OBJECTIONS: Answered by way of Dialogue, wherein is proved 

By the Law of God:  
By the law of our Land:  
And by his Maties many testimonies   That no man ought to be persecuted for his religion, so he testify his allegiance by the Oath, appointed by Law.  〈◊〉 2.4. He shall judge among the Nations, & rebuke many people: they shall break their swords also into mattocks, & their spears into scythes, Nation shall not lift up a sword against Nation, neither shall they learn to fight any more. 〈◊〉 11.9. Then shall none hurt nor destroy in all my Holy mountain. ● Cor. 10.4. For the weapons of our warrfare, are not carnal, but mighty through God to cast down holds. 
Printed 1615.   

To all that truly wish jerusalem's prosperity, & Babylon's destruction, wisdom & understanding be multiplied upon you.  
IN these days if ever, that is true which the wiseman said. Eccl. 12.12. there is none end in making many books, & much reading is a weariness to the flesh: yet considering how heinous it is in the sight of the lord to force men and women by cruel persecutions to bring their bodies to a worship, whereunto they cannot bring their spirits: we thought it our duty for God's glory & the reformation thereof in this our own nation to publish this little writing following, wherein is manifestly proved by the law of God, the law of our land, & his Maties own diverse testimonies, that no man ought to be persecuted for his religion be it true or false, so they testify their faithful allegiance to the King. What shall men do striveing about matters of religion till this be ended. For if this be truth that the kings of the earth have power from God to compel by persecution all their subjects to believe as they believe then wicked is it to resist, and the persecutions of such is justly upon them, and the Magistrates that execute the same are clear from their blood, and it is upon their own heads: but if the kings of the Earth have not power from God to compel by persecution any of their subjects to believe as they believe (seeing faith is the work of God) than no less wicked is it in the sight of God to disobey, and the persecutions of such are upon the Magistrates, & the blood of the persecuted crieth unto the lord, and willbe required at the Magistrates hands.  
Wherefore in all humility, reverence and loyalty we do humbly desire of our sovereign lord the K: and all God's ministers under him, as judges justices of peace, etc. by whom this persecution is executed, themselves to consider, not whether herein they please lord Bbs: but whether they please the lord jesus Christ, who after a little while shall judge all judges, according to their works without respect of persons, and therefore are commanded to kiss the son lest he be angry & they p●rish in the way. psa. 2. our humble desire is, that they would consider what is testified in the scriptures: that, The kings of the Earth shall give their power unto the Beast, till the words of God be fulfilled them shall they take their power from her. If it be granted (as it is) that the kings of this nation formerly have given their power unto that Romish Beast, it shall evidently appear, that our lord the king and all Magistrates under him do give their power to the sane beast though the Beast be in another shape: For as that spiritual power or beast of Rome sets up a worship (as they pretend) for God, and force all thereto by cruel persecutions, the kings of the earth giving their power thereunto, so this spiritual power or beast of England sets up a worship (as they pretend) for God, and force all thereto by cruel persecutions, the kings Matie giving his power here unto. Oh that all that are in authority, would but consider by the word of God (which shall judge them at the last day) what they do, when they force men against their souls and consciences to dissemble to believe as they believe, or as the K: and state believes, they would withdraw their hands and hearts therefrom and never do as they have done partly through inconsideration, and partly to please lord Bbs: being in favour with the King.  
It cannot but with high thank fullness to God and to the king be acknowledged of all that the kings Matie is no blood thirsty man for if he were, bodily destruction should be the portion of all that fear God, and endeavour to walk in his ways as may be seen in the primitive time of this spiritual power or beast of England, after that king Henry de 8. had cast of the Romish beast, and since, (so far as leave hath been granted them) by hanging, burning banishing, imprisoning, and what not, as the particulars might be named. Yet our most humble desire of our lord the king is, that he would not give his power to force his faithful subjects, to dissemble to believe as he believes, in the least measure of persecution, though it is no small persecution, to lie many years in filthy prisons, in hunger cold, jdlenes, divided from wife, family, calling, left in continual meseries and temptations, so as death would be to many less persecution, seeing his Matie. confesseth that to change the mind must be the work of God. And of the lord Bbs: we desire, that they would a little leave of persecuringe those that cannot believe as they, till they have proved that God is welpleased therewith, and the souls of such as submit in safety from condemnation let them prove this, and we protest we will for ever submit unto them, and so will thousands: and therefore if there be any spark off grace in them let them set themselves to give satisfaction either by word or writing or both. But if they will not, but continue their cruel courses as they have done, let them yet remember that they must come to judgement, and have their abominations set in order before them, and be torn in pieces when none shall deliver them.  
And whereas they have no other colour of ground out of the scriptures, then that they have Canonized a law. viz: that whosoever shall affirm hat the K: Ma: hath not the same power ove● the church that the godly kings of Israel had under the law etc. Let him be excomunicate ipso facto. The unsound 〈…〉 s of which ground is manifested in this Dialogue following▪ wherein is showed their palpable ignorance in that they know not the mi 〈…〉 jay of God, and therefore have they made this canon in flattery to the king only to support their pride and cruelty: for if the kingdom or and of Israel, or Canaan now under the gospel be an earthly kingdom or land, or Israel now a worldly or fleshly Israel as both were under the law. Then we would confess there should be an earthly king thereof, but if the king some of Israel now be not earthly but heavenly, joh. 18.36. and the Isralites now not of this world. joh. 15.19. than the king thereof is not of this world, as they are not of this world. Ioh 17.16. and if these spiritual lords confess that Chr: & king now of the sand and people of Israel, but yet he hath left our lord the king h●s deputy to make such laws and lords over the church as pleaseth him: the word of the lord is against them ●ere is but one ●ord 1. Cor. 12.5. & one law giver. jam. 4.12. over his Church. Nay his Ma: himself is against them, who saith. There is no earthly monarch ever the Church, whose word must be a law, & saith further. Christ is his Church's monarch, & the holy ghost his deputy alleging luk. 22.25. the kings of the Gentiles bear rule one over another. etc. but I shall not be so among you saying further. Christ then he ascended, left not Peter with them to direct them in all truth, but promised to send the holy ghost to them for that end. etc. If any wish rebellions against the word of the lord herein, yet let them not be rebellious against the word of the king. Oh that any thing would prevail with them to make them leave of, these cruel courses of persecuting poor souls that desire truly to fear God, and are most faithful subjects to the king and desire also the salvation of the souls of these their cruel persecutors, who do seek their utter undoeing by all the forenamed persecutions, only because they cannot of faith offer up such worship to God as these spiritual lords command, and the rather let them leave of persecuting, seeing the kings Matie acknowledgeth. It is a sure rule in divinity, that God loves not to plant his church by violence & bloodshed. And if it be a law for all Christians, that in indifferent things one must not offend another, but the strong but forbear, rather than offend his weak brother, other wise he wounds the weak conscience & sins against Christ. 1. Cor 8. Then how much less hath any man power to be lord over the weak conscience, forcing it to practice that it hath not faith, in bringing it thereby unto same, and unto condemnation. Rom. 14. we do unfeignedly acknowledge the authority of earthly Magistrates Gods blessed ordinance, and that all earthly authority and command apperteynes unto them, let them command what they will, we must obey either to do or suffer upon pain of God's displeasure, besides their punishment. But all men must let God alone with his right which is to be lord and lawgiver to the soul, and not command obedience for God where he commandeth none. And this is only that which we dare not but maintain, upon the peril of our souls, which is greater than bodily affliction And only for the maintenance of Christ's right herein, do false Prophets and deceivers (who by that craft are clothed in fine apparel, and fair deliciously every day) labour to make us odious in the ears and eyes of Prince and people, knowing well that if they had not power by persecution to force men to dissemble to believe as they, their kingdom and pain would soon come to nought, the wickedness of which course is discovered in this writing following.  
For the manner, being Dialoguewise, we thought it the fittest in two respects. First, for the understanding of the simple, to whom especially Gods mysteries appertain, more than to the wise and prudent of the world. Secondly, because all the objections that we have met with, might be set down, and the playnelyer answered. And because we have faith and assurance that many will see and acknowledge the unlawfulness of tyramnyzing over the conscience, un persecuting the bodies of such as cannot be subject, we have also thought it meet to manifest the careful estate of such subjection, that they may deliver their souls, if they willbe saved: and also have set down the beginning of that old and good way, that john Baptist, Christ jesus, and his Apostles have left, unto all that willbe saved ●nto the end of the world. Beseeching that Almighty worker, that he would work in the hearts and consciences of men, that they may inquire for it, and that out of the scriptures, and walk therein, them shall they find rest unto their souls, although afflictions to their bodies. Oh 〈…〉 is time for the Lord to work, for they have destroyed his law, and have set up in many Nations such worship for God as best pleaseth them that are in authority, and have power to persecute the contrary minded. Let all God's people cry. How long Lord? when wilt thou come to destroy Antychrists' cruel Kingdom, and establish Christ's meek and peaceable Kingdom, as thou haist begun, even come Lord jesus by the Spirit of thy Moveth, and the brightness of thy coming, even come quickly. Amen.  
By Christ's unworthy witnesses, his Majesty's faithful subjects. Commonly, but most falsely called Annabaptists.   
Antichristian. 
Why come you not to Church?  Christian. 
What should I do there?  A. 
Worship God.  C. 
I must worship God as he requireth, and not as any mortal man requireth.  A. 
True, but the worship that we require you to offer up, is the worship, God requireth.  C. 
If it be so, I will withal willingness assent unto it, but my conscience must be satisfied there of by the word of truth, that I may have faith in it, other wise it is my grievous sai. Rom. 14.23. For I may not believe it so to be because you affirm it.  A. 
Well you must go to Church, otherwise you are disobedient to the law, & will fall under punishment.  C. 
But still remember that you would have me worship God as you pretend, therefore let us agree what worship God requireth: Christ saith. Ioh 4.24. God is a spirit, & they that worship him, must worship him in spirit & truth. Here we see what worship God requireth, viz: That we worship him with our souls and Spirits, and also that we worship him according to the truth of his word: And therefore for your book worship: If it were according to truth, (from the which it is as far as light is from darkness) yet if I cannot offer it up with my Spirit it is not acceptable to God, but most abominable.  A. 
Well you must come to Church  C. 
I pray let ask you a question, do you seek the glory of God, and the salvation of my soul herein, or your own obedience?  A. 
I seek the glory of God, and the salvation of your soul, & not my own obedience.  C. 
Then manifest it, no by words only, but by deeds and truth, which if you do, you will not threaten me punishment to cause me to come, but with meekness and patience satisfy my conscience by the word of truth, (for this is the duty of the Minist. of Christ. 2. Tim. 2.24.) that I may come with a willing mind, so shall I be accepted. 2. Cor. 8.12. Psal. 110.3. For if by threatening me punishment as imprisonment, banishment, or death, you cause me to bring my body, and not my spirit or soul, so shall I come near to the Lord with my lips, when my heart shall be far from him, which he accounteth vain worship and hypocrisy. Mat. 15.  A. 
I perceive what you aim at, you would have none brought to Church, but such as come willingly of themselves, so should every man worship God as himself pleaseth.  C. 
Your conclusion I aim not at, for I acknowledge that as there is but one God, so there is but one way of worshipping him, out of the which way, whosoever is and repenteth not there of shall pay a dear price, and therefore it standeth all Men upon not to please themselves in worshipping him. But you perceive aright that I aim at this, that none should be compelled to worship God: but such as come willingly for I will (by God's assistance) prove most evidently by the Scriptures, that none ought nor can be compelled to worship God to acceptance, by any worldly means whatsoever.  A, 
Prove that.  C. 
Well I prove that I have affirmed, thus: First Heb. 11.6. Without faith it is unpossible to please God, and Rom. 14.23. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. These two Scriptures prove most evidently that whatsoever I have not faith in inworshiping God although it were undoubtedly true, I may not offer it up unto God, for it is displeasing to him, and it is sin against him: as also it appeareth plainly by him, that came into the King's supper and wanted his wedding garment. Mat. 22.  A. 
It is the King's law that you must go to Church, & therefore you must be obedient.  C. 
The intent of the King's law is not so, as appear both by the statute for the oath of allegiance, and also by his Maties. own words, manifested in his Apology for the oath of allegiance, as hereafter is more fully declared. For if the intent of the law were to make me come to Church to worship God, and not of faith, the intent of the law were to compel me to sin, which his Matie. requireth not.  Antic. 
I deny not but whatsoever is not off Faith is sin, but we would have you come to Church, to worship God of faith.  C. 
It is not so, you regard not whether I have faith or no, for if you did, you would not urge the King's law against me, which is but a carnal weapon, and cannot beget faith, and therefore is no sure ground of faith. For in my obedience to God I must not presume above that that is written. 1. Cor. 4.6. For the Word of God is the only ground of faith Rom. 10.17. and therefore if you would have me come of faith, you would only urge the law of the King of Kings against me.  A. 
Hath not all the Learned of the Land considered of these things, & set them down, are such simple men as you likely to see more than all these?  C. 
I demand of you whether they be not all subject to ere as all men are, and therefore I must try their spirits, whether they oer or no. 1. joh. 4.1. For I may not hold, either that they cannot ere, or that if I find them to ere I must obey them notwithstanding, do you not herein teach me that Popish and accursed doctrine, that you invaigh so much against in the Papists, that I must believe as the learned of the land believes.  A. 
I do not hold that they cannot ere  C. 
Yes you hold either that they cannot ere, or if they do ere, I must obey them, for if I do not obey them you threaten me punishment.  A. 
