Oh read over D. john Bridges/ for it is worthy work: Oranepitome of the first Book/ of that right worshipful volume/ written against the Puritans/ in the defence of the noble clergy/ by as worshipful a priest/ john Bridge's/ Presbyter/ Priest or elder/ doctor of Divillitie/ and Deane of Sarum. Wherein the arguments of the puritans are wisely prevented/ that when they come to answer M. Doctor/ they must needs say some thing that hath been spoken. Compiled for the behoof and overthrow of the unpreaching Parsons/ Fyckers/ and Currats'/ that have lernt their Catechisms/ and are past grace: By the reverend and worthy Martin Marprelat gentleman/ and dedicated by a second Epistle to the Terrible Priests. In this Epitome/ the foresaid Fickers/ etc. are very insufficiently furnished/ with notable inability of most vincible reasons/ to answer the cavil of the puritanes. And lest M. Doctor should think that no man can write without sense but his self/ the senseless titles of the several pages/ and the handling of the matter throughout the Epitome/ show plainly/ that beetleheaded ignorance/ must not live and die with him alone. Printed on the other hand of some of the Priests. Martin Marprelate gentleman/ primate/ and Metropolitan of all the Martins in England. To all the Clergy masters wheresoever/ saith as followeth. WHy my clergy master's/ is it even so with your terribleness? May not a poor gentleman signify his good will unto you by a Letter/ but presently you must put yourselves to the pains and charges/ of calling four Bishops together. john Canterbury/ john London/ Thomas Winchester/ William of Lincoln: and posting over city & country for poor Martin? Why/ his meaning in writing unto you/ was not that you should take the pains to seek for him. Did you think that he did not know where he was himself? Or did you think him to have been clean lost/ that you sought so diligently for him? I thank you brethren/ I can be well though you do not send to know how I do. My mind towards you/ you shall from time to time understand by my pistles. As now/ where you must know/ that I think not well of your dealing with my worship/ and those that have had of my books in their custody. I'll make you rue that dealing of your●/ unless you leave it. I may do it/ for you have broken the conditions of peace between us. I can do it/ for you see how I am favoured of all estates (the puritans only excepted.) I have been entertained at the Court: Every man talks of my worship. Many would gladly receive my books/ if they could tell where to find them. I hope these Courtier● will one day see the cause tried between me and you. I have many sons abroad/ that will solicit my suit. My desire is/ to have the matter tried/ whether your places ought to be tolerated in any Christian commonwealth. I say they ought not: And I say/ john Canterbury and all/ ought to be out of his place. Every Archbishop is a petty Pope/ so is every Lord bishop. You are all the pack of you/ either hirelings or wolves. If you dare answer my reasons/ let me see it done. Otherwise/ I trow/ my friends and sons will see you one day deposed. The Puritans are angry with me/ I mean the puritan preachers. And why? Because I am to open. Because I jest/ I jested/ because I dealt against a worshipful jester. D. Bridges/ whose writings and sermons tend to no other end/ then to make men laugh. I did think that Martin should not have been blamed of the puritans/ for telling the truth openly. For may I not say/ that john of Canterbury is a petty pope/ seeing he is so? You must then bear with my ingramnesse. I am plain/ I must need call a Spade a Spade/ a Pope a Pope. I speak not against him/ as he is a Councillor/ but as he is an Archbishop/ and so Pope of Lambeth. What will the Puritan seek to keep out the Pope of Rome/ and maintain the Pope at Lambeth? Because you will do this/ I will tell the bishop how they shall deal with you. Let them say that the hottest of you/ hath made Martin/ and that the rest of you were consenting there vnto● and so go to our magistrates and say/ lo/ such and such/ of our puritan/ have under the name of Martin written against your laws: and so call you in/ and put you to your oaths whether yond made Martin or no. By this means M. Wiggington/ or such as will refuse to take an oath against the law of the land/ will presently be found to have made Martin by the bishops/ because he cannot be gotten to swear that he made him not: And here is a device to find a hole in the coat of some of you puritanes. In life sort/ to find the Printer/ put every man to his oath/ and find means that Schilders of Middleborough shallbe sworn to/ so that if any refuse to swear/ then he may be thought to be the pri●●ter. But bishops/ let your fatherhoods tell me one thing? May you put men to their oth● against law? Is there any law to force men to accuse themselves? No. Therefore look what this dealing will procure at the length: Even a plain praemunire upon your back/ for urging an oath contrary to statute: which is a piece of the foreign power banished by statute. For the rest that will needs have my books/ and cannot keep them close: I care not how the bishops deal with such open fellows. And bishops/ I would I could make this year 1388. to be the wonderful year/ by removing you all out of England. Martin hath told the truth/ you cannot deny it/ that some of you do injuriously detain true men's goods/ as john of London: And some have accounted the preaching of the word to be heresy/ as john of Canterbury/ etc. All of you are in an unlawful callng/ & no better than a brood of petty Popes. It will be but Folly for you to persecute the Courtier Martin/ until you have cleared yourselves (which you can never do) of the crimes he hath laid to your charge. Alas poor bishop's/ you would feign be hidden in a net I perceive. I will grow to a point with you. Have but a free disputation with the puritans/ for the unlawfulness of your place/ and if you be not ouerthrowen● I will come in/ and do unto you what you think good: for than I will say that you are no Popes. There was the Demonstration of Discipline/ published together with mine Epistles which is a book/ wherein you are challenged by the puritan/ to adventure your Bishopprick● against their lives in disputation. You have gotten a good excuse to be deaff at that challenge/ under colour of seeking for Martin: Your dealing therein is/ but to hold my dish/ whilo