A PLAIN REFUTATION OF M. G. GIFFARDES reproachful book, entitled a short treatise against the Donatists of England. Wherein is discovered the forgery of the whole Ministry, the confusion, false worship, and antichristian disorder of these Parish assemblies, called the Church of England.  
Here also is prefixed a sum of the causes of our separation, and of our purposes in practice, which M. GIFFARD hath twice sought to confute, and hath now twice received answer, by HENRY BARROWE.  
Here is further annexed a brief refutation of M. Giff. supposed consimilituda betwixt the Donatists and us. Wherein is showed how his Arguments have been & may be by the Papists more justly retorted against himself & the present estate of their Church, by I. GREN.  
Here are also inserted a few observations of M. Giff. his cavils about read prayer & devised Leitourgies.  
1591.   

To the right honourable Pere and grave counsellor Sr. william CECIL, Knight of the most noble order, Baron of Burleigh, Lord high Treasurer of England, etc. grace & wisdom be multiplied from God our Father & from our Lord JESUS CHRIST.  Pro. 18. 17. justus qui primus in lite su●, donec advenit proximus eius & pervestiget illum. 
HItherto (Right Honourable) have our malignant adversaries had their full scope against us with the law in their own hands, and have made no spare or conscience to accuse, blaspheme, condemn & punish us, yea to pronounce & publish us as damnable heretics, schismatics, sectaries, seditious, disobedient to Princes, deniers & abridgers of their sacred power etc., to the ears & eyes of all men openly in their pulpits, and in their printed books, published by the consent & approbation of their Church. No trial all this while upon any suit or complaint granted us: Either civil, that we might know for what cause & by what law we thus suffer, which yet is not denied the most horrible malefactors & offenders: Or ecclesiastical by the word of God, where place & freedom might be given us to declare & plead our own cause in sobriety & order: that so the means appointed of God for our recovery might be used, and we (wherein we should be found to err or transgress) might be convinced to our faces by the scriptures, and left inexcusable. But in stead of this christian course, they have shut us up now more than three years in miserable & close prisons from the air, from all exercise, from all company or conversation with any person, from all means so much as to write, ink & paper being taken & kept from us, and a diligent watch both by our keapers held over us, and also continual searches upon one pretence or other made, where we were rifled from time to time of all our papers and writings they could find. And being thus straightly kept & watched from speaking or writing, their conscience yet giving them no rest in all their prosperity and pleasures, whilst we the Lords poor witnesses against their sins breathed (Not to speak of their secret & indirect means whereby they sought to take away our lives) they suborned (amongst sundry others) two special instruments, M. Some & M. Giffard to accuse & blaspheme us publicly to the view of the world, etch of them in two books, the one labouring to prove us Anabaptists, the other Donatists in the same. Which Books they have preferred especially to your Honour, as the chief obstacle that hindered them from their violent and bloody course, of the same intent (no doubt) that their predecessors the chief Priests and Pharasies accused our Saviour unto Pilate, and the Apostle Paul unto the Roman governors. Yet even all this, we hope, the Lord hath disposed to the further manifestation of his truth, by directing our adversaries to bring our criminations before your honour. Of whose wisdom & equity we have so great experience & assurance, as we can not from henceforth doubt to be condemned unheard, or to find therein worse usage, than our Saviour & the Apostles found at those heathen Rulers. Wherefore we addressed ourselves (by such means as the Lord administered, and as the incomomodities of the place, and the infirmities of our decayed bodies & memories would permit) to our defence, or rather to the defence of that truth, whereof God hath made & set us his unworthy witnesses, though as signs to be spoken against, and as monstrous persons in this sinful generation▪ And have hereunto undertaken Mr. Giffards' two reproachful blasphemous Books: Showing the true causes of our separation from the parish assemblies, confirming & approving the same to be both true and sufficient by sundry weighty reasons & express scriptures: Refelling by the like all the frivolous cavils and injurious slanders which M. G. hath there brought to hide their sins, deface the truth, and to defame us. As also showing such apparent dissimilitude betwixt the Donatists and us, both in the causes of our & their separation, and in the manner of our & their proceed, and in sundry errors they held, as no man of any knowledge or judgement before attempted, or shall hereafter be able (with any truth or conscience) to compare us unto them herein, or to excuse M. G. for this his unchristian dealing with us. All whose unsanctified reproaches wherewith his books through every sentence are seasoned in stead of better grace, hereupon fall to the ground, and remain upon his own, and not upon our account. This defence when when had through the merciful hand of our God finished, though not with any show of human wisdom or art, so much as in simplicity of the truth & innocency of our hearts, we held it our duty to present in like manner in alreverence & humility unto your honourable view & grave consideration. That both sides being heard according to equity, and our answeres as well as their criminations duly expended, your sentence, or at the least approbation, might proceed according to the truth. Craving herein no further favour, then according to the equity of our cause & innocency of our doings: Nor yet shunning any further trial of the one or the other, that your Honour shall appoint or think meet; whether with these our adversaries, or any other that shall be contrary minded, whosoever. Beseaching your honours pardon for this our bold presumption, the rather because such necessity was laid upon us by the hand of God, through the importunate challenges & insolent provocations of these our accusors: whose mouths must either be stopped, or else through our default the holy truth of God, which we believe & profess, yea & our innocency be betrayed to the perpetual infamy of these our reproachful adversaries, to our own peril and future judgement, to the scandal of all that profess the same truth with us, but chief to the offence and torning back of many, even of the whole land, from the straight ways of the Lord, even the ways of life and peace. All which mischiefs (we trust) shallbe prevented by these our simple endeavours, the Lord giving testimony and blessing to his own word: The truth whereof shall shine forth in our simplicity, the power thereof be made manifest in our weakness, to the discovery & reformation of these public enormities in the false worship, open sacrilege, antichristian ministery & heinous disorder exercised and soffred in this land, and to the discipation of all the delusions & vain promises and persuasions of these false prophets, wherewith they have a long time (for their own fleshly pomp and filthy lucre) seduced the whole land, drawn them into, and held them in the wrath & heavy judgements of God. That so the mighty hand of God working in the heart of our Sovereign Prince & Nobles, especially through your honours faithful counsel and furtherance; and also in the hearts of all the Commons, when the truth of these things shall be showed unto them, a general and sincere conversion to the Lord may be made, even from all things that now are, or hereafter shall be found contrary to his holy will, whither in the public estate of all, or in the private estate of any. For sure, as every particular person goeth forward from faith to faith as knowledge is increased, every day teaching other unto eternal life: So in the public estate of the Church no change that is made according unto the truth, as the public error is espied, aught to be held strange or dangerous. But most heavenly is that harmony, where all the members kint together in the same faith, both in general and particular, with one accord go forward in their callings and duties, still amending what is found amiss, and daily endeavouring to do better. Then should there not be found any such unchristian contention about the truth, pleading and spurning against the truth, or persecution for the truth. Then should the Lords dreadful judgements, which now hang over the whole land for these sins, be avoided, and his blessings in stead thereof be multiplied. But sure in the mean time until these sins be removed out of God's sight and redressed, there is no peace to be looked for or asked of the Lord, there is no pleading with or against him, howsoever the false Prophet may go about to heal the hurt of this people as a light evil, saijng peace peace when there is no peace, and to repair the breaches that are as the sea, with untempered stuff and vain visions tending unto abdication. Wherefore, to the torning away of so great evils, and the procuring of so great and inestimable benefits to our Sovereign Queen and country, as we have not withholden our utmost endeavours to the discovery of the public enormities & sins of these times, in all truth and freedom, being ready yet further to witness and approve the same, if such need be, to the face of our greatest adversaries and gainsayers, by the evidence of God's word: So now it remaineth that we instantly beseach your Honour, even in the name of God, before whom we shall all of us shortly appear to our account & judgement, by whom this charged is laid upon you (the cause being now brought, and by both sides, aswell our adversaries as us, laid open before your Honour) that you would now be a means to her right excellent Majesty that these weighty and dangerous matters may be no longer wrapped up or put off in security and silence (lest these our soffrings and testimonies rise in judgement with this generation) but may rather be further inquired and discussed, and order and redress taken according to the will of God. Which shall no doubt torn to the high glory & most acceptable service of God and of your Prince, to the unspeakable benefit of this whole land, and to the happy discharge of your duty and conscience to your eternal praise in this life and in the life to come.  
Your Lordship's most humble & addict in the Lord. HENRY BARROWE & JOHN GRENWOOD for the testimony of the gospel in close prison.   

Wisdom to the Reader from the Father of lights, to discern of these times, and to judge of themselves what is right.  
seeing the scripture speaketh evidently of the general defection & apostasy under Antichrist, 
Math, 2 4.  and of the abominable desolation & havoc that he should make in these dangerous & latter times: 
Mar. 13. Psa. 74. Dan. 7. 9 & 11  where the sun should be made black as a sackcloth of hair, the Moon be made as blood, 
Cap. 2 Thes. 2. 2 Tim. 3.  the Stars cast to the earth, the Heaven depart away as a book wrapped up, every mountain & Isle be moved out of their place. 
Revel. 6.  And all these things are most particularly & most lively described in the book of the Revelation: Of Antichrist's beginning, 
Revel. 8.  increase, exaltation, abolishing. How a great part of the trees & all green grass should be blasted, a great part of the sea become blood, and of the creatures that lived therein die, and a great part of the ships thereof be destroyed; the third part of the rivers & of the fountains of waters be turned into worm wood, and many men die of the bitterness thereof. 
Revel. 9  How that fallen apostatat Star should open the bottomless pit, the sun & air● be darkened with the smoke thereof, the earth pestered with the swarm of poisoned stinging Scorpions, & crowned armed Locusts that came out of the smoke of the pit: and of those innumerable warriors upon those strange horses that destroyed such multitudes of men. How the Beast should get unto him many heads & more horns, 
Revel. 13.  and upon his horns Crowns: how he should be enthronized, receive the Dragon his large power & high Commission: how he should war with the Saints, and open his mouth into blasphemy against God: how he should erect his Image, and give his mark: how he should kill as many as will not worship his image, and suffer none to buy or sell, but such as receive his mark. How that great harlot that sat upon many waters, so gorgeously arrayed & adorned, the mother of all the whoredoms & abominations of the earth, with that golden cup full of abominations & filthiness of her fornication in her hand, 
Revel. 17.  wherewith she made drunken all the inhabitants of the earth, should sit upon the Beast, and be made drunken with the blood of the Saints and Martyrs of JESUS. And yet further: How the vials of Gods wrathful judgements should by his faithful messengers & witnesses be powered forth upon the earth, upon the sea, upon the rivers and fountains of waters, 
Revel. 16.  upon the Sun, upon the throne of the Beast, upon the great river Euphrates, and into the air with the peculiar & fearful plagues denounsed & to be executed hereupon. As also how the great Babylon should be discovered, 
Revel. 18.  forsaken, pleaded against, condemned, consumed, fire cast upon her & all her wares, the great millstone upon her & all her children & inhabitants to press her down to hell. 
Revel. 19  To conclude: How Christ himself & his holy army mounted upon the white horse of his word, should war against the Beast, and against the Kings & nations that were gathered together by the false Prophet into battle against Christ & his army, how he should smite the heathen with the sharp sword that issueth out of his mouth, rule them with a rod of iron, and tread them in the winepress of his fierce wrath: how he should give the flesh of all this people with their Kings, Capitanes and mighty men as a pray to the fowls the unclean spirits: and how he should take the Beast, and with him the false Prophet that wrought signs before him, wherein he deceived them that received the Beasts mark and worshipped his Image, and cast these both alive into that lake of fire burning in brimstone. Who now (if not such to whom the scriptures are hidden, 
●●uel. 12. 14  and this Book sealed) could in this general falling away from the gospel, this general departure of the true established Churches out of the inhabited, this universal corruption & confusion of all estates, degrees, persons, callings, actions, both in the Church & common wealth, in this estate, in this defection, seek for or plead for a true visible established Church, the true ministery of the gospel, true worship, ministration, sacraments, government, order? Or who (that were not drunk and had all their senses bound & intoxicate with the whore's cup) could affirm this confuse Babel, these cages of unclean birds, 
Revel. 18.  these prisons of foul & hateful spirits, to be the Spouse of Christ, the congregations of the Saints, the true established and rightly ordered Churches of Christ? Is it likely that these men have as yet read the whore's mystery written in her forehead, or as yet know what belongeth to the true established Church, worship, administration, sacraments, ordinances, government of Christ? though they have in his Testament which is daily read amongst them, an exact & absolute parterne of all these things before their eyes: And have not in their Churches any one thing in their practice and proceed, not one pin, nail, or hook according to the true pattern: Yea, though they hear the trumpets of the Lord blown against them, though they see the viallz of the Lords wrath powered upon them, and all their doings, yet stop they their ears & wink with their eyes, lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears and understand with their hearts, and be converted & healed: And therefore are so far from finding place to repentance, 
Revel. 16. 2.  that they open their mouths into blasphemy and railings; especially these men that have the mark of the Beast, upon whom that evil & malignant sore is fallen, as you daily see and hear in their books & pulpits. And how well these governors, mariners, merchantmen, and all that traffic on this sea can endure the borning of these their pleasant gainful wares, how they wail, howl, and cry out when this heavenly fire is cast out into their ships: Let the behaviour of these bishops their hierarchy and Priests towards the servants of God, that speak against their Antichristian proceedings, show, and how they bestir them to quench the burning of the harlot, smiting & rending Christ's poor witnesses with tongue, tooth, and nail, casting out of their mouths a flood of railings, 
Revel. 12. 15  reproaches, slanders, criminations against them of poisoned bitters waters, corrupt doctrines, blasphemous opinions, unsufferable perverting & abusing the scriptures to hide tollerat or defend the antichristian forgeries, abominations, disorder & enormities of their Church & ministry, that are discovered & condemned by the word of God in the mouths of us his simple witnesses.  
Of this sort (amongst many other such like) are two books notoriously infamous, lately published by one George, Giffard, a Priest of their orders, against certain christians, whom he calleth Brownists, Donatiste. In the one of these Books he laboureth to defend & clear the parish assemblies of the Church of England, of such heinous crimes as the said christians object against them, and forsake them for, witnessing & suffering in bands & persecution against the same under the hands of those popish Prelates & Romish Priests. In the other Book he endeavoureth to recover the blame he justly suffered in the first for reproaching, slandering, blaspheming, accusing these faithful and innocent christians, applijng himself to prove them Donatists by comparing together them from point to point. Both which Books are here answered, and now at length published to the perusing & judgement of all men. Where they shall see how well he hath delivered and acquitted their Church, in the first: As also how justly he hath proved his charges, accusations, and blasphemies in the first & second.  
The ●ower principal transgressions wherewith we charge, and for which we forsake these parish assemblies: Namely, the profaneness, wickedness, confusion of the people which are here received, retained & nourished as members. The unlawfulness of their whole ministry which is imposed upon them, retained & maintained by them. The superstition & idolatry of their public worship in that devised liturgy which is imposed upon them. And the forgery of their antichristian ecclesiastical government, to which all their Churches stand subject, are such and so apparent, as not only prove these parish assemblies not to be true established Churches of Christ: But if it were admitted (which can never be proved) that they sometimes had been true established Churches; yet these transgressions obstinately stood in and defended, are sufficient causes of our separation from them in this degenerate estate. For where such profane confuse multit●des without any exception, separation, or choice, were all of them immediately from public idolatry at one instant received, or rather compelled to be members of this Church in some Parish or other, where they inhabited, without any due calling to the faith by the preaching of the gospel going before, or orderly joining together in the faith, there being no voluntary or particular confession of their own faith and duties made or required of any; and last of all, no holy walking in the faith found amongst them. Who can say that these Churches, consisting of this people, were ever rightly gathered or built according to the rules of Christ's Testament? Or who can say that this people in this estate are the communion of Saints? Or who (without sacrilege) in this estate can administer the holy things of God unto, or in the same communicate with this people? Likewise, where these parishes have a false & antichristian ministery imposed upon them, who can say that they are the true established Churches of Christ? to the building & ministery whereof Christ hath ordained, instituted, and prescribed a certain ministry unto the worlds end: Or who (without sacrilege) may join unto, or communicate with a false & antichristian ministry? Christ also hath given unto his Church perpetual and all-sufficient rules in his holy word for the whole administration & government of his established churches, to which they are bound, whereby they ought to build, proceed and walk. Those Churches than that receive an other liturgy, an other foundation, other rules for their administration & government, cannot be said the right and true established Churches of Christ. Neither may any faithful man join unto them in this administration & government, without heinous impiety and denying the faith. The more particular proof aswell of these Arguments as of these transgressions, ensue hereafter in this treatise. These reasons all men may see prove directly these Parish assemblies not to be the true established Churches of Christ to which any faithful christian may join himself in this estate; especially, when all reformation unto the rules of Christ's Testament is not only denied, but resisted, blasphemed, persecuted.  
How then are M. Giffardes' eyes bound and covered with the spirit of slumber, that still dreameth of a true Church, ministry, sacraments, worship, government in this estate; and will not be wakened by these reasons, or any thing that can be said or alleged against their ungodly doings; though he can neither approve these his strong conceived imaginations by the rules of God's word, nor disprove these evident charges in the four principal transgressions by us alleged against their parish assemblies. Which yet he endeavoureth to put away & shift off by shameless slanders & open untruths; giving out: That we condemn a Church, for that wicked men come with the godly to the public exercises of religion: For that there are some ungodly men of the church: For that there are some wants in the calling of the Ministers, and in the outward discipline: As also, some imperfections or corruptions in the worship, which are not fundamental. The untruth whereof, our very Propositions (though we should no further answer) showeth to his face: Where we charge, and the word of God condemneth their assemblies, for that they consist of profane multitudes never orderly gathered unto, or walking in the faith. There shall whilst the Church consisteth of mortal men always be wicked in the Church. But Christ hath his fan in his hand to make clean his barn floor: And hath given power & commandment to his Church to cast out the wicked from amongst them. We acknowledge that the Prince ought to compel all her subjects to the hearing God's word in the public exercises of the Church: yet cannot the Prince compel any to be a member of the Church, or the Church to receive any without assurance by the public profession of their own faith, or to retain any longer, than they continue & walk orderly in the faith. Again, we condemn not their assemblies for some faltes in the calling of the ministry; but for having & retaining a false & antichristian ministry imposed upon them: Such we here prove their whole ministry to be in Office, Entrance, & Administration. In like manner, we forsake not their assemblies for some faltes in their government or Discipline; but for standing subject to a popish and antichristian government. And such we here prove theirs to be in the officers, Courts, proceedings. Neither refreigne we their worship for some light imperfections (as he saith) but because their worship is superstitious, devised by men, idolatrous, according to that patched popish portesse their service book; according unto which their sacraments and whole administration is performed, & not by the rules of Christ's Testament. Such we here prove their book, worship and ministration to be?  
We also before set down unto him sundry popish, idolatrous, & blasphemous abuses in their worship & ministration: As their Idol Lent, Ember & Eve Fasts; their Idol Feasts, popish & jewish Easter, Pentecost, Christmas &c. their Idol Lady days, Saints days, Innocentes days, Angels days, Soul days: Their false manner of administering their Sacraments with such idolatrous & Popish ceremonies & trinkets, the Font, sign of the Cross, Gossips etc.: Their midwives baptism, Confirmation: Their housling the sick with the other sacrament: Their juish & Popish ceremonies, vestures etc.: Their Purification, Offertories, Crismes etc.: Their marijng, burijng, limiting or conjuring the fields, made a part of the public worship, and of the Pastors office etc. These abominations M. Giff. will at no hand have called popish, idolatrous or blasphemous: We impudently lie, & unsufferably slander in so faijng. He therefore endeavoureth to purge them of all popish & superstitious opinions & abuses, showing how clear the Church of England is of the same. Yet will not M. Giff. be thought to plead for or justify any public abuse of the Church, but only to plead against the Brownists that speak worse of these things than they are: For these are no fundamental errors, such as pollute the worship, but only light imperfections etc. Well, we will refer the discussing of the nature of them how heinous they are, unto their due place. Only here we would know of M. Giff. what foundation these things themselves have in the word of God, and what warrant he can there show for them. If he can justify them by the word of God, then verily our offences are no less than he hath said, that blame them to be idolatrous, popish, blasphemous. But if these trumperies have no foundation or commandment in God's word, but are the devices of men; then we would know whither, God requireth or accepteth such worship at their hands? And whither, being made the public worship of God and administration of their Church, they be not idolatry? And then how they may offer, or the faithful be constrained to such idolatry, to such worship, as God neither requireth none accepteth. And with what conscience he can, or how he dare stand a minister of that liturgy and worship, which the cannot approve by the word of God, and which he would not be thought to allow of, the abuses thereof being so manifest & odious in his own eyes. Especially now with what conscience he can thus blaspheme & condemn us for refreining that worship which he cannot approve, and doth not allow: Or how he can so earnestly inveigh against those most forward and zealous hearers, who though they will hear their sermons, yet withdraw from the book service, for the errors and evils they see therein. This M. Giff. in the Epistle to his second book, saith, is a more grievous sin than they suppose. In deed, if the poor souls knew what they did or ought to do in refreining the public false worship of the Church, they would and could have no spiritual communion with those ministers or people that still exercise and will not be withdrawn from the same false worship, which they condemn & forsake; nor yet would or might they hear their learned sermons that are joined & conformed to the same idolatries and abuses. But to the matter; until M. Giff. can prove by the word of God this public worship and administration according to their service book in those points wherein we blame them, there is no cause he should exercise it himself, allure others thereunto, or condemn us for refreigning the same as we are commanded of God in as many places as true worship is enjoined, and false worship forbidden. In all this than he but bewrayeth his own shame & hypocrisy in condemning & blaspheming us for doing the will of God, in alluring others to false worship & idolatry; and in doing that himself for filthy lucre & fear of the world, which he for shame of the world dare not allow, neither can justify. Yea, & whatsoever he colourably pretendeth & aledgeth in his second Book to cover & excuse the shame & infamy of his former; yet is he become an earnest pleader for all the corruptions and abuses of his Church, not granting unto us any one of the abuses we reprove to be unlawful & ungodly, lest we should thereupon urge him to have the same left & refreined (though not publicly put down & reform as he accuseth) by the faithful: and so they should be condemned for the practice, and we justified for the refreining these things. Therefore he is driven to plead for, mitigat, excuse, to tolerate with his uttermost shifts & cavils all these abominations whatsoever. Which yet are so heinous and of so high a nature, as no pretexts of the Princes or church's power, of ceremonies of things indifferent, no distinctions of substance & form, of fundamental and not fundamental errors & corruptions etc.: can hide, but the are found heinous transgressions of the law of God, detestable abuses of the worship of God. And he in practising and pleading for them is found but as the Dog returned to his own vomit; as the false Prophet that teacheth the Prince to set a scandal before the people, and that seduc●th the people to eat their Idolothites.  
Yea, he is yet further driven, openly to justify the ministry and regiment of these Arch & Lord Bishops and their hierarchy to be of Christ against which he erewhile also amongst the rest of that faction was an earnest ●utor to the Parliament to have them utterly removed out of the Church and abolished, their Offices, Ministry, Courts, Government, which could not be done without most heinous impiety, open barbarity & violence to the Church and unto Christ himself, if they had been of Christ, as he now pretendeth. Again if they were not of Christ but of Antichrist (as they all of that sect then upon certain knowledge and assurance affirmed) how, and with what conscience could the Reformists themselves submit unto their decrees, power & government, receive their ministry of them, exercise their ministry under them, swear & perform their canonical obedience unto them? Let M. Giff. with all his cunning reconcile this in truth & good conscience; howsoever he hath reconciled himself to that apostatical throne, from which he was revolted: And in testimony of his unfeigned fidelity and in hope of some promotion, hath written these blasphemous books in ●his gracious Lords defence, against the Brownists; yea and rebuked in the Epistle to his second Book all such as speak against the bishops etc. which yet shall never be able to hide or excuse his open contrariety, perfidy, apostasy, yea that which yet is more fearful, his open restraint, blasphemy, and despite of that truth which he sometimes gladly acknowledged & professed. Unto all which he is driven, by opposing himself against these Brow●ists in the defence of their worship, liturgy & ministry, which all should fall to be the ground with their Lords the Bishop's throne. For if they fall out to be antichristian & no true ministers according to the rules of Christ's Testament, them must that ministry which is made by them, standeth subject unto them etc.: need● be antichristian also: Then have they & their ministry not to intermeddle with the government & administration of Christ's church; much less to make them laws a liturgy & worship.  
Neither stayeth M. Giff. himself here in the defence of this present worship, liturgy, Hierarchy, Courts & their proceedings, ministry, and their administration, but yet is driven for the defence of all these, to justify the Church of Rome (even in their greatest & deepest aposta●ie) to be the true visible established Church of Christ, to have the true seal of the Covenant etc. And in deed this it standeth him upon to prove, seeing their whole ministry were immediately derived & received from their mother of Rome, as also their whole government, Courts etc.: and no small part of their worship & ministration together with the whole people, Parishes & Synagogs' as they now stand. He wanteth not learned proves to bring this about: As that the Apostasy should arise, and Antichrist sit in the Church of God. Yea he proveth both the Church of Rome & of England at once by the schism of Israel, the apostasy of juda etc.: which yet in those estates were pronounced Churches by the prophets. He proveth them within the Covenant by the second Commandment, where the promise is made to the thousand generation. As also by the greatest corruptions and faltes that he can anie where read, of the primitive Churches. These miserable reasons & examples are the main pillars & ground-worckes of all their buildings, and his writings; which being pulled down, their whole frame falleth to the ground at once, and is irreparable. For this I refer the Reader to their due place in the second Transgression, where they are largely refuted & answered.  
another pitiful reason he bringe●h in his poem to the Reader, of an human body consisting of maimed or deformed members: Which yet so long as life remaineth in it, is said an human body. So the Church, though it consist of maimed & deformed members, yet whilst it hath the life, viz. true faith in CHRIST in it, it is to be held a true Church. I will not here stand to show how untowardly he hath drawn this comparison beyond the Apostles scope & proportion Rom. 12. Nor yet how many errors & inconveniences would ensue of such racking of Allegories. Only to his reason we answer; that if in his first Proposition he mean by deformed members, such as have not their right & true shape that God hath appointed to human members, but a strange & diverse form; 
Revel. 13.  as the feet of a Bear, the mouth & teeth of a Lion, though it have the face of a man, 
Revel. 9  the hair o● a woman etc.: then hold we it not a natural, 
Revel. 17.  but a monstrous body. So we say, that to the heavenly body of Christ may no monstrous deformed strange members be joined, but only such members unto the public ministry as are described Rom. 12. Neither may that heavenly edifice be built of any other the living, holy, precious stones 1 Pet. 2. or be built in any other form, then that Christ hath prescribed, and the master builders left unto us in his Testament 1 Cor. 3. They that misbuild the Temple of God, destroy it: And they that destroy the Temple of God, them shall God destroy. Now then to his inference of instance. We deny this body of their Church to consist of these true members spoken of Rom. 12. Neither of those living precious stones 1 Peter. 2. Neither to be built according to the true apostolic pattern 1 Cor. 3. But to consist of those monstrous members Revel. 9 & Revel. 13. and of those profane multitudes Revel. 17. 18. Remaining in confusion & disorder Revel. 18. 2. And therefore not to be held the heavenly body of Christ, but that monstrous body of that Beast: Not that holy Spouse of Christ, but that adulterous harlot: Not that compact City, that heavenly jerusalem, but that confuse Babylon. Further, to that faith & life of the Church he speaketh of; we confess indeed, to the stopping of his slanderoous mouth that so untruly chargeth us, that no sin or sins in any Church or Christian can disannul the Covenant, where this true faith is found. But this we say, that true faith may not be severed from true repentance, even of all things ●hey see to be contrary to God's word. 
Rom. 2.  True faith may never be severed from true obedience of whatsoever is showed to be the will of God in his word: 
〈◊〉. 2.  Faith without works is dead. Now then to the faith of the Church of England, we find it without works, we find it without repentance. 
Tit. 1. 16.  In their works (as the Apostle saith) they deny God, howsoever in words they confess him; 
2 Tim. 3. 5.  in their deeds they are abominable & unperswaded to every good work; howsoever they make a show of godliness, they deny the power thereof. Yea so far are they from suffering their works to burn, 
1 Cor. 3.  being showed and reproved unto them by the word of God, as they smite, persecute and blaspheme with all hostility and reproach those that but show and reprove their sins. How then should they be thought to have this true faith, this true life in them? But the faith of their Church remaineth to be further examined & discussed in this Book, whither I refer for further trial.  
And now if this verbal faith & confession of justification by CHRIST, only make a Church & a Christian (though they err & transgress in many, yea in any other thing) as the life doth make a man etc., how may we, that profess this faith & make this confession, be by M. Giffard accused, pronounced, condemned, divulged as damnable Heretics, Brownists, Se●ismaticks & c? Shall this faith give life unto them, and not unto us? Or will he slay them that Christ giveth life unto? And that before any due conviction of any one error or transgression deserving these hard censures & sentences. May he not evil accuse us of rash, furious, disorderly dealing, that thus uncharitably accuseth, condemneth, smiteth, before any trial? Yea, that thus presumptuously runneth before, and forestalleth the judgement of their own Church, pronouncing & divulging us damnable heretics & schismatics, before their Church had detected, convinced & rejected us for any one errot. As to the heresies he accuseth us of, Namely, to hold an 〈◊〉 perfection in this life & immunity from sin & from the superior powers that God hath set over us. When he shall be able to show by any one sentence in our writings, or but necessarily to infer from the same, that we hold these heresies: Let us then be held such, and M. Gi●●ard no accuser and slanderer. But if the contrary appear in all our writings and doings, then is it evident that he hath most maliciously slandered us, to bring us in hatred with our sovereign Queen & the whole Land. We may evil be accused to hold the error of perfection, for blaming their Church for such heinous transgressions. Or of anabaptistical freedom, for not being subject to their antichristian yoke. Or for using the 4 & 5 Chap. of the Epistle to the Ga●●at. against their burdenous and ungodly traditions. These causes & scriptures will not bear up M. G. his malicious suspicions & charges. Neither if we held these detestable heresies, could our sins or errors either excuse or lessen these transgressions of theirs. It is a bad foundation to build his credit upon the ruins of other men's; especially by such detraction & slander.  
The Schism he chargeth us with, hath as little ground or colour of truth. We willed him long since to prove these Parish Assemblies in this estate true & established Churches, and then we would show him how free we are of schism. We depart not from any part of the truth, or from any that will walk holily & orderly in the same. The cause● of our separation from these Parish assemblies we have showed to be such as prove them no true established Churches of Christ, or such where the faithful may abide with any promise or comfort. In separating from them than we have not rend ourselves from the Church or body of Christ, but rather separated the Church from them: and obeyed the commandment of God that calleth us out from amongst them. Again whilst M. GIFF. standeth so much upon the name of a Church, and giveth the same to the Romish Sy●●gog in their deepest apostasy, how will he escape himself, or clear the Church of England from the blot of Schism, for separating and withdrawing from the Church of Rome? Any excuse that he can make or devise, will clear us as well as themselves. Let him look therefore to the measure he meateth, lest it be measured unto him again with the same, not only in this matter of Schisine, but even in that especial point of Donatis●rie, which he of a singular judgement above all others of this time hath espied out, and taken no small pains to compare and liken us unto them from point to point. Forgetting in this heat of zeal and acu●●inat pregnacie of his, how the Papists have continually battered them with the ●ame ordinance, with much greater advantage than he hath us: In as much as he confesseth the Church of Rome the true established Church of Christ, with the true ministri and true seal of the Covenant etc.: And in that they still retain the same ministry, Government, Courts, Officers, Canons, Orders, Parishes People, Synagogs' etc., that the Papi●tes used & left in this Land, as the Dovatists, did. Whereas we on the contrary do not separate for the same causes, neither do justify or retain the same ministry, worship, liturgy, Officers, Ordinances, Government, Parishes, Synagogs', that they use etc., as the Donatists did. Neither do we hold such errors concerning the Magistrates or ministry etc., as the Donatists did, as is here more particularly showed in a peculiar treatise, whither I refer. Only here observing, how the malicious man still (by the just judgement of God) falleth into the same pit, which he digged for the innocent.  
For whilst he would accuse us to derogate from the Prince's authority, in not allowing her to make laws for the Church: And greatly to blemish her ●ame & diminish her love amongst her subjects, whilst we deny these Parishes to be true established Churches of Christ: He himself layeth upon her all these popish trumperies, idolatrous relics, antichristian enormities & abuses of their church; and distaineth her name and honour therewith (for the reformation whereof, this hypocrite sometimes stood a zealous suitor to the Parliament:) Yea, he now maketh his Prince an opposite adversary unto Christ, one that will not be admonished, or be obedient to God's word. If these abuses he then complained of were just or tolerable, how could he sue to have them abolished; and that by a positive law? If they be contrary to the word of God, how then can he now obey them, or blame us for refusing to obey them? The Lord deliver our Sovereign Quern from such Sycophants, such impostors as these false prophets are, that are faithful neither to God nor her, but most dangerously seduce & highly abuse her gracious disposition, which hath ever been inclinable to any truth of God that hath been sincerely showed unto her. It is no shame, neither any new thing, but a most high honour and praise for godly Princes to redress things that are amiss, when they are showed by God's word: Neither it is any injury to the Prince, when the faithful witness against and refreigne any thing that is contrary to God's word: Or dishonour to the Prince to amend the same, how long soever the abuse hath continued as this Accuser and Flatterer suggesteth. The rest of whose criminations & accusations against us, our endeavours and proceedings, I defer to answer until we come to the Articles. Yet now, that the groundwork and true causes of all his bitter invectives and grievous charges against us may appear to all men; we have here set down in print the original and whole former passage betwixt us and him concerning these points in controversy: That the Reader may the better discern and judge of these our present writings: And also see what cause there was given him thus to accuse, reproach, and blaspheme us as heretics, schismatics, disobedient and injurious to Princes, Anabap●ists, Donatists, Brownists, with infinite vile and reproachful obiectives, wherewith his treasury is stored. If in those writings appear no such matter, them we protest, that (to our knowledge) we never gave him cause thus to accuse and blaspheme us, he being a man altogether unknown by person unto us, and never so much as seen, spoken unto, or meddled with by us the writers of these things, otherwise, then by those writings here ensuing; whereunto also we were provoked by himself, who would needs take upon him this quarrel. Which how christianly and soberly he hath handled and performed, let him of his own mouth be judged, even by every sentence of his Books, which are referced with most grievous and inaudible railings; not so much as speaking of us in any place thereof without some hard, cruel, and despiteful words and bitter revilings and cursings. All which in our innocency, as the sparrow and swallow by flying, we shall escape: And having thereby discovered his spirit, easily pass over without regarding or answering the same: Turning also from his person as much as may be, as from a most unreasonable and unhonest man, with whom we would be loath to have further to do: Fixing our eyes wholly upon the matter set before us: endeavouring to make proof and evident demonstration of these charges, for which we forsake their assemblies, and have all this time suffered under their tyrannous hands: As also, to clear our profession and proceedings herein of such calumniations and reproaches, as this our malignant adversary defameth them with. And this in all brevity, truth, and good conscience, as so variable and infinite a matter will permit. Wherein if in any point we deal obscurely & insufficiently (for as the man is such is his strength) we desire that the truth may not suffer prejudice thereby: But that the learned and wise Reader will rather confirm & repair our weak or lose reasons: yea, by our insufficiency be provoked even in zeal & love of the truth to handle it more exactly: Wherein we shall gladly give place, and much rejoice. But if in any thing we be found to departed from the truth, we desire to be lovingly reduced, yet condingly reproved and censured, vowing (through God's grace) never to resist any truth that shall at any time be showed us, neither to resfuse to be reform. The less faltes, as the errors in the writing or print, we shall desire the Reader charitably to construe & correct. And if there be found or rather abound any imperfect or redundant sentences, let those be imputed chief to the want of better skill in the writers, and partly to their decayed memories, to the inconveniency of the place, the continual toss & turmoils, searches & rifle, and no peace or means given us either to write, or reuise that we had written. To conclude, we beseach and admonish the Reader, not to be withdrawn from the truth by any fore-conceived opinion either of our tenuity of gifts and base estate, or of the excellency and multitude of our adversaries, for that were dangerous to themselves: But rather diligently to ponder their own ways & the issues thereof, and where they find themselves to err, speedily to return to the truth without cunctation or excuse; that so they may find peace and assurance to their own souls. Which grace we even wish to our greatest enemies, and shall not cease to pray, that God may thus bless our endeavours.   

A BRIEF SUM OF the causes of our separation, and of our purposes in practice, withstood by G. G. defended by H. B. as followeth.  
WE seek above all things the peace and protection of the most high, and the kingdom of CHRIST JESUS our Lord. 2 WE seek and fully purpose to worship God aright, according as he hath commanded in his most holy word. 3 WE seek the fellowship of his faithful & obedient servants, and together with them to enter Covenant with the Lord, and by the direction of his holy Spirit, to proceed to a godly, free, and right choice of Ministers and other Officers by him ordained to the service of his Church. 4 WE seek to establish and obey the ordinances & laws of our Saviour Christ left by his last will & Testament to the governing & guiding of his Church, without altering, changing, innovating, wresting, or leaving out any of them that the Lord shall give us sight of. 5 WE purpose (by the assistance of the holy Ghost) in this faith & order to lead our lives, and for this faith & order to leave our lives, if such be the good will of our heavenly Father, to whom be honour & glory Amen.  
6 AND now that our forsaking & utter abandoning of these disordered assemblies as they generally stand in England, may not seem strange nor offensive to any man that will judge or be judged by the word of God, we allege & affirm them heinously guilty in these 4 principal Transgressions.  

1 THEY worship the true God after a false manner, their worship being made of the invention of man, even of that man of sin, erroneous & imposed upon them.  
2 FOR that the profane ungodly multitudes, without exception any one person, are with them received into, and retained in the bosom of the Church.  
3 FOR that they have a false & Antichristian ministery imposed upon them, retained with them, and maintained by them.  
4 FOR that these Churches are ruled by, and remain in subjection unto an Antichristian and ungodly government, clean contrary to the institution of our Saviour CHRIST.   
When these things stand thus, let him that readeth consider.  
THE first Article is that which all Christians do seek in dead; 
G. G. to the fi●st Article.  but the kingdom of CHRIST, or the kingdom of God (as CHRIST saith) is within men: It consisteth in righteousness & peace & joy in the holy Ghost. For the preservation of this, CHRIST hath ordained a Church government. They sin against God which do not covet, and according to their calling labour to have so great a help. But to transport the name of Christ's kingdom which is spiritual, which is in the heart, unto this which is but a part, and as though the kingdom of God could not be in any unless they have this (so they do not wilfully despise it) I say is false, and the contrary to be proved by the Scriptures.  
OUR Article being by you confessed to be the bounden duty of all true Christians, 
●. B. his reply.  we see not with what equity you can in this manner cavil at our words, or with what conscience you can misconstrue and constrain them as you do; seeking thereby to retract by sleight, what you cannot gainsay in truth. And taking occasion to contend about words: Namely [the kingdom of CHRIST] You make it only inward, and use CHRIST as one of the Physicians planitarie signs, assigning to him in hipoctisie your heart & soul to rule, whilst in the mean time you yield your bodies and whole assemblies to the obedience and rule of Antichrist; making no conscience to obey his laws openly, and to transgress Christ's; thinking belike Christ's kingdom so inward and spiritual, as that he requireth no bodily or outward obedience; or, because it consisteth of righteousness, and peace, and joy of the holy Ghost, 
〈…〉  that there may be peace without righteousness, or joy without peace, 
They have no 〈◊〉 to excuse themselves, but to accuse the estate, which 〈…〉 they obey 〈…〉. A kingdom no● 〈◊〉 against 〈…〉.  or inward righteousness where is such outward disobedience and wilful transgression. But all this is covered and cured at once [if so be you covet & labour in your calling to have CHRIST'S outward government, etc.] To discuss here how far every Christians duty & calling extendeth herein, were to dismiss all your answers at once, and to pluck away the mantle of shame wherewith you cover your nakedness, your negligence, and all your abominations. In this place therefore we will only ask you these 2 questions. First; whither any which have their calling of Antichrist, or be his marked Ministers, or waged servants, can truly and uprightly covet & labour for the sincere government of CHRIST, which is his whip wherewith he ●kourgeth out all thieves, intruders and idle-bellies out of his house. The next question is: Wither to remain wittingly and servilely in the bondage and yoke of Antichrist 29 years, be to seek & labour for the government of Christ faithfully in your callings, or to uphold and undershore the kingdom of Antichrist rather?  
But to transport the name of Christ's kingdom which is chief spiritual and in the heart, unto that which is but a part etc.  
How diversly the kingdom of God is read in the Scriptures, we will not contend with you (although it were not hard to show either your ignorance or forgetfulness herein) Only this we say; our words can carry no such construction, much less such an erroneous opinion, as you (abounding in your own sense) have not only collect, but confuted. In the first our words being, That we seek the kingdom of Christ jesus our Lord, cannot be thus restrained to Christ's outward orders and government in his Church; especially, if you had pondered that which followed, where in the ● Article (after your division) we have expressed this point in particular. Neither (if we should admit you y● interpretation) could you collect from thence [that the kingdom of God could not be in any, unless they have this] But as we usually read in the old and new Testament Christ's kingdom to be taken for his true visible Church here in earth; so we acknowledge his universal Church & kingdom to extend to all such as by a true faith apprehend & confess Christ, howsoever they be scattered, or wheresoever dispersed upon the face of the earth: Yet both with this interim, without true faith & obedience can be no true Church, no true Christian.  
THE 2 Article ought all men that will please God to approve. 
G. G. to the 2 Article.   
THIS Article you say [aught all that will please God to approve] How then seek you to please God, 
H. B. his reply.  which continue in Idolatry & are a Minister thereof, which prophecy in Baal & plead for Baal? Or how approve you it, when you condemn us of schism and heresy because we forsake your false & antichristian worship, and seek to worship Christ according to his word?  
THE 3 Article if it be taken in this sense, 
G. G. to the 3 Article.  that ye dare set up a society separated from all others within this land which make public profession; then I see not, when you have gone by yourselves & set up your Officers, how you will clear yourselves from Donatisme. If theirs were a damnable fact which God did accurse, then take heed to yours; for if it can be showed that their heresies are not holden, I will change my mind.  
THE words of our Article being [That we seek the fellowship and communion of Christ's faithful & obedient servants] clear us of all schism & heresy: 
H. B. his reply,  So that if you would convince us of these crimes, it had been expedient you had first proved your assemblies, as they generally stand, by the evidence of God's word, to be true churches of Christ, rightly entered & keeping covenant with the Lord, continuing in the order and obedience of his word etc., and that we preposterously have departed from you, and uncharitably have forsaken your fellowship. But as soon as you shall show us such a church among you, by the grace of God we will show you how free we are of schism: As likewise, when you shall lay open our errors unto us, how far we will be from heresy. In the mean time we will not cease to pray unto God for you, that he will not lay these sins unto your charge, which in your ignorant zeal you commit, but in mercy show you the fearful estate you stand in, and give you an heart unfeignedly to repent, & speedily to turn unto him.  
THE 4 Article ought all men to practise so far forth as the limits of their calling do extend. 
G. G. to the 4. Art.  But let it be showed that ever private men did take upon them to reform when things were amiss in the Church; or that any of the prophets did will them to take the matter in hand; or show your warrant that you be not private men.  
THIS Article you first allow, 
H. B. his reply.  and after restrain to we wots not what limits of calling: But if you grant it the duty of every true Christian to seek to establish & obey the ordinances & laws of Christ, left in his Testament to the governing of his Church, without altering etc.: it is as much as we endeavour: or purpose. Otherwise we allow not that, which the law of God condemneth, either intrusion without lawful calling, either transgression in calling, or presumption above calling. Our purpose is not to meddle with the reformation of the state, otherwise then by our prayers unto God, and refreining from all things that are contrary to God's law. 
Sodom & Babylon 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉.  Neither endeavour we to reform your Babylonish deformities, or to repair the ruins of Hierico, or daub the wall of A●tichrist with you. This trash we know to be devote to execration by the Lords own irrevocable sentence; and therefore we leave the reformation of them to the Lords visitation in judgement: 
The best way to 〈◊〉 others is 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 ourselves.  holding it our duty without all delay to obey the voice of God which calleth us out of all places where he is not truly worshipped according to his word, where his laws are wilfully broken & Antichrists laws obeyed: And this to be the commandment of God in the law by his Prophets, Christ himself and his Apostles, is every where in the scripture manifest (without exception of person or restraint of calling) even unto every one that willbe saved. In the rest (whatsoever you surmise of us) we arrogat no swelling titles, we are as we profess to be, simple hearted Christians, which seek to worship and obey Christ as our only King, Priest, and Prophet: And to our Prince we are humble & obedient subjects in all things which are not repugnant to God's laws.  
IF a man hath the truth, 
G. G. to the 5 Article.  it is good to stand unto it to the death rather than deny it; as our Church in the same estate it is in now, yielded many blessed constant Martyrs. But if a man hath not the truth, it is a great obstinacy to die for it; as sundry Anabaptists and other heretics have showed. Every true Christian will rather die then deny the discipline which Christ hath left: But you must show that God commandeth private men to set it up.  
THE word of God & your own mouth having approved our desires in these Articles, 
H. B. his reply.  we cannot be moved with Satan's old tentation, to doubt of the Lords undoubted truth, or call his commandments into question, with [if it be true etc.] Neither can we be removed by that old popish reason which you bring, of certain blessed Martyrs that died in this estate your Church is now in. This is not to approve the estate of your Church by Christ's Testament: Which until you do, though all the men in the world should die both in it & for it, yet could they not justify that God condemneth. But in deed the holy Martyrs you speak of, neither died in it, nor for it. Not in it, being by God's great mercy deprived and discharged by their enemies: Not for it, but for the truth of CHRIST they most constantly gave their lives. Neither can it be showed where ever they resisted the truth, being showed them; or denied to hear it at the most simple man's mouth; or ever yielded to any corruption or yoke that God gave them sight of, contrary to their own consciences, as you do in these days. Therefore so far are they from justifying you in this your general apostasy, as that they being found faithful in that little in the twilight, shall rise in judgement with this generation in this great light with all the gifts they boast of.  
Every true Christian (you say) will die rather than deny the discipline that Christ hath left. With what conscience then can you esteem among the wicked Anabaptists and condemned & dampened heretics that suffer in their obstinacy, us, that cast off the yoke of Antichrist, & seek & suffer for the true worship & holy government of Christ? Or how can you flatter yourselves in the fearful estate you stand in, drawing so even by long custom in antichrist's yoke, not only in deed and practice denijng the government of CHRIST, but (to your utmost endeavour) by contumelious reproaches, unjust slanders, and open persecution, seek to resist and suppress it. But we must show [that God commandeth private men to set it up]. First God commandeth in his law every one to seek the place where he putteth his name: CHRIST in the Gospel, to seek the kingdom of God, to take his yoke upon them, etc. Again, CHRIST hath left but one form of government in his last Will and Testament unto his Church, which he hath sealed with his blood; and therefore not left it arbitrable at the pleasures of Princes, or policies of times to be done or undone, but made it by a double right inviolable, 
〈…〉.  both by his word and his Testament; so that the Church of God can neither be governed by any other laws or government, neither ought it to be without this; for God holdeth them all in the estate of enemies, which have not his Son to reign over them. Now than the faithful are commanded to gather together in CHRIST his name, with promise of direction & protection, and with authority not only to establish his laws & ordinances amongst them, but faithfully to govern his Church thereby. For the kingdom of God consisteth not in word but in power. Now this assembly of the faithful before they be planted & established in this order, consisteth hitherto but of particular private persons, none as yet being called to office or function. Therefore we may well conclude, that God commandeth his faithful servants, being as yet private men, together to build his church, according to the true pattern of Christ's Testament (without altering, changing, innovating etc.) And for this we have the example of the primitive Churches for our patterns and warrant, which sued not to Courts & Parliaments, nor waited upon Prince's pleasures, when the stones were in a readiness, but presently having received the faith of Christ, received likewise the ordinances of Christ, and continued in the same. Again, if they should tarry Princes leisuers, where were the persecution you speak of? Prince's never punish them that obey their hests. And thus because you cannot endure the fiery trial of persecution, you utterly (by your perfidous toleration) abrogate at once the cross of Christ. And (that you might enjoy this worldly peace & fleshly pleasure for a season) you care not to make Christ attend upon Princes, and to be subject to their laws and government. But (alas) it were fit with a loud voice to call you out of Babylon, them thus to sing you Hebrew songs in Babylon.  
THIS Article mentioneth 4 principal Transgressions, 
G. G. to the 6 Article.  wherein the assemblies in England are judged and affirmed to be heinously faulty, and wilfully obstinate. Elias did see outward idolatry practised, and did see none that did mislike, and therefore complained of all, it was but an error. But whereas God's word is embraced, and multitudes abhor idolatry, and labour with sorrowful tears to be purged from their sins, it is intolerable pride & presumption of men to set themselves in God's judgement seat, and to condemn all of wilfulness and obstinacy. Let it be showed that any (led by God's Spirit) have dealt in this sort, and especially in charging them whom they condemn most falsely, as shall appear.  
HERE you very vehemently charged us with intolerable pride, 
H. B. his reply.  presumption, intrusion into God's judgement seat, to be void of God's Spirit, to charged and condemn you most falsely, as you say shall appear. How justly you charged us with these crimes, and discharged yourself and these assemblies of these present transgressions, upon the scan of your answer shall appear. In the mean time the holy Ghost showeth us what spirit you are led by at the writing thereof; and hath foretold how well you shall endure and reform at the manifestation of your sins, and at the pouring out of the cup of the Lords indignation, where he saith: They shall drink, and be moved, and be mad, because of the sword that sha●l come upon them. And in another place: And the fift Angel powered forth his vial upon the Throne of the Beast, and his kingdom waxed dark, and they gnawed their tongues for sorrow and blasphemed the God of heaven for their pains and their sores, but repent them not of their works. It sufficed you not to cavil and spurn against the manifest truth of our former Articles; but you must in this not only leave out our words at your pleasure, but abuse them that remain after your own lust. Our Article speaketh of the assemblies as they generally stand in England: You retort our words to Gods secret election, which we acknowledge and daily see, and praise God's name for it: Yet no multitudes, but a little poor remnant, as the berries of a beaten Olive tree, the grapes after the grape-gathering, one of a City, two of a Tribe in respect. And it is to be doubted, those multitudes you speak of will shrink when they come to his assay whose furnace is in Zion, and fire in Jerusalem. But if it should be so as you say, the heavy wrath of God hangeth over your heads, that have a people so ready and fit for the kingdom of CHRIST, and suffer them to continue in this confusion, false worship, antichristian bondage, even the snare of the Devil; and not only not lead them out of it, but not suffer them that would to departed, and thus slay them that should not die. Yea you smite the Physician that seeketh to heal you, and are enemies to them that show you your transgressions, judging them void of the spirit of God. But if you had but considered that Prophet's zeal, as you remembered his error, you should have found him zealous & withdraw against Baalls Priests in God's quarrel. It were long to recite the number of God's faithful servants which are every where commended in the scriptures for their zeal & diligence herein: Or again the Lords judgements not only upon particular men, but whole countries & nations for the contempt & neglect thereof. So then, if it fall out that the law and word of God condemn you of these transgressions, what are we that we should justify you in your iniquities; nay rather proud, haughty, and scornful is his name that worketh in his arrogancy wrath etc.  
To blazon your transgressions as they deserve, requireth rather a choir then a shed of paper: And (to say the truth) it is an yrksomnes unto any godly conscience, either to hear or recite them. Yet because there is no cause so bad which shall not find as bad a patron, we will only examine your answers, and briefly show their insufficiency.  
THE first fault is; 
G. give. his answer to the first principal Transgression.  That we worship the Lord after a false manner, because our worship is said to be made of the invention of man, yea of the man of sin, erroneous & imposed upon us. I answer, that our worship is the embracing of the holy Bible; by the doctrine thereof we seek to believe in God, to call upon him, and to do all good works. Many Ministers there be in England which have not approved the book of common prayer further, than they are persuaded it is consonant to God's word, hor used any thing therein which they judge corrupt. But you say all read prayer is idolatry: But you must bring better stuff to prove it then your spiritual fantasies so directly overthrown by the holy scriptures, howsoever they may be cavilled against with fond distinctions, as the heretics have done in other matters.  
THE first Transgression we charged your assemblies with, 
H. BAR, his reply.  is: That you worship God after a false manner, your worship being made of the invention of man, even of the man of sin, erroneous, and imposed upon you. You answer, your worship is the embracing the holy Bible: Thus begging the question, you neither prove your worship by the Bible, nor answer one of these 4 apparent reasons which we bring in our Articles, why it is false & contrary to the Bible. For the further manifestation of your worship in particular, let that great Idol, the book of your common prayer (which is so full of errors, blasphemies, and abominations) be examined by the word of God. See if you can find in the new Testament your Romish Fasts, your Ember days, Saints Eaves, Lent, or your Idol Feasts, your All-hallows, Candlemas, your several Lady days, Saint's days, the dedicating of your Churches to Saints, your Comminations, Rogations, Purifications, Tithe●, Offerings, Mortuaries, your manner of visiting the sick & housling them with the Sacrament, your Absolution, your blasphemous Diriges and funeral sermons over and for the dead, your corrupt manner of administering the Sacraments, your Font, crossing in baptism, your baptizing by women, Gossip, the blasphemous Collects you use in this Sacrament, your Bishoppings, with all your heretical Collects in that Book, which is a weariness to us to repeat, though not in you to use, 
The Churchwardens sw●●ue to see the book used.  tolerate, and defend. But all this gear must be swallowed up: This candle may not be lighted, lest the people look into the abominable ingredients which you their antichristian Ministers give them, or rather sell them in the whore of Babylon's Cup to the destruction of their souls. But you know some Ministers in the land, which neither use nor approve the Book further, than they are persuaded in conscience it is consonaut to God's word. But you know none that use not the Book: You know never a Minister in this land which either is authorized by the state, or standeth in puplique place, which standeth nor under this Idol, or that hath thrown it out by the power of the word, or withdrawn the people from it with all their preaching these 29 years; but join their Gospel to it, 
The Gospel of Christ cannot be joined to this stuff.  minister to that people that use it, etc. Neither can the cunningest of you make the best part of it other, than a piece of swines flesh, an abomination to the Lord. Nei●her can the persuasion of your conscience either justify your worship, clear you, or satisfy others; especially when we see your confciences to tollerat and submit unto the whole; to use part in respect of your homage, and to refuse part for shame of the world. Hitherto appeareth no slander in our Article, your worship being altogether as ill, and worse than we speak of; and such indeed as you neither can nor dare abide by: And therefore to get rid of this Article which presseth you so ●ore, you charged us with matter which you find not in our Article: That we say all read prayer is idolatry, terming it our stuff, spiritual fantasies directly overthrown by the holy scriptures, howsoever we may cavil with fond distinctions, as the heretics have done in other matters. From what spirit proceedeth all this? found you this in our Article? If not, all these blasphemous reproaches must return to you again with shame: You want a covert when you fly into this bush to hide you. When you shall be better instructed of the holy Ghost, and have learned what prayer is, you will not call spiritual prayers spiritual fantasies, neither thrust your Apochriphas prayers to be read in the church of God, where only God's word ought to be read. But this being beside our Article, in nothing disproving it, not justifying your idolatrous worship used in your assemblies, we leave the further clearing of this to him, to whom it more particularly (belongeth. And we, for every thing you have as yet brought) must remain cleared of all the slanders and reproaches you have cast out against us; your assemblies still charged and obstinately guilty of a popish, erroneous, and idolatrous worship thrust upon them according to our Article; and you not a Minister, but a defender of this trumpery, resisting the truth, and blaspheming us for defending the truth.  
THE 2 fault is: 
G. G. his answer to the 2 principal Transgression.  That all the profane multitude (without exception of any person) are admitted & retained into the bosom of the Church. The most Churches in England want godly Pasoors, and there all are admitted, it may be he that admitteth is the worst in the company. But there be many greater & smalller Congregations where the Pastor doth keep back some for ignorance, and some for spotted life, until they amend; as I my ●elf have known 〈…〉 repelled from the Sacrament in one stock, and not admitted at all. But you will say; by what right doth the 〈◊〉 this? I say, that the Book of common prayer doth expressly command, that all such as live ungodly shall not be admitted. But than you will say, they be admitted to come unto prayers with the rest. Not, if they be excommunicated justly, as sundry are. Again, this will hardly be retained of all that know the truth, that the prayer or worship of the faithful is polluted if there be profane men in company, especially we that cannot remedy the matter. There were but a few true worshippers frequented the Temple among multitudes of profane & ungodly men. But what can you allege more th' the Anabaptists did at the first, why they separated themselves? would you have private men reform the Temple, or not come there?  
HERE you confess that the most Churches in England want godly Pastors; 
H. B. his reply.  and that there all are admitted; and that he that admitteth them is the worst of the company. 
〈…〉.  Thus you make the most Churches in England in a very bad estate, and so far forth you affirm our Article. But yet you know some Churches, where the Pastor hath repelled for ignorance & spotted life to the number of 20. or 30. from the Sacrament etc. This very rare thing being granted you, what ensueth thereof? Doth this disprove, that even there, and in the best of your Churches, the profane multitudes are not received into & retained in the bosom & body of your Churches? Were there no more profane ●ow ye but these 20. or 30. you speak of in Ye Parish? or were not they elsewhere received to the Sacrament? But to take a more direct course with you, and to prove our Article at once. Know you any in those Parishes you speak of, or in the Realm of England unbaptised? And is not Baptism a Sacrament belonging to the church, whereby all the faithful & their ●eede enter into it? Then all being baptized, it followeth, that all are received into the body of your Church. Now being once received in, they can no way be cast out, but by excommunication. And it is manifest that the Parson with all his Parish have not the power which Christ hath left unto his Church to excommunicate any offendor, be he never so obstinate or notorious; no nor to redress any enormity that is laid upon them by the times. And thus the other part of our Article is confirmed; That all are retained in the bosom of your Church. And now to your suspension or prohibition from the Sacrament: You will have us ask you by what right the Minister doth this. In deed this would be known; for if it be in the nature of excommunication, it were no small presumption in the Minister to arrogate such absolute authority to himself. But all this your answer cleareth. The Book of common prayer (you say) doth command etc. Here may not be let pass that even your own mouth confesseth; that even the best of your Churches & Ministers stand under, observe & uphold this Idol. Why, is the Book● of common prayer Christ's new Testament, that you must fetch your war●ant & direction from that Idol? In deed it is a fit Portesse for such a Priest; and the suspension you vaunt of, a fit tool for such workmen, even the instrument of that foolish Shepherd. If the judgement of God were not upon your right eye & your right arm, you might see how your Lords the bishops dress you; and perceive how this weapon they allow you, wanteth both edge & point; it is so rebuted by them, that never a one in the Parish setteth a fly by it. Again, one word of M. Commissaries mouth can heal the greatest wound you can make with it. The next thing that you will have us to say, is [That they be admitted to come to prayer with the rest]. For this you have a cunning solution ready: Not (you say) if they be justly excommunicate▪ as sundry are. See how God ensnareth you in your own words, and how hard a bad cause is to defend, though you make both our Questions & your own Answers as it pleaseth you.  
First here is to be observed, That you subscribe not in secret, but openly justify the commissaries excommunication, for other means have your Sinagogs' none, the Parson, Churchwardens, Sidemen, questmen being sworn servants, and the whole Parish standing in subjection to his Antichristian Court.  
The is to be observed, what good Shepherds you be, that yield your sheep to this ravening wolf to make havoc of them, and excommunicate at his pleasure. But all these transgressions and enormities whatsoever, you think to heal, or hide (at the least) with these 2 dry withered fig-leaves: The one; That you cannot remedy the matter: Tother; Private men may not reform. In the first you confess yourselves deprived of that power which Christ unto the world's end hath left unto his Church to reform & redress things amiss. In th'other, deprived of all christia liberty & will, so much as to save your own soul, and to come forth of this Babylonish bondage you stand in, 
Private men may refrain idolatry though they cannot reforms  still dreaming of the reformation of your idolatrous Sinagogs', and seeking to heal the wound of the Beast, comparing them to the Temple of God, and still begging the question, frame your Arguments as though your people were faithful, and your prayer holy. Alas, it were better you took example by the fearful judgements of God upon the Temples, and learned of the faithful servants of God which in the idolatrous days of Achas, 〈…〉 etc.▪ ref●eined from that they could not amend; rather then in this frantic manner to blaspheme the name of Christ whereupon we are called, by comparing us to Anabaptists & Heretics for obeying the voice of God that calleth us from among you, and for telling you the truth.  
THE 3 fault is; 
G. G. his answer to the 3 principal Transgression  A false & Antichristian ministry imposed & maintained. Here is no reason rendered why it is a false & Antichristian ministery which is imposed. If ye be prophets raised up of God we must believe that which you say; but they did not lie in any matter: but every man may see, that you have in the former Article lied. We may not therefore give credit to your imaginations. We have more to prove that there be many faithful Ministers of Christ in the land, then that any shallbe able to overthrow. This I would wi●h, that simple men would have thus much wisdom, as to suspend their judgement if they be in doubt, and so inquire if there be any churches of Christ under heaven, what they do judge of the Ministry & churches of England. For if there be no Church of Christ nor ministery, and all the famous men in all the Churches say we be (knowing our estate as they do right well) then be they all guilty, then where shall we find the Church? Shall we seek it amongst a few uncharitable men, which cannot show any Church which agreeth with them so nearly as the Anabaptists & Donatists? Let it be set down what maketh a true Minister of Christ, and then if that be not found in many Ministers in England, let them be condemned Antichristian. It is the part of every godly & christian man to have the matter thoroughly tried, before he pronounce sentence; if it were but against one man, he should sin grievously to do otherwise, much more when the sentence is against the whole Church.  
HERE you say is no reason rendered by us why it is a false and Antichristian Ministry which is imposed. 
H. B his reply.  But if you had better weighed these two former Transgressions wherewith we charge you; or duly considered of your own answer before you had put pen to paper, you might have gained this labour you have taken, & the shame you are like to suffer by these your frivolous & indirect answers. Or if you had consulted with your learned brethren upon the matter (to whom this promise which you have intercepted, 
They promise● us before the 〈◊〉 of the e Articles to ans●●ere or 〈◊〉.  more nearly by many rights appertained) they would have counseled you to have used your discretion rather in the pulpit as they do, where you may say what you list without controlment, them thus bewray your folly in writing, which lieth subject to the censure of all men in all ages. They consider that an evil and corrupt matter ought rather to be covered then raked in, lest it become more odious.  
Now we were persuaded by the word of God that the true Minister of Christ could not be a Minister of idolatrous & false worship. Such in our first cause of our coming out from among you, we proved the worship in your assemblies to be. Then we were persuaded by the word of God, that a true Pastor could not stand a heard to the Lords goats, and swine, blessing them with the blessing of the faithful, and delivering them the holy things of God, as the Sacraments etc. Such in our second cause we proved both you and your people, as they generally stand in your Parishes, to be. And now in this third cause yourself, by but repeating part of our words, do give a strong & sufficient reason. Namely; that your Ministry is thrust & imposed upon your Churches, & not freely chosen by the Lords faithful people according to Christ his ordinance in his Testament. You know our Saviour Christ his judgement of such as come into the sheepfold by intrusion, or ascend up any other way. So then we seek not that you should credit us, or hold us for prophets: But if this we speak be that which God by them hath uttered, than you deride not us so much as them, nor them so much as the Spirit of God that spoke in them. [But the prophets of God lied not in any thing; but every man may see that we have in the former Article lied.] The Devil is the author of lies, slanders, false accusations against the Saints etc., and thereof hath his name: All that make or love lies are his children, and shallbe shut off the City of God. This charged we have repelled in the 2. Transgression; where we proved all received into your Church by Baptism, and are retained in your Churches, because you have not the power of Christ to excommunicate any. Thus still you fall into the pit you make for us, by God's just judgements, and shall by the same receive the reward of a liar, a false witness, a false Prophet, if God give you not grace to repent, which we shall more joy in then in your confusion.  
Of the great store of reasons you have to prove your Ministry to be of Christ, & yourselves faithful, you might have bestowed one of your store, either for pity or for love upon us, who you see are fully persuaded, that there is not one such Minister among you all; at least for saving yourself from the blame you laid upon us, one reason would have done well: But chief for confirming your ministery to be of Christ, one (at the least) had been more than necessary: For otherwise we may not believe your bare affirmation before Christ's negative: In whose Testament we find neither the names you carry, the Offices you bear, the manner of your entrance, of your administration, neither of your support & maintenance. 
The same ●easons that o●erthrov● the Pope overthrow their 〈◊〉.  Your descent and pedigree is within few degrees derived from the Pope, you being the children of your Antichristian Bishops which are the creatures of the Pope, who is the eldest son of Satan, and his Vicar gennerall in earth, whose image, mark, power and life you ●eare, and together with him grow, live, reign, stand and fall, as the branches with the tree. Now we knowing the plant cannot easily be deceived in the grafts, especially knowing them from their cradles, nourished with the milk of superstition, instructed in the school of heathen vanity, brought up in the Colleges of more than monkish idleness and disorder, exercised in vain and curious arts, whose divinity is by tradition, and according to their progress & degrees therein commended to the Ordinary, who making probation of them accordingly, doth either initiate or train them in this idolatrons' office, or else give them their full orders, with his paper licence & popish seal thereat. Thus are they either presented to a Benefice, instituted, inducted, where they ring their bells, pay the first fruits, taxes, proxes, and are sworn to their canonical obedience, to his Scenes, Courts, Synods etc.: Or else (as they term them) they are become Preachers, 
〈…〉.  either waged Chaplains, mercenary Curates, or hireling teachers, gaping for promotion: Which being obtained, they change, remove, interchange, according to their best advantage. In this manner being entered by intrusion, they cannot but live by theft, spoil and rapine, as their popish tithes, the goods of the poor, and offerings of the profane indifferently; and govern by tyranny and perfidy: Tyranny, in executing the popish Injunctions, even the statutes of Omry: Perfidy, in betraijng all into the hands of their Lords the Bishops. Thus fulfil they scriptures, by which who so examineth their infinite transgressions in particular, can want no store of Arguments against this Ministry; our purpose being here rather to show some, than to set down all, or to confute any of their odious enormities: Which are so gross, that as soon as they are but manifested by the light, they are reproved. And it could not be (if the Lord had not laid a vail over their hearts) that where the scriptures are read, these deformities could be hid, tolerated, or defended.  
But in stead of an Argument to us, you turn your speech to the simple people, and give them counsel if they doubt of your ministery [to supend their judgements, and to inquire if there be any Churches of God under heaven, and what they do judge of the ministery, and Church of England] etc. Is this the best counsel you can give them? use you thus to appease unquiet consciences, and to resolve their doubts? With what conscience can they which remain doubtful of the truth, and lawfulness of your ministery, frequent your prayers and preaching in the mean time until they may send over sea and be resolved from thence; You know that what is not of faith, is sin. But with what conscience can you use poor souls thus that inquire the truth at your mouth, to send them over sea you wots not whether to be resolved of your ministery & Churches? Is your Church built upon the words of men, or upon the word of God? Is this to prove your Church & ministery by the word of God? Or to use the old worn Arguments of your mother Church of Rome, who was wont to defend herself by universality & consent? What if all the Churches & learned men in the world should say you are a Church (which we must tell you by the way they all never did, neither caanie which knoweth the word of God and your estate aright) but if they should, could they, or all the world justify, that God condemneth? Should not a people inquire at their God from the living to the dead? Remember ye not that it is written To the law● & the testimonies if they speak not, it is because there is no light in them. But ye are gone out of the way, ye have caused many to fall by the Law, ye have broken the Covenant of Le●ie saith the Lord of hosts, therefore have I made you also to be despised and vile before all the people, because you kept not my Ways but have been partial in the Law. Yea the judgements of God are already fallen upon you; you all (as he speaketh by his Prophet) being covered with a spirit of slumber, 
If the light 〈◊〉 is in you be darkne●, o how great is that darkness.  even strike with the blindness of Elimas, groping the way in the noon light, because you have perverted the strait ways of the Lord; and being thus miserable and blind out of the way, not only perceive it not, but love darkness more than light, refusing the light when it is brought you, yea despising it, because of the fewenes and baseness of them that bring it you. And in this pharisaical pride proceed, after your accustomed manner of blaspheming, terming us few, uncharitable, Anabaptists, Donatists etc. Thus fulfil you the measure of your forefathers; thus dealt they with all Gods faithful servants that were sent unto them, yea even with CHRIST himself, refusing him for his simplicity, reputing him among thieves, deceivers, etc.: We look for no better usage at your hands; the servant is neither greater nor better than his Master; if they have done thus to the green tree, what shall not you do to the dry? Yet so far are we from all danger or harm by these curses, 
God 〈◊〉 your blessings: therefore he blesseth your cursing.  that God turneth them forthwith unto us as a blessing, and to a comfortable assurance both of the fellowship of the faith, and of the sufferings of CHRIST: Blessed are you when men revile you, and say all manner of evil against you for my name's sake etc. Again, through the mercies of our God, all the ini●ries you can offer unto us cannot overcome our charity, or break our patience. In the one we possess our souls; in the other we will not cease to pray for you, even as for ourselves, and be ready to do you any good we can. Now to those poor souls whom you like miserable physicians thus cure, we give this advise; (yet not we, but the Load) That they beware of Wolves in sheeps clothing: That they ●ollow not blind guides too far: That they mark diligently and avoid such as transgress and abide not in the doctrine of CHRIST, not walk after the rule of the Gospel: That they turn away from such as make a show of godliness, but deny the power and practise thereof, deceiving with fair words the hearts of the simple, talking of CHRIST but denijng him in deeds. Further we send them not to man's word, nor over sea, but to God's word, which is near them, even in their mouths and in their hearts: Let them thereby try the spirits before they believe them: Let them thereby measure their Temple, their Altar and their Worshippers, and especially their own hearts; that they may be wise to that which is good, and simple concerning evil. If the latter part of your answer had been put in the beginning, (to have 〈◊〉 down what maketh a true Minister of Christ) & you approved your Ministry accordingly, we had suffered less injury, and you less blame, Notwithstanding, because it is never to late to repent, if this your offer be according to your heart, we most willingly & gladly accept of it, and will refuse no indifferent & godly conference, which we yet this time expected, and to that end wrote (at certain of your chief Ministers requests) these Articles, which you have taken upon you to answer. In the rest though you have most rashly & most unchariblie reproached & condemned us already, contrary to all truth, order or equity, even for telling you the truth; Yet if hereafter you can beware of rash judgement, we shall rejoice. Likewise, if you can escape God's judgements for these your heinous transgressions; or make any better plea for them then as yet we have heard or can perceive, we shall not be sorry, but much glad, if you would prevent the wrath that hangeth over your heads for them by unfeigned repentance & speedy amendment.  
THE 4 fault is in the subjection to Antichristian government. 
G. G. his answer to the 4 principal Transgression  Let it be admitted that there is some yoke of Antichristian government, under which the poor Church doth groan, (as it is her lot to be oppressed with outward bondage, to be made to keep the vineyard which is not her own, to be beaten of the watchmen, to have her vail taken from her) is she therefore no longer the Spouse of Christ?  
BUT o how far are you from this; which wink with your eyes, 
H. B. his reply.  stop your ears, harden your hearts; which cannot endure so much as to hear of your fearful estate which you see not, no nor suffer your sores which you see, to be touched; but seek rather to cloak & hide them both from God & men; yea to mitigate, tolerate & justify them. Seek you not here to mitigate that heavy apparent Antichristian yoke your Churches stand under, whereof heretofore you have complained in Parliaments? terming it [some yoke], being now peradventure through long custom grown lighter unto you, and more easy than Christ's yoke, at the least, them Christ's Crosse. And yet this [some yoke] is yielded but by way of admission, to be retracted at your pleasure, if either advantage arise to us, or danger grow to you thereby. Further, you have added to this your hypocrisy, Blasphemy; terming the yoke of Antichrist the lot of the Church, which she must bear by the will of God; whereof in due place. Now to show this [some yoke] you speak of according to the indignity thereof in every particular, would make a volume: Yea only to recite the several enormities thereof, would require a discourse; which is neither our purpose at this time, neither have we skill or experience therein. Only this we see and testify, that your churches stand wholly under the yoke of Antichrist, you still retaining his Worship, his Laws, his Ordinances, his Officers, his Courts, even the whole government that the Pope sometime committed to his faithful servants your Bishops, which now have taken his power into their own hands. What a sort of stagelike Antichristian Courts have you? As first, that great Court of your high Commission▪ the Court (ex officio) in every Bishop's house; the Court of Arches; the Court of Delegates; the Court of Faculties: Not to speak of your inferior Courts in the country; as your Commissaries and officials Courts; your Scenes, & such like. What a rabble of Officers & attendants are unto the●e belonging? Advocates, Doctors, Proctors, Registers, Scribes, Pursiuants. Who can number all their Antichristian Cannons, Laws, Rites, Ceremonies, Privileges, Dispensations, Licences of all sorts, Probations, Inhibitions & c? which require but the whole age of a man to read. But now who can recount the particular mischiefs & enormities that ensue & flow from them, even over the whole land? Or who yieldeth not to this Antichristian jurisdiction? Do not you & your whole Parishes, without exception of one, bow down to this Beast, and take the mark of his subjection, or the print of his laws upon you, even in your foreheads & in your hands? What liberty have you to refreine from these abominations, without present persecution? Or what power have you to execute and practise Christ's laws? Call you this but some yoke? 
The true Church never without christia● liberty and christian power. Christ divideth not with A●tichrist.  The holy Ghost hath taught us to call you his servants to whom you obey: So we finding you under the obedience of Antichrist, cannot count you the servants of Christ; unless you can prove that you can serve two contrary Masters faithfully at once. Christ & Antichrist are at perpetual war, there is no communion between them: So that it is impossible that the Church of Christ can carry the yoke of Antichrist, without breach of wedlock, even of the Covenant, as appeareth plentifully in all the Prophets, Christ's love being not bound to her any longer, than she keepeth faith to him. Again, there is continual war between the true Church, and Antichrist; which were at an end, if she should yield unto him, or carry his yoke, as you suppose. But if you had learned to put difference between persecution and bondage, you could not in this matter have run into this blasphemous error, as to say [it is the lot of the Church to be oppressed with outward bondage, and to be made to keep the vineyard which is not her own] Persecution in deed is the lot of the Church here is this world; as he that was borne after the flesh persecuted him that was borne after the Spirit. But bondage is the badge of Antichrist, the mark of the Beast, whereby his soldiers are discerned from the soldiers of Christ; and the children of mount Sina from the children of Jerusalem which is above & free, even the mother of us all, for whom our captain Christ hath purchased a full & a perfect liberty at a dear & precious price; which liberty once lost, there remaineth no more ransoms to make us free. It behoveth therefore all the children of the free woman to stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made them free, and not to be entangled again with the yoke of bondage.  
Neither can these places of the Song (which you have falsified & perverted) any way carry this doctrine you would build upon them, or construction you make. 
Song. 〈◊〉  In the first place though the Church confesseth her own unworthiness & deformity, borne in original sin, which conceived and brought out in her many actual sins, which being kinled in her & against her, often enticed her & provoked her to keep their vines, whereby she neglected to dress and keep her own vine: Yet from hence it followeth not, 
The Church da●ly prayeth 〈◊〉 forgiveness of 〈◊〉.  that because she was sinful & negligent, that therefore she was obstinate & incortigible (the contrary appeareth, in that she thus humbly & modestly confesseth her faults): Or because she kept not her own vine, as she ought to do, that therefore she kept antichrist's vine, which she ought not to do. What a bold falsifijng of this place is this, to all edge, that the Church was made to keep the vineyard which is not her own, in stead of this, that she kept not her own vine? If you had looked upon the two next verses following, you could never thus grossly have mistaken the matter. In the 6 ●erse the Church prayeth unto Christ that he would show her where he feedeth, and where he lieth at noon; For (saith she) why should I be as she that turneth aside to the flocks of thy companions. This is not to groan under antichrist's yoke, nor to remain with the flocks of these presumptuous Shepherds which willbe Christ's companions, which set their own laws over the Church, reign in men's consciences, imposing their heaps of burdenous traditions etc. But here all the faithful are taught to fly unto Christ by fervent and faithful prayer, and not to cease until he show them the place where he feedeth his flock, and where he resteth at noon: There shall they find a comfortable shadow in the greatest heat of persecution, and a safe refuge in the greatest storm & tempest that Satan can raise. Again, If you had considered Christ's answer in the 7 verse, where he instructeth her, yea & commandeth her and all his faithful servants with her to come forth, not to stay in the steps of that flock, but to feed her kids above the tents of other shepherds; you would never have used this place to prove that it is the lot of the Church to be oppressed with outward bondage, and to be made to keep the vineyard which is not her own, Christ here as you see commanding the express contrary. Neither have you applied that other place of the 5 of the So●ge with better success: For if it be duly weighed & truly applied, it will to the life show forth what Church you are, and your behaviours & dealings with the Church of God.  
First therefore among diverse & sundry notes set down here by the holy Ghost whereby to discern the true Church from the false, we observe especially these. 
Notes of the true Church.  The true Church though she daily fall into sundry sins, yet lieth not she still in them, nor despiseth the voice & calling of Christ: But (as you see here) awaketh, repenteth & ariseth, openeth, sorroweth, seeketh, giveth not over for grivous wounds, persecutions and blasphemies, neither by them is turned back to the easy bed of wordly peace and fleshly quiet from whence she arose etc., but continueth sorrowing & seeking until she have found the daughters of Jerusalem, the children of the free woman, to whom she communicateth her sorrows & her desires; to them she preacheth & praiseth Christ; to them she recommendeth her estate, charging them to show it her beloved by prayers etc. 
The false Ch●rc●.  On the contrary, we find here the malignant Church fast asleep in worldly peace and fleshly ease, frozen in the dregs of their sins; such as will not be wakened, 
One bed cannot hold Christ and An●●christ.  and so far from opening the doors unto Christ▪ that they bar the doors against him, yea persecute him from their doors, cast him out of their City, yea out of the world if they could, and with him all such as seek to serve him with an upright heart according to his word, and will not continued with them in their sins & security. Now let your Church be examined by these works without partiality, and it shall easily appear of what sort it is (though we say nothing) whither it be the Church persecuting, or the Church persecuted, and so in the rest.  
Likewise if you & your learned Brethren be found in all points like these wretched. Watchmen by the description of the holy Ghost in this place, we doubt not but the most simple by the evidence thereof shallbe taught both to discern & judge you: And the greatest Clerk among you be taught hereafter, how to abuse the Scripture for a cloak to cover your sins. First therefore these Watchmen were appointed & approved of the secure & wicked City. Then they were in all things conformable to these corrupt times, and ministering to those times. Then they stood Pastors & Watchmen to the whole City hand over hand as they dwelled in the Parishes thereof (being called the Watchmen of the City). Then these Watchmen held the people in deep peace and security (as appeareth by the general sleep). Then they held the people in ignorance & blindness (as appeareth both by the night & their sleep). Then these Watchmen got all the power into their own hands (as appeareth by the general sleep of all others, their watching and persecuting). Then these Watchmen not only sought not Christ themselves, but suffered not others that would. Then these Watchmen not only showed not the way to such as sought Christ, but sought with one consent to turn them back again etc., by persecution. Whilst the church continued in the bed of securititie and wordly ease with the rest, and looked not for these heavenly things, but trusted the Watchmen with all such matters, even with her salvation, she was at good peace with them, 
The Watchmen punished not sin which before the● suffered in the Church, but Christ whom they cannot suffer.  and we read of no violence or force offered unto her. But after she was called & awaked by Christ: After she had risen, opened, sought & called him, but found him not: After she perceived that he was departed thence, and had fully resolved to give herself no rest, until she had found him: Then these Watchmen thought it high time to bestir them, and to stop this gap. And therefore what they could not persuade, they sought by force, persecuted, wounded her, rend away her vail by railings & reproaches, even the name of Christ by which she is called etc. Stands it not thus in all these points with our Watchmen? Let the times declare whither they agree not to them in their entrance & administration, and in their persecutions & slanders exceed them. Our purpose is not to make particular application, the matter being so evident: Only this little is said, to redeem the places from such violence and corruption as is offered unto them; and by the same places to give a glimpse to such, as the Lord hath opened the eyes of their understanding, to discover and search out the false dealing of their Watchmen, whom they too long & too far have credited, and to warn all that tender their own salvation to open their ears and their hearts to Christ's voice in his word, that calleth them out of this sinful easy couch, wherein their Watchmen have held them all too long; and that forsaking the tents of these presumptuous shepherds, they seek Christ whilst and where he may be found; and together with the Daughters of Jerusalem, the children of the free woman, the heirs of the promises, seek, preach, and praise CHRIST. Then no doubt they shall find him, to their unspeakable comfort: Then will he be as a Roe from the mountain of Bether, ready to help, succer and sustain them with his Flagons: Then will he come to his Palm tree, and take hold of her boughs: Then will he come into his Garden, and blow upon it, and water it, that the spices thereof may flow forth, and that he may eat the pleasant fruits thereof: Then shall he descend into the Orchard of sweet fruits & Pomegranates, and see whither the Figtree put forth, and the Vine flourish & bud her small grapes: Then will he prepare and make all things in a readiness for that great solemn day of the consummation of his marriage.  
The Lord grant we may likewise prepare & be in readiness, trimmed & prepared, that we may meet him with joy to our everlasting comfort, Amen. And the Lord shorten that day, and hasten his coming, Amen. Even so come Lord JESUS, come quickly, Amen: So be it.   

