans policy withstand God? Is the Pope so high because himself will be so? If will might serve, lacked Luther a mind to haue ben as high as he? Luther is rotten, and his new found religion decayed, and the Pope sitteth in Peters chair, and so shall his successors to the end. The faith of that see shall not fail, no more then theffect of his prayer, who said, 
luke. 22.  I haue prayed for thee Peter, that thy faith fail not.  
Ye would men to believe, that Emperours and kings are deceived by the Popes and Bishops. But I pray you, what is the cause, that princes can not espy these deceits( if any such were) as well as ye? If themselves lack your knowledge, yet haue they wise men about them, who for their duties sake and their allegiance to them, would sone advertise them, how by the bishops they be subtly beguiled and mocked.  
Where ye say that the catholic prelates haue princes fast yoked and in their danger through their own lack of understanding, and through their own blindness: what would ye that by the knowledge of your gospel all were set at liberty? 
After what sort be Christen princes deceived. through lack of knowledge of the new gospel.  Be all princes through lack of your knowledge fast yoked, that throw not down the abbaies, colleges, and hospitals in their dominions? That leave the furnitures of churches to serve to the honour of God, and convert them not to their own commodity? That humbly aclowledge themselves the children of the church, not the iudges of the church? That keep their wedlock religiously, and change not their wives after the new guise of your gospel? Briefly( for who can say all) that keep themselves and their people in the fear of God, professing only the ancient received faith, and suffer not the bridle to be given to all looseness of life and fancies of new found religions? Thus to be deceived, thus to be mocked, thus to be beguiled, thus to be deluded, thus to be disdained, thus to be scorned, and thus to be abused( for this is the copy of your terms) wise and godly princes are content.  
We truly for our partes as we haue said, 
apology  haue done nothing in altering religion, either vpon rashness or arrogancy, nor nothing but with good leisure and great consideration. Neither had we ever intended to do it, except both the manifest and most assured will of God opened to us in his holy scriptures, and the regard of our own salvation had even constrained us thereunto. For though we haue departed from that church which these men call catholic, and by that means get us envy amongst them that want skill to judge, yet is this enough for us, and it ought to be enough for every wise and good man, and one that maketh account of everlasting life, that we haue gone from that church which had power to err, which Christ, who can not err, told so long before it should err, and which we ourselves did evidently see with our eyes to haue gon both from the holy Fathers and from the Apostles, and from Christ his own self and from the primitive and catholic church: and wee are come as nere as we possibly could to the Church of the Apostles and of the old catholic Byshops and Fathers, which church we know hath hetherunto ben sound and perfit, and as Tertullian termeth it, a pure virgin spotted as yet with no idolatry, nor with any soul or shameful fault: and haue directed according to their customs and ordinances not onely our doctrine, but also the Sacraments and the form of common prayer.   

THE SIXTINTH CHAPTER.  
Hitherto haue ye said all that your learning gave you to say for temporal princes to take vpon them the office of bishops, and to define matters of religion. 
Confutation.  Which point as it is most contrary to reason, to custom of the church, to the iudgement of holy fathers, and to the authority of Gods word: so haue ye treated of the same after your accustomend manner, that is to say, with all untruth and lies. Now as though ye had sufficiently proved that great point,( which except it be proved substantially your whole religion must seem to stand vpon a false ground) knowing that the whole sum of it taketh force and authority of lay men assembled in parliament, and of the temporal Prince de fining and ratifying the same: toward the end of your book ye come with many gay words to commend and justify your own doings in altering religion. And here what say ye? Whereto with guilty conscience inwardly ye say yea, thereto with lying tongue outwardly do ye not say nay?  
But O good fathers of our new church, when ye altered religion of fiften hundred yeres settling at your parliament of a few weeks, 
The commen ●ation of the defenders new religion refeled.  was nothing done rashly or arrogantly, but all things with good leisure and great consideration? When short capes and long rapiers bare the swea before long robes and whit rochettes, was nothing done but with great consyderation? When the sober voice of foresees might not be heard for the wilful bleating of sheep, yea when the sheep ouerbare their foresees and sharply boat them, was there nothing done arrogantly? When mo hoar heads were of our side, then hoar hears of your, side was there nothing done rashly? 
The beginning of Martin Luther.  If we shall come to the father of your young primitive church, when Martin Luther was pricked with covetise, anger, hatred, and malice, for that the order of the Augustine friers was put from their ancient preferment of preaching the Pardons in saxony, and John Tetzet the friar Dominicane set up in pulpits before friar martin, for which he forsook his order, his faith, and the church: was then nothing done rashly or arrogantly, but all things with good leisure and great consideration? Can the vehement passion of anger, and the hote affection of hatred work any thing with good leisure and great consideration? I think few wise men are of that iudgement.  
Where ye say that the will of God opened to you in his holy scriptures, and the regard of your own salvation constrained you to change your religion: what more virtue is there in you, for which God should be moved so to open his will unto you, then in all other men for these thousand yeares past? 
This wicked generation cannot be thought worthy of such special grace.  Haue all other men lacked the due regard of their salvation, till the generation came of these loose Apostates, incestuous vowebreakers, sacrilegious churchrobbers, despisers of all holynes, breakers of the dead mens wills, ouerthrowers of all ancient order and discipline? Was there none that could understand the scriptures before the time of your doctors? Hath God taken his grace contrary to his own promise from mankind, till this sinful age came? If it be so, where be your signs, 
Where be your signs and miracles to make credite?  where be your miracles, where be the examples of your rare virtue and holynes? Nay had ye vnderstanded the scriptures rightly, and regarded your salvation duly, ye would never haue attempted this wicked change of religion.  
For excuse of your apostasy and departure from the church ye tkinke it to be enough, that the church might err, and that Christ  told long before it should err, and that yourselves haue sene it err. Now in dede if this be false, then in what danger stand ye? Ye haue said a hundred times the church erreth and yet never proved it, I mean in faith. And were it so it might err, and that Christ foretold it should err, yet how proveth this, that now it erreth? Now neither can the church err, no more then Christes promise of the holy ghosts remaining( who is the spirit of truth) with the church for ever, can fail: 
joan. 14.  nor is that any other then belying of Christ, where ye say, he hath  told long before the church should err. But ye tell us not where Christ hath so told before, neither shall ye ever be able to tell vs. For Christ never said so, but rather the contrary. We must marvell less at your impudency hereafter for belying the fathers, seing now ye belie our saviour Christ himself.  
Where ye grant yourselves to haue departed from that church which doubtless is the church of Christ, for else was Christ without a church these thousand yeres, the same being always by the spirit of truth preserved from error: what need I declare, how far ye are gone from the Apostles, from the old catholic bishops and fathers from the pureness of the primitive church?  

apology  And as we know both christ himself and all good men heretofore haue done, we haue called home again to the original and first foundation that religion which hath ben foully forslowed and utterly corrupted by these men. For wee thought it meet thence to take the pattern of reforminge Religion, from whence the ground of Religion was first taken, because this one reason, as saith the most ancient Father Tertullian, hath great force against all heresies. look what soever was first, that is true: and what soever is latter, that is corrupt. Ireneus oftentimes appealed to the oldest Churches, which had ben completest to Christes time, and which it was heard to believe had erred. But why at this day is not the common respect and consideration had? Why return wee not to the pattern of the old Churches? why may not we hear at this time amongst us the same saying which was openly pronounced in times past in the council at Nice by so many bishops and catholic Fathers, and no body once speaking against it. {αβγδ}: that is to say, hold still the old customs.  

Confutation.  Ye say much in your own commendation, but lies be no proofs. Ye haue not called religion home again to the original and first foundation, as ye say: but ye haue quiter overthrown all true religion from the foundation. As for your apish novelty, ye haue taken the pattern thereof from Satan author of division the ancient enemy of Christ and of his true religion. We admit the saying of Tertullian( though it be not altogether as ye allege it) that this reason hath great force against all heresies. 
Contra Praxeam.  What so ever was first, that is true: what so ever is latter, that is corrupt. Of the blessed sacrament Christ said first, 
Tertullians saying turned vpon the Defenders.  it was his body, so the Apostles taught, so the fathers haue written in one accord. Of late cometh Zuinglius, whom ye follow, and he saith, it is not his body, but a figure and token of his body. By Tertullians rule the first is true, the latter is false. This body Christ offered and sacrificed vnbloudely at his last supper, and gave commandment and commission to the Apostles and priestes their successors in that behalf to do the same, saying, do this in my remembrance. 
luke. 22.  Thus the Apostles taught the church first, thus the old fathers were instructed by the holy ghost at the beginning, as their ancient writings left to the posterity do witness. Luther, Zuinglius, calvin, and ye their scholars our new english clergy teach the contrary, and aclowledge no such kind of sacrifice at all whereby we offer Christ to his father: by your own rule of Tertullian, the doctrine of the church herein is true, as being the first, yours is false and corrupt, as that which is latter, in dede very late and very new, as the rest of your doctrine is. Thus were it easy to go through the partes of all the catholic religion, and showing the same to be first, and your novelties to be late, as inventions of your late maisters, we might conclude with Tertullian that old to be true, this your new to be false and corrupt.  
Ye would seem to be fain that we followed the aduise of Irenaeus. We are content with all our hartes. 
Lib. 3. c 2. That 〈◇〉 adu●s● of Iren●us be followed.  And with Irenaeus we appeal to that tradition, which is from the Apostles, which( as he saith) is kept in the churches by priestes that succeeded them. With Irenaeus leaving other churches, whose successions of bishops it were a long work to rehearse, we require to haue recourse for trial of our faith to the tradition of doctrine of the roman church, which he termeth, greatest, oldest, best known to all, 
Lib. 3. c. 3.  founded and set up by the two most glorious Apostles Peter and Paul. We appeal to the faith of that church taught abroad in the world, and by successions of bishops brought down unto vs. For to this church, saith Irenaeus, must all the church of Christ repair, where so ever it be, for that it is the chief of all, and for that the tradition of the true doctrine, which the Apostles left behind them is there faithfully kept. Wherefore if ye would after the council of Irenaeus resort to Rome for decision of the controversies that be betwixt you and us, and would them to be tried by that sense of doctrine, which hath continued by successions of bishops even from Peter to pus the fourth now Pope, and would stand to the authority of that see apostolic: all strife were ended, we should be at accord. But we haue little hope ye will follow this godly counsel of S. Irenaeus that blessed Martyr whose body your brethren the Huguenotes of fance, 
S. Ireneus relics burned of the Huguenotes at Lions.  vilanously burned at Lions. Anno Domini. 1562. after it had restend there thirten hundred yeres and more.  
But if ye for your part can not show us any apostolic church, wherein your doctrine hath ben professed, kept by the successors of bishops, and from them, as it were from hand to hand to you delivered: then are ye to be suspected of strange doctrine, as teaching besides that ye haue received, then are ye not to be admitted, then ought we not( by the aduise of S. John) to say to any of you so much, 
2. joan.  as hail sir, then ought not the world to believe you though ye were angels coming from heaven. 
The Defenders can show us no succession of their doctrine, no churches, no bishops, no continuance.  Therefore even here we require you( leaving a part your cracks of the scriptures which heretics of al ages haue most insolently made) to show us the churches from whence ye haue received your strange opinion of the sacrament, and other partes of your doctrine there first taught by some Apostle or apostolic man, and by continual successions of bishops brought down from bishop to bishop, from age to age even to these dayes. show us your originals, bring forth your old monuments, set before us the long rolls of your bishops. Whither will ye bring us, to Wittenberg, to Zurich, to Strasburgh, to Frankforde, to basil, to Geneua? Neither in these, nor in any other town, village, hamlet, or corner of the world, where so ever the brokers and factors of your gospel wander and practise for you, haue ye any such succession of bishops, nor scant a company of honest men.  
say ye no more therefore, why at this day is not the aduise of Irenaeus had in respect and consideration? No more shall ye by my read call so hastily vpon us to return to the pattern of the old churches, neither require so confidently that old saw of the Nicene council to be put in practise, {αβγδ}. let old customs prevail. For if old customs might prevail, and were in due force, then were your new toys quiter dashed, then were there never a one of you all that should at this day be called my lord bishop, nor show his face in pulpit, without it were to recant. 
In concilio Nicene.  This am I well able to prove, join issue with me when ye will. If old customs should prevail,( I mean so old as that council is, in which that saying was uttered) O Lord how many good things should christen people see restored and again used, which ye haue abrogated and removed, and how many wicked paulteries should be thrown away, which your new fanglednes hath devised?  
When Esdras went about to repair the ruins of the Temple of God, he sent not to Ephesus, 
apology.  although the most beautiful and gorgeous Temple of Diana was there, and when he purposed to restore the Sacrifices and ceremonies of God, he sent not to Rome, although peradventure he had heard in that place were the solemn Sacrifices called Hecatombae, and other called Solitaurilia, lectisternia, and Supplications, and Numa Pompilius ceremonial books, he thought it enough for him to set before his eyes, and to follow the pattern of the old Temple which Salomon at the beginning builded, according as God had appointed him, and also those old customs and Ceremonies which God himself had written out by special words for Moses.  
The Prophet 
a  Aggous, after the Temple was repaired again by Esdras, and the people might think they had a very just cause to rejoice on their own behalf, for so great a benefit received of almighty God, yet made he them al burst out in tears, because that they which were yet alive, and had sene the former building of the Temple before the Babylonians destroyed it, called to mind how far of it was yet from that beauty and excellency which it had in the old times past before. For then in dead would they haue thought the Temple worthily repaired, if it had answered to the ancient pattern, and to the majesty of the first Temple. 
b  Paul because he would amend the abuse of the lords supper which the Corinthians even then begun to corrupt, he set before them Christes institution to follow, saying: I haue delivered unto you that which I first received of the Lord. And when Christ did confute the error of the Pharisees, Ye must, saith he, return to the first beginning, for from the beginning yt was not thus. 
c  And when he found great fault with the priests for their uncleanness of life and covetousness, and would cleanse the Temple from al evil abuses, This house saith he, at the first beginning was a house of prayer, wherein all the people might devoutly and sincerely pray together, and so were your partes to use it now also at this day. For it was not builded to thende it should be a den of thieves. Likewise al the good and commendable 
d  Princes mentioned of in the Scriptures, were praised specially by those words that they had walked in the ways of their Father david. That is because they had returned to the first and original foundation, and had restored Religion even to the perfection wherein david left it. And therfore when we likewise saw all things were quiter trodden under foot of these men, and that nothing remained in the Temple of God but piteful spoils and decays, we reckoned it the wisest and the safest way to set before our eyes those Churches which we knew for a surety that they never had erred, nor never had private mass, nor prayers in straynge and Barbarous language, nor this corrupting of Sacramentes and other toys.   

