AN ANSWER TO A GREAT NUMBER of blasphemous cavillations written by an Anabaptist, and adversary to God's eternal Predestination. AND confuted By john Knox, minister of God's word in Scotland. Wherein the Author so discovereth the craft and falsehood of that sect, that the godly knowing that error, may be confirmed in the truth by the evident word of God. PROV. XXX. ¶ There is a generation that are pure in their own conceit, and yet are not washed from their filthiness. Printed by john Crespin. M.D.LX To the Reader. FOr the understanding of the numbers, the readers shall observe, that as the writer in his pestilent book hath divided the hole into certain arguments, so likewise have I divided mine answers into certain Sections. And because that many things in his railing reasons are either unworthy of any answer, or else not necessary to be answered so oft as he repeateth the same, I thought good to sign those things in every several section, which I thought in the same most necessary to be answered. And this I have done as well in his reasons, as in mine answers, so that the figure of 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. which be marked in the mergent of his reasons, are answered where the like number is found in mine answers. This I thought good to admonish the reader. The Preface. Amongst the manifold blessings where with God hath blessed his chosen children (whom before all beginning of times he hath predestinate to life in Christ jesus) it is not the least (most dear brethren) that he hath given unto us plain advertisement, Ephes. 1. 3 how diverse, unto diverse persons shallbe the effect and operation of his word: so oft as it is offered unto the world. 2. Cor. 2. 1● To wit, that as he himself was appointed by his heavenly Father and forespoken by the Prophets, isaiah 8. 14 to be the Stone of offence, the stumbling block, and a snare to the two houses of Israel, and yet that he should be to others the Sanctuary of honour, the Rock of refuge, & author of liberty: so should his word (I say) truly preached be to some foolishness and the savour of death, 2. Cor. 2. 16 and yet unto others, that it should be the sweet odour of life, 1. Cor. 1. 28 the wisedo me and power of God (and that to salvation) to all those that believe. I purpose not at this present to entreat nor to reason, how and why it is that gods eternal word, which in itself is always one, worketh so diversly in the hearts of those to whom it is offered, but my only purpose is in few words to admonish us (to whom it hath pleased God of his own free mercy more plainly to reveal the mysteries of our redemption them he hath done to many ages be fore us) not to esteem this a small and common blessing of God that we have not only his truth, but also the effect and operation of the same confirmed to us by experience of all ages. Great & infinite is that benefit of God, and rightly can it never be weighed, when so ever he doth offer his truth unto the world. But such is either the dullness of man or else his extreme ingratitude, that he will not acknowledge the face of theveritie, john 1. 5 shine it never so bright. The ingratitude of the jews, is hereof unto us a sufficient witness. For albeit that long they did look for the Messiah and saviour promised, yet nevertheless, when he came with wondrous signs & works super natural, Matt. 27. 38. they did not only not know him, Act. 2. 23 but also refusing and utterly denying him, they did hang him bewext two thieves upon a cross. The cause hereof in some part we know to be the carnal liberty which continually they did thirst after, and their preconceaved opinion of worldly glory: which because Christ jesus appeared not to satisfy according to their fantasy and expectation, therefore did they contempteously refuse him, and with him all gods mercies offered unto them. Which fearful example (dear brethren) is to be observed of us. For by nature it is evident, that we be no better, than they were. And as touching the league & society with God, which prerogative long made them blessed, we be far inferior unto them. For in comparison of that league made with Abraham the time is short, that the Gentiles have been avowed for gods people & beloved spouse of Christ jesus▪ yea Paul feareth not to call them the very natural branches and us the branches of a wild olive. And therefore if their contempt was so punished, that blindness yet remaineth upon them, what ought we to fear? They not considering the office of Christ, & the cause of his coming, were offended with his presence and doctrine. Companions of the truth And doth any man think that we be free from the same dangers? Few shallbe found, that in mouth praise not veri●ie, & every man appeareth to delight in liberty. but such companions do follow both the one and the other, in this life, so that both are despised and called in doubt, when they be of feared most plainly to the world. To speak this matter somewhat more plainly, it is a thing (as I suppose) by many confessed that after darkness light hath appeared: but alas, the vices that have abounded in all estates and conditions of persons, the terrible cruelty which hath been used against the saints of God, and the horrible blasphemies which have been & daily are vomited forth against Christ jesus and his eternal verity, hath given (and justly may give) occasion to the imprudent beholder of such confusion, to prefer the darkness of superstition, which before did reign, to the light of salvation, which God of his great mercy hath now of late years offered again to the unthankful world. For what natural man can think that the justice of faith, planelye and truly preached should be the occasion of sin? That grace and mercy offered should inflamed the hearts of men with rage and cruelty? And that god's glory declared should cause men impudently to spew forth their vennom and blasphemies against him, who hath created them? The natural man (I say) can not perceive how these inconveniences should follow gods word, & therefore do many disdain it, a great number deny it, and few as it becometh with reverence do embrace it. But such as with grave judgement shall consider what was the common trade of living, when Christ jesus, himself did by preaching and working, call men to repentance, what was the intreatement of his dearest servants, whom he sent forth to preach the glad tidings of his death and resurrection, and what horrible sects followed, and daily did spring after the publication of that joyful atonement made between God and man by Christ jesus, by his death, resurrection, and ascension, such (I say) as diligently do observe these former points, shall not only have matter sufficient to glorify God, for his graces offered (be the lives of men never so corrupted, and the confusion that thereof ensueth never so fearful) but also they shall have just occasion more steadfastly to cleave and stick to the truth, whose force & effect they see always to have been one from the beginning. The givers of these offences shall no doubt sustain the woe pronounced against them by Christ jesus. Matt 1. 7 But yet must the children of God understand, that of necessity it is, that such offences come: that the elect may first be tried, 1. Cor. 11 19 and after be partakers of that blessing pronounced by our master in those words: Luke 7. 13 Blessed is he that is not offended in me. The cause of these my former words is, that as Satan ever from the beginning hath declared himself enemy to the free grace and undeserved love of God, Satan hath everraged against the free mercies of God. so hath he now in these last and most corrupted days most furiously raged against that doctrine, which attributeth all praise and glory of our redemption to the eternal love and undeserved grace of God alone. By what means sathan first drew mankind from the obedience of God, Ephes. 2. 8 the scripture doth witness. To wit, by pouring into their hearts that poison, How Satan drew manfirst from God. that God did not love them: and by affirming that by transgression of god's commandment they might attain to felicity and joy: so that he caused them to seek life where God had prounced death to be. This same practice hath sathan ever from the beginning used to infect the Church with all kind of heresy, as the writings of Moses, of the Prophets, of the Apostles, & of the godly in the primative Church do plainly witness. But alas to such blasphemy did never the devil draw mankind as now of late days, in the which no small number are become so bold, so impudent, and so irreverent, that openly they fear not to affirm, God to be unjust, if that he in his eternal counsel hath elected more one sort of men than an other to life everlasting in Christ jesus our Lord: which thing of late days, is more plainly come to our knowledge than before we could have suspected, and that by the sight of a book most detestable & blasphemous, containing (as it is entitled, The confutation of the errors of the careless by necessity) with that odious name do they burden all those that either do teach, either yet believe the doctrine of gods eternal predestination▪ which book written in the english tongue doth contain as well the lies and the blasphemies imagined by Sebastian Castalio, and laid to the charge of that most faithful servant of God, john Caluine as also the vane reasons of Pighius, Sadoletus & Georgius Siculus, pestilent Papists, & expressed enemies of gods free mercies. The cause of the writing of this work. The despiteful railing of with book, & the manifest blasphemies in the same contained, together with the earnest reqnsts of some godly brethren, moved me, to prepare an answer to the same: others I dowbt not might have done it with greater dexterity, but with reverence & fear do I lay the talon committed to my charge, upon the table of the Lord to bring to his church such advantage as his godly wisdom hath appointed. But lest that some should think, that my labours might better have been bestowed in some other exercise, I thought expedient to admonish all brethren, & charitably to require of them, not to esteem the matter to be of small weight & importance. for seeing that gods free grace is openly impugned & disdainfully refused, I judge it the duty of every man that looketh for life everlasting, to give his confession to Christ jesus, whose glory is by these blasphemers to the uttermost of their power suppressed. Some do think, that because the reason of man can not attain to the understanding, how God shall be just making in his counsel this diversity of mankind, that therefore better it were, to keep silence in all such mysteries, then to trouble the brains and minds of men with curious disputations. I willingly confess, that all curiosity ought to be avoided, and that with great sobriety we ought to contemplate & behold that incomprehensible mystery of our redemption. But yet I say, that the doctrine of gods eternal predestination is so necessary to the Church of God, that without the same, The necessity of the doctrine of gods eternal predestination. can faith neither be truly taught, nether surely established: man can never be brought to true humility, & knowledge of himself nether yet can he be ravished in admiration of gods eternal goodness, and so moved to praise him as appertaineth. And therefore we fear not to affirm that so necessary as it is that true faith be established in our hearts: that we be brought to unfined humility, & that we be moved to praise him for his free graces received, so necessary also is the doctrine of gods eternal predestination. For first there is no way more proper to build and establish faith, them when we hear and undoubtedly do believe, The stability of faith. that our election (which the Spirit of God doth seal in our hearts) consists not in our selves, but in the eternal and immutable good pleasure of God. And that in such firmity that it can not be overthrown nether by the raging storms of the world, nor by the assaults of sathan, nether yet by the wavering and weakness of our own flesh. Then only is our salvation in assurance, when we find the cause of the same in the bosom and counsel of God. For so do we by faith apprehend life and peace manifested in Christ jesus, Rom. 5. 1. that by the direction and guiding of the same faith we look farther: to wit, out of what fountain, life doth proceed. In Christ jesus now presently do we find liberty and life, john 14. 6 1. Cor. 1. 30 he is made unto us of God, wisdom, & righteousness and sanctification and redemption: and in the promise of his Gospel is founded the stability of our salvation. But yet we have a joy which, far surmounteth this. Ro 1. 26 For albeit that we should hear that the mercies & the graces of God were offered unto all men, and albeit also that we should feel that our hearts were somewhat moved to believe, yet unless the very cause of our faith be known, our joy and comfort can not be full. For if we shall think, that we believe and have embraced Christ jesus preached because our wits be better than the wits of others, and because that we have a better inclination and are of nature more tractable than be the common sort of men, sathan (I say) can easily over throw all comfort builded upon so weak a ground. for as the heart of man is vain and inscrutable, so may it be, that those that this day be tractable and obedient, having also some zeal toward godliness, yea and also both sense and feeling of god's mercy, such (I say) may shortly here after become stubborn in some cases, disobedient in matters of great importance, tempted with lusts, and finally they may be left so barren, that rather they shall tremble at the sight of gods judgements, than that they can rejoice in the free adoption of his children. And therefore (I say) that except our comfort be grounded upon that foundation which never can be moved, it is not perfect. The unmovable ground of faith. And that ground is this: That when we understand that presently we believe in Christ jesus, because we were ordained before the beginning of all times to believe in him: Rom. 8. 29 as in him we were elected to the society of eternal life, then is our faith assuredly grounded, Ephes. 1. 14 and that because the gifts and vocation of God are without repentance. 2. Thes. 2. 13 and he is faith full that hath called us. 2. Pet. 1. 2. & 20 his infinite goodness which moved him to love us in an other than in ourselves, that is in Christ jesus, Rom. 11. 29 according to his free benevolence, which he had purposed in him, is to us a tower of refuge, with satan is never able to overthrow nor the gates of hell shall never prevail against it. For how so ever we be changeable, yet is God in his counsel stable and immutable, yea how weak, how feeble, how dull that ever we be, yet is there nothing in us (even when we be in our own judgement most destitute of the Spirit of God) which he did not see to be in us before we were form in the womb, yea and before the beginning of all times, because all is present with him. Which imperfections, infirmities and dullness, as they did not stop his mercy to elect us in Christ jesus, so can they not compel him now to refuse us. And from this fountain doth flow this our joy, that with the Apostle we are bold to cry: who is able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ jesus? Rome. 8 for seeing that the father, who hath given us for a peculiar inheritance to his only Son, is so mighty, that out of his hand is none able to take us away, what danger can be so great? what sin is so grievous, or what desperation so deep, that is able to devour us? for seeing it is God himself who will absolve us from all iniquity: and seeing that Christ jesus his Son will avow us to appertain to his body, what is he that dare rise against us to condemn us? The comfort hereof doth none feel except the choose children of God, and that in the day when man's justice faileth, and the batt●lle of their conscience is most grievous and fearful. Therefore as faith springeth from election, so is it established by the true knowledge of that doctrine only which this day is most furiously oppugned, by those who do not understand the same. And from that same doctrine floweth the very matter of true humility. For while we behold the condition of those whom nature hath made equal to be so far divers the one from the other, it is unpossible but that the children of God in their own hearts unfeignedly shallbe humbled. For whither so ever they shall direct their eyes, they shall behold fearful examples of blindness and of such iniquity as all men justly ought to abhor: but when they consider themselves to have received light in the midst of such dareknes, and themselves to be sanctified in the midst of so wicked a generation, from what fountain can they say that this proceedeth? who hath illuminated their eyes, while that others abide in blindness? who doth bridle their affections, while that others do follow the same to perdition? if they say nature, their own conscience shall convict them: for nature hath made us all equal: by nature are we the children of wrath as well as other: Ephes. 2. If they say education, reason, or their own study, common experience shall diclare their vanity. For how many have been no rished in virtue, Ham. Ishmael. Esau. Abshalom. Achitophel. judas. and yet become most filthy in life? And by the contrary how many have long remained without all virtuous education, and yet in the end have attained to god's favour? And therefore we say that such as attribute any thing to themselves in the grace of their election have not learned to give to God the honour which to him appertaineth, The Ninivites. Manasses. Paul. Magdelene. The thief. because they do not freely confess what maketh them to differre from others. It is universally received for a sentence most true, that as humility is the mother of all virtue: so it is also the root of all godliness. But how is it possible, What humility is that that man shallbe humbled, that can not abide to hear the former misery in the which he was borne? neither yet the means by the which from the same he was delivered? If a beggar being promoted to great honours by the liberality of a king, should be remembered of his former condition: and for declaration of his gratitude he should be commanded to reverence the ambassador, or herald that thus should say unto him: Remember and call to mind how wretched, poor, and miserable sometimes thou wast, and praise the goodness of the king, by whose mercy and gentleness thou livest now in this honourable estate: If this beggar (I say) should stomach that his poverty should be so often objected unto him, who would say, that either he were humble, either yet thankful to the king? No more can it be said that such as can not abide the mention of gods eternal election (by the which only the elect be extolled to dignity in Christ jesus) be either humble in gods presence, either yet thankful, for that infinite benefit, which exceedeth all measure. To wit, that we be elected in Christ jesus to life everlasting, and that God according to the good pleasure of his eternal counsel, hath made separation betwixt those who did fall into equal perdition, as touching the offence and sin committed. Such as desire this article to be buried in silence, and would that men should teach and believe, that the grace of god's election is common unto all, but that one receiveth it, and an other receiveth it not, proceedeth either from the obedience or disobedience of man, such deceive themselves, and are unthankful and injurious unto God. For so long as they see not, that true faith and salvation (as in the discourse shallbe more plainly declared) springe from election and are the gift of God, and come not of ourselves, so long are they deceived and remain in error. And what can be more injurious unto gods free grace, Ephes. 2. 8 then to affirm, that he giveth no more to one, than to an other? seeing that the hole scriptures do plainly teach, that we have nothing which we have not received of free grace & mere mercy, and not of our works, nor of anything in us, lest any man should boast himself Ephes. 2, 28. And therefore let wicked men rage as they list we will not be ashamed to confess always, that only grace maketh difference betwixt us and the rest of the world. And further we fear not to affirm, that such as feel not that comfort inwardly in their conscience, can never be thankful to God, neither yet willing to be subject to his eternal counsel, Which is the only cause that these wicked men most unreverently do storm & rage against that doctrine which they do not understand. But let us (dear brethren) be assured, that none other doctrine doth establish faith, nor maketh man humble & thankful unto God, & finally that none other doctrine maketh man careful to obey God according to his commandment, but that doctrine only, which so spoileth man of all power & virtue, that no portion of his valuation consisteth within himself, to the end that the whole praise of our redemption may be referred to Christ jesus alone whom the Father of very love hath given to death for the deliverance of his body, 1. Cor. 1. 30 which is the Church, 1. john. 4. 10 to the which he was appointed head before the beginning of all times. Ephes. 1. 22 To him therefore with the Father and holy Ghost, be all praise and glory for ever and ever. So beit. THUS BEGINNETH THE BOOK OF the adversaries of Gods eternal predestination. The first error of the careless by necessity. The first section. ANSWER. WE are not ignorant, nether yet do ye dissemble, whom ye accuse, but how justly you term our doctrine error, and us careless, at this time I omit to speak because that after we shall, have occasion more largely to common with you in that matter. Only at this present I demand of you with what conscience can you burden us with the odious name of stoical necessity, which so often most impudently ye lay to our charge in this your most ungodly and confused work: seeing that no men do more abhor that devilish opinion and profane name than we do? It is easy to persuade you as I suppose that we descent not from the judgement of the reverend servant of Christ jesus john Calvin (whom ye in skoffing and despite use to term and call our God.) And therefore from hencefurth to put silence to your venomous tongues and to cause your impudency more appear to such whose eyes sathan hath not blinded with like pride and malice as in you are more than evident: I will faithfully recite his words and sentences in this behalf written thus in his Christian institutions. Cap. 14. Section 40 Those (saith he, that study to make this doctrine meaning of God's eternal providence and predestination odious falsely do calumniate, that it is the Paradox, that is doubtful and hard opinion, of the Stoics who did affirm that all things chanced and come to pass by fatal or mere necessity. Libr. ad bonifa. 2. The which also was ob●ected to saint Augustine. As touching us, we do not willingly debate nor strive for words, Cap. 6. & 40. nevertheless in no case admit we nor receive the term which the stoics used in latin called Fatum. aswell because it is of the number of those words, the profane and unprofitable novities whereof Paul willeth us to avoid, as also because that by hatred of it, our enemies go about to charge the verity of God. As touching the opinion, we are falsely and maliciously burdened therewith: for we imagine not a necessity which is contained within nature by a perpetnal conjunction of natural causes, as did the Stoics, but we affirm and menteine that God is Lord, moderator and Governor of all things, whom we affirm to have determined from the beginning according to his wisdom what he would do, and now we say, that he doth execute according to his power what so ever he hath determined. Whereof we conclude, that not only the heaven and earth and creatures insensible, but also the counseles, and the wills of men are governed by his providence, so that they tend and are led to the scope and end which he hath purposed. He proceedeth further answering the objection which may be made, saying: what then, is there nothing done by fortune and chance? I answer. That well and godly it is written by Basilius called the great: That fortune and adventure are the words of paynims, the signification whereof ought in no wise to enter in to the heart of the faithful. For is all prosperity be the benediction of God, and adversity, his malediction, there remaineth no place the fortune in such things as come to men. Retract. lib. 1. cap. 2. And further to the end of that section he bringeth forth the mind of Augustine concerning fortune, whereof perchance we may after somewhat speak. This one sentence is sufficient to convict both your master and you of malicious envy and most unjust accusation: for herein doth not only john Calvin, and we all with him abhor from the term of Fatum called destiny, but also from that diabolical opinion which the stoics maintained. When I consider what should be the cause that thus maliciously ye should burden us with that which so plainly by word and writing we oppugn, I am compelled to suspect, that either ye understand not the nature of the term which ye lay to our charge, or else that ye have a further fetch, then at the first sight doth appear. We plainly do affirm, that the opinion of the stoics is damnable and false: Stoical necessity for they did place such power in the stars and in their oppositious, that impossible (they affirmed) it was to change or avoid that which by their constellation and influence was appointed to come. In so much that they held, that jupiter himself (whom they called the great, and supreme God) could neither alter nor stop the operation of the stars and the effects that should follow thereupon: and so they affirmed, that the mutations of kingdoms the honours of some men, the dejection of others, and finally that both vice and virtue were all together in the power of the stars. Against this pestilent opinion strongly and learnedly disputeth Augustin in diverse places, Cap. 1. 2▪ 3. 4. & 5. but chiefly in his fift book of that work entitled of the city of God: affirming, that only by the providence of God are kingdoms erected, maintained and changed: that stars have no power, neither to incline man to virtue nor to vice: that such blasphemies ought to be repelled from the ears of all men. Which sentences, because they do most perfectly agree with gods infallible word, we reverently embrace, and constantly do believe: And so, why that ye should thus impudently accuse us of that which we never thought, wise men may wonder. 〈…〉 O say, you, ye take away the word of Stoical necessity, but yet ye affirm the self same thing which they affirmed. I answer: if ye can make no difference betwixt the omnipotent, most perfect, most just, and immutable will of God, and the opposition of stars, called constellation, you have evil profited, not only in God's school, but also in those arts, in which 〈◊〉 of you would seem to be subtle. Do we affirm, that of necessity it was, that Pharaoh after many plagues sustained, should with his great host be drowned? that Nabuchadnezer should be transformed in to a brute beast? that Cyrus should first destroy Babylon, and after proclaim liberty to the people of God (after their long and dolorous captivity) because the influence of the stars did lead them to that end? or do we not rather most constantly affirm, that the aeternal counsel of God, his immutable decree, and most holy will (which only is the most perfect rule of all justice and equity) did bring all these things to pass by such means as he had appointed, and by his prophets fore spoken? But here you storm, crying in your accustomed fury: What is this else but stoical necessity, to make Gods will the only cause of all things, be they good or bad? How dull and ignorant you are, if ye can not make difference betwixt Gods will and that necessity which the stoics mainteaned, I have before touched, and how maliciously ye impute unto us, words and sentences, whereof ye be never able to convict us, shall shortly God willing) be declared. But by this I perceive where the shoe doth wring you. If Gods will, his counsel, his providence and decree bear rule in the actions of man's lief, Why the Anabap. mystlyketh the doctrine of predestination. then foresee you and fear, that your free will shall be brought into bondage: and so can ye not come first to the perfection of Angels, and in process of time to the justice of Christ by the means of your free will. Whether I wrongously suspect you, and so have erred in my judgement, your own words shall after witness. For seeing that we have plainly proved, vt most unjustly and most maliciously ye accuse and traduce us of the vane opinion of the stoics, I will proceed to that which ye call our first error, after that I have (for the better instruction of the simple reader) declared, what we understand by Prescience, Providence, and predestination, which terms do so offend you, that ye can not hear them named. When we attribute prescience to God, Prescience. we understand, that all things have ever been and perpetually abide present before his eyes, so that to his eternal knowledge nothing is bypassed, nothing to come, but all things are present, and so are they present that they are not as conceived imaginations or forms and figures, whereof other innumerable things proceed (as Plato teacheth that of the form and exemple of one man, many thousands of men are fashioned) But we say, that all things be so present before God, that he doth contemplate and behold them in their verity and perfection. And therefore it is, that the Prophets often times speak of things being yet after to come, with such certainty, as that they were already done. And this prescience of God do we affirm to be extended to the universal compass and circuit of the world, yea and unto every particular creature of the same. God's providence we call, Providence. that sovereign empire and supreme dominion, which God always keepeth in the government of all things in heaven and earth contained. And these two (that is, Prescience and providence) we so attribute to God, that with the Apostle we fear not to affirm, that in him we have our being, ●●uing, and lief: We fear not to affirm, joan. 10. that the way of man is not in his own power, but that his foot steps are directed, by the eternal: Proverb. 20. That the sorts and lots (which appear most subject to fortune) go so forth by his providence: That a Sparro falleth not upon the ground without our heavenly father. Prover. 16. And this we give not to God only prescience by an idle sight, and a providence by a general moving of his creatures (As not only some Philosophers, Matth. 10▪ 29. but also more than is to be wished in our days do) but we attribute unto him such a knowledge and providence, as is extended to every one of his creatures. In which he so worketh, that willingly they tend and incline to the end, to which they are appointed by his. What comfort do the sons of God receive in earnest meditations hereof this time will not suffer to entreat. But at one word to finish, alas to what misery were we exponed, if we should be persuaded, that sathan and the wicked might or could do any thing, otherwiese than God hath appointed: Let the godly consider. Predestination Predestination (whereof now this question is, we call the eternal and immutable decree of God, by the which he hath once determined with himself, what he will have to be done with every man. For he hath not created all (as after shallbe proved) to be of one condition. Or if we will have the definition of Predestination more large: we say, that it is, the most wise and most just purpose of God, by the which before all time he constantly hath decreed to call those whom he hath loved in Christ, to the knowledge of himself and of his son Christ jesus, that they may be assured of their adoption by the justification of faith, which working in them by charity, maketh their works to shine before men to the glory of their father, so that they (made conform to the image of the son of God) may finally receive that glory, which is prepared for the vessels of mercy. These latter parts (to wit of vocation, justification of faith▪ and of the effect of the same) have I added, for such as think that we imagine it sufficient, that we be predestinate, how wickedly so ever we live. We constantly affirm the plane contrary: To wit, that none living wickedly, can have the assurance, that he is predestinate to lief everlasting. Yea although man and Angel would bear record with him, yet will his own conscience condemn him, unto such time as unfeignedly he turn from his wicked conversation. These terms I thought good in the beginning to explain, to the end that the reader may the better understand our meaning in the same, and that we be not after often compelled to repeat them again. Now to that Which ye call the first error. THE ADVERSARY. God hath not created all men to be saved by any manner of meanness, The second section. but before the foundation of the world he hath chosen a certain to salvation which is but a small flock, and the rest which be innumerable he hath reprobate and ordained to condemnation. Because so it pleaseth him. ANSWER. They are not only reputed liars and called falls witnesses, that boldly and plainly affirm a lie in plane and express words, but such also as in reciting the minds of other men, change their meaning by altering their words, by adding more than they spoke, or by dyminishing that which might explain the things that remained obscure or more fully might express the mind of the speakers. And in all these three vices are you criminal in this your first accusation or witnessing laid against us. For our words ye have altogether altered: to them ye have added, and from the ye have diminished that which ye think may aggravate and make odious our cause. And therefore I say, ye are detestable liars, and malicious accusers. For probation hereof I appeal to our writings, be they in latin, french, Italiam, or english (in so many tongues this matter is written) if that any of you be able to bring forth our propositions in any of them in this your form, and containing your whole words, I offer to make satisfaction unto you, (whether ye will be word or writing) that I have hieghly offended in calling you detestable liars. But if ye be never able to show any such words used by us (as plane it is ye be not) them your master Castalio and you both are far from that perfection (to speak no more bitterly) which ye pretend. Liars are the devils sons. For ye are manifest liars: and whose sons they are called, you can not be ignorant, accusing men of that they never meant. For thus formeth Castalio his first falls accusation against Master Calvin. God hath created to perdition the most part of the world by the naked bare and pure pleasure of his own wil And this same ye affirm in more words more impudently patched▪ so both you and he do add to our words of your own malicious mind. These sentences: God hath created the most part of the world, which is an innumerable multitude, to perdition, only because it so pleased him, you steal from our words, and suppress that which ever we join when we make mention of god's predestination, to wit, that he hath created all things for his own glory. That albeit the cause of gods will be incomprehensible, secret, and hid from us, when of the same mass he ordained some vessels to honour, and some to destruction, yet it is most just, most holy: and most to be reverenced. Now to the further declaration aswell of our mind as of your shameless malice, I shall recite some setences of master Caluin, as doth that godly and learned man Theodorus Beze against the crafty surmise of your master Castalio. I say (faith john Calvin) with Augustin, that of God they were created whom without doubt he foreknew to go to perdition: and that was so done because so he would. Why he would, it appertaineth not to us to inquire, who can not comprehend it: neither yet is it convenient, that the will of God shall descend and come down to be decided by us. Of the which so oft as mention is made under the name of it, is the supreme and most high rule of justice nominated. And further we affirm, that which the scripture clearly showeth, to wit, that God did once by his eternal and immutable counsel appoint, whom somty me he should take to salvation, and also whom he should condemn to destruction. Institut. Cap. 14. Sect. 5. We affirm those whom he judgeth worthy of participation of salvation to be adoptate and chosen of his free mercy for no respect of their own dignity: but whom he giveth to condemnation, to the same he shooteth up the entries to life by his incomprehensible judgement. But yet by that judgement, that neither can not may be reproved. And in another work. De aeterna Dei predestination. If we be not ashamed saith he of the Gospel, it behoveth us to confess that which therein is manifestly taught, that is, that God of his aeternal good pleasure, whose cause dependeth upon none other, hath destinate to salvation whom it pleased him, the rest being rejected And whom he hath honoured with his free adoption, those he illuminateth by his Spirit, that they may receive the life offered in Christ: Others by their own will so remaining unfaithful, that being destitute of the light of faith, they continue in darkness. Also that which saint Augustine writeth: So is the will of God the hieghest rule of justice, Institut. Cap. 14. Sect. 14. that what so ever he will in so far as he willeth it, it is to be holden just. therefore when the question is why did God so? It is to be answered: Because so he would. But if thou proceed ask, why he would, thou seekest a thing greater and more high than Gods will, which can not be found. And after saith he: We must ever return to the pleasure of his will, the cause whereof is hid within himself. But to make this matter more evident, I will adduce one or two places more, and so put end to this your forged accusation for this tyme. In his book which he writeth of the eternal predestination of God, thus he saith. Albeit that God before the derection of Adam had determined for causes hid to us, what he was to do, yet in scriptures we read nothing to be condemned or him, except sin. And so it resteth, that he had just causes (but hid from us) in rejecting a part of men: for he hateth nor damneth nothing in man, but that which is contrary to his justice. Calvin upon Isaiah. Also writing upon isaiah the 23. chap. upon these words: The Lord of hosts hath decreed, to profane the pride of all the noble ones etc.▪ he saith, let us learn of this place, that the providence of God is to be considered of us, that to him we may give the glory and praise of his omnipotecie, for the wisdom and the justice of God are to be joined with his power. Therefore as the scriptures teach us, that God by his wisdom doth this or that, so do they teach us a certain end why he doth this or that: for the imagination of the absolute power of God which the schoolmen have invented, is an execrable blasphemy: for it is as much as they should say, that God were a tyrant, that appointed things to be done not according to equity but according to his inordinate appetite. With such blasphemies be the schools replenished, The schoeles of Papists full of blasphemies. neither yet differ they from the Ethnics who did affirm, that God jested or did sport in the matters of men. But we are taught in the school of Christ, that the justice of God shineth in his works what so ever they be, that the mouths of all men may be stopped, and glory may be given to him alone. And therefore the Prophet rehearseth just causes of this destruction (meaning of the destruction of Tyrus) that we shall not think that God doth any thing without reason. Those of tire were ambitious, proud, avaricious, lecherous, & dissolute. What is he so simple, which may not now consider and understand, what was your malice and devilish intenion▪ in patching up this your first accusation? not the zeal of god's glory, as you falsely pretend: but the hatred which ye have conceived against them who have sought your salvation. For if ye had meant any thing simply, ye should not have added that which ye be never able to show in our writings: neither yet can ye lawfully prove, that we have spoken the same in reasoning with any of you. We (so taught by the scriptures) with reverence do affirm, that God, for just causes albeit unknown and hid to us, hath rejected a part of men. But you (making no mention of any cause) affirm, that we hold, that he hath created the most part of the world (which is innumerable) to no other end, but to perdiction, in which shameless lie your malice pasteth measure: For neither do we rashly define the number of the one nor of the other, howbeit the scripture in divers places affirmeth, Christ's ●●ocke to be the little flock, the number to be few, that findeth the way that leadeth to life▪ this notwithstanding (I say) we use not boldly, to pronounce, whether of the nobres shallbe the greater, but which all sobriety we exhort the people committed to our charge, not to follow the multitude to iniquity. For if they do, there is no multitude that can prevail against God. And so to us in this behalf ye are greatly injurious. But yet in the second part, your malice is more manifest: for ye burden us, that we should affirm, that the end of the creation of the reprobate, was none other but their eternal perdition. From which calumny master Calvin clearly purgeth us in these words. Inst. cap. 14. sect. 17. All ought to know (saith he) that which Solomon saith, that God hath created all for himself, and the wicked also to the evil day. Consider and mark, that we (instructed by the holy Ghost) do first affirm, that the cause and end why the reprobate were created, neither was, nor is not, their only perdition (as ye burden us) but that the glory of God must needs appear and shine in all his works. And secondarily we teach, that their perdition doth so depend upon god's predestination, that the just cause and matter of their perdition is found within themselves, and that albeit the decree and counsel of God be incomprehensible to men's understanding, yet nevertheless it is most just and most holy. And thus have I so plainly and in so few words as conveniently I could expound in what points ye are malicious liars, what ye have added of hatred to our words, and what ye suppress that the equity of our cause should not appear to men. God grant you (if his good pleasure be) with greater modesty to write, and with more humility to reason in those hieghe mysteries, which far surmount the reach of man's capacity. But now I proceed to the preface of your confutation which thus beginneth. THE ADVERSARY. The confutation of the first error. To prove this true, The third section. they can bring forth no plane testimony of the word. For there is no such saying in the holy scripture that God hath reprobate man afore the world: But the sentences which they allege be far set and forged, contrary to the meaning of the holy Ghost, as God willing it shall plainly appear. And where scripture will not serve, they patch their tale with unreasonable reasons for their hole intention is contrary to true reason. ANSWER. In very deed, if all were true which ye have heaped up in your unjust accusation, I for my part, would not ashame to confess, that more were affirmed then plane scriptures do teach: but your additions which before we have touched, being removed, and that added which of malice ye have omitted, I hope, that our proposition shallbe so plane and simple, that the reasonable man (if he be godly,) shall neither lack good reason nor plane scriptures to confirm the same. Albeit that ye are bold to affirm, that we have neither scripture nor good reason, and that our whole intention is contrary to true reason. But now let us form our own propositions. Two chief propositions God in his eternal and immutable counsels hath once appointed and decreed whom he would take to salvation, and whom also he would leave in ruin and perdition. Those whom he elected to salvation, he receiveth of free mercy without all respect had to their own merits or dignity, but of undeserved love gave them to his only son to be his inheritance, and then in time he calleth of purpose, who as his sheep obey his voice, and so do they attain to the joy of that kingdom which was prepared for them before the foundations of the world were laid. But to those whom he hath decreed to leave in perdition, is so shut up the entry of life, that either they are left continually corrupted in their blindness, or else if grace be offered, by them it is oppugned and obstinately refused, or if it seem to be received, that abideth but for a time only, and so they return to their blindness and crooked nature and infidelity again, in which finally they justly perish. Because the hole controversy standeth in this whether God hath chose any to lief everlasting before the beginning of all times leving others in their just perdition, or not, my purpose is first by plane scriptures to prove the affirmative, and after in weighing the same and other scriptures, that by God's grace shallbe adduced, so plainly as I can to show unto you, what horrible absurdity, inevitably followeth upon your error in which ye affirm, that God hath chosen no man more one than an other▪ that either your blindness removed, ye may turn with all humility to the eternal son of the eternal God, against whom you arm yourselves, or else that your damnation may be the more so deign and just, for your refusal of the plain light offered. That God hath chosen before the foundation of the world, witnesseth the Apostle, saying: Blessed be God the Father of our Lord jesus Christ, Ephes. 1. who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessing in heavenly things by Christ as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world was laid, that we should be holy and without blame before him by love. Here the Apostle in express words affirmeth that God hath chosen a certain number, (for he speaketh not to the hole world,) as you either ignorantly or else maliciously do after allege, but to his beloved congregation of Ephesus who with all obedience had received the word of lief offered, and with great patience had continued in the same even after the departure of their Apostle from them yea after his bonds and impresonnement. Such I say doth the Apostle affirm that God hath chosen, and that before the foundations of the world were laid: So that we have God's election before all beginning plainly proved. Here might I bring forth many places but I having respect to brevity stand content with this one place. That this he hath done once in his eternal and immutable counsel without respect to be had to our merits or works (which you allege to be causes of God's election) witnesseth the same Apostle proceeding as followeth: who haeth pr●destinat us, that he should adoptat vs in children by jesus Christ according to the good pleasure of his will that the glory of his grace by the which he hath made us dear, by that beloved may be praised. In whom we have redemption and by his blood remission of sin according to his abundant grace, of the which he hath plentifully poured upon us all wisdom and prudence, opening to us the secret of his will according to his good pleasure which he purposed in himself to the dispensation of the fullness of times, summarely to restore all things by Christ both those that be in the heavens, and those that be in the earth, by whom we are chosen in a portion or lot, predestinate according to the purpose of him by whose power are all things made, according to the decree of his will, that we should be to the praise of his glory. Here the holy Ghost as it were of set purpose, forcing man's unthankfulness useth words not only most proper, but also most vehement, and often repeateth the same, to beat down all pride and arrogancy of man presuming to arrogate any thing to himself in the matter of his salvation. He first saith: God hath prędestinate. And lest that some might have thought as you following the Papists, do now blasphemously affirm that so he did in respect of our worthiness, of works, or faith, in one sentence he secludeth all which is without Christ jesus and without himself, saying: he hath predestinate us to adoptate vs in children by Christ jesus in himself, according to the good pleasure of his will. If Christ jesus, yea if God the Father, his aeternal counsel, his decree and purpose, be other than our worthiness, our faith, our quality, or our good works, then neither for them nor in respect of any of them were we chosen to life. For plainly he affirmeth that by Christ in himself according to his good pleasure which he had purposed in himself, were we adoptate to be children yea and that according to the purpose and decree of his will. Here have you the same and more words than we used. For here are those words: the purpose of his good will, that he hath purposed in himself to predestinace and adoptate vs in children▪ which words do most lively express that which we affirm. But yet perchance ye lack the proof of this part, that God in his immutable counsel hath once chosen. For after, I perceive, that this doth much offend you. I trust ye will not reject the testimony of S. james, for ye seem upon his words much to lean. And he saith, that every good and perfect gift is from above, descending from the Father of light, with whom there is no variableness, neither shadowing by turning, he hath (saith he) of his own will begotten us by the word of verity. If with God, as he affirmeth, there be no variableness, then must his counsel be immutable. If in him there be not, now dareknes and now light, but that as he dwelleth in the light which is inaccessible, so are and ever have been all things present in his sight. Then in his eternal counsel there falleth neither ignorance nor repentance: and so what he once decreed, that he faithfully will perform to the praise of his own glory. But if ye will not admit my reasons, then must I bring unto you plain scriptures. That God hath chosen before the foundations of the world, that he hath predestinate, purposed, and decreed, to adoptate vs in children, is before proved. The Prophet I saiah from the forty chapter of his prophecy to the end of the same, entreateth chiefly these two arguments, upon the one part to comfort the afflicted, and despised church (which then was sore oppressed and after was to be led captive to Babylon.) Upon the other part to threaten just vengeance aswell upon the contemners of grace offered, as also upon the cruel enemy. The estate of the church was such, that all hope of liberty, redemption, and comfort was taken from them. They were as dead carrions, buried in desperation, against the which the Prophet continually fighteth, calling them from the contemplation of the present miseries, and from the sight of such impediments as to them appeared to stop their liberty, to the infallible promise of God, and to his counsel, which he affirmeth to be constant, and to his love which is immutable. And therefore so often doth he repeat. It is I the eternal, who hath created the heavens, and hath laid the foundations of the earth: It is I, It is I, that will do it for my own names sake▪ I will establish the word of my servant (he meaneth, of Isaiah and of his other Prophets, who in his name promised deliverance to the people.) and I will perform the counsel of my messengers. Is●i. 44. I say to jerusalem be thou inhabited, and to the walls of Zion be you builded. By these and many other places the Prophet travaled to lift up the people from the pit of desperation in which they were to fall by reason of their grievous calamity and long captivity, and that he might with more efficacy persuade the same, he bringeth them to the league made with Abraham, to the remembrance of their wonderful deliverance out of Egypt: and to the lenity of God which their Fathers had found at all times. But in vane had all his labour been if god's counsel, decree, and purpose had been changeable. For easily they might have objected: to what use serveth us the promise made to Abraham, or the kindness of God which our fore fathers tasted? We have refused God and therefore hath he refused and rejected us, he hath broken his league and covenant with us. But against all these desperate voices, and against your blasphemous error, who affirm that god's counsel and purpose changeth, as man doth, lighteth and prevailleth the Prophet, Saing: My cogitations are not your cogitations, neither are your ways my ways (saith the eternal). Isaiah 55. But like as the heavens are higher than the earth so do my ways excel your ways, and my thoughts your thoughts. And the word that pasteth forth of my mouth, shall not return void to me. But it shall do what so ever I will (note and give glory to God) and it shall prosper in those things to the which I have sent it: I doubt not but that the godly reader doth clearly see the mind of the Prophet to be, to rebuke the vanity of the jews believing that gods counsels, covenant and love, were subject to such mutability as they themselves were in there counsels love, and promises. But the Prophet maketh so much difference betwixt the one and the other as is betwixt the heaven and the earth, and doth further affirm, that as the dew and rain do not fall and come down in vane, so shall not the word which God speaks (which is of more excellency than all creatures) lack his effect: but it shall work the will of God, and shall prosper as he hath appointed it, and that because it is God who hath spoken that, which was purposed in his eternal and immutable counsel before all times. Upon this ground and foundation (that is upon God's immutable love and counsel) build●●h the Prophet the salvation and del●nerance of the church, Isaiah. 54 as more plainly he speaketh in these words: For this shallbe to me as the waters of Noah: for as I have sworn, that the waters of Noah shall no more overgo the earth, so have I sworn, that I shall not be angry at the neither yet rebuke thee: Rather shall the mountanes leave their place, and the hills shake, then that my goodness shall leave thee, or that the covenant of my peace sh●ll waver (sayeth the eternal, who ha●h compassion upon ●hee). Which only one place is sufficient to prove what so ever we have affirmed, that is, that gods counsel, love, and goodness, towards his church, is immutable. For the example and the similitude which he bringeth in, The constancy of God's prom●s. are most plane and evident. The waters have never universally over flown the earth, since the days of Noah to whom he made his covenant to the contrary, and yet no les iniquity (yea greater) hath reigned in all aeges since, then did before. What is the the cause that the like or greater vengeance is not taken? The certainty no doubt of his promise, which he hath made to his church in Christ jesus his only well-beloved. The montanes we see in all tempests and storms do keep their place, they do not flit, neither yet are they shaken with the v●hemencie of winds. But if they should (saith the eternal) my goodness shall not leave thee (o mercy without measure) neither shall the covenant of my peace shake nor waver. Thus I suppose, that the godly reader doth perceive and see, that we lack not scripture (as ye affirm) to prove, that gods love and counsel towards his elect is stable, and that because it is grounded upon himself and not upon us, as, (to your condemnation, if by times ye repent not) ye falsely imagine. But yet lest that ye shall complain that these scriptures be not plane yhough, I will bring in yet one, and so end this part: Hear me o house of jacob, and all you residue of the house of Israel, Isaia. 46. who are borne of me from the womb, and borne of me from the birth: and even to the age I am he (the same God) and even to the white hears I shall bear, I have done, and I shall bear, yea I shall bear and deliver. What words can be more vehement and more plain to prove, that the love of God can never change from his elect? For that is his conclusion which he collected upon the former parts, Saing, I shall bear, and I shall d●lyuer. And why? because I have born you. Is this a good reason: that God shall deliver because that he hath once born? How so ever it seem to the Anabaptist, it seemeth good to the holy Gost. And David and job did with the like remembrance comfort themselves in their greatest tribulations. The one saying, Thou art he that hast drawn me forth of my mother's womb. Psal. 2●. In thee have I trusted hanging upon my mother's breasts: upon the was I cast from the birth: from my mother's womb thou art my God. In these words David did arm himself against the horrible temptations, which did assault him in those most grievous persecutions which under Saul he sustained. For so must not that Psalm be interpreted of Christ and his passion, that David had no portion of it: by the which when to his own judgement and to the judgement of all men also, he appeared to have been oppressed, he gathered new strength and comfort by the benefits of God, which before he had received. And so he concludeth here: Thou that art the author of my life, thou that didst nourish and preserve me even in the midst of darkness, wil● continue my God still and so shalt thou deliver me. What is the reason of this conclusion? David himself doth express it saying: O Lord thy mercy is everlasting, thou shalt not leave the works of thine hands. Isal. 138. In which words David from the midst of troubles is lift up to the contemplation of god's nature: who as he chooseth of free mercy and bestoweth his gifts upon his children, before that either they can deserve them or yet know them, so doth he continue the same most constantly to the end unto the membres of Christ's body, and upon this same ground alone stayed the faith of job in his most extreme anguish for in these words he doth as it were complain to God. Thy hands have made me, and fashioned me wholly round about and wilt thou destroy me. job. 10. Remember I pray the that how hast fashioned me as the Potter doth his clay, and wilt thou bring me into dust again? Hast thou not poured me out as milk and turned me to cruds like cheese. Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh and joined me together with bones and sinews. Thou hast given me life and grace and thy visitation hath preserved my spirit. Though thou hast hid these things in thine heart I know tharst is so with thee▪ Here it is plain, that job fighteth against desperation which vehemently did assault him by reason of his pains intolerable. And in his battle he apprehendeth this hold: God hath begun to show mercy unto me which in many things I have felt, and I still depend and hang upon the same, therefore my God may not despise the works of his hands. And so far proceedeth he in this disputation, till that he maketh this conclusion (which God after did approve.) I know (saith job) that my revenger liveth, whom I shall see, yea my n●cis shall see him, and none other. Upon what ground I say did this faith of job stand? No doubt upon this, that gods counsel is stable, and that his love is immutable towards such as once he had taken in to his safeguard. And if ye doubt that this is rather our collection then the plain sentence of the holy Ghost, confer our proposition with the former words of Isaiah, and let it be judged by them. And if that yet ye cry that we have brought forth no plain scripture affirming that the counsel of God is immutable, then hear what the same Prophet saith. It is I (saith he (that from the beginning show the things that be last and from the beginning those things that be not done. It is I that do speak and my counsel is stable. Isaia. 46. and what so ever I will, that I do. Consider and behold that the Prophet affirmeth the counsel of God to be stable, yea to be so immutable, that neither could the tyranny of the enemies neither yet the former sins of the people, neither yet their present unthankfulness stop God from showing his mercy. Because that his infinite goodness found away even in the midst of death to manifest his own glory. Such as by malice be not altogether blinded, having any exercise in the scripptures of God, may easily perceive, that I have wrested no part of the prophets mind. For continually one thing doth he beat in their ears, to wit, that God will show mercy, will deliver, and will be Saviour unto them for his Names sake for his promise made to Abraham, and for the glory of himself. But now shortly let us hear two or three places of the new testament spoken to the same purpose, and so let us put end to this part. Our master Christ jesus plainly affirmeth, that all which the father gave him, should come unto him, pronouncing that who soever cometh he ●old not cast him forth, john. 6. but will raise him up and give him life. For this (saith he) is the will of the Father that hath sent me, that I shall lose nothing of all those which the Father hath given to me, but that I might raise them up in the last day. for this is the will of him that hath sent me, that all that seeth the Son and believeth in him, may have life everlasting. Of those words of our master, it is evident, first that the Father hath given some to th● Son Christ jesus, yea and also that some be, that are not given. But of that after. And sec●ndarely that it behoveth the same to come unto him, for so he affirmeth saying. All that my father gave unto me, shall come unto me. He leaveth it not in doubt, but plainly affirmeth they shall come. Thirdly the end and fruit of the coming is expressed: to wit, that they obtain life everlasting. Which to them that of the father are given and of the Son received, is so sure, that Christ jesus himself pronounceth, that out of his hands is none able to pluck them away. Plain it is, that the counsel of God is stable and his love immutable towards his elect, because (all other conditions set apart) Christ affirmeth, that the life everlasting pertaineth to them that are given by God, and received by him in protection and safeguard. But more plainly doth he speak in that his solemn prayer: joan. 17. for after that by divers means he had comforted the sorrowful hearts of his disciples, he giveth comfort to the whole church: Affirming, that he did not pray only for those that there were present with him, but also for all those that should after believe (by their preaching) in him. These words he added for our singular comfort: I have given unto them the glory which thou hast given to me, that they may be one as we are one, I in them and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know, that thou hast sent me and that thou hast loved them as thou hast loved me. O that our hearts could without contradiction embrace these words: for them with humility should we prostrate ourselves before our God, and with unfeigned tears give thanks for his mercy. Three things in these words are to be observed, first that the same glory which God the Father hath given to his Son, the same hath he given to such as believe in him: not that either Christ jesus had then the full glory, as he was man (for as yet he had not overcome the death) neither that his elect at any time in this life can attain to the fruition of the same, but that the one was as assured in gods immutable counsel as was the other. For as the head should overcome the bitter death, and so triumph over sathan the author thereof, so should his membres in the time appointed, as he doth further express, saying: I will (Father) that where, that I am, there also be those which thou hast given unto me, that they may see my glory. The second is that so stre●t and ●ere is the conjunction and union betweixt Christ jesus and his membres, that they must be one, and never can be separated. For so did Christ pray, Saing: That they all may be one, as we are one. I in them and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one. Let the conjunction be diligently marked: for much it serveth to our com●ort. As the Godhead is inseparably joined with the humanity in Christ jesus our Lord, so the one that is the God head, neither could nor can leave the humanity at any tyme. how bitter that ever the storms appeared: so can not Christ jesus leave his dear spouse the Church, neither yet any true member of the same. For that he includeth under the general word (all) for any accident, how horrible that ever it be, that came to pass in their life. And albeit that this appear strange, and also a doctrine that may seem to give liberty to sin, yet may not the children of God be defrauded of their food, because that dogs will abuse the same. But of this we shall (God willing) after speak. The third thing to be noted, is, that the love of God towards his elect given to Christ is immutable. For Christ putteth it in equal balance with the love by the which his Father loved him. Not that I would any man should so understand me, as that I placed any man in equal dignity and glory with Christ jesus touching his office. No that must be reserved wholly and only to himself: that he is the ●lie beloved, in whom all the rest are beloved: that he is the head, that only giveth life to the body: and that he is the sovereign prince, before whom all knee shall bow. But I mean, that as the love of God the Father was ever constant towards his dear Son, so is it also towards the membres of his body, yea even when they are ignorant, and enemies unto him, Rom. 6. as the apostle witnesseth Saing: God specially commendeth his love towards us, that when we were yet sinners, Christ died for us: much more being justified now by his blood, we shall be saved by him from wrath. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more we being reconciled shall be saved by his life. To some, these words may appear contrary to our purpose, for they make mention of a reconciliation, which is not made, but where there is enmity and dissension. But if they be righteously considered they shall most evidently prove that, which we affirm, which is, that God loved the membres of Christ's body, even when they are ignorant, when they by themselves are unworthy and enemies. For this is his first proposition, that we being justified by faith, have peace with God by our Lord jesus Christ. Where he maketh mention of peace, he putteth us in mind of the dissension and war which was betwixt gods justice and our sins. This enmity (saith he) is taken away, and we have obtained peace. And le●t that this comfort should● suddenly vanish, or else that men should not deeply weigh it, he bringeth us to the eternal love of God, affirming that God loved us when we were weak. Where we must observe, that the apostle speaketh not universally of all men, but of such as were and should be justified by faith▪ and had the love of God poured in to their hearts by the holy Ghost which was given unto them. To such saith he. if God did love us when we were weak and his enemies, much more must he love us when we are reconciled, and begin in faith to call him father. The Apostle affirmeth, that our reconciliation proceeded from god's love: which thing saint johan more plainly doth witness in these words: In this appeareth the love of God towards us, that God hath sent forth his only Son into the world that we should live by him. In this I say is love, 1. joan. 4. not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and hath sent his Son the propitiation for our sins. so that both those apostles in plain words do speak, that which before I have affirmed to wit, that God loved the membres of Christ jesus even when they were enemies aswell touching their knowledge and apprehension, as also touching the corruption of their nature, which was not regenerate. And so I conclude as before, that the love of God to vardes his elect is stable and immutable, as it which beginneth not in time, neither dependeth upon our worthiness or dignity: which truth is contrary to that which I perceive ye hold and affirm. Thus far (I trust) we have sufficiently proved, and that by plain scriptures, and by no patched unreasonable reasons (as the author of your book accuseth us.) That God hath his elect, whom in Christ jesus he hath chosen, and that of decreed purpose, to give them life. Which purpose, counsel, and love of God is sure stable, and immutable. Now resteth to prove, that God hath rejected some, and also to note the absurdities which follow upon your doctrine, and so shall I not be compelled after in the discourse to spend time and travel to confute your error. That God ●ath reprobated any, appeareth to you horrible. Yea, and ye affirm, God to be more cruel than any wild beast, if so he did. For thus ye writ in your book as followeth. THE ADVERSARY. God hath given to all his sensible creatures a natural inclination to love their births, The fourth section. then doth God also love his birth as he saith, shall I cause other to bear and shall not I also bear? Likewise shall God make other to love their births, and he not love his own birth? Man is the birth and child of God created to his own image and similitude (as the Prophet saith have we not alone father? Zach. 3. Hath not one God made us? And Paul saith: Act. 17. we are the generation of God. Wherefore God loveth his own birth, that is man. Then did he not reprobate, and cast away man afore he was. For that were a proof, that he hated and abhorred his own birth above all other. Now there is no wild beast, much les any man which would bring forth their birth to destruction. How much les than becometh it the goodness of God to make and bring forth like to his own image and similitude unto perpetual confusion? ANSWER. How bold, how shameless, and how blasphemous thou declarest thyself (I speak to thee and they companion's that collected these blasphemies) It shall shortly appear after that I have by gods grace with simple perspicuity declared the truth. True it is that to the natural man nothing appeareth more absurd, nor more repugnant to good reason (as men term it) then that all shall depend upon gods will and appointment for so think they, that God can not avoid the suspicion of injustice, yea say they he can not be purged nor made fire from malice and cruelty. But such as entering within themself do but in a part consider what is their own condition, what is there ignorance, and how far they are inferior to the angels in justice and knowledge, to his holy angels (I say) that be most obedient and continually stand before his face, and yet nevertheless do cover their faces, and of very reverence neither dare nor will rashly behold the brightness of his glory. If further we shall consider that as in God, his wisdom, his power, his goodness and mercy are infinite, so are his judgements and justice (in the self most righteous) incomprehensible to the dullness of our wits. For as his wisdom and power far surmount all that we can imagine, so are his judgements and justice a great deep (as David affirmeth, and in the book of job, is plainly described) able to swallow up and utterly to cofounde all our senses. Alas, shall I, whose corporal eye is so feeble and weak, that directly it can not behold the son which is a visible creature, but that it shall be blinded and dasylled: shall I, I say, direct the eye of my mind (corrupted by sin) to measure and comprehend the brightness of his justice, who dwelleth in the light inaccessible? If man could impose or prescribe to God a law and measure of wisdom, power, mercy, and goodness, so that none of them should otherwise be in his eternal God head, the man could understand & approve: the some appearance might they have to bring his justice (which is no les infinite and incomprehensible than the others) under the censure and examination of their judgement and reason. But what bold and foolish presumption is this? that man, who knoweth not fully what lies within his own heart, shall without all reverence enter to judge the secret mysteries, the full knowledge whereof doth only abide in the eternal God head. That impudently he shall pronounce: this can not be just, because we do neither see nor understand the cause of the justice. God grant us greater humility, more reverence and fear (which righteously is called the beginning of wisdom) then that so rashly and proudly we shall presume to damn that which we understand not. Lest that doing the contrary, that malediction pronounced by ● saiah fall upon us, where he saith: Isaiah. 45 Woe be to him that reasoneth with his maker, the vessel of clay with the potter. Doth the clay say to the potter, what makest thou? and thy work hath no hands, woe be to him that saith to his father, what shalt thou beget? This I thought expedient briefly to admonish the godly reader, before I did enter in to plane battle with the adversary. Beseeching further such as do not err in this article of set purpose and malice but rather of ignorance and simplicity, not to be offended, as though I did stomach against them, if at any time I shall handle the impudent writer or collector of this book (whose nature is better known unto me then unto many of them) according to his malicious frowardness: But now shortly to the matter. The proposition and conclusion of this writer are both one: to wit, God hath not rejected nor reprobated any man. His reasons and arguments (as the reader may perceive) are: for that were against the nature of God, with he thus proveth, God causeth others to bear and therefore he beareth. And so bringing his argument from this similitude: The saying of a blaspphemous mouth. God maketh beasts love their births: therefore ●eloueth his births: but all men are the births of God. For God is the father of Adame, of whom are all men borne. therefore he loveth all men. If he loveth, them did he roprobate none, for that should declare, that he hated and abhorred, and were more cruel than a wild, beast. These be thy arguments, (blasphemous mouth) In answering whereto if I shall seem to exceed modesty, let the godly consider, that thy horrible blasphemies are intolerable. And first I call the heaven and earth, the insensible creatures, and the judgement of reasonable men to witness with me, how beastly be thy cogitations of the eternal God head: when thou sayest. God must love his births, because he hath given a natural inclination to all beasts to love their births. If thy reason be good, then must God forget some of his births in their youth, and reject all care of them. For that same nature giveth God to some fowls, as the book of job doth witness in these words (speaking of the Ostrich) which leaveth his eggs in the earth and maketh them hot in the dust, job. 39 and forgetteth that the foot might scatter them or that the wild beast might break them. He showeth himself cruel unto his young ones as they were not his and is without fear as if he travaled in vain. For God hath deprived him of wisdom and hath given him no part of understanding. If thy reason I say be good, God must love his birth, because he causeth all other beasts love their births. Then I say, it must also follow, God shall forget, and hardly entreat some, for such nature and inclination hath he given to some of his creatures as is plainly proved. What the adversary will say. I do mean (thou wilt say) of love only: but the scripture (which either ignorantly, or else maliciously thou corruptest) declareth the contrary for thou wilt make God to bear, because he causeth others to bear. That scripture I say thou dost pervert, as thou dost all the rest. For what the Prophet of God applieth to the miraculous restoration of the church which then was most afflicted, that thou dost allege to make God have like asrections with brute beasts. And that neither thou nor any other shall have occasion to report, that I accuse the wrongfully. Isaia. 66. I will recite the hole words of the Prophet, who thus speaketh: Before she hath traveled of child birth she hath borne, and before that dolour come, she brought forth a man, who hath heard the like? or who hath seen the like unto this? was the earth builded (he meaneth set in order) in one day? was there ever a nation borne at once, and yet Zion hath travaled of child birth, and at once hath she brought forth her children, he addeth the cause of this supernatural multiplication and felicity, Saying: shall I bring to a strait? and shall I not cause to bear? saveth the eternal? shall I cause to bear and shall) make restraint saith thy God, They are more than blind which do not see, that God in these words hath neither respect to the natural inclination of beasts, neither yet to any common love that he beareth to his creatures. But to that incomprehensible and unchangeable love which he beareth to his church: the multiplication, the joy and felicity whereof, he will at once bring forth in such sort that his elect shall never remember to their grief that they sustained any passion or pain: Let the indifferent reader compare this interpretation with the plane words of the Prophet: and so let thyself judge, how irreverently thou dost abuse the most comfortable words of the holy Ghost, to establish thy error. But let it be, that thou didst mean of love, and of no affection else, Art thou becume so bold, and impudent, that thou darest subject God, to the law, limits and bounds of nature? To speak the matter more plainly. I ask of the first if thou wilt deny the love of God to be perfect except that he do for all manner of men that which beasts naturally do for their births. secondarily if thou filthy earth darest burden God in his presence with cruelty) as now thou dost in thy blind rage, if he hath not created and made all men of equal estate condition and dignity. Thirdly if thou shalt stand in judgement, and lay injustice to his charge, if he show mercy to whom he will, and also indurate and make hard who he will. For all these three, The works of God can not be subject to our reason will I plainly prove, that God doth, first that he doth not for his dearest children to our judgement, that which beasts naturally do for their births, I trust thyself will easily confess. For the Tiger, the bear, the Lion and others do so tender their whelps, that even against the strength of man (were he never so valiant) will they fight for defence of their young ones, but we do see that God commonly doth so permit his dearest children to the cruel appetites of the most wicked men, that for a season he appeareth to have forgotten them, and to have turned his face and countenance from them. And shall we therefore think, that gods love is not perfect or that his power is diminished or his good will towards his children changed? The reason of anabaptists. God forbidden. But this say you doth not offend us, but that God should reprobat any man whom he created to his own image and similitude that we can not bear, for it repugneth to his love and justice. Well of your first reason which you draw from nature, Answer. I suppose we have obtained that God is not bound in all things to follow the natural love of his creatures. The adversary falsely and unreverently allegeth this word birth. For he doth often suffer, (and I trust ye will not say that he is enforced so to do) his dearest children most cruelly to be handled, which no beast willingly will do. Now let us weigh your second reason. man sayeth your book is, the birth, and child of God created to his own image and similitude (as the Prophet saith) wherefore God loveth his own birth (that is man) Then did he not reprobate and cast away man afore he was: for that were a proof that he hated and abhorred. Omitting your ignorance by the which ye apply generally to all men those promesses which the Prophet Malachi spoke to the people of God. Answer. Let it be granted unto you that as all men were created in Adam, Malac. 2. so God some manner of way is their father: what will or can ye thereof conclude. That God loveth all say you. If you understand and affirm that equally God loveth all because all were created by him, the common experience and the diversity of gods gifts shall reprove your vaniti●for unto one man we see greater gifts given then unto other, some we see virtuous and others given to nothing but to iniquity. If you say, he loveth them in that he offereth unto them his grace which when they refuse, then beginneth he to hate them, you have proved nothing of your intent, and further the plain scripture confuteth this your error. and first I say that before ye can prove your conclusion to be good, ye must prove that all men stood, do stand, and be born in the same perfection that Adame was created in. For it doth not follow, that God still loveth all men, because he loved Adam (created to his own image and similitude.) The reason is. Adam did fall from that image, became rebellious inobedient, and slave to the devil. And in the same damnation wrapped all his posterity. What we have in Adam. So that now from Adam we can claim nothing, but sin, wrath, death, and hatred, as the apostle affirmeth, that of nature we were all the sons of wraeths. If ye allege that the apostle speaketh in that place, of man as he is corrupted in Adame, and so justly deprived from god's favour, than I demand of you (if man doth yet stand in Adame) which if ye confess, the holy spirit shall convict you of alley. For by the mouth of the Apostle he affirmed that by one man sin entered in to the world and by the means of sin death came upon all men, so that in the first man Adame (who fell from his purity, have we neither love, justice, nor life, but the contraries, to wit hatred, sin, and death. But God as he had chosen his elect before all beginning in Christ jesus his Son, so hath he placed these gifts in the second Adam alone▪ that of his fullness we may all receive even grace for grace. And thus ye may easily perceive, how vane be your arguments which you judged most strong. Your first, drawn from nature and natural inclination, proveth nothing, because that God who is always free, can not be subject to the laws of nature. Albeit that for our weakness he some times useth similitudes taken from nature. Your second is like vain, seeing that neither Adam himself did stand in his perfection, neither is any of his corrupted seed as he is the some of Adam borne in that condition and dignity: But contrary wise, we must refuse flesh, and blood, nature and our first Adam, if ever we shall be partakers of life. This only were sufficient to confute, both your unreasonable reasons. But that, here after ye shall have no occasion to complain of obscurity, neither yet that we relent in any part, I will first simply propose what we teach and believe, and there after by gods grace evidently prove the same. Error of anabaptists. You make the love of God common to all men and that do we constantly deny, and say that before all beginning God hath loved his elect in Christ jesus his Son and that from the same eternity he hath reprobate others: The affirmations of the true Christians whom for most just causes in the time appointed to his judgement he shall adiuge to torments and fire inextinguible. Here you stomach, and storm, here ye cry blasphemy, and here you say, that we affirm that, which can not be proved by gods scriptures. How sure is the probation of the former part, let the indifferent reader judge by that which is all ready spoken. Let us now come to the second. And that ye shall not think that I shall more depend upon arguments and reason then upon scripture, Gen. 3. I will begin with scripture, and let arguments and reason serve only in stead of hand maids, which shall not command but obey scripture pronounced by the voice of God. After that by rebellion man was spoiled of all graces, and that the contrary vices had taken place and possession in the hearts of both these miserable creatures, of Adam I mean, and of the woman. God pronounced this sentence against the serpent. Because thou hast done this, cursed art thou amongst all the beasts of the earth. I shall establish enmity betwixt the and that woman, betwixt thy seed, and her seed. That seed shall break down thy head and thou shalt break down his heel. As I suppose no man willbe so impudent, as to deny that this is the voice of God, pronouncing and promising, that he will establish and put a battle, where none was appearing to be: for sathan before had obtained such victory, and so had vanquished both the woman and Adam, that they could never have resisted that servitude by themselves. And therefore doth he disclose the bowels of his mercy, and doth communicate with them that counsel which was secret with himself before all beginning. Question. And if ye demand, How can it be proved, that this was his eternal counsel? I answer because, Answer. that he in whom there is no changing nor variableness, hath now pronounced it: and whether this reason be sufficient or not in answering to your objection we shall after consider. Now resteth it only to be observed, whether it was the will of God or not to make a difference betwixt man and man. Plain it is that before his face as touching the first birth, there standeth but one lump, or mass (as saint Paul termeth it) and yet from the same are two sedes appointed to spring, which are the two churches: The elect contained under the seed of the woman, and the reprobate or malignant church comprehended under the name of the serpent's seed. The church of Christ and the serpente●i sede. To the one is promised victory, to the other is denounced by the irrevocable sentence of God the▪ broosing of the head, which is destruction and confusion. I think ye will not say, that he was constrained there to by any force exterior as we speak, seeing he is the eternal which changeth not, ever abiding Lord over all creatures, who may and doth perform what so ever he will in heaven and in earth. Then of necessity it must follow, that this battle is appointed by his will. And that do the words plainly bear. For he saith not I know that there shall be a battle, or I will suffer and permit [as you use to interpret such places] a battle to be, but he plainly saith, I will put and establish the battle and enmity, declaring thereby, that as he was the force, strength, and the conductor to the seed of the woman so would he most assuredly give victory to the same. Which thing S. Augustine diligently did note, and godly admonished. De bono perseverant Affirming, that our condition in Christ jesus is now better and more sure, then before was the condition of Adam in his own fire will. For that, that he had non other strength, but that which might be and was overcome. But we have the strength that is invincible because it is the power of the eternal. This one place I say doth most evidently prove, that God willingly maketh a difference betwixt man and man, appointing to the one sort victory, Reply of the adversary. and lief, to the other subjection and death. But yet ye reply this can not be proved to be the eternal counsel of God. for it is pronounced in respect of the faith works and obedience of the one, and in respect of the infidelity vicious living and inobedience of the other. Your objection (which here I now entreat that after I be the les troubled) hath two membres, the former will I now touch, abiding better opportunity for the other. Where ye allege, that this can not be proved to have been the eternal counsel of God, because it was pronounced in time, your reason appeareth (and is) more than foolish. For what is he that against he plain scripture of God will affirm this reason. The kingdom of heaven s●albe given in the end of the world to the elect of God, therefore it was not prepared to them before the beginning. Doth not (I say) the plain voice of Christ condemn this vain reason: Or if I should say: the death of Christ was four thousand years after the beginning, therefore the lamb was not killed from the beginning. Were not this most foolish▪ and contrary to the plane scriptures? But is not the contrary reason most sure▪ most true and strong? God in time hath pronounced, and his sentence being once pronounced, most constantly doth he execute the same: therefore it was his eternal and immurable counsel. As our election was purposed and decreed in gods eternal counsel before the beginning of all times, and yet from age to age was the same revealed to his chosen children. Did therefore the Apostle or rather the bo●ie Ghost lie (who doth affirm, that we were elected) as before is proved in Christ jesus before all time? Even so is it in this matter, the sentence by the which the battle came forth first to the knowledge of man was temporal. But the stability and continuance of it plainly proveth, that is was and is the eternal purpose and counsel of God. But yet more deeply to dis●ēde in to the matter. Question Was it the eternal purpose and counsel of God to create the world and so to make man to his own image and similitude? I suppose that every reasonable man will confess that so it was. Then do I ask if God was ignorant what should become on all mankind before that any creation was? so to affirm is to deny his eternal knowledge, wisdom, and God head: he did know and foresee his end▪ and yet he did create him, then if it was not his eternal counsel that to his glory this difference and diversity should be in mankind which then was but one lump or mass, why did he not give unto him such strength, as could not be overcome? It shall nothing relieve nor help you, to shift with the Papists, alleging, that God gave him free will and abundant graces by the which he might have resisted and ganestand all assaults and temptations if he would, that we deny not But yet we ask why did not God give unto him the will to resist, or why did he not so bridle sathan, that he might not have tempted him? I trust ye will not with the Manicheis affirm, that there was a power greater than the power of the good God, and that this wicked power did for a time overcome the power and destroy the counsel of the good God who was creator and lover of mankind. For that were plainly to deny the omnipotency of our God. If you say (as after ye writ) that God did one●y permit and suffer his fall, ye have said nothing to the purpose: for still I demand, whether he did suffer it willingly or unwillingly. If ye sa● willingly, then are ye cough in the snare which ye would avoid. If ye say it was against his purpose and will, them fall ye in to t●at horrible blasphemy of the manichees, denying gods omnipotent power, And if yet ye would escape, imagining God to look and behold the end of the matter, and yet neither willing the one nor the other, then fall ye into the blasphemy of Epicurus who although in plain words he durst not deny God yet did he affirm, that he regarded not the works of men, but did idly occupy the heavens. But how far this repugneth to our faith, who believe God to be omnipotent, not only because he may do all things, but also because that it is he that created light and darkness, good and evil, and finally that worketh all in all things according to the purpose of his good pleasure: let such as be but meanly exercised in the scriptures judge, and so (I say) that man's fall and the difference that came to our knowledge by the same, was no les determined in the eternal counsel of God then was his creation. And that in this sentence is yet most evidently to be espied. For if God had not purposed in himself to establish this battle and so to make a difference perpetual, God's purpose was from the beginning to make a difference in mankind. why did he not holy restore man again to honour to purity, and innocency? Why did he not stay the fountain of sin in our first father? why did he suffer his first corruption by propagation to come to his posterity? was it because he lacked power? or was it not rather as the Apostle doth teach us, that he wrapped all in unbeleif, that he might have mercy upon all? than he might she ● mercy to whom he would, and harden also whom he would? If these things do displease you, remember first that they are the voices of the holy Ghost, and secondarily call to your mind the condition of mankind, to wit that both you and we (compared with that sovereign majesty) be but worms here creeping on the earth, and therefore can we not climb up to the ●e●uen▪ and so reason or ple●d with the almighty. Call to mind I say that question of the Apostle, calling man to the consideration of himself in the same ma●er, Saing, O man ●hat art thou that thou maest answer in contrary to God? that is, contend or plead with him? This sentence I sa● ought to humble us, and make us rather to tremble at the remembrance of his judgements then rashly, and with proud stomockes to damn that, which we are not able to apprehend. But let us yet prosecute this matter further, to the end that we may see if that this hath been and is the constant will of God, and that plainly declared by his word that this former difference be kept in all aeges. No other difference was made then this general, The se●●●●de diff●●ence. till the days of Abraham, and then a more special and expreise difference was made, for that which before was common to the woman's seed, was then by the expressed voice of God appointed to Abraham and unto his seed: in these words: In thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, I will bless the and multiply thee, such as bless thee, shall I bless, and such as curse the shall I curse. In which words is no les the battle, than the benediction established. For as all nations were pronounced to be blessed in his seed (which as the Apostle doth interpret was Christ) so is it pronounced, that there shallbe some that shall curse, and therefore shall be accursed of God. Yea it is plainly spoken that four hundredth years should his seed and posterity be evil entreated in a strange country, nevertheless the people whom they shall serve shall I judge (saith the lord). So have we again the difference plainly confirmed by the voice of God. But yet God proceedeth one degree further, and in Abraham's seed he maketh difference. For in Isaac (saith he) shall thy seed be called, by the which voice he did seclude both Ishmael, and the rest of his carnal sons from that honour: affirming that from none of them should the benediction come, but only from Isaak which was the son of promise (and not of nature only). But that difference was most evidently declared in Isaakes two sons, being yet in their mother's boson▪ before they had done either good or bad, as the Apostle affirmeth. It was said by the voice of God, the elder shall serve the younger. By which voice of God revealed, did Isaak and Rebecca plainly understand, what was the cause of the battle which the mother felt in her bosom and womb: to wit, that because from her womb were two peoples and nations to proceed, which could not be of equal honour and dignity. This is the cause why all the prophets almost do declare gods wrath against Esan and Edome. For the one had he determined in his eternal counsel to elect for his peculiar people, the other to reject, and to leave them in the common corruption as the other nations: as the sequel in process of time did evidently declare. For the Edomites descending of Esau were cut of from the body of the church and became manifest enemies to the posterity of jacob because that their father was subject to jacob and pronounced to be his servant, Such as understand this place of corporal service and worldly riches or dignity only, do nothing else but show their own ignorance corrupting the meaning of the holy Gost. Psea. 137 For saint Paul in the 9 chapter to the Romans after that he hath affirmed that the promise and ●lection of God were sure (albeit that many of the carnal seed had refused Christ preached, Esaie. 34. ) he bringeth in this former sentence, jer. 49. to remove all slander: Saing, Obad. 1. All are not sons, because they are the seed of Abraham, that is those that be the sons of the flesh, are not therefore the sons of God: but those that be the sons of promise are accounted for seed. And so to prove that which before he had affirmed, to wit, hat all were not Israelites that came of Israel, he added these words. Not only this, but also when Rebecca had conceived of one, our father Isaak, while the children were not borne, while they had neither done good nor evil (that the purpose of God should bide according to election, not of works, but of the caller) it was said to her: The elder shall serve the younger. Such as be not more than blind, may easily perceive, that the Apole looketh to an other end, then to worldly dignity. For his purpose was not in that place to dispute and reason who should be rich in this world and who should be poor, who should be lords temporal, and who shoul● be servants, but his purpose and m●nd was to declare t● whom did that benediction promised unto Abraham appertain, and to whom it did not appertain. So that the holy Ghost speaking by saint Paul is a commentary of the words spoken to Rebecca. And I doubt not, but so she did understand them. Rom. 9 To wit, that that promise which appeared to have been common with all the seed of Isaak (of whom it was spoken) In Isaak shall thy seed be called, was now restrained and made proper to one head, and to the people descending of him, that is to jacob, who after obtained the name of Israel. So that both the peoples neither were reputed, neither yet in very deed were the Church and chosen people of God, but the one was chosen and the other was refused. The one by grace, and of the caller was honoured with the name and privilege of his church, The other was cast out as strangers, upon the one remained the benediction, of the which the other was deprived. In this manner, I say did both Isaak, Rebecca, yea jacob, and Esau in process of time understand this oracle of God. But yet because this former place of the Apostle is by many evil understand, How S. Paul applieth the words of Moses. and by some maliciously wrested from the simple meaning of the holy Ghost: in as few and plain words as I can, I purpose to declare how aptly and properly the Apostle useth the testimony and words of Moses. Christ being preached to the jews who were reputed the chosen people of God, to whom, Gene. 25. and for whose comfort and deliverance the Messiah was especially promised: The most part of the jews remained unfaithful, refused the Saviour, who was sent, blasphemed him, and cruelly did persecute him and his members. This could not be without a great offence and slander to many thousands both of the jews and gentiles. The jews puffed up with pride because they were the peculiar people, because to them were given the law, promesses, and oracles, did brag and boast, that God could not reject them, except ●hat he should be found a liar. For to Abraham and to his seed had he made a promise. And the gentiles might be troubled with the like cogitations: for they might think, if God shall refuse his own people which so many years, he tenderly had nourished, what stability can we look for, though we should receive this Christ preached. Against both these sorts of men most valiantly fighteth the Apostle, and most aptly allegeth the scriptures to the confutatipn of the one and comfort of the other. First against the jew he reasoneth, that albeit they be Israelites after the flesh, yet it may be, that they be not the very israelites of God, neither yet is God indebted unto them, though they be descended of Abraham. The reason is, that God made no promise to the hole sede of Abraham, but to a part of it, to Isaak. Promise inade to Isaak. And if they should say: but we are of Isaak, he granting that, doth nevertheless prove, that God doth not choose the hole sede of Isaak, but in the mother's womb (as said is) by his own decree, he made the difference. And if further they should reply, o but we are of jacob, he than cometh to the proof of his first proposition, affirming, that albeit they were of jacob, yet did it not thereof follow that they were all the elect people of God. for what prerogative (would he say) can jacob, have above his father Isaak, or what can Isaak have above Abraham? Abraham who many years faithfully obeyed God, could not obtain that all his posterity (no not Ishmael for whom he prayed) should be reckoned to be his seed: Neither could Isaak obtain the same: but God appointed and did chose whom it pleased him. And shall jacob have greater prerogative than had they both? shall he that of grace was preferred to his brother, when neither the one had done good, neither the other had done evil, give that privilege to all his posterity, that without exception they shallbe the chosen people of God? No (will the Apostle conclude) but God no● after the revelation of his dear Son Christ jesus doth make the same difference in the posterity of ●acob, that sometimes he made in the sede of Abraham and Isaak. That is: he chooseth whom it pleaseth him, and rejecteth also such as in whom he hath no pleasure, and that not only amongst the jews, Vessels of mercy prepared unto glory. but also amongst the gentiles and that to make the riches of his glory known towards the vessels of mercy which he had prepared unto glory: whom he hath called, even us not only of the jews but also of the gentiles (as the Prophet Osee saith) and so to the end of the chapter he establisheth the faith of the gentiles, and comforteth them affirming, that their vocation and election was fore spoken by Moses and the Prophets, and therefore that it was not a thing that came by chance, but was appointed in the eternal counsel of God, and therefore in his conclusion, he assureth them, that such as believe in Christ jesus, shall never be confounded. This simply, but truly (I doubt not) have I explained the mind of the Apostie in the former place, which is: God's election dependeth not upon man. That god's election dependeth not upon man upon his will, purpose, pleasure, or dignity, but as it is free proceeding from grace, so is it stable in god● immutable counsel, and is revealed to gods elect, at such time as he knoweth most expedient. But because that of this we must after speak more, now we recurne to our former purpose. From the beginning we hear, that God maketh a difference: first by that general division, separating and setting apart the seed of the woman from the serpent's seed. After calling Abraham (neglecting as it were, the rest of the whole world) in Abrahames sede he maketh plain difference, secluding Ishmael, that he should not be heir with Isaak: But most especially in the womb of Rebecca, making the difference betwixt the two children and their posterity. Which difference did continue even to the days of Christ jesus, in such ●irmitie, and stableness, that neither could the sins of the Patriarches, the subtle cruelly of Pharaoh, the inobedience and grudging of the people, their apostasy and defection from God by manifest idolatry, nor finally their long bondage and captivity, altar or change this immutable counsel of God: that the elder should serve the younger, that the Messiah should con of the tribe of juda, & that of the loins of David should spring forth one to fit upon his seat for ever. And this difference which God by his own voice did establish before the coming of his dear Son Christ jesus did the same Christ jesus our master (appearing in flesh) ratify and confirm. For he plainly affirmeth, that he was not sent but to the lost snepe of Israel and that it was not good to take the bread of the children and give it to dogs. By which two sentences he maketh an express difference bet●ext the sheep and ●he goats, and betwixt the children and the dogs. He feareth not to say to the faces of those that boasted themselves to be the sons of Abraham, ye are not of God for, if ye were of God, john. 8. ye should love me, but ye are of your father the devil and his desires ye will obey. As this sentence is fearful, so may it appear very bold. For they might have obcted as they did: are we not his creatures, created to his own image, are we not the seed of Abraham? Do we not bear the figure of circoncision? are we not collected in Jerusalem, and do we not frequent the temple? yes verily, but none of all these things made them to be of God, in such sort as Christ denied them to be of him. For all these things may the reprobat have common with the elect. But Christ denied them to be of God, that is, to be the sons and wessels of his mercy elected in his eternal counsel, borne of him by the spirit of regeneration, by the which their stubborn blindness being removed, and they made obedient, durst be bold to call him Father. In this sense Christ denieth them to be of God. If any think that their wickedness and wilful refusal of grace offered was the cause that they were not of God, as I neither excuse their manifest rebellion, neither yet deny it to be a most just cause of their condemnation, so utterly deny I that their perse● sins were the only or the chief cause of their reprobation. For Christ himself feareth not to assign an other cause: Saing, therefore ye do not hear, because ye are not of God. Why the jews believed not in Christ. If they had heard, that is, received and believed Christ jesus and his doctrine, their sins had been purged and their blindness removed. But him could they not receive. And why because they are not of God. But to the objection, that the fore knowledge of good works, or of rebellion to come, should be the cause why God doth elect, or reject, we shal● (God willing) af●er answer. Now only I mind to follow that which I have purposed, which is that Christ jesus himself maketh a plain and manifest difference betwixt one sort of men and an other. How often doth he affirm that, his sheep do hear his voice, that he knoweth ●hem, and that they know him, that it hath pleased the Father to give the kingdom to the little flock. That many are called and few chosen. That some there be whom Christ jesus never knew, no not enen when they wrought greatest miracles. In all these and many places more it is evident, Christ maketh a diff●rērence of one sort from an other. that Christ maketh difference betwixt one and an other. but one place most notable all others I will shortly touch, and put end to this matter. Christ jesus in that his most solemn and most comfortable prayer (after other things) sa●eth, I have manifested they name to the men whom thou hast given to me of the world. They were thine, and thou hast given them unto me, and they have kept thy word. And shortly after: I pray for them, I pray not for the world, but for them whom tho● hast given unto me: Because they are thine. john. 17. If in the hole scriptures there were no more places to prove that in the Eternal counsel of God there is a difference of one sort of men from an other, this only one were sufficient. For first he maketh mention of men given unto him by the Father, who were (as he before affirmed) chosen out of the world, and why were they given unto Christ? he answereth, because they were the fathers. And how they appertained to God more than others, is before said. He further declareth what he had done vuto them, What Christ did for his. what they also had done. And what he did and would do to the end for them, he had opened unto them the name (that is the mercy goodness, constant truth and perfect justice) of his heavenly father, which doctrine they had received and kept, as they that were the ground appointed to bring furrh frui● in abundance. He did pray for them, that they should be sanctified and confirmed in the verity. The virtue of which prayer is perpetual and at all times obtaineth mercy in the presence of his father's throne for his elect. And lest that any doubt should remain as that these graces were common to all the world, in plain and express words he affirmeth, Christ prayed not for the world that he prayed not for the world but for those [saith he] whom thou hast given unto me. If any deny a plane difference here to be made betwixt one sort of men and an other, I will pray to God to open his Eyes, that he (if gods good pleasure be) may see the light that so brightly shineth. Other places for this present I omit: For of these precedents I suppose it be evident, that in the eternal counsel of God there was a difference of mankind even before the creation, which by his own voice is most plainly declared to us in tyme. Now to that objection which Pighius that pestilent and perverse Papist (and you all after him) doth make. To wit, that God did predestinate according to the works, and faith which he foresaw to be in man. An answer to the papistical and pestilent objection of Pighius and others his like. I might object to the contrary that if Predestination proceedeth from god's purpose and will (as the Apostle affirmeth it doth) that then the purpose and will of God being eternal, can not be moved by our works, or faith which be temporal. And that if the purpose of God be stable and sure, that then can not our works being unsure, be the cause thereof. But to avoid prolixity and tediousness, I will by plain scriptures prove, that of free grace did God elect, that of mere mercy doth he call and of his only goodness without all respect had to our dignity (as to be any cause first moving him) doth he perform the work of our salvation. And for the proof of the same, let us take Abraham and his posterity for example. Plain it is, that he and his seed were preferred to all the nations of the earth, the benediction was established to spring from them, the promise of the land of Canaan was made unto them, and so were they extolled to the honour and dignity of gods peculiar people. But let us consider what either faith or obedience God found in them which might have moved him thus to prefer them to other nation's. Let us hear Moses. The Lord they God (saith he) hath chosen thee, Deut. 7. that thou shouldest be a peculiar people to him above all the peoples which are upon the face of the earth: God hath not so vehemently loved you and chosen you because you are more in number then other nations (seeing ye are fewar then all other people) but because he hath loved you, and would keep the oath which he made to your fathers. And after it followeth: Say not in thy heart, my power, my strength, and my hand have prepared this abundance to me, and think not in thy heart, Deut. 9 it is for my justice, that the Lord hath brought me into this land. Of these places it is plain, that Moses leaveth no cause neither of god's election, neither yet of performance of his promise in man, but establisheth it altogether upon gods free love and good pleasure. The same did josua in that his last and most vehement exhortation to his people a little before his death, joshua. 24. in which plainly he affirmeth, that Abraham and his father were idolaters before they were called by God, which place Ezechiel the Prophet most evidently declareth rebuking the unthankful defection of the jews from God, who of mercy had given them life, honour, and dignity, they of all others being the most unworthy. For the saith: Thus saith the Lord God to jerusalem: Ezec. 16 Thy habitation and they kindred is of Canaan thy father was an amorrhean, and thy mother an Hittite. and in thy nativity when thou wast born thy navel was not cut, thou was no● washed wi●h water, to soften thee, thou was not salted with salt, neither yet was thou swaddled in clouts. By the which the Prophet signifieth that all was imperfect, all was filthy all was corrupt and stinking as touching their nature. he proceedeth: none ●ie pitied the to do, any of these unto thee, for to have compassion upon thee: but thou wast cast out in the open field to the contempt of thy person in the day that thou wast borne. And when I passed by the I saw the polluted in thine own blood, and I said unto the when thou wast in thy blood (that is in thy filthy sins thou shalt live. And this he repeateth, to the end, that he may beat it more deeply in their minds. I saith the Lord) said unto the being in thy blood thou shalt live, and so he proceedeth, declaring, how that God did multiply them, did give unto them beauty strength honour and dignity. These three places do plainly witness what perfection God did find in this people whom thus he did prefer to all others. And what obedience did they render unto him after the vocation of Abraham, the hole Histories do witness. for perfection and obedience was not found in Abraham himself, yea neither in Moses nor in Aaron, but contrary wise, the inobedience of all we find noted, to the same end that Moses hath before spoken, to wit, that none shall boast that either justice proceeding or following was the cause why God did choose and elect that people. For how shall God choose for that, which the holy Ghost plainly denieth to be in any man descending of the corrupt seed of Adam. For Isaiah plainly doth affirm, that all our justice, is as a cloth most polluted and spotted: If our justice be polluted as the Prophet, affirmeth it to be, and God did predestinate us for our justice, what followeth, God did not for our works predestinate us. but that God did predestinate us for that, which was filthy and imperfect: But God forbidden that such cogitations should take place in our hearts. God did choose us in his eternal purpose for his own glory, to be manifested in us, and that he did in Christ jesus in whom only is our full perfection (as before we have said). But let us yet hear some testimonies of the new testament. saint Paul to his disciple Timothy saith. 2. Ti. 1. Be not ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, neither be thou ashamed of me who am his prisoner but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the Euamgile, according to the power of God, who hath made us safe and hath called us with an holy vocation, not according to our works but according to his purpose and free grace, which was given to us by Christ jesus, before all times, but now is made patent by the appearing of our Saviour jesus Christ. Here plain it is, that neither are we called, neither yet saved by works, much les can we be predestinate for them, or in respect of them. True it is, that God hath prepared good works tha● we should walk in them: but like true it is, that first must the tree be good, before it bring forth good fruit: and good can never the tree be, except that the hand of the gardener have planted it. To use herein the plain words of saint Paul, he witnesseth that we are elected in Christ, to the end that we should be holy and without blemish. Now seeing that good works spring forth of election how can any man be so foolish as to affirm, that they are the cause of the same. Can the stream of water flowing from the fountain, be the cause of the original spring? Question. I think no man will so hold nor affirm: even so it is in this matter: for faith, and a godly life that ensueth our vocation, are the fruits proceeding from our election but are not to the causes of the same. And therefore the Apostle, to beat down all pride, asketh what haste thou ● man which thou hast not received? 1. Cor. 4. And if thou hast received it, why gloriest thou, as though thou hadst not received it? The Apostle in that place speaketh not of one or two graces, but what so ever is necessary to salvation, that he affirmeth to be received, and that of free grace, as he yet more plainly doth witness saying. Of grace are ye saved, by faith, and that, not of your selves, it is the gift of God, and not of works, lest any should glory. Now if man hath nothing but that which he receiveth of grace, of free gift, of favour, and mercy, what odious pride, and horrible unthankfulness is this, that man shall imagine, that for his faith and for his works God did elect and predestinate him to that dignity? even as if two or three beggars chosen from the number of many were of the liberal mercy of a Prince promoted to honour, should after brag and boast, that their good service was the cause that the Prince did choose them, Should not every wise man mock their vanity, yea might not the Prince justly deprive them for their arrogant unthankfulness? Might not the Prince have left them in their wretched estate? And what then should have become of their service? Is it not even so with man lost in Adam? (whose fall in god's prescience and purpose was before his creation) of which mass or lump God of his own free grace did choose and predestinate vessels of his mercy prepared unto glory, that they should be holy (as before is said) shall these them that find mercy to work good words, boast, as though works were the cause thereof? God forbid. For if the posterity of Abraham did not obtain the inheritance of the land of Canaan for any justice that was in them? yea if God did not choose them neither to the temporal nor eternal felicity, but of love and free grace only, as Moses doth witness, how shall we think, that the Eternal inheritance, or gods election to the joy and life everlasting, dependeth upon any quality within us. Wonder it is, that the Apostle saint Paul entreating this matter of gods free election, was ignorant of this cause, if it be sufficient. For by that means in few words he might have put silence to many dogs which then (as men do now) barked against this doctrine. For if he had said: God hath chosen afore all times to the participation of life a certain number, because he foresaw that they should be faithful obedient to his commandments and holy in conversation: and upon the other part he hath rejected and reprobate others, because he foresaw that they should be unfaithful, disobedient, and unclean of life, this I say (if those causes had been sufficient) had been a sensible manner of doctrine: But the Apostle allegeth no such reason but first beateth down the pride of man (as before we have touched) and there after bursteth forth in this exclamation. O the hieght of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God, how incomprehensible are his judgements, and how unsear cheable are his ways? This exclamation (I say) had been vain, if either works or faith foreseen had been the cause of god's election. S. Augustin doth mock the sharp sight of men, that in his days begun to see more deeply than did the holy Ghost, speaking in the Apostle. And we fear not to affirm, that the men which this day do attribute election or predestination to any virtue, or quality within man, do hold & defend (to their great danger) that which none induced with the Spirit of God hath left to us written within the holy scriptures, either yet that any of the choose shall confess in their greatest gloric. Let the hole Scriptures be red and diligently marked, and no sentence (rightly understand) shallbe found, that affirmeth God to have chosen us in respect of our works, or because he foresay, that we should be faithful, holy and just. But to the contrary many places shall we find (yea even so many as entreat of that matter) that plainly affirm, that we that we are freely chosen according to the purpose of his good will, and that in Christ jesus. And what shall be the confession of the hole body assembled when they shall receive the promised glory, is expressed in these words of the 24 elders, Apoca. 