A CURRYCOMB FOR A COXCOMB.  
OR PURGATORIES KNELL.  
In answer of a lewd Libel lately foricated by JABAL RACHIL against Sir EDW. HOBIES' COUNTERSNARLE: Entitled Purgatories triumph over Hell.  
Digested in form of a Dialogue by NICK-groome of the HOBIE-Stable REGINO BURGI.  CIC. 
Canes aluntur in Capitolio.  ESAY 19 v. 5. 
Et Flwius exsiccabitur.  
LONDON, Printed by William Stansby for Nathaniel Butter, and are to be sold at his shop near S. Augustine's gate at the sign of the Pied Bull. 1615.   
2. TIM. 3. 
6. Of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive simple women laden with sins, and led with divers lusts.  
7. Which women are ever learning, and are never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.  
8. And as jannes' and jambres withstood Moses, so do the see also resist the truth, men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.  
9 But they shall prevail no longer, for their madness shall be evident to all men, as theirs also was.  ESAY 44. v. 27. 
Be dry, and I will dry up the Floods.  
TO THE READER.  
NOt gentle ungentle, nor ungentle gentle, but gentle gentle Reader, I desire no better Patron for this my rustic Dialogue, than thy favourable smile. Many things passed in this conference which escaped my memory before I could come to commit them to the custody of my pen. That which I retained, is here published for thy solace, and the disgrace of all pamphleting Libelers, who strut like brave Gallants till their bombasted stuff be discovered, and then have nothing to show but poor meager carcases, which it would pity a tender eye to behold. With what fidelity I have dealt in producing the adversaries assertions, I must refer myself to the indifferent survey of his book, by which it will appear that I have not set him on the rack, to compel him to utter that which was against his mind, but took every clause as it did drop of it own accord from the voluntary evidence of his pen. The method cannot be so exact as I could have wished. He that tracts a Fugitive, must take the bypath as well as the roadway. Herein could I not be my own Carver, being over-swayed with the current of his Stream. For the conveyance of the Dialogue, some few formal passages happily are transposed, but without alteration either of words or sense, If he complain of too much tartness, let him blame his own thundering, which turned my sweet Wine into sour Vinegar. Rather than he should be troubled with the scratches, I have thought good to bestow upon him this small cast of my Office, for which if he cunne me small thanks, I shall yet comfort myself with the loyalty of my serviceable intention. And thus I refer my bold enterprise to thy best censure, and these homely lines to thy most favourable construction,  
Nick. Groom.   

CERTAIN ENCOMIASTIQVE Epigrams prefixed as a Prologue to the Author's Dialogue.  

NIck-Groome, thy quill hath flown so passing well,  
That none denies thy Currycomb the Bell.  
If Bellarmine do send his Mare to thee,  
Her neck, if not her heart, will broken be.  
The headstrong jade that scorns the reins and bit,  
Will by thy Art be soon for Saddle fit.  
Ere while we saw this jabal, skittish, wild,  
Wincing aloft; thy spur had made him mild.  
Oh how he fumes and foams in foul despite,  
To see his pride so curbed by such a wight.  
'tis fit the Fool who cannot rule his babble,  
Should find some fetters in the Hoby-stable.  
HOBY MORTON.   

NIck, thou sayest ill that Miracles are done,  
Thy lines do prove that they are scarce begun:  
That Stable-grooms should jesuits confront,  
As yet was never heard in Hellespont:  
Had not some higher Genius thy thoughts inspired  
Thy Muse, thy cause, thy credit had been bemired.  
Nor Hall nor Sichem do such wonders yield,  
Their wonders vanish, thine hath won the field.  
Edmund Langston.   

BY my consent that noble Sydney's verse,  
When thou art dead shall cleave unto thy hearse.  
If that the man such praise must have,  
Then what must he that keeps the knave?   

Idem ad Eundem.  
IF jabal meet thee, Nick, thou must to Hell,  
there's now no middle place for souls to dwell:  
'tis not the Tiger on thy sleeve shall bail thee,  
Thy comfort is, thy pen will never fail thee.  
William Epseley.   

SOme free their friends by purse from Purgatory pains,  
Some by their orisons, some by Oblations:  
Nick-Groome hath fully cleared that coast without the grains,  
Which hallowed been, or other duplications  
Of ave Maries, or that mumming foppery,  
Which makes the wiser world deride all popery.  
To sack those walls it cost him not a groat,  
His pen hath set Don Charon's bark afloat.  
Anthony Tonstall.   

WHat is this jabal, an outlandish man?  
A Monk, a Punk, or Pembliconian?  
Simon Fitz-Magus calls him jason Raguel,  
But he's more kin to Nabal or Pantagruel.  
Nabal and jabal differ but a letter,  
Nabal a fool, this jabal little better.  
jabal is Flood in English, Rachil Detraction,  
That notifies his name, this displays his faction.  
Idem.   

IS jabal Doctor by degree in Schools?  
If he commenced, 'twas in the ship of fools.  
Though never graced with Lambskins seniority,  
He bleats in corners, by the Pope's authority.  
Peregrine Hoby. Aetonensis.   

THe middle Ghosts twixt Limbo and the Lake,  
Which neither Sun nor Moon of long time saw,  
Of this thy Knell do joyful notice take  
They shout to see their jailor proved a Daw.  
jabal their jailor being put to flight,  
They all break lose from shadows of the night.  
GILES DABITOT.   

WHen Rome shall hear of Purgatories Knell,  
Nick will be cursed with candle, book, and bell,  
His Currycomb will be adjudged to fire.  
O happy Nick to be a Martyr's Sire!  
They hardly shall, whether they bless or curse,  
Make Nick much better, or his lines much worse.  
He took a lucky time his book to vent,  
'tis thought the Pope hath all his curses spent.  
Robert Flint, twice Mayor of Queenborough.   

HOw many tongues speaks jabal? five at least.  
His lying tongue doth far surpass the rest.  
He lies in English, Latin, French and Dutch,  
Whether he speak or write he lies; that's much.  
JARCAS' PARSONS.   

HE that Triumphs before the field be won,  
May be led captive ere the fight be done.  
Sawest thou how proudly jabals' charet vaunted?  
My fellow Nick hath now his courage daunted.  
Nick ties him to the rack (thus fortunes altar)  
Nick clips his mane, Nick leads him in a halter.  
Tho. Cook.   

MY trusty Nick, think not that I collogue,  
I do protest I like thy Dialogue.  
Thy Matter, Method, and thy pleasing strain,  
Have let the Bravo blood in th' antic vain.  
Thy Currycomb hath just as many notches,  
As jabals pybald Coxcomb jags and scotches.  
Thou shalt have passage to the March-beer barrel,  
For foiling jabal in thy Master's quarrel.  
Sim. the Butler.   

SOme say that jabal hath a Swinish look,  
And others say he wrote a dogged book.  
I rather think it was a Hog that wrought it,  
And wots you why? 'twas Chance our dog that brought it.  
Harry the Portar.   

Idem de eodem.  
WHen Chance came in, he seemed to bring a prize,  
Nick looked, and found a farthel full of Lies.  
And when he took it, Chance did wag his tail,  
Praesaging that the Groom should jabal quail.  
When Dogs bring popish Libels 'tween their gills,  
'tis time for Grooms to exercise their quills.    

THE CONTENTS of the several Chapters of this Book.  

CHAP. 1. Pag. 1. THe Libelers malice, fraud, and folly detected.  
CHAP. 2. Pag. 71. The Maccabees unthronized.  
CHAP. 3. Pag. 103. Purgatories deduction Logically and Theologically disproved.  
CHAP. 4. Pag. 150. The Scriptures authority and sufficiency warranted against Prayer for the dead, and other Romish traditions.  
CHAP. 5. Pag. 206. Lipsian Miracles morterized.  
CHAP. 6. Pag. 246. Great Gregory's proud Delegate dismounted, and popish pretended devotion uncased.    

Dialogue  
Between the 

Mayor. of Queenboroughe.  
Minister. of Queenboroughe.  
NICK Groom of Queenboroughe.  
jabal Rachil Libeler.     

A CURRYCOMB for a Coxcomb.  

CHAP. I. The Libelers malice, pride, fraud, and folly detected.  Ma. 
WHat, honest Nick! Welcome into Sheppy. How fares the noble Knight, and all the true Trojans at home?  Nick. 
I thank God Sir, all well. My Master remembers his love to your Worship, to you Master Vicar, and to all his friends in these parts.  Min. 
We are much bound to him for his kind remembrance; but I wonder what wind drives you hither? we may strew green rushes for you; I think you were never here since Master Maior took his oath.  Nick. 
Sir, you are in the right, but such troublesome guests come soon enough, like foul weather, before they be sent for.  Ma. 
Nay say not so Nick, the worst dog in your master's house cannot come unwelcome to Queenborough.  Nick. 
That's more of your kindness then our merit; but I pray you what's the reason the bowling green is so empty upon so fair a day?  Min. 
Why man, there is a great Fair at Sittingburne, thither they are all gone, tag, rag, and longtail.  Nick. 
Then I fear I am come at an ill time.  Ma. 
Why so?  Nick. 
My master hath sent me for the pied nag, he would have him run in james park, lest he spoil himself this dry season: beside, I have appointed the Smith to be here in the afternoon. Now if the Castlekeeper be gone to buy Hobby-horses too, I am in a fair case.  Min. 
To put you out of doubt, upon my knowledge he is rid out, more than an hour and a half since.  Nick. 
Then it is likely to be dark night before he find the way home.  Ma. 
Assure yourself of that; it is a forfeit for a Sheppy-man to come from a Fair till Sun set.  Nick. 
See the ill luck; and the worst is, I know not how to spend the time all this livelong day.  Ma 
As if I have not a good dish of Oysters, and a cold pie at home to hold you tack.  Nick. 
Many thanks good Master Mayor: but in very deed I broke my fast so well with our old Gardener at Vpberry before I came out, that I shall have little maw to any meat till night.  Min. 
Then what will you do?  Nick. 
On my little honesty I know not, unless some good body would lend me a Playbook to make my worship laugh.  Ma. 
Faith Nick I do not remember any such in my custody, but our Searcher lent me a merry book which came to his hands the last week.  Min. 
Sir, you mean that squibbling pamphlet against Sir Edward Hoby, which I borrowed of you yesterday morning.  Ma. 
The very same: I would you would take the pains to fetch it.  Min. 
That labour shall be saved, we never parted companies since we met.  Nick. 
Now if you be kind gentlemen, let us sit down yonder, upon 
a Secretum & silentium magis disputationibus convenit, ne sermo interp●ll●tur a tanta ultro citroque cunt●um hominum & frequent●● & sirepitu.  Pennyless Bench, and survey it.  Ma. 
Agreed; for I think we shall have no body in haste come to trouble us.  Nick. 
What may the title of the book be? and who is the Author?  Min. 
He may be Nicholas nemo, for aught I know, he discovers himself only by the mark of 
b Conscia splend●nt●in formidat noctua .  I. R.  Nick. 
I dare lay a good wager it is that Ishmael Rabshacheh, whom my Master so hampered in his Countersnarle: my mind gives me it is the same Gurgullio, whose late arrival makes him so much merriment.  Min. 
Not unlike: he hath won the spurs for an arch-rayler. The most raving, and braving Paf-quil that ever I read. Had he gotten any prize by his last work, you should have now seen him out of his masker's suit: he stands close behind his picture: if it pass currant, he will then peep out, otherwise he will hide his head in a Bench-hole.  Ma. 
But is this the fashion of professed 
c Illi saciem velant qui se pudenda dicere cognoscunt, fatentur se non dicenda dicere. Laur. Val. de volupt. lib. 3.  Divines, to broach Positions which they dare not justify with the subscription of their names, and being nameless themselves, to parbreak persons of note.  Nick. 
Do you wonder at that? As if old purse-takers will present themselves in their own likeness without vizards, and scarves.  Ma. 
Indeed that were the next way to the Gallows; but surely this kind of cunning joined with so great scurrility (which in my little view I discovered) would make me shrewdly suspect their 
d Non sic Phidias qui clypeo Mineruae imaginem suam insculpsit.  sincerity, who are so intemperate in their own affections, and regardless of better men's credits.  Min. 
This is the Catholic charity, and soule-gaining patience practised now adays; but he is not without his shifts. That he concealeth his name, it is his 
e Page 26.  humility, as regardless of worldly respects. That he is so tart, it proceedeth from his zeal of the cause, not any hatred of the person.  Ma. 
In my opinion he needs not fear any great applause▪ for the extraordinary skill of his work. 'tis well if he scape in this learned age without reproof· But to make zeal the Patron for his 
f A trim Minion, one of a merry scoffing wit, Friar-like. Steph. Winton: against G. joy.. page 2.  personal trumps, is intolerable hypocrisy.  Min. 
Can he show any such sparks of personal disdain, flying from Saint Augustine's pen, there were yet some little hope, that he hath at least a dram of that Primitive Spirit: but you shall hear how he contradicts himself. 
g Preface Dedicatory.  Saint Augustine (saith he) did endeavour to curb the motions of anger, seeking to overcome his Adversaries, not by return of injurious reproaches, to disgrace their persons, but by clear Demonstrations of the victorious truth.  Ma. 
Then is he as like Saint Augustine, as an Owl to an ivy bush.  Nick. 
And could he single out no body but my Master to make the Anvil of his malice? I doubt he hath taken a wrong Sow by the ear; if his coat be not swinged ' well and thriftily, let me be held for a soused Gurnet.  Min. 
Indeed it had been the wiser way, first to have beleguered the Castle which he formerly 
h Mast. T. H.  lost; and had not either vain hope of a second voluntary lapse, or necessary fear of some foul discovery, diverted his force, he would rather have followed the chase of his old prey. Well, he is not unlike to have some hornets about his ears: But for Sir Edward, he hath passed his word to answer him with contempt.  Ma. 
Silence verily is fittest for a Gentleman of his place, unless his adversary were of more worth than this Startup.  Nick. 
I wonder in my heart what Ishmael meant to come upon him with a fresh reply, having public notice of his resolution.  Ma. 
This was it that animated him; the Knights 
i Counters. pag. 68  Dormitabo secured his pen free passage without control.  Nick. 
Nay, than I would my girdle might break; seeing he will wake a sleeping Lion, as long as I can hold a Currycomb in my hand, I will ferret his sides till he cry 
k Pag. 199.  Flebo.  Min. 
I perceive thou art true bred; such a Whelp is fittest for this game: But how camest thou by thy Latin?  Nick. 
Faith, I waited on a young Gentleman, at Oxford, some three, or four years, where I got a few broken ends together, enough to patch Rabsh. his Coxcomb with a Sternigogulus.  Ma. 
On my soul thou art a merry grig. I would not for the price of a good Breakfast have wanted thy company in the review of this discourse.  Nick. 
Perhaps you will say so, by that time we have done; It shall go hard if I find not Crotchets in this Beetle-head, to descant upon his plain song. But I long to hear the books name.  Min. 
It is called Purgatories 
l Do not Owls harbour in the Barn of his brain?  Triumph over Hell.  Nick. 
What! Ishmael the Conqueror? O victorious Rabshacheh. In what pomp art thou led to the Capitol?  Min. 
Would you know how? his Chariot is drawn with four grisly Anticques: Sophistry, Scurrility, Impudency, and Hypocrisy, and attended with Falsehood, Philosophy, Atheism, and Idolatry.  Ma. 
If he triumph after the old Roman manner, he must (for the gaining of applause) be very liberal in his gifts to the people.  Min. 
He passeth for that of all that ever I knew. Here he flings a Ram's horn, there a Tobacco pipe; here he bestows a 
m Mendacium ridiculum & morione dignum  Black-more Girl of his own taking; there he casts our Lady's Gloves. Asses are his ordinary favours; and as for Wine, Sugar, Honniè-sops, Green Goslings, Cockatrices, Woodcocks, Cocks eggs, and Salads, you would admire his lubberalitie.  Ma. 
Stop there good M. Vicar, nicks teeth will water, if you talk of any more such junkets.  Nick. 
No not if he gave Quails instead of Woodcocks; these dainterils have lain so long upon his hands, that I fear me they are scarce sweet.  Ma. 
His last Treatise, (if I be well advised) wherein he began to fling at the Knight, was Christened, The overthrow of the Protestants pulpit Babel's.  Nick. 
The Overthrow? O Hercules! They must be Babbles indeed if he be able to move them. What a brave Lad is this, that dreams of nothing but Overthrows, and Triumphs? No doubt he rescued many Shavelings in this skirmish. 'twas pity he was not in England when my Lord De la Ware undertook his voyage: Then should his Lordship have had no need to have stood to the courtesy of the two Universities. Rabshacheh alone would have soon brought those poor Savages, under the belt of his Discipline. But had he not great luck (trow you) to scape Cerberus his fangs, coming so near the confines of Hell?  Ma. 
He complaineth that he met with a 
n Preface.  Cerberus, meaning the Knights Countersnarle, Which entertained him with an unfriendly welcome, and saluted his pinnace with a peal of unlovely terms.  Min. 
And well worthy, for he gave the onset without a challenge, neither came he as a Merchant (according to his colourable pretence) with an 
o Ibid.  Olive branch, towards the haven of his favour; but as a man of War with a flag of defiance, to batter the invincible Fort of the Knight's reputation.  Ma. 
Nay by your leave, Sr. Edward cast out his Glove to any 
p Letter to Mast. T. H. pag. 6.  Romified Rennegado.  Nick. 
What was that to I. R.? what needed he have fought as the Pope's 
q Frustra fatigando se nihil praeter odium quaerere, extremae est deme●tiae. Sallust.  Voluntary, under those colours? Had he such interest in the Title, that he could not forbear the Claim?  Min. 
As for that, it had been pardonable, if in the confidence of his cause, he had endeavoured to disable the Knight's refutation of Purgatory, by the Dint of argument: but to dart his Porcupine quills to blemish his credit, to snuff at a Tobacco pipe, to jest with his sword, nay to make him a 
r Pag. 49. 92. 127.  peddler to vent other men's patches, as it argueth rather an aching tooth, than a religious mind, so is it able to drive Sobriety herself into an 
s Preface.  arring passion.  Ma. 
Had the Cumaean Virgin, I mean Discretion, been his guide in that journey; had the respect of the Knight's honour, or desire of welfare of his soul, been superintendant in his thoughts, he would have found another way to the wood. 'Tis strange Rhetoric to alienate his affections, whose judgements we labour to inform.  Nick. 
Will you have the right? I have gotten the length of his foot. Prurit-anus Wilson sees that Ishmael hath a Windmill in his head, therefore he buzzeth in his ears to set the clapper a jog, that so he may get a good Grist.  Ma. 
Had there not been some such pecuniary, or sinister aim, I verily think Rabshacheh his pen had been at a full period. He would have accepted the Knights reasonable satisfaction, and endured a little shower, especially raised by the blustering winds of his own distemper: he would not have provoked the grim Porter the second time, whom he found so fell at the first. Somewhat it is that makes him so bray in the ears of his supposed Cerberus, who was well contented to have taken a nap, and to let him pass without regard.  Min. 
Yet would he make the world believe he is so desirous of peace, that he hath now out of the abundance of his charity brought him a honey sop to stop his mouth. 
t Mell in ore, verba lactu, fell in cord, fraus in factis.   Ma. 
Trust me truly, he comes over him with kindness; this honey was not fetched from the Bees hive, but from the Asps hole, more like to stir choler then to procure rest.  Nick. 
This trick he learned in his passage of Charon the ferry-man; to look towards peace with his face, and row towards discord with his pen. He sets out the 
u Preface.  Olive branch for a sign, but his vessels are full of gall and wormwood within.  Min. 
If we may take his own word in his own work, it is the gentle sound of a solid answer, 
* Preface.  It is a purgatory salad to purge his profane humours, made of five medicinable herbs, wherein he hath powered the oil of charitable exhortations, mingled with the vinegar of sharp reprehension, yet so sparingly that it cannot be displeasing to his taste.  Nick. 
If he had presented him with the juice of Rue, and skymd honey, it had been more proper for the dimness of his sight. It seems he hath not been brought up under an Apothecary, but rather in a Cook's shop, he is so cunning in dishing out this saucy Allegory.  Min. 
What will ye say then to this? I have done my best to 
x This Allegory was beaten in the mortar of malice, with the pestle of his pestilent wit. Ouerth. p. 52.  quench the fire which flashed from the bramble bush of your distempered thoughts, not with cold water of a dull denial, nor with the oil of sinners, which might increase the flame, by soothing you in your error, but with wine and sugar. I hope you will not tax this to be broken-winded.  Nick. 
I promise you an excellent close. Had my master such a Skull in his kitchen, that would quench the fire with wine and sugar, the Vintners and Grocers would soon share his lands: his 
y Pag. 27.  patrimony would then be in a dangerous consumption indeed.  Min. 
Nick, you are somewhat too quick, his honest meaning is to be accepted: yet if I have any judgement, he is more elegant in one leaf of this book▪ then in all the other he wrote before.  Ma. 
Marry he may thank Sir Edward for that, whose phrases are so interlaced throughout the whole discourse, that Rabshacheh his style may seem to have put on her holiday coat.  Nick. 
This one thing I heard a Gentleman of good quality observe, that he hath an extraordinary gift in the retorting of conceits: And withal protested that he thought Ishmael was begotten on the side of a hill, he so returns word for word like an Echo.  Min. 
The truth is, the poor man hath a very weak stomach, he casts up whole periods as they went down, without digestion or alteration.  Ma. 
If I were his Physician, I would prescribe him a cup of wine and sugar next his heart, for what with his watching, weeping and 
z Pag. 113.  whipping, he hath a very bad stomach, and a worse brain.  Nick. 
He ill deserves it, who measures other men's liquor, by the shallow pan of his own wheeling sconce. If he break his fast with nymble-brained Wilson somewhat more liberally, he straight fumbles in the mouth, and tumbles out a double 
a Preface.  fool in every answer according to his simple folly.  Min. 
He was not then mistaken that did hierogliphic him by the name of Rabshacheh, which upon long search he hath found to signify 
b Pag. 34.  Multum Ebrius: as much to say, as Cousin German to Flood the Ignatian, who hath in his time made more razling Indentures, than the best Scrivener in Douai or St. Omers.  Nick. 
Yet as flustred as he was, when his wench told him that he kissed like a Clowter, he could text her with Labia Sacerdotis custodiunt sapientiam. And when she pleaded that it went against her heart, he could protest by the faith of a Catholic, not to come within a 
c Just the length of a Tobacco Pipe.  foot of her conscience.  Min. 
It seems indeed he speaks not by guess like a Novice, but as one beaten to the trade by experimental proof, when he saith, I know that the custom of men that are 
d Pag. 56.  tippled is, when they stagger themselves, to think that Churches, and the very heavens ree●e about them. Mark how feelingly he speaks even of the thought.  Ma. 
Let him be what he will, this is no fit Court to draw his Indictment: he will traverse it with an Appeal; Let us rather hear how he bestirs himself for Purgatory.  Min. 
Nay by your leave Sir, his Apology touching the exceptions in the Countersnarle must have the precedence. This hath he cunningly in his first chapter prefixed to a work; by good probability, long studied, against the Knights first letter, some six years since directed to Mr. T.H.  Ma. 
Be it as it list: seeing we are come as Auditors to sit upon his account, let us first see his charge, and then his discharge.  Min. 
Indeed equity herself cannot prescribe a more indifferent course then this. There is great reason your fiat should stand in these praecincts.  Nick. 
No doubt he hath placed a Lion in the forefront to make the better way, for the Marshalling of his weaker and more heartless troops.  Ma. 
If he have the least dram of Rhetorical Chivalry, he will be sure to put the best 
e Mallem exercitum Ceruorum duce Leone, quam Leonum duce Ceruo.  leg foremost.  Min. 
You are both wide; in stead of a Lion, he hath committed the conduct of his forces to Reynald the fox, whom he presents on his paper stage with a Target, to shield him from the imputation of uttering any thing to the Knight's reproach.  Ma. 
It must be a nimble Fox that can shift off so many palpable wrongs; he had need have his joints thoroughly anointed with the oil of leazing.  Min. 
Doubt you not that; his points are well tagged with fraud. And first, as if he (good man) meant nothing but pure devotion, he deplores the hard hap of his infortunate treatise, in falling upon so undeserved misconstruction, wishing that the few lines which concerned the Knight, had been read by him when he was fasting.  Nick. 
He were a wise man would lose a good Breakfast, for better repast than I could ever discover in his Larder. It seems his book is somewhat a kin to an Apothecary's drug, which requires the attendance of an hourglass, and a Spanish seruicio. He that dares not but allow a certain number of Psalms in our Lady's Psalter to be read after supper, is angry if his own lines be perused when a man hath dined. If there be any such danger in taking his receipts upon a full stomach, he should have done well to prescribe both diet and time.  Ma. 
Undoubtedly he hath a reference to the wine and sugar, mentioned in his Preface, which liquor he saith the Knight loves well. This holy water runs from his pen in such abundance as if he had Bacchus his tun for a Standish: he dreams of no body but 
f Pag. 94.  Ennius, who in his merry vain wrote more wise sentences, than ever issued from Rabshacheh his most sober thoughts; herein he displayeth his folly, or rather his malice, in the highest degree. But the best is, he is like to purchase as much thanks of the judicious Reader, by this his injurious scandal, as Sophocles his ungracious Sons got by traducing their old Father for a 
g Quaes●●it num ill●d carmen desip●ntis? Cato Maior.  Dotard, and so unfit for the management of his estate. The Knight is able to show him more than a Tragedy to wipe away this blur: where Malice is the prompter, you must imagine Impudence will deliver a good evidence.  Min. 