THE SEVENTINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  Ye spend many words to little purpose in handling a needless common place, wherein ye seem to commend to us( touching religion) the pattern of antiquity and the very original. 
A needles common place containing matter serving us better thē the Defenders.  For then riching of which common place ye allege many examples, that serve us as well as you, and in dede better, for aptly might we return them all vpon you. Esdras was not so void of wisdom, when he went about to repair the temple of God at jerusalem, and there to set up Gods service again, as to sand to Ephesus for the platteforme of Dianas temple, and to the idolaters of Rome, for knowledge of their profane superstitions. For what better pattern could he haue, then the former Salomons temple for the one, and Moses lawe for the other? So neither was it necessary in the late king Edwarde of lamentable memory his dayes for reformation of the church of England, to sand to Strasburgh for friar Bucer, Peter Martyr the Chanō, to Embden for joannes a Lasco, to Geneua for friar Bernardine Ochino with their wives. To that purpose what better sampler could be set before our eyes, then the most ancient and principal church of the world the church of Rome, 
Lib. 3. c. 3.  fownded( as Irenaeus saieth) by the two most glorious Apostles Peter and Paul? As in the time of 
a  Aggeus the people burst out in tears, when they who had sene Salomons temple, saw the second temple so far beneath the majesty of the first: right so Christian hartes having in remembrance the pureness of faith, the ferventness of devotion, 
A lamentable change.  the godly order of divine service, the unity, peace, and concord, which the people lived in before, and seing these schisms and heresies, contempt of God, and looseness of life brought in by your altering of religion: can not but pitifully lament this wicked Babylon, in comparison of that holy jerusalem.  

b  Where ye speak of Paul and Christ, would God there were a Paul, not to amend the abuse of our lords supper by you brought in, but to restore it to the churches of England by you utterly taken away, the people being served by purport of your sacramentary doctrine, with a piece of common bread and a cup of wine, in stede of the true body and blood of our saviour.  

c  O that Christ were here again, or some by his commission having power, to whip you out of his house, which being appointed to be a place of devout prayer and service of God, ye haue made a den of theeues.  

d  What speak ye of those good kings, that walked in the ways of their most holy father david, who despise the virtuous examples of all holy fathers? What talk ye of restoring religion to the original and first perfection, that under name of a religion haue destroyed and abandoned all true religion? Whith what face can ye burden us with treading holy things under our feet? What good things haue ye left vntroden, which haue in so many places trodden the precious body of our saviour Christ under your feet, and in other most villainous wise abused it? What impute ye unto us the spoils and decays of the temple of God, who haue thrown down very many, robbed, spoiled, and ransacked all holy churches?  
Your conclusion against private mass, latin service, and communion under one kind, sheweth your penury and lack of other matter. The cuckoo wearieth mens ears in the spring tide no more with his one song, then you weary your readers with the tedious and often repetition of this one thing. That ye call the latin tongue of our prayers and service of the church barbarous, it is very strange. I would fain see how you can justify it, specially that tongue being so common and so much known in the latin church.  

apology  And forsomuch as our desire was to haue the Temple of the Lord restored a new, we would seek no other foundation, then the same which we knew was long ago laid by the Apostles, that is to wyte, our saviour Iesu Christ. And forsomuch as we 
a  heard God himself speaking unto us in his word, and saw also the notable 
b  Examples of the old and primitive church: again how 
c  uncertain a matter it was to wait for a general council, and that the 
d  success therof would be much more uncertain, but specially for somuche as we were most 
e  ascerteined of Goddes will, and counted it a wickedness to be to careful and ouercumbred about the 
f  judgements of mortal men, we could no longer stand taking aduise with flesh and blood, but rather thought good do the same thing that both might rightly be don, and hath also many a time ben don as well of good men as of many catholic Byshoppes: that is to remedy our own Churches by a 
g  provincial synod. For thus know we the 
h  old Fathers used to put in experience before they came to the public universal council. There remain yet at this day canons written 
i  in councils of free Cities, as of Carthage under Cyprian, as of Ancyra, Neocesaria and of Gangra also which is in Paphlagonia as some think, before that the name of the general council at Nice was ever heard of. After this fashion in old time did they speedily meet with, and cut short those heretics the Pelagians and the Donatistes at home with private disputation, without any general council. Thus also when the Emperour Constantius evidently and earnestly took part with Auxentius the bishop of the Arrians faction, Ambrose the bishop of the Christians appealed not unto a general council, where he saw no good could be don, by reason of the Emperours might and great labour, but appealed to his own clergy and people, that is to say, to a provincial synod ●. And thus it was decreed in the council at Nice, that the Byshops should assemble twice every year. And in the council at Carthage it was decreed, that the bishops should meet together in each of their provinces, at least once in the year, which was done as saith the council at Chalcedone, of purpose, that if any errors and abuses had happened to spring up any where, they might immediately at the first enterie be destroyed where they first begun. So likewise when Secundus and Palladius rejected the council at Aquila, because it was not a general and common council, Ambrose bishop of milan made answer, that no man ought to take it for a new or strange matter that the bishops of the west parte of the world didde call together synods, and make private assemblies in their provinces, for that it was a thing before then used by the west bishops no few times, and by the bishops of Grecia used oftentimes and commonly to be done. And so 
k  Charles the great being Emperour, held a provincial council in germany, for putting away Images, contrary to the second council at Nice. Neither pardy even amongst us is this so very a strange and new a trade? For wee haue had or now in england provincial Synods, and governed our Churches by home made laws. What should one say more? Of a truth even those 
l  greatest councils, and where most assembly of people ever was( whereof these men use to make such an exceeding reckeninge) compare them with all the Churches which trhoughout the world aclowledge and profess the name of christ, and what else I pray you can they seem to bee, butte certain private councils of bishops, and provincial synods? For admit peradventure, italy, france, spain, England, germany, denmark, and Scotlande meet to githers, yf there want Asia, Grecia, armoniac, Persia, Media, Mesopotania, Egypt, Ethiopia, India, and Mauritania, in all which places there bee both many Christian men and also bishops, howe can any man, being in his right mind, think such a council to bee a 
m.  general council? Or where so many 
n.  partes of the world do lack, howe can they truly say, they haue the consent of the whole world? Or what manner of council, ween you, was the same last at Trident? Or howe might it bee termed a general council, when out of all Christian kyngedomes and Nations, there came unto it butte 
o  only forty bishops, and of those some so cunning, that they might be thought meet to bee sent home again to learn their Grammar, and so well learned, that they had never studied divinity?  

Confutation. All the defenders matter dependeth of their pretensed hearing of God speaking to them. in his word.  To all this a short answer may suffice. For neither hath it any great pith, and the chief points be already answered. All that ye bring for your defence, 
a  dependeth of your hearing of God speaking unto you in his word. Now we hear Gods word, say we, and think the same contrary to your living, and to your teaching. Neither hitherto could ye ever prove ought against the catholic faith, how much so ever ye boast of Gods word. 
b  The examples of the primitive church be manifestly against you. 
c  Your waiting for a general council was not uncertain. For at the setting forth of your apology, it was far and well entred and almost ended. 
d  What so ever success thereof should follow, ye ought not to haue refused it being in all respects lawful.  

e  Your assurance of Gods will is none. That is but your common byeword, as it hath always ben of heretics. Ye ought to haue shewed good evidence for your being sure of Gods will, before ye attempted these great and dangerours changes in religion. Hitherto ye haue not proved to the world your particular vocation without al public authority, neither by evidence of Gods special vocation, nor by working of miracles. 
f  Neither becometh it you to call the determinations of a general council the judgements of mortal men, so much as concerneth declaration of necessary points of faith, but the prompting and teaching of the holy ghost.  

g  As for your provincial synod it was none. synods can not be kept without bishops. 
The Synod kept by the new English clergy was none for lack of bishops.  Before ye claim the name of a synod for your packing and huddling together, ye must prove yourselves bishops, which ye are not able to do. 
h  What soever ye say, there were never good men nor catholic bishops, that kept provincial synods contrary to approved and lawful general councils, as your synod is most contrary. Neither can ye pretend that ye followed any old fathers putting things in experience before the coming to an universal council, for ye went about to shift your matters, at what time the general council was sitting and had far proceeded. 
i  That provincial synods haue ben, who denieth? You bestow much labour in proving that all men confess. And here you recite many synods kept by catholic bishops against heresies, but never a one approved and confirmed against any lawful general council.  
Your council provincial holden in germany by Charles the great against the second Nicene council general, is a false forged matter, as the book against Images is, which one Eli Phili the man in the moons sons, calvin, Illyricus, 
Charlemaignes forged book against Images.  and other heretics haue fathered vpon that most godly and catholic Emperour.  
The council which you mean, was a godly and a catholic council holden at frankford by Pope Adrian and Charles the great, 
That the council of Frankeford holden in Charlemaignes time was not against the use of Images, but against Image-breakers. In praefat. ad ducem Bauariae.  against the wicked council of the heretics name image-breakers, which they held a little before that at Constantinople, which of those heretics was called the seventh and general, of the catholics pseudosynodus, that is to say, the false or forged council. Of both these councils thus writeth abbess urspergensis so much commended of Melanchthon. The council which a few yeres before was assembled at Constantinople in the time of Irene and Constantine her son, of them called the seventh and general( in this council holden at Frankford) was repealed and put away by consent of al, as void and superfluous, so as from thenceforth it should be name neither the seventh, nor ought else. Thus that Chronicler. Whereby it is evident that this council of Frankford was not holden for putting away Images, contrary to the second council at Nice, as you say: but against the council of Constantinople in defence of Images against the Image-breakers. If you believe not this, as the witness of a catholic writer, then believe Anselmus rid an earnest professor of your own the newest gospel. 
In catalogo annorum& principum. &c. Bernae impresso. anno. 1550. In addi●onib ad carrion.  Who writeth that Adrian the bishop of Rome and King Charles at the council holden at Frankford, execrated and accursed as heretical, the council of the Empire of Constantinople and of the greeks, which they held for thabolishing of Sainctes Images. Those be his very words. believe Peucerus Philip Melanchthons son in lawe writing, that the council of Nice was kept by common consent of the greek Emperour and of Charles. If the second council of Nice, which was altogether for Images, was holden by consent of Charles, how held he a council in germany for putting away Images against the council of Nice? believe carrion and specially Pantaleo of Zurich, 
Pantaleo.  a man of your own the most evangelical religion, who vpon warrant of thaucthoritie of Regino writeth, that the council of Frankford abrogated and disannulled the greeks council, that was against the worship of Images. 
charlemagne a great defender and maintainer of Images.  Briefly how falsely you and sundry other of your sect haue herein belied that worthy Prince Charles the great, it may easily appear by that Paulus Aemylius writeth of him. That he sent twelve bishops out of france to the council then holden at lateran in Rome, in which the image-breakers false name and forged council was abrogated.  

l  Where of general councils ye make private and provincial synods, ye do besides learning, reason, and custom of the church. 
m  
Whereof is a council accounted general.  A council is not accounted general be because bishops of all countries under heaven be assembled, but because many be assembled, and all be lawfully called. else in times when heresies reign, the church should never haue the necessary remedy of a general council, for always heretics would refuse to come to it, as ye haue to come to the late council at Trent.  
In Persia, Media, Egypt, Mauritania, 
n  I ween ye find few bishops at this day, nor many in the other countries which ye reckon, and those in maner all together ignorant and schismatics. Yet the Patriarkes of Assyria or Syria orientalis, 
The Patriarkes of Assyria and of armoniac haue received the council of Trent.  and of armoniac, who of late yeres were at Rome, haue for their provinces both subscribed to the council of Trent, and received the whole decrees of the same for their peoples.  
Your report of forty bishops only present at the council of Trent, and of their slender learning, is as true as your doctrine contrary to that council is, that is to say in plain terms stark false. It is well known there were at this late council of Trent in this Popes time, well near two hundred bishops.  
What so ever it bee, 
apology  the truth of the gospel of IESVS CHRIST dependeth not vpon the councils, nor as S. paul saith, vpon mortal creatures judgements. And if they which ought to be careful for Gods church, will not be wise but slack their duty, and harden their heartes against god and his christ, going on still to pervert the right ways of the lord, God will stir up the very stones, and make children and babes cunning, whereby there may ever be some to confute these mennes lies.   

THE EIGHTINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  The truth of the gospel dependeth not vpon councils, nor vpon the judgements of mortal creatures. But when there riseth a doubt vpon the scriptures of the gospel, or any other part of Gods word: by whom shall the same be discussed, 
The chiefest school of the world is a general council.  but by men? And where shall we find a school of men either better learned, or more assisted with the spirit of truth, then in a general council, where men of profoundest knowledge in the holy letters out of all partes of the world be assembled, and the holy ghost to them coming together in Christes name to wit for defence and opening of his everlasting truth, is assuredly promised?  

A case not to be admitted in the time of grace.  Your case, if it be general, that the gouernours of the church will wholly foreslow their duty, and harden their hartes against God and his Christ, and continue to pervert the right ways of our Lord, is not now in the time of grace to be admitted. 
The church shall not fail for lack of good teachers& gouernours.  Gods mercy is more abundantly powred upon the church, then it was vpon the synagogue. He hath made a covenant and hath promised both his words, whereby he hath signified to men his will, and also his holy spirit unto his church, for the right understanding of his words, and for moving of hartes accordingly, there to remain for ever. The place of Esaie is plain.  