A PLAIN REFUTATION OF Mr. Giffard his reproachful Book, entitled, a short treatise against the Donatists of England etc.  
YOU were before showed, that we judged none otherwise & no further, them th' express word of God teacheth us to judge of you. That is, to know the tree by the fruit, and the fruit by God's word. You were there showed, That we judged not of God's secret election which he hath in all places amongst all sorts of men, but of the apparent odious sins of your Congregations; from which whilst you will not be purged, we may have no spiritual fellowship or communion with you in this estate. We showed you, that notwithstanding all your wickedness, we never doubted, but the foundation of God stood firm, the Lord having many thousands of his elect amongst you known to himself, though not apparent to to our eyes, whom he in his good time will call more near unto him. And therefore we with extreme longing & love towards you, sought & desired your conversion, that we might see that seal of God's grace upon your foreheads, wherewith all that name the name of Christ are sealed, 
2 Tim. 2 ●. 9  uzt. To departed from iniquity. To this end we did, and still do reprove in the name of our Lord JESUS CHRIST these heinous transgressions in your public assemblies, lying in your miserable Prisons, the lords witnesses against the same. To this end we exhort all men by all means, and admonished you of your present evil estate, as also blamed you for your former ungodly & false surmises, collections & charges, wresting & depraving our words contrary to all sense, equity, and conscience. We hoped that this thus far forth had sufficed, especially, seeing you rested in silence more than two years without any reply or contradiction: Until now at length upon your submission made▪ and consultation had with your Ordinary, you disclosed this Cockatrice egg, which you had so long sit upon, and all to sprinkled us with the viperous poison thereof. Terming us at the first dash Donatists, Brownists, Anabastites, Heretics, Schismatics, with infinite reproachful & horrible adjectives joined to the same, 
Math. 12. 34. 35.  which you have abundantly drawn out of the evil treasury of your own wicked heart, without cause given by us, or showed by you. Continuing still, and more & more abounding in the gall of bitterness, still charging us with intolerable pride, presumption, intrusion into God's judgement feat, in falsely charging, accusing, condemning your Christian assemblies, that profess the Gospel etc., notwithstanding all we have said to clear ourselves of those crimes, and to prove in particular the things we charged you with; the truth whereof remaineth now to be scanned. In which blasphemous vain of writing you but fulfil the measure of your sin, and those prophecies you were foretold of. They shall drink & be moved & be mad etc. They shall gnaw their tongues for grief, and blaspheme the God of Heaven for their pains & for their sores, and not repent of their works:  
FIRST then to this word [Principal] whereat you so stumble, and from which you draw such heretical conclusions: We give you to understand, that we used it only to signify and express unto you the four chief heads, from whence flow, and whether may be reduced all these several & infinite enormities & abuses, which abound in your church. As to the nature & quality of these 4. how far they extend, let the word of God judge: Yea let any by the same word judge. 1. Whether such assemblies as were never duly gathered unto CHRIST, but all the profane and open wicked of the land received by constraint into the body of your Church as members of the same, immediately from open idolatry and apostasy, without the preaching of the Gospel going before to call them to the faith, or any voluntary profession made by themselves in particular of their own faith; whether such Congregations as these may in this confusion be held & esteemed the true & rightly planted Churches of CHRIST. 2. Also, let any by the word of God judge, whether those Congregations which have not that ministery of the Gospel that CHRIST hath in his Testament instituted to his Church, but have & retain an other strange and Antichristian ministery, even that the Pope used & left in the Land, may be held the true and rightly planted Churches of CHRIST. 3. Moreover, let any judge, whether those Congregations which have not those orders and government which our Saviour CHRIST hath ordained and commanded unto his Church unto the worlds end, but (rejecting that) have & retain an other strange Antichristian government, even that Antichristian Hierarchy the Pope used and left in the Land, may be held the true & rightly established Churches of Christ. 4. Finally, let any (in whom is any spark of light) judge, Whether those Congregations that retain & use an other liturgy, that is, an other form of public administration and worship than Christ's Testament, especially such a patched, erroneous, idolatrous, blasphemous thing as theirs is, and will not be reform or withdrawn from the same, may be esteemed the true and rightly established Churches of Christ, such as Christ's faithful servants may have communion & fellowship with in their administration of prayers and Sacraments. But now where all these faults concur, and have not only obstinacy, but tyranny and persecution joined to the same, who can doubt of the matter? Whether also your Churches can remain in these transgressions, or you maintain the same, and not departed from the grounds and principles of Christian religion and faith, (which you boast to keep) let any which is any thing exercised in the word of God, judge. And thus by these few words are not only your. 3. inevitable dangers (into one of which you would needs shove us) but even your whole blasphemous Book, avoided at once. For why should we now either maintain this heresy. 1. That where the true faith is, there can break forth no great faults, errors, and abuses. Or this absurd manner of speech. 2. That all errors & deformities in Religion, be heresies, blasphemies, and abominations. Or else confess. 3. That with intolerable pride, presumption, and intrusion into God's judgement seat, we have taken upon us to judge and condemn whole assemblies which profess the faith of CHRIST sincearelie in all fundamental points. For holding that it cannot be held the true church of CHRIST rightly planted and established, where the people were received into the body of the Church before they were duly called unto the faith, or had made profession thereof: where they have not the true ministry of CHRIST, but a strange antichristian ministry imposed upon them: where they have not the government of CHRIST, but of Antichrist over them: where their administration & worship is not after the Gospel of CHRIST, but after their popish idolatrous liturgy: All this may safely be defended, without falling into any such inconvenience as Mr. Giffard threateneth.  
AS to the heresy he speaketh of, we doubt not, neither ever thought, but the best Church that consisteth of mortal men, may fall either of negligence or of ignorance, into grievous offences, and dangerous errors: Yea we doubt not but that some famous Churches & Christians may fall into such errors, as he termeth fundamental; the holding whereof should utterly subvert the faith. 
1 Cor. 15.  As in the Church of Corinth, Galatia, Asia there where that denied the resurrection; 
Gal. 3. and 4 Chap.  That revived the Ceremonial ●awes; 
Revel. 2. 14. 15.  That held the doctrines of Balaam and Nicholas. But this we hold withal, that no true Church or Christian will maintain any sin or error, when it is evidently showed & convinced unto them by the word of God, much less persecute such as reprove & admonished them, as you do. Or if they do, whilst they remain in that estate, they are not of us to be held the true Churches of CHRIST.  
TO your second charged we answer; That we have learned to put difference betwixt error & heresy. All good men (as is said) do & may err, but no good man will defend, or persist in his error, when it is showed and convinced unto him. Obstinacy joined unto error, after it is duly convinced, maketh heresy. Further we say, That any error being obstinately holden and taught, after it is duly convinced & reproved unto him, 
Titus 3. 10. 11.  maketh an heretic, and heresy in that party or in that Congregation that so holdeth and teacheth it, and doth separate from the faith & communion of Christ. 
Ro●. 16. 17.  Wherefore we can but wonder at your ignorance, 
1 Tim 6. 3. etc.  who stand for a Teacher in your church, and yet hold some errors obstinately held & taught against the truth of God, 
Deut. 17. 12.  not to be heresies, or (at the least) not to be fundamental; though you see by express rule every heretic after one and the second admonition, to be shunned. Yet say we not, that though every error thus obstinately held, be heresy, and every transgression against the law, be sin; that therefore all sins are equal, or all errors of like indignity. The law and judgements of God teach us to put difference:  
Neither is their cause why you should charged us or we confess ourselves guilty of pride, presumption, intrusion into Gods judgement seat, for condemning those assemblies which the whole word of God condemneth in all their doings. Greater is your pride, presumption, etc., that in this manner condemn and blaspheme the truth and servants of God for reproving your sins, that thus plead for and colour these filthy abominations of your Church, which are most odious to every good conscience. But this know for certain, howsoever the Shipmasters, 
reve. 18.  Mariners, and Marchantmen of these wares howl and cry out; howsoever the false Prophet labour to gild and adorn the false Church with the jewels, ornaments and titles that belong to the true Church; how much soever the Harlot do glorify herself, and say in her heart that she sitteth as a Queen, and is no widow, and shall see no sorrow; Yet shall her plagues come in one day, death, and sorrow, and famine, and she shallbe burnt with fire, because the God that condemneth her is a strong Lord:  
IN that you charged us with the breach of the rule Math. 18. unto you, this still proceedeth of your former vain conceit, arrogating unto your Churches such names, titles, prerogatives, duties, as belong and are only given to the true Churches of CHRIST. Not being able no● endeavouring to approve your Churches by the Testament of Christ, although you were often required and urged by us so to do▪ whereby all contention should soon have ceased, you been cleared & justified, we justly convict and charged. In the mean while we affirm unto you, That these golden rules only belong unto the true Church of CHRIST, 
reve. 11.  and that the Court without the Temple which is given to the Gentiles, is to be cast out, and not to be measured. The Cannons of the POPE which your Church embraceth, more fitly agree unto you, than the rules of Christ's Gospel, which your Church rejecteth and blasphemeth. But that we may the sooner see our fault, show us we pray you) how we might execute this rule unto you, how we might tell it to your Church, how we might be heard and have redress. For if by your Church you mean the Convocation house, you see how they have often openly rejected this suit: If you mean by your Church the Bishops (whom you call the chief governors of your Church) you see they blaspheme this truth, caling the order of Christ's government intolerable, dangerous to the subversion of Prince & state &c. they hate, persecute, imprison all that speak for, or seek the same. But if now you mean by Churches your Parish Churches, alas you see they want power; they can mend nothing, be it never so heinous or heretical; they must receive what their Lords the Bishops impose, and endure till they redress. How then, to whom, or to what end would you have us complain unto your Church in this estate; Or with what equity and conscience can you thus revile and condemn us for breaking Christ's order towards your Church, when you see your Church will not be subject unto Christ's order; but persecuteth us and all such as reprove their faults and seek to do Christ's will, because their works are evil and will not endure the light, when they are never so little examined thereby: As shall further appear but by a cursory touching of these principal transgressions following.  

THE FIRST PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION WHEREWITH YOUR CHURCHES ARE charged, IS.  
THAT they worship GOD after a false manner: Their worship being made of the invention of man, even of that man of sin, erroneous, and imposed upon them:  
We leave your first answer unto this Transgression, and our reply upon your said answer, to be perused and compared by the indifferent Reader, and now address ourselves unto this your second defence:  
FIrst to make our accusation & his answer more clear, Mr. give. translateth our Proposition into a Syllogism, thus, Whatsoever assemblies worship the true GOD after a false manner, their worship being made of the invention of man, even of the man of sin etc., the same are not the true Churches of God. But th' assemblies as they generally stand in England do worship the true GOD after a false manner, their worship being made of the invention of man etc., Therefore the assemblies of England be not the true Churches of God. We find Mr. Giffard so full of legier du main, that we had need look narrowly to his fingers, lest by his sophistry & deep school learning he beguile us, as the Serpent by his craftiness deceived Eva, and turn us not only from the true state of our controversy, but from the simplicity that in CHRIST. M. Giffard as it should seem finding these Propositions (as they were delivered him) all to hard and heavy for him, hath sought to lighten his burden by leaving out such matter & words as pressed him most sore, and then would run away with the rest as you see. The words he hath left out & aught to have joined to every Transgression, are these: wilfully obstinate, as appeareth in the very next words immediately going before these 4. Propositions. Further, in repeating & urdging the Transgression, he hath purposely left out these words, and imposed upon them, and in their places hath set etc. which serveth not the turn half so well. These words we can at no hand spare him, and therefore must entreat him to add them to both his first and second Proposition; which if he do, he shall then find the fearful conclusion to follow faster, than he with all his logic can avoid. For if they remain obstinate and incorrigible, yea incurable in their sins, disobedient to the voice of CHRIST, scorning his reprof, despising his grace, refusing to repent, having nether will nor power to amend, be their sin as small in their own eyes as they can imagine, as little as by their learned distinctions of Fundamental etc. they can any way make it; yet it being a transgression of Gods most holy law, 
Hebru. 2. 2  bringeth death; and being holden after this manner abovesaid, 
1 San. 15. 23  bringeth everlasting death; and doth in this estate separate them from the love, favour, and mercy of God, so far as we can judge. There can be no remission without repentance; nether can any be said to repent, 
Rom. 6. 23  whilst they obstinately persist in wilful transgression; 
Ezech. 18  nor the Lord in that estate to accept any offering at their hands, 
Esai. 57 21  be their offerings otherwise never so perfect and according to the law, 
Prou. 21. 27  as the scriptures plentifully witness. So then, if M. Giffard had taken the matter with him, he should not thus have altered the whole state of our Proposition, in stead of clearing it; neither should have had any cause thus to charged it with heresy after his accustomed manner, or to have produced his scholastical or (as he useth it) we might more rightly say, papistical distinctions of fundamental errors and transgressions: Wherbie what else should he infer, or doth he labour to prove, if not, That some errors & sins are (as the Papists say) mortal, others not deadly? Or else that which is more gross, That some error or transgression might be built upon the foundation. Because some errors and sins are of higher nature and offence than other, or because that the best men and Churches may fall into grievous errors and sins (which as we never denied, so we still to the stopping of our adversaries ungodly mouths, affirm:) Yet hence it followeth not, that because the best men and Churches that hold the foundation may err and sin, therefore any error or sin is of the foundation, or is not a transgression from the foundation. 
Ephe. 2. 20.  The written word of God, delivered by the Prophets and apostles is the foundation, 
1 Corin. 3. 11  CHRIST JESUS himself being the chief corner stone. 
● Tim. 3. 16  Every part of the scripture is a like true, inspired of God, 
2 Pet. 1. 19  given to our direction and instruction in all things. No error or transgression can be joined unto or built upon this foundation, no more than light & darkness can be mingled. The least departure from Gods word is an error; 
Mat. 5. 19  the least transgression of God's law is a sin; 
jam. 2. 10  the reward of the least error or sin is eternal death, if the mercy of God and merits of CHRIST come not betwixt; which mercy and merits belong not unto the impenitent and obstinate. 
1 joh. 1. 6  Therefore they that obstinately hold any error or transgression, and will not by repentance be purged from the same, lose CHRIST, and so hold not the foundation. Now then seeing Mr. Giffard hath a special fantasy to draw this Transgression more than any of the .3. Prinsipal Transgressions following, into form of argument (because in his bad conscience he did foresee they would press too sore) let the first Proposition be drawn into form of Argument, thus.  
Whatsoever assemblies worship GOD & administer according to an idolatrous liturgy imposed upon them, and continue wilfully obstinate in the said sins, are not in that estate to be esteemed or communicated with as the true Churches of God.  
But your public assemblies in England do worship God and administer according to such an idolatrous liturgy imposed upon them, and continue wilfully obstinate in the said sins.  
Therefore the public assemblies of England are not in this estate to be held or communicated with as the true Churches of God.  
But let us now return again unto that Argument which you have taken such pains to draw, and to confute in our names. The second or minor Proposition thereof you deny. uzt. That the Church of England doth worship God after a false manner, their worship ●eing made of &c. affirming your worship to be the embracing of the holy Bible, and by the doctrine thereof etc. Well let the holy Bible be judge betwixt us in all our controversies; and let your writing show how well you have approved your worship in those particular points which were recited & reproved unto you. But in our judgement you flee from this issue before you begin, in that you make so large an exception of imperfections, wants, spots, blemishes, faults, which destroy not the worship of God; otherwise (you say) your Church doth worship God aright without heresy, blasphemy, or idolatry. Now surely this is the odd & only exception that ever we heard of. Why if all imperfections, wants, spots, blemishes & faults were taken away, we durst join in the rest of your worship to you or the Pope either: The rest that remaineth must then needs be free and pure from heresy, blasphemy, or idolatry. It were a wonderful apostasy or heresy, where were no truth, especially when all corruption should be purged away. But if you mean that these faults thus reproved by us, and holden by you, do not corrupt God's worship amongst you; for the trial of this, let the nature and quality of them be duly examined by the word of God, and we doubt not but a little of such leaven shallbe found to make sour the whole lump: 
Gal. 5. 9  Yea that these spots and bleamishes you speak of (being looked in that pure glass) will appear the old running issues, 
Ec●l. 10. 1  & incurable botches of Egypt, which they have derived from their mother of Rome: Even of those malignant ulcers that are found upon the men which have the mark of the Beast, 
reve. 16. 2  and upon them which worship his image, for any defence that you have or can make for them.  
YEt unto the 4. apparent reasons in our general position of this transgression to prove your worship false and idolatrous, your peremptory answer is; That they but make apparent our vanity and Anabaptistical error. Our vanity, in that the 3. first 1. of the invention of man, 2. of that man of sin, 3. erroneous, are all but one. Our Anabaptistical error is in the 4. in these words imposed; wherein we challenge such a freedom to the Church, as that nothing may be imposed upon the flocks, that the Church-governors shall decree by the word. The 3. first of these reasons whereby his worship was proved to be idolatrous, he quietly suffering to pass and carry their conclusion, laboureth to prove all but one. Because saith he, whatsoever man inventeth in the worship of GOD is erroneous; And whatsoever is erroneous therein was invented by man; For all false worship is man's invention, whether it be the invention of the man of sin or any other, it is all one before God, who respecteth not persons, but the wickedness of the sin. Well, howsoever we might insist and show difference between that man of sin that Antichrist, and others that have not such cursed marks upon them; howsoever also we might show differences betwixt the devices of other more godly men (which devices peradventure in themselves contain no errors, until they be abused, set up, enjoined and read in the church etc.) and the Pope's Portesse, from which execrable plant all these idolatrous grafts are fetched: Yet will we not stand upon lighter matters with you contending whether the reasons may be said three or one. It sufficeth us, and we content ourselves to have proved & obtained, That the worship of your Church is erroneous, it being made of the invention of man: And yourself hath confessed, That whatsoever man inventeth in the worship of God, is erroneous. Now we may further conclude from the second Commandment, That whatsoever worship is devised by man, and whatsoever devise of man is put into the worship of God, is idolatry. But a great part, if not the whole worship of your Church, is devised by man, even by the man 〈◊〉 etc. Therefore the worship of your Church is idolatry. Let y●●r service-book prove our ●i●or Proposition, or your answers to the particulars, disprove it. And we in the mean time will proceed unto your answer unto the .4. part of our Proposition imposed upon them. Wherein you charged us with this anabaptistical error, That we should chalendg such a freedom, as nothing might be imposed upon the Church which the Church governors should decree by the word. It should seem certainly you know not what truth or error meaneth: Or else are so possessed with malice, as you make no conscience what truth you call heresy, or heresy you call truth, as appeareth by your unjust charging of us, and your ungodly defending all the abominations of the times. Who but you could draw this heretical collection from our words? we in the same sentence, and in the very next word immediately going before, having protested your worship to be erroneous? How may it follow, that because we deny errors to be imposed upon the Church, Therefore we deny that such things as the Elders shall determine of by the word of God, may be imposed upon the Church? Why what the Elders decree by the word of God, cannot be said to be the invention or the commandment of man, but of God, by whose direction they but pronounce and perform the will of God. But no error can be said to be of the word of God, and every invention of man (by your own confession) is erroneous; Therefore we may still & again here conclude, that seeing the worship of your church of England is made of the invention of man, even of the man of sin, erroneous, and imposed upon them, it is false & idolatrous, and such as no true Elders may impose, or the true Church of Christ receive. Further we say, that no true Elders of the Church, nor the whole Church yt self may decree or impose any thing by way of law, which Christ hath not decreed & imposed in his word. And if you hold otherwise (as your popish phrases Decree, impose upon the flocks seem to import) than we affirm, that you both hold a Papistical & Anabaptistical error, and utterly not only corrupt the worship & government of Christ, but bring in a new worship & government by bringing in & setting up your own decrees & devices as the Papists & anabaptists do.  
NOw cometh their liturgy or service-book which containeth the public worship & administration of their Church, to be examined by the word of God. The defence whereof Mr. GIFFARD though he be a sworn Priest after & unto the orders thereof, yet he very loathly and doubtfully undertaketh at the first entrance, as one that carrieth a witness and a judge, that could tell an other tale in his own conscience. He confesseth that as no man's works are perfect, so there are many and great faults in this Book, though (as it should seem) none of those particulars which we recited unto him (only the baptism by women excepted) seeing the laboureth to defend all the rest. But we which for some errors and spots hold it to be an idolatrous book, and the worship thereof idolatry, fall into that foul and detestable heresy of perfection? And in that we affirm it to be a pregnant Idol, full of errors, blasphemies, and abominations, we do falsely accuse, and impudently slander. These great words nether convince us, nor clear you; let them therefore remain upon your account. The truth of our charges, and the quality of your transgressions, shall by and by appear by the discussing the particulars. And for all your great threats of heresy, we still for the faults we have alleged (though there were no more, (as by your own confession there are both many more and greater) dare affirm your worship to be false, idolatrous, and abominable. The word of God caleth him an heretic that obstinately holdeth any one error after due conviction, though be hold much truth besides. There is no heretic that doth not hold some, yea much truth. The word of God pronounceth them idolators, that obstinately continue in any idolatrous and false worship, though they do many other things according to the rules of the word; else were not the Papists to be judged idolaters or Heretics. Shall all they now that judge according to the word of God, be guilty of that detestable heresy of perfection? What is this but to accuse God of heresy, whose judgements these are? Because we cannot be perfect here, therefore we ought not to contend towards perfection, by leaving that which is evil, 
Rom. 12. 9,  as it is showed unto us, and endeavouring to do that which is good? Might not the Mass-book, and the most vile heresies be thus defended and justified; Because they are not perfect, therefore they not evil? Because they cannot be perfect, therefore they will leave none evil? This is Mr. GIFFARDS' best divinity he hath, to defend the worship of his Church: But let us now come to the particular defaults in their worship by us objected, and by him defended.  
Mr. GIFFARD being demanded where he found in the new Testament the Romish Fasts of his Church, As their Embers, Saints Eaves, and Lent; first confesseth, that in the whole Bible he can find no warrant for any Romish fasts. But afterwards (lest he should be unlike himself) saith, that we injuriously slander and belie their Church in matching them with the blasphemous Synagogue of ROME: Seing they place not in abstinence from meats either the worship of God, remission of sins, nor merit: Seing they condemn the doctrine of Devils etc. Why should we by his railing and subtle cavils be withdrawn from our present question, which because he dare not answer, and cannot approve his Embers, Saints Eaves, and Lent Fasts by scripture, he seeketh to turn away, and to cavile about other doctrines, as the putting holiness, merit etc., in the abstinence and the restraint of meats, wherewith he was not charged by us; yet whereof happily (if he were narrowly sought and followed) he could not so well clear his Church, as he supposeth. We only made question of things done, and of the present practice of their Church▪ Namely, how he could approve their Embers, Saints Eaves, and Lents, which we called Romish fasts, by the word of God; At which words he picketh a quarrle, that he might not be urged to prove his Embers, Saints Eaves, Len● fasts by the Scripture. But let him cavil as much as he list at this word Romish; wheresoever and whensoever they were invented, it is certain they were brought into and left in the Church by the POPE, and are still used (though not altogether after so idolatrous a manner) at the same holy tides as they were and are in the Romish Church; and therefore are still to be called upon his, name, what Prince soever after command them, or what Church soever use them. And evil provide they for their Prince's honour, that make her the author of such abominable idolatrous stuff, as these Romish fasts, your Embers, Saints Eaves, Lents are, which he can no way colour or excuse by any politic laws, or transfer the blame from their Church thereby. No politic laws can make that lawful, which the word of God condemneth. No politic laws can excuse the Church from breaking the Commandments of God. Nether may these fasts be esteemed civil actions, because the Prince's law commandeth them: For so might all their worship of God be held civil actions, because the Prince's laws in like manner commandeth them. But these fasts are commanded and solemnly proclaimed in their Church and that by the Priest, as he is directed by his Rubric, orderly as they arise in their Calendare. The people are summoned to the Synagogue unto public prayer, all commanded to fast etc.: shall we call this a civil action? Nay sure it must be as much and as well ecclesiastical as any other part of the worship and administration of your Church. Well, and besides that you have received and derived these fasts from the Church of ROME, let your special Collects, upon your Saints Eaves, your bitter commination and special communion upon your Ash wednesday, with your Epistle out of joel 2. 12. Turn you unto me with all your hearts, with fasting, weeping, and mourning etc., your Gospel out of Matthew 6. 16. When you fast be not sad as the Hypocrites etc.▪ Likewise your Collect and Gospel upon the first Sundaye of your Lent, making mention of CHRIST'S 40. days fast in the wilderness, desiring that your 40. days fast may subdue the flesh etc. Let this your apish, or rather popish counterfeighting. Let your special communions in your Passion week, your Maundy Thursday, your Good friday etc., show how popishly you keep these your fasts. Further, let your general inhibition of flesh and of marriage at these Popeholie tides, and your Bishops special dispensation for both, by their licences for money, show, how popishly your Church of England keepeth these idolatrous execrable fasts; and whether herein your Church maintaineth not the doctrines of Devils. To conclude, let any man by the Testament of CHRIST judge, whether these annuary prescribed fasts by way of law unto all Congregations from year to year, at set times and ceasons, without any present occasion so urging, be any thing like those holy Christian fasts which the primitive Churches used, either according to their general or particular occasions:  
NExt ensue your idol feasts, your All-hallows, Candlemas, several Lady days, Saints days, and dedicating your Churches unto Saints. Here you say we thunder out terror, as if the Church of England did worship Idols and celebrate feasts in the honour of false Gods: and yet all is but a stark lie, and a wicked slander. Here your evil conscience fearing the blow before it come, can provide no ward but your accustomed railing, which is the way to make it more heavy & soar. If you had according to our requests approved your feasts & holy days of your Church etc., by the Testament of Christ, we had yielded thereunto; or howsoever, you had thereby been freed from these fears & judgements that pursue your evil conscience. Then had you not upon this occasion needed or used these vain protestations, how you hold but one only God, and one Mediator between God & man, the man jesus Christ, That God only is to be worshipped through the mediation of Christ, That Saints are not to be worshipped, no days to be celebrated in their honour, nor Churches dedicated unto them: How bitterly then do you slander? That you keep no such Feasts, dedicate Eaves, Days, and Churches in their name, you can with no shame deny; for the present practise of your church through every month in the year, showeth this true. Only now it remaineth in question, whether these Feasts etc., be consonant to Christ's Testament, or idolatrous. And you being requested, aught to have proved this keeping these Feasts, these holy Cessations by way of law, this dedicating Eaves, Days and Churches in Saints names, by the evident testimony of God's word, before you had thus reviled us. But surely as you are more than loath to be drawn to the trial & proof of this stuff, so take we no delight to rake in this most noisome dung of your solemn Feasts & vain worship, 
Math. 15. 8.  which you (as sweet odours) offer up unto God in the name & mediation of his Son Christ jesus. What will you answer unto God (though you will vouchsalf us none answer) when he shall ask you who hath required these things at your hands? What will you then plead for your jewish feasts of E●ster & P●nticoste? 
Gala. 4. 9  If you say you keep them not after the manner of the jews, yet can you not be said to keep them according to Christ's Testament; for there you have no warrant for such feasts. What will you plead for your popish feasts of Christmas, All-hallows, Candlemass, etc. For your dividing and devising Christ's life into a stage-play, celebrating his birth upon one day, his Circumcision upon an other, his epiphany (as you call it) upon an other etc., yea any of these upon one special day more than an other? But where have you learned to keep them after your heathen and profane manner, with garnishing your earthly houses, decking your bodies with gay clothes, great cheer in gluttony, excess, riot, idle games, dicing, dancing, mumming, masking, wassaling; what precedent can you show of such worshipping and feasting, except it be that holy day which the Israelites kept before the Calf unto the Lord in the wilderness Exod. 32. 5. 6. where have you thus learned CHRIST? Is this to keep the feast with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth? to crucify the old man? to be planted to the similitude of his death & of his resurrection & c? What can you there plead for your superstitious devotions towards your Lady, keeping a Day, an Eve, a Fast, a Feast, a cessation from all labours, an especial worship to her Annunciation, an other to her Purification yearly in your Church? It were good you would consider of these things what you can answer: for certis we poor ignorant Christians can see no other mystery in the matter, but that it is detestable idolatry, even that very pouring out your drink offerings and burning incense to the Queen of heaven. 
jere. 44.  further what will you then say to your celebration of dead Saints, keeping one solemn day unto them all at once? And again severally to john Baptist, and to the Apostles as they are allotted in their Pageant: George also your St. Patron must not be forgotten: A day also is kept to the martyr Stephen, an other day to the Innocents, with their day, eve, fast, feast, cessation, special worship to every one perticularlie. What warrant can you show for this out of the Bible? The patriarchs, Prophets, godly Kings were never so celebrated● neither have you any commandment or precedent in all the new Testament thus to celebrate them. Paul & Peter whilst they were alive desired to be remembered and prayed for of the Church, but never required any such duty being dead. Further, what will you answer for your keeping a day, cessation etc. to St. Michael & all Angels? how will you excuse yourself of most high idolatry, 
Collos. 2. 18. 19  advancing yourself in things you never saw, rashly puffed up of your fleshly mind, and not holding the head, depriving others of their Crown? It will not then stand, to say, you worship the Lord by these devices; for so said your Fathers in the wilderness. 
Exod. 32. 5.  To morrow the holy day of the Lord. The Lord he willbe worshipped according to his own will revealed to us in his word; and not by our devices, how holy soever they seem. If then God be not worshipped with this kind of worship, their Idols are; or (to speak rather as the Prophets and the Apostles do) the devil is worshipped thereby. levit. 17. 7. De●t. 32. 17. 2 Chronicles. 11. 15. 1 Corint. 10. 20. And thus your own conclusion which you took so heinously, falleth apace upon you; and you have not brought one reason to save or clear yourself. As to your doctrines by you verbally alleged concerning God and his worship, the idolatrous Israelites and jews in their greatest schism & diepest apostasy could have alleged many true doctrines also. But nothing is more sure than this; Christ is not a Priest for such sacrifices as his Either is not pleased with. Nether is he a Mediator of any other Testament than his own. As to the Dedication of your Churches unto dead Saints, and the caling them by their own names, the first you say was the fault of the Papists, but you in caling them after the same names do not sin. Was it a fault in your predecessors so to dedicate & call them, and shall it be no fault in you so to call them as they had dedicated & left them unto you? But you so call them only to distinguish them. Why this excuse they also had. But they had further superstition in these places and Saints. And do not you nourish the same superstition in the weak, and animate the Papists in their sins, by ratifying these their doings and calling your Churches by the same names they baptised them in? But might we ask you where you thus learned to call & distinguish christian Congregations in the Scriptures? your answer & place is ready, Luke. Acts. 17. caleth a street in Athens, Mars street, and ask us if he therefore dedicated it to that heathy God. We answer you, that if Luke should so give the name & call it speaking in his own person for himself, he should sin & commit idolatry, in naming the Creature of God after an Idol, as you do in caling the Da●es & your Churches after the names of such Saints. 
Psal. 16. 4.  David saith he will not take the names of their Idols in his lips. But Luke here recordeth the history of such things as came unto PAUL in Athens, and the vulgar name of the place whether the Athenian Philosophers led Paul, naming it after their manner not that himself so called it willingly, or to give us boldness to do the like, but rather to manifest their fault & superstitious fear they stood in of their Idols as Paul verse▪ 22. showeth, by the reproof of their fault, teaching us to avoid the like. And can you collect that because Luke writeth that they of Athens named a street after Mars, they of Alexandria signed a ship unto Castor & Pollu●, that christians may by those places name or call any thing in their possession after Idols or dead Saints? Is this the best doctrine you can draw, & use you can make of this Scripture? yet is it the only place of Scripture you have used to approve any part of your public worship, which we had blamed unto you. We will not stand to urge the Popery & superstition of some of the Saints names of your Churches, how some of them are called after Christ's sepulchre, others after all the rabble of Saints both men & women, Saints in the POPE'S Calendare; but proceed to the rest of your trumpery.  
AS your Combinations, Rogations, Purifi●ations. Your Comminations you say are a part of Canonical Scripture, which is to be read in the Church Parts of Canonical Scripture, indeed they are, by you miserably dismembered & bound up together, and wickedly used and perverted to such superstition & idolatry, being used in the place & upon the day of popish shrift: Or rather (as your Portesse saith) in the place of the Discipline of the church, and of the Penance, used in the beginning of Lent. Thus in the best use of it by your own confession it is an execrable Idol, in that it is brought into your Church, and supplieth the place of Christ's discipline in his Church, and is used in stead thereof until Christ's discipline may be restored again (which you there say is much to be wished) yt being nothing less than that which it standeth for by your own confessions in the preample before your Comminations: 
●●●har. 11.  It remaineth then the instrument of those Idol shepherds to feed the sheep of destruction with the curse of God, being sealed unto your whole Church by your own mouths, All your Church being generally found, and wilfully remaining guilty in some sins there condemned: As these public idolatries, others, and each one in sundry particulars: as deceit, wrong, whoredom etc. We will not here stand to discuss the folly & Popery of this solemn piece of your worship and administration. Penance & your Lent fast are gross to every one, in whom is any light.  
YOur Rogations you say are but limiting the bounds of every Parish, to avoid contention. But we would then know of you how it became an act of your Church, a part of your Pastor's office, to be done by the Parson and the parish Clarcke with the rest of the parishners, certain Psalms the Litany & Collects being said over the Grass, Corn, and Cat-tail, in place of the popish procession. Yea there are of your Priests that will not fail to read a Gospel when they come at a cross way orderly. This is somewhat more than visiting the bounds. Nether ever thought we that such civil actions had belonged to the Church & Ministry. 
Luk. 12. 14  Christ would not be made a divider here on earth, there are Civil judgement seats appointed thereunto. And howsoever this public solemn worship be commanded by other injunctions of your Church, and not by your service-book, yet according to that book is this solemn action performed.  
PVrifications you say are annexed to make up our rhyming figure: For nether your Book nor doctrine of your Church alloweth any other purification, then in the blood of the Lamb etc. nether yet did the jews (from whom the Pope (as it should seem) derived this worship) hold any other purification than in the blood of that Lamb, although they figured that blood by sundry rites & ceremonies, of which sort this manner of bringing women to the Priest in the Church after childbirth, and a certain number of days expired, was. Yet seeing you will at no hand be said to imitate the jews herein, you must then take it from the Pope of necessity, for other author you can find none for it, nether any precedent or warrant in the Testament of Christ: The woman's monethlie restraint and separation from your Church, her coming after that just time wympeled, vealed, with her Gosips & Neighbours following her, her kneeling down before and offering unto the Priest, The priests Churching, praying over her, blessing her from Son and Moon, delivering her in the end to her former vocation, show somewhat besides giving of thanks. But if it should be admitted only a thanksgiving, We would then know of Mr. Giffard or his Ordinary, how this particular & ordinary (though miraculous) matter, more than all other strange acts, wonderful and extraordinary deliverances both by sea and by land, many and great benefits of the Lord both to men and women, should be made a public action of the Church, an especial part of the public worship and administration thereof; And what warrant they have in Christ's Testament for this. But if they there have none, why other particular and private benefits may not aswell be brought into the Church also, and be enjoined by law, as this; and than what end would there be of these devices, and what place to the public ministry of God's word in the Church? Further we would know of them why these women should by law be constrained to defer their thanksgiving until the month be expired, Or if they have given God thanks before privately, why they should for his private & peculiar benefit be compelled to give thanks publicly again for the same, or rather to hire the Priest to give thanks for her again. Of these points touching this matter, we would crave Mr. Giffards' learned and direct answer in his nextbooke.  
NExt come your Tithes, Offerings, Mortuaries. These you say are but for maintenance of your Ministry, and not as a matter tied of necessity unto a priesthood, as in the time of the law; and if they were, the error were not fundamental. We never doubted but that they were the maintenance of your Ministry; but whether the Ministry of Christ now under the Gospel may be so maintained, is the question. We read in the Testament, that the Ministry of the Gospel ought to be maintained by the flocks unto which they attend, 
1 Cor. 9  and that by the free & loving contribution of the faithful, 
Gal. 6. 6  according to the Ministers necessity, & the people's ability from time to time. 
1 Tim. 6. 8  We read not in the Testament that this contribution ought to be imposed by way of 1. law, 
Mat. 10.  or 2. bargain upon the people; 
2 Cor. 11. 20  As by paying tenths, thirds, 40. or 50. pounds a year. 
1 Thes. 2. 5  We find not in the Testament that the Ministers of CHRIST ought to sell their administration, 
2 Pet. 2. 15  as the Sacraments etc. 
●●d. 11. 12. 13  Now let the Tithes, Offerings, set wages of your Ministry (we mean the inferior common ministry of Parsons, vicars, roving Curates, or hireling Preachers, and not of the Lordly sort which live as Princes in Palaces, nor of your Collegiate Priests in their dens) be examined by these rules, and tried, whether they have any foundation in the word of God or no. As to their accursed covetousness & odious port-sale not only of their own tougues, but of that Gospel & ministration (which they pretend) of your Sacraments, Baptism, Supper, Churching, Marrijng, Burijng etc. and that to the most profane and ungodly for their tithes, offerings, wage etc., Mr. Giffard shall never be able to hide from God, or excuse before men. It would require a large discourse to set down how these their tithes accord in every particular unto the Levitical decimations; 
N●m. 18  And how dangerous now it were to revive, and unpossible to join these laws unto CHRIST'S Ministry and Gospel. If that priesthood be removed, 
Hebr. 7. 12  there must be of necessity a removing of the law. They that revive any part of the Ceremonial law, 
Gal. 5. 3. 4  are bound to the whole law, 
Phil. 3. 2  and abolished from CHRIST. Let Mr. Giffard then look whether this error be fundamental as he caleth it, being obstinately held. The Prince's commandment will no more change the nature of this law, than the commandment of Ezekia and other godly Kings did before time, For so might all the laws of God which Princes should command be transferred from God to men. If it be said they use these Tithes etc. otherwise, so also might the Galatians and Corinthians have said of such ceremonies as they would have joined to the Gospel.  
Now are we to take a view of your manner of visiting the sick & houseling them with the Sacrament. Your Absolution, Dirges, and funeral Sermons over & for the dead. You confess a manner of visiting the sick prescribed, but you demand of us where we have seen it practised by, or urged at their hands which are able and diligent Pastors, by these that have the government of your Church. We answer, that it sufficeth to be commanded and prescribed by your service-book unto all your Ministers and Churches, to the diligent observation whereof all full Priests are sworn. further your Churchwardens & Sidemen are sworn to present all defaults therein at the archdeacons or Commissaries Courts. So that no marvel though this book be found in the hands of the most diligent & able Priests, reading it over women at their Churching, over the married, over the sick, over the dead, and where not. And for Mr. Giffards' satisfying, we give him to weite, that as learned Priests as he, have used this book to the visitation of the sick. And now we would know of him why these able Priests should have more liberty to pray by the the direction of the spirit for and with the sick, according to their present estate, them they are allowed by those that ha●e the government of your Church in the public prayers of the whole Church, according to the present estate thereof. To conclude, we would know of him by what warrant in God's word the Church can prescribe & enjoin such a form of visiting etc.  
As to their Absolution which Mr. Giffard so slily would pass over without speakinh any word thereof, Let the Reader understand that nothing can be more popish or blasphemous than it is: where a sacrilegious Priest taketh upon him by the authority committed unto him, to absolve the sick from all his sins. Hath any mortal man power to forgive sins? Or is it not the office of God alone? Hath the Priest power to forgive all sins, such as are not made unto him? What horrible blasphemy is this? To him that hath power to forgive all sins, to him we may make our prayers and supplications, him only may we worship. Hath the greatest Minister of the Church any more power to retain or lose the sin of the least member, than the said member hath to bind or lose his sin▪ Doth not this rule of our Saviour aswell extend unto him as to the least in the Church, 
Luk. 17. 3.  If thy brother sin against thee rebuke him, and if he repent forgive him? 
Rom. 16. 17.  Hath not the Church power to reprove and cast out their Pastor if he so deserve? 
1 Tim. 5. 20  Is not all this binding & losing done by the word of God, 
Psal. 149.  and not by any power or excellency of man? Hath not the word of God the like power and effect against sin in the mouth of the least of God's servants, as in the mouth of the greatest? Let this Collect then (whereby the Priest in their liturgy by the power committed unto him absolveth the sick of all his sins) remain one witness (amongst many other) of their Popery, and until more come, of most high blasphemy.  
Mr. GIFFARD taketh very heinously at our hands this phrase of housling, with the Sacrament terming yt a false packing in us, and goeth about to purge his Church thereof, by showing how it denieth all the wicked blasphemous corrupt doctrines of the Papists touching the lords Supper: And also denieth, that a man is of necessity to receive it at his death. Thus ever with his impertinent matters he withdraweth and shrinketh from the present question. We must therefore still call him back to the point, and demand of him what warrant in CHRIST'S Testament their Church hath to institute a private Communion, or to administer the Supper of the Lord in any other place than where the church is assembled. This if he can do, than indeed we have faulted in caling yt an Housel. 
1 Cor. 11. 20  But if he can show no warrant for this private domestical Communion, than we must still blame this action as popish, superstitious, and irregular, what doctrines soever they hold of the lords Supper besides. Again, though they exhort and persuade the sick person that this Sacrament is not then of necessity; Yet if he be so superstitious to require it, the Priest than is bound of necessity to deliver yt him, though there be no more to receive than they two. And what is this but to nourish superstition, or to make the Sacrament so delivered of great value & profit unto them. Thus iugleth & toyeth your Church with the holy things of God at her pleasure:  
THe Papists you say that invented the Purgatory, had also their blasphemous diriges & prayers for the dead: But we are more than impudent in lying, to term the prayers which you use at burials, such: seeing your Church denieth the Purgatory, prayers for the dead etc. We will not requite you with evil words, but let the proof of these matters declare who is a liar and impudent. We would therefore first know of you where you have learned to make the burial of your dead an ecclesiastical action, part of the Pastor's office, and to make it an especial part of your worship, if not of the POPE? Then where you learned to bury in your Hallowed Churches and Churchyards (as though you had not fields and ground to bury in) with a special Dirige and liturgy, with prayers, Singers, Ringers, Mourners, Beades-men etc., if not of the POPE? It were too long to show the original and process of this superstition, with the great advantage that cometh to the priests thereby. It were needles also to show, how this your liturgy, Dirige and prayers, are fetched and pieced out of the POPE'S Portesse. It were curious to relate the watching, preparing, arraying, crossing, dressing the corpse to the grave, also the array of the Mourners with all the superstition of the Heralds, the attire of the Priests and clarks, with their times and place when and where to receive, when to rest, when to sing, to read, to pray, when and with what words to cast on the first shovel of earth by the hand of the Priest, the grave being made east and west etc. Only this in general we say, that all these devices (seeing God nowhere commandeth them in his word) are vain, superstitious, and fond, as whereby God's name is highly taken in vain, profaned, and abused; yea his holy spirit most impiously blasphemed & despited. For whilst the whole land is of their Church, and they bury all that die in their Church of their natural death after this manner with this liturgy (but such as die of any violent death, how christianly soever, they vouchsalf not thus to bury) pronouncing in the Collect they use whilst earth is casting on, that God in his mercy hath taken to himself the Soul of that their dear Brother or Sister departed, they thereby justify the most wicked, graceless, impenitent wretches, Atheists, blasphemers, Idolarours, Papists, Anabaptists, Heretics, Conjurers that die in their sins, as though such could have any benefit by the death of CHRIST, or the mercy of God belonged unto such as die in their sins impenitent, except peradventure the priests prayers now, the holiness of the ground, and this christian burial etc., may help him; thus openl●e contradicting th'express word of God, and hardening all the rest of your profane Atheists, idolaters, whoremasters, blasphemers in their sins. Likewise in an other Collect, where they desire God, that they with that their departed brother may have a perfect consummation & bliss both in body & soul, what do they but pray for the Soul of the dead, seeing they bury all with this Collect, and some must needs die apparently wicked, and impenitent. Yea what do they hereby but establish a Purgatory, or some such mean place, for in▪ Hell there is no redemption. Thus whither doth not man wander whilst he followeth his own inventions, and forsaketh the strait paths of the Lord.  
AS to their venal funeral Sermons, they have as little ground or warrant in the Scriptures, as their Dirige and funeral Collects have. Well may they derive them from the funeral Orations of the Heathen Orators, but no precedent they have of the godly in any age so to bury their dead. We read of no such matter at any of the patriarchs, Prophets, or godly kings burial. No nor at the burial of our Saviour CHRIST, of the Martyr Stephen, of the Apostle james, or any of the faithful in those times; yet were there as godly, religious, learned, and able men to do it then alive & remaining, as they that think the best of themselves now, if the holy Ghost had seen it so needful.  
NExt fellow your corrupt manner of administering the Sacraments, the Font, the Cross in baptism, your Gossips, and blasphemous Collects used to this Sacrament, your Baptism by women, Bishoping, with other heretical Collects of this book &c. when we show (you say) why the font is an abomination, you shall know what to say. How idolatrously the Font was invented, brought into the church, hallowed, & the POPE, is evident to all men. Whether they fetched this from the jews Lavar, Sea, or Base, we will not here dispute. Sufficeth it us that it is an idolatrous, popish, enchanted, hallowed relic, wherein they put & kept their enchanted hallowed water, and used it to many execrable idolatries. 
Deut. 7.  Therefore it is an abomination to the Lord, a detestable Idol that ought to be utterly abolished by the law of God, and ought not to be used in his Church and worship. 
2 king. 18. 4  further seeing it nourisheth the Papists, 
Rom. 14.  the weak and ignorant in their foreconceaved superstition, 
1 Cor. 8.  and is an offence unto the godly, if it were a thing in liberty, yet aught is not to be thus used, much less thus enjoined & retained by virtue of law upon all Congregations. And seeing in the best imagination of it, it is not an instrument of any more necessity or use v●to this Sacrament than any other clean and decent vessel, seeing also our Saviour CHRIST hath not separated any vessel or water to this use; 
1 Cor. 6. 12.  We cannot see how a few men may be thus bold to command this vessel upon all Churches by way of law, and to forbid all other unto this use. For what is this but to restrain that which God hath left in liberty, to control God, 
Gal. 5. 1.  and to make new laws for his Church. And why might they not by the same usurped power bring in what unnecessary Ceremonies they list, even all their forefathers the Jews & Popes infinite traditions, aswell as these popish devices & jewish ordinances abovesaid; aswell as these popish idolatrous relics of font, Bells, Organs, Music, Surplices, Copes, Vestiments, Habits, Hoods, caps, Tippetts, Tire etc.  
But if these least little things, which they call matters indifferent, wherein all men ought to obey, prove so heinous in God's eyes, so pernicious to the whole Church, what shall we think of their Simbolical Ceremonies, tryfling, iocolings that they have added to their Sacracraments? As unto their Baptism a Dialogue betwixt the Priest, the clerk, the Godfathers, Godmothers, and the Infant; the sign of the Cross, the sanctifying or making holy their water etc. Their four sorts of Baptisms. Namely, 1. Their public Baptism by the Priest etc. 2. Their hasty Baptism by women. 3. Their Baptism by supposition. N. if thou be not baptized I baptise thee etc. 4. And their Lord the Bishop his Baptism, or Confirmation of CHRIST'S baptism. Likewise in their Sacrament of the Supper their frivolous liturgy stinting the Priest when and how to stand at the North end of the Table, what and when to say and pray, when to kneel, when to turn, when to glory God etc. Also the vain Dialogue betwixt the Priest, Clarcke, and People. Their altering the words of CHRIST'S institution, and delivering it after a popish manner. The body of our Lord JESUS CHRIST which was given for thee preserve thy Body and Soul unto everlasting Life etc., and that kneeling, that they might adore the bread, or at least retain a taste of their former superstition in time of high popery etc. Of this Sacrament they have also divers kinds, with divers Leitourgies. As public, or ordinary; Solemn, upon certain of their Festivals; And private, or domestical. Not here to speak of their other half Sacraments, As their Penance or Commination upon Ash-wednesday, with their special liturgy thereunto. Their Sollemnization of Marriage in the body of their Church upon the lords day or otherwise by the Priest, with his book and special liturgy, with a Ring (as the element) to be laid▪ upon the service-book, which doth hallow it in stead of holy Water: with which ring the man must be taught of the Priest to wed his wife etc., And the married offer unto the Priest and Clerk.  
TOuching the Cross, Mr. Giffard confesseth it to be most blasphemously and horribly abused in Popery, they ascribing unto it power to drive out devils, and worshipping it with divine honour. We looked that after his accustomed manner he should have said, But our Church doth not so think of or worship the Cross, Therefore you Brownists most impudent lie slander etc. But in stead of this he saith never a word to the matter in particular: Save unto Symbolical ceremonies in general he is of judgement, That the ancient Churches immediately after th'apostles time did offend, in taking over much liberty to ordain ceremonies Symbolical: Yet he doubteth not, but very reverend godly learned men, led by th'example of those holy Fathers, have judged it lawful for the Churches to ordain such Ceremonies. We would first therefore know of those reverend godly learned, and not of Mr. Giffard why they (now that all are Christian and no heathen amongst them) retain & enjoin this superstitious sign of the cross in th'administration of their baptism. Also whether they are not persuaded, That our Saviour Christ's institution which the Apostles taught and delivered unto the Churches touching th'administration of the Sacraments, was perfect and fully sufficient. If they so think of it, Whether they judge it lawful for any mortal men, or the whole Church, willingly & wittingly to alter or add any thing to, or pluck any thing from the said institution of our Saviour in the Sacraments: Or if they so add, Whether our Saviour doth accept and bless it, as his own institution. And if God do not accept or bless such Sacraments, where his institution is thus wilfully violated and changed, How such adulterate Sacraments may be said the true seals of God's Covenant; especially where such a blasphemous horrible, popish, idolatrous ceremony is used, as Mr. Giffard confesseth this sign of the cross to be, except it be better with them than it was with the Papists: Or how may the faithful in this estate join unto them. And now it would be known of Mr. Giffard (seeing he in his own judgement condemneth these Symbolical ceremonies) how he dare thus presumptuously break CHRIST'S institution in delivering them after the manner prescribed, and join unto those men that enjoin those ceremonies, against such of CHRIST'S faithful servants as reprove them, stand, and suffer againgst them. Is not this most fearfully and presumptuously to tempt God, to sin against his own conscience? It is no excuse unto him to say, the best reformed Churches do use witnesses (he meaneth Godfathers, and Godmothers) in baptism. For his own conscience knoweth and judgeth, that the best Churches do err in so doing.  
Further, Baptism being public, to be delivered openly in th'assembly when the whole Church is met together, what need more witnesses of the matter then the whole Congregation. But how wicked and impious is that law of their Church, which forbiddeth the Parents to answer and undertake for the bringing up their own children in the true faith and fear of God, and driveth them to bring Popish Gossips or sureties, who must both undertake, vow, and answer for their child, That he doth forsake the Devil & his works etc. What can be more vain, foolish, and ridiculous?  
TO the Baptism by women you answer, 
M. Giff. here confesseth both some members of their Church to be popish, superstitious, & ignorant; And also this baptism of their Church to be such.  That it is both condemned by the chief Governors of your Church, and is not practised, except it be among the popish & superstitious ignorant sort. First we must oppose the public law of your Church against those your governors, who we suppose (as confidently as you speak) will not prove in the plural number, when the point cometh to scanning. Your law in 3. places of your Portesse doth not only allow the baptism by women, but publicly justify it, and maketh a kind of necessity of such private baptism: Saijng, that if the child be in danger, they may baptize it at home without a Minister, and that in this case they have done well & according to due order, concerning the baptizing of this child, which being borne in original sin & in the wrath of God, is now by the laver of regeneration in baptism received into the number of the children of God, and heirs of life everlasting. Wherein, besides that they most highly break & profane th'institution and ordinances of Christ concerning the public seal of this holy Covenant, in delivering it without a lawful Minister privately in a house, rashly, and unreverently without due order etc., they also consequently maintain & teach these popish blasphemous errors thereby. That if the child had died unbaptized, it had been damned; And that baptism is of necessity to salvation: For else what needed so great fear & haste, that they would not stay to bring the child to the public Congregation, no no● so much as for the Minister to baptize it? Or how could there he so great cause and so great necessity in the matter as their book mentioneth, if they thought that the salvation of the child hung not upon the Baptism? Wherbie is manifestly convinced, as also by their words not secretly implied, That they hold Baptism the cause, and not the seal of salvation. For else to the infant now dying what good could baptism do? Or which way could it be a Laver of regeneration unto it, or receive it into the number of God's children? We had thought that the salvation of the child had only hung upon th'eternal election and predestination of God: And that the seal of the Covenant had belonged into it, by reason of the Parents faith, and is administered not as any help or present benefit to the new borne infant, so much as when it cometh to riper age to be a continual comfort & help unto it.  
BIsshopping Mr. Giffard saith is little used or urged in the Church of England, being loath belike to make any defence thereof. Yet it is certain that the Priest is in his Portesse enjoined to command, That the children be brought to the Bishop to be confirmed, so soon as they can say in the vulgar tongue, the articles of their faith etc. Also in an other place of their said service-book there is an express law. That none shallbe admitted to the holy Communion, until such time as he can say the Catechism, and be confirmed. How accord these laws to Mr. Giffards' saying, that it is little used? But what a monstrous matter is this confirmation of their Church, where the Baptism of CHRIST is to be confirmed of a wretched man, if he were (as he is nothing less) a servant of CHRIST? Yea that Christ's faithful servants (whom CHRIST hath already publicly baptized, received, and engrafted unto himself) should be kept from the comfortable table of the Lord, until they have a popish Bishop his confirmation? Not here to mention the binding of the faith of the whole Church to an Apocrypha Catechism. Yet to make this their confirmation either of greater estimation, or more execrable with all men, they add in the second cause many special virtues thereof. Namely, that by their imposition of hands and prayer, such as are so confirmed by them, may receive strength and defence against all temptations to sin, and the assaults of the World and the Devil. Surely if this be true, great is the bishops fault to neglect the practice thereof; but how great then our sin, to blame and condemn such a wonderful & excellent ordinance. But doubtless this is either too good or too bad to be true. If all they upon whom these Bishops shall lay their hands & pray over, shall receive strength and defence against all temptations to sin, and the assaults of the world and the devil, then shall all they that receive this Confirmation be undoubtedly saved. Yea if any of them whom the Bishop shall thus confirm, shall receive this strength and defence etc., then have the bishops greater power, and their prayers more virtue, than eue● God g●ue to any mortal man, yea then ever he gave to our Saviour CHRIST himself; with whom though judas were continually conversant his most Heavenly doctrines and holy prayers, yet the Devil entered into him and prevailed against him. Though Peter were a right dear and faithful servant of CHRIST, yet Satan sifted him, and he fell. Yea we had thought that our Saviour only had received this strength and defence against all temptations to sin, assaults etc. And that all mortal men had been daily subject to sin, temptation, etc., that our rejoicing might be of God, and not of ourselves, and God's glory be showed and perfected through our weakness. If these vanuties of the Bissops were true, then might it indeed rightly be called a Confirmation, for then such as had that were sure and sure, there then to those should be no more use of CHRIST'S merits, sufferings, or mediation, or of God's mercy. But because all men are continually prone unto, and even enclosed and compassed about with sin, whilst they dwell in this mortal flesh, and have continual need of God's mercy, and use of CHRIST'S merits, sufferings, and mediation: Yea because we see well nigh all those whom the Bishops have thus confirmed, to be confirmed in all sin and wickedness, and even the Bishops themselves the authors of this devise (from whom all this virtue and holiness should flow fourth unto others) to be themselves the very sinks & drains of all abomination, corruption, idolatry, superstition, blasphemy, and open transgression of all God's laws; We are confident in the truth and power of our Lord IES●S CHRIST to witness against these abominable ordinances of Antichrist and against the Church of England for receiving the same, and maintaining the most impious blasphemous doctrines that ensue thereof, as is above proved:  
TO the blasphemous Collects in your Sacraments & Book you wish we were as weary in lying and slandering, as we should be to seek & find out one such. You have in remem●rance the Collects wherein the Priest by th'authority committed unto him, doth absolve the sick of all his sins. You must not forget your two Cellects said over your dead brother. The one wherein you praise God for receiving to mercy his soul, lived he or died he never so profane, blasphemous, and impenitent a wretch. The other wherein you pray for him, that you with him may have a perfect consummation & bliss both in body and soul. Now to help your memory a little further, we would desire you to consider better of that glorious Antheame you sing or say in your public Communion, wherein with Angels & archangels and all the company of heaven you laud & magnify etc.: Wherein we will not demand of you how whilst you remain in the flesh, you can have such familiar conversation with those heavenly soldiers and elect spirits of the faithful deceased, that you together with them can praise & laud God. Nether will we press you with the papistical and curious speculations in making degrees of Angels, archangels etc. But we would here know of you how many archangels you read of & find in the Scriptures, And whether you know any more heads of Angels than Christ himself. Except peradventure your Church have some especial prerogative from the Apostatical Sea, to make Archbisshops and archangels. Your Collect also in baptism of Sanctifijng the flood jordan and all other waters to the mystical washing away of sin, some say savoureth greatly of Popery, and retaineth the people in a superstitious opinion, That the water used in baptism hath holiness & some especial virtue in it ab●●e common water, especially when it is thus blessed by the Priest, and 〈◊〉 out of the hallowed font etc. But we will not press you herewith nether yet stand to examine your Collect upon your St. Michael & all Angells-Day, how you make Michael a creature, and Canonize him among the Pope's Saints, and worship him amongst & together with all Angels: This shallbe no blasphemy, no Popery in your Church Nether will we stand to unrip your popish patched Litany, Or show by what POPE, and why every part thereof was devised and added, And wherefore it is good: As for the quick & the dead, For all that travail by sea or by land, For all women labouring with child, For all sick persons and young children, all prisoners and captives, For Bishops & Curates, For lightnings and tempests, For plague, pestilence, and famine, For battle and murder, and for sudden death etc. All which things and what else that you will request at his hands, CHRIST cannot but grant you, when you so beconiure him By the mystery of his holy incarnation, by his holy nativity and circumcision, by his baptism, fasting, and temptation, by his agony and bloody sweat, by his Cross and passion, by his precious death and burial, by his glorious resurrection and ascension, and by the coming of the Holy Ghost. And sweetly you entreat him by them all severally and jointly to deliver you from the evils abovesaid, and also from fornication and all other deadly sins. In which Sofrage we will not observe that you hold some sins deadly, and others not deserving death, because you peradventure can shift it off with learning, howsoever it standeth in the Pope's book, or they that made it thought of it. Only we observe that this your holy Litany is a most rare and especial confection, sovereign good for all things at all times, but especially in the morning, and therefore it is so often enjoined to be song or said in your Church every week at their matins. Yet was there (by what adventure we know not) an unsavoury & unhappy Sofrage stolen into your Litany in King EDWARD'S time Against the tyranny of the Bishop of Rome and all his detestable enormities. Which Sofrage because it was nether so Canonical or holy, nether agreed unto the rest, & could not be song with them in tune; Or because it was over rough doctrine for sundry of their weak brethren that then loved & yet love the POPE & any thing that cometh from him, with all their heart; Or else (that which is more likely) over plain doctrine to make the people abhor all their Romish wares & marchantmen; The worthy Bishops, most vigilant Pastors & Governors of your Church, to avoid these inconveniences, of their pontifical authority dismissed it, thrust it quite out of their Litany, and utterly abrogated and razed it out of their Authentical liturgy. Wherein (now it hath been by these learned men corrected, and this perilous Sofrage thrust out) it is impossible to find either heresy or blasphemy. But can there be more horrible & execrable blasphemy then thus to conjure & exercise Christ by his nativity, circumcision, baptism, fasting, by his agony, his sweat, his cross, his death, his burial etc.: what Conjurers or Enchanters can exceed this? where have they learned thus to pray? thus to dismember & distort Christ, or thus idolatrously to apply and abuse these outward things which he did or were done unto him in the flesh? Why might they not aswell beseech him by his growing in age, his walking, fleeping, weeping etc., by his crown of thorns, the spondge, nails, spear? No marvel they fetched this gear from the POPE'S Portesse. Again, where have they learned to pray for their forefathers offences, if not of the POPE? Where have they learned to pray for all that err, for all that travail by land or water, for all that are sick, in captivity, tribulation etc., when there is a sin for which we are forbidden to pray, when there are many most ungodly and wicked persons going about and suffering for much mischief thus traveling, imprisoned & c? Pray they not for God's open enemies, for the breach of all God's laws, for the overthrow of all magistracy, public peace & order, and for the destruction both of the Church & common wealth thereby? Also where learned they to pray against lightning, tempest, plague, famine, battle etc., when they have no present need, or have no present fear or danger thereof? Is not this to trifle, to abuse God's name? Can this prayer be of faith to pray against lightning in the midst of Winter & c? Is not this to forbid God to use his own Creatures to his own will and glory? Yea to forbid him to restrain his Creatures, or to punish his enemies by dearth, plague, war? Finally where learned they to pray against sudden death, that God should not call any of this land, yea of the whole world, suddenly? Is not this to appoint God when and how to call? Hath not God reserved these secret things in his own hand only, forbidden men to be curious or inquisitive after them, and commanded them continually to watch & be ready, for in an hour that we think not, will our Master come as a thief in the night etc.:  
These are the public prayers, doctrines, worship, and administration of the Church of England, which it not only tolerateth, but with an high hand commandeth, maintaineth, enforceth upon all men. Of all these execrable wares standeth Mr. GIFFARD a marchantman, retailing them to the miserale people, being with none more or so much offended as with those who refuse and speak against this trumpery; whom how he rewardeth or refuteth, let this his blasphemous popish book show. What defence he hath made for this worship and ministration, Let the readers by this time judge, and how smoothly he hath passed by and coloured, yea swallowed up all these abominations, transferring all the blame and reproach upon the poor servants of CHRIST, that condemn this trash, and admonish him. Evil signs either of a true Minister, or true christian. None speaking by the spirit of God justifieth error or blasphemeth the truth at any time. How far he hath sought to justify these antichristian devices & popish enormities, and blasphemed us for speaking the truth, Let his book show. Yet bringeth he against us a certain Sect in their Church which condemn certain things as corruptions & such as need reformation, and therefore would know how we could abandon all th'assemblies for this Book, seeing many disallow many things therein:  
TO this he saith we make a double answer: First that using a part, they do homage to the whole. Then, that the best part of this Book is an abomination to the Lord etc. This dubblenes is of your own heart, who dissembling with God and your own conscience to avoid open shame, care not what wrong you do others, or what judgements you heap upon yourself against the day of wrath. Our answer was but one, and this. That you knew never a Minister that useth not the Book, that standeth not under this Idol. Or that had thrown it out by the power of God's word, or withdrawn the people from it with all their preaching these 29. years: But that they all administer by it, join their gospel to it, minister to that people that use it etc. That the cunningest of you that use the best and leave the rest, cannot make that best part you use other than a piece of swynes-flesh, an abomination to the Lord. And that the persuasion of your consciences could neither justify your worship, clear yourselves, or satisfy others: Especially when we see your consciences to tolerate & to submit unto the whole, to use part in respect of your homage, and to refuse part for shame of the world. This you were ashamed to inserte, because you were not able to answer. Therefore in all this they but counterfeit, and you cavil. What folly can you find in this saying, That in using part they do homage for the whole? Stand not all your Ministers bound to this Book, sworn in their canonical obedience to administer according to the order prescribed therein, and not to preach against any thing by public authority established? Stand not the Churchwardens and Sidem● bound to present the defaults, And the Archdeacon and Commissary, to censure the same? How then (seeing all your Ministers stand in this subjection unto it) would you have us think that the part they use is not in respect of their homage to the whole? Or how would you have us think that they condemn any part thereof, when they speak not against it and cast it not out by the power of the word, neither withdraw themselves, nor the people from it, but join in prayers & sacraments with them that use it? Is this to condemn it, or to condemn themselves rather in the things they do? Can you with your fleshly reason put this away? Might they not by your reason stand sworn to the Mass-book, join to such idolatrous priests & people as use it, yet if in their own conscience or secretly they dislike some faults thereof, be as clear as these Ministers you speak of are of the corruptions they condemn? There are some truths & some good things in the Mass-book also. You use no good reason to persuade us by your Schisms and divisions in your Church, unto your Church. We know that Christ is not divided, and that there is but one Spirit, one Baptism. CHRIST is not yea & nay; yea in one place, nay in an other. Though christians may through the ignorance & darkness that is in them, descent in some things, yet are they to walk by one rule, and not to teach divers doctrines. Who so teach otherwise, or causeth any dissension or offences besides the doctrine with we have learned, 
Rom. 16. 17.  is to be avoided, to be cast out. If either of these factions you speak of had been of CHRIST, 
Gal. 1. 8.  they would ye● this have proceeded according to the rule of CHRIST against the offenders, and not have remained in this contention & division:  
TO your next vehement exclamation of frenzy, In that we term the best part of your Portesse but a piece of swynes-fleshe etc., wherein you say we strike at God and blaspheme that which is most holy, because therein are sundry portions of Scripture: As the lords prayer, the ten commandments, the articles of your faith etc. We beseech you (when you shall be a little come to yourself) are not all these with your Pist●es and Gospels in the Mass-book also? yet you will hold no part of that execrable Idol, good. The Papists hang the first words of the Gospel after john about their neck for many purposes; shall we not say that this or their Agnus Dei are abominable Idols therefore? Conjurers use divers Psalms and scriptures in their magical incantations & divers Collects, with as little evil as most of yours, shall we now allow any part of their Conjurations? are they not altogether accursed? The Scriptures than we see may be abused, yet no way justify any part of the wicked action or naughty thing to which they are applied. The Scriptures are holy & good of themselves, yet when they are thus violently rend, dismembered, constrained, perverted, abused, joined to these idolatries, they no way justify any part of the worship, but make the whole more execrable. We can say then that those Scriptures which you thus profane and abuse to your idolatries' abovesaid (as your idol feasts and all your idol worship and ministration) are in their due place & true use, holy, reverend, gracious; But when they are abused, perverted, and joined to patch up this idolatry, they make the whole the more execrable. All the Scriptures then of God are holy & pure, and all the whole Mass-book, and English service-book and every part thereof are detestable Idols. All which Idol and every part thereof we can condemn, and yet preserve the sacred majesty and authority of the Scriptures. All this your festered conscience & blasphemous mouth could to your further judgement confess in our name, though Satan that speaketh in you, by and by sought to quench it, by deriding our holy sufferings. Our bands unto us are comfortable, glorious unto God, and shall rise up and be produced in judgement with this idolatrous murderous generation of your horned clergy. But now to the Scriptures be you alleged. If you were demanded where you learned to mumble over that Scripture (by you falsely called the Lords prayer) five times in your Morowe-Masse, and to use it at all assays, to to say it over the sick, over the dead, over the women in Churching, over the married etc., should not your holy Father the POPE be found the author of all this? Also if we should ask you where you read, and how you could prove that blasphemous Article of your faith That CHRIST descended into Hell, what scripture could you show or allege for it? Thus are even those things whereof you glory, turned to your shame, if so be that you could be ashamed of any thing. Yet howsoever you may harden your heart and your face against the manifest truth, by this sleight discussing of your worship, doctrines and administration, even by this little which is already said, all men may discern what kind of ministers & blind guides you be. Also any that had but once seen the Church of Rome, might easily by the ●●ea-spotts & freaks you speak of, 
Ezech. 16, 44  know her daughter of England at the first blush. For as the Mother such the Daughter is in all her limbs, features, and proportions:  
hitherto we have spoken of some odious fowl faults and errors in particular found in this their worship or liturgy: the further examination whereof and search of the rest that remain, we leave to the further diligence of others, And now touching this their service-book and liturgy in general, this we say.  
1. IN that they presume to give and enjoin their prescript words in prayer, they take the office of the Holy Ghost away, quench the spirit of the ministry, and of the whole Church, stop and keep out the graces of God, thrust their own idle devices upon the whole Church, yea upon GOD himself whether he will or no:  
2. IN that buy their liturgy they prescribe what and how much to read, at Morn to their Matins, at Even etc., teaching the Church and ministry to pray by number, stint, and proportion, it is not only popish, but most frivolous and vain, disgracing and not instructing the Church and ministery:  
3. IN that by this their liturgy they prescribe unto the Church what Scriptures publicly to read and when to read them, as these Chapters and Psalms at their matins before noon, those at after noon etc., On all the days that they have public meetings and service through the year, and so from year to year. They thereby take from the Church the holy and free use both of the Scriptures and spirit of God. They thereby conceal and shut out of the Church a great part of GOD'S holy word which they read not. As also abuse without order those scriptures they enjoin to be read:  
4. IN that they shred, rend, and dismember the Scriptures from the holy Order and natural sense of their context, to make them Epistles, Gospels, Lessons, select Psalms, to their festivals and Idol worship abovesaid, They most heinously pervert and abuse the Scriptures to the high dishonour of GOD & their own fearful judgement.  
5. IN that they bring in and command the Apochryphas writings to be publicly read in the Church: They both maintain and publicly teach the dangerous errors therein contained, to the poisoning and subverting of the faith of the Church. They thrust these devices of men into the place of GOD'S word, causing the people thereby to reverence and esteem them as the holy Oracles of GOD, of like authority, dignity, and truth, and to resort unto them to build their faith thereupon, and thereby they bring in an other foundation into the Church: besides the high injury done unto GOD thereby:  
6. Finally in that by this their liturgy they bring in, erect, and enjoin a new & strange kind of administration, as is above proved in the particulars: They make and erect a new Gospel, and so must needs also erect unto it a new ministry. For the ministry of Christ is only bound unto, and will only administer by Christ's Testament wherein they have a most perfect liturgy for the whole administration of his Church. Therefore this present liturgy and ministry of ENGLAND: are by all these reasons in general and particular found and proved at once to be counterfeit, ungodly, and Antichristian:  
His wide frivolous Parenthesis from the 17. page of his book unto the 47. touching read prayer and prescript Leitourgies, we leave to be discussed and refuted by an other, to whose writings we refer the Reader. Leaving Mr. Giffard and the whole Church of ENGLAND touching this first point of their worship, to be compassed about with the sparks, and to walk on in the light of the fire that they have kindled: Yet this to them of our hand, 
Esay. 50. 11  they shall lie in sorrow.   

