THE ANSWER OF Mr. RICHARD HOOKER TO A SUPPLICATION PREFERRED by Mr WALTER TRAVERS to the H H. Lords of the Privy Counsel.  
AT OXFORD, Printed by joseph Barnes, and are to be sold by John Barnes dwelling near Holborn Conduit. 1612.   

Mr hooker's ANSWER to the Supplication that Mr Travers made to the Counsel.  
TO MY LORD OF CANTERBURY HIS GRACE.  
MY duty in most humble wise remembered. May it please your Grace to unde: stand, that whereas there hath been a late controversy raised in the Temple, and pursued by M. Travers upon conceit taken at some words by me uttered with a most simple and harmless meaning in the heat of which pursuit, after three public invectives silence being enjoined him by authority; he hath hereupon for defence of his proceedings, both presented the right Honourable LL. and others of Her majesties privy Counsel with a writing, and also caused or suffered the same to be copied out and spread through the hands of so many, that well-nigh all sorts of men have it in their bosoms; the matters wherewith I am therein charged being of such quality as they are, and myself being better known to your Grace, then to any of their HH. besides; I have chosen to offer to your Grace's hands, a plain declaration of my innocency in all those things wherewith I am so hardly and so heavily charged, lest if I still remain silent, that which I do for quietness sake be taken as an argument that I lack what to speak truly and justly in mine own defence.  
2 First, because M. Travers thinketh it is expedient to breed an opinion in men's minds, that the root of all inconvenient events which are now sprung out, is the surly and unpeaceable disposition of the man with whom he hath to do, therefore the first in the rank of accusations laid against me is my inconformity which have so little inclined to so many and so earnest exhortations and conferences, as myself he saith can witness to have been spent upon me, for my better fashioning unto good correspondence and agreement.  
3 Indeed when at the first, by means of special well-willers, without any suit of mine, as they very well know, (although I do not think it had been a mortal sin in a reasonable sort to have showed a moderate desire that way) yet when by their endeavour without instigation of mine, some reverend and honourable, favourably affecting me had procured her majesties grant of the place, at the very point of my entering thereinto, the evening before I was first to preach, he came and two other Gentlemen joined with him: the effect of his conference then was, that he thought it his duty to advise me not to enter with a strong hand, but to change my purpose of preaching there the next day, and to stay till he had given notice of me to the Congregation, that so their allowance might seal my calling. The effect of mine answer was, that as in place where such order is, I would not break it; so here where it never was, I might not of mine own head take upon me to begin it; but liking very well the motion, for the opinion which I had of his good meaning who made it, requested him not to mislike my answer though it were not correspondent to his mind.  
4 When this had so displeased some, that whatsoever was afterwards done, or spoken by me, it offended their taste, angry informations were daily sent out, intelligence given far and wide what a dangerous enemy was crept in, the worst that jealousy could imagine was spoken and written to so many, that at the length some knowing me well, and perceiving how injurious the reports were which grew daily more & more unto my discredit; wrought means to bring M. Travers and me to a second conference. Wherein when a common friend unto us both, had quietly requested him to utter those things wherewith he found himself any way grieved, he first renewed the memory of my entering into this charge by virtue only of an human creature (for so the want of that 
* A mere formality it had been to me in that place whereas no man had ever used it before me; so it could neither further me if I did use it, nor hinder me if I did not.  formality of popular allowance was then censured;) & unto this was annexed a Catalogue, partly of causeless surmises; as that I had conspired against him, & that I sought superiority over him; & partly of faults which to note I should have thought it a greater offence then to commit, if I did account them faults and had heard them so curiously observed in any other than myself, they are such silly things; as praying in the entrance of my sermons only & not in the end, naming Bishops in my prayer, kneeling when I pray, and kneeling when I receive the Communion with such like, which I would be as loath to recite as I was sorry to hear them objected, if the rehearsal thereof were not by him thus wrested from me. These are the conferences wherewith I have been wooed to entertain peace and good agreement.  