Nay, but I hold that they being learned do not ere, & therefore you must obey them.  C. 
Then this is your argument: The learned do not ere, and therefore must be obeyed. The 2 bs: and the rest of that rank are learned and do not ere, and therefore they must be obeyed: another arg: as vain as this may be collected from this ground. The learned do not ere, and therefore must be obeyed. The Pope and the rest of that rank are learned, (yea as learned as yours) and do not ere, and therefore they must be obeyed. The one is as true as the other, but both abominable. If you prove that they that want this learning, must not meddle with the ways of God, but as these learned men teach them, than indeed you said some thing, but if you cannot, as most certain it is, you cannot. For the word of God is against you herein, then for shame to God and Men, leave of your cruel persecuting, for why do you persecute Men that cannot of faith submit to your direction concerning the ways of God, upon which consisteth their salvation if they walk in the true way of faith with love thereof, and their condemnation if they walk in by path.  A. 
Then I perceive if a man can plead that he hath not faith in any thing which the King commands he need not be obedient.  C. 
Would God all Men could see your dealing herein, this is your usual course, when your mouth is stopped by the power of God's word that you know not what to answer, than you run to the King's command, and so make your matters good, like unto your predecessors the wicked Scribes and pharisees, who when our Lord and Master had stopped their months that they had no word of answer, than they sought to make him a trespasser against Cesar, but I have learned in some weak measure, that as there is a Cesar unto whom of conscience I must be obedient, so there is another king, one jesus, that is King of Kings, unto whom if you will not be obedient in giving unto God that which is Gods, he will te●r● you in pieces, when there shall be none that can deliver you, & cast you into the lake that burneth with Fire & brimstone for ever more, where th●re shallbe no rest day nor night, and therefore agree with this your adversary quickly, whilst you are in the way with him.  
The power and authority of the King is earthly, and God hath commanded me to submit to all Ordinances off man.. 1. Pet. 2.13. ●4. And therefore I have faith to submit to what ordinance of Man soever the King commands, if it be an human Ordinance, and not against the manifest word of God, let him require what he will, I must of conscience obey him, with my body goods and all that I have: But my soul wherewith I am to worship God, that belongeth to another King, whose kingdom is not off this World Ioh 18.36. Whose people must come willingly. Psal. 110.3. Whose weapons are not carnal but Spiritual. 2. Cor. 10.4. etc.  Ant. 
Is this all the authority that you will give to the King?  C. 
What authority can any mortal Man require more, then of body, goods, life, and all that appertaineth to the outward Man? The heart God requireth. Pro. 23.26. He commanded to give unto Cesar things that are Caesar's, & to himself the things that are his. Luk. 20.25. Now if all the outward man be Caesar's, and the inward man too, so that he must be obeyed in his own matters, and in God's matters also, then tell us what shall be given to God? If you or any man will give him more power or authority than I give him, than you give him more than his Matie. requireth, as shallbe showed.  A. 
We do not say that the King can compel the Soul, but only the outward man..  C. 
If he cannot compel my soul, he cannot compel me to worship God, for God cannot be worshipped without the soul. joh. 4 24. if you say he may compel me to offer up a worship only with my body, (for the spirit you confess he cannot compel) to whom is that worship? not to God. Then consider you who they worship that are thus compelled, (say you by the King.) Let it well be here observed that you make the King a comaunder of such worship, as is not to God, contrary to his Maties. own mind manifest in his writings. But this you do, not to advance God's glory nor the king's honour, but your own cursed kingdom of darkness, which you hold by flattery and falsehood. For if this compelled worship (which is not to God) were taken away then your kingdom would fall to hell from whence it came, and therefore all Men map here see it is supported only by wickedness.  A. 
I confess the King's authority is earthly, but he is head over the Church under Christ.  C. 
God forbid that any mortal Man should so equalize himself with Christ, who alone is Head of his church, as the Husband is of the Wife. Ephe. 5 23. And hath left no o●e-gecent in that his office, for he is never absent from his Church. Mat. 18.20. and 28.20. All that any mortal Man can be, is to be a subject of his Kingdom, for their is but one Lord. 1. Cor. 12.5. & one lawgiver jam. 3.12. And that this is so, his Matie. confirmeth by his own testimony, in his Apology for the oath of allegiance Pag. 46.47. But as I well allow of the hierarchy of the church for distjuction of orders, (for so I understand it) so I utterly deny that there is any earthly Monarch thereof, whose word must be a law, and who cannot ere in his sentence by an infallibility of spirit●: because earthly kingdoms must have earthly Monarches, it doth not follow that the church must have a visible Monarch too: For the World hath not one earthly temporal Monarch, Christ is his Church's Monarch, & the Holy ghost his deputy. The Kings of the gentiles reign over them, but ye shall not be so. Luk. 22.25. Christ did not promiss before his ascension to leave Peter with them to direct & instruct them in all things, but he promised to send the Holy ghost unto them for that end. These are his highness own words, whereby it evidently appeareth his Matie challengeth no supremacy over the Church, but laboureth to overthrow that abominable exaltation of that Man of sin, in the Romish profession, for Christ hath given no supremacy in or over his Church, to any mortal man, but expressly commanded the contrary as the place of Luk mentioned by his Matie. plainly declareth.  
His highness is supreme head and gouvernor over all his subjects bodies and goods, within his dominions, and therein I detest and abhor all foreign powers whatsoever.  
But now for the thing in controversy betwixt you and me, of compelling Men by persecutions to do service to God (as is pretended) wherein they have not faith, it shallbe manifest not to be of God, in that Christ jesus himself, the only Lord and lawgiver to the soul, neither had any such power and authority, neither taught any such thing to his Disciples, but the contrary. First Mat. 28.18.19. All power is given me in Heaven & in earth. Go therefore & teach all Nations and 2. Cor. 10.4. The Weapons of our war fare are not carnal, but mighty through God to cast down Holds. etc. Here we see Christ hath no Worldly power, nor Worldly Weapons. 2ly. He practised and taught the contrary. When the Samaritans would not receive him going to jerusalem. Luk. 9 his disciples would have had fire come down from heaven & devoured them, Christ rebuked them & said, ye know not of what spirit ye are, the Son off man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And the Apostle by the Spirit of Christ: 2. Tim. 2.24. Comaundeth the servants off the lord not to strive, but to be gentle towards all men apt to teach, suffering the evil men patiently, instructing them with meekness that are contrary minded, proveing if God at any time will give them repentance that they may know the truth, & come to amendment out of the Devil's snare. etc. These Scriptures need no explanation for this most evident truth.  A. 
Well yet notwithstanding all this it is manifest in the Scriptures by the example of Thapostle Peter smiting Ananias and Saphira to death. Act. 5. & of Thappostle Paul striking Flymas the socerer blind. Act. 13 11. And also by delivering Hemineus & Alexander unto Satan for the destruction of the Flesh: that punishment upon the body may be used, & the flesh destroyed: For if it were lawful for them to smite to death, & the like, though by extraordinary means, than it must be lawful for us by ordinary means, since extraordinary means now failed, If you say it be not Lawful for us, than you must say it was not Lawful for them, & that were to accuse them of laying a false foundation, which none fearing God will affirm.  C. 
I dare not once admit of such a thought as to disallow the truth off that foundation which th-●oposties as skilful master builders have said: But for your argument of Peter's extraordinary smiting of Ananias and Saphira, he neither laid hand upon them nor threatened them by word, only declared what should be sand them from God, and therefore serveth no thing to your purpose, also that of Paul to Elimas, he laid no hands upon him, but only declared the Lords hand upon him, and the judgement that should follow. If you can so pronounce, and it so come to pass upon any, do it, and then it may be you may be accounted master builders, and layers of a new foundation or another gospel. And for Thappostle Paul his delivering Hymeneus and Alexander unto Satan. 1. Tim. 1.20. It was not by any temporal sword or power, but even by the power of our Lord jesus Christ, in his name, by the sword of the Spirit. 1. Cor. 5.4. And this was not extraordinary, but ordinary to continue in all churches to the end, and not to destroy the outward Man, as you teach and practice, but to destroy those justful affections, which dwell in the flesh, that so the flesh being mortified, the Spirit may be quickened and the Soul saved in the day of the Lord jesus. And whereas you say that as they did it by extra-ordinary means so you may do it by ordinary means, if you would use only those Weapons which Christ commanded his Disciples to use in this business, which are not carnal, we would agree with you herein. But if your ordinary means be such as Christ never had nor any of his Disciples, than it is a means of your own devisinge, for Christ hath all means whatsoever for bringing Men to the obedience of the truth.  A. 
Doth not Christ in the parrable Teach that he compelled all to come in?  C. 
I demand of you wherewith doth he compel them? he hath no carnal weapons, doth he not compel them by his word, Which is his two edged sword. Heb. 4 12. Revel. 2.12. Doth he smite the earth with any other weapons then by the breath off his lips. Esa. 11.4.  A. 
Well then you see compulsion may be used.  C. 
Yes, I confess to you such compulsion as much as you will, if when you have done you will walk in his steps, who when the Gaderens prayed him to depart he left them, and taught his Disciples: where they should preach the word of God, iff they would not receive them, that they should shake off the dust of their feet for a witness against them. Mat. 10.14. Which accordingly they practised Act. 13.51. and 18 6. etc. He never taught them to pull the contrary minded out of their houses and put them in prisons, to the undoeing of them, their Wives and Children: This was Saul's course when he was a blasphemer and persecutor. etc. Act. 9.1. etc. Christ taught his Disciples To wait though at any time God would give the contrary minded repentance, and not to prevent their repentance by seeking their blood.  
Indifferent man. I have heard you all this while, and by that I have heard, I see evidently that none ought to be compelled by any worldly means to worship God, neither can any be accepted in such worship, in that it is spiritual worship that he accepteth.  C. 
Blessed be the Lord, that you see it, I would not you only, but all Men did see that the sword of the Magistrate and all afflictions proceeding there from are only upon the outward man and cannot convert a soul from going astray, nor beget faith it comes by hearing the word of God Rom. 10.17. And therefore is no instrument in this work. All that the Magistrate can do, is to compel me to bring my body for except their be a willing mind which no man can see, their is no acceptance with God, and therefore it is not God's glory, nor my acceptance with him they seek by forcing me, but merely their own obedience to God's great dishonour; and the destruction of my soul, if I should so do. But iff it would suffice them to bring my body, to that they call their Church, and require of me no worship: I will go when they will, only not when their false worship is performed. For I adhor the accursed doctrine off the Familists herein.  I. 
It is a lamentable thing to consider how many thousands in this nation there be, that for fear of trouble submit to things in Religion which they diseprove off.  C. 
Oh, whose eyes doth not gush out with tears, in the consideration thereof seeing in all that, God is highly displeased, and all those under the judgements of God everlasting though they repent not.  A. 
If it were as you would have it, that all Religions should be suffered, how dangerous would it be to the King's Person & State, what treacheries & treasons would be plotted?  I. 
Indeed that is a thing greatly to be suspected: but if permission of all religions should be cleared of that there is no question, but it might prevail with the King and State.  C. 
If it be not cleared of that than let all men abhor it. First: it is the commandment of him, who is the God not of confusion but off peace & order, and therefore to be obeyed. Mat. ●3. 30. Let the good & bad grow together unto the end off the world. Suffering the contrary minded patiently proveing if god at any time will give them repentance that they may acknowledge the truth. etc. 2. Tim. 2.24. Secondly: if the just laws in that behalf made be but duly executed, which is, that all his subjects should protest their faithful alligeance to his Maties. person. Crown and dignity, all that will not be obedient, let them be disposed of at his Maties. pleasure, and you shall see no such treacheries and treasons practised as hath been. First for all those that seek and practise in themselves reformation in Religion, sathan himself cannot tar them with the least jott of treachery: and for the Papists may it not justly be suspected that one chief cause of all their treasons hath been because of all the compulsions that hath been used against their consciences in compelling them to the worship practised in public according to the Law of this Land: Which being taken away, there is no doubt but they would be much more peaceable, as we see it verified in diverse other Nations, where no such compulsion is used, for if they might have freedom in their religion, unto their faith full alligeance to the King, the fear of the king's Laws, and their own prosperity and peace, would make them live more inoffencively in that respect.  I. 
Only the Papists are dangerous in that some of them hold, that Kings and Princes that he excommunicated by the Pope, may be deposed & murdered, by their subjects or any other.  C. 
For that damnable and accursed doctrine as we abhor it with our souls, so we desire all other may. And therefore all the Laws that can be made for the prevention of such exceecrable practises are most necessary. But now I desire all men to see, that the Bishops and we, justly cry out against this accursed doctrine and practice in the Pope and his associates: That Princes should be murdered by their subjects for contrary myndednes in Religion, yet they teach the king to murder his subjects for the self same thing, viz: for being contrary minded to them in their Religion. So likewise, as that accursed doctrine, is to be abhorred in the Papists, who teach, subjects not to be obedient to their princes that are excomunicate by the pope: even so is that accursed doctrine of the Bbs. to be abhorred, who Teach, Princes not to protect their subjects that are excomunicate by them, in not affoarding them either law or justice nor to bear testimony in any Court. Do not the Bbs: herein justify this accursed doctrine and practice in the Papists?.  A. 
There is great difference in the persons, for th'one are Princes, tother subject's, & subjects must be obedient.  C. 