THE SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION, IS THAT the profane ungodly multitudes without the exception of any one person, are with them received into, and retained in the bosom and body of their Church:  
IN Mr. Giffard his former answer unto this Transgression he then not being past all shame confessed That the most Churches in England want godly Pastor's and there all are admitted, he that admitteth them being the worst in the company. These assemblies as openly guilty of this confusion, sacrilege, & wilful profanation of the holy things of God, he would not then defend. But now upon better advise (the world being greatly changed with the reforming Priests since that time, and no hope left for that sect to prevail against the Bishops) he hath changed his copy quite, building again those Romish abominations he had before destroyed, as in the Transgression above handled appeareth. And now in this Transgression, as one greatly grieved that such large words had escaped him, he seeketh to retract them in the best manner he may, and to salve all again by saying, That the Church of England doth neither approve such admission of profane men to the Sacrament, nor yet suffer it in practise wholly, howsoever they are admitted through the negligence of the Ministers etc. Where this high sacrilege is wittingly & wilfully committed by the most of the Ministers, seen and suffered by all the Governors of the Church who have made, and do maintain such wicked Ministers, where most of the people of the land consent & join in this sin, where that lesser part of Ministers & people (he speaketh of) that do not the like have made no separation from these wicked Governors, Ministers, and People, that thus wilfully continue in this presumptuous sin & sacrilege, but join unto them in the communion of their prayers & Sacramen &c. Here we would know whether the Church of England may not justly be reproved for suffering & approving this sin. 
1 Corinth. 5  else th'Apostle faulted for reproving the whole Church of Corinth for suffering & not casting out th'incestuous person, although no doubt there were in the Church of Corinth that utterly disliked & condemned the offence. That all the Governors of your Church thus approve & maintain these wicked Ministers whom they have made, is manifest, in that they do not censure them for their heinous offences. That these Ministers commit this sacrilege, yourself hath in your former answer confessed, terming them ungodly, and judging them the worst of the company. Where by the way (not to hinder the matter in hand) we must advertise you that you have highly broken the rules of christian order and charity towards these your brethren & fellow Ministers, thus to publish and condemn them (and that to such as you hold heretics and schismatics from your Church) before your Church had censured them, or you for the Churches wilful default had forsaken either the Church or them. If they be to be esteemed the true Ministers of CHRIST (which office they profess to bear in your Church) then great is your sin thus disorderly to blaspheme, judge, and publish them. If they be not to be esteemed the true Ministers of CHRIST, them as great is your sin in joining unto them in communion of prayers and Sacraments etc., and in not separating from them and from that Church which thus presumptuously doth make, impose, and maintain such an antichristian ungodly ministery. Thus your disorderly and unchristian behaviour towards your brethren, yea the Ministers of your Church, (whereof yourself by profession standeth as yet a Minister and member) might be greatly aggravate and more justly charged with those faults you lay upon us of accusing, condemning whole assemblies of Christ, of rending and tearing up the tender plants in most desperate and savage manner. And all this before the Church of England hath censured these Ministers and assemblies. If we would be so frivolous, we could thoroughly wound you with your own weapons: But we remit you to the judgement and vengeance of the Lord for all your blasphemy and cursed speaking: still witnessing against the sins of your Church, proving if God at any time will give you repentance.  
FVrder in your former answer you affirmed, that you knew many Congregations in England where the Pastor repelled th'unworthy from the Sacraments etc. We replied, That even in those special Congregations all the profane and their seed were at the first received, as in all your other Congregations. And that this Suspension of the Pastor whereby he repelled, was popish and Antichristian, even the instrument of that idol shepherd, rebated, without edge or point, of no value, or power etc., and therefore this could be no separation, seeing the suspended still remained of and in your Church. That all without exception were received in these Congregations we proved, because all without exception of any were baptised. That none were or could be there put out we proved, because the Parson and his whole flock, or all these special Pastors or flocks together, have not that power which our Lord JESUS CHRIST hath given unto his Church unto the worlds end, to cast out the wicked by excommunication; and the other Congregations by his own confession did not cast them out. All this notwithstanding, Mr. Giffard (before he hath either proved the orderly gathering & communion of these Congregations at the restoring from apostasy, or that they now had the power of Christ amongst them to excommunicate the wicked) will needs by this idol popish Suspension justify these Congregations, and convince us of fall accusation: And thus every where he administereth weapons unto us to wound & beat himself with his own words, 
Prou. 14. ●.  according to the proverb in the mouth of the fool the staff of pride.  
But at length to reconcile himself again with those most part of Congregations & Ministers which he before condemned, he hath changed, perverted and subtly sullected our reason which we brought against those special assemblies which he endenoured to justify, and turned it against the whole Church of England, thus.  
Where all are received in by Baptism, and no power to cast forth any by excommunication, there all the profane multitudes are without exception of any one person received into & retained in the bosom & body of the Church:  
But in the Church of ENGLAND all are received in by baptism, and there is no power to ●ast forth any by excommunication:  
Therefore in the Church of ENGLAND all the profane multitudes without the exception of any one person are received into and retained in the bosom and body of the Church:  
THus after he hath manifestly falsified our words and changed our whole reason, framing it in his own conceit as he might best deal withal, he than proceedeth with all might & main to refute this Argument, and to convince us. Which being done, he followeth the chase so whotely, spending & opening his mouth freely into all manner blasphemy, as he driveth us into sundry heresies etc. But now if we might be so bold to awaken the man out of his choleric dream, and to call him back again to our former reason after all this conflict, pursuit, and triumph, he shallbe found to have skirmished all this while but with his own shadow, and never to have comen near our Argument, and so all his reproaches and heresies must be fain to return back again into his own heart, where they were forged and whence they proceeded. Our former Argument being reduced into form, was to this effect. Into what Congregations all are received as members, and the said Congregations have not the power of our Lord JESUS CHRIST to cast out any by excommunication, there all the profane multitudes without th'exception of any one person, are received into & retained in the bosom and body of that Church, or of those Churches. But in those special Congregations he spoke of, where the Pastor doth repel from the Sacrament, all are received as members, and the Parson & whole parish, Or all those Pastors and their flocks have not the power of our Lord JESUS CHRIST to cast forth any by excommunication. Therefore even in those special parishes where the Priest by their service-book repelleth from their Sacrament, are all the profane multitudes without th'exception of any one person received into & retained in the bosom & body etc. Here Mr. GIFFARD finding the Mayor or first Proposition irrefragable, The Minor thus proved unto him, because all in these parishes are baptised, and the Parson's suspension is not CHRIST'S excommunication, hath sought to escape by changing & falsifijng our reason, which otherwise he was never able to answer, He hath quite changed it by putting in a new Minor Proposition. Namely, for these peculiar Congregations whereof he made instance, he hath put the whole Church of England as they stand one body altogether. And is now driven to mingle these his select Congregations with the other Most part of Churches & Ministers whom erewhile he condemned & granted guilty of this transgression, and also to pray in aid & appeal unto the popish excommunication of that antichristian Hierarchy of their Church Governors. And this by further falsifijng our words in both his propositions; vizt. Where we said have not CHRIST'S power to cast forth any by excommunication, he saith have no power to cast forth any by excommunication. We never doubted but the Church of England, as also her mother of ROME hath a false kind of excommunication exercised in the power of the Dragon & of the Beast; but we still deny that they have that true Excommunication which is exercised in the name & power of CHRIST, which only belongeth to the Church of CHRIST. Thus if the man had taken his work before him, and proved as he had gone, happily his triumphant conclusions would not so sast have followed; Then should he have had less to fear, and more to rejoice of his doings, whereas now his reckoning & judgement are yet behind. But if Mr. GIFFARD would vouchsalf to take his adversaries into the field with him before the fight, and give them leave to bring and use their own weapons, than (seeing he will needs have the question now general of the whole Church of England, and our argument after a scholastical manner) let it be thus touching this Second Transgression:  
Where all the profane and ungodly are received into and retained in the Church as members thereof, there cannot be said the true established Church of CHRIST.  
But in the Church of ENGLAND all the profane multitudes & ungodly of the land were received into & are retained in their Church as members thereof.  
Therefore the Church of ENGLAND in this estate cannot be said the true established Church of CHRIST.  
THe first Proposition is confirmed through the whole Bible from the beginning to the end; 
Exod. 2. 5. 6.  The Church of God having always consisted of a select peculiar people, 
1 Pet. 2. 9  called & separated from the profane of the world; 
joh. 15. 19  None entering into CHRIST'S Church but by a voluntary profession of their true faith and obedience; 
Act 2. 〈◊〉  Or standing longer there, than they keep the same faith & obedience. The second Proposition may be proved by way of argument thus. Where all were received into the Church without any separation at the first gathering thereof, and they have not the power of CHRIST to cast forth any by orderly excommunication, there all the profane multitudes may justly be said to be received into and retained in the bosom and body of the Church. But in the Church of England all the profane multitudes of the land were together without difference or separation received into the Church, neither have they the power of CHRIST orderly to cast forth any by true excommunication. Therefore all the profane multitudes are truly said to be received into, and to be retained in the bosom and body of their Church. This author his two exceptions to the first Proposition of the repelled from the Sacraments, and such is departed of themselves, no way diminish the truth, or hinder the course thereof. For the suspended, they still remain members of their Church. For such Papists, Heretics, & Schismatics as departed of themselves, though they ought also to be cast out by orderly Excommunication, yet are they not nor can be in this their Church so cast out, how infectious and wicked soever they be, because they have not the power and excommunication of CHRIST amongst them. So that now all the controversy will be about the second Proposition, whether the Church of England have received in all the profane, & whether it have the power of our Lord JESUS CHRIST to cast forth any by true excommunication. Thus far forth it is manifest & cannot be denied, That the whole land, even all the Queen's subjects at the beginning of over Queen ELISABETHES' reign, were all at one instant received as members into this Church, this Ministry, Worship, Sacraments, Ordinance etc. set over them indifferently. Since, all their seed without exception of any, whether Papist, Heretic, Atheist, Witch, conjuror etc., are baptised in this their Church: What then should let us to affirm and conclude, That all the profane of the land are received into the body of bosom of this Church, if so be that there then were at the beginning of her majesties reign, or now are, any profane in the land? Wherefore he must either maintain that there have not been since this our Queen's reign, and now presently are not any profane & open ungodly in the land; Or else confess his Church guilty of this Transgression, for receiving in all the wicked & profane into their Church. Neither will all the devils sophistry, his ra●ling, accusing, blaspheming of Christ's faithful servants & witnesses of heresy, intrusion into God's judgement seat, savage and desperate rending up the Lords tender plants, yea of whole christian assemblies help the matter, excuse him, or charged us.  
We hold all such profane, as either are not yet come to the true faith & obedience of Christ by outward profession, or are departed from the true faith and obedience of CHRIST, remaining obstinate and hardened in transgression or error. And this second sort although the Church should neglect or refuse, to cast them out by excommunication. We hold, that only such as voluntarily make a true profession of faith, and vow of their obedience, 
Math. 3. 6.  and as in the same faith & obedience seek the communion and fellowship of the faithful, 
Acts. 2. 41.  are to be received as members into the Church: And that only the children of such by the one Parent are to be baptised. 
1 Cor. 7. 14.  We hold further, that howsoever the dearest children of God do & may fall, yet are they still venued by repentance: And that all such as continue obstinate in their sin after due admonition, are not by us to be esteemed faithful, but to be held wicked & profane, although the Church should refuse to cast them out. This we hope in any christian or sober judgement will not be found, To call all such profane and to condemn them as infidels which profess the faith truly, and continued outwardly obedient, although in some weakness and infirmities, as this malicious accuser falsely sclandereth us. Nether shall we be found to intrude into God's judgement seat, to rend and tear up the weak plants in desperate and savage manner, whilst we affirm those routs and multitudes of Atheists; Papists, Idolatros, 
1 Cor. 6. 9 10. 11.  heretics, blasphemers, extortioners, wronge-doers, covetous, proud, vain, and light persons, gluttons, drunkards, adulterers, bawds, whores, and whoremasters, theives, murderers, and other such like flagitious ungodly persons, which were received into and are retained in their Church as members, to be esteemed amongst the wicked and profane of the world, and not as the right plants & true members of the Church in this estate. We are taught to know and judge the tree by the fruits, and easily can discern these Vines of SODOM from the lords Vines, these stinking weeds, these nettles, thorns, thistles, from the Lords pleasant plants, the sweet incense trees, 
Cant. 4. 13. 14.  olive, pome-granate, fig trees of the lords walled Orchard of his Church: 
Elay. 60. 21.  We cannot mistake the mountains of these Leopards and Wolves, for CHRIST'S sheepfold; the cages of these unclean and hateful birds, 
Cant. 4. 8.  for the holy assembly of Saints: Neither may we now flatter and dissemble contrary to the evident truth of God, 
Revel. 18. 2.  and our own conscience, to justify and bless the wicked, to call the churl liberal, to say to the wicked they are righteous, 
Esay. 32. 5.  and to them that despise the Lord they shall have peace, as this wretched man doth for his belly. 
Prou. 24. 24.  Who being in league with his Ordinary, and in covenant with Hell, is not ashamed to stand a Priest of all these abominations to the most abominable, 
Ezech. 13. 18.  seeking to plead for and justify both; 
jerem. 18.  terming these routs of all sorts of wicked ungodly persons, the Saints; the assemblies of them, the Church and sheepfold of CHRIST; calling the most hateful and horrible sins they daily commit, but their infirmities and weakness; the most execrable blasphemies and idolatries, but the spots & bleamishes of their Church. What then shall we judge of their sinners and sins if these be their Saints, infirmities, bleamishes? But there are none so bad as we that speak against these holy assemblies of these Saints, and that for these their bleamishes, infirmities etc. All that fear God may tremble at our intolerable wickedness (Mr. Giffard saith) That tear up these weak plants, yea whole assemblies that unfeignedly sorrow and mourn for their sins, and study to please God. We are they that take upon us to pluck up all the darnel, though we be commanded the contrary, lest we pluck up the wheat Math. 13. What spirit leadeth us, and possesseth him and his Church, as also how they sorrow and mourn for their sins, Let th'occasions of these controversies betwixt us, their tyranny, our sufferings, and this his present writing declare. We blame, and witness against many most heinous & horrible sins. So far are they from acknowledging the same, that they will not be confessed amongst the bleamishes of his Church. Yea instead of repentance they persecute, he blasphemeth, and in every sentence of his book casteth at us in his fury these his firebrands, poisoned arrows, and deadly darts, wherewith his whole Book is seasoned instead of better grace, and all for showing & admonishing them of their sins. Unto this place. Mat. 13. which he bringeth against us for plucking up the tars, he must acknowledge these his weak plants even all the profane multitudes & deluge of people, to be those tars, or else he cannot use it against us, or blame us for plucking them up. This if he confess, then can they not be held in this estate the children of the kingdom, that tender wheat, that blossomed and made fruit. Then hath he granted us as much concerning this point as we require, yea and judged them as far as we judge; which is not concerning their future, but their present estate. Their election or reprobation we leave to that great householder the maker and judge of all, containing ourselves within the rules of his revealed word, whose judgements we cannot lighten, or pronounce the wicked innocent; against whose judgements who so spurn or resist, but stumble at that rock which will grind them to powder. If Mr. Giffard understand the field in this place to be the Church, he chooseth rather to insist in the error of others, then in th'exposition of our Saviour himself; who saith, verse. 38. That the field is the world, the good seed are those Children of the kingdom, but the tars are the Children of the wicked one If it should be understood of the planted Church, than were all the rules, ordinances, censures, and government of the Church utterly abolished. Then might all be received in, and none at any time for any offence cast out of the Church etc. Then also could not the civil Magistrate put any offendor to death, for that were to root out the tars. Neither can these tars be understood of those hypocrites whose sins appear not; for than could not the Disciples discern, judge, and seek to root them up. Or being so understood, be compared to those multitudes of profane, whose heinous sins are manifest. Let the tars than be the children of the wicked one, and not the Saints of CHRIST: Let the tars be in the world, and not in the Church, seeing our Saviour himself so pronounceth them, and instructeth his disciples so to think of them. Yet let not his disciples in any inordinate zeal seek to root them up, seeing they have nothing to do to judge them that are without. 
1. Cor. 5. 12. 13.  But let them rather by all means seek their engrafting, in instructing them inal gentleness, if so be that God at any time will give them repentance to the acknowledging of 
2. Tim. 2▪ 25  the truth, that they also may be partakers of the like mercy and grace with them.  
WHat then hath Mr. Giffard gained by this place? That the open profane & such as never made true voluntary profession of their own faith (other than that prescript verbal confession which is enjoined to them all in their service-book, which a child of 4. years old may say after the Priest as well as they) may be received into the Church. Or that all sorts of open wicked gross impenitent offenders may be retained in the Church as members. This he must prove, or else all that he saith is nothing to the purpose, seeing we charged their Church as heinously guilty of, and wilfully obstinate in these transgressions. But instead of proving, he slily seeketh to change the question, by turning it from these open profane and wicked, to Hypocrites & wicked persons which remain in the Church, whose children he saith aught to be baptised. Wherein, besides ●hat he beggeth the question, assuming in a strong imagination that which he shall never be able to prove, That these parish assemblies are the true planted and established Churches of CHRIST, and these ungodly multitudes true members thereof, he further so doubleth and windeth betwixt these two starting holes, the hypocrites, and the profane, as one cannot know whereto find him, or whereof he affirmeth. It being granted that the children of hypocrites ought to be baptised, he will ●hervpon conclude, that the children of the profane also. Which if it be denied, than he will make no conscience to give out, that we deny baptism to the seed of Hypocrites in the Church. Thus standing upon no ground, he flitcheth & fleeteth up and down, seeking in an evil conscience to shift off the truth wherewith he is pressed. First presupposing that all these multitudes of profane & wicked are within the Church: Then endeavouring to prove that all the children of such profane and wicked as he termeth within the Church and to profess Christ, aught to be baptised. Wherein, before we come to the consideration of his reasons, we must note unto the reader in his Proposition express contrariety, error, and sacrilege: Contrariety, in that he with the same mouth in the same sentence pronounceth them as profane & wicked, and also as faithful and members of the Church, such to whom the Covenante and the seals thereof belong. Error, in that he thus judgeth and blasphemeth them, if they be faithful & members of the Church: As on the contrary if they be profane & wicked, to justify their profession whilst they are obstinate in such sins; Yea further to harden them therein, to give the seal of the covenant unto their children in respect of their profession, which cannot be done without open & wilful sacrilege; for if they be to be judged profane & wicked, then are their children also (until they make profession of their own faith) to be held of us as profane; the devised written profession of their Church cannot sanctify or justify either the one or the other unto us. Moreover, the Church cannot deny to receive those Parents or that Parent unto the communion of the Supper, whose infants they baptise in that estate. And thus by Mr. Giffards' divinity may the body and blood of Christ be prostitute to the open profane and wicked, whom he thus proveth within the Covenant.  
THe interest of God's Covenant (saith he) doth not depend upon their next Parents, but upon the ancient christians their forefathers. For when God saith, I willbe thy God and the God of thy seed, the promise is made to a thousand generations. Exod. 20▪ So Levi paid tithes unto Melchisedec because he was the loins of Abraham: Yea all the whole nation of the jews were in the loins of Abraham, and therefore holy & within the Covenant: For if the first fruits be holy, so is the lump; if the root be holy, so are the boughs Rom. 11. Yea though many of them were wicked, idolatros, reprobates, yet even in the worst times were they Circumcised, and it was not disallowed. But the Lord caleth the children of those wicked idolaters his children. Thou hast taken thy Sons & thy Daughters which thou broughtest fourth unto me▪ and sacrificed unto them to be consumed: thou hast slain my Sons and given them, by causing them to pass through unto them. Ezech. 16. 21.  
BEhold into how many errors, mischiefs, and blasphemies they fall, which in this manner spurn & strive against the truth, every word becoming a snare unto them to hold & draw them unto their greater judgements. If th'interest in God's Covenant (as being the seed of the faithful unto the sight of the Church) depend not upon the faith of the next parents, but upon the ancient christians their forefathers within a thow●and generations etc., Then ought all to be received, and none to be kept or cast out of the Church; Then is the whole world within the Covenant, of the Church, holy▪ all being sprung within far less than a thousand generations of many faithful, and lineally come from the Patriarch Noah, Then ought by this rule the Israelites under the law to have circumcised all their captive Can●●nites and heathen that came into their power, Then ought the Church now also to baptise all the seed even of the most wicked and ungodly, whether Turcks, Papists, idolaters etc., because they are all sprung of faithful Parents within less than a thousand generations. But because we read in the Scriptures that God's Covenant only belongeth unto the faithful, and the seals of his covenant are now only committed to his true established Church; Seinglawes & rules are given by God unto the Church, to whom, and how to administer the said seals; Seing none can enter into this Church, but by this true outward profession of faith & obedience, neither any remain longer there, them they keep the said faith and obedience outwardly; Seing baptism only belongeth and is given to the members of this Church and unto their ●eede, and can to none other be given without heinous sin and sacrilege, We doubt not to pronounce and reject these doctrines of this false Prophet, as most blasphemous and devilish. As ●ending to the open breach of all God's laws and ordinances, to th'utter abolishing of the truth and fear of God's judgements, to the taking away of all faith and godliness out of the earth, to the bringing in of all Atheism & confusion, to the prostituting and profaning of the holy things of God. And therefore all true Christians by the commandment of God are to avoid and hold accursed the author and bringer of such doctrines, 
Gal. 1. 8  and so much the rather, 
● Ihon. 10  in that he so wretchedly and boldly falsifieth, dismembreth, perverteth, and abuseth the holy Scriptures thereunto.  
AS to prove that the Covenant dependeth not upon the outward faith of the parents, but upon the faith of their godly ancestors, he voucheth. Exod. 20. I will be thy God and the God of thy Seed, the promise is made (saith he) to a thousand generations: But he wittingly suppresseth the next words of the sentence [of them that lo●e me and Keep my Commandments] which show to whom this Covenant is made and belongeth, and the condition on our part. As the former part of this sentence verse. 5. showeth how we may forfeit this Covenant, Namely, by breaking and contemning the law of God, in whose love we cannot remain, except we remain in his obedience. john. 14. 21. & 15. 10. So that the Lord most plainly in this Exod, 20. 5. & 6. verses declareth who & whose seed are within his Covenant of love and protection. Namely, the faithful & their offspring to the thousand generation, so long as they continue in his faith and obedience. But if they break his law and will not be reduced to his obedience, then are they and their children cast out of his favour, then as a jealous God will he visit their sins upon their children upon the thirds & fourthes etc. How boldly & presumptuously then hath this wicked man without all conscience & fear, falsified this Scripture in suppressing what parts thereof he list, dismembering & rending what he allegeth from the natural context, perverting and abusing these words [to a thousand generations] quite against th'express sense of God himself, receiving the children of the open wicked and ungodly (which the Lord rejecteth together with their rebellious Parents) into the outward Covenant of his grace, and delivering the seal thereof unto them by virtue of this place, because some of their forefathers have been faithful, and the Covenant is made to a thousand generations. As though the Lord plighteth his love to us, and requireth not again our faith and obedience unto him in the same Covenant. Let Mr. Giffard show one place of Scripture through the whole Bible where the Lord his Covenant is made unto us without this condition, and then peradventure he may clear himself & his Ordinary for the publishing of this wicked and devilish heresy, so directly contrary to the whole Scriptures in more than a thousand places. For to what end should the Lord have given unto us his holy word, if he had not required of us our hearty obedience unto the same? But because the Lord is never found contrary unto himself, neither any contradiction in his word, we may by the direct warrant hereof hold Mr. GIFFARD and his Ordinary most heinous falsifiers and corrupters of the whole law and word of God, most blasphemous and pernicious false Prophets, That receive into the covenant and justify all sorts of profane, wicked, and ungodly persons: And so open the doors to all Atheism and impiety. His starting hole and subterfuge of undiscovered hypocrites will not hide or help him herein, seeing we complain That the open profane and all sorts of the most wicked and their seed without exception of any are received amongct them as members of their Church, And seeing he endeavoureth to approve the same by many other Scriptures.  
ALL Israel (saith he) was in the loins of Abraham, all in the Covenant, and holy with him as the boughs with the root, all within the Church by outward profession, and esteemed members thereof, because the seeds of Abraham. Yea though multitudes of them were infidels and idolaters, yet even of them sprang the right holy seed, And therefore, as also because of their outward profession, were all of them held members, all holy; And all their children (in the times when idolatry was openly maintained) were circumcised, and that was not disallowed etc.  
WE doubt not, speaking of all Israel in general without any particular reference unto this or that time or estate, but that Nation was a peculiar, chosen, 
Exod. 19 5. 6.  adopted people above all other Nations unto the Lord, 
Rom. 9  that they might be an holy Nation unto him, a kingdom of Priests etc., of whom the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service, and the promises. We acknowledge also that the Israel of God according to th'election of grace are all of them holy with their forefathers Abraham, Isaac, and jacob, as the lump with the first fruits, the boughs with the root. But yet we acknowledge not all to be that Israel which are of Israel, neither all the children of the Covenant which are the seed of Abraham. 
john. 8.  But they are the children of Abraham and of his covenant which do the works, 
Rom. 4.  and remain in the faith of Abraham. 
Rom. 2. 25.  Otherwise their circumcision is made unto them uncircumcision; neither do their literal titles and prerogatives any whit avail them, but rather aggravate their judgements whilst they are found transgressers of the law. The Covenant doubtless was not otherwise made unto them than it was unto their Father Abraham. To whom it was said be thou upright and walk straight before me. 
Genes. 17.  How often doth the Lord at the giving of his law, and the entering covenant with the whole people stipulate and require their faith and obedience, when he promiseth to be their God and the God of their seed? How oft doth he pronounce the Covenant broken and disannulled on their parts, when they transgress & reject his law, and denownce of his part all plagues and fearful judgements for the same euerie where through the law & Prophets, but most plentifully in the book of deuteronomy? 
Deut. 29. 19  Protesting plagues against such as when they hear the words of this oath, bless themselves in their heart saying they shall have peace, although they walk according to the stobbornnes of their own heart. How then should these frivolous reasons of this ignorant caviller stand? That because the Lord speaking generally and indefinitely of his first choosing and receiving that people, sometimes caleth all Israel his people, a holy Nation etc., Therefore all Israel in all times and estates of that kingdom should always be his true visible Church, within the Covenant etc. This we see were directly contrary to the whole law and prophets. Should it follow that because the Lord reserveth in and draweth out of the loins of the wicked his right holy seed, that therefore the Parents are within God his Covenant? Thus might the Turckes, jews, and most wicked of the world be justified, because the Lord his secret election is not restrained towards them. Should it follow that because all the Israelites were always circumcised, that therefore they were within the Covenant, or were not blamed, or did not amiss in profaning God his holy ordinance? So might the Israelites, Ammonites, Edomites, and Moabites be said within the Covenant, because their ancestors and they were circumcised. We see outward circumcision availeth not, when the condition of the covenant is broken. And how could this bold blind guide say, that it was not disallowed when all their children were circumcised in the times when idolatry was generally and publicly maineteyned? Are such idolaters within the Covenant of the Lord, or doth the seal of his covenant belong to them? Are not the children of the wicked excepted and rejected out of the covenant by the commandment of God Exod. 20. 5. as the seed of the faithful are received into the covenant? Then must it needs be high presumption & sacrilege thus to abuse circumcision, and therefore it could not be allowed in those times to such persons. Moreover, when these wicked are forbidden so much as to name the name of God, 
Psal. ●0. 16.  to bring any offerings or worship unto him, 
Esay. 1. and 66.  or to meddle with any of his holy Ordinances, are they not forbidden circumcision?  
Should we also collect and conclude, because the Lord Ezech. 16. 20. 21. caleth the children of those idolaters whom they offered to M●lech, his Sons and Daughters, That therefore the kingdoms of Israel & juda whilst they remained in these horrible sins, were outwardly in that estate the true Church of God? Or is this great Prophet so inconversant in the Scripture, that he yet understandeth not this usual kind of phrase and manner of speaking, where the Lord in sundry places caleth them his sons, daughters, and people in respect of their first caling, whom in regard of their present evil life he pronownceth not to be his. As deuteronomy. 32. the 19 and 5 verse. Micha. 2. 7. 8, 9 Amos. 8. 2. and no where more plainly then in this Ezech. 16. as were easy to demonstrate by the least touching of the argument of that chapter; The Lord there setting before their face by sundry Allegories their estate, even from their original unto that present time. Of what parents the● by nature sprang, in what plight he found them at the first, all imbrued in their mothers and their own guiltiness, their navel uncut, unwashed, unsalted, unswaded, cast out into the open field, no hand to help, no eye to pity, unable to help themselves until the Lord showed mercy, took them up, cherished, nourished them, entered into covenant and swore unto them, so that they grew up into riper years, than he spread his garment over them, washed and anointed them, clothed them with broidered garments, fine linen, silck, scarlet, adorned them with gold, silver, precious stones▪ fed them with meal, wine, oil, set a beautiful Crown upon their head, and married them openly unto himself, and spread their name amongst the heathen. But now Israel waxed proud of her own beauty, played the Harlot, built high places, and decked them with her garments, and played the whore upon them, made images of th'instruments and of the lords gold and silver which he gave them, and committed fornication with them, offering the lords meat, flower, oil unto them as a sweet savour, yea sacrificed their own Sons and Daughters unto them, committed fornication with the Egyptians, Assyrians, Chaldeans, and that in most shameful sort, and vilely hiring them with the lords gold & silver of his Temple etc. Wherefore the Lord doth pronounce and repudiate them as an Harlot, as a most filthy, poisonous, monstrous whore, 
Genes. 9  and denownceth judgements against them as against murderers and adulterers, 
Deut. 22. 22  and these judgements to be executed by these their lovers, who should break down their Cities and high places, and slay them with the sword, the Lord not only comparing them, but shewing them to exceed SODOM and SAMARIA in sin & iniquity etc. Who then but this perverse fellow could thus stumble and cavil at these words My Sons and my Daughters, and wrist them not only against the whole scope of that Chapter, but even of the whole Bible? Whether these words be to be understood of all their seed which were at the first together with them received into the lords Covenant▪ or of their first borne only, which by a peculiar right & law were reserved unto the Lord Exod. 13. 2. (which first borne they are blamed in the 20. Chapter of the same prophecy verse. the 26. and 31. to have offered unto Idols) may be some question. Yet with no sense or truth they may be understood as of the Lords elect and adopted children, or pronounced that holy seed, being the children of such rebellious obstinate idolaters. How often doth the Lord call them by his Prophet's rebellious children, an adulterous Nation? should we therefore conclude, that they were the lords children, the lords spouse? Or rather pronounce from the just laws of the Lord, That rebellious children, and th'adulterous wife ought to be produced, repudiat, and put to death. Deut. 21. 18. Leu. 20. 10. Further we read the Lord to denownce extraordinary & speedy judgements not only against them that offer of their ●eede unto Moleth, but against that whole Nation that dissembleth or suffereth that sin amongst them. levit. 20. How then could this ignorant Priest collect & conclude from these words My Sons & my Daughters (which were spoken but to convince & aggravate their sin and judgement, to stimulate and wound their conscience) that these children of these idolaters, thus offered to Molech, were of us to be judged the holy seed of the Lord within his covenant, Or these idolaters in this estate to be judged the true Church of God? Can they together serve God and Idols? together break and keep the Covenant? If Mr. GIFFARD can by his learning prove this true, then peradventure we shall believe him that the kingdom of Israel in their schism & defection having erected new Temples, Priests, Altars, Laws, were defiled with all the abominations of the heathen, despised & persequ●ted the Lord his Prophets which were sent to them etc., were to be held of us the true Church of God. Then peradventure he might persuade us that the kingdom of Iud● in this apostasy, having as this Prophet Ezech. showeth in his 8. Chapter brought all manner abomination into the Temple & defiled the whole land as we read in the rest of his prophecy, was also by us to be esteemed the true Church of God. Is it a good reason for Mr. Giffard to say, because the whole land was so thoroughly defiled, that it could neither by ecclesiastical censures, nor by civil judgements be purged, that therefore it remained still the Church in that estate? Is not this to say they had not thus sinned, because their sins were incuriable? That they had not committed adultery, murder, idolatry, because they were not presently stoned, slain by the sword, burned? But howsoever they & their false Prophets blessed themselves in these sins boasting of vain titles of The Temple and People of the Lord &c. 
jer. 9 13. 14. 15.  yet the Lord for those sins did in his due times execute these judgements upon the whole Land; 
jer. 7. 4.  and in the mean time his law & Prophets spoke plainly, 
jer. 28. 8. 9  That these judgements were due unto them in this estate. And as well might this false Prophet justify the jews now to be the true Church of God in this time of their Apostasy (whereof he speaketh) because the Lord now amongst and in the loins of these wicked ones reserveth to himself an holy seed, a remnant. It will not help him to say That the vyrie-yarde was not then utterly take from the jews, as it is now. For though the lords time to abolish that material jerusalem that he might bring in & erect the Spiritual, was not as then accomplished, Though the Lord in his wisdom, mercy, and patience, and for causes known to himself, do oft defer his judgements; yet may not we thereby flatter ourselves, or justify our estate whilst we remain under the condemnation of his written law, and in open wilful breach of his Covenant. Yea howsoever the Lord now hath utterly broken off the jews for their sins & infidelity, 
Rom. 11.  that the Gentiles might be gathered and grafted in by faith, Yet is the Lord in his greatest wrath always mindful of his mercy, and hath set a time when to call & ingraff again the jews, that all Israel might be saved, and brought into one sheepfold, as it is written. But in the mean time it is no reason to say, That because the Lord even in the worst times always reserveth a remnant in his mercy, Therefore these wicked people in those evil times are his visible Church. Or because the Lord in the Loins of the most wicked hath a holy seed according to his secret election, That therefore these wicked parents are in the visible Church, or their offspring under the outward covenant. Yet are these Mr. Giffards' best Arguments to prove Israel in their open schism & idolatry, and juda in their open Apostasy and idolatry to be the true outward Church, whereunto the Seals of the outward covenant belonged and were given even to the seed of the greatest Idolater. Yea the schism, apostasy, idolatry, profanation of the holy things of God amongst these jews & Israelites, are the best and only grounds he hath, or bringeth to approve & justify the corrupt estate of the Church of ENGLAND, and that the seed of their profane idolaters ought to be baptised:  
Save that at length he hath found out a marvelous knot in a rush, and of the same made such a share for his Br●wnistes, as they must needs either confess the baptism of their Church to be a sign of the covenant, And so they all from their ancestors and their whole Church are within the covenant, Or else if they deny it, fall into the heresy of the Catabaptistes, and make themselves also without the covenant, or else to have a covenant without seals. But now if he will give us leave to unlose this knot, we must desire him to learn to put a difference betwixt false Sacraments and true Sacraments, and again betwixt false Sacraments and no Sacraments. The false Church hath her hid bread and stolen waters her false Sacraments. 
Prou. 9  The Israelites in their schism, and the jews in their apostasy still had and used Circumcision. This Circumcision was no true Sacrament unto them, neither sealed the lords covenant unto them in that estate. Yet was this circumcision true circumcision concerning the outward cutting, and was upon their repentance and return neither defaced nor reiterate, but they were restored again to the Temple and received to the Passover, 
2 Cr●●. 30  As we read in Ezechias and josiahs' times, as also after the return out of Babylon. In like manner in this general apostasy and defection from the Gospel (so much foretold in CHRIST'S Testament) the baptism continued and used in these Apostatical and false Churches cannot in this estate thus administered etc. be said a true Sacrament, or seal of God's covenant unto them: Yet concerning the outward washing it is true baptism, and upon their repentance and restoring to the Church the outward action need not & ought not to be again repeated after th'abuse thereof in the false Church is purged away by true repentance. Yet justify we not hereby any thing done in the false Church, but call all men by all means from the same, willing their whole worship to be repent of & left, and forbidding all men upon incurring the Lords heavy indignation to offer & bring their children unto the false Church to be baptised, exhorting them rather patiently to expect, and diligently to seek out & repair unto the true Church of CHRIST, where at the hands of Christ's true Ministers they may receive the true seals of his covenant unto their comforts. Yea assuring them, that whilst they refrain from that which they know to be evil, and with true hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, diligently seek to do the will of God as he offereth means, they & their seed are within the covenant of God, 
〈◊〉. 5,  although through the iniquity of the times they be still restrained for a season from having outward baptism, so that they neither neglect or contemn, much less abuse and profane of heavenly an ordinance.  
THus this learned Divine having (as you have heard) bestowed all his labour and long study to prove the kingdoms of Israel and of juda in their schism and apostasy to be the true Church, yet to make the matter more clea●e and the more easy for the Church of England, he will also prove her mother of Rome to be the true Church of CHRIST, Because the Brownis●es hold that this land in the time of Popery was not the true Church of CHRIST▪ and that now they are but confuse multitudes not rightly ●ntred into covenant with God. This that he may do, he holdeth it not enough to affirm with other learned Divines, That the invisible Church of GOD is in the papacy, as in all other places of the world; because God hath his elect there and in all other places: But he (to be singular) inverteth the Proposition and saith, That the Papacy with the whole apostasy, and all their abominations, and all that receive the Beasts mark and worship his image, are in the Church, because Antichrist doth sit in the Temple of God. Thus whilst he without all understanding or fear (after his accustomed presumption) perverteth and wresteth the Scriptures from their holy sense according to his own lust, no marvel though GOD give him up into a reprobate sense, and suffer him to draw these heretical doctrines and damnable conclusions from the same, to the destruction of himself and of as many as receive his doctrines, If Antichrist may be said to sit, reign, and remain in the Church of God, 
Hebr. 1.  Then CHRIST is not made heir and Lord of all, and set as King upon Mount Zion. 
Psal. 2.  Then CHRIST is either cast out of his house, 
1. Cor. 6. 15  or made subject unto ANTICHRIST, or divideth with him. Then the Church of CHRIST may remain subject unto, and be governed by Antichrist. Then the Church of Christ may stand under & be subject unto two heads, 
Eph. 1. 21  CHRIST and Antichrist. Then CHRIST is not the only head of the Church. If antichrist's Ministers & marked servants may be brought into & set over the Church of God, 
Eph. 4.  then is not CHRIST'S Ministry which he hath instituted to his Gospel and his 
Rom. 12.  Church, 
Hebr. 12. 28  permanent unto the worlds end, but variable at the will of man. Then may the Church of God cast out Christ's Ministry, and receive Antichrists. If Antichrist's doctrines & laws may be brought, set up, & remain in the Church, 
Deut. 18.  Then Christ is not the only Prophet & Lawegiver, 
Eph. 2. 20  Then may the Church be built upon an other foundation then upon God's word. If all Antichrist's abominations, heresies, idolatries may be brought into & remain in the Church of God, Then no blasphemy, heresy, 
Esa. 57 21  apostasy or any thing that man can commit or devise, can break the covenant, 
1 Cor. 10. 20  Then may the Church of God & Idols be placed together. 
Reu. 14. 9 10.  If they that worship the Beast & his Image may be said to be in the Church of God, and their seed outwardly within the covenant, Then the most abominable and execrable may be said in this 
reve. 21. 8  estate members of Christ, 
Reu. 22. 15  washed & purged with Christ his blood, sanctified and led by his Spirit in assurance of salvation. 
Rom. 8.  For none can be said to be within the Church, but the members of the Church. And whomsoever we may affirm to be within the Church, those (so long as they continue in that estate) we are also to judge assuredly saved, for any thing to us revealed or known to the contrary. But if all these be most devilish heresies directly contrary to the whole truth of God, if they be most execrable blasphemies, such as christians abhor but to hear, Then let the authors and spreaders of these doctrines tremble, for fearful judgements remain them.  
HIs sly distinction or evasion rather whereby he divideth the Church of Rome into two parts, the Pope and his adherents, And the nations under the tyranny of the Pope, doth rather bewray the thick darkness of his heart (wherein he is held with chains unto judgement) and his giddy amazedness, than any way clea●e him of these heresies and blasphemies aforesaid. His first understanding of the Church of Rome is the Pope, his laws, his worship which hath been devised by himself, his adherents and all that worship him or receive his mark. These (he saith) are the Apostasy seduced to damnation, and not the Church of CHRIST, otherwise then thus, that the Pope, the Cardinals, and all that worship the Bea●t be false christians by profession, bred in the Church and continuing in it, their seed not excluded from the Covenant. What a delphic Orakle is this? What strange repugnancy & contradiction is here betwixt every word of this his clear Proposition? How can the Pope and his adherents be said to be that Apostasy seduced to damnation, not the Church of CHRIST, and yet by the same mouth in the same sentence at one and the same instant be pronounced to continue in the Church, and their seed not be excluded from the outward covenant? Can they be said to be utterly departed from the faith, from Christ, from his Church (which is meant by this word Apostasy) and yet to remain in the Church? How hangs this together? May they be pronounced seduced to damnation, and not the Church of Christ, and yet both they remain in the Church, and their seed not to be excluded from the seal of the covenant? There ought none to remain in the Church, but such as are by outward profession and obedience members of the Church. 
1 Cor. 7. 14  Neither ought the children of any be baptised in their infancy, except one of their Parents be a member of the Church. The Pope then, his Cardinals and adherents remaining in the Church, their seed thus baptised as members, seeing none else may either remain in the Church or be baptised, How may they thus be pronounced seduced to damnation and not to be the Church, seeing they are confessed to be outward members of the Church?  
THe second understanding of the Church of Rome, is, of all those companies of people over whom the tyranny of the Pope hath heretofore extended, and doth at this day: Or those things which were given by CHRIST which remain in the same; this (he saith) is not the Church of Rome but the Church of God. If by the people and tyranny he here mean such persons, as though their bodies were under the cruel hands of the Pope, his Bishops, or Prelates, yet they kept their bodies & souls undefiled with their idolatries and abominations, and free from their antichristian yoke, counterfeit Ministry, and ministration, and have on the other side faithfully kept & practised the things which are given by our Saviour CHRIST in his Testament, these people indeed can at no hand be said the Church of Rome, these are the true Church and servants of Christ, witnessing & fight through the faith of the Gospel against the Pope, the Church of Rome and all their antichristian clergy and religion. But what is this to prove the kingdom of ENGLAND, or other nations which have been and are defiled with the idolatries and abominations of the Church of Rome, in that estate to be the true Church of God, but rather the quite contrary; seeing these faithful witness against them, and have no fellowship or communion with them. The Church of Rome we read Revel. 17. to be called that great whore that sitteth upon many waters: That great Babylon the mother of whoredoms & abominations of the earth, with whom the Kings of the earth have committed fornication, and th'inhabitants of the earth have been drunk with the wine of her fornications mingled unto them in her golden cup. 
Reu. 13.  We read there, verse. 15. that the waters where the whore sitteth are people & multitudes & nations & tongues. We read also that the Beast & the false Prophet shall deceive the people of the earth, and cause them to set up & worship the image of the Beast, and to slay all that will not so do; And cause all both small and great, rich & poor, free & bond, to receive a mark in their right hands or in their foreheads; And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark of the Beast. We read further more That all that receive the Beasts mark that worship him or his image, 
Reu. 14  shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God. With what shame then can this marked Priest go about to prove the Church of Rome to be the true Church of God? Or those nations which have committed fornication with her, received her Ministry, wares, abominations, that have received the mark and erected the image of the Beast, and worshipped the Beast and his image, in this time of their popery, to be esteemed the true Church of CHRIST. His 3 stout reasons will not all prove this point. Though they held many points of true and sound doctrine, yet the many heresies they held, & those (as this man himself in an other place of his book confesseth) Fundamental, do poison and leaven the whole lump. There is no heretic that holdeth not some truth. As to their holy Sacrament of Baptism, it being delivered by a false ministry, after a false manner, with new adulterate elements of salt, oil, chreame etc., with their magical incantations & signs etc., and that to open idolaters, can no way give them christendom, as this Popish Priest supposeth. Or if this Baptism in the Popish Church be an holy Sacrament & true seal of the covenant, then would we know of Mr. GIFFARD or his learned abettors, why their other Sacrament of the Supper or Altar should not also be held in the same account? Or how the Church may be said to have one true, holy, and available Sacrament to be received, an other so blasphemous and execrable as is to be abhorred, at the same instant? Or what kind of Covenant this is that hath one true authentic seal, an other forged and adulterate annexed unto it? Further also we would know, if the baptism of the Church of ROME be a true and holy Sacrament, why they should inhibit any from fetching the same there, and how they dare schism from that Church that hath the Covenant sealed and confirmed unto them. His second reason of some in all kingdoms that hold the faith, is above showed not to justify, but to condemn the Church of ROME: But all those that had any communion with them in their worship etc. in the time of Popery, cannot in this estate be said to hold the true faith, or to be members of the Church of CHRIST. His third reason concerning the infants is yet as false & fond as the rest: For neither are the infants of these idolaters by us to be judged holy, or to receive baptism, as he himself Pag. 49. confesseth; Neither can these infants any way justify their wicked Parents, or the open idolatries etc. of the Romish Church.  
Again, although it be most true that the truth was before error and apostasy, yet hereupon it followeth not that error & apostasy are of in the truth, as this man would conclude of Antichrist; That because he is said to rise in the Church of God, and to sit in the Temple of God, Therefore the place where he now reigneth & rageth is the Church of God. But by all these rules of the word of God we find the Synagogues that Antichrist hath erected to be of the false & malignant Church, and the Church of ROME pronounced by God himself to be that great Whore. Howsoever then Antichrist might have his original and work in his 
2 Thes. 2. 7.  mystery in the visible Church, yet as soon as his wickedness broke out and was apparent, 
Revel. 9 1.  he forfeited his place & was to be cast fourth, as the Angels that sinned were precipitate out of heaven, 
Reu. 12. 10. 11. 12.  and cast headlong into Hel. Yea those Churches that neglected thus to do, and spared him, in the just judgement of God lost their happy estate, became guilty of his sin, 
Revel. 12. 4.  and partakers of his judgement, and fell away with him. So then this phrase of Antichrist his sitting in The Temple of God might be much better understood, then thus grossly to affirm thereupon that A●tichrist now sitteth in the Church of God. Whether we understand this his sitting in the Temple of God, as in regard of his original before he was revealed; Or in that he should sit where sometimes the true Churches of CHRIST had been, 
Revel. 18. 7.  which he should so destroy & waste, as there should be no shape or steps of any of them left upon the earth, as it was foretold Math. 24. 29. Revel. 6▪ 14. Or else of those counterfeight names and titles of the Temple & Church of God which the false Church should arrogate and take unto herself; Howsoever, nothing is more sure than that all these abominations cannot remain in the Church of God. And in that it is in the same verse said that Antichrist shallbe lifted up above all called God or that hath veneration, This cannot be done by any Minister in the Church, seeing every soul must be subject. Further also that he should show himself that he is God. 
Rom. 13.  If this also should be literally understood, what blasphemy will not ensue. And aswell might it from the same verse be enforced, that Antichrist is God, as that the place where he reigneth is the Temple of God:  
THus having finished his● cardinal reasons of Israel in their schism, juda in their apostasy, and this universal falling away and corruption in the time of Popery, to prove the Church of England aswell as these the true Church of God, he at length addeth a conclusion in this authentical assertion of his own. The Church of England in the time of Popery was a member of the universal Church, and had not the being of a Church of CHRIST from ROME, nor took not her beginning of being a Church by separating herself from the Romish Synagogue etc. If he here mean that the Lord had his secret ones chosen and known unto himself in England in the time of Popery which were members of the universal Church, we grant well. But what were this to approve the general estate of England in the time of Popery when they were thoroughly infected with the apostasy and idolatry of the Church of ROME, to be a visible member of the universal church? So that albeit they had not their being a Church from ROME, yet they had their not being a Church from ROME, when they were defiled with their apostasy and idolatry. Wherefore to have this conclusion pass, it had been needful that Mr. GIFFARD had approved & made evident demonstration by the Scriptures that the Church of ENGLAND was rightly gathered unto and established in that holy faith and order which CHRIST hath left unto his Church in universal and particular according to the rules and examples in his Testament: Then, that in time of Popery they fell not away from this holy faith and order: And that now they continue and faithfully walk in the same faith and order. This if he had done, than had he proved that which now he beggeth and assumeth. Then had he powerfully convinced and stopped the mouths of all Schismatics and gaynesayers for ever. But with all his learning and labour he hath not enterprised, neither ever is able to prove this by Christ's Testament. The time past & estate present of their Church of England witness the contrary unto his face, and show unto all men how dieplie it hath been and still is infected with the Romish idolatries & apostasy from the Testament of Christ and in what sort they have at this day cast forth the tyranny & yoke of Antichrist with his abominations, idolatries, heresies, false Worship, false ministery, and false government etc. He therefore in stead of approving his Church by the rules of Christ's Testament, striveth to prove it a true Church though it consist of profane multitudes never as yet rightly gathered unto, or established in the fait● and order of Christ, though it have not Christ's Ministry and Officers which he hath appointed unto the Church, but that false and antichristian Ministry which the POPE erected, used, and left, Though it be governed not by the rules of Christ's Testament, but by the POPE'S Courts, Cannons etc., and such laws as these Romish bishops do devise, Though it worship God after a Popish and most idolatrous manner, though it reject the truth of God and persecute all such as call them unto or stand for the same. And this most barbarous and devilish assertion he striveth to confirm by the schism of Israel, the apostasy of juda, and the universal defection and corruption of Popery. Unto which our final answer is, that if any of these 3. be justified and find mercy before the Lord, then hath their Church of England also occasion to rejoice. But if the Prophets every where have denownced the fearful judgements of God against them, then will not their false Prophet's untempered plasters, and lying divinations of peace, help them in that day.  
But now Mr. GIFFARD proceedeth to the second part of th'assumption which he first forged, and now refuteth in our name. Wherein he will needs make us to say (though it never entered into our thought) That their Church of England hath no power to cast forth any by excommunication: and herein he saith we speak very falsely: For the Church of England hath some power to excommunicate. We have already showed how he hath changed and falsified our reason, leaving out & altering what he list, and taking no more of it than he thought himself able to deal withal. But if he had made his answer to our words as he received them, than he should have proved that the Church of England (especially those select congregations whose Pastors used to repel the unworthy from the Sacraments) had the power of our Lord jesus Christ to cast forth by true excommunication, before he had charged us with lies or absurdities:  
FOr us we never doubted or denied that their Church of England had power to excommunicate, even that power, throne, and great authority which the Dragon gave the Beast. 
Revel. 13. 2.  We take their excommunication to be the self same which was vsualy exercised in this land in the time of Popery, done by the same Officers & Courts as the Bishop, the Archdeacon, or Commissary, In latin in manner of a writ, in the Bishop's sole name, and that not for any offence, transgression of God's law, or heresy, how pernicious, damnable, and detestable soever; but only for contumacy or contempt of their Courts: As for not appearing, or not paying such mulctes and exactions as those Birds with finger's enjoin & exact. Unto all this business is neither the parish-Priest, Questmen, Sidemen, or any of the parish called, yt nothing concerneth them. The Priest he must of force pronounce it, and the parish allow of it how unjust soever it be or disorderly done. This is the only excommunication of the Church of England, other than this they have not.  
THis Popish thunderbolt cannot be defended or mistaken for that holy reverend Excommunication given by God unto and used in the Church of CHRIST against every obstinate offender unpartially & orderly, according to the rules thereunto prescribed, the whole Church with one consent in the name & power of our Lord JESUS CHRIST giving up such a one unto SATAN for the destruction of the flesh, 
1 Cor. 5.  that the spirit might be saved in the day of the Lord; and this publicly in the open church when the whole Congregation is gathered together. Neither may such excommunicate be received again but of the whole Congregation upon his public repentance in the assembly.  
IT were needles to demonstrate the monstrous abuses of this their popish excommunication in particular, and how contrary it is in every point unto the ordinance of CHRIST, seeing this may readily be done of the reader by comparing their descriptions together: especially seeing this adversary himself dare not undertake the defence thereof. But saith, that though their excommunication doth not bind in heaven, yet it is of force to remove from the society of their assemblies: which proveth our accusation false, because we reason about this outward removing. Very good, but may this outward removing or casting out of the Church be without the power of our Lord JESUS CHRIST, or by any other power? Or are not such as are cast out by the power of CHRIST, bound in heaven? Can any other power in heaven or in hell separate any of God his children from the love of CHRIST, and cut off any of CHRIST'S members from his body? Or may the Church be subject touching these spiritual judgements and censures to any other power or voice, then unto the power and voice of CHRIST, execute or confirm any other judgements than th● indgmentes of Christ? Or may any mortal man thus presume into the very throne and office of CHRIST? Do not all the Elders in the Church of God cast down their crowns before the throne of the Lamb? 
Revel. 4. 10  Do not all the Saints execute & ratify all the judgements of God that are written? 
Psal. 149.  How then dare these Lucifers, these POPES rather than popish bishops, thus presume to bring in this popish excommunication in place of Christ's, and thereby in their own romish courts, name, and power, without due order or cause, without the consent or privity of the Congregation or any of the Congregation, to cut off and cast out of the Church at their pleasure? Or how dare these wicked priests pronounce these accursed antichristian excommunications, and expel from their public exercises, prayers, and sacraments such excommunicate? Or the parish thus receive and ratify this devilish proceeding? Is it to be thought that that man which either taketh this for Christ's or christian excommunication, knoweth what christian excommunication is? and what it is to cut off any member of Christ? Or thinketh he to hide the horrible tyranny and blasphemy of the Bishops, or his own fellow Priests perfidy and treason, in yielding his flock unto these grievous wolves, or the miserable servitude & spiritual bondage of their whole Church, that thus are held & wittingly stand under antichrist's yoke, by caling yt an outward removing? Is it not all the exommunication their Church hath? Doth it not remove from the public exercises, prayers, & Sacraments of their Church & c? And would he make us believe that this is but an outward removing? hath the Church of Christ any other or further power than outwardly to remove from their fellowship and communion? Or may their Church outwardly remove any by public censure from their prayers, sacraments etc., and yet the party excommunicate be in this estate esteemed a member of Christ, or they have any communion with him? Then, this excommunication of theirs being found a mere popish forgery, and presumptuous blasphemy, directly contrary in every point to the rules and institution of Christ, cannot be said to bind in heaven, because God ratifieth nothing there, whether it be done by man or Angel, but what he here commandeth, and we do according to the rules of his word. This then being so contrary to the word of God, cannot be ratified in heaven, and so it is apparent not to be done in the power of our Lord JESUS CHRIST, but in the power of Antichrist & Satan. Their Church therefore having none other excommunication than this, cannot be said to have the power of Christ to cast out any by true & orderly excommunication. And seeing they do exercise this popish blasphemous excommunication, which is not done in the power of Christ, we may justly conclude, that their Church doth cast forth Satan in the power of Satan, to which power their whole ministery and people stand and continue in subjection.  
ANd now this author not being able to justify the public excommunication of their Church of England, seeketh to withdraw us from the present question, by moving two new questions: And from those (after his accustomed manner) laboureth to confute us. Because the Assumption even as he himself with long study had changed, contrived, and framed it, could not yet serve his turn, His first question is this. If the Bishop with sundry other Ministers of the Gospel do duly excommunicate an obstinate wicked man, is he not excommunicate before God? We first answer, That the Bishop or the Church of England doth not excommunicate for any wickedness or crime whatsoever, be it never so heinous, though obstinacy be joined thereunto, as for Adultery, murder, witchcraft etc., but only for contempt of their Courts, for not appearing, or not paying their exactions. The we answer, that the Bishop never caleth any other Ministers to this action of excommunication. Further we answer, that this Lord Bishop is no Minister of the Gospel or Church of Christ, and therefore he hath nothing to do with th' excommunication of any member of the visible Church; Neither may or will any true Ministers of the Gospel join unto the Bishop in this business. But if they should, we say that such excommunication is not allowed before God, because it is found contrary unto his word. Yet this we say, 
〈◊〉. 9 31  that the obstinate wicked are bound and excommunicate before God, 
Esa. 57 21  whilst they continue in that estate, albeit the Church here should neglect or refuse to cast them out. 
Deut. 29. 19▪ 20. 21.  For the judgements of God do neither take effect by man, neither depend upon man, or stay of man, 
Esa. 34. 16  but the judgements decreed are accomplished, 
Rom. 1. 18  and the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all impiety and unrighteousness of men that are contentious & disobey the truth. 
Rom. 2. 8. 9   
Finally, though it were admitted (which can never be proved) that the Bishop and these Priests were true Ministers of the Gospel, yet we say, that this excommunication done by them in their private assembly or consistory (as they call it) is contrary to the rules of Christ's Testament, and unlawful. For there we find this power committed & given unto the whole Church by our Saviour Christ, who sendeth all men to tell the Church Math. 18. 17. There we find the execution and publishing of this, performed in & by the Church 1 Cor. 5. We find also the remitting & receiving in again of such excommunicate to belong & to be referred unto the whole Church 2 Cor. 2. 6. 7. 8. Further we there find the judgements of God denownced against the whole Church, and every member of that Church, where this censure of excommunicating the wicked is neglected & rejected 1 Cor. 5. 2. 6. To these if we add the peculiar interest that every member hath in the word, doctrine, and faith of Christ, 
1 Thes. 5. 14  and in all the public actions of the Church, As also the particular duties that every member oweth unto the whole Church, 
Mar. 13. 34 37.  together with the sundry charges & exhortations every where in the Scriptures given them to watch, 
Hebr. 10. 24. 25.  to admonish, to exhort, and that not only the private members, but even the greatest officers of the Church; To mark them diligently that cause divisions & offences contrary to the doctrine that they have learned, 
● Pet. 4. 10 〈◊〉.  and to avoid them. Rom. 16. 17. 2 john. 10 To take heed what and whom they hear. To hold such accursed (be they men or Angels) that preach unto them besides that they have received. Gal. 1. 9 To admonish Archippus. Col 4. 17. To withdraw themselves from every brother that walketh inordinately, and not according to the tradition they have received. 2. Thess. 3. 6. To note such as abbey not the word, and not to be commingled with them that they may be ashamed. 2 Thess. 3. 14. If their brethren sin, to rebuke them; if they repent, to forgive them; if not, to retain their sin. Luke. 17. 3. 4. And to proceed according to the rule Math. 18. 15. 16. 17. These particular duties & charges duly considered, there can be no doubt but every christian is a King● & Priest unto God to spy out, 
Reu 1. 6.  censure, & cut down sin as it ariseth, 
Psal. 149●  with that two edged sword that proceedeth out of Christ's mouth. As also that th'excommunication of any member belongeth to the whole Congregation, the whole body together, seeing all the members have like interest each in other etc., Albeit the Church thus assembled be to use the help or ministery of the most fit member for the pronowncing of this excommunication etc.  
HEre then fall to the ground those 4. false interpretations of Math. 18. 17. Tell the Church. 1. Some understanding by the Church the Pope, who they say is Christ's Vicar general and supreme head of the Church. 2. Others would understand it of the Lord archbishops grace, or of the Lord Bishops, who apart may excommunicate & absolve for the whole church. 3. Some others there are that understand by this word [Church] the company of Elders apart, from, and without the people, which company they call the Consistory, and this aught to excommunicate etc. 4. The last sort are in a quite contrary extremity, and these would have the people without the Elders to excommunicate, elect etc., and that by plurality of voices.  
THe two first sorts depend of one line, and build their pre-eminence upon the promise made to the Apostle Peter. Mat. 16. 18. 19 where the keys of the kingdom of Heaven are given him. And upon the Apostle Paul his example, who delivered Himeneus & Alexander unto Satan. 1 Ti●oth. 1. 20. They bring also the commandment of Paul unto Timo●hy, To rebuke the Elders that sin openly 1. Tim. 5. ●0. and the commandment unto Titus to reject an heretic Titus 3. 10. Touching the power of the keys, we have above in the handling of the priests absolution showed it, not to depend upon the dignity of men's persons or offices, but upon the virtue & truth of God his word: from which when Peter or the Pope himself departeth, his word not only bindeth not, but is liable unto reproof, & bound by the word: Which word is given not to Peter only, but to the whole Church that is built upon that rock and to every member thereof, and hath like power to bind or to lose in the mouth of the least, as in the mouth of the greatest: For it is impossible that the word of God should be made of none effect. As to Paul's example we suppose they can evil show any such authentic warrant for their apostolic authority over all Churches & persons, or such measure of grace as Paul had: & therefore we think they ought quietly to remain within such laws and limits in their callings as Paul hath left order. For the commandments given to Timothy & Titus, they can neither prove that they executed them in such pontifical manner as they do, or in their own names alone. The contrary appeareth in the very words of the commandments. Neither if this were so, can they show themselves to have an Evangelists office as they had.  
THe other two sorts, the one whereof giveth this power of excommunication unto the Consistory of Elders without the people, the other unto the people by plurality of voices without the Elders, fall into these errors and confusion in that they know not, or at the least do not duly consider what either the communion of Saints, or the holy order of Christ is in his Church. For if they did they would never thus unnaturally separate the members from the body, or divide the body into parts. The first sort of these interpret these words Eipe●te ecclesia. Tell the Consistory, building it upon the jews San hedrin or Sunedrion That as the jews in those times complained unto their Elders in this council, and the council cast out of the Synagogue such as they judged offenders, as john. 9 22. & 12. 42. So our Saviour Math. 18. 17. sendeth to this new Consistory, who have like power to cast out of the Church. We may here as in a mirror behold how far the wisest whilst they follow their own devices, do err from the truth. Is it likely or possible that our Saviour Christ would fetch his pattern for the Elders of his Church and th'excuting these high judgements from that corrupt degenerate Sunedrion of the jews, which by th'institution of God was merely civil, and not or deined for causes ecclesiastical, as appeareth Exod. 18▪ Numb 11. Deutr. 1. the Priests bearing the charged and having the deciding of all ecclesiastical causes Numb. 18. Deut. 17. But this council of theirs was now mixed of the Elders, of the People, and the Priests, and handled all causes both civil and ecclesiastical indifferently, Mat. 26. 3. Actt. 4. 5. How unjustly and ungodly they dealt, may appear by their handling our Saviour and his Apostles from time to tyme. Now as there is no likeness to collect these surmises from that place, so is there no one circumstance in that scripture to lead thereunto, There being taught how all Christians ought to reprove and prosecute offences one towards an other, all being generally comprised within this rule, to admonish & be admonished, aswell Elders as others. There is no mention of any sending unto such Consistory of Elders as they seigne unto themselves, & would erect. The Heathen & Publican there spoken of have no reference unto, neither give any occasion to speak of the jewish Sunedrion. The heathen all men know were not excommunicate or cast out, but kept out of the Temple: they might not enter Deut. 23. The Publicans though in civil conversation they were abhorred of the precise Pharasies, yet were they not cast out of the Temple being jews or Proselytes Luk. 18. 10. So that our Saviour there rather teacheth his Disciples by the present estate & estimation of the Heathen & the Publican how to walk towards th'excommunicate, by th'example of the one to avoid all spiritual communion with them as with heathens, as also by the example of the Publican all civil conversation as much as may be, them any way there sendeth to this Consistory, whereof through the whole Testament of Christ they can show no warrant. But directly contrary it were to the order, power, and liberty of the whole Church, to the duties of every member, and to the duties of these Elders in their offices, That they should in this manner draw all the actions & affairs of the whole Church into their private Consistory before themselves only. Elders were appointed for the preservation of the order of the Church, 
1 Tim. 3.  and not for the subversion thereof: 
Tit. 1. 5.  for the defence of the liberty of the least, 
3 joh. 9  and not to pluck away the liberty of all. Elders were appointed to instruct & to guide the Church in the word and ways of God, 
2 Cor. 11. 20  and not to pluck the word of God from them into their own hands only, and to debar them from walking in the ways that God hath prescribed and commanded. Though Elders be governors and overseers of the Church, 
1 Pet. 5. 3.  yet are they servants of the Church, and not Lords over Gods heritage. 
1 Cor. 12. 19  They are members of the whole body, and not the whole body. 
Ephes. 4. 7. 16.  If all were one or some few members, where were the body? The body is not one member but many, And as it consists of many members so hath it use of all, and may be separate from none. How unnatural then are those members which thus separate & seclude themselves from the whole, yea rather sequester & seclude the whole from them, and arrogate & assume the public duties & power of the whole into their own hands, as though God had given all gifts unto them, and they had no need of others. And thus puffed up with pre-eminence of their own place and excellency of their own gifts, despise all the rest as base, ignorant, unworthy to be in their Consistory, to have any voice of consent or dissent there, alleging them to be tumultuous, contentious, factious, ungoverned, ignorant, inclined to the worst etc.: thus abuse they their own gifts and deprave others. These are evil speeches and hard reports to be given out upon the people of God, the chosen of CHRIST, partakers of the same precious faith and glorious inheritance with themselves, members of the same body even members of CHRIST with them, sanctified with the same spirit and abhorring these evils wherewith they are charged, humble and easy to be led, ordered, and governed by the word of God in all things: Not presuming to speak beyond the proportion of their faith & knowledge, 
Rom. 12. 3.  or without necessity, or due order; which who so transgresseth is publicly reproved; So that these fitlier agree to these tumultuous assemblies where all the profane are received as members, then unto the holy Churches of Christ where none but the faithful are admitted or remain. Wherefore these accsuations which are cast upon the people are rather cast upon the Church, yea upon Christ himself, who is the author of this law & commandment; who sendeth to the whole Church, and commandeth the whole Church & not the Consistory to excommunicate: 
1 Cor. 14. 33  yet is not Christ the author of disorder but of peace, 
1 Cor. 11. 16.  neither have the Churches of God custom to be contentious. For the avoiding of which disorder and contention are Elders appointed of God to instruct and guide the Church in doing the will of God, And not to withdraw those actions which God hath commanded to be done in and by his Church publicly, into a private Consistory, into the hands of a few: Wherein they make themselves transgressors of the will of God, disturbers, and violaters of that holy order which CHRIST hath established in his Church, 
1 Cor. 14. 24. 25.  and of that heavenly Symphony wherein CHRIST hath contempered the whole body together.  
And now as the fault and pride of these Elders is great and intolerable of the one side, so were it again a most monstrous confusion & high rebellion on the other side, if the people should thus expulse and shut out their governors and guides, those most fit members that God hath given them to these actions, from amongst them, and then decide and determine causes by plurality of voices. What can be devised more barbarous and unworthy the Church of CHRIST then this? Were not this as if the body should offer violence unto or lay aside the eyes, and then divide it self into factions and parts for the business it hath to do? This balloting by suffrage or plurality of voices might well be a custom amongst the heathen in their popular governments, but it is unheard of and unsufferable in the Church of CHRIST, whatsoever some dream unto themselves thereof. There all from the highest to the lowest in all actions inquire the will of God: 
〈◊〉 8. 19  which being known, they all then walk by the same rule, 
Phil. 3▪ 16.  and with one consent do the will of God accordingly. There is no division in that body, 
Phil. 2. 2. 3.  neither any thing done according to the will of man, but according to the will of God only, all having received of and being guided by one and the same spirit, even as God is one, and CH●IST not yea and nay. Now though all the members have received of this spirit of God, yet have not all received in like measure, 
● C●rinth. 12  Though all the body be light, yet is not all the body an eye. 
Rom. 1●. 4. 5. 6.  But God that hath made the body to consist of divers members, hath distributed divers gifts in divers measure unto them. Some he hath given Pastors, some Teachers etc., for the help and service of the whole, which members the whole body useth according to their gifts, office, and function. The whole body asketh instruction of their Teachers, council of their Elders etc. The people are commanded to obey their leaders, 
1 Th●s. 5. 12. 1●.  and to submit, to acknowledge, to honour them, and to have them in superabundant love. These are of God set over the flock, 
Hebr. 13. 17.  to watch, to instruct, admonish, exhort, rebuke etc.: 
2 Tim. ●. 1. 2  yet not to pluck away the power & liberty of the whole Church, 
Acts. 20. 28  or to translate and assume the public actions of the whole Church into their own hands alone, 
3 john. 9  They are men and may err: They themselves even for all their doctrines▪ 
Rom. 16. 17.  and actions are subject to the censure of the Church, 
●al. 1. 8. 9  or of the least members of the Church, if in any thing they be found to err or transgress. 
Col. 4. 17.  Yea if they remain obstinate, 
'tis 3. 10.  that Congregation whereof they remain Ministers & members is to proceed against them & to excommunicate them as any other 
2 Thes. 3. 14  member. For (as it hath been said) the judgements of the Church are not the judgements of men but of God, to which all the members of the Church must alike be subject. Which judgements, as they are committed to the whole Church with perfect rules for their manner of proceeding in every circumstance, so is the Church hereunto to use such members as God hath given & made most fit. 
1 Cor. 3. 22. 23.  For Paul, Apollo, and Cephas are theirs. And this doth no way diminish the power & interest of the Church in this action, Or translate these public affairs from the whole unto these Elders, whose council, direction, and service the Church useth herein, no more than a Prince or State may be said not to do those things whereunto they use the advise & service of their Council.  
By the Church then here we understand every particular Congregation subsisting of all the members. Every of which Congregations hath equal interest in the word, promises, judgements, and power of Christ. CHRIST hath given unto all Churches the same testament, ministry, laws, and ordinances, with like charged & authority to observe the same. He hath given them the same order and communion in all places, one and the same rule to walk by towards them within the faith, as also to avoid & cast out such as departed from the faith or walk inordinately. Neither hath CHRIST given unto any one Church more power or prerogative then unto all other, Or set one Church above & over an other, otherwise then to wish & seek the good each of other & of all, to admonish, exhort, stir up each other as occasion requireth. And unto this every member of Christ is also bound in his caling, but not to intrude & encroach upon the public actions & duties of the whole Church, or the particular functions & offices of others. As to Pastors & Elders, 
Acts. 20. 2●  their office extendeth but unto those flocks whereof the holy Ghost hath set them Overseers, 
1 P●t. 5. 2.  and not unto all Churches in this manner, to which their ministry neither doth nor can extend. Again, Excommunication is no part of their ministry. Neither hath God tied it unto the office of any, but left it a public duty of the whole Congregation to be done of all with one consent. How presumptuous then is he that usurpeth this power over, yea of other Congregations to excommunicate, absolve, elect, depose etc. for them, yea that thus plucketh from them that power & charged which Christ hath given unto them? But how monstrous & intolerable were the pride of that Consistory which consisting but of a few particular members, shall assume the power & duties of so many Churches into their own hands? We are of mind that the best and learnedst of them shall find their own particular offices in their own particular flocks as much as they can well perform and discharged, though they should not thus encroach upon and assume the public duties of the whole Church, much less of m●nie Churches. And sure if this Consistory should duly intend all the several occasions, complaints, and matters of offence that hourly arise in so many sundry Congregations, especially where all the multitudes are received in as members, they should do nothing else through their whole life but sit in this Consistory, yea their whole lives would not suffice to a little part of this charged, where all th'offences of these multitudes both public and private were duly admonished and prosecuted according to the commandment of God. And so should these Pastors & Elders never be able to exercise their own ministri & officers in those peculiar Congregations where they are chosen to serve. Again, if every Congregation should be thus posted over and sent to this Consistory for the censuring of every particular offence & offender how manifest soever etc., manifold inconveniences and mischiefs would thereupon ensue. As that they must be driven oft-times to receive and join unto the most wicked & abominable in their prayers & sacraments; yea if the Pastor himself should fall into some sin & heresy, they must of force suffer him to administer until this Consistory had cast him out. Many were the reasons & more the inconveniences that might be alleged against this presumptuous irregular Consistory▪ which hath no ground in the word of God, but utterly subverteth, destroyeth, and corrupteth the whole order & communion of the Churches, openeth a wide gap to all licentiousness & profaneness of manners and conversation, wherein if the thousand part of the heinous faults of these wicked multitudes, these Sodomitical christians of these times should be noted, prosecuted, censured, they should then in one week have as few christians as now they have many; but now by this rejecting God's ordinance & erecting their own devices, all sin aboundeth & over-floweth, and no sin (though obstinately held & persisted an) is judged to deserve this censure, Especially here in England where they excommunicate for no sin; but as the faults above alleged are held but bleamishes in their worship, so the greatest sins & wickedness are held but infirmities in their life by the Prophets of these days. But unto this their Consistory again. They that thus shall erect & advance one particular Congregation as a judge & a Mother over others their Sisters, must also erect in the same Congregation or Consistory, one particular Pastor that must be a judge & a Father over other Pastors his brethren. And then let them duly consider how far this differeth from, Or at least how then they can condemn that Apostatical Sea of ROME, and that unholy Father that sitteth therein. And let Mr. give. that is so well skilled in discipline & so derideth our ignorance, now at length consider better of this reason, Seing every particular Congregation of Christ hath the power of our Lord jesus Christ against all sin and transgression to censure the sin, and to excommunicate the obstinate offenders etc. And seeing these Parishes have not this power of Christ, neither in themselves in particular, nor yet in their Consistories as hath been proved, whether this conclusion which he termeth so absurd will not follow, That they are not therefore the true churches of Christ. And let him the next time frame a better answer than the Geneva Consistory, which though for the reasons abovesaid it can yield him no help, yet may it not be compared with the popish courts of these antichristian Bishops:  
Neither will his other kinds of excommunication in their English Romish Synods prove better. Our answer then unto his second question is, That the excommuncication of an heretic after he is duly convinced & found obstinate, belongeth not to any Bishops or Elders of other Churches, but unto that Congregation whereof this heretic stood a joined member. Although we grant that for the discussing of matters in doubt, 
Acts. 15.  and the convincing of some notorious subtle heretic, the aid of other Churches is very necessary. But the bloody proceedings of these popish Bishops that in their Consistory not only convince the heretitke after their scholastical and unchristian manner, but deliver him to the secular powers to be burned with fire (whether the quality of the heresy deserve death or no by the law of God, whereby they make the magistrates together with themselves guilty of murder) declare unto all men how unlike their popish Consistories are to the holy, free, well ordered Synods of christian Churches. But blessed be God that hath somewhat restrained their cruelty and hewn their antichristian horns by statute here in t●is land that they cannot in that manner proceed unto blood: howsoever, their tongues are not restrained thereby from pronowncing that truth of Christ's Gospel (which they cannot and dare not undertake to convince) heresy: and those Christians which yield not to their antichristian yoke and enormities, Heretics.  
Unto the Convocation also of these Romish Priests and horned Clergy, we answer, That it carrieth no show of a christian Synod or Council; and so their excommunication of as little value as their Sire the Pope's is. Further we answer, That Synods and Counsels were not instituted to pluck away the power or ●o execute the public duties of the Church, but to instruct, stir up, and confirm them in their duties, to help them to decide controversies, to show them the rules of God's word, and not to break them or to make new. Moreover we say, That in a christian Synod no christian ought to be shut out, 
Acts. 15.  but hath equal power and freedom to speak in assent or dissent of any thing there handled, as occasion requireth. Yet ought every christian to use this power and liberty aright, not disturbing the holy order of the Church, presuming to speak before their ancients, or against any thing by them said, without showing just cause etc., always keeping themselves within the compass of faith and sobriety: Who so doth otherwise is reproved of all, and judged of all as a disturber.  
NExt cometh the Suspension or half communication of the Church of ENGLAND, namely, the Priests repelling notorious offenders & the open Wicked from the Sacrament. Mr. Siffard being demanded of us simple christians what warrant he could show for this strange censure in the Testament of CHRIST, and what authority the Priest there hath to excommunitate any member of the Church, if so be this Suspension were in nature of excommunication, Answereth; that it is in nature of excommunication to such as have been before admitted, yet not to be compared or any thing near so great as excommunication; And for the Minister, that he is to take heed to himself that he give not holy things to dogs; To beware of that which may give public offence, & bring the holy mysteries into contempt. Because these his answers do no way show or prove that we demand, it is needful that we make a little ●urder search to seek out the nature of this Suspension, and how near it cometh to excommunication. We find that such as before were partakers of, are now openly repelled from the Table of the Lord for notorious sin & wickedness by the Priest alone. Now touching this Sacrament doth not the Apostle say The Cup of blessing which we blest, is it not the communion of the blood of CHRIST? The bread which we break, is it not the Communion of the Body of CHRIST? Because we many are one bread, one Body; for we all partake of one bread 1 Cor. 10. 16. 17. We see here this Sacrament of the Supper to denote that communion which all that partake thereof have with Christ as his members: And again that communion which they have one with an other in CHRIST as one an others members. This their suspension then being a public removing of notorious offenders from the communion of Christ, and from all benefit of his death: From the communion of the Church, and from all interest of the Saints, We would know of him what it lacketh of excommunication, and what excommunication is more? If he say that the suspended are not repelled from the ministry of the word, and prayers of the Church as th'excommunicate are; We would then know of him where he hath learned to receive such to the communion of the ministry or any actions of the Church, that are repelled from all communion and fellowship with Christ and his Church. Or how dare he undertake to offer up their prayers in this estate unto God, whom for their notorious sin and impenitency he hath repelled from the communion of Christ's body and blood? thinketh he that Christ can be a Priest for any at the golden Altar to offer or receive the incense and odours of their prayers, unto whom he refuseth to be a sacrifice at the brazen Altar? Or hath he not some Popish conceit of more holiness in the outward elements of the bread & wine in this Sacrament, than there is in the fellowship of the holy prayers and administration of God's word in the Church? else why should he more repel for notorious sin & wickedness from this Sacrament, then from the communion of the prayers and ministry of the Church? Our Saviour Christ doth command that when the sin is public & brought 
Math 18. 17  unto the Church, 
● Cor. 5.  them if the offender hear not the Church but remain impenitent, 
● Timo. 5. 21  he should without delay or partiality be cut off and cast out as a withered branch, 
john. 15. 6.  and be delivered unto Satha● for the humbling of his flesh, that the spirit might be saved in the day of the Lord. The parish Priest in the Church of England instead of excommunication doth suspend such notorious wicked and impenitent from the Table of the Lord, yet admitteth he them still to the prayers and ministry of the Church in this estate, and holdeth them still members as before. The Lord saith that excommunication when the sin is public and the offender obstinate, is the only remedy that we can administer for the salvation of the party, and the preservation of the whole Church. The Church of England saith that Excommunication is to rough and severe to cut him quite off, and cast him quite out at once, and therefore hath devised this temperate & middle course to cut him half off, and cast him half out. Is not this to judge their own ways equal and the Lords ways unequal? Is it not to esteem themselves more merciful, just, and wise than the Lord himself? else would they not say that Excommunication were to rough when the sin is notorious, and the offender obstinate: else would they not in place of excommunication bring in their own devised Popish Suspension. Whereby, besides that they control God and break his commandment in sparing, 
Leu 20. 4. 5  where they should smite & cut off, 
Nomb. 35. ●3▪ 34.  and in suffering, when they should cast out, they further bring the whole Church into the contagion of these sins, and into the judgement & wrath of God for the same; 
jer. 3. 1  if so be it be true that is written, that a little of such leaven maketh sour the whole jump, 
1 Corin. 5. 6  or that the wrath of God for such offences burneth-against the whole Church. Moreover it would be known of this discipliner this suspender, in what estate we might esteem & hold this notorious wicked person thus suspended, whether as a brother, or as an heathen. If a brother, how may he then be repelled from the communion with Christ and his Church? Why should he being a member, having made profession of his faith, and not yet excommunicate, be denied those heavenly comforts & helpers of his faith? If he be not to be held a member, why is he not then according to the commandment of God publicly cast out, that all men might know how to esteem of him, and how to walk towards him? For surely except it were the Pope's purgatory we never heard of such a middle mean estate as this▪ Neither ever in Christ's Testament have we read of such a censure as this idol suspension they use. Neither, for any thing by him alleged, can we perceive any warrant that the Priest may in this manner by his sole authority reject any from the communion table. It followeth not, because he is to look that he give not holy things to dogs, to beware of public offence, and that he bring not the holy mysteries into contempt, that therefore of his sole authority he may repela●ie from the Sacrament, that hath before received it. 
1 Corin. 4. ●  The means for him to avoid offences, to preserve his ministry from contempt, 
Hebr. 3. 2  is to keep the commandments of God. The Lord hath commanded that when any, that is called a b●other, fale into open sin, and remaineth obstinate and hardened therein, so that he refuseth to hear the Church, that such an offender in open Congregation by the whole Church be cast out, delivered to Satan in the name of our Lord JESUS CHRIST. No where is there in all Christ's Testament any commandment that the Minister of his sol● authority should reject any from the communion of Christ & of the Church, especially in this conterfeite manner. The way then for the ministry to avoid offence, to preserve the holy mysteries from contempt, is to cause the Church according to the commandment of God to reject & cast out such offenders & wicked persons: so shall he be sure not to deliver the holy things of God unto dogs. Yea if the Church should refuse to cast them out, then ought he to stay his ministery, and not to communicate with other més sins, or in this estate to execute the ministery of Christ unto them whilst they refuse to obey Christ's voice. But instead hereof this sacrilegious Priest & his compaignions' are not afraid to prostitute & sell the body & blood of Christ to the open profane, notoriously wicked, skorners, and contemners, for their wage, offerings, tithes &c. thus trampling the Son of God under their feet, and counting the blood of the Testament a common thing. What flourish soever they may seem to make with this their wooden dagger of suspension (which rather manifesteth their folly and presumption, than any way cleareth them of this sacrilege) great is their presumption in that they take upon them this absolute power over the whole Church and over the Table of the Lord, to repel whom they list of their own sole authority from the communion of CHRIST and of his Church, whereof they are but Ministers and particular members in the best account, and not Lords & sole rulers. And yet greater is their presumption in that they dare thrust out the holy ordinance of God (namely public Excommunication) and in place thereof set up their own devised idol suspension; which what kind of censure it is, may appear by that which hath been said. It hath no foundation or warrant in CHRIST'S Testament, but possesseth the place of that it is not, namely, of true excommunication, therefore it must needs be that idol instrument of that foolish shepherd, 
●ach. 11.  which the Lord setteth over those sheep with whom he hath disannulled the covenant.  
The authority of their Portesse their service-book, will no way justify either them or it. The abominations of that book have been a little touched, yet is not this wretched man ashamed to stand under that monstrous idol, and to profess that all the ministery of England use that book in the public prayers, and administration of & prohibition from the Sacraments. The vanity and folly of this idol suspension most plainly appeareth unto all men by the little good it doth in any of these parishes where all profaneness and iniquity still aboundeth. The Bishop, his Chancellor, or Commissary may with one word of their mouth heal the greatest wound the Parrish-Priest can make with this Suspension, whatsoever Mr. Parson say. They have power to absolve any that he bindeth; and how cheap their absolutions are, is not unknown to any whore master in all the Parish. The Bishop hath power to make and to depose Ministers at his pleasure; he hath power over the whole ministration; he prescribeth how, when, to whom they shall administer. What truth then is in these words that the Bishop cannot take away that power which their service-book giveth them, when he may absolve the party, disannul the suspension, depose the Minister etc. In that he saith the Bishop is but a Minister and no Lord over their faith and conscience, The same will every Popish Priest say of their sovereign Lord the POPE, to preserve the dignity of their ministery: The POPE writeth himself but the servant of the servants of God. What Lordly authority the Bishop hath & exerciseth, and in what servile subjection the Priests & all the Parishes stand unto their Courts & jurisdiction, shall hereafter more appear when we come to the discussing of those points. In the mean while we willingly assent unto Mr. GIFFARD, that the christian reader shall judge whether their service-book be not a fit Portesse for such Priests, and this suspension a fit tool for such worckmen. Still affirming even with wonder that if the judgements of God were not upon their right eye and upon their right arm, they might perceive how their Lords the Bishops dress them, and how this weapon they allow them wanteth both edge and point etc.  
Thus having finished his answer to our assumption, he proceedeth to a former answer where he denied the Consequence. That where wicked profane men are received into & retained in the bosom of the Church, there the covenant is disannulled with them, and they are no longer Gods people, but a false antichristian Synagogue. To disprove this, he alleged that there were but few true worshippers that frequented the Temple amongst multitudes of profane & ungodly men. To this he now addeth the examples of the Church at Corinth and of the seven Churches in Asia etc. We before answered & still answer, that there is no comparison betwixt, or Argument to be drawn from those Churches which were rightly gathered & established, and these confused Bibilonish Synagogues of theirs. The Israelites were a peculiar separated people unto the Lord from the world. The people of these other Churches were won, called, and gathered unto CHRIST by the preaching of the Gospel, every one entered into the Church by the voluntary profession of his own faith. No uncircumcised or Gentile might enter into the Temple to offer any gift there. All, nor yet the greater part of the City of Corinth, nor of these other parts of Asia were not received into the Church as members; But here in their Church of England all the whole land is received in, and that immediately from open idolatry without any voluntary profession of their own faith by the people in particular, yea without the preaching of the Gospel going before to call them unto the faith. Therefore in these reasons he but beggeth the question, and assumeth that which he ought to prove, Namely, That these multitudes of all the profane & all sorts of wicked persons, were sometimes rightly gathered unto and entered covenant with the Lord, having the true ministry & government of CHRIST set over them, and now being fallen into some sins are not cast out but still retained in their Church. This if he had done, than had there been some cause that he might have brought against us th'examples of these Churches. Then should not we have needed to have showed him his folly twice. Yet this if he had done (the contrary whereof is manifest to all that remember the beginning of her majesties reign, or but behold the present estate in the same, or rather in more confusion, sin being more increased) Yet than we should easily have put difference betwixt those Churhes that amended at the Apostles admonition, and these which reject all the rules & ordinances ecclesiastical of CHRIST'S Testament as pernicious and intolerable to th'estate of this land, and persecute all such as admonish them of, and will not partake with them in their idolatry & sacrilege.  
WE also in our former writing showed him how the faithful servants of God in the idolatrous days of King ACHAS, MENASSE, AMON, JEHOIAKIM etc.: refrained from the Temple, being so polluted and defiled, and mixed not themselves with the wicked in idolatrous worship. This Mr. GIFFARD confesseth to be true, and that it was their duty so to do. But he saith we do not argue whether the godly did join with the wicked in idolatry, but whether the wicked were suffered and did join with the godly in true worship. To the question we have above spoken: Only this by the way we draw from his own confession, That if the godly in those days did well in separating from & not communicating with the wicked in those times of public idolatry, then cannot we be blamed which separate & withdraw ourselves from these profane assemblies, where such abominable idolatry and sacrilege is publicly used and enforced, as we have above proved; and thus are we by him cleared and justified, Again we convince him of his own mouth thus, If the faithful did well in those times to withdraw▪ and separate themselves from the wicked in their idolatry which then was publicly set up, Then was not the public estate of the jews in those times of us to be held the true Church of God. For the godly may at no time separate from the true Church of God, nor repair unto the false Church. And thus by himself is an end put at once to all his cavils whereby he hath endeavoured to prove the jews in these most corrupt times to be the true outward church of God, and to accuse us of heresy that affirm, where such heinous transgressions are obstinately defended & persisted in by the whole Church, there the Covenant (unto the judgement of the faithful) is disannulled, there the faithful may not communicate. And very ignorant is Mr. Giffard if he think that the wicked and profane may either be received into the Church, or retained in the Church as members. The wicked & profane which were never entered into the Church, may & aught to be called to hear the ministry of the word of God in the Church, as the means whereby they may be called unto the faith, and so upon their profession be received as members into the fellowship & communion of the Church. But until they make open & voluntary profession of their own faith & obedience, they cannot be received as members, or have communion with the Church. Then until Mr. Giffard prove that the profane multitudes and open wicked which never made any voluntary profession of their own faith and obedience, may be received as members into the Church, he cannot justify these Parish assemblies of England, or convince us. Further we grant, that wicked men, such as fall away from their profession and obedience, shall daily arise in the church, else there should be no cause of Excommunication. But when their sin is public, then ought the Church to censure it, and if they be found obstinate, to cast them out; else were there no use of Excommunication. We grant also, that the Church sometimes of negligence, delaying in due time to cast out such wicked, is notwithstanding (if they amend upon admonition) to be held the true Church of God. And this our adversary himself Pag. 56. acknowledgeth that we confess, although now forgetting himself (his heart being fraught with malice) he bursteth forth in the gall thereof, accusing and slandering us to hold these heresies. That where any wicked and open sinners worship together with the Church as members of the Church/ there the Covenant is disannulled with the whole Church. Again/ that where corrupt manners break forth in those that profess the Gospel/ they be not only utterly void of faith which offend/ but also all they that worship together with them (though never so much grieved at their sins) are fallen from the Covenant. thirdly that we make the stableness of God's Covenant to depend upon the works of men/ and not of the free grace and mercy of God. How could this accuser draw these heresies from this assertion? It is the Church of CHRIST which hath the power to Excommunicate though it fault much by negligence in executing the same. Doth not the express contrary herein appear? How can he then reconcile these charges of his unto this proposition of ours? Or can he produce any one sentence that ever we wrote or spoke containing such odious doctrines as these? If not, these heresies must still return to his own throat, as to the sepulchre from whence the sprang; these charges must remain upon his reckoning & not upon ours.  
WE hold that the open profane and wicked, such as were never called unto the faith, cannot be received into the Church as members, before they make open and voluntary profession of their own faith and obedience. He that hath from the beginning distinguished light from darkness, hath always made difference and separation betwixt the world & the Church, caling the one the Sons of God, the other the daughters of men; preserving the one in his ark, drowning the other in the flood: he chose and separated to himself out of the whole world one peculiar Nation and people to be his visible Church, to whom no profane which made not profession of the same faith might be admitted or joined in their worship. The word Ecclesia, or Church, we know to be a company called forth from the world, as were CHRIST'S Disciples, and the faithful in all places at the first gathering of the Church. Again we hold that such as are duly entered into the Church falling from their profession, and after due admonition remain obstinate and hardened in their sin, aught by the Church to be excommunicate: And if the Church being admonished & stirred up unto their duty refuse to obey & execute the commandment of God, that then unto the faithful it ceaseth to be the true Church of God, and aught to be avoided until they repent. The Church of CHRIST must ever be obedient unto CHRIST'S voice, which voice when they openly despise & wilfully resist, they are a company of rebels & not a company of Saints. When they fall away from the faith, they fall away from the Covenant of God; when they obstinately persist in sin & wilfully despise God's voice, they fall away from the faith. Faith believeth, reverenceth, and obeyeth God's word so far as it is revealed unto them, and never wilfully despiseth or rejecteth any any part of the same. God can never be severed from his word; they that despise & reject God's word, despise & reject God himself. Christ ruleth and reigneth by the sceptre of his own word, they that are not subject unto, but wilfully disobey that word, are not subject unto Christ, have not him a King, but a judge over them. Severe laws & judgements are set down in God his word against presumptuous sin, yea against all sin whereof they deny to repent. God hath executed these judgements upon the Angels that sinned, upon the original world, upon the Nation of the jews: Neither will any vain titles of Church, Covenant etc. excuse or deliver them (being found in the like transgressions) from the like judgements. God is just, & his judgements are alike pronounced & executed against all, as against one, being found & wilfully remaining in the transgression of his law. Now than whilst we conclude, that where the people were never rightly called unto the faith or gathered unto CHRIST, and orderly joined together in Christ, But multitudes of profane & all sorts of wicked persons, idolaters, Atheists etc., even the whole land without any choice, any separation, received into their Church as members, without any voluntary profession of their own faith, that in this estate they cannot be esteemed the true planted Churches of CHRIST, With what conscience or truth can this ungodly man hereupon defame & divulge us to hold this heresy, that where corrupt manners break forth in those that profess the gospel/ they be not only void of faith which offend/ but all they also which worship together with them (though never so much grieved at their sins) are fallen from the Covenant. How can he liken these routs of profane Atheists and wicked persons of the world to the faithful servants of CHRIST in his Church, or compare their open wickedness (which they commit even with greediness) to the faults & eskapes of frailty or negligence in the Saints? Again whilst we affirm, That where open obstinacy is joined unto public sin, whether it be in the whole Congregation or in any particular member, there that Congregation or that member cannot by us be judged faithful or within the outward Covenant until they repent, with what fear of God or shame of men can this man publish us to hold, that where any open gross sin is committed by any/ and they still through ignorance or negligence are suffered in the Church/ there the Covenant to be disannulled with the whole Church: And so we to fall into this heresy. To make the stableness of God his Covenant not to depend upon mercy and free grace promised and bound with an oath/ but upon our works/ yea upon the works of other whom we must judge.  
THis heresy after he himself hath devised in our name, he proceedeth to confute it with many words, showing the stability of God's promises, the greatness of God's mercy, that remembreth his Covenant in his greatest indignation & wrath, as also the small beginnings and daily growth and proceedings of our sanctification in this life. As though we ever doubt or denied that the Lord our God his covenant was made, established, and preserved unto us in his CHRIST only without any works or merit in us, present or to come, to deserve or to retain his favour the least minute. Alas our miserable & forlorn estate even from our Mother's womb before we know the Lord, yea our continual transgressions & defections ever since we knew the Lord (when we behold our lives in that sparkling glass of his law) do show us that we are not saved be works, but by the free grace & mercy of God through faith in CHRIST, and that not of ourselves, but by the gift of God whose work we are, created in CHRIST JESUS unto good works which God hath foreordained that we should walk in them. But now whilst we acknowledge the whole work of our salvation from the beginning to the end, to be of God and not of ourselves, to proceed from & to be established upon his free grace, mere mercy, and love, and not from or upon any goodness in us foreseen or subsequent: Yet make we not thereby the grace of God and his holy spirit which he hath given to all his elect, to be idle, vain, or fruitless in any of them, but to regenerate, change, enlighten and sanctify them, to bring all their affections into, and to keep them in the love & obedience of the truth. By the profession of which truth they are known & received as members of the visible Church, made partakers of the common comforts & covenant of the Saints. From which profession when they fall away, and will not be reduced by the voice of the Church or renewed by repentance, but remain obstinate & hardened in their sins, then are they by the commandment & power of CHRIST to be cut off as withered branches, to be cast out from the fellowship of the saints, and all interest in CHRIST, to be delivered unto Satan etc. The same rules, faith, salvation, judgements we have above showed to belong unto all and unto every one, unto all as unto one being found in the same faith, or in the same transgressions. Now than whilst the whole Congregation or any member thereof shall remain hardened in sin, denying to obey Christ's voice, refusing to repent, who can say that this Church or man in this estate, can by us (which judge & see but according to the rules of the word) be affirmed & held the true Church of Christ within the outward Covenant, when Christ himself commandeth us to deliver them up to Satan in his name, to have no fellowship with them? This cannot be done of us unto any, whom we may affirm within the outward covenant. God his secret election & counsels wherein he hath determined from before all worlds who shallbe saved, how far the faithful shallbe tried & fall, and when he will raise them again, belong not unto us to judge of. 
Deu. 29. 29  only this is most sure, they that thus fall away & are hardened, are not of us to be held & esteemed within the outward Covenant, or received, until they as publicly repent. How then can this wicked slanderer draw this graceless collection & damnable conclusion from this holy doctrine, That where obstinacy is joined unto public sin, there the outward Covenant is broken, no communion to be held until repentance, be made, Therefore we hold that the stableness of God's Covenant with his Church dependeth upon the worcked of men. Because we say that God sanctifieth all that he saveth, Therefore we hold salvation by works. Because we hold that faith which is without fruits to be dead & worthless, Therefore we hold salvation by works. Because God requireth obedience of all his servants that enter into or remain in his house, and commandeth them to have no fellowship with any, longer than they continue in the same faith & obedience, Therefore we make the stableness of Gods Covenant to depend upon our works, yea upon the works of others whom we must judge. What heretic or perverted spirit could more highly abuse & deface the holy doctrines of Christ? Is Mr. Giffard a teacher of the Church of England, and cannot yet put difference betwixt the work of our salvation by Christ for us, & the work of God's holy spirit, the fruits of God's grace in us? That cannot put difference betwixt obedience & mercy, but that he will make the work of God's grace to abrogate God's grace? That cannot discern betwixt the secret election of God & Christ's visible Church? betwixt the temporary judgements of Christ's Church according to the rule of God's word, and the final doom of God in his determinate council? Thus not knowing what either God's Covenant, Christ's Church, the communion, or excommunion thereof meaneth, this impious man upon these dotages seeketh to convince us of his surmised heresies, because we blame & forsake these Babylonish confuse assemblies, where all sorts of profane and wicked are gathered together without faith or order, bound, sed, and suffered together in all impiety, mischief, and licentiousness, without censure or controlment, unto whom he for the wage of Balaam is powered forth, and most sacrilegiously selleth them his pretended Sacraments for their two penny shot or offering.  
HE laboureth to defend this sacrilege & confusion by th' examples of other Churches under the Law & under the Gospel. He beginneth with the estate of the Church under Moses, where the rebellious Israelites whose carcases fell in the wilderness, of whom the Lord swore that they should not see his rest; yet were not cast out of th' assembly nor separated, so long as they lived, nor their seed rejected. So that he still bear in mind that he but beggeth the question so oft as he compareth these confuse profane assemblies (that were never rightly gathered unto nor established in the faith) unto true Churches, unto this place we answer. That he most ignorantly & boldly affirmeth an untruth. We read Exod. 33. after the Israelites had made their Calf and committed idolatry, that Moses both did execution upon the chief idolaters, and withdrew his tent, and separated from the rest until they were reconciled unto the Lord. Further we read that upon public notorious transgressions the Lord executed public judgements sundry times, whereby the chief were taken away, the rest brought to repentance Numb. 12. & 14. 39 and 25. and 21. 6. 7. We read of separation from those of Corathes conspiracy etc. Numb. 16. 21. 24. 26. verses. We read also Numb. 12. that Miriam was separated out of the host until she was healed. Likewise we read of sundry particular judgements for particular transgressions. As for breaking the Sabaoth, for blaspheming etc. Num. 15. Whereby his impudency is convinced. But now if it were granted him (than which nothing can be more untrue) that these multitudes of profane rebels were not separated out of the host, yet except he can prove that they were received during these sins unto the Tabernacle of the Congregation (which he can never show, because it were so directly against those laws prescribed unto and by Moses) it can help him nothing. The wicked may remain in the common wealth, which yet ought to be cast out of the Church. In that he allegeth the seed of the wicked were not rejected; we first answer, that we find an outward repentance made by the offenders in the places above recited. Further we find that circumcision ceased all the time they traveyled in the wilderness until they came to Gilgal. 40. years. josh. 5. Wherefore this example nothing helpeth their wilful sacrilege in the Church of England. As to the other times when idolatry was publicly set up by the kings of juda; Ahas, Manasses, Amon, jehoiachim, Zedechiab we have already proved that they were not in that estate the true visible Church of God, 
Isa. 59  and that those faithful amongst whom the Lord preserved his Church; 
Ezek. 8.  neither might neither did communicate with them in their public worship and idolatry: 
jer. 7.  Which those places of Isay, jeremias, & Ezechiel do evidently prove both in manifesting the sins of those times, and taking away all vain titles and pretextes; showing that the name of Temple, Covenant, jerusalem etc. could no more avalye them, than the ark at Shilo and the like titles did them in the time of the judges. The Prophet jeremiah in his lamentations doth nowhere justify their public estate so much as every where lament the desolation of Zion, which name may much rather be understood of the former prerogatives and dignity of that nation, place, and people which were chosen and separated to the lords service and worship, then of that most corrupt estate of that sinful generation. As to the times after their return out of captivity when they mixed themselves with the heathen and broke the Sabaoth, we read they made notable repentance when they were admonished Ezra. 10. Nohem. 9 and 13. So that these times very evil fit Mr. Giffard.  
Further if we come to the time that our Saviour was exhibited in the flesh, 
●uk. 1. 6. & 2. 25.  we read at the time of his birth of sundry just & holy men both Priests and others, and how all things were performed by them according to the law of the Lord. But afterwards when they would not be instructed nor reform by our Saviour Christ, but with one consent despised, blasphemed, rejected, and persecuted him, and all that believed on him; Then were they not the true Church of God, but the persecuting & malignant Synagogue; Except Mr. GIFFARD hold not our Saviour Christ & his Disciples the true Church: Or that there may be two true Churches one opposite unto an other, led by two divers & contrary spirits: Or that God may be divided from Christ: Or the Church in Covenant with him without Christ. Also in that he affirmeth, That our Saviour Christ commanded his Disciples to worship together with them in this estate, to hear the Scribes & Pharasies teach & expound the law, although they taught corruptly & leavened the doctrines thereof, though they were hypocrites, blind guides, covetous, and ambitious, and very reprobates, yea though some of them were not of the tribe of LEVI, only because they were Ministers & sat in MOSES chair. What execrable heresies and horrible blasphemies doth this wretched man run into, whilst he seeketh to justify their heinous sacrilege, open idolatry, and confusion by our Saviour Christ's example? Doth he not hereby make our Saviour Christ guilty of the open breach of God's laws, and the destruction of all the people? Doth not God in as many places as he commandeth to hear true Prophets, forbidden to hear false Prophets, as he commandeth to obey his law and commandments, forbidden all human devices & traditions? Is there not a prescript law Deut. 13. That they ought not to hearken to the words of that Prophet that teacheth other doctrine and seeketh to seduce, though he had the power to do miracles & work wonders? Doth not SALOMON by the holy Ghost command all the children of the truth not to hearken to th' instruction that causeth to err from the words of knowledge. Prou. 19 27? And again in the first Chap. of his Song, is not the Church counseled by Christ himself not to stay in the steps of that flock, but to feed her kids above the tents of those shepherds? How plentiful are all the Prophets in this argument jeremy 23. Ezech. 13. zecha. 13. To which concord all the Doctrines of the new Testament. Math. 7. 15. and 15 14. and 16. 6. john. 10. 5. Rom. 16. 17. Gal. 1. 8. 1 Tim. 6. 3. 2. john. 10. 2 Peter. 2. 
〈…〉.  Was there not also express laws that the Priests which draw near unto the Lord should be holy, and not such open reprobates as he now acknowledgeth these to be? And also that the Lord had only separated & chosen to himself the tribe of Levi to serve & administer before him in the Tabernacle of the Congregation, 
N●mb 3. & 18.  and that no stranger might presume into that office? yet is not this blind guide afraid to affirm, That the Pharasies not being of the tribe of Levi were Ministers, and sat in the chair of MOSES, and therefore our Saviour commandeth his Disciples to hear them, were they never so wicked of life or corrupt teachers. Math. 23. In which place our Saviour having to deal with the persons of the corrupt teachers, first seeketh to reserve the dignity of his Father's law & ministry; then showeth these present teachers to be degenerate from both, being fallen into all manner of vice, pride, vainglory, hypocrisy, sects, schisms, calling them false teachers & corruptours of the law, blind guides, such as shut up the kingdom of heaven before men, neither entering in themselves, nor suffering them that would; devowring widows houses, cunning seducers, making their proselytes the children of Hell like themselves; Killers and murderers of the servants of God that are sent unto them; so that in conclusion he there leaveth sundry woes, all the blood of the righteous, & even the Maranatha upon them. Now, is it likely, or may it without blasphemy be thought that our blessed Saviour CHRIST would commit his Father's Law & Ministry unto these wretches, or the souls of his dear Disciples to be instructed & kept by these murderous blind guides? yet these blasphemies doth this wicked man publish, his Ordinary & all the Clergy of England allow & suffer to pass in print. Again if the Disciples in that place be commanded to hear the ministery of the Pharasies, then are they there commanded to observe all the human devices & traditions so contrary to the law of God, which they most zealously taught and enjoined, which our Saviour himself openly broke & rejected; and gave often warning unto his Disciples or them and such like false Prophets, commanding them to take heed of them, teaching them how to know them by their fruits. Math. 7. 15. 16 willing them to let them alone as the blind l●aders of the blind, using an argument of the inevitable peril. If the blind lead the blind both shall fall into the ditch. Math. 15. 12. 13. 14. charging them to beware of the leaven of the Pharasies Math. 16. 6. which leaven verse 12. they found to be the doctrine of the Pharasies. To these if sundry other places of his conflicts with these Scribes & Pharasies be added, it will evidently appear that he withdrew his Disciples from their doctrines, pronouncing every where woes & judgements against them.  
That he made also a separation and especial choice of his Disciples from the wicked people of the jews, evidently appeareth by the office and ministery of john the Baptist. whom he sent as an Herald before him to prepare his way, to proclaim his kingdom, to call the people to repentance, and to make ready a people to receive him, lest when he came he should smite the earth with cursing. Mightily did john refute all these vain arguments & allagations that Giffard allegeth of the seed of Abraham, the outward Covenant, Nation, Temple etc. Showing them that God was able of stones to raise up children unto Abraham; calling those boasting Pharasies the generation of vipers, showing them that only those trees that bring forth good fruit are the plants that shall stand and grow in the lords Orchard, that the other shallbe hewn down and cast into the fire, and that the lords axe is now laid to the root: Showing them that the Messiah of whom they boasted and whom they looked for, should come with his fan in his hand to cleanse his barn floor, to preserve his wheat in his granary, and to burn the chaff with unquenchable fire, baptizing none but such as confessed their sins. The same course took our Saviour CHRIST, sending forth his disciples to preach the gospel of the kingdom, who received and baptised none but such as repent of their evil life, and gave obedience to their doctrine: these our Saviour acknowledged, received, taught, instructed, guided as his own peculiar flock. 
zech. 11.  But all the other (as the sheep of destruction) he gave over to be spoiled and devoured of their own rulers, and one of an other, to be guided by those wicked and idol shepherds whose soul abhorred him, and his soul loathed them. Yea how full a separation there was betwixt these shepherds and these flocks, the hostility they showed unto our Saviour and his Disciples by excommunicating, persecuting, blaspheming him, and his round reproving them, every where in the history of his life doth appear. Further that he communicated not with them in their feasts, offerings, and worship in this their sin and obstinacy, appeareth as plentifully. He a long season when the jews laid wait to kill him refrained judea and jerusalem. At other times when he came thither, it was not to keep the feasts together with them, so much as to take occasion upon such concourse of people to instruct them, and to call them unto himself. He sometimes went not at all, sometimes went at the midfeast, And when he was there he kept not the Paschal together with them before the Temple according to the law deuteronomy. 12. 5. levit. 17. But he kept it apart with his Disciples in a private chamber: As when there was no public assemblies, as in Egypt, or when the Temple was shut or polluted, and the worship corrupted Exod. 12. 2 Chron. 35. yea he kept it upon an other day, namely upon the 14. of the first month according to the law, and not upon that day the jews kept theirs, which was a day after, as appeareth evidently by the history. Math. 26. For the jews solemn feast or cessation ought by the law to have been upon the 15. day, the next day after the Paschal, upon which day they crucified our Saviour, and kept their feast upon the Sabaoth, deferring the Paschal by their tradition one day longer than the law commanded: levit. 2. 4. 5. 6. Numb. 28. 17. by all which reasons, circumstances, and places, it is evident that our Saviour and his Disciples did not communicate with, but withdrew from the jews and their worship in this their sin and obstinacy. By whose example this great Clerk Mr. GIFFARD hath endeavoured to confute the Brownistes of heresy, and to prove that the open wicked and profane may be kept in the Church and communicated with, and yet neither the Church therefore cease to be a true Church, nor the faithful which together with these profane join in the worship of God and the Sacraments, be defiled thereby.  
Yet to make the matter more sure, he bringeth certain Churches planted by the Apostles, As the Church at Corinth, and the Churches of Asia. In the Church of Corinth were factions and schisms, corruption in the teachers, negligence in the Governors, th' incestuous person suffered, contentions among the people and that under heathen judges; They feasted in idol temple, they profaned the Supper of the Lord, they abused spiritual gifts, some denied the resurrection of the dead; yet the holy Ghost vouchsafeth them the name of the Church of God. Well, what of all this? Therefore the wicked profane multitudes which were never rightly gathered to the faith, may be received as members into the Church. We see no such consequent. The Church of Corinth was orderly gathered by the Apostle unto the faith, none received but such as believed and made open profession of their faith and obedience, Saints by calling. Again the Church of Corinth was rightly established into that order, and had such Ministers, Officers, and ordinances, as CHRIST in his Testament had assigned and th' Apostle instituted: so hath not the Church of England, but popish and antichristian, Therefore no comparison thus far forth betwixt the Church of Corinth and the Church of England. Neither can these faults wherein he compareth the Church of England to the church of Corinth, and wherein it is found like unto, or rather far without all comparison to exceed them, make the Church of England the true Church of God. What is it then this learned man would conclude from thence? That the open profane and obstinate wicked may be retained in and by the Church, wittingly and willingly after admonition, and yet that Congregation not cease to be the true Church of CHRIST. This he striveth to prove; And therefore where it is alleged that the Church of Corinth repent at the Apostle his admonition, and is by the Apostle himself said to have showed themselves pure in that business. 2. Corinth. 7. he maketh unto this a double answer. One, that they were Gods true Church before they repent; The other, that all did not show repentance as appeareth. 2. Corinth. 12. 20. 21. To the first we answer and never denied, That they being rightly gathered unto the faith and orderly established in the faith (notwithstanding that grievous sins broke out amongst them) so long as they despised not admonition and refused not to repent, were to be still held and esteemed as the true Church of CHRIST, who if we confess our sins is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all iniquity. But as we have often said, this maketh against Mr. GIFFARD, because the Church of ENGLAND was no such true Church before that and wherein these faults were and are committed. Unto his second allegation, that all showed not repentance for the uncleanness, fornication, and wantonness which they had committed; We acknowledge it as the Apostle recordeth it to be a great fault in the whole Church, That they did not more diligently search out the sin, and speedily cast out the sinners that remained impenitent. Yet was this in the Church but a fault of negligence, and not of any obstinacy; they neither contemnded admonition, neither spurned against their admoni●hers. Yet even this slackness and negligence the Apostle thus sharply & severely reproveth, threatening (if they amend not) to come with a rod, and with the power of CHRIST against them. He neither justified nor flattered them in their sins, as this false Prophet doth, who hath no better arguments to plead for o● justify this apostasy and obstinacy of the Church of England, than the greatest sins and odious faults of other Churches. But to such a height & measure is their wickedness increased, as all the sins of all Churches in all ages are too narrow to cover the bed of their fornication &c. Neither can those fearful breaches & lamentable ruins in the Churches of Asia heal the wound of the Church of England. If God so threatened or menaced those Churches to come and fight against them, to remove their candlestick etc., what shallbe the judgements of the Church of England? what can she expect, whose sins so far exceed, which taketh boldness to continue in sin, and plead for the same from these examples which the Lord hath left as monuments of terror to all posterities. Yet in all these desolations of these Churches can there be no comparison betwixt these barbarous confuse assemblies, and those Churches which sometimes were rightly gathered and established unto the faith, and into the order of CHRIST: and so all Mr. GIFFARDS' labour and pains herein is lost. Neither will this conclusion follow, That because it ceaseth not to be a Church by and by where the open wicked are not separated (because the Church sometimes may fall into such sins of ignorance or of negligence) Therefore the godly are not defiled which communicate with these open wicked in prayers, sacraments, and other spiritual exercises. Might he not aswell conclude, that because it ceaseth not to be a Church hereupon, therefore it is no sin. But if it be a sin in the whole Church, then is the whole Church guilty of & defiled with that sin.  
Now as Mr. GIFFARD laboureth to draw this conclusion, so striveth he to prove this proposition, That the admission of the open wicked & impenitent to the table of the Lord doth not defile either the Sacrament or the faithful receivers. Hereunto he hath gathered a few stolen reasons. 1. As that the wickedness of the Minister doth not defile the holy things of God: judas, Ely his Sons, the Scribes & Pharasies were wicked men, yet were the things they administered holy. 2. Then that the godly communicant toucheth not the sins of others, but the holy things of God; because there cannot be a separation from the wicked in body or bodily things always: but they which touch not their sins obey the commandment Come out from among them, separate yourselves & touch none unclean thing. That the blame of receiving such wicked resteth only upon such as have the power of the discipline in their hands, and not upon private members which mourn & lament to see such fowl matters winked at, which mourners are cleared Ezech. 9  
TO discuse these points in particular would make this discourse over long, briefly therefore this we say. To the first, that difference must be put betwixt hypocrites (whose wickedness is only known unto the Lord) and such wicked, whose sin is known unto the Church. The public ministry of secret hypocrites that are rightly called to a lawful office, and execute their office without fault or blame, is holy, blessed, and profitable to the whole Church (which can but look upon and judge the outward action and estate, and not the heart and conscience of any) yet this their ministery is unavayleable to themselves, and maketh to their own greater condemnation. But where the Minister is detected of, and remaineth obstinate in any transgression, his ministration is not acceptable to the Lord, neither aught to be suffered or joined unto of the Church. The Lord willbe sanctified of all that come near unto him. Under the law he required an holy ministery to serve in the priests office without outward main or bleamish, lest he defiled the holy things of the Lord; The offerings of any other were not acceptable to the Lord. It is also written that the sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord, as if they cut off a dogs head, or offered swines blood. They have nought to do to declare the Lords ordinances that hate to be reform, and cast his word behind them. The Church ought not only to forbid such to administer, but to cast them out of the fellowship, which if the Church neglect and refuse to do, them are they guilty of the open or wilful breach of God's holy ordinances in suffering his holy name and ministery to be profaned, yea in joining thereunto and rejoicing therein. The examples by him alleged no way help him. judas whilst he remained with our Saviour was an hypocrite, his sins undiscoured, yea uncommitted, so long in that estate his public ministery was lawful, holy, and acceptable unto others. The ministery of the Sons of Eli (after their wickedness was public) uvea abominable unto God, to be detested of all the faithful: yet was the sin of the people very great, who upon and for the sins of these wicked priests abhorred the offerings of the Lord, which were ever to be esteemed most holy, being lawfully administered, otherwise they are not the offerings of the Lord. The people then (as now) grew into Atheism and all impiety, abhorring all God's worship, and refusing to be at any charged, loving the creatures better than the Creator by seeing the great insolency and inreverence of the priests. Touching the Scribes and Pharasies we have already said enough.  
TO his other allegations, that the faithful are not defiled by communicating with the open and obstinate wicked in the Supper of the Lord and other spiritual exercises, because they touch not the sin of the wicked but the holy things of God etc. Surely this is very odd divinity, contrary to all the grounds of scripture that we have read of. We had thought that all the communicantes at the lords Table had been joined & commingled together into one spiritual body even into CHRIST, as many grapes are there bruised into one cup, many grains into one loaf. Further we had thought that no obstinate offender whose sin is publicly known, might have been admitted to that holy Table without wilful sacrilege and high profanation of those holy mysteries, both in all the Communicantes and in the Minister. 
Leu. 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. 21. 22  We read in the law plentifully▪ That the leprous or polluted person defiled whatsoever touched him, whether person, vessel, holy or civil etc., and that such person on vessel etc. remained unholy thereby, 
Chapters.  until they were cleansed according to the law. The Prophet Haggai confirmeth the same and saith, 
Hag. 2. 12. 13. 14. 15 verse.  that whatsoever holy thing, bread, wine, or oil, a polluted person toucheth, it is made thereby unclean. The Apostle also showeth in express words, That as a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump, so one open unworthy received to the supper of the Lord maketh all the communicantes 
●. Corinth. 5. 6. 7. 8.  guilty, and their rejoicing or feast not good before the Lord, likening the whole Church to the lump, the wicked person and sins kept amongst them to the leaven, their rejoicing to the eating of the Paschal etc.: Which most direct place this ignorant sacrilegious Priest would put away and falsify by likening this rejoicing here spoken of to a glorying in the sin of th' incestuous, as though the Church of Corinth had ever been so beastly. And by endeavouring to separate the elements of the bread and wine in this Sacrament from their mystical sense, the communicantes that receive the same together, from their spiritual communion they have one with an other, the whole Church from the preparation and care they ought to have both generally and particularly in administering and receiving the Sacraments, And having thus roiled the pure fountains, he confowndeth the sense and distinct doctrines of the Apostle, by bringing in certain instances where the wife, servant, passenger, upon some especial duties and necessities, may be occasion eat ordinary bread with th' excommunicate. Whereupon he concludeth, that the faithful also may upon necessity (as if the Church will not cast out the open wicked and impenitent) communicate with them in the supper of the Lord. And if so be these faithful mourn and are grieved for this wilful sacrilege of the Minister and the rest of the Church, than they touch not their sin, but the holy things of God, and are clear Ezechell. 9 because the separation from the wicked cannot always be in body, as in the cases by him alleged of eating common bread with them. But let this caviller know that there is no comparison, much less any consequence, betwixt the eating common bread, and the eating of the Supper of the Lord with the open wicked and impenitent. There is no such spiritual mystery, communion, or commixture in the first, as in the second. Common bread is not forbidden the wicked, but these holy pledges utterly are, they ought not to be cast to hogs and dogs. Neither are we forbidden all civil conversation so absolutely with them, as we are all spiritual communion. In the one we see provision and exception made for duty and necessity. In the other there is no such duty or necessity, neither any such provision and exception mentioned in the Scripture, until these Priests to defend their port-sale and open sacrilege devised these shifts. The scripture utterly forbiddeth and repulseth the open wicked & impenitent from this holy banquet by more than the Cherubins shaking the edge of a sword. So far are the open wicked from being admitted to this feast, as they are to be cast out, to be delivered unto Satan, so far are they to be kept from all communion with CHRIST and with his Church. But none are to be admitted to this Sacrament, but such as outwardly stand in the faith, and thereby (unto the judgement of the Church) have fellowship with CHRIST and his members. The very action or Symbol yt self showeth this communion with CHRIST, and one with an other. 1. Corinth▪ 10. 16. and 12. 13. No sophistry can disjoin the mystery or signification from the outward elements and action, neither the communion from the participation in this action, so far as we may judge. 
1. Cor. 11.  As the unworthy receivers are guilty of the body and blood of the Lord, so the Church in admitting, administering unto, and communicating with them, is guilty of most high sacrilege and profanation of the holy things of God, especially they doing it wilfully and wittingly. Now than if they all communicate in this action, and this action delivered in this manner be sacrilege, how should they not all be guilty? Can any man here say that any of the Communicantes in this case toucheth not the sin, but the holy things of God, when first in this action they are all spiritually commingled and joined together, than the very action which they all do (as they do it) is most high sacrilege not a touching but an open, (if not a wilful) profanation of the holy things of God? Can th' authority of the Church excuse them before God? Or will it here excuse them to say they cannot do with it, because the power of the discipline is not in their hands? We have above showed that every member hath interest in the power of the Church▪ And that the power to receive in and to cast out belongeth to the whole Church, and not to the Presbytery or any particular member of the Church only: Neither yet these matters referred to the will or choice of the Church, but rules prescribed them whom and when to receive, whom and when to cast out. As upon public profession of faith and obedience with desire of joining, the Church cannot refuse but must receive, so upon public sin and obstinacy joined to the same, the Church must then cast out, and cannot retain without sin: Which sin becometh so much the more heinous when they do it wittingly & willingly, but most of all when obstinacy is added, when the Church will not be admonished, neither amend. Though every private member cannot excommunicate or reform the public actions of the Church, which are done contrary to the word, yet every private member may & aught to refrain such public actions, as they see to be contrary to the word, and to admonish the Church etc. And in so doing they depart not from the Church, neither withdraw from the Communion, so much as preserve the Church & the communion: Our fellowship must always be in the faith, out of the faith we may have no communion with man or Angel in known sin. They that depart from the faith depart from the Church, and break the communion. We may not follow a multitude or the mighty in evil. It behoveth every christian that receiveth to know what the action is he doth, to know what he receiveth and how he receiveth, to know by whom and with whom he receiveth. We say not now (as some in the idleness of their conceit conjecture) that we ought to examine and judge every one that communicateth: No it sufficeth us if they by outward profession stand still members, and remain not convict and impenitent in any open sin known to them and to the congregation. They must know that the Minister that delivereth is according to the outward rules (so far as they may judge) a lawful Minister of the Gospel, and that the communicantes by outward profession (so far as they can judge) stand in the faith; else can they not discern what the communion of the Church or the action they do, is. It will not suffice or excuse them to say they mourn and are grieved for the sins of the wicked with whom they communicate, and for the sin of them that should put them from the Sacrament, yea cast them out of the Church, and deliver them over unto Satan, for the humbling their flesh, and the preservation of others from the contagion of their sin, yea of the whole Church from the wrath of God. How should they be said to mourn for the sin of these wicked, with whom they feast and rejoice in this heavenly banquet? From whence all sorrow, and grief, and fear, & despair or doubt are banished, all tears wiped from their eyes, they being by this Symbol received to the communion of Christ's body and of all the joys which he possesseth, hath prepared & reserved for all those for whom he died etc., against whom layeth no accusation, no condemnation, no imputation of sin. Again, the mourners he speaketh of which were marked by the Angel Ezech. 9 did not only mourn but cry out against the sin of the time, yea they refrained the public worship & the Temple which was so wholly polluted and profaned, as is described in the 8. Chapter of the same prophesy, the fierce wrath of God powered forth upon the whole City and Sanctuary Chap. 9 The glory of God utterly departed from the Temple and City Chap. 11. But how should these that communicate & are commingled with these open wicked and unworthy, and participate and join in the sin and sacrilege of the ministry which they see and acknowledge, be said of those marked mourner's which refrained & cried out against the abominations of the time? Or how should these escape the vengeance of the destroyer? The seal of God wherewith all CHRIST'S servants are marked and known, is, That they that name the name GOD departed from iniquity. 2. Timoth. 2. 19 Revel. 14. They may not communicate with the sins of others, nor be drawn into the transgression of any of GOD'S commandments by an Angel from heaven. Gal. 1. No traditional writings of any man whosoever, can defend these errors which tend to the open & wilful profanation of the holy things of God, to the most dangerous contagion and infection of the whole Church, and to the high provocation of God's wrath against them all. What then hath this great clarck gained by this traditional divinity, save bewrayed his corrupt judgement & great ignorance of the truth of God, yea even of those principal actions whereof he professeth himself a Minister? What hath he obtained or endeavoured by all this discourse to prove, if not that all these profane multitudes and routs of all sorts of wicked may be received into and nourished in the Church as members, even with the holy pledges of CHRIST'S body & blood by this idolatrous and sacrilegious ministry (for so having already proved them we may pronounce them) made by themselves, labouring to justify & approve their Church, ministry, and ministration in this estate, and most severely to censure, blaspheme, and condemn all such as by the word of God reprove them, and for their obstinacy forsake them for the same, thus opening a wide door to all Atheism, wickedness, impiety, sacrilege, and bloody persecution, as by his next argument which he bringeth for a conclusion of this discourse appeareth; Which before we come unto, this for conclusion we insert & rest upon, That our Saviour CHRIST hath instituted, that of necessity there must be at the celebration of his last Supper a lawful Minister of the gospel according to the rules of CHRIST'S Testament to deliver, a faithful people by outward profession to receive, the pure elements commanded used, and that form of administration which he and his Apostles prescribed: That except all these concur, there is not the sacrament rightly delivered, neither may any christian communicate where he seethe any of these rules broken. So than if Mr. GIFFARD had thus approved his ministery, people, ministration by the rules of CHRIST'S Testament, and by the evidence, of God's word, he should more have persuaded & convinced us, 
Reu. 16. 13.  then by all this opprobry, blasphemy, and rage which he breatheth forth out of the mouth of that DRAGON, 
Prou. 26. 2.  all which now add unto his own, 
Deut. 18. 22  and not unto our judgements that fear not the curse causeless; 
Pro. 24. 24  neither yet the false Prophet's threats▪ whose custom it is to curse them that God blesseth, and to bless them that God curseth, to justify the wicked, and to condemn the just, Therefore shall he be an abomination both to God an men, as the Lord himself hath spoken. As to his bloody Argument drawn from th'execution of certain of SAUL his progeny, because King SAUL in his hypocritish and bloody zeal murdered the Gibeonites, which were yielded and made slaves unto them, 
josh. 4.  contrary to the will and commandment of God. Ihosh. 8. deuteronomy 20. 10. 
1 King. 9 20. 21.  Our innocency shallbe our defence, and his refutation. If we have committed or when we shall commit or consent unto any such crime, we refuse not the like judgement. In the mean time let all men judge with what equity or conscience this Caini●e could thus apply & enforce this example against us; And for conclusion, let any man by the word of God judge, whether we that reprove these their confuse parish assemblies consisting of all sorts of ignorant, profane, ungodly▪ people, worshipping God after an idolatrous manner, and living in all disorder & ungodliness etc., Or this mercenary sacrilegious Priest, that standeth a Minister to all these wicked, delivering the sacraments unto them and blessing them with the peace of God etc. do destroy & murder their souls. The scripture is plentiful in this point.   