5 As for the vehement exhortations he speaketh of, I would gladly know some reason wherefore he thought them needful to be used. Was there any thing found in my speeches or dealings which gave them occasion, who are studious of peace, to think that I deposed myself to some unquiet kind of proceedings? Surely the special providence of God, I do now see it was, that the first words I spoke in this place, should make the first thing whereof I am accused, to appear not only untrue, but improbable to as many as then heard me with indifferent ears, & do I doubt not in their consciences clear me of this suspicion. Howbeit I grant this were nothing if it might be showed that my deeds following were not suitable to my words. If I had spoken of peace at the first and afterwards sought to molest and grieve him, by crossing him in his function, by storming if my pleasure were not asked and my will obeyed in the least occurrences, by carping needlessly sometimes at the manner of his teaching; sometimes at this, sometimes at that point of his doctrine; I might then with some likelihood have been blamed as one disdaining a peaceable hand when it hath been offered. But if I be able (as I am) to prove, that myself have now a full year together borne the continuance of such dealings, not only without any manner of resistance; but also without any such complaint as might let or hinder him in his course; I see no cause in the world, why of this I should be accused, unless it be lest I should accuse, which I meant not. If therefore I have given him occasion to use conferences and exhortations unto peace, if when they were bestowed upon me I have despised them; it will not be hard to show some one word or deed wherewith I have gone about to work disturbance: one is not much, I require but one. Only I require if any thing be showed, it may be proved, and not objected only as this is, That I have joined with such as have always opposed to any good order in this Church, and made themselves to be thought indisposed to the present estate and proceedings. The words have reference as it seemeth, unto some such things as being attempted before my coming to the Temple, went not so effectually perhaps forward as he which devised them would have wished. An order as I learn there was tendered, that Communicants should neither kneel, as in the most places of the Realm; nor sit as in this place the custom is; but walk to the one side of the Table, and there standing till they had received, pass afterwards away round about by the other. Which being on a sudden begun to be practised in the Church, some sat wondering what it should mean, others deliberating what to do: till such time as at length by name one of them being called openly thereunto, requested that they might do as they had been accustomed which was granted, and as M. Travers had ministered his way to the rest, so a Curate was sent to minister to them after their way. Which unprosperous beginning of a thing, (saving only for the inconvenience of needles alterations otherwise harmless) did so disgrace that order in their conceit who had to allow or disallow it, that it took no place. For neither they could ever induce themselves to think it good, & it so much offended Mr Travers who supposed it to be the best, that he since that time, although contented himself to receive it as they do at the hands of others, yet hath not thought it meet they should ever receive it out of his, which would not admit that order of receiving it, and therefore in my time hath been always present not to minister but only to be ministered unto.  
6 Another order there was likewise devised but an order of much more weight and importance. This soil in respect of certain immunities & other specialties belonging unto it seemed likely to bear that which in other places of the Realm of England doth not take. For which cause request was made to some of her majesties Privy Counsel, that whereas it is provided by a statute there should be collectors & sidemen in Churches, which thing or somewhat correspondent unto it this place did greatly want, it would please their HH. to motion such a matter to the Ancients of the Temple. And according to their honourable manner of helping forward all motions so grounded, they wrote their letters, as I am informed, to that effect. Whereupon although these houses never had use of such collectors & sidemen as are appointed in other places, yet they both erected a box to receive men's devotion for the poor, appointing the Treasurer of both houses to take care for bestowing it where need is, and granting further that if any could be entreated (as in the end some were) to undertake the labour of observing men's slackness in divine duties they should be allowed, their complaints hard all times, and the faults they complained of, if Mr Alveyes private admonition did not serve, then by some other means redressed, but according to the old received orders of both houses. Whereby the substance of their H. letters were indeed fully satisfied. Yet because Mr Travars' intended not this, but as it seemed an other thing, therefore notwithstanding the orders which have been taken and for any thing I know do stand still in as much force in this Church now as at any time heretofore: He complaineth much the good orders which he doth mean have been withstood. Now it were hard if as many, as any way oppose unto these and the like orders in his persuasion good, do thereby make themselves to be thought dislikers of the present state and proceedings. If they whom he aimeth at have any otherwise made themselves to be thought such, it is likely he doth know wherein, and will I hope disclose to whom it appertaineth, both the persons whom he thinketh & the causes why he thinketh them so ill affected. But whatsoever the men be, do their faults make me faulty? They do if I join myself with them. I beseech him therefore to declare wherein I have joined with them. Other joining then this with any man here I cannot imagine: It may be I have talked or walked or eaten or interchangeably used the duties of common humanity with some such as he is hardly persuaded of. For I know no law of God or man by force whereof they should be as Heathens and Publicans unto me that are not gracious in the eyes of another man perhaps without cause, or if with cause, yet such cause as he is privy unto and not I. Could he or any reasonable man think it a charitable course in me to observe them that show by external courtesies a favourable inclination towards him, and if I spy out any one amongst them of whom I think not well, hereupon to draw such an accusation as this against him and to offer it where hec hath given up his against me? Which notwithstanding I will acknowledge to be just and reasonable if he or any man living shall show that I use as much as the bare familiar company but of one who by word or deed hath ever given me cause to suspect or conjecture him such as here they are termed with whom complaint is made that I join myself. This being spoken therefore & written without all possibility of proof, doth not Mr Travers give me over great cause to stand in some fear lest he make to little conscience how he useth his tongue or pen? These things are not laid against me for nothing, they are to some purpose if they take place. For in a mind persuaded that I am as he deciphereth me, one which refuse to be at peace with such as embrace the truth, & side myself with men sinisterly affected thereunto, any thing that shallbe spoken concerning the unsoundness of my Doctrine cannot choose but be favourably entertained. This presupposed it will have likelihood enough which afterwards followeth that many of my Sermons have tasted of some sour leaven or other, that in them he hath discovered sundry unsound matters. A thing much to be lamented that such a place as this which might have been so well provided for, hath fallen into the hands of one no better instructed in the truth. But what if in the end it be found that he judgeth my words, as they do colours which look upon them with green spectacles, and think that which they see is green, when indeed that is green whereby they see.  