h Math. 11.19.  Ecce potator vini, 
i Act. 2.13.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are no new inventions, nor grounded truths: as if a Gentleman cannot drink a cup of wine but he must instantly be as wise as staring 
k judic. 9.36.  Gaal. The Knight is of an affable, and pleasant disposition, yet he comes not always up to Hilary Term. Ulysses was no Ploughman, though once for a private end he feigned himself a Rustic, and put his hands to the share. Cato was upbraided for being all night in a 
l Stapleton. Prompt. Moral.  tavern, but how did he answer for himself? You should relate (quoth he) how many days before I spent at my book, and never budged out of my study.  Ma. 
Ishmael cannot hear with that ear: He should have showed more discretion in shaping his credulous Censures, according to the prescript of this direction; had he Itemd the lamp oil, as well as he summed the Spanish wine, his intruding curiosity would have passed with less blame. Nemo omnibus horis sapit. He that is lumpish at his meals, will prove but a slug in his more serious affairs.  Nick. 
I am sure the old Friar was of your mind in this; for handling those words 
m john 2.3.  Vinum non habent, He made his division thus. Here is first vinum, ibi optimus liquor. Secondly, non habent, ibi pessimus clamour.  Ma. 
Gra-mercy Nick, I perceive thou hast not left all thy Latin shreds at home. But I would gladly know what the Knight mistook in the perusal of his discourse that he should be thus charged with an inconsiderate survey.  Min. 
The Knight (if you be remembered) took it in ill part that he was taxed by the Cecropidan for want of learning, wit, valour, and conscience, as also with the surplusage of self-conceit.  Ma. 
And can he either blame the acceptance, or deny the cause, which is yet extant under his own hand?  Min. 
Yes, he forsooth doth not simply derogate from the Knight in any of these, but comparatively matching them together, gives the precedence, where he thinks he had most cause. I did 
n Pag. 2.  divide (saith he) the three degrees of comparison, betwixt your three most commendable qualities, Valour, Learning, Witte. I gave the positive to your valour; The comparative I did assign to your pen·s To your wit I did reserve the superlative degree: my conceit did without fraud, sincerely aim at your praise. If I did 
o Caecus non judicat de coloribus.  prefer your wit & Learning before your Valour, you have no just cause of offence.  Ma. 
Were there no more but this, it is more than common Civility can well warrant; had he not been ill tutored he might have learned that comparisons are odious. Might not the Knights commendable qualities say unto him, Quis te constituit judicem inter nos? The question de primatu was not allowable amongst the Disciples. In this case 
p 1. Regum. c. 3. v. 26.  dividatur, shows little care of the whole. The Poet might have informed him, Quae non prosunt singula, juncta iwant: he that hath but an ounce of each of those former properties, wants not a grain of a worthy man. So that by sundering them he labours to lessen their esteem, and by disparaging that which he seems to hold in highest regard, he plainly nullifies the repute of the rest.  Min. 
He that hath but half an eye, may easily perceive his comparative praises, to be indeed privative disgraces: as you may see by his 
q Peiora novissima primis.  Comment upon his own text. For whereas he styled the Knight's book an unlearned Letter, he now explaineth himself, that the want of 
r Pag. 9  Philosophical and Theological verities occasioned that censure. 
s Pag. 11.  The learning (saith he) with w●nt whereof I charged your Letter, is neither Pernassian, nor Poetical, nor Profane, but Sacred, Holy and Divine.  Ma. 
Is this the comparative degree wherewith he dubs his pen? Est aliquid prodire tenus: seeing Rabshacheh will afford no more, 'tis well we have this. But such a Boon is not like long to be enjoyed. I fear Rabshacheh reputes himself already of his seeming bounty; For as if his pen had been over lavish, he doth interpret the Pernassian learning formerly acknowledged, to signify 
t Pag. 12.  Fustian phrases, 
u Pag. 15.  nullity of judgement without any mediocrity of Logic, 
* Pag. 13.  a slippery vain of writing, 
x Pag. 36.  impertinent and ridiculous annotations, 
y Pag. 12.  language that must have a Parliament to naturalise it, 
z Pag. 16.  witless cavils, 
a Pag. 169.  babbling able to make learned men's heads ache, 
b Pag. 126.  speech not so wise as the braying of Balaams' Ass, 
c Pag. 2.  agaudy style, 
d Pag. 36.  a head blank without matter, defiling, nay 
e Pag. 4.  loading his margin withal manner of impertinent stuff, as 
f Pag. 35.  vulgar sentences, 
g Ibid.  trivial verses, 
h Ibid.  childish authors, 
i Pag. 127.  reeling, tottering, and 
k Pag. 35.  ridiculous phrases, serving only to waste ink and to blur paper.  Nick. 
I promise you he hath mended the matter well, these mild censures are able to raise 
l Pag. 2.  fus of choler. Is this the Pern●ssian Laurel with which he is content to crown my Master's temples? Is this the tune which the 
m Pag. 9  poetical sisters sing in Apollo's choir? then may the jingling of my Currycomb pass currant for reasonable good melody. I easily believe he went 
n Ibid.  young from Helicon, who can no better judge of those Crystal streams.  Ma. 
If a man should give Flood this attribute, that he is 
o Ibid.  tam Philosophiae, quam theologiae peritus, which (bearing a double construction) may be warranted, albeit he have been scarce seasoned with the Principles of either Science, and so a Dullard in both: how could he but hold himself ill handled, if afterward the same party should tell him that he showed more foolery than Philosophy, more Dunsery than Divinity? But the best is, (as I heard the Knight once say) he makes no more reckoning of his praise, in giving him that he had not, then of his dispraise, in taking from him that he had; as having neither more nor less, for either of both.  Min. 
Yet this comes short of Rabshacheh his equivocating strain. For did he sincerely aim at the Knight's praise in his grant of Pernassian learning, why doth he then gainsay it in those his contradictory imputations? or did his mental entendment seek the disparagement of the Knight's learning (as now the event hath made apparent) to what end then doth he protest the 
p Pag. 2.  sincerity of his good meaning? Why doth he labour to colour his former frump with a distinction of learning, yielding the lesser arm of that tree to the Knight, and keeping the greater (as purchased by his long 
q Pag. 9  s●●dy and delight) to himself? whereas in fine he dispossesseth him of all, even of the least leaf of the smallest branch.  Ma. 
Thus is the Fox now uncased, his 
r Preface.  Flag of due respect, and dutiful affection, proved to be but the Ensign of subtlety: but I would gladly see upon what ground he buildeth those his derogatory and disgraceful terms.  Min. 
Forsooth he hath gotten the wind of an opposition between the Knight's poetry▪ and his prose, and that in the first sentence of his Countersnarle, which he produceth as a 
s Pag. 10.  perspective unto the rest. Heresy (saith he) hath in all ages contrived artificial shadows, which he justifieth with this marginal verse. Artibus impietas ingeniosa caret? This Rabshacheh reading without an Interrogatory saith, that the marginal Muse 
t Ibid.  gainsaith the text, whereas the argument is drawn ab impossibili, vizt. that it cannot be that witty Impiety should be to seek of cunning conveyance, than which nothing can be more suitable to the purpose. But admit there were no dash visible to his squinting eyes, besides the full point, yet might his wisdom have taken it for spoken Ironically, in which acceptation it is no less than unicent to the Prose.  Ma. 
Tut, this  hath no other project but to set Ephraim against Manasses, and Manasses against Ephraim, to cast a bone between the Margin, and the 
u Pag. 11.  Text, and to set them both together by the ears with the truth: but the best is, the least dash of a pen will easily reconcile them.  Min. 
Nay this is not all, he challengeth the Prose also, as 
* Pag. 10.  notoriously false, in averring that the countenance of venerable Antiquity is the artificial colour wherewith Heresy doth paint herself, whereas (saith he) Heresy hath in all ages disclaimed the Award of Antiquity.  Nick. 
Then I am sure our Preacher delivered false doctrine the last Sunday, for he spoke much of Patrem habemus Abrahamum, and I remember he had such a word as Templum Domini, which was frequent (as he said) in the mouth of the Idolatrous and Hypocritical jews. He spoke somewhat also of the 
x Epipham.  Adamians, who vouched nothing but Antiquity, and of the Acephali who 
y Damas'. in Orat. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  pleaded the authority of Athanasius and Cyril for the passage of their heresies the particulars are crept out of my slippery brain.  Min. 
He might further have informed you of the Heretic Dioscorus, who in the open Council did vaunt of the Pedigree and descent of his doctrine, from all the ancient Fathers of the Church. 
z Concil. Chalced. Act. 1.  Ego testimonia habeo sanctorum patrum, Athanasijs, Gregorij etc. Ego defendo patrum dogmata. I have the witness (saith he) of the holy Fathers; I defend the Father's doctrine. Was not Carosus an Heretic? yet forsooth he did believe, 
a Con. il. Chalced. Act. 4.  secundum expositionem trecentorum decem et ●cto patrum; according to the exposition of the three hundred and eighteen Fathers. If the Plea of Antiquity were not a glistering varnish, Andreas Barbatius would not have gone so high to fetch the descent of his Romish Cardinals grounding their foundation upon those words of Hannah, 
b 1. Sam. 2.8.  Dominisunt Cardines terrae, et posuit super eos orbem.  Ma. 
He might have shown himself a more skilful Herald, and gone nearer the sound, & sense, had he drawn their original from these words of the Apostle 
c 1. Cor. c. 3. ver. 3. : Vos autem carnales estis; but these Arcadian; must be a day or two elder than the Moon, or else they will hold themselves no Gentlemen: their holy water must either flow from Elizaeus, or else it hath but a base current; and could they not fetch the authority of their Monastic life from the sample of Christ himself, they would repute it, as of 
d Pag. 84.  an upstart family.  Nick. 
I applaud their wit; this is not the worst fetch to gain esteem. Were I a rich man it should cost me an hundred 
e A●ro vaenit honos.  pound twice told, but I would have Saturn or Priamus to stand on the top of my line. I would not stick to alter two or three letters of my name, to make myself of kin to 
f A jove tertius Ajax.  Pantagruel. Me thinks 
g Horat. Ode 1.  Moecenae atavis edite regibus is a stately iambic, it runs so full in the mouth.  Ma. 
The best jest (the lively Emblem of his malicious spirit) is this that he playeth upon the 
h Pag. 36.  letters which fall in order, without any choice, as directs to the marginal notes. He had charged the Knight with an unlearned Letter: hereupon Sir Edward, discovering divers his Solaecismes and Incongruities, (more than were named) to abridge the length of his Letter did margin thus. Si ego indignus (which word he falsely cited) have contumelia, tu indignus qui faceres tamen. This falling under the letter, O, Rabshacheh▪ wittily tells him that, that had reason to cry 
i Pag. 36. , O, with which letter it was marked. In like manner he descants upon the letter, T, by which he understands Throne.  Nick. 
Alas poor man, I beshrew my heart if I do not pity the penury of his barren conceit. He was near driven, (God wots) when he was feign to ransack the Wardrobe of his wit, for such threadbare shifts.  Min. 
What think you of this? when the Knight tells him that he had a spite only at one page, which lies in the heart of his Letter, he in the quaintness of his nimble Conceit retorts it thus. 
k Pag. 30.  It lies in the heart. Was not here an Echo far fetched? When the Knight says, well flown Buzzard, he conceitedly answers 
l Pag. 2.  I did not mark how near a kin that soaring bird was to a Buzzard. For Miles gloriosus hath been long since hissed off the stage, he returns 
m Pag. 3.  you play Miles gloriosus: somewhat more Art he shows in putting Cerberus, for Gelons' dog; For a good man's Dog hath broken his leg over a less style, he altering the person saith, 
n Pag. 33.  I fear your good dog hath broken his leg. And as for the Noddy, the Coventree cap, and the Tobacco pipe, he bandies them up and down, as if the Tennis-court would afford him no other balls. Thus doth he play Tom Skull, reverberating according to his Rhetorical skill the same syllables without any variety of invention.  Ma. 
Sir, It was well observed. I now see Nicks report was grounded upon good warrant. Ishmael is a perfect Atomist, there cannot a Mote pass his fingers, he notes the very 
o Pag. 7.  number of the lines. Sir Edward cities a part of two verses out of a known Poet, only with alteration of one word, vizt,— stulta est clementia— perituro parcere funi. Whereupon Rabshacheh tells his reader, that the Knight makes a verse that 
p Page 4.  exceedeth no less in fury then in feet.  Nick. 
He hath not only a quarrel to my Master's Poetry, but for want of better stuff he scans his 
q Pag. 27.  woods also upon his fingers, and finds them too short by many feet. Yet I dare undertake there are Oaks enough left standing to bear a millon of as stout Scarecrows as Rabshacheh.  Min. 
That which galleth him is, that the Knight now 
r Pag. 84.  possesseth the lands, which were formerly in the 
s Terram inimicorum possedebitis.  tenure of Romish Catholics.  Nick. 
Now you speak of that, you put me in mind of a merry answer which I heard my Master make touching that point. The Woods (quoth he) standing upon holy ground, he hath little reason to find fault if I gave them prim●m Tonsuram; withal he concluded, that he was not a little glad he had power so to order them; and the rather, for that such Daws & Puttocks might be disappointed for building their nests there.  Ma. 
The ●elling of those Woods▪ (as I have heard) will be the rai●ing of a more charitable work: But of what timber are those fellows made, who with their goggle eyes pry into every man's private affairs? Is this the next way to further Purgatories Triumph? but amongst other things, I mu●e how T. H. escapes his fingers, seeing his revolt first bred this quarrel; 'tis a wonder he doth so quietly part with his prey, and tread so tenderly in that path, with so kind a respect.  Nick. 
Assure yourself there is a pad in the straw. It is either for fear of some foul discovery, or for hope of his recovery: he finds it his best course, to soothe him with the acknowledgement of a 
t Pag. 90.  learned and pithy Treatise, and to free him from the vices of vulgar life.  Min. 
We will not dive so deep in his thoughts. I warrant the Knight laughs his heart sore at the 
u Pag. 37. 179.  blackmoor wench, which Ishmaels' invention hath lately landed on our English coast.  Nick. 
Laugh! I protest there comes not a friend to visit him, but he tells him of the Negro, & how friendly Rabshakeh hath promised to bring him to the 
* Pag. 38.  house where she is to be 
x Petrus de Palude in Ser. de Innocent.  found: only he fears she is some cast wench; and if the Friar her Ghostly Father, by whom she was converted, have blown upon her, he hath passed his word to turn her over to Nick Groom. And shall not I (think you) be well promoted with the japonians reversion? But the best is he conjures them all not to acquaint the Ladies by any means, lest they suspect his neglect of their attractive beauties, whose smiles he holdeth in high esteem.  Ma. 
If the Knight should make use of Rabshacheh his courtesy in this, he shall have good cause to confess that there is a Purgatory indeed. When he shall meet with Pluto's Niece upon Earth, he will give the more credit to those singing flames, and ghastly Ghosts in the after World.  Min. 
I have heard good Philosophers affirm, that dreams most commonly arise, either Ex praevia cogitation, so says Isidor, 
y Petrus de palude in ser. de innocent.  Saepe quae in die cogitamus, in nocte cognoscimus; or Ex cerebri perturbatione, and then, Mira & inaudita somniamus, secundum vaporem cellulam phantasticam inficientem; or else ex sanguinis infectione, and then somniant se ambulare per locà immunda. Now perhaps I. R. having an ill brain, and worse blood, had been reading of Ixion, and his Cloud: or of Helides, or else the Poet Nicaeus, who had both fair daughters of Negroes·s or of Alexander & his Egyptian Cleopatra, and so having a spleen at the Knight, doth with a strong imagination fasten the supposed crimes upon him, as if he had been peccant in that kind.  Nick. 
Peccant in that kind; I heard him say one day in the Stable, he would give 20. pound Rabshacheh had said troth, wishing that all rich widows near London might read his book: for than they would hold him fierce, and crave no other testimony for the approbation of his courage and virility.  Ma. 
The like fable the Licaonite coineth to disgrace one I. D. whom he describeth to be one of the Knight's fellow 
z Pag. 17.  tobaccaean Wrighters; who (saith the Cecropidan) with morning and evening devotions, did prostrate himself on the ground to the Picture of his Mistress, with this prayer; Illumina tenebras meas: Lighten my darkness sweet Lady.  Nick. 
O notable figment! this is invented to cry quittance for our Lady's borrowed face, mentioned in the Letter to the Collapsed Ladies.  Min. 
As I am a true man, I cannot imagine that so impious an affection can harbour in any Protestant breast: but I remember I met not long since with a pretty Epigram, not altogether dissonant from this purpose, made upon the credible relation of a Gentleman who had traveled foreign parts: which as near as I can hit it, runs thus.  
Euthycrates, Veneris, puerique Cupidinis unà  
Clarus Apellaea finxerat ora manu:  
Vidit ut haec Monachus, flectens, ecce Alma Maria,  
Ecce puer casta virgine natus, ait!  
Eccipit hunc risu Pictor, non falleris, inquit  
Ista, Maria tua est; Christus, et iste, tuus.  Nick. 
I promise you this is more than an inch beyond the reach of my Latin: I would it were Englished.  Min. 
On the sudden I cannot render it better than thus.  
Euthycrates by matchless Art had drawn this toy,  
loves fairest Queen dandling her lovely boy:  
This did a Shaveling spy, and doucking low he said,  
Hail Princely Babe, hail Mary spotless Maid:  
The Painter smiles, and says, you need not change your Creed,  
This is thy Mary, this thy Christ indeed.  Nick. 
If my doublet had no better buttons than 
a Pag. 137.  john Clements of Brussels had, I should crack them all with laughing at this conceit. I trow Ishmaels' darkness will be sufficiently enlightened with this more passable probability. If he have any spark of shame he will not hereafter seek such glow-worms, which show themselves in the blackness of ugly untruth, when they are once brought to the light of Trial.  Ma. 
Surely his brain is very like the soil of Africa, which (as Cosmographers say) yields every Moon, a new supply of strange Monsters, and deformed creatures, not to be paralleled by any former precedents. But all this while we have overslipped his positive degree. What says he to the Knight's valour?  Min. 
In my opinion he might well have given over that chase, as having received a modest, short sufficient, and discreet 
b Counters. page, 19  answer. Yet saith he, 
c Pag. 4.  your letter gave me just cause to suspect your valour. For you confess that the horror of the gunpowder plot doth lively represent before you, even in your dreams, and imprint in your most serious thoughts, that furious blast, which yourself, your poor self should have sensibly felt. Had you trembled at the bloody massacres of many worthy Peers, such a fit might have beseemed a Knight: Now the only cause of your fears and tears was the immoderate feeling of your own private danger; And what if your eyes had been put out with that powder, should the Commonwealth have lost any whit of her sight.  Nick. 
It were better the Crows should pick out the eyes of ten thousand such Ishmaelites, who are not only as so many motes, but huge 
d Eijce trabem. Luc. 6, 42,  beams blemishing the sight of the body politic. Though he think there is not such a 
e Pag. 66.  doting justice of peace again in a country, holding him no wiser than 
f Pag. 24.  Mr. T. D. not so politic as the 
g Non equidem invideo.  Statist deceased, yet it is well known his approved sufficiencies need no such trumpet to commend him in the gates.  Ma. 
You have no reason to take it in ill part, he serves all justices of peace alike, glancing at them as 
h Pag. 197. Meaning Intergatories to seditious jesuits.  good for nothing but to waste paper and ink in frivolous questions.  Min. 
Nick, passion hath almost drawn us aside from the first Cavil pretended against the Knight's courage, which was the immoderate sense of his own private danger.  Ma. 
You say well; he builds upon that Adage, Degeneres animos timor arguit, which might be easily salved with that authentic Maxim, Charitas incipit à seipso. It is an old saying and a true, Qui sibi nequam, cui bonus? He that is regardless of his own soul, life, and state, is no fit guardian for a Commonweal. But see how purblind this 
i Pag. 4.  eye-maker is; when he hath a purpose to play the counterfeit. He that was so quicksighted to spy a marginal note ninety two pages off to serve his own turn, will not now see that which is directly opposite, being directed thereunto with the letter K, wherewith he hath not been unacquainted 
k Pag. 9  since he could number thrice five years of his life; for had he but cast his eye (O partial eye) aside, he might have seen 
l Lett. to T. H. pag. 3.  Lucretius bedewing his cheeks with this lament, una dies dabit exitio, multosque per annos Sustentata ruet moles et machina regni. So that if the question be how it could stand with the Knight's valour to imprint the horror of that furious blast in his most serious thoughts, he brings in Lucretius epitomizng that, which himself thorough the amazement of a so monstrous project was 
m 〈◊〉 le●es 〈…〉, ma●s s●upent.  unable to particularise to the full: vizt. that the glorious fabric of this ancient and famous Kingdom should have lain flat on the ground.  Min. 
Hinc illae lachrimae. This wind no doubt raised the storm of the Knight's passion, whereof that the reader might entertain more than a general, or cursory apprehension, he gives him an hint by himself, and his own friends, what every true Britain should have either corporally or relatively felt.  Nick. 
Had he made an enumeration of the worthy Peers, whose massacre was murtherously intended, then would he have charged him (as I hear he doth for his Apology in the behalf of the most renowned, and ever memorable 
n Pag. 192.  Archbishop) with 
o Pag. 195.  base devotion, fawning, flattering conceits, foolish fiddling in their praises, and what not? Or else you should have seen them all summed up, with one and the same regardless account, that had the powder put out these 
p Page 4. Quod singulis congruit id etiam species.  I. Is. the Commonwealth had not lost any whit of her sight.  Ma. 
It is very probable, howsoever he speak of some of his own profession who detest that bloody plot more, and for higher respects than the Knight, yet it seems this Libeler is none of that number: for albeit there was an impossibility that Sir Edward should have gone to the pot alone, without the company of many noble Lords, and the rest his worthy associates there assembled, he sticks not to say, that if that powder had blown him up, the Commonwealth should have had no cause to bewail her loss. Thus doth the jabal Rachil bewray his true intention in the 
q 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. ●rist. Occon lib. 1. c. 2.  particular, which policy adviseth him to colour and conceal in the 
r De similibus idem et iudici●.  general.  Min. 
jabal Rachil! here is a new Hieroglyphic, spick and span, from the mint: you have on the sudden given him as fit a name as the best Linguist could possibly have invented. These two words do import as much as Flwius Detractionis, a Flood of Slanders; the first of which hath no nearer affinity with his name, than the other with his nature, as being rerum falsarum hamaxarins, so regardless of Kith and Kin, that he will be easily drawn, according to the Proverb 
s Fratrum quoque gratia rara est. Victa tacet p●●tas.  (with speed) to libel against his own Father and nearest of blood.  Nick. 
As I am true Groom. I thought Mr. Mayor had called him Rakehell, which he might well have warranted; For whatsoever Malice could invent, Sophistry suggest, Hypocrisy pretend, or Impudency maintain, his crooked finger hath raked together, out of the bogs of Hell, to cram this his railing Pamphlet withal.  Min. 
You have not yet heard all he hath to say, for the degrading of the Knight's valour, who (saith jabal) showeth no small want of 
t Pag. 4.  nobility and valour, in desiring that the most superlative severity might be practised in the sharpest research of that viperous brood, those merciless hellhounds, the Priests and jesuits, whom Mercy itself should be thought cruel ever to forgive.  Ma. 
Were he not passed all shame, he would have swallowed down that morsel with silence; The more he rubs that sore, the more he renews the memory of that Tragical end of Henry the fourth of France, whose princely breast carried to his grave the Characters of their graceless, and ungrateful disloyalty. Their murder of Kings, their garboils raised in free States, and their alienating the hearts of subjects from their obliged obedience, must not in any hand in them be held treason, but devotion; whereas on the contrary it is not Courage, but Cowardice, to seek by the execution of penal laws (which are now grown rusty for want of use) to free the country from such Wolves, who make themselves drunk with the blood of the Saints, playing with imperial Globes, as Whales do with barrels, which they toss up and down at their pleasures.  Min. 
Yet as if these things were nifles, no whit prejudicial to a Commonweal, he complaineth of want of the Knight's Charity, 
u Pag. 5.  Can any noble blood (saith he) harbour in that heart, that is so greedy of Innocent blood? The Lion spareth his prostrate enemy, whereas you long to tear out our hearts, in which you cannot find any sin, besides an over-feruent desire to 
* Viam Veritatis nescierunt.  help you to heaven.  Ma. 
An over-feruent desire indeed. Calescunt plus satis. Rather than fail, if there be any powder in a Country, they will send fiery Chariots to hoist us up into the Clouds.  Nick. 
It were better in my opinion to travel thither on foot; he shall be sure to lose much leather who spurs Cut so fast: but by his leave I will not hire such a blind Guide at so dear a rate. When I come to St Omers, Douai or Rome, he will bear me in hand, that I have a little further to travel, as being in the Suburbs of Paradise, whereas (God wots) I shall have gone so far out of my way, and then stand in need of a new help, to bring me out of the devils mouth.  Min. 
We shall hear anon what ghostly directions he will give us to further us in this voyage: In the mean season it is not amiss to observe what skill he useth in perverting the Knight's meaning. The Knight indeed professeth irreconcilable detestation; but of whom? Of the Incendiaries of the Romish forge. He proclaims not war against the Inueagled Ladies, and other poor seduced souls; his discretion hath taught him not to bind the nocent and innocent in one bundle. They are Incendiaries whom he brandeth as worthy perpetual detestation. Et quamdiu tales, as long as they deserve that denomination, I cannot see how the most regular Charity dare bid them God speed; neither doth he maliciously desire, but rather upon more than probable conjecture by way of caution foretell the 
x Pag. 6.  damnation of their souls who second those hellish Pioneers, in those devilish courses, which are so odious in the sight of God and man. Reason he had to express his dislike as pathetically as he could; for that he feared the like encouragements, and meritorious attributes, to such future attempts from the Papal Sea, by whose Agents that plot is now (in show) disclaimed; though rather for the 
y Proditionem amant Proditores infelices odisse simulant.  contrary success, than the barbarous immanity thereof.  Ma. 
I am verily persuaded the most Christian Charity would not stick to profess eternal opposition to that viperous brood, whose hearts harbour dangerous factions, whose tongues are tipped with malicious scandals, whose hands are imbrued in a Sea of innocent blood. If the great judge have 
z Foris canes, Apoc. 22.15.  shut the gates of heaven against such inveterate, and impenitent Murderers, I cannot see how mercy can be hired by the Pope's Indulgences to lend them a key for their entrance into life.  Nick. 
Tempora mutantur. It was no cruelty of yore to cast a poor harmless 
a Acts and Monuments.  infant springing from the scorched womb of the mother, into the fiery flames, there to be consumed; but now the very speech of Parliament severity against notorious traitors, and matchless Malefactors, argues want of Nobility and valour: the truth is, our justices may be well suspected for both, as being according to jabals account 
b Pag. 8.  taller men of their tongues, then of their hands. Did they employ their authority in suppressing them in their particular Shires, as well as they use their wits in decreeing against them in the Parliament house, they should gain more honour, and the Country reap far more good.  Min. 
Quae supra nos nihil ad nos. I dare say you long till you hear how he lays about him in the defence of Purgatory, but his meaning is to try your patience. The second part of his Apology touching certain exceptions against himself, taketh up the remainder of his first Chapter. For the dispatch of these 
c Pag. 11.  toys (so he terms them) as if he were challenging his Copesmate at tria sequuntur tria, he doth methodically divide this sequel into Flies, Fies and Lies.  Nick. 
The rhyme may well beseem Skelton the Poet, or 
d There was a wife of Croyden And she rid a stroyden, etc.  Elderton the Ballad-maker; but I would gladly see the reason; what means he by Flies?  Ma. 
Sir Edward (I remember) to abate the pride of his spurtling quill in blemishing the worth of other men's lines, gives him a taste of such an indecorum, woven throughout that work, as would enforce true Literature to blush at the very first sight thereof, there being very few leaves wherein the Reader shall not meet with a Cobweb, a Spider or a Fly. Some of which he there paged to save himself a labour in the discovery of those many other Solaecismes, Incongruities, and jobbing Parentheses, which any curious eye without the help of Spectacles might easily discern.  Nick. 
And what flap hath he gotten to free his paper from these magotting creatures, whose blowing hath made his periods so unsavoury?  Ma. 
He doth confess, and avoid. He forsooth had rather utter his mind in a crabbed than a new created phrase; as being 
e Pag. 12.  more curious that his doctrine be true, than his speech smooth.  Ma. 
He that will take upon him to Minorize the learning of Authors, and to dedicate his works unto persons of that extraordinary note, and superlative judgement, must not only weigh his positions in the balance of the sanctuary, that they be consonant to the truth, but 
f Omne tulit 〈◊〉 qui mis●● v●ile dulci.  polish them also with a Rhetorical file, that they want not those comely 
g Oratoris proprium, apt, distinct, ornateque dicere.  ornaments which are requisite in the Professors of Art. The fabric of Theological work ought to be raised ex lapidibus politis. Ragged and rugged stones are fit for the wild Quarry then to stand in the beautiful gate. To run a poor silly heartless Metaphor out of 
h Cram bis cocta.  breath, argues little variety of wit and less solidity of judgement.  Min. 
Will you see wit play her prize? then listen how prettily Rachil can defend Solacismes. 
i Pag. 14.  Such seeming faults (saith he) are by judicious censures esteemed not to be blemishes, but rather ornaments in the purest Writers. The style is childish which still feareth the rod, not daring to departed one syllable from the rules of Grammar. As in a Consort of sweet voices, a Discord now and then doth make the Music more pleasing, so the worthiest writers have let some jobs pass in their works, which rather delight then offend a judicious Reader.  Nick. 
Hear is a Lad for the nonce to help a lame dog over a style. O thou rarely patronized 
k Pag. 180.  Barbarity, down on thy marrowbones, prostrate thyself at the foot of this thy valorous Champion borne in 
l Pag. 171. Margin.  Brinitania, who hath stretched his five wits on the tenterhooks to maintain thy worth. 'tis great pity that this lusty juventus came so raw from the ferula; had he continued a little longer at School by this time he would have made the Welkin roar.  Ma. 
I know not how other men stand affected: for my own part, I have ever held that Fiddler worthy to be turned out of doors among the rascal company, (though he have a badge on his sleeve as broad as my hand) who still haps upon one string, and dwells upon one tune, be it the best hornpipe, that ever Lincolnshire afforded. Doth not one harsh bleating voice disgrace a whole choir? Doth not one unsavoury herb give a relish to the whole pot of pottage? A discord I grant may be admitted with some grace, but not continued without some intolerable disgust. In a word, if one fly mar a box of sweetest ointment, I cannot see what credit this multiplicity of Spiders, Cobwebs, & Flies can bring to jabals' book.  Nick. 
I hope we shall find better stuff in the rest; how doth he shake off the flies? they stick I fear so close to his skin, (maugre his 
m Pag. 11.  Neapolitan perfume) that they will hardly out of the bone.  Min. 
He 
n Pag. 15.  blusters mainly that the Knight should cry, Fie upon his generical and accidental Christening of Bells, relative honour of Images, and metaphorical division of the Kingdom between God and the Virgin.  Ma. 
Is he so impudent as to stand in the defence of these uncouth and ridiculous fopperies, which can show no other pedigree but heathenish folly, and Idolatrous superstition to countenance them from exploding contempt?  Min. 
As touching the first practice; he doth not say that Bells are 
o Pag. 15. Formula baptizandi campanas apud Durand. de Rit. lib. 1. ca 22.  Christened; but that the Blessing of bells hath some generical similitude with the Christening of a Child.  Ma. 
Whether it be a similitude, or an 
p Tantundem dat tantidem.  Identity I am not so cunning a Logician to distinguish. It skills not much how they please to tear me it, who are driven to their shifts in seeking some colourable mantle to shroud it from the inglorious note of heathenish bastardy. The question is, quo iure, what warrant he hath for this generical similitude, (which he confesseth) between the Blessing of Bells, and the Christening of a Child.  Min. 
Nay there he leaves you to your own search. If you can neither find Scripture, Father, nor ancient Council to warrant this practice, he means not to be your Informer. It sufficeth him being between Hawk and Buzzard to turn it over with a witless and uncivil jest, which he divideth between his old familiars the 
q Pag. 15.  Buzzard and the Ass.  Nick. 
I have heard some say there was once much ado about the 
r Eras. Adag.  shadow of an Ass: but there being store of that breed at Douai, jabal is now grown so nice, that he will not be seen upon the back of his old animal, wherefore the poor wearied Ass is feign to ride him.  Ma. 
'tis pity they should part companies; yet did I never see man more troubled with the mare in his sleep; then Rachil is at midday with the Ass, of whom he groans to be disburdened. Feign would he have the 
s Pag. 16.  Printer bear part of his luggage; but seeing it is now more than a year and a day since the Lazi-as was found as a stray, and cried in open Mart by Rabshakeh, the custom of the Manor (secundum usum Sarum) makes it his own, without cutting off either mane or 
t Pag. 47.  tail.  Min. 
My masters I am glad to see your wits so frolic; yet I must needs say it is but Lex talionis: besides, his reasoning approves more than you say. For admit a Venetian Pander, should put on the Pope's robes, his Triple Crown, his slipper, come with S. Peter's keys, sit down in the Conclave on the Chair appropriated to his Holiness: and that he should in his passage be saluted by the Vulgar as Pope (bearing those ensigns with which that Deity alone is dignified) Should he not be sure to be called Coram, and pay dear for this his generical, and accidental resemblance? Will it serve his turn to say, Alas no man heard me say that I was Paulus Quintus, I did but wear his vestments, and a little counterfeit his state.  Nick. 
I will give him my word he shall find it better to play the Devil, than so to imitate the Pope.  Ma. 
The case is of the same nature. The blessing of Bells is no less presumptuously accompanied with the sacred rites, and ceremonies of Baptism, (yea with greater solemnities) than the Christening of Children: so that the Say people know not how to distinguish them. Now mark how jabal plays the Pander, he doth not say that 
u Pag. 15.  Bells are Christened, only this, The blessing of Bells hath some general resemblance with Christening. Neither is the Venetian Pander Pope, though habited like the Pope: Shall he not be sure to have this peal or the like rung in his ears, by one 
* Eunuch. Act. 3 Scen. 5.  Antipho or other. Quo pergis ganeo? unde emergis, vestitum hunc nactus? quid tibi quaeris? Satin' sanus? quid sibi hic vestitus quaerit? I have so charitable an opinion of Rachil, that his reverent respect to the Primate of the Romish Sea, would make him say, Fie upon such a Pope. Yet (see how blind devotion overswaies th'equity of his judgement in the like) he quarrels with the Knight for saying, Fie upon your generical and accidental Christening of Bells.  Nick. 
Sets he no better gloss upon his relative honour of Images?  Min. 
He begs the question, and wonders any man should be so 
x Pag. 16.  dull, not to understand that which even children conceive, that honour done to the Image is no injury to the person, or that a Christian will deny to Christ in his Image, what any honourable person may challenge to his. 
y Pag. 17.  You (saith he) that cry fie upon the relative honour of our Saviour in his Cross, how would you have snarled at the noble Ladies of the Primitive Church, that did lick with their religious tongues the dust of that thrice Venerable Relic. 
z Pag. 18.  O glorious cause, which by such Epicureans is impugned, who worship Bacchus or Cupid in their Chambers.  Nick. 
In their Chambers? 'tis well he hath gotten the ground of Imaginary Chamber-work, to support the glory of his superstitious Church-work.  Ma. 
It would make any pious breast bleed, to recount those infinite and strange pollutions, wherewith their religious houses have been (as appeareth upon authentic Records) monstrously infected. I hope our chambers compared with their Monasteries, are as chapels paralleled with impure Sties.  Nick. 
Sir, it is our happiness that he can challenge us only with the 
a Pag. 16 & 17 Pulchra puella placet displicet umbra tibi.  pictures of fair Ladies. Had not their Chambers housed the living creatures themselves, I doubt whether he should have had so great cause to brag as he doth of the 
b Pag. 195. & 183.  works of devotion. There was a Benefactor called Satisfactory Penance, who builded more Hospitals, etc. then all the Voluntaries besides.  Ma. 
Yet put them all together, we are able to instance as many charitable 
c Willet his catalogue of charitable works.  works done in England within these 60. years, as I think were seen in many more before, especially if you compare the prizes, and rates, with those of former and less peopled times.  Min. 
Let not his taunts make us lose the conclusion; Our Relative love of senseless pictures (which he causelessly feareth cannot patronize the Relative honour of Images,) 
d Non fas est Christianum per oculos suspensum teneri sed per occupationem mentis.  he Idolatrously practiseth, and illiterately defendeth. For if he challenge no more honour for his Images, then noble persons to their pictures, (as he pretends) we will pass his suit, as a motion savouring of equity: but it is more than either a civil reverence, or an historical remembrance for which he laboureth, wherein his instance of the Matron Paula will not secure him: 
e Hieron. Epitaph. Paulae. ad Eustochiam Virg.  She lying prostrate before the cross kissed (as S. Hierome saith) the stone of the Sepulchre, which the Angel removed; yea she licked the place where the Lord had lain.  Ma. 
This I think is not to be disallowed: in the kissing of those sacred Relics, she gave testimony of her holy zeal, faith, and love to Christ. But did she deem them as Instruments, by the touch whereof she expected any effusion, or influence of grace?  Min. 
jabal would ●aine wrest it to his purpose, by mistranslation: She did use (saith he) to lie prostrate before the Cross, therein with a lively faith adoring Christ: whereas Hieromes words run thus. Prostrating herself before the Cross, she did adore, as if she had seen the Lord hanging thereon. Hierome saith not, she used to lie prostrate before the cross; but that now being come to Jerusalem, where she met with the real Cross, she prostrated herself, and how? before it, not unto it: Neither doth he say that therein she adored Christ (there jabal is out) but Prostrating herself before the Cross of Christ, she did adore, as if she had seen the Lord hanging thereon; that is, she fixed her remembrance upon Christ crucified, whom only she did adore. So that this being not the Image of the Cross, but the Cross itself, concludes not that honour of Images, which the 
f Non sunt duae adorationes sed una. Concil. Nicen. 2. Act. 4.  Romanists maintain, who doctrinally aver, that the Image, and the pattern of the Image, aught to be honoured with one, and the same honour of 
g Bellar. de cult. Imag.  Latria; making the Image partaker of Divine worship, (at the least accidentally) whereas Divine worship is in no part, or semblance, appliable to any, but to a Divine Essence.  Ma. 
In my conceit jabal is desirous to pick a quarrel with the Knight, who doth not condemn all relative Adoration, which his own Church practiseth in the receiving of the Communion, where we do divinely remember, and adore Christ, as dying upon the Cross, that being unto us a sacred remembrance of his death, until his coming: but he layeth the Fie upon that Relative honour, wherein the dumb creature, is made more than a demi-god, and honoured with Vows and Supplications, as if one and the same Saint could be present in all places, where his pictures are worshipped, to take notice of those particular homages, which whilst he was living upon the earth, he would never have permitted to be done to his own person. These Prayers and Offerings, neither did Paula practise, neither had the Knight reason to allow. Besides, we must beg leave to put a difference between an historical relation, and a determinative position, th'one being de facto, the other de iure.  Min. 
To take jabal in his right sense, (I mean his Antemeridian,) I would feign know whether the Pagans that worshipped the Images of the heathen Gods did not worship them by a 
h Non materias veneramur, non ipsá simulachra, sed eos in his colimus, quos dedicatio infert sacra. Haec ratio à Paganis quoque adferri solebat. Cassan. Consul. Art. 21. pag. 153.  relative adoration.  Ma. 
Nay under your correction, I have read in Strabo, and Herodotus, that the Persians did neither rear Statues, nor Altars to their Gods. The 
i Alex. ab Alex. lib. 2. c. 22.  Egyptians did scoff at their folly, who represented their Gods by Images. Lycurgus, though otherwise very ceremonious, did utterly disallow, that the glorious feature of the immortal Gods, should be counterfeited by any mortal shapes. Yea I have heard a good Divine allege S. 
k Lib. de civit. dei. ●. c. 31. ex Varrone.  Augustine's authority, that the ancient Romans for 170. years did worship their Gods without any Image.  Min. 
I grant there was a time, when Images were not at all, at least not so universal; they that were the first founders of them, 
l Aug. ibid.  Civitatibus suis metum dempserunt, et errorem addiderunt: which made those of the deepest reach positively forbid them, Ne Deorum maiestas simulachrorum stoliditate contemnerentur: lest the majesty of the Gods might grow into contempt, through the foolish inventions, and base metal, or matter, wherein they were represented; But I speak of those nations, and those times, wherein Images were in most request.  Nick. 
Either I heard a lie, or else there was a Philosopher, who having in his house a wooden Image of Hercules, did so highly esteem it, that when firing grew very scarce, he first cloven it, and then laid it along under the pot, saying; 
m Epiphan. in Ancorato de Diagora.  Now Hercules thy labours shall amount to a full Bakers dozen: thy ●centh labour shall be to seethe a calves head for my dinner. This was the relative honour, wherewith he honoured his Idol.  Ma. 
I can tell you as pretty a Tale as that: there have not been yet three moons, since a dainty collapsed creature, sold a very fair Crucifix to buy herself a Fan; and being reproved by a double-chind Mastix, her best answer was this: that she meant to have another engraven upon the handle, (in stead of her Arms) which should still be in her sight.  Min. 
I will not say she made a more useful exchange; for such pictures may well serve as historical monuments, by way of representation. But their admired 
n Lib. 9 Epist. 9 Indict. 4.  Gregory absolutely excludes them from all manner of worship, and adoration. Adorare Imagines omnibus modis devita. In any case (saith he) beware thou worship not Images. 
o Polyd. Virg. lib. 6. Invent. c. 13.  S. Hierome (if Polidore may be credited) assigns the reason, Ob metum Idololatriae, for fear of Idolatry, which by this means hath spread itself too far among the ruder sort.  Ma. 
Then I perceive the distinction of relative, and improper honour, is hatched only for an evasion, lest they seem to oppugn Antiquity, by their idolatrous practice.  Min. 
The ghostly Fathers, the Priests, have long sat upon it, but yet it is not fledge, 
p Lib. 2. de Imag. c. 21. & 22.  Bellarmine mars all that they have made; he allows more than relative honour. Imagines Christi, et Sanctorum, (saith he) venerandae sunt, non solum per accidens, et impropriè, sed etiam per se, & proprie &c. non solum ut vicem gerunt exemplaris. The Images of Christ, and of his Saints are to be worshipped, not only accidentally, and improperly, but simply and properly: that is, not only as they are resemblances of the Prototype, but as they are considered in themselves. On the contrary, 
q 
Non tantum si quis pre●es simulachris offerat, verum etia cum id aliquis simulat. Adverse. Celsum. lib. 7. ut Cassander consult. Art. 2. pag. 153.  
Quid te ad falsas imagines inclinas? Quid ad inepta simulachra corpus in curnas etc.  
In supernis Deum quaere, ut carere inferis possi●. Claud. Taurinen. adver. Theodem.   Origen holds it no better than a foolish and adulterous Profanation, even outwardly to seem to worship an Image. How is it possible to set these agreed, that are so much at odds.  Ma. 
I do not find that the Cherubins (having a divine and special institution) were ever applied by the jews unto holy worship; wherefore there is less colour for this relative honour of Images, whose erection is arbitrary, whose form hath little or no certainty, whose 
r Quid inter se tam contrarium quam Statuarium dispicere statuam adorare? Senec. in Moral.  makers are persons contemptible, and of small regard.  Min. 
Now you speak of the form of these Images, you put me in mind of the confession of their own Stapulensis, who in his book De una ex tribus Maria, writes thus: Fateor equidem libere, picturae aliquot caenae Domini mihi displicuere, et etiam ea quae, nisi memoria me fallit, visitur Mediolani, etc. I do indeed freely confess, that I have been sometimes scarce pleased with certain pictures of our Lord's Supper, even with that which, if I be not mistaken, is yet to be seen in a certain Monastery at Mediolanum; not that I disliked the Painter's skill, which was very rare, but because he kept no good decorum: Quandoquidem johannem magis puellam referentem, quam virum, et quam Apostolum ad Christi latus collocavit. Forsooth he placed john by Christ's side, more like a maid, than a man, or an Apostle.  Nick. 
We have the like picture in our Parlour at the Black Friars, but I warrant I should have looked upon it till dooms day, before I should have noted that Quirk. I promise you Faber shows himself a right honest man, to let them see their own Incongruous absurdity.  Ma. 
In my opinion jabal should have done well to have specified the extensive, and intensive degrees of this relative honour; for I have been informed by sundry travelers, landed in this Port, that one and the same Saint hath not always one and the same degree of honour, being more or less respected, with concourse, offerings, and adorations, according to the 
s Credunt eas sanctiores quae pretiosiores.  trimness of the form, richness of the matter, or the celebrity of the place, wherein the statue is erected.  Nick. 
This is right like one of our neighbour's Girls: if the Baby have not the holiday partlet, all the fat is in the fire, she is in the pout, all a mort.  Min. 
Such is the simplicity of ignorant people, they are carried away by these impostors with outward shows: which made the poor Clerk in Saint Omers secretly to remove the picture of the blessed Virgin, from an obscure seat, into a more conspicuous place of the Church: making as if the picture had in discontent of the former neglect, removed itself to a Site fit for adoration. He saw there was no other feat but this, to improve his veils.  Ma. 
And had not Avarice whispered in Rachils' ear, his pen would not have been half so violent in the defence of this heathenish, and relative honour, wherein he shows himself no less senseless than the brainless pictures, for which he is hired to plead.  Min. 
Well at length we are arrived at Puddle wharf, I mean at the last Fie. In this squeamish vein (saith he) you cast a Fie upon my saying, that by Metaphor God may be said to have 
t Divisum imperium cum jove Diva tenet.  divided his kingdom with the Virgin: What if I had said God had given her his whole Kingdom, his Throne, Sceptre; that Christ in person did wait on her, sitting at the table of glory; how would your Car have been mad at these Metaphors?  Nick. 
My Master thought he had to do with a Divine, but I perceive he hath met with a bangling Sophister.  Ma. 
It seems jabal hath not yet put his 
u Pag. 112.  nose into the sweet cup of God's glory, who hath so dull a scent in winding heavenly things.  Min. 
His argument is drawn a minore ad maius, and carries this sense. If all the faithful servants of God shall be partakers of this so great honour, then much more that glorious creature, who hath a pre-eminence above them all. But Christ hath promised the society of the faithful not only to 
* Luc. 22. v. 29. Dispono vobis sicut etc.  appoint unto them a kingdom, as his Father had appointed to him: but also to make them sit 
x Luc. 12. v. 37.  down at Table, to come forth to minister unto them. Therefore the Virgin may be said to have his whole Kingdom, Sceptre and Throne.  Ma. 
If this collection b●e good, every Christian shall have the like Sovereignty: for this Charter, as far as I perceive, runs with a vobis. 
y Psal. 149. v. 9  Such honour have all his Saints. The 
z Mensa hic accipitur pro coelestis vitae gloria. Gorrand. Mensa rotunda aeternitatis cuius in circuitu erimus sicut novellae olivarum.  table which our Saviour mentioneth is an Emblem of that rest, and satiety of joys wherewith we shall at his coming be all replenished. His serving us is not ministerium obsequij, to be taken as an act of humility: but rather ministerium suffragij, sen beneficij, as an act of his fatherly bounty, in 
a Qui in terra fuit dator virtutum in coelo est distributor praemiorum.  crowning us with more high advancement, then if the poorest vassal upon earth, should have the greatest Monarch to wait at his trencher. Neither do I take Sicut to be a note of equality, but of likeness, either in the order, or in the participation, of so much of his glory, as shall suffice for their perfect happiness.  Min. 
jabal makes no question of this; he is not ignorant, that where it is said, he shall set the 
b Mat. 25.33.  sheep on his right hand, we are to understand the participation not 
c Nulla comparatio inter Creaturas et Deum cadit, quia finiti ad infinitum nulla est Proportio. Petrus jerem.  an equality; much less any priority of his glory. He acknowledgeth these to be 
d Pag. 19  Metaphors, wherewith God doth use to exaggerate the happy estate of meaner Saints than his Mother: neither hath he any other meaning by this Metaphorical division of the Kingdom, between God and the Virgin, but that 
e Ouerth. pag. 168. & 169. Ad dextram ponere aliquem est honorare personam sicut legitur de Matre Salomonis. 1. Reg. ca 2 v. 19  she is in greatest favour with God: so potent in her intercession, that she delivereth from dangers, and bestoweth favours, and graces on whom she pleaseth; as one who by favour and friendship, doth both overrule the Court of justice, stopping such processes against us, as our sins do deserve, and rule the Court of mercy, being able by her intercession to obtain for us in that Court, whatsoever we do either need, or can reasonably desire.  Nick. 
I have heard the scholars of Oxford talk much of a non sequitur; were there any of them here he would put jabal to prove this inference. The blessed Virgin is in great favour with God, therefore she is Queen Regent in the Court of heaven: 
f Gloriam meam alteri non dabo. Isa 42. v. 8.  ergo to be invocated, ergo to be adored.  Min. 
Indeed this plea could not free the 
g Epiph. in Haeres.  Collirydians from the blur of Epiphanius his pen, by which they are branded with the infamous note of heretical Idolatry: and not without just cause, for albeit the Saints are invested in the glory of immortality, yet doth the Lord reserve the glory of his divinity as proper to himself, whereof he is so jealous, that he can in no hand endure such Luciferian spirits as shall attempt to 
h Nemo hunc honorem sumat.  rob him of any of his peculiar claims: as Vows, Prayers, Sacrifice, and the like religious homages. He it is alone, who searcheth the hearts, and the reins, whose mercy is above all his works. It is honour enough for the blessed Virgin to behold the face of her Saviour, to have a prime mansion in that spacious house, to cry hallelujah before the throne: but to erect a Court of special 
i Possumus provocare à foro justitiae Dei, ad Curiam. B. Maria. Bernardinus in Marial.  appeal, to summon suitors to prostrate themselves before her 
k Si quis à filio terreatur quia judex est, Mariam adeat quia Medicina est Holcot. in lib. Sap. Lect. 36.  throne, is more than either Astitit regina a dextris, or Dispono vobis regnum, dare probably avouch. Such positive conclusions built upon Metaphorical grounds, do prove little better than fallacies, a dicto secundum quid, ad dictum simpliciter.  Ma. 
You say right. For Christ's sovereign power over the whole world is incommunicable, and cannot be conveyed to the person of any creature: but the fruit and benefit of this power every one that is in Christ reapeth in his salvation: being exalted thereby, to sit in the heavenly places, as a partaker of Christ's glory; & having power from thence, even in his own person, to triumph over Sin, Death, and Hell, and to break them in pieces as the 
l Apoc. 2.27.  Vessels of a potter. This is the royalty there intended: if jabal set this string any higher, it will break, and fly in his face.  Min. 
The stretching of those Metaphors to reach own sense occasioned 
m De invent. l. 6. c. 13.  Polydores complaint. Bene multi rudiores (saith he) imaginibus magis fidunt, quàm Christo. Very many simple folk repose more confidence in Images, then in Christ. And that of 
n In Aug. de civit. lib. vlt. c. vlt.  Vives, Multi Christiani in re bona plerumque peccant, quod Divos Divasque non aliter venerantur, quam Deum. Many worship the Saints with the same honour, which is due unto God. Had it not been for these superstitious, and unbounded Encomiastiques, and metaphorical doxologyes, this Idolatry had not found the way into the Church door: but when the people were taught that God had given the Virgin the better half of his Kingdom, (which they understood to be a subordinate jurisdiction) than you must think they spared no 
o Altaria fumant.  cost at her Shrine: then were they as willing to set out the picture like a Goldy-locks, with Rebates, red Satin Petticoats, and lose Gowns, as they were to prank up her child, with a Velvet cap and Feather.  Ma. 
This homage seems to have some countenance, from the acknowledgement of the four and twenty Elders, who speak 
p Apoc. 5.10.  thus unto the Lamb. Thou hast made us unto our God, Kings and Priests, and we shall reign upon the earth; by which they intimate a kind of Regal jurisdiction, over those that breath upon this terrestrial Globe, which if it be granted, there can no cost be thought too much, either in the honour of her statue, or the purchase of her favour, who by all likelihood, is of highest esteem in the Court of heaven,  Min. 
jabal hath this 
q Ouerth. pag. 168.  text by the end, but (God wots) it will stand him in little steed: for those four and twenty Elders, do not represent the state of the Saints in heaven, but of the 
r Compared with Apoc. c. 1. ver. 6.  Church militant upon earth, Richardus de Sancto Vict. expounds the haps in their hands, to be the good works of the Saints, whose sweet harmony and delightful sound draweth others with whom they converse, to the contemplation and liking of heavenly things: their ordinary Gloss understands by them the mortification of the flesh. Their Ignatian 
s Blas. Vieg. in Apo. pag. 247.  Viegas takes these harps to signify the commemoration of Divine praises, which (saith he) the four and twenty Elders do set forth two manner of ways, viz. mortificatione passionum, & divini verbi praedicatione: by the mortification of their passions, & the preaching of the divine word; both which actions are to be performed by the living, & no way appliable to the departed, who feel neither the reluctation of the flesh, nor the 
t Imperfectum abolebitur.  defect of knowledge. As for the golden vials full of odours, he understands by them the hearts of the Saints, shining and glittering with Charity, wherewith they are so 
u Ausbertus.  replenished, that they pray not only for their friends, but also for their enemies (which duty our Saviour imposeth upon his living Disciples) who are subject to the Cross, from which those which are deceased are free.  Ma. 
These expositions seem to ratify your sense: but how are those Elders than said to be before the Lamb, to be about the Throne, and to reign upon the earth, seeing the children of God are here 
* Per aenigma.  sepositi, & depositi, wanting the glorious 
x Deum nemo vidit unquam.  light of God's vision, and the pre-eminence of the world's graceful 
y Purgamenta mundi. 1. Cor. c. 4. v. 13  estimation?  Min. 
The Lord who hath promised not to leave us, but to be with us unto the end of the world, is daily resident in the midst of his sanctuary; where we enjoy the sweet comforts of his presence, as sensibly as if he were visible amongst us. We offer unto him from the Vials of our hearts the sweet odours, and pleasing incense of our hearty prayers: by virtue also of his spirit we are enabled to overcome the 
z Regnabimus super terram id est super corpus nostrum quod de terra est. Gorrand.  concupiscence of the flesh, and all carnal desires. Thus do we not only perform the offices of our spiritual Priesthood, but also by the law of virtue 
a Hamo.  reign like Kings upon the earth; which is the royal prerogative there specified.  Nick. 
Then I see jabals' Relative honour of Images, and his figurative division of God's kingdom to the Virgin, had need bespeak a new pair of Stilts, his old Crutches will not carry him out of the reach of that Fie, by which he is justly attached for no less than petty-treason, in adulterating the general, and genuine sense of holy writ. The Paper he hath spent in this pettish vain, would have made excellent provender for 
b Pag. 137.  Dunne.  Min. 
Yet will he make you stop your nose a little longer. He presents us further with a Posy of such rank flowers, as are able to poison a quick sent: We must be feign to trace him one round more about this Dunghill of unsavoury Fies, which noisome Weeds he bindeth up, as if they were so many sweet Violets, or wholesome honeysuckles.  Ma. 
I would gladly hear what his Appendix hath to say.  Min. 

c Pag. 19  You think (quoth he) you have brought me to a bay, when you force me to confess that our Church Hymns are figurative Poems: but are not the Psalms of David the chiefest Hymns of God his Church? and are not these Poems full of figurative speeches? Why then may not a Theological invocation be uttered in a fugurative speech?  Nick. 
My Master hath been a piece of a Poet in his days, therefore I cannot think he would debar that commendable Science from her most laudable use.  Min. 
That which the Knight distasted was this: whereas Rabshacheh could not be ignorant of the general position, and practise of his fellow Cacoliques, in adoring, and invocating the Virgin Mary with these and the like orisons. 
d In prosa Missae de concep.  Tu spes certa miserorum, Vera Mater Orphanorum, Tu levamen oppressorum, medicamen infirmorum, omnibus es omnia; And again, Gaude Matrona caelica etc. Tu ancilla jesu Christi vocari voluisti, sed ut docet lex divina, tu ipsius es 
e jure matris impera. Horar. second chorum. Augustensem.  Domina, nam ius habet et ratio matrem praeesse filio etc. He notwithstanding plays the coward, and leaves Sedulius in the lurch, who doth descant upon the same playne-song; answering the exceptions taken against his 
f Ouerth. p. 40  Scribanius for the like blasphemies, with this colourable evasion. Such is the notorious folly of your Preacher 
g Ouerth. praef. pag. 37.  saith he, that he gathereth a Gospel out of a Poem, and that not written historically, or doctrinally, but in pathetical verse, full of Metaphors, Metonomies, Apostrophs, Prosopopeis, and other as well rhethoricall figures, as Poetical flowers, which to take in a proper and of rigorous sense, is folly, to urge them as points & articles faith, is such a solemn foolery, that it may seem the next degree to madness. 
h Ouerth. pag. 40.  He should know the difference betwixt an Evangelist, and a Poet, a Gospel and a Poem, rigid truth, and figurative speech, Articles of Faith, and poetical fancies.  Ma. 
Is not this to shift off their Idolatrous appeals, their mental, and 
i Ouerth. pag. 44.  imaginary petitions to the Poet's pen? Doth he not plainly proclaim their Church Hymns to be 
k Ibid.  figurative poems, and poetical fancies? Thus for all the world did his Grandsire Harding play his prize, saying it was not blasphemy, but spiritual dalliance, to bid the Virgin command her Son, and to show herself to be a mother.  Nick. 
Calls he this dalliance? there is no jesting with edge-tools: their 
l So he styleth the Author of this poem.  grave, learned, and venerable Fathers I see are merry men, to dally with the Queen of Heaven, as children with puppets, to whom they speak in as sober sadness, as if they did understand what goshipping meant.  Min. 
Then doth JABAL dance after his pipe. The verses which Master Crashawe taxed for too much sauciness were these. 

m Ouerth. pag. 38  Say to thy mother seeing brother's thirst,  
Mother your milk would ease him at the first, etc.  This speech, saith JABAL, is imagined to show the great familiarity, betwixt Christ, and his blessed Mother, that she hath a special interest in the joys, and comforts (metaphorically termed milk) that flow into the Soul, by the devout contemplation of her blessed breasts; which comforts are not granted, but to whom she doth singularly favour, nor given without her consent.  Nick. 
Nimia familiaritas parit contemptum: this exposition is far fetched, dear bought, and fit for his Lady's tooth.  Min. 
Indeed he 
n Ouerth. pag. 40.  confesseth that herein the recreation of some Catholics was especially intended: as if any true Christian heart could take any comfort, to see Christ so degraded, as to become a suppliant to his 
o 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  Mother: so debarred that he cannot grant spiritual comforts, but by her consent.  Nick. 
He plays the Tinker up and down; he stops one hole, and makes two.  Ma. 
It is an old saying, Iniquum petas ut aequum feras: Because he would have no question made, but that the Virgin may be solicited to be a mediator to her son, he takes it for granted, that in contemplation Christ may be imagined to sue unto her; as if religious meditation had no better ground, then impossible and unwarranted supposition.  Min. 
What do you talk of contemplation? For that he puts 
p Ouerth. pag 44.  Riccius and Puentes to school: Will you hear his positions? When one doth meditate (saith he) on the Virgin's 
q Ouerth. pag. 41.  breasts as she is God's mother, the object is equal to the object we think of in the wounds and blood of Christ. And why? Because in the breasts of the Virgin, as she is God's mother, we must needs contemplate and behold Christ in her Virginal arms. Nay more, For a man to run to Christ's blood, which was shed to cleanse sinners; is a token that he doth acknowledge himself a sinner, and a needy suppliant: but to 
r Ouerth. pag. 47.  approach the Virgin's breasts, which were not filled with milk, but only to nurse the Son of God, and comfort th'especial devoted to Christ's blessed childhood, might seem to savour of pride, and arrogancy.  Ma. 
The very relation of these uncouth phrases, is a sufficient confutation. His divinity me thinks speaks a strange language: The 
s A poetical conceit, saith he, may be raised of small ground or fancy. Ouerth. pa. 47.  object of the Virgin's breasts is equal to the object of Christ's wounds; To run to Christ's blood is humility, to approach the Virgin's breasts arrogancy; these are new Positions, neither have they been long acquainted, for th'one is at daggers drawing with th'other. If the objects be equal, they cannot but admit like access to a religious mind. But is there no difference between that which is an object terminative per se, as the 
t Scire Christum crucifixum  wounds of Christ, and that which is an object relative per accidens, as the Virgin's breasts? Is the 
u Finis coronat opus.  consummation, or the Initiation of more esteem? Quod efficit tale magis est tale. If there were any such imaginary virtue as jabal supposeth in the Virgin's breasts, whence did it proceed, but from the child of her womb, for whom alone (he saith) it was prepared? If for him alone, then are they like to find her a dry Nurse and to get a simple soap; that come so long after the weaning. I would gladly be informed what Scriptures we have to draw us to this object.  Nick. 
jabal will not be found in his Chamber at 
* Pag. 199.  Cacopolis, when he should bring in his authority; It must be feign to stay upon the first 
x Ouerth. pag. 44.  operation of his own understanding. His she-pupills must apprehendit, without 
y Ibid.  judging it to be so as they apprehend.  Min. 
He would feign countenance this his imaginary dream, with an instance of 
z Ouerth. pag. 41  Saint Austin's devotion, who broke out into these words: In medio positus, quò me vertam nescio: Hinc pascor à vulnere: Hinc lactor ab ubere; where that holy Father was at a stand, Whether he should more admire his Saviour bleeding on the Cross, or sucking of his mother's 
a Causa sine qua non.  breasts. So comfortable, and meritorious was his ineffable humility in th'one, and his matchless Charity in th'other, that he speaketh Metonymically (naming the breasts for him that sucked the breasts) it is to be attributed to the like tone and cadence, which his sentences do ordinarily affect: for on the sudden I cannot call to mind where he directs us to repair to the Virgin's breasts for spiritual comforts.  Ma. 
If it savour of pride and arrogancy to approach unto them, we will be content to leave them to the pontificial soaring spirits: our humility shall content itself to know Christ and him crucified. Had not the blessed Virgin herself fed upon this object, the milk of her breasts would not have slaked the thirst of her soul:  Nick. 
Had I been at his elbow, I could have helped him to a merry Fable, which I once heard related out of Friar 
b In serm. Dom. prim. post. Oct. Epiph. pag. 25.  jeremy. That there was a certain man, who every day devoutly saluted the Virgin with an ave Marie, dying notwithstanding in mortal sin afterwards: And when, (I tremble to speak) the Devils would have seized upon his soul, the Angels, (O comfortable message) bade them stay, till sentence were given by Christ. Then were all his sins put in one Scale, (marry he told me not by whom the Balance was held) and the 
c Ideo dicit Ecclesia ad ipsam in Hym. Monstra ●e esse matrem.  ave Maries in the other: upon which the Blessed Virgin no sooner laid her helping hand, but it over weiged the first by many ounces. And so the Virgin obtained that he might be restored to life again, to do further penance. Here had been a proof for jabal, begond D. la. sol.  Min. 
Unless we were sure of a day, as long 
d Nox facta est longior, Plaut.  as Alcmena's night, we must make more haste. jabal hath with a pretty slight drawn us into a Labyrinth: for whereas the Counter snarl branded his Poet's pen, with reference to his Overthrow. pag. 37. he cunningly fetcheth a 
e Pag. 20.  circuit, and meets him pag. 164. and takes that which was quoted of Sedulius the Poet, to be meant of Bernardinus the Preacher.  Nick. 
Rachil knows how to turn the Cat in the pan, to sing two parts in one, as well as the best chanter in the Pope's Choir: wherefore that we may at last take our tune in a right Key, let us hear what he hath to justify Sedulius his figurative invocation of the 
f All hail O Cross.  Cross; What can it say for itself, why it should pass without a fie?  Mi. 
He hath gotten a protection from the practice of the Prophet 
g Cap. 45. v. 8.  Isayah, who by the like figure, speaketh to the heavens and clouds, to send down the Saviour of Mankind. O you heavens, (saith he) pour down your dew, and let the clouds rain down the Saviour: This prayer (saith jabal) is meant unto God that ruleth in the Heavens, and the Clouds; though seemingly directed to the very Heavens and Clouds.  Nick. 
He might have learned from the Countersnarle to have distinguished between an hyperbolical exaggeration and a superstitious obsecration. Yet doth he come over my Master with a why not, saying, Why may not a Theological invocation be uttered in a figurative speech?  Ma. 
First let him prove Invocation to be due to the 
h Pari ratione Adorentur pu●llae virgines praesepia, veteres panni: adorentur naves, adorentur Asini quia Asellum insidendo ad Hierusalem usque pervenit. Claud. Taurinen.  Cross, and then will we not stand with him for the figure. Figures are to be used as ornaments of the truth, not as shelters of falsehood. Did Isaiah fall down to the Clouds, and worship them, as they the Cross? Did he say All hail O Clouds, as they, All hail O Cross, increase justice and Righteousness in godly men, and grant pardon to the guilty. If not, then quorsum haec? as just as Germans lips, nine mile a sunder.  Min. 
His Seraphical Doctor Thomas 
i Thomas super Isayam. cap. 45.  Aquinas made no such collection out of that text of Isayah: his words are these, Hic describit nativitatem Cyri sub Metaphora fructus arboris, ad cuius generationem requiritur humor terrae & plwia, & ros de coelo. Here he describeth the birth of Cyrus, by the metaphor of the fruit of a tree, to the ripening whereof there must concur, the moistness of the earth, & the dew of heaven. The truth is, let him take the words in what sense he will, either literally of Cyrus, or according to Saint Hierome, Tipically of Christ, the context makes it evident, that the Prophet speaks not in his own person as a 
k Non sunt verba hominis precantis, sed Dei imperantis.  suppliant, but in the person of God, whose imperative mandamus, for the comfort of all true Israelites, he there Prophetically recordeth.  Ma. 
If this be his best colour, a little shower will wash it of; We do not find that the Prophet prayed unto the Angels, wherefore it is not probable, he would either worship or direct religious petitions to the senseless Clouds. Indeed he 
l Isay c. 1. v. 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  elsewhere calls upon the Heavens, and the Earth to hear; but with what intent? only to upbraid the stupidity of the graceless people, who stopped their ears like the death Adder: 
m Super Isayam. Cap. 45.  Inuocatur Creatura (saith Thomas) ut arbiter trangressionis in judicium, quae fuit testis obligationis ad praeceptum.  Nick. 
If this be his doughty argument it is like to prove but a wooden Cross. jabal must cast a better figure, if he mean to raise any spiritual adoration thereunto. To put no difference between speaking to the clouds, and praying to the Cross argues a dull Dowist indeed. But are we not yet past his odoriferous Fies? I verily think Augaeus did not put Hercules to more drudgery in emptying his stable, than he hath done us, in turning over this unsavoury trash.  Min. 
Yes, he now bringeth in his Compurgators to free him from th'imputation of those slanderous Lies, wherewith he is justly charged.  Ma. 
They must be of his own rank or else he must give us leave to put them by.  Nick. 
Then must we expect a goodly Fraternitic, rather than fail he will foist in a 
n Pag. 27  Knight of the Post to back his false Assertions, or else some of those Friars, whose portraiture Stephen Gardiner delineateth in this form. The Devil 
o Against joy.. pag. 5.  quoth he, to have man idle, and void of good works, procured out Pardons from Rome, wherein Heaven was sold for a little money: And for to retail that Merchandise, he used Friars for his Ministers. Now they be gone, with all their trumpery, both the Merchandise is abhorred, and the Ministers also; We cannot away with the Friars, ne can abide the name. So that we have reason to except against these.  Min. 
I persuade myself he will hardly find any so brazenfaced, as to aver that In 
p Ouerth. pag 239.  England Ministers sometimes presume to give Baptism in the juice of herbs, or flowers, as in Rose water, which jabal scandalously professeth, that he hath credibly heard.  Ma. 
Malice itself cannot be so purblind, as not to discern in what Limbeck this water was distilled, which hath so strong a relish of a Cretian brain. If this be not a Lie in Folio, we must confess, there can nothing but truth drop from a Shavelings pen.  Nick. 
The fume of the holy water, wherewith he besprinkled his Ladies, was in his nose when he breathed out this notorious fiction. Yet of the twain, I had rather be dipped over head and ears in rose-water, then have such a goatish Gorgonius to spit in my mouth.  Min. 
There is no remedy but his imaginary supposals must pass as currant Oracles. If the Pope can not err, you must think a Priest cannot lie. If he tax our Ministers as being 
q Pag. 27.  skilful in taking of purses, or as ordinary students in 
r Ouerth. pag. 53.  impure books, his creatures under peril of a praemunire, are bound to second his leaden Legends, with their credulous assent.  Ma. 
He would not be so busy in blasting our Ministers, did he remember the letter, which a Friar brought from hell to certain Priests of his own Order; the tenor whereof was this. Principes tenebrarum, Principibus Ecclesiarum Salutem. Gratias vobis referimus, quia quot vobis commissi, tot sunt nobis missi.  Min. 
You say well, Friar 
s In sermone de f●●to Sancti ●las● pag. 36. b.  jeremy hath registered it upon record, wherefore jabal hath reason to believe it: but I fear the poor Friar is like to have but a simple fee for his pains.  Nick. 
Rachil shall be sure to have my voice for the whetstone; he dwells among such kind neighbours that he hath a credible author always at hand, to set wings upon his depraving quill, which he cannot endure to be stopped in the precipitate flight.  Min. 
It sore grieved the heart of honest Helmetius to see the profaneness of that tribe. 
t Henr. Helmetiu● T●m. 3. Ser. Se●n dic●r●●e●s.  Heu, heu, (saith he) ipsis lenonibus impudentiores, et carnaliores sunt multi Sacerdotes, et Scurris secleratiores. 'tis well he hath nothing to charge us withal, but that which he gathereth from factious rumours spread by malevelous spirits, to bring our persons and doctrine into contempt. Yet as if his cares were made of touchston to try the truth, he stands to justify whatsoeu●r he hath heard, though it swell ten times bigger by the touch of his venomous pen. Hark how he takes on with the Knight: You cannot 
u Fides non cogitur.  believe (saith he) that a Gentleman of honour, from my Lord De la Wares own mouth brought me news, that he could not get of your Universities, more than one Minister, to go to the evangelical voyage of Virginia.  Ma. 
The Knight should be ill advised to cope with such a chimney-sweeper as this Rachil is, from whom he shall get nothing but soot, though he give him the foil. What hope can there be of good dealing from him, who is never destitute of some honourable person or other, to Father his misbegotten fictions? who will not believe the testimony of a Gentleman of Honour? the very title gains credit wheresoever it goes. Thus will he coin what he please, with th'impress of his own sinister imagination. But first let us have assurance of his good behaviour, if he would have us believe, that he hath such a familiar converse, with men of that note: otherwise we cannot but suspect his author's wit, in the prodigal emptying of news to such a blab, who hath no more hold of his tongue, than he would seem to have of his 
* Pag. 27.  purse.  Nick. 
Well; because he shall be beholding unto us, let us grant first that the founder was honourable, though perhaps no better man than jabal: Secondly that the relation was true, which my Master doth not gainsay; what will he thence infer?  Min. 
Nay for Logical deductions let him alone, he will hale his intent with a Cart-rope of forced Absurdities, rather than fail of his purpose; Witness these consequences: Sir Edward is said to love 
* Preface  Wine and Sugar; Ergo when he wrote, the 
y Pag. 56.  single Lamp doubled in his eye, which happeneth to them that love wine, when they have their Cup in their hand. Ergo in Father 
z Pag. 94.  Ennius' case. Again, Sir Edward can repeat more than a piece of Augustine without a prompter; Ergo he hath the large 
a Pag. 3.  Volumes of that learned Father without book. And his 
b Pag. 85.  nose did not smoke so much as his attorneys, Ergo he hath a big nose: with a million of such sandy 
c Well beseeming a Bangoring disputant. Pag. 168.  Enthymems.  Nick. 
Is this the 
d Pag. 84.  rigour of Logic? this is right, Baculus stat in angulo. Ergo, Tobies' Dog wagged his tail. If this be the validity of his invincible arguments, he must be feign to sell his 
e Preface.  cloth of silver, and costly merchandise, or else he will hardly maintain those halt & maimed reasons, which will lose their limbs in this conflict. His best way will be to give them a Passport to beg for relief.  Ma. 
He professeth that he did 
f Pag. 13.  seriously undertake this task, therefore I would gladly be informed what disparagement can be fastened upon our Ministry, from the Paucity of Virginian Preachers.  Min. 
Marry want of zeal, as rather 
g Ouerth. pag. 320.  converting themselves to their wives, then bringing Heathens, and Savages, unto God. For my part (saith he) I make no doubt but had there been a married Ministry in the Church in former ages, most nations had been unconverted at this day.  Ma. 
As if our Academics, who are Fellows of Colleges (whom he upbraideth) were married men, than had he spoken somewhat to the purpose: but (not to put him besides his opinionative conjecture) he should rather have commended their discretion. For though they had neither wives nor parochial charges to detain them, yet might they well think to do little good, the language of that people being not yet understood by those of the first plantation. Moreover it is not fit that students in Divinity should be of jabalis gadding humour, to run rashly into foreign parts, without the 
h Campian had order from his Provost, as he professeth before he undertook his voyage.  command of authority; Neither had authority reason to send, before they had lawful power of command in the territories of the Infidels. As soon as Commerce hath bred greater familiarity, he may assure himself, the Labourers shall not be few. And for the conversion of the Indies, wherewith he seems to confront us, the Christian world hath taken sufficient notice. It was wrought rather o'er gladij, then Gladio oris, with the point of the sword, then with the dint of argument; otherwise their tyrannous and avaricious projects had been enough to drive them from the faith; though they had been somewhat addicted thereunto before.  Min. 
These and many more reasons might the Knight have alleged, which he rather chose to leave to his manuring, to whose purchase that subject did appertain. The Libelers inquisitive curiosity, in stuffing his book with hearesayes, and reports, was that against which he did inveigh, as holding it not fit for a private obscure fellow, to intermeddle in the Secrecies of privy Counsellors, much less in the managing of public affairs, wherein there are many abstruse mysteries far above common reach.  Nick. 
But did he not term his Countrymen 
i Ouerth. pag 81.  Parlamentariens? Did he not covertly exclude that glorious Queen's Ghost, from the company of her Ancestors? Dares he put a mentiri also upon these?  Ma. 
Howsoever he understand the word 
k Nec tales alibi s●cile 〈◊〉 tot. Aug. Con. jul.  Parlamentarians, we may count it the great happiness of our English nation, that they who deserved the greatest interest in that name, have testified their religious and well disposed minds in such a kind, as jabal will either unwillingly hear, or hardly believe. S. Margaret's Church at Westminster (where upon the seventeenth of April last, 
l To the number of 409. that day present.  the whole house of Commons then arrived, by their own voluntary order received the Communion together) can sufficiently testify the unanimity of their consent, the piety, loyalty, and charity of their affections; Neither was any after admitted into that house, until he had given testimony of his sincerity by seconding the same.  Nick. 
If this be the fruit of Parlamentarians, than out of doubt the Pope's cake is dow: Antichrist will be soon out of heart and hope, for ever displaying his holy banner upon Britain's Soil. It is not the supposed rusticity of one man's pen, that can make that nation be reputed either Clownish or infamous, which hath variety of such worthy and well disposed Burgesses. But let us hear how he shifts off that implicit censure, whereby he debarred the late Queen's soul from accompanying her predecessors. His words are yet extant in this form. This Queen is now gathered to her Father (
m Ouerth. pag. 104.  I cannot say Fathers) seeing not one of her noble Ancestors besides him, were of her faith, nor he but in part.)  Min. 
jabal shows himself a man of valour, he will not budge an inch from his word, he now 
n Pag. 25.  bounds this his shameless Parenthesis with a strong fence. Why should his company (saith he) seem dishonourable to that Saint? Do you fear he may marry with his daughter in that world, as it is 
o Mark his old Demonstration.  reported he did in this? Or do you glance at the doubtfulness of her blood, that perchance not the King, but some other put to death with her mother, was indeed her true father?  Nick. 
He mends the matter well, and speaks like a grave Divine: this is a right model of Romish charity. Had jabals' Grandfather blurted out half so much, his head would have been soon set higher than his hands could have well reached, his clothes would have dropped into the hang man's budget.  Ma. 
The wrong complained of was in consorting her with her Father, but in sequestering them both from the rest of their royal progenitors, though it please him to cast doubts with his wit, for his Catholic partiality to decide. But if none of her forefathers were of her Faith, than was there no small injustice in the Pope to 
p Vide Doctor Whites defence. ca 6. Numb. 3.  depose, and murder so many of them, by his regular Agents. No marvel if fear compelled many of them to conceal their Faith, where there was such appearance of hazarding their Crowns.  Min. 
We must confess her Father was a man, and so subject to infirmities, which yet had been much less, had they not been fuelled by the Pope's temporising dispensations. He was also a potent King, & so subject to unjust detractions. But were old Bishop Longland his Confessor now alive, he would take up jabal for Hawks-meate, and teach him a trick for blowing the dust of dead Princes into the eyes of living posterity.  Ma. 
What was the opinion of that reverend Prelate, touching that King, whom jabal collyeth with his sinister and causeless doubts.  Min. 
You shall hear him deliver his mind in his own 
q In Epist. praesi●. Psal. penitent.  phrase. Huius eruditio singularis, prudentia summa, moderatio certa, temperantia mira, patientia firma, benignitas absoluta, pietas admiranda, judicium grave, perspicax, solidum, et perfectum, virtutum omnium exercitatio quotidiana. Thus doth he extol that King, whose renown jabal seeks so to eclipse, by the interposition of an incestuous crime. Nay he doth not stick to say, Psalmorum quos david octo beatitudinibus praeditus conscripsit interpretationes, ad Henricum eius nominis Octawm invictissimum Angliae regem spectant: concluding that whatsoever was eminent in David's virtues, was every way appliable to Henry the eight; Cui (saith he) cum caeteris earundem beatitudinum candidatis, in octava illa aetate salus et gloria non dubitanter expectantur. So that till jabals credit be held equivalent with the Bishop's worth; we must crave leave to believe him, to whom the King was best known.  Ma. 
Had he not named Henry the eight, I should verily have thought, I had heard a vive description of that Noble Lady, that Matchless Princess Queen Elizabeth in whom all these rare qualities had such a visible essence: and had her Father been silent, she should yet have been 
r Ex quovis ligno non fit Mercurius.  more than probably judged, to be the royal 
s Forts creantur fortibus & bonis.  daughter of so great a King.  Nick. 
I would not wish his brother the jewsewite of Portugal to stir this Pamphletter too much, if he do he will not spare to impeach his own mother's honesty to prove him illegitimate. If all men were of my mind, there should none vow Virginity, seeing there is so little respect of a Virgin Queen.  Ma. 
You see how tender his conscience is, in bolting out his own conjectures against the dead, the hem of whose garments he was unworthy to touch; What hath he more to say? Let us hear him out to the last period.  Min. 
He will not yield that he was hired by the 
t Pag. 27.  Lady's liberal purse-promises; this is a base surmise: Education hath made him too proud, to stoop to such base cares. He (good man) is content with the inexhaust treasure of his providence, who feedeth the birds of the air.  Ma. 
'tis well experience hath yet at last made those honourable Lady's wiser, then to waste their husband's patrimonies upon such Epicures, whose bellies are deeper than the bottom less pit. Let them once rid their hands of these Locusts, and I dare undertake their Lords will turn purchasers: wheresoever these lean Kine come, they will soon devour the fattest Manor: both head, hide, and hoof; they will make no bones of a Lordship. It must be an inexhaust treasure indeed, that can stop a Popelings mouth; witness those infinite revenues, not far inferior to those of the Crown, which that Antichristian beast did suck, out of this little I'll. I think the Popes have been well paid for their pretended conversion of this Land, so that it is now injustice for their hirelings to 
u Ouerth. pag. 323.  twit us in the teeth therewith any more being answered to the full.  Nick. 
Sure Rachil hath better fortune than all his fellows, that he is grown so careless of coin: his poor Camragues of Douai (who think themselves not inferior) complain of their 
* Preface to the Dowy Bible.  poor estate in banishment. Had they had jabals' purse, their translation of the old testament should not have lain so long upon their hands.  Ma. 
There is great reason they should 
x Socij laboris participes mercedis.  part stakes. But do you observe their juggling? when they would have their Ladies stretch their purse-strings, than they complain of poor estate, pretending extreme poverty; though they have enough of the old store, to fee the traitorous Agents to weary the press with scandalous untruths, & to trouble whole States, with seditious garboils: but when they are accused as mercenary hirelings, aiming rather at the disgrace of particular persons, than the trial of the truth; then forsooth they scorn the motion, than 
y Pag. 27.  our Ministers are more skilful in taking other men's purses, than they are in keeping their own.  Min. 
He professeth, if he may be credited upon his word, that he was not a penny richer by that deceased Lady, who was thought to give the first pecuniary encouragement to his pen.  Nick. 
Me thinks I smell a Rat, for a wager here is a cast of equivocation. He was not a penny richer by her. vizt. after she renounced the Romish trash: and with this reservation, I dare swear Rachil speaks truth.  Min. 
Nay he heard a 
z Well fare Nicholas Nemo he will help at a pinch. Pag. 22.  nameless Knight of better credit than your Master, avouch that she died in the Catholic faith.  Nick. 
That is in the faith which Protestants hold to be Catholic: Otherwise she would never have sought for new servants, of another lare, to be placed about her; neither would she have heard divine Service (though secretly) according to our English liturgy, nor refused confession: happily she was not thoroughly resolved in all points, neither was it 
a Omnis subita mutatio periculosa.  possible, that an habit so long continued, should be so suddenly removed. The truth is, she found herself so wearied with the Ignatian fopperies, that she could not endure their access, which some of them did not well digest.  Min. 
Then here is the Catastrophe of this Scene: his next Chapter is wholly elenchtical; but seeing he can no better defend himself, there is no great likelihood he should much offend us. By my consent in this his next material tract, 
b 
Ne inquam & inquit saepius interponerentur. Cic.  
Non tam seruiendum venustati Dialogorum quam materiae commoditati, cum stultum foret maiorem utilitatem propter minorem negligere. Laur. Val. de. vol. lib. 3   jabal shall have a course to speak in his own person, so shall our Dialogue make a full mess.  Nick. 
Then enter Doctor jabal, thou shalt have my good leave to play the Prolocutor.    