I spill my pottage: you defend your legs against Martin strokes/ while the puritans by their Demonstration/ crush the very brain of your Bishopdomes. Answer that book/ and give the puritan● the overthrow by disputation/ or else I see that Martin hath undone you. Be packing bishops/ and keep in the P●●rcivants/ or if you will needs send them abroad to molest good men/ then pay them thei● wages/ and let them not pull it out of poor men's throats like greedy dogs as they do. You strive in vain/ you are laid open already. Friars and Monks were not so bad● they lived in the dark/ you shut your eyes/ lest you should see the light. Archbishop Titus and Timothy/ will never maintain your popish callings. I have pulled off your vizards/ look to yourselves/ for my sons will not see their father thus persecuted at your hands. I will work your woe and overthrow/ I hope: And you are already clean spoiled/ unless you will grant the puritans a free disputation/ and leave your persecuting. Either from country or Court/ M. Martin Marprelate/ will do you hurt. Rhyme doggerel/ Is good enough for bishops I can tell/ And I do much marvel/ If I have not given them such a spell/ As answer it how they cannot tell. Doctor Bridges up and down/ Writeth after this fashowne. The Epitome of the first book/ of this worthy volume/ written by my brother Sarum: Deane john. Sic foeliciter incipit. THe whole volume of M. Deans/ containeth in it/ 16 books besides a large preface/ and an Epistle to the Reader: The Epistle & the preface/ are not above 8. sheets of paper and very little under 7. You may see when men have a gift in writing/ how easy it is for them to daub paper. The complete work (very briefly comprehended in a portable book/ if your horse be not too weak/ of an hundred threescore and twelve sheets/ of good Demie paper) is a confutation of The learned discourse of Ecclesiastical government. This learned discourse/ is a book allowed by all the Puritan preachers in the land/ who would have all the remnants and relics of antichrist dauntehed out of the Church/ and not so much as a Lord B. (no not his grace himself) dumb minister (no not dumb john of London his self) non-resident/ archdeacon/ abbey lubder/ or any such loiterer/ tolerated in our ministery. Insomuch/ as if this strong hold of theirs be overthrown/ ho then all the fat is run to the fire with the puritanes. And therefore hath not the learned & prudent M. Deane dealt very valiantly (how wisely let john Cant. cast his cards and consider) in assaulting this fort of our precise brethren/ which he hath so shaken with good vincible reasons very notably out of reason/ that it hath not one steane in the foundation meare than it had. Trust me truly/ he hath given the cause sicken a wipe in his brick/ and so lamb skinned the fame/ that the cause will be the warmer a good while for it. The reasons that moved him to take this pains was/ that at the first coming out of the Learned Discourse/ the D. in a Sermon of his at Paul's cross/ did not only confute a great part of this book/ but by his said learned sermon/ made many of the puritans relent and distrust their own cause. what cannot a smooth tongue/ and a scholarlike wit bring to pass? 〈◊〉 brother dean ●hat you are ●uch a doer. Some other of the puritans/ in deed/ being more untoward to learn then the rest/ stood stiff in their former opinions/ concerning the government of bishops/ (notwithstanding this sermon of M. doctors) & challenged him for his sermon/ offered him the disputation (yea & the non plus too/ or else I am deceived) here M. dean promised them a large confutation of the Learned discourse/ which in this ●ooke he hath now performed: wherein he hath behaved himself very scholarlike. His style is as smooth as a crabtree cudgel. The lieader cannot choose but have as great delight therein/ as a jacke an Apes hath in a whip: he hath so thumped the cause with cross blows/ that the puritans are like to have a good and a sound cause of it as long as they live. In this one thing I dare prefer him before any that ever wrote: to wit/ that there be not 3. whole periods for every page in the book/ that is not graced with a very fair and visible solacism. O most excellent and surpassing eloquence. He speaketh every thing so fitly to the purpose/ that he never toucheth the matter in question. A rare gift in a learned writer. He hath used such variety of learning/ that very often he hath translated out of one man's writing/ 6. or 7. pages together/ note here a new found manner of bookemaking. And which is more strange/ he bringeth those testimonies for his purpose/ whose very words translated & set down by him/ be as flat against the purpose whereto he bringeth them/ as fire in quality is contrary to water. Had not he a right use of his wits think you/ while they were thus bestowed? Not to stand long in this place of those qualities in him/ whereof before I have made some mention to his praise in the former Epistle. Whatsoever might be for the ornament and furthering of an honest cause/ he hath in this book so defied them all/ that elsewhere you are to seek for them/ for here they are not to be found. Wherein he hath very wisely and prudeutly observed the decorum of the cause in hand. Like lips like Lettuce/ as it is in the proverb. The goodness & honesty of the matter he handled/ required such good & honest proffs as he brought. Let those that handle honest and godly causes/ labour to bring good prooffs and a clear style. Presbyter john defended our Church government which is full of corruptions/ & therefore the style and the prooffs must be of the same nature that the cause is. The priest leaves not so much as the title of the Discourse unexamined. The title forsooth is A learned discourse, etc. A saucy title/ but what saith the learned Bridges unto it. O you know he is good at a stolen jest/ ever since he played my Lord of Winchester's fool in his sermon at Sir Mary's Church in Cambridg/ & therefore he jesteth at the title. I us/ the puritans have nothing to do with that sermon: why should they hit their brother in the teeth therewith? he hath made their betters to laugh at him for his Sermon since that time. And why should he not? for his grace will allow him/ because he is content that bishops should be Lords: he hath subscribed/ weareth a corner cap and a tippet/ & would gladly come to the honour/ to wear that which might make him a lord spiritual/ and if it were a shaven crown/ or a coxcomb/ which his grace his articles would enjoin him to wear/ what hurt could that do unto him? Now I wonder what our brethren will say to this/ that their book is scoffed at/ at the first dash. I am sure their noses can abide no jest. What say they man/ do you make any question of that? I warrant you they will affirm that the author of the Learned Discourse/ and 500 green heads more that are on their side/ within 2. Syllogisms/ would set the dean of Sarum at a flat non plus, and answer his whole work in a threepenie booke● Are they so good at disputing and writing in deed? I hope his Canterburinesse will look to this gear/ and suffer them to have liberty neither to write/ nor to dispute/ the black Ox hath trodden on his foot/ he hath had some trial by woeful experience/ what small credit/ and lesse-gaine there is to be had/ either in writing or disputing with these fellows. To the matter. The state of the whole controversy between my brethren bishops/ and my brethren the puritans/ and so between this worthy doctor/ and these discoursers/ is: whether the external government of the Church of Christ/ be a thing so prescribed by the Lord in the new testament/ as it is not lawful for any man to alter the same/ any more than it was lawful to alter the form of regiment prescribed under the law in the old testament. And see whether if there be any government in the Church (as necessarily there must be/ or else all confusion will ensue) the same must be by those offices and officers alone/ and by no other/ which the Lord hath set down and limited in his word. Or else whether man may alter these offices and officers at his will and pleasure/ and make new offices and officers/ as he may in the civil governments. The puritans say/ that these offices and officers/ which our saviour Christ and his Apostles did ordain/ ●re unchangeable/ and that it is not lawful for any prince to alter them/ no not though the circumstances of times/ places and persons/ should seem in regard of convenience/ to enforce him thereunto. The doctor with all the Lordly priests in the land/ hold the contrary. And swear it to be lawful for the magistrate to ordain what government he will in the Church: yea/ that the Church governors/ contrary to the flat commandment of our saviour Christ/ Luke 22.25.26. may be Lords. And that the Church government prescribed by our Saviour Christ/ and enjoined by the Apostle/ was not immutable/ as the regiment under the law was. In so much as in the opinion of M. Bridges and the rest of the clergy/ Paul was deceived Ephesians the 4.13. in saying that pastors and doctors were to continued in the Church until we all meet together: that is unto the end of the world. Here then is the puritans●●/ for the permanency of this government/ and M doctors no. ● Our brethren (for so of his mere courtesy it pleaseth M. dean to call them/ whom men commonly call puritans and precisians) to make their party good/ propound the cause by a like example after this sort. The sacrifices of the old law (after the building of the temple/ were to be offered Deut. 22.21. only at jerusalem/ by a Levite/ of the li●e of Alia●on 1. king. 8.29. only: unless a prophet extraordinarily ordained it otherwise as 2. chron. 6.5. Nomb. 3.3. levit. 8.9. Eliah did. And the said sacrifices were to be consumed and burned/ only by a fire proceeding from the lord 1. King. 28.32. levit. 9.24. Briefly/ none were to m●ddle with the tabernacle/ or any thing belonging to the service of God/ but the sons Nomb. 3.12.35. of Levi/ whom the Lord appointed for his own service. So that if any sacrifice were offered out of jerusalem/ by any other than a son of Aaron/ consumed by any levit. 30.10. strange fire/ or any service about the Tabernacle Ezek. 44. ●. performed by a stranger/ not appointed by the Lord: then an horrible breath of god's ordinance was committed/ and punished very memorable by the Lord in 2. Sam. 6.7. Nomb. 16.1.35. 〈◊〉 Corah Dathan Abi●am/ & the two hundredth and fifty captains of the Congregation/ who not being of the sons of Aaron/ would needs offer incense before the Lord. In like sort/ Christ jesus ordained/ that when there should be any ministers in his Church/ they should be able to gather together Ephes. 4.12. the saints/ and that those in their proper and limited places/ should be either pastors or doctors. In like sort/ he ordained that some should Acts. 20.17.28. ● 14.23.1. tim. 5 17. titus 1.5. Rom. 12.8. bear rule and oversee the flock with the minister/ and they should be Elders/ that the oversight of the Church treasury/ & the care for the maintenance of the poor should be committed Acts 6.6. rom. 12.8. phil. 1.1. 1. tim. 3.8. unto Deacons/ under which also the widows & Church servants are contained. He farther ordained/ that before these officers should be instituted/ and as it were invested into their offices/ there should be had one examination of their 1. Tim. 5.22. & 3.10. rom. 12.3. fitness to exemte the same/ and their unreprovable Titus 1.6.7. 1. tim. 3.8. & 5.11 life. (And that) their ordination should be Acts. 14.23. & 6.6. 2. tim. 1.6. by imposition of hands/ with fasting and prayer. And by these 4. officers (say our brethren) Pastors/ Doctor's/ Elders and Deacons/ God hath appointed that all matters of the Church/ should be decided & determined. For these officers only (and none else) must have to do with the preaching of the ●ord● administering the sacraments/ making of munsters/ excommunicating/ and administering of all other Church censures and punishments. But as for civil government/ punishment and censures/ they must not meddle with them. Because these things only belongeth to the civil magistrate whose office is not to be usurped by any of the ●●●mer. Thus our brethren set down the whole state of the controversy/ and thus by Scripture they confirm their I/ and overthrow M. doctors no. Perilous fellows I assure yo●. For believe me/ it would put a man to his trumps/ to answer these things sound by scripture again. Well/ M. Deane on the other side/ very stoutly proosteth his no● page 54. Page 54. of his by a conner axiom to begin withal on this manner. A very fit reason to prove the mutability of the Church government. If this Church government, by pastors, doctors, elders and deacons, be necessary, than the Church in some age & place, either had this government, or hath laboured for it. A most true and tried