4. & 5. who casting their crowns before him that sitteth upon the throne, do say. Worthy art thou (o Lord and our God) to take honour and glory and power. For thou hast created all things, and by thy will they are and were created. And after they fall before the lamb and sing a new song saying: Worthy art thou to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast killed, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood, and hast made us to our God kings and priests and we shall reign upon the earth. No mention is here made of any worthiness of man: the creation is given to God, and that all things are in that perfect state which them the chosen shall possess, is attributed to his will. The death of the lamb is assigned to be the cause of the redemption, yea of that great dignity to which they are promoted. I am fully persuaded, that if any cause of god's election, and of the fruit proceeding of the same, were or could be in man, that the holy Ghost, who is author of all justice, would not have defrauded man of any thing which of right did appertain unto him. But seeing that in no place the holy Ghost doth attribute any part of man's salvation to his own merits or worthiness, I fear not to affirm, that this pestilent opinion is the instigation of sathan, labouring by all means to obscure the glory of Christ jesus and to retain man in bondage, whom he infected with that first venom which he made him to drink, Saing, ye shallbe as gods. Thus far with such plain simplicity (as it pleased God to minister unto me for the time) have proved, A brief rehearsal what is before sufficiently proved. that gods election is Eternal, that it is stable, that he hath made a difference, betwixt one sort of men, and an other, which difference although it came to know ledge of man in time, yet was it in gods purpose and counsel before all time no les than his creation was. And last that gods election dependeth neither upon our works nor upon our faith, but proceedeth from his Eternal wisdom, mercy, and goodness: and therefore is it immutable and constant. Now shortly will I go through (if God permi me) the reasons of your book, Nothing upon the one part, the imperfections of the same, and upon the other, your ignorance, or else malice in corrupting the scriptures. THE ADERARIE. To prove this similitude good and to show how much his love towards his children exceedeth the love of all creatures towards their births he saith: The fift section. Can a woman forget the child of her womb, and not pity the same whom she hath borne? And though she do forget it, Isaia. 45. yet I will not forget the. Here he speaketh not only to the elect (as some say) but also to them which did for sake and despise him as there. Isaia. 30. Alas for these disobedient children (saith the Lord) that they will take counsel without me. Here he calleth the wicked which heap sin upon sin▪ and were disobedient, his chiidrens. Matt. 7. Christ saith, If ye when ye are evil can give your children good gifts, how mmch more your heavenly father? After the same manner may I reason with you (careless by necessity) if none of you though the be evil, would beget a child to misery how much les would God which is all good beget and create man his own image to perpetual pains? Here we may see how much this noghtie opinion is contrary to nature and to reason. and that it is contrary to the word, God willing I will prove. If God hath ordained the most part of the world to be damned, then were his wrath greater than his mercy. But the scripture witnesseth that his mercy is over all his works, Psal. 144 and that God is slow unto wrath and ready unto mercy, so that his wrath is extended only to the third and fourth generation, but his mercy to the thousand generation wherefore thus (saith he): Esaia. 54 A little while I have forsaken thee, but with great mercifulness shall I take thee up unto me. Wh●n I was angry I hide my face from the for a little season but through everlasting mercy have I pardoned thee. And David saith, Psal. 29. his wrath endureth but the twinkling of an, eye and his pleasure is in life. heaviness may well endure for a night, But joy cometh in the morning. And so Moses called him a merciful and gracious God, long suffering, and keeping mercy in store for thousands. By these scriptures and many more, it is evident, that gods mercy is greater than his wrath, contrary to their sainges. ANSWER. How blasphemous be your similitudes, your selue may consider, if malice have not utterly blinded you, for I have all ready proved that God is not bound to the laws and bounds of nature, and how shamefully ye do abuse the scriptures which ye allege, few words shall declare. Ye deny, that God doth speak here to his elect in the place of isaiah the Prophet, Isaiah. 49 but to all men in general: and even to those that had forsaken him, as ye would seem to prove by the words of the same Prophet spoken ●efore in his thirty chapter. Isaiah. 30 First (I say) that those two places do no more agree, then do those words of Christ spoken after his resurrection: Go to my brethren and tell them: I pass up to my father, and unto your father, and unto my God and unto your God, and those which he spoke before his death, against Capernaum, Bethsaida, and Corosaim, or unto jerusalem against whom he pronounced woe and malediction, because they did not know the time of their visitation. For in the former place God speaketh to Zion which long had been waist and to his people, which long had been oppressed. And to the end that the reader may better understand how deceitfully ye withdraw and steal the words which explain the hole matter, I will bring forth the words of the Prophet. Is●ia. 49 Rejoice (saith he) ô heavens: and rejoice thou earth ô you mountanes breast you forth in gladness, for the eternal hath comforted his people and shall have mercy upon his poor ones. Zion hath said, the Lord hath left me and my Lord hath forgotten me, May a woman forget her child that she shall not have compassion upon the son of her bosom, but let it be that they forget (nevertheless I shall not forget thee, for lo in these my two hands have I engrafted thee, and thy walls are for ever before me. If these comfortable words were spoken in general to all men (as ye affirm) let indifferent men judge: If all men were Zion, that long had lain desolate, if all were his people that long had been oppressed in the captivity of Babylon: If all did so complain, that they thought God to have forgotten his league and promise, which of mercy he made with them: And finally, if all have this promise, that their deliverance is joined with gods infinite power, them is your application, to be approved, but if God did make a plain difference betwixt Israel and all nations in the earth, if he had chosen his habitation in Zion, and if he will keep promise with the afflicted for his own names sake, be they never so unworthy, then are ye to bold to give the honour and prerogative of the children and heirs, to strangers and bastards. The words which ye allege of the thirty chapter make nothing for your purpose: for albeit he speaketh to those that were inobedient, yea that were treasonable traitors, yet had they the name, the title, yea the honour and dignity of god's people, and among them, were some of gods chosen children: for whose comfort (after long affliction sustained in Babylon) were those other words spoken And so except that ye be able to prove that the people of Israel and the city of jerusalem had no greater prerogative even in the time of their greatest blindness and unthankfulness (before the coming of Christ jesus in the flesh) then had other nations, ye conclude nothing. But yet wonder it is, that ye can make no difference betwixt the times, in which the one, words and the other were spoken. The woe was pronounced (you say alas which the text hath not) against them, what time they had declined from God, when they took counsel of themselves when they could not abide the admonitions of the Prophets: but the comfortable promise of deliverance was made, after that vengeance was powered forth upon the proud contemners, and after that the hole body was sore tormented by great oppression and long impresonement. Do ye not think that their might be great alteration in that people within the space of an hundredth years? for so long was it betwixt the days of the Prophet and the days of their last captivity under Nabucadnezer, after which time also did this former promise of god's remembrance of them only take place. Might not the one ●e spoken of those which should be punished (yea let it be that they were the reprobate) and the other to the people of God, to whom by his own holiness he had promised deliverance? Do ye think that because the same Prophet speaketh both the sentences, that therefore they do appertain to one estate and condition of people? I have proved the contrary by Christ's plain words. For his mouth pronounced destruction against jerusalem, and yet sendeth he the joyful tidings of his resurrection to his disciples with that most singular comfort that God remained unto them both God, and father: and even so doth our Prophet Isaiah: for in the o●e place he speaketh to the obstinate contemners, but in the other place he speaketh to the afflicted children. Wey I beseech you the scriptures of God with greater reverence. The words of Christ ye likewies falsify. Matt. 7. for he speaketh not of any common love which he beareth to all men, but affirmeth, Luc. 11. that our heavenly Father giveth good things, or as Lucas affirmeth, giveth the holy Ghost to such as ask of him. Ye must prove first, that all ask in faith, and according to his will (which be the peculiar prerogatives of the children of God) before that Christ's words can serve for your general multitude, either yet that you shall thereof be able to prove that God loveth all men a like. Ye take your pleasure in reasoning with us, whom ye term Careless by necessity. I will not recompense raling with raling, but I pray God that thou (the writer of this book) show hereafter greater diligence in godliness, then of many days thou hast done where so ever thou hast haunted. We use not to subject God to our corrupt affections, but with reverence and fear we leave to his godly wisdom the ordering of his creatures, neither yet can you be able to prove, that we either by word or writing have affirmed, that the principal end of any man's creation was perpetual pain. But we affirm, as before we have declared, that God for himself and for the manifestation of his own glory hath created all things. But of this we must after more largely speak. The final conclusion which ye collect of nature, is that God hath created none to misery nor pain. The blasphemy of anabaptists. For that your master Castalio feareth not most blasphemously to affirm, saying, that if he hath so done, he is more cruel than any wolf. O heaven and earth revenge this blasphemy. That man which here suffereth misery and much clamitie, yea and that also shallbe adjudged to the fire inextinguible, is created of God, or (as you affirm) is the birth of God: I suppose yourselves will not deny. And that he suffereth all miseries; by gods just judgements, and by his will expressed in his word, the scripture bears record. For God saith to the woman, in sorrow and dolour shalt thou bear thy children. To the man: In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat thy bread, and also: cursed is the earth for thy sake. 〈◊〉 3. Which (and many more places) plainly witness, that God hath inflicted pain upon man whom he hath created. You answer: That did God for the sin of man, I confess: But yet is your foot fast in the snare. For after sin, man ceased not to be the creature, & (as ye will term him) the birth of God If then God; be subject to the law of nature (as before we have said) and now again repeat, that your vanity and ignorance may the more appear, so that he is bound to do the self same thing to his births, that nature moveth us to doto our children. I ask first why did God suffer man created to his own image to fall in to sin? assuredly no natural father will wittingly and willingly suffer his children to fall into apit or dungeon to destruction. And secondarily I ask, why did not God (who is omnipotent, having all wisdom and goodness) provide an other medicine for man, then by death to overcome so many miseries? Thirdly if God would that none should be borne to misery, why did he not clearly purge the nature of Adam? why did he not stay that venom and corruption in our first father, why did he permit it to infect all his posterity? There is no shift that here can serve you. For if you say, God was provoked by the sins of the posterity, which he did forese to be in them, so to do: I answer, that he foresaw nothing, which his eternal and infinite power might not have removed and remedied, if so had pleased his godly wisdom: for then as now, was he the God. who alone may do what so ever he will in heaven and in earth. And further I say, that the fountain being shut up, the flowing of sin by natural propagation should have ceased. To god's permission we shall after answer. To put end to his matter, if ye consider nothing else in the great variety of gods works but the only misery of the sufferer, and sin which (we deny not to be a cause of the same) ye have no better profited in the school of Christ, then had the disciples, when seeing him that was born blind, they demanded this question, Master (say they) who hath sinned, whether this man or his parents? that he should be born blind? No other cause did they see of his misery but sin. And to them it was strange that any man could sin so grievously before he was borne, that for the same he should be punished with perpetual blindness during his life. And that he should suffer such misery for the offences of his Parents, appeared to them to repugn to god's justice, and to that sentence which before he had pronounced by the Prophet Ezechiel affirming, that the son should not bear the iniquity of the father. But Christ jesus in correcting their error, giveth to you a profitable lesson if ye can receive it: affirming, that neither he, neither yet his Parents had sinned that so he should be borne, but that the glory of God should be manifested in him. If gods glory be declared and made manifest even by the miseries which some creatures sustain: Dare you therefore accuse God of cruelty? Consider your bold foolishness, and repent your blasphemies before that vengeance strike. After that ye have concluded as you think, our opinion to be naughty, by arguments drawn from nature, you make a bold promise to prove the same by plain scriptutes: And yet your first entrance is but by a reason not well grounded upon these scriptures which ye allege. Thus ye writ: If God hath ordained the most part of the world to perdition than were his wrath greater than his mercy, but the scripture witnesseth that his mercy is over all his creatures. Ergó (will ye conclude) He hath not created the most part of the world to perdition. To prove that god's mercy is greater than his wrath, ye bring forth the words of David. Psal. 30. & 45. Isaiah. 54. and of God himself proclaiming his own name unto Moses: for these words are not the words of Moses (as ye allege) but were spoken by God himself in the ears of Moses. To the Mayor I have answered before, that falsely ye burden us, that we affirm that God hath ordained the most part of the world to perdition: for we presume not to define what number God shall save, and how many he shall justly condemn, but with reverence we do refer judgement to him, who is the universal creator, whose goodness and wisdom is such that he can do nothing but wisely, and whose justice is so perfect, that his works are exempted from the judgement of all creatures. But the second part affirming that if God condemn more than he shall save, that then his wraith is greater than his mercy, is so irreverent, so bold, and blasphemous, that scarcely could I have thought, that the devil himself could have imagined a more manifest blasphemy. Who hath given the balance into thy hands? (I speak to the most blasphemous writer) to ponder and weigh gods mercy, and wraith after thy corrupt judgement? if thou claimest the help of these former scriptures they prove no more that which thou pretendest, then if thou shouldest affirm that God shall save the devil, because his mercy is above all his creatures. We do not deny but that the most wicked men are participant of god's mercy in temporal felicity (yea and that far above his chosen children) that he maketh his son to shine upon the good and bad, that with long suffering he calleth them to repentance and delaieth their most just condemnation. But what wilt thou hereof conclude, that God hath ordained more to salvation, them to perdition? or else is his wraith greater than his mercy? Blasphemous mouth, who hath taught the to appoint a law to God? The day shall come (if speedily thou repent not) that thou shalt feel what punishment is due to such as go about to bring the eternal God and his incomprehensible judgements under the thraldom of their corrupt reason. But leaving thee, I return to those, whom gladly I would instruct, and to them I say: that the words of David and of Isaiah do speak of that rich and inestimable mercy, which God layeth up in store for his chosen children: to whom although God sometimes show himself severe and angry, yet endureth that but for a short, space, but his mercy is everlasting, and his goodness infinite, by the which he marrieth his chosen children to himself for ever, and whether that these words be only spoken to the elect, or else that they be generally spoken to all, let the holy Ghost decide the controversy. Psal. 145 After that David hath affirmed that God is liberal merciful, patiented and of great gentleness, and also that he is good to all, and that his mercy is over all his works, that the eyes of all creatures look upon him, and that he is just in all his works: by which sentences he praiseth the goodness, the mercy, and the providence of God in the regiment & government of his universal creation, which goodness and mercy do so abound, that the innumerable iniquities of mankind and his detestable ingratitude can not utterly hinder the same from the creatures. After these common mercies (I say) whereof the reprobate are often partakers, he openeth the treasure of his rich mercies which are kept in Christ jesus for his elect: Saing, the Lord is nigh to all that upon him, to all that call upon him in verity: he doth the will of those that fear him, and he heareth their cry, and saveth, them. The Lord keepeth all those that love him, but he destroyeth all the wicked. Note the plain difference. such as willingly delight not in blindness, may clearly see, that the holy Ghost maketh a plain difference betwixt the graces and mercies which be common to all, and that sovereign mercy which is immutably reserved to the chosen children, and further that the Lord himself shall destroy the wicked, albeit his mercy be over all his works. And so that mercy by the which God pronounceth to gather his Church is everlasting, and is not condmon to the reprobate, but is only proper to the flock of Christ jesus. The words of God spoken unto Moses do no more serve your purpose then do the other. Exod. 20. For God in his law expressedly doth witness to whom it is that he will show mercy to thousands, to wit to those that love him, and keep his commandments, and upon whom will he prosecute the iniquity unto the third and fourth generation upon those (saith he) that hate me. If here of ye conclude that his mercy towards all is greater than his wraith ye conclude amiss. For ye confound those whom God hath separated and divided, he promiseth mercy to the thousand generation of those that love him and threateneth to punish the iniquity of the fathers to the third and fourth generation upon those that hate him. Hereof justly ye can no further conclude, but that the mercy of God is greater towards those that love him, than his wraith against those that hate him. And so far will we confess with you. but if you abide in your error, concluding as you plainly do in this your book, that the wrath of God must be greater than his mercy except that he save more than shall be condemned (as some of your sects hath lately affirmed) we fear not to affirm that your blasphemy is intolerable. Or if you think (as some allege upon Origene that) because god's mercy is infinite and extendeth unto all his works, that therefore the reprobate can not but once obtain mercy. The plain scripture convicteth you. For it affirmeth, that the wraith of God abideth upon the unfaithful, that their fire shall not be quenched, and that their worm shall not die. If ye shall understand that the elect hath nothing which they receive not of mercy, and that the punishment of the reprobate is most justly deserved, Howgods mercy is greater than his wrath. you shall not measure gods mercy and his wraith by the multitude nor by the number, but ye ought to consider that where none is worthy of gods mercies by their own merits, yet hath it continued from the beginning and shall continued unto the end, ever extending the self to gods children being in misery. and so this mercy must far surmount all wraith and judgement: for where the wraith of God once kindled against sin ought to have consumed and devoured all, mercy prevaleth, and delivereth those that justly might have been condemned. And in this sense (say we) that god's mercy far surmounteth his judgements, which interpretation if you admit not, we will send you to reason with God, and to impugn the same, if you be able by manifest scriptures. Now to the rest. THE ADVERSARY. Of all sorts and Sects of men, The six te section I have judged them to be most abhorred which are called Athei that is to say, such as deny that there is any God. But now me think these careless men are much more to be abhorred, my reason is because they be more injurious to God than the (Athey) for he is les injurious to a man that believeth that he is not, than they he which calleth him a cruel man a tyrant, and an unjust person, so are they les injurious to God which believe that he is not, than they which say he is unmerciful, cruel, and an oppressor. Now what greater cruelty, tyranny, and oppression can be, then to create the most part of the world to everlasting damnation, so that by no manner of mean they can escaip, and avoid the cruel decree and sentence against them. Seeing the Philosopher Plato judged them unworthy to live, and to be suffered in any common wealth which spoke evil of God, what ought our judgements to be of such men which have so wicked and opinion of God? what so ever our judgement be of them, and what so ever their deserving be, let us labour rather to win them then to lose them. But forasmuch as he which toucheth pitch is in danger to be defiled there with. therefore ought we to walk warily with such men, that we be not defiled and infected of them. Specially seeing that now a days this horrible doctrine doth fret even as the disease of a canker which infect from one member to an other until it hath occupied the hole body without it be cut away, even so this error hath already infected from one to an other a great number. The lord grant them the true meaning and understanding of his word, whereby they may be healed, and the sickness cut of, the member being saved. ANSWER. Because that in all this your long discourse, To the 1. ye more show your malice (which unjustly against us ye have conceived) then that either ye oppugn our belief, either yet promote your false opinion. I will not spend the time to recompense your despite. Only this I will offer in the name of all may brethren, To the 2. 3. 4. & 5. that if you be able in presence of a lawful judge and magistrate evidently to convict us, that either we speak evil of God, either yet that by our writings, preaching or reasoning, it justly can be proved that our opinion is evil, of his eternal majesty, power, wisdom, and goodness, that then we refuse not to suffer the same punishment which you by the authority of Plato judge us worthy of. Yea we further offer ourselves willingly to underlie the very death which God by his law hath appointed to all blasphemers provided that you refuse not to underlie the same penalty, Deut. 19 if falsely ye accuse us. What is your studies to win us, To the 6. and whether our doctrine be horrible error or not, I do not now dispute. Thus you reason. THE ADVERSARY. God created man a very good thing, The seventh section. and dare you say that God ordained a very good thing to destruction? Then God delighteth in the destruction of that which is very good. Man at his creation was a just and innocent creature▪ for afore the transgression there was no evil neither in Adam nor in us, and think you that God ordained his just and innocent creatures to condemnation? what greater tyranny and unrighteousness can the most wicked man in the world, yea the devil himself do, then to condemn the innocent and just person? Hereby may we see that these careless man by more abominable than the Athei, which believe there is no God. But these affirm God to be as bad as the devil yea and worse: for asmuch as the devil can only tempt a man to death, but he can compel none to fall unto condemnation, but God may not only tempt, but also compel ●y his eternal decree the most part of the world to damnation. And hath so done (as they say)▪ so that of necessity and only because it was his pleasure and will: then must God be worse than the devil. For the devil only tempted men to fall, but God compelleth them to fall by his immutable decree. Oh horrible blasphemy. ANSWER. Because that before plainly and simply I have declared our judgement of gods eternal election, and most just reprobation in all these your despiteful arguments, I will only show your malice, To the 1. ● & 3. ignorance, and proud vanity. This is your argument, God created man a very good thing therefore he did not ordain him to destruction. your reason is: for that is contrary to his justice, to ordain a good thing to destruction. I answer if ye be able to prove that man stood in the same goodness, perfection and innocenty (he and his posterity whom so hieghly ye praise) in the which he was first created, then will I confess your argument to be good. But if man (albeit he was created good) did yet willingly make himself evil how can it be contrary to the justice of God to appoint punishment for transgression, which he did not only foresee by an idle speculation, or yet suffer and permit against his omnipotent, will, but in his eternal counsel for the manifestation of his own glory had decreed the same. Against which, albeit ye cry horrible blasphemy till your brains drop out, yet have we Moses Exod. 9 Isaiah. 6. Solomon and Paul to absolve us from your cruel sentence. For they do affirm that God hath created all things for his own glory, and the wicked to the day of destruction, that he raised up Pharaoh that his power might be shown forth in him: that he blindeth the eyes and hardeneth the hearts of some, so that they can neither hear nor see that they may convert: That God hath prepared both vessels of mercy and vessels of wraith which places albit some of them seem not to appertain to the creation, yet if they be justly weighed it shall evidently appear that the hardness of men's hearts, Blindness and hardness of heart are effects reprobation. their blindness and stubborn malice are not only punishments of sin, but also are the effects of reprobation, like as faith, obedience, and other virtues be the free gifts of God given in Christ jesus to those whom he hath elected in him. But yet to your argument, which thus ye amplify: do ye think that God ordained his just and innocent creatures to damnation? what greater tyranny and unrighteousness can the most wicked man in the earth, yea the devil himself do? then to condemn a just and an innocent person. I answer (as before) that your argument is nought worth. For you conclude more than ye be able to prove of your two former propositions: which be those. God created man a very good thing. True it is, and God reprobated man and shall also condemn him whom he created good, I grant also. therefore he damned the good thing which he created, or that thing which is very good, I deny the conclusion. For before demnation there cometh a change in man, so that he of very good, became extreme evil, and so gods just judgements found nothing but that which is evil to condemn. You form your reason, as that God had so created man good, that he by no means after could be made evil, which last part is false, and so you are deceived. If ye cannot see just causes why God should make that thing very good which after should become exttreme evil, accuse your own blindness, and desire of God to repress in you that presumption and pride, which against the eternal Son of God you have conceived, Why God treated man good whom he ordained nevertheless to fall. and so your eyes shallbe illuminated and you shall se first that because the creator is infinitely good, that therefore it behoveth the creatures in their original creation to be good. And so I doubt not was the devil created good, but in the verity, he stood not. And secondarily that because the just judgements of God were no les to shine in the damnation of the reprobat: then his infinite mercy was to be praised in the vessels of honour, it behoved the one and the other to be innocent and good in their creation. For if the original had been evil, God justly could not have after damned that which he had made no better. but so we must confess that it was good that (yet willingly corrupting the self) man made away to the most just execution of gods eternal counsel. And last that the eternal purpose of God might in time be notified unto man, which was that God would bestow greater liberality, show greater love and mercy in the redemption of man justly damned then that he did in his creation. Of nothing he did create him (for his corporal substance was made of the dust (which sometimes was not) to his own image and similitude, to him he gave the dominion of all creatures, these were documents of a true love. But if they be compared with that love, which in Christ jesus we receive and that of free grace, they are no thing. For what is the dominion of earthly creatures in respect, that we shall reign with Christ jesus for ever? what were the pleasures and fruits of Paradise in comparison of those heavenly joys which saint Paul affirmeth can not enter in to the heart of man? If man had stand perpetually in Adam, neither had the love of God so wondrously been notified unto us, neither yet had place been granted to his free grace and mercy, which we receive in Christ jesus. For mercy properly hath respect to misery. But the chief comfort of gods children is, that as they fell in Adam, so are they new transferred in an other that is in Christ jesus, to whom they are given, and who (as before we have proved) hath so received them from the hand of his Father that he shall give lief everlasting to so many as the Father hath given him. If ye (I say) can not admit these reasons, why it behoved man to be created good, and yet after to fall in to sin and merserie, accuse yourselves, storm not against God. for he will not be subject to your reason & judgements: your horrible blasphemies against God, and your despiteful raling against us at this time I will omit. and how impudently ye leap from the purpose of god's reprobation to the execution of his judgement, shallbe spoken, in weighing this your reason which thus followeth. THE ADVERSARY. The scripture witnesseth that we did fall in Adam. The eight section. for damnation came of one sin unto condemnation: then did we all stand afore in Adam, for none falleth but he that standeth. If we did all stand than were we all predestinate to lief for as our fall here is to damnation and death, so is our standing unto salvation and lief. And to confirm this we have many testimonies in the word, which prove us to be elected chosen, and predestinate to lief afore the fall, but none that prove any man to be abjected, cast away, damned, and reprobate afore sin by which death entered into the world. Paul to the Ephesians saith. Ephes. 1. God did choose us in Christ before the foundations of the world were laid, and ordained us before through him to be heirs unto himself, and were thereunto predestinate. I pray you show me any testimony of the scripture which so manifestly proveth that God hath reprobate any before the foundations of the world. God hath no respect of persons. Psal. 49. For he calleth the world from the rising up of the son unto the going down of the same. job. 34. he made both small and great and careth for both a like for they be all the work of his hands. 4. Esdr. 8 And Esdras saith, it was not gods will that man should come to nought. but he prepared lief for them. The holy Ghost saith that God hath not made death neither hath he pleasure in the destruction of the living. for he created all things that they might have their being, yea all the people of the earth hath he made that they should have health and their should be no destruction in them and that the kingdom of hell should not be upon earth. Sapient. 2 what can be more plainly and more directly spoken against this error? In an other place saith the holy Ghost: God created man to be undestroyed: and again God ordained man that he should order the world according to equity and righteousness, Sapien. 9 and execute judgement with a true heart, doth God ordain man to rule the world according to righteousness whom he reprobated? Do men gather grapes (as Christ saith) of thorns and figs of thistles? even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruits. But a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit, a good tree can not bring forth bad fruit, neither can a bad tre bring forth good fruit. Matth. 7. Either make the tre good, and the fruit good, Matth. 12 or else the tre evil and his fruit evil. Either grant man at his creation to be righteous and good, and then I think ye will abhor to say that God afore the foundations of the world did reprobate his good and righteous creature, or else grant him at his creation to be an evil and unrighteous creature. Can then righteous judgement come of such an unrighteous tree? further if man at his creation was an evil things than was he not the creature of God. For God saw all that he had made, and they were very good, if man at his creation or afore was reprobate, and ordained unto death, than was man guilty afore the transgression: for God damned none but such as be guilty. If he was guilty afore his transgression then was he a sinner being yet innocent and just. afore he ever consenteth or committed sin. And so consequently of this error, I may infer many no such absurdities as should offend any faithful man's ears. ANSWER. As no man of hole judgement did ever deny that in Adam we did fall, so I think you and your sect set a part there hath been none that ever did affirm that in Adam we were predestinate to lief everlasting. True it is that we stood in Adam, created in his loins, but I suppose that ye will not hold that the children had greater privilege than had the father. Adam did not so stand, but that he was subject to the law, the transgression where of made him debtor to death. To speak the matter more plainly, Adam did so stand that he might (and did) fall as the event declared. and were his children so elect in him that they could not fall: so ye appear to conclude. For thus ye reason: if we did all stand than were we all predestinate to lief, for as our fall here is to damnation and death, so is our standing unto salvation and lief. Assuredly these reasons appear marvelous, strange to me, and principally that which ye bring forth of falling and standing: for it hath in the self plain contradiction. for if we fell in Adam to death, how can we stand in him now unto lief. If you had said as that our fall was to damnation and death, so should our standing have been to salvation and lief, ye might have had some probability. For your error had only stand in this, The ground of the anabaptists error. that ye do not consider that Adam was not created to stand for ever in himself▪ and much les his posterity in him. But when ye say as our fall is to death, so is our standing unto lief, you plainly speak, what so ever ye think, that yet either in Adam, either in ourselves we both fall and stand. But this do we utterly abhor, for we fear not plainly to confess that we have no assurance either of standing either yet of lief but in Christ jesus alone in whom we be engrafted, and with out whom we can do nothing. An argument which proveth that in Adam we could not stand In few words to repeat the answer of your former objection, In Adam did no man stand otherwise than he did. But he did stand with condition to fall and that even to death: therefore in Adam did none stand to lief. The common sense of man will approve the first part of this my argument. for who can think that any descending of Adam by his means could have greater liberty than he him self had? And the event and that which followed declareth the verity of the second part. For not only upon Adam saith the Apostle came death. But even from him descended death unto all. How then could any stand in him to lief? Let reasonable men consider. To prove that all were predestinate and chosen in Adam before the foundations of the world were laid, Answer to the scriptures shamefully abused by the adversaries. ye bring forth the testimony of Paul written in the first chap. to the Ephesians, which we before have entreated, and therefore here I only will open your falsehood. Wonder it is that shame should be so far past you: that where the holy Ghost plainly affirmeth, that we were elected and; chosen in Christ jesus before; the foundations of the world were laid, that this election ye should affirm to be made in Adam. If you object that you specify not Adam: I answer that is all a like: for of your former arguments it easily may be espied whom ye understand. For when thus ye reason we did all stand in Adam, ergò we were all predestinate to lief, what is he that clearly may not perceive that your meaning is, that we were all predestinate to lief in Adam. For else you had said nothing to prove your own purpose. For we affirm that we were elected before the foundation of the world was laid. But the controversy standeth, in whom. We affirm and most constantly believe, that in Christ jesus the eternal Son of the eternal Father, were we elected before all times. This ye can not abide and therefore ye seek all means to obscure the glory of him to whom the Father hath given all power in heaven and in earth: sometimes ye say (as now I have declared) that this election was made in Adame: But while that this will not serve you, ye run to an other shift alleging that the Apostle speaketh here of a general election of the hole world, and a not of any certain election which should abid for ever, and so in shifting from one danger ye fall into another as after in examining of that your vain reason more evidently shall appear. Ye instantly require that we will show any testimony of the scripture that hath reprobate any before the foundations of the world. If it be the pleasure of God to give unto you the spirit of wisdom and of revelation by the knowledge of him self, that the eyes of your mind may be illuminated that ye may know what is the hope to the which he hath called you, and how rich is the glory of that inheritance, which he hath prepared for his saints, ye shall require no place more plain, nor more evident than the same, which most ignorantly, or else most maliciously ye do abuse, for if there be any difference betwixt the saints, the faithful, that be blessed with all spiritual benediction, betwixt those (I say) that were elected in Christ jesus before all times, that in time be called, and by the power of the holy spirit do give obedience to the caller, and so are made citizens with the saints and household of God, as they that are builded upon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles: if any difference (I say) be betwixt these former, and these in whom the prince of this world doth work all filthiness and rebellion, whom he holdeth captive at his pleasure, who can not repent their detestable lives, and therefore are reputed strangears from the common wealth of Israel. And further if ye will believe Christ jesus affirming and rejoicing that it pleased his Father to hide the secrets of his kingdom from the prudent and wife, and to reveal the same to little ones, Matt. 11. and that because it was his pleasure: I trust ye shall confess that those scriptures be plain enough to prove that as some were elected before the foundation of the world was laid, so likewies were there others reprobated, as the final end of both doth witness: But how ye wrestle against this argument we shall after hear: and how plainly I have proved some to be elected and others to be reprobated, read before and judge with indifferency. If ye will conclude that God hath no certain election, neither yet that he hath reprobated any, because that he hath no respect of persons, and because he calleth the world from the rising up of the son to the going down of the same, because he made both small and great, and careth (as ye falsely allege) for both a like, your affirmation may well be bold, but I think, that your probation shallbe slender. But first I must except against you, as against false witness. for you allege more upon Elihu than in the book of job The adversary wresteth the scripture in job. he affirmeth. For he saith not that God careth for all a like. But saith that his eyes are upon the ways of man, and that he doth see all his goings. And that neither you, neither any other shall have occasion to complain of me, that unjustly I accuse you, of falsifying the plain text, I will recite both the purpose and the words: job in vehemency of disputation against his three friends, who constantly did affirm that God provoked, by his sins, had powered forth those sodane and strange plagues upon him: job I say in refelling this their accusation, and in confuting their reasons, did enter into the secrets of gods inscrutable judgements further than it became any creature to do: and did seem to burden God with injustice in defending his own innocenty. At which reasons Elihu offended after that the other three were put to silence taking upon him to reprove job affirmeth that the wisdom, the power, the justice and the judgements of God were incomprehensible, that God could do nothing unjustly how that ever it appeared to man's judgement, and amongst other things he saith: wilt thou say unto a king, job. 34. thou art wicked, or unto princes, ye are ungodly. How much les to him that accepteth not the persons of Princes and regardeth not the rich more than the poor? For they be all the work of his hands? They shall die suddenly, and the people shallbe troubled at midnight, and they shall pass forth and take away the mighty without hand, for his eyes are upon the ways of man and he seeth all his doings. Thus have I noted partly that none shall think that these words may seem to favour your error, and partly that your untruth in wresting such places may more manifestly appear. Ignorance of the tongues may be some cause in you, but in some of you I can manifestly prove that malice blindeth knowledge, and compelleth you to speak and write against your understanding. God touch your hearts with true repentance and give you his holy spirit with greater reverence to entreat his scriptures. But now to the scriptures that ye allege (God say you) hath no respect of people. Act. 10. Ergo will ye conclude, he hath no election. Your conclusion is false, and my reason is, because that gods free election dependeth not upon the persons of men, but upon his own promise and good will▪ But to make this matter more sensible: I will make an argument directly against yours. An argument directly against the adversaries argument. God respecteth not the persons of men. But yet amongst men is found great diversity both in virtue and in vice. therefore there must be some cause from whence this diversity proceedeth. Of the first part I know ye doubt not, and the second part is confirmed by common experience and by evident scriptures. for how diverse be the inclinations of men, none can be ignorant, except such as do not observe the same. Such as attribute the cause of such diversity to the stars and to the influence Influence of the stars. of the Planets are more than vain: education Education. and up bringing doth somewhat bow nature in that case: but neither of both is the cause of such diversity: for how many have been nourished in virtue together, and yet have after fallen to most horrible vices, and in the same perished? And contrariwise how many have been wickedly brought up, and yet by grace attained to an holy conversation. If the cause of this diversity (I say) shall be inquired and sought, it shall not be found in nature. for thereby were and are we all borne the sons of wraith: if in education and up bringing, we see how often that faileth. The cause thereof them must be of necessity without man. To make the matter yet more plain by an example, Paul preached Christ jesus, to be the only Saviour of the world both amongst the jews and gentiles, to some his preaching was the savour of lief, and to others it was the savour of death. from whence cometh this diversity? from the obedience, will, and faith of the one, say you. and from the stubborn inobedience, and infidelity of the other: you say somewhat, but not all. for true it is that faith and an obedient will, is that which we call Causam propinquam, that is the next cause to our apprehension: but what is the cause that the will of one is obedient, and the will of the other stubborn, that the one doth believe and the other doth blaspheme: How so every do shift, The cause is not in nature of our faethfull obedience. the holy Ghost in many places plainly affirmeth the cause not to be in nature nor yet to proceed of man, nor of his free will, but to be the free grace of the caller, as Christ jesus doth witness: None can come unto me except my Father draw him: No man can see the kingdom of God except he be borne again, and that neither of blood neither of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. who toucheth and openeth the hearts of so many as he hath ordained to lief, to advert and believe the things that be truly preached: As those that be the sheep of Christ jesus, who hear his voice and know the same. These and many places more, do most plainly declare, What is the cause that some believe and some remain unfaithful. what is the cause that some believe and others believe not: to wit, that some are born of God, and some are left in nature, some are sheep, & some are goats. the hearts of some are touched and opened by the finger and Spirit of God, as it was said to Peter: flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto thee, but my Father which is in the heaven, and the hearts of others left in their own blindness and hardness. If ye demand how is it then, that God respecteth not the person of man? I answer if ye did understand a right what is meant by acceptation of persons, or what it is to respect persons ye should not doubt in this behalf. Acceptation of persons is when an unworthy person is preferred to a worthy, How God respecteth not people. either by corrupt affection of those that do prefer him, either yet for some quality or external beauty that appeareth in man. As if to the office of a king or of a bushope, should one be elected, that neither hath godliness, knowledge, wisdom, nor yet the spirit of government, because he is rich, noble of blood, far and lusty: and the persons having gifts much more excellent should be contemned: this is called acceptation of persons. 1. Sa. 16. As Samuel seeing Eliab and considering his beauty, and stature doth boldly pronounce in his own heart, assuredly before the Lord, this is his anointed. Such acceptation of persons is not with God. for neither looketh he to blood, riches, nobility, virtue, strength nor beauty temporal in his eternal election, but only to his own good will, and eternal purpose by the which he hath elected us in Christ jesus. If ye shall consider the same place deeply ye shall find that none within the hole scriptures of God more confuteth your error than it doth. For as God respecteth not the person That God hath not respect of persons most evidently confuteth the error of the adversaries of gods predestination. of man, so respecteth he nothing, that is or can be within man, as the chief cause of his election. For what can God foresee, consider or know to be in man that good is which floweth not from his free mercy and goodness, as it is written: we are not sufficient of ourselves to think any thing that good is but all our sufficiency is of God, who worketh in us both to will and perform. Then if all virtue what so ever be in us, be the work of God, can the work following, be the cause of gods eternal purpose? If the cause and the effects The cause and effect are diverse. proceeding of the same, be things diverse, then are our virtues and fruits not the cause of god's election, but are the effect and fruit which of the same proceed, and spring as the Apostle doth witness saying: God hath chosen us that we should be holy, and without blame And Christ jesus: saith you have not chosen me but I have chosen you, and have appointed you to go, and to bring forth fruit. This I am compelled oft to repeat, because in it most shamefully ye err, arrogating to your seluses that which is proper to gods only mercy and free grace. If you understand this former place of scripture which affirmeth that God hath no respect of persons as your book doth witness, to wit, that God careth a like for all, that he no more loveth the one, than the other, except that it be for their obedience, the hole scripture of God doth witness against you. Was the love of God no greater to Abraham and to his posterity, than it was to the rest of the nations? Moses and David do witness the contrary: Saying: he hath not done so to any nation, and his judgements he hath not showed to them, D●ut. 7. only thee, hath he chosen of all nations and people, that be upon the face of the earth, that thou shouldest be unto him a peculiar people. And what was the cause of this their dignity and prerogative before we have declared, to wit, no virtue, no obedience, no good quality that was in them, but only his free love, free grace, and undeserved mercy, as he him self doth plainly affirm? Rm. 9 I will have mercy upon whom I will have mercy, and saint Paul: it is neither of the willer, neither yet of the runner, but of God that showeth mercy to such as pleaseth him. And thus I say you can not justly nor rihtly conclude, that God hath neither chosen nor reprobated any man, because he hath no respect of persons. for as before I have said, his eternal election dependeth neither upon man, neither yet upon any thing that is within man, Neither was nor is in us, any thing whereby we should deserve to be elected but is purposed in himself, and established in Christ jesus, in whom we are elected, because that in ourselves there neither was neither yet could be any worthiness, which could merit or deserve such honour and dignity. And so God respecteth not the persons of men, their virtues, nor qualities in their election, but finding them all equal in creation, and corruption maketh difference betwixt them, according to his eternal purpose, respecting Christ jesus and not their merits. How that ever the proud and ungodly storm at this, I nothing doubt, but the children of God do thereof receive most singular consolation as that it is the chiefest cause why that without all trembling and fear, they stoop before his Majesty, and giving thanks for these inestimable benefits do crave of his mercy such a purity of lief as becometh his children. To your scriptures which ye allege from the book of wisdom and from Esdras (his fourth book), The books called Apocryphes. I will shortly answer. That albeit ye will ten thousand times deck and decore them with the title of the holy Ghost, I will not the more credit them. Not that I deny but that in them there be things contained, profitable to edification, but if that therefore ye will upon any place written within them, conclude a doctrine contrary to the rest of the canonical scriptures, I will answer with the ancient writers, that they were not written, that upon them should our faith be established. Let them serve, if so please you to exhortation, but for confirmation of any doctrine shall they never serve unto me. Neither yet this do I say, that I do think any of these places (rightly understand) to make any thing for your purpose, but that I will by god's grace, give ever that reverence unto the verity of God, Reu●rence unto gods holy word. that the voices of men shall not with me be comparable unto it. It may be greatly suspected what some men now a days do mean to ascribe that to the holy Ghost which the authors themselves did only ascribe to their own diligence and travel, and were also compelled to ask pardon of the readers that they could not attain, no not even to the propriety of the tongue in the which they did write. Read the prologue of Ecclesiasticus and the end of the last chap. of the second book of Machab. Useth the holy Ghost I pray you whose power looseth the tongues of the dumb, in that manner to be suppliant unto men, and for his imperfection to beg pardon at their hands? Consider, and impute nothing upon the holy Ghost, which becometh not the Majesty of God. but lest that ye should complain that yet your scriptures are not resolved, I will give you a general answer to all, which is this. That neither the book of wisdom, neither yet Ecclesiasticus, neither yet Esdras in these places that be alleged do entreat any thing of election, or reprobation, but the writers in all those places which ye allege do study to amend the corrupt manners of their aeges, and to impose silence to the wicked tongues of many. of whom some accused God as author of sin which entered in by malice of the devil, who did corrupt the good creature of God created to his own image to reule in equity and justice. who doth not see but that this writer, who so ever he was, retaineth himself, within the reach of man's understanding, labouring to convict their conscience which maliciously imputed unto God, that which he did not work in them? But that they of their own free will did follow and obey iniquity, and that therefore they should suffer their just condemnation. And that this my interpretation of their minds is true, let their own words witness for thus it is written. They have said with themselves, Sap. 2. not righteously judging our lief is troublesome and short, neither is there any remedy against the death of man, neither hath he been known that hath returned from the hells, we were b●rn without purpose, and we shallbe as we never had been ●or the spirit is but a smoke in our nosethrels etc. in pro●es of time our name shall come to oblivion, neither yet shall any man remember our works. therefore let us use the present prosperity, Let us oppress the poor man being just, let us not spare the widow, neither yet let us re●erence the long aeged and white hears of the ancient, but let the strength of our power, be the law of justice. and so far forth he accuseth their open tyranny, and then concludeth these things, they thought and did err, for they were blinded by their own malice: neither have they known the mysteries of God (I wonder that ye marked not this place) neither have they hoped for the reward of holiness. for God created man to immortality (here I note your falsehood: for ye writ God created man to be undestroyed) and made him to his own similitude. Now let the indifferent reader judge, whether you or I do nearer attain to the mind of the writer you (I say) that do affirm, that he denieth that God hath either elected or reprobated any man, or I that deny that to be any part of his mind, but say, he reproveth man's malicious blasphemy and manifest impiety. The argument which ye gather of the ninth chapter of the same book, and would seem to confirm by the words of Christ spoken in the seventh of Matthew, hath no greater force than the former, for the writer defineth not what God had determined in his secret and eternal counsel, but what he hath expressedly committed to man's charge by his law, and by his holy Spirit speaking in his Prophets, and that himself doth plainly witness. For after that he hath asked wisdom righteously to judge the people committed to his charge he thus speaketh: what man is he that knoweth the counsel of God or that can comprehend in his mind, what God would? The cogitations of mortal men are fearful and our opinions deceivable, etc. scarcely by conjecture can we attain, to the things that be in earth, and with travail find we those things which be amongst our hands. But who shall search out those things that be in the heavens, and who knoweth they counsel, except that thou shall give wisdom and from the highest places shall send thy holy Spirit: for so the ways of those that dwell upon earth have been directed, and they have learned those things that have pleased the. Cry now as pleaseth you, that because man was made lord over creatures in earth (for that is the verity of the text) to reule the world in holiness: That therefore there was no man reprobated, and he writer will answer for himself and will affirm, that he searcheth not what God hath determined in his eternal counsel, and what shall become of every man, (for that confesseth he to be incomprehensible), but he declareth what God commandeth in his law, and what he hath expressed by his holy Prophets. To the which if man be found inobedient resteth no excusation (seeing that gods will is manifestly declared) as Moses saith in these words. The secrets appertain to the Eternal our God but those things that be revealed appertain to us and to our children for ever, Deut. 2. that we may do all the words of this law. Your arguments which ye think most strong gathered of these words in the 7. and 12. of Matthew are most weak and vain. For as we do not deny that man was created just, so do we constantly affirm that in justice he stood not, but became altogether unjust, and therefore God did not condemn man before he was guilty, as you falsely gather of our doctrine. Wonder it is, that ye see not degrees and just causes which come betwixt the purpose of reprobation, and the just condemnation of man. This is your argument: God purposed to reject man before he was created. Ergò he did damn him before he was criminal or glitie. Your consequent is falls far no part of gods judgements was put in execution before man did sin. for grace was offered to Adam after his fall: cain was admonished and rebuked of his cruelty, his posterities and seed had raged in their fury, and finally all flesh had corrupted their ways before that god's vengeance and most just judgement were poured forth and put in execution against the rebellious and unthankful world. If you be able to prove that the sentence of death was executed upon Adam before he offended, or that Cayn was accursed by god's mouth before he had murdered, then hath your argument some appearance. but if the just causes of condemnation be found in man, and so found in man that God in vowies can thereof be accused: then ought you to be ashamed to burden us with that which ye yourselves most foolishly collect. And further ye shall understand that as the Apostle putteth certain degrees and causes which are sensible unto us, betwixt the eternal election of gods children, and their glorification, even so put we the contrary degrees and causes betwixt the reprobation and the just condemnation of the wicked. Like as there be degrees betwixt election and glorification: even so there be degrees betwixt reprobation and condemnation. for as those whom God hath chosen before all times, in time he calleth, and that of purpose to Christ jesus his son, and whom thus he calleth he justifieth and that more and more until that flesh and the corrupt affections thereof being mortified, they attain to their glory. So by the contrary be the reprobate, either left all together in blindness, never called to the light and knowledge of gods free mercy, or if they be called they either do condemn it, or else suddenly fall from the same, and so abiding in their corruption do still heap sin upon sin till at the last their measure being full, God executeth this most just judgements against their continual rebellion. Infer now as many absurdities as please you upon our doctrine. you proceed. THE ADVERSARY. You say that God reprobated and ordained man to damnation the most part of the world afore the foundations of the world were laid, The nynte section. and yet in the creation God made all men after his own image good and righteous, as the scripture witnesseth. for as we were all created in one man that is Adam. So were we all created in one estate that is after the image of God to lief, then if your opinion be true the ordinance of God in his election afore the world is not conform to his ordinance in the creation. Galat. 2. And the h●lie Ghost saith: If I build up again that which I have cast down before I declare myself to be a transgressor: if God created man to his own image unto lief whom before the creation he had reprobat and cast away, declareth he not thereby himself to be inconstant and a transgressor. Ye can not escaip here with your bare solution, where ye say afore the world, God hath not ordained all but some unto damnation, for in our creation all were ordained unto lief, for so much as we were all created after the image of God of the ordinance of God in our election afore the world. The Apostle writeth thus. we be blessed saith he with all manner of spiritual blessings in heavenly things by Christ according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundations of the world were laid that we should walk in them. Ephes. 1. Here do we learn that god's ordinance in his election afore the world, and also his ordinance in the creation, is always one. For as we are chosen in Christ jesus, so we are created in Christ jesus, and as we are chosen to be holy and without blame, so are we created unto good works. wherefore gods ordinance in his holy election, and his mighty creation, is one, and of like strength and sureness. further seeing we be (as the Apostle saith) both elect and created in Christ Iesu. and forasmuch as there is no damnation to them that are in Christ jesus, then is there no damnation either in the election or creation. ANSWER. Because that aswell your forged lies as the vanity of your reasons have been declared I will not trouble the reader with repetition of the same. And will also touch the rest of these your arguments so briefly as I can. Where ye reason that we were all created in one man that is in Adam: So were we all created in one estate etc. If ye understand that we were all created in one estate, that is in that estate which shortly was to change, because that God had so determined in his eternal counsel, that by the fall of one, his infinite mercy towards his chosen, and severe judgement towards the vessels of wraith should evidently appear in the time appointed by his wisdom. If this I say you understand that we were all created in one estate I will not contend with you. Albeit in very deed in that self same mass there were at once vessels of mercy and vessels of wraith. But because ye open you mind, in the contrary part saying: That we were created in Adam after the image of God to lief, I am compelled utterly to dissent from you and fear not to affirm that because none did stand to the end in that image, but all fell even to death in Adam: that therefore neither in Adam neither yet in that image as Adam had it, was any created unto lief, but in Christ jesus were all the chosen predestinate to lief everlasting, Ephes. 1. even before that ever Adam was created as the Apostle plainly doth witness. Where ye go about to prove by our opinion the ordinance of God in his election before the world, To the. 2. not to be conform to his ordinance in the creation and so consequently God to be a transgressor and inconstant, ye declare yourself not only ignorant, vain and foolish, but also irreverent and blasphemous against god's majesty. for ye (so far as in you lieth) spoil him of his Godhead making him to change his counsel, purpose, and ordinance even so oft as the creatures do change: where we by the contrary labour to explain, and not to escaip any violence of your darts by a bare solution (as ye allege) but by the plain scriptures openly we do affirm that as our God is eternal incomprehensible, and immutable so are his counsels constant, subject to no immutability nor change: constant I say in God himself, how so ever things change to our apprehension. And therefore we say that neither in his election before the world, neither in his creation of man to his own image and similitude, was it his eternal counsel, purpose nor ordinance that all the posterity of Adam should be saved. And so can ye not prove that God destroyed any thing which he had builded. Albeit to note one thing by the way: Paul would not have been so bold, as to have made himself check mate with God, he did not (I say) accuse God of inconstancy, neither did he appoint him to be a transgressor although he builded the ceremonies under the Law, and destroyed them again. But to our purpose. 〈◊〉 I say destroyed nothing which he had builded. True it is that man destroyed that image which God had builded, but that building of God was but temporal, and for a time only, but the perfect building of his church was in Christ jesus, builded before the foundations of the world were laid: which building God never destroyed nor shall destroy, but shall consummate the work to the praise of his holy name. To him be glory. In your hole reasoning of the words of the Apostle you do err in this point, as before I have noted, that ye make common to all, that which the holy Ghost maketh peculiar to gods elect. for ye must first prove all to be saints by vocation, All be not Saints nor blessed with spiritual benediction. all to be blessed with spiritual benediction, and to have obeyed, and all to be builded upon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles before that ye be able to prove that all were elected and predestinate in Christ jesus before all times. That we are created in Christ jesus unto good works, is not to be referred (as ye think) to the common creation of all men in Adam, but to the new and spiritual regeneration which gods children have in Christ jesus: for the which David did pray, saying: a clean heart create in me (o God) which is no less called the creation of God, then was the first creation of man. for as man in his creation, neither wrought, neither yet could deserve to be created so honourable as he was, but did suffer the power of God to work even as it pleased his wisdom to perform the work. So in our new creation unto good works the only grace and power of God worketh not only the beginning, Our regeneration to good works is by the grace of God. but also bringeth to perfection, so that what so ever be good, holy, or just in us, is god's creation and not our work. God open your eyes that ye may see that neither in Adam neither yet in ourselves, were we created to good works, but in Christ jesus alone. And then I think ye will not so much boast of your fire will. Your last, as after ye do reason is a plain Paralogism, that is a Sophistical and false argument: for it standeth on four terms against the use of all good and solid reasoning. For thus ye proceed: Saing, we be elect and created in Christ jesus, and seeing there is no condemnation to them that be in Christ jesus, then is there no damnation neither in the election nor creation. Here be plainly four terms. for in your Mayor that is in the first part of your argument ye say not, we were elected and created in our election, and in our creation, but we were elected and created in Christ jesus. The second proposition is most true to wit that there is no condemnation to them that be in Christ jesus, to such as walk not after the flesh. but what can ye conclude hereof, that no damnation (say you) is in election nor in creation? I say your conclusion is false and vain for you change your terms, putting in the last part these two words: Election and creation, where ye ought to have rehearesed these words: Christ jesus: for thus you may well proceed, we be elected and created to good works in Christ jesus, but to them (saith the Apostle) that be in Christ jesus there is no condemnation, Ergo to such as be elected and newly created in Christ jesus there is no damnation. This argument is formal and true. but omitting your foolishness which oftener I am compelled to show then gladly I would, I go forward with your words. THE ADVERSARY. If God reprobated man afore the foundation of the world, The tenth section. than God reprobated man before he offended. And if God reprobated and damned man afore be offended, then is death, the reward of god's ordinance afore the world, and not the reward of sin. But the Apostle teacheth us that by sin death entered into the world and also that death is the reward of sin. I pray you doth either god's law or man's law condemn any man afore he hath offended? I am certain ye are not able to prove it to be sothen ought you to be ashamed to burden God with such unrighteous judgement. Doth not God rather forgive the offence already committed? Let him be your God which condemneth the innocent afore he offend. But he shall be my God which perdoneth and forgiveth the offence already committed which in his very wraithe doth think upon mercy. And so with job will I conclude, The great God casteth away no man. ANSWER. How ignorantly and how impudently ye confound the eternal purpose of god's reprobation with the just execution of his judgements I have before declared and therefore here only resteth to admonish the reader that most unjustly ye accuse us in that ye say: that we hold and teach that God damned man before he offended. This you be never able to show in any of our works. for constantly in word and writing we affirm that man willingly fell from God, and made himself slave to sathan before that death was inflicted upon him. and so neither make we death the reward of god's ordinance, neither do we burden him with unrighteous judgement. But say with the Apostle, that death is the reward of sin, and that our God is righteous in all his works. and therefore be ashamed and repent your manifest lie. To 〈…〉 That God forgiveth the sin committed, and doth remember mercy even when he appeareth in his hot displeasure to punish his Church, with thanks giving and joy we acknowledge. But that thereof ye conclude▪ (as ye say with job) that the great God casteth away no man, we can not cease to admonish both you and the readers, that either ignorantly, or else maliciously ye corrupt and deprave the mind of the speaker in that place: Elihu saith not as ye allege. job. 36. The great God casteth away no man, but saith: Behold the mighty God casteth away none that is mighty and valiant of courage, He main teneth not the wicked, but he giveth judgement to the afflicted. And in this behalf your master Castalio (who notwithstanding that he useth to take large liberty in translation, where any thing may seem to serve his purpose) is more circumspect and more faithful than you be. for thus he translateth that place. Although that God be excellent yea excellent and strong of courage, yet is he not so dissolute, that either he will keep the wicked, Castalio is translation. or deny judgement to the poor. Although I say, that here is a greater liberty than I would wish a faithful translator to use, yet hath he not so corrupted the sense as ye have done. Elihu reasoning against job affirmeth that albeit the power of God be infinite, yet can not his works be unjust, but that they are wrought in all perfection of justice. howbeit that often (as we be dull and blind) we do not understand nor see at the first the causes of the same, yet God giveth daily declaration of his justice, in that the preserveth and sometime exalteth the virtuous, that before were afflicted, and dejecteth from honours the wicked and the cruel oppressors. Be judge yourself what this serveth for your purpose. THE ADVERSARY. Some other be that grant that sin was à cause why man is reprobate, The eleventh section. and there with they hold that gods absolute ordinance is also the cause, this saying containeth contradiction in itself: for if it be gods absolute ordinance. then is it not in respect of any other thing, but as they say because it hath so pleased him, if they meant that god's ordinance is the cause why sinners suffer death, or that God ordained that sinners for their sin should suffer death, I could agree with them. but that were contrary to that which they have said, that God absolutely ordained any man afore he was, yea afore the world to death because so it pleased him. for if death be the reward of sin, and for offence, and sin we do die, then cometh not death by gods absolute ordinance. And if I do grant that both gods absolute ordinance and also sin are the causes of damnation after your meaning, mark well what inconvenience followeth thereof. first ye must grant me that gods ordinance is the principal and chiefest cause, (for it can not be inferior to any other cause) secondly ye will grant that the first or principal cause called Causa Causae, is the cause of the second and inferior cause called cause causate, so to conclude, gods ordinance which is Causa causae, shallbe the cause of sin which is Causa causata. As for a familiar exemple, the heat of the son, and the dew, cause the ground to be fruitful, and God also is the cause thereof for he maketh the barren ground fruitful, but forasmuch as God is the principal and first cause, he must be also the cause of the same which is but the second cause. Thus it is clearly proved that if god's ordinance were the cause of reprobation than gods ordinance should also be the cause of sin, and God should be author of evil, contrary to the hole scripture, contrary to the opinion of all godly men, and contrary to our faith: But forasmuch as God willing I intent to answer at length to this wicked opinion in the confutation of the third error, I will speak no more hereof in this place. ANSWER. No further answer needeth to be given to these your most unjust accusations, To the 1. than those which we before have given. for neither do we so unreverently speak nor write, neither yet do we understand nor affirm, that gods absolute ordinance is the principal cause of reprobation, of sin, and of damnation: but simply we do teach, that God in his etternall counsel for the manifestation of his own glory hath of one mast chosen vessels of honour, whom before all times he hath given unto Christ jesus, that they in him should receive lief. And of the same mass he hath left others in that corruption in the which they were to fall, and so were they prepared to destruction. The cause why the one were elected, we confess and knowledge not to be in man, but to be the free grace and the free mercy showed and freely given to us in Christ jesus, who only is appointed head to give life to the body. Why the others were rejected, we affirm the cause to be most just: but yet secret and hid from us, reserved in his eternal wisdom to be revealed at the glorious coming of the Lord jesus. This one thing do we (compelled by your blasphemous accusations) repeat oftener than we would: to the end that indifferent men may see what doctrine it is, which you so maliciously impugn. How so ever ye join gods absolute ordinance and sin together, To the 2. we make so far division betwixt the purpose and eternal counsel of God (for absolute ordinance we use not in that matter) and the sin of man, that we plainly affirm: that man when he sinned, did neither look to gods will, god's counsel, nor eternal purpose: but did altogether consent to the will of the devil, which did manifestly ganesay gods revealed will. And therefore do we affirm that neither was the purpose nor counsel of God any cause of sin: but we say with the Apostle that by one man did sin enter into the world. The cause whereof was the malice of the devil, and that free consent of man to rebellion, whose will was neither enforced neither yet by any violence of gods purpose compelled to consent, but he of fire will and ready mind left God and joined with the devil. Convict us now (if ye can) that we make gods absolute ordinance (which manner of speaking I say we abhor) to be the principal cause of sin. Albeit that ye would be seen subtle in adding your▪ Logical terms Causa causae, and Causa causata, yet doth your similitude which ye bring forth for demonstration of your purpose declare that either ye have not learned or else that ye have forgotten the chief and principal point of right reasoning, which all reasonable men confess to be, rightly to divide. For if ye can not divide betwixt the will of God working all things for his own glory, and the operation of creatures, be they Son, Moon, stars, rain or dew, who can work nothing but as God hath appointed, I will not follow you as a God. We say not that god's ordinance is the cause of reprobation, The just causes of reprobation are hid in gods eternal counsel. but the causes of death and damnation are evident in the scriptures. but we affirm that the just causes of reprobation are hid in the eternal counsel of God, and known to his godly wisdom alone: but the causes of sin, of death, and damnation are evident and manifestly declared to us in the scriptures to wit, man's free will consenting to the deceivable persuasion of the devil, wilful sin, and voluntary rebellion, by which entered death into this world, the contempt of graces and gods mercies offered with the heaping up of sin upon sin, till damnation justly came. These causes I say of sin, death, and damnation, are plainly noted unto us in gods holy scriptures. But why it pleased God to show merice to some, and deny the same to others, because the judgements of God are a devouring depth, The judgements of God are a devouring depth. we enter not in reasoning with him, but with all humility render thanks to his Majesty for the grace and mercy which we doubt not but of his free grace we have received in Christ jesus our only head. When you shall further charge us that we make God author of evil, we have good hope plainly to convict your venomous tongues of a most malicious lie. Now to your words. THE ADVERSARY. The Lord reasoneth with the inobedient Israelites which did forsake him saying: The twelfth section. O my people what have I done unto thee? or wherein have I hurt thee, give me answer? If the Israelites had been so well learned as you, they might have answered, Lord thou hast preordinate us by thy immutable decree to fall away from thee, so that of necessity we must perish, in this hast thou hurt us with an uncurable wound. ANSWER. How so ever we be learned if ye betimes repent not your unreverent skoffing, and jesting at gods eternal predestination, ye shall learn in experience, that the immutable decree of God, is most just by the which the fire which never shall be quenched is prepared for the devil and his angels, and for all such as with trembling do not fear his godly Majesty, and with sobriety do not contemplate his judgements incomprehensible. And thus I leave your blasphemous boldness to be repressed by the power of him whose judgements you mock. THE ADVERSARY. Now I intent with the help of God to answer to the arguments which they that be entangled with this error use to allege for the proof thereof, The thirteenth section. leaving such as be▪ but vain, and engender rather contention then edifying, answering to such as some most weighty collected of certain places of the scriptures whereby it may be thought that they may be deceived, beseeching the gentle reader to weigh the matter with an indifferent balance, and first hear before thou refuse, and God willing thou shalt not repent the of thy labour. but forasmuch as the author and mainteners' of this error do often make mention of election, whereby they would cloak their absurditeis, I will first declare how election is taken in the scriptures three manner of ways, that is generally, specially, and most specially of all. first we be all chosen and created in Christ jesus as Paul witnesseth to the Ephesians in the first and second chapter, and conform to this election he lightened all them that came into the world, and calleth all men to repentance both great and small, Esaia. 50 rich and poor, jew and gentle, male and female, of all estates, without respect of any person. And all that be thirsty he calleth to come to the water of lief. Secondly he commandeth them which come at the first calling to renounce father and mother, wife and child with all other earthly things, yea and themselves also. This is the second election where there departed an innumerable multitude which will not forsaik such things but for their own lusts. Here departed cain with the monstrous Giants, cruel tyrants, and bloody hypocrites, and all persecutors which shed innocent blood. here departed Epicurus with all his belly gods: among which was the rich glutton which despised Lazarus, there departed Sardanapalus accompanied with venus, and all that be drowned in the lusts of the flesh. Among which was Herodias. There departed Croesus with many rich wealthy persons: among which was the rich young man of whom we read in the Gospel, that with a sorry countenance he departed from Christ. There departed Tarqvinius the proud with such as be puffed up with the Pomp, glory, of this world. Among which was Herode● of whom we read in the Acts of the Apostles, that for his pride he was stricken of God and eaten of lice. There departed Demetrius the silver smithe with such as will not forsake their filthy lucre. Amongst which were the master and masters of the damsel possessed with a spirit that prophesied. There departed a hole band of stoics with their destiny playing fast loose, and that of necessity, which passeth all jugglers coming. Among them are all such as defend that of mere necessity a few number must be saved, and of mere necessity all the rest of the world must be condemned. Who so abideth this second election and calling, Christ commandeth them to take up their cross and follow him. And thus to continue to the end: this is the third and last election of which saith the Lord: Esaia. 48 I have chosen the in the fire of tribulation. here the seventy disciples departed, for they can not abide this hard saying, here doth judas trudge, they which remain suffer great assaults, in so much that some time they turn there backs to their enemies (as the Apostles did, when Christ was taken) and there do worthy soldiers stagger, stumble, and fall: as Peter when he denied his master, and swore he knew him not, And Thomas could in no wies believe that Christ was risen, and had obtained victory. yet they which at the voice of their captain rise up, and turn again, and fight lawfully, even unto the end, they are chief above all others called elect and chosen because they continuing unto the end obtain that whereunto they are chosen, and they follow the lamb whether so ever he goeth: it is a hard thing that any such be deceived, and fall away, forasmuch as they first are illuminated from above, and have forsaken all, yea themselves, and have altogether submitted themselves to the governance of their Lord and capiten Christ. They daily obtain such victory of their enemies, that their warfare is now become easy. And in hope they have to subdue by the aid and counsel of their Lord, all their enemies their joy and comfort is so great, that they esteem all earthly pleasure (which should draw them back) but vane, foolish displeasant and beast●lyke, happy is he which understandeth this to be true, not only by speculation, but also by experience. These three kinds of election are plainly set forth in the history of Gedeon, which being w●ll and duly understanded confyr to the world. ANSWER. Before ye enter to confute our arguments as ye boldly promise, To the 1. ye affirm that election is taken in the scriptures three manner of ways. That is (as you say) Generally, specially, and most especially of all, which division with the probation of the same is so foolish, so falls, and so far from the purpose, that unless ye should have occasion to calunniat, that so much of your book I passed over with out answer, I would not spend the moment of an hour in answering the same. Ephe. 1. For how little do the words of Paul serve for your general election in the confirmation of your eight reason▪ and after also, I have declared. And I leave to be proved of your part by the evident testimony of any scripture, that God so oft electeth to lief everlasting as he commandeth man to refuse himself or else as he giveth his further grace to such as he hath called to the knowledge of himself, and of his only beloved Son Christ jesus. That there is a general vocation by the which the world by some manner of means is called to the knowledge of God and a vocation of purpose which apperte●neth to gods children only I find in scriptures. To the 2. But that there is any election to lief everlasting, except that which is and was in Christ jesus in the eternal counsel of God before the foundation of the world I am assured that neither scripture affirmeth, john. 1. neither justly can it be gathered upon any sentence of the same. That the true light (which is Christ jesus) illuminated all men coming in to this world we confess: To the 3. but what will ye thereof conclude. Ergò say ye: all are elected in him to lief everlasting: I deny your consequence. And say that albeit man be endued with the light of reason and understanding which no doubt proceedeth from Christ, and is not of nature only, yet doth it not therefore consequently follow that every man that hath reason is elected in Christ to the lief everlasting. if ye ask, for what purpose then doth their lightning and illumination serve them, Rom. 1. the Apostle doth answer you, that they may be inexcusable: which reason, if it satisfy not your curiosity, To the 4. quarrel with the holy Gost. If you be able to prove that all that be called, do earnestly repent, and that all be thirsty to whom the waters of lief are offered, ye have said somewhat to prove a general election. But and if it be evident that a great number do rather repine against the truth, nor repent their iniquity, which it reproveth, and that more do either seem to have no thirst to righteousness, or else do drink of the stinking puddles of man's doctrine, then that they will receive those wholesome waters of lief which Christ jesus giveth to his Church, then have you proved no part of your purpose. Isaiah. 55. And wonder it is that in the words of the Prophet and in the words of our master Christ jesus also, ye see not a plain difference made. for the Prophet calleth not all indifferently to drink of these waters, but such as do thirst. And Christ restraineth his generality to such as did travail and were burdened with sin: such I say he confesseth himself to call to repentance. But to such as were just and hole, he affirmeth that he was not sent. And so yet once again I affirm that the scriptures of God make but mention of one Election to lief everlasting. I am not ignorant that Saul was elected to be king over Israel and judas also to the office of an Apostle: but whether thereof, you be able to convince that they were both elected to the lief everlasting in Christ jesus, before that they did offend (for so you affirm) I remit you to your proof. I fear not to prove that by the verity himself, judas is called the devil, long before that the holy Ghost maketh any mention, john. 6. that it entered in to his heart to betray his master. It may appear to some that in heaping of your exemples and histories, To the 5. which ye adduce for your especial election (as ye term it) ye rather delight to renew your memoire, then substantially to prove your purpose. For if a man should thus reason against you. The sheep of Christ which by the eternal purpose of God, An argument against the adversaries forged division of god's election. be especially elected to lief, hear his voice and with reverence do know and obey the same. But these whom ye rehearse, did hear the voice (as ye allege) but neither did they know nor obey it, Ergo they were not the sheep elected and especially chosen. if thus I say any man should reason, prepare for your answer. And farther how ye be able to prove that Sardanapalus, Croesus and Tarqvinius the proud can be placed in this rank of your especially elected, I can see no good reason. for except that calamity and gods just vengeance did follow their insolency, filthy lief, and pride, I find in histories no special message sent unto them from God. But this ye may understand by some secret revelation which ye have received of late in your perfection. To the 6. That ye place us with the hole band of the stoics who with their destiny play fast or lose and that of necessity which as you say passeth the cunning of all jugglers. Although we do not greatly fear the force of your sentence, yet must we appeal to a more righteous and indifferent judge, that is to the Lord jesus: to whom all judgement is given. and in the mean time we further must require such as be indifferent in this matter to judge betwixt you and us, whether that we or ye be those that play fast or loose in that which ye skoffingly call destiny and stoical necessity, and we call gods eternal election and purpose immutable. We affirm that god's election in Christ jesus is so certain and his eternal purpose to save his church is so constant, Matth. 16 that against the faith of gods elect shall not the Ports and gates of hell prevale in the end: that neither can lief nor death, things present nor to come separate and dissever us from the love of God which is in Christ jesus. That this foundation is stable the Lord knoweth his own: Rom. 8. and therefore shall every one that incalleth the name of the Lord depart from inquiry. for we are not called to uncleanness but unto sanctification and holiness by the power of that Spirit who raised from death jesus the great Pastor of our souls, which holy spirit freely by faith (which also is the gift of God) doth so reule and reign in our hearts, that albeit the flesh lusteth against the spirit yet are we assured of victory by the only power of him, who hath overcome the world. This is our doctrine, faith and profession. But you affirm as after plainly ye writ, that none is so elected in Christ to lief everlasting, but that he may fall, become a reprobate and finally be condemned, and contrary ways, that none is so reprobate in gods eternal purpose, but that he may become elect and so be saved. That in God there is neither election nor reprobation but according to man's disposition: so that when men have good motions, and be godly disposed God doth elect them, and write their names in the book of lief, but when they change and turn to iniquity he doth reprobate them and blotteth out their names out of the book of lief. Let now all creatures judge betwixt us and you whether of the two play fast and lose and surmount jugglers in cunning. To the 7. from the third kind of election, which ye call most especial how you be able to prove that the seventy disciples did so departed from Christ that there was no difference betwixt them and the trudging of judas (as ye term his horrible treason) be judges yourself. john. 6. In the sixth of john we read that many of his disciples left him and falling from him did go with him no more. But whether these were the hole seventy whom he sent to preach or others who for a time did follow him it is not expressed, neither yet doth the text say that all his disciples fell from him, but many departed. further it appeareth to me very rash judgement to pronounce that none that departed from Christ at any time in his lief before his death upon the cross, The free will men judge rashly. did at any time after, return unto him, but that all such did remain in damnation with judas. For I find that all his Apostles did fly and leave him, and yet we know they were called again. And so also do we find were two of the disciples to whom Christ appearing betwixt jerusalem and Emaus did first instruct them and after revealed himself unto them. This I note to give you occasion to be more circunspect in so weighty matters. Towards the end of this part, To the 8. thus ye writ (of those whom you say have subjecteth themselves altogether to the government of their Lord and captain): they daily obtain such victory of their enemies that their war fare is now become easy, and in the hope they have to subdue by the aid and counsel of their Lord all their enemies, there joy and comfort is so great that they esteem all earthly pleasure, which should draw them back, but vain. These words augment in me that suspicion which before I noted to wit that ye have a further fetch in this matter than your rude scholars understand at the first: The perfecdtion that the adversaries pretend in this life. to wit that every one of you shall become Christ's, so perfect and clean, that in you even in this lief shall rest no enemy to be overcome except death only and that this is the opinion of your greatest Angels I am able to prove by sufficient testimony, I mean by their own hand writings. But how far S. Paul was from that perfection, yea even when he was ready to be offerred in sacrifice for the testimony of Christ jesus, he eshamed not to confess, thus writing to the Philippians, after that he had affirmed that all justice which before he looked for in the law was become to him as damage and dung, to the end that he might win Christ, and be found in him not having his own justice which was of the law, but that which was by the faith of Christ jesus. Philip. 3. he addeth: Not as though I had already attained to the mark, (understanding to that justice which he hoped for) either that I am already perfect, but I follow if I may comprehend that, for whoes sake I am comprehended of Christ jesus. Brethren I think not with myself to have attained to the mark, but one thing I do forgetting that that is behind I endeavour myself to that which is before. here the Apostle, who had foghten somewhat longer than some who now can brag of an easy battle, confessed, he was not yet perfect, neither yet that he had attained to that estate, that is to the resurrection of the dead to the which he daily did contend. The other poison which in these your former words I espy, and therefore of conscience must admonish my brethren is: That ye be proud contemners of the free graces of God offered to man in Christ jesus. for with the Pelagians and Papists ye are become teachers of free will, and defenders of your own justice. for how coldly ye speak of Christ jesus and his power, these your words may witness. How strong the adversaries would seem to be. They are in hope (say you) to subdue their enemies by the aid & counsel of their Lord, are you become so strong and your warfare so easy that the counsel of your captain is sufficient for you to conquer your enemies? you suddenly did repent that ye had confessed that the aid of your Lord was necessary for you: and therefore to mitigate and extenuate that, immediately ye add by the counsel of their Lord. Is this I pray you unfeignedly to confess that without Christ ye may do nothing, that of yourselves ye be not able to think one good thought? That it is he that beginneth and to the end performeth the work of our salvation? God of his great mercy and for Christ jesus his sons saik, preserve his Church from your pestilent vennom. To the 9 What ye mean by the history of Gedeon in thee (which say you) well and duelly understanded be your three kinds of Election plainly set forth, because ye yourself do not express, I will not divine. The copy which came to my hands was in that place imperfect. for after the former words it had only written Confyr to the world. And because I will not take upon me to alter any thing in your words I leave them to be corrected by yourselves, and your mind further to be explained in that point: if so it shall seem good unto you. Ye proceed saying. THE ADVERSARY. The first argument of them which abuse gods holy predestination is easily soluted, The fourteenth section. their argument is this. where so ever there is election, there is also reprobation of the same sort. But God elected some men afore the foundations of the world. Ergo he reprobated some other men afore the world. The first part of this argument is false, That where so ever there is election, there is also reprobation of the same sort. for god's election afore the world hath no respect unto his contrary reprobation afore the world. Yea there is no such word nor phrase in the hole scripture but god's election afore the world, is general to all men, as his calling is general without respect of persons. This is all ready sufficiently proved, yet some of you do grant gods calling to be general, but not his election. And in this ye accuse God of hypocrisy, you would make him a dissembler like unto yourselves, which often times with your mouth do offer and promise that which ye mind never to perform. But God is faithful which is willing to perform all that he promiseth even to them that refuseth him. And though they attain not the promise because of their unbelieve, yet all the time of their calling be they in the general election, as those whom the king called to the marriage, notwithstanding they came not, yet were they chosen to be partakers of the marriage, and the servant to whom the master forgave all his debts, was chosen notwithstanding he attained not that, Isaia. 48 whereunto he was chosen, but became a reprobate, abusing the goodness of his master. God is no hypocrite, which calleth men owtwardly, and forgiveth debts only with the mowth, but even from the heart, willing to give sal●ation to all them to whom he offereth it. And the cause why such do perish is their obstinatnes to god's grace: and as the Lord saith their stifneck which hath an iron vain and their brows of brass which despise the goodness of God, they became cast aways, Because (as saint john saith) they love darkness better than light, And as Esdras Esdr. 9 saith they kept not that which was sown in them. whereof we may gather that they become reprobates, I●rem. 2. because they rather refuse the grace offered and grafted in them, then that they are refused. Notwithstanding both may be conveniently spoken: for because they have forsaken me, I will also forsake them, saith the Lord. And again saith the holy Gost. Cometh not this unto thee, because thou hast forsaken the Lord thy God. further that this is untrue, where so ever there is election there is also reprobation of the same kind, it may be easily proved by the inconvenience which cometh thereof. Esaia. 42. & 43. Christ is the elect and chosen of God, As then: Behold this may servant upon whom I lean, my elect in whom my soul is pacified. And in an other place. The scriptures affirm that there be many falls Christ's & falls Prophets But jesus Christ is our only Saviour: without whom there is no salvation. Thou art my witness saith the lord, and my servant whom I have chosen, and wile you say therefore that there be more Christ's which be reprobate. for either this saying, where so ever there is election, there is also reprobation of the same kind is false, or else there must be more Christ's. That were much like to the saying of a jew which when he had talked with a faithful man very much concerning the temporal and worldly dominion and honour of Messiah, the christian proved by the prophecy of Daniel, and also by the prophecy of Isaiah that Messiah should be evil entreated even of the jews, and put to death as an offender. Here the jew being driven to a narrow shift rather than he would apply and confess the truth, he rather confessed that there should come two Messiah of whom the one should be despised, and the other magnified. And if ye be so minded that rather than ye will depart from your error, ye had liefer confess more Christ's (of which some be chosen, and the others reprobate) Surely than I think it is no faithful man's duty to reason with you. ANSWER. easy it is in deed to solute those arguments which in our names ye falsely forge either by adding such patches as in our writings can never be found, To the 1. or else by so perverting our minds, yea and the mind of the holy Ghost that if possible it were, ye would obscure the brightness of the son, and take from creatures, the benefit of the same, to the end that in your darkness ye might still remain. And therefore ● can not but complain of your devilish malice which causeth you to pervert and writhe words well spoken and reasons godly and substantially made. Show if ye can in any of our writings that we affirm that where so ever there is election there is also reprobation of the same sort. Show that clause I say of the same sort and I will confess that ye have red more than I have done, of that matter, which nevertheless I hardly can believe. But to the end that the simple reader may understand how we do reason of election and reprobation by the contrary effects I will adduce not our reasons lately invented, but twenty years ago committed unto writing by that notable instrument of God john Calvin, Institu. 2. Cap. ●ec. 78. who thus speaketh, wonder it is saith he that Chrisostom did not call to mind that it is the election of God which maketh difference betwixt men. We fear not to grant that which S. Paul in great constancy doth affirm. To wit that all together are wicked and given to malice, but with him we add. That by the mercy of God it cometh to pass tha● we abide not in wickedness. therefore seeing that naturally we all labour with a like sickness. These only receive health and amend to whom it hath pleased the Lord to put to his curing hand, others whom by his just judgement he passeth by, do languish in their corruption, till they be consumed. Neither yet from any where else doth it come that some continue to the end, and others fall in to the curse which was begun. for because that persuerance itself is the gift of God, which is not commonly given to all: but he freely giveth it to whom it pleaseth him. If the cause of the difference be sought, why some constantly continue, and why others fall away by instability, none other cause may be assigned, but that the eternal God sustaineth and strengtheneth the one sort, by his own power, that they perish not, and unto the others he giveth not the strength, that they may be documents, and witness of man's inconstancy etc. Thus use we to reason by the diversity which we sein men that one sort are elect and others are reprobate and not as ye imagine us to do. We say that nature hath made us equal as concerning corruption, and yet we see great diversity amongst men. We ask what is the cause of this. If ye answer education which some Philosophers do, that will be proven falls, as before I have declared: if ye say man's free will, we proceed demanding who giveth the good will, if ye allege man himself, the scripture proveth you liars saying it is God that worketh the will and the performance. if God be granted (as he can not be denied) to be the only author of all goodness, then ask we, why giveth he the good will to the one, and not to the other. If ye answer because the one receiveth grace and the other doth refuse it, ye have said nothing to the purpose. for we still demand, if God may not (if so it pleased his eternal wisdom) frame and form the will of the one to as great obedience as the will of the other: fret and fume as ye list: this ye can not deny, except that ye will be blasphemous deniers of his omnipotent power. Now of this manifest diversity which we see in mankind, we conclude that God hath aswell his elect whom of mercy he calleth, by faith justifieth, and by his holy Spirit sanctifieth, and in knowledge of himself and of his Son jesus preserveth to the end, and so in the end shall he glorify them: as also that he hath his reprobate, whom for just causes he leaveth to themselves to langwish in their corruption, to pass from iniquity to iniquity, till that they come to perdition, as they that are prepared vessels of wraith. If this ye be not able to convince, I send you to fight with your own shadow. for our reasons do stand as I have shortly rehearsed which you be never able to move. De eterna Dei proedestinatione True it is that john Calvin thus writeth: Inter electos & reprobos mutua est relatio, That is betwixt the elect and the reprobrate (saith he) there is a mutual relation, that is the one hath a contrary respect to the other, so that the election of the which the Apostle speaketh, can not stand except we should grant that God hath set apart one sort of men whom it pleased him from an other sort. You hear no mention in these words of your patch, There is reprobation of the same sort, which I know either ye, or else your Master Castalio forged. Because ye would not forget your merry tale of your jew, To the. 2. ye boldly deny that god's election hath respect to his contrary reprobation. But when ye should come to the plain demonstration thereof, ye are compelled to fly to this shift: There is no such word or phrase in the scripture. if such a reason should be made before a reasonable man, I think it justly might be rejected. for if this be a good reason: Election hath no respect to his contrary reprobation, because the words nor phrase are not in the scripture, then is this reason good also: Lot sinned not committing incest with his daughters: for in the hole scriptures there is neither such word nor phrase, that in plain words affirmeth: that Lot sinned committing incest with his daughters. Consider the vanity of your reasons and be ashamed. Ye can not deny, but this word Election is red in the scriptures: And so oft I say can ye not deny except that willingly ye will corrupt the mind of the holy Ghost, but that it hath respect to his contrary reprobation, as by the phrases which ye impudently deny to be in the scriptures is most evident. As when Paul saith: hath God then rejected or refused his people? God forbid. Rom. 〈◊〉 God hath not refused his people whom he knew before. And so alleging the like to have been in the days of Helias, he saith: even so in this time there were a residue or a few number left according to the election of grace, that is according to the free election, and not according unto works. And after he saith that which Israel seeketh, it hath not attained unto: but the election hath attained unto it: but the rest were blinded, whether that this phrase doth not plainly prove that election in this place hath respect to his contrary, reprobation, let the indifferent reader judge. The election (saith saint Paul) hath attained (understanding the illumination which God did promise) but the rest were blinded. If ye will not suffer that this blinded rest: whom God justly had rejected, shall be called reprobat, study ye for a more gentle word. for we must use such as the holy Ghost hath taught us. But yet one phrase or two more: I shall have mercy, saith God to Moses, upon whom I will have mercy. And Paul feareth not to add his contrary saying: and whom he will he maketh hard hearted. And again what if God willing to show his wrath and to make his power known hath suffered with long patience the vessels of wrath made ready to damnation: and that he might declare the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy which he had prepared unto glory. If mercy, lief, the vessels of mercy, and glory have contrary, respect to severity, to destruction, to the vessels of wraith, and of dishonour, then can it not be denied but that election, (from the which all these former graces flow to the elect) hath contrary respect to reprobation. I omit the rest of the phrases which be common in scripture and make plain difference betwixt the elect and reprobat, because before I have noted diverse and after must be compelled to repeat the same. How sufficiently ye have proved your general, special, and most special election, let the readers judge by that which is answered to your eight unreasonable reason, and to your 13. vanity. That impudent blasphemy which maliciously ye lay to our charge shall God (without speedy repentance suddenly revenge upon your own heads) blasphemous mouth, To the 3. I writ to thee whose corrupt manners, friendly and secretly I have rebuked, but whose malice I now know. Canst thou not be unthankful unto man, except that also thou power forth thy vennom against god's Majesty? Impudent liar (which of us hath promised unto the or unto any of thy pestilent sect, that which he hath not performed? Examine thy conscience, and deny if thou canst, but more hath been performed unto thee, then ever was promised, yea even when thou didst deserve to have been abhorred of all honest men: and yet without fear or shame dost thou accuse us that we should accuse God of hypocrisy and that we would make him a dissembler like unto ourselves. The Lord for his great Names saik either purge thy heart, or suddenly repress that venom in the and in that pestilē● sect, to his own glory, and to the comfort of his Church. Repent, repent (I say) or else shortly shall thou feel what it is to contristate and make sorrowful the Spirit of God, be the instruments, in whom he worketh never so weak. If of every Parable and similitude ye will conclude as largely as ye do here to wit, To the 4. that because in a Parable it is said that a king called many to the marriage, Ergò God elected all by his general election. Then it shall follow that all lords and masters shall allow and praise their stewards and servants, Luk. 16 that deceive them. for so is affirmed in a parable, that one lord did to his steward. If we shall rather believe Christ jesus then you, than we shall thus conclude: Many are called, but few chosen. wonder it is that ye can not see the difference betwixt these words: The king called many, and God chose all. I am ashamed of your ignorance. Of gods constant fidelity, of his promises of the causes why the reprobate are more and more blinded, we have before somewhat spoken and after will have occasion to repeat the same. When ye would be seen most crafty and subtle, To the 5. then appeareth most your ignorance and vanity. To prove an absurdity in our doctrine, thus ye reason: If where so ever election be, there is also reprobation of the same kind (this last patch, I say, is your malicious addition, but let it stand for a testimony of your untruth) if then say you Christ be the elect and chosen of God (as the scriptures affirm him to be) then must it needs follow, that there be more Christ's of whom ●ome must be reprobate: and thereupon ye bring in your foolish tale of your Iew. First I answer, you according to your merry disposition, which I perceive did titill you in writing this part: That if ye can make no difference betwixt election, and elect, than I would ye were committed again to some quick and sharp Pedagogue who with sharp rods would let you feel what difference there is betwixt Agentem & Patientem. Assuredly your unreverent jesting in these secret mysteries of our redemption, and these scoffing tantes in malice casten out against the eternal Son of God, and his undoubted verity, deserve none other answer. but yet partly to let your ignorance appear, and partly for the instruction of the simple, I will prepare myself to answer with greater modesty than your malice deserveth. I have said before that this patch, upon the which ye gather your absurdity is none of our doctrine. for we have neither written nor yet taught: that where so ever is election, there must also reprobation be. of the same kind: but simply we say that election hath respect to his contrary reprobation. But to grant you somewhat, and not to hold you so straight, let it be that so we had written, what should rightly thereof follow? that there must be more Christ's, of whom some must be reprobate, say you, because that Christ is called the elect of God, I answer in this your argument, ye use two fallaces, that is falls and deceitful apperances' of a truth, which are but manifest lies. The former, you change the terms, putting elect and reprobate in the minor and in the conclusion, where we put election and reprobation in the Mayor, which is not lawful in a good argument. for where we say (as ye affirm) where so ever is Election, there must also reprobation be ye infer, Christ is the elect of God, Ergo there must be more Christ's, of whom some must be reprobate. Who seeth not here the changing of the terms. Let your argument proceed in order, and conclude what ye list. Where so ever is election there must also be reprobation. And add if ye list, of the same kind, but Christ is election (thus must you proceed if that ye keep the form of a good argument). Prove your Minor and conclude what ye please. Thus doth your vain and foolish sophistry compel me to trouble the simple with the terms of the arts, which most unwillingly I do. The second falla● and deceat, lieth in the ambiguity and doubtful understanding of this patch (which ye craftily forge) of the same kind, for if we had so spoken or written, yet is our understanding far other than you imagine. That is we apply not these words of the same kind to the particularity of persons, and of every especial man that is elect, but to the hole mass, as by saint Paul we are taught. To make the matter more sensible I will lay myself for exempell, for I will not, nor dare not so irreverently jest which the majesty of my God, and of his dear son Christ jesus as ye do. You reason against us, as that we did understand your addition of the same kind of every particular person a part, as thus: I john knoxe do constantly believe, that as of mercy and free grace it hath pleased the goodness of my God, in time to call me to his knowledge, and so to remove my blindness and unbelief that in a part I see his fatherly love towards me in Christ jesus his Son, so do I most certainly believe that in the same Christ jesus, of free grace he did elect and choose me to lief everlasting before the foundation of the world was laid. Ergo by your understanding I must also believe that there is another john knoxe of the same kind, having the same substance with the same qualiteis, proprieties and conditions that I have, that was reprobated and so must be damned. Who seeth not here your vanity, yea your most malicious cavillation, who labour to impute upon us that which did never enter into our hearts. We with all reverence and fear believe and teach that God of one mass that is of Adam, hath prepared some vessels of mercy, honour, and glory, and some he hath prepared to wrath and destruction. To the vessels of his mercy in his eternal counsel before all times, he did appoint a head to reule, and give lief to his elect, that is Christ jesus our Lord, whom he would in time to be made like unto his brethren in all things sin except. Who in respect of his humane nature is called his servant, the just seed of David, and the elect in whom his soul is well compleased. Because as I have said, he is appointed only head to give lief to the body, without whom there is neither election, salvation, nor lief to man nor to Angel. And so in respect of his humanity from the which he in no wies can be separated he is called the elect. Conclude now if you can. there must be more Christ's of whom some must be reprobate I will make a more sure and more true conclusion, than you do, which is this: God of one mass hath elected some men to lief in Christ jesus, Ergò there was left of the sa●me mass an other sort, under an other head the devil, who is the father of lies and of all such as continue in blasphemy against God. Gather now what absurdities ye ca● THE ADVERSARY. another argument gather they forth of god's prescience, The fifteenth section. but I will first borrow an argument of them concerning the prescience of God. And then God willing I shall answer to theirs. Paul saith: Those which God knew before, he also ordained them before that they should be like fashioned unto the shape of his Son, that he might be the first begotten Son among many brethren, The 2. argument. but God knew all men before, Rom. 8. Ergo be ordained all men before, Read the scriptures better & be ashamed of your argument. that they should be Christ's brethren like fashioned unto him. The first part of my argument is Paul's saying, The second ye can not deny, and the conclusion is formally inferred of both the parts. Labour either to solute my argument without any ambiguity whereby ye may satisfy others, or else forsaik the error which it improveth. ANSWER. Because ye desire your argument to be soluted at your own request I will take some pain: God grant it may profit. Your argument containeth in itself the fallax which is called of Equivocation, for this word knowledge or this sentence: whom God did for know in the words of Paul, which be in your Mayor or first propositinon, do not signify the self same thing that these words, but God knew all men before, which you put in your minor or second proposition. And so because that there be four terms which in the schools be called scopae dissolutae, the argument is deceitful and false, although the form appear good. Thus I trust in your own conscience you think your argument fully and rightly soluted. but yet that neither ve shall have occasion to bark again, neither yet that the simple reader shall take pain to read these vain arguments without all fruit, I will add somewhat more, and will plainly prove my solution to be good. In the first proposition I say, where saint Paul saith, whom God for● knew, Rom. 9 the same he before ordained: that the holy Ghost meaneth of that fore knowledge of God which is joy ●ed with his eternal love, which before all times he did ●ear to his elect, as of the words of Christ jesus and of the words of the same Apostle in divers places before is declared. And with this fore knowledge which is joined with his love by the which his elect were appointed to be made like fashioned to their head Christ jesus, The difference of good fore knowledge. did never God foreknow nor foresee Cain, judas, nor none other reprobate to appertain to him. I do not deny but that as all things ever were present before the eyes of his Majesty, so did he both foreknow, foresee, and before ordain the end of all creatures: but otherwise I say doth God foreknow his elect, of whom S. Paul only speaketh. If it doth offend you that I affirm that God did never foreknow thou reprobate as he did his elect: I have my assurance of Christ jesus, of his own plain words, saying, to the falls prophets I never knew you, depart from me ye workers of iniquity. Note well that Christ affirmeth that he never knew the false prophets, no not even when they did prophecy, cast out devils, and did many wondrous things in the name of Christ If he had said I know you not, ye might have shifted with this your accustomed cavillation, that was by reason of their sins, which after they committed, but he leaving no doubt saith I never knew you, and therefore I fear not to affirm that God did never foreknow judas, Matth. 