THE Christian against the jesuite. Wherein the secret or nameless writer of a pernicious book, entitled A Discovery of I. Nicols Minister etc. privily printed, covertly cast abroad, and secretly sold, is not only justly reproved: But also a book, dedicated to the Queen's Majesty, called A persuasion from papistry, therein derided and falsified, is defended by Thomas Lupton the author thereof. Read with advisement, and judge uprightly: and be affectioned only to truth. He hath made a grave and digged it, but he himself will fall into the pit which he hath made. Psal. 7. Seen and allowed. ¶ Imprinted at London for Thomas Woodcock dwelling in Paul's Church yard, at the sign of the black Bear. 1582. To the right honourable Sir Francis Walsingham, knight, principal Secretary to her Majesty, and one of her highness most honourable privy Council: Thomas Lupton wisheth earthly prosperity and heavenly felicity. AS there is, hath been and will be (right honourable) both Wheat and Darnel, Corn and Cockle, and good Seeds and tars: even so there hath been, is, and will be sowers of both sorts. For the children of God do sow the good corn of God's word: and the servants of Satan have and will, scatter abroad Darnel, the devils doctrine. But as the godly sowers shall dwell for ever with God, whose good seed they did sow: sooth throwers abroad of the darnel, shall dwell with the Devil, except they cease from their sowing. Yet they (like senseless Swine) will needs wallow in the puddle of perdition, though they are theeatned with the scriptures for the same. Both which sowers are so different at this day, that they that have any glimmering at all: may know the good sowers from the evil, the godly from the wicked, & the true from the false. Notwithstanding, these wicked sowers of the devils darnel, go about as much as in them lie: to persuade us that they are the true sowers, and that their Cockle is pure and good corn. But whose sowers they are, and whose seed they do sow: all they that are guided by God's word, do right perfectly know. And as there hath been a wonderful rabble of Satanical sowers from the beginning, ever seeking to choke the good corn of God's word, with their devilish darnel: so there hath sprung up not long since, a seditious sect of Satanical sowers, seeking by all means; to choke or suppress the good corn with their cockle, and the Gospel of Christ, with the doctrine of the Devil. And these are they that call themselves jesuits, but they rather deserve to be called judaites: for they follow judas in betraying, not jesus in saving. One of which number (as it should seem) hath made a pernicious book in praise of the Pope and Papistry, and in reproach of M. Nicols, lately converted from Papistry to the Gospel, and returned from the Pope to his Prince. But it doth appear that he doubted his doctrine, else he would have set his name to his book. Wherein also he doth detract a book by 〈◊〉 pend and published, called A persuasion from papistry (which I 〈◊〉 dicated & exhibited to the Queen's 〈◊〉) without disproving or confuting any one part thereof. Whose nameless work, in such points as I knew to be false, I have not only taken upon me to reprove: but also to defend myself & my said book, by him therein depraved & slandered. And for that I know your honour to be a zealous favourer of the Gospel, a perfect professor of God's word, & an affable Magistrate (whose wisdom and learning is such, that you can easily try, truth from falsehood, & right from wrong) I have chosen you to be a judge between a Christian & a jesuite. Beseeching you to pardon me for my boldness herein, assuring your honour, that your common commendations, and the good will I bear you: hath made me to do that, that discretion and modesty should have made me refuse. But though my baseness doth not deserve such a judge: yet the cause which is Christ's doth crave such a one. Humbly requesting you (though your affairs be great and your leisure little) to read and peruse the same as occasion will serve and time will permit. Trusting, that your reading thereof, will be more delightful than tedious, & will rather recreate you than weary you. And thus ceasing herein any further to trouble your honour: I do wish you in this life to be guided by God, and after, to reign for ever with Christ. Your Honour's most humble, and faithful to command. Thomas Lupton. ¶ A brief Table for the finding out of necessary matters of this book. A Answer unlooked for. Fol. 1. Pag. 1. A thing worth the noting. Fol. 18. pa. 2. 〈◊〉 laws in the chief of the pope's bosom. Fol. 13. pag. 2. Abominable doctrine to say that any man can do such penance as god's justice requireth. fo. 34. pa. 1 Apostles did cast lots for a fellow Apostle, but not for the prophets to be their protectors. Fol. 38. pa. 2. As god bearteh with wicked men, so pope's and prince's may suffer their stews. Fol. 41. pag. 2. Apt argument of one that is suffered to steal apples. Fol. 46. pa. 1. As the Pope hath a heavenly judgement in his breast, so jesuits have worldly men's thoughts in their 〈◊〉. Fol. 53. pa. 1 Asper latin for a Cat. Fol. 54. pa. 2. Abundantia latin for water. Folly 54. pag. 2. Agnus dei as Christ's blood can put away 〈◊〉. Fol. 60. pa. 1. Astronomical second, and they musical semebrief, are both in one time Fol. 63. pag. 2. An eosi kind of confuting. Fol. 67. pag. 2. Authority of the Church of Rome is more than gods word. Fol. 83. pag. 1. Arguments and circumstances of two sides brought in 15 〈◊〉 words. Fol. 88 pag. 1. As much as GOD is better than a priest, so much is the priest better than a king Fol. 92. pag. 2. Alexander keeper of Newgate died miserably. Fol. 94. pag. 1. Acts and monuments is tied with long chains in all Churches of England, if jesuits do not jyefol. 97. pag. 1. B Barnards' text against themselves Fol. 9 pag. 2. Bare brokers extol base wares. Fol. 10 pag. 2. Boniface the Pope caused Pope john's eyes to be put out. Fol. 20. pag. 1. Bishop's dealings not liked of S. Barnard. Fol. 21. pag. 2. Better to have honesty for nothing at home: than to pay decree for knavery at Rome. Folly 29. pag. 1. Bread, the body of Christ, & his soul and Godhead is there truly & substantially if Jesuits swear truly. Fol. 5. pag. 2. Book, promised that shall show how falsely jesuits are for sworn. Fol. 6. pag. 2. Boasting of the name of jesus 〈◊〉 not serve their turn. Fol. 8. pa. 1. Berry vicar of Aylsham a cruel. papist died suddenly with a great groan. Fol. 9 pag. 1. balaan's wickedness made not the prophets religion false. Foe 18. pa. 1. Boasting learned papists, like to the proud learned pharisees. Fol. 25. pag. 2. Because the pope would not belike unto Christ, therefore he is loath to be humble & meek. Fol. 33. pag. 1. Blessings of the pope fall 〈◊〉, but cannot go upward. fol. 37. pa. 2 Blessings of a blind Pope have no virtue. Fol. 37. pag. 2. Book may be a witness, if dust may be a 〈◊〉. fol. 52. pag. 2 Baptista Mantuanus extolleth Rome out of measure fol. 57 pag. 2 Burning and killing, are the chiefest arguments that the papists have to confute withal. fol. 74. pag. 1 Better to be an English doctor, than a latin dolt. fol. 74 pag. 2 Book nay be aswell without parts as a jesuite without a name. fol. 73. pag. 1 Book most decestable in Italian rhyme. fol. 60. pag. 1 Better to devise a lie then to come without. fol. 86. pag. 1 Burton bailiff of Crowland died strangely. fol. 90. pag. 2. fo. 91. 1 Best to suffer the jesuits to gain and win, lest we lose all our honest, wise, and noble minds of England fol. 98. 2 Beginning of the book forgotten when the last end was a writing. fol. 97 pag. 2 C 'Cause why the discovery was written against master Nicols. fol. 12. pag. 2 Conquest of the pope in Ireland not great. fol. 15. pag. 1 Church of Rome, which way a mother. fol. 15. pag. 1 Children of the mother of Rome, the devils bastards. fol. 16. pag. 1 Children of the devil are not tellers of truth. fol. 17. pag. 1 children's 〈◊〉 found in a Pope's pond, showeth the chastity of Popish Prelates. fo. 23. pag. 1 Christ's Disciples departing from Christ, made not Christ's religion false. fol. 25. pag 1 Christians are accursed by jesuits for professing God's word. fol. 6. pa. 1 Christ will 〈◊〉 uprightly with them that deal preposterously with him. fol. 27. pag. 2 Council of Florence teacheth who go to heaven, hell, and purgatory. fol. 35. pag 1. Controller of two or three lines of 〈◊〉, overseen in one English word. fol. 32. pag. 1 Christ aswell worthy to be kneeled unto as the Pope. fol. 36. pag. 1 Christ went on foot in as great a throng as the Pope, and was not carried on men's shoulders. fol. 37 pag. 1 Christ road but one day in all his life, and that was on an Ass, not on men. fol. 37. pag. 1 Christ helped the blind and lame 〈◊〉 out riding on men's backs, which did as much good as the Pope's blessings. fol. 37. pag. 1 Christ bade the Apostles go and preach, but he did not bid the pope ride on men to bless the people, fol 37. 2 Church of Rome ought to dissemble whoredom. fol. 40 pag. 2 Civil magistrates may permit whore. doom without fault. fol. 41. pag. 2 Christ and S. Paul brought forth to maintain the Pope's stews. fol. 44. pag. 1 Christ much beholden to the Pope's jesuite, for bringing him as a witness, for upholding of whoredom fol. 44. pag. 2 Christ will not bolster whoredom now being in heaven, that abhorred it being on earth. fol. 45. pag. 1 Charitable deeds commendable, so that they be not done as meriting works. fol. 46. pag. 2 Christ need not have been whipped, if our own whippings might put away our sins. fol. 47 pag. 2 Christ's old spouse, the Church of Rome, cannot lack wit, fol. 49. pag. 1 Cause, why the book called a Persuasion from papistry was so entitled. fol. 53. pag. 1 Christian hath taken a jesuite napping. fol. 54. pag. 1 Christian describeth his estate & calling to a jesuite, because the jesuite as yet hath not learned it out. fol. 55 pag 2 Calling of a christian passeth all earthly callings. fol. 56. pag. 1 Cause, that the jesuits are no true subjects. fol. 61. pag. 1 Commendation of music. fol. 62. pa. 2 Children 〈◊〉 & laughing in their sleep. fol. 63. pag. 2 〈◊〉 & discords of music compared with the aspects of the planets. fol. 63. 2 Coggers & foysters of false 〈◊〉 thrive not by their trade. 69. pag. 1 Christ marveled at the 〈◊〉 faith not at his learning. fo. 75. p. 2 Christ said, Oye of little faith, not O ye of little learning. fol. 75. pag. 2 Christ is to be credited in citing the Prophets without further search. fol. 77. pag. 1 Christ and his Apostles words were as true in their life time, as they be now. fol. 77. pag. 2 Christians lies without limitation, whereby they cannot be found. fol. 78. pag. 1 Christian sufficiently warned for using persuasion in steed of disuaston. fol 78. pag. 2 Christ never took upon him to dispense with the word of God as the Pope doth, fol. 80. pag. 2 Christ learned judas his religion, but the Devil did teach him his treason fol. 18 pag. 1 Christ's doctrine was not false, though he converted no Priests. fol. 28. pag. 1 Christ and the pope have one judgement seat. fol. 83. 1 Christian confuteth by writing, jesuite by thinking. fol 90 pag. 2 Cutting of beards cannot prevail against God's determination. fol. 91. pag 2 Christ 〈◊〉 his 〈◊〉, but they did not kiss Christ's 〈◊〉. fol. 93. pag. 1 D DEsperate and doleful deaths of persecuting Papists. fol. 10. pag. 1 Doctors of the Pope wrote things more meet for swine than for men fol. 13. pag. 1 Defence of a silly grammarian fol. 12. pag. 1 Devil the fittest husband for the mother of Rome. fol 15. pag. 2 Doctrine must not be allowed by deeds, but deeds by doctrine. fol. 19 pag. 1 Detestable licence granted by Pope Sextus. fol 21. pag. 2 Devilish head cannot have a godly body. fol. 21. pag. 2 〈◊〉 of Priests with women must be counted for holiness. fol. 23. pag. 1 Detesters of a man's doctrine, care not much for his name fol. 7. pa. 1 Doctrine of jesuits destroyed with their own darts. fol. 10. pag. 2 Derided for using a P. fol. 27. pag. 2 Discoverer hath not gained much by discovering M. Nicols progress. fol. 31. pag. 2 Desperation of M. Nicols uncertain, for that he is yet alive. fol. 31. pa. 2 Doubtful whether the Angel that keepeth Paradise, would let the Pope's souls in and out. fol. 35. pag 2 Doubtful whether the devils that are keepers of the Pope's Purgatory 〈◊〉 let the souls out of purgatory if they were once in. fol. 35. pag. 2 Defence of the pope's stews. fo. 40. p. 1 Devout Romans whip themselves for their sins. fol 46. pag. 2. 〈◊〉 seldom or never used. f. 53. p. 2 Daniel was of no great estate or 〈◊〉 the confounded the wicked judges. fol. 56. pag. 1 Difference between papists music, and our music. fol. 61. pag. 2. Denton that could not burn in Christ's cause, was burned in a worse cause. fol. 94. pag. 1. Dale a promoting papist was eaten with lise. fol. 94, pag. 1. Doccor Whittington as he came from the burning of a godly woman that he condemned, was in a great throng of people killed by a Bull, & none other hurt but he. fol. 95. pa. 2 96. 1. Definitive sentence of a jesuite. fol. 98. pag. 2. E Evil success of jesuits. Fol. 4. pag. 1. Evil luck that M Nicols slandered so many as he did. fol. 13. pa. 1. English ministers slandered without proof fol. 17. pag. 1. English men that are true to the pope are false to the Queen. fol. 24. pag 1. Evil ends of papists. fol. 9 pag. 1. Exercise at Rome, to draw lots for Saints to be their protectors. fol. 38 pag. 1. English rhymers no more to be discommended than latin rhymers. fol. 59 pag 2. Enemy of science, ignorance. fol. 61. pag 2. Excellent effects of 〈◊〉. fol. 62. pag. 2. 〈◊〉 of S. Peter are worth the reading, though they were written by a 〈◊〉. fol. 64. pag. 2. Eloquent refused, and yielded up to the owner. fol. 68, pag. 1. Easy thing with chopping and changing of words, to make wisemen's writings seem foolish. fol. 72. pa. 2 Excuse, for that the book 〈◊〉 persuasion from papistry, 〈◊〉 parts. fol 73. pag. 1. English Doctors have neither wit nor learing, or else a jesuite is proved a 〈◊〉. fol. 75 pag 1. Every authority is not taken out of the Original work. fol. 77. pa. 1. Ambassadors of Cicilia said to the pope, holy father that takest away the sins of the world. fol. 81 pa. 2 English enemies described. fol. 88 89. pag. 1. Earl of Wiltshire's dog kissed the pope's foot. fol. 92. pag. 1. F FAith and following of the doctrine of jesus is it that will serve, 〈◊〉 not the naming of jesus fol. 8. pag 1. Fools follow Preachers in evil living 18 pag 2. Few priests lived without the 〈◊〉 of fornication, if the note of the pope's decree be true fol. 22. pag 1. false meaning finely smoothed. fol. 31. pag. 1. Friar Ticell could pardon one if he had gotten our Lady with child. fol. 33. pag, 2. False Simile for whoredom though it have a 〈◊〉 show. fol. 39 pa. 2. Forbidding of marriage, & suffering the Stews, is no good 〈◊〉 to suppress whoredom. fol. 46 pa 1 Fault found because a persuasion from papistry is not divided into parts fol. 73. pag. 1. G GOdly Pope that said he would make men martyrs, or else deny their faith. fol. 21. pa 1. God beholdeth the lowly, not the learned. fol. 25 pag 1. Great diversity between the Pope and Christ. fol. 26 pag. 2. Good Preachers make mountains of mowlhilles: but wicsted papists make mowlhilles of mountains. fol. 27. pag. 1. God bestoweth not his blessings on heretics. fol. 3. pag. 2. God, none of the romish mother's husband. fol. 15. pag. 2. Great learning without Christ is nothing. fol. 25 pag. 1. God's word is the candle that findeth out the spiritual thief. fol. 28. pa. 2. Goliath bragged, not little David. fol 30 pag. 2. Gravity and state of the pope's place, maketh the pope's preachers go away without thanks. fol. 32. pa. 2. Great difference between the pope's Consistory and his chair. fol. 32. pag. 2 Ground under the pope's table allowed for dogs and Dukes. fol. 〈◊〉. pag. 1 God nor Christ doth 〈◊〉 the pope to ride on men's backs to bless the people. fol. 37. pag 2 God doth tolerate sinners, therefore the pope may suffer whoredom. fol 42. pag. 1 God and the pope far unlike in tolerating of 〈◊〉 fol. 42. pag. 2 God taketh no money for tolerating sinners, as the pope doth for suffering of whoredom. fol. 43. pag. 1 Gaudium latin for a barn. fol. 54. pa. 2 Great oversight in a jesuite. fol. 58. pag. 1 Good medicines are not to be despised, because the herbs that make them are not gathered where they first grew. fol. 77. pag. 1 God for biddeth swearing every day, but appointeth no day for fasting. fol. 84. pag. 1 God's judgement is changed, when the Church of Rome hath changed her judgement. fol. 85 pag. 2 Gods miracle, not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fol 91. pag. 1. H HOrrible oath of the jesuits. fol. 5. pag. 2 Hard to prove, that the mother of Rome, aught to have children in England fol. 15. pag. 1 Holy pope, that called for the 〈◊〉 when he qlaied at dise. fol. 20 pag. 1 Hildebrand a hellish pope. fol. 20. pa. 1 Happy are the sheep that Christ doth bear, but the goats are unhappy that bear the pope. fol. 27. pag. 1 Honesty is not so scarce in England, that it must be fetched at Rome. fol 29. pag 1 Hell appointed for liars. fol. 12 pa. 2 〈◊〉 of the pope's, that will deny that S. 〈◊〉 had two bodies. fol 14 pa. 1 Hildebrand the pope, threw Christ's body into the fire and burned it, or else jesuits are for sworn. fol, 21. pag. 1 Hildebrand being a Cardinal smote the pope with his fist. fol 20 pa. 2 Holy Church it must needs be, that was governed by 〈◊〉, cooks, ostler's and boys. fol. 33. pag. 2 Hildebrand before he was pope, poisoned six pope's. fol. 20. pag. 2 He that hath not a wife, aught to 〈◊〉 a concubine. fol. 40. pag. 2 Holy water will chase away mice. fol. 61. pag. 2 How many semebreeves are a 〈◊〉 in an hour. fol 63 pag. 2 Holy pope that said he sought not the health of souls, but their destruction. fol. 21. pag. 1 He that accuseth the pope, sinneth angainst the holy ghost. fol. 82. pa. 1 heresy, for any not to hold his 〈◊〉 on the pope. fol 92. pag. 1 He that setteth a Ring before a priest, setteth the creature before the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fol. 92. pag. 2. 〈◊〉 the Pope was angry with the Emperor for holding the left styrop in steed of the right. fol. 92 pag. 2. I jesuits sprung up not fifitie years since. fol. 3, pag. 2. jesuits swear to keep the pope's law until their last gasp. fo. 5. pa. 2 〈◊〉 mad and bewitched. fol. 6. pag. 1 jesuits that hate the doctrine of jesus, cannot love his name. fol. 7. pag. 1 john de Roma, a lying witness by his evil end. fol. 8. pag. 2 judas was taught by the Devil too be a traitor, not by his religion. fol. 18 pag. 1 Infamous Acts of English Preachers and ministers, are returned to the Romish Priests. fo. 24. p. 1 Important learned Papists like to that proud Pharisees. fol. 25. pag. 2 jews bragged of Abraham, but for all that the Devil was their father. fol. 28. pag. 2 〈◊〉 Layola a Spaniard, the first founder of jesuits. fol. 3. pag. 2 jesuits admit the scripture no sense nor meaning, but that the Church of Rome doth allow. fol. 5. pag. 2. jesuits swear that there are five Sacraments more, than the Scriptures do allow. fol. 5. pag. 2 jesuits swear that the Church of Rome is the mother and mistress of all Churches. fol. 6. pag. 1 jesuits swear obedience to the Bishop of Rome. fol. 6. pag. 1 jesuits proved devilish deceivers far worse than bare brokers. fol. 11 pag. 1 Images are to be honoured and worshipped, if jesuits swear truly. fol. 6. pag. 1 jesuits swear to maintain 〈◊〉 and traitrie fol. 34. pag. 1 jesuits like better of their Saints, than the Heathen do on their gods. fol. 38. pag. 2 jesuits have a deeper consideration on men's corruption then Saint Paul. fol 44. pag. 1 jesuite hath waded deep, in maintaining the Pope's Stews. fol. 44. pag. 1 〈◊〉 to make the Pope honest 〈◊〉 make Christ unhonest. fol. 45. pag. 1 jesuits instructed of the Devil to confound themselves. fol. 45. pag. 2 jews had committed 〈◊〉 sin, if they had not nailed Christ to the Crosse. fol. 49. pag. 1 jesuite deeply learned in knowing of a man's thought. fol. 53. pag. 1 jesuite 〈◊〉 another in that wherein he offendeth himself. fol 53. pag. 1 jesuite wrapped fast in his own snare. fol. 54. pag. 1 jesuite hath gained but little for the controlling of the title of a book. fol. 55. pag. 1 jesuits cannot commend a good protestant, nor dispraise an evil papist. fol. 56. pag. 2 jesuite discommendeth one for rhyming (that rhymed never a whit) with nothing but rhyme. 58. pag. 1 jesuitrie none of the seven. liberal Sciences. fol, 62. pag. 1 jesuits, wherein contrary to 〈◊〉. fol. 62. pag. 2 jesuits manifestly reproved for falsifying of words. fol. 66. pag. 2 jesuite in name, but like judas in dealing. fol. 67. pag. 2 jesuits can write truly when it will serve their turn. fol. 69. pag. 1 jesuite careless what he speaketh. fol. 76. pag. 2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, within limitation so 〈◊〉, that they are quickly spied. fol. 78. pag. 2 jesuite falsifieth words & then committeth them to the Reader to confute. fol. 79. pag. 1 jesuite, when he hath falsified words and sentences, than he calleth them Lupton's charitable doctrine. fol. 78. pag. 2 jesuite would prove the Christian a liar if he could fol. 80. pag. 1 jesuits need not care what sins they commit. fol. 80. pag. 2 jesuite hath 〈◊〉 himself thorough with Solomon's shaft. fol. 9 pag. 2 jesuits good sooth is not a sufficient proof of M. Nicols desperation. fol. 31. pag. 2 jesuite cannot conceive, how the Pope should give his Preachers thanks. fol. 32. pag. 2 jesuite doth tell who go to Purgatorse if we may believe them. fol. 34. pag. 1 jesuit hath an advantage of the Christian. fol. pag. 2 jesuite greatly over seen. fol. 58. pag. 1 jesuite manifestly proved a liar and a 〈◊〉 of words. fol. 82. pag. 2 jesuite chargeth the Christian with that he never wrote. fol. 83. pag. 1 jesuite doth cull out 〈◊〉 words, and joineth them far of with other that touch nothing that matter. fol. 84. pag. 2 jesuite defaceth & displaceth words, but never doth reprove nor confute them. fol. 84. pag. 2 jesuite can leap further backward than forward. fol. 85. pag. 1 jesuite lost his labour in leaping so far backward. fol. 86. pag. 1 jesuit leapeth further backward than he did before. fol. 87. pag. 2 jesuite hath falsely belied the Christian, and hath fathered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 on him. fol. 88 pag. 1 jesuit displaceth and 〈◊〉 words, but reproveth not, nor confuteth any word. fol. 89. pag. 2 jesuite hath taken a very evil 〈◊〉. fol. 90. pag. 1 jesuite put to his shift. fol. 90. pa. 2 jesuite hath showed his 〈◊〉 in leaping backward. fol. 91. pag. 2 jesuits miracle. fol. 93. pag. 2 jesuite hath 〈◊〉 his race unchristianly, and hath ended arrogantly & falsely. fol. 98. pag. 2 If thieves be true, then jesuits have the truth. fol. 28. pag. 2 If jesus be above all names, than his doctrine is above all doctrines. fol. 7. pag. 1 If jesuits loved the name of jesus, they would not swear to renounce his doctrine fol. 7. pag. 1 If a Priest embrace a woman, we must judge he doth bless her. fol. 23. pag. 1 It was happy that M. Nicols was not found in the street. fol 26. p. 2 If the Pope can do what God can do, than he may do whatsoever Christ did. fol. 29. pag. 1 If sire might have purged sins, than Christ's blood should never have purged them. fol. 34. pag. 2 If Christ cannot 〈◊〉 us, his servants the Saints are scant able to do it. fol. 38 pag. 2 If sins be whipped away before death, than what sins are left for that mass to release 〈◊〉 death. fol. 48, pag. 2 If Priests can make Christ to be in many places, than the Pope might make S. device to be in two places. fol. 49. pag 2 K Known Protestants in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 unknown papists. fol. 2. pag. 1 Kingdom of God standeth not in contention of talk but in 〈◊〉 of faith. fol. 26. pag 1 King Edward's means better than all the pope's means for suppressing of whoredom. fol. 46. pag. 1 King David a Musician. fol. 61. pag. 2 King David drove out a Devil out of a man by music. fol. 61. pa. 2 King josias was very bold to burn the priests that were so far above him as he was above a beast. fol. 92 pag. 2 L LAy men must judge that priests do bless women when they embrace them. fol. 23 〈◊〉. 1 Law of jesus, clcane left out in the jesuits oath. fol. 6. pag. 1 Lying witnesses tried by their evil ends fol. 9 pag. 1 learned pope, that wrote 〈◊〉 for fiat. fol. 13. pag. 1 Lay men's kissing and priests kissing of women work contrary effects. fol. 23. pag. 1. Less harm to be unlearned than to be wilful fol 25. pa. 2 Learned men's writings but fables, if they do not agree with god's word. fol. 35. pag. 1 Lots for the Saints at Rome last but for a month fol. 38. pag 1 Labour, the right remedy to expel hunger fol 40 pag. 2. Leticia, latin for fire. fol. 54. pag 2. Latin verses for english rhyme. fol. 57 pag. 2 Learning, what it is. fol. 74. pag. 2 Learned men's writings are as well to be brought for authorities in their life, as a thousand years after their deaths fol 77. pag. 2 lupton's lies turned into the untruths of a jesuit. fol 80 pag. 2 Liar that telleth a true thing untruly. fol. 81. pag. 1 Lustily leapt a of jesuit. fol. 83. pa. 2 Lawful for him that hath no wife, in steed of her to have a concubine. fol 85. pag. 1 M MInister proved a 〈◊〉 name. fol. 2. pag. 2 M. Nicols departing from the pope hath decayed his learning. fol. 11 pa. 2 Mother of Rome a harlot. fol. 15. pag. 2 Mother of room may bear jesuits, but no Christians fol. 16. pag. 1 manifest untruth fol. 16. pag. 2 Mischievous mother that murdereth her children. fol. 16. 2 Mother of Rome feedeth her children as oxen are fed. fol. 16. 2 Ministers have an 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 fol. 18. pag. 1 Mother of Rome had a harlot to her head. fol. 19 pag. 2 Ministers of England never touched with such infamy. fol. 19 pa. 2 Minister and preachers of England have not their ponds full of children's skulls. fol. 〈◊〉. pag. 2. M. Nicols not worth the taking up in the street. fol. 26. pag. 1 Many go to the pope more for his treasure then for truth. fol. 29. pag. 1 Ministers in Chrysostom's time. fol. 3. pag. 1 M. Nicols allowed to be a secly grammarian. fol. 12 pag. 1 M. Nicols may 〈◊〉 in learning with pope Innocent fol. 12. pag 2 Mother of Rome proved a whore. fol. 15. pag. 2 Mother of Rome, the cruelest of all other mothers. fol. 16. pag. 1 Mountains made 〈◊〉. fol. 27. pag. 1 Master Nicols a little man. fol. 30. pag. 1 〈◊〉 must have priests, but Christ's Communion may be without 〈◊〉. fol. 27, pag. 2 M. Ncols course from Wales to England, and so to Rome, & from thence to the pulpit in the Tower of London. fol. 30. pag. 1 More credit for M. Nicols to go from Rome to the Tower to preach God's word: then for Campion & other to be led from the Tower to Tyburn to be hanged for treason. so. 30, pag. 2 M. Nicols was borne at Cowbrige in Wales because he traveled to Rome, & from thence to the tower of London. fol. 32, pag. 1 M. Nicols not so little & base as he seemeth, that made such a journey before he was borne. fol. 32. pag. 1 ministery sufficient to excuse dishonesty fol. 33. pag. 1 Mist cast over the simple Readers eyes, that the Pope doth not evil in suffering the Stews. fol. 39 pag. 2 Money sufficient to permit whores to dwell in Rome, but not professors of God's word. fol. 40. pag. 1 Marriage, remedy to avoid whoredom. fol. 41. pag. 2 Mark what inconvenience is avoided, through permitting of that pope's stews. fol. 45. pag. 2 Masses, not to be permitted, for that they are injurious to the passion of Christ fol 46. pag 2 〈◊〉 thursday, the Romans good thursday. fol. 47. pag. 2 Mark how the Papists have been persecuted. fol. 50. pag. 2 Masick may better be without rhyming, than jesuitrie without papistry. fol. 60. pag. 2 Music, effect of rhyming. fol. 61. pa. 1 More honest Musicians in England: than jesuits in or out of England. fol. 61. pag. 1 Music better than holy water. fol. 61. pag. 2 Music, and musical instruments commended of King David. fol. 62. pag. 1 Music, one of the four mathematical sciences. fol. 62. pag. 1 Music is a cause of entering of godly doctrine into us. fol. 63. pag. 1. Music agreeth with Astronomy. fol 63. pag. 2 Motions of the heavenly signs may be found out by music. fol. 63. pag. 2 More good wished by a Christian to this his Country, than ever any jesuite did perform. fol. 65 pag. 2 Moon inferior to the Sun, therefore the Emperor is inferior to that pope. fol. 72. pag. 1 Miracle more likely, than that of the Earl of Wiltshire's dog. fol 95. pag. 1 Marvel that the Pope did not send the Angels, being at his commandment to destroy the Queen's power in Ireland. fol. 15. pag. 1 Manifest jye, that the Acts & monuments, (called the book of martyrs) is in all Churches of England's. fol. 97. pag. 1 N NO where the fittest place for a nameless person fol. 1. pag. 1 Never better blest than since the pope cursed us. fol. pag. 2 Nagereta described a holy Pope. fol. 21. pag. 1 None can be saved without they believe as the Church of Rome doth will and command, and according to the jesuits oath. fol. 6. pag. 1 Not one word of the following of the law of jesus in the jesuits oath. fol. 6. 1. No matter whether they that shallbe Popes be learned or not. fol. 13. pag. 2 Nothing is to be allowed but that the Pope alloweth. fol. 13. pag. 2 None may say to the pope, why do ye thus. fol. 13. pag. 2 No base conquest to 〈◊〉 a soul from the Dluell. fol. 15. pag. 1 No pride in the pope for the people to bear him to be honoured. fol. 37. pag. 1 No heinous offence for the pope and Catholic princes to keep stews. fol. 40. pag. 1 No difference whether a woman lie with her lover or with her husband. fol. 40. pag. 2 Not one word confuted, nor any one lie proved, in 40. sheets of paper, and yet for all that they must go for 〈◊〉 lies. fol. 52. pag. 2 No matter where the herbs grew, so that the medicine be made with the right herbs. fol. 77. pag. 2 No matter, out of what book authorities are cited, so that they be the right words of the author. fol. 77. pag. 2 Nothing is taken for Christ's commandment, unless it be 〈◊〉 by the church of Rome. fol. 85. pag. 2 Never an honest, virtuous, learned, wise, modest, noble nor gentle mind in England, 〈◊〉 such as think the jesuits religion is true and their cause good. fol. 98. pag. 1 O Overtumbled with their own trips. 13. pag. 2 One priest may be converted though a jesuite doth not know of it. fol. 28. pag. 1 Oversight of the pope, that biddeth not his masters to dinner that preach before him. fol. 32. pag. 2 Occasion of the Pope's riding in his chair. fol. 36. pag. 2 Owl, the pope's holy ghost. fo. 49. p. 2 One that hath 〈◊〉 once, careth not how often he playeth the thief. fol. 67. pag. 2 Our Lord God the Pope. fo. 〈◊〉. p. 1 〈◊〉 determined, and 〈◊〉 papists, proved the worst enemies to England of all other English enemies. fol. 88 pag. 1. 2 One of the pope's Cardinal's 〈◊〉 out lied the Christian. fol. 92. pag. 2 P property of a coward. fol. 2. pa. 1 Paul was made Minister by Christ out of heaven. fol. 1. pag. 1 Pope the Saviour of the jesuits. 〈◊〉. 4. pag. 2 Papists are lying witnesses by their own argument. fol. 8. pag. 2 〈◊〉 Priests are 〈◊〉 deceivers. fol. 11. pag. 1 Popish priests can make vile things precious. fol. 11. pag. 2 Pape julius the second, not so good 〈◊〉 grammarian as M. Nicols fol. 〈◊〉 pag. 1 Popes ignorant in grammar. fol. 13. pag. 1 Pope hath all laws in his bosom. 〈◊〉. 13. pag. 2 Pope proved a dolt. fol. 14 pag. 2 Papists cannot live well seem they never so holy. fol. 18. pag. 1 Papists deal preposterously. fol. 19 pag. 1 Pope, passing all our preachers in infaunous Acts. fol. 19 pag. 2 Priests proved fornicators by the pope's gloss or notes of his own law. 22. pag. 1 Priesses may not be deposed for fornication. fo. 22. pag. 1 Pretty rule of Popes, for whoredom. fol. 22. pag 2 Perverted that are won to God's word. fol. 27. pag. 2 Papists spiritual thieves. fo. 28. p. 〈◊〉 Papists will have truth if bragging will get it. fol. 28. pag. 2 Pope changeth his name. fol. 1. pag. 2 Pardons left us by Christ, or else jesuits are for 〈◊〉. fol. 6. pag. 1 Purgatory proved no where by their own argument. 36. pag. 1 Pope must be seen when he blesseth the people, & therefore he is borne on men's shoulders. fol. 36. pag. 2 Pope's blessings will do no good, unless the Pope be aloft, and above the people. fol. 37. pag. 2 Payment of money to the pope, is a punishment for whoredom. fol. 39 pag. 1 Priests compelled to pay tribute for concubines, though they would live without them. fol. 41. pag. 1 Pope in a manner can do all that God can do. fol. 42. pag. 1 Pope were best to let God alone in his doings, lest he climb as an angel, & fall as a Devil. fol. 43. p. 2 Persecutions had need begin before they be in the midst. fol. 50 pag. 1 Pope 〈◊〉 Agnus Dei, can pull men out of the water and save men from drowning. fol. 60. pag. 1 Papists extreme enemies to England because the Queen's Majesty was king Henry's daughter, & king Edward's sister. fol. 71. pa. 2 Peter paid tribute money, therefore the pope hath authority over the whole church of God. fol. 72. pa. 1 Peter Crabs arguments for proving the pope's authority. fol. 72 pag. 1 Persuasion from papistry disdainfully called a weighty work. fol. 50. pag. 1 Persuasion from papistry disgraced because of the title fol. 53. pag. 1 Priests barn burned, because he had forgot his own latin. fol. 55. p. 1 Painting, no discredit to the Gospel or the acts of the Apostles, written by S. Luke. fol. 64. pag. 2 Papists cry upon Q. Mary, and protestants cry upon Q. Elizabeth. fo. 98. pag. 1 Pope may dispense against the law of God, the law of nature, against Saint Paul, the new testament & all the commandments. fo. 79. p. 〈◊〉 Pope, an other God on the earth. fol. 80. pag. 1 Popish Bishop did run mad. fo. 9 p. 〈◊〉 Paradise better for the Pope to have claimed power over than Purgatory. fol. 35. pag. 2 Pope, proudest of all other, though he be called the servant of God's servants. fol. 81. pag. 1. 2 Pope called the Lion of the tribe of juda. 81. pag. 2 Pope is the light that is come into the world. fol. 81. pag. 2 Popes, antichrists, for that they take upon them that which is only due unto God. fol. 82. pag. 2 Pope may make and mar laws at his pleasure. fol. 14. pag. 1 Pope hath an heavenly judgement. fo. 13. pag. 2 Pope is doctor of both laws by authority, not by knowledge. fo. 13. p. 2 Popes cannot err or lie though they say S. Device had one body in germanie, & another in France. fo. 14. pag. 2 Preachers of gods word have a great advantage of papists. fol. 18 pa. 1 Pope's pond full of children's might be skulls. fol. 23. pag. 1 Pope's purse esteemed more of rovers than poverty. fol. 29. pag. 1 Popes jesuits can make impossible causes. fol. 32 pag. 1 Pope's pride is published in magnifying his majesty. fol. 32. pag. 2 Preachers may hear that pope's 〈◊〉 as well as the pope may hear the preacher, unless that pope's be always hearse, or that preachers deaf. fo. 32. p. 2 Pope doth not use to thank any that speaketh before him. fol. 32. pag. 2 Pope's preachers are proved that pope's masters. fol. 32. pag. 2 Poor preacher may not dine with 〈◊〉 proud pope. fol. 33. pag. 1 Priesthood, sufficiet to excuse whoredume in Rome. fol. 33. pag. 2 Pope 〈◊〉 the sift, gave licence to one to marry his own sister. fol. 33. pag. 2 Pope's pardons delicate sauces to procure 〈◊〉. fol 34. pag. 1 Pope had more wit than Solomon. fol. 49. pag. 2 Pope can do more than God can do. fol. 83. pag. 1 Pope's law must needs be holy, that alloweth Priests to have 〈◊〉 and forbiddeth them to have wives. fol. 85. pag. 1 Popes fast, is quite contrary to Christ's fast. fol. 87. pag. 1 Pope 〈◊〉 bestow the Empire on whom he list. fol. 92. pag. 1 Pope doth what him 〈◊〉, though it be unlawful, and is more than a God. fol. 92. pag 1 Priests are as much above a king, as a king is above a beast. fol. 92 pa. 2 Poor pope, that had no Chamber. 〈◊〉 to keep out dogs. fol 93. pag. 1 Pope's foot, more meet to 〈◊〉 bitten of dogs than to be kissed of men. fol. 93 pag. 1 Parson of 〈◊〉 in Kent, died 〈◊〉 and strangely fol. 94. pag. 1 Q Queen's Majesty sendeth none to Rome to stir sedition against the pope, as he sendeth by there to seek the destruction of her Grace. fol. 24. pag. 1. Queen elizabeth's power as great as was the power of Queen Mary. fol. 69. pag. 2. fol. 70. pa. 1. 2 R Remedy for a mischiefs. fol. 17. pag. 2 Returning of people, is not the way to try truth fol 24. pag. 2 Religion of the Pope dependeth 〈◊〉 priests. fol. 27. pag. 2 Romish honesty will prove English treason. fol. 29. pag. 1 Relics of Saints are to be worshipped, if 〈◊〉 be not for sworn. fol. 6. pag. 1 Rockwoods' desperate death, that 〈◊〉 he was damned fol. 10. pag. 2 Robbing of Churches, not so evil as to reason of the Pope's doings. fol. 13. pag. 2 Reason must be allowed for the honouring of the Pope. fol. 36. pag. 1 Reason must be 〈◊〉 to make Christ of a Cake fol 36. pag. 1 Reason, why the pope doth ride on men and not on a horse. fol. 36. pag. 2 Reasons why the Pope ought not to ride on men. fol. 37. pag. 1 Romish lotdrawers may happen on a Satanist in steed of a Saint. fol. 38. pag. 2 Romans ashamed in whipping themselves, for that they cover their faces, because they would not be known. fol. 47. pag. 2 Romans are fools, or their doctrine is false. fol. 48. pag. 2 Rhyming, cause of Music. fol. 58. pag. 1 Reason, that they that writ eloquently, should have the eloquence. fol. 68 pag. 1 Religion of the Gospel must seem to be false, because it converteth no priests. 27. pag. 2 S SOddan and doleful death of a persecuting Papist. fol. 9 1 sheeps skin counted better than a man's hand fol. 11. pag 2 Saint Device had two bodies at once by the Pope's judgement. fol. 14. pag. 1 Similitude very necessary. fol. 18. pag. 2 Sore punishment, to make women 〈◊〉 kissing of Priests. fol. 22. pag. 2 swearers to maintain falsehood, will not stick to lie when they swear not at all. fol. 26 pag. 1 Success of jesuits fol. 4. pag. 1 Souls in Purgatory are relieved by prayers, if jesuits may be trusted by their oath. fol. 5. pag. 2 Saints are to be honoured and called upon, & they pray for us, if we may believe jesuits by their oath. fol. 6. pag. 1 Saint Peter no good proctor for the Pope. fol. 7. pag. 2 Sudden change. fol. 12. pag. 2 Sertus the Pope gave licence to a Cardinal and all his family to commit most detestable sin. fol. 21. pag. 2 Stately servant that will not once give his master thanks. fol. 32. pag. 2 Saint Augustine's text brought for proving of Purgatory that speaketh not of it. fol. 34 pag. 2 Simple Reader that will believe S. Augustine, if he be contrary to Christ. fol. 35 pag. 1 Saint Augustine brought for proving of Purgatory, but he himself saith he knoweth no such place. fol. 35. pag. 1 Saints are protectors, as the Pope is Christ's vicar. fol. 39 pag. 1 Stews of the pope defended. fol. 40. pag 1 Sin cannot be suffered without fault by God's law. fol. 41. pag. 2 Saint Paul did forget the Romans whipping devotion in his Epistle to the Romans. fol 47 pag. 1 Struckeu down with their own staff. fol. 48. pag. 1 Scripture compared unto and called dead ink, dumb judges, black Gospel, inken divinity, and a nose of ware. fol 51. pag. 2. fo. 52. pa. 1 Scholar controlled of a Priest for speaking true Latin. fol. 54. pa. 1 Sapientia Latin for a Priest. fol. 54. pag. 2 S. Matthewes Gospel is not to be 〈◊〉, because it was written by a Tole gatherer. fol. 64. pag. 2 Saint Paul's Epistles are not to be discredited, because they were written by a Tentmaker. fol. 64. pag. 2 Strange kind of confuting invented by a jesuite. fol. 68 pag. 1 Saint Paul not eloquent. fol. 68 pag. 2 Shame to profess such 〈◊〉 as an unlearned man can reprove. fol. 74 pag. 1 Small learning of a Christian will convince the great learning of a jesuite. fol. 75. pag. 1 Semebreefs, how many are a 〈◊〉 in an hour. fol. 63. pag. 2 Saint Augustine could not find by the scripture on what days to fast. fol. 83. pag. 2 Saint Augustin is not to be believed, unless he agree with God's 〈◊〉. fol. 84. pag. 1 Stephen Gardiner Bishop of 〈◊〉 denied with Peter, but never repent with Peter. fol. 94. pag. 2 〈◊〉 servant was strucken mad at the burning of James Abbas, & said he was 〈◊〉. fol 94. pa. 2 T thieves know where to 〈◊〉 one another. fol. 1. pag. 1 Tertes of jesuits compared to Glow-worms. fol. 10. pag. 2 To conquer the devil is no base conquest. fol. 15. pag. 1 Two Cardinals slain in adultery at the pope's holy council of 〈◊〉. fol. 21. pag. 2 Truth driveth the learned men out of England to the pope. fo. 26 p. 1 Truth of unlearned 〈◊〉 confound learned philosophers. fol. 26. pag. 1 Truth, honesty, and poverty make our Ministers to fly so fast to the pope's part. fol. 28. pag. 2 Truth must be learned of Christ. fol 28. pag. 2 Threaped kindness. fol. 29. pag. 1. Tokens of papistical honesty. fo. 30. pag. 1 Tyborue tippets given to the pope's priests. fol. 30. pag. 1 They make but a sorry journey that go to Rome for honesty. 29. pag. 1 True witnesses known by their good end. fol. 4. pag. 1 The treason of judas made not his religion evil. fol. 18. pag. 1 Turning or returning is not the way to 〈◊〉 the truth. fol 24. pag. 2 Truth dependeth not upon priests, but good priests depend upon truth. fol. 27. pag. 2 True pity is not in them, that rejoice in the burning of their brethren, fo. 31. pag. 1 To be sorry to return unto Christ, is but a mad repentance. fol. 31. pa. 1 Trial of the 〈◊〉 and desperation of papists. fol. 31. pag. 2 The thief that never did good deed, went neither to hell, nor to purgatory, but to paradise. fol. 36. pag. 1 Thomas Becket in steed of S. Thomas the Apostle. fol. 38. pag. 2 To pay a noble for stealing xx. li will not make one leave stealing. fo. 44. pa. 1 To take money for sinning is a strange drawing from sin. fol. 46. pag. 1 They make themselves their own Christ's, that whip themselves for their sins. 48. pag. 1 They that condemned Christ to death had the holy ghost. fol 49. pag. 1 Title of the book called A persuasifrom 〈◊〉 defended fol. 55. p. 1 Tent making no discredit to Saint Paul's Epistles. fol. 64. pag. 2 True meaners will not write falsely. fol. 67. pag. 2 This book is divided into parts to please a jesuite withal. fol. 37. pa. 1 To Christ, is wit & learning enough. fol. 73. pag. 2 Truth is to be preferred before time, not time before truth. fol. 77. pa. 2 True Christians would be loath to be taken in such a trip. fol. 86. pa. 2 True fasting, taught by Christ. fol. 86. pag. 2 They that have God for their father, have not i Church of Rome for their mother. fol. 15. pag. 1 Thomas hawks that was burned for professing of the Gospel, miraculously clapped his hands over his head three times in the fire, when every one thought he had been dead. fol 96. p. 1 ● Unhappy children that have such a mother. fol. 16. pag. 1 〈◊〉 the Pope buried 〈◊〉 quick Cardinals in the Sea. fo. 23 pag. 2 Unshamefast gest. fol. 29. pag. 2 Unlearned fishers, preferred before learned Philosophers. fol. 26. pag. 1 Unlearned Christian hath confuted a learned jesuite with his own doctrine. fol. 36. pag. 1 Usury brought worth for approving the Pope's stews. fol. 45. pag. 1 Unapt argument for maintainiug the Pope's stews is overthrown. fol. 45 pag. 1. 2 Unjust dealers are glad to hide their names. fol 52. pag. 2 virtues of Pope Urbans 〈◊〉 dei, fol 60. pag. 1 〈◊〉 writer, that writeth not one sentence of his own, in that third part of 40. sheets of paper. fol. 76 pag 2 Use of jesuits to falsify and leave out, to deface the truth. fol. 86. pag. 2 Untruth so manifest that it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shadowed. fol. 97. pag. 2 W WHy the Discoverer hath covered his name. sol. 1. pag. 2 Why jesuits choose the name of jesus fo. 4. pa. 1 Why we choose our name of Christ. fol. 4. pag. 1 Which way Turks, jews, ' and 〈◊〉 may be the better for the name of jesus. fol. 7. pag. 2 Wounded with their own weapon. fol. 10. pag. 2 Woman Pope had a child. fol. 19 pag. 2 Who are they that are not overladen with honesty. fol. 29. pag. 1 Way to recover honesty lost. fol. 30. pag. 1 Wily jesuite to hide his name. fol. 1. pag. 2 Way to make jesus serve the jesuits turn. fol. 7. pag. 2 Way to make jesus save Devils. fo. 7. pag 2 Who are they that are the Pope's heretics. fol. 13. pag. 2 Will of the Pope, standeth in steed of reason. fol. 13. pag 2 Will Somers would not have given so fond a judgement as the Pope did fol. 14. pag 2 What kind of souls got to Purgatory. fol. 34. pag. 1 Woman taken in adultery, had as great occasion to kneel to Christ, as the people have to kneel to the pope. fol. 36. pag. 2 Wicked thing may be necessary and be suffered without fault if we may trust a jesuite. fol. 43. pag. 2 Whippers of themselves for their sins are great enemies to Christ fol. 47 pag. 2 Whippers of themselves for their sins, do whip themselves to the devil. fol. 48. pag. 2 Wise Pope that gave judgement that S. Device had one body in Germany and another in France. fol. 49. pag. 2 Wonderful agreement of earthly music, with heavenly Astronomy. fol. 64. pag. 1 Words in the Queen's Epistle displaced, & sentences left out to mar the meaning thereof. fol. 66. pag. 1 Words 〈◊〉 were never written. fol. 71. pag. 2 Want of learning before men, is not so evil as lack of faith before god. fol. 75 pag. 2 Words falsified manifestly by a jesuite. fol. 79. pag. 2 Words wrested and displaced. fo. 85 pag. 1 Words fathered out of a place, 〈◊〉 there are no such words to be 〈◊〉. fol. 85. pag. 2 Wise men of England think not that they have a holy mother in Rome. fol. 15. pag. 1 Words foisted in to make a miracle of the 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 dog. fol. 92. pag. 1. 2 Wise dog that could show what he meant by snatching at the Pope's great toe. fol. 93 pag. 2 Z ZAcheus got him into a tree to see Christ, but Christ got him not on men's shoulders to see 〈◊〉. fol. 37. pag. 1 FINIS. Faults escaped. IN the 3. leaf, first side and 13. line, read, about the brightness, for above the brightness. The 10. leaf 2. side. and 7. line, read, brought him to impenitency, for brought to impenitency. The 31. leaf 1. side 1. line, read, a subject to his prince, for subject to his prince. The 9 leaf, 1. side, 25. line, read, defenders thereof. The 32. leaf, 1. side, 13. line, read, horse, for horsed. The 35 leaf, 1. 〈◊〉, 30. line, for runneagates, read renegates. The 37. leaf, 2. 〈◊〉, 28. line, between meek & therefore, for a. make a: The 38. leaf, 1. side, 8. line, for on, read one. The 39 leaf, 2. side, 1. line, at, may believe you. make a full point. The 41. leaf, 2. side, 31. line, read, rogues, for rogs. The 42. leaf, 2. side, 25. line, read, God doth so tolerate. The 48. leaf, 2. side, 36. line, make a full point between devil and If. The 53. leaf, 2. side, in the margin, read, Discovery. pag. 110. The 55. leaf, 1. side, 25. line, read shame for you to forget. The 56. leaf, 2. side, 4. line, make a full point at Gospel. The 56 leaf, 31. line, between Papists and therefore, make a full point. The 59 leaf, 1. side, and last line, read, for as you would. The first leaf of Q. first side, on the top in the margin, make 61. leaf. The 64 leaf, 2. side, read Saint Luke is thought to have. The 65, leaf, 1. side, 23. line, read, but lovingly. The 67. leaf, 1. side, 13. line, read, suttill. for subtle. And in the 21. line, there read Gospel and God's word. And in the 28. line of the same side, read, Now, for that you are such. The 68 leaf, 2. side, 4 line, read, needs dispraise. The 69 leaf, 1. side, 22. line, read will gain you but little. The 72. leaf, 2. side, 24 line, read, thrust in your own. The 74. leaf, 1. side, 13. line, between judge and though make a: and in the 18 line, there, between me and which, make a comma. The 1. leaf & 1. side of U. at the top of the margin, make 77. & in U. 3. 79. The 78. leaf, 1. side, 18. line, read, whereas you say I do it. The 95. leaf, 1. side, and last line, leave out all these words, But you perceived & marvelous miracle of a man. The 95. leaf, 2. side, 14. line, read, the last miracle save one, with a Bull. The 96. leaf, 2. side, 18. line, read or that you made such haste. The 96. leaf, 2. side, last line, read got gain. The Christian against the jesuite. The first part. FOrasmuch as you an unknown jesuite I. part. and without name, have derided or rather slandered a book by me lately framed and published, with my name unto it, called A persuasion from Papistry, dedicated and exhibited to the Queen's Majesty: which you have done in your book privily printed and covertly cast abroad in corners, entitled: A discovery of I. Nicols Minister, misreported a jesuite, etc. A doubt not but herein so to defend the same, that it shall be to your reproach and discredit, yea and also to your shame (if you will be ashamed) to lie or write against the manifest truth. But you, and they of your sect have put on such unshamefast faces, that nothing can make you blush. And if I know your name aswell as your noughty nature, your person aswell as your peevish profession, and your resting place, as well as your ridiculous religion: I would not only have named you herein, but also would have sent you this answer by some trusty messenger. But seeing you have in your worthy work, neither uttered your name, nor the place where you dwell: (whereby I must needs conjecture that either you look for no answer, or 〈◊〉 not to be answered, or think it not worth the answering,) Therefore, as it was written at Athens unto the unknown God, Acts. 17. so must I now be enforced to write unto the unknown jesuite. Being very doubtful how to convey this your undesired or unlooked for answer unto you, for that you have neither name nor dwelling place. If I should direct it to no body, dwelling no where, (which is the fittest place for a nameless person to dwell in) I should 〈◊〉 or never get any to convey the same unto you. But I comfort myself with this one thing, though in your said discovery you have covered your name, that neither her Majesty, her counsel, nor divers other that would gladly confer with you, can tell whither to send unto you; yet your secret 〈◊〉 of your sect (I hope) know you well enough, and where you are resident. 〈◊〉 though thieves by all means possibly hide themselves for fear to be taken: yet thieves and purloiners of their own trade, know well enough where to have them. Whereby I am in good hope that one or other of your secret friends will help to convey it unto you: though you were out of England, as I 〈◊〉 rather you are within the Realm in some one corner or other. Not doubting but that you that are the nameless Author of this discovery, will shortly be discovered yourself: (if you be not already) as some of your fellows have been of late, that thought themselves so safely covered, that they hoped, not so soon to be discovered, whereby your name may be known: unless you change your name with your religion, as your holy father doth when he cometh to be Pope. The Prophets, Christ's Apostles, and many learned Martyrs and holy men, did set their names to their works and writings: which I think you would have done if you had been of their religion. But you both doubting your religion, and fearing to be found out and punished if you were known, wrought very circumspectly to conceal your name: yea and if it were reproved, yet thereby small dispraise or rebuke could happen to you, because you are nameless (but I think not altogether shameless, for that I suppose the shame of your cause hath made you to cover your name.) Surely you deal very discourteously with me to have me at such advantage, for you deride and slander my work without confuting, whereby undeserved I may 〈◊〉 reproach of some that know me: But if I 〈◊〉 your book, you can receive no rebuke thereby of such as know you, though you deserve the same. He may be called very well a 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 one that 〈◊〉 strusteth his own strength, that standeth privily in a dark corner, and 〈◊〉 a man, and so runneth away, whereby it cannot be known who wounded him: In this sort you have dealt with thee because I am named and known, and you nameless, and (therefore in this respect) unknown. And also hereby M. Nicols, I and other are in greater danger than is before mentioned, for we may be in doubt, by you 〈◊〉 some of your sect, to be privily stabbed in with a dagger, dispatch with a dag, or otherwise privily killed or murdered: for they that will not 〈◊〉 to kill 〈◊〉 very, friends and of their own religion, yea and that in prison from whence they could not 〈◊〉: (as Sherwood did of late a stout soldier of the Popes) it is not like they will 〈◊〉 to kill the professors of God's word, whom they mortally hate and that know them not, being at liberty, whereby they unknown, may hope to escape. But if you should go about thus to use us, yet we doubt not but that God would as well preserve us, as the Devil should procure you. If you had perused my book as circumspectly and indifferently, as you read it disdainfully and contemptuously, and if you had been as much addicted to truth, as you were bend to error: you would rather have thanked me than taunted me, esteemed me than envied me, & not to have charged me with lies that have uttered the truth. If my book be so vain as you vaunt, and so untrue as you term it: then belike this your book (clean repugnant to it) is the Lantern of learning, the touch stone of truth, and the wellspring of wit. But until I be better resolved that mine is so false as you feign, and yours so true as you troue: I will be so bold (though something slightly) to write in the defence of my doings. And though to my reproach you have written to other: to your discredit I have written to yourself. Being very sorry that you have urged me unto 〈◊〉 and also it pitieth me that you employ your wit so vainly, and your cunning in such a cause. Great learning and wit will hardly defend a 〈◊〉: But small 〈◊〉 with wisdom, will easily maintain a truth: And now for that you have written your said book chief against matter Nicols, I will leave all that which you have discovered to his 〈◊〉 & discreadite, for himself to answer: who is best able to approve his own sayings, & to unburden himself of such untruths, as it seemeth you charge him withal. Meaning briefly in order from the beginning of your book, to repugn such of your sayings as I am able 〈◊〉 reprove: & also to defend mine own book, which you so maliciously have staundered. The title of your book is (as is before said) A discovery of I. Nicols Minister, etc. I think by this your discovery, you will be discovered to your further discredit. You have named him minister, a name of reproach, with many of your sect, but a Minister of God's word, and of the holy Sacraments, have been and will be, esteemed with the godly, above Papistical Priests, maintainers and mumblers of the Mass, that is most injurious to the death of Christ. If Christ had thought it had been a name of reproach, he would not have said these words to his Disciples, It shall not be so among you, but whosoever will Matth. 