truth/ what then brother Sa●●●●/ do you assume from this true government? ●ay sof● there ●a mass dean/ I trow the puritans will not drive me to make syllogisms in this book. That is no part of mine intent/ for if I had thought they would drive me to such pinches/ I would not have meddled with them. Nay by their leave/ if the assumption or proposition be either more than I can prove/ or be against myself/ I will omit them. Now good doctor send me the measure of thy head/ that I may provide thee a good nightcap. Pardon me I pray ye my master's/ I will set down nothing against myself/ I have brought in a true proposition/ and that is enough for one man/ I think. Let me see what you can say to that. Mine assumption shallbe brought forth at leisure. Is the wind at that door with you brother dean. I perceive you will be of the surer side/ howsoever it goeth. But brethren/ what then say you to M. deans reason? Your answer I know/ may be of 3. sorts. First you may say that the reason is popish. Secondly/ you may demand/ whether it be mid summer Moon with him or no/ because he bringeth in/ a covex proposition/ and assumeth nothing. Can you blame him in so doing: For the assumption must have been either affirmative/ or negative. Now if he had assumed affirmatively/ he had overthrown himself: If negatively/ then you brethren/ would have denied the assumption/ which M. Deane would never have been able to prove. So a man might put himself to a peck of troubles in deed. And this is a point for your learning/ closely to pass by that/ wherewith a man shall have no honesty to deal. Thirdly/ you may grant the proposition to be very true (to what end then did Sarum bring it in) because Geneva/ and other the Helvetian Churches have this government/ and you labour for it. seely fellows/ can you say no more/ then upon them again M. dean/ with your second reason thus concluded/ page 55. with 4. good substantial terms. Page 55. No government is an uniform prescript that cannot be altered, but that which God in his word prescribeth to be such. But the Lord hath not prescribed the Church government to be such, as all things appertaining thereunto, is an uniform prescript that cannot be altered. Therefore the Church government is not an uniform prescript which cannot be altered. Thou knowest not how I love thee for thy wit & learning sake/ brother john (as for thy godliness/ I might carry it in mine eye/ and see never a whit the worse) notwithstanding me thinks your syllogism should have four terms. 1 The Church government. 2 All things belonging to Church government. 3 An uniform prescript/ etc. 4 A government prescribed in the word. And ten to one brother/ you never dreamed to have me● with your brother Martin/ when you wrote this volume. Well seeing we are now c●me together/ let me about this point of Church government/ father mis●erly spur a question unto you. The bishop wonted manner in this controversy/ to run from the consideration of those things that are moral unto things indifferent. Tell me then bethout dissimblation/ what the bishops and you mean/ when the question is concerning Church government/ to run by and by into the controversy of things appertaining to Church government: which for the most part are indifferent/ and not set down in the word/ but left to the discretion of the Church. As though there were no difference between the questions. By what and how many offices and officers/ the Church is to be governed? In what causes it is lawful for church governors to employ themselves: whether it be lawful for one of them to meddle with the office of another? Or for one to do that action wherein the whole Church should be an agent? Whether they may be magistrates & church governors both at one time? As though (I say) there were no difference between these questions which are grounded upon the certain prescript rule of the word that cannot be changed/ and other questions: which although they belong to the service of God/ and the outward government of the Church: yet depend not upon any thing prescribed and exactly set down in the word/ but upon the grounds● of what in regard of the changeable circumstances of time and place may be most comely/ most decent/ most orderly/ and best belonging to edification. Of this latter sort are these points: whether it be most convenient/ that prayer should begin at 8. or 9 of the clock: whether the sermon should continue an hour or an hour and an half: whether the pulpit should be of wood or of stone/ etc. Concerning which/ the word hath expressly set down nothing/ but commanded that all of them should be squared according unto the rule/ let all things be done honestly by order/ and to edification. 1. Cor. 14.40. Now reason with one of our corrupt bishops/ or any other that defend their corruptions/ and say that our Church government is wicked and unlawful/ because it is not expressly. set down in the word. They will by & by demand/ whether any thing belonging to the service of God be lawful/ but that whereof there is express mention made in the word. And whether any thing belonging to Church causes be changeable. As whether it may be lawful for the minister to preach in his gown/ whereas there is no express mention that our Saviour Christ and his Apostles did so? Or whether it may not be lawful for the Church of Geneva to begin his sermon at 8. of the clock/ whereas it may be the Church of Hel●etia beginneth at 9 or at 10. So the worshipful Dean of Lincoln (sometimes unlearned john Whitgift) not being able to deny/ but that the ministers ought to be chosen by ●ayes: demandeth whether women forsooth were not to have a voice in their election or no? And thus all the pack of them run from the matter in controversy/ unto the question of things indifferent. By this means/ thinking they may blear the eyes of men/ if they can bring any cavil/ though never so impertinent to the matter. As who say all men were so ignorant/ unlearned/ & blinded with the world/ as nonresidentes and 〈◊〉. are. I'll besire them to leave this order/ or else they are like to hear of it. And i'll besire you pres ryter. Bridge's/ not to bring four terms in your syllogism again/ for an you do/ it shall cost me the setting on● My brethren the puritans in this place/ it may be/ would grant your syllogism to have but 3. terms in it/ and so would say/ that the words (all things) in the assumption may be 〈◊〉 ambiguous/ for if thereby your worship