PURGATORIES KNELL.  

CHAP. II. The Macchabees unthronized.  jabal 
I 
a Pag. 26.  should not match myself with such contemptible adversaries, by whose overthrow, profit (and that eternal) may accrue unto them, small praise redound to myself, by the conquest of scolding and feminine Antagonists; Yet 
b Pag. 3.  now seeing you provoke me thereunto, I will 
c Pag. 29.  boldly survey the Knight's Hell, or Letter against Purgatory. The 
d Pref.  judicious Reader will not wonder that your rude hammering with heavy reproaches on the Rock of truth, doth fetch out some lively sparks of just disdain.  Nick. 
What! contemptible adversaries? 
e Quod efficit tale magis tale.  scolding & feminine Antagonists? rude hammering? Just disdain? so blunt at the first dash? are these your Douai salutations? 'tis well, Master Maior, we have your company to keep the peace. Out of doubt the Doctor hath pissed on a nettle: his Nurse was too blame, she should have given him more stamped Grunsill in his milk, he is so exceedingly troubled with the fret.  Ma. 
Surely Sir (with your favour) I see no such reason for your contemptuous disdain. If you stand upon your Schollershippe, I dare say our Vicar hath gone as long to School; If upon your place, I would you should know, I am not the meanest man in my Corporation; Or if the opinion of your wit, have blown up the empty bladder of this your swollen conceit, here is honest Nick a boon Lad, one that 
f Novit & is lepidas audire et reddere voces.  knows how to take, and return a jest, as well as the best youth in the Parish. I dare undertake he shall hold you play to the last cast: always provided that there do no 
g Pref.  smoky mists of personal Scoffs against the Knight his Master vamp from your marish mouth, for than he will be as hot as a toast, you shall find he will carry no coals, if once you touch his copie-hold.  Min. 
Then shall we not need to decline this survey 
h Singulis pro persona & dignitate orationem assignavinius.  th'opponent being thus fitted ad omnia quare; whether he be material, facete, or verbal, he shallbe met withal upon equal terms with his own weapons in his own kind: Wherefore Domine JABAL rem aggredere: what 
i pag. 29.  Folly and falsehood can you discover in the Knight's Letter to T. H?  jab. 
If 
k pag. 30.  lying killeth the soul, what are the Knights leaves but a dead letter, wherein there are gross and inexcusable corruptions of the most learned of the Ancient Fathers, concerning a point of highest importance, to wit the Canonical authority of the Book of Macchabees, where Purgatory, and other points of Catholic Doctrine, which you peremptorily deny, are directly proved.  Ma. 
I cannot blame you for so high esteeming the Book of Macchabees. If that Lock be once cut off, your strength for the maintenance of Purgatory will soon fail. If that Cistern yield you no water, your tongue will cleave to the roof of your mouth, for want of that moisture, which now makes it so glibbe; your Prayer for the dead will be then soon put to silence, and enforced to beg Patronage from the Legends. Well I doubt not but you will be driven from that Hold before this combat be at an end. In the mean season you may do well to acquaint us with the gross, and inexcusable corruptions, wherewith you charge the Knight's Letter, as injurious to the most learned of the Ancient Fathers.  jab. 
His 
l Pag. 34.  Letter to prove that the Maccabees were Canonical in Saint Aug. judgement saith in this sort. It is not our surmise, that Saint Augustine seemeth to signify so much, who elsewhere, to wit, in the Book De Mirabilibus sacrae Scripturae doth plainly and determinately say, That they are not of the divine Canon.  Ma. 
Nay good Doctor, let us have fair play. Show me where he endeavours to prove that the Macchabees were Canonical? and we will be easily entreated to yield you the bucklers: he pleads and proves the contrary throughout his discourse. Besides it is no honest dealing to insert a Parenthesis into your adversaries text. These words (to wit in the Book De mirabilibus sacrae Scripturae) bear the counterfeit stamp of your own will. The Knight saith only, that Saint Aug. elsewhere excludeth them from the Divine Canon; for proof whereof he doth in the same page cite his words Contra Gaudent. and for the better passage hereof, he premiseth a testimony out of the book De Mirabilibus, written Anno Domini 627. which he margins with Saint Augustine's name, as being to be found only amongst his tomes.  jab. 

m Ouerth. pag. 134.  Was not Sir Edward (think you) here bobbed by the Bachelor or some Lecturer? He 
n Ouerth. pag. 133.  citeth the Book de Mirabilibus by their directions as Saint Augustine's, which all learned men with one consent discard from the number, as a Book of no account. Can 
o Ouerth. pag. 134.  any stain to his Knighthood be greater, then to be thought so notorious a Falsifier of so great and learned a Father, even in print?  Min. 
Is this so inexpiable an error, that no satisfaction may redeem? I had thought his many reasons alleged in the Countersnarle would have given content to any judicious eye, but I perceive malice will hold the least advantage with tooth and nail.  jab. 
Did 
p Pag. 34.  he only note in the margin where that Book and sentence might be found, and not resolutely aver in his text, that it was plainly, and determinately his saying?  Min. 
I must be your Echo, He did only note in the margin. And you must know there is great difference, between a cursory marginal note, and a resolute textual assertion. It might have sufficed you, that that Book was very near a thousand year old long (as he tells you) before Luther was born; and of such esteem that it was annexed to his writings, who was then most eminent. So ancient a testimony could not but give a great Shake to the Macchabees.  jab. 
But 
q Pag. 34.  why did he cite it for Saint Augustine's, against his conscience and knowledge, as he since confesseth?  Min. 
You may as well ask Ludovicus Vivaldus why in the very text of his Tractate, De Veritate Contritionis. pag. 31. he citeth the same father for a saying taken out of the Book De duodecim Abusionum gradibus, saying, Haec Augustinus: whereas in the 42. page of the said Book he maketh this acknowledgement of the same work; Hic liber à quibusdam ascribitur Hugoni de Sancto Victore, Alij vero tribuunt Cypriano. You might have done well to have taken him to school, and taught him never to have cited that Book, without that tedious Appendix. So should Augustine have been well attended, with a man or two still waiting at his heels.  Ma. 
Verily the good man would have taken it ill at his hands who should have laid Ignorance or Fraud to his charge: To have taxed him with 
r Pag. 37.  Reservations, and Equivocations in his writings about matters of Religion, to deceive his less wary Readers, had been an irrecompensable wrong; Yet is he in the same predicament with the Knight. Every pen (especially in marginal directs) is not patiented at all times of such tedious circumlocutions. The quoting of the place where the sentence may be found, freeth the Author from the suspicion of fraudulent tricks. It was neither his Ignorance nor Fraud that he so quoted it, but a strong presumption of his adversaries skill, whom he deemed no stranger to the worst retainer to Saint Augustine's works.  Nick. 
I would gladly be informed how you would have had my master allege that place. Had the margin been blank, the coherence perhaps would have carried it as S. Augustine's speech, whereas now the Reader hath a reference to the place, here he may be informed, both of the Antiquity and credit of the Author, and so pass his censure as he shall find cause.  jab. 

s Pag. 31.  Had it been any discredit to have confessed those quotations were by some Minister suggested unto him? your valiant writer and Deane Doctor Morton, was he not driven die his adversaries to acknowledge that he had taken some corrupted testimonies of our Authors upon the credit of john Stock, and R. C?  Nick. 
See how modesty creeps upon Doctor Smooth-bootes. O how jealous he would seem to be of my master's credit, which he spareth not to overlay at his pleasure, with Cart-loades of kitchen-stuff scraped from the sluttish sides of his own greasy kettles!  Ma. 
How corrupt the testimonies of your own Authors are I will not take upon me to judge, but (as I have heard) R. Stock hath satisfied for himself, & these eyes have seen a sufficient discharge for the other in a late learned Encounter against Master Parsons; so that the Obiector hath little cause to glory, unless it be in his own shame. As for the Knight, howsoever you may think him beholding unto you 
t Pag. 31.  for devising in his defence such an honourable excuse, he needeth neither your device nor defence, that being no less prejudicial to the sincerity of his entendments, than this 
u In beneficio habendum non est, sub honoris specie contumeliam pati.  dishonourable to his personal endowments. Your acquaint devices (fittest for cracked causes) will I fear be too thin to fence your own head from a fatal blow.  Min. 
He shall not need to Father this quotation upon any Minister: what will you say Doctor jabal, if the Knight be able to produce this book so fathered upon S. Augustine, without your distinction of 
x Pag. 38.  Anonymi cuiusdam, even by your own disputants? I hope you will then confess, this Reservation was worth the concealing, to hit the nail home to the head at the last blow.  Nick. 
What jabal! who hath cast milk in your face? never change countenance for the matter.  jab. 

y Pag. 30.  All learned men by one consent discard it from that number as a book of no account. It is a most gross and inexcusable Corruption suggested by some notorious falsificator, trencher Schoolmaster, or Mercenary Lecturer, perchance even by Master Crashaw himself.  Min. 
Your aim then is this: whosoever allegeth the book De Mirabilibus under S. Augustine's name, is a Notorious etc. But being some two months since with Sir Edward upon occasion of a Kentish Library which was to be sold, he showed me the same book so cited, not only by 
z Confess. Augustin. l. 4. c. 10. Sect. 6.  Hierom Torrensis, to prove Enoch in vivis adhuc esse, et unemquemque recipere spiritum sanctum in baptismo; but also by your renowned 
a Confess. Petrikon. ca 80.  Hosius, to prove Esdram restituisse libros legis. Now Nick make you the conclusion.  Nick. 
Ergo jabals consorts must divide the Notorious falsifier between them: Ergo jabal might have spared a number of waste words: Ergo these Popinians have more skill of 
b Pag. 33.  trenchers then of Authors: Ergo the Church of Rome hath played many such false tricks: Ergo, it was either their 
c Pag. 36.  ignorance that indeed they thought that book was his; or their fraud which made them utter what they knew was false, to deceive the Reader: Ergo their Editions both ancient and Modern, do either not at all, or not so visibly, distinguish these supposititious works from those of the ancient Fathers, with Anonymi cuiusdam in every page, as our 
d Pag. 38.  Bible's do disjoin the Apocrypha from the Canonical Scriptures; Ergo, if jabal have the least grain of wit, or grace, he will give no more such swinge to his unruly and pettish pen.  Ma. 
Doctor jabal, unless you be partial, these inferences must needs be granted, they are your own upon the like supposition. 'tis fit every bird should have her own feathers. That which you dare not disallow in your own writers, must not so severely be prosecuted against ours. It pities me to see how you are plunged. The Knight is able to teach twenty such fabling disputants. I cannot but smile to think how artificially he hath trained you along to bewray your want of Wit, and surplusage of malice. Let this be a warning unto you, in your next work to be more considerate. For now the notorious falsehood (wherewith you have been so enraged) 
e Pag. 41.  cleaves so fast to your fingers, that unless you have somewhat else of greater moment to say, you must be feign to rub them rudely upon your own Coat.  jab. 
The 
f Ibid.  second place he brought out of S. Augustine against the book of Maccabees, was a sentence in his book against the Epistle to Gaudentius, against which my accusation was that his Minister had added the last sentence, containing the substance of the matter, unto Saint Augustine.  Ma. 
You should rather tell us how honest and modest an answer you received. This last clause (saith he) I wonder how it should pass my sight in the review: for perusing my first draft I find go written short in another letter, to distinguish my inference from Augustine's proof. It seemeth either my Manuaries haste, or the Printers misprision hath turned go into sed, as if the same had been continued, which former error made them omit (consequently) in the English reddition.  jab. 
That there was a short go in his first draft seems not very probable, for 
g Pag. 42.  what likeness is there between go and sed that his Manuary or printer should take the one for the other?  Min. 
Nay read it with Sed as it was printed; and than you shall hardly find common sense. Machabaeorum Scriptura recepta est ab ecclesia non inutiliter, si sobrie legatur, vel audiatur, maxim propter istos Martyres Macchabaeos, sed ob hanc causam in Canone morum non fidei censcriposset, This sed ob hanc causam doth not relish of a scholars pen, which should rather be, et ob hanc causam. So that you may well think the Knight was not so simple, in so gross a manner wittingly to make that sweet Father speak gibberish in a Dialect so unlike his own; you are a happy man whose lines do pass the Press without any scar.  Nick. 
I pray you what likeness is there between Sacer dotes and Scortatores? yet as I have heard my master say; in one Edition of the new Testament set out at Coleyn, in steed of these words. 
h 1. Cor. 6.9.  Neque Scortatores regnum dei possidebunt, he hath found it thus printed: Neque Sacerdotes regnum dei possidebunt. I hope you will not challenge the Printer for allusion to your old trade. I persuade myself it was his misprision, though some have thought he did it to cry quittance with his wives Confessor. I hope this was more than the change of one poor syllable, the tail of the g being the same with a Roman s: and a running o. not unprobably to be supposed to have lost the head of a d. through haste of a speedy pen. To put ut for at is no such capital crime.  Ma. 
You should rather demand of him, what likeness there is between 34. and 42. 169. and 168. 176. and 172. Such errors are so frequent in his book, that it must of necessity cause wrong quotations: yet in my conscience I do not think the Doctor was accessary to these, or the like 'scapes wherewith his lines do abound. 'tis like the Printer thought he had no great good match of your book: Had he not misdoubted the currant sale thereof, he would have had a more vigilant eye over the press: this his presage made him put 
i Pag. 63. N. 43 lin. 6.  give for deny. 
k Io. lin. 8.  Indelible for undeniable. 
l Pag. 92: N. 3.  Edition for Reddition. 
m Pag. 101. N. 13.  Devised for divided. 
n Pag. 52. N. 29  long for low. 
o Pag. 129. N. 6.  joined for moved. 
p Pag. 180. N. 27,  Burned for drowned, 
q Pa. 40. N. 15  was for (his old serviceable attendant) As. The surplusage, and defect of many other words gives us just cause to suspect either the Printers care, or the Author's skill: so that you may well wink at such small faults, as the escape of a Monosyllable or two.  jab. 
Why 
r Pag. 42.  should he make his Inference in Latin, writing in English? what English Author useth that idle manner of Writing but himself?  Min. 
As if a Scholar being in his own Element may not be easily carried away with a strong imagination that he is in the Schools, especially writing to a Scholar about Theological questions. This I have many times observed in the Knight, that it is yrksom unto him to write any thing Verbatim, which hath passed his pen before, neither doth he without urgent necessity render that authority in English, which he hath quoted in Latin. All wits have not the patience alike to endure the repetition of the same things, and such for the most part take that first, which first offereth itself and may be dispatched with fewest Characters taking up the least room.  Ma. 
Whether his Inference were in Latin or English, it is litigium de forma; I am sure he vouched S. Hieromes 
s In praef. lib. Sal  authority, that the Church read the book of Maccabees for the edification of the common people, but received them not amongst the Canonical Scriptures, for the authorizing of Ecclesiastical decrees: which was as much as the Knight intended by secluding them from the Canon of Faith.  jab. 
This is nothing to the purpose 
t Pag. 43.  to prove S. Augustine did reject them, who might be contrary to S. Hierome in this point, not being then defined by any general Council.  Ma. 
S. Hierome contrary to S. Augustine? Is not this goodly Rhetoric to draw the Ladies to build their faith upon the writings of the ancient Fathers? Is there any more than one truth? Either the book of Maccabees is Canonical, or not. You say S. Augustine auerrs it; we prove that S. Hierome, Lyra, Brito, Rabanus, Caietan, etc. deny it. Whom shall your Creatures believe? Will you suffer them to have such reeling and tottering Consciences?  jab. 

u Pag. 44.  Caietan, whom he citeth, jumps not altogether with your conceit, and though he did, his sayings are not oracles with us.  Min. 
This kind of disputing will neither get you a Mitre, nor a cardinals Hat. Set you so light by the headmen of your parish? Good Dctour let us know to whose verdict you will stand: dare you say to S. Augustine's? are all his sayings Oracles in your Church? Nay saith 
x In Act. Apost. cap. 1. p. 9 a.  Lorinus, Augustinus incertum putat an Iste Theophilus idem sit, cui Lucas evangelium et Acta nuncupaverit: Atqui res certa videtur. The Divines of 
y 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. De Trinit. l. 9 c. 2. in Marg.  Lovane lay Sophistry to his charge. So likewise writeth your jesuite 
z Comment. in johan. 6.53.  Maldonate, Augustini et Innocentij primi sententia fuit, quae sexcentoes fere annos viguit in ecclesia, Eucharistiam etiam infantibus necessariam esse, quae tandem ab ecclesia reiecta est. The opinion of Augustine and Innocentius the first, which was received in the Church well nigh six hundred years, was this: that the Eucharist was necessarily to be ministered unto Infants, which at length is rejected by the church. Negare non possumus, saith 
a In Thom. disp 154. cap. 2. & 3.  Vazquez, praedictam opinionem fuisse Augustini et Fulgentij, a qua non multum Gregorius Magnus abhorret, tamen meo judicio probabilior, eos nulla alia paena quam damni, id est privatione beatitudinis, puniri. Albeit we cannot deny that 
b Ser. 14. de verb. Apost. et l. 5. cont. julian. c. 8.  Aug. and Fulgentius did teach that Infants dying without Baptism did presently descend into the place of the damned, to be sensibly tormented in hell-fire, yet notwithstanding in my judgement it is more probable that they undergo no other punishment, than the loss and privation of beatitude. The like censure doth 
c Concor. evang. tom. 1. lib. 7. ca 8,  Barradius pass upon Euthymius. Hocloco (saith he) Euthymius non recte de Virgin sanctissima haec scripsit: Non credidit sicut Zacharias etc. Procul a Christiano pectore et auribus huiusmodi sint verba. Thus doth your Church sponge out the opinions of the ancient Fathers, upon whom you seem so steadfastly to rely.  Ma. 
Then it seems the matter is not great, what S. Augustine's opinion was touching the Legitimation of the Maccabees, seeing his words are no Oracles, even with the Doctors of the Romish Church; and the rather because the book (according to jabals' confession) was not then naturalised, by the consent of any Occumenicall Covacell.  Nick. 
This is a pretty slight: The Fathers are but as feathers when they do not stick to the Popelings. I trow Saint Hierome shall find more favour at your hands.  jab. 
Saint 
d Pag. 43.  Hierome may seem to speak acoording to the opinion of the Hebrews, as he useth to do, not in his own.  Ma. 
This shift is fetched beyond the circumference of all probable Appararance. He speaks in the 
e In Pref. l●b. Salomonis.  present (not in the preterperfect) tense of the Church then being: Legit ECCLESIA, sed eos inter Canonicas Scripturas non recipit. Yea by way of toleration he delivers his mind permissively thus, Legate Ecclesia ad edificationem plebis, (yet with this Limitation) non ad authoritatem dogmatum Ecclesiasticorum confirmandam. 
f De Civit. Dei lib. 18. cap. 38.  Yea S. Augustine himself confesseth that one and the same man may write some things historica diligentia, which (though proceeding from himself) may serve ad ubertatem cognitionis: and other things ex inspiratione divina, which must be received ad authoritatem religionis.  jab. 
Those 
g Pag. 43.  words come short of your sum, to prove your Protestant distinction of the Canon of Manners, and Canon of faith.  Ma. 
I grant Saint Hieromes sentence doth not deliver these words in so many explicit syllables, yet doth it necessarily imply as much in the implicit sense. The Church readeth them for the edification of the people, therefore they are in the Canon of Manners, and serve to the bettering of knowledge: The Church receiveth them not amongst the Canonical Scriptures, Therefore they are not in the Canon of faith, as tending to th'authority of Religion.  jab. 
Every book 
h Ibid.  that may be read for edification in the Church, may not be termed a rule of Manners. What is just with the rule of Manners, is certainly good; But actions aacording to these books we speak of, the Knight granteth may be wicked. For example, to kill himself, is a thing unlawful, yet it is conformable to those actions, that he saith are praised in the Macchabees: How then can they be the Canon and Rule of Manners?  Min. 
Besides the primary and Divine Canon of Manners, properly so called (I mean the Canonical Scripture) which is absolutely to be received, as wholly authentical, by and in itself, there is also a Subordinate Ecclesiastical rule, which by virtue of Concordance, is so far to be admitted for a rule, as it is consonant to the first. Thus the Macchabees from 
i So we call that awedge of Gold wherein there is some dross.  the best and greatest part, (which is certainly good) may derivatively receive the Denomination of the Canon of Manners, albeit some little portion thereof be not leveled and squared according to the first unerrable squire. This Deviation though it exclude not the reading of the rest, which may serve as a subsidiary promoter of edification, yet can it not but debar the whole from the Supremacy of 
k In Apocriphis etsi invenitur aliqua veritas tamen propter multa falsa nulla est Canonica authoritas. Aug. de Civit. Dei. lib. 15. cap. 23.  Canonical esteem.  Ma. 
Sir, It is your courtesy thus to explain yourself. Yet under correction you do not well to fly after the Doctor's Lure. It is sufficient for you that Saint 
l A Divo Hieronimo extra Canonicos libros supputantur, & inter apocrypha locantur, etc. Ad Hieronimi limam reducenda sunt tam verba Conciliorum quam Doctorum. Caietan. ad fin. comment. in l. hist. Vet. Test.  Hieromes undeniable testimony hath explained Saint Augustine's, Si Sobriè: by which, though the toleration of the Macchabees be permitted, yet the Canonization is utterly 
m Maximè propter istos Martyres Machabaeos.  disannulled. It belongeth to his task to prove them to be of the Divine Canon, which he shall more easily attempt, then accomplish, seeing Saint Augustine himself confesseth, that the Ancient jews (utriusque tabulae custodes) did not receive them, as they did the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms: So that it will be a point of no small difficulty (without some Nightghosts revelation) to show by what warrant or means the Church of Christ was after moved to adopt them.  jab. 
I could 
n Pag. 58.  join with Saint Augustine other Fathers, no less ancient than he, canonizing the same books, but his testimony may suffice alone, which bringeth with it the authority of the Church in his days.  Nick. 
Alas poor Doctor Brag, this is but a copy of your countenance: you will make but a mean living, by singing Solus cum Solo; I trow Master Vicar willbe able to vie fathers, as fast as you. Your mastership may perhaps find a Counter for the Post, but you dare not for your ears be in at the Pair.  Ma. 
Verily I think Clichtoveus was more than half a Prophet, he doth so visibly deschipher the guise of our Disputant, as if he were here present. 
o judocus Clictoveus in Epist. ad Franciscum Molinum.  Alij sunt (saith he) qui non nisi suo credunt consilio, & quod semel asseruerunt, volunt oraculo solidius ut haberi. Alij autem authoritatula una, aut unius scribentis dicto, ut equus capistro retinentur, & caeteros aspernaentur, qui ea de re aut dixerunt aut scripserunt.  Min. 
Sir, it is fair play to till this gamester on by reserving the best card till the last trick. The Ancient records of the Church shall be produced when they shall strike all dead; for the present, I think I shall sufficiently discharge my part, if I make good the Knight's argument out of S. Augustine's ground to ratify our conclusion.  Ma. 
Herein shall you not bestow your pains amiss.  Min. 
Then thus: 
p Counters. pa. 41  In Holy Canonical Scripture there is no Divine precept or permission to be found, that either to gain Immortality, or to escape any peril, we may 
q Placuit ut hi qui per ferrum aut praecipitium sibi ipsis mortem inferunt nulla pro illis in oblatione commemoratio fiat. Concil. Bracaren. 1. ca 34  make away with ourselves, But Razias (mentioned in the Macchabees) is commended for a fact of this kind: Ergo 
r His non adhibetur fides in quibus etiam contra fidem librorum Canonicorum quaedam leguntur. Aug. de Civit. Dei lib. 18. cap. 38  they are not Canonical.  jab. 
It was 
s Pag. 49.  far from Saint Augustine's gravity to read the Macchabees with so little Sobriety, as to think that Razias was praised for killing himself: 
t Pag. 51.  writing against the Circumcellians, he doth often teach, and largely prove, that Razias was not commendable for that fact, which the Scripture did report, not praise.  Min. 
I will not press you with tautologies, neither would I willingly bring Lyram ad Asinum, unless you were a better physician. Lyraes' record is extant, that 
u Lyra in 2. Mach. cap. 14  the Scripture of that Book which is received by the Church to be read for the Information of Manners, doth not seem to reprove Razias, but rather to commend him, for killing himself, etc.  jab. 
This is 
x Pag. 51.  false, and against the mind of Saint Augustine who denies it expressly, 
y Pag. 49  neither is Lyraes' Doctrine to the purpose.  Min. 
If you grant that Saint Augustine was one of the principal Doctors of the Church, then listen a while to Ludovicus Vivaldus 
z De veritate contritiovis. fol. 52.  De Razia (saith he) nobilissimo milite legimus in 2. lib. Mach, etc. quòd scipsum 
a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  animose ac magnifice in mortem dederit, cuius mors commendatur, ac landibus extollitur A DOCTORIBUS CATHOLICIS, eo quod ob reverentiam Dei, atque ob salutem boni publici consummata fuerit. We read of Razias, etc. Whose death is commended, and highly extolled by the CATHOLIQVE DOCTORS.  Ma. 
Was this the opinion of Catholic Doctors in Vivaldus his age? then it seems Saint Augustine was either not well understood, or not reputed in that rank, or that those Doctors have since changed their minds: Howsoever the Minor, viz. that Razias is commended for that fact, hath the warrant of the Catholic Doctors, as also of Ludovicus and Lyra, maugre the spurning of your Wild Ass' 
b Pag. 62  Colt: Therefore the conclusion, that the Macchabees are not Canonical, must by virtue of Augustine's ground be returned with the 
c Pag. 46.  Goose and Woodcock unto your own keeping.  Nick. 
Saint 
d Ibid.  Augustine's Eagle hath already picked out their eyes, and put them to flight; they begin to droop and hang the wings, so that they will have little maw to show their heads any more on this Coast.  jab. 
Is 
e Pag. 58  it not credible that some fathers who deny these books were ignorant of the Churches warrant rather than Saint Aug. so rash and presumptuous as to canonize them without it.  Ma. 
Lord what shift the Doctor makes to get lose! his struggling makes me remember the complaint of an 
f Laurent. Valla de volup. l. 1.  elegant writer which may well beseem Master Rachils' ears: Quid facias pravis ingenijs quae tergiuer santur, & manifestis rationibus repugnant, nec se à veritate capi sinunt?  Min. 
Nay on my word he gins to deal more plainly, than I expected. For whereas before he did set Saint Hierome and Sant Augustine at odds, making no more account of Caietans' pearls then ordinary pebbles, it is to be attributed to the choleric fit, wherewith he was overtaken: But now upon better and more mature deliberation he speaks by the book, and tells us that some Fathers deny these books. Yet herein he is not well advised, in that to free S Augustine from rashness and presumption, he sticks not to charge the rest with ignorance.  Ma. 
In very deed Doctor, you are an ungracious child, not worthy of your Mother's blessing. Will you make the Fathers of your Church ignorant in the warrant of your Church? Shall they be admitted to teach others in doubtful controversies of faith, who are themselves to seek in the Canon of hagiographical Scripture, which is the ground of faith? I cannot think, that if the four first general Counsels had received these books into the Canon, they would have been either so ignorant, or so rash and presumptuous, as to have disallowed them.  jab. 
Why 
g Pag. 50.  should not the Books of Maccabees be sacred, though they praise Razias for this fact, as well as the Book of judges, where Samson is praised, who did the like? If this be Saint Augustine's sentence which the Knight cities out 
h Ibid.  of Lyra, that he did that fact by special instinct of the Holy Ghost, who doth not see that your argument to prove the Maccabees not to be Scripture, is not worth a rush?  Min. 
Whether Saint Augustine were of this mind or no, the Knight referred it to Lyraes' report, who there relates (as he 
i Counters. p. 45  saith) either the very words, or the received sense. The Knight doth not peremptorily take upon him to justify the words to have proceeded from Augustine's pen: he only presumed so far upon the Readers patience, as to write out what Lyra there wrote (without any distinction of Character) touching the general opinion of the commendation of Razias his fact: wherein as Lyra 
k Lyra in 2. Mach. cap. 14  speaks, some thought Saint Augustine did bear a part.  Nick. 
Whether it were Augustine's assertion, or Lyraes' relation, it was sufficient to prove the Minor, viz. That Razias his murder was there praised. But how will you answer the like of Samson, which jabal bringeth out of the Book of judges? this may seem to infer a secret addition to Augustine his ground. Where he saith No Canonical Book doth commend or praise killing once self, jabal by way of supposition annexeth this clause, viz. without special instinct of the Holy Ghost.  Ma. 
Master Vicar you think Beggars have no Lice. Who would have looked for this from the Groom? It is fit you should stop this gap.  Min. 
Had Razias killed himself by that special instinct, then would not Saint Augustine have ventured to censure this fact as worthy reproof: but (as you say) he proves against the Circumcellians, that Razias was 
l Pag. 51.  not commendable for that fact, which the Scripture did report, not praise. Besides, the text ascribes it to his own choice, saying, Eligens potius nobiliter mori: that he chose rather to die 
m 2. Mach cap. 14. verse 42.  nobly. Thomas Aquinas also frees the spirit from that motion in this verdict. Quidam (saith he) seipsos 
n second 2 Quaest. 64. art. 5. ad Quint.  interfecerunt, aestimantes se fortiter agere, de quorum numero Razias fuit: non tamen est vera fortitudo, sed magis quaedam mollities animi. Thus doth he brand it as an aberration from true fortitude, which defect is not incident to that spirit, which leads into all truth.  Ma. 
You may spare your pains for any further proof, the Doctor I think is of your mind in this. It pleased him by occasion of that report which the Knight laid upon Lyraes' pen, touching some men's construction of Augustine's sense, and Razias his fact, to play the Questionist, and to make a doubt of that, wherein it seems by his silence he holds himself now satisfied.  Nick. 
Then cannot the Book of Maccabees be sacred, which both by evidence of the text, and th' assent of the Catholic Doctors, doth praise Razias for that, which true fortitude doth disclaim, and Canonical Scripture disallow.  jab. 
Truly Saint Augustine 
o Pag. 52.  doth so often clearly and peremptorily avouch the Charter of the Maccabees, which confirmeth Purgatory, to be sacred, that I wonder any man that hath read his works, will undertake to prove the contrary. When he makes the Catalogue of Canonical Books, doth not he rank these with the rest? Did he not subscribe to the Council of Carthage where those Books were canonised?  Ma. 
This is that which the Knight did wisely foresee and cautelously labour to prevent. He feared lest his adversary might be over-swayed by mistaking of the word Canonical, which is sometimes taken largely, to signify aswell the Books that might concern the Rule of Manners, as those which serve for the foundation of the doctrine of Faith, in which sense your Father and Council are to be understood: whereas the same word in the strict and proper signification, doth only comprehend the Books, which agree with the Canon of the Hebrews, according to the general consent of the Ancient Fathers of all Churches, before the days of Saint Augustine. To this end, he sent no worse 
p Letter to T.H. pag. 62.  Messenger to clear this doubt; then a person, eminent, both by name and place; I mean that famous Cardinal Cajetan. Ne turberis Novitie (saith he) Si alicubi reperias libros istos inter Canonicos supputari. Cum hac distinctione poteris discernere dicta Augustini, & scripta in Concilio Provinciali Carthaginensi. He tells you that they are thus to be understood, as also that none but Novices in the writing of the Ancient Fathers will trouble themselves, by making any question in so apparent a truth.  Nick. 
jabal hath well requited him for his pains: I trow he hath sent the Cardinal away with a flea in his ear. If Caietan had been Pope, he would have been twice advised, before he had so rudely rejected his Oracles. My fellow jack Footman would have no great Maw, to carry a Message to such a currish Swain, from whom he expects no better entertainment.  Min. 
Caietan I wis, had more wit in his little finger, than jabal in his whole body, Beati Pacifici was his aim. Should such hot-spurres as our Novice have been made Arbitrators, there would have been such a broil amongst the Fathers as would not be easily reconciled. For if you take away this favourable & most probable distinction, you should soon see a field pitched between 
q Vide Admon. praefix. Concord. Bibliorum per haered. Wecheli.  Cyril, Cyprian, Origen, 
r Si quid extra haec invenitur, inter adulterinos libros numerandum est. Greg. Nazian.  Nazian zene, 
s Anthonin. Summ. maior. Par●. 3. tit. 18. cap. 6. § 2.  Hierome, 
t Alij libri sunt qui non Canonici sed Ecclesiastici a maioribus appellati sunt: eiusdem ordinis Tobiae, judith et Machabaeorum libri. Ruffi. in Symbol. fol. 575.  Ruffinus, Epiphanius, 
u Sunt Canonici veteris testamenti libri viginti duo l●teris baebraicis numero par●s. A●ban. ex Synopsi.  Athanasius, Eusebius, and Gregory, on th'one side discarding them: and Augustine, the Council of Carthage, & Trent, on th'other part defending them. When this pitched battle should have been fought, the Romanists might have sought our valiant Sanga under the Trundle-bedde, till the hurly burly had been at at end: unless they had plucked him out by the heels, no persuasion would have drawn him to show his face; they are all so peremptory and plain, against the Canonizing of these Apogriphall books. This was not unknown to the Cardinal: who was thereby induced to think that S. Augustine took the word Canonical in the larger sense, as comprehending the Ecclesiastical writings, within the verge thereof.  Ma. 
Had it been an error an the jews not to have received these books, as they did the Law, and the Prophets; I cannot think, but that Christ or his Apostles would surely have reproved so notable a crime, seeing they were not meale-mouthed in the reprehension of lesser faults. And whereas we receive this main benefit by the Apostasy of the jews, that thereby the world (seeing them enemies unto the Messiah) cannot but give the greater credence to the books of th'old Testament, without suspect of partiality, which otherwise might have been doubted: the adopting of these other Apocryphal into the Canon, were as much as in us lieth to vilify th'authority of their authentic records, who may not improbably be thought to have taken in those that were adulterine, as well as to have degraded those that are found to have been divine.  Min. 
If all other reasons were mute, me thinks the Author, Matter, and Manner of the history, might well make an ingenuous person very sparing in the defence. The Author, if we may credit the 
x Vide Zanch. de divin. attrib. lib. 4. ca 4.  enlarging Epitomiser of these books, is 
y 2. Mac. 2.23.  jason Cirenaeus a 
z Spiritu sancto inspirati locuti sunt sancti Dei homines. 2. Pet. cap. 1. v. 21.  heathen man (forsooth) a fit Secretary for the Court of heaven. It seems penmen were then as scanty, (as sometimes 
a 1. Sam. c. 13. v. 19  smith's) in Palestine. This must needs be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which requireth so much 
b 2. Mac. 2. v. 26.  watching, sweeting, and pains in the refining. Calamus Scribae velociter scribentis, would have eased all this toil, which is not to be feared, where the Omniscient spirit is the Dictator. As touching the matter, it is woven in a web of such palpable contradictions, that a man who regardeth his credit would be sorry at his heart, to be taken tripping in such contrary tales. One while 
c 1. Mach. c. 6. v. 16.  Antiochus died for grief in Babylon. Another while he was slain in the Temple of 
d 2. Mac. c. 1. v. 13.  Nanea, where his head was cut off. And yet is not Antiochus out of his pain; As if he had as many lives as a Cat, you shall see him stalk once more upon this historical Stage; and then at last fall down and die, with a most noisome stinking smell, consumed with 
e 
2. Mach. c. 9 v. 9  
Ducit ad inferos & ● educit.   worms. Indeed I must needs say he is very modest in the delivery: He writes not 
f Math. 7. v. 29.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as one who had the custody of the mint, to warrant the mettle whereunto he had put his stamp, but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, for the 
g 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  pleasure, and recreation of the reader. Had he had the warrant of the spirit, he would have spared the labour of begging favour, and suing out a pardon, for which he is feign to crouch to the Readers gentleness.  Ma. 
Then had the holy Father S. Augustin good cause to say, that they are received profitably if they be read Soberly. For if they should be read with a precipitate opinion as Canonical Scriptures in the strict sense: the many leaks which are transparent in them, would go very near to sink th'authority of the rest.  jab. 
It appeareth by that testimony against the Epistle of Gaudentius, that the Christians gave that authority to those 
h Pag. 55.  books, which the jews did not grant unto them: that the Church did set them up in the throne, from which the Synagogue had kept them; which was the Imperial throne of sacred Authority. Otherwise S. Augustins opposition, The jews did not, but The Church doth, were vain.  Ma. 
The opposition (if any) stands not in the degree, but rather beareth the sense of a prevention. For as much as the jews, from whom the old sacred records were originally derived, would not enter them into the Divine Canon, it could not but occasion many considerate Christians utterly to cashier them. For the avoiding hereof S. Augustine, seeing they might tend to some good use, tells us that albeit the jews did not receive them as Canonical, yet the Church received them not unprofitably, if they be read soberly. He saith not, that the Church received them into higher authority than the jews: but as books which might serve to as good purpose, if they were read warily amongst us, as they did among the jews. Neither doth he say Recipienda est Scriptura Machabeorum, as implying an undeniable necessity; but recepta est non mutiliter, as noting a voluntary acceptance upon a probable end, with th'addition of this Proviso, if they be read soberly: which, howsoever you otherwise deem, cannot be fitly spoken of Canonical writ, which is necessarily to be embraced, and is always profitable to the Church, which evermore bringeth Sobriety to the reading thereof: neither is it any less behoveful to the Church, though it be perverted by reprobates to their own damnation. But as for human writings, the case is otherwise: they are then only received profitably by the Church, when they are read warily. A good man by attributing too much to an unwarrantable ground (of which sort the sacred writ affordeth none) may make a faulty inference: which moved Saint Augustine to insinuate, that there are rocks by which he would have us warily to sail.  Nick. 
What if we admit (for disputation sake) that S. Augustine delivereth this, as his resolute opinion in jabals' sense? I would gladly learn what reason he can yield, why this should oversway the joint judgement, and consent, of so many far more ancient Fathers, who teach the contrary.  jab. 