7 Touching the first point of his discovery which is about the matter of Predestination, to set down that I spoke, (for I have it written) to declare and confirm the several branches thereof, would be tedious now in this writing, where I have so many things to touch that I can but touch them only. Neither is it herein so needful for me to justify my speech, when the very place and presence where I spoke doth itself speak sufficiently for my cleared. This matter was not broached in a blind Alley, or uttered where none was to hear it that had skill with authority to control, or covertly insinuated by some gliding sentence.  
8 That which I taught was at Paul's Cross; it was not huddled in amongst other matters in such sort that it could pass without noting. it was opened, it was proved, it was some reasonable time stood upon. I see not which way my L. of London, who was present and heard it, can excuse so great a fault as patiently without rebuke or controlment afterwards, to hear any man there teach otherwise then the word of God doth, not as it is understood by the private interpretation of some one or two men, or by a special construction received in some few books, but as it is understood by all Churches professing the Gospel, by them all and therefore even by our own also amongst others. A man that did mean to prove that he speaketh, would surely take the measure of his words shorter.  
9 The next thing discovered, is an opinion about the assurance of men's persuasion in matters of faith I have taught he saith; That the assurance of things which we believe by the word, is not so certain as of that we perceive by sense. And is it as certain? Yea, I taught as he himself I trust will not deny, that the things which God doth promise in his word, are surer unto us then anything we touch, handle, or see; but are we so sure & certain of them? if we be, why doth God so often prove his promises unto us, as he doth by arguments taken from our sensible experience? We must be surer of the proof then of the thing proved, otherwise it is no proof. How is it, that if ten men do all look upon the moon, every one of them knoweth it as certainly to be the moon as another: but many believing one and the same promises, all have not one and the same fullness of persuasion? How falleth it out, that men being assured of any thing by sense can be no surer of it than are, whereas the strongest in faith that liveth upon the earth, hath always need to labour, and strive, and pray, that his assurance concerning heavenly and spiritual things, may grow, increase, and be augmented.  
10 The Sermon wherein I have spoken somewhat largely of this point, was long before this late controversy rose between him and me, upon request of some of my friends seen, & read by many, & amongst many, some who are thought able to discern: and I never heard that any one of them hitherto hath condemned it as containing unsound matter. My case were very hard, if as oft as any thing I speak displeasing one man's taste, my doctrine upon his only word should be taken for sour leven.  
11 The rest of this discovery is all about the matter now in question, wherein he hath two faults predominant, which would tire out any that should answer unto every point severally: unapt speaking of school controversies; and of my words sometimes so untoward a reciting, that he which should promise to draw a man's countenance and did indeed express the parts at leastwise the most of them truly, but perversely place them, could not represent a more offensive visage, then unto me my own speech seemeth in some places as he hath ordered it. For answer whereunto, that writing is sufficient wherein I have set down both my words and meaning in such sort, that were this accusation doth deprave the one, and either misinterpret, or without just cause mislike the other, it will appear so plainly that I may spare very well to take upon me a new and a needless labour here.  
12 Only at one thing which is there to be found, because Mr Travers doth here seem to take such a special advantage, as if the matter were unanswerable, he constraineth me either to detect his oversight, or to confess mine own in it. In setting the question between the Church of Rome and us about Grace and justification, lest I should give them an occasion to say, as commonly they do, that when we cannot refute their opinions, we propose to ourselves such instead of theirs as we can refute, I took it for the best and most perspicuous way of teaching, to declare first, how far we do agree, and then to show our disagreement; not generally (as Mr Travers his words would carry it, for the easier 
His words be these. The next Saboth day after this M. Hooker kept the way he had entered into before, & bestowed his whole hour and more only upon the questions he had moved and maintained. Wherein he so set out the agreement of the Church of Rome with us and their disagreement from us, as if we had consented in the greatest and weightiest points, and differed only in certain smaller matters. Which agreement noted by him in two chief points, is not such as he would have made men believe: The one, in that he said they acknowledge all men sinners, even the blessed Virgin, though some of them freed her from sin: for the Council of Trent holdeth that she was free from sin: Another in that he said, They teach Christ's righteousness to be the only meritorious cause of taking away sin, and differ from us only in the applying of it. For Thom. Aquinas their chief schoolman & Archbish. Catharmus teach that Christ took away only original sin, and that the rest are to be taken away by ourselves yea the Council of Trent teacheth that the righteousness whereby we are righteous in God's sight is inherent righteousness, which must needs be of our own works, and cannot be understood of the righteousness inherent only in Christ's person & accounted unto us.  fastening that upon me, wherewith saving only by him I was never in my life touched;) but about the matter only of justification for farther I had no cause to meddle at that time. What was then my offence in this case? I did as he saith so set it out as if we had consented in the greatest and weightiest points & differed only in smaller matters. It will not be found when it cometh to the balance a light difference where we disagree, as I did acknowledge that we do about the very essence of the medicine whereby Christ cureth our disease. Did I go about to make a show of agreement in the weightiest points, and was I so fond as not to conceal our disagreement about this? I do wish that some indifferency were used by them that have taken the weighing of my words.  