mean all things appertaining to the circumstances of the outward service of God/ as the hours of prayers/ the number of communicantes in one congregation/ etc. as you set down your meaning to be/ page 56. sect. 3. Then they say your assumption is nothing to the matter in question. The question my masters? why what a question is that? Did not I warn you aforehand/ that M. dean had made a vow/ not to meddle with the question. But if say they● you mean the Church officers and their subjects/ concerning which the controversy is instituted than we deny the assumption. And I warrant you brethren/ he proveth the assumption by 2. reasons/ page 55. First Christ is the owner and governor of his house which is the Church, concerning the inward and spiritual government of the heart. page 55. Therefore he hath not prescribed the outward government thereof, Surely brother john/ I marvel upon what topike place this reason is grounded/ for scripture is not the foundation (you know) of the established government you defend. As though (will M. Bridges say) you are ignorant brother Martin whence I drew this argument. You would make the world believe/ that you know not that I reasoned as my brother London did/ in his H●●●orough of faithful subjects. The bishop of London's book. I tell you/ I drew mine argument from that place whence he drew his/ which you shall find set down/ page 42. of his book (for I am sure M. Marprelat your book hath the pages set down in it/ although the printed book hath them not) O I remember well in deed brother Sarum the place you mean/ and I remember that john Elmars' reason is very like yours. For (saith Elmar) The scripture meddleth with no civil policy, any farther than to teach obedience, therefore it teacheth not what persons should bear rule. And again/ page 44. The ministers office is over the soul, therefore a minister must not reprehend disorders in the civil state. page 47. Paul's commission is to teach obedience, therefore he hath nothing to do to call for a redress of matters in civil policy: yea in this 47. page/ line 19 john of London hath these words/ which to his commendation I will set down as followeth. And this being a great matter of policy (saith he) as it is the greatest (for it containeth the whole) it cannot be within the compass of Paul's commission, and so it followeth, that Paul in this place meant no such matter as they gather, or if he did, he did it without the compass of his commission, etc. Now truly brother Bridges/ I thank you hearty for putting me in mind of this point/ I hope my brother London cannot be offended with us/ for/ quoting him for our authority. I see now it is no marvel though Paul be put to silence within the diocese of London/ for I perceive there is an old grudge between my Lord and him: yet I commend your fatherhood/ better than his Lordship in this point. For in the 57 page of your book/ you allow Paul a larger commission/ where you say/ that the word of God is able to make the civil government perfect: yea, and that the perfection of the civil government, must be out of the word, and in the word inclusively. But for all this/ you must give me leave to doubt how this reason of yours followeth. Christ hath prescribed the inward government/ therefore he hath not prescribed the outward. It may be your second reason will make the matter more clear unto me/ which is in the same page/ & thus framed. Page. 55. We are his Church if we hold fast the confidence of our hope unto the end. Therefore there is no external government of the Church set down in the word. This reason/ to omit what ground it hath in the word/ is very plausible even in nature: is it not think you? A man is a man though he go naked. Therefore by maste● deans reason/ the Lord hath ordained no covering for his nakedness. Again/ a man is a man if he be once born/ though he never eat meat: therefore it is not the ordinance of God he should eat meat. Let our cavilling brethren/ go see now what may be brought to reproach the credit of such inforcible proofs. M. Doc. doubtless will stand to his tackle whatsoever they bring. If they should be so ignorant as to deny the consequent of both these reasons/ they must stay until M. Deane hath read ever his predicables/ & predicaments with friar. Titlemanes' rules/ De inveniendis medijs. v●. until he hath gotten a bishopric/ before he prove either of them. And it may be then to/ that he will prove what they deny/ as master Canterbury hath proved/ that which master Cartwright confuted. In the mean time/ mark how stoutly M. dean goeth forward. Page. 56. And although page 56. he meet by the way with his noun sweet friend Bellarmine's/ a popish writer's distinction/ of agreeable/ and not contrary to the word (the papists affirming all their m●ditions to be agreeable/ and none of them contrary to the word) yet his answer/ page 57 Page 57 to the place of Paul/ 2. Tim. 3.7. is as good and as canonical/ as any of the former reasons/ concluded thus. The place of scripture which doth not deny, but that the civil government, which must be inclusively according to the word, Your consequent is false master Deane. may be elsewhere prescribed then in the word, that place also doth not forbid the Church government to be fetched from some other fountain, than the prescription of the word. But this place 2. Tim. 3.7. doth not deny, but that civil government being a government nor prescribed in the word, may be learned elsewhere, then out of the word, and yet be according to the word. Also it doth not deny but that the church government may be a church government according to the word, which is not therein prescribed. It is a hard matter I tell you/ to conceive all the wisdomnes of this syllogism. For if you mark the proposition very well/ you shall therein find the errors (as M. doctor accounteth them) of Peter and Paul/ very notably overthrown. The one of them calleth 1. Peter 2.13. the civil government/ an human ordinance: the other Ephes. 4.12. rom 12.8. 