i Pag. 59  Caluin doth allow him the style of the best and most faithful witness of Antiquity: how can he then be excused from great temerity, if herein he erred?  Ma. 
Errare humanum est: The spirit of God alone is free from error. The 
k It was lawful to contradict the Fathers and doubt of them. Guido de Haeres. c. 7.  Church even in his days was somewhat clouded with the mists of superstition. Had he not an eagle's eye, he could hardly have discovered those beams, which Antichrist had then laid in the way: It was hard, if not impossible, for one man to discern every mote, which then hovered in the air of the Papal regiment.  jab. 

l Pag. 60.  This sentence may suffice alone, to give any judicious ear to understand your opposition with S. Augustine.  Ma. 
We honour his memory as a blessed Saint, from whose pen the Church of God hath received ineffable good, and we account it not the least part of our happiness, that for one seeming testimony, which you wrist to serve your own turn, we are able to show a million to right our cause.  jab. 
Can you deny that S. Augustine taught our Catholic doctrine concerning the point of Merit? 
m Pag. 62.  Doth he not say, that as the wages due to sin is death: so the wages due to righteousness is life eternal? And again, The reward cannot go before merits, nor be given before a man be worthy thereof: yea that God should be unjust, if he that is truly just be not admitted into his kingdom, Can any Catholic speak more plainly than he doth of Merits?  Min. 
These places do not any whit cross our doctrine against merit: The Analogy which he makes between Sin and Death, Righteousness and life, consisteth not in the quality of Desert, but of the 
n Dost gratiae qui● quid meritis deputas: Nolo meritum quod gratiam excludit. B●●n. super. Caen. Ser. 67.  effect: Augustine saith not that the wages of righteousness, which is Heaven, is as due as the wages of sin, which is death: th' Analogy is in regard of the consequent effect, to signify, that heaven, the wages which is due to righteousness, shall as truly be bestowed upon the faithful, as Hell or Death, shall be inflicted upon the wicked. For if we consider th'equality of desert, and condignity; there is according to the doctrine of S. Augustine, a threefold disproportion. One in respect of the Rewarder, whose rewarding of sin with eternal torment is the proper act of justice in itself: Whereas his rewarding of Righteousness, upon them whom he hath accepted unto Grace, is only the justice of his merciful 
o In illis opera saa glorificant: In ●●les opera non sua condemnant Fulgen. ad Mon. lib. 1.  promise. Secondly in respect of the Subject: for the Sin which a wicked man committeth is properly his own, but the righteousness of the Regenerate is the gift 
p Opera bona habemus non ex nobis nata, sed à Deo donata. Fulg. ibidem.  of God: so that the reward of death is more properly due to sin, then is the reward of life unto righteousness: Thirdly in regard of the object: because the sin of the wicked is perfectly imperfect, but the righteousness of the most godly is imperfectly perfect, that is but a stained goodness, wherefore there cannot be an equal condignity in both.  Ma. 
We grant that the reward cannot go before merits, nor be given before a man be worthy thereof: but jabal must learn that these merits are 
q Mors eius meritum meum. Aug. in Manual. c. 22.  Christ's, by the Imputation whereof, we that are altogether unworthy of ourselves, are made through God's gracious acceptance of his sons obedience, worthy of this reward. Otherwise Non sunt condignae passiones, our greatest sufferings are not worthy of the least degree of glory which shall be revealed to the sons of God. 
r Ephes. 2. v. 8.  Gratia enim saluatis estis, saith the Apostle: For you are saved by Grace through Faith, and that not of yourselves.  Min. 
Fulgentius makes the case plain in this golden sentence 
s De praedest. 〈◊〉 Mont●tum. lib. 1  unus Deus est qui gratis et vocat praedestinatos, et justificat vocatos, et glorificat iustificatos: and again, 
t Ibid.  Sicut gratiae ipsius opus est cum facit justos, sic gratiae ipsius erit cum faciet gloriosoes 
u Aug. in. Psal. 83.  Debitorem se ipse Dominus fecit, saith S. Augustine, non accipiendo, sed promittendo: non ei dicitur, Red quod accepisli, sed quod promisisti. God hath made himself a Debtor, not by receiving any thing from us, but by the passing of his promise unto us: we say not to him, Render that thou hast received, but give that which thou hast promised. And the same 
x Tract. 3. in johan.  Father, Non pro merito acciptes vitam aeternam, sed pro gratia. Thou shalt not receive life eternal for merit, but for grace.  Nick. 
How think you now of S. Augustine's opinion touching merit? were you not utterly devoid of all shame, you would never have cited him in this cause, wherein you find him wholly averse. You were better scan my Master's Letter, and let S. Augustine alone.  jab. 
How 
y Pag. 61.  much reason I had to term his Letter unlearned, you may judge, by his laying together on an heap the points of Catholic Doctrine, which he mislikes. Whereof he thinks Purgatory to be the groundwork. Is it not a learned enumeration, to make Merits, Masses, Vigils, Superaltaries, Noone-day-Lampes, Grains, Holy-water, Oil, Salt, Spittle, etc. to have not only mutual reference, but fundamental dependence on Purgatory? What hath Salt, Oil, Spittle, to do with Purgatory? Though Purgatory should be overthrown, I see not why the former things, as also Merits, Christening, and Burial Tapers, might not remain, and be used as they are.  Nick. 
The deeper the foundation, the surer the building. My Master could lay their foundation no lower than Purgatory, unless he should have set the corner stones in hell.  Ma. 
The Knight saw how jeiunely his Adversary pleaded for Purgatory, wherefore to induce him the better to ransack his utmost endeavours, he thought fit some what hyperbolically to exaggerate the necessity of that defence, upon the solidity whereof so many other points had their whole dependence.  Min. 
Sir I perceive you will stand to your friend at a pinch. But in this case the Knight needs not your help. I hope the Doctor will be judged by Eckbertus, who stands as stiff for Purgatory, and knew all the Creeks of that Channel, as well as the best Sculler that belongs to that River. He writing against the Cathari speaks thus; 
z Eckbertus' adverse. Catarrh. Serm. 1.  Non recipiunt (saith he) esse purgatorias poenas, etc. Propterea ergo arbitrantur supersluum et vanum esse orare pro mortuis, Eleemosynas dare, Missas celebrare, & irrident pulsationes campanarum. They do not hold that there are Purgatory pains: Therefore they think it vain and superfluous, to pray for the dead, to give Alms, to celebrate Masses, and they deride the tolling, or chiming of Bels. Who would think that the tolling of a Bell had any dependence upon Purgatory? Yet doth your own Author infer the derision of them, as a Consequent upon the refusal of the other, with a propterea ergo, which is more than a single Illative, Implying that if they had had any respect of Purgatory, they would not have made so light of Dirges and Bells.  Ma. 
It is an old Maxim, vitia, 
a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Macarius. Hom. 40  esse concathenata. Errors and vices are linked together, like Sampsons' Foxes, by one end or other. If you take away Purgatory, the charge and pains which many superstitious persons are at, about Indulgencies, Pilgrimages, Crosse-creeping, Oblations, Satisfactions, Lamps, Grains, Pictures, Holy water, Oil, and other (which they call holy) uses, for the easement of th'afflicted souls of their deceased friends, would either in toto or in tanto be abated. Besides I do not think the Doctor can show me any mention of this Riff Raffe trash (according to the Romish ridiculous practice) till such time as Purgatory was set on foot.  jab. 
What say you to the Macchabees, and the whole Church of God in those days that did practise prayers for souls in Purgatory?  Ma. 
I had thought Master Vicar had put you out of hope of all succour from the Maccabees. Will you never leave begging the question? I would you would take the pains to read Macarius his 22. Homily 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, there should you find the opinion of the Church in diebus illis. When the Soul (saith he) steeteth out of the body, if it be guilty of sin, the Devils come, and the powers of darkness take it away: But as for the Saints and children of God, when their souls departed, the Choir of Angels are ready to receive them, and bring them unto the Lord. So that the prayer for the dead which you urge, did not presuppose Purgatory, as being rather a Commemoration and thanksgiving for the Saints departed, which we do not deny.  Nick. 
Perhaps jabal means that Church, I mean that Ship which is steered by the supposed 
b Papae stereus aurum putant Arabicum.  successor of Peter.  Min. 
If that be all, Prayer for the dead will not hold out, unless the 
c Quod adimitur principali adimitur accessorio.  Pope can be proved greater than Peter. What Peter's charter was, we find in Bishop 
d Longland in Ps. 101. p. 569. B.  longland's records upon those words, Tu es Petrus & super hanc petram, etc. upon which he comments thus. Notanter dixit super hanc petram, non super hunc Petrum, id est, non super unum privatum hominem, sed super hanc petram, hoc est, super stabilem huius fidei firmitatem, quam tu iam confessus es, & super fundamentum neutiquam vacillans; vel aliter, super eam petram, quam iamiudum confessus est Petrus, nimirum super ipsum Christum. So that a Pope's Decree may be fundamentum vacillans, and implies not the laudable practice of the Church.  Nick. 
Now is the Doctor almost besides the saddle. He hath lost one of his Stirrups: the authority of the Maccabees, and the head of his Church have received a foul foil. Well Doctor, if this been the first of your five Victories, then hath your Purgatories jacke a Lent lost one of his best legs, and now stands upon four lame feet. It shall cost me the best point at my hose, but I will have one flirt at his jacket, and turn him on his back.   

CHAP. III. Purgatories Deduction Logically and Theologically disproved.  
MAster Vicar, let me crave one word in your ear. Me thinks Doctor Triumph stands now like the Emblem of Suretyship, with his head out of the little end of the home. He had an easy entrance into this argument: but being disappointed of his hold on the Maccabees, he sticks by the shoulders, and cannot get out; you may do well to lend him your hand, or else this Parley will be all dashed.  Min. 
Sir, seeing you have taken upon you Purgatories quarrel, and the Motists defence, we would gladly hear what you have to say against the Knight's answer, touching the deduction of Purgatory from the words of Christ, Mat. 12.32. upon which your fellow Romanists do especially rely.  jab. 
Christ in that 
a Pag. 65.  place saith of sin against the Holy Ghost, that it shall be forgiven neither in this world, nor in the world to come, whence Catholics infer that some sins may be pardoned in the next World. For this text containeth both a distinction of two sorts of sins, some remissible, others irremissible; and of two places where remission may be had, namely, in this present world, and the world to come; signifying that some sins may be remitted in the one place, some in the other, but Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost in neither. Whence followeth, seeing the next world is the time of justice, that God doth not there remit sins, without exacting and inflicting the due punishment unto the Authors, which is the Purgatory the Catholic Church doth, and hath ever taught. This exposition no sooner soundeth in his ear, but his tongue waggeth in this sort. I protest I thought as much, you have turned up Noddy.  Ma. 
Doubtless you read the Knight's book with a perspective glass, otherwise the Noddy which was six pages distant from the first proposal of this argument, would not have sat so close upon your brow. First, to she the vanity of this Inference, he tells you that Saint Mark handling the same theme renders Saint Matthewes disjunctive in this plain Collective, that who so blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost, shall never have forgiveness, as being culpable of eternal damnation: secondly, to prove that this was (no simple but) an approved gloss in those days, he allegeth Athanasius, Hierome, Hilary, and Ambrose, who made no other construction of those words, then that this Sin should be never forgiven: Thirdly, by way of Concession he giveth allowance (in part) to your Inference, that some sins may be said to be pardoned in the world to come, viz. per Remissionis promulgationem, And so concludes 
b Letter to T.H. pag. 32.  that the Sin against the Holy Ghost is here exaggerated by opposition to other Sins, in the deprivation of that double benefit whereof other Sinners penitent are capable. Now because he saw his Adversary did put the words on the Rack, making them speak that which was far from the scope of the place, viz. that some sins remissible are pardoned in the world to come, which were not formerly forgiven in this world, he tells him indeed that in adding this last clause, he had turned up Noddy; which gaming Metaphor was not unfitly applied to so trifling a disputant.  jab. 

c Pag. 65  He discourseth more like a Carpet Knight, than a sober Divine, showing more skill at Cards, then of Scriptures.  Ma. 
Indeed he hath taught you a New Cut, viz. to deal more mercifully with the Scriptures, and more charitably with the Souls of your poor brethren. If either the rules of Logic, or the verdict of Ancients be of any account, he hath turned this your deduction many specks out. And for aught I see, the more you draw, the further you are gone.  Min. 
How absurd the Inference is, it will easily appear by the scope of the text, and the sense of the words. Our Saviour there speaketh de reatu peccati, of the guilt of Sin, saying, (non remittetur) and doth not specify any pain to be suffered for such sins, whose fault is forgiven in this present life. Had he said, He that sinneth against the Holy Ghost shall not be unpunished in this world, nor in the world to come, the Inference had not been amiss: Ergo some sins are punished in the world to come, which are not punished in this world. But when he saith, it shall be forgiven neither in this World nor in the World to come, it is a mere fallacy, to draw the speech from the guilt to the punishment, inferring that some sins shall be punished in the next world, whose offence is forgiven in this. The remission (from which that Superlative Sinner is debarred) is an act of mercy, wherein man is considered as a Patient, and therefore cannot be suitable to that time, and act of justice, whereof the Doctor dreameth▪ neither can a sin be said properly to be remitted, the due punishment whereof th'offender hath condignly sustained. He that pays the utmost farthing, is very little beholding for the forgiveness of his debt. But if you will needs uncase this sentence of the figure wherewith it is beautified, I demand whether doth our Saviour speak of the guilt or of the punishment, or of both. If he say the guilt shall not be forgiven in this world, nor in the world to come, than your deduction must be this, Ergo the guilt of some mortal sins shall be remitted in the next world, which is not remitted in this; and so your Purgatory (presupposing a former assoylement from the guilt) will have no subsistence. If he speak of the punishment, you must infer, Ergo some sins shall be punished in the next world, which are not punished in this: which as all men confess, so doth it afford no advantage to your cause. If you say that he speaks of both Gild and Punishment, then as well the Gild as the Punishment of some mortal sins shallbe then remitted, which your 
d Pag. 79  Suarez doth disclaim. So that you are very nimble thus to fetch a cross caper making the Lord of truth to speak of Gild in the former, and of Punishment in the latter part, to serve your turn.  Nick. 
I would be loath to fast till jabal get out of this Maze; should I stay for a solution, the pi●d Nag I fear would not come at james Park this grass. But you were in hand to speak something concerning the sense of the words.  Min. 
Well remembered, I was about to show the Doctor his error in making the World to come (which signifieth 
e Mar●. 1●. ●●.  the last day) to note that middle space of time, which is now in present being, As long as time lasteth, this present world continueth: the world to come, cometh not till the date of time be clean extinct, and then their own confession (making a full jail delivery) casheireth Purgatory, as of no longer use. Had our Saviour said, It shall be forgiven neither in this life, nor in the life to come, there had been some better colour for this Inference, but by mentioning the world to come, (which being opposed to this present world, hath relation to the day of judgement, when no remission is to be expected) he implieth a necessary Nullity of any future forgiveness after this life.  Nick. 
Under correction, I think a man might as well reason thus: If the time present be in respect of those that are deceased to be termed the World to come; then much more may that Eternity be so called, which followeth the day of the Lords last advent. And so by virtue of this place taken properly in jabals' sense, some sins may then also be forgiven, which were not formerly remitted: by which kind of pleading, a man might easily merit Origens' fee. Besides should it be granted that some sins are remitted in jabals' world, yet is there no necessary consequence of the Satisfactory fire of Purgatory.  jab. 
You cannot deny but this our Inference and exposition of the former place is taught by 
f Pag. 66.  five or six Ancient and Holy Doctors, which the 
g T. H.  Motist citeth. Will your wisdom term them Noddies? Shall Saint Bernard, Venerable Bede, Saint Isidore be put in the number of Noddies? If you be an English Christian you cannot deny Saint Gregory to be your Father. Hear what he saith. We must believe that for some light faults there is a purgatory fire before the day of judgement, because the truth doth say, If any shall utter Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven in this World, nor in the world to come. In which saying we are given to understand that some sins may be forgiven in this world, and some in the next, for what is denied of one, it is clear that consequently it is granted of the other. Thus didst thou write (blessed Saint) a thousand years ago, even when thy heart was fullest of comfort, for the conversion of our Country. It would not a little have allayed thy joy hadst thou foreseen that  Ma. 
Such idle Rhetoricians, such seditious jesuits, such superstitious Priests, such pompous successors, such traitorous and bloody Popinians should have corrupted that faith, and made that Sea so infamous amongst the most remote nations, which both by heart and hand thou tookest so great pains to promote. This would have allayed his joy indeed.  Min. 
As for your five or six ancient Doctors, you shall have your answer both in weight and tale. In the mean while for this of Gregory (if it be his own) it may more than evidently appear unto your second survey of these his Dialogues; that he was by certain idle apparitions and fantastical Ghosts some what too easily induced (if not seduced) to favour and further this opinion. Yet if you will be pleased to let Gregory answer Gregory, listen what he 
h Greg in 7. c. job. lib. 8. c. 8.  elsewhere speaketh. Cum humani casus tempore sive sanctus, sive malignus spiritus, egredientem animum claustra carnis acceperit, in aeternum secum sine ulla permutatione retinebit, ut nec exaltata ad supplicium proruat, nec mer sa aeternis supplicijs ultra ad remedium ereptionis ascendat. To the same purpose is Gregory alleged by 
i Nilus' lib. de Purg.  Nilus, averring that the time after this life is for punition, not for purgation. In hac vita tantùm, saith S. 
k Serm. 66.  Augustine, poenitentiae patet libertas, post mortem nulla correction is licentia. Hoc tempus est poenitentiae, illud judicij, saith S. 
l In Serm de Euch. in Eucaen.  Chrysostome: hoc agonum, illud coronarum, hoc laboris, illud relaxationis. The same father 
m Hom de Lazar.  further tells us, Dum hic fuerimus, spes habemus praeclaras, simulac vero discesserimus non est postea in nobis situm poenitere, neque commissa diluere. Here we have hope, but when we are once deceased, it is neither in our power to repent, nor to make satisfaction for those things which we have done.  jab. 
What think you of that Father whom the Knight named a 
n Pag. 67.  marble pillar, that ever-admired Augustine? Thus he writeth upon our place of Scripture. It could not be truly said of some men, that their sins should not be forgiven in this world, nor in the world to come, unless there should be some men, who though they are not pardoned in this world, yet they should be pardoned in the world to come.  Ma. 
This the Knight removed with a writ under the hand of Vives, who averreth that these words are wanting in some ancient copies. So that just suspicion may not improbably deem them to have been inserted by a second hand.  jab. 
Yet 
o Pag. 68.69.  Vives addeth, Tamen stilus non abhorret ab Augustiniano: The style dissenteth not from S. Augustine's. Yea further he saith, that either in other copies of Saint Augustine the former words are found, or taken from some other work of this Father they were here inserted.  Ma. 
He is a very simple Impostor that cannot jump with S. Augustine's style for a sentence or two. But is not here old handy pandy, when sentences shall be tossed from one place to another, without the Author's advise? This inserting of sentences in wrong places, raiseth a different sense, and puts all out of joint. So that the Knight was not ill advised to say, that it were ill with the Church if her saith were pinned 
p Let. to T.H. pag. 7●.  on S. Augustine's sleeve: not that he misdoubted that holy father's sincerity, but because he was too well acquainted with these joiners interlacing subtlety. And have we not then great reason to stand to the sole trial of the Scriptures? or is it possible these brabbles should have an end, as long as such authorities are urged, which are elsewhere contradicted by th' authors themselves?  Min. 
If we grant that this authority hath the right stamp of S. Augustine's pen, yet will it not afford fuel for the kindling (much less the maintaining) of Purgatory fire. He tells us, (as you have often heard) that the Catholic faith knew but 
q Aug. in lib. 5. ●ypognost.  two receptacles of souls departed, The kingdom of Heaven, and Hell. As for any third place he saith penitus ignoramus, we know none; neither find we any such mentioned in the holy Scriptures. And in his eighteenth Sermon, De verbis Apostoli, Duae habitationes sunt, una in igne aeterno, altera in regno aeterno. So that howsoever there was in his days some wavering conceit, yet was not the doctrine of Purgatory held then as a matter of Faith. And to that purpose he 
r Euchirid. c. 69  speaketh saying, It is not incredible that such a thing should chance after this life, and whether it be so or no it may be questioned: and again 
s De civit. Dei. lib. 21. cap. 26.  non redarguo quia forsan verum est, I do not deny it, because perhaps it is true. Thus have you purchased a second forsitan to accompany that which was freely given you by Vives his pen. As for other places where it is not expressed, it is necessarily to be understood; for had he delivered his mind elsewhere positively, and apodectically herein, I cannot see what should move him here to shake his own foundation, by making others to doubt of that, whereof himself was certainly assured. The best men (in which number S. Bernard may be reckoned) have had through the corruption of time their pardonable errors. Sometimes they were led with the blazing star of conjecture, and not always with the day-star of truth. So that we have no warrant further to follow them (though they were Angels) than the guidance of God's word.  jab. 

t Pag. 70.  What can be sacred and certain amongst Christians, if an unlearned Knight may be permitted to deride that, which the most famous Divines, and Fathers of former ages, do without the contradiction of any peremptorily deliver, as an undoubted verity?  Nick. 
Lord how the Noddy rumbles in jabals' stomach! how feign would he disgorge it on the bosom of the Fathers, of whom never man spoke with greater respect than my master! As for those that are of our Doctor's rank, I must needs say he casts the Noddy amongst them without a forsitan.  jab. 
Indeed he doth hierogliphic my name of 
u Preface.  I.R. in English, Latin, and Hebrew, making me in the one jack Rogue, in the other Iscarioth de Rubigine, and Ishmael Rashacheh in the third, wherewith he joineth the Surname of Cecropidan Licaonite.  Nick. 
He saw you were 
x I.R.F.  Trium literarum homo, therefore (for want of a better godfather) he made bold to fit your Appellation according to your predominant quality. And seeing there was no one word or single language able sufficiently to express your worth, he thought fit by his variety, to make you known for a viperous Sesquipedalian in every coast, where the frothy Libel of such a nameless miscreant should arrive.  Min. 
Had you said (shameless) you had given him no more than his due. What will he not spare to speak, who dares aver that the Fathers of former ages do without the contradiction of any peremptorily deliver the doctrine of Purgatory, and the same exposition of this place, touching pardon in the next world? How waveringly S. Augustine speaks, his Forsitan backed with an Ignoranius doth sufficiently declare. Macarius' his dicotomy of two sole receptacles, doth exclude any opinion of a third. Chrysost. tells us that God 
y In Pre. e. in Isay.  quando peccata abolet, nullam reliquam facit cicatricem: Tertullian joins in the same peremptory assertion, 
z Tertul. de Ba●t.  exempt to reatu eximitur et poena. What think you of S. Hierome? doth he deserve to stand in your Calendar of Fathers? As he crossed you in your foundation of the Maccabees, so doth he mar your market and raze your whole building with this 
a In Psal. 31.  gradation. Quod tegitur non videtur, quod non videtur non imputatur, quod non imputatur non punietur. That which is covered, is not seen, that which is not seen, is not imputed, that which is not imputed shall not be punished. Where is now the generality of consent? Is this your certainty without contradiction? Doth S. Chrysostom expound this place of Matthew otherwise then thus? Non effugient poenam, they shall surely be punished. Speaks he one word to countenance your sense? You should have showed yourself far more Ingenuous in answering to this; as Durandus & Antonius in the behalf of Indulgncees. De Indulgentijs (say they) pauca dici possunt per certitudinem, quia nec scriptura express de eyes loquitur, Sancti etiam patres Ambrose, Hillarius, Hieronimus, Augustinus minime loquuntur de Indulgentijs. Touching Indulgences (the inseparable 
b Per modum Causae.  Concomitants of purgatory) little can be said by way of certainty, because neither Scripture doth expressly mention them, neither do the holy Fathers speak of them at all. With the like speech did the Knight present you out of 
c Roff●a●tic. 18. contra Luth. Lett. to T. H. pag. 77.  Roffensis, vizt. whosoever shall read the Greek Fathers, shall find very rare or no mention of Purgatory.  Ma. 
It seems the Doctor hath either a better pair of spectacles, or a more piercing sight. Shall we imagine he hath been more industrious in the perusal of th'ancient Records, than that eminent Bishop? or have we not rather just cause to think him too much devoted to Lensaeus his lines? which he rendereth word for word, without any further perusal of the truth. It is the customary 
d Motive T. H. pag. 169. in M●rg.  trade of the Romanists to vouch opinions when they want the Author's books. The view of the Father's writings would have stopped the passage, and curtold the Philactery of this his insolent brag.  Min. 
How willing they are to misunderstand the Fathers, their like collection in wresting the words of S. Paul, 1. Corin. 3.13. doth sufficiently proclaim. There the Apostle tells us, that Every man's work shall be made manifest, for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by the fire, and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. From this Metaphorical speech, they 
e Motive T. H. pag. 110.  would infer a literal necessity of Purgatory fire. But their grand Doctor saw so little colour for this, that he is driven to put them beside this plank: Patres aliqui (saith 
f Bellar. de Purg. lib. 2. ca 1.  he) per ignem non intelligunt ignem purgatorij, sed ignem divini judicij. Some of the Fathers do not by fire under stand the fire of Purgatory, but the fire of Divine judgement. When the Ancients speak of this fire, the Catholic spirits traduce their words, and think they have gotten a great purchase. Sure it is the fire whereof S. Paul there speaketh, hath no affinity with the fire of Purgatory: for that trieth every man's work, this only purgeth some men's persons: every man's work is subject to that fire, as well gold, silver, and precious stones, as timber, hay, and stubble, but as for the fire of Purgatory, they make it capable of no other fuel than timber, hay, and stubble, the defilements of venial and mortal sins. S. Paul's fire makes every man's work manifest, the Pope's fire burning in an obscure place is without all lustre and light. Besides if they understand the Apostle as speaking of a real fire, they must also grant that he speaks of material gold and silver, etc. If th'one be Metaphorical, there is no reason they should deny th'other to be Allegorical.  Ma. 
Your Inference hath the warrant of Quintilian. In Allegoria (saith he) tenendum est illud, ut quo ex genere rerum coeperis eodem desinas, secus Inconsequentia foedissima erit. But as I remember I have read sundry fathers alleged 
g Motive. T.H. pag. 110.  that the Apostle doth there intimate the fire of Purgatory.  Min. 
Those testimonies of the Fathers which speak of the fire of the day of doom, or of Divine judgement (which is ignis proba●s, non purgans) these wrangling Sophisters take with the left hand to support the purging and tormenting flames which the bellows of their superstition hath kindled in the forge of credulity. As for this fire here specified 
h In Locum.  sermo Christi est, saith S. Amb. It is the word of Christ: 
i In Psal. 118. Ser. 18.3.  opus quod ardere dicitur mala doctrina est, The work which is said to burn is evil doctrine. S. Bernard (though elsewhere somewhat overswayed with the currant of those times) is yet content to imforme 
k Bern. serm. de Lig. foes. Stipul.  us, That the bitterness of the soul, the confession of the mouth, the punishment of the body (which are all in this life) are that fire whereby the lose and negligent builder shall be saved. 
l Lib. 2. adverse. I●uin.  S. Hierome by this fire understandeth the furnace of tentation, whereby a man is tried in this life.  jab. 
The fathers may sometimes 
m Pag. 78.  bring places of Scripture, which have other sense, yea perhaps the sense that one or other doth give may not be the best, which is to err according to the Analogy of place, not of faith.  Ma. 
The Knight's answer is not yet refelled. If the Doctrine of true faith depend upon the solidity of exposition, it cannot be but they, who may errein the Analogy of exposition of place, may likewise fail in the Analogy of faith. Laeso fundamine nutat Tota dom●.  jab. 
This Distinction you 
n Ibid.  understand not: when many Fathers of the Church agree in the same exposition of Scripture without the contradiction of any, the same is to be thought the undeniable sense of that place.  Ma. 
The Doctrine of the Romish Church is far more strict than you seem to allow: If the credit of the Ihesuite Chavasius 
o Profess. orth. sid. §. 37  may bear any sway, you are to stand to that exposition of Scripture (and that upon oath) which is Secundum unanimem consensum Patrum, whereas you content yourself with the agreeable consent of many 
p Ad quem ibimus?  Fathers in the same exposition of Scripture. How you will avoid perjury or what time you had need take, to the making of a Sermon, following this rule, I refer me to your most serious and sober thoughts: he had need have a good Library that will avoid the censure of your Church; yea he may perchance burn all his books, before he shall set them agreed. In this point we will give allowance to your position, having produced more demonstrative authorities for the nullifying, than you for the ratifying of Purgatory. I confess it will be no easy matter for us to prove a contradiction in the exposition of the place, especially amongst those who never heard of that Commentitious figment: for how should they gain say that which was not so much as questioned in the more Ancient times? It sufficeth us that your sense hath no general justification in neither of your grounds, which are otherwise interpreted by the most, and not peremptorily paraphrased for your purpose by any of the best rank.  jab. 
calvin's 
q Pag. 70  Arianizing wit (though he may find some plausible evasion) cannot be excused of haereticali call rashness, who dareth expound this text of Scripture Ego & Pater unum sumus, I and the father are one, of unity, of consent, and will, not of nature, and substance; adding that the Ancients did abuse the same, to prove the consubstantiality of the Son of God.  the uniform consent of Fathers have canonised that meaning of the words, he cannot be a true Christian, that will not (neither was Caluin that did not) submit his judgement thereunto.  Ma. 
May the Fathers, to prove this or that Catholic verity, bring in places of Scripture that have other sense, yea may the sense that one or other doth give not be the best, though the Doctrine thereby proved be true? then judge how base and injurious an imputation you lay upon Caluin, fetching him by force within the compass of heretical Arianizme, (who was ever most adverse to that viperous brood) having no other crime to challenge him withal, besides a religious modesty in forbearing to rack a parcel of Scripture for the uttering of that evidence, which was more naturally deputed to the delivery of other places. The sacred writ is so plentiful in proofs for the confutation of that devilish surmise, that he held it no good discretion, to raise a suspicion of penury or doubt, by insisting upon that, which (being not fully pregnant) might be avoided by the indifferent sense of another clause, where the same phrase did occur. You may as well challenge Bellarmine, Valentianus, and other Ihesuites, who in their Treatises concerning the Trinity, do not approve of many interpretations of Scripture, which were by the Fathers (somewhat too liberally) produced, against the same Heresy of Arianisme. As for the place now questioned, the judgement of Caluin is, that the word unum cannot absolutely evince an Individual unity of Essence, because in the seventeenth of john vers. 22. Christ prayeth unto his father concerning the elect, that they may be one as we are one, where the word unum cannot enforce an unity of Essence in respect of the elect, and therefore not infer an Individual unity in respect of the father. This Inducement of Caluin thus grounded upon Analogy of Scripture, doth at least acquit him from your Taxation of Rashness. Might it stand with your leisure to peruse his divers confutations of Arianisme, you should find him plentiful in alleging many other more direct places to that end.  jab. 
He cannot be a true Christian that would not submit his judgement to the uniform consent of the Fathers.  Ma. 
This is your usual ostentation, this is one of the bombasted Articles of your new Romish faith. If this may be allowed as the touch stone of Christianity, all the sort of you will soon appear to be most professedly perjured above all other Votaries in the world. There are divers places of Scripture expounded with uniform consent of Fathers (in cases of no small moment) which are at this day 
r D. M●rta. de Iurisdict. part. 4. pag. ●73. Maldon. come. in Mat. 19 Platin. in Steph. vita.  rejected by your Church. When you pull out this beam of Perjury out of your own eye, you may with better licence point at the mote of Rashness, which you cast upon Caluins' brow.  jab. 
The uniform consent of Fathers 
s Pag. 71  doth not require that every one, none excepted, should expressly teach the same Doctrine, (for then scarce in any point could this uniform consent be proved) seeing all writ not of the same point, but it sufficeth that many have taught it without the contradiction of the rest: and such is the exposition of this place for Purgatory, and for the dead in the next world.  Nick. 
O how curious the Doctor is in his limitations and preventions! he would have made a good Lawyer, able to set all his neighbours together by the ears: He is content to chop Logic with you by the clock; but to keep himself from push of Pike, he sets a dead hedge, and a double quick set in the way. When he boasts of uniform consent, he means not every father, none excepted; when he speaks of teaching, he supposeth it may be collaterally, and not expressly. Besides he would have you learn, that all who expound the same place, do not write of the same point. Nay more, if the corruptions of latter times have put a Quillet upon any learned man's pen, unless it be contradicted by the writers of former ages, (who did not so much as suspect any such unhatched Novelties) it must pass as currant not to be opposed without the tincture of heretical rashness. This I take to be the project of jabals' mazed speech.  Ma. 
By my white Staff (the earnest of my neighbour's love, and the Ensign of mine office) well noted. He would lead us into a Labyrinth, and wots you what? the tail of his assertion savours more of absurdity, than the whole body thereof, which you have anatomised, viz. Such is the exposition of this place for Purgatory, and for the dead in the next World. Such is the exposition of the place so spectrically raised, and so dubitatively propounded by the Interpreters themselves, and so thwarted by a whole jury of Catholic Doctors (even of the Latin Church) that it affordeth no settled abode for his future Remission to repose itself.  jab. 
S. Chrisostomes' exposition is 
t Non effugient poenam.  not contrary to this, for first it is not sure & certain that universally all such sinners are punished in this world, many times they flourish, prosper & spend their whole lives in great jollity, as divers persecutors, Sodomites Apostates, have done, which the Kt. names as sins Irremissible, & calls their authors sinners in grain. Besides sin never to be remitted, is more than to be punished in this world & in the next: for as S. August. 
u Pag. 71  says, one may be punished both in this, and in the world to come, and yet have his sin forgiven at last. The meaning then of S. Chrisostome is, they shall be punished in this world without pardon, and in the next world likewise without remission.  Min. 
Master Rachil you have made so worthy a speech, that I know not whether I should admire the volubility of your tongue, the sublimity of your spirit, or the quintessence of your wit: first because you would have somewhat to say, you inform us that S. Chrisostomes' exposition is not contrary to this; where as it was only related as a different sense, wherewith you might well have contented yourself, for as much as so worthy a father, and so faithful an Interpreter, did therein discover not so much as a glimpse of forgiveness in the after-world, which (no doubt) had it been so necessarily obvious as you pretend, he would in no wise have omitted. Secondly, whereas Saint Chrisostome saith that some capital Malefactors are both tortured in this life, and tormented in the life to come, You are so saucy as to instruct him, that this is not universally true, which if it hold in any (as no probability can exempt those Blasphemers, in whom our Saviour instanceth, at least 
x Infidelitas ●psa poena magna est sib●. G●● 3. cap. joan.  from the griping of an unquiet Conscience) the father's distribution must not be subject to your check. Thirdly, such is your acquaint conceit that you tax him for coming short of our saviours sense, Sin never to be remitted is more (say you) then to be punished in this World and in the next: which is as much as if you should say. Alas good Father Chrisostome where is now thy eagle's eyes, wherewith thou wast wont to penetrate the most abstruse mysteries? how far art thou unlike thyself in thy Commentary upon this place? Shall 
y Aug. de Civit. Dei li. 21. cap. 13  Virgil and Plato by the light of nature find out a Purgatory, and are thy eyes so dim not to discern it in this disjunctive? What will become of 
z Pag. 72 Etiam in ●ac quidem vita mortali purgatori as poenas essa confitemur. Aug. de Civit. Dei. lib. 21. c. 13.  Purgatory- Clemency if nec in hoc saeculo nec in futuro be thus sensed. Hadst thou written thus upon Mark 3.29. 
a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  it had been somewhat tolerable, but in overslipping such an opportunity of backing us in the principal ground of so gainful a position (to say the truth) you were not well advised. Thus unkindly, though more covertly, do you handle Saint Chrisostome.  Nick. 
He makes some part of amends with his newfound distinction. The meaning of Saint Chrisostome (if his word may be taken) is this: They shall be punished in this World without pardon, and in the World to come likewise without remission.  Ma. 
I have read of certain Marinors, who upon extremity for want of ropes, were feign to shave a company of women, and make Cordage of their hair. To the like exigent is the Doctor driven. For want of better tackling, he hath shaved a bald Friar to borrow the shreds of a silly Distinction, which he hath trimmed without skill, and applied without art.  Nick. 
What difference is there I pray you between Skill and Art?  Ma. 
As much as between Pardon and Remission. The Doctor's memory is answerable to his wit: Erewhile he said, It is not sure that universally all such sins are punished in this World: now he recants, saying They shallbe punished in this world yea without pardon. And to make up the ●ime he adds, In the next likewise without remission; as if some sins (not before forgiven) were then remitted, which is the point now in question. Is not this a neat Extinguisher?  jab. 
The Knight hath a distinction devised by himself or his Ministers: which he opposeth against our Catholic exposition. He will grant 
b Pag. 72.  sins pardoned in the next world, and yet not yield one penny to our Purgatory box. In this world (saith he) sins are fully pardoned, quoad remission is applicationem, and the self same sins shall be pardoned in the next World, per Remissionis promulgationem. This he thinks is the five fingers which will carry ●way the set from the Fathers. Yet I dare say a man that hath been conversant in the Scriptures, will judge it no better than Noddy.  Ma. 
Quod facis Ingrato perit. Your friendly Nod well requites the Knight's courtesy. His Adversary was desirous to conclude out of the former ground, that Some sins were remitted in the world to come. This Sir Edward (for quietness sake) was content to admit with the most favourable construction he could possibly find: acknowledging that as sins are here loosed by virtue of the Keys, through the particular application of the general promises; So at the restoration of the body in the last day, the pardon formerly granted shall take full effect, through the promulgation of the last joyful sentence. As it is here sealed to the conscience, so shall it there be published to the World. This he proveth by the rule of contraries: the unbelieving Reprobate is 
c john. 3. v. 18.  said to be condemned 
d Per excaecationem vel propter certitudinem. Gorran.  already, yet at the time of his dissolution, he is awarded his pain, nor can it be denied by any one acquainted with the Divine Oracles, but that he shall receive a further condemnation at the general Doom, when it shall be said, 
e Mat. 25.41.  Discedite à me Maledicti in ignem aeternum. In like manner though the Believer be here redeemed by the blood of the immaculate Lamb, yet his Saviour speaking of the last day, tells him that his 
f Luc. 21.28.  redemption draweth near. And as Saint Paul saith, 
g Rom. 8.23.  We that have the first fruits of the Spirit, do even sigh waiting for our adoption, even the Redemption of our body.  Min. 
The Doctor speaks better than he is aware in terming this distinction the five fingers: For the hand of God's mercy (whereunto it hath reference) in extending grace to his chosen children hath five fingers indeed. First, there is Salus decreta, the pardon decreed in the eternal Counsel of God. Secondly there is Salus oblata, Grace offered, in the ministry of the word: Thirdly, there is Salus recepta, the Pardon received, by faith, which is the gift of God. Fourthly, there is Salus obsignata, the Pardon sealed, in the due Administration of the Sacraments. And lastly there is Salus consummata, the pardon proclaimed, at their perfect admission into eternal bliss. All these fingers doth the Lord ordinarily lay on the heads of his elect, before they can be thoroughly blessed.  jab. 