7. as that he knew Peter. Consider and be sober. Ye go forward to our argument and say. THE ADVERSARY. There argument concerning gods preascience is this. The six tenth section. God knoweth all things before they be doné, god's prescience or forknowledge is infallible, Ergo of necessity all things must come to pass as they do: which being granted, they which perish, of necessity they do perish. If of necessity than is it by gods ordinance, because so he willeth and so he hath ordained: This argument seemeth probable at the first blush. But I pray the reader to mark first how these men put no difference betwixt the foreknowledge of God and his will. for they suppose, that what so ever God foreseeth he also willeth, but there supposition is untrue. for god foreseeth the death of the sinner, and yet he will not the death of the sinner, bu● rather that he repent and live. Christ did foresee the destruction of jerusalem, and yet did he not will it, for he wept and be walled it, God did foresee the fall and final destruction of the Israelites, and yet would he not it. As he witnesseth himself: saying wherefore willye die, Ezech. 18 O ye house of Israel, seeing I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth. ANSWER. What we do teach of god's prescience, of his providence and predestination, and how that his omnipotent will which we fear not to affirm to be the necessity of all things doth differ from stoical necessity, with the which ye burden us, we have before declared, and therefore remitting the reader to the same place: I say to you. that if ye imagine in God a prescience, Read the first section. and foreknowledge, which is idle and separated from his will, that then ye fall into the blasphemy of Epicurus: and if that you say (as plainly ye do) that he foreseeth things to come, which he will not, that then ye deny the omnipotency of his power. Choose which you will, the verity will convince you. To prove that he foreseeth and knoweth many things to come, which he will not, ye adduce the place of Ezechiel, where God affirmeth, that God will not the death of a sinner, The weeping of Christ upon jerusalem, and the compleint of God against the house of Israel. To which I shortly answer at this time because that after we must have to do with the same matter, that simply (that is having no further respect but to punishment only) God will neither the death of the sinner, neither yet the destruction of jerusalem, nor of the house of Israel, but in respect of his glory to be showed in their just punishment, and of his verity and sentence to be approved, always stable and constant, why that God shall not will both the death, and destruction to come upon the stubborn inobedient, I see neither absurdity to follow neither scripture repugning: but after in answering to your distinction which ye make the betwext gods will and his permission I purpose to entreat this matter more largely. You proceed saying. THE ADVERSARY. Secondly these men think that god's foreknowledge causeth all things to come to pass of necessity, The 17. Section which is also untrue. for knowledge of things past, of things present, and of things to come dependeth of the thing that is known, and not the thing of knowledge. As I know that Paul before he was called, he was a persecuter of Christ's Church, O proud lucifer that darest compare thy knowledledge to the prescience of God but Paul was not a persecuter because I knew it, but I knew it because he was a persecuter: I know that in the month of july shall be harvest, yet shall not harvest be, because I know so, but I know it because it shall be. Likwese God did know that I should write this day, but yet did he not compel me to write: for I had liberty either to write or not to write, not because he knew that I should write, therefore did I write, but because I was to write, therefore knew he that I should write. Thus ye may see how they do err which affirm that god's foreknowledge causeth all things to come to pass of necessity. for as God doth foresee that men will do 〈◊〉 so doth he also foresee that they may leave the evil undone, and as God foreseeth that men will not do well, so he foreseeth that they be not compelled thereto, but might do well if they list. As for example, Christ could and might have obtained more than twelve legions of Angels, and yet God did know that he should not obtain them: also God did know that Christ should not pray for twelve legions of Angels, and yet he might have prayed as he saith himself. Of this it is manifest that notwithstanding the for knowledge of God things may come to pass otherwiese than they do. wherefore it followeth that God's foreknowledge causeth no necessity. Pilate had power to crucify Christ, or to let him go: which Christ denied not, but rather affirmed it saying he had that power srome above, and although Pilate, did not deliver Christ, notwithstanding he might have done it. Ananias sold his possession, and yet he might have not sold it: he brought a part of the price thereof to the Apostles, which he might have retained to him. as Peter witnesseth that the price thereof was in his own power, Many such other exemples may I bring forth whereby it should appear manifest that notwithstanding the fore knowledge of God, things be done which might not be done, and things be not done, which might be done. ANSWER. Albeit that ye be so blinded that ye can put no difference betwixt the foreknowledge, To the 1. will, and power of God, which all are perfect in himself, as is his eternal God head, and the foreknowledge, will, and power of man or creatures which he imperfect and weak by reason of man's corruption, yet I doubt n●t but that all reasonable men shall sodanly espy your vanity, who dare be so bold as to affirm that because your knowledge was not the cause that Paul was a persecutor, that therefore the foreknowledge of God, his eternal purpose counsel and will which we, never separate, did no more in that matter, than did your bare knowledge. by the same reason ye may conclude that God wrought no more with Paul in preaching to the Gentiles, them did your knowledge, for the reason is a like strong. But he himself, will not be so unthankful, but will confess that from his mother's womb he set him a part, Galat. 1. and called him by his grace to the end that he might reveal his Son Christ jesus by him: 1 Tim. 1 for the which he unfeignedly thanked the goodness of God, who made him strong in Christ jesus to be faithful in that office, God worketh both in his elect, and in the reprobate but in diu●rse manner. and ministery, I am not ignorant that other ways doth God work in the hearts of his elect, the work of their salvation, and other ways in the reprobate. for in the hearts of his elect effectually and by the power of his spirit doth he so work in them the motions that be agreeable to his holy commandments, that they strive and contend against their natural corruption: but justly leaving the reprobate to themselves and to sathan their father, they willingly follow without all violence or compulsion of god's part, iniquity and sin: and so finally the way of perdition to the which ●hey naturally are inclined. But yet if any will affirm that therefore gods fore knowledge doth but Idly behold that they will do, and that in his eternal purpose, counsel and will, he will one thing, and they will an other, so that their will prevail against his, he shall not escap the crime of horrible blasphemy, as before I have said, and here after also must more largely entreat. Of your knowledge what shall come in julie and of your liberty to write I only answer this: that albeit God did not compel you to write, for there to your wicked will was bend: yet because he foreknew, and also hath fore spoken that of necessity it was, that heresies should come, that the elect might be tried, it was not altogether against his will, that ye should manifest yourself, and that we should patiently suffer your unjust accusations. Your wrestling and wrangling with the words of our master Christ jesus to Peter, is so far from the purpose of the holy Ghost, that I am partly ashamed in your behalf. Doth Christ in that place absolutely affirm, that either he might pray for xii legions of Angels, either yet that his Father would or might give them to him then, to deliver him? or doth he not rather by this interrogation: believest thou not that I may pray my Father? rebuke the bold and foolish enterprise of Peter, who rashly pretended to defend by his sword him whom the Father had given into the hands of his enemies, of determined purpose to die for our sins? and so did he conclude contrary to your mind; to wit, that impossible it was that either he should pray for any Angels, to deliver him at that time, either ●et that his Father should send any for that purpose: for because it was other ways determined in his eternal and immutable counsel, as 〈◊〉 plain words he witnesseth saying: But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled in which it is fore spoken, that so it behoveth to be. In the words of Pilate and in Christ's answer ye show the like ignorance as before. To the ●. for there upon ye conclude what Pilate might have done, and yet did not the same, where as the purpose of Christ jesus was to reprove the proode arrogancy of the vain man, who did usurp to himself authority, rendering unto God neither honour nor glory, but boasting himself of his power, he thought all things lawful, which it pleased him to do. Against which pride and unjust unthankfulness, Christ absolutely denieth that he should have had any power over him, except it had been given to him from above. By which words and sentence he did put him in mind that he should make accounts, what judgement he pronounced, not to the Emperor only, but to the sovereign God who as he hath appointed and established autoriteis, so shall he severely require of their hands an account, if under his name they use tyranny or pronounce falls judgement. This I doubt not is the true and simple meaning of the text, and not as ye ignorantly or else maliciously collect, that Christ affirmed that Pilate had power not to adjudge him to be crucified, but to deliver him. Read the prayer of the Apostles. Act. 4. The holy Ghost affirmeth the direct contrary saying: of a truth in this city have convened against thy holy Son whom thou hast anointed, Herode and Pontius Pilate with the gentiles and the people of Israel to do what so ever thy hand and counsel have before decreed to be done. Now let the indifferent reader judge which of our collections and conclusions is most strongly proved. Ye affirm that Pilate had power not to crucify Christ: and I say that he was appointed in the immutable counsel of God to be one of the wicked instruments, by whom the Son of God should innocently suffer the death of the cross. But how little doth this relieve the wilful sin of Pilate shall after be declared. Even such liberty and power, What power Ananias had of his land as ye had to write these former and subsequent blasphemies, had Ananias of his land, and money received for the same. For as you being infected with heresy, malice, and envy, did willingly write and utter your vennom: so he being avaricious and a dissembling hypocrite did of a fire, consenting heart reserve a portion to himself, offering a part to the Church of God, with protestation that it was the hole some, thinking thereby to have obtained the commendation and praise which hypocrites deserve not. Act. 5. But what was gods purpose, counsel, and will in that behalf, is evident, to wit that we shall abhor and avoid hypocrisy, that we shall not abuse the simplicity of our brethren, neither yet make protestation of that thing before men, affirming that to be true which our own conscience knoweth to be falls. But now to the rest. THE ADVERSARY. Here I think it is good to answer to their objections, The eighteen section. which they collect of Peter's denying of his master. If these things, which God foreseeth to come to pass, say they, may be left undone. then notwithstanding that Christ did foresee that Peter should deny him, Peter might yet have not denied him. I answer that notwithstanding Christ did foresee that Peter should deny him yet was not Peter compelled thereto, but might have not denied Christ (well say they) then should Christ have been a liar for he said that Peter should deny him: I answer that notwithstanding that Christ so said▪ yet might Peter have not denied him and Christ notwithstanding should have been no liar, the like example have we in the first book of Samuel, David asked counsel at the Lord, 1. Re. 23. if Saul would come to Keyla, and the Lord said he will come down: then said David will the men of keyla deliver me and the men that are with me into the hands of Saul: And the Lord said they will betray you. Then David with his men departed from key lafoy, which when Saul heard he left of from his enterprise and come not to Keyla. Here we see that neither gods foreknowledge which is also conform to his saying, neither yet his prophecyeing did take liberty from Saul, from the men of keyla, neither from David and his mē, neither did Saul come to keyla, neither the men of keyla betrayed David as the Lord had spoken, And David had liberty with his men to avoid the danger notwithstanding God had spoken, it should come to pass, so all they had liberty yea even after God had pronounced what should be done. In so much that their doings were plain contrary to the prophecy of God, And yet was God true. for he did foresee that if David did not depart from keyla, using such liberty as God had given him, he with his men should be betrayed into the hands of Saul, Whence have ye your assurance. and I pray you might not Peter like wise using his liberty avoid the bushopps house, and so never been tempted to deny Christ? Yes I am sure as well as David avoided Keyla. ANSWER. If you be able to prove that David stood in also hot a contention against God, To the 1. 2. & 3. as Peter did against his master Christ jesus: that David affirmed the expressed contrary to that which God had pronounced, and that God had appointed the certain time aswell when Saul should come as when the men of keyla should betrey him, than might ye have had some colour to have compared and matched the denial of Peter with the flying of David. But if Peter's denial was with a double affirmation pronounced by the mowth of Christ jesus: and if the sentence of God both touching the coming of Saul and touching the unthankfulness of the men of keyla, was conditional, ye be more thē bold that take vpō you to join together things so diverse. Christ's words to Peter were neither spoken nor meant under any condition, but were pronounced as followeth. Matt. 26. verily, verily I say unto thee, that the cock shall not crow till thou shall deny me thrice. john. 13. Which words leave neither liberty, freedom nor power to Peter to provide for himself, that this sentence should not be true, but the words and answers spoken to David were according to his questions, which were first, if that brute of saul's coming was true, and if the men of keyla, to whom he had shown such thankfulness of late before, should become so ingrate that they should betrey him into the hands of Saule● And God did answer that Saul should come down, and that the citizens of keyla should betray him. But I trust ye will not be so impudent as to deny, but that both these affirmations were spoken conditionally to assure David of his doubles, and to give him advertisement that neither he should abide the hazard of saul's coming, neither yet cómit himself and his men of war to the fidelity of those that were in keyla. Be judges now your selves how far different be the words spoken to Peter, and the words spoken to David. Ye proceed. THE ADVERSARY. But now to return to our purpose. The nyntenth section. if I shall grant that all things of mere necessity must come to pass according to the prescience and fore knowledge of God, then had Adam afore the transgression no free will, but of mere necessity did he offend, forasmuch as God did foresee his fall. Then had Christ no fire will: for God did foresee all that Christ was to do, then is God bound himself and hath no liberty to do nor leave undone that which he doth, forasmuch as he foreseeth all his own works. This belike you will make a goodly wise God. God save us from such dangerous and horrible errors, and give us steadfast and perfect faith to believe not only that he is but also that he is an omnipotent God. Which freely after his own good pleasure doth and may do, or leave undone what so ever pleaseth him. ANSWER. Before I answer to the absurdities, To the 1. which of our doctrine ye collect, I must in few words put you in mind, that very foolishly ye join the fire will of Adame with the free will of Christ jesus, Difference betwixt the liberty of Christ's will, and the freedom of Adam's will. and with the liberty of God. for Adam's will was never so free but that it might (as that it did) con to thraldom, which weakness you be never able to prove at any time to have been in Christ's will. further the will of Adam was always under the empire and threatening of a law, to which subjection I think ye will not bring God. But now to your absurdities. If (say you) I shall grant that all things of mere necessity must come to pass according to the prescience and foreknowledge of God, then had Adam afore his transgression no free will, your illation, or consequence is false. for the fore knowledge and prescience of God did neither take away free will from Adam, neither yet did compel it by any violence, but did use it as an ordinary mean, by the which his eternal counsel and purpose should take effect. but for the better understanding hereof, we must advert and note that which before we have touched, and promised after more largely to entreat the same. to wit that god's prescience and foreknowledge is not to be separated from his will and decree, God's prescience is not to be separated from his will. For none otherwies doth God foresee things to come to pass but according as he himself hath in his eternal counsel decreed the● same. for as it appertaineth to his wisdom to foreknow and foresee all things that are to come, so doth it appertain to his power to moderate and reule all things according to his own will: neither yet herefor doth it follow, that his foreknowledge prescience, will or power, doth take away the fire will of his creatures, but in all wisdom and justice, (how ever the contrary appear to our corrupted judgements) he useth them, as best it pleaseth his wisdom to bring to pass in time, that which before all time he had decreed. To the which purpose and end, they (I mean the creatures and their wills) what so ever they purpose to the contrary, or how ignorantly that ever they work it nevertheless do volontarely, and as it were of a natural motion incline and bow to that end to the which they are created. To make the matter more plain, let us take the creation and fall of Adam with the creatures that served in the same, for example. For what chief end did God create all things (of Solomon and Paul we have before declared) to wit for his own glory to be showed: the glory I say of the riches of his mercy towards the vessels of mercy, Rom. 9 and the glory of his justice and most just judgements towards the vessels of wraith. prover. 16. And that this eternal counsel of God should take effect as he had purposed, man was created righteous, wise, just and good, having free will, neither subject to the thraldom of sin, nor of sathan at the first creation: but suddenly cometh sathan enemy to God, and to man, his good creature, and first powered in vennom into the heart of the woman, which afterward she poureth into the heart of Adame: to the which both the one and the other, without all violence used of god's part, doth willingly consent: and so conspiring with the serpent do accuse God of a lie, do fully consent to vendicat or challenge to themselves the power of the God head of mind a●nd purpose (so far as in them lay) to thrust down, and depose him from his eternal throne. Here we see how the creatures and their wills without compulsion, do serve gods purpose and counsel. for sathan was neither sent nor commanded of God to tempt man: but of malice and hatred did most willingly and greedily run to the same: the will of man being free before, was not by God violently compelled to obey sathan: but man of free will did consent to sathan and conspire against God. And yet was the fall of man not only foreseen and foreknown of God, but also before decreed for the manifestation of his glory. Let us yet take an other exemple that the matter may be more evident. The death of Christ jesus for man's redemption, was decreed in the eternal counsel of God before the foundations of the world were laid as we were elected in him, and as he was the lamb killed from the beginning, which death also was decreed in the same counsel of God to be in a certain time appointed: And that so certainly that neither could the malice of any creature prevent the hour appointed of God thereto: neither yet could any policy or chance impede or transfer the same to any other tyme. For how oft Christ was afore assaulted, the Evangelists do witness: But always his answer was: my hour is not yet come. And what impediments did occur immediately before his death, is also evident. The feast of Easter was instant, the fame of Christ was great, the favour of the people, with public voices was declared, and the counsels of the high priests and seniors had decreed that to avoid sedition his death should be delayed, till after that feast: But all these were shortly overthrown, and Christ did suffer in the very time appointed as he before had forespoken. But now to the instruments which serve in this matter, and whether they were compelled by God or not. judas we know was not one of the least: and what moved him, the holy Ghost doth witness, to wit his avariciousnes. The scribes, Phariseis, Priests and Seniors and people, led, some of malice and envy, some to gratify their rulers, and altogether of set purpose to crucify Christ, do consent with judas. Pilate albeit he long refused and by divers means studied to deliver Christ, yet in the end for fear of displeasure, as ●well of the priests and people, as of the Emperor, he willingly without all compulsion of god's part, pronounced an unjust sentence of death against Christ jesus which his soldiers also most willingly did execute. This I say we see that the creatures and their wills without all compulsion do serve gods counsel and purpose. Here I know that ye think that either I writ against myself or else that I conclude a great absurdity. for if I say that God did nothing but foresee these things and so permitted them (as after you speak) to follow their own train, that he worketh no more, but as a simple beholder of a tragedy, then do I agree with you and if I do say (as in very deed I do understand and affirm) that the eternal counsel and purpose of God did so reule in all these things, that rather they did serve to god's purpose and most just will, then fulfil their most wicked wills: then will you cry blasphemy, and say that I deliver the devil, Adam, and all the wicked from sin, of the which I make God to be author. To the first I have answered before, that as I separate not gods foreknowledge from his counsel, so do I affirm that he worketh all in all things according to the purpose of the same his good will: and yet that he useth no violence, neither in compelling his creatures, neither constreining their wills by any external force, neither yet taking their wills from them: but in all wisdom and justice, using them as he knoweth most expedient for the manifestation of his glory, without any violence I say done to their wills. When violence is doen to the will of a creature. For violence is done to the will of a creature, when it willeth one thing, and yet by force, by tyranny or by a greater power it is compelled to do the things which it would not: as if a pudique and honest matron or chaste virgin should be deprehended alone by a wicked and filthy man, who with violence and force (though the will of the woman did plainly repine) did deflower and corrupt her. This is violence done to will and she of necessity was compelled to suffer that ignominy and shame, which nevertheless she most abhorred. Do we say that God did (or doth) any such violence to his creatures? Did he compel sathan to tempt the woman when his will was contrary thereto? Did the will of Adame resist the temptation of the woman and did he so hate and abhor to eat of that fruit, that it behoved God to compel his will repugning thereto, to eat of it, and so to break his commandments? or did he not rather willingly hear and obey the voice of his wife? Consider I beseech you how plainly we put difference betwixt violence, which you call mere necessity, and gods secret counsel and eternal purpose. But yet ye cry, wherein then did man offend? who can resist the will of God? why doth he complein: The grud geing of the reprobat. seeing that his counsel and purpose by such means is brought to pass? Do ye not understand that these were the furious cries of those to whom saint Paul imposeth silence, with this sentence: Rom. 9 O man what art thou that darest reason against God etc. But lest that ye complein (as your common custom is) of our obscurity and dark speaking, I will even in one or two words declare why the creatures offend even when they serve most effectually to god's purpose. Why creatures offend whe● they most serve gods counsel To wit because that they neither have the glory of God in their actions before their eyes, neither yet mind they to serve, nor obey gods purpose and wil Satan in tempting man studied nothing to promote gods glory: Man in obeying the temptation looked not to the counsel of God: judas, Ananias, Pilate, the soldiers, and the rest had nothing les in mind than man's redemption to be performed by their counsels, and wicked works. And therefore, of god's justice were they every one reputed sinners, yea and some of them reprobated for ever. if these reasons do not satisfy you, yet shall they be a testimony what is our doctrine: and as I trust shall also be a reasonable contentation to the godly and simple reader. More would I have spoke● in the same matter, and so to have put end unto it at once: but because that after, by the reason of your most unjust accusations, I willbe compelled to have to do with you again, I abide opportunity. Now to your reasons: Man's will I say in the self remained free, notwithstanding that God in his eternal counsel had decreed his fall, and that because no violence, as before is declared, was done unto it. The will of our master and Saviour Christ jesus, notwithstanding the immutable decree of his death, appointed to be at a certain time, was so free that albeit, the power of nature might have given unto him more years of lief: and also that the humane nature did abhor the cruel and ignominious death, yet did he subject both his will and the power of nature, unto the will of his heavenly Father, as he doth witness, saying: Not that I will (father) but let that be done which thou willest. Luk. 22. Wonder it is that ye can not see how gods will can remain in liberty, except that he abide in suspense or doubt, and so daily and hourly change his purpose and counsel, God's will is free although it change not as occasion is offered by men's doings. as occasion is offered unto him, by men and by their actions. If this be to make God bound and to take from him liberty, to affirm that as he is infinite in wisdom, infinite in goodness, infinite in justice, and infinite in power: so doth he most constantly, most freely, most justly and most wisely bring that to pass, which in his eternal counsel he hath determined. If this (I say) be to take from God freedom, wisdom and liberty, as ye do rail, I must confess myself a transgressor. But if your cogitations and foolish conclusions of his eternal God head be (as alas too manifestly ye declare yourselves) so profane, so carnal, and so wicked, that long you abiding in the same, can not escaip gods just vengeance. Repent before that in his anger he arrest and declare that your justice, owher of so much ye brag, is manifest blasphemy against his dear Son Christ jesus. God the father of our Lord jesus Christ preserve his small flock, from your pestilent vennom, and most dangerous heresies, and stop your blasphemous mouths, that thus dare ieaste upon God, as if he were one of your companions saying, Then is he a goodly wise God, Then is God bound himself etc. THE ADVERSARY. The third argument gather they upon that which is written to the Romans the ninth chapter afore the children were borne that the purpose of God by election nught 〈◊〉, The 20 Section it was said, the elder shall serve the youngers as it is written, Rom. 9 jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated for the true understanding of this scripture, we must know first that these words, The elder shall s●rue the younger, are not spoken of jacob and Esau (for as concerning the flesh, Esau did never serve jacob) but they are spoken of two nations which were to come of them, as the Lord said to R●becca, Not two men but two nations are in thy belly: and these words afore the children were born, are not to be referred to the sentence which followeth, jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. for there was no such thing spoken afore their birth (as thou may plainly see in Genesis) but that was spoken many years after by the Prophet Malachi, Not of jacob and Esau, but of two nations, of the Israelites and Edomites, as the Prophet Malachi Malach. ● expoundeth, which we may well understand of the true Church and of the malignant church: if that had been spoken afore their birth, than had the Lord not said, jacob I have loved and Esau I have hated in the preterite tense, but jacob shall I love and Esau shall I hate, in the future tense. As in the other sentence he saith, the elder shall serve the younger, and not the elder hath served the younger. Now the Lord loved jacob of his own bountiful goodness and fregrace, Esau he hated because of his wickedness, for the Lord abhorred all wicked doers. As Moses saith it is not for thy righteousness sake, or for thy right heart that thou goest to possess their land, but for the wickedness of these nations, the Lord thy God doth cast them out before thee, even to perform the word which the Lord thy God swore unto thy father's Abraham Isaak and jacob. Here we see how that the Israelites receive the land of promise, not for their own righteousness saik, but only by the bountesull goodness of God. Again the Canaanites are cast out of the same land not because it was gods pleasure, or that he delighted in their fall but for their abominations which they committed against God, so that that jacob is beloved, it cometh of the free grace, and goodness of God. and that Esau is hated, it cometh of his own evil deserving, conform to the saying of the Lord, Thy destruction O Israel is of thyself, and thy health cometh of me. ANSWER. Your cold and unsavoury exposition which To the 1. ye (following the profane subtility of Castalio) make upon the words of the Apostle written in the ninth chapter to the Rom. is neither able to justify your error, neither yet to improve the doctrine, which vpō the same we collect and gather, which is this: That as God by his free benediction separated the people of Israel from all nations of the earth, so did his free election make difference betwixt the men of the same people of whom he did freely choose some to salvation, Themynd of the Apostle in the 9 chapit. to the Romans concerning jacob and Esaw. and did appoint others, to eternal condemnation. secondarily, that of this his free Election there is none other cause, nor foundation, but his mere goodness, as also his mercy, which after the fall of Adame doth without all respect, had to their works receive and embrace whom it pleaseth him. Thirdly that God in this his free election is bound to no necessity to offer the same to all indifferently, but contrariwise he passed by such as it pleaseth him, and whom it pleaseth him he receiveth. These propositions (I say) are so evident in Paul's words that they never can be moved by your malicious and ignorant wresting of the text: for in every one of Paul's sentences, he striveth directly against your error. for where he saith: Rebecca conceived of one, that is of our father Isaak, he secludeth all cause that might have been by accidents, which come in time, either in the father or in the mother: and in these words when the chidlrens were not yet born, and had neither done good nor evil, he secludeth all respects that can be alleged to have been in the children. But where he saith, that the purpose of God might abide according to election, not of works, but of the caller etc., is plainly denied merits, dignity, or works to come, to be any cause of gods free election. For if he would have persuaded men to have believed that God had elected some in respect of their good works to come, and had rejected others for their evil works only, which he foresaw that they should do: Paul had not so vehemently urged these terms and sentences: That the purpose of God might abide according to election, not of works etc. but he should simply have said. God hath chosen some in respect of their good works, which he foresaw they should do, which therefore he would reward first with his election, and after with his kingdom. But the plain contrary way to this, we see the Apostle useth, pulling man altogether from contemplation of himself, to God, to his free mercy, to his free grace, and eternal purpose, and also to his most deep and profound judgements. Imagine what shift so ever ye can, ye shall never be able to avoid this plain simplicity of the Apostle. With what face can ye deny, To the ●. that these words, the elder shall serve the younger, are not spoken of jacob and Esau, seeing that the Apostle in plain words doth affirm that they were spoken and meant of the two children, before they were born? He saith not before the two nations were born, but before the children were born. Your reason is because as concerning the flesh Esau did never serve jacob, I answer neither yet did God say: the elder shall serve the yonget in the flesh: but simply did pronounce: The elder shall serve the younger. But well do ye declare what is your understanding of dominion and servitude, be it in flesh, or be it in spirit. Was it no kind of servitude I pray you yea even in the fl●she, Esaw some manner of way served jacob in the flesh. that Esau was compelled to beg po●age at jacob, and for the same to sell all title of his birthright? was it no thraldom, that with crying owling, and furious rores, he was compelled to beg the benediction, which jacob had gotten, and yet could not obtain it? Did not his heart feel subjection when he seeth his father so constant in preferring jacob to him, that by no means he would retreat or call back one word. We do not deny but the diversity was also established betwixt the two nations: but that the heads should be secluded, that are ye never able to prove. But rather the battle, which did begin in the mother's womb, was established, and confirmed by the oracle of God to continue betwixt the posterities of those two heads. Did Rebecca, and Isaak after he did se god's providence and will to be contrary to that which he had purposed (which was to give the benediction to Esau) did they, I say, understand that jacob had no part in that promise touching his own person? The words of Isaak do witness the contrary: for he saith, Gen. 27. I have established him lord over the etc. By the same reason which ye make I may prove that these words were not spoken of their posterities, for during longer time, then either did jacob or Esau live, the Edomites did not serve the Israelites in the flesh: which did only begin in the latter days of David, and did continue, 2. Reg. 8. to the days of joram (son of losaphat) when they departed from that obedience: neither yet were they ever after that, brought into subjection again. but be therefore● the oracles, and promises of God vain? Yea had they not their effect, both in the one people, and in the other, even when the one was in most miserable bondage: first in Egypt, and after in Babylon: and when the other was in greatest felicity to man's appearance? yet before God, was that sentence true: The elder shall serve the younger. For he had further respect, than the present estate, as the Apostle doth declare, that all the faithful patriarchs had. jacob would not have interchanged the comfort, which he received in his first journey, from his father's house, for all the worldly joy, Y● Esau possessed: for in se●g that scale or ladder, God fitting upon the head of it, the foot of it touching the earth, upon the which did Angels ascend and come down: and in hearing that most joy full and comfortable voice: I am the God of Abraham thy father & of Isaak: the land whereupon thou sleepest, I will give to thee, Gen. 28. and to thy seed etc. and lo I am with the and will keep the whether so ener thou goest, and will bring the again into this land. In seeing and hearing these things. I say, did jacob understand, that the benediction of God extended further than to temporal things, yea that rather it did extend to that union & conjunction, which was betwixt God and man in that blessed seed promised, then to the possession, of the land of Canaan. for the one did neither Abraham, Isaak, nor jacob possess in their lives, neither yet their posterity many years after: but the joy of the other, did all the elect feel, and see and did rejoice as Christ jesus doth witness, of our father Abraham. That these words jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated are not written in Genesis, neither yet are spoken of God unto Rebecca none of us denieth: but that which ye thereof infer, to wit that therefore they are not to be referred to that sentence, which Paul allegeth, before the children were borne, and yer they did either good or bad, proceedeth either of your blind ignorance, or else of your malicious despite, which against the free grace of God, ye have conceived, for establishing of your own justice. True it is, these words were spoken by Malachi the Prophet, after the reduction of the people from the captivity of Babylon. But when we have a little considered the scope and purpose of the Prophet, then shall we first consider whether he did unsterstand the love of God, and his hatred, to appertain to the two people's only, and not also to the two original heads. And after we shall see whether the mind and plain words of Paul will suffer and bear your interpretation or not. Shortly after, that the people of Israel, I mean, the tribes of juda, Benjamin, The place of the Prophet Malachi and I ●eui, were by the miraculous work of God, after the bondage of 70. years set at liberty and brought again to jerusalem, in which they did re-edify the temple, repair the walls, and begin to multiply, and so to grow to some strength within the city, and land: they fall to their old nature, I mean to be ungrate and unthankful unto God. the people were slothful: and the priests, who should have provoked the people to the remembrance of those great benefits, were become even like to the rest. The Lord therefore did raise up his Prophet Malachi (who was the last before Christ) sharply to rebuke and plainly to convict this horrible ingratitude of that unthankful nation, who so shamefully had forgotten those so great benefits recently bestowed upon them. And thus beginneth he his prophecy: I have loved you (saith the Lord) in which words he speaketh not of a common love which in preserving and feeding all creatures, is commo● to the reprobate. but of that love by the which he had sanctified and separated them from the rest of nations to have his glory manifested. But because they (as all ungrate persons do) did not consider wherein this his love towards them more than towards others did stand: he bringeth them to the fountein, demanding this question: was not Esau brother to jacob (saith the Lord) and nevertheless jacob have I loved and Esau I have hated, and this he proveth not only by the diversity of the two countries, which were giue● to their posterities, but also by that that God continually showed him self loving to jacob and to his posterity, reducing them again after long captivity, declaring himself as it were enemy to Edom, whose desolation he would never restore, but would destroy, that which they should go about to build. Let now the godly reader judge whether that the mind of the Prophet was to seclude jacob, in his person from the love of God, and Esau from his hatred: or that it was not rather to rebuke the unthankfulness of the people, who did not consider that undeserved love, which God did show to their first father, whiles he was yet in his mother's bosom. for where he saith, was not Esau brother to jacob, he would put them in mind that jacob had no prerogative above Esau, yea that the was inferior to him as concerning the law of nature, and therefore that he ought to have been subject unto him: but God of free grace did prefer the younger to the elder, which love and preferment he constantly did keep to his seed after him. This I am assured can no godly man deny to be the very meaning of the Prophet. True it is that he doth include both the peoples, the one loved, and the other hated. But what reason is it that the heads shall be secluded? seeing that the beginning of the diversity did first appear in them, and the Prophet plainly saith: jacob have I loved, and Esau have I hated. Now to the mind of the Apostle you say that these words: afore the children were born, are not to be referred to the sentence which followeth: jacob have I loved, Esau have I hated: and the cause ye add as we before have declared. I answer that the most just judgements of God are fearful, and your blindness ought to admonish all men to examine them selves with what conscience they go to entreat gods secret mysteries. If that sentence, before the children were born ought not to be referred to these words: jacob have I loved, and Esau have I hated, I pray you to what words ought they to be referred? Did the Apostle speak them at all adventure, without respect to any thing following? I trust ye will grant asmuch as God spoke, to wit that before the children were born God said, The elder shall serve the younger. and then I pray you answer whether ye think, that the preferment of jacob to Esau proceeded from love or from hatred? or if the subjection of Esau to his brother was not a declaration of god's hatred? If you deny, yet will the Prophet condemn you, as before we have proved, ye can not escaip with the solution which a writer defending free will giveth, which is this: That there mention is made only of temporal and carnal benediction, meant under the name of love, and of poverty with barrenness of ground understand by the name of hatred, which solution is so cold, that it perisheth in the self for I think no man to be so blind, but that he seeth the mind of the Apostle to be bend upon the spiritual benediction, as in his hole disputation is evident. But let it be that the corporal benediction (which we utterly exclude not, be there understand and meant, yet that neither helpeth him nor you. for where so ever gods established love is, there is lief, where so ever his established hatred is, there is death: but upon jacob and upon his seed (spiritual I mean) was established the love of God, as the Prophet affirmeth, and our Apostle most pro foundely allegeth: and upon Esau, and upon his posterity was established and confirmed the hatred: Ergo● upon him and them remained death. Consider now how that the Apostle after these words: The elder shall serve the younger, joineth this sentence: as it is written, jacob have I loved, but Esau I have hated. In which words the holy Ghost agreeth together the words of the Prophet, and the words of God spoken to Rebecca, and maketh the one to interpret the other. for where God saith, the elder shall serve, that expondeth the Prophet, God hated Esau: and where he pronounceth dominion to the younger, that the Prophet explaineth saying: jacob have I loved. And when did God thus love the one, and hate the other, pronouncing the one to be Lord and the other to be servant? While they were yet (saith he) in their mother's womb, and before they had either done good or bad. Deny now if ye can, that the former words ought not to be referred to the subsequentes. your malicious minds compel me often to repeat one thing. Your reasoning of the preterite and future tense, is so foolish, that it needeth no confutation. For we confess that God spoke not those words to Rebecca, but that the Prophet, Why the Apostle maketh neither mention of Abraham nor of Isaak, but of jacob, and of jacob being in his mother's womb. as is declared, spoke them after: by the which he sendeth them to the ancient love of God. which begun before that ever their father could know or serve God. In which is to be noted, that he maketh neither mention of A●raham nor of Isaak, but of jacob, and of jacob in his mother's womb, to pull down this pride, which ye with the Pelagians and Papists have conceived of your works, going before, and foreseen by God to follow in you. But the Prophet of God did so daunton the stout hearts of that his people (were they in other things never so wicked) that they did not allege, that any cause was either in their father, or in them, why that they, or he should be preferred to other nations, and specially to the Edomites, who descended from Esau in all things like to jacob, gods only grace excepted. I praise God that so far ye will confess of gods eternal truth, that it was not for their righteousness, that Israel received the inheritance, but only because God freely loved their fathers. But why so suddenly ye slide from the principal purpose, leaving Esau and his posterity, a●d do enter to speak, why the Canaanites were cast forth, ● se no just cause. for neither doth Moses, in the first oracle of God, neither the Prophet Malachi, in explaining the same, neither yet our Apostle in applying both those places to the spiritual benediction, lay the seed of jacob against the Cananires, but jacob is set against Esau, and the people descending from the one, against the people that descended from the other. The question there might justly have been demanded: what prerogative hath jacob above Esau? Moses the Prophet and the Apostle do answer, The grace of God only, made the difference betwixt jacob and Esau. assuredly none, except only grace, which made difrence betwixt them, whom nature in all things had made equal. for both were come of Abraham, both of one father, both of one mother, both conceived at once, both fostered under one climate, region influence of stars, and yet it was said. The elder shall serve the younger. We know that the Canaanites came of a cursed father, whom if Paul should have compared with the Israelites, they should have complained of injury done unto them● And his reasons had been easily dissolved. for if he had said, the election of God is free, and hath respect to no works, and had brought in the sede of Abraham elected, and the seed of Cham rejected and accursed, for probation of the same, they sodanly should and justly might have replied, Chammocked his father, and therefore was he and his posterity accursed, and so had God respect to works: But the Apostle looketh more circumspectly to so grave a matter, and therefore did choose such an example, as wherein, the wit nor reason of man can find no cause of inequality. Of this I thought good to put you and the readers in mind lest perchance ye should imagine, that as great cause of reprobation was found in Esau before he was born, as Moses layeth to the charge of the Canaanites. And so I perceive in a part ye do. for in the end and after ye have affirmed that the cananites were cast out of the land by reason of their wickedness, ye return to Esau (repenting yourselves I trust that so imprudentlie ye had slipped from one lineage to an other). And these words ye affirm, That Esau is hated, it cometh of his own evil deserving conform to the saying of the Lord: Thy destruction (● Israel) is of thyself, and thy health cometh of me. In which affirmation, An answer. and pretenced probation of the same I find no les negligence in you, then before I have shown and prouen: for as most impudently before ye confounded the sede of Abraham, who by gods own mowth was blessed, with the seed of Cham, who in expressed words was accursed: so here ye confound Israel elected of God to be his people in jacob, with Edom rejected from that honour in their father Esau, before that either the one did good or the other did evil. The words of the Prophet which ye bring to prove, The place of Hoseas by the anabaptists wrested is restored to the natural meaning. that Esau was hated for his evil deserving, were neither spoken to him nor to his posterity, but they were spoken to that people whom God had preferred to all nations of the earth, to whom he had shown his manifold graces, and to whom he had been salvation and help, even in their most desperate calamity. But then fore their defection from him and for their Idolatry committed, were become most afflicted and miserable, daily tending to further destruction. To these I say, and not to Esau nor yet to his posterity did God say: o Israel thou hast destroyed thyself, or o Israel it hath destroyed thee, for so is the hebrew text, for in me is thy health. In which words he repressed the grudging and the murmuring of the people, who in their misery did rather accuse God of cruelty than repent or acknowledge their sins, and Idolatry to be the cause of their ruin: as in Ezechiel well may be seen. to such God saith, Israel thou art in most extreme misery, thy honour is decayed, and the glory of thy former age is now turned to ignominy and shame. What is the cause? it lieth not in me. for as I am eternal and immutable, so is not my hand shortened this day, neither yet my power diminished, more than when I did deliver the from the bondage of Egypt. In me is thy health now, as, it was then, if that thy sins did not make separation betwixt the and me. Plain it is first that here no mention is made of Esau, nor Edom, but of Israel only, and secondarily that God speaketh nothing in this place, why he did first elect jacob, and reject Esau, but why it was that Israel which some times was honourable, and feared of all nations, was then become most miserable, and afflicted on all sides. Except that you be able to prove that Esau committed as manifest Idolatry before he was borne, and before that jacob was preferred unto him, as Israel did before they came to destruction, ye have proved nothing of your affirmation. further I say that if Esau was hated for his evil deserving, then must it needs follow that jacob was loved for his well deserving by the argument following of the nature of the contraries. But that directly repugneth to the words of Moses, Qui● contrariorum eadem e●● ratio. to the interpretation of all the Prophets and to the mind and strong reasons of the Apostle, who plainly deny works by past or to cum, to be any cause of gods free election. True it is we be elected in Christ jesus to be holy, and to walk in good works, which God hath prepared. But every reasonable man knoweth, what difference there is betwixt the cause and the effect. Election (in which I include the free grace and favour of God) is the fountain from which springeth faith, and faith is the mother of all good works. But what foolishness were it therefore to reason: My works are the cause of my faith; and my faith is the cause of my election. Thus gently I put you in mind with greater reverence and circumspection to interpret and apply the sacred word of God. Thus ye proceed THE ADVERSARY. Their fourth argument, The twenty one section. Hath not the potter power over the clay even of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour and an other unto dishonour of this they infer that God hath ordained and made some to salvation and some to destruction and damnation But for the more perfect understanding of this place afore thou go any further read the xviii chapter of leremie, and thow shalt perceive this to be the meaning. As the Potter hath the clay in his hand, so hath God all men in his power: and as the potter breaketh the vessel, wherein is found an incurable fault, so God destroyeth the man in whom there is found obstinate wickedness which can not be amended. It is not the meaning of this place that God without any just cause doth make any man to destruction. for as the Potter maketh no vessel to break, yet not withstanding he may, but he will not lose both his clay and his labour, but only breaketh such as will not frame to be good, notwithstanding he made them to be good. As every good artificer would his work were good, so God created no man to lose him, but only loseth them which will not be good whom he created to be good: as the Lord saith, I planted the a noble vine and a good root, whose seed is all faithful. Rom. 9 how art thou then turned into bitter, unfruitful, and strange grapes? God would all men were good, and that all men should be saved, forasmuch as he is good himself, and all that he maketh is good, But as the Potter maketh of the same clay, some vessels to serve at the table, some in the kitchen or in the privy: so God hath some men to be in the body of Christ, as eyes, ears, and hands, as Princes, Prophets, Apostles, some to be as feet and other secret parts as labourers, and other of the inferior sort, for whom he hath not bes●towed so many and so excellent gifts: yet mus●t thou understand that it is not all one thing to be made to be broken, and to be made to unhonestuses, Every vessel which is evil is broken, whether it be made to honest or dishonest uses: yea though it were made of gold. And as it appeareth plainly in jeremy where the Lord saith so, though Conias the son of joacim King of I●da were the signet of my right hand, yet will I pluk him of. and thereafter this man Conias shallbe like an image rob and torn in pieces: hath a man any thing appointed for a more honest use, thē his signet? yet seest thou that if it become nought, it shall be broken & destroyed. Again every good vessel whether it be made to honest or dishonest uses it is kept and not broken. Ask the Potter and he shall answer thee, ihat he will be loath to break any vessel, but if any chance to be nought, he showeth his power in breaking of it. Ask the husband man, and he shall answer the that he planted no fruit tre to be barren, but if it chance to be barren, he cutteth it down, and planteth an other in stead of it. Ask the Magistrate, and be shall answer thee, that it is not his will to kill any of his subjects, for he would that they were all good, but if any become a thief and murderer, he showeth his power even over him in killing him, Even so saith God, I will not the death of the sinner, but rather that he convert and live, I will not that any man be evil, and therefore I forbid all evil, but if any man contrary to my commandment and will, of his own fire chose and mind refufe the good which he might have accepted, and doth the evil which he might have left undone, then do I show my power over him, in that I ca●t him away like the shards of a naughty Pot which serveth to no good use. ANSWER. Why for the more perfect understanding of Paul's mind, any man should rather read the words of jeremy writrens in the xviii. chapter of his prophecy then the words written in xlviii. chapter of the Prophet Isaiah, I see no just cause. for plain it is that the Prophet Jeremy in that place hath no respect to gods eternal Election. he disputeth not why God hath appointed in his eternal counsel some to lief, and some to death, but retaineth himself within the limits and bounds of the matter, The place of ●●●ren●●. which thē he entreated. Which was to assure the jews that God would eiers them from that same land, which to Abraham he had promised and had given to his posterity, and yet would he preserve thē to be a people such as he thought good. This doctrine was strange, and to many incredible. for it appeareth to repugn to gods promise, who had pronounced that to Abrahā, and his seed he would give that land for ever. Much trouble ad contradiction (as may be seen) did the Prophet suffer for the teaching and affirming this former doctrine. And therefore it pleased the mercy and wisdom of God by divers means to strengthen and confirm him in the same. Amongst which this was one, Vt commanding him to go down to a potter's house, he promised to speak with him there. That is, to give unto him further knowledge and revelation of his will, who when he came, found the potter as is written making a clay pot upon his rote● and turning wheel. which Pot in his presence did break, but the Potter immediately gathering up the Pot sherdes, did fashion and for me it a new, and made it another vessel, even as best pleased him: And then came the word of the Lord upon the Prophet saying, may I not do unto you o house of Israel, even as this Potter doth. Behold ye are in my hand, o house of Israel● even ●as the clay ●is in the hand of the Potter. By which fact seen, and words after heard, was the Prophet more confirmed in that, which before he had taught. To wit, that God for just causes would destroy ad break down the estate and policy of that common wealth, and yet nevertheless would repair and build it up again to such an estate, as best pleased his wisdom, as the sequel did declare, for that great multitude corrupt with sin, he hrak down dispersing and scattering them amongst diverse nations, and yet after he did collect, & gather them together, and so made them a people of whom, the head of all justice, Christ jesus did spring. But what hath this to do with the eternal election of God by the which he hath elected some to lief everlasting, To prove this may be adduced the 31. Chap. of jeremy. whom our Apostle calleth vessels of mercy, and hath left others in their own corruption and perpetual condemnation. And so I say because that jeremy entreateth one thing, that is a temporal punishment and the mutation which shortly should follow in jerusalem, a●d the Apostle intreath an other as before is said, the one can be no exposition to the other. but rather the Apostle hath respect, or at least alludeth to the saying of Isaiah, which thus speaketh: woe to be to him that striveth with his maker, the vessel of clay with the Potter of clay, Isaiah. 45 Shall the clay say to his potter: what makest thou: In which words (as before we have more largely spoken) the Prophet, and the Apostle following his phrase, represseth the pride of man, who compared to God is much more inferior to his majesty, than clay compared to the Potter. For God hath created and made man when he was not, which thing the Potter did not to the clay, of which he maketh the diversity of pots. and therefore of right hath God more power over man, then hath the potter over clay. This I doubt not to be the mind of the holy Ghost, in both the places. In which similitude, is further to be considered, that as the Potter doth no injury to the clay, what form soever he giveth it (for the matter and substance of it, God doth Wrong to none of his creatures, how soever he maketh them. he doth not change) so doth not God wrong to the very reprobate, whom he prepareth to be vessels of wrath. for that are they of nature. Where that ye say, that it is not the meaning of this place, that God without all just causes doth make any man to destruction: none of us doth hold the contrary for we affirm that the causes of reprobation are most just, but yet we say, that they are incomprehensible to man. That ye give to God no greater power nor none other will, then to your good artificer, consider with yourself, how undiscreetly ye match his eternal God head (whose power is infinite, and whose determined will, no creature can resist) with creatures that be but impotent, unwise, a●d often dissapointed of their purpose and will. true it is that no artificer, willingly, would lose his clay and labour, but is compelled to break those that be faulty. But this proceedeth partly from his ignorance, who did not before know and see the fault which was in the matter, and partly of his impotency, who can not, at his will otherwies, remedy the faulty vessel, but only by breaking the same. But dare ye, or will ye impute upon God those imperfections? so ve seem to do, for this ye writ: So God created no man to lose him, but only loseth them, that would not be good, whom he created to be good, as the lord saith: I planted the a noble vine. The chief end of man's creation, Answer. we have before declared to be the glory of God, which if you can not see sh●ne in the just condemnation of the reprobate, accuse your blindness. That God created the reprobate, to the day of destruction, Solomon affirmeth, as often before is said. But that he was created, to be good, that will not the words of the Prophet, Another place of jeremy explained. which ye adduce prove. for in that place, there is no mention made of creation but of plantation, which is a th●g far different from creation. The substance which was before is planted, that by manuring, and travail of the planter, it may be better, but creation importeth the being of the substance, which before was not. And so the Prophet in this place, which ye allege to prove that God created all men to be good, meaneth no such thing, but only rebuketh the Israelites, who long after their creation were pla●ted by the hand of God a●d were continually watered by his Prophets, and yet did they bri●g forth no better fruit. How that God would all men were good, and also that all me should be saved, we shall God willing after speak. How that God remaining good for ever, ma his creature fell from his original goodness, I have before spoken, a●d therefore will not now trouble the reader with the repetition of the same. In the differece which ye make betwixt the vessels which the potter maketh, some to serve the table and some the kitchen, or privy, of which he breaketh none, but such as be faulty, ye utterly dissagre from the mind and plain words of the holy Gost. for S. Paul calleth not the vessels of honour, princes, or prophets, and Apostles, and the vessels of dishonour, the labourers and inferior sort of men, but the one he calleth the vessels of mercy, and the other he calleth the vessels of wrath. What S. Paul meaneth by vessels of honour and dishonour. The one he feareth not to affirm to be prepared and ordained to destruction, that the severe judgement of God against sin may appear in them: the other to be prepared to glory, that the riches of his mercy may be praised for ever. This plain simplicity will not the Apostle recant, neither yet thereof (God assisting us) will we be ashamed, how so ever ye rage and blaspheme the verity. And this I say that your difference betwixt honest and unhonest vessels, and betwixt those that shallbe broken, and not be broken, is altogether besides the purpose of the Apostle. And so of Conyas son of loacin ye can prove no more but that God would deprive him from his kingdom, and from that seat of David, in which unworthily he did reign. If he was the reprobate, them although he was king, yet was he the vessel of dishonour for these words, although he were the signet in my right hand, are not spoken to declare that in very deed he was the signet in the hand of God, but are spoken against the foolish presumption of hi●, a●d of the jews, which living most wickedly, did yet nevertheless brag, and boast that God could not leave the seat of David void: but that one of his seed must for ever sit on it. And this is evident, if the text be well marked. for where he saith although he were the signet, he sufficietly declareth, that so he was not, and so I say that those words prove nothing of your purpose. for first must ye prove that because he was a king, therefore he was a vessel of honour, in such sense, as S. Paul speaketh. And secondarily, ye must prove that he was elected to the lief everlasting because it is said, that albeit he were a signet, in the right hand of God, yet should he be plucked of: w●e by plain scriptures to do, will be more than hard for you, how so ever that ye brag, that ye will prove all your purpose by scriptures. Where ye sand us to ask of the potter, of the husband man, and of the Magistrate, if any of them would willingly break his vessel, plant a tre to be barren, or kill any of his subjects, we send you, as before to ask counsel at the plain scriptures whether ●in God there is not a greater knowledge, greater power, and a justice more perfect although it be incomprehensible to our dulsenses, than that their is in the potter, husband man, or Magistrate. How that God will not the death of the sinner, but rather that he may convert and live, we shall shortly God wiling after speak. And therefore omitting that which indigestly you heap together, I proceed to that which followeth. THE ADVERSARY. Where ye reply which that it lieth not in man's will or ronning, The 22 section. but in the mercy of God, I answer, by the same sentence that we may both will and run, which is contrary to your hole purpose and doctrine, and yet saith the Apostle, our salvation dependeth of the mercy of God, for it is his free gift. The Gentiles which for their, wickedness were reject of God, in vain should they either will or run without God extended his mercy towards them, as he doth now presently, Like as on the other side the jews which for their sins be now abject, in vain should they either will or run without it pleased God to extend his mercy over them, as he shall do after that the fullness of the Gentiles become in, as witnesseth Paul▪ Rom. 11. for there we must under stand that when it pleased God to offer us his mercy, yet without we both will and run, we shall not obtain the reward, notwithstanding neither for our willing or ronning, are we worthy to receive salvation. for it is the free gift of God, which he giveth to us only for his own mercies saik. God offered salvation to jerusalem not for the deserving, but of his mercy, yet obtained they not salvation, because they would neither will nor run. As Christ saith, how often would I have gathered thy children, as the hendoeth her chickens, and thou wouldest not, so the scribes and the Phariseis made the counsel of God towards them of none effect, for they despised it. God's will was to save them, but they would neither will nor run, but keep still their old pass so they perished. wherefore unto our salvation is required chief the mercy of God, God continue you i● this confession. as the only sufficient, and the efficient cause thereof, whereby we being unworthy and his enemies, be reconciled and received unto the fellowship of the saints. Secondly is required that we both will and run not as the cause, but rather as the effect an● fruit of our reconciliation, declaring ourselves to be thankful for the benefits which we have freely without our merits received, otherwies the kingdo● shallbe ●aken from us again, and given to such as shall bo●h will and run, bringing forth the fruits thereof. ANSWER. Your ancient father Pelagius, conjured enemy to the free grace of God, did brag and boast, as you do, that in man there was a will, and a running. But the probation of both is one, that is to say, your affirmation must suffice for authority. You boldly write, that of those words of the Apostle, neither it is of him that willeth, neither yet of him that runneth, but of God having mercy, it is plain that we both will and run. But how is this proved? your long discourse (in which it seemeth that ye have forgotten yourself) proveth no part of your purpose. for the question is not, what either the jew, or the gentle doth (Imean) after they have received the grace of God. For then we confess that they have (yet not of themselves) a will and study to walk in godliness: but the question is whether this will and study which now by grace, they have received was any cause of their election: the contrary whereof we have before proved. To the. 2. We do not imagine the faithful members of Christ's body to be stocks or stones insensible without will or study of godliness▪ but we affirm that it is God that worketh in us the good will, and the good thought. for of ourselves we are not sufficient to think one good thought. We further affirm, To the. 3. that except with all humility, the free grace offered with thanks giving be received, that they serve nothing to the salvation of the contemners. But therewith we add, that it is God only, who taketh away the stony and stubborn heart, Ezec. 11. 4 and giveth to us a fleshy heart. In which he by the power of his holy Spirit writeth his law, maketh us to walk in his ways, draweth us to his Son Christ jesus, giveth us into his protection. I mean as faith assureth us in our conscience and so we acknowledge God alone by Christ jesus his son to be the beginning, To the 5. the mids, and the end of our sanctification, godly lief, and salvation. I for my part do yet again praise God that his verity is of that strength, that sometimes it will compel the very enemies, to bear testimony to it. And I pray God to retain you in that mind, that unfeignedly, you may believe and confess, that what virtues or good motions that ever be in you, be the only effects or fruits as ye call them of your reconciliation, and neither cause of your election, nor yet of your justification. That jerusalem and the scribes refused grace, and therefore justly were condemned, we consent with you. but that ever it was the eternal counsel and will of God to give them life everlasting, that we constantly deny. Our reasons we have before alleged, and after will have occasion to repeat some again. And therefore we proceed. Thus ye writ. THE ADVERSARY. Here with great vehemency ye allege these words of Paul, The 23▪ section. who hath been able to resist his will, of which saying, ye infer that God without any cause known to us hath reprobated, and damned many, against which will, no man can resist. These words did Paul write because he did foresee, that of his former sainges some devilish disposed persons would take occasion to burden God with unrighteousness, as ye do, making him the author of evil: for ye say that God hath a secret will whereby he willeth the most part of the world to be condemned, which will, because it can not be resisted, therefore of mere necessity by the immutable decree of God, so many do perish. further ye this affirming God to be the cause of damnation only, because it so hath pleased him, ye cause many other to burst out and say: Scythe his will and pleasure no man is able to resist: let him lay it on himself. and not to us, if any sin be committed, and surely for my part were it not I abhor your horrible doctrine, wherewith ye cruelly affirm gods ordinance to be the cause of damnation. I would not meddle further in this matter, but with reverence behold the works of God. forasmuch as I see thanks be to God no work of God, wherein his mercy doth not clearly shine. But if your saying were true then were his works full of cruelty, misery, damnation and destruction, Now as touching this saying, who is able to resist his will, we must learn what is gods will, If you ask the Lord he will answer you, it is not my will that any man sin, neither is it my will that the sinner die, but rather that he amend and live, but if he will not amend but continue in sin, him will I punish, and him may I also punish having power above all men, as the potter over the clay. wherefore when any man suffereth justly for his trespass, he ought not to accuse God and say who can resist his will▪ as God would absolutely the destruction of his creatures, as ye teach. God will all men to repent and amend, and also that the● who will not repent and amend, be punished. this his will is just and full of mercy. against which will is no man able to resist. for either must they repent and amend or else they must suffer. As the potter would gladly make of his clay a good vessel, but if it will not frame he breaketh it and casteth it away, and as the king would all his subjects to be obedient unto his laws: yet the unworthiest slave in his dominion hath power to break the kings laws. Notwithstanding when he suffereth for his offence the kings will is fulfilled, even so though God both will hand common death us to observe his law, yet have we power to offend against the former part of his will, otherwies we should all observe ●he will of God, and be saved, and so should there be no reprobate. But when for our disobedience, we be punished, the will of God is fulfilled, which will is both good and just, and therefore ought no man to accuse it and say who is able to resist his wil No more than clay, when it framed not to be a good vessel, doth accuse the potter of breaking it. ANSWER. Ye be not able to prove, that in any vehemency we allege those words of the Apostle in other sentence, than he wrote than, for all praise and glory be unto God the merciful giver, we have not so little profited in the school of Christ jesus, that we would wrest the words of the holy Ghost to a contrary sense. We are not ignorant that the Apostle pronounceth these words in the person of carnal men, who hearing that God hath mercy upon those that he will, and that also he maketh hard hearted such as he will, do storm and furiously cry, wherefore then doth he complein, who is able to resist his wil These words I say do we not urge to prove our doctrine. for where we affirm, that the only will of God, is the perfect reule of all things, which be done, and are to be done in heaven and in earth, we build our doctrine upon evident testimonies of the scriptures, and upon the chief principals of our religion and faith. David and Isaiah do both agree, that our God who dwelleth in heaven doth what so ever he will in heaven and in earth, that he formeth light and doth create darkness, that is, giveth aswell prosperity as adversity. Daniel affirmeth that the supreme God distributeth kingdoms as best seemeth to his wisdom, and Solomon doth witness that against the Lord there is no counsel can prevail. The necessary principals of our faith do teach us, that as in God there falleth no ignorance, so in him there is no impotency. He doth not as it were in suspense and doubt, behold the event and chance of things, ronning after to seek remedy: but that in wisdom hath he disposed all things: willing nothing which he may not, and doth not bring to pass in time, according to his eternal purpose: and working, nothing which is not most just, howbeit the causes thereof be hid from us. Of these and many more scriptures and necessary principals of our faith do we ground our doctrine, and not upon that one place, spoken in the rebuke of the stubborn and rebellious disputers with God. ye burden us that we accuse and make God to be the author of evil, and the cause of damnation. That we cause many breast out and say, since his will and pleasure no man is able to resist, let him lay it on himself and not to us, if any sin be committed. And last ye affirm that if our sainges be true, that then are gods works full of cruelty, misery, damnation, and destruction, and so of two things, ye accuse us, and the third ye affirm inevitably to follow of our doctrine if it be true. Here after I will not greatly labour to confute thy arguments which is a thing most easy even to any godly man, Answer. howbeit he had never seen art nor studied the same. But seeing that thou and thy most pestilent sect, be not content maliciously to slander those that in such a case be most innocent, but that also with most impudent mouths ye vomit forth your horrible blasphemies against gods majesty, I will most earnestly and most unfeanedlie require of all rulers, Princes, Magistrates, and governors who in the fear of God do rule, above their subjects, that as they will answer in the presence of the Lord jesus, for the administration of justice committed to their charge, that indifferently they judge betwixt you and us. To wit that if we can evidently be convicted, of those crimes which ye most maliciously, and most unjustly lay to our charge, that then judgement without mercy be executed against us. But and if ye fail in your probation, and also if ye can not prove cruelty to be in gods works, supposing that our doctrine remain (as that it is) true and stable, that then such order may be taken, for repressing of your venomous tongues, that neither ye be permitted thus openly to blaspheme gods Majesty, neither thus maliciously to slander innocentes, and to offend the ears of all godly hearers. And to the end that men shall not think, that being at this time accused, we begin to devise new defences or excuses of ourselves, I will faithfully and simply bring forth of the works (as some what I have done before) of that singular instrument of Christ jesus in the glone of his Gospel, john Calvin such sentences as shall make plain to all men, what our opinion is of God, of the fall of man, of the wondrous work of our redemption, and of the most just rejection and damnation of the reprobat. Thus saith he, dependeth the perdition of the reprobate, Libr. de aeterna Dei praede stinatione upon the predestination of God, that the cause and the matter is altogether found in them, the first man fell, because the eternal judged it expedient, why he judged it, we know not, yet certain it is that he so judged it not, but that he saw the glory of his name thereby, to be illustrate. when that thou dost hear the mention of god's glory, there also remember thou justice to be: for of necessity it is, that just must that be, which deserveth praise. Man therefore falleth (gods providence so ordaining) but yet he falleth by his own fault. for God of short time before had pronounced that all, which he had made were very good. from, whence then came such wickedness to man, that he so traterously declined from his God? Lest that it might have been, through that, that it proceeded from the creation, God approved by his own commendation, wha● so ever he had made. therefore did man corrupt by his own malice, that pure and clean nature, which from God he had received. and by his fall he drew his hole posterity to perdition. therefore let us rather behold the evident cause of damnation in the corrupt nature of mankind: then that we shall pretend to search it being his and utterly incomprehensible in the predestination of God. neither yet let us be ashamed, so far to subject the capacity of our understanding to the incomprehensible wisdom of God, that in many of his mysteries we acknowledge and confess ourselves to be ignorant. for learned and blessed is the ignorant of those things, which to understand and know is neither lawful neither yet possible in this life. The appearance of knowledge in such things, is a kind of madness. These be the words of this most godly writer. from whose judgement none of us doth dissent in this matter. For from him we must confess, except that we would in concealing the truth declare ourselves to be unthankful, that we all have received comfort, light and erudition, as from gods good instrument. who yet thus further proceedeth There be three things (saith he) in this matter to be considered, first that the eternal predestination of God by the which he had decreed what should become of all mankind, (yea and of every man) even before that Adam fell, was sure and appointed: Secondly, that Adame for his defection was justly adjudged to death, and last that in the person of him that then was lost, was damned his hole posterity. and yet nevertheless God did freely choose of the same such as upon whom it pleased him to bestow the honour of adoption, and yet after in the same place he saith when we speak of predestination, I have constantly taught and this day do teach, that from thence we ought to begin, that justly are all reprobat left in death, who were dead and damned in Adame, that justly they perish who by nature are the sons of wrath. And therefore that none hath cause to complein of gods rigorous severity, seeing that all do bear the cause of damnation within themselves. for if we shall come to the first man we shall find that willingly he fell, and so by his one fall, he brought perdition to all his posterity. And albeit that Adam fell not, but that God both knew and ordained thesame, yet serveth that nothing, nether to extenuat and excuse his crime, nether yet to wrap God in society of the same: for alwaes must we look to this, that he spoilt himself of the righteousness which he received from God, that willingly he made himself servant to sin and to sathan, that without compulsion he cast himself headlong in to destruction and death. yet resteth one excuse, to wit that he could not avoid nor fly that which was decreed by God: but his voluntary transgression is sufficient to his condemnation, nether yet is the secret counsel of God the proper and natural cause of sin, but the fire and plain will of man. And there for seeing that man findeth in himself the cause of his misery, what shall it profit him to seek it in the heaven. And after albeit that men by long compassing about, purpose to delude themselves, yet can they never make themselves so brutish and dull but they shall feel the sense of sin graven in their hearts. therefore in vain is it, that ungodliness goeth about to absolve man, whom his own conscience damneth. In so far as God willing and knowing permitted man to fall, the▪ cause may be secret and hid, but unjust it can not be. And yet he further writeth, this saith he is to be holden without all controversy, that sin was ever hateful to God, for most rightly doth this commendation, wherewith of David he is commended agree to him: that he is a God that would not iniquity, but rather in ordaining the fall of man, his end and purpose was good and most right, The purpose of god in man's fall. from the which the name of sin abhorreth. howbeit I say that so he hath ordained the fall of man that I utterly deny him to be the author of sin. Let the indifferent reader judge with equity: if justly we be accused of that blasphemy, which so openly we abhor. but yet in the same book he bringeh forth a testimony of Augustine who thus writeth, These be the great works of God (saith Augustine) brought to pass in all his wills, Enchi. ad Lauren. cap. 1 and so wisely brought to pass that while the nature of Angel and man had sinned, that is, had done not that which he that is God would, but that which the self (meaning the creature) would: yet not the les by the same will of the creature, by the which that was done, which the creator would not, did he fulfil that which he would, he being infinitely good, using well those things that were evil, to the damnation of them, whom he justly had appointed to pain, and to the salvation of those whom mercifully he had predestinate to grace. In so far as to them pertained they did the thing which God would not: but as appertaining to god's omnipotency they might by no means have done that, for even in that, that they did against the will of God, the will of God was done in them, and therefore great are the works of the Lord (brought to pass in all his wills) that by a wondrous and unspeakable manner, that thing should not be done without his will, that yet is done against his will. for it should not be done if he did not suffer it. And of a truth he suffered it not unwilingly, but willingly. And a little before saint Augustin saith, it is not to be doubted, but that God doth well, permitting those things to be done which are evil. for he suffered not this, but in his just judgement. Albeit therefore that these things which be evil in so far as they are evil, are not good, yet nevertheless it is good, that not only good things, but also that evil things be. for if that this were not good that evil things should be, by no means should they be permitted to be by the omnipotent good, to whom no doubt, it is a like easy not to suffer the thing which he will not to be, as to do that thing which he will: except we believe this, the beginning of our faith is endangered, by the which we profess ourselves to believe in God the father almighty etc. And in the end to answer to these calumnies which ye have taken forth of Pighius that papist, john Calvin concludeth, if ever I had said that it came to pass by the instruction or motion of the spirit of God, that the first man did alienat himself from God, and not that rather I have in all places defended, that man was pricked thereto by instigation of the devil and by the motion of his own heart, them meritably might Pighius and his complices have railed against me. But seeing that I removing from God the very cause of the action, do also remove from him all crime, so that man only is subject aswell to the crime as to the punishment: wickedly and maliciously is this laid to my charge that I should say that man's defection and fall is one of gods works. But yet lest that one thing should appear to lack of our full doctrine, I will recite his words, which he writeth against the libertines in the 14 chapter of that work, we do not deny (saith he) but that all things are done by the will of God. In so much that when we declare wherefore he is called omnipotent, we give to him an effectual power in all his creatures, and we teach that as once he created the universal world, so also that he governeth the same. And that his hand is always at the work, that he might keep all things in their estate, and dispose them after his will. And to the end that I may expre●●e the same more easily, I say, that God is to be considered three manner of ways to work in the administration or his creature. Three manner ways doth God work in his creatures. first there is an universal operation by the which he directeth all creatures according to the condition and propriety which he gave to every one, when he form them and this government is nothing else but that which we call the order of nature. for albeit the unfaithful know nothing in the disposition of the world, but that which they see with their eyes. And therefore they make nature as she were a goddess to have empire and dominion over all: yet is this praise to be given to the will of God● that it only doth moderate and govern all things. wherefore when we see the son, the moon, and the stars fulfil their course, Let us understand that they obey God, that they execute his commandment, yea and that they are guided by the hand of God. And also when we see the course of earthly things, all things are to be ascribed to God. The creatures are to be esteemed but as instruments in his hand which he applieth to the work, even as pleaseth him. The scripture doth often make mention of this universal providence, that we may learn in all his works to give glory unto God. But chief in us doth God commend this his power, that we shall know it in ourselves, to the end that we may be purged of arrogancy, which sodanly useth to arise in us, how son we forget ourselves to be in his hands. Hereunto appertaineth that, which Paul said to those of Athenes: It is he in whom we live, are moved, and have our being. By the which he would admonish us, that except God up hold us by his hand that unable it is for us to stand the least moment of time. for even as the soul dispersing her strength through the hole body, moveth the members, so are we qwickened of God, form whom only we obtain what so ever strength or power we have. But this universal operation of God impedeth not, but that every ●reature in heaven and in earth retain their own nature and quality, and also do follow their own inclination. The second manner by the which God worketh in his creatures is that he appointeth them in obedience of his goodness, justice, and judgement, sometimes to help his servants sometimes to punish the wicked, and sometimes to examine the patience of his servants, or to correct and chasten them with a fatherly affection: as when he will give us abundance of fruits he giveth rain in his time, he sendeth heat by the son, and bright and clear days, as also he useth all other natural means as instruments of his liberality. But when he pulleth back his hand, the heaven is made like brass, the earth is iron, and so it is he that sendeth thunder, frost, hale: and also it is he that is the cause of sterility and barrenness. therefore what so ever the Ethnics and ignorant did attribute to fortune, we assign to the providence of God. Not only to that universal operation, of the which we have before spoken: but to his especial ordinance by the which he governeth all, as he knoweth it to be most expedient and profitable: and this he teacheth when by his Ptophetes he saith that he created darkness and light, that he sendeth death and lief, that neither good nor evil can chance but from his hand. In so much that he saith that he doth govern and direct the lots: Yea if that any man by chance and not of set purpose be slain, he avoweth himself to be the cause of his death, and that so he had appointed that we shall judge nothing to come of fortune, but that all cometh by the determination of his counsel. And further it displeaseth him when we esteem any thing to proceed from any other. so that we do not behold him, and know him not only the principal cause of all things, but also as the author appointing all things to the one part or the other by his counsel. Thus let us then conclude that prosperity and adversity, rain, winds, hale, frost, far wether, abundance, hunger, war, or peace, to be the works of God, and that the creatures which be the inferior causes, are only instruments which he hath in readiness to execute his will, which he so useth at his pleasure, that he leadeth and moveth them to bring to pass what so ever he hath appointed. Moreover it is to be noted that not only he thus useth his insensible creatures, that by them he worketh his will, but also men themselves, yea and also devils, insomuch that sathan and wicked men are executors of gods will: as he used the Egyptians, to punish his people, and a little after, he raised up the Assyrians and other such to revenge the sins of his people we see that he used the devil in tormenting Saul, and in deceiving Achab. which things when the libertines doheare, rashly and without judgement beholding no further they conclude, That now the creatures do no more work, and so horribly do they confound all things nether do they only mingle and mixed the heavens with the earth, but also they join God with the devil. and that chanceth unto them because they do not observe two most necessary exceptions. The former is that Satan and the wicked are not so the instruments of God, but that they also do their own parts. Nether must we imagine that God so worketh by wicked men, as by a stock or a stone, but as by a creature participant of reason, etc. When we say then that God worketh by creatures, this impedeth not but that the wicked work also upon their part. which thing the scripture most evidently declareth, for as it pronounceth that God will whissill, and blow as it were the trumpet to call and bring forth to battle the unfaithful, so ceaseth it not to make mention of their own counsel, and ascribeth to them both a will and a work, which they did execute under the decree of God. The other exception of the which these unhappy libertines take no head, is, that there is a great difference betwixt thework of God, and thework of the wicked when that God useth him in stead of Turrian instrument. The wicked man is provoked to iniquity either by avarice, ambition, envy, or cruelty nether yet looketh he to any other end or purpose, and therefore the work taketh the quality from the root, from the which it springeth, that is from the wicked affection of the mind, and the mischievous end which he looketh unto: and therefore justly is it judged evil. but God altogether hath a contrary respect: to wit, that he may exercise his justice, to the conservation of the good to use his favour and gentleness towards the faithful, and that he may punish such as have deserved. Consider how we must make difference betwixt God and man, that upon the one part we shall behold his justice, his goodness, and his judgements: and upon the other part we shall consider in the self same work the malice and envy of the devil and of the wicked. Let us take a bright and clear glass in the which we may behold these things. When the message of the loss of all his goods came to job, An example taken by job. the sodan death of his sons, and so many calamities, which all at once fell upon him. He doth acknowledge that he was visited by God saying: The Lord gave all these things, and it is he that hath taken them away, and no doubt so it was. But in the mean time, do we not know, that the devil procured all these things? and did not he understand by narration of his servants that escaped, that the chaldeis had driven away his bestial and flocks? Did he commend those brigands and spoilers? or ought we to excuse the devil? because that all these calamities proceeded from God. Not so, for both we and he do, and did understand that there was a great difference betwixt their purposes: And therefore he (yet damning the evil) said the Name of the Lord be blessed. The same may we say of David: but at this time it sufficeth, that God so worketh by his creatures, and so doth use them to his providence, that the instrument, by the which he worketh, ceaseth not to be evil. And albeit that he convert the malice of the devil and of wicked men to good, yet they therefore are neither excusable, neither yet clean from sin: and their works are wicked, and to be damned. for all works take their quality of the purpose and the will of the author. Who so ever maketh no distinction betwixt these things, maketh an horrible confusion. And such be the libertines, who as before is said, do not only join the devil, in society with God, but also, do transform him in to God: judging his works worthy of praise, under this colour, that he doth nothing, but that which is appointed by God: But contrariwise we ought to observe, that the creatures do wo●k their own works in this earth: which works according as they were directed to this or that end, so are they to be judged either good or evil: and yet God governeth and doth moderate all things, and guideth them also to a right end. He turneth the evil into good: or at least God working by the goodness of his nature, draweth as it were by violence some good, forth of that which in the self is evil. So doth he use the devil that he doth not mix himself with him, neither to be in fellowship with him, neither yet with his wicked fact, neither that his justice shall put away the nature of the devil. for as the son sending forth his beams, A similitude of the son. and heat to the carrion, and so engendereth in it some corruption, draweth to itself neither corruption neither yet any filthiness: neither yet doth the son by his purity and birghtnes, so purge the carrion, but that it remaineth stinking and corrupt: so doth God so work by the wicked, that the justice, which is in him doth not justify them, neither yet is he defiled by their wickedness and corruption. The third kind of god's operation consists in the governance of the faithful, in whom he liveth and reigneth by his spirit. In so far as we are corrupt by original sin, we be like to the dry and barren ground, which produceth no good fruit. for our judgement is corrupt, our will rebellious, ever ready to evil: and finally our hole nature is nothing else but a lump of sin. And therefore not only can we not apply ourselves to any good action, but we are not able, 20 Cor. 3▪ Philip. 2 nor sufficient to conceive one good thought (as Paul doth witness) but if we be able to an● thing of necessity that must proceed from God. It is he therefore that worketh in us both to will and to perform: he doth illuminate us, and lead us to the knowledge of himself, he draweth us to himself, and by softening our hearts, he formeth new hearts in us. further it is he who moveth in us a desire of praying, he giveth power and strength to resist all the temptations of sathan, and maketh that we do walk in his commandments. But yet we must consider, that of nature, we have both will, and election: but because they are both depraved, by sin, the Lord reformeth them, and of evil maketh them good. That we therefore be apt to discern, that we have a will, that we do this or that, this is a natural gift: but that we can choose, desire, or do nothing but that which is evil, that cometh of the corruption of sin: that we thirst to do good, that we have some power to execute the same, this proceedeth from the supernatural grace, by the which we are regenerate, Except we be regenerate by supernatural grace we can neither think will, nor do any thing that good is. and newly born to a better and more godly life. Behold then what God worketh in his children: first putting away their perverse nature, he conducteth and guideth them by his holy spirit, in obedience of his wil But these drunken or rather furious libertines crying, that all things are wrought by God, do make him author of evil. And further even as the nature of the evil were changed, when it is cloaked under the coverture of god's name, they affirm it to be good. in the which they do greater injury, and contume lie unto God, The libertines. then that they should transfer his power and justice to an other. For seeing there is nothing more proper unto God, than is his goodness: it behoveth first that he should utterly deny himself, before that he can work evil: which thing, these blind libertines attribute unto him. And assuredly the God of these men is an Idol, which ought to be more execrable, than all the idols of the Gentiles. And so forth to the end of that chapter he proveth that God committeth no sin in none of the wicked of the earth etc. Thus far have I recited the mind and most part of the words of that godly writer, written by him now twelve years ago, against the libertines. By the which the indifferent reader may judge whether that justly you accuse him and us, that we make God author of sin. In the name of God, and of his dear Son Christ jesus (whose glory ye study utterly to suppress) I require as before of all those that be placed in authority by his word, An earnest request that the magistrate will de try the accusation of the adversary. whose hands he hath armed with the sword of justice, that earnestly as they will answer before his fearful throne of judgement, they take trial in this matter, that if we be found either in life, either yet in doctrine, as we be accused, that God may be glorified in our just punishments: but if we can not be convicted (as we fear neither trial nor judgement) that than our accusers may acknowledge their offence. The second thing which is laid to our charge, The second accusation. is that we cause many other to breast out and say. Scythe his will and pleasure no man is able to resist, let him lay it on himself and not upon us, if any sin be committed. If the blasphemies of the ungodly should be laid to our charge, Answer to the 2. accusation. because that we teach a doctrine most true, and most comfortable to the children of God: then can not the Apostle saint Paul be excused, for the same blasphemies were vomited first against him, What horrible blasphemies were also vomited against S. Paul's doctrine. and the doctrine which he taught: Some crying, let us do evil, that good may come of it: others, let us abide in sin, that grace may abound: & some furiously roaring (as ye do) did despitefully cry, wherefore doth he complean, who can resist his will? But was the doctrine therefore damnable? or was the Apostle criminal, for teaching the same? I suppose ye will be more favourable in this cause, than so rashly to condemn him, whom God hath absolved. If then our doctrine can not be impugned by the plain scriptures of God, why should we sustain the blame of other men's blasphemies? Howbeit in very deed the blasphemies of none come so plainly to our ears, How impudent bla●ph●mers the adversaries be. as yours do▪ for the very Papists, and the insolent of the world are yet ashamed, so impudently to lie upon us. Who although they will not follow the purity of the doctrine taught by us, yet either are they put to silence, by the power of ●he holy Spirit, or else they in●ent some coulorable lies, and do abstain from such open blasphemies, as you cast out against God, and us. We lay to your charge (say you) none other thing than ye yourselves do confess, The reply of the Adversary for ye affirm that God worketh all things according to his will and pleasure. We answer that maliciously and devilishly ye wrist our words contrary to our mind. Answer to the reply of the adversary. for always we make a most plain difference betwixt the will of God, and the will of the wicked, and betwixt the purpose counsel and end of God and betwixt the purpose and end of man. as in all this hole process before entreated the indifferent reader may well consider. If ye continue in your blindness and furiously cry: But ye affirm that without his will and against it, nothing is done, therefore that men think, that even when they sin, they obey gods will. I answer by the words of the same writer whom before I have alleged: Touching the works which we commit, the will of God is to be considered, as he himself hath declared it: for in vain hath he not given his law, by the which he hath discerned good from evil. As for exemple when he commandeth no man to be hurt, no man to be injuried, but that equity and justice be indifferently kept to all, that no man steal, defraud his brother, that none commit adultery, fornication or filthiness, but that every man keep his own vessel in sanctification and honour. Here is the will of God evident and plain. What further pleaseth him, in these cases ought no man to inquire. for we know, that if we do these, and other things that be commanded, and do abstain from all things that be forbidden, Above that which we are commanded by God we ought not to inquire. that then we obey the will of God. And if we do not that, we can not be acceptable to him. If that any man shall steal, or commit adultery, and shall say that he hath done nothing against the will of God, he lieth most impudently. for in so far as he hath transgressed the commandment of God, by the which he was taught what was gods will, he hath done against his will. Let all men now judge, if that we give occasion to man, to flatter himself in sin, and to think, that when they commit iniquity against the express commandment of God, that then they obey his holy will. If any demand, whether that any thing can be done against gods will: that is, if God may not, if he would stay and impede the sin of man: before I have answered by the mowth of Augustine, and now again by john Caluine that nothing is, nor can be done, which he may not impede, if so it please his wisdom, yea utterly we must eschew, that we inquire not of his providence, When the question is of our duty no man may be inquisitive of gods secret providence. which is hid from us, when that the question is of our duty. His word declareth unto us what he approveth, and what he condemneth, with that we ought to stand content, and by the same, ought we to reule our lives, leaving the secrets to God, as by Moses we are taught. To make the matter more plain, the case supposed, that I be tempted with concupiscence, and lust another man's wife, in the which I long strive, and in the end▪ fathan objecteth to me this cogitation, follow thy purpose, for by that means, thou maest perchance be further humbled, and after thou maest taste more abundantly the mercy, and the grace of God. Should I therefore louse the bridle to my wicked affections? should I declyn from the plain precept, and enter into the secret providence of God? God forbidden. for that besides the violating, or breaking of his commandment were horrible temptation of his godly majesty, and so in one fact, were committed double impiety. The sins I know of gods dearest children are grievous▪ and many, and wondrous is the providence of God, working in his saints, but never, or seldom it is, that such perilous cogitations prevale against them: for the spirit of God so rewleth in them, tha● commonly this sentence of Solomon is before their eyes: such as unreverently search out gods Majesty, sha●be oppressed by the glory of the same. And so must it needs come to pass, as john Calvin affirmeth, that the pride of such must be punished, and that with an horrible punishment, the pride of those I say, shall punished, who not content with the will of God revealed (to the which they will not be obedient) delight to mount and fly above the skies, there to seek the secret will of God. With what faces can ye now lay to our charges, that we give occasion to men to flatter themselves in sin, or yet to think that in committing iniquity, they obey gods will? Ye allege perchance that the common people read not our writings, and therefore they can not understand our judgement in this case. I answer, the more impudent and blasphemous are you, who so defame us in the ears of the unlearned multitude, that to them ye make both us and our doctrine odious, before that ever it be known or examined. But yet for further discharge of ourselves against your most unjust accusations, and for the better instruction of the simple, I will adduce an other testimony from the writing of the same faithful servant of Christ jesus, john Calvin, and so put end to this your second calumny. In his commentary upon the acts of the Apostles the 2. chap. writing upon these words of Peter, affirming that by the determinat counsel and prescience o● God, was Iesu● betrayed and crucified, by the hands of wicked men, because (saith he) Peter appeareth to mean, that wicked men obeyed God, whereof of two absurdities, one must needs follow: to wit, that either God is the author of evil, or that men committing all kind of iniquity do not sin, because they seem to obey God. I a●s●er, that wicked men do not obey God how so ever it be that they put in execution those things, which God hath with himself appointed. for obedience proceedeth from a voluntary affection, which earnestly thirsteth to please God, bu● we know that the wicked have a far other purpose. moreover no man obeyeth God, but such as hath his will known. Obedience then dependeth upon the knowledge of gods will. And so as the will of God is revealed in his law, so likewise it is evident, that who so ever transgresseth against his will revealed, hath his conscience to witness against him, that neither he doth the will of God. neither yet that he obeyeth him. To the second ●e sayeth, I constantly deny that God is author of evil: for in this word evil there is the notation and propriety of a wicked affection, which never falleth nor can fall in God. The evil work ought to be judged by the purpose and end, to the which every man tendeth in his action. When men commit theft, or murder, therefore they sin, because they are thieves and murderers. In the theft and murder, there is wicked counsel, which never tendeth to please God, but to satiate their inordinate appetites. But God who useth their malice, is to be placed in glory above them. for he looketh to an other end: for the one he will punish, and the patience of the other he will exercise. And so he never declineth, nor boweth from his own nature, that is from a most perfect righteousness. So that Christ was betrayed and crucified, by the hands of the wicked, it was done by the ordinance of God. But the treason and the slaughter, which by themselves were most odious and wicked, ought not to be judged nor accounted the work of God. Let men whose minds, the devil hath not inflambed in hatred and malice against God, against his simple truth, and against the professors of the same, now judge whether that we affirm God to be author of sin, or if we give any just occasion that man should glory in wickedness, either yet that they shall burden God with the same. And I appeal to thy own conscience (thou unthankful unto men and open traitor to the verity, which once thou professed) whether that thou oftener than once hast heard with thine ears, and that in open audience of many: That if any should take boldness to sin in hope of mercy, that the cup, which they should drink, should be most bitter. Now to that which ye affirm, The affirmation of anabaptists. and we most constantly deny. You affirm that if our sayings be true, that then are the works of God, full of cruelty, misery, damnation and destruction. As before I have noted somewhat, Answer. which maliciously ye slander us, so will I plainly and simply in short and several propositions, set forth the some of that doctrine, which we teach and profess, and that you so blasphemously oppugn, to the end, that rulers and godly magistrates, and you yourselves also may clearly see, what we believe and affirm. which being considered and compared with gods scriptures, if your affirmation be found true, then refuse we not punishment worthy for blasphemers. But if ye of malice against god's truth spewing forth the corruption of your stinking stomockes infected with pride, and with contempt of g●ace, have affirmed that, which ye be not able to prove: our earnest request is, as before that your vennom may be repressed betimes. These propositions following have I translated forth of the work writ by that learned and godly man Theodorus Besa. Theodore Eeza is propositions against Castalio. against the calunnies of your capteyn Castalio. The first proposition, God effectually worketh and bringeth to pass all things, according to the counsel of his own will. This counsel doth God execute in certain moments of time: nevertheless the counsel itself is eternal, and passeth before all things, not only in time (as it that is before all time) but also ●n ordre. for otherwies the will of God should not be the principal and first reule of gods counsel, but rather the qualities of things foreseen, and foreknown, and moving God to take this counsel, or that, should prescribe a reule to ●he will of God. This counsel ma● not be separated from the will of God, whiles of necessity we spoil God of his God head. This counsel is not put in moderation and in direction of chance, or fortune, but it hath an effectual and working strength in all things, as Paul speaketh. This strength and efficacy is attributed to God working, but it is not sa●d to be of God. therefore by this word efficacy, or strength is not declared any nature and power given by God the creator to the things that be created, that they should do this or ha●, but thereby is understand the power of God, which he hath in himself to do all things. This universal particle, all in the words of Paul, can by no manner of exception, be restreinend but that God in that part, shall be judged idle, as Epicurus did falsely affirm. And if we shall say that any thing is done, which God may notimpede, the shall he be spo●●ed of his infinite power. So that the conclusion is sithec● that God himself, even as it hath pleased him, to determine all things to come from eternity, even so he workth by his own power, that the same things come to pa●●e in their time, as he willeth. Of these things not withstanding none of those blasphemies doth follow, were with we be burdened: to wit, that God is the author of sin either that he delighteth or willeth iniquity: either that sathan or men doing wickedly, do obey God: either in so far as they do evil, that they do the thing that God will, and therefore are blameless. Let such blasphemies be far not only from our mowches, but also from our cogitations and thoughts. That none of these blasphemies necessarily may be concluded of ouredoctryn, may thus be proved. God putteth in execution the counsels of his will by second causes and mid instruments, not as bond unto them, as the Sto●kes did affirm but, freely and potently making, moving, and directing them, as it pleaseth his wisdom. Of those instruments there are two principal kinds. The one hath lief and moving, the other be without lief, which ra●her be moved, by the force of others, then move themselves. There be two sorts of those that have lief, the one be endued with reason and judgement, the other be without reason and are only carried by the blind force of nature. Those that be without lief, and those also that have lief, but lack reason can neither be said to do well nor evil, but those that use them as instruments may be said either to do well or evil. Those that have lief endued with reason are either Angels or men. The angels be of two sorts, some good some bad. but as for men all by nature are evil: But by grace they are so separated, that some are utterly evil, some partly good: to wit, in so far as the Spirit of God hath sanctified them. Such as in any action are moved by their own inward motion, justly may be said to work, and therefore in that kind of instruments falleth the difference of good and of evil works, nether yet properly, in that respect may they be called instruments, but the causes efficient. An evil action I call that which hath not the revealed will of God for the assurance and end, and by the contrary, the work is good, when the worker looketh to obey gods express commandment. These same although they be causes, in so far as they work by their own proper motion, yet are they in an other respect called instruments, in so far as they are moved by an other. As when the hangman by the commandment of the magistrate killeth a man, or when by instigation of the devil, men hurt others, or when at the commandment of any, we do either good or evil to any man. In this kind of actions, it is evident, that one work is attributed to two, to the one, as to him that worketh by an instrument, and to the other as to the worker by motion or commandment: such workers are instruments not simply as the hammer or axe is in the hand of the smith or hewer, but they are such instruments, as also move by their own inward motion. And for this double respect, a double work appeareth some times to be done: In somuch that the one may be laudable, and the other wicked. As if the magistrate shall commit an offender worthy of death to the executor of justice. This work is praise worthy of all good men. But if the lictor inflambed rather with envy, avarice, or any other wicked affection, then looking to the commandment of the judge, shall kill the same offender, most certain it is, that before God he can not avoid the crime of murder. Now let us apply these things to God, whose efficacy before we have proved to work in all things without exception, and so that by those things, which he hath made as by instruments, he executeth in time what so ever he hath decreed from eternity. What so ever God worketh is good: seeing from him who is infinitely good, no evil thing can proceed: but he worketh a●l things, therefore all things be good, inso far as they are done by God. And that difference of good and evil hath only place in the instruments, and in those of whom we have spoken in the 14. proposition. For if those instruments be good, and if their actions look to the revealed will of God, they do well, and God also doth well by them. wherefore that work is always good. as when the good angels execute that which God commandeth, and holy men do follow God calling them. Evil instruments (evil I say) not by creation but by corruption, in so far as they work always, they do evil, and therefore justly do they incur the wrath of God. But in so far as God worketh by them, they either by ignorance, or else against their purposes serve to the good work of God. But God himself, by what so ever instruments he worketh, worketh at all times well. And so he worketh by those instruments that not only he permitteth and suffereth them to work, nether doth he only moderate the event or chance: but also he raiseth them up, he moveth, he directeth, and that which is most of all, he also createth, to the end that by them he shall work that, which he hath appointed. Which things God doth righteously and without any injustice. For when the wicked man sinneth, either against himself either against any wicked person, God without any sin, doth, and bringeth to pass, that the wicked man shall take vengeance upon himself, or that evil men shall take vengeance upon other wicked men, who have deserved punishment. And this one and other work of God is most just, and by such exemples of his judgements, God erecteth and comforteth his afflicted. How oft that evil men hurt good men, the wicked men sin, and in the end they suffer just punishment: and yet by them, nevertheless doth God chasten, instruct and confirm his own: and by the manifest enemies of his Church doth God make glorious his Church. Yet can it not be said, that those evil instruments do obey God. For albeit that God worketh his work by them, yet they so far as in them lieth, and as concerning their own counsel and will, do not the work of God, but their own work: for the which meritably they are punished. Albeit what so ever God worketh by the wicked is good, yet what so ever the wicked men work is evil. Nether is the consequent good, God worketh all things, Ergo he worketh sin, for the name of sin is not but in the vicious and faulty quality, which is altogether in the instrument that worketh. By reason of this corrupted quality, the work which in the self is one, some manner of way is double, and may be divided: Insomuth that the one, that is the just work of God, directly fighteth and repugneth against the unjust work of man. God nevertheless far other ways worketh by his good instruments, them he doth by his evil instruments. for besides that by his good instruments he worketh his work, the good instruments also do their work, by that strength and efficacy, which the Lord ministereth unto them. And God also worketh his work by them, and in them he worketh to will and to perform. but by the evil as by sathan and wicked men, in so far as they are not regenerate as oft as God doth execute the just counsels and decrees of his eternal will, he declareth his own strength, and efficacy, in his work by them, which they do either ignorantly, or else against their purpose. And yet in so far as they work, God worketh not in them, but he looseth the bridle to sathan: to whom by his just judgement he giveth them over, to be moved and possessed forward to all iniquity, that they may be carried to perdition, even by the instigation of the devil and by their own proper will. Thus have you briefly the some of our doctrine in this matter, which if ye be able by manifest scriptures, or yet by good arguments from the same deduced, to improve: them can we not refuse to make satisfaction, as the Church of Christ jesus shall require of us. But if that unjustly ye have accused us, and have further imputed cruelty upon God, by reason that his judgements most just in themselves, are to your senses incomprehensible, them can we not of conscience cease to require of you a greater modesty, and also of the lawful Magistrate an order to be taken that your malice and vennon may be repressed: assuring them, that if by times your enterprises be not impeded that they shall shortly feel what confusion, ye have of long fostered in your breasts. your poison is more pestilent, than that of the papistry was in the beginning. God for his mercies saik preserve his Church, and purge your hearts to his glory. touching the secret will of God, Answer to the. 7. & 8. which so oft ye lay to our charge we shall after speak, as also how God will that all repent, and that all be saved. Before I have declared that this difference must we make betwixt God and man, be he never so potent, that God hath such power over his creatures, that he reuleth them at his pleasure: and is not a simple law giver, which only can devise good laws and give commandment, that they may be kept, but can not, though he would, frame the hearts of his subjects to obedience. Such imperfection (I say) can we not admit in our God, who doth and hath done what so ever he will in heaven and in earth. Psalm. 