A dialogue describing the original ground of these Lutheran factions, and many of their abuses, Compiled by sir William Barlowe canon, late bishop of bath.  
Anno. 1553.   

¶ A preface of this book, to the reader.  
IN this present treatise following (gentle reder) is not only uttered and disclosed the beastly beginning of Luther's furious faction, in Saxony, with the seditious Schisms of the sacramentaries, Swynglius, Oecolampadius, and other of Swycerlande: but also very plainly here is showed their monstrous manners and mutability, their cankered contentions, and horrible hypocrisy, their devely she devices, and bitter blasphemy, with infinite like relics of that railing religion, whereby the christian reader shall right well perceive, what filthy fruit buddeth out of this frantic fraternity, and sinful synagogue of Satan, infernallye invented, to seduce simple souls. Neither can there be a more open mark, to publish the pestiferous practices of these perverse preachers, and wicked generation, than here is most lively and truly set fourth to the world, by the auctor hereof, who had evident experience of their manners, fashion, and order of all states of them, being long time by his own confession, in their company, and conversant with them, even with those which were of the highest reputation both for soberness of life, & fame of literature, whose doings & doctrine to much misliked him, that for no hatred to them, nor yet favour to other, but even for the discharge of his own conscience, instruction, and information of such as be catholic, he thought it necessary plainly to show the verity thereof, to the end that such as now be addict to their horrible and hay nous heresies, when they shall perceive and see in their life and learning, their crafty and colourable juggling, lewd living, and devilish disagreeing of a muster of monstrous married monks, and false fleshly freers, shall by god's grace both forsake their fashions, detest their doctrine, and leave their learning, which book & dialogue, being for this intent and godly purpose long ago set forth and printed, it hath been thought good for diverse considerations (the print being now worn out) yet eftsoons at this present to be revived, & communicate to the catholic readers, wherefore good reader calling to remembrance the old witty saying: Felix quem faciunt aliena pericula cautum, Happy is he whom other men's perils or dangers do make circumspect or aware: Follow thou the counsel of S. John: who in the. iiii chapter of his canonical epistle saith as followeth: Nolite credere omni spiritui, sed probate spiritus siex deo sint. That is to say, give not credit to every spirit, but do you prove if they be of God.  
Farewell in God.   

¶ A preface of the author to the readers.  
¶ Grace from God the father, and from our lord Jesus christ, with the assistance of the holy ghost.  
WHere as I consider (O christian readers) the danger of writing in the perilous season of these latter days, largely depainted by Saint Paul, even as it proveth now in deed, that certain persons depart from the faith, and give heed to desceatefull spirits and devilish doctrine through simulation of false words, by whose means it is come so to pass, that a little fault is not only taken to the worst, but what so ever is well done, spoken, or written, is oft-times interpreted amiss: no marvel though I so unlearned greatly abash to put myself in jeopardy of these ravyshing wolves, & pytyles soul murderers, which bite with their teeth, and preach peace with their tongues, saying that famous clerks of pregnaunte wits, of excellent erudition, and singular virtue, have so little availed in writing against them: not that these new teachers of ancient heresies, & late authors of old inveterate schisms, are so profound in knowledge of Scriptures, either so invycte of reasonable arguments, that they have not been many times overcome, as they be daily vanquished, but because of their shameless pertinacite, where as they be prostrate and lie grovelling upon the ground, destitute of reason, void of good arguments, and without any sense of truth, then strogle they to woorey men with words of convicious maledictions and seditious slanders, not afraid to despise their sovereigns without regard of their power, contemning all authority, contrary to the doctrine of Saint Peter, saying: Be ye subject to every man for our lords sake, unto the king as chief, and unto the governors as to those that are sent by him for the punishment of the evil & reward of the well doers: for so is the will of God, that doing well ye may stop the mouths of foolish and ignorant people, as free and not as a colour having the liberty of malice, but as the servants of God. notwithstanding in their solemn prefacyes, and painted titles of their errors, they begin with dulcet salutations, of glozing persuasions, under the pretence of a godly zeal, oft-times repeating the word of God, the gospel of christ, his promises, his charity. etc. whereby they would persuade to rude people, that whatsoever they write or teach, are the same things be they never so contrary, even as the comen sort of ungracious wretches do, which in telling lies & report of slanders, will call into their record the troth of God, the holy enange lists, the blessed sacraments, and all the mysteries of our belief: not for any faithful reverence toward them, but to the intent that they might be better believed in their falsehood.  
Many things which are put forth under the title of the word of God, is not his true word in effect, no more than all those which bear the name of Christian men, be not all christian men in troth & deed. Man liveth not only by bread saith scripture, but in every word that cometh out of the mouth of god. Mark here christian readers the word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God, to the which we ought neither to add, nor to take any thing away from it. Arrius, Pelagius, Maniche us, with such other, whom the more part of these sects confess to be heretics, diligently laid the word of God for them, but not out of his mouth: for they applied it by wrong interpretations to the setting for the of their heresies, and not to the glory of God. Saint Pavia healed sick folk, and drove the wicked spyryts from them that were possessed through god's word in the name of Jesus, whose doing the children of Sceve assayed to counterfeit with like words: to whom the spirit answered: I know Jesus and Paul, but what are ye? and so grievously assawting them, he prevailed against their presumption. The aged Prophet of bethel, by whose desceate the man of God sent out of Juda to Jeroboham was slain: alleged the word of God. The false Prophet Sedechias with his company four C. in number, falsely promised king Achab victory to his destruction, laying for their authority the word of God. Ananias resisted the true Prophet jeremy, prophesyenge to the captyne Israhelytes liberty and soon deliverance of their bondage, causing them to trust in his leasing, which he said was the word of God. And generally all other false Prophets boasted themselves to be sent of God, & came to preach his truth, whom he never did send, as he witnesseth with his own mouth in divers places of the bible. Furthermore all such as occupy enchantments, conjurers, & wytches, in their business with many ceremonies rehearse the word of God. Also our saviour Christ saith that many shall come in his name, saying: I am christ, and they shall deceive many, but how? surely in persuading that their doctrine is God's word, and that they be his messengers, his anointed sons and special prophets, So did Simon Magus delude the people of Samary, affirming that he was Christ. Likewise Machomette named himself the great prophet of God. And all other heretics commonly in fortefyenge their abominable heresies, allege the word of God and evangelic verity, according as Martin Luther with the whole rabble of his adherents do daily practise. But what availeth it to recite the word of God, if we interpret it by a false perverted sense?  
What advantage is it to say Lord Lord, and do not as he commandeth us? He that saith I know God, and obseruethe not his commandments, is a liar, and there is no truth in him. The pharisees disciples said to Christ: Master, we know that thou art a true speaker, & thou teachest the way of God in truth, yet thought they nothing so in their hearts. What thing is more easy for these new teachers, than in blazing their authority, to say that their doctrine is the true word of God, and that they have his spirit: where as they admit no interpretation of scripture but their own, in so much that they reject part of the bible because it serveth not to their purpose.  
Concerning the determination of general councils, and authority of ancient doctors of the church, they utterly contemn, except in few things whereout they gather sentences, which falsely depraved and otherwhile changed clean contrary to the authors intent, they make to serve in coulouring their heresy. How shall we then know whether they be the right preachers, & their doctrine the word of god or no? truely christ giveth us a rule infallible, saying: By their fruits ye shall know them. A good tree can bring forth no evil fruit, nor a bad tree can bring forth no good fruit. And they which here the word of God with an earnest and good heart, they hold it fast, bringing forth fruit in patience. Also Saint James describing the expedient condition of christian preachers, and heavenly learning saith: who that among you is wise endued with cunning, let him show his good works out of a good conversation with softness of wisdom. If ye have sour hatred and variance among you in your heart, will not ye rejoice, and be liars against the truth? for this is not the wisdom coming from above, but earthly, bestial and devilish. Where as is enmity & contention, there is inconstancy and all naughty doing. The wisdom that descendeth from God is first chaste, and so peaceable, mild, treatable, full of mercy, and good fruits, without any mysdeming or dyssymulatyon. Now to compare these fruits unto the acts of these Lutheran factyons, ye shall find a far difference. Wherefore seeing that by long experience I have perceived the fashion, manner, and order of all states among them, and was no small while conversant with those which are of highest reputation, both for their soberness of life, and fame of literature: I have thought it necessary for the discharge of my conscience, and information of other, plainly to show the verity as I have known, with out hatred of them or favour of any other persons: which to perform I have here compiled this little process following, under the form of a brief dialogue. Wherein though ye shall read some things so strange for the enormities of them, that divers men, namely the favourers of these sects, will judge them unlykelye of truth, and half impossible to be used among reasonable people endued with any wisdom or learning: yet are they matter in deed, according as ye shall see unfeignedly declared. And be ye full assured that I rehearse not by a great part all the abuses manifestly known by them, nor so many as I could show: which god willing hereafter in process of time may be disclosed more largely. A great occasion why that many be so fervent in favouring this Lutheran doctrine, is the vain praises of much people coming from thence, reporting that there is so good order, such charitable liberality, and evangelic conversation, which is all together false. And divers of such tiding carriers, lest they might seem ignorant in a few things, they frame themselves without shame, to lie in many. It is hard for a renagate frere, a faythelesse apostata, a forlorn coopeman, a merchants prentyce, or an embassatours' ostler, having little learning, less discretion, small devotion, and scant a courtesy of wisdom: to make true report in such matters. And yet are there of them which make themselves full busy, and are as ready to tell that they know not as that that they know, according as they feal their affections disposed whom they covet to please: by which means they attain high commendations, made much of, & are called pretty wise men & proper people, with many goods blessings upon their hearts. Such is the madness of the world and foolish appetites of people, preferring their corrupt affections before right judgement and testimony of their conscience. Truth it is that the germans of old antiquity have deserved special laud for their plains in word and deed void of dissimulation, and for their homely familiarity without acception of p●rsons, in which unto this day, they excel other nations: whereof the original cause many falsely do ascribe to this Lutheran doctrine, being doubtless meru● lousely decayed through it, so that true plainness was not wont to be so scace there among scant good livers, as frauds begin now to be plenty among their new Gospelers. Wherefore (Christian readers) I exhort you all percialite set a part, to fix yourself upon the living word of God which may save your souls, and walk directly after it, bowing neither on the one side nor on the other. I mean not that fleshly word nor their Gospel which say: ye have no free will, your good deeds shall not save you, nor your yldedes shall not damn you, the sacraments of the church be nothing of necessity, ye need not to be confessed to a priest, ye are not bound to obey the laws of the church. etc. but that true word of god & very gospel of our saviour Christ, of whose first sermon the antetheme was this: Do ye penance for the kingdom of God is at hand. And at his last farewell from his Disciples he affirmed the same, saying that in his name it behoved penance to be preached in remission of sins: which manner of preaching the aposties after his ascension observed, continually exhorting the people unto penance, and to the dread of God, which is the beginning of wisdom, the inseparable companion of penance, and necessaty introduction to faith. The word of God bringeth for the penance, according as we read in the acts of the apostles iii the at saint Peter's preaching they were compuncte in heart, and offered themself to penance. This unfeigned penance leadeth men to faith, and is the entre to the gospel, Mar. i. Do ye penance saith Christ, and believe the gospel. Which belief can not be attained without the dread of God. For it is the fullness of science, whereby we come down first to know oure self, & so ascend to the knowledge of God by his word, whereout through hearing faith taketh her effect. The majesty of god's word is of that nature, to prostrate the presumption of man's wisdom & affiance in ourselves, exiling thaffections of carnal liberty, & moving us with a readiness of mind & certain trembling fear to say with saint Paul, Lord what willest thou us to do? This reverent dread had Cornelius Centurio, when the joyful messenger of God appeared unto him, to whom with fear abashed he said: Lord who art thou? in whose commendation it is written there. Acts ten that he was a devout man and dreading god. Likewise. Luk. iij. the sheep herds, when the angel of glad tidings appeared to them, and the brightues of God shone round about them: having this dread, were astonied in themselves, to whom the angel spoke: Be not afraid, ●o I show you great joy that shall be to all people, for there is borne a saviour which is Christ our lord. In Exodo it is written xiiii the people feared God, and so believed him & his servant Moses. And they that dread god, saith the wysemanne, shall not be unfaithful to his word. also Saint John rehearseth in his Apocalypse saying: I saw an angel flying by the mids of heaven, having the everlasting Gospel, that he should preach to the dwellers upon earth, & to every nation, & tribe, and tongue, and people, saying with a great voice: Fear ye God But now cometh the angel of Satan with his idle iustifycations and vain promises, clean contrary persuading that we need no works of penance nor satisfaction for our sins. lieth christ hath satisfied for us all ready, only to believe is enough, withdrawing people from the godly dread. How be it least his deceit should be easily perceived: he transfigureth himself into a true angels likeness, sometime ten ching virtuous manners, brotherly charity, the example of Christ's acts & our needful accomplishment of them, wherein he would seem to profit a few, to the intent he might beguile many. And divers of his Disciples counterfeiting the apostles fashion: other whiles allege scriptures in their right senses, with the same devout sincerity that Sathanne himself did in tempting christ when he said to him: God hath commanded his angels. etc. which was the very scripture truly recited, all though to a wrong purpose. But where as he in his own person could not overcome Christ our head: he ceaseth not to supplant us his Christian members by his false Disciples, and is like still to prevail (our merits deserving the wrath of god) except he of his infinite goodness and gracious pity, vouchsafe to reconcile us again unto his favour, and be our protector: whose mercy is the only stay that we be not all consumed.  
Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, the we may get mercy and find grace to help us at need, continually having in our remembrance the voice of the angel saying: Fear ye God, and give him honour, for the hour of judgement cometh. And worship ye him that made heaven and earth, the sea, and fountains of waters, to whom be praise for ever without end. Amen.  
Far ye well.   

Nicholas. William.  
NOw welcome good brother fromparties of beyond the sea. We have sore longed for your safe return, hoping to hear some news from our Euangelyke brethren of germany, and in what manner the Gospel doth prosper there and go forward.  W. 
Sir I thank you for your welcomming. Howbeit concering your desire, to be certified of them whom ye call evangelic brethren: I assure you unfaynynglye that I like their manner every day worse & worse.  N. 
What have ye so suddenly changed your mind, and begin now to fall from the Gospel forsaking God's word?  W. 
truly I have changed my mind from exrours and wrong opinions, but never intending to renye God's word or Christ's gospel: whereof as far as I can perceive they be destitute and much wide.  N. 
To prove that it were impossible, seeing ye can not deny but that they have Christ'S Gospel in their vulgar speech imprented, free for every body to look upon, with continual exercise of evangelic preaching of God's word.  W. 
In very deed they have the exterior letter, with some outward appearance of zeal toward it. But for all that as touching an evangelic life or a christian conversation, with faithful fruits behovable to the same: they be never a deal nearer in effect than were the Jews, which would have made Christ their king, not for any sincere love that they had to follow him in virtuous living, or for reverence of his godly word, but only in that they thought he would have satisfied their carnal appetites, and seditious affections: whereof to be author he was afterward wrongfully suspect, even as we see now a days his gospel evil spoken upon thorough the slanderous be have our, & wicked demeanour of them, whom in contempt of good people, ye call evangelic & Christian brethren, advancing them selves to be only the true followers and observers of Christ's gospel, where as their living manifestly repugneth. So that after my judgement the chief captains of them may be likened to Theudas & Judas. Act. v. which under a colour of Messiah coming the very saviour and redeemer from all bondage, whose office wrongfully usurping by false promises of liberty, perverted much people of the Jews for to follow them, to their utter undoing and final destruction.  N. 
These sedytious persons to apply unto Martin Luther, and his followers, is both against the truth & witness of your own conscience if ye duly examine it. For it is plain that this Theudas and Judas, of a presumptuous affection and unquietness of mind, without authority of God's word or preferment of his honour, sedycyously moved the people to follow them & not God: where as Martin Luther with such other evangelic preachers, advance not presumptuouselye themselves but god only, neither persuade the people to follow them but Christ: whose Gospel long season obscured by men's traditions, they labour to bring unto light, and to restore the captived consciences of ignorant folk unto the freedom of God's word, whereof much people now a days are no less desirous than the Jews were of their deliverance of bodily captivity.  W. 
To answer you in this point, I doubt nothing but this Theudas and Judas pretended to the people (whom they finally deceived) the authority of God, & that they were specially sent of him for their deliverance, showing some coloured appearance unto the same: Like as Martin Luther in the beginning pretended a marvelous zeal & tender affection toward the blind ignorance of people, for to reduce them unto the clearness of knowledge, showing such a fervent spirit, that he was judged to be syngulerlye chosen of God now in these latter days, for a due reformation of the hole world.  
But consider to what open mischief his secret malignity burst for the at last, and how many thousands by occasion of his doctrine have perished and daily perish both in body and soul: whereof to have a further declaration, if ye will hear me with patience, I shall so describe unto you the fashion of him and of his adherentes, that ye may evidently know that they are no Disciples of Christ, but of antichrist, no true doctors but false dysceavers, no Apostles but apostatas, and patrons of perversity,  N. 
Now I beseech you them to proceed on your purpose, declaring it at length: and I shall gladly give you the hearing with out interruption, trusting verily that all partiality set apart, ye will show the very truth, according as ye have perfectly known by experience. And thus doing ye may settle many men's hearts at rest in this troublous season, so sore encumbered with contentions and sundry opinions of learned men, that they can not tell what party they may best lean unto.  W. 
Sir first of all I protest here, that I intend to speak no further than I have perceived among them myself, or else perfectly informed by credible persons, of whose certification I ought to have no mistrust. Wherefore for to god unto my purpose, ye shall understand that this Martyne Luther chief Captain of new heretics, & bringer forth of old heresies, was a friar augustine in the city of Wittenberg, under the dominion of Fredrick duke of Saxony. Which duke obtained a pardon fro Rome for the building of a certain college there within his own palace, whereof Martin Luther was a great setter forward, until the time that thither came a Jubelye from the Pope, dysanulling the dukes pardon among other for a season: wherewith Martin Luther not a little offended, endeavoured himself to preach against it. And soon after he put for the in print a treatise De indulgentijs, inveing against the grant of pardons how be it so closely, that he was supposed not to have condemned the authority but only the abuse, which to say the truth was to far out of frame in that proviuce. And also he took in hand to preach the plain texts of scripture, dysclosing the blindness of the world, and detecting the faults of all estates, both high and low, spiritual and temporal, under such moderation that he was taken for a prophet of God among them, and grew in estimation of the people daily more and more. notwithstanding he pretended to take no part with any feet other faction of Heretics, as Wicklyf, Hus, Berengarius, and such other whom he utterly condemned, dyssalowing the Boemes, because they separated them selves from the church of Rome, constantly affirming the pope to be Christ's vicarye. Thus he played the wolf in a lambs skin a while secretly, till his fruits gave evidence & openly bewrayed what he was in effect For shortly after he altered his mind, & revoked that he had spoken before, wysshing all his books that were imprinted to be burned & utterly destroyed. Then began he stoutly to fortify his feigned faith void of good works, persuading liberty and assurance of salvation to the defacing of charitable deeds and suppression of the dread of God. Then preached he pleasant things to his audience, how no man was bound to confess him unto a priest, neither to observe the prescription of prelate's about fastings and exception of meat and drink, and that no person needed to pain himself with works of satisfaction, whiles christ had paid enough for us all. Also how constitutions of Popes and bishops bind us nothing.  
Then all his Sermons were against the clergy, calling the Pope Antichrist, and his followers disciples of Satan's synagogue, in whose defiance he made a book entituled, De captivitate Babilonica, full of convicious furies, and raging blasphemy against the blessed Sacraments, preferring his own judgement above the holy doctors of the church. And where as he had witnessed before, that Micklyfe, Hus, Berengarius, & such other were heretics: than he said that they were godly men and saints, calling their condempners Antechristes' and limbs of the devil. Furthermore to bring kings, princes, and temporal governors in contempt of their subjects: he spared neither by preaching nor teaching to rail against them, sometime privily where he durst not discover his malice for fear of displeasure, and sometime apartelye there as he thought himself in no danger of them on whom he railed: as witness the letters of conspiracy which he craftily forged to destroy the Duke George of saxony.  
Also the outrageous treatise that he wrote against the kings highness both in latin & Duchess, so shameless and sedicyouselye, that it is not only condemned of good men, but also abhorred of his own adherents. Yet all this while he forbore the commons & uplandy she people, and encouraged them to note other men's vices, rather than to amend their own faults, alleging oftentimes unto them, tyranny of princes oppression of the clergy, with other manifold miseries and wretched calamities, which he said they were wrongfully compelled to suffer. Whereby within small process of time, they took such a stomach, that the dread of God and man set aside, they arose up with open sedition in divers parties of germany above the number of an hundred thousand persannes, in such a furious fashion, that every man almost stood in fear of his life. Wherefore M. Luther perceiving no small jeopardy toward him through their insurrection, because the occasion of it was laid to his charge as it was in deed: immediately to shift himself from suspicion and dangerous displeasure of the princes & great men he wrote hastily a book void of all christian charity and natural compassion, against the said commons or upiandy she people, so extremely that it would abhor an he than heart to here or read it, enforcing every man without any respect of pity, to kill and slay them as hounds: of whom were miserably slain in one place and another, above iii score thousand persons, the residue being now a life in far greater misery & calamity than ever they were afore. After this fell a dissension between M. Luther and Carolstadius, about the Sacrament of the altar. For Carolstadius denieth in it the bodily presence of Christ, affirming that when he spoke these words: Hoc est corpus meum he meant them of his own corporal body and not of the Sacrament: where as M. Luther holdeth the contrary, all be it he began to fall from it, as his own writing testifieth, had he not been prevented by this Carolstadius, whom the wicked arrogauncy of his stomach could not suffer to be author of so high an heresy, where of he coveted himself to have been father. This variance enduring betwixt them: divers forsook M. Luther and leaned to Carolstadius side, & many malicious letters fraudulently forged, were conveyed from the one to the other, with calummous preachings, ye and when they met together, more ready with fists than with patient arguments to try their cause had they not been sondered. Notwithstanding through favour of the duke and other valiant friends, M. Luther so prevailed against him that he was excommunicate: & being a man of ancient age, an old priest newly married, and some time archedeaken of Myttenberge, was fain to leave his young wife, and avoid the dominion of Saxony. After that he had wandered through divers cities and towns swading his opinion with odious report, to the minishing of M. Luther's fame: at last he came to Scirich in Swisser land, where he found one according to his execrable appetite, named Swynglyus, which was there an exceeding setter forth of M. Luther's doctrine. To whom as soon as he had disclosed his detestable heresy against the blessed sacrament, he gladly accepted him, and in denying the corporal presence of Christ, agreed both in one, saving in this point they differed: where as Carol stadius said that our savour christ speaking these words: Hoc est corpus meum, meaned his corporal presence there sitting with his disciples at the table & not in form of bread: Swinglius affirmed that they were not to be understanded lytterallye, but by a figure of interpretation, so that est was taken for significat, and these words of christ, this is my body, were as much to say, as this signifieth my body. Of this matter he wrote sundry epistles to divers of his familiar friends, gloriously rejoicing that he had found out the long unknown true thee, of so high a mystery: not by the occasion of Carolstadius (as he boasted) but through his own diligent reading of Scripture, & specially of Saint Augustyns works, who in very deed is clean contrary to his horrible heresy. Nevertheless many of M. Luther's adherentes assented unto him, among whom the chief was Oecolampadius: which being a secular priest of xl years of age, entered the religion of saint Brygyttes order in the province of bavary, and for heresies that he had uttered both by preaching and writing, standing in danger of the Dukes attachiament, he ran away pryvylye with a nun of the place, whom soon after he forsook, and got him for refuge to a Lutheran Prince named Frances de Sychken, a noble personage by birth, but a cruel tyrant of behaviour, a great murderer, a common spoiler of merchants and a rovere of high ways, which maintained him and one Hutten a knight of the new Gospel, given holy to mischief, till at the least for fear of displeasure of other princes, he was driven to put them away. Oecolampadius came then to basil, and there he found many favourers of M. Luther's faction: by whose aid he was promoted to be curate of a parish church. Where he handled his matters with such cloaked hypocrisy, that he wan many men's hearts, craftily sowing seditious disturbance betwixt the temporalty & the spiritualty, in such wise that the hole city was oftentimes in apparel of insurrection, and in danger to be destroyed.  