h Pag. 73.  You preach very learnedly as you think, though God knows to little purpose. You can bring no express testimony of Scripture, that may give the least colour or probability to this your new fancy.  Min. 
The purpose I confess suits not with your humour, which debars it not from agreement with the truth: My drift was to let you understand that there belongs 
i Nunc recreamur continuo i●●amine medicaminis, tunc frucmur aeterna plenitudine sanitatis. Fulg. de Praedest. ad Monimum lib. 1.  more to the absolution of a penitent, than you seem willing to conceive; As his sins are loosed on earth, so shall they be loosed in heaven. Our pardon is fully and absolutely purchased 
k Agnus occisus ab origine mund●.  before we were, and it is ours potentially in the purpose of God, who hath decreed to give it us: but as it is not sealed unto us actually till we believe, so neither do we fully and plenarily receive the benefit and effect thereof, till our bodies shall arise at the great and general day of the Lord, 
l 2. Thes. 1.20.  When he shall come to be glorified in his Saints, & to be made marvelous in all them that believe; When the book of 
m Reu. 20.12.  life shall be opened, and when God shall judge the 
n Rom. 2.16.  secrets of men by jesus Christ. Though we have here 
o 2. Cor. 5.19.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The word of Reconciliation, yet are we further to expect 
p Rom. 2 5.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the day of declaration. Now are we the sons of God (saith 
q 1. john. 3.2.  Saint john) but yet it doth not appear what we shall be.  jab. 
This is a new devise not backed by the authority of any Father, which therefore may justly be suspected. 
r Pag 72, 73.  If all sins must have double pardon, one in this world, another in the next, why should not all sinners have a double condemnation, one in this world, another in the next?  Min. 
The pardon is one and the same, the difference is only in the manner and time. Quod nunc sancti credunt, tunc videbunt, saith 
s De praedest. ad Monimum. lib. 1.  Fulgentius. That grace and mercy which the Saints do now believe, they shall then hear and see. And again, Iste est in homine ordo divinae redemption is etc.  nunc justificatus credat quod tunc glorificatus accipiat. So that besides that assurance of Remission, which we call pignus justitiae, the pledge of righteousness, there is also that which S. Paul styleth Coronam justitiae, the Crown of Righteousness, which is yet reserved for us in the heavens. S. Augustine commenting upon these words of the Psalmist 
t In Psal. 36.  Educet quasi lumen justitiam tuam, He will bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgement as the noonday, hath these words: Modo abscondita est justitia tua. In fide res est, et nondum in specie. Thy righteousness (which presupposeth Remission) is now hidden, apprehended by faith, and not as yet by sight. Nondum vides quod credis, cum autem caeperis videre quod credidisti, tunc educetur in Lumine justitia tua. Thou dost not yet see that which thou believest, but when thou shalt begin to see that which thou hast believed, then shall thy righteousness (formerly apprehended) be brought forth in the light. Promissorem adhuc tenes, exhibitorem expectas. To make this point yet more clear, he proceedeth in this wise. Quale sit judicium tuum adhuc non apparet: In isto saeculo quasi nox est; Quando educet judicium tuum velut meridiem? Cum Christus apparuerit, vita vestra etc. What thy judgement is, yet ●t appeareth not: In this world it is as it were night, when will he bring forth thy judgement as the noon day? when Christ your life shall appear. This is one of those reasons which the 
u Vide Thom. in Sup. 3. part. Qu. 8●. Art. 1.  Fathers allege why there should be a general judgement, notwithstanding the particular doom which the soul receiveth at the hour of death; that so the sentence of Benediction, and Malediction, which was before private and in part, might be then more general and complete. Have you forgotten S. Augustine's ground? 
x De civit. Dei. lib. 20. ca 14.  Quaedam divina vis aderit (saith he) qua fiet ut cuncta peccata in memoriam revocentur. There will be a certain divine power, by which we (even 
y Peccata ●●storum app●rebunt in Coel●. Stel. in ●●. c. 21  the elect) shall be then put in mind of all our sins. Wherefore seeing sins formerly canceled shall be there remembered and 
z Oportet ad hoc quod justa sententia appareat quod omnibus sententiam cognoscentibus merita & den. erita 〈◊〉 Thom. in Sup. 3. part. Quaest 87. Art. 2.  published, it is no new fancy to think that the pardon formerly granted shall be then also publicly ratified and acknowledged.  jab. 
You mistake your Card, and seem not to know the very principles of Christian Divinity. 
a Pag. 74.  That is not the day of mercy, but of justice, to give to every man according to his works, not to forgive any man his wicked works. That shall not be the general jail Delivery as the Knight surmiseth, but rather than shall be the general fi●ing of the jail with all sinners, to be locked up in misery everlasting.  Ma. 
The jail delivery, of which the Knight speaketh, doth glance at your supposed Purgatory, which by your own confession shall be then broken and annihilated: Implying that this Implication of future Remission (if any) may rather be understood of that general publication of pardon, when your imaginary flames shall be clean extinct; as if our Saviour had said, they shall neither have the seal of redemption in this world, nor the sentence of absolution in the world to come. Besides if you be well advised, you may further remember that the Children of God shall then be all delivered from the 
b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Apoc. 7. v. 14.  bondage and misery of this world, wherein they are imprisoned.  Min. 
But is that the day of justice, and not of mercy? remember the true opposition betwixt the just and the wicked, and your opinion will be soon altered. In respect of the greater part, it is indeed a dreadful day of severe justice, but if we consider the better part, it is the 
c Luc. 21.28.  gladsome accomplishment of his most abundant mercy. Unto those it is dies terroris, unto these it is 
d Esay 26.19.  dies laetitiae: unto those it is a day of perdition, unto these a day of Redemption. Will he not then be made marvelous in the free salvation of his Saints, as well as glorious in the deserved destruction of the wicked. There is 
e 2. Tim. ●. 8.  laid up for me (saith S. Paul) the Crown of righteousness, which the Lord the righteous judge shall give me at that day. 
f Ad mo●●● lib. 1.  Gratia est et illa justa retributio saith Fulgenti●. That is also a work of Grace which belongs unto that day. As we find our thoughts 
g Rom. 2.15.  accusing or excusing us, so shall we hear the Lord assoiling or condemning us. But not to quarrel about the word. I would gladly understand why it should not be a point of as great justice to proclaim pardon unto them, unto whom it was formerly granted, and by whom it was thankfully embraced, as to denounce sentence of death upon those, by whom this proffered mercy was so gracelesly rejected, Is it not as great justice in the Lord to ratify his word in blessing the one, as in accursing the other. So that this publication of remission doth rather build up, then destroy, the justice and equity of the supreme judge.  jab. 
It may 
h Pag. 74.  not be termed a Pardon, but rather a Triumph, and victory over sin. If the bare proclamation of Pardon may be termed Pardon, I see not why the proclamation of 
i Vid. Mat. 21.25.  Baptism may not be called Baptism.  Ma. 
Are not your proclamations of Indulgences called Indulgences and Pardons? Is not a King said to come unto the Crown, when he is proclaimed, though the day of his Coronation be deferred? Is it sencelessnes to use figurative speeches?  Nick. 
May 
k Pag. 75.  not they who are absolved in the Court of Conscience be afterwards pardoned in the exterior Court, by undergoing public penance and humiliation in the face of the Church for a sin already forgiven?  jab. 
Those 
l Ibid.  sins were not fully forgiven, the penalty of this disgrace being still reserved: so that your exposition crosseth the whole course of Scripture, not having any congruity with the phrase thereof.  Min. 
How great a stranger would you seem to be in Bellarmine's works? Will it please you to take notice of his Thesis? It is this, 
m De purgatorio.  Culpâ remissâ manet poena luenda. Though the fault be remitted, yet is the punishment to be sustained, Take away this, and what colour can you have for the defence of Purgatory? this your answer puts the nose of your Priestdome clean out of joint. When you absolve a penitent, enjoining him satisfaction in way of penance, whether are his sins remitted before satisfaction, or not? If they be not, how can you term your form of Remission an absolution? If they be remitted, then may sins be forgiven, and a kind of penalty still reserved. Choose whether part you will; If the first, you have answered nothing. If the second, you have thwarted your own solution, and answered more than you would.  Nick. 
As far as I am able to conceive, the point in question may fitly be explicated thus. A King out of his royal compassion, first granteth, then signeth the pardon of a malefactor: yet doth the party remain in durance, and undelivered, till the same be published to the Country, at the Assizes: when it is publicly read, doth not the judge say to the Prisoner at the bar, Lo here the King gives thee thy pardon, though it were under seal some months before? Nay do not they who are unacquainted with the King's former grant, when they see the bolt and fetters stricken off, use words to this purpose, This fellow hath his pardon, or else he had been trussed up amongst his Mates at the last execution? So likewise an Apprentice, at the expiration of his years is free by covenant; yet is he not so taken by the Company, neither may he set up Shop for himself, till he be entered into the Hall-book, at which time he is said to be made free. Will you say therefore that th'one had three pardons, or th'other two freedoms? As the pardon, so also the freedom is but one. One and the same act, keeps one and the same denomination: though it be differenced by more or less perspicuity of circumstances, as of time and place. I see no reason why that should be unapplyable to the consummation of any thing, which is attributed to the Initiation thereof.  Min. 
Trust me truly, Nick speaks to good purpose, marry you must not understand him of such transient acts, as are both begun and finished at once without any possibility of Iteration. As for example, a man aged thirty years cannot properly be said to be then borne, because there is no possibility of a second natural birth; neither may a true Christian man formerly initiated with the Sacrament of Baptism, be afterward said to be at any other time sacramentally baptised, because one and the same person is only once capable of that sacred rite. Of these and the like we speak only in praeterito, that such a one was borne and baptised. But in such permanent acts as may be repealed, renewed, or either in matter or manner, by a proceeding progress perfected, the case is otherwise: they retain their prime denomination, till they attain their full end and consummation. Of this kind were those instances, which the Groom delivered, very agreeable to the Remisson of our sins, for which we are every day petitioners: yea oft times we 
n Ezec. 18.24.  deprive ourselves of the benefit of our former pardon, and then our suit is to have it again confirmed. In a word, the world can take no certain notice of every particular man's spiritual estate, wherefore the publication thereof is reserved to the great and general day, 
o Si nulla peccata remitterentur in judicio illo novissimo puto etc. Aug. count jul. lib. 6. ca 5.  when the hand-writing which was against us shall be evidently seen to be canceled, and our enlargement from the power of sin and Satan fully accomplished.  jab. 
Such windings and turnings the Knights ministers have taught him to elude the force of Christ's words. 
p Pag. 75.  And to the end you may the better perceive his precipitation in censuring our former deduction as Nody, and that the force of our Argument may more appear, I will particularly examine his Cavils.  Nick. 
Now is Dame Purgatory giving up the Ghost, oh how she stareth, panteth, struggleth, and gaspeth, as unwilling to leave the world: when this pillow is plucked from under her head she will be soon out of her pain. Good Doctor speak not so loud, lest you call her again into a second, and more fierce agony.  jab. 
His first assault is by examples. A 
q Pag. 75.76.  Kentish Gentleman (saith he) not purposing to make his heir a great Clark saith thus, My eldest Son shall neither be Student in Oxford nor Cambridge; were not he an excellent Artist that should thence infer, Ergo some of his other Sons shall go to Cambridge? Or if he should say, My Son shall neither be Scholar in Eton, nor Fellow of King's College: were not he out of his wits that should hence conclude, Ergo a man may be Fellow of King's College 
r Being against the foundation.  that was never Scholar of Eton?  Ma. 
Amongst millions of stones and faces, 'tis impossible to find two so a like, that there shall be no difference. Similitudes are not of equal size in every part, 'tis sufficient if they agree in the main scope. What can be more pregnant to show the folly of your Deduction? The two English Universities, answer the two Worlds, the Gentleman's speech is only touching his eldest Son, as our saviours assertion touching one kind of sinners; the Inference concerning his other sons is against art, your Consequence touching other Sinners (being no part of Christ's scope) cannot free itself from unmannerly intrusion.  jab, 
He shows 
s Pag 79.  himself such an excellent Artist that he brings examples that make against his purpose. For the Kentish Gentleman's speech that his eldest Son shall not be Student in Oxford or Cambridge, nor Scholar in Eton, nor Fellow of King's College, though it do not import, that either his second, or third, or fourth Son shallbe Student in Cambridge, or Fellow of King's College, yet this doth follow, that some youths may and use to be students in Cambridge, some men Fellows of King's College, else it were foolish to make that special exception against his first Son, which is general to all other men's children.  Ma. 
See how your wit runs a woolgathering! while you seek to contradict the Knight, you give evidence against yourself. The immediate question between the Knight and his Adversary in this place, was this: Whether the words of our Saviour in this Scripture, did necessarily imply forgiveness in the World to come, touching sins of a lesser growth and degree? You answer to a speech of like nature, that it doth not import, that his second or third son, etc. shall be Student in Cambridge: which is all one as if you should say, Our saviours speech doth not determine that Sinners of another nature shall be forgiven in the world to come, which is as much as we crave.  jab. 
Yet this seems to follow, That some youths may and use to be Students in Cambridge, etc. else it were foolish to make special exception against his first Son.  Ma. 
Though it be true that there are Students there, yet it doth not necessarily follow, from the Gentleman's speech: for he might send his son to be a Student in Queenborrow Castle, or any other place, where the Arts were never read before. Indeed if there were no such place as Cambridge, than his speech might have seemed absurd. So likewise it follows from our saviours speech that there is a world to come: but that other sins (not formerly remitted) shall be there forgiven, you confess it doth not import.  jab. 
Should this Gentleman say, 
t Ibid.  My eldest Son shall not be an University Scholar, neither in Oxford nor in Queenborough Castle, were not his speech absurd? Why I pray you, but because Queenborough is no University?  Nick. 
You mean when my Master is away: but I can tell you when he is there, you would swear it is a little University. I may speak it to my credit, I have often wished those bookish Disputants a good way off, their arguing hath made us wait so long for our dinner. And when they are risen, it is one bodies work to run up and down with Books to set them agreed.  Ma. 
'tis well done Nick, to stand pro aris & focis, Had we a good Towne-stocke, thou shouldest have a pension, for thy good spoke.  Min. 
Nay listen a while to the Doctor, (who was neither an University Scholar in Oxford, Cambridge, nor Queenborrough Castle) how doth he conclude? Were not the speech (saith he) absurd, seeing Queenborrough Castle is no University? as if there were no difference between a Horsemill, and a Mill-Horse, between a specifical difference crossly applied, and an accidental attribute figuratively continued. The absurdity of your speech savours of the Mint, where it was coined; yea it hath little or no agreement, with the phrase in hand. For there is a necessary succeeding dependence, between this world and the next, which is not to be found between Oxford and Queenborrough Castle: wherefore the Negative is most improper in th'one, which is tolerable and significant in the other. Yet if any man should so speak, we are probably to understand, that he had no intention to make his son an Academic, yea scarce a Country Scholar, seeing Queenborrough is no place of note destinated for that purpose. So when our Saviour saith, It shall neither be forgiven in this world, nor in the world to come (which is not found capable by the Scriptures prerogative, of any such effect) it is plain, his intent is, that it shall not be forgiven at all; neither doth it imply, that other Sinners are there to be forgiven, as you would wrest the sense, contrary to your former acknowledgement.  jab. 
Except there be 
u Pag. 77  some remission of sins in the World to come, the speech of Christ should be senseless, and absurd against one sin, that it shall be remitted neither in this world, nor in the next, except some sins may be remitted in the world to come: wherefore to make the speech of Christ discreet and wise, we must needs grant, that some sins are pardoned in the world to come.  Nick. 
Itque reditque viam toties. This is right Sellenger's round, forward and backward. A great Horse that could troth the Ring so well, were worth much money. The speech indeed cannot but be discreet and wise, if it come once to your making.  Min. 
He paceth foot by foot after 
x De Purgatorio. cap. 13  Lensaeus: his words are these; We say that Christ did not use this distribution lightly ridiculously, or without weighty reason. And we say that he speaks figuratively, gravely, and pathetically, 
y 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  aggravating the sin by th'eternity of remediless punishment: excluding it from the present remission, which is incident to other sins, and debarring the person so obnoxious from the hope of future joy, which other sinners after their timely repentance are to receive. It is no unusual thing in the Holy Scriptures to put the cause 
z Ezech. 36.27  for the effect; wherefore seeing there is no other place to warrant your construction, I am the rather induced to think, that Remission is here put for the fruit and effect thereof, which is peace of conscience, joy in the Holy Ghost, and exemption from penalty; of all which this notorious sinner is pronounced uncapable, partly in this, and partly in the next World, which is a sufficient disparity, differencing him from others which enjoy both. Wherefore the last clause in our sense, is not superfluous and senseless, as you deem: seeing it extendeth itself to a further effect of the former Remission, whereof the Blasphemer hath no hope.  Ma. 
Were the speech senseless, if one should say, that the Doctor builds Castles in the Air? The speech is usual amongst the wisest men: should he not then show himself a worthy Logician, hence to conclude, Ergo material Castles may be built in the Air, or else the phrase cannot be discreet and wise? If borrowed Elegances were literally, and properly to be construed, then unless the sky fall, we should have no Larks, because the Proverb saith, When the sky falls we shall have Larks. This Doctrine would have driven the Larke-taker to seek a new occupation: and then your Ladies could not say by experience, that the pestle of a Lark were better than the whole body of a Ki●e.  Nick. 
Do you not think that the Doctor was lapped in his Mother's smock? he is so womanish, that he will never give over, till he have the last word. I had thought my master had given him his Belly full, when he told him that Theomisus should be his Schoolmaster, neither quick, nor dead; which speech he would not have so to be understood, as if Lectures were read to men when they are in their graves.  jab. 
The 
a Pag. 84  example to illustrate the matter, though it be not against the Logic he got in Paruies', yet it would not beseem the mouth of wisdom: to me it seems a spice of Blasphemy, for him to bring his phrases, which he confesseth are neither in mood nor figure, to declare the speech of Christ, whose words are in number, weight and measure.  Ma. 
'tis true, Quot apices, tot sententiae. Every syllable issuing from the Word of Wisdom is a sentence. Yet doth he not always deliver his mind in explicit Syllogisms; neither doth mood, and figure, still attend the most sanctified and industrious pen. But if it be blasphemy for a man to bring his own phrases to declare the speech of Christ, then is Lyra, with the rest of your Cherubicall Expositors, to be put in silence: and why? forsooth it is blasphemy to declare Christ's speech, by their own phrases and consequently the Doctor when he hath read his Text, must come out of the Pulpit, and play least in sight, right mum budget, making up the rest with signs and faces, for in no hand must he declare Christ's speech with his own phrases.  Nick. 
Did I not tell you that Purgatory was almost at the last cast? When he hath no other evasion, than he cries Blasphemy, We may now sit down, and decline victus throughout all cases.  Min. 
Nay it will be to our disadvantage, to give him time to breath, let us rather spur him this question, What sins they are which are forgiven in the world to come?  jab. 
They are such as were not 
b Pag. 77  formally, fully, and perfectly pardoned in this life: for the sins that were wholly pardoned in this Life, need no Remission in the next.  Min. 
See how you are ensnared in your answer. Dare you stand to this? Then I demand when you absolve a man upon his deathbed, now giving up the Ghost, and guilty of mortal sins, whether, (when he is dead) can he be suiect to Purgatory torment or not? If he may, then is your Priestly absolution no formal remission of sin, even by your own ground. If he be not, then do you utterly quench the fire of Purgatory: for how shall he be punished, that had his sins before formally, fully, and perfectly, remitted? You have no shift, except you will say that sins mortal are translated into Sins venial, and that eternal punishment belonging unto mortal sin be changed into temporal, which you count proper unto venial sins. But this were to overthrow the Law of God, which cannot but judge that to be mortal which is mortal, and accordingly award punishment eternal.  jab. 
Out of 
c Pag. 79  the former text of Scripture it is gathered clearly that some sins are remitted in the World to come, but what those sins be, venial, or mortal, likewise the manner of the pardon, whether it be according to the sin, or penalty, or both, cannot hence be proved: but out of other passages of God's word, these verities are to be searched.  Nick. 
He sends you to seek a needle in a bottle of hay; by like he thinks you want work, you may do well to dismiss him to make this search himself; when he hath found these verities, he shall have audience; in the mean time let him make a Syllogism in Celarent.  Ma. 
Honest Nick, I will owe thee a pound of thanks, for an ounce of patience; perhaps he hath somewhat else to say, touching the Knights other Logical assaults.  jab. 
He 
d Pag. 78  thinks to put us to a plunge, by returning our Parologisme (as he termeth it) upon us.  Min. 
Thus 
e Lett. pag. 34  he disputeth. The sin against the Holy Ghost shall neither be forgiven, quoad culpam, aut quoad poenam, in this World, nor in the World to come: Ergo, according to your Logical inference, the text equally intending both guilt and punishment, some mortal sins shallbe remitted & quoad Culpam & quoad Poenam in the World to come. If you grant this sequel, you cross the position of 
f Tom. 4. Dis. 45 § 1. pag. 557.  Suarez, who tells us that the remission of mortal sins in the world to come cannot be understood as touching the guilt, but in regard of the punishment, and consequently display the invalidity of your own Collection.  Nick. 
Either now or never must jabal show of what house he comes; now one flash my noble spark. Hath all thy powder taken wet? what not one squib to make a Crack?  jab. 
He returns arguments as children do stones they are not able well to lift, which they let fall on their head or foot.  Nick. 
Profoundly answered.  jab. 
It is 
g Pag. 78.  not against the doctrine of our Church, that some sins are forgiven in the world to come, & quoad Culpam & poenam, both according to the guilt of sin, & the guilt of pain. Yea Catholic Divines commonly teach that venial sins are remitted in the next world, according to both guilts, though of mortal sins Suarez saith, that Remissio mortalium, the remission of mortal sins in the next world, cannot be understood, quoad Culpam, according to the sin, but only quoad paenam, according to some penalty due unto it.  Min. 
If our Saviour-speake as well (if not more plainly) of mortal as of venial sins, than the conclusion according to your manner of deduction must indifferently hold, touching mortal sins, in both guilts, which seeing Suarez doth deny, it sufficiently bewrays the vanity of your partial inference. It had been your better course to have denied Suarez authority: for by yielding that the guilt of punishment remains in mortal sins, to be done away after the remission of the guilt of sin, you unsay that, which is yet scarce out of your mouth, viz. that sins formally pardoned in this life need no Remission in the next. So that the stone doth now give a double bound upon your pate, weakening the force of your inference, and discountenancing the doctrine of your Church; for if the sin be remitted in the next world, you confess it was not formally forgiven, in this present life. It would trouble Sisyphus himself to roll away this stone.  jab. 
Should 
h Pag. 79  a young Gentleman say that he will neither study in the Inns of Court, nor in the Universities, one may infer, except the speech be senseless, that in both places studies are professed: but he that would infer that Common Law is studied in Oxford, or Divinity professed in London, were he not absurd? So likewise the speech of Christ doth only signify in general, Remission in the world to come, not distinctly explicate the manner thereof, nor the quality of sins there purged.  Ma. 
What Doctor! will you take upon you to declare Christ's speech in your own phrases? beware of blasphemy. But conceive it aright, the case is not alike; for first you speak of two places; he only of one and the next world. Secondly these two places are known to be liable to two different kinds of study, whereas you all confess, that both the guilt of sin and punishment are included in the latter part of our saviours speech, touching the Blasphemer, which the Knight doth thus assume. That which is negatively spoken of that one sin, hath, you say, a contrary reference to other mortal and venial sins: but the sin against the holy Ghost shall in neither respect be remitted in the world to come, Ergo, other mortal sins shall be then remitted in both, which your Suarez denieth: and so your like inference bleedeth even to death, with the bruise of this stone. If your young Gentleman should say, I will neither study Seton nor Aristotle in Oxford, presupposing that both were appointed to be read there; it might be probably inferred, that other Students of the better sort do peruse th'one, as well as the other.  jab. 
Fain 
i Pag. 80.  would the Knight find some parallel in Scripture, to this speech of our Saviour. For want of better, he bringeth that of S. 
k Cap. 1.  Matthew concerning joseph, That he knew her not, until she had brought forth her first born Son. If out of this place (saith he) we should come upon you, Ergo he knew her after she had borne him, you would think that blessed and holy Virgin irrecompensably disparaged. And yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 seemeth to imply as much.  Ma. 
With what due respect he speaketh of that chosen Vessel, I refer the trial to his own lines, which are the best witnesses of his religious thoughts far was he from giving any countenance to the Heluidian Inference. Only he proposeth it to show, that if Scripture should be interpreted according to the first seeming blush, there would oft times arise an incongruous sense, not unlike this of yours, which is too servile to the letter, without the warrant (nay contrary to the tenor) of the whole Scripture, which doth neither generally signify any future remission, nor distinctly explicate the manner thereof, nor the quality of the sins that you suppose there to be purged.  jab. 
He hath 
l Pag. 82.  one shift more, which is a rule of Logic. Quod de uno negatur, non semper de diversis affirmatur, et é contra. His reason is this, Potest idem praedicatum de diversis subiectis praedicari? as thus, Eos qui foris sunt Deus judicabit; And this is as true, Eos qui intus sunt indicabit Deus: Where subiectum doth differ, the praedicatum being all one. Neither may we argue thus, they are to be judged of God; Ergo, not by the Magistrate: And yet you (saith he) stick not to conclude thus. This sin is not remitted in this world, nor in the world to come. Ergo some sins shall be forgiven in the world to come.  Nick. 
What flaw can you find in this?  jab. 
His 
m Pag. 84.  Logical rule (though the examples wherewith he declares it be childish) we deny not to be true, that what is denied of one thing is not therefore said of another: So by the rigour of Logic it doth not follow, that Remission of sin in the next world is granted of some sins, when it is denied unto one kind of sins.  Ma. 
This is all we ask, the Helena for which we have so long contended. Why do you then use this kind of arguing, which Logic the rule of reason disalloweth?  jab. 
It 
n Ibid.  followeth by the rules of prudency, because otherwise such a speech, though not false, yet should be idle and senseless, against rules of wisdom.  Min. 
Shall we never have done with your idle and senseless repetitions? The speech of Christ must be idle and 
o Haec cratio defenda videtur ●●bus qui nor ●ntelligunt.  senseless, unless it serve for your advantage. Is it not rather rigour in you to take a Praed'cate as spoken of one thing not intended, because it is purposely denied of another? What Father hath feed you to sue a divorce between the rules of Logic, and Prudency, which would not willingly be sundered? When did ever Prudency open her mouth to utter that wherein the assent of 
p Hanc artem nun quam doctrina christiana reformidat. Aug. cont● Craes●on. lib 1. cap. 20.  Logical consequence did not bear a part? Should you thus answer in the Schools, you would be hissed out (with your natural and artificial 
q Pag. 85.  nose) for an imprudent and irrational Ass. I confess there are great Mysteries (in their own supernatural essence) far above the reach of Logic; but in their deliverance and conveyance into our understanding they are always attended with one or other instrument of this Art, which is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the most methodical disposer, and faithfullest divider of the most abstruse mystical context. Disputationis disciplina (saith S. 
r De doctria. Christ. l. 2. c. 31.  Aug.) adomnia genera quaestionum quae in literis sanctis sunt penetranda, et dissoluenda, plurimum valet: & in the latter part of the sentence he toucheth your compeers to the quick, with this Proviso, Tantum ibi cavenda est libido rixand, & puerilis quaedam ostentatio decipiendi adversarium, which is the whole employment of your Logical fragments.  Ma. 
You give him this fatherly advertisement in good time; for me thought I heard him very captious about the examples of the Knight's ground, which he termed childish.  jab. 
He talks 
s Pag. 82.  like a great Doctor when he hath an ignorant reader. Is he not a Nody Logician, a young gamester in that Art, that cannot distinguish betwixt praedicatum, & subiectum, but taketh the one for the other? The praedicatum in his two propositions is not the same, the subject being different, as he saith, but the contrary, to wit, two different predicates are spoken of the s●me subject. The thing spoken is, judge of those without, judge of those within, which are divers titles, predicates, and properties; the thing of which it is spoken is God, one and the self same subject, on whom both those titles light. And seeing Subiectum in a speech, is that which goeth before the verb, Praedicatum that which followeth, the boys of Eton may serve to laugh him out of his witless bragging.  Min. 
Now do I believe you have as little Logic as Divinity. Unless you had a purpose to show Midas his ears, and to be hooted out of your Lion's skin, I cannot see what should move you thus grossly to bewray your captious folly. The Knight propoundeth his proposition, as it lies in the text, 
t 1. Cor. 5.13.  Eos qui foris sunt deus judicabit, which he matcheth with another as true, and so placed, Eos qui intus sunt Deus judicabit. Now the question is, which is the Predicate, and which are the subjects, of these two propositions. Let them be Logically reduced as they lie, and then they stand thus: 
u Nomen ex pluribus ●ocibus combinatum debet ad unicam simplicem vocem reduci.  Ethnici sunt à 
x Or Subijciuntur iud●cio divino.  Deo judicandi; Christiani sunt à Deo judicandi. Is not the Predicate which cometh after the Copula, the same in both propositions? are not the Subjects (which go before) different? Is it not spoken as well of those that are without, as of those who are within, that they are liable to the judgement of one and the same God? The thing spoken is to be judged of God, which is lemma self-same attribute; the Subjects of which it is spoken are different, viz. those that are without, those that are within. If judging those without, judging those within, be the Predicates, then are you to seek a Copula. Wherefore you should first make your proposition Logical, according to the 
y Interpretatio facienda est ex dicentis vel ser●entis primaria intention.  Propounders sense, before you had passed so rash and childish a Censure. I confess you may by a cryptical disposition, and Grammatical construction, turn the Cat in the pan, and change the places; which made the Knight add E contra, to the proposal of his ground. But the former enunciation, as it was directly mentioned by the Knight, so is it more 
z Propria praedicatio est, quando superius de suo inferiore enunciatur.  proper; the judge being superior to the thing judged. Besides, the Knight did not so much direct his Reader to the placing and marshalling of the words, in the Proposition, as to their order and reference in Argumentation, implying that it is no good consequence to argue thus; They that are without shall be judged by God, Ergo They that are within shall not be judged by God: because both are indifferently 
a Illud in propositione est verum et naturale Subiectum, quod extra propositionem 〈◊〉 ipsa rerum natura subijcitur  subject to the sentence of that great judge, whose judgement may be most truly spoken of them, as comprising both within the generality of the verge thereof.  Nick. 
The Doctor is so studious in the rules of Prudency, that he is to seek even in the Principles of Logic. Many a one talks of Robin-Hood who never shot in his bow: his meaning is to lead us over hedge and ditch (right the wild-goose chase) that so by stooping to these trifles, we might lose the sent of the question. Doth not my Master's ground, exemplified with these instances nullify your deduction?  jab. 
He must take 
b Pag. 85. 86.  to himself the Nody he laid upon our Exposition. That must needs be the meaning of the words which taken away, leaveth them in an empty sound, void of grave, and full sense: the speech should be absurd, for want of sense or mystery should he express a truth in a disjunctive speech, one clause whereof is senseless; This superfluity of speech, we take it a great blasphemy in you to suspect in the Doctrine of Christ.  Min. 
We hold it no superfluity, but rather a weighty enforcement of Divine elegancy. Thus when the Evangelist speaking of Christ, saith 
c Mat. 5.2.  Aperiens os suum àocebat eos, opening his mouth he taught them: we may not infer, that a man may speak without opening his mouth, or else one clause is idle and senseless; the setting out of one and the same thing, in a divers phrase, giveth a 
d Tanquam magna & profunda sed aperta dicturus. Gorran.  weight to that which is spoken. Vbicunque legitur Dominus aperuisse os (saith S. 
e De Serm. domini in monte.  Augustine) inspiciendum est, quia magna sunt quae sequuntur. Illud diligenter notandum (saith 
f In Psal. 1.  Bellarmine) Consuetudinem Davidis et aliorum Prophetarum esse, ut id ipsum bis repetant, ita ut una pars versiculi sit repetitio & explicatio alterius. This is diligently to be noted, that it is the custom of David and the other Prophets to repeat the same thing twice, so that the one part of a verse is the repetition, and explication of the other. 'tis an ordinary phrase in the Scripture to say, 
g Psal. 72. v. 5.  As long as the Sun and Moon endureth. May he hence imagine, that therefore the Moon shall endure after the Sun? or shall we tax the Prophet for a superfluous speech? Id ipsum explicat verbis idem significantibus, (saith Bellarmine) of the like. He expresseth the same thing in other words tending to the same sense. So here when he saith, nec in hoc saeculo nec in futuro, the words do Rhetorically, and Emphatically, give life unto the assertion in the former verse, viz. 
h Mat. 12.31.  Non remittetur, it shall not be forgiven him: which this annexed disjunctive explaineth to signify as much as never.  Ma. 
The Doctor I presume is not ignorant, that there were in those days not a few highly renowned Saducees who denied the 
i Act. 23.8  Resurrection, and by consequence any afterlife. Wherefore the addition of the latter part, touching the World to come, were in no sort to be deemed idle, had it only reference to the abating of the courage of these Heretics, who confining their joys and sorrows within the compass of this present life, were not like greatly to pass for any threat, which had no further Extent than the date of this World. Wherefore in this respect alone, it were no absurdity for our Saviour to give them a Cooling Card, by letting them know, not only that there is a World to come, but also that their obstinate and wilful Blasphemy shall be there punished, without expectation of Remission, or hope of ease.  Nick. 
Sir, you have won the spurs, the Doctor is off the hooks, the nose of his Deduction is now set clean awry; the supposed Idleness of the most Divine speech, is demostratively removed; Purgatory hath fetched her last breath. It is in vain for the Doctor to froate the Keycold Carcase any longer. If he power in a pint of Doctor Stephen's water, it will not move a joint. Me thinks I see the mortuary Suffrages, and moth-eaten Miracles lamenting about the coarse. Kind hearts; I think they are all agreed to 
k unica defunctas tres continet urna sorores.  die for company.   

CHAP. FOUR The Scriptures authority and sufficiency warranted, against prayer for the dead, and other Romish Traditions.  jab. 
THat short and 
a Pag. 90  pithy treatise, which the Knight sought to disgrace with frothy lines, alleged for Purgatory the Custom of the Church to pray for the dead, and their relief in the Holy Sacrifice of the Altar: which custom he proveth was perpetual, even from the blessed Apostles.  Ma. 
What that Author (then carried with the precipitate motion of your superior and irregular Spheres) was enforced to write, he hath now upon his second settled, and more deliberate thoughts, found sufficient cause to disclaim. Your confident suggesting made him somewhat too credulous in believing. Having lost his Anchorhold, he was the more easily driven upon those quicksands, by the violence of a swelling 
b Doli fabricator Epeus.  Flood. His stayed judgement hath since taught him, to think Pygmalion a fool, for doting so much upon his senseless feature, which hath neither breath nor life.  Nick. 
Give jabal leave to lick his own whelp. When he hath done all he can, it will prove but a deformed lump; his apish dandling will hazard the thriving. Never did I see the spawn of a Crab-fish prove good Sturgeon.  Min. 
Seeing you attribute such pithiness to a shaking reed, we are content to see you brandish your own spear: the weapons that came out of your own armory, may happily serve best for your own use; And though we could wish you to make experiment of your valour in spiritual assaults, yet (rather than our discourse should shrink in the wetting) we are not unwilling to hear you press your own arguments, touching the Churches 
c Pag. 91  perpetual Tradition to pray for Saints in Purgatory in the next life.  jab. 
Saint Cyril 
d Pag. 91  Archbishop of jerusalem, living in Constantine the Great his time, writeth of that practice in this sort. When we offer up Sacrifice, we pray for our deceased Fathers and Bishops, and finally for all men departed amongst us, for we believe that this is a great help for the souls of them, in whose behalf we offer that Holy and fearful Sacrifice, which is laid upon the Altar. Saint Chrisostome saith as much, that it was not unadvisedly decreed by the Apostles, that in the fearful Mysteries, there should be a commemoration of the dead, for they knew the dead received great benefit and utility thereby.  Ma. 
Your Pinfold of Purgatory is no whit the stronger, for either of these testimonies. It is not once named, nor presupposed. If you confess that the Fathers, Bishops, and all men departed (for whom they) prayed were pinned up in that Coop, then is your argument of some force. But seeing your Charity dare not pass so rash a Censure, their general practice 
e Suffragia ●uiusmodi non prosunt animabus in vita aeterna. Iniuriam facit Martyri qui orat pro Martyr. Pet jerem. Sir 25. de Suffragijs mortuorum.  cannot establish your particular dream. Saint Chrisostome tells you that these Sacrifices and Prayers, whereof Cyril speaketh, were Commemorations of the dead, which you may be the better induced to believe, because they prayed for All: whereof some were patriarchs, some Martyrs, some Confessors, and many of them blessed Saints, already invested with Celestial glory. Saint Cyrils' Sacrifice in the behalf of these could be no other, than the Sacrifice of Praise; which seeing he attributeth (without distinction) to all the faithful departed alike, your differenced Purgatorie-paines are not at all eased, by this ancient, pious, and laudable practice.  Nick. 
There was a time when the Romanists also 
f Pet. jeremias ibid.  prayed for the Vessels in glory, in this manner: Annue nobis Domine ut animae famuli tui Leonis haec prosit oblatio. But being better advised, (lest praying for the Saints in glory they might nullify the presupposal of Purgatory Indigence) they have changed it thus, Annue Domine quaesumus intercessione Beati Leonis haec nobis prosit oblatio.  Min. 
It is most true that the Greek Church prayed for the dead, yet make they no mention of Purgatory; 
g Apol. graec. pag. 119.  We have not received (say they) from our Doctors, that there is any such temporary punishment by fire, and we know that the East Church never thought so.  Nick. 
Yet doth he produce Cyril, that this is a great help for the souls of them, in whose behalf we offer that Holy Sacrifice.  Min. 
You shall not need to have this knot cut, which may be so easily untied. It was then generally received amongst those ancient Fathers, 
h Bart. Medin. Six. Senens. Bibl. lib. 6. anno. 344.  that the souls of the Saints being received into an outward Court of Heaven called Abraham's bosom, did not see God until the day of judgement; from this groundless Supposition, proceeded their mortuary oblations, whereby they were petitioners for the hastening of their remove into the highest Heaven, not for the lessening or mitigation of any scorching agonies, the fear whereof the Pope's pecuniary Hobgoblinets (under the conduct of superstitious devotion) did afterwards raise. Your argument drawn from tradition, as it hath error for her original, so hath it Sophistry for the Abettor. They prayed for the Martyrs, and for all the righteous from Abel; and yet you say with Cyprian, False Martyrij omnia peccata creduntur purgata. They prayed for the consummation of their glory, as 
i De obit. Theodos.  Ambrose for Theodosius and Valentinian, whom he had pronounced as undoubted heirs of the Heavenly Jerusalem: and Augustine for his mother Monica, the safety of whose soul was not so much as questioned; whereas your oblations are of another Dye, being neither Congratulations for their present joys, nor testifications of your Christian hope but imaginary reliefs from that place, which Scripture doth not specify, and from those pains which 
k 1. Cor. 13.67.  Charity hath no warrantise to misdoubt.  Nick. 
If they will draw in a Purgatory perforce, in my mind they should do better (for the avoiding of partiality) to let the body, (which hath not the least part in the pleasure and fomenting of sin) have a turn or two in those flames, as well as the soul: Shall the terrestrial part sleep in peace, and shall the spiritual part pay so dear, for the works of the flesh? This were to give the body a 
l Pares in culpa. Pares in poena.  privilege and prerogative above the soul.  Min. 
Nick You digress: I was about to crave his answer to 
m Art. 18. pag. 86. b.  Roffensis his relation, who saith that the Greeks' to this day do not believe there is a Purgatory, and that in their Commentaries there is very little or no mention thereof at all. Yea the Latins (saith he) did not all of them together receive the truth of this matter, but by little and little; Whereunto Polydore also seemeth to assent.  jab. 
You 
n Pag. 92  omit that which you have in your Latin Original, Quantum opinor, as I now think or guess, saith that Bishop, which is less than a new nothing to hang on your sleeve. For though Roffensis at that time had such a thought, not having then so fully perused the Grecian Fathers, yet afterwards in that very Book, when he cometh to speak of Purgatory, he doth affirm the contrary in express terms.  Ma. 
He hath a very simple Naperie, who is feign to wipe his nose with a Fox's tail. Did that Bishop write in such haste, (without perusal) that he had no leisure to give a dash to so short a sentence, in a point so material, having before the finishing of his work found the bush, that could stop so main a gap? Did his wisdom give such reins to his unruly pen, to say and unsay without a check? What ancient Greek Father doth he nominate to contradict his former opinion?  jab. 
Whereas 
o Pag. 93  Luther did object, that the Greek Church did not believe Purgatory, he maketh this answer: I take it you mean the vulgar multitude of that Nation, not the Fathers of the Grecian Church; for that the Grecian Father's favour Purgatory, the works they left behind them do witness.  Min. 
Without all question Purgatory was greatly in their favour, when they could not so much as once vouchsafe to name it, throughout their many books. Had they beeleved it, their Charity would have compelled them to reveal it. Your Roffensis I perceive was then in a desperate case; lest Tradition should be also wrung out of his clutches, he is enforced to try his wits: and lo how gaily he distinguisheth, I take it you mean the vulgar multitude of that Nation, not the Fathers, as if they would not have received it, if their Doctors had delivered it. Is it not a rare jest, to search for the Records of faith inter Idiotas? Can they have been raised from their graves to testify that by word of mouth, which they were before unable to write, the Bishops surmise had been more reasonable. And what tokens of love doth he bring from those Fathers to Purgatory? forsooth they mention Sacrifice and Prayer for the dead; that so the souls departed being yet (as they thought) somewhat recluse, might more speedily enjoy the beatifical vision of God; as also that condign praise might be rendered to the Almighty, by the aid of whose grace they were enabled to die in the faith.  jab. 
Whereas 
p Ibid.  Luther objecteth that Purgatory could not be proved out of the Scripture, Roffensis replieth, that to pray for souls in Purgatory is a most Ancient custom of the Church.  Nick. 
I promise you a witty answer, and to good purpose. 'tis an ill Horse that can neither wey-hey, nor wag his tail. Your faction were little beholding to him, if he would not say that it is a most ancient custom. All the craft lies in the catching of this swift-winged proof. Can the Doctor come to lay salt upon the tail of it, we should soon have it in our dish.  Min. 
Saint Paul who was rapt up into the third Heaven, should know as much concerning the most abstruse mysteries, as the best. He writing ex professo to the 
q 1. Thes. 4.  Thessalonians touching the state of the dead, and prefacing his speech with Nolumus vos ignorare de dormientibus, speaks not one word of this newfound Land, nor of any ransom to be paid for their enlargement, who are there imprisoned. Yea more, he closeth that discourse with this Epilogue, that he would have them comfort one another with these sayings: which had not been so properly, or seasonably spoken, were there a Purgatory, and penal satisfaction to be undergone after this life. The foolish Virgins that cried, 
r Mat. 25.8.  Date nobis de oleo vestro, were nonsuited with a nenon sufficiat nobis & vobis. So that the deceased estate of your declining Purgatory, receiving so small a subsidiary supply from that high & sacred Court of the Apostolical Synod, must be feign to stand to Roffensis his temporising credulity.  jab. 
You 
s Pag. 93. 94  have the whole Army of the Christian Church in all ages set in battaile-aray against you: the blessed Apostles with pikes (as I may say) of Divine authority standing in the forefront.  Ma. 
Indeed if Roffensis were an Apostle, the Sett is yours. He saith it is a most ancient custom of the Church; but he falters in his evidence.  jab. 
To impeach 
t Pag. 91.  the authority of the Church is the badge of heresy, to condemn her custom is insolent madness.  Nick. 
This is your Ladies A.B.C. your Church is as much beholding unto you, as was Pythagoras to his Scholars. In stead of Ipse dixit, you will have Ipsa dixit.  jab. 
What man 
u Pag. 94. 95.  that hath any bit, either of divinity in his head, or Christianity in his heart, or Sobriety in his tongue, would accuse Catholics for esteeming the Ipsa dixit of the Church, as much as the Pythagorians did the Ipse dixit of their Master? Why should not this Ipsa, the Mother of Christians, the spousess of the Holy Ghost, this Pillar and Foundation of truth, this Daughter of God the Father, washed with the blood of his Son, that she might in her doctrine have no blemish of error: Why should not her word (I say) be more esteemed of by her children, than the saying of Pythagoras a Pagan Philosopher was with his Scholars?  Nick. 
I ask the banes of matrimony between Water and wort. Do you think to out-swagger us with your Rhetoric? then I tell you Doctor, your Romish Church is not the right subject for those sweet attributes. She is not the Mother of Christians, but the Foster-dame of Heretics: Not the Spouse of the holy Ghost, but the Minion of Antichrist: Not the Pillar, but the Poller of truth: Not the Daughter of God the Father, but the Bastard of Satan: Not washed in the blood of his Son, but polluted with the loathsome stains of Heathenish Idolatry. If words will carry it, we will roll in our figures as well as you.  jab. 
Oh what 
x Pag. 95.  glorious Fathers and Doctors could I name, famous in former ages for sanctity and learning, that submitted their judgements to the sayings of the Church.  Ma. 
O what a glorious Church were your Antichristian Synagogue, did it not dissent from that primitive purity of doctrine, whereunto those famous Doctors, and holy Fathers did subscribe; then were it insolent madness in any, to reject her authority.  jab. 
Little 
y Pag. 96.  judgement or piety do you show in your jest at our Ladies A. B. C: as if the authority of the Church were not the Alphabet and Christ-cross row, in which all Christians ought, and all ancient Christians did learn, to read and believe the Scriptures. S. Augustine the Phoenix of wits, the Mirror of learning, did he not learn in this book? Truly (saith he) I would not believe the Gospel, did not the Church's authority move me unto it.  Min. 
Sooner shall you persuade us that a foul noisome Sty is a fair princely palace, then that your Romish Seminary is that Church, of which S. Augustine spoke. And yet must that holy Father be 
z Non disputas ad idem.  rightly understood; He speaks there of his Introduction to the faith, not of the Foundation thereof. Being before a Manichy, he could not of himself have found the way, out of the darkness of that blind heresy, unless the Catholic Church had lent him her hand, to conduct him to those Crystal streams, by the 
a Ecclesia proposuit evangelium Euangeliu composuit fidem.  virtue whereof his eyes were opened, and his mind enlightened. He had been like enough to have passed by that Living fountain without regard, had not their 
b Causa sine qua non.  direction, who had made trial of the sovereignty thereof, persuaded him to make his repair thither for the like success. Wherefore he should have been very ungrateful for so irrequitable a benefit, had he concealed the means whereby that his so great happiness was so luckily occasioned. What good he received from the Church, he freely acknowledgeth; yet is he not so unjust as to make his requital with the Scriptures 
c Non dicit, Nisi me Ecclesiae authoritas Moveret: sed Commoveret.  wrong. Yea so far is he from subjecting those infallible Oracles to the judgement of Men, that in the fourth Chapter of the same 
d Aug. Cont. Epist. funda.  book, he challengeth the Manichyes to produce Scripture, for their opinionative error, with protestation that he would then forsake the name of the Church, the Consent of people and Nations, and return unto them. So that howsoever the authority of the Church was an allective inducement, to draw him to the Gospel, yet was the Gospel a far more potent instrument in the founding, and settling of the spiritual edifice of his faith, upon the solidity whereof he did principally, and most confidently depend.  Ma. 
If it had not been for the tidings of the little 
e 2. Reg. 5.3.  Maid, Naaman had not gone to the Prophet in Samaria, by whose prescript he was healed. Shall we therefore say, that she had any hand in the curing of his leprosy? No doubt her courtesy was not forgotten; but the main homage and reward was offered to the man of God. Had it not been for the 
f joh. 4.42.  Woman, the Samaritans had not come unto Christ: but they heard him speak, before they knew him to be Christ; then (lo) they believed, not because of her words, but because themselves had heard him.  jab: 
The 
g Pag 57  Ladies of your Church learn forsooth of the spirit: they trust to ipse dixit, who will teach them which is the Scripture. They are the sheep of Christ, and know his voice, from that of strangers. These are your Ministers fair promises; Yet I dare give them my word: though they have the best spirit that ever possessed any man of your Church, notwithstanding they may err damnably, mistacke Scripture, think that to be true translation, which is indeed erroneous. I see 
h Pag. 98.  no remedy for them, if they mean to be saved from the Deluge of errors, but to fly to the Ark of Noah printed at Venice; Your sheep must learn in an hebrew Grammar, to understand their Pastors; they must nibble on those roots of jury, wherewith it would be great pity your rare Creatures should be troubled.  Min. 
As touching our translations of the Bible, though they admit a variety of style and phrase, yet they concur in a Sympathising unity of matter and sense. They all accord in one issue without contradiction: they all direct by one and the same way, to one and the same end; so that the most unlearned, if he have not a desire to go astray, cannot tread amiss. There being but one choice of truth proposed, there is hardly any possibility of being deceived. The Ladies are not ignorant, with what princely Cost and Care that Work hath been lately revised, by such grave, learned, and industrious persons, who for knowledge in the original tongues were best esteemed, and for their sincerity lest to be suspected. Wherefore, this having past the test of strictest discuss, being allowed by the Church, and uncontrolled by the most prying and Censorious adversary, they are assured of the infallible truth thereof. By the sweetness of the fruit they evidently see, that it sprang from a sound Root: by the illumination of the 
i 1. joh. 2.20.  spirit which leadeth into all truth: by the ministry of the word of God, ratified with the 
k In Euangelijs omnis veritas, & omnis manifestatio veritatis Origen.  agreement, and explained with the perspicuous reasons, of the Scripture itself: by the efficacy thereof in captivating their understandings unto the divine will, and their carnal affections to the regiment of a supernatural law: by often reading, which begetteth experience, and by hearty prayer, which hath a promise of effectuating their zealous desires; they are infallibly sure, that their translation is true, and their understanding agreeable to the rule of faith. Moreover, the principles of faith, with are absolutely, and necessarily to be known, believed, and practised of all men, are there blazed with such a 
l Aug de doct. chris. l. 2. c. 9  radiant lustre, that (without affected ignorance) they are obvious to every eye. Though perhaps the genuine interpretation of some places of less consequence be sometimes mistaken, yet is not the foundation razed; so that their error is neither pernicious, nor damnable.  Ma. 
If our Ladies thus furnished in their mother tongue, having no recourse to the hebrew text, be in such danger of error; in what a pitiful plight are those creatures, who are tied to their vulgar latin translation, which they understand not? How shall they try the spirits of their teachers, having so crooked a rule, which they know not how to use? May not such a Pilot as Dr. jabal steer their vessels upon the rocks and sands? how shall they know that this or that is the sense or Tradition of the Catholic church? I see no remedy for them but to fly to Socrates, Zozomen, Eusebius, Theodoret and the other Antiquaries for relief, and then they must be well skilled in the tongues.  Nick. 
If there should be a grammar school erected for the feminine gender, it would be a brave world: jabal would sue for the Vsher-shipp; O how featly would he discipline their Albes! There would be Tollo, tollis, sustuli. The Girls will never consent to so harsh a motion; they had rather speak true english at home, then make false latin at School, under such an yll-faced Tutor.  jab. 
Had not 
m Pag. 58.  Luther the first fruits of the protestants spirit? Yet he erred most grossly: that even Zuinglius his fellow-witnes against the Pope, doth give this testimony against him; Thou Luther dost corrupt the word of God, thou art seen to be a manifest corrupter of the holy Scriptures. If he be so corrupt, what translation or spirit of your church may your Lady's trust?  Ma. 
These are not the first fruits of your witless malice, neither was Luther the first coiner of our protestant faith, which doth carry the right stamp of the most ancient, sacred, and primitive truth. Let the Scripture be the arbitrator of his writings, then will your slander be soon silenced and suppressed with shame. As he was a man, he might be subject to some particular error, which if Zuinglius reproved by warrant of the Scriptures, it proceeded from his love to the truth, not out of hatred to his person. And have there not been worse broils among your scholastical Divines? Have not the positive Constitutions of former councils been repealed by those that succeeded? Have not the Pope's Decrees been censured and discarded by their successors? Where was your Catholic spirit all that while? It is in vain to look for a 
n Foelix qui minimis urgetur.  heaven upon earth. Shall the whole fabric be pulled down, because a window, or a Chimney, or a Tile is misplaced? He is a good Architect that leaves nothing to mend. Zuinglius his reproof may inform you, that our Church is more devoted to the Scriptures verity, then to the most prime man's authority.  jab. 
This is 
o Pag. 98. 99  the felicity of our Catholic Ladies, that by the word of the Church, they know certainly, which is the letter of the scripture: Which your Ladies like stray-sheepe must seek on the top of craggy mountains, as the Knight termeth the Hebrew language, not without eminent danger of an eternal downfall.  Nick. 
Here is a do with the Ladies falling If you were their Gentleman Usher, should they not have a stout supporter? Stand to your tackling good Doctor.  jab. 
There is such a 
Ibid.  confusion in your Church, that as Irenaeus noted of ancient Heretics, one shall scarce find two that will spell the same sense out of the same words.  Ma. 
Why hath God given such diversity of gifts to his Church, but that there should be 
q Quid in divinis eloquiis largius & uberius potuit divinitus provideri, quam ut e●dem verba pluribus inte ligantur modu. Aug. de Doct. Chris. lib. 3.  variety of applications? Is not the King's Daughter in fimbrijs aureis circumamicta 
r Psal. 45.14.  varietatibus: Clad in a vesture wrought about with diverse colours? If the stuff be the same, 'tis no great matter though the lace and embroidery be not laid in all alike. What contradictions can can you specify in their expositions?  jab. 
These four 
s Pag. 99  words, Hoc est corpus meum, containing not above fourteen letters, you have devised above four times forty expositions, so different, as the Authors of the one, damn the Favourers of the other to Hell.  Ma. 
A fit receptacle for all such loud liars, who care not what Crudityes they vomit, upon the bosom of the most eminent and innocent persons, without either fear or shame.  Min. 
They that are conversant in the writings of your Catholic Authors, know that there is almost as much difference among them, about the three letters of this one syllable, Hoc, as is amongst the Protestants, in the whole sentence.  Ma. 
If Mercury himself were amongst them with his rod of truce, all his Rhetoric would hardly teach them their 
t Quid dem? quid non dem? renuis tu, quod jubet alter.  Concords. jabal forgets how Leo the second condemned Pope 
u In Epist. ad Imperat. ad fin. 6. Synod.  Honorius for an Heretic. Had Zuinglius served Luther's books, as Pope 
x Platina in Sabin. & Senens. lib. 4. pag. 23.  Sabinian did the works of Gregory his predecessor, we should have an outcry against fiery spirits; then he might more tolerably have demanded, What shall your poor Ladies do in this combat?  jab. 
They may 
y Pag. 99  rashly persuade themselves, that this or that exposition is the best, but certain of any thing they can never be, till they admit the Catholic Ladies A.B.C. the Church's authority, learning of her the sense, of whom they took the text.  Nick. 
When the men of Thessalonica 
z Act. 17.11  tried the Apostles Doctrine, whether it were true or no: did they send a Legate to learn the judgement of the Church of Rome? Unto whom did they repair, but unto 
a Scrutabantur Scripturas.  him, that had the words of life? Our Ladies are not so raw in the Scriptures, but that (if there were such difference amongst our Ministers as you suppose) they can take that which doth best agree with the Analogy of Faith, and the Rule of Charity. The spirit of God is not so fixed to the Doctor's chair, but that it is most free, to make even them of the lowest form 
b Super Senes intellexi: quia mandata tua quaesivi, Psa. 119 v. 100  wise unto salvation:  Ma. 
I have heard a worthy speech of Panormitan often alleged to this purpose, that there is more credit to be given to one 
c Plus credendum viro Laico afferenti Scripturas, etc.  Laic that bringeth Scripture then to a general Council, representing the universal Church, if it have not the warrant of the word. It is not long time since I read how Paphnutius by this means prevailed against a whole Synod, and stopped the passage of the warrantlesse superstition of single life. And not without great reason. For if antiquity be to be respected, or consent to be regarded, the Prophets and Apostles have the superioririe in both.  Min. 
Whereas he complains of confusion and danger of misinterpretation, for the magnifying of Tradition, he forgets the censure of 
d Lib. 3. Cap. 2  Irenaeus upon the prime Heretics, for the same quarrel. 
e Difficilis paucisque conveniens eruditis. Aug. adverse. julian. l. 5. c. 1  julian the Pelagian thought, by objecting the perplexed difficulty of the Scriptures, to have brought his cause to a foreign bar. Notable is that speech of Cyprian, so much applauded by Saint 
f In Epist. ad Pomperanum count Epist. Stephani.  Augustine, In compendio est (saith he) apud religiosaes mentes & errorem deponere, & invenire atque erure veritatem. Si ad divinae traditionis caput & originem revertamur, cessat error humanus. Si canalis aquae deficiat, nun ad fontem pergitur? Si in aliquo nutaverit veritas, ad originem Dominicam & Euangelicam & Apostolicam traditionem revertamur. Ind surgat actus nostri ratio, unde & ordo & origo surrexit. Saint Ambrose denies your pretended difficulty. Paulus (saith he) in plerisque ita se ipse in suis exponit Sermonibus, ut is qui tractat nihil inveniat quod adijciat suum, aut si velit aliquid dicere, Grammatici potius quam Disputatoris fungatur munere. When as Cresconius pressed Saint Augustine with Cyprians authority, what was his answer? Literas Cypriani (saith 
g Cont. Crescon. li. 2. c. 32  he) non ut Canonicas habeo, sed eas ex Canonicis censidero, & quoth in eyes divinarum Scripturarum authoritati congruit, cum laud eius recipto, quod autem non congruit respuo. The same Father writing upon the seven and fiftieth Psalm, shows the like resolution. Auferantur chartae nostrae, procedatin medium Codex Dei. Let our Writings stand aside, and let the book of God be brought forth. This was that Umpire unto whose authoritative sentence 
h Extant Apostolici libri & Prophetarum Sanctiones, quae nos erudiunt quid de rebus sacris sent●re debeamus. Theodoret. lib. c. 7.  Constantine wished the Bishops to stand, for the appeasing of the differences which arose amongst them in the Council of Nice. This is that 
i 2. Pet. 1.19  shining light, whereunto Saint Peter wills us to attend; and hereunto we are the rather encouraged, because Christ himself hath promised, 
k joan. 7. v. 17  that he who hath a faithful heart, and an obedient mind to do his will: cognascet de Doctrina utrum ex Deo sit. So that if the Gospel be hid 
l 2. Cor. 1.3 Non propter servos fidelis sed propter fines divitiae Scripturarum sub figillo clauduntu●. Aquin. in Apoc. cap. 1. ex Ambrosio.  it is to them that perish; whose minds the God of this world hath blinded, that the light of the Gospel should not shine unto them.  Nick. 
You have given him Tow enough for this Distaff. If I might be now so bold as to interpose a question, I would request the Doctor to resolve me in this. Our Saviour at his last Supper gave the Cup, saying, 
m Mat. 26.27.  Bibite ex hoc omnes. The Romish Interpreters appropriate it, to the Priest only. Saint Paul teacheth that marriage is 
n Heb. 13.4  honourable amongst all men; they say that it is dishonourable to the Clergy. Christ tells his Apostles that the Kings of the Nations bear rule over them: vos autem non sic; They say that Cardinals are more than 
o Papa Sceptra ligonibus equat.  King's fellows, and that the Pope hath power in his great toe, to spurn them from their regiments. The Law of God teacheth us that Images are not to be worshipped; they make their Proselytes fall prostrate before them. Saint Paul saith, Nemo vos judicet in cibo & potu: they make it more capital than adultery, to eat flesh upon 
p Video preceptum esse ieiunti●, quibus autem diebus in Euangelicis l●teris non video definitum. Aug. Epist. 86  friday. The Scripture is peremptory that we are justified by faith, without the works of the Law; they magnify the sufficiency, yea the surplusage of works. Now in this combat, what shall your poor Ladies do? whom shall they believe? If the Church be 
q Eph. 2.20  built upon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles, then are these the judges, by whom the truth must be tried.  jab. 
You 
r Pag. 99  need I fear the remembrance Zeno gave to a talker, that was often laughed at for his folly; Loqui lingua in mentem intincta; to speak with your tongue dipped in wit, not in wine.  Nick. 
You have lapped so long (with your saucy tongue) in the Bowl of wit, that you are now feign to feed upon very dry conceits. If your perished brains were taken out and washed in a neat cup of white wine, your wit would be far more brisk. Have you forgot the old friars complaint, 

In Cratere meo Thetis est coniuncta Lyaeo,  
Est Dea juncta Deo, sed Dea maior eo.  
Nil valet is vel eanisi cum fuerint Pharisaea  
Haec duo, propterea sit Deus absque Dea?   