20. be great among you, let him be your Minister, etc. The Angels of God were ministers, for they ministered to Mark 1. Christ in the wilderness. Also Christ himself came to minister, for thus he saith, for even the son of man came Mark 10. not to be ministered unto, but to minister, etc. Marry Magdalene, and Mary the mother of james did minister Mark. 15. unto Christ. It is no evil or hateful name to be the minister of Christ, (unless it be evil to be where john. 12. Christ is.) For Christ saith, If any man minister unto more, let him follow me, and where I am, there shall also my minister be. The Apostles office and Acts. 1. function was great and holy, and yet Peter counted it a ministration. The Apostles called the preaching of the 〈◊〉 of God, that ministration of God's word saying, we will give our Acts. 6. selves continually to 〈◊〉 and to the ministration of the word. Here the Apostles disdained not to call themselves ministers of God's word. If a minister were such a reproachful name as you and your sectaries would make it, Saint Mark would not have taken that name upon him: for he was minister to Paul and Barnabas, for thus saith the text, Acts 13. And they had john to their minister, (which was Mark the Evangelist.) The holiest priest of the Pope was never made Priest in such order as S. Paul was made a minister, for if the Pope have made any, yet he made them priests on the earth: but jesus Christ himself made S. Paul a minister, yea and that out of heaven, which S. Paul reporteth himself saying, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightnesse Acts 23. of the sun, shine round about me, and them which journeyed with me: when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the prick. And I said who art thou Lord? And he said I am jesus whom thou persecutest, but rise and stand upon thy feet. For I have appeared to thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness of those things which thou hast seen. Thus it is manifest that jesus Christ himself out of heaven made S. Paul a minister. When you can show me that any of your priests have been made priests, by a better man and in a better place then S. Paul was made a minister, than I will esteem your priests above our ministers: but until that time, I will reverence and esteem our ministers of gods word, above your papistical and Idolatrous priests. And as it is manifest that, minister, was a commendable name and that it was 〈◊〉 in Christ's and the Apostles time, so it appeareth that there were ministers in Chrysostom's time, and that it was 〈◊〉 thought to be a name of contempt: for S, john 〈◊〉 Chrys. in act. Homil. 19 〈◊〉 thus, Stat minister & communis minister & alta vose 〈◊〉, etc. The minister and the common minister standeth up and crieth out with a loud voice, saying, keep silence, and give ear, after that the reader beginneth the prophesy of isaiah. Therefore if you weigh well the words before written concerning ministers, you have no great occasion to despise the name of a minister. Misreported (you say) a lesuit as though you think him far unworthy of that name, if you do think him not worthy to be a jesuite, no more do I. for I take him to be the child of God, and therefore not meet to be a jesuite. And now for that it seemeth you are a jesutte, because you would not have Master Nycols to be of the jesuits society: (which you take belike to be the best of all other) I trust you will not be dispuleased that I name myself a Christian, wherewith I am right well content. Assured that the true 〈◊〉 of a christian (which was instituted by Christ almost Sextien hundredth years since) shall always be able to counterueyle the Superstition of a jesuite, of which religion and society, one Ignatius Layola a spaniard of Biskay, was the first founder, beginner, and captain not fifty years since. And though you hold by the first name of our high friend and redeemer which is jesus: yet we hold by his second name which is Christ, much musing what Spirit should incense you, to leave the ancient name of a Christian, which many thousands of martyrs and other Godly and learned men have most defirously embraced, and gladly retained: whom God hath ever since Christ's time preserved, prospered and blessed, amongs which I never heard nor read, that any of them were called jesuits. Whereof you may see a manifest proof (if you will) by the prosperity of our prince, her godly government, her peaceable reign, and her wonderful Success, who is the chief defendresse of us and this our Christian religion under God, for read all the Chronicles with the conference of tunes, and you shall not find that ever any prince or kingdom have been more blessed. Which prosperity and blessings, God doth not commonly bestow upon heretics, as you do term us: for on his enemies and Heretyltes, (I must not say jesuits) he sendeth commonly his Curses, plagues, wars, dearth, scarcity, and trouble, with all kind of evil success: By which tokens & marks, you may know yourselves, and how that God doth not favour neither you nor your doings. For what success have your practices? your devices are daily revealed, your conspiraces are prevented, your treasons are bewrayed, your power diminished, your Soldiers against her highness in Ireland discomfited and killed, your captains and crew discovered, and all your other doings turn to your own destruction. And that the same may more plainly appear, by the prosperous success of the true Christians on the one side, and the evil success of God's Enemies on the other side: I have by infallible arguments and examples plainly proved in my said book called A persuasion from papistry that we have the true religion, and you the wrong: every indifferent reader whereof cannot choose but confess. But I think I understand wherefore you have chosen rather the name of jesus than the name of Christ, & that is this as I take it: For as much as your papistical or jesuitical religion doth teach that you may be your own saviours by your good works, masses, the Pope's pardons, and other such trumpery: yea and by whipping of yourselves as shall appear hereafter. I think therefore you have chosen to be called jesuits of jesus (which signifeth a Saviour) the first name of our redeemer Christ, importing thereby to be your own saviours. So that you shall not need that he shallbe your Saviour, but your sesues: (according as your Romish doctrine doth allow) But we, because we are most sure that none can be our Saviour, but jesus Christ, therefore we are content to yield over that name of jesus to himself, thinking ourselves far unworthy to be named thereby, and are most glad to be entitled by his second name Christ, which signifieth unctus, that is anointed, and so to be called Christians. Knowing that we can do no good thing unless we be spiritually anointed, comforted, and learned or inspired by the holy spirit of God the holy ghost. And yet it may be, that you name yourselves jesuits of jesus the Son of Siracke, or of some other jesus of your own allowing: which may be the Pope, who by his own laws hath all power in heaven and earth, and by the sayings of Simon Begnius, is your saviour, for he said to Pope Leo, Behold the Lion is come of the tribe of juda Concil. later. sessi. 6. pag. 604. the root of David etc. O most blessed Leo, we have looked for thee to be our Saviour. Whereby (if it be so, but you are worse than mad if you believe so) he may be your jesus, & so you his jesuits (as you are in deed.) Or rather, I think you name yourselves 〈◊〉 of your jesus of bread that is of your own making, which you say & swear, is the very body, soul, and 〈◊〉 of jesus Christ our saviour. But because my said book hath manifestly proved that your jesus of bread is but a plain cake, whereby you are most falsely 〈◊〉, therefore you deride and discommend it, that it should not be read. Perhaps you will say that you are no jesuite, and therefore I misname you: in deed you have not named yourself to be a jesuite, wherefore I can not much blame you: for you that are loath to utter your first Christian name and the old ancient name of your progenitors and ancestors: it is no marvel though you hide your last name (jesuite,) which is but lately sprung up and counterfeit. But by all conjectures you are a jesuite, partly for that you so mightily write in their defence and against him that hath reproved them: and partly for that you have flourished your book in the first front thereof with the name of jesus, (howsoever it is furnished with his word) which maketh a great show outwardly howsoever it is inwardly. Which name of jesus is so environed with fiery and cloven tongues, (as it should seem) that he hath a very hard heart, that will not believe, that every jesuite when he speaketh hath the holy ghost upon him in the likeness of fiery and cloven tongues, as the Apostles had soon after Christ's ascension. Truly this your papistical and jesuitical religion consisteth only in name and outward vain 〈◊〉: which are babbles to bring babes a bed, but far in sufficient to entice the wise to your ways. You know that all they that say Math. 7. Lord Lord shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven, but they that do the will of God. There will some say to Christ, Math. 7. did not we work miracles and cast out devils in thy name? but Christ will say unto them, away ye workers of iniquity for I know you not. If Christ will use them thus that cast out devils out of men in the name of jesus: what will he do to you that fill men full of devils under the name of jesus? Be no more blind but see, it is not the naming of yourselves by the name of jesus, that will make you blessed: but the embracing and following the doctrine of jesus. Therefore esteem not the cross more than Christ: nor traditions more than truth: lest jesus Christ say unto you, away ye workers of iniquity for I know you not. You and we have professed in our Baptisine to forsake the devil and all his works, and to be true Christians the soldiers and servants of christ, which we promised to perform: but you (if you be a 〈◊〉) & the rest of that sect, have broken the same in that you are become jesuits, and have forsaken the name and religion of a Christian, mentioned in the Gospel. And because you will be sure not to return back again to Christ, nor become Christians: you have made a great oath, to observe the orders, rules, and religion of the same, which is clean contrary to the law of Christ as shall appear by the particular points of your oath. O what a wicked devil is this that thus doth be witch you? To keep the laws of Christ, & to continue in his service, you make but a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which you break every day: but to continue in a 〈◊〉 devised society clean contrary to the Gospel of jesus Christ, (which will lead you to hell) you make a great 〈◊〉, which nothing can cause you to break. And to the intent that every one may see that read this (if they 〈◊〉 not wilfully blind) that the oath you take, is 〈◊〉 pugnaut and directly against the law of our saviour 〈◊〉 Christ: I have here 〈◊〉 the same, not only to make 〈◊〉 ashamed to 〈◊〉 the name of jesus, whose law you deeply swear to resist, but also that the indifferent reader hereof may perfectly perceive, that though outwardly you show yourselves by your name of jesuits to be the followers & friends of jesus: yet inwardly you are mortal enemies of jesus, & that you are the servants, or rather bondslaves of sathan. And this is the oath of you jesuits that followeth. I. N. do firmly admit and embrace the Apostolic The oath of the jesuits. Bullapiiquarti super ordinatione & promotione doctorum, & aliorum cuiuscunque artis et facoltatis professorum. etc. and ecclesiastical traditions, and the rest of the observations and constitutions of the same Church. Also I do admit the holy Scripture, according unto that sense, which the holy mother the Church hath and doth hold it, to whom it appertaineth to judge of the true sense & interpretation of holy Scriptures, neither will I ever receive or interpret it, but according to the uniform consent of the fathers. I do also profess that there are truly and properly seven Sacraments of the new law, ordained by jesus Christ our Lord, and for the salvation of mankind, though not all to every one necessary, to wit, baptism, confirmation, The lords Supper, penance, extreme unction, order & matrimony, and that they confer grace: And of them, baptism, confirmation, & order, without sacralidge, may not be reiterated. I do also receive and admit the received and allowed rites of the Catholic Church in the solemn administration of all the afore said Sacraments. I do embrace and receive all and every the things; which of original sin and justification have been defined and decreed in the holy Synod of Trent. I profess in like sort, that in the Mass there is offered unto God the true proper propitiatory Sacrifice for quick and dead: And that in the most holy sacrament of the Eucharist, there is truly, really and substantially, the body and blood together with the Soul and divinity of our Lord jesus Christ, and that there is a conversion of the whole substance of bread into the body, & the whole substance of wine into blood, the which conversion the catholic church calleth transubstantiation. I confess withal, that under one only kind whole & perfect Christ, and the true sacrament is received. I do constantly hold purgatory, & that the souls there detained, are relieved by the prayers of the faithful, & in like sort, that the saints raining together with Christ, are to be honoured & called upon, & that they pray unto God for us, & that their relics are to be worshipped. I do firmly avouch, that the images of Christ, & the mother of God always a virgin, & also of other saints are to be had & retained, & that we are to give them due honour & worship. I do affirm, that the faculty of pardons hath been left by Christ in the church, & that the use of them is very wholesome to christian people. I do acknowledge the holy Catholic & Apostolic Church of Rome, for the mother & mistress of all churches. I do promise & swear obedience to the bishop of Rome, successor of blessed Peter, prince of the apostles, and vicar of jesus Christ. I do also undoubtedly receive & profess all that have been delivered, defined and declared by the holy canons and general counsels, & specially by the holy Synod of Trent, and withal all things contrary & heresies whatsoever have by the church been condemned, rejected & accursed, I also do condemn, reject, and accurse. This true catholic faith, without the which none can be saved, the which I do presently willingly profess, & truly hold, the same wholly & immaculate unto the last gasp most conconstantly retain, teach and preach as much as in me 〈◊〉 lie, I the same N. do promise, vow, and swear, so God me help, and the holy Gospel s of God. Are not you the true followers & disciples of jesus that makes this oath, or swears to keep & perform all these articles until your last gasp: O most mad & bewitched jesuits, what an oath & vow do you make here: jesus by whom you name yourselves jesuits (that only can & must be our Saviour) you have clean left out, & never make mention in this your oath, of your obeying of him nor of his word: But of the Pope & of the Church of Rome, with pardons, relics, worshipping of images & such other trumpery, that is quite contrary & repugnant to the law & commandment of jesus Christ our redeemer. And in this your detestable oath you swear to continued & hold this damnable doctrine until your last gasp because (as I said before), of set purpose you will not return to Christ. But I 〈◊〉 God of his 〈◊〉 goodness (if it be his blessed will) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your hearts with his holy spirit, that you 〈◊〉 this 〈◊〉 and dangerous way you are in and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with 〈◊〉 from this your society of Satan (as M. Nicols hath done) whereby you may be of the true church of 〈◊〉, & so to be that children of God. I need not go about to 〈◊〉 these your points of your Papistical religion, whereunto you are sworn: partly for that the simplest soul that can but read, may see how contrary your profession is to God's word and the Gospel of Christ, but chief for that by many and profound learned men, by the holy scriptures, and by invincible arguments, they are confounded, vanquished and beaten down, beside in my said book called (A 〈◊〉 from papistry) the chiefest points of your religion, are proved false, wicked, detestable, vain, foolish, childish and ridiculous. But least mysilence should make you say, that I would have confuted the particular points of your said oath if I could, shortly therefore (God willing) I will set forth and publish a brief treatise touching the same which shall 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 falsely you are forsworn by this your horrible oath, wherein (through God's help) by your own four marks, and three properties, which you produce in your said discovery, to prove your Church of Rome to be the true Church; your said Church of Rome shallbe plainly proved, to be none of Christ's Church, but to be the Synagogue of Satan. And as you have gone about, to discredit my said book by this your discovery, so I will God willing therein disprove your said oath and you, by some paricular parts of my said book by you slandered, as it shall appear manifestly to the indifferent reader. And 〈◊〉 that I have discovered your detestable and horrible 〈◊〉, whereby the meaning of this your discovery may 〈◊〉 be 〈◊〉 I will proceed (God willing) to repugn some particular 〈◊〉 of your book, and to defend mine 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 the rest for M. 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 (as I said before) who chief knoweth his own cause, and 〈◊〉 best able 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The second part. TO the intent you would have your simple Reader 2. part. think, that you have the name of Jesus in great reverence (though you despise his doctrine) you have on the one side of your flourished Jesus placed these words of Saint Paul, God hath exalted him, and given him a Phil. 2. ver. 9 name which is above all names. If you thinké that S. Paul meant these words on Jesus Christ (as most certainly he did) them why should you not 〈◊〉 that his doctrine is above all doctrines: It is a strange matter that you should reverence the name of Jesus, and detest and forswear the doctrine of Jesus. Surely if a man detest a man's deeds or doctrine, I cannot think that he doth love or favour his name: for he that hateth a man's doings or doctrine, will have no great lust to hear of his name. Nay the hearing of his name, will make him strait way to speak evil of his person. Therefore if you love the name of Jesus, you will not swear to renounce the doctrine of Jesus: but because you have sworn to forsake the doctrine of Jesus, therefore (say what you will) you cannot love the name of Jesus. Wherefore unless you receive the doctrine of Jesus, and believe only to be saved by him, at your last gasp, he will say to you at the last day (though you tell him then that you are Jesuits and hold of his name) away ye works of iniquity for I know you not. The third part. ON the other side of this your flourished name of Jesus, 3. part. you have set these words of Saint 〈◊〉 in the Acts of the 〈◊〉, whereby you would 〈◊〉 the people think, that all you do, is by the 〈◊〉 of God: when (God knoweth) you 〈◊〉 all thing 〈◊〉 quite 〈◊〉 to the same, and swears (for state of 〈◊〉) that you will withstand the same until your last 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are the words, There is no other name under heaven given Acts. 4. ver. 12. unto men, wherein we must be saved. Saint Peter by these words showeth himself to be no good Proctor for the Pope, though the Pope taketh him for his chief pillar and Patron. Except Peter meant nothing by these words, or that they must have none other sense then the Church of Rome will allow, (for the scriptures by the saying of Cardinal Cusanus hath no right sense nor meaning, but that the Church of Rome doth allow, and also by your meaning, or else you would not swear so deeply to admit the holy Scripture according to that sense which your holy mother the Church, hath and doth hold.) And so you may make the sense and meaning thereof to fall out thus, There is none other name under heaven given unto men whereby we must be saved: that is to say, There is no salvation without the Church of Rome, or that none can be saved without the catholic faith of the Church of Rome: If this were Peter's meaning, or that the giving of the sense thereof is referred to the Church of Rome, whereby to expound them thus or which way they list: Then it is like this name of Jesus will do you Jesuits great pleasure, or else if Saint Peter meant thus by the same words, or that the Church of Rome hath power to expound them thus, There is none other name under heaven given unto men, 〈◊〉 in we must be saved: that is to say, if we carry or wear upon us the name of Jesus, either printed, written, graven, sowed, or embroidered, or otherwise 〈◊〉, than I will not say, but that the bare name of Jesus would save both Jesuits and Jews, for then, Jesuits, Jews, Turks, Sarrizins, Heathen, Infidels, and all other be they never so wicked may have the name of Jesus sowed or set on their garments, and then they should be safe, & so saved by the name of Jesus. Or else if peter's or the Pope's meaning be, that the naming of Jesus (without any other thing) will save us, than I will not say, but that the only naming of Jesus will save both Jesuits, Jews, Gentiles, yea and Devils also: for the Devils that possessed the two men, to whom Christ gave leave to go into the heerde of Swine, did name Jesus, saying, O jesus thou son of God, etc. And therefore Math. 〈◊〉. if naming of Jesus will serve the turn, than Devils and all may be saved. But it is not the setting of the name of Jesus flourished as it were with fiery tongues in your books, nor the texts of scripture magnifying the name of Jesus, nor the wearing on you the name of Jesus in your Agnus this, or your gospels, or other such like, nor the feigned naming of Jesus: but the following of the doctrine of 〈◊〉 and believing only in Jesus. For so did the Pharisees and the Saducees, brag and boast of Abraham as you do of Jesus: yet for all that holy John Baptist could not abide them, but called them generation of vipers, saying, O generation of Math. 3. vipers, who hath taught you to flee the vengeance to come? (as though they could not flee from it, because they were not taught by Christ, or that they thought to flee from it by the traditions of men, not by the word of God) Do therefore (saith he) the fruits of repentance, and think not in yourselves, we have Abraham to our father, etc. Therefore boast not nor brag too much of the name of Jesus, as the Pharisees and Saducees did of Abraham, neither follow the traditions of the Church of Rome, as they did the traditions of their elders: But follow the doctrine of Jesus, and believe only in Jesus. For according to Christ's words, Not all they that say Jesus Math. 7. Jesus shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but they that do the will of Jesus, which is in heaven. Whose will can never be done, unless we hear or read the last will of Jesus, which is the holy Gospel. The fourth part. AND under the name of Jesus, you have placed these 4. part. words of the 〈◊〉. of Solomon. A lying witness shall have an evil end. As though your Jesuitical 〈◊〉 were nothing but truth, & that professors thereof did never make lie: and as though our religion were altogether false, and in the professors thereof were nothing but falsehood. But if evil ends are special marks (according to Solomon) of lying witnesses: than you that are jesuits have no great cause to boast that you are true witnesses. And now for that you grant that a lying witness hath an evil end, than they that have evil ends are not like to be true witnesses: and so by this means, Sherwood and Ducket that died so dangerously and had so evil an end of late (though they professed your romish religion and did hold on the Pope) were lying witnesses. And seeing they were lying witnesses, the thing they witnessed was a lie, and so, by your own sayings in the first front of your book of this your discovery, you have discovered your Romish religion, which they witnessed at their last gasp to be a lie. And as you have proved here by Solomon that Sherwood and Ducket were lying witnesses by their evil end: So Persuas. from papistry. I have showed in my said book called, A persuasion from papistry: divers of your Romish religion that had evil Pag. 289. 〈◊〉, (because they were lying witnesses) but lest you should forget them, I will put you in remembrance of some of them. john de Roma a professor of your romish religion, an enemy to the Gospel, and a great 〈◊〉 thereof, (for he filled boots with boiling grease, and so put them on the Gospelers legs, tying them backward to a form with their legs hauging down over a small fire to torment them the more, and so examined them,) (through the vengeance of God) rotted and swarmed full of vermin, not able to abide his own smell, so that his flesh fell away from his bones by piecemeal, whose end and death was most horrible and evil, and therefore by your own judgement, he was a lying witness. The Commendator of Saint Anthony of Vienna an Pag. 291. enemy to the Gospel, & one of 〈◊〉 holy Romish Church, that gave sentence of condemnation on a true professor of the Gospel called 〈◊〉, died 〈◊〉 and had an 〈◊〉 end, and therefore according to your own sentence he was a lying witness. Thomas Arundale Archbishop of Cantorburie, a principal Pag. 〈◊〉. member of your romish Church, that condemned the Lord Cobham a true professor of the Gospel, his tongue did so swell, that he could swallow no meat, and so died and had an evil end, and therefore by your own doom he was a lying witness. Also a certain Bishop of Hungary a mighty maintainer Pag. 〈◊〉. of your popish religion, and a false witness against the Gospel, did run about stark mad, and raving, died miserably, and so he had an evil end, and therefore he was a lying witness. Moreover one Berrie the vicar of Aylsham a commissary and a champion of your Church, and a cruel persecutor Pag. 292. of the professors and witnesses of God's word, fell down suddenly to the ground with a 〈◊〉 groan, and never 〈◊〉 after, neither showed any token of repentance, and so he had an evil end, and therefore by your own saying he was a lying witness. A great sort of such are described at large in the latter end of my said book, whereby it doth most manifestly appear that the said professors of your Romish religion were false witnesses, because they had an evil end. And so your romish doctrine is false, because the professors, maintainers and defenders are lying witnesses. And now as lying witnesses are tried by their evil ends: so, true witnesses are known by their good ends. And because the pure & perfect professors of God's word (our religion) have good ends, therefore they are true witnesses. And as I have proved a great fort of your romish religion by my said book, to be false and lying witnesses because of their evil ends: so have I in the latter end of the said book, proved divers professors of this our religion to be true witnesses, for that they had good ends. For they that suffered for the Gospel, were in their torments most patiented and constant, whom God did miraculously aid, help and strengthen until the yielding up of their spirit. Which if you had read as advisedly, as I fear you omitted purposely: you should soon have spied, them of your religion to be lying witnesses by their evil ends, and them of our religion to be true witnesses, by their good ends. If you would stick to this saying of Solomon produced by you, and consider the most wicked & dangerous deaths, and horrible, desperate and evil ends of your sectaries and professors of your religion: you would then say that the 〈◊〉 & Papists are lying witnesses. Therefore have a better consideration of the same words of Solomon: and then you shall plainly perceive that you are wounded with your own arrow, and that you have shot yourselves thorough with salomon's shaft. The 〈◊〉 part. Under the said sentence of the proverbs of Solomon, 5. part. you have placed these words of Saint Barnard, An non ex hac odiosa impudentia, pullulabit mox Bernard. ser. 4.2. in Can. impenitentia matter desperationis? Will not impenitency the mother of desperation, shortly breed or spring of this hateful impudency? Hereby you would have your Readers believe, that the professors of the Gospel and they that speak or write against you in the defence thereof, are so without all shame, that it will bring them shortly to impenitency and then to desperation. I would the less blame you for bringing this text of S. barnard against us, if you could show but one of the earnest professors, followers, and continuers of the Gospel, that died impenitently & desperately, as I have alleged a great sort (in my said book by you slandered) and can do many more, of your Romish and Papistical religion that have died most horribly, wickedly and desperately. But because you are not able to do it, you seek by one that is of more credit than yourself, to discredit us. But as you shoot without his consent, so you shoot his shaft here at a wrong mark: for he shooteth not this arrow at us, nay he shooteth it at you. For if you Jesuits and Papists be impudent lying witnesses against the manifest truth of the Gospel, and have an evil end, dying impenitently and desperately: Then doth not the text show plainly, that S. Barnard hath hit you, and not touched us: Yes I think. And that it may appear whether this text of S. barnard doth hit yourselves or not (though you shoot it at us) I will here briefly note some examples of the impenitent and desperate deaths of some of the champions of your romish Church, which I have produced in my said book concerning the same. The Lord of Reuest chief precedent of the Parliament Persuas. from papistry. of Ajax being a great professor and maintainer of the pope's religion, and there withal a cruel persecutor of the Gospelers: Pag. 290. was stricken with a horrible fury and madness, and so he died in his rage & fury. Whereby it appeareth that he was impudent & so impenitent, & thereby brought to desperation. One Morgan Bishop of S. David's in Queen Mary's Pag. 293. time, a great post of your popish Church, & that condemned Bishop Farrare, whereby he was burned for professing the gospel: was soon after so strike by the power of God, that his meat would not go down, but rise & pick up again, sometimes at his mouth, sometime blown out at his nose, most horrible to behold, & so he continued until his death. Whereby it is more like that he was impenitent, & thereby brought to desperation. A Suffragan of Dover in Q. Mary's time, a champion Pag. 294. of your Romish Church, did break his neck falling down a pair of stairs, in the Cardinals chamber at Grenewitch, immediately after he had received the Cardinals blessing, which showeth that he rather died impenitently & desperately, for all he had the Cardinal's blessing. One Clerk a mighty maintainer of your religion, & an Pag. 296. open enemy to the gospel & to all the godly preachers thereof in king Edward's days, hanged himself in the tower of London: which showeth rather that he was impenitent and thereby brought to desperation. The great and notable Papist called trolling Smith, fell Pag. 296. down suddenly in the street & died: which argueth rather the 〈◊〉 was an impenitent & a desperate Papist. And also one Rockwood a perfect Papist, and the chief Pag. 298. procurer of the great trouble of certain godly men in Calais for this our religion, when he was at the point of death, staring and raging, cried, and said that he was utterly damned. And he would not ask God mercy, but brayed and cried out, all too late, all too late: whereby it appeareth that he was an impudent Papist, which brought to impenite 〈◊〉, and so to die desperately. These with divers more of your Romish religion that had such evil ends, and died impenitently and desperately, have I set forth in the latter end of my said book, whereby you and your sect may see (if ye will see) that Saint 〈◊〉 picked not this dart at us but at you: And therefore more like a vain bragger, than a skilful fighter, with the weapon you thought to hurt us, you have wounded yourself. (As you and your fellows have always done yet, yea and always shall, do and say what you can). It is a 〈◊〉 matter to make children and fools believe, that a glow-worm will burn them: so you may easily persuade the simple people, that this and such like texts, that you flourish your books withal, will quite overthrow us. But as the glow-worm is not 〈◊〉 though it shine bright, and therefore cannot burn them that touch it: so your texts you bring against us (when they are thoroughly ripped and scanned, though they seem never so great and strong) can neither hurt us nor stir us. Nay you destroy your own doctrine, with your own darts. The sixth part. IN the beginning of your said Discovery you say thus 〈◊〉. part. to the indifferent Reader, It is one point among other Discovery. Pag. 3. of very bare brokers, to extol immoderately very base wares, etc. If extollers, of very base wares are very bare brokers, 〈◊〉 by this your own saying, you jesuits and Papists are not only the 〈◊〉, but also the baddest and falsest brokers of all other: for you 〈◊〉 Masses, and say they will save us, you prefer the Pope's pardons, and pronounce them as precious, you praise your romish relics, and affirm they will relieve us, and also that your oil will work our salvation: with divers other of the Pope's wares which you extol to be so excellent and pure, that none other wares on the earth but they, can work the like wonders. But for that God's word doth not warrant these your wares, neither the prophets do proclaim them, neither Christ doth command them, nor the Apostles do allow them, nor the Evangelists did once 〈◊〉 them: Therefore howsoever you jesuits do extol them, we christians must needs despise them. And now as these your popish wares are proved base and bad wares, because they are neither commanded, nor commended by Christ: so you must needs 〈◊〉 but very bare brokers, nay detestable and devilish deceivers, for if they may justly be called dissemblers and deceivers, rather than noughty brokers, that set forth and extol, vellewres for velvet, sackcloth for sattan, course harden for fine linen, brown paper for pure parchment, ale for aligant, and water for wine: (though they lose not all their money they paid for the same, and though their said false wares may do them some pleasure,) than you that be jesuits and Papists, may rightly be called detestable and devilish deceivers, that extol, praise, preach, and write, masses for God's mercy, crosses for Christ, the pope's oil for Christ's blood, bread for Christ's body, the Pope's paltry for God's pardons, fables for faith, 〈◊〉 for treasure, relics for remission, the decrees of men for the doctrine of God, falsehood for truth, damnation for salvation, and the endless pains of hell, for the everlasting joys of heaven: which most false and counterfeit wares, through your praising and extolling of them, the ignorant people do buy them of the Pope, and pay therefore dearly, to their utter destruction: therefore (all this well weighed and considered) though you mean by your words that we are bare brokers: yet here you are descried, to be detestable and devilish deceivers, far worse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 brokers. And though you count M. Niclos for the base wares that we the bare brokers do so extol, yet if you advise yourself aswell as you should, and no less than we wish, he is not so base a ware as you take him: (except that be a base ware that is bought with the dearest price) for how base soever you make him, he cost more than all the pope's wares are worth, he cost even the very heart blood of Christ the son of God, yea and Christ was enforced before he could 〈◊〉 him, to come out of heaven, into this earth, & here to pay it and lay it down for him. Therefore if you advise yourself well, M. Nicols is not very base ware. All the masses that you are able to mumble, nor all the money that they cost (and yet they cost a great deal in a year) can not buy him, (though you swear they can save both the quick and the dead). It seemeth you take him for base ware, because you count his learning to be but base, how base soever his learning is now with us, you counted him well learned when he was with you. Do you think he was better learned when he was the pope scholar, than now when he is Christ's disciple? or was his knowledge more profound when he professed the pope than now when he preacheth Christ? belike the pope (having all laws & Dist. 40. si papa, in glossa. heavenly judgement in his breast) when he came to him, breathed him full of learning: and now at his coming away, Extra. de trans. episcopi. the Pope took it from him again. You have very good luck, for wicked & unlearned men (if they please & obey the Pope) Quanto in glossa. them they are godly & learned men: but if they displease & disobey the pope, then are they wicked and unlearned. It is no marvel, though men that are living & reasonable creatures (being of the pope's religion) be godly & learned: when dead and senseless things are holy when they come under the priests fingers: for as long as the goldsmith hath the chalis it is not holy, but every one may touch it with their bare hand: but when the papistical priest hath once fingarde it, it is so holy, that none may touch it but the priest, except with a glove, whereby it appeareth that a calves or sheeps skin, is more precious with your priests, than the skin or bare hand of a man the image of God. A little cake is of small value before the priest have it, but after he lay hold on it, it is the 〈◊〉 lie body of Christ; wine is but wine as long as we have it, but it is that very blood of Christ when the priest hath once catch it: oil is of small value as long as we have it, but when it cometh to the priests hands, it is equal to christs blood, & worketh our salvation: therefore whatsoever pleaseth the pope, is very precious: wherefore M. Nicols must be content to go now for base ware, as one utterly unlearned, because he is fled from antichrist to Christ, and from the Pope to his Prince. But howsoever you jesuits think of his learning, we Christians do not mislike it, (if it were less) as long as he preacheth Christ & is gided by the gospel. As long as he was one of the pope's earthly warehouse, you counted him most excellent ware: but now that he is become one of Christ's heavenvly treasure-house, you count him but baggage & trash. It is happy for him that he is come out of the pope's warehouse: for if he had tarried there but a little longer, he would have been a great deal base than he is, as I am sure he himself thinketh no less, (if one that hath a guilty conscience & a desperate mind, may be so counted). The seventh part. YOu call him a twice revolted minister & a silly grammarian. The. 7. part. How oft he hath revolted I know not, he is old enough, discou. pag. 3. therefore he is able therein to answer for himself: but this I will tell you, it is better to revolt twice from truth to falsehood, & then to return 〈◊〉 to that truth, & so coutinue in that same until the last end: them to return from falsehood to truth, & after to revolt by oath from truth to falsehood, & so to continued there in until the last gasp. & now because he is 〈◊〉 from the pope to his prince, you call him a silly grammarian, but when he was revolted from his prince to that pope, you counted him an 〈◊〉 scholar. You bear him such a grudge & detest him so much, (because he is departed from the pope to his prince, & from the jesuitical sect to the Christian religion) that if he had not been a good grammarian in deed, you would never have bestowed that name of a silly grammarian upon him: but if he be but a silly grammarian as you term him, he is more meet to be a pope, than pope Innocent was to be a prelate, if we may credit Erasmus, who writeth as followeth of the said pope's answer unto Inter epi. Au. epi. 91. Eras. the council of 〈◊〉: In hac Epistola, etc. We lack in this Epistle both eloquence, and wit, and learning meet for such a prelate. Which showeth that the same Pope Innocent was neither eloquent, wise, nor learned. Whereby it seemeth that M. Nicols, may presume with your pope, for that you allow him the name of a silly grammarian, and therefore if you look well on it, M. Nicols is not so base a ware as you count him, unless you mean to embase an unlearned Pope. The eight part. The 8. part. YOu say, but only for that he surchargeth with slander discou. pag. 3. so many other men, yea Princes and States in that his declamation, you could more willingly have pitted then answered (knowing the man's feebleness as you do) etc. It may be that you are so angry with him foretelling of truth, that rather of malice than matter, and of colour than cause, you have taken in hand to excuse your Pope and his prelates, by accusing him. But though it be the use of jesuits to slander true Christians, yet true Christians do not use to slander jesuits. And though it pleaseth the Pope that papists shall bely protestants, yet it displeaseth Christ, that protestants shall bely papists. Wherefore I hardly believe that M. Nicoles (being now become of a faithless jesuite, a faithful Christian) will slander any thereby to displease his master Christ: knowing moreover that hell is the place appointed for liars. So that whatsoever in this point you charge him withal, I doubt not but he 〈◊〉 & will easily discharge himself: but though you allege his slandering of other is the cause you answer him, yet I can not believe, but to be preferred of the Pope, or to be praised of the papists, 〈◊〉 rather procured you to do it. It seemeth, had it not been for the great slander 〈◊〉 made, you would have been moved with pity not to have answered him: this is a very sudden change, I marvel, the you are now so pinchte with pity in answering one, whose 〈◊〉 were wont to be so pitiless in burning of thousands Well, it was very evil luck that M. Nicols slandered so many as he did, else you had not wasted so much paper as you have done. For his feebleness which you know (that is his lack of learning as it should seem) would have eased you of a great deal of pain that you took with your pen: and perhaps of some punishment that you deserve of your Prince. Though it appear by this your writing, that M. Nicols learning is very feeble, it seemeth that Erasmus knew also that some of the Pope's learned and School doctors did not Erasmus in scholis in Hieronym. ad Marcellam. far excel him, for thus doth Erasmus write, portenta, quae nunc passim legimus in commentariis Recentium interpretum, tam impudentia, & insulsa 〈◊〉, ut videantur suibus ea scripfisse, non bominibus: The monstrous follies, that we commonly read in the commentaries of the late Interpreters (meaning the chief of the Pope's doctors) are so far without shame, and so peevish, as if they had been written for swine and not for men. Though you count M. Nicols learning to be feeble, yet I trust you can not prove, but that his writing (though you count him a silly grammarian) may serve for men and not for 〈◊〉. If such as Erasmus writeth of had learned enough to be the Pope's doctors: then M. Nicoles hath learning enough to be one of ours ministers. It appeareth De con distin. 4, Retulerunt julius. pp. 1. that Pope julius the 2. was scant so good a grammarian as M. Nicols, for if he were, he would not have assigned a warrant with fiatur, for fiat. Alphonsus de 〈◊〉 setteth forth the Popes for excellent learned men, for thus of them he writeth, Constat plures papas adeo Illiteratos esse, ut grammaticam penitus ignorent: it is manifest that many Popes are so unlearned, that they are utterly ignorant of their grammar. If M. Nicols learning be feeble being (by your own saying) a silly Grammarian, than many of your Popes had not much learning, being no Grammarians at all. Therefore in affirming M. N. feebleness in learning, you have made me prove some of your pope's to be altogether without learning. you should have foreseen, before you wrote, least by dispraising your foe, you danger your friends, is not this a goodly gain you have got: it is as you do ever and as you shall always, you think by your 〈◊〉 to overthrow other: but with your own trypps you overtumble yourselves. Well, though it stand M. Nicols in hand to have learning being a minister of god's word, yet it maketh no matter whether one have learning or no that cometh to be Pope, for Baldus writeth, Papa est doctor utriusque juris, authoritate non Scientia: The Pope is doctor of both laws, by authority, not by knowledge. You may see what a precious matter it is to be a pope, if any knew that his son should be pope, he need never put him to school. The Pope's breast hath such a special prerogative, that it hath more learning without study, than all the men's breasts in the world have with study, as it seemeth by one of the pope's gloss which is this, Et si totus mundus, etc. Although all the world would judge in 9 quae. 3. neque ab Augu. dist. 19 si. Romanorum in glos. any matter against the pope, yet it seemeth we ought to stand to the judgement of the Pope. For he seemeth to have all laws in the chest of his bosom; Therefore whatsoever the Pope either alloweth or disalloweth, we are bound likewise to allow or disallow the same. And whosoever is not obedient to the laws of the Church of Rome, must be deemed an heretic: and it were as great sin, as Church robbing, to reason of any the pope's doings. You that fear to run into the laps of heresy, must affirm that the pope hath all laws whatsoever, in his breast, though he be 〈◊〉 so unlearned a dolt, & whatsoever he alloweth or disalloweth, you must allow or disallow the same. They have 〈◊〉 hard hearts & fantastical wits that will not believe all this that is thus glossed of the pope. And as it may be thought that the pope hath power above all other to judge rightly of all earthly matters & causes, because he hath all laws fast closed in his 〈◊〉, (which he had need to keep close & well shut, for fear they 〈◊〉 out) even so he hath a heavenvly judgement, which none other on the earth hath or can have but he, for thus it is written: Papa Extra. de trans. 〈◊〉. quanto in glossa. 〈◊〉 coeleste arbitrium etc. The pope is said to have an heavenvly judgement, therefore in such things ash willeth, his will standeth in stead of reason. Neither may any man say unto him, O sir, why do you thus? like as a law may be made by the only will of the pope: so may the same 〈◊〉 be dispensed withal, only by the will of the pope. If the pope have such a heavenly judgement, as his doctors allow him, & as he taketh upon him, he might do very much good, especially in determining & judging of poor men's causes that have wrong, whereby without any expenses & travel they might quickly obtain their right. Well, as king Solomon obtained great wisdom at gods hands, so God sent him an occasion soon after for the trial thereof, which was by finding 3. King. 3. out of the true mother of a living child, that two harlots did strive for, for being doubtful who was the true mother, very wisely he made them believe, he would cut or divide the child between them, wherewith she that was not the mother thereof was well content, but the true mother prick with natural affection of her child, willed rather that the other should have her hole child alive, than she to have half of it being dead: which when the wise Solomon perceived, he delivered to the right mother her own child. Even so as the pope hath a divine & a heavenly judgement, so you shall see what an occasion was given him, to show & set forth his divine & heavenvly judgement, with to the intent that the pope's divine knowledge & heavenvly wisdom should not be 〈◊〉, I have set forth a worthy example thereof, in my said book, (which you so much mislike) called a perlwasion from papistry, as followeth. Persuasion from papistry pag. 121. There was a great contention between them of Ratispone in Germany, & the Abbey of S. Denis in France about the body of S. Denis, which was so deep a doubt to johan. Calvin. de reliquiis. discuss, that none but the pope was able to try the truth thereof. And so to Rome they went, & the pope sat sadly in judgement about it, & examined their allegations & matter thoroughly, and grew to a conclusion: & in the end gave thereof his deep & definitive sentence, and said that both they of Ratispone, & they of S. Denis, had the whole body of S. Denis, & that whosoever would say the contrary should be an heretic. If the truth had not been fast nailed to the pope's chair, (& also if he had not had a marvelous divine & heavenly judgement) the pope could never have given such a true, wise, and learned judgement of this weighty matter. Now surely it was a popelie Resolution, yea and such a one as must needs make the veriest fools in the world believe that Will Sommers would not have given so found and ridiculous a judgement. This famous, divine, and true judgement of the Pope is sufficient (if there were nothing else) to make us believe that the Pope can not lie. Here the Pope shows that he had a heavenly power with his divine judgement, more like a God than a man. Though this before written may persuade you jesuits, that this pope had all laws and knowledge in his breast: yet it assureth us Christians that he had no wit in his brain, and though it teach you that he was a divine judge: yet it doth tell us plainly, that he was a very doit. Wherefore though you count M. Nicols but a silly Gammarian, yet if he had sit in place of the Pope, he would have given a wiser judgement than he: and though you count his learning but feeble, yet he would not have given such a feeble judgement of the body of saint Device as your Pope did. Yet every one must believe, (that will not be an heretic) that his judgement was true, in that he said that S. Denis had one body in germanie, and an other in France. All this before written well weighed and considered, howsoever you jesuits judge of master Nicols learning, we Christians must think that some of your Popes had neither wisdom nor learning. The 9 part. YOu say we shame not to proclaim triumphs upon 9 〈◊〉. so base conquests against our mother the Catholic Disco. pag. 4. Church, who hath borne us and brought us up, etc. We need not thanks be to God be ashamed of any triumphs that we proclaim, and it is very hard for you to prove that we proclaim our triumphs openly; but rather give therefore praises to GOD, and 〈◊〉 there at inwardly. And yet to say truth, we may 〈◊〉 proclaim our triumphs, than you may rejoice in yours, for we triumph not in burning our brethren, in privy conspiracies, in sowing of sedition, in rebelling against our prince, and in procuring her death, as you do, but our chief triumphing is, in the growing of that gospel, in recovering lost sheep, in winning that wicked & in increasing gods kingdom. Therefore to proclaim such triumphs (as we do not) were no such shame as you say. And where it seemeth you mean the base conquest we triumph in is the winning of master Nicols, the conquest is not so base as you would make your Reader believe: unless you think it to be but a base conquest to couquere the Diivel, and to pluck a soul out of the claws of Satan. As before you counted master Nicols to be but base 〈◊〉, so now you blow forth, that the winning of him is but a base conquest, but as you think that our conquest therein is but small: so I believe the conquest of the pope's soldiers in Ireland (not long since) was not very great, and whatsoever cause we have to triumph in this, I am sure he hath no cause to triumph in that. And yet if your Pope have 〈◊〉 much power as his proctors pronounce, and as much might as you and many would make him, and if he hath power Grego. Haimburgensis in appella. sigism. ducis. austriae 2. Chro. 32. over the Angels of God: I marvel why he did not then command the Angels to come out of heaven into Ireland to fight for him, and to vanquish and kill the 〈◊〉 power there: as well as God sent his Angels, to destroy the host of Sennacherib that came against King 〈◊〉 to destroy Jerusalem. I would feign know in what part of the Bible or the word of God, you have read, that your Romish Church is a mother, or in what place of the Gospel you can find, that your said Catholic mother of Rome hath, or aught to have any children in England: Truly your mother of Rome may think that she hath children in England, but they that be wise, in England will not think they 〈◊〉 any 〈◊〉 mother in Rome. They that take God for their father, will not take your Church of Rome for their mother: God the father of heaven is not able to do more for his 〈◊〉. than your earthly mother of Rome is able to do for her daughters. Christ taught his Apostles to say, Our father which art in heaven, and not our mother of Rome which art in earth, if your Church of Rome be our mother, I 〈◊〉 then who begat us on her, & who was our father, for I hope you will not say that she is Hermaphroditus, both man and woman, & so both our father and mother. Surely she is so contrary to God, that he is none of her husband, neither will he have any such wife, as regardeth not his son, or contemneth his gospel, as your mother of Rome doth altogether. Therefore I know no meet husband for her, unless it be the Devil, who in my judgement is the fittest husband for her that can be found, for as she counteth herself Lady & Mistress of all the world, so the Devil is Prince & a mighty ruler in that world, whereby it doth appear (if she have any husband at all, if she have married with her match, as such a proud dame will 〈◊〉 loath to marry under her degree,) that the devil is her husband, & then he must needs be father to all her children, & 〈◊〉 by this means you that take the holy Church of Rome for your mother, must needs be enforced to have that devil to your father: Or else she must be unmarried & play that Whore, & so the best you can make of it, you prove yourselves bastards, & your mother a whore. And to the intent you may perceive, that your holy mother of Rome is more like a whore, than a good woman, the whore of 〈◊〉 whereof S. john in his revelation Apoc. 17 doth write, by the judgement of S. Jerome writing to Algasia, is the purple whore of Rome, who saith, Nec vult, etc. Which is, neither will he openly say, that the Roman Empire should be destroyed, which they that govern it think it to be everlasting, wherefore according to the revelation of S. john, in the forehead of the purple whore there is writ ten a name of blasphemy, which is Rome everlasting. And moreover the place where this purple whore should sit must needs be Rome: for the angel doth plainly tell Saint john, that the seven. heads of the beast whereon the purple whore Apoc. 17. sitteth, signifieth seven. 