1. cor. 12.28. affirmeth our saviour Christ to have ordained every minister and Church officer/ that were at any time to be in the Church/ and to have tied the ministry unto two ordinary functions/ of pastors and doctors. But his worship lighting upon william Woodcocks divinity/ putteth in the propositions/ both/ that the Church government is an ordinance of man/ invented and ordained by man/ and also that there may be as many sorts of ministers in the Church (if the magistrate will have it so) as there be degrees of civil officers in a commonwealth. For the Church government is no more prescribed in the word (saith the dean) than the civil government is. You may see then/ how heady and perverse these our brethren are/ that had rather stick unto a poor fisherman and Tentmaker/ Peter and Paul/ in a matter of truth/ then embrace the manifest falsehood of so plain an untruth/ with a fat dean/ and all the brave spiritual Lords in the land. Well far our clergy men yet/ (who being like the priest whereof john of London maketh mention of/ in his foresaid book/ page 32. line 3. Another course at you brother London. that swore by his priesthood/ that if the Trinity were not in his portesse/ he would not believe it) will allow of nothing/ but that which is in the B. of Canterbury's Articles/ be it never so often read in Paul's writings. And I trow M. doctor's reasons following/ will make the puritans stoop unto his grace/ and leave their peevishness/ and running beyond their commission/ after the example of Paul/ in speaking against any established government: yea and a government established by act of parliament. I think my L. of London gave Paul enough/ as we heard before/ for meddling with state matters. And his grace admonisheth the puritan preachers often enough/ that howsoever they have truth of their side: yet they must not run beyond a law/ and without law: if they do/ though they have Peter and Paul to speak for them/ yet by your leave/ he hath in his hand that which will tame them and all their factor's: If the abusing of the high commission & an whole popedom be able to do it. But all this while/ we go not on forward with you brother Sarum. Page ●7. Therefore in the next page/ let us here how you fetch your brethren over the coals with your next reason/ whereof trust me/ I know not/ almost though it were to gain a bishopric/ how I should make a good syllogism/ but I will do my best after this manner. It sufficeth that such orders as are not prescribed in the word/ as things necessary to salvation/ be they civil or ecclesiastical/ be only folded up within those that are prescribed/ and to make them as things expedient to edification/ order and comeliness/ for obedience sake/ although they be none of those things that appertain to any necessity of our salvation/ or to any absolute necessity of our obedience. But such is the Church government as it is not prescribed in the word/ as necessary to salvation/ or of any absolute necessity of our obedience. Therefore it is sufficient that the Church government be only folded up within the things prescribed in the word/ and be of the nature of the things that only belong to edification/ order and comeliness. I was never so afraid in my life that I should not come to an end/ till I had been windless. Do you not see how I pant? Our brethren now are to come to their answer/ Concerning necessary to salvation/ then say they/ we would know brother Bridges/ & thrice learned brother Bridges/ we would know what you mean: whether such a necessity/ as without which/ men cannot be saved. I mean even the same (saith M. dean) as it appeareth page 60. line 21.22. of my book: then we reply that nothing is of this necessity/ but only justifying faith/ and we deny the sacraments to be of this necessity. For the thief on the gallows Luke 23.43. was saved without them. And we think moreover/ that your impiety and ignorance (M. dean) to be outrageous/ and intolerable (say they) in that you go about to teach the holy Ghost what he shall prescribe in the word: because by this proposition of yours/ nothing should be prescribed therein? concerning the sacraments: for they are not there prescribed/ as things necessary to salvation/ in such sort as men cannot be saved without them. But if you meant not this necessity/ then we would know/ if you can tell yourself what you would have/ (forsooth brethren/ a bishopric he would have/ and all such troublesome fellows as you are/ banished the land) Ho yond mean such a necessity/ as every Church is not bound to observe the same order upon their obedience. For example/ you mean that every Church or several congregation in Europe/ professing the truth/ is not bound to have their Church covered with lead/ as the monastery of Sarum is. M. dean/ my friends is not so precise as he think●● it necessary for them to have a sermon upon the Sabbath. For they may lawfully have it covered with slade or tile. You mean that they are not bound every one of them/ to have a sermon upon the wednesday/ for they may lawfully have it upon any other day in the week. That every Church is not bound to have a pulpit 4. foot high/ for they may without sin have one lower or higher/ if expediency & edification require the same. That is even my moaning in deed/ and so ● would/ page 59 (saith M. dean:) That these things should be urged no otherwise, than Paul doth urge them: that is, not placing the perfection of religion in them, or making them orders necessary for the building, but rather for the ornaments of the building, and so squaring them all according unto the rule: Let all be done honestly, and by good order. Is this your meaning (M. doctor) you have spun a fair thread. Can you tell your brother Marprelat with all your learning/ how to decline what is Latin for a goose. Why this every one of your brethren his self will grant to be true/ and they never denied it at any time. But this is not the question. For it is neither concerning Church officer/ office/ or any part of Church government/ whereof the question is instituted: but it is concerning matter of circumstance. Yet (brother john) what do you mean by these contrarieties in this point. For you have heard/ page 59/ you mean by things necessary to salvation/ matters of indifferency: and page 60. line 21/22. you mean an absolute necessity/ without which/ men cannot be saved. Do you think that you can answer men/ by saying that you in deed wrote/ page 79. But D. Perne wrote page 60. the which you had no leisure to oversee. This is a pretty answer/ is it not thinks you? Let me take you again in such a prank/ and i'll ●ourse you/ as you were better to be seeking. Gammer Gurton's needle/ then come within my fingers. And warned M. doctor/ say the puritanes/ we will give you leave to take either of these 2. necessities to be your meaning. If you mean/ as page 59 be necessary to