Bacchus and Thetis in my Cup are met:  
Bacchus and Thetis strive, she wins the set.  
Nor God nor Goddess please me mixed in one,  
I should like Bacchus, were pale Thetis gone.   Doth not your jovial Genius fall once a month into such a vein?  Ma. 
My Masters, I fear we had need send for a Stickler to part the fray; Your jangling will make Master Vicar forget what he was about to say. Me thought I heard him naming Saint Ambrose.  Min. 
That which I had thought to produce as an upshot of the point in hand from that Father, was this. 
s Amb. de virg. lib. 4.  Nos nova omnia (saith he) quae Christus non docuit, iure damnabimus, quià Fidelibus Christus via est. Si ergo Christus non docuit, quod docemus etiam nos, detestabile iudicus. S. Chrysostome also tells 
t In Rom. hom. vlt.  us, that there would be no offences nor differences, unless some opinion were broathed, contrary to the Apostolical Doctrine. And 
u In Mat. hom. 25 & similiter in Levit. cap. 5  Origens' words are these, Sicut omne aurum quod fuerit extra templum non est sanctificatum: Sic omnis sensus qui fuerit extra divinam Scripturam, quamuis admirabilis videatur quibusdam, non est sanctus. As the gold which was without the Temple, was not hallowed: So neither is the sense, which is without the verge of scripture, to be approved. So that touching prayer for the dead, we say with Saint Hierome, 
x Hieron in Titum.  Sine authoritate Scripturarum garrulitas non habet fidem. And with S. 
y De officijs l. 1  Ambrose, Quae in Scriptures Sacris non reperimus, quemadmodum volumus usurpare possimus. And with Tertullian Nobis curiositate opus non est post jesum Christum, nec inquisitione post evangelium: Cum credimus, nihil desideramus ultra credere. Hoc enim prius credimus, non esse quod ultra credere debemus: And with 
z In Decret. 11 Quaest. 3.  Gratian, Is qui praeter voluntatem Dei, vel praeter id quod in Sanctis Scripturis evidenter praecipitur, vel dicit aliquid imperat, tanquam falsus testis Dei aut Sacrilegus habeatur. Which Censure. I can hardly perceive how the Doctor will shun seeing that without either evidence of Scripture, or warrant of any Primitive Father, he would 
a Stamen flaccidum arancosi pertexit. Basil.  impose us (under the glorious title of his Church) so super-stitious a Custom.  Nick. 
Their Romish Church is Magna Diana Ephesiorum, of more principality, than the rest; her authority must out-sway Scriptures, Fathers, & whatsoever else is of most sacred esteem.  jab. 
Saint Irenaeus a 
b Pag. 120.  most Ancient Bishop and Martyr, who lived immediately after the Apostles days, doth give the former style to the Roman Church, planted by the most glorious Apostles Peter and Paul Ad quam propter potentiorem principalitatem, necesse est omnem convenire Ecclesiam; which principality you cannot imagine what else it may be, besides the Primacy of Peter, to whom Christ did make subject all other Pastors and Churches; by the light of which singular privilege bestowed on this Church in her first Pastor, she doth shine, Velut inter ignes Luna minores And in this respect the Roman Church may be termed Diana.  Nick. 
It is not unlike, for she hath turned you into a fugitive, and senseless Creature; If you be wearied in the Chase, you know whom to thank.  Ma. 
In my opinion jabal is taken in his own toil: & tripped in his own turn. The Roman Church (saith he) shines, as the Moon amongst the lesser stars. He doth well to say, as the Moon; which is still in the change. She that was a beautiful 
c Fuimus Troes.  Queen, in the days of Irenaeus, is now become a painted 
d Peiora novissima primis.  Harlot, prostituted to all manner of Impurity? Superstition hath blown upon Diana's Nymphs, so that they can now no longer stand upon terms of virginity. She that was Princess amongst the Churches is made tributary to Satan; her light is eclipsed with Idolatrous positions, and Antichristian practices. She hath changed her 
e Tune lignei calices & aurei Sacerdotes: Nunc aurei calices & lignei Sacerdotes. Bernard.  wooden Chalices; but she hath lost her golden Priests.  Min. 
Had Irenaeus taken Principality in your sense, for an absolute spiritual, and universal pre-eminence, and jurisdiction, over all other Churches, he would not have been so bold, as to control that great Victor, chief superintendant of so predominant a Sea; You may probably imagine he intended no such necessary subjection thereunto, (as would serve your turn) seeing he 
f Euseb. li. 5. c. 23  joined with those, who did communicate with the Asian Churches, notwithstanding the excommunication, which the Pope had denounced against them. The Church of Rome was then in the full, (glittering with splendencie of Martyrdom) wherefore he sendeth the Heretics, (with whom he was confronted) thither for light, where the brightest rays of orient truth were most conspicuous. Had he lived to see Turbanus that man of sin (with the furze-bush of superstitious Trumperies at his back) seated in your Moon, he would have blessed himself at the sight, of so strange a Metamorphosis.  jab. 
Heretics 
g Pag. ●01  in all ages have been condemned, by the judgement of the Roman See; by the light of her authority, they were forced to see the deformity of their hellish pride. This consideration moved Saint Augustine to say, that the Catholic Church derived from the Apostolic See partly by the authority of Counsels, partly by the Consent of the World, partly in the Majesty of Miracles, had obtained the height of authority, frustra circum latrantibus haereticis.  Nick. 
Forward Children are seldom long-lived; Welfare him that hath a winter-witte long a ripening. Did you ever hear such an unmellow kind of arguing? That which Saint Augustine speaks of the Catholic Church, he applies to his Romish Synagogue. Admit he had spoken of jabals' Apostolic See, as it then was; Whence did it obtain the height of authority, but from the Consent of 
h Propter quod unumquodque tale illud magis tale.  Counsels, and from the majesty of truth? Doth this make any thing for the Principality of Rome innovated, which is now so far from taking her authority from Counsels, that she disannulleth, and overswayeth them at her pleasure? So far from receiving countenance from the truth, that she discardeth the most sacred verity, which beareth not the Impress of her partial senses. If I be not deceived, Heretics have been also confuted, and condemned, by Damascene, Epiphanius, Irenaeus, and other Greek Fathers as sufficiently, as by the Popes of Rome. It were well if you would now dip the tip of your tongue in one dram of wit, to give a better relish to your speech.  Min. 
Whilst Rome (being the most opulent, populous, and eminent City of Christendom) held forth the burning Taper of God's truth, there was great reason she should be held in especial regard; but now, (the Candlestick being removed) it is as just, that her authority should be lessened. Saint 
i Lib. de peccat. merit. & remis. cap. 27.  Augustine was not so Parasitical, as to flatter her in her errors. There was a Case wherein Bee did not stick to say, Magis me movet authoritas Ecclesiarum Orientalium. And Aeneas Silvius is not afraid to say, that before the Nicene Council, there was no great respect had of Rome. So that it is not the person of Peter, but her Constancy in the faith of Peter, that did make her great. Besides, the greatness whereof S. Augustine doth speak, is not ascribed to the Roman, but to the whole Catholic Church.  Ma. 
I do not remember that we received either Scriptures, Creed, or the four first general Counsels, or any foundation of faith from the Roman Church.  jab. 
Perhaps 
k Pag. 102.  your reason is, because these councils were held, not in Europe but in Greece: but the cause was the purity of one, never falling into heresy, and the infelicity of the other, never to be without the inventors of such Monsters. Those heresies against which such councils were called, did spring up in Greece. This was the cause that the Orthodoxal Bishops of Greece in defence of truth, were often forced to fly for succour to the Roman.  Ma. 
Had there been such Principality in the Papal Sea as you surmise, those Heretics would rather have been cited to the Romish Consistory, and there received their doom. Those worthy patriarchs, Athanasius and Paulus, sent not unto the Pope, as unto one Supreme under God upon earth, over the flock of Christ; but as unto a Christian Bishop, who was bound to interpose his best aid, for the Peace of the Church. Besides those of Rome, there also were other Bishops, whose presence was there also required; I hope you will not say there was a superiority in all.  Min. 
Nay 
l In vita Bonifacij 3.  Platina tells us, that the whole Greek Church was so far from yielding to the Pope's 
m It differed also in the observation of the feast of Easter.  Supremacy, that they complained, when Phocas conferred it upon Boniface. It is an incredible happiness, which you ascribe to the Roman Church, that it never fell into heresy, when as the 
n 2. Thes. 2.7.  mystery of iniquity began to work, even in the age of the Apostles. Then was 
o job. Mar. belg. pag 441.  Petrarch too blame for calling Rome the Whore of Babylon, and 
p Hist. pag. 535.  Matthew Paris for saying, she was a shameless, common, and prostituted whore. Did not Marcellinus commit Idolatry, in offering sacrifice to jupiter? Did not Pope Liberius fall into Arianisme, when Athanasius stood upon his right feet? I am sure you have heard that Honorius the first was a Monotholite, holding that Christ had but one will, and one nature.  jab. 
The 
q Pag. 102.  sincerity of doctrine, as Ruffinus noteth, is the cause that the Church of Rome did never add, any word or syllable to the Creed: but kept the same entire without addition.  Ma. 
Then you grant as much as we crave: that those principal jewels, which the Catholic Church prizest most, came not out of Rooms Treasury. Me thinks you should blush, when you name Ruffinus: for how have you degenerated from that ancient Rome, who have not been ashamed to add not only syllables, but more than eleven articles, to the Apostolical Creed? Reckon them upon your fingers, and you shall neither find the Pope's Supremacy nor Purgatory etc. which you have added as points of like necessity to be believed.  Nick. 
Then have they little affinity with the true Church, for 
r Lett. to T. H. pag. 68  she taketh not upon her to control the holy Scripture her mother, from whom she drew her first breath: She openeth not her mouth, till her Mother have delivered her mind; she cometh not of her own head▪ with a sleeveless arrant.  jab. 
You 
s Pag 104.  describe the Spouse of Christ, as a mannerly young maid brought up in Luther's school. You deserve a 
t Pag. 106.  coat with four sleeves for this Metaphor, which maketh the Church Scripture Daughter.  Nick. 
Are these the 
u Praef.  Cumaean sops you promised? take heed lest you pluck an old house over your ears. Such liveries best befitt your indigent followers. Let him wear your fooles-coate with four sleeves, that is free of your company. You may cut as large a thong as you list of your own hide.  Ma. 
The Metaphor is sacred, and doth not deserve so ridiculous a weed. S. Peter useth it, saying, that we are borne a new, not of mortal seed, but of immortal, 
x 1. Pet. 1.23. Rom. 10.17.  by the word of God. I have begotten you saith S. Paul 
y 1. Cor. 4.15.  by the Gospel. The Church being begotten and gathered by the word, must not stand upon terms of seniority with her progenitor.  jab. 
The 
z Pag. 107.  Church of the old testament, was some thousand years before scripture: the Church of the new testament did flourish many years, before any Gospel was written. S. Irenaeus 
a Pag. 106. 107  writeth that many Churches in his time had never read any word of Scripture, yet did they flourish, by keeping the Tradition of Christian doctrine in their hearts.  Ma. 
A man might pose you; should he demand what proof you have for your Negative, that there were no sacred books, before those five written by Moses: seeing he mentioneth a 
b Num. 21.14  Book of the wars of the Lord, and the 
c joshua. 10.13  Book of the Just; what can you show to the contrary, why those books might not be written, by some of the patriarchs? Doth not St. 
d Verse. 14.  Jude allege a testimony out of the prophecy of Enoch?  Min. 
Let us not contend with him for this. What if we grant that the unwritten word was more ancient? the difference was not in the matter, but in the manner. It was unto them (being ratified by the Prophets, and confirmed by extraordinary revelations) in the nature of a written word. And when that word was expressed in visible Characters, Traditions 
e Mat. 15.3.  were of no longer use. As for the Gospel, it was written before the Race of eye-witnesses was extinct: & what they preached, the same things they registered. So that it was one and the 
f Proliteris spiritus Sancti gratiam se illis daturum repromisit. Chrisost. bom. 1. in Mat.  same word, by which the Church in all ages hath been gathered. For as 
g Euseb. l. 3. 20.  Irenaeus saith of Polycarpus, he delivered those things, which he had learned of them, who had seen the word of life, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, wholly agreeable to that which is written. The same Father 
h Irenaeus l. 3. c. 1  also informs us, that the Apostles left in writing to the Church the same Gospel, which they had formerly preached by word of mouth: that it might be a foundation and pillar of our faith; yea of that true and lively saith, which the Church hath received from them, and doth prescribe to her Children. As they preached, (saith S. Hierom.) for the confirmation of faith; so was it necessary they should write, for the confusion of Heretics. Contra insidiosos errores (saith S. 
i In Epist. joh. 1. tract. 2.  Augustine) voluit Deus ponere firmamentum in Scriptures. Seeing then the aim of God's spirit, in the delivery of divine Scripture, (which is 
k 2. Tim. 3.15.  able to make a man wise unto Salvation) was (as Theophilact writeth) to prevent haereses pullulaturas: what do they but open a gap for all heresies, which give way to unwritten, uncertain, and unnecessary Traditions? Considera quam sit extremae dementiae (saith S. 
l Hom. 1. in Mat.  Chrisostome) nos qui primam illam dignitatem perdidimus, ne secundo remedio uti velle ad salutem, sed coelestia scripta quasi frustrà ac vanè posita dispicere: Consider what extreme 
m Vide Euseb. lib. 3. cap. 33. de Papiae Paradoxis traditione fulcitis.  madness it is, that we who have lost that first dignity, (of purity) should refuse to use the second remedy for our Salvation, by contemning those heavenly writings, as if they were given in vain, and for no use. Thus in stead of the folly which you object, S. Chrisostome requites you with the note of no less than extreme madness.  jab. 
Where is the perpetual 
n Pag. 104. 105.  Virginity of the B. Mother, after the sacred birth of the Son of God, written in the Scripture? What is it but a perpetual tradition of God's Church? S. Augustine saith it cannot be clearly proved out of Scripture, that Heretics returning to the Church should not be rebaptized, and yet the Church hath forbidden the same; Shall we term this prohibition sleeveless?  Ma. 
The perpetual Virginity of the blessed Mother, is no matter of salvation, whether we believe it or no. Yet are we of that opinion: because as we read not any thing to the contrary, so it sorteth best with her honour, who was the Mother of our Saviour. As for rebaptizing of those, who were baptised by 
o 
Efficacia Sacramenti est ex institutioni ordinansis, non ex sanctitate min●strantis.  
Baptismus talis est qual●s ille i● c●ius potestate datur, non quali● percuius ministerium datur. Aug. in joh. ●.   Heretics, we rather follow Augustine then Cyprian; yet not because he hath taught it, but for that as himself saith, Ex evangelio profero certa documenta: I have sure 
p Eph 4.5.  proofs out of the Gospel. Yea he pronounceth a 
q Cont. lit. Petil. lib. 3. ca 6.  curse upon all such as teach any thing, either of Christ or his Church, or any other matter of faith besides that which is received, from the Legal and evangelical Scriptures. I once heard a Papist exceedingly puzzled, with a speeck of his to 
r Ad Max. lib. 3. cap. 14.  Maximinus. Neque ego Synodum Nicaenam, nectu Ariminensem debes tanquam praeiudicaturus afferre. Nec ego huius authoritate, nec tu illius detineris. Scripturarum auctoritatibus, non quorumcumque proprijs, sed utrisque communibus testibus, res cum re, causa cum causa, ratio cum ratione certet.  Min. 
Irenaeus & Tertullian, who had to do with such refractory Heretics, as either denied the purity of the Scriptures, or traduced the perspicuity of them: did both of them appeal to Tradition, because they where challenged at that weapon, by their adversaries. And by what Compass did they sail? first they prove that alone to be true, and authentical Tradition, which was delivered by Christ to the Apostles, and by them to the Church; by whom it was successively derived to posterity. Secondly they stand for no other Traditions, but for the very same articles of faith, which were contained in the written word. Peruse 
s Irenae. lib. 1. cap. 2.3. & lib. 3. cap. 4. Tertul. lib. de praescrip. haeret.  both their several, and specifical Enumerations of Traditions, which the Church hath successively continued, and you shall find them to jump in all respects, with the Apostles Creed. 'tis true they might have proved them before competent judges, by the authority of Scripture, but as the Case stood, the authority of the Church was thought more prevalent; and the rather, that they might show the harmony thereof, with the holy Scriptures. Wherefore if you stand for such Traditions as they urge, it is fit your Bill should pass, otherwise you must not take it ill, if your Grace be stopped.  jab. 
Do but 
t Pag. 105.  read your learned Author Hierome Zanchius, who will give you a newer tune, then that you have piped unto us. That Author teacheth that diverse unwritten Traditions, concerning Doctrine and Manners, are in the Church, which are not only profitable, but in a manner necessary, which we must reverence and obey, else we contemn the authority of the Church, which is very displeasing unto God. Your Dr. Feild grants that Papists have good reason to equal their Traditions to the written word, if they can prove any such unwritten verities.  Ma. 
Zanchius meaneth not your Lenten fast, your Ecclesiastical orders of Acolothytes and Exorcists: your Purgatory and Prayer for the dead, which you will sooner prove to be dreams, then Apostolical Traditions; but the very same which Tertullian and Irenaeus have recorded for such. Dr. fields (If) touching the point in question, carries the sense of an impossible Supposition: which we have reason to suspect, till your Purgatory show a better pedigree. If you can prove this, to be one of those unwritten Traditions, whereof Zanchius speaketh, than we will (according to Dr. fields advise) not much dissent from your Conclusion, till than we must crave pardon.  jab. 
The 
u Pag. 107.  places which the Knight allegeth to prove the Church's Doctrine in this point to be a Satanical figment, disgraceful unto the great mercy of God, and evacuating the Cross of Christ, are many: but either so trivial and known, together with the Catholics answers, or else so ridiculously applied, wrung and wrested to your purpose, that their very sound is able to break a learned man's head.  Nick. 
Then had you need of a good headpiece, to bear off the weight of the blow, whose sound maketh so great a battery. Yet if none but learned men's heads be in danger of breaking, your rough-hewen sconce need fear the less. Well, seeing my Mr. is arrested for bloodshed, he means to answer the action upon Bail. And for want of a better Atorney, let me crave a Copy of your Plea.  jab. 
Shall 
x Pag. 108.  I make the Analisis of his Rhetorical arguments? They be three Enthymems I think. The first, The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church, ergo there is no Purgatory. The second, The school of Christ went down to the nethermost hell; ergo, no Purgatory can be found. The third, Christ bound the strong man, and took his Fortress; ergo, Purgatory must vanish away.  Ma. 
The argument that once passeth your fingers, is not dismissed without a torn fleece: but seeing we must take it as you present it, let us hear your exceptions, why it should undergo so trivial and ridiculous a censure.  jab. 
Can you 
y Ibid.  deny but many of your praedestinate and Elect are, for robbing and stealing, and other such crimes, locked up in London gaols? What shall not Hellgate prevail against them? & shall the wall of a prison mew them up? Hath the soul of Christ gone down into the nether-most Hell, & made no passage through Newgates' Limbo, where sometimes your Elect are kept? Hath he bound the strong man, that he should not harm, and shall now a Hangman put them to death? You perceive I hope the vanity of your Inferences.  Ma. 
He that looks upon them through your spectacles, may read Absurdity indeed. But that you may know the falseness of your Glass, by the misshapen Representation which it giveth to so well a proportioned face; you must be advertised, that the Knight's argument was neither so Wide-mouthed, nor so Goggle-eyed, as the picture which you have drawn (according to your own Idea) to resemble it. He speaks of the state of th'elect in the after-world, according to the intendment of the Scriptures alleged; you wrist it to their corrections in this life, which have their profitable use. His scope looks to the satisfying of God's justice, which Christ hath fully accomplished: and not to those Chastisements (which are as spurs to drive men to lay hold upon that all-sufficient Sacrifice) at which your Squinteyed supposition doth glance.  Min. 
There are sundry reasons, why the Lord suffereth his Elect to undergo those bodily penalties. First, for the manifestation of his own justice: Secondly, for their Correction, humiliation, and amendment, that their Spirits may be saved in the day of the Lord: Thirdly, for the Caution and Example of others: Fourthly, for the maintenance of public tranquillity, and politic Society, which could not subsist, without these and the like judicial proceed. But why their souls should be stopped in the passage to eternal bliss, (the Cinders of original Concupiscence being quite extinguished by death, and the Gild of their former sins clean defaced by the merit of Christ) there can no reason be yielded, from the warrant of the word, which debarreth the strong man from surprising, and the gates of Hell from prevailing against them which die in the Lord. So that the light of these Illustrations is not so easily eclipsed, by the interposition of your Duskish conceit.  Ma. 
They that 
z Lett. pag. 87  die in the faith have peace towards God: they that have peace towards God, are justified by Christ: they that are justified by Christ are free from the Law: and being free from the Law, Quis accusabit? Who shall late any thing to their charge?  jab. 
I could 
a Pag. 109  cast your Elect into Hell from the first step of your Ladder. For they that die in the faith have not peace towards God, except their faith be joined with good works. Your Protestant faith is so lightfooted, or lightheaded rather, to believe that you shallbe saved, and your Charity so heavie-heeled to do good works, by which men must be saved: that an eternity of torments may pass, before your works overtake your faith.  Ma. 
This shows under whom you serve. 
b Apoc. 9.11  Ab●ddon is your Tutor, and he hath a destroyer (a bad one indeed) to his Pupil. I thought you had not been so near a kin to that evil spirit mentioned in Saint Luke's 
c Luc. 4 35.  Gospel, who broke the strongest chains, casting the poor Demoniac down, sometimes into the fire, and sometimes into the water. All that Satan himself could do, was to 
d Mat. 4.6.8.9.  persuade our Saviour to cast himself down: but now we have met with a stronger than he, one that will undertake to throw the Elect from the highest pinnacle of their assured peace with God, into the fire of Purgatory.  Min. 
The amity that is between a justifying saith and good works, is such: that the links of their indissoluble coherence cannot possibly (not in thought) admit any separation. Yet do you contrary to the express text of Scripture, labour a Divorce, making a Nullity of our peace towards God, albeit we die in the faith: by intruding a needless exception of joynt-workes, with which a lively faith is always in separably accompanied. Were he not worthy to be laughed out of his fools Coat, that should say the Sun doth not ripen and refresh the fruits of the earth, except his light be joined with heat? The Case is not much unlike; there being the same impossible supposition, that a Christian faith should be destitute of good works, as that the Sun should want heat. He that dieth in the faith hath not only peace with his own conscience, arising from the testimony of his godly conversation: but also peace towards God, through the merit of Christ, upon whom he solely and steadfastly relieth. This peace towards God, though it receive augmentation of certainty, and degree from works annexed; yet hath it the prime being, and fundamental Subsistence, from the virtue of the object which is apprehended.  Nick. 
He forgets Saint Paul's rule of not judging, when he takes upon him to be the Auditor of our works. If he would put on his Holiday eyes at his own home, he may happily there discover, as great penury of charitable devotion, as he layeth to our charge. You may know these Pharisaical Trumpeters, by their puffed cheeks, swollen tongues, and Rheumatic mouths: they are full of ostentation; but pluck of their sleeves, and you shall find their arms withered, and their hands as dry as the Pumicestone, which will sooner grate off the skin, then yield a drop of any comfortable moisture.  jab. 
You say your 
e Pag. 109.110.  Elect are free from the Law: If you understand it in Luther's sense, then though they commit whoredoms or murders, a thousand times a day, they need not care; the blood of Christ freeth them from the Law.  Ma. 
Luther had great reason to attribute as much to the blood of Christ, as your janissaries do to the Pardons, that are granted by the Pope. Yet is he far more sparing: he gives not encouragement to any subject, to lay violent and sacrilegious hands upon his natural, sacred, and anointed Prince, with assurance that the blood of Christ will absolve him, from all danger of the Divine Law, for so horrible a fact; according to the tenor of your immature, Sinne-kindling, and Soul-killing Indulgences. He only administereth a word of comfort in due season, to raise up distressed consciences from despair, assuring them (by the authority of our saviours Proclamation) if by true repentance, and a lively faith they come unto him their, 
f Ne formides adhuc ●●●pes reliquiest, ●uit I hanne evangelista latronum daci. Euseb. lib. 3 cap. 17  burdens shall be eased, their thirst refreshed, and their Souls freed from the condemnation of the Law. I see you have not yet left your old Spider's quality: Were you not of a venomous constitution, you would not draw so presumptuous a Conclusion from so sweet and justifiable a Cordial.  jab. 
You should understand 
g Pag 110  freedom from the Law in the Catholic sense, that the spirit of Christ maketh that yoke easy, and the burden light, that in the Spirit of love we may keep the Law with great ease, as Saint john saith: His Commandments are not hard. But I dare say your Protestant faith hath little of that Spirit, that dilateth the heart to run the way of God's precepts, that it will never be able to get up this Ladder. Let them be indeed just, let them be Saints that keep the Law.  Min. 
Quis idoneus ad haec? The Spirit I confess helpeth our infirmity: the more we grow in grace, the higher we climb; yet as long as the weight of flesh hangeth about us, there is no such facility of climbing this ladder of the law, as you plead. While we are here upon this glassy Sea, our feet are set in slippery places still subject to slide. One horse 
h Supe●a●euadere ad auras- Hoc opus, hic labor est.  will draw faster down a hill, than ten upward. But if your Saints can so easily keep the law how do they need so often confession, which was not only ordained for venial, but also for mortal sins? Is not this your supposed easiness in fulfilling the Law, the next way to make Purgatory of no use?  jab. 
Doubtless 
i Pag. 10.  the justest man falleth seven times a day: Who can say that his heart is pure from vain and impertinent thoughts? His tongue clean from idle and unprofitable speech? His hands not defiled at least with emissions in God's service? Do you see your just cannot be in this life without dust?  Ma. 
Modo ais, modo negas. What is now become of your Ladder with the steps, whereof your Catholic feet are so enured? Is all come to this, that the just are but dust? Have the justest some dross to be purged? then if ever you mean to get into Heaven, you must climb by another Ladder: by the merit and mediation of that sweet-smelling Sacrifice, without which we can never (through our own legal obedience) be advanced into the presence of God.  Nick. 
The Doctor may do well when he presents my Master with the next 
k Pref.  Purgative Salad, to add these two Ingredients, which are far better than his 
l Pag. 129  Lady's gloves; I mean the herb of grace, and the flower of jesse: He that feedeth well upon these shall not stand in need of any other Purgation; he shall be thoroughly clean.  Min. 
Though we dare not hold justification by the Law, yet do we not deny the laudable and necessary use thereof: being not only Speculum, A Looking Glass to dress our lives by; but also Spiculum, A Piercing Dart, to let out the wild blood of self-conceit. Notwithstanding, to disrobe God of his mercy, and Christ of his merit, by attributing that to the Law which belongeth to 
m S● Christ S●a Christ.  him, that is the end of the Law, we can find no reason, unless we would wilfully hinder the evangelical progress of our salvation, by labouring to be found in our own righteousness.  Ma. 
Saint Paul speaking of the former and present estate of his Corinthians, tells them how they came to be washed, sanctified, and justified: viz., not by the works which they had done, but by the name of the Lord jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.  jab. 
Thus 
n Pag. 110.111.  doth the Knight allege Scriptures for his purpose; He talks of washing and cleansing, yet had his lips still need to be purged, which he seldom wets (I fear) in the bath of tears and penance.  Nick. 
What! more Phylacteries! Have you deserved such trust as to be made of his Counsel? Our Saviour hath taught him to shut his Chamber doors, against such vainglorious spies, when he addresseth himself to his pious devotions. His tears are laid up in a bottle, that is not so full of leaks. Plenus rimarumes, ●àc & illàc diffluis.  jab. 
Is he 
o Pag. 111  not skilful at Scriptures, who apply that sentence which was spoken of gross sins, as whoredom, theft, extortion, and the like, which the Corinthians before baptism committed, and from which by baptism they were cleansed, to the daily venial offences, without which the just man doth not live.  Ma. 
Unless I have forgotten my Logic the argument follows affirmatively, from the greater to the less. If by his blood our gross sins are purged, then much more by it alone, must those that are venial be cleansed. The blood of Christ (saith Saint john) cleanseth us, ab omni peccato, from all sin, of what nature, condition or degree soever. Neither doth Saint Paul say, that 
p Lett. pag. 85.  faith is the ground of those things, that are to be suffered by ourselves; but of things to be hoped for from Christ.  jab. 
I perceive your 
q Pag 111.  Protestant faith is very weak, we must not lay any great burden on it, of things to be suffered by yourselves, lest it break; but of things to be suffered by others, as much as we will; You can easily endure that others suffer, so you be well yourselves. I do not now wonder you have rejected Fast, Pilgrimages, Disciplines, Haire-cloathes, Lying on the ground, Rising in the night, Living in perpetual Chastity, wrestling with the lusts of the flesh; Your faith is not a ground of penance, nor of any mortifications, to be undergone by yourselves.  Ma. 
Our Protestant faith needeth not your superstitious supporters, which bend in the hams, as altogether unable to bear the massy weight of the least sin. Scio cui credidi, was Saint Paul's anchor, which stayed him amidst the most tempestuous storms; he desired to know nothing but Christ jesus and him crucified. We content ourselves with his wisdom, and build upon his ground. We hold it the most beneficial Pilgrimage, for a man to travail out of the confidence, and love of himself: the best Haircloth, is the meditation of his sufferings; the best Chastity is, not to defile our souls with spiritual fornications, nor our bodies with lawless lusts. Though we hold it a necessary fruit of our Faith, to be zealous in the continual practice of prayer, fasting, Discipline, and other good works, yet doth Christian humility teach us, not to vaunt of them; and their insufficiency forbids us, to repose any trust in them. For 
r 1. Tim. 4.6.  bodily exercise profiteth nothing: The 
s Abac. 2.4.  just man liveth by his own faith.  jab. 
Christ must 
t Pag. 111.122  suffer all for you: you will not be partners with him in his passion, yet you will share with him in his comforts; You will not by your good will, have your finger ache for his love, nor taste the least drop of vinegar to purge your sinful humours, yet will you be as bold as any other, except his justice keep you back, to put your nose into the sweet cup of his glory.  Min. 
Were our resolution no better, than your charitable opinion, it were indeed no small empeachement to the solidity of our faith. But the Records of our judicial Courts, are able to silence your unmannerly Metaphor. Your bottle nose hangs so in your light, that you cannot see the numberless names of those our glorious Martyrs, who were ready not only to be bound, but to suffer the most dreadful torments, that tyranny and heresy could invent, for the faith of Christ, and testimony of a good conscience. They kissed the stake, and embraced the flames, whereby they were made conformable to the sufferings of our Saviour; Neither do I doubt but the same faith would (if occasion so required) still show itself by the like effects.  jab. 
True faith is a 
u Ibid.  ground not only of hope, but also of fear. As it teacheth us to expect a full reward, if we fulfil gods Commanndements; So likewise to be sure of heavy punishments, if we contemn them.  Min. 
If you speak of a servile fear, in regard of heavy punishments, faith leaveth that to the Law, which is the Minister of death. But admit you mean a filial sear, though it arise from faith, yet is it as a consequent of hope, from which it is necessarily derived.  jab. 
Faith is 
x Ibid.  defined the ground of things to be hoped for, not of things to be suffered by us, or of things suffered by Christ: because Christ's sufferings for us, and ours in love and imitation of him, are but means to conduct us to God, the blessed end hope aimeth at.  Ma. 
I think it would trouble Aquinas himself to distill the Quintessence of congruity, from this sentence. First, you confess that for which we we have so long contended: that faith is not the ground of things suffered by 
y Lachrymas Petri lego, satisfactionem non lego.  us. Secondly, you displace Christ's sufferings; and why? because they, in love and imitation of him, are but means to conduct us unto God. Methinks you speak very improperly, confounding the object & the effect. I would you would be your own Oedipus.  jab. 
Hope and 
z Pag. 112.  Faith being Theological virtues, have for their objects not Christ's sufferings, nor our own, but God alone; Other things faith and hope doth regard only, as they are pertinent to God.  Ma. 
If you speak of the 
a ja. 2.19.  devils faith, then indeed God alone is the object: but if you keep yourself to the faith of the Elect, (now questioned) then is Christ Crucified the immediate object, and God is the end. Are we not saved by faith in his blood? Can we come unto the Father, but by the Son? He is the brazen serpent, which the eye of Faith doth principally behold.  jab. 
My 
b Pag. 112  answers I fear are too grave, both for your head and faith: neither will the one understand, nor the other believe my discourse. I labour in vain either to build penance or Purgatory on your faith, or to beat true learning and divinity into your head.  Nick. 
Nemo suae fortunae faber. We must content ourselves with that measure of understanding, which the great Giver of his undeserved Talents, hath imparted unto us. It it is sufficient we conceive how improperly you speak, and how idly you discourse. Is the 
c Lett. pag. 86  Summer livery of everlasting life given unto us, with this Proviso, that unless we play the Tailors ourselves, and make it up by our Purgations, it must never come on our backs?  jab. 
Much do you 
d Pa. 113  fear I see, lest you be forced to play the Tailor with a Discipline, to pleasure therewith your shoulders: and out of the broad-cloath of Christ's merits, with that sharp pair of shears, to cut out a Purgatory garment for your own back.  Nick. 
No doubt you would prove a good Spinster, so well do you lengthen the course thread of this homely Allegory. The whirl of your wheeling wit casts about beyond admiration.  jab. 
S. Paul 
e Ibid.  was such a Tailor▪ he did not beat the air, but chastise his body, still carried about with him the mortifications of jesus Christ; to which participation with Christ in pain he may seem to exhort, when he bids us feel the same in ourselves, that we see in Christ jesus; who subjecteth himself to the death of the Cross.  Ma. 
He had (as he saith) the marks of his passion in his flesh, yet was he not thereby justified. It is true that one speaks of the penitent thief: Non promisit Paradisum nisi existenti in cruse. He promised not Paradise to any but to his Crosse-companion. Yet notwithstanding the torments he there endured, he was feign to come to Domine memento mei. Unless Christ had been merciful unto him, his passion had sorted to no better effect, than his fellows did. So that albeit there be necessarily required a Conformity to his death, (at least by 
f Seminemus hominibus exemplum bonum peraperta opera: Seminemus Angelis gaudium magnum per occulla sufpiria. Ber. de benedict.  penitential works) which all true Christians ought willingly to undergo, yet is it to be performed as an homage, (the reward whereof shall not through the riches of his abundant grace be unrequited) not as a satisfaction to make the least part of atonement, for the least sin; which being against an infinite majesty, cannot be expiated by any finite punishment.  jab. 
I assure 
g Pag 113.114  you that a discipline or a whipping for a quarter of an hour, would make you conceive more deeply of Christ's bitter passion, than ever did any Protestants Sermon you heard.  Nick. 
Had my Master known your mind, that you love whipping so well, he would have saved you a labour. You should not have needed to travel so far as Douai for a jerking; I dare undertake he would have taken order, that the Beadles of Bridewell should have tawed your hide to the quick, far better than any vizarded Substitute, whom your Lay-Catholiques use to hire, to lash himself before the Congregation in their stead.  jab. 
Had he 
h Ibid.  tasted any drop of the sweetness of Christ crucified, he would never have said, rejoicing in his competent patrimony, Ditescit cui Christus dulcescit: he becometh rich, to whom Christ crucified becometh sweet.  Nick. 
Now you cavil against the hair. The competency of his patrimony moved him (as he saith) to seek rather his contentation by Theological studies, than his profit by the pursuit of politic affairs. Now lest you should object, that many men are born to greater fortunes of the world than himself, he margins thus, that he hath riches enough who tasteth the sweetness of Christ; against which saying (no less pithy in sense then pleasant in the original sound) there is no cur, (unless he came of an Atheistical litter) would dare to bark.  jab. 
Many 
i Ibid.  born to greater fortunes of the world than he is, voluntarily made themselves so poor, that their only demeans was a wilderness, their palace a hole under ground, their meat fasting, their attire contemptible, their music prayer, their bed the bare ground, which life they did prefer before being kings in the world: such was the sweetness they found in Christ crucified: such joy they had to feel in themselves some little portion of that pain they beheld in him.  Nick. 
And have you learned your Cinque à pace? your phrase treads the measures notably well. Legibus non▪ exemplis 
k Non minor est virtus quam quarere parti tue●i.  vivendum. What warrant they had to deprive themselves of the means of doing good, or what account they could make unto him, who trusted them with so many talents, which they committed to the management of others, we will not debate. My answer is this. When the Pope imitates his Predecessors, leaving his Palace for a Cave, his Cope for a skin, his Triple crown for a Cap of wool, then will my Master follow these Precedents, and leave jabal to be his steward. In the mean 
l Res mihi non me rebus submittere conor.  season, as he abounds not in delicacy, so will he not hoard or misimploy his superfluity.  jab. 
They did not 
m Pag. 115.  doubt, but the garment of glory, out of the broadcloth of Christ's merits, was to be greater or lesser, according as they had more or less conformity with the crucified Son of God; Neither did they believe that God gives it to us ready made to our hands, but that those momentary and light sufferings work in us eternal weight of glory.  Ma. 
And great reason they should believe the last clause: for every man shall receive according to his works. The more good we do, the more glory, immortality, and peace shall we receive. But that the garment of Christ's sufferings is given us ready made, there was never any doubt made by any duly considerate Christian. That Oblation being made once for all, can neither be augmented nor diminished, in regard of itself, though in regard of us, the benefit is either more or less, as we believe and express the virtue of our faith, by the mortification of the flesh, and holy conversation of life. His Wardrobe affords every believer a complete rob of righteousness; he that will not take the pains to fit it to his soul, is not worthy to wear it. As we grow in grace, the warmth of this garment increaseth; The nearer we come to his sufferings, the greater shall we be in his glory, not that we deserve the least degree, but because it hath 
n Coronat nos Deus in misericordia et commiserationibus. Psal. 103. v. 4.  pleased him, for the kindling of our frozen zeal, to propound the greatest prize to the best runner: for so saith S. Paul. 
o Rom. 9.16.  Nec volentis nec currentis. It is neither in him that willeth, nor in him that runneth.  jab. 
I fear the Knight 
p Pag. 116.  plays not the Tailor aright, but cuts out of the Scripture favourable sentences for himself as this is: Blessed are those that die in the Lord, that do concern others, whose lives do not much suit with 
q Interdum vulgus recte videt, est ubi peccat. Horace.  Dives daily banqueting, as his seemeth to do. Let him take heed he find not a garment of another suit set on his back, when his Soul shall departed, more naked of good deeds out of the body, than his body of Garments unto the Grave.  Nick. 
My Master is beholding to you for your extraordinary care. But if he have not in all this time learned to play the Tailor aright, by my consent he shall not be bound Prentice to such a Butcher, who cannot teach him to thread his needle aright. When you fall once to trifling, I perceive your Vessel runs low; Purgatory is out at the elbows.  Ma. 
I would gladly hear how you answer the Knight's arguments. He disputes in this manner. 
r Lett. pag. 81.82.  The Souls in Purgatory are either punished for those sins, which Christ's blood hath wholly purged, or for those which he hath not wholly purged. If for those which Christ hath wholly purged, then there must needs be injustice in God to imprison them whose debts are fully discharged. If for sins that he hath not wholly purged, than it followeth, either that he is not the Lamb that taketh away the sins of the world; or that man's satisfaction must go hand in hand with Christ's merits.  jab. 
He butts 
s Pag 117  against Purgatories walls with his horned arguments, which if it have any force against Purgatory, will also break open the gates of hell, that the damned may come out. For what debts are they kept in prisons Doubtless for those for which Christ did offer his precious blood; which was a sufficient redemption for the sins of the world. Is God then unjust to imprison them in the dark Dungeon for ever, for whose sins Christ paid a full and rigorous ransom?  Min. 
Hath not this Dilemma brought you to a sore plunge? If you come upon either side, you are sure to be gored; wherefore to get out of the reach of both, you are feign to creep down to hell for an answer. And what is your purchase? The death of Christ, though it is sufficient for all, ex abundantia meriti: yet is it not sufficient to save all, ex defectu fidei, by reason of the want of Faith; whereby that his sufficiency of merit, is particularly to be applied. What is this to those that are in Christ, who die in the Lord?  jab. 
It is Christ's 
t Pa. 118.  holy will that in sins committed after Baptism, the whole guilt of pain be not ever forgiven, but sometimes he reserveth a convenient task of temporal pain.  Ma. 
This you speak confidently: could you prove it as sound, the day were yours. If temporal pains be reserved, how is the sin wholly forgiven? Dare you say that God, who is perfection itself, performeth the works of his mercy (which surpass all the rest) by halves? Are mortal sins with their punishments wholly remitted, and must the greatest part of those that are venial be reserved? The cause being taken away, the effect ceaseth. If the pain of mortal sins be remitted, then much more the penalty of venial slips.  jab. 
We daily 
u Pag. 119.  see and feel that punishments and penalties may remain though the sin be forgiven. What are death, hunger, thirst, and other miseries of this life, but effects of original Sin? Is not sin forgiven unto Christians in Baptism? Yet those that are baptised endure the former penalties. God pardoned DAVID'S sin: but did all temporal punishment cease together with the sin? The sin was remitted with a, But thou shalt endure these and these afflictions, because thou hast made the name of God to be blasphemed.  Min. 
These are not properly punishments proceeding from severity, but Chastisements savouring of mercy: for punishments have respect unto a person obnoxious to the Law, and to a judge not satisfied for the breach of the Law; But these are rather the effects of corrupt nature, than the 
x Tribulatio piorum non tam afflictiva, quam amoris divini declarativa, virtutis promotiva, & culpae futurae cohibitiva. Aqui.  punishments of the persons regenerate. Otherwise you must confess that the Blessed Virgin, because she died a natural death, was thereby punished for her original sin; which you will not easily be drawn to admit. Were the Child of God perfectly sanctified, as soon as he is justified, then were your objection to some purpose: but you must know that notwithstanding Sin be remitted, yet Concupiscence still remaineth; for the mortifying whereof these Chastisements are sent. As it standeth with the wisdom 
y Omnia cooperantur in bonum.  of God, to beat down this rebellious Law of our members: So is it disagreeable to his justice to 
z Ezek. 18.33.  remember any more the sins of the repentant; yea such is his goodness, that he repenteth him of the evil, that he had intended: So far is he from punishing that Sin, which he hath formerly remitted. Neither indeed is there any proportion between temporal punishment, and the sin that is committed against an infinite Majesty. As for that Chastisement which followed David's absolution, it happened, (saith Saint Augustine) ut pietas hominis in illa humilitate exerceretur: not that he might be 
a Imponit nobis poenam, non de peccato sumens supplicium, sed ad futura nos corrigens. Chrysost. Hom. de Poen.  punished, but that his godliness might be thereby proved. It was not inconvenient, that the Child should die, both in respect of David, that his watchfulness against the like sin might be increased, and others admonished: as also in regard of those that were without, that their mouths might be stopped, from blaspheming the justice of God.  jab. 
I will not 
b Pag. 119  stand to convince you out of Scriptures, nor out of Fathers, only because the Knight stands upon Athanasius, whom he calls his Arbitrator, and says that he will not afford us one syllable to save our lives: his ignorance shall receive doom by his sentence, even in that very Treatise. Thus he writeth. There is great difference betwixt Penance and Baptism: he that repenteth ceaseth to sin, but still retaineth the 
c Ergo, opera poenitentialia non sunt satisfactoria.  scars of his wound; but he that is baptised, putteth off the old man, is then renewed from heaven, and as it were borne again, by the Spirit of grace. Do you see how many syllables this Father dareth us?  Ma. 
They will scarce make a number. I see not so much as a Cipher, that can stand in your account. He neither nameth Purgatory nor any temporal punishment, after the remission of the guilt of sin. Nay he rather seemeth to dash these conceits against the wall. For if a man baptised be renewed from Heaven, and retain no scars, than the plaster of Purgatory may be cast out upon the dunghill, as of no use to those, that continually make their repair, by a thirsting faith, to those waters of comfort. Observe I pray you how strangely you go to work. You have made a great show of exhorting us unto penance, and now you bring in Athanasius affirming, that he that repenteth, still retaineth the scars of his wound. Time was when you could say, In this 
d Pag. 115  penal Martyrdom, (namely the perpetual victory of ourselves) if you continue unto death in the true Catholic Church, I dare warrant you both from Hell and Purgatory, and grant you an immediate passage unto Heaven. How comes it now to pass, that notwithstanding this penal Martyrdom, there are scars and wounds still remaining? May we be admitted to pass into Heaven immediately, without these eyesores in our souls? You should rather for the effectuating of your purpose, have produced Saint 
e Lib. de poeni.  Augustine's Panigyrick, Poenitentia langueres sanat, Leprosos curate, Mortuos suscitat. Or that of 
f De Laud. poen. Cum homo compungitur Peccatum dispungitur.  Cyprian: O poenitentia quid de te novi referam. Omnia ligata tu soluis: Omnia clausa tu reseras: Omnia contrita tusanas: Omnia confusa tu lucidas, etc. You speak of the Scars very unseasonably in my mind.  Min. 
These Holy Fathers may be easily reconciled. Athanasius speaks of Penance solely considered in itself, according to the work wrought: and in this sense, though a man give his body to be burned, to satisfy for the sin of his soul, the scar of his sin still remaineth. The other two speak of Penance, not as it is opposed to Baptism, but as it is conjoined and made operative by the virtue thereof; from whence the life and vigour of repentance is derived. So that Athanasius says well, that unless a man be renewed from Heaven, and be borne again by the Spirit of grace, his penance how great soever, cannot do away the scars of his wound.  jab. 
I see not 
g Pag. 120  what else can be imagined to remain after penance, and not after Baptism, besides the guilt of temporal pain, which we must willingly undergo, to satisfy for the sins after Baptism: which scars and wounds, if we heal not in this life by plasters of penance, they must be scared in the next by Purgatory fire.  Nick. 
Then must you be sure to have a turn in torrida Zona; for Athanasius tells you, that notwithstanding your penance, you must still retain the scars of your wounds. Your better way were to fly to the waters of jordan, where you shall be sure to have your leprosy fully cured, then to trust to your own penal satisfactions. Now (if you love me) meddle no more with my Master's Arbitrator; if you do, your Comb will be soon cut.  Ma. 
'tis well he will now at length confess that the guilt of temporal pain remaineth not after Baptism. It is not a quarter of an hour, since he was of a contrary mind. Then 
h Pag. 119  death, hunger, thirst, and other miseries, were the penalties of original sin, forgiven unto Christians in Baptism. Now he 
i Pag. 120  sees not what else can be imagined to remain after penance, and not after Baptism, besides the guilt of temporal pain. But that the day wears away, I would be bold to ask him this question: whether the virtue of Baptism be not as great, throughout the whole life of a Christian, as it is at that moment, when it is administered? I will not so much undervalue his sincerity, as to fear his denial. I dare say he will not make the Sacrament of Regeneration less beneficial unto us, than the Mother Earth was unto her Son Antaeus. As oft as he in the conflict with Hercules touched the earth, his strength was renewed; and as oft as we bathe our Souls in those medicinable waters by a Religious application of the blood of Christ, we are assured of the remission of our sins, as well as if we were at the instant baptised, in that purifying Laver. So that the guilt of temporal pain doth no more remain, after the pious application, than it did after the first initiation; Christ and his ordinances being the same, Yesterday, to day, and for ever. The cause taken away, the effect ceaseth.  jab. 
This your 
k Ibid.  Logical Axiom faileth in a thousand examples. The Son is an effect of the 
l Causasociata.  Father: Cannot he live though his Father be dead? The fire causeth heat, yet we see that heat doth remain long time after the fire is put out. That Principle is only true, when not only the first being of the effect dependeth on the cause but also the conservation thereof: as the light of the Sun, which the Sun doth not only bring forth, but also conserve, vanisheth away together with the same.  Nick. 
As I am a true Aristotelian, I heard him not speak so wise a word this day: The Son who is an effect of the Father may live, 
m Quatenus homo non quatenus filius.  though his Father be dead. And yet in these days, filius pendet à patre in esse & conseruari; or else they would go for the most part in thread▪ bare coats.  Min. 
We doubt not but the Axiom admits many exceptions, by reason of the divers properties of causes, some being efficient, some material, some formal, and some final. Amongst Efficients, some permanent, some transient, some principal, some instrumental, some conservant etc. Yet must you not wind away with your Sophistry: There is a certain Cause called, Causa solitaria proxima adaequata, of which sort is Sin, in regard of punishment; for if the question be why man is punished, it cannot possibly but be conceived, that it is 
n Ideo multi infirmi, & c- 1. Cor. 11.30 Miseros facit homines peccatum. Pro. 14.34. vir pro peccato suo. Thren. 3. v. 39  because man hath offended, or else if the punishment be without cause, it should be without justice.  jab. 
Punishment indeed 
o Pag. 120  is the effect of sin: nothing but sin could produce that guilt in our soul; yet when it is once in the soul, the conservation dependeth on the will of God. It cannot cease, but when, and in what manner he will have it cease.  Min. 
unius 
p Zabardib. de med. dem.  effectus non est nisi una causa proxima. When you prove that it is the will of God to reserve some part of the penalty, after the remission of sin, then will we confess your Axiom. But take heed, lest while you coin a new Will, you deface his old justice, which was ever consonant to his truth. Whensoever he said, fides tua te saluum fecit, the bed was presently taken up. Sin no more lest a worse thing befall thee, shows there was no fear of smart for the former sin. The impulsive Cause being removed, the effect ceased; for God comes not with any willing desire, but as it were by compulsion to inflict punishment upon the Model of his own Image, which he hath repaired at so high a price. We deny not but his 
q Pag. 121.122  wisdom hath thought it fit, (in regard of the succession of our daily sins) for his honour, and our profit, to enable us to do some part of penance ourselves, by the help of his grace: that so we might conceive more deeply the malice of sin, and God's hatred against it; as also that we might more carefully for the time to come avoid sin. But that God should require the debt, which he hath formerly canceled: or that man's greatest penance can satisfy his justice, for the least transgression, we desire further reason to believe.  Ma. 
The question is not touching penance for the procuring of pardon for sins not remitted, but whether it sort most with God's will, for his own glory and our profit, that we should be tormented with Purgatory flames, or be freely and absolutely delivered. It cannot be more for our behoof, seeing the souls departed are not in via, to receive any merit by their sufferings: Neither can it suit so well with his grace, (upon which his glory is especially reared) seeing that the more remission is scanted, the more is the lustre of his abundant grace lessened. Wherefore it is no less than extreme folly, to dream of more means of expiation, when fewer (yea the 
r Non deficit in ●cessar●s nec abun●at in superfluis.  alone passion of Christ) will 
s Aeque bene.  altogether as well serve the turn.  Nick. 
If there be such necessity of Purgatory, me thinks you should agree upon the place; whether it be under the Earth, or in the Air. 
t Pag. 125.  Quod ubique nullibi. It is in so many places that indeed it is in no place.  jab. 
This is the Knight's 
u Pag. 125.126  onset by which he seeks to beat Purgatory out of the World. But the Captain Maior of his argument, if it be true, is able to beat God into nothing, who cannot be conceived without Immensity, or a being every where. But taking your Proposition in the best sense, to wit, that the thing might be justly thought not to be, which learned men cannot tell certainly and determinately where it is, yet is the impiety thereof exceeding great. Do not Divines disagree about the place of the Soul, after separation from the body? About the part of the world where God showeth himself to his Saints? May one thence infer, Quod ubique nullibi? Do not learned Christians likewise dissent about the Situation of Hell?  Ma. 
You might have well annexed to your inference, Ass for example: Primus motor was ever exempt from the Confines both of Predicaments, and Physical Axioms. You should have done well to have given us some sublunary instance, then would we have applauded your wit. The meanest Grammar-Schollar hath, Enter presenter Deus hic & ubique potenter, at his finger's ends.  Min. 
As for Hell, though Learned men exactly know not the site thereof, yet doth the word of God plainly teach, that there is a Hell, and in some sort it shadoweth the torments thereof; so that we are tied to a necessity of belief. Neither are Learned men so much to study where it is, as to take heed they come not there. But as for Purgatory, it is neither averred nor described in the Map of God's word, wherefore we have reason to suspect the being thereof: and the rather, because the first Founders could not agree where to seat the foundation of it. Must God therefore be beaten into nothing, if a man say that feigned Purgatory is no where? Take heed least from a Papist, you turn Atheist. Such examples savour of little Religion, and less fear of God. I hope we may boldly say it is nullibi, when the Scripture concludes it to be nus quam.  Nick. 
Such Atheistical inferences may chance make him feel where Hell is, ere he be aware. If he will follow my counsel, he shall either get some Ellebore to purge his brains, or a warm nightcap to keep in his wits.  Ma. 
The Knight puts him a question touching the 
x Lett. pag. 50  middle rank of offenders, who shall survive at the coming of Christ, when Purgatory shall be clean extinct; whether they shall be saved without further Purgation? Which if he grant, then must he admit partiality in the judge, in affording them more favour, than those who daily departed this life. If he deny it, then must he tax the Lord of unjustice in denying the means of purgation unto them, which he hath always afforded to those of their rank. But the Doctor hath no great maw to touch either of these horns.  Nick. 
Well, we had need of a 
y Saepe etiam est olitor verba opportuna locutus.  Moderator to close this act. I trust he will make us amends for his dry, melancholy, and lifeless discourse, with more pleasant and delightful passages, in the maintenance of his grand Miracles, from which Purgatory hath had her best patronage. The Sun will leave us, and therefore Doctor, if you mean we should see you open the budget of your juggling feats, you must be nimble-handed; we have reason look at last for a fit of mirth.   