13 Yea but our agreement is not such in two of the chiefest points, as I would have men believe it is: and what are they? The one is I said, They acknowledge all men sinners even the blessed Virgin, though some of them free her from sin. Put the case I had affirmed that only some of them free her from sin, and had delivered it as the most current opinion amongst them, that she was conceived in sin: doth not Bonaventure say plainly, Omnes ferè; In a manner all men do hold this? both he not bring many reasons wherefore all men should hold it? Were their voices since that time ever counted, and their number found smaller which hold it, then theirs that hold the contrary? Let the question then be whether I might say the most of them acknowledged all men sinners even the blessed Virgin herself. To show that their general received opinion is the contrary, the Tridentine Council is alleged peradventure not altogether so considerately. For if that Council have by resolute determination freed her, if it hold as M. Travers saith it doth, that she was free from sin, then must the Church of Rome needs condemn them that hold the contrary. For what that Council holdeth, the same they all do and must hold. But in the Church of Rome who knoweth not that it is a thing indifferent to think and defend the one or the other? So that by this argument; the Council of Trent holdeth the Virgin free from sin, Ergo it is plain that none of them may, and therefore untrue that most of them do acknowledge her a sinner were forcible to overthrow my supposed assertion, if it were true that the Council did hold this. But to the end it may clearly appear how it neither holdeth this nor the contrary I will open what many do conceive of the Canon that concerneth this matter. The Fathers of Trent perceived that if they should define of this matter, it would be dangerous howsoever it were determined. If they had freed her from her original sin, the reasons against them are unanswerable which Bonaventure and others do allege, but especially Thomas whose line as much as may be they follow. Again if they did resolve the other way, they should control themselves in an other thing which in no case might be altered. For they profess to keep no day holy in the honour of an unholy thing; and the Virgin's conception they honour with a 
* This doth much trouble Thomas holding her conception stained with the natural blemish inherent in mortal seed. And therefore he putteth it off with two Answers; the one that the Church of Rome doth not allow but tolerate the Feast, which answer now will not serve; the other that being sure she was sanctified before birth, but unsure how long a while after her conception, therefore under the name of her conception day, they honour the time of her sanctification. So that besides this they have now no solder to make the certain allowance of their feast, and their uncertain sentence concerning her sin to cleave together. Thomas 3. part. quaest. 27 art. 2. ad 2 m & 3m.  Feast; which they could not abrogate without canceling a constitution of Xystus quartus. And that which is worse the world might perhaps hereupon suspect, that if the Church of Rome did amiss before in this, it is not impossible for her to fail in other things. In the end they did wisely quote out their Canon by a middle thread, establishing the feast of the Virgin's conception, and leaving the other question doubtful as they found it: giving only a caveat that no man should take the decree which pronounceth all menkind originally sinful, for a definitive sentence concerning the blessed Virgin. This in my sight is plain by their own words, Declarat haec ipsa sancta Synodus &c: wherefore our countrymen at Rheims mentioning this point are marvelous wary how they speak; they touch it as though it were a hot coal: Many godly devout men judge that our blessed 
Annotat. in Rome 5. See 9  Lady was neither borne nor conceived in sin. Is it their w●nt to speak nicely of things definitively set down in that council? In like sort we find that the rest which have since the time of the Tridentine Synod written of original sin, are in this point for the most part either silent or very sparing in speech; and when they speak either doubtful what to think, or whatsoever they think themselves, fearful to set down any certain determination. If I be thought to take the Canon of that council otherwise then they themselves do, let him expound it whose sentence was neither last asked nor his pen least occupied in setting it down. I mean Andradius whom Gregory the 13. hath allowed 
Lib. 5. defence. fidei.  plainly to confess, that it is a matter which neither express evidence of Scripture, nor the tradition of the Fathers, nor the sentence of the Church hath determined; that they are too surly and self-willed which defending either opinion, are displeased with them by whom the other is maintained; finally that the Fathers of Trent have not set down any certainty about this question, but left it doubtful and indifferent. Now whereas my words which I had set down in writing before I uttered them were indeed these, Although they imagine that the mother of our Lord jesus Christ were for his honour and by his special protection preserved clean from all sin, yet concerning the rest they teach as we do that all have sinned. Against my words they might with more pretence take exception because so many of them think she had sin: which exception notwithstanding, the proposition being indefinite and the matter contingent, they cannot take, because they grant that many whom they count grave & devout amongst them think that she was clear from all sin. But whether Mr Travers did note my words himself, or take them upon the credit of some other man's noting, the tables were faulty wherein it was noted: All men sinners even the blessed Virgin. When my speech was rather All men except the blessed Virgin. To leave this; another fault he findeth that I said, They teach Christ's righteousness to be the only meritorious cause of taking away sin, & differ from us only in the applying of it. I did say & do, They teach as we do, that although Christ be the only meritorious cause of our justice, yet as a medicine which is made for health doth not heal by being made, but by being applied: So by the merits of Christ there can be no life nor justification without the application of his merits: But about the manner of applying Christ, about the number & power of means whereby he is applied we dissent from them. This of our dissenting from them is acknowledged.  