Esai. 59.  I will give you foresees( saith our Lord by the mouth of ieremy) which shall feed you with knowledge and learning. 
Ierem. 3.  In an other place by the same prophet he saieth, 
Ierem. 32.  I will make an everlasting covenant with them, and will give them my fear in their heart, that they depart not from me. 
mat. ult.  In the gospel Christ promiseth to be with his Apostles and their successors all dayes to thende of the world. 
Cap. 14.15.16.  In John he promiseth them his spirit of truth to remain with them for ever. If bishops were such as your malicious case presupposeth, then should hell gates prevail against his church builded vpon the firm rock, and so should Christ seem to fail of his promise. 
Matth. 16.  To conclude, if they were such, or if they shall he such( I mean generally) at any time, thereof it must follow, that Christes providence towards his spouse the church faileth in things necessary, which were blasphemous to grant. 
Christes providence toward his spouse faileth not.  I would further discourse in proof hereof, but that I think it nedles having so oftentimes touched it before.  
This answer well considered and born away, may stop the chief of these Defenders slanderous objections, and very much confirm a man in the faith. Neither by this do I intend to excuse all. I grant among the universal number of bishops, some be negligent, some otherwise evil. Neither for all that, were these vowebreakers, false Apostates, and married friers, who be the Apostles of your, new gospel, those cunning babes, of whom ye speak, as though they should bring a new light into the world.  
For God is able( not onely without councils, 
apology  butt also will the councils nill the councils) to maintain and advance his own kingdom. Full many bee the thoughts of mans heart( saith solomon) but the counsel of the Lord abideth steadfast. There is no wisdom, there is no knowledge, there is no counsel against the lord. things endure not, saith Hilarius, that be set up with mennes workmanship: By an other manner of means must the church of God be builded and preserved, for that church is grounded vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophetes, and is holden fast together by one corner ston, which is Christ Jesu.  
speak not so vainly what God is able to do. 
Confutation.  What good is done by councils, it is done by God. God could haue taught us to believe as is behofull for our soul health and his own glory, by the holy ghost only, or by such means as his wisdom knoweth, and we know not. But it hath liked him to teach us by the mouths of men: Of whom for benefit of his church, 
Ephes. 4.  he hath made some Apostles, some Prophetes, some others evangelists, and some others foresees and teachers. And such shalbe to the end. 
The use and intent of councils.  So when the necessity of his church requireth, as when crafty and subtle heretics by their false sleights, pretence of Gods word, and manifold hipocrisies seduce christian people from the simplicity and pureness of their faith: then by councils wholesome remedies be provided, heresies be put away, and so the kingdom of God is maintained and advanced. And thus God doth, though he be able to do it otherwise. Sith then for the benefit which is attained by the holy ghost in councils God is to be thanked chiefly whose work it is, ye are to blame to abase the estimation of such advises of the spirit of God, by calling them the thoughts of mans heart, counsel against our Lord, and things set up with mans workmanship.  
And where ye say, that by an other manner of means the church of God must be builded and preserved, show us what other means they err, and we must say, ye are very cunning men, who correct, I will not say, magnificat, but Christes own ordinance for government of his church, who hath ordained Apostles, Prophetes, evangelists, foresees and teachers( as is before mentioned) in edificacionem corporis Christi, to the building up of the body of Christ, which is his church. 
The mark which the Defenders shoot at.  Ye shal pardon us if we believe S. Paul be fore you. We see what is the mark ye shoot at, that the lawful successors of the Apostles, Prophetes, and evangelists, and the lawful foresees and doctors being put from the building of Christes body the church, yourselves may take the work in hand, and govern all. Set your hartes at rest, it shal not be so. Gods providence will not fail his church so far. Though we know toward thende of the world, 
mat. 24.  when Antichrist shall come, when iniquity shall abound, and charity in many shall wax could, heretics, who be the forerunners of Antichrist, shall bear a great swea, but genarally they shall not prevail. God shall ever haue his chosen number to serve him. particular churches for sin may fail. Yet shall the church stand and continue.  
But marvelous notable and to very good purpose for these dayes bee Hieromes words: 
apology Hieron. in Naum. Cap. 3.  whosoever( saith he) the D●ui●l hath deceived and enticed to fall a sleep as it were with the sweet& deathly enchantments of the marmaids the sirens, those persons doth Gods word awake up, saying unto them: Arise thou that sleepest, lift up thyself, and Christ shall give the light. Therfore at the coming of christ, of Goddes word, of the ecclesiastical doctrine, and of the full destruction of ninive, and of that most b wtifull harlot, then shall the people which heretofore had been cast in a trance under their maisters, bee raised up, and shall make h●ste to go to the Mountaines of the Scripture, and there shall they find hills, Moses, verily and Iosua the son of Nun: other hills also which ar the Prophetes: and hills of the new testament, which are the Apostles and the evangelists: And when the people shall flee for succour to such hills, and shall bee exercised in the reading of those kind of mountains, though they find not one to teach them( for the harvest shall bee great, butte the labourers few) yet shall the good desire of the people bee well accepted, in that they haue gotten them to such hills, and the negligence of their maisters shall bee openly reproved. These bee Hieromes sayings, and that so plain, as there needeth no interpreter. For they agree so just with the things wee now see with our eyes haue already come to pass, that wee may verily think he mente to foretell, as it were by the spirit of prophesy, and to paincte before our face the universal state of our time, the fall of the most gorgeous harlot Babylon, the repairinge again of Goddes church, the blindness and slay the of the bishops, and the good will and forwardenesse of the people. For who is so blind that he seeth not these men bee the maisters, by whom the people, as say the jerome, hath been led into error, and lulled a sleep? Or who seeth not Rome, that is their ninive, which sometime was paincted with fairest colours, but now her vizer being pulled of, is both better seen and less set by? Or who seeth not that good men being a waked as it were out of their deade sleep, at the light of the gospel, and at the voice of God, haue resorted to the hills of the Scriptures, waiting not at all for the councils of such maisters?   

THE NINTINTH CHAPTER.  

Confutation. False handling of S. Hieromes words in despite of the church.  Ye wrest the saying of S. jerome to your purpose, that is to say, so as it may seem to be spoken against the church that now is, wherein ye make him a prophet. And that this place might sound the more against the clergy, to the commendation of the people, and to stir them to read the scriptures: after your accustomend maner ye stick not to add somewhat of your own in one place, to take away a little of the doctor in an other place, to alter the words in an other place. Who looketh so narrouly for trial of this as your secretary thought maliciously when he wrote it: by diligent conference of this apology with S. Herome he shall finde it.  

The right sense of S. Hirome truly reported.  Now concerning the right sense of the place, S. Hieromes intent was not, to foretell and paint before our face( as you say) the universal state of our time, but to tel and declare the meaning of the prophet Nahum signifying the state of the time now past, to wit, the time of Christes first coming into the world, for the words do expressly speak thereof. After S. Hieromes exposition, 
ninive is the world, the Assyrian king is the devill.  by ninive that prophet meaneth the world, by the Assyrian king, the devill. And there he prophesieth the ruin of the world and of the devill at the coming of Christ. S. jerome speaketh never a word of your harlot Babylon, whereof ye and your vnlerned ministers haue never done babbling meaning thereby the holy roman church.  

The falsehood of the Defender that penned the apology. In comment. in Nahum. Cap. 3.  First you sir defender that penned this gear, haue played a false part by dividing the one member of the sentence into two. Or rather by putting in one word, and leaving out an other. For where S. jerome hath thus, & consummationis ninive speciosissimae quondam meretricis( whereby he meant the undoing of the devils power in the world once that is to say before the coming of Christ a most beautiful harlot) that you might give occasion of reproach to the roman church, which falsifying the doctors sense you understand by ninive, you haue set it forth thus, & consummationis ninive,& speciosissimae meretricis. Then you descant vpon it, as though S. jerome had so written, and say that he setteth before our face the fall of the most gorgeous harlot Babylon, which you interpret to be Rome. And then further corrupting S. Hieromes sense, you make him to speak of the repairing again of Gods church, as though at this day it were by default of the catholic clergy fallen down, and should be set up again by you and your ministers, also of the blindness of the bishops of our time, that they be the maisters by whom the people hath ben led into error, and lulled a sheep. And hereto ye add, as saith jerome, where S. jerome saith not so neither of the maisters at Christes first coming, but of the devill, who borough the people asleep, by whom he understandeth not the people that liveth now, but them that were deceived by the devill under evil maisters before the coming of Christ.  
But because this defender thinketh he hath acquitted himself like a clercke by alleging this place out of S. jerome against the catholic church, I require all the learned to read over what S. jerome writeth vpon the end of the Prophet Nahum from these words of the text, 
in Nahum. Cap. 3.  Brucus irruit& euolauit &c, forth to the end of the chapter, and most diligently to mark that goeth immediately before the place by this defender alleged. As for thee good reader that understandest not the latin tongue, 
S. jerome returned vpon the defenders. S. jerome commendeth to us not only the scriptures, but also the doctors for the better surety against heretics.  I assure thee, S. jerome speaketh those words of heretics, of teachers of evil doctrine, of such as will not hear the voice of the church, of which sort this new english clergy is. And in that discourse he commendeth to true believers not only the hills, that is, the written scriptures, but also the doctrine of the church,( as thou seest in the allegation put in thapologie) and before that he commendeth likewise latibula doctorum, the caues of the doctors, in which the faithful people also as by flying to the hills, couch themselves safe from danger of the devill stirrer of heresies. So that if the place be well scanned, by that allegation they shall seem to haue made a rod to whip themselves. The whole place being over long to recite here, a sentence or two, that are specially meant of such as they be, may suffice.  
Vae itaque his &c. wo then to those which are teachers of perverse doctrines in ninive, by which is signified the world. And aptly to them it is said, 
Psal. 131.  thy foresees haue slept, for they haue given sleep to their eyes, and slombering to their eyeleddes. And therefore haue they not found a place for our Lord, nor a tabernacle for the God of jacob. Neither haue they heard out of Ephrata, that is to say, frugifera ecclesia, the fruitful church. Nor haue they found the church in the thickettes of the woods. Neither only the shepherdes of this rifferaffe( mixticij huius, he meaneth by {αβγδ} which is the word of the seventy translators all sorts of people deceived by false teachers) and of the locuste( they are the captain heretics) which in time of frost sitteth in the hedges, haue slept, but by the king of Assyrians( who is the devill) they haue ben lulled a sleep. For always it is the study of the devill, how he may bring asleep waking souls. Thus S. jerome.  

The gospelers may well seem they whom the devill hath lulled a sleep.  Now I report me to those that haue eyes to see, whether our new clergy may not seem those whom the devill hath lulled a sleep( gladly I use their own term) in their new devises, in their own liked conceits, in their schisms and heresies, in their unjust possession of benefice and bishoprics those yet living, to whom the right belongeth, in their presumption of that office they are not duly called unto, in their malice toward the church, in the continual satisfying of their fleshly lusts, and in their unlawful and lecherous embracinges.  
Let them fear the dreadful saying of S. jerome following strait after their allegation. 
A dreadful saying pertaining to the Defenders and to all other heretics.  Non est sanitas contritioni tuae, &c. There is no health for thy bruise, thy woonde swelleth. Therefore the rifferaffe of ninive can not be healed, because he layeth not down his pride, and the woonde is always fresh, and daily is he woonded whiles the devill striketh at him. And when all cometh to all, there is no health for his bruise. For although he seem to himself hole, yet is his soul broken and crusshed with the bytle of the whole earth that fownceth down vpon it. And it is not healed, because continually it is lifted up( with pride). But if it become humble, and submit itself to Christ, 
Psal. 50.  a contrite and an humbled heart God despiseth not. Thus describeth S. jerome these men. Neither let them say, they submit themselves to Christ, whom and whose gospel they haue so much in their mouths, until they follow his doctrine saying of the gouernours of his church, He that heareth you heareth me, 
luke. 10.  and he that despiseth you, despiseth me. And this much for answer to the place of S. jerome.  
Butte by your favour, some will say, 
apology.  These things ought not to haue been attempted without the bishop of Romes commandment, forsomuch as he onely is the knot and band of Christian society: he onely is that priest of levites order, whom God signified in the Deuteronomy, from whom counsel in matters of weight and true iudgement ought to be fetched, and who so obeyeth not his iudgement, the same man ought to bee killed in the sight of his brethren: and that no mortal creature hath authority to bee judge over him whatsoever he do: that christ reigneth in heaven and he in earth: that he alone can do as much as christ, or God himself can do, because Christ and he haue but one council house: That without him is no faith, no hope, no church, and who so goeth from him, quiter casteth away and renounceth his own salvation. such talk haue the canonists, the Popes parasites surely, but with small discretion or soberness: for they could scant say more, at least they could not speak more highlye of christ himself.   

THE twentieth CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  What some will say, we know not, we tell you, that your change of religion and manifold heresies ought not to haue ben attempted at all, neither without the bishop of Romes commandment, nor with his commandment. Touching the bishop of Rome himself, you haue never done with him. He is a great block in your way. And so hath he ever been in the way of all heretics. Yet could he never by you or them be removed. To your scoffs against him and belying of the canonists before by you uttered, and here idly repeated, my former answer may suffice.  

apology  As for us truly, we haue fallen from the bishop of Rome vpon no maner of worldly respect or commodity, and would to christ he so behaved himself, as this falling away needed not: but so the case stood, that unless we left him, wee could not come to Christ. Neither will he now make any other league with us, then such a one as Nahas the king of the Ammonites would haue made in times past with thē of the city of Iabes, 
1. Reg. 11.  which was to put out the right eye of each one of the inhabitants. even so will the Pope pluck from us the holy Scripture, the gospel of our salvation, and all the confidence which we haue in Christ Iesu. And vpon other condition can he not agree vpon peace with vs.  

Confutation.  Ye are not fallen from the bishop of Rome only, which were a damnable schism, but ye are fallen from Christes church. 
De simplicitate praelatorum.  So that now after the mind of S. Cyprian, ye are not like to haue God your father, for that ye refuse the church your mother. Whether thus ye haue done for worldly respect or commodity, for pride, vain glory, hatred, covetise, or for your fleshly pleasure, that we leave to God. Neither should any behaviour of the Pope( whereof ye complain) were it never so evil, haue caused you to forsake the church, as I haue before said. Neither are ye now come to Christ, but verily thus being departed, ye are fled from the orderly array of the church, into the confuse tentes of satan. And though the scriptures be taken from you yea by your own sufferance never so much, unless ye forsake your heresies and become catholic as Christen men ought to be, the Pope will not make league with you, be ye well assured. And therefore your comparison of the Pope with king Nahas is not very agreeable. But sirs ye speak more maliciously, then credibly. Be ye good Christen men and conform yourselves to the catholic faith, and I warrant you, the Pope will not pluck from you neither the scriptures, nor your confidence in Christ Iesu, no more then he doth from vs. If ye haue no better excuse for your departure from the church, then this, I marvell how ye can bear the guilt of your own consciences, specially if ye haue red the old fathers, namely S. Cyprian, and S. Augustine writing against the Donatistes.  
For whereas some use to make so great a vaunt, 
apology  that the Pope is onely Peters successor, as though thereby he carried the holy ghost in his bosom and cannot err, this is but a matter of nothing and a very trieflyng tale. Gods grace is promised to a good mind, and to one that fearith God, not unto Sees and Successions. Riches saith Iorome, may make a bishop to be of more might then the rest: but all the Byshoppes whosoever they be, are the successors of the Apostles. Yf so be the place and consecrating onely be sufficient( why then) Manasses succeeded david, and Caiphas succeeded Aaron. And it hath ben often seen, that an Idol hath stand in the Temple of God. In old time Archidamus the Lacedemonian boasted much of himself, how he came of the blood of Hercules, but one Nicostratus in this wise abated his pride: Nay, quod he, thou seemest not to descend from Hercules, for Hercules destroyed ill men, but thou makest good men evil. And when the pharisees bragged of their lineage how they were of the kindred and blood of Abraham, ye saith Christ, seek to kill me, a man which haue toulde you the trouth as I heard it from God: thus Abraham never did. Ye are of your Father the devil, and will needs obey his will.  