135 And so your similitude of the king commanding, and of the poorest slave offending, halteth and is imperfect. for God hath greater power over all creatures, yea even over the king himself, them the king hath over his slave. for the slave, when he hath offended, by some means he may escaip the kings hands, and so the punishment of his laws: But so can not the king, the hands of God. Consider the inequality betwixt God and man, I say, and then I trust your judgement shall either be reform, or else ye constrained to devise more solid reasons. I have not learned in the scriptures to call the corruption of our nature, by the which we rebel against god's commandment power, but rather impotentie, and thraldom. But ceasing to contend or strive for terms, I wonder, what ye mean, by your conditional, which thus ye form: otherwies that is, if we had no power to offend against gods will we should all observe the will of God, and be saved: and so do you conclude, there should be no reprobation, I will not commonly scoff at you (as your foolishness deserveth) but here I must say, that this your reason is no better than if I should affirm that there is no difference betwixt fowls of the air, and the rest of the creatures of the earth, because that if all creatures had wings, and like agility, that then all creatures should fly aswell as the fowls, and so should there in that case be no difference. Your reason hath no greater strength: for it standeth only upon conditionalles whereof ye justly can conclude nothing. Prove if ye can, that it was, and is the immutable counsel of God that all should be saved and then ye may prove that there shallbe none reprobate. But now we follow, as ye proceed. THE ADVERSARY. As for the sentence of Paul: The twenty & four Section. God willing to show his wrath, to make his power known suffered with long patience, the vessels of wrath ordained to damnation, etc. it is direct contrary to your error not withstanding ye abuse it to maintain the same. For seeing as Paul saith, God suffered them with great patience, he is sorry for them: if he be sorry, them hath he no pleasure in their destruction: The seventh argument. and that wherein he hath no pleasure, he willeth it not and that which he willeth not, he doth not ordain it. wherefore seeing God suffered them with great patience to fall, he hath not ordained them to fall: yn despisest, saith S. Paul, the riches of gods goodness and patience andlong sufferance, not knowing that the kindness of God leadeth the to repentance. behold here the cause why God suffered with long patience, is that we should repent and amend. If they had been absolutely ordained to damnation afore the foundation of the world▪ then God knew they should never repent, and amend. to what purpose then suffered he them with long patience? Notwith standing this is plain enough▪ and conform to the word▪ yet ye despising what so ever is contrary to your mind, ye stik fast to the literal sense of th●se words, ordained to damnation, which words be spoken after the common manner of speaking, as they be called after the common phrase of speech, ordained to damnation, whose end is damnation, we use to say of a man that is cast to be hanged, this man was born to be hanged, not with standing it was not his mother's mind to bear him to be hanged. Such phrases have we very many in the scriptures, as Exod. 11 Pharaoh hearkened not unto you that many wonders may be done in the land of Egypt. Exod. 11. forasmuch as the wonders done in Egypt were grievous to Pharaoh, he did not disobey the intent that more wonders which were plagues should come upon him, None of these phrasis be like if they bewayed. but this was the issue of his obstinate inobedienco. Exod. the XIX who so ever giveth his seed unto Moloch, let him be slain, because he hath given of his seed unto Moloch to defile my Sanctuary and to pollute my holy Name. The Israelites did not sacrifice their children to Moloch to defile the lords sanctuary and to dishonour the Name of God, but to worship Moloch, notwithstanding that was the issue and end of their sacrifice unto Moloch, that the lords sanctuary was defiled and his Name dishonoured. Thereby jeroboam made the two golden claves whereby he made Israel sin to anger the Lord God of Israel. The cause why jeroboam made the two golden claves and his intention was not to anger God: but he thought that if the people should go up and do sacrifice in the house of the Lord at jerusalem there hearts should return to Roboam king of juda wherefore he made two golden calves to make the people sacrifice at Bethel, Osee. 8 whereupon followed the wrath of God. Of their silver and gold have they made them images to bring themselves to destruction, The Israelites made them images thinking thereby to be saved and not destroyed: yet their destruction followed thereof. jeremy saith Omy mother, alas that ever thou didst bear me to be a brawler, jerem. 13 and a rebuker of the hole land. jeremies' mother did not bear him to that intent, but yet this was the end. And in the new Testament, if any man hunger, let him eat at home, that ye come not together to condemnation: the Corinthians came not together to the intent to purchase thereby condemnation, but of their abuses in coming together followed their condemnation. By these places and many others, we may understand the phrase of scriptures: That they be ordained to damnation whose end is condemnation, which they receive not by the will of God, which would all men to be saved, but as a just reward for their sins. As the traitor which suffereth ought not to impute his death to the sentence which the judge justly hath given against him, but to his own offence and treason, so when we for our sins be ordained to punishment, we ought not to impute it to gods fore ordinance which is both good and full of mercy, jerem. 15. 9 but to our own offences. And seeing (as S. Paul saith, God suffered them with great patience, their damnation cometh not by the counsel and will of God, for which he is sorry as he saith by the prophet jeremy. I have been sorry for the so long that I am weary. will ye say that God wearieth himself, suffering and sorrowing for them, whom he had reprobated afore the world surely I think that though ye hitherto have unadvisedly said so ye will from hence forth say so no more, which God grant in time that ye weary not the lord also with sorrowing for you. ANSWER. As your cogitations of God be gross and carnal, so be your judgements in this place of scripture deceivable and most erroneous. Esteem it no injury, that I affirm your cogitations of God to be carnal and gross. For I can evidently prove, that some of you affirm and maintain, that God hath eyes, feet, hands, arms, and finally all proportion of man: that he sleepeth and doth again awake, that he forgetteth and after doth remember, that he is mutable, and doth in very deed repent. If these cogitations of the eternal God be not carnal: yea if they be not wicked, and devilish, let the godly indifferent reader judge, In this your long gradation, Answer 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉. which ye make upon the words of Paul, ye conclude contradiction to the holy Ghost, and to the plain words of the Apostle. For the Apostle meaneth and plainly speaketh: that albeit God doth long suffer and delay the judgement of the reprobate yet cease they not to be vessels of wrath, as they that are ordained to perdition. But you conclude the contrary affirming, that he hath not ordained them to fall. And so because you conclude directly against the holy Ghost, I can not cease to say, that your collection is erroneous. But to give an answer more full and large, in examining the parts of your gradation, I will show your error and the cause thereof. first you say: seeing God suffered them with great patience, he is sorry for them. here I say in your first foundation lieth your error, and the cause thereof is, that altogether ye are ignorant of god's nature, in whom nether falleth such sufferance, Painful passions fall not in God. such patience, nor such sorrow, as you grossly imagine. God is omnipotent, and is compelled to suffer nothing, which he hath not appointed in his eternal counsel, he is a Spirit, and free from all such passions, as creatures be subject unto. for in his eternal Godhead, there is nether patience subject to pain, nether yet sorrow annexed with angwishe and grief. But when such passions be attributed unto God, it is for the weakness of our understanding, that the holy Ghost doth subject himself in language, and tongue to our capacity. Ye take liberty to yourself in divers other phrases, to explain them as you please, yea even against the plain scripture. And why will ye not permit, that such phrases be so understand, as nothing be judged upon god's Majesty, which doth not agree, with his godly nature? ye do far abuse the mind of the Apostle: for he doth not infer as you foolishly and wickedly do, that because God did suffer with great patience, therefore he was sorry, but saith, he did suffer the vessels ordained to destruction, that upon the one sort his wrath and power, and upon the other (that is, upon the elect) the riches of his glory might be known. This were sufficient to put silence to your folly. But yet somewhat to instruct the simple, I will some what travail to make these words of the Apostle sensible and plane. He had before concluded: that God would have mercy upon whom he would have mercy, and whom it pleased him, those did he harden. As this sentence far surmounted man's capacity, The place of Paul explained. so might it engender some doubts, in the hearts of the very godly. For they might have reasoned if that God will finally destroy all the reprobate, to what purpose are they now permitted to triumph, and to trouble the elect of God? In answering to which doubt, the Apostle assigneth three reasons, why God with great patience, Three causes why God suffereth the wicked reprobate. suffereth the vessels of wrath. To wit that his power, his wrath, and the riches of the glory of his mercy more evidently may appear & be known. For if God should sodanly from the bellies of their mothers, take away the reprobat, or if he should in the beginning of their malice so break down their pride, that they could not proceed against him, neither should his power appear so great, nether yet his wrath so just and so holy. But when he doth suffer them, as he did Pharaoh, from one mischief to proceed to an other, often removing his plagues, and so declaring himself easy to be entreated, even unto such time, as their malice and rage do carry them, as it were openly to despise God, and his power, when then, I say, in one moment God potently doth over throw the force & strength of his enemies, Exod. 14 Isaiah. 37 Daniel. 5. as that he did of Pharaoh, Senacherib, Balsasar, and of others. then is his godly power, and most just wrath more evidently known, then that he should either have repressed them in the beginning, either yet have taken them away, before their malice began to bud. For hereby doth he not only admonish others of the certain destruction of all those that continue in cruelty, but also giveth to his Church most singular comfort, letting them see that his providence, and power watcheth for them, even when the rage of the enemy appeareth to devour al. And so do they see what is god's mercy towards them. Further when the elect advisedly do consider what be gods severe judgements against the inobedient, and do consider how prone and ready they themselves be of nature to rebellion against God, except they were conducted by his spirit, they come to a more lively feeling of gods free mercy & grace: by the which only they are exempt from the rank and society of the reprobate. Albeit that these ends & causes of gods long suffering, of the vessels of wrath, do not satisfy you, yet I doubt not but gods afflicted children will, and do take comfort of the same. you thus proceed in your sophistical Sorites. If he be sorry (say you) then hath he no pleasure in their destruction. And that where in he hath no pleasure he willeth it not, and that which he willeth not, he doth not ordain it. wherefore seeing God suffereth them to fall with great patience, he hath not ordained them to fall. Your foundation being false, your hole building falleth by the own weight. Answer. Before ye proceed any further, ye must prove, that God did suffer in the vessels of wrath, that which he neither could nor might remedy, and therefore that he fell in grief and sorrow, that his power was no greater and his wisdom no perfiter. Woe be to your blasphemies, for they compel me to write, that which I gladly would not. I have before said that God nether hath pleasure in destruction, Answer to the 2. & 3. nether yet that he will the death of the sinner absolutely, that is having none other respect, but to their torment and pain only. But albeit pride and malice will not suffer you to grant, that God hath created all things for his own glory: yet will not he be suppliant unto you, that ye shall suffer him to use his creatures, at his own good pleasure. Where upon these words of the Apostle: dost thou despise the riches of gods goodness, not knowing that the kindness of God leadeth the to repentance, ye infer, that the cause why God suffereth with long patience is that we should repent and amend. If you understand that God suffered his elect, even in the time of their blindness, yea and after their horrible falls and offences with great lenity and gentleness, to the end that afterward they may repent, I do agree with you. for so he did with David, Manasses, Paul, and many others, who after their conversion did not despise gods lenity, but did magnify and praise the same, as in all their confessions may be red. But if you understand Paul's words so, that God hath none other end in that his long suffering, but that the reprobate shall repent and amend their wickedness, because the holy Ghost assigneth other causes (as before we have declared) I must prefer his judgement and sentence to yours. To your unreverent bold and furious question, in which ye a●k to what purpose did God suffer them with long patience, Answer to the furious question of the adversary. whom before he knew should never repent nor amend, I can answer none otherwise, than I have done before, except that this I add: that if ye be not content that gods just wrath and great power shall aswell be manifested, both in this world, and in the life to come, upon the vessels of wrath, as that his mercy, & the riches of his glory shall be praised and extolled in the vessels of mercy, that experience (which the common proverb calleth masters to fools) shall teach you, that it nothing profited the Giants, of whom the poets do speak, to heap up mountane upon mountane, of purpose to besiege jupiter in the heavens. To use the words of scripture, if be times ye cease not, so unreverently to question with God, you shall feel for ever, what torment is prepared, for such as with humility, can not be subject to his judgements incomprehensible, for if ye shall constrein his Majesty to give you a reason, which ye may understand and apprehend, what do you else than go about to spoil him of his Godhead? We stick none otherwise to the literal sense of these former words of the Apostle than the rest of scriptures permit and do teach us. Answer to the. 4. But how proper be your phrase and common manner of speaking, by the which ye labour to obscure the plain words of the Apostle, we briefly shall examine. Ordained to damnation (say you) after the common manner of speech, doth signify no more, but whose end is damnation. To grant you some what, I would know of you, who hath ordained damnation, to be the end of the reprobat: I perceive by your exemple, that ye dare not say, God: for thus ye say, we use to say of a man, that is cast to be hanged, this man was born to be hanged, notwithstanding that was not his mother's mind to bear him to be hanged. Besides the foolish rudeness of this exemple, I wonder at your madness, that you can never make difference betwixt God and earthly creatures. Dare you say, that God hath no greater power, nor foreknowledge in directing and appointing his creatures to their ends, than the mother hath to direct, force, and appoint the end of her child? after that she hath born him, she knoweth not what shallbe his natural inclination: although she instruct and correct him, yet can she not bow and expel his crooked nature: when he is absent from her presence, she seeth not his conversation. If he be deprehended in theft or murder: and so cast to be hanged, she can not (although she would) deliver him from the hands of the judge. But is there any of these imperfections in God? Consider yet, and let reason at length put silence unto your foolishness. Where of the words of Moses, of Hoseas, jeremy, and Paul, Answer to the 5. & 6 and of the fact of jeroboam, ye go about to prove, that phrase in that sense, which ye adduce, to be common in scriptures. I, am in doubt whether that first I shall lament your blind ignorance, or abhor & detest your abominable lies, & horrible profanation of gods most holy word. It is impossible that ignorance hath so blinded you all, that none of you can se the diversity betwixt though semaner of speeches: God hath suffered the vessels of wrath ordained to destruction, Ezod. 11 levit. 18 & 20 & these, Pharaoh shall not hear you, that many wonders may be wrought, etc. Give not of thy seed to be offered to Moloch, etc. I will set my face against such Turrian man, & I will rout him out, from the midst of his people, because that he hath given of his seed to Moloch, that he might defile my Sanctuary, & prophain my holy Name. And so forth of all the rest. for only the place of the Apostle after the english phrase and speech may be rightly translated, The anabaptists do plainly corrupt the scriptures of God. to condemnation, I appeal to thy conscience thou manifest corruptor of gods scriptures, if in all the places, by the alleged there be not this particle, Vt, which is a causal, and not the preposition, In, which is in the words of. S. Paul. And hath malice so bereft the of knowledge that thou canst make no difference, betwixt those two dictions or words. The Lord of his mercy preserve his Church from so bold & so deceitful teachers. If altogether thou hadst been ignorant, with sorrow of heart, I could have lamented thy foolishness: but pereraving the of set purpose and malice, willingly to corrupt gods plain scriptures, that thou may blind the more easily, the eyes of the simple, with grief, and dolour, I say, that better it had been for thee, never to have been born, them thus obstinately to fight against gods plain truth. And that in such fury, that where from the scriptures, thou canst have none assurance for thy error, yet so thou darest wrest them, that they may seem to serve thy purpose. Where so ever thou canst wrest any place, that it may be translated by this english, To, there thou ashamest not to affirm, that it is the self same phrase, with this of S. Paul, vessels of wrath prepared or ordained to destruction. This is sufficient to show to the learned, yea even to such, as do but understand the firstprinciples of their grammar, thy infidelity and crafty deceat, in this matter. But because such as understand nothing in the latin tongue, can not hastily espy thy craft, I will travail to make it so sensible as I can. If I should say, I am appointed to death, to feel the punishment of sin, and so to make sin to cease: will thou therefore say, that this particle, To, in the former place, where I say I am appointed to death, and in the second place where I say, to sele the punishment of sin, and to make sin to cease, are all one phrase, and ought a like to be resolved? I suppose thou wilt not. for in the first place, it can be none other wies resolved but thus, I am appointed to death that is, I must needs die: but in the second place, two causes of death be assigned: for where I say, to feel the punishemen● of sin, I understand, that one cause of death is, that I and all men may feel, how horrible is sin before God: and in this last I understand that death so putteth an end to sin, that after it may not trouble the elect of God. The phrase of S. Paul is much more different from all that thou adducest, then be these phrases before alleged, one different from an other. for where he saith, vessels of wrath ordained to destruction, he signifieth the final end of the vessels of wrath, to be ordained, and before determined in gods eternal counsel. And in all these places: to provoke the Lord, to anger, to defile my Sanctuary, to kindle gods wrath against Israel: to make Israel sin, and such like, are their actions signified to be the causes of gods anger, jerem. 15 god's wrath, and why he reputed his Sanctuary polluted. Thus thy frowardness causeth me to trouble the simple reader. The place of leremie though v maliciously dost pervert, for it can be in nowies so translated. But what tongue so ever thou dost follow thou must say woe be to me, O my mother that thus hast born me, a man that am a brawler, and a man of contention in the hole land The place of Paul, Answert● the. 6 1. Cor. 11. serveth nothing for thy purpose. for albeit there be a preposition, ad, which truly may be translated, To, yet that speech is far different, from the former speech of the Apostle for where he saith: Eat at home that ye come not together to condemnation, he doth admonish them of the danger, which they know not, which was that such inordinate, and riatouse banqueting joined with the contempt of the poor, without repentance must bring condemnation. if thou list reply & allege that thou stickest not somuch to the terms, as to the matter▪ for in all these former speeches, man pretended one thing but an other thing ensued. What canst thou thereof conclude? but that god's purpose, sentence, and mind, is not subject to man's purpose and intention. True it is, that nether Pharaoh did resist Moses of purpose to be plagued, neither did jeroboam erect the calves that Israel should be destroyed, but yet because God had so before pronounced inevitably plagues and destruction did follow their inobedience. If hereof ye will conclude, as ye seem to do, that those whose end is condemnation, receive not that by the will of God, because ye conclude that which neither ye have proved, neither yet go about in this place to prove, I will not trouble myself, with answering for this present. But when ye shall go about to prove that God will all men to be saved (as ye affirm) I hope by god's grace, Answer to the 8. to answer sufficiently. For as we doubt not but gods judgements are holy, and most just, so we know that the conscience of the wicked shall feel in them selves, and no where else, the causes of their condemnation. Neither yet did any of us ever hold, believe or affirm, that any reprobate, shall have that liberty in the hell to quarrel with God, of the secret causes of his condemnation: for the books shall be opened, and the secrets of all hearts shall be revealed. To the suffering, To the 9 patience, and sorrowing of God, I have before answered, in the beginning of this your last confused gradation, and so I will not trouble the reader, with the repetition of the same. The words of jeremy which ye allege, can have no such sentence, as ye do gather. for he doth not speak of any passion, that was in God, as touching his eternal Godhead: but only doth appeal to the conscience of the people, how oft God had not only rebuked, but also from time to time corrected them, ever calling them to repentance, and suspending their last punishment, The first chap. of Isaiah declareth the place of jeremy wrested by the adversaries. howbeit that they continually from evil fell backward unto worse. And so at length was God weary oftener to repent: that is to say, at once he would power forth his just vengeance, which before so oft he had threatened. Let the first chapter of Isaiah be commentary to this place, and I trust the sentence shall be plain. For there he affirmeth, that in that people there was no hole part, that is all order and policy was almost confounded, jerusalem was in a manner left desolate, by the manifest plagues which had apprehended it. but yet there was no true conversion unto God. And here he saith, thou hast left me (saith the Lord) and I have therefore lifted up mine hand upon thee, jerem. 15. and have scattered the. I am weary in repenting, that is, that I have spared the so long. I shall scatter them with the fan, even unto the gates of the earth (that is to the uttermost part) I have made my people desolate, and I have destroyed them: nevertheless they have not turned from their ways. I trust that every reasonable man will consider, that those words be rather spoken, to admonish the people, how God by all means had provoked them to repentance, then to declare unto us, what nature or passions God hath in himself, as ye do. For so appeareth in this your question. Will ye say, that God wearieth himself suffering and sorrowing for them, whom he had reprobated before the world? surly I think, that though ye hitherto have unadvisedly said so, ye will from hence forth say so no more. And so ye end this portion with a prayer. To the which we answer in few words, that albeit we will not take upon us, to define, what after this shall your cogitations be, yet will we not cease to pray to God, that your hearts being humbled with greater reverence, ye may not only think, but also speak of gods high Majesty, of his judgements most holy, most just, and utterly in this life in comprehensible to our dull senses. But now we go forward to that which followeth. THE ADVERSARY. Now must we declare the saying of S. Luke so many as were ordained unto life did believe, The 25. section. The eight argument where we must understand, that as they that will not obey the truth, are called in the scriptures ordained to damnation, as is sufficiently proved before, so they which willingly receive the truth, and couple the word with faith, working by charity are called, ordained to life. Where ye do reply so: predestination is without any condition, I grant predestination to lief, is the very free gift of God, without any condition. Notwithstanding, we can not come to life, but by the way which leadeth unto life. As he which received the one talon of his master, received it of a free gift without his deserving, but because he did not walk in the way appointed by his master, his talon was taken from him again. And as afore by the free benefit of his master he was chosen unto life, so now because he did not walk in the way, which leadeth unto life he is ordained to ●damnation. The prodigal son is received of his father, not for ●his deserving, but of the free goodness and benevolence of his father, ●et is it required of him, that he walk hereafter as an obedient son which if he did not, the latter fall should be worse than the first. Predestination therefore is the mere gift of God, afore the foundation of the world, at the which time nothing could be commanded unto us, yea afore we either have faith, or●ls by hearing of the word we may have faith, no spiritual commandment is given us but when by hearing we may receive faith them is the way of salvation opened unto us, in which we must walk, if we willbe saved. And yet followeth it not, we must walk in the way which leadeth unto salvation, Ergo for walking the way of salvation, we are chosen and accepted. for S. Paul saith, I am guilty to myself in nothing, but therefore I am not justified. If a learned Physician seeing one in danger of death, whom he can and may help, offereth Physic to the patient, able to restore him to his health, and therewith prescribed the patient a diet, now that the physician giveth physic to the patient, it cometh only of his own goodness, But if the patient do not order himself according to the prescript of the Physician, the physic shall not help him. And thoghe he observe good diet, yet ought he not to repute the receiving of his health to himself, but to the Physician. for though it lieth in the pacientes power to hinder his health, yet it is not in his power to give himself health. So Christ our Physician offereth healthful physic to us all, and there with prescribeth our diet, which if we do not observe the Physic shall not avail us. And though we observe it, yet ought we not to attribute our health to ourselves: but to the liberality of our Physician Christ, which of his mere mercy hath made us hole, wherefore to return to our argument, they are ordained unto life so many as will gladly walk in the way which leadeth unto life, that is true obedience, and they do believe as S. Luke saith. ANSWER. The place of saint Luke which ye study to corrupt, is written in the 13. The place of S. Luke in the acts. 13. chap. chapter of the Acts of the Apostles. The light whereof is so clear, that you be never able to obscure the same. And therefore I will not spend much time in confutation of your vanity. for the simple truth of the history shall disclose the same. Paul coming to Antioch in Pisidia did upon the Sabbath enter in to the synagogue of the jews, and therein preached a sermon most profound▪ most effectual, and most comfortable. In the which by plain scriptures he proved that the same jesus which was crucified at jerusalem, was the Messiah promised, and the only Saviour of the world. At which doctrine many of the jews being offended, and yet some embracing the same, Paul the next Sabbath preached to the hole multitude of the jews and Gentiles assembled together: But when plain contradiction was made by the jews, who did blaspheme Christ jesus, Paul and Barnabas taking boldness said to the jews: first it behoved to speak to you the word of God, but because ye reject it, and judge your selves unworthy of the life everlasting, behold we are turned unto the Gentiles. for so hath the Lord commanded us. At which words the Gentiles rejoiced, and glorified the word of the Lord, and did believe (saith the text) so many as were ordained to the life everlasting. Who is be so blind that doth not see, that in these words the holy Ghost assigneth the plain cause, why some do believe, and others do blaspheme, and remain unfaithful? The cause why some believe is, because they are ordained to the life everlasting, as they that are the sheep of Christ jesus: john. 10. therefore they hear, and believe his voice, the others as they are left in the power of the devinll (as they that are never given to Christ, to the end, that they may receive life) remain in blindness, and so by contradiction and blasphemies, declare themselves, whose children and generation they are. None of us do, nor yet ever did deny, but that the elect of God do willingly receive and obey the truth, and that the spirit of God so worketh in their hearts, that not only they believe, but that also they are made fruitful, yea and that from justice, they proceed to justice. But as the hole praise of this we give to God, arrogating no part of it to our selves, so we constantly affirm that nether faith, neither works, neither yet any quality that is, or that God foresaw, to be in us, is the cause of our predestination or election to life everlasting, as before we have sufficiently proved. Ye are so inconstant, To the 2. now granting predestination to be the fire and mere gift of God, without any condition of our works: and immediately after ascribing it to our obedience and walking in the way, that leadeth to life. In this your inconstancy, say, I can not tell how to handle you One thing I see, to my great comfort, that the glory of Christ jesus, is so manifest, and the power of his truth so invincible, that he will reign, in the midst of his enemies. The devils themselves must acknowledge and openly confess, that he is Lord, and the only Son of the living father: and the adversaries of his truth, even when they fight most outrageously against the same, are compelled, to give testimony to it, as you do here in divers places: as when ye say, it followeth not, that because we must walk in the way, that leadeth to life, that therefore, for walking in the way of salvation, we are chosen (and as you writ) accepted. But because (I say) that your inconstancy doth straight carry you to denial of this, I can the les credit, that this be a true confession proceeding from an unfeigned heart: but rather that it is the mighty power of the verity, which (will ye nill ye) compelleth your mouths, to give witnessing upon her part, against yourselves. God grant I may be deceived, in this my judgement. for him I take to record, that I am no otherwies enemy to any of you, then in so far, as ye declare yourselves manifest enemies to the free grace of God, and to the glory of the eternal Son of the eternal father of Christ jesus our Lord and only Saviour. To the 3 Because there is nothing in this your last part, which I have not before at large declared in diverse places, I will only note those things in the which we do not agree with you. First we use not to call predestination the free gift of God, but we call it the eternal and immutable counsel of God, in which he hath purposed to choose to lief everlasting, such as pleased his wisdom in Christ jesus his Son. Secondly we say, that ye are never able to prove by the parable of the talents, that any reprobate was chosen in Christ, to life everlasting. Thirdly that we find neither contract neither condition betwixt the loving Father, To the 4 and the prodigal son in his admission to his former dignity, neither do we so understand the parable, as that the said son newly received to mercy, would after, of stubbornness, unthankfully departed from his father. But rather we think, that as he had felt what misery he sustained, by following his own counsels, he would in times coming with all diligence attend the counsels of his father. Your mind is dark to us and your writing obscure, where that ye say before we have faith, or by hearing of the word, can have faith, no spiritual commandment is given unto us. and also the words of saint Paul, appear not to be well applied: for there he entreateth no thing of election, but only affirmeth, that in the dispensation of that ministery committed to his charge, he knew himself guilty in nothing etc. but because these be of small importance, I only put you in remembrance of them. Last your similitude betwixt your Physician offering medicine, and prescribing diet to the patiented, who may receive and keep it, at his pleasure, and so recover health, and preserve his life, or else reject and break it, and so procure his own destruction: and betwixt Christ jesus who (say you) being our Physician, offereth healthful physic unto us all, and therewith prescribeth our diett, which if we do not observe, the physic shall not avail us etc. This similitude in one respect doth altogether mislike us. For it taketh from our sovereign Lord, his chief glory and honour. for in no wies can we abide, that his mighty power, and operation, by his holy spirit, shallbe compared to the power of any creature. We say not, we teach not, nor believe not, that Christ jesus doth only offer medicine, and prescribe a diet, as a common Physician, leaving the using and observation of it, to our will and power. But we affirm that in the hearts of his elect, he worketh faith, he openeth their eyes, he cureth their leprosy, he removeth, and overcometh their inobedience, yea by violence he pulleth them forth of the bondage of Satan, and so sanctifieth them by the power of his holy Spirit, that they abide in his verity, according as he hath prayed for them, and so continue they vessels of his glory, for ever. And herein we descent from you as afterward more plainly shall appear in discussing of this which you thus term. THE ADVERSARY. The second error of the careless by necessity. The elect though they sin grievously▪ yet are they never out of the favour and election of God, The 26 section. neither can they by any means finally perish. So that Adam when he transgressed, and David committing adultery and homicide were favoured even then and beloved of God, Read the answer to the 27. Section. and never out of election nether could they be. Again the reprobate as Saul and judas were never in the favour and election of God, neither could they nor none other reprobate attain unto salvation. ANSWER. The truth of this proposition doth nothing excuse your malice, and hatred: for albeit there be no sentence in it contained, with being rightly understand, is not agreeable to god's word, yet of what purpose and mind ye have gathered these sentences, leaving those that should explain the same, it easily may appear, by that vennom which ye spew forth against us, to make us odious to all the world as here followeth. THE ADVERSARY. The confutation of the second error. Here you see, The 27 section. how they divide all men into two sorts, one elected or chosen which by no means can perish, and the other rejected or reprobate before the world, so that by no means, can they be saved. What can the devil wish his membres to teach more for the advancement of his Kingdom, than this? What can be invented to provoke men to live a careless, and libertyne life, more than if they be persuaded that neither well doing availeth or pleaseth God nor evil doing doth hinder unto salvation. this is asmuch as if one should counsel the patient to refuse all healthful Physic and good diet and so wilfully to be the occasion of his own death. for if they be (say they) of the elect sort, though they do commit theft, fornication, adultery, murder or any other sin, yet be they still so beloved and favoured of God, that they can not finally perish. And if they be of the reprobate sort (say they) neither repetance, amendment of life, abstaining from evil, neither fasting prayer Alms nor other good deed can avail. for they be so hated of God before the world, that by no means they can obtain his favour, but of mere necessity, do what they can they must perish, seeing it is so saith the natural man let us set the cock on hoop and let the world slide, let us eat and drink, for to morrow shall we die. so the people sit down to eat and drink, and then rise up to play, why masters have ye no conscience thus to cause the people of God to sin, see ye not how ye be led with the same spirit that Balaam was led withal when he counseled to give occasion of sin to the people, I know ye will answer, that I mean not so. Mean what ye list, and do what ye can, yet this is the issue and fruit of your doctrine, and who so ever is thus corrupt by you, without he repent he shall die the death, but God shall require his blood of your hands. Mark well your disciples how many of them endeavour themselves to bring forth the fruits of repentance, how many of them seek for power to crucify the flesh with the lusts and concupiscence thereof. How many of them can we perceive by their conversation, that they have cast of the old man, and put on the new man, walking sincerely in their vocation and the true fear of God. but if they accustom to frequent your congregations, as the papists do the mass, them be they faithful brethren, I hold my peace, of that ye use to have respect of persons preferring the wealthy, which if they be liberal, though they be drowned in many vices, you use to help up such sores with this saying: There is none during this life that can be known to be in the election, be he never so virtuous, nor any out of the election be he never so unrighteous, after this manner ye do heal them up, so that they need not to endeavour themselves to bring forth the fruits of lively faith, for the surest token of their election they think to be, that they be of your congregation. but Christ saith in that shall all men know that ye are my disciples if you do what so ever I command you, and again ye shall know them by their fruits. for a good man out of the treasure of his heart bringeth forth good things yet ye say no man can be known to be either in the election or out of the election during this life, and for proof hereof ye allege the saying of Paul▪ the devil doth transform himself into an Angel of light. to which I briefly answer, that God doth never transform him self into an Angel of darkness, wherefore so long as ye walk in darkness ye be not of God. But thus ye take the most shameful men by the had flattering them, so that they can not return from their wickedness whereby it appeareth, that ye be not sent from God. for ye by your doctrine give occasion to the people to sin. And the Lord saith, if they had been in my counsel they had turned my people, from their evil ways and wicked imaginations, but such lips, such lettuce, such disciples, such masters. of your chief Apollo's be persecutors on whom the blood of servetus crieth a vengeance. so doth the blood of others more whom I could name. but forasmuch as God hath partly already revenged their blood and served some of their persecutors, with the same measure where with they measured to others, I will make no mention of them at this tyme. And to declare their wickedness, not to have proceeded of ignorance and human infirmity but of endured malice, they have for a perpetual memory of their cruelty set forth books affirming it to be lawful to persecute, and put to death such as dissent from them in controversies of religion, whom they call blasphemers of God. notwithstanding they, afore they came to authority, they were of an other judgement, and did both say and write, that no man ought to be persecuted for his conscience saik. but now they are not only become persecutors, but also they have given, as far as lieth in them, the sword into the hands of bloody tyrants. Be these I pray you the sheep whom Christ sent forth in the midst of wolves? can the sheep persecute the wolf? doth Abel kill Cayn●doeth David (though he might) kill Saul? shortly doth he, which is born of the spirit kill him which is born after the flesh? Mark how ye be fallen in to most abominable tyranny, and yet ye see it not. Thus I am constrained even of conscience to write. That if it shall please God to awaik you out of your drean, that ye may perceive how me error haeth drowned you in more errors, and hath brought you to a sleeping security, that when ye walk even after the lusts of your hearts thirsting after blood and persecuting poor men for their conscience saik, ye be blinded, and see not yourselves, but say tush, we be predestinate what so ever we do, we are certain we can not fall out of god's favour. A wake therefore and look what danger ye be in, and how by your poisoned doctrine ye infect the people of God, and draw them to a secure, idle, and careless life. ANSWER. The crimes laid to our charge in this matter be heinous. For first we are accused that we provoke men to a careless and libertine life. So that by us the people do nothing, ●uteate and drink and rise up to play. That we have no conscience, but being led with the spirit of Balaam give occasion of sin to the people. That none other fruit doth ensue our doctrine, ●ut liberty to sin, for our disciples are cruel murderers, subject to all iniquity, respecting persons, and flattering sinners. And last, that by our poisoned doctrine, we infect the people, answer to the first. and bring them to a secure, idle, and careless life. Because I will omit no notable part of your book to overslip without some reasonable answer, I will follow your ordre, although it be confused. If you be able by plain scriptures, to prove a third sort of men, which nether be elect, nether yet reprobat, then shall we learn of you, other wise to divide. But if God by his first voice pronounced in this matter, made mention but of two sedes. and if Christ jesus when he shall come shall set one army on the right hand, and an other upon the left hand, without mention made of any third sort of men, we can not repent, nor yet call back the truth of our doctrine, albeit that ye in despite and fury cry. what can the devil wish his membres to teach more for the advancement of his kingdom then this? what can be invented more to provoke men to live a careless and libertine life, more than if they be persuaded that nether well doing availeth or pleaseth God, nor evil doing hindereth unto salvation. and so forth ye proceed in your first accusation. Before I have required, and yet again do require of God's faithful lieutenants in earth, I mean of lawful Magistrates, who rule in gods fear, whom ye utterly study to abolish, and deprive, of them I say, I have required justice to be ministered betwixt us, and you, without respect of persons. Let the heaven and earth (if men will not) yea let God and his holy Angels, in whose presence we walk, bear record and witness how unjustly and maciously ye accuse us, that we provoke the people to a careless & libertine life. If ever it can be proved, by our doctrine, or writing, that we affirm, that there is no difference betwixt virtue and vice, that the one nether pleaseth God, nether yet the other doth displease him, let us without mercy die the death. But and if the hole scope of our doctrine tend to the contrary, yea if our lives & conversation (how so ever the devil doth blind your eyes) be such, as they only may convict your blasphemy. And last, if the order of that city where this doctrine is taught, be such in punishment of iniquity, and that without respect of person, that the like justice hath never been executed against open offenders since the days of the Apostles, in any christian comen wealth. Then can we not cease to desire that this your former blasphemy may be revenged upon your own heads. We do not deny but this is one part of our doctrine, that as God's counsel is immutable, so is his election sure and stable, insomuch that the elect can not finally be reprobated, nether yet that the reprobat can ever become elect no more then the wheat can become darnel or darnel become wheat, but do we add no more than this? The doctrine of th●se that defend Gods eternal Predestination. do we teach men to set cock on hoop, and so to let the world slide as scoffingly ye writ? or do we not rather continually affirm, that as God of his great mercy, hath called us to the dignity of his children, so hath he sanctified us, and appointed us, to walk in pureness and holiness all the days of our life, that we shall continually fight against the lusts and inordinate affections, that remain in this our corrupt nature, that if we find not the spirit of Christ working in us that then we can never be assured of our election? for the conscience of all such as with out bridle follow iniquity, can never be assured of God's present favour during the time that they delight in sin, finally none of your anabaptistical sort, require greater obedience to be given unto God, and unto his law, than we do, except that ye put your scholars in vain esperance, that by the power of their own free will, they may at length come to such perfection as no sin shall stir in them. But we by the contrary attributing all to the free grace of God do affirm that continually in this life, we must confess, that sin so remaineth in us, that except that God, for Christ jesus saik did pardon the same, his wrath justly should be kindled against us. Let all our writings and the hole some of our doctrine bear record whether thus we teach or not. And are not the lives and honest conversation of many thousands (we praise God of his great mercy) professing the same doctrine, The god lie life & death of a great number in our days proveth the adversaeries to be most impudent liars. To the ● able to convince your malicious impudency. how many have left their country's possessions and lands, and for liberty of their conscience only, do live a sober and contentible lief? how many have given, & daily do give their lives, & blood, for the testimony of Christ's truth, and for that they will not defile themselves with idolatry? And yet thou ashamest not to ask how many of them can we perceive by their conversation, that they have cast of the old man, and put on the new man walking sincerely in their vocation. shall not the great multitude of Christ's dear martyrs, of late in England (thou wilt not say, that they were all anabaptists) the long patience of our brethren in France, The adversaries make no consci+ce to be present at the mass and that cruel persecution of late risen in Italy, Naples, and Spain for Christ's truth only, put thy venomous tongue to silence? If I should demand of thee which of the two did most mortify the flesh, he that for conscience sake leaveth country friends, riches and honours, or he that to gape for worldly promotions, Anabaptist●s would have all things comone. or yet for any other purpose doth cover himself with Esau's clothes (I use your own terms) and so denying what he is, will swear, if need be, that he is not jaakob, which of these two isaiah, dost thou think to have come nearest to the forsaking of himself? Or yet another, whither doth he walk most sincerely in his vocation, that living upon his just labours is ready to communicate, according to his ability to the necessity of his poor brethren? or he who loitering in one place or trotting from country to country would have all things in common contrary to the order of nature and policy? or yet the third, which of the two, doth most crucify the lusts and concupiscences of the flesh, he that layeth down his neck even under the axe of a cruel and unjust Magistrate, and that also when he suffereth unrighteously: or he that would abolish and destroy the good ordinance of God, all lawful Magistrates and distinction in policies. That you be the one, and we be the other of these two sorts of men it is evident enough. And upon whom the crime cleaveth and justly may be laid, further examination shall declare. Now come I to the order of that City, in the which this doctrine is taught, received, and maintained. What maketh the poor city of Geneva, poor I say, in man's eyes, but rich before God, by the plentiful abundance of his heavenly graces, what maketh it, I say, so odious to the carnal men of this world? assuredly not this doctrine, where with ye charge us. for that could well please the carnal man, What maketh the city of Geneva odious to the world. to let him live at his pleasure, without all punishment. Is it not the just rigour of justice, and the severity of discipline executed therein, in such sort, that no manifest offender, where so ever he hath committed his offence, doth there escaip punishment? Is not this it, that so doth offend, not only the licentious of the world? but even you dissembling hypocrites, can not abide, that the sword of God's vengeance shall strike the murderer, the blasphemer, and such others, as God by his word commandeth to die. not so by your judgements, he must live, he may repent. And those common wealths, do ye highly praise, where men may live as they list, be subject to no law nor ordre, yea where the drunkard and such others abominable persons are permitted, Anabap●istes w●ld han● 〈◊〉 punished. to live quietly & find favour to escape punishment & shame. But because in the streets of Geneva dare no notable malefactor more show his face (all praise and glory be unto God) then dare the owl in the bright sun therefore is it hated. Therefore it is called blood thirsty, and thus blasphemously traduced, as after ye writ. Thou sayest that amongst us there is respect of people, To the ● That we prefer the wealthy, which if they be liberal, although they be drowned in many vices, yet we use to heal up their sores, etc. I am assured that thy own conscience doth convict thee of a malicious lie, in thus writing. for thou canst not be ignorant, what the city of Geneva hath of late years sustained, for rooting out those pestilent persons, who laboured to destroy the Lords vineyard planted in the same. And what was the cause that so they were conjured against the liberty of Christ's Euangil. The hatred wilt thou and they say, which they did bear against strangears. I answer, but no mostrangears were then in Geneva then were before, when the chief captains of that faction were most earnest professors of the Euangile (in mouth I mean). And in very deed, if they would have laboured, to have expelled the strangears, they had been enemies to their own commodity. for by the multitude of strangears, their common wealth doth flourish. and none did receive such benefit of strangears, as those that required Christ's doctrine to be overthrown. They were papists (thou wilt say) and therefore hated the religion. I answer in their defence, Geneva was sore vexed because they would not suffer sin unpunished. that in mouth and external profession they were not, but always they protested, that they would never revolt to papistry again. But in few wo●ds, I will open the cause of their conspiracy. They were corrupt in manners, filthy of life, perverters of justice, and such finally, as by whom, the blessed word of God, was slandered and evil spoken by. The preachers called for reformation of manners. They boldly and sharply rebuked, even those that were in highest authority. One of the chiefest of that band was excommunicated, and so did remain more years than one. The consistoire called for justice to be executed, and for penalties to be appointed. for the inobedient & open contemners. But no thing could prevail, the multitude of the wicked was so great, that in votes and voices they did prevail. And so was the iniquity of the wicked maintained for a long season. Which being considered, the godly aswell that were native borne, as also the strangers, consulted upon the next & surest remedy, and that after that not only the most part of strangers were determined to departed, but that also, that faithful servant of Christ jesus, had in public sermon commended his flock, with the weeping eyes of many to the protection, and providence of God, and had publicly pronounced, that he would be no minister in that church where vice could not be punished, according to gods word, where the wicked should tryuphe and make laws at their pleasure. After this consultation it was concluded, that a reasonable number of strangears whose fidelity & honest conversation had long been tried and well known, should be made burgesses, and free to have voice in counsel, & in making▪ civil statutes. which being understand the wicked began more manifestly to utter themselves, they opponed themselves to the Magistrates, they plainly ● denied that any strangers should be free, they appealed to the greater counsel, which being gathered, did justify the decree of the Sindiques (so be the chief magistrates called). Shortly after did the hole vennom burst out: for after feasting, and banqueting of all sorts of villains, was the conspiracy concluded and put in execution. for with one consent they invade upon the night one of the chief Magistrates, they cried victoire, and triumph. but God sodanly repressed that fury, so assisting with out the arm of man his servant and lieutenant for that time appointed, in that city, that first he recovered the ensign of his just and lawful office again, & there after so put to flight, that rebillious and great multitude, that some being apprehended and committed to prison, the rest were dispersed by the only power of God. for that is a thing evident and plain, that the number of the one, did in twenty degrees, surmount the other. This do I write, to let the simple reader understand, although thou be blinded, what was the original of the trouble, which Geneva did after suffer. What did the strangears, I pray the gain by their liberty? as touching the world, I say nothing, for no kind of commodity they lacked before which after they did obtain, only this excepted, that in counsel, they should have voices▪ and place to speak, which thing also did only offend those oppressors of justice and maintainers of iniquity. for thereby did they perceive, that their enterprises should be broken, and that statutes should be made, to reform their insolency. To proceed justice being executed without respect of person, upon those that were apprehended the rest who did escape to great number, were pronounced rebels. Then began skirmyshes upon every side of Geneva, victuals were commanded to be cut of, great threatenings were blown in the ears of all the godly, and when these could not prevail. then were devised practice after practice, treason was conspired, and the enemies hoped for possession of the city. But this being revealed and the practisers punished, ●atha● reaturneth to his own nature again. for after that no entreatment could prevail, open ware was denounced against. them, a day was set that they should be restored, and that with great sums of money to be delivered unto them, by reason of their former losses & injuries sustained. and this sentence was pronounced not, by the rebels only, but by a potent common wealth, and their ancient friends. Hereupon were made, by the rebels fires of joy, Defiance was sent, the day was appointed, that the siege should begin, and victuales should be cut of, esperance nor comfort rested none to us, but God and the messengers of his word, which then sounded the tripet most boldly and most clearly, promising even in our greatest desperation, the same glorious deliverance, which shortly after followed. for God by his power, did mittigat that rage, and converted the hearts of our ancient alliance, to remember their duties toward God, and his servants, and so to enter with the city of Geneva into a new society and league. Now to return to thee malicious slanderer, if we were such as thou dost accuse us, to wit, that we put no difference betwixt vice and virtue, The adversaries are malicious sclanderers of the truth. that we suffer the people in a dissolute life, that we respect the persons of the rich, and heal their sores, with unprofitable plasters, that we only desire, that all men frequent our congregation: and that we esteem that to be the surest sign of their election. If these I say, were true, to what purpose, did all the preachers endanger their lives (and that continually by the space of three years) for obtaining of discipline? why should many godly strangears have rather chosen to have left that common wealth in the which they were, with quietness permitted to live, as best seemed to them, rather than that they would abide the sight of iniquities that dail● did increase? And why did the godly with in that city so hazard liberty and life, that rather they had determined to die in defence of a just cause, then that ever any manifest enemy to God, and virtue should be admitted to bear rule in that common wealth? If we had been of that opinion, which most villainously thou layest to our charge, nether virtue pleaseth God, nether yet that vice displeaset him, had we not been most foolish, and most miserable of all other creatures? Plain it is that our power to mān●iudgemēt was nothing comparable to the power of our advesaries: place of refuge was none left to the godly their asembled. And yet let the enemies themselves witness again▪ us, if in the least one jot, their request was granted. ye let the place of execution witness, if when we lok● for nothing, but for the extremity to be attempted, more favour were showed to the offender's apprehende● then if no such trouble had been feared, or apperin. If thou repliest, that greater offences are over seen such as favour our doctrine. I answer all those in mouth, did favour the same Euangil, which we profess. The cause of the strife did only arise, for the purity of life which ought inseparably to be joined with y● external proffession. I could recite more than one of those, that seemed to be then pillars in Geneva, as touching riches, world lie estimation, and liberality towards the poor, being also of the number of the strangears, who for suspicion of offences were, & remain to this day, some exiled some condemned to perpetual preson. for whose deliverance, and receiving to the Church again, there hath been offered greater sums, than perchance might entice an anabaptist to go the mass (I will not say to be a Papist) and yet have they obtained nothing. Now briefly to recite that which I have laid against thy first accusation, if thou be nether able to prove by our doctrine, nor writings, nether by our own lives, and conversations, nether yet by the lack of justice, in that city in which this doctrine is taught, received and maintained, with what face canst thou affirm, that we teach the people a careless, and libertine life? Hath ever any man more strongly, and more earnestly confuted those pestilent opinions of the libertines, then hath that man whom most ye accuse for this doctrine? Let his notable work written against the libertines, twelve years ago, be a testimony against your manifest malice. Thus have I in answering to your first accusation, answered some what to other crimes contained in all the four. Now in answering to your second, I will labour to touch, and put end to that which resteth in the other Ye accuse us, that we have no conscience, answer to the ● accusation. to deceive the people of God. for thus ye demand, why masters. (I know this phrase of old) have ye no conscience, thus to cause the people of God to sin, See ye not that ye be led with the same spirit, that Balaam was led with all, how he counseled, to give occasion of sin to the people of God, and so after that ye have taken all excuse, as ye think from us, ye boldly pronounce your sentence that the blood of such as perish, shallbe required of our hands. I hear the accusation very vehemently intended▪ but when I seek for the probation, of every part, I find none, but accusation followeth accusation. for still ye accuse us, that we are flatterers of sinners, that we take wicked men by the hand, that we heal them with this saying: there is none during this world, that can be known to be in the election, be he never so virtuous, nor any out of the election, be he never so unrighteous. after this manner (say you) do we heal them up, so that they need not to endeavour themselves to bring forth the fruits of lively faith. answer to the 3. 4. 5. & 6 These I say, be your accusations, the probation whereof, ye delay so long, that after ye never remember it. And so must your authority stand in force both to accuse, and be admitted for witness. But we must except against you, for two causes most reasonable, first because ye are our accusers, and our party adversary. secondarily because ye are venomous liars, persons defamed, and blasphemers of God. That ye are venomous and malicious liars, I have in divers places before sufficiently proved, how ye falsify, and pervert the plain Scriptures, how ye add to our words, and diminish from them, at your pleasure: and finally how that ye invent, and lay crimes to our charge, wihich ye be never able to prove, as here in this place, ye shame not to affirm, that we heal up the sores of those that be drowned in vices, with such words, as ye writ. We have had offenders in deed amongst us, (I mean in the congregations which ye accuse) of diverse sorts and diverse estates. Let any convict us that either in exhorting, admonishing, or in executing judgement, we ha●e used any such persuasion, or words to the offenders. But if the offender was to be admonished or exhorted, if we have not in gods name, exhorted them to walk as it became the sons of light: and if judgement was to be executed against them; if we have not used the rule of god's word, judging of the tree, not after the secret election of God, but according to the manifest fruits, pronoucing that member unworthy to abide in the body, whose corruption was able to infect the rest of the members, If this ordre I say, be so straitly kept amongst us that never sithence the days of the Apostles, was it more uprightly kept in any congregation. with what faces can ye say so that we take wicked men by the hand? that we teach them, that they need not to bring forth the fruit of a lively faith? ye allege that Christ affirmed, that a good man from the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth good things. And so do we and do no less affirm, than ye do, although in an other understanding (as I before have declared) that we must observe the commandment of Christ, if we will be known to appertain to him. We think it no assured nor certain sign of election, to be joined with this, or that congregation. We kuow that satan was once joined with the Angels, judas with Christ jesus, and many false brethren, with the company of the best reformed churches and chiefest Apostles. but wonder it is, that ye burden us with that, in this one case, which is your plain doctrine, which with tooth and nail ye defend. Do ye not plainly write that no man is so elected in Christ jesus, but that he may fall & utterly become a reprobate? and none is so reprobated, but by repentance he may be elected. The plain contrary whereof we teach. and maintain. O say you, ye mean of the signs, that they are never certain. I answer that in very deed sometimes the elect, as touching man's judgement, is like in estate with the reprobate. And again that sometimes the reprobate do beautifully shine in the eyes of men for a space, as exemples be evident. But yet I am sure, that you be never able to prove that we affirm, that in this life, no difference may be known betwixt the two. The end of our doctrine, tendeth to this but chief to prove, that from election cometh faith, from a lively faith do good works spring, in which the elect continuing and going forward, not only make they their own election, sure, as. S. Peter doth teach, but also give a testimony of it to others, before whom their good works do shine. And so by the contrary signs and effects, we affirm that the reprobate do manifest and utter themselves. And so I say that wonder it is, that ye burden us as that we should affirm, that no man can be known either to be in the election, or out of the election, during this life. But more wonder it is that ye affirm us to adduce these words of S. Paul: The devil doth transform himself in to an angel of light, for probation of our purpose. for I, for my own part do protest before the Lord jesus, that I never did so understand that place of the Apostle, nether yet think I that any of you be able to show, in any of our writings, those words adduced for probation of that purpose. True it is that I have long understand, and to this hour do understand, that by those words, would the Apostle admonish the Corinthians, and all others that suddenly they should not receive, and believe every person, & doctrine that offereth itself, under the cloak of justice, and of truth: but that diligently we should try the spirits from whence they are & whether they come, from God, or not. for if the devil the great angel of darkness enemy to mankind, and father to all falls prophets, can yet so transform himself, that for a time his purpose and intent are not seen, but that under the cloak of amity and love, he seeketh our destruction as in tempting the woman, doth plainly appear, how much more can his servants and soldiers, being deceitful workers transform them in to the Apostles of Christ, pretending at the first entre, nothing but love and justice, nothing but god's glory, nothing but mortification of the flesh, and such like, most beautiful pretences, although that yet these things be most far from their hearts. Thus I say do I, and with me, I am assured who so ever deeply do weigh the purpose of the Apostle, in that place, understand that sentence, and do not as ye falsely write, allege it to prove, that no man can be known to be either in the election, or out of the election during this life. It may be, that we have said and written, (as the truth is) that no man could have known, by the good works of that happy thief hanged with Christ, that he had been gods elect, before that in that anguissie, so instantly he began to defend Christ's innocency, so sharply to rebuke the other being a blasphemer: and humbly to submit himself, and pray, that Christ would remember him, Luke 23 when that he came in to his kingdom: And contrary wise that none could have defined by the evil works of judas, before his tresonable defection, from Christ jesus, which was but few days before his death, that he had been the reprobate. And what serveth this for your purpose? To the 6 how can ye hereby prove, that we are the sons of darkness, that we take the most shameful men by the hand, flattering them so, that they can not return from their wickedness, and so by our doctrine give occasion of sin to the people, declaring ourselves thereby, not to besent of God, etc. Are ye able to prove, that we teach the people, not to convert from their sins, and wicked imaginations, to to the last hour of their departure? do we promise to all thieves and murderers the same grace and favour, that David, Peter, and this thief found? I trust thy own conscience knoweth the contrary. To the 7 Permit or suffer we (be they never so high) manifest offenders to live amongst us, after their own appetites? And yet ashamest thou not impudently thus to writ: But such lips such letouse such disciples such masters for your chief Apollo's be persecutors, on whom the blood of servetus crieth a vengeance, So doth the blood of others more, whom I could name. But for asmuch as God hath partly already revenged their blood and served some of their persecutors with the same measure where with they measured to others I will make no mention of them at this time. Blessed be God the father of our Lord jesus Christ who so revealeth the things, that lie in secret, that hypocrites at length, how soever they dissemble for a time are compelled to notify, & bewray themselves. Before to some it might have appeared, that the zeal of god's glory, the love of virtue, the hatred of vice, and the salvation of the people, whom by us, ye judged to be blinded and deceived, had carried you headlongs into such vehemency (as ye be men zealous & fervent) that no kind of accusation was thought by you sufficenit, to make us odious, unto the people, lies against us imagined, were not only tolerable, but also laudable & holy, scriptures▪ by you willingly, and wittingly corrupted, did serve to defend gods justice, and his glory, with we by our doctrine oppugn & improve. But these your last words do bewray the matter, that in what soever faces you lift transform yourselves, your grief will appear to proceed from another fountain, This impr●ueth the opinion of that sect that say that they for their pure life are heard w●●n soever they pray. then from any of these which ye pretend, and I before have rehearsed. O the death of servetus your dear brother for whose deliverance your champion Castalio solemnly did pray, with whom, if once ye could have spoken, that kingdom, which ye hope for, had begun to be enlarged, his blood I say, with the blood of others, I think ye mean of your prophetess jone of kent, do cry a vengeance in your ears, & hearts, that none other cause do you see of the shedding of the blood of those most constant martyrs of Christ jesus, Thomas Crammer, Nicholas Redley Hugh latimer, john Hooper, john Rogers, john Bradfurth, and of others more, But that God hath partly revenged their blood, The adversary justifieth the cruel murdering of Thom. Crammer Nicolas Ridley, etc.. that is of your great prophet and prophetess, upon their persecutors, and hath served them with the same measure, with the which they served others, I appeal to the judgement, of all those that fear God, what is thy judgement, and the judgement of thy faction, of that glorious Gospel of Christ jesus, which of late, hath been suppressed in Englod, what is thy judgement of those most valiant soldiers and most happy martyrs of Christ jesus, upon whom, o blasphemous mouth thou sayest, God hath taken vengeance, which is an horrible blasphemy in the ears of all the godly, I will not now somuch labour to confute by thy pen, as that my full purpose is to lay the same to thy charge if I shall apprehend the in any common wealth where justice against blesphemers may be ministered, as god's word requireth. And hereof I give the warning, lest that after thou shalt complein, that under the cloak of friendship, I have deceived the. Thy manifest defection from God, and this thy open blasphemy, spoken against his eternal truth and against such as most constantly did suffer, for testimony of the same, have so broken and desolved all familiarity, which hath been betwixt us, that although thou were my natural brother I durst not conceal thy iniquity, in this case. But now to the matter. I have before proved you malicious, and venomous liars, & therefore unworthy to bear testimony against us. Now resteth to be proved, that ye are blasphemers of God, and persons defamed▪ Solomon affirmeth, that, Pro. 17 he that justifieth the wicked and he that condemneth the innocent, are alike abomible before God. Which sentence is not to be understand of judges only, but is to be referred to every man: for of every one doth God require, that he hate, and in his heart and mouth condemn, that which God himself hath condemned: and also that he allow, and justify, that which God pronounceth just, lawful, and holy. And if the contrary be found even in a multitude, God doth not only punish the chief offenders, but also upon their favourers, maintainers, and justifiers, doth he commonly power the same plagues and vengeance. And hereof is that rare, Num. 16 and fearful punishment taken upon Dathan and Abiram, sufficient proof, for they joined with Corah, were the authors of the conspiracy raised against Moses and Aaron. But did they alone sustain the vengeance? No but their households, children, wives, tents, and substance in the same contained, did the earth in a moment devour, and swallow up. And why? because they did justify the cause of those wicked, and in so far in as in them lay did maintain the same. No man I trust will deny, but that he who killeth an innocent man, is a murderer, although it be under the cloak of justice. But that he, who having lawful authority to kill, and yet suffereth the murderer to live, is a murderer, in this perchance some men may doubt. But if the law of God be diligently searched, this doubt shall easily be resolved. For it will witness, that no les ought the murderer, the blasphemer, and such other to suffer the death, then that the meek and the fearer of God should be defended. And also that such as maintain and defend the one, are no les criminal before God, than those that oppress the others. One example I will adduce for all, God gave in to the hands of Achab, 1. King, 23. Benhadad king of Syria, who was great enemy to Israel, whom he upon certain conditions of amity sent home to his country. But what sentence was prononunced against Achab? Thus saith the eternal, because thou hast let go out of thy hands a man, whom I appointed to die, thy soul (that is thy lief, shallbe in the place of his life, and thy people in the place of his people. Now to you justifiers of servetus. servetus was an abominable blasphemer against God, An argument that proveth th● adversaries to be like blasphemers as was servetus. and you are justifiers of servetus. therefore ye are blasphemers before God, like abominable as he was. The mayor I intent shortly to prove, so far as shallbe sufficient at this tyme. The minor ye do not deny for some by apologies, some by books, and all by your tongues, do justify his cause, and the conclusion is infallibly gathered of the former words of the holy Gost. Ye will not easily admit that servetus be convicted of blasphemy. for if so be, ye must be compelled to confess (except that ye will refuse God) that the sentence of death executed against him, was not cruelty, nether yet that the judges, who justly pronounced that sentence, were murderers nor persecutors: but that this death was th● execution of god's judgement, and they the true and faithful servants of God, who when no other remedy was found, did take away iniquity from amongst them. That God hath appointed death by his law without mercy to be executed upon the blasphemers, is evident, by that which is written Leviticus 24. Leu. 24. But what blasphemy is, may some perchance doubt. If righteously we shall consider & weigh the scriptures, we shall find that to speak basphemie or to blaspheme God, is not only to deny, that there is a God, but that also it is, lightly to esteem the power of the eternal God, to have, or to sparse abroad, of his majesty such opinions as may make his God head to be doubted of. To departed from the true honouring, & religion of God, to the imagination of man's inventions. Obstinately to maintain, and defend doctrine & diabolical opinions, plainly repugning to God's truth. To judge those things, which God judgeth necessary for our salvation, not to be necessary. And finally to persecute the truth of God, and the membres of Christ's body. Of the first and second sort, both was Sennacherib, and proud Rabsases', who comparing God with the Idols of the Gentiles, did not only lightly esteem his godly power, but also so, far as in them was, studied to take out of the hearts of the Israelites, all right and perfect opinion of God. At whom the Prophet in the person of God, demandeth this question, whom hast thou blasphemed? Of the third sort were both Israel and juda, declining to idolatry against God's express commandment whom the Prophets so often do affirm to blaspheme the holy one of Israel. Because, saith Isaiah they have repudiated, the Law of the Lord of hosts, and the word of the holy one of Israel, contumeliously have they blasphemed. And Ezechiel, after that he hath most sharply rebuked the Israelites for their idolatry, he addeth: yet in this your fathers have blasphemed me, though they had before grievously transgressed against me for when I had brought them into the land, for the which ● lifted up my hand to give it them, they saw every high hill and all the thick trees, and they offered there their sacrifices, and there they presented their offering, etc. Of the fourth sort were Hymeneus, and Alexander, whom Paul gave to the devil, that they should learn not to blaspheme, 〈…〉 Of the ●ift sort, were the multitude of the jews, who judged, and to this day do judge the death of Christ jesus, his blessed ordinance, the public preaching of his Euangil, and the administration of his Sacrements, to be nothing necessary to our salvation. And of the last, doth not Paul deny himself, to have been a blasphemer, 1. 〈…〉 and a persecuter before his conversion. Now, if I shall plainly prove the most part, yea all these (except, ye will say, he shed no man's blood) to have been in your great prophet servet ●, yea yet to be in you all of the anabaptistical sort, have I not sufficiently proved both him, and you blasphemers? Albeit I be more near of his, and your counsel, them any of you doth know or suspect, yet will I not utter, at this present, all that I can, but will abide till such opportunity, as God shall offer unto me, to notify his, and your poison to the Church of God, that of the same, the godly may be ware. For this present, I say first, that servetus, whom you justify, did maintain, and by word and writing, dispersed, abroad wicked, and most devilish opinions of God, which might not only make his Godhead to be despised, but also called in doubt, and question. He judged those things nothing necessary to salvation, which Christ hath commanded and ordained. And last, that impugning the true religion, The blasphemous errors of Serve 〈◊〉. he did most obstinately maintain his diabolical erroes, & did resist the plain truth to the death. His erroneous opinions of God & of his eternal Godhead were these. Whosoever believeth any trinity in the essence of God, hath not the perfect God, but gods imagined, and elusion of devils. That Christ is the Son of God, only in so far as he is be gotten of God, in the womb of the virgin, and that not only by the power of the holy Spirit, but because that God begat him of his own substance. That the word of God descending from the heaven, These be the detestable errors o● Ioha● of Ken●. is now the flesh of Christ, so that the flesh of Christ, is from the heaven▪ further that y● body of Christ is the body of the Godhead, the flesh of God, godly, and heavenly as it that is begotten of the substance of God. That the soul of Christ is God, and that the flesh of Christ is God, and that aswell the flesh as the soul were in the very substance of the Godhead from all eternity. That God is the father of the holy Gost. That Christ having the participation of the Godhead or of God, and participation of man, may not be called a creature, but one that doth participate with creatures. As the word descended into the flesh of Christ, The adversaries look also ●o be Christ's at length. so did the holy Ghost descend in to the souls of the Apostles. That Christ so long as he was conversant in the flesh received not the new spirit, which he was to receive after his resurrection. That in all men from the beginning, is engrafted the spirit of the Godhead, even by the breath of God, & yet may the spirit, by the which we be illuminated, The pr●s●n● error of the anabaptists That the substantial Godhead is in all creatures. That the soul of man, although it be not God, it is made God by the spirit, which is God himself. That the soul is made mortal by sin, even as the flesh is mortal, not that the soul returneth to nothing, as nether doth the flesh, but that it dieth, when that it is deprived of lively actions. And that it is holden in hell languishing, as that it should never after live but these that be regenerated have another soul, then that they had before: because of the substance which is renewed, & for the godhead which is joined. That a like it is to baptize an infant as to baptize a● ass or a stone, That there is no mortale sin committed, before the age of twenty years. These I have thought sufficient to produce at this present, to let the reader understand, that it is not without cause, that I say, that servetus, whom ye justify is a blasphemer. I have omitted things more horrible, & grievous, to avoid the offence of godly readers. which sodanly, I am not minded to manifest, except that I shall understand that your venomous tongues be not stayed by these. I appeal to the conscience of Castalio himself, if in every one of these former propositions, which concern the Godhead, there be not contained horrible blasphemy. For what is more blasphemous, then to affirm, that such as believe in the Godhead, three distinct persons, have no true God, but the illusion of the devils. That Christ jesus, is not the eternal son, of the eternal father, that there is no distinction betwixt the father and the Son, but in imagination only. That Christ hath no participation of man's nature, but that his flesh is from heaven, yea that it is the flesh of the Godhead. That in Stocks, stones and all creatures, is the substantial Godhead. If these (I sa●e) be not blasphemies worthy of ten thousand deaths, especially being obstinately maintained against all wholesome admonition? let all those that fear God judge: yea even you yourselves, how furious that ever ye be, judge in the matter, even as ye will answer before the throne of the Lord jesus. That contempteously he spoke of baptizing of the children, of the public preaching of the evangel, and of the administration of the lords supper, that have you common with him. for this is your glory, and persuasion to all your scholars, that these things be nothing necessary to salvation, yea most straightly ye inhibit all of your sect to frequent any congregation, but your own. And whether this be blasphemy of your part, or not, to affirm those things nothing necessary, which Christ jesus hath established, and commanded to be used in remembrance of him, to his again coming, I am content that judgement be referred even to those that be most indifferent betwixt us and you. To supersede the rest of your blasphemies I return to your book, because that after I purpose to speak of your holy conversation, and of the great perfection, that is found in you. To tha● which resteth in the 7 Ye accuse us that we have written books in a perpetual memory, of our cruelty, affirming it to be lawful to put to death such as dissent from us in religion. Notwith standing, that some of us were of an other mind before they came to authority▪ and further that we have given the sword in to the hands of bloody tyrants. True it is that books are written, both by you & by us. for your master Bellius affirmeth, that lawful it is not, to the civil magistrate, to use the sword against heretics. To whom that godly learned man Theodorus Beza hath answered. In which if you or your master think not yourselves fully answered, ye may put pen to the paper, when you list, looking to receive answer with convenient expidition. john Calvin hath besides committed to writing, the examination of servetus, and the cause of his miserable death, which books albeit to you, they be a perpetual memory of cruelty, yet I have good hope, that to our posterity, they shallbe profitable (as now to us, be the godly labours of those, that before us have foghten the same battle against the obstinate heretics) And further seeing both you, and we, must abide the sentence of one judge, we can not greatly fear the prejudice of your faction. Where ye ask if these be the sheep, which Christ sent forth in the mids of wolves. And if the sheep can per secute the wolves, To the 6 question answered by a question. and I demand for answer whether Moses was a sheep or a wolf, & weather that fearful slaughter executed upon idolaters without respect of persons was not as great a persecution, as the burning of servetus, and joan of kent. To me it appeareth greater. for to them was granted no place of repentance, no admonition was given unto them, but with out further delay or question, Le●. 32 was the brother commanded to kill the brother, yea the father not to spare the son. I think verily that if judgement should be referred unto you, that that then should Moses and the tribe of Levi be judged wolves, sent to d●uore innocent sheep. But because we know what God hath allowed, we the les fear the judgement of man. If ye claim any privilege b● the coming of the Lord jesus, himself will answer that he is not come to break nor destroy the Law of his heavenly father. Where further ye ask if Abel did kill Cayn or David Saul, or he which is born of the spirit, did kill him which is borne of the flesh? I answer, if your question be of Abel, David and Isaak, in their proper persons, that none of them did kill any of these forenamed. But if thereof ye infer no more, is it lawful for any of gods elect, How anabaptist disabuse the name of conscience. to kill any man, for his conscience sake. I answer, that if under the name of conscience ye include what soever seemeth good in your own eyes, that then ye affirm a great absurdity, manifestly repugning aswell to gods law, as to the examples of those, whom God hath hieghly praised, in his holy Scriptures. But because continually ye claim to your conscience, to remove from you that vain coverture. I ask if the murderer, adulterer, or any other malefactor, should be exempted from punishment of the law, although he allege, that he did all thing of conscience? I trust ye will confess, that he ought to be mocked, that will claim the patrociny of conscience, when that he doth plainly offend against gods will revealed. And why will ye not grant asmuch in this matter, which now standeth in controversy? because (say you) external crimes have no affinity with matters of religion. for the conscience of every man is not a like persuaded in the service and honouring of God, Shifting of anabaptists. nether yet in such controversies as gods word hath not plainly decided. but I ask if that be a just excuse, why pernicious errors shall be obstinately defended, either yet that gods established religion shall be contemptuously despised? To make the matter more plain, Israel and judah were not both of one mind, in the honouring of God, after that the ten Tribes departed from the household of David, yea juda in the self was often corrupted, with pestilent idolatry. in somuch that the fathers did offer their children to Moloch. which I am assured they did not without some zeal, which they thought to be good conscience. But not withstanding those controversies, divers opinions, and forged consciences at their own appetites, Helias did kill the priests of Baal. Answer to th● shifting & was● he borne I pray you of the flesh? or was he not rather regenerated by gods holy spirit? Io●ias did kill all the priests of the high places, & did burn men's bones upon their altars, and was he I beseech you brother to cain, 2. King 2●. or rather fellow heir of the Kingdom promised with Abel. But that he was gods most faithful King, after David, I trust ye will not deny, except that ye will say as before, boldly ye have affirmed of other, that God revenged blood with blood, in that he suffered him to fall in battle. But the Spirit of God speaking in the prophet jeremy, is more mild of judgement, for he absolveth him, and doth affirm that he was taken away for● the sins of the people. Consider these things, and convict us, if ye can by scriptures. We say the man is not persecuted, for his conscience, that declining from God, blaspheming his Majesty, and contemning his religion obstinately defendeth erroneous & false doctrine. This man I say lawfully convicted, if he suffer the death, pronounced by a lawful Magistrate, is not persecuted (as in the name of servetus ye furiously complein). but he suffereth punishment according to gods commandment pronounced in deuteronomy, the XIII. chapter. D●●. 13. To put end to these your calumnies for this time, two things I would require of you. To t●e. 6 First, that thus foolishly ye abuse not the name of conscience, Conscience must ●estayed upon gods word. which you say constraineth you to write, to the end that ye might awake us out of our dreams. Conscience for assurance of the self, in well-doing, must have a testimony of gods plain will revealed. which ye shall not find to be your assurance, that so odiously ye may accuse us of those crimes, whereof ye be never able to convict us. The second is, that by plain scriptures, and solid reasons ye study to confute our doctrine, and not by raging words spoken as it were, by men in a frennesie. you shall never be able to prove, either that our doctrine is poisoned, either yet that we draw the people to a secure idle, and careless lief. Blessed be God the father of our Lord jesus Christ who of his mere mercy hath caused our doctrine, somewhat to fructify, our good hope is, that with us, and his afflicted Church, he will continue his father lie favour, in such sort, that from time to time, he will leave documents, to the aeges following, that his heavenvly doctrine is not sent in vain. To him be glory forever. Now to that that followeth in your book. THE ADVERSARY▪ Now to that which ye say, The 28. section. Malac. 2. that Adam, and David even in committing of Idolatry, homicide, all kind of wickedness, they be st●l in god's favour. mark▪ I pray you how the saying of the prophet Zacharie is verified in you. In this saith he, ye gri●●e the Lord that ye say, They tha● do evil are good in the sight of God, and such please him, can there be any thing more manifestly spoken against your error, and truly it seemeth to me, that ye would entice the people by this doctrine to sin, for if the elect lose not the fa●or of God by sin nether the repobate forasmuch, a● ye say, never were nor can be in h● fa●or, so that they can not lose that which they have not. who needeth to fear then to lose the favour of God by sin. It is no matter then what we do, but contrary to your doctrine, we be taught by the hol●e Ghost in the word that God hateth all works of iniquity, and he that committeth sin is o● the devil And doth God favour them that be membres of the devil. Paul saith no unclean person hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God, them was Adam when he transgressed not of the Kingdom of god for he was an unclean person defiled with sin. If he was n●t of the kingdoms of God, them was he of the kingdom of the devil, & so was he out of the election. even as Adam did saith the Lord, Ose ● so have they broken my covenant and set me at nought. If Adam in breaking the lords covenant, setting God at nought, was still beloved of God, then may we say with the wicked as it is written. It is but lost labour to serve the Lord what profit have we for keeping his commandments▪ Therefore may we● say that the proud are happy, a●d that they which deal with ungodliness are set up Such a sp●rit have ye careless libertines, as your doctrine well declareth. did not God threaten Adam, that in what day so ever he should eat of the fruit, he should die the death. not only corporal but also eternal. They which forsake the commandments of God forsake God himself, as the Prophets say th' they are not the Lords for they have unfaithfully forsaken him, Wherefore Adam when he forsook God was not the Lords but the servant of death and sin, to whom soever ye commit yourselves as servants to obey, saith Paul his servants ye are, to whom ye obey, whether it be of sin unto death, or obedience unto righteousness. And again if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, the same is none of his, and n●ther Adam nor David were led by the spirit of Christ, when they sinned for the spirit of Christ dwelleth not in such as forsake him, & obey the devil & except Christ saith the apostle dwell in you ye are cast away, then Adam & David were cast àwaies that is reprobates when they sinned for nether were they in Christ nor Christ in them in whom the election of God was & is but to what purpose should I thus contend with you that Adam did f●lle out of the election seeing in this ye agree not yourselves. for your congregation which is a● Gen●ua in the confession of their faith, say that of the lost sons of Adam God elected some to life and the rest he refused. E●her improve their be●efe or else confess with them that all the children of Adam were lost by transgression. If they were lost▪ then were they out of the election with their father▪ Adam from th● transgression unto the prom●s was made Therefore saith Paul damnation came of one sin unto condemnation & in an other place like as by Adam all die. even so by Christ▪ shall all be made alive, Here doth the Apostles witness pla●nely▪ that we all by Adam do die S. john saith h● that believeth not is already condemnedand the wrath of God abideth on him. Then were Adam and David, and all such workers of iniquity for that time that they si●●ed already condemned being void, of faith And could they be in the ●●ate of condemnation & election both together▪ hearken what followeth, and▪ the wrath of God abideth on him as Adam from the transgression v●to th● promise felt the force of the wrath of God, Thus we 〈◊〉, tha● Adam and David and all other 〈◊〉 they sinned ●hey be out of the lou● and favour and election of God, unto they repen●, and be b●rn● a n●w. for otherwise can they never enter into the kingdom of heaven. Again, S john saith, ye know that no mansl●y● are hath, eternal life abiding in him, David was a man killer, wherefore he had not eternal lief abiding in him. But during the tim● of his wickedness he was the child of death, as the Prophet Nathan shewed him, David gluing judgement against himself▪ without faith it can not b● that any man should please God, Adam, and David when they sinned they were without faith, then pleased they not God. If they pleased him not, they displeased him so that they were fallen from the love, and fluor of God. ANSWER. Albeit that I perceive that either ignorance doth so impede you, or else that malice doth so blind you, that nether ye will nor can understand that, which in the self is most sensible & plain, I will never theles yet once again repeat, that which before I have said to the end, that we may give testimony, aswell, to those that now live, as unto the posterity to come, what doctrine it is, which ye so furiously impugn. If ignorance be the cause why thus ye rage against us, ye may be taught, if ye list to bestow your ears to hear, your eyes to read, & hearts to understand. for o● doctrine is not as some of you do complein, dark nor obscure, except that it be, to those to whom the Apostle affirmed, that his Euamgill was hid. But if that malice which ye have conceived against the eternal truth of God, Answer. to the ●. 2. 3. doth so blind you that ye will not see the bright son in the midday, there resteth no more to us, but to desire of God either to remove this your devilish malice (I writ as knoweth God even from the grief of heart): or else so to stay & bridle it, that it trouble not his afflicted Church. Ye accuse us, as that we made no difference betwixt vice & virtue, sin, and justice, nether yet betwixt Adam, and David, as they were elected in Christ jesus before the foundations of the world were laid, and betwixt Adam transgressing, and David committing adultery, and murder. Ye further seem to charge us as we should affirm, that God hated not sin, nether yet that he respected vice. If our short, plain, and unfeigned confession, be able to satisfy you in these three doubts I have good hope that after this ye shall have no occasion to suspect us in such causes. Our confession touhing sin. first before God, before his holy Angels in heaven, & before his congregation in earth, we protest & acknowledge, that sin, vice, and all kind of iniquity, is, and ever hath been so odious, in the presence of God, that he never suffered the same unpunished, in any of his elect children. That for the same not only death, but also common calamities hath apprehended all man kind even sithence the first trasgression. That virtue, T●●ching virtue and justice ●●uil. justice, and civil honesty (besides the justice of the regenerate children) hath so pleased God▪ that for love of the same, he hath maintained and to this day doth maintain common wealths, albeit that many grievous crimes be committed in the same. As God (we say and affirm) loveth equity, justice, chastity, truth, mercy, and temperance, so doth he in some sort hieghly reward the same, and hateth unrighteousness, filthy life deceat, excess, cruelty, and ria●ous living, which often he punisheth even in manne● eyes. And this difference, we say God maketh even amongst those, that be not regenerate, nether were ever called to the true knowledge of salvation. And this much briefly for the first second and 3. This difference we make betwixt Adam and David elected, in Christ jesus, and Adam and David transgressing gods holy commandment, and will revealed▪ Adam and Dau●d elected, in Christ jesus before the foundations of the world were laid, were so loved in the same Lord jesus their head, that when they had most horribly fallen and offended, yet did God seek Adam, call upon him gently reason with him and at length convicting his conscience of his offence, did make unto him, that most joyful promise of reconciliation: of the same love (we say it proceeded) that God did send the Prophet Nathan to David, the offender, that by the fiction of an other person, he letteth him see the horror of his sin, that he did first terrify, and beat down his conscience: and after most tenderly did erect, and lift it up from the pit of desperation. All these graces (say we) proceeded from gods immutable love which did remain constant, 〈◊〉 and i● whom God loveth sinners even when ●hey have offended. both towards the one and towards the other, even in the time of their greatest unthank fullness. And that because they neither were beloved, nor elected in themselves, but in Christ jesus their head, who nether did transgress nor offend in any jot, against the will of his heavenly father. But Adam and David transgressing and horribly falling from God, were so hated in themselves, and for their sins, that first behoved the innocent Son of God, by his death to make a satisfaction▪ for their sins▪ as also for the sins of all gods children. And secondarily we say, preach write, and maintain, that the sin was so odious before God, that his justice could do none other, but inflict upon Adam, and his posterities The penalty of death corporal, How odious is sin in g●ds presence. the punishments, and plagues, which daily we do see apprehend gods children. that upon David, he did execute his just judgement, which in these words he pronounced. Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house, because, thou hast despised me, and taken the wife of uriah the Hittite, to be thy wife. Thus saith the lord: behold I will raise up evil against the out of thine own house, and I shall take thy wives before thine eyes and give them unto thy neighbour and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of sun. for thou diddest it secretly, but I shall do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun. This sentence, ●. Sam. 12 I say, most justly pronounced, was after most sharply, and yet most justly) for sin committed) put in▪ execution. And so do we affirm that none of gods children be they never so dear, shall escaip punishment, if contemptuously they transgress. I suppose that this our confession nothing doth offend you, except in this one thing that we affirm that God still loved Adam and David after their sin, before that his holy Spirit wrought in their hearts any true repentance. And yet I wonder why this should offend you, seeing that we assign the cause, not to be themselves, nether any virtue with in themselves, but Christ jesus, in whom they were elected and chosen. The signs of gods love, we have evidently proved, and the end and issue did witness that gods love was not mutable. If you require scriptures, for the probation of the same. Behold they are ready. if when we were enemies we were reconciled unto God, by the death of his son, much more we being reconciled shallbe saved by his life. Rom. 5. And a little before in the same chapter. When we were sinners Christ died for us, etc. And the Apostle john: herein appeareth the love of God towards us, that his only begotten son hath he sent in to the world, that we may live by him: herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us. And hath sent his Son in the mercieseat▪ for our sins. These are very plain, and we think that no reasonable man will deny to Adam and to David, that which the holy Ghost maketh common to all gods elect children, to wit, to be beloved of God▪ even when they were enemies, dead in sin, drowned in idolatry, and polluted with all filthiness, as witnesseth the Apostle in these words: And you when ye were dead by sin, Ephe. ● in the which ye sometimes walked, according to this world, according to y● prince, to whom power is the air, which is the spirit now working in the rebellious children, The vnspea●kable lo●● of God towards his elect. amongst whom we all had sometimes conversation, in the lusts of our flesh, doing those things, which pleased the flesh, and the mind, and were of nature the sons of wrath like as others. But God who is rich in mercy, for his own great love, by the which he loved us, even when we were dead by sins (mark, and if ye be offended, complein upon the holy Ghost) hath qwickened us together with Christ (by grace ye are saved) and hath raised us up together with him, and together with him, hath caused us to sit amongst the heavenly, by Christ jesus, to show in the ages to come, his most rich grace in his liberality, by Christ jesus. God open your eyes that you may see the light, and mollify your hearts, that ye may magnify with gods children his superabundant love and mercy bestowed even upon the most unworthy. If ye think that this love hath only place before that man offend, you see the holy Ghost plainly repugneth to your sentence, for he speaketh to them that had been polluted & defiled with all sins. ●epli● If yet ye reply, but that was during the time of their ignorance and not after they were illuminated by grace, ye have said nothing against our confession. for we affirm that God loveth sinners being wrapped in death and damnation by sin. 〈◊〉 and that we have plainly proved. But yet for your satisfaction, and instruction (for I take to record the Lord jesus that I would bestow my own life, to join you fully to Christ jesue) I will proceed a little further with you▪ Do ye think that the sin of David touching the nature and quality of the sin itself, was more horrible and odious be fore God, then were all the sins committed in Ephesus, by those, to whom the Apostle writeth? yea then the ●innes which were done amongst the hole Gentiles? I trust ye will not think it. and we clearly see that God loved the elect in Ephesus and amongst the Gentiles when they were drowned in all kind of iniquity. If still ye reply David was unthankful who after so many benefits received, so traterously declined from God, following his own appetites, and of purposed counsel, murdering his innocent servant, and the with great ignominy of God. This nether do, nether yet ever did we deny. but yet as y● question is other, so is not our confe●●ion proved falls, Albeit David was unthankful (yea and after Adam most unthankful, of any of gods children to his days). for herein standeth the doubt, whether y● the unthankfulness of gods children, after they have once received mercy, grace, and large benefits from gods hands, doth so alienat the mind of God, from them, that he beareth to them no manner of love, till they turn to him by repentance The contrary hereof, we hold, and affirm, not fearing to avow, that repentance, Faith & repentance are the effects of gods lo●e which he bears to his elect in Chri●● lesus. as it is joined with faith which is the free gift of God, so is it the effect of gods constant love toward them, and no cause of the same. And for the more ample declaration hereof, let us compare the denial of Peter, and the defection of all the Apostles, with the sin of David. Albeit Peter was not called to be a wordly prince, as David was, yet I think ye will not deny, but to be called to the office of an Apostle, to be Christ's scholar the space of three years, to be so familiar with Christ, that he alone with other two did see Christ their master transfigured, did hear y● joyful voice from heaven▪ did se Moses and Helias speak with him, my trust is, I say, David's offence compared with Peter's denial of Christ that ye will not deny, but that those were graces no thing inferior to David's kingdom temporal: and yet how horribly that Petet did deny Christ jesus, ye are not ignorant. Yea but say ye, Peter wept, and sought grace with repentance. But I ask when? the holy Ghost doth answer, that it was after the cock had crowen, and that Christ jesus had looked unto him. proceeded that look I beseech you from love, or hatred? It should seem in deed, by the effect, that it came from love. for than it is said that Peter remembered the words of his master and so went forth and wept bitterly. By all liklihode, than were his master's vordes before qwyte blotted out of his memory. But God be praised, we need not to depend upon uncertain conjectures. The fall and denial of Peter (as in an other place we have declared) came not by chance, as a thing, whereof Christ jesus was ignorant. He did foresee it, and before speaketh it. And what comfort gave Christ jesus unto him▪ before he pronounced that sharp sentence, before the cock crow thou shalt deny me thrice. This comfort I say, which ought of all faithful most to be extolled: Simon, Simon, behold Satan hath desired you, that he may sift you as wheat, but I have prayed for thee, Luke ●2 that thy faith fail not: and thou being converted confirm thy brethren. Did Christ pray for Peter, knowing that he should deny him? so he affirmeth. Doth the prayer of Christ jesus and the effect thereof vanish in a moment? God for bid, that such impiety take place in our hearts. The Apostle doth witness that as his sacrifice is ever recent before God, so is his prayer effectual ever for his elect. Doth God utterly hate detest, and abhor such, as for whom Christ jesus prayeth? yea commendeth to his mercy, before they fall i●n to danger? my hope is that the godly will not so judge. The same I might prove by the stout denial of Thomas (besides the defection of all the rest) who after that the glad tidings of Christ's resurrection, God can not hate such as Christ prayeth for. was confirmed by the testimony of many, did obstinately say, except that I put my fingers in the holes, etc. I will not believe. Here ye see was no repentance of his former infidelity, but rather an augmentation, and increase of the same. And did it proceed from love, or from hatred, that Christ cometh unto him, and doth offer to satisfy his curiosity, in all things, willing him to be faithful and not to remain an infidel? Consider now how simply and plainly, we have opened our minds unto you, God grant you his holy Spirit rightly to understand, and charitably to interpret the things that be spoken, etc. Now will I briefly go through these scriptures which ye abuse, and violently wrest against us not making so long discourse to amend your judgement, as I have done tofore. For if things already spoken shall not profit, I must confess myself destitute of counsel, for this tyme. The words of the prophet (where necgligently ye name Zacharie for Malachi), Mala. 2. nether serve your purpose, nether yet are verified in us. for we be not as the priests, who in those days permitted plain iniquity, and contempt of God, and of his statutes, universally to be done by the people, and yet they did not oppone themselves to the same. Read the Prophet and con●ict us of those things if ye can. We are sorry, that ye have no better opinion of us, To the 3 then that our hole study should be to entice the people to sin. Not that we do much fear, that by your words, ye can persuade any, except your own faction▪ (and hardly those) to credit you in that behalf. for all praise be to God, our lives, doctryn, and correction of vice, do witness the contrary. but our greatest sorrow is, for your condemnation, which doubtless must ensue such wicked judgement, if hastily ye repent not. As the Sun is not to be blamed, To the 4 Th● sun is not blamed because the carrion stinketh albeit the carrion by the heat thereof, be more and more corrupted: so is not our doctrine, although that carnal men, thereof take carnal liberty. for that ye know did ensue the doctrine of S. Paul. We do no les affirm both in word and writing them here you do affirm, to wit: That he who committeh sin, is of the devil. but herein I suppose standeth the difference, that you and we understand not that phrase alike. we understand that the man committeh sin, Rom. 6 To the 5▪ ●. I●a. ● What it is to commit sin. whose hole study, mind, and purpose from time, to time, is bend upon iniquity: and such do we affirm to be of the devil, who sinneth from the beginning. If you understand, that every action committed against the law of God, maketh a man the son of the devil, we must liberally speak that so we do not understand the mind of the Apostle. for plain it is that he meaneth not of actions particular, be they never so grievous, whereof a man after repenteth, and from the same desisteth: but of a continual exercise, delight, and study, which man hath in sin. And this is plain I say, The meaning of the place alleged 1. john 3 by the words which immediately proceed and go before, he that exerciseth justice (saith he) is just even as he is just: he that committeth sin is of the devil. for from the beginning the devil sinneth. Here is the exercise of justice put in contrariety to the committing of sin. An exercise we know requireh a continual study and practise. I think ye will not say, that one just work maketh a man just, and so consequently the son of God, except he proceed from justice to justice. The same say we must be understand of the committing of sin: for nether Adame, To the. 5. nor David did any longer commit their former sins, then by grace they began to repent. And so did they not remain unclean persons, nor in bondage of the devil. Neither yet can it be proved, that ever they were membres of the devil, nor of his kingdom, albeit willingly they made themselves slaves to him: whom Christ jesus notwithstanding did vindicate to himself, To the. 6. and deliver from that thraldom. Because of the free gift of God his father, they did appertain to his kingdom: nether ever be you able to prove by any of these sentences, that ever they were out of the election, as before is declared. The place of the prophet Oseas is of you evil understand▪ Os● 6. the lack of the hebrew tongue may be the cause of your error. And albeit your great, and perfect angel Castalio pretend great knowledge in that tongue, yet in that, as in many other places a child may espy his negligence. True it is that in the hebrew, this word Adam is in that place. But if we shall understand that word wheresoever it is found in the scripture, for the person of Adam our first father, we shall make a mad translation, and a sense more mad. Such as have, but mean understanding in that tongue do know, that that word is often common for any man, as in the prophets is most evident. The verity of the text is this, they have transgressed the covenant, How ●his word Adam in 6. cha. of ●seas oght to be understand. as the covenant of a man, they have rebelled against me etc. God compleineth upon Ephraim and juda, that they had no further respect, reverence nor regard to that most excellent covenant and league, which God had made with them, to wit, that he would be their God, and they should be his people. for God had preferred them to all nations of the earth, and had set them a part from others, to serve and honour him in holiness of lief, and to offer unto him rather spiritual than carnal sacrifice. But they served him at their pleasure: yea, and in that land which they had received of gods most liberal benediction, they did decline to Idolatry. for that he meaneth, where that he saith: there have they rebelled, that is, where that they most ought to be obedient. This I doubt not shall every man, who diligently marketh the scope of the prophet perceive to be his very meaning. Otherwies, To the● and more sharply I might have answered your ignorance, who can see no difference betwixt Adam once sinning, and yet shortly after by grace called to a new, and more sure league with God (which with all gladness and thankfulness he did receive) and the manifest contemners of God, which do nothing else, but delight in sin. form the which albeit, that ten thousand times they be called, yet contemning all society with God, their pleasure is, to remain in vanity, and so finally in death. This difference, I say ye ought to have observed, and then I doubt not, but that ye would have exempted Adam, from the rank of such as contemptuously cry, it is but labour lost to serve God. If diligently ye shall consider what is written in job, job 21 Mal●●. 