14 Our agreement in the former is denied to be such as I pretend. Let their own words therefore, and mine concerning them be compared. Doth not Andradius 
O●●●od. lib. 3  plainly confess, Our sins doth shut and only the 
In 4 Sent. d. 1 ●u. 4. art 6.  merits of Christ open the entering unto blessedness. And Soto, It is put for a ground, that all since the fall of Adam obtain salvation only by the passion of Christ: howbeit as no cause can be effectual without applying, so neither can any man be saved to whom the suffering of Christ is not applied. In a word who not? when the Council of Trent reckoning up the causes of our first justification, doth name no end but God's glory and our felicity; no efficient, but his mercy; no instrumental, but baptism; no meritorious, but Christ. whom to have merited the taking away of no sin but original is not their opinion: which himself will find when he hath well examined his witnesses Catharinus and Thomas. Their Jesuits are marvelous angry with the men out of whose glean Mr Travers seemeth to have taken this, they openly 
Bellarm. judic. d●lio Concor. Menda●. 18. Nemo Catholicorum unquam sic docuit; sed credimus & profitemur Christum in cr●ce pro omni●●● omnino peccatu 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 originalibus, quam actualibus.  disclaim it, they say plainly, of all the catholics there is no one that did ever so teach, they make solemn protestation, we believe and profess that Christ upon the Cross hath altogether satisfied for all sins, as well original as actual. Indeed they teach that the merit of Christ doth not take away actual sin in such sort as it doth original, wherein if their doctrine had been understood, I for my speech had never been accused. As for the council of Trent concerning inherent righteousness what doth it here? No man doubteth but they make another formal cause of justification than we do. In respect whereof, I have showed already that we disagree about the very essence of that which cureth our spiritual disease. Most true it is which the grand Philosopher hath Every man judgeth well of that which he knoweth, & therefore till we know the things thoroughly whereof we judge, it is a point of judgement to stay our judgement.  
15 Thus much labour being spent in discovering the unsoundness of my doctrine, some pains he taketh further to open faults in the manner of my teaching, as that I bestowed my whole hour and more, my time & more than my time in discourses utterly impertinent to my text. Which if I had done it might have passed without complaining of to the Privy Counsel.  
16 But I did worse as he saith, I left the expounding of the Scriptures and my ordinary calling, and discoursed upon schoolepoints, and questions, neither of edification, nor of truth. I read no lecture in the Law or in Physic. And except the bounds of ordinary calling may be drawn like a purse, how are they so much wider unto him then to me, that he which in the limits of his ordinary calling should reprove that in me which he understood not, and I labouring that both he & others might understand, could not do this without forsaking my calling. The matter whereof I spoke was such as being at the first by me but lightly touched, he had in that place openly contradicted and solemnly taken upon him to disprove. If therefore it were a school question & unfit to be discoursed of there, that which was in me but a proposition only at the first, wherefore made he a problem of it? Why took he first upon him to maintain the negative of that which I had affirmative lie spoken only to show mine own opinion, little thinking that ever it would have a question. Of what nature soever the question were of I could do no less than there explain myself to them, unto whom I was accused of unsound doctrine, wherein if to show what had been through ambiguity mistaken in my words, or misapplied by him in this cause against me, I used the distinctions and helps of schools, I trust that herein I have committed no unlawful thing. These school implements are acknowledged by * grave and wise men 
〈…〉.  not unprofitable to have been invented? The most approved for learning and judgement do use them with out blame; the use of them hath been well liked in some that have taught even in this very place before me; the quality of my hearers is such, that I could not but think them of capacity very sufficient for the most part to conceive harder than I used any; the cause I had in hand did in my judgement necessarily require them which were then used; when my words spoken generally without distinctions had been perverted, what other way was there for me but by distinctions to lay them open in their right meaning, that it might appear to all men whether they were consonant to truth or no. And although Mr Travers be so enured with the city that he thinketh it unmeet to use my speech which savoureth of the school, yet his opinion is no canon, though unto him his mind being troubled, my speech did seem like fetters & manacles, yet there might be some more calmly affected which thought otherwise; his private judgement will hardly warrant his bold words, that the things which I spoke were neither of edification nor truth. They might edify some other for any thing he knoweth, and be true for any thing he proveth to the contrary. For it is no proof to cry Absurdities, the like whereunto have not been hard in public places within this Land since Queen Mary's days. If this came in earnest from him I am sorry to see him so much offended without cause. More sorry that his fit should be so extreme to make him speak he knoweth not what. That I neither affected the truth of God, nor the peace of the Church. Mihi pro minimo est, It doth not much move me when Mr Travers doth say that which I trust a greater than Mr Travers will gainsay.  