Confutation. A perpetual flock requireth a perpetual shepherd.  The Pope succeedeth Peter in authority and power. For whereas the sheep of Christ continue to the worlds end, he is not wise that thinketh Christ to haue made a shepherd temporary or for a time, over his perpetual flock. Then what shepeherdly endoument our Lord gave to the first shepherd at the institution of the shepeherdly office of the church: that is he vnderstanded to haue given ordinarely to every successor. To Peter he gave that he obtained by his prayer made to the father, that his faith should not fail. 
luke. 22.  again to him he gave grace that to perform, the performance whereof at him he required, to wit, that he confirmed and strengthened his brethren, wherefore the grace of steadfastness of faith, and of confirming the wavering and doubtful in faith, every Pope obtaineth of the holy ghost for the benefit of the church. 
In what consideration the Pope may be said to err, in what consideration not to err.  And so the Pope although he may err by personal error, in his own private iudgement, as a man, and as a particular doctor in his own opinion: yet as he is Pope, the successor of Peter, the vicar of Christ in earth, the shepherd of the universal church, in public iudgement, in deliberation and definitive sentence he never erreth, nor never erred. For when so ever he ordaineth or determineth any thing by his high bishoply authority, intending to bind Christen men to perform or believe the same, he is always governed and holpen with the grace and favour of the holy ghost. This is to catholic doctors a very certainty, though to such doughty clerkes as ye are, it is but a matter of nothing, and a very trifling tale.  
Gods grace in one respect is promised both to a good mind and to one that feareth God, and also in an other respect, to the successors of Peter. S. Hieromes saying to evagrius, which now you haue alleged three or four times, will not handsomely serve you for so diverse points, as a shipmans hose for diverse legs. Once again I tell you, thereby he meaneth nothing else, but that, the greatness of Rome ought not to give authority to a wrong private custom,( by which deacons in certain cases were preferred before priestes) against the right general custom of the world. And bishops be the successors of the Apostles, we grant, yet is the Pope the successor of Peter, who was shepherd of all Christes lambs and sheep, and therefore also of the Apostles themselves, and so hath a higher authority.  
The place and consecrating only be not enough, 
evil life taketh not away bishoply authority.  that a bishop err not. But what so ever bishop is duly consecrated, though he be an evil man: yet is he a bishop, and by lack of virtuous life, loseth not bishoply authority and power. Iudas as wicked as he was, an apostle he was, nolesse then Peter, John, or james. Manasses also was a king, as well as david, and Caiphas a high bishop, as well as Aaron. Mary between God and the idol ye speak of, there is incomparable difference.  
As for your example of Archidamus, who boastingly fetched his pedigree from Hercules, you must consider, succession of virtue always followeth not succession of blood. Now we do aclowledge in the Pope a succession of shepeherdly power, even such as was in Peter. Which power is not taken away by lack of Peters holynes. Christ likewise by his answer to the pharisees, though he affirmed, 
What kind of succession is meant in this case.  they succeeded not Abraham in love of truth, and that for their malice they were of their father the devill: yet he denied not but that they came lineally of Abraham, and were of his blood, though not of his godliness. Such succession mean not we speaking of the Pope, whose succession is derived of Peter, but the succession of power and authority, and of infallibility of faith in iudgement and sentence definitive.  

apology  Yet notwithstanding, because wee will grant somewhat to succession, tell us, hath the Pope alone succeeded Peter? And wherein I pray you, in what religion, in what office? In what piece of his life hath he succeeded him? What one thing( tel me) had Peter ever like unto the Pope? Or the Pope like unto Peter? Excepteperaduenture they will say thus: that Peter when he was at Rome, never taught the Gospel, never fed thet flock, took away the keys of the kingdom of heaven, hid the treasures of his Lord, sat him down onely in his Castle in S. John lateran, and poincted out with his finger al the places of purgatory, and kinds of punishments, committing some poor souls to be tormented, and other some again suddenly releasing thence at his own pleasure, taking money for so doing: or that he gave order to say private Masses in every corner: or that he mumbled up the holy service with a low voice and in an unknown language, or that he hanged up the Sacrament in every Temple and on every altar, and carried the same about before him whether so ever he went, vpon an ambling Iennet, with lights, and belles: or that he consecrated with his holy breath, oil, wax, wulle, belles, chaleses, churches and altars, or that he sold Iubiles, graces, liberties, aduousons, preventions, first fruits, palles, the wearing of palles, bulls indulgences and pardons: or that he called himself by the name of the head of the church, the highest bishop, bishop of bishops, alone most holy: or that by usurping he took vpon himself the right and authority over other folkes churches: or that he exemted himself from the power of any civil government: or that he maintained warres, set Princes together at variance: or that he sitting in his chair with his triple crown full of labelles, with sumptuous and Persianlike gorgiousnes, with his royal sceptre, with his diadem of gold and glittering with stones, was carried about not vpon Paalfraie, but vpon the shoulders of noble men. These things no doubt did Peter at Rome in times past, and left them in charge to his successors as you would say, from hand to hand: for these things be now a dayes donne at Rome by the Popes, and be so done, as though nothing else ought to be done.   

THE XXI. CHAPTER.  
The Pope alone hath succeeded S. Peter. 
Confutation. Wherein the Pope doth succeed S. Peter. joan. 21.  ask you wherein? In what religion? in what office? We tell you, he succeeded in Peters chair, in which he sate at Rome and ruled the church, in Christian religion, in that office which Christ committed to Peter, when he said, Pasce oves meas, feed my sheep. Then which office he never gave greater, nor with like circumstance of charge, nor to any other gave he it, then to Peter. For to him alone, he said feed my sheep. What ask ye us of this officers life? In so great a number of Popes, what if some were evil? Is the promise of Christ thereby made voided and frustrate? If because some Popes offended in their life, that were a just cause why ye should forsake the catholic church: what honest man would abide in your congregations, understanding that Luther was your Pope of of Wittenberg, Zuinglius your Pope of Zurich, calvin of late and now Beza that holy Prelate your Pope of Geneua? Pope I say, though unproperly, for that by each of them the Popes authority among their congregations hath ben challenged. And hath not Klebitius 
Klebitius.  one of your own vagabund Prelates written a book against the Saxonicall popedom?  
You ask what thing had Peter ever like unto the Pope, 
The Pope is like to Peter in authority of feeding Christes sheep.  or the Pope like unto Peter. We tell you. Peter had authority to feed Christes sheep like unto the Pope. And the Pope hath authority to feed Christes sheep like unto Peter, Like power, like commission. He that gave them authority to feed, gave them also authority to do what so ever may pertain to feeding. How much a do the shepherd hath about his sheep, it is not unknown. So many things pertain to the Popes office for the necessary feeding, oversight, and government of Christes flock. 
The Defenders demeanour toward, the highest shepherd sheweth thē not to be sheep of Christes flock.  Of which flock if ye were good sheep, ye would be fed of your shepherd, ye would not bite your shepherd, ye would hear his voice, ye would not make such a slanderous bleating against him, ye would be ruled by him, ye would not thus spurne at him, and with your hard foreheads like mad rams take your veaze and run at him. But praised be our Lord who hath builded his church vpon a rock, that neither the foreheads of angry rams, nor the horns of stinking Goates of your heretical herds can hurt it. As for your heap of scoffs here shoueld together, which are before hurled abroad through your apology out of the sink of your heresies, confessing myself not to haue the grace which ye haue herein, I leave you to be answered thereof on a stage by some good fellow with a furred cap and a hood, taught to tell his tale by some interlude maker.  

apology  Or contrariwise peradventure they had rather say thus, that the Pope doth now all the same doings which wee know Peter did many a day a go: that is, that he rounneth up and down into every country to preach the gospel, not only openly abroad, but also priuatelye from house to house: that he is diligent, and applieth that business in season and out of season, in dew time, out of due time: that he doth the part of an evangelist, that he fulfilled the work and ministery of Christ, that he is the watcheman of the house of Israel, receiveth answers and words at Goddes mouth: and even as he receiveth them, so delivereth them over to the people: That he is the salt of the earth: That he is the light of the world, that he doth not feed his own self but his flock, that he doth not entangle himself with the worldly cares of this life, that he doth not use a certainty over the lords people, that he seeketh not to haue other men minister to him, but himself rather to minister unto others, that he taketh all bishops as his fellows, and equals: that he is subject to Princes as to personnes sent from God, that he giveth to caesar that which is Cesars: and that he as the old Bishops of Rome did( without any question) calleth the Emperour his Lord: unless therfore the Popes do the like now as dayes, as Peter did the things foresaid, there is no cause at all why they should glory so of Peters name and of his succession.  
Ye would your readers to ween, 
Confutation. The diversity of Peters time and this requireth some diversity in doing the duty of the head shepherd.  we had no better tale to tell for the Pope, then ye make us to report. We say not, the Pope doth all things now that Peter did. Peter himself were he now alive, would not ne could not do the things which he did, when he lived. The condition of times and state of the church now, is far different from that it was then. The Pope now runneth not up and down into every country, he goeth not openly and privately from house to house and to every alehouse, as ye would him to do, like one of your ministers: Neither I trow ye maisters that be superintendentes yourselves, think it convenient, that ye go from house to house, to preach your gospel at these dayes. And would ye the Pope to abase himself to that ye think becometh not yourselves? 
The Pope hath great helps for discharge of his duty.  He hath( as meet it is) other fit men to help to bear his burden with him. And whereas one body sufficeth not for so great and so many affairs: for council he hath many heads, for oversight many eyes, for care many hartes, for preaching many tongues, for work many hands, for knowledge many ears, for expedition of matters many feet, for the great weight of his charge, many shoulders, briefly foral necessary and behooful cases, convenient helps. The like helps would S. Peter use, were he now living.  
If the Pope be not S. Peters successor, 
The Pope is Peters successor, and the bishops be the Apostles successors, though they do not a●l thing●s which Peter and tother Apostles did.  because he doth not all things as S. Peter did, then haue we at this day a small number of the Apostles successors, and so consequently of bishops, for they be their successors. For how many bishops be there in all the world, that do all things, as the Apostles did? That they be bishops and successors of the Apostles, it is enough they bear the office of the Apostles. That they be good bishops, it is necessary they follow the virtues of the Apostles. Which whether they do or no, yet haue they the power and authority, that the Apostles had. Now if these were not bishops because they do not all things as the Apostles did, then were not the provinces over which they bear spiritual rule, churches. For without bishops can not the church be. By this reason, we should remain in doubt whether there be a church or no, which were very absurd. So thē the Pope duly called and placed in Peters chair, may justly claim the name of Peters successor. If he do not his duty, 
luke. 16.  as Peter did, he shall give account of his bailywike, to him whose chief bailie he is.  

apology  much less cause haue they to complain of our departing, and to call us again to be fellows and friends with them, and to believe as they believe. Men say that one Cobilon a Lacedemonian, when he was sent ambassador to the King of the Persians to treat of a league, and found by chance them of the court playng at dice, he returned streight way home again, leaving his message undone. And when he was asked why he did slack to do the things which he had received by public commission to do, he made answer, he thought it should be a great reproach to his common wealth, to make a league with Dicers. But yf we should content ourselves to return to the Pope and his popyshe errors, an to make a covenant not only with dicers, but also with men far more ungracious and wicked thē any dicers be: Besides that this should be a great blot to our good name, it should also be a very daungerous matter both to kindle Goddes wrath against us, and to clog and condemn our own souls forever.    

THE XXII. CHAPTER.  

Confutation.  Your example of Cobilon, that liketh you so well, we admit. Cobilon was sent to the king of the Persians to treat of a league. Did he well and like a good ambassador, to despise both the king and all the nation of the Persians, and strait way to return again home leaving his message undone, for that he found some of the court playing at dice? I think, were there any of you a Prince, he would not commend his subject, that should so do his message, or rather leave his message undone, in so weighty a matter. Cobilon was marvelous precise, that could not abide some to play at dice. He had rather do a fault himself by transgressing his commission, thē bear with the fault of others, if it were any fault at all. The king might be a worthy prince, his nobles of great virtue, his counsellors grave and wise, his souldiers valiant, his people obedient: though some of the court were found passing the time at dice. Let dice playing be a fault. Were all nought for the fault of a few? again what pertained that to Cobilō? He should haue attended the business he was sent for, not to haue cast of all together, because he saw some do amiss over whom he had no charge.  
Ye do well to compare yourselves with this Cobilon. 
The defenders rightly compare themselves to Cobilon.  For in dede ye do as he did. Ye were sent by Christ to his vicar Peters successor to be fed and governed like sheep under the shepherd. For he that commanded Peter to feed his sheep, commanded also the sheep to submit themselves to Peters feeding and governing. Now because ye found some of the clergy, and perhaps some Pope at times to haue done amiss, as it were playing at dice, ye left Pope, clergy, church, and al together, and so returned from us back again to the reprobate congregation whereof ye are, for if ye had ben of us, 
1. joan. 2. The gospelers without just cause forsake the church and damn themselves, because some of the church live an evil l●fe.  ye had remained with us as S. john saith. Why do ye not rather consider your own infirmity, and bear with others? what though some of the clergy do evil? Will ye therefore do worse yourselves, and for the faults of a few, to your utter damnation forsake all? Had ye rather by your departing damn yourselves, then other to do evil of whom ye haue no charge? Why do not ye your own duty, and leave to look with so curious an eye vpon the doing of others? What reason haue ye to forsake the catholic faith, because ye see default in their life, whose doctrine justly ye can not condemn?  
O ye say, for us to return and become catholic, ( for that is the sense of your words how so ever ye scoff and rail) it should be a blot to our good name, and a kindling of Gods wrath against us to the dannation of our souls. Thus ye say and prove it not. For your proof that followeth is no proof, 
What small worship it is for a man in this world, and how certain damnation for the life to come, to be cut from the church.  because it is false. Now we tell you on the other side, not to return back from your schisms and heresies, and thus to cut yourselves from the catholic church, and so to remain: neither shal it be to you in this world very worshipful, ye may be sure, and after this life it shall procure to your souls most certain damnation. Christ and his church be a perfit body, he the head, the true believers knit together in charity the members, each one in his order and degree. He is the vine, we the boughs and branches. What member cut of from the body, liveth? What bough broken from the three groweth? As every such member death, and bough withereth. so if ye remain not in the catholic church which is the body of Christ, ye draw no life from the head, ye haue no part of the spirit, that from thence redoundeth to every member, ye haue no portion of the vital iouysse that issueth from the roote. then what remaineth, but that ye be cast into the fire? For this cause S. Cyprian and other fathers often times haue said, that out and besides the church, there is no salvation.  