THE THIRD PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION OR CAUSE OF OUR SEPARATION FROM their assemblies, is.  
FOR that they have a false antichristian ministry imposed upon them, retained with them, and maintained by them.  
AS we have already showed that the house of God which is his church, cannot be built or consist of any other than such chosen, precious living stones as God hath thereunto called, separated, appointed, namely such faithful obedient willing people as come under CHRIST'S conduct, and willingly submit to his government, and cannot consist of profane, wicked, ungodly, headstrong, disobedient multitudes, whereon the Whore is said to sit as upon many waters: So in like manner can this house, 
Hebr. 3.  this church, this people of CHRIST be built into none other order, 
Ephes. 4.  receive none other ministry and ordinances, than CHRIST the owner & builder of the house hath instituted & prescribed in his last will & testament. We may boldly affirm & conclude that flock which consisteth of all sorts of wild & unclean beasts, not to be the flock or shepefolde of CHRIST, in as much as these in this estate cannot of us be judged to be the sheep of CHRIST. We may also by the same undoubted reason affirm, that they which stand herds to these wild and unclean beasts, cannot be said the lords shepherds of his sheep & lambs. Of what sorts of people these their parish assemblies generally consist, how they have been gathered, built, stand, and walk in the faith & order of CHRIST, by that which is above written may partly appear, but much more shall to every single eye & heart (wherein is any light) upon the further examination of their present estate & life. That this Author and all the Priests of the time stand herds, administering the Sacraments etc., to these profane multitudes in this ignorance, confusion, and sin, after that idolatrous superstitious manner abovesaid for their hire or tithes, cannot be denied. What defence this Champion hath made for their public administration & worship, and how by never a word of God he hath justified any one of those manifold enormities & idolatries reckoned up unto him; As also how he hath approved the gathering and present estate of their Church, by the greatest apostasies, defections & sins of other Churches in other ages, and with what blasphemous doctrines tending to all Atheism and impiety, we are content to refer to the judgement of the godly readers. And now being come to the proof & defence of his own Ministry which he exerciseth, and of the whole Ministry of their Church, instead of CHRIST'S Testament he bringeth us forth a fable out of ESOPE of the ass in the lions skin, and at the first entrance into this discourse in the first page within the space of 24 lines he convinceth us with these arguments. That we are prompt & plentiful in false accusations & heretical opinions which must be admitted for reasons against their Church, worship, ministery. That we are desirous of glory, presumptuous, bold, rash, ignorant, not to be encountered with great learning: Sophisters, nay poor artificers and husbandmen are the eavenest matches to dispute with us: We have put on the Lion's skin and imagine that all learned men tremble at us, but they have espied our long cares. That we impudently slander and belie the learned, who disdain to deal with mad frenzy: That we are without all care what we speak. etc. Is it likely that this man hath either care or conscience what he saith, that through his whole book from the first to the last word thus raileth, inver●th, accuseth, blasphemeth? Are these the sweetest waters in his fountain, the best salt he can season us with? Or do the Ministers of the Church of England thus use to improve, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering & doctrine? Is this Mr. GIFFARDS' country divinity or university learning, or Courtly Chaplen-like behaviour? He hath a precedent what a goodly view Mr. SOME makes in his colours. If he lighted into some men's hands that would take pleasure to lay open his shame, Mr. SOME & his painter might give place in all railing and vituperie where this man should appear. But our purpose is not to meddle with his railings so much as his reasons, leaving him to answer for the one, and endeavouring ourselves to answer the other. Yet this we say, that if this be the course of those great learned the speaketh of, we had much rather be matched with such poor artificers and husbandmen as fear God (whom he despiseth) their with these great Clerks. Yea we had much rather that they should in disdain of our ignorance break their promise in denijng and refusing to confer with us, then in this manner grieve the spirit of God in us by such hellish writings as this book of GIFFARD, perverting the Scriptures, pleading for, defending, and iustifijng the throne of iniquity, together with all the enormities, idolatry, and abominations which flow from the same, railing, blaspheming, and accusing the truth, and the poor persecuted professors thereof, as he doth. Yet to satisfy the reader in this matter which he so confidently denieth, and urgeth us so vehemently to make some colourable show of, That if he had consulted with his learned brethren the forward Preachers, they would have counseled him rather to have used his discretion in the pulpit (where he might feign what error he lift, and then with the same breath confute it in our names) then by conference, but especially thus by writing to meddle with the defence of these defaults and exceptions taken against their Church, Ministry, Worship, etc., knowing that the more they are discussed and raved in, the more apparent & odious they will appear unto all men; especially when they are brought unto & examined by the light, 
These two were Mr. FLOOD & Mr. CHATTERTON.  which will forthwith show of what sort they are. 
These two were Mr. fen & Mr. EGERTON.  That these Preachers had taken this course amongst themselves we know certainly by a letter that two of the chief of them sent unto us, denying that conference which they had before promised, because we denied their Church and Ministry. After that, two of them being procured to our prison denied to deal with us concerning those exceptions we made against their Church & Ministry, alleging that they were forbidden by their brethren to deal with us in those matters. To be short, what ●lls can with any probalitie be conjectured to be the hindrance of the first company of Preachers that at the first sent unto us to know the causes of our dislike, promising either to assent, or to show unto us the causes why they could not, that they upon the sight of that little paper, (wherein we set down unto them the causes of our separation from these parish assemblies, as also what we purposed in our own assemblies) never as yet could be drawn to make any answer in writing or conference, if not that they perceived that they were neither able to defend their estate, neither yet had faith to leave it for fear of persecution & danger. And whatsoever this bold champion may pretend, we cannot be persuaded that ever the forward sort of Preachers (that sometime laboured reformation) ever gave their consents to this blasphemous book of his, except also together with the author thereof, they have made shipwreck of faith & good conscience, and be wholly apostatate & fallen from that small measure of grace & light they sometimes made show of▪ Neither shall those pontifical Prelates his Lords, their horned Clergy, or Romish associates the Civilianes and canonists to whom he is yielded & joined, give him any thanks in the end for all the pains he hath taken to defend their apostatical throne & proceedings: which these his writings are so far from defending & iustifijng as they manifest unto all men that they cannot be defended or justified:  
TO our present purpose in this 3. PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION, it remaineth that we now prove this Ministry of the Church of England to be false & antichristian. Which that it may the sooner be done we are to inquire what kind of ministry CHRIST hath instituted and left unto his Church? Of which sort if we find not these, then may we with assurance from Gods own word pronounce them false and antichristian. For as there is but one God, one CHRIST, one Spirit, so is there but one true Church, ministry ministration. CHRIST being ascended gave unto his Church apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, Teachers, Elders, Deacons, widows. 
Eph. 4.  The 3. first, Apostes, Prophets, Evangelists, being instituted but for a time, 
Rom. 12.  having finished their ministery, ceased. For the foundation being now fully laid, the word perfectly exhibited, the gospel throughlie and sufficiently confirmed and ratified, 
1 Corinth. 3  the whole frame of the building set up and erect, 
Hebr. 2.  and now a most perfect and absolute pattern left unto all Churches, 
2 Pet. 1.  to what purpose should there now be Apostles to lay the foundation, 
2 Timoth. 3  to give the word again, Prophets to ratify and confirm the same, 
Acts. 20. 33.  Evangelists to deliver and show the Apostles rules unto the Church? Besides that, the Lord hath evidently showed (by the ceasing of th'extraordinary callings and gifts unto these offices) that they are now perimplished and ceased, as might also by sundry other testimonies and direct scriptures be proved, if it were needful in so plain a point. Now then there remain by a perpetual decree these Offices to the ministry, government, and service of the Church. Pastors, Teachers, Elders, Deacons, Relievers. 
1 Corinth. 12  Unto these distinct offices, 
Acts. 14. 23  are fit and distinct members duly chosen and ordained by each several Congregation, 
1 Timoth. 3  upon due proof according to the manifestation of the spirit in each member so elect, 
Tit. 3.  according unto the rules prescribed in Christ's Testament; in which offices is required of them that they diligently and faithfully administer, 
1 Corin. 4. 2  which whilst they do, they are honoured, obeyed, 
1 Thes. 5. 12. 13.  provided for of the flock with all reverence, care, & love. Now let the ministry of the Church of England be compared unto and examined by these rules of Christ's Testament, 
1 Timo. 5. 17  in their office, entrance, administration, maintenance. In all which we before affirmed them to vary from the Testament of Christ, and to have no place or mention there, requiring of this Author some proof of his ministry in these points by the word of God. In stead whereof we have his bare affirmations to approve their ministry, and his most bitter railings to convince and persuade us after his accustomed manner, which evil either satisfy us or approve themselves to all men's consciences such as they would be thought to be. We had thought our demand herein had been so just and reasonable, as no true Church or Minister could or would have denied. And wonder that in this flourishing estate of their Church which over-floweth with so great learning, aboundeth with so many writers, that not one of them should undertake to approve the ministry of their Church directly, by the rules of God's word in their Office, Entrance, Administration, Maintenance. Wherbie they might justify themselves of such crimes whereof they are charged▪ convince their adversaries & all gainsayers, and put an end to these controversies and debates after a most christian and peaceable manner, much better beseeming the Gospel and the ministers thereof, than prisons, judgement seats, slanders, accusations, blasphemy, which hitherto have been their only Arguments. But now howsoever they be loath & will by no means be entreated or urged to this sober course & direct proof by writing, or unto any christian free conference where these matters might be discussed and decided by the word of God peaceably, Let us yet (seeing occasion is here administered, and as our present purpose will permit) show some causes of our dislike why we judge them not the true Ministry of the Gospel, by showing such apparnt discrepance, as may declare unto all men that they were never cast in that mould. And this but by a cursory & brief examination, leaving the more exact discussing & perfect demonstration of the forgery, abuses, and enormities of this Antichristian ministry, to the further diligence of others endued with greater measure of gifts and judgement.  
WE find the permanent offices which CHRIST hath instituted for the ministry of his Church few in number, easily recited, divided, and distinguished. The offices (as hath been said) are these, of the Pastor, Teacher, Elder, Deacon, Reliever. These are divided into Overseers (whom we call Bishop's Episcopoi) and into Deacons. 
Phil. 1. 1  The Overseers are again divided into teaching & governing Elders: 
A●ts. 20.  and into such Elders as only by office attend unto Government. 
R●m. 12. 8  Of the first sort are the Pastor and Teacher. 
1 T●●o. 5. 17  Of the second such Elders as are elect to the oversight & government of the Church. These offices are distinguished one from an other in their several functions by the Apostle Roma. 12. and in sundry other places of scripture. The Pastor to attend to exhortation. The Teacher to doctrine. 
Act. 6.  The Elder to government. The Deacon to collect and distribute the benevolence & contribution of the Saints. 
● Timoth. 5  The Relievers to attend to the sick, impotent etc. But the offices of the ministery of the Church of England we find so many & intricate, as are hard to be recited, divided, or distinguished, and require greater skill than I have thereunto. Yet (so my simple conceit preiudize not others of better judgement) for memory sake and to avoid prolixity, they may thus be divided and recited at once. First more generally into Reigning governing. 2. Collegiate or idle, and 3. Servile or mercenary. The Reigning or governing may be divided into 1. Bishops their assistants and substitutes. 2. Certain Commissioners and certain. 3. delegate Doctors etc. These Bishops may be divided in 1. archbishops. 2. Palatine Bishops, and. 3. ordinary Lord Bishops. Now the archbishops may be divided again into the .1. Primate Metropolitan of all England, and the 2. Metropolitan of the North. parts. The Raining ministery then of the Church of England as I suppose under correction and better information, may be summed into these offices of archbishops, Lord Bishops, chancellors, Commissaries, archdeacons, High Commissioners, Civil Doctors with their Courts and attendants, Advocates, Proctors, Registers, Notaries, Pursuivants, Somoners. The idle or Collegiate Ministry as I take it are partly in the Colleges of the Universities As Masters of houses, Precedents, Bowsers, Fellows: Or more generally according to their degrees Doctors of divinity, Bachelors of divinity, Masters of Art, Bachelors of art, Clerks. These hitherto without certain office, place, or charged in the Church. And partly in their Cathedral Churches. As L. Bishop, Deane, Subdeane, Prebendaries, Cannons, Peticannons, Gospelers, Pistelers, Singing men, Singing boys, Vergiers, Sextines. The servile Ministry is divided into these several offices. Of Parson, Vicar●, Curai●, Deacon, or half-Priest, Churchwarden, Sideemen, questmen, parish Clerk. But now to distinguish or describe all these offices according to their several orders and cannons, to show their original, process, and continuance in their several times, occasions, and circumstances, were not only a labour to me intricate and unachiveable, but to the reader tedious and unprofitable, as withdrawing them from the certain and unvariable rules of God's word, to the uncertain and variable reports of men. Sufficeth it therefore that we find not in all the book of God any such titles, names, dignities, offices, given or to be given to the Ministry of Christ's Gospel: 
Reu. 13. 1. & 17. 3.  but we find them rather those names of blasphemy written upon those heads of the Beast. For if it be blasphemy for any mortal man to receive, assume, or challenge those names, titles, dignities, or offices which are peculiar and proper to CHRIST'S sacred person alone, Then are these chief Ministers of the Church of England, these archbishops, & Lord Bishops highly guilty of blasphemy, that chalendge & assume unto themselves, some one of them to be the Prima●e of all the Bishops in England & Ireland, an other to be an Archbishop, a Metropolitan, others to be Lord Bishops, the least of these Anakims' to reign over I know not how many hundredth Churches & Bishops. That Christ is the only Primate and Arch-chiefe Bishop and Prince of Pastors the Apostle Peter giveth evident testimony 1 Epist. 5. Cap. 4. vers● as also the holy Ghost Hebr. 13. 20. That Christ is the only Lord Bishop every where appeareth in the scriptures, and that all other christian Bishops are but servants & fellows, is found john. 13. Luk. 22. Mat. 20. Mar. 10. where Christ himself in express words with vehement charges forbiddeth even his Apostles, I say not such blasphemous titles only, but all other wordly titles of honour, all civil jurisdiction and secular power over others, and such arrogancy and presumption one over an other as these pontifical Prelates and Lordly Bishops usurp, most directly, wittingly & willingly against the commandment of Christ. Which they think to put away & abrogate by a second law of the Prince & Parliament, who (they say) have cast these honours & titles upon them, and therefore neither can they refuse, neither may others blame them for this, except they show themselves disobedient to her Majesty's and enemies to the State. We will answer these their criminations of state matters at any time before competent judges. In the mean while let them answer us in good conscience whether they judge it lawful for Princes to give, or at any hand for themselves to receive such titles, dignities etc., as Christ hath so expressly & often forbidden them. And whether their holy Father the Pope might not so justify his exaltation and supremacy by the Emperor's donation, the confirmation of many Nations, States & Counsels through many ages. If it be here alleged that these titles which we so stand upon, are but civil accomplements given them by the Prince, but trifles, no matters of substance to prejudice their ministry, they being preachers of the word; Yet must they acknowledge them inhibited very severely & often by Christ's own mouth. And therefore they by this allegation lay the blame upon Christ that forbade them, and not upon us that hold them unlawful & intolerable in the ministry. Further, if they be merely civil, let them then answer why they are & how they may be thus joined to ecclesiastical persons & offices. And if they be such trifles, why then these grave Fathers these holy men so violently contend with, and bloodily persecute their brethren for them. And this also let them consider & acknowledge, that these trifles or titles they usurp are proved most execrable blasphemies, names written upon the heads of the Beast, and not upon the members or Minister of Christ. And in their best allegation, that they are directly contrary to the commandment of Christ, who prohibiteth his Ministers all such titles, howsoever Mr. Giffard allege against all conscience and truth that they exercise no Lordship over the faith and consciences of men: the untruth whereof shall hereafter appear; yet this Lordship they receive & exercise, even in the best consideration, is expressly contrary to the commandment of Christ, and such as no true Minister of the Gospel, either will or may receive, plead for, or justify.  
ANd now that we may come a little nearer their Ministry, it would be known what office these Lordly Prelates, these Primates, Metropalitanes, Arch & Lord Bishops exercise in the Church of Christ. For every Minister must be of necessity in some particular office. I speak not now of the offices they bear in the commonwealth: as to be Peres of the Realm, Lords of the Parliament, judges of civil causes in Courts, justices of the peace etc., but of their ecclesiastical offices, as being Bishops, whither they have any of the ord●narie and permanent offices, as Pastors, Teachers, Elders. Or of those extraordinary temporary offices which are now ceased of Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists. And sure by their magnificent stile, glorious titles, extraordinary power, irregular authority, and inordinate rule, I should rather judge than of these extraordinary offices, save that I find those wholly now ceased, not expedient or to be looked for, and also that th'estate, behaviour, and doings of those Bishop's accord not to those offices. First Apostles these Bishops are not in that they have no immediate caling from God, or confirmed by God unto that office: 
Mat. 28. 19  Neither do they execute it as Christ's Apostles did, 
Acts. 1.  they go not from place to place, from country to country, 
john. 20. 21 22.  to preach the Gospel, to call the people to the faith, to gather & plant Churches; Neither have they received such measure of grace, or can ratify and approve by such evident testimony, 
Math. 10.  power, and wonders the doctrines, 
Acts. 4. 30 & 5. 12.  rules, and ordinances which they deliver unto and impose upon their Churches, to be of God: 
1 Cor. 3. 11  Yet seeing they lay a new and an other foundation than the Apostles have laid, 
2 Cor. 11. 13.  deliver other doctrines, rules, and ordinances as appeareth by the whole ministry, worship, ministration, ordinances and government of their Church, than the Apostles have taught and left; seeing also they usurp a greater power and pre-eminence one over an other, One being a Primate, an other an Archbishope etc., than the Apostles did; We never reading of any Primate, Arch, or Lord Apostle: (Peter chair now not standing in England) They had need to confirm their offices, callings, doings, power by no les●e miracles & testimonies then the Apostles did; if they will have their ministry & doings allowed & received: 
2 T●es. 2. 9 10.  which if they should do and draw fire from heaven, yet ought we to believe & hold fast that perfect foundation which CHRIST'S Apostles have laid, 
Reu. 13. 14.  that authentic all-sufficient word which they have left, as an absolute pattern for all actions of the Church unto the world's end; and to hold them accursed, men or Angels that teach any thing besides that, or to vary from the same. 
Gal. 1.  Neither what signs or miracles soever they shall do, may we hold them Prophet's, seeing they persuade yea enforce to idolatry & apostasy, as by their public worship appeareth. 
Deut. 13.  And as to Evangelists that office is too mean & base for these fellows. 
1 Tim. 1. 2.  The Evangelists took their caling, 
Tit. 1. 4.  sending, and whole direction from the Apostles, neither swerved from the same in any thing, 
1 Cor. 4. 17.  but faithfully delivered to the Churches those rules they received, and assisted them in the practise thereof. 
Phil. 2. 22.  These men in that they have no such caling to their office, neither do so execute it, not caling the Church unto or helping them in, 
2 Tim. 4. 5.  but drawing them from & utterly forbidding them the practise of those rules & ordinances the Apostles left; teaching, bringing in, setting up, and enforcing their own or other human devices & ordinances upon the church in stead thereof; and that in such high & weighty matters as the bringing in a new & strange Ministry, Ministration, Worship, and Government. For all which causes & reasons & many other which might be drawn from the rules of CHRIST'S Testament, and their whole work and doings which in nothing accordeth to the true pattern, we must hold them false Apostles and Prophets, counterfeit Evangelists, deceitful worckmen & builders.  
Neither yet, if we but as fleightly examine them by & compare them unto the rules of Christ's Testament, shall we find them to execute any of the ordinary permanent offices of the Bishops belonging unto Christ's Church, as the Pastors, Teachers, Elders office. 
Act. 14. 23  A true christian Pastor ought to be chosen of some one peculiar flock, 
Tit. 1. 5.  where after due proof he is to be publicly ordained & received. 
Acts. 20. 21  Unto which peculiar flock he is bound by covenant to administer & attend. Neither doth his Pastoral duty, ministry, and charged extend to more flocks or Churches at one time then that one, whereof he is chosen Pastor: Neither may a true Pastor advance himself either in titles or power above or over other christian Pastors his fellow brethren; howsoever he have received a greater measure of gifts, by so much he ought to behave himself the more lowly, and to apply himself the more carefully & diligently to serve the Lord with the same, according to his pleasure & appointment within the limits of his caling; wherein if he behave himself faithfully he receiveth praise, if not, reproof & censure of the whole flock accordingly. But now these Arch and Lord Bishops neither have any certain ministry over or in any one peculiar flock, neither any such 〈…〉 by or in any one Congregation, but are elected either by the 〈◊〉 & College of the Dean & Chapter, or else by the Prince, consecrate, invested, enthronized, or instawled, with I know not how many popish rites, trincketes, ceremonies belonging thereunto; whose very ordinary attire is so popish, ridiculous, and fond, as they pass not in the streets without the wonderment & scorn of young and old. Their ministery also is not limited and tied to one certain office, or to one certain flock, but as they exercise sundry offices, so do they it over & in sundry Churches, preaching, administering the Sacraments, where and when they list of their pontifical authority, and ceasing again from preaching etc. at their own pleasures when & how long they list. Again some of them exerciseth absolute authority over all, no one of them but over many hindereth Churches & Ministers, over all causes and doctrines, to cite, summon, suspend, silence, excommunicate, absolve, emprison, ●equester, confiscate at their pleasure whom and wherefore they list without account or controlment, no not by the Prince's royal writs and Courts to which every soul ought to be subject. They impose upon all Churches and Ministers their own devices for the public worship & administration, stinting and limiting the Pastor what words to read and say, what scriptures to read on this and that day through the year. They limit and restrain the doctrine of the Pastor from speaking against any thing by public authority commanded. They determine and dispose of all the doctrines and causes of all Churches at their own will, no man so hardy to gai●e say or to call in question any thing they affirm, or to deny any thing they command or forbid. There is nothing judged error in the Church of ENGLAND, but what they judge to be error, be it never so gross, popish, blasphemous, nor any thing counted truth which they pronounce error, be it never so holy, sound, and warranted by God's word. The whole ministry, doctrine, public administration, causes and censures of the Church of ENGLAND, are wholly in their hands, to command, restrain or execute upon all persons, and they themselves subject to no reproof, liable to no censure. Now let any judge that knoweth what belongeth to the office, entrance, and administration of the Pastor's office, whether these Bishops possess this office, be rightly called and entered to the same, and faithfully administer & execute the same. The teacher's office for the reasons abovesaid they cannot hold or challenge, both in regard of the fastuous titles & inordinate power and authority which they usurp & exercise over all the ministery, even such as they call Pastors, and over all Churches, causes, censures etc., which can at no hand be joined or agree unto the christian Teachers office. As also for that they, their ministry, and office belongeth not to any one peculiar Congregation. The like reasons may be drawn from their Popish entrance and administration, seeing they take upon them to deliver the Sacraments, and attend not unto doctrine only or diligently, giving over & ceasing to preach when they list, neither submit the doctrines they teach to the censure & trial of other Prophets by the Scriptures. For all which reasons and sundry other, they cannot be said to have or exercise the christian Teachers office. Last of all, the office of governing Elders they have not, for all the same reasons; In that they are not chosen of & belong not unto any particular Congregation to which they should be bound by duty to attend. Neither ever did we read in all Christ's Testament of any Bishops or Ministers (setting aside those temporary offices of Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists that where chosen, did attend, or minister unto divers or more than one Congregation or office at one time. Certain rules being there given for their election, ordination, and administration of & in one Congregation, with manifold admonitions & exhortations to stir them up unto diligence, labour, and watchfulness in that office & place they are called unto, as a work enough for him that thinketh himself most able to discharged it. And sure most monstrous & impossible it were for one man faithfully to attend divers Congregations, Except they can also show that one shepherd at one & the same time can diligently feed & guide two or many flocks far distant in place, Or that one candle may be put into two candlesticks, and give light unto two several houses far distant asunder at one & the same instant. If the one be impossible, so is the other. Yet stand these men Bishops or Overseers not only to many Churches each one of them, But their Primate giveth, or rather selleth licences to other inferior Priests, some one of them to stand a Minister to two, yea peradventure to three several flocks. This is an usual matter and passeth by way of statute law amongst the Chapleins' & Doctors of the Church of England, who may have & be Non Resident some of them from two, some from three Congregations or benefices, especially all his Graceless Chaplains, by a singular prerogative. But to return again to our purpose, these Arch and Lord Bishops cannot be said to have this office of governing Elders, for that they profess to be Ministers of the word & Sacraments, which duty belongeth to the Pastor's office. And because they exercise absolute power over Pastors, Churches, and causes▪ to depose, excommunicate, absolve, and determine in their own sole name & power, which no true Elder Minister or member of Christ may do. Reason's also might be drawn from their sitting, chandging, aspiring to the richer & higher rooms. From their Princely Lordly flate, pomp, train, revenues, palaces wherein they live in all worldly excess, pleasure, idleness, to which things whilst they attend, it is impossible they should faithfully execute & discharged any ministry in the Church. From the apparent & odious sins of their persons & lives, that appear and break out in their conversation, which is most unchristian, fleshly, and unholy. As covetousness, oppression, extortion, open wrong doing, usury, ambition, pride, idleness, lovers of pleasure, such as cannot govern their wives, children, and families in the fear of God, sobriety, or common honesty, but nourish and bring them up in pride, vanity, idleness, superfluity, voluptuousness, gaining, chambering, and wantonness, yea peradventure vnchasti●g and that not unknown to the inselues, who also themselves are not all of them of the most chaste and temperate life, 
1 Tim. 3.  some of them being given to wine, strikers, sorcerers, blasphemers, 
〈…〉.  skorners, and deriders of the most holy exercise of the preaching of God's word, causing their counterfeight and natural fools openly in their own house at 〈…〉 feasts to make a ●ermon o● 〈◊〉 or fallie in the most high despite of God, and of his blessed ordinance. Not here to perticulate the sundry heresies contrary to the truth and blasphemies of the truth held amongst them; the least of which faults publicly known, are enough to disable the best of them from exercising any public ministry to the Lord in his Church, if we may believe the Apostle. To conclude, 
Math. 20. 25. 26.  this one reason (if there were no more) might show and prove them to be no christian bishops, in that they exercise some civil office or offices together with this their pretended ministry. 
Luk. 12. 14.  Which is not only expressly forbidden & utterly unlawful by the word of God, but also impossible for any man to perform both, or either of both faithfully whilst he keepeth both. God himself hath made two distinct and several offices, and appointed unto them two distinct & several persons for Ministers: It being no more lawful for a Bishop to execute the civil Magistrates office, then for the civil Magistrate to administer the Sacraments. What monstrous parsons than are they which thus confound & commingle in their own persons these two divers and distinct offices and powers? Might not they that assume both the sword into their hands, carry them across also in their cote armour, aswell as their holy Father the POPE? What a monstrous confusion and perturbation make they both in Church and common wealth herebie? disturbing the holy order that God himself hath set for the government both of the Church and common wealth in this world, removing yea utterly breaking down therbie all the limits and bounds which God hath set and established for all estates, degrees, offices, callings, actions, so that no man by this means either knoweth his duty, or orderly walketh within the bounds of his calling, whereby it is come to pass that the whole land over-floweth with all impiety, violence, cruelty and iniquity, as in the days of NO,  
Thus by all these reasons have we proved, and all that have not utterly made shipwreck of faith & good conscience, or that stand not vowed bond servants to their apostatical throne, must confess, That these Arch & Lord Bishops are no true christian Bishops according to the Gospel of CHRIST, neither have or exercise any lawful office or ministri of or in the Church of CHRIST. If then they be not members of that body belonging to that head CHRIST JESUS, it must needs follow that they, their offices, & ministry are false & antichristian, belonging to an other head, an other body, even Antichrist, and that whore the false Church his spouse. If their inordinate power and irregular ministry be found contrary to all the rules and ordinances of Christ's Testament, then can it not be of God, belong unto, or used in Christ's Church, or be blessed to the government or salvation of his people: Then must it needs be the power and throne of Satan given to the Beast, accursed, given to seduce, and to draw all the children of wrath to destruction. Neither shall Mr. Giffard or all the false Prophets belonging to their throne, be able to turn away or withstand those judgements and plagues which are powered out of the lords vial upon the throne of the Beast, or with their soft tongues to lick whole the wounds of the Beast, that are given with that two edged sword that proceedeth out of CHRIST'S mouth. It shall not help them though they rail and blaspheme and gnaw their tongues for grief. For their kingdom shall wax dark, and Antichrist shall consume & be abolished as he is revealed, 
2 Thes. 2. 8.  even by the same light: the Lord himself hath spoken it. How weak now & slender are Mr. Giffards' defences for these his Lords the Bishops. That the Bishops have not their caling, consecration, or power from the Pope, but from their Church. That they have by oath renounced the Pope's usurped power and tyranny. That they do not maintain or defend the religion and laws of Antichrist, but profess and advance the gospel of Christ, and by the lively word cut down all idolaitre, heresies, abominations. That they usurp not a Lordship over the faith and consciences of men, but their peculiar power is only in the administration of external discipline. Therefore we with manifest and wicked slander call the Bishop's Antichristian. If you demand the proof of all this, we refer you to Mr. Giffards' bare affirmation without any one reason in his learned answer to the Brownistes, Page. 75. If he were himself sometime of an other mind, you must think it was before he had so near friendship with, or was employed in such trusty services by his Lord of London. Who, as also his Lord's grace, must not be driven to prove every thing they affirm, that were enough to put young divines unto, their pontifical mouth is sufficient warrant to all the Churches in England. Yet I would of their courtesy they would give us their schismatics that cannot be so satisfied, leave to doubt (though we will not contend) whether their Caling, Consecration, and this their Power first came not from the Pope. For albeit we have heard that the offices of Provincial Bishops, Arch Bishops, metropolitans where almost when this general defection from the gospel so much foretold of began to break out and appear, long before the Pope obtained his Supremacy over all other Churches and Ministers: Yet might it be that this manner of their caling, solemn consecration, and large irregular power of his Lord's Grace & Lord Bishops sprung from their unholy Father the Pope. Who when he was enthronized by Satan, had received the Dragon's high commission, to be his Vicar general in earth, could not of his fatherhood but provide for these his natural children, and bestow them in his garrison Cities, as his tetrarchs, Lieutenants & Tribunes, with magnificent titles, privileges, power, and authority to rule in his name and absence, even as his own engraven image over all Realms, Countries, & Territories within their Father's dominions. For (as we have also credibly heard) there was never a Lord Archbishop or Lord Bishop with such titles, privileges, power, heard of before the Pope created them. Notwithstanding because we have these things but buy hearsay, and would be loath to affirm of things so unsure, we will content ourselves to have proved and showed the Arch Lord Bishops to be no true Ministers of the gospel and Church of CHRIST, and therefore of themselves antichristian, from whom or howsoever they rise it skilleth us not. Neither shall it avail them though they have broken their faith and schismed from the Pope, cast off his yoke, renounced his usurped power and tyranny, when they themselves are round to usurp, retain and exercise, if not the same, yet as antichristian & enormous a power as the Pope, retaining the same Courts▪ Officers, Cannons, constitutions, privileges over all Churches, Ministers, causes, doctrines, censures, they themselves not being subject to the censure of any Church, exercising their authority and commandements contrary unto and above all laws both of God and of their Prince; whose Royal Courts and writs are not of power to bail any one committed by the least of their hierarchy, assuming unto themselves both the sword, exercising together and at once both civil and ecclesiastical offices etc. How well they advance the Gospel of CHRIST, that blaspheme the same, and pronounce the rules, ordinances, and ministry thereof intolerable, and persecute all such as either speak against them, or for it, Let the tyrannous havoc they make in the common wealth of poor christians in the prisons of the land, show. How well by the lively word they cut down all idolatry, heresies, and popish abominations, let the service-book and public worship of their Church, show. Which whilst with a strong hand they obtrude upon every conscience, as also impose upon the Church, is not this to tyrannize and exercise a Lordship over the faith and conscience? Or (to speak as he doth) is this nothing but to execute the external discipline, to make and impose a new liturgy for the whole administration of the Church? Or is it likely that this marked Minister of ANTICHRIST knew what the outward government of CHRIST in his Church meaneth, that saith it concerneth not the conscience? Is there any more dreadful or reverend action on earth amongst men, than the judgements of CHRIST in his Church, which are all most holy and true? Or do not these concern the conscience? Doth not every action of which there are such certain laws set by CHRIST himself, nearly concern the conscience to do it according to the same? when the least abuse, neglect, or swerving from the rule even in the least circumstance that is enjoined in the least censure doth so deface the action, is so offensive & prejudicial, do not those actions which are done for the salvation of souls, 
M●th. 18.  that are said to bind in heaven, not concern the conscience? Or do not those rules which are given for the direction and preservation of the public communion of the whole Church, 
1. Corinth▪ 5.  and private conversation of every member thereof (without the observation of which rules there can be no order, no duty either public or private, no holy walking in any caling kept) concern the conscience? Except Mr. Giffard can imagine such a Congregation and such members thereof, as either never sin, and so need no watching over, admonition, reproof, Or else such a Church and members thereof as make no conscience of any thing, as when they sin will not amend, will not hear admonition, or suffer reproof, which is the means given of God to bring them to amendment. Yet Mr. Giffard maketh this holy outward government of CHRIST over and in his Church not to concern the conscience; the miserable divines of this age, not to be of necessity to the being and preservation of a Church; the blasphemous Bishops of this land, not to be a thing tolerable, with many other reproachful blasphemies of the same, which are not of any christian almost to be heard or repeated, much less pronounced and defended. 
Math. 21.  These husbandmen are they that cast the Son and heir out of the vinyeard, 
Luk. 19 14.  that will not have him reign over them, but take the regiment into their own hands, devising and erecting a new form of government unto the Church, as these their popish Courts, Cannons, Customs, Officers declare, and persecuting with all hostility and tyranny all such as plead for Christ's government, and will not subject their bodies and souls unto their antichristian yoke. But yet for all this they exercise no Lordship over the faith and conscience, though they usurp, exercise, and impose this strange ministry, ministration, and government in and over the Church. All this saith Mr. Giffard is but th'administration of exernal discipline, and concerneth not the conscience, (especially if it be seared with a hot Iron as Mr. Giffard is.) Wherefore we do impudently and wickedly slander when we therefore conclude that the Bishops be antichristian, and whosoever is ordained by them, hath his ministry from Antichrist and from the Devil. What kind of ministry your Lord Bishop's exercise, and authority they usurp, by that which is already written the reader may judge, or at least hath a direct way showed further to examine: What kind of rule they keep or (as you call it) discipline they execute, remaineth to be tried in the fourth principal transgression: Where if you make not a better defence for it then you have done for their Ministry and ministration, they are all like to prove (as we have affirmed them) strange, false, forged, antichristian, such as belong not unto and cannot be exercised in any christian Church: and then let Mr. Giffard see whether that grievous conclusion will follow and fall upon the men upon whom the mark of the Beast is sound, that ministry which is ordained by, proceeded from, and standeth under the throne of these antichristian Bishops. In the mean while let us in a very few words consider of the rest of the ministery in the Church of England in their order.  
WE would gladly learn of him what office in the Church of God, Chancellors and Commissaries, may be said to exercise, for we confess that in Christ's Testament we never read of their names or offices: they are strangers there, and we in all the world know not from whence they came or who brought them into the Church, if not their Father the Pope, or durst there retain them, but these his children & successors the bishops. A large power they have and exercise over all parish Churches their Ministers and Members, to keep a judicial Court, to cite, convent, try, punish by mu● ct, judge, imprison absolve, purge, not only for ecclesiastical causes as the neglect of their ceremonies and trinkets, and for not duly reading and observing their injunctions & service-book, but also for civil causes, yea criminatory and judicial causes, such as by the law of God deserve death, and only belong to the Princes royal authority, to whom therefore God hath committed his sword: Whose judgement seat & authority for any private person to usurp, is judged rebellion both by the law of God and of this land. For all that take the sword shall die in the sword Math. 26. 52. Again these chancellors and Commissaries are Civilians (lay men as they call them) & not Priests, therefore we marvel how they came to exercise such an high ministry over and in the Church.  
The same we say of their other delegate civil Doctors of their Courts & train of Advocates, Proctors, Registers etc. We find in the Testament of Christ no mention, in the Church of Christ no use of such Offices, Officers, Courts, to decide their controversies, to execute their censures & judgements. These handle both ecclesiastical and civil causes mixtlie, after a most corrupt and litigious manner, amongst whom all things are venal in their Courts etc., whereof in due place: sufficeth it here to find them in name, office, and use counterfeit, forged, false, without mention or warrant in God's word, such as not Christ but Antichrist devised & brought in.  
As to the persons in their high commission they are of two sorts, chiefly ecclesiastical, and partly (for countenance and fashion sake) civil; Of the ecclesiastical we have above entreated. Neither find we that any civil person may exercise any ecclesiastical office or function: as to oversee so many Churches, to decide and determine ecclesiastical causes, or to execute the censures of the Church, as by way of office or by virtue of any human commission, especially after that ungodly manner, which is in all things so contrary to the order Christ hath instituted, so contrary to the faith, power, and liberty of Christ's Church, as were not hard to show if we should examine their proceedings by the rules of God's word. And great ruth it is that so noble and honourable personages should be so highly abused by these wicked Bishops. The Lord in mercy show them their deceits, the error and danger of their ways.  
Yet of this governing ministry remaineth the Arch head Deacon of the Church of England to be considered of, who is no small officer of this Church, having and keeping his solemn judicial Court, Synod, and proceedings in such ecclesiastical causes as fall within his consideration, with absolute power in his own name also to cite, summon, judge, and punish all such parish Churches with their Parsons and Ministers as fall within his limits. To impose tasks upon Pastors, what scriptures to read privately every day, what to con by heart, and to take account of them at his Synods accordingly. This Archdeacon also (if such be his learning that he can) may administer the word and Sacraments, and have a benefice or two for need. Howsoever, he may plead and boast of his antiquity aswell as the Archbishop, and of the great cause of his erection and necessary use of his office etc. Yet seeing we find no mention of his name, or use of his office, in all the Testament of CHRIST, seeing we find there no such Head archdeacons with such stately Courts and absolute iutisdiction, and that not over many Deacons but many of their Pastors, yea many whole Churches, we must, or rather the Lord hath given the same sentence of them, that is given of their fellows abovesaid, That they are not the ordinance or ministry of CHRIST, but of Antichrist, even the heads and limbs of that Beast, that willbe held within no limits or bounds, in no order or callings, but break, corrupt, and confound all laws, bounds order, 
Colloss. 18. ●  and offices as they lust. CHRIST himself is the only head of all his Ministers, 
1 Cor. 12. 27  whether Pastors, Teachers, Deacons etc., and they again his members of their part. 
Acts. 6.  The christian Deacon is to attend to the faithful collection and distribution of the benevolence of the Saints, 
Rom. 12. 8.  and not to such Court-keeping over the Church, 
1 Tim. 3.  ministry, and Saints: He is to attend in his function to that peculiar flock whereof he is chosen a Deacon, and not in this manner to intrude and encroach upon many Churches. A christian Deacon is to keep himself within the bounds of his own office in sobriety, and not to intermeddle with the Pastor's office also, with the ministration of the word and sacraments: yea to exalt himself and usurp power and jurisdiction over his superiors, not only over many Pastors, but over many whole Churches. Thus have we taken a superficial view, or rather as it were a sudden blush of the reigning ministery of the Church of England, leaving the further investigation and demonstration of the manifold deformities thereof to their further diligence, to whom God hath given greater knowledge and opportunity, leaving place also unto Mr. GIFFARD or any of that false hierarchy to make defence and justification of these points wherein they are here charged by the word of God. Which if they can do, then let them be held excused, and us justly charged with impudent and wicked slander. In the mean while I haste to the second sort of their Ministry.  
THe next sort of the ministry of the Church of England is the Collegiate or idle Ministry, which may be divided, or rather distinguished (because sometimes they are mixed & joined, one man being a master of a College and a Dean, a fellow of a house & a Prebend, and each of them have a Parsonage or two for a need) into these two kinds, Academical and Cathedral, The third sort, the Monastical, being by the hand of God and the Magistrates sword cut off & suppressed. These Academical Divines live, have their education & degrees in the Colleges, halls, and Cells of the two Universities, The original corrupt customs & use of which places, it is not my purpose here to discourse; Neither indeed have I skill aright to discuss whither and how they sprang from the Heathens, or from the Papists. Only this I dare affirm, that from the Book of God they never dirived these their Colleges, Schools, Hales, Orders, Degrees, Vows, Customs, Ceremonies, Attires, that I say not their Arts, Authors, exercise, and use of their learn, disputations, commencements etc. But as they have received them else where, so have they ever belonged to an other head and kingdom, and can by no means (in this estate they now stand & have time out of mind continued) be made to accord to the Gospel and kingdom of CHRIST, whereof these University Divines have ever been the professed and most bitter enemies, furnishing antichrist's host in all the rooms and places, even from the POPE'S chair, to the parish priests pulpit or pew, with fresh servitors continually, corrupting the pure fountains, and perverting the text itself with their gloss, paraphrases, notes, figures etc., fight with their school learning, vain arts, philosophy, rhetoric, and logic against the truth and servants of God, striving herebie to uphold Antichrist's ruinous kingdom and abominable wares, which these marchantmen set to sale for gains, as we by present experience see (now their portion and idle monastical life, beginneth but even a little to be reproved by the light & power of the Gospel) how these crastes-men these University Clerks rage and take on, and with their school learning seek to turn away the evident truth of God, to colour and plead for all the abomination & sin of the times, to heal the wound & uphold the throne of the Beast, to rend, reproach, and blaspheme such as speak and witness against it, as their vituperious, unchristian, and erroneous Books which they daily publish, declare. Neither is their education and learning (if they be duly examined) such as is required in the holy ministery of CHRIST. All of them (as is said) being nourished even from their Cradles with the milk of superstition, instructed in the Schools of heathen vanity, brought up in the Colleges of more the monkish idleness, and disorder, exercised in vain and curious arts, whose divinity is by tradition etc. The truth of these things Mr. GIFFARD not being able to gainsay, seeketh to shoffle off with a bold boasting chalendg against men unto himself unknown, upon the dispense of bearing the shame, if he find not in the universities many Bachelors of Art far exceeding in the knowledge of the liberal arts, the 3. tongues Hebreaw, Greek & Latin, or in sound judgement of divinity even the principal Masters of Brownisme; which if it could in so few years be obtained with more than monkish idleness, then may the Brownistes in some thing be believed. First we give him to weite that there are of those he calleth Brownistes, sond●ie of greater continuance, and that have as high degree in those schools with as high commendation as himself, although they boast not of such things whereof they ought to be ashamed. Then that there are as many of his brethren the monks, that think themselves as skilful as himself, or the greatest Clerk in the university. But now in all this what will our ignorance help him, or their store of learning show, that they have not been and are not thus imitiate and brought up. In their grammar schools it cannot be denied, but they learned and learn the latin tongue from the most heathenish and profane authors, lascivious Poets etc., which are allowed with the privilege of the Church of ENGLAND as most christian rudiments to be taught the youth in the public schools. When they have passed all those forms, and can both say much of those authors by heart and use their phrase, then are they sent to the University to learn the arts, and to be instructed in philosophy etc.▪ hitherto it cannot be denied but heathenism and such execrable idolatry as is found in those authors, is written & engraven upon the tables of their hair, and filled upon their tongue even from their infancy. Well, and when they are come to the University, there are they first salted as they call it in their College, and matriculate in the public schools, solemnly sworn upon the Proctor's book to keep their mother's statutes and secrets, and not to reveal her mysteries or teach her arts anie where but in the University. Then are they instructed both publicly and privately in Logic & Rhetoric in the Elenches and Topickes, in the tropes and figures of all kinds; wherein they must be perfect, for these arts are of special use unto them, and to serve at all assays. Then proceed they to philosophy, & there Aristotele is Autos eipe amongst them, out of whose mouth and writings they fetch their positions & axioms, definitions, aphorisms, distinctions etc. out of his Ethics, Econonickes, and pollitickes they faith the order & government of their manners, private estates, and common wealth. He yet further instructeth them of the Soul & of the world in large & special books, Of the heaven of natural & supernatural things, of Nature, Fortune, the eternity of the world, and perpetuity of all the creatures in their kind in Specie, of the regions of the air and several things in them contained, the Meteores &c. there learn they the causes of the rainbow, the making of the winds, clouds, and of the whole sky, far otherwise then is set down in the Genesis. Yet leadeth he them higher and showeth them the celestial spheres, planets, stars, quintessences even from the Moon to their Caelum crystallinum empiraeum and their Primum Mobile, with their several places, dimensurations, motions, and Motors: yea yet learn they more secret things with their constellations, radiations, influence & predomination according to their signs, houses, oppositions, aspects, eclipses etc. whereby most strange and wonderful things are prognosticate and foretold concerning the weather and ceasons of the year, the estate of kingdoms, the diseases & dangers to come etc.: concerning nativities & times of death (commonly called fortunes) concerning things to come or things past, stolen, lost, found etc. These things it were frenzy if not blasphemy to call vain and curious arts. Mr. GIFFARD would never bear it at the hands of such blind schismatics (whose bane such deipe learning is) seeing these sciences are vulgarly taught, studied, practised, allowed, and maintained not only in the universities but of the whole Church of ENGLAND, as by their yearly prognostications every where to be sold, is to be seen. These studies & arts we may not call perierga Curious, because Mr. GIFFARD saith Luke speaketh only of conjuration Act. 19 But let him approve these lawful by the scriptures, and surely I will gladly confess mine ignorance & sin in caling these studies and arts profane, curious, unfit for a christian, much more for a Minister of the Church. Otherwise let not any through mine unskilfulness (who peradventure repeat not aright or in due place the terms of these arts, as having either forgotten them through long discontynuance, or may be, never learned them aright) take occasion either to carp at me therefore, or especially to think the better of these vain and curious, yea unlawful and unchristian arts and studies, which have not only no warrant in God's word, but are directly contrary unto and expressly forbidden in the same, as were not hard to show and prove, if the subject were not to large, and should not make to wide a Parenthesis in this treatise, and draw it out to a greater length than I would. I will not therefore stand here to discuss their philosophical problems, paradoxes, axioms, or several sentences and opinions, which are authentical and currant amongst them, how evil they agree to the word of God: Or to show how far these curious inquisitors, these starr-gazers, astrologians, calcars, wisardes, divines exceed the bounds of faith and sobriety, and pass the limits of Gods revealed will: Or whether they may wander by these heathenish or devilish opinions of the heavens, stars, and their revolutions, influence etc. Motors, Demons, or Spirits, and how near this approacheth to conjuration: Or to show how far they are suffered to proceed, yea profess and practise in these devilish arts: Let the books (that I charged no persons) which are commonly bought and studied in the Universities, and in all other parts of the realm without controlment, show. Neither will I here proceed to repeat their other vain, curious, fond, trifling and vile arts, and studies, which were endless. Only in this place I must here add unto those public professed arts above recited, the study of all heathen and profane histories, of all ages, nations, persons, wherein they must of necessity be prompt and expert; as from those fountains to draw their examples and platforms of manners and the government of sta●es; as from whence to fetch the chief ornaments of their stile, orations, sermons, Books, to exemplify, illustrate, prove or improve: yea as whereby to open and expound the Scriptures both of the old and new Testament, chiefly the old Prophets, without which they cannot be understood, but especially Esai and Daniel. As to Rethorcik and Logic they are so necessary, as without which it is impossible to understand or divide any part of the scripture aright; as without which they cannot understand or declare to the people by what trope or figure, by what form of argument or Syllogism the holy Ghost speaketh. In these arts and studies are these Academical divines or rather Peripatetic Philosophers trained and exercised. In these they must needs spend 7. of their first years at the least, else should they be unfit to take those degrees of Bachelor and Mr. of Art, or to make that public profession they do of the arts at their Commencements. In these arts and studies when they are once a little exercised and instructed that they begin to perceive the grounds and method thereof, then are they trained both publicly and privately to defend or oppose against some of these axioms or positions, both by way of oration & argument in their Sophisms and disputations, and therein being approved (or at the least allowed) they then take the first degree of the schools, and commence Bachelors of Art, and have as ensigns of their degree & knowledge, special attire and furniture assigned them to be known from other common scholars; as the square Cap, the trunk gown, the hood of one shoulder, the habit etc., which they must wear. Afterward having spent more than thee years in study on these arts, and having done their public acts progradu, them they commence Masters of the said Arts; and are again solemnly sworn and made Regent's and Lectorers of their schools, and sit, read, and dispute of the same arts publicly in a solemn high seat, pulpit, or chair for orations, as also read private lectures thereof in their Colleges. Now I would here by the way know of Mr. Giff. what time and leisure a Bachelor of art that continueth in the University and proceedeth in those orders and degrees can have, to study Divinity, or to grow so prompt in the knowledge, judgement, and exercise thereof, as he dare engage his credit he shallbe found far to pass therein such as in their University have been allowed publicly to preach, and of the Bishops been made full Ministers. But to our purpose; when these clerks are thus instituted and furnished with these liberal sciences, and this ground worek thoroughly laid, them may they in good time proceed to the study of Divinity (as they call it) which is set out unto them in great volumes & infinite books of men's writings both old and new, where they have such variety of Paraphrases, Commentaries, Common places, Catachises etc. (Not to trouble them at the first with the primitive histories, Doctors, Counsels) as they may in short space (if they study hard) become pretty divines, and be able to show their authors judgement, yea (through the help of rhetoric and a good memory) to make a Sermon an hour long: Always carefully provided that they utter no more, then that they have read in some allowed author, having the privilege of the Church of England, and presume not either to understand the text otherwise then their authors interpret it, or to add one note of their own observation, for that (how consonant soever to the truth) were great presumption and rashness. Neither may they over▪ far apply or enforce the judgement of their Authors against any present enormity established by authority in the Church of England, for that were intolerable against the peace of the Church, yea seditious against the Magistrate's authority etc. Thus whilst these Divines are held within these limits of modesty and sobriety, and continue with their Mother the University, they ma●e in due time set up their bills of challenge upon the school doors, that they mean to dispute upon such and such questions of Divinity, and to do their Acts progradu. Which being dispatched either in taenebris or in Luce, then are they fit for the Commencement to be made Bachelors of Divinity. In like manner against that day must such of them as have before passed all these degrees, and now are fit to proceed Doctors of Divinity do their acts in the public schools accordingly in these Divinity disputations s●rmons ad clarum etc. And against this solemn Commencement must especial choice be made of those that are to commence Bachelors and Doctors of Divinity to keep the public acts that day. And these for their further credits o●ten times will undertake to defend against all comme●s such Propositions as are most odious to all men in whom is any light, conscience, knowledge, or fear of God. As that it is lawful for one man to have more benefices and flocks to attend then one at one time. That it is lawful to be a non resident, to hue from his flock whereof he taketh charged. That the unpreaching Ministers are true and lawful Pastors, and the Sacraments by them delivered true and holy Sacraments. That Christ's outward government in his Church, practised and set down by his Apostles, is not of necessity or perpetual, but variable and arbitrable at the will of men, according to times, estates etc. These and such like, these Graduates publish and defend, the Vicechancelour and whole senate of the University conclude and confirm, as catholic orthodox and most sound, rejecting whatsoever Scriptures or reasons shall by these comical disputers either University Doctors and Divines, be brought against them. Well, unto this famous Act are these Commencers solemnly brought in their several attires and arrays, in their skal●t gowns, hoods, habits, caps, tippitts etc., with the Bedells' proclayminge and carrying staves and maces before them, with a great troop of Graduate's and Clerks following them. And thus they march thorough the streets to the place appointed and prepared for these prizes, where they have their sticklers and moderators ready to rescue, when they are in any distress, and where their adversaries fight bookie, being of their own confederacy. Where it is not lawful for any that will to oppose, or to speak for the truth of God. Neither are these questions discussed in the english tongue before those multitudes of people and strangers, but in the latin tongue after their syllogistical and romish manner, lest the folly of these Prophets should be laid open unto all men, and these gamesters be hissed off the Stage by the people. Thus, though with many other trifling ceremonies and circumstances than I either can, or care to recite, are these academical divines advanced to their degrees. Which Degrees, 〈◊〉, ceremonies, orders, oaths, vo●●s, manner of disputations etc., how consonant they are to the ministry of Christ by the Apostles rules, let Mr. Giffard or those learned Divines approve by Christ's Testament, as it standeth them upon, that bring them in and exercise them in the Church. For ourselves we protest we never there read or heard of any such: and therefore cannot but think them fond, strange, and antichristian, such as no way belong to, or beseem the Ministry of CHRIST, neither are necessary or tolerable in Christ's Church. Thus even by this very brief and insufficient recital of but some of their arts, studies, orders, degrees etc. I hope this assertion will not prove so false or incredible. That the learned ministry of the Church of England is nourished even from their cradles with the milk of superstition, instructed in the schools of heathen vanity, brought up in the colleges of more than monckish idleness and disorder.  
For of such kind of societies and Colleges of Ministers & clarks, to live together after this monastical manner, we never read in the whole Book of God. How like they are to the schools of the Prophets at Naioth, Rama, jericho let their arts, studies, vows, customs, orders, ceremonies, degrees, disputations, exercises etc., declare. And as to the holy exercise of prophecy spoken of in the new Testament; it belonged unto and always was exercised in some christian Congregation, in a more holy, reverent, and free manner, and not after those heathenish popish customs abovesaid. We in CHRIST'S Testament never read of such a monacticall ministry so withdrawn and sequestered from any particular Congregation, office, charged, and function, as these University divines and Ministers are in their Colleges, halls, Cells: Where they must needs live in idleness and disorder, that are thus licentiate and dissolute, that willbe held within no christian bonds or order. We never read in CHRIST'S Testament of any such societies or Ministers, that lived in no particular Congregation, that were called to no particular office, or flock, that live idly, professing to be Mistress and yet execute no certain ministry or function. When Mr. Giff. shall directly prove by the scriptures these things to be lawful, then so far forth we shall allow of these University Divines these Collegiate Ministers: And the rather if he also approve by God's word their worship in their service-book: And last of all (not to cumber him with their manifold other superstitious customs, Commemorations etc.,) if he can show it to be lawful for any Minister or christian to join unto and live in any such College, society, or fellowship, where Gods holy ordinance of honest marriage is by express law forbidden all the fellows and scholars of these Colleges, they being no longer to remain in that society than they live unmarried, I say not now chastely: For how possible or likely that is, for so many young men in the flower of their youth and prime of their strength, especially being nuzzled in such heathen vanity, prophannes, vainglory, curiosity, superstition, disorder, dissoluteness, and (as is said) contempt of God's ordinances, let any judge; yea let the scripture yt self judge: where God showeth the reward of these sins, how he therefore giveth them up to the lusts of their own hearts, unto uncleanness, to shameful lusts contrary to nature to work filthiness, 
Rom. 1. 24  and to dishonour their own bodies amongst themselves etc. And so until some of them can justify this their life, orders, customs, vows, and proceedings of these Academical divines in their schools and Colleges, we must number & leave them with their brethren and sisters the Monks, Friars, Nuns etc., under God's fearful judgements, utterly in this estate unfit for the ministry or Church of Christ.  
Yet would I not here, that any should deem or suppose that we condemn any lawful arts or necessary sciences, any holy exercises, or schools of institution: And so do labour to bring in barbarism, as Mr. Giffard Mr. Some and others have given out. No we are so far from it, as we blame these Universities, Colleges, and Schools for their heathen, profane, superstitious, unchristian societies, disorders, customs, ceremonies, for their vain, curious, unlawful arts & studies, and their manner of teaching & exercising them etc. We desire with our whole hearts, that the tongues and other godly arts were taught, not in the Universities or a few places only, but in all places where an established Church is, at the least in every City of the land. Yet this indeed we hold, That every christian man ought to have his abiding & dwelling, and to bring up his children in some such place where a christian Congregation is, and that all schools of learning ought to be kept in such places where both teachers and scholars may be under the holy government and censures of Christ in his Church, and may live and be kept in holy order. Then, that the arts and sciences which are thus taught or studied, be not vain, curious, or unlawful, but necessary & godly. thirdly, that they be not taught, exercised, or practised after any profane, vainglorious, or superstitious manner, but in all sobriety, modesty, and in the fear of God. To these few rules if their Universities, Colleges, Schools were reform, then should they not be as they now are the seminaries of Antichrist, the bane of the Church, the corruption of all the youth in the land: But than should they be (that which they now pretend) the schools of all godly learning to garnish the Church, to furnish the common wealth with fit and virtuous men for every place, office, and estate.  
LEt us now proceed to the other sort of this Collegiate idle ministry of the Church of England, Which are these Cathedral Abbay lubbers, These L. Bishops, Deans, Subdeanes, Prebends, Cannons etc., as in their catalogue: who live together like Monks in their Cloisters & cells, adjoined & annexed unto some Cathedral Church, within which precincts they are ●edd & stalled up to intent the divine service of the said Cathedral, ●at certain hours of the day limited, every one in his several array, ministerial vestures, surplices, copes, vestiments, hoods, tippets, caps, rochets etc., according to their several office, place, and degree, some singing, some piping, some reading, some praijng, some pisteling, some gospeling, some preaching, some administering the sacraments etc., Of whose offices, ceremonies, rites orders, customs, severally to entreat, is not my purpose; It sufficeth me that I find not any such Cathedrals, Cloisters, Societies, Offices; Orders, Ceremonies, Worship etc., in all the book of God, and therefore I dare pronounce them Antichristian, such as God will not be pleased or served with in his Church.  
Let not Mr. Deane under the visard of a christian name and office think to escape, for when we bring him to the light, we find him but a counterfeight, having neither the office nor ministration of a christian Deacon. The christian Deacons office is faithfully to collect and distribute the alms and contribution of the Church. But these Cathedral Deans feed themselves & their troops, I say not of the weekly alms of their Church (for that they neither gather, neither would it suffice the tenth part of their pomp) but of the Lordships, lands, and fees of their Church; lying loitering in their stately palaces, and not distributing to the poor of that Congregation according to th'appointment of the Elders and the Church. A christian Deacon keepeth himself within the limits of the office he is called unto, and doth not intermeddle with th'execution of their offices which belong not unto him, as the administration of the word and sacraments etc.: But these Cathedral Deacons take upon them the ministry of the word and sacraments, many of them having personages beside their deanery; And having been Pastors before, yet for living and promotions sake, are not ashamed to go back to the Deacons Office, or to retain both offices. Neither doth the christian Deacon usurp such place, pre-eminence, and dignity in the Church to sit in one of the chief rooms with his velvet quishon, clo●h of estate, or be brought to his place with a silver mace before him. To conclude, these Cathedral Popish Deans have nothing common or like to a christian Deacon, either in office, caling to their office, administration of their office, or place where they administer. Therefore what titles soever they carry, or pretextes they make, we may affirm them to be imps of Antichrist, to belong to his spouse and throne, the false Church: And not to be those holy Ministers, those christian Deacons, which CHP●IST hath instituted to his Church.  
Of Subdeanes or their office we read not in CHRIST'S Testament. And as to those idle bellies those Prebends, we know not what to make of them: Ministers of this Church, yea full Priests they should be, in that they are bound to make. 4. sermons in the year in their Cathedral: yet are some of them Civilians (as they term them) lay Persons. But it is no novelty in the Church of ENGLAND, For Ecclesiastical Ministers to exercise civil offices, and likewise for civil persons to usurp & possess offices in the Church, both of government, as in their Courts abovesaid, and of the ministry of the word & sacraments, as Prebends, Parsonages, and those not impropriate etc. Of such Monkish secluding and gathering the Ministers of their Church into these Colleges, halls, Cloisters we have already spoken. As also of their idolatrous and false worship which they exercise: Of the several rites & ceremonies that these stalled bulls use therein, here to discourse, were long & tedious: Or to stand to refute the unlawfulness of these Mother Cathedral Churches, where Satan's throne is, wherein sit his lieutenants these Arch & Lord Bishops, wherein are the Colleges of these idolatrous Priests & loiterers, whose very names being but recited, & the light of the gospel being but brought to their College & Cloister doors, is enough to discover them of what stamp and brood they are. Yea let this light of the Gospel be brought to the trial of their ministry & ministration, though nothing be said to them, but they only put to approve themselves by God's word, you shall see them discover themselves of what kingdom & spirit they are, defending themselves with their nails & tongues, smiting all such as thus call their doings into this question with the fist of wickedness, and with the tongue of reproach, as by their prisons & books is to be seen; The one being full of poor persecuted christians in great distress and misery, without any judgement or help by law, without any equity, mercy, or compassion showed; The other being full even in every leaf, yea almost in every line of wicked slanders, accusations, suggestions, blasphemies against these faithful servants of CHRIST their adversaries. Not approving their ministry, worship, and proceedings directly by any one place of scripture, though they be never so much urged thereunto. But if they have no better defence, their kingdom shallbe left unto them desolate, as their brethren the L. Abbots, monks, Friars, and nuns are. All which might aswell (for any thing I can fee, or they can say) have been reserved, reform, and tied to the saijng over this service book as these, all being alike without warrant in God's word, and therefore detestable & accursed.  
IT now remaineth that we take like sudden view of the third sort, the servile ministry of the Church of England; namely these Parsons, vicars, Curates, Hirelings, Preachers, Deacons. These were blamed to Mr. Giffard to carry strange & antichristian Names & Offices, also to have as strange & antichristian an entrance unto their office & administration in their office, as also that their support & maintenance is not such, as belongeth to the ministry of the Gospel. In these points we desired Mr. G. to approve the ministry of Eng●and, or his own ministry by the rules of CHRIST'S Testament. This if he had done, all controversy had ceased, and we yielded. All this by his own bare word of affirmation & never a place of scripture, he proveth in less than one page of his book. He affirmeth their names to be Ministers of the Gospel, Pastors, and Teachers. That the names of Parsons & Vicars are not to make any distinction of the ministry, but of the maintenance annexed to the same. That the Offices they bear, are to teach & instruct their flocks by the wholesome word of God, to administer the sacraments, and to make public prayers. These he is sure are prescribed in CHRIST'S Testament, and if our eye were not malignant we might espy them there.  
THAT these names & offices of Pastor & Teacher, with this administration spoken of, are in CHRIST'S Testament, we never doubted or made question, but now whether these Parsons, vicars, Curates, Hired Preachers, carry, truly have, and execute the names, offfices, and functions of these christian Pastors & Teachers, all the doubt is. And more than Mr. GIFFARD his bare word, we as yet have not to assure us thereof: although we have even with importunity begged and urged him, or any of his fellows, either directly to approve their ministry by the rules of CHRIST'S Testament in their Office Entrance and Administration: Or else to prove unto us by the word of God that such Offices, Entrance unto and Administration in their offices, is not now necessary and of necessity in the Church of CHRIST: but that the Prince (whose honourable name they over much abuse to the patronizing of all their abominations) or rather the POPE (to whose kingdom this antichristian ministry served) hath power to erect a new & other ministry in office, entrance, and administration unto the Church, then that of Christ's Testament. In all which if this ministry of England cannot by th'express rules of the word be justified, all the powers in earth or Hell cannot make them the true Ministers of the Gospel. For other ministry & offices of the gospel is not given or to be given unto the Church, than those CHRIST hath instituted in his Testament. Neither may any other Entrance or Administration be joined to that Ministry & those offices, then is in CHRIST'S Testament appointed. If therefore we show that these Ministers have not those offices, that entrance, or administration mentioned in Christ's Testament, it shall be enough to show them conterfeite, strange, and antichristian.  
First then by Mr. Giff● his leave, we must a little insist even upon these strange names of Parson & Vicar, which were given by their first founders & creators at the erection of their ministry & offices, and are not read of in all the book of God: Neither are any of those names which our Saviour Christ hath given & knit unto his ministry, for the distinguishing & expressing of their several offices, and therefore can at no hand belong unto the ministri of the Gospel. Neither may any mortal man be so presumptions to give other names & denominations unto his reverend ministry & holy offices, than the Lord of the house himself hath given. Neither may or will the true Ministers of Christ carry any other names or titles (as in regard of their ministri or office) than Christ hath given to their ministry & office. But Mr. Giff. denieth these names to make any distinction of their ministri, but only of the state of maintenance annexed unto the same. Let us then ask him one question; what difference is there betwixt the Arch and Lord Bishops, and the parish Parsons and Vicars of the Church of ENGLAND in respect of their ministry, if these names be not given to put difference betwixt, and distinction of the● office & ministry? I trust he will not say these Lord Bishops & Parsons have all one office & ministry in their Church. I believe his Ordinary will hardly agree to him in this point. Let him find therefore a new distinction to help this matter. Again, we could say to M. Giffard, that these names of Parsons and Vicars do not only distinguish their ministry from their Lord Bishop's archdeacons, Deans etc., but yet maketh a distinction even amongst themselves, betwixt them & such of their other roving Ministers, which have no certain flock or charged, but as soon as they are made Ministers unto and of any one certain flock, then take they forthwith their denomination of that flock or town, as the Bishops do of the great Cities, and are then & not before called Parsons or Vicars of such a Town. To conclude, these names of Parson & Vicare being distinct names, and having distinct livings appropriate unto them, belonging also to one & the same church or Town, and being given to two divers men & so possessed at one and the same time, cannot but belong to two divers offices of their Church, Except two men may also have & execute one & the same office at the same instant, as well as one man may execute two or more divers offices of their Church at one instant. But sure these Paradoxes are so inaudible & incredible, yea so impossible in the Church of CHRIST, as I see not how all Mr. Giffard his logic and learning can reconcile them to the Testament of CHRIST.  
But to come to the offices of these Parsons & Vicars, Mr. Giff▪ saith (if we may believe him) they are Pastors & Teachers, yet setteth us not down who be the Pastors, & who be the Teachers of their Church. It should seem by his speech that these two, the Parson and Vicar, are one office, namely, Pastors, and that such hireling Predicantes as himself are the Teachers of this Church of England. Let us first consider of their Pastors, by comparing them to the Pastor's office. The true christian Pastor is placed of God in his house his church, 
Tit. 1. 7.  as a Steward both to divide the portion, 
Math. 24. 45.  and to oversee, take charged & look to the order & government of that Church, 
Marc. 13. 34  whereof he is chosen & made a Minister, & of all the public actions thereof, 
1 Tim. 5. 17.  together with the other Elders. But these Parsons by virtue of their office & ministry, 
Heb. 13. 17.  are not bound to labour in the word, otherwise, then to preach. 4. sermons in the year, either by himself or by his substitute, and that not by law, except his benefice exceed a certain annual somme in the Queen's book. Otherwise they are but bound to read the service prescribed in the common book, at such times and tides as is there enjoined, to wear the priests attire, to read injunctions and homilies etc. Neither are they permitted, or by virtue of their office may intermeddle, with the oversight, order, and government of that flock whereof they are Parsons. CHRIST now in his Church hath instituted no ecclesiastical office above the Pastor's office. 
Rom. 12.  Neither may any true christian Pastor stand, or exercise his office under any such false ecclesiastical office, 
Gal. 2. 4. 5.  as CHRIST hath not instituted; 
john. 10. 12  But there are sundry offices in the Church of England above the Parson's office. 
Acts. 20. 29  Unto which superior offices all these Parsons stand subject, 
3 john. 9 10  having sworn their Canonical obedience to their Courts, Cannons, commandments, to their sommance, censure, controlment, for all their actions, ministry, conversation, to be made Ministers, deposed from their ministry, silenced, sequestered, suspended by them. 
2 Tim. 2. 4  The true christian Pastor (as by virtue of his office) entangleth not himself, 
Acts. 6. 2  neither intermeddleth with civil actions and affairs, But these parish Parsons (especially these of the Country) are busied, 
1 Pet. 4. 15  and almost wholly entangled with renting, 
1 Tim. 3. 3  tithing, prowling their Parrishners, whether faithful or unfaithful, 
Ezek. 13.  rich or poor, Widows or Orphans, they marry, 
Mat. 23. 14.  they bury etc., by virtue of their office, and are ●o all outward seeming and judgement rather Rieves and Bailiffs, 
Phil. 3. 18. 19  than Ministers of the Gospel. Yea if it be true which some writers of no small account both old and new have written of them, these parish Parsons were at the first devised and brought in to serve the metropolitans in the offices of Rieves and Bailiffs to gather up their rents, etc. Again the true christian Pastors office cannot be possessed by any civil person. But the parish Parson's office may be, and often is, bestowed upon Sicilians, Phis●●ons, who, if they wear the priests weeds enjoined. It sufficeth. Not here meaning or speaking of impropriatio●s which have no office and charged of any Ministry, it being transferred to a Vicar endo●ed: Moreover the christian Pastors office cannot be kept or executed by a man absent, or by any other in that Congregation whereof he is chosen, then by the elect of that Congregation. But the Parish Parson's office may be kept by a man absent, executed by an Attorney or Curaeie. Finnaly, 
Acts. 20.  every true christian Pastor is by that his officie, 
1 Tim. 3.  a Bishop. But no Parish Parson is by virtue of that his office a Bishop. 
T●t. 1.  Therefore and for all these reasons abovesaid the parish Parson's office can in no just intendment be held the true christian Pastors office.  
Now let us proceed to their entrance, this being first a position perpetual, 
H●b. 5. 4  That every true Minister of the Church must not only be called to a true office, 
john. 10  but must have a true & right caling unto that his office: 
Nomb. 16. 5. 40.  otherwise he is no true Minister, but an usurper, an intruder, a thief, a murderer. Every true Minister then, by the rules of the word ought to be thus called. Every particular Congregation being a faithful flock, destitute of some Minister (for example of a Pastor) ought to make choice of some one faithful christian, of whose virtues, knowledge, judgement, 
1 Tim. 3.  fitness, and conversation (according to the rules in that behalf prescribed) they have assured proof and experience in 
Tit. 1.  some christian Congregation or other, 
Acts. 14.  where he hath lived. Such a one, the whole Congregation being gathered together in the name of God with fasting & prayer for the especial assistance of his holy spirit, to be directed to that person whom the Lo●de hath made meet and appointed unto them for that high charged and Ministry. In which Election every particular member of the said Congregation hath his peculiar interest of assent or dissent, showing his reasons of dissent in reverent manner, not disturbing the holy and peaceable order of the Church. Whose exceptions and reasons are to be considered of, and compared to the rules of the word, if they be found peremptory and true. As the party to be of no found judgement in the faith, of no sufficient knowledge in the scriptures, a drunkard, a smiter, covetous, one that ruleth not well his own house, wife, childs &c. than yieldeth the whole Church to their reasons, or rather to the word of God. But if their exceptions be unsufficient or untrue, then proceedeth and stands their Election, and the persons that take them are publicly reprou●d, according to their offence. This choice thus made, accepted, and determined, the elect is to be publicly ordained and received in and of the same Congregation, whereof and whereunto he is chosen. If there be an Eldership in that Congregation, by them, as the most meet instruments, with fasting, prayer, exhortations etc., if not, then by the help of the Elders of some other faithful Congregation, one Church being to help and assist an other in these affairs. But if the defection and apostasy be so general as there be not any where any true Elders to be found, or conveniently to be had, yet then hath the Church that hath power and commandment to choose and to use Ministers, yea that only hath that most high and great spiritual power of our Lord jesus Christ upon earth committed unto their hands, power also to ordain their Ministers by the most fit members and means they have. For the Eldership doth not add more power, but more help and service to the Church in this action. Neither doth this action (which is but a publishing of that former contract and agreement betwixt the whole Church and these elect, the Church giving & the elect receiving these offices as by the commandment of God with mutual covenant and vow each to other in all duties) belong to the Elders only as separate from the Church, but to the Elders as the most fit members and instruments of the Church, to do it for and in the Church. Otherwise, when the true ministry ceased, as in the general apostasy, they could never again be recovered in the Church: because they cannot have this ordination of true christian Elders, and so must the ministry, sacraments, and ordinances of Christ's Testament cease for ever, and the true established Church never be seen again upon earth: Unless with the Papists they ●il make a personal succession of Ministers in some place ever since the Apostles tyme. Or with Mr. Giffard make a true public ministry, sacraments etc., in the Church of Rome in the diepest apostasy. Which yet of all other is the most absurd Proposition that ever I suppose was uttered by any man, or published and allowed by any Church, contrary to all the rules of God's word, and even to itself. For how can there be by any reasonable man imagined or seen public apostasy, and public faith in the same estate, at one and the same instant? Likewise if of necessity the ordination must always be done by a christian Presbutrie or Eldership, we would then know of them by what Elders Mr. Luther, Mr. Ca●uine, or our English bishops in K. EDWARDS days were ordained. Other Elders then of the Popish Church there were not then to be found. Now these are sure grounds that cannot be doubted of. The true ministry of Christ doth not belong unto, and may execute no ministry in the false Church. Neither yet hath the execrable ministry of the false Church any thing to do to ordain the true ministry of CHRIST'S Church, neither is their Ordination available. If then the Church of Rome and the ministry thereof were false and antichristian, then cannot the ministry of these men which was then in that estate given and received, be esteemed the true ministry of CHRIST belonging to his Church. But now if they hold the Church of Rome the true Church, and her Elders true Ministers of Christ, then is it utterly unlawful to withdraw, depart, or separate from the true Church at any time: And then were all these, and are all they in a most deadly schism: Mr. Caluins' distinction, that he separated from the corruptions of the Church of Rome, and not from the Church of Rome, will not here stand. For thereby they confess the Church of Rome the true Church, and that they for the corruptions of the Church depart. Which corruptions if they be not such and so incurable as to make the Church of Rome no Church, then is it not lawful for any such corruptions to departed from, and to forsake the true Church, and then are they all still in schism▪ by their own doctrine, and so no true Ministers. This I have thus lardglie written of the true Election and Ordination of Ministers, because I find so great ignorance and error amongst the Divines of the Church of ENGLAND therein. Some of them (as the most reform) that seem to seek CHRIST'S Discipline (as they call it) hold, that Elections and Ordinations ought to be done by the Presbutrie, at the least the ordination always of necessity. Others of them, the more gross of the common sort, that hold with the time, give the Election to the Patron, the Ordination to the Bishop only.  
LEt us now come to the election, probation, ordination of this part of the ministry of the Church of England, which exactly to set down in every perticularlie circumstance, I cannot, not having their book of Consecration. Election of their Ministry (for any thing that ever I could hear) they have none, only the Bishop appointeth a certain day and place when he will give (or rather sell) Orders. Thither then repair unto him all such as want other means to get their living, poor, idle, inordinate walkers, to whom the ministry is an vl●●um refugiam: None here staying for the caling of God in his Church, but running before they be sent: Hither to this market these hungry fox's flock. There they are by certain of the Bi●hopps substitutes, examined, if so be that they be under the degree of Masters of their Arts, for all double graduates need no probation, their hoods of both shoulders show that they have learning & divinity enough: And as for proof of their honesty and virtue, that is not material, that is not required or looked after in this business, except they be so evil beloved as some come to cry shame of them at that very time: Which if they do, yet must the matters be too bad and broad, that willbe received there. And as to this probation that is there made, it is but to know whether they have the latin tongue, and how they can construe some sentence of some author. If they be not prompt they shall be helped, or have more easy questions, or time given them, if so be they have any favour with Mr. Examiner's, they are very mean clerks which are there refused or sent away if they bring money in their purse, without which there is no ministry to be had in the Church of England. Such other as yet cannot endure this severe trial, having only their mother tongue, are to resort to their Lord Bishop at his house more secretly; where if they can make any friend unto him, they shall not miss of their desire; for the Bishop may, or at least doth make Ministers, aswell privately in his own house, as publicly at this solemn time & place. But these approved, they are brought arrayed in their white Ministerial vesture, unto the Bishop's chair, where he solemnly sitteth in his pontificalibus. At whose feet these Ministers that would be, are caused to kneel down; where having certain articles read unto them, unto which they are sworn & subscribe, then are they by the Bishops own mouth made and pronounced Ministers, uzt. Deacons, certain chapters of the Bible enjoined them as a task to read every day, as also certain books to study diligently: his orders also with the Bishop's great seal at them in a Box, are delivered them; for which they must pay full sweetly. Thus is he made half Priest, to read the book and serve a Cure, but not to enterprise to preach without the Bishop's special licence written, sealed, and well paid for, thereunto: neither may he administer the sacraments, until he have his full orders, and be made full Priest. Yet now is he a fit Curate for any parish, a fit Clerk for any benefice, come by it where he can, For here is he made Minister of the Church of England in general, without certain flock or charged, and is sent into the wide world with his licence to geat him a living where he may. Wherbie sundry of them (by reason of the multitudes that are daily made) are driven to make very hard shift, to teach young children, or to become housepriests (I mean not now Chaplains, for they are rufflers) for very mean wage. Yet must I needs say, the Bishop taketh an especial care to prevent this, for he hath certain of their sufficient friends to be bound I think, or else to testify, that they have 5. pounds by year to live upon; lest indeed the Bishop himself should be after charged to find them, by an especial Cannon made in the behalf of poor Priests and Ministers.  
Well, being now stepped into the ministry, it is not long for the most part (especially if any benefice befall them) before they be made full Priests either by the Bishop privately, or publicly at such day & place abovesaid. Where they are again examined how they have performed their task enjoined, and how they have profited in the study of divinity. Wherein being approved, they are in manner & attire abovesaid, placed at the Bishop's feet; who now layeth his hands upon them, delivereth them the Bible, and breathing his unholy spirit upon them giveth them the holy Ghost (as he blasphemously saith) and sendeth them forth unto all people to preach and deliver the sacraments, 
These men by this office ordination and sending should be Apostles. Mat●. 28. 18. 19 Io●. 20. 21. 22.  for as yet there is no certain charged of flock mentioned. Where these Priests having sworn their Canonical obedience, and again Subscribed, paying for his Orders & all other fees, are now made full Priests in any ground in England.  
This common sort thus Priestified, either serve Cures, or by some means or other geat a benefice by Presentation or Resignation etc. And here must the Patron that oweth the Advowson present him to the Bishop, 
And what high office than exerciseth the Bishop that takes & sendeth forth Apostles & giveth them the Holy Ghost.  as his Clerk; To whom this Priest must yet again subscribe, and then receiveth the bishops institution in writing, with his seal thereat, which must be well paid for also. This Priest thus instituted, cometh with his letters and seals to his parish, and taketh possession of his parsonage: where he must be inducted, an other Priest delivering him the key of the Church door, which he must open, and enter; where he hath a bell-rope put into his hand, and must knole a Bell: After which a peal is rung, and he carried to some feaste-house or other, instead of fasting and prayer. And thus have you heard the manner of the Election, Probation, and Ordination of these Pastors & Teachers of the Church of England. Which if it can by any learning or cunning be proved that holy caling which is prescribed in CHRIST'S Testament, and which may not be severed from the ministry of the Gospel, then have they the more to rejoice, and we to repent, before the Lord.  
And now whether we have lied (as Mr. give. very boldly chargeth us) in saying that their ministry is imposed upon these Churches, let the indifferent reader judge. Yea let him also consider, what kind of interest, freedom, and power these parishes have to choose & ordain their own Ministers, The people never seeing or knowing their Minister, until he come with his letters of institution, or having any thing to do at his ordination; he being made full Priest, yea & their Priest, and that whether they will or no, before he come at them. And let Mr. GIFFARD himself look what power any parish in England hath to disannul the patrons Presentation, the Bishop's ordination and institution. The Bishop he ordaineth them Ministers, though he or his examiners never saw or knew the men before that present hour: He maketh them Ministers to no certain flock or charged, therefore can no peculiar flock have interest in their election & ordination. The Patron whatsoever he be, whether Woman, child, Fool, wicked Person, Papist, (yea worse, if worse may be) he presenteth his Clerk to that benefice, though he be an hundred miles off from the Bishop; and the Bishop, though he know neither parish nor Minister, must admit, or else lieth a Q●are impedit to compel him. The Priest thus instituted, he cometh to the parish, taketh possession of the Parsonage, and their Minister he will be, whether the people will or not; they must receive him, and may not keep him out, how bad soever he be. And whereas Mr. GIFF. bringeth instance to prove that the ministry is not imposed, because that sundry flocks have those Pastors & Ministers of the Gospel that they have desired and made choice of by suit unto the patrons, and to the parties whom they desire to have. This yet more showeth their bondage, in that they are driven to make suit unto their patrons, and to receive from him their ministry; which I believe Mr. Giff. shall never be able to show that any christian Congregation did or might do. And to the choice he speaketh of, I ween they were Ministers, yea Pastors, before they chose them; And being so, they then by the rules of CHRIST'S Testament ought to belong unto some certain and peculiar flocks; which if they do, how then may they choose the Pastor of an other flock to make him their Pastor? what kind of choice will M. Giff. make his? whilst he goeth about to stop the gap, he maketh it wider. But now to their chopping, changing, and leaving of their benefices at their own pleasures as more gaynful are offered, without the people's privity or consent (which is an usual trade amongst them all, not one amongst a thousand that doth not thus flit up & down, and Mr. Giff▪ none of those odd ones) for this he had not one excuse coined, we must stay until the mint go the third tyme. And then let him also consider, how these parish Parsons may without the people's consent or liking be absent & live away from the flock as long as they list, even all the days of their life if they will, finding them a Cura●e a journey man, to read them their service, marry, bury etc., and 4. sermons in the year, which they may also do by their attorney. These things if Mr. GIFF. can show that a christian Pastor may lawfully do, then at length shall he show them like a christian Pastor in some thing.  
NOw to the Teacher's office of their Church of ENGLAND; except they make their bishops & Parsons to be both Pastors & Teachers, and to execute both offices, we know not what he should mean; For we find no such office in their Church. Their University Doctors have this title rather in ostentation of their learning, then by virtue of any office ecclesiastical. This title is given aswell to other sciences, as Physic, Civil law etc., as to Divinity. Their Civil Doctors execute other offices of their Church, as to be judges of Courts, Commissaries, Chaunsclours, Commissioners, neither are busied in teaching, therefore they cannot be said to have a Teacher's office. Their Doctors of Divinity are either Bishops, Deans, archdeacons, Parsons, vicars, or full Priests, all which meddle with the administration of the Sacraments, and are distinct offices from the Teacher's office, and therefore not the same. Neither may two distinct or divers offices of the Church be possessed or executed by one & the same person at once, except they can prove it possible for one member to be both an eye & an ear or hand, 
Rom. 12. 5.  and to execute their functions at once. These officers are called members of CHRIST'S body his Church, 
1 Cor. 12.  these offices are distinct & several: Men with several gifts & graces by the distribution of God himself are appointed thereunto: whose holy order they break, besides all other inconveniences and impossibilities that ensue thereof, which thus presume in their own persons to execute sundry offices of the Church at one tyme. further, the churches of England have allowed them by law but one Priest each of them (which room possessed, they are said to be full) except some few which have Parson and Vicar, or two Parsons in a town, both which meddle with th'administration of their Sacraments, and therefore cannot be said to have the Teachers' office. As to these Curates & stipendary Preachers, they are either full Priests, or but half priests or Deacons. The full Priests all of them by office may administer the Sacraments. The half Priests none of them by office may preach or expound the word, without especial licence, Therefore neither the one or the other of these have the christian Teachers office.  
And now to the stipendary Preachers let us for example insist upon Mr. Giffardes own ministry; he writeth himself Minister of God's holy word in MALDON. We would know of him in what office he doth administer unto this Church. We read in CHRIST'S Testament but of two Ministers of the word now belonging to his Church. The Pastor & the Teacher▪ Pastor of that Church he is not; because they have an other allowed by law, which is also his Pastor, (and that to his further shame a double beneficed man.) Teacher there he is not; because that Church hath no such office, and is full; as also because this man is full Priest, and (as ●haue heard) was sometime a Vicar (a Pastor he saith) from which his ministry & place he is now deprived, departed, and apostatate, as also from all grace and feeling. Neither hath he in MALDON the credit or room so much as of a Curate, the Pastor there supplying his own office, but is brought in by such of the Parish as having itching ears, 
2 Tim. 4. 3.  get unto themselves an heap of newe fangled teachers after their own lusts, disliking & loathing the ministry that is set over them, to which notwithstanding in hypocrisy and for fear of the world they join in prayers & sacraments, pay tithes & maintenance, as to their proper Minister.  
To such people being rich and able to pay them well, 
Rom. 16. 18  these sectorie precise Preachers run for their hire and wages, 
Phil. 31. 19  but chief for vainglory & wordly estimation. And there teach and preach this people for the most part, under some dumb or plurified Pastor: from whom as from unsufficient and blind guides they withdraw not the people, showing them the will of God in that or in any other point, 
Acts. 20. 27  be it never so odious and abominable, 
Gal. 5. 11.  that might bring peril. Yet for their own estimation, 
Gal. 4. 17.  advantage, and entertainment, they will by all subtle means under hand seek to abalienate the hearts and minds of this forward and best inclined people from these their Pastors, 
1 Thes. ●. 3. 4. 5. 6.  and slily to draw them unto themselves. 
Ezek. 13. 18.  Long it were to relate their arts and engines, 
jer. 23. 30.  whereby they hunt and entangle poor souls: their sergeant shows of holiness, 
Math. 23.  gravity, austereness of manners, preciseness in trifles, large conscience in matters of greatest weight, especially of any danger; straining a gnat and swallowing a Camel; hatred and thundering against some sin, tolerating yea colouring some other in some special persons; cunning insinuating into, and never offending the rich, nor regarding the poor; holding and withholding the known truth of God in respect of times, places, and persons; dissembling, hiding, withholding it in their public ministry and doctrines, where it may draw them into any trouble or trial; yea balking, if not perverting, the evident scriptures as they arise against any public enormity of the time, under the colour of peace, christian policy, and wisdom. Whereby these Scorpions so poison & sting every good conscience, so leaven them with hypocrisy, and teach them to halt with the times, dissembling with God and their own conscience, that such proselytes as are won unto them, become twofold more the children of Hell than they were before. 
● Tim. 3.  Yea so is their whole auditory entangled with their snares, as scarce any of them (without the especial mercy of God) are ever recovered, brought to any soundness, stability, or upright walking, to any conscience, true faith, or fear of God. here-hence ariseth these schisms and sects in the Church of ENGLAND, 
1 Cor. 3.  some holding with these Preachers, which make show as though they sought a sincere reformation of all things according to the Gospel of CHRIST, and yet both execute a false ministry themselves, and they, together with all their hearers and followers, stand under that throne of Antichrist, 
G●l. 6. 12.  the Bishops their Courts, and accomplices, and all those detestable enormities which they would have utterly removed & not reform: And these are hereupon called Precitians, or Puritans, and now lately Martinistes. The other opposite ●ide are the Pontificales, that in all things hold & jump with the time, and are ready to justify whatsoever is or shallbe by public authority established. And with these hold all the rabble of Atheists, dissembling Papists, old & lukewarm Protestants, Libertines, dissolute and facinorous persons, and such as have no knowledge or fear of God. Even that ancient sect of the Pharasies and Saducees. the one in preciseness, outward show of holiness, hypocrisy, vainglory, covetousness, resembling or rather exceeding the Pharasies: the other in their whole religion, and dissolute conversation like unto the Saducees, looking for no resurrection, judgement, or life to come, confessing God with their lips, and serving him after their careless manner, but denying him in their heart, yea openly in their deeds, as their whole life and all their works declare. Long it were, and not my purpose in this place, to show how these Pharasie, Sectorie Teachers, these stipendary roving predicantes, that have no certain office or place assigned them in their Church, 
I●de 11. 13 verse.  but like wandering stars remove from place to place for their greatest advantage and best entertainment, in the error of Bala●m powered out for wage, seduce and distract the people of the land, drawing them from their own Churches and Ministers, some to this, some to that Preacher by heaps, each one as he standeth affected to him that best fitteth his humour. Mie desire rather here is to show the forgery of this whole Ministry of the Church of England in their false office and entrance, aswell these precise esteemed Preachers, as the parish Parsons and Curates: which I hope by this which is said either is or may be done: Now it remaineth that we proceed to their administration and mainetenance.  
OF their Administration we have above in the discovery of their public worship more particularly entreated, finding it wholly according to that erroneous apochriphas popish liturgy, that idolatrous abominable book of their service, whereunto they are bound, whereby they are stinted & nourrered in all things, upon what days, eaues & hours through the year to come to Church, what garments to wear in the Church, where and when to fit, stand, and kneel, what & how much to read at this and that time, at this and that lesson, Pistle, Gospel. When to read, when to sing, when to pray, where to verse, when to Collect: with all other circumstances, ceremonies, trinkets in their Sacraments, Marriages, Purifications, Visitations, Burials etc., as is in that part of the treatise (though sommarily, yet more plainly) declared, whereunto I refer the reader. Here only affirming, that this their devised, abominable, idolatrous worship, miserable abuse and high profanation of scriptures, open port-sale, and wilful sacrilege of their ministery and Sacramen, to the most profane and ungodly, do sufficiently declare what kind of ministery they execute, and Ministers they are. How possible it is to join or to make the holy Gospel and Ministry of Christ accord unto this people in this confusion, ignorance, and sin, or to these devices & tromperiers, 
jere. 23. 2●.  let any in whom is any light judge, when light and darkness can be mingled together, or the stubble & straw remain in the flambing-fire vnconsumed, then shall this be.  
Yet further to manifest what kind of Preachers of the Gospel they are, and preaching of the Gospel they make, let their most heinous & open professed perfidy in betraying their whole Ministry, Gospel, Church, Christ and all into the hands of their Lords these antichristian Bishops, show, from whose apostatical Chair they have received their ministry, to whose orders and injunctions they have subscribed, to whose Courts & power they have sworn their Canonical obedience: from whom they have received their licence and authority to preach, 
Gal. 1. 10. 〈◊〉  with condition not to preach against any thing by public authority established, how ungodly and enormous soever they be: And also have submitted their whole doctrines & persons to these their Ordinances not to teach any truth, or against any error that they inhibit, to preach, or cease to preach, to administer or cease to administer, at their direction and inhibition: And for their private estate, by them to be enjoined what kind of apparel to wear when they ride, walk abroad, or administer: Not to marry without their knowledge, 
Gal. 2. 4. 5  consent, or licence even to this or that particular woman etc. Must not this needs be an excellent ministry and ministration of the Gospel that is thus mancipate to and by these slaves, that is thus bought and sold, limited, prescribed, restrained? when they can prove that the Gospel may be in this manner used in the true Church of CHRIST, or preached by the true Ministry of Christ, we will then yield to their whole ministration, and acknowledge them the true Ministers of Christ. But in the mean while because this is impossible, and cannot without blasphemy be enterprised, without sin be thought; because also we find upon this present Ministry of theirs, even all the marks of the false Prophet, that are written in the book, and all the marks of the Beast, we must hold them as they are, except we will with them condemn the truth of God, and call CHRIST execrable.  
Neither yet is this their preaching (considered even in it self) set apart from all the abuses and enormities above recited, such, as they glory of, abounding with such great learning, excellent gifts, and rare graces of the spirit, or answerable to that heavenly exercise of prophecy in Christ's Church. Of their education and learning even from the grammar school to the pulpit, you have already heard: as also their Divinity to be traditional, wholly derived from other men's writings and books, both for the understanding, dividing, and interpretation of all scriptures, as also for all doctrines, questions, and doubts that arise, and not springing from the fountain of God's spirit in themselves, according to the measure of knowledge, faith, and grace given them. So that these dumb blind guides and watchmen do but see with other men's eyes, but speak with other men's mouths, and (as one of their chief authors saith of them) without these books they as are blind as molles, as mute as fishes, not able of themselves to decide, open, and interpret almost any scripture, Or to discuss, judge, or decide any doubt, or controversy with assurance. And therefore when any new question unwritten of before ariseth, they are either all at a full point not knowing what to say to the matter, Or else when they speak, so many opinions and sentences, as speakers. Yea even in the things they read and teach (there being so great diversity & contrariety amongst these Writers their authors) there also ensueth great difference & contrariety in their doctrines which they publicly deliver, One teaching one thing in one place, an other the quite contrary in an other. And this not only in interpretation and understanding of sundry, yea almost all places of scripture, but even in most weighty (and as they call them) fundamental points of doctrine. As whether the Church of Rome be to be esteemed a true Church or no▪ The Sacraments there delivered, and the Ministry there ordained, be ●o be held true sacraments, and a true Ministry or no. Also if the ordinances, order, and outward government of Christ's Church left in Christ's Testament be perpetual & of necessity to be observed etc. And all this diversity & contrariety of judgement publicly taught in their Church, must be coloured and passed over with this sweet sentence of Mr. Giff. That they are but brotherly dissensions, they agree in all fundamental doctrines. A happy turn it were, that those fundamental doctrines were once agreed upon and set down, that we might then know which part of CHRIST'S Testament is fundamental and of necessity, and which is accidental and not necessary, but variable and at man's wil In the mean while we must still believe that CHRIST is not yea and nay, 
2 Cor. 1. 1●  of one mind in one place, of an other else where. Neither that the spirit of God can rule in both places, where such contrary doctrines are taught and maintained. We also are taught, that howsoever brethren through ignorance may doubt and differ in judgement for a season, yet are they no there upon to teach such things as they are not assured of, lest they publish and sow errors: Which who so doth, be he man or Angel that teacheth any other thing or otherwise then Chris.. 
Gal. 1. 8  and his Apostles have taught and delivered, 
Rom. 16. 17.  or causeth division & dissension contrary to their doctrine, 
1 Tim. 6. 3  or cometh not to the wholesome words of our Lord jesus Christ etc., we are to hold them accursed, to watch, and avoid them.  
Likewise, 
1 Corin. 14. 29. 30. 31. 32.  the manner of their pulpit preaching nothing 〈◊〉 to the order of Christ's Church, where the Prophets I mean such as are known to have the gift of interpretation of scriptures) have all of them liberty to speak, 
Rom. 12. 6  what God revealeth unto them besides that which hath been delivered, 
1 Pet. 4. 10. 11.  so that they neither hinder, disturb, or interrupt the public ministery of the Church, but use their liberty opportunely & holily to edification. They have liberty also, yea their especial duty it is, to observe and publicly to reprove any false interpretation, or false Doctrine delivered publicly in the Church, by whom soever; Yea this power hath the least member of the Church in due order and place, if the Prophets and Elders should oversee, omit, neglect, or refuse. The whole Church also, even every peculiar Christian Congregation, hath power in it self to censure not only any doctrine delivered, but the person of any member or Minister of the same congregation. But here in these Babylonish Synagogues one Priest climbeth up into their pulpits for orations, and possesseth the place alone, where he declameth, delivereth his studied tale to the hourglass, which being run out, he must make an end for troubling his auditory, and leave no place or time of addition, assent or dissent to any other, all the people hasting away. In his pulpit, after he hath read his text, he may divide, teach, or hadle it, leave or take it, corrupt, falsify, wrist, or pervert it at his pleasure. In that his privileged tub he may deliver what doctrines he list, be they never so corrupt, false, blasphemous. None of his auditor, whatsoever they be, hath power to call them into question, cerrect, or refute the same presently and publicly, for that is by law forbidden: But the Church is driven to their Lord Ordinary to complain, and except or until he redress, they must hold & use him still as their Minister. In that privileged tub he may inve●ghe, accuse, slander, devounce against any truth or person that witnesseth against their kingdom, or against any public sin or enormity of the time, without censure or controlment. Nay these men are praised, incited, and commended for this, as the most faithful and godly; which maketh both the sects, as well Reformis●es as Pontifical yearn praise by this vain, and fight with one accord for their kingdom against Christ's faithful servants, whom they call Brownistes, as against a common enemy; yea more bitterly than they do against any other enemy, heretic, or wicked person. Only here in this tub if they can keep their tongues from speaking against their Lords the Bishops & their proceedings, or against any public enormity in the Church or common wealth, they may then ease their stomachs against any mean person, or one Priest against an other, and rail their fill. These particular Congregations have neither power to reprove their doctrines, or to censure their persons, be the one never so heretical, the other never so obstinate; and needs then must here be a clean Church I trow.  
And now how sincerely and purely these learned Priests & Divines all the rabble of them preach God's Law and Christ's Gospel, to set down their several defaults, ignorances', corruptions, and unfaithfulness, were infinite. Let the high open wilful breach of all God's laws by all degrees, suffered, and unreproved, declare and witness to their faces. Let their execrable Idols, and idolatries, their abominable worship & innumerable devices, their taking the lords name in vain, their common swearing in every matter, and trial for every cause and trifle, yea without any cause, their common & open blaspheming, and cursing, yea transfiging the holy and dreadful name of God in their anger and mi●th; Their impiety, prophannes, pride, vanity, gluttony, excess, idleness, riot, playing, sporting, dancing etc., on the lords day openly seen, suffered, unpunished, show how well they keep and teach the first Table of God's law in the Church of England. And for the second, let the evil nurture & bringing up of their youth, their dissoluteness, irreverence, head strong and incorrigible nature, yea their open disobedience & contempt of parents and superiors, the inordinate walking of all degrees held within the compass of no laws, limits, callings, in the fear and obedience of no person Magistrate, Parent, Master; Let the common quarles, frays, foods, tumults, bloodshed, murder, manslaughter, the jars, hatreds, contentions, debates, wrath, anger, envying, cursing, reviling, nicknaming etc., Let the common and open whoredoms, adulteries, fornications, chambering, wantonness, dalliance, lightness, delicacy and softness of apparle, diet, manners, to deck, provoke, allure, their courting entertainment, open and secret lust (otherwise called love) most rife as in Sodom; Let their open robberies, their secret thefts, pickings, pilferinges, their open oppression, violence, wrong, extortion, usury, their usual deceit and coven in all bargaining, buying, selling; Let their common & customable open and secret lving, blaspheming, slandering, accusing, reproaching, defaming, bringing up, carrying, and receiving evil reports one of an other, their false swearing in testimony, their swearing and foreswearing to deceive even in every trifle: And as for covering of wife, virgin, servant, house, land, cattle, goods, insatiable covetousness and greediness, heaping and hourding up treasures, continual purchasing and adding field unto field, yea town unto town, till they have gotten whole countries into their possession, never satiate till their mouth be full of mould. these are the best and only esteemed Christians of the Church of England; where covetousness is no sin. They that should speak against it, pride, intemperance etc. should judge the heart, and enter into God's judgement seat; Let these capital sins and transgressions against the law of God, which are committed without shame or fear, either not punished or wrongfully punished (murder only excepted, which how also it is winked at or pardoned I will not stand upon) let these I say stand up to the faces of these Priests & Prophets, being thus commonly & openly committed in their Church, and witness how faithfully and sincerely they expound & declare the laws & judgements of God, how carefully they watch over the souls of men, and govern the Church, that have not against all or any one of these sins, any spiritual weapons, or ecclesiastical censure in a readiness; So that if the Magistrate's sword (which yet wanteth an eye to guide it) did not repress some sins, there should be no human peace, as there now is no christian order in their Church. And now if I should here stand to dirive the several and special kinds of sins (which as rivers are divided and flow forth from all these general heads, and as a deluge cover the face of this whole land) it were infinite; but what then to divide those rivers again into their particular drops? namely, such particular persons as commit the same, yea such and so many particular times as they commit the same, who then should number them? All these sinners and sins are in this Church by these Leeches these Prophets healed with the plaster of peace, with the blood and merits of CHRIST, though there be neither faith nor repentance, they are all good christians.  
Likewise if I should here stand to relate and recite the falsehood, deceit, and hypocrisy of these Priests (let me here be understood even of those best esteemed forward learned Preachers, commonly called Good men) how cunningly and craftily they teach the law, never touching or offending their auditory (at least the mighty or rich of them) be their sins never so heinous and manifest; especially if they will countenance, esteem, feast, and hear these Preachers, they are in them but infirmities, and imperfections, be they never so deiplie set & incurable. And again how sharply they will inveigh against others which think not so well of them, especially if they be not of power to do them hur●e, nor of will to do them good; how they will speak against such sins of the second Table, as their rich auditory are not at all, or least addict unto, and beat them down as with thunder from heaven, though they suffer as great in them and their houses befor● their face uncontrolled. Yea what fine shifts, excuses, and veals they will find out to extenuate, excuse, or hide the sins of these great rich persons, in whose houses all excess, glo●onie, riot, pride, idleness, gaming, shallbe but good hospitality answerable to their estates, honest recreation. And this veal of recreation must cover all their heathen sports within doors and without, though it be all the day yea all their life long, though they draw never so many idle beholders, or idle assistants to keep them company, to follow their dogs, hawks etc. as their only caling & profession. Yea go these Esawites, their wives, and children never so disguisedly in their strange prodigious shapes, newe fangled attires, with their infinite devices & curiosities, it is but according to their degree, sex, age, calling, with infinite such like. Also, if I should stand to relate the sundry shifts of these Reformist Preachers, these sighers for reformation, these conscience butchers, these Preachers of the Gospel to win and keep credit with the world; How zealous in some place, time, auditory, where they may be well backed they will seem against some trifles, as though they were of most precise and unstained conscience; And again how lukewarm, cold, and backward they willbe in the same points at an other time, place, and auditory, How strange to the poor that shall desire their judgement of some points, especially of these, But chiefly if any have espied more light than they would they should, and do but make question of their ministry, worship, Church etc., with what exquisite sleights they will seek to draw them back, as running too far & too fast before their guides, with what poisoned cavils to quench their zeal and spirit, to plead for and defend their sin and apostasy, These things to dicusse, or but to show in particular, with their due circumstances, would require a long and large discourse, yea no book were able to contain all their devilish devices and delusions, which even fill that flying volume the Prophet speaketh of, Satan having his forge of all mischief continually going amongst them. All which their dealings evidently show what kind of ministers and preachers of the Gospel they are, Which draw the people unto, and with their preaching keep them in, this defection & apostasy from the Gospel, which keep the people from, and will not lead them to the sincere practise of the Gospel: but with their school learning draw a veal before CHRIST'S face, that the people might not see to the end of his ministry, neither discern what CHRIST'S will is for any action of the Church, or to examine by the rules of CHRIST'S Testament any thing by public authority established. Yea we see and have showed, how they draw the people unto, and themselves administer by an other Lei●ourgie than Christ● Testament, which prescribeth an other kind of administration both to themselves and to the whole Church in all things, than CHRIST hath prescribed. We see & have showed, how they hold all the people under this more than Babylonish yoke of these antichristian Prelates, their Courts etc., and stand themselves the marked Ministers, sworn subjects, and bond servants of these their Lords, have fetched their ministry, licence to preach, and their whole administration from them, how they are prescribed, stinted, limited, censured, silenced, deposed by them, how they have submitted and betrayed themselves, Church, Gospel, Christ to these enemies: Also what merchandise they make of their prayers, Gospel, preaching, sacraments, selling all and themselves to, for money: What traffic they make of their benefices, how they come by them and part from them, how they have in all things gone astray, forsaking the right way, having followed the way of Balaam of B●sor that loved the hire of unrighteousness, and are in all things so thoroughly corrupted, as they are the most bitter & pestilent enemies of the kingdom of CHRIST, and of the sincere practise of the Gospel; Devising to themselves & their miserable followers daily new errors & buy paths, as fast as the old (wherein they have walked) are discovered, as any that will take the pains to examine by the rules of the Scriptures their books of discipline and new forms of reformation, or rather those ancient primitive defections which they seek again to revive, shall perceive. For my part I am even ir●ked to rave in this bottomless abysm of their iniquities, which the more they are looked into still offer more matter of reproof, even without end. Wherefore I even with weariness here cease further to speak of their corrupt administration, hoping that by this already said, at the least upon due examination thereof, it may appear to all men, that this their whole administration and preaching of the word is altogether as corrupt, and in all points rightly fitteth unto their antichristian office & entrance. It now remaineth that we hast to and over their maintenance.  
THE maintenance of the ministri of the Church of ENGLAND is of these four sorts 1. Either by lordly revenues, with their royal rights, civil jurisdiction, Courts baron, tenancies etc., belonging thereunto. 2. Or by fees and pollages taysed & ravened in their spiritual Courts, for judging pleading, soliciting, writing, fetching up, summoning. 3. Or by gleabes and tithes. 4. Or else by annual set stipends.  
The first fort of these we have already showed to belong to Princes, to civil Lords and persons, and to be utterly unlawful and forbidden to the ministry of CHRIST. Mr. G●F. his liberal maintenance, or the ordinance of the Church, cannot maintain them. Neither will that word Philoxenos, which they so lardgly stretch & interpreat, carry half this pomp.  
To the second sort we affirm these Courts, Officers, judges, Advocates, Proctors, Registers, Pursevantes, Sommoners, together with all their functions, the orders of their Courts, manner of jurisdiction, pleading etc., where all things are pleadable if not vendible for money, where all causes even the most foul, find their advocates, colours, defence, delays for money etc., All these spiritual Courts, officers, judgements, plead, customs, we find devilish & antichristian, and not to appertain to the Church & kingdom of CHRIST, but to belong to the kingdom & throne of Antichrist, and of the Beast. And therefore may conclude that they are the revenues of sin, not to belong to the ministry of CHRIST.  
The third kind, these tithes, we find merely ceremonial, to have been ordained for, 
Nomb. 18.  and belonged unto the levitical ministery under the law. We find them an inheritance of the Levites: An offering of the people: Therefore they cannot in this manner by law by tied to the ministry of CHRIST, be made an inheritance unto them, an offering of the people unto them. For if there be a change of the Priesthood, the● of necessity must there be a change of the Law. 
Heb. 7. 12.  No part of the ceremonial law or of those shadows can be joined unto the Gospel & ministry of CHRIST, 
Gal. 4. & 5. Chapter.  they or any part of them cannot now be revived or retained without the denial & loss of CHRIST. 
Collos. 2. 20  And how is the ceremonial law abrogate whilst these tithes are in this manner allotted by law unto the ministry of the Gospel, as an inheritance to them, as an oblation of the people, even as in former time unto the Levites? The Prince's commandment, or the Church's decree cannot alter the nature of these tithes, to make them either civil or lawful. God was the author of this law, he made it ecclesiastical: Man can neither change the property or the end thereof, to make that civil that God hath make ecclesiastical. 
● Chr●n. 31.  King EZECHIA commanded & revived this law; it became not therebily civil. A godly Prince commandeth all the laws of the first Table, all the ordinances of Christ's Testament, shall they thereby be made civil, and no longer ecclesiastical or God's laws? The decree of the Church also (alleged by Mr. G.) showeth it ecclesiastical, for the Church maketh no civil decrees, it meddleth not with th'execution of civil government. Touching the power of the Church to make laws & decrees, we have in the first part of this book spoken. The Church is bound to the laws of God, and may make or receive none other laws than God hath made. Christ is the only Lawgiver & King of his Church. Again, this decree of the Church to ordain that the ministery of the Gospel should be maintained by tithes, you see is directly contrary to the will, yea to the being of Christ, in receiving that law & maintenance which Christ hath abolished together with the Levitical ministry. And aswell might they revive the Levitical ministry, or any other jewish ceremony with as great pretext and warrant, as this; except the Church of ENGLAND have some special warrant from or together with her Mother of ROME to revive and erect whatsoever CHRIST hath abolished, be it never so contrary unto him; yea and to abrogate whatsoever Christ hath instituted, be it never so necessary. How bold the Church of England is in these things, in their tithes, offerings, purification, suspension, their holy cimiteries, and cells, the shape of their Church, with the porch, batlementes, i●les, Folding doors, lights, ministerial vessels, ministerial garments, days, feasts etc., As on the other side to abrogate Christ's Ministry and the ordinances of his new Testament, 
1 Cor. 9  is above declared, and in this appeareth. For Christ having instituted an other mainetenance for his ministry, 
Gal. 6. 6  namely the free contribution and benevolence of his Saints in these Congregations whereunto they belong and administer; 
1 Cor. 16. 1. 2.  The Church of England judging this all to base for her Ministry, hath instituted or rather received of her mother of Rome Lordly yea Princely livings, Courtly judicial fees, Gleabes and tithes, set & certain stipends. She will not have the lowest of her Ministry to live thus beggarly, to depend upon the benevolence of the people, as our Saviour himself, his Apostles, and Ministers did: (which a certain Doctor of hers in disdain called the almose basket) But she will have all her ministry sure of their maintenance before hand, they shall neither depend upon God nor the Church; But she giveth them their lines and portion in the land amongst the people, and also giveth them a law over the people, whereby they may exact their duty, 
Mich. 3.  if the fleece or flesh be worth so much. The Priest here thrusteth his flesh-hooke into every poor body's kettle, 
Ezek. 34.  his ●ithe and sick●e into every field, 
1 Sam. 2.  prying and prowling in every place & corner, skratching and gathering up his tithes even to the chicken & egg, to the mint and anise without regard to whom they belong, 
Math. 23. 23  whether to the faithful or profane, 
Leu. 22. 25.  papist, atheist, witch, or heretic, to the poor or fatherless, 
Hab. 1.  catching up all with the angle, they cetch it in their net & gather it in their yarn and burn incense to their yarn, because this their portion is fa● and their meat plenteous, 
Math. 23. 14.  devowring widows houses under colour of long prayer. Now how this tithing prowling extortion, may be made the Christian Ministers maintenance, I would feign learn, 
Esa. 30. 24  Who as the Prophet saith should be fed with clean provender that is wynowed with the shoue● and with the fan. Who themselves ought to be examples of piety, equity, meekness, and not like greedy Wolves thus to make a pray of the sheep. 
Ezeck. 13. 4 19  Likewise how this tithe gathering and continual prowling may be enjoined or made to accord to a christian Ministers office, Or how it is possible for the true Minister of CHRIST diligently to attend his study and office together with this his tith gathering, let any that knoweth the work of the ministry judge. Yea rather let the holy Ghost judge, that expressly forbiddeth the ministry of the word to be entangled with such business of this life. 
2 Tim. 2. 4  If it be here said these tithes may be gathered by an other, yet this showeth they cannot be gathered by the Minister. And so still this reason holdeth, that therefore they are no fit maintenance for the ministry. The other reasons above recited, prove the unlawfulness of them.  
To the set stipends also and gleabes, I in like manner affirm them to be an other maintenance then that Christ hath instituted for his ministry; yea to take away that order, to the great detriment and manifold inconveniences of the Church, and therefore likewise unlawful. Holding this proposition firm, that where CHRIST hath instituted a maintenance for his Ministry, the Church may not devise or receive any new or other laws for the maintenance of their ministry, than CHRIST hath given. CHRIST then hath ordained that they that dress the vineyard & feed the flock, should eat of the fruit of that vinyeard and of the milk of that flock, to which they attend. This mainetenance in other places is set down to be the free contribution and benevolence of the Saints from time to time, according to the present ability of the one, and necessities of the other. This the Lord in wisdom hath thought most meet for his Church and ministery unto the worlds' end: As whereby to knit the hearts of them together in the band of love, in all mutual duties, to have each other in mind, to care, provide, and labour each for other as they ought. The Minister according to his du●ty to s●eke pasture for them, to thrash them out the corn out of the ears, yea to grind, prepare, and divide yet to the nourishment & comfort of them al. And they again on their part to labour, to administer of their earthly goods to the necessities & wants of their Ministers & guides. 
Phil. 4. 10. & ●.  Whereby y● one is encouraged in their studies, labours, & diligence, thus reaping the fruits of the people's faith and love, and are assured that they do their duties to the approbation and good liking of the flock; which when they shall fail and will not be drawn faithfully to do, then is not the flock any longer burdened with or bound unto such a Minister. As one the other side, if the people fall from the faith and refuse to walk orderly in the faith, then are the Ministers no further bound, or to continue to administer to such a people. But now whilst the Minister's mainetenance is made certain by law, or bargain, by stint, rate, or proportion imposed upon the people, how much and when each one shall pay, how much the Minister shall have yearly; It first depriveth God of the glory due to him for his blessing upon their labours and endeavours, in restraining the free contribution and willing benevolence of the people by this law or bargain, making it of necessity, stinting, and apportioning it to this or that rate, which the Lord hath left at the liberty, discretion, and will of each one, as God hath prospered, and according to that present ability God administereth. 
〈◊〉. 13. 16  with which contribution and sacrifice how well God is pleased, 
2 Cor. 9  the Scripture every where witnesseth. Then it taketh away or extinguisheth all those mutual and continual duties, 
Phil. 4.  benevolence, love, care, labour etc., betwixt the flock and the ministery. The flock thereby not knowing or having means to do their duty unto their ministery. The Minister's thereby so hindered, encumbered, and withdrawn, as they either slack, or neglect their duties to the flock.  
By this corrupt custom also sundry intolerable inconveniences & grievous mischiefs do ensue. This setting out land or certain rates by way of law or bargain in every parish or Congregation to the Minister, doth hinder the Church from the choice & use of such other Ministers as Christ in his Testament hath ordained to the government and service of his Church, the parish or Congregation neither endeavouring to have more, neither indeed suffered to have more, or by this means able or willing to keep more. This setting out lands, tithes etc., to the Minister by way of law, doth always presuppose of necessity a true established Church, and true Minister in those parishes unto the worlds end: those lands and tithes being appropriate & bound thereunto, and having none other owners. Which confirmeth and establisheth those gross popish errors of a personal and continual succession of Ministers, and local continuance of a visible Church. Again when this living is thus by law given to a Priest for term of his life, be he never so unable, unworthy, or negligent, the parish is so long bound unto him, and can by no means get rid of him. yea be he never so bad, his faults & errors never so fowl, they cannot without or until their Lord Bishop will, geat rid of him, they must maintain him and receive his Ministry, whether they will or no. further these annual livings by law and set stipends by rate, presuppose always one permanent and certain estate both of the Parrishoners & Ministers, The one, even every person ever to be able to pay so much, The other never to need more or less: Yea that always to the worlds end all the Parsons & all the Parrishoners of that town shall never need or be able to give more or less, whether the Lord send scarcity of plenty, dearth or cheapness, sickness or health, loss or advantage, children or no charged etc. Again, such unreasonable inequality is used in the distribution of these livings, the Parson of some one little Hamlet where are not twenty houses having one hundredth or two hundreth-pounds by year to live on, an other of a much greater town not having twenty pounds, yea peradventure ten pounds by year for that charged he hath to live upon: And this for ever without regard of the needs or labour of them, it being alike to them & their successors whosoever. To conclude, the tithes & set stipends of these Parish Priests being of the goods of the profane, most wicked, and ungodly, even of all their parish indifferently; yet are more odious & unmeet for any christian Ministers, who are not to stand herds to such dogs & swine to administer to them the gospel and sacraments for their goods and hire. It was not lawful for the Priest under the law to receive the offering of any stranger from the faith, such might not enter into or offer in the Temple. Neither now under the Gospel may the unbelieved have any fellowship with the Church, or communicate in or intermeddle with any actions of the Church. But this contribution is an action of the Church, a communion & duty of the Saints. How execrable them is this their sacrilege & covetousness, that thus make merchandise of the holy things of God, and let out themselves to hire even to the profane, for filthy lucre. The true Ministers of Christ may not be suspected, much less openly ●aynted of such peremptory faults as these, which disable him from all ministry in the Church, and are everywhere set down as undoubted marks of a false Prophet. By all which then as by all other arguments of their antichristian office, entrance, and administration, we may still and yet more strongly conclude them not to be the Ministers of Christ. Seing neither the office they execute, their entrance unto their office, their administration in their office, nor yet their maintenance, can be joined unto the Church, Ministry, or Gospel of CHRIST.  
THere yet remain a few base straggling offices of their Church, uzt. Their Churchwardens, Questmen, Parish Clark. These are all lay men (as they call them) yet intermeddle they with ecclesiastical affairs. their offices particularly I can neither describe, nor yet well distinguish. The Churchwardens are (as it seemeth) an other kind of Deacons, They gather and keep the Church stock and treasury, and also the penalties of such as come not to their divine service, and also distribute the same unto the poor, the reparations of the Church etc.: they keep one of the keys of the town chest. The questmen are liker unto Elders, these (I suppose) they look to the order and government of the Church, as well Priest as People. That the Priest use his ministerial vestures, vessels, and trincketts, read his service, homilies, injunctions, orderly. That the people do not bargain, talk, or walk in the Church and Church yard during the time of divine service; They also must look to the alehouses that there be no tippling or playing, during the said time: and who be absent from their Parish Church, and present such defaults at Mass Commissaries Court accordingly. The Parish Clerk he is the priests Accol●●th to help him to say his Matins and Euensonge, with his due versicles & Response, to help him at his Sacraments Marriages, Church-going, Visitations, Dirges, Rogations at all assays. He ringeth their bells to and after their service, their knells and soule-peales; he keepeth the Church door key; he sweepeth and ●rimmeth the Church; he nurtureth the boys and dogs that they be not to loud at service time; yea he may do yet many things more, if he have the Bishop's letter; as in time of need to christian children, and to read divine service in the absence of the Priest etc. To stand to show the forgery, several defaults, or dissimilitude of these offices from the Deacon or Elders that God hath appoyneted, were tedious and needless, they having neither mention nor use in Christ's Testament and Church.  
Thus now have we summarily perused all this rabble of the Ministry of the Church of England, and have not found any one of them right, or almost in any one point according to the rules of Christ's Testament, they are all strangers there, they belong not to Christ's body his Church, neither are they knit as members unto that head. But out of the smoke of the bottomless pit they came when that fallen Star 
Revel. 9 & 13. and 16. & 17. and 18. Chap.  Antichrist had the key thereof given him; to his body his kingdom the false Church they have always belonged, always served; to him in his several shapes they have always been knit, as the members to the head; from him and not from CHRIST we all with our bodily eyes see the Church of ENGLAND hath received them. We see they bear not CHRIST'S but Antichrists image, mark, life, power. What then should hinder this assertion, that they together with Antichrist their head do grow, live, reign, stand and fall as the branches with the tree. 
Luk. 11. 17.  Should a revoulte, division, and schism in a kingdom within it self? No, this but hasteneth the lords judgements the sooner to make it desolate. Can this revoulte and schism either transform or reform this ministery? Let their present estate judge. 
2 Thes. 2. 7.  Should Antichrist's changing his shape from his mystery to his exaltation, from his exaltation to his Consumption, 
Revel. 13.  Or his Ministers transforming and masking themselves under shows and visards of righteousness, 
2 Cor. 11. 13. 14. 15.  make them ever the better, or hide and defend them from the light? No, all things when they are reproved of the light are manifest. 
Ephes. 5. 13.  The light of the Gospel shall discover and abolish Antichrist. 
1 Cor. 3. 13. 14. 15.  As he rose by degrees, so shall he by degrees vanish; As he and his train rose out of the smoke of the bottomless pit Revel. 9 so shall they all go into utter darkness, 
2 Thes. 2. ●.  even thither again. 
Revel. 16.  The Beast and the false Prophet shallbe taken by him that rideth on the white horse and his holy army, these both shall alive be cast into that lake of fire burning in brimstone. The Lord himself hath spoken it. Revel. 19  
Now let us see what arguments Mr. GIFFARD after more than two years study hath brought us to approve his ministry by. He told us erewhile that they were true Ministers of the Gospel, Pastors & Teachers, had a true calling and ordination; Now come his proves. The ministery of the Gospel which bringeth the word of faith and reconciliation betwixt God and the world, is the true ministery of CHRIST, for the Devil and Antichrist ordain no such ministery. Now the ministery of the Church of England doth bring no word nor doctrine but the sacred Scriptures; it preacheth faith in God through CHRIST, and the doctrine of repentance, delivering the holy Sacraments as seals to confirm the same. Let all the schismatics of the world bark etc. I am loath to take Mr. GIFF. in a Parologisme at the first where reasons are so geason, lest hereafter we have no more, especially lest we have more variance about the form then about the matter in this, yet when he shall have reduced it to right form, he shall then but have begged that which we demanded, and still look that he should prove. uzt. That their ministry is the true ministry of the Gospel. This, because every true ministry of the Gospel is in some office, unto which office there must needs be a true and lawful calling, therefore we desired him to prove their ministry in the office, entrance, etc., by the scriptures. Mr. GIFF. giving us his bare word that they are Pastors & Teachers, making no proof thereof, quite overskippeth their office and entrance, and proveth them Ministers because they do administer. As if a private person should reason thus. I have knowledge of the law, I administer true justice and judgement, Therefore I am a true judge, a lawful Magistrate. Doth he think that this reason will excuse this usurper either before God or his Prince? If he then will have any better speed, let him prove his ministery directly and plainly by the scriptures, first in the office he challengeth, then in his caling unto his office, as all the Apostles and true Ministers of CHRIST have done, and aught to do. And then if he can justify his administration and be found faithful, he shall have praise with God and man. Otherwise by this balcking and begging that he should, and hath been so often urged to prove, he but manifesteth his weakness and forgery in those points, and but to loseth as many of these preposterous arguments, as he bringeth. Yet that he be not too far conceited, or any other deceived with this argument, against his next book, we give him to wiete, That the second part of his argument is a false and impudent assumption. The Church of ENGLAND bringeth and emposeth an other word and other ordinances than the holy scriptures, as that devised abominable liturgy their idol service-book, the rule and foundation, yea the very matter & substance of their public worship, and administration, their popish superstitious ceremonies and trincketts, their ungodly and antichristian ordinances, ministry, and government. To all these abominations they join, or rather subject and abuse the, Gospel. And therefore preach not faith in God nor CHRIST, neither the doctrines of repentance truly and sincerely: but deny God in their works and CHRIST in his offices. They bear the yoke of Antichrist, draw all the people unto them, souder them even the most wicked & impenitent in their sin and iniquity, with their prayers, preaching, and sacraments. Not suffering any to forsake these seen sins and abominations, or to come unto CHRIST, but drawing and holding all the land under the wrath of God etc.  
NExt he by the way maketh a learned apology for the dumb Pastors of the Church of England his brethren, against whom if it be objected that their ministry is not the ministry of reconciliation, because they cannot preach the Gospel; He here setteth down a learned note by way of two rare distinctions. We must first he saith distinguish betwixt the ministry & the Minister. The man may be of the Devil, and yet his ministry of God. Then we must distinguish betwixt the function yt self, and the execution of the same. As when the office is laid upon one that cannot preach, the function itself is entire, the defect only in the execution thereof; Therefore the ministry of the Church of England is the ministry of the Gospel, though some do not, and others cannot preach. Sure this is so subtilely contrived, as men of mean judgement & capacity shall never be able to perceive how it is or may be brought about. The first Distinction is granted, so the sin of the Minister be secret, or not such as disableth him to the ministry. But what of this, may any open, unworthy, or insufficient person be a Minister? Or is the ministry of such a one good & acceptable? There is no such consequence from hence to be gathered. To the second in like manner it followeth not, because we may distinguish and put difference betwixt the office yt self and the execution of the office, that therefore any office of the Church may be given to any open unsufficient, or unworthy person; Or if it be, that the ministry of such a one is good or acceptable: For the calling of the Church cannot enable such open insufficient to the ministry, whom God refuseth, or make acceptable that ministration, which God disalloweth. Now than these dumb Pastors that cannot preach, are apparently insufficient and incapable of that office, therefore no calling of men can make them true and lawful Ministers: And being no true or lawful Ministers, their ministration is then unlawful, accursed, abominable to God & men. These then being allowed Ministers, and their ministration publicly by law approved, and received in the Church of England, we may conclude the public ministry and ministration of the Church of England to be unlawful, accursed, and abominable thus far forth, notwithstanding Mr. Giffardes' pair of distinctions. Otherwise, if he laboured to prove the ministery of the Gospel to be in it self always entire, holy, and blessed, notwithstanding the infirmities & faults of men: this all men will grant, and needed not his learned distinctions to prove the same. But what is this to prove the ministry of these dumb Pastors, Or the other ministry of the Church of England to be that ministery of the Gospel: which we for all the reasons above alleged confidently deny.  
HIs second reason. Such as have the caling & ordination of the Church, have the ministry of CHRIST, For it is given to the Church to call & ordain Ministers. In the next section his Minor followeth. In England the Ministers have their caling & ordination by the Church of GOD, Therefore etc. To the Mayor he addeth a clause, that it may be a true caling notwithstanding some faults of ignorance or otherwise; So he understand this otherwise to be of negligence, and not of any wilful & obstinate transgressions: Or not any of those peremptory faults excepted by the holy Ghost, which disable the elect & disannul the election, than we thus far assent. But when we reason of the caling of the ministri of England, we speak not of a true caling, though unperfect with some faults of ignorance or negligence, but of a false counterfeit & antichristian calling, which we have proved & affirm theirs to be. The caling of the Church ought always to be it caling of Christ prescribed in his Testament, which theirs is not. To his Minor now, first we deny the Church of England to be the true established Church of Christ. He proveth it thus That people which hath forsaken heresies and false worship, and embraced the doctrine of the Gospel hath in it the true Church which hath the power. We observe much subtlety and fear in this position. For whereas he ought to have affirmed Are the true Church, and have the power, he fearfully & subtly saith hath in it the true Church, which hath the power, not daring to justify or join issue of their outward estate, but leaving himself a starting hole to flee to such secret ones as God may call and have amongst them. We doubt not but God hath in Turckye or Persia, yea in the Church of ROME many dear elect; but should we therefore say that Turcky, Persia, Rome, are the true Church? We affirm also & will approve against all the false Prophets of the world, that in this land the Lord hath such a people that have thus forsaken heresies & false worship, embraced the Gospel, and have this power of CHRIST. But we deny this their Church to consist of this people, to have forsaken heresies & false worship, to have truly embraced the Gospel, or to have this power of CHRIST, to elect, ordain, excommunicate, or to redress any enormity: but are driven to these antichristian bishops for all these. Who receive not power of the Church, but usurp and exercise absolute power over the Church, yea the whole power of the Church, as hath been showed. Which is unlawful either for the Church to give, or for any true christian to receive or execute. Neither can th'authority of any mortal men or Parliament make that lawful, which God in his word condemneth and forbiddeth. And so even by this his own allegation, all this ministry made by & standing under this usurped inordinate antichristian power of the bishops, are also unlawful. To which if we add the unlawfulness of the office these Ministers are called unto and execute, the unlawfulness of their calling in the whole manner thereof unto, by, and in no flock certain, the unlawfulness of the maintainers, as also of the ordained, their open ambition, greediness, and insufficientcy, their false manner of probation and ordination, with all the ungodly and execrable ceremonies, vows, oaths, subscriptions used to the same, none can mistake this calling and ordination of the Ministers of ENGLAND, for that true & holy election and ordination of the Church of CHRIST: without which true caling there can be no true Minister. No true Church may use or can justify any such false calling as theirs. And so still we must leave Mr. give. to prove the office & caling of his ministry.  
THis Clerk proceedeth to an other reason. That ministry is of God, which is to bring men to the faith, and to build up the body of CHRIST. The ministry of England is to none other end. Therefore etc. The Minor he proveth Because the whole drift, scope, and burden laid upon them, is, to feed with wholesome doctrine & to guide in the ways of godliness the sheep of CHRIST walking before them in godly conversation. Mr. G. said erewhile that the Ministers of England were no intruders: But sure ut seemeth they are very nimble lepers which skip over the hatch into the house, & will not stay until the Master of the house call, until the Porter of the house open, but without any lawful calling or entrance will needs thrust themselves Ministers upon the Lord and his Church whether he and they will or no. Yea Mr. Giff. will prove himself & these his presumptuous companions true Ministers without this caling or entrance, by the ends of their administration, although the Lord of the house never called them to be builders, or committed unto them the work and ministry of his house. The deceitfulness and disorder of these kind of arguments we have above showed, and with the same general answer might dismiss this. Save that by the way we must give him to understand, That his Assumption is a shameless presumption. They build not upon but destroy the house of God, the body of Christ. This their work, the present estate of their Church witnesseth to their face, and showeth what manner of worckmen they are: where we find not one pin, nail, or hook in due order and proportion according to the true pattern. They feed not the lords sheep but the lords goats, and that not with wholesome food, with sincere milk, that they might grow and be increased thereby, as the general sin, prophannes, and ignorance of all estates both Priests and people declare. Neither guide they in the way of godliness, but in the ways of destruction and calamity. They have all declined & been made together unprofitable. And the way of peace they have not known. And as for the conversation of these Priests, it may well be an example to the flock in all idolatry, superstition, impiety, unfaithfulness, apostasy, halting and dissembling with God and man; wordliness, covetousness, deceit, and what not. So that the saying of the Prophet is come about, That there are like people like Priest. Al this Mr. G. in his festered conscience knew before, and that his shameless assumption would not pass with his adversary with whom he had to do, and therefore he leaveth the proof of this assumption, as also of his office and entrance, and yet again assayeth by a new argument of the effects, together with that which is properly adjoined to the Ministry of CHRIST, to prove his ministery.  
THat ministery with the'xecution whereof there is joined the effectual grace, power, blessing and operation of the holy Ghost to the true conversion of men's souls, is not a ministery of the Devil nor of Ant●christ, nor cometh not in the life and power of the Beast, but is indeed the true ministery of CHRIST. But such grace, power, blessing, operation is found in the ministery of England. Therefore. First here still must be observed a begging and assuming of a true Ministry, which as yet is not proved: Neither doth this reason prove a Ministry, so much as show the infallible effects of true doctrine & true preaching, whether it be by Ministers, or by other faithful, which have the gift of prophecy, knowledge, interpretation utterance etc. For, far from the truth is it to think, that only Ministers beget and win to the faith (as some most shamelsse Bishops, and senseless Priests of this age have published and maintain.) Then might they aswell with the Papists permit the word of God only unto Priests: yea suffer none but Priests to speak of the word or holy doctrines, 
Act. 20. 32  if this use and end of the word were taken away, if the blessing and power of God should not go with his holy word and truth in the mouth of all his servants, 
jam. 1. 21  both to call unto the faith, an to super-edifie in the faith: else should all duties in families, all mutual exhortations, 
Rom 11. 16  admonitions, 
Heb. ●0. 24. 25.  conferences cease. 
1 Thes. 5.  But having the commandment of God to all these, 
1 Cor. 14.  the evidence and testimony of the blessed and comfortable effects following the faithful testimonies of all Christ's Disciples in all ages, 
Acts. 8. 4. & 11. 19 etc.  and continual experience hereof amongst out selves daily, we dare affirm that others besides Ministers may convert souls and begeate faith. So then this argument of the effects proveth not so much a true ministry, as it doth prove true doctrine. For no false doctrine can beget true faith, though many which be no Ministers may beget true faith. Mr. Giff. them reasoneth very corruptly & deceitfully in attributing the conversion of souls as proper & peculiar to the ministry, which is not so, and in bringing these effects to prove a true ministry, which only are to prove true doctrine. And now to Mr. give. his assumption. We deny that any false ministry hath promise of blessing, or is sent of God for the conversion of souls, but on the contrary we find it accursed, and sent of God for the seducing of the reprobate. The ministry then of the Church of England being proved false in Office, Entrance, and Administration, can have no such promise or blessing of God as Mr. Giff. assumeth. If it be demanded then whether all under this ministry be damned. I say it is a new question, and kept secret to the Lord, who only knoweth who be his, when & how to call them. It becometh not us to give any such final judgement of matters not known unto us: Yet this we may be warrant of the whole scripture say, That the ways of the false Church and ministry are the ways of death, and have no promise of salvation. But for the persons we judge charitably, even so long and so far as we may, measuring them by ourselves, as we sometimes were, hoping and not doubting, but God hath many thousands dear elect there, yea even in the Popish Churches, whom he in his due time by his appointed means will call. If Mr. Giff. here insist & say that many of those thousands are covert by their ministry, Therefore their ministry is not in the power of ANTICHRIST, or of the Devil, but of God, having that sure seal that work of the holy Ghost. We have above answered that this rather approveth the doctrine than the ministry, and is to be attributed to the word of God, rather than to the person of man. further, that the false ministry hath no promise of blessing. Yet do we not herebie restrain the infinite power of God from saving or calinge his elect even by the doctrine of the false Church: which though it be so thoroughly leavened, corrupted, perverted, abused, yet can the Lord bring the truth of his law and gospel which is there read, and after their manner preached in such sort, ●o the ears & consciences of his chosen, as it shall both show them their degenerate estate, ●ow guilty they are of the breach of God's law, how liable to his wrath, and also show them the true means of their restoring, redemption, reconciliation, salvation. Yet this doth neither justify the false Minister of his ministration, no more than when a young Boy, dumb Minister, or unbelieved profane person reading the holy scriptures, or some other book of true doctrine, some of the hearers (God so opening their understanding) should thereby be brought to the acknowledging and faith of Christ, the fear & love of God etc. This Boy, reading Priest, profane person, by reading is proved a true Minister, a true preacher, a true christian; Or these that are thus won, comforted etc., to seek no other Minister or means of their salvation then this reading by these persons. Let the doctrine then in that point whereby men are thus begotten to these beginnings of faith, or to any increase thereof, be always true and sound so far forth, the manner & time of apprehending, be the work and power of God, the means & instruments of conveying or bringing, variable at the will & appointment of God. Yet are we only to s●eke, use, and rest in those means which the Lord hath ordained for our instruction and leading forth in the will and ways of God, which means only have warrant & promise of blessing unto us, howsoever the Lord by his infinite power and working can and no doubt doth save some in Turckey amongst the heathen, in the false Church amongst the false worshippers, by what means it pleaseth him: yet may not we hereupon either resort unto or remain in these forbidden places in hope of these effects, because God (if such be his will) can save us here, or if it be not his will to save us then no true Church of ministry can avail us. This were most highly and dangerously to tempt God, a reprobate kind of reasoning. God his will unto us is, that we always obey and rest in his revealed will, and not to presume upon his infinite will and power, which he keepeth secret unto himself. This caused the holy Martyrs and faithful at all times, and us the Lords most unworthy witnesses at this time, after that God's spirit had wrought effectually in their and our hearts, and opened our eyes to see part of his holy truth, as also some of the heinous abominations committed, defended, and wilfully persisted in in the false Church and ministry, constantly even to death & bands to witness against the same, and to forsake the false Church notwithstanding all the pretextes, glosses, and arguments the false Prophet shall adorn the Harlot with, or make for his Ministry. So dear is the love of God & of his holy truth unto us, as we can suffer ourselves neither by men or Angels be drawn into any seen or willing transgression of his holy word. And as for these arguments of Mr. Giffard what other are they then the Papists have brought against the first faithful witnesses john hus, Jerome of P●●ge, Luther, Caluine, Frith, ●indal etc., Or may bring at this day against all the Churches that are departed from them. Unto the execution of our Ministry is joined the effectual grace, power, blessing, and operation of the holy Ghost to the true conversion of some men's souls, Therefore our Ministry is not of the devil or Antichrist, but indeed the true ministry of Christ. else all that have lived thus many hundred years before you in our Church, and knew not these new learn you hold, are damned: else all that have died in our Church are damned: yea else you must hold all the Kings and Princes, Nobles, Pieres, and people in our Church reprobates etc. But let us come to yourselves ye that are the authors of this Schism. Where had you your faith, your first knowledge of God and of Christ, if not in this Church by our ministry? we have the true scriptures amongst us, we teach truly concerning the Godhead and the thee persons thereof, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost, though distinct in persons, yet one God etc.: We preach Christ in his two natures very God and very man. That he came into the world for the salvation of all mankind. That God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have life everlasting. We preach Christ crucified for our sins, dead, buried, risen again, ascended, glorified. We preach him in his three offices to be our King, Priest, and Prophet: We preach all the fundamental articles of our christian faith; and as we preach, so you believe all these. Yea and we appeal to your consciences whether you have found joy and comfort in your own souls at the preaching of these doctrines. Again, we preach the laws of God in the tables, and beat down such sins as we see to be contrary to the same, in such sort as many are drawn to repentance, to hatred, sorrow, and remorse for sin: And these again we raise up with comfort and hope of forgiveness, and with the promises of eternal life. These things if ye schismatics feel not, yet unto many others which by our preaching are converted unto the Lord indeed, which unto fear & trembling do feel the power & sweetness of the lively word, we may say as the Apostle unto the Corinthians in like case. If I be not an Apostle unto others yet am I one unto you, ye are the seal of mine Apostleship in the Lord. And as for you Lutherans, if you continue not, that is not our default, if you fall from grace. It is enough for us that you have felt this majesty of the word, and it sufficeth to prove our ministry that the power of the holy Ghost goeth with y●, when men have been so moved, though they continue not, seeing the reprobate may feel this power and taste this sweetness for a tyme. Now then our ministry being thus proved by the law and the Gospel, and by the testimony of the holy Ghost in these powerful effects, How can you thus separate from the means of your salvation, from that ministry which hath begotten in you, or at least doth begeat in others this knowledge, faith, comfort, & c? Our ministry them being thus proved, our Church must needs follow, for a true ministry doth not belong, neither is at any time found in a false Church. Yea you must grant that whilst we hold the true foundation, we are the true Church, though we err in matters of circumstance & other doctrines, as you think: yet that taketh not away our being of a Church. The Churches at Corinth, Gallatia, Asia abounded with many faults, errors, corruptions, as we read, yet are saluted by the Apostles, recorded by the holy Ghost as true Churches. Now that we hold the foundation, our confession of the articles of our christian faith, the ten commandements, the lords prayer, etc. (which you also confess and use) show. Therefore whilst you depart from us, you depart from the true Church. Hereupon they might also use those rhetorical flowers of Mr. GIFFARD his divinity to rail, reproach, and invaye. That they are rank Donatists, Lutherans, ignorant, furious, franctick, schismatics, yea damnable heretics, forsaking the ministery and truth of God, condemning the Church of God, bringing the holy ministery thereof into contempt, and so bring in flat atheism, barbarism, rebellion against Magistrates etc. How thinketh Mr. Giff. would not these arguments fit the, Papists aswell against them, as they do him against us? Is he not driven to hard shift, when he must borrow weapons of them to defend himself, his Church, ministry, worship, government? They must needs stand fast when they are built upon their grounds. Let him then first answer the Papists to these reasons, before he bring them against us, and then if he be not satisfied he shall hear what we can say to them. For sure if they be not of force to bring them home again to their Mother of ROME, they will never persuade us to go back to them. In the mean time Mr. give. we signify unto you concerning this reason which you urge and dilate, That it is a ground of Anabaptistry to justify open transgression by inward motions. It is a ground of Atheism to plead for or tolerate sin, because of such good effects as you imagine to proceed thereof.  
Mr. GIFFARD his next argument is drawn from our confession. We confess that they were blessed Martyrs that suffered in Q. MARY'S days. But they were converted by the same ministry which we have now. They had the same motions at the preaching of Latimer, Hoper, Taylor, Bradford, which our people have no● at our preaching and Sacraments touching saith, repentance, and resolution to die for the testimony of the Lord. Therefore let the Brownistes and all other wicked schismatics bark that we h●●e no ministry etc. This reason hangeth upon the same thread with this other last before, and is built upon the same popish and Anabaptistical grounds. Touching the persons of these Martyrs, we have already in our first reply unto your answer, set down our christian opinion and judgement. Yet can this argument of their persons no more justify this antichristian ministry of Lord Bishops, parish Parsons, merceanarie vagrant Preachers, than it hath pleasured the Pope heretofore, who had as many godly predecessors and Martyrs to boast of as they. The forgery of their whole administration, preaching, worship, sacraments, is further discovered, than these wind-shaken fig-leaves can hide the shame thereof. The truth is, howsoever the Lord doth reserve the canonical Scriptures, and some other doctrines of the godhead, the suffering, resurrection, and glory of Christ, of the judgement and life to come etc., in the false Church and ministery, and by his secret power and will can use the said scriptures and doctrines to the salvation of some, yet these effects are not to be ascribed to the false ministery or their corrupt ministration, adulterate Sacraments etc., which have no promise of blessing: 
2 Thes. 2. 9 10. 11. 12.  And therefore those inward motions and comforts received by them, are delutions, without ground or warrant of God's word, 
Esai. 66. 3. 4.  the actions as they do them not being acceptable, but accursed in Go●s sight. The faith and repentance wrought by their 〈◊〉 appeareth in the general estate and life of their people, 
Ie●●▪ 6. 19 20. 〈◊〉.  yea of their whose Church. As to that christian zeal, courage; and constancy to die for the testimony of the truth (which he popish lie caleth Resolution) and saith is wrought by their ministry, we shall begin to believe it, when they begin to walk in the truth, and to shake off that antichristian yoke they stand under; but whilst in this manner they betray their whole ministry and gospel, the whole power and liberty of the Church into the hands of these antichristian Bishops, standing their sworn and marked soldiers, administering & preaching after their prescription and limitation, being bound by oath not to preach against any thing by public authority established, how odious or enormous soever, 
Pet. 2.  but for fear & filthy lucre stand ministers of all these abominations, we are warned by the holy Ghost not to be deceived with their swelling words of vanity, promising us liberty, whilst they themselves stand the bond servants of corruption. And for the author of these blaspheamous books Mr. Giffard, who is apostatate & fallen away even from that little faith and light which he sometimes seemed to have, building now again the things he sometimes destroyed returned with the dog to his own vomit, & as the washed sow to the wallowing in the mire, yea most cursedly blaspheming the truth of God and the poor witnesses thereof, as a most bitter & professed enemy fight in most hostile manner against the kingdom of Christ, for & under the kingdom of Antichrist, we shall believe that he will suffer for the Gospel of Christ when Q. MARIE returneth again to persecute: In the mean while we say with the holy Ghost: It had been better for this man never to have known the truth, then after he had acknowledged it to turn from the holy commandment given unto him.  
YEt remaineth an other odd popish reason of Mr. G. his old store, brought by him in his first answer unto certain articles of ours, as the only proof he then could find for his ministry, uzt: The affirmation and consent of other Pastors and Churches, sending such as doubted to inquire of these strangers their judgement of the Church and ministry of England, and in the mean time counciling them to suspend their judgement. This reason and council because we rejected as insufficient, unsound, and popish, requiring rather some proof by God's word of themselves (wherein we wholly rested, and not in the opinions of men) then thus to be sent in this case from the learned ministry of England unto strangers to know what they think of their ministery, as appeareth in our reply, to which we refer the reader for our answer to this argument. Hereupon Mr. G. in his first public treatise against the Donatists of ENGLAND reneweth this old argument or quarrel rather by contriving this odious question. Wither the people in these controvercies ought to be sent unto such heretics and schismatics as we are, or unto the learned Pastors of other Church's. This question after he had thus charitably framed, he as gravely and reverently discusseth with these and such like holy christian passages. See how sottishly ye cavil. Blind presumptuous heretical Sch●sm●tickes. Yours is the course of all arrogant proud heretics and schismatics which covet to have the people depend upon them, that they might have fame. Or unto unlearned rash Brownistes, intruding themselves without caling and running before they be sent. As the harl●●● and whores of the stews that boast and glory of their chastity. Who is more ●ierce and outrageous, more uncharitable in condemning then ye Brownistes? And yet ye brag of such patience and charity as can not be overcome. The Devil counterfeiting Christ's voice in heretical Schismatics should not be able to allure and call away the sheep from their shepherds etc. part of 78. and of the. 79. page of his first book? How think you, hath not this clerk been well nourtured and brought up, that can thus learnedly devise and handle a question and refute his adversaries in less than one page of his book? He that findeth not these those mighty weapons through God to cast down holds and reasonings, and to the captivating all understanding into th'obedience of Christ; He that findeth not this that quiet and gentle spirit, that heavenly peaceable wisdom from above, that lenity and meekness wherewith the Minister of Christ instructeth the contrary minded, might even herebie doubt of Mr. G. his ministry. And see after this storm is a little blown over, and he hath somewhat discharged and eased his full stomach, in the end he alloweth of our course and council for the trial and proof of their ministry by the word of God only, and not by the opinions of any men whomsoever; Saying that it is the same in effect (if we could see) that himself gave before. Peradventure Mr. G. meaneth, if we could see into his mind, for in his writing there was no such matter. But well, seeing we are agreed of this course and trial of their ministry by the scriptures, why are we thus reviled and reproached for consenting unto, demanding, and expecting this trial? yea why is not this christian peaceable course taken, this trial and proof made? why hath not Mr. G. at the least approved his ministry in the Office, Entrance, and administration by the evident scriptures? And thereby both have approved themselves and convinced us, before he had pronounced this balsphemouse sentence against us, who acknowledge with reverence every word of God, thereunto submitting our whole faith & life to be tried, corrected, directed in all things, which reproachful sentence Michael himself that head of Angels and men, dared not give even against the Devil in controvercie betwixt them. These controvercies betwixt them and us being of no less moment than Moses body, and none of us our own judges in this case, but all standing to the judgement of God by his word, aught to have been more soberly and reverently handled. Wherein what Mr. G. hath failed we leave him to his accounts before that dreadful judge, where the consent and applausion of the Bishops and clergy of England shall not excuse him for all or any of these despiteful reproaches and fowl slanders that he hath brought up and published in these his blasphemous books, upon the Lords faithful servants and poor witnesses in bands against this antichristian ministry and their ungodly proceed. Which if here with all the deipe learning of Satan cannot be hid or defended, how should they stand before his face that hath his eyes like a flame of fire, 
Revel 2.  that searcheth the hearts & reins, and giveth every man according to his works. And for us, seeing we find this their whole ministry by examining them by and comparing them unto the rules of Christ's Testament, to be false, forged, and antichristian in their office, entrance, administration, and maintenance, to have no place or mention in Christ's Church; Seing we before our eyes see them to have served in and belonged unto Antichrist's▪ even the Pope's kingdom and throne, the false Church, with all the abominable idolatries therein, we dare boldly affirm and conclude, That they keeping these offices cannot now belong unto or serve in Christ's kingdom, his Church, neither be kint unto Christ as their head. But as the Holy Ghost wittnesseth of them, they have a King over them, the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in hebrewe Abaddon, and in Greek Apollyon, in all languages and places, 
Revel. 9 11  the Destroyer. And as we find them, so according to the commandment of God, we leave and avoid them: turning our eye and speech now a little to the fourth principal cause of our dislike of, and separation from the Church of England.   