17 Now let all this which hitherto he hath said be granted him, let it be as he would have it, let my doctrine and manner of teaching be as much disallowed by all men's judgement as by his, what is all this to his purpose? He allegeth this to be the cause why he bringeth it in: The high Commissioners charge him with an indiscretion and want of duty, in that he inveighed against certain points of doctrine taught by me as erroneous not conferring first with me nor complaining of it to them. Which faults a sea of such matter as he hath hitherto waded in will never be able to scour from him. For the avoiding of Schism and disturbance in the Church which must needs grow if all men might think what they list and speak openly what they think; therefore by a 
* In the Advertisements published in the 7, year of her majesties reign. If any preacher or person, vicar, or curate so licenced shall fortune to preach any matter tending to dissension or to derogation of the religion and doctrine received, that the hearers denounce the same to the Ordinary or the next Bishop of the same place, but not openly to contrary or to impugn the same speech so disorderly uttered whereby may grow offence and disquiet of the people, but shall be convinced and reproved by the Ordinary after such agreeable order as shallbe scene to him according to the gravity of the offence. And that it be presented within one month after the words spoken.  decree agreed upon by the Bishops & confirmed by her majesties authority it was ordered that erroneous doctrine if it were taught publicly should not be publicly refuted, but that notice thereof should be given unto such as are by her Highness appointed to hear & to determine such causes. For breach of which order when he is charged with lack of duty, all the faults that can be heaped upon me will make but a weak defence for him: as surely his defence is not much stronger when he allegeth for himself that, He was in some hope his speech in proving the truth and clearing those scruples which I had in myself, might cause me either to embrace sound doctrine or suffer it to be embraced of others, which if I did he should not need to complain; that, It was meet he should discover first what I had sown and make it manifest to be tars, and then desire their scythe to cut it down; that conscience did bind him to do otherwise than the foresaid order requireth; that he was unwilling to deal in that public manner and wished a more convenient way were taken for it; that he had resolved to have protested the next Saboth day that he would some other way satisfy such as should require it and not deal more in that place. Be it imagined [let me not be taken as if I did compare th'offenders when I do not, but their answers only] be it imagined that a libeler did make this apology for himself, I am not ignorant that if I have just matter against any man the Law is open, there are judges to hear it, and courts where it ought to be complained of; I have taken an other course against such or such a man, yet without breach of duty for as much as I am able to yield a reason of my doing, I conceive some hope that a little discredit amongst men would make him ashamed of himself, and that his shame would work his amendment; which if it did other accusation there should not need; could his answer be thought sufficient, could it in the judgement of discreet men free him from all blame? No more can the hope which Mr Tarvers conceived to reclaim me by public speech justify his fault against the established order of the Church.  
18 His thinking it meet he should first openly discover to the people the tars that had been sown amongst them, and then require the hand of authority to mow them down, doth only make it a question whether his opinion that this was meet may be a privilege or protection against that lawful constitution which had before determined of it as of a thing unmeet. Which question I leave for them to discuss whom it most concerneth. If the order be such that it cannot be kept without hazarding a thing so precious as a good conscience, the peril whereof could be no greater to him than it needs must be to all others whom it toucheth in like causes, when this is evident it willbe a most effectual motive not only for England, but also for other reformed Churches even Geneva itself [for they have the like] to change or take that away which cannot but with great inconvenience be observed. In the mean while the breach of it may in such consideration be pardoned [which truly I wish howsoever it be,] yet hardly defended as long as it standeth in force uncanceled.  
19 Now whereas he confesseth another way had been more convenient, and that he found in himself secret unwillingness to do that which he did, doth he not say plainly in effect that the light of his own understanding proved the way he took perverse & crooked; reason was so plain and pregnant against it, that his mind was alienated, his will averted to another course? yet somewhat there was which so far overruled, that it must needs be done even against the very stream, what doth it bewray? Finally his purposed protestation whereby he meant openly to make it known that he did not allow this kind of proceeding, and therefore would satisfy men otherwise, and deal no more in this place, showeth his good mind in this, that he meant to stay himself from further offending, but it serveth not his turn. He is blamed because the thing he had done was amiss, & his answer is, That which I would have done afterwards had been well, if so be I had done it.  
20 But as in this he standeth persuaded that he hath done nothing besides duty, so he taketh it hardly that the high Commissioners should charge him with indiscretion. Wherefore as if he could so wash his hands he maketh a long and a large declaration concerning the carriage of himself: how he waded in matters of smaller weight, and how in things of greater moment; how warily he dealt; how naturally he took his things rising from the text; how closely he kept himself to the Scripture he took in hand; how much pains he took to confirm the necessity of believing justification by Christ only, and to show how the Church of Rome denieth that a man is saved by faith alone without works of the Law; what the sons of thunder would have done if they had been in his case; that his answer was very temperate without immodest or reproachful speech; that when he might before all have reproved me, he did not, but contented himself with exhorting me before all to follow nathan's example and revisit my doctrine; when he might have followed S. Paul's example in reproving Peter, he did not, but exhorted me with Peter to endure to be withstood. This testimony of his discreet carrying himself in the handling of his matter being more aagreeably framed & given him by an other then by himself, might make somewhat for the