〈◊〉, & there is no City in all the world that is builded upon seven. hills, but only Rome in Italy, whereby though you would avoid that your mother the Church of Rome is not the wife of the Devil: yet by no means it can be denied, but that your holy mother of Rome is a strumpet and a very harlot according to the words of S. john, and so all her children must needs be bastards. And forasmuch as you counther your spiritual mother, you must needs have a spiritual father, and because none can beget spiritual children on a spiritual harlot, but the Devil, then whether you will or no, though the Devil be not your Romish mothers husband, yet he must needs be her paramour, and father to all her children. Therefore as long as you take that Church of Rome for your mother, you must needs be the bond bastards of the Devil, wherefore forsake that harlot your mother, the you may be the free children of God your father. If you knew what a wicked & cruel mother you have of her, you would not long be her children, for if she may be counted a wicked and cruel mother that will allure her child to steal whereby he shallbe hanged, or else doth cut his throat, if he do not steal as she willeth him: then your holy mother of Rome, is the most wicked & cruel mother of all other, for if you do rob God of his glory & Christ of his merits (as she doth teach you) than you shallbe 〈◊〉 in the endless pains of hell: and if you deny to do it, she will burn, murder, or kill you, because you do not as she willeth you. Therefore the great extremity of them that are under such a mother, will enforce them if they be wise, to fly from her, and humbly desire God to their father. And where you say the your holy mother of Rome hath borne us, whether you mean spiritual birth or temporal bearing us on her back, I am sure you say most untruly. She may bear or bring forth jesuits if she will, but she can never bear or bring forth true Christians if she would, as you that are jesuits take her for your mother, & rejoice that she hath borne you: so we that are Christians take god for our father & are most glad that we are borna new in christ through hearing of the gospel & working of the holy ghost. And 〈◊〉 for other bearing I am sure the pope which is the head of 〈◊〉 church hath been so long used to be borne on men's shoulders, that he will disdain to bear or carry any, either on his shoulders or other wise. Therefore in this that your holy mother hath borne us (take it which way you will) is a most manifest untruth: unless you have some other mystical meaning in it, that is to busy for my brain. And with our bringing up I think your holy mother hath not been much troubled, for thanks be to God our soil hath and doth daily yield us sufficient sustenance and 〈◊〉 of all things: yea & that hath been such a long time, since your holy mother hath cursed us, for so long as she blessed us we never fared so well, that the like hath not been seen: (God grant we be thankful for it,) unless you mean our bringing up in Queen 〈◊〉 time by your holy mother, which if all things be well marked, may be called rather a beating down then a bringing up, no doubt your holy mother took then great pains with bringing of us up, for they that obeyed her, they helped to feed her and bring her up, and such as stuck to God's word and refused her, she did beat down and burned them to ashes, was not this a loving mother that thus brought up her children: If you mean of the bringing up of master Nicols by your holy mother at Rome, in feeding and relieving him, I must needs say, that though it was to feeding of his body, it was to the kill of his soul. For your holy mother feedeth her children as cattle is fed, for though the ox is glad when he is put into a good pasture to be fed: yet the simple ox is fed to be killed: So your holy mother feedeth her children to the death of their souls, and nourisheth them lovingly to their endless destruction. And as the ox is ignorant that he is fed for his death, so you little know the destruction will follow this your bodily feeding. Therefore if you would consider the end of your holy mothers feeding of you, would rather fast and far hard, in England under your merciful prince: then to have all the pleasures you can wish, under your cruel & wicked mother of Rome. Therefore 〈◊〉 from that feeding that will make you fast all ways, and shun from these delicates that will drive you to the Devil. The tenth part. YOU writ in your said book (to the great slander 10. part. and reproach of our ministers and Preachers) that if Discovery pag. 5. the notable infamous acts of ministers and Preachers only, in this one Realm of England, for the space of one dozen years past, were gathered into some one book, for the view of the world: they would be more in quantity, and in quality more heinous, than all that they have gathered by great labour and much falsehood in their several books, out of the lives of the worst Catholics for these thousand years past, over all the whole world, etc. If you had lamented the wicked livings and lascivious lives of the ministers and Preachers of God's word, as you rejoice therein, you would not have written so manifest a falsehood as you have done. But as the Devil is the father of lies: so can not his children be tellers of truth. And as you have detracted my book, without any trial: so you have 〈◊〉 our ministers and preachers without any proof or any argument but this your own bare words, thinking belike that you jesuits should be of such credit, that your bare sayings should be taken forsooth, and your counterfeit coin should go for currant. Whatsoever before I have written of you, I have done the same with authorities and arguments: but this that you have written against our ministers and preachers, we have but only your pen for a proof and your word for a warrant. But as I must needs confess that many of our ministers and preachers have not lived so well as they should, nor so godly as I wish: yet it is most manifest for certain hundredth years past that many of your holy Popes, Cardinals, Prelates, and Papistical priests, have lived so horribly, incontinently and devilishly, that it will loathe any true Christian to hear. I doubt not but if you could have mamfested your malicious mind against our preachers and ministers, you would not wish such slight words so soon have given it over, but for that it would have been to busy for you openly to prove such a number of notable infamous acts against our preachers and ministers, as you pretend privily with your pen: You refer your readers in the mangent of your book, to the records of our temporal courts. Indeed the Pope & his prelate's are wilier than our spiritualty, for none of their doings or deeds may be called to account, but only before themselves. No lay man may accuse you, no temporal judge may condemn you, nor no king may control you, whereby your devilish practices may be kept privy, and that the common people should not know your detestable dealings. And because you would seem to be saints though your livings were loathsome: you provided a remedy for a mischief, but if the practices of your Popes, the conditions of your cardinals, the blemishes of your Bishops, the Acts of your Abbots, the manners of your monks, the facts of your friars, the chastity of your cannons, & the pernicious doings of your priests for a thousand years passed might have come in question before temporal magistrates & civil judges, & that the lay men might have complained so a 'gainst them according to their causes, as they may do against our preachers & ministers with us: them I am most sure & certain that all the abominable acts, detestable deeds, execrable enormities and filthy facts of them could not be contained in a great number of greater books, than the greatest bibles we have. For seeing there is so many books filled with their filthy facts, and detestable doings, for all their restrained laws and privy keeping of the same: what a number of volumes would have 〈◊〉 farced therewith, if every one that would, might have written according to their deserts, & complained to the temporal powers according as they had occasion: Also it cannot be that our ministers and preachers of God's word, which is the director of truth, should generally live so infamously as your preachers and professors of the pope's religion, which directeth into darkness. If they that go in the bright day, walk wrong, than they that go in the dark night are not like to go right. And if they go wrong that know the way, than they that know not the way are not like to go right. They that know the way may go right if they list: but they that know not the way cannot go right, If they would. Thus our preachers and ministers have a great advantage of the blind papists, for that they know the light of the gospel, who though they go wrong, yet they may return into the way again: but you that profess the dark doctrine of the Pope, you must needs go wrong do what you can. So that through the knowledge of god's word, our preachers and ministers, will say they go wrong, when they go not right: but you jesuits and Papists, (for want of God's word) do say you go right when you go wrong. These countries that have and do most constantly embrace God's word, have ever had and have some preachers and ministers, that lived more wickedly than godly, & more reproachfully than religiously: but their going wrong maketh not their religion evil, but their evil religion doth cause them to go wrong. The naughty deed of Baalan did not make that the religion of the prophets was false, the traitorous dealing of judas with Christ his master (being one of his Apostles) did not approve that his religion and the religion of all the rest of the Apostles was evil: no, for Christ did teach him his religion, but the Devil did teach him his treason. Even so if any of our Preachers or ministers live more ungodly than they should (as no doubt too many of them do:) yet their religion doth not teach them to do so, for Christ in his Gospel hath taught them their religion: but the Devil without the Gospel doth teach them to live ungodly and wickedly. Now seeing that jesus Christ had but twelve Apostles, and one of them for money 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 contrary to his religion (though he were daily in the company of Christ:) than it is no marvel, though amongst such a great number of ministers and preachers as we have in England, there be many that live ungodly and contrary to their religion, in the absence of Christ. Therefore though you dispraise our preachers and ministers never so much, yet that is no sufficient proof that their religion is evil or their doctrine false, (though some of them were so evil as you do pretend.) We must follow the good doctrine though the Preacher do evil, but we must not follow a false Preacher though his needs do seem good. I must needs confess, that the 〈◊〉 life of the preacher and minister, would do very much good in increasing Gods Church, and some (I fear) do asmuch harm with their evil living as they do good with their true preaching (but that is to the fond and 〈◊〉 lish.) But surely I muse that any can be so foolish, to refuse good preaching and to follow evil doing. The simplest man that is (that hath any wit,) knoweth that whoredom is sin, swearing is a vice, theft an offence, and drunkenness is a wicked thing, with other such like: then they that know that these are sins and vices, why should they commit them though they see the preacher or minister use them: and also if they can despise the minister and preacher for doing of them: then why do they commit that wherefore they despise the minister or preacher: Will they sin because the preacher or minister doth sin: If they like the preacher or minister A thing worth the noting. so well that they will sin with him for company: then they must be content to go to hell with him for company. But if a stranger come to a 〈◊〉 where he was never before, and doth ask the way to a place, if one should say to him my friend, that is the way, but take heed, for a little before there is a deep pit, into which if you should fall you will be in hazard of your life, yet notwithstanding he that giveth him this warning, goeth before him and wilfully falleth into the same pit, do you think that this stranger would be so mad, as to go & fall into the same pit with him for company: I think not, he would rather shun a little aside to go safe. Now if a stranger will shun an earthly pit, (where he may haply get out again,) because he seethe one fall into it before: how 〈◊〉 are they then, (though they be never so unlearned) that will commit the sins they know, because that preacher or minister doth them, whereby they shall fall into the deep dungeon of hell, where they shallbe in endless torments and can never get out if they 〈◊〉 once in. Therefore if the Preachers & ministers of God's word live according to their 〈◊〉, than we may be bold to follow both their 〈◊〉 and deeds: but if they do contrary to their doctrine, than we must shun their deeds and follow only their doctrine. And according as Christ saith, we mustdoe as they say and Mat. 23. not as they do. Therefore deeds must not allow the doctrine, but doctrine the deeds. Wherefore you do not well, to mislike our religion of the Gospel, because some of our Preachers and ministers live not according to the Gospel, but you dispraise our ministers doings, because you would have their doctrine despised. Wherein ye deal very preposterously, for you would have an evil living to 〈◊〉 a good doctrine: But we will have a good doctrine reprove an evil 〈◊〉. But if a good doctrine condemn wickedness and sin, (as the gospel doth,) them that cannot be a good doctrine that maintaineth wickedness & sin, which your romish religion doth, and therefore it is a false doctrine. And if the evil living of our preachers and ministers doth show that our doctrine is false (as you would make it) than the most abominable livings and detestable doings of your Popes and their Prelates, do show that your doctrine is not very true. And now because you charge our ministers and preachers with infamous living, to have their doctrine discredited, as though your pope's and their 〈◊〉, had and have only power to live godly and virtuously: I will here briefly put you in remembrance of some of their spiritual and 〈◊〉 vealinge set forth in my said book called A persuasion from Papistry, which part of my book, I think either you never read, or else you have forgotten the same: for that you have bestowed the title of infamous acts upon our ministers and preachers, which is your own by right, yea and none caniustly claim it from you. And seeing you will needs have your Church of Rome to be your mother, I will now show you what a holy mother you had once that was head and Pope of your said mother. And as I have proved that your said mother (if you will needs have her your mother) is a very whore: so this holy mother, that I will speak of, was a very harlot (if they that have 〈◊〉 without husbands are harlots.) For though Marie the mother of Christ did conceive by the holy Ghost: yet I hope you will not say but that this your mother did conceive by some other. Your Pope joan the eight whose proper name was Gilberta Persuasion from papistry. pag. 70. (a dutch woman of Magunce) first went with an Euglish monk out of the Abbey of Fulda in man's apparel to Athens, And after through her dexterity of wit and learning, was made Pope and so she ruled as pope two years & six months. At the last, (that it might appear what a holy matron was head of your holy mother) in a general procession openly she fell in labour and travel of child, and so died, by reason whereof the Cardinals until this day do avoid to come near that street, where your holy mother the Church of Rome received that shame: So that all that while they had no man Pope but a woman Pope. But though all this while they lacked a holy father, yet they were sure they had a holy mother. If ever aunt might call the church of Rome, their mother, they that were alive and under this your virgin Pope joan, might lawfully call her mother, for than they had a mother indeed, that was the ruler and head of their church. It hath pleased you to entitle our Preachers & ministers which infamous acts, but this act of your Pope joan was not very famous if ye mark it well. I am sure that in all these twelve years in which you so charge our preachers & ministers which infamous acts, nor yet for this xx. years, nor at any 〈◊〉 under the preaching of the gospel, you are able to say that you have read or heard, that ever our ministry was once touched with such a notable & infamous act, as this the was committed by this your holy harlot, & chief head & ruler of your said holy mother. I muse that ever you can be so fond & foolish 〈◊〉 once to think that your romish church could be a holy mcther, that was ruled and governed by such an unholy harlot. You shall 〈◊〉 now another famous Pope (I may not say in famous, for that is the liberal livery that you vouchsafe to bestow on out preachers & ministers) pope john the thirteenth Pag. 70. was full of all abominable vices, he was a whoremaster, an A precious Pope. 〈◊〉, incestuous, libidinous, a gamester, an extortioner, perjured, a fighter, a murderer, cruel and tyrannous, of his Cardinals, some he put out their eyes, of some of them he cut out their tongues, of some he cut of their fingers, of some 〈◊〉 noses, and many other such like merciful acts, (I must not say infamous acts) he ordained deacons in a stable, he committed incest with two of his own sisters, he called for the devil to help when he played at dice, he made boys bishops for money, In epistola Othonis Imper ad johan. pp. he deflowered virgins & strangers, he made a stews of his palace of Lateran, he lay with Stephana his father's concubine, & with other, he put out that eyes of bishop Benedict, he caused houses to be set on fire, he broke open houses, he drank to 〈◊〉 devil, etc. If this Pope were Christ's vickat, them Christ did chose for himself but a mad vicar, he was far unlike his master, it is hard for you to find such a famous fellow, (I may not say infamous) among all the patriarchs, prophets or apostles, do you think you can pick out such a one among all our preachers & ministers of God's word, that have 〈◊〉, are, or ever shall 〈◊〉 I think it will be very hard for you to do, you might me thinks well have spared your notable infamous acts from our ministers and preachers, and bestowed them a great deal better upon these your notable famous, (I must not say infamous) pope's, for that they did such notable & famous facts, that none other can deserve to have that title from them. Pope john the 14. caused one Petrus, first to be stripped naked, Pag. 72. than his head to be shaven, & to be hanged by the hair a hole day together, after that to be set upon an Ass, his face 〈◊〉 backward, & his hands bound under the Asses 〈◊〉, & so to be led through the city that all men might see him: that done, to be scourged with rods & so banished the city. Whether he was a chaste pope or no I know not, but it appeareth he was a very charitable pope, according to the charity of your holy mother the church of Rome. Pope Boniface the 7. caused Pope john's eyes to be put out, & after to be thrown into prison, where he was (as some Pag. 72. say) famished, some say he was slain by Ferrucus. Your holy Pope Hilde brand was a notable Benno cardinal. Sorcerer and a Necromancer, who on a time sent 〈◊〉 for a book that he had left behind him, who, though he commanded them to the contrary, reading a little of the same, suddenly there came a great sort of Devils about them, wherewith they were almost out of their wits and then the devils said unto them, tell us what you would have us to do, or else we will fall upon you, than one of them that had the book bade them pluck down certain walls 〈◊〉 to Rome, which they did quickly, and at last with 〈◊〉 fear, they came to the pope and gave him his holy book. It is said that the Pope hath the holy Ghost at commandment, but sure this Pope 〈◊〉 had the devil at his beck. It is no marvel though your Church of Rome were a holy mother, that was ruled and governed by such a holy father. This holy Hildebrand hired one to lay great stones over the emperors head in the roof of the Church where he used Pag. 73. to pray, and to let them fall upon him and so to kill him, but the fellow that did so, fell down and was dashed all to pieces with the same. This was a famous deed of a Pope, but you would have said (as you might well enough) that it had been a notable infamous act of a Preacher or minister of the Gospel. Also this holy Pope Hildebrand 〈◊〉 three men to death before they were convict, (or found or approved guilty) and caused them to be hanged without delay contrary to all law. Also be caused the foot of a widows son to be cut off, not withstanding he had fulfilled all that was enjoined him by the said Pope before, and after his foot being cut off, he died within three days after. All you that would learn equity and justice learn here of the Pope, I could never read that Christ after he had the woman that john. 8. was taken in adultery, go away and sin no more: that either he commanded the judges to put her to death (as this Pope did) or else that he caused her leg to be cut off. And thus in brief, this same godly Pope Hildebrand, was Benno cardinal. charged by the counsel in Brixia to be an adulteror, a church robber, a perjured man, a mankiller, a Sorcerer, and a denier of the faith. When he was but a Cardinal, he smote Pope Alexander with his fist, & laid him in prison, he poisoned six Popes his predecessors, to make away for himself to be Pope: he was a conjuror, and a raiser of devils, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 his 〈◊〉 he threw the sacrament, his Christ of 〈◊〉 into the 〈◊〉. If you consider this pope Hildebrand with the other before mentioned you will say that our Prcachers and ministers ought not to hold the title of infamous acts from them. For they of all other ought chief to have it. Pope 〈◊〉 the eight did say, that he would within Persuas. from papistry. Pag. 77. short time, make either all the French men Martyrs, or else forsakers of their faith, (for if they yielded to his religion and Romish Church, than they should forsake their faith: And if they denied his religion, and stuck to the Gospel, than he would burn them or otherwise kill them, and so he would make. Martyrs of them.) Also he said that he sought not the health of their souls, but the destruction of them. Though some of our Ministers and Preachers live not like Saints: yet this Pope in his sayings was something like Satan. I think you cannot say (unless you say falsely) that any of our ministers or preachers have spoken such infamous words as this. Pope Boniface did, and that they would either kill men or make them flee from their faith. Nagareta a knight testified before the French king called Philip, that Pope Boniface the eight was a these, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, his mouth full of our sings, his feet 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 blood, a tearer in pieces of the Church, which he ought 〈◊〉 cherish, a wicked waster of the goods of the poor, a 〈◊〉 of wicked men, because they gave him rewards, a persecutor of the righteous, a bringer in of new 〈◊〉 of destruction that had not been heard of, a 〈◊〉 of the truth, thinking himself to be equal to Christ, a greedy desirer of gold, getting it by devise of all people, no regarder nor worshipper of God, not 〈◊〉 any way to get money, a maker of merchandise of all men, a lover of no man, a nourisher of 〈◊〉, a persecutor and hater of peace of his subjects, rooted in all unspeakable sins: a striver against the doctrine of God, and the abomination of the people spoken of by Daniel the lords Prophet. Surely how infamous soever our ministers and preachers acts be, it appeareth that the deeds of the said Pope was not very good, nor his conditions very godly. Pope Sextus granted to Petrus Ruerius a Cardinal Pag. 8. and all his whole family free leave to use the sin of Sodomitry (a thing most shameful to be uttered, but most abominable to be licenced, or permitted.) This was no infamous act because a pope did licence it, and because a Cardinal did commit it: though God doth so detest it, that therefore he consumed Sodom and Gomorrah and whole Countries with fire & brimstone from heaven. A great sort more of such precious pope's I could show, that have very great wrong, if your title of notable & infamous acts should be taken from them: which you of your liberality have given to our ministers as undeserved nay, and that is more, they are far unable to deserve it. wherefore I 〈◊〉 you to bestow it on your pope's, for they of all other have most right unto it. But I assure you if our Preachers and ministers did deserve the same, the one were inore meet to be pope's of Rome, than Preachers of England, and the other morefit to be mumblers of the mass, than ministers of God's word. Truly your mother the holy Church of Rome, that hath had such unholy fathers can not well be counted to be a very holy mother, & that hath had such devilish heads cannot well have a very godly body. And now because your said mother must needs be ungodly, you her children cannot be very virtuous. And also your Cardinals have not lived very holily nor chastened, for at the council of Trident, two of your holy Cardinals were taken & slain 〈◊〉, which may be famous & godly with you jesuits, but it is most infamous & wicked with us that are Christians. You cannot charge either any of our Bishops, Doctors, or preachers of God's word, with any such infamous act at any of our Counsels or Parliaments, for if you could I doubt not but you would. And by the report of S. Barnard, the Bishops did not live very virtuously in his time, who sayeth: Quaein occulto 〈◊〉 ab 〈◊〉, turpe est vel 〈◊〉: It is shame to utter the things that are done of Bishops in their secrets. Barnardad Clerum in Synodo Rhemen. And as your Popes, Cardinals and Bishops do best of all other deserve 〈◊〉 your title of infamous acts: so your Priests & Clear, gie have not lived so holy and chastened as you would seem, and therefore our Preachers and Ministers may rightly return the same unto them, for that they are better acquainted with infamous acts & unchaste life than they. And because you shall not say that I speak at random without proof against your papistical unmarried priests, as you do against our married preachers & ministers: I will show you a little taste, the better to conjecture the rest. It is noted upon the decrees thus: Communiter dicitur quod pro simplici fornicatione quis deponinon debet, cum pauci sine illo vitio 〈◊〉. It is commonly Dist. 81. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in glos. said, that a man may not be deposed or deprived for simple fornication, forasmuch as few (priests) be found without that fault. Here the pope's decree doth hold & allow that priests may use simple fornication, without any harm or punishment: but I never read that either Christ or his Apostles allowed somuch, & besides that it affirms that 〈◊〉 all Priests were fornicators, for it saith few lived without that fault. And seeing the pope's law hath decreed it, it must needs be true, for a pope's law cannot be false, and thus though you without warrant (but only your own word) do charge our preachers & ministers with notable infamous acts: here have I brought you one of your pope's own decrees (in whose 〈◊〉 or breast is all knowledge & law, yea & a heavenvly judgement, & whom you are bound to believe upon pain of heresy) that saith plainly, few priests live chaste, but are fornicators. Therefore if the pope's decree be true (as I am most sure in this case it is truer than your tale) your priests must be fain to take this title of infamous acts from our preachers. And because it may the better appear, that the pope's have rather excused their priests in living unchastely, them to restrain them from it, I will put you in remembrance of a note or two touching the same, written in my said book called A persuasion from papistry, which I am sure you like so much the worse because it openeth something plainly the vile and infamous sayings and doings of your holy Romish Church, And these are the words. You may see by this pretty lesson that followeth, whether 〈◊〉 Pope by his restraining of priests marriage, doth Persuas. from papistry, Pag. 203. mean that thereby they should live chaste or not, and this it is mark it well: Si non castè tamen caute, If thou deal not chastened yet deal charily: The rule is pretty and short, though the Pope knoweth that his Chaplyns cannot hide their vicious living from GOD: yet he would have them hide it from men. (A man may look through the whole Bible, and yet find not such a fine rule for whoredom:) and because it is not to be found in the Bible, but directly against the doctrine of the Bible, therefore I may conclude, that it is (though it came from the pope) the doctrine of the Devil. And that you may think that this will rather allure them to lewdness then win them from wickedness, mark this that followeth, if we had none other law for thieves but these words, If men live not truly, yet let them steal privily: do you think that then woe should have as few thieves as we have? I think not: And as this would increase thè thieves, so doth that fine rule of the Popes, breed fornicators, 〈◊〉, whores and harlots. Therefore you may see by the Pope's lessons, that he meaneth not to chide his Chaplyns for their 〈◊〉, but rather to 〈◊〉 well of them that can do it most privily. Mark here also what a strait law was made against women for lying with Priests, In a provincial council holden at Oxeford, it is written thus, Let priests Concubines be warned by the 〈◊〉, etc. And if they will Constit. 〈◊〉. Edmundi Cant. Archicpis. not amend, then let them be forbidden to kiss the Pax, & to take holy bread in the Church. Was not this a grievous & fore punishment to make harlots refuse their whoredom with Priests: Did their harlots care so much for kissing of the pax that they would forsake the kissing of Priests: No I 〈◊〉 you, and therefore this hard and strait law was made. As good a law to 〈◊〉 drunkenness were this, whosoever will not forbear drinking of wine, (whereby they become 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) let them in no wise be suffered to drink water. This is as good a law to suppress drunkenness: as the law of Oxeford was to avoid whoredom. Mark what Petrus Ravennas one of the pope's 〈◊〉 In glos. 〈◊〉. de immunitate eccle. pet. Raven. upon the decretales saith, notwithstanding handling and kissing in lay persons be the occasions or beginnings of incontinent or unchaste behaviour, yet in priests it is far otherwise. very well said & doctor like, for priests do not kiss or dally with women, as other men do, for the priests kissing & dallying with women is that beginning of godly devotion. Therefore when we see a priest kiss or 〈◊〉 with a woman, we must assure ourselves, that by and by after they will fall to prayer, such virtue have priests in their kissing and 〈◊〉 above other men. And this was the cause that women have so willingly suffered priests to dally with them, and to kiss them. Here is also a Golden gloze for maintaining of priests 11. qnae. 3. absit in glossa. chastity: and thus it is, If a priest embrace a woman, a layman must judge of it thus, that he doth it to the intent to bless her. Well said, for such blessings of the priests have been so full of virtue, that many women thereby have had such tympanies, that they could never be helped of their disease, before they had midwifes to be their physicians. Are not these goodly gloss to make priests live chaste: it is no marvel though all your popish priests lived very virtuously and without committing any infamous 〈◊〉 that had such strait laws to bridle them, and such glosses to gird them. If our law of the Gospel were not such a law of liberty as it is, or else if it were made more straighter with three or four of these the pope's glosses, than our preachers and ministers would not commit so many infamous acts as you say they do, but would live as virtuously as your pope's, and as 〈◊〉 as your priests. The pope's pond being Acts & monum. pa. 393. found full of children's skulls, showeth that your pope's and their chaplains lived very 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉: who can think that there was any infamons acts amongst them all that while, that those children were 〈◊〉 getting, and while they were a murdering? unless you will say that it was then the custom to bury children in the water. In Christ's time, and long before it was thought most convenient to bury the dead in the earth, marry I will not say but that the Pope (being endued with all wisdom and heavenly judgement) may think it more better to bury the dead in the water. And in deed it standeth with good reason, that if the water be a fit grave for the 〈◊〉, than it is as meet a grave for the dead. For pope Vrbanus the first, thrust five Cardinals into sacks Sabelli. Enne. 9 lib. 2. and threw them quick into the sea, and there he buried them alive, this was a famous deed, I must not say an infamous act. Though you of your courtesy charge our preachers and ministers with infamous acts, yet if you should search all the ponds of our bishops, preachers, and ministers throughout England, I am most sure you should not 〈◊〉 in them all so many children's heads as was in that one pond of your Popes. Except they were cast there before, by the pope's prelates & priests, in the time when your romish religion was 〈◊〉 & followed. And by the late writings of some that were of your own crew, that seemed to favour your religion before they saw some of your pernicious practises and lewd livings: it doth appear that your Spiritual clergy called Priests, do live now more like Sathanests than Saints. & where as you charge our ministers with infamous living, without proving of any: they charge divers of the Pope's clergy and Priests with horrible and detestable dealings, and proves the same in many, which you may see if you will in Master Nicols pilgrimage, and in an other book 〈◊〉 tituled The English Roman life. But you perhaps will count them false, because they are written against you, though yours must needs be 〈◊〉, because you writ them against us. Therefore this little that I have written before, (which is but 〈◊〉 in comparison of all the monstrous manners and detestable doings of the romish Clergy) well weighed and considered: you may be ashamed to charge our preachers and ministers with such notable infamous acts, as though they were the puddle of all pernicious practices and the sink of all sin: and your Popes, prelate's, and priests (whose livings have been most wicked and vicious) the 〈◊〉 of all good living, and the only 〈◊〉 of virtue. But I think it had been as good for you to have holden your peace, and not to have entitled our preachers and ministers with such infamous acts as you have done. For your great gain you looked for thereby may 〈◊〉 turn to your loss: if the Popes own decree, your own counsels, and manifest acts and deeds with persons and place, may be credited before the bare word of one 〈◊〉 without any trial, argument, or proof. The II. part. WHo doth not see (say you) the great variety The 11. part. of important learned personages, which discou. pag. 5. from time to time, upon trial of the truth, do return unto us, even from their ministery etc. If you mean that there are such a number of Apostatase come over to Rome or beyond the seas, then to tell you even truly, I and many thousands beside, do neither see it, nor hear of it: neither do we miss them. I will tell you my mind, such as are weary of their welfare in englande, I wish they should taste of evil fare at Rome: and such as are not pleased to be governed by a most merciful prince at home, I would they were yoked with a cruel tyrant abroad: and such as are not 〈◊〉 with their own 〈◊〉 country of England, I would they might suffer some penury in a barran and foreign soil: for though such may pleasure you, yet I am sure they do but 〈◊〉 us. But if there be such a great number of them, it is a great token they love not their prince so well as the Pope, and therefore more meet to be with the Pope, then with their prince. And because they prefer the pope's laws before the Queen's proceed: therefore I think them more 〈◊〉 for Rome then for England. You may say they are true to the Pope, but I am sure they are false to their prince: or else they would be content to be governed by 〈◊〉 grace. But though many return from us to you, yet our prince doth not send them 〈◊〉 to Rome to stir 〈◊〉 there, and to seek the 〈◊〉 of the pope: as the pope hath sent some hither 〈◊〉 England of late to allure the people to rebellion for the confusion of their 〈◊〉. You make as though there were a 〈◊〉 great number of them returned from us to you, if all the important learned personages had returned to be of your 〈◊〉 that are still of ours: than you might have boasted that they had been a great number in deed. Yet it seemeth by your saying, as though you had almost all, and weefe we or none, or that shortly (for that they refuse us so fast) that England will be destitute of meet men for the ministery. You count our learned men that are daily won from the Gospel to you; but you consider not the great number of the simple and unlearned sort that our preachers win daily from you to us. If you increase one way, I believe we increase twice as much an other way. And whereas these important learned men you mean, before they revolted from us, were able to instruct the simple and unlearned: shortly I 〈◊〉 not but that many of the simple learned that are 〈◊〉 converted to us, will be able to reprove your said important learned personages. And this their great returning to your religion (you say) is upon the trial of the truth. This is your own bare 〈◊〉, for other arguments or proof to confirm the same you bring none. But belike the trial of your truth hangeth 〈◊〉 men's 〈◊〉 to you, which if it be so, then why may not the daily returning of other to us, try as well that ours is the truth 〈◊〉 If you mean the truth is tried by the number of them that return, than we have no cause to refuse you therein: far whereas one doth turn from the Gospel to 〈◊〉, twenty have and do daily both here and in other countries, come from papistry to the Gospel. But the turning or returning of the people is no perfect way to try the truth. For God's word 〈◊〉 him that turneth: but he that turneth must not try God's word. None of the pope's preachers did ever turn so many in a day to 〈◊〉, as Peter did turn to the Gospel, for Saint Peter converted 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉. in 〈◊〉 day three thousand by preaching the Gospel. Therefore if the truth of religion depend of the number of them that are turned, than I am sure the religion of the Gospel is true, and all other religions are false. For none other religion in all the world hath so quickly, suddenly, and miraculously increased and sprung up as the gospel. And further if you will make the truth of your religion to consist by the turning of us to you, why may we not then as well say that the turks religion is also true, for that divers Christians have and do revolt to the same: And as you say that many of our ministery is returned from john. 6. us to you: even so I say that many of Christ's disciples went from him, and walked no more with him: yet I hope you will not say that Christ's religion was false because his disciples daparted from him, and forsook his religion. But as Christ's disciples were false disciples, because they departed from Christ: even so our men of the ministery (be they never so learned,) are false ministers and Apostatas, because they are returned from us, which teach the same Gospel that Christ taught to his disciples. And whereas you boast that they that are returned from us to you, are important learned personages, yet (if a christian may give a jesuite counsel) I would wish you not to lean too much to your or their learning, for great learning without Christ is nothing: but small learning with Christ is much God beholdeth the lowly, not the learned. The blessed virgin Marie the mother of Christ said, that GOD Luke. 1. looked on the lowliness (not of the learning) of his handmaid. The haughty and learned Pharisees were not chosen by Christ to be his Apostles, they had such learning, that they thought scorn of Christ, as you with your learned important personages think scorn of the Gospel. And as the proud learned Pharisees said to the simple and plain jews that believed Christ, in these words: Are ye also john. 7. brought into error? do any of the rulers or of the Pha, risees believe on him but the common people which know not the law, are accursed? So you with your important learned personages, may say to the common & simple people that believe the gospel, will you be seduced from our holy mother the Church of Rome: will you be brought into the error of these heretics of a new religion: do you see any of us that are important learned personages believe on their new found doctrine: none follow them but the common and unlearned people, which understand not the scriptures. Take heed therefore what you do, for our most holy father the Pope hath not only cursed them: but also we holy Jesuits that hold on the blessed name of Jesus, have with a great oath accursed them, and denounced them for heretics. Even thus you are in all points like to the proud learned Pharisees, that were the enemies of Christ, for that you boast of your important learned personages, despising our simple and small learning as they did. And as the common people of the Jews that believed in Christ (whom the Rulers and Pharisees accounted accursed) was in the true way, though they said they were in error: Even so our Simple learned ministers, and the common people that profess the Gospel, are in the true way, though you count them in error, and you in error though you brag of the truth. A great sort of our ministers and of the clergy (though they be not so learned in the Latin and other tongues as some of you Jesuits are, and other of your important learned personages revolted from us, though we have thanks be to GOD a great sort, besides no small number of young Jmpes that are able to match you every way) have better knowledge and sounder judgement in the scriptures than you have. Yea and they are sorry at the very heart, to see you so wilful ignorant in the truth: whom GOD accepteth a great deal better than you with all the learning you have you were better to have less learning with truth, then more learning with falsehood. Saint Augustine saith, Aug. contra. Academi. li. 3 cap. 7. Multo minus malum est indoctum esse, quam indocilem: It is a great deal less harm to be unlearned, then to be wilful or unapt to learn. Saint Ambrose saith: Non in dialectica complacuit deo, 〈◊〉 facere populum suum. Regnum enim dei in simplicitate Ambr. de 〈◊〉 lib. 1. cap. 3. fidei est, non in contentione Sermonis: It pleased nor God by logic to save his people, for the kingdom of God standeth not in contention of talk, but in simplicity of faith. Irenaeus writeth, Melius est, & utilius, Idiot as & parum scientoes Irc. li. 2. ca 45. existers, & per charitatem proximos deo fieri, quam put are semultum scire, etc. It is better a great deal for men to be ignorant and to know but little, and by love to draw near to God, then to think themselves to know much, and to have great experience, and yet to be found blasphemers against God. Saint Ambrose also saith, Verba philosophorum excludet simplex veritas piscatorum: The simple plain truth of fishers, confoundeth the words of the learned Philosophers. Here you may see the learned and ancient Doctors do prefer the simple faith and plain truth of Jdyots, and poor fishers, before wilful deep contentious disputers, and learned Philosophers. Therefore you have no such cause to brag or boast, neither of the great number of our Ministers, neither of your important and learned personages, that are returned to you: But you and they have great cause to be sorry, that you have forsaken your obediency of your most loving lawful and merciful Queen: and sworn obediency to that Antichrist of Rome, through continuing in whose devilish doctrine until your last gasp, you will be brought into perpetual destruction both of body and soul in hell 〈◊〉 for ever. (Except you repent). Therefore be not wilfully blind, but open your eyes willingly, and resist the manifest truth no longer. The 12. part. YOu follow your old song still, for as you said before 12. part. that M. Nicols is but base wares, here you say that he Disco. pag. 〈◊〉. in good sooth is not worth the taking up being found in the street etc. Sometimes a lewd lie doth lurk under a good sooth, you that do swear to maintain manifest 〈◊〉: you will not stick to lie, when you swear not at all though you say in good sooth. You look that this smooth 〈◊〉 of yours should procure your reader to credit you, 〈◊〉 as the Fox when he lieth still as dead, doth hope of a pray: so you by this your smooth sothing hope to win the simple reader the rather to believe you. Master Nicols may be glad that you limited the place, or else you would not have allowed him to be taken up at all. Well, it was happy that he was not found in the Street: else (by your doom) he was not worth the taking up, and so he should have lain in the street and perished. For who will take up that thing that is not worth the taking up: It seemeth that some places are luckier than other, and some more unfortunate than other. The Pope hath his best luck in his chair, for there he can not lie say what he will: And Master Nicols hath his chief misfortune in the street, for any where but there he is worth the taking up. One may now easily guess, that you would not have taken him up, if you had found him in the street. May would not some of you jesuits have beaten him down if you had found him in Rome out of the streets? fair 〈◊〉 friend at need, Christ thought him worth the taking up (as it doth appear) for even he himself (and I take him to be as good as your Pope and the best jesuite of you all) did not think scorn to take him up, and carried him on his own shoulders, as one of his lost and strayed sheep. Therefore Luke 15. what so ever you say, Master Nicols was worth the taking up, or else Christ the Son of GOD would not have taken such pains to have carried him on his own back. You may see here what a great 〈◊〉 there is between the Pope and Christ, for the Pope would think scorn to carry one on his shoulders, (especially M. Nicols) as Christ hath done. Yet the pope should be the inferior of the two, Christ the son of God 〈◊〉 carry one hole man on his shoulders: but the Pope will carry none, but must be carried on that shoulders of four men at the least. Therefore the pope may have a sheep, (I perceive) lie a good while in a ditch ere he will take him up, nay they that be that Pope's Goats must be miven to bear him on their backs. O how happy are those sheep that Christ beareth on his shoulders: but how 〈◊〉 are those goats that bear the Pope on their backs. The thirteen part. WHere you say that our fraud or fervour is to 13. part. make mountains of molehills: I am sure Discovery. Pag, 6. that you by your Papistical power do make mowlehilles of mountains. Christ 〈◊〉 the kingdom of heaven to a little grain of mustard seed Math. 13. For as out of a little grain of mustard seed (though it seem very small) springeth goodly fair branches full of leaves: Even so of the word of God (though it seem little or of small value in your eyes) doth spring and grow the fellowship & Church of God, that shall reign in the kingdom of heaven for ever with Christ. In this respect we make mountains of 〈◊〉: But you clean contrary make mowlehilles of mountains, for whereas mountains in divers places of the scriptures is taken for the word of God, & as according to S. Chrysostom, who saith Jerusalem hic. etc. Here by Jerusalem evermore understand the Church, which is called the City of peace, the foundations whereof are laid upon the mountains of the scriptures. 〈◊〉. in Math. Homil. 46: Your Doctors, and you amongst you have made mowlehiles of them, making your Romish Church the mountains, and as it is manifest by the words of the Pope's pen man Silvester Prierias, in that they have extolleth your Church to be Silvester prierias contra 〈◊〉. above and more than God's word, calling those mountains of the Scriptures, also a nose of wax, inken divinity, a lifeless letter, and a dumb 〈◊〉, with such like as shall appear more 〈◊〉 hereafter. And therefore though you cannot prove that we have made mountains of mowlehilles, yet I have proved the you have made 〈◊〉 of mountains. The 〈◊〉 part. YOu say that we cannot show you any one Priest in 14 part. these latter years perverted by us. By this your Discovery. Pag. 6. most spiteful and venomous word, you mean that our religion the Gospel of Christ is wicked, else you would not have said perverted. Though you have derided me for using a P. Whereof I will (God willing) speak in place convenient: yet it lamenteth me that you misuse a P. here in this place as you do. At the last day when all knees shall 〈◊〉 before the Majesty of jesus Christ, you shall then 〈◊〉, whether this 〈◊〉 religion according to the gospel is such, that they that are won unto it are perverted or not. I fear you did speak against your conscience when you wrote that word. If they be perverted that are won from 〈◊〉 to truth, from darkness to light, from men's dreams to the word of God, from 〈◊〉 to Christ, and from hell to heaven: then belike they are 〈◊〉 that are alured from truth to error, from light to darkness, from God's word to the devils dreams, from Christ to 〈◊〉, and from heaven to hell. Well, you that deal thus preposterously with Christ: at the day of judgement he will deal uprightly with you. But I beseech God (if it be his will,) that you may be converted to be the child of salvation, or else that you have no power to pervert souls to damnation. You make a great brag because not one priest of late years is alured to our 〈◊〉, as though your religion were true because priests stick so hard to it: and our religion false because no priests do receive it. Truth dependeth not upon priests, but good priests depend upon truth. Truth will be truth, and will remain still though there were never a priest in all the world: the religion of Christ's Gospel is well able to stand without any of your priests. Though your masses cannot be said without popish priests: yet our holy Communion instituted by Christ may be celebrated well 〈◊〉 without them. Therefore you are wide to 〈◊〉 that 〈◊〉 religion cannot be without your priests, or that your religion is true, because you have such priests, & ours false because we have none. You persuade yourselves 〈◊〉 like that you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 suddenly a great conquest, because 〈◊〉 cannot 〈◊〉 you any 〈◊〉 priest 〈◊〉: (which to liketh you 〈◊〉 call perverted) but I 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of you, how many priests of Moses 〈◊〉 did Christ convert when he was here on earth: If you cannot show me one, will you therefore say that high priests and 〈◊〉 religion was true, and Christ's religion false, and that because he converted no 〈◊〉: I hope you will not. And now if Christ the son of God (which was the best converter of all other) did not convert one priest of Moses law (that law of God) unto him: than it were no great mexuell though our preachers (that are but the servants of Christ) cannot convert one of your priests of the pope's law, which are enemies to the law of God. And though you so stoutly affirm that there hath not one priest been 〈◊〉 to us, in these latter years, you may be 〈◊〉 for all you are a jesuite, for if there were seven thousand jews 3. King. 19 that went not from God to Ball, (though 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 of God knew not of it) then may there not one priest be, converted from the pope to God, though a jesuite a servant of that pope do not know it: yes well enough. Though you (if you be at Rome) may understand of all the revolters that come from us to you thither: yet one or two papistical 〈◊〉 may turn to us here in England, & you never the wiset. Wherefore writ not so precisely upon an 〈◊〉; 〈◊〉 as that cock is not to be counted of, that croweth uncertenlie: so you are not to be commended, to affirm things 〈◊〉. The fifteenth part. YOu say you have nothing to compel our Ministers 15. part. unto your part (which have offered themselves to you 〈◊〉. Pag, 7. in this time) except evidence of truth, nor anything to allure them except 〈◊〉 and honesty. Brag is a good dog, if truth may be got with talking, I doubt not but you will have it: but as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the only truth, so they that will have it must learn it of Christ. But because you are 〈◊〉 by the holy 〈◊〉 of God, to maintain the Pope's 〈◊〉 that are false which is olene contrary to the gospel of god which is truth, therefore you have not the truth. The jews bragged that they had Abraham to their father but Christ told them flatly john. 8. that they had the Devil to their father, who was a liar from the beginning, and therefore they were liars because they were his children. Now if the 〈◊〉 which were the elect people of God, were liars and were the children of the devil for all they said they had Abraham to their father: than you that are not the peculiar people of God, may miss of the truth and be very liars, though you say yourselves you have the evidence of truth. The Scriptures are chief tryars of the truth & Christ saith: Ego sum via, veritas, & vita, I am the way the truth and the life, and he also saith, john. 14. Search the scripture for they bear witness of me. Now john. 5. 〈◊〉 it is 〈◊〉 by Christ's own words, that the scriptures be are witness of Christ, which is truth. Now seeing you cleave to the Pope's law, which is contrary to God's jaws you forsake the scriptures, and therefore you have not the truth, because you search not for it in the Scriptures. Theophilactus saith, That God's word is the candle where by the thief is spied. Now as thieves will put out the candle and go in the dark, for fear they should be bewrayed by the candle light: so doth your holy father the Pope and his chaplains, hide or put out God's word lest it bewray them. Therefore by your hiding and suppressing God's word you show yourselves spiritual thieves. Wherefore if thieves be true, than you have the truth. So that it appeareth (yea & it is most plain) that it is not the evidence of truth that maketh our ministers come so thick unto you, well it may be flattery and falsehood. And can you make us believe, that all they do come to you from us for the truth 〈◊〉 know in your religion: No no, they regard the pope's riches more than his religion, the treasure of his coffers more than the truth of his cause, and his livings more than his learning. Therefore you may put out truth well enough, for truth is as hard to come by at Rome at your pope's hand: as to have Okes growing in the Sea. And as for your poverty, that cannot allure them, for it is not like the Pope's servants should be poor, (I pray God they may be poor in spirit) the Pope that hath the angels of heaven at his commandment, he may have gold and silver enough at his beck. And he that may have money as much as he list, than he were very unkind to suffer them to lack that do prop him up in his Popedom. 