Most true it is, but is it not also true that Princes must afford all their subjects justice and equity, although they be as heathens and Publicans? For if Princes be freed from doing right and justice and protecting their subjects, that be excomunicate, why are not subjects also freed from subjection and allegiance to their Princes being excomunicate, if, excommunication be Christ's Law to all alike that willbe saved, without respect off persons. And also, is not that law off Christ herein to be observed. That whatsoever ye would men should do to you, even so do you to them. Mat. 7.12. And therefore as Princes would that all their subjects should be faithful and obedient unto them: so ought Princes to be just and equal to all their subjects, in maintaining them in every just and equal cause between man and man: For, for his cause (not for Religion) saith Thapostle, the saints at Rome paid their tribute to Cesar their heathen Prince, who was against them in Religion. Shall they not escape damnation for this accursed doctrine and practice, and think you you shall? thou that judgest another, judgest them not thyself? By this it may appear as also by exceeding many other doctrines and practices how near you are to that bloody spiritual power, what pretences to the contrary soever you make.  A. 
It were a lamentable thing if that bloody Religion should be practised again in this Nation.  C. 
I acknowledge it a bloody Religion, but God hath cast down the power thereof in this kingdom, blessed be his name but I would you could see your own cruel bloody religion, but that God of his mercy hath restrained it by the kings Matie. who thirsteth not after blood. how many, only for seeking reformation in religion, hath been put to death by your power in the days of Q. Eliz: and how many, both then and since, have been consumed to death in prisons? y●a since that cruel spiritual power hath been sir ●p that not hanging, burning, exile, imprisonments and all manner of contempt been used and all for religion, although some for grievous errors, and yet you see not this to be a bloody religion: further you cry out of their bloody cruelty, the reason is because you will not be of their religion, and when you have done, are most bloody cruel (so far as is in your power) because we and all men will not be of your religion.  A. 
If men hold errors & will not obey the truth, do they not sin against God, & deserve punishment?  C. 
Yes, such deserve punishment, but God hath appointed their punishment, and the time thereof. Their punishment Rom. 2.8.9. To them that are contentious & disobey the truth, & obey unrighteousness shallbe indignation & wrath, tribulation & anguish shallbe upon the soul of every one that doth evil. Mark. 16.16. He that will not believe shall be damned. 2. Thes. 1.8. In flaming fire rendering vengeance unto them that know no God, & obey not the gospel of our Lord jesus Christ, which shall be punished with everlasting perdition from the presence of the Lord, & the glory of his power. The time thereof, the last place recited. vers. 7. When the Lord jesus shall show himself from heaven with his mighty Angels: and Rom. 2.5. The day of wrath. and vers. 16, At that day when God shall judge the secrets of men by jesus Christ▪ and Mat. ●3 40.41, At the end of this World the son of man shall send forth his Angels & they shall gather out of his Kingdom all things that offend, & them that do iniquity, & shall cast them into a furnace of Fire. etc. Here is showed the punisher the punishment, and the time thereof. This punisher hath commanded you to wait for their repentance (by his own example) which is in his hands to give them, and not to cut them of and send them to hell, as you teach and practice, which is contrary to God, who is patient towards mockers which walk after their lusts. 2. Pet. 3. Because he would have no man to perish, but would that all men whatsoever should come to repentance. but you (contrary to him) use all the means you can to cut Men of, that they might perish, in that you seek to destroy their bodies whilst they remain in their errors.  A. 
I confess that God commandeth Mat. 13 That the good & bad must grow together unto the end of the World, but that is in the Church.  C. 
Well: if that be the true exposition, I pray you why do you then excommunicate any out off your Church, contrary to your own acknowledge. And here let all Men take notice that by this exposition you overthrow your own excommunication quite, and accuse Christ for giving a rule. Mat. 18. and Thappostle Paul, and the church of Corinth for practising that rule. ●. Cor 5. In cas●ing out of the Church. For you say all must grow together to the end in the Church. But the exposition of the Lawgiver himself is against you, that the ●eild is the world. verse. 38. Yet in that you confess that the wicked and the Godly must be l●t alone in the Church unto the end much more in the world unto the end: For if the wicked pollute not the Church, sure it is they pollute not the world. This than you are commanded unto vers. 29.30. Nay, gather them not let them grow together unto the end of the world.  A. 
Let them come to Church, & they shall grow together unto the end.  C. 
Indeed I think so, hereby you manifest you regard not how wicked and ungodly men be, so they come to your Church, you will not destroy them, though they remain in their abominable lusts: but if they will not come to your Chur: let them be wheat or tars, you will gather them, and (as much as in you is) send them to bur●●n●. Herein all men may see, as I said before, that you seek your own glory and obedience, & not gods, and so exalt yourselves above God. 2. thes. 2  I. 
Well, I bless God, I see this as clearly as the sun shining in his brightness, that it is to fight against God to compel any contrary to their consciences to perform any service unto him, in that there are so many places of Scripture comaunding the contrary.  C: 
The whole new Testament throughout in all the doctrines and practices of Christ and his disciples teach no such thing as compelling men by persecutions and afflictions to obey the go gospel but the direct contrary: viz: to suffer at the hands of the wicked, when they were persecuted for righteousness sake to suffer it, when the unbelievers and wicked curse them to bless & pray for their repentance, & that God would forgive them, & never lay these sins to their charge, as our Saviour Luk. 23 34. Stephen Act. 7.60. and the rest did. And for a conclusion of this point, that your faith may be full herein, consider that we are to wait for the jews conversion, and not to destroy them.  I. 
It is true, that might give all men satisfaction in these things.  C. 
Oh yes, if Men had any regard of God or his word, they would never deal more in this thing: the lord (we see) Rom. 11. hath promised, that when the fullness of the gentiles is come in, the jews shall be converted: now if the jews who are such fearful blasphemers of Christ and his gospel, that contemn him and his Testament with all despite, if their conversion must be waited for, and that they may not be destroyed from the face of the Earth, than who may not see (iff they shut not their eyes) that the conversion off all is to be waited for: and that no man for blaspheming Christ and his gospel map be destroyed or afflicted by imprisonments, death, or any calamity whatsoever.  I. 
It is not to be gainsaied with any show of truth. I would God the Kings Matie would consider of this point, seeing that the cruel Bbs by useing his power, commit such sin against God in this thing both in persecuting them that cannot of faith yield, and also in foreeing them that do yield contrary to their consciences, to sin against God, and to perish, if they repent not.  C. 
I am persuaded, that if his highness did but once well weigh and consider it he would never suffer such high iniquity to be co●●i●ted against God contrary to his express commandment, and all to be done by ●he King's power, for nothing have they else to bear them out. The Lord persuade the hearts of his Matie and his posterity unto it, seeing his throne is established by him, that he and his posterity may sit & reign over these Nations and Kingdoms, till jesus Christ the comaunder of these things come in his glory to recompense every Man according to his works, without respect of persons.  A. 
If wicked malefactors should be let alone to the end of the world, then where is the Magistrates sword? it is of no force if evil men may not be cut of.  C. 
I acknowledge unfeignedly that God hath given to Magistrates a sword to cut of wicked men, and to reward the weldoers. Rom. 13 chap. But this Ministry is a worldly Ministry, their sword is a worldly sword, their punishments can extend no further than the outward man, they can but kill the body Luk. 12.4. And therefore this Ministry and sword is appointed only to punish the breach of worldly ordinances which is all that God hath given to any mortal man to punish. The King may make laws for the safety and good of his person, state and subjects, against the which whosoever is disloyal or disobedient he may dispose, of at his pleasure, the Lord hath given him this sword and authority, foreseing in his eternal wisdom, that if this his ordinance of Magistracy were nor, there would be no living for men in the world, and especially for the Godly, and therefore the Godly have particular cause to glorify God for this his blessed ordinance of Magistracy, and to regard it with all reverence.  
But now the breach of Christ's laws, of the which we all this while speak, which is the thing only I stand upon, his Kingdom is spiritual, his laws spiritual, the transgressions spiritual, the punishment spiritual, everlasting death of soul, his sword spiritual, no carnal or worldly weapon is given to the supportation of his kingdom, nor to punish the transgressors of the laws of this kingdom: The lawgiver himself hath commanded that the transgressors of these laws should be set alone until the harvest because he knows, they that are now tars, may hereafter come to repentance, and become wheat: they that are now blasphemers, persecutors, & oppressors as Paul was, may, by the power of God's word become faithful and a faithful witness as he was: They that are now fornicators etc. as some of the Corin: once were 1 Cor. 6.9. may here after become washed cleansed & sanctified as they were: they that are now to people nor under mercy as the Saints sometimes were. 1. Pet. 2.10. may hereafter become the people of god & obtain mercy as they did: all come not at the First hour, some come not till the eleventh hour, if those that come not till the last hour should be destroyed: because they come not at the first hour, then should they never come but be prevented.  A. 
Were not blasphemers put to death in time of he law? 1 evit. 24.11 etc.  C. 
Yes, an Israelite blasphemmy the Lord, or doing any thing presumptuously, which was blasphemy. Num. 15.30. no sacrifice to be offered for him: but would you from hence have the kings Matie to put all his subjects to death that conteinne the truth of Christ? If yea, see what will follow. All Papists ought to be put to death, who are direct blasphemers. Revel. 16 10.11 When the vial of God's wrath was powered upon the throne of the Beast: (which all England confess is meant the Popish power) they blasphemed the God of Heaven. etc. All the jews that speak many things blasphemously against Christ, aught to be put to death: Yea of what profession soever he be doing any thing presumptuously against Christ, aught to be put to death by your affirmation, no sacrifice to be offered, no repentance to be admitted, die he must under two or three witnesses, but that this is most false, Christ and his Apostles in his Testament doth manifestli declare as is before showed: was no Paul a blasphemer, yet received to mercy? But this the Holy Ghost teacheth from blasphemy under the law. Heb. 10. He that despiseth Moses Law, dieth without mercy under two or three witnesses, of how much sorer punishment suppose ye shall he be worthy that treadeth under foot the Son of God, & counteth the blood off the Testament as an unholy thing wherewith he was sanctified, & doth despite the Spirit of grace. Speaking of such as had received & acknowledged the truth. vers. 26. This is now the due proportion, an Israelite according to the flesh in the time of the law presumptuously sinning against God's commandment, by his command must die, by the worldly sword, no sacrifice to be offered for him: so in the new Testament or time of the gospel a spiritual Israelite according to the faith contemptuously or despitefully sinning against Christ's command he hath former acknowledged dispi●eing and contemning them, by his command must die by the spiritual sword, no repentance to be admitted, seeing he crucifyeth again to himself the son of God, & makes a mock of him. Heb. 6.6. David and Peter came not within this compass, though they sinned off knowledge, yet they did it not comtemteously or despitefully, but through frailty. If an Israelite under the Law did aught through ignorance as Num. 15. or through frailty as Levit. 6. There was sacrifice for him: so under the gospel an Isralit doing aught through ignorance or through frailty as Peter and Barnabas with the rest of the jews mentioned Gal. 2. or the me●steous person. 1. Cor. 5. There is repentance for him. This is it that confounds all true religion. That be cause it was so in the time of the law, therefore it may be so in the time of the gospel, by which reason, men might set up as truly the whole law as some part, and utterly abolish Christ. I pray you seriously consider what is here said.  A. 
Hath not the King the same ●ower that the Kings of Israel had who compelled men to the observation of the law of God?  C. 
First I answer you: that the kings off Israel had never power from God to set up any thing in or for the service of God, burr that only which was commanded by God Dewt. 4.2. No not so much as the manner of any law. Num. 15 16. and 9.14. and therefore this will not serve your purpose, that Kings may set up within their dominions such spiritual lords and laws for the serveing of God, no nor the manner there of as may best please themselves under what pretence soever, thereby making God for his worship subject to their pleasures. And his Matie. acknowledgeth that Christ's Church after the establishing of it by miracles in the primitive time, was ever after to be governed within the limits of his revealed will. Speech at Parl Anno 1609 Secondly the Kings of Israel might compel men to the sacrifices and ordinances of the old Testament, all which were carnal and purged not the conscience Heb. 9.9.10. as circumcision the passover etc: But no mortal Man whatsoever he be, can compel any man to offer the sacrifices of the new Testament, which are spiritual, and purge the conscience except he can beget faith in him, and convert his soul. The ordinances of the old Testament were to be performed by the posterity of Abra. according to the flesh that thereby they might be taught Christ: but the ordinances of he new Testament are to be performed, only by the posterity of Abraham according to the faith, that have learned Christ, and have put on Christ, and so having him, all things else appertaineth to them. But one thing I demand of you, who now is King of Israel?  A. 
I confess Christ is King of Israel.  C. 
Yes, Christ alone is King of Israel, that sits upon David's throne, and therefore mark the true proportion. In the time of the old Testament the Kings of Israel had power from God to compel all to the ordinances of God, or to cut them of by their sword from the earthly Land of Canaan, and the promises thereof: So in the new Testament the King of Israel Christ jesus hath power from the Father to compel all, to the ordinances of God, or to cut them of by his sword, from the Heavenly Land of Canaan and the promises thereof: The Kings of Israel only had this power under the law, and the King of Israel only hath this power under the gospel: And therefore whosoever will challenge this power under the gospel, he must be the king of Israel in the time of the gospel, which is particulier only to jesus Christ, unto whom all power in Heaven and in Earth is given.  