3 and in Malachi the third cha. ye shall easily understand that the prophet there divideth the hole multitude, in these two sorts of men, to wit, in those that be proud obstinate contemners, and in them that feared the Lord, whom he calleth his peculiar people, whom he promised to spare, as a man spareth his son that serveth him. And one of this last sort understand we Adam to have been all his days, after his fall, and reconciliation by grace. The lord purge your hearts (if his good pleasure be) from that venom, which so oft moveth you to spew forth your own shame, sometimes crying: that we be led with the spirit of Balaam: and now affirming▪ that we be careless libertynes. To which blasphemies because I can neither answer without the sorrow & grief of heart, nether without some offence of godly ears, I will remit judgement to him, to whom as he hath from the beginning, opened things that for a time lay hid in darkness, so I doubt not, but that he will, yea and that shortly reveal unto the world with what spirits both you and we be led. when more occasion shall be offered, I purpose, if so it please the mercy of my God to assist me, to notify with what spirits you and your sect have been led here tofore. What soever ye gather of the words of the Apostle it is altogether out of the purpose. for in none of all those places doth he define & determine what Adam, To the 8 9 & ●0 and David were, when they had sinned, but plainly he declareth, what trial ought every man to take of himself▪ when Christ jesus is preached unto him, affirming that if any have not the spirit of Christ jesus, that he is not of his. but the spirit of Christ remaineth not in unclean and profane persons, say you. but yet I affirm that Adam and David ought not to be numbered in that band. for although they sinned, and that most horribly, yet did they not abide in that estate. And albeit they were not led with the spirit of Christ, when they sinned, yet they were both led, drawn, and governed by his omnipotent spirit, when they repented. And so can ye never be able to prove them to be reprobates, How Adam and David wer● never repr●bates no not even when they sinned: except that ye be able to prove, that they finally perished in sin. for this principal do I still hold, that true faith and true repentance (which the reprobate ●●uer have) be the fruits of Election. The place of the Apostle written in the 13. chapter of the second Epistle to the Corinthians, is neither well marked, nor rightly applied by you, neither yet will it suffer any such conclusion as ye gather of it. The mind of the Apostle is this: After the departing of Paul from Corinthus, where after many storms sustained, he had established the form of a Church, did enter in false Prophets, whose chief study was to elevate the authority of Paul and so to deface his hole labour, affirming that he was not worthy to be called an Apostle. for he was never in the company of Christ, others were of greater estimation and faour then he was. And as a multitude is ever more ready to receive poison than wholesome medicine, agreate number began to give ear unto them: and so began little to esteem, what so ever Paul had laboured amongst them. Against which unthankfulness▪ the Apostle very sharpley writeth, as in both his epistles doth appear. And amongst other his arguments, which he useth to prove that he was an Apostle, nothing inferior to the greatest, he adduceth themselves for a testimony, saying: Try yourselves if ye be in the faith, 2. Cor▪ 1● prove yourselves. know ye not yourselves, that jesus Christ is in you, except that ye be reprobates? By these words most sharp, and most vehement he laboureth to convict their conscience, that he was an Apostle, and that the proof of his Apostleship (as in an other place he doth affirm) was declared in them, as he should say: your false Apostles affirm, that I am not worthy of the name of an Apostle. but if the office of an Apostle be to preach Christ jesus, and if the true sign, The pl●ce of th● 13. chap. 2. Corin. declared that decerneth the true Apostle from the falls be, that Christ so potently worketh by his ministery, that Christ jesus taketh possession in the hearts of the hearers by the true preaching of his word, then be judges yourselves whether I be an Apostle or not. Call your conscience to examination, in what estate I did find you. were ye not drowned in all sorts of iniquity? did ye not walk in darkness, without any true light of God? And in what estate did I leave you? Try and examine yourselves in what estate ye do yet stand, you can not be unsensible, you can not be so ignorant, but ye must know, whether that Christ dwelleth in you or no. If you will acknowledge, and con●es that Christ dwelleth in you, then must ye needs confess, that I am an Apostle. For by my labours and preaching did you receive Christ jesus. And if to deface my labours, and to defraud me of that honour, which God, of his mercy hath given unto me ye list deny, that either ye received Christ jesus, either yet that he remaineth in you, then do ye confess yourselves reprobates. Paul doth not absolutely define that they were reprobates, but putteth in to their choice, whether they would confess, that Christ jesus did remain in them by faith, which they had received by the preaching of Paul, and so would admit him to be an Apostle: or to grant, that they had nothing to do with Christ, and so to confess themselves reprobates. Now let the indifferent reader judge whether that either faithfully ye city the text, either that righteously ye conclude upon the same. The Apostle saith not, except that Christ dwell in you, you are reprobates, but saith, as before I have alleged, do ye not know yourselves that Christ jesus is in you? except that in some what ye be reprobates. And albeit that the words were such, as ye recite, how can you thereof conclude, David, and Adam were reprobates, when they sinned? seeing that Paul in that place maketh mention of no other sin, except of the denial of Christ, to remain in them, of their ingratitude towards him, whom God had appointed preacher unto them and of giving ear & credit to false Apostles, sclanderers of Christ's true messengers▪ how justly I might turn Paul's words upon your heads, you easily may espy: but all such reasoning I do from my heart abhor. If ye can be able to prove that Adam refused the grace offered, or that David did storm against Nathan, either affirming or suspecting him to be a falls prophet, than had your argument some probability. for only of such, and to such speaketh the Apostle in that place. Thus doth ●ther your ignorance, or malice wresting the scriptures against their native sense, compel me to trouble the reader much more than I would, if any sincerity were found in you. We do constantly affirm, To the 11 that by the sin of one man did death enter in to the world. for Adam did not only lose himself, but also did with himself wrap all his posterity in sin, death and damnation, so that Adam and all his sons were in him lost. But thereof it doth not follow (as ye affirm) that therefore they were out of the election, from the transgression unto the promise. for as before we have plainly proved, they were elected in Christ jesus before the foundations of the world were laid, in whom they did stand elected, and beloved even when they fell in Adam at which time the election which from all eternity was kept in the counsel of God, began to be notified, and manifested to man's knowledge. The fall and sin of man was the way and means, by the which gods election did appear, but was not the cause, It beh●ued all men to die in Adam. why that it was destroyed. And so if with reverence ye could consider the mystery of our redemption in Christ jesus, ye should plainly see, that it behoved all to die in Adam, that the elect might receive life in Christ jesus alone. The words of Christ jesus our master, To the 12. rehearsed by the Evangelist S. john, john: ye do shamefully abuse for in that place he entreateth not, whether a sinner during the time of his blindness and sin, is appointed to damnation or not, neither yet whether such as before have had knowledge, as Adam and David had, be altogether void of faith, by reason of sin after committed. None of these two points I say doth our Master in that place entreat. But unto Nichodemus he plainly declareth, that the cause of life is faith, and the cause of condemnation is incredulity and unbelief. Not that Christ jesus affirmeth, that every man that is unfaithful at any time is or shallbe condemned. for God hath wrapped all under unbelief. that he may have mercy upon all, as S. Paul confesseth himself to have been a persecuter, and unfaithful. But the true meaning of Christ is that such as despise the light offered, & remain inunbelief to the end, have their condemnation already appointed, as contrary wise who so ever with full obedience do steadfastly believe the same shall have the life everlasting, not withstanding the manifest tran sgressions of the law. The rest of this part is before answered and therefore I will not with repetition trouble the reader. for ye be never able to prove, To the, 13▪ 14. 15 &. 16. that Adame and David were so, out of the love of God, that he did not love them in Christ his Son, in whom they were elected. David was no such mankiller as was Cayn, of whom, Saint john speaketh, who delighted in blood to the end. Nether did Nathan show, nor David pronounce any such judgement against himself, as ye imagine, but being convicted in in his own conscience, how horribly he had offended, he did hear not withstanding that joyful sentence: The Lord hath taken a way thy sin, thou shalt not die etc. Which sentence no doubt proceeded from that immutable love, which was reserved to him in Christ jesus, even when he was farthest declined from God. It will be hard for you to prove by evident scriptures, that David was altogether void of faith. but granting, that he, as concerning his own sense, and feeling, was utterly dead, yet doth it not thereof follow, that so he displeased God, that he fell from the love and favour of God, as touching his election. for the Apostle (upon whose words ye seem to ground your reason) meaneth not, that the lack of faith, The lack of faith in all people d●●th not so displease God that he utterly rejecteth them in all persons, at all times, and in all respects, doth so displease God, that he hateth them, and rejecteth them to death everlasting. For children for a time lack faith, and yet Crist pronounceth that their Angels do see the face of his father, and that the kingdom of heaven appertaineth to such. Thomas was unfaithful even after Christ's resurrection. And yet did he not so displease his master, as before we heave touched, but that he did seke● him, and did remove his incredulity. And Christ jesus did rebuke the unbelief of his disciples, and the hardness of their hearts. but yet did he not utterly despise them. But now to the rest. ADVERSARY. But if the scriptures will not satisfy you, then must you be beaten with your own r●d. for if I grant you that all men did not fall out of gods holy election unto condennation by Adam's trāsgression, it followeth thereupon that the coming of Christ his procious death and passion is superfluous, vain and of none effect So by your perverse doctrine ye will infect Christianite with the chief error wherewith the jews be deluded, The 29. section. That 〈◊〉 they esteem it a great madness, to say that Christ should suffer death for the offence committed by Adam, even so may I collect of your error-for what needeth Christ to die for them, whom nether Adam's transgression▪ nether their own could make them fall from god's election. but now I will more largely dilate this argument, Election was afore the world when there was no sin, and the promise of Christ, was made sithense the world was created, because of sin for had not sin been we needed no new promise being already just and holy images of God. Now if the elect did not fall out of the election, by adam's transgression, than need they no redeemer, being already safe by reason of the election, in which they were afore sin, and remain still in the same. Because as you say the elect nether did, nor can fall out of the election. Then seeing the elect be safe and hold they need no physician, neither came Christ to call the righteous, but ●inn●rs. wherefore the death of Christ, as concerning them is in vain, they being safe already by election. The like argument useth Paul to the Galathya●s, if righteousness cometh by the Law, than Christ died in vain, if the elect▪ be st●ll in the favour of God what need they of Christ, to reconcile them to the father, in whose favore they are already Now as touching the other sort, whom ye call reprobates you say they can by no manner of means be saved. yea & that Christ died not for them, than was Chistes' death altogether in Vain▪ for his death you say belongeth not to the reprobate, and the elect have no need of it. Is not this godly gear: ANSWER. In dilating your argument by the which ye go about to prove that Christ's precious death was surperfluouse and vain, To the 1. & 2 if the elect did not fall from their election, this reason ye use. Election was afore the world when there was no sin, and the promise of Christ was made since the world was created, because of sin for had not sin been we needed no new promise being already just and holy images of God. Now if the elect say you, did not fall out of the election by Adam's transgression, than need they no redeemer, being already save by reason of the election in the which they were afore sin and remain still in the same. etc.▪ In this argument ye commit two fowl faults. The first, ye take that for a thing true, and confessed, which is false. and therefore by us always denied. for thus ye reason: man was elected before the world was created, but man sinned after the world was created, Ergo man fell from his election. we still deny the conclusion, and do affirm, that as we were elected in Christ jesus before all times, so did the elect ever remain in Christ. and therefore after that they had sinned, it behoved that the promise should be declared, that by the same the elect might receive comfort, and be assured of their election. Your second fault, more declareth your gross ignorance in the mystery of our redemption. for from election ye straight ways leap to glorification and salvation, observing nether mids nor means, which gods wisdom hath appointed, and determined to go betwixt True it is, God hath elected in Christ to life everlasting his chosen children. But how? Saint Paul yea the hole scriptures, wheresoever mention is made of our election, joineth therewith the death and blood of Christ. for none otherwies were we elected in him, but that he should sustain the punishment for our transgression. And that we should receive life, which we had lost in Adam and in ourselves, by the means of his death and resurrection. therefore where ye reason, if the elect did not fall out of the Election, by Adam's transgression, them need they no redeemer, being already saved, by reason of their election, the conclusion is false, and the reason vain. for the elect have need of a redeemer, Why the elect have need of a redeemer not because that they did fall out of election but by reason that they did fall from justice to sin, & from obedience to dissobedience & therefore need they a redeemer, a physician, and one to give them life. because that they being elect in gods eternal counsel are yet fallen into bondage into mortal sickness, & death, by their own transgression. If ye can prove that the elect did not sin, & that they are not sick, then might ye have concluded, that they needed no redeemer nor physician. To the 3 And so ye might have proceeded in your argument upon the words of the Apostle saying: that if righteousness cometh by the law, than Christ died in vain, but seeing that all gods children are fallen in to sin, the bondage and misery whereof, they in this lief continually feel, how justly ye may conclude, that because they remained in god's election, and so consequently in his favour by Christ, that therefore they needed no redeemer, let the indifferent reader judge. If it seem strange to you, that God loved sinners in Christ besides the places that are afore alleged for probation of that part, hear what the verity itself pronounceth: So God loved the world (saith our master) that his only begotten Son hath he given. whom soever ye shall understand under the name of the world, ye can not seclude sinners from it. where ye most unreverently ask, what then need they of Christ to reconcile them, I answer (with greater fear and reverence then alas you declare) even such need they have of Christ as the body hath of the soul, or yet the living man of wholesome nuriture, yea much more. for albeit the body have lief, by the means of meat and drink, yet have the elect nether lief nor reconciliation, but by Christ jesus, yea and that by the means of his death, and passion, by the which, just payment and satisfaction is made to god's justice, for their sins. And so are they reconciled, who by nature are the enemies to God. We do not deny but that Christ's death is sufficient for to redeem the sins of the hole world. To the 4 but because all do not receive it with faith, which is the free gift of God given to the chosen children, therefore abide th● unfaithful in just condemnation. God remit unto you (if his good pleasure be) aswell your unreverent conclusion as your most unjust accusation, in which ye burden us, that we will infect the Christianity with the chief error, with the which the jews are infected, who esteem it a great madness, to say that Christ should suffer death for the sins and offences committed by Adam. Assuredly I do more than wonder that such impiety shallbe found in any creature endued with reason, but I remit judgement to God. Thus you proceed. THE ADVERSARY. The Apostle saith, God hath from the beginning choose you to salvation through sanctifying of the the spirit and through believing the truth here we do learn that they which be chosen to salvation they be sanctified by the spirit and believe the truth, The 30. section. and that such may fall it appeareth by tha● which is written in the Epistle to the hebrews, Hebr. 1● how much more suppose you shall he be punished which treadeth under feet the Son of God, and counteth the blood of the testament, wherewith he was sanctified as an unholy th●ng and doth dishonour the spirit of grace, also he exhorteth them▪ not t● cast away their confidence and not to withdraw themselves unto damnation, h● which withdraweth himself unto damnation was afore in the state of salvation as he that withdraweth himself unto salvation was afore in the state of damnation. of this change speaketh Paul to the Ephesians: remember that ye being in times passed without Christ being aliens and strangers from the testament of promise having no ho●e and being without God in this world. but now by the means of Christ jesus y● which some time were far of, are made nigh by the blood of Christ. And again now therefore ye are no strangers and foroners, but Citizens with the Saints of the household of God. Here doth Paul write to the elect, whom he affirmeth in times past to have been without Christ: and we are sure that without Christ there is no election: he saith also that they were without the testament of promise; and all they which be elect pertain to the promise but now (saith he) ye be citizens with the saints and of the household of God, This is a change from death unto lief, from the bondage of the devil to liberty in Christ jesus, from the wrath of God to the favour and exceeding love of God, from the infernal preson to the the heavenly jerusalem. of the contrary exchange and mutation, He●r. 6 it is written to the Hebr. where it is declared, how they which were once lightened and had tasted of the heavenly gift, and were bec●̄ partakers of the holy Ghost and had tasted of the good will of God, and of the power of the world to come, that they may fall away, and crucify the son of God a fresh and make a mock of him. I can not tell what can be more plainly spoken contrary to you, which affirm that they which be once elect can never fall out of the same election, vnt● condemnation. for if these words were not wr●tten in the scriptures, if I or any other should speak than, ye would say they were false and we liars And yet I am sure rather than ye will submit yourself to the truth ye had rather seek an narrow bore to creep out at, what will ye say, if ye deny such one as received all these chief benefits, that any man can receive i● this world yea no man can be participant of no greater gifts during this lief if ye deny such one I say to be elect, surely ye are of a perverse reprobate mind, for asmuch as ye plainly resist the holy Ghost, think you that God giveth these his chief talents which he such as no creature can receive any greater in this world. think you I say, that God did bestow them mea●ing, to receive no fruit of them? but to bestow them in vain & if God did bestow them upon him whom he reprobated afore the foundation of the world. whom he knew that of necess●tie he should perish then did he intent bestow them in vain which is false for asmuch as the holy Ghost willeth and exhorteth us not to receive the grace of God in vain, we may abusing his grace receive it in vain otherwise in vain did Paul exhort us not to receive the grace of God in vain. 2. Cor. 6 of such doth also Peter speak▪ that after they were clean escaped from the filthy●e● of the world, 2. Per. 2 through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour jesus Christ are yet tangled again therein and overcome whose latter end● is worse than the beginning. And such one is compared to a dog which returneth to his own vomit again, And to a sow which wa● washed, and now returneth and walloweth in the mire. I pray you whether were these elected or reprobate, of whom Peter speaketh If you say reprobate that were they clean escaped from the filthiness of the world through the knowledge of the truth, and had vomited their poison, & were washed clean If you say they were elect, then mark how they be tangled again, returned to their vomit, & to the filthy mire, but you will say they can not yet finally perish▪ Peter knew what he would say, and therefore maketh you answer afore hand saying. their latter end is worse than the beginning Brethren saith S. james if any of you do err from the truth, jacob 5 & another convert him, let the same know that he which converteth the sinner from going astray out of his way shall save asoule from death. what be they whom james saith, they do err from the truth? If ye say reprobate, consider how they be converted to the truth, and saved from death. If you say they be elect you see how that they (being in error) were ord●inied to death Otherwise how can they be saved from death which nether be dead nor yet candy. ●. Tim. ● Paul willeth Timothy to inform with all meekness them which resist the truth, if God at any time will give them repentace for to know the truth and that they may come to themselves again out of the snare which are holden captive of him at his will. If thou say that these be elect to whom Paul writeth, see you not how they by s●ared of the devil yea ●nd are holden captive of the devil at his will. If you say they be reprobates them mark well how they by repentance may escaip the snare of the de●il. but what should I speak of repentance▪ if your opinion be true them the preaching of repentance is vain. for asmuch as the elect can not finally perish, nether fall out of the election & favour of God. what need have they then of repentance, And the reprobate can by no means attain unto salvation for what purpose should they repent? Then this is no sound doctrine, which ye t●ach. The lord planted his v●●yard hedged it and walled it and planted it with goodly grapes, jesa. 5 lere. ● If they were goodly grapes and of a good root, as we read in jeremy, then were they no repr●ba●es. for there the lord witnesseth that there could no more be done for his vinyeard than he had done, than had he not preordinate them to destruction. But (as he saith) I made the o● Israel that thou might serve me ye● became they reprobates, and perished by this we see that the elect and ch●sen become reprobates through their naughtiness and wickedness. The lord will be merciful unto jacob▪ Isa. 14 and will yet ch●se Israel again, and set them in their own land, Seing the lord doth chose them again, then were they fall●n out of their former election when Israel was young I loved him and called my son out of the land of Egypt, forasmuch as Israel was the son of God, and that also beloved insomuch that the lordled them with cords of friendship, and bonds of love they must needs, be ●he elect of God, yea because they provoked the lord through their abominations, they are cast away▪ and the lord rewarde●h them according to their deserts. ANSWER. If I should labour to the end of this your most confused work, to reduce every scripture by you wrested and abused to the true meaning and understanding of the holy Ghost as hitherto I have done in the most part of them, which ye have alleged, my travail should be great and the work should exceed a just measure. therefore seeing that sufficiently, by the plain scriptures of God, I have confirmed the doctrine, which we teach, believe, and maintain: and by the same truth of god's word I have confuted your error, from hencefurth I intent, only to to●che the proposition, which ye maintain: and by confuting the same, briefly either by scripture, or else by exemple to show in what sort ye wrongfully apply the scriptures, to maintain your error offering yet to satisfy, to my power, such as charitably shall ask of me, by word or writing further explanation of any scripture by you alleged, & by me at this time not fully resolved. The chief proposition which ye maintain to the end of this your book, is that the elect may fall from their election To the which I answer, that if ye understand, that those whom God the father hath elected in his eternal counsel, to lief everlasting in Christ jesus, The anabaptists hold that the elect may fall from their election. john 6 john 10 may so fall from their election, that finally they perish, if this (I say) be your understanding, than I fear not to affirm, that proposition to be utterly falls, erroneous, and damnable, as it that doth expressedly repugn to gods plain scriptures. for Christ jesus doth affirm that so many as his father hath given to him, shall come unto him, And to such as do come, he promiseth life everlasting which he hath in himself, for the salvation of his flock, whereof none shall perish, for forth of his hands, can none be pulled away. But because this before is largely entreated I come shortly to the scriptures which ye abuse. To the 1 2 & 3 First ye prove, that those which be elected, be sanctified by the spirit, 2. The 2 He●r. 10. and through believing of the truth which we confess to be most true. Thereafter ye allege that such, as be sanctified, may after dishonour the spirit of grace tredde down the blood of the testament, & so draw to damnation. I answer, the cause of your error is, that ye make no difference betwixt the sanctification, and lively faith, which is proper only to the sons of God, which once begun, is perpetual, and that sanctification, and faith, which is common to the reprobate, and therefore it is but temporal. If this distinction displeaseth you, quarrel with the holy Ghost, and not with us: for of his plain works, & words evident, have we received it. for all Israel were sanctified to be the kingly priesthood, all were circumcised, yea & did drink of that spiritual drink: and yet were they not all inwardly sanctified unto salvation & life everlasting. The hole tribe of Levy were sanctified to y● service of the Lord, in his tabernacle, but how many of them did still remain profane people, the scripture concealeth not. Even so all that great multitude, whom Christ fed in the wilderness, yea all those that adhered for a time to his doctrine, were after some manner sanctified, that is separated, & divided from the rest of the world. But that sanctification was but temporal, like as also was their faith. we do not deny but that the reprobate have some manner of faith, and some sort of sanctification for a time, that is, that they are compelled even by the empire of the Spirit of God, to confess and acknowledge that all things spoken in gods scriptures, are true. And that therefore their conscience in afeare, and terror do seek some means to please God for the avoiding of his vengeance. For as this is neither the true faith justifying neither yet the perfect sanctification of the Spirit of God which reneweth the elect, in the inward man: so doth nether of both long continue, for they returning to their natural profanation and darkness, do leave the way of light and life and draw themselves to death and damnation. But hereof without the contumely of the Son of God and without abnegation of his plain verity, ye can not conclude that the elect membres of his body, It is impossible that christ should lose any of the membral of his body. can be rest out of his hands, that those for whom solemnly he hath prayed, that they should be sanctified in the verity, and that they should be one with him, as he is one with his father, may come to final profanation, and so to perdition. we fear not to affirm that to be a thing no les impossible, then that it is, that Christ jesus shall cease to be head of his Church, and the saviour of his body. In the words of the Apostle written in the second chapter to the Ephesians, To the 4 5 & 6 ye seem not to understand his meaning, where he saith: ye were sometimes without Christ, afore say you) we are sure, that without Christ there is no election. In which words, thou that writest, playest with the simple ignorant reader, The adversary playeth the fol●sh sophister. the vile sophister, confounding by the inglishe word, without, that which in latin is moste evidently distincted. Doth Paul say? Eratis aliquando extra Christum? or saith he not? Eratis sine Christo? To make the matter sensible to you (my dear brethren) be you never so simple, where he saith without Christ, there is no election, that proposition is ●rue, if it be understand, that man was never elected to lief everlasting, but in Christ jesus only. But if he will affirm that none are elected in Christ jesus, without Christ, that is to say, before that they come to the true, and perfect knowledge of gods mercies in Christ, that proposition is most false and doth repugn (as plainly ye may see) to the mind and words of the Apostle. for he affirmeth, that we were elected in Christ jesus, before the foundation of the world was laid, yea when we were dead by sin, ignorant of him, strangers from the testament of his promise which S. Paul calleth to be without Christ, without God in this world, & without the league of the testament. And by these words doth the Apostle magnify the superabundant mercies of God showed to the world in Christ jesus. By the which he received not only the jews who long had continued in league with God, but also the Gentiles to the participation of his glory: albeit that from the days of Abraham, they had lived as despised & rejected of God. Let the reader now judge how strongly ye conclude. To the place of the Apostle, touching the illumination of such, as after utterly fall back, I have before answered, ye unjustly accuse us, that we seek shifts and narrow bores, to the end that we shall not be subject to the truth. For this is our plain confession, which we simply and boldly do affirm, that this is a stable and immutable foundation: the Lord knoweth his own, that no creature is able to separate his elect from his love, Rom. ●. which in Christ jesus, he beareth to them. Where boldly ye affirm us to be of a perverse and reprobat mind, To the 7 8. 9 & 10. if we deny them to be elect, who have received from God such graces, as man in this life can receive no greater. It may seem that because ye delight to speak what ye please, ye take liberty to lay to our charge what soever seemeth good to you. I trust ye be never able to prove that any of us, hath affirmed that he who had received of the free gift of God a true unfeigned and lively faith, is not the elect of God, and that faith we know do gods children, which come to age and discretion receive in this life, as Peter did: against the which, did Christ pronounce, that the gates and ports of hell should not prevail. But it appeareth to me that your doubt, is either to wit, whether God bestoweth his great and rich talents upon the reprobate. for if so he should do, ye asffirme that he bestoweth them in vain, meaning, to receive no fruit of them. That God bestoweth great talents upon the very reprobate, the scriptures manifestly do witness, to speak nothing of lief, reason, corporal health, richesse, and honours, which the reprobate in greatest abundance do possess, doth not Christ witness; that many shall cry, Lord in thy name we have prophesied, we have cast out devils, and in thy name have we done many wondrous works? And yet shall Christ answer I never knew you. Doth not Paul affirm that albeit he knew all mysteries, had all prophecy, and knowledge, and all faith (such he meaneth, as by the which miracles are wrought) yet without he had charity he were nothing? But yet I pray you, do prophecy, knowledge, the gift of tongues and of miracles cease to be the good and rich talents of God? ye cry yet are they bestowed without hope of fruit to be received, & in vain, if they be bestowed upon the reprobate. That of you is boldly and most blasphemously affirmed. for God knoweth the fruit which his Church shall receive, not only of those spiritual talentes how wicked that ever they be (to whose dispensation, they are committed) but also of the corporal and temporal benefit, yea of very tyranny, doth his wisdom and goodness cause a fruit and commodity come, and spring out to his Church. By the tyranny of Nabuchadnezer, he punished the proud contemners, and tried, and partly purged his children, who before were slothful, and negligent. by that great conquest and victory, which he gave to Cyrus, he procured the dedeliverance of his people from bondage. By the great abundance of victuales, given in the days of Pharaoh, were jacob and his children sustained. And think you that with out fruit and all together in vain, were these and the like benefits bestowed? although that the most part of these were idolaters, cruel murderers, and reprobate, to whose custody, these talents were committed. ye are to bold thus to control God. for his wisdom will not in all things be subject to your foolishness. The diversity of creatures here beneath in earth, may teach you more sobriety. How many cratures I pray you appear to our judgement to be supernuouse and vainly created, not only because they profit not man, but because they are unprofitable to themselves? but shall we therefore accuse gods wisdom, by whom they are cre●ted? God forbid. for besides the omnipotency of his power, and wisdom manifested in their creation, he alone knoweth their use, profit and commodity, which every creature receive of an other, how dull so ever our senses be. And the same ought you to consider, in all talentes, and gifts committed to m●̄, how wicked so ever they be, to whom they are committed. for not only therein is god's goodness to be praised which extendeth the self, in some cases even to his enemies, but also some profit doth ever arise to his Church, by his graces, how so ever they be abused, by the reprobat. God's t●lentes in the very reprobate do profit g●●s Church. The pregnant wit and subtle engine of julian the apostatate, served the Church, in stead of aspurre in his time, and caused the godly learned more diligently to search the scriptures of God, then before they had done. And the same doth your perverse iniquity this day toward us: Where ye say, that it is false, th●● God did intend to bestow his talē●es in urine▪ for asmuch as the holy G●st willeth and exhort●th us not t● receive the grace of God in vain, yet not withstanding God willeth not us to receive his grace in vain, we may abusing his grace▪ receive it in vain otherwise in vain did Paul exhort us, n●t t● receive his graece in vain. These be your words & this is your reason which I leave to be judged upon, by the godly reader for we do not say that God bestoweh his gifts in vain (albeit the reprobate be participant thereof) but it is you that affirm that in vain and without fruit they are bestowed, except that all be elect to life everlasting that receive them▪ which doctrine is so strange to us, that we doubt not to affirm, with the hazard of our lives, that by gods scriptures, 2. Cor. 6 it can not be maintained. The words of the Apostle in the place by you alleged, nether affirmeth what man may do, nether yet what he may not do: but he declareth how diligently & carefully not only by preaching, but also by exhortation and prayer he travailed, that his labours might be fruitful amongst them, and so that they should not receive the grace of God in vain. But admitting that he had said, I command you not to receive the grace of God in vain, could ye thereof conclude any more than ye may do of these words, be you holy, for I am holy, saith the lord? There is a precept given, but in whom standeth power to perform the same? If it stand not in man, say you, in vain is the precept given. how you be able to prove that, I remit to your better advisement. To me is nothing vain that God speaketh or commandeth. for I am assured that either by gods will revealed are the elect instructed, how they ought to walk, or else are the reprobate in their consciences convict, The pla●● of the 2. chap. of Peter ● that knowing gods holy will, obstinately they rebel against the same: and so are they witnesses to their own just damnation. The place of Peter doth manifestly fight against you: for how soever the dog hath vomited the corruption of his stinking stomocke: and how so ever the sow hath appeared to have been cleansed: yet nether of both change their own nature. But the dog remaineth the dog, and therefore can do none other thing, but to return to his vomit, and the sow remaining the sow, must needs return to wallow in the mire. But (say you) Peter affirmeth, that they were verily escaped. I answer, as touching the truth and nature of the doctrine which they professed, so they were▪ for it was the very true knowledge of God, which was offered unto them, and which apperantly they had received. In which if they had continued, they should verily have been free from all bondage, according to Christ's promise. But because they were none of his chosen sheep, nor peculiar flock, they did decline from the holy commandment, and so were their last worse than their first. because that the servant knowing the will of the master and not doing the same is worthy many stripes. All this I know doth please you, except, that I affirm that they were never of Christ's chosen number, no not even when they professed most boldly, when they lived most straightly, and when most they appeared to have been purged. I will not bind you to believe mine affirmation, except that I bring the witnessing of the holy Ghost, 1. I●●n 2. S. john saith, they have passed out from us (he speaketh of antichrists) but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, of a truth they should have remained with us etc. These words need no commentary: for saith he, they have passed out from us. And why? because they were not of us, no not even when they professed most earnestly etc.: Shut up your own eyes as ye li●t, this light shall ye never be able to obscure, much less to extinguish. To the 11. 12. & 13 The place of S. james, and of the Apostle Paul to Timothe. 2. Timoth. 2. do teach not only the ministers of the word, but also every faithful man, how carefully one should procure the salvation of an other. And to make all men more diligent, in doing their duty, he declareth in what extreme danger stand such, as do err from the truth, or that remain in bondage of Satan, as also, what acceptable service unto God, do such, as by whom God calleth others from the way of damnation. That this is the simple meaning of both the Apostles, I trust every godly man, that diligently will read the text, shall confess with me. your foolish questions demanding, whether they were elect or reprobate, ofwhom the Apostle speaketh, and your academical reasons grounded upon your own fantasies, I omit as unworthy to be answered: for the Apostle speaketh to no one particular sort, but proposeth a common and general doctrine, for the ends which I have rehearsed before. And albeit ye fear not now to affirm, that the preaching of repentance is in vain, if our opinion be true, the day shall come, when ye shall know, that nether was the sharp preaching of john, nether yet the glad tidings and amiable voice of Christ jesus, blown to the world in vain, albeit that the Scribes and Pharisees remained still the generation of vipers, and that they could neither fear nor believe the promise of salvation, because they were not of God, but of the devil, whose children they were. The places of Isaiah and jeremy, Isaiah 5 I have before declared, & therefore in few words I will touch the purpose of the holy Ghost, which was not to instruct that people whom, when, or how many God had elected to lief everlasting in Christ jesus his Son, or whom for just causes, he had reprobated, but to convict them of their manifest, and most unthankful defection, and to take from them, all excuses, both the prophets do declare, how gently God had entreated them, yea how beneficial he had been to their fathers, whom he called from ignorance, whom he nourished in ●is own knowledge, and at length planted, and hedged them about with all munition and necessary defence. So that now the children declining to Idolatry could have no excuse. for their father's Abraham, Isaak, jacob, and David, whom he calleth the faithful seed, gave unto them no such example. jerem. 2 But how saith he, art thou now changed, to be unto me a degenerate vineyard? what maketh this, I pray you, for your purpose, or for to prove, that these, that be elected in Christ jesus, to lief everlasting, may become reprobates? If I should answer, that the stock which was planted faithful, remained faithful, but that it produced many rotten, and unfruitful branches, which therefore, must needs be cut of, none of your sect were able to confute me. for I should have the Apostle for my warrant. But I delight in nothing so much, as in the simple and native meaning of the scriptures, as they be alleged in their own places by the holy Gost. To the 14 The places of the prophets Isaiah, and Hoseas, have not both one end. for Isaiah in the 14 chapter doth promise in the person of God, that he would show mercy to jacob, and that he would choose Israel again: yea that he would destroy Babylon, for their saik, and so would choose his people to himself again, whom for a time, he appeared to have rejected, so that other lords than he, did bear rule over them. Hoseas 11 But Hoseas in the contrary sense affirmeth, that because they had abused the long patience of God, and had not righteously considered, howtenderly he had entreated them, that therefore should the sword r●sh● in into the city, that it should destroy, and devour, so that none should be found to relieve them. This I doubt not, is the meaning of both the prophets. O but you cry, here is mention made, that God will choose his people again therefore he had once rejected, whom before he had chosen. I trust ye ●●ll not, that gods Majesty shallbe subject to perjury, for the establishment of your error. he had before solemnly sworn not only to Abraham but also to David, that he would for ever, be the God of that people, and that of the fruit of his loins should one fit upon his seat, and that for ever▪ If he had so rejected his people, that no election had remained, nether yet that he had made any difference betwixt them, and the profane nations, before the coming of Christ jesus, where was the stability of this former promise? we know, that the gifts, and vocation of God, are without repentance in himself, that he casteth not away such, as he be foreknew to be his own, but that in the greatest extremity, his promise abideth stable, as in this people he most evidently declared. for he did not so disperse them, so reject them, and as it were in his anger cast them of, and give them over to the appetites of their enemies, but that still he did know, and avow them to be his people, yea even in their greatest calamity. As in these words he doth witness, saying, when they shallbe in the land of their enemies I will not refuse them, nether yet will I despise them, so that I will utterly destroy them, or make my covenant with them, to be of none effect, for I am the lord their God. for then I shall remember mine old covenant, which I made with them when I led them forth of the land of Egypt, in the presence of the Gentiles, that I might be their God, I the eternal. And in the same prophet, in many places more, the same is most evident. for thus he writeth foreseeing their captivity: Isai. 44 Yet now hear o jacob my servant and Israel, whom I have chosen, thus saith the Lord that made thee, and formed thee, from the womb: he will help thee, fear not o jacob my servant (advert that yet he doth acknowledge jacob to be his servant, even in his greatest misery) and thou righteous whom I have chosen, for I shall power out waters upon the thirsty, & floods upon the dry ground: I shall power forth my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thy buds. And in the same Chapter, after that he hath reproved the vanity of idolaters, he saith: Remember these (o jacob and Israel) for thou art my servant, I have form thee to this purpose, that thou shouldest be my servant: Isaiab 48. o Israel forget me not etc. For my names saike will I differ my wrath, and for my praise will I refrein it from thee, that I cut the not of etc. Lift up your eyes to the heavens, Isaiab 51. and behold the earth beneath, for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall perish in like manner, but my salvation shallbe for ever (he meaneth the deliverance, which he had promised to that people) and my righteousness shall not be abolished etc. Isai. 54. For a little while have I forsaken thee, but with great compassion shall I gather thee etc. And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, Isaia. 60 and their kings shall serve thee. for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my mercy I had compassion on thee etc. For Zions' sake I will not hold my tongue, Isa. 62 and for jerusalems' sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof break forth, as the light, Isaia. 61 and the salvation thereof, as a burning lamp etc. And their seed shallbe known amongst the Gentiles, and their buds among the people: All that see them shall know them, that they are the seed, which the Lord hath blessed. These and many places more, do manifestly witness, that God did never before the coming of Christ jesus in the flesh utterly reject and refuse that people (as that they did not appertain unto him) but that he did avow them to be his chosen, his peculiar people and his inheritance, even when they were in greatest misery. Yea further God had continually of the seed of Abraham, during the time of the Law, and the prophets, some number openly to glorify his name in the eyes of the world. And therefore consider with yourself, how justly ye gather upon these words of the prophet, God shall yet again choose Israel, that therefore God had utterly rejected all Israel, yea even from the life everlasting. for except that so ye conclude, ye have proved nothing of your purpose, for the controversy standeth not betwixt us and you, whether that God doth sometimes choose, and promote a man, or a people to honour and dignity in this life, & thereafter justly deprive him or them from the same. for this did we never deny. But the hole controversy consisteth in this point, whether that such as God in his eternal counsel, hath elected in Christ jesus to life everlasting, can after be reprobated, and so finally perish and that shall ye never be able to prove. That the simple reader may the better understand the meaning of the prophet, this I add The people in the captivity of Babylon were so oppressed, and so destitute of all hope ever to be restored to any dignity or liberty again. That to them it appeared a like possible to raise the dead carcases of such, as were buried in their graves, as to deliver them, from the hands of the proud, and pulsant Babylonians. And therefore doth not only Isaiah, who long afore saw their bondage, & the redemption from the same, but also jeremiah & Ezechiel, who did see it with their eyes, with great boldness & constancy affirm, that they should be delivered from that bondage, that they should be married with God & so should be chosen again, as our Prophet here speaketh, which is not to be referred to the part of God, How God did choose Israel again. but to the apprehension of the people who thought themselves utterly forsaken and rejected of God. Against this temptation, the prophet saith: God shall choose Israel again, that is shall restore them to the former dignity, yea to a greater. And that should he do in such sort, that they should know that he was God merciful constant, and immutable of his promise. And so the renovation of the league in such sort, that the world might see that God favoured Israel, is called the new election, & new marriage, not that God had ever in himself decreed and purposed, that the Messiah and blessed seed should descend of any other nation, but of the seed of Abraham and house of David, but that the people, in the time of their affliction, had received such a wound, by reason of their grievous plagues, and former offences that they thought that God had utterly rejected them, let the prophets be red with indifferent judgement. And this I doubt not shall appear most true. Now to the rest of your scriptures. ADVERSARY. Christ commandeth john to preach vn●o the seven Congregations Among whom were both elect & reprobate to whom he useth no such manner of doctrine, The 31 secti●. as ye teach. ●ha● the elect could not fall from their election but warneth them to take heed that they lose n●t that which they had gotten but labour to increase threatening them with destruction if ●hey forsake ●he grace, whereof they were made partakers nether discouraged be the most wicked of them, as ye do, saying, that by the preordinance of God, they of necessity must perish, but willeth them to repent and amend, and they should live yes knew he both who were elect and who were reprobate▪ To the congregation of Ephesus, he saith that she was fallen from her first love, Apocal. 2 and without she remembered from● whence she was fallen, repent, and did her first works, the Lord would shortly come and remove her candilstick out of her place. The congregation of Smirna he commandeth so be faithful unto the death and so should she receive the crown of life. If Christ had been of your opinion, he had not used such manner of doctrine. In vain should he exhort the reprobate to be faithful, whom he had cast away. and superfluous were it, to exhort the elect, whom he knew, to be predestinate so that they could not fall. In the congregation of Pergamus were two most detestable sects, that is Balaamites, and Nicholattains. whom the Lord did hate, than were they not beloved, and so consequently were they not elect after your opinion yet willeth he them to be converted, and to receive a new name written in whi●e stone. In the congregation of Thiatyra was the false prophetess jesabel to whom he gave space to repent▪ and (as Peter saith), 2. Pet. 3. the long suffering of the Lord is salvation, then might she have repent not withstanding she did not repent, than was she reprobate, likewise unto them which committed fornication with her, that is idolatry is repentance granted. The congregation of Sardis though in name she did live, Apo. 3 yet in deed she was dead. And that of her which was yet a live was in danger of death. wherefore he willeth her to call to remembrance, Apoc. 7 what she had heard and what grace she had received and to repent her of her imperfect works, and watch, lest the Lord should like a thief come upon her Unwares. If the congregation of Sardis was elect, then in vain doth the Lord threaten her after your opinion, and if she was reprobate, what availeth it to watch and repent. The congregation of Philadelphia, he commandeth to hold fast that which she hath that no man take away her crown (as Peter saith Beware lest ye with▪ 2. Pet. 3 other men be also plucked away through the error of the wicked, & fall from your own 〈◊〉 what should they fear the loss of that which (as you say) they can not lose. The congregation of Laodicia which was n●●her hot nor cold, but wretched miserable, and poor and blind and naked, if ye say it was elect yet the Lord threatened it that he would spew it out of his mouth. if you say that they were reprobate, yet might, they been saved, gr●we fervent and repent. And where they were poor they might have bought of Christ tried gold in the fire to make them rich and where they were naked they might be clothed with white raiment ●f right●●●snes to cover their filthy nakedness Moreover they might have gotten the salve of true knowledge, by the spirit of God to an●●t their blind eyes, b●re we se, how that there is none of these congregations so elect, but they might fall, & therefore have need of exhortations to be consiant unto the 〈◊〉. Le●t perchance as Paul the elect vessel of God, feareth himself they should become cast aways & reprobates, & again there be none so reprobate, but they be here comforted, space of repentance granted them to turn from their wickedness, & live. So would I exhort you to repent, and turn from your errors, and to seek for this salve of true knowledge to anoint your blind ignorant eyes▪ that ye might porc●●ue, how ye be partakers of all the feltes which were found among the seven congregations, by that ye are infected with this poisoned error of mere necessi●●e, and stoical destiny, more than they. God grant that ye may be also partakers of the mercy and grace offered to the said congregations: first ye participate with the congregation of Ephesus in that there is of you which call themselves Apostles, & are liars. with the congregation of Smirna in that there be among you which call themselves Jews. that is spiritual Israelites, and are of the congregation of Satan. with the congregation of Pergamus in that Satan dwelleth among you. and ye are become persecutors of Antipas, that is of the faithful: and in that ye maintain the doctrine of Balaam giving the people occasion of sin, with the congregation of Thiatira in that ye have the spirit of the prophetess jesabel, teaching a careless, and liberty life: with the congregation of Sardis, in that ye have a name that ye live, and yet are dead, and in that your works are not perfect: for ye teach that by no means can they be perfect in this world●. with the congregation of Philadelphia in that as is afore said, ye are become the congregation of sathan, where as ye would be esteemed faithful jews of Christ's congregation with the congregation of Laodici●, in that ye are wretched, miserable, blind, naked, and nether hot nor cold: for ye though ye exhort your disciples to do well, yet to pull all earnest ferventness from them, ye say they can never attain to any perfection during this world. Take heed therefore that Christ spew you not out of his mouth. Behold I stand, saith the Lord, at the door & knock: if any man hear my voice & open the door I will come in to him & will sup with him & he with me. Open the door in time: refuse him not which calieth by his voice. And so you shallbe certain of your election: but if you shut your door and refuse him which calleth, and if you do not obey his voice then are ye cast aways without ye repent in time. Thus it becometh us all to talk reueren●●y of god's election so far only as we feel by experience the spirit of God work in us: So that when we feel the spirit of God increase in us. we may be assured that we are in his favour, but when we be led away from one vice to an other as David was in abusing Bear seba & killing Urias, letus not presume then to be beloved of him which hated all works of iniquity. ANSWER. When I did first read this your blasphemous railing, I did wonder to what purpose, ye would rehearse the advertisements, admonitions, and exhortations given to the seven Churches in Asia, & unto all other churches in their names and conditions, seeing that nothing in the same can serve your purpose, yea altogether the holy Ghost through that hole work, doth manifestly fight against your pestilent errors. and therefore I say at the first sight, I did wonder, to what purpose ye would travail, where ye were assured tolose your labour. But when I came to your conclusion, which ye make in manner of exhortation to us, I did perceive, that easy it is to find a staff (as the proverb saith) to beat the dog, which man would have killed. To the 1. But to the matter. Ye boldly affirm (how so ever ye be able to prove) that the Apostle useth no such manner of doctrine, as we teach, etc. If ye understand, that because he teacheth not in those seven epistles, or letters, in express and plain words, that from the beginning some be elected to life everlasting, & others be reprobate, that therefore he teacheth it in no place, quid va let locus ex part negans. ye are not ignorant of the answer, and therefore I omit it. But I ask, if you do not think that the Apostle doth dedicat this his hole work to those seven congregations, so doth himself witness (as in the first chapter is evident) than what so ever is contained in this hole vision, appertaineth to the instruction, exhortation, admonition, comfort, and before advertisement of those congregations, no less than that, which is contained in these words by you rehearsed. Apoc. 7. Then let us hear what is written and spoken by him in this matter, I saw (saith he) four Angels standing upon the four corners of the earth holding the four winds of the earth that the winds should not blow upon the earth etc. And I saw an other angel ascending from the uprising of the son. etc. And he cried with a loud voice to the four Angels, to whom power was given to hurt the earth & the sea (saying), hurt not the earth nether the sea, nether yet the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. I pray you, why were these, who were to be marked in the foreheads, more called the servants of God, by the voice of the Angel. than others? I know you will answer, because of their good works, and godly intentions. But from whence I pray you did it proceed, that the works, and intention of the one sort were good, and of the other wicked? If you say, from their own free will, and power. the holy Ghost doth prove you liars, as before I have declared, and our Apostle assigneth also an other cause, Apocal. 13 saying, And power was given to the beast upon all tribes, tongues and nations, and all those that dwelled upon the earth, did worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life, of the lamb, who was killed from the beginning of the world. Here it is plain that our Apostle against your affirmation, teacheth that some do worship the beast and so do finally perish: and other do not worship him, and attain to life▪ & that because the names of the one are written in the book of life, and the names of the others are not written, and that more plainly he speaketh in these words: Apocal. 14 Then I looked, and lo a lamb standing on the mount Zion, & which him a hundredth, forty & four thousand having his father's name written in their foreheads etc. and they sang as it were a new song, before the throne, and before the four beasts & the elders, & none could learn the song except those hundredth forty and four thousand, which were bought from the earth etc. and after in the 17 chapped. Apocal. 17 is mentioned of these inhabitants of the earth, who shall wonder upon the beastwhose names are not written in the book of life, from the creation of the world. if in these places I say the Apostle maketh no difference betwixt one sort of men & an other, let the reader judge. if there be difference betwixt bought & not bought, written in the book of life, & not written, to learn the new fog & not to learn the same, them no doubt our Apostle putteth as plain a difference, as we do, yea the hole scope of his revelation is to declare, that there is a number of the elect called the spouse of the lamb, whom it behoveth to be complete before the consummation of all things come, & before that the innocent blood that hath been shed, be revenged upon those that dwell upon the earth. and therefore advise with yourselves how ye be able to prove, that S. john taught no such doctrine as we teach. But admitting that he had never spoken, nether yet of any number chosen, that can not fall utterly from their election, nether yet of any number reprobate, who must needs be apprehended with the beast, and with him be cast into the lake of fire. Is it therefore a good argument, that all those that teach such manner of doctrine be false teachers? or that no such doctrine is contained in the holy Scriptures? I will make the like reason: Nether Moses, nether john the Baptist in any expressed words, have left to us written▪ that Christ jesus should be born of a virgin, that he should suffer in jerusalem▪ that his disciples should all be sclandered, and flee from him, that he should rise again, and ascending into the heaven, should send the holy Ghost visibly upon his Apostles. nether Moses I say nether yet john, who were excellent teachers, have taught in expressed words any such doctrine, Ergo the teachers of it be false teachers, & it is not written in gods scriptures. your argument is no better, admitting that the Apostle had never made mention of any sort elected. But now shortly to answer to all which without purpose ye heap together in this place, To the 2. 3. 4. 5 6. 7. 8. 9 10. I say first, ye ought to have made a difference betwixt those seven congregations where Christ jesus had been preached, and received. and the rest of the world which then remained, or after was to remain in blindness, how exhortation threatenings consolations and the doctrine of repentance ought to be used. & error. for to those that have by public profession received Christ jesus, be they elect, or be they reprobate do appertain exhortations threatening, the doctrine of repentance, consolation propheciing. & revelation of things to come, but to those that yet remain manifest enemies of the truth, appertain only the common calling to embrace the truth, with the threatening of destruction, if they contiune unfaithful. And therefore because these former congregations (as said is) had professed themselves to be of god's household they were entreated as his domestical servants. If any ask the cause why are some so amiably, and others so strangely entreated, I answer, no other cause can be assigned, but that it pleased gods infinite wisdom and goodness to make that plain, and evident difference, betwixt those that once be received in his household (be it by external profession only) and those that remain in blindness, that the one he commonly doth visit, but the other he doth as it were neglect, and destroy. for what other cause can we assign, that God so lovingly did often call to repentance the people of Israel so often offending from the days of Moses unto the coming of Christ jesus, that he sent unto them Prophets to exhort, to rebuke, and to declare the estate of things to come: and in this mean season, the space of two thousand years, permitted the Gentiles to walk in their own ways? And now after the rejection of the jews, what cause can we assign, that among us Gentiles, God useth to stir up, now one country, now an other to receive the truth, to detest and abhor our former superstition, Idolatry, and wickedness, and of so long continuance, hath left both the Jews, & turks drowned still in their blindness, & damnable errors? we shall find none other cause, I suppose, than did the Apostle see when that he said, Act. 15 to God are known all his works, even from the beginning, and that he will reveal his secrets to such as please him. ye do not hear in all this revelation of john, that Babylon is exhorted to repentance that the blasphemous beast is rebuked, either of his tyranny, either of his blasphemy, with any promise made to him, that if he will convert, he shall be received to mercy and favour. No the sentence irrevocable is pronounced by the Angel, that he shall come to destruction. But Ephesus, Smyrna, Theatira, and the rest of the congregations, which before had professed Christ jesus▪ and yet were become not manifest enemies, but were fallen some in decay of life, some in corruption of manners, and some in heresies, were exhorted to return to repent, and to be fervent, to continue, with sharp threatening, if they did the contrary. And why this? because that God before had planted among them his truth, which yet utterly they had not refused, and therefore doth he honour them as his domestical servants, but in vain (say you) for if they be of the elect, An objection of the Anabaptiste they cannot perish: if they be of the reprobate sort, they can not be saved. This is of you unreverently reasoned, will ye not suffer God to order his household, as best pleaseth his wisdom? This order hath he appointed that the trumpet of his word to exhort, to rebuke, to encourage, to offer mercy to the penitent, and to threaten death, to such as do decline, shall clearly sound in his Church, so long as he doth acknowledge it to be his. Not that by the word preached, he that was reprobate in gods eternal counsel, may be the elect, and so changed: but that the word preached, and often repeated, maketh a difference betwixt the elect, and the reprobate, even before man. Albeit to you it appear superfluous, that God shall feed his children by his own word, which because the reprobate do refuse, therefore do they bear a testimony of their own just condemnation in their own conscience. Albeit I say, this appear superfluous, yet God hath commanded and established the same, as a thing most necessary and expedient, for the establishing of his children, and for the manifestation of his own glory. I wonder that ye will not affirm that superfluous it is for a man to till and manure the ground, A●bread is necessary to the body, so is god's word to the soul. to prepare for victuales, to eat and drink, & to do such other things as be necessary for the conservation of the life corporal, seeing that God hath appointed the days of man which he cannot exceed, and also that our heavenly father will provide for his children, seeing he provideth far the birds of the air. Assuredly the one ye may conclude aswell as the other. But herein, I say, appeareth your foolish blindness. first that ye make no difference betwixt the household servants, & those that be without. and secondarily, that ye understand not the use, the profit, and the effect of god's word preached. Is not the kingdom of heaven compared to a net casten into the sea gathering together all sorts of fishes? whereof albeit that the separation can not perfectly be made, till the net be drawn to the dry land upon the last day: yet daily by the word by exhortation, by rebuking & threatening, do many things come to light, which before lay hid. how many do follow Christ, for a time, and fall back from him, albeit, that to the end he crieth, that they should continue. S. Paul affirmeth that he did write his sharp epistle to the Corinthians for a trial of them, 1 Cor. 2. if they would in all things be obedient. if they as true sheep would hear the voice of their true pastor, acknowledge, & follow it, which he witnesseth that they did. 2 Cor. 7. And there for he saith, now do I rejoice, not that ye did sorrow, but that ye did sorrow to repentance. By the which was not only the Apostle comforted as he himself doth confess, but also were they newly confirmed, that the Spirit of God, was not utterly extinguished before. The elect have great profit by the preaching of gods word. How the adversaries abuse God's word in making false conclusions upon many places thereof And so albeit, ye can see no fruit nor necessity of god's word preached, except that the nature of the reprobate be changed, yet do gods children feel in experience, how comfortable it is to have their dull spirits stirred up by frequent exhortations: yea how necessary it is, that their dullness and unthankfulness be sharply rebuked. The third thing, in which I perceive you horribly to err in all this your long discourse of the seven Churches, is that where so ever there is precept or commandment given to repent, and to continue in faith, or to live a godly life, or where so ever mention is made, that space and time is granted to repent, there straight ways ye conclude, then may men keep the commandements: then may they repent, and so be saved, although before they were reprobate. For this ye affirm of jesabel, she might (say you) have repent, and have been saved, and likewise unto them that committed fornication with her, is repentance granted. But how vain is this conclusion, God commandeth that which is righteous, Ergo man may do all that is commanded. God giveth place of repentance to all men, Ergo all men do, or may repent. How vain I say be these conclusions, such as be not infected with the pestilent opinion of their own power, free will, and justice, may easily espy. when ye have proved that God commandeth nothing, which man may not do by his own power fire, will, and strength, and that repentance so proceedeth from, man that in himself, it lieth either to repent, or not to repent, then may ye sing this song, which so o●t ye repeat: God commandeth, God giveth space of repentance, God offereth mercy to all, Ergo of their own power, they may repent. But and if we be not sufficient of our own selves to think one good thought, if repentance be the free gift of God, and if to receive mercy proceedeth of his own free gift also, then harp so long as ye list upon that one string, I will answer that except ye make it better agree with gods scriptures, I must needs say, that he is worthy to be mocked that continually harpeth upon a discording string. To the 11. 12. 13 14. & 15. As we do not contemn your exhortation, if we could be persuaded, that it did proceed from the spirit of lenity, so can we not acknowledge our selves to be infected with the poisoned error of mere necessity, and Stoical destiny, nether yet that we teach a careless, and libertine life, nether that we give occasion of sin to the people. finally that we can not confess that we teach, and maintain idolatry (as most unjustly ye accuse us) without any further probation. for that any such crimes reign and are permitted amongst us without punishment, ye be never able to prove. We do not deny, but that among us have been men infected with all crimes, which ye lay to our charge. for some of you were once of our number, so far as man could judge: but as you have made your selves manifest, so have others also. But yet it seemeth far repugnant to equity and charity, that the treason of judas should be laid to the charge of the faithful Apostles. If I list to take my pleasure in examining your lives, and applying the offences of those churches to your faction, I doubt not to bring better testimony for my affirmations then ye have brought against us. But that I omit to better opportunity, willing you in the mean season to remember that he which speaketh alway what he listeth, is compelled some times to hear that which he would not. At one word to answer to your sclanderours, and malicious accusations, we appeal from your sentence unto him, whose truth we maintain, not that we fear, but that with your confusion we could reject your vennom, in your own stomockes again, but that we are determined not to contend with you in dispitesull railing, and unjust accusations, which is your purpose in this hole book in which ye thus proceed. THE ADVERSARY. Often times ye use this saying, The 32 section. God's election was afore the fundantion of the world without any condition: wherefore they which are elect, they be elect without any condition by the immutable decree of God's goodness, so that they can never fall out of the said election: other wise gods election were not certain: to the which I answer that Gods h●lie election is without any condition, sure and certain in Christ jesus, without whom there is neither election nor salvation. further man is made sure in the election by the promise of God in Christ jesus, of which promise, when he is made partaker, he entereth in covenant with God, but when he breaketh the covenant, he for sake●h ●he promise, & when he forsakes the promise, he refuseth Christ, in refusing Christ, he falls out of the election: not withstanding the election abideth sure in Christ: election ha●h no promise without faith, true faith is gods work by his grace, and is also partly man's work, by consenting thereto. wherefore Paul calleth the righteous joint workers with God, because they work together with him: now if man for his part according to his nature be inconstant in his saith, then is he out of promise, whereby he was made sure of his election, yet gods election remaineth sure and stable in Christ jesus, Adam and all men in him before the transgression might fall from God by sin, not withstanding the election. why may not then the most righteous of us all fall now by sin from the election? is our election surer now after transgression, than it was afore transgression? The holy Ghost saith, yet Cain went away in his wrath from wisdom, but a man can not go away from that which he neither hath nor can have. further God gave him warning afore, which was sufficient, to withdraw him from his evil intention. To Cain said the Lord. why art thou wroth▪ & why is thy countenance abated? If thou do well, shall there not be a promotion? And if thou dost not well, lieth not thy sin in the doors? unto thee also pertaineth the lust thereof, and thou shalt have dominion over it. If Cain was a reprobate afore the foundation of the world, than had he no dominion over his lusts, to choose the good, & leave the bad, for than might he ha●e lived: yet God saith, Thou shalt have dominion over it. wherefore it is plain that Cain was no reprobate, when the lord spoke these words to him. further if god gave not Cain dominion and power to subdue his lust, who was then the author of his sin▪ whether is the sword which killethe, having no power over itself, more to be blamed, or he which hath it in his hand? if God gave not Cain power to overcome his lust, and grace whereby he might be saved, who is the cause of his damnation? God is faithful (saith Paul) which shall not suffer you to be tempted above your strength, but shall in the midst of temptation make away that ye may be able to bear. likwiese did God with Cain in his temptation warning that if he did well, he should be rewarded: if he did evil, he should be punished: for there ●ncoraging to do well, and that he should not saint, God showed him how he should have dominion over his lust to rule it. This notwithstanding he went away in wrath from wisdom and forseke the counsel of God which mercifully called him to li●f. After the stood, Ham was blessed of God as his father Noah and his brethren Sem and japhet, and with the same blessing where with they were blessed: yet fell he from righteousness, rejoicing in evil. And then ●o became he accursed and not afore: but all reprobates be under the wrath and curse of God. So Ham when he was blessed of God. he was not reprobate. for than should he have been both blessed and cursed▪ loved and hated all at once. The Israelites which were delivered from the oppression of the Egyptians, were chosen and called of God to go and possess● the land of Canaan Under the conduct of Mo●ses, yet nether Moses for his offence, nether any of them because of their inobedience obtained that whereunto they were ordained and chosen of God, except two persons josua and Caleb. moreover the same Israelites were in gods holy election and called of God from their sins, and chosen in Christ to lief and health as Paul witnesseth, 1, ●or. 10 saying, our fathers were all under the cloode and all passed through the sea, and were all baptized under Moses in the cloode, and in the sea, and did all eat of one spiritual meat and did all drink of one manner of spiritual drink, and they drank of that spiritual Rock that follwed them, which Rock was Christ, behold how Paul so often rehearsed this word, all, to declare their choosing and calling to be general, yet there after (saith he) in many of them had God no delight. for by sin they fell from Christ and out of their election and so perished. And there doth also Paul teach us how those things chanced them, for examples, to put us in remembrance that we do not likewise by sin fall from that whereunto we are chosen and called of God. Let him therefore which thinketh he standeth, take head lest he fall. But you say, that he which standeth may well stumble, but he can not fall, wherefore your doctrine being contrary to the saying of the holy Ghost must be false, as for them which ye say were reprobates before the world in Vain should they take heed of any fall seeing afore they were, they had so sore a fall that they could never rise again, and so deep a fall even to damnation that they can fall no further. Balaam was filled with the spirit of God, the spirit of trauth, the spirit of power and the spirit of grace so largely that whom so ever he blessed, he was blessed, and whom so ever he cursed he was cursed, but the blessing of the ungodly reprobate is very cursing, so that whom so ever they curse, God blesseth and who so ever they bless God curseth. wherefore Balaam during the time that he himself was so blessed of God, he was no reprobate, but the chosen, of God and might have continued in the grace and favour of God. And thereto was exhorted of God, saying, go not thou with them, nether curse the people, for they are blessed. where that it is to be noted t●at this people was blessed and not withstanding by idolatry and carnal lusts they fell from the favour of God. And in stead of blessing gods curse fell on them, as it appeareth in Numeri. Likewise Balaam through covetousness, loviug filthy reward and continuing in sin, he fell from righteousness and forsook the truth, and perished with the cursed ungodly. Saul and his house was elect and chosen of God to be king and rulers over Israel, and that for ever as Samuel witnesseth saying at this time would the lord have established thy kingdom upon Israel, but ●●ow thy kingdom shall not continue. Here you see how Saul the elect anointed of God doth fall from that whereunto God had chosen and ordained him. And thereafter in the fifetenth chapter, because thou hast cast away the word of the lord, therefore hath the lord cast away the also from being king, whereof we learn that Saule● fall was not by the fore ordinance of God, seeing he ordained the contrary, but through his inobedience to god's word, whereunto he might have obeyed if he would. Solomon received grace and wisdom of God above all other, which was a lively figure of Christ, of whom God saith so: Solomon I have chosen to be my son and I will be his father, I will establish his kingdom for ever, yet did he fall from this grace, and wrought wickedness in the sight of the Lord, lusting after strange flesh and committing idolatry, and where as God choose him to be his son, he turned his heart from God, and followed Ascaoth the god of the Sidons, and Melcom the abomination of the Amonites, he builded an high place for Chamos the abomination of Moab, and unto Moloch the abomination of the children of Ammon, and lykewies for all his ●owtlandish wives, which were a great number that brent ●ncense, and offered unto their gods, Here have we a notable example of Solomon the elect son of God, whose kingdom God had promised to establish for ever. Yet the became he child of the devil turning his heart from God, And giving himself over to the lusts of the flesh, and most vile abominable idolatry. jeroboam was chosen of God and anointed by the prophet Ahia, king over the 10 tribes of Israel, to whom God made a covenant that he would be with him, and build him a sure house that should continue even as he had promised afore to his servant David a man after gods own heart. Yet did jeroboam, not withstanding the election and fore ordinance of God fall from the favour of God, set up two golden calves, one in Bethel and the other in Dan, and made Israle sin against God to his own and their utter subversion. judas was elect of God to be the salt of the earth not unsavoury for that serveth for no thing but he became unsavoury salt through his own wickedness, Christ chose him to be the the light of the world, who should so shine before all men that they might glorify by him God the father, but he cause he loved darkness better than light his candelstik was removed and his light quenched. Christ chose him to be one of the twelve, which should sit on the twelve sextes judging the twelve tribes of Israel. but because he made not his election and calling sure by good works as Peter speaketh his name was wiped out of the book of lief. Christ loseth none of them whom the father gave him except judas, which by transgression (as Peter saith) did fall & was found unworthy of his election. Here might the terrible and grievous fall of joas with divers others be alleged, which for prolixity I pass over, All these above reheresed and many m●, received the grace of God in vain, And therefore did God cast them away whom afore he had chosen even as he did jerusalem, of whom it is so written, I will cast of this 〈◊〉 jerusalem which I have chosen, and the house, of which I said, my Name shall be there, for though God of has mere mercy hath chosen us in Christ jesus, to be heirs of eternal lief, yet if we refuse him, he will refuse us, & if we deny him, he will deny us And so as the Prophets saith, our own wickedness shall reproveus, 2. King. 23 and our turning away shall condemn us: and therefore saith the lord by his prophet Ezechiel, if the righteous turn away from his righteousness, and do iniquity, all the righteousness that he hath done: jerem. 2 Ezec. 18 shall not be thought upon, but in the fault that he hath offended withal, and in he sin that he hath done, he shall die. ANSWER. The same proposition which before I have proved most false and deceivable, To the 1 ye yet labour by multiplying of examples, nothing appertaining to that purpose, to defend and maintain. Your proposition is that albeit the election is sure and made without all condition in Christ jesus, yet is there none so elected in him to lief everlasting, but that he may fall to perdition, and become a reprobate. And for the probation hereof before ye enter to your exemples, yet use two reasons. The former, without Christ (say you) there is nether election, nor salvation: and this we confess and most steadfastly do believe, adding that election and salvation are so sure in him, that so many as be elected in him to lief everlasting, shall by grace attain to the same. Ye proceed in your raison, further man is made sure in the election by the promise of God in Christ jesus, of which promise when he is made partaker, he entereth in covenant with God▪ but when he breaketh the covenant, he forsaketh the promise, and when he forsaketh the promise, be refuseth Christ, in refusing Christ, he falleth out of the election, notwithstanding the Election abideth sure in Christ. This is your first reason. To the which I shortly & plainly answer, that because ye suppose an impossibility to be possible, therefore ye conclude a great absurdity. for ye suppose, that the membres of Christ's body elected in him to life everlasting, may so forsake the promise, so refuse Christ their head, and so break the covenant, that to the end of their lives they contemn and despise it, which is a thing impossible, as before I have proved, and therefore your conclusion availeth nothing. when ye shall prove that Christ's sheep, committed to his charge by his heavenly father, can become wolves or dogs to bark against their pastor, and that so they continue to the end, I will study to answer you other wise: but unto such time as you learn to prove your purpose more substantially, I must say that because there is no member of your reason which hath a sure ground, that therefore I will not greatly study to confute the same: for man is not made sure in the election by any promise of God, but the election which before was secret in gods eternal counsel, is by the promise and word of grace notified unto man, so that tolerably it may be spoken, man is assured of his election by the promise, which he willingly embraceth, but to be sure in the election by the promise, is not the phrase of the holy Ghost: further of this we shall examine in your second reason which is this, Election hath no promise without faith: true faith is gods work by his grace, To the 2 & 3. and is also man's work partly by consenting thereto: wherefore Paul calleth the righteous ●oynt workers with god because they work together with him. Now say you, if mā for his part, according to his nature, be inconstant in his faith, then is he out of the promise whereby he was made sure of his election, yet God's election remaineth sure and stable in Christ jesus. The first member of your reason is dark, and obscure, and the manner of speaking so strange, that in the scriptures I am assured it is never to be found. In one of two senses is election taken in the scriptures. Answer. The former: Election is in one of two sorts taken in the scriptures. for the elect themselves, as when Paul saith the election did obtain it, that is, the elect of God obtained mercy. And in the same sense is Paul called the vessel of election, that is, an elect vessel: and if in this sense ye affirm that election, that is to say the elect have no promise without faith, Rom. 9 albeit I will not greatly contend in that behalf, yet by manifest scriptures I may prove the contrary. for the posterity of Abraham by gods free election had this promise, that he should be their God. And saint Paul affirmeth that the children of the faithful were holy and yet all could not have faith when the promise was made, for than had Abraham no seed at all, but of this I say I will not contend. Otherwies' election is taken in the scriptures, for the eternal counsel of God, by the which he hath appointed life everlasting, to such as he hath given to his Son before all worlds, Rom. 9 & 11 as Paul saith: For yer the children were borne, when they had neither done good nether bad, that the purpose of God, which is by his election, that is not by works but by him that calleth might stand sure, it was said unto her the elder shall serve the younger, etc. And after, even so at this time is there a remnant left through the election of grace and so forth in divers other places. and in this sense, if ye understand that election hath no promise without faith I answer, that gods free election in Christ jesus needeth nether promise nor faith, as touching the part of God. for he in his election respecteth nether of both, but his own good pleasure in Christ his son, & so I would have wished greater plains in the first part of your reason then there is. but I perceive the ground of your error by that which followeth: True faith (say you) is gods work by grace, and it is also partly man's work by consenting thereto, faith is altogether ●he work of God and no part of man's work 1. Petr. 1. which second part of this second member is utterly falls. for faith is no part of man's work no more than the child begotten of the father and conceived of the mother is the work of the self. but faith is altogether the work of God. for as he begetteth us by the word of verity, and by the power of his holy spirit maketh our hearts to conceive and retain the seed of life: so by his power are we kept by faith to salvation, which is prepared to this end, that it shallbe manifested in the last time & therefore (saith the Apostle) through grace are ye saved by faith & that not of yourselves. ye must compel the holy Ghost to recant, which I think he will not do for your threatening, before ye be able to prove that faith is any part of man's work. The words of the Apostle, 1. cor. 3 you shame fully abuse: for in that place he entreateth only, how God useth the ministers of his word, and blessed Euangil to be helpers with God, in so far as they are the embassaders of reconciliation, as in an other place he calleth them, he meaneth nothing nether what man doth in the work of his own salvation by his own faith, or by his own works. And therefore although ye (as a blind man) go forward to your own perdition saying, now if man for his part according to his nature be inconstant in his faith, then is he out of the promise etc. yet must we pull you back and say that because faith is no part of man's work, therefore doth nether his faith nor his election depend upon the inconstancy of his own nature, Nether●● faith n●ther election grounded upon man nor upon his constancy but God of his sovereign bounty overcoming what imperfections soever be in his choose children hath grounded their election in himself & in Christ jesus his son. an other error I see in this your reason, which because I have sufficiently confuted, I will here touch it only. Ye make faith the embracing of the promise, & our obedience, to be causes of gods election, when in very deed they be but the effects of our election. for nether faith nor obedience make us to be gods elect, but because we were elected in Christ jesus, therefore are we called, made faith full, obedient and sanctified by his free grace. To admonish you yet of one thing & so to put end to your unreasonable reasons: Wonder it is that ye will attribute to election that which ye deny to the elect. you affirm that election is sure in Christ, but not the elect say you, be like ye imagine election to be a certain speculation or imaganation without any certain substance, to the which it must be referred. but S. Paul teacheth us the contrary saying, he hath cho senus in Christ, he saith not that election was in Christ, but we were elected in Christ jesus before that fundations of the world were laid. This gently I put you in mind to ground your reasons more substantially, if that by them ye intend to prove any thing. A short answer I might give you to all your examples, to wit that, we speak not of election to offices, or to possession temporal, but of election to life everlasting, from the which ye are never able to prove any to have been finally secluded, that in Christ jesus was thereto elected before the foundation of the world was laid. But yet to gratify you some what, I will pass through your examples, and communicate with you my judgement: God grant you hearts to understand. It is a thing most certain that albeit Adam and all men in him might and did fall from God by sin, To ●he 4 Christ's power is of greater virtue to save his elect then Adam's impotency was to bring damnation upon al●. yet can not the elect of God who be elected to life everlasting in Christ jesus, so fall from their election that finally they perish. the reason is, that as Christ jesus, the brightness of the glory of his father, & the expressed image of his substance, is greater than ever was Adam, so is his power of greater virtue to save the elect than Adam's impotency was to bring damnation upon all. Where ye ask if our election be surer now after the transgression then afore the transgression. I answer the assurance and firmity of our election was always, and at all times one. For when we stood in Adam (as ye allege) yet were we elected in Christ▪ and when we fell in Adam, then did our election burst for the and appear. Ye be never able to prove that Cain was elected to life everlasting in Christ jesus: To the 5. & 6 for God looked not to Cain, nor yet to his sacrifice, as that he did to Abel. And why? The adversary is convicted by his own reason's. because, as the Apostle affirmeth, the one offered in faith and the other without faith. Remember, I pray you, your former reason: there is none (say you) elected without faith, but Cain was without faith even before he did kill or hate his brother, therefore by your own reason, he was not in the election, no not even before he hated. I do not approve this argument: but yet your former reason standing true, it is invincible. Moses saith not that God promised dominion to Cain over his lusts, The place of Moses concerning but saith, unto thee shall his appetites or lusts be, & thou shall bear dominion over him: which is not spoken of sin, but of Abel, who as he was the younger, so was he appointed to be subject to Cain, Cain. and to serve him, and therefore most unjustly did he hate him. It is the same phrase that before was spoken of the woman concerning her subjection to man. Such as have but mean knowledge in the hebrew text, know well that both these articles be of the masculine gendre, & the substantive which signifieth sin in that place, is of the feminin gender & therefore will not that propriety of the tongue suffer, that dominion promised, be referred to sin. where blasphemously ye ask if god gave Cain no power to subdue his lust, who was then the author of his sin? I answer Cain himself: for he was not like to a dead and unsensible sword, as ye adduce the similitude, but he was a reasonable instrument infected by the venom of Satan, from the which he not being purged could do nothing but serve the devil and his own lusts, against gods expressed will and commandment. I have before, proved taht God is the cause of no man's damnation but sin in which they are fallen, is the very cause which all reprobates do find in themselves. Touching the fidelity of God who suffereth none of his to be tempted above their strength, To the 7 it is only true of Gods elect, 1. Cor. 10 to whom it is plain that Paul there speaketh. for albeit that amongs the Corinthians there were many reprobates, yet doth Paul address his style as it were to the elect Church of God, calling them his beloved, willing them to fly from idolatry, and speaking to them, as unto men endued with wisdom etc. And therefore must ye first prove, that Cain had as great testimony of God that he was his elect, as the Corinthians had of Paul that they were beloved and elected in Christ, before that ye can make this place to serve for him. for albeit he did advertise him what was his duty to do, yet doth it not thereof follow, that he gave him power to obey his will revealed, nether yet power to resist all tentation. To Pharaoh he did no les make manifest his will then that he did to Cain, and yet of him he did before pronounce that he should not hear nor obey the voice of Moses, I do not deny but that he stubbornly foresooke the counsel of God, which mercifully called him. But why did he, and do all reprobate forsaik it, we have oft before declared, to wit: because the seed of God abideth not in them. What was the benediction given after the flood unto Noah and to his sons, To the 8 Genese 9 the holy Ghost doth not conceal, to wit multiplication, preservation, and the restitution of all things, as touching the order of nature, like as they were before that vastation, (by reason of the waters which had so long continued). In that place is no mention made of election to life everlasting in Christ jesus, and therefore your connexion, that Ham was not reprobat, when he was blessed of God, is foolish. for albeit that none can be both blessed and cursed, loved and hated all at once, in that degree of love or of hatred which God freely beareth in Christ to his elect, and most justly hateth the reprobate, for the causes known to his visdom, yet in an other sort, it is no repugnancy to say that God both blesseth, and loveth in bestowing tempoall benedictions, upon such as in his eternal counsel he hath rejected, and therefore hateth. As it is no repugnancy to say that God both blesseth and loveth his elect children, even when most seruerely he doth chasten and punish them. To all that which ye adduce of the Israelites, To the 9 10 11. 12 & 13. my former answers may suffice, for you be never able to prove, that any of them, which was chosen to lief everlasting did fall into death eternal. It nothing hurt the salvation of Moses albeit his body fell in the wilderness. 1 Cor. 10 That place of Paul proveth not that all the Israelites, which was called from Egypt, were within gods holy election to lief everlasting in Christ jesus, but doth prove that they were all externally called and that they did all communicate with those external signs and sacrements, which did signify, & represent spiritual things, but he doth not affirm that all did receive the spiritual and inward graces of the holy Gost. The mind of the Apostle is plain enough in that place to such as willingly list not blind themselves. For he exhorteth the Corinthians not to think it sufficient that they did commuicat with the sacraments of Christ jesus, except that a godly lief & unfeigned obedience to gods will revealed should be joined with the same: for otherwise the same should happen unto them, that happened to the Israelites. And therefore he saith let him that standeth take heed, lest he fall, which is nothing contrary to our doctrine nether yet is our doctrine in any jot repugnant to the holy Gost. for we did never deny but that many who before men had a fair glister of holiness, yea which thought themselves sure in their own fantasy hath taken horrible falls, both of one sort & of the other. And unto all men we cry no less than you do, that they tempt themselves, & that they take heed lest by slothfulness they fall. but that any that standeth in Christ jesus, and in the eternal counsel of God can so fall that finally he perish, that we constantly deny. Behold how smoothly God conducteth our tossed boat through the raiging waves of your furious arguments. To the 14. 15 & 16. The fall of the reprobate we remit to god's judgement Albeit that Balaam had been endued with greater graces, then in scriptures, we read that he had, yet doth it not thereof follow, that he had received the spirit of sanctification by true faith, which is given to the elect only. for we find the power given to some to expel devils, whom Christ affirmeth, that he never knew. And therefore willeth he his disciples, not to rejoice in that that spirits were subject unto them, but that their names were written in the book of lief. But yet I wonder where ye have found that Balaam was so filled with the spirit of God, the spirit of truth, the spirit of power and the spirit of grace (as ye writ) that whom) soever he blessed, was blessed, and whom he cursed, he was cursed. I find no such thing witnessed of him by the holy Gost. true it is that Balack gave unto him that praise and commendation that he was assured, that whom he blessed should be happy, & whom he cursed should be cursed But whether that it was the purpose of the holy Ghost to teach and assure us thereby that in very deed such graces were in him, Nom. 23 I greatly doubt. yea I doubt nothing to affirm the contrary, to wit that he neither had power spirit, nor grace of God to bless those whom God hath cursed, nerher yet to curse those whom God hath blessed. for so doth he himself confess. And for that end is the history written. If ye understand that the benediction remained upon jacob because that Balaam did so pronounce and speak, you are more blind than Balaam was. for he assigneth another cause, saying, how shall I curse where God hath not cursed, or how shall I detest where the Lord hath not detested. God is not as man that he should lie, nether as the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? and hath he spoken, and shall he not accomplish it? Behold, I have received commandment to bless: for hehath blessed, and I can not alter it. He seeth none iniquity in jacob, nor seeth no transgression in Israel: the Lord his God, is with him, and the joyful shout of a king is amongst them. In these words, why Balaam blessed Israel & could not curs them. I say, Balaam assigneth the cause why he was compelled to bless Israel, because, saith he, God hath blessed them. And why also he could not change his blessing, because in God there is no mutability, nor change, like as there is in man. And therefore as he had once blessed that people, by his plain word and promise spoken, and revealed to Abraham, so should he most constantly perform it. If malice did not blind you, you should clearly see, that the holy Ghost meaneth nothing les than to teach that Balam was blessed of God, and therefore was not at that time a reprobate: But that Israel was so elected, sosanctified, and blessed of God, that their very ennemis, and such as were hired to curse them, were compelled to give testimony against themselves, that gods people was blessed. But this doth no more make Balaam to be gods elect, than did that confession, which the wicked spirits gave to Christ, (confessing him to be the Son of the living God) change their nature. If you be able to prove that hole Israel so fell from god's favour, that to none of Abraham's posterity did he perform the promise made to him, and to his seed, then have ye proved somewhat of your purpose, to wit, that God may make a promise, & that with an oath, & yet perform no part of it. But if it be manifest that notwithstanding their grudging, their rebellion, their carnal lusts, their idolatry, and abominations, gods promise remained so sure, that the same was performed (after many temptations) in full perfection: Consider what may be concluded against you, in applying examples by similitude, & equality. I would wish in you greater wisdom, then to compare Balaam one particular person, a false prophet accursed of God, and so perishing amongst the ungodly, and hole israel gods elect and chosen people, so blessed of God, that not only they were preserved in all storms, To the 17 & 18. but also of them, according to the flesh, came that blessed seed, the messias promised. To Saul and to his kingdom I have before answered, to wit, that one thing it is to be appointed to a temporal office, and an other to be elected in Christ jesus to lief everlasting. But yet I will add somewhat more, which is this Proposition directly fight against yours: A proposition Saul nor his house was never chosen in gods eternal counsel to be kings and Reulars over Israel for ever. If ye cry, than did the holy Ghost, speaking in Samuel, lie. for he affirmed, that God had prepared the reign and kingdom of Saul upon Israel for ever, I answer Samuel speaketh not in that place, what God had determined in his eternal counsel, 1 Sam. 13 but what he himself thought that God had determined and appointed. And therefore ye may not conclude that the holy Ghost doth lie, except the kingdom of Saul was once appointed to have remained over Israel for ever. Nay, so can ye not conclude. But ye may say, that except that so it was, the prophet was deceived. And so no doubt he was for a season, and did speak those words according to the apprehension & judgement which he had conceived by reason of his unction and lawful election to his office. If it appear hard to you, that the prophets be deceived in any thing, consider I pray you what chanced unto him after. did he not at the sight of Eliab pronounce with an affirmation, that before the eternal, ●. King. 16 he was his anointed? did the holy Ghost lie because that Eliab was refused, and David chosen, or was not rather Samuel ignorant and in an error? the same might I prove by Nathan, & others, who being gods true prophets were yet for a season left in error & did both speak and give counsel otherwies than God had determined in his eternal counsel. But now shortly to prove my proposition, I say, that gods eternal purpose and counsel concerning the chief ruler and governor over Israel was long before pronounced, by jacob in his last testament, Gen. 49 who did appoint the crown, and Sceptre royal to an other tribe then to Benjamin. for thus he saith, Thou judah thy brethren shall praise thee: thine hand shallbe in the the neck of thine enemies: thy father's sons shall bow down unto thee, etc. The Sceptre shall not departed from judah, nether the law giver from betwixt his feet until Shiloh come and the people shallbe gathered to him, etc. here I say it is plain that many years before the election of Saul was the Kingly dignity appointed to juda, which sentence was never after retracted. And therefore my proposition affirming that Saul was never elected in the eternal counsel of God to reign for ever over Israel, standeth sure and sufficiently proved. If any ask to what purpose was Saul than elected king? I answer, because so it pleased gods wisdom to tempt his people, why Saul was elected●● the king doen which was appointed to an ●ther tribs. to tempt the tribe of judah, yea and all the faithful, that then were a live, to tempt them I say, whether they would still depend upon god's promise, & look for their felicity, even by the same means, that God had foresopken: how so ever things appeared to the contrary for a season. The hole people no doubt, yea and Samuel himself, were partly criminal in that point, that they looked for salvation, and for deliverance from all their enemies by the hands of any other, then by one of the tribe of juda: considering that the former prophecy was so plain. But that error he did first correct in his prophet, showing unto him just causes why Saul was unworthy of that great honour, and after he did correct the same in the people moving their hearts to elect David, whom the prophet had before anointed. And so did God retain the firmity of his counsel, and did perform the same, when all things appeared, Plainly to repugn to his promise, yea when men had received an other to be their king, than God by his former promise had appointed. To the 18. 19 & 20. We neither deny the supernatural wisdom and manifold graces given to Solomon, nether yet his most horrible fall, to be a document, and a memorial for ever, of his abominable idolatries, and most unthankful defection from God. which only one example we affirm ought to admonish every man most carefully to examine him self, with what simplicity he walketh before god's Majesty. But whether that Solomon so became the son of the devil, that after he did never return to God but that finally he did perish, we dare not be bold to pronounce sentence. And that because to us it appeareth, that God did make unto him a promise of mercy, his grievous offence not withstanding. 2. Sam. 7 for this did God speak by Nathan of him: when thy days shallbe fulfilled, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, and I will set up thy seed after the which shall proceed out of thy body, and will establish his kingdom, he shall build an house for my name, & I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever: I will be his father and he shallbe my son: and if he sin, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the plagues of the children of men. But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I have put away before thee, etc. howsoever ye list to understand this free mercy promised to abide after in iquitie committed, you cannot deny, but that a plain difference is made betwixt Solomon, & Saul. And if ye think, that nothing spoken in that place, did appertain to Solomon, who was born before that David had finished his days & did sleep with his fathers, but that all is performed in Christ, who many years after did spring of him ye do not rightly mark the words of God nether yet the mind of the holy Ghost, he saith not, that the child who should build a house to the name of God, and whose kingdom he would establish, should be borne after his death, but that God should raise one who should spring of his own loins, whom he would so honour after his death, that he would become his father, whom he would so entreat: that albeit he should offend, yet should he not be rejected from regiment in Israel, as Saul was, and so was the kingdom established not only to David, but also to his posterity after him. The perfection no doubt was reserved to Christ jesus, but so was the verity in him, that the figure passed before in Solomon. Moreover somewhat is spoken in this promise, which in no wise can be referred to Christ jesus. for how shall any be able to prove that the just sede of David in whose mouth was no deceat found, did in any sort wickedly in his own person, so that he had need of mercy, & to be corrected with the rod of the children. This I note, to give you occasion to take heed what sentence ye pronounce in things so far removed from the reach of your understanding. To the 21 In the history of jeroboam, ye do not observe that whatsoever is promised unto him, except the first 〈◊〉 of the ten tribes, is conditional. for thus saith the Prophet unto him. 3 K●g, 11 And if thou hearken unto all that I command thee, and wilt walk in my ways, & do right in my sight as did David my servant, then will I be, with thee, and build thee azure house, as I built unto David & will give Israel unto thee, etc. I pray you what can ye hereof conclude? That jeroboam say you not withstanding gods election and free ordinance did fall from the favour of God. But how be you able to prove, that he was elected and before ordained to stand in god's favour for ever? These sayings, if thou walk before me in righteousness, if thou keep my precepts, and such others, will not prove it. I can evidently prove that jeroboam, and all the kings in Israel after him were given to the people in gods anger, and were taken away in his hot displeasure, for so doth the Prophet Oseas witness. Now if you can prove, that such rulers, as be given in god's wrath, and taken away in his just fury, were elected and before ordained to stand in his favour for ever, advise which your counsellors, and produce your witness against the next time. To the 22. 23. That judas was never elected to life everlasting, I have before declared and therefore at this present I only say, that no more did Christ mean of judas that he should be the salt of the earth, the light of the world, nether that he should sit upon any seat to judge any tribe in Israel, then that he meant of Peter, that he was the devil, that he should betray him, or that better it it had been for him never to have been borne. for as Christ in pronouncing the words, you twelve have I choose but one of you is the devil, one of you shall betray me in express words he did nether appoint the person of judas to that fact, nether yet did exempt and make free any of the rest, from suspicion of that crime, in express words (I say) So like wise in saying, ye are the salt of the earth and you shall sit upon twelve seats, etc. he neither meant of the hole number of the twelve, nether yet of them only. for as for judas, I doubt not to affirm, but that according, as it was written in the book of Psalms, That his habitation should be desolate, & that an other should receive the honour of his bushoprike: that so even in the time, when he stood in the ministery most sure to man's judgement, that yet in gods eternal counsel, he was appointed to that treason, and most fearful end. and I suppose that none will be so perverse of judgement, as to deny, that none other was appointed to be the salt of the earth, and the light of the world, except those twelve. I verily believe that Paul is nothing inferior to any of the chiefest Apostles in that case. And so yet I affirm, that nether were those words spoken of all the twelve, nether yet of them only. If this can not satisfy your curiosity, labour you to prove that judas was elected to life everlasting in Christ jesus before the foundations of the world were laid. I have before proved that the elect can not finally refuse nor deny Christ jesus their head, and therefore I will not trouble the reader with the repetition. The place of ezechiel Ez●● 18. serveth nothing your purpose. for there doth he only entreat of such righteous men, as in the beginning of the same chapter used this proverb: The fathers have eaten sour grapes and the children's teeth are set on edge, signifying thereby (as before we have declared) that they were just and innocent and that yet they did suffer punishment, for the offences of their fathers. Against whom the Prophet speaketh most sharply affirming that the soul which did sin should die: in this praising gods justice, that he would suffer sin unpunished in none of his creatures, supposing that some for a time, had a show of righteousness. The prophet doth further accuse, and convict their consciences, for they knew themselves criminal in all crimes, which the prophet there recited. And therefore to provoke them to repentance with this exhortation: Cast away from you (saith he) all your transgressions whereby ye have transgressed, and make you a new heart, and a new spirit, for why will you die o house of Israel, for I desire not the death of him that dieth (saith the Lord God) Cause therefore one another to return, and live ye. Of this conclusion (I say) it easily may appear of what sort of righteous men the Prophet speaketh: not of such as being engrafted in Christ's body, by the true sanctification of his spirit, do daily study to mortify their affections: but of such as having an outward appearance or show of holiness, did notwithstanding louse the bridle to all impiety. In very deed God can not remember the justice of any such (which is not) but their sins must crave just vengeance, & that the rather because by them the name of God is blasphemed. Now to the rest of that which followeth in your book. THE ADVERSARY. This say you, The 33 sectio with many other manifest testimonies of the Scriptures, ye ●osse, and turn upside doune seeking shifts to maintain your errors, where by you declare yourself to be of the number of them, of whom it is written in the same place, which do say tush the way of the Lord is not indifferent ye will not that the Lord judge according to this way set. forth in his word but of necessity by an immutable 〈◊〉 save a certain, & of necess●tie to condemn all the rest, ye must not so read gods word studying rather to teach the holy Ghost, then to learn your duty of him, seeking means rather to confirm your preconceaved error, then to avoid it. what true●● can he learn at the word of God, which worshippeth the idol of his own fantasy, and hath already forsaken the mind of the truth. Remember that the first less●̄ of wisdom, is to be willing to learn wisdom▪ Cast away therefore the idols of your hearts, which made you st●mble in your ways, submit yourselves to the word, as humble and meek lambs. for the lamb only was found worthy to open the seals of the book. Trust not your error to be the-better because it hath many favourers specially of them, which have the name of learning for such have been always in all ages, enemies to the truth inventors of sects & errors, such like as jannes' and Iambres resisted Moses so do they the truth, as the learned scribes & Pharisees blasphemed the word of God and persecuted Christ the truth itself, so do they yet in hu membres. And even as the pharisees said, do any of the rulers or of the pharisees believe in him, this common people which know not the law is cursed, so say they nowdo any of our learned doctors teach so these unlearned fellows are cursed, for they can not understand gods word they understand only the english tongue, & yet will they meddle with 〈◊〉, as though the gift 〈◊〉 & the gifts of prophesying were so bound together, that God could not minister the one without the other. but this is no new● thing, for this was laid to Christ, & his Apostles charge▪ that they were unlearned▪ But the holy Ghost wille● us not to judge so. mark saith Paul, your calling how that not many wise men after the flesh not many migthie not many of hieght degree are called but God ha●h chosen the weak things of the world the vile things of the world, & things which are despised, & of 〈◊〉 reputation to confound the mighty, & to bring to nought things of reputation, how can such great men believe, seeing they seek to be praised one of an other and to be preferred for their knowledge in the tongues, & for the multitude of their books which they writ, such learned men are more meet to be in Herodes hall, them in Christ's stable, the door is to low & ●hey 〈◊〉 stout, they may not stoop so low for the disgracing of their gravity, only poor shepherds which are accustomed to stables are found meet to have Christ revealed to them, not that I disp●se learning or learned men. for I know that learning is the good gift of God: ye● as S Paul saith knowledge maketh a man to swell, and many in our time as in all age's paste do abuse this good gift of God, yet not all, God forbidden, for some I know, I praise God to whom it hath pleased God to reveal the truth of this matter, which in perfect knowledge of the songs, are to be compared with any of your Rabbes. Be not deceived therefore with vain 〈◊〉 of learning, or of worldly wisdom ifye seek Christ, seek him where he is in the poor stable, and not in Annas and Caiphas pallasses, without ye will see and hear Christ accused, to such a banquet peradventure Christ may be called of the learned. If you will have Christ, ye must not go to seek him in ●he universities where you may be praised for your sharp wits and eloquent tongues, but you must go forth unto him out of the tents and suffer rebuke with him▪ know ye not that the learned phareseis and layers coveted to talk sometime with Christ, not to learn but to dispute, and trap him, in his sayings and so did the learned Philosophers of Grecia with Paul. Awake therefore in time, be no longer deceived with he●r authority examine yourselves examine yourselves I say how much ye have increased in Christ by his doctrine, what perfection it hath wrought in you, & how much Christ is fashioned in you by it. If you will forsake this error, & embrace the truth, where by ye are taught that God will all men to be saved, ye shall God willing perceive more increase in godliness, & that shortly, then ever ye could or durst look for continuing in your error. ANSWER. Whether that you or we pervert the meaning of the holy Ghost speaking in hisholie scriptures, To the 1 we chief remit judgement to him, who shall judge the world with equity, not refusing also in the mean season the judgement of indifferent readers. To your unjust accusations, cavillations, and malicious reports, I will answer no thing, till the end of this work. And then I purpose to lay before your eyes such things, To the 1. 2. 3. 4 as ye can not deny, to the end that the simple may judge, which of us do worship the Idol of our own fantasies, and have forsaken the mind of the truth. To the 5 Albeit that ye, and your capteyn Castalio begin now to despise learning, yet be ye never able to prove that we have despised godliness in the most simple of our brethren. howbeit we can not conceal the truth, affirming, that he who hath faithfully travaled in the tongues, and in the writings of godly men is, more able to avoid error, and also more apt to teach the truth and to confute the adversary, than he which is altogether ignorant, except in his natural tongue. for we know that miracles, and the visible gifts of the holy Ghost, given in the days of the Apostles are now ceased. therefore I say, we are not so proud, that we despise learning, nether yet so malicious, that we contemn the meanest gift that God hath given to any of our brethren. To the ● If any be that boast or brag of their knowledge in the tongues, or of the multitude of the books, which they writ I will confess them worthy of most sharp rebuke. But as for such as be principal instruments of Christ jesus, how much they have profited the Church of God, and how little praise, or commendation they have sought or do seek of man, the day when the secrets of all hearts shallbe revealed, will declare and men, who be most familiarly acquainted with them partly can witness. As we do not envy the perfect knowledge in tongues of such as you praise, T● the 7 so do we unfeignedly desire God, so to govern their hearts, if his good pleasure be, that rather they study to edify Christ's afflicted Church, them to accuse, slander, and traduce such, as in the vineyard of the Lord, have laboured, and daily do labour much more than they do. To the ● That ye will us to turn from that with ye call our error promising us (if so we will do) more perfection shortly, then ever we durst have looked for we must be first taught that our doctrine is erroneous, and after, for the assurance of our hope, we must have more than the promise of men. Thus ye proceed THE ADVERSARY. To prove that they which be once elect can never, The 2. argument fall they allege this saying of Christ: There shall arise falls Christ's & falls prophets, and shall show great miracles, The 34. section. & wonders in so much, that if it were possible the very elect should be deceived▪ of this they gather, that it is not possible, that the elect should be deceived, & this conditional, if it were possible, etc. affirmeth nothing. But admitting i● be so, we must understand, that the thing which is very hard & difficile to be done is called vnp●ssible in the scripture as in that place, Luc 18. it is easier for acamele, to go through the eye of an uncle, then for the rich to enter in to the kingdom of God. This is called impossible▪ because it is very hard, & difficile to be d●ne. yet be there rich men, which inherit the kingdom of heaven. how can you believe saith Christ which, receive honour one of an other▪ john. 5. this seemeth unpossible by Christ's words yet many such were converted to Christ. And the same spirit of vain glory was amongst the elect Apostles of Christ, after they had continued a long time with him, isaiah. 