apology  For of very truth we haue departed from him whom we saw had blinded the whole world this many an hundred year. From him who to far presumpteouslye was wont to say, he could not err, and whatsoever he did no mortal man had power to condemn him, neither kings nor Emperours, nor the whole clergy, nor yet all the people in the world together, no and though he should carry away with him to Hell a thousand souls. From him who took vpon him power to command not only men but even Goddes angels, to go, to return, to lead souls into purgatory, and to bring them back again when he list himself: whom Gregory said, with out all doubt is the very foreronner and standard bearer of Antichrist, and hath utterly forsaken the catholic faith: From whom also those ringeleaders of owers, who now with might and main resist the gospel, and the trouth which they know to be the truth, haue or this departed every one of their own accord and good will, and would even now also gladly depart from him, if the note of inconstancy, and shane and their own estimation among the people were not a let unto them. In conclusion, we haue departed from him to whom we wer not bound, and who had nothing to lay for himself, but onely I know not what virtue or power of the place where he dwelleth, and a continuance of succession.  
As ye confess your departing, 
Confutation.  so would God ye understood your gylt. And with what eyes I pray you, saw ye, that Peters successor had blinded the whole world these many hundred yers? 
The Defenders see with wrong spectacles.  Ye haue put over your eyes wrong spectacles, through which ye are bereft of the iudgement of your sight. If ye say the scriptures be your spectacles, remember young eyes see the worse for spectacles. If ye will profitably use them, put away your youthly affections and new fancies. having old hartes and old judgements, which our godly forefathers had, then doubtless through these spectacles shall ye see, so as is most behofull for the profit and health of your souls to see.  
To the chief cause of your departing from us, which here ye repeat again, I haue before answered. As for your light purgatory scoffs, 
answer to the defenders reproach in the behoof of the catholic bishops of England.  I leave them to be answered by some 'vice in an interlude. Those reverent fathers, and godly learned men, whose romes ye hold wrongfully, whom it liked your interpreter to call ringeleaders, resist not the gospel, but suffer persecution for the gospel. Your gospel, that is to say, your vile heresies and blasphemies, worthily they detest. Your new trouth, that is to say, your false and wicked lies, they abhor. Neither ever departed they from any parte of the duty of catholic men by their own accord and good will, as ye say. But wherein they stepped aside, they where compelled by such fear, as might happen to a right constant man, I mean the terror of death, which as Aristotle saith, 
The s●are of death m●st terrible.  of all terrible things is most terrible. Now because yet they find the terror of a guilty conscience more terrible then death of their persons, they intend by Gods grace assisting thē, never so to step aside again, but rather to suffer what so ever extremities. Whose blood or the blood of any of thē, if God to his honour shall at any time permit you to draw, which so much ye thirst, sone after look ye for the returning of the Israelites again, that text being then fulfilled, 
Gen. 15.  Completae sunt iniquitates Amorrhaeorum. Were they not well assured of the trouth, most certain it is, what so ever ye say, they would not make so foolish a bargain as yourselves do, as to buy vain estimation among the people, with the certain loss of their souls.  

apology  And as for us we of all others most justly haue left him. For our kings, yea even they which with greatest reverence did folow and obey the authority and faith of the bisbops of Rome, haue long since found and felt well enough the yoke and tyranny of the Popes kingdom. For the Bishops of Rome took the crown of from the head of our king henry the second, and compelled him to put a side all majesty, and like a mere private man to come unto their Legate with great submission and humility, so as all his subiectes might laugh him to scorn. More then this, they caused Byshops and monks and some parte of the nobility to be in the field against our king john, and set all the people at liberty from their oath whereby they ought allegiance to their king: and at last, wickedly and most abhominabilie they bereaved the king not only of his kingdom, but also his life. Besides this they excommunicated and cursed king Henry the yght, the most famous Prince, and stirred up against him sometime the Emperour, sometime the French King, and as much as in them was, put in adventure our realm to haue ben a very pray and spoil. Yet were they but fowls and mad, to think that either so mighty a Prince could be feared with bugs and rattles: or else that so noble and great a kingdom might so easily, even at one morsel be devoured and swallowed yp.  


Confutation.  THE XXIII. CHAPTER.  
Concerning the case between these three kings of England, and the bishops of Rome for the time being, I say little. If they did well, and the bishops evil, they haue their reward, the other, their punishment. If otherwise, or how so ever, each one at Gods iudgement shall haue his deserved measure. But be it granted, all were true, ye say, though we know the more part to be false. What though king Henry the second 
Henry the second.  were evil treated of Pope Alexander about the murdering of S. Thomas the archbishop of canterbury, 
S. Thomas archbishop of canterbury.  and king John 
King John.  likewise of that zealous and learned Pope Innocentius the third, about the stir he made against the church for cause of steven Lankton archbishop of canterbury, king Henry the eight 
Henry the eight.  likewise of the Popes in our time about matters yet fresh bleeding? Is this a good cause why ye( who haue nothing to do with Princes matters now ended and butted) should forsake the church, 
This is no just cause to forsake the church.  change your faith, change the whole order of religion, and condemn all before your time for a thousand yeres?  
Because the bishops of Rome haue done evil, will ye give over the faith of the church of Rome? Because the Popes did wrong to Princes, will ye do wrong to yourselves? because the Popes were at variance with these three kings, will ye be at variance with God? Because they excommunicated them, will ye excommunicate yourselves? I haue heard of a fool that being stricken of one standing a looffe of, would eftsoons strike an other that stood next him. But I never heard of any so foolish, that seing an other stricken, would therefore kill himself. verily your apostasy and departing from the catholic church, is to weighty a matter, to be defended with so light a reason.  
And as yet though all this were to little, 
apology  they would needs make all the realm tributary to them, and exacted thence yearly most unjust and wrongful taxes. So deere cost us the freendeship of the city of Rome. Wherefore if they haue gotten these things of us by extortion through their fraud and subtle sleights, we see no reason why we may not pluck away the same from them again by lawful ways and just means. And if our kings in that darkness and blindness of former times gave them these things of their own accord and liberality for Religion sake, being moved with a certain opinion of their feigned holynes, now when ignorance and error is spied out, may the kings their successors take them away again, seing they haue the same authority, the kings their ancestors had before. For the gift is void, except it be allowed by the will of the giver: and that cannot seem a perfect will, which is dymmed and hindered by error.  

Confutation.  As for Peterpens, and what other so ever sums of money were yearly paid to the church of Rome, which were not by extortion and suttill sleights by the Popes gotten as ye slander, but freely and discretely by the prince and the realm for a great cause granted, it is not a thing that so much grieveth the Pope, as your departure from the true faith and church doth, as it may well appear by that which happened in queen Maries reign. In which time although the Pope were acknowledged, yet himself never was known to haue demanded his Peterpens, or any other yearly payments again. 
Paying of Peterpens is not a just cause why the church should be divided.  But what is this to your schisms and heresies? This helpeth you nothing for answer to the heinous crime of your apostasy. The liberality of our country to the see of Rome, which is the mother of all the West churches, hath ben so small in comparison of certain other realms, as with the honour of the realm it might not seem to find itself grieved therewith. 
The defenders undiscrete complaint of payments to Rome sauereth more of niggardness, then standeth with the realms honour.  Yet here ye set a gnat to an Elephant, and make great ado about a little. The realm is not so much enriched by retaining that small sum from the Pope, as it is dishonoured by your undiscrete talk sauering altogether of misery and niggardness. Ye should haue shewed better stuff at least in th'end of your book. The last act of a fable by rules of poetry should be best. Ye haue done like a foolish poet making your end so bad. The Pope seeketh not your money, he seeketh you. He seeketh the safety of your souls. He seeketh like a good shepherd how to reduce the streyed sheep of England unto the fold of Christes church. God grant we may see his good intent happily acheued.   

THE RECAPITVLATION OF THE apology.  
THus ye see good Christian Reader, 
apology  howe it is no 
a  new thing, though at this day the religion of Christ be entertained with dispites and checks, being but lately restored and as it were coming up again a new, for somuche as the like hath chanced both to Christ himself and to his Apostles: yet nevertheless for fear ye may suffer yourself to be lead amiss and seduced with those exclamations of our Aduersaries, we haue 
b  declared at large unto you the very whole maner of our Religion, what our opinion is of God the Father, of his onely son Iesus Christ, of the holy Ghost, of the Church, of the Sacramentes, of the ministry, of the Scriptures, of ceremonies, and of every part of Christian believe. Wee haue said that wee 
c  abandon and detest as plagues and poisons all those old Heresies, which either the sacred Scriptures or the ancient councils haue utterly condemned: that wee 
d  call home again asmuch as ever wee can, the right Discipline of the Church, which our Aduersaries haue quiter brought into a poor and weak case: That we punish al licentiousness of life and vnrulynes of manners by tholde and long continued laws, and with as much sharpness as is convenient and lieth in our power. That we 
e  maintain still the state of kingdoms, in the same condition and plight wherein we haue found them, without any diminishing or alteration, reseruinge unto our Princes their majesty and worldly pre-eminence safe and without empayring, to our possible power: That we haue so 
f  gotten ourselves away from that Church which they had made a den of Theeues, and wherein nothing was in good frame or once like to the church of God, and which themselves confessed had erred many ways, even as lot in times paste got him out of Sodom, or Abraham out of Caldie, not vpon a desire of contention, but by the warning of God himself: And that we haue preached out of the holy 
g  Bible which we are sure cannot deceive, one sure form of Religion, and haue returned again unto the primitive church of the ancient Fathers and Apostles, that is to say, to the first ground and beginning of things, unto the very foundations and head springs of Christes church.  

Confutation.  
a  THus thou mayst see Christian Reader the falsehood of these Defenders, who would persuade thee their heresies and new found gospel to be right faith and the religion of Christ, because in catholic countries it is not cherished and much made of, as their desire is, but contrariwise resisted, put to silence, and by iustice of Christian magistrates duly punished. Though Christ and the Apostles were evil entertained, suffered checks and reuylinges among the wicked Iewes, what argument maketh that for proof of their new fangled doctrine hated of devout people, and resisted of Christian princes, to be the truth? And what Christian man, that considereth the wretched and wicked conditions of the world at this day, will believe them, calling their lewd preachings the religion of Christ lately restored, and as it were coming up again anew? 
Math. 28. Christes religion was not lost before this new gospel came in. John. 14.  If this be true, how performed Christ his promise, where he said, he would be with the church all dayes to the worlds end? If Christes religion be now restored, then before was it lost. How then was the holy Ghost the spirit of truth obtained of the Father to remain with the church for ever? Christ is true, they being contrary to Christ, must needs be false. The holy Ghost came down from heaven, 
Act. 2.  and remained, and shall remain with the church to the end. They resisting the holy Ghost, and contemning the church, drive their followers from the holy Ghost, gather to the synagogue of Satan, and where their false gospel is received, there is all true religion of christ quiter abandoned.  

b  They crack they haue at large declared the whole sum and manner of their religion. Of the father, the son, and the holy Ghost,( whereof as yet by them of England no heresy is framed) they haue said somewhat that is true, we grant, yet is the same needles, and uttered after a manner not very agreeable to the old fathers. Their doctrine concerning the church, the sacramentes, the spiritual ministries, the authority of the scriptures, and the number and partes of those holy books, the ceremonies, and briefly almost every other parte of Christian religion is for some deal such, as offendeth godly ears, and that for good cause, and for the more parte found and tried false, erroneous, and heretical.  

c  Where as they say they haue abandoned and detested as plagues and poisons all the old heresies, 
They haue not abandoned all old heresies.  we haue declared that therein they say false, and that they haue raled out as it were of their graues sundry old detestable heresies butted many hundred yeres past.  

d  having loosed and brought to nought all holesom and godly discipline of the church, 
Disciplin● loosed.  whereby Christian people were kept in obedience and due order of life until these wicked Apostates broke loose out of their cloisters, now wanting other shift to excuse it, and knowing it so to be in conscience: without all blushing they do make to evident a lie, saying they haue called home again the right discipline of the church. Also that they punish all licentious living, and unruly behaviour by the ancient and long continued laws, whereas in dede their gospel being a doctrine of all fleshly liberty, and themselves altogether given to satisfy the lusts of their flesh with slaking the bridle to all pleasures, with a devilish policy use the breach of ancient order and discipline, to the furtherance of their pleasant gospel. And therwith win many negligent and unstable souls to their damnable sects, as the preachers of the primitive church won great numbers of good people to the faith of Christ with thexample of their holiness, with their martyrdoms and miracles.  

e  Likewise where they haue seditiously and traitorously begun many rebellions against their lawful magistrates, and dangerously shaken the states of sundry princes, and attempted diuers and pernicious enterprises against both imperial and also kingly majesties, and against the quiet of certain common weals, as we haue before in due place declared: now in their last Recapitulation putting the reader in mind, how they maintain the state of kidgdomes, how they keep unto their princes their majesty and worldly pre-eminence safe and vndiminished: what do they else, but call men to witness of their lying and falsehood, and after heinous sins and crimes committed, praise themselves of the contrary virtues?  

f  For excuse of their wicked departing from the catholic church, 
The Defenders excuse of their departing from the church. Math. 21.  they say as Christ said, of Salomons temple profaned by the Iewes, that the papists( by whom they must needs mean all Christian people for these nine hundred or thousand yeres) haue made it a den of theeues, that nothing was therein in good frame, or like to the church of God, that by our confession it hath erred. This say they with such spitefulnes of words as the devill hath inspired them with, and prove it never a whit, as we haue before shewed. Therefore let them not compare their going from the church with Lothes going out of Sodom, and Abrahams out of Caldaea, but rather with Iudas his going from Christ, and his Apostles. Neither haue they gone away from us by warning of God himself, as they say, but for fleshly pleasure, pride, and vain glory, and by intisement of satan, 
2. Tim. 2.  who holdeth them captives( as S. paul saith) at his will.  

g  Now that they be gone out from us, which were not of us,( as S. John saith) For if they had ben of us, 
1. John. 2.  they had remained still with us: what haue they to do, but to frame themselves a new church, to devise a new gospel, to invent a new religion? And this haue they done, and that with great speed, as sone as they came home from Geneua their Pathmos. 
The platform of the new English church.  For the platform hereof they haue made inquirye and search out of the holy Bible forsooth: from thence they haue taken their pattern. For as for the ancient fathers, were they never so holy, and never so learned, they were but men, and though they knew so much of the Bible as these men do, and more too by infinite measure, how much the spiritie of God reueleth the things of God more, then the spirit of man, more then flesh and blood: yet they might both be deceived and deceive, but the holy Bible, they are sure, can not deceive, and themselves searching for a new form of a religion out from thence, can not be deceived. Such special privilege of grace above al holy Fathers before our time they haue, if we may believe their own tale.  
And now they haue returned again( say they) to the primitive church of the Apostles, 
The new primitive church of England.  even to the first ground and beginning of things, to the very foundations and headspringes of Christes church, for these be their own words. So that whosoever is desirous to see the lively shape and form of the church that was in the Apostles time, let him behold and duly consider the congregation of these gospelers, 
This new English church how like it is to the primitive church, yea how far it passeth it. 1. Tim. 5.  and he shall say they be so like, as if they had been thrust out of the primitive churches backdore. Nay, may they not seem not only like, but also to pass the primitive church? The fathers of the primitive church took order that a few weak old widows of three score yeres and upward should serve in the church, being provided of a competent diet and chamber by themselves a parte. The fathers of our new primitive church take order, that a great nombre of lusty young women not widows, nor maides, nor wedded wives a great meany of them, serve in their congregations well and bountifully provided for. As for their diet they fare of the best. And as for their lodging, 
The fervent charity of these new primitive churches fathers.  what shall I say? The charity of these new primitive churches fathers is so fervent, that rather then they should lie alone, they will spare them parte of their own beds. O holy new primitive church. The comparison between both these primitive churches might be followed more at large, but I covet to be short, and the opportunity of this place doth not permit.  

apology  And in very troth we haue not tarried for in this matter the authority or consent of the Trident council, wherein we saw nothing don uprightly nor by good order: where also every body was sworn to the maintenance of one man: where our Princes ambassadors were contemned: where not one of our divines could be heard, and where partes taking and ambition was openly and earnestly procured and wrought, but as the holy Fathers in former time, and as our predecessors haue commonly don, wee haue restored our Churches by a provincial convocation, and haue clean shaken of as our duty was, the yoke and tyranny of the bishop of Rome, to whom we were not bound, who also had no manner of thing like neither to Christ nor to Peter, nor to an Apostle, nor yet like to any bishop at all. Finally, we say that wee agree amongst ourselves, touching the whole iudgement and chief substance of Christian Religion, and with one mouth and with one spirit do worship God and the Father of our Lord Iesus Christ.  