And let it be here well observed, that by this opinion of yours you make the Kingdom and ordinances of Israel under the Law, and the Kingdom and ordinances of Israel under the gospel alone, directly contrary to the whole Scripture, for the Kingdom and ordinances of Israel under the law were of this world, but the Kingdom and ordinances of Israel under the gospel are not of this world, as Christ the King thereof himself testifieth john. 28. And therefore you setting up a worldly King over this Heavenly Kingdom and ordinances, you and all of your profession declare yourselves to be of that worldly kingdom, and so to look for that Heavenly and spiritual King yet to come in the flesh, being of the number of those that deny him to be come in the flesh, anb so are deceivers and Antichrists, whatsoever you say to the contrary.  A. 
Well, yet I cannot see, but that as the Kings of Israel hath power from God to compel all their subjects, to the worship then appointed, so the King being a a Christian King, hath power to compel his subjects, to the worship now appointed.  C. 
You may see, if you shut not your eyes, that what power the Kings of Israel had under the law in matters of Religion, Christ jesus the King of Israel hath under the gospel: but I pray you let me ask you this question. You say the Kings Matie hath this power as he is a Christian King: My question is, whether it appertain unto him, as he is a King, or as he is a Christian?  A. 
Neither simple as he is a King, nor as he is a Christian, but jointly as he is complete in them both: for I grant that no heathen King hath power to compel in matters of Religion, but a Christian King hath.  C. 
Then you confess that of a Christian king may be deprived of his Christianity, (for of his Kingdom or kingly power, or any part thereof I affirm he may not be deprived) he hath lost this power you plead for, in compelling Men in matters of religion: what say you to this?  A. 
I confess if he may be deprived of his Christianity, he hath not this power I plead for.  C. 
Then, I demand this question, whether every Christian without respect of persons ought not to be subject to Christ's Laws for his salvation?  A. 
Yes, it cannot be denied.  C. 
Christ hath given his censure Excommunication, for the salvation of every Christian, that he that will not hear the Church, is to be as a heathen and a Publican, that is, hath lost all right and title in Christ, and in his Church, till he repent, now I know it camno. be denied, but every Christian whatsoever, is subject to sin, and so to excommunication to be as a Heathen: etc: If you say, that Kings either are not subject to sin, and to impenitency therein, and so to this censure of Christ, of excommunication, for their impenitent sin, then consider what you make them, and God you make a liar. If you grant (as you cannot deny) that Kings aswell as others, are subject to impenitent sin, and so to excommunication for the same, than they being deprived of their Christianity, by your own confession, they are deprived of power to compel in matters of Religion, the which if it were any part of their Kingly power, they might be deprived of a part of their Kingly power, by being excomunicate, consider what a wicked doctrine you teach herein.  A. 
Doth not the Prophet say: that Kings shallbe nursing Fathers & Queens nursing Mothers to the Church? And also it is said that kings shall hate the whore, make her desolate, eat her flesh, & burn her with fire. Where we see, that kings that have power & authority, shall destroy antichrist's kingdom, & nourish & cherish Christ's kingdom.  C. 
Most true it is, the lord hath spoken it, and therefore it ought to be great comfort to God's people but what is this to the purpose in hand, namely that Kings may persecute the contrary minded, the words of the Prophet Esa. proves that Kings and Queens that have formerly persecuted and destroyed the church, their hearts shall be turned by the power of God's word, to be lovers and preservers of the Church: and the other place Revel. 17.16. proves that Kings shall make that whore desolate, etc. not by their temporal authority or sword (as some say that make more show of religion than you do, although themselves be now persecuted, yet if kings were of their minds, would be as cruel as you, for they maintain the same thing) but by the spirit of the lords moveth, & the brightness of his coming. 2. Thes. 2.8. For this kingdom of Antichrist shallbe destroyed without hand. Dan. 8.25. only by the everlasting gospel, the true armour indeed wherewith the witnesses fight against the Antichrist. As the Kings Matie. acknowledgeth. Apol. Pag. 93.  A. 
You are so stiff against useing off outward weapons in Church matters, did not our Saviour Christ make a whip of small cords, & whip the buyers & sellers out of the Temple? And why may not we follow his example?  C. 
In this and many other actions of Christ our Saviour, we are to consider him as the fulfiller and ender of the law, as in the action of the Passover, & sending him that was cleansed of his Leprosy to offer to the Priest, the gift that Moses commanded, in which things we are not to imitate him, for by him the Ceremonies are fulfilled and abolished, and the everlasting gospel established, in the which we are to walk: and it were more than foolish to reason thus. Christ whipped wicked Men out of God's Temple made with hands, with whips made of cord, therefore we may whip wicked Men, out of God's Temple made without hands, with whips made of cord. There is a whole some doctrine to be collected from the Type to the Truth as thus. Christ drive out wicked Men out of the Temple made with hands, by a carnal or worldly whip, so Christ (by his people) must drive wicked Men out of the Temple made without hands, by a Spiritual whip. even his word, which is called a whip or road. Revel. 2.27. and Psal. 2.9. so is excommunication. 1. Cor. 4.21.  An. 
if freedom off Religion should be granted, there would be such divisions as would bread sedition, & inovation in the State.  C. 
Thus when your shows out of the scriptures are answered, than you run to conceits and imaginations, of sedition, innovation and the like, thinking thereby to dissuade Princes, and all t●, at are in authority there from, knowing else your kingdom of iniquity would fall But that it may appear to all that you deal deceitfully herein, let us consider first the scriptures, secondly behold the success, of suffering of of Religion free in other Counries. And first. Christ our Saviour, (who is that Prince of peace. Esa. 9.6. not of sedition) hath taught. Mat. 10. and Luk. 12. That he came not to send peace on the Earth, but debate, to divide Fyve in one house, two against three, & three against two, the Father against the Son, etc. And a man's enemies shallbe they of his own household. And his desire is, that the Fire of such sedition, should be kindled, where we see, this Prince of peace putteth difference in Religion, by preaching his Gospel, which some receive, as the savour of life unto them: others refuse it, and so become enemies unto the truth and witnesses thereof, as they did to Christ jesus himself, and his Disciples, and as you do to me and others. Secondly behold the Nations where freedom off Religion is permitted, and you may see there are not more flourishing and prosperous Nations under the heavens than they are.  I. 
The convocation of Bishops and the rest have made a Canon, that whosoever shall affirm that the Kings Matie hath not the same power in causes Ecclesiastical, under the Gospel, that the godly Kings of Israel had under the law, let him be excomunicate, Ipso facto.  C. 
Yes they have so. In the beginning off his Maties reign when they had got him sure unto them, of the which they so much doubted, as with my own ears I heard some of their chief followers say, when his highness was coming into England. Now must steeples down, & we shall have no more high commission. (with lamentation they spoke it) than they made this Canon, because their consciences are convinced, that they stand only by his power, and if his hand be turned, their Spiritual power of darkness falleth to the pit of darkness, from whence it came, and whether it must go, there being never so much means used for the supporting off it, for the strong Lord hath spoken it. Revel. 18. As for their sending Men to Hell (as they suppose) with their ipso facto excommunications, iff they had no stronger weapon for the supporting of their Kingdom, it would stand but a short space. If Israel now were of this world, as it was under the law, than they said something: but if it be not of this World, as it is not. joh. 17.14. Then the King is not off this world, for when this King came the worldly Israel knew him not.  I. 
I see evidently, that all are but cavels, and that no mortal Man can make any Man offer Sacrifices under the new Testament, until he be a believer, and converted, for he must be in Christ, before he may offer sacrifices, for in Chri: only the Father accepteth us: but what say you, have they not power to compel Men to come to the place where the word is publicly taught that they may be converted?  C. 
Well: than you see that the example of the kings of Israel (who had power to compel them to sacrifice, or to cut them of) applied to earthly Princes, is gone as a mere doctrine of man, and not of God. And for compelling men to hear that they be converted, we can learn of no better than of him, who if we hear not we shall have a dreadful recompense. He had all power in heaven and in earth for converting souls given un-him, and sent his Disciples, as his Father sent him. joh. 20.21. Charging them that when they should come into a City. etc. if they would not receive them nor their word, to shake of the dust of their feet for a witness against them, saying it should be easier for Sodom & Gomorah in the day of judgement then for that City or house: And so thapostles went from City to City accordingly. Here was no Temples made, nor worldly power to compel all to come unto them to hear the word off the Lord, but they commanded to go from City to City and from house to house.  I 
In those days the Magistrates were unbelievers but the question is where Magistrates be believers.  C. 
Christ had all power needful for that work if Magistracy were a power needful for that work▪ then Christ had not all power, magistracy is God's blessed ordinance in it right place, but let not us be wiser than God to device him a means for the publishing of his gospel, which he that had all power had not, nor hath commanded. Magistracy is a power of this world: the kingdom, power, subjects, and means of publishing the gospel, are not of this world.  A. 
A Goodly thing indeed that Men must go about the Country to preach.  C. 
In your estimation it is base and contemptible, your pomp and pride will not bear this, it is more ease for you to hunt after promotion, till you come to the highest in getting to be chief Bishop of Bishops within these dominions, and then cometh your fall, full low, if you repent not, but the wisdom of God hath appointed the chiefest Officers of Christ's Kingdom, even the Apostles, thus basely to go up and down, to and fro to preach his Gospel, yea that worthy Apostle Paul preached this gospel night & day with many tears openly & throughout every house. Act. 20.  I. 
But if this be thus/ as for my own part I am fully persuaded it is/ then I see the high commission cannot stand for as I take it/ it is only for causes Ecclesiastical.  C. 
So far as it is over Church matters, it is most unlawful, for the commission for judging and punishing of the transgressors of the laws of Christ's Church is given to Christ the Monarch thereof, a part whereof he hath left to his Disciples, which is no worldly commission or power, but only the power of the Lord jesus, the uttermost of which commission is excommunication. 1. Cor. 5.  A. 
The high commission is from the King, & dare you once call it into question.  C. 
If I do take any authority from the kings Matie, let me be judged worthy my desert, but if I defend the authority of Christ jesus, over men's souls, which appertaineth to no mortal Man whatsoever, then know you, that whosoever would rob him of that honour, which is not of this world, he will tread them under foot: Earthly authority belongeth to earthly Kings but spiritual authority belongeth to that one spiritual King who is King of Kings.  A. 
Well all your pleading will not serve your turn, either you must come to Church, or else go to prison.  C. 
I have showed you by the law of Christ that your course is most wicked, to compel any by persecution to perform any service to God, (as you pretend.) Now I desire also to show you, that the Statute law of the land requireth only civil obedience, and his Maties writings maintaining the Oath of alligience Testifieth the same.  
The law of the land requireth that whosoever cometh not to Church or receiveth not the Sacraments, the Oath of allegiance is to be tendered to them, which that it may be manifest to 〈…〉 that not only I, but all that profess the faith with me are most willing to subscribe unto it in faithfulness and truth, I have thought good to ●presse it.  

The words of the Oath. Anno 3. jacobi Regis.  
I. A. B. do truly & sincerely acknowledge, profess & testify, & declare in my conscience before God & the World, that our Sovereign Lord king james is lawful King off this Realm, & of all other his Ma: dominions, & Countries: And that the Pope neither of himself nor by any other authority of the Chu: or Sea off Rome, or by any other means with any other hath any power or authority to depose the king, or to dispose any off his Majest: Kingdoms of Dominions, or to authorize any foreign Prince to invade or annoy him, or his Countries, or to discharge any off his subjects off their allegiance, & obedience to his Majest: or to give licence or leave to any off them to bear arms, raise tumults, or to offer any violence or hurt to this Ma: Royal person, State or Government, or to any off his Ma: subjects within his Ma: Dominions. Also I do swear from my heart, that notwithstanding any declaration or sentence off excommunication, or depravation made or granted, or to be made or granted by the Pope or his Successors, or by any authority derived, or pretended to be derived from him or his Sea, against the said king, his heirs or Successors, or any absolution off the said subjects from their obedience. I will bear faith and true allegiance to his Majesty, his heirs and Successors, and him and them will defend to the uttermost off my power, against all conspiraces and attempts whatsoever which shallbe made against his or their persons, their Crown and dignity, by reason or colour off any such sentence or declaration or otherwise, and will do my best endeavour to disclose and make known unto his Majesty, his Heirs and Successors, all treasons and traitorous conspiraces, which I shall know or hear of, to be against him, or any of them. And I do further swear, that I do from my heart abhor, detest, and abjure, as impious and heretical, this damnable doctrine and position, that Princes which be excommunicated or deprived by the Pope, may be deposed, or murdered by their subjects, or any other whatsoever. And I do believe, and in conscience am resolved, that neither the Pope nor any person whatsoever hath power to absolve me of this Oath, or any part thereof, which I acknowledge by good and full authority to be lawfully ministered unto me, & do renounce all pardons and dispensations to the contrary. And all these things I do plainly & sincerely acknowledge, and swear according to these express words by me spoken, & according to the plain & common sense and understanding off the same words, without any equivocation, or mental evasion, or secret reservation whatsoever. And I do make this recognition & acknowledgement heartily, willingly & truly, upon the true faith of a Christian.  
So help me God.   A. 
This Oath was intended for the Papists & not for you.  C. 
It is not so. For his Matie at the last Session of Parli: Anno 1609. saith thus. Some doubts have been conceived anent the useing off the oath off allegiance, & that part off the Act that ordeynes the taking thereoff is thought so obscure, that no man can tell who ought to be pressed therewith. etc. And therefore if there be any cruple touching the ministering thereof, I would wish it now to be cleared. etc. And thereupon this statute was made Anno 7. Regni Regis jacobi. etc. Chap. 6. rowards the latter end.  