THE FOURTH PRINCIPAL CAUSE OF OUR SEPARATION FROM THE Church of England, is.  
4 FOR that their Churches are ruled by, and remain in subjection unto an Antichristian & ungodly government, clean contrary to the institution of our Saviour Christ.  
FRom this proposition is this argument manifestly and directly drawn. No true established▪ Church of Christ may willingly receive, or wittingly stand subject under any other ecclesiastical government them Christ hath prescribed and instituted. But the Church of England willingly receiveth and wittingly standeth subject under a strange ecclesiastical government, other than that Christ hath prescribed and instituted. Therefore the Church of England is not the true established Church of CHRIST.  
The charged & argument being so evidient & inevitable as Mr. G. in his first answer (whilst he stood of the Reformistes side a suitor for Reformation) durst neither for shame deny, not yet for fear affirm, he sought by moving, and after his manner proving, a new question, to obscure and turn away, at the least (until he saw further how the times would go) to shift off the present proposition, that pressed so sore, with such ambiguous doubtful delphic words & speeches, as might be interpreted in what sense himself list, And he salfly turn to that side that were likest to prevail & carry the credit in the world. First by way of Supposition and Admission, in these words. If it were admitted that there is some yoke of antichristian government, Under which the poor Church may groan, is it therefore no longer the spouse of CHRIST? Mr. Giff▪ having thus entrenched himself, might issue out of this sconce and turn to which side he would. As well might he from hence have stood of the Reformistes faction, by saying that he never sought to plead for, or to defend this government of these Prelates (but even in these words he doth affirm and pronounce it to be a yoke of antichristian government, a bondage, an oppression of the Church etc.) As now being revolted to the Pontifical side, he saith, he did but propound it by way of question, supposition, admission. For the present government, he holdeth it the true & very government of Christ in substance & matter, howsoever it have not the same form, and be not executed in that manner which Christ hath prescribed; Of which form there is great question, whether it be permanent or variable; Neither will he meddle with the discussing thereof, because he will displease neither side. But this he held, and holdeth, That the true Church may be oppressed and remain under some yoke of antichristian government. That it is the lot of the Church to be oppressed with outward bondage, to be made to keep the vinyeard which is not her own, to be beaten of the watch men etc. Mr. give. was answered unto these, That there is great difference betwixt civil bondage, and ecclesiastical bondage: Betwixt outward oppression or persecution, and an antichristian yoke or government. That the Church had been or might be in civil bondage unto, outwardly oppressed and persecuted by either civil magistrates, as Pharaoh, Nabuchadnezzar etc., Or by false ecclesiastical Ministers, proud antichristian usurpers, as P●shur, Caiaphas, Annanias etc. But yet that the Church of God may never by the one or the other sort be brought into bondage of, and wittingly remain in subjection unto any yoke of antichristian government, not even to the least law, tradition, or devise of man, which they see to be contrary to the word of God. For this was showed to be a loss of christian liberty, if they should by the will or power of any mortal man or men whosoever, 
Gal. 4. 9 10. etc.  be again entangled in any yoke of bondage, or brought in subjection of any law, devise, or tradition of man, seem it never so holy or expedient, 
Gal. 5. 1. etc.  be it Circumcision▪ Days, Feasts, Fasts, Meats etc., 
Col. 2.  To be so contrary to the Gospel, as the truth thereof should not continue amongst them, if they should give place to any man in the least of these things by way of subjection for the space of an hour Gal. 2. 4. 5. To add unto the word of God, to superordeyne unto the Testament of Christ, yea to abrogate the Testament of Christ. Gal. 3. 15. To worship God in vain Mat. 15. 9 Not to hold the head, but to be rashly puffed up in the sense of their own flesh Coll. 2. 18. 19 It was showed that Christ is the only lawegiver, King, Husband, and Lord of & in his Church. That one kingdom cannot receive two kings, One marriage bed two husbands, One house two Lords so contrary as Christ and Antichrist, at on and the same instant, And that one neck cannot be said to bear two yokes, and draw in them both at one instant: Neither one person be a faithful subject, wife, servant to two so divers and contrary Kings, Husbands, Lords, 
2 Cor. 6. 15  as CHRIST and Antichrist are. CHRIST divideth not, neither hath part, 
Reu. 11. &. 12. Chap.  fellowship, or communion with Antichrist. There is continual war betwixt their kingdoms and subjects, betwixt the false and true Church, 
Gal. 4. 20  the false and true seed, they that are borne after the flesh, 
Io●. 15. 18. etc. and 16. 2. 3.  persecuting them that are borne after the spirit. It was showed that we are his servants and subjects to whom we obey. That this yoke and bondage of Antichrist, breaketh the wedlock, breaketh the Covenant with CHRIST; 
Math. 6. 24  CHRIST'S love and Covenant being no longer bound or plight to us, 
Rom. 6. 16  than we keep faith to him. which faith is forfeited, and war ended, by yielding and standing in bondage to Antichrist, by taking and bearing his yoke. which bondage and yoke was showed and proved to be the badge of Antichrist, 
Reu. 13. 15 16. 17 and 17. 15  the mark of the Beast, which all the miserable multitudes upon which the Harlot the false Church sitteth, are compelled to receive in their foreheads or in their hands, 
Gal. 4. 26 &. 5. 1. 2  wherebily the children of mount Sina are known from the children of jerusalem that is above and is free with all her children: 
john. 8. 32. etc.  For all which children our Saviour Christ hath purchased a full and perfect liberty at a dear and precious price, having given unto all his children the arrhabon of his spirit, 
Ro. 8. 14. 15  not the spirit of bondage but the spirit of adoption as sons. 
2 Cor. 3. 17  And where this spirit is, there is liberty. For if we be sons, then are we free and no bond servants. For the bond servant abideth not in the house for ever, 
john. 8. 35  but the son abideth for ever. 
Coll. 1. 12. 13  It was also showed him to be a blasphemous error to say That to bear Antichrist's yoke and government, is the lot of CHRIST'S Church. To conclude, it was made plain unto him how fowllie he misunderstoode, abused, falsified, and perverted those places of the Song by him alleged to prove that blasphemous error. So that if Mr. G. would either have been advertised or advised, to make and put difference betwixt civil bondage and subjection, and an antichristian bondage and yoke, betwixt bodily oppression and spiritual subjection, Or would duly have pondered our opinions, reasons, and proves, Or would have been admonished of his former dotages and errors, he could not again in these points thus boldly have resisted the evident truth, turned away the direct scriptures, unjustly charged and blasphemed us, persisted in his old d●●est●ble errors, tun headlong into new & more, and unsufferably abused and perverted the holy scriptures thereunto.  
WE never denied, and therefore may evil be charged to hold, That the Church might not be held in civil bondage, bodily oppression, persecution etc., by wicked ungodly guides both civil and ecclesiastical. But what of this? may it hereupon he concluded, that therefore the Church may be held under Antichrist's yoke in ecclesiastical or spiritual bondage? There is no such consequence of this. yet this is the state of the question propounded by Mr. G. in his first answer. And this he there endeavoured to prove by this reason, as also by the places of the Song. And now again laboureth to bring to pass by an odd subtle distinction or division of his own devising, and by sundry more places of scripture. He divideth this antichristian yoke into two sorts, a strict yoke, and a large yoke. His strict or proper yoke, he saith is only spiritual and inward, where the faith and conscience are burdened & be in subjection to receive Antichrist his laws and worship. The lardger yoke is, when the Pastors of the Church do usurp more than they ought in external government, or tyrannously abuse the power committed into their h●nds. This he calleth some antichristian yoke. The first he saith cannot be borne without falling from the freedom we have in CHRIST. The second (as the lot of the Church) may be willingly suffered and wittingly borne, and yet remain the Church of CHRIST. and this by sundry places of scripture he endeavoureth to prove.  
First unto his distinction or division of an antichristian yoke into strait and large, outward and inward, we acknowledge it without the compass of our reading, or understanding. We still affirm that no yoke or government but only Christ's, may be borne or received of the true Church. We further say, and already have proved, that all the laws and ordinances of Christ's Testament (how outwardly and small soever they may seem) concern the conscience: and that the wilful omission and transgression thereof, bondeth both body and soul unto judgement, without repentance. So likewise we hold, that every antichristian yoke chargeth and bindeth the conscience, both body and soul, It being opposite unto, and a transgression of CHRIST'S laws and ordinances. And therefore wonder how these Academical divines these pleaders for iniquity d●re hatch us these poisoned distinctions, of lardg and strait antichristian yokes, the one binding, the other not concerning the conscience. Except they can show God's law. Or else some transgression of God's law that bindeth and chargeth not the conscience. Until Mr. give. can do this, he must give us leave not to receive his curious distinction of large and strait yoke, outward and inward. We think also his reason somewhat hardly constrained, when he concludeth, because antichrist's yoke is spiritual, Therefore only inward. We call it spiritual because it cometh (as also Antichrist himself doth) by the effectual working of Satan: As also because it is wholly about spiritual and ecclesiastical actions and proceedings. But shall we therefore say it is only inward? Might not by these reasons the whole visible Church yt self, all the public ministration, actions, and ordinances thereof, as also every person & member thereof be said only inward, because they are all said spiritual? Again it seemeth that Mr. G. little understandeth what an Antichristian yoke is, that termeth every sin and disorder arising in the Church, an antichristian yoke. We confess the Church may transgress of negligence or ignorance, yea & so suffer such ungodly presumptuous persons & Ministers to abuse their power for a season; yet this is not willingly to bear, or wittingly to receive any antichristian yoke; neither cease they hereupon to be true Churches, whilst they despise not admonition, neither refuse to repent being reproved. Yet this we say, the Church greatly sinneth in suffering such presumptuous inordinate persons, whom they ought to cast out. And if so be the Church either want will, and refuse to cast them out being admonished; or want power and be not able to cast them out being discovered, but it brought in subjection & remaineth in bondage to these guides, it ceaseth in this estate unto our judgement to be the true Church of Christ.  
And now to the scriptures Mr. G. bringeth, that the true Church may wittingly and willingly be brought into bondage of some antichristian yoke Ezech. 34. jerem. 5. 31. jer. 20. 1. joh. 7. 13. john. 9 22. First we say, that these Ministers were by office and caling true Ministers of the Temple, but their Ministers by office and calling are not, and so no comparison. Then we say, that these were now so wholly degenerate and apostatate in jehoiakim and Zedechiahs' times, and the whole state so corrupted and fallen from God into most execrable idolatries, as they were not to be held the true Churches of God, but were pronounced by the holy Ghost whores, murderers, idolaters, so commanded to be judged, esteemed, and forsaken of all the faithful: As every where in those prophecies of Ezechiel & jeremiah appeareth, & we have lardglie in the SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION proved, And himself in that estate confessed, that they ought to be abandoned by the godly. For the general estate in the time of our Saviour CHRIST'S Ministry and sufferings, we have also proved, that they were that malignant persecuting Church, which did excommunicate CHRIST and all that confessed and believed in him: from whom our Saviour and his Disciples separated.  
And now to the place of the third epistle of john. I written to the Church, but of them Diotrephes loving the primacy receiveth us not. For this if I come, I will bring to remembrance the works which he doth, prating against us with malicious words, and not content in these, neither himself receiveth the brethren, and them that would he forbiddeth, and casteth them out of the Church. These verses I have thus englished to the word, because me thinks the usual translation (though in it self not evil) seemeth a little too much to nourish some false collections, which neither the words nor circumstance of the text will bear. But now what will Mr. G. gather or conclude from this place? Diotrephes he saith abused the power of government ambitiously. If he mean the power of the whole Church, the power of communication, it would be showed and proved wherein. If he say, in that he cast the brethren out of the Church, We would first know of him what brethren the Apostle there speaketh of, whether those strangers, or such members of that congregation as were willing to receive those strangers, and whether they were cast out by way of excommunication. If he say those members that were willing etc., we affirm the whole context, the argument of the Epistle precedent, the faults of Diotrephes reckoned up, & the admonition subsequent, to show the contrary, that he meaneth of the other godly strangers, Gaius in the premises being commended for interraignement of those strangers. Diotrephes here blamed for these faults, Of an ambitious humour loving & aspiring to be chief or first, and could not endure to be under the Apostles. 1. Therefore he received not the Apostles letter, 2. He prattled against them with evil words, 3. neither himself received these strangers, 4. But forbade them that would, 5. And so kept or cast them out of the Church. The admonition was, that they should not imitate evil, but good etc. Many reasons might be drawn from these circumstances, from sundry words in the original, but especially by the right dividing of these two verses it will appear, not to be meant of the abuse of any censure of the Church, of excommunication. As also by the exhortation drawn from these faults. For how could Gaius or any other of the Church imitate him in this, when there was no more Pastors of that congregation but Diotrephes (if he were a Pastor as they suppose) and by their rule only the Pastor may excommunicate? But what now if it were admitted (which can never by this scripture be proved) that Diotrephes did both usurp & abuse the power and government of the Church, what will Mr. G. collect and enforce from hence? First that this tyrannous oppression did not make them to be no longer Christ's Church which remained under him. Well, and what will, he conclude hereupon, That these Parishes which wittingly remain in bondage under the yoke of these popish Prelates, which receive this false antichristian ministry, this popish idolatrous worship & ordinances etc. are the true Churches of Christ? As there is no consimilitude (except in this one point of evil, wherein yet these Parishes far exceed) so is there no consequent or comparison betwixt a Church & no Church, a true Church & ministry, and a false Church & ministry. Neither have we a better argument in all Mr. G. his book to approve the ministry & proceedings of the Church of England, them the most odious sins & faults of other Churches; which were not recorded by the holy Ghost for us to imitate or to plead for sin by, so much as left for examples, and as it were land marks, to flee sin by. Again this Church here remained not wilfully under this tyranny of Diotrephes; They never had been reproved and admonished, therefore. Howsoever we justify not or tolerate the least sin that God condemneth in his word, yet we make not any sin, until impenitency and obstinacy be joined thereunto, to disannul and break the Covenant with God. Neither do we make every inordinate and presumptuous part (when the Ministers of the Church extend themselves beyond their line and the limits of their office) strait way an antichristian yoke, if they be not seen or repressed at the first. For as it is said, both the Church and Ministers may sin in such things and transgress the rule of ignorance or of negligence. And so what will this example help their Church, which standeth wilfully and wittingly in seen bondage unto these antichristian Prelates? But Mr. G. saith the Apostle did not will the faithful to separate themselves, or not any longer to obey Diotrephes in any thing▪ well, and even this his own fond collection doth show, that Diotrephes sin was neither so prejudicial, heinous, or publicly known to the Church, as he would make it. For if Diotrephes had either usurped the whole power, or abused the public government of the Church so far, as to cast out of his own sole authority in his own name what brethren he lust, yea those of the most virtuous and charitable, he had not to have been suffered in the Church, much less to have remained a Minister with such public heinous sins upon him. This had been contrary to the laws and rules of Christ's Testament, to the practise and proceedings of the other Apostles, to the safety of the Church. To all which it is not credible or audible, that this Apostle would be so contrary▪ neither may it be inferred from this place without grievous perverting the scriptures, and injury to the holy Ghost. If Diotrephes fault had been in this nature so heinous and public, what needed the Apostle to say: If I come I will declare or bring his works to remembrance, the Greek word is hupomneso. submonebo. I will submonish. Again, the beginning of the. 10. verse, Dia touto. propter hoc for this. showeth an other cause, an other matter, an other fault. Mr. Giffardes other place. john 16. v. 2. serveth his turn as evil. They shall cast you out of their Synagogues, yea the hour cometh that every one that killeth you shall think he doth GOD good service. It is strange that Mr. G. should think and use this as spoken of the true Church, when the very next verse hath these words. And these things they will do unto you, because they have not known the Father nor me. I hope these are no marks of the true Church, not to know God nor Christ, or to use such barbarous hostility towards the disciples and faithful servants of Christ. If then these marks, this tyrannous usage, & the blood of the Saints be found upon the Church of England, they shall by this glass and place descry her to be the malignant persecuting Synagogue, and not that persecuted Church consisting of Christ's true disciples and faithful servants & witnesses. As to his other shoteancker and fundamental usual place at all assays. 2 Thess. 2. v. 4. (from whence he draweth a main argument from the Church of Rome and of England, to prove them both the Churches of God, Because it is there said that Antichrist shall sit in the Temple of God, And Antichrist sitteth in the Church of Rome and England, Therefore the Churches of Rome and of England are the Churches of God) I do refer the reader to the second transgression for answer, which place and argument he shall there find lardglie handled and discussed.  
IN the next point Mr. G. in his bad conscience finding the little consequent from civil to antichristian bondage, quite forgetteth, forsaketh, & turned the question, And would now make us or at least make others believe that we hold that the Church may be in no outward bondage. whereas we hold it may not bear Antichrist's yoke, or be brought into any antichristian bondage. Having fully set down this opinion as ours, he pronounceth us. anabaptists, and wondereth how so proud a spirit could be in rotten flesh, so flatly to contradict the spirit of God in these places Genes. 15. Exod. 20. and all the places of the Prophets, where the Lord threateneth that they should be led into Babylon, & be there in bondage. To take away his wonder though not his folly, We give him again and again to understand, That we never denied but that the Church might be in civil bondage, in bodily oppression, but never might be brought into any antichristian bondage, either large or strait, outward or inward, as he distinguisheth. And therefore willed him to put difference betwixt civil and antichristian bondage, betwixt bodily oppression, persecution etc., and any ecclesiastical antichristian yoke. We acknowledge the Church to have been in civil bondage, in great persecution and bodily oppression in Egypt & Babylon; But that they were there in any ecclesiastical bondage, or received any antichristian yoke, we utterly deny. And demand of Mr. G. where he can show that any of that faithful there bowed down to their idolatries, received any new laws and ordinances at those tyrants for the worship of God, the administration and government of the Church; Or if he can show that any did thus, whether those persons were by the word of God to be esteemed members of the Church? And as to the place by him alleged. 1 Corinth. 7. 21. 22. Art thou called a bond servant care not for it; For the bond Servant calid in the Lord, is the lords freeman, it fully showeth that difference which we are driven so often to inculcate unto him betwixt civil and antichristian bondage, The one here showed to be an holy estate and calling, no preiudize to the kingdom of God, or to the liberty of the Saints, The other in all those places above recited to be contrary to the kingdom of CHRIST, to our christian liberty and faith, to be intolerable, and not to be borne or suffered of the Church, or any member of CHRIST. In as much as Antichrist is an adversary, an opposite and lawless fellow, that lifteth himself up not only against, but above God, showing himself that he is God, 2 Thess. 2. causing all both small and great, rich and poor to receive his mark Revel. 13. which mark we have declared from sondris places to be bondage and subjection to his statutes and decrees, even as christian liberty is the mark of the children of the free woman, of the heavenly jerusalem▪ Which bondage and subjection being the mark of the Beast, all the men that receive the same either upon their forehead or upon their hand, shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, of that pure wine mixed in the cup of his wrath, and shallbe tormented in fire & brimstone before the holy Angels & before the Lamb. and the smoke of their torment shall ascend evermore, and they shall have no rest day nor night, which worship the Beast & his image, and whosoever receiveth the print of his name. Reu. 14. And it followeth immediately. Here is the patience of the Saints, here they that keep the commandments, of GOD and faith of JESUS. Whereupon we may conclude, that no antichristian yoke, not even in the least things is to be borne or suffered in Christ's Church by way of subjection not for the space of one hour, But all things rather to be undergonne, then to stoop down to the Beast to bear his mark, or worship his image.  
BY this time Mr. give. having shot off all his new ordinance to little purpose, retireth himself again to his old sconce, & will by no means be driven from his two places of the Song. Wherbie (when he before so miss to prove the Church in any antichristian bondage) he now letteth that matter fall, and bringeth these places to prove the Church to stand in outward bondage. Which doctrine though it was never by us denied, but that the Church might be in civil & bodily bondage, yet we affirm nothing less to be proved by these places. In the first we hope Mr. G. will not be so gross to take those vineyards for local vineyards, 
Cant. 1.  and that setting or putting to keep them, for civil or bodily bondage. for besides that nothing could be more gross or divers from that heavenly spiritual argument of Solomon in that song, So would CHRIST never will the Church or any member of the Church, to shake off any lawful or civil yoke in that manner, to departed from their earthly Lords & Masters, to refuse such lawful service & honest labour as they should enjoin them. Likewise to the second place There may great difference be put betwixt bondage, 
Cant. 5.  and persecution or oppression. That the Church there was in grievous persecution is evident, but that it was in any bondage we cannot by that text or any circumstance thereof perceive. Thus Mr. G. every way misseth his mark, and as a giddy drunken man he reeleth from one side to the other. Sometimes endeavouring by these places to prove the Church in bondage to some antichristian yoke, yet not daring to affirm those vineyards (which her mother's sons put her to keep) to be Antichrist's vineyards, which if affirm and prove not, there is no antichristian yoke to be dreamt on in that place, all the strength of his reason or rather delusion lijng in these words The Sons of my Mother were incensed against me, they set me the keeper of the vineyards, my vinyeard that to me I kept not. The true interpretation whereof it here booteth not to stand upon, sufficeth that no antichristian yoke or bondage can from this place, or from any one word thereof be drawn and enforced. But yet Mr. G. doth herein press us with these places of the song, in that the faithful did not here separate themselves from under these evil pastors and governors, as herestickes and schismatics do. And this he again proveth by th' example of our Saviour and his Disciples, who did not separate themselves from the high Priests, Scribes, and Pharasies, so long as the vinyeard was not taken from them etc. To which proof he hath in the SECOND TRANSGRESSION his full answer. To these places: In the first the Church hath an absolute and direct commandment from God himself, To go forth, not to stay in the steps of that flock, to feed her kids above the tabernacles of those shepherds. In the second we can but wonder to see Mr. G. so insensate & gross to imagine, that these persecuting watchmen were Ministers or members of the true Church. Especially seeing the two Churches so lively in that place described, The one malignant & persecuting, the other the true Church and persecuted. Between which I ween there is as great a separation as betwixt light and darkness, betwixt hell and heaven. Neither did the Church there stay with, or was stayed by those watchmen, but went to the Daughters of jerusalem to seek and inquire for Christ; much less (as this man doteth) stayed in their fold in their tents, Or remained under the government and bondage of those persecuting watchmen that openly opposed against Christ, and could not endure that the Church should seek him. Neither can any thing be imagined more false or contrary to the argument of that heavenly song, then that the Church of Christ; may at any hand bear or stand in any bondage to the yoke of Antichrist. Whose neck Christ adorns with chains, and she again her door posts with garlands for him. Song. 1. 9 & 6. 13. Under whose head CHRITES left hand always is, and his right hand embraceth her. Song. 2. 6. Song. 3. She layeth hold of CHRIST, and bringeth him into her Mother's house, into the chamber of her that conceived her. There also is his bed set up much more glorious than the marriage bed of Solomon, about which bed sixty, valiant men of the mighty men of Israel are said to stand and guard, all of them handling the sword, expert in war, with his sword upon his thing from the fear by might. Song. 4. The neck of the Church is likened to the tower of Daniel built for the armory, where a thousand shields do hang, all the targetts of the strong men. And Song. 8. Christ, saith his vineyard is always & wholly before him, he chalendgeth and gathereth all the revenues thereof himself, he divideth them not nor imparteth th●m to any other as Solomon or other earthly Princes are constrained to do. What part or right then, what honour or homage, especially what bondage is left here to Antichrist? But thus they are broken that thus wilfully & of set purpose stumble at the word, as this man doth.  
YEt proceedeth this graceless man further, And is not afraid to affirm, That the Church & every member thereof is in some spiritual bondage to sin, and draweth an argument from this position. That therefore much more may it be in some outward bondage to Antichrist. This execrable position and argument, the holy Bishops and learned Priests of England are content to let publicly pass from their view and correction, because it pleadeth for the antichristian usurpation of the one, and the servile bondage of the other. But when this argument shall never so little by the word of God be scanned, it shallbe found most heretical and blasphemous. For verily if after our faith in Christ, we be now left in any bondage to sin, then doth sin still live and reign in us, and we still bound unto and with it, then hath not Christ fully freed us from the curse of the law, Death, and Hel. Then was not Christ's death a sufficient ransom for, neither extended to all our sins, neither hath he subdued or set us free from all our enemies, neither have we as yet any perfect peace or reconciliation with God, And then was his coming vain, then can no flesh be saved thereby, then must we look for an other redeemer, or else look for him to come again to die for our sins that remain and reign in us. For the reward of the least sin is death, being a transgression of God's law; And if we be in bondage to sin, then are we not Kings and Priests unto God. Is not this a meet Minister of the Gospel, that knoweth not yet the work of our redemption, the benefit of Christ's death, the privilege of the Saints, that cannot and will not learn to put difference betwixt the frailty or proneness to commit sin which is in this mortal flesh of all the faithful, and that bondage and subjection to sin which is never found in any of the faithful, after they have once truly acknowledged and embraced Christ? Howsoever the ministry of the Church of England may allow & publish these doctrines, yet are they most odious & execrable to the soul and conscience of all that know, fear, or love the Lord JESUS CHRIST.  
Now at length we are come to the second proposition of our argument, or rather to the fourth TRANSGRESSION wherewith their Church of England is charged, uzt. That their Churches are ruled by and wilfully remain in subjection unto an antichristian and ungodly government contrary to the institution of our Saviour CHRIST. This we showed in our first writing by the public and present estate of the Church of England, in their whole ministry, worship, administration, ordinances, ceremonies, censures, cannons, customs, Courts, to be antichristian, even the same yoke and government that the Pope sometimes exercised by those his natural children and unfaithful servants the bishops, who now have gotten this power into their own hands. Most of these (if not all) have been already in this present treatise declared and proved to be idolatrous, popish, blasphemous, false, and antichristian, wholly swerved from the rules of Christ's Testament. Any of these how Mr. G. hath by the word of God approved, let the unpartial reader judge; This their ecclesiastical government which now is in question, he faith is the same in matter though it vary in form f●om CHRIST'S government. Whereof now is arisen a great question in their Church, Whether that Apostolic form of discipline which they prescribed to the Churches, should be perpetual, or variable. The Reformistes that hold it perpetual sue and complain to the Parliaments for the same Apostolic form to be established, and to have this present government of these bishops and their false hierarchy with their Courts and offices quite removed out of the Church and abolished. The Prelates that hold it arbitrable at Prince's pleasures according to the variable estate of times and Countries, hold fast that popish inordinate usurped power which they have gotten into their hands, and thereby incarcerate, silence, sequester, depose all such of the contrary faction as speak against their power, and present government, with all possible hostility. yet all this deadly debate Mr. G. covereth in a word, calling it but a question about the outward form of discipline: As also hideth all the other most heinous and detestable enormities that arise and flow from their monstrous antichristian government, under the same title of outward form of discipline. For both sides he saith do agree in the matter That CHRIST hath left a power to his Church to choose, to try, and to ordain Pastors and Teachers, And likewise that he hath given the power of admonition, suspension, excommunication. Only here is the difference, that th'one side would have this power exercised by presbyteries of Pastors, Teachers, Elders, as in the Apostles time; The other hold it the more self and quiet way to commit this power to the hands of the Bishop. Which side holdeth the truth you shall hereafter know Mr. Giffard● mind; when the battle is fought he will then tell you of which side he willbe. Till than he will take the bishops side against the Brownists tooth & nail, and affirm their government to be the holy government of Christ, and the defaults thereof not such as make it to become antichristian, or a yoke of bondage, as the Brownist with open throat exclaimeth. And for the other side (whereof he sometime was) they, howsoever they would have it removed, yet are far from the Brownistes opinion; for they for the peace of the Church had rather stand under it, then under Christ's cross by witnessing against it. Concerning the opinions of both these sides for the execution of this discipline they speak of, we have already showed both sides to err, and fully refuted their several opinions by the way in the SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION, where we have declared that th'execution of the censures & power of the Church belongeth neither to such a sequestered withdrawn presbytery, Nor yet to any one man, but unto the whole Churchjointlie etc. We have also in that Second Transgression showed the forgery of their idol Suspension, and of the popish Excommunication of these Bishops. And how the Church of England hath no power to excommunicate any person for any sin or heresy whatsoever: but only abuse this most high judgement of God upon earth, to their filthy lucre and pomp, excommunicating for nothing but for contempt of their antichristian Courts, Or for not paying their ravenous fees and extortions, as also absolving them for money when they please. Whereupon whilst they want this power of excommunication, it followeth▪ that admonitions were vain & fruitless amongst them, when they cannot have their due power, process, and effect. sundry of them also as these Bishops, the whole rabble of their false hierarchic and Priests being incorrigible, such as willbe subject to no censure, neither receive admonition; but be more ready to smite & blaspheme such as reprove them. Moreover in the THIRD PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION we have showed, how their Churches have no power in themselves to elect or ordain them any Ministers, but are enforced to receive them from the Patron & the Bishop, whether they will or no. Where we have also set down the counterfeight and false manner of the ordination and institution of their Ministers or Priests. Whereby evidently appeareth what kind of government this their discipline of the Church of England is. So that here remaineth the less to be spoken of this point, the chief matters being already handled. Only here we will a little entreat of this controversy betwixt these Bishops and Priests about their form of Discipline, and somewhat generally of their Courts in few words, and so put an end to this point.  
THis controversy Mr. G. affirmeth to be about the form & not about the matter of discipline, wherein both sides agree That Christ hath left a power to his Church etc. Doth not Mr. G. deserve high commendations, that with one logical distinction can both defend all the Pope's hierarchy, Courts, Cannons etc. and make also these two opposite factions the Bishops & Priests to agree in matter? So that now belike all this long bitter hostility, contention, and controversy amongst them hath been about no matter. And then will not this rare distinction hide or excuse the blame of either party. Again (save that we will have no strife about inanity of words) we alwaise took the form to have given the being to the thing, and to have been so principal a part thereof, as it might never be severed from the same, howsoever in way of discourse the form and the matter may for argument sake be distinguished. For even common sense teacheth, that no man or creature may be separate from their peculiar and natural, form or shape. Neither any member of them from that form, place, and office, which God hath given & appointed to that member. But all men hold it monstrous to have a mixed or false shape. How much more impossible & intolerable were it, but to admit any other form, or to change that form which God hath given & appointed to any action of the Church? Either that form which God hath given & prescribed is no true and right form, Or else those actions without that true and right form, cannot be said those true actions of the Church. How monstrous then is their presumption that dare undertake to change, yea to abrogate those forms, rules, ordinances that Christ hath prescribed to his Church in his Testament? How shameless and blasphemous their impudency, that dare pronounce this adulterate monstrous discipline of their Church, the same in matter and effect with that government Christ hath prescribed? Is not this of the one sort to sit in the Temple of God as God, to change the ordinances & c? Is it not in the other with the false Prophet to daub and uphold the throne of the Beast? If God unto MOSES prescribed an exact pattern in all things that belonged 
Exo. 25. 4●  to that Tabernacle, 
Hebr. 8. 5.  even to the least pin, tape, hook, utilence, with the due form, 
Hebr. 3. 5.  shape, measure, weight, place, time, v●e etc., and left nothing to his will or discretion (but his praise was that he was found faithful in all the lords house, 
Hebr. 2. and 12. 25. etc.  and had made and done all things according to the pattern showed him in the mounetaine). If that word spoken by Angels was made firm, and every transgression and disobedience received just retribution of reward; How shall they escape, and where shall they stand, that neglect, yea reject, that heavenly arch-type, and only perfect pattern of CHRIST'S Testament, delivered by the holy Ghost to the Apostles, by the Apostles to the Churches, confirmed by the death of CHRIST, and by divers signs & wonders from heaven: that take boldness to innovate, change & alter the inviolable perpetual ordinances of CHRIST'S Testament, and to set up a n●we liturgy, and to bring in a new ministry and government according to the same. 
1 Chron 28 ●1 etc.  If God were so jealous over the ordinances and utilences of that material Temple, which cosisted but of wood and stone, that he permitted not any thing to those excellent servants Moses, David, Solomon 
1 Kings 6. and 7. chap.  in all that business, which they received not by divine oracle from his own mouth, 
Leu. 10.  Neither suffered wilful transgression in any that drew near to administer before him, 
Nomb. 16.  but executed most fearful examples upon sundry, 
2 Samu. 6.  as Nadab, Abihu, Corath, uzzah uzziah etc. How much more jealous and severe shall he be over the ordinances and administration 
2 Chron. 26  of this spiritual house, which consisteth of the souls and bodies of men, 
Heb. 12. 28.  over that kingdom of his Son which cannot be shaken, over that Tabernacle which cannot be removed, 
Esa. 33. 20.  the stakes whereof can never be taken away, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken for ever? 
1 Cor. 3. 17.  Shall not the Lord destroy them which thus misbuilde and destroy his Temple? Can they think themselves wiser, or more in favour with God their Moses, David, Solomon? 
1 Cor. 11.  To have greater privilege than the Apostles? 
1 Cor. 4. 17.  who delivered not any thing which they had not received, 
Mat. 28. ●0.  And bound all builders and Churches to that which they delivered, unto the worlds end, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever Christ had commanded them, 
2 Tim. 1. 1●.  to keep the true pattern and that holy commandment undefiled and without blame, 
1 Tim. 6. 13. 14.  until that appearing of our Lord JESUS CHRIST. yea can they think themselves wiser and fuller of eyes within and without, 
Zech. 3. 9  to have greater sight and providence of things present and to come, things inward and outward than the Lord and builder of the house himself, 
Hebr. 3. 6.  That they dare thus presumptuously violate and innovate the ordinances, the outward form of government & administration (to use their own words) which he hath instituted for his Church & kingdom? Think they these of less moment & value, than those ordinances & outward forms belonging to the Tabernacle & Temple under the law▪ Or is not this to perfer that material Temple & the ordinances thereof to the spiritual Temple & the Testament of Christ? The person & ministry of Moses, to the person & ministry of Christ? To make Moses more faithful & absolute in his house then Christ? In as much as the ordinances of the Temple were perfect and inviolable, such as no Prince or Priest might add to, alter, innovate, or break the least of them. But the ordinances & forms of Christ in his Church so imperfect, weak, insufficient, yea so incongruent & unmeet, as they are left arbitrable at the discretion of men, conformed to the will of Princes, to polecies, times, and states? yea do not these men that hold the form or manner of the administration of Christ's discipline (as they term it) variable and arbitrable, and that presume to prescribe an other manner of executing the same, hold their own ways & devices more wise, equal, and convenient than the Lords ways, and thrust their own into the place of the Lords? which forms & devices of theirs can no more agree or be joined to the lords ordinances in his government, order, administration, than heaven & earth can be mingled. Neither may they without sin be compared together. The Lord's form that he hath given & disposed to every part, action, and exercise of his Church only & best fitting & agreeing to the same, neither suffering or receiving avy other. 
Revel. 21. 16  For as it is written, the form of this City is four square, most firm, immovable, and proportionable the height, length, and breath thereof being equal. Yea as our Saviour pronounceth with his own mouth most graciously & often in the Song, All the members, 
●ant. 4. 6.  features, and proportions of his Church, are most beautiful, amiable, 
1. Chap.  and even ravishing the senses to behold, as we see there from top to toe described; not only in the several parts, members, and joints, but even in the proper peculiar forms, proportions, features of each. How wicked then & devilish is the opinion of these Bishops & their side, that hold the forms, order, and manner of the actions, administration & government of the Church prescribed in Christ's Testament, and together joined & commanded with the actions etc., not to be perpetual, always meet or convenient, but to be variable at the disposition & will of men? But how monstrous is their presumption, and barbarous their havoc, that dare not only to bereave the Church of that heavenly form which Christ hath prescribed in his Testament, but in stead thereof set up & impose their own L●ito●rgie, their own ugly, deformed, and monstrous shapes, 
Revel. 13.  which can no more agree to the offices & actions of Christ's Church, than the paws of a Bear, the mouth of a Lion etc., can agree & be joined to an human body. which strange shapes & ●alse members agree & belong rather to the monstrous body of that Beast, then unto the heavenly body of CHRIST. For if the great Creator have not permitted or given power to any mortal man to make 
Esay. 14. 13. 14. 15.  or give shape to the least member or part of an human natural body, not to make one hair, or being made to give it colour or sharp, white or black, short or long; much less than hath the Lord & great Architect of the church his spiritual body, given power to any Angel or mortal creature to make or change the least part or action thereof in matter or form. 
Rom. 11. 34.  But as he hath not called any man to council concerning these things, 
1 Cor. 2. 16.  but hath delivered unto all men a perfect pattern in his word, 
2 Tim. 3. 16. 17.  where we have his whole mind, how he will have all things done in his Church, so it behoveth all men soberly to rest in, and carefully to beware not to change, 
Act. 20. 32  transgress, or serve from the same at any hand willingly: 
Heb. 12. 28. 29.  knowing that even the Lord our God is a consuming fire, and willbe served also of us in this his kingdom to his own good liking with reverence & fear.  
Now seeing we find the form & pattern which Christ hath instituted & given most perfect & absolute, such as cannot be corrected or amended by any human devise or ingeny, such as cannot be separate from the parts & actions unto which Christ hath joined them, neither may those places or actions receive any other form, but that thereby they become adulterate, displeasing to God, pernicious to men. It is evident that this government which the Bishop's exercise over the Church, cannot be the true government or discipline of Christ, because by their own confessions it is executed after an other form & manner than Christ hath instituted, Seing (as we have by many reasons & express Scriptures proved) the form is enjoined & joined together with the action by the same authority, neither may by any mortal man be changed or separate from the same. So y● Mr. G. his own confession in that their government wanteth the true form (for here we reason not of faults in a true form, but of a divers & false form) is reason enough to show, that it is not that true government which Christ hath instituted, And then must it needs follow to be a false and antichristian government: And consequently all that stand under it to stand under the yoke of Antichrist, and not to have Christ their king & governor. Moreover the Brownist with whom he hath to do, hath learned & doth fully believe, That CHRIST ruleth in his Church by his own officers and laws, and not by any such popish Officers, Courts, and Camnons', as these BBs. do in the Church of England. All which he hopeth Mr. G. will not say to be of the form of discipline. For sure he holdeth a true ministry and the rules of the Bible to be of such necessity, as the true Church may never receive any other Ministers or laws for their administration and government. We have likewise lardglie already proved this whole ministry, administration, ordinance, and manner of government, not to be according to the rules of God's word, but forged, popish, and false. Only in this place we would know of Mr. G. if the bishops and their false Hierarchy, Courts, jurisdiction, government were of God, how then these learned Reformist Preachers may sue & seek to have them utterly removed out of the church. I would not here be understood of their persons (whereof might be some colour & reason enough) but of their offices, Courts, jurisdiction, government: All which they would have utterly abolished & taken away; which if they were of Christ could not be done without most heinous impiety & sacrilege, without a most grievous wound & maim in the body of Christ, by cutting off such precious and principal members and officers of Christ, and that for ever. If those BBs, their complices, Courts, and government were of Christ, then are these Reformistes which sue and labour to have them removed and abolished, most dangerous and pestilent seducers, that persuade the Prince and realm to do this violence to the body of Christ his Church, to reject the holy government and ministry of Christ, which who so despiseth or putteth away, despiseth & putteth away Christ himself; and so persuade and draw they their Prince and the whole land into the assuted wrath and vengeance of God. ●ut now on the contrary, if these Bishops, officers, courts, government be not of Christ, then belong they not unto, neither have any thing to do or to intermeddle with the ministry or government, or any action of the Church of Christ. How great then on the other side is the perfidy & apostasy of these Reformistes, that knew and pronounced in open Parliament that they were not of God, and sought to have them utterly removed; Yet now for filthy lucre, & for fear of persecution subscribe, swear, and submit to their antichristian Hierarchy, power, courts, jurisdiction, & to all the detestable enormities that flow from their throne? That dirive their ministry from, & exercise it under them? yea that exercise their ministry & keep the whole land under their yoke, and so in the known wrath of God? How odious is the hypocrisy & apostasy of this graceless ma●, that sometimes knew & stood against these enormities, yet now as a withered fruitless tree twice dead, plucked up by the roots, is fallen & apostatat from all faith, light, savour, conscience, & feeling, as that star wormwood that poisoneth & maketh bitter & deadly all the waters he fale into: now pleading & fight for that apostatical throne of iniquity, terming that now the government & power of Christ in matter and effect, which he himself Page 56. & 58. of his book confesseth not to bind in heaven, not to be just as in respect of them that do excommunicate etc., colouring all the abominations that flow from this throne, and all the controversies about their government with a divers outward form. I hope he will admit the Testament & ministry of Christ to be of the matter & substance. And then shall his halting on both sides, & double dissimulation appear to all men, that durst not set down so much as the controversy amongst themselves truly. which yet T. C. his Lord of Winchester dealt more rowndly in, flatly denijng the Apostolic discipline to be either perpetual or necessary: but especially elections, excommunication etc., by the people to be either expedient or tolerable, bringing sundry fleshly reasons & politic inconveniences & impediments to the contrary, the refutation of whose blasphemies belongeth to an other place. But this man thinking to keep in with both sides, setteth down the controversy to be only about the form & not about the matter of discipline, although the Bishops abash not in plain words to the view of the world, & to the face of Christ, to deny the very matter yt self. As both sides also do in deeds & effect; whilst they acknowledge that Christ hath given unto his Church the power of elections & censures, 
Tit. 1. 16.  yet both of them withdraw this whole power from the Church. The one into their sequestered Synods, the other into their popish Courts; 
1 Cor. 4. 20  If so be this power willbe granted to be of the matter of discipline. But this question is soon put to an end, whilst the Bishops deny the Apostolic discipline yt self as tolerable in the common wealth, 
Luk. 19 14 etc.  and flatly deny Christ to reign over them or over this Church by his own officers & laws. And therefore except he will give their persons, 
Math. 21. 33  accomplices, and train, an immunity from all ecclesiastical censures, not to be subject for any transgression or error to the reproof or power of the Church: yea except he will resign his right into their hands, and give them leave to reign & rule over all the Churches in this land, and that by their own officers, courts, camnons, constitutions, injunctions etc., he is no King or Christ for them: Nay if he will not bow down to all these and take their yoke upon him. he is no subject for them, 
Reu. 13. 17  he may not buy and sell, nor live in this market, in this Church. Which Officers, Courts, Cannons etc., if Mr. G. had proved to have been of the matter of Christ's discipline (for of the form we will all grant him they are not) and had approved & justified them by the word of God, then had he some colour to ask this question, whether some faults in their discipline should make it antichristian. But seeing these bishops & their Courts, Officers, Cannons etc.: were by us affirmed unto him to have no foundation or mention in God's word, no place nor use in Christ's Church, but to be contrary to the one, most prejudicial & dangerous to the other, And he in all this space could bring us no defence for them, We cannot see by his own reason (seeing they have neither the true matter nor the form of CHRIST'S government) how their government should be held and esteemed the true and holy government of Christ; And then must that sequel (which he so feareth) needs follow, that it is an antichristian government & yoke, such as the true Church & servants of Christ may not bear and wittingly stand under.  
To perticulate all the several corruptions, abuses, enormities of the government of these antichristian Bishops, is not in my skill or power, not knowing in any measure their Cannons, customs, orders, privileges, proceed. Only this in general I may affirm, that of such pompous stagelike popish mixed Courts, handling both civil & ecclesiastical causes judicially, I never read through all the book of God, or to belong to Christ's Church; Especially exercising such absolute power & jurisdiction over all Churches, causes, and persons ecclesiastical: yea usurping, assuming, and executing the whole power, offices, and duties of all Churches, yea even the proper prerogatives & privileges only belonging to Christ himself. To make, impose, or abrogate laws, To give or rather sell licences & dispensations, to have more benefices than one, to marry, to eat flesh at times of restraint etc., To call, summon, and fetch by constraint all causes & persons of the Church before them, There to determine & decree, to censure, silence, suspend, sequester, depose, incarcerate, punish by mulct what Minister or member of the Church they lust of their own absolute authority without any controlment repose or redress. The Church having no power or liberty to reprove or refuse, no not so much as call into question any thing they do or decree, to rebuke or censure these inordinate lawless fellows for any thing they do either publicly or privately. The Church must receive & obey as most holy, whatsoever they decree or impose with all reverence as the oracles of God, though they be never so contrary to the word of God. The Church or any other member of the Church in these Courts be not permitted so much as to propound or plead their own cause; But are by them compelled to their romish litigious course & procedings, To speak & plead by a feed Advocate or Proctor, after their popish order and custom. Where for bribes & fees, all causes (be they never so fowl & corrupt) are handled, pleaded, and proceed, that I say not succeed. And without such bribes & fees, no cause (be it never so just, and the party never so poor or innocent) hath audience or help. Here being so many officers, catchpoles, attendants to be feed & pleased. To all these ravenous Birds with fingers the suetors & summoned become a prey. But especially the faithful, such as speak against, and will not of conscience and faith unto God stoop down unto their antichristian power, or obey their ungodly decrees; These shallbe worse used than any traitorous Papists or facinorous persons whatsoever; who shall all of them by their purse or friends escape well enough & find favour, when these poor souls shall never geat out of their hands without wrack either of body or soul, either death or denying the faith. These though there be no direct matter, evidence, witnesses, or accusers against them, yet shall themselves be enforced to a corporal oath (as they call it) upon and by a book, to answer directly and truly to such articles and poyncts as shallbe propounded unto them. If they deny or make conscience either of the manner or matter of this oath, than instead of godly instruction or christian persuasion, they are forthwith committed to prison, yea for the most part to close prison, there to remain shut up from all air, exercise, friends, duties, callings etc., until they either yield to take this idolatrous, blasphemous, and impious oath, or die under their hands. No bail, mainprize, help, benefit, or redress by law, by the Queen's Royal writs or Courts allowed to any, that are committed by the least of this hellish Anarchy. Whose lawless and insolent dealings, oppressions, injuries, violence, may not be called in question or examined by any civil Magistrates or Courts. All which they patronize by her Majesty's high or especial Commission unto them, Although her Majesty's suffereth her Royal Prerogative to be handled & considered of in some of these civil Courts: yea & granteth to all her free borne subjects the benefit & free use of her highness laws even in any cases or causes betwixt her Highness and them according to the great Charter in the Magna Charta, whereunto her Majesty's is sworn. which Charter also these lawless Prelates most presumptuously and tyrannously violate & break under colour of her Majesty's Commission: thus setting her Maties Commission against her Majesty's Prerogative & Courts Royal, against that great Charter of the land, against all her highness laws, yea & against all the laws of God & the Testament & Kingdom of Christ. But to say as it is, their procedings are both against their commission, (if they might be duly examined & conferred thereunto,) and against her Majesty's meaning. Whose mild, preceable, & just government in all causes that proceed from herself, assure us, that She would never wittingly grant such a commission as should be so prejudicial to her own Crown & Royal dignity, to the estate, of the Church and of the whole common wealth, as this whereby these Prelates bear themselves & their ungodly proceedings, is. That power granted unto her Majesty's by Parliament, to appoint & authorize whom she shall think meet to execute under her all manner jurisdictions, privileges, and pre-eminences concerning ecclesiastical causes to her belonging, is, as also all other her Princely power & authority always to be understood in the Lord, so far as shallbe found consonant to his word. For neither is there given neither may or will her Majesty's take or exercise any further or other power then the Lord her God giveth her. In whom kings reign, of whom their power is dirived and holden, by whom it is circumscribed and limited, to whom they shall as any other persons, account.  
If then these Prelates and their antichristian Hierarchy, these romish Courts and their popish procedings in the same, be not found to be of God, to have any warrant in his word, or to belong to the ministry & government of Christ's Church, then can no commission or human authority whatsoever make them lawful, impose, or enjoin them upon the Church. Neither ought any Christian to obey them at the Commandment of any mortal man. Men must always be obeyed in the Lord. 
Act. 4. 19  Unto whom when or wherein they be found contrary or opposite, there must God rather than men, be obeyed. His indignation that can cast both body & soul into hell fire, 
Mat. 10. 28  is more to be feared than theirs, that can but touch the body only. To obey God's commandments, and to refrain from all things that are found contrary to the same, is no disobedience to Princes, neither to withdraw or derogate from their sacred power, as this malignant Clergy would persuade. But they rather, that encroach upon & openly impugn the Prince's royal prerogative; that so highly abuse their Prince, and that trust she committeth unto them; that break & violate all the public laws & charters of the land; that usurp the civil sword, authority, and jurisdiction, which are utterly prohibited them by God; that usurp place above all in authority under her Majesty's whoesoever, to whom by the law of God they ought to be subject; that will not submit their laws, doings, & persons to any civil trial at the Prince's royal judgement seats, but rather seek to withdraw some of the most high and chief causes from her royal Courts and judgement Seats into their own Courts; that usurp the proper peculiar place, titles, previleges, power of Christ himself, exercising absolute authority over all Churches, doctrines, causes, persons, to bring in or cast out, erect or abrogate, what laws, ordinances, ministry, ministration, government they lust without controlment; that will not submit their public ecclesiastical decrees & proceedings, nor yet their private lives and conversation to the trial and censure of Christ in his Church by the word of God; that make such barbarous havoc, misrule, and confusion both in Church and common wealth; that seduce and deceive their Sovereign Prince, their Nobles, Magistrates, and the whole land, leading them in the ways of death & destruction, turning them out of the strait ways of life & peace; that with their utmost endeavour and skill oppose against the Testament & kingdom of Christ; that molest, spoil, and persecute in all hostile manner the Lords most faithful servants her Matis. most loyal & true hearted Subjects, for refraining from their idolatries and enormities so contrary to the gospel of Christ, which flow from their antichristian government and ministry; that nourish, favour, and support the Lords & her Matis. pernicious known enemies the Papists, those idolaters, those conspirators and traitors, who they say are not such enemies to their pontifical estate and regiment as these faithful christians are; that are of nothing so jealous, vigilant, and careful, not even of their Sovereign Prince's life, or of the peace & prosperity of the whole land, as of their own usurped ruinous kingdom, lest the light of the Gospel should break forth, and discover their apostatical throne, and antichristian proceedings; And therefore with all their might and may ne they strive to suppress this light, and to oppress all such as in any sincerity and good conscience profess and practise the Gospel, tolerating & chearishing rather any mischief, any vile flagitious and dissolute persons, as by daily experience is seen. So that by these marks and fruits let the Christian or but indifferent reader judge, Whether these Prelates and their antichristian Hierarchy be to be held troublers of the Church and state, abridgers of the Prince's power, usurpers of public authority without lawful caling like Corath, Dathan, & Abyram, Or we, as this accuser, this trump of Satan, (to bleamish our holy profession & glorious sufferings) shameth not to give out of us. Although they all hitherto have not, neither shall ever be able (in the confidence of God's grace, and of a clear conscience we affirm it) justly to detect, or so much as to suspect us of any such crime, 
● Pet. 2.  endeavour, or intent. We reverence and are subject to every human creature for the Lord, whether unto the King as having authority over all, or unto rulers as sent by him, for the revenge of evil doers, or for the praise of them that do well, That according to the will of God, by doing well, we might put to silence the ignorance of unwise men. Yet hold we not the offices, Courts, and jurisdiction of these Prelates and their Hierarchy within the compass of this Commandment, or to be the ordinance of God; But find them that very throne of Satan, that Anarchy of Antichrist opposite to the kingdom and Testament of CHRIST, most pestilent & pernicious both to the Church and common Wealth. And therefore may not by Princes be suffered in Churches or common Wealth, much less by them be established over the Church and common Wealth, 
Revel. 17.  without giving their sacred power to the Beast. Neither may any faithful Christian be brought in subjection to this their antichristian power & yoke, 
Revel. 13. 15  without bowing down and worshipping the Beast.  
To discuss or perticulate the several & innumerable errors, faults, abuses, corruptions, enormities, in the camnons, constitutions, customs, proceedings of the several Courts that belong to these Prelates antichristian regiment, I am not (as I have said) able, neither were it in this place expedient. By this which hath been here generally said of them, their Courts, and proceedings, appeareth, how contrary they are to that government, and to those ordinances which CHRIST hath established and set over his Church for ever. CHRIST'S Sceptre is an everlasting Sceptre, a Sceptre of righteousness. He hath set down a most perfect & absolute government to his Church. He hath particularly and exactly prescribed what officers, laws & ordinances he requireth in his Church. He cannot be separate from his own government. He ruleth not his Church by any other officers or laws, then by his own which he hath instituted. These godless Prelates then, that appoint other officers and laws unto him & over his Church, wrist not only the Sceptre, but the Kingdom out of Christ's hands. And all such as stand under the antichristia government of these presumptuous idol shepherds, 
Zech. 11.  stand not under Christ's staff, amenity, under his Sceptre of grace, as the sheep of his fold within his covenant & protection; but as the sheep of destruction under his iron rod, 
Psal. 2.  wherewith they shallbe broken as a Potter's vessel. Here is our controversy touching this fourth principal transgression, fully decided & determined by Gods own mouth; That all which stand under any false ecclesiastical government, stand not within the Covenant, but under the wrath of God. All the mitigations then, reasons, and delusions of the false Prophets, shall never be able to make void, turn away, or diminish these judgements, otherwise then by their unfeigned repentance & speedy conversion from their evil ways.  
HITHER TO hath Mr. give. brought us not one reason or place of scripture to prove the present government of these Prelates and their hierarchy, to be that heavenly government which CHRIST hath instituted in his Church, but hath grievously perverted many scriptures to prove that the Church might stand under some antichristian yoke, although we in our first writing in this 4 PRINRIPAL transgression blamed it, as false and antichristian, In our second showed it to be such in the Officers, Courts, Cannons, proceedings. Now at length for a clusive reason to prove and determine all the poyncts at once; and to shut up his book, he hath hatched & brought us forth this worthy reason to rest upon. If the execution of discipline by Bishops be the yoke of Antichrist, and if all the Churches which do stand under the same do worship the Beast and be not christians, it must needs follow that such as did ever execute this power, were Antichrist's, and no children of GOD at that time or before they repent. But by your own confession many of them died blessed Martyrs. I conclude therefore, That the Brownistes cannot but with heresies and most heinous injury & inordinate dealing condemn a Church as quite divourced & separate from CHRIST, for such corruptions & imperfections in God's worship as be not fundamental, nor destroy the substance: for that wicked men come with the godly to the public exercises of religion: for some wants in calling & ordaining Ministers, and in ecclesiastical discipline.  
BElike Mr. give. is hard driven when this old popish reason already by us answered, and now by him not over well repaired, is fain to become his chief corner stone to approve this Church in all these charges, and the only reason he can bring for the Hierarchy & regiment of the Church of England. By this reason his holy Father the POPE was wont to defend his triple Crown & apostatical Chair. Because in the same have sit many godly Bishops & blessed-Martyres etc.: so that if the office, power, and dignity of his Popedom be antichristian, then must all these godly learned men that have executed the same needs be Antichrists, and not true members of CHRIST, until they repent: But they never were found to have repent these things, yet are confessed by all that knew them in that age to be learned & godly: Therefore Mr. G. and all this horned Clergy and Lordly hierarchy of England, cannot without schism reuoult from, without heresy pronounce, this holy Sea & office antichristian etc. Let Mr. G. now he seethe the forge & issue, bind or lose, follow or leave this argument, at his own pleasure & peril. If he suppose to escape by showing discrepance betwixt these godly predecessors & ungodly successors in many circumstances and virtues: And so think this reason will not press him half so sore as it doth us: yet let him consider (though I will not be the POPE'S advocate) that they here reason of the same office, and not of the same circumstances, and that these godly predecessors executed the self same office with these their bad successors. Yea so might th'example be put, as it should be without any great difference in circumstance also. And as to the difference betwixt the persons of the one and of the other, (if that may be a solution to this argument) we shall not greatly need to fear, finding this viperous generation, these idle, proud, wordly, fleshly, persecuting, blasphemous Prelates, nothing so like these their godly predecessors these Martyrs, in labours, humility, bounty, spiritual & holy conversation, faith, patience, love of the truth, of the Saints of CHRIST etc., as they are in that which is evil in these antichristian titles, offices, Courts, jurisdiction, revenues, pomp etc. Which, (as we before said unto you) so say we again, that no men or Angels can justify where God's word condemneth, though all the Martyrs in the world should die in and for them. We may not be leed or drawn by the examples & persons of men (how good soever) from one jot of Gods revealed truth. The best men we see do err and sin, there never was or shallbe any man, that erreth and sinneth not in many things. But should we because good men have done evil and erred, therefore justify sin and error? That were high presumption greivouslie to tempt God, and to abuse the holy Scriptures, which record not men's faults to that end. What sin or error might not so by th'example of some good man or Church be justified? yet these are Mr. GIFF. his best reasons for his Church, ministry etc. and here his only reason, to approve the government of these Bishops and hierarchy.  
But now as we here justify & allow not any sin by the examples & persons of the godly; so condemn we not these godly men's persons for sin & error, until obstinacy be joined thereunto, which Mr. GIFF. cannot show in these holy Martyrs. And therefore we deny the consequent of his Mayor or first Proposition; That because the office & jurisdiction they executed were Antichristian, therefore the men that exercised them were Antichrist's, and not children of God. We may utterly condemn the sin, and yet not so peremptorily condemn the sinner. It is a sure position that every sin is of the Devil, yet is there no consequence thereof, that every one that sinneth is of the Devil. we see no such necessity as Mr. G. would persuade of that matter. The godly may sin of ignorance, of negligence, of frailty, yet not thereupon until obstinacy be added unto sin, cease to be christians. These godly Martyrs so lately escaped out of that smoky furnace of the popish Church, could not so clearly discern, and suddenly enter into the heavenly & beautiful order of a true established Church. It is more than one days work, to gather, to plant and establish a Church aright, much more so many thousand several Churches as are supposed in this land. It can be no wonder that those godly men being so unexpert and unexercised in his heavenly work, never having lived in, seen, or heard of any orderly communion of Sainnctes, any true established Church upon earth of so many hundredth years, ever since the general defection under Antichrist so much foretold of in the Scriptures, no marvel I say, if they erred in setting up the frame. But what then? should we therefore justify or persist in their errors? especially should we reject the true pattern of CHRIST'S Testament which reproveth our works, and showeth us a better course? should we not suffer our works to burn, after the manner of these deceitful workmen of these times? God forbidden. For then should we receive their reward & perish with our works.  
Now to the second proposition of this argument we have already expressed our mind concerning the sufferings, faith, and death of these Martyrs. We find them obstinately to have resisted no part of God's word or truth he gave them sight of at any time, but to have been very faithful & constant even unto bands & death in that truth they were come unto. Further we doubt not but they truly repent them of all their sins known, and faithfully laid hold of God's mercy in Christ jesus for all their secret & unknown sins. God's grace we are assured is so much greater than all our sins, as the sea is greater than one drop of water. Therefore we doubt not of their happy and blessed estate; all their sins & these false offices & ministry, which they executed in their ignorance amongst the rest, being forgive them. Th'example than & errors of these Martyrs will not approve the antichristian offices & government of these Prelates, nor yet justify the public worship, ministry, confusion, sacrilege of the Church of England.  
Muchlesse will these two lame propositions of Mr. G. his final argument, bear up his forged conclusion. where he concludeth the Brownistes heretics etc., Because they condemn a Church as quite divorced & separate from Christ, For such imperfections & corruptions in God's worship, as are not fundamental, nor destroy the substance; For that wicked men come with the godly to the public exercises of religion; For some wants in calling & ordaining Ministers; And for some wants in ecclesiastical discipline. If Mr. give. had taken the wise man's council, he should not have answered a matter before he understood it, much less would he (if he had been led by the spirit of God) have blasphemed the truth or condemned the innocent without cause. But as he began his book without council, continued it without grace, and ended it without truth; so hath he herebie but purchased to himself shame, and brought upon his own head the judgements due to an accuser, a blasphemer, a false witness and judge. What opinion the Brownistes hold of the Church of England, their worship, people, ministry, government, we neither know nor regard, neither is there cause why we should be charged or condemned for their errors & faults. For which themselves, and this Church of ENGLAND that receiveth and nourisheth all sectories, heretics, wicked and abominable persons whatsoever, shall account. For us, whom it pleaseth Mr. G. to term Brownistes, and whom he endeavoureth to confute in this treatise, we never condemned any true Church for any fault whatsoever, knowing that where true faith is, there is repentance, where true faith and repentance are, there is remission of all sins. Far be it from us to condemn any whom CHRIST justifieth. 1. And for the Church of ENGLAND we neither did or do condemn it, (as this accuser suggesteth) for such imperfections and corruptions in their worship as be not fundamental or destroy the substance: but we condemned the public worship of their Church of ENGLAND presently enjoined, received and used, as devised by men, popish, superstitious, idolatrous, abominable, not such as God commandeth, requireth, or accepteth, and therefore not such as any faithful christian may offer up unto God, be compelled, or consent unto. This we showed in the first PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION: this we have proved in the first part of this treatise. 2. Secondly we condemn not the Church of England as separate from CHRIST, for that wicked men come with the godly to the public exercises of religion, But rather as never rightly gathered to CHRIST, for that all the profane and wicked are received and retained as members of their Church. We gladly acknowledge that CHRIST came a light into the world, to offer salvation unto all men, to have built his Church upon an hill, there to be lifted up by the preaching of the word as a standard to all people and passengers, there to have made a feast to all nations, and thither to invite them. Neither were we ever so envious of the salvation of others, or of the glory of God, (as having found mercy, and being entered ourselves) to shut the door or stop the fountain of God's grace against others: yea God is witness with what hearty desire we long after them all, that they, even our greatest persecutors, might be partakers of the same salvation, joy, comfort, & happiness with us: And how we intermit not, much less exclude, any means thereunto that God putteth in our power (though it were with the hazard of our own lives) to bring them of the water of the well at Bethelem. But now though we affirm that all the unbelieved & profane not only may, but aught to resort to the public exercises of religion in the Church, as the most excellent means to call them to the faith; yet do we not therefore believe or affirm, that the profane or unbelieved may be received or admitted as members of the Church, before they have made voluntary public profession of their own faith and obedience; Or being entered by such profession, be permitted longer to stand or remain of the Church, than they continue orderly to walk in the same faith and obedience. And therefore we blamed these parish assemblies of England, as consisting of a confuse multitude of all sorts of profane and wicked people in differently: where they are all received, nourished, and retained, as members of the Church, though they were never called & gathered by the power of the word, entered & received by the profession of their own faith, neither walk orderly in the faith, or in any duties either public or private: And so are all guilty of most high sacrilege & profanation of the holy things of God; No such assembly or communion of Saints, as Christ's faithful servants ought to repair or join unto. This we showed in the second PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION. This we have lardgly proved in the second part of this treatise. 3. Thirdly we condemn not the Church of England for some wants in calling and ordaining Ministers; But for having, maintaining, and retaining a false and antichristian ministry imposed upon them, with a false & antichristian calling & ordination even the self same that the Pope used & left in this Realm; which false offices and ministry cannot be joined unto, or exercised in the true Church of CHRIST. This we showed in the third PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION, this we proved in the third part of this treatise. And therefore with an evil and corrupt conscience hath Mr. G. sought to hide this transgression under some wants in the calling and ordaining Ministers, and thus boldly and falsely thereupon to accuse us. We know there may be faults either of ignorance or negligence in the calling ordination etc., yet these not to disannul the action, much less the Covenant so long as they are not obstinately held and persisted in. But our assertion and controversy here is not of a faulty ministry, caling, ordination etc., but of a false ministry, caling, ordination etc., which we have proved theirs to be, and that no such belongeth unto, may be imposed, received, or retained in the Church of CHRIST. 4. Fourthly in like manner we reason not of some wants in the government and order of their Church, but of a false and antichristian government set over the Church. Neither condemn we the Church of ENGLAND for some faults in a true ecclesiastical government, but for having and standing under a false and antichristian government, even the self same Hierarchy, Officers, Courts, Cannons, Customs, Privileges, Proceed, that the Pope used and left. This we also have showed in the 4 TRANSGRESSION, and have now in this fourth part, and through this book, fully proved their present ecclesiastical government to be. To which four principal transgressions a wilful obstinacy, an open rejecting & resisting the truth & all reproof, a violent and most hostile persecution of all such as either refrain, speak against, or reprove their communion, ministry, worship, government, being joined, We may by all these reasons, severally, and have by them altogether, proved these Parish assemblies in this estate not to be the true established Churches of Christ, to which the faithful servants of Christ ought to resort and join.  
So then all men may see how falsely this accuser hath slandered us, and how far he hath strayed from the present matters and transgressions in question, both through his whole book, and in this conclusion of his book, where he chargeth, pronownceth, and condemneth us as heretics etc., for condemning a Church for some light imperfections in their worship, wants in their discipline etc.: whereas we for their idolatry, confusion, sacrilege, false and antichristian ministry, and government, obstinacy in all these sins, hatred of the truth, and persecution of CHRIST'S servants, have proved the Church of ENGLAND not to be the true, but the malignant Church. Therefore we condemn no true Church as he accuseth, neither for such causes as he surmiseth. Nor yet do we, but rather God himself, condemn them. We but discover their sins, and show them their estate by the word of God, refraining and witnessing against their abominations, as we are commanded by that voice from heaven. Go out of her my people, 
〈◊〉. 18.  that ye communicate not in her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues etc.  
In the same love, knowing this terror and irreuo●able decree of the Lord against the false Church and all her children, we most earnestly exhort and instantly beseech, even so many, to whom the truth of the Lord and their own salvation is dear, to flee out of the midst of her, 
2 Cor. 6. 17. 18.  and to save themselves from this perverse generation, and to deliver every man his soul from the fierce wrath of the Lord, 
Acts. 2. 40.  according to the council of the Prophets and Apostles of God. 
jere. 50. &. 51. Chap.  And not to be stayed by the vain persuasions, 
Zach. 2. 7  titles, and promises of these false Prophets, of things present, as of the Church, word, ministry, Sacraments etc., or deluded by their vain hope of things to come, as reformation, salvation etc., or deterred with their vain threats of schism, heresies, danger, persecution etc., from obeying the voice of God, whilst he yet speaketh and calleth unto you, and offereth grace, lest you despise the acceptable time of the Lord, the day of his salvation, and he swear in his wrath that you shall not enter into his rest for your disobedience, and then hereafter your flight be in the winter or on the Sabbath, when the wrath of God is come upon you, and there be no means or way to escape. For the vain boastings of these prophets of things present, and promises of things to come, read Revel. 18. where the Holy Ghost showeth their Church to become the habitation of Devils, the prison of every unclean spirit, the cage of every unclean and hateful bird, howsoever she boast herself a Queen; to be no Widow, to see, no sorrow. For this in one day shall her plagues come, death, and sorrow, and famine, and she shallbe burnt in fire, because the God that condemneth her is a mighty Lord. You there read how neither her shipmasters, marchantmen, Princes, or multitudes, shallbe able to reserve her wares, or preserve her from the burning of this heavenly fire; No lamentation can ease or diminish her sorrow and grief: No balm can cure her wounds, no art reform or repair her breaches, nor arm or power shield her from the weight of that great millstone that shall press her and all her children to the depth of hell, being lifted up over her by that mighty Angel. The Lord hath pronounced & his decree is irrevocable. The voice of his heavenly harpers & musicians, the psalms & spiritual songs & laudes of his Saints, shall never be heard in her any more: the skill and art of any heavenly artificer, worckman, or builder, shall never be found in her any more: the voice of the millstone that grindeth food for the soul, shall never be heard in her any more: the light of a candle, much less the burning lamps of God's spirit, shall never shine in her any more to keep out darkness: the heavenly and comfortable voice of the Bridegroom, and of the Bride; of CHRIST speaking to his Church in instruction, exhortation, comfort, of CHRIST'S Church speaking to him in prayers, praises etc., shall never be heard in her any more. Let her Shipmasters then, her Mariners, Marchantmen, Enchanters, and false Prophets utter and retail her wares, deck and adorn her with the scarlet, purple, gold, silver, jewels, and ornaments of the true Tabernacle, Let them in her offer up their sacrifices, their beasts, sheep, meal, wine, oil, their odours, ointments, and franckencense, Let them daub and undershore her, build, and reform her, until the storm of the lords wrath break forth, 
Ezech. 13.  the morning whereof all these Divines shall not foresee, 
Esay. 47.  much less eschew or withstand the terror thereof, 
Prou 1. 24 etc.  until the wall and the daubers be no more. But let the wise that are warned and see the evil, fear and departed from the same, so shall they preserve their own souls as a pray: And the Lord shall bring them amongst his redeemed to Zion with praise, and everlasting joy shallbe upon their heads, they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and mourning shall flee away.  
FINIS.   