〈◊〉 that Abb. 〈◊〉. de elect. cap. licet abb. can do whatsoever God can do: then he may do what soever Christ could do, therefore as Christ made Peter 〈◊〉 fetch twenty pence out of a fishes maw: So the Pope Math. 17. may cause thousands of pounds to be fetched out of great whales bellies, and never hurt any body for it. I think our ministers that are thus revolted to you, do not love poverty so well, that therefore they would forsake their country, fly from their friends, & procure their prince's displeasure, only to have your company for poverty sake. Therefore herein you thrcape kindness on them whether they will or no, for I dare say thus much in their behalf, that they had rather go to Rome for the pope's purse, then for your poverty. And if they go to Rome so thick & three fold for your honesty (as you would feign persuade us) then in my judgement they make but a sorry journey: I hope that honesty is not so scarce in England, that for it they had need to go to Rome. I believe I could help them to more honesty for a penny here, than they can have for a pound there. (Yea and that which you call honesty, I fear will prove hypocrisy, disobediencie, or rather plain traitrie,) which may go well enough for dishonesty. Wherefore it were more wisdom to have without travel and cost honesty at home, then with painful journeys and great expenses to buy dishonesty or rather treason at Rome. There are a great sort of good wits, wise heads, honest men and good Subjects in England, and all they I am sure do think that you that flee to the Pope and forsake your Prince, obey the Pope, disobey your Prince, observe the Pope's laws, break Gods and the Queen's laws, refuse your own Country, think better of a strange Country, discommend your Queen's proceedings, commend the Pope's pernicious practices, and dispraise England and extol Rome, are not greatly overladen with honesty. You do well to have a good opinion in yourselves, and for want of other, to set forth your own honesties. But Saint Paul sayeth, He that praiseth himself is not allowed, but he whom the Lord praiseth. 2. Corinth. 10. You are feign to report it yourselves, lest otherwise it should be hid and unknown. You do as the unshamefast guest did, that thought himself honester than any of the guests beside, who looking a great while to be willed to be set at the upper end of the Table, and saw that none would bid him: he without any more ado, (as one more shameless than shamefast) set himself down and so took his place (without an Usher) at the higher end of the Table. Which when the good man of the house saw, (perceiving him to be more bold than honest) made the lower end to be the upper end, and so accordingly he set and placed his guests as he thought good: whereby this man that would feign have been exalted, and that did set and place himself highest, without any removing was enforced to sit lowest. So you, seeing none either will or can well praise your honesties: (for there is no great cause, for that you have changed yourselves from being the Queen's Subjects to be the Pope's slaves, and from being faithful Christians, to be forsworn jesuits) have dishonested yourselves, as the unshamefast guest did, by publishing your own honesties. All your Country men that are honest in deed, would have thought you a great deal honester than you are, if you had obeyed your Prince, observed her laws, and continued in your own Country. Yea and would have had a better opinion that you would be honest, if you would fly from the Pope, embrace God's word, return to your Country, and humbly submit yourselves to our most merciful Prince and Queen of England. This is the way rather to recover your honesties lost, then to get any credit by blazing your honesties abroad in your own books. Your late traitorous attempts, your privy conspiracies, your 〈◊〉 practices, your seeking and wishing the death of your Prince, the destruction of her Council, and the confusion of your Country too manifestly known and through God's goodness revealed: whereby some of your holy Priests had new tippets given them at Tyburn, fit for their profession, is a manifest proof that you are very full of honesty, and though you would feign be honest: yet your own writing doth witness your dishonesty, for though in less than a line you have set forth your own honesties: yet your whole book hath bewrayed your dishonesty. The sixteenh part. IN the beginning of your answer these are your 16. 〈◊〉. words. For the better understanding of this first Discovery. Pag. 8. Pag. 〈◊〉. part, as also to see how little cause this little man (which is master Nicols) had to trouble us with bragging, it shall not be amiss to set down in few words some short progress of his life etc. Namely his course from Wales to England, and from England to Flaunders, from Flaunders to Rome, and from Rome to the pulpit in the Tower of London, etc. As it was not amiss for you in the first part of your disceverie to set down a short progress of M. Nicols life, for the better understanding of the first part of the same: Even so I thought it not amiss in the first beginning of this my book for the better understanding of your good disposition and honesty, herein to show forth plainly and truly, your abominable profession, and your most execrable oath for the performance thereof. And though in derision you call him this little man, and make as though he hath troubled you with bragging: as little as he is, He, whose servant he is, is able to give him strength enough to overthrow your mighty Giants. It was not little David that boasted of his manhood, but it was great Golyah that bragged of his strength. And as little David seemed but a dwarf to Goliath the enemy of God: so doth M. Nicols seem (by your saying) a very little and silly wretch, and far unable to match with the power of your mighty Giant the Pope. But as little David not by his own strength, but by the power of God, 1. Sam. 17. did it the great Golyah in the mids of his forehead with a stone of his sling and so killed him outright: So little M. Nicols, not of himself, but by the help of God, with the little 〈◊〉 of his tongue and pen, may with the stone of God's word, hit your mighty Pope such a blow, that it will make him to stagger. Of the like (Gods name be blessed) we have great trial and 〈◊〉. For many as little and small to see to as M. Nicols, have so hit the Pope by mean of their slings, that he hath had such a fall: as I am sure he will never recover again. You count it a great discredit for M. Nicols to travel as he did especially from Rome to the Pulpit in the Tower of London, well me thinks it deserveth more credit to go from Rome to the Tower to preach the word of God: then to be led from the Tower to 〈◊〉 to be hanged for treason. And therefore though you speak it in reproach of M. Nicols, that he came from Rome to preach in the pulpit in the Tower: yet it was not greatly to the praise of Doctor Story & Ducat called 〈◊〉, and your great captain Campion and other to he led from the Tower to preach in the pulpit at Tyburn. 〈◊〉 M. Nicols 〈◊〉 from Rome into England, and to become a professor of the Gospel, subject to his prince, & to be a friend to his country, is to be discommended: then they that go from England to Rome, to deny the word of God, to be false to their prince, and to be enemies to their country, are not much to be praised. Thus if you weigh all things uprightly, you have no great cause to show Master Nicols progress from Rome to the pulpit in the Tower of London, to his reproach. And now as you have discoursed and opened M. Nicols doings, to the discrediting of his religion: so have I discoursed and blazed forth your execrable oath and religion, to the discrediting of your doings. The 17. part. AFter this you say (and that again in good sooth) that The 17. part. you much pity the man, and that you wish his discou. pag. 9 only repentance to pardon, and not his infamle to desperation. A false meaning had need to be finely smoothed, if you pity him because he embraceth the word of God, and is become obedient to his lawful and merciful prince, than I must needs say you are too full of pity. I fear you are so full of 〈◊〉 pity, that there is small room for true pity that the scripture alloweth. True pity can not be in them that so envieth any, that will allow, consent, yea and rejoice in the burning and destruction of any. Though you pity M. Nicols as you say, yet he knoweth no occasion I am sure why you should pity him so much. I would he had no cause to pity you. Nay you pity him not but spite him that he doth so well: but he and we all do pity you that you do so evil. It is but a mad repentance to pardon that you wish him, for you would have him repent and 〈◊〉 for ye that he hath forsaken the Pope, and returned to Christ, and that he despiseth your devilish doctrine, and embraceth the word of God. And you would have him trust to the Pope's pardon which will utterly deceive him, and to 〈◊〉 God's pardon, which only can help him. And here upon you conclude, if he repent not to pardon as you 〈◊〉 him, than he must needs be infamous, and so come to desperation. But we may well doubt whether your bare word, without either authority or any argument, be a sufficient warrant, that he if he continue in the gospel, and the obedience of his prince, shall be infamous, and so come to desperation. But though you would have your simple reader to give credit only to your good sooth, that M. Nicols if he continue in the gospel as he doth, shall there by get infamy and so come to 〈◊〉 whereof you are uncertain, because you have not yet seen the proof (for he is yet alive): yet I would have the indifferent reader consider, that I have already with arguments, proofs, and true examples plainly 〈◊〉, that divers of your religion wrought their own infamy & came to desperation, whereof I have seen the trial. Therefore your good sooth is not a sufficient proof, that M. Nicols if he continue as he doth, shall come to infamy and 〈◊〉. But the doleful and desperate deaths of them of your sect, which are yet fresh in memory, is a manifest proof: that you and your sectaries will come to infamy and desperation, if they and you continue as you and they do. Therefore we much pity you, and wish only your true and unfeigned repentance, and that you may 〈◊〉 pardon for your sins at God's hand, through the death of his son jesus Christ, the only Saviour and redeemer of all the world, and not to stick to the pope's pardon. The 18. part. IT seemeth that you have a divine knowledge in presaging The 18 part. or foreshowing the cause why one is borne in the place, where they first come into the world, (it may be that you learned it of the pope who hath a divine and heavenly judgement), for like a profound scholar and a deep clerk, (soon after you something touched M. Nicols short progress and course from Wales to Rome, & from Rome to the pulpit in the tower of london) you say, I. Nicols therefore was born Disco. pag. 19 at Cowbridge in Wales, etc. By this your saying it doth appear that M. Nicols was borne at Cowbridge in 〈◊〉, because he went or made his course from Wales to England, from England to Flaunders, from Flaunders to Rome, & from Rome to the pulpit in the Tower of London. For you, say, john Nicols therefore was 〈◊〉 at 〈◊〉 in Wales, and now for that there is none other cause before, specified, but only his said course and travel from Wales to England, and then to Rome, and so from Rome to the pulpit in the Tower of London, therefore his said journey and course, from Wales to England, and from England to Flaunders, and from Flaunders to Rome, and from Rome to the pulpit in the tower of London (if we may believe you) was the cause why M. Nicols was borne at Cowbridge in Wales. It was happy that he travailed that journey to Rome, and so from Rome to the pulpit in the Tower of London, or else it seemeth by your saying he had never 〈◊〉 borne at Cowbridge in Wales. Had not you told me this tale, I should have thought, that his being borne at Cowbridge in Wales, was rather an occasion that he made this course and journey, then that this his course & journey should have made him be borne at Cowbridge in Wales. As the pope's pardons have impossible virtues, so the pope's jesuits, can make impossible causes, you counted before that M. Nicols was very base ware: but if this be true that you tell us, he can not be very base, neither yet such a little man as you made him. For it is more like that he should be rather a heavenly creature than an earthly little man: that took such a course and went such a journey before he was borne. Your pleasant jesting with one of my words, and finding of fault therewith, (which is usually spoken, and which was apt for the matter, and agreed with my sense, as shall appear 〈◊〉) hath made me the rather justly to 〈◊〉 this (Therefore) of yours, which not only is needles, but also marreth the meaning of the text, and hath given it as before appeareth a contrary sense. I marvel that you that are so skilful in controling of M. Nicols in two or three lives of 〈◊〉, are so far over seen in one english word. The 19 part. YOu are a good Proctor for the Pope, for where as you The 19 part. go about to magnify his majesty, you publish his pride. Discou. pag. 16 17. You can not conceute home the Pope should give M. Nicols thanks for his 〈◊〉 (which you call his stuff) for you say, in the consistory, the pope's place is so far distant from them which 〈◊〉 thither to make 〈◊〉, as he can not speak unto him. (Be like the Pope than sitteth so, that the wind bloweth from the preacher to the pope, which taketh away the sound of the Pope's thanks from the preacher: else I see no cause 〈◊〉 the preacher may hear the Pope's thanks, as well as the Pope may hear the preachers Sermon. But it may be, that the Popes are always horsed, or the preachers deaf) nor the pope doth use (you say) to thank any man that speaketh before him, what soever he be, etc. Great learned men, and 〈◊〉 orators have departed thence without particular thanks, albeit they did their matters with great commendations. Such (you say) is the gravity and state of that place. You may see here, it is not the pride of the Pope, but the state of his place, that causeth them that make orations or preach before him to go away without thanks. It seemeth there is a great difference between the Pope's chair and his consistory, for the pope's chair is so full of wisdom and truth, that the pope when he sitteth there, is full of learned talk, yea and can speak nothing but truth, as it may appear by his judgement of the body of S. Denis: but the pope's consistory is such a proud and stately place, that the pope as long as he sitteth there, dare speak never a word, or else is so doltish a place, that he, whiles he is in it, is tongutied, or hath no wit to speak. Well, seeing the pope is so dainty of his thanks to his preachers, it should seem that he is very dainty in bidding them to dinner. But for that the pope is called servus servorum dei the servant of God's servants, and he taking his preachers for God's servants, whereby they must needs then be his masters: I muse that he is so far over seen, that he doth not bid his masters to dinner, especially seeing they preach before him. But I must say that the pope is a stately servant (if he be a servant) that will neither bid his masters to dinner, nor give them once thanks for their Sermons. The pope belike would use his servants but homely: that dealeth with his masters thus uncourteously. I perceive it is not the custom of your holy and lowly Church of Rome, that a poor preacher shall dine with a proud pope, seeing a proud pope may not give a poor preacher thanks. But one would think, though the pope's table is too high for his preachers to sit at: yet the ground under the pope's table is low enough for them to lie on, where he may suffer them to pick up that crumbs that fall from his table. And then his preachers might say, that the pope doth as much for them for their preaching, as he did to his dogs for their barking. But perhaps the ground under the pope's table is not allowed for poor preachers, but only for dogs and Dukes ever since duke Dandalus lay there. It may be that the great virtue of the Pope's chair would quite be lost, if the pope should thank them that make Orations, or preach before him. Because the pope would not be like unto Christ, therefore he is loath to be humble and meek. The 20. part. FOr your reverent writing of your country, you may easily be judged what you are. As you have forsaken 20. part. the obedience of your prince, so you mean (as it seemeth) not to deserve any favour of her grace, (if you should chance to be catched as some of your fellows have been.) It appeareth by your saying that ministery here is sufficient to excuse dishonesty, for thus you say, If he (that is Disco. pag. 18 M. Nicols) should have dealt so in some other countries, where ministery is not sufficient to excuse dishonesty, it would rather have fallen out to his cost then his credit, etc. As though ministers were so borne with all here, that they may work what mischief they will without controlment: which is a most shameful slander. What so ever ministers are here, too many such as you, are winked at or excused here. But though ministery is not sufficient to excuse dishonesty in England, yet priesthood is sufficient to excuse whoredom in Rome: And in other places where the pope hath power, as appeareth plainly before. And do you think that the old proverb hath lost his force at Rome, which is Omnia venalia Romae, all things are saleable at Rome: it can not be so, for what is it that money will not excuse at Rome: This following showeth what swinge money hath borne Aureum speculum in Antil. at Rome, venalitate curiae Romanae inaniter praeficiuntur, Lenones, coqui, stabularii equorum, & pueri: Through the bribery of the court of Rome, bawds, cooks, ostler's, and boys be placed in offices to govern the Church. Your mother the Church of Rome must needs be holy, that had such learned and virtuous children. It is happy that now you have so many important learned personages, for hereby it appeareth that your church was not wont to be pestarde with learned prelate's, unless bawds, cooks, ostler's, & boys were counted to be such. And also your holy father's the pope's would not stick to pardon any thing for pennies, for they have given commonly prelate's and priests leave for money to keep harlots (for manners sake we must call them concubines): yea and other offences they have pardoned for money. Pope Martin the fift for money licensed one to marry his own sister. God nor his son Christ, did never so much. Friar Ticel had such a large pardon of the pope, that he said johà Sleidan. 〈◊〉. 13. if one had got the mother of Christ with child, he was able to pardon it. I am sure you can not prove that our ministers have had any such licences from our Prince, as many of the Pope's Prelates and Priests have had of the pope to committee sins and offences. The Pope hath given dipensations for sins before they be done: and he hath given pardons for them after they be done, as it is manifest. And though the Pope's pardons (which are delicate sauces to procure sin) are not warranted by God's word, but are quite contrary to the same: yet you swear as before is 〈◊〉 that the use of them is very wholesome for Christian people. And though you allege without proof, that our ministery doth excuse dishonesty: yet it appeareth plainly by your oath, that your Society do swear to maintain blasphemy, Idolatry, disobediencie, and traytrie until your last gasp. Now whether ministry in England, or your spirituality of Rome do excuse dishonesty more, let the indifferent reader be judge. The more you strive to withstand truth or to slander the ministers of the Gospel: the more you set forth your folly and utter your shame. The 21. part. YOu say only such go to purgatory, as die in the favour 21. part. of God, but have not done such penance for Discovery. Pag. 28. their sins, as God's justice requireth, and therefore they are to be purged by fire, etc. If Christ or his Apostles had told you, that such go to purgatory, it might have won some credit to your cause, but your own bare words (though you are a jesuite) deserve no such credit, wherefore until we find your purgatory in the Gospel of Christ, we will not believe you. Therefore you waste but your wind to tell us of any thing, that is not there to be found. O what an horrible doctrine is this to think any man (the holiest that ever was, except Christ) can do such penance for sins as gods justice requireth: you and they that think so are enemies to the cross of Christ. Can any thing 〈◊〉 in heaven or earth satisfy God's justice for our sins, or else purge our sins but only the blood of Christ? no no, if an Angel of heaven should say so, I would not believe him, or if the most ancient or learned Doctor that ever was should write so, I would utterly abhor his opinion therein. S. john saith, the blood of jesus Christ the son of 1. john. 1. God purgeth us and maketh us clean from all our sins. And S. Paul saith, Christ hath wrought the purgation of Hebr. 1. our sins. Saint Cyprian saith, Sanguis tuus domine non Cypri. de pas. Christ. quaerit ultionem, Sanguis tuus lavat crimina, peccata condonat: Thy blood O Lord seeketh no revenge, thy blood washeth our sins, and pardoneth our trespasses. S. August. saith, Aug. in psa. 25 Valeat mihi ad perfectionem liberationis, tantum pretium Sanguinis domini mei: Let only the price of the blood of my Lord avail me to the perfection of my delivery. Now if Christ doth purge us & make us clean from all our sins, than there is none left for the fire of purgatory to cleanse; If Christ hath wrought the purgation of our sins, than I am sure your 〈◊〉 of purgatory, (if there were any) can not purge them better: If according to Saint Cyprian the blood of Christ washeth away our sins, than what need have we of either your pope's purgatory or pardon: And if S. August desired that only the price of christs blood might avail him to the perfection of his delivery: then why do you bring S. Augustine in as an upholder of your purgatory? If our sins might have been purged by fire, (as by your words you seem to dream) than Christ would not so painfully have purged us with his blood. You writ a long circumstance of the saying of Saint Augustine, beginning thus: Neither is it to be denayed Discou. pa. 29 that the souls of the dead are relieved by the piety of Enchiridion. cap. 110. their living friends, etc. In all the same he doth not once name purgatory, much less prove it. But what if therein Saint Augustine had made mention of purgatory? should we therefore believe there is a purgatory, because Saint Augustine wrote it? Nay, if Saint Augustine (or any other) write any thing of his own fancy or 〈◊〉, not commanded nor commended by Christ (as in the same he doth) I will not believe him. And at this point I would wish that all men were, to take all doctors and learned men's writings for no better than fables (in things touching our salvation) if the same do not agree with the word of God. But though you would make your simple Reader believe that S. Augustine doth allow your Purgatory (as he doth not) yet your Reader were very simple if he would credit S. Augustine, if he be contrary to Christ, or affirm his own 〈◊〉 cie not allowed by Christ. The 22. part. AND thus you say further, that you teach (as it may 22. part. appear in the council of Florence in literis unionis) Discovery. Pag. 28. that there are three sorts of men which die, one very good, which go strait to heaven, one very evil which go strait to hell, one mean betwixt both which go to purgatory, etc. This your teaching may agree with the Council of Florence, but I am sure it agreeth not with the council of the Apostles, therefore believe you the council of Florence, and we will believe Acts. 15. the council of the Apostles at Jerusalem. And whereas you bring in Saint Augustine for the proving of your Puagatorie, I think I shall bring in S. Augustine, to say that he knoweth no such Purgatory, for here 〈◊〉 affirm three places, heaven, hell and purgatory, but 〈◊〉 the third place is one more than Saint Augustine knew of, if you will believe Saint Augustine himself, and these are his words touching the same, Primum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Catholicorum, Aug. Hypognost. lib. 〈◊〉. divina 〈◊〉 oritate, regnum credit esse coelorum, etc. The first place the Catholic faith, by god's authority 〈◊〉 to be the kingdom of heaven, from whence such as are not baptized are excluded: the second place, 〈◊〉 same Catholic faith believeth to be 〈◊〉: where all runagates, and whosoever is without the 〈◊〉 of Christ shall taste everlasting punishment: As for any third place 〈◊〉 utterly know none, neither shall we find in the holy scriptures that there is any such. Hear by S. 〈◊〉 sayings there is heaven and hell, but the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he knoweth not, and because he saith that it is 〈◊〉 to be found in the Scriptures: therefore it seemeth that he would not allow any thing but that is to be found in the Scriptures. Wherefore you may bring what text you will of Saint Augustine for your purgatory, but he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he knoweth no such place: and it were requisite that he should know of the place, before he can prove it. I think it had been a great deal better for the Pope to have claimed authority over Paradise that is mentioned in divers places of the Scripture, rather than purgatory that 〈◊〉 speaketh of never a whit: and it had been as easy to put souls into Paradise, as to pull souls out of purgatory, and thereby he might have got money enough. But perhaps the Pope did doubt that the Angel that keepeth Paradise would not suffer these souls to come into Paradise, but rather keep them out: and I doubt also that the Devils that keep your perilous purgatory will not suffer these souls to come out of it if they be once in. You say they that are very evil go strait to hell. I am sure you cannot choose but count them very evil that 〈◊〉 did good deed in all their life, & such a one was the thief that hanged 〈◊〉 the right hand of Christ, for he was but then newly 〈◊〉 so that he had no time to do any good, therefore he being very evil, by your sayings is gone to 〈◊〉, notwithstanding Christ told him that he should be with him that day in Paradise. Therefore I Luke. 23. must be so hold here either to reprove you or Christ. But because Christ the son of God, is to be believed before a jesuite the servant of the pope: therefore your fantastical saying herein must needs go for a fable. And if the said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not very evil, and thereby not of the number that went strait to hell: yet he could not be one of the 〈◊〉 but one of the mean sort that you mean, for he did no such 〈◊〉 as you speak of for his sins as God's justice required and therefore by your doctrine he went to purgatory, there to be purged by fire and so saved. But because Christ (which is to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 before a jesuite,) said that he should be with him that day in Paradise, therefore, he went neither to hell nor to purgatory, but strait to Paradise. Thus you may see an unlearned 〈◊〉, hath confounded a learned jesuite, in and by his own doctrine, and thereby hath proved, that your mean 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 both, do not go to purgatory, and now because (by your own saying) the very good go strait to heaven, & the very evil go strait to hell, and the mean 〈◊〉 both, (whereof the thief was one) dying in the favour of God, but did not as you say) such penance as God's 〈◊〉 did require, go to Paradise, therefore none go to purgatory, and because none go to Purgatory, therefore it is not like that GOD made a place for no body: and so hereby I may conclude that your purgatory is no 〈◊〉, You may see plainly, how fond you wander, to go 〈◊〉 bout to prove your purgatory, without the authority of the Scriptures, therefore whosoever favour their own 〈◊〉, it will lead them to folly, and folly will bring them to falsehood, and falsehood will send them to shame therefore if you will avoid your own shame, be no longer a 〈◊〉 for the pope's purgatory, for the pope would neither stick nor stand 〈◊〉 as he doth: were it not more for the 〈◊〉 that he getteth by it, then for any truth he knoweth in it. The 23. part. TO maintain and defend the people's honouring of 23. part. Discovery. Pag. 54. the pope and kneeling to him: because you want Scripture you prove it by reason. But to make Christ of a Cake, there you refuse reason, & would prove it by Scripture. Thus when the Scriptures will serve the pope's turn, than away with reason and let scripture come in place, but if 〈◊〉 be against him, and reason will serve, than away with the 〈◊〉, and 〈◊〉 reason come in. Christ was as 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 knee led to as the Pope, and yet the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 taken in 〈◊〉 whom he saved from death, did not kneel but stood before him. Now 〈◊〉 Christ the son of john. 8. God looked not to be kneeled to: for saving of one's life, than the Pope being not altogether so good as Christ, should not be kneeled unto, for bringing men to endless death. And also I am sure that the woman had more occasion to kneel to Christ for saving her life: then the people have to kneel to the Pope to receive his blessing. And though the Pope cannot claim his 〈◊〉 nor to go in his pontificalibus by scripture, neither can learn it either by the example of Christ or Peter: yet when no other way will serve, you will approve it lawful with your own reason: which we must take 〈◊〉 a law, to plant the Pope in his pride. And these are your words concerning the same. At certain high festival days he (that is the pope) Discovery. Pag. 55. is borne from his palace into Saint Peter's Church (for at none other time or place is that thing used) it is a matter so reasonable (the circumstances considered) as can be offensive to no indifferent wise man, etc. The matter standeth thus, at certain principal feasts of the Church, the Pope useth to leave his private chapel, and to come down to service in Saint Peter's Church, at which time such great multitudes of people expect him there, to receive his benediction, & very many also to see him which never saw him before, being strangers and come from far Countries to visit those holy places: as it is impolsible for him to pass in and out through the press, and to be seen to give his benediction to all, except he should either ride or be borne in his chair. And to ride it were very unseemly and inconvenient having to pass through all Saint Peter's great Church, where the most press is and also for the passages of stones and stairs. Wherefore they have used always, to lift him up in his chair, and so to convey him through the multitude, and this is all the matter, which is so much exclaimed at, etc. Which (you say) noteth rather malice in them that malign it, then convinceth pride in the pope that admitteth it, or any fault at all in the well meaning Christians, who upon so just causes do both desire and offer it. For that Christ is the best pattern to follow of all other, and did never use such pomp to be borne on men's shoulders, neither in the temple of jerusalem nor in any other place, and because the Pope is by his own saying but Christ's Utcar or Deputy: me thinks (if you go to reason) that then the Pope should do as his master did, and use himself rather more humbly than his master, and not to pass in pomp and glory above Emperors and Kings, & more like a Sovereign than a servant. You allege reasons and causes why he should be thus carried on men's shoulders: but there is a greater reason that he should not do so, because Christ neither did so nor yet commanded him to do so. I can show you a good reason why the Pope ought rather to go on his feet then to be carried on men's backs, and that is this, God hath given us feet purposely to go on, and legs to carry us: but God created not men purposely to carry the Pope. and also here is an other reason, Christ was never carrted on men's shoulders, than it is not meet for the Pope being far under him to be carrted many times on men's backs: Christ went on foot in as great throngs of people as the Pope, than it is reason that the pope go in as great throngs of people as Christ: Christ the son of God read but one day in all his life, and that was but on an Ass, than the pope ought not to presume to ride many days upon men. The Jews had more occasion to see Christ then the people have now to see the pope, yet Christ road not on men's shoulders that men might see him but he went a foot: but the pope because he will needs be unlike Christ, he is borne on men's shoulders for that he would be seen: the pope must needs ride in a chair on men's shoulders, or else you say he cannot conveniently bless the people: but Christ could help the blind, heal the lame, & do good to all people, & yet went on foot, which did more good than the pope's blessings, Little Zacheus Luke. 19 because he would see Christ, did get him by into a tree: But Christ got him not on men's shoulders because he would be seen of little Zacheus. You excuse the Pope in this his riding in a chair on men's backs, because otherwise the people should not receive his 〈◊〉. It seemeth hereby that the Pope's blessing doth descend but not ascend, and falleth down ward, but cannot go upward: So that if the people be above the Pope, his blessing will do them no good, but if the Pope be above them, than it will do them great pleasure, and so they shall never be hungry as long as they list not eat. Yea and by this your great reason, it seemeth that the Pope must see them whom his blessings must pleasure. You had need take heed that your Pope be not blind, for then all the virtue of his blessings is quite gone. But whereas you make such a great necessity, that the Popes on these festival days must thus be carried to bless that people, I would know who 〈◊〉 this at their hands & who 〈◊〉 them do it: who setteth them on work: forsooth neither God in his word nor Christ in his Gospel. I remember that Christ bade his Apostles go into all the world and preach: but he never bade the Pope ride on Math. 28. men's shoulders in 〈◊〉 Peter's Church of Rome, to bless the people. And now because God hath not willed the pope to ride thus 〈◊〉 on men's shoulders to bless that people, neither Christ hath taught or commanded him, to take such a glory upon him, but clean contrary to learn of him to be humble and meek. Therefore the Devil the prince of pride, hath set him on work, to ride thus gloriously & stately upon men's shoulders, far passing either Emperor or king, & therefore he must pay him his wages, for god will pay none wages, but such as he setteth on work, and that labour in that work that he willeth them: whose work is only to be found in God's word, & whatsoever work it be: if it be not there to be found, (though it seem never so good) it is none of God's work. Wherefore all the reasons that you are able to bring, cannot prove the Pope's 〈◊〉 & glorious riding 〈◊〉 men's shoulders, to he so necessary, as you would have us believe: because God never commanded it, neither Christ his son did use it, nor allowed it. Therefore though you commend the pope for his pomp to be as the 〈◊〉 of Christ: yet you have rather proved him for his pride to be Antichrist. The 24. part. AMong other of your exercises at Rome, in on of the 24. part. pope's Colleges, you commend this that followeth, 〈◊〉. Pag. 〈◊〉. saying: In the beginning of every month, they come all together in their hall, and there after some prayer made, each man taketh by lot, a little scroll of paper, wherein three things are written, first the name of the festival day of some Saint of that month to come, Secondly some rare sentence of scripture, Thirdly some special thing which the whole College much tendereth. The first is written, for that each man shall take that Saint which falleth to his lot, for his peculiar protector under God that month to pray for him: for which cause, each man readeth the life of his Saint, and noteth some virtue but of the same for his own imitation, etc. Hereby it appeareth they cast 〈◊〉 who can hap on the best Saint to be their protector under god that month. They have one good turn that it is but for a month, for they that happen on an 〈◊〉 Saint, may haply light on a better that next month. But I would feign know who taught or willed you to draw lots for Saints to be your protectors: I am sure that neither Christ nor his Apostles taught it or used it: Therefore though the papists and jesuits do so, yet we that are Christians dare draw no such lots. If Christ the son of GOD be not a sufficient protector: then I would wish you to cast lots for the Saints to be your protectors: But surely in my judgement, if Christ the son of God be not able to protect us, I can hardly believe that Saints that were but his servants are able to do it. In deed the Apostles (after judas had hanged himself), did Acts. 1. cause lots to be cast for a fellow to be joined with them in their Apostleship: But I never heard that any of the Apostles did cast lots for to have Moses, David, or any of the Prophets to be their protectors either for a month, a week, or a day. There are certain Heathenish people that have a new God or protector every day, for the first thing they see in the morning (whatsoever it be) that they take for their God all that day. But you (as it seemeth) have a better confidence in your Saints then they have in their gods, for be they good be they evil, you keep them for a month. Mark in what devilish dreams you are drowned, by refusing God's word: Do you think that the Saints can protect you better than Christ? Do you think that they that could not be saved without Christ, can save & defend you better than Christ: Can sinners and the sons of men, give you better than Christ that was sinless and the son of God: How are you blinded: how are you be witched: Christ hath taught us to pray unto God, and shall the pope teach you to pray unto Saints: Christ saith, Come unto me all Mat. 11. ye that labour and are laden, and I will ease you. He doth not say cast lots for the Saints every month, that they may protect you and pray for you. But if the Saints of God might be your protectors, (as they cannot) yet you had need to take heed, for if the pope's Saints be mingled among them, you may chance hit of a Sathanist in steed of a Saint. And if you mean to imitate your Saint, such a Saint you may light on, that you may learn of him to be rather a traitor then a true man. I fear that some of you by your lots have chanced on Thomas Becket, in steed of Saint Thomas the Apostle: and then it is no marvel (because you are bound to imitate your Saint) that you have learned of him to be disobedient and traitors to your Queen, as he was stubborn and obstinate to his king. I marvel that you were not ashamed to write and publish such a ridiculous exercise, and such a lothsume lottery, do you think that it can go unespied even of them that be but young beginners in the Gospel of Christ: Can you persuade your reader that professeth christ and feareth God, (though he be never so simple) that God hath appointed the Saints to be protectors under him: As Christ hath appointed the pope to be his vicar under him, so God hath appointed the saints to be protectors under him: for as true is the one as the other. Thus you thought you had much commended your religious Romans for casting lots for the saints: but you have set forth their folly, for refusing of Christ. The 25. part. THough you would have us believe that you are godly, 25. part. and do detest sin, yet you go about to excuse the pope as much as in you lieth, in keeping up his stews, for these are your words, It is false that Disco. pag. 96. these courtesans pay tribute to the pope, and if they did (as they do not) yet were it a punishment, and not an allowance of their life, as when you make a catholic pay money for his not coming to the Church, you do not allow thereby of his absence, but you punish him for it. Surely the pope had need reward you for finding out such a shift to keep up his stews, you say if they paid a tribute, yet were it a punishment, and not an allowance of their life. You will grant I am sure that theft is no greater offence before God than forntcation or whoredom, nay it seemeth it is not so great, for that the punishment there of was less by Moses law. Now if a prince should suffer his subieces to steal that would: So that they should for their stealing pay him yearly a tribute, & have none other harm for their stealing: that same tribute were then but a punishment and not an allowance of their evil life. (If we may believe you) if thieves might have none other punishment for 〈◊〉 but to pay yearly a tribute therefore, do you not chink there would be more the eves than there be: yes I warrant you: Even so seeing the yearly paying of money to the pope is the chiefest punishment that the Courtesans 〈◊〉 for their whoredom, I think thereby there are not fewer whores in Rome, nor less fornication there committed. And as they that should pay money as a punishment for stealing, would steal the ofter, whereby they would be sure to have enough to live on, beside the sum appointed for their punishment: So assure yourself, the Courtesans and harlots of Rome procure the more to sin with them, because they will have as much as they can get, over and beside the yearly Sum they pay to the Pope. Which you, very advisedly, allow for a punishment for their fact, and not as an allowance of their life, for this is your reason, When we make a Catholic pay money for his not coming to Church, we do not allow thereby of his absence, but we punish him for it. This will prove but a false Simile, though it show fair at the first. You compare whoredom, which is wickedness, to going to the Church to hear the word of God, which is godliness. And so where we pay money to the poor for not doing godly: your Courtesans pay money to the pope, for committing wickedness. And further one may be absent and from the Church, and displease not God: but every one displeaseth God that committeth whoredom. So that your Courtesans pay their money to the pope that they may sin: but they that come not to the Church with us, pay money to the poor, because they do not honour God. And thus if you mark this well, the paying of the whores money to the Pope is to an evil end: but the paying of our money to the poor, is to a good end. Therefore by these your former words, you thought to cast such a mist before your simple reader's eyes, that the Pope doth not evil in suffering the Stews up in Rome, nor in his taking money of them therefore. But mark this well, do you think, if there were a street or two of protestants in Rome, that the pope would suffer them to use their religion, for paying him a certain 〈◊〉 of money every year: and would he take that money as a punishment for using their religion? I think not. If they should offer him money in such a case, he would not take it of them, because he will not allow them there to use their religion: neither would he think that the payment of that money were a sufficient punishment for such an offence. Therefore if the pope should allow the preaching and hearing of the Gospel by taking of money of the protestants: Then the pope doth allow whoredom in Rome by taking money of the Courtesans and harlots there. And if the pope would not think it a due punishment for Protestants to pay money to him for preaching and hearing the word of God: then the paying of money to the pope by the Courtesans, can not be a sufficient punishment for their whoredom, which is devilish and damnable. Yet you and the pope can be content to punish whoredom with paying of money. and to suffer them still to live in the same: But the children of God that profess the Gospel, and that do abhor whoredom, may not be punished by paying of money, but even with paying their heart blood, and with the loss of their lives. What a detestable doctrine is this of yours, that makes you think money to be a sufficient punishment for whoredom: But torments & cruel death is scant sufficient for professing the word of God, which doth utterly for bid and condemn whoredom. The 26. part. AS you went about to excuse the Pope in taking money of the Courtesans of Rome: so here you take upon 26. part. you to defend the pope for suffering or maintaining his 〈◊〉 stews in Rome, for these are your words that follow: But here, before I pass any further, I must say a word or Disco. pag. 〈◊〉 two touching the stews in room, the permission whereof by the pope, & by other catholic princes in their countries, is accounted so heinous a matter by our adnersaries, as it may answered, but that we thereby allow of unchaste life. Which is a most false and wrongful charge, as may appear by that which followeth. First the pope with all the catholics that ever wrote, condemneth and detesteth the act of simple fornication as a deadly sin and damnable to the doers without repentance. And our adversaries shall never be able to charge truly our Catholic doctrine with the contrary. It seemeth you would be known to be a proctor for the pope in the suffering and upholding of his Stews, and also for the Catholic princes, but if we and these countries that have no such Catholic kings as you mean, should have houses of stews: your words import that you would not allow us nor them therein. Therefore the Catholics have a pre-eminence of the protestants, for it is lawful (by your law) for them to commit whoredom, and to have Stews, but for protestants it is not Well though the pope & you will not allow us to have whores: yet God & his son Christ doth permit us to have wives. And if you take me for an adversary of your religion, than I have already charged you withal, and proved in my said book called a persuasion from papistry, yea and also in this book, that your popish decrees, your doctors and doctrine, do not condemn it, but maintain and defend it. But lest you have forgotten it, I will put you in remembrance with this that doth follow Laurentius valla being one of the Cannons of Rome (and therefore one of your Catholic 〈◊〉 lib. 1. cap. 38. Church and doctrine) wrote thus: Omnino nihil interest utrum cum marito coeat mulier an cum amatore: Undoubtedly there is no difference whether a woman keep company with her husband or with her lover. And further it is thus noted in the decrees of the pope, qui non habet 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉. 34. is qui 34. loco illius concubinam debet habere: He that hath not a wife, in stead of her must or aught to have a concubine. Parisiis anno 〈◊〉. Also the gloze of the constitutions of Otho (which will not I hope be refused for a witness) saith thus, It seemeth that the Church (of Rome) ought to dissemble the fault of whoredom, for the pope's Marshal in deed receiveth tribute or pension of whores. Const. Othonis de 〈◊〉. clericorum remouend. It seemeth that the Catholic writer that wrote this gloze, did not greatly condemn or detest either simple or double fornication, unless dissembling or winking at whoredom be a condemning or detesting of the same. Whereby it doth not only appear that all your Catholic writers have not condemned and detested simple fornication: but also that the Courtesans have paid tribute to the pope, though you have defended the contrary. divers such I could bring, but these are sufficient for a taste, for you may feel by these how sweet the rest be. If such lessons as these condemn fornication, than the pope and all the Catholic writers that ever wort do condemn and detest the same: But seeing Laurentius valla, that was one of your catholic religion, and these notes and gloss of the pope's decree, do allow and maintain it: then I have both charged truly your Catholics withal, and have also proved, that some of your Catholics (as you call them) have not condemned and detested simple fornication as deadly 〈◊〉 and damnable: but have allowed and permitted it, as though it were no such damnable sin. Thus hereby it appeareth that your words are but wind, and that all your talk is not truth. If your pope's condemn and detest fornication, then why have they given licences to keep Concubines and harlots, as it hath been most manifest in divers countries. Nay in divers places under the pope, the Bishops and officials have not Acts & 〈◊〉. pag. 835. only suffered Priests to have Concubines, so that they paid certain sums of money: but also compelled chaste Priests, or Priests that would have lived without Concubines, to pay tribute for Concubines, affirming that the Bishop had need of money: which being paid, it should be lawful for them either to live chaste, or to keep Concubines at their pleasure. Therefore I must 〈◊〉 say, if licensing doth signify detesting, and allowing doth signify condemning, that then your Pope's 〈◊〉 Catholic prelate's, do detest and condemn simple cation: But if allowing and licensing, do signify allowing and licensing, than your holy Popes and prelate's have allowed and licenced, both simple and double fornication. Therefore I marvel how you can without blushing, affirm that the Pope with all the catholics that ever wrote, did condemn and 〈◊〉 fornication, as is before said, seeing the contrary is so evident and manifest. The Stews suffered at Rome, doth argue that the Pope, doth rather allow fornication, then condemn or detest it. Then you say further: Secondly, notwithstanding Discou pa. 99 this detestation, the civil Magistrate: may for the avoiding of a worse inconvenience, tolerate or permit this sin in some degree, without fault, and without any allowing of the sin itself: As GOD doth tolerate with wicked men, and with many wicked acts in the world, which he detesteth, and might notwithstanding let them if he would: and yet he doth not allow of them, for that he permitteth them. Though this be a jesuits judgement, yet we 〈◊〉 may not take it for gospel. Where have you learned that the civil Magistrate may, for the avoiding of a worse inconvenience tolerate sin in any degree that God hath forbidden, (yea and that without fault) 〈◊〉 it seemeth that you jesuits can pick out more for maintaining of whoredom out of the pope's jaw, than we christians can learn out of God's law, (for by God's law sin can not be suffered without fault that we can find.) If this be true that you say, than the civil Magistrate may tolerate and suffer loiterers, vagabonds and rogs (that will not work) to steal, thereby to avoid the inconvenience of hunger or famishing. But as work and labour is the right remedy to expel hunger, and not theft or stealing: So marriage is the right remedy, of your inconvenience (whatsoever it be) and not the suffering of the stews or whoredom. But I would feign know what worse inconvenience it is, that will be avoided, by suffering the stews, or permitting this 〈◊〉 sin of whoredom: (for you keep that secret to yourself, and have not here showed it). Can there come any worse inconvenience by not suffering the stews, or by banishing whoredom, than whoredom is itself 〈◊〉 (which God hath forbidden, and doth utterly decest) If you knew well what inconvenience it were, I think you would have uttered it: But because you conceal it, I will now reveal it. If your pope should put down his Stews, and not permit whoredom: Then it would drive the fornicators 〈◊〉 whores of Rome to marry. This I perceive is your inconvenience, that you count worse than suffering the Stews or whoredom. But though you jesuits count marriage a worse inconvenience than whoredom: yet Christ and S. Paul count whoredom a worse inconvenience than marriage. By your words that follow, it seemeth that you take it to be as lawful for the pope, and the civil Magistrates 〈◊〉 tolerate their Stews and woredome: as for God to tolerate the wicked men of the world to commit such wicked acts as they daily do. And so, because God suffereth such wicked sinners to live (as you think) unpunished: Therefore the pope may suffer the whores in his stews to commit whoredom without controlment. Whereby it appeareth that you allow the pope to do as God doth, verifying thereby the saying of Abbot Panormiran, who wrote thus: That (sin excepted) De elect. cap. licet. Abb. the pope can do in a manner, all that God can do. So that by this your holy Catholic doctrine, whatsoever God doth or hath done, the Pope may claim to do the like. As thus, God was angry with king Saul & thrust him out of his kingdom because he killed not king Agag at his commandment, being God's enemy: now if that pope may follow God & do as he did, them he may displace such kings & thrust them out of their kingdoms that will not kill his enemies the professors of God's word at his commandment. I think by this example the pope learned of God to depose emperors & kings as they have done. Also God suffered it not to rain of three years and six months among the Israelites 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 disobeying of 〈◊〉: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your 〈◊〉 arguments the pope may keep 〈◊〉 here in England without rain, with whom he is angry because we disobey him and his laws (which he is not able to do.) If the Pope might or could do thus, as you seem to allow him: we should have had neither prince, prosperity, peace, nor plenty, so long as we have had. But though you allow the pope to do that that God can do, in tolerating sins and wickedness: yet God and the pope are far unlike in their tolerating and suffering the same. For whereas God doth tolerate and suffer wicked sinners to see whether they will repent and amend or not, who, if they do not, than he punisheth them, one way or other: The Pope clean contrary, doth tolerate and suffer the Courtesans and whores of his Stews for money to sin unpunished though they neither repent nor amend. And whereas God doth not suffer them that he taketh for his loving children to sin uncorrected: The pope suffereth his catholic Courtesans of the Stews in Rome (whom he taketh as his dear darlings) to commit whoredom daily without any punishment. But I muse at this, that the pope can follow God in suffering of sin: and can not follow him in punishing of sin. For as God doth tolerate many wicked sinners: so hath he and 〈◊〉 daily punish many wicked sinners. But how can you prove that God doth 〈◊〉 tolerate wicked men to commit wickedness, that he doth not punish them for it: nay I am sure that no such wicked sinners do escape God's punishment: though the 〈◊〉 and whores of the Pope's Stews do escape the pope's punishment. For was not all the whole world drowned for their wickedness, except Noah and his family: was not zodom and Gomorra with all the countries thereabout destroyed with fire and 〈◊〉 from Heaven for their 〈◊〉 sin 〈◊〉 with many 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and destroyed, as well 〈◊〉 as particularly, which were too much for me to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And though you think that God tolerateth many to commit such wickedness 〈◊〉, that he detesteth, yet I am sure you cannot prove that he taketh money of them to permit them to sin, as the Pope doth on the Courtesans in Rome, for their whoredom. And it may be that some wicked men are 〈◊〉 punished of God that you think God 〈◊〉 tolerate to sin unpunished, for God doth correct and chasten his own children though he loveth them never so 〈◊〉: (for whom God loveth him he chasteneth) Now if God chasten and correct his dear and loving children, (live they never so virtuously) will he not punish the wicked that wallow in detestable sins, though it seemeth to you, that he doth tolerate them to sin unpunished: One may be punished of God for his wickedness though a 〈◊〉 doth not know of it. God hath his secret punishments in store for the wicked, which they shall taste when it shall please his divine Majesty. Yea and that which perhaps you take for no punishment, I take to be the greatest punishment of all. Do you think there can be a greater punishment, then for God to give men over to their own lusts: And greedily to take pleasure in sin and to wallow in all wickedness: I think not. And though you do see them prosper daily in health, wealth, pleasure and prosperity, without any misfortune, (as Polycrates did that was one of the thirty tyrants) and though God should so tolerate them in their wickedness that he detesteth, shall they therefore escape his punishment think you: No I warrant you: for those that God 〈◊〉 suffer to live so wickedly, and to draw sins together as it were with 〈◊〉, and to heap up sins one upon another, without any worldly plague or punishment, seem to be the children of wrath, and unless they repent and turn to God, doubtless shallbe punished in the torments of hell, which far exceed all the earthly punishments that can be devised, and whereas the one continueth but a while, the other shall be for 〈◊〉 and never end. Therefore though God doth tolerate (as you say) with wicked men & with many wicked acts in the world which he detesteth: yet they are not unpunished. therefore as you seem to 〈◊〉, unless to be in the intolerable and endless pain of hell be no 〈◊〉 but the whores of the Pope's Stews are not punished of the Pope, whose sins it seemeth he doth not detest but rather favour, because he suffeereth the same without punishment. And although God doth tolerate and suffer many most wicked & abominable sinners unpunished in this life to that sight of the world, according to his secret purposes only known to himself: yet it is too much for you (though you are a jesuite) to allow the Pope to tolerate and suffer the wicked sin of whoredom which the Almighty God hath flatly forbidden. Therefore you were best to council the pope to let God alone in his doings, and not to presume to do as be 〈◊〉, but to do as he 〈◊〉, unless you would have him to climb into heaven with Lucifer as 〈◊〉 angel, and to fall into 〈◊〉 with him as a Devil. The 27. part. THen after you say thus. Thirdly 〈◊〉 a naughty & wicked 27. 