And if any person or persons whatsoever of & above th'age of 18 years do now stand or at any time hereafter shall stand, & be pretended, indited, & convicted, for not coming to church, or receiving the lords supper, according to the laws & statutes of this realm, before the ordinary, or any other having power to take such presentments, or indightments: or if the Minister, petty Constable, or Churchwardens, or any two of them, shall at any time hereafter complain to any justice of peace rear adjoining to the place where any person complained of shall dwell, & the said justice shall find cause of suspicion, that then any one justice of peace within whose commission or power any such person, or persons, shall at any time hereafter be, or to whom complaint shallbe made, shall upon notice there off require such person or persons to take the said oath. And that if any person or persons being of th'age of 18. years or above, shall refuse to take the said oath, duly tendered unto him, or hit according to the true intent & meaning of this statute that then the persons authorized by this law to give the said oath, shall & may commit the said offender to the common jail etc. where we see that if any take the said oath at their first apprehension, they are not to be committed, or if they being committed, take the said oath at the next open Court, they are to be set at liberty, if they will not take the said oath, to be in praemunire, as is at large in the statute declared, & as is daily practised with Papists, & others.  A. 
The King's Majesty requireth your allegiance to be testified by your coming to Church.  C. 
I pray let me demand this question, doth the K: require my coming to C: to worship and serve God, or to worship and serve the K: if to worship and serve the K: I am ready to obey: if to worship and serve God, which none can do, but of conscience, the King himself saith he never intended to say any thing to the charge if any for cause of conscience, and this coming to Church being a cause of conscience, if not he, why do you lay any thing to my charge, for the same. And therefore you wrong his Matie in thus affirming: For his highness requireth only my faithful allegiance to be testified by the afore said oath, and therefore hath ordained it, as I shall show by his highness own testimony. If I should come to Church, and not of conscience, but for other respects, as many Papists and other hypocrites do, to God it were most abominable and what faithfulness can be hoped for in such, towards his Majesty's person and state, can any Godly wiseman think that he that playeth the dissembling hypocrite with God, that he will do less with men, and will not work any villainy if it were i●●●● power, and therefore herein, you compelling 〈◊〉 by tyranny to bring my body, whereunto my spirit cannot be brought, you compel me to hypocrisy with God and man, for if my heart were not faithful in sincerity to his Majesty's Crown and dignity, as I take God to witness (before whom I must be condemned or justified) it is, these courses would rather hard my heart to work villainy then otherwise.  
Now for his Majesties many Testimonies in his writings, they are worthy to be recorded with thankfulness to the highest for guiding his heart and pen to write such things.  
In his Apology for the oath of allegiance pag. 4. he saith. Speaking of such Papists as took the oath of allegiance. And I gave a good proof that I intended no persecution against them for conscience cause, but only desired to be secured off them for evil obedience which for conscience cause they were bound to perform. & pag 60. Speaking of Blackwel the Arch-Preist he saith. I never intended to lay any thing to the said Arch Priests charge as I have never done to any, for cause of conscience. & pag. 127. he saith. First for the cause of their punishment, I do constantly maintain, that which I said in my Apology: that no man, either in my time, or in the late Queens. ever died here for his conscience: For let him be never so devout a Papist: nay though he profess the same never so constantly, his life is in no danger by the law. if he break not out into some outward act expressly against the words of the law: or plot not some dangerous or unlawful practice or attempt. etc. Where we may 〈◊〉 short what is the whole some that he req 〈…〉.  
And in his Majesty's speech at the last Session off Parliament Anno Domini 1609. where he saith he showeth his subjects his heart. he saith thus.  I never found, that blood, and too much severity, did good in matters off Religion, for besides: It is a sure rule in divinity that God never loves to plant his Church by violence and bloodshed, natural reason man even persuade us, and daily experience proves it true. that when Men are severely persecuted for religion, the gallantness off many men's Spirits, and the wilfulness off their humours, rather than the justness of their cause, makes them to take a pride boldly to endure any torments, or death itself, to gain thereby the reputation off martyrdom. though but in a false shadow. 
A most undoubted truth, which though it be (as most manifest it is by the Testimony of the Holy Ghost, throughout Christ's Testament as before is proved) then how cursed are all the rank off you, that continually break this sure rule off God, thus confidently acknowledged by his Majesty, planting your Church by violence and bloodshed forcing many thousands against their consciences to be off our Church, and to receive your Sacraments, by all the persecutions that would follow: if they did not yield, and those that fear God more than Men, and dare not yield, casting them into noisome Prisons: amongst most wicked Blasphemers off God, to the wounding off their souls: dividing them from their Wives. Children and Families, and from their callings some an hundredth miles and more, utterly consuming that substance they have, which sustaineth the blood of them their wives and Children: seldom or never affording them release, but either by yielding to you against their Consciences, or else by consuming their bodies to death, in prison banishment, or the like, leaving them and their wives to horrible temptations of adultery, in parting them, & their wives, and to all manner of evil in taking them from their callings, and so leaving them in continual Idleness. Is God's Church thus planted? or do Christ's Disciples thus plant?  I. 
Oh I● this spiritual power is little inferior in cruelty to the Romish spiritual power/ I pray how or why was this set up.?  C. 
Henry the 8. casting of Pope Clement the 7. and so the Pope's power Anno 1534. set up this Spiritual power under him: see Act. and Mo: pag. 1201. etc.  I. 
I pray you show the likeness between these two spiritual powers.  C. 
I will do my best endeavour which is but small.  
First, the Romish spiritual power doth make laws to the conscience, and compel all thereunto by excommunication, imprisonment, banishment, death and the like.  
This spiritual power doth the like, upon the like pennalties as all know.  
The Romish power doth give Titles to his Ministers, which are the Titles off God and Christ, as spiritual lords, great bishop and many more.  
This Spiritual power doth the like as all know.  
The Romish power doth set up Lords over their brethren in spiritual things, unto whom they command honour, and great livings to be given great Pomp and Pride.  
This power doth the like, as all know.  
I shall not need to speak of this, in that all books are full and all consciences (excepe those that are scrared with hot irons) convinced here off. Let but Master Fox, or any others who have described the spiritual power of Rome, let but their description thereof be compared with this spiritual power in all their laws, Courts Titles, Pomp, Pride, and cruelty, and you shall see them very little differ, except in their cruelties, which (glory be to God) the kings Matie. who thirsteth not after blood hath some thing rear a ne●, although it is most grievous cruelty to lie diverse years in most noisome and filthy prisons, and continual temtatione of want, their estates overthrown and never coming out many of them till death, let it be well weighed, and it is little inferior to the cruel sudden death in times of the Romish power in this Nation.  I. 
It is very apparent it is that image or similitude off that Beast spoken of Revel 13.  C. 
Oh yes, for their is no such image of the Popish power under the Heavens as this: well our comfort is, the strong Lord hath said. The Kings of the Earth (by whose power both the beast and his image is supported) shall take their power from her, then shall she stand naked and desolate, and to this purpose his Majesty hath a worthy exhortation to all Princes, etc. in his Apology. Pag. 103. The words are these.  
For as she did fly, but with your feathers, borrowing as well her titles of greatness, and forms of honouring her, from you, as also enjoying all her Temporal livings by your liberalities, so if every man do but take his own again, she will stand up naked, etc.  
Oh that the Words off GGD might be accepted off his Majesty, set down by the Holy Ghost Rom. 2.  
Thou that teachest another, teachest thou not they selff? For if he would take but his own, their titles of greatness and forms, off honouring them, and their temporal livings, this spiritual power would stand very naked and desolate.  I. 
Well the hearts off Kings are in the hands of the Lord and he can turn them as the Rivers off water/ but I desire your advice for my own estate: I know every one must be are their own burden/ I have a long time remained subject to this spiritual power/ partly through ignorance/ and partly through fear.  C. 
I will first declare unto you the judgements of God against such as submit thereunto, that so from an utter abhorring thereof you may come out never to return thither again. Secondly: I will do the best I can to show you the way the Lord requireth you to walk in, and that only out of his word.  
The judgements are so fearful as I tremble to think off them, greater then which, is not manifested in the whole book off God, Revel. 14 9.10.11. And the third Anngell followed them, saying with a loud voice, if any man Worship the Beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or on his hand, the same shall drink of the Wine of the wrath of God, yea of the pure Wine that is powered into the Cup of his wrath, he shallbe tormented in fire and brimstone, before the Holy Anngels, and before the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment shall ascend evermore, and they shall have no rest day nor night, which worship the Beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the print of his name.  I. 
I confess these judgements are to be trembled at/ but how do you apply them properly to such as worship in these assemblies?  C. 
For the satisfaction of all consciences herein that it may appear plainly, not to be gainsaid, let us consider the words of wisdom, set down in order as they lie. And first: what is meant by worship. 2ly: what by the Beast. 3ly. what his image is. 4ly. what his mark is: and lastly what is meant by forehead or hand.  
And first for worship, it is plentifully manifested in the scriptures, that it is service, subjection or obedience, to such things as are commanded by God, or others: as Mat. 4.10. Exo 20.5. dewt 13.4. and therefore his servants we are whom we obey. Rom. 6.16. and as the lord saith: Iff I be your master, where is my fear? if a Father where is mine honour or worship Mal. 1.6 2ly: by Beast, the scripture speaketh sometimes of cruel men in power and authority, as Dan. 7.17. Luk. 13.31.32.2. Tim. 4.17. Sometimes of a blasphemous spiritual power exercised by men, received off the Dragon exalting itself above God, making war with the Saints, and overcoming them, and that hath power over every kindred, and tongue, and Nation, so that all that dwell upon the Earth worship him. etc. And this is the Beast here spoken of, even that spiritual power or jurisdiction of Rome: which first wrought in a mystery, and by degrees was exalted, till at the last it was exalted to this cruel Beast described. Revel. 13.1. etc. Which Beast openeth his moveth to blasphemy against ●od, saying and practising, that the commandments that God hath given for his service, are not to be regarded, but in steed thereof setteth, up commands of his own, unto the which whosoever will not be subject, excommunication and all cruelty even to death will ensue, yea even with Gunpowder ere it fail, and for this his cruelty he is called a Beast.  
Thirdly: by Image is meant any form, shape similitude, or resemblance of the thing spoken of, as Deut. 4.15.16. etc. Exo. 20 4 so that where soever such a spiritual power is, as this above described, there is the Beasts Image, as in England, the like power or Beast to the first, is not to be found under the Heavens, in exaltation and cruelty.  
Fourthly: by mark, is meant profession or practice, whereby we are known from others as Mat. 7.20. 1. john. 2 2 john. 13.35. As badges or marks do put difference, betwixt this Man's and that Man's, in cattle or servants, as by such a man's mark we know these are his sheep, and by such a Man's badge. we know this man belongeth to such a great man: so they are said to have put on Christ, that have received his baptism. Gal. 3.27. even as a servant is known by putting on his libery.  
Lastly, forehead or hand, the holy Ghost useth that phrase from the Old Testament, where God's people were commanded, not only to lay up his Commands in their hearts and in their souls, but to bind them for a sign upon their hands. that they might be as frontiers between their eyes. Dewt. 11.18. and 6.6.8. The wisdom of God therein teaching, that the forehead and hand are the apparantest parts of the body, to the view of all Men: so that to receive the mark in the forehead or hand, is to make manifest profession of him we obey. The some of all which is, that whosoever openly professeth obedience, and subjection, to that Spiritual cruel power off Rome, The Beast, or to that Spiritual cruel power off England, his Image, (wheresoever they or either of them are exalted) such a one, and such persons shall drink off the wine off God's wrath, and be tormented in fire and brimstone, and shall have no rest day nor night for evermore.  I. 
Your description of the Beast/ the Papists will deny/ so will the English Lord Bbs: and their followers deny your description of his image/ but thousands will grant both: and some will deny both/ as the Familists/ who say/ that Religion standeth not in outward things/ and therefore they will submit to any outward service/ and they that do not so/ but suffex persecution (say they) are justly persecuted.  C. 
Those enemies to the Cross of Christ are most of them not worth enformation, because for the most part they are such as do with an high hand sin, after enlightninge, having forsaken the way wherein they walked, because they would not bear Christ's Cross, but in that some simple souls may be seduced by them let us a little in general compare their opinion with the scriptures.  
True it is, that religion standeth not only in outward things, for God requireth the heart: and truth in the inward parts, but that God requireth not our subjection (upon fearful punishments) to those outward ordinances which he requireth, is a doctrine of devils as I shall prove.  