49 for they contended who should be superior among themselves. can a woman forget the child of her womb, and not pity the same whom she hath born which though it seem unpossible for as much as it is contrary to nature, yet do women destroy and devour their own births▪ May a man of Ind change his skin, and the cate of the mountane her spots, jere. 13 no more may ye that be exercised in evil do good. such we be of ourselves, notwithstanding by the power of God we be regenerate, we leave of from our evil exercises, and do that which is good. Thus we see it is called impossible in the scriptures, which is contrary to nature which exceedeth our strength & therefore is difficile and hard to be done, ●uē so it is impossible. That it is a very hard thing that the elect which follow the lā●● whether so ever he g●eth, should be deceived, yet not withstanding it may come to pass, ●. Cor. 11 as Eva was the elect of God, and not withstanding the Apostle witnesseth that she was beguiled and deceived by the Serpent, therefore warne● Christ the elect Apostles saying, take heed that no man deceive you. Mat. 24 If Christ had been of your opinion, that the elect could not be deceived to what purpose should he bid his chosen take heed lest any man should deceive them. 2, The. 2 Let no man deceive you saith Paul to the thessalonians, to whom he bore witness that they were worthy of the kingdom of heaven, yet was he careful, left they should be deceived and mou●d from their good mind either by spirit, or by words, or by letter which should some to come from him And to the Ephesians, Ephes▪ 5 Let no man deceive you with vain words for because of such things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of desobedience And likewise▪ warneth he the Romans, to mark and avoid such as with swe●e and flattering words decaved the hearts of the innocent. As the old prophet which dwelled in Bethel deceived the man of God, which came from juda, and propehcied against the altar which jeroboam builded, I am a prophet (said he) also as well as thou, and an angel spoke unto me in the name of the Lord saying, bring him again with the into thine own house, that he may eat bread and drink water, and he lied and deceived the man of God. Such lying prophets be now a days, wihch say, they be sent from God, and call the people to their congregations, without which they say, there is no salvation. for they condemn all others, which be not of their sect. And when they have alured the people with false erroneous doctrine, they provoke them to a careless libertyne lief, apt to allure any man. Be aware friends that ye go not with them, lest as the man of God for his going back, was killed of a lion, so ye be slain by errors and devoured of the devil, which as a roaring Lion goeth about, seeking whom he may devour, of the testimonies a 'bove recited it appeareth that the elect may be deceived. And yet i● is the phrase of the scripture to call it impossible which is very hard and difficile to be done. There be also many elect wihiche full away, not because they are deceived but willingly and purposely, as judas was not deceived but wilfully refused the grace of God. Also Achitophel being a notable witt●e man, was not deceived by any man's persuasion but wilfully refused his master David, and played the trayor. Balaam was not deceived. for he knew well the will and the mind of God. Salom●n was not deceived in whom grace and will abounded above all others: and yet forsook he God. S● the elect though they be not deceived, yet be they at liberty and may refuse the grace of God, if they will. And think you that Adam or any other can be sa●ed by g●ds ordinance. if they wilfully forsake it? can any maune be saved by Christ, which doth forsake him? they which be once lightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gifts, & are become partakers of the holy G●st, and have tasted of the good word of God, and of the power of the world to come, I can not tell, how they should be deceived: ye● may they fall away, and crucify the Son of God afresh, and make a mock of him, Likewise they which be sanctified by the spirit of God, and sprinkling of blood of the testament, they may tredde the Son of God under foot. ANSWER. If it had pelased you either diligently to have red out writings, either faithfully to have recited the testimonies, which we use for confirmation of our doctrine, ye should have found more, and such as be somewhat more plain than any of those that ye take upon you to confute. But praised be God who giveth such majesty, even to those places, which ye yourself appoint, that when ye have said all, yet doth the verity remain invincible. That this conditional, If, in these words, To the ●, 2 & 3. if it were possible, the elect should be drawn into error, affirmeth nothing, I am content, so that the same reason be a law against you in all other places. But that this word impossible shallbe interpreted in all places of Scripture by this phrase, a thing hard to be done, I can not admit, without testimonies more evident, then yet ye have adduced, for the most part of those plainly deny that interpretation. For as it is impossible for a Camel (or Cable, that is a great rope of a ship) remaining in the own quantity, to go through an nedils eye (remaining in the own straitness) so is it like impossible for a rich man remaining in his own natural pride, covetousness, and corruption, to enter in to the kingdom of God. and therefore▪ when those which heard, were offended, ask, And who may then attain to salvation? Christ answered, things that be impossible before man, are possible with God. mark well that Christ called the humiliation of the rich man, impossible unto man, but possible unto God. And the same I say is true of those that seek glory and praise of men. for impossible it is unto such abiding in that corruption unfeignedly to believe in Christ jesus. for albeit the spirit of vain glory did now and then burst out and appear amongs the disciples, yet was it always repressed and corrected by the severe obiurgation of their master, and in the end, by the power of the holy spirit, it was removed. God doth not affirm that it is impossible to a woman to forget the child of her bosom, but laying his perfect love against her natural love corrupted, he saith, if she may, yet, can not I forget them that trust in me: and so he preferreth his love towards his children, to the love of any creature, which they can bear towards others. The examples of the man of Ind, and of the Cat of the mountain, can in no wise receive your interpretation. for the impossibility of the one, and of the other, experience of long continuance hath taught us. for we see that although the Morian change the region where he was born, yet keepeth he his natural blackness: nether yet can any art utterly remove the spots of that beast, which the Prophet in that place calleth the ●●opard. how impossible it is that they be changed, none can be ignorant, except such as have not seen or do not know the beast, nor her nature. And therefore upon these two things to nature impossible did the Prophet conclude, that no more could the citizens of jerusalem, being exercised in all iniquity leave the same, and so was it impossible, impossible I say to themselves and to their own power. for what the Spirit of God worketh in the conversion of sinners, ought not to be attributed unto man's power. And thus I say that those things, which the holy Ghost pronounced to be impossible, remain impossible. And therefore it is not only ahard and a difficile thing that the elect of God, who follow the lamb where ever he goeth, be so deceived that finally they perish, but also it is impossible: and that because the true pastor conducteth them, leadeth them forth to the wholesome pastures, and waters of lief, illuminateth them by the presence of his light: and finally doth sanctify and confirm them in his eternal verity by the power of his holy Spirit Upon those words of the Apostle I fear lest that your senses be corrupted from the simplicity, To the 4. & ●. which is in Christ even as the serpent deceived Eva, ye labour to prove that the elect shall be deceived for she, say you was the elect of God, and yet she was deceived. In few words I answer that because she was the elect of God, she remained not in that error. we do not deny, but that the simple sheep do sometimes err, and go astray from their pastor, that they hear to their great danger the owling of wolves, & do credit, and receive lies for verity, yea & further that sometimes with knowledge, they commit iniquity. But that they are permitted in the same finally, and without redemption to perish, that we constantly deny. for impossible it is that the lively members shall lack participation with the head. Impossible it is that Christ's death shall lack his effect, which is the life of those that of his father are committed to his charge, of whom impossible it is, that any shall perish. for the number of our brethren must be complete, nether yet doth it hereof follow, that exhortations & admonitions be superfluous, & vain. for they are the means which the wisdom of God knoweth to be most necessary to stir up our dull senses, which always be ready to lie in a certain security, And therefore the words of our master spoken to his disciples and the admonition of Paul to the Churches in his days doth much profit, comfort, and confirm us: for by the same we are so armed against offences and slanders, which daily do chance, that albeit we see that from amongst ourselves arise such as bring in damnable sects. which lead many to perdition, yet we do not therefore detest nor ahbore Christ's simple verity but being provoked by that fall & dejection of others, with great solicitude and care, we call for the assistance of gods holy spirit en those most miserable and most wicked days. To the 7 That ye affirm us to be lying prophets not sent of God but such as run of ourselves, calling to our congregation the people, whom after we provoke to a careless & libertine life, we answer not to you but to our God. judge us (o Lord) in this cause according to our innocency, & according to the purity, which thy spirit hath form in our hearts, destroy all lying lips, and confound thou those, that of malice trouble thy afflicted flock. Let your friends, To the 8 enemies to gods eternal truth, proud boasters of their own justice, and suppressers to their power of Christ's glory, give ear, if they list, to your admonition, absenting themselves from all well reformed congregations. We will not cease to exhort all the faithful to frequent and haunt the places where Christ's Euangil is truly and openly preached, his holy sacrementes rightly ministered according to his own ordinance and institution: And also where discipline is put in practice according to that ordre which he himself hath commanded. Nether yet will we cease to affirm that your privy assemblies, and all those that in despite of Christ's blessed ordinance, do frequent the same are accursed of God. We do not deny, To the 9 but that judas, Achitophel, Balaam, and many more willingly and of determined purpose did wickedly & most unthankfully offend, but what is this to your matter, It resteth always, to be proved that they were elected in Christ jesus by the eternal counsel of God. To the 10 Your foolish question demanding if Adam or any other man can be saved by Christ. which doth forsaik him, I have before answered, plainly proving, that the elect children can not finally forsaik and contemn the ordinance of their father. Nether yet can the membres, refuse the lief which they receive from their head. And that because the Spirit of God, drawing them to Christ, maketh them to feel their necessity, which they have of him. The elect of God can not forsake Christ. And therefore with all thank fullness and joy do they receive him who is made to us from God, wisdom, justice, satisfaction, redemption, and lief. To me it appeareth a very foolish questi●, if any should demand if a man perfect in wit, memory and reason, feeling him elf so pressed which hunger or thirst, that of necessity he must perish, except nature were supported, to ask, (I say) if such a man willingly and obstinately would refuse wholesome meat, and drink, appeareth foolish, and vain. And such is your question, for the elect children do feel their own misery, hunger thirst and poverty, yea they labour under the burden of their sins, which they hate, of the which they would be relieved. And therefore they can not refuse the justice, lief and assured redemption, which is offered to them in Christ jesus. To whom be all praise glory and honour for ever. The place of the Apostle I have before answered and therefore I shortly come to that which ye call. THE ADVERSARY. The third error of the careless by necessity God hath two manner of wills, The 35. section. one revealed will, and a secret will which is only known ●o himself▪ by g●ds re●●led will men should not come to nought, but they which porish, so perish by his secret will, in respect of gods commandment. It was n●t gods will, that Adam should sin, but in respect of gods secret will God would Adam to fall. ANSWER. How maliciously ye pervert our words, and how impudently ye forge upon us a form of doctrine, which did never enter into our thogthes shall appear God willing bv answering to that, which ye call the confutation of our third error, which thus beginneth. THE ADVERSARY. The authors of this wicked opinion, The 36. section. when they could not sufficiently confirm their errors, by the auctoiite of god's word, they invented a new shift to approve it by gods secret will. for say they: Though God by his revealed will, will all men to be saved, yet by hi● secret will, he willeth many to be damned, by his revealed will, he will no wickedness, but by his secret will he will Pharaoh to be hard hearted, S●m●● to curs David the patriarchs to sell their brother joseph etc. by his revealed will he would 〈◊〉 that, Adam should fall, but by his secret will be willeth Adam to full I marvel much where ye have found out this manner of doctrine for n●ther, Moses and the prophets. nether Christ and his Apostles use any such manner of doctrine. further what profit do yeto the pe●ple wi●h this doctrine? Sure I am that you cause many to conceive an evil opinion of God hereby. But now for asmuch, as the secret will of God, ●●k●owe● to none but ●o himself alone, who hath reveal it to you? how can ye say this is god● secret will? if it was gods sec●e●● will ●hat Ad● should fall and you knew it then it is both secret and 〈◊〉, both revealed and unreveled, both known, & unknown. what great absurdity is this? can a man call that which he knoweth unknown? or that which is secret revealed. so may a man say, Eccle. 3. hearing is not hearing, light ●s no light. By this strange doctrine, you would be counted wise but you are so much from the right way, Oh that you could look upon that always. that you are become foolish, you can not content yourself with such things as it hath pleased God to reveal in his word for our comfort, but will needs know gods secret will. Search not saith Sirach out the ground of things as are to mighty for the but look what God hath commanded thee, and look upon that always, and be not curious in many of his works, for it is not needful for the to see with thine eyes things that are secret. the meddling with such things hath beguiled many a man and tangled their wits in vanity. Prover, 28 And in the Proverbs: Eyke as it is not good to eat to much honey, even so he that will search out hiegh things, it shallbe to heavy for him. woe be unto them (saith the Lord) that are wise in their own sight, isaiah 5. and think themselves to have understanding. for he that presumeth to know the secret will of God, and thereby will confirm his error, he can not be reform by gods revealed will, Rom. 12 which is the word. Be not wise saith Paul, in your own opinions. And the holy Ghost: be not wise in your own conceit; but flare the Lord and departed from evil, Prou. 3 so shall thy navel be hole and thy bones strong▪ And I● but is not we that can find out the almighty. job 37 for in power, equity, and righteousness he is hiegher, then can be expressed. Let men therefore fear him. for there shall no man see him that is wise in his own conceit, we must not ●eke out thee, secrets of God, for we shall not prevail, but bring ourselves to consufion. If we go about to establish our opinions by gods secret will, we must needs f●ll in horrible darkness and errors. for who can know what the will of God is, we must submit ourselves with all humility to the word, and there with great reverence search out such things as are written for our comfort and edification. which we can not duly understand without the spirit of God to teach us, as it is written, oh Lord who can have knowledge of thy understanding and meaning, except th●w give him wisdom, and send thy holy Ghost from above? Sap. 9 But if we prepare ourselves with reverence to read the word of God to the intent to understand it to our consolation, and with humility submit ourselves to do it, God will open to us so much as is either necessary or profitable for us. ANSWER. What confirmation our doctrine hath by the invincible, To the 1. 2. 3. 4 and most evident testimonies of gods holy scriptures, I will not now dispute: only I must compleine, that maliciously, and most impudently ye wrist our words, and pervert our minds. And for the probation thereof I say that ye are never able to show in any of our writings the words and sentences, which in this place ye affirm us to say. ye be never able (I say) to prove that we have written or taught: that God by his revealed will, will all men to be saved, and yet by his secret will, he willeth many to be damned. That by his reu●led will he willeth no wickedness, but by his secret will, he will Pharaoh to be hard hearted, Semei to curse David, the patriarchs to sell their brother joseph, that by his revealed will, he would not that Adam should fall, but by his secret will he willeth Adam to fall. These propositions I say, you be never able to show in our writings, nether yet to prove that our doctrine did or doth tend to that end. for we constantly affirm that God revealed unto us his most holy and most just will in his plain and holy scriptures, which do assure us, that a separation shallbe made betwixt the goats, and the lambs, that the one shall receive the kingdom propared unto them before all beginning, and that the other shallbe adjudged to the fire which never shallbe quenched. That God stirred and raised up Pharaoh, that his power might be declared in him, that these words God plainly spoke to Moses: I know that Pharaoh shall not permit the people to departed, therefore have I hardened his heart, Eu●. 9 that I may multiply my wonders upon him: that David did repress the fury of Abisai, and of his servants who would have killed Semei, 2 King. 16. saying: suffer him to curse, for the Lord hath commanded him the Lord perchance shall behold my affliction, and shall reward me with good for his cursing this day. That joseph said to his brethren, Gene. 45 be you not moved with sorrow, that ye have sold me, for the Lord hath sent me for conservation of a great multitude, it is not therefore you that have sent me hither, but God, who hath made me father to Pharaoh, and Lord over his hole house. None of all these I say do we cast upon gods secret will, as ye falsely accuse us: but we do constantly affirm that his will, is so plainly revealed in these matters that such as shall deny any of them to have been gods will, can not escape abnegation of his eternal verity. And further we say that the fall of man, is plainly revealed unto us, not only by experience, but even by that same law which was imposed to him shortly after his creation, the transgression whereof made Adam and all his posterity criminal and guilty to god's justice: & that nether against gods will revealed, nether yet against his secret wil for by his will revealed can no man further conclude, but this, that in what day soever Adam should eat of the fruit forbidden, that he should die the death. But Adam against gods command ement did eat: and therefore did he justly underly the sentence of death. And thus do we refer to gods will manifestly revealed, what soever ye imagine, that we ascribe to his secret will. Nether yet need you to marvel, if ye list to take such pains, as to read our writings, where that we find the doctrine that we teach (your surmised lie, we cast upon yourselves) seeing that Moses, the prophets, Christ jesus, and his Apostles in all writings do affirm the same. But yet lest that ye should think that we attribute nothing to gods secret will, To the 5 I will in few words confess what we teach maintain and believe, in that case. And that the rather because you gather agreate absurdity, not of our doctrine, but of that which ye falsely imput upon us, in this manner. for asmuch (you say) as the secret will of God is known to none but to himself alone, Who hath revealed it to you? how can you say this is gods secret will? if it was gods secret will that Adam should fall and you knew it▪ then it is both secret and unsecret, both revealed and unreveled, both known and unknown. What great absurdity is this? To the which I answer according to your impudent foolishness, that because you fight with your own shadow, these your darts do hurt us nothing, for we do not affirm, that we do know the fall of man by gods secret will, but by his will manifestly revealed unto us by his holy scriptures. Or more plainly to answer your reasons, which you think invincible: we say, that that will which was secret in God before all time, was revealed to man in time by his own word, and that from time to to time the same became more manifest, as saint Paul witnesseth in these words: ●phes. 3. To me the least of all saints is given this favour (or grace) that I should preach amongst the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, That I should bring forth to light before all men, what is the communion of the mystery which was hid from all ages in God, who hath made all things by Christ jesus, that the manifest wisdom of God may now be notified to principates, and powers in heavenly things by the Church, according to the fore appointment of the ages which he hath made in Christ jesus our lord. so that we are now bold to say, that albeit no creature did know before all time what ordre God should keep in the creation and disposition of all things in time: yet may we now I say be bold to affirm that the secret was hid in the eternal counsel of God. That first he would create the heaven the earth, the mass being rude, having darkness upon the great depth, thereafter that he would make light putting division between the light & the darkness, and so forth as Moses hath declared the ordre observed in the creation. And as those things were sometime secret, but now are manifest, revealed and known so likewies was the fall of man, and the redemption which cometh by Christ jesus sometime secret in the eternal counsel of God, but now is most manifestly preached and declared by Christ jesus, and by his holy Apostles. for now we know that God so loved the world, that his only beloved Son hath he given, that so many as do believe in him, shall have the life everlasting. Which life was even before all times in Christ jesus, even as we were elected in him before the foundations of the world were laid. And therefore I doubt not to affirm, but that the fall of man and the remedy for the same, was not only foreseen but also before determined, and the fruit which of the same should ensue concluded and appointed in gods eternal counsel before that ever Adam was created. the reason and probation hereof we have before declared to be the issue of all things, as we are taugh by gods manifest word, yea by most evident experience. for who needeth now to doubt, that it was gods eternal counsel, that man should fall from that perfect image in which he was created and so become subject to the death, to the end that the faithful might receive perfection, justice and life in Christ jesus alone, seeing that scripture so manifestly affirmeth that we were elected in Christ jesus before the foundations of the world were laid that God hath wrapped all nations in disobedience that he might have mercy upon all, Rom. 11 upon all I say which refuse not the remedy, from all beginning prepared, which is Christ jesus, as the Apostle witnesseth, saying: in him & by him, areal things created, & he is before all things, Colo. 1. & all things consist or abide by him, and he is the head of the body of the Church, who is the beginning, the first begotten of the dead, that in all things he may hold the pre-eminence. for it hath pleased the father that all fullness should dwell in him▪ and to reconcile, by him all things to himself. This counsel I say was not temporal, as taken and devised after the fall of man, but it was eternal, as the same Apostle witnesseth in these words: Ti●●. 2 God hath called us by an holy vocation, not according to our works but according to his purpose and grace, which was given to us by jesus Christ before eternal times, but is now made manifest by the appearing of our saviour jesus Christ. But mark well that the Apostle saith that grace was given to the faithful by Christ jesus from the eternity of times which thus to Titus he doth confirm saying, Tit. 1. Paul the servant of God, and an Apostle of jesus Christ according to the faith of gods elect, and the knowledge of the verity, which is according to godliness in the hope of eternal life, which he hath promised, which is God that can not lie, before the world began, and hath opened his word at the time appointed through preaching etc. And the same saith Peter speaking of our redemption by Christ's precious blood, 1. Pet. 1. who certainly was preordinate, sayeth he, before that the world was made, but was manifested in the last times. Having these I say most evident scriptures to assure our conscience that redemption, remission of our sins, grace, and reconciliation, were appointed for us, yea and were given unto us before all times, what need we to doubt, what was the counsel of God in man's creation, or what was his secret will in giving to him the commandment of not eating the fruit, and therefore you do not only foolishly, but also injuriously in thus raling upon us, what strange and monstruous doctrine is this? to say things be secret, and unsecret, known, and unknowene, revealed and unreveled, as man should say hearing? is not hearing and light is not light. No such absurdity can justly be gathered upon our doctrine, for simply we say that things sometimes kept secret in the counsel of God, and unknown to the sons of men, were after disclosed. and made manifest to the world, in so much, that light expelled darkness from the hearts of the sons of light, and knowledge removed ignorance from those, that were appointed to life. If these things do not satisfy you, yet my good hope is, that the godly reader shall perceive, that most unjustly you accuse us, as if in our doctrine were plain contradiction. And yet as touching the secret will of God we moreover affirm, that our eternal election, in Christ jesus, our temporal falling in Adam, our restitution to life, by the promise made, are not secret, but manifestly revealed. But why that so it pleased his infinite wisdom, and goodness to dispose, and before ordain the mystery of our salvation: that first we should bear the image of the earthly and carnal Adam, before that we should bear the image of the heavenly and spiritual: that first we should be all wrapped in sin, and by reason thereof in misery & death, before that we should be perfect just, and come to felicity, and life everlasting, and finally why that it pleased his Majesty to choose some: and of this same mass to reject others, we say is not revealed, neither yet shallbe revealed before that Christ jesus appear in his glory, when the books shallbe opened and all secrets shallbe disclosed. To speak the matter so simply as I can, that ye have no occasion to complein of obscurity, I say that gods will in these subsequentes and in many others his wondrous works is secret. first why did not God more, suddenly create the world? why gave he to Adam no greater strength? why did he permit him to fall? why he did not provide man's redemption by some other means, than by the cruel and ignominious death of his own son? why did he choose the seed of Abraham to be his people, refusing and rejecting as it were the rest of the world? And finally why that God would that his dear son should die in jerusalem, called his own City, by reason of the temple and sacrifices appointed? why (I say) that God by the figures of the law, and by his Prophets had before spoken, that the Messiah should suffer in that city, and that the builders, who then only in earth were reputed & known to be the Church of God, should reject and refuse the chief corner stone Christ jesus? In these and others the wondrous works of God (which so far exceed the reach of our understanding, To the 6. 7. 8. that more able they are to quench and swallow up all light which remaineth in us, then is the great depth of the sea to devour our frail bodies) do we hold the secret will of God for a rule of all equity, perfection and sufficiency, teaching and affirming that if any man of vain curiosity or of devilish pride, presume to define or determine upon these or others his inscrutable secrets, the causes whereof (other than his secret, but most just will) is not, neither shallbe revealed, till the full glory of the sons of God be manifested, when the wisdom, goodness, justice and mercy of God shall so evidently appear to the full contentation of his elect, & to the most just convicting of the consciences of the very reprobate, to whom shall be left no place of excuse, but in their own consciences they shall receive the just sentence of their most just condemnation. and so shall they in torments glorify the most just & most severe judgement of God, and his unspeakable hatred against sin conceived. We teach and affirm (I say) that if any man in this life travail to search out other causes of these foresaid works of God (than his secret will) that the same man headlongs casteth himself in to horrible confusion, which he can not escape without speedy repentance. And against such men are all the scriptures by you alleged, spoken and written, and not against us, who as we affirm nothing which god's word doth not plainly teach us, so do we cease curiously to inquire any cause of his works, other than it hath pleased his godly wisdom, and mercy to reveal unto us by his holy spirit plainly speaking in his holy scriptures. And therefore to you it shallbe most profitable to try and examine this matter with greater indifferency, than hitherto you have done, and to ponder, and weigh whether it be ye or we that be wise in our own conceit, sight or opinion, or that go about to find out the almighty, Rom. 12 that is to subject his Majesty, job. 37● and wisdom to the judgement of our corrupt reason, You (I say) who upon his words plainly spoken by the holy Ghost, and upon his works which he neither fearerh nor eshameth to attribute and claim to himself, dare make these blasphemous conclusions: Then is he more cruel than a wolf, then is he a dissembler, The sayings of Castalio against john. Cal●in. then beareth he honey in his mouth & gall in his breast, then is he author of sin, & himself then is he unjust & contrarious to himself, or we that coming but only to the sight of gods incomprehensible judgements, with all trembling & reverence fall done before his Majesty & with the Apostle do cry, Oh the deepness of the riches & wisdom and knowledge of God, how inscrutable are his judgements and unsearchable are his ways, who hath known the mind of the Lord or who hath been of his counsel, or who hath given unto him first, that he should recompense him? for of him, and by him and in him are all things. to him be glory for ever, Amen. Be you yourselves judges I say whether you or we do search out things that be above the reach of our capacities, and by that means study to bring God as it were in bondage to our reasons. but now that which followeth in these words. ADVERSARY. Thy word sayeth David is a lantern to my feet and a light unto my steps. The 37. section when thy word goeth forth it giveth light and understanding even Unto babes: Psal 119 all the words of the Lord are pure and clean it is a shield to them that put their trust in it. And the Prophet Esaya: if any man lack light ●et him look upon the law, and the testimony. we must not leave the word and seek to establish our fantasies, either by reason or gods secret will. for we are commanded that we turn not from the word nether to the right hand, nor to the left, that thou mayest saye●h the holy Ghost have understanding in all that thou takest in hand. This is sufficient for us and this we ought for to do. But we know say you even by the word, that God hath a secret will, whereby he worketh all that pleaseth him very well and can you prove thereby that God hath two wills? Pro. 30. God hath revealed so much of his will as is profitable for us to us to know. Esa, 8. the rest which is nether necessary nor meet for us to know he hath not revealed. Is it therefore an other will? or is that which is not revealed contrary to that which is revealed? then shall there be contrariety, in God, which is fals. if God in respect of his revealed will, would not that Adam should fall but in respect of his secret will, Rom. 12 he would Adam should fall then did God will two contraries which is impossible. job 37 was there ever any such monstruous doctrine taught God abhorreth a double heart which speaketh one thing and thinketh and other. and yet abhor you not to charge God with that which he cannot abide in his creatures that is that he should speak one thing, as that Adam should not have fallen, and think and will the contrary that Adam should have fallen ANSWER. The will of God plainly revealed, in his holy scriptures we do not only follow as a bright lantern shining before us, To the ● for the directing of our paths walking in the darkness of this mortality but also we affirm it to be of such sufficiency, that if an Angel from the heaven with wonders, signs and miracles would declare to us a will repugning to that which is already revealed persuading us upon that, to ground our faith, or by that to rule the actions of our lives, we would hold him accursed, and in no wise to be heard. and therefore yet once again I can not cease to exhort you, if by late revelations ye (I mean some of your faction) hath received any new knowledge of gods will, by the which you persuade others, that man in this life shallbe pure, and clean, with out sin, that God shall expel it, not only in the resurrection, but even while we walk compassed with this corruptible flesh, even as the bright sun chaseth away the dark clouds, that the children of God shall so bear dominion over the wicked in this earth, that all the proud tyrants, and oppressors shall be come slaves to the godly, and that shallbe their hell and punishment, as the earthly reigning of the others, shallbe their heaven and joy promised. Examine I say yourselves, if that any of you be infected with these, and others more gross and foolish fantasies, which by gods revealed will, you be never able to prove. But as for us we have proved and offer to prove at all times by the revealed will of God, what so ever we teach, affirm or believe, To the 2 of gods eternal election, or of his most just reprobation for we confess even the self same thing which you allege us to say, which is that by the word of God we know, that God hath a secret, will whereby he worketh all that pleaseth him in heaven and in earth, and that also he hath revealed unto us so much as is profitable for us to know, either yet necessary for our salvation. for the which we praise his eternal goodness and infinite wisdom & do affirm further (as before we have said) that such as stand not content with that which is revealed, but arrogantly list to mount up to search the secrets of gods counsel, shallbe beaten down again by the brightness of his glory to eternal confusion, in a just recompense of their presumptuous boldness. And thus much with you we will willingly confess. but where upon certain questions, you make such conclusions as pleaseth you, we cannot but accuse in yond that unreverent yea devilish boldness and pride, which in all men we condemn. But let us hear your own words. Can you prove thereby that God hath two wills, or is that which is not revealed contrary to that which is revealed then should there be contrariety in God which is false. if God in respect of his revealed will, would not that Adam should fall but in respect of his secret will he would Adam should fall. Then did God will two contraries which is impossible. These be your words and several reasons most blasphemously spoken, To the 3. 4. 5. not against us but against gods eternal wisdom. against us (I say) ye cannot speak them for no such doctrine have we ever taught, for we most constantly affirm that the secret will of God and his will revealed, is always one, which is the manifestation and declaration of his own glory, although it seem divers in the instruments as before I have most manifestly declared. and thus most justly might I send you to debate your cause with him whose justice, & wisdom cannot be subject to the vanity of your reason. But yet because no small part of this controversy betwixt you & us consisteth in this: that you can admit no will in God the reason and cause whereof, ye cannot see, perceive nor understand, and affirming the contrary say, that of gods secret will, can nether man nor Angel perceive assign, or understand any other reason, or cause, but his holy will only: and therefore with all reverence do they stoop, and covering their eyes, cry just and righteous art thou oh, Lord in all thy works, holy, holy, holy Lord God of armies. The universal earth is replenished with the glory of his Majesty. Esay. ●. Because I say a great part of our controversy standeth in this point, I will go through your questions, and severally answer to every one. first you ask if God have two wills by reason that he hath a secret will and a revealed wil I answer, that as God in his eternal God head is simple and one, so is his will in respect of himself from all beginning simple and one, which is the declaration of his own glory. But because the instruments (in which gods glory is and must be for ever manifested and known) be divers, therefore hath god's will which in himself is one, divers considerations, effects, & ends, in respect of the divers instruments. for example God will the vessels of his mercies to be extolled to the glory of the kingdom with Christ jesus, Mat. 25 but he will the vessels of wrath to be adjudged to the fire inquenchable prepared for the devil & all his Angels. Who doth not see, but in respect of these divers instruments the will of God hath divers respects, and divers ends, and justly may be called two wills or a double will? for it is one will to save, and an other will to condemn, as touching the instruments & creatures saved or condemned. But in respect of God the will is one and simple, which is as before is said the manifestation of his glory, which no less shineth in the just punishment of the one sort, then in the merciful deliverance of the other. And this much for the first. Secondly ye ask, if that which is not revealed be contrary to that which is revealed. To the which I answer as before, that in respect of God there is no contrariety betwixt the will revealed and the will unreveled. But yet may the creatures to whom God, doth notify his will by commandment, rebuke or exhortation, apprehend & understand one thing, and yet it may be that God in his eternal counsel hath determined the express contrary. if this to you at the first sight seem strange, yet my good hope is that examples in the scriptures proposed shall make the matter sensible enough to the godly and sober reader. To 〈◊〉 What do we think that David did apprehend of that most sharp and vehement rebuke given unto him by Nathan then Prophet in the name of God? No doubt that he was the son of death, that God would break the league and covenant with him, as he had done to Saul his predicessor. But was it therefore the eternal purpose of God that so it should be? The end and issue declareth the contrary. Ezechias received the very sentence of present death from the mouth of the Prophet Isaiah, who no doubt came not with message at all adventure, but at the express commandment of God, for so he affirmeth saying: Thus saith the lord put ordre to thy house for thou shalt die and shalt not live. Isa. 38. But was not therefore the contrary (to wit that he should afterward live fifteen years) determined in the immutable counsel of God. The same might I declare by many other exhortations & commandements, but with one I will stand contented, which shall add light to the former. Abraham was commanded by God, to take his son Isaak whom he loved, his only son, in whom the promise stood, and to go to the mountain which God would appoint, & there to offer him in sacrifice. What will of God did Abraham apprehend in this commandment during the journey of three days? God himself beareth record, that Abraham did so understand gods will, that his own hand was stretched out to kill his son, yea that in his heart he had killed him. for so saith the Angel: because thou hast done this, and hast not spared thy only son, I shall bless the. but whether had God in his eternal counsel determined, that Abraham should kill his son, as Abraham did understand by his will revealed? who so ever dare so affirm maketh God subject to mutability, and denieth him to be God, whose wisdom, knowledge, purpose and counsels be stable and appointed from all eternity. if with reverence the causes hereof be searched & inquired, the holy Ghost will answer that good it was to David thus to be humbled. that profitable it was not only to Ezechias, but also to the hole Church of God after him, to come to the knowledge of his infirmity, and of the agony & battle which he sustained, fight as it were against gods judge mentes. That by Abraham's, great obedience, be we all instructed to obey God in all things which he commandeth, and to subject not only our lusts and affections to his will revealed, but also our reason (appear it never so probable.) With the which if we stand not satisfied, but quarrelling with God, will or dare in a blind fury ask, to what purpose commandeth, and speaketh he one thing, & meaneth the contrary? That devilish presumption shall fall down from the clouds, and break down for ever the frantic heads of such vile slaves of proud lucifer. And therefore be ye warned, for vengeance is prepared for all such unreverent reasoners in gods perfect (but yet profound) judgements as ye declare your selves to be, in this which foleweth. If God (say you) in respect of his revealed will, would not that Adam should fall, but in respect of his secret will, he would Adam should fall● then did God will two contraries, which is impossible. Answer. Impossible we confess it to be that contrariety should be in that will, which in itself is simple and one. But how shall you be able to prove that God in reveling his will to Adam, had none other purpose nor will but only that Adam, should not fall? (because say you) he said thou shalt not eat, I answer, & so said he to Abraham thou shalt take and offer thy son in sacrifice. And yet we know that the contrary had he determined. O (cry you) God abhorreth a double heart which speaketh one thing and thinketh an other, To the 5 and yet ye abhor nes to charge God with that which he can not abide in his creatures, that is that he should speak one thing, as that Adam should not offend, & will the cotrarie, as that Adam should offend. Answer, God if his good pleasure be, towch your hearts with such unfeigned repentance that you may understand how horrible be these blasphemies, which thus in your furious blindness you spew forth against gods supreme Majesty, for before I have said they are not spoken against us. for no such doctrine do we teach nor affirm, as that of which you gather these blasphemies, and albeit we did, yet it were as easy for us to dissolve and unlouse such devilish knots, as by instruction of your father, you knit to trip the souls of the simple, & as it is for the foot of the valiant & strong man to burst a sondre the spiders webs which the venomous spider maketh to catch the impotent flies and feeble gnats. And now left that you should glory as though your reasons yet stood sure. Let us try and examine every member apart. God abhorreth (say you) a double heart which speaketh one thing and thinketh an other, I answer: That as God is a spirit and hath neither heart nor body like as man hath, so must not his words, cogitations, and thoughts be compared to ours: for as we be corrupt liars and vain, so where we do speak one thing, and think an other, we do mean deceit, fraud, and destruction to our brother, to whom we promise truth, fidelity, & conservation to our power. But God according to the purity and perfection of his godly nature in speaking to his creatures, and in creating of them must not absolutely have respect to them, but also to his own glory. for what reason is it that God of nothing shall make that creature by whom his glory shall not be manifested? and therefore in speaking to Adam, and in giving a law to him, God had respect to his eternal counsel & purpose, as before we have spoken, and hereafter shall rehears. But still cry you, that yet we burden God with that which he cannot abide in his creatures that is, that he should speak one thing, as that Adam should not have fallen, and that he meant the contrary. for answer I ask of you, if ye will bind God to that law which he hath imposed to his creatures? And if ye will leave none other liberty to God his sovereign majesty, than his law hath permitted to men subject to the same: and if ye dare promise to yourselves that authority over God, gird your loins, and play the strong champions: prepare your seats, appoint your judges, cite, and adjourn him to appear at a fixed day, to rendre a reason, The adversaries judge of god's majesty according to their blind reas●n. & a make an account before you of his universal regiment, in which (no doubt) ye shall find many things more repugnant to your reason then this. You think I mock you in that I will you to cite and call God to an account, in very deed I do. for as your blasphemy & pride is utterly to be abhorred, so is your vanity more worthy to be mocked, than your simplicity in that case to be instructed. for what was he ever yet amongst the most ignorant ethnics so foolish or so presumptuous, but that he did confess that the works and wonders of the supreme God, were exempted from all law, and censure of man's judgement. But in your presence, God shall have no liberty to command, or forbidden any thing to any of his creatures, but that he must needs absolutely will the same, and for no cause or respect may he will the contrary, but that he shall have a double heart, he shallbe a dissembler (cursed be your blasphemy that causeth me thus to write) and in him there shallbe contrariety. this is the reverence which ye bear to gods infinite wisdom in all his works, to the ground whereof ye can not attain by your corrupt reason, that you burst forth in scoffing, mocking, and blasphemy. But yet to come more nigh to the matter, I deny that justly you can conclude any contrariety to be in God, albeit that to Adam he said thou shall not eat, and yet in his eternal counsel he had determined that Adam should eat, neither yet (I say) can you be able to prove, that he spoke one thing & willed the contrary, because he pronounced this sentence: in what so ever day thou shalt eat of this tree, thou shalt die the death, but rather we may most assuredly conclude, that both the precept, & the penalty threatened to ensue the violation of it, was a plain and manifest declaration what before was concluded in gods eternal counsel, as also that they were the means, by the which the secret will and good purpose of God took effect amongst men & was notified unto the world. for if God had not before appointed the fall and the remedy for the same, he had not imposed upon him a law, the transgression whereof, should bring death, but should have suffered him to live without such fear and bondage, as we shall do when victory shallbe given over death, which is the sting of sin, & over sin also which had his power by the law. And therefore I say that god's commandment forbidding Adam to eat, and the punishment of death denounced, if he did eat, were nothing contrary to his secret will: but were the very ways appointed by his infinite wisdom, by the which he had determined that his secret will concerning the mystery of man's redemption should be notified & put in execution. And albeit that such as in gods eternal election find no sweetness nor comfort, fret, fume, storm, and rage at the only mention of it: yet neither dare we nor can we conceal and suppress gods eternal truth, infinite love, and incomprehensible liberality towards us: neither eshame we to confess our own wretched poverty, and just condemnation, into the which our father Adam willingly wrapped himself and us. And therefore we constantly affirm that as we were elected in Christ jesus before all times, so it behoved us in time to fall in Adam, to the end that the bright glory of God, might after shine & appear before men & Angels. Prove now if you can contrariety betwixt gods will revealed, & his secret will. How vain is the difference, which you put between his will & his permission we shall shortly examine in this which followeth. THE ADVERSARY. The reason where with you go about to persuade this to be of truth is very mean, The 1▪ argument. if a man (say you) could do any thing contrary to gods will, than were not God omnipotent, 38. Section. wherefore what so ever is done, it must needs be done by the will of God, whose will no man ca● resist. I answer that God is goodness itself, his will is always good, yet man apt to do & may do evil contrary to gods will, no● withstanding God remaineth omnipotent, suffering m●n to do evil whom he might destroy before he did the evil, if so it pleased him. Pharao obstinately refused to obey the will of God, yet was God omnipotent, for if God had list he might have destroyed Phara● at the first, and the arrogant tyrān● was well worthy to be destroyed, yet God used towards him, by little and little such increase of punishment as he might therewith have been amended had not his malice been and impediment. Christ as he witnesseth him self w●ld have gathered the Ier●solim●tans together, as the hem her chickens, yet w●ld they not, God would that the Israelites should entre into the land of Canaā and they would not, wherefore they were carried back again through the wilderness where they perished. Again when God would not that they should entre, they would needs entre, and were put to flight of the Canaanites. Thus we see plainly that many things be done contrary to the will of God, which shallbe more largely declared hereafter, where we shall show how God often suffered many things which he would not yet to maintain this untruth ye allege that which is written in Exodus th● 9 the Lord hardened the heart of Pharao. To the which I answer that which is written all most in the end of the same chapter, Phara● hardened his heart, he and his servants: and that which is written in the chapter of ●he first b●ke of the kings. wherefore should you harden your hearts as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts. by these places I may prou● 〈◊〉 well that Pharaoh hardened his ow●e heart, as you can prove, that God m●de him hard he arted, by that other text▪ wherefore t● understand how these places do aggr●, we must note first, that all the children of Adam have a hard & wicked heart, jere. 17. until they be mollified by the grace of God, as I●remie witnesseth saying: Amongst all things liu●●● not, man hath the most deceafull & stubborn heart & the lord saith that he will take the stony heart from them, Eze. 36. and gi●● them a heart of flesh▪ without they had a stone heart, he could not take it 〈◊〉 them If Phara● had a stony heart, as it doth well appear, in that he 〈◊〉 oppressed the people, afore Moses spoke unto him, then could it not be hardened more than a stone, afore it had been millified, which was not done. for he refused to know the Lord, & se● n●t his heart to gods miracles, but at the first meeting with Moses said, I know not the Lord▪ therefore Pharaoh willingly & wittingly, did endure & retain his hard sti●e heart, notwithstanding he and his sorcerers were convict to grant the miracles to be done by God, in so much that he desired Moses & Aaro to pray for him, confessing his office▪ but yet after that he was delivered from the present plague, he endured his heart both he and his s●rua●s so tha● as the Apostle saith, when they known God they glorified him not as God, neither were they thankful, wherefore they were left to their own lewd minds which is the cause of hardening▪ for man being left of God, is nothing else, but a hard obstinate wicked creature, and conform to this meaning do the ancient doctors interpret this place, God hardened pharao's heart, that is to say, God suffered pharao's heart to be hardened, as this, lead us not into tomp tation▪ job ●9. that is suffer us not to be led into remptation. So job saith▪ God hath take●● wis●dim from the Estriche, that is as it 〈◊〉 there God hath not● given her understanding. And of his friends job saith. Thou hast withheld their hearts from understanding that is thou hast not given them understanding: Ilb 17. And thus manner of speaking is common in the scriptures not only of God, but also of man as these, I●sue, 22 now you have ●idd the children of Israel out of the hand of the Lord, that is you have not caused th● to 〈◊〉 in●● the hand of the lord. The phrase of the scripture being this truly understanded▪ the ma●er shallbe the easier for seeing that God (as james sayeth) 〈◊〉 no man▪ that is to si●ne, then did God neither harden the heart of Pharaoh, not 〈◊〉 him to do wickedly, but suffered him & gave him over to the obstinate hard heart which he had already and this is the greatest plague that chanced to man, to be●est to his own lewd mind as Saul because hem would not obey the Lord, he was le●t of gods good spirit & taken with an evil spirit, & then from thence forth he became worse. and w●rse likwyes I●as king of juda, because he would not hear ●he voice of Zachari● the Prophet he was lest of God, slain in his own bed with his own servants & found unworthy to be buried in the sepul●hars of the kings. & his son Amasias, because be refused to hear the Prophet of the lord, and sought counsel of the Ed●mites gods, he as l●●e of God, over come by the king of Israel, & afterwards by treason, his subjects conspired against him & killed him. Thus we see that there can be 〈◊〉 gre●ter plague, then to beleft to our selves & to be destitute of the grace of God. A● the earth can be ●o more gryveously punished, than to lack the sun & dew. So the lord doth punish his vineyard not wasting 〈◊〉 himself▪ but taketh the hedge and rain from it▪ & suffereth it to be was●ed and overtrod by others, Esa. 5. So job was plagued of God only by suffering him to be plagued notwithstanding job sayeth, the Lord hath given and the Lord hath taken, which is not to be understand that the Lord did take his goods, but o●ely, suffere● the devil to take them. So the Lord punished his people, not that he touched them, but I will hide, my face from them & will see what their end shallbe saith the Lord. After the same manner ought that place, God hardened the heart of Pharaoh 〈◊〉 be understand, that it God suffered the heart of Phara● to be hardened, or left him in the hardness of his heart, which appeareth to be so of that wh●ch is wri●ten. Exo●●●e 10. chapter, how long refusest thou to submit thyself unto me, to let my people go? by this we see, that the will of God was, that Pharaoh should let the people g●o. Secondly that Pharaoh ●id not subrnit himself to God, that his ●ind was not conform to god's mind. Thirdly▪ in that he refused to let the people go, it was his own deed and acts & not gods for if I should gra●t, that it was gods will, that he should r●fuse to let the people go, than did h● subr●yt himself to ●he will of the Lord, which is contrary to the word, them should God and he have been both of one mind, And the will of God is all ways good and just▪ wh●ch you can not deny then Phara● refusing to let the people go. did well & ●ustly, forasmuch▪ as it was gods will he should so do●, wherefore Pharaoh ought not t● be punished for this good & just deed. These & such like 〈…〉 escape, affirming pharao's heart to have been actually endured of God. ANSWER. How mean that ever our reasons be, yet great cause we have to give thanks unto God, that ye in labouring with all your wits to oppugn & obscure them, are yet compelled by the invincible grace of god's mercy to justify and illustrate the same. which shall plainly appear by this your first answer, which you make concerning the omnipotency of God. forasmuch (say you) as God is goodness itself, his will is alawayes good, yet man is apt to do, and may do evil, contrary to gods will, notwithstanding God remaineth omnipotent suffering man to do evil, whom he might destroy afore he did evil, if so pleased him: and so ye bring forth the example of Pharaoh. I will not take in all points that advantage of you which I think you would take of us most gladly, if you had us in such a straight as you have here concluded yourselves. for if man may do evil contrary to gods will: so that God for no respect, for no end nor purpose would that such wickedness should be done (for thus you must apply your words, or else ye say nothing against us) and yet that it pleaseth God not to destroy the wicked doer, but to suffer him to do evil, whom he might have destroyed before the iniquity committed. What shall, I pray you ensue? but that either there shallbe in God two contrary wills, one that willeth no wickedness in no wyes to be done, and an other that suffereth wickedness, yea and that is pleased to suffer & not to destroy the wicked mā● or else that there is a power above gods will, which compelleth him to suffer that which he would not: one of these two can you not avoid. But I will dealle more favourably with you. Ye grant that God suffereth the evil, To the 1. & 2. and that he might destroy the wicked man before iniquity be committed, if so pleased his godly majesty and wisdom. Do ye not consider that in this your confession, is no les contained than any of us hath either written or spoken in this matter. for if god's omnipotency remaineth as no doubt it doth, so perfect and hole that he may not impede only wicked men of their enterprises, but also that he may destroy even Satan himself, if so pleased his eternal wisdom, what can be concluded, but that God willingly for causes known to his wisdom alone, permitteth & suffereth things to be done which after he will most justly punish? And thus (I say) doth you own answer & confession justify our doctrine. for we do not teach that wickedness pleaseth God, in so far as it is wickedness: neither yet that God will sinful acts to be done, in so far as they are sinful, without any other further respect. But we say that as the actions & cogitations of the godly please God in Christ jesus, because they are wrought and inspired by the power of his holy spirit: so that the good works, as patience, justice, chastity, & such like, God will to be done, even because the works be good & agreeable to his own nature: so say we that God will, yea and hath determined the works that be most wicked to be done for the purposes & causes concluded in his eternal counsel. Which thing if we be able to prove by the evident scriptures of God then ought you not to be offended although we prefer God to man, and his plain truth, to your sophistical evasions & cold interpretations of such places. for the avoiding the prolixity of many, I will choose but two at the most, plain and most evident. Is it not a great & horrible sin that a falls prophet shall come and deceause the people? Yea is it not likwyes sin, to deceive the Prophet? and yet God feareth not to attribute to himself both the one and the other. for no false prophet doth arise, whom God for one of two purposes doth not stir up, to wit, either to try and examine the constancy & fidelity of his servants, or else, to execute and blind those, who delight not in the verity. For Moses witnesseth in these words, if in the midst of thee, there arise a Prophet, and he shall give unto the a sign, and yet should say let us go and serve strange gods hear him not, for the Lord your God tempteth you, whether that ye will love your Lord, your God with all your heart, & in all your fowl. if it be the proper office of God to try, tempt and examine the hearts of his people & of his chosen children as the holy Ghost affirmeth it to be. Then must you confess that the false prophets be gods instruments appointed for that purpose. And that God deceiveth the false Prophet, Ezechiel in plain words doth witness saying, and if the Prophet deceived speak the word, I the Lord have deceived that Prophet, Eze. 14 and I will extend my hand against him and I will root him out from the midst of my people Israel. And the same doth yet God him self more plainly vindicate to himself in that solemned proclamation made in the ears of the prophet Micheas and boldly by him pronounced in audience of two kings Achas & josaphat, 3. Reg. 22. as followeth: who shall deceive Achas to us? or who shall persuade him that he may pass up, and fall in Ramath galaad, and there passed out a certain spirit & standing before the lord he said I shall deceive or persuade him. And the lord said whereunto? & he said I shall pass out & be alieng Prophet in the mouths of all his Prophets: he said therefore thou shall deceive him & thou shalt br●g it to pass: go forth therefore & do even so. And lo God hath given a lying spirit in the mouths of all these Prophets & the lord hath spoken evil upon the. If to make a public proclamation to call for one to deceive, to send him forth & to give him power to do the same. be only a simple permission, & a thing which God suffereth against his will, let the indifferent man judge. I think that no man will deny the incest of Absalome openly committed, not only to be sin, but also to be so execrable & detestable a fact that nature itself (be it never so corrupt) must needs abhor it and yet I pray you what saith God that he will do in that be half, let the Prophet witness. Thus sayeth the Lord God (saith Nathan) behold I shall raise evil against thee, forth of thine own house, and I shall take thy wives and give them to thy neighbour, who shall sleep with them in the sun. Thou did est that fact secretly but I shall do this thing openly before all Israel, let the vehemency of the words which hear be spoken, be noted & be judges yourselves whether your interpretation be tolerable, he saith not I shall suffer evil to come upon thee, but plainly he saith I shall raise up evil against the. And therewith not content, he saith I shall take thy wives, and to put the matter out of all controversy he addeth, and I shall give them to thy neighbour yea and that will I do openly. If to raise up, to give, & to do, be to permit only the thing which he will not, we must confess ourselves ignorant of the phrases of the holy Gost. this same might I prove by job, by Nabuchadnezer, by Salmanasar, by Syrus and divers others which for brevities saik I pass over. one I will recite which I trust shallbe so plain that the devil himself by no subtility shallbe able to obscure the light of the truth. Was there ever any fact since the beginning more wicked, if the instruments shallbe considered, as was the cruel and ignominious death of the Son of God? And yet what doth the holy Ghost attribute to God in that case? him saith Peter (being crucified) did you kill after that you had taken him by the hands of the wicked men being given by the appointed counsel & fore knowledge of God. Act. 2. And after, Act. 4. they have verily convened against thy holy Son jesus, whom, thou hast anointed, Herode together & Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles together & the people of Israel to do what so ever thy hand & thy counsel have decreed to be done. Advise well what ye will answer, the words are plain, & so plain that you can not avoid the. for he that sayeth the wicked men did what so ever God did foresee & before dotermined, yea what his hand▪ that is his power, and counsel, that he had before decreed to be done, meaneth a thing of more greater importance than he that saith they did what God permitted and suffered to be done. Consider further that you have not to do with men, as with Augustine, Caluine and us whom you call careless libertines, but which the holy Ghost speaking in Peter & in the hole Church of jerusalem, yea speaking in the hole scripptures. for if not to spare his Son, but to give him to the death for us, to cause our sins to make war against him, to punish him for the same, in such sort that of all men he was most contemptible for a season. if I say to give to death to strike, to wound & punish, be actions, than did not God only suffer his Son to die to be wounded to be smitten & to be punished without any will, that any such thing should come to pass, but he in his eternal counsel appointed the time, the place & the persons, when, where, and by whom he should suffer the same. for of love he gave him to suffer the true death: that we by him might receive life. the time could not be changed & the cup which the father had given him he must needs drink, as in the figures was foreshad owed and by his own people, and gentiles, as the Prophets, and David, had before spoken. If in god's counsel gods gift, god's hand, and eternal purpose, before decreinge all things to come to pass, in the death of his Son, ye can see nothing, but a bare & simple permission, I can not cease to affirm, that as by falsifying such plain scriptures, you labour to take from the Church of God their most singular comfort left to us in Christ's death, so do you walk in darkness, & in y● same ye shall perish except speedily you repent. How one, & the same work, in so far as it proceedeth from God, is most just, most profitable & most merciful: and yet as it proceedeth from the instruments most profane most wicked, damnable to themselves, & most cruel, I have abundantly declared, and after as occasion shallbe offered, shall touch by god's grace, so much as may instruct the sober mind, if it be ignorant: and also to put silence to your venomous mouths, be they never so impudent. Because the scriptures which you heap together be either plainly repugning to your error, or else make nothing for probation of the same, I will so shortly as I can go through them, only noting wherein you abuse the words and mind of the holy Gost. To the ● The words of our master spoken in the 24, chapter of Mathewes Gospel serve nothing for your purpose. for in that place our Saviour Christ jesus speaketh as he that is the messenger of his heavenly father, and declareth that the jews obstinately even from their original had resisted God speaking by his patriarchs, prophets of old, & now last by his Son. he neither speaketh nor meaneth what will, God had to save his elect, neither yet that will which he had to gather & separate them from v● world, but only (as Moses and Elias had before spoke) declareth what fidelity & diligence God had used in the general election & vocation of that people, from time to time: and yet what had been their obstinate rebellion & unthankful defection from him: by the which they killed the Prophets, and should kill his Son sent of God to call them from iniquity. What hath this to do I say with that will, by the which God, in his eternal counsel hath made division, betwixt the elect & the reprobate? If ye dare say that Christ in that place meaneth, in that he would have gathered those murderers, and sons of murderers as he doth witness, he doth gather his chosen flock, himself will convict you of a lie. for he affirmeth the same to the scribes & pharisees, to whom principally he spoke, in that place that they were not of his sheep & that therefore they could not be gathered to his fold, that they were not of God, & therefore that they could not hear his voice, that he did not pray for the world, and therefore they could never be united to God. You must declare how that God would that those Israelites whose carcases fell in the wilderness should entre into the land promised. If you say by any other will than by his general precept given, that they should go & possess it, ●e shall lack the testimony of the holy Gost. I have declared causes most just and most sufficient why God shall command, that which is just right & laudable, albeit that man neither can perform his commandements: neither yet that it was gods eternal will & counsel that all men should so do. And further I have declared just causes, why God doth call many to repentance and felicity, and yet that he chooseth a certain to attain thereto & entre the same. And so I say ye must prove that God did other ways will, them to enter into the land, them by his general commandment, before you be able to prove that any thing is done against the eternal and immutable will of God. I can prove that gods will was so plain revealed that none of them should entre into the land promised, that it behoved the hole army to be received from place to place till they were all consumed. Yea further I can prove that Moses himself could not obtain that privilege to enter in nor the people, albeit that in prayer most earnestly he required the same▪ prove if you can, that ever God revealed his will to any particular persons (josua & Caleb only excepted) that they should entre in it. And then may you say that either God did change his will & purpose, or else that some thing was done against his will, To the 4. 5. 6 & 7. which he did permit, but not will. I will answer there is no better argument to prove that God hardened the heart of Pharaoh, then that same which you adduce to prove that Pharaoh did harden his own heart, and that God doth suffer it to be hardened, but doth not will it. This ye writ. All the children of Adam have a hard and wicked hear●● until they be mollified by the grace of God as leremis witnesseth saying. Jere▪ 47. Amongst all things living man hath the most deceitful & stubb●rne heart●▪ your liberty or ignorance in citing the prophets words pass measure, Eze●. 36 And the Lord saith that he will take away the stony heart from them, and give them a heart of fl●sh. no stronger argument nor reason I require to confute your error then the same, which you allege for the establishment thereof for if by nature all be equal, and that only grace maketh the difference, than we demand & ask whether that grace be given to some, and denied to others & that by permission & sufferance, as you speak, or if it be the determined will of God that his grace and mercy by Christ jesus shallbe freely communicated with some, and that the same shall most justly be denied to others, albeit the causes to us do not appear, during the time of this our martalitie. If you dare say that gods will in taking away the stony heart and in giving the fleshy heart, be nothing else but only a permission & sufferance without the operation and will of his Spirit, then may you reason that in the hardening of Pharaoh and of the rest of the reprobat there is nothing else but a bare permission without any efficacy of god's spirit. But if it be God that worketh in us the good will and performance of the same, and that he hath mercy upon whom he listeth. them is it likwies, that God hardeneth whom he will. Mark & note the words of the Apostle: He saith not, he hardeneth whom he permitteth and doth suffer to be hardened, but palinely he saith that he hardeneth whom he will. The Apostle saw none other cause why mercy was showed to some and others were left in indurations, but gods will. true it is that the reprobat of nature have and from their mother's womb doth tarry with them, the matter of their induration. But the question is. What is the cause, that that pestilent matter is removed from some, and why? doth it remain with others? If you answer because some receive grace offered, and some refuse it. Ye have said nothing, as more plainly I have before declared▪ for always we ask the cause why is the will of the one obedient to God, and why is the will of the other rebellious, considering that all by nature are equal. Although that you travel to confound the heaven and the earth yet shall ye be brought to this principal: that God hath mercy upon whom he will, and whom he will he maketh hard hearted. And therefore as of his mercy and free grace, God worketh willingly in the one with his Spirit, softness, & the feeling of mercy, so doth his just judgements, & just wrath against sin couceaved by the spirit of sathan, work in the others hardness obstinacy, & the sense of his wrath. You reason affirming that Pharaoh had a stony heart before that Moses spoke unto him, then could not it be heardened more than a stone afore that it was mollified▪ this your reason I say is more than foolish▪ for I suppose that you be not so brutish, that you will affirm that the heart of any tyrant at any time, in natural hardness I mean to grope & feel, is comperable to the hardness of a stone, but that is a figurative speech by the with is declared the unchangeable hardness of man's heart as touching the natural power of the same. foras the stone by itself can never come to any softness of flesh, so can never man by any gift, which nature hath of itself, come to that humility and obedience, which is acceptable before God. But doth it thereof ensue that one man is not, nor can not be more cruel than an other, yea that one and the same may not proceed from evil to worse, and by contempt of grace, make himself more hard and more hard: although his heart was never fully mollified. I think you will not affirm the contrary. for the holy Ghost giving this exhortation: This day if you hear his voice harden not your hearts, Psal. 95 doth confirm my affirmation, which is, that men proceed from hardness to hardness, yea from one sin to an other, till their sins be become inexcusable, and so finally irremissible, because that obstinately they refuse grace offered. as Christ doth witness in these words, if I had not come, and spoken unto them, they should not have sin, but now have they nothing to cloak their sin, for they have seen, and hated not only me, but also my father. No man willbe so fond, as to affirm, that the jews before Christ's preaching and miracles, were clean without sin: but the contempt of grace did so augment and increase their sin, that it became inexcusable. even so say I that Pharaoh did harden his own heart from time to time becoming more unthankful unto God and more cruel to his people. And the fountain of this induration and hardness I confess to have been borne with him, and that to rage against god's people he needed no impulsion of god's part, but rather a bridle to impede his fury. But yet the question is not resolved as before I have noted. for still we ask why was not that fountein shut up? why was not the natural venom purged and his heart mollified? search where you list, ye shall find none other reason nor cause, for the which the subsequent induration of Pharaoh did principally proceed but that God in his eternal counsel for causes known to his wisdom alone had most justly denied to communicate his graces effectually with him, but had raised him up to have his power showed forth in him. And so God did harden pharao's heart, not by permission only but willingly withdrew his Spirit from him as before is said. To the 8. 9 10 Wonder it is that amongst the ancient doctors ye will seek patrociny or defence in this matter: seeing it is a statute amongst you, that ye will believe nor admit the words nor authority of no writer, in any matter of con troversie, but all things you will have decided by the plain scripture. And truly I am not contrary to your mind in that case, so that you understand, that ye will not admit the authority of man against gods plain truth, nether yet that you will believe man any furtherthen that he proveth his sentence by gods evident scriptures. If you had produced any doctor who had confirmed his interpretation by the plain word of God, of reason, I ought to have answered, either by the same, or by some other doctor of equal authority, or else to have improved his interpretation by the plain scriptures. but seeing that ye produce none, ye leave me at greater liberty. and yet I will show you the mind of one doctor comparable to any that ever wrote before him, either in the latin or in the greek Church, I mean of Augustine, Lib. 3. contra lul. ca 5 who writing against julian the appostate, and against Manacheus who did affirm the self same thing that you do, to wit that God was a passive God, that is, he did suffer all evil, and that against his will, but he did work none. Against him (I say) he thus writeth: wilt thou say (saith Augustine to julian) that the wicked that be given over to their own desires, are to be understand only left by gods suffering, but not compelled to sins by power, as though that the Apostle had not joined the suffering and power of God together, where that he saith: if God willing to show wrath, and to declare his power, fuffered in great patience the vessels of wrath prepared to destruction, which of these two sayest thou, is written? And also, if the prophet do err and shall speak, I the lord have deceived him, is this suffering or is it power? And after adducing the same which we before have alleged of Achas he addeth, did God these things ignorantly, or doth he any thing, judging or doing rashly or unjustly? God forbidden. it is not without cause that it is said: Thy judgements are a great depth it is not vain that the Apostle crieth out: Oh the hieght a●d deepness of gods judgements. And after in the same place expounding these words: & lead us not into temptation, after that he hath affirmed that God giveth over some for just causes to their own lusts and blindness as he gave over Roboam to believe, the falls and foolish counsel of the young men (he saith) all these things doth God work by wondrous and unspeakable means, who knoweth how to work his just judgements, not only in the bodies, but also in the hearts of men, he who maketh not the wills evil, but yet he useth them as he will, seeing that he can will nothing unjustly. Thus far have I alleged unto you the m●nd of one doctor in this our controversy▪ when ●e shall bring forth the mind of any so well grounded upon scriptures as he doth this his sentence▪ I promise to answer if I can. I am not ignorant that divers of the doctors (yea and Augustine himself) in some places may seem to favour your opinion at the first sight. But if their words in one place be compared with their plain mind and with the scope of their disputation in other places, it shall plainly appear that none that live this day do more plainly speak against your error, than some of them have written. The places of job manifestly and in plain words, Ilb 39 fight against you. Ilb 17 for it is said in the one place thou hast excluded their heart from wisdom, and therefore this matter shall not be to their praise. and in the other: God hath taken wisdom from the Ostrich, and hath not given understanding unto her, dare you affirm that in these words, there is nothing but a bare permission of god's part? is there no difference betwixt away taking and suffering to be taken away. if any difference be betwixt these two manner of speakings, God giveth wisdom and God taketh away wisdom, then is your interpretation foolish and absurd, nether yet is there any phrase of scripture, understand it as you please, that can make God to call back that sentence which he hath pronounced, To the 10 to wit that he hath raised up Pharaoh to be an example to all generations following, what shall be the end of those that obstinately resist God. Who albeit he tempt no man to sin by the power of his spirit yet as before I have proved, he justly giveth them over to the inordinate lusts of their own corruption yea he giveth them over into the hands & power of sathan to be pricked and stirred forward to all iniquity that their damnation may be just, and also that his vengeance justly deserved may the more suddenly fall upon them. The mind of saint james is only to bring men to the right examination and trial of themselves lest that by flattery they begin to seek the original cause of their sin in an other, then in themselves. And yet doth that nothing impede, but that God in his manner (which always is just) doth harden the hearts of those whom before he had reprobated. To the 11. 12. 13 14. 15 We confess that no greater plague can chance unto man▪ then that he be left to his own lewd mind▪ for them of him can proceed no good nor permanent fruit. But as the earth lacking rain dew and moisture must needs be barren, and so at length subject to malediction, so must men destitute of god's grace, with Saul, Achab, & others proceed from evil to worse, till finally they come to confusion. But were it not that it is your common custom to bely the holy Ghost, I would wonder how that you could be so impudent, as to affirm, that the lord doth punish his vinyeard, not waisting it himself, but taketh the hedge and rain from it and suffereth it to be wasted and trodden of others. And that job was plagued of God only in suffering him to be plagued. Assuredly this your affirmation declareth in you either a most brutal ignorance or else an impudency more than manifest. Ye will not deny that Israel & juda were the pleasant vineyard sometimes planted by gods own hand: So doth he himself affirm, Isa. 5 and doth God no more in their destruction but only look upon them as an idle and unwilling sufferer upon the tragedy and miserable calamity? he himself doth witness the contrary. for he saith I will plainly declare unto you what I will do to my vineyard, I shall take away the hedge of it. I shall break down the wall that it may be trodden upon, I shall make it waste and shall also so forbidden the clouds that they shall neither send down rain nor moistur upon it. Note and mark well I beseech you, god here speaketh nothing of permission, but all together of working, to wit of taking away and of breaking down. And how I pray you came that fearful destruction to pass? the lord God of hosts (saith the Prophet Isaiah) will take away from jerusalem and from judath the stay and the strength, Isa. 3 even all the stay of bread, and all the stay of water, the strong man and the man of war the judge and the Prophet, the prudent and the aged, the captain of fifty and the honourable and the counsellor, and the cunning artificer, and the eloquent man, and I will appoint children (note well what God speaketh) to be their pinces and babes shall rule over them etc. And after the Lord shall bring upon thee, upon thy people and upon thy father's house the days that have not come from the day that Ephraim departed from juda, even the king of ashur etc. Isa. 7 In that day shall the Lord shave the with a rafer that is hired etc. The Lord himself doth further conferee, Isa. 10 that the king of ashur is the rod of his fury and the axe in his hand, he sayeth to an hypocritical nation will he send him: and I give him commandment against that people which hath, deserved my indignation I will give him charge to take away, to rive and to part the spoil. And further in the same place God doth acknowledged the grievous punishment and miserable destruction of jerusalem to be his own work. for thus speaketh the Prophet: But when the Lord hath accomplished all his work upon mount Zion and jerusalem, I will visit the fruit of the proud heart of the king of ashur, and his glorious and proud looks etc. If these words may be attributed to him, who only suffereth and doth not himself effectual work, let indifferent m●n judge. And yet speaking more plainly he saith: I am the lord and there is none other, Isa. 45 I form the light and create darkness: I make peace and create evil (that is punishment and plagues for sin) I the eternal do all these things▪ Am os to whom the Prophet Amos doth agree using these same words: or shall there be evil in a city (sayeth he) and the lord hath not done it? The lord speaking by his Prophets jeremy and Ezechiel saith: I shall send, and take all the nations of the north, and Nabuchadnezer my servant the king of Babylon, jere. 25 and I shall bring them upon this land: I shall kindle the fire, augment and multiply the flame, Ezec. ●4 and I shall profane (that is I shall make common) my Sanctuary. If he that gathereth his warriors, that leadeth, and conducteth them, yea that giveth them strength agility and good success, that putteth the sword of his vengeance into their hand, that commandeth them to strike, and to spare none, doth nothing else but suffer, I must confess myself nether to know nor to understand what it is to do, or what it is to work. Your bold impudency affirming, that job was plagued of God, only by suffering him to be plagued, is intolerable. Doth not God provoke as it were sathan to try his servant job? saying hast thou not considered my servant job, job 1 how none is like unto him in the earth, an upright and just man, one that feareth God and escheweth evil. And after that sathan, upon that occasion had defaced the integrity and justice of job, affirming▪ that easy it was to fear and serve God, seeing that all things were prosperous and fortunate in his house and family. God first by express words giveth to him power over all that pertained unto him: and thereafter he giveth over the body of job to the tyranny of sathan, his life only being reserved. Was this I pray you only, to plague job, by suffering him to be plagued? Doth the father which commandeth his child to be beaten in his presence, and commandeth how many stripes he shall receive, nothing else but suffer his child to be beaten? or is he not rather the chief cause, as that he is the chief commander why his child is punished? O say you but God did not take his goods, To the 13 but only suffered the devil to take them, and so God did not punish his people. for he touched them not, but hide his face from them, to see their end. Albeit your vanity trouble me a little, yet must it needs return upon your own heads to your shame. This is a good reasonly, God by himself took not jobs goods from him, therefore he did nothing but suffer them to be taken: and gods own hand did not touch Israel nor juda, therefore was he but only a sufferer, and no worker of their punishment. I will make the like reason and argument. God by himself gave no goods to job, therefore did he nothing but suffer job to be enriched. An other, no visible hand was seen to touch Elimas the sorcerer, Act. 13 therefore did God only suffer him to be blinded. If ye will affirm the former, to wit, that God did nothing but suffer job to be enriched: not only shall job himself testify against you, but even sathan, although he be a liar, and the father of lies: yet in that case shall he convince you of a most impudent lie. for he sayeth: Hast thou not made an hedge about him, and about his house and a bout all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. But stretch out now thy hand and touch all that he hath to see if he will not blaspheme the to thy face. And if ye will say that God did only suffer Elimas to be blinded: then shall the holy Ghost speaking in saint Paul convict you. for he saith behold the hand of the Lord is upon the and thou shalt be blind and shall not see the Sun for a tyme. And thus shall you have God, man, and the devil to rebuke your vanity. Be ashamed, repent, and give glory unto God, who feareth not to confess that all instruments in heaven earth or in hell, be his rods, his sword, and his hand, by the which he correcteth, he punisheth, he triethe, delivereth, and saveth according to his eternal counsel and purpose. To the 16 To prove absurdities and inconveniences (as ye term them) to follow our doctrine: thus you reason: If I should grant that it was gods will that he should refuse, to let the people go, than did he submit himself to the will of the Lord. then, should God and he have been both of one mind. and the will of God is always good and just. then Pharaoh refusing to let the people go, did well and justly, forasmuch as it was gods will that he should so do. wherefore Pharaoh ought not to have been punished for this good and just deed. And thus in conclusion, ye affirm that these inconveniences we can not escape. I have before sufficiently declared how that no wicked man committing iniquity hath any respect or mind to obey gods holy will, either secret, either yet revealed, but following their own rage and inordinate, lusts doth make as it were plain resistance to God. and, therefore, how so ever they be compelled to to serve gods eternal purpose: yet do they never obey him in their own hearts: but obstinately they do rebel against his blessed will revealed. And therefore, as there is no conformity nor aggrement betwixt the holy will of God, & their perverse & malicious will, so are they subject to just damnation, for their rebellion and disobedience. And thus taking from you the ground & foundation where upon you think yourselves most assuredly to stand, I might suffer your vain building to fall into confusion But partly for the instruction of the simple reader, and partly to won some of you (if so please God) from these horrible blasphemies, I purpose in this place to declare the difference betwixt the holy will of God, and the wicked will of men, and why it is, that the work of God is most just, and the work of the instruments, unjust, and evil, reserving the rest to better opportunity. The will of God must not be restrained to those things which externally we see done or hear to have been done. The cause and ends of things that be wrought. But gods will must be extended to to those ends, for the which God worketh, and causeth to be wrought, all things from the beginning to wit, for the manifestation of his own glory, for the profit and salvation of his elect children, and for the execution of his just judgements, either for a time to correct his chosen, or else for ever to punish the stubborn and disobedient, of the reprohate sort. Because that I suspect no man so foolish as that he will deny the will of God working to these ends to be most just most holy, and most perfect in itself: I will labour for no probation of that part. But because the instruments by whom God worketh, Who obey God, who obey not God. be divers, we must first inquire and know what instruments they be that obey gods will, and therefore by him are reputed just workers, and what they are that obey not his will, and so what so ever they do, are reputed inobediente. Only those instruments do obey gods will, who having his will clearly revealed unto them, do study and endeavour themselves to obey, accomplish, and fulfil the same, and that of very love, free mind, and zeal to obey his godly Majesty. the fruits and works of these instruments, how soever man doth judge of them, doth God approve, yea even albeit they appear to repugn to mercy, or to his law written. for the Israelites were delivered from theft by gods will revealed: albeit they spoiled and rob (under the cloak of borrowing) the Egyptians of their substance. The mariners and the shipmasters being with jonas, in that sudden storm and tempest raised by God, were free from murder and shedding of innocent blood by gods will plainly revealed by the mouth of the Prophet. jehu was not only justified from all the suspicion of treason, which men might have gathered of his fact, but also from cruelty, in killing those idolaters, who manifestly declared themselves friends to Baal: by that, that God did first reveal his will unto him, sending his Prophet to anoint him, and after approved his zeal, which he rewarded which temporal promise of the kingdom to continue in his posterity to the fourth of his seed. Thus I say doth God justify the works of these instruments which obey his will revealed. And so I say that they only obey God that knowing his will do study to obey the same. But contrary wyes, who soever doth any thing, ignorant of gods will not knowing the will of God revealed, repugneth or doth contrary to the same (howsoever he serveth gods eternal purpose) doth nether obey God, nether can he be excusable before gods justice. And that because in his work & fact he looketh nothing to gods will, nether yet to the end and purpose which God respecteth. And hereof springeth and artiseth the difference betwixt the works of God, & the works of man, yea betwixt the works of the godly, and the works of the ungodly. God worketh all his works, to manifest his glory, his wisdom, his power, his mercy, goodness & justice. The godly moved by the holy Spirit, work their works to give obedience unto God, to support their brethren in their necessities at his commandment, and to punish vice according to his law. But the ungodly carried headlongs by their own lusts, and by the fury of sathan, to whose power they are committed, work all their works to revenge themselves, to destroy such as they hate, and to promote their own enterprises without any respect had to God, to his will, ordinance or counsel. One or two examples shall make this matter more sensible. The will purpose and counsel of God in punishing job was to try his patience, and of the same to leave an example to all them that truly fear God to the end. And who dare deny this to be most reasonable, and most just, that God examining sharply one of his children shall make him a scolmaster to all the rest? But what was the will and purpose of sathan, and of the Chaldeans, by whom job was punished? The will and purpose of sathan is plainly revealed to have been, that by those afflictions he fully purposed to withdraw job from gods fear, and to cause him curse God to his face. The will of the Chaldeans against job. The will of the Chaldeans is evident enough, by the manifest malice of all such oppressers, who look to nothing but to satisfy their own covetous minds by the possessions of others, which tyrannously and unjustly they by violence spoil. And thus doth the diversity of the minds of the workers, make the plain difference betwixt their vorkes. An other: God in expelling David from his kingdom, in giving his wives with great ignominy to be defiled by his own son Absalon, and in commanding Semei to curse him, had respect to his own justice, which can not suffer sin unpunished. even in his dearest children, thereby leaving example to all ages following, that such as willingly would not suffer gods grievous plagues, shall avoid manifest contempt of his holy commandements. And this I think will all men confess to be a work (in so far as it is wrought by God) most just, Of David's trouble Absal●● Semei and Achitophel and most equal. for as God doth honour them who do honour him, so must they be contemned, who contemn him. But what was the mind of Achitophel counsellor, of Absalon the incestuous adulterer, and of Semei the blasphemous curser? The one studied to make such hatred betwixt the father and the son, as after should never be reconciled. The unnatural & monstruous son declaring himself mortal enemy to his father according to the wicked counsel, thought to bind unto him the hearts of the people. And Semei willing to make David odious to all men, Of the diversity inthe work of the death of Christ. and to have brought him, if possible had been to uttermost desperation, powered forth the vennym which before lurked in his hid corrupt & stinking stomock. The same might I show in the precious death of the innocent Son of God. in which the great and unsearchable love of God towards us doth shine, so that Christ's death in so far as it was the work of God, proceeded from love, from mercy & justice. but touching the instruments, whom God used in execution of the same, as in an other place I have said, they looked nothing to gods counsel, but were altogether carried to iniquity: some by avarice, some by pride, and by ambition, some, by malice hatred and envy. so that amongst them all, none was found that studied to obey God, nor his holy will revealed. And thus it is evident▪ why the work of God in such cases, is just and good, as it that is wrought in wisdom mercy and justice: and that for most just cau●es, purpose & end. And why the works of wicked men (supposing that God in some respect will then) are yet unjust and repugning to his will, never done to obey him, and therefore are they and their workers subject to malediction, vengeance & damnation, pronounced by God in his law against the workers of iniquity. Now let us examine your reasons. If it was gods will (say you that phara● should refuse to let the people go, then did he submit himself to the word of the lord, I deny the consequent. for neither did Pharaoh know the holiewil of God, neither did he submit himself to that which was commanded & revealed unto him. The will of God was, in that people to give an example & testimony to the world, that the only benediction of God, was sufficient to give multiplication & increase to his Church, even against the determined fury of sathan, and of all wicked, that he would give unto his Church being afflicted most joyful, and most wondrous deliverance: and finally that no obstinate enemy of god's people (how so ever they seem to rage and triumph) shall in the end escarp judgement and vengeance justly deserved. Do you think that Pharaoh either knew this will of God either yet that he retained the people in bondage for any of these ends? I think not. then did he not submit himself to gods will▪ but obstinately did resist, so far of gods will, as was revealed unto him. And therefore I say, that God and Pharaoh were of most contrary wills, and most contrary minds. God willing his Name, his power and his wisdom, to be preached and praised to the end, for the deliverance of his afflicted people. But Pharaoh willing to retain in perpetual bondage the people, (whom God commanded him to set at freedom & liberty) to serve him, as he should command. And therefore albeit that wicked Pharaoh was an instrument, by whom those things were brought to pass, yet were his works neither well nor justly done, but tyrannously: and most obstinately did he fight against God. And therefore in the end, most justly was he punished. Behold your spider webs with les labour dissolved & burst (than I am assured) you and your great captain Castalio did spin knit & veave the same to your great shame & perpetual condemnation, except that speedily you repent. Now to the rest, which followeth in these words. ADVERSARY, As for the sentence which ye allege God maketh hard hearted, whom he will, and of whom he will he hath mercy, The 3. Argument. this place hath been very unreasonably wrested of some of you, The 39 section. so that thereby you have burdened God to be the cause of condemnation, who at his pleasure receiveth or resiseth such as have either of pain or pleasure deserved nothing at all. God forbidden that any man should conceive such a fantasy of God, but we must first learn how God lightened all men that came into this world which light who so refuseth, him the Lord by long sufferance, with bountiful benefits and fatherly corrections doth call to repentance. But if we loving darkness better than light, will utterly refuse light, or after we have been by the goodness of God partakers of gods grace, do forsaik the covenant of the Lord, then hath he mercy on whom he will, and that for his own saik, and others he maketh hard hearted, that is he giveth them over to their own hearts lusts, So that the cause of their induration, is not the will and pleasure of God which doth nothing without a just cause, but their obstinate wickedness which will not be reform. These suffer justly and the other receive grace by the mercy fo God which may when he will, have mercy, on whom he will, and that besides his covenant. ANSWER. Because that nothing resteth to the end of this your book (your blasphemies and raling excepted) which is not sufficiently before answered, I intent only to touch those things which you unjustly lay to our charges, To the 1 and frankly confess in what points you and we do manifestly dissent in opinion, and doctrine. and first I say that most unjustly you accuse us, laying to our charge that we burden God, to be the cause of condemnation, the which we all with one consent impute to man, to sin, and to the devil the first solicitor to sin. And therefore, except that ye can note, and evidently convict some one (or more) of us, that so hath written or affirmed of God, ye can not be purged from the horrible crime of unjust accusation, and detestable slander. We utterly descent from you that God lighteneth every man, that cometh into this world, in such sort as you affirm, that is, hat he calleth all to repentance & offereth light of salvation to all, so that God refuseth none, except such as utterly refuse light, or such as have been partakers of gods grace, and do forsaik the covenant of the Lord. for besides the evident testimonies of the scriptures, the common experience from the beginning doth witness, that God in that manner hath not illuminated every man. for how many do perish in their mother's bellies? how many suddenly die before their reason can judge of good and evil? how many are deprived of natural reason & understanding? Yea how many remain wild & brutish, living like beasts and eating one another? how many do continue all their life without any other knowledge of God, than the visible creatures of God do teach them? which I think ye will not affirm to be sufficient illumination to provoke them to repentance or to attain to life. I pray you what light had Esau refused when God pronounced this sentence: the elder shall serve the younger. upon the which the Apostle as before we have declared doth conclude that yer the children had done either good or bad, the one was loved, & the other was hated. That God doth nothing without a just cause, To the 3 most willingly we confess. But that there is no justice in God, to the ground whereof, your blind reason doth not pierce, we constantly deny. And therefore we must needs affirm, that to seek an other cause of gods works, than his holy will, is more than impiety. for the causes be known to his wisdom alone, why some he hath chosen to life everlasting in Christ jesus his Son. and why that others are left in perdition the cause may be secret (as Augustine speaketh) but unjust can it not be. because it proceedeth from gods will, which is the perfect rule of all justice and equity. If that ye cry till that the mountains resound again: the obstinate iniquity of the reprobate will not be reform, and ●hat is he cause of their induration: in few and sober words we answer: That in man there is no wickedness which God may not reform, if so be his godly will and good pleasure. TO t●e 4. Albeit of these your words: God may have mercy when he will, on whom he will, and that besides his covenant. some suspicion may arise, that greatly you do not esteem that inestimable benefit granted unto us in Christ jesus his only Son. yet will I so favourably interpret your words as I can. If ye understand that such as this day be ignorant of God, enemies to his truth, & persecutors of his saints, may suddenly or after this, be called to the true knowledge of that communion which is betwixt God and man, by Christ jesus, I do fully agree with you. for so was Abraham, so was Paul, and so were the Gentiles: who long did live without true, knowledge of God, and without (as touching their own apprehension) the assurance of his covenant and league. But if you understand that God can or will receive to mercy at any time such as he hath not elected to life everlasting in Christ jesus his Son before all times, we utterly abhor that error, as a pestilence most pernicious. Now to that which followeth. ADVERSARY. That place of the book of ●he kings. The ●. argument. The Lord commandeth Semei to curse David, I understand so forasmuch as God is the author of all goodness▪ and of no evil, he gave not a wicked mind to Semei. But willing to exercise his servant David, under the cr●sse, The 40. section. and fin●ing Semei a naughty and evil minded man specially towards David, he gave him the bridle, which being left of God, he by the enticement of the devil, which was already in his heart, did curse David▪ and David being governed by the spirit of God did paciciently suffer the wicked to curse him, h●ping that God, would turn his cursing into blessing▪ for this did David know. that without the permission and suffering of God Semei could no more curse him then Balaam might curse the Israelites, it followeth not therefore, that God did effectually move Semei to do the wicked deed, but only suffered him, yet if ye will seek to the literal sense of this place and a●●●rm that G●d did effectually command Semei to curse David, than I must go this way to work with you: all that the Lord commandeth, is just, if it be just to command to curse, It is just to obey to curse. for the righ●●ousnes of the deed, is known by the righteousness of the commandment: as it is unjust to obey an unjust commandment, so is it just to obey a just commandment wherefore Semei obeying the commandment of God, which is just, did justly, you will say tha● Semei did not obediently, tha● is to obey God, but of an evil mind cursed David. I answer you after your owns saying, that this was also the w●ll of God that Semei should have an evil mind and not to please God cursed David▪ for you say that God gave him an evil mind to curse David, wherefore in tha● he of a disobedient mind cursed David he was obedient to God. and as we have said to obey God it is just. I pray you then why commandeth David, job. 17 his son Solomon to punish Semei for this just act, they which fear ●hey door frost, sayeth job, the snow shall fall upon them, likwies so long as you stick to your error, when you think to avoid one danger, you shall fall into a greater. ANSWER. You do ever decline from the principal scope and so make ye a false conclusion, To the 1. & 2 for we do not deny but God finding in Semei at that time a wicked mind towards David did louse the bridle to his corrupted affections. but in two things do you and we differre. The first is that whether he found any wickedness in him which his godly power might not have removed, if so he had determined to have done from the beginning? And secondarily if so he gave him the bridle, that he might not have impeded the s●me, if such had been his godly will: and therefore where you affirm that God did effectually move Semei to that wicked deed. if you understand that in so far as the deed was wicked, the Spirit of God, I mean the holy Ghost did not move him thereunto, I subscribe with you. for so outrageously to curse David, in the day of his great calamity, he was moved by that venom which long had lurked in his breast, and by the instigation of the devil. But if thereupon you conclude, as that you seem to do by your manifest words, that God did nothing else but only suffer him. Because I say that such idle permission can neither agree with god's power, nor with his justice, we must needs affirm, that when God giveth over the wicked into a lewd, and reprobate mind, that then as justly he punisheth sin by sin, so doth he more than only suffer. To the 3. & 4. There is more required that a fact be just and justly and obediently done, them a just commandment. to wit: That he doer have gods express commandment for his assurance. And secondarily that he look, and have respect to the same ends, which God hath uttered in his word. and last that he do it only to obey God. Now prove any of these to have been in Semei, and I will confess that ye have once triumphed. I find that David did acknowledge gods commandment and counsel, and therefore at that time would he not arm himself nor his servants to take vengeance. But what commandment of God I pray you did Semei either acknowledge or confess. I find no mention that he excuseth himself, no not by any commandment that he had received of God, when after he submitteth himself to David in the day when he returned and came over jordane. But I find him plainly to confess his offence saying: Let not my Lord impute wickedness unto me, 2. Re. ●. nor remember the thing that thy servant did wickedly, when my Lord the king departed out of jerusalem, that the king should take it to his heart. for thy servant doth know that I have done amiss. If Semei had either known any commandment of God, or if he had looked to the same end to the which God looked, he might have had plausible reasons to have persuaded David, to have showed favour and mercy unto him. first he might have said, Oh David although thou was king, and that I did curse thee, thou oghtest no more to be offended against me, than thou wast against the Prophet Nathan. for as he had gods commandment plainly to reveal thy sin, and sharply to rebuke the same, to the end that thou mightest be more effectually moved to repentance, so had I gods commandment bitterly to curse thee, to the end that thou mightest humble thyself before thy God, whom so highly thou hast offended. These I say I had been plausible reasons to have moved David to mercy. But the cankered conscience of Semei did witness against him, self that he to his knowledge had neither commandment of God, neither yet that he looked to any purpose or counsel of God: but only to David's, utter confusion & destruction, which he maliciously sought. And so I say albeit that god's commandment in the self was just. for the purpose and end which he had appointed, yet was this commandment hid to Semei, and gods purpose also unknown to him: & therefore was his fact neither justly nor obediently done. for a just fact (as I have before said) requireth a good will to obey a just commandment: and obedience requireth knowledge of the will, which neither of both was in Semei. Now prove if you can either injustice in God who thus doth use this wicked instrument, or yet in David his sernant, who in his testament commanded the dissembled hypocrisy to be punished. The rest of your vain sophistry, which of Castalio you have begged, doth nothing profit you. for albeit we should confess that it was the will of God in some respect, that Semei should have an evil and inobedient mind: how shall you be able to prove, that therefore he did obey God? Is it not the will of God, that sathan, and the wicked world, of a wicked and malicious mind, trouble and tempt his children in this earth? Doth it therefore follow that Satan and the wicked obey God? or doth it not most justly follow, that because God will that our patience should be known, & that the wicked from time to time proceed in their impiety till the measure be full, that therefore they can never obey God. And in this our affirmation we fear not so much the frost nor snow, as that we lament your uncomely jesting in gods scriptures. Thus you proceed. THE ADVERSARY. An argument you make in that place of Genesis where I●seph saith unto his brethren, The 5 argument. God sent me hither, for your lives saik, and thereafter, it was not you that sent me hither, but God which hath made me a father unto Pharaoh: of this do you gather, that the wicked deed which joseph's brethren did in selling him, The 〈◊〉 section. was the Lord's deed, and secret will: But for so much as the patriarchs here committed double sin, first, grieved their father, and secondly, they did commit the greatest kind of these, that is, to sell a man's child from him, which by the law ●ght to be punished by death. therefore may we see that this deed was not done by gods will for 〈◊〉 was contrary to this commandements, neither will he any wickedness. but according to his nature which is ever good, he turned their wicked deed to a good end, for his servants Abraham Isaac, and Iacobs sake● for he showeth mercy to the thousand genera●ion of them that love him. this to be so, it is plainly proved by the latter chapter where joseph saith unto his brethren, you thought▪ evil over me. but God ha●h turned it unto good, to do as it is come to pass this day. mark well what is here ascribed unto joseph's brethren and what unto God. They thought evil and God turned it to good. Then their minds and gods mind were not all one, wherefore it was not gods will that they should thus do wickedly, notwithstanding that this place of the last of Geneses is so manifest and direct against your error, as can be, yet will you not agree to the truth, but fly to your shameful shift of gods secret will. for here you say that it was gods secret will, that this should so come to pass so that the patriarchs thoughts were moved to do this by God. Thus you attribute to God that which is proper to the devil, by the testimony of the word: Whereby we be taught that the devil moved men with evil thoughts. God commandeth us to resist evil thoughts which if they come of him then commandeth he us to resist himself. james saith, that no man is tempted of God. But to move with evil thoughts is to tempt, all is good which cometh from the father of light wherefore if evil thoughts come from him they must be good, then was joseph's saying untrue, you thought evil over me, but you grant evil thoughts to be evil, and yet you say, that they came from God, then may we call God the f●ther ●f darkness: because from him came evil thoughts which are darkness. And where you say●, that God doth hose things for his own glory I answer that saying is but vain▪ for we glorify him when we judge him worthy to be glorified, as Nabuchadnez or being changed into a brutish nature having experience of the justice & power of God he gave glory to God for as much as he did see & judged God to be just, God willbe glorified of all nations, then must gods works be such as all nations may know ●hem and praise them, yet is ●here no nation which at any time shall acknowledge God to be just, for because he punished a man for the offence, whereunto he himself did provoke him. The Philistians priests and so●h sayers gave glory to God & judged him to be just in that he plagued Phara● in that he hardened his heart against God, desiring their ruler▪ by the same example not to harden the●r hearts against God, but to send away the Ark of the Lord, lest he likwies plague them. But if the Philistians soothe sayers had known (as ye presume to do) that God did harden Phara●s heart, what 〈◊〉 could they attribute to God for punishing Pharaoh for that thing whereof he was the author himself, moving and forcing Pharaoh thereunto, seeing as you have said, no man is able to resist his secret will, what justice had it been to punish Semei for that offence, where of God was the author commanding him to do it: David saith, thus the Lord is known to execute true judgement, when the ungodly is trapped in the works of his twne hands, not when he punished for the offence whereunto he moved men himself. If God should punish a man because he hath a beard, should any glory redound to God thereof, seeing he hath given us beards himself▪ But here you be very religious, and say we ought not to speak so unreverently of the wo●k● of God, for this is the secret judgement of God unknown to us I answer there be some secrets of God unknown to us. But the judgement of God is known & made manifest to us in the word, and after this word (as saint Paul teacheth) not after your secret judgement shall God judge the world, & so shall God be glorified of all godly & ungodly forasmuch as all shall judge is to be just, & they which have not obeyed the truth (not your unknowene truth) but that which is known, that is ●he word, shallbe punished and they which have obeyed to the ●rue●h, not secret as yours but revealed in god's word, shall receive their reward. Moreover if this be the secret judgement of God, who reu●led it them to you How do you know it to be secret, is it secret which you know and teach●n deed I think it to heso, for it is so secret, that I can not cache no hold of it. But herein I de perceive, not the secret, but ●he manifest judgement of God. which suffereth you to err thus because you with hold the truth is unrighteousness, Roma. 1 and according to your knowledge you have not glorified God, neither have you been thankful, but waxed full of vanities in your owned imaginations. wherefore my counsel is that you ●urn● against from ●hat infi●●●●tie wherein you have drowned yourselves, believe ●he word & s●k● no further for it is the power of God to salutation to every one that believeth. ANSWERER. As your most pestilent sect, To the 1. & 2. even from the first original of it, hath with all malicious craft laboured to subvert and confound gods most perfect ordinance, so do you in this matter confound those things, which we most plainly and most destinctly set a part, and divide them the one from the other. for first you are never able to prove that any of us hath alleged, or yet doth allege the word or fact of joseph and his brethren, for any proof of gods eternal election, or most just reprobation. but to declare that such is god's providence towards his chosen children, and towards their salvation, & preservation of his church, that what so ever sathan and wicked men imagine to the destruction of gods elect, that same doth his infinite goodness convert to their profit, comfort and joy. And so this is the first, that impudently ye confound, to wit his providence which extendeth to all his creatures, with his election which pertaineth only to his children. The second is, no man hath ever put more plain difference betwixt the wicked will of Satan, the corrupt and malicious will of man, and the holy and most just will of God, them we do in all our doctrine and writings. And yet ye accuse us, that we attribute to God that which is proper to the devil, that is to move the thought of men to do evil. How far that impiety is from all our cogitations, as God one day shall manifestly reveal to your eternal confusion (except that speedily you repent) so may all godly men who either have heard our voices or red our writings, bear record how justly you accuse us. we constantly affirm that God neither moved by his holy spirit, the hearts of the patriarchs to envy and hatred, neither vet of Pharaoh to cruelty, neither yet to iniquity. for that is naturally borne with all men, and needeth the power of the potent Spirit of God to extinguish and quench it, but not to inflamed and kindle it. But yet we say that God who out of darkness produced or brought forth light, had in that most detestable fact of the patriarchs, both his will and his counsel, far contrary to their minds and purpose: even as he had in the cruel and most unjust death (as concerning the instruments that were the executors) of his dear son Christ jesus. nether yet doth it there of follow, that evil thoughts, whereunto we are commanded to resist, are moved by him, or yet come from him. for the fountain thereof doth every wicked man so find within himself that his own conscience shall convict him that no where else is the cause of his iniquity (& of the severe punishment, which for the same he shall sustain) to be sought but only within himself, and as proceeding of himself by instigation of the devil: into whose power he is delivered (as was Saul and others) by the inscrutable and incomprehensible (but yet most just) judgements of God. If in you were either modesty or discretion, To the 6. 7. 8. 