AS WE showed in these 4. PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSIONS, in the worship, communion, ministri & government of the Church of ENGLAND, the causes of our separation from their public assemblies in this estate; So at their instance we in like manner set down unto them our purpose & intent, what we now endeavoured & meant to do, in certain brief Articles. Of those transgressions & charges, how this Champion hath defended & cleared their Church, by that which hath been written now on both sides may appear. The articles of themselves are so just and holy, as no Devil can impugn or deny▪ no man of religion, conscience, or shame gainsay or resist any one of them: yet hath Mr. GIFFARD (instigated by the spirit of vainglory and envy) in a singular zeal enterprised to answer and confute them all, as you may see in his first writing. The cavils and vanity whereof, as also his unjust suspicions, calumniations, reproaches against us thereupon being laid open in our first reply unto him, so far hath he been from desisting to sporne against the prikes, to slander, accuse, and rail on us, or to take a more sober and christian course for the discussing and deciding these controversies betwixt him and us, as he hath burst forth yet into further malice and madness, blaspheming us in every sentence of this his second answer to these our articles with such store of contumelious and odious words, as if that corrupt synck of his heart could never be emptied, the malice of his mind and venom of his tongue never satiate or uttered against us, even now as fresh as if he had not railed enough or all in his writings and book before. But seeing his reproaches want both proof and truth, they deserve neither refutation nor repetition. Neither can they preiudize our holy profession, or us, or any way justify or excuse him before God or man; but rather add to his fearful account before God, and evidently show unto all men, by what spirit his heart and pen were guided at the writing of these contumelious answers. Wherein yet most strange it is, how he could take occasion to ●ade us with all this vituperie, for propounding these godly articles & holy duties, especially having showed withal such just causes of our separation from their assemblies. But let us now take a view of his reasons wherewith he hath disproved our endeavours in these articles, and see whether they be of as great validity, as those wherewith he hath approved their assemblies in the transgressions by us objected. The articles, answers, and our former reply I will not here again insert, referring to the copies above.  
HIs cavilling & trifling about these words [CHRIST'S Kingdom] in his former answer to our first Article, 
Article 1.  together with his hypocrisy in seeming to labour for CHRIST'S government, were by us laid open in our reply: as also his unjust surmise, that we should hold that CHRIST'S Kingdom could not be in any, except they had that his outward ecclesiastical government, was there by us fully answered and cleared. He now in his second answer as vainly endeavoureth to clear himself of his former cavilling and hypocrisy, by denijing the necessary sense of his former words; and by propounding two new questions unto us instead of answering our two questions unto him, which we rather expected. Let the indifferent reader judge whether to all intendment he made not CHRIST'S Kingdom only inward, and his ecclesiastical government but an help for the preservation of his inward kingdom, in the first part of his former answer, howsoever afterward he vouchsalfed it to be a part of his Kingdom. Unto his contumelious blasphemous questions we answer, That when he shall have duly convinced us of heresies, or schism, to have condemned a true ministry, to have falsely accused a true Church, than we will confess ourselves to be more than ignorant and rash: till then all these reproaches shall but follow his other sins into God's sight to hasten his own judgement. Our questions also whilst they remain unanswered, (and as we think unanswerable,) must still lay open their bad estate and hypocrisy, In that whilst they remain antichristian Ministers in the false Church, And have so long continued under Antichrist's yoke and ecclesiastical government, they cannot be said either to have or sincerely to labour for CHRIST'S ecclesiastical government, as he and they then pretended. And here by the way I must draw two dangerous positions, and in the same observe great contrariety in Mr. G. unto himself. First, in that they and he pretended to labour, and had so long sued to parliaments for CHRIST'S government or discipline, they confess the absence and want of the same: For a fond thing it were to labour and sue for that which already they have. Then if they want and have not CHRIST'S ecclesiastical government; and receive an other ecclesiastical government over their Church and ministry which is not his, it must needs be a false and antichristian government: And so they and their whole Church by their own confession stand under Antichrist's yoke and government, and have not CHRIST their King to rule over them, except they can show that CHRIST doth rule in his Church by antichrist's officers and government, which I think will be hard to prove: and then are they and their Church in a bad estate. As also Mr. G. herein contrary to himself, who erewhile affirmed this present government of these BB s. their hierarchy and Courts to be the true ecclesiastical government of Christ. And that they were not antichristian. Further he hath observed & reserved one special point in our reply. That the kingdom of God may be in the scattered faithful, which as yet have not the ecclesiastical discipline. This we grant & never denied: although Mr. G. whatsoever he now say, then surmised the contrary of us, or else had small cause so vehemently to have refuted this opinion. But we are content that it shall now remain to his use.  
THe second article of seeking Gods true worship, 
Article. ●.  he granteth that all men ought to approve. Being demanded in our Reply, how then he continued in idolatry, a Minister of idolatry, prophesied in BAAL, and pleaded for BAAL; Or how he could approve our article, and yet condemn us of schism and heresy because we forsake their false, devised, idolatrous worship, and seek to worship God according to his word. To those he answereth that when we have proved their worship to be idolatry, and that they prophecy in BAAL, and plead for BAAL, than he is content that men take us for no schismatics or heretics. And this I hope we have in this treatise done, having showed their worship to be devised by man, idolatrous, abominable, their ministry to be as false, dirived from and exercised under their BAAL'S these Bishops; And how earnestly Mr. G. hath pleaded for these Baal's their throne and all the enormities proceeding from the same, these his own books shall testify. So that I hope we are now cleared with all men, and shall hereafter be spared of him, from the odious accusations of schism and heresy.  
THe. 
Art. 3. 4.  3. 4. and 5. Articles (after Mr. G. his division) tending to one effect, and begetting but the same common difficulties, may together be handled. The chief controversies about the same are these two. 1. Whether these public assemblies of their parishes be antichristian & Babylonish. 2. Then whether the Church consisting but of private men, may in this estate erect & establish amongst them such offices & ordinances of CHRIST, as he hath instituted to the ministri & government of his Church. Of the first, both Mr. G. & I have now lardgly set down our minds: so that I leave it as fit for judgement, than any further discussing in this place; The reasons here repeated. 1. How their Churches are from ancient descent within the Covenant. 2. And how their Church in this estate hath begotten and nourished children unto God, as the Martyrs, have been already often propounded and urged by him in his book. I hope by that time he hath well considered of the heresies, sacrilege, and absurdities of the first, and of the vain assumption and little consequence of the second, as they are set down in our answers, he shall have little cause to use them so often, or to urdge them with such confidence & bitterness. For when Mr. G. shall prove, that a Nation so highly apostatate & fallen from the faith, so deiply plunged into such execrable idolatries, abominations, & hardness of heart, as in the papistical corruption, still continueth in this estate a true established visible church, within the outward Covenant of God, so far as we may & aught to judge by his word, them doubtless for my part I will grant it a sound Maior proposition. And if he shall bring the church of Rome for instance in the Minor, I must then yield to his argument. Because y● church at Rome was sometimes rightly gathered, established, and within the covenant. Yet even then I suppose it will be hard for him to make the like assured proof, that ever her daughter of England was rightly established into that christian order & within the covenant: But I doubt rather, and by her present estate judge, 
Reu. 17. 2.  that she was among the children of her Mother's fornications, 
Deut. 23. 2.  and therefore without the Covenant. To the second reason it will also hardly follow, that because some faithful men have been called to some general knowledge of God and of Christ in this estate, and because they in their ignorance cotynued in the same estate, that this should therefore justify the outward estate of the Church which the word of God condemneth, or prove it in this estate the true established Church of Christ, when they have nothing aright according to Christ's ordinance, as we have proved in this treatise, whether I refer for a more full answer of these reasons, hasting to the second point.  
Wherein I before showed how God commandeth all his faithful servants (of what estate or degree soever) to flee out of Babylon the false Church, and being escaped not to stand still, to remember the Lord a far off, to let jerusalem come into their mind, to go up to ZION, to seek out and to repair unto the place where God hath put his name. To seek the Church and the kingdom of CHRIST, to take his yoke upon them, to assemble together in his name, with his promise of direction and protection; and with his authority to establish his offices and ordinances amongst them, given by him to the ministry and government of his Church unto the worlds end, there to lead their lives together in all mutual duties, in his holy order, faith, and fear. Now as we showed all particular and private men whosoever, to be called out of the false Church from confusion, and out of the world from dispersion, unto the true Church unto order. So likewise showed we, that all these faithful persons whosoever, were as yet but private men at their first coming out of the false Church and gathering together, none of them being as yet called to any ecclesiastical office or function in the Church, it not being as yet established into order. Whereupon we concluded, and still of necessity enforce, That seeing God calleth all his servants out of confusion, and will not have them live in dissipation or disorder, but only in this order which he hath prescribed in his word; And hath given his Church authority and commandment, to erect, retain, and observe this order unto the worlds end; And seeing in this estate the Church now consisteth but of private men; That therefore the faithful being as yet but private men, aught by the commandment of God to assemble & join themselves together in the name & faith of Christ, and in all mutual duties orderly to proceed according to the rules of the word, to a holy choice & use of such offices & ordinances as Christ hath ordained to the service & government of his Church. And sure were not Mr. G. as forgeatful as he is ignorant of the scriptures, he could not but have seen by the very phrase the first proposition confirmed by many scriptures; The second by many prophecies of this general defection; and if not verified in these present times, yet he cannot deny but some former not long sithence. Therefore whilst he fighteth with the conclusion, he but spurneth against the pricks, bewrayeth the folly of his own heart, and no way avoideth or defendeth the danger thereby.  
His best answer to this reason, or rather many reasons summed up, is (as he thinketh) to turn it away by two questions, and by manifold contumelies against our poor persons; or (to say as it is) by inaudible blasphemies against the Church of God: likening the assembly of the faithful gathered in the name, and joined together in the faith of Christ, proceeding to th'establishing and exercise of Christ's or dinances; to the rebellious company of Corath, Dathan, & Abyram, to a rout of mutynous apprentices assembled without leave of their Prince to choose a Lord Maior etc. His first question is, That if all were private at the first coming out of the false Church, who they were that called them together? Or whether their coming together doth make them otherwise then private? We answer, that for any thing we can see, or may judge by the word, they were but private men that first called them out of the false Church, and that caused them to assemble together, howsoever peradventure endued with more excellent gifts, and more rare graces then other. Further, that being thus assembled they ceased not to be private men, until they were lawfully called unto some true ecclesiastical office in and by the Church. Yet all this notwithstanding, the Church in this estate now consisting only of private men, aught to proceed to a right choice of Ministers etc., according to the commandment of God. His next stombling-block or question, is; Who should ordain these Pastors & Elders. And whether we ever read of any ordained but by Apostles, Evangelists, Pastors, Teachers, and Governors? And whether that power was not at the first derived from th'extraordinary Ministers to the Ordinary. To this we have above answered, where we entreated of the ordination of the Ministers of England, and here again do answer. That the Church had always the power to choose and ordain their own Ministers, whereunto it ought to use the most fit instruments, whether these Pastors, Teachers, Elders (if such be to be had) or else where they be not to be had to use the fittest means and instruments that God exhibiteth. For this power of ordination is not (as Mr. G. and the unruly clergy of these days suppose) derived from the Apostles & Evangelists unto the permanent ministry of Pastors and Elders, neither belongeth it by any peculiar right to their offices and persons segregate from the Church. But it is given by Christ and properly belongeth unto the Church, whereunto their Ministry and persons also belong, and are by the Church to be used unto this work as occasion is administered. And thus (if a vail were not laid over Mr. G. his heart at the reading of the scriptures) he might find that those chief builders the Apostles & evangelists themselves used this power, not to take it from the Church, but therein to assist the Church, As we read Act. 13. Where the Church being assembled unto fasting, prayer, and other holy exercises, it is there said also, that they laid hands upon the Apostles, and sent them out, though we doubt not the Church did it by some one or more of the Prophets or Elders, 
Act. 14. 26. 27.  and unto the Church at their return the Apostles declared the success of their journey. In which journey also, the Apostles ordaining or rather helping the Churches to choose and ordain Elders, 
Act. 14. 23.  the word cheirotonesantes lifting up hands, whereby the whole action of choosing & ordaining is expressed, doth clearly give the property and right thereof unto the Churches, and not unto the Apostles only. who, as also the Evangelists, did but instruct, direct, help, and assist the Church herein, and not pluck away this power from the Churches. Likewise the rules for the choice and ordination of Ministers in the Epistles to Timothy & Titus, and other places of the scripture, as Rom. 12. 1 Cor. 12. Eph. 4. are not particularly directed or committed to the consistory of Elders, as they call it, sequestered & withdrawn from the Church, but unto the Church consisting of all the members. which is thereunto to use (as in all other public & weighty causes) such meet & fit instruments as the Lord affordeth and apoyncteth. Neither is this action of approbation, and acception, or ordination of Ministers so severed or disjoined from the election as these men dream: Or so tied to the office or persons of the Elders, as the Church might either not ordain, or not ordain without Elders. And aswell might the Elders take into their hands the elections, excommunications etc., of the Church, as the ordination in this manner; Again if the ordination were thus of necessity tied to the hands & office of Elders, how then should the Church after this general defection & corruption under Antichrist (where all the stars were fallen to the earth, 
Reu. 6. 12. 13. 14.  and the whole shape of the heaven departed away as a book wrapped up, a new & strange ministry brought out of the bottomless pit with him, as we read) ever recover or have any true▪ 
Reu. 9  Ministry again in this world? where should they have true Elders to ordain their Ministers? In the false and papistical Church there can be no true Elders or Ministers of Christ The true members of Christ can not be made the members of that Beast, the members of that Harlot. The true Ministers of Christ cannot belong unto, neither can administer in the false Church, but only belong unto and administer in the true established Church of Christ. But now in the time of this general apostasy and papistical corruption Mr. G. cannot show any where any true visible established Church upon earth, with the true ministry, government, worship, sacraments, ordinances of Christ, howsoever in a singular conceit of his own, he have pleaded the Church of Rome, and her daughters in their deipest apostasy, to be in the true Church, they and all theirs within the Covenant from ancient descent, to have the true seal thereof, namely baptism, there given unto them all. Yet here not being to be found any true christian Ministers or Elders, who shall now ordain their Ministers, at their first coming out of popery & departing from the Romish Church? For now we will transfer the case from ourselves (who are so odious in Mr. G. his eyes as no good thing willbe allowed in or to us) unto themselves.  
When they first came out of popery were they then Corah his company, an assembly of mutinous apprentices? Were they not all private men? Or which of them was otherwise? Ordinary or permanent Ministers they could not be: because there was no true visible established Church upon earth, and for a thousand reasons that might be drawn from the forgery of their office, administration etc., in the popish Church. Extraordinary Ministers, Apostles, or Evangelists the could not be, because (as we have above proved) they were ceased after the foundation was once laid, and the work rightly erect according to the true pattern. Neither find we to any one established Church, the offices of Apostles or Evangelists particularly given, belonging, or erected in any of them as a ministri of continuance. Neither had these men the caling due to Apostles & Evangelists. Nor yet did they challenge or execute any such office, as appeareth by their writings and profession, where they would not have been ashamed of the ministry God had called them unto to have published themselves such as they were. But if so be they had done this, yet their practise being so discrepant from the apostolic pattern & work of the former Evangelists, we might not at any hand accept them for such. Thus then at their first coming out of the false. Church, and gathering together, they were but private men. What then, were they heretics & schismatics for departing out of the false church? were they conventiclers, sectories etc., for assembling together? were they usurpers and intruders without caling, mutineers, rebels against Princes, and abridgers of their power, and withdrawers from their obedience & allegiance for dissuading the people from the false Church, the yoke of Antichrist & all their detestable idolatries and enormities, for caling them to the communion of Saints, to proceed to the choice of Ministers, and to the practise of Christ's Testament as the Lord should reveal unto them? All this they did, or at the least professed & endeavoured to do. Yet I hope Mr. G. that so buildeth their Tombs and garnisheth their sepulchers, will not thus say of them, howsoever he rail on us that do and protest to do no whit more. If they were faithful Christians, such are we: holding the same common faith with them & all Saints, not (as yet) truly charged, or duly convinced of any one error contrary to the faith. They left the false Church, so do we. They assembled & joined together in the faith of Christ, so do we, or at the lest would do. They were but private men, and so are we. They herein are not judged to have offended God or their Prince, and why should we for the same? They herein did more, then to come out of Babylon, They did more than sweep or repair the house, for they proceeded to the choice & ordination of Mi●●sters, to the building of the house etc., Or else Mr. G. by his own reasons must condemn them, the Church, and all the ministry of the land, yea of all Europe, as well as us.  
IF he allege that though they left their popish administration, and to administer in the popish Church, yet they left not that ministery they there had; We answer (as we have answered) that they received no better ministry in the false Church, than the false Church could & did give them; neither could they bring any better out, than they there received. But the true ministery belongeth not to the false Church, neither can the false Church ordain true Ministers. Again whoseuer leaveth the public administration of his Ministry, forsaketh his Ministry: But they left the public administration of their ministry. The like argument may be drawn for leaving the Church whereof they were Ministers. And yet to stop his mouth farther, if the Martyrs and first witnesses had a true ministry, such also have sundry of us whom he termeth Brownistes etc., yea by so much a better, as he holdeth the ministry of the Church of England better than the ministry of the Church of Rome. Yea if Mr. G. his own ministry be good, such & the same have divers of us had, and are as yet undisgraded, otherwise then by unfeigned repentance of so detestable a Ministry. So that if they lost not their ministry by forsaking the Church they received it of, and exercised it in; why should Mr. G. be so severe to judge others, that may make the same plea? If they say they left not the Church of Rome but the corruptions thereof, what should let us to allege the same now against them, if we would stand upon those shifts & doublings, But we use no such coloured excuses, neither rely upon men's persons and doings. we have the express commandment of God for our warrant of all those things we do, or refuse to do, and stand to make proof & trial thereof by the same word, gladly submitting ourselves, all our actions and whole faith unto this trial. Although also we have and use th'examples and practise of these faithful, that first came out of the popish Church, and enterprised the erection and practise of Christ's Ministry & ordinances amongst themselves, according to that measure of knowledge God gave them. Whose errors though we shun (neither will maintain our own when they shallbe showed us, cleaving only to the true pattern of God's word) yet make we their precedent a bulwark for us against these cavilling enemies; Who must, for doing these things either condemn them, and so themselves, and their whole Church and doings with them, Or else with no shame or justice condemn us of heresy, schism, sects, presumption, intrusion, rebellion etc., for doing the self same things they did, or at the least professed to do; yea for doing them better & nearer the true pattern than they did. If they in this doing neither intruded without caling, nor presumed above their caling, Why are we judged for this doing to do both? yea for this saying, to have put an halter about our necks? Doth not this our hangman & executioner (that with joy speaketh of the chains and fetters, that these bloody bishops lay upon the faithful servants of Christ, for leaving their antichristian yoke and seeking Christ's heavenly government) put with the same hand, and trise the halter about these godly Martyrs' necks, yea about his own and his Lord Bishop's necks, and all the Ministers necks of the land? that have no other defence for their ungodly ministry and doings, than the erroneous practise of these godly Martyrs, who (as hath been proved) were but private men at their first coming out of popery & erection of these Churches, as we now be? Mr. GIFF. had not best show us many of these tricks of legier du main, lest he ensnarrle & choke himself with the same halter he would cast about our necks, and kill himself & his whole Church with that sharp weapon wherewith he would kill us at once in his furious mood. For sure if it be unlawful for private men to assemble, and in this estate to proceed to the election & ordination of Ministers, then by the same law was it unlawful for them so to do. Then are all these Bishops & Ministers private men, usurpers; no more true Ministers, than such a one as the mutinous apprentices should make Mayor, were a true Mayor. Yea let me go further, if the Church consisting of private men, may not in this estate erect and ordain Christ's true ministry amongst them, than is there no true ministri upon earth, neither ever can be, until God raise up new Apostles and Evangelists, and buildeth a new Church upon a new foundation, which shallbe when we have a new Christ. And then Mr. G. shall have his dream. For he saith that when God will have his work done, he will raise up extraordinary workmen thereunto. But where read Mr. G. this position, if not amongst the anabaptists? Sure he never found it in the new Testament, where we have the mind of Christ, a perfect foundation, an accompleat ministry, 
Deut. 30. 11 12. 13. 14.  until Christ's coming. So that we need not to say in our hearts, who shall ascend up to heaven for us, or descend from heaven unto us, 
Rom. 10. 6. 7. 8.  or go over the sea for us to bring or teach us the Commandment of our God, when the word is so near us even in our mouths and in our hearts for to do it. Therefore when Mr. G. shall make his proof of this assertion, And show his warrant and promise that God will now raise up to his Church extraordinary worckmen, and that till than no private men ought to proceed to the choice and ordination of Ministers, but to tarry and expect this promise of the Lord: Then surely we will acknowledge him no false Prophet, no anabaptistical dreamer, and that we have presumed over far upon the lords authority and commandment given to his Church unto the worlds end, to choose and ordain his ministery, and to practise amongst them whatsoever he hath commanded. But now because this were to bring Christ from above, and again from the dead, because also we have Gods direct commandment to go out of the false Church; being come out, to assemble and join together; and being so joined, to proceed to the erection of his ministry and practise of his ordinances, and have his authority & promise of blessing to these proceed, because we have the practise of Christ's Apostles in planting the primitive Churches, and now lately th'examples of such as endeavoured to build this Church they live in, we dare not by any vain hope or threats of this false Prophet be drawn to neglect so great salvation, to continue either in apostasy or disorder, and to transgress or neglect the lords commandment.  
THe next objection against us is drawn from an especial observation in our first Article, where we confessed the universal Church and kingdom of CHRIST to extend to all such as by true faith apprehend and confess CHRIST JESUS, howsoever they be scattered, and wheresoever dispersed upon the face of the whole earth. Hence Mr. GIFF. concludeth, that seeing the faithful may be in state of grace and have CHRIST their King, though they live not under that government & order that CHRIST hath established in and to his Church, therefore it is not necessary for private men to set it up. Sure this is a weak argument, and not worth half the noting & observation he hath made of it: we must for all this deny it: and find no more consequent, then if he had therefore concluded that the communion of Saints, the ministry and ecclesiastical government of CHRIST are not to be sought of the faithful, because some faithful may be saved that live not in an established church, vizt: such as are in captivity, sickness, age, or in such times & place, as they know not where to find one day of the Son of man. 
Luk. 17. 22. etc.  He might aswell conclude, that because God is able & doth save some in the false Church, Therefore private men ought not to forsake the false Church. God is able to save some in dispertion out of the established Church, Therefore private men ought not to seek the established Church.  
THe last & greatest matter is, that we run before the Prince's commandment, whose duty it is to reform Churches. Private men might not so much as sweep them, much less build them. For this is to erect a state & government, because the power of the Church is both public & great. We have above showed, that the Church hath God's commandment & authority always, to erect Christ's ministri & government amongst them. That the Church in this estate consisteth only of of private men, neither are there any true Ministers any where to be found upon the earth: neither any extraordinary Ministers to be looked for, seeing they are long since ceased. Therefore the Church in this estate consisting only of private men, aught to erect this ministery and government: else should they also cease and never be had again upon the earth: and so should there never be any established Church, ministry, Sacraments etc., again in this world. yet here must be noted by the way, that Mr. G. runneth too much upon, and wresteth too far these words [private men] when we speak of the Church consisting only of private men. Now unto his crimination, the Church having this commandment & authority given of God unto the worlds end, we before showed him that no Prince might take it away, or without great wrong hinder them from the performance hereof. yea that the servants of God ought not to be stayed from doing the commandments of God, upon any restraint or persecution of any mortal man whosoever. For this we alleged the examples and practise of the Apostles, who then had been guilty of the same disobedience & rebellion, if Princes in this business had been to be stayed for, or their restraint had been a sufficient let. yea that persecution and the cross of Christ were utterly abolished, if the Church and faithful were not to proceed in their duties, until Princes give leave. We showed also, that the obedience and practise of God's will was no disobedience or prei●dize to the Prince. That we attempted nothing beyond our calling, neither transgressed in our calling. We meddled not with the reformation of any public abuse either in the common wealth or in their Church, otherwise, then by prayers unto God, and godly exhortation. We only according unto God's commandment refrained from their idolatry and other public evils, and assembled together in all holy and peaceable manner to worship the Lord our God, and to join ourselves together in the faith unto mutual duties. This we showed to be the duty of every private man that would be saved, to leave the false Church, and to seek the true Church. And being thus assembled & joined in the faith, we showed it to be their duty together to seek that ministry and government which Christ hath left unto his Church, and for the Church to erect the same.  
Unto the Apostles proceeding without the licence of Princes he maketh a double answer. One in respect of the persons of the Apostles, that they were furnished with a special commission and authority from CHRIST himself to set up his kingdom: which commission and power the Pastors and Teachers successively received & delivered over to others, so that private men may not have this power. The other in respect of those Princes in the Apostles time, which were all heathen, and therefore it had been bootless to sue to them. But where there is a christian Prince that holdeth the fundamental points of the christian faith (though otherwise this christian Prince do err in some matters of doctrine, or touching the rules of discipline) every godly private man is to keep a good conscience, not breaking the unity and peace of the Church. But not to take public authority to reform.  
THese instances of the persons of the Apostles and Princes as they are little to the purpose, so do they him as little good. If the commandment of God were sufficient warrant to the Apostles to do their work, though all the Princes of the world resisted; then must the commandment of the same God be of the same effect to all other instruments, whom it pleaseth the Lord to use in their callings to his service also, though all the Princes in the world should withstand and forbid the same. For neither dignity of the persons that are used, make the commandment of God of more authority or necessity to be done: neither yet the greatness or the goodness of the persons that withstand this commandment of God, make it of less authority or necessity. Only let the servants of God be sure to have the commandment and calling of their God for that they do, and then they need not fear the Powers that are placed of 
Rom. 13.  of God for the praise and not for the punishment of the good. Our question then is not whether private men may do that which is not their duty, to which they have no commandment, as this accuser surmizeth to bring us into danger and hatred; But whether they may not do that which God commandeth them, within the limits of their caling. As to for●ake idolatry and the false Church, to seek the true worship of God in the true Church, though all the Princes of the world, whether believers or infidels should forbid the same; And this we affirm to be the duty of every particular person, whosoever forbidden. We say not now that private men may reform the false Church, abolish public idolatry, or depose a false ministry that the King setteth up. This were to break the boundess of their calling, to intrude upon the Prince's office; and great cause had they then to fear, for he beareth not the sword in vain. Again, our question is not whether it is the office and duty of Princes to see abuses reform both in the Church and common Wealth (which we think no man to be so ignorant or barbarous to deny, except the anabaptists▪ But whether the Church ought not now amongst themselves freely to practise CHRIST'S Testament, either in erecting his officers and ordinances, or in reforming or correcting any fault or abuse that ariseth amongst them, without staying for the Prince's licence: yea though the Prince should upon the pains of death forbidden. This we affirm to be the duty of every particular Congregation, 
Math. 18. & 28. 20.  CHRIST having therefore given unto each and all of them his sacred power and authority to bind and to loose in earth, and to do all things whatsoever he hath commanded them, with promise to be with them unto the end of the world. He hath given them the two edged sword of his mouth to cut down all sin, The mighty spiritual weapons of his word to bring in captivity every thought to the obedience of CHRIST, 
2. Cor. 10.  to to the overthrowing of all munitious reasonings and sublimity lifted up against the knowledge of God, and to have in a readiness to revendge all disobedience. To cast sin into the Epha, and the talon of God's judgement upon it, and to remove it out of the Church with all power and celerity, 
I●●b. 5.  with the wings of a Stork and the wind under their wings, and to lift up the Epha betwixt the heaven and the earth in the eyes of all men. 
Marck. 34. etc.  CHRIST hath given this authority to his servants whom he hath left in his house, and hath commanded them all therefore to watch together. 
Rom. 16. 17.  To observe and avoid them that cause any divisions or offences contrary to the doctrine that they have learned. 
jude. 3.  To contend for the maintenance of the whole faith. 
Gal. 1. 8.  Not to intermit or to be withdrawn from any part of the same by any man or Angel, for persecution or any thing that man can do unto them: every where warning, instructing, and exhorting his servants not to fear persecution for righteousness sake, to take up and bear his cross daily etc.: Likewise for the neglect of those things God reproveth and stirreth up the Churches To repent and to do the first works, or else he will come against them speedily, and remove their candlestick. 
Reu. 2. 10 & 3. 10. etc.  To repent or else he will come against them speedily and fight against them with the sword of his mouth, Commending those Churches that kept that they had, the word of his patience in persecution, promising them the Crown of life, if they remain faithful unto the death: to make them that overcome pillars in the Temple of God etc.  
Mr. Giffard he is contented, that under heathen or popish Princes the Church now may reform or proceed in the practise of the whole will of God, but at no hand where the Prince possesseth the faith in the fundamental points, though otherwise he err and mislead the whole Church in some matters of doctrine, or touching the rules of discipline. In these abuses and corruptions every private man is to keep a good conscience, but none to take public authority to reform: Because these Kings are principal members of the Church etc. What clear conscience any private man that yieldeth to these public seen errors or transgressions, Or the whole Church, whilst it wittingly doth, or suffereth these things to be done, can keep, we have above showed in the SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION. How expressly contrary this leavened traditional proposition of Mr. G. is to all these Scriptures and doctrines above recited, is so evident to all men, as it needeth no further or lardger refutation. If God have committed his whole word unto his Church, as the foundation of their faith and of every action they do, commanding them to stand to the death for the maintenance of the whole truth and the holy practise of the same; and to cast out in his name and power all, that publicly and obstinately hold any opinion, or that so commit any transgression contrary to his word: If God for the neglect hereof have menaced to come in judgement, 
Deut. 13.  and exhorteth the Churches upon the first discovery hereof to speedy repentance; 
jer. 6. 8. 23  How can Mr. G. persuade the Church to continue wittingly in open errors & public transgression, or in this estate promise them peace? The holy Ghost hath not set down this as a note of a true Prophet: Neither hath God promised any peace to them, that wittingly continue in any error or transgression, until they repent: Doth not one dead fly putrefy and cause to stink the whole ointment of the Apothecary? A little leaven make sour the whole lump? We would know of him therefore, whether that devilish distinction of fundamental errors and transgressions, and such errors and transgressions as he holdeth not fundamental (whereby he turneth away the practise of what part of God's word he lusteth, and justifieth (or at the least tolerateth) what open errors & public transgressions of God's word he lusteth) will excuse him, or any that wittingly break the least of God's commandments? And whether the authority or christianity of any Prince will in that day excuse before the Lord any man, that hath at the Prince's commandment committed, much more continued to commit, any transgression, without unfeigned repentance? But if the least error be contrary to true faith, the least transgression sin, and no known sin or error to be committed or continued in: how can he persuade the Church to commit or to continue in any error or transgression? so highly to tempt and provoke the Lord? And now to the point. we would know of him whether any Prince, much less a christian Prince, may abrogate the commandment of God, or take away that power and authority that God hath given to the Church unto the worlds end. If not, but that the commandments of God remain always the same, and the Church hath the same power under a christian magistrate, that under a heathen, why then it ought not to proceed to the obedience and practise of God's word, whether in correcting and redressing faults, or in going forward in the ways of God as they are revealed unto them, as well and freely under a Christian Prince as under an heathen? Is it because a Christian Princd is the principal and greatest member of the Church▪ why by so much the rather ought and the better may the Church do it, having now such a singular help and rare accomplishment of so precious a member. Every true member is given for the help and comfort, and not for the hindrance and hurt of the body: We may then much better conclude, that the Church under a christian Prince may proceed with all freedom in the sincere practise of CHRIST'S Gospel: because he is a member of CHRIST & of the Church: then under an infidel Prince, that is an enemy to CRHIST and to the Church.  
ANother reason he bringeth, why the Church under a christian Prince may not reform without his licence, or until he will▪ because it is the office of a christian Prince to reform the Church, and therefore the Church in taking such a public work upon them, should but usurp and encroach upon his office. Because we are so apt to mis-understand one an other, and to take words in too large or strait a sense, it were good we set down what is meant by this reformation here spoken of, before we proceed. We mean then by reformation, to reduce all things and actions to the true ancient and primitive pattern of God's word. This we graun to be the office and duty of the Prince to do aswell in the Church as in the common Wealth. The Prince's eye may suffer no transgression of God's law, he is to oversee, and see every one to do their duties in the office and caling God hath placed them. Yet is this no preiudize to the Christian liberty and power of the Church, no impediment to any member thereof, but rather a singular preservation of all duties, and an excellent instigation of them all to do the will of God in their callings. For in all this here is no power given the Prince to restrain any iore of the liberty and power of the Church, or to withhold any one person from doing the whole will of God in their caling: much less is here any power give the Prince to draw or compel the Church or any member thereof to the least transgression or error: yea when the Prince shall in any thing be found contrary to God, God is then to be obeyed rather then man. And this is no disobedience to the Princes sovereign and supreme power over all persons and causes ecclesiastical or civil, is no preiudize or impediment to the Church, or to any member thereof, from doing the whole will of God in their callings: So in like manner are not the proceed of the Church according to CHRIST'S Testament, any derogation from or enchrochment of, the royal power and prerogative of Princes, as this false Prophet out of the mouth of Sathau would persuade: but rather a singular preservation and most rare illustration thereof. Whose reigns are never so glorious as when, or glorious but when, God is worshipped and obeyed according to his revealed word, and those most cherished and favoured, that are most faithful therein. In the Church of CHRIST are all duties most faithfully taught, and no known transgression of any known duty suffered, either to God or man. How then can Satan himself say, that the proceed of the Church, or rather or Christ in his Church, are contrary to, or derogate from the royal power of Princes? They cannot be of God that thus set at variance these blessed powers which God hath so conjoined and contempered for the mutual help each of other, and the service of his glory. No it is the false Church and this antichristian hierarchy that are prejudicial unto, enchroch upon, and usurp the Royal authority, power, jurisdiction, titles, honours, prerogatives, lads, palaces, pomp etc.▪ of Princes. The true Church both knoweth how to obey the Lord, and their Prince in the Lord. They usurp not the Prince's office when they reform any public fault in the worship, administration, government ecclesiastical etc., but execute their own office. For this is not the Prince's office to do in person, but to command the Church to do it by such instruments as God hath there unto ordained. This commandment of the Prince doth neither give the Church more power, or make the action more lawful: Neither doth the prohibition of any Prince take away this power of the Church that God hath given, or make the action that God hath commanded more unlawful. How then doth the Church more sin in doing these duties in reformation and correction of public faults, and proceeding in the practise of God's will, (which God hath commanded to be done by his Church) than any private man sinneth, when he correcteth any fault in himself or in his family, or beginneth to do any duty (which he before neglected) without his Prince's licence? Seeing the Prince's eye, power, and office extendeth aswell to civil as to ecclesiastical duties, aswell to private as to public reformation. yea the Prince's licence in all Christian consideration, extendeth to all godly duties & honest actions, even to as many things either to be done or to be left undone, as the commandments of God extend unto; For he is the Minister of God for the praise of them that do well, and for the punishment of them that do evil. when the Prince resisteth or suffereth not the word of God to have free passage, he sinneth & doth not his duty. But this can be no excuse for us to cease to do the will of God, or to intermit our duty. If he draw the sword and smite us for well doing, that but augmenteth his sin, and the blessing of God resteth upon us that suffer for righteousness sake. we may not for fear of persecution, or for the indignation of Princes leave the commandments of God undone. For that were with this false Prophet to mancipate the law of God to the will of Princes, and utterly to abolish the cross of Christ out of the world, For Princes never punish men for obeying, but for breaking their hests. Beastly then & hellish is the speech of this man, That saith, the Church refuseth the peace of their Prince, and provoketh him to strike, when they either reform such faults as are in the Church, or proceed to do such things as God hath commanded them, though the Prince forbidden and will not give licence. But especially where the blasphemer is not afraid to say, that the Church when it proceedeth to the establishing and practise of Christ's ordinances, erecteth a state & government of their own. Do they erect any thing of themselves, or that CHRIST himself hath not erected? Is not this to accuse CHRIST of treason, because he saith he is a King? And his servants of sedition, because they set up his kingdom without the licence, and against the will of Princes, though it cost them their lives for the same? Is not this man a faithful servant of CHRIST, a faithful subject to his Prince that so reproacheth CHRIST'S heavenly kingdom, rejecteth his ordinances and commandments to make them depend upon the will of Princes, that so seduceth his Prince, and would draw her into battle against God almighty and his Church? Yea if to set up Christ's kingdom in a christian estate without the leave or licence of the Prince or state, be rebellion and disobedience, a derogation from their sacred power, an intrusion into their high office, how then will he excuse our Saviour CHRIST himself? who being borne in the flesh, but in th' estate of a subject and a private man (he neither being Minister of the Temple, nor magistrate in the common Wealth, and that in a godly state under faithful magistrates, as himself acknowledgeth) did notwithstanding by all means in devour to set up his kingdom, preached, baptised, called all men unto him, although the whole state and governors earnestly sorbad and resisted him. Those governors were to be obeyed, and he himself was obedient in all things, as became a true subject. If it be answered that he did it by the especial commission and commandment of God; We readily grant that a sufficient warrant unto him before God and men: as also unto all others that have the commandment of the same God for that they do. But what is this to our question? Whether the Church or such as have authority from God, aught to be stayed from doing the commandment of God, by the inhibition of a christian Prince or state? We grant it high sin and intolerable presumption for any that have not authority of God, to enterprise to do any thing in the Church, whether with or without their Prince's licence. But if it be unlawful for the Church, or such as have authority of God, without the licence of their christian Prince or governors, Then verily our Saviour & his Disciples offended herein, who stayed not to do the will of his heavenly Father for the threats & laying wait of the Rulers. Further, if it be unlawful & derogatory to a Christian Princes office & authority, for any to do Gods will in their callings, and for the Church to proceed in the practise of CHRIST'S Testament, though against his will, Then is it also unlawful under a heathen Prince. For the christian and heathen Princes have one and the same authority, office, duty, to see all things both in the Church and in the common Wealth done according to the will of God. There is the same reverence and obedience (though I say not the same bowels of love) due to the heathen, that is due to the christian Prince in regard of their office. The heathen Prince shall answer aswell as the christian for the neglect of their duty, for the abuse of their power and place. And thus also if Mr. G. doctrines be sound, the Apostles likewise sinned against the authority of Princes, in erecting CHRIST'S kingdom, and the Churches in proceeding to receive the same, and to do the will of God, without their Prince's licence, and notwithstanding their prohibition, Seing that the unbelieving Princes have the same place, office, and authority, and aught to have the same obediene in respect thereof, that christian Princes have, or ought have. And sure most devilish and detestable are these two published and generally received opinions of these contrary factions of our English Clergy men; The one giving out, that the form of ecclesiastical government prescribed in CHRIST'S Testament, practised by the Apostles and primitive Churches in the times of persecution, is not now necessary or tolerable under a Christian Prince. The other giving out, that those ordinances and that government which they acknowledge CHRIST to have instituted and prescribed to his Church unto the worlds end, may not now, under a christian Prince, be put in practise by the Church, if he forbidden the same, as they might, ought, and were under heathen Princes by the faithful in all ages. With the one of these blasphemous positions, the Prelates defend their outrageous government, and all their antichristian proceed. with the other, the tyme-seruers these counterfeit Reformistes, colour and defend their perfidy, not witnessing unto and practising the Gospel of Christ, and their servile subjection to the government of Antichrist. By which positions both sides most impiously abrogate the heavenly government and ordinances of Christ in his Church, and intolerably seduce and abuse that most blessed and comfortable ordinance of the christian Magistracy. Both of them hereby shut up the kingdom of heaven against all men, neither entering themselves nor suffering such as would, but holding the whole land under the enormous government of Antichrist in the wrath of God, whose judgement therefore sleepeth not.  
YEt remaineth an other dangerous error which Mr. G. hath picke● out of a certain answer made by me HENRY BARROWE to three great Bishops of this land &c. where being demanded whether the Queen may make laws for the Church which are not contrary to the word of God. I (seeing whereat they aimed: uzt: to maintain all these popish relics, devices, tromperies etc., wherewith their worship & Church is pestered) answered (as I remember) to this effect. That no Prince, neither all the men of the world, not the Church yt self, could make any laws for the Church, other than CHRIST hath left in his word: But I thought it the duty of every Prince (especially of every christian Prince) to inquire out & renew the laws of God, and to stir up all their subjects unto more diligent & careful keeping of the same. This answer Mr. G. after his accustomed manner pronownceth anabaptistical, de●ijng and cutting off a great part of the power God hath given unto Princes: and a great part of Discipline. Proof of these charges he maketh none, except we must take these two assertions in way of proof, until he bring better. The first is, that CHRIST hath given general laws or rules for matters of circumstance that be indifferent & variable in the particulars, and so to be altered and abolished, as the peace and edification of the Church shall require. And therefore that Princes with the Church are to ordain & to establish such orders by those general rules, as may afterward for just cause be altered. Mr. G. his antecedent here is so general & extendent, his conclusion so doubtful and indefinite, taking such room to himself in both to escape & evade, as except he draw nearer, and in his next book take the pains to set down what he meaneth in his proposition by [general laws & rules] and by [matters of circumstance] And in his conclusion, what kind of orders those [such orders] are the Prince should ordain & establish, he shallbe so far from distressing or convincing me, as I shall never perceive where he is, or where about he goeth. This when he shall do, than I shall know what to answer him. In the mean time I confess many things of circumstance as the time & place of assembling, what scriptures to read or to interpret, how long to continue in prayer or prophecy etc., to be left in liberty at the discretion of the Church, to be wisely used according to their present occasions, to edification, order, decency. Of these & sundry such like, the Lord in wisdom saw it not good to set down positive or permanent laws for all Churches and times: because the present estate and divers occasions of all Churches, yea of any one Church, are so divers & variable, that prescript definitive laws could not be set of such things in particular for the space of one month, without manifold inconveniences & great preiudize to the Church. Of such things then as the Lord for these wise ends & weighty causes hath left in the liberty & discretion of the Church to be used and ordered according to the present estate and occasions thereof etc., may man make no prescript positive laws in particular, to enjoin thereby this form, this time etc. upon all or upon any one Church, without restraining that, which God hath left at liberty; yea without controlling & contrarijng the wisdom of God (which no doubt is most excellently perfect even in the least things) and without many other grievous inconveniences & intolerable preiudize to the Church of God. Much better therefore should the Prince provide for the Church to see them duly to observe the laws that God hath given, and to use their liberty aright, Or where they transgress in either of these, to reprove or to correct accordingly, then to make and enjoin new laws of his own devising, so contrary to the liberty, yea even to that order & discipline CHRIST hath given: which cannot be joined unto, exercised, or preserved by any other laws than God hath made; as by due examination in particular of the least or best thing they thus devise and enjoin, will appear. CHRIST that great Architect of his house hath left us a most absolute & exact pattern of all things belonging thereunto. unto which no human devise can more be added or joined, than heaven & earth can be commingled. Wherefore we may by better right esteem Mr. G. a corrupter of CHRIST'S discipline, or rather a fordger of a new discipline, for making & bringing in new laws into the church other than God's laws, Then he may pronounce us deniers & cutters off of CHRIST'S discipline, for allowing and receiving no laws for any action in the Church, but God's laws.  
HIs other reason is this. Prince's ought to establish the whole christian religion, to punish idolaters, wicked despisers, heretics, schismatics, blasphemers &c. But this cannot be done but by laws made & established: Therefore Princes ought to make laws for the Church. And I in denijng this, deny a great part of that power, which God hath given unto Princes. His first proposition is no more than I have professed in mine answer. If he understand his second proposition of other laws than God hath made, I then deny it as most false & untrue. whereof until he make proof, he hath not obtained his purpose, nor convinced mine answer. And therefore till then must withdraw his triumphant conclusions. I hold that Gods true religion is only founded upon, and established by his own holy word & laws, and not upon or by man's laws: And that the Prince may aswell make a new religion, as new laws for religion. Further, as I hold in God's word sufficient rules & directions for all actions of the Church: So hold I in the same most just judgements & meet punishments to every transgression. So that the Prince can no way better advance & establish true religion then by, yea can no way establish by but it, the promulgation, and due execution of God's laws: calling all men of all degrees to the hearing & sincere practise thereof in their callings, and duly punishing all such as transgress the same after such order proclaimed & established. God hath incommended & enjoined the book of his law to all Princes, thereby the govern both the Church & common Wealth in all things, as we plentifully read Deut. 17. 18. 19 & 5. 32. & 29. 9 etc. and 4. 6. Ioshu. 1. 8. 1 Kings. 2. 3. 1 Chron. 28. and in sundry other places. The King is not made the Lord, but the Minister of God's law, to which he is bound, and for the transgression thereof shall answer unto God, as any other person. He is placed in the seat of God, and the word of God committed unto him, not to alter or neglect the least part thereof, Not to make new laws, but to keep & see observed those laws which God hath made. Great then is their ignorance that think not that God hath given sufficient instruction & direction in his holy word for all actions of his Church. And greater their wickedness that knowing this, dare give mortal men leave to make laws for God's Church. If they say that the Prince's law must be consonant to God's law, Then I answer they have warrant & groundwork in God's word. which if they have, then are they Gods & not man's law: For God's law extendeth as far as the equity of his law extendeth. But what laws soever have no warrant of groundwork in God's word, those cannot be said to be consonant to Gods will, because there we have the whole mind of CHRIST, and so are to be avoided as superfluous, burdenous, and contrary to God's word, how necessary or expedient soever they may seem to human wisdom.  
AND now let the christian reader judge what cause Mr. GIFFARD had to pronounce this mine answer to the bishops question Anabaptistical, when I therein acknowledged the whole law of God, the place, office, and whole power of Princes that God hath given them, all which the anabaptists utterly deny. Or with what conscience he hath charged us as seduced by Brownes writing, And to hold that Princes ought not to compel their Subjects to the true worship of God. Neither aught to reform the Church. All which slanders this my answer which he here endeavoureth to confute, refuteth to his face:  
FINIS.    