And first, for the outward ordinances off the old Testament, which were merely shadows, & now are beggarly rudiments Gal. 4.16. what indignation the lord had towards them that transgressed. Nadab and Abihu, offering straying fire, which the Lord hath not commanded, a fire went out from the Lord, & devoured them, Levit. 10.1.2. The men off Bethsh●mosh lokeing into the outward ark which God had forbidden. Num 4.20. The Lord slew fifty thousand, & threescore and ten of them. 1. Sam. 6.19. Ozza, of a good intent leaning his shoulder to the same outward ark which God forbade, the Lord slew him. 1. Chro. 13. 7.-10. Ozziah the King offering up outward incense, which God commanded only the Priest Num. 18.3.7. The Lord smit him with leprosy until his death. 2. Chro. 26. Corah and his company: what fearful judgements came upon them (though he a Levite) for presuming to meddle with the Priests office, the earth opening and swallowing them up. Num. 16. King Saul, likewise offering up incense (in time off need as he thought) the Lord rend his Kingdom from him. 1. San. 13. as also for his disobedience afterwards touching the fat of Amelecks' cattle. 1. Sam. 15. How often was the wrath of the Lord powered down upon the Isralites: because off their transgression of his outward ordinances, in place, person, and things, for it was a Low. Levit. 17.3.4. That who so brought not his sacrifice to the place. viz: to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, but offered it up other where, blood should be imputed to that man, & he should be cut off from among his people: yea such sacrifices were esteemed off God, as offered to devils, verse. 7. & the lord caused them to pronounce. Dewt. 27.26. cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of their law. to do them. & all the people must say so be it: was God thus jealous of Moses ordinances, and is the less jealous of Christ's? must he die that despiseth Moses law, and shall he escape that despiseth Christ's? upon what pretence soever. And Christ saith. It becometh him & all his to fulfil all righteousness in outward ordinances as washing with water. Mat. 3.15. & whosoever saith, he knoweth God, & keepeth not his comaundments (which are outward, as well as inward) he is a liar. 1. joh. 2.4. & whosoever breaks the least comaundment, and teacheth men so, he shallbe called the least in the kingdom of heaven. Mat. 5.19. & whosoever will not hear that Prophet (Chr: jesus) in all things that he shall say unto them, shallbe destroyed out off his people. Act. 3.22.23. the affections of the soul are to be manifested by the actions of the body, according to God's word, and all other good intents or affections are abominable. We may not neither can we, Worship God with our Spirits, and the Devil with our Bodies: For We are bought With a price, and therefore must not be the Servants off Men, but must glorify God with our bodies, & with out spirits, for they are his. 1. Cor. 6.20. and. 7.23. And this may suffice to satisfy any concerning the over throw off this accursed conceit, knowing also that Christ and his Apostles, and all his Disciples to the end of the world, might, and may live peaceably enough from persecution, if this doctrine might be observed viz: submission with our bodies to any outward service. The Lord discover such Hypocrites.  I. 
I bless God I have learned of th'apostle 2. Cor. 13.8. To say nothing against the truth/ but for the truth/ and therefore when I see things are evidently manifested by the scriptures disirous to submit and not to cavil. But you know it is pleaded they have the word and Sacraments in the English assemblies.  C. 
I confess they have the scriptures, in the which Gods misceries are contained, which is locked up from them, and revealed to his Saints. Col. 1.26. which they woefully pervert to their own destruction: They have also imitations of God's ordinances, as water, bread and wine, and other things, which they use after their own inventions, which things maketh them boast so much of their Christianity and of their Church, and which maketh them reason thus.  
We are God's people, for we have the word and Sacraments.  
The Philistimes might better have reasoned: 1. San. 5. who had the true ark of God amongst them, these have but a show.  
We are God's people, for we have God's Ark and holy Oracles amongst us. But I think they had no great cause to rejoice there of in the end: No more shall these have in the end, when God recompenseth all that with hold the truth in unrighteousness. God's dealing is not now as it was of old, he now reserveth punishment to the last day, he is patiented, and would have men repent: but they despise his bountifulness and long suffering, preaching peace when there is no peace.  I. 
It cannot be denied/ but that the ministers preach many excellent truth's/ and do bring people to much reformation in many things.  C. 
True it cannot be denied. For if the devil should come in his own likeness, men would resist him, but because he transformeth himself into an Angel of light, therefore he deceiveth. So his ministers, if they should teach all lies, men would not be deceived by them, nor plead for them, but because they teach many truth's people receive them. but first: for whatsoever they teach, they neither could nor should teach publicly, their moveths should be stopped, if they received not that their power to teach such truths from those the Dragon sends, and therefore none can receive those truths from them, but they receive the devil by whose power they teach for as our Saviour saith Mat. 10.40. He that receiveth you, receiveth me, and he that receiveth me, receiveth him that sent me. So he that receiveth those the Beast sends, receiveth the Beast and he that receiveth the Beast, receiveth him that sent him, that is the devil. Further did not that Soothsayer Balaam, teach excellent truths? Num. 23.24. Chap. Yea the Soothsayers of th' Philistines the like. 1. Sam. 6. Yea those in the Gospel preach in Christ's name. Mat. 7.22, as many we testimonies might be manifested, and secondly. For their bringing off people to reformation, and therein doing great works, did not the Soothsayers before recited. 1. Sam. 6. show the Princes their sin, in deteyninge God's Ark and the judgements against them for the same, exhorting them to send it away, and not to harden their hearts, as Pharaoh and the Egyptians hardened their hearts? and was not reformation wrought hereby? and did not they that preached in Christ's name cast out Devils, and do many and great works? of whom our Saviour testifieth, he never acknowledged them. But let us a little consider wherein the reformation consisteth, procured by their preaching, in drunkenness, whoredom, swearing. etc. Moral duties, which things whosoever is not reform in, shall never see God's Kingdom, yet which things many of the Philosophers (that knew not God) abounded in, as they that know the stories cannot deny.  
But do they teach their hearers to hate vain inventions and love God's Law? in a general manner of teathing they may, but if it come to particular practice, you shall see what they will do: do they teach any to submit to that one law giver Christ jesus, for the guydance of his Church, and not to antichrist's abominations, no they will tell you, you must sigh and groan, till the Magistrate will reform: for you are a private person, and must be subject: and if the powerful working off God's word and Spirit prevail in you, to let you see, that the Magistrates not reforming, will not excuse you at the day off account, but that, that soul that comitteth abomination shall die, and that rather than you will Worship the Beast or his Image, you will suffer with Christ peaceably separating yourself from such open profanation as neither can, nor willbe reform, endeavouring to square yourself both in your entrance, and walking in Christ's way, unto that golden read, which he hath left for direction: then the best off all these preachers and reformers, willbe hot and bitter, labouring with all the turning of devices to turn you, and with hold you from reformation: And if they cannot prevail hereby, then publish you in their previleged pulpits, where none may answer them: You are a schismatic, Brownist. Annabaptist and what not, to make the multitude abhor your doings, and not to follow you therein, and some of them (iff not all) under a colour, procure your imprisonment, and trouble, by their Canonised lords, or some off their Heilish Pursuivants. And such preachers of Reformation are the best off them all.  A. 
Oh how have we been besots in these things for want of true knowledge and understanding from the Scriptures/ how have I and others satisfied ourselves with these things/ in that our estate was happy/ persuading ourselves thereoff/ when alas our fear towards God was taught by the inventions of men but the reason thereof was we judged our selves by our own persuasions/ and not by God's word.  C. 
I pray you let not that seem straying unto you, that people should persuade themselves of their good estate with God, when it is not so. The Isralites God's People thought their estate good, many times, when alas at it was otherwise, as the Prophets declared unto them yea our Saviour Testifieth, that they boasted of God being their Father, when they not so much as knew him. joh. 8.19. Yea when they were of their Father the Devil. vers. 44. The fyve foolish Virgins though their condition good enough, and that they should have been let in, but it was otherwise. Luk. 20, The wicked thought they did God service that killed Christ's Disciples. joh. 16.2. Man's heart is deceitful. jer. 17.9. who are more confident of their good estate with God than the Papists, notwithstanding all their gross abominations? even so have you and I (God pardon us) thought beyond all, that we were in a good estate, having such zealous teachers, that teach so many excellent truths under the Title of Christ's ministers, till we came to examine them, as the Church of Ephesus did Revel, 2. then we found them to hanve no other ministry then that they received from the Beast and his Image, which the Dragon gave. Revel. 13.  I. 
Are all without exception in this fearful estate to be cast into the laike that burneth with fire and brimstone?  C. 
All that submit, obey, or worship the Beast without exception, for their is no respect of persons with God. So saith the Lord: If any Man worship. etc. These (worshippers under the Beasts Image) may be divided into two sorts. First, those that ignorantly persuade themselves that all that is practised is good and acceptable to God. Secondly: those that see and aknowledg many things to be evil which they would gladly have removed, but because they cannot without the Cross of Christ, partly for that, and partly by the persuasion of their Prophets (that the things are not fundamenttall and the like pretences) all submit, and teach Men so.  I. 
Some affirm/ there be thousands in England/ that never worshipped the Beast etc. but be careful to keep the commandments of God, and faith of jesus.  C. 
Such are not under these judgements, but if there meaning be of any that submit to these ordinances appointed for these assemblies, such teachers preach peace when there is none, strengthen the wicked, that they cannot return from their wicked way, by promising them life, whose reward shallbe according to the reward of such false Prophets. Ezek. 13.1. and Chap. 14.10. because they follow their own spirit, and have not received it from the Lord. For thus saith the lord, Such shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God.  I. 
It is also affirmed by some/ that in respect of personal ●races/ some of the professors (as they are called) are the Children of God/ and may be communicated with privately/ though in respect of their Church actions they are members of antichrist's body to whom the judgements of God appertaineth.  C. 
This opinion proceedeth not from God's word, but from man's vain heart, by the suggestion of the devil, which that it my evidently appear, let us a little consider of it. In truth it is to say, that in one respect they have Gods promises aperteyning to them: in another respect they have Gods most fearful torments (pronounced against that Beast, and that false Prophet. Revel 19.20.) appertaining to them: In one respect they are God's people, serveing him their Master: In another respect the Devil's people serveing him their Master: In one respect, they shallbe saved, in another respect they shallbe damned: but what false doctrine this is, God's holy word doth discover. Our Saviour saith: No man can serve two masters, ye cannot serve God and Riches. Mat. 6.25. And can any serve Christ and the Beast, God and the Dragon? when Christ shall come at the last day to give to every Man according to his works, will he say to any one, In respect of thy personal graces, I will save thee, come thou blessed, (as he will say to all his Children) But in respect of thy being a Member of antichrist's body, I will damn thee, go thou cursed as he will to all that worship or obey the Beast? will not Christ jesus pronounce absolutely either salvation or condemnation to every one? And that according to this word joh. 12 48. so as God in his righteousness will either justify or condemn, every Man: so hath he taught us to know, that no Fountain can make salt water and sweet jam. 3.12. And therefore that by men's fruits we should know and judge them to be not both good and evil trees at one time. as this opinion teacheth, but either good or evil: always taking heed, we justify not the wicked, nor condemn the innocent, both which are abominable to the lord: and for any communion whatsoever with them, what fellowship hath Christ with Antychrist, the righteous with the wicked: the servant of the lamb, with the Servants of the beast? but I leave this for further answer to those who although they are nearer to this man, that hath published this opinion, them I am yet hath (according to truth) confessed in writing. That there is nothing to be expected from Christ, by any member of the Church of England, but a pow●ing out of his eternal wrath, upon them. Mr. De-Cluse. Advertis. Pag. 9  I. 
Well/ I praise God/ I am much informed in these things yet one thing more I will desire your answer unto. The case standeth thus with me. In these things I am betwixt faith and doubting/ though the rather/ I believe these things you say are true/ and that I may never go to these assemblies again without sin/ but I am not so persuaded thereof/ that I dare suffer for it/ what if I should (not having faith to suffer) for fear of persecution/ go to their worship again.  C. 
It were your most fearful sin, which I prove thus, and I pray you observe it well you must do it, either as being verily persuaded you do well, and then all this beginning of light in you should be extinguished, and so your estate is with the worst, if not worse: or else you must do it, doubting whether you do well or no: For I hope you will not say you do it knowing you do evil. If you do it doubting, the Lord saith: It is sin. Rom. 14.23. Which I hope you will acknowledge, and not approve yourself to do well in syning, and then God is merciful to forgive your sin, either this or any other. 1. john. 1.9.  
But iff you say you sin not therein doing it doubtingly, you make God a liar who saith: It is sin, & your sin remaineth.  I. 
What though I should many times go through weakness?  C. 
If you unfeignedly repent, being through weakness, there is mercy with God, though it should be seventy times seven times in a day. Mat 18.21.22. But we had need to take heed of our repentance. Thapostle saith, where there is Godly sorrow for sin, what care it worketh in you yea what indignation. etc. 2. Cor. 7. and custom in sin, is dangerous, we had need to take heed, we be not hardened, through the deceitfulness of sin. heb 3.13.  I. 
Then you how/ that if any Man approve himself in syninge/ his sin remaineth.  C. 
If any man sin, and say he hath not sinned. there is no truth in him. 1. joh. 1.8. and God will enter into judgement with him. jer. 2.35.  I. 
Then absolutely I see that if any man worship the beast or his image/ etc. as before you have showed/ he neither hath faith nor fear of God in him what show of Godliness soever he maketh. But what say you, man not a Man that separateth from all uncleaneness/ though he yet/ see not the way off Christ/ in his Ordinances may not such a Man be saved.  C. 
Yes, upon this condition, that he believe in jesus Christ for his only righteousness, and be willing and ready, to hear and obey his ordinances, example hereof we have in Cornelius. Act. 10. But if any will not hear that Prophet (Chr: jesus) in all things whatsoever he shall say unto them shallbe destroyed out of his people. Act. 3.22.23.  A. 
What do you mean by will not hear?  C. 
That when any part of the ways of God is manifest to them they despise, and contemn it, or carelessly neglect it, otherwise men may not receive some of Christ's truth, and yet not be said, that they will not receive it.  I. 
Next/ after forsaking the ways of wickedness/ and imbraceing Christ for our righteousness what must we do?  C. 
Christ's whole Testament teacheth this, and no other way, after repentance, from dead works, and faith towards God, to be baptised with water. Mat. 16.16. Act. 2.41. and 8.12.38. and 9.18. and a cloud of witnesses, calling these the beginnings of Christ, and foundation. Heb. 6.1. etc.  I. 
May none be admitted to the Church/ to partake in the ordinances, except they be baptised?  