praise of his person, but for defence of his action unto them by whom he is thought undiscreet for not conferring privately before he spoke, will it serve to answer that when he spoke he did it considerately? He perceiveth it will not, and therefore addeth reasons such as they are. As namely how he purposed at the first to take an other course and that was this, publicly to deliver the truth of such doctrine as I had otherwise taught, and at convenient opportunity to confer with me upon such points. Is this the rule of Christ, If thy brother offend openly in his speech, control it first with contrary speech openly and confer with him afterwards upon it when convenient opportunity serveth? Is there any law of God or of man whereupon to ground such a resolution, any Church extant in the world where teachers are allowed thus to do or to be done unto? He cannot but see how weak an all●gation it is when he bringeth in his following this course first in one matter and so afterwards in another to approve himself now following it again. For if the very purpose of doing a thing so uncharitable be a fault, the deed is a greater fault, and doth the doing of it twice make it the third time fit and allowable to be done? The weight of the cause which is his third defence relieveth him as little. The weightier it was the more it required considerate advice and consultation, the more it stood him upon to take good heed that nothing were rashly done or spoken in it. But he meaneth weighty in regard of the wonderful danger except he had presently withstood me without expecting a time of conference. This cause being of such moment that might prejudice the faith of Christ, encourage the ill affected to continue still in their damnable ways, and other weak in faith to suffer themselves to be seduced to the destruction of their souls, he thought it his bounden duty to speak before he talked with me. A man that should read this and not know what I had spoken might imagine that I had at the least denied the Divinity of Christ. But they which were present at my speech and can testify that nothing passed my lips more than is contained in their writings, whom for soundness of doctrine, learning, & judgement Mr Travers himself doth, I dare say, not only allow, but honour, they which hard and do know that the doctrine here signified in so fearful manner, the doctrine that was so dangerous to the faith of Christ, that was so likely to encourage ill affected men to continue still in damnable ways, that gave so great cause to tremble for fear of the present destruction of Souls was only this, I doubt not but God was merciful to save thousands of our Fathers living heretofore in popish superstitions, in as much as they sinned ignorantly, and this spoken in a sermon the greatest part whereof was against popery, they will hardly be able to discern how Christianity should herewith be so grievously shaken.  
21 Whereby his fourth excuse is also taken from him. For what doth it boot him to say The time was short wherein he was to preach after me, when his preaching of this matter perhaps aught, surely might have been either very well omitted, or at the least more conveniently for a while differed, even by their judgements that cast the most favourable aspect towards these his hasty proceedings. The poison which men had taken at my hands was not so quick and strong in operation as in eight days to make them past cure; by eight days delay there was no likelihood that the force and power of his speech could die; longer meditation might bring better and stronger proofs to mind then extemporal dexterity could furnish him with; and who doth know whether time the only mother of sound judgement and discreet dealing, might have given that action of his some better ripeness, which by so great festination hath as a thing borne out of time brought small joy unto him that begat it? Doth he think it had not been better that neither my speech had seemed in his eyes as an arrow sticking in a thigh of flesh, nor his own as a child whereof he must needs be delivered by an hour? His last way of disburdening himself is by casting his load upon my back, as if I had brought him by former conferences out of hope that any fruit would ever come of conferring with me. Loath I am to rip up those conferences whereof he maketh but a slippery & loose relation. In one of them the question between us was, whether the persuasion of faith concerning remission of sins, eternal life, & whatsoever God doth promise unto man, be as free from doubting as the persuasion which we have by sense concerning things tasted, felt, and seen. For the negative I mentioned their example whose faith in Scripture is most commended, and the experience which all faithful men have continually had of themselves▪ For proof of the affirmative which he held, I desiring to have some reason, heard no thing but All good writers oftentimes inculcated. At the length upon request to see some one of them, Peter Martyr's common places were brought, where the leaves were turned down at a place sounding to this effect, that The Gospel doth make Christians more virtuous, then moral Philosophy doth make Heathens: which came not near the question by many miles.  
22 In the other conference he questioned about the matter of reprobation, misliking first that I had termed God a permissive and no positive cause of the evil which the schoolmen do call malum culpae; secondly that to their objection who say, If I be elected, do what I will, I shall be saved, I had answered that the will of God in this thing is not absolute but conditional to save his elect believing, fearing, and obediently serving him; Thirdly that to stop the mouths of such as grudge & repine against God for rejecting castaways, I had taught that they are not rejected no not in the purpose and counsel of God, without a foreseen worthiness of rejection going, though not in time, yet in order before. For if God's electing do in order (as needs it must) presuppose the foresight of their being that are elected though they be elected before they be, nor only the positive foresight of their being but also the permissive of their being miserable, because election is through mercy, and mercy doth always presuppose misery: it followeth that the very chosen of God acknowledge to the praise of the riches of his exceeding free compassion, that when he in his secret determination set it down Those shall live and not die, they lay as ugly spectacles before him, as lepers covered with dung & mire, as ulcers putrefied in their father's loins, miserable, worthy to be had in detestation; & shall any forsaken creature be able to say unto God, Thou didst plunge me into the depth and assign me unto endless torments only to satisfy thine own will finding nothing in me for which I could seem in thy sight so well worthy to feel everlasting flames?  
23 When I saw that Mr Travers carped at these things only because they lay not open, I promised at some convenient time to make them clear as light both to him and all others. Which if they that reprove me will not grant me leave to do, they must think that they are for some cause or other more desirous to have me reputed an unsound man, then willing that my sincere meaning should appear and be approved. When I was farther asked what my grounds were, I answered that Saint Paul's words concerning this cause were my grounds. His next demand, what Author I did follow in expounding Saint Paul and gathering the doctrine out of his words, against the judgement, (he saith) of All Churches and All good writers. I was well assured that to control this overreaching speech, the sentences which I might have cited out of Church confessions, together with the best learned monuments of former times, and not the meanest of our own, were more in number then perhaps he would willingly have hard of, but what had this booted me? For although he himself in generality do much use those formal speeches All Churches and All good writers: yet as he holdeth it in pulpit lawful to say in general the paynim think this, or the Heathens that, but utterly unlawful to cite any sentence of theirs that say it; so he gave me at that time great cause to think that my particular alleging of other men's words to show their agreement with mine, would as much have displeased his mind as the thing itself for which it had been alleged. For he knoweth how often he hath in public place bitten me for this, although I did never in any sermon use many of the sentences of other writers, and do make most without any, having always thought it meetest neither to affect nor to contemn the use of them.  
24 He is not ignorant that in the very entrance to the talk which we had privately at that time, to prove it unlawful altogether in preaching either for confirmation, declaration, or otherwise to cite any thing but mere canonical scripture, he brought in The scripture is given by inspiration, and is profitable to teach, improve, etc. Urging much the vigour of these two clauses The man of God and every good work. If therefore the work were good which he required at my hands, if privately to show why I thought the doctrine I had delivered to be according to S. Paul's meaning were a good work, can they which take the place before alleged for a law condemning every man of God who in doing the work of preaching any way useth human authority, like it in me if in the work of strengthening that which I had preached, I should bring forth the testimonies and the sayings of mortal men? I alleged therefore that which might under no pretence in the world be disallowed namely reasons, not meaning thereby my own reason as now it is reported, but true sound divine reason; reason whereby those conclusions might be out of S. Paul demonstrated, and not probably discoursed of only; reason proper to that science whereby the things of God are known; Theological reason without principles in scripture that are plain sound deduceth more doubtful inferences, in such sort that being hard they cannot be denied, nor any thing repugnant unto them received, but whatsoever was before otherwise by miscollecting gathered out of dark places, is thereby forced to yield itself, and the true consonant meaning of sentences not understood is brought to light. This is the reason which I intended. If it were possible for me to escape the Ferula in any thing I do or speak, I had undoubtedly escaped it in this. In this I did that which by some is enjoined as the only allowable, but granted by all as the most sure and safe way whereby to resolve things doubted of in matters appertaining to faith and christian religion. So that Mr Travers had here small cause given him to be weary of conferring, vnlesle it were in other respects then that poor one which is here pretended, that is to say, the little hope he had of doing me any good by conference.  
25 Yet behold his first reason of not complaining to the high Commission is, that sith I offended only through an overcharitable inclination, he conceived good hope, when I should see the truth cleared & some scruples which were in my mind removed by his diligence, I would yield. But what experience soever he had of former conferences, how small soever his hope was that fruit would come of it if he should have conferred, will any man judge this a cause sufficient why to open his mouth in public without any one word privately spoken? He might have considered that men do sometimes reap where they sow but with small hope; he might have considered that although unto me (whereof he was not certain neither) but if to me his labour should be as water spilled or powered into a torn dish, yet to him it could not be fruitless to do that which order in Christian Churches, that which charity amongst Christian men, that which at many men's hands even common humanity itself, at his many other things beside did require. What fruit could there come of his open contradicting in so great haste with so small advise but such as must needs be unpleasant and mingled with much acerbity? Surely he which will take upon him to defend that in this there was no oversight, must beware least by such defences, he leave an opinion dwelling in the minds of men that he is more stiff to maintain what he hath done, then careful to do nothing but that which may justly be maintained.  
26 Thus have I as near as I could, seriously answered things of weight, with smaller I have dealt as I thought their quality did require. I take no joy in striving, I have not been nozled or trained up in it. I would to Christ they which have at this present enforced me hereunto had so ruled their hands in any reasonable time, that I might never have been constrained to strike so much as in mine own defence. Wherefore to prosecute this long and tedious contention no further, shall I wish that your Grace & their HH. (unto whose intelligence the dutiful regard which I have of their judgements maketh me desirous that as accusations have been brought against me, so that this my answer thereunto may likewise come) did both with the one & the other, as Constantine with books containing querulous matter. Whether this be convenient to be wished or no, I cannot tell. But sith there can come nothing of contention, but the mutual waist of the parties contending, till a common enemy dance in the ashes of them both, I do wish heartily that the grave advise which Constantine gave for reuniting of his Clergy so many times upon so small occasions in so lamentable sort divided, or rather the strict commandment of Christ unto his that they should not be divided at all, may at the length, if it be his blessed will, prevail so far at the least in this corner of the Christian world to the burying & quite forgetting of strife, together with the causes which have either bred it or brought it up: that things of small moment never disjoin them, whom one God, one Lord, one faith, one spirit, one baptism, bands of so great force have linked, that a respective eye towards things wherewith we should not be disquieted make us not as through infirmity the very patriarchs themselves sometimes were, full gorged, unable to speak peaceably to their own brother, finally that no strife may ever be hard of again but this, who shall hate strife most, who shall pursue peace and unity with swiftest paces.  
FINIS.