CHAP. V Lipsian Miracles morterized.  jab. 
NO where 
a Pag. 127  doth the Knight show his profaneness more, then in scoffing at the Miracles of our blessed Lady of Hall registered by Lipsius, which he derides in sorude a manner, as it may well seem he did both read Lipsius his story, and write his own Letter, roasting Crabs by the fire side.  Ma. 
Had not your lips hung in your light, you might have easily discerned the difference, which he putteth between the counterfeit Image, & the glorious person of our blessed Lady. If you mean to make good your injurious censure, you must take some pains to resolve the Christian world, (which you seek to delude with these miracles) how the same blessed Virgin can be simul et semel, at one and the same time, at Hall, at Sichem, and in Heaven. One body cannot be at one time in more places than one. Some of your Church (I confess) hold the contrary of Christ's body; but who ever (saving yourself) thought so of the body of the blessed Virgin?  Nick. 
I have heard that the Lady at Hall hath a sharper nose, a thinner lip, and a quicker eye, than she that is worshipped at Sichem: who is much broader visaged, and more corpulent than the other; travelers will hardly believe they are sisters, so unlike is their feature. Is it possible for one body to be so unlike itself? you must first agree which of them is our Lady, and then the other shall be ever after held as her waiting-woman, which will be no disparagement at all. Unless you have authority from the Pope to dub as many Ladies as you list, it is but folly to say they are Ladies both; this patent if you could show, O how welcome a man would you be to our Chamber-Necessaries. All the pretty Lasses would flock to Doctor jabal, yet for your life should you not give them all content. Madam Susan would pout, that my Lady Winifred must take the wall. She hopeth she hath 
b Pag. 136  stopped as many mustard-pots, as her Ladyship for her heart. Here would be old revel-rowt.  jab. 
Such profaneness 
c Pag. 116.  and want of religion doth the Knight show in his perpetual jesting at Miracles, which confirm any point of religion, especially this of Purgatory, which he termeth such grave Miracles, that it would make a horse break his halter to see them: and in the margin he says, Yea Bellarmine's devout Mare; which his wanton Hobby named only to beget a fool on her.  Nick. 
Now is your wit fallen within the Circumference of my Element. In all your runagate travels, knew you ever a Hobby to beget a foal on a Mare? and yet I must say it is more probable, then that your Phoenix Garnet should beget a face on a Straw.  Ma. 
If Bellarmine's devout Mare did ever carry a fool, it was (as your own stories report) unto the Mass.  jab. 
He 
d Ibid.  might better have turned his Hobby lose to Balaams' Prudent Ass, where perchance he might have learned this point of wisdom, that there is a God whom even bruit beasts feel, and in their manner serve and adore, who is able when he pleaseth to make them bray more wisely than you do speak.  Ma. 
It seems you have some command over the silly creature which you so willingly name. You may do well seeing his Master is dead, to lead him to Rome. I know no Prelate fit to ride him then your Pope. Sure I am there doth none more often curse God's people than he.  Min. 
I see no reason why one may not as well say, that the sight of your Miracles would make a horse break his halter, as that 
e Pag. 137.  john Clement broke his doublet in pieces by a Miracle.  jab. 
Lipsius doth 
f Pag. 127.  elegantly and religiously relate a miracle, concerning a Falconer delivered from death, by the Lady of Hall her merciful intercession; which the Knight or his Minister doth mar with reeling and lettering phrases. His 
g ●g. 102  Lord swore by no beggars that he would make him look through a halter, if he found not the Falcon, etc. Thus doth he play the Summist of Lipsius.  Ma. 
That he wrote elegantly no man denies; the question is, whether his wit might not have been better employed then in playing the Scummist of Ovid's Metamorphosis. It was your cunning in a desperate cause to abuse his eloquence, to the bombasting of your forged and incredible fopperies. Were it not more for the quaintness of his style, than the truth of his Miracles, his leaves would be soon turned to the glovers disposing.  Min. 
It was a heavy judgement of God upon him for his Apostasy, that in his old age he should put his pen to sale, and prostitute the beauty of his wit, to the boulstring of such idolatrous and Commentitious trumperies.  jab. 
Yet I 
h Pag. 128.  wonder the Knight omitted a story which followed in the same Chapter with john Swickius, to wit, about another Protestant Swaggerer john Rysselman, who reviling that blessed Lady, swearing that he would take her town and burn her picture, publicly in Brussels strooken with a Bullet, lost the best tongue in his head, the best chin in his face; and not long after yielded up (though a bad one) yet the best soul in his body.  Nick. 
You say right, they are both birds of a 
i Crimine ab uno disce omnes.  feather, and therefore deserve to fly together: but the truth is, one hair is too much in a pen; though Lipsius was so regardless of his credit, as to add the full period to that Chaos of untruths, yet was my Master's pen so bashful, that it was hardly drawn so much as to mention th'one, so far was he from relating the other; especially at the second hand. He that will venture upon a lie shall show little wit, unless he be the prime inventor; the first Author may gain some of that credit, by the quaintness of his invention, which he loseth by the incredibility of his fabulous assertion. It stood with Lipsius his policy to balance his fictions, that so they might seem to carry the even weight of truth. Had not Rysselman been put in the other scale, Swickius his miracle had gone to the ground.  Ma. 
Why may not this miracle of Risselman be as true, as that of our Lady at Lucca in Italy? There was a witty Lad that had lost all his Counters at Mum chance, & having no means to renew his stock, he bethought himself of this stratagem: He goes out into the backside, & as if he had been one of the forlorn hope throws his dice in the face of our Lady's Image that stood there in the Town-wall; immediately by a nimble slight which he had formerly gotten, he wreaths his arm backward, & comes in all a mort, as if he had lost the use of his best cheating instrument. After some few days he returns, as one that had been stricken with remorse, and prayeth before the Lady (you must imagine she did wink for fear of the like cast) and lo; his arm was 
k She was glad to be rid of ●h dangerous mates  instantly restored. The rumour hereof being blazed abroad as far as Rome, Pope Clement the eighth takes order, to have the image removed (for this notable piece of service) into the Church. Will you hear what followed? This juggler the first founder of this erection, was well greased by those of the Church with the oil of Argent, and slides away to the trial of other fortunes. But it was not long before his pictures had lost all their faces; his coin was not so fraudulently gotten, but it was as riotously spent, whereupon being driven to an exigent, he turns 
l Vltimum, saltem penultimum re●●gium.  tapster (I had almost said hangman) in an Inn at Poggio Bunchi, between Florence and Sienna. As God would have it, there came into that hostelry, certain 
m Sr. Tho. chaloner. Mr. Tho. Aw●ley.  noble Country men of ours, when my new fill-pot was more than halfe-seas over: being then in his jollity, he breaks out (amongst other panegyrical narrations of his quicksilver wit) to tell with what lucky success he had gulled the inhabitants of Lucca, and how much our Lady's image was beholding unto him, for her warm winter standing; which made the Gentlemen so much mirth, that for that time they thought they might well spare the fiddlers company.  Nick. 
Well far your heart; you have now paid him interest enough for the forbearance of Rysselman; story, which is no way comparable to this.  Min. 
Is it not a wondrous 
n Apud veteres miracula pro monsiris atque ●orreadis sumuntur. Donat.  miracle that Rysselman a Soldier, should be shot through the cheeks with a bullet in a skirmish? forsooth it was for swaggering with the wooden Image of our Lady. I had thought the blessed Virgin had long ago learned this lesson of her son: to forgive her enemies; to pray for them that revile her; and not to shoot bullets through their cheeks; to cut out their tongues; and strike off their noses. If this relation be true, your Lady of Hall is a hardhearted Saint. Had the Carver so little choice, that he must needs make her of such a knotty piece? Did not Lipsius a good days work think you, when he thus stained her reputation? we took her all this while for a kind wench, good at a dead lift. I am verily persuaded your Historian did more harm to that Saint with his pen, than the Image did to Risselmans' nose with the shot. If you tell us whether the Image were Master Gunner, or the Gunner's Mate, under whose Colours, and in what rank it did serve, we will give way for fear of a bloody nose.  jab. 
I much 
o Pag. 128  doubt whether the aforenamed Rysselman, or that famous 
p His heresy was more directly against the personal & hypostatical union of her son, whose two natures he divided  Nestorius, an Archenemie of God's mother, which both miraculously lost their tongues for blasphemy against her, did more deserve that penal forfeiture than the Knight hath done, who sticketh not to term the glorious Queen of Angels, whose miracles Lipsius doth profess to write, the mother of God, as her picture with the King of the world in her arms doth witness, a kind wench, good at a dead lift, which soundeth of a more foul blasphemy, than ever any heretic before dreamt of.  Ma. 
We believe that the blessed Virgin Mary is at rest in the kingdom of heaven: we acknowledge her to be the Mother of God; though no Goddess, nor Queen of Angels, yet a glorious Saint; though no Saviour, nor Mediatrix, yet worthy of all love, reverence and imitation. Our souls with hers 
q Luc. 1▪ 47  rejoice in God our Saviour. But as for this lifeless Image, we know not whence it is. It may represent one of the Pope's Concubines, for aught we can say to the contrary. 
r Psal. 135.18  They that make them are like unto them, and so are all they that put their trust in them.  Nick. 
As sure as we live, Lipsius was not his craft's master; had he no stranger news to tell us, then that a Soldier lost his nose valiantly in the field, with an Instrument of war? When all was done, the Image had as dull sent as he. If the truth were known, I believe there is many a one in Hall, even amongst the devout Marianists, who hath lost the best ornament of his face in a worse quarrel, and in a more dishonourable service. If Rysselman had spoken in the nose, I should have liked it worse.  jab. 
Merciful 
s Pag. 129  Lord in what a drunken age do we live, that such foul blasphemies against God's mother may pass to the print? that such witnessed testimonies of Gods infinite power (which had they been done in Tirus and Sidon would perhaps have joined them to have done penance in Sackcloth) may be blasphemed, derided, and rejected, even in print, as lewd lies, incredible falsehoods, without any syllable of proof or reason in the World, but only because they list not to believe them.  Ma. 
You do well to cry unto the Lord for mercy, for were you well in your 
t They were long since drowned in the red Sea at Claretto.  wits, you would not dare to publish in print, that the wooden Idol of Hall is the blessed mother of God. Had you not a cup too much, you would not parallel Lipsius his lying fables with our saviours sacred Miracles. Had Simon Magus lived in Lipsius his days, it would have been a question, whether Simon Peter or he had been the better man. Elimaes would have been a gay subject for his 
u Omnia commutat sise in miracula rerum.  flying pen. I would advise you to consider (if your considering Cap be not at pawn) whether you do not more dishonour the Blessed Virgin then the jews; they defy her, you deify her. I will say unto you as Solomon said unto his Mother touching Adoniah. 
x 1. Reg. 2.22  Why dost thou ask this for the Virgin? Ask for her the Kingdom also. The time will come, when you shall 
y Apoc. 16.10 11. etc. 9.20 Abac. 2.19  gnaw your tongues for sorrow, who worship Idols of Gold, of silver, of brass, of stone, and of wood, which can neither see, hear, nor go.  jab. 
These miracles 
z Pag. 129  which may seem like the herb called our Lady's gloves, adorn her Virginal hands, signs they are of her wedding to the eternal King, and of her being crowned 
a jer. 44.17  Queen of Heaven and Earth.  Nick. 
Her Virginal hands never taught Lipsius to strike that key, which makes the worship of God sound so much out of tune, even in the ears of the jews. He is a very simple Musician, that cannot make such jacks as you skip, according to the motion of his fingers. So he make a sound, you care not how much he neglect the Chords of truth.  jab. 
Lipsius whom you revile was like the Swan, whose dying notes are sweetest; He crowned his famous writings with a History of her miraculous stories, and hung up before her Altar his renowned pen▪ the wing of his wit, the flight whereof made him 
b Admiratio ab ignorantia descendit Donat.  admirable in his age.  
Our Lady's gloves about his forehead wreath,  
That no foul mouth dare on this Author breath.  Nick. 
Had I been his Herald, he should have borne a Lady cow for his Crest; It had been a fit Emblem for a fair outside. Though his pen made him admirable in his age, yet did his 
c Dumque moror mirorque simul fugit omnis in undas.  miraculous lies make him ridiculous in his dotage.  

d Suspendit calamum Marianae Lipsius arae- Suspendi meruit, etc.  Well did his pen deserve to hang at Mary's Altar,  
But of the twain himself did best deserve the halter:  
He best deserved the whetstone for his lying,  
That could not leave the trade-when he was dying.  Ma. 
When Lipsius wrote, did he sit, stand, kneel or lean?  
He did lie most, that's flat, witness his last Scene.  Min. 
Then I see you mean not to die in jabals' debt for an Epigram. In am of his Lady's gloves you have returned him a Cow, with two pretty Calves by her side. Lipsius' will never be dead as long as they live.  jab. 
Among many 
e Pag. 130  devices the enemy of Mankind hath set abroach in this age, to infect the world with Irreligion and Atheism, none seemeth to me more potent, than the denial of miracles, together with those shifts which Heresy hath invented, to discard those both of ancient & fresh memory, which please not your taste.  Ma. 
That it doth so seem unto you, seems not strange unto us, who do assure ourselves of your forwardness, in advancing the state and dignity of your grand Bel-peor. The point is, whether our Saviour, his Apostles, and the Fathers of the Church held the denial of your upstart Lapsian miracles such a potent means, to infect the World with Atheism and Irreligion? If you will be tried by these, hold up your 
f Ecce purissimas meas manus Praeceptor, quoth the boy with the scabbed fingers.  hand? A match. Doth not Moses 
g Deut. 13.2.6  forbidden us to judge of the Doctrine by miracles? Saith he not that if any man shall give us a sign or a wonder which he told of should come to pass, yet we must not hearken unto him, if he once say, Come and let us go serve other Gods? The 
h jer. 23  Prophet complains in the person of Almighty God, against these miraclemongers, Seduxerunt populum meum in mendacijs suis, & in miraculis suis. Our Saviour 
i Mat. 24. v. 23.24.25  forewarneth us not to believe such. For there shall arise false Christ's, and false Prophets, and they shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch that if it were possible they shall deceive the very Elect. Saint 
k 2. The. 2.9.10  Paul prophetically averreth, that the coming of the man of sin shall be after the working of Satan, with all powers and signs, and lying wonders: And with all deceiveableness of unrighteousness in them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved. And that for this cause, God shall send strong Delusion, that they should believe a lie. What greater contrariety can be imagined then there is between your position, and these textual verities?  Min. 
The Ancient Fathers have likewise joined their forces in the same Encounter. Doth not Saint 
l In Mat. h●. 49  Chrysostome manacle these Quacksalvers for playing their Leger-de-main tricks? Per signacognoscebatur (saith he) qui essent veri Christiani, qui falsi. Nunc autem signorum operatio omnino levata est; magis autem invenitur apud eos qui falsi sunt Christiani. Saint 
m De Civit. Dei. lib. 22. cap. 8  Augustine makes a monster of him who doth now desire wonders, for the kindling of his faith, after so clear a demonstration of evangelical miracles. Contraistos Mirabiliarios (saith 
n In johan. tract. 13.  he) cautum me fecit Deus meus. My God hath armed me against such. To what end doth he say, Behold I have told you before, but that his Spouse should not be entrapped with such Sophistical miracle,? Yea, he blasteth both Lipsius and his Shrine, with a 
o Aug. de unit. Eccles. cap. 19  Removeantur, Away (saith he) with this gear, 
p Miracula fiut aliquaado humana procuratione, aliquando diabolica operatione. Al. Hale. Quast. 53. Art. 3  which is either the juggling of deceitful men, or the Illusion of lying Devils. It is in my opinion the next way to make men Atheists, to see Papists so much distrust the efficacy of the word, and the solidity of evangelical truths, that they are every day driven to seek new supporters of their faith, which they easily discern to be hammered by the hand of fraud.  jab. 
As no 
q Pag. 130  age since the Creation hath been without profane fellows, prone to deny God's providence over mankind, to jest and scoff at his servants; so likewise the same providence hath not permitted any age to pass without Miracles and marks of his power, keeping the impious in awe by punishments, miraculously inflicted upon their mates, and comforting his true worshippers, with extraordinary favours and benefits bestowed on them above nature's reach.  Ma. 
What authority you have to Canonize them, that worship your Lady of Hall, for true worshippers, (as your supposition intendeth) we will not dispute. It would put you to a plunge to prove Image-worshippers true worshippers. Christ 
r joh. 4.23 Dam medium lunae Solem simul & canis iram.  saith that the true worshippers shall worship the Father in Spirit and truth: and not the Mother of Hall in stock or stone. Not to stand upon this; I do not see how you can excuse your presumption, in adventuring to teach the 
s A posse ad esse non sequitur argumentum.  Almighty, how he should awe the impious, and comfort his servants. The state of the Church were in a lamentable case; if there were no other means for the producing of these effects, besides the working of new 
t Miracula persequentes fugiunt, fugientes persequuntur. Aeneas Silvius.  miracles. The persecutors of God's people may be stricken with terror, when they hear the success which Pharaoh, Antiochus, Senacharib, Herod, and the rest had. If with the Adder they stop their ears against these; neither would they believe, though an Angel should come with a fiery sword from Heaven. The Lord is able by his secret judgements, to prevent their malice, and confound their devices. The patience which he giveth unto his servants is a miracle which more astonisheth their Enemies, and addeth a greater measure to their own glorious reward, then if they were rescued by a miraculous supply. To you that desire fire and bullets, to strike off the noses of your Enemies, I may say with our Saviour in the like case. Nescitis cuius spiritus sitis.  jab. 
In what 
u Pag. 131  age since the coming of Christ hath either piety more needed a spur, or impiety a curb, then in this we live in? The Wolf is said to be so stiffnecked and greedy of his prey, that he never looketh back, but when thunderclaps from Heaven affright him. When did such a troop of stiffnecked Wolves, void of conscience and fear of God, range so uncontrouledly over the Christian World, as now they do, though in the clothing of sheep, vested with the name of Christians?  Nick. 
Doctor you mistake; the proximity of the right object dulls your sense. They bear the names of jesuits, and Seminary Priests, that pluck the skin over the ears of the Lords sheep. These were those ravenous Wolves, who gaped so wide in the year eighty eight, that it was thought this whole Island would scarce have 
x Non missura cutem nisi plena cruoris hirudo.  stopped their mouths. The Parisian Massacre, and the Gunpowder 
y Soevire in sui● genus plus quam belluinum.  Treason are sufficient witnesses of their boundless cruelty. That they were prevented and subverted, they will not say it was a miracle; yet did they find and feel to their cost, that the hands of God were not bound. The thunderclap of God's just▪ vengeance, turned back their Antichristian adherents, and frustrated their Satanical designs. If you long so much after wonders, here is matter of undeniable admiration. This was the Lords doing, and it is wonderful in our eyes.  jab. 
The stiffest-necked 
z Pag. 1●2  Wolves, the profanest Heretics, when they hear the miracles done in the Church so great and so witnessed, as those we stand upon are, I make no doubt but sometimes they tremble, and though they set a good face on the matter, yet their hearts pant in their breasts. These perchance may be melancholy fits, that Lipsius his story caused in the Knight's breast, which to drive away, he read his Book roasting Crabs by the fire side, with a pipe of Tobacco in his hand, still calling for more wine,  Ma. 
The miracles that were done in the true Church, serve undoubtely for the terror of all profane persons in future ages. This was the aim of their exhibition Their number, evidence, and sufficiency was such, that where they are published, they need not be renewed. Where the miracles of jesus be neglected, Saint-miracles will not be much regarded. But whether yours bear the same impress with those, that is further to be debated.  Nick. 
I should account it no small wonder, if jabal would once learn to speak truth. Doth my Master say, that Lipsius his story drove him into a melancholy fit? He delivers the contrary; that if a man were in a melancholy fit, Lipsius were as good as a Crab feast in a winter's night; better than a thousand Sir john Mandevils, to pass away the time with mirth in grain. What will he not wonder at who makes so strange, that a man holds a Tobacco pipe in his hand? If he had held it in his foot, that had been more worthy the noting. And yet if john Clement had been prescribed that Physic 
a Pag 137  his feet being turned (by a monstrous composition) towards the forepart of his breast, he had been as like to have used his toes as his fingers in that service. Had it been but for Lipsius' sake, he might have swallowed the smoke of his tobacco jest. 'tis well known that he used many a pipe, in the penning of his holy book. jabal is of their humour, who will rather lose their friend then their jest; but if he could as thoroughly leave his fiction, as my Master hath that Indian fumigation, his book would have had fewer leaves, and his leaves less lines.  jab. 
I would wish 
b Pag. 132.  when his smiling sobriety hath gotten a more stayed countenance, he would in sober sadness set down, what condition or witnesses are required to make a history credible, which of the conditions do fail in Lipsius' relation; In what other histories they are found, if they want in his.  Ma. 
Since you take upon you this Priestly gravity to catechize him, that hath more learning and sobriety than his examiner, I will in his stead (though none of your parochial charge) yield you an account of my faith in this point.  Min. 
Let me be so bold as to save you that labour; when he moved the question, he looked wistly upon me. He hath a spi●e at the 
c Pag. 123.  Minister's pen and the Minstrels pipe, neither am I unwilling to interrupt my intended silence. To make a true miracle, there are these necessary requisites; first the fact must be 
d  illud quod sit, ● solo Deo sicri posset. Oliver Maillard. Serm. de Conuers. Pauli.  rarum, arduum, & insolitum, unusual and above the common or ordinary course of nature: cum in natura nulla sit dispositio propinqua ad susceptionem illius formae. Secondly, it must be done by the Almighty power of God in the name of 
e Act. 4. ●0. 30 Mar. 16.17. Ac. 3.6.  Christ. Thirdly the end thereof must be to confirm true 
f john 5.36. john 17.4.  doctrine, to draw men to believe in God's word, and to ascribe unto him all spiritual worship and glory. Fourthly it must be 
g Mat. 12.33. & 16.1. &. 11.4.5.  openly done, there must be neither deceptio visus, nor fascinatio sensus. Lastly it must serve rather for Infidels than believers, to gain their assent to the truth of the word; to which purpose the Apostle saith, that tongues are for a sign, 
h 1. Cor. 14.22  not to the faithful, but to the unbelieving.  jab. 
Which of these conditions 
i Pag. 132.  do fail in Lipsius his relations?  Ma. 
Nay rather which of them can he produce to patronize his fables? his miracles do all savour of a Cretian forge. To instance in the example which you think Sobriety cannot deride; When I consider the miracle of the Falcon, it seems to me half a miracle, that any Christian Master should be so heathenish, nay more, so savagely brutish, as to hang his man for so small a escape, as the losing of a Hawk, having no evidence to the contrary, but that the bird took flight without his Lure or leave. Was his Lord a Catholic? then much may be; Yet wise men make a doubt whether the Laws of his Country would permit such cruelty. We must also believe that his Falconer was of a mild spirit, so patiently to submit himself to the hangman's courtesy. One would have thought his Master should have taken some pity on him, before the Lady of Hall had sent him the Hawk. We dare not say the Master and man might be trimtram and confederate, in the effecting of this miracle. Yet I hope we may without offence ask what there was more in this miracle, than was in Mahomet's Pigeon, which in the People's sight would fly to his ear, because he had accustomed there to feed her with corn.  Min. 
Were Lipsius his miracles wrought in the name of Christ, jabal were more praiseworthy for standing in their defence. But Mary carries away the Bell, I mean her supposed Image, which though it have a mouth was never heard yet to pray. Perhaps she learned this lesson of S. Bernard, not to speak in the Congregation. So that your dumb Virgin doing these wonders, neither in the name of jesus, nor by prayer, is no less than a forestaller of divine glory, which the Lord hath protested he will not give to 
k Psalm. 42.8.  graven Images. And what are the Doctrines which your Hall wonders serve to confirm? are they not Culinarian Theorems which they strive to support? Forsooth they are the buttresses of Purgatory, Transubstantiation, Worshipping of Images, Prayer for the dead, and of that divine honour, which is sacrilegiously ascribed to the Virgin Mary. Say we not truly that these are the doctrines of Devils? Can it stand with common sense, to give that adoration to carved images, which the most glorious Angels refused? or rather, is it not most apparent that their miracles are the signs of the Antichristian beast?  Nick. 
That which is most worth the noting is this, that all your Lady's prodigies are wrought in angulo, where but few, and those selected are assembled. Seldom shall you read that their spirits spoke, or that their Images came down 
l Non qui mira sed qui male agit odit lucem loan. 3.30.  by day. S. 
m Greg. dial. lil. 1. ca 4.  Equitius was gelded by an Angel in his sleep. The Maid that crushed the Devil between her teeth in the Lettuce, had no other witness in her mouth, besides her tongue, unless happily she had a little Embryo in her womb. I do not well remember, whether Ignatius Layola did in the day or in the night, open the obstructions of the wench that was troubled with the stone. He was a Soldier, and therefore perhaps durst do more than ordinary in the day. This I am sure of, I could never hear yet by any credible report what tune it was, which S. 
n Fasciculus temporum de anno. 754.  Gingoffs wife did sing with her nether-lippes; whether voluntary, Salengers round, or Hunts-up. jabal is a good physician, his nose would have been as good as a Recorder to have borne a part; and then his tongue would have made a more certain relation, than the Carmelite doth.  Ma. 
A man would hardly believe that there were in the Catholic town of Hall so many Infidels, as Lipsius by his multiplicity of miracles would make the world believe. Were not the greatest part unbelievers, those many miracles would be altogether superfluous. Wherefore seeing your Lady's miracles are defective in all, and every of these conditions which give essence to a true miracle, their motto may be this. Dea picta, Miracula ficta. So that we may say unto you, as S. 
o Aug. count Faustum lib. 13.  Augustine spoke unto the Manichyes. Miracula non facitis, quae si faceretis, tamen ipsain vobis caveremus. And no marvel, for either the Sacrist, which is the veriest knave you can get, plays his part in the Vestry, or else some beggarly fellow iumbles under the Eaves of the Church.  jab. 
In what 
p Pag. 132.  other histories are they found, if they want in Lipsius?  Min. 
In the histories of Moses, the Prophets, the four Evangelists, and the Acts of the Apostles, We 
q Pet. 1.19.  have a most sure word, to the which you shall do well to take heed. This word (saith the 
r Heb. 2. ●. 4  Apostle) at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him. God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the holy Ghost. So much of Christ's miracles and doctrine is written in the holy Scriptures, that we 
s john 20.31.  might believe that jesus is the true Christ, the son of God, and that believing in him we might have eternal life. What can we desire more? What need is there of Goody Hals miracles? doth the spirit of God purposely omit many of our saviours miracles? and may we plead the necessity of Hals wonders? Are not those that are written sufficient, or rather, are not yours superfluous? If your Lipsianists may be believed, the dead Image of the Mother hath doubled the miracles of her living Son.  jab. 
Lipsius doth 
t Pag. 132.133.  protest that he read the Gests and Records, out of which he chose those which he judged most worthy of the print; Will not all men (saith he) believe these things, done in the sight of many, confirmed by sworn witnesses, etc. If any man after such inquiry, be not moved to believe such credible histories, I may apply that unto him of Homer.  
Thou hast ears to hear, that wants both wit and shame.  Nick. 
Homer's verse, had I been his translator, should rather have run thus 
The Author that such lies did write, believe me, was too blame,  
For why? the world did see his pen did want both truth and shame.   Ma. 
Did your Author choose such as he judged most worthy of the print? It seems then he thought some unworthy. It had been more for his reputation, if he had thought so of all.  Nick. 
Oh not of all; Lipsius protests that some were true.  Ma. 
I might answer with a non sequitur. What grounds hath he for his protestation? Forsooth he read the Gests and Records; and so have I Gesta Romanorum. Their authority is much alike. If there were any difference, the later were in print, whereas Lipsius scraped his out of scribbled and motheaten Copies. What hath Lipsius to say for his Hall and Sichem wonders, which the followers of Antichrist may not allege more probably, in the defence of the stratagems of their Lord, which by all likelihood are to be more conspicuous? and yet we are forewarned not to believe them.  Min. 
How much those Saint-canonizing Records are to be suspected, we may judge by the caution that Gregory gives us in his Decretals. 
u Greg. 9 lib. 3 Decret. 1. de Reliquijs et venerati me sanctorum cap. 1.  Audivimus (saith he) quod quidam intervos diabolica fraud decepti, hominem quendam in potatione et ebrietate occisum, quasi sanctum, more Infidelium venerantur. And again, 
x Ibid. cap. 2.  Cum ex eo quod quidam sanctorum reliquias exponunt venales, veleas passim ostendunt, christianae religioni detractum sit saepius: Ne in posterum detrahatur, presenti decreto statuimus, ut antiquae reliquiae amodo extra capsam nullatenus ostendantur etc. And he concludeth, Praelati non admittant eos: The Prelates may not suffer those that come to their Churches to worship, to be deceived with the variety of figments or false relations, as it is accustomed to be done in most places for gains sake. Now if Hall and Sichem be within the Site of that continent which Gregory taxeth, there is no doubt but they who were to reap the profit by the concourse of Contributors, would set Lipsius' pen in a large field, where he might have sea-room enough to hoist up all the sails that his wit could bear. They would be sure to present him Gests enough, though indeed they were no better than jests, as all wise men account them.  jab. 
If bare denial 
y Pag. 133.  without proof, stubborn Incredulity without reason, profane jesting without sobriety, may make histories witnessed by the consent of learned, judicious, and pious nations; what place will be left for human history, or divine faith, or religious piety, in human kind? Have not heathens in former times, may they not at this resent, overthrow the miracles of Christ by these Engines?  Ma. 
They neither have nor are able to supplant them, though all the powers of the gates of hell should bandy against them. These things were not done in a Corner. The heathen Oracles were enforced to give place. The Centurions and Roman Soldiers were eye-witnesses: the Eclipse of the Sun: the moving of the earth: the dispersion of the jews, with other secular histories, are able to stop the mouth of Atheism in their behalf. If it be not more than a spice of blasphemy, to cast these figurative doubts, I appeal to the judgement of your superiors.  jab. 
What can 
z Ibid.  be said within the compose of human credibility for the certainty of those stories, wherein Christianity is grounded, which may not most clearly in defence of these?  Min. 
It may not only be said but proved, that the penne-men of those sacred histories wrote those things which they had heard and seen, in the presence of many witnesses; their enemies being judges. Most of them sealed their writings with their blood; all of them joined in one issue. So that to make the least doubt of them, were to question whether the Sun doth shine at noon day. Were there not a 
a Apoc. 13.5.  mouth given unto you to speak great things and blasphemies, you would tremble to match your fabulous reports, with those undeniable verities, which have the testimony of God, Angels, and men.  jab. 
Those were done 
b Pag. 134.  openly that whole multitudes did behold them, so were these; Those were wrought his enemies being present, the like did happen in many of these. Those were written with circumstances, naming the time, the persons the places, and other particularities, with the like particularities doth Lipsius' report the miracles of our Lady.  Ma. 
Your own 
c Ouerth. Pag. 126.  Bel-wether will stop his Master's mouth. Where God hath his Church, hath not the Devil his Chapel? Is not 
d Fraus Simia veritatis.  fraud the Counterfeit of truth? Is falsehood to learn how to contrive circumstances, to gain the probability of real verity? It is hard I confess to prove a negative; but seeing you grant the certainty of the evangelical histories, we need not travel far in the inquiry; for as much as the signs of true miracles, which we have fetched from thence, have laid your Dagon flat on his face before the Ark.  Nick. 
Shall I take the Doctor in his own spell? Let me hear how he can disprove 
e Lib. 1. cap. 29  Aelians' like relation. In the field of one Nicippus (saith he) as the Inhabitants of Coos do relate, there was an Ewe that did yeane a Lion. And again; 
f Lib. 4. cap. 17  When Pythagoras passed over the River Nessus, he was saluted by the River, saying, Salve Pythagora. These things are very strange; and why may not they be as true as Lipsius his reports? Shall they be justified because no man traveled into those parts, to discover them? I hope he names the places, the persons, the accidents, and the testimony of the borderers. Shall we therefore cry out, what human credibility can be currant, if these be capable of the blur? Aelian is content we should laugh at these, and therefore Lipsius needs not take a poor smile in snuff.  jab. 
The story of 
g Pag. 124 Balaams' Ass cannot teach him to make congruity of this sentence.  john Swickius who lost his best nose, could any falsehood be more conspicuous, if he still kept a good on his face? Lipsius telleth the year of our Lord when the same did happen, within thirty three years since the Knight's remembrance, the place where he lived in Brussels. How easy would it be to trace the steps of this story, and find the falsehood thereof were it a fable?  Ma. 
And have not Aelian and Herodotus the same buttresses, to uphold the bulwarks of their Histories? Had it pleased God for the punishment of our sins, to have given way to the Powder Treason, which of these Circumstances would have been wanting, to have made it a Grand-miracle? Your Lipsians would have set down the place Westminster, the day the fift of November, the year of our Lord 1605. the persons, his Royal Majesty, the Young Prince, the Lords and Commons of Parliament, the witnesses London, Lambeth, and other Towns many miles distant, which would have trembled with the violence of that infernal clap. Then would you have deafed the World with this vociferation, How easy would it be to trace the steps of this story, and find the falsehood thereof, were it a fable? This is your Engineers craft by cunning semblances, to cast such a fog, that their knavery shall be hardly espied. It had been no less than death for any man, to have called the truth of this miracle in question.  Min. 
I never heard before that a mild Lady did cut off so many gentlemen's noses. I rather wonder, if this of Swickius be true in modo & forma, how it came to pass when Popish Idols were suppressed in England, that no one man lost his nose, nor received any harm, though many such wooden Ladies then lost their heads! Had they had such a General as Lipsius, they would have made old havoc.  jab. 
This jesting 
h Pag. 134. 135  at miracles done in our Church so credibly reported, overthroweth the bulwark of human authority, which Christianity doth presuppose, and openeth a wide gap for Atheism and Infidelity to enter.  Ma. 
If a man be once found false, ei non est credendum, etiamsi per plurimos Deos iuraverit. The Scripture is a sufficient shelter against Atheism, were the Blockhouses of your Miracles battered to the ground If the waiting maid be 
i Fucata pedissequa dominam arguit impudicam.  painted, the chastity of the Mistress will be shrewdly suspected. The evangelical miracles scorn the attendance of your babble trumperies, by which their sincerity is more like to be derided, then honoured.  Nick. 
jabal should do well to remember, how the holy Maid of Kent (as good a Maid as Dolls bucken tub) was taken napping. He forgets how soon the five wounds were healed. I do not think but he hath read how 
k Acts Mon. fol. 648  Duke Humphrey uncased a fellow, who came from B●rwick, as if he had been borne blind, unto Saint Albon, (where King Henry the sixth than kept his Court) and there received his sight. Have you not heard of the four 
l Langij Chron. ad annum. 1509  jacobin Friars who raised Ulcers in the feet, hands, and side, of a simple man, that so they might get somewhat by the sight of a new Saint Francis? 
m Lib. 9  Sleidan can tell you how the Cordeliers of Orleans put a Novice over the vault of their Church, pitifully sighing and lamenting, as if he had been the soul of the Provosts wife, who died without giving any thing to the Church. Why may not Lipsius his penthouse be thatched with the same 
n Fascinatio nugacitatis.  reeds? They are all eiusdem farinae. Had there been so prudent an Examiner as Duke Humphrey in Hall and Sichem, jabal would not now wonder at so trivial a figment, which is not worth a straw, easily blown away with the least blast of a considerate thought.  Min. 
The greatest sort of Romish miracles are, either such as may be accomplished by art, or suborned by fraud. Yet doth not their tyranny spare to impose credence upon Christian souls, for their Coffer-aduantage. 'tis not many months since I read in 
o Part. 4. Sum. maior. tit. 14. c 1. 10. de Septemp. purge. §. 7  Antoninus of certain Fishermen, who drawing their Net to land, found therein a massy piece of Ice, whereof they were not a little glad, because they knew it would be a welcome present to Theobald their Bishop, who was exceedingly tormented, with a burning heat in his feet; neither were they deceived, for it stood him in great stead. One day amongst the rest, as he was cooling his gouty toe, he heard a voice come out of the Ice, whereupon he conjures it to tell, who or what it was. The voice answers, I am a 
p Piscater●s animarum.  soul afflicted for my sins in this Ice, and unless you say thirty Masses for me, thirty whole days together, I shall not be delivered. Theobald instantly betakes him to his beads, and begins his task. Whilst he was at his work, there is news brought of an Army approaching to sack the Town. The Bishop is driven to give over his devotion for that time. When the hurly burly was past, he falls to his business the second time, but with as ill success; for then there arose a civil commotion in the Town. The third time he means to make all sure: but see, (as the Devil would have it) the whole City with the Bishop's Palace, was all on a light fire; His servants were importunate with him to cast away his book, and to provide for his own safety. Do what they could, they could not prevail. All the answer they get is this, that though the Town should be burnt to the ground, he is resolved not to give over, till he had made an end. To be short, he was as good as his word. Would you hear the issue? He had no sooner finished, but the Ice melted, the soul was delivered, and the fire vanished; neither was there any damage at all received. If this be not true ask the Fishermen; poor souls they little thought, they had taken such a booty.  Ma. 
There was none in the Town but must needs take notice of this strange accident. But shall I quit your tale with another, out of 
q In fest. johan. evang. ant. port. Lat.  Friar jeremy? There was a certain holy man, who was troubled as he traveled with a boisterous wind, insomuch that forgetting himself, he falls a cursing and poxing Aeolus, for his uncharitable dealing. Well, when he comes to his journeys end, he bethinks himself what a sin he had committed; and is so touched with compunction, that he locks himself up in an house and casts the 
r The like in the life of S. Eugin. Abbot of Euesham.  key into the Sea, vowing never to come out, till the same key were found. I dare say jabal would be loath to be penned up so long; but this was the penance of that age; and see how it succeeded. He had not been there a year and a day, but he had a fish given him, in whose belly this key was found. You must think it was a dear morsel to the poor Trout: no marvel though she could not swim away, with such an Iron weight.  Nick. 
Had it been an Ostrich, I should sooner have believed it. We must imagine it was a very hungry season. What jolly Lads are these? they scorn petty miracles. It was worthily thought a great matter, that a fish should bring Peter a piece of 
s Mat. 17.2  twenty pence; but Friar jeremies' nogging fish puts that clean down, she swallowed a whole key at a gobbet. His Sobriety is of a very dull temper, that cannot find a laughter for these enchanted devices. And yet this is nothing to that I once heard a Catholic deliver, of one 
t Pref●n opera Dionis. Areop.  Dionysius a Martyr, who when his head was cut off with a sword, took it up in his hands, and went with it in that manner the space of two miles, till he met with a woman, with whom he left it in trust. Let Nicephorus deliver it with a Ferunt; you shall have those that will show it you, and swear it is the same head. If he had stumbled by the way; a good face might perchance have been marred.  jab. 
The persons and 
u Pag. 136. 137  places named in most of Lipsius his stories are famous, Flanders, Brussels, Louvain: examine persons and places, we desire no favour, truth seeks no corners; For example, the famous miracle of john Clement, that he was lame from his nativity, and of a monstrous composition of body, his thighs and feet contracted, and turned towards the forepart of his breast, so as his knees did grow, and stick thereto, his body was round, or in a manner Spherical, unfit to stand, lie, or walk, this the whole City of Brussels can witness. Being carried to our Lady's Chapel at Sichem in a waggon, and having confessed his sins, and received the blessed Sacrament, he did in the end, find his contracted and bound feet to be loosed, and stretched forth with such strength, that his doublet that stayed them was broken in pieces, so as presently he stood on his feet himself, the beholders being amazed thereat.  Nick. 
They would have been more astonished had they seen another stand upon his feet. 'tis well your Lady can make crooked Catholics stand alone. It may be the Tailor sowed the seams of Clement's doublet, with a hot needle and a  thread.  jab. 
Can you 
x Ibid.  say that this is a Miracle of the maker? You cannot with any truth, except you mean the maker of Mankind, who by the intercession of his Mother, reform that monstrous error of nature.  Nick. 
You talk so much of your Lady, that you will make her right ear glow ere you have done. They that are acquainted with your Gipsie-trickes, will not at all be amazed, at this setting of Clement on his feet; they will scarce wonder if she had made him go on his head. Your fascinations and devices are such, that they pass common sense. This would be better proved by witnesses, than Lipsius his bare assertion.  jab. 
I have heard 
y Pag. 138.  that those potent, pious, and prudent Princes, whom the Knight so commends, did show this miraculous Creature, and monument of God's infinite power, and goodness, to that noble parsonage he waited on in that Embassage, assuring him upon their knowledge, who knew the party, both before and after the cure, that the miracle was most undoubted; at which sight it is very probable the Knight was present.  Nick. 
Nay then we will no more meddle with your miracles; Have you the face to bear us down, with such shameless 
z Quid domini facient, audent cum ta●a fures?  falsehoods? What will he not undertake, who thinks to make a man believe he saw that, which he did not so much as hear? Shall I tell you? upon my faith and credit, I saw an answer written from that noble 
a Earl of Hertford.  Earl unto my Master, the tenor whereof was this. I received your Letter on Saturday, by my servant Gregory Boys, etc. What you account to be a favour, I esteem as a due of honour, to give witness to the truth, when it is questioned, etc. My answer unto your request, for your full satisfaction is this. When it pleased his Majesty to employ my service in the Low Countries, (all things considered very unworthy any way, for such an Embassage unto those great Personages) the name of john Clement was not known to me by any occasion whatsoever, nor I think from the best, to the meanest of my troup; much less did I hear any word, from the mouth of either of those great Princes, the Infanta, or the Archduke, at any time, no not when I had the freest converse with them, which was at the dinner I was invited unto by their Highnesses, etc. So that by this you must give us leave to guess of your sincerity, in the rest of your ridiculous Legends.  jab. 
I cannot wonder 
b Pag. 138  enough, at the miraculous impudency of your Ministers, who having accused such famous miracles, as ours are, for false, dare set to sale their own toys and trifles, as most credible things.  Ma. 
You shall do well to tell us who those Ministers be, and what those trifles are.  jab. 
joseph 
c Pag. 138. 139.  Hall brings you a miraculous tongue, which he got in his travels in the Low Countries. A Graphie●e told him that a certain Heretic being condemned to be burned, went singing to the stake, for which the Magistrate caused his tongue to be cut out; and in punishment hereof, the Magistrates son that was borne afterwards, had his tongue hanging down upon his chin like a Deer after a long chase.  Ma. 
Mirabilia sunt opera tua domine. The right hand of the Lord bringeth mighty things to pass. Such is his justice that he oftentimes retaliateth cruelty in the like kind. An eye for an eye, and a tongue for a tongue. But seeing the Author doth not jurare in verba magistri, if you will not believe it you have it as good cheap as he; he doth not deny, but that his mother might lose her longing for a neats tongue. That which he credibly surmizeth is this, that Lypsius would have made a great matter of a less hint, had there been a shadow of half this probability to serve his turn.  Min. 
jabals' partiality is worth the noting. We must believe that 
d Capgrave.  Austen the Monk obtained by prayer, that certain men of Dorset, and all their posterity should have tails, for hanging fish tails in scorn at his back; and that Thomas Becket furnished our Kentishmen with the like Pickadillies, for cutting off his horse tail. These mushrooms (grounded upon a less motive) may not be questioned, though nothing so evident as a blareing label-lolling tongue, which without the help of a Muffler, could not be so well concealed.  jab. 
How would 
e Pag. 135.  these hens cackle, could they lay an egg worth the finding, that thus brag of a shell full of wind?  Ma. 
Where such demonstrations of God's justice do occur, they are not to be smothered. When the scout you send into those parts shall disprove the relation, we will say the Graphiere was a knave: till than we have reason to conceive the best; neither do we doubt but the general good opinion of Doctor Hall's sincerity, will turn Lipsius his credit out of the Hall into the kitchen.  jab. 
john Fox brings a 
f Pag. 140.  dainty and rare dish, Cranmers' own heart, which in the fire, his whole body being consumed into ashes, was sound whole and entire. which wonder seemeth to me the greater; in regard of the tenderness of your Martyr's heart, more flexible than wax to any religion, which the Prince would have him bend unto:  Ma. 
Si satis 
g Seneca.  sit accusasse, quis erit innocens? Cranmers' Epistles sent to the Queen, his confession of the true Faith, with detestation of Popery, found in his bosom at the time of his execution, & the revenge which he showed in burning the hand that through frailty and cruel usage, had inconsiderately subscribed, do sufficiently free him from the suspicion, both of irreligious levity (which the voluntary neglect of his worldly dignities, for the maintenance of the Faith, and a good conscience, doth evidently disprove) as also of all proditory or treacherous entendments, wherewith your Garnetian brood is so generally and notoriously enured.  jab. 
By whom I 
h Pag. 140. 141  pray you was that heart found? by Catholics? why are they not named? by Protestants? why did they not take it up? Did they fear to scorch their Protestant fingers in the ashes of that fire, that spared a Protestant heart? If they took it up, what is become of it? where is it kept?  Nick. 
'tis fit indeed you should be made acquainted. Would you serve Cranmers' heart as your associates did Bucers' bones? If the fire would not burn it, you would try what the Butcher's chopping-knife could do. I have heard good Divines say, that the body of Moses was purposely concealed, lest it should have been idolatrously worshipped; neither did it stand with the wisdom or safety of those professors, by whom this heart was discovered, to make proclamation thereof, lest the subtlety or cruelty of your jesuits might have exposed it, to a second ignominious doom. Wheresoever it is, it is safe enough from the scorching of your scandalous pen.  Min. 
Touching this holy man's heart, I will say unto thee, as the Angel of the Lord spoke unto the Devil. 
i Zach. 3, 2.  The Lord rebuke thee O Satan, even the Lord that hath chosen jerusalem rebuke thee. Is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?  jab. 
It is not 
k Pag. 141.  wisdom for any man's faith to feed overhastily, upon so dangerous a dish of meat.  Min. 
Have we not the like instance of God's powerful providence, in the preservation of Zuinglius his heart, from the fiery flames? Oswaldus Myconius in the description of his life writeth thus. Hostibus digressis, post diem tertium accedunt amantes Zuinglij, si quid reliqutarum eius offenderent, et ecce Cor (mirabile dictu) se offert è medijs cineribus integrum et illaesum. This also doth Henricus Lupulus witness in his Epitaph. Cor cui flamma potens pepercit, et quod pallentem in cinerem nequit resolui etc.  Ma. 
These Relics will not relish with jabals' palate, because his Lady of Hall & Sichen had their gloves on, when these things were acted. William 
l And. Capgrave.  Malmsb. gives you a daintier morsel, with which your queasy stomach is better acquainted; I mean the Relic which S. Dunstane found, when he took up the body of the chaste Editha. After he had a while raked in her ashes, what do you think he found? Her 
m The like of john Travers his thumb and two forefingers. Britannomodia. Pag. 179.  thumb, as being most hardened with continual use; and what else? Nick will blush to hear it. A 
n Male olet.  thing in the Suburbs of her belly, like the Circumference of a giant's eye. You know what I mean? a piece of a buff-jerkin. Is not this goodly gear? these are your sweet Relics, which your Catholic Gallants must adore.  jab. 
Some of your 
o Pag. 143.  Writers, seeing our relations to be authentical, as none can be more, have not brazen faces to deny the stories, yet their heart and tongue is no less impious, not fearing to affirm that these miracles are the miracles of the Devil, and antichrist's lying wonders.  Min. 
In fine 
p In Mat. hom. 49.  temporis (saith Chrysostome) concedenda est potestas Diabolo ut faciat signa utilia. In the latter times shall there not come strong delusions, such as were those of 
q Exo. 7.12.13.  jannes' and jambres? Is the Devil think you grown a novice in his old trade? our comfort is this; As Aaron's rod swallowed up the rods of the Magicians, so (saith 
r Ad Algasiam  Hierom) mendacium Antichristi, Christi veritas devorabit.  Nick. 
Let their miracles be brought to the test, and then let the world judge, whether they be not either the miracles of the Devil, or antichrist's lying wonders.  Ma. 
What think you of the Merchant; 
s S. jam. Legend. Numb. 94.  who praying to S. james to be released out of prison, was so powerful in his zeal, that the high tower wherein he was caged, bowed itself so low, quod ipsius sublimitas terrae aequalis fuit, that it lay even with the ground, and so he escaped, neither was he seen by those which pursued him, though they were hard by him. Here was an invisible miracle; me thinks they might have followed him by the sent, for surely he was in a feting case. Was not S. George a mighty man, who made a Maid lead a Dragon in a string? Was 
t S. George. O Strange!  he not of a very cold constitution, who thought himself in a bath, when Datianus put him in a frying-pan, full of boiling lead? I trow he had a tough hide. The very Children can tell, how Pope Silvester bound up a dragon's mouth with a 
u Is it possible?  thread, and signed it with the sign of the cross. Marry you must think it was either a weak Dragon, or a strong thread.  Nick. 
Perhaps the cross wherewith he sealed him was a good iron hammer; and yet we read that S. 
x Legend. 137.  justina with the sign of the cross, made the Devil melt like wax. Was not this a flexible Devil? she was of a stronger metal, for being put into a pan full of pitch & wax, presently the fire went out, neither have we any notice in the history, that she did leak. The best jest is of S. 
y Petrus de Natalibus.  Margaret, she (forsooth) was swallowed up of the Devil, being in the form of a Dragon, and being in his belly, she made the sign of the Cross, instantly his belly broke, and thence came a Saint out of his side. But it was not long before she cried quittance with him; upon a time she took him at an advantage, and caught him by the hair of his head, cast him down, and set her right foot upon his neck. In those days they had the Devil at a beck. S. 
z 
Daemon fluxu ventris ●iectus est.  
Legend. Lob. 213   Genoveua cast him forth in her close stool. though it were a kind of sluttish dispossession, yet could not the Devil complain of hard lodging. He lay worse when 
a Pet. de Natal. lib. 8. de sanc. cap. 20.  Lupus (spying him to be crept into a tub of water) cast a cushion upon him, & kept him fast in; then says my author, tota nocte ululabat, he roared all night.  Min. 
He screamed worse when Saint Dunstan caught him by the nose with hot burning pincers. This Dunstan was a stout lad. If a Church stood awry, he made no more ado but put his shoulder to it, and so set it right East and West, as he would have it stand. One commendable property he had was this, that he was very musical: Nay more, his harp that hung upon the wall, without the touch of any man's fingers, would play an Anthem, and sing of itself this ditty, Gaudent in coelis animae Sanctorum. You must not imagine that any Irish or Welsh monkish harper played on the other side of the wall; for I can tell you S. Dunstan's harp needed no consorts. Amongst other merriments, we must not forget the good deed, that S. 
b Capgrave. Legend.  Wolstan did to a poor man, who had his stones cut, and his eyes put out, by his enemies. This forlorn wretch, praying to this Saint, got new stones, and better eyes than he had before.  Ma. 
Are these the holy and undoubted miracles, unto which our credence must stoop, as Bonellus his 
c 
Statim Asina genua flexit, et capite inclinato reverentiam exhibuit.  
Came not Bellarmine's Ma●● of the same Sire.   ass to the consecrated host? If we deny these, he asketh 
d Pag. 133.  What place will be left for human history or divine faith? nay he sticketh not to move this question, What can be said within the compass of human credibility, for the certainty of those stories whereon Christianity is grounded, which may not most clearly be proved in defence of these? There is no evasion but we must be branded with his Cognizance, as brazenfaced heretics, if we deny these 
e Pag. 143.  Relations to be so authentical as none can be more,  Min. 
Cassianus 
f johan. Cass. Praes. lib. 4. z. A. a.  doth highly extol the humility and obedience of one called holy john, who raised no small admiration by his obsequious conformity to his superiors behests. Among other trials of his loyalty, the Senior set him this task. There was in the woodyard of the Monastery an old stock, which had more than a twelvemonth before been cut for firing. This he takes & sets into the ground in the sight of Puny john, and commands him every day to water it, till it took new root, and began to sprout. The Novice is not slack in the performance of this imposed duty, no sickness, no festival stays him, but as soon as the Sun was up, he trudges two miles for water, to moisten this rotten plant. To be short, at the end of two years the old Monk comes to the place, inquires and asks john whether his stock had yet taken root; but herein john cannot resolve him; wherefore as if he meant to try the success of john's labour, he puts to his hand, and at the first pluck pulls it clean out of the earth, willing him to water it no more. Hear was an end of an old song. When I read it, I was in doubt whether I should more admire his humility, or his stupidity.  Nick. 
jabal wonders to what purpose you tell this tale, seeing the miracle failed,  Ma. 
Had he any wit he might easily resolve himself. How think you? Is he not somewhat of kin to puny john? The dry stock which he hath been all this while a watering, at the command of his superiors, is the point of Purgatory and Miracles; a dead stock God-wotte, fit for the fire then his pains. He hath with great labour fetched his water as far as Hall and Sichem, more than two miles off, yet all to little purpose, the stock hath neither gained verdure nor juice, but is as 
g Non proficit hilum.  lose in the rivet as before. Wherefore his superiors may do well, either to set him a more hopeful plant, or to ease him of his bootless pains; for all that he shall get by his industry in this kind, is the opinion of obedience: and herein he hath gotten a Triumph indeed; which whether it sort more with his credit or shame, I leave to the censure of more judicious surveyors.  jab. 
The sight of 
h Pag. 146  the bleeding wafer-cake at Brussels, seemeth to have made the Knight's ears glow, but what stories of the like miracles might he read, were he conversant in ancient Ecclesiastical histories?  Min. 
You mean about the adoration of the Divine sacrament; but herein are we satisfied by 
i Part. 4. qu. 53 memb. 4. art. 3. fol. 2  Alexander of Hales. In Sacramento (saith he) apparet caro, interdum humana procuratione, interdum operatione diabolica. In the Sacrament there appears oftentimes flesh, sometimes by the slight of man, sometimes by the operation of the devil. This 
k In ca 14. Dan.  Lyra confirmeth, as he is ●itly alleged by the Knight, Fit aliquando in Ecclesia maxima deceptio populi in miraculis fictis à Sacerdotibus, propter lucrum temporale. Wherefore in what Monastery, or on what Altar soever you pretend to show Christ in the flesh (whom we know to keep his corporal residence on the right hand of God, in the highest Heavens) we are forewarned and forearmed not only to suspect, but utterly to reject such fabulous untruths. If any man shall say unto us, Lo 
l Mat. 24. v. 23.  here is Christ, we must not believe, for there shall arise false Christ's and false Prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders.  Nick. 
'tis time for jabal to leave off watering this rotten stock; nor six reasons, nor six hundred buckets full of Holy water, will make 
m M●●e ruit sua.  it thrive. If he have any thing to say touching our conversion by Gregory, or any excuse for his Delegates insolency, which hath not been formerly answered, let him say on. I broke my fast very early, and now I feel my stomach begin to wamble. Perge Domine Doctor.   