9 10 to judge of those things that be well, & godly spoken, or yet docility to be taught in those things where of utterly ye declare yourselves ignorant, ye could not thus as in a furious rage spew forth your venom against gods supreme Majesty. for your horrible blasphemies are not so much spoken against us, as against God. As for us, they do no more obscure the manifest light of our doctrine, then if in your despite, ye should spit against the bright sun to impede the brightness thereof. for in none of our writings be you able to show any of these sentences, which maliciously & without shame you lay to our charge: Evil thoughts come▪ from God. God punisheth man for the offences whereof he is author, and where unto he provoketh him. God moved and forced Phara● to pnuishe the people. These I say and others your horrible blasphemies (which we so detest, that we affirm, the first authors of them to be worthy of most sharp punishment) you be never albe to show in any of our writings. And this might serve for a sufficient answered to all your despiteful raling. But lest you should still glory in your iniquity and gross ignorance, I will discover the same following your answer, in the words of S. james saying God tempteth no man. if ye affirm that God nether tempteth the obeidience of his servants, nether yet sendeth false prophets to tempt his people, his plain scriptures will rebuke your vanity. for God tempted Abraham, he tempted his people forty years in the wilderness, he tempteth also by sending false prophets, as Moses doth witness. And therefore ye must be compelled to grant, that this word tempting or to tempt is diversly taken in the scriptures: sometimes to try and examine, sometimes to bring to light and knowledge things that be secret in man's heart, sometimes to seek by experience a certainty of things spoken, pronounced, or affirmed, and sometimes move, or to provoke to iniquity: & in this last signification we confess that God tempteh no man. for as the matter of all iniquity lieth within man, so is he provoked, moved, and stirred thereunto by his own lusts, and instigation of the devil only. And thus albeit we grant that to move evil thoughts, is to tempt, yet we deny the conversion. which is this, Ergo to tempt is to move evil thoughts. But let us hear further of your profound vanity: all is good say you that cometh from the father of light (God grant that in your hearts ye were assuredly so persuaded) if evil thoughts come from him they must be good. and so you conclude, that then was joseph's words falls, and that God may be called the father of darkness (O execrable is your blasphemy) because from him come evil thoughts which are darkness. Answer. If any of us have so written or spoken, let us be stoned to death as execrable blasphemers. And if that ye in your blind fury do therewith unjustly burden us, although ye may escape the hands of man, yet shall you not esskape gods severe and sudden vengeance. It is malice that will not suffer you to understand how that these evils which men willingly commit; in so far as they come from God are just, profitable and good. for we most constantly affirm that the damnation of the devil, the induration of Pharaoh, the deceiving of Achab, and other such, in so far as they proceeded from God, are his just and good works, because they are the punishment of sin, the excecution of his just judgements, and a declaration of his justice. which justly is armed against the obstinate rebellion of Angels, and men. but thereof to conclude, ergo their evil thoughts, their malicious minds, their hatred and cruelty came immediately from God, is more than a blasphemy. for all these be, and are found within the offenders, which God doth use not by an idle permission (for that is a thing most contrarious to his justice) but effectually as his wisdom best knoweth, they shall serve to his glory, & that for utility of his chosen children. I say it is a thing most contrarious to god's justice & power, ydly to suffer iniquititie to be done, if he had no further respect than to the fact, as it is committed. for as a man can not be excused, who may impede murder and doth it not, so can not gods justice be excused by your idle permission, if he had no further respect, but to things as they be done by man. And so is god's justice rather accused then maintained by the foolishness of your curious brains, saying God permitteth many things which he would not. what vanity is this? Is it not a thing confessed amongst all, that gods power is omnipotent? who then can compelle him to suffer, that which he would not? And why doth he willingly suffer things, which in his law, he hath forbidden? I answer, for the manifestation of his own glory which is more precious than the heaven and the earth, and all the creatures in the same contained. And thus doth vanity cause you to fear that god's justice shall fall into decay, except it be undersett & upholden with your foolish distinction, betwixt his will & his permission. but we fear not to affirm that he permitteth nothing, which in some respect he will not. for as he is omnipotent & a most loving father so should he suffer no calamity to come nor cruelty to be used against his children▪ except he did before see, yea and before determine their comfort & his glory to arise of the same. And will you say that gods glory the comfort and the preservation of his Church is an evil work? because that wicked men are instruments, by whom gods eternal counsel is brought to pass. Was the exaltation of joseph to honour, the preservation of egypt, and of other nations from famine, yea and the feeding of jacob and his family, an evil work? because that, joseph's brethren of malice and envy did sell him to the Ismaelites, and they for lucre did seli him again to Putiphare, whose wife of malice did most unjustly accuse him, & so being in prison at length he was brought to the knowledge of Phirao, and so was promoted for his revelation, and wisdom to honour and dignity. O say you it is not this that we do lay to your charge, but you affirm that God was author of the malice, and of the wicked thoughts of joseph's brethren. You do bely us most maliciously. for we constantly deny that God either powered in them any malice, o● did move by his holy Spirit any wicked thought into them. for those we say they had of nature, in so far as it is corrupted. But we say that God used their wicked thoughts and malice to his glory, and to the full comfort of him whose destruction they sought, and that he did not ydly permitting them, but effectually working by such instruments and means as his wisdom had before appointed. Rage now as you list. for albeit to you this saying is vain that God worketh all things for his own glory, yet will not God have his glory measured by the vanity of your brain. We glorify God say you, when we judge him worthy to be glorified. Answer if you understand that then only, and at none other time else do men glorify God, but when they confess him worthy of glory, you are ignorant, foolish, and manifest liars. for your argument is no better, then if I should say: man sleepeth in the night season, therefore no man may or can sleep at any other time. If your master Castalio had considered that an argument made, a specie ad genus, negative is vain and foolish, he had not heaped together so many sophistical reasons: by the which you and others are abused. To make this matter some what more plain: If the glory of God consist in the manifestation of his mercy, of his truth, of his power, of his wisdom and of his most just judgements, then do all creatures glorify, God, whether they judge him worthy or unworthy of the same. for David affirmeth that the heavens declare the glory of God, and yet have they nether judgement nor understanding: the heaven and the earth saith Isaiah are replenished with his glory. Isa. 6 And in an other place the beasts of the field shall preach my glory the dragons and the birds of ostriches, and Achan also was commanded to give glory unto God. The earth, shallbe compelled saith Habacuc to knowledge the glory of God. Zacharie also the Prophet saith for his glory hath he sent unto the nations which have spoiled you. finally shall not sathan and the reprobate in their just condemnation give glory unto God? and do ye think that all these creatures, judge God to be worthy of glory in such sort as they acknowledge his power, his wisdom his justice, & from their hole heart submit themselves to his holy will? I trust you do not. for we know that sathan is a spirit confirmed in malice, and rebellious against God, & yet is he compelled even in torments to give glory unto God, in so far, as in his just damnation he declareth god's power and just judgements. And therefore I say that you restrain the glory of God with in to straight & narrow limits, when that you will that it shall extend no further, then to such as from their heart judge God worthy of glory, the which pertaineth to his chosen children only and can never be given by the reprobate. for such glory must proceed from faith, which is not common unto all, but is the special gift given to gods elect: & yet nevertheless by other means God declareth his glory, even in the vessels of his wrath, as is before declared. Of the example of Nabuchadnezer ye can make but a particular conclusion in this for me, Nabuchadnezer after he had felt the just punishment of his pride and arrogancy, gave glory unto God: Ergo some man after punishment giveth glory unto God. If you make your conclusion extend any further, it is false. for if you say that all men after punishment give glory unto God, which the same confession that he gave, many examples may be shown to the contrary. if you say that none other giveth glory unto God, except such as so be punished: that will be proved likewies falls. And if you say that gods glory doth shine in none, except in those that acknowledge & confess God to be merciful and just, that is most vain of all, and thus I say your conclusion must be but particular. The reasons & the conclusion, which you make upon these words of David: Praise God all you nations, are so foolish, on the one parr, and so filthy and execrableupon the other, that amongst all nations ye ought not only to he mocked, but also to be had in horror and detestation. first you say. If God must be praised amongst all nations, then must gods works be such as all nations may know them and praise them. I answer, even so they are, and such amongst all nations as have the eyes of their minds illuminated by gods holy spiri●, do see just cause why that they ought to praise gods wisdom, even in all his works. But you proceed saying there is no nation which at any time shall acknowledge God to be just, for that be punisheth ma●, for that whereunto he himself did provoke him, and so after the example of the priests of the Philistines, ye ask this question: If God should punish man because he hath a beard, should any glory redound 〈◊〉 God there of, seeing he hath given us beards his self, And so you scoff & jest at us, saying that we be very religious: because we say that none ought to speak so unreverently of gods works. God is witness that I writ notwithou● some grief of heart, nether yet that I affirm this, which I am to speak. for privy hatred, which I bear against the person of any man. But in god's presence I say, that rather than such horrible blasphemies should have been fostered in my heart, devised in my brain, written by my pen, and pronounced by my mouth and tongue, that rather I would my carcase should have suffered most cruel and vile death. yea and further I say, that better it had been, for you never to have been borne, then thus blasphemously to expose gods great Majesty to opprobry and mockage. for I appeal to the judgement of the heaven and the earth, and of all creatures in the same contained, if ever that julian the appostate spoke more disdainfully of God, then here you write. But for the instruction of the simple reader, to answer you more reasonably, than your unreverent skoffing deserveth, I say first, that the mind of David was not to teach us what every nation and every particular man amongst the Gentiles shall do, The place of David. but what was the duty of every nation, every people and every man to do, when gods mercies should be offered unto them. And therefore if you conclude all nations do praise God, in such sort as David meaneth, because that the holy Ghost by his mouth commandeth all nations to praife God, you make no better an argument, then if ye should affirm, that every man loveth God with all his heart, with all his mind, & with all his strength, because that God so commandeth. This is one portion of your ignorance. The second followeth, gods works, say you, must be such as all nations may know them and praise them. I answer, if you understand that all that praise God unfeignedly from their hearts must have some knowledge of his mercies, goodness, just judgements and wondrous works we distent not from you. But if you say (as by your process is evident, that you do), that except all nations perceive and understand the very ground of god's justice, that God amongst them shall have no glory. then as we lament your foolishness, so we detest your error▪ for albeit that the natural man can never attain to the knowledge of those things which God purposeth, yet shall not God be defrauded of his golry, no not in the most carnal and wretched man. Christ jesus was sent into the world, and came to that people which was called his own: and his glory did so shine to the eyes of some, job. 1. that they did acknowledge it to be the glory of the only Son of God▪ But did the princes of the priests and the hole nation of the jews see the same glory, and so confess him as did the elect? Saint Paul witnesseth the contrary. saying, if they had known, they had not crucified the king of glory. Paul was appointed a preacher to the Gentiles, amongst whom he most faithfully and most boldly did open the treasures of gods great mercies, and of the glory of his Son Christ jesus: but did every city, realm, nation or man, to whom these treasures were opened so receive, understand and embrace them, that for the same they glorified God? the contrary is evident. But was God therefore defrauded of his glory, even in the midst of a wicked generation? God forbidden. for as the eyes of some were lightened, and so did glorify the word of the Lord, so such as remained obstinate did (and shall) glorify God, in so far as his just judgements were, and shallbe executed against them. If you fear no punishment rage as you list. To your blasphemies I have before answered. for none of us doth impute upon God that he punisheth any man, for thing that he provoketh him to do. for iniquity cometh not of god's provocation, motion, nor holy Spirit, as that before we have declared. and therefore as God hath revealed to us a more assured knowledge in his holy scriptures, than the Philistians priests had, so are we bold to affirm that which was hid from them, & which also you can not abide, to wit, that all creatures are compelled to serve to gods glory in such sort as his wisdom hath appointetd them: and yet that the wills of men are neither violently moved nor enforced by God to commit iniquity, to the which all men are ready bend of natural corruption. Amongst many foolish and most disagreeing similitudes which your captain Castalio useth for probation of his purposes (for in such doth stand the chief ground of his divinity) none can be more foolish, nor further repugning to that which he and you would prove, then is this. If God should punish a man: because he hath a beard, should any glory redound to God there of▪ seeing he hath given us beards him seis: Here of you will infer, that if God punish sin which he hath willed or appointed to be, then can he not be just. But let us examine, if your Simile doth agree even in the chief points, in the which if it prove any thing it must agree. first we know that the beard of man was created by God. But who amongst us did yet ever affirm that sin and iniquity was made or created by God? Sin we confess was foreseen, yea and ordained in the incomprehensible counsel of God, and that for the most just and the most righteous end and purpose. But that it was made or created by God, that are ye not able to prove by our doctrine. Thus doth your similitiude halt in the chief member. for they must be both a like gods creatures and creation, if God shall be bound no more to punish man, for having of the one, then for having of the other. moreover the beard of man so springeth groweth, and abideth of a mere natural motion, that albeit men sleep, eat, drink, do or what so ever actions pleaseth them, (not taking care or solicitude of their beard) it cometh nevertheless to that state and perfection that nature will suffer. But hath man sin none otherways then thus? Doth ma sin I say, having neither will, mind, nor appetite to sin? or doth not sin proceed from so voluntary and corrupt motion, that the will, the judgement, the understanding, and appetites, yea the hole man, and all his cogitations are subject to sin, and bend upon in iquitie at all times▪ Be judges yourselves how well do the parts of your similitudes agree. Thus with greater modesty have I answered your foolishness, them your scoffing scurrility deserveth. Where you affirmethat albeit there be some secrets of God unknown to us, To the 11. 12 13 yet is the judgement of God known, and made manifest to us in the word, I would ask of you, if ye can by the plain word assign causes of all gods judgements from the beginning, and of those judgements which that day shallbe put in execution when the secrets of all hearts shallbe revealed. And if you be able so to do, yeshould be profitably occupied (as I think) if by your plain and simple writing, ye would study to put end to this controversy. the chief point where of standeth in this, that we affirm, that causes able to satisfy the curiosity of man, can not be assigned from gods plain scriptures, why God permitted a great number of his Angels to fall, of whom he hath redeemed none, but reserveth them to judgement? why God did suffer man to fall, judgements of God in which man's reason can not be satisfied. and yet of one mass, elected some vessels of mercy to honour, and appointed others for sin to damnation? And finally as before I have said, why God deferred the sending of his Son so long, and why also that his again coming is so long delayed? If ye will answer that these two last, are resolved by the scriptures, the one to be as the Apostle writeth, Heb. 11. lest that the fathers should have been made perfect with out us, and the other that the number of gods elect children might be fully complete▪ which we confess to be a reason most strong, and sufficient for all gods children: neither yet do we require any other. but yet the curious brain will not so be quieted, but it will still demand, may not God in one moment if so it please him, fulfil the number of his chosen children, as well as he of nothing did create the heaven and the earth, and shortly in the space of six natural days set all things in perfect ordre. Consider with yourselves what you do take in hand, if ye will affirm that all gods judgements be so known, that a sufficient reason of every one may be assigned from the word. and if you say there be some things secret. The consider, I beseech you that the holy Ghost hath never made mention of any greater secret, then that which lieth hid in gods most just judgements, which Paul affirmeth to be incomprehensible, and David saith they are deep and so profound, that neither can the understanding of man, nor of Angel reach to the bottom of the same. Why ye should accuse us that we should affirm, To the 12. that God shall judge the world, not according to Christ's evangel plainly revealed, but according to some other secret will, I see neither cause, nor reason. for no men do more constantly abide by that which is written and revealed, no men do less care, to seek for new revelations or uncertain authorities, than we do. Our continual doctrine is, that God shall absolve from damnation such as by true faith embrace his dear Son Christ jesus, and shall condemn to fire inextinguible all infideles, and such as delight in manifest impiety and wickedness: and this judgement do we believe that God shall pronounce by his Son Christ jesus to whom all judgement is given. And for none other secret will in that matter do we search. But if I lust, I could lay to some of your charges, that which none of you can be able to deny, to wit that some of you have written (besides your privy informations) that there is a doctrine more perfect than ever Saint Paul committed to writing, yea and further that some of you have called the hole scriptures of God in doubt: and some do affirm that none is able by the word written to decide the controversies that this day be in religion. And therefore that we must have new Prophets, and new revelations from heaven, before that any public and general reformation shallbe made if any of you think that these things are but imagined by me, let him under his o●ne name impugn them, and I shall show witnesses which at this time, for divers causes I omit. Your jesting at us, your bold judgement and condemnation by you pronounced against us, we remit to him who shortly shall declare which of the two sorts be drowned in infidelity, and leaving gods plain scriptures, have followed the vanities of their own imaginations. Now shortly to that which followeth in these words. THE ADVERSARIES. An other proofbring you of that which is written. 2. Reg. 24. God moved David to number Israel & juda. To which I answer, The 6. Argument. that which is write 1. Parali xi. Satan stood up against Israel & provoked David to number the people, The 42 section. I am certain that if it were not for this manifest scripture you would attribute, the wicked provocation of the devil to God. but here we may see a great light to understand many other places of the scriptures, which seemeth to affirm God to be the author of any evil, for by these two places we may see that God is called to be the author of the thing which he suffered. as because he suffered the obstinate resisting of Pharaoh he is called the author thereof. So because he left Semei to the lewdness of his own mind & suffered him to curse David, God is called the author of his cursing, so the partriarkes being left of God did sell their brother, and here now David being left of God to number the people by the provocation of the devil, whereunto he was no more moved by God, than when he killed Urias. to this you say: that we do but flatter God, when we do assign any difference between his w●l & his permission or his sufferance, for God permitteth nothing (say you) but that which he will, if ye meant so that God permitteth nothing, but that which he will permits, I would them hold your saying true. But for as much as you declare you meaning to be this, that what so ever God permitteth, he willeth it absoutly this is an erron●ouse saying▪ for God permitteth & suffereth all the wickedness which is done upon the earth's: and will you say, that God willeth absolutely all such wickedness? God for bid the people of God should be so persuaded to believe such abomination. I say you are the Prophets of the devil, which teach such filthy doctrine, and ye say ye be the prophets of God, now of necessity one of us lieth, for if you be the Prophet's of God, than I lie, and if you be the Prophets of the devil, they do ye lie, and if God will us to say the truth, he will not that we lie, for than he should will two contraries, which is impossible, yet one of us doth lie which must be by the permission and suffering of God, & not by his will. whereof it followeth, that there is difference betwixt the suffering and the will of God. The Lord was angry with the careless heathen, because when God was a little angry with the Israelites, they did their best to destroy them. Then suffered God the heathan thus to punish his people more grievously, than he willed them to do. wherefore there must be difference between the will of God and his suffering. Obed the Prophet●reproued the Israelites because 〈◊〉 afflicted juda more grievously than God would they should have done▪ 〈◊〉 must the Israelites have done this by the permission of God & n●. ●his will. The prodigal son wasted all his goods riatously if you say that so was his father's will, Luke ● 15. i● should be a great absurdity, wherefore it must needs follow that the father suffered that which he willed not. The father willed both his sons to go and, labour in his vinyeard ye● not bo●h but one of them did his father's will, so the father suffered the other which went not, against his will. Thus we may see a great difference between the will and the permission of God. a notable saying we have in the prophecy of Ieremi● against this error which teache●h ●ha● sin is committed not only by the permission of God, but also against his will, they have (saith he) builded▪ Jere, 32. high places for Baal to vow their sons & daughters unto Molo●h which I never commanded ●hem, neither came it ever in my thought to make juda sin with such abomination. Here we see that juda committed that which was contrary to gods revealed will. for I never commanded them (saith he) and against his secret w●ll for i● came never in my thought (saiteh h●). Then did they sin by the permission of God against his wil Thy ways & thy, thoughts brought the to ●his saith the Lord. If it was the lord's secret will that the Israelites should sin. and it was also the Israelites thoughts & will to sin, them were they both of one mind. And as the 〈◊〉 outwardly by the word willeth them not to do evil, so they out wardlie did promise to keep gods law & wourshipped him with their lips. By 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 seemed that both in wardlie and outwardly they were conform to God af●er your opinion. wherefore he ought not to hau● been offended with them. I am ashamed to write the abominable absurditeis which may be gathered of your poisoned doctrine. The lord shall raise up the spirit of the king of the Medes which hath already a desire to destroy Babylon by what means 〈◊〉 the lord stir him up to do any thing which already is bend to do it▪ but by suffering him. jere. 51. And yet is the Lord called the doer thereof. And ●here for it is written. Let one decea●full offender come against another, and one destroyer 〈◊〉 me against an other▪ for what needed God to move the wickd ●o do 〈◊〉 kindly which being given over of God, do imagine nothing bu● w●ck●dnesand his master the devil stepeth never, isaiah. 21, but is always with him tempting him with evil thoughts, and promoking him to perform his w●ck●d imaginations. ANSWER. The more nigh ye draw to the end, the less ye prove your purpose, but the more ye utter your malice and venom. No just cause see we, To the 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. why that the place of the books of the kings shall be explained by that which is written in the chronicles in such sort as you require, 2. Reg. 24. to wit, that nothing be left to God in that grievous offence of David except an idle and only permission. for the holy Ghost feareth not to say: 2. pa. 21 The wrath of the Lord God was yet moved against Israel, and stirred up David against them, that he said go and number Israel and juda. Here plain it is that the eternal God who was angry against Israel dad stir or move David to number them, not by an idle permission, as you allege, but by such motion, as nothing repugneth to his justice. Where ye say, the other place explaineth this: for it affirmeth that the devil stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel, I answer as the one place repugneth nothing to the other, so doth it not explain the other in such sense, as ye adduce for it repugneth not to say, that God, man, and the devil work in one fact & action, as in the histories of job, Achab, Semei, and Pharaoh is manifest. God for just causes giveth his commandment and power to sathan (as to his instrument) be he never so wicked, to do what in his eternal cousel, was before decreed, Satan of a wicked and rebellious mind chooseth such instruments, and useth such means as God likwies hath appointed. Men in all wicked actions, of their fire and voluntary. motion, do follow their corrupt, and wicked affections in declaring their pride, vanity, malice, or cruelty, which wicked affections in so far as they are wicked, we confess that God will not: for he can will no iniquity. but yet that his eternal, & almighty power shall be judged so idle, that it doth nothing in such actions but only suffer, we can not admit for such reasons as we have before alleged, where that we did examine the difference betwixt gods will, and his permission. You retain your old nature (and justly I might say the nature of the devil) most maliciously affirming us, To the 4. to say that what so ever God permitteth he willeth it absolutely, and so that absolutely he willeth all wickd●●ces. Which saying as ye be never able to prove upon us, so do we confess, it not only erroneous, but also so blasphemous, that who so ever dare pronounce or affirm the same, deserveth death. for we most constantly in word and writing affirm, absolutley God willeth no iniquity. for all his works in so far as they proceed from his wisdom: and infinite goodness are holy and just, and therefore do we make God author of no sin, which only proceedeth from the fountains that be corrupted, that is, from the devil and from man, as in divers places, most evidently we have declared. Because I do perceive that greatly ye delight in your prignant wits (I will not say foolish vanity) To the 5 I will recicite your hole words by the which ye would seem to prove contrariety in God, except that we would grant a difference betwixt gods will and his permission. I say saith the author of your book to us, that ye are the Prophets if the devil, which teach such filthy doctrine and ye say, be the Prophets of God. Now of necessity one of us lieth. for if ye be the Prophets of God I lie. And if ye be the Prophets of the devil ye lie. And if God will us to say the truth he will not that we lie, for than he should will two contraries which is impossible, yet one of us lie, which must be by permission and suffering of God and not by his will. whereof it followeth that there is difference betwixt the suffering and the will of God. It appeareth that in this description of persons in which ye oppose yourselves to us, answer. ye would more declare what is your judgement and opinion of us, and what ye would that we should be esteemed of others, then that ye greatly do travail to prove any contrariety in gods will by the same. for his eternal wisdom seeth the means how that his commandment, and his will are not contrarious the one to the other: albeit that he command one thing, and yet for just causes, will wicked men to do the contrary. which kind of contrariety, and repugnance doth so blind your eyes, that you can not see how God can command all men to speak truth, and yet for just causes before seen and determined in his counsel, that he will the devil, and his slaves to delight in lies. Albeit I say that the appearance of this contrariety blind you, yet will not gods truth cease of be truth, neither will the liberty of his eternal Godhead, be brought into bondage to your corrupt judgement. His commandment, and his will, do nether debate, nether fight betwixt themselves: but do agree in all things, even as do his mercy his justice, his wisdom, and his power, albeit oftener it is, that his justice doth punish such, as upon whom he hath determined to have mercy. Even so he commandeth men to obey his commandements, whom he not only foresaw, to be disobedient, but for most just causes willeth his glory to appear even in their unrighteousness, & lies. And this he doth without all contrariety in his godly will, to the full knowledge whereof albeit ye can not attain, yet more profitable it were for you to be ignorant of such things, as God reserveth to be revealed in the time appointed in his eternal counsel, than thus without all reverence, and fear to trouble your foolish brains, in devising such absurdities, as may seem to oppugn gods eternal verity, which in the end w●l triumph to your destruction▪ shame, and confusion, if obstinately you proceed as you have begun. For albeit that he loveth truth, and hateth lies, and albeit that he commandeth man to speak the truth, and forbiddeth man to bear falls witness, yet feareth he not to give a commandment to that wicked spirit, to go forth & to be a lying spirit, in the mouths of all Achabes falls prophets. Yea further he gave him power to work that in the false prophets, which he forbiddeth all men to do. For he commandeth that no man shall deceive an other, and yet giveth he power to the devil to be a lying spirit in the mouths of the false prophets, and to them he giveth power to deceive Achab. If ye list to lay contrarity to the charge of God, prepare your wings, and with Nabuchadnezer of Babylon, Isa. 14 say, we will pass up to the heavens, and shall establish our seats above the stars of God, we shall pass up upon the height of the clouds, and we shall be like to the most highest, yea if thus ye will call his secret counsels to examination, and trial, ye must be judges and superiors to him. Thus justly I might illude and scoff y your reasons, as vanities most unworthy to be answered. But yet having respect to the simple, I will gather your argument, and form it as strongly as yourselves can, and I will answer so much of the same, as ye think able to be answered, your argument is this. God can not will two contraries, but to speak the 〈◊〉, The adversaries argument. Answer. and to lie are contraries. Therefore he can not will them both. But he permitteth men to lie, and willeth them to speak the truth. There is therefore a difference between the will, and the permission. God can not will two contraries, True it is in him self, in one respect, and for one purpose, he who is author of concord, can not will contrariety: but in consideration of his creatures, for divers respects, and sundry purposes, things be not contraries, the one to the other, which to our judgements, have appearance of contrariety. If you be so well seen in your arts, as some of you pretend ye can not but understand this answer to be sufficiet, to dissolve what so ever ye have unreverently collected. But yet to make it more sensible to the simple, I say that in this proposition, God can not will two contraries, and in the conclusion which you make upon the same, you ought to have made a distinction between those things which God simply (or as ye spoke before, absolutely) will, and between those things, which he will for a certain end and purpose, which doth not appear in the external actions. For certain things there be (as in an other place I have entreated) which God will, even for themselves, such as be mercy, justice, temperance chastity, and all other virtues, which he will, have to shine in his elect and please him in Christ jesus his Son. And yet nevertheless he also will cruelty, injustice, excess, filthy life, blindness, & induration to be in others, as just punishments of their sins, and causes of their condemnation. The last (I say) will God to be in the reprobate, not for the wicked acts sake, which do ever displease his Majesty, but for such ends as his wisdom hath appointed. Let this be explained by examples, some natural, and some taken from gods scriptures. There is no man (except he be of a most cruel nature) that considering the incommodities of war, and of battle, doth will it, for the self. And yet a godly prince persewed by external enemies, doth not only will his soldiers to fight, and to maintain the war, but also he provoketh, he encourageth, and exhorteth his subjects to the same. And why is it? because that war or battle pleaseth him in the self, or for the self? No, but because with out such travail, such danger, and hazard, his subjects can not live in quietness, and the estate of his common wealth can not be preserved. The same may I say of godly magistrates punishing murderers, adulterers, and blasphemers with death, and yet nether willing the death of any man, neither yet delighting in the shedding of their blood. In these similitudes I grant somewhat to be unlike: for god's power is not subject to such incommodities unwillingly, as be the powers of men. But yet these similitudes suffice to explain the chief purpose, which is that man may will two contraries, for divers respects, without any contrariety in himself. For peace, and war are contraries, to kill, & to save the life, are likewise contraries, and yet one man, even at one time may will both the one, and the other, for divers respects, and divers ends. He may will peace, for the comfortable quietness, and felicity that theridamas of springeth, and at the same instant without all contrariety in himself, he may will war, to withstand the fury of the enemy, that would oppress his subjects. And may not these things, which we perceive to be in creatures, be in God in greater perfection, although we perceive not the causes? Let us try the answer, both by the examples of gods servants, and last by the example of God himself: Lot, no doubt did agree with gods will in that he loved chastity, sobriety and temperance, and hated filthy life riotous cheer, and excess. For the holy Ghost boareth him this record, that he was pure, and clean both in ears, and eyes. But what will had he when he did offer his two daughters to be deflowered, and abused by those villainous persons? was it contrary to his former will? Did he now begin to delight in that execrable filthiness? assured I am he did not. But being oppressed with the present necessity, retaining the same love, will, and mind to chastity, and honest conversation, sought the next remedy that to him appeared able to have stayed the rage of that furious multitude (upon God I grant falleth no such necessity). But let the chief scope be observed, and we shall understand (that for divers respects) to will two things, whereof the one, is contrary to the other, is not to will contrariety. But let us come to God himself. God willeth mercy, justice, & all other virtues as before we have said, and these, he will at all times, and before all times. But is it not possible therefore, that he can will cruelty oppression, blood shedding, murder, and death? Who then sent Nabuchadnezer, to destroy not only the jews, but also the Moabites, and other nations? Who pronounced this sentence: Cursed be he that doth the Lords work negligently, and he that withdraweth his sword from blood? Zae. ●● Who did create the smiths, with their hammers to break down the horns which had dispersed Israel? And finally, who gave his own son to the cruel death? Who hath subjecteth the dear spouse of Christ jesus to afflictions, and temporal calamities? Dare you deny, but that it was and is, the eternal God, by whose good will all these things were appointed: and decreed, or were any of them, done against his almighty will? I think you will not so affirm. For the scripture witnesseth, that God gave his Son to the world, even of determined purpose, that he should die, or else who could have compelled his Majesty thereunto, if his will had been repugnant? Peter affirmeth that blessed are we that suffer for the name of Christ, adding this comfortable sentence: By them (that is by the persecutors) is the name of God blasphemed, but by you it is glorified. 1. Pet. 1. And therefore, let such saith he, as be afflicted by the will of God, lay down their souls in well doing, as in the hands of a faithful keeper. Rom. 8. Paul witnesseth that those whom God hath elected in Christ jesus, he hath also predestinate, and before appointed, to be like fashioned to the image of his own Son. Of which testimonies, it is plain that the grievous destruction, the abundance of the bloodshed among divers nations, the cruel death of Christ jesus, and the most fearful afflictions of his dearly beloved Church, did proceed from gods will, in so much as he did not only suffer them, but also, for most just causes, respects, and ends, which often before I have recited, he did will and appoint them: and yet in God was there no contrariety. For in the destruction of jerusalem, and of others, he had not respect simply to the ruin, and vastation of those places, but to his just judgements, which were provoked to take vengeance upon the multitude of their sins, which long he had suffered. When our Master Christ jesus did suffer, he had no delight in the cruelty of those enraged dogs, who did crucify him, which as he hated, so after he did most severely punish: but his pleasure and delight was in the redemption of man, which by none other sacrifice could have been perfected. And this day, and from the beginning he hath had no pleasure in the blood which is shed, neither in the tyranny which is used against his simple, and small flock, but because he will have the members like the head he doth a strange work, that he may do his own work, that is: he trieth and purgeth by fire our faith from all dross, and corruption of earthly affections. But in none of all these is there any contrariety, neither in God, neither in his will, neither in his counsel. for all things be disposed in such ordre, such consent and so conveniently, that his glory, and the perpetual comfort of his elect, doth finally, and assuredly follow. And even so it is in the apperant contrariety between you, and us, God, no doubt, will the one of us to affirm lies, to rail to blaspheme, and most unjustly to accuse the other: he will the other to sustain the cause of the truth patiently, to bear opprobrious words, and slanderoous reports, referring judgement unto him, who righteously, and in equity shall judge. Is there therefore any contrariety in gods will? none at al. For the divers respects, and ends being considered, the same consent shall now be found in this apperant contrariety, which hath remained from the increase of god's Church. For in all ages hath God willed his true Prophets with all boldness, and constancy, to sustain the cause of his simple verity, how odious that ever it was unto the world. And in their contrary, he hath raised false prophets to whom he hath given the efficacy of errors (for contrary purposes I grant) to wit that his people may be tried, his faithful servants exercised, and humbled, and finally that such as delight not in verity, may be given over to believe lies. Go to now and prove contrarieties. In the words of Zacharie you show your ignorance, & in collecting the mind of Oded, To Ye 6. you plainly declare your accustomed falsehood in farther stretching the mind of the Prophet, them his words will bear. Which thing I will first show by reciting the plain words, and so return to the Prophet Zacharie. There was in Samaria a Prophet of the Lords (saith the history) whose name was Oded, and he went out before the host that came to Samaria, and said unto them: 2. Pe●. 2● Behold because the Lord God of your fathers is wroth with juda, he hath delivered them into your hands, and ye have slain them in a rage that reacheth up to heaven. And now ye purpose to keep under the children of judah and jerusalem, as servants and had maids unto you: But are not you such that sins are with you before the Lord your God? These be his words in that matter, by the which if you be able to prove, that the Israelites did more, than God in his eternal counsel had appointed that they should do against juda, and jerusalam, we will patiently hear your probation, and reasons. If you say the Prophet reproved them of their cruelty, therefore they did more than God would: that doth not follow, for the just will of God must not be measured, by the cruelty of their fact, but by his own word, which doth affirm, that God gave over judah into, the hands of the king of Syria, & into the hands of the king of Israel, who did strike them with a great slaughter, and that for the sins, and abominable idolatry, which they, & Achas their king, had committed. We hear, and see affirmed by the holy Ghost, that God gave them over into the hands of their enemies, which thing he did willingly, and not by permission as you writ. Now to the place of Zachariah in which I say, you show gross, and wicked ignorance. For if your interpretation should be received, them of necessity it should follow, that in God their lacked power to impede, and stay the fury of those cruel men, who in their victory did so insolently rage. For if God would only have had the Jews gently corrected, & not to have been so severely, and rigorously destroyed: and yet, that against all manner, & sort of his will, they were so cruelly entreated, it can not be denied, but that the cruelty, and rage of the Babylonians was greater, than God could impede or stay, how blasphemous, and falls this is, the godly doth understand. O (say you) but so do the words of the text sound, for they say: I am greatly angry against the careless heathen. For I was but a little angry against Zion, but they have helped forward the affliction. I answer, that if ye were not more malicious than ignorant, ye might easily perceive, that those words were spoken, not to prove that any thing was done against Israel, and judah, which God had not appointed, and commanded, but to instruct the Prophet, that the will, and counsel of God, in punishing of his people, was far other, than was the will, & counsel of those that did destroy them: and that their long bondage should have an other end then either they themselves, or their enemies did understand. That nothing was done against that people, which the Lord had not appointed, yea and commanded, the same Prophet doth affirm, saying: my words & my statutes (he meaneth the threatenings, & punishments) which I have commanded my servants the Prophets, have they not, apprehended your fathers: in so much that they have converted, and said: Even as the Lord of Hosts hath determined, & appointed to do unto us, according to our ways, and according to our imaginations, so hath he done to us. Except that you will bely the holy Ghost, you must confess, that God had commanded, God had appointed, & determined so to punish his people. Yea Amos the Prophet feareth not to say: Shall there be evil in a city (that is any punishment or plague) and the Lord hath not done it? Why is he then offended (say you) against the proud, and careless heathen? I answer. Because they neither had respect to gods will, counsel; nor commandment, but to their own private commodity, and to the satisfying of their cruel appetites. For they did not destroy jerusalem, willing, or minding to punish the offences of the people committed against God: Neither yet did they carry them to Babylon of purpose that God might be glorified in their deliverance. No, they had determined the plain contrary. To wit, that jerusalem should remain desolate for ever: That judah should be y● inheritance of strange nations, and so should gods promise be false, and vain. And in very deed the jews themselves, in the extremity of their trouble, yea, and when the temple begun to be re-edified, were not free from these temptatios, and therefore doth God assure his Prophets, that his love was great towares Sion: That he would destroy, that nation, which intended their destruction: that he would deliver his people: that the warfare of jerusalem was at an end, that her iniquity was remitted: Isa. 40. that she had received double punishment for all her sins, from the hand of the Lord, and that therefore he would take the dolorous cup of anguish, and sorrow out of her hand, and would give it into the hands of those, that did trouble her. By which (and many more promises, and threatenings, God doth not mean that any thing was done in jerusalem, which he had not appointed. But by the one he did somewhat comfort the troubled hearts of his afflicted people: and by the other, he did show the cause, why he would punish those cruel murderers, whose service before he did use in punishing his people. Isa. 47. And this doth God most plainly witness in these words: I was wrath (saith the Lord) with my people I have polluted mine inheritance, and given them into thy hand (he speaketh unto Babylon) thou diddest show them no mercy, but diddest lay thy very heavy yoke upon the ancient: and thou saidst, I shallbe a Lady for ever, so that thou diddest not set thy mind to these things neither diddest thou remember the latter end thereof. Therefore now hear thou that art given to pleasures and dwellest careless, She saith in her heart▪ I am and none else: I shall not sit as a widow neither shall know the loss of children. Here of I say it is plain, that the punishment of god's people (as before I have proved) is his own appointment, and will. But because the punishers look to another end, therefore are they criminal before gods justice. In adducing both these examples, that is, of Israel punishing juda, and of the Babylonians destroying jerusalem, I find you in another most gross error, besides this which I have confuted. For you seem to affirm, that if the Israelites, and Babylonians had kept a measure, and had not exceeded the bounds, which God had appointed, and commanded, they had not sinned. For (say you) he willed the one, but permitted the other. Then in so far as they did his will they sinned not, but in so far as they exceeded his will, and did more which he would not, but only did suffer it, they sinned. This is your profound divinity, and godly meditations of God, of his justice, judgements, and works incomprehensible to man's reason. Are you able to prove that Nabuchadnezer came to jerusalem, or that therein he spilled, or his captains, and cruel soldiers, one drop of blood which God (in his eternal counsel) had not appointed, and willed. The testimonies of all Prophets rebuke your vanity. ●lle. ●1. Ezechiel saith: Thus saith the Lord. Behold I come against thee and will draw my sword out of his sheath, and cut of from thee both the righteous, and the wicked. Seeing then that I will cut of from y● both the righteous and wicked, therefore shall my sword go out of his sheath against all flesh from the South (meaning throw all the land) to the north, that all flesh may know, that I the Lord have drawn my sword out of his sheath, and it shall not return any more. Mark and consider how God attributeth all to himself, as after yet the Prophet more plainly speaketh saying: And he hath given it to be furbished that he may handle it: this sword is sharp, and is furbished that he may give it into the hand of the slayer etc. And I will power out mine indignation upon the in the fire of my wrath, and deliver the into the hand of beastly men, and skilful to destroy. Thou shalt be in the fire to be devoured thy blood shallbe in the mids of the land, and thou shalt be no more remembered, for I the Lord have spoken it. If these be the words of him that only suffereth, and willeth not things to be done, let the indifferent reader judge. Why they did sin notwithstanding that God in his counsel had willed, and appointed this severe punishment against his people, I have before declared. To wit, because that neither knew they gods will, counsel, nor commandment, neither yet had they any respect to obey God, or to fulfil his will. That Nabuchadnezar was ignorant of gods will, and counsel, is evident by that which is written in the same Prophet, in the place above expressed. For after he was come forth of his country, and was with his army far proceeded in his journey, he was uncertain whether he should go against Rabbath, the strong City of the sons of Ammon, or against jerusalem, and so committing the matter to his sorcerers, and divines (the lots being cast) he taketh his journey, against juda, and jerusalem. Whereof it is plain that he neither knew, nor understood by the motion of gods holy spirit, his holy will, neither yet commandment. And in destroying the City, and punishing the people, who will say that he or his servants hated sin, Pride, Cruelty, idolatry and abommations with the which he, and his hole realms were replenished? And the same do I say of the Israelites, who did not only sin, because they exceeded measure in punishing juda, but because that against god's law, & express commandment, they made unjust war against their brethren. They neither looked, neither yet ought they to have looked to gods secret counsel, but to his plain law, which commanded them to love their brethren, not to murder, not to spoil, not to covet etc. Against the which because they did offend, even in the first motion, & purpose of their warr● in gods presence they were murderers, thieves oppressors, & covetous persons, before that ever they set their foot forth of their houses. And so even that which he in his eternal counsel willed them to do, did no les displease him, as touching their wicked minds, them did that, which you affirm he suffered. For every transgression of his law, is before his justice odious, and sinful. If this can not correct your judgement, yet I am assured that it shall declare your vanity, who dare conclude that if the Israelites, & Babylonians had kept measure in punishing judah, that then they had not sinned. But the contrary I affirms and say, that the first thought, and purpose moving them to make war, was sin before God. Touching the permission of the father towards his prodigal son, & touching the ● son, which promised to go, and to labour in his father's vinyeard, & went not, I have before answered, that similitudes ought not further to be stretched, than the mind of the holy Ghost is to teach in the same. And in these places it is evident, that Christ teacheth not, how God is compelled to suffer many things which he will not, neither yet was it his mind in those similitudes, to teach us what difference there is between gods will, & his permission, but in y● one he teacheth, that in God there is mercy towards the sinner, yea & towards such a sinner, as unthanckfully, and inobediently hath departed from God, and that there be some proud children, who by reason of their continuance in their father's house, become disdan●ful that others should be preferred, or compared unto them. And therefore they grudge, they murmurre, and they envy the liberality of their father & his mercy showed to the son, that before appeared l●st. To whom this might be applied, besides the jews, and the Gentiles, ye are not ignorant. The other similitude doth teach us, that many in mouth say Lord, Lord, I go, I go, whose heart did never feel what is the reverence, and true obedience due to god's Majesty. We confess no less than jeremy doth write: To the 7. 8. 9 for we say, that God nether commanded such abominations, as his people committed, nether yet that ever they did enter in to his heart, that is they did never delight, nor please him nether yet did he ever will them for the actions themselves. But when you shallbe able to prove that it did not appertain to his just judgements to punish those idolaters with such blindness, that they became more cruel than brute beasts: then shall ye be more able to prove, that in no wise did God will that cruelty. God willed not those abominations for the murder committed and blood that was shed, for that he hated: & did punish: But he willed that a testimony should be left to the world in what blindness man falleth, when he declineth from God, and from his true honour, of which fearful example, you, and your sect ought to take heed. The Israelites in killing their children, Ironia● no doubt did even agree with gods will and were of one mind with his just judgements, as you declare yourselves to be, in spewing forth these horrible blasphemies, against his supreme Majesty. For as they leaving the plain will of God, declared in his law concerning their oblations, and making of sacrifice, in a blind zeal to honour God as they pretended with sacrifices more precious, and acceptable, (because their children to them were more dear than oxen, or bullocks) as they, I say in so doing leave to us a fearful example of gods judgements. So do you by these your horrible blasphemies, which in fury jesting, & skoffing ye vomit forth against God, his eternal truth, & against, the true professors of the same, and thus far I confess was gods most just will fulfilled in them, as also it is (& here after shallbe) fulfilled in you. That because they in the vanity of their imaginations, declined from gods will revealed, God of his justice would make them spectacles to all ages following, what were his●iudgementes (as I have said) against idolaters. Even so ye neither content that God shall use his creatures, as best serveth for his glory, nether yet that any justice be in his eternal God head to the which your reason can not attain, are given over by gods will into reprobate minds, thus horribly to blaspheme his Majesty: to admonish the generation present, and to come, that with greater sobriety, more fear, and reverence they speak, and think of those mysteries, that be incomprehensible unto man. I have before declared that no man leaving the will of God revealed in his word, doth either obey him, either yet please him, and so can he never be of one mind with God that committeth things forbidden by his word. But why that God forbiddeth iniquity to all (which also in all men he hateth) and yet that betwixt his vessels of mercy, and the vessels of wrath he maketh such difference, that to the one he giveth medicine and purgation against the natural venom, so effectually that it worketh their salvation in the end: and to the other he denieth that grace, Rom. 9 he will not make you, nor any of your faction, further of counsel, than he hath expressed in these words: He hath mercy on whom he will have mecie, and whom he will, him he maketh hard hearted. That sathan hath so enraged you that upon that doctrine which the holy Ghost most evidently doth teach, To the 9 ye dare gather this abominable absurdity, that God and whicked idolaters are both of one mind, that they both inwardly and owtwardly do obey him, ye have just cause not only to be ashamed, but also to quake, tremble, and fear, for that horrible blindness wherinto you are fallen, and for those just vengeances, which your pride doth crave of god's justice. Just art thou o● Lord in all thy works. To the IO Isa. 45 To your question, ask by what means should the Lord stir up the mind of the king of the Medes to destroy Babylon, who had before a desire ready bend to do the same, but by suffering, and permitting him. To this question (I say) doth ●sai the Prophet answer. Is●. 47 saying: Thus saith the Lord unto Cyrus his anointed, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him: therefore will I weaken the loins of kings, and open the doors before him, & the gates shall not be shut. I will go before thee and make the crooked straight, I will break the brazen doors, and burst the y●one bars. And I will give the treasures of darkness, and the things hid in secret places etc. If there be in you either modesty or aptness to learn, this is sufficient to instruct you, how God raised up his spirit, which before was ready bend to destroy Babylon, to wit, in giving unto him so prosperous success, that no impediment was able to resist, or withstand him. which thing God did not by and idle permission, or sufferance as ye imagine, but by his power which did effectually work in all that his journey, as the Prophet here, & in many other places doth witness. Which thing doth Cyrus himself also confess, Ezra. 1 in these words. The Lord God of heaven, hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth, & he hath commanded me to build him an house in jerusalem, which is in judah. And the holy Ghost affirmeth, that the Lord did stir up the spirit of Cyrus' king of Persia to cause this proclamation to be made. Dare you say that to give all the kingdoms of the earth to one man, is nothing else but to suffer him to rive, and possess them at his appetites? Dan. 2 Daniel affirmeth the contrary saying: The name of God be praised for ever and ●uer: for wisdom and strength are his. And he changeth the times and seasons: he taketh away kings: he setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom to the wise, and understanding to those that understand etc. And David also saith. he that raiseth the needy out of the dust and lifteth up the poor out of the dung, that he may set him with the princes, even with the princes of his people. And therefore, because the holy Ghost giveth to god's prudence, and working power, that which you most wickedly attribute to his permission, or idle sufferance, I fear not to say, that as God stirred up Cyrus' spirit effectually moving it to give liberty, and commandment to his people to return to jerusalem, and to restore the temple, so did he also stir up his spirit in enterprising his first journey against Babylon, in taking from him all fear indewing him with an heroical, Isa. 45 and bold spirit, (as God himself saith: I girded the though thou hast not known me) and giving to him so fortunate success, that all was subject to his empire. And therefore albeit, ten thousand times ye will ask: What needeth God to mou● the wicked to do wickedly, which, being given over of God, imagineth nothing but wickedness, & his master the devil sleepeth never? Yet will I answer, that as to destroy Babylon, in so far as it was gods work, it was no wicked deed, but his most just judgement. So albeit Cyrus had never been so much enraged against Chaldea, either by his own pride, either yet by sathan, that nether of both could have brought any thing to pass, except that the Lord had decreed to perform his work in Babylon, I●r. 51 as he himself did threaten, saying: Behold, I come unto the ô thou destroying mountain, saith the Lord, which destroyest all the earth, I will stretch out mine hand upon thee and roll the down from the rocks, and will make the a burnt mountain. They shall not take of the a stone for a corner, nor a stone for foundations, but thou shalt be destroyed for ever, saith the Lord etc. If you see nothing in these and other such threatenings of God, but a permission only, I can not cease to say that you are more than blind. But now to that which followeth in these words. THE ADVERSARY. To that which ye allege of the Prophet Isai: The●● arguments. harden the hearts of this people etc. The 43. section. for the better understanding of tha● place. we must note that which is written in the chapter going afore: how the Lord had chosen this people and planted them as a vinyeard and called all Israel to be judge betwixt him and his vineyard, what more could have been done for it, than he had done, and yet when he looked, for fruit of equity and righteousness, to there was wrong, and misery, where upon followed their indura●s●, for they were hardened of the lord, that is, as afor is sade, God gave them over, to their own hearts lust's. Further where he saith to the Prophet, hardē their hearts, we must always consider that their hearts were already hardened. which their wickedness did plainly declare. yet hath he commanded the Prophet to do his office, not to make their hearts hard. for that belongeth only to God, who giving them over to their hearts lusts hath already hardened them, but the office of a Prophet was to, show them the hardness of their har●es so when he sayeth harden their hearts, it is as much, as show and declare unto them the hardness of their hearts. Levi. 13 The like phrase of speech have we in Le●it. 13. If the priest see that the scab is grown abroad in the skim, the priest shall make him unclean. how should the priest make him unclean, who is already unclean, and whose flesh he durst not touch, but by declaring him to be unclean. So how should the Prophet harden their hearts whose hearts were hardened already, and whose hearts he could not touch, but by declaring ●hem to be hard hear●ed. So saith the Lord to jeremy, drive this people away, that they may go out of my sight, some to death, some to the sword, some to hunger some to captiu●t●e, this was not the office of the Prophet, which the Caldes executed, but the Prophet was here commanded, jere. 15 to show that for their wickedness, they should be driven away some to death, some to the sword, some to hunger and some to captivity. So jeremy took the cup out of the lords hand, and made all people drink thereof unto whom the Lord sent him, where there be mo nations reckoned, then ever Jeremy did see with his corporal eyes: this place therefore must be understand, as the others conform to the office of the Prophet, which was to show them that for their wickedness they should drink of the cupp● of the lords wrath which appeareth more plainly, by that which followeth, where he sayeth if they will not receaus the cup of thy hand and drink it, that is if they will not take warning by the etc. This interpretation is conform to the phrase of the scripture, nether is it contrary to any part of the word. but if any man hath a better understanding, let him use it to the glory of God. Of these things already spoken ●t is sufficiently proved, that God hath reprobat, and cast away no man before the foundation of the world, but as he hath crea●ed man like unto his own image, so he will the death of none, but that all should be saved, nether is he ●he author or mover to any evil, which with long patience suffereth wickedness, to draw men to repentance, nether willeth he any thing contrary, to that which is expressed in his word. for at God is constant and immutable, of this his holy will he hache uttered and declared unto man to know, the rest reserved he unto him se●f, for as much as no man is able to comprehend the profundity and depth thereof, therefore ought no man to go about to prove or improve any thing by that which is unknown to him, wherefore they which affirm, and teach that God hath orde●ned men a fore the foundation of the world to be damned so that by no means they can be saved, for such is his secret will, not with standing be declareth the contrary in h●s word, they must needs have an evil opinion of God, and therefore ought all men of duty to abhor their devilish doctrine. And because I have said that they have an evil opinion of God, I have added here a description of ●hose careless libertines ●●d conform to their doctrine in all points, and a description of the true God, whereby it may appear even unto the simple how abominable their doctrine and opinion in this matter is. ANSWER. What soever shallbe red in the hole scriptures, To the ● you shall never be able to prove that in these words of isaiah, (Go, and harden the hearts of this people) is nothing else meant, but that the Prophet was only commanded to declare unto them their blindness, and hardness of heart. for where soever mention is made of the difference betwixt the elect, and the reprobate, this virtue is attributed to the word, that it doth illuminate the eyes, and mollify the hearts of the one, by the power of the holy Ghost: and by the contrary that it doth excecate, and more harden the other by reason of their corrupt nature, to the which they are justly left. The Evangelist saint john making mention, that the jews did not believe in Christ jesus, albeit that they had seen his wondrous works, addeth this cause: therefore (saith he) they could not believe, john 12 because Isaiah had said: He hath blinded their eyes, & hardened their hearts, that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand in their hearts, and be converted, that I may heal them. Here doth the Evangelist attribute to the Prophet, not only that he declared their blindness, but that God by him did in verydede justly blind their eyes, and harden their hearts. But this shall more plainly appear in examining the reasons, and scriptures which ye allege for proof of your interpretation. First say you, their hearts were already hardened which their wickedness did plainly declare, yet hath he commanded the Prophet to do his office not to make their hearts hard, for that belongeth only to God who giving them over to their hearts lusts he already hardened them. And so ye conclude that the Prophet did only declare unto them the hardness of their hearts. Answer We do not deny but that their hearts were hardened before, and that justly for their iniquities sake they were given over to their hearts lusts. But whether they were so hardened before the preaching of the Prophet, that after they could be not harder, I greatly doubt. Yea I nothing doubt to affirm, but that even as the clay by the heat of the Sun, becometh more hard, and more hard, or as the branch cut of the natural stock doth more & more whither, until that no kind of sap, nor moisture doth remain, even so I say do the reprobate from time, to time become more obstinate, more blind, more hard, and more cruel, and that by the word, which doth plainly rebuke their iniquity, and evidently declare whose children their are. Examples in scripture hereof are manifest: Some lenity, and gentleness appeared in Pharaoh, toward the people of Israel before that Moses, at god's commandment required their liberty. But that will, and word of God commanding him to let his people go and serve God in the wilderness, did so quickly work in the heart of that reprobate, Exo. 5. ● that the greater hardness of his heart, was suddenly felt by the Israelites, to their great grief and grudging disconfort. In the people of Israel, in their elders, Priests, and counsel, appeared some face of justice, when Stephan was accused, before that he pronounced these words: ye stiff-necked, and uncircumcised in heart, and ears, you have ever resisted, the holy Ghost, even as your fathers have resisted, Act. 7 so do you: whom of the Prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them, which showed before of the coming of that just, whom ye have now betrayed, & murdered. Before this sentence (I say) there appeared some face of justice, but what ensued the holy Ghost doth witness, saying: when they heard these things their hearts braced for anger and they gnashed at him with their tethe. And after also that he gave a more plain confession of Christ jesus, of his exaltation, glory, power, and Majesty, they cried out with a great voice, they stopped their ears, they as wolves enraged rushed upon him, with one consent, and so without all order of justice, did stone him to death. If ye confess not that the word of God, proceeding from the mouth of Stephen, did not more harden them, who no doubt were hardened before, you deny a truth that is more than evident. divers places more I might adduce for the same purpose, but (having respect to brevity) I stand content with th●se two, which I doubt nothing, are sufficient to prove, that men, that be already hardened, yet by the coming of the plain word, which rebuketh their iniquity, they become more hard. As the owl being blind, even when she appeareth to see best in the night season, but yet in the day time, she is more blinded, bacause that the weakness of her eyes, can not abide the bright beams of the sun. And even so it is with the reprobate, they are always blind, and hard heard, but when the light of God doth most plainly shine before them or when they are called from iniquititie to virtue, then becometh the word of glad tidings to them, a very savour of death, by the which, they are both more blinded, and more hardened. And so in your first reason we descent from you in that, that you seem to affirm, that because the reprobate are once hardened, therefore they can be no more hardened. Your second reason is, that because it belongeth to God only to make hard their hearts, th●t therefore there resteth nothing to the Prophets, but to show unto them the hardness of their hearts. I am glad that once ye will confess that it is nothing repugning to gods good nature, Answer for just causes, to harden the heart, and to make blind the eyes of the reprobate. But that therefore nothing resteth to the Prophets or Apostles, but only to declare unto men their hardness I can not admit. For we do find that God doth so communicate his power with his true messengers, and ambassadors, that what soever they louse in earth, he doth louse in the heaven, & what soever they bind in earth, he bindeth in heaven, whose sins they remit, they are remitted, & whose sins they retain, they are retained. The Lord himself saith unto jeremy: I●re. ● Behold I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have ordained thee above nations, and kingdoms, that thou mayest root out, destroy, & scatter, and that thou mayst also build up, and plant. And unto Paul it was said: And now I shall deliver the from the nations, to the which I send thee that thou mayst open the eyes of those that be blind, that they may convert from darkness unto light, and from the power of fathan unto God. These words do witness that the effectual power of God doth work with the word, which he putteth in the mouths of his true messengers, in so much that either it doth edify, lighten, or mollify to salvation, or else it doth destroy, darken, and harden. For the word of God is of the nature of Christ jesus, & he is not only come to illuminate, and to raise up, but also to make blind, and to beat down, as he himself doth witness, saying, I am come to judgement into this world, that those that see not shall see & that those that see shallbe blind. And Simeon saith: Luke. Ma●. 21 Behold this is he that is put in resurrection, & in ruin of many in Israel. In so much, that upon whom that stone of offence falleth, it shall burst him to powder. And therefore we can not admit that the ministery of his blessed word preached, or published by his faithful messengers, be nothing else but a simple declaration what men be. No, we know that it is the power of God to salvation of all those that believe, that the message of reconciliation is put in their mouths, that the word which they preach, hath such efficacy, & strength that it divideth asunder the joints, & sinews, the bones from the mary, that the weapons of their warfare are not carnal, 1. Co. 1●. but are power in God to the beating down of all strong holds, by the which, the true messengers beat down all counsels, & all height which is raised up against the knowledge of God, by the which also they lead into bondage all cogitations to obey Christ. we know further that they have vengeance in readiness against all inobedience. Apo. 10 That fire passeth forth of their mouths which devoureth their enemies, that they have power to shut the heaven that rain descend not in the days of their prophecy. That god's power both in the one sort, and in the other, is contained with his word even preached, pronounced, and fore spoken by his messengers, do all examples in gods scriptures witness. At the prayer, 3. King. 18 and prophecy of Elias was the heeaven both shut, and opened: fire descended from heaven, & consumed those ungodly soldiers with their captains. At the curse of Eliseus did bears devour 〈◊〉 children that mocked him. 4. Kin. 1 The words of Isai, jeremy, and Ezechiel, albeit (for the time that they spoke) they were contemned, yet had they such force, and effect, that no strength was able to gainstand that, which they had pronounced. At Peter's word, Ananias, and Saphira did suddenly die. Paul by his sentence made Elimas the sorcerer blind, and so forth, the examples be almost without number, that declare that gods power is joined with his word, not only in saving (which I think you will admit) but also in punishing & destroying. If you think it fearful that gods holy word shall have this power, and effect, to kill, to blind, and to harden. Remember first, the severe judgements of God against sin, and often call to mind that the fault, nor chief cause is not in the word, but in the subject, and person, in whom it falleth. The word falling in to the heart of the elect, doth mollify, & illuminate, as before is said, but falling in to the heart of the reprobate, it doth harden & more excecate the same, by reason of the quality, and incurable corruption of the person And thus in your second reason, we do utterly dissent from you● & fear not to affirm, that gods true Prophets, & messingets, do not only declare what men be● but that by the word, which is committed to their charge, effectually they work either light, To the 2. 3. 4. or darkness, life, or death, yea salvation, or damnation. The text of Leviticus serveth you nothing, and the text of jeremy is expressly against you. For the hiegh Priest is not commanded to go to a man, in whom no leprosy appeared, and to pronounce, what after shall become of him: but the man in whom there is apperant signs of lepro●ie, is commanded to be led to the Priests, who are commanded to pronounce according to the signs which they see. Considre I beseech you, the difference between the office of the one, & the office of that other● the sentence of the one, and the sentence of the other, the one (that is the Priests) go not, neither are they sent, to seek those that have appearance, or suspicion of leprosy. But the Prophet is sent by God, to them that then was called the people of God, in whom no man could have suspected such blindness, such hardness of heart, & such rebellion as the Prophet is commanded to threaten. The Priests did not nor might not pronounce sentence against a man, in whom manifest signs of leprosy appeared not, yea trial must be taken, whether it be leprosy, or not: But the Prophet is commanded to go to that people, who held themselves clean, and before all trial, to pronounce that sharp sentence, you shall hear with your ears, and shall not understand, you shall plainly see, and yet shall not perceive, the heart of this people is hardened. Was there anysuch commandment or charge given to the priests? Might any of them have said, to any man that appeared to be clean, etc. whole, thou shalt be leprous, I pronounce the sentence which thou shalt not escape? I trust not. Then for the diversity as well of their offices, as of the sentences which they pronounced the phrases must be divers. Where ye affirm that the Prophet could not touch their hearts, but by declaring them to be hard hearted, ye seem not to understand what is the virtue and power of god's word pronounced even by the mouth of man, which (as before we have declared) pierceth to the deepest secret that lieth within the heart. Yea and worketh that thing, which the Pro phete pronounceth, and speaketh, how unapperant that ever it be to man's reason, or how stoutly and stubbornly that ever the wicked resist. Did not the words of Elias spoken unto Achab aftre the murdering of Naboth, touch his heart? yes, the very hypocrite himself had some sense and feeling of gods just wrath. And both he and his posterity, for all his princely pomp, did after feel the verity of them. To wit dogs did lick his blood, the flesh of jesabel was eaten by dogs, his children, and hole posterity were rooted out of Israel. And thus did the words of the Prophet touch his heart (in the time when they were spoken) with a certain fear, stupidity, and trembling. which words were after of such power, strength, and verity, that no male children were left alive to Achab in Israel. And the same is true of jeremies' wordes● & sentence spoken against divers nations, whose faces albeit he never saw, yet did he so potently touch their hearts, that how soever they despised his threatenings, yet was no word vainly spoken, but in effect was every thing complete, as he pronounced. And wonder it is that ye are ignorant in this virtue of god's word, seeing that ye confess that jeremy took the cup from the lords hand, lere. 25 which he was commanded to give to all nations, that they might drink the cup of the lords wrath, saying unto them: Drink, & be drucken, and spew, and fall, and rise no more, because of the sword which I will send among you. Was this I pray you a simple declarations or was it not rather a sentence & decree so effectual, that albeit nether Babylon, nether any other proud and whicked nation would for that time believe it, yet came it most effectually to pass? And I say that these words of jeremy do manifestly repugn to your interpretation, & do sufficiently prove that those words spoken to Isai, are otherwise to be understand, then that he was commanded only to declare what the people were. For as the words of jeremy had this effect, that according as he spoke, so came the destruction upon those proud nations, so likewise had the words of God spoken to Isai, the same effect, which he pronounced. To the one he said, thou shalt give unto them the cup of my wrath, that they may drink it. The Prophet without fear did obey his commandment, and God did faithfully perform, what so ever his messenger had pronounced. Even so did God command Isai to blind, and harden, that stubborn, and rebellious generation of the jews, by the preaching of his Law, and by rebuking of their manifest impiety. And so he did, God working all to his glory, according to his eternal purpose. And this because your interpretation is not sufficiently confirmed by any phrase of the scripture, which ye have alleged and also because it repugneth to the scriptures which before I have adduced, To the 5 6. 7. 8. we can not admit it. Against your complexion or Epilogue, which is nothing but a superfluous repetition of those things, which sufficiently ye have not proved (although you so brag) we say, that as God by his eternal word, and power infinite, hath created all things, so hath he by his wisdom incomprehensible so disposed all thinges●, that as nothing was created for the self, so was nothing the appointer of the self to serve God, as his glory required. But he in his eternal counsel appointed the end to every creature, to the which they shall once attain, by such means, as he most justly hath appointed. And therefore seeing his glory doth no less require his just judgements, than his superabundant mercy to be known, he hath in his eternal counsel elected, some, and rejected others, even before the foundations of the world. And albeit he created man after his own image, yet did God never determine that mankind should stand in Adam, but his just counsel and purpose was that all men should fall in Adam, that the elect might know the price of their salvation Christ jesus, in whom they were elected, before that in Adam actualy they did fall, or were created. And so God willing to make his glory to shine in all, hath prepared some vessels of mercy, and some of wrath. to the one he hath freely given life everlasting in Christ jesus his son. The other he hath for just causes so rejected, that albeit with long patience, he suffereth their manifest rebellion, yet in the final judgement he shall command them to go to the fire that never shallbe quenched. And this will and counsel of God is neither secret, nor hid from his Church, but is in his word most manifestly revealed: and therefore of it we fear not to affirm, that even in the first promise, and ever since hath God made a plain distinction betwixt the elect, and the reprobate, so that the purpose and counsel, which before was hid in God, was in time manifested unto man. Which will and counsel of God (because it is constant and immutable, like as God himself is) must of necessity take effect, and therefore I boldly affirm, that neither can any whom God in his eternal purpose hath reprobated, become the elect, and so be saved, neither yet can any of Christ's elect number to life everlasting, be reprobated, and so come to final perdition. We further say, that albeit gods will in the self, be one, to wit, the manifestation of his own glory, yet as touching his creatures it hath divers respects, for God will the salvation of some, and he also will the just condemnation of others. And the contrary of this doth God never declare in his word, but rather doth most plainly reveal it. And therefore this his godly will is not called secret, as that it is not expressed in his word: but because that in his word there is no cause assigned (gods good will only excepted) why he hath chosen some, and rejected others. And this knowledge is so necessary to a Christian, that without the same, ca the heart of man never be sufficiently subjecteth unto God, nether can he rendre unto him due praise and honour, except that he acknowledge, and confess. that God himself hath made difference, betwixt him, & others. To your odious terms, & despiteful railing, I briefly say at this time: To the 8. THE LORD shall judge. To my knowledge there resteth no notable scripture, which ye have alleged (or rather abused) for confirmation of your error which is not sufficiently answered, two places excepted. The one is of Ezechiel, affirmig that God will not the death of a sinner, the other containeth the words of Paul saying: God will all men to be saved, which places because you recite them here in the description of him, whom you call the true God I thought it expedient to delay till this opportunity, to the end that having to fight (as it were face, to face) with the devil himself, I might have some comfort of my God in entreating some place of his holy scriptures. Thus you proceed with a mouth most execrable, and blasphemous. THE ADVERSARY, The properties of the God of the careless by necessity. The 44. section Their god's wrath exced●th all his works for he hath reprobate the most part of the world, afore the foundation of the world. be is slow unto mercy and ready to wrath, for he will not be entreated to save any of them whom he bathe reprobate afore, but of necessity do, what they can, they must be damned, ne●ther is he omnipotent, which may do, and leave undone▪ what pleaseth him, for he is bound ●y ●is own absolute ordinance and infallible foresight to do only all things as they be done, and because 〈◊〉 so pleased him to she we his power & strength he stirred up Pharaoh & many more to do wickedly ●e giveth wicked commandment, and evil thoughts to Semei, and many other. And thereafter plagued them for their labour, only because they were wicked instruments to work his will for he made them naughty vessels to commit all abomination, neither could they choose but work wickedly being his vessels of wrath: he hath two wills, ●ne contrary to an other, for he saith one thing and thinke●h another. he is worse then the devil, for not only tempteth ●e to do evil, but compelleth by immutable fore ordinance and secret will without which, no thing can be do●●e. he is the prince of darkness, for from him come evil thoughts, which are darkness. ANSWER. Because that now I have to do not only with a blasphemer, but even (as it were) with a devil incarnate, my first and chief defence, is to say, the Lord put silence to the ô Satan. The Lord confound thy despiteful counsels by the which thou studiest to pervert the righteous way of the eternal God. But now of thee, To the 1 o blasphemous mouth, I ask, if thou be able to forge to thee, and to thy pestilent facti●, an other God, then that God who most justly did drown, and destroy by water, all living creatures in earth, except so many, as were preserved in the ark with Noah who also did destroy by fire from heaven Sodom, and Gomorra, with the cities adjacent, and the hole inhabitants of the same (Lot and his two daughters only reserved.) who further by the space of four thousand years, did suffer all nations to walk in their own ways, reveling only his good will, and the light of his word, to the seed of Abraham (to those that descended of jacob I mean) Canst thou I say forge to thyself another God, than this eternal majesty of our God whom we do reverence, in whom we trust, and most steadfastly believe, whose Son Christ jesus we preach to be the only saviour of his Church, and whose eternal verity we maintain, not only against jew, Turk, and Papist, but also against you enraged anabaptists, who can admit in God no justice, which is not subject to the reach of your reason? Darest thou, and thy conspiracy stand up, and accuse God of cruelty, because that in these his works, thou canst not deny, but that more were punished, then were preserved, more were left in darkness, than were called to the true light? Shall not his mercy exceed all his works, except that he save the Devil, and those that justly be reprobated as he is? Stoop Satan under the empire of our Sovereign God, To the 2. whose will is so free, that nothing is able to constrain, or bind it. For that is only liberty, that is not subject to mutability, to the inconstancy or appetites of others, What is liberty. as most blasphemously you would imagine God to be in his election and most just reprobation: by the which in despite of Satan, To the 3 of thee his slave, and son, and of all thy sect, he will declare his glory, as well in punishing with torments for ever such blasphemers, as you be, as in showing the riches of his glory to the members of his dear Son, who only depend upon Christ jesus, and upon his justice. To purge my God from that injustice, To the 4. 5. or from those absurdities, which thou wouldest impute upon his eternal majesty, I will ●ot labour, lest that either I should seem to doubt of our own cause, either yet to be solicit, for the defence of our eternal God. And therefore seeing that ye declare yourselves not men ignorant, willing to jearne, but devils enraged against God, against his eternal, and infinite justice, as I began, so do I finish. The Lord confound thee Satan. The Lord confound you enraged dogs, which so impudently dare bark, against the most just judgements of God. And thus leaving you to the hands of him, who sodanely shall revenge his justice from your blasphemies. For the cause of the Simple I say, First, that most maliciously ye accuse us, as that we should affirm God to be slow to mercy, and ready to wrath, which blasphemy we protest before God, before his holy Angels in heaven; and before his Church here in earth, did never enter into our heart. For the contrary thereof we daily see, and perceive, not only in ourselves, to whom most mercifully he remitteth the multitude of our sins, but also in the most cruel enemies of his Church. We do not define, what number God hath elected to life, nether yet what number presently God hath reprobated. Only we stand content, with that, which the holy Ghost hath revealed openly, to wit that their be both elect, and reprobate. That the elect can not finally perish, nether yet that the reprobate can ever be saved, we constantly affirm. But we add the causes, to wit that because the one sort is given to Christ jesus by the free gift of God his father, before all times: therefore in time they come unto him, by power of whose spirit, they are regenerate, their darkness is expelled, and from virtue, they proceed to virtue, till finally they attain to the glory promised. As the other sort is left in their own corruption, so can they do nothing but obey their father the devil, in whose bondage they justly are left. And so where ye burden us, that we say, let the reprobate do what they can, yet they must be damned, ye do most shamefully bely us. For we say, and teach, that who so ever declineth from evil, and constantly to the end doth good, shall most certainly be saved. But our doctrine is thi●, that because the reprobate have not the spirit of regeneration, therefore they can not do those works that be acceptable before God. How God is almighty, and omnipotent, we have before confessed, to wit, that as he in his eternal wisdom foreseeth, and appointeth all things, so doth his power put all things in execution, how, and when it best pleaseth him. Neither can his wisdom, will, nor counsels be subject to any mutability, unstableness, or change. For if it so were then his godly will and counsels, did not depend upon himself, but upon his creatures, which is more than absurd. Nether to Pharaoh, neither to Semei, neither yet to any other reprobate, did, or doth God give, either wicked commandment or evil thought. But those wicked thoughts, and evil motions, which be in them of their evil nature, and are stirred up by the instigation of the devil, as he doth, not purge them, so doth his wisdom use them well to his own glory, to the exercise of his children, and to the comfort of his Church. In so much that the very tyranny of Pharaoh, the cursing of Semei, and the incest of Absalon in so far as they were gods works, they were just, and holy, because they were just punishments of their sins, an exercise for his children, and some part also of his fatherly correction for their offences. To the rest of your vanity, I will not answer, not because I fear your sophistical subtility, but because I will not (except that yet I be further provoked) nether by tongue, nether yet by pen once name or express your horrible blasphemies. Which manifestly do witness and declare, that you (as dogs enraged) without all reverence, do bark against God, because his works do surmount your capacity. The Lord speedyly call you to repentance, or else so bridle your venomous tongues, that they be not able further to infect. Now to the rest. THE ADVERSARY. The properties of the true God, The 45. section. God his mercy exceedeth all his works he hath made man like to his own image in Christ jesus, in whom is no damnation, he is sl●we unto wrath and ready to foregive, he willbe entreated of all so that he biddeth all men every where to repent, and offereth faith to all men he is omnipotent and may do, and leave undone, what so ever shallbe his good pleasure, neither is it his pleasure & will, that eiher Pharao, Semei, or any other do sin and come to destruction, for he willeth the death of no creature, but willeth all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth, he hath but one will which is ever only good, revealed in his word to them that fear him and keep his commandements, nether hath he any secret will contrary to this, but will perform what so ever goeth out● of his mouth, he tempteth no man to sin he is the further of light, and cometh to destroy the works of the careless libertynes God, for be abhorreth all wickedness, and all wicked doers. ANSWER. In this description of your God (whom you do term the true God) I do wonder of three things. First that in this your description ye descent from your great angel Castalio. secondly how it is that ye have forgotten yourselves: And last why ye omit these properties, which the scriptures do no less attribute to God, than any that you allege. Your master, and chief champion Castalio (now left for your comfort) in the description of his God thus writeth. But that God whom both nature, and reason, and the scriptures do teach, is ready to mercy, and slow to wrath, who hath created man, of whom all men are borne, to his own image, like to himself, that he should place him in Paradise, and give to him the blessed life. This God will that all men be saved, and that none perish, and therefore he hath sent his Son into the earth, that justice might superabound, where so ever sin hath abounded, the light of whose justice, doth illuminate every man, that cometh in to this world. Wonder it is I say that ye who so constantly have followed your master in all this your work, have dissented from him, or at least omitted his words, in these two points, which in this case be principal. For, first by his description he will that nature, and reason, shall no les teach you and your faction, God, then shall the scriptures. So that he, whose works you be not able to comprehend by nature, and reason, shall not be to you the true God. And secondarily, that except he will all to be saved: and that the light of his sons justice do so illuminate all men coming into this world, that where so ever sin hath abounded, there must justice superabound, that to you likewise he be no God. These be two chief points in this controversy. For we constantly affirm, that the brightness of our God doth so blind nature, and reason (as now they be corrupted) that the natural man can never attain to those things, which appertain to God, to the knowledge of his will, nether yet to his true honour. For we know that the world hath not known God, by wisdom, but thinking themselves most wise, have becomen most vain, in so much that they have worshipped the creatures, more than the Creator. And thus believe we that nature, and reason, are not only unable to lead us to the true knowledge of God, by the which we may attain to life euerlastig, but also we affirm, that they have been maistresses of all errors, and idolatry. And therefore say we that nature, and reason, do lead men from the true God, but are never able to teach us, nether to express to us the eternal, the true, and everliving God the father of our Lord jesus Christ. Further we doubt not to embrace, to believe, to reverence and to honour the majesty of our God, who hath made division, betwixt one sort of men, and an other, as plainly before we have proved. These being two chief points, in this controversy, great wonder it is, that of them ye make no express mention (as Castalio doth) in this your description. Is it because you are ashamed that such darkness, and such gross ignorance should be in your great angel of light? Just cause no doubt have both you, and he to be ashamed of your foolish imaginations. But yet I fear an other thing more, which is this. That suddenly you will not commit the great, and secret mysteries of your profession to your rude scholars. For it might perchance offend them, if at the first ye should affirm (as in your writings I can show) that saint Paul taught a more perfect way to his scholars in secret, The secret doctrine of Anabaptists than that which he committed to writing, that Christ is not the eternal Son of the eternal God, that the Godhead of the holy Ghost is but man's imaginations, that Christ's kingdom shall so flourish, that wicked men shall utterly be suppressed even in this life, that Christ's justice availeth nothing▪ except man have a personal, & perfect justice within himself, that man may fulfil and obey gods holy Law, and that Christ hath no prerogative above his brethren, except this, that he is called the first begotten: I omit things much more absurd, because I will not offend the ears of the godly. These things I say you do not suddenly open to your scholars, but in the beginning with pleasant persuasions of good life, of mortification, of the power of the spirit (which rightly placed is a doctrine most necessary) ye inflamed their hearts with a a vain confidence, of their own power, strength, and justice. And thereafter ye dissuade them from all exercises, which may put them in mind of sin, and imperfection, which remaineth in man. For nether will ye that they frequent the public preaching of the word, neither yet the administration of Christ's sacraments. For such things to your perfect men are nothing necessary. But to be short, in the end ye bring them to the plain contempt of gods free graces offered, & given to his elect in Christ jesus. For in the end these be your blasphemous voices openly affirmed, in your privy assemblies: what is our joy? but that we feel no sin abiding in us: what is our comfort, but that we be able to fulfil the law? and what is our rejoicing? but that we have a justice perfect in ourselves. And thus seeking to establish your own justice, nether can you, nor your scholars be subject to the justice of God. But (omittig this) I return to your deceitful craft, ye dare not in express words affirm the vain description of your master's God, but yet covertly ye say as much (as after shall appear): in which thing, as ye declare yourselves ingrate and unthankful, that will not support your reverend master in this his battle, which your open patrociny and plain defence, so do ye show your selves most unworthy of credit amongst gods children. For who can credit those teachers, that in the beginning and for their foundation, & principals join together darkness, and light, lies, and verity, yea that begin with a manifest untruth (as doth your Master Castalio) affirming, that nature, and reason, do teach the true God unto us, which is a manifest lie, as before we have proved. If ye say, he addeth also that the scriptures do teach God unto us: I answer that the more is his impudency, and more dangerous is his venom. For what impudency is it, to prefer corrupt nature, and blind reason to gods scriptures, in such manifestation of God, as our salvation requireth? Did Moses, Isai, or Christ jesus will the ignorant to search nature, or to consult with reason who should be the Messiah promised? or did they not always send such as lacked light to the word which was revealed, to the law, and to the Prophets, and to the scriptures, which did bear record of Christ jesus, who is the only way, by the which men come to the true knowledge of the Father? True it is that the Gentiles by contemplation of the creatures, attained to that knowledge, that there was a God: but how little this knowledge served for their salvation the Apostle doth witness. And therefore I say that your Master is more than impudent, vt dare prefer nature, and reason, to gods scriptures. And further his venom (in so saying) is more dangerous, then if plainly he had affirmed, that nature, & reason alone had been sufficient to have instructed man in all things appertaining to salvation. For so declaring himself the simple should have avoided that error, as a pestilence most pernicious. But now in joining together those things which God hath so manifestly divided, as he hath divided light from darkness, he doth nothing else, but as a traitorous murderer mix, and mingle poison, with sweet lyquore. For in joining nature, and reason, with gods scriptures, in the manifestation of God to man's salvation, he doth plainly witness, that the natural man may boldly pronounce that those works be none of gods, whereof reason can not see a just cause, why so they should be wrought. For the fall of Adam say you, and, the induration of Pharaoh, the deceiving of Achab, and such others, were none of gods works. But they came by his permission and why so? Because the natural man can not see how such works can agree, with god's goodness, and justice. And thus ye deny him to be the true God, who doth not lay before the blindness of your reason all his works, that they by her judgement, may be justified, or condemned. O blasphemous mouths, dare ye deny him to be the true God, of whom Moses, job, David and Paul affirm: that his secrets do appertain to himself? that he will not make account to man of all his works. That his counsels are incomprehensible, his judgements a great depth, and his ways unsearchable. Thus much for that which ye omit of your masters words in his description, which I now admonish, lest after ye should trouble the simple, with these your vanities, which from time, to time, ye foster, and spread abroad. Now to the second, which I will but only touch, to put you in mind, that in doctrine, ye are not constant: for before ye have affirmed, In the ●. section, 1. argument. that we did all stand in Adam, before that we did fall. For none (say you) falleth, but he that standeth: If we did all stand, than were we all predestinate to life. And after: As we were all created in one man, that is in Adam, In the 9 section 1. argument. so were we all created in one estate, that is after the image of God. Of which places it is plain, that ye understand, that in Adam we were created to god's image, in Adam we were elected, and in Adam we were placed in paradise, which you call the blessed life. But here you change your tune, and say: He hath made man like to his own image in Christ jesus, in whom is no damnation. What should be the cause of this your sudden recantation, and alteration of your sentence, I can not well conjecture, except it be this: That because experience doth convict you, that by Adam we are all wounded to death, that therefore you would all should receive life by Christ jesus. And that doth your master affirm in bold, and evident words, saying: This God will all men to be saved, and that none shall perish: and therefore hath he sent his Son, into the earth whose justice should superabound, where so ever sin hath abounded. This doth your master boldly affirm (because he wrote to his practised soldiers) that which ye do in dark words persuade. But how vain be both your persuasions, shall shortly appear, by examining the scriptures by you both alleged. He groundeth his error upon the words of Paul plainly falsified, and of john the Evangelist, whom he applieth not rightly. If you think me bold that thus do accuse your master, & great angel, of falsifying gods scriptures, hear my proof, and then judge. He saith wheresoever sin hath abounded there hath grace super abounded. Which words the Apostle doth not speak, but saith: where sin hath abounded: there hath grace more abounded, which proposition is most true, as it is most comfortable. For in Adam, David, Peter, and in all other gods elect children did, and doth sin abound, as the Apostle proveth all to have sinned, and to have need of god's glory. But in them did grace more abound, by the which they were delivered from the multitude of sins. But as your proposition is not expressed by the Apostle, so it is most false, which is most easy to be proved. For in Cain, Pharaoh, judas, Pilate, Annas, Caiphas, Herode, and many other did sin abound, but in them did grace never so abound, that they were absolved from that damnation, which is pronounced against all unfaithful, in these words: Who so ever shall not believe, shallbe condemned. And therefore I say, that your masters universal proposition is most false, and he not only a falsisier of the plain scriptures, but also a maintainer of all impiety, of all idolatry, and wicked religion. For if it shallbe admitted that where so ever sin hath abounded there shall grace more abound: then shall there be no difference between the condition of those that believe in Christ, and those that be despisers of his Euangile offered. Let the indifferent reader judge, whether that you, or we do now more smell of a careless, and a libertines life. But this after. The words of the Evangelist are plainly wrested. For he affirmeth not, that every man is illuminated to salvation, nether yet that Christ is offered (as ye would shift) to every man. But speaking of the excellency of Christ jesus, in whom was life, and by whom all things were created, he saith: this was the true light, which doth illuminate all men, that come into this world. In which words he speaketh nothing of man's redemption nether yet of any light, which man receiveth necessary for the same: But only of that light which was gi●ē to man in his creation, a part whereof (how small so ever it be) doth yet remain in man▪ and that not by his own power, but by the free gift of God, in whom we live, are moved, and have our being. And that the Euange list speaketh nothing of the light of our redemption, is evident by his own words. For, before, and after he doth witness, that the light did shine in darkness, but darkness did not apprehended it, that is receive, & acknowledge it: That he came amongst his own, but his own did not receive him, that such as did receive him were nether borne of blood, of the will of the flesh, nether yet of the will of man, but of God. By which words it is manifest, that the Evangelist most evidently declareth, that the light of salvation is not common unto all, but that it is proper to those only, that are borne of God. He doth further teach, that all reason, and natural understanding which man hath by his first birth, is so choked, so blinded, and extinguished, that man must needs be borne again, before he can see the kingdom of God, that Christ jesus must needs illuminate those, that be borne blind, or else (without remedy) they shall perish in their blindness. And thus I say the one text your master doth falsely, and the other most violently wrest. But now to your words. God is slow, (say you) to wrath, and ready to forgive. He will be entreated of all, Answer so that he biddeth all men every where to repent, and offereth faith unto all men. To the 2 I will not question with you at this time, why in this description of your true God, ye make no mention of the Son, which is the eternal word, and wisdom, of the eternal father, nether of the holy Ghost, who proceeding from the father, is equal with the eternal Son. But this is the one thing of which I did wonder in reading this your description, that ye omit these properties, which God attributeth to himself. You do continually repeat that God is slow to wrath, ready to forgive, that he willeth all men to be saved, that he willbe entreated of all men, that he willeth the death of no creature. Which properties in God we confess, and which sentences we acknowledge to be most true, if they be rightly understand. But why do ye not likewise teach your scholars, that God is zealous, that he is a consuming fire, that he punisheth the iniquity of the fathers, upon the sons, unto the third, and fourth generation: and that his justice can not suffer sin to escape punishment, no not even in his most dearest children. Ye have accused us, that we deceive the people, teaching them a careless, and libertine life. And therefore here again, I require the indifferent reader, to consider which of our doctrines giveth most liberty: whether you that affirm, that your true God willbe entreated of all, or we that constantly maintain, that God heareth no sinners, or that such as delight in iniquity, are so odious in his presence, that although they cry, and howl in their calamities, yet will he not hear them. But now let us examine your scriptures apart. God is slow to wrath (say you) true it is, but yet he recompenseth the flownes of punishment, with the severity of his judgements, which hath been, and shallbe executed against such as heap to themselves gods wrath, by abusing his long sufferings. He is ready to forgive: we acknowledge this to be the voice of our God. But we fear not to affirm, that the remission of sins, is the free gift of God, given to his Church by Christ jesus, like as are faith, and life ever lasting which are not common to all men in general, but particularly do appertain to gods children. He will be entreated of all (say you) so that he biddeth all men everywhere repent, and offereth faith to all men. Your first proposition is utterly falls, Answer neither yet is there any such sentence contained in the hole scriptures. Psal. 17. True it is that God is merciful gentle liberal, protector, Refuge, and Life to all. But to which all? To such as hate iniquity, love virtue, lament for their sins past, call upon his Name in verity, and do unfeignedly seek for his help, in the day of their trouble Of all these no doubt, he will be entreated, how wicked, and unthankful so ever they have been before. But by the contrary he will destroy all that speak lies. Psal. 5. He hateth all that work iniquity: nether will he show himself merciful to such as maliciously do offend. Psal. 75. But all the sinners of the earth shall drink the dregs of that cup which the eternal holdeth in his hand. For he will destroy all those that traitorously decline from him. Psal. 18. They shall cry, but he will not hear He shall answer unto them, let your lovers, whom ye have preferred to me● deliver you. Such as withdraw their ears from the cry of the poor, shall cry, but shall not be heard, yea albeit the blood thirstle will multiply prayers and stretch forth their hands, yet will not God hear them. For his countenance is bend against all that commit wickedness. And thus I say you● shall never be able to prove that God willbe entreated of all, except you can confute the holy Ghost, and make him, to recant these, and innumerable other places. As mercy is promised to his children (for they only call in verity, they only hate sin, and follow virtue) So is severe judgement pronounced against the wicked of the world. None of these sentences: God biddeth all men every where to repent, and offereth faith to all men, are found in that sense, and meaning that ye do understand them, in the hole scriptures. True it is that Isai the Prophet, and Christ jesus himself with his Apostles do call upon all to come to repentance: But that generality, is restrained by their own words, to those that thirst, that hunger, that mourn, that are laden with sin, as before we have taught. That place of the Acts ye either understand not, Act. 17. or else willingly ye abuse it. For Paul saith not that God offereth faith to all, but saith: that he hath performed to all, that promise which he made to man, which was to send a Saviour for man's redemption, by whom also he will judge the world. Consider the text, and you shall understand the meaning of the Apostle to be such. you proceed. He is omnipotent, and may do, and leave undone, What so ever shall be his good pleasure. The omnipotency of God, Answer & freedom of his will we most constantly maintain, but we can not admit that our God be variable, unconstant, subject to ignorance: nether yet that his godly will depend upon the will, and disposition of man. For that were not to leave gods will at freedom but to bring it under the bondage of his creatures. Further, these words, God may do, and leave undone, what so ever shallbe his pleasure, do smell somewhat of one of your articles offered unto us in this church, wherein some of your sect do affirm, that God may be fully purposed this day to do one thing, and that to morrow he may repent, and be purposed to do the contrary. Which cogitations of of God are most blasphemous, & wicked. For if his counsels be mutable, and inconstant, then ceaseth he to be the God, who nether is, nor can be changed. If you had said because that God is omnipotent, therefore he may do, and leave undone, what so ever his good pleasure is, you had said well, understanding, that the purpose of God is infinite, that therefore of his good will, he so mollifieth the hearts of some men, that of most cruel, and enraged enemies, against his truth, and poor servants, he maketh them and that suddenly preachers of his Gospel, and protectors to his Church. But when ye say, he may do what so ever is his good pleasure, ye offer occasion to the captious to suspect that you would affirm, that gods good will, & pleasure may change, and that is to deny his Godhead. But I will burden you no further, than ye shall plainly confess, I only put you in mind, To the 3 that the holy Ghost useth no such phrase. You proceed saying. Answer Nether is it his pleasure, and will, that either phara●, Semei, or any other should sin, and come to destruction. Before we have confessed that iniquity, and sin is so odious before God, that in it can his goodness never delight, nether yet can he have pleasure in the destruction of any creature, having respect to the punishment only. But seeing that gods glory must needs shine in all his creatures, yea even in the perpetual damnation of sathan, & torment of the reprobate, why shall not he will, and take pleasure, that so it come to pass. Albeit your frenetic brains can not comprehend the brightness thereof, yet will he one day declare that all his works are wrought in justice, wisdom, and equity. I think you will not deny, but that pharaoh, Semei, judas and others, came to destruction, like as in the end shall all reprobate do. Then do I ask, if God at no time, for no purpose, respect, nor end did so will, how then came their destruction to pass? By sin, say you, that we deny not. but yet the question is not answered. For continually we demand, if in God there was not power, either to have impeded their sin, or yet after their sin to have called them to repentance, if it had so pleased his eternal wisdom, and goodness Consider your folly, and give glory to God, who doth what so ever he will in heaven and in earth. But now to that which followeth. For he will the death of no creature but will all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth. How violently you wrist the words of the Prophet, Answer and of the Apostle shall shortly appear, after I have reasoned a little with you, how these your propositions do agree with that which goeth before. Ye have affirmed that God is ready to mercy, and slow to wrath, in which words you ●hew: and cofesse, that in the God head there is readiness to ●hew mercy, and also that there is a justice, which must execute wrath upon the disobedient. And so in the nature of the God head ye cofesse mercy ad justice. But here you say that God will the death of no creature, but that he will all men to be saved. which last words being understand as ye do urge them, must destroy the former nature of God, & take away his justice. For if he absolutely will the death of no creature, then will he no punishment to follow sin. And if he will no punishment, then willeth he his justice to cease, and so consequently must one of the properties of his godly nature cease. Study for an answer, to make your former words, and latter words better agree, or else ye willbe compelled to confess, that God for some respect willeth both death and damnation to come upon some creatures. Further if God willeth all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth, and yet many do perish in ignorance, and shallbe condemned as Christ jesus doth pronounce: then must it either follow that gods will is mutable, and so he unconstant, and not at all times like to himself, or else that he is not omnipotent. For if God at the first creation of man, would all men to be saved (as ye allege) then would I know, when this will was changed. After that man had offended, say you. Then yet have I obtained, that in gods will there was mutability. For after sin he would, and by his sentence pronounced, that Adam, and his posterity should suffer the corporal death, yea and that the seed of the serpent should have the head broken down, by the which is meant the spiritual death, which nether of both (as you affirm) did God will before. If you reply gods will towards the salvation of all mankind, did remain the same after sin, which was before: for a general promise of deliverance was made, by the woman's seed that was promised. I have before plainly proved, Answer that difference most manifest betwixt the two sedes was made in that promise. But admitting that the promise had been general, & so that the will of God this day remaineth the same which ye allege it to be: to wit, that he willeth the death of no sinner, but that he willeth all men to be saved. Can you deny, but that a separation, and division of the sheep, from the goats, of the elect from the reprobate, shallbe made at the glorious coming of the Lord jesus? Shall not these most joyful words be said unto them that shall stand upon the right hand: Come ye the blessed of my father, possess the kingdom which was prepared for you from the beginning? And shall not this most fearful sentence be pronounced, and executed against the other? Depart ye cursed, go to the fire prepared for the devil, and for his angels? Shall the Son of God in pronouncing sentence, do any thing that day repugning to the will of his heavenly Father? I think you will not so affirm. Then if gods will in the day of judgement shallbe that many shallbe adjudged to torment perpetual, and his will in the creation of man was, and this day yet remaineth, that all men shallbe saved, then of necessity it doth follow that gods will shall change. If you say that death, and damnation cometh not by gods will, but by the sin, and unbelief of man, you have relieved yourself nothing. for if death be one thing, and life be an other, damnation one thing, and salvation an other. Then if God this day will all men to be saved, and so to have life, and yet that day he shall will many to be damned to torment perpetual (what causes so ever you allege) I shall obtain one of two, to wit, that either gods will is, and may be mutable, or else that there is a power superior to his majesty, and godly will. For if willingly he shall damn those, whom before he would, and had determined to save, then is his will, and determination changed. And if he shall damn those unwillingly, whom willingly he would have saved, then is he not omnipotent. Consider now upon whom falleth the snow, and who do cast themselves in greatest absurdities. Now it resteth to declare how violently ye wrist the words of the Prophet, & of the Apostle. The Prophet speaking in the person of God, saith, I will not the death of a sinner, but rather that he convert, and live. And the Apostle affirmeth that God will all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. Hereupon ye conclude, God will the death of no creature, this is your first violence, which you do to the text. For the Prophet saith not: I will the death of no creature, but saith▪ I will not the death of a sinner. Ye are not ignorant suppose, what difference there is betwixt an univer sa●● negative, & an indefinite, or particular. Where ye say God willeth the death of no creature, ye speak generally, and universally excepting none. But so doth not the Prophet, for he saith not, I will the death of no creature, nether yet I will the death of no sinner, but simply saith: I will not the death of a sinner. I wonder that ye consider not, that as there is difference betwixt creatures, and creature, so that also there is difference between sinners, and sinner. Some creatures are appointed 〈◊〉 death, for the use, and sustentation of man. And dare yo● say, that this is done against gods will? we be taught the contrary by his own mouth. If you correcting your generality shall say, that you mean only that God will the death of no man. And I fear not yet to join with you, and against you to affirm: that God hath willed, doth will, and shall will the death of some men. The holy Ghost speaking of the sons of Heli the high Priest, 1. Reg. 2 saith: But they did not hear the voice of their Father, because the Lord would kill them. And Moses saith, Sihon king of Hesbon would not suffer us to pass through his country, Deu. 2 for the Lord thy God did harden his mind, and strengthen his heart, that he shoule give him into thy hands. How often doth Moses, & josua declare unto the people, that God would kill, root out and destroy those wicked nations from besore the face of his people? And were all those kings, whom josua did kill, killed against gods will? The holy Ghost affirmeth the contrary: For it is written, the Lord did trouble them before Israel, and he did strike them with a great slaughter. And while that they did flee before the Israelites, and were in the descense of Bethoron, the Lord cast down upon them from heaven great stones, and many more perished by the hail stones, than were slain with the sword of the children of Israel. If the destruction, slaughter, & death of these wicked men, and of the great host of Senacherib was not the will of God, I can not tell how man shallbe assured of his will. For the plain word did before promise, that the Lord should destroy them, and the fact doth witness the constancy, and performance of his will. and the same thing doth God this day, & shall do to the end of the world, when he shall adjudge the reprobate, (as before is said) to the death perpetual: and that not against his will, but willingly, for the manifestation of his just judgements, and declaration of his own glory. And therefore I say that your prosition (saying, God willeth the death of no creature) is manifestly falls, as it that repugneth to god's justice, ●●e. 18 and to his evident scriptures. The mind of the Prophets was to stir such as had declined from God, to return unto him by true repentance. And because their iniquities were so many, & offences so great, that justly they might have despaired of remission, mercy, and grace: therefore doth the Prophet for the better assurance of those that should repent, affirm, that God delighteth not, neither willeth the death of the wicked. But of which wicked? of him no double that truly should repent, in his death did not, nor never shall God delight. But he delighteth to be known a God, that showeth mercy grace, and favour to such, as unfeignedly call for the same, how grievous so ever their former offences have been. But such as continue obstinate in their impiety, have no portion of these promises. For them will God kill, them will he destroy, and them will he thrust by the power of his word in to the firewhich never shallbe quenched. The Apostle in these words: God willeth all men to be saved, & to come to the knowledge of the truth speaketh not of every man, and of every particular person. But of all men in general, that is to say, of men of all estates, all conditions, all realms, and all ages. For as in Christ jesus there is nether jew, nor Gentile, nether man, nor woman, free man● nor servant, but all are one in him, so can no estate, no condition of man, no realm, nor no age be proved so wicked, and so corrupt, but out of the like hath God called some to the participation of his light, and to salvation, and life by Christ jesus. and that this is the very natural meaning of the holy Ghost, the text itself doth witness. For the Apostle immediately before willeth prayers, and supplications to be made for all men, for Kings, and for all that were placed in authority. And because that the Church was chiefly oppressed by such, this doubt might have risen: Are we then bound to pray for those that are express, and conjured enemies against God? You are, saith the Apostle: for that is good, and acceptable before God our Saviour, who will all men to be saved. That is, God willeth you to pray for your persecutors, that their eyes may be opened, and they converted to the living God: who no doubt will save some of all estates, of all conditions and vocations of men. For the nations are given to Christ jesus by inheritance: Kings shallbe the feders of the Church: Queens shallbe nurses: And in his holy temple, shall all sing praise. If this interpretation (which we doubt not to be the very meaning of the holy Ghost, can not satisfy you. Then will I ask of you. If God will men otherwise to be saved then by Christ jesus? or as the Apostle speaketh, by coming to the knowledge of the verity? Plain it is, that by the words of the Apostle ye can conclude none otherwise. For as he saith God will all men to be saved, so doth he add, and willeth all men to come to the knowledge of the verity. Which word (willeth) albeit it be not expressedly repeated in the second member, yet of necessity, it must be understand, as those that be but meanly seen in the greek, or latin tongue do evidently see. Then if I shall sufficiently prove, that God willeth not all men, to come to the knowledge of the verity, in such sort, as the Apostle meaneth, shall it not infallablye follow, that God will not all men to be saved, in such sense as you understand. That God willeth not all men to come to the knowledge of that verity, by the which man is verily made free from the bondage of sathan, is evident, not only by those whom we do see walk in darkness, and ignorance, but also by the manifest srriptures of God. who called Abraham, making to him, and to his seed the promise, of salvation, saying: I will be thy God, and the God of thy seed after thee which promise he kept secret many ages from the rest of the world. When he did notify his law unto Israel, and when Moses did repeat the same, he said: Behold I have laid before you this day life, Deu. 30 and death, benediction, and execration, chose therefore life, that thou, and thy seed may live. If God would that all men, and all nations indifferently should come to the same knowledge, why were not the laws, statutes, and judgements of God made manifest to others, as they were to Israel? And if you answer that so they were. the holy Ghost shall convict you of a li●. For he affirmeth, that God had not done so to all nations, and that his judgements he had not revealed, nor made known unto them. But if that plain division made by God himself betwixt jew, and Gentle, during the time of the law, doth not fully satisfy you. Hear yet the sentence of our Master Christ jesus, who saith to his disciples: To you it is given to understand the secrets of the kingdom, but unto others in parables, that having eyes they should not see. And that most plainly in that his solemned th●̄ckes giving, he saith: I praise the o father for thou hast hid these things from the prudent, and from the wise, but thou hast revealed them to little ones. If God would have had the true knowledge of himself, and of his Son Christ jesus common to all, why should Christ himself affirm that to some it was given, & to others it was not given? to some it was reue●ed, & from others it was hid? And therefore seeing it is plain that God will not give his true knowledge to all (yea to some he doth never offer it) ye shall never be able to prove that God will all men to be saved. For the only means to attain to salvation, and to life, is to know, and embrace God to be our merciful father in Christ jesus, to which knowledge who so ever doth not attain (I mean of those that come to the years & age of discretion) can have no assurance to be saved. This were sufficient to convict you, even in your own conscience. For albeit malice will not suffer you to give place to the plain verity, yet shall the weight thereof so oppress your pride that when you do open your mouth against it, ye● shall ye be witnesses even against your selves. But yet for the cause of my simple brothers I will add two things first, how all such places, as either make a general promise of salvation to all, or yet that do pronounce gods wrath against all, must be understand. secondarily, what sinners they are, whose death God will not. For the first I say, that who so ever doth deny that from the beginning there hath been, this day are, and to the end● shall remain two armies, bands, or companies of men, whom God in his eternal counsel hath so divided, that betwixt them there continueth a batt●ll, which never shallbe reconciled, until the Lord jesus put a final end to the miseries of his Church: who doth not understand the truth of this (I say) doth nether know God, nether his Son Christ jesus: nether yet do such, believe his word, in which, both the one sort, & the other, are most manifestly expressed. The one of these Armies, is called the Church of God the elect Spouse of Christ jesus, the sheep appointed to slaughter, the kingly priesthood, the sons of God, and the people redeemed. by ancient writtets it is termed the city of God. The other is called the synagogue of satan, the church malignant, cruel, deceat full, and bloodthirsty wolves, Progeny of vipers, sons of the devil, workers of iniquity, and such as worship the beast, and his image. And according to the divers natures, conditions, and ends of these two companies, doth the scripture pronounce general sentences, and universal propositions, which not withstanding must be restrained to those of whom the holy Ghost meaneth. For nether justly may those sentences spoken of gods elect, be referred to the reprobate, nether yet such as be spoken of the reprobate sort, be rightly applied to the elect, except it be for terrifying of their conscience, and that only for a season. as Christ jesus called Peter sathanas: and Nathan called David the Son of death, I will adduce examples of the one sort, and of the other● that the matter may be more evident. The Prophet Isai (which place also our Master allegeth) speaking of gods elect children, Esa. 54 saith: john 6 They shall all be taught of God, and they shall know me from the least to the greatest. jocl. I shall power forth of my spirit, Act. on all flesh. All flesh shall see the salvation of God. The Lord raiseth up all that fall. All the inhabitants of the earth shall learn justice. Psal. All men shall come out of Saba. Isa. ●6 All thy people shable just. I shall comfort all that mourn. Isa. 6● You be all the Sons of God ye be all the Sons of light. These, and many more places, Gala. 3 which be universally spoken, must be restrained to gods children only, who be elected in Christ jesus. 