Confutation.  soft Maisters, make not so great an oath for this matter. How be it swearing but by your trouth( as ye do) I trow ye forswear yourselves nomore then I should, if I sweared by my knigthod. For doing your things without tarrying for the authority or consent of the late Tridentine council, or of any other council or superior judge, such is your obedience and humility, we might easily believe you without any oath made at all. Your policy in government, your providence, your wisdom, your learning, your holiness, your spiritual gifts and graces be such, as ye haue no need to pass vpon any council, the authority, or aduise of any besides yourselves, what so ever they be. Yea rather the council of Trent, the consistory of Rome, all the universities and schools of the world should come home to you, take order of religion from you, haue their doubts determined by you, fetch their light of you, and stand at the beck of your superintendentships. For whither else should they go, seing that with you jerusalem is come to England, seing that the primitive church of the Apostles is by you there set up again, seing that ye haue found out of the holy Bible now in these latter dayes toward Antichristes coming, that, which was nowhere to be found these thousand yeres past, the first ground and beginning of all things, the foundations and headspringes of Christes church?  
Well, 
Gal. 2.  yet S. paul after fourtine yeres preaching( which is well near as long time as your church is old) went up to jerusalem, 
These new fathers follow not thexample of the primitive church.  and there conferred with S. Peter and the other Apostles. If ye will be sene so lively to represent the primitive church, why do ye not follow the example of S. paul, and conferre with the successor of Peter, having Peters authority and power, and with the other successors of the Apostles of late assembled together in council at Trent, as they were at jerusalem? What haue ye to say? Are ye wiser then S. paul? Are ye surer of the truth then he was? Though he were sure and yourselves sure also, yet should ye confer as S. paul did, lest ye should ronne or perhaps hitherto haue ronne in vain. O say ye, let Peter come to paul an other while, if he will, we will not go to Peter, nor to Peters successors. For we are as sure of the truth, as ever paul was, and seing we be so sure of the truth, and follow the lineamentes of the primitive church so exactly, and for all things be like to the Apostles: what need we go to any council and take advertisement of flesh and blood? This is the tale that the Fathers of this new found primitive church tell for themselves in excuse of their not coming to the late general council holden at Trent. Which is as true as that they say of the contempt of princes ambassadors there, of forbidding the divines of the new gospel to say their minds, of partes taking, of ambition procured and wrought, and of many other disorders, which their malice poureth out, their wit and reason can not prove.  
And having  told all the foresaid lies, as though they had proved their matter substantially, for their best defence against him that dareth to object any thing to them, they hold forth as a shield to cover them with, 
The provincial council of the new English clergy.  a weak defence God knoweth, their provincial convocation, which in their book they call a notable synod. By the authority for soothe of this notable synod they haue clean shaken of their obedience towards the church and Bishop of Rome chief pastor and judge over all Christes flock. And wote ye why? Mary because he behaveth himself not like Christ, nor like any Bishop at all. But we haue before declared their synod to be none. 
The Defenders notable synod is no synod at all for lack of bishops.  For their assemblies being without bishops, and themselves being cut from the church, and remaining as withered branches, be not to be name synods or councells, but conciliables, false packinges, and conspiracies.  
Neither haue they any reason at all, why thy should withdraw themselves from the obedience of their head and pastor, for that he doth not his duty, were it never so true: no-more then sheep haue to forsake their shepherd, and strey abroad into wilderness, because they see him perhaps a sleep under a bush.  
last of all concluding their recapitulation, leste they should at the very end and wyneding up of the matter seem mutable and leave their constancy of lying they make an, evident lie, saying, that they agree amongst themselves touching the whole iudgement and chief substance of Christian religion. Which thing how false it is, noman can be ignorant,( as I haue before proved) that either readeth their books, or knoweth the state of the countries, where their gospel hath his free course, or by any means understandeth their inconstant ianglinges, factious brawlinges, and tumultuous preachings.  
Wherefore O Christian and godly Reader, 
apology  forsomuch as thow seest the reasons and causes both why wee haue restored Religion, and why we haue forsaken these men, thou oughtest not to marvel, though wee haue chosen to obey our master christ rather then men. paul hath given us warning how we should not suffer ourselves to be carried away with such sundry learninges, and to fly their companies, inespeciall which would sowe debate and variaunces clean contrary to the Doctrine which they had received of Christ and the Apostles.  
Take heed Christian Reader thou be not beguiled. 
Confutation.  What reasons and causes so ever they bring there is nothing that may excuse thee before God, for departing from the catholic church. They haue not restored religion, as they say, 
Religion by the defenders not restored but destroyed.  for then were not Christ( who is truth itself) true of his promise. They haue dissolved and quiter destroyed religion, where their gospel is thoroughly received. Forsaking the church, they haue forsaken Christ, who saith of the rulers which the holy ghost hath placed in the church, he that heareth you, heareth me, and he that despiseth you, 
Luke. 10.  despiseth me. Wherefore the enemy of mankinde hath persuaded them to disobey Christ and to please men.  
As for the warning which S. paul giveth us, if all would follow it, these gospelers were quiter put to silence.  
long since haue these mennes crafts and treacheries decayed and vanished and fled away at the sight and light of the gospel, 
apology  even as the owl doth at the sun rising. And albeit their trumperye be built up and reared as high as the sky, yet even in a moment and as yt were of the own selue falleth yt down again to the ground, and cometh to nought.  

Confutation.  The church of Christ hath continued amost these sixtine hundred yeres, notwithstanding it hath ben barked at( as S. Augustine saith) by heretics on every side. 
De utilitate Credendi ad honorat. c. 17.  What they mean by our crafts and treacheries, we know not. All the partes of the catholic doctrine stand in authority and credit, for all the light of their gospel, which they crack so much of. The continuance of it for nine hundred yeres they aclowledge and confess themselves. If the same vanish and fly away at the light of their gospel, as the owl doth at the sun rising: where was this light so long space? Can God the Father of lights suffer mankind,( for whom his only begotten son  shed his blood) to remain nine hundred or a thousand yeres in damnable darckenes, until these wicked vowebreakers broke lose, and lewd lecherous friers ran out of their cloisters, and preached fleshly liberty? No man I ween believeth it, that hath any regard of his soul.  

apology  For you must not think that al these things haue come to pass rashly or at adventure: It hath ben Gods pleasure that against all mennes wills well nigh, the gospel of Iesu christ should be spread abroad through out the whole worlde, at these dayes. And therfore men folowing gods biddings, haue of their own free will resorted unto the Doctrine of Iesus Christ,  

Confutation.  No man that is wise and duly examineth the state of these times, thinketh that all these disorders in religion haue grown thus far without cause. The manifold sins of the world haue deserved so to be punished at Gods hand. 
Disorder in religion is for punishment of sins.  When it shall please his mercy, he will forgive, and not forget his people for ever. Then shall these schisms and heresies, which be the rod that we haue ben beaten with, and the auctours themselves be cast in to the fire. But what truth is in these men, it may appear also here, where they crack of their gospel, which they call the gospel of Iesu Christ, as though by Gods pleasure against al men it should be spread abroad through out the whole world at these dayes. For a few yeres past, they spake much of and commended their small flock, and made their fewness an argument of the sincere doctrine. Now that a great number of the lighter sort for carnal liberties sake hath taken it up, they brag of the whole world.  
But with what face challenge they all the whole world to be of their side? Haue they yet gotten in al germany, 
The Defenders do vainly to challenge the whole world for theirs.  where their first Apostle friar Luther that honest man began the Lutheran gospel with shameful sequel of filthy bauderie with his professed nun? Can they crack of Suitzerland, where Zuinglius with friar Huskine, and friar Pellicane, first set up the sacramentary gospel somuch impugned by the Lutherans? Of thirtine Cantons into which as into shires the country is divided, be there not six, which remain catholic, and under the obedience of the church? If they could never yet subdue to their gospel the whole countries where they began and haue continued most busily their preaching, they haue small cause to avaunt themselves of the whole world. Alexander the great hearing a philosopher say, there were very many worlds: wept, because he had not yet fully conquered one world. They knowing the world to be wide and large, and how small a portion it is that hath received their doctrine, no one whole country( if hartes were known) yet having voluntarily yielded unto them, they crack of the conquest of the whole world. Whereby it is clear, that Alexander was not so ambitious, as they be false and lying.  
And for our parts truly wee haue sought hereby neither glory nor wealth, nor pleasure nor ease. 
apology  For there is plenty of all these things with our adversaries.  

Confutation.  Ye do well Sirs to speak well of yourselves, for I ween none else will, that knoweth you. If ye sought not glory by your gospel, ye would never boast yourselves so as every where ye do. Neither mean I here friar Luther only, whose immoderate brags and cracks no man can be ignorant of, that readeth his vile books: but also even yourselves( good Sirs) that presume to take vpon you the charge of souls and government of the church in England. To spend much time and paper to prove it here, it is needles. The same otherwheres I haue partly touched. If ever were vain glory in men, it is to be sene, and in manner to be felt in the first founders and you the furthering preachers of this new devised gospel. 
Againeful gospel.  Whether ye seek wealth with your gospel or no, I report to the world. Your famous niggardness in keaping of your houses, your grating and scraping from your covenants, your pulling down of houses never built by you nor your predecessors, your selling away of ston, led, slatte, tile and timber, your woodsales without regard or care of the posterity, your buying of copy holds and poor mennes bargains for your wives children, your dairies, your breeding of swine unfit for bishops, but fit enough for such married superintendentes, your begging and craving of money and sacks of wheat of poor priestes in your dioceses toward your setting up and maintenance of house,( I speak of no more then is well known) a thing never practised no heard of among the catholic bishops: these and other the like your practices,( I could name the parties and circumstances but that I spare you, and my modesty suffereth it not) declare to all the world, that ye seek wealth. What shall I say of other ministers of your own new order? Your bare and hungry handy craftsmen and needy lewterers, who find sweetness in enjoying priestes livings, do not they seek for wealth at your gospel? What seek they else?  
Ye will say( I doubt not) all was not well before. Some things were amiss, I grant, but now is it much worse.  
Where ye add further, that hereby ye haue not sought pleasure nor ease, I think ye shall hardly make any wise man believe you in that point. 
That pleasure hath bē sought by professing of this new gospel.  First touching the founders of your gospel, whereas they were in manner all friers, and such as by solemn vow had bound themselves to a strait order of life, they had not so sone felt themselves inspired with the new spirit of your gospel, but forthwith ran out of their cloisters, forsook their order, broke their vows of voluntary poverty, obedience, and chastity, gave over rising at midnight, and all other Gods service, served the world and themselves, took to them yoke fellowes, and with them for their offences did such penance, as they enjoined themselves, and as their strompets did put them unto. As they began this dance, ye for your partes follow on. But ye seek not pleasure thereby. No, Christ knoweth. Ye take to you meetely honest and handsome young women to keep you company, be ye friers, monks, or secular priestes, young or old, poor or rich, very few excepted, and seing ye say hereby ye seek no pleasure, lest we should not believe you being restorers of the lost gospel: for your sakes we are content to say, ye do it for penance, and for example to the world of the evangelical austerity of life. O far ouersenne basil, Chrysostome, Ambrose, jerome, and all other holy fathers of times past from the Apostles age to this day, that never had mind to follow the trade of life, which these men be brought unto by the gospel.  

apology  And when wee were of their side, we enjoyed such worldly commodities much more liberally and bountefull ye, then wee do now.  