If any teach otherwise, he presumeth above that which is write. 1. Cor. 4.6. and therefore aught to be held accursed. Gal. 1.8.9. For there was never true Church, since Christ's manifesting in the flesh, joined together of unbaptized persons though some have vainly published, the contrary.  I. 
True/ I think that cannot be denied/ where the people were never baptised/ but now the members of the Church off Rome from whence the baptism of the Church of England cometh/ are baptised/ therefore why need they again be baptised.  C. 
If they be baptised with Christ's baptism, I will acknowledge they need not again be baptised, but that the baptism of the Chur: of Rome. is Christ's baptism: that can never be proved, for Christ requireth that only his Disciple should baptize his disciple, and into his body. none of which is in Rome's baptism: For Christ's adversaries wash with water, those that are not Christ's Disciples, into the body, not of Christ, but of Antichrist.  I. 
I confess that the Church of Rome and members there of are the Church and members of Antichrist/ but they use the water and words in their baptism that Christ appointed.  C. 
What then: is it therefore Chr: baptism? the conjurers used the same words that th'apostles did Act. 19.13. etc. we adjure you by the name off jesus. etc. yet abominable was their action: also Psal. 50. Unto the wicked said God, what haist thou to do with my ordinances? or to take my word in thy moveth, etc. also the Papists use the same words of their Church, that Christ hath appointed to used of his, as also of their ministry, is it therefore Chri: Church and ministry? They use also the same washing water, and words in baptizing their bells, that they use in their baptizing their Infants, is it therefore Christ's baptism? If answer be made, bells are not to be baptized I answer no more are the seed of wicked persecutors, by our opposites own confession. Iff this were any thing you should see what will follow: the baptism of Rome is Christ's baptism, because they use water and these words: So if any use water and these words, as the jews or any other of Christ's adversaries as the Papists are, there is Christ's baptism, consider this and see what truth there is in it.  A. 
Though the baptism of the Chu: of Rome should be ●ought/ yet the baptism of the Church of England may be good/ in that there be many thousands that were never baptized in the Church of Rome.  C. 
I answer that the first beginning off the Church of Engl: was made of the members of the Chur: of Rome, as is apparent in the days off King H. the 8. and afterwards in the beginning of Q. Elizabeth's reign, after Q. mary death and so continueth unto this day, and the long continuance of it, maketh it not aproveable: and the Papists themselves did the Protestant's prove if they have or hold any other baptism Church or ministry, then that they have from them, and show it, and they will recant. Besides the baptism now practised in the Chur: of England, is no better no otherwise then that of Rome: For the Chur: of Rome baptizeth all the Infants of the most wicked that are in her dominions: and so the Chu: of England baptizeth all the Infants of the most wicked that are in the kings Maties dominions, and of this timber are both these Churches built, and therefore we may truly say: as is the Mother, so is the daughter. And as they are in their first building, so are they in the most of their laws, Lords Lawmakers, Courts, and thousands of their abominations in so much as it is plain enough, the latter is the very Image of the first, unto which, whosoever submitteth or obeyeth, or maintenieth their baptism, or any other of their humane trash, he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone for evermore, and shall never have rest day nor night. Revel. 14. & therefore in Gods fear cast away that cursed action of washing, where was neither Chr: disciple administering, nor his Disciple upon whom it was administered nor Christ's body or Church baptised into: and obey Christ's voice, in becomeing his Disciple, and to his Church, that you may be baptised by his Disciple, and be made a member of his body or Church. This only is Christ's baptism, and of him acknowledged and ought to be off all his Disciples, and the contrary to be held accursed, and in no sort maintained or kept.  I. 
It is objected/ that we must cast away that which is man's ordinance/ and retain that which is God's ordinance/ namely/ washing and water and words.  C. 
I deny that any thing in that action was God's ordinance or appointment, what truth is there in this: to say, that because God appointeth water, and washing, and words in his baptism, therefore howsoever water, and washing: and these words are used, that is Christ's ordinance. I confess water and washing, and words are God's ordinance, being used as he hath commanded, the which I acknowledge must be held: but this use of them, or action forespoken off being not the use of them, or action appointed off God (as the adversaries confess) is to be cast away as execrable.  I 
Further it is objected they repent of that which is evil and retain that which is good.  C. 
For the better discovering of this deceit, let us consider what is the evil then confess, and that they repent of, say they, an unlawful person, performed an unlawful action upon an unlawful person, this is the evil. Now this is the question whether this action thus unlawfully performed may be kept, and yet repent of. The scripture teacheth, that not only confessing, but foresakeing sin, is repentance. Pro. 28.13. Can a thief that hath stolen goods, repent thereof to acceptance with God, and not make restitution to the party wronged? being in his power, or having ability to restore, I would know how this will be maintained for the one is a greater theft than tother.  I. 
It is further objected/ that jeroboams followers had no right to circumcision in their idolatrous estate/ yet such as were circumcised in that estate/ were not afterwards circumcised when they came to repentance.  C. 
It is there foregery so to object, for either they had right to circumcision, being true Isralits' although in transgression, or else none had right to circumcision in the world, no not judah: For what can be said, but that because the ten Tribes were in rebellion against God therefore they had no right to circumcision: may not the same be said in as high a measure of judah? was Israel's sin half so great as judah's? If it be said that Israel forsook the place of God's worship the temple, so did judah to, worshipping under every Grene tree, and Grove, and high place: whatsoever can be said of the one, as much may be said of tother. This is a mere deceitful forgery raised up by Satan, in the hearts of his false prophets, to deceive themselves, and then that shall perish, if they repent not, in that they receive not the love of the truth, but believe these lies, and have pleasure therein, concluding from this false ground, that because the Isralites in transgression were circumcised, and after coming to repentance were not circumcised again: so Egyptians, Sodomites and Babylonians, never having been Isralites, baptised in the Synagogues of sathan, are not to be rebaptized, as they call it, there being no comparison betwixt the persons: th'one being true Isralites according to the flesh, God's people, to whom by God's appointment circumcision aperteyned, and who should have increased their transgressions if they had not performed it: and tother true Babylonians Gods adversarys, unto whom God threateneth his judgements, for taking his ordinances in their movethes or hands.  I. 
I see indeed there is no true proportion betwixt the persons in circumcision and baptism/ for the one were the persons appointed of God to be circumcised, which circumcision taught them the forsakeing of their wicked ways/ and bound them to the observation of the law. Gal. 5.3. And they had no cause to repent of that their action: thither are not the persons appointed of God to be baptised but sinned in that their action and must repent thereof by your opposites own confession. But if this be granted/ this question ariseth who shall then baptise after antichrist's exaltation?  C. 
For answer to this: there are three ways professed in the world, one by the Papists, and their several successors, professing succession from the Pope and his ministers: another by the Familists and scattered flock▪ that none may inter meddle there with lawfully▪ till their extraordinary men come: another, we and others affirm that any disciple of Christ in what part off the World soever commeing to the Lord's way, he by the Word and Spirit off GOD preaching that way unto others, and converting / he may and ought also to baptise them: the two former I shall through the help of God confute/ and confirm the latter by the scriptures.  
First to the Papists and all their several successors (some standing for all by succession from Rome/ some for more/ some for less/ some for nothing but Baptism/ being of our judgement for the appointing of their ministry. To them all I answer with the words of the lord/ Ps. 50.16. what hath antichrist's ministers to do to take God's word in their mouths, or to declare his ordinances, seeing they hate to be reform, and have cast God's word behind their backs. If they have nothing to do with his word and ordinances/ then not with ministry and baptism. Besides God hath foribidden that the adversaries of him/ his Temple/ and them that dwell in heaven should build according to that of Nehemia. 2.20. The God of heaven he will prosper us, and we his servants will rise up and build, but as for you, ye have no portion nor right nor memorial in jerusalem. 2. to that fantastical sect I answer. It is their dream and false vision/ to look for extraordinary men/ for God hath not spoken it. For if an Angel from heaven should come & preach otherwise, than those extraordinary men the Apostles have preached which none else could preach/ & which is written in Christ's testament/ we are to hold them accursed Gal. 1.8.9. which truth none need go into heaven to seek, but every one that searcheth the scriptures may find by the direction of the holy Ghost, which God hath promised to all that obey him. Act. 5, and ask it. Mat. 6.1.  I 
Now I pray you let me hear your confirmation of your practice.  C 
As it was in the second building of the material Temple, after the captivity of Babylon in Caldea, so according to the true porportion, it is to be in the second building of the spiritual Temple after the captivity of spiritual Babylon. Now this is observed in the former that every Israelite, with whom the lord was, and whose spirit, the Lord stirred up, was commanded to go and build Ezra. 1.3.5. though some were more excellent in the business than others. So now every spiritual Israelite with whom the Lord is, & whose spirit the Lord stirreth up are commanded, to go and build, and the Lord will prosper them in rising up and building, though some be more excellent in the business than others, the beginning of which spiritual building, is first to beget men a new by the immortal seed of God's word, so making them living stones, & thereupon to couple them together a spiritual house unto God 1. Pet. 2. upon the confession of their faith/ by baptism/ as the scriptures of the new testament every where teach, as before is showed.  I 
It is confessed of many/ that any that hath gifts may preach and convert but not baptise.  C 
Such our Saviour accounteth hypocrites, and reproveth Mat. 23. that held it was lawful to swear by the Temple but not by the gold on the Temple, by the altar, but not by the offering on the altar: to whom he saith, whether is greater the gold or the Temple that sanctifies the gold? the offering, or the altar that sanctifieth the offering? So may I say, whether is greater the water and washing, or the word that sanctifies the water?  I. 
What other example have you in the scriptures, that on unbaptized person may baptize?  C. 
If there were no other than that aforementioned, it were sufficient. An Israelite circumcised in flesh God stirring up his heart was to build, the Temple made with hands, from the first stone to the last, So an Israelite circumcised in heart, God stirring him up, is to build the Temple made without hands from the first stone to the last, beginning with, Go preach, and baptize, teaching to observe all that God commands, as Christ teacheth his disciples to the end of the world. But further we have the particular example of john Baptist, who being unbaptized, preached, converted, and baptised.  I. 
But john Baptist was an extraordinary man it willbe objected/ for God spoke to him extraordinarily.  C. 
what then/ Is not his practice written for our instruction? God hath spoken at several times after sundry manners Heb. 1.1. etc. Yet all to one end, as for this of john Baptist, the same God that spoke to john Baptist in the wilderness his word, the same God speaketh to us in his scriptures the same word he spoke to john, and there fore seeing the Lord hath spoken who shall not preach and practice according to his word, seeing now God speaketh to no particular persons, For what soever is written afore time is written for every man's instruction. Rom. 15.4.  I. 
Many famous men as Mr. Perkins and others confess, that if a Turck should come, to the knowledge of the truth in Turkey, he might preach the same to others, and ●●●erting them baptise them/ though unbaptized.  C. 
True, but this mystery of iniquity so prevaileth persuading many that they are Christians, because they had baptism in their infancy when it appertained not to them that they think their case is better than the Turckes, though alas it is much worse, for it shallbe easier for the Turks then for them if God's word be true. Are not all jews & Gentiles in one estate by nature, and is there more than one way of coming to Christ for them both namely to be the sons of God by faith and to put on Christ by baptism Gal. 3.26.27. who hath set up his new way? Christ or Antichrist?  I. 
Many of those called Brownists do confess that they are reasonable persuaded that Antichristians coming to the truth may be baptised/ and they would not differ with you concerning that/ but that you deny infant's baptism/ what say you/ may not the infants of the faithful be baptised?  C. 
No except God have appointed it.  I. 
You know it is granted that there is neither plain command nor example for it in Christ's Testament, but from the consequence of circumcision, in that covenant that God made with Abraham and his seed Gen. 17. and other places agreeing therewith.  C. 
Let us endeavour to put an end to this if it may be in short. I demand of you/ what covenant the Lord meaneth here. It must be granted he meaneth, either the covenant of the land of Canaan withal the promises thereof: or the covenant of Christ's coming of his loins concerning the flesh, or else the covenant of life and salvation by Christ, one of these three it must needs be, let me have your answer/ or any man's hereto.  I. 
The first and second cannot be pleaded, therefore it must be the third, namely life and salvation by Christ.  C. 
Well, than I demand, hath the fleshly childr 〈…〉 of the faithful, more previlege to life and salvation than the faithful themselves?  I. 
No I think it cannot be said.  C. 
Well, than I affirm that the faithful have right to this covenant of life and salvation only upon their repentance and faith, and not otherwise, & so have their children & not otherwise, except you will say they have greater previlege than the faithful: or else that they shall have life & salvation by their parent's faith: or else that they have right and title to it, whether they repent and believe or no. If any say they have right and title to it by God's promise. I answer God hath promised life and salvation by Christ to none that are under condemnation but only by repentance and faith: let any show the contrary if they be able. If any say as some foolishly have done, being urged/ that it is the covenant of the visible church: what covenant is that but the covenant of life and salvation made to the faithful, Christ's body and Church. And therefore seeing they are so confounded herein, some teaching one thing, some another: some that infants have neither faith nor repentance, but by virtue of the covenant made to their Parents: Others teach that repentance and faith is to be performed of every one that is to be baptized, & that infants may repent and believe by their sureties till they come to age themselves: seeing I say they are thus confounded herein, having nothing in Christ's perfect testament, only some show of a forged consequence, and also that they agree not among themselves. Let us take heed of profaning the Lords holy ordinance, administering it where he hath not commanded. Many other things might be said, but this may suffice, seeing much is already written, & more may be ere long: knowing they have nothing to say but their several conceits.  I. 