1. Thes. 5● For those that be with out his body, are nether taught of God, nether yet know they God, in such sort as the Prophet there meaneth. Into them is never powered the spirit of sanctification: They give never unto God true honour, and glory: They neither learn justice, nether yet are they just: They are not the sonnnes of God by adoption, nether yet the sons of light, whose works shine before men to the praise of our heavenly father. But remain ignorant, profane, idolaters, filthy persons, replenished with darkness, as the sons of the devil. And therefore can not these former sentences, which appertain to gods children only, be rightly spoken, or pronounced of the reprobate. Psal. 21 Of the other sort, it is said: All that see me have mocked me, they put forth their tongues, they shake their heads. These words spoke David in the person of Christ, and yet God forbidden, that we should think that all (without exception) did so mock, and jest at Christ, no, not even in his greatest extremity. For some, we read, stood beside his cross with sorrowful hearts. Some returned, giving open confession that he was the Son of God. And the thief began to be a preacher, even when others did most despitefully rail. And therefore where it is said: all that saw me, did mock me, that generality must be restrained to those enraged dogs, the Priests, Scribes, wicked soldiers, and most unthankful people, who of very malice did deny, and crucify their Lord, and Messiah, that was promised▪ Isai, and jeremy, speaking of the destruction of jerusalem, and of the causes of the same, Isa: 31 say: I shall consume you all at once, and ye shall all be ashamed, by a people that shall not profit you, Isa. 56 They have all followed their own ways. Every man gapeth for bribes. Why will ye contend with me, ye have all declined from me. jere. 1 From the least to the most, jere. 6 every one is bend upon avarice they are all traitors, they are all (I say) traitors, every brother deceiveth another. All men contemn me, all men hold me in execration. jere. 15 If these, and other like places shallbe understand so universally, as they appear to be spoken, then must we be compelled to say, that no true fearer of God remained in jerusalem, when the Prophets did preach, but that all were blood thirsty, all avaricious, all idolaters, and all dumb dogs: the contrary whereof is evidently declared. For Isai had the children whom the Lord had given unto him, who albeit they were holden as monsters among men yet, did they patiently abide the Lord. jeremy had Baruch his faithful, scribe not withstanding his weakness, and infirmity. Abedmelech feared the Lord, was favourable to the Prophet, and therefore saved he his soul for a pray, and was delivered from that day of vengeance. And therefore these universal sentences must also be restrained, and kept within their own bounds, 2. Ti. 4 like as these: All have left me, all seek the things, that appertain unto themselves, and not those things that be of God. Which sentences (except they be restrained) we shall condemn the dearest children of God, who in Paul's days did valiantly fight against the prince of this world. These examples of the one sort, & of the other I have adduced, to let the simple understand, that such general sentences of necessity, must be so restrained, that difference may be kept betwixt the elect, and the reprobate. For else we shall do nothing in explaining scriptures, but confound light, with darkness. For if the words of our Master Christ jesus saying: The wicked be not taught of God. All shallbe taught of God, shallbe so generally understand, that no exception be admitted, then of necessity it is, that all men, and every person shall come to the true knowledge of Christ jesus▪ for of that knowledge doth he speak in that place. But the contrary thereof is most evident, even by Christ jesus his own words, God will not the death of a sinner explained, who putteth a plain difference betwixt them, that be given to him by his father, and betwixt them, that be not given. But now let us briefly consider, what sinners, they are whose death God will not, but rather hat they convert & live. Saint John in his Epistle saith: If we say, 1. john. 1 we have no sin we deceive ourselves, & the verity is not in us. If we confess our sins, 1. john 3 he is faithful & just, to remit to us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness etc. And after: Who soever committeth sin transgresseth also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he is revealed to take away our sins, and in him is no sin. As many as bide in him (that is in Chriiste jesus) sin not: who soever sinneth hath not seen him nether hath known him etc. He that committeth sin is of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning etc. who soever is borne of God committeh not sin, for his seed abideth in him nether can he sin, because he is borne of God. Of which words it is evident, that there be two sorts of sinners, the one be they who mourn, lament, and bewail their own wretchedness, and misery unfeignedly before God, confessing not only that their hole nature is sinful, and corrupt, but also that daily they so offend the Majesty of their God, that most justly they deserve the torments of hell, if Christ's justice, & Christ's mediation (which by faith they embrace) should not deliver them from the wrath to come. To these is not sin imputed. for the blood of Christ purgeth them from all sin, his advocation, and intercession, maketh to them an entrance to the throne of their father's grace. To them is given the spirit of sanctification, which from time, to time, as it revealeth their sins so doth it mortify, & purge the same. Not that ever in this life gods elect hath been, are, or shallbe so clean purged from sin, that the flesh lusteth not against the spirit, as some times affirmed the Pellagians, & those that then were called Cathari, that is clean purged, and now also do the anabaptists renew the same most pestilent error: by the which Christ jesus his justice, his office, and perpetual mediation, is utterly destroyed: in such sort I say are not gods children purged in this life, that nether they feel sin, nether yet the motions, & enticements of the same. But they are so purged the sin reigneth not in their mortal bodies. for the seed of God, which is the virtue power, efficacy, and operation of his holy spirit suffereth them not to delight in sin: but as they are first called from darkness to light & from the bondage of sathan, to the liberty of gods children, so when they sin (as there is none that sinneth not) they are called again by true repentance to their former society and fellowship with Christ jesus. The death of such sinners did God never will, nether yet can he will. for from all eternity they were his elect children, whom he gave to his dear Son, to be his inheritance, whom the Son received into his protection, and safeguard, to whom he hath manifested, and to the end, shall manifest himself, and the loving kinds of his heavenly father: In whose hearts he writeth the law of God, and maketh them to walk in his commandements, ●uer thirsting to a further, and more perfect justice than they find within themselves by reason of their corruption. The death I say of those sinners God will not, but he will that they repent, and live. The Apostle saint Peter saith: 2. Pet. 3 The Lord that hath promised, is not slow, but he is long suffering toward us, while that he will none to perish, but will receive all to repentance. The Apostle here meaneth not, that all, without exception, shallbe received to life by true repentance, but that the cause why God so long deferreth (as it were) the extreme judgement, is, that the electnomber of gods children may be complete, (as answer was given to those that cried under the altar to be revenged upon the tyrants that dwell on the earth) of these his elect children, God will none to perish, as before is said. But there is another sort of sinners far different from these. For nether are they displeased with themselves, nether yet hate they iniquity, but against gods express commandements furiously they run with Cain to murder the innocent, with Pharaoh to oppress the people of God, with judas to betray the known, and professed verity: and finally so delight they in all filthiness, & impiety, that they can not repent. The eyes of such be blinded, their hearts are hardened, they are given over in to a reprobate mind. And for them doth not Christ jesus pray, and therefore they can do nothing but headlongs run from evil to worse, as the devil (to whose tyranny they are committed) doth drive them, till finally they come to perdition: which end was appointed unto them not against gods will, but by his will immutable in his eternal counsel. For no less will he, that the severity of his judgements be seen in the vessels of wrath, than that the riches of his grace be praised in the vessels of mercy. Storm, and rage, spew forth your venom, and blaspheme till ye provoke gods vengeance at once to be powered forth upon your own heads, this sentence will he never retract: He will have mercy, upon whom he will have mercy, and whom he will, To the. 6 he maketh hard hearted. That God in himself hath but one will, which is holy, just, and permanent, that in him there is no contrarity: that he is faithful; and doth perform what soever he doth promise. What we understand by gods secret will, and how he tempteh no man, I have before sufficiently declared. And therefore, I will not truble the reader with the repetition of the same. Now let us hear what is your judgement of us, and how ye extol yourselves. THE ADVERSARY. As these gods be of contrary nature so do they beget children of a contrary nature, The 46. section. the falls God begetteh unmerciful proud ambicrouse, and enuifull children, bloody persecutors of others for their conscience saik, evil speakers impatient, contentious and seditious children. And they be like unto their father in that they speak one thing with their mouth and think an other with their heart. They can never be without filthy thoughts & wicked 〈◊〉. for such poison do they receive of their father. The true God begetteth merciful, humble, lowly, and loving children, abhorring from blood, persecuting no man, good speakers patiented, & detesting all 〈◊〉, chiding and brawling, and they be like unto their father, in that what soever they speak with their mouth, they think with their heart. they be always moved with good thoughts and godly revelations, for such grace receive they 〈…〉 of their father. ANSWER. It may seem by the description of these your two gods (for nether of both, as ye describe them, is the true living, & eternal God) that ye study to renew the damnable error of the manichees, who imagined two beginners, the one of all goodness, and of all good creatures, the other of all iniquity, and of wicked creatures: affirming further that the good, and the merciful God was overcome for a time, by him that was wicked, and evil. And because that the plain scriptures did confute these blasphemies, therefore did they deny the authority of Moses, and the certainty of all other scriptures that made any thing against their error. If manifestly ye did take upon you the defence of those your fathers, as that ye do of pelagius, of Donatus, and of the Papists (for of all these adulterous fathers, ye be adulterous children) then would I from Augustine (whom God stirred up no doubt in the days of darkness most learnedly, and most plainly by infallible scriptures to cofute those heresies) from him, I say I might take artillery all ready prepared, able enough to overthrow your buildings, and munitions, appear they never so strong. But because (as before I have said) my purpose is not to burden you further, than you do confess: I only admonish the reader to be ware of such pestilences, as begin to call the truth of God revealed in his holy word, in doubt, and do persuade men to credit dreams, and revelations, how soever they appear to repugn to that which is revealed in the word. Of such men I say▪ ought Christ's flock to take heed, as also of those who make of equal authority such books, as yet the holy Ghost hath never commended to the Church of Christ, with these that are written by Moses, the Prophets, the Evangelists, and Apostles, and that by inspiration of the holy Gost. That some of you be infected with this most pestilent poison, I am able to prove by more arguments than one. Being at London the the winter before the death of king Edward, one▪ of your faction required secret communication of me, in which after that earnestly he had required of me closeness, and fidelity, because that the matters that he had to communicate with me, were so weighty, and of such importance, as sithence the days of the Apostles, the like was never opened unto man. In the end, after many words (which I nether gladly heard, nether yet will now write) he gave me a book, written (as he said) by God, even as well as was any of the evangelists. This his book he adjured me (as it were) to read, and required to have my judgement of it. My answer was, that at his request I would read it, so that he would be content to reason with me of the chief points in the same contained, but to pronounce sentence, or judgement, that could I not usurp, being but one man far inferior to many of my brethren, the preachers of gods word in that realm. Always he urged me to read his book. And I wondering what mysteries it should contain, called to me a faithful brother, who then (as pleased God) was present with me, named Henry Farrour merchant, to whom I opened the matter by whose counsel, and in whose presence I began to read his book. The first proposition whereof was: God made not the world, nether yet the wicked creatures, in the same contained, but they had their beginning from another, that is from the devil, who is called the Prince of the world. which proposition plainly repugning, to god's word, I did impugn, and began to declare unto him, for what cause Satan had that title, to be called the Prince of the world. But he utterly denying either to reason, and dispute, either yet to be reform in any point that there was written, commamnded me to read forward, & to believe, howbeit I did not understand. To whom, when I had gently said: Can any reasonable man will me to believe things directly fight against god's verity, and plain word revealed? Tusch said he, for your written word, we have as good, and as sure a word, and verity, that teacheth us this doctrine, as ye have for you, and your opinion. And then I did more sharply answer saying: ye deserve the death, as a blasphemous person, and denier of God, if ye prefer any word to that which the holy Ghost hath uttered in his plain scriptures. At which words he took pepper in nose, and snatching his book forth of my hand departed after he had thus spoken: I will go to the end of the world, but I will have my book confirmed, and subscribed with better learned men than you be. In me I confess there was great negligence, that nether did retain his book, nether yet did present him to the Magistrate. But yet this argument I have, that your faction is not altogether clean from the heresy of the manichees. I could name, and point forth others, who labour in the same disease: but so long as their venom doth remain secret, within themselves, I am purposed to spare them. But now that you accuse us to be unmerciful, proud, ambitious, and envious children, bloody persecutors of others for their conscience sake, evil speakers, impatient, contentious, and seditious children, that we speak one thing with our mouths, and think another in our hearts. And that ye extol yourselves, that ye are merciful, humble, & loving children, abhorring from blood, persecuting noman, good speakers, patient, and detesting all contention: That you be all ways moved with good thoughts, and godly revelations, for such grace receive you plenteonsly of your father. To the which I briefly answer, that because we have a just judge, who shall reveal the secrets of all hearts, we will rather sustain to be of you, unjustly accused, then become proud bragger's of our own justice, as you be, which sin is so odious in gods presence that he hath never suffered it unpunished, even before men. Forty years & more hath the Euamgile of Christ jesus been preached in Germany, in Helvetia, and now of latter years in Geneva. and so long hath this doctrine been taught of some, and hath been believed of many, but what cruelty, what murder or what sedition, can justly be laid to the charge of those, that most constantly have taught and maintained the same? let the world convict them. And how far their life abhorreth from pride, ambition, and filthiness hath God witnessed, and to this day doth witness, how so ever Satan doth blind your eyes. But soon after that God had sown his good seed, began the devil to sow the cockle, and darnel, I mean the pestilent sect of anabaptists, whose fruits did suddenly appear to the great slander of Christ's evangel, and to the grief of many godly hearts. brag what ye list of your justice, of your mercy, of your godly revelations, and other such, ye are the brethren, maintainers, and children of those in whom the contrary was plainly found: your doctrine and theirs, are both one. and therefore of you can we look for none other fruit (unless that God restrein your fury) then your fathers have once produced before you. And that the readers shall not be ignorant, what it was, I have added this History, written by that most faithful, and notable witness of things done in matters of religion, sithence the beginning of the Empire of Charles the fift until the year of 1556, which History I add (as God, I take to record) of no private malice, which I bear against any person, but only that the world may see, what was your original, how unjustly ye accuse us of such crimes, as impudently you lay to our charge, and how justly all men ought to fear that confusion which ye intent, if God be times overthrow not your enterprises. The History Historia Sle●dani libro 5. and your original is this. There is a town named Alstet, in the borders of Turingia, under the dominion of the Duke of Saxon Elector, to the which town came one Thomas Muncer, who began first to teach not only against the Pope, but also against Luther, affirming both their doctrines to be corrupted, and unpure: that the Pope bound men's consciences with to straight laws, and bands: again, that Luther loosed those bands, but yet finned on the contrary part, in giving to much liberty, and in preaching those things, that were not of the spirit. He taught also that it was lawful to despise the pope's decrees, because they were of no force to bring us to salvation, which to attain unto (said he) most chief that we should avoid all manifest iniquities, as murder, adultery, & blaspheming of the name of God, that the body should be chastised and brought low with fasting, and simple clothing, that men ought to fashion their countenance to look sadly, The hypocrisi● of the Anabaptistas'. and gravely, that they should speak but seldom, and that they ought to nourish their beards. These things and such like, he called the cross, the mortification of the flesh, & discipline. After they are thus furnished, and prepared (said he) they ought to haunt solitary places, out of men's compagnie, and often to think of God, what manner a one he is, whether he have any care of us or no, If Christ suffered for us, If our religion were not to be preferred to the Turks religion. And that we should ask a sign of God to assure us that he taketh care for us, and that we stand in the true religion. If he show not some sign immediately, that we should nevertheless go forward, praying instantly, yea & vehemently quarrelling with God, as if he did us not right. That seeing it is his will, as the scripture teacheth us, to give to those that ask, he doth injury in not giving a sign to him that desireth the true knowledge of him. This kind of chiding, and anger he said, to be very acceptable unto God. because that by it he might perceive the fervent inclination of our minds. And that he would undoubtedly (if in this manner we did solicit him) declare himself by some manifest sign, that he would quench the thirst of our minds. And deal with us, as he did in times past, with our fathers. This also he taught, that God revealed his will by dreams, and that he laid in them the foundation of his purpose. And if it chanced that any man's dream might be interpreted, him he highly extolled openly before the assembly. And when by this means he had gotten many on his side, by little, and little, he came to the same, which he went about a little before: and in the forenamed town he began to register their names which (being of his confideracie) were sworn to aid him, in slaying the wicked Princes, & magistrates, and in placing new in their rooms. For he said that he had received that commandment of God, to take them away & to constitute new. So long as he spoke but of dreams, & such other like things, Friderike duke of Saxon did bear with him, especially because Luther by letters required him so to do. but when he began to preach seditiously, he was banished, who (after he had lurked in corners certain months) came to Noriberge, and being also thrust from thence, a little after he came to Milhusium a town of Turingia. For when he was at Alstet he had enticed to him some of the citizens by whose help he obtained the office of teaching. And because the magistrates liked him not, he raised a tumult amongst the people, whereby new magistrates were created. This was the beginning of trouble. after these things the townsmen cast out the monks, and invaded their houses, whereof the chiefest and richest fell to Muncers lot, who now played both the preacher, and the magistrate. For judgement (said he) should be give by the revelation of God, and of the scripture. And o● all other things he gave sentence, as it pleased him: for whatsoever he said, it seemed to them most holy. That their goods should be in common, he said, was most agreeable to humanity. That all ought to be equal in dignity, all men should be free, and that all their goods should be used indifferently, as well of one, as of an other. Whereby the common people began to leave of labour, and to be idle, and what thing soever any lacked, that that they took by violence from other that abounded. These manners he used for a space & when the common people, & husband men were in armour through Suevia, & Franconia to the number of forty thousand, & had destroyed the greatest part of their nobility, & had pulled down, and burned many Castles, & towers: them put he to his hand also thinking that the most convenient time to bring his purpose to pass. And making inginnes of war in the grey friars church, the greater part of the people he brought forth of the country, in hope of a pray, & of more wealth. He had a companion of marvelous audacity who was of all his counsel, whose name was Phifer. this man attributed much to dreams, & visions of the night: and amongst other things he chanced to boast, that he saw in his sleep in a certain stable a marvelous great multitude of mice & that he did drive them all away. By which dream he understood, that God commanded him to take his armour, and go forth with an army to destroy all the nobility. But Muncer althugh he preached vehemently to the people, yet was he some what colder, neither listed he to adventure the prosperous estate, that he was in already, before all they that were about him were in armour. And to bring the matter more easily to pass, he sent letters to the workeme that digged for metals in the country of Mansfeld, earnestly admonishing them to fall upon the Princes, without doubting of the matter, for it should come to pass that they which were in a readiness in Franconia shall come nearer to Turingia. In the mean time Phifer that loved not to linger long in any matter, went out with his men, and destroyed the country of Isfeld adjacent unto them, he spoilt the Castles and temples, destroyed many of the nobles, and took certain of them prisoners, whom he bound in chains. After he returned home with a great pray. Whose prosperous success encouraged greatly the hearts of the common people, especially because the countries also about them were up, and had invaded the country of Mansfeld. So Muncer (thinking now that all men's hearts had failed them on 〈…〉) came with 300. men to Mulhusium, and joined himself to the Francusians. At that same time died Friderike Duke of Saxon without issue (for he lived a sole life) whose successor was John his brother german. While these things were in doing, Albert the county of Mansfeld gathered (with all expedition) a company of horsemen, and violently coming upon them, he slew 300, wherewith they being feared, durst proceed no further, but fled to Francusium, where they tarried waiting for a greater army. whereby only their assault was deferred. In the time of this delay the Princes that were there about, gathered horsemen, to the number of a fifteen hundred, but no great multitude of footmen. These were the Princes of Saxon, John Elector, George his cousin german, Philippe Landgrave of Hesse, and Henri Duke of Brunswick. The bowers (that is husband men) remained upon a hill not far from Francusium, who had gathered their carts, and set them so nigh together, to fence them withal, that with much difficulty, could they be come unto. But they were nether well furnished with harness, nether yet with ordinance, and they were all for the most part unexpert in the feats of war, wherewith the Princes were so moved to compassion, that they sent messengers to exhort them to deliver the authors of the sedition, to lay away their weapon's, & to departed home without hurt. But Muncer, Muncers fa●s & ora●tie ●ration. considering his own danger, came forth into the assembly, & with grave countenance, said: Ye brethren, & fellow soldiers do see tyrants not far from you, who although they have conspired against us to take away our lives, yet are they of so small a courage, that they dare enterprise nothing against us. They offer foolish, and fond conditions to the intent to spoil you of your armour. And now, it is manifest to you all, that I began this deed, but not of any private authority of my own (nether did I ever go about such a thing) but by the commandment of God, which thing being so, it becometh both me, and you to obey, & not once to move out of this place, wherein God himself hath set us, who in times past commanded Abraham to offer his son, whose precept without resistance Abraham obeyed, albeit he was ignorant what should come of it. And therefore did God both preserve his son, and also highly rewarded his faith. in like manner ought we (which are in the same state) to persevere, committing the issue unto God. for without doubt, all things shallbe even as we would have it. Ye yourselves shall behold the manifest help of God, and who so ever is our enemy, him shall we suppress on every side. Nether is it in one place of the scripture only, where God promiseth succour to the afflicted, & to destroy the wicked. This promise most assuredly appertaineth unto us. for we are poor, and in misery, & because we desire to retain and publish the knowledge of God, there is no doubt, but that we shall overcome, and be conquerors. On the other side let us consider the condition of our enemies, I confess they are called Princes, but in deed they be tyrants, neither have they any care of you at all, but devour all men's goods, and spend them most wickedly. In that people which sometime God chose peculiarly unto himself, he ordained that kings should not spend any time in waste, yea he commanded that they should look diligently in the book of the laws, which he had given them. But what do our tyrants? or how are they occupied? They think the common wealth is no part of their charge: they know nothing of poor men's causes, they care not for justice, they suffer the ways to be beset with thieves, they punish not robbers, nether any other vice, they help not the widow, nether yet the fatherless. They look not to the good education of youth. As for the honouring of gods Name, they do not only themselves neglect it, but also they hinder it Thus only they apply to draw all men's goods to themselves: and therefore do they every day devise new ways to get money by extortion. Nether set they their minds upon defending or maintaining of peace, but that (being enriched above measure) they may abound in all kind of riot, and pride. It is to manifest how great tumults, and wars they raise for very light, and foolish causes: whereby all that remaineth to the poor people is lost, and destroyed. Behold these are the excellent virtues, and policies of your noble princes, wherein they exercise themselves. Therefore let none think, that God will suffer those things any longer, but rather persuade himself assuredly, that as God did once destroy the Canaanites, so will he now also these. For though all these things, which I have recited before, were tolerable, think you that they shall escape unpunished for defending, and maintaining that most execrable impiety of the popish preachers? Who is ignorant how great iniquity is in the buying, & selling of Masses? I will say nothing of the rest. Surely as Christ drove out the buyers, & sellers, out of the church, so shall he now also root out the priests, with their patrons, and companions: be strong therefore, and to gratify God, slay all this unprofitable multitude. To make peace with them I can see no way honest, safe or sure enough: for they will neither leave of their purpose, neither restore us to liberty, neither permit the true worshipping of God. and it were better for us to die▪ then to allow their iniquity, and to suffer ourselves to be spoiled of the doctrine of the Gospel. I promise you assuredly that God shall prosper us▪ and that the victory shallbe ours. For he himself promised me to my face, even he I say that can not deceive, nor lie, commanded me to begin this work on this manner, by punishing the Magistrates, and in ded● the power of God, herein appeareth most excellent, when a great multitude of enemies is slain by a small hand. To let many other things pass, ye know what Gedeon brought to pass with a flaw: what jonathas did accompanied with one poor servant only: what David did when he fought alone against that monster Golias of huge stature, who for his height was even terrible to look on. There is no doubt, but this day in like manner shallbe notable, and had in remembrance of all posterities for the like spectacle. For although we seem not to be well furnished with weapons, nor fenced as it appertaineth, yet shall we have the victory. And this workmanship of heaven, and earth shall rather be changed, then that we shallbe forsaken of God. for so in times past was the nature of the sea changed, that the Israelites might escape danger, when of Pharaoh they were pursued: let not the judgement of your own reason move you, neither let any appearance of shadow of danger trouble you, but valiantly invade the wicked, and ungodly enemy, never let their eng●●es of w●rre make you afraid, for I will receive in the l●ppe of my garment all the gunstones. Behold see you not h●w merciful God is unto us▪ Look up I beseech you, and mark well the sign, and testimony of his perpetual love toward us: Lift up your eyes, and see me the bow of heaven, by the which image showed us from above, God signifieth to us most manifestly, that he will assist us in this battle: for as much as we have the same bow painted in our ensign, & he showeth also by the very same, death, and destruction to our tyrants. Therefore fall upon your enemies with a lusty courage, having an assured hope that God will help you. For God will not that ye should make peace with the wicked adversaries. When he had made an end of exhorting his soldiers, who nevertheless (for the most part) trembled for the greatness of the present danger. But all things were done in a hurley burley, without any certain rule, or order. Moreover there were some of a desperate audacity, ready to put to their hands to every mischievous act: these of their own nature inclining to work mischief, were then more set on fire by his oration. but chiefly they were moved by the rainbow, which stood in the element (as it is said before) and that took they for a most sure sign of victory, And this also helped them, that they were a great number, about eight thousand men, and that the place was fit for to defend them. So these men that were so boldened, with a loud voice admonished all men to take their weapons, and to go forth against the enemy with a good courage: and they had also a song wherein they asked the assistance of gods holy spirit. But before this a certain young man of noble birth was sent unto them whom Muncer (contrary to the law of arms, and to the custom of any nation) slew: wherewith the Princes were so provoked, The An●b●ptis●s great ●ercie. that they blew their trumpets to battle, and set their men in array. At that time, there was there Philippe Prince of Hesse, who although he was the youngest of all, yet road he to, and fro, exhorting the soldiers to be strong. which exhortation being ended, they invaded their enemies, beginning first to shoot of their ordinance. And then the miserable men (as all amazed, or▪ besides themselves) nether defended themselves, nor yet fled to save their lives, but song still that song to the holy Ghost to help them. And the most part of them put such confidence in M●cers fair promises, that they looked for help from heaven. When they had shot of their ordinance, and began to assault their holds, and that many of them were on every side slain, then were they put to flight, and went to Francusium, but some of them went to the other side of the hill, where they kept out for a while a few horsemen, and slew one, or two of them. But when they were all for the most part fled, the horsemen (scattered, and dispersed) wandered to, & fro, without order, so that whither so ever bowers fled they were pursued. But some of their men (as I said before being slain, the residue all kindled with fury & desire of revenge, were more violent, and were slain to the number of 5000▪ straight way Francusium was takē●y battle, and 300 in it, which were beheaded. Muncer fled into the town, and hid himself in a house not far from the gate. Into the which it happened that a certain gentle man entered, whose servant going up into the upper part of the house, of purpose to view the dwelling. he found a certain man lying upon a bed, of whom he demanded, what he was, and, whether he were one of the rebels, which fled out of the tumult: That he denied, saying: That even then he was sick of an ague. Here 〈◊〉 the truth of Anabaptist●s It happened that besides the bed there lay a purse, which the other snatched up, hoping to get ●ome pray in it. After he had opened it, he found therein a letter, wherein Albert Mansfeld admonished Muncer, to leave of his enterprise and not to stir the people to sedition. when he had red these letters, he asked if they were written to him, but when he denied it, he forced him so that he confessed himself to be Muncer, and entreated him. Then (being taken) he was brought to George the Duke of Saxon, How G●d re●eieth things. and to the Landgrave, who asked him, why he had so deceived poor men. he answered, that he had done nothing but his duty: and that the Magistrates, who would not abide the doctrine of the Gospel's, ought on that manner to be handled. But after that by the Princes he was put to silence, he cried out for very anguish. Then said George the Duke of Saxon unto him: Now art thou vexed Muncer, but think also in thyself, of the death of those miserable men, which (being wickedly deceived, by this thy craft) have this day perished. The he (with great laughter) answered, so would they. After he was brought to Helderung a town of Mansfeld, where he was straightly examined what he purposed to do, and who were of his conspiracy, he told them all. Then came the Princes of Mulhusium to Helderung, and beheaded some of the rebels, among whom Phipher (of whom I spoke before) was one. The comfort of the Anaba ●n adversity. Thither also shortly after was Muncer brought, who in those troubles was exceedingly vexed, and troubled in himself. Nether was he able to rendre an account of his faith, as the manner was then. So that (to help him with) Henry Duke of Brun swick said it before him. And when he was at the point to die, he acknowledged his fault, and error, and that he confessed it openly. And being compassed about wi●h soldiers, he exhorted the Princes to have more pity on poor men, and so, they should not need to fear the like danger after. He exhorted them also to read diligently the books of the kings in the scriptures. when he had spoken these things, he was stricken with a sword, and for an example, his head was fastened upon aspeare, and set up in y● field. And thus did he end, & suffer for his offence which (as said is) he did openly confess. But yet alas his error, Historia Sleidan● libro deci●●. and pestilent doctrine did not end. For from him came forth a kind of men which for their doing, & doctrine, are called anabaptists. for they forbid the baptizing of children, and are themselves rebaptized, and so affirm they, that all others ought to be, and they take away all the virtue of the first baptism. The doctrine of anabaptists. They show forth a certain kind of holiness. They teach that it is not lawful for Christian men to go to law together. Not to require or take an oath, although by the magistrate it were required. Not to have any thing in proper, but all things to be common unto all. These be their first principles. But furthermore, they add yet much more grievous errors, as afterward I shall declare. And when they increased through all Germany, both far, and wide. Luther and many other learned men, earnestly with stood them, the magistrates also did so punish them that they could hardly increase to any greater number. At the last in the chief town of Westphalie, named Monasterium, or Monster (which is well fenced, they placed themselves, which happened after this manner: There is not far from the town of Monster a temple of Saint Maurice, in the which, one named Bernard Rotman did preach the Gospel in the year of our salvation. 1532. to a great audience of the Citizens: And when they were purposed to bring him into the town, the prelate's (purposing to let their devise) gave him a little somme of money, that he might go exercise himself in some other place. and so he did. But after he had been in divers places where he thought to do some good, and profile his spirit, he returned after certain months. But they (to whom his return was grievous) determined to let his preaching, but it was in vain, the people bore him such favour. Shortly after it came to pass, that certain of the chief citizens received him into the town, and when the church doors were shut against him, they made him a pulpit in the church porch. And because the number of the citizens, and other hearers increased daily, they desired of the Papists▪ that one of the temples might be opened unto him, which if they would not grant, they would make away in by violence. Not long after (by the counsel of the chiefest of the people, he sent letters to the country of Hesse, which was joining by, and under the government of the Landgrave, desiring that certain good, and learned men, might be sent unto him, which might with him preach the Gospel. And when there were six of them, whereof two were sent from Marpurge, they devised among themselves, how they might first overcome the clergy, by the which means the Gospel might with more fruit be taught. And to bring this to pass, this way was thought most convenient. They wrote out the errors of the Papists in thirty articles, and delivered them to the counsel, offering themselves to suffer any kind of punishment, if they were not able to prove by the holy scriptures, that they were all contrary to the word of God. The Magistrates sent for the Papists to come before them, and they showed unto them, those chief points of their errors. And when continually they alleged for themselves their doctrine to be pure, and agreeable to the word of God, and the preachers denied the same, and that they would prove, under the pain of losing their heads: It was asked of them, whether that they would by the word of God, confute those articles that were put forth against them: when after this manner it was asked of them, they seeing also that the rulers were earnest in the matter, in fea● words they answered: That they had nothing to defend themselves with all: and where as until that time, they had said that their ordinances, and manners were good, and lawful, they confessed their so saying to be but by by opinion and ignorance. Then the Senate seeing them to be convict, of false doctrine, and errors, having nothing to allege for themselves, and confessing their naughtiness, they commanded them, that from thence forward they should abstain from the office of teaching, and that they should give place in all their temples, to those new teachers, which had disclosed their trumpery, and de●cate. Afterward by the consent of the senate, and the people, there was appointed to every one of the preachers a several temple, to preach in. The Papists were grieved therewith, but specially the canons of the Cathedral church, which for the most part, were gentile men borne: they when they saw that they could not remedy the matter, they departed in a fume, and went to the bishop of that City. And after that they had counseled with him, they determined to stop all the ways, & passages, that there should no victuals be carried to the town. Shortly after they had thus stopped the ways, the bishop with the canons afore named, came to Telget, to counsel more fully of the matter, for that was ● little town but a mile from the City. From thence the● sent a messenger with letters to the counsel in these words: That they should give over their enterprise and restore all things to their formare state: if not tha● they would take them from thence forth as enemies. The Bishop was a county, and called Francis valdock▪ and his predecessor was named Friderick, brother to the Arch bishop of colen. This Bishop (either because he could not have his health in those places, or that he smelled some what in the matter) departed thence a little before of his own accord, and being content with a private life, he went into his own country. The people of Monster counseling upon this matter, kept the messenger. And upon Christimas even in the night, they went forth, to the number of 900, and coming upon them unwares they took the town, and setting keepers at the gates (lest any should escape) they apprehended all. The b●shope (as it happened) was gone from thence the day before. They brought all the captives into the City, amongst whom were the chief prelate's, and divers of the nobility. Of these the Magistrates asked, what their intent was, and whither they were minded to hinder the preaching of the Gospel any more: They freely answered, that they would do their diligence, that the Gospel might flourish. And by the occasion of this answer there was a paction made between them. The copy whereof, the magistrates sent to the Landgrave, desiring him, that he would assist them, in the maintenance of the Gospel, and their common wealth, Then sent he unto them, certain of his servants, through whose coming unto them▪ the peace was made, and being reconciled, and the grief trodden under foot, they lived in peace togethers: That the Gopsell might be preached in six churches, and that y● impieties, and superstitions, which were in religion might be taken away: That in the cathedral church, nothing should be changed, and that the citizens should not think that to appertain any thing at all unto them. This form of peace in writing was signed by the Landgrave, by the Bishop, and his adherentes, with the noble men, and all the people the 14. of February the year of our salvation. 1533. After this manner, things being appeased there came unto Monster a butcher of garments, named john Leiden borne in Holland, which was a vehement anabaptist. This man after he was entered into familiarity with the preachers, he privily asked of them, whether they thought, that it were meet to baptize children or no: and when they answered yea, he as one utterly of the contrary judgement, began to laugh, and despise their judgement, which thing, when ●●●nard Rotman of whom we spoke before perceived, he exhorted the people in his preaching to call upon God that he would give them grace to stand, and continue in the truth, and that he would keep them from being corrupt with heresies, and chief from the opinion of the anabaptists, which now privily do creep in among them, and gather themselves together. For (said he) if their opinion get the upper hand, the state, not only of the common wealth, but also of religion willbe very miserable, and poor. At the same time came to the town one Herman Stapred, which being made companion with Rotman did publicly inveigh against the baptism of infants. He was scolar unto one Henry of roll, 〈◊〉 Anabatistes ●rept in who a little before was put to death at Traiectine, for anabaptistry. And this was as it were an other step forward in this new kind of doctrine. This came to pass that the anabaptists taught through all the City, although it were in private houses, & secretly, and none was received of them, except they, that were of their sect. Further more there was none that made themselves known to be the authors of this opinion, nor they did not teach but by night, and when others were at their rest: which time they wrought their mysteries but the thing being known, and divers of the citizens being grieved at it, saying that it was a great shame that such new doctrine should be sown in secret, and by night. It came to pass that by the commandment of the rulers the captains of them were commanded to avoid the City, which going out at one gate, they came in again at an other, saying, that they had a commandment from God, that they should remain there, and apply their matters. This thing moved the rulers not a little, and caused no small wonder in the town. Therefore for the avoiding of greater tumult, and danger, the magistrates gave in commandment, as well to the anabaptists, as to the preachers of the Gospel, that they should appear before them in the counsel house, with certain other learned men. Then Rotman bewrayed his judgement, which until that time he had concealed, and condemned the baptism of infants, as a thing wicked, and abominable. But one named Herman Bush (chief) so defended the contrary part, that the anabaptists were commanded to depart out of the City, out of hand. And when they did all edge for themselves that they should not quietly pass through the bishops land, the Senate obtained for them a safe conduit, and gave them wherewith all to bear their charges. But they having long before determined not to departed from thence, to any other place (secretly returning to their companions) kept themselves closely for a time. The magistrates in the mean season, before that they came forth of their corners again, caused all the church doors to be shut, one only excepted. For it was to be feared, lest that the anabaptists, (who daily increased accompanied with their teachers) should drive the preachers of the Gospel out of their temples. After this in the month of November the Landgrave at the request of the Rulers of the City sent two preachers unto them, Theoderik Fabritius, and john Melsinger● but Melsinger seeing the trouble, and fearing the danger, returned home again. The other with great diligence, exhorted the citizens, that they should beware of the doctrine of the anabaptists, in this wise he ceased not to do his endeavour, until that the anabaptists, getting the upperhand, did drive the other out of the City, as afterward shallbe declared. And to make all sure, he wrote in a brief some the effect of the true doctrine, and ecclesiastical administration, the counsel and people appointing the same. Then by the counsel of the magistrates one Peter wirtan began again to preach, but he had not preached long, yer the anabaptists stirred up by Rotman, drove him away. who being more fierce than before, provoked Fabritius, and others to disputation, the senate agreeing thereunto, but under this condition that the disputation should be grounded upon the word of God, and other writings agreeable unto the same. in the presence of some godly learned men, which should be as it were arbitrers, who hearing, and trying the sentences, and arguments indifferently on both sides, might give judgement: and look what judgement they should give. that it should be agreed unto of all. By which means discord being taken away, the peace of the Church might be restored. This Codition Rotman, and his companions did refuse. when they craftily avoided to be bewrayed, they began openly to be contemned of the common people. But to wipe away this foul blot, they find out an other way, much more compendious. One of them (as if he were inspired with the holy Ghost) ●anne through the streets of the city, crying, repent you, and be baptized again, or else the wrath of God shall consume you. By this means there was a common tumult, and as many, as were rebaptized, cried after the same manner, as did the first: many fearing the wrath of God, which they so threatened to fall upon them (deceived of very simplicity, which otherwise were good men) obeyed them, and others did the same for saving of their goods. For after that the anabaptists had gotten the upper had of their adversaries, they dispossessed the of their go●des. This was about the end of december, and now came they again forth of their secret corners, of which we spoke before. And being gathered together in the market place, they made a gre●t shout, commanding all that were not rebaptized to be 〈◊〉, as pagans, and wicked persons After this they took the artillery, and munition of the city, and also the town house, not without doing violence unto many. The others on the other part, for sluing of them, & theirs from injuries, got them selves unto another certain place of the city, that ever was well fenced, and took many of y● anabaptists. This conflict against the anabaptists, which enjoyed the market place, and ●ad fortified it round, about continued so long, while pledges being delivered on both parties, This was a 〈…〉 they came to a composition, wherein was agreed, that every one should hold his religion to himself as him liked▪ and return to his house in peace. In the mean ceasor Rotma, & Bernard Knipperdoling, which was the chief author of this faction, although they seemed to have allowed this composition, yet notwithstanding they privily sent letters to villages about, willing all those that were of the●● sect, that leaving their goods behind them they should with all speed repair to the city to them, promising that what soever they should lose, should be restored unto them ten fold again many enticed through these great, and plentiful promises, came unto Monster, both men, and women with an assured hope to obtain no small benefit, but chief they of small substance, which were not ●ble to keep their houses. The citizens, and chief those that were of some reputation, when they saw that the city began to be filled with strangers they with drew themselves as well as they could, leaving behind them the anabaptists with the mingled people. This was in february about shrovetide 1534. Thus one party growing weak by their departing, the anabaptists chose new Magistrates, such as were of their own opinion: They made counsellors also, among whom was Knipperdoling. Not long after they invaded the temple of saint Maurice in the suburbs, and they burnt it withal the houses about it they spoilt all the temples about it also, and defaced the great church within. This done, they began to run on heaps about the city, in the streets, crying, first: Repent: and immediately after they cried, Hie you hence, ye wicked persons, except ye list to adventure your lives. At the same time they ran about the City in harness, and chased out of the City all such as were not of their sect, without any regard of age, or kind, after such a sort that in this turmoil, and hasty flight, many women were delivered before their time, and immediately they took the goods of those whom they had chased out. And although that this chanced the day before the bishope laid siege to the City, yet notwithstanding when certain of the company of those that fled, fell into the hands of the bishop, they were taken as enemies, of which company some were put to death, among whom were taken one or two preachers of the Gospel. And when Peter wirtam, of whom we spoke before, was in danger of his life, he was saved through the suit of the Landgrave. Now the residue of the towns men moved thereby, which were good men, beholding present damnger to fall upon them, though they would forsake the City, full fore against their wills (and as it were constrained) they tarried still. At that time their chief Prophet (for that name they usurped) named john Matthew commanded, that every one which had any gold, silver, or movable goods, they should bring it forth to be in common, under pain of heading. And to this use there was a public house ordained. The people was greatly astonished with this sharp commandment yet notwithstanding they obeyed it. And it was not best for any to use deceat in this thing, or to keep any part back for they had two prophesying maidens, which declared, if any deceat was used. And they were not only content thus to do with their own goods, but also they used the gods of others whom they had driven out, after the like manner. After this the same Prophet gave in commandment, that none should have, or keep to himself any book, saving the Bible, and that all other should be brought forth, to be razed, and destroyed: This commandment, he said, was given him from above upon this a great number of books were brought forth, and burned. It chanced, in that time, that a handy crafts man named H●bart Turteline, had spoken in mockage against those that called themselves prophets. This being known, they called the multitude together, and commanded them to come in harness and straight way they accused the man, and condemned him to death. With this the people was grievously moved, and stricken with fear. The chief prophet (afore named) took the poor man, which being down on the ground, he struck him with a spear, without giving him his deaths wound, although he ran upon him with a great violence. Then he commanded him to be carried into an other place, and taking a young man's half hake that stood by him, he shot him through, lying on the ground. And because that yet he died not out of hand, he said, that it was showed to him from heaven, that the time of his death was not yet come, and that God would pardon him of his offence. But the poor man within few days after died. When the prophet heard of his death, he took a long spear, and ran with it about the City, crying that God the father had commanded him to drive the enemy out of the City. And when he came near unto the camp, a certain soldier slew him▪ And notwithstanding that this was the second time of bewraying of their falsehood, yet the residue of his fellow prophets had so bewitched the people, and they so set out the matter unto them, that the common people took the matter very heavily, and said, that surely some great plague should fall upon them, for the taking away of so notable a man. But the next prophet after him, named john Leyden, willed them al● to be of a good courage: for (said he) it was long before showed me that he should die after that manner, and that I should take his wife in marriage. Two days before Ester they ran into the temples, and rang all the bells at once. Within few days after Knipperdoling prophesied, that those which were set aloft should be brought down, and the other should be exalted, from a vile, and base estate. After that he commanded that all the temples should be cast down, affirming with much gravity, that commandment to have come from God. Immediately the thing was obeyed, and that commandment celestial (as he termed it) with all diligence put in execution. About the same time, the forenamed john Leiden took the sword that served for the heading of the offenders, and gave it to Knipperdoling, and made him hangman, for so (said he) it was determined of God, that he which was one of the chief rulers before, and of the counsel should now be in the lowest place, and be made hangman. Knipperdoling was nothing offended with the matter, but took the office thankfully upon him. Now when the bishop had certain months borne all the charge of the siege himself alone, Hermannus the Archbishop of colen, and john Duke of Cleve sent him for aid, money, and guns with a certain company of horsemen, and footmen. The Archbishop of colen himself came also to the camp, to sit in counsel with them, and not long after, the city was besieged, in sundry places. And when there was no hope to win it by force, they made 7. rampers about the city, to keep it from victuales, furnishing them with footmen, and horsemen, which should remain there all winter. The bishop of Monster (for the maintenannce of the siege, and war against the town) required aid of the Princes about the Rhine, as the next neighbours, and to whom the matter also did be long: for which cause they gathered themselves together at a city Called Confluence, the 13 of December. 1534. After this unprofitable besieging of the city: john Leiden fell into a sleep, and dreamt the space of three days, and when he awaked, he spoke never a word, but only required, paper to be brought unto him, in which he wrote 12. men's names, among whom were certain of noble birth, which 12 should rule as chief heads, as it was among the Israelites: this he said, was the will of the heanenlie father. When as by these twelve there was a way made for him to be king, he put forth certain articles unto the preachers, and will led them, that if they could, they should confute them by God's word, or else he would publish them unto the multitude, and so of them they shoudle be allowed, and established. The some of them was this, that a man was not bound to one wife only, and it was lawful for any man to have as many wives as he would. But when the preachers withstood this sentence, he called them into the cossell house, and with them the 12 rulers. And when they were all come thither, he put of his cloak, and threw it on the ground, and with it the new testament: by those (as it were) signs, he testified, and swore, that article which he had put forth was revealed to him from heaven, and therefore with terrible words he threatened them as that God would not be merciful unto them, A sufficient assurance for anabab. unless they would allow them. At the length, they agreed, and the preachers for three days togethers, preached only of matrimony: Straight way john Leiden married. 3. wives, whereof one was she of whom we spoke before, the wife of the great prophet john Matthew. With this example, others did follow, so that it was counted laudable to marry o●ten. But divers of the citizens, that liked not their doings (asigne being given through the City) they called all the lovers of the Gospel into the market place. Then took they the prophet, and Knipperdoling, with all the preachers. which thing when the commonn people heard of, they armed themselves, and rescued those, that were taken, killing with great torment, to the number of fifty persons: for they tied them to trees, and posts, and so shot them through. For the great prophet cried, that all those that would do acceptable service to God: should throw the first dart others were killed after another manner. The 24. of june there arose a new prophet, which by his occupation wa● a goldsmith. This prophet called the people into the market place, and there he said unto them, that it was the commandment, and will of the heavenly father that john Leide should be the Emperor of the whole earth, and that he going forth with a mighty army, should kill all the Princes, and kings of the earth, showing mercy only to the common people (that is to say, all those that love righteousness) and that he should possess the seat of his father David, until the father should require the kingdom of him. For, said he, the wicked being put down, the godly shall here reign in this life. And when he had published these things openly, by and by, john Leiden fell upon his knees, and holding up his hands unto heaven, said, It was many days ago (my brethren) that I did know of this, but I would not declare it, and now God hath uttered it unto an other, that ye might the better credit it. This man obtaining the kingdom by this craft, immediately he put out of office the forenamed 12. And after the manner of kings, he chose unto him noble men, and commanded that there should be 2. crow●es of fine gold made for him, a sceptre, a skabbard, and chain of gold with other such like ornaments. Furthermore he appointed certain days, in the which he would openly hear all men's matters, that had any thing to put forth unto him. So often as he came abroad, he was accompanied with his officers, and noblemen of his court, next unto him followed 2. young men on horse back, and he on the right hand bore a crown, and the bible, the other on the left hand, a drawn sword. The pomp of his chief wife (for he had more at that time) was after the same manner. In the market place there was an high throne made for him, covered with cloth of gold. The actions and complaints that were brought before him, for the most part were of marriages, and divorcements, which then were most frequent, and after such, a manner, that not a few which had before lived togethers a long time, were then divorced. It came to pass, that on a certain day as the people were in the market place very thick, and thronging together to hear, Behold, Knipperdoling, leapt up, and creeping upon the heads of the people with his hands, and feet (for they stood so thick) he breathed in the mouth of every one of them, saying to one, after another, The father hath sanctified thee, receive the holy spirit. another day he leading the dance before the king, said, thus was I wont to do with my harlot, but now the father hath commanded that I should do the same before the king. But because he did it so often, and never ended, the king being offended went his way. Then hastily he went into the throne, and behaved himself like a king. But the king coming in the mean while, thrust him out, and caused him to be kept in prisonne three days. During the siege they set out a book, naming it the restitution, in which book besides other things, they say: The kingdom of Christ to be such afore the judgement day, that the elect, and godly shall reign, but the wicked, that they should be destroyed everywhere. Also that it is lawful for the people, to put down the civil powers: and that although the Apostles had no commandment to take jurisdiction upon them, yet notwith standing, the ministers of the church now, ought to take the sword into their hands, and by violence to set up a new common wealth. Also that none ought to be suffered in the common wealth, that is not a true Christian: that none can be saved, unless he put all his goods in common, without possessing any thing proper unto himself: that Luther, and the Pope be false prophets, and of the two Luther to be the worse: and that the marriage of those which are not illuminated by the true faith, is polluted, and impure, and ought to be taken for adultery, and for nication rather than marriage. Among other men Melancton, justus jonas, & Vrbanus Rhegius, withstood their doctrine, as it appeared by their plentiful, and excellent writings Within few weeks after the new prophet, of whom w● spoke before, blew a trumpet in all the streets and commanded that all the people should come in to the church yard of the great temple all harnesed: for the wicked were to be drive forth of the city. When they were come thither, they fond a supper prepared, and by commandment they sat down at the table to the number of 4000 After they had supped those that kept the watch about 1000 supped also. The king, and the Queen, with their household served, the supper being almost ended, the king gave bread to every one, saying: Take, and eat, show forth the death of the Lord. And the Queen giving them the cup, said: Drink, and show forth the death of the Lord. This being done, the new prophet (of whom we spoke before) went up into the pulpit, and asked of them all, whether they would obey the word of God or no. Whereunto when they had all said, yea, he said: The commandment of the father is, that there be sent forth 28. preachers which shall go into the four quarters of the world, and preach the doctrine that is published in this city. And then by order he named them, and the places, to which they should every one go, Syxe were sent to Osembirge: as many to warendorfe: eight to Sufat, as many to Cos●eld. The king, and the Queen supped afterward with the servitors, that had served at the table, and with them that were ordained to go forth. When supper was in doing, the king rose, saying, that he had a business to do, commanded him of the father, and by chance there was a souldioure taken whom the king accused to be a traitor as judas was, and with his owhe hand he struck of his head. This done, he returned to supper, and told merely of his goodly act that he had done. After supper, those 28. preachers were sent forth a little before night. And besides for the finding of them, there was given to each of them a piece of gold, with a charge, that wheresoever their doctrine was not received, they should leave those pieces, in a witness against them of their destruction, and everlasting damnation, because they had refused peace, and a doctrine so wholesome. When they came to the places appointed unto them, they cried in the towns that men should repent, or else they should perish out of hand. They spread their garments upon the ground, before, the Rulers, and cast upon them their pieces of gold, which they had received, affirming, that they were sent of the father to bring them peace, which if they would receive, than they willed them to put all their goods in common: and if they refused, then, by this sign, and (as it were) a mark, they would witness their evil deed, and unthankfulness. For behold the time (said they) spoken of before by the prophets, in the which God will that righteousness shall reign upon the whole earth, is come. And when the king shall have fulfilled his office, that justice doth rule in every place, then shall it come to pass, that Christ shall give up the kingdom to the father. They speaking after this manner, were taken, and (in the beginning by gentlnes, and afterwith torments) they being asked of their doctrine, & life, & of the strength of the city, answered, that they only had the true doctrine, which they would maintain with the peril of their lives. For (said they) from the time of the Apostles, the truth hath not been truly preached, nor any justice used: also that there were 4. prophets, two just, David, and john Leiden, and two unjust, the Bishop of Rome, and Luther, who was the worst of both. They being asked, why contrary to their promise they had driven the innocentes out of their City, occupying their goods wives and children, & by what place of the scripture they would prove that their fact to be well, and justly done? they answered, that the time was come, which Christ spoke of, anabaptists are as make as wasps that the meek should possess the earth, and that in like case God did give the goods of the Egyptians to the Israelites. Afterward they told of the munition, and victuals, that were in the city, and the multitude: and also that many in it had above five wives a piece, adding this, that they looked for armies of men out of Friesland and Holland, which when they were once come, the king would set forth with all his host, to bring the whole world under his power, and subjection, after that he had killed all the kings thereof, for not ministering justice. When they had been reasoned withal after this manner, The obstinacy of anabaptists and they continued in their purpose, and would acknowledge none other magistrate, than their king, they were all put to death, saving one that escaped. The City was so hardly, and so straightly besieged that none could either go in, or out. Wherefore the citizens fearing famishment, and seeing the danger that they were in, they thought to have taken the king, and to deliver him to the Bishop bound, but he getting knowledge, thereof, chose 12. out of all the multitude, such as he thought to be most faithful unto him, and called them captains, and to each of them he appointed certain quarters of the City to defend, and garrisons of men to keep the people from rising. More over he promised to all the multitude, that by Ester the siege should be removed, and that they should be delivered from the necessity that they were in. But unto them which he had chosen to be captains, he promised much more largely, that they should be lords, and governors over many things, naming the Towers and land that he would give to each of them. Also he said, that only the Landgrave should be pardoned, because he hoped that he would take his part. We spoke before of the Convention (appointed at Confluence) of the noble men, in the province of the Rhine, in the month of December. Unto which company (of his own good will) the Duke of Saxon Elector john Frederick joined himself. In this Session, it was concluded, that for the present aiding of the Bishop, there should be appointed forth 300. horsemen, and 3000. foot men, for six months. The County of Obersten named Vlrik was made general captain over this army▪ and of the whole wars. It was also there ordained, that the whole estates of the Empire should be desired to aid in this matter▪ and because the Emperor was in Spain, that Ferdinandus the king should be desired, for this matter to appoint a convention in the month of april. And also they sent letters unto the City besieged, willing them to give over their enterprise, being so unhonest, and wicked, as nothing could be more: which thing if they would not, neither submit themselves again under their lawful magistrates, they should be sure that the Bishop which now kept the siege, should have the whole help of the Empire against them. This was about the end of December. They gave answer the 13. of januarie, in the year of our Lord 1535. with many words, but nothing to the purpose, yet so, that they praised, and defended their enterprise: and as touching, that which was laid to cheir charge, for their creating of a king, they made no answer at all, but in private letters written to the Landgrave they laboured to excuse themselves, speaking many words of the slaughter, and destruction of the wicked, and of the deliverance and reign of the godly in this life: with these letters they sent also unto him the book, whereof we spoke before, called the restitution, and advertised him to repent, and not to make war (as did the other wicked Princes) against them, which were innocent men, and the people of God. The Landgrave when he had red their letters, & their book, he noted those points that were not allowable in the same, and gave charge to certain of his learned men, that they should answer them. And because they (in few words, and very darkly) affirmed their king to be more chosen of God, then by them, he asked them, why they showed not the places of scripture, which made them think it lawfully done, & why they confirmed it not before by some miracles, & signs above nature. For said he, God showed by all the prophets long before, of the coming of Christ, so that it was not only evident, of what house, and lineage he should come, but also in what time, and where he should be borne. They did also desire that their cause might come in question. Unto the which the Landgrave answered, that it was to late, seeing that they had taken the power of the sword into their hands, and had been the authors of so great calamity. For, said he, all men may plainly see, what is their meaning, to wit, the ruin of all laws, and common wealths: and as their beginning is wicked, & cursed, so also is the desiring of their matter to come in question, nothing but feigned, and dissembled: also that he had sent unto them faithful Ministers, by whom they were well, and godly instructed. but seeing they had refused their doctrine, giving over obedience to Magistrates, possessing other men's goods, having many wives, choosing unto them a new king, denying Christ to have taken the nature of man of the virgin Marie, affirming man to have free will, forcing men to put their goods in common, denying pardon to those hat sin: all these opinions to be utterly repugnant both to the law of God, and of man. After they had received this answer, they answered again in writing, & withal they sent a book, set forth in the dutch tongue, of the mysteries of the scripture. In their Epistle they published their cause again anew, and defended their doctrine to be good in their foresaid hook. They divided the whole course, and ages of the world into 3. parts, and the first age, as from Adam, until Noach to have perished with the flood, the second, in which now we be, to perish with fire: the third they say shallbe new, in the which righteousness shall reign. But before that the last age shallbe revealed, this that now is, must be purged with fire. But that (say they) shall not come to pass before Antichrist be disclosed, and his power be utterly put down: Then shall the ruined seat of David be erected again, and Christ shall reign upon the earth and all the writings of the Prophets, shallbe fulfilled: And as touching this present age, it is like to the time of the which Isai speaketh. For justice is put to silence in it, and the godly are afflicted. But now the time of liberty, and deliverance from so many, and great calamities is come, as it came unto the Israelites, being in the captivity of Babylon, and the wicked shall receive the full reward of their wickedness, as it is prophesied in the Apocalypse: but this restitution to go be fore the world to come, to the end that all the wicked being oppressed, the seat of justice might be prepared. When the Landgrave had red over their book, hegave charge to certain Ministers, of his Church to answer unto it. In February the famine was so great in the City, that divers perished with hunger. One of the kings wives, being stricken with pity towards the people, spoke by chance unto the other women, and said, that she thought it was not the will of God, that the people should so die for lack of sustenance, The king, which had good provision in the house, not only, to serve his necessity, but also to waste superfluously, knowing of this, he brought her into the market place, with all the residue of his wives, and there commanded her to kneel down upon her knees, and then he cut of her head from her shoulders: and yet not so content, after her death he defamed her with whoredom. This being done, his other wives began to sing, and to give praises to the heavenly father. Then dansed they, and the king led the dance, & he exhorted the people also (which had no other victuals left, save only bread, and salt, that they should dance, and be of good cheer. Now when the day of Ester was come, and that there appeared no sign of deliverance, the king, which had made them so many goodly, and large promises, that he might find some means to excuse himself with all, he feigned himself to be sick, six days togethers▪ which days being ended, he came forth unto the market place, and said unto the people that he had ridden upon a blind ass, and that the father had put upon him the sins of all the multitude, The simplicity of the anabaptists. so that they were all made clean, and purged from their sins, and that this was the deliverance promised by him, with the which they ought to be content. Among other things that Luthere caused to be printed, in that time speaking of those that were besieged in Monstere he said thus: Oh what shall I say, or how shall I bewail this unhappy people: the thing itself doth declare, that they be possessed with many devils, but we ought to give praise to the merciful goodness of God for although, that Germany hath deserved for the contemning of the Gospel, hatred of God's Name, and shedding of innocent blood, to be grievously punished by the hand of God, yet notwithstanding he hath bridled the force and violence of Satan hither to, not suffering him to rage at his pleasure: but hath mercifully warned us: and by this foolish tragedy of Monstere called us to amendment of life. for except that God did bridle him and draw him back, I doubt not, but that most subtle and crafty spirit would have handled this matter far otherwise. But now when as God hath thus restrained him he is not able to do so much as he would and as he desireth, but so far as God permitteth him, he fretteth & rageth. For the devil which desireth to destroy the Christian faith, goeth not this way to work to give liberty, for men to have many wives at once. for he knoweth well that men do abhor it, it is so open, detestable, and filthy a thing in all men's eyes, The Politic and civil government may this way be troubled: but to invade the kingdom of Christ withal, there must be other manner of weapons and engines used. for he that will go about to flatter the people by fraud and deceat, he must not be desirous to reign, not to declare himself a tyrant (for all the world reproveth that, and seeth to what end such enterprises do tend) but he must come by some privy means: as by holy speakings, his garments homely, and not like unto others, a grave countenance his head hanging toward the ground, in abstinence not touching money, not eating flesh, refusing marriage, esteeming civil government, and bearing of authority to be a profane thing, to refuse to bear rule, and to profess himself to be of a singular and lowly spirit: this (I say) is the ready way or means which may deceive even the very wise, and all by simulation and subtility to aspire to the highest reign upon earth. But to usurp authority with unshamefast extremity, and for filthy desire to take as many wives as he list, this is not the craft of any practised devil, but of some rude and late sprung up spirit, or at least if he be of any experience, yet God hath now so tied him in chains that he can no more subtly deceive: which thing the Lord doth to the end that we should reverence his Majesty, and that we should be first stirred up to repentance, before he let lose the bridle of some more expert devil, Let Germany adue●● for their Pr●ph●● speaketh which surely shall assault and besiege us much more sharply and with greater fury. For if this little master devil can stir up such a troulbe, what shall the great doctor devil of both the laws dowhen he shall come and practise all his power against us? Wherefore this homely devil that is of so small experience, is not of us greatly to be feared. And I do also think, that all the inhabitants of Monster do not allow their toying folly, but that diverse of them do greatly sorrow, wihch (not without many sighs and tears) do look for deliverance at gods hand, as it hath been seen afore in the seditions of the bowers. And I would to God there were no devil in the world of geater craft than this devil of Monstere is, provided that God take not his word from us. For I suppose there be but very few, that will give credence to this so gross and unlearned a master. But in deed when God is angry or displeased, there is no error so foolish, unlikely or out of order which Satan shall not persuade some to believe, as we see to be brought to pass in the doctrine of Mahomet. For though all their teaching is fond, yet not withstanding the light of God's word being quenched, it took strength, & hath spread forth itself so large and mighty, as we see it this day, and the like had come to pass in Germany, if God had not put down the enterprise and counsel of Muncere. For with the least spark that is, Satan can make a great flamb (if God do suffer him) and a better way to quench it withal there is not, then with the word of God. for when the weapons of the enemy are all together spiritual, he can not be overcome with a multitude of horses, or any engines of war. But our Princes and Bishops work otherwise. for they hinder the doctrine of the Gospel, which is the only way, whereby the minds and hearts of men may be healed. And in the mean time they violently torment them to pluck the body from the devil, leaving to him the principal part of man, which is his heart and soul, using the matter as the jews did, which thought to extinguish and put down Christ by the punishment of the cross. But now as touching the common brute and writings that go of Monster, I have no doubt, but that it is so as it is reported: and that which they themselves have written of late, maketh me fully to believe it, in which they paint out lively their own fury and madness. first of all they teach of the faith very foolish and absurd things, and of Christ as though he took not flesh of the virgin Marie and yet they confess him to be of the seed of David. But they utter not their minds fully: and without doubt Satan doth nourish some monster which may easily be perceived by this which they say, the seed or the flesh of Marie can not deliver us. But in vain is their travail, for the Scripture witnesseth Christ to be borne of the virgin Marie. Which saying in all languages is referred to the fruit, which being conceived and fashioned of the flesh and blood of his mother, is borne into the world. Also they show forth their ignorance, in that they condemn the first baptism, as a profane thing, esteeming it not as the institution of God, but of man. But if it be so that all manner of things ought to be condemned and put away, that either the wicked have or do give, then do I marvel that they cast not away the gold and the silver with the other goods, that they took from the wicked, and devise some other means to live by. for as these things be the creatures, and work of God, so is Baptism also. when the wicked man sweareth he abuseth the true name of God: and if the name of God be not true to him, than he offendeth not, he that killeth, robbeth or spoileth, he trasgresseth the commandment of God, but if the commandment of God be not true unto him, he sinneth not. Even so if the first baptism be nothing, than the receivers of it have not offended. wherefore then do they so much detest the first baptism, as a wicked thing, where as notwithstanding they affirm it to be nothing? Also if the marriages in times past ought to be taken as whoredom and adultery, as they say, because they were contracted of them that wanted faith, I pray you, do they not confess, themselves to be the children of harlots? Now if they be bastards and unlawfully begotten, how cometh it to pass that they enjoy their City and the possession of their fore fathers? It were meet therefore▪ seeing they be such that, they should have no enteres into the heritage's of their ancestors, but that in this new kind of marriage, that they are entered into, they should get unto themselves new goods and richesses, which might bear a more honest title. for it is uncomely for these holy and religious men that they should live with the goods of harlots, and miscreants, or that they should win them to themselves from others by violence, and robbery. And as touching their kingdom, which is to be laughed at, there is so much wickedness in it, and so manifest, that we shall not need to make many words of it. And truly for those things, whereof we have spoken, as we have treated more then enough, so also more than need, considering that it hath been so plentifully and largely set forth by others. Now when they in the City were come into this case, that diverse of them daily died for hunger, and that many also departed from thence, and came out so weak and feeble that the enemies had pity upon them, the captain sent word to the towns men that if they would deliver to them the king & certain others, they themselves should be pardoned. The citizens, although they had good will so to do, yet durst they not go about it, the cruelty of the king was so great, and the watch was kept so straightly: for the king was so obstinate, that as long as there remained any thing for him to eat and a few others, he was fully bend not to yield. for which cause the captains sent word again and commanded them that from thence forth, they should not send any forth of their city, not so much as children or women. This was in the kalends of june, the day following they made unjust compleining that their cause might not lawfully be heard, and that they were wrongfully afflicted above measure, also proffering themselves to submission, if any could show them wherein they offended: further more they expounded a certain place of Daniel, as of the fourth beast much more cruel than the others, the conclusion of their letters was this: That God aiding them they would stand to the truth which they had confessed, but all this was written at the king's commandment. Now when all things were come to the extremity in the City, there were two that fled from thence, of which one was taken of the soldiers, the other came to the bishop under safe conduct, both these showed, how the City might be taken. The bishop & the general captain hearing the words of these two fugitives, and weighing the matter, the xxii of june they talked with them of the City, advertising them to yield themselves into their hands, and to save the multitude, which perished with hunger. Answer was made in the presence of the king, by Roteman, that in no wise, they would give over from that which they had begun. Two days after about the● xi hour in the night the army came near to the City without making any noise: by the advice of the two fugitives, certain chosen soldiers passed the di●ch, and came to the trench, killing the watchmen: other followed after these, which found a little gate open through which they entered into the City to the number of five hundredth with certain captains and standards. Then they of the City came running unto that place, and with great pain kept they the residue of the army out which would have entered, and shutting the gate, they fell upon them that were come in with a great rage, and killed many of them. And when the conflict between them had endured two hours, very sharp and furious, the soldiers that were enclosed, did bur●t open the next gate which was not kept with any great strength▪ and so made they an entries in for their fellows, which straight way entered in by a great company. The citizens resisted them a little at the first brunt, but they gathered themselves together in the market place: & being in despair of any victory (many of them being slain at the first bursting in) they desired and entreated for mercy, which was granted unto them. The king and knipperdolin were taken the same time: Roteman despairing of his life, ran among the heap of the enemies, & was so thrust through, rather than he would fall a live into their hands. When the City was taken, the bishop took to him self half the spoil & the ordinance: afterward he discharged the armies, reserving only to him self two ensigns for defence Then was there an other convention of the Empire at Worms the fifteenth of julie, wherein king Ferdinandus by his ambassador proposed & demanded, whether any thing else were to be done concerning the rooting out of the anabaptists, seeing the town was already taken: he also advertised them that the Princes ought to ask counsel of the bishop of Rome: whereunto they answered that it was already provided by certain edicts, what was best to be done to the anabaptists, and that the Emperor had asked counsel of the Bishop ofter than once, neither could he do any more in the matter. In the same convention the Bishop of Monstere desired his charges & losses to be recompensed, compleining that the money promised was not paid. but when no thing else could be determined, few of the nobles being present, an other convention was called in the same place, the first of Novembre, wherein the things concerning the war and the charges thereof might be known, wherein also it might be decreed what form of common wealth were after to be established at Monstere. When the day was come, the Ambassador of king Ferdinandus briefly repeated the causes of that present convention, to wit, that among other things it might also be deliberated, how the City newly conquered, might from thence forth continue in the old religion. After these things the bishops legate showeth what great charges he was at, all the war time, how greatly he was indebted, & how it was necessary (the City being now taken) for the avoiding of tumults and other dangers, to build two Castles in the City, with strong holds▪ all which things he desired to be considered. To these things answer was made, that the Bishop had taken the greater part of the spoil with all the ordinance and goods of the citizens which wholly apparteined to the common wealth of the Empire, therefore that it was reason, the value should be counted and communicated with the charges, & what other things were necessary besides, should also be considered. After it was determined, that the Bishopric of Monstere should be under the Empire, after the ancient custom, and that all the nobility should be restored, and the citizens also which had departed to other places, so they were not anabaptists: that the Bishop should set forth the religion according to the decree of the Empire: that in the beginning of the next spring the ambassadors of the Princes should go to Monstere to know the state of the citizens and to keep them in safeguard, to pull down all the forteresses, which the anabaptists had erected, and & that the Bishop also should pull down the Castles which he had builded in the city, & that he should without delay put to death the king with knipperdoling, & Crechting, the prisoners without retaining them any longer. As for that which we said was determined of religion, the duke of Saxone, the Lantegrave, Wirtemberg and Anhold, testified openly that they would not consent, to it: the citizens also professed the same, neither would they have the old forteresses of the town destroyed, but they consented to the pulling down of the new. The king and his two fellow captives were carried hither & thither to the Princes to be gazed and laughed at, by which occasion the preachers of the Landgrave talked and disputed with the king, chief of these points, of the the kingdom of Christ, of Magistrates, of justification, of Baptism, of the supper of the Lord, of the incarnation of Christ, & of Marriage, and they prevailed so much by the testimony of the Scriptures, that although they did not altogether convert him, yet they so bowed and confounded him (notwithstanding his repugnance, and defending his opinions) that at the last he granted to the most part of all: which nevertheless, is thought that he did but to save his life. for when they came to him the second time, he promised, so he might be pardoned to bring to pass that all the anabaptists which were in great number through all Holland Braband, England, and Friesland, should keep silence, and in all things obey the Magistrates. Those same men also disputed with the kings fellows both by communication and writing, of mortification, of the Baptism of infants, of the communion of their goods, and of the kingdom of Christ. When they were come to Telgate, the Bishop asked the king by what authority he arrogated to himself such liberty over his City & people? who asked him again, An equal vocation of thee. who gave him authority & power in that City and when the Bishop answered that he obtained that jurisdiction by the consent of the congregation and people, even so, A●abaptist and Papist. saith he, was I called thereunto of God. Then were they carried back again to Monstere the twenty of january, where each of them were put in a several prison. The same day came the Bishop thither with the archbishop of colen, and the ambassadors of the Duke of Cleave with him, two days after they were exhorted by godly admonitions to convert from their errors. And in deed the king aknowledged his sin, and made his recourse to Christ by prayer, the other two would not confess that they had offended at all, but obstinately defended their false opinions: the next day after, the king was brought forth into an high place, and bound to a post, where were present two executioners with fiery tongues to torment them with all, the king at the three first pyntches of the tongues held his peace, afterward crying to God incessantly for mercy. When he had been torn on this manner for the space of an hour and more, he was thrust through the breast with a sharp sword and died. The same punishment also had his fellows, which being all dead, they were each of them bound in iron coffers, and hong up in the top of the tower of the City, the king in the midst higher than his fellowe● by the stature of a man. This fearful tragedy, in which gods most just judgements are declared doth teach unto us two things. The former, what may the innocent, and the godly look for, if ye may bring your enterprises to pass: and secondarily what doth the world & the rulers now in earth for the most part deserve. As touching you, how so ever for a time ye cloak your cruelty, what simplicity so ever ye declare in your external gesture, what so ever ye speak of charity and love, and how so ever ye seem to be zealous over the truth, yet shall you in the end produce no other fruit than these yours fathers have done before you. If that I list to note particular examples, I might show in your sect and amongst you to have been so horrible enormities as more horrible were never from the beginning: but lest I might seem to take any pleasure in accusing particular people, I will not at this present write all that I know. Only (I say) that the Church of God may look for no other thing at your hand, but for confusion of all gods ordinances, and for more cruel persecution then ever yet it did sustain since the days of the Apostles. for what your fathers began in Monster in their purpose, you do perform and finish: and to that end do you write your books, some calling all the Scriptures of God in doubt, some affirming that there is a more perfect knowledge, then that which is contained, or expressed in the word, some plainly denying the God head of Christ jesus, and of the holy Ghost, some claiming liberbertie, that no man should be troubled for his conscience, cloaking under that title all blasphemy, and diabolical doctrine. And you now last in accusing us of these most odious crimes, whereof we be most innocent, ye, and your brethren, I say, in teaching this your pestilent doctrine, and accusing us who gainstand your devilish errors, do plainly declare, what ye have already intended, if God by his great power bridle not your fury. And assuredly the world and the Rulers of the earth (for the most part) most justly deserve so to be entreated. As for the Church of God, it must be subject to the cross, even until the coming of the Lord jesus from the heavens. But the world I say, and the Princes of the earth (which is the● second point, which we have to mark in this former history) most justly deserve to be punished with such confusion as ye intent. For the one, and the other (I mean the Princes, and the people, conspired to this day against God, against his son Christ jesus, and against his eternal verity. They maintain impiety, superstition, and idolatry, they cruelly murder the Saints of God, and so do they rejoice in all kind of tyranny, that Gods just judgements can not long delay punishment. And therefore leaving you anabaptists into the hands of him whose power ye can not escape, I am compelled in few words to admonish you aswell the people, as the princes, that speedily ye return to the living God, whose verity so long ye have oppugned, whose religion ye gainstand, and true messengers, ye persecute, or else persuade yourselves that vengeance is prepared. He will not entreat you, as he hath done his afflicted Church, and dear children: that is, he will not call you to repentance by a fatherly correction, the end whereof shall turn to your comfort. Not so, not so, but as ye have still rebelled, and dishonoured him, so will he power forth contempt upon you, in the which ye shall perish both temporally, and for ever. And by whom doth it most appear, that temporally ye shallbe punished, of us, whom ye banish, whom ye spoil, and rob, whom cruelly▪ ye persecute, and whose blood ye daily shed? There is no doubt, but as the victory which overcometh the world is our faith, so it behoveth us to possess our souls in our patience: we nether privily, nor openly deny the power of the civil magistrate: we do not claim the commonalty of all things in this life: the plurality of wives we do abhor: we would not destroy gods ordinances, and Policy, by him established, in common wealths, but we hate, & detest all such confusion. Only we desire the people, and the Rulers to be subject unto God, and unto his holy will plainly revealed in his most sacred word. And therefore of us, I say, ye are and may be without all fear. But what ye may look for, if the anabaptists shall attain to their purpose: the confusion, and tyranny used by those of whom we have spoken, is▪ and may be a glass, wherein ye may see your judgement, & end most fearful, unless that unfeignedly ye repent. Flatter not yourselves, that ye be able at all times to prevail in battle by strength, because that in number ye be many, or because those Prices of Germany prevailed against that most miserable, & most wicked sort of enraged anabaptists. Consider, consider deeply in your hearts, that when God will punish, no multitude can resist. At that time God gave victory to the Princes, and did suppress the fury of those wicked men, not because the Princes were just, and had deserved such a benefit at gods hand, No, the most part were wicked, as their facts since have plainly declared. But God had respect to his own glory, and honour. He did admonish his elect by their examples to beware of such poison, and did also by such confusion, call you to repentance. Of late years before was the Euamgile of Christ jesus revived in Germany, the harvest of the Lord was not come to ripeness, & therefore for his own names sake he would not suffer that pestilence so suddenly to prevail. But now seeing that of so long continuance from wickedness ye proceed to open contempt of God, and of his true religion, shall he suffer you to rage without punishment? No, his justice can not. And what instruments can God, (I say) find in this life, more apt to punish you, than those that hate, and detest all lawful powers, and do thirst nothing more, than such confusion as before ye have heard? God will not use his saints, and chosen children to punish you. For with them is alaways mercy, yea, even although God have pronounced a curse, and malediction, as in the History of josua is plain But as ye have pronounced wrong and cruel judgement without mercy, so will he punish you by such as in whom there is no mercy. Tremble therefore, and convert unto God, if that ye think to escape vengeance, confusion, and shame, both temporal, and for ever. Now to the conclusion of your book. Thus ye finish. THE ADVERSARY▪ judge now gentle reader uprightly, The 47. section. and here I commit thee to God, beseeching him to open the eyes of thy mind, that thou mayest know the truth, in this, and in all other matters necessary to thy salvation. ANSWER. As you will all men to read, and to judge with indifferency, even so do we, requiring of God not only that so the eyes of men may be lightened that clearly they may see things appertaining to salvation, but also that by the mighty operation of gods holy spirit they may be confirmed, and so sanctified in his eternal verity, that to the end they may continue in the simplicity of his holy word and further, that all men may see to what confusion your doctrine tendeth, the ground whereof is your own vain imagination, and the end (as before we have said) not only the destruction of all gods ordinances, necessary for this present life, but also the treading under foot of the bright glory of Christ jesus. For the more that ye extol free will, and the virtues of man, the more do ye obscure the justice of faith, which only is acceptable in the presence of God, and the less do ye attribute to Christ jesus his death and passion. Yea, some of you are not ashamed in your envenomed doctrine, wherein secretly ye train your scholars, to affirm: That we that now live after Christ's death, have no other benefit, either by him, or by his death, but only an example to suffer as he did, O seed of the serpent thy father Pelagius was never so impudent, nether yet did ever the devil find any of his instruments (before thee) so bold, as that against the holy scriptures of God he durst affirm that horrible blasphemy. Darest thou deny, but that the death of Christ jesus shall to the consummation of all things have the same efficacy, that it hath had from the beginning? Did not Christ suffer for our sins, not for our example only but because we were not able to satisfy the justice of God which we had all offended, that therefore the punishment of our offences was laid upon him? Have we any more power now, then had his disciples to whom he said, without me ye can do nothing? Doth not he remain a sovereign Priest for ever, after the order of Melchisedech? Is it not he, who by one sacrifice made perfect for ever, such as either have been, are, or shallbe sanctified of that polluted seed, of Adam? Finally is it not he alone, who giveth liberty, salvation, and life to his body which is the Church, not in one age, but from the beginning to the end? Satan himself is compelled thus far to confess, and therefore be thou shamed (o thou blasphemous mouth). What other monsters ye nourish, and feed in the stinking den of your envenomed hearts, time will reveal. And if it shall please God to assist my weakness, I will not spare labours to communicate with my brethren, what pestilence lurketh in your envenomed doctrine, to the end that all the faithful may avoid the same. You fearing to forget any thing of your master Castalios scurrility, do thus conclude. THE ADVERSARY And as for you (Careless m●n) you ought to take it in good worth, The 48. section. what so ever I have said▪ first because it is truth. Secondly because, ye hold that all things, be done of mere necessity, then have I written this of necessity. ANSWER. To the which I answer, that if the devil were not a liar, and the father, not of lies only, but also of all deceitful liars, it were not possible, that you who in so many things have declared yourselves horrible liars should vainly brag that ye have written the truth. For besides those odious crimes, which most impudently, and most falsely you lay to our charge, amongst all the scriptures by you alleged, their are not three which ye do not abuse, yea and in some ye do so openly belie the holy Ghost that you conclude contrary to his expressed words. But when I consider, that your Master & father Satan himself, eshamed not in the presence of Christ jesus, to boast, and to brag, that all the power, and glory of the earth was given unto him, and that he gave it to such as best pleased him, when yet in very deed he had no power to give to his fellow angels, and companions of darkness licence to enter into the bellies of swine, till that he, and they were feign to beg that pleasant palace, of him, to whom all power is given in heaven, and in earth. When this I say, I do considre, I do more lament your miserable blindness, then that I can stomach against your vanity, except in so far, as to the end, I must say, that such as obstinately deny the plain truth of God, are liars, and the sons of that liar, who first deceived man, and powered into his heart the same venom, and error which this day ye teach, and maintain. For he was bold to affirm that wisdom and life was to be found by other means than God had determined, yea where God had pronounced death, and damnation, he promised salvation, and life, and so do you. For God hath appointed life to none of his elect, but in Christ jesus only, and that by such means, as in his holy word expressed, which are true faith, continual repentance, abnegation of ourselves, of our own justice, and wisdom, and finally by receiving (of free grace) in Christ jesus, whatsoever we have lost in Adam. But ye ashame not to affirm, that the justice of Christ sufficeth us not, except that we have a personal justice of our own. How coldly ye speak, or write of his death, of his resurrection of his mediation, and perpetual intercession, is evident. Your bragging and proud boasting of your own justice, and of your great perfection, are evident tokens how you do agree with Christ jesus the truth, and verity itself, who commandeth us to say (not for the fashion, but from unfeigned hearts) we are unprofitable servants. But some of you in your jesting eshame not to say▪ that ye are not two thousand passes, distant from the fullness of perfection. But this your vanity (your blasphemies excepted) doth not greatly offend us. For a small prick of of a pin, or of a nelde shallbe sufficient to declare that bladders (be they never so straightly blown) contain in themselves nothing but wind. That by necessity you have written your railing blasphemies, and most impudent lies we easily confess. For seeing that ye are the seed of the serpent (I mean such as in your error shall continue to the end) what thing can you else do, but of necessity spew forth vennom, when the weight of gods eternal verity beginneth a little to press down your head (for so doth the serpent whensoever she is touched) But why do ye not consider (seeing ye be reasonable serpents) that like as proudly ye lift your selves against the glory of the eternal Son of God, and as ye cease not maliciously to slander such instruments as in his Church be most profitable, and most wort high of praise in the eyes of all godly, that likewise of necessity it is, that ye come to ruin, that your pride be repressed, and your blasphemous tongues be confounded for ever? seeing that God, who hatch all iniquity, must needs resist the proud, destroy the lying lips, and remove from his society such as declare them selves enemies to his eternal verity, the knowledge whereof we confess with job cometh only by inspiration of the holy Ghost, and doth not proceed from flesh, or blood, from study, care, or worldly wisdom, but is the free gift of God revealed to the little ones, and commonly hid from the wisest of the world. Which sentence would God that deeply ye could weigh: for than I doubt not, but that ye should clearly see, that to come to Christ jesus, is nether of the runner▪ nether yet of the 〈◊〉, but of God, who showeth mercy to such as pleas●●● him, whose counsels eternal, and judgements, m●st profound, can no creature apprehend and compass, and therefore ought all the true servants of God with reverence, and with trembling say, O how incomprehensible are thy judgements o Lord, and how unsearchable are thy ways: for of thee, by thee, and for thee are all things. To thee be glory for ever, and ever. So be it. Isaiah. 54. EVERY TONGVE THAT SHALL CONTEND WITH THEE IN JUDGEMENT, THE SAME SHALT thou MOST RIGHTLY CONDEMN. Faults escaped in the printing. In the 24. page the 19 line not for nor. In the 33. page, the 4. line Curthe for Church. In the 95. page. the 17. line displease for displeasure. In the 117. page, in the margin good for gods. In the 153. page the 21. line through for thought. In the 193. page, the 32. line maciously for maliciously. In the 165. page, the 6. line yea for yet. In the 204. page, the 3. line thy pen for my pen. In the 263. page line 3. A scaoth for Asteroth. In the same page, the 16. line, yet the became, for yet he became. In the 199. page, the 24. line, and affirming for and we affirming. In the 312. page, the 34. line 24. for 23. In the 321, page, the last line, defaced for defaced to his uttermost. In the 322. page, the 18. line good reasonly, for goodly reason. In the 435. page, the 18 line cheir for their.