salvation/ then they deny the assumption. And yet they will have one course more at the proposition before they go/ because it came from home: and will bring forth a jesuit/ unless betimes it be had to the house of correction. They say then that you still join with Bellarmine. For in the state of the question/ concerning tradition: He hath the same cavil/ cap. 3. lib. 2. against Calvin/ Luther and Kemnitius/ which you have concerning comdines/ and order in this place/ against your brethren. What a saucy fellow was that Bellarmine/ that must needs publish his work for the Pope/ one just year before you published yours for the Archbishop? Can he not keep it in/ until both your books might be published together. For now these puritans do shake you very shrewdly/ for borrowing popish stuff from Bellarmine/ & overthrowing her majesties supremacy: whereas I am persuaded/ that although Bellarmin had never written/ yet the master that taught him/ would in time have fully instructed you/ in all these points that are forged upon his Anvil. And although (as I think) he saved you a great deal of study/ yet I pray you let D. Perne write unto him/ that he may know his fault/ and you be certified when he writeth again/ that both your books may come forth together. Now if in your assumption (say our brethren) if you mean by necessity to salvation/ that without which men cannot be saved as before: it is true/ that the Church government is not of this necessity/ for in that sense as was said/ the sacraments are not necessary to salvation/ or of a●y absolute necessity unto our obedience. Nay to be no traitor/ no idolater/ no whoremonger/ is not of that absolute necessity to salvation/ but that he may be saved/ which hath been (so th●● now he be none) sometimes an idolater/ etc. If you mean that other necessity/ whereby all they that will have any government in the Church/ are bound to have that only/ and none else which God hath prescribed in the word/ or else transgress that inviolable prescript ordinance of God/ concerning the government of his Church. Then they deny the assumption. Here is a pretty matter/ that one poor syllogism must be thus handled/ I would his worship knew who they were/ that thus deal with him. I hope it should not be long ere 〈…〉 the Pursuivant (as unnatural a sourfaced 〈◊〉/ as en●● was in that office) should trudge for them. They shall be met with one day I doubt not. Page 18. M. dean page 58. showeth very wisely that men must warily take heed how they build (for the Bb. have these 30. years so built/ that they are almost come to dig at the foundation of the Church) le●t velike men should by building after the manner of the Apostles/ overthrow the Monastery of Sarum. And that were pity seeing from thence these natural reasons following have issued. Every thing that is prescribed in the word, containeth in it the perfection of religion. But the Church government doth not contain in it, the perfection of religion. Therefore the Church government is not prescribed in the word. No brother john/ nor baptim neither: For baptim doth not contain the perfection of religion in it/ and therefore as you may wisely conclude/ it is not prescri●●● in the word. We may alter what we will now/ so that the part which we altar/ contain not the perfection of religion in it/ & be agreeable unto my ●. of Cant. articles. For they must be altered in no race. And what reason is it that the Lord● supper should be received under both kinds/ if the civil magistrate and the Church/ will otherwise ordain. For no sacrament containeth in it the perfection of religion: & therefore by M. deans ●r opposition/ the celebration thereof/ is not prescribed in the 〈◊〉. A man might keep good stir in the pulpit/ or in writing/ having but this ground allowed him. And I think of such a preacher as this should be/ john of London spa●●e in his foresaid book/ page 49. line 2. where he describeth his preacher after this manner: that he should be no milksop, no white liuered gentleman, that for the frowning & cloudy countenance of every man in authority, will leave his flock & cry Pecavi. And again/ in this page/ When they come to handigripes, John 〈◊〉 you must knows was a very good with a two hand sword in his youth. they must not only flourish, but they must know their quarter strokes, and the way how to defend their head, & c● Such a pr●cher I say as this/ would quickly with his quarter strokes/ overturn all religion/ & with very good reason/ if dean john's proposition be true/ That every thing which is prescribed in the word/ containeth in it the perfection of religion. Will you have any more of these blows brethren/ then touch them again parson john/ with the second reason in this page. Every thing that is prescribed in the word, is of the substance of the building. The church government is not of the substance of the building. Therefore it is not prescribed in the word. Nothing but pa●alog●●●nes. Sir Bridges/ do you not know before whom you speak? You think now that you play my ●. of Winchester's fool/ do you? Or that you are in the monastery of Sarum among your roaring choristers. I would advise you/ learn this of me: That the Church government is a substantial point of religion. And therefore of the substance of the building. That it is a substantial point/ it appeareth/ because it is included within the commandment which our Saviour Math. 28.19.20 Christ gave unto his Apostles/ when he sent them to build his Church/ commanding them/ not only to teach and baptise all nations (which are the things that you think only to be substantial unto the building (Nay wicked bishops/ will not acknowledge preaching to be of the substance of the building) but also to teach them to observe whatsoever he commanded them. Now he Rom. 12. ●. 1. cor 12. 8.2●. Net. 15.6. Ephes. 4.12. orday as ● he commanded that the church should be governed by these 4. offices/ or else the Apostles would never Acts. 6.6. ●. ●. 14.23. 1. Cor. 23.1. tim. 5.17. ●am. 5.14. have observed them/ and prescribed them unto the Church. Was there nothing wanting unto the building in Greek/ while they wanted Fiders there. Titus. 