A BRIEF REFUTATION OF Mr. GEORGE GIFFARD HIS SUPPOSED CONSIMILItude between the Donatists and us, wherein is showed how his Arguments have been and may be by the Papists more justly retorted against himself and present estate of their Church.  
Mr. GIFFARD a man inexpert in discerning the times & seasons, having long skirmished with vain titles, and assuming the matter in question, undertaketh now to deface all Gods inviolable ordinances with a certain dialogue between Augustine and the Donatists, and to make CHRIST'S ordinances and our persons odious as he supposeth to all men thereby, to heal the wound of the Beast and daub up the whole rabble of the Romish ministery, laws, worship, government, which all men of any judgement know to be received from the Pope. He taketh upon him to compare us to the Donatists, and without considering the causes & persons from which and from whom they separated, as also the times and ages, He sclanderously wresteth some particular doctrines about separation, and we thereupon must needs be Donatists. But we have learned that we ought all to take heed to the most sure word of God, and that he that speaketh aught to speak as the words of God. and to this law and this testimony if any speak not, it is because there is no light in him. We refuse utterly to be drawn into this kind of fruitless strife, and will not intermeddle either with the Donatists not Augustine's persons, nor yet with their causes or manner of pleading them; but only show in a few brief notes how unjustly this godless quarrellous man hath dealt herein, even in the things he hath set down, leaving the better view thereof to such as will bestow their tirne that way, and those to due consideration, and unpartial trial by the word and spirit of God.  
AT his first entrance into his discourse, he denieth us to be Christians, saying, all that are gathered by CHRIST'S doctrine only unto Christ alone as it is written one is your Doctor, even CHRIST, Math. 23. are only by his title called Christians. But we are wicked schismatics, therefore we must be called by the first Authors or chief maintainers thereof. To which we answer that Mr. Giffard & his Collegiates have given out for undoubted doctrines, that such as hold the fundamental doctrines of justification by faith in Chr●st alone, are to be holden Christians; and to clear ourselves a little further, we seek to be gathered and ruled by Christ's doctrine only, and by Christ alone as our King, Priest and Prophet, yea therefore we suffer, because we will not deny this faith. But by his own argument he hath turned himself and their whole Church and Priesthood out of the fold, whiles they are not gathered unto CHRIST alone by his doctrine only, but maintain Antichrist's laws & orders; his servants they are to whom they give themselves to obey.  
To prove his former reason, he aledgeth the custom of the old time in God's Church and the scripture yt self Revel. 2. where the Nicolaitanes are mentioned, Arians of Arius, montanists of Montanus, novatians of Novatus, Pelagians of Pelagius, Donatists of Donatus. The doctrine we do grant, that wicked Heretics & Schismatics may justly be named of the authors and leaders; But heresy and schism we deny to be maintained by us: And you having never convinced us of heresy, neither can prove your Church to be the true apparent established Church of Christ, must give account for your malicious slandering of us, and numbering us among such hateful heretics as the Arians etc. If we be Christians, then must you give account for this offence, which is not only done to us, but to his truth and to himself. You affirm in an other place that you had rather give account for to much charity showed to the wicked, yea for iustifijng an evil man, then for condemning the just, being iguorant that the woe is pronounced against both. But here you have forgotten yourself herein, and by slandering the truth you know what danger you incur Luke. 17. 1. 2. Math. 18. 7.  
He draweth the original of Brownisme (as he termeth it) from Donatus, and saith Browne was the chief renewer thereof, yet afterward saith there was a Church of them eighteen years ago in London, wherein one Bolton was a chief doer, whose fearful end is not forgotten. For the original of our profession we fetch it from Christ and his Apostles & practise of the Church in the Apostles time, as all the Martyrs from time to time have done, according to the light they saw. For Donatus and Browne they must answer for themselves. We are built upon the foundation of the Apostles & prophets JESUS CHRIST being the chief corner stone; Other foundation than this can no man lay; we offer our works to be tried hereby. It is Mr. Giffard himself that so well may remember the fearful end of Bolton, for it is true that (as I have heard) he stood against your ministery for caps, Surplus, Cross, with many other your Romish trynckets, as I have heard yourself have done; after revolting and become a conformable member of your Church, hanging himself, it is a remembrance for Apostates. Donatisme (saith he) in old time about twelve hundredth years past was condemned, as approved detestable schism & heresy: The Brownistes and Donatists shall appear to agree together as two pieces of cloth that are of the same will, same thread, colour, working, and breadth. If this man had read with judgement the holy scripture as concerning the general defection & Apostasy, with the increase & decrease of Antichrist's kingdom, he would have blushed to have entered this comparison. For the Donatists we have not to deal, yet if the right eye were not blinded, he might have considered better the Donatists causes of separation and ours, and it would not have seemed so like together: the times, causes, persons from whom and manner of their separation must be better weighed, which because he hath taken in hand to perticulate afterward, I will only show one here wherein we make such a difference, as all his other are but trifles. The Donatists held still the same worship, government, offices, officers, entrance, and the same administration of sacraments etc., that the other did from whom they did separate, and as it seemeth received whole Cities and countries to be the Church as before; so that their separation was more like the sects and schisms amongst yourselves; you from the Papists, the Martinistes from you, the forward Predicants (as they are called) from the Bishops, than any such separation as we by the commandment of God make from false Church, false ministery, false Sacraments, Antichristian government etc., unto the true ordinances of Christ: Heretics and Sectaries make schism; but this true conversion from the evil to the good, from the false to the true few, find it; although it be the plain commandment of God. reve. 18. 4. and the way to salvation Acts. ●. 40. For indeed it is not enough to forsake the false ways, but to seek the ancient ways of the Lord, and to walk in them, that we may find rest to our souls. Mr. Giffard his setting down of the causes of the Donatists separation, bewrayeth himself to seek only the defamation of the truth, without show of reason. First he saith that in the persecutions by the Romish Emperors many being (as they were then termed) proditors and traditors of the Books of God, the holy vessels their brethren etc., there was a rumour that such offences had b●ne committed by some. Now (saith he) there came certain Bishops from Numidia to Carthage a famous City in Africa to ordain a Bishop, and found Cecilianus already ordained and placed in the seat etc. Thus far I trust it will be granted me his pieces of cloth are not both of a will; for the difference, I refer to the obstinate & heinous transgressions wherewith we have charged these parish assemblies. Further the Brownistes (as he in the spirit of blasphemy termeth them) approve of no such Bishop or bishoprics, no such seat nor ordination as they came about.  
Well, the Bishops of Numidia were wroth that they could not ordain. In this point his threads are not proportionable. We thrust not our ●elues beyond our line in these actions, neither do any thing in the high matters of God through ambition: These things are all found amongst yourselves, the kingdom through envy divided; for all your chiefest strife hath been, whither a Synod of parish Priests, or a Lord Bishop should create your Priests: this being your principal contention, the one side must needs be Donatists. He proceedeth and saith, these Bishops of Numidia joined together, and laid a crime upon ●●●cilianus; they say his Ordeyner delivered the holy books & was a Traditor; whereupon they would have Caecilianus reputed no Minister of CHRIST, but the son of a traditor. In this Mr. Giff. discerneth not colours: The Brownistes separate not for any one man's person through envy, they show other causes why they repute your whole ministery to be a false and Antichristian ministery and not the true ministery of the Gospel; they allow not ordination by one man but prove the offices, entrance, and administration of your ministery to be wholly Antichristian; and hereupon we repute them no true ministery of Christ. For the trial of this matter (saith he) there was no assembly of learned Pastors to judge in this case according to Christ's ordinance, but furor, dolus, tumultus did bear the sway. Here Mr. Giffard saith it is Christ's ordinance that an holy assembly should judge in such cases. How will this agree with the office of your Archbishop. Further (as a man ignorant in the scriptures, he would have the people excluded in their Synods. The holy Ghost setteth before us another order. Acts. 15. And for a christian trial of our cause, we have every way sought it by supplication and all manner of ways, but could never obtain it: But your whole brood have not only refused it, and showed all exquisite tyranny upon our bodies so far as they had power, by close imprisonment, rending us from our trades and families, and all ordinary means of livehood, but set their Priests everywhere to cry out in their pulpits, giving out lies and slanders openly & secretly, in Articles, in printed Books, in private complaints and false suggestions, wherein Mr. Giffard hath not been behind, yet never vouchsafed us free conference, nor have or can convince us of crime or error maintained by us. In whom then is this furor, dolus, tumultus now found, but in these godless Priests, that cannot abide the light, because their works are evil.  
HE proceedeth now to show what trials were granted the Donatists before the Emperor, and by his appointment. Wherein there will be found little consimilitude between our estate and theirs: for these Antichristan Bishops usurp such power, as the magistrate may not call their actions into question, shutting up the benefit of the common law against us, suffering no jury to pass upon those they murder in prison▪ nor no bail for any they commit. I meru●l you could set forth these trials allowed the Donatists without blushinng, and make such havoc amongst God's children now without any trial granted them.  
Further it is rehearsed how these men the Numidian bishops and their company condemned all Churches through the world, as wrapped together in the guyltines of those Churches of Africa, all polluted, all unclean, all fallen from the Covenant of God through such as had committed sacrilege and were not separated: They said there was no true ministery, no true Church, no true sacraments. To which we answer, that we are not to plead the Donatists cause; but setting their persons and causes aside, I trust it will be granted me, that the defection & Apostasy under Antichrist was general, in which defection you will still remain in obstinate confusion not only retaining that ministery, worship, laws, offices etc., but rejecting Christ's prescribed and for ever commanded in his Testament; which your ministery, laws, worship & government we are able to prone false & Antichristian: So that there is no consimilitude in the Donatists separation and ours in this point; their matter being about sins committed in the Church, where there was lawful office, worship, government as they did not deny; and our cause being about the not having of a Church gathered unto CHRIST from the Apostasy, from all them that remain under that Apostatical ministery, government, and worship, and in that confusion we have warrant to separate Revel 18. 3. 4.  
Now to the point: These Numidian Bishops taught, that so many as would save their souls, must separate themselves. Mr. GIFFARD will grant I doubt not, that if there were no true Church, true ministery, nor no true sacraments, it was time to come out from amongst them, and have no communion with the tables of Devils, as the Apostle reasoneth 1 corinth. 10. If the Donatists separated from the true Church, we do not so; but we separate according to God's commandment from the false Church, false ministery, worship, and Sacraments. Prove your Church therefore a true Church, or our separation is just and holy, and the only way to salvation. In the mean time let the Papist reason thus with you: You separate from our Church, therefore you are Schismatics, Donatists, Heretics. If Mr. GIFFARD say no we hold you the true Church, to have the seals of the Covenant, to hold many doctrines of faith, to be the Temple of God, than we may lawfully hold you still Daughters of that damnable harlot, murderess of the Saints so often accursed, in whose cup of fornication you are dru●ken. If he say separation from the false Church is a commandment of God, and that they have made a kind of separation, than all are not Donatists that make a separation, but the cause must be considered from whom, for which, in what manner, and to what we separate or join.  
Where he allegeth that Augustine thought it an unequal thing to condemn as they did at the first all the world for one man's sin; namely, for the sin of this Caecilianus, and they thereupon took on hand to affirm, that as the Church of Carthage and the Churches elsewhere in Africa were fallen from God by the pollution of the sacrilege of Caecilianus and others, so all other Churches in the world were destroyed by the like sacrileges committed in the days of persecution. There is little consimilitude between the Donatists and us therein: For we separated not at the first for one man's sin, neither do since condemn the Churches we know not▪ but for the whole ministery of CHRIST'S Testament, worship, laws and ordinances▪ which you reject, deface, and pervert, standing subject unto & administering in the Apostatical orders and offices of Antichrist, do we separate. But to answer your particulars as you have filled the print with railing, lying, and vnfrui●tfull and impertinent matters, were but to trouble the Reader and maintain strife. You bring a story of their comparison between Caecilianus & judas-iscariot whether should be greater sinner, a repetition of calvin's Institutions, histories out of Augustine, Tertu●lan etc.▪ which your labour, as yttendeth but to a shadow of defence of your railing, so I will leave their writings and you to the judgement seat of God, where every one must answer for himself, and briefly proceed to your particular accusations falsely fathered upon us most of them.  
THus we see (saith he) that the Donatists departed disorderly out of the Church, not condemning it for any point of doctrine, for therein they did not disagree. Herein than we cannot be compared, till you have proved your parish assemblies the true Church; and we hold that you have poisoned all the fountains of sincere doctrine, and pervert the whole Testament, and turn away the practise thereof by your damnable false expositions, yea that you teach not one point sincerely. Again, where you say afterward that you will affirm the worship in the Churches from which the Donatists separated as corrupt as yours, and here say they agreed in all points of doctrine, we wonder what your make your worship to be some things indifferent, as reading for prayer men's writings, for scriptures homilies for interpretation, but no doctrine contained in your worship.  
And where you affirm that the Donatists cried out all was polluted, because such as revolted from the faith in time of persecution▪ returned, and were again reco●●ed into the Church. you know we hold no such doctrine, but all that God giveth grace to return by repentance ought to be received, though no Apostate ●uer to bear office in the Church: yet such we take to be wholly purged in the blood of CHRIST by repentance, which your parish assemblies never did. But this (setting their persons aside) we take to be an undoubted truth of God, that where no separation is made from Idolatrous profane Atheists, Heretics, tyrannical persecutors, nor no covenant entered by the faithful unto the obedience and orderly practise of CHRIST'S ordinances, but a general commixture with the world in sacrilege, in false worship, under a false ministery, such assemblies are no true Churches orderly gathered or established.  
Now look saith he upon the Donatists of England. Antichrist hath been exalted according to the prophesy of Paul; he hath sat in the Temple of God etc. This man by his whole former discourse & present Argument (it seemeth) herein chief compareth us to the Donatists, that as they made all their quarrel for Caecilianus his unmeetnes for his office; so we make our quarrel for that Antichrist reigned, or doth reign (as h● after expoundeth it) in the Church of God: wherein he affirmeth, that they which submitted or stand still in subjection unto his decrees, jurisdiction, ordinances, ministery, are yet notwithstanding the true apparent Church of God. First we answer, that we take not the word [Antichrist] to be understood of one man's pe●son, but of all the falsely called Fathers of the Sea of ROME, and more generally of all that exalt themselves above the ordinances of CHRIST and his Church, establishing their own devices in place thereof, or give life unto the image of the Beast; for if the same marks of pride, blasphemy and tyranny, erection of a strange ministery, lifting up themselves above CHRIST'S Testament, ordinances, and worship, be sound amongst your spiritual Lords in England, we see not but Antichrist spoken of by Paul may be also found amongst you. Now if Mr. GIFFARD had considered Caecilianus his estate (who at the hardest was but uncapable of that lawful office, and to that lawful administration, as it was on both sides supposed, and concerning the outward order or manner lawfully ordained) there can be no comparison between him and Antichrist. And for Antichrist's sitting in the Temple of God, Mr. GIFFARD must know, that many times the Church is called the Church, not because it remaineth still under the outward covenant, but because it sometimes did so: yea and at the first creeping up of that man of sin, while the iniquity wrought in a mystery, it was the Church out of which he sprang, and in which he sometimes sat. The holy Ghost giveth us then hereby to understand, that this Antichrist who should change the holy ordinances, should be an Apostata, he should be neither Turk nor Pagan, but the bottomless pit should be opened by him in more subtle and strange delusions; out of which smoke all your ministery is proceeded. But when he had changed the ordinances, destroyed every green thing, caused all high and low, rich and poor to receive his mark in their hand or forehead, and suffered none to buy and sell which would not fall down and worship him, the sun now covered with sackcloth, the Moon turned into blood, the stars fallen from heaven, the true worshippers murdered if any one stood up, God's curses threatened to all that worshipped the Beast or his image, or received his mark in their hand or forehead; we hope this man will not say it was now the apparent Church of God, lest he condemn not only the scriptures, but all whom God commanded to come out of her, calling her the mother of fornications, the harlot that sitteth upon many waters, hold of all unclean spirits, cage of all unclean and hateful birds, confused Babel etc. So that if Mr. GIFFARD had any salt of grace, he would better peruse the book of Revelations, which with all the prophecies of the Prophets, of CHRIST himself, and of his Apostles, make manifest this general Apostasy and defection under Antichrist, and not now tell us a tale of Caecilianus. Doth he not see in the whole Book the false Church & true lively described? the one worshipping the Beast, the other following the Lamb; the one persecuted, the other persecuting in most bloody murder of the Saints.  
Well (saith he) but Antichrist is disclosed by the glorious light of the Gospel, his damnable doctrine, cursed idolatry, and usurped tyranny, are cast forth of this land, the true doctrine of faith is published etc. First we must here demand, whether these assemblies were then the true Church when they were led by those damnable doctrines, and lived in that cursed idolatry, bowing down to the Beast, and persecuting the Saints. Secondly, as we are not unthankful for the abandoning of the POPE'S person, supremacy, with much of his damnable wares, we demand of you what you think of those persons which set open his shops again, keep his Courts, and exercise like usurped power and tyranny that was before. But to answer directly, Antichrist is not discovered in your assemblies, his damnable doctrines, cursed idolatries, usurped tyranny, are not cast forth, the doctrine of faith is not sincerely published. Again, what is all this to the proving of a true Church, a lawful ministery, true worship, and holy government of CHRIST. Your parish assemblies were received from the Pope's hand, without any conversion by repentance or orderly gathering by doctrine into any communion, the Pope's ministery set over them, the worship, though a little changed out of latin into english, some of theirs left out, but all that remaineth either taken from his Portesse or men's devices, these assemblies still governed by those Courts, Officers and Canons, that before. What place hath now Christ's Testament amongst you? how is Antichrist discovered, or his damnable wares cast forth? Is it not made subject to these Antichristian ordinances, ministery, worship, government? It is not limited, stinted, and aportioned, no further to be opened then to uphold these execrable orders, idolatries, sacrileges? yea is not only the bare name thereof used as a stolen, and doctrine thereof perverted to the deceiving of the people in this estate? Moses law was read every Sabbath day in their Synagogs', when they crucified CHRIST: But you should have proved you had such assemblies, such a ministeri, such a worship, such a government, as the Gospel prescribeth. Being then the same assemblies, continuing in false worship under the same ministery, government, all the Atheists, Papists, Heretics, Antichristian officers etc., in one commixture that the POPE left, we may well affirm you to remain still the marked servants of Antichrist, not speaking here how many Antichrist's are here exalted: leaving the damnable doctrines, cursed idolatry, false preaching of the Gospel, to our lardger discourse in due place.  
But now Mr. GIFFARD beholding these things, that they have made no separation, nor drawn the people unto the ordinances of the Gospel, is compelled to run back again to justify the Church of ROME, and to maintain that these assemblies were the true Churches of Christ in the deepest defection under Antichrist: The Apostasy having invaded the Church, it continued even then the Temple of God in which Antichrist did sit, and that the very idolaters were sealed with the seal of Baptism, professed CHRIST in some points rightly, their children from ancient descent within the Covenant, the ministeri so far remaining as it was the authentic seal delivered by them; the Brownistes not understanding the scripture, thus in mad fury like blind hypocrites condemn etc. Let us reason a little more coolly, rage will not serve to carry the matter. We will here take it granted that your parishes, ministery etc. cannot now be proved the Church and ministery of Christ, except they were so in the time of popery. We see further how well the Gospel is opened or Antichrist discovered with you, when such a famous Prophet hath not learned to read the mystery writté in that Woman's forehead, which the holy Ghost recordeth to be this [grea●e Babylon the Mother of whoredoms and abominations of the earth] Revel. 17. Again, the scripture saith Cap. 14. If any man worship the Beast & his image, and receive a mark in his forehead or on his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God. Who will Mr. Giffard make this Woman, if not the Church of Rome sitting upon the people, tongues, and nations that were seduced or are seduced in this Apostasy. And how hath he read the scriptures that saith, the seals of the Covenant belong to open blasphemous idolaters & their seed? God saith, he will punish the transgression unto the third and fourth generation: He saith nay, though they be the children of idolaters and continue in their Father's steps, they ought to have the seals of the Covenant. Again, if he say the seal of Baptism in the false Church belongeth unto that adulterous seed, how will he deny that blasphemous sacrifice and bread God, against which so many witnesses have given their lives, which is plainly denijng of Christ to be come in the flesh, and imagining him a fantastical body to be in every place▪ How can Mr. Giffard yield them one Sacrament, and not the other? Further, how ignorantly he speaketh of the Covenant, and of a Sacrament made by that ministery, it were too long to discuss. Well, in all this he hath forgotten his comparison between the Donatists and us; they had no such controversy with Caecilianus: but now peruse one of Mr. Giffards'. The Church of papacy in the deepest defection was the visible Temple of God, having the true seals of the Covenant. I then reason thus: The Church of of Ge●eua, Scotland, low countries, France etc. have separated from the Church of Rome which is the apparent Church of God, (for none have the true ministery & the true authentic seals of the Covenant, but the true Church) Therefore they are Schismatics, Donatists, Brownists, Heretics. Again Geneva, Scotland etc., condemn the Church of Rome by separating from it; therefore they do also condemn the Church of England, which approveth of and communicateth with the Papists. Moreover how will he answer this: Her Matie. hath expelled the Pope, his ministery, his doctrine, and idolatrous worship; therefore she hath expelled the ministery and worship of the true Church: And what followeth by Mr. Giffard his collections think you? they that reject the ministery of Christ, reject Christ himself.  
But these Brownis●es condemn the reformation by Magistrates etc. No, it is a false slander: We only put difference between the reformation by the Magistrate's sword, and the reformation by doctrine; and he is a false Prophet that either goeth about to set these at variance, or confoundeth them. The Magistrate suppresseth the evil within the Church & without the Church in their Dominions by bodily punishments in equity, and defendeth the godly. The ministery of the word gather●th, guideth, ordereth etc., a people unto and under the true ordinances of Christ, by the Word and Spirit: The Prince may and ought suppress all false worship, false ministery, idolatrous assemblies; and proclaim and command true worship, orderly assemblies, true ministery etc. But the workmanship hereof is spiritual, by doctrine etc., to be accomplished in due order according to the rule of the word. Still we urge you therefore to show us this gathering, ordering, and governing of a true Church in these parish assemblies, by the word of God. In the mean time you bestow but your oil, meal, and your whole ministery and guystes to daub up Idolatry, confusion, sacrilegde. Neither doth the word [reformation] agree to your Church, for cursed is he that buildeth the walls of jericho, not one stone of Babel will serve for a foundation.  
What comparison is there then between your reformation, and the reformation by Ios●as; show the particulars, we will answer: else it shall suffice that he sacrificed the Priests of BAAL upon the Altar, reduced the people to the true ministery and ordinances of the Temple; If the Priests did not this according to God's word, than they were guilty, and to be punashed by his sword. So that these false Prophets, Enchanters, sergeant time-servers (which extol her Majesty's for having granted the freedom of the Gospel, true ministery, true worship, government etc., and yet themselves do mislead the people in a false way to perdition) shall not only lie open to the Magistrates sword when God shall put in their heart to execute his will, but answer before the Lord for all this confusion, sacrilege, Idolatry, and filthiness maintained by their deceitful tongues. I do not plead to have them put to death, because they never knew or professed the truth; but to have their false offices abolished, and they compelled to some lawful calling in the Church or common wealth, as they should be thereunto found meet, and be lawfully called.  
We are not deceived then in imagining that you would make us believe the Princes did compel them to be a Church which were no Church before, without any orderly gathering, guiding, and ordering of them by Christ's laws, worship, ministery, and ordinances; for we deny that your parish assemblies were in time of popery true Churches, or have now forsaken all false worship. Prove your asseitions, and what discipline belongeth to the false Church judge you.  

Of the pollution by communicating with open sinners.  
WHere he maketh the cause of our separation, and (as he calleth it) our accusing of these parish assemblies to be utterly fallen from the Covenant of God, to be for that they are polluted with communicating with open sinners, he mistaketh, and (I fear) purposely fal●ifieth our mind & writings; for we have added to this an obstinate & wilful retaining of all sorts of profane as members of your Church, giving them the Sacraments etc. But as I have done before so must you here take my answer, that we deny these parish assemblies to be true Churches, or to have any power or authority to cast our any according to Christ's ordinance; so that we cannot reason with you as to make the controversy of open sinners in the Church, but as a confused assembly, not being ever gathered unto Christ, or guided by his ordiances. We know that in the true Church are & shallbe open sinners, yet there are rules & laws by due censure to bring them to repentance, or else to cast them out if they remain obstinate in any open gross sin, of which things we will not enter into discourse with you, denijng you to have either true Church, or power to redress abuses in your parish assemblies.  
And where he demandeth what order of discipline we have observed in our separation; We have learned that no other censures belong unto the false Church, then pouring forth the vials into the air, waters, sun etc. For this we have the direction and commandment of God Revel. 16. & 18. 6. Again, where should we find your Synod of Pastors in the whole tail of the Dragon: you have no such order as you prate of unskilfully; your L. Archb. or Ordinatie can teach you otherwise then plead for Synods of Pastors. For any Christian or equal trial either in free conference by the Scriptures, or trial by the common law, we have upon the dispense of our lives long sued for it, and cannot obtain any as we have said, and find nothing but furor, dolus, tumulius amongst your brood.  
Now after his former discourse, he will from point to point prove us to agree with the Donatists. First (saith he) the Donatists did accuse and condemn the Church and ministery of the Churches most falsely. And I say (saith he) the Brownistes are as false accusers as they, and condemn as injustly in all crimes. Here are bold and sore charges; but Mr. Giffards'▪ bare word will not stand. The Donatists cause was not about the orderly gathering of a true Church, but for the casting out of the unworthy: not about the office, entrance, or administration of the ministery, but about the sins of such as were in that office: So that if Mr. Giffard would look again of the cause, he should find no cause to keep this stir as upon a stage to no end or edifijng. We have often told him in our former writings, that our matter is not about offenders in the Church, but about the being or not being a Church. In the mean time he handsomely layeth upon their own filthiness saying companies and swarms of drunkards, gluttons, whoremasters, covetous worldlings, greedy usurers, extortioners, oppressors, bribers, defrauders, liars, backbiters and slanderers, envious hateful and contentious persons, swearers and cursers are suffered and admitted to the Lords Table; this saith he in many or in most of their parish assemblies, And many of their ministeri such. Where admit them a Church in his own conceit, let him add now this more which is as true; that they have no power to redress these evils by due censure, for that they thus continue after they have been long & often reproved for this sacrilege, and we are bold to pronounce the Priest as the people, a den of theives, a cage of unclean spirits, as the harlot that receiveth all comers, cast together into jesabels' bed.  
He further confesseth that the threatenings of the Prophets against Israel are due unto them; Whereby he confesseth these assemblies not to be the Churches of God: For all the Prophets that prophesied against Israel in the defection, pronounce her not to be the Church of God; read Hosea. 1. &. 2. jeremy. 3. Ezechiell. 23. But saith he, might not the Donatists have pleaded that there were many wicked people & wicked Ministers in those Churches from which they separated. We answer, that is not question; For first we deny you to have any Church orderly gathered unto the ordinances, worship, government of CHRIST, which they did not: And again we have not to reason what they might have excepted against those assemblies or ministers, but what they made the cause of their separation; wherein you trouble but yourself, and with odious names deceive the ignorant, to make any show of agreement between our cause and theirs.  
It will be demanded (saith he) whither Cyprian & the rest of the godly did worship together with those open sinners in their days, joining with them in prayer and in the sacraments etc. No, the question shallbe Mr. Giffard, Whether if they did communicate with the open transgressions of the law in their time, they did well and lawfully therein, or no; for I trust you will grant that the Church hath always power to cast out the obstinate offenders; read then the ● of the 1 to the Corinth. a little more considerately, and tell us whether they faulted not in keeping in their fellowship the incestuous person, and for not purging out the leaven from amongst them; for what saith the text, Now I writ unto you that you company not together; If any that is called a brother be a fornicator, or an Idolater, or railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner, with such an one eat not. Where the words me synanamignysthai be not together commingled; and after, with such an one eat not showeth a plain inhibition of communicating with the open profane or impenitent offenders: For where is this commixture or commixion, if not in that holy banquet and conjunction in the communion and supper of the Lord: and if Mr. Giffard could discern the spiritual things, he might see the outward signs of bread and wine to be tokens not only of our union with Christ and benefit of his death, but also of our communion with the members of his body spiritually; as the holy Ghost reasoneth saijng, The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of CHRIST, and the bread which we break, is it not the commanion of the body of CHRIST? for we that are many are one bread and one body, because 〈◊〉 are partakers of one bread: For us then to come together in this banquet and spiritual rejoicing with the members of CHRIST (to our judgement) we have true comfort one with another: But with the open profane or obstinate open known transgressor there can be no good rejoicing, fellowship, or communion: for besides the wicked Priest that presumptuously blesseth where God curseth, and committeth sacrilege in delivering the sign of God's Covenant with his people in CHRIST, to the treaders under their feet of his body and blood; so the whole Congregation, and every one that participateth with those open wicked, transgress (in not admonishing & casting out the leaven) against so many rules as command admonition & excommunication by due order, and partake with the wicked against God by their rejoicing with them as brethren. But (as I have still pleaded with you) we know better order then blind separation in pride, for the sins committed in the Church; denijng to reason with you what is to be done in the Church, till you have proved your Church to be a true Church established, guided by the officers and laws of CHRIST; so that all your matter is but the fight with your own shadow, and flying the question in hand.  
But my purpose is not to follow your gameplay either to justify the Donatists, or those learned Pastors, neither to reject the truths, nor maintain the errors of either of both sides; we have a better foundation to build upon, and a surer word to trust unto; it is because you have no furniture on yourself that you set forth this show, and fight under other men's names; Your savour is lost if ever you had salt: Look on one of your Arguments how well it will prove your matter. The Brownistes use 5. or 6. places of scripture which the Donatists used; therefore the Brownistes be Donatists. Let the Brownistes answer for themselves; but sure I must deny both Proposition and Consequence: For neither do we agree in the application of these, with them; neither do we allege all the same places because we allege some which they alleged for excommunication of the open known obstinate wicked in the Church, or separation from the false Church. Neither doth it follow that because we allege some places they did, that therefore we are Donatists. If you allow any separation from Turk or Pope, you must agree with Donatists in some of these scriptures. Esaias 52. 2 Corixth. 6. And in this your exquisite search you have had one place alleged yet now, which if you had well looked upon, you would have been ashamed to have compared us to the Donatists. It is written Revel. 18. 2. 3. 4. 5. verses etc., where your mother Church of ROME with all her Daughters is proclaimed no longer to be rested in, or communicated with. If your assemblies be such a cage, stand in such confusion, have the same ministery, laws, worship etc., than we must come out of her.  
Where in consideration that you would cunningly turn away all places that command a separation, by other men's expositions, and have not managed your cause in your own name, I will briefly demand whither you will maintain these doctrines or no: For the convincing whereof I shall either refer you to our handling of the 4. transgressions, or else gyne you answer when you deal particularly in your own name. First begin to set down under your own hand that these scriptures Come out from amongst them, Depart out of her, Separate yourselves etc., are not understood of a separation both of body and mind.  
Secondly, that the Minister being a swearer, drunkard, covetous worldling etc., he continuing obstinate in his sin, in that estate may be suffered to administer, and the godly may communicate with him in sacraments and prayer.  
Thirdly, that it is lawful for the Minister to deliver, the parties to receive, the people to communicate with open known unrepentant professed whoremasters & multitudes of wicked.  
Fourthly, that open sin may be tolerated in the assembly.  
Fiftly, that when open sinners be common, and such persons many, it were no safe to use the censures of the Church.  
Sixtly, that there may be a separating in heart, and coming out from them in mind, with whom we communicate in the Church.  
That there is no pollution, participation, or communicating with other men's sins, but either by doing the same evil, or consenting in heart to the evil; and though they remain in their open filthiness unrepentant, our communicating with them in the sacrament or prayer, or the priests delivery of the Sacrament unto them, is no rejoicing with them in their sin, no communicating with other men's sins, no allowance or consenting or approving of them in evil, nor no sin or transgression in us.  
That they which are the Temple of the living God, and in the midst of a crooked & perverse nation, apearing as lights in the world, having the word of life, nothing can infect them which they tollerat for unities sake, neither are they put up in any strait, because God dwelleth in them and walketh amongst them.  
That to separat from such a perverse and crooked generation were dangerous, lest we should separat in spiritual separation from the good, such separation were seditious.  
That David was not separat in body from the open wicked & unclean in the sacrifice, in his days.  
That Is●ias himself in one Congregation with them, did touch the uncleanness which he reproved in the people.  
That the Apostle Paul & the Church of Corinth did tolerate & communicate with such as committed fornication, though they repent not but continued in their sin after due admonition.  
That in policy for fear of schism excommunication may not be used against open obstinate sinners, but they may be tolerated & communicated with of the godly.  
That when he which for some notorious crime is reprehended hath the multitude his companion, it is not healthful to reprehend or excommunicate, but to tollerat.  
That the cause & person of the tars being understood of the open wicked and unrepentant, doth not prejudicate the cause and person of the wheat growing together in the field, and whither you will interpret this of the Church.  
That the cause & person of the chaff doth not preiudicat the cause and person of the corn being together in the same floor, until the last wynowing: the same of the goats & sheep in the pastures: the fishes good & bad in the net: the vessels of honour & dishonour.  
The causes & person of the chaff, bad fishes, goats, vessels of dishonour being understood of the open known wicked, whoremasters, murderers, heretics, idolaters etc., and the field, floor pastures, net, house etc., of the apparent Church, and make the inhibition of plucking up the tars a commandment, then is not only the censures of the Church, admonition, excommunication etc., but the use of the magistrates sword not only needless, but utterly unlawful to be exercised against any transgression. Let Mr. GIFFARD see how he is plunged in Anabaptistry, Atheism, and blasphemous contradiction of the whole revealed will of God for the cutting down of sin. But let Mr. give. or his Ordinary in their own name subscribe these foresaid Positions, and he shall hear our answer: We will not confute them in the persons of dead men.  
We then conclude this point thus; that Mr. GIFFARD hath ignorantly skambled about the sins arising in the Church, and the order of reprehension, when all our question is of a separation from a false Church, consisting of the world, of Athiestes', Papists, heretics, and all sorts of profane not gathered unto CHRIST: So that he hath but fought with his own shadow in comparing us to the Donatists in this point. Again, all Augustine's reasons are against separtion in the Church, without discreet and orderly using of the power of CHRISTs by the censure of excommunication; whereas you all confess you have no discipline to execute, neither belong CHRIST'S ordinances to your Antichristian ministery & Babylonish assemblies, which we deny to hold the head CHRIST in this their subjection to Antichrist's ministery, ordinances, worship. It is but then your ignorance to make comparison between the Donatists and us.   