Confutation. The Defenders and their companions by their new gospel are come from poverty to wealth.  This is false saving your ministerships, for who may not remember what ye were for the most parte of you, before being known to be earnest in the spirit, ye came to bishoprics, deaneries, Archedeaconries, and other dignities and preferments of the church? Is it not well known, that some of you were friers, some monks, some secular priestes, some chapleines, some synging men, some needy scholars, and some schoolmasters? Your greatest Primate and metropolitan Cranmare, 
Crammare poor before he fell to be hote in the new gospel.  what was he( I pray you) before he took in hand to be a doer in your gospel, when he was first married in Cambridge, when he was a serving priest, when he waited vpon his master among serving men? Go through al who will, he shal find that where ye were poor being catholics, as in dede ye were never in that state esteemed worthy of any great preferment, so mean were your virtues: after that ye came to be gospelers, ye were by and by made ioyly fellows.  

apology  neither do wee eschew concord and peace, but to haue peace with man, wee will not be at war with God. The name of peace is a sweet and pleasant thing, saith Hilarius: But yet beware, saith he, peace is one thing, and boundage is an other. For yf it should so be as they seek to haue it, that christ should be commanded to keep silence, that the truth of the gospel should be betrayed, that horrible errors should be cloaked, that Christian mennes eyes should be bleared, and that they might be suffered to conspire openly against God: this were not a peace, but a most ungodly covenant of servitude. There is a peace saith nazianzen, that is unprofitable: again there is a discord saith he, that is profitable. For we must conditionallye desire peace, so far as is lawful before God, and so far as we may conveniently. For otherwise Christ himself brought not peace into the world, but a sword. Wherefore if the Pope will haue us reconciled to him, his dewty is first to be reconciled to God: for from thence saith Cyprian, spring schisms and sects, because men seek not the head, and haue not their recourse to the fountain of the Scriptures, and keep not the Rules given by the heavenly teacher: for saith he, that is not peace but war: neither is he joined unto the church which is severed from the gospel. As for these men they use to make a merchandise of the name of peace. For that peace which they so fain would haue, is onely a rest of idle bellies. They and we might easily be brought to atonement touching all these matters, were it not that ambition, gluttony and excess did let it: Hence cometh their whining, their heart is on their half penny. Out of doubt their claymours and stirs be to none other end, but to maintain more shamefully and naughtely ill gotten things.  
Now a dayes the Pardoners complain of us, the Dataries, the Popes collectors, the bawds, and others which take gain to be godliness, and serve not Iesu christ but their own bellies. Many a day a go and in the old world, a wonderful great advantage grew hereby to these kind of people, but now they reckon all is loss unto them that Christ gaigneth. The Pope himself maketh great complayncte at this present that charity in people is waxen could. And why so trow ye? Forsooth because his profittes decay more and more. And for this cause doth he hale us into hatred all that ever he may, laieng load vpon us with despiteful raylinges and condemning us for heretics, to thende they that understand not the matter, may think there be no worse men vpon earth then we be. Notwithstanding we in the mean season are never the more ashamed for all this: neither ought we to be ashamed of the gospel: for we set more by the glory of God then wee do by the estimation of men. Wee are sure all is true that we teach, and we may not either go against our own conscience, or bear any towns against God. For yf we deny any part of the gospel of Iesu Christ before men, he on the other side will deny us before his Father. And if there be any that will still be offended and cannot endure Christes doctrine, such say we, be blind, and leaders of the blind: the truth nevertheless must be preached and preferred above all: and we must with patience wayte for Goddes iudgement. 
Confutation. After what meaning they would be at concord and peace with the catholics.   
What jangle ye Sirs of concord and peace, whose whole profession is nothing else, but spite, malice, hatred and endless war against the church? Ye offer us peace, as the wolves offered to the sheep, so that they would be without foresees and dogges. Likewise if we could find in our hartes to forsake Christ, and depart from his church, then would ye join hands with us then would ye admit us into your synagogue. When the devil had taken our saviour Iesus up unto a high mountain, and had shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them: 
Matth. 4.  he said, all these will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. following your Father the devill, and taking us up as it were into an high mountain of faire offers, ye promise to haue concord and peace with us, if we will forsake the unity of the church, embrace your schisms and heresies, and come to be of your side. But as Iesus our master answered satan your master with vade Satana, avoid Satan: so we scholars of Iesus answer you scholars of Satan, 
an answer fit to be made at all the temptations of heretics.  with avoid Satans brood. Neither think we you worthy of any other answer to these blasphemies, which ye utter here against the spouse of Iesus, and consequently against Iesus himself, then of that wherewith he answered him, from whose suggestion they procede, vade Satana. Would God every good catholic man and woman would withstand Satans temptations suggested to them in your false intismentes and heretical persuasions, 
bishop bains answer to sir John Hooper.  with this constant answer vade Satana, as once that learned and holy bishop bain answered sir John Hooper the married white monk of Clyue, uttering your common blasphemies against the blessed Sacrament.  
To pass over certain your so oft repeated trifling, where you say, we use to make a merchandise of the name of peace, as thereby we know not well what ye mean, so are we sure that your merchandise and the wears of your occupation are lies, 
A farthel of lies, a dunghill of lies.  that whosoever first name your apology a farthel of lies, and your huge book entitled acts and monuments a dunghill of lies, he may seem to haue had as good reason for it, as thantiquitie had for the name by them given to any thing mentioned of Plato in Cratylo.  
Neither is it ambition, glottonie, and excess, that letteth an atonement to be made between you and us touching all these matters, as ye say. The farther we remove our hartes by Gods grace from the infection of those vices, the farther of we shal be from any atonement with you and all other maintainers of what so ever heresies, and so shal remain, until ye and they forsake heresies, embrace the truth, and return to be at a perfit atonement with the catholic church.  
Here I pass over your tedious repetition of that ye said already touching pardeners, dataries, collectors, bawds, and other your vain talk bestowed partly in spiteful railing against the Pope, partly in presumptuous craking of your gospel, which ye haue never done withall, rather gloriously speakink of it, then reasonably proving it to be the true gospel. doubtless ye are they as also other like unto you are, whom S. paul writing to Timothe gave warning to them that shall live in the last dayes to beware of and to shun, besides other words describing you with these: 
2. Tim. 3.  Habentes speciem quidem pietatis, virtutem autem eius abnegantes: They haue a show of godliness, but they deny the power thereof. Which power is affirmed to be in those that declare it by virtuous life, and good works.  
But whereas ye say that ye are sure all is true that ye teach, 
The uncertain surety which gospelers haue of the truth. In principio libelli aduersus Henricum regem.  how can ye make the world believe it? Touching many weighty points, ye are departed from the fownder of your gospel Martin Luther. Saith he not, Certus sum dogmata mea habere me de caelo, I am sure that I haue my doctrine from heaven? Your doctrine and Luthers is most contrary concerning the presence of Christ in the Sacrament. He is sure, and ye ar sure, whom shal the people believe? the master, or the scholars? 
The gospelers hold contrary opinions, yet each one is sure of the truth.  Other manifold sects of our time which be derived out of Luther, be in sundry great points of faith as contrary one to an other, as fire and water. nevertheless every one most stoutly affirmeth, that they are sure of the truth. Yea and some certain great rabbis amongst them be sure of one truth this year, and sure of an other contrary truth another year. It is no new thing, those that most impugn the truth, to crack most of the truth. This hath ever ben the ancient wont of heretics. 
The craking of heretics. Haere. 76. In prescript. hereti. Lib. de utilitate credendi. Cap. 1.  Aentius the heretic said of himself( as Epiphanius writeth, I know God most clearly. Yea I know him so much, that I know not myself more then I know God. Tertullian writeth the like of martion, Apelles, and Valentinus. The Moniches were wont to promise to the followers of their heresies most assured knowledge of of the truth, as S. Augustine recordeth, whereby they alured many unto their sect. Of this boasting of having the truth, heretics in old time were both of others not without note of vanity and of themselves for vain glories sake commonly called gnostici, 
Gnostici. Epiphan. cont: Valentinian.  as much to say cunning men, or men of knowledge, even so as they of our time both desire to be called and be called, Euangelici, gospelers.  
Now how sure these Defenders are, that all is true that they say and teach, 
gospelers.  it may appear partly by this confutation of their apology, wherein by their own confession they haue shewed the growndes of their doctrine, and partly by answer I haue made to the challenge of their companion M. Iuell. wherein he craketh also as fast as the best of them all, of the certitude and assurance of his negative articles. 
Theffect of the apology.  If it be proved, that both he hath said more then can be maintained, and that the authors of the apology haue uttered many untruths touching doctrine of faith, falfefied sundried places of writers, the better to frame them to their purpose, belied stories, unjustly slandered men touching the honesty of their life, and through their whole book haue endeavoured to deface the truth, and bring the catholic church into contempt with falsehood and shamles lying: I doubt not but wisemen will believe them never the rather for saying of themselves, they be sure that all is true that they teach. And I trust so many as love the truth, fear God, think of their soul health, and understand what danger it is to be out of the church, will follow S. Paules counsel to Timothe, 
{αβγδ} 2. Tim. 3.  which is, utterly to refuse them and give ear to no parte of their false and perilous teaching.  
Let these folk in the mean time take good heed what they do, 
apology  and let them be well advised of their own salvation, and cease to hate and persecute the gospel of the son of God, for fear least they feel him once a redresser and revenger of his own cause. God will not suffer himself to be mad a moncking stock. The world espieth a good while a gon what there is a doing abroad. This flamme the more it is kept down, somuch the more with greater force and strength doth it break out and fly abroad. The unfaithfulness shall not disapoincte goddes faithful promise. And if they shal refuse to lay away this their hardness of heart and to receive the gospel of Christ, then shall publicans and synners go before them into the kingdom of heaven.  
GOD and the Father of our lord IESVS CHRIST open the eyes of them all, that they may be able to see that blessed hope whereunto they haue ben called, so as wee may altogether in one, glorify him alone, who is the true God, and also that same Iesus Christ whom he sent down to us from heaven: unto whom with the Father and the holy Ghost be given all honour and glory euerlastinglye. So be it.  
Let these defenders also beware they flatter not themselves to much, because the time seemeth to serve them, 
Confutation. A brief exhortation to the Defenders.  and the world to laugh vpon them, because they play their part with commendation of a great number of the audience, with much bethanking of the Lord, with hearing of their praises buzzed forth. Let them call to their mind, they ar not yet come to the last pageant of their play, in which truly they shall not haue a theatre, a pulpit, a Poules cross, an audience after their own liking, where they may freely sell their smokes and glorious toys for the peoples vain praise and favour, where they may 'allure unto them and beguile light believing souls: but where they shal either stand or fall at the arbitrement of God only, whose iudgement shall not depend of the liking of the people, but of the inflexible equity of himself, who shall sit in iudgement not only vpon the deeds of every one, but also shall straitly examine the most inward and secret plainness or doubleness of every hart.  
God grant to them and to us of his infinite mercy, that we remain steadfast in our faith, stop the mouths of our aduersaries with a just and upright life, that we suffer all adversities what so ever shall happen unto us for the catholic faiths sake patiently: that they understand their errors, abbandon their heresies, cease to divide the church, and scatter abroad Gods flock to be praies for satan, whom Christ hath gathered together into one fold, yield to the truth, and return into the safe lap of the church again, that all contentions about religion ended, we may join in godly friendship, and attain to the chief grace of the primitive church so much spoken of, which is, that through perfit unity of the spirit we grow so together, that of us all there be one hart and one soul, nolesse then was of them: that from hence forth we be all together one Israel, nomore Iuda and Israel, nomore Roboam and jeroboam, nomore jerusalem and Samaria, that we resort nomore to Bethel and to jerusalem, but only to the temple of God in the holy city of jerusalem, which is his holy, catholic, and apostolic church dispersed through out the whole world, which Christ hath redeemed with the price of his blood. To whom with the Father and the holy ghost be all praise, honor and glory for ever. Amen.    
THE end OF THE CONFVTATION OF THE apology OF THE church OF ENGLAND.   

A TABLE OF THE special MATTERS contained IN THIS CONFVTATION GATHERED BY THE ORder of A.B.C. The figures signify the leaf. a, b, the first and second side.  

A 

Absolution. 

Power of binding and losing is in the catholic church only. 60. b.  
Absolution consisteth not in pronouncing the gospel as the new gospelers do imagine, but in exercising thauctoritie and power of the church. 61. b.  
The priest absolveth by way of commission, and not of his own authority. 72. a.    
apology. 

What is signified by this word apology. 1. a.  
Two unseemly faults found in the beginning of the apology. 5. a.  
The first part of the apology is but a flourish and a long talk of matter nedelesse. 11. a.  
The Apologies of thold fathers how they were lawfully published, and how this is rather a famous libel. 13. a.  
Two causes of making the apology. 21. a.  
This apology is set forth without all due order. 22. a.  
The trifling used toward th'end of the apology. 268. b.    
authority of fathers. 

The authority of ancient fathers confirmed by the four first general councils. 28. a.& 29. a.  
Arius heresy condemned by thauctoritie of fathers. 28. a.  
The authority of fathers confirmed out of S. Augustine. 30. a.  
The same confirmed out of S. Ambrose. 33. a.      
B 

baptism. 

baptism by Caluins doctrine is not necessary. 67. b.  
baptism very slenderly spoken of by the Defend●rs. 89. b.  
That in baptism sins be fully and truly forgiven. 89. b.    
Bishops. 

All bishops like in order of priesthood, but not in authority of regiment. 49. b.  
evil life taketh not away the office of a bishop, although it causeth him to lose his merit. 52. a.& 188. b.  
The new gospelling bishops lack both succession and lawful calling, so that, neither they now their ministers can lawfully minister the sacramentes. 57. a.&. 229. b.  
Twise married may not be bishop, and why. 75. a.  
A bishop is not able to do his ministery the better for that he is married to a wyfe. 76. b.& 241. a.  
What bishops be most ready to receive the new gospel. 301. a.  
The new gospelling bishops worse then Annas or Caiphas. folio. 302. a.      
C 

catholic church. 

Why the church is called catholic. 43. a.  
The true church never erreth. 2. b. 197. a. 260. b.  
How Christ alone is head of the church, and yet the same name is attributed to others under him. 44. a.  
That it is necessary there be here on earth one supreme head over the whole church. 45. b.  
How Peter was head of the Apostles. 48. b.  
The catholic church is not without lawful priestes, and therefore the English church is like shortly to be no church. 59. a.  
unity is one of the marks of the true church. 149. b.  
The Diss●nsions with which the catholic church is charged by the Def●nd●rs, are not of importance. 143. b.  
The roman church is the true catholic church. 195. b.  
The doctrine of the church can not be made better. 254. a.  
How heinous a crime it is to divide the church. 262. a.  
The gospelers apostasy and departing from the church. 262. b.  
The catholic church lack●th not learning and knowledge. 263. a.  
The church shall not fail for lack of good teachers and gouernours. folio. 329. b.  
The church is forsaken of protestants vpon light causes. 340. a.& b.    
Ceremonies. 

ancient ceremonies of the church abolished by the gospelers, and new of their own invention put in their places. 9. a.  
Ceremonies which the scripture, councils and fathers allow, rejected by the gosp●llers. 121. a.  
Ceremonies of the whole church can not be taken away by the authority of one realm. 121. a.  
What kind of Ceremonies be they which are not allowed by S. Augustine. 2, 8. b.  
The Def●nders can not away with Ceremonies, and why. 255. a.  
The catholics by keeping ancient Ceremonies do not put away the institutions of Christ and his Apostles. 256. b.    
charlemagne. 

charlemagne belied and falsely slandered of the Defenders. 328. b.& 329. a.    
commandments. 

The commandments of God are not impossible to be kept. 124. b.    
Confession. 

That outward confession of all mortal sins to a priest, is necessary. 68. a.  
Testimonies of the fathers for private confession. 69. b.  
recital of all mortal sins in confession is necessary. 70. b.    
Confirmation. 

Confirmation proved to be a sacrament. 88. b.    
Constantine. 

How Constantine the Emperour behaved himself in the first general council of Nice. 314. a.    
Contradictions of the apology. 

Folio. 312. b.& fol. 313. a. in the end of the first side.    
councils. 