〈◊〉. thing may sometimes be necessary, & consequently Discovery. Pag. 99 tolerated without fault. (The corruption and lewd inclination of men supposed) If you learned this of Christ, I would have you show where I should find it. If it be the Apostles doctrine I would know which of them taught it: But if it be your own devise, (as I suppose it is) than I do not take your words to be of 〈◊〉 authority, especially when they repugn the Scriptures 〈◊〉 these do. Therefore I will be so bold to reprove the same with the words of Saint Paul, (if he may be allowed for 〈◊〉. 3. a sufficient author against you) who affirmeth, that their damnation is just that do evil that good may come thereof. Now if by Saint Paul's words, we may not do a small evil whereof great goodness may follow: Then the pope may not suffer shameful Stews for whoredom, which is a heinous sin whereof great mischiefs do come. And if their damnation be just that permit a small evil whereof goodness may grow: Then their 〈◊〉 must needs 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that do or permit many abominable sins, that bring great mischiefs withal. 〈◊〉 it appeareth that you have a deep consideration of the corruption and lewd inclination of men, but to correct such corruption, Saint Paul teacheth us saying: To avoid 1. Cor. 7. fornication let every man have his wife. But you that have a deeper sight herein then S. Paul, think it is better if men be full of corruption & lewdly inclined) to have Stews set up and suffered, that every man may have his harlot. I would have thought that a wicked thing & a fault had been so nigh a kin, that a wicked thing could not have been tolerated or suffered without a fault. But now because you say so I must change my mind, & think, that one may sin or suffer a wicked thing without fault. Doubtless you jesuits have a marvelous deep learning, you have here loosed such a knot, and unjoined such a joint, that neither jesus Christ himself, nor all his Apostles did ever undo. A wicked thing may sometimes be necessary with jesuits, because idolatry & blasphemy is counted most holy with them always: but a wicked thing cannot be 〈◊〉 meet with true Christians at any time. Surely you have waded very deep, for maintaining of the Pope's stews, & his suffering of that same: yea & you proved very learnedly before, that if the Courtesans paid money to that 〈◊〉, yet it were a punishment, & not an allowance of their life. But if one may be punished with paying of a noble for stealing xx. pound: I think that punishment would not make him leave stealing. The 28. part. AND than you follow with these words. It appeareth 28. part. plainly by Saint Paul who saith, that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Pag. 99 of necessity must needs be: and by Christ, who affirmeth that scandals (that is slanders) must needs come, & yet neither Christ allowed of scandals, nor Saint Paul of heresies. If that pope allowed no more of whoredom than Christ did of slanders, nor Saint Paul did of heresies: his Stews at Rome, would not have been so long up, nor the courtesans there so long suffered. Mark how you go about to beguile your simple Reader, as though these words of Christ or Saint Paul, would excuse the pope's Stews, or the Pope for suffering them: and as though the Pope in suffering the Stews, did not allow the Stews. Christ nor Saint Paul did speak of slanders or of heresies of any particular Town or City, where they had temporal or worldly power to suppress the same, (for they had no such government) as the Pope hath at Rome. For if they had, they would not have taken money of the scandalers or heretics as a due punishment therefore: as the Pope doth for whoredom at Rome. (which you excuse as a punishment for their evil life) For though Christ had no worldly authority, (for that his kingdom was not of this john. 18. world) yet he adventured without any worldly commission, to beat out the buyers and sellers out of the temple, so much Math. 21. he did detest their violating of the house of God. But if Christ should have taken money of the said changers of money, and so have gone his ways and let them alone: would it not have been thought that he had allowed their doings therein for money: Yes I believe: Even so whatsoever you say, the Pope doth allow the whores of Rome because he taketh yearly 〈◊〉 of them therefore, yea and is partaker with them in their sins and whoredom: For if he did not allow the Stews and their whoredom, he would whip the whores out of Rome as Christ did the money changers out of the temple, and would either pluck down the houses of the Stews, or else put honest and virtuous women in them. Thus though you would have Christ and Saint Paul to defend and bolster the Pope, for suffering the stews and Courtesans in Rome, yet neither Christ nor Saint Paul will serve your turn therein. Christ and Saint Paul are much beholden to you that bringeth them forth as witnesses for the upholding of Stews and whoredom. you that are a jesuit and maketh as though none 〈◊〉 jesus more than you, should have produced jesus in an honester cause than this, whatsoever you had done by S. Paul: but you are so far in love with the Pope, that to make him seem honest, you stick not to adventure to make jesus Christ unhonest: and to cover the Pope's shame, you would defame Christ. Surely when Christ was here on earth and unglorified, he spoke against whoredom, and do you think that he being now in heaven and glorified, will be a boulsterer of whoredom: Christ said when he was here, Whosoever looketh on a woman lusting after her, Math. 5. hath committed adultery with her already in his heart, and do you think now that he can suffer whoredom itself: If you love jesus, then bring not jesus forth to maintain your Pope's Stews and the whoredom in Rome. The 29. part. AND further to allow the Pope in permitting the Stews and whoredom you bring this reason, saying, 29. part. I might ask, why the protestants in England do permit Discovery. Pag. 99 usury by their laws, that is, doth not punish men for taking under ten of the hundredth? I perceive you jesuits have ripe wits to defend the Pope's Stews, and to approve his taking of money of that courtesans for their whoredom, to be lawful. It is a strange matter, that you can learn by our positive laws to maintain the pope's stews and to allow whoredom: but by our divine law the Gospel you cannot learn to put down the stews, and to reprove the Pope for suffering of whoredom. What our Prince's laws do herein permit, I have not to dispute with you: but this I will say, where can you approve, that any streets with us are appointed for usurers to dwell in as you have for whores in Rome: Or that they have any special houses to commit usury in for paying therefore a yearly tribute to our Prince, as your Courtesans have to commit whoredom for paying a yearly tribute to the pope: or it commonly known of us where to borrow money upon usury, as every one great and small do & may know at Rome where the Courtesans do dwell, where any may play the whoremonger for money that list: no I am sure. If we have any usurers, our Prince doth not know where they dwell: but you have allowed Courtesans in Rome, and the Pope knoweth where they remain. And moreover they that lend money in this sort with us pay no money therefore to our Prince: But the Courtesans in Rome, pay money for their whoring to the Pope. So that, it is the tribute and money that the Courtesans pay yearly to the Pope, that maketh him to suffer the Stews in Rome. The 30. part. YOU say that we must needs answer (for that we 30. part. do permit usury in taking under x. li. in the hundredth) Discovery. Pag. 100 that we allow not of the sin, but that we do it for avoiding a greater inconvenience: which is, least by punishing all usury, (as the Catholic Church doth) no man would lend any money at all. In deed I must needs say that no perfect and pure Protestants do allow the sin of usury: but I am sure the Pope doth allow and permit the sin of whoredom in the stews at Rome, because he may redress it and will not. And where you say we do it least by punishing all usury no man would lend any money at all: So by your own argument, your Pope will not put down the Stews nor banish the whores of Rome, lest no man should commit any whoredom there at all. This is the great inconvenience I perceive that your Pope meaneth to avoid by maintaining his Stews and Harlots in Rome, you may see how the Devil doth instruct you to confound yourselves. The 31. part. YOU say that there is no Prince in all the world which 31. part. doth or can use more means, than the Pope doth, to 〈◊〉. Pag. 101. draw all men from that vice and to reform those miserable women themselves. etc. If the Pope have the knowledge of all laws in his breast, and such a heavenly judgement as he maketh men believe he hath, than I muse that he can find no means to bring this his great desire to pass, surely if he would follow the example of our late king Edward in two points: he should not need to use so many needle's means as he doth. That is, to pluck down the stews, and also suffer his Priests and Prelates to marry, as King Edward did: Then he should draw men from that vice and those miserable women from their filthy living. But as long as he forbiddeth Priests to marry, and suffereth the Stews, and taketh money of the Courtesans as a punishment for their sin: (as you say) he shall never diminish it but rather increase it let him devise what means he can. And though he persuade them by Preachers as you say, and yet permitteth them for money to continue in the same, it is as though a master should persuade his servant and give him great warning that he should not rob his neighbour's Orchards: and yet when he hath stolen apples out of them, his said master is content to take and eat part of the apples that he hath stolen, and never blameth him for his offence. For though the Pope's Preachers persuade the Courtesans to refuse their whoredom as you say, yet the pope takes part of their money that they get in committing their whoredom, & neither punisheth nor chideth them for the same. Whereby they will refuse their whoredom no more, than the said servant will leave stealing of apples. Thus you like a learned jesuit have gone about to excuse the pope in suffering the stews at Rome, & for taking yearly money of the Courtesans for their abominable living, counting it a punishment for their sin not an allowance of their fault. But if you had been a true and perfect Christian, you would have accused the Pope for maintaining and permitting such detestable dealings, which Gods word and the Gospel doth utterly condemn. The 32, part. WHereas you writ that the society of the Anuunciata 32. part. (in Rome) do bury strangers and Discovery. Pag. 112. poor people which die in Rome, causing masses to be said for them, etc. For their charitable burying of strangers and poor people, and their other charitable deeds they are much to be commended, so that they do them not for a deserving reward at gods hand, or as meriting works: But for causing masses to be said for them, they are utterly to be reproved, for that God's word doth neither command it nor allow it, nay it is directly against God's word, and it is iniurtous to the precious passion of Christ, and therefore in any wise not to be used, as is proved in my said book called a persuasion from papistry. The 33. part. LAst of all you say, I will add one thing in testimony 33. part. of the Romans piety and devotion, which many in Discovery. Pag. 115. England, will rather laugh at than imitate: which is, that upon Maundie Thursday before Easter, they use to go to S. Peter's Church late in the night, whipping themselves until the blood stream from their bodies. They go; their faces all covered, except only two holes to look out at, & upon their bodies they have only a shirt of sackcloth cut so behind, that their shoulders appear naked, where, with whipeorde they beat themselves, for more than the space of one hour together. They go commonly above 600. in a company. The Societies of the 〈◊〉 S. Marcellus, and of the Confalons are chiefest in this matter. And they are each of them an hundredth commonly every year. Now the beaters go in order, two and two, and between every two beaters, go two other with torches. To see only this spectacle were a matter to move any man whatsoever. Besides these Societies, many private men do punish themselves very grievously in this holy week, for their offences past. Who covering their faces in such sort, as they may not be known, they go to all Churches of the City or the most part, beating them 〈◊〉 pitifully, until the blood do run from them in great quantity etc. This I perceive you have cold us, whereby we may know how full of piety and devotion the Romans are, but as Christ the son of God knew best of all other what is true piety and devotion: so he never told us, neither the Evangelists wrote of any such piety and devotion, as this which you say the Romans use. Saint Paul wrote a great large Epistle to the Romans, and yet he did not touch any whit of such whipping piety in the same. Either Saint Paul did forget to writ of this your whipping piety 〈◊〉 devotion in his said Epistle, or it was not worth the writing in his epistle, or else your pope hath devised a better piety & devotion than is in Saint Paul's Epistle. And now for that Christ never taught any such whipping piety or devotion, neither the Apostles ever did preach any such whipping piety or devotion, nor yet any of the Evangelists did ever write of any such whipping piety or devotion: then surely according to your doom, I think many English men will rather laugh at it than imitate it. But truly, I judge it rather to be lamented then imitated or followed. As these your godly Romans do go before Christ, because they whip themselves before he hath bid them: Even so they whip themselves a day before Christ himself was whipped. For by your saying they whip themselves on maunday thursday, and Christ was whipped as the next day after which commonly is called good Friday. Therefore as we Christians may count that for our good Friday, because as then Christ was whipped and shed his blood for our sins: so you jesuits and Romans may count maunday Thursday, for your good Thursday, because you whip yourselves and shed your blood then for your offences. But though you jesuits or Romans are ashamed in whipping and shedding your own blood for your own sins, as it seemeth, for that you cover your faces that you would not be known: yet jesus Christ the son of God was not ashamed to be whipped & scourged, for other and not for himself, and to shed his heartblood, for the sins of all faithful Christians, because his face was uncovered that every one might see him and know him. It appeareth that your holy and virtuous Romans, that whip themselves and shed their own blood for their own sins, neither regard Christ's whippings. nor stand need of his blood to wash away their sins: But we that are faithful Christians do wholly cleave and stick to Christ's whippings, and the shedding of his innocent blood, for the putting away of our sins and offences. I would fain know who taught you to whip and scourge yourselves and to shed your own blood for your offences? where have you red it? In what Scriptures can you find it? what Apostle hath preach it? or what godly Doctor hath declared it? if our own whippings might pardon our offences, or shedding of our own blood, could wash away our sins: Then what need Christ the son of God have come out of his heavenly and joyful kingdom to this earthly and sorrowful prison, and of a God to become man, and to be whipped and shed his blood? Can Christ have any greater enemies than you, that thus blot out his blood and painful death, which did it only for saving us out of hell? and apply that to your own whipping and blieding that is only due to Christ, and that none can 〈◊〉 but he? This I will tell you, whether you be 〈◊〉, or what ever you be, you that thus whip yourselves, yea though you whip all the blood out of your bodies, for the putting away of your offences: neither Christ's whipping, nor his blood will do you any pleasure, unless you leave this whipping of yourselves, and trust only to his whippings and to the shedding of his blood. You that thus whip yourselves for your own offences, you make yourselves your own Christ's: And they that are their own Christ's, shall never dwell in heaven with Christ. The mother of Christ was as able to be her own Saviour as you, and yet she never whipped herself nor shed her own blood, but trusted in God to be her 〈◊〉, saying: My soul doth magnify the Lord, and my spirit doth rejoice in GOD my Saviour. Here you may well perceive that she trusted not to save herself by whipping of herself: but she trusted to jesus Christ that was whipped for her, to be her Saviour, yea though he were her own son. You have written on the first side of your book 〈◊〉 words, (whereof before I have entreated something) There is none other name under heaven given unto 〈◊〉 wherein we must be saved. And that is the name of jesus. Now, unless you that thus whip or punish yourselves are called by the name of jesus: then how can your whippings save you or put away your offences? for I am sure that few or none of your holy. Romans that thus whip themselves, are so called, then how can 〈◊〉 own whippings save you, or put away your offences, for that he must needs be called jesus, that can and must 〈◊〉 us. Mark how you are wounded with your 〈◊〉 weapon, and strucken down with your own staff. Thus though you seem to favour the name of jesus: yet with your doings you altogether derogate and dishonour jesus. I do muse that you that have red the scriptures, and count yourself to be so learned in the same, that you can once think 〈◊〉 these whippers of themselves (though the whip 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from the and the flesh from the bones)! can thereby put away their offences: Nay thereby they increase their offences, offending God thereby most heinously. Truly I can not but marvel that you were not ashamed to put it into your book, commending thereby the Romans piety and devotion: Considering the Christian reader must needs think, that thereby they procure their utter destruction by going about to put away their sins by their whipping, and shedding of their own blood, which only Christ can do and none else. Saint Paul was scourged three times with rods, but he neither whipped himself as your devout Romans do, neither did he say that his 〈◊〉 or sins was put away by the whipping of his body: though your Romans (by your own sayings) do whip themselves very grievously in the week before Easter for their offences past. But these your holy Romans after Easter and all the year after may sin as freshly as ever they did: for what need they care seeing one days whipping of themselves, will put away a hole years offences. Either your doctrine is very false or you are very fools, for if you can whip away your sins, then what need you fear the pope's perilous 〈◊〉: And if you may put away your offences by your whippings while your are alive, what need you pay money for masses when 〈◊〉 are 〈◊〉: And if you have whipped away your sins before your death, than what sins have you for the mass to release after your 〈◊〉: you thought by this your whipping 〈◊〉 to extol your Romans for their 〈◊〉 but thereby you have blazed abroad their folly and madness. You say to see only this spectacle were a matter to move any man whatsoever. In deed this spectacle moveth me, though I see it not, to bewail the 〈◊〉 foolish and bewitched Ramanes, that with their 〈◊〉, drive themselves such a pace to the devil, that he may whip 〈◊〉 them in the endless pains of helt: for the ofter they thus whip themselves, the faster and speedilier they drive themselves to the devil, if this their whipping would help them to heaven, the Devil would make them more slow in whipping themselves. Therefore how mad are your romans that take such pains to go unto hell, where the torments are endless, and the pains never cease. I pray God they may leave whipping of themselves, and trust only to the whippings of Christ: And to cease to shed their own blood for their offences & to put their whole trust in Christ, that was whipped and shed his precious blood for the sinews of all them that ever shall be saved. This is your holy religion that you and your Seminaries seek daily to set up here in England by your privy practices and secret sedition, to the destruction of your prince and country as you hope, but to your own confusion I am sure, as you may see if you will, and some have felt against their wills. The 34. part. YOu say in the commendation of your Church of Rome 34. part. as followeth. Albeit private old men may lack wit, Disco. pa. 136 yet Chirstes old spouse which is the Church can not. If all be true that you say, than it is so in deed, for you bring none other autour but yourself, neither any argument for proving of the same. It is impossible but that your old spouse should be very full of wit, if they have such wise Cardinals and pregnant pillars as Petrus Asotus and Hosius Hosius 〈◊〉. were, that affirmed that the same Council wherein our saviour Brent. lib. 20. Christ was condemned to die, had the holy ghost, and that the same was a just decree whereby they pronounced that Christ was worthy to die. Moreover he could not chose but Disti. 13. be full of wisdom, that wrote upon the pope's decree, that the Item in mark jews had committed mortal sin, if they had not nailed Christ to the Crosse. These members of your holy mother your old spouse were no fools I 〈◊〉, that took part with Annas and Caiphas against Christ. They might well have devilish wit, but I am sure they had no godly wisdom. In deed the true Church of Christ which is governed, and taught by the holy ghost can want no godly wisdom: but your Church of Rome (which you count Christ's old spouse) hath and doth lack both learning wit and honesty as before it doth manifestly appear. That pope was very full of wit, (which you count the chief of your Church,) that gave judgement and sentence, that they at Ratilpone in Germany, and the Abbay of Saint Device in France, had both the whole body of Saint Device at once as is before mentioned. He had more wit than Solomon, for Solomon could make but one child into two half children: but your said profound and wise pope, made one Saint Device into two whole Saint Denises. Belike the Pope thought that seeing every simple and rascal priest could make Christ's body at one time to be in many places: them he being the prince of all priests was able to make the body of S. Device to be in two places. And further your old spouse of Rome can want no wit, because it can not err if it would, and no marvel, for it can have the holy Ghost in the likeness of an Owl to instruct it, for in one of your late Councils in Rome as they were singing and roaring of Veni creator spiritus, that is Nicol. de Clavengiis. Come holy ghost, etc. by and by (at their beck and calling) a poor old Owl amazed with the noise, (thinking belike she was the holy ghost that they called for so earnestly) leapt out of the hole where she sat, and came down in the mids of them, and sat amongst them. Thus you may perceive that there is a great difference between the Spirit of God and the Pope's holy Ghost. For God the holy Ghost descended and appeared to Christ in likeness of a fair white dove: but the pope's holy ghost did descend and appear to the Pope in the shape of a foul evil favoured owl. Surely they are foully overseen that will not be guided by your Church that is taught and instructed by such a holy ghost. Your old spouse can never want 〈◊〉 that 〈◊〉 inspired by such a holy spirit. The 35. part. AFter this your discovering of Master Nicols manners 35. part. and learning to his reproach as you thought, and commending your own follies, you discommend and go about to discredit my said book called A persuasion from papistry. But though you decide it without any reproving or confuting thereof: yet I have so reproved and confuted such parts of this your discovery as I thought necessary, & was meet for me to do, that you are so uncovered, that the wise may see that you dance naked in a net, though you think yourself well enough covered. And these are your words concerning the same. Of late in the Discovery. Pag. 1 83. midst of our persecutions, there came forth a weighty work of 40 sheets of paper, made by one Thomas Lupton, entitled a persuasion from papistry, he would have said a dissuasion, but that papistry and persuasion began both with a letter. I must needs confess my said book was not published very long since, it is so lately come forth, that it seemeth you had no leisure to peruse the same as you should, for if you had red it as advisedly as many have done: you would not (I think) have derided it as you have done. You say, it came forth in the midst of your persecutions. It came forth at such time as it had pleased God to give me his instrument leave to finish the same: for of myself, (I am most certain) I neither began it, proceeded in it, neither finished it. For if a sparrow light not on the ground without Mat. 10. God's providence: then the pen of a man God's image doth not light on the paper without God's direction, that writeth in Christ's cause and indefence of God's word. But that it was in the midst of your persecutions I hardly can think, for that it were requisite that they should begin, before they be in the midst. In deed her highness doth not persecute you as queen Marie did us, yet she hath power to punish you much more than she doth. And because you have written in derision against my said book, which I am now in hand to defend, I will now write some part of my words therein touching this time which you call the midst of your persecution. And these are my words. If you would mark but her majesties power, and knew Asperswasion from papistry pag. 50. 51. what she may do, and weigh your own doings, and what ye ought to do, truly you would say then that she is the most miledest and mercifullest Queen one of them that ever reigned. You think not a miss in her grace and count her not unmerciful though she put thieves to death for stealing, which GOD hath not commanded to be punished with death: and can not you see that her Majesty is marvelous merciful, in that she suffereth you to live, for disobeying God's word, and committing Idolatry, which GOD by his law hath commanded to be punished with death. King josias 〈◊〉 the idolatrous Priesteupon 4. King. 23. the altars that committed Idolatry, and yet he is reckoned for a Godly king: But our merciful Queen Elizabeth hath not burned the popish priests on the altars where they committed idolatry in saying of Mass, and worshipped a piece of bread for the body of Christ (which she might have done if she would) and yet you count not her for a godly and merciful Queen. You praise and extol Queen Marie to the heavens for using cruelty, and for burning her humble and faultless Subjects: But if our 〈◊〉 Elizabeth should use lawful severity on her stubborn and disobedient people, God's foes and her enemies that desire her death and destruction, the confusion of their country, and the ruin of this Realm, you would dispraise and slander her, and say she were a cruel tyrant. Nay for all her highness hath used you so mildly and mercifully as she hath done, yet some of you would darken her deserts (if you could) in saying most spitefully and falsely, that this is the time of tyranny, these are the days of persecution, this I grant, but not in England, though you mean in England. Truly such as do say so, must needs I think speak against their conscience and knowledge: unless they take mercy for cruelty, and cruelty for mercy, and then I may say unto them as Esay said to the jews, Woe be to you that call evil good and good evil etc. If this be the time of tyranny and persecution, when you that are manifest enemies to your Queen and country before well proved are suffered to live peaceably, to enjoy your goods quietly, to go at your liberty, or imprisoned to far daintily, and there to live merrily, or to be released upon surety: Then what was Queen Mary's time, when her simple, humble and faultless subjects were cruelly imprisoned, in stocks and chains & other engines tormented, most tyrannously racked, their friends to come to them not suffered, on the bare boards and ground lodged, to have pen and ink and candle light not permitted, for want of meat to be famished, in prisons privily to be murdered, and abroad in every man's eyes to be burned. That time of Queen Mary to all wise men, may rather seem to be the time of cruelty, tyranny, and persecution, than this mild and merciful time of our Queen Elizabeth. I beseech God to open your eyes to see how her grace doth persecute you, for if you did see (yet I fear some are blind for the nonce) you would then say, that she persecuteth you none other wise, than the loving father doth his child, and as the good schoolmaster doth persecute his scholar that he would feign have to learn. Thus much concerning your now persecution, I have declared in my said book, whereby it may plainly appear, that yours is rather a pleasant pastime than a painful persecution, to that that the Protestants felt in Queen Mary's time: therefore you cannot 〈◊〉 say that my said book came forth in the midst of your persecutions, but in the midst of your easy and careless living. The 36. part. YOU call my said book a weighty work of forty 36. part. sheets of paper. The proud and learned Scribes and Discovery. Pag. 183. Pharisees and the other common people thought the 〈◊〉 two mites were but of a small value: but in that sight Luke. 21. of Christ they were counted great for that it was all she had. Even so that my said simple book (being all that I was able to do) may be counted light in your judgement, but before God I am sure it is so weighty, that it will weigh down all your learned books that you writ for the maintenance of the Pope & your Romish Church. And though in 〈◊〉 you name it a weighty work: yet I have proved in good earnest that the book wherein you deride it, is but a very light work, for that this my answer hitherto hath weighed it clean down. But though you count it a very simple and light work: yet I must content myself there with, for so the Pope's learned Doctors counted and esteemed the Scriptures. For Ludovicus a Canon of the Church of Ludovicus citatur ab illirico in Norma concilii. Laterane in Rome openly in an Oration pronounced in the late Conventicle of Trident for the maintaining of the decrees where of you are so deeply sworn, said as followeth. Ecclesia est vivum pectus Christi: scriptura autem est quasi mortuum Attramentum: The Church is the lively breast of Christ: But the scripture is as it were dead ink. The Bishop of Poiteer in the same your godly counsel of Trident john Sleidanus lib. 23. said thus: Scriptura est res inanimis, & muta, sicut 〈◊〉 sunt reliquae leges politicae: The scripture is a dead & dumb thing, as are all other politic laws. To this end writeth Albertus Pigghius, Si dixeris haec referri oportere ad Albertus' pigghius controver 3. de Ecclesia. judicium Scripturarum, etc. If thou say, these matters must be put over to the judgement of the scriptures, thou showest thyself to be void of common reason. For the scriptures are dumb judges and cannot speak. Eckius Martinus Kennitius in examine con. Tridontini. pag. 32. called the Scriptures evangelium Nigrum, & Theologiam Attramentariam: The black Gospel and inken divinity. Furthermore in the discommendation of the scriptures Pigghius writeth thus: Sunt scripturae ut non minus Pigghius Hierar. lib. 3. cap. 3. fol. 103. vere, quam festiue dixit quidam, velut Nasus cereus, qui sehorsum, illorsum, & in quamcunque volveris partem, trahi, retrahi, fingique facile permittit: The scriptures as one man both truly and merrily said, is like a nose of wax, that easily suffereth itself to be drawn backward, and forward, and to be moulded and fashioned, this way, and that way, and howsoever ye list. Thus reverently did your Doctors of your Romish Church write of the most holy Scriptures. You wrote immediately before these words, It is a world to see what pillars of defence they have got, what grave writers in their cause, what books they suffer to come out against us daily. But may not I say to you and that more rightly and truly: It is a most lamentable thing both to see and to hear, what pernicious and pestiferous pillars, your Church of Rome hath, and what impudent writers you have in your cause, and what beastly books your holy father and you do suffer to be in print and go abroad, wherein the holy Scripture and word of God is made a jesting and 〈◊〉 stock: The simplest, the unlearnedst, & the youngest writer that is or ever was amongst that professors of the Gospel, may be counted grave writers, in comparison of these your now mentioned doctors. Whatsoever you count of our writers, you never found that we wrote so unreverently and so decestablie of the holy word of God the tryar of all truth, as these and other of your romish grave writers have done. These your grave writers might be ancient and grave men to see to: but they have written most childishly, 〈◊〉, fond, falsely and devilishly. It is not the gravity of the person that maketh the writing grave, but the grave and true writing shows the gravity of the person: therefore if you consider well, your grave pillars that wrote as is before, in that defence of your church: you have no great cause mockingly and restingly to call us grave writers, as though none but they of your 〈◊〉 can be grave writers. And now for that your Pope's pillars and your grave writers, do call the scriptures which is the holy word of GOD, dead Ink, a lifeless letter, a dumb judge that cannot speak, a black Gospel, inken Divinity, and a nose of wax, whereby they took the holy Bible not to be any weighty work, but a book of small importance and very light: (though it be the weightiest work of all other) than it is no marvel, though you count my book to be a very light work. But I fear (if you turn not to the Gospel from the Pope, as my said book doth 〈◊〉 persuade you) that it (as light as you make it) will prove heavy against you at the last day, and then rise as a witness against you jesuits, as the people of Ninivee that repented at the preaching of jonas, and the Queen of Saba, shall rise and witness against the jews, that repugned or withstood Christ. For if the dust that the Apostles did shake from their feet shall be a witness against the unbelieving and wicked jews: than it is not unlike but that my said book, which doth 〈◊〉 persuade you to embrace the Gospel, shall be a witness against you obstinate and incredulous jesuits. Though my said book be forty sheets of paper, yet you have not confuted any one word thereof, neither approved that there is any lie in the same, (though in pour margin you writ lupton's lies) and whereas you have written scant the fourthpart of one sheet in deriding & discrediting my said book of forty sheets, without confuting or reproving any one part of that same: I have now written above twenty sheets of paper, against you for depraving and slandering the same, wherein I have most manifestly reproved, divers parts of your 〈◊〉 book of Discovery, besides the defence of mine own book. If I had left my name out of my book as you have done yours: you could not so rightly have hit of the same. But as they that have a true and just cause in hand need not fear to utter their name, (as I am most sure I have): So they that deal unjustly, & take partiu a vile and noughty cause, are glad to hide their name as now you have done. Which concealing of your name doth not a little discredit your cause. The 37. part. BEcause I have entitled my said book, A persuasion 37. part. from papistry, therefore it seemeth you judge that the 〈◊〉 is utterly disgraced, and for that you would have it known, that you are able to teach or rather control me, you say I would have said a dissuasion, but that papistry and persuasion begun both with a letter. Who would have thought that it had lain in a jesuite to know what a Christian would have said, your name doth import that you should be well learned, but I would never have judged until I did hear it of yourself, that you had been so deeply learned as to know a man's thought, you say (as shall appear hereafter) that it seemeth I have been some Musician, but whatsoever I have been, it is not unlike but that you have been or are some fortune teller: for you that can declare a man's thought, can easily tell folks their fortune. It seemeth to me that as the Pope hath a heavenly judgement in his breast, so you have worldly men's thoughts in your bosom. But lest you should take too deep a conceit in your knowing of men's thoughts, to put you out of doubt you have myste of my thought, it was never in my mind to say a Disuasion. I know not your age no more than I know your name, but it may be that before you ever knew any letter of the book, that I knew the difference between persuadere and disuadere. And now that you have mist my thought, I will not stick to tell you 〈◊〉 thought. Because my whole drift in my said book is to persuade you and all other to God's word from Papistry, 〈◊〉 for that in my judgement the title would have been too long, if I should have said, A persuasion to God's word from papistry, I thought it good, (for the shortness of the title) to leave out God's word (as a thing to be understanded) and to entitle it a persuasion from Papistry, as I did in deed, thus I have not only showed you that you have mist of my thought (as good a Clerk as you are) but also my very intent and thought in entitling my said book, as it is. And though I could not sufficiently prove the contrary, but that there had been some error in this word Persuasion, and that the sense did require this word, Disuasion, (whereby it ought to have been a disuasion from Papistry): yet you know, this word Disuasion is seldom or never used especially among the common people, for whose sakes I made my said book as wellas for the learned. And as I wrote it to allure Papists to God's word, so I made it to make protestants & the simple people to shun papistry. For every one saith commonly upon occasion, I persuaded him from play, I persuaded him from drunkenness, I persuaded him from stealing, I persuaded her from folly, and such like: and not I dissuaded him from play, I dissuaded him from drunkenness, I dissuaded him from stealing, or I dissuaded her from folly, so that this is to be considered, that: Loquendun & scribendum cum multis, Sapiendum cum paucis. Therefore, if I had used persuasion, which the most do know and use in steed of disuasion, which few do understand and use, though there had been some small error by oversight, as by good foresight there was none, (as before is well proved): yet me thinks you being a jesuite and a professor of jesus, should rather have borne with an oversight or an unwilling error, then to write and publish that for a fault which is no fault at all. But if you had not controlled me thus in the intiteling of my book, rather of malice then of matter, and of curiosity than of cause, to the disabling of my learning the more to extol your own knowledge: you yourself would not have offended in the like, yea and that so manifestly, that by no means you are able to excuse it. For in the 110. page or side of your said discovery, (being the seventh leaf of G. the second side & second line) you have discovered your own unhonest dealing, in these words that follow: Therefore have Discovery. Pag. 100 the noble matrons of Rome procured an other house, called Casapia, behind Pantheon, where these women may come for a time to prove what they will resolve upon, in which time the said matrons, do omit no 〈◊〉 to persuade them from all dishonesty for the time to come etc. Hear a Christian hath taken a jesuite napping, for you say that the matrons do omit no means to 〈◊〉 them from all dishonesty. I know not what law you have amongst you, but I would think it is as lawful for a Christian to say a persuasion from Papistry, as for a jesuite 〈◊〉 say a persuasion from dishonesty. Therefore where you writ, I would have said a disuasion, but that papistry and persuasion began both with a letter, now do I write that you should have said disuasion, because dishonesty and disuasion begin both with a letter. And as you think that papistry beginning with a P. did put me in mind to say persuasion because it began also with a P: So I think that dishonesty beginning with a D. should like wise have put you in remembrance to have said disuasion because it began also with a D. And as by your words I had some occasion to say a persuasion from papistry, because papistry and 〈◊〉 began both with a letter: yet you had no such occasion to say a persuasion from dishonesty, because dishonesty and persuasion begin with contrary letters. Thus as the wicked through God's goodness fall many times into the same pits that they make for the Godly: so you being a jesuite are 〈◊〉 fast in your own snare, which you laid for a Christian. In this your disabling of my skill in the entitling of my said book, thereby to bring your own knowledge in credit, you have gained as the vain glorious Priest did, that (to increase his own glory in learning) controlled a young scholar Mark this. for speaking true latin. Which was thus, a man having a son at home with him whom he had put to learning, being very desirous, to know whether he had profited well or not: desired the Parson or vicar of the Parish to examine and appose his said son. And then the said Priest (being both curious and vain glorious) asked the young man what was latin for a Priest? To whom he answered, Sacerdos, no said the Priest, therein you are deceived: For who hath the chiefest learning or wisdom but priests: Therefore Sapientia is a very fit latin word for a Priest, wherewith the sober and wise young man held him content, then immediately the Priest seeing a Cat, said to the said young man, I pray you what is latin for a Cat: The young man answered him that Catus was Latin for a Cat, no said the Priest a Cat hath very sharp nails, and therefore Asper is the right latin word for a Cat: whom the young man did not contrary. And the said Priest as he was sitting by the fire, asked the said Scholar what was latin for fire: Forsooth said he Ignis, that is not so said the Priest, for when a man cometh in very cold, what maketh him more glad than a good fire: Therefore there is no fit name for fire then Laeticia, all which words the Scholar kept well in his mind, but yet said nothing. Then as they all walked abroad after in the yard, the Priest espying a pond or ditch with water, said to the Scholar, what is latin for water: Then the Scholar told him that Aqua was latin for water, no said the Priest you are wide, for as there is a marvelous great abundance of water aswell on the main land as in the deep and broad Sea: so the best latin word that can be for water is abundantia, and as they walked a little further the Prtest espying a barn, said to the scholar, tell me what is latin for a Barn: then the young man said that Horreum was latin for a Barn, that is not so said the Priest, for what greater joy can be to a man than to see his Barn full of corn: Therefore Gaudium is the true latin word for a Barn. When the scholars father heard, that the Priest contraried his son in every thing that he asked him, he was very angry with his son and said, all that he had spent on him was in vain. Sir said the Priest your son will do well enough, he hath not yet the years to attain to our learning. And thus he made the simple & unlearned man believe, that he had controlled his son rightly, whereas he did it but to set forth his own vainglory (as you have done). This young scholar remembering well the priests new latin, thought to control him with an example without any arguments, though the priest controlled him with blind arguments without any example, and so, soon after he got a Cat and tied a fire brand at her tail, and put her into the priests barn that was full of corn, and when he had so done, he came to the priests window and cried aloud saying, O sapientia, sapientia, Asper currit cum Laeticia, & nisicitius veneris cum abundantia, nunquam intrabis in gaudium. Which is by the priests own devised latin, (but not according to true latin) O priest priest, the Cat doth run with fire, and unless thou come the sooner with water, thou shalt never enter into thy barn. But for that the priest had forgotten his own latin, and took the same words truly as they signified in deed, which is O wisdom wisdom, sharp runneth with gladness, and unless thou come the sooner with abundance, thou shalt never enter into joy, the Priest stirred never a whit, for he had clean forgot the signification of his own devised latin, whereby his barn and all his corn was burned. And thus as the priest gained but little, for controlling the Scholar when he said true: so you have not gained much in controlling me for the intiteling of my book. And if it was a great fault in the priest to forget five words of latin which he taught the young scholar: than it is a fowl shame for to forget one English word, wherein you controlled me. And if it were a shame for the priest, for refusing his own latin, wherewith vain gloriously he discredited the scholar to his father, and took the true meaning of the scholars words: than it can be no great praise to you to refuse your own English word, which you wrote vaynegloriously to diseredite me to all the whole realm, & to use my word that you reproved me for. Thus I trust I have defended the title of my book called A persuasion from papistry, and sufficiently answered you for your curious comtrolling me, because I put not in 〈◊〉 for persuasion. The 38. part. AFter this your controlling of the title of my book, these are your words that follow: Of this authors estate and calling I can not yet learn, but that he 〈◊〉. part. seemeth to have been some musician in time, for Pag. 183. that much of his matter 〈◊〉 from him in rhyme. You can not yet learn of my estate and calling you say, what remedy, I trust you shall well enough hereafter. But you have one great advantage of me, for you know my name and so do not I yours, whereby with travel and search you may learn my estate & calling: but which all the travel & search that I am able to make, I can not learn neither your state nor conditions, because you hide your name. I think you have left your name out of your book because you would not have us learn your state and conditions. Though you know not my calling, for all you know my name: yet I think I know your calling though I know not your name. I take that your calling is to be a jesuite and to be one of the Pope's sworn disciples: in which your calling though you rejoice, doubtless you have a great cause to mourn & lament, if you deeply weigh and consider your execrable oath. I have a calling also though not great in the sight of the world, (wherefore I think you esteem my work the less) Even jesus Christ the Son of God that called Peter and Paul and the rest of the Apostles, hath called me. (I thank his divine Majesty for it) where unto I firmly believe that I was called before the foundation of the world according to the sayings of S. Paul, for we know (saith he) that all things work for the best unto them that love god, which also are called of purpose, for those which he knew before, he also ordained before, that they should be a like fashioned to the shape of his Son, that he might be the first begotten among many brethren, And whom he appointed before, them also he called, and whom he called, them also he justified, whom he justified them also he glorified. Rom. 8. Which calling I take to be no simple nor small calling, nay it is a higher calling than to be called to be either pope or prince: for thereby I am called to be one of the members of Christ, which assureth me, that the body and head 〈◊〉 at length be together. And for that Christ my head (whereof through God's goodness I am a member) is now in heaven and shall reign as a king there for ever: then I one of his members and part of his body shall reign for ever with him in heaven. This is my chief calling I thank God. Now if I be called to be an inheritor of such a kingdom which is the kingdom of heaven passing all other kingdoms, than my estate can not be simple nor small: for he that hath an estate of inheritance, in the kingdom of heaven (as I believe verily I have through jesus Christ) that greatest emperor hath no such inheritance on the earth, the fee simple of the best Lordship in the world is not comparable to it. Now you have learned both my estate and calling, which I myself have told you, that you should take no further travel nor pains, in learning my estate and calling: for it seemeth by your saying, that you mean to try out my estate and calling, for that you say as yet you can not learn it, as though you doubt not but at length to find it out. Therefore briefly (to save you some travel) I myself have showed you my estate and calling. It may be that this that I have told you is not my estate and calling that you are so desirous to learn, but my worldly calling and estate: which if you did know, than it seemeth you would work wonders. For then belike you would confute my book, which confuting, perhaps you keep in store until that time: Thinking belike it is not worthy of confuting unless it were made by some profound leaned doctor, or one that is of some great estate & calling. But if young Daniel, though he was neither doctor of divinity, neither of any great worldly estate or calling, both confounded and condemned the two learned wicked judges that were of great estate and worldly calling, that sought the death of innocent Susanna: then why may not I, though I am neither a profound Doctor, neither of any great estate or worldly calling, have sufficient knowledge, to confute and confound with the word of God, your jesuitical or papistical doctrine and the pope's devilish Doctors, that persecute, kill and murder the innocent members of Christ the professors of the Gospel: or else it may be that the confuting of my said book consisteth in the knowing of my calling and estate. You were best never learn my calling and estate, and so you may have a very good excuse, not to trouble yourself with the confuting of my book. But if I thought you stayed from confuting of it for lack of knowledge of my worldly calling and estate: I would myself describe the same at large unto you, but I hope there is no such mystery, in confuting, unless it be found out of late by the sincere society of the jesuits. Yet that you may have some better guess of my calling and estate, I will say thus much unto you (if it will do you any pleasure) I am neither preacher nor minister (I would to God I were apt or able for such a worthy function) neither prebendary, dean, archdeacon, parson nor vicar, neither have nor yet ever had, any living or worldly profit or commodity by any of the same: Therefore I trust to escape the name of a notable and infamous liver, wherewith of your courtesy you have entitled our preachers and ministers. But if my not being a preacher or minister will not save me from your slander, I must arm myself patiently to suffer it, for as long as I do not deserve it, I care the less, (beseeching God that I do not) I had rather a great deal you should speak evil of me then say well of me, for this I am sure of, that you wilful and determined papists, and sworn or rather for sworn jesuits, (as long as you are so) can not commend a good Protestant nor dispraise an evil papist: therefore if you should commend me, I must become a papist, from which God defend me, or you must be protestants, which I beseech God to grant, wherefore I may rejoice if you speak evil of me, for than I am sure to be a professor of God's word: but I may lament if you say well of me, for than I am