1.5. If there was not/ why should Titus stay there/ to ordain Fiders in every city? If there was/ what a dunce art thou to deny the Church government salvation/ such a necessity/ as without which men cannot be saved. The next reason is for the golden pen. Either necessary, or unnecessary: But not necessary to salvation. Ergo, unnecessary. Thus M. Doc. carrieth away the matter very clearly. Only he straineth a little courtesy with the Learned Discourse, in putting necessary to salvation/ for appertaining to salvation. You know he that can with a guilty conscience/ have a faculty for two livings/ may as well be dispensed with/ for a lie or two. And I wisse these fellows need not to be so precise of swearing by faith & troth/ and straining out a small lie for a benefit/ they commit groser sins many times. And this M. Do. hath overthrown their whole building in general. Now he cometh to the spoiling of every particular part thereof. But before I come to these points/ I care not inasmuch as there hath been often mention made of my L. of London's book/ between our brother Bridges and me/ if I set down some part of my judgement/ concerning that book. O but M. Martin/ will my brother Bridges say/ will you meddle with that book/ which M. Amar wrote in the defence of her majesties government. Hear is an inde corum person in this speech I know/ for the D. should not give me this warning/ but you know my purpose is to play the dunce after his example. So you will give me and the Bb. just cause to say that you are a seditious fellow/ and one that disliketh of her majesties government. And by this means you will incense many against you/ that otherwise could not but favour your worthiness and learning. I would they durst say/ even any B. of them all say that I dislike her majesties government. I would make poor Bb. of them or I had done with them/ if they should slander me in this sort. And they dare but raise up this slander against me/ I will persecute the whole generation of them/ and make them weary of slandering while they live. Shall they deal with me/ as you do (brother Bridges think you) with Daneus in your book/ whom you bring as an enemy to her majesties government: whereas he by name/ and in manifest words commendeth/ and praiseth very highly her majesties regiment above all others. Or will they deal with me/ as they have done with M. Beza? A horrible Par●●nd an ungodly. confer the English with the latin copy. M. Beza cap. 44. of his Confessions written in Latin/ saith/ that he disliketh their judgements/ who think it unlawful for women to bear rule. This book is translated into English/ but it hath all this point left out in the English copy/ to the end they may (as it is reported) bear her majesty in hand/ that M. Beza is against her regiment/ and so/ that her majesty may be brought in detestation of the Church government which M. Beza favoureth/ as being a Church government that cannot stand with the civil government of women. What say you to this gear Bb. have you dealt well with M. Beza? Deal thus with me an you dare. If you will say that you had no such intent/ as to slander M. Beza/ in leaving out the said point. Then I say that you are enemies unto her majesties government/ in that you will wipe out of a printed/ and a translated book/ that which was written in her defence: especially suffering the rest of the book to be printed. To return to john of London's foresaid book/ I say although he hath therein/ spoken against bishops/ even our bishops now living/ and so against himself/ as being now a B. yet that his book is a carnal and unlearned book/ smelling altogether of earth/ without rhyme/ and without reason. And that his speaking against bishops therein/ was but a snare to catch a bishopric/ as it now appeareth. The particular sentences & marginal notes shallbe set down/ and where I set any note upon your book/ there shallbe an m. for difference sake/ added thereunto. We will begin with your own words unto the Bb. that is unto yourself and your brethren/ page 23. Pag. 23. The Prelates have time of rep●nta●●●s Oh they may thank God (say you) that they have this time to breath them, and bethink them of their naughty and hellish cruelty, and to call daily and hourly for pardon and forgiveness, for let them think, that if they be not punished in this life nor repent: God accounteth their deeds so vile, Note you prelate's. and their ●ults so heinous, that no temporal pains be enough for such offences. And therefore reserveth them to eternal damnation. Oh howl and wail you priests and prelate's, not for the danger you stand in, of losing your bishoprics and benefices, your pride & your pomp, your dignities and honours, your riches and wealth: But for that hell hath opened her mouth wide, and gapeth to swallow you for the shedding of so much innocent blood, for murdering so many martyrs (though this her true in our bishops/ yet let me in steed thereof say/ for imprisoning so many innocents/ and murdering the souls of so many in ignorance) and spoiling Christ's church of so many glistering and glorious ornaments, The Queen deceived by her churchemen commended of all for their learning and discommended of none for their living. Nowa lest any man should think that he writeth these things to popish bishops/ you are to know/ that he wrote them unto such as were bishops in the reign of her majesty/ unto bishop's professing the gospel in name/ but in deed denying the power thereof. And in the next page line 10. he hath these words against those bishop's/ and now against himself. Pag. 24. But Christ knowing the bounds of his office, would not meddle with extern policies, translating of realms, and depriving of true inheritors. Now when he was desired to be arbiter betwixt two brethren: 〈◊〉. 12. he asked not how the plea stood, Spiritual men should not medl● wi●h policies. but who made him an officer? Divines (me thinks) should by this example, not give themselves too much the bridle, and too large a scope, to meddle with matters of policy, as this is, whereupon dependeth, either the welfare or ilfare of the realm. If these two offices, I mean ecclesiastical and civil, be so jumbled together, as it may be lawful for both parties to meddle in both functions, Mark this well you ●haha●● state men. m here can be no quiet, nor well ordered common wealth. Thus the reader may see/ what a pattern of hypocrisy this wicked bishop since he wrote this book/ hath showed himself to be: in taking upon hi●/ not only that calling/ which in his own judgement is unlawful/ but also in joining those two offices together: the coupling whereof/ he confesseth to be joined as well with the most vile disorder/ as with the dangerous disquietness of the