Why the gospelers could give no voice or sentence definitive in the late general council of Trent. 21. b.  
provincial councils bind not all in general. 54.  
The 26. canon of the 3. council of Carthage truly interpnted. folio. 53. b.  
The canon of the Nicene council concerning the Sacrament of the altar truly alleged maketh for the catholics. 109.  
The council of Gangres falsified by the Defenders. 241. b.  
The council of Carthage likewise falsified 243.  
The gospelers contemn general councils, and yet would seem to esteem th●ir own particular convocations. 275. b.  
Of the general council holden at Trent. 277. b. 278. 297.  
The place of Nazianzen concerning councils answered. 278. b.  
The place of S. Cyprian of the coming of the common people to councils. 279. b.  
councils be not assembled in vain. 282.  
That protestants ought not to refuse to repair to the general Councells. 293. b.  
Six causes alleged by the Defenders, why they came not to the late general council, and the same confuted. 294. b.  
Ghospellers for not coming to the council bring like reasons, as malefactours do for not appearing in iudgement. 296. a.  
Christen princes be not shut out of councils. 297. b. 302. b.  
After what sort Emperours haue called councils. 308. a.  
The first general councils authorized by the Pope. fol. 308. b. and in the leaves folowing.  
Concerning the calling of the first general council. fol. 309. a. of the second, Ibidem b. of the third. fol. 310. a. of the fourth Ibidem b.  
How the bishops, and civil magistrates haue subscribed in councils. 316. b. and 317. a.  
That the council of Frankeford holden in Charlemaignes time was not against the use of Images, but against image-breakers. folio. 328. a.      
D 

david. 

david was no judge of spiritual matters. 306.    
Death. 

Death suffered for matters of religion proveth not sufficiently the religion to be good. 13. b. 22. b.  
The truth touching john Diazius death. 169.  
diverse opinions of king Ihons death. 184.    
Defenders. 

The Defenders complain of the fathers concord and agreement at the Tridentine council. 295. b.  
The D●fenders are refuted out of the places of Tertullian and Ireneus, which th●y alleged for themselves. 324. a& b.  
They are provoked to show their succession of Bishops according to the mind of Ireneus by them alleged. 324. b.& 325. a.    
Dispensation. 

What things are dispensable and what not. 130.      
E 

Emperours. 

Emperours were not the holders of councils the first 500. yeares. fol. 312. a.    
Excommunication. 

By what authority and against whom it is practised. 64.  
Excommunication is the uttermost and greatest punishment which the church doth or can use. 64. b. 225. a.      
F 

Faith. 

The faith of Christ when it was first preached both to the Britons and to English men, and by whom. 7.&. 267.  
Countries of late converted to the faith by catholic preachers. folio. 18. b.  
To believe in Christ, and that Christ is, are diverse. 40.  
faith applieth not the merites of Christes death, but maketh us meet to receive them. 115.  
faith is obtained sometimes by other mens prayers. 115. b.  
How true faith is lively. 126.  
The West church received the faith from Rome, and not out of Grece. 266. b.    
Fornication. 

That simple fornication is mortal sin. 157.  
The punishment of fornication in byshope, priest, and deacon, by the Canon law. 157. b.      
G 

gospel and gospelers. 

By the new gospelers doctrine bridle is given to all lewdness and liberty. 8. 34. 253. b.  
They aclowledge their gospel to haue ben of late begun. 15. b. 42.  
Their gospel began first of covetise. 15. b.  
Their predecessors what they were. 25.  
They use such a strange manner in uttering their belief, as the devils themselves may use. 39. b  
No holy orders among the gospelers. 56.  
The gospelers worthely compared to wicked infidels. 114. b.  
They disagree between themselves in matters of great sprite. 42. b. 141. 150 b. 151.  
They prevent those crimes, which are justly to be laid to their charge. 194.  
The gospelers church proved by scripture not to be the true church. folio. 212.  
They can not agree about their outward observances. 146.  
The gospelers negative and ablative divinity. 268.  
The new gospel is not set forth for Gods sake. 272. b.  
Of the gospelers notable convocation. 277.  
The gospelers would haue no general council at all. 313. a.  
The gospelers do bely Christ himself. 323. a.      
H 

Heresies. 

Old heresies renewed by the new gospelers. 7.&. 132.  
New heresies sprung out of the gospelers doctrine. 133. b.  
heresy insufficiently defined in the apology, and the same truly defined in the confutation. 24.  
The heresy of Nestorius. 28. b. 108.  
The heresies of Sabellius, Fotinus, Arius. 32. b.  
The heresy of Zuenckfeldius. 134.    
heretics. 

heretics challenge the name and estimation of the church. 2.  
heretics always pretend truth. 4. b.  
The gospelers justly called heretics. 24. b. 25. b.  
heretics of old time, as now also would be tried by scripture only. 28.& 36.  
heretics always refuse to come unto councils. 224. b.    
Hierom. 

S. Hierom belied, corrupted, and shamefully abused of the Defenders. 332. a.& b.      
I. 

Images. 

Images allowed by God himself in scripture. 121.  
image-breakers condemned by the 7. general council. 235.  
An answer to Epiphanius place commonly alleged against Images. 236.  
An answer to the pretensed council holden in germany by charlemagne against Images. 328. a.      
K. 

kings. 

The examples of kings in the old lawe, alleged of the protestants for government in spiritual causes, answered and confuted. Folio. 305. a.& sequen.  
The office of a king considered in itself is one every where. 307. a.  
What authority had Priestes and kings by the old lawe. folio. 307. b.      
L. 

lay. 

Why the lay Princes may not intermeddle as iudges in spiritual causes. 317. a. Item 320. a.  
lay men be not wonderfully excluded from councils. 296. b.  
A recapitulation of diverse causes why the lay Princes ought not be iudges in spiritual causes. 318. b.      
M. 

mass. 

How Christes passion is applied in the sacrifice of the mass. 116. a.  
Why so many Masses were not said at the beginning of christen religion, as are now. 129. a.  
What abuses haue crept in some countries into the mass. 207.  
The greeks haue mass without company communicating with the priest, which is called of the Defenders private mass. folio. 267. a.    
matrimony. 

Of matrimony. 73. b.  
matrimony proved to be a sacrament. 89. a.    
Moyses. 

How Moyses was both a priest and a civil Magistrate. folio. 305. a.      
O. 

Order. 

That order is a sacrament. 89. a.  
That there are two keys, the key of order and the key of jurisdiction. 66. a  
After holy orders received marriage never lawful. 75. b.      
P. 

Pardons. 

A brief declaration of Pardons. 250. b.    
patriarchs. 

The patriarchs of Assyria and of armoniac haue received the council of Trent. 329. a.    
penance. 

Of the sacrament of penance. 61.  
Secret penance done in the heart onely before God is not sufficient. 63. b.  
penance proved to be a sacrament. 88. b.    
Pope. 

In what case the popes sayings are to be taken for truth. 26. b.  
In what sense the pope may truly be called universal bishop. 55. b.& folio. 204. a.  
The vain fable of joan the pretensed woman pope confuted. folio. 164. a.  
Howe the Pope is above Emperours and temporal princes. folio. 178. b.  
Great honour done by Constantine the great to pope sylvester. 179. b.& 249. a.  
The Empire transfered from the East into the West by the authority of pope lo. 180. b.  
King Childerike of france deposed by Zacharias the pope, and Pipine advanced to the crown. 181. b.  
The cause of strife between Philippus Pulcher and pope Bonifacius. 182. a.  
The kyssing of the popes feet suffered, not commanded. 184. b.  
Examples of Emperours and French kings humility towards the pope. 185. a.  
The Pope cleared of the slander of cruelty toward francis Dandulus. 186. a.  
A vain fable imagened against pope Celestinus. 187. a.  
That the pope trode not on the Emperour Frederikes neck. 188. a.  
An observation for trial of truth concerning things reported by the popes. 188. b.  
The pope in spiritual jurisdiction oweth obedience to no prince. folio. 190. a.  
The chest of the popes breast which the Defenders mock at. 223. a.  
What S. Bernard thought touching the popes authority. 210. a.  
Of the popes temporal sword. 247. b.  
That the pope hath authority to call councils. 248. a.  
The pope rightfully confirmeth general councils. 282. a.  
The wisdom of the see apostolic. 284. b.  
Pope Liberius, Pope john the 22. and Pope Zosimus cleared of slanders. 285. b. 286. a.  
councils authorised by the Pope. 309. a. &c.  
How the Pope may be said not to err. 335. b.  
Why the Pope can not be like to Peter in all things. 337. a.    
Priestes. 

That priestes be spiritual iudges. 69. a.  
A priest may justly enjoy his living for serving at the altar. 111. b.  
The defaults of priestes ought to be punished in ecclesiastical courts. 298. b.  
Priestes are in spiritual matters above kings. 304. a.    
Princes. 

The government of Princes wickedly impugned by the Defenders and their fellow gospelers. 52. b. 152. a. 173. a. 176. 181. 183.  
A temporal Prince may not take upon him the office of a bishop. 299. b.  
The office of a Prince and of a priest is distinct. 301. b.  
No Prince before our time ever called supreme head of the church. 303. a.    
Purgatory. 

Reasons proving that there is a purgatory. 117. a.  
Purgatory proved out of S. Augustine. 118. a.  
Prayer and almos● for the dead presuppose purgartory. 119. a.  
What is that S. Augustine doubted of touching purgatory. 120. a.  
The greeks pray in their mass for the dead. 267. b.      
R 

Religion. 

The commendation of the Defenders new religion refeled. 322. b.    
Religious men. 

Religious men put no holiness in outward observances, as the Defenders imagine. 145. a.  
monks much praised of S. Augustine. 239. a.  
Of religious men in this age. 290. b.    
Rome. 

Of the courtisanes of Rome. 159. b.  
A true answer to the Defenders slander touching the harlots of Rome. 161. a.  
keepers of concubines be and ever haue ben punished at Rome. Folio. 170. a.      
S 

safe-conducts. 

safe-conducts granted forth for the gospelers safe coming to the council at Trent. 294. b.  
An extension of the safe-conducts pertaining to all in general. Folio. 295. a.    
Sacraments. 

diversity of iudgement in the gospelers about the number of Sacraments. 88. a.  
The sacraments by Caluins doctrine are superfluous to such as otherwise remember Christes death. 67. a.  
The sound and true doctrine of the Sacraments. 8●. a.  
The definition of a Sacrament. 8●. a.  
How Sacraments contain grace and power to sanctify. Folio. 86. a.    
The Sacrament of thaulter. 

The catholic doctrine touching the sacrament of thaultar. 91. a.  
Of communion under both kinds. 93. a.  
The body of Christ is not received by faith only. 95. a.  
Of transubstantiation. 95. b. 97. 99. a.  
The places of Gelasius and Theodoritus answered. 98. a.  
That place of the gospel( I behoveful not drink from hence forth of this generation of the vine) examined. 101. b.  
The lords supper more abased by the Defenders then by the catholics. 87. a. 90. a. 104. b. 254. b.  
The presence of Christ in baptism and in the supper is distinct and diverse. 106. a.  
S. Chrysostome acknowledgeth Christes very and real body present in the sacrament. 110. b.  
The feast of corpus Christi instituted against the gospelers ancestors. 112. b.  
Why the blessed sacrament is sometimes carried in Rome upon an horse. 113. a.  
The custom of carrying the sacrament where the Pope goeth is neither new nor strange. 114. a.  
Testimonies out of Origen touching the blessed sacrament. 234. a.  
That evil men receive the true body of Christ. 270. b.    
Sainctes. 

How the sainctes are patrons and intercessors for vs. 122.  
The intercession of the blessed virgin Marye. 122. b.    
Scripture. 

The scripture is wickedly made to serve evil meaning. 35. b.  
The true sense of scripture is in the catholic church. 36. a.  
The scripture confoundeth the gospelers doctrine. 36. b.  
All truth necessary to salvation is not expressed in holy scripture. Folio. 41. b. 83. a. 84. a.  
All the canonical scriptures are not embraced of the new gospelers. 81. b.  
Scripture is in dede a great deal more esteemed by the catholics, then by the gospelers. 213. a.& 220. a.  
Hosius purged of the slander wherwhith he was burdened concerning thauctoritie of scripture. 214. a. the same man purged of another slander. 288. b.  
In what case the people may be admitted to red scripture. 237. a.  
The fountein of Gods word was never stopped up by the catholics as the Defenders slanderously report. 264. b.    
synods. 

The Synod of the new clergy of England, was no Synod at all. Folio. 328. a.      
T 

Theodosius. 

What was great Theodosius opinion touching the determination of religion. 310. a.  
How Theodosius examined the controversy between the heretics and the catholics, and defined it. 315. a.    
Tradition. 

That tradition is necessary. 33. a.  
deniers of traditions holden for heretics. 83. b.  
The tradition of the church is a sure rule to examine doctrine by. Folio. 274. b.      
V 

unction. 

Extreme unction proved to be a sacrament. 89. a.    
vows and vowbreakers. 

The voluntary vow of chastity imbarreth from marriage, and not the church. 74. a. 78. a.  
Why marriage may hold after a simple vow of chastity, but not after a solemn vow. 222. b.  
The marriage of priestes and such like vowbreakers, is incestuous adultery and worse then fornication. 159. a. 160. b. 238. a.      
w 

works. 

The gospelers teach that good works help nothing. 125. b.  
That good works do help vs. 127. a.        

FAVLTES ESCAPED in printing.  
leaf. side. Line. Fault. Correction. 6. 1. 8. ye if will if ye will. 24. 1. 25. desiderous desirous. 33. 2. 16. eardy hardy. 38. 2. 36. Vigius Vigilius. 49. 1. 24. need meed. 63. 1. 8. boaund bound. 
Specially to be corrected.  116. 1. 23. 
Specially to be corrected.  of whom 
Specially to be corrected.  for whom 121. 2. 10. idiculous ridiculous. 160. 2. 23. marrying marrye. 171. 2. 21. regiously religiously. 179. 2. 3. hird third. 186. 1. 16. title little. 188. 1. 22. our your. 191. 2. 8. Fast East. 231. 2. 35. owe ifs how ifs. 238. 2. 28. obsertions observations. 253. 1. 26. ever. over. 258. 2. 26. hrases phrases. 258. 2. 27. arde guard. 259. 1. 29. out humanity out of humanity. 276. 1. 1. against. put it out. 279. 2. 29. mean doubtless mean is doubtless. 284. 2. 19. detestable detestable. 292. 2. 29. at Popes all Popes. 302. 1. 13. to be obey to obey.  

In the margin.  
111. 2. ult. haultar thaulter. 226. 1. 10. hospell gospel. 262. 1. 23. hurch church.    

QVoniam Apologia Ecclesiae Anglicanae cuius Confutatio hoc opere continetur, est pessima,& authorem huius Confutationis D. ac Magistrum nostrum Thomam Hardingum talem novi, vt eam solidissimam esse non dubitem: judico eandem Confutationem tutò& utiliter imprimi posse. id quod etiam viri Anglici Idiomatis,& Sacrae Theologiae peritissimi, a quibus diligenter lecta est& examinata, simul mecum iudicarunt.  
Cunerus Petri de Brouwershauen sacrae Theologiae Professor& Pastor S. Petri Louanij indignus. 10. Aprilis. An. 1565.