sure I should be a papist, and an enemy to the Gospel. If you could prove that I have been a traitor, a murderer, a drunkard, a bearer of false witness, and maker of discord, an oppressor or an extortioner or any such notorious malefactor (which I thank God you can not) that should not daunt me neither make me once to shrink, but should cause me rather to rejoice not that I had been such a sinner, but that God of his goodness had called me, from being a favourer of vice to be a lover of virtue, and from a servant of Satan, to be a child of God. Saint Paul was not ashamed to tell openly yea more Acts. 22. than once or twice, that he persecuted the saints of God then 1. Cor. 15. which there can not be a greater offence: yet he did not rejoice Gal. 1. therein, but in that God called him to the Gospel and that he was persecuted as one of the saints of God, and therefore with Saint Paul I am not ashamed what I have been, but I rejoice that God of his goodness hath opened unto nice the light of his gospel, so that neither slander, reproach, neither any thing shall dismay me, for that I am made a member of Christ, and I say with S. Paul when I mas a child I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I imagined as a child, etc. But now through God's grace and goodness, I am that I am. And if I had been never so evil, yet I may rejoice 1. Cor. 13. to come from evil to be a professor of the gospel & the servant of God: rather than you to shrink from the gospel (though you lived blameless in the sight of the world) and now to become jesuits revolting from our saviour to satan, & from your prince to the pope. The 39 part. YOu say, that he seemeth to have been some musician in (time, for that much of his matter passeth from him in time. 39 part. You that can tell before hand what one would say: you are able quickly to turn prose into time. It is a strange matter that you that perhaps have not read my book through, can find that the most of my matter therein is rhyme, when I that made it am most sure there is not one verse of rhyme in it. I think you are as well skilled in prose as some of your pope's was in grammar, either you were in some pleasant dream when you wrote this, or you never read my said book, or else surely you do not know prose from rhyme. I think you do take latin verses to be english rhyme, & so you may have some rhyme to charge me with all. I remember I wrote two verses of Baptista Mantuanus in my said book, and that were these. Vivere qui sancte cupitis, discedite Roma, Persuasion from papistry. Omnia cum liceant, non licet esse bonum. If these latin verses be the rhyme you meant of, (for other pag. 111. rhyme there is not in all the book) than I must needs confess that some part of my matter is rhyme, but not much of my matter as you say, unless two lines be much matter in forty sheets of paper, and then the sheets must be very small, or else the two lines must be marvelous great. I think in deed much of the meaning of my matter in the same book, is contained in the said two latin verses: For all the Idolatry, blalphemie, pride, mischiefs and errors, that I persuade you and all other from in that book, is committed and practised in Rome, and therefore the effect of much of my matter contained in my said book, is comprehended in the said two latin verses, which belike you took for Enlishe rhyme. And because I would have you to consider the same well, I will now turn the same latin rhyme into plain english prose: which is this that followeth: All ye that would live godly, get you away from Rome: for whereas all things there are lawful, it is not lawful to be good. This is the prose of all the latin rhyme in my said book, for other english rhyme I am sure there is none. If you mark this rhyme well, it shows that your holy city of Rome, is more meet for jesuits then for Christians. I think you picked a quarrel with me for the nouce to make me show you the rhyme of my book. Because you would have me to praise your holy city of Rome, you have in your discovery made great long discourses in commending the godly customs & charitable works of your city of Rome: but Baptista Mantuanus here in two lines hath extolleth her out of measure. Well, though you say that much of my matter in my said book is rhyme, & no rhyme at all therein: yet your hole matter wherein you have 〈◊〉 forth my rhyming, is nothing but time. for these are your words, wishing the indifferent reader to mark whether the same be rhyme or not. Of this authors estate and calling I can not yet learn, But that he seemeth to have been some musician in time, for that much of his matter passeth from him in rhyme. Though you would make men believe that my prose is rhyme: yet the indifferent reader can not think, that your rhyme is prose. It is a great oversight in you to say that much of my matter of forty sheets of paper is rhyme, and can not prove that there is one verse of 〈◊〉 in all the hole book: which you have affirmed only in two lines, & yet both the same lines are nothing but rhyme. You would have me evil thought of for rhyming, though I rhymed not at all: and can you be well thought of that reproveth me with nothing but rhyme: It appeareth here by your learned and advised writing, that I have been a musician because of my running: then I trust I am discharged from being a musician because in my said book I have not rhymed at all. Surely it seemeth that you have a deep and mystical judgement in the finding out of the ground and causes of things. I remember that before it showed plainly by your argument, that the going of M. Nicols from Wales to England, from England to Flaunders, from Flaunders to Rome, and from Rome to the pulpit in the tower of London was the cause that he was borne at cowbridge in wales, as in the same place it may more plainly appear. And as by your learning you found out that M. Nicols coming from Rome to the pulpit in the tower of London was the cause he was borne at Cowbridge in Wales: so by your deep knowledge, you have I perceive found out, that my rhyming is the cause that I was a musician. For your own words show no less which are these that follow. He seemeth to have been some Musician in time, for that much of his matter passeth from him in rhyme. Hereby it appeareth by your rhyme, that if I could not have 〈◊〉, I had never been a 〈◊〉. Therefore it 〈◊〉 happy I 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, or else farewell all 〈◊〉 and singing. But I would feign know of you whether the cause is to be preferred before the effect or not, 〈◊〉 is better than the effect: the 〈◊〉 cause I am sure you can not deny but that it is above the effect, marry as for 〈◊〉 causes, the effect sometime may excel the cause, now if the cause be better than the effect, than a 〈◊〉 is to be esteemed above a musician: So that 〈◊〉 be the cause of music, (which you 〈◊〉 before to be the cause that I have been a musician) and if the cause be to be 〈◊〉 before the effect, than a rymer is better than a musician. And so, a common rymer is better thou the best singing 〈◊〉 of the pope's holy 〈◊〉. But they would not be well pleased with you, if they knew that by proving me a musician, you make them worse than the simplest 〈◊〉 that is. And if the cause which is rhyming, be not better than the effect, which is music: yet do or say what you 〈◊〉, the cause must needs be before the effect. So that by your proving me to be a musician because of my rhyming: the rymer must needs be before the 〈◊〉. And so one can not be a musician unless he be a rhymer before. But herein I think your argument will not hold, for I am sure there are and have been, many excellent 〈◊〉 that could rhyme never a whit & And many also have been good rhymers, and were but single 〈◊〉 singers, and had no skill at all in music. Thus it is plain that many are 〈◊〉 and no 〈◊〉: and many are musicians and 〈◊〉 rhymers. But by this your proving of me to be a musician, he that is a musician must needs first be a 〈◊〉, because you make rhyming to be the cause of music, so that your argument must needs be false. Wherefore hereby 〈◊〉 doth appear, if you had 〈◊〉 me to rhyme so much in my book (as I am sure I rhymed never 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) 〈◊〉 I 〈◊〉 be 〈◊〉 in music for all that. And now seeing 〈◊〉 you have gone about to prove by my said book, that I am a rymer: I do not think that you have made such a 〈◊〉 lie to commend me withal, whom causeless you go about to discredit. Therefore it appeareth that you charged me with rhyming to your simple Readers, (who you thought would never read my book) thereby to make them think, that I that made the book, had but small learning, because I had skill in rhyming. But to have skill in making of an english verse, maketh not therefore to be unskilful in learning and knowledge. I know there hath been and is at this day, that were and are excellent in making of English verses or metre, and yet notably well learned both in the latin & greek tongues, yea and in divers Sciences. Do you think that they that wrote the Psalms of David into Euglish metre, were therefore unlearned: Nay it is evident that they were well learned, and had knowledge in the tongues, for the conference of the texts and concordance of the words. But seeing (as I think) you much regard not the Psalms in English prose, you less esteem the same in English metre. But though you esteem not English metre, or decent rhyming in English: yet you may perceive (if you be so skilful in 〈◊〉 as you seem) that king David the Prophet of God, made Psalms in 〈◊〉 verse, agreeing in proportion, number and syllables, though not altogether in accent or sound. Now if the prophet of 〈◊〉 king David 〈◊〉 that 〈◊〉 in hebrew verse by the spirit of God: then why may not we Christians, 〈◊〉 good or godly things in 〈◊〉 metre: Yea and translate these 〈◊〉 into english metre that David at the first made and wrote in 〈◊〉 verses. If you 〈◊〉 our writers of English verses, than you seem thereby to discommend them that wrote Greek and Latin verses, and then Homer the Greek 〈◊〉, and Virgil, and 〈◊〉 excellent Poets and 〈◊〉, with joannes Aurelius, 〈◊〉 and other, that wrote learned latin 〈◊〉, are 〈◊〉 beholden to you. For, as you 〈◊〉 make me an English rymer: so you account them as latin rhymers. But perhaps you will say, that they were not rymers but 〈◊〉, for that their verses did not end in rhyme as ours do. This will not serve your turn, for though they did make their verses without meeter: yet divers learned men wrote their latin verses in latin metre. As Arnoldus de villa nova that wrote thus of the 〈◊〉 fire. Primus formetur, ut sensus ei dominetur, Sensibus equato, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 secundo, Tertius excedit sed 〈◊〉 tolleruntia ledtt, Destructor sensus, nescit precedere 〈◊〉. Also Marculinus 〈◊〉 thus, Firmans mutatum, pregnatio spondet hiatum, Quae bene purgantur, concordipace ligantur. An other writeth thus, Est fons illimis cuius latet 〈◊〉 in imis, Carmina Geber. adscripta. Euolat in primis, nisi clausis undique rimis. Therefore if you would have me disdained for rhyming in English: then these learned men are to be misliked for rhyming in latin. But I trust you will not disable me and other for our english rhyming, unless you mean thereby to bring Pope Vrban the 5. in discredit, that did send an Agnus dei unto the Emperor with these rhyming verses following), I may not say that the same contain 〈◊〉 and blasphemy: though they attribute that to the Agnus dei, that only is due to the passion of Christ. And here followeth the verses. Fulgùra desursum depellit, & omne malignum: It is in the popish Primer. Peccatum frangit ut Christi sanguis, & angit: Pregnans servatur, simul & partus liberatur: Dona defert dignis, virtutem destruit ignis: Portatus munde, de fluctibus eruit undae. And now, if it were no discredit to Pope Urban'S 〈◊〉. ning to set forth these verses in latin rhyme: then I hope it will not be a hindrance to my learning to declare them in english meeter. Wherefore I will be so bold to set forth the wonderful virtue of Pope Urban'S Agnus dei, whereby the 〈◊〉 may see, that the Pope's Agnus this can do as much in all points as the blood of Christ, and here followeth the virtue of Pope Vibans Agnus 〈◊〉. It puts away the furious force at need, Of lightning and of every evil beside: As Christ's own blood it breaketh sin with speed: It vexeth fiends, they cannot it abide: The woman great with child it doth preserve, And causeth safe deliverance of the same: It brings good gifts, to such as do 〈◊〉: It doth destroy the power of fiery flame: And such as were the same both clean and fair, If they do chance in sourging waves to fall: His virtue is such, they need not then despair, It pulls them 〈◊〉 and saves their life and all. Saint john Baptist when he said Ecce Agnus 〈◊〉, Behold the lamb of god, did never speak of all these virtues of his Agnus dei. Surely many of you jesuits do never wear the Pope's Agnus this, or else they have no such virtue, as pope Vrban and many of you would make us believe, for if your Agnus this can pull men out of the water, & save them from drowning: then they may pluck men from the 〈◊〉 out of the 〈◊〉 hand, and save them from hanging. So that I muse that Doctor Story, 〈◊〉, Sherwood Ducket, and Campion with other (that had no small devotion to the pope's Agnus this) would be without such a precious jewel at the gallows, that would work such wonders. But it may be they were so weary of being the pope's unfortunate servants: that they had rather be hanged to be his happy Saints. And I trust you willbe no more offended with me for my rhyming in my said 〈◊〉 (where I 〈◊〉 never a whit, them 〈◊〉 joannes a Casa 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉, that was Deane of pope 〈◊〉 Chamber for his book in Italian Rhyme, which is to be 〈◊〉 & abhorred, for he wrote that same most 〈◊〉 in commendation of that 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 sin, which procured God's wrath so much, that therefore he destroyed Zodome & Gomor with 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 from heaven: which vile & detestable book, was printed at Venice by one Troianus Naws. For if one of your Pope's holy and chaste Prelates may commend most detestable and wicked sins in Italian rhyme, then why should we be derided or evil thought of for writing good and virtuous things in English meeter: Therefore (all things before written well considered) honest rhyming and modest meeter is not so discommendable a thing as you would make it: Though to my reproach untruly you went about to prove me a rymer. But by your proving me a rymer I have proved myself none: though in your own two lines you have showed yourself a rymer, for all your words that you reproved me for rhyming, is nothing but rhyme. And whereas you would feign have proved me a Musician because of my rhyming: surely I cannot see for all your rhyming that you have any great skill in Music, for that it seemeth you are unskilful in the ground or causes of Music, in that you count rhyming to be the cause of Music. Music may stand without rhyming, better than 〈◊〉 can stand without Papistry: for one may be a good 〈◊〉 though he can rhyme never a whit, but one cannot be a jesuite unless he be a Papist. If you had said thus, it would have hanged a great deal better together. It seemeth that the Gospel pure, he earnestly doth love, For that the papists with the same, he doth so much reprove. For, the reproving of Papistry with the Gospel is a better cause that I love the Gospel, than my rhyming is a cause that I should be a musician. But now though you have showed so slender a cause that I have been a Musician: I will show you a better cause, that you are scant a true subject. And this it is. You jesuits are no subjects true, it may right well be seen: For that you do obey the Pope, and disobey your Queen. This your refusing to obey the Queen, and to obey her enemy the Pope, is a more likely cause that you are no true subjects: then my rhyming (whereas I rhymed never a whic) was the cause that I have been a musician. If you had not taught me to rhyme by your rhyming, I had not rhymed here at this time: but for that I am desirous to be a Musician, I am now the more willing to rhyme, whereby I hope shortly to be a Musician. For you being a profound and learned jesuite have taught me that rhyming is the cause of Music. Whether you meant to disgrace me for being a rymer or a Musician I know not, but seeing in derision you would prove me to be both: I think you would not have me commended for either. And as you would have me disdained for rhyming which is your cause of Music: so you would have me despised for music which is your effect of rhyming. Yet there is no reason in it, for why should you 〈◊〉 Protestant's more for being Musicians: then we disdain 〈◊〉 for being minstrels. If you were as reasonable as you are preposterous, you would not disdain a man for his Music: but the Musician for his evil manners. Our English musicians are as much beholden to you, as our English versifiers are. But this I will say in the 〈◊〉 of our musicians of England, I am sure there are 〈◊〉 honest musicians in England, then there are true and faithful jesuits to their Prince and Country, either in or out of England. Music was wont to be counted a 〈◊〉 and worthy science: and is it now become so vile, that he that hath knowledge in it should thereby be discredited: There is a saying not so old as true, Scientia non habet inimicum praeter ignorantem. Or thus, Tantum scientiae inimicus est ignorantia. The enemy of science is only ignorance, which showeth that your knowledge in music is not great, because you envy the musician, and would have my book discredited because of my music. I never knew that it should be a reproach to any for having knowledge in music: but many have been discommended for their unskilfulness in music. In disdaining me for being a musician: you discommend thereby all musicians, or that have knowledge therein, or apply themselves to the sludie thereof. But though you go about to discredit my book by jesuitical conjectures that I have been a musician, yet I trust you will not discredit king David's book of Psalms (the Psalter) though he was a musician, for he played excellently well on the Harp, and did sing to the same, which doth argue that he was a musician, and had skill in music. Your Priests have made fools believe that your holy water would drive away spirits out of houses and men: But I am sure that king David's music did ease 1. Kings. 16. king Saul and thereby the evil spirit departed from him. Now if you will have the Pope's Priests to be esteemed and reverenced for their casting of their holy water, which will not drive away Devils, but chase away mice: (as one of your friends hath affirmed) than musicians ought not (by reason) to be had in such derision that are skilful in that famous science of music, whereby the evil spirit departed from king Saul. You would make us the worse because we know music: but your music is the worse because you do know it. For David by our music drove a devil out of a man, but your mystical music filleth thousands full of Devils. It is said that Orpheus had such excellent sweet and pleasant music, that with the melody of his Harp he would make dead stones to dance, and seem to be alive: but your Papistical music, will make the living dead to Godward, yea and to die the second death. And moreover it is feigned by the poets that by the virtue of music proserpina and the hellish furies were brought out of hell into the earth: but you jesuits with your mournful music make the wise people of the earth to be like furies, and do drive them into hell: King David being the Prophet of God is as well to be credited as a jesuite, who doth not contemn but commend, both music and musical instruments, (if he doth so, that doth urge us to sing and to play on the same) for these are his words. Rejoice in God O ye righteous: For praise becometh well the just. Confess it to God with the Harp: sing Psalms unto him with the Vial and with the instrument of ten strings. Sing unto him a new song, make a sweet noise with your musical instruments aloud. Psal. 33. Therefore it seemeth that you know not what music is, that would have it to be a discredit to the party that knoweth it. I never read that jesuitrie should be one of the seven liberal sciences: But I am sure that Music is one of the seven Sciences, yea and one of the four Mathematical Sciences, which are, Arithmetic, Geometry, Astronomy, and Music, In which Sciences and other, it may be, that I am not altogether ignorant, (though you go about to discredit me as without all knowledge and learning.) For as you confess, that as yet you have not learned my estate and calling: so I believe, as yet you have not fully found out my knowledge and learning. And whereas you geste that I was a musician because of my rhyming, In deed I must confess, I am not altogether ignorant in music, But if I were as ignorant in music, as it seemeth you are in the cause of my music: I should then have no more music, then there is truth in your religion. And now to put you out of doubt, I had knowledge in music before I could rhyme. Therefore you might more 〈◊〉 have said. It seemeth that he hath been some rymer in time: Because he can sing, a thing meet for rhyme. Thus though you alleged that my rhyming was the cause that I was a Musician: I assure you that God is the cause that gave me wit and understanding to learn music. And for that you seem to discommend music, in that you disdained me for having knowledge therein: I will something briefly speak in the commendation of Music, whereby all wise men will esteem a man better for having knowledge in music, than a jesuite that hath never so profound knowledge in papistry. Music is such a science of concordance and uniformity, that one may soon understand when the musician doth sing or play wrong. But when the Musician perceiveth by the discords or by the tune or sound, that he is wrong, will he sing or play on still: No, he will begin again: And if his song be false 〈◊〉, he will never cease until he have found the fault, and then he will amend it, whereby he will sing true. Yet you that are jesuits (clean contrary to the musician) will not try your Papistical religion (which is most false and far out of tune) by God's word: as the muisition doth his song, by the right copy or by the science of music: but wilfully against all godly harmony, do proceed still in your error most grievous to God, and quite out of tune to the ear of the Godly gospeler. Therefore I would to God that you would try the truth of your religion by God's word: as the musician will try his song by the science of music. And now to speak in the commendation of music, though you seem to disdame it: The truth is, in musical harmony is such strength & virtue, that men's minds being fatigated & wearied are thereby made that stronger & more apt to study. Also shipmen and mariners with artificers and other that labour 〈◊〉, their singing makes their painful labour seem the more easy, and the time to be shorter. Music expelleth care, it comforteth the sorrowful, and it delighteth men and women so much, that extreme exercise in dancing therewith three or four hours together, will not tire them or make them feel weariness: Whereas one half hour of easier exercise without music, would utterly tire them. Music many times hath warmed men's minds so much, that they have felt no cold, though they stood an hour or two in the frost. When nothing can cause a child to cease crying, a simple song will soon still it, and make it merry, that before did mourn and weep. Yea music is of such force, that birds are catched through the pleasure they have in melodious whistling. The Elephants of India are stayed with the musical sound of instruments. And moreover as Alpharabius doth testify, Alpharabius music hath moved horses in the wars to be courageous, and doth marvelously comfort the Dolphins and the Serens in the sea and other. That great learned man basil, seemeth to affirm that music is a mean (yea and devised by the holy ghost) to fasten the fruit of godly doctrine in us, & these are his words, For whereas the holy ghost perceived that mankind was Basil, mag. in prolog. super Psalm. hardly trained to virtue, and that we be very negligent in things concerning true life in 〈◊〉, by reason of our inclination to worldly pleasures and delectations: what hath he invented? he hath mixed in his form of doctrine, the delectation of music, to the intent that the commodity of the doctrine might secretly steal into us, while our ears be touched with the pleasantness of the melody. You would make that rhyming is the cause of music: but hereby Saint Bafill, it appeareth that music is a cause of the entering of godly doctrine into us. Now if this our earthly music doth work such effect, as was done by king David, and as I have now mentioned: then what would the heavenly harmony of the Celestial spheres work if we might hear it: whereof we are defrauded, partly through 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the 〈◊〉 of our ears for the gross 〈◊〉ter. that 〈◊〉 our hearing, but chief through the great distance cheer of from us or rather both. Yet some learned have been of this judgement that young infants, smiling sweetly in their sleep (as many of them do) at that instant do hear that sweat and 〈◊〉 spherical harmony, which maketh them so to rejoice and laugh. And thus this worthy and commendable Science hath done and doth daily, that which none of the other Sciences can do. And as it being one of the four Mathematical Sciences doth accord and agree with arithmetic in perfection and true proportion of number, so it agreeth with Astronomy in time: yea and perfect musicians may well understand by their singing, what time hath passed in their singing, and how many minutes or hours they have been a singing their songs. And if they have knowledge with all in Astronomy, they may know what sign and degree of the same, is ascending, & in the culm of the 10. house, or full south, and other places, when they have ended their song: So that they know perfectly at whattime they began their song. For as in every artificial hour is contained three score minutes, and in every minute three score seconds, whereby there is in every artificial hour 3. thousand & six hundredth seconds: So that according to the direct ascensions, one degree doth ascend in four minutes whereby it falleth out, that 15. degrees doth so ascend directly in one artificial hour not differing much: even so one semebrefe of that less perfect measure, (which is now the most accustomed time with us of all songs) containeth the just time of a second, whereby 60. sembreefes are a singing in one minute: so that according to this measure, 3600. sembreefs, as a just hour a singing, and so the Astronomical second, and the musical semebreefe, are just both of one time. And thus by this famous science of music we may find out the marvelous motions of the Celestial signs. Mark further how the concords & discords of this earthly Mathematical science of music, doth agree most aptly & wonderfully with the heavenly science of Astronomy, in distance and quality with the aspects of the celestial planets. For as two notes being in one line or 〈◊〉 on one string, (So that the string have but one tune) is a perfect 〈◊〉: in music called an unison, or unius soni of one sound: So the conjunctions especially of good or friendly planets in one sign, is a good and a perfect agreement of the same planets so 〈◊〉. And as two planets being in the third sign one from another & beholding one another, is a good and friendly aspect called a Sextile aspect: So two notes distant in the third place or string, one from another, is a good concord, and is called a third. And as two planets being in the fourth sign one from another, & aspecting each other, is a quartile and an evil aspect: So, two notes distant in the fourth place one from another, is a discord called a fourth. And as two planets being in the fift sign one from another and beholding one another, is the best aspect of all other called a trine aspect: So, two notes distant in the fift place one from another, is the best concord of all other, called a fift. And as two planets being in the seventh sign one from another, aspecting one another, is the worst aspect of all other, called an opposite aspect: Even so two notes distant in the seventh place one from another, is a marvelous discord in music called a seventh. Here you may see how wonderfully our earthly music, being one of the four Mathematical sciences, doth agree with heavenvly astronomy, being also one of the four mathematical sciences. So that if you had been as profoundly seen in this worthy science of music, as you are in your devilish doctrine of papistry, you would have sought some other way or mean to discredit me, than by naming me a musician, or by my having knowledge in such a famous science. Therefore I believe I shall win more credit by your calling me a musician, than you will get honesty by being 〈◊〉 jesuite. But it may be that your drift was to dishonest me, by making your reader believe, that I was a musician and got my living by music, as though they that live by music must needs be unhonest, or whatsoever they writ is not worth the reading. I 〈◊〉 you think better of your romish 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 of our English 〈◊〉. But if jesuits may esteem 〈◊〉 musicians: surely a Christian may think well of English musicians. And if your musicians in Rome are to be commended, though they live by their 〈◊〉: then I cannot fee why our English 〈◊〉 should be disdained that live honestly by the same. But to the intent you shall have 〈◊〉 occasion to disdain or disable me for my knowledge in Music, whereas I told you before in certifiing you of my estate and calling, that I never had any spiritual 〈◊〉, (though you might suppose otherwise): now likewise to put you out of doubt, (though I have some simple knowledge in Music) I profess not music, neither do I get any living or any money by Music. (Notwithstanding better and learneder, than I have done.) The knowledge of Sciences was wont to make 〈◊〉 to be esteemed: and shall then the excellent Science of Music make me be disdained: But suppose that Music were not one of the four Mathematical Sciences and so excellent as it is: should my knowledge therein work my discredit 〈◊〉 my book therefore be less counted of or esteemed: Saint Luke is though to have had skill in painting which is not comparable to the Science of Music: should therefore the gospel of Christ or that acts of the apostles which he wrote, be disdained or discommended, because a painter or one that had skill in painting wrote it: Shall the Gospel of Christ be rejected which S. Matthew wrote: because he was a tolgetherer: which is not so deep a mystery as Music. Shall Paul's epistles be discredited, because he being a tentmaker did write them? which is not so learned a science as Music. Shall S. Peter's epistles be thought not worth the reading, because they were made by a 〈◊〉: which is not so hard to learn as music. Now seeing neither saint Matthew by his tolgethering, neither S. Luke by his painting, nor S. Peter by his fishing, nor yet S. Paul by his tentmaking, are the less esteemed, nor their 〈◊〉 less embraced: then why should my knowledge in the famous science of Music (which you rather surmised then certainly knew) cause me either to be disdained, or my book diseredited: And seeing king David and the prophet of God, was not the less honoured for his knowledge in music and his playing on the harp, neither his book which he wrote of the psalms, is therefore less liked: methinks than you should not go about to make me to be disdained, or my book to be despised by surmising me to be a musician, or because I have skill in music. Therefore when you mean to discommend any hereafter, reprove rather his wickedness then his writing, his lewdness than his learning, and his manners then his music: unless he bestow his learning in lying, and his writing in wresting of the truth, as you jesuits do. The 40. part. THen after you come to a peece-of my preface, and have 40. part. one snatch, at it, reciting my words not confuting the phrase, as though you would have your reader to disdain my inditing, as you would have had them mystic me for music, and these are your words. To the Disc. pa. 183. great comfort and joy (as he hopeth) of her highness being framed by him not troublingly by lovingly unto her subjects. And so you leave that matter and go no further. As before you geste a wrong cause of my being a musician: so I perceive you are ignorant of that cause of my writing the same in the order. And though it appear before the you knew my thought and what I would have said: yet here it is manifest, that you know not what I meant in writing of this. But that you may understand that my words in this place are not so impertinent, as you would have them import, I will show you the foundation wherefore I did frame them. The truth is, about ten years before I gave her majesty this my book which you so much discommend, I with some pains and travel devised a suit, for the great profit and commodity especially for the poor and needy of this my native country of England, in most necessary places throughout the whole realm, being a marvelous profit to thousands and hurt to none, in the forefront whereof were these brief words written. In dei gloriam: in Angliae Laudem: In tuam O princeps utilitatem Maximamque perpetuam famam: Commoditas multis, incommodum nullis. Wherein I a Christian wished more good to this my country then ever any jesuite did perform I am sure. And as that suit was only to be granted by her grace, for the profit of her subjects: so this my book that I gave her majesty of late, was to be performed of her subjects to the comfort and joy of her grace. For I believe if her stubborn and disobedient subjects that obey and favour the pope, would become obedient and obey her grace, as my chief drift is in my said book, I think it would be no small comfort and joy to her highness. And for that (the premises considered) it may more manifestly appear that these my words (which you seem to disdain) are not so far out of frame, nor so unaptly placed as you would have your reader to think: I will here write the words in such order as I wrote them to her Majesty, (and not out of order as you have done) which being advisedly read of the indifferent reader (conferring the same with my former words) they may think that you have not dealt very indifferently with me. And these are my words in the beginning of my Epistle. As heretofore (my most gracious sovereign) I troubled your highness (not without some travel to myself) in a thing that was necessary, reasonable, and commodious to many and hurt to none: Even so I have now (not troublingly but lovingly) framed an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to such of your subjects, as fear not God as they ought, regard not his word as they should, nor obey your highness as they are bound, naming them English enemies (as I may very well) for english friends I am sure they are not: which persuasion is necessary, reasonable, and very profitable for them & not hurtful to any. And as that which before I made to your Majesty, was by your grace only to be authorized, for the great relief and succour of your subjects: So this that I have now written to your subjects, is to be allowed and practised by them, to the great comfort and joy (I hope) of your highness. And though I have pend it for them to perform: yet I have dedicated it to your grace to peruse. etc. Hereby I trust the indifferent reader will judge (the circumstance of the matter considered) that my said words are not so much awry, as you would feign make your reader believe. And as hereby you go about causeless to discommend me for placing of my words: so you go about to blear your reader's eyes fraudulently, with displacing of my words, as the indifferent reader may perceive, for these words, To the great comfort and joy (I hope) of your highness, you have placed them before these words, not troublingly but lovingly unto such of your subjects, which were behind them eight or nine lines, besides you have of purpose left out the rest of my words between them, and all to mar the sense of my saying, & to make my matter seem without method. If you were as honest as you would seem by your name, you would not thus dishonestly have joined those my sentences so nigh together, that I did place so far a sunder: and to leave out such words as thereby the sense should be hindered or hid to discredit me withal. You thought belike that either your reader would never read my book, or that I should never read this your book, or that I would not or could not, defend my doings against your book. I would be loath you should take me with racking your writing or displacing your words, as I have done you, no, you shall not find, in all this my book, that I have left out any of your words of your sentences the I have written, or made any of your sentences to leap so far out of their places, no, I have written them truly as I found them, whereby the in different reader may spy what difference there is between a true Christian and a false jesuite. The 41. part. THen after this these are your words that follow: 41. part. This man's drift is (as he saith) to prove all papists Discou. page. 183. to be English enemies, and extreme enemies to England: which in effect he proveth thus: papists do love the Pope's law, the Pope he loveth not God Almighty's law: the Queen's Majesty she loveth God Almighty's law, and her law is all one with his: how then can the papists love their Queen and country? If you meant as truly as you mean falsely, you would have set down my words as they are in my book: as I have written your words plainly as I found them in your book: But because you seek my discredit you counterfeit my words, In the beginning of with your counterfeit words, you affirm that I say my drift is to prove all papists to be English enemies and extreme enemies to England. If I have said so, why do you not show me where and in what place I. said so? as well as I told you where you said a 〈◊〉 from dishonesty. If I have not said so, then why do you bely me? Methinks it should not stand with your holy profession, to charge me with an untruth. Mark the title and beginning of my book, and you shall see whether you have dealt plainly and truly with me or no. For these are my very words. A persuasion from papistry, written chief to the obstinate determined and disobedient English papists, who are herein named and proved English enemies and extreme enemies to England, etc. Here may you see your own corrupting of my words and meaning, my drift is to prove, obstinate determined and disobedient papists English enemies, and extreme enemies to England, which in my said book, I have proved already, And not all papists: for I know there are simple seduced english papists, the you the are deep & determined papists, shall never I hope allure from the subjection of their Prince to the obediency of the Pope. In your said counterfeit words floutingly and mockingly you affirm, (to allure your Reader to mislike me) that I should say thus, The Pope he loveth not God almighty's law: The Queen's Majesty she loveth God almighty's law, etc. With which word (God almighty) you deride me, as though I were a childish writer, or that I wrote some trifle or toy to please babes withal. To discredit my writing, you have put in (God Almighty) more than I wrote, whereby you have taken the holy name of God in vain. But if I had upon good occasion written it, you would rather have plucked it out of my writing, thereby to discredit me. Wherefore because you are such a subtle shiftter and foyster in of words, I will here write mine own words that they may 〈◊〉 their own tale: whereby the indifferent Reader shall see whether a jesuite hath dealt honestly with a Christian or not. And these are my very words that follow, which cunningly you have counterfeited. It is well known that the Pope is enemy to our queen, Persuasion from papistry Pag. 4. his laws are repugnant to her laws, and his religion is contrary to her religion (which is the Gospel of God's word) Now if any that is borne within England, doth earnestly love the Pope, than they can not faithfully love the Queen, if any of them obey the Pope's laws and decrees, they must needs disobey the Queen's laws and orders: and if they embrace and love the Pope's religion, than they must needs forsake and despise God's word the Queen's religion. Now, for you that are 〈◊〉, than you are rather the Pope's loving servants, than the Queen's true subjects. And if you be not true and loving subjects to our Queen, who under God is the chief staff and stay of the peaceable and prosperous state of England: than you cannot be friends but enemies to England, and thus I trow I have proved you English enemies. These are my very words concerning the same, which you have racked and counterfeited contrary to my writing, whereby the indifferent reader may easily judge, whether your words are my words in effect, and whether your writing conclude as mine doth, or not. In deed as you wrote it, it is a very simple and childish argument, much like Peter Crabs arguments for proving of the Pope's power. True meaning would that you should write my arguments as they be, and then to confute them if you can, but because you cannot, you curtal and piece them at your pleasure, otherwise you confute them not. And when you have brought them into such a pickle, them you commit them to your Reader to scan, who thinking you to deal plainly and truly, doth therefore despise me, yea and perhaps contemn my book before he read it or hear it. But therefore I have written mine own words as they be, whereby the Reader may perceive that though you are a jesuite in name, yet you are more like a judas in your dealing. It is an easy kind of confuting, to write nothing but to 〈◊〉 a man's words. If I should have dealt so with you, you might justly have derided me, and called me a liar without learning, as I may call you a learned falsifier & a shameless jesuite. The 42. part. AFter this you falsify my words again, and coin 42. part. my writing with your own counterfeit stamp, much like one that when he hath once stolen, careth not then how often he playeth the thief. Surely if you meant honestly you would write my words as they be, and confute them after (if you can) as I have done yours. It appeareth you are very shameless, and either regard not your credit, or else you think, whatsoever a jesuit doth, be ought not to be blamed, nor that any thing can work his discredit. Do you think that your Readers are so childish and so simple to think that your rehearsing of my words falsely, and curtalling them as it pleaseth you without any other argument or proof, is a sufficient confuting of them? I think not. I never heard of any that used this kind of confuting but you, and because you are the first inventor thereof, I believe you are the last that will use the same. If to write nothing, but only to repeat falsely and untruly men's words (as you do and have done) be a sufficient confuting: then we need no great learning to the confuting of any. And now let us hear your cunning confutation with nothing but with mine own wrested words, and thus they are as followeth. Again, the 〈◊〉 cry upon their Queen Marie, Discovery. Pag. 183. and we cry upon our Queen Elizabeth: And is not Queen Elizabeth I pray you as well a king's daughter as Queen Mary? As well a king's sister as Queen Mary? as lawful Queen of England (I will not say more) as Queen Mary? Why then how can Papists be otherwise but English enemies, and extreme enemies to England? These and the like arguments in sense though not altogether in the same words, he dilateth according to his kind of eloquence, throughout all the first part of his book, though he make no parts at all. Where as you say it is my eloquence, I utterly refuse it, it is your eloquence and none of mine. Seeing the words are yours and not mine: (as you have confessed) then the eloquence shall be yours and not mine. You have written a great sort of fine words and that eloquently in this your discovery: and were it reason that I should have the eloquence of them all from you? You are a very kind and liberal man, that can be content to take such pain in writing, & then to let me have all the eloquence that is due to the same. You have hacked, racked, 〈◊〉 and changed my words as you list, & have uneloquented them, or taken the eloquence from them that they had: and now you discommend me for my eloquence. You are like unto him that spitefully cut a man's tongue out of his head, and then dispraised him, because he could not speak. Seeing you would veedes dispraise my eloquence, it had been reason that you should have recited mine own words as I wrote them: And then you might jawfully have discommended them for lack of eloquence. Therefore if the words lack eloquence than you lack eloquence, (as it seemeth) because you wrote them not eloquently, considering they are your words, and not mine, For you have left out a great sort of mine and foisted in (out of all order) many of your own. And though I a Christian cannot be so eloquent as you that are a jesuite, I must be content with S. Paul, who though he were not very eloquent, by S. Hieroms saying: yet the most eloquent Philosopher that ever was did never Num. 22. so much as he, of whom S. Hierom writeth thus: Paulus Hierom, in Psal. 82. qui soelecismos facit in loquendo, Christi crucem portat, etc. Paul that is not able to utter his mind in congrue speech, beareth the cross of Christ, and taketh all men prisoners, as if it were in triumph: from the Ocean unto the red Sea, he subdued the whole world. & S. Paul himself saith, though 〈◊〉. Cor. 11. I be rude in speaking, I am not so in knowledge. here, though Saint Paul lacked eloqence, yet he lacked not the favour of God. Therefore I had rather lack eloquence with S. Paul one of Christ's Apostles: then to be eloquent with you though you are one of the Popes jesuits. In your said words which you have so falsified you count them my arguments in sense though not altogether in words: but I marvel who gave you commission to alter my words, and to put in other words for them, and to give my words the sense of your forged words. If I should leave out your words, and put in steed thereof what I think good of mine own, and to displace your words at my pleasure, as you have done mine, & then to say, that it is the same in sense though not altogether in the same words: you might well say then that I 〈◊〉 not done according to the profession 〈◊〉 a Christian, though therein you have done according to the profession of a jesuite. Though you think the Pope hath authority to alter the scriptures, and to give them their sense as he thinketh good: yet I hope that you have no authority to alter and change my words, and to give them their sense. But belike as you think the Pope may alter the Scriptures as he list and give them what sense it pleaseth him: so you being his jesuite may likewise alter my words and give them what sense you think good. Before, when you dealt with the title of my book (which is A persuasion from Papistry) there you altered not my words, but wrote them as I wrote them, because you thought that persuasion being mine own word, would disgrace or discredit me: But now, you perceiving that if you should write mine own words as they be, they would not then serve your turn. Wherefore you defaced and displaced my words, and foisted in your own to my reproach, and to your own credit (as you thought.) But as coggers and foysters of false Dyse thrive but sorrily by their trade: so you by the chopping and changing of my words and foisting in your own, will gain but little. And as they for their cogging and foisting (when it is known) are so despised, that the honest do shun them: so you, when this your subtle shifting is spied (for all you are a jesuite) will procure your own shame. Your Reader having any good consideration, will not think but that my words hang better together than you wrote them. But that your dishonest dealing may the better appear, and that the indifferent and wise Reader may judge whether ' I wrote so fond as you have affirmed, I will here both write my very words that you so shamefully altered, and also the occasion and the circumstance thereof. For in this point I went about, not only to prove her 〈◊〉 great mercy and jenitie to the obstinate Papists her disobedient subjects: But also, (though some of the stubborn sort did so little consider her power, that they would say, that she had no law to punish or execute them for the same) that she had as great power and authority to make laws, and to punish them as Queen Mary had. But all this you left out, besides the marring of my sentences and arguments, that the reader might think, that it had neither good method nor matter. And now here followeth my words. If he that counterfeateth the Queen's majesties seal Persuasion from papistry Pag. 7. for some private profit (breaking thereby but one part of her laws) is a Traitor and is therefore put to death: Then are not you that are obstinate and disobedient Papists Traitors? And deserve death, that hate your prince without any cause? and that withstand and disobey all her godly laws and proceed? In the loving and obeying of whom, and the keeping and observing of whose laws and orders, her Grace's safety, the preservation of her person, the conservation of the common wealth, and the prosperous state of this Realm doth chiefly depend? If hereby you will not willingly see what you are, I fear against your wills you will feel hereafter what you are. Open your eyes therefore and see what a merciful Queen you have, that ever since she began to reign hath rather mercifully without law sought to win you: then cruelly by law to enforce or wound you. Think not because she suffereth you, that therefore she cannot punish nor execute you, which if some of you stick not to say openly: many of you (I believe) think the same privily. Think not because she hath made no law for you, that therefore she can make no law for you: for the Queen's majesty hath as great power to punish the Idolatrous Papists in her Realm, as king josia had to burn the Priests of Baal in his Realm. King Asa and his people made a covenant and swore not only to seek the Lord, to cleave unto him, and to hearken un-his voice, but also, that whosoever did not so, should be slain, whether he were small or great, man or woman: which covenant he performed and broke not, And is not our Princess queen of England, aswell as Asa was king of juda? and hath not she as great power in her kingdom as he had in his? And if GOD was well pleased with king Asa for making and performing of that covenant (as he was in deed): would he then be angry think you, with Queen Elizabeth if she made the like and performed it? I think not. But our merciful Queen (though she hath set forth the true 〈◊〉 of God, as speedily, as earnestly, and as zealously as either king Asa or any other ruler, to be followed and observed throughout her whole realm) hath not made any such covenant or law to slay or kill them that do not follow and obey the same. But consider this well, if the Pope (not appointed by God's law to reign and rule as he hath done) may murder and kill (as many of you think he may) the professors and followers of God's word (being not his subjects) for disobeyiug his law devised and invented by man on earth, and procured by the Devil: Then may not we think, that our Queen appointed by God and allowed by his word to reign over us, may lawfully kill and put to death the Idolatrous Papists her subjects, for wilfully disobeying and withstanding the law of God that came from heaven, being long since taught by the Prophets, by jesus Christ the son of God and by his Apostles, moved and procured thereto by God the holy Ghost? Therefore I beseech you weigh the mild nature of our gracious Queen (the mother of mercy) that doth not use the justice she may: and mark your holy father the Pope (the captain of cruelty) that useth the iniusticie he ought not. I pray you, is not our Elizabeth Queen of England These are my very words 〈◊〉 be so altered and changed. as well as Queen Mary was? Whatpower, what jurisdiction, what authority, what superiority, what excellency, and what else had Queen Mary that this our Queen Elizabeth hath not? Queen Mary was king Henry the eights daughter, so is our Queen Elizabeth: Queen Mary was King Edward's sister, so is Queen Elizabeth: Queen Mary succeeded her brother King Edward, so did Queen Elizabeth succeed her sister Queen Mary: Queen Mary was lawful Queen of England, Queen Elizabeth is as lawful Queen of England (I will not say more:) Queen Mary put down God's word planted by her brother, and set up Papistry and Idolatry, and obeyed the Pope, Queen Elizabeth put down papistry and Idolatry planted by her sister, and obeyed GOD: Queen Mary used her harmelesle and obedient subjects cruelly and put them to death that professed gods word, Queen Elizabeth useth her wicked and disobedient subjects mercifully, and suffereth them to live, that profess and stiffly defend papistry and idolatry the doctrine of the Devil. These comparisons duly considered, your Queen Mary did not much excel our Queen Elizabeth (unless in cruelty and burning her harmless subjects). Now if Queen Mary might put to death her humble and harmless subjects for professing of God's word: Then I cannot see but that our Queen Elizabeth, may as well execute her stubborn and disobedient subjects (which she as yet never did) that withstand God's word, and will needs follow papistry and idolatry. And further, if Queen Mary had a law to burn the servants of God, that were obedient to her concerning their worldly duty, and never meant her harm: Then why may not our Queen Elizabeth make a Law to execute the pope's servants (that are bound to be her loving subjects) which are disobedient unto her, and that seek, procure, desire and wish her death and destruction? Therefore be thankful to God that hath given you and us such a merciful prince to reign over us, and love and obey her, that giveth you for justice mercy, and for extremity lenity. And now as her grace doth refrain from that she may do: so provoke not her 〈◊〉 to that she can do. And as I said, think not that her grace can not use the sword against you, because she hath not used it: for if you think so, you do not only deceive yourselves, but also do much abuse her Majesty, in that you seem thereby to make her a Prince without power: whereby you are unworthy of the great mercy she showeth unto you. What servant is so foolish to think (much more to say) that because his master doth not beat him for his fault, therefore he can not beat him? Because the merciful father doth not beat his son for his offence, that maketh not that he can not beat him for the same. Shall her clemency and mercy make you think in her disability? Therefore if any of you think so (as I believe some of you have said so, you are not worthy of such a merciful mistress that useth you so. Thus far have I written to this end in my said book, whereby it appeareth most manifestly, that my drift was altogether to she we forth her majesties great lenity and mercy: And that she hath as great power and authority as Q. Marie had, to make laws, and to use the sword with severity & justice as well as she: as appeareth by the whole circumstance of the matter both before and after: which you of purpose did not only leave out, but also did so chop and change my words to discredit me withal: that they had neither good sentence nor sense. And this is the very cause and ground why I wrote the said words that you 〈◊〉 unhonestly altered. And though you mislike my eloquence, yet I hope the indifferent reader will not think that these my arguments are so fond and senseless, and so disorderly couched, as you would have made them believe by your wrested and altered words. If they mark but your words that you wrote in stead of mine, and confer my comparison between Queen Marie and her Majesty, with your words: they may soon see your malicious meaning. For where you have written, The papists cry upon their Queen Marie and we cry upon our Queen Elizabeth, I have no such words at all. And moreover, within six of your lines after, you have fathered these words upon me, Why then, how can papists be otherwise but English enemies and extreme enemies to England? If I have any such sentence or words I will yield unto you and be one of the pope's jesuits, which to be I would be loath. You might have thought me to be a very dolt, if I should go about to prove papists to be english enemies, because the Queen's majesty was a king's daughter, and a king's sister. You yourself are so cunning in finding out of such mystical causes, that I am not able to compare with you therein: for first you made that M. Nicols going from Wales to England, and from thence to Flaunders, and so to Rome, & from Rome to the pulpit in the Tower of London, was the cause that he was borne at Combridge in Wales. Then after you would seem to prove that I was a musician because I was a rhymer, and now thirdly (because you would have me to be a citer of your causes) you would make your reader believe that I prove that papists must needs be extreme enemies to england, because the Queen's Majesty was king Henry's daughter and king Edward's sister. But truly, you are tried before to be so cunning and expert in finding out of the causes of things, that this deep profound cause the is alleged for the proving of papists to be extreme enemies to england, is of your own invention: for they know that my wit is to weak and my learning to light, to find out such a mystical cause. It had been enough for Peter 〈◊〉 to have 〈◊〉 this argument (the prover of the pope's power) that said, because Peter paid the tribute money for Christ & Concil. 