But what do you then hold of infants?  C. 
That they are innocents as Christ teacheth. Mat. 18.3. etc. & 19.14. etc. 1. Cor. 14.20. that they have no knowledge. Deut. 1.39. jonah 4.11. that God speaketh not to them, requiring any thing at their hands, Deut. 11.2. Mat. 13, 9 Rom. 7.9. 1. Cor. 10.15. and therefore they have not sinned, seeing sin is the breach of God's law. 1. joh. 3.4. Rom. 4.15.  I. 
Then you hold they shallbe saved.  C. 
Wherefore should they be condemned?  I. 
For that original sin, they have received from Adam.  C. 
Well. It is not my purpose now, time will not serve to answer all the objections that are made in this matter. In short I trust to cut down that conceit, that any infant should be condemned as thus. I demand of you, did any of Adam's posterity fall deeper in that transgression than he himself?  I. 
No I never heard it affirmed, but as deep as he.  C. 
Well, out of your own ground you shallbe convinced. Did God ever purpose or declare, that Adam for that transgression should go to hell? consider it well before you answer.  I. 
No, for from eternity he purposed that Christ should be betwixt that sin, and condemnation.  C. 
You say true: then for that sin, God never purposed to condemn Adam to hell: if not him for that, why any of his posterity for that? Let this be considered, it is your own ground. Further I say, and that without contradiction, it was never God's purpose that any should go to hell, but for refusing Christ. This is condendation that light (or Christ) is come into the world/ and men love darkness better. joh. 3.19. and Christ will condemn the world of sin, because they believe not in him. joh. 16.9.  I. 
I cannot contradict you in this, I will better consider of it, but I pray you what hold you then of Predestination?  C. 
If you conceive the former, you may see what I hold, namely that before all beginnings, it was God's purpose or predestination that, saltion should consist in the receiving, or believing in Christ, and condemnation in refusing of Christ. He that will not believe shallbe damned. Mar. 16. 16. and not otherwise.  I. 
Then you hold that God hath predestinated some to be saved, and some to be damned.  C. 
Yes, as I told you, namely the receivers of Christ to be saved: and the refusers of Christ to be damned, but that God hath predestinate or appointed some to the means & end, namely to be wicked and to be damned, is the most blasphemous conceit, that ever Satan foists into man's heart, or brain.  A. 
But are men left then to their own free will?  C. 
What do you mean by free will?  I. 
Ability of ourselves to do good or evil.  C. 
You say well, that truly is free-will. To do evil, and to resist God's word and spirit, we have free-will or power of ourselves, Act. 13.46. & 7.51. But to do good, or to receive God's word or spirit, we have no power of ourselves. God worketh the will and the deed hereunto. Phil. 2.13. we are both begotten again of God by his abundant mercy in Christ, to that heavenly inheritance & kept by his power (through faith) unto salvation. 1. Pet. 1.3 4.5. so that nothing appertaineth to us but shame, to him only appertaineth the glory for our life from death & for our preservation therein.  I. 
How comes it then that some do believe/ and some do not?  C. 
That any do believe I have showed you the cause, without the which none could believe, namely God's mercy in Christ, in quickening us that were dead by his powerful & lively word spirit: that some do not believe, the cause is, they having free-will to do evil/ & to resist Gods & word and spirit/ use the same/ and so do not believe. That any believe it is thus God's mercy/ that most believe not/ the cause is not Gods/ but their own wicked resisting will.  I. 
It is said/ that the reason why some believe not/ is because God doth not effectually call them/ as he doth the other: for if he did/ they should come.  C. 
This saying/ is partly blasphemous/ partly ignorant/ blasphemous/ in that it lieth the cause of their not believing on God/ in that he effectually calleth them not/ & maketh God a dissembler in his word/ who saith/ as he liveth he would have it otherwise: ignorant it is/ in that such people as so say/ know not Gods work in creating man: for if God had made Adam otherwise then he made him/ either unchangeably good or evil/ he must have made him either a God or a Devil: for if he could not have resisted God/ by his creation/ then what was he/ but as God/ unchangeable: and if he could not have resisted the Devil by his creation/ what was he but a Devil unchangeable? or if he could not have resisted God in eating the forbidden fruit/ how could God have manifested his mercy to him in Christ? or if he could not have resisted the Devil therein/ how could God justly pour out his judgements upon him/ for his obedience to Satan/ God creating him thereunto. Now for us Adam's posterity/ it is granted of all/ that we have the same will or power to evil that Adam had or rather worse/ though not the will to good he had/ and therefore men may and do resist God in his effectual calling of them/ as Adam did in God's effectual forbidding him that tree. God is no respecter of persons/ he calleth all effectually and in good earnest/ and whosoever holdeth otherwise he hath an evil conceit of God.  I. 
I praise God you have given me great satisfaction in these things/ what must we do after our baptism?  C. 
As the Saints our predecessors did. They that gladly received the word were baptised, and they continued in the Apostles doctrine, fellowship, breaking of bread and prayers. Act. 2. walking in fear towards God/ and in love in word and deed/ one towards another/ according to the blessed rules in Christ's Testament; and also justly and unblamably towards all men/ that they may cause their conversation aswell as their doctrine to shine before men/ that men may set their good works, & glorify their father, which is in heaven, without the which conversation all profession is nothing.  A. 
It is a great stumbling block to many/ that diverse/ who profess Religion walk corruptly in their conversation/ it is great cause that the wicked open their mouths against God's truth.  C. 
Alas, it is most lamentable, but God's people must know, it hath been and will be so unto the end of the world. And therefore hath Christ jesus appointed means for the redressing thereof in his Church. Mat. 18. & 1. Cor. 5. etc. And we may not justify or condemn any Religion whatsoever by men's personal walkings. May we say/ the Religion of the Philosopher's was good because of their moral ver●es? or that the Religion that judah and Da●●d professed was evil, because of judah's in●est, and David's adultery/ and murder. Gen. ●●. 2. Sam. 11. or the Religion of Christ evil/ because that one that professed it, fell into incest ●. Cor. 5. God's people had need to take heed assuming/ whereby to cause the adversaries to blaspheme, for the which God may make them examples to all succeeding ages.  A. 
I give you hearty thanks for your pains with me in these things/ and I trust I shall not let them slip but remember them all my life/ and put them in practice.  C. 
The glory and thanks thereof only be 〈…〉 ngeth to God, for to him it is due, but this I desire you to consider/ that the knowing of the 〈…〉 ll of God/ without practising of it/ doth us 〈…〉 there hurt then good/ the scripture saith. Not 〈…〉 he knowers but the doers are levied Rom. 2.13. ●am. 1.12. And he that knows his masters will & doth not shallbe beaten with many stripes. May there be in this nation (with grief of soul I speak it) that acknowledge and confess the truth/ but practise it not/ for some respects or other; the Lord persuade all your hearts to the speedy practice thereof/ and that by many examples that are left unto you. David that man of God saith, I made haist, & delayed not to keep thy commandments. Psal. 119.60. The Disciples Mat. 4. immediately without tarrying followed Christ. The three thousand the same day ●hey were informed obeyed the Lord and were baptised. Act. 2. The Samaritans Act. ●. 11 assoon as they believed were baptised both m●● and women. The Eunuch likewise ver 38. 〈…〉 jailor/ Lydia, Paul, and a cloud of witness 〈…〉 coming not with flesh and blood, but obey the Lord assoon as they believed. Here w 〈…〉 no staying to hear what this, and that learn 〈…〉 man could say against it, as now a days, but they were confidently persuaded thereof, th' 〈…〉 obeyed. And so I am assured it shallbe by lit 〈…〉 and little as the kingdom of the Beast diminisheth.  I. 
I hope I shall testify to all/ my speedy walking 〈◊〉 the steps of these holy men/ but one thing there is yet which hath much troubled me and others/ and in my judgement hath much hindered the growth of godliness in this kingdom and that is that many so soon as they see or fear 〈◊〉 will ensue/ they fly into another Nation who cannot 〈◊〉 their conversation/ and thereby deprive many poor ignorant souls in their own Nation/ of their information/ 〈◊〉 of their conversation amongst them.  C. 
Oh/ that hath been the overthrow 〈◊〉 Religion in this land/ the best able and great 〈…〉 part being gone/ and leaving behind them some few/ who by the others departure have ha 〈…〉 their afflictions and contempt increased which hath been the cause of many falling back/ and o● the adversaries exalting/ but they will tell us we are not to judge things/ by the effects/ therefore we must prove that their flight unlawful or we say nothing.  
And first/ whereas it is said by some of these fliers/ that many of the people of God fled into foreign country's/ and that God gave approbation thereof/ as Moses/ David/ our Saviour Christ in his infancy/ & others/ thinking here●y to justify this their flight. I answer/ God ●eserved Moses and the rest in their flight/ till betime was come that he employed them in his ●●rvice/ then in no case he would suffer them to 〈…〉 e/ as when Moses manifested his exceeding ackwardnes to the Lords work in helping his people out of bondage using many excuses/ the Lord was very angry with him Exod. 4.10.— 15. ●nd whither did our Saviour fly/ when the ●ime came that he was to show himself to Israel? Luk. 1.80. If any of these men can prove the Lord requireth no work at their hands to be 〈…〉 e for his glory and the salvation of thousands of ignorant souls in their own Nation/ let thē●tay in foreign countries. But I trust God's people have learned/ not to say the time is not yet come that Babel should be destroyed/ and the Lords house builded/ but that the time is come to build the Lords house/ and not to dwell in seiled houses/ Hag 1. or any way to seek our outward promotion; which if it be granted/ that the time is come/ not only to come out of Babel but to destroy her/ all these objections are nothing/ except they prove that when God called any of his people to his work/ they left it for fear of trouble. This doctrine was not approved of God when the time came that his adversaries were to be rooted out/ and that his people had gotten some victory. The Rubenites, and the Gadites could have been content to have remained to their most peace & commodity. Num. 32. But Moses said unto them, Shall your brethren go to war and ye tarry here? wherefore now discourage ye the hearts of the children of Israel etc. sharply reproving them as an increase of sinful men risen up in their father's steads still to augment the fierce wrath of the Lord/ and Moses would not be satisfied until they had promimised that they would go with their brethren to the Lords work/ and would not return to their houses/ till they had accomplished the same. And the Angel of the Lord doth say. Curse ye Meroz, curse the inhabitants thereof, because they came not to help the lord, to help the Lord against the Mighty. judg. 5.23. Also because the men of jabesh Gilead/ came not up to the Lord/ to help their brethren against the wicked men of Gibeah, all the men were destroyed and all the women that had lain by men judge 21. No excuse whatsoever could serve: Did God thus respect his work and people then/ as all must put to their helping hand/ and none must withdraw their shoulder lest others were discouraged/ & is there no regard to be had thereof now? but any occasion/ as fear of a little imprisonment/ or the like may excuse any/ both from the Lords work/ & the help of their brethren that for want of their society and comfort/ are exceedingly weakened/ if no overcome. If answer be made/ they perform their duty in both/ that they do the Lords work the Pastor feeding his flock/ and the people walking one towards another. I demand/ doth the Lord require no more work of them? doth he not require that they should help to cast down Babel? If reply be made they do it by their books. I answer/ that may be done/ and their lights shine by their mouths and conversations also among the wicked/ which is the greatest means of converting them and destroying Antichristes kingdom/ They overcame (not by flying away) by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev. 13.11. God's people are the lights of the world/ a City set on a hill/ a Candle set on the candlestick/ giving light to all that come in. Mat. 5. and therefore must shine by their persons/ more then by their ●ookes. And great help and encouragement would be to God's people in affliction of imprisonment and the like/ to have their brethren's presence/ to administer to their souls or bodies/ and for which cause/ Christ will say/ I was in prison/ and ye visited me/ in distress and ye comforted me/ and unto those that do not so/ according to their ability/ Go ye cursed. Mat. 25. If men had greater love to Gods commands/ or the salvation of thousand of ignorant souls in our Nation/ that for want of instruction perish/ then to a little temporal affliction they would neither publish nor practise as they do in this thing. Thus have I in short showed you my poor ability in these things. And for all other things we hold/ as the lawfulness of magistracy God's blessed ordinance. Of Christ our Saviour taking his flesh of the virgin Mary/ by the wonderful work of the holy Ghost etc. You may see them in our confession in print published 4. years ago.  I. 
Many that he called Annabaptists hold the contrary/ and many other strange things.  C. 
We cannot but lament for it/ so did many in Christ Churches in the primitive times hold strange opinions/ as some of the Corinth● denied the resurrection/ and in many of the 〈◊〉 churches were grievous things/ which the L. by his servants warned them of/ upon pain of his displeasure/ & removing of his presence from them/ nevertheless others professing the same general cause of Christ/ were commended.  A. 
Well/ you will yet be called Annabaptists because you deny baptism to infants.  C. 
So were Christians before us called Sects. And so they may john Baptist. jesus Christ/ himself/ and his Apostles Annabaptists/ for we profess and practise no otherwise herein/ 〈◊〉 they/ namely/ the baptizing of such as confess with the mouth the belief of the heart. And if they be Anabaptists that deny baptism/ where God hath appointed it/ they/ and not we are Annabaptists. But the Lord give them repentance/ that their sins may be put away/ and never laid to their charge/ even for his Christ's sake/ Amen.  
Thus have we in this Dialogue according to our poor ability answered such objections/ as hitherto in our poor and unworthy testimony have been objected against any of us concerning persecution for religion: as also with good consciences pointed at the principal things of Mr Robinson's late book till further time.  
FINIS.