CHAP. VI Great Gregory's proud Delegate dismounted, and Popish pretended devotion uncased.  jab. 
I Might here end 
a Pag. 154  Purgatories Triumph, but that in his Countersnarle the Knight quarrels with me about the first Conversion of the English Nation unto Christian Religion, which I said in my Treatise, was performed by Saint Gregory and those holy Monks he sent.  Nick. 
If your monstrous Hydra have yet any more heads, we shall not want keen weapons to cut them off, as soon as they begin to sprout. The garland which you have prepared, may be converted to some better use; for Gregory's supposed Conversion will be no great furtherance to that Trophy, which you have a desire to rear. If your Roman stage-plays (consisting of dumb shows, and colourable miracles) cannot prevail, the Sabine Ladies will never be won.  Ma. 
Suppose it should be granted, that the Christian faith of our English Nation was kindled at Rome's light; I have oft seen that Lamp which hath made others to shine, choked and dimmed, either with want or surplusage of Oil. But this seemeth to me very strange, that they who teach their Catholic Pupils to build upon Antiquity, will not suffer them now to fetch the Pedigree of their Conversion, beyond the modern arrival of Augustine the Monk.  Min. 
The view of all Ancient Records free us from the fear of this needless supposition. The 
b Let. to T.H. Pag. 92.  testimonies of Gildas, Theodoret, Nicephorus, and Baronius have been urged by the Knight to prove that the Inhabitants of this Island were converted, either by the Apostles, or Apostolic persons. Yea he proveth by the acknowledgement of their own 
c Of three conversions.  Author, that from the time of King Lucius, until the coming of Augustine, the Britons did not alter their faith; which was one and the self same in all substantial and material points, with that which Augustine brought.  jab. 
The 
d Pag. 166.  Britons were Christians when Saint Augustine came; doth it therefore follow, that the Saxons were not Heathens? The Mountains unto which the Britons retired, were full of Christian Churches; might not the rest of the Land be full of Idols? is any man so silly as not to perceive your Consequent to be ridiculous? Why 
e Pag. 165.  might not Saint Augustine convert the English unto Christ, though the Britons were Christians before? And if by his entrance, and preaching he did convert them, why should not the same be styled the Conversion of the English Nation? The 
f Pag. 167  Conversions named by the Knight, truly understood of Britons only, are impertinently brought to prove, that Saint Gregory and Saint Augustine his Delegate were not Authors of Christianity amongst the English. Suppose 
g Pag. 168.  the two thousand of Bangor had been a Million of Monks, yet being Britons, quid ad Rombum? may he not be justly thought a Bangoring disputant that doth thence infer, that at that time the Saxons were not Heathens?  Nick. 
Did not Augustine find an Archbishop, and seven Bishops, when he arrived amongst the English Saxons?  jab. 
These 
h Ibid.  were not Professors and Preachers of Christian faith among the English Saxons. They neither preached unto them, nor lived amongst them, as Saint Gregory doth expressly say in his Epistle to Saint Augustine: In Anglorum gente tu solus Episcopus; thou art the only Bishop among the English. If you 
i Pag. 167  mean that before Augustine's arrival, the Saxons, some of them at least, were Christians, your Assertion is evidently false, against all histories.  Nick. 
Solus & unus, more Superlativorum accipiuntur. Gregory being far remote, wrote perhaps as he was informed by the Letters of his Agents, whose pens were tipped with partiality, and wholly bend to promote their master's fame, and the success of their own voyage.  Min. 
That not only in Wales and Scotland, but even in the umbilique of the Saxons Dominion, there was a conception of Christian faith; I am the rather persuaded of, because King Ethelbert, who then reigned in Kent, had a Christian Lady to his wife; as also in regard of the 
l Aliquid boni propter vicinum bonum.  vicinity of those bordering Britons, with whom, both in the time of war and peace, they could not but have converse. Neither is it probable but that the Saxons, who were to stand to the courtesy of Vortiger, for their peaceable abode, would somewhat conform themselves to the Religion of the king, upon whose favour they were to depend.  jab. 
Into 
m Pag. 173.  what desperate absurdities doth malice against the Sea of Rome drive you?  Min. 
The ground of this surmise is originally raised from S. Gregory's pen; we can have no better witness then himself, who writing to Theodoricus and Theodibertus Kings of the French, speaketh in this manner. 
n Greg. lib. 5. epist. 158.  pervenit ad nos Anglorum gentem ad fidem Christianam desideranter velle converti, sed sacerdotes tuos è vicino negligere, et desideria eorum cessare sua adhortatione succendere. And writing at the same time to Brunchilda Queen of the French, he saith thus. 
o Epist. 159.  Indicamus ad nos pervenisse Anglorum gentem, deo annuente, velle fieri christianam, sed sacerdotes qui in vicino sunt pastoralem erga eos sollicitudinem non habere etc. By which it appeareth, that the Saxons growing weary of their idolatry (as being incited by the example of the Brittanes, among whom Christ was still professed, or by the means of Bertha then wife of King Ethelbert, and the Christian company wherewith she was attended) had intimated their 
* Ignoti nulla cupido.  desire to be matriculated into the womb of the Christian Church; as also, that had not the Borderers, either for fear or hate, refused to put to their helping hands, your Gregory had had the least share in this business. The first of which will be more conspicuous, if you call to mind the 
* Veni, vidi, vici.  speedy success which the Monk found at his arrival; For first the King takes order that he should be furnished with all competent necessaries, then at the hearing of the first Sermon, he gives command for other liberal entertainment, licensing them by their preaching, to join unto the faith so many as they could; neither was it long before the King himself was baptised, which was no small allective to the rest of the people. Had not the way been trodden before, could he, think you, with so swift steps have accomplished his desire? So great a conquest over a settled Idolatrous people could hardly have been gained, had there not been a former breach made.  Ma. 
These conjectures are not improbable, neither is the matter great howsoever. For if the first place whence the Gospel was derived, be therefore to be magnified beyond other Cities, than should Jerusalem and the Patriarch thereof be most highly esteemed, as being incomparably honoured with the residence, Sermons and Passion of our Saviour; as also with the Master- miracle of the fiery tongues, whereby the Apostles were enabled to propagate the glad tidings of the Gospel to the most remote nations.  Min. 
This argument puts me in mind of Saint 
* 1. Cor. 1.12. cap. 3. 4.  Paul's care in preventing such inconveniences as might accrue upon the like affected Supremacy. He would by no means endure that they, whether Paul Cephas or Apollo's, whom God had used as his instruments to gain others to the profession of Christ, should thereupon arrogate to themselves any opinion, whereby their partial Scholars should rather adhere unto them then unto others. Yet will you not be persuaded, but that this part of the world must have a necessary dependence upon Rome, from whence it received an addition of that light, which at least by a glimmering notion (as I have proved) it so much coveted. Can you show that the Bishops of Rome, who after K. Lucius embraced the faith, did for 400. years intrude themselves into the management of our Country affairs, your inference would bear a better gloss; but it is evident by the Epistle of Elutherius to that King, that he never dreamt of any jurisdiction over him or his Realm, albeit as a religious Bishop he willingly condescended unto his desire, in furthering him towards the Kingdom of God; neither did the Brittanes seek to the Sea of Rome for the suppressing of Pelagius his heresy, but to the neighbour Church of France. It is unlike Germanus and Lupus would have adventured without the Pope's privity to interpose their sickle, had the Harvest belonged unto Rome.  Ma. 
Your instances in my opinion are very prevalent, if their supposed original Conversion were granted. But seeing we are descended not only of the Saxons, but rather from the Britons, who were the Ancient Inhabitants of this Land; the Heathenism of the Saxons first entrance, cannot abrogate the antiquity of our faith. As our Country hath the same denomination, so is the 
p Qu● semeles● imbuta recens s●ruabit odorem Terra dus.  descent of our Noble King, and of our Ancient nobility, lineally drawn from the prime stock of the old Brittanes; neither is there any likelihood by consent of history, but that the British blood runneth in all our 
q History of Cambria by H. ●boyd. Brittanni saxons, Normann●, ●e permi●●i. Cambden. Brit.  veins.  Nick. 
Are you content that 
r First part c. 99 of Cl●deueus.  Fabians Chronicle shall decide this controversy? His words are these. It appeareth that Christ's faith was by a long time honoured in Britain, ere it was honoured in France, except that such as hold the foresaid opinion, account the first coming of Christ's faith into Britain, at the first Conversion of the Saxons, when it was preached by Saint Augustine and his followers, which is not to the purpose. Was it not to the purpose in the Controversy between France and us? then will it but a little promote our allegiance to Rome. I would gladly understand by jabal, whether he hold himself a Britain, or no. If he deny it, his mother I dare say will hold him unworthy of his breath, and his Country of his being. If he confess it, then hath his own mouth given sentence against him, that the Britons were Christians when Augustine came. The regiment of the Saxons had at length a consumption, and then the natural blood returned into the former and more proper parts, from whence it was unwillingly retired, as being by violence withheld in too narrow a strait.  Ma. 
Hath the Doctor never seen his majesties 
s Quos Deus comunxit nemo separet.  impress with this Motto, Faciam eos in gentem unam? Why doth he then go about seditiously by a frivolous distinction of the heptarchy, to separate that people, whom the providence of the Almighty hath miraculously joined with one heart, under one King? Scotland and Wales are one with us, and we with them. So that the question being when we received the faith, we must have one and the same recourse to the original plantation thereof in this Land, and not to the 
t 
Nova gentium nomina extinctis prioribus oriuntur.  
Quotid● aliquid in tom magno orb mutatur. Senec. de cons. ad Albinum.   recovery thereof in some particular parts.  Nick. 
It would be a difficult task for the Doctor to prove that the Nation of those Saxons, who were entertained by Ethelbert, had not formerly received the faith, seeing Saint 
u Colloss. 1.6  Paul saith, that even in his age the evangelical message did fructificare in universo mundo. If he answer that at their arrival they were Infidels, the like may be said of those seven Churches unto whom Saint john writeth. If he will not stand upon the 
x Which Fabian in the life of Vortiger thinks to be Germany, first converted by Lucius of Cirene Paul's kinsman and companion. Aventinus in Annal. Boiorum.  Nation, from which in tract of time the Candlestiks might be removed, but instance in that part of the Land, which they in the state of Infidelity did subdue; my Master hath proved by sundry instances, that this Island was Christian many years, before Gregory drew his Mother's milk.  Min. 
Saint 
y Hom. 4. in Ezech.  Origen puts that clean out of doubt. Terra Britanniae (saith he) consensit in religionem Christi. And again, 
z Hom. Quod Christus sit Deu●.  insulae Britanniae extra hoc mare sitae, & in Oceano ipso positae, sensere virtutem verbi Dei.  jab. 
That which we 
a Pag. 173  affirm is, that Christianity was never in the English Nation, before God by Saint Gregory's prayers and Augustine's preaching planted the same in their hearts.  Ma. 
It is most likely that Lethardus the Frenchman, the Queen's Chaplain, was not idle 
b Bonum est sui d●ss●st●.  all the while before Augustine came. Will you say of him as of the 
c Pag. 168  Britons, that he could by no 
d Yet the Bishops were brought before Augustine by the means of Edelbert. Fab. Part. 5. cap. 119.  means be brought to preach the faith of Christ to the Saxons? By all probability, being graced with the Royal countenance of his Mistress, he had greater 
e unde scis mulier, si virum saluum facies. 1. Cor. 7.16  opportunity of beginning this work, than Augustine who came as a stranger, without those means, which Lethardus could not want.  jab. 
This is against all 
f Pag. 173. 174  authors of our Country. S. Bede saith expressly that the King upon Augustine's coming gave leave for the preaching of the gospel. A sign that none did nor durst preach, without his leave, specially one that was so nigh about him as the Queen's Chaplain, who thereby might bring both himself and the Queen in danger.  Ma. 
If you be so good at signs, you shall do me a favour to hold my Cards at Maw. At Augustine's coming 
g Pag. 173.  the King gave leave for the preaching of the Gospel. Ergo, he gave no leave before, non sequitur.  jab. 
If he 
h Pag. 174.  converted any it is most likely they were noble men; but this thing could not have been hidden from the King. Had any been secretly baptised before S. Augustine's arrival by Lethardus, doubtless they would have manifested themselves at his entrance, when the King granted unto his Subjects to profess the Christian faith, which had been a thing remarkable, and would not have been concealed by Bede in his history.  Ma. 
Are these your conjectural Demonstrations? In my opinion this consequent had been more reasonable. Did the King so easily condescend to a stranger, than could he not be adverse to the 
* Hi ambo cum in regia suae religionis ritum quotidie seruarent haud dubie principis animum in alta caligine haerentem sensim cael●stis lucis radijs illustrare caeperunt, inclinaruntque ad Euangelicam disciplinam quam ille libens m●x recepit. Polyd. hist. lib. 4.  wife of his bosom, and her Chaplain who was selected by the French State, as a man most eminent for his discretion and devotion Did he love his Queen so ill, as to engross the service of the whole Nobility to himself, allotting none for her attendance? By your leave sir, there are many noble Gentlemen troubled with Collapsed Ladies, who could find in their hearts to turn their popish servitors out of doors, and yet dare as well take a Bear by the tooth, as give them a frown. Have you never heard of Scimmington? I have known him in my time beat the Constable out of doors. And do you take the French Lady for a sheep? especially being received by the King upon 
i Fabian. in Ethelbert. 5. part. cap. 119.  condition, that he should suffer her to live after her own Law. 
* Lib. 9 Ep. 59  Gregory himself graceth her with the title of a second Helena, in respect of the good which her Lord reaped by her christian inducements.  jab. 
This manner 
k Pag. 176.  of speaking is a sign that the desire, not of truth, but of our disgrace, is the Bias of your tongues: which make you not fear to speak any falsehoods, how improbable soever.  Nick. 
If you begin blind man's buff, groping at likelihoods, you must not be angry if we hold you play. Imagination is as free for us as you. The point is not of any great import, seeing that you grant that our ancestors 
l Galfridus Monumetensis. lib. 8. ca 4. de Britannorum gestis.  the Britain's were Christians, long before Augustine came to alter their Easter feast, The Pope smelled the fatness of the land, and therefore he thought by hook or crook, to have his finger in the pie. And who must be a superintendant in this expedition, but Insolent Augustine? and what stuff did he bring? Forsooth a Banner, Crosses, Images, Relics, and other frivolous and trifling ceremonies.  jab. 
When S. 
m Pag. 179.  Augustine did deliver his errand to King Edelbert, I find in S. Bede this tenor thereof; that he came from Rome, and brought a most 
n Fistula dulce canit volucrem dum decipit auceps.  joyful message, which whosoever should obey, should have eternal joys in heaven.  Ma. 
No doubt he would set the best face before. He might well promise celestial joys in the land of the living, who gaped for the fairest living in the land. So he might be hugged in gremio matris; in the best skirts of their mother earth, he would not spare to promise the simple people millions of absolutions and heavenly joys in sinu patris, in the bosom of his heavenly Father. If you be so conversant in Bede as you would seem, you may take this note, that the first question which he propoundeth to Gregory, his Master, was 
o Lib. 1. cap. 27  de fidelium oblationibus quae accedunt altari. What should be done with the people's offerings. Do you smell a rat?  jab. 
These are 
p Pag. 179.  gross untruths full of ingratitude. Heresy hath made Englishmen more savage, than those were, whom that blessed Delegate found at his entrance.  Ma. 
Experientia matter stultorum. The Wolf was then in sheeps clothing, and might more easily deceive; but since she hath played her part in her proper kind, & bitten 
q Ictus piscator sapit.  Englishmen to the bone: the aim of your Romish Embassies hath been long since discovered by the bitter fruit. Considerate quid de gregibus agatur, quando Lupi pastores fiunt, saith S. Gregory; and again, Custodiam gregis suscipiunt, qui insidiari gregi dominico non metuunt. Susceptae benedictionis ministerium, vertunt ad ambitionis augmentum.  jab. 
As for the conversion 
r Pag. 181. 182.  of our Country by Saint 
s Albertus' Pighius translates this glory to Honorius. Ipsius cura et study, praedicatione autem Pauli ab eo missi Episcopi Eudinum Britannorem regem verbum salutis cum sua gente suscepisse. De Act. 6. Synod. Pag. 277.  Augustine's means, what, not Civility alone, but also sanctity with an heavenly (not human only) kind of life, he planted amongst us our histories do relate, which is such, as I wonder this new Gospel, which Ambition and Emulation, Wine and Women gave the beginning unto, dare boast of their modesty, civility, and sanctity in her presence.  Nick. 
jabal jumps as if he were in one of Simon Fitz-Magus his Irish bogs. If he had gone but one Parenthesis further, surely he would have stuck in the midst. There is in his clause not only, one lie, but also a whole packet of imaginary untruths. I think he means to win the quicksilver tongue from Lipsius. Henry Fitz-Simon and he may well part stakes: they are the fittest to write a history of Giants and enchanted Castles, that ever I knew. If fictions may be admitted, they will outride the Constable; and yet I dare lay a wager 
t Fl●gitia quae non invenit excogitat. Britannomachia. pag. 286.  Fitz-Magus will be at Manchester first.  Ma. 
They must needs ride then with Scarves and Vizards: the one I am sure hath little reason to show his face there, he hath broached so many opprobrious calumnies, in the disgrace of divers reverend persons of that quartar, whose learning, pains and blameless conversation, is graced with such general approbation, that the most settled Papists are ashamed of his impudency, and do not stick to publish their hearty dislike of such shameless and injurious dealing. As for the other, who with a brazen face doth not only basely parallel, but also insolently overmatch the foundation, modesty, civility, and sanctity of our Religion, I will say unto him no more but this, If our faith be of men, wine, or women, (as your Minerva doth dictate) then could it not have withstood those gates of hell, wherewith it hath been opposed. But if it be miraculously planted by the hand of the Almighty, grounded upon his sacred word, and embellished with most Christian virtues, Thou art then inexcusable, O thou false tongue. To justify the wicked, and condemn the innocent, are both abominable.  jab. 
If the 
u Pag. 192. 193.  tree may be judged by the fruit, what a noble and worthy tree was that conversion, from the root whereof such innumerable Saints and excellent workers of piety in such abundance did spring?  Ma. 
Wise men are of opinion, that Papal policy, rather than true Christian piety, brought forth the greatest part of your gilded devotion. What would they spare, who were frighted with Purgatory, and assured of Heaven for their works sake? The Scriptures being imprisoned in the Monks Cell, it could not otherwise be but that Ignorance must be the mother of their devotion: neither is it enough to make an action praiseworthy, that the thing done be ●onum, but both in manner and end it must be done benè: otherwise it is but spendidum peccatum. The building of the Prophet's sepulchres, though wrought with great expense, did not prove the jews to be true Israelites; neither doth the multiplicity of your Monasteries warrant the integrity of your faith. Nay more, let me be bold to say that which I am able to prove: Had not your Popelings fed upon the people's sins, there had not been half so many Abbey-lubbers as lived most idly and deliciously in our Cloisters, and sucked the marrow of our Land. To omit other instances: The Chronicle writing of Edgar's unlawful lechery, as also of the erection of sundry holy-houses, makes this close. For 
x Fabian. part. 6. cap. 193.  these insolent and wanton deeds it is said, that by the counsel of S. Dunstane, he builded and repaired so many Abbeys and houses of Religion as above is rehearsed. By this you may guess, whether your devotion or ours had▪ the beginning from wine and women.  Min. 
The Doctor hath ill luck with his comparisons. If he will deign to peruse D. willet's Inventory of religious works under the Gospel, he shall find that she whom he accounteth barren, hath more children than that Concubine of Antichrist, whose offspring he so much admireth.  jab. 
Compare the 
y Pag. 193.  Monasteries the one builded, with those the other threw down, the riches which the one gave, with those the other took from Churches and holy uses. Let the Humility, Piety, fear of God, reverence to his Church, contempt of the world, which the one caused in great and mighty monarch, be paralleled with the contrary effects your Religion bred in those Princes that first entertained the same in their Kingdoms.  Ma. 
And what then? Do you think the Triumph will be yours? Who I pray you did first put the axe to the tree? Was it not your own 
z Woolsey.  Cardinal? Did not he begin to demolish the lesser erections? Who was the overthrow of the 
a In the time of Edw. the Second.  Templars? Was it not the French King? and did not your Holy Father give way to the extirpation of these? How can you persuade the world, that his Holiness believes there is a Purgatory, seeing he makes so little conscience of prayers for their souls, by whose deluded charity these lesser monuments of devotion were to that end first founded? As there is no respect of persons with God, so is the least mite thrown in his Treasury, as well accepted as the greatest talon of the most mighty Potentate. Why then should the Pope be so partial as to neglect the relief of the poorer sort, by passing licence to the ambitious Cardinal, for the pulling down of lesser Houses, founded with as great Charity, to make princely walls for his pride? How will he escape the dreadful execrations of the first Founders? A thousand jabalites will not bail him. As for Henry the eight, he is far more excusable, because he followed the precedent of the Pope's Legate, whom he thought he might boldly imitate. And when the lands came to the spoil, your own Catholics had not the least share.  N●ck. 
He that shall read the Records of those times, shall find the villainies of the Monastiques so transcendent, that no religious King could with a safe conscience any longer tolerate them. When you shall call to mind how 
b 6000.  many children's heads Gregory saw at the drawing of a fishpond, you will think he hath small reason to boast of their piety, fear of God, and contempt of the world. And were your religious persons thus tainted: then must the secular needs be worse infected. When their purse would purchase their pardon with a Quodlibet, they that had the fairest means, were likely to harbour the foulest sins.  Ma. 
And as for humility, which was the second branch of his maimed comparison, as oft as he thinks of Augustine's pride, me thinks he should turn his face aside when he names it.  jab. 
The 
c Pag. 189.  chief reason that made this blessed Saint to jar with the British Bishops, was their want of Christian charity towards the English, not yielding to preach Christ and Christianity unto them.  Ma. 
'tis strange he should be so inconsiderate, as to fall out with them before he heard them speak. Besides, he could not but hear how many worthy Britain's had been treacherously slain by Hengystus and his 
d Fabian. part. 1. cap. 89.  adherents, both upon Ambry or Salisbury Plain, and at a banquet, where they expected a better welcome. So that his Fatherhood should first have procured hostages for their safety, and then if they had gainsaied his religious motion, they had been more liable to his choleric censure. That for which his ambition is principally noted, is the stately Prologue of his greeting, in his surly and Pseudo episcopal carriage towards his poor brethren, who had been his Seniors in this signory. The countenance is a token of the heart.  jab. 
I confess 
e Pag. 190.  it is so, yet but an uncertain and fallible token, whereupon to frame a resolute and determinate judgement in the condemnation of any, is against Christ's express Commandment. Do not judge according to the face.  Ma. 
S. james explaineth our saviours meaning, when he admonisheth us not to reject the 
f Saepe sub sordido palliolo latitat sapientia.  poor Saint for the meanness of his habit, nor to respect the proud devil for the richness of his vesture. Our saviours prohibition extendeth itself to worldly additaments, and outward hypocritical semblances; it excludes not the censure of the tree by the fruit, by which he says we shall know them. I confess vice doth oft times bear the counterfeit of virtue, but never did I see yet Christian humility so base minded, as to stoop to the imitation of pride. They are the agents of 
g Papa nemini mortalium reverentiam facit, assurgendo aut caput inclinando seu detegendo.  Antichrist, that are pontifical in their carriage, and lofty in their looks. The Disciples of Christ do learn of him to be humble and meek. Though it be rashness to judge of any man's final estate, before the time of our Lord come, yet it is a point of Christian wisdom to 
h Libritui totum te nobis exhibent. Aug. in Epist. 9  discern between a thistle and an olive branch.  jab. 
How oft 
i Pag. 190.  do godly and discreet Superiors show anger, state, gravity, and severity in their countenance, when their hearts are full of humility, compassion, and meekness?  Ma. 
I perceive you are better acquainted with State policy, than Church piety. There may be just occasions for Magistrates to be sometimes sharper in words, and more austere in their countenance, then willingly they would: but if by State you understand disdainful insolency, it is in no hand to be suffered, especially in those that should be parternes to the flock of Christ. Christianity doth always presuppose common civility. Had 
k Minimus Apostolorum.  S. Paul been in Augustine's room, would he have sat as if he had been nailed to his chair? would he not rather have prostrated himself before them, beseeching them as their servant in Christ jesus to be reconciled? Unless you shut your eyes, you may easily judge of the domineering spirit of this new Delegate.  Min. 
Either you must condemn the 
l Discite a me, quia mitis sum, & humilis cord  ground of holy Scripture, upon which that worthy and much reverenced Eremite (to whom they repaired for counsel) did build his direction, or his judgement, in the 
m Si homo Dei est, sequimini illum. Si adventantibus ass●rgat, servus Dei est.  inference and application, wherein he did prophetically divine of the future event. Otherwise your Augustine cannot shake of the generally received opinion of arrogancy.  Nick. 
Gregory being wise discovered the haughtiness of his disposition well enough, as appeareth by his 
* Lib. 9 Epist. 58  Epistle sent unto him, and therefore he took a safe course, for being troubled with him at Rome, to send him into these remote parts, where he might domineer alone, without checkmate. It would make you smile to read how he encouraged him in his voyage, when as upon his return he would have feign stayed at home.  Min. 
Were there no other demonstration of his pride, but the crossing of his Master's charge, that alone were sufficient. So that he might set up his own Ceremonies, he did not much set by Gregory's advertisement.  jab. 
Did not 
n Pag. 184.  Gregory by his Delegate plant the present Roman faith that we now profess? I think you say it more with your tongue, then with your heart.  Min. 
Gregory had formerly written to him, that the same Ceremonies were not necessarily to be exacted in all Churches; and he gives him his reason, Non 
o Bede. lib. 1. cap. 27.  pro locis res, sed pro bonis rebus loca amanda sunt. Notwithstanding he abateth not one grain of his violence in changing the observation of their Easter-tide.  Ma. 
Is not Gregory's doctrine suitable to that which is now holden by the Romanists? Did not he allow of Images, the Supremacy, and 
p Necessarium est trepidare de merito, religiosum est gaudere de dono. Leo.  merit of good works, which they so superstitiously maintain? If not, than it seems Augustine went beyond the limits of his commission indeed.  Min. 
For that I will refer you unto the Appeal, wherein all those points are clearly proved to be extravagant digressions from S. Gregory's faith. For myself, I was never so conceited of my own skill, as to take upon me to better the dressing of that, Quod alius condivit Coquus, which is already so well seasoned.  jab. 
M. Morton 
q Pag, 138.  in his Catholic Apology placeth Gregory in his lists of Papists.  Min. 
He that is willing to be deceived, will easily mistake. He setteth him there down as he is challenged by the Papists, to have been a singular Patron of their now Romish faith, not that he so deemed him, whom he proveth to have been nothing less, in manifold articles, agreeable to our Protestant doctrine.  Nick. 
To what end should we spend any more breath upon him, whose wilfulness will endure no end? Seeing Gregory's proud Delegate is now dismounted, and their glorious Devotion uncased, hic terminus esto.  jab. 
O unhappy Religion, 
r Pag. 189.  the Professors whereof, can find no hope of salvation, without throwing down into hell most eminent Saints, and amongst them the Converters of Nations! O wonderful obstinacy against truth? that makes Christians that would be so thought, prefer Paganism before Christian faith.  Nick. 
salva res est, The Crane now gins to cry quacke. His last weapon is exclamation. M. Mayor, you may do a deed of charity to make him the Town-crier. He hath a throat for the nonce; and beside, Palmas ad sydera tollit. See how passionately he acts his last scene.  Ma. 
He looks I think for his Chariot, to be carried away in state: but his reasons have failed in their attendance, and therefore I think a Dung-cart will serve his turn. I may boldly say he hath hardly earned a blue point for his days work.  Nick. 
Sir, I would you would take some order with him. Let him be first degraded, and then sent back upon his Ass with your passport, as one of Dunces disciples, to the place from whence he came, there to abide with his Copesmate Simon Fitz-Magus; till they be both converted into a glovers shop, or a pasteboard Cover.  Ma. 
You have given him a right doom, (whereof jabal hath already 
s Hold the Covers of his libels against the light, and there shall you find to what use his Stationer hath put his leaves.  tasted) and that very seasonably; for lo how they return thick and threefold from the fair. What a noise do their jewes-trumpes, pipes, rattles, and fiddles make?  Nick. 
All is for joy of jabals' Triumph; they make a May-game at his Conquest, and would gladly drive him out of his melancholy mood. It were pity he should die of the Sullens.  Min. 
I see Nick gins to look towards the Castle; and it is high time for good husbands, to make more haste home; jabals blazing-star hath now spent itself, in an infectious vapour. This days chat will serve as a perfume. He did well to bury his name in the frontispiece of his book, as presaging that his Triumph should be interred in eternal disgrace.  Nick. 
If God send me life and health, my memory shall much fail me, but I will make a Clapper of a quill to ring his Knell. Interealoci, vas valet et plaudite.  Tertull. adverse. Valen. cap. 6. 
Congruit veritati ridere, quia laetans.  
De aemulis suis ludere, quia secura est.   
FINIS.   

Errata.  
Page 16. line 23. Ma. left out. Pag. 23. lin. 17. in, for into Pag. 29. lin. 11. (the) to be left out before jabal. Pag. 53. lin. 2. (of) to be left out before rigorous. Pag. 66. lin. 18. (not) left out between was, and in. Pag. 74. lin. 4. will, for wit. Pag. 86. lin. 29. leave out ut after solidius. Pag. 104 lin. 28. she, for show. Pag. 76. lin. vlt. R. Stock, for I. Stock. Pag. 99 lin. 15. saluatis, for saluati, s too much. Pag. 188. lin. 1. for must, put may. Pag. 206. lin. 15. before look, add to. Pag. 240. Margin, Britannom●dia, for Britannomachia.