〈◊〉. 1 page. 10. himself, therefore the pope hath authority over the whole Church of God. And because Christ said to Peter, follow thou me, and again launch forth in the deep, and because Peter drew his sword and cut off Malcas ear, therefore the pope hath authority of the whole Church of God. This had been a fit argument for him then for me. Also this argument had been more meet for pope Innocent, than for me, which would prove that the Moon being inferior De Maior. 〈◊〉 obedien. unam Sanct am. in Sexto. to the Sun, therefore the Emperor was inferior to the Pope: And that the Emperoute is a thousand fold inferior to him, because God hath made two lights in heaven. (Which is the Sun and the Moon). These & such like arguments are more meet for Popes than Protestants. And now for that you jesuits are sworn to the pope, Therefore this argument, (that papists are English enemies and extreme enemies to England, because Queen Elizabeth is as well a king's daughter and a king's sister as Q. Marie:) is a more 〈◊〉 argument for a jesuite then for a 〈◊〉. If the indifferent reader consider mine own words before written, he can spy no such thing as you charge me withal, But may 〈◊〉 perceive, that I wrote the same only to prove that that Queen's majesty hath as great power to use the sword, and to make laws against her obstinate and disobedient subjects, as Queen Mary had. And that it is as lawful for her grace to punish and execute her obstinate & disobedient subjects: as for Queen Marie to punish and execute her loving and harmless subjects (the professors of the Gospel) that obey her with due obedience. Therefore it is no great matter for you to prove that I am neither eloquent nor learned, if you may chop & change my words, & foist in your own at your pleasure as you have done. Tully was an eloquent writer, yet if I should chop and change his works & writings, putting in & leaving out what I list in the same, I could make him seem quickly to have but small eloquence. Plato and Aristotle were learned Philosophers: yet I could make them seem unlearned, if I should use their books as I thought good. Solomon was the wisest man that ever was (except Christ) whose words if I should back and chop, thrust in and pull out what I list, (as you have done) I could make him see me to be no very wise writer. And as it is no great matter for you to say and prove, that a man can not go when before you have cut off his legs: So it is a very easy thing for you to make your reader 〈◊〉 that I have neither eloquence, learning, nor wit, when you have curtailed my writing, and have 〈◊〉 out and foisted in what it pleaseth you. We must think this honest dealing, because a Jusuite hath done it, but if a Christian had done so, you would have called it impudency the mother of desperation. But if mine own words would have proved me so uneloquent as you would make me, and that the same had been so without sense as you would fain have had them: I am out of doubt that then you would have written mine own words as they were. But for that you thought they were too true to serve your turn: Therefore (to discredit me) you displace and deface mine, and trust in your own as though they were mine. But though mine eloquence be small, yet I trust the indifferent reader (when he hath thoroughly viewed my words, and likewise weighed yours) will as well judge that my matter hath some method and my sentences some sense, as you by corrupting them would have made them both without method and sense. If the first part of my book (as you say) be nothing but such arguments as you before have written for mine: the reader had a good occasion rather to rend the whole book than to read the rest: But they that shall think good to read the rest of the first part of my said book, what the arguments are, I will leave it to their consideration, trusting that the matter thereof is more meet to be market then to be mocked. The 42. part. WHere as you say I have made no first part of 43. part. my said book at all, yet there are such distinctions of every matter as I thought sufficient. But if you had been nigh me (if you had had a name as you have not) I would have come to you that you might have taught me how to have parted my book. But now because you are nameless, it may beseem my book as well to be without parts as you to be without a name. And if it be lawful for you to make a book without putting your name unto it: than it is as lawful for me to make a book without putting your parts unto it. Perhaps you would have had me divide my book into chapters, I am sorry I did not, if you therefore would have liked it the better. Yet for all the Bible is in chapters, you have not the greater devotion unto it, but though the Bible is now divided into parts and chapters: it is hard for you to prove that the books of the same were at the first writing in chapters as they be now. For Christ when he alleged any text out of Moses or the Prophets: yet he never mentioned any part or chapter where it was, neither did S. Paul nor any other of the Apostles. Notwithstanding when I am thoroughly persuaded that the books in the Bible, when they were first written, were divided in such parts and chapters as they be now: 〈◊〉 (to pleasure you withal) I will divide my said book into such chapters and parts. But until then, I 〈◊〉 desire you to be content with my distinctions. And now for that I did not part my said book as I should have done, (wherein I was foully overseen) therefore I have divided this book into parts to please you 〈◊〉. The 44. part. THen you go further with me and do say as followeth, 44. part. In the second part, he wandereth by certain controversies, but as without all wit and learning like an English doctor, citing all his matter out of lewels defence of Apology, Fox's martyrologue, and Cowpers Epitome of the Chronicle: so without all 〈◊〉 or limitation of lying. It is not for a Christian I perceive, to compare in wit and learning with a Jesutte. You have so much that I must needs have the less, but for that small portion of wit and learning that I have, I thank my heavenly father for it. What I have therein, I have received: And he that gave Solomon his wisdom, is able to 〈◊〉 mine. I rejoice that I know Christ, for that is wit and learning enough for me. And though you may excel me in wit and learning: yet the more you corrupt men's writings and 〈◊〉 their words, the less will your wit and learning be esteemed, especially with the godly and wise. All is 〈◊〉 wit or wisdom that you call so: and all 〈◊〉 not foolishness that you account foolishness, your earthly wisdom is heavenly folly. And Saint Paul saith the wisdom 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉. 3. of this world is foolishness with God. Then contrary I may say, that many take God's wisdom to be mere foolishness. (I pray God that you be not one of them) And therefore though you say that I wander in the second part of my said book without all wit and learning: I wandered so as it pleased God to direct me. For though my learning (as I must needs confess) is but small, yet my prompcer in the making of that book, had learning enough for us both. For God (I am most sure) was my director, and the holy ghost was my instructor. For if the holy ghost will instrucc the godly in their speech that are witnesses of the Gospel: then I am sure he will instruct and guide their pens that take his cause in hand, and do write against his enemies in the defence of his word. And if a Matth. 10. sparrow light not on the ground without God's providence: then I am most certain that I wrote that my book (which is a greater matter than a sparrows lighting on the the ground) not without the providence and help of God. And if my learning be small, or if I be without wit or learning, than it is the more shame for you to profess and maintain such a religion as an unlearned man is able to disprove. Which I am sure I have done through the help of God, by the scriptures, Ancient doctors and natural reason in my said book, as the godly and indifferent reader may easily judge. Though you discommend and discredit it is as much as you may. But I am most sure (which before God I speak unfeignedly) the profoundest papist and the learnedest Jesuit of you all, shall never be able to confute or convince it: unless you confute it with burning of it, or killing of me. Which are your chiefest arguments to confute withal. If you had as much wisdom as you pretend to have learning, you could not have been taken tardy and in such trips as I have taken you. Therefore brag not toomuch of your wit and learning, for the weak you see many times do confound the learned and witty. If the cause you wade in were as true as it is false, you should with less learning than I think you have: get a great deal more credit by writing than you do. But if you had ten times more learning than you have, and my wit and learning were less than it is: (having the truth on my side) I would not fear to confound you. For seeing a brute beast and an Ass did reprove the prophet Num: 22. of God: Then I (a member of Christ) doubt not but to confute one of the Popes Jesuits. The 45. part. IT pleaseth you in derision to liken me to an English Doctor, well, I had rather be an English Doctor 45. part. then a latin doulte, an English protestant than a latin papist, and an English Christian than a latin jesuite. And I had a great deal rather go to heaven to know the Gospel in English, then go to hell to know the pope's law in latin. Is learning any thing else but, intellectio & come moratio praelectorum seu auditorum? What was the deep learning of Plato, Socrates, and Aristotle, and of all the other heathen Philosophers without knowledge of Christ: they had been better to have been unlearned cobblers, & to have known Christ's Gospel in their mother tongue without any other learning: then to have been so profoundly learned without Christ as they were. Unless one be profoundly learned you make no account of him: but how so ever you count learning, I am sure that godly knowledge, not curious cunning, and the truth not the tongue, will guide us to heaven. Yet if you go to learning, there are a great sort of wise and learned doctors in this realm that are able to teach and turn your romish doctors, especially in true knowledge and learning: but be like you think our English doctors are unlearned, else you would not compare me that am without all wit and learning to an English doctor. They are very much beholden to you, for hereby you go about, to make them either no Englishmen: or else to be without all wit and learning. But as it is too much for you to prove, so I am sure it will be hard for you to prove them no Englishmen. For though you can be content to forsake your Prince and your Country for the pope, and so of a true Englishman, to become a false Romaniste: yet they I am sure will stick to their Prince and continue in their Country, detesting the Pope and his practices. But though you turn from your prince and country, yet you can not turn yourself from being an English man, for though you may change your conditions, yet your native country can not be changed. Therefore every doctor that is borne in England must needs be an English doctor: though he be never so learned. So that contrary to your former tale, you affirm me unwares to be both wise and well learned, as our Doctors of England are: or else our Doctors of England, or English Doctors to be without all wit and learning as I am. But to suffer a small inconvenience by avoiding a greater mischief, you were best to allow me some wit and learning: lest by your doom, all our Doctors in England have neither wit nor learning. Therefore now it standeth at your courtesy, whether you will be a liar to make them all learned: or to tell truth and make them all fools. Truly you being a jesuite write very unadvisedly and preposterously, for you call me a Doctor and yet you say I am unlearned, that is, indoctus. We Christians do use to have men docti, learned, before we make them Doctores, that is teachers: but you jesuits can make men Doctores, teachers, before they be docti, or learned. Belike you had this power of Pope john the 13. For as he made Boys Bishops for money and Deacons in a stable before they had wit: so you have made me a Doctor before I have learning. But though you have made me a doctor without learning, yet upon your bare word I dare not adventure to be a Doctor or teacher before I be learned: So that as one that would feign learn, I will content myself with the name of a simple scholar, giving my title of a Doctor to you that are so profoundly learned. Yet for all your great wit and deep learning, if you have all the wisdom & learning of the world without the Gospel of Christ, you have nothing: and if we have none other learning but the Gospel, we have learning enough. For if the best learning the Prophets of God had was, thus saith the Lord: than what better learning can we Christians have, than thus saith Christ. Therefore though you jesuits do brag and boast of your great knowledge and learning, yet we Christians can rejoice in nothing, but in Christ and in the knowledge of his Gospel: well assured that the small learning of a Christian, shall be able to convince the great and profound learning of a jesuite. For if simple fisher men unlearned were able to confound the beepe Doctors and the profound learned jews by the Gospel: then I (though I have but small learning) make no great account to confute you jesuits with the same Gospel of Christ, for all your profound wit, knowledge, and learning. These people are the most blessed that have the greatest faith, not the most learning: Wherefore if I hear and follow God's word, I care not though you disdain me for want of learning, for my want of learning, cannot be so great a reproach to me before men: as your want of that true knowledge of the Gospel & perfect faith in Christ, is before God. Therefore you have not so great a cause to discommend or deride me for want of wit and learning: as I have cause to lament you for want of true knowledge in that Gospel and perfect faith in Christ. God accepteth faith more than learning, though you regard learning more than faith. Christ marveled at the Centurion's faith, not at his learning (whose servant he healed) & said to him go thy way, & as thou believest so be it unto Math. 8 thee. he said not, according to thy learning so be it unto thee. Christ also said to the woman that was healed when she touched his garment, daughter thy faith hath Mark. 5. made the whole, he did not say thy learning hath made thee whole. Christ rebuked his Apostles and other divers times, saying, O ye of little faith, but he never disdained nor Math. 6. discommended them for lack of learning, neither said he to them, O ye of little learning. But if Christ's Disciples or they that Mark. 3. belonged to him, did think he was mad: than it is no great marvel though you that know me not, & hate my religion, do say that I am without all wit and learning. And though I am without all wit and learning, I comfort myself with the saying of David, which is: The law of God is perfect, converting the soul, the testimony of God is sure, and giveth wisdom unto the simple. Psalm. 19 And as you deride and disconunend me for want of wit and learning: so in the beginning of your said discovery where you discommend M. Nicols for writing of hebrew and Greek in 〈◊〉 latin Epistle to that worthy good & zealous 〈◊〉 Sir Owen Hopton, you seem to disable the said knights knowledge in the latin tongue, in saying that he was overmuch troubled with the latin before. Whatsoever his knowledge is in the Latin tongue I know not: but his Christian faith exceedeth your Iesuitic all learning. For as the Centurion (being captain of an hundred soldiers before Math. 8. mentioned) and Cornelius the Captain to whom S. Acts. 10. Peter was sent, were more accepted of God for their faith (though they were not deeply learned) them the proud, learned Scribes, Pharisees, and high Priests: So this worthy & zealous knight sir Owen Hopton, being the Queen's majesties Lieutenant, and chief captain of the Tower, and of all her majesties servants and soldiers there (though he be not so deeply learned as you) yet for his zealous mind, his earnest love to God's word, and for his perfect faith in Christ: is no doubt therefore more accepted of God, than you that cast of God's word and cleave to your own wit and learning. And for that you say that he was overmuch troubled with latin, it is like you thought he had but small knowledge in hebrew and Greek. But for his wanting of those two tongues, in my judgement he is not the less to be esteemed, if the Popes were not worse to bèe thought of for wanting of Latin: for if your Spiritual Popes that had all laws in their bosoms, and an heavenly or divine judgement in their breasts wanted Latin and Grammar as is before proved: Then sir Owen Hopton being but a temporal knight and the Queen's Lieutenant of the Tower, may well lack both Heinwe and Greek. And thus though you seem to deride me for want of 〈◊〉 and learning: yet I wish with all my heart that Christ do not despise you at the last and dreedefull day for lack of faith. The 46. part. YOu say that I cite all my whole matter out of jewels 46. part. defence of the Apology, Fox his martyrologue, and Cowper Epitome of the Chronicle. As good, as wise, as godly & learned as you would have named these three worthy and learned men with more reverence than you have done: being three such special and painful learned writers for the commodity of their Country, and for the perpetual profit of our posterity, as neither your great city of Rome, nor yet the whole Country of Italy have bread or brought forth at any one time three such, as this our Country of England hath done of them, at least so manifestly known by their works, as they are by their writings. We Christians here in England do knowledge ourselves greatly bound to God for them and such like: though you jesuits do make small account of them. I had been a very unskilful writer if I had not written in the same part of my book, one sentence of mine own but all of other men's doings, (seeing it was one of the three parts of forty sheets of Paper). But as all your words before, have not been Gospel, so here you have spoken more than truth. But if you were as loath to speak that is false, as it seemeth you are careless 〈◊〉 you speak: you would I am sure have said, that some part of the same was none of theirs. Whether all my matter of that part of my said book be cited out of master jewel, master Cowpers and master Foxes books, I will refer the same to the indifferent reader thereof. And if they say that I have cited all the matter therein contained out of the said learned men's books, I will become a 〈◊〉, so that you, if they say contrary will become a Christian. But as many arguments, similitudes, and sentences of the same was of mine own devising through God's help: so there are other learned authorities that I had never of them. But suppose that I had taken all my authors for my purpose out of them (being the authors words and truly alleged) should that be a discredit to my 〈◊〉 must every book be counted unlearned and of no value, unless every sentence of Saint Augustine, Chrisostome, or other learned fathers, doctors or writers, that is 〈◊〉 therein, be taken out of the authors work that first wrote them? Then many of your Papistical pamphlets that you esteem and extol must not go for 〈◊〉. Can you make me believe that every author cited by you, is taken out of the original work? I scantly think it. I doubt not but that some of you do credit your friends quoting sometime without further search. What if I should allege out of the Gospel of Saint Matthew these words of Esay spoken by Christ, which rightly may be applied unto you, With the ears ye shall hear and Math. 15 shall not understand, and with the eyes ye shall see and isaiah. 6 shall not perceive, etc. Or these words of Esay out of Saint Marks Gospel, This people honoureth me with Mark. 7 their lips, but their hearts are far from me: Will isaiah. 29 you not credit Christ the citer hereof? Or will you jest at the work because I took them not out of the book of the prophesy of Esay? May not a man upon the credit of Saint Paul recite upon some occasion, some of his 〈◊〉 of the Prophets or other Scriptures that he citeth in his Epistles? Or shall the book be disdained or discredited, because the writer of the book, took not the same out of the Prophet that spoke them? Or out of his book that first wrote them? They that therefore will mislike a book are rather precise papists then perfect Protestants. If I should make a good & precious medicine, would you dispraise or despise that good and precious medicine or think scorn of it, because the herbs that made it was not gathered in the garden beyond the Sea, from whence the Seeds or herbs were first brought: If you were so curious you were not worthy to be cured of your disease. And if such curiosity were used, many one would be dead before the medicine were made. It maketh no matter how nigh or where the herbs be gathered, so that they be the right herbs, and have the very virtue. And so if we produce learned men's sayings for testimony, and make therewith a spiritual confection for the health of the soul: it forceth not out of what book we cite them, so that they be the right words and the true sense of the first Author. Therefore though I had cited all my matter out of master jewels, master Foxes, and master Cowpers books, (as I have not) so that they be apt & fit for my purpose, being the very true words, of the first and original author thereof: you had neither therefore cause to discredit my book, neither the indifferent Reader to mislike my book. Perhaps you disdain or mislike it, because I have cited in some points master jewel, master Cowper, and master Fox for authority, seeing they are yet alive or were but late writers: and therefore you think them unworthy to be cited as authors. Surely if you think so, as I believe both you and many other do so: then I take your opinion therein to be rather preposterous then profound, and reprovable then reasonable. For if in worldly affairs, witnesses are thought best when they be living: shall witnesses than be thought best in heavenly causes when they be dead? Antiquity is no credit to an evil writer, neither late years can be any discredit to a good writer. Time ought not to be preferred before truth, but truth before time. Christ's and his Apostles words were as true and good fifteen hundredth years since as they be now: Therefore the long continuance of the time since, maketh not their words the truer, or their authority the better. So that if a man's words or writings are worthy to be alleged for authority a thousand years after he is dead: then they may be alleged in his life time, or soon after his death. Wherefore if master jewel late Bishop of 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 the reverend and learned Doctor Cowper now Bishop of Lincolu, and the godly, zealous, and learned master Fox, have written wisely, faithfully and truly, (as most assuredly they have done, whose worthy works you may well dispraise, but never confound or confute) than they deserve now as well to be alleged for authorities, as though they had written them a thousand year since. And to tell you truly, thes their learned works procured me to produce them for witnesses and to quote their sayings in my said book, the rather thereby to allure more to esteem their writings and to read their said books. So that if you consider all things well, you ought neither to disdain nor discredit my book, for alleging authorities out of master jewel, Doctor Cowper and master Fox, who were and are famous, godly, and learned writers. The 47. part. AS you say, I do it, without all modesty or limitation 47. 〈◊〉. of lying, whether I do lie without all modesty, it is very manifest that you have falsified my words with no great modesty. And as my lies are without limitation, so they are without number, for that you are not able to prove me so much as with one lie: for if you could your Reader should have been sure to have heard of it. But whereas you say, without any further proof, that I lie without limitation, I have plainly proved before, that you have lied with limitation, and so your lies are limited and mine unlimited. My lies are so far hence, and that is because they are without limitation, that you cannot find them: but your lies are so nigh hand (because they are within limitation) that I quickly spied them. Well, though to my remembrance I have not made any 〈◊〉 lie in all my said book, yet I must needs confess that I made a very foul oversight in taking one syllable in steed of another, which was in the entitling of my book, naming it a persuasion in steed of a disuasion. But for your just reproving me therein, I have I trust sufficiently set forth mine own negligence with the due commendation of your intelligence: not doubting but that your gentle instruction shall be a sufficient warning for me ever hereafter, for using persuasion in steed of disuasion. When you shall chance to make any more lies, you were best let them be made without limitation, as mine were: and then it will be hard to find them, for yours were limited within such a small compass, that they were espied and catched at the first. The 48. part. THen after you come to show my lies, but it had been 48. part. better for you I think, not to have uttered them, for surely they will rather shame yourself, than credit your cause. And these are your words that follow. For he saith that the Papists hold: a Pag. 99 The Pope to Discovery. Pag. 184. be very God: b Pag. 96. The light of the world, & the Saviour of mankind: c Pag. 99 That they print him in their books, our Persuasion. Lord God the Pope: d Pag. 100 That the Pope also acknowledgeth the thing, taking himself in deed to be a God: e Pag. 98. That he dispenseth both against the old and new testament: lupton's lies. f* Pag. 172. That he biddeth us not to forbear swearing any day: g Pag. 193. That he alloweth all priests to have harlots: h Pag. 131. That he giveth licence for money to keep as many concubines as a man will: i Pag. 171. That his fast is, to cram in as many banqueting dishes as men can: k Pag. 5. 6 That all papists are worse and deserve more death, than drunkards, thieves, murderers and Pirates. This is Lupton's charitable doctrine, with many things more which I omit. You have gathered divers of my words written in sundry places, & couched them altogether at your pleasure here in one place. And you have further more cut and curtalde them far otherwise than I wrote them: whereby you have marred my method, and drowned my sense, making my words to hang together as feathers do in the wind, and all to discredit my book. Thus you do not only deface and falsify my words, but also you fetch them out of their due places where I did set them, and do place them in such crooked corners, that they neither reprove falsehood, nor yet defend truth. And when you have done so, you neither confute nor reprove them, unless you do it with these words: This is Lupton's charitable doctrine, with many things more which I omit, or else perhaps your words in the margin (which is lupton's lies) have confuted them. If I should have gone about to confute you only with false repeating and unorderly displacing of your words, without any more a do: then I had not taken half the pains I have done. I have not dealt thus with you as the indifferent reader may judge: for I have not left out one word of yours, neither have I added any words to yours, nor yet have I displaced any words of yours. But you when you have falsified my words, you leave them at random, committing the confuting thereof to your reader: whose misliking thereof (who can not well like them as you have used them) is all the confuting that you desire. If you did love the doctrine of jesus as well inwardly, as hypocritically you profess his name outwardly: you would deal plainly and truly as jesus did. But because you deal fraudulently and falsely, you are rather of the fellowship of judas than of jesus. Yet for all your falsifying of my words, suppose that I had written the self same words before mentioned, 〈◊〉 had placed them even in such order as you have done: you seem by your silence without further reproving or confuting them, that they are true. For if they had been false, why have you not particularly declared how and in what sort they are false, as I have done yours? Truly, if they had been lies as they are not, you would have certified your reader wherein I had lied. For you that would discredit me for mistaking of a syllable: (as you thought) no doubt you would have proved me a liar in all this if you could. At the first beginning of which your falsified words, you affirm that I say, that the papists hold, the pope to be very God. etc. If you had meant as truly, as here you 〈◊〉 fasely: you would not have fathered those words on me that I wrote not. For I have not said, that the papists hold the pope to be very God. etc. For I am assured that a great sort that favour the pope's religion do not believe or hold, nay, rather that none at all do hold, the pope to be very God. (Hoping there are few so fond, or any so mad, and yet a great sort are fond and mad enough) And now that the indifferent reader may perceive your crafty juggling. and how you have foisted in your own words in stead of mine: here will describe mine own words that they may answer for themselves. And for that you have displaced my words, besides your adding too much in some place, and saying too little in an other place: I will set them now again among their own fellows. And these they are that follow. Pers. from papistry Pag. 98 The Popes canonists say (I say not the papists hold) that the pope may dispense against the law of God: The pope may dispense against the law of nature: The pope 16. Q. quicumque in glossa. may dispense against Saint Paul the Apostle: The pope may dispense against the new Testament: The pope may 15. q. 6. author. in glossae dist, 34. lect. dispense with all the Commandments, both of the old and also of the new Testament. These are my words in my said book with their authorities Abbas pano. Extra. de 〈◊〉 vor. cap. fin. quoted in the margin, whereby the reader may perceive that you have both left out much of my matter and wronged my words. The pope had need to have a large 〈◊〉 Angel. in distin. pap. commission to dispense with all these. And then on the next page or side following being the 99 page, it followeth thus, Who would think that these proud pope's would suffer themselves to be called God, or that any would be so beastly or wicked to call them so? The pope's Canonists have moved questions whether the pope be God or not. (I said not that the papists hold the Pope to be very god, as you have misreported me) And one said thus presently before his face in the Council of Laterane without rebuke. Thou art another God in the earth. And the pope's godhead Christopher Marcel. con. later. Sess. 4 is published abroad to the whole world in printed books: Our Lord God the pope. These are my very words which you have not only displaced but also defaced: whereby Extra. Ioha. 22. cuminter in glossa. Im. the indifferent reader may also perceive that I said not as you falsely have alleged, That the papists hold the pope to be very God. But here they may see plainly that Lugduni. I have proved (without your reproving) that one said Anno, 1555. to the pope, and he gently took it upon him, Thou art another God in the earth. And that he is called, Our Lord god the pope, in a book printed at Lions in the year of our Lord 1555. (which is not past xxvi. or xxvii. years since) It had been better you had not recited these words, for thereby you are proved to have falsified my words, and that your pope was called another God on the earth. And that he was published our Lord God the pope in a book printed not long since. Which if it be not to much for any earthly man to take upon him: let the indifferent reader be judge. You 〈◊〉 seem to jest out the matter with reciting my words falsely, as though it were sufficient for your reader to think they were lupton's lies because you have written 〈◊〉 lies in your margin, without any other reproving or confuting. But howsoever you 〈◊〉 me to lie, it appeareth manifestly by the Popes canonists, (as is before written) that the pope may dispense against the law of God, against the law of nature, against Saint Paul the Apostle, against the New Testament, and against all the commandments both of the old and new Testament. All which dispensations you have clean left 〈◊〉, except the last, and yet you have falsified the same in two points: for whereas I said The Pope's Canonists say that the pope may dispense, you said that I say he dispenseth: And whereas I said the Popes canonists say that the Pope may dispense with all the commandments both of the old and new Testament, You affirm that I say, he dispenseth both against the old and new Testament. Whereby you would fain prove me a liar, for if this pope that is now doth not dispense both against the old and new Testament, I should have lied if I had said so. So that hereby you show yourself to deal falsely and mean crafcely. But if there were no more but that that you writ, and if it were none otherwise but even as you have written: yet you have not confuted my words, nor proved me a liar: but rather affirm them by holding your peace for quitacet consentire videtur. The pope that taketh upon him to dispense with all these (though he were not called our Lord God the pope as he hath been) maketh himself more like a God than a man. Christ the Son of God that is a little better than the Pope, did never claim authority to dispense against the word of God, as the Pope here manifestly doth. You jesuits being in the pope's favour need not care what sins you commit, for the pope may dispense with them whatsoever they be. Here you may see that these are not lupton's lies, as you have written in the margin of your book: for I have plainly told you where they are written and where you may find them. But the indifferent reader may easily perceive, that a jesuite hath lied most manifestly 〈◊〉 a Christian. The 49. part. 49. part. YOu have also chopped in after your said falsified words (which are that the papists hold the pope to be very God) certain other words of mine recited almost two leaves before, & that not altogether as I spoke them, affirming thereby that I say, the papists also hold the Pope to be the light of the world, and the Saviour of mankind. In deed in the 95. and 96. page or side of my said book, I have recited these words, That the pope is the light that is come into the world, that he is the Saviour of mankind, but you have left out the rest of the sentences before, which should have opened my meaning therein, and the right sense of the same. And therefore to discredit me and to make me seem a liar according to your words in your Margin: (which are lupton's lies) you have devised and invented (most unhonestly and unchristianly) words of your own, making all the words that follow to hang on the same. Whose subtle drift was thereby to prove me a liar, though the words I recited against the Pope were true. For though the Pope hath been called an other God on the earth, and though he be called in printed books our Lord God the Pope, (as before I have proved) and if he have been called the light that is come into the world and the Saviour of mankind with the rest (as herein I shall prove the same God willing) yet if I should according to your words have said that the papists hold that he is so: I should have made a manifest lie, for he that telleth a true thing untruly is a liar. And therefore though you were not able to unburden the Pope of those titles that only belong to God and to his Son Christ, yea and of the other, that neither God nor Christ will dispense withal: yet you thought to make me a liar by foisting in your own words that I never wrote nor meant. But to set forth your unhonest dealing and to manifest my plain and true writing: I will recite mine own words of the Pope's proud and too too presumptuous titles, whereby I wrote these words wherewith you charge me to be such a liar. And the occasion thereof was, because the Pope calleth himself the servant of God's Servants: and would have men think that he is the lowliest and most humble of all other: whereas he is the most proud and lucifer-like of all other, and here follow my very words. Yet mark the lowliness and humility of the pope, Persuasion from papistry page 95. that calleth himself the Servant of God's Servants: In the late counsel holden at 〈◊〉 in Rome, one Simon Begnius the Bishop of Modrusa said thus to Pope Council Lat. 〈◊〉. 6. pa. 604 Leo, Behold the Lion is come of the tribe of juda the root of David, etc. O most blessed Leo, we have looked for thee to be our Saviour. This I think was sufficient for a Pope. If the Pope had not told us that he is the vicar of Christ, a man would have thought by these words, that he had been Christ himself. And then immediately after, these are my very words that follow. In the late Chapter of Trident, Cornelius the Bishop of Bitonto said thus: The pope is the light that is come Con. Tri sub Paul. 3. orati. into the world, but men have loved darkness more than the light. Every man that hath done evil hateth the light Cornelii Epis. and cometh not to the light. Bitontini. Here I have not said that the papists hold, that the Pope is our Saviour, nor that he is the light of the world: But I have proved and plainly told that the Bishop of Modrusa said to Pope Leo, O most blessed Leo we have looked for thee to be our Saviour. And also that Cornelius the Bishop of Bitonto said, The pope is the light that is come into the world, but men have loved darkness more than light. etc. Which you have not disproved but falsified as before is to be seen, neither yet confuted, unless your words in the margin, (which is lupton's lies) hath confuted it. And after that, these are my words that follow, (but you left them out, belike you were ashamed to utter them, as you might well enough.) The pope suffered the Ambassadors of Cicilia to lie Paulus Aemilius lib. 7. prostrate on the ground, and thus to cry unto him, as if it had been to Christ: Holy Father that takest away the sins of the world, have mercy upon us: Thou that takest away the sins of the world, give us peace. Pope Sextus sayeth, who so accuseth the pope, can never be forgiven, and his reason is this, he that sinneth Concil. tom. 1 in purga. 〈◊〉 against the holy Ghost, shall never be forgiven, neither in this world nor in the world to come. (I never heard so plainly what was the sin of the holy ghost before,) If this be true, that to accuse the pope: is the sin against the holy Ghost, than it is no 〈◊〉 though the papists that believe this, dare not accuse the pope, but think that he is most holy what so ever he doth, for fear they shall neither be forgiven in this world nor in the world to come. Surely they are sound and grounded papists, that believe the pope to be the Lion of the tribe of juda, that he is the root of David, that the pope is the light that is come into the world, that he is the Saviour of mankind, that he is the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world, that whosoever accuseth him of his wickedness, doth sin against the holy Ghost. Oh horrible, heinous, and intolerable blasphemy, that which is to be applied to our Saviour Christ the Son of GOD, and to none other: this vile and most sinful wretch the pope, applieth to himself. I trust there is none of you, be you never so wilful, obstinate, and bent to the pope's Law, but as soon as you hear this the pope's great blasphemy, and how he taketh that unto himself, that is only due to christ: but speedily (except ye are determined to be the children of the Devil) will fly from this antichrist and his doctrine, and embrace Gods most holy word, for if he be not Antichrist, then there was never any, nor never will be. These are mine own words which you have displased and falsified, whereby the indifferent reader may plainly 〈◊〉, that I have not said that the papists hold the Pope to be very God, neither have I lied as you say, but proved manifestly that the Pope was called an other God in the earth: that he was published in printed books, Our Lord God the Pope: That the Bishop of Modrusa said to Pope Leo, Behold the Lion is come of the tribe of juda the root of David, O most blessed Leo, we have looked for thee to be our Saviour: That the bishop of Bitonto said, the pope is the light that is come into the world. And moreover, (which you left out) that the Ambassadors of Cicilia lying on the ground, said to the Pope, Holy Father that takest away the sins of the world, have mercy upon us, etc. and that it is the sin against the holy Ghost to accuse the Pope, which shall never be forgiven. A man would think all this is enough for a Pope, yet you of your 〈◊〉 have in your margin written lupton's lies: though you have not proved any one lie, neither confuted any one word, but as an unjust jesuite have falsified displaced and left out my words, and foisted in your own words to make me a liar. Have you not got a goodly gain hereby? yes I trow, for by your discommending me and my book, you have so commended yourself and your Popes, that you are proved a falsifier and an envious jesuite, and your pope's to be very Antichristes, in that they take upon them, that which is due unto Christ. If the Pope have no better proctor's than you: they will rather help to pop him out of his popedom, then prop him up in his kingdom. The 50. part. WHere as you allege (as is before mentioned) the 〈◊〉. part. in the 100 page of my book, I say, that the pope also knowledgeth the thing, taking himself indeed to be a God, I am most sure & certain, that I have no such words at all, musing what should move you to father such falsehoods on me, unless you pretend purposely to procure me to publish further the pernicious presumptions of your pope's. But though I cannot find your words in all the same page, nor yet in any part of my said book: here I will describe the most likest words unto them that are there to be found, and these are they, Abbot Panormitane saith out of Hostiensis, Christus & Papa faciunt unum consistorium, & excepto peccato, potest De elect cap licet Ab. Papa quasi omnia facere quae potest Deus. Christ and the Pope make one Consistory, and sin excepted, the Pope in a manner can do all things that God can do. As you would have your Reader think, that your reciting of my words is sufficient to make them lies: so I would have your Reader to judge, that my reciting of these words is sufficient to prove Panormitan an abominable and detestable blasphemer. And as you have falsified my words first, and then committed them to be confuted of your Reader: so I have written Panormitanes' words truly, and commit them to the judgement of the indifferent Reader. For I believe it is hard to find a Reader that will think, that Christ and the Pope have one judgement Seat, and that the Pope can in a manner do all things that God can do. But this I will speak on the Pope's behalf, though he cannot do all that God can do, yet am I sure he can do more than GOD can do, for he can sin, he can be a liar, he can be unmerciful and a tyrant, he can break his promise, he can promise more than he can perform, and he can show himself wiser and mightier than he is: all which God cannot do. And thus as Silvester 〈◊〉 Silvester 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. saith, that the authority of the Church of Rome is more than God's word: So I say the Pope is able to do more than God can do, or at the least, that that God cannot do. Therefore though you a jesuite do charge me with that I never wrote: yet I have not fathered all the falsehoods on Panormitan that he hath written. This your falsifing, displacing, and leaving out of my words, and foisting in of your own, will procure but small praise to yourself, and less credit to your Pope. The 51. part. THen you leap suddenly (I know not upon what occasion) to the 172. page, being seventy pages or sides 51. part. from that place at the least: (which is a lusty leap of a jesuite, and I may say to you, a few such leaps will quickly leap over the whole book. Yea & your leaps are so light, that it will scantly appear I believe, that you have touched the book.) where, you affirm that I have written there, That the Pope biddeth us not to forbear 172. swearing any day: and so you leave that matter without any other confuting, and go no further. If my matters hanged thus as you have patched them together, my book had been more meet to have been written to one of your unlearned Popes, then to such a learned and prudent Prince. But because you have skipped so swiftly & so far of to these few words, without declaring any other words either before or after the same, & leaps to another matter 21. pages or sides from the same: I will here write mine own words both going before and following, whereby the indifferent Reader may see whether their matter, method, and sense, be better where you have displaced than, than where I first placed them. When I had confuted in my 〈◊〉 book some part of the Pope's doctrine, I came then as occasion served to the disproving of the Pope's fast, and when I had discoursed thereof as I thought meet, I followed then with these words, S. Augustin one of the excellentest Doctors (whose judgement Persua. from papistry. I trust you will not refuse) writeth: Upon what days we ought not to fast, and upon what days we ought to Pag. 171. fast, I find it not appointed 〈◊〉 limited by any 〈◊〉 August. Epist. 86 either of our Lord, or of the Apostles. But what if S. Augustine had willed us to fast 〈◊〉 such days as the Pope doth appoint, & a thousand other learned men more, yet we are not bound either to believe or follow him or them, unless we find their sayings agree with God's word, for God's word must lead them, but they may not lead God's word. Therefore because your Popish fast is not commanded nor allowed by the holy scriptures, but clean contrary to the same as before is proved, therefore it is superstitious, wicked, and highly displeaseth God, and so of us Christians ought not to be used nor commended, 〈◊〉 it be used for worldly policy. God commanded us to refrain swearing every day, but for fasting he appointeth us no day: but the Pope commandeth us to fast certain days, but biddeth us not forbear swearing any day: Yet many of you regard the Pope's law so much, and God's commandment so little, that you think it a heinous matter to break the Hear 〈◊〉 my words which have another manner of sense than they have where you placed them. fasting days that the Pope hath commanded: but make it no matter of conscience to swear every day, which god hath forbidden. Therefore keep the fasting days commanded by our Queen for good order and policy, & not for the Pope's pleasure, for his holiness or hypocrisy. etc. Hear have I written plainly my very words with the occasion and circumstances thereof: whereby the indifferent Reader may perceive that my words being in their own place are not without method nor meaning, and that you have not dealt very honestly with me, to shift my words so far out of their own place, into such a strait, narrow & unfit corner, yea and that in such a strange place, and so 〈◊〉 from their friends, that should have taken their part, that they that see them, may suspect them for vagabonds. If I should use this order with your book as you do with mine, that is to pick out half a score words, or either more or less where I thought good, & chop 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 other words 20 or 30. leaves of, yea & with such words as appertained nothing to that purpose, & writ nothing between to confute or reprove them as you do now here & have done before: the 〈◊〉 of your book might soon he bereaved, and you thereby should get but small credit, But though you a jesuite can deal thus falsely 〈◊〉 a 〈◊〉: yet I a Christian cannot deal so unjustly with a 〈◊〉. Therefore flee falsehood that works your own shame, and deal truly and uprightly as becometh the servants of jesus. The 52. part. AND then again you leap at one leap 21. pages or 52. part. sides further, and there you cull or weed out about 8. of my words, & join them to these words concerning swearing before mentioned, nothing touching that matter or purpose, and so you put them at your pleasure, without any circumstance, in a most unapt place, where they agree aswell as though a dog and a cat were tied together. But the unapter the place is, the better it liketh you. If you were as honest as you count yourself holy: you would suffer my words to go among their fellows and acquaintance, and not to fetch them so far of, and thrust them you care not how, among aliens and strangers. Nay, beside that you have spoiled them of my livery & covered them with your own coat, whereby they seem not mine but yours, & these are they, that he (which is) the Pope alloweth all priests to have 〈◊〉. harlots. But when you have thus defaced and displaced them, you neither disprove them nor confute them: but as you have done with the rest, you leave them to your Reader to confute. But if I had written the self same words: (as I have not) yet I have proved them before to be true. But that the indifferent reader may perceive that my words are neither so false nor so far out of frame, as you would have them think: I will repeat mine own words, and a few words besides that immediately go before, the better to open the cause why I wrote them. In that part of my book where I disprove the Pope for forbidding of priests marriages, and for allowing or suffering Priests to have concubines, among the rest I have written thus: And in the Rubric upon the 34. distinction, Persuasion from papistry Pag. 192. Is qui: is thus: It is lawful for him that hath no wife, in steed of her to have a concubine (here is good stuff) and what is a concubine but an 〈◊〉? etc. May Distin. 