To the Worship.  
THat the Donatists did separat themselves from as corrupted a worship as the Brownistes do, Mr. GIFFARD will stand to affirm. Saith he there were prayers & oblations for the dead, then significative ceremonies, superstitious signing of themselves with the sign of the Cross etc. To which we answer, that Mr. GIFFARD affirmed in the 6. page of his book, that the Donatists departed disorderly out of the Church condemning it not for any point of doctrine, for therein the other Churches & they did agree. Now here he would make comparison between them & us, in disallowing the worship. But it seemeth Mr. GIFFARD holdeth not any doctrine to be contained in the worship, which indeed ought to contain nothing else, and sure it is a strange worship that is not grounded upon doctrine.  
The second thing in this place we will note, is, the time of these corruptions in the worship: namely as he reckoneth within two hundredth years after CHRIST. If their worship were then as corrupted as ours is now, we marvel how you will defend the platform of your Church government from that time that was so corrupt, calling yt the primitive Church. Your fellow Priests Arguments from the primitive Church (as thy falsely call those times) will be of small weight, if you make their worship as corrupt as this derived from Antichrist. In the 44 page he granteth as much of the government, that it was then thus corrupt, when our tyme-seruers will only cleave to that pattern, and neither he nor they to the Testament of CHRIST.  
Thirdly he hath forgotten his scope & Argument: He should by his promise have proved that the Donatists & we were of one judgement in this point; and that they made the false worship one principal cause of their separation, as we do: so that he hath forgotten himself in this place, as a man not knowing where to make show of something.  
Next, where Mr. GIFFARD grants that in those assemblies where the worship is idolatrous it is lawful to separat a man's self, he (contrary to those expositions of the 2 Corinth. 6. and other places to that effect) now granteth a separation in body and mind both. I will not rebuke him nor charge him of inconstancy, because I perceive him to contradict his holy Pastors of these times where he seethe them to err.  
But he by and by returneth to his vomit again thus: There are many & great corruptions in the worship before it come to that: where certain fundamental points of doctrine are holden, the worship cannot be idolatrous; but in the deepest defection in popery there were certain fundamental points holden (as he faith in an other place) whereby they were still in the Church and under the Conenant, therefore there is no idolatrous or blasphemous worship that may in the Papists Church be separated from. Mr. GIFFARD may be a good subject, but sure his grounds of doctrine are popish and pernicious. We here demand of Mr. give. whither such corruptions & errors as he speaketh of, might be of the godly that knew them such be offered up by themselves or communicated with in the Church.  
And Mr. give. must give us leave to say it cannot be their worship was so corrupt as yours, consisting of so many patched devices of your learned Popes so long hatched, and by so many heads as have out of that forge of Satan's minting house contrived it, even out of Antichrist's treasury of deceits. As for errors that have no good foundation, we may show him twenty for one. Hitherto then Mr. GIFFARD & his brethren that have separated from the Church of ROME as they would pretend, yet retaining still that worship, are brethren with the Donatists, as he pleaseth to deride that holy name of brethren.   

To the ministery.  
THe Donatists cried out that the Churches from which they separated had no true Ministers, but that they were all false Prophets, judasses, persecutors of the just, generations of vipers, because they said they had their ordination from them that were such. The Brownistes lift up their voices with all their might & call us Baalls Priests, the marked servants of Antichrist, false Prophets, seducers and such like, because (as they say) we are ordained by Antichristian Bishops, therefore we be Donatists. Mr. GIFF. his Argument is denied. jeremy, our Saviour Christ, and divers of the Prophets against Israel did in this manner pull off the visards of the false Prophets, disclosing their wickedness to the people; were they therefore, Donatists or schismatics? Calvine & all of you cry out against the Pope's ministery at ROME, are you therefore Donatists and schismatics? The matter than must be considered for which they so called them. The Donatists for no other cause, then for that some of them were ordained by judasses and traitors: the Brownistes, for that these are ordained by Antichristian bishops which exercise an other spiritual government than CHRIST'S. Wherein if you had eyes to see, there is no comparison between their cause & ours. First the person that did ordain sat● in a lawful office as the Donatists supposed; did also ordain (as they thought) in manner according to the rule of the word; the party that was ordained, meet for the ministery; the office to which he was called, lawful; the administration wherein he was to administer, holy and good for any thing they saw. The contrary of all which we find in your ministery, and the thing wherein you would have us likened together was never our reason, which is the wickedness of the man's person that doth of his sole authority ordain for many Churches, which we neither approve in the Donatists or you: Our exceptions in this case I say hath never been against the person of your Ordinary, although we might justly. Take next time your matter together, and look whose kingdom you administer in, what calling, office, liturgy, flock, and be ashamed of your comparison, by so much as your ministeri is more wicked. Again, you here put the cause of our casting of the Bishops & their train into the lake, to be, for that they exercise an other discipline than CHRIST'S, as though this were some small matter, which if you put the word government of the Church, you shall find it the denial of CHRIST to reign in his kingdom, a suppression of at his laws & ordinances, even the whole Testament, and erection and practising of an other. Let him that readeth consider what state all stand in that remain in this kingdom erected against Christ, and what ministery the seducers in this foreign priesthood exercise of God or of the Devil, for CHRIST hath but one ministery, one Gospel, one government over his Church.  
Now seeing there is no comparison between the Donatists cause & ours, I would (if he would forbear to conclude me a Donatist for this point) demand this question in their cause if their accusation had been true, Namely, whether one that hath professed the faith, and after so foully apostatat as to accuse his brethren, deny the faith, persecute the truth▪ he sometimes professed, may without repentance be received into the Church again. Then whether though he repent and be received, he be ever capable of the ministery or no. Then whether he alone may ordain an other Minister or no; if he do, whether the other be a lawful Minister or no. But in such cases in the Church I could like well to here some man to persuade to repentance, or to cast out the obstinate by due order; and neither Augustine nor Angel from heaven to plead for a toleration of open transgression; which pleading for sin maketh us suspect the matter very deeply, iustifijng neither.  
Their similitudes, the river from the fountain, the members, the head, the stock and the plant in their application we approve not, but hold the doctrine erroneous that they thought any thing could be ordained from the person of the man in that sort. But your descent from Antichrist and pedigree in that kingdom is an other thing, if you would please to conceive it; namely, that your office, names, livings, entrance, administration etc., is of the Pope & of Satan, and that when his kingdom shallbe abolished, your office, name, entrance, Vicarage, liturgy and all shallbe cast with the great millstone upon them with all such traffic into the bottom of the sea. Hereupon it is we say your descent is from the Pope within few degrees, being the children of these Antichristian Bishops, which are the creatures of the Pope, who is the eldest son of Satan, and his vicar general upon earth, whose image, mark, power and life you bear, and together with him live, reign, stand and fall as the branches with the tree; for when the power, decrees, government, offices, worship etc., of Antichrist is gone, all your ministery is vanished for ever. The Lord therefore put in her Majesty's heart to extirpate the same, and to advance CHRIST'S laws, ordinances, ministery, worship etc., as he is worthy, that every knee may bow unto him.  
But Mr. Giffard affirmeth we shall not be able to prove our accusation of their ministery, that it is by descent from Antichrist; his reason is, there is no Minister in England by the Pope etc. We shall not here need to seek out a Pope in England: If he will learn to distinguish between the Pope's person, and his decrees, Canons & orders after the Pope's orders of priesthood, he must be driven to confess their whole ministery, office, entrance etc., to be drawn by descent, and we think Mr. Giff. will not hang the life and virtue of holy things upon men's persons, but upon the ordinances of God, lest he be a Donatist.  
He further affirmeth the ministery of publishing the Gospel, delyvering the sacraments, is not the devise of man but Christ's ordinance. Do you think Mr. Giff. can beg the question to affirm a ministery whose office, entrance etc., is of Antichrist, doth publish the Gospel▪ Again, that they receive it as Christ's Ministry, when it is from point to point wholly found to be after the orders of Antichrist.  
And when no shift will help him out, he is feign to affirm valiantly, that the ministry was not utterly destroyed in popery, for there remained the Sacrament of Baptism. See here how he hath plunged himself into the sea of popery, and overtumbled the doctrines of his learned Fathers. T. Co. saith from Malachi, that the ministery is not tied to the succession of men's persons, but to the law & ordinances; and what ministry the Pope's is, read Revel. 9 etc. You charge her Majesty's very far, to have cast out the true ministeri out of the land for putting our Pope, Cardinal, shaven crowned Priest, Friar, Monk, Abbot. And if the Baptism could not be a true Sacrament without a lawful Minister, than your ministery being unlawful, there is no seal which promise, no true church etc.  
Seeing then the holy Ghost hath described that Church to be the Harlot sitting upon many waters, the mother of fornications, confused Babel, murderess of the Saints, an hold of unclean spirits, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird, neither ministery, Sacraments, worship, or any thing remaineth there according to God's ordinance; and at the best you make yourself & this whole land schismatics from the true Church, Ministeri, Sacraments, if it so stand with the Church of Rome & ministeri thereof, and of necessity you are all Donatists by your reasoning, though my purpose is not to defend and prove in this discourse, but to call a few notes to your memory: I will conclude this point, that you are driven to the Pope's ministery for your orders, now desiring you to satisfy us next time concerning the Pope's damnable mass or Sacrament of the Altar; if they be true Ministers, whether the Church can have one Sacrament good and in other evil, one with promise the other damnable, blasphemous, and accursed; for I take it they cannot be true Ministers at the Font, and sacriledgious massmongers at the Altar. Weigh these things more considerately, before you publish such doctrines in England again.   

To the Sacraments.  
THe Donatists did hold that the Sacraments or efficacy of them, depend upon the worthiness and holiness of the man that administereth: But the Brownistes are not of that mind. To this objection he very charitably answereth, that in this great rank point of donatism he can find no difference at all: Let the words and meaning of both be scanned, and it shall appear manifestly that they hold the self same thing, neither more nor less, but like even brethren, or else Mr. Giffard will be found a common liar and slanderer. This man may not be suspected of any malicious practice to deface the truth, yet is found to make his comparison by his false slanders, and not of any direct sentence of ours. What sin he is fallen into that so often dirideth the word brethren, let the godly consider.  
The Donatists held that if the man being a lawful Minister were a sinner, the Sacrament delivered by him was no true Sacrament: Mr. Giffard confesseth we hold no such thing; where is then the consimilitude.  
The Donatists held that the faith or conscience of the giver did give faith unto, purge & make clean the conscience of the receiver; and so of the contrary the guyltines: which doctrine we hold to be blasphemous; it is only the holy Ghost that worketh faith, and purgeth from an evil conscience.  
The Donatists held, that if he which did administer were an open sinner, he was no Minister, and so no Sacrament. We do not hold that every open sin maketh the Minister no Minister, seeing the high Priest many times sinned under the law, yet his office still retained: but we hold that the Minister ought to repent his sin before he administer, and the Church to admonish him of his known sin before they suffer him to administer, and not communicate with him if he be obstinate. If the Church neglect their duty, he and they transgress, yet do we not say that it is no Sacrament that he delivereth, or that his ministery is disannulled. But we must put Mr. Giffard in mind how far he is gone from our cause in this comparison. We never disallowed their Sacraments as being administered by a lawful Minister in a lawful office, yet the man a sinner. But of such counterfeits as have neither lawful office, entrance etc., but stand enchanters in Antichrist's kingdom: so that these are not the personal sins of a Minister in the Church; wherein Mr. Giff. wickedness appeareth to make the question of the man's person or his sin, when it is the ministry, office, entrance, administation, all which we hold to be Antichristian, and to have nothing to do with the seals of God's Covenant in this estate: not here to speak of the altering of the institution in the manner of administering it, which the Donatists never either had cause or made question of, as it seemeth.  
And whether any promise is made to the elements abused in the false, yea whether to the elements or to the keeping of the laws and ordinances in the true Church, let Mr. Giffard. make answer.  
Further, when we affirm the Sacraments of the false Church to be no true seals of the Covenant, because they are idolaters and Idolatrous, the lords ordinances profaned and laws wholly violated, we do not thereby conclude it to be no Baptism concerning the outward washing; for we can put difference between a false and none, a false Sacrament or counterfeit sign, and none, for the false Church is said to have her peace offerings. And although we hold them highly to tempt God to their own condemnation (if they repent not) that wittingly profane or of wilful ignorance transgress those high ordinances, as in the false Church to be superstitious of the element where the law and Covenant is broken, yet do we not thereupon affirm we need any reiterating of the outward sign, as the Donatists; but hold this false sign now a true sign, sufficient to us concerning the outward washing. Circumcision in the Apostasy of Israel which was without promise to the receivers in that estate, and nothing but sin in it, yet stood for a sufficient outward cutting when any of them returned to the Church and ate of the Passover, whereof it was not lawful for any uncircumcised to eat: how the sign might have been reiterated if need had so required, we may see by that of the Apostle 1 Cor. 7. for gathering again their circumcision if it might be gathered again, than secondly cut.  
Where Mr. Giffard then in stead of performing his comparison saith, that the Donatists in rebaptising did better of both, because he that is not baptized aught to be baptized &c. he bewrayeth his ignorance, that cannot put difference between a false Sacrament and none, a false sign and none: The grossness also he supposeth to have been in us, is found in himself, that lest he should make the false and counterfeit washing in the false church to be none, runneth to justify the Church, ministery, sacraments etc. at ROME, and so must conclude himself of necessity a Schismatic or a popish Priest, which he will.  
And where he demandeth whether he that knoweth he was never baptized can be saved if he seek not to be baptized when he may have it. We demand again how ever true baptism should be restored, if the false sign of baptism which was then without promise in the false Church, should not now be sufficient concerning the outward sign.   

To the Government.  
IN the principle of principles, that I say not the very sum of all causes of our separation from these assemblies, namely the government which Mr. GIFFARD termeth discipline, he can not find any consimilitude between the Donatists and us; for the confesseth he hath not read that they did take any exception against it in that tyme. Take your word discipline for all the means that CHRIST hath appointed by his laws, ministery & censures, to keep, guide & govern his Church, jointly and severally to be instructed in their duties, and see what a dilemma you are come unto, this being granted that herein there is no agreement, seeing the chief cause of our controversy with you is for the rabble of this Antichristian and pse●dohierarchie Courts, etc., which have no place in the Church of God, where CHRIST'S officers, offices, laws, censures, aught to govern and guide his Church.  
But here according to your accustomed manner you go about to say there were faults to be found in their government then, yea as well as in their worship etc., which you affirmed to be as corrupt as yours is now; wherein (if ante regard were to be had of your words) you would not only make those bishops in as evil state as these, that Church as yours now; but have cast into the fire all the platforms that your learned Reformistes have pleaded for, from that falsely so called primitive Church. Well, I have told you the question is not whether they had the true government or no, whether in that government there were corruptions, defaults or negligences, but whether the Donatists separated therefore or no; they had the same offices officers, laws, censures that the other, so that you speak not only false in saying they might have had as just cause in this respect of separation as we, but also bring the Argument to confound yourself with your whole Church wherein you stand a Priest. Thus you are separated from the Church of ROME, but retain still the same hierarchy, worship, government that they used and have, as the Do. of the Churches from which they separated; therefore you in this as in the rest of your Arguments conclude yourselves Donatists, Heretics, and schismatics from the Church of ROME.  
But Mr. GIFFARD will deny that the Donatists had as great cause to separate from those Churches from which they separated, as those English Priests from their Grandfather the Pope, for it was not so corrupted. The same we answer to you for your government, how then shall we end this matter? I take it, thus; that the Priests of England despise the Pope's person, and yet keep the same orders, laws, officers, offices that he erected: So the Donatists kept still the orders of government that the Churches they separated from. Now if we can clear ourselves that we retain not the same government amongst us that the Church doth we separat from (which I think cannot be denied) then Mr. give. hath in a chief principle put himself and this whole laud into the number of Donatists. The Argument is now this. The Church of England separateth from the Church of ROME, and yet keep their government & worship, therefore the Church of England are Schismamatickes and Donatists; and an other point, that there can be no true Sacraments, no true Church under a false government: And Mr. GIFFARD is yet further out of his way.   

To the Argument of many Churches.  
HE granting that we herein differ from the Donatists, in that they condemn all Churches in the world we do not, will needs notwithstanding have us Donatists in this point also: For (saith he) though they shoot not their arrows at them, yet their arrows strike them, their Arguments upon consequence will reach so far, yea run through the sides of all Churches. This we answer: you must first clear yourselves of those things wherewith you are charged and pressed, and trouble not yourself with other men's matters, seeing you make this but a cloak for your wickendnes to shroud yourself under other men's persons with whom we have not to deal. We utterly refuse to enter into this controversy of the estate of other countries: we know the word of God is near us (thanks be to God) by which if your cause be good, suffer it to be tried. As for the consequence of our Arguments they are but your own collections to pass over your own sins, and set the strife between us and other Churches, which we will not be drawn unto. And all men may here behold this sour of words and strife maker will counterfeit not only consequence, but Arguments of his own head, to raise quarrel: In all which he hath forgotten his promise to compare our writings and theirs together; and flieth to his own collection.  
In this part of his stage-play he beginneth thus. The Church of ENGLAND is esteemed & reverenced amongst the Churches as a sister, and so communicated with, yet they all know what her faults be in her assemblies, in her worship, in her ministery & government, in as much as they are apparent. Unto the first we suppose your worship, ministery, Church government, are not so apparent unto them as you give out. Secondly we doubt, yea I may say it is untrue, that they justify your ministery, worship, or government. Thirdly admit they should thus sin either of ignorance, negligence, or infirmity, standing otherwise orderly gathered to the practise of CHRIST'S ordinances, they are not for this sin (till after due convincement and admonition they remain obstinate) to be presently judged no Churches: But what I think of their estate, you shall here pardon me, I will not intermeddle till I be called.  
As for your harmony of Confessions, if it be not the harmony of the Prophets, CHRIST and his Apostles, it skilleth nothing us what consent you make. Again, it is not an accord in certain general Articles that can satisfy this matter, when in the particulars you descent to the overthrow of all: Such an harmony you may very well make with your mother Church of ROME, and a great deal more large: Neither do their Confessions agree with you in the estate of the ministeri, Church government, nor worship: Scotland, Geneva, France etc., have an other ministery, offices, choice, ordination and ministration, an other government, worship &c. but it were too large to discuss: And now hold to your Argument, and see what will follow. The Church of ROME have the same confession of faith, which you call your Apostolic Crede, that you have, yea the lords prayer, (as you call it) Athanasius Crede etc., therefore they and you agreeing in this harmony of confession, are one body one Church. Again these Churches you say hold you the Church of God, and you hold the Church of ROME to be the Church of God, therefore you are one body all, and then you & all the Church's schismatics from your mother Church.  
If the Church of ENGLAND be Antichristian & idolatrous, and worship the Beast etc., than the Churches which perfectly know the same and yet acknowledge her a sister, are partakers of her sin, and so to be condemned with her. The same Argument we thus return you.  
If the Church of ROME be Antichristian & idolatrous & worship the Beast, them the Church of ENGLAND which perfectly knoweth the same & yet acknowledgeth her a sister (as Mr. GIFFARD doth say) is partaker with her sins, and so to be condemned with her.  
All those Churches saith he which know the Church of ENGLAND in this estate & do yet reverence her as a true Church of CHRIST, do condemn those as heretical schismatics which call it Antichristian & separat themselves from it. We answer, that all those Churches he speaketh of do not approve the church of ENGLAND in this estate, neither condemn us in the things we withstand therein, and receive it again thus: At the first coming out of papacy all the Churches in the world did approve the Church of ROME, and condemn those as heretical schismatics which called it Antichristian & separated from it: Let Mr. Giffard put to what conclusion he wil I take it Mr. Giff. must now leave the bare title of Church, ministery etc., and flee to the proof of their profession & orderly walking, by the word of God; which if he do not, yet do we build thereupon as upon a most sure foundation.  
As to Mr. CALVINE, we refer you to his confession of faith printed in the latter end of his own Catechism, and if he be contrary to himself in his other writings, look you unto it; we do not for the holiness of the man justify any of his errors (as no man is without) neither for his errors reject any truth he held; knowing of the one God hath had mercy as we hope, and for the other God's word approveth it: so that we believe not any thing because such a man said so, but because by the word & Spirit we hear CHRIST himself speak. And you do greatly abuse his writings, in using them after your own ●ense in his name contrary to his mind and purpose, and by your leave wresting them to your own judgement, deceiving others thereby. In his confession he affirmeth there is no true Sacrament with promise (as I do remember) but where the Minister hath a lawful office and outward calling to administer; so that all his Arguments must be understood of such a Church as have a lawful ministery in office, entrance, and administration, and cannot be applied to yours. Moreover he reasoned against the anabaptists and such as held an integrity and perfection in the Church, and separated for every sin committed, without due seeking of redress. And if he erred in these or any other doctrines, we do not therefore hold them presently to be no Church in which he was Minister, or which did in like ignorance receive the said doctrines; it is obstinacy in error that only deserveth casting off, and that by due order. As for most of your places expounded by his mouth & now received by you to maintain open sin & to communicate with the open known transgressors, they are so common & stolen, that every infant in the faith can show you your vanity, if in your own name you durst propound them. Your learned brethren have given them over as slender collections, you will now revive them; put them in your own name, else we have nothing to say, the man being dead, whose steps God give you grace to follow in that which is good. But this is a simple course to justify your own ways by men's names and writings, when God's word convinceth you of sin and wickedness. For that place of the Epistle to the Corinth. 11. Let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread & drink of that cup, it doth not discharge us of any duty to others by admonition & due censure, for the same God hath said Admonish one another, tell thy Brother his fault, if he repent forgive him; go first● reconcile thyself to thy Brother, then bring thine offering: If any that is called a Brother be a fornicator etc., be not commingled together, with such an on● eat not: So that our examination must be whether we do follow these rules also; and Mr. CALVINE himself saith it is sacrilege for the Pastor to give the Sacrament to the open unworthy. What communion is there then between him that openly stands under the wrath of God the Minister that committeth sacrilege, and us in that banquet. We may better reason thus then: we are commanded to examine ourselves and so eat, therefore I must examine myself also with whom, what, and how I do come to receive. But what have we to do to reason what is to be done in the Church to the preventing of God's wrath and reproof of sin, when our question is of the utter forsaking of the false Church with all her wares and stolen waters. So that we conclude all Mr. Calvines' Arguments must be enforced against such as separate themselves from the true Church, otherwise himself and you all shall be found Schismatics from the Church of Rome. As for the Church of Corinth and Churches of ●alatia, they were separated from idolaters, orderly gathered, established and governed by CHRIST'S laws, true ministery, worship, and stood not obstinately to maintain and retain open gross sin, and to murder the messengers sent early and late to reprove them, as you do: So that there is no comparison to be made between you and them; for thus the Papist might plead with you. There were sins and corruptions in the Churches of Corinth and Galatia, but it was not lawful to separate from them, therefore it is not lawful to separate from the Church of Rome, wherein still you see yourselves concluded Schismatics & Donatists. But because we will not intermeddle with Calvine nor other Churches, Let us return again to your comparison between the Donatists & us, from which you are so far and so long digressed, as a man little regarding wherein he busieth himself.   

Concerning the Magistracy.  
IN this matter he first termeth us Donatists, for that we cry out of persecution, and of the false Prophets that incense the Magistrates hereunto. We answer, we complain not of impatiency nor yet for revenge: only (as duty bindeth us) we seek to the lawful Magistrates for some redress of our miseries which we wrongfully sustain, and show the people the ungodliness of their woeful guides, or rather wolves; and if you had any grace you would rather be moved with pity, then compare us to either schismatics or heretics for our just complaints. But herein our cause differeth from the Donatists, that we are persecuted by the Clergy, which is armed (according to the order of their bloody predecessors) with civil power together with their popish ecclesiastical jurisdiction both in one person, contrary to the law of God: which unlawful power they only usurp to keep CHRIST out of his office, suppressing his laws, offices, people, worship, with all force in all unmerciful cruelty, so far as their horns will reach pushing poor Israel. And howsoever her Matie and her honourable Council see not their wickedness, or suffer them and wink at their doings (which God grant it be not laid to their charged) yet we find this Antichristian prelacy both the false accusers, and hateful molestours of God's children; so that the persecution is chiefly by that brood: And whether haling unto, and shutting up in most strait close imprisonment till they have murdered them without trial whom they get into their claws, never losing their hold till either they die in prison or revolt from the truth, so that many are made to blaspheme & deny the holy ways of God though their merciless tyranny, whether this kind of tyrannising without any free conference or judicial proceeding, thus pulling the husband from the wife, Father from children, servant from master etc., all from their lawful callings & trades, be not barbarous persecution, let all men consider. If we deserve death let us die in due execution, if banishment banish us; but first by order convince us of some crime or error worthy thereof, if you will clear yourselves.  
Mr. Giffard after this Ismalitish derision of our persecution, proceedeth to accuse us of some doctrines derogatory to the Prince's authority. As first; that Princes may not make laws. 2. that we should hold the Prince ought not to reform the Church by their authority. 3. That none of the godly Kings of juda did compel any to the Covenant. 4. That the people of CHRIST'S kingdom be spoutanei etc. In all which, besides that there is no comparison between the Donatists and us in these points, he doth but follow the steps of that old perverter of the truth. We will then first show briefly how we hold this doctrine, and how far we are from that he would insinuate into the Magistrates ears, as though we sought to diminish their lawful jurisdiction, power, or rule. For laws making we hold, that Princes are limited by the law of God (as he himself in an other place confesseth) & ought not to proclaim any law that hath not warrant from God's law either in express words or necessary collection from general rules, still keeping within the equity. For reforming we hold, that the Prince ought to suppress all transgression of God's law, and punish all persons without partiality according to the offence within the Church or without the Church within their own dominions as well for the transgression of the first Table as the second, and to defend the observers thereof in all equity, and that whiles we walk in the ways of God we are not afraid of that power, but give God glory & them due obedience, whether they be of the Church or no. To the 4. we hold, that none can be received into the Church, but that willingly maketh public confession of his faith, for neither may the Church receive nor they be holden of the Church, without this repentance and confession. Yet we grant that the Prince may command and compel her subjects to the hearing of the public doctrine & prayer of the Church, but to enter Cou●n●t or be received a member it is to be done by doctrine, faith and repentance: Neither did the kings of juda compel the Priests to receive any uncircumcised or idolaters into the fellowship of the Church. Faith is the gift of God, wrought by his Spirit & word: The Prince may compel to the means thereunto, but not enforce faith.  
The Donatists resisted the Magistrate so far as they durst (saith he) and when julian the Apostata showed them favour, their circumcellions made revel in companies, walking with clubs & staves, did spoil & beat such as lighted in their hands etc.: The impatient hear of Brow●istes is not unknown etc. Let this lawless man show where ever any of us have resisted the Magistrate, or spoken evil of the ruler of the people, or gone about to revenge ourselves by any violence or unlawful means. As for his prophesy what we would be if we had power, it layeth open himself to be a malicious false Prophet to incitate the Magistrate with lying dreams. Let him better consider and he shall find that this Antichristian Prelacy hath been not only the procurers but shedders of much innocent blood, usurping civil power: And how they have behaved themselves towards their sovereign Kings & Princes, let the Records be searched; in your Church are found daily treasons, bloodshed etc., and most plentiful in your mother Church of Rome: This than is but the false report of Sanballat and Tobia to hinder God's Temple.  
Now admiring Mr. Giffards' clearing of the Donatists of error, affirming they differed not from the other Churches in doctrine, as also manifest or all least protest our innocency from these and all other errors in the particular course handled or else where to be found, I will set down three or four gross errors before him, which we detest in the Donatists; as:  
That he which or deigneth a Minister (as it seemeth they allowed ordination by one man) is the head of him ordained yea the fountain, and the other the river; therefore if the head be holy, the other is thereby made holy, and so on the contrary if the first be wicked.  
That the conscience of him that giveth, may wash the conscience of him that receiveth.  
That when he which baptizeth is manifest a good man, he giveth faith, he is the original, the root, the head of him that is by God's spirit renewed.  
That those which are baptized by a wicked man though in a lawful office, aught to be baptized again.  
That it is lawful in some respects to kill themselves.  
That the Magistrate cannot compel us to that which is good.  
That we have free will after regeneration. I will not now justify Mr. Giff. explaining of their minds, whether in these or any other we handled, I take all in this matter from his record, which I hope he will not affirm to be false.  
As for his learned Fathers how they have wrested the scriptures new Testament and old in more than twenty false expositions and flat contradictions of the scope of the whole Canon of the word, to justify open iniquity by slights, and tollerat it in the public assemblies with all their doctrines of separating in heart and not in body, at common meats and not at holy communion, that all nations should be the apparent Church etc., we leave them all, denying to enter controversy with dead men, wishing Mr. Giffard to spread such deceits in other men's names no more, but to come orderly to some christian trial by the Book of God. In the mean time he seethe we neither hold of Donatists nor of Augustine, but follow faith in a pure conscience to our knowledge, ready to be instructed wherein we err. And when he hath made such a large discourse to prove us anabaptists, montanists, Arians, Pelagians, Nicolaitans etc., we shall in stead of conflicting with a cannoneer of the air, and unconscionable slanderoous railer, demand the end and use of his labours, and now leave him to his account for his defacing and blaspheming of the truth, wishing all men to beware of such methods of imposture.  
I. G.  
FINIS.    

A FEW OBSERVATIONS OF Mr. GIFFARDS' LAST CAVILS ABOUT stinted read prayers, and devised Leitourgies.  
HAving heretofore written an answer to Mr. George Giffards' pretended defence of stinted read prayers & devised Leitourgies, and since received an empty reply, wherein he doth nothing less than yield to any sound reason alleged, but ungodly cavilleth at and perversely wresteth the sense of so much as he toucheth, I seeing no cause of further strife (his former convinced) to intermeddle again with particular handling of his chaff & smoke, his reasons in effect the same before answered, have only thought it my duty to illustrate unto the Readers, some few brief points abused by him, that they may the better be able to judge of the former writings, whereunto with these few helps following I refer the trial.  
WHEREAS I alleged out of the 8. to the Rom. and out of the 4. to the Galath. that in the very time & action of our prai●ng to God, the spirit of God was the only instructor and the only help, no other help mentioned or that can be collected in the Scriptures, Mr. GIFFARD having granted that reading prayer is not praying, doth now answer, that how soever the Scripture doth extol & magnify outward helps & means, yet when they are compared with God which worketh all in all by them, or when the scripture will set forth the efficacy & work to be his alone, they are either not mentioned, or else if they be mentioned, so cast down, as if they were nothing. God buildeth his Church (saith he) by the ministery of men, yet Paul is said to plant, Apollo's to water, but God to give the increase 1 Corinth. 3. and therefore to gather from those places Rom. 8. Galat. 4. that there need or may be no outward help or means in the very action and instant of praying, is far awry. In which answer it evidently appeareth he is so bend to turn away all truth & raise new strife, as there can be no expectation of agreement: There is no sequence, neither doth the Scripture alleged prove his own reason, so that nothing hangs together. No man doubteth but that sometimes and in some places of Scripture the outward means of begetting and increasing faith is only recited, and sometimes the secret work of God's spirit only, sometimes both, when yet they are not divided but go together, and all of God both inward work & outward means, though in way of comparison I never so read, but rather the one repeated for both: For shall I say, that when the word of God & preaching thereof is ●hewed to be the power of God unto salvation, that the inward work of the Spirit is therefore not mentioned, because the other is of God? than both inward & outward means being of God & Gods own work, though the one by instrument, that there is silencing of the one in way of comparison, is not true. But all this is nothing to our matter: He should plainly have affirmed, that from these places Rom. 8. & Gal. 4. it cannot be proved, that in the very instant time & action of hour praying to God, the spirit only instructeth, without outward helps of instruction; and he should have seen I could prove (as then I did) the contrary unto him Rom. 8. 26. The Spirit doth together supply or h●lp our infirmities, for we know not what to pray as we ought, but the the Spirit yt self maketh request for us with sighs and groans unutterable. In the action of praying the Spirit is here set down in this place to be the means and help of instruction, teaching us to ask aright, no other means or helps of instruction in that instant time and action of pra●jng mentioned in this or any other place of scripture: Therefore in the time of our praying and laying our hearts open to God, the Spirit only doth instruct and openeth our mouth. In this place let the word synantilambanetai be well considered. Again Galath. 4. 6. it is said because ye are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into your hearts crying, Abba, Father. The Argument here is the same that before: this word [crying] showeth the work of his Spirit or rather office, in our continual occasions of prayer to direct us to unburden & unfold the heart, so that in the instant action we see no other. And where I showed him that reading in the action of praying could not be called an help of instruction at that time when we were pouring forth our hearts unto God, the eyes and hands life up to heaven, our meditation fixed upon our known occasions, and heart & mouth unfolding them, my reason this, That the mind & body could not be intent upon two diverse distinct & several exercises & duties of mind & body at one time & instant, he inverteth my words, and stealeth them as a new shift to help himself (as he supposeth) returning them thus in way of question, demanding whether fasting, lifting up our eyes & hands to heaven, prostrating the body & kneeling be prayer yt self, or outward means & helps to make the prayer more ●ervent. Every simple man will laugh at him (saith he) if he make them prayer yt self; and if they be helps, than I have brought the former proofs not from an idle, but from an unsound brain. Leave scorning & reproach, and consider what helps we did all this time entreat of; was it not instruction of the mind by some other spiritual exercise then prayer in prai●ng? will he call fasting, kneeling etc., instructions of the mind what to pray? then be must needs plead for his Image & all popery, if these bodily actions & gestures be instruction of the mind, which are but preparations to make the body serviceable & apt to & in this duty. Further, how learnedly he disputeth to make reading one of these bodily gestures or bodily actions only, let it be considered of. And as he confoundeth these bodily exercises and spiritual exercises, so he showeth himself ignorant & unable to discern spiritual gifts & exercises one from an other, with the distinct use of them; demanding whither the voice of an other that prayeth, be an outward help or prayer yt self, an outward means to make our prayer more fervent. He thinketh I will be laughed at, if I say it be prayer yt self. Sure if in any assembly, or where two or three are in CHRIST'S name gathered together epi ●oa●●o & homothymadon unto the same thing & with one mind, for avoiding confusion they do use but one voice, and that by God's order & commandment, the others hearts going with the words & saying Amen, they that hear pray not as well as he that according to God's ordinance speaketh, our public prayers are not the prayers of the Church, but of him that speaketh only. But now God hath otherwise taught 1 Cor. 14. etc. Acts. 4. yt must needs be, that Mr. give. is in great error to think none but he that speaketh prayeth. I take them such hearing of an others voice, prai●ng; and this to be a foul error to publish the contrary; but that prayer both edifieth him that speaketh and him that heareth, and together in heart prayeth, I make no doubt. Yet hereupon to affirm, that there are other means of instruction to be used in the instantaction of praying then praying yt self, were as gross as the other, and both a confounding of spiritual exercises, and flat contradiction of the Scripture, especially so diverse weighty actions of mind & body, as proseuche, & anagnosis, pouring out our hearts to God in prayer, and reading. At other times I did not only allow, but teach, that we have all the days of our lives need to be instructed to pray aright, and that reading is a blessed means thereunto. So that you see whiles you of purpose will oppose, you run yourself upon the rock; in stead of iustifijng your accusation of two heresies to be found in my first reason, you have published this folly, which you must retract, if you will obey the truth.  
Mr. GIFFARD then granting, that reading is but to help to prayer & not praying, and now being showed that it can be no help in that instant action of praijng, let us proceed to peruse an other of his mistake & wilful perverting. I affirming, that the holy Ghost never enjoined us to any certain number of words by stint & limitation in praijng, as commanding the very words to be said over when we pray, he every where in his writings as a supposed foundation to their liturgy & Collects, alleged out of Numbers the 6. Mat. 6. Luke. 11. example of Psalms, and now Deut. 26 that the Lord did by commandment bind them to those very words saijng over, when they prayed or blessed in those forms which are there prescribed. For my reasons in disproving this popish carnal conceit, I refer the Reader to my former answer to his published pretended defence of reading for praijng. One reason was drawn from the words of the text Numb. 6. 32. where the hebrew words Coh Tebaracu, thus shall you bless, do not import a tying them to the very words of this form in blessing, but to the rules & instructions there taught them concerning the matter yt self for their direction, which I collected by this word Cob, which is an adverb of similitude, signifijng with us as much as [after this manner] and therefore cannot be to say the same words, but according to the same instructions. Where first he reproacheth me for that Tebaracu was false printed, thereupon charging me I cannot read two words right of Hebrew, which were no great ignominy in their priesthood: But shall we say Mr. give. cannot read two words in latin rightly▪ because in the 28. page of his book he repeateth out of Augustine, ●poli sui, for populi sui? This I mention as sorry to see the defender of this false Hieratchie so empty, to leau● sound doctrine, and thus to trifle; if he had been at the print, it should have been amended it seemeth. Now to the doctrine gathered of this word Coh, Mr. give. would invert the words in his own sense, thus; that where I said, the Lord did not command to say the same words but the like, that is, according to those directions of doctrine, he gathereth, that I should affirm it unlawful to use those words at all, yea that th●y might not use all or any of these words at any tyme. Whether this be a Christian interpretation of my words or no, I leave not only to all men's, but chiefly to his own conscience to be considered. Yet he still covertly persisting in his error, produceth a place of Scripture, where the word Coh (as he thinketh) is used for the saying of the very words. Exod. 3. The Lord said to Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel EHEIE hath sent me unto ye; moreover God said unto Moses, thus shalt thou say unto them, The God of your Fathers etc. According to Mr. Grenewo●ds interpretation (saith he) Moses is not commanded to say those words, but the like. True, he is not here bound to this certain number of words, or the same words. If then they should say, what is his name that hath sent thee, he may not say EHEIE hath sent me, because God said Coh etc. Now Mr. give. showeth himself a shifter: I did never hold it unlawful to use any words of the scripture as need required, it is your slander: where you have in all your books affirmed we hold it unlawful to say thy kingdom come, or use any phrase of scripture to right use; your woeful wrasting of the tongue for untruths, will turn to your further judgement. I proved only by the word Coh, which signifieth [after this manner] that God commanded not the very certain number of words to be said. And where I said the word Coh was so used in all the Prophets (when they say, Thus saith the Lord) to this end, that neither the holy Ghost had registered all their very words they spoke, nor that they were tied to the prescript number of words, he would have it thought I should hold those words which are recorded, n●t to be the words of God; which wrasting of my words, is but his empty quarrelling to turn away this firm doctrine: namely, that God did in those forms of prayer mentioned by him, prescribe the some of their blessings & petitions, whereunto they ought according to their several occasions within the limits of these doctrines, frame their suits and desires, and did not tie them to a certain number of words. Now he finding himself pressed, in that all his proofs are at once brought to be weapons against him rather than warrant, It being proved unto him that those forms are repeated in other words in other places, and that the Priests used other in blessing the people, as Eli blessed Hanna: also that the Apostles used other words in prayer, and never that very form and number of words, he plainly denieth that our question was about the binding & limiting to the very words by commandment, and saith our question was, whither it were idolatry to use those prescript phrases or no. Thus the man is fled, not only contradicting all his writings, making void his proofs, but granting as much as I affirmed upon the word COH, hath given me the whole cause against his will: For if these places will serve to prove an apportioning by number and stint upon commandment, than Mr. Giff. hath no proof for his Collects, no though these had been so, yet his patched broken mass-book should have been far from coming in place of true prayer. But that this is a popish dream to think in prayer they were bound to some certain number of words saying over, it was also convinced unto him by the Greek word houtos, where Christ commandith his Disciples, saying, When you pray, pray thus, Our Father etc. Which word [thus] Math. 6. 9 singnifieth, [after this manner] or according to this form, rules, and instructions; for if the commandment should go to bind us to the very words, than this word [when you pray] would bind us never to use other words, for the text saith, when you pray, say thus. To this he answereth, that respecting the rules for matters, when is as much as whensoever you pray, because we may not departed from those matters contained in those general petitious: But in words it is not so there, We must consider to distinguish etc. Well, hath he not lost himself, and still against his will yielded the matter; namely, that we are not in these forms of prayer bound to the very words saying over, and that the holy Ghost did never by commandment stint or limit us to any words in praying, which in deed is common with enchanters: And I take it he will easily yield me this point, for if he remember Augustine to teach, that then we pray that prayer which Christ taught his Disciples, when our prayers are grounded upon those doctrines and instructions, or to that effect: And Calvine to to say; the Son of man would not prescribe us what words we must use in prayer, he should have put us to less trouble: So that besides his mass-book was never prescribed by the Lord himself or warrant of his word, he seethe it unlawful to apportion, limit & stint as by measure and weight certain members of words, sentences etc., in prayer. As for his examples of the Psalms, I refer to my former answer, namely, that praying is one thing, and singing a psalm an other.  
Now than we have heard that reading is not praying or any help to pray in the instant action of praying, when we should power forth our own hearts to God: Also that it is unlawful to bind man to numbers of words of sentences in praying. Let us come to the first general argument, which is this. No Apochriphas must be brought into the public assemblies; for there only God's word and the lively voice of his own graces must be heard in the public assemblies: But men's write & the reading them over for prayer are Apochriphas: Therefore may not be brought into the public assemblies, either for laws or worship. Here he finds fault with the word Apochriphas (although it hath been an ancient word in this sense, and now published in their Bibles to distinguish other write from the authentic scriptures) willing me to go to the matter yt self, drawing by firm conclusion, that nothing is to be allowed any place in the Church, which is not the perfect rule yt self in writing or without error uttered in speech, and he will yield. This I did prove unto him by an Argument he was not able to answer, and did leave out the word Apochriphas, thus. Only the Canonical scriptures & lively voice of Gods own graces are to be brought into the public assemblies for doctrine & prayer: But men's writings or Collections are neither Canonical scripture, nor the lively voice of God's graces in such as he hath appointed to speak in the public assemblies. Therefore no man's writing may be brought into nor imposed upon the public assemblies for doctrine and prayer.  
Now where he cavilleth about the perfectness of the rule & absolute perfectness of the graces, it doth not help him: For the word of God being of necessity by the law and ordinance of God, to be read in our own language, I trust he will not deny it to be the written word of God for the unperfectness of the translation, being (to the best search the Church can make) scanned by the original tongue and still amended; or at least the Church no further bound to it, than it shall be found to be the perfect rule: so likewise the lively voice of God's graces are not for the imperfectness to be excluded, being Gods appointed ordinance; neither is any fault in the translation to be allowed, and error in doctrine or prayer are presently to be admonished & repent of. Mr. Giffard then must deny the Bible translated into our own language to be the Canonical Scriptures, and deny the lively voice of God's lawful officers, and such as are thereunto called, in doctrine and prayer, to be the manifestations of the spirit and utterance of God's graces for the assembly, or else grant the proposition firm: And if he can put dead men's writings into the place of either of these, I will yield. In the mean time I hold such translations to be the word of God, and by God's ordinance put into our own language, to all our knowledges retaining the words of God, which word & the lively use of Gods own graces in the mouth of such as he thereunto appointeth, are only to be brought into the public assemblies for prayer and doctrine; for God hath commanded these unto us as his own ordinances in his assemblies, and no other means whereby either God speaketh unto us, or his people unto him, in the Congregation. To this all the scriptures bear witness; the word is always firm, confirmed with miracles from heaven, and commended to us by Christ, the prophets & Apostles, to be the foundation, Canon, light, lantern etc., the graces of the Spirit given for the interpretation, prayer, doctrine etc. CHRIST is ascended up into heaven, and hath given gifts unto men to serve their time & minister in their place in this house. These graces still renewed, not only in those called of God in this service for their daily administration, but new workmen thrust forth into this harvest, as the Lord of the house disposeth: which graces of his Spirit are compared to two olive branches, which empty out of themselves thorough two golden pipes Zacharie 4. 12. And to seven thunders which utter their voices that cannot be written. Away therefore with your patched mass-book, it may neither stand for a foundation in God's house, nor for the lively voices of these thunders: you make it a monstrous Idol by putting it in either of these uses, yet you will make it serve for both. We have nothing to do with your matters of order, as you understand that order for time, place &c. we reason of the spiritual action yt self, when we entreat of the means whereby God speaketh to us, and appointeth us to speak unto him. We can cast out the errors in the translation or doctrine or prayer, and yet retain God's word in our own language, and the lively voice of his graces in the assembly: When you can do so with your devices and new hatched Leitourgies we will give ear unto you and them; till than we think of your counterfeit plays and pleas for your Idols and detestable sacrilege and high profanation of God's ordinances with jannes' and jambres to resist the truth. Paraphrases we hold to be men's writings and expositions, and not the word of God, nor the lively voice of God's grace of interpretation or prayer, therefore to be excluded this place of service unto God. Thus you see the further you wrestle, the further you make your wares, the best of them, odious to every godly conscience. You say I deceive the simple by giving them one crab amongst many apples; but you may behold your best apples such as the holy Ghost hath foretold us Revelations. 18. to be enticements to evil: It is well you will grant my Propositions so sound; and I would wish (if such be Gods will) they might be better favoured.  
Now because I will not stand either repeating or contending about Syllogisms, I will take this much yielded of your own conclusions, which is as much in effect as I have affirmed, where you teach me thus to reason. No man's writings are the undoubted truth of God, but have errors and imperfections: therefore men cannot further ground upon them, than they be consonant to the Canonical scriptures. Again, The Church is builded upon the foundation of the Apostles & Prophets: therefore our faith is not to rest upon men's writings. Whereupon doth necessarily follow, that if men's writings may not be builded upon nor rested upon, how should you dream it lawful to impose them for laws upon the public assemblies, or to have them there read to bear rule as the words of God? And this you confessed in an other of your writings, that God spoke unto us out of his undoubted word, or by his own word. If then God speak not unto us by men's writings that be of private interpretation, in the assembly, nor that they can be made groundwork to build our faith upon, or to rest assured upon, it will be granted I hope that they are not to be imposed upon the public assemblies as laws and rules, but left to every man's private use in their liberty, as they will answer for themselves what use they put them to, and whither they do not prefer them before the book of God, or prejudice themselves by them. This first point is then plain, That only Gods undoubted word is to be imposed, brought in, and maintained in the public assemblies as laws and rules, no other writings being authentic or Canonical. But here Mr. GIFF. doth in effect affirm, that the word of God yt self is not authentic or Canonical, except in the Hebrew or Greek Copy: Wherein he goeth a little beyond the Papists, that will yet allow the word of God in latin: And if it should be defended, that the word of God were not the word yt self that we have in our own language, it will follow that no man could have assurance of faith, except he understood both Hebrew and Greek, yea be able sound to interpret the scriptures in both. If the translations be so far men's writings that it ceaseth generally to be the word of God that is not written in Hebrew or Greek, and men's writings not to be grounded or rested upon, where shall our assurance stand? And might not Mr. Giff. as well say, the Hebrew and Greek Copy are but paper and ink, many faults and errors by the print in vowels, accents, letters; and so conclude we had not Authentic or canonical scriptures at all, except men's erroneous writings might be of equal authority in the assembly that the scriptures? must he not bear with me in accounting him an Atheist or Libertine in thus reasoning? Hence than we see while you go about to abase the Canonical scriptures, and extol your patched liturgy, you fall into many blasphemies, as I have before told you. We hold it the word of God in what language soever, still rejecting the errors in the print, in the translations &c. as they are known unto us, and not to the word yt self for the imperfections or errors in the translation and print. Now when you can so reject the errors in men's writings, as you can make that which remaineth the undoubted word of God, not agreeable only, but an Authentic approved Canonical scripture, authorized from God to be the very eternal foundation and rules, limits and laws given by himself unto his people, you may lift up your stumped Dagon into this place, if there be some truth in their writings (as what men's writings have not some, and the holy name of God very much) yet is that truth in the Scripture yt self & here so mingled with chaff, that it were not only unprofitable & a hindrance of the true use of God's word, but an abolishing and defacing of the word yt self; the majesty where of aught to terrify you from this presumption. And where you say that you decide not controversies by any translation, but by the Authentic Copies of the Hebrew and Greek, I trust you speak only of such as are able by the interpretation thereof so to decide controversies, and hold it not unlawful for any such as have not that help, to convince error by the power of the word and conferring one place with an other in any translation, according to the analogy of faith, though I grant we ought to use the best approved. But if this were not lawful, surely no man might prophesy in the Church, which hath not the gift of interpretion of the tongue, neither might any affirm any scripture to be true, but they which have knowledge of tongues: How blasphemous is this gear, while you are ignorant of the power, wisdom and agreement of the word and spirit, and diversity of gifts given unto men; the Word & the Spirit approve each other, and bear witness each of other, in what language soever God giveth it, to our understanding. prophesy & knowledge of tongues are two several gifts, not always given to one member, but distributed as God in his wisdom hath appointed. 1 Cor. 12. and prophesy commanded for the more excellent Cap. 14. But this is sufficient in this place, that the word of God is the word of God in what language soever, and to account it being verbatim translated, or at least so far fo●rth faithfully translated, man's writing, were blasphemy: but men's writings can never be so holden the authentic scriptures of God, how agreeable to the word soever they be. My Argument is then firm, and thus left upon you: Those writings which be not the word of God being imperfect, & never without error, may not be imponed as laws & Canons upon the public assemblies, or there be read or interpreted, or offered up in worship: But such are almens' writings that be not the authentic word or God yt self. The public assemblies are only bound to the reading & interpretation of the Scriptures, which God hath ordained to be read in a known language, and for prayer & prophesy hath ordained the lively voice of his own graces in the mouth of such as he hath appointed to be the mouth of the Congregation unto him, and his mouth unto them. So that your pa●ched liturgy, paraphrases, songs in rhyme, homilies, and all your dead men's writings, are cast forth of the public assemblies, and manifest to be Idols when they are thrust into that place.  
Now where I alleged that the binding of the public assembly, yea of all assemblies, to certain writings of men every day & year their number & portion of words, daily, monthly & yearly in all assemblies the same matter an words reiterated, in stead of pouring forth their hearts unto God according to their present needs and occasions, was a setting of themselves in God's seat and taking the office of his Spirit, which only knoweth the wants of the several assemblies according to their diverse occasions, he runneth away from the matter, as one unwilling to hear of this their 〈◊〉 & counterfeit babbling, demanding whether every one should utter their own particular wants in the public assembly, or should pray nothing but that every one feeleth the present want of in himself, or should tell the Minister before hand what every one of their wants were; then how the Minister should remember al. Are these any thing but mere canils? can any of these follow upon the former doctrine? And let him look again, whether he that is the mouth of the Congregation unto God in public prayer, must not consider the present public occasions of that public assembly, and thereafter frame his prayers, all the people joining in heart to his words of petition or thanksgyving, saying Amen to so much as he asketh according to the will of God & need of the time, yea & if they have not feeling in such prayers, they are unfeeling members: yet neither doth he intermeddle with private or secret wants, neither need they tell him them; he is sent for the public affairs of the Church, to commend the several actions general & public, unto God: And as they are diverse in every assembly, so must he be a man of wisdom to know, see, and consider them, lest they all rashly step into the house of God to offer up the sacrifice of fools, & make a sergeant babbling Eccle. 4. Yet the sin of this is nothing comparable to th● dung your Priests cast forth by prattling over your English Portuis, which y●● Lord will one day cast in your faces. As then in private prayer we are to lay forth our own wants & estate of our own soul, which cannot be done by reading an other man's writings, always singing one song, customably repeating in superstition certain words, our hearts never ripped up, examined, nor the diseases thereof laid open unto God, seeking due cure: So the man that is the mouth of the whole assembly prayeth, as the mouth of one body, for all their open public present wants & occasions: Which occasions, considering the persons & actions, are diverse & cannot be written for one assembly before hand, much less for all assemblies in a whole kingdom, neither by man nor Angel. See then the mock erye of your service book, and what Idolatry is committed by it, to the abandoning true prayer according to the present wants & occasion.  
The next thing to be considered, is, about making of laws in the worship of God. Where he would persuade us that their whole liturgy containing all their public worship, government, offices & ordinances of their Church, be but matters of order & conveniency. Then the compelling & teaching the public assembly to read over men's writings both as Canons & laws in the Church, and publicly & privately to offer them up in stead of true prayer & holy invocation, is a matter of comeliness & conveniency. In the mean time it must be a turning away of the whole order & ordinances of God: For what is the whole Testament of Christ but an order for every office, person, action in the Church, if he will have it taxis, and then must confess their liturgy an other order of public administration, and so as I have said an other Gospel, an other Testament, a setting up an other worship. And hereupon I trust I may call all this an adding to the word of God; yea I will go a little further, an abolishing & disabling & dishonouring of the word yt self & graces of his spirit. And whither all this smoke of the bottomless pit may not be reproved with these scriptures, not only Proverb. 30 verse. 5. 6. Deut. 4. verse 32. but also Reu. 22. verse. 18. 19 let the godly ponder and search: and let the fearfulness of the threats deter all flesh from presuming to alter the ordinances, laws & worship of the most high God. And that the very reading of an other man's writing for my own prayer, or the prayer of the Church, in stead of pouring forth our own hearts, is a changing of the whole worship into the making men's writing an Idol, which is by these places condemned as an accursed sin, let the most hard text (as he in carnal wonder exclaimeth) be looked into Revel. 22. verse 18. 19 The words are plain: If any man put or add any thing unto these, or if any man take away from these words, he shallbe judged as followeth. Now if the adding an other whole Worship, and suppressing of that God hath appointed, be not an adding to these things written, give sentence as you will answer. O (saith he) but it is said God will add unto such all the plagues written in this book; and there is in this book mentioned the lake of fire: As though the lake of fire is not due for every sin, and yet not every one that committeth sin to be condemned; what sin is it that deserveth not the eternal wrath of God? yet not every one that sinneth given over to that judgement, for either it may be of ignorance, or of negligence, and washed away by repentance in the blood of Christ, or it may be repent of & left when we see it. Mr. GIFFARD hath read well the curses of the law & all the curses due for sin, that seethe not how many curses the law & the Prophets pronounced upon sin, to call the persons themselves to repentance; showing together the equity of God's law, & yet withal the free mercy of God to all that truly repent their evil ways. All that receive the Beasts mark in their hand or forehead, are threatened to be cast with the Beast and false Prophet into that lake; yet I doubt not but many that have been so seduced into that sin, shall by repentance be saved: Not that I encourage any to continued in such fearful estate, to harden their hearts against the threatenings of God, but that I would have Mr. GIFF. to put difference between the curse laid to the sin, and the condemnation of the person sinning: And seeing he taketh that lake a particular severe threat to the Apostasy under Antichrist, I would he had the grace to consider how it lieth upon him, whiles he speaketh out of the mouth of the Beast, if he repent not to turn from his evil ways. Let it further be weighed how ignorantly he chargeth me to condemn all Churches, for this small examplifying of this Egiption darkness, Idolatrous worship, and exalting men's writings into this defacing of God's word and true worship, they neither being guilty of such a sacrilegious liturgy, as this Egyptian Calf hatched at ROME, neither are to be presently judged no Church for others sin, till they join obstinacy to their transgression. But shift the matter as you will, or rather as you can appear before God, I will not make less the sin, or the judgement due to sin, for men's persons, no not of whole Churches, if they shall be guilty therein: My desire is by discovery of the sin, to bring men to repentance, and unto the awe of God in his worship: who are guilty besides yourselves in such sacrilege, as to abrogate the Leitourgy of Christ, & set up an other, or to restrain Gods true worship, & to give life to the image of the Beast, it skilleth me not; let sin be sin, and God righteous, and then examine yourselves, if they or you be clear I rejoice, neither do I think or can charge them with such Idolatry as is here erected: I take it you will be found the slanderer of other Churches, to hide your own filthiness. But saith Mr. Giff. those scriptures are against the adding of human precepts & laws to be kept as parts of God's worship to bind the conscience to seek righteousness & the forgiveness of sins, or the merit of eternal life in them, or against such rules of government as God hath to be perpetual. In which we must take your meaning to be this; that you grant where any human precepts & laws be enforced as a part of God's worship, or as laws to bind the conscience, or when righteousness is sought in them, and forgiveness of sins by observing of them, or merit by them, or if they be against such rules of government as God hath set to be perpetual, if the additions or constitutions be such as any of these, than such laws and constitutions are against the perfection of the word of God, against Christian liberty, and in the chief things which con●erne God's worship, against the ground and foundation of our faith, and so a thing most detestable & accursed, which our Saviour CHRIST refused justly to observe with the blind Phariseiss, wherein you have granted as much as I ever affirmed: For is not your whole liturgy being an other than CHRIST'S Testament, your whole reading men's writings in place and in stead of laying forth your own present wants and occasions in prayer to God, human constitutions, and made a part of God's worship? at least such pretended worship as you think good enough for him? Weigh the matter uprightly: Again, whither your whole Antichristian government, offices, Courts and ministery, be not constitutions and ordinances against such rules of CHRIST'S government as be perpetual, and an innovating of his Testament, examine; which you shall soon perceive, if you look but what CHRIST'S perpetual ordinances, offices, officers and laws for the guiding, ordering and governing of his Church be, prescribing every one their place, duty & limits jointly & severally, and not find your ministery registered there, but a strange liturgy and worship borrowed from the Pope, which came out of the bottomless pit; confess your sacrilege in suppressing CHRIST'S whole ministery and ordinances, and erecting an other for the perpetuity of his, even to every nail and py●: The holy Ghost showeth that only to be his ministery, till we be all a perfect body in him, and his whole ministery and ordinances a kingdom that cannot be shaken Hebr. 12. Ephes. 4. a commandment to be kept undefiled till the apearing of JESUS CHRIST; his Sceptre an everlasting Sceptre; the Son as faithful in his house as MOSES a servant in the Tabernacle, who made all things according to the pattern: So that it is to be wondered Mr. GIFFARD should think any part of Christ's government should not be perpetual, that was given by his Apostles the master builders and layers of the foundation, whereby all actions should be tried to the world's end. May not Mr. Giff. as well call into question the perperuitie of the Testament, as the laws & rules for the government of his Church. Now if your whole false Hierarchy, Offices, Officers, Laws, Worship, be plainly other than CHRIST'S, as in our other writings are proved, and shame will inhibit you to deny, how can you be so drunk with the cup of the Whore's fornication, to think you have no constitutions, laws or traditions, which are a part of worship, and against such rules of CHRIST'S government as the Apostles have prescribed for the ordering of his house, and the same ordained for all Churches till we become all a perfect body in him? But if Mr. GIFF. will show himself so void of all conscience and truth, to say all their traditional worship and Antichristian Offices and ordinances be neither part of their woship nor constitutions disannulling the ordinances of Christ, yet will be confess I doubt not this kind of worship and government to be imposed as matters to bind the conscience, being all the service of God they have, seeing he would also have all that observe them not, to be censured and excommunicate for this merchandise: it were a sore matter a man should be cut off from Christ and his Church, given over to Satan, and the judgement ratified in heaven against soul and body, for a matter that binds not the conscience, As though the soul & body (howsoever some things pertain to the one, or is done by the one as proper work thereof) were not both to be counted when the conscience shallbe opened to answer for all done in both, or by either of both, even whatsoever we have done in soul and body; and Calvine would but divide the soul and the body in Civil causes. But Mr. Giffard would go a note further; namely, that in the service of God in such causes as the transgression deserve excommunication, to be no matter binding the conscience. But it may be Mr. Giff. doth suppose, that except the constitutions ecclesiastical be such, as righteousness be commanded to be fought in the doing them, and forgiveness of sins and merit by them, all is well. Then, besides the other abuses granted, he must be demanded whither those traditions of the Fathers, which our Saviour Christ and his Disciples refused to observe, were imposed as meritorious? whereunto we answer, No: For in the superstitious washings of cups, of beds, with all such trincketts, we see to be no such matter Mark. 7. and Christ's words in saying, they laid the commandments of God aside to set up their own traditions, doth show wherein the sin was; namely, to do and observe such things of vain glory, superstition, or custom, as God had not enjoined them, and to leave undone the laws and commandments of God; which sin is your transgression at this day: Read therefore the 7. of Mark & 15. of Matthew more diligently. Further those superstitious traditions Gal. 4. & Colos. 2. the observing whereof were the denial of Christ, were neither held meritorious, nor justification sought by them, many of them being jewish ceremonies, sometimes as rudiments commanded of God, now abolished and no further burden to be laid in such outward things; no, We read not that the law of God yt self was either commanded, or so observed, as to seek righteousness by it. Now then to the matter; Mr. Giff. thinketh CHRIST and his Apostles did well in refusing to obey the traditions of the Fathers at the pharisees commandment, and so must confess it lawful and a duty of us to refuse to observe your jewish ceremonies and Romish superstitious traditions, which are so many as even your whole liturgy and worship contain nothing else, God's laws and ordinances not only left undone, but all that plead for them and seek to walk in them, persecuted with deadly hatred. And how Mr. Giff. will prove that there is no adding or diminishing to or from the word of God, by imposing and creating more laws than God hath made in his worship and government of his Church, but such as be made part of the worship, or bind conscience, or be meritorious, or against such rules of his government as be perpetual, though I take all your orders, laws, worship in this compass; yet how you can pove this, I know not; for look again upon the scriptures Pro. 30. 5. 6. De●●. 4. 2. & 12. 32. and. Gal. 3. 15. Revel. 22. 18. 19 and you shall find, that to add, superordeine, innovate or diminish or take any thing from the laws of God already prescribed for his worship, were to abrogate his law, to lay further burdens than he hath laid, to make his law unperfect, and set ourselves in his seat; yea whatsoever we put to which he hath not commanded, or whatsoever we inhibit that he hath commanded, is here forbidden: For this saith the Lord, Ye shall put nothing unto the word which I command you, neither shall you take aught therefrom that you may keep the precepts of the Lord your God which I command you Deut. 4. 2. And that this was as well in the outward ordinances of the Temple as in the judgements, is plain in the first verse. Again in the 12. Chap. 32. Whatsoever I command you, take heed you do it; Thou shalt put nothing thereto nor take any thing therefrom; and in the Proverbs. Every word of God is pure, put nothing vn●o his words lest he reprove thee and thou be found a liar. Now the scripture speaking so absolutely and generally against all addition or detraction to or from his ordinances, Mr. Giff. overshooteth himself of his bare word to contradict and limit so express commandements; for these scriptures (saith he) are against adding of human precepts and laws to be kept as parts of God's wrship, to bind the conscience to seek righteousness, forgiveness of sin, merit in them, or against such rules of government as God hath set to be perpetual. This is true, but this is not all, for the law is general against all inventions, traditions, constitutions, whatsoever God hath not commanded, as the second Commandment doth also teach. Thou shalt not make to thyself &c. so that God hath left nothing to be laid upon his Church by commandment, which he hath not commanded: And therefore that place of the Apostle to the Gal. 3. 15. must be better perused: If it be but a man's Testament when it is confirmed no man doth abrogate it or superordeine any thing to it: CHRIST'S Testament then being much more perfect, his whole mind for the ordering of his house manifested therein, it is wicked presumption to alter the ordinances thereof, or to hold them unmeet or unsufficient for any age or estate. Well, Mr. GIFF. could now be content thus far to limit the power of the Church; namely, to have her subject and obedient to his voice; but that he supposeth there may be laws ecclesiastical made, of things in themselves indifferent; that where the scripture hath commanded such things to be used at our liberty for order, for comeliness, edification and glory of God, as matters of place, time, and such circumstance. But he here mistaketh his text, for the Lord commandeth by the Apostle in that place 1 Corint. 14. that those public business and exercises of the assemblies, should be done in order, in comeliness, to edifijng; and doth not leave something to be commanded, which the master builders hath not prescribed: For to bind those things by law which God hath not bound in his worship, we are to add new traditious to bring us into bondage of the creatures, which the same Apostle denieth ever to be brought into bondage unto 1 Corint. 6. 12. in his own person teaching us so to walk: the Lord see in his wisdom cause to leave them in our liberty, knowing there would be no end of such particular laws, especially if he had left it to man's wit to make and unmake laws therein: For the orders you speak of then, meaning circumstances of time, place, kneeling, sitting, standing etc., there can be no further laws of them, than the Apostle hath set, and (as the Minister of CHRIST prescribed) that all be done to edifying in comeliness, order etc. Of these to set particular laws, were to break these general laws of God, whereby he teacheth us the true use of them, and leaveth them in the Church's liberty as need requireth to use them or not use them: Neither can all assemblies be bound in these things to the same in particular, that being needful and decent in one, that is not in an other. And in that you would have them no further commanded, than they be needful, convenient, decent etc., you condescend that there can be no settled law in particular laid upon the Church in them: For to use them so far as they be convenient, necessary, and to edifijng, is the law and commandment of God; and to use them further at any man's commandment, were both a breach of God's law, and making the creatures stumbling blocks, Idols, bondages, and every way sinful. And when the Church commandeth them so far to be used as they are commanded of God, the Church doth but ratify and see God's law executed; so that you have lost yourself, whiles you should have proved your bold assertion: That the Church hath power to ordain laws, for to create or make laws, which you see the folly of, being now driven to another shift; that in the particular things whereof God hath given general laws, we may make settled laws, and yet but for the time they be convenient; Whereas in deed God's law is the same and nothing else. But because they be necessary in one place, that be not in another, at one time, that be not at another, of some persons, that be not to other, there can be no law set in the particular one day for all assemblies in such things. Neither shall any disagreement be such amongst the several Churches, as need any contention for them, while every assembly do that which is to themselves most meet, most convenient and necessary in such things, for the present tyme. The Pastor and Elders were of small discretion if they might not have these things in their liberty; and even these doctrines and examples are in this point against yourself, which you have alleged from other Churches. But my purpose is not to contend about men's writings, nor to be drawn into controversy with other Churches, when I am to deal with your present sin; for the avoiding whereof you thus rage. If your cause be good, plead it by the scriptures, and I willbe so far from casting out darts against all Churches, as I will not deal with their estate, till I be further occasioned; the rather may I omit this labour, for that you have alleged one place of scripture which you suppose will bear ●p all your matter: If it help you not, I see not how you will de●end your assertion. In the 15. of the Acts where it is said the Apostles, Elders, and brethren at jerusalem met about the question of Circumcision and other Ceremonies of Moses law, which some would have burdened the Gentiles with, we see there (saith he) that the Apostles themselves did decree some thing for the time, which afterward were to be altered when the occasion was taken away, namely, that the Gentiles should abstain from blood, and from strangled, for avoiding offence to the weak jues. First let us see what the decree was, and then it will appear how little it serveth Mr. Giff. his purpose: these be the words. Act. 15. 28. 29. It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us, to lay no more burden upon you then that wihich is necessary of these things, to abstain from Idolothytes, and from blood, and from strangled, and from for●i●●tion; fro● which keeping yourselves, ye do well. For one of these, which is [fornication] we have here no question, it being by the moral law always forbidden: For the other Mr. Giffard would thus reason. The Apostles themselves did decree them for the time, therefore the Church hath power to make and ordain laws in things of themselves indifferent, about the worship of God and public exercises. For our answer, we would have Mr. Giff. first learn, that he, in saying the Apostles themselves did this by the direction of the holy Ghost, hath overthrown himself; for these were the Master builders, appointed of God to be law makers for the whole liturgy and worship of CHRIST to all posterities, even all the laws and ordinances of the new Testament, confirmed by miracles from heaven, delivered by their ministry unto us: It will not follow then, if the Apostles had made and ordained some law here, that therefore every Synod or any Synod may impose laws & commandments by themselves ordained, till they show they have that power given them the Apostles had, and an other liturgy to be made, which they shall never be able to do, without a new Christ. We have a sure foundation already laid, whereupon all Synods and Counsels must build, and suffer their actions to be tried thereby; they have not power to enjoin one title, which is not by the word of God enjoined us. Further, what did the Apostles here that they had not warrant for; neither would they lay any yoke or burden. And as for these things, they do as much bind us now if there be like cause, namely, not in Idolothyts, blood, or that which is strangled to offend our weak brethren, if the jews should be now again called, neither to offend any in meat or drink for whom Christ hath died: Neither was there here any absolute law made of these things, nor necessity for the present time, fu●der than it should be necessary for the respect set down; for otherwise it had been to build again the things destroyed; only they thus counseled and adonished the Gentiles to use their liberty in these things, as they might give no offence to their weak brethren of the jews, the more to draw them on in the ways of CHRIST; for they do not enjoin it as a law, but tell them they shall do well if they observe these things, by no necessity enforced. But we do not now observe these things, the occasions being removed. True, therefore I trust you will grant, that no man shall be further bound to any constitution in such things indifferent, then there shall be cause, neither need we public order to retract; so that you leave the matter to me, that we can be no further bound in such things, then by those rules of edifijng, order, comeliness, occasion shall require, so that we neither need nor can have settled laws herein: how much more bondage and burden is imposed under this Antichristian yoke, the things being of themselves most loathsome and detestable Popery, abrogating and making void all the true ordinances laws and worship of CHRIST, and so enforced as hot persecution proceedeth against any that of conscience abstain from them, let it be considered. Neither hath there ever been detracting this thirty years of any your abominations, neither is held lawful for them that seethe them unlawful, to forbear them, without deadly hate, to be followed to the death. Blessed be our God, that hath delivered our souls out of such Egyptian servitude; our lives are not dear unto us, neither shall your reproach move us.  
Now concerning the last places of the Treatise, where he is utterly mute in this, that all which stand under another Hierarchy or spiritual regiment than CHRIST'S, be by outward profession no true Christians, or under the promise of salvation, also for the freedom we profess in holy obedience to all statutes and ordinances of God; as he hath left untouched the matter, for which he alleged the 7. to the Romans, namely, the outward professed bondage to a false spiritual government, so I having before largely expressed my mind in that point of doctrine, and in such as then were about these things opposed, refer any that desire the truth herein, to ponder the reasons & proofs there set down, not minding to repeat again, or to be set awork in unfolding his troublesome and confuse cavils in abusing this place, or to make further reply, till I see more capable conceit in him of such principles of regeneration and sanctification, of freedom and bondage; yet for others direction, one cavil or two shallbe briefly set in view. First where he supposing I had been in error (and he himself fast fettered in heresy and feeths it not) chargeth me to run as far on the other side, as a wheel turned with contrary motions of the stream, for saying I held the dear children of God might fall into any sin, except the sin against the holy Ghost, yet be restored by rep●tance, Gods grace so far abounding, always considered (as then I noted) that obstinacy in any sin, made them to us the servants of sin whiles they so remayn●d, not speaking this to give leave or encouragement to presume in the least or first step of sin, lest God leave them to themselves, but to give them hope if they return that have so fallen▪ he excepteth generally against all presumptuous sin, saying, of frailty God's children may fall, but of presumption he maketh great doubt, for 〈◊〉 so sinning to be renewed by repentance, for it is spoken of the Maranatha to be pronounced in this life to none, but that be in that sin against the holy Ghost: and here to fill his paper (as his common shift is, when he can neither affirm nor deny) he putteth me to new questions: You must (saith he) declare how filthy incest is, not sin against the holy Ghost, nor if a man kill his Father or Mother or children, nor witchcraft, nor familiarity with spirits, is not your meaning that the regenerate man may of presumption and obstinacy commit these? If Mr. give. should thus understand the word may, he is in the same fault to say the regenerate may sin of frailty: And I answer further, he could understand the word may otherwise, if (as in all his writings) he carried not this mind to take all in evil part, to quarrel, he could have understood it thus; that God suffereth of his elect to fall into such sin, yet he is able to reduce them by repentance, and hath made promise to receive them if they return; and not have cavilled in this manner in such things, the horror in the very naming of which sins shaketh the flesh and bones of the godly to hear or behold; so that his drift is but to cast in a little wormwood, to deface the truth delivered: Therefore I will only prove the general doctrine before affirmed, and for these particulars, let him that taketh pleasure in r●king in them, being sins not once to be named amongst God's children, answer himself. And much better might he have put his question thus. Wither wilfully committing of sacrilege, and presumptuous continuing to enchant in a false ministry, with jannes' and ●●mbres resisting the truth, persecuting the light against their knowledge, be not within the compass of that sin against the holy Ghost. That Gods elect after regeneration do fall into presumptuous sin, and for a time persist in obstinate sin, and may be restored by repentance, I thus prove. Many of God's children may be excommunicate, and upon the repentance be received again, as the incestuous person 1. Cor. 5. therefore do for a time remain in obstinate sin. Again every sin is to be prayed for, but that one sin against the holy Ghost 1 john. 5. 16. Therefore presumptuous sin is committed of Gods elect after regeneration. That all presumptuous sin is not sin against the holy Ghost, we shall see by the description of that sin Hebr. 6. & 10. where there is dispyting of the spirit, accounting the blood of JESUS an unholy thing, persecuting the light they have sometimes tasted of, and such like notes, which are degrees further than presumption; for there is presumption of ignorance, of rashness, of hope of mercy, and many times do the Prophets charge the people with rebellion against God; so that all presumption cannot have the curse maranatha pronounced upon it, or the persons not to be prayed for. But sure I grant, that presumption is near to that sin, and there cannot be that high sin without presumption. But now if all sin but sin of frailty were unpardonable, your Clergy were in a woeful case, that thus mainly resist the truth, and persecute God's servants.  
Neither is this doctrine any way contrary to that I delivered, namely, that the regenerate man cannot be said to stand in bondage to sin after regeneration, and the servant of God at the same time by outward profession; for none are in bondage to sin after their calling to the faith, (to our judgement) but such as continue obstinate in their open known sin after due admonition: that such stand not by outward profession the servants of CHRIST but of sin, and are to be excommunicate, he willingly granteth; and hereupon merueileth how I should gather, that obstinate gross sinners should not be excommunicate, which he might plainly perceive if he had eyes; for if all the regenerate Bee in bondage to sin, and so the servants of sin and of Satan, how should they cast out an other for bondage out of their fellowship by the power of CHRIST? If Mr. GIFF. say, because the obstinate is in greater bondage than the other; this proveth not that the bond can cast out the bond by the power of CHRIST. Again, if all be in bondage, than none can be holden without for being in bondage to sin; so that none should be excommunicate, none without, the world and the Church, light and darkness, CHRIST and Beliall should be mingled together. To all which he hath made no answer, but demandeth certain questions, and maketh such a formal conclusion, as if all were in bondage unto sin. His questions I grant all affirmatively, yet deny his consequence. Let him plainly prove therefore by evidence of scripture, that all that do sin are bondslaves of sin; and when he hath so done, I shall thereupon conclude him a flat Anabaptist in the chief ground of their profession. Very gladly therefore would he leave out the word [bondage], and falsely accuseth and sclandereth me, in saying I hold that men can not outwardly appear sinners, and stand the servants of CHRIST both at a time, which is an open untruth: It is he, that cannot put difference between sinning, and bondage unto sin; so that in one word all his questions are answered: If any be in bondage to sin, he standeth a servant thereof. Now for the 7. to the Romans, the Apostle setting forth the strife between the flesh and the Spirit, speaketh sometimes in the person of the one (if I may so speak) and sometimes of the other; sometimes of the new man or regenerate part, or of himself so far as he is regenerate; sometimes of the old man, which is not wholly slain, but full of rebellion striveth for mastery. Now I must demand of him, whether of these two have the pre-eminence, dominion and rule in the regenerate, the graces of the spirit, or the rebellions of the flesh? The same Apostle saith the spirit, and that part of the man renewed therewith, which we call the inner man In the 8. Cap. he maketh it plain, The law of the spirit of life in CHRIST hath freed me from the law of sin and of death. What is the law of the Spirit but the power, rule, and dominion of the Spirit of God in us? And what is the law of sin, but the power of sin, and bondage, wherewith we were sometimes led headlong by Satan at his pleasure, but are now freed, that it no more doth reign or bear rule in us unto condemnation. Again, whosoever are led by the Spirit of God, are the sons of God; and in the 7. Cap. 4. and 6. Cap. 16. know you not that to whom you exhibit yourselves servants unto obedience, his servants you are to whom you give yourselves obedient? DAVID feeling the great assaults of sin in his flesh, and his inability to keep the Law of God, earnestly prayeth unto the Lord Direct my steps in thy word (saith he) and let none iniquity have dominion over me. After the strong man is cast out, CHRIST beareth the rule over us and in us, by his Spirit. So the scripture every where pronounceth us Saints by calling, Kings, and Priests, a people set free; not that we sin not in thought word and deed hourly and daily, but that sin hath not dominion over us: If then we were in bondage to sin, we are the servantes of sin and of death, which God forbidden. Where Mr. GIFF. therefore reasoneth thus; the regeneration is imperfect, therefore the freedom is imperfect, therefore there is some bondage, it is blasphemy: For first our freedom is perfect in CHRIST, else his death is not sufficient. Then though our sanctification be not perfect, yet is there no bondage, but a rebellion of sin; which if it should reign, we were not the servants of CHRIST: And while it seemeth for a time to reign, and we obstinately to cleave unto it, we are judged (so far as men can judge) the servants of it, and so given over from CHRIST unto Satan, till the grace of the Spirit again to our judgement again appear to bear rule. As for DAVID in the whole year after he had committed adultery and murder, he never pleaded for his sin when he was reproved, nor did no longer cleave unto it. So likewise though we fall and sin, and be ●edd away with sin, yet are we not in bondage thereunto, until we obstinately and wilfully give ourselves unto it from CHRIST, which you find not in the 7. to the Rom. but resisting of sin, a hatred of sin, a will to do good, a repentance and continual recovery of himself, and flying unto CHRIST. So that your doctrine is false, to say, the Apostle stood in some spiritual bondage; and my Argument still firm, that these Ministers and people which stand in a professed bondage to a false government, their prayers are an abomination unto the Lord, till they repent and submit themselves unto CHRIST and his laws and ordinances. Which the Lord give them grace to do, even speedily to departed out of the house of bondage, and from all subjection of his Antichristian Hierarchy.  
CHRIST'S unworthy witness for the truth and freedom of the Gospel. JOHN GRENWOOD.  
FINIS.