But though he approved the opinion of Swinglius with preferrment above Carolstadius: yet conceived he another private understanding, saying, that Hoc est corpus meum, ought thus to be interpreted: this is a figure or a representation of my body, alleging tertullian, Chrisostome & saint Austen for his authority, whom he understandeth a miss, and reciteth falsely, sometime adding more to their words, sometime taking away from their sentences. In this space Martin Luther wrote a convicious book against Carolstadius, and he an answer to the same of like spirit, and semblable charity, so that Swinglius and his company whiles other men wondered at their madness, laughed them both to scorn. Carolstadius perceiving that he was not so highly esteemed as he reckoned to have been, also longing very sore for the company of his young wife: at last he made means to be reconciled again to Martin Luther and his church, which was granted him upon condition that he should revoke his opinion of the sacrament, whereto he agreed albeit he held not long touch with them. But as soon as he had recovered his wife again, he got him out of the way, into a village, & there kept a common tavern, busily uttering his old heresies. and daily contryving new. Thus in Germany much unquietness increased and trouble out of measure, with intolerable variance between secular people and the clergy: many dyf famed libels & slanderous writings every where dispurpled abroad. And where as was but one faction before, only of the Lutherans: than sprang there up another, which be called Oecolampadians or Swynglianes, out of whom issued also the third faction named anabaptists, containing above xl seetes of divers heresies and sonderye opinions  N. 
In good faith ye tell here a shrewd tale by them. And if it be true as ye rehearse, I like their manners a great deal worse than I did. But specially I marvel that they be divided into so many factions & sundry sects saying they pretend to profess the only doctrine of christ, which nourisheth no such contencyous diversity: for he is the God of peace & not of dissension  W. 
I ensure you there be in Germany iii C. sects above the number that I have named, of whose variable opinions, I cold partly make rehearsal if I had convenient opportunity.  N. 
Now I pray you for the satisfying of my conscience and of divers other which peradventure have been deceived and brought to errors, by the feigned report of them, which would dilate their heresies underneath the colour of virtuous living, boldly affirming in reproach of our catholic believe that among them is perfit peace, concord, true love and charity, freely administered to every one in necessity without respect of persons. But first I would that ye declared somewhat of the iii principal factions.  W. 
The first as I have showed you are called Lutherans, because they follow Luther's doctrine. The second likewise are called Oecolampadyanes' or Swynglyans, and are as one with the Lutherans in railing against the clergy, and in contemning the authority of the church, but in the sacrament of the altar they be greatly repugnant: and so far at variance, that they have made large volumes full of outrageous furies one against another, in such uncharitable manner that it exceedeth the blasphemous contentions of all heretics and infidels that ever were before our days. ye their hateful ennemyte is so malicious, that if any of the Oecolampadyanes' resort among the Lutherans: they shallbe excommunicated as heathen persons, and find very small charity, which they call love after the new interpretation. And in like manner the Lutherans shall find as little favour among the Oecolampadyanes'. The third faction be called Anabaptysts, because they are twice Chrystened, and will admit none as their faithful brethren except they be rebaptyzed again. They suffer not their children to be Chrystened until they be of great age, and have many strange opinions. They affirm that it is impossible for Kings, princes, justices, and other governors of the common weal, to be Christian men. They obstinately hold that it is unlawful for a judge to require any oath of a Christian man. They say that christian men ought to make no provision nor resistance against their enemies but freely suffer them to do their will. Also they show holy perfection outwardly, observing vigils, fastings, with continual reading of scripture, ready to help their needy brethren, using their goods in common. And they dispraise much the living of the Lutherans & Oecolampadians, saying as I have hard them myself report, that they be worse than the clergy, whom they call Papists, for because they have the Gospel in their months and frame their lives nothing thereafter, showing none amendment of their ●ewd conversation, but continue still in vicious excesses after the common rate of misbelievers. And therefore they be in grievous hatred and suffer much persecution of the other, as excommunication, exile, emprysonment, & oftentimes cruel execution of death: insomuch that it is enacted throughout Suytzerland among the Oecolampadyanes', and in divers other places, that whosoever is found of the anabaptists faction, he shall be thrown quick into the water, & there drowned.  N. 
Isee well than saying and doing are not all one. For I am informed that Martin Luther hath written extremely against the persecution of Prelates, affirming it to be against the spirit of God to persecute or to put to death for unbelief or errors considering that faith (as he doth say) is a gift of god, & no man may have it of himself. Also because christ never compelled any man to believe in him, commanding the weeds to be suffered among the corn, until the harvest cometh  W. 
No fail he wrote so at the beginning, but after ward experience taught him the contrary. For if so be that he & the Oecolampadians had permitted their clientes to do what they lusted without any restraint: they had been quite out of authority ere this time a day. upon which consideration it was forfended in all cities and iurisdictiones of the Lutherans, that no man should buy or sell other receive any book or treatise compiled by the Oecolampadyanes'. And they in like manner made acts to suppress the anabaptists, fearing lest their sects should vaynquysh their faction.  N. 
If the Anabaptists have so many sects as ye recite, I pray you to declare some of them.  W. 
At your instance I shall gladly. There be some which hold opinion that all devils & damned souls shall be saved at the day of doom.  
Some of them persuade that the Serpent which dysceaved Eve was Christ. Some of them grant to every man and woman two souls. Some affirm lechery to be no sin, & that one may use another man's wife without offence. Some take upon them to be sooth say ers and Prophets of wonder full things to come, and have prophesied the day of judgement to be at hand: some with in three months, some with in one month, some within vi. days. Some of them both men and women at their congregatyons for a mystery▪ show themselves naked, affirming that they be in the state of innocency. Also some hold that no man ought to be punished, or suffer execution for any crime or trespass be it never so horrible, whereof I will show you an example done matter in deed. In Switzerland a little from saint Gal, at a place named Cella Abbatis, one of these anabaptists slew his own brother, & smote of his head. When he was demanded why he did so, this was his answer: It was the will of the father that I should do it, and so he escaped without punishment. For though they be greedy in reproving other men's faults, making heinous exclamations against them: yet ponder they full little the correction of their own enormities, calling them infirmities and weakness of the flesh be they never so abominable  N, 
Well yet me thinketh by your saying here before, that many of them lead a more commendable life in face of the world than the common sort of the Lutherans or Oecolampadians,  W. 
ye verily unto the outward ostentation. But there cometh greater inconvenience by them which have such a shadow of holy living, than by the other. And there is nothing more perilous in sedu cing the simple, than a painted pretence of an holy life, where as they swerver once from the right faith and catholic belief. Which is easy to be proved by evident examples as well of the old heretics, as of our new Captains of the most high heresies. And to show you the truth as I have expertely found, some I have known so angelic of conversation, that I could have found in my heart to commit my soul wholly into their direction: whom afterward I have perfectly perceived to be auctors of such detestable heresies, that it would make a christian heart to tremble for to hear them once named. And to tell you of one among many. I was acquainted with a certain person of the Oecolampadians in the city of argentine, which led a life inculpable among his neighbours, and was reputed of virtuous conversation, exercising himself continually in chartable works, and understood freshelye the scriptures in his mother tongue, for he was ignorant of Latin. afterward he fell into so abominable heresy, that he denied openly the new testament saying that Christ was a false Prophet, and all his apostles discevers, accepting no part of the old Testament, but the five books of Moses. The chief preachers and learned men of the city came unto him for to reform him by way of dysputatyon, and to bring him from his error, requiring him to show what ground of Scripture, or what occasion moved him to take so perilous opinion. To whom he answered coldly with soft words & demure countenance, how he would neither dispute nor argue with them, saying that it was his belief & was assured of God with witness of his conscience to be true. upon this incontinent he was imprisoned and at last brought before the lords of the town, which in like manner exhorted him to revoke his heresies, manacing him with fear of terrible death, if he would not change his erroneous mind. He answered that he was ready to suffer whatsoever death God had ordained him unto, and would neither for fear, nor for favour go from his opinion. Wherefore after a sufficient deliberation, saying he would turn by no means, sentence was given that he should be burned.  N. 
In good faith well worthy: but was he burned in deed?  W. 
No. For when he should have gone to the place of execution, according to the usance of the country, he was first brought before the town house, and there his articles recited. He was asked whether they were the very same which he had affirmed before them. He answered ye. Howbeit now (he said) God hath opened my ignorance, & I acknowledge me slaunderousely to have erred, asking you all forgiveness. I believe perfitly that Jesus christ is my saviour, and am ready in his faith to suffer this death prepared for me. The lords then where as they had given sentence that he should have been burned, for a more easy death, they assigned him to be be heeded, whereof he thanked them, and went toward the place of justice, patiently taking his death with great repentance.  N. 
This may be a good admonisshment that men should not be so wavering in faith, as to give credence in all things to any person for the only pretence of exterioure holiness, in as much as the devil can transfygure himself into an angel's likeness, and a false perverter take upon him the office of a true Apostle. Moreover I consider by your communication, and plain experience here rehearsed, that if the froward sturdiness of unruly people were not restrained by laws, prohibitions, & sharp punishments, every common weal would be soon subverted, and the whole world come to nought.  W. 
As for that ye may take example not far hens at the county of Emdone in East Fryselande, where the earl, ruler of the county, first receiving Martin Luther's doctrine, & afterward Oecolampadius opinion? suffered his people to read all manner of Books, and to be of what so ever sect or opinion they would without any restraint. shortly after one of their chief preachers which had been a freer obseruante, a man of subtile learning, and pleasant speech, highly esteemed among the people: began to preach in openne audience against the blessed trinity, saying that there was but one person, one God, and that our saviour Christ was a creature as we are, a pure man, and not God, but having god's spirit. This caused not a little discord between the preachers and the people, for many of the country leaned unto him taking his part so strongly that the earl was fain to banish him out of his dominion, all be it his pestiferous seed remained still. Then came thither doctor Balthasar, and after him Carolstadius, bringing in the faction of the anabaptists, to the augmenting of greater confusion. For where as some christened their children their next neighbours would not, one condemning another with deadly hatred. The mean ●eason a certain skinner of Denmark in the Dukedom of Holsatye, where Martyne Luther's doctrine was only in strength, preached Oecolampadius opinion with so crafty arguments, that Martynes fame began to decrease. Wherefore doctor Pomerane was sent from Wyttenberge to dispute against him, and in conclusion obtained the victory through partial favour (as some reported) of the duke and Lords of the cities of Homburghe and bream: which immediately commanded that no man should be so hardy to contrary or swerver from the doctrine of Martin Luther, under pain of banishing, and other punishment. Then two preachers of bream were sent to Emdone to dyswade the earl & his people from Oecolampadius opinion, and from the confuse diversity of other sects, also to reduce them again unto Martin Luther's ways. The earl with his council at their persuasions alienated their minds from Oecolampadius, straightly charging all those preachers which had sustained his faction, or any other, saving Martin Luther's, to depart out of his country by a certain day appointed. Then was it a wonder to see what murmuration, grudge, and rumour of sedition was among the people, not without likelihood of falling together by the ears, & insurrection against their prince, had not he sought provident means to pacify them. This continued no long space but letters came from argentine, basil, zyricke, Bearne, and from many persons of notable erudition, after their esteeming, also from the prince of Hesse, advertising the earl with serious exhortation, to call home again the preachers of Oecolampadius faction, and reprehending his sudden mutabylytie from their institute, so apparent by manifest conjectures to prevail above the other. At whose importune requests and subtile instigations, he changed yet again his purpose, and gave the Oecolampadian preachers licence to return into their old places, and liberty to preach as they were before accustomed: commanding silence unto the other, or else avoidance of his country. Lo thus may ye see what variable inconstancy and sundry mutations of condemned heresies hath ensued with evident confusion, where as people be divided from the v●itye of the christian church, & contemn to walk after the wholesome decrees of catholic fathers, wresting the right sense of scriptures unto their crooked imaginations. And specially where the bridle of sensuality is set at large, to the sturdy frowardness of seditious subjects, sometime by the effeminate tenderness of princes, so negligently regarded, the afterward their fearful rigour is scant able to redress it: which hath been the lamentable decay of the Boemes, and is now the ruinous mischief of the high Almains, not unlikely to be the desolation of christendom if remedy be not found in season.  N. 
Saving your patience me thought ye declared here that the Land grave of Hesse is a favourer of Swinglius & Oecolampadius, who with his people as I understand admitteth Martin Luther's ways and none other.  W. 
I will not deny but he maintaineth still Martin Luther's doctrine, albeit since the disputation was before him, he hath favoured so greatly the opinion of Oecolampadius and Swinglius, that were it not as I dame for fear of displeasing his confederate cousin the duke of Saxony, and frentyke perturbation of Martin Luther, he would have sustained it openly ere this time. witness the glorious commendation unto their faces whiles they were present, and singular preferrment of them among his familiar counsellors, also his benevolent liberality at their departing with letters afterward betwyxe them farsed full of painted praises in their absence.  N. 
I beseech you when and under what manner was this disputation.  W. 
In the year of our Lord. 1528. the prince of Hesse in his chief city of Marburge caused there to be assembled Martin Luther, Melancton, Oecolampadius, Swinglius, Capito, Butzer with many other of the most famous clerks of the Lutherans and Oecolampadianes (the anabaptists only excluded) where divers articles were doubtfully proponed to the number of xu which before time had been discussed and clearly determined in general counsels of the universal church. And when they had by long process unfruitfully disputed about the justification of faith without good works: of baptism, and other questions upon which they had written whole books: yet in the end were they driven to the old determination of the church, save least their writings should seem in vain, & their assembling to be ydie, they found out some contrariety of so slender importancye, that men may plainly judge in them, other invincible arrogance disdaining to be reform, or else obstinate malice, seeking for the nonce to impugn the truth. Concerning the sacrament of the altar wherein rested the principal matter of their disputation, they greatly varied and could by no means agree.  
How be it they concluded at last, that each part holding them content with their belief, should depart in loving friendship, without any odious writing from thence forth one against another.  N. 
whether of them obtained the victory?  W. 
They divided it between them while they were present. But soon after their departing, the Lutherans ascribed it to Martin Luther, and contrary the Oecolompadianes unto Oecolampadius and Swynglyus.  N. 
Use they such crafty conveyance in promoting their Gospel?  W. 
ye hardly, and that without any shame when they be detected of it, inforsing men against their wills to be fautors of their heresies. Did not No●iomagus gather certain sentences out of Erasmus works, which falsely depraved, he coupled unto Martin Luther's assertions, and caused them to be imprinted: blazing abroad that Erasmus and Luther were of one opinion, to the slanderous hindrance of his profitable study? of whom after much other detraction, he was not ashamed to crave subsidy in his beggarly indigence. Also Butzer played a like pageant with Pomeran in translating his Psalter out of latin into the Almaigne tongue. For where he espied any occasion to treat of the blessed Sacrament: he plucked out Pomerans' sentences, and graffed in his own after no compendious fashion: which as soon as they were en printed, the fame noised over all that Pomerane (unknowing to him) was one with the Oecolampadianes, which afterward he apartely detested in divers epistles, discovering the falsehood of Butzer. Such subtle drifts I may tell you among them is daily not unpractised.  N. 
Well, ye have here rehearsed many things against them, wherein if I and such other would give credence unto your sayings without surmise of percialite, we should soon turn our affection from their learning. But seeing ye have been a favourer of them, and per adventure both spoken and written as largely as the rankest of them all whom ye now call heretics: fain would I wit what motioned you to take it in hand so earnestly, and now to shift yourself from it so lightly.  W. 
To show you the truth without dissimulation how I was enticed unto their faction, the very beginning was this. I had red certain treatises of Martin Luther, of the justification only by faith without good deeds, how man had no free will, how our good works availed us nothing to be saved, neither our ill deeds should cause us to be damned, and many other articles which he falsely presumed to ground upon scripture. Also I diligently noted how he describe the abuses of Popes, Cardinals, bishops, priests, and religious persons, declaring how the present decay of the church, far differed from the perfection of the Apostles and holy fathers, at the first begin ning: wherein he made no lie though in other things he spared the truth. Furthermore giving ear to the pleasant rumors of his reformations, highly commended among new-fangled people: it set mine heart so on fire, that I could not rest until I had been there with them. After that I had seen Martin Luther, Pomerane, Melancton, & heard their preachings, perceiving their order there in saxony: I went into high Almaigne, unto the Oecolampadians, & remaining there among them, was oftentimes conversant with the anabaptists. In the mean space I saw many wonderful alterations, as destroying of monasteries, plucking down of churches, casting out of images, breaking of altars, and carrying the consecrate stones to the building of their bulwarks, also marriages of priests, monks, freers, nuns, contempt of holy days, anulling of vigils, fasting of the lent, and embring days clean reject with other laudable ordinances instytute by the church. All places of scripture where mention is made of Antichrist, false prophets, masters of lies, & such other▪ they violently applied unto the clergy, naming themself christian brethren, disciples of Christ, and apostles of his Gospel. In denying purgatory and authority of the pope, if they found in ancient auctors as much as a corrupt title of a pistle swooning any thing to their purpose, all be it the epistle self made whole against it: yet would they take it as the word of god and sure revelation of the spirit. Contrary wise, yfanye alleged Austen, Jerome, Cypryane, or Chrysostom against them they would admit their sentences for none authority, saying they were men, & all men were liars. In like manner concerning the sacrament of the aultare, where they red in doctors of the spiritual eating and ghostelye being: they only accepted that, and under the colour thereof they would exclude the corporal eating and bodily presence of Christ, to the establysshinge of their blasphemous errors: which they shadowed under the covert of hypocrisy and persuasions of perverted scriptures, in such wise that openly seeing I could not perceive them, until it pleased God of his inestimable goodness to bring me out of the land of darkness and region of death, unto the clearness of his knowledge & living light of truth. I can not excuse me but among the wicked I endeavoured myself to have done evil: but God so mercifully prevented me, that it came to small effect in doing any harm. If I have been occasion of any man's fall or cause of slander, I am sorry for it and ask forgiveness. notwithstanding I never defended any opinion obstinately, neither despised the admonition of any virtuous person: that I have erred was through ignorance, and of no malicious pertynacite. Where ye be in perplexity of credence giving unto my words, I am sure if that I spoke according to your appetite, ye would put no diffidence in me whether I said the verity or lied: for it is a plain case among the favourers of these new sects. that they will refuse no forged tales making aught for their side, be they never so false. And seeing ye believed me in error: ye ought not to mistrust me now in my faithful revocation, voluntary, and not coacted.  N. 
Clearly many men presuppose that other ye be deluded by the flattering persuasion of some worldly persons or else utterly given into a reprobate mind, through greedy desire of earthly promotion and appetite of idle living.  W. 
It is not in my power to stop the wrong surmise, or miss report against me, now enemy unto their errors whiles they abuse the same to the friends of their heresies: namely where as Satan is loosed at large, and the dying ghost the spirit of untruth, walketh at liberty unrestreyned. Would God they were as priest to remove the balk out of their own eyes, as they be prompt to aspye a little mote in other men's. They cry out sore upon the wordly wisdom and carnal prudence of other persons, calling them tyrants and ministers of Antichrist, where as I can perceive none more greedy of carnal policies and fleshly aid of tyrants than they be. Were he never so cruel a creature, or mischievous fiend that is turned to their factions, they receive him for an evangelic disciple, his malicious mind nothing minished, although percase his doing of mischief is restrained by poverty or some other miserable impediment against his will. And if any body speak aught against such perverse penitentes, forth with they allege the unpitious fierceness of saint Paul before his conversion, the sins of Mary Magdalene and her penance, also the example of Christ receiving publicans and sinners, and how the angels of heaven joy more upon one penitent sinner. etc. Lu. xv. I pray you what a ghostelye patron was Hutten their furious champion, a man not only overwhelmed with heresies, but also stuffed full of all unhappiness, whose horrible end was according to his mischievous life. For after that he had been plagued with the french pocks, and was healed of them seven sundry times: he myscrably died of them in an isle of Swicherland in extreme poverty abhorred of all people, his vile carcase eaten with sores, more stinking then any carrion, so that uneath any body might abide the loathsome staunch of it. Moreover I beseech you with what christian spirit did Frances of Syckhym defend them, a subverter of peace, a burner of poor men's houses, & a troubler of all Germany, up 'pon whom the vengeance of God did light, and was suddenly slain in a Castle beside Crutzynacke to the infamy of his aunceters and disheritance of his children. I pass over the captains of the uplandish people and their insurrection, partly touched before.  N. 
Ye wots well enough that Martin Luther did writ against them, condemning their seditious enterprise.  W. 
So did he indeed when it was to late void of remedy. But as long as they were in any lyklyhod to prevail, he rather supported them. What heavenly wisdom did the monstrous figures signify, where M. Luther was portrayed with a book in his hand, & by him Hutten his protect our in complete harness holding a drawn sword, with certain texts underneath provoking sedition. And as for idleness, I saw no man more fauty in it than them selves: except ye account that for profitable business when they be neither idle nor well occupied. Are there not a great infinite number among them, that can lay sharply to other men's charges the commandment of God genen to Adam: In sweet of thy face thou shalt eat thy bread, & diligently repeat the labourous working of saint Paul and other Disciples of Christ, which live delicately in idleness? And suppose ye that a man may not find many of them which have their sustentation upon the spoil of churches, robbery of monestaryes, and extortion of innocent people.  N. 
Though some of them be of such disposition: yet ought not ye to condemn the hole number of the good for a small somme of the evil.  W. 
Why do ye then despise the uni versall church, because some of them be nought.  N. 
Marry for because the more some of the evil, su● mountethe the less number of the good.  W 
And think you that it may not be better verified among the new gospelers, of the which the best is stark nought? Not withstanding some I have known of excellent literature, which for their sober conversation and temperate living, if they had been as serious in furthering the faith as they were in setting forth of heresies, were worthy to be pillars of Christ's church. But I ponder not so greatly the outward holiness of hypocrites, considering that Arrius, Maniche us, pelagius, & other execrable here tykes even as they be equal with them in heresies, so were they not infer yours to them in such hypocrisy. How many here in england within this. C. year have rid themselves out of this mortal life, with a desperate death hated both to God & man, some drow ninge themselves, some cutting their own throats, and many hanging themselves, which in their life time have been reputed for well disposed, virtuous, & charitable folk above the common sort of christian people, & peradventure some here in London of our old acquaintance. In whom is fulfilled the saying of Samuel: Man marketh those things that be open to the eye, but God considereth the secretness of the heart, to the verefyenge of Christ'S word in the gospel. Luk. 17. That which is highly advanced of men, is abominable in the sight of God. Nevertheless if ye go to the vttermost● I could appoint ye to many of the church, which accomplish the perfection of living unfeignedly, where of these men afore said have but a barren pretence or a dumb similitude. And as for the worst multitude of priests, monks, canons, freers, and other religious persons▪ I dare compare them with the common sort generally of these new factions, although ye put a part their faith & obedience to the church, which I reckon no small matter.  N. 
So god help me then dare I give the verdict with out any quest, that they be stark nought all the many of them. And to begin first of all at the freers, ye see what a ras●all rabble runneth about the country with bosomed sermons, preach ing fables and old wives tales, in stead of the word of God, which are ready mates to associate unthrifts in all mischief, to the slander of christian religion. And to speak of monks, canons, with other religious possessioners, I pray you what a ghostly life lead they▪ given holy to slothful idleness, and belyioy, in eating and drinking, without study of Scripture or endeverment of any virtuous excercise. They sing in their quieres with as great devotion, as hunters do at the hallowing of a fox, having delight in yelling of their voices, and crying of organs, but no sweetness of spiritual melody. Also secular priests even as bad as the best, shall ye not find them at taverns & dishonest houses, drinking & gowsing till they be as drunken as apes, nothing abashed to swear blasphemous oaths & to use filthy communication. And such as be curates having charge of men's souls, are there not many of them blinder than beetles, destitute of necessary doctrine with good living, whereby they might edify their parysshons. It were to tedyons a process to rehearse their wretchedness so far out of order, which all the world perceiveth & speaketh against it, and yet can be none amendment.  W. 
If their wretchedness of living as ye say be manifest to all the world: it shall not be so needful for you to declare any further thereof, as it will be expedient for me to tell of these new gospelers whose erroneous wickedness is known to very few here in this region. And surely to improve the universal church as evil, because many of them be lewd: it were no less madness then to set at nought the old testament, because the more part of the children of Israel were evil, other to despise the Gospel because all these new factions which falsely presume to be followers of it, are heretics. Among whom ye shall find ●enegate freers that have cast of their habits, and forsaken their religion, which have married wives, and soon after scape away from them, leaving them in careful desolatyon, ye some one ma●ieng ii or iii wives in divers countries, whom they have deceived by crafty enticements, making them believe with their gorgeous apparel that they be come of noble & rich friends. And of these are there many which walk over sundry provinces, with glozing speech and sweet tales, spienge out unstable people that will be wavering with every wind, and such as their stomachs serve them to contemn fastings and prayers, desirous of carnal liberty, and can rail against the clergy, caring for no jurisdiction, and when such unlawful means fail, give themselves to theft, robbing of churches and seditious disturbance, whereby some of them are promoted to the gallows, & shameful martyr doom of felons.  
Likewise apostata monks & canons perverted unto their sects, some bring with them as much substance of the spoil of their places, that they purchase therewith fair lands & yearly rents. Also priests that have made chevesaunre of their benefices for ii or iii C. pounds, at whose coming it is a world to hear how God is magnified for their deliverance from the tyranny (as they call it) of antichrist, and what brotherly cheer is made with fervent rejoice ● the sufferance of Christ's cross, namely if they have store of money. And soon after they are provided of fair wives in safeguard of their chastity, and to augment their perfection, whereby some of them chance to be so vexed with devils, that their Gospel is not able to charm them, and are fain to run away in liberty of the lord, ere that their wives be made fast in the bonds of our lady. Beside these how many in Germany have annual pensions of cities and towns for term of life, bound to no manner of service, whose change of state is to no renewing of spiritual conversation, but rather an unsacyat lust of fleshly freedom, evidently tried by their vicious behaviour, idle living, & disguised apparel.  N. 
Ye may speak many things for your pleasure, but ye know right well the christian religion standeth not in outward raiment, nor I can not see but as good a soul may be under a secular weed, as in a religious vesture. The strange diversity of habits is not commanded of God, neither scripture ascribeth any holiness unto them.  W. 
In good faith I speak of truth & not of pleasure for it is to me much displeasure to see them such as I see them, not in their disguised clothing only, full far unseemly for them, if they were either such as they were before, or such as they now call themself, but over that in every kind of all dysordered living: which ye let pass as though I had founden no fault but with their clothing. And against that ye seem to set at nought the habits and fashions of religious people, calling them strange diversities & things nought worth, because they be not commanded of god, nor that scripture ascribeth no holiness in them. But as for strangeness of apparel, religious men use none. But their apparel was at the first devised by such as they that now hate religion, do not yet deny for holy blessed men. And now they cannot be strange, when they continue still every order his old fashion, and that all the world hath looked upon them, and among a thousand freers none go better apparelled then an other.  
But now unto the other side, these that run away from them unto these Lutherans, they go I say disguised strangely from that they were before, in gay jagged coats, and cut and scotched hosen, very syghtly forso the, but yet not very seemly for such folk as they were and should be. And this apparel change they daily, from fashion to fashion, every day worse than other, their new-fangled folly & their wanton pride never content nor satisfied. And where ye set at nought all strange diver sytie of habits, in which ye mean I wot well not only religious men's apparel, but also the garments worn in divine service, for therein I know your mind of old▪ I say these gear were well ordered by good men, & not without the good help of God. And ye can not find that they be disallowed of God, but rather approved, in as much as he in the old testament appointed unto the priests and ministers a several dystynction of apparel from the common people, specially in their ministrations. Also it appeareth by the story of the prophet Heliseus, whom the children of Bethel mocked and wondered upon, that he was not clothed after their comen fashion. And verily I hold it more convenient for religious persons to were that habits by their fore father's institute, than to be arrayed after the ruf fyane invention, of many Gospelers in Germany.  N. 
All these are but blind reasons of your own fantasy, nothing to the purpose. The original in stitution of religious habits began upon certain considerations. As thus: when holy fathers lived in wilderness, they made their garments after a fashion that might best defend the sharp storms and ill wethers. And some that gave themselves to bodily labour, contrived their clothes to be shapen in a most handsome manner to work in. Also some of them willing to eschew superfluity of vesture, devised them habits most apt for warmth & sparing of cloth. But now these considerations failing: to were the habits of them, & not to follow their example, me thinketh it mere hypocrisy.  W. 
Then may I say to you again after the same form of argumentation. The first inventors of this new disguised apparel, were heathen people, unthrifts, fools, and myslyving persons: now ye that be accounted good Christian people use the same, where as ye ought not follow their lewdness, therefore ye be etc. Notwithstanding I demanded ones of a certain companion of these sects which had been of a straight religion before, why his garments were now so sumptuous, all to poū●ed with guards and jags like a rutter of the lance knights. He answered to me that he did it in contempt of hypocrisy. Why quoth I, doth not God hate pride the mother of hypocrisy, as well as hypocrysye itself▪ whereto he made no direct answer again, but in excusing his fault, he said that God principally accepted the meekness of the heart, and inward christian manners, which I believe were so inward in him, that seldom he showed any of them outwardly.  N. 
I granted before that there were some light persons. But what say you to the provision of poor people there, such as are aged or impotent, & that beggars be not suffered to crave at men's doors, nor to loiter ydellye as they do here, but a● set a work. I tell you some men think if our sturdy monks, canons, & freers, laboured for their living as we lay people do, that it would be a merrier world than now is.  W. 
What a merry time it would be here in this land I am uncertain, but I am sure that in Germany among these new factions is yet but a sorry world & like to be worse, ye say there be no loitering beggars, and that is true, for few or none resorteth thither because they can have none alms nor relief, except they will do intolerable service for so slender wages, that if they be not of sober diet, and long exercised with labour, it is not possible for them to away with it. But what is their labour? mary plucking down of churches and monasteries, and building of bulwarks & walls to instrength their towns against them which covet to reform them. And here is a doubt to be moved, when such business is ended, how shall they be then set a work, considering that in other occupations a fewer number than be all ready were able to suffice the people, & so they find it there already.  N. 
God will provide otherwise for them than man's imagination can comprehend.  W. 
If their ways liked him I wots well he would. But sith it is no pleasure to him to see them leave the faith, and fall to heresies, pull down churches, and build up bulwarks against god in defence of their abominable errors: I verily think that the wrath of God will work them vengeance, and send such men much misery, and abate their bulwarks to the ground, as he abated the proud tower of Babylon, when he confounded the builders into as many tongues as the devil hath confounded the builders of these bulwarks in to many shameful sects.  N 
Well I trust better. And which of us is beguiled the end shall show. But this here I say that as yet hitherto, where as ye spoke of their intolerable labour: I am certified that they come from it as ioyouslye as it were from a recreation.  W. 
I blame them never a deal, though they be glad when their task is at an end.  N 
Nay I mean when their hands be full of blains and blisters, with aching arms, their shoulders black and blue, by reason of heavy burdens: that then they rejoice in sufferance.  W. 
They that so have certified you, I pray you write unto them again, and pray them to certify you also how many worketh with an evil will for the only lack of living, and how many run fro their work & rather choose to go steal & be hanged to, rather than to come to so painful work again. And by that time that they have certified you of these two sorts: they shall I warrant you certify of the third other sort that are so glad of such labour, not fully so many as ye reckon now. And yet I think verily that some such are there to. And I would much marvel else.  N. 
Why so?  W. 
For I have known ere this where men have been sore hurt in frays, that they which have been sorest wounded have most rejoiced, not in his harms but in the praisings of other.  N. 
Who be they that should praise so these labouring folk.  W. 
Even such of their own sects as wyi not labour themselves, why cheer readier to encourage other men unto sufferance of death for their opinions, than to jeopardy themself the least tip of their ear. But now to your objection, that ye would priests monks, and freers should labour as other temporal men do: I hold it expedient that many of them should be better occupied than they are. Howe beit I have hard in germany grievous complaints & murmurations of hand crafty men and artificers against religious persons, which have made themselves worldly, and learned their occupations. For through their augmentation, the profitable gains of occupations was minished, and the wealth of their living decayed, so that many were compelled to seek adventures in strange provinces for default of work at home. Also I have known in the city of Colen, & in other places of the low country, that religious persons in their cloisters finding themselves with labour of their hands, as spinning, weyving, & making of linen cloth, have been heinously complained upon to the lords and rulers, that they took away the advantage and living from the poor commons & citizens: wherefore they have been restrained from taking of temporal people's work.  
 N. 
By this reckoning, seldom is a change for the better. But yet how say ye to their provision for poor impotent people?  W. 
After my mind they never went about an act that pretended a more Godly purpose, or a ferventer zeal of chartable compassion. which ordinance if it had a progress of continuance, as it had a likelihood at the beginning: were to be allowed and practised of all christian nations.  
But every occasion wisely pondered with due circumstances, it will make those that be sage to stay at it, & other like matters, taking advisement before, lest they enterprise further than they be able to bring unto a laudable end. It is the very property of common people, namely of these Almains, that what so ever they be persuaded unto, agreeable to their affections, they shall be ready in a sudden gyere to accomplish: regarding neither danger, nor commodity, though soon after they repent them. And like as the people of israhel brought the jewels of their wives & children to the making of the golden calf: so did they bring their jewels, beads, rings, outches, with money both gold and silver, to the common hutches so abundantly for this provision, that men doubted in some place, whether they had poor folk sufficient to consume so exceeding heaps of riches.  
But this doubt was soon made a plain case: for within a while after, the ardent heat of their liberal devotion waxed cold. And because they continued not still in bringing in their oblations: the hutches and coffers were empty ere men wist it. Then whiles it was compassed what way might be best taken for the preservation of this ordinance, least it should decay, to their confusion that began it: some gave counsel that it should be necessary to deprive the clergy of their goods, and to distribute their possessions, lands, and rents among lay people. And to throw down all monasteries & churches, making coin of crosses, chalesses, and other sacred jewels, for the sustentation of the poor as they alleged. This advise with hole assent of certain princes and comonteys was approved, affirming that if so infinite riches were once in their hands, the revenues of great men should be so enlarged, that they should need to raise no taxes nor lones of the commons, but rather cease from all importable exactions.  
In like manner by the same policy the commons might grow unto such wealthy substance: that beggars and needy people few or none should be found among them, which ought to be called a golden world, or a time of felicity.  N. 
And came it not so to pass in conclusion?  W. 
No, nor never shall I make you assurance, for the goods are wasted, & no man can tell how: ye at this hour the princes and lords of the cities are more hungry to pill & pole, than ever they were. The commons also in less wealth, enduting more grievous oppression then ever they did, with no fewer miserable persons than they had before, all things at out of measure scarce, each complaining to other of their calamities infortunate without remedy of redress or hope of a better change.  N. 
Our lord forbid that it should chance so here.  W. 
yet lack there not in england that wish full heartily after such a ruffling change, the more part such as hope to win, and have nothing to lose, and yet some so mad that have of their own, and which happily might repent it first of all. I let pass my lord cardinals act in pulling down & suppressing of religious places, our lord assoil his soul. I will wrestle with no souls: he knoweth by this time whither he did well or evil. But this dare I be bold to say, that the countries where they stood, find such lack of them: that they would he had let them stand. And think you then that there would be no lack founden, if the remanant were so served to? Iwene men would so sore miss them that many which speak against them, would soon labour his own hands to set them up again.  N. 
In good faith your words make me so amazed, that I can not tell what I may say to the matter: I see the living of the clergy is far wide from the doctrine of christ, & example of the apostles, & the Lutherans by your saying be inworse case, both destitute of catholic faith & good christian manners, without any better likelihood except by the means of a general reformation.  W. 
Who should be the auctors of this reformation?  N. 
The pope & other christian princes.  W. 
I put case that many of them be as wide out of the right way as the other.  N. 
That can ye tell partly concerning this Pope's holiness, for ye were lately at Rome.  W. 
In very deed I heard piteously of it by other men's report, but I saw it not: & peradventure I saw the less, because I tarried so little while there.  
Notwithstanding it fortuned me to talk with an italian, and in our communication I spoke as I had hard, that the pope and the emperor intended a reformation. Why said he they have begun already. I asked himwhere. See ye not quoth he that they have destroyed lombardy, italy, Naples, & also enpovered France, to the ruinous decay of christendom? Beware said I what ye speak. Yes quoth he, for I mean no dishonour to their highness, for they perform the will and commandment of God, as they of Syrya, and Babylone did, in destroying the evil children of israhel, to th'intent the good might prosper in their places. Marry qd I, that is clean contrary here, for the good be destroyed, and the evil are increased, so that never in italy were seen so many vagabonds, thieves, hores and harlots, as are in this present time. Well said he, if the good be rather destroyed, as ye allege, and the evil are still reserved: it is a token that they have escaped with an easy scourge, the dreadful vengeance of God, which remaineth for these that be left behind. Howbeit, ye read in stories of the bible, that the sinful world was first destroyed before that righteous Noah was possessioner of the fruitful earth, blessed of God, and the abominable cities of Sodom and Gomor utterly subverted, erevertuous Loth ascended the mount of his refuge. Also the reprobate people of israhel were wholly extinct, ere ever their elect children entered the land of promise. Wherefore construe ye as ye please, I fear me that the reformation of the world shall be with the sword of vengeance upon the people for their iniquity, considering the obduration of their hearts, and hard necked stubborns, not moved at the wondered tokens which daily prognosticate the wrath of God to be at hand. With this he shrank away, & would tarry no longer.  N. 
Peradventure he was afraid to wade further in the truth. But believe me if ye will, where he spoke of the destroying of evil people: I ween if Luthe ranes be such as ye make them it were the redyeste way for a reformation to kill up them quite.  W. 
I would rather wyssh them amended, if it may be. And as for killing them in some place, it were no great mastery. But then in some other places where would ye find the people to do the execution?  N. 
We should lack none in England I warrant you, for there be many of the clergy that would be full glad of it, & merchants some, though many be on their side. Also ye might have a great sort of the commons, and many courtiers, though some of every sort favour Luther's ways & some great men's servants bear men in hand that their sovereins support such matters specially in taverns, merchants houses, & other places, where they make themselves no small fools, when wise men be forth a doors.  W. 
ye understand not what ye say.  N. 
How so?  W. 
For if we will put away all Lutherans and all such open heresies, we must first put away many other sins, which have brought those heresies in. For trow ye that heresies the most terrible plague of God, cometh not through sin of the people, provoking his ire and indignation, whereby he sendeth among them false prophets, & erroneous teachers, preaching matters according to their wayward appetites.  N. 
yet priests and clerks are the bringers up of heresies, and the chief maintainers of them, by occasion of Popes, cardinals, bishops, and other prelate's of the clergy.  W. 
I will neither excuse nor accuse neither them nor other. But I fear me that as for other sins the clergy and the lay to, shall not need to strive therefore, but may well agree together, and part the stake between them. And as for heresies, though some of the clergy commonly begin them: yet if we look on old chronicles, with experience of our own time, we shall well find that there hath not lacked some great temporal princes, nor a great number of lewd lay people, to set them forth, & support them. Was not the original ground and cause of M. Luther's heresy, to do pleasure to his Prince, and to purchase favour among the people. In like manner, Oecolampadius, zwynglius, Pharellus, and other more followed the same trace. When princes & comonties are first bend upon affection against the church, or conceive any strange purpose contrary to scripture: then immediately they find at hand such learned persons that can endeavour their brains in approving their lusts, making the which is unlawful, lawful, which say that good is evil, & evil is good, calling light darkness, and darkness light.  N. 
We shall find them among which preach such things as ye call heresy for no such cause, but preach it boldly before great audience, where they for their preaching be brought in great danger.  W. 
Though they do fall in harm, yet have they hope to win their favour, or else why are they so desirous to have so many lay men present at their examinations?  N. 
They make of it a reasonable cause for ii considerations. One is to th'intent they might not be wrongfully oppressed in corners: another is, because they would that people should bear witness of their constancy in confessing the truth for Christ's sake.  W. 
These considerations in them, if they were true as they be false: were yet of small efficacity, & against the evangelic perfection. As touching the first, God promiseth if his servants be wronged privily, he will revenge them openly. And Christ in the gospel exhorting us to suffrance, biddeth his disciples to be joyful in persecution, saying the happy are ye when ye are belied, evil spoken upon, and extremely dealt withal for my name's sake. The other appeareth to be an excuse of vainglory, coveting worldly praise, where as they perceive that people favouring their part will interpret to their commendation, what so ever they say, though it be against scripture, contrary to all verity. saint Peter willeth us to give account of our faith to every body, and that mildly with allowlynes. We have no precedent of the apostles, that ever they disdained to answer before the infidel judges, till the vulgar multitude were by them, or that they required assistance of great men to be records of their words. Where wherefore I marvel what conscience these persons have, which are so importune to be examined in presence of rude seculars, & ignorant people, when they answer so doubtfully, that the best learned can not well construe their me aning. And in principal articles, whereupon dependeth our salvation or damnation: some answer so nakedly with blind shifts, that they be able to bring unlearned people into error of things, whereof they never doubted before, using ever overthwart speech, and quayling sentences of double understanding, with protestations of hypocrisy after this fashion: In good faith I think there is a purgatory, albeit I can not tell whether I may believe it or no. I suppose that confession made to a priest, and pilgrimages may be well done, but I find them not in Scripture: I believe in these words of christ, this is my body, but as concerning his bodily presence in form of bread, to say any thing it is above my capacity, and I dare not meddle with so dyffuse matters. I reckon that I may believe the doctors of the church, if they speak not against the word of god. etc. To use such anvages in weighty causes, & to put in question a fresh the cases defined by general counsels, as though we were uncertain of our belief, & new to begin again: I repute it no spirit of truth, seeking god's honour and edification of their neighbour. Nor I doubt not but at the day of judgement, they shall make a more serious answer. This consideration is also as I have said very plainly false. For when these sly shifts fail them: they show no constancy of their unfaithful doctrine, but falsely forswear themself and say they never said so, the hole audience detesting their perjury all save only their own sect, which as for perjury pardon each other. To speak of manifest myslivers, and open transgressors, whom may we well exempt? considering how prone and ready the hole world is from the most to the least, to decline and fall unto evil.  
Our faith which God hath given us to build good works upon, is waxed barren and fruitless. charity likewise, wherein we should be tried to be the very disciples of Christ; is waxed cold through the excess of iniquity. Amiable con●oro● with christian unite, whereupon all virtue fasteneth her foundation, is fallen in ruin, to the free entresse of hateful discenc●ō & liberty of alvyces. In every state and degree, y● one barketh at the other, one objecteth against another his saultes▪ each of them faring other to be causes of their miseries, & yet never a one fashioneth himself toward any amendment for his own part.  N. 
By my truth I dame the people would be good enough, if they had good heads.  W. 
I deny not that verily, but the better that the heads be, the better were the body like to be, and the evil that is in evil heads descendeth down into every part, and maketh all the body the worse. And yet surely, if the people be evil: the sin of them causeth God sometime to send them heads of the same suit; both pope's, emperors, kings, cardinals, bishops, priests, and curates. For it is the sin of the people as Job testifieth, that causeth God to suffer hypocrites sometime to reign over them. Hypocrites he calleth them that represent the personages of these estates, whose parts they do play for a countrnaunce, and do the contrary in deed. And as far as I have red in the bible, all the while the people of Israel were good, obeying god's laws, and sought his honour: God gave them gracious governors, virtuous priests, and true Prophets. But as soon as they swerved, & fell unto idolatry: he sent them for their punishment ungracious princes, vicious prelate's, and false prophets, so that no difference was between the people, & the priests, nor the people could not imagine so outrageous abominations, but princes and priests both were ready to fortify them in their unhappiness.  N. 
yet if ye remember well the stories of the bible, ye shall find that the transgression of god's laws among the people, redounded first from the heads, by their pernicious occasion. And as touching false prophets and ill priests: God himself grievously complaineth upon them, showing how the people are seduced by them, to the polluting of his name, and violation of his laws. Whose envious wickedness, ezechiel, Hieremye, with divers other prophets, declare at length. Did not the Belial priests, Ophni & Phines, by their pestilent example, and le cherours living, corrupt many one, upon whom God taking vengeance, they lost their lives in battle, and the ark of God, whereof they had the cure, taken by the Philisteis, thirty. thousand fighting men of the Israhelyte people were slain in one day. Likewise the children of Samuel which were judges of the people, not en suing their father's steps, but set upon covetousness took rewards, and perverted judgement, by whose occasion the people were moved to ask a king unto their desolation.  
Moreover the story of king Saul is plain, for whose private disobedience, the hole land of Israel smarted full ●ore.  
King David though he was a blessed man, yet brought unto folly for to number his people, they were fain to suffer most woeful plagues for his offence. Many other like places I could gather out of the old testament were it not to eschew tediousness, specially of Hieroboam, whom the scripture testifieth expressly, that he caused the people of Israel to sin. Beside all this, go to the very experience, & ye shall find that wheresoever the head or governor of an house is good, the hole household commonly shall be good also. And contrary wise, if they be bad, the other shall be as evil, so that I may conclude in verefyenge mine opinion, that the ill conversation of subjects proceedeth out of the evil example of their heads.  W. 
To begin where as ye leave. I grant that the virtuous example of the head availeth much to the good order of the members, & the greater that the authority is, the more strength it hath in example, either to profit or to noy, considering that among private persons, the goodness of some one, induceth many other to virtue, & contrary the lewdness of another, bringeth many to vice & ungraciousness. But yet can not ye conclude upon this, that the evilness of the people cometh first by the example of the heads, but rather as I have spoken before, because the people be evil themselves, therefore God fendeth them according, ill heads, & governors. For ye must consider that god hath not made the people for the sensual pleasure of Princes, governors, or prelate's, but hath ordained them to the weal and commodity of the people. Ye have in Exodus the third chapter, that when the people of israhel were in miserable thraldom under king Pharo: they cried to god for remedy, and God provided them Moses to be their deliverer, to whom in giving his office he said: The clamor of the children of Israel is come unto me, and I have seen their of flictions, how they are oppressed of the Egyptians: therefore approach, and I shall send the to deliver my people ye, god loved the people so entirely, that of them he chose bishops, priests, and deacons, to offer special sacrifices for the cleansing of their sins, and to be as means between him & them. Note of whom also took the noble & wise men, & made of them princes, captavins and governors, for their politic conservation. agreeable to this, the stories of Judicum make mention, that the people of Israel, long season after Josues death observing gods laws, and fulfilling his commandments prospered in peace, and had gracious governors. But when they fell to sin & idolatry: God gave them into subjection of their enemies, and were compelled whether they would or not, to serve he then princes, and miscreant idolaters, yet notwithstandynge, in mids of their miseries, where as with a repentant heart they cried to god for succour, and besought him of mercy: he raised up among themselves certain captains at sundry times, as Othoniel, Ayoth, Gedeon, Samson, and divers other, which delivered them from all bondage, restoring them again to their liberty. And where as ye allege the children of Helye to have been cause of the taking of the ark and slaughter of the people: I believe verily that the people were then mischievously minded, as they be now a days, which perceiving that the i●. priests that bare the ark whereby they hoped of victory, were slain: they surmised that the vengeance for the priests sins was cause why the ark was taken, and so much people destroyed, & under this blind audacity, they remained still impenitent, not acknowledging to God their own offences & idolatry: which appeareth by the return again of the ark, where above the number of. ●. thousand persons were plagued with sudden death. Also, it may be verified by the words of Samuel, exhorting the people to return unto god with heart unfeigned, and to cast out all strange Gods, preparing their hearts to the service of god only. For when they had fasted, and done penance, not imputing the fault to other but to them selfs, saying all we good lord have sinned against thee: god delivered them from their enemies. In like manner, the misorder of samuel's sons, was not so greatly the occasion why the people were moved to ask a king for to raygn over them, as was their own diffidence toward god's provision, obstinate disobedience, and unquiet appetite of idolatry, coveting to be like other heathen nations: which is to be perceived by the answer of god unto Samuel thus saying: Hear the people's voice in all things that they speak unto thee, they have not cast the of, but me, lest I should reign over them. They do even according to all their works which they did in the day that I brought them out of Egypt hitherto. As they have forsaken me, & served false Gods, thus do they also to the. When Samuel had showed unto them the displeasure of God, with the manifold miseries and calamities which they should suffer by the change: yet would they not hear him, but said, that needs they would have a king over them, as other people had. Furthermore ye affirm that the people of Israel were punished for the disobedient transgression of king Saul. But all things considered it is to be thought rather that their wilful frowardness against God was partly occasion of his fall, to th'intent the sentence of God spoken by the prophet might be verified. For if he had been an upright prince, & had observed gods commandment: they should have been in such felicity that they would have judged their petition lawful in demanding a king contrary to god's pleasure. And I doubt not but god gave them a king of disposition like to their demeanour, so that when he transgressed gods precept in deed, they did the same, at the last in will & consent, whereby they de served to be punished with him. For God never taketh vengeance upon any people but only for their sin, whythe after divers admonytions whiles they will not amend, even as he giveth to the good people gracious heads and princes, furthering them in his favour to their comfort: so sendeth he to the evil wicked heads & rulers, provoking his wrath to their desolation. And no marvel, though saul fared the worse for his people, where as Moses the most faithful servant of god was partly by their frowardness debarred from the pleasant land of behest. As for king david, it is plain that god disposed with the children of israhel for their sin: permitted Satan to in city him for to number his people, wherefore they were both punished. And though scripture expressly say th● that Hieroboan caused the people to sin: yet were they as much fauty as he, save that because they committed their idolatry under his supportation, he bore the name as principal auctor: as we see the captains of hosts in war time, though some of them do sometime as little or less, than many a poor soldier in his army, whose act is nothing spoken of, yet all the fame and honour of the victory redowndeth ever unto them, which is apartely proved by the oration of king Abya Roboams' son, laying to the people charge that they forsook god & made them golden calves, expu●syng the priests & deakons of god's ordinance, and instituting other after the order of heathen idolaters. Whereto agreeth in defence of mine opinion, the general confession of the people with their universal submission in knowledge of their trespasses, recited in sundry places of scripture after this form: we have sinned with our forefathers, we have done wickedly, & have committed iniquity, all we have transgressed thy commandments. And surely as the world is now crokedlye inclined to malice: if God sent heads and Princes according to thedevelyshe appetites of much people, the wealth of this region would be soon subverted, & every state brought to confusion, albeit they other wise colour it, and make as though they meant none harm but rather much devotion, & that the unlearned would have the Scripture in their hands, for none other cause but only to preach secretly to themself for lack of good preachers abroad. But then in deed it appeareth that they preach to themself and their neighbours to, many an horrible heresy, and abuse the scripture to the colourable defence of the same. And then are they also to, all Tyndals books, which for the manifold mortal heresies contained within the same, openly condemned and forbidden, they are I say yet unto those books so sore affectionate, that neither the condemnation of them by the clergy, nor the forbidding of them by the kings highness, with his open proclamations upon great pains, nor the danger of open shame, nor apparel of painful death, can cast them out of some fond folks hands, and that folk of every sort. How think ye then these folk would have been stomached, & how many more would have blustered, out with them, if the maintenance of the princes and the states of the realm (which our lord defend) had been upon their side. And where about would they then have gone? about no great good ye may be sure. See ye not the villain beggars and valiant vagabonds, whom god plagueth with poverty, and misery for their abom ynable living, disposed to no goodness, how heartily they wish for a ruffling day. Behold every state all most in every christian realm, as husband men, artificers, merchants, courtiers, with all other degrees as well spiritual as temporal, & I fear me that ye shall say, but if god of his goodness amend us the sooner, there shall come to pass among us the fearful judgement of god spoken by the prophet Osee, to the people of israhel and inhabiters of the land: There is no truth, no mercy, nor science of god in the earth. Cursing & dying, manslaughter, theft, and adultery hath over flown, & blood hath touched blood: for the which the earth shall wail, and every inhabyter in it shall be feebled. And this as I have said not one country faulty, & another fawtles, one estate fowl and deformed and another pure & clean, the spirituality sinful, and the temporalty set all on virtue, the heads & rulers culpable, & the people out of blame, nor that any estate may lay the hole weight of God's wrath unto the other, and thereof discharge themself, but each of them is cause both of their own harm and other folks to. And the people are nothing less fawtye, provoking the wrath of God, than their heads or governors, nor one state partyculerlye cause of another's calamity. But all we together have sinned, & have deserved the vengeance of God, which hangeth before our eyes, ready to fall ere we be aware.  N. 
In this point ye have right well satisfied my mind: but what remedy now of reconciliation again to God?  W. 
Forsooth I know none but only penance, I say not repenting only as Luther and Tyndall, and these new folks call it, which would beguile us & make us ween that we need no more but only repent, and do no penance at all, telling us that Christ's passion shall stand in stead of all our penance, though we do never so evil and live never so long. With this false doctrine they drive many a soul to the devil, making them negligent, and take little care or sorrow for their sin, and so much the more reckless in falling to sin again. But I speak of penance, as it implieth both repentance of our sins past, & the the sacrament of penance, with ●are & sorrow and bodily pain, & afflyccy on taken for our sin, with prayer, almose, & other good works to purchase the more grace, & that we should with recourse to confession & the sacrament of penance, dylgently prepare ourselves in following the example▪ of the Nynivytes: which at the preaching of the prophet Jonas, repent with earnest purpose of amending their lives, and did penance in deed, in fasting and prayer, humbling their fowls from the most to the least unto the mercy of god.  N. 
would our lord that we had such a prophet sent among us, to exhort us unto penance as the prophet Jonas was to them.  W. 
That were like to the request of the rich glut tone in hell, of whom the gospel telleth, which desired that Lazare might be sent to warn his brethren: to whom it was answered, that having Moses & the prophets, they should give credence to them. where fore saying that we have holy scripture which expresseth the rightwysnes of god, declaring how our forefathers were punished for their sins: if we refuse to be warned by their admonition, truly we would be as negligent to amend, if Jonas raised from death to life should preach unto us. For we have saint John baptist a greater prohete than Jonas was, crying to all sinners: Do ye worthy fruits of penance: of whom Christ witnesseth that there is none greater than he among the children of women. Also our savour Christ himself, of whom saint John testyfyed that he was unworthy to lose his shoe latchet: preached penance saying: Do ye penance, the kingdom of heaven is at hand. And in another place of the Gospel, he saith: if ye do not penance ye shall all perish. And saint Peter his vicar here in earth, upon whom, and whose faithful confession, he promised to build his church: preached likewise in his first Sermone saying: Do ye penance, and be converted to God, that your sins may be done away. Also saint Paul the choose vessel of God, preached first of all to them of Damascus, that they should be penitent and turn to god, performing the due works of penance. confirming the same, when Christ appeared unto the ii disciples iorneinge to Emaus: he said that after his death and resurrection, it behoved penance to be preached in his name, and remission of sins: for why the cause of his coming was not to call righteous folk, but sinners unto penance. And the angels of heaven rejoiced not so greatly in ninety & nine just persons, as upon one sinner doing penance. As concerning the old testament, God himself promiseth in divers places, that asynner shall be forgiven his sins, whensoever he will do penance. wherefore seig we have so evident exhortations of scripture moving us to penance▪ and manifold warnings to correct our lives through the the patient sufferance of god: happy are we yet, if now atlast ere that it be to late, we could faithfully say with Job performing the deed: lord we have hard that with our ears, & therefore we reprehend ourselves & do penance.  N. 
yet wot I not well what ye call penance.  W. 
I have once told you, & yet I tell you again, I call penance a change of our life in casting of the sinful old man with his deeds, and doing on anew man of virtuous conversation, which by faith, hope, and charity, and the good works that come of them, as prayer almose, sorrow for his sin, and pain gladly taken and sustained for the same, is renewed in to the knowledge & favour of god, according to his image that made him.  N. 
how should lay men come to this knowledge when the gospel is locked fro them.  W. 
The gospel of Christ which is god's word, is free, and can not be bound nor kept from any Christian man.  N. 
By saint mary for all that lay people may not be suffered to have the new testament in english, which I call the gospel.  W. 
O ye mean Tyndals' Gospel.  N. 
In deed though Tyndall was the translator, it is the word of God and the very same testament which ye have in latin of the evangelists putting forth.  W. 
yetlerned men and good men have founden such faults in his corrupt translation: that it is for the same well and lawfully forbidden.  N. 
if they be good men as ye say the have found it fauty: I should reckon them better a great deal, which would amend it.  W. 
Though it were amended, & sufficiently corrected: yet will I not say that it is expedient for lay people to have it, considering the time as it is now.  N. 
Why, ye said that the gospel may not be kept from christian men.  W. 
No more it may, though it be restrained from the lay people in their vulgar tongue. For the word of God, which is the word of faith, as Scripture saith, is near the in thy mouth & in thy heart, to th'intent thou mayst do it.  N. 
Than I pray you where saint Paul saith that faith cometh by hearing, and hearing cometh by the word of God: how can we have it without preaching or information of it, by reading of scripture.  W. 
Outward preaching, and literal reading of scripture, are necessary means to attain unto the knowledge of the spirit.  N. 
Wherefore then is the Gospel withholden from the lay people?  W. 
I said they be two things necessary, but I said not that both twain be to every man necessary. But it is necessary that every man have the tone or the t'other, and so have they: for they have the word of God preached & expouned un to them.  N. 
ye as the priests list with false gloss.  W. 
With the same gloss that the old holy doctors & saints have made, other manner of men than Luther & Tyndale, which now corrupt the truth with their false gloss.  N. 
But why should not the comen people have the scripture themself in their own mother tongue?  W 
Because of their abuse & making of their own gloss, & many also for their unworthiness, according to Christ's commandment forbidding to cast pearls before swine, or to give holy things to dogs. Did not saint Paul forbid women to speak the word of god in congregations, for the avoiding of abuse and dysorder? Also did not he and Bar nabas forsake preaching to the jews, because of their unworthiness?  N. 
That is not a like case: for the text is plain that the jews wilfully resisted the word of god, and would not receive it. But these people are so desirous, that they put themselves in no small jeopardy many times for the having of it.  W. 
I grant there be some which of a good mind are desirous to have the gospel in their mother tongue, for the erudition & comfort of their souls. But they that be such good folk may be well & sufficiently fed with the gospel punched, & so will they rather cheese to be, than to have the scripture run in every rash bodies hand, the would abuse it to their own harm and other men's to. For well ye wots many there be, and as it appeareth in Almaigne where they have the scripture translated already, the more part, and far the greater multitude, are not less unworthy in receiving it, than were the Jews in the wilful resistance of Christ's gospel: which covet it only for the liberty to be free from the exercise of penance, and doing of good works, to rail and jest of other men's faults, with out any correction of their own sinful lives, nothing conformable to the virtue of the gospel, whereof to babble many words they are not dumb.  
Mark it there substantially in cities and towns where ye see the people most rifest & most busy to prate of the Gospel whether they be or not, as great usurers, disceivers of their neighbours, blasphemous swearers, evil spekers, and given to all vices as deeply as ever they were. This I am sure of and dare boldly affirm, that sith the time of this new contentious learning, the dread of God is greatly quenched, and charitable compassion sore abated. Shall ye not see there a cock brained courtier that hath no more faith than a Turk, & less christian manners than a pagan, with lordly countenance & knavyshe conditions, which taking the name of god in vain, shall unreverently allege the gospel with scoffing and scorning in reprehension of the clergy: where as his own ●ewd living is so unthrifty, that ye can not aspy one good pyont in him, except it be upon his hosen, nor a nynche of honesty beside his apparel nor scantly therone neither, being all to hacked and jagged, with double weapon ready to fight, and single wit, busy to brawl and chide, more like a furious tormentor of Herode, than apacyent disciple of Christ. Shall ye not also see there a merchant peradventure made a gentle man by promotion, ere ever that he had a good yemans' conditions: which getting his chief substance as many do there by usury, false deceit of true people, and other wrongful ways, will take upon him to preach the Gospel against the avarice of religious persons, how they having their bare necessary food, aught to part the residue of their goods with poor people: where as he himself hath thousands dying by him in store unoccupied, and will neither help his poor neighbour nor scarcely give a galy halfpenny to a needy creature in extreme necessity: And at their belly festig days, among such of their affinity, which are not so wise nor well learned as they would be seen, if it chance them to have in company some simple priest, it is a wonder to here, how heis opposed, & after that their spirits be a little kindled in gluttony, how they lash out the Gospel. Than beginneth one or another with his poty carry formalyte and holy day granyte, to move some subtile question saying: master person how say ye to such a text of Paul? And if the priest be ignorant for lack of learning, or maketh not an answer satisfying his mind: he is mocked and jested upon with scornful derision. Then begin they to canvas the scripture among them, with filling the cups & ●oly gentle cheer. And by that time they have eaten more than enough, and have drunken to much: they be ready to wade forth in the deep mysteries of scripture, willing to be teachers of things whereof they understand not what they speak, nor what they affirm. Then are they full armed to talk of abstinence, and sober diet of the apostles: their table being furnished with sumptuous dishes, and exquysyte deyntyes. And where as their cupboards be really garnished with costly plate, and the tables full of cups and pieces of silver and gold: than make they exclamations against the rich jewels of churches, as crosses and chalyses, saying that better it were to make money of them and to be distributed unto poor people, than they should perish for lack of succour. Likewise when they be served at their solempnityes, with counterfeited curtesyes, in bowing the knee, & vailing the bonette, having sewers and karuers after a most stately manner of service, wherein if the officers fail never so little though it be but the setting of a saucer amiss they shall be rebuked: yet their peevish patience can not break the honest ceremonies of the church to be lawdably done, calling them foolish fantasies & inventions of ydyotes And though some of these new Gospelers occupy trewelie and justly with their neighbours in face of the world, behaving themselves charitably: yet are they very few in comparison of the other, which be railers & jesters, vicious livers & false hypocrites with out any conscience.  N. 
As for hypocrites I think ye might find sooner among religious persons.  W. 
will ye believe me. I have walked a great part through out all the provinces of christendom, and have seen and marked the state of religious persons of divers orders: yet saw I never among them such coloured hypocrisy, so fleshly liberty abused, under the pretence of feigned holiness, as among many of these late invented factions. And I certify you that ye may find more divers sects of erroneous opinions among them in one city beyond the sea: than be son dry orders of religious people in all England.  N. 
Suppose ye the gospel to be in fault of this?  W. 
Nay, but the abuse of the people having it in their vulgar language: for whom it were better to receive it by the ministration of faithful preachers, than unworthily to take it themselves. we have in the Gospel that our saviour Christ feeding the number of .v. thousand men beside women and children, first giving thanks to his father, he blessed the bread, broke it, & gave it to his disciples, and they distributed it to the company, and so they did eat and were satiate.  N. 
Sir according to this the people should hold them very well content, if so be they had faithful preachers to minister the word of god unto them. But I put cause they have none, or else that their peachers be such as the prophet complaineth on, which preach the vision of their heart) & not of the mouth of god: seeking also their own worldly profit, and not the ghostly comfort of their cures.  W. 
I believe that god hath not left his church destitute of faithful preachers, with the which he hath promised to be continually present unto the worlds end. How be it the fewer that they be, the more fault is to be imputed unto the people, because they ask not worthily of god true preachers. For the gospel showeth that the people came first to christ, and he per ceyving them was moved with compassion upon them, because they were as sheep having no heard, and so feeding their souls spiritually, afterward he did repast their bodies with corporal food, wherefore if they in like manner approach unto Chr●ste (in whose name what so ever is desired of the father shall be granted) he will also here graciously their petition: for the hand of god is not abrevyate now, nor his power other wise mynyss●ed than it was at that time.  N. 
yet am not I so satisfied with all the reasons that ye have made, but I think still that it were lawful for lay people to have the new testament in english: & peradventure with a little leisure I could lay such scripture for it, that scant ye should be able to object any contradiction.  W. 
ye shall have leisure enough. But in the mean time this ye must consider, that our question is not whether it be lawful to let them have it: but whether it be unlawful to keep them from it, and whether of the twain is more meet and more expedient, specially for the time that now is, the people being disposed as they now be, and after such ensample as we see before our eyes, with such fruit as we find grown thereof in Almaigne already, and in many places even here at home also. But if ever the time come, as I pray god it may, in which the people shall be so good and so godly disposed that an english bible should do good itheyr hands: yet might tyndal's translation in no wise be suffered.  N. 
well I shall bethink me till we meet again, and then will I be so bold also to take Tyndals' part in defence of his translation and other books which he hath put forth in english, alleging the best that I can for their allowance: to th'intent I may see what strong reasons ye can bring to confute them.  W. 
There with am I right well pleased, and I trust with gods help to answer you so effectuously, that ye shall not count the time passed in vain  N. 
Than far ye well till another season.  W. 
Our lord be with you.  
FINIS.   

printed at London in Paul's churchyard by John Cawood. Cum privilegio ad imprimendum solum.