34. you not now perceive that the Pope's law is a pure and Is qui. holy law, that alloweth Priests to have harlots, and forbiddeth Pag. 193. them to have wives? Nay punisheth them and burneth them for Heretics that have wives. Hear it is manifest that I wrote not as you have misreported 〈◊〉, that the Pope alloweth all Priests to have harlots, but thus, may you not perceive that the pope's law is a pure and holy law that alloweth priests to have Harlots? Hear I have not only proved that you wrested and displaced my words, but also that the Pope's law alloweth Priests to have harlots, though you have said before, that the Pope taketh not money of the Courtesans and the Harlots of the Stews of Rome for allowance of their life, but as a punishment of their offence. This kind of dealing will get you small gain. The 53. part. BUT here I espy another thing that maketh me to 53. part. muse, it seemeth you are weary of leaping forward, for that on a sudden you leap or skip backwardly. But you have a special property that few lepers have, for whereas every leper can leap further forward then backward, you excelling all other lepers can leap further backward then forward: for whereas your last leap forward was not passed 21. sides or pages: now you have leapt backward at one leap, 62. pages or sides, which is twice as much backward as you leapt forward. I would hardly have believed (unless I had seen it) that a jesuite could have leapt so far backward at a leap. Out of which place you did take and choose certain words, and join them to your words before recited, which you cited as mine, and there you affirm that I say, That he (that is Pag. 131. the pope) giveth licence for money to keep as many 〈◊〉 Pag. 131. as a man will. And so (without any more words) you leave them as you do all the rest, for your Reader to confute if he will, for that either you cannot, or else you have made some vow that you will not. But what if these words you have charged me withal, be neither there nor in any other part of my book: would you have then your reader judge, that a jesuite hath dealt justly with a Christian: If there be any words there to that effect, I will recite them whereby the indifferent Reader may see whether your words that you father on me agree with mine or not. But before I proceed any further, I will repeat the words before of Cardinal Cusanus that gave me occasion to write them, & these are my very words. Mark also what that caterpillar Persuasion from papistry Pag. 129. Cardinal Cusanus writeth for the authority of the Romish church above the scriptures? I tell thee (saith he) that there is nothing taken for Christ's commandment, unless it be so allowed of the Church (meaning the church of Rome) when the Church hath changed her judgement, God's judgement is likewise changed. Oh abominable and detestable imps of Satan, though the whorish church of Rome may change in her judgements: yet God in his holy word is infallible and unchangeable in his judgements. What hell hounds are these that would make us believe, that as the pope's judgements do change, so God's judgements do change, and that nothing is taken for God's judgements, unless the Pope & the church of Rome allow of it? But contrary say I that the commandments of the Pope, and of their church are nothing unless Christ doth allow them. And after I have uttered these words, I discoursed upon all the ten commandments, alluding them as changed into the pope's commandments. And upon the commandment of committing adultery, I writ thus: And whereas God saith, Thou shalt not come mit adultery, now the judgement of the Pope and the Pag. 131. church of Rome is changed, and therefore God's judgment is changed. So that this law by the iudgemét of the church of Rome must now be thus, thou shalt not marry, but thou mayest have a concubine or a harlot, to commit adultery or fornication withal, & thou shalt have a licence for money of the Pope to do so, and so he shall allow thee to commit adultery or to play the whoremonger or harlot, but take heed thou marry not according to the law of God, for than thou shalt lose all thy living, and thou shalt be taken for an heretic, and the Pope will not dispense with thee therefore. These are my words, but amongst them all your words before mentioned that you have fathered on me, which are these that follow, (That he giveth licence for money to keep as many concubines as a man will) are not to be found: and therefore you lost your labour to leap so far backward, for that that was not there. But when you saw that you could not find there a fit lie for your purpose: you thought it was better to devise a lie of your own, rather than you would return again without a lie. But though I have not said that the pope giveth licence for money to keep as many concubines as a man will: yet it appeareth plainly, that he permitteth the women in his stews in Rome for money to play the whores as oft as they list, & men to lie with them as oft as they will, & that he alloweth his prelates & Priests to play the fornicators, (but in any wise not to marry) as it appeareth in the Pope's decrees by these words which are before mentioned, He that hath not a wife, in steed Distin. 34. of her must or aught to have a concubine: And also by Is qui. 〈◊〉. Anno. 1505. these words Videtur quod crimen Meretricit, etc. It seemeth that the Church ought to pass over the crime of whoredom under dissimulation, with divers other most devilish & Consti. Otho. bon. de concub. clerico. removed, licet ad profug. in glossa. detestable decrees for maintaining of the same as in other places I have declared before. Wherefore though you would have your Reader to think that your words were mine, yet you leave them barely as you have done the 〈◊〉, without disproving them, leaving them to be discredited of your Reader: Which you yourself were not able to confute, and yet they were your own words and not mine, as before it is manifest. A true Christian would be 〈◊〉 to be taken in such a trip, 〈◊〉 I have now taken you being a jesuite. The 54. part. AFter this, what sudden toy hath taken you in the head 54. part. I know 〈◊〉, but you have jumped forward forty sides or pages, where, belike you have spied some thing that will serve your turn, which you have joined to your former falsified words, and that are these, That his fast is, to cram in as many banqueting dishes as men Pag. 171. can: and there you stay and go no further, leaving them as you have done the rest for your Reader to confute. But as (according to your wont) you have written my words otherwise then I wrote them: so you left out those words both before and after them, which openeth the sense thereof, neither have you declared how I compared the Pope's fast and Christ's fast together, but because you have written them both falsely and left them nakedly, to make your reader have an evil opinion in me, & to discredit my book: I will here utter mine own words that they may show whether they are so without order, sense, or good meaning, as you have gone about to make them. And thus they are as follow. And as this Romish Church hath with her most wicked prayer, blotted out the pure and perfect order of praying Pèrsua. from papistry. which Christ did teach in the scriptures: even so she hath with her vain, fond, and superstitious fastings quite banished Pag. 170. the true fasting required by the Gospel. For Christ in the Gospel saith, When ye fast be not sad as the hypocrites are, etc. But when thou fastest appear not unto Math. 6. men to fast, but unto thy father which is in secret, and thy father which seethe in secret, shall reward thee openly. Hear Christ doth appoint us that we must not let it be known when we fast, but the pope's fast is published, & the days so commonly and openly commanded & appointed, that every one may know when they fast. So that Christ hath appointed his fasting so privily: but the Church of Rome proclaims her fasts as openly. Christ hath appointed no days nor times for his fasting: The Church of Rome hath appointed days and times for her fasting. The meaning of Christ's fasting is to abstain from what soever either meats or drinks that make us prone to sin: The pope's fast is to forbear flesh only, but permits men to eat all kind of fish though it be never so dainty & These are the words that both falsely & nakedly you have chopped in so far from their own place & out of order. deliciously dressed, and all kind of iunkettes and banqueting dishes, with delicate wines, as much as we will cram and powrein: Christ's fast is to keep our bodies low, to be in subjection to the spirit: But that is not performed in the pope's fast, but by their dainty dishes and drinks, the Spirit is brought in subjection of the body. Christ's fast is a willing and an uncompelled, abstinence: The pope's fast is a constrained abstinence, and is done of many against their wills. Christ's fasting is to make us virtuous and holy before god: The pope's fast is hypocritical, and to make us seem holy before men. This is difference enough to show you that the Christian fasting of Christ, and the common fasting of the Pope, are far unlike and do not agree, so that the one shall have his reward hereafter of God, and the other hath his reward already of men etc. And this is the circumstance, cause, and effect of my words. Thus the indifferent reader may perceive, that you have not only altered my words, but also through displacing them and cutting them from their 〈◊〉, which should have witnessed their true intent, 〈◊〉, and meaning: you have gone about to beguile him, yea and moste maliciously to discredit or defame me. But I trust by that time he hath weighed my words and your words together, he will regard my book as it is, and you as you are. The 55. part. IF I had made such bagaries in my book as you have done 55. part. here in yours, you might then have justly said that I wandered without all wit or learning, for whereas you picked your last words (though falsely) out of the 171. page of my book: now on the sudden you have leapt backward again an 164. pages at the least, which is a great deal further than before. So that it seemeth you have tried how far (if need were) you can leap backward, especially at a dead lift. If you had leapt but half a score sides or pages further, you had leapt quite out of the book: and then you had not found this snare where with you have snarled me. Well, I must get out of it as well as I may: and these are your words that follow, affirming that I say in the 5. and 6. page of my book. That all papists are worse and deserve 〈◊〉 death, than drunkards, thieves, murderers, page. 5. 6. and pirates, and so you leave, neither disproving nor confuting them, by any other proof or argument, but refers it to your reader to confute if he list, as you have done all the rest: or else perhaps you look that either they should disprove or confute themselves, or that these your knitting up words that follow, should take the pains to do so much for you. Which are, This is Lupton's charitable doctrine, with many things more which I omit. You have quoted in your margin that these my words are in the 5. and 6. page or side of my book. Surely if the sever all matters that you writ as mine, were as sententious as they be short, and were uttered as truly as you have written them falsely: I am sure you would never have cumbarde your book with them. There are but fifteen words of them in all, 〈◊〉 that me thinks one side might have held them well enough, especially seeing two lines of one of the sides of my book holdeth as much and more. And I am sure it would have done so (as the end of the fift and 〈◊〉 pages fall out) if you had written any one Sentence of mine as I wrote it. But as you have falsisted my words before, so have you done now, and you seem to include as you thought good, the whole circumstance and arguments of these two sides or pages to that end in your aforesaid fifteen 〈◊〉 words, which is too strait a room for a Christian by way of argument to prove the easiest matter that is. I know not what a jesuite may do. But that it may appear how you go about to disgrace my said book, and to discredit me by deceiving your reader: I will here recite mine own words, that the indifferent reader may see whether you have used me indifferently, and whether you meant well to father such falsehood on me or not. In deed I have proved by arguments, that you that are obstinate, disobedient, & determined papists, are most earnest Enemies to England of all other, and deserve death more than thieves, murderers, pirates, coiners and such like: but that I have said that all papists are worse and deserve more death than drunkards, thieves, murderers and pirates, I utterly deny. And in that case of death I named not drunkards, for that we have no Law to put them to death. And now here followeth mine own words, which I doubt not but that the reader will consider indifferently for us both. Our thieves are English enemies, whereof many steal Pèrsua from papistry. for necessity: Unthrifts are English enemies both to themselves and to other, for that they spend wastefully on Pag. 5. themselves that other have need of: Drunkards are English enemies, but are most of all their own foes (unless they kill or hurt any in their drunkenness) besides many such like Enemies: yet all these with many other, are not such English Enemies (unless they be papists with all) but that they love their prince, obey and follow her godly proceed, wish her a prosperous reign, and would fight (if need were) for her grace, and help to defend this their Country from her foes: which may be counted as friends in comparison, of you that are such papistical Enemies. For though there are many enemies, as thieves, murderers, pirates, coiners, clippers of money, & counterfeaters of the Queen's seal, with divers other, yet you that are obstinate, disobedient, and determined papists, are the most earnest enemies to England of all other: for if the Queen's Majesty should enrich, set in authority, or promote the said thieves, murderers, pirates, coiners, clippers of money, and counterfeaters of her highness seal (unless they be papists withal) they would thank her, love her, obey her, and observe 〈◊〉 laws, and so of English enemies become English friends, which you that are perverse and determined papists would never do, though her grace should do so to you: for as harlots that love other better than they love their husbands, (though their husbands love 〈◊〉 never so well) set all their whole mind, devices and studies, how to be rid of their husbands: Even so you that are obstinate and determined papists (that are spiritual fornicators) though the Queen's Majesty should give you great livings, set you in authority, or highly promote you: yet for all that your chief mind and study would be, how to be rid of her grace, how to displace her, and how to have a papist to rule in her room, whereby you might at your own 〈◊〉 commit spiritual whoredom with Idols, Images, and the Mass, which you love better than your own loving husband Christ the son of God. And thus let the Queen's Majesty do for you never so much, yet you will not be English friends, but utter enemies to her grace and to England your own native Country, until of perverse papists you become perfit protestants which is altogether my drift. Yet I beseech you mark this & consider it well, though very need compel the aforesaid (for the most part) to be thieves, murderers, pirates, coiners of money, and such like, to be English enemies, which may and do daily become English friends: yet there are such laws for them, as therefore they are put to death. But for you that are obstinate and disobedient papists (that are so great enemies to England without need) and that nothing can reclaim to be friends to England: our most mild and merciful Queen as yet hath made no such law to put you to death, nor grievously to punish you, though you deserve death a great deal more (all things well weighed and considered) than any of the other 〈◊〉 enemies do. For if one that clippeth or diminisheth the Queen's coin, whereon her Image or picture is but printed or stamped, is worthily called a traitor, and by law therefore is hanged, drawn and quartered: Then are not you worthy to be called traitors and deserve death, which procure, wish or desire, by any mean, the displeasing of your prince, the destruction of her person, the alteration of our most quiet and happy state, the calamity of your Countrymen, the confusion of the common wealth, and the ruin of this our worthy realm of England. Here the indifferent reader may perceive, that by these my arguments I have proved you that are obstinate, perverse, disobedient, and determined papists, to be earnest and extreme 〈◊〉 to England, and that you deserve death a great deal more, than thieves, murderers, pirates, coiners of money, and such like, but that all papists are worse and deserve more death, than drunkards, thieves, murderers, and pirates, as you have falsely fathered on me, I am most certain I never said, wrote, nor thought: For there are many simple seduced papists that are not of your mind. You did not mean to declare my words effectually, neither that the truth of these my arguments should appear, seeing you wrote but fifteen words of that which hardly would be comprehended in fifteen lines: and yet most unchristianly you falsified my saying, thereby to wrest the sense of my words to that, which I me self do know is contrary and false. And to what end have you done this: for sooth because you hate me for telling of truth: you would have your reader despise me, as one that doth lie. You made a fair show with a sentence of Saloman in that first side of your book, that you jesuits are utter enemies to lying, yea and as though there were no such liars as we against whom you wrote, saying, a lying witness shall have an evil end: but I trust the indifferent reader will say that hitherto you have not taken nor proved me with any one lie, though I have too manifestly proved you with so many, that though perhaps it will not make a jesuite blush, it would make a Christian marvelously ashamed. If you sought as much for the favour of God, as you desire the vainglory of the world: you would not use lying, which you seem to despise, nor yet such falsehood which God doth detest. But as your doctrine is diabolical, so are your doings hypocritical. You know what place is prepared for liars well enough, God keep both you and us from it. He that knoweth his masters will and doth it not, shall be beaten with many stripes: than you that bring the Scripture against liars in the first side of your book, and use lying and manifest falsehood so oft in your book, (unless you repent and amend) are not like to be beaten with few stripes. It is easy to perceive whose part you take, for if you took Gods part which is the father of truth, he would guide you in truth: but seeing you take the devils part which is the father of lies, he leads you to lying: therefore if you love God tell the truth, and if you hate the devil, fly falsehood. Thus you have pieced and patched my sayings with your 〈◊〉 rags, and put in and pulled out, chopped and changed, and placed and displaced my words as you thought good, with foisting in of your own words which I never wrote: besides that you have most nakedly and barely without any circumstances or arguments, 〈◊〉 up such a sort of my matters in such a straight room, that is, in 16. of your little short lines, the causes, proofs, and effects whereof, are scantly comprehended in so many of my leaves, 〈◊〉 and without disproving or confuting any part of the same, For other words than mine own by you cut short, or 〈◊〉, or thrust in for mine own, yond alleged none, as here by your words appeareth: for I have written and set down all your whole and very words concerning your deriding and slandering my book hitherto, without diminishing or adding any thing thereunto. Which plainness if you had used with me: you had then written more matter and fewer lies. And when you had shortened my sayings, maimed my method, cut off my conclusions, hid my arguments, falsified my words, and thrust in what you list, to the disabling of me, and discrediting of my book: (more craftily then Christianly) you conclude with these words, This is Lupton's charitable doctrine with many things more which jomitte, and so you end without any more words or further argument: whereby your reader may perceive the truth of your dealing, though you say this is Lupton's charitable doctrine. But how charitable soever it is: your doctrine and doings hither to are not very commendable. The 56. part. ANd now that you have learnedly and cunningly The 56. part. confuted the first and second part of my book, (according to your own account) only with displeasing, leaving out, and curtalling of my words, and foisting in of your own, as before it is manifestly proved: you come to the third part (as you call it) and confutes the same, only with brief reciting of my words, and now and then falsifying the same as you did before, without any one argument of your own for the disproving thereof. Thinking belike that your reader is bound to take all for lies that a jesuite doth recite. Me thinks you have taken a very evil course for the discrediting of my book, for if you are a credible man yourself, (as a jesuite can be none other) if you recite a lie, it will be thought to be true because you have told it: as if a liar chance to tell truth, it will not be believed but be taken for a lie. Now choose you whether you will be counted a credible and a true man, and thereby have my book counted for truth, because my words are recited by you: or else to be a liar, and to have my book taken for false, because you repeat or recite the words thereof. But as hither to I have not left out any one word of yours, touching your confuting of my book, which you call the first and second part: so I will not conceal or hide your words, touching the rest of my book which you call the third part, Whereby the indifferent reader shall perceive, how learnedly a jusuite hath confuted a christian with saying of nothing. But it may be that as lay men's dalliing and kissing of women, must be construed or judged otherwise then priests dalliing and kissing of women, (as before is mentioned) so perhaps the jesuits disproving or confuting, is contrary to the Christians confuting. For as the Christians confute by writing, so the jesuits may confute by thinking, which is a thing necessary for your reader to understand. For though you do not drisproove or confute me by writing, yet he may suppose you have confuted me by thinking. Therefore if the jesuits have that advantage of the Christian: they may easily and quickly confute what so ever is written against them. And surely if you have confuted my book, it must needs be by thinking and not by writing. And now without any falsehood, I will write your own words which you recite as mine, and these are they that follow. Disc. pa. 185. In his third part, he proveth his religion by evident lupton's miracles. pa. 294. and manifest miracles, out of Master Fox his Acts and Monuments, as for example: That one Burton, Bailiff of Crowlande in Lincoln shire, for compelling a curate to say Mass (upon zeal of papistry) in the beginning of Queen Mary's days: was afterwards for his punishment called K. by a crow that flew over his head. And besides that his 〈◊〉 imbrued with the Crows dung, that she let fall upon him, which dung did so A 〈◊〉 fellow that forgot by cutting of his beard to save his life. stink upon his beard, as made him continually to vomit for divers days until he died most miserably. I remember very well that in the 294. page of my said book, I have described a strange example, and a doleful, and miserable end of one Burton Bailiff of Crowlande in Lincoln shire, a hasty procurer and a great defender of the mass in Queen Mary's time, but not altogether uttered in that sort, as here you have reported it: for I said not that he was called R. for his punishment, But though you seem to deride me for writing of it, yet you have not so much as with one word gone about to disprove it, neither have you said that it is false or untrue, for if you could I am sure you would. A strange matter that you would have your Reader to 〈◊〉 my words, and yet do not confute them, nor go about to disprove them. You say he compelled him to say mass upon zeal of Papistry, But I would know who willed him to have such zeal in papistry? Or who willed him to have such a love to the mass, that he should hate his brother that God commanded 〈◊〉 to love, or threat to thrust his dagger in him, unless he would say mass? (which cruel dealing you have left out). Surely it may well belong to the religion of a jesuite: but I am sure it is clean contrary to the religion of a Christian. You call it in the margin lupton's miracle, no it was none of my miracle, it was God's miracle, yea and such a miracle, that if you had the fear and grace of God: you would not so deridingly and contemptuously, writ of the mighty hand and great judgement of God showed therein. You writ also in the margin, a simple fellow that forgot by cutting of his beard to save his life: Either you would have your Reader believe that it was a lie, or that he might have saved his life by cutting of his beard. If it 〈◊〉 a lie, why have you not proved it a lie? And if it were true (as it was very true) do you think that all the cutting or washing of his beard that might be, was able to save save his life whom God did vetermine to bring to his death? no no, it is impossible. If a little sparrow light not on the ground without God's providence: Then the dung Math. 10. of this Crow did not light on the Beard of this Idolatrous massmonger, the enemy of God, without the foreknowledge and appointment of God, to the shortening of his days. If through God's providence Tobias the servant Tobias. of God was made blind through the falling of Swallows dung: then why should we not think like wise, through God's providence, that this Burton the enemy of God, might be brought to his death by the stench of the dung of a Crow falling upon his Beard? But because you have left out some of my words, which manifesteth this Gods miraculous might the more, and hath added something of your own, that diminisheth the credit thereof: I refer the Reader to the very words thereof, written according to truth, in the 294. page of my said book. The 57 part. AFter this you set forth another of my miracles, but how like a miracle it is, or whether I wrote it as a 〈◊〉. part. miracle or to any such end, let the indifferent Reader judge. You leapt two great leaps backward before, But now you have showed your utter most cunning, whereby it seemeth that you exceed all Christians in leaping backward, for you have leapt backward at this one leap 202. pages or sides, and all to fetch out a meet miracle for your purpose. For amongst all the rest of the miracles, where this Burton the massmonger was placed, (and yet of either side of him I am sure there were 〈◊〉 store) you could not find one that would serve your turn. So that if you had left out this miracle, for which you leapt backward so lustily: then lupton's miracle had been utterly marred for lack of company. But to comfort him withal, you have taken this pains to leap so far backward and all to get him a companion. And now I will recite your own words, which you picked out purposely, because they should seem more like lies then the 〈◊〉. And these are your words which you allege as mine. Again (say you) that in king Henry's days, the Earl 〈◊〉. page. 185. of Wiltshire and others going to Rome, as Ambassadors to the Pope, refused to kiss the Pope's foot, when he held pag. 92. it out to them: at what time the Earl's dog (having more devotion to it as he saith than they) not only went and kissed the pope's foot, but also snatched at his great Poor Pope, that had no chamberlain to keep out dogs. toe, * signifying thereby, that it was a part more fit for dogs to kiss then men. Because this my last miracle may seem something dark to the Reader, as you have told the tale, (for if it make for my turn, you had rather put in less than all,) I will now recite mine own miracle & the occasion wherefore I wrote it: whereby your Reader may see how truly you have told my tale, and also what an apt and fit miracle you have found out, to be a companion of the other miracle. But I must tell you this by the way, that there where you picked out this miracle, I talked chief of the pope's pride, and not of any miracles, and therefore the more 〈◊〉 for a miracle, if my matter had any good method. And these are my very words, which show the occasion why I wrote this great miracle of the dogs kissing of the Pope's foot. Pope Adrian saith of himself whatsoever the Emperor Persua. from papistry. hath, he hath it of us, it is in our power to bestow the Empire on whom we list. (It may be so but one may look Pag. 90. all the bible over, ere he can find it). And also the Pope Aventinus in Adriano. hath made it heresy (though Christ did not make it) for a king not to hold his kingdom at his hands, etc. The Pope if we may credit his prerogative, being of his own penning, is of no small power: for he is called Lord of Lords and king of kings, he compelleth Emperors and Princes to swear fealty and obedience to him. Cardinal Zabarella saith: the Pope doth what him Stanislaius Orichovius in Chinera Fol. 97. listeth, yea though it be unlawful, and is more than a god, (you called it lupton's lies before, because I wrote that the Pope was called our Lord God the Pope, but here one of the Popes own Cardinals hath out lied me, for he saith that the Pope is more than a God). And one saith, that a Priest is so much above a king, as a man is above a beast: as much as God is better than a priest, so much is the priest better than a king: he that setteth a king before a priest, setteth the creature before the Creator. By this it appeareth that priests are no small fools. If this be true, than it is no marvel that men were wont to have priests in great estimation and reverence. But I marvel that king josias was so bold to burn such a number of Priests that were so far his Superiors, and that were as far above him, as he himself was above a beast. Truly I think it was because they could not show him their Commissions, belike the left them at home. etc. And now mark I pray you? whether these wicked Popes before mentioned with many other that call themselves Christ's vicar's, are not more like Lucifer the Devil in pride, than Christ the son of God in humility? I think there was never such lordliness or pride in any worldly prince, as hath been in divers of these wicked Popes: for the Pope suffereth the Emperor (which is the chief ruler of all Christendom) to hold his stirrup, to hold his horse by the bridle, to bear his train, and to kiss his feet. Yea and the Emperor was shent of Pope Hildebrand, because he held the left stirrup in steed of the right when he got upon his horse: there was never Emperor nor king, that ever received any such service of any of the pope's. But the Earl of wiltshire, and the other Ambassadors These are the words which you call one of lupton's miracles. from king Henry the eight to the Pope (far inferior to the Emperor) refused to kiss the Pope's foot, though the pope held it out purposely therefore: yet the Earl of wiltshire's dog (having a greater devotion thereto then they) did not only kiss the pope's foot, though thing unmannerly, but also 〈◊〉 at his great toe: Thinking belike, it was more meet to be bitten of dogs than to be kissed of men. Hear is the mighty miracle that youhave made of this matter, was it not worthy to 〈◊〉 fetched so far of, yea and that with such a backward leap? You perceive well enough, (but that you list to deride me, and to delude your Reader) that I wrote not this as one of gods miracles, but as one of the Pope's proud practices neither is it like in any point, to your former tale of the miraculous work and great judgement of God showed on Burton the 〈◊〉 of Crowlande: unless the presumptuous pride of a Pope may be compared to the desperate death of a Papist, & unless a dogs snatching at the Pope's foot, which did him no harm, be like to the dounging of a Crow on a man's face (the Crow fleeing and the man riding) which brought him to his death. You writ in the margin. A poor pope that had no chamberlain to keep out dogs, 〈◊〉 though the office of the Pope's Chamberlain were to whip out dogs. Do you think that an Earl's dog may not come into a Pope's chamber: or that a dog cannot be so lucky, as to have one lick at a pope's foot: What if GOD would have us to understand, that a dog was as meet to kiss the pope's foot: as an owl was fit to be the pope's holy Ghost: Truly Christ washed his Apostles feet, but I never read that they kissed his feet, yet Christ's feet were as well worthy to be kissed as the pope's. Therefore all wise men may well think, that the pope's foot was more meet to be kissed of the Earl of Wiltshire's dog then of himself. And whereas I have neither made this a miracle, neither written it for a miracle, you thought to make it a miracle, by foisting in your own words, which did clean turn and change my sense, for whereas I say, But also snatched at his great toe, thinking belike it was more meet to be bitten of dogs than to be kissed of men: You have written thus, but also snatched at his great toe, signifying thereby that it 〈◊〉 a part more fit for dogs to kiss than men. Thus it is manifest, that you have thrust in signifying thereby, for my words, thinking belike, 〈◊〉 hath so 〈◊〉 and changed my sense and meaning, that it appeareth a miracle by your words, which is, that the dog did signify by his snatching at the Popès great toe, that it was a part more fit for dogs to kiss then men. Therefore it must needs appear a miracle to every one that reads this, as you 〈◊〉 it, for is it not miraculous for a dog to have such divine knowledge, to signify unto the people, wherefore he hath done a thing, & specially such a mystical matter as the kissing of the Pope's foot: Truly you went very far before, when you told the cause why M. Nicols was borne at 〈◊〉 in Wales, and in telling my thought, or what I would have said: but herein you have showed yourself to be of a more deep and profound judgement, in showing the intent and meaning of the Earl of Wiltshire's dog, for you have flatly told, what he did signify by his snatching of the Pope's great toe. Wherefore though you counted this for my miracle, I must confess it is none of mine but yours, for now I perceive a Christian is far unable to compare with a 〈◊〉 in making of miracles. It was happy that you changed my words, and thrust in your own words in their place: or else we had had no miracle of the dogs kissing of that Pope's feet. Now I trust you will mend the word, Miracles, in the margin of your book, and write lupton's Miracle in steed of miracles, for there was but two in all, and one of them of right is returned to yourself. Wishing that you, (because it is not meet you should lack your due praise) to write in the margin against the miraculous story of the Earl of Wiltshire's dog, (The jesuits miracle). The 〈◊〉 miracle. But I muse that you took such pains to leap so far backward for this that is no miracle, and might have, had half a dozen at the least hard by with easily going forward, yea and touching the same matter, and tending to such end, as the miracle of Burton, which you recited before. But because that miracle of Burton (which you call my miracle) hath lost his companion, and is now clean without company, therefore I will place some of his old fellows with him, (which you either saw not or would not see) for that I am loath that he should be without some comfort or company: for you know it is very uncomfortable to stand moping alone, and these be they that follow. One Richard Denton having words of commendations Pers. from papistry. Pag 296. sent to him from one William Woolsey that was after burned for professing of the Gospel: which were, that he marveled that the said Denton tarried so long behind him, seeing he was the first that delivered him the book of the Scriptures into his hand, and told him that it was the truth, desiring him to make haste after as fast as he could. Which Denton said, when the said message was done to him, I confess it is true but alas I cannot burn. But after though he could not burn willingly in Christ's cause: he was burned against his will not in so good a cause. For after that, his house being on fire, he went in to save his goods, and thereby he was burned and lost his life. And thus he was burned for earthly goods: that refused to burn for heavenly treasure. Also one dale a Promoter of the professors of God's Pag. 296. word, (& that helped them forward to the fire) was eaten into his body with lice, and he so died, as it is well known of many. Alexander the keeper of Newgate, a cruel enemy to Pag. 297. them that lay there for this our religion: died very miserably, being so swollen, that he was more like a monster then a man, and was so rotten within, that no man could abide the smell of him. Behold also another miracle of God on the Parson Pag. 297. of Crundall in kent, who upon Shrovesunday, having received the Pope's pardon from Cardinal Poole, came to the Parish Church, and exhorted the people to receive the same, as he had done himself, saying, that he stood now so clear in conscience as when he was first borne, and cared not now if he should die the same hour, in that clearness of conscience. Whereupon he being strucken suddenly by the hand of God, and leaning a little on the one side, immediately shrunk down in the pulpit & so was found dead, speaking not one word more, etc. Behold another strange miracle, which God showed on the proud papistical persecutor Pag. 299. of God's servants in Queen Mary's time, Steeven Gardiner, than Lord chancellor of England, who after so long professing of your papistical doctrine, when there came a Bishop to him on his death bed and put him in remembrance of Peter's denying of his master, he answering again, said, that he had denied with Peter, but never repent with Peter. And so both stinkingly and unrepentantly died. You could not spy this miracle, or else you Pag. 302. thought it would not serve your turn. Here is also an other which if you mark well, is more like a miracle then that that you made of the Earl of Wiltshire's dog. As one james Abbas a professor of the Gospel in Q. Mary's time, was led by the Sheriff to the fire where he was burned at Bury, divers poor people 〈◊〉 in the way and asked their alms, he 〈◊〉 having no money to give them, and desirous yet to distribute something among them: 〈◊〉 pull of all his apparel saving his Shirt, & 〈◊〉 the same unto them, to some one thing, to some another. In the giving whereof he exhorted them to be strong in the Lord, and as faithful followers of Christ, to stand steadfast 〈◊〉 the truth of the Gospel, which he (through God's help) 〈◊〉 then in their sight seal and confirm with his blood. While he was thus charitably occupied and 〈◊〉 instructing the people, a servant of the Sheriffs going by and hearing him, cried out aloud unto them, and blasphemously said, believe him not good people, he is an heretic and a mad man out of his wit, believe him not, for it is heresy that he saith. And as the other continued in his godly 〈◊〉, so did this wicked 〈◊〉 still 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 his blasphemous exclamations, until they came to the stake where he should suffer, unto the which stake this constant Martyr was tied, and in the end cruelly burned. But immediately after the fire was put unto him, the same 〈◊〉 that did rail on him, (saying that he was an heretic and mad) was there presently in the sight of all the people stricken with a frenzy (such was the great struck of God's justice on him for his blasphemous railing) and was then mad in deed, (as he before had charged the martyr with all) who in his furious rage and madness, casting off his shoes withal, and the rest of his clothes, cried out unto the people and said, Thus did james Abbas that true Servant of God, who is saved but I am damned. And thus ran he round about the town of Bury still crying that james Abbas was a good man and saved, but he was damned. The Sheriff then being amazed, caused him to be taken and tied in a dark house, and by force compelled him again to put on his clothes: thinking thereby within a while to bring him to some quietness. But he (all that notwithstanding) as soon as they were gone, continued his former raging and casting off his clothes, and cried as he did before, james Abbas is the servant of God and is saved, but I am damned. At length he was tied in a Cart and brought home to his master's house, and within half a year after, or there abouts (he being at the point of death) the priest of the parish was sent for, who coming to him, brought with him the crucifix, and their 〈◊〉 host of the altar, which gear when the poor wretch saw, he cried out of the priest and defied all that baggage, saying, that the Priest with such other as he was, were the cause of his damnation, and that james Abbas was a good man and saved, And so, shortly after he died. This is something more like a miracle then that of the Earl of Wyltshires' dog. I much marvel that you took such pain to leap such a great leap backward, to make a miracle of a dog, which was no miracle: and might with stepping but a little forward, have found this wonderful and marvelous miracle of a man. But you 〈◊〉 and marvelous miracle of a man. But you perceived full well that though it was a better miracle than the other: yet it would not serve your turn so well as the other. And whereas you 〈◊〉 such a great leap backward, & all to pick out a fantastical miracle out of a dog: you might (but that it liked you not) with one small step forward, have quickly taken a most true and strange miracle out of a Bull, which here I will place as a fit companion of that which you recited of Burton the Bailiff of Crowland. & as it liked you for your pleasure, to put in that, calling it lupton's miracle: so it liketh me for my pleasure to put in this, which I am sure was Gods mighty miracle. And whereas you began the first miracle with a Crow, I will now end the last miracle with a Bull. And thus it followeth. There was a certain godly woman condemned to be burned for Pag. 305. the professing of the Gospel in king Henry the Seventhes time, by one Doctor Whittington the Bishop's Chancellor, which woman was burned in a Town called Cheping sadberte, at whose execution was not only the said doctor Whittington that condemned her, but also a very great number of people. And when she was dead and burned, the people began to turn homeward. It happened in the mean time, as these catholic executors were busy in the 〈◊〉 of this silly Lamb at the towns side, a certain Butcher within the Town, was as busy in slaying of a Bull, which Bull he had fast bound in ropes ready to knock him in the head. But the Butcher (belike not so skilful in his art in killing of beasts, as the papists be in murdering Christians) as he was lifting the Axe to strike the bull, failed in his stroke, & smit a little to low: or else how he did smite I know not, but this was certain, that the Bul something grieved with the stroke, but yet not stricken down, put his strength to the ropes, and broke lose from the Butcher into the street the very same time, as the people were coming in very great press from the burning of the godly woman. Who seeing the Bull coming towards them, and supposing him to be 〈◊〉 (as was none other like) gave way for the Bull, every man shifting for himself as well as he might. Thus the people giving back, and making a lane for the Bull, he passed through all the throng of them, touching neither man, woman, nor child, till he came where the chancellor was. Against whom, the Bull as pricked with a sudden vehemency, ran full but with his homes, and taking him upon the paunch: gored him through and through, and so killed him immediately, carrying his guts, and trailing them with his horns all the 〈◊〉 over, to the great wonder of all them that saw it. Now say you, is not this as likely to be a miracle that the bull killed the chancellor among all this great throng of people, and to hurt none but him: as for the Earl of Wiltshire's dog, to snatch only at the pope's great toe, and at no bodies else? though you jesuits do not take it to be 〈◊〉 yet we Christians are most certain that it is so. And because you shall see the difference between your papistical persecutors, & our persecuted protestāns, I will here put you in mind of a marvelous miracle of one that died for the testimony of the gospel, which is not full five leaves before your mocked miracle of Burton: this is it that followeth, which is worth the marking. A little before the death of one Thomas Hawks that was Pag. 285. burned for the profession of the gospel at a town in Essexe called Coxhall, certain of his friends privily desired that in the mids of the flames he would show them some token, if he could, whereby they might be more certain whether the pain of such burning were so great, that a man might therein keep his mind quiet and patient: which thing he promised them to do. And so secretly between them it was agreed, that if the pain might be suffered, them he should lift up his hands above his head towards heaven, before he gave up the Ghost And when he was brought to the stake to be burned, there mildly & patiently he addressed himself to the fire, having a straight chain cast about his middle: after whose 〈◊〉 prayers made unto god, the fire was set unto him, in the which when he continued long, & when his speech was taken away by violence of the flame, his skin also drawn together, and his fingers consumed with the fire, so that all men had thought certainly he had 〈◊〉 dead, suddenly, & contrary to expectation, the said blessed servant of God (being mindful of his promise before made) reached by his hands burning on a light fire (which was marvelous to behold) over his head to the living God, and with great rejoicing (as it seemed) struck or clapped them three times together. At the sight whereof there followed such an outcry of the people, and especially of them which understood the matter, that the like commonly hath not been heard, and so this blessed servant of God, straight way sinking down into the fire, gave up his Spirit. If you had been as quick a sighted Christian as you were a blind jesuite, and as pure a Protestance as you were a perverse papist, you would have seen this marvelous miracle, and not have overleapt it so far backward. I marvel that you took such pains to leap an hundredth leaves for a false miracle of a dog, and might so easily (and that so nigh at hand) have had a true miracle of a faithful man. Belike it was either to bright for your dim eyes to behold, for that you made such haste to the dumb dog of an Earl: that you had no leisure to stay and behold the Servant of God. Thus if you had been as well willing to make but half a step as it were either backward or forward, as you were of set purpose wilfully bend, to make such an unreasonable leap backward, you might have been easily sped of better & truer miracles then of the Earl of Wyltshires' Dog. But because you thought that (without any further circumstance as you would dress them) the one would be derided and the other discredited: therefore you picked them out of all my whole book for the nonce, and as a godly godfather have given them a name, calling them lupton's miracles. But because I have proved, that of the Earl of Wyltshires' Dog to be a miracle of your own making, therefore from hence forward it shall be called the jesuits miracle. And now seeing you began with the first miracle, I have made an end with the last miracle, hoping you will win as little credit by meddling with my miracles, as you get gain by controlling of the title of my book. Thus you have cunningly confounded my matter, and miracles, only reciting them as it pleaseth you, adding to your own words, and diminishing mine as you thought good, without either disproving or 〈◊〉 them at all, according to your wont order: which you would have your indifferent reader think, to be a sufficient disproving and confuting. But I hope the indifferent reader (not armed with affection) will judge that you have wandered unwisely, and used me unchristianly. The 58. part. ANd than you end (with your supposed or thinking confutation The 58. part. of my book) with these words following. Disc. pa. 186. All these things and many more the like, he proveth out of master Fox his Martirologe, otherwise called Acts & Monuments, tied with long chains in all Churches of England, to be read with devotion. The more like the rest of the miracles be to these, the more I am sure you mislike them. I need not be ashamed to prove them by the book of that learned and godly M. Fore, called Acts and Monuments, for that it is a work of great credit and authority. Which book he hath most diligently & painfully set forth with such knowledge & truth: that you may bark or rail against it, but the learnedest jesuit or papist of you all, shall never be able to disprove, confute or confounded it, do what you can. And though it be but lately set forth and the author thereof yet alive: I have proved before by sufficient arguments, that the things therein, are now as well to be produced, and also to be credited, as though the author were dead a thousand years since. The 59 part. YOu say that it is tied with long chains in all Churches 59 part. of England to be read with devotion. I would that a jesuite were herein no liar. If you had not your popish mass and your other idolatrous service in more Churches in Italy, France, and Spain, & God's word truly preached in all the rest, than we have those books in the Churches of England, the pope's pomp and power would quickly perish, and your romish Church would flourish but a while. As you have continued your course against me, most falsely and untruly, so you have ended the same with a manifest untruth. For I am most assured that every Church in London hath neither the same book tied nor untied, (I wish they had) then can it be thought that every Church in England hath them: I am most certain that no small number that favour your papistical religion here in this realm of england, will think that herein you have waded too far and foully over shot yourself, who must needs witness against you that this same book that you say is tied with long chains in all Churches of England, is not in the Churches where they dwell neither tied nor untied. Before you had some shadow to cover your lies, but you can not shadow this it is so manifest. You said before that I wandered by certain controversies, but as without all wic and learning: but here you have unwisely ended with a lie without any 〈◊〉. It seemeth that you had forgotten the beginning of your book, when you wrote the latter end of your book, for in the first side of your book, you bring a text of Solomon against liars: but in the latter end of your book, without either Scripture or text you play the liar yourself. What a shame is it for you at your first entry to seem to defend truth, and to end your book with such a manifestly? Your own words in the beginning of your discovery do show what you are like to come to, for the latter end of your discovery. For there you say according to Solomon, a lying witness shall have an evil end: then can you look, (making such an apparent lie in the latter end of your book) for a good end. If you were a favourer of the gospel as you are an enemy to the Gospel, you would then frame yourself to speak truth, as now you give yourself, to fable and lie. As the spirit of God doth direct the godly professor of God's word to write truly: so the spirit of Satan procureth the professors of Papistry, to speak or write falsely. And where you say (rather mockingly then modestly) to be read with devotion: A man may read the wise and learned answers, the patient sufferings, and the whippings, scourgings, and tormentings of the godly Gospelers with more devotion, than your Romans that before you wrote of, can whip and scourge themselves for their own offences, yea though they scourge all the blood out of their bodies. And though you jesuits think, that the reading of that most excellent & necessary book, will work small devotion in them that read it: yet we Christians do believe, that you that writ against the truth, falsifying men's writings, and make such manifest lies, do not the same with any godly devotion. I hope we Christians may read master Foxes martyrologue with as great devotion, that expresseth the doings of the Saints of God, that died wrongfully for professing God's word as you jesuits may read your Popish martyrologue of the pope's traitorous Saints that were justly executed for murder and treason. Thus though you thought utterly to defame and discredit me being a Christian: by that time that the indifferent Reader have read this thoroughly, I think you will wiune but small credit though you be a jesuite. The 60. part. YOu speak these words in the knitting up of your said Discovery, As long as there shall be either honest, virtuous, learned, wise, modest, noble, or gentle mind in England, so long shall we gain by these their proceed. You have a very good opinion in your works and writings, for though your cause be never so course, and your writings be never so false: yet by your saying, there is never honest, virtuous, learned, wise, modest, noble nor gentle mind in England, but such as take your cause to be good, and your religion true. And as long as there is any such you shall gain and that by óur writings and proceedings. Then by this your sayings it appeareth, if you chance to lose and we gain by your proceedings: then there is never an honest, virtuous, learned, wise, modest, noble, nor gentle mind in England. This is the definitive sentence of a jesuite, therefore it must needs be true. Wherefore it were best for us to suffer you to gain by our proceed, lest all our honest, virtuous, learned, wise, modest, noble or gentle minds in England vanish quite away out of England, and then were England utterly marred. But if you count your losses with your winnings, I fear at the end of your account, your gain will not be very great, nay it will seem rather that you have lost then won: and so your losing hath made us lose all our honest, wise, and virtuous, Noble men, and Gentle men, wherewith England was wont to flourish when you did gain or win. What a most spiteful saying and an arrogant 〈◊〉 is this of a jesuite 〈◊〉 though there were never an honest, virtuous, learned, wise, modest, noble nor gentle mind in England, that are contrary to your religion, or that will not suffer you to gain by your lying, and to win by your wicked writing. Here in the knitting up you have showed what you are, for as you have proceeded with untruth so you end with falsehood. And as you have run this your race untruly and unchristianly: so you have ended the same most 〈◊〉 and arrogantly. And now for that you have detracted my said book (called a persuasion from papistry) to bring it into such contempt, that thereby it should not be read: though you be a jesuite you may be deceived, for whereas you thought to have blown out the fire, it may be the thereby, you have kindled the flame. For you have so 〈◊〉 me to defend it, that many perceiving hereby how unjustly you have charged me with 〈◊〉: may haply read and peruse it, that otherwise (if you had not been too busy with your pen) should never have heard of it, whereby your doctrine may the more be despised. And thus (as many have done) perhaps you may lose by that you hoped to win. I 〈◊〉 you are fullier answered than you looked for, and more reproved and confuted then your friends would have thought: for your fair show is turned into a foul shadow, your pretended wisdom into manifest folly, & your curious cunning, into counterfeiting & lying: though some (more armed with affection than ruled with reason) have bragged, that your learning is so great, and your said book so true, that the one should seem incomparable, and 〈◊〉 other unreprovable. Not doubting but that they that shall read this my book, written as an answer to you, and in the defence of my said book, called A persuasion from papistry, will not easily be persuaded that my said book which you count so light, and so full of lies, is without all method or matter: which I dedicated and delivered with mine own hands to the most famous learned and merciful princes of the world, whose subject I am, & whom I am most bound under God to obey. And if I were as great a liar as you would fain make me: yet what wise man will think that I durst once presume to line that book with lies, that I gave to her grace? But though you (as it becometh a jesuite) went about as much as in you lay to diseredite me and my said 〈◊〉, and thereby to make me lose the favour of men: yet I (as beseemeth a Christian) wish with all my heart, that you may 〈◊〉 the holy 〈◊〉, and of a false jesuite become a true Christian, whereby you may obtain the favour of God. FINIS. Uirescit vulnere veritas. Imprinted at London at the three Cranes in the vintry by Thomas Dawson, for Thomas Woodcock, dwelling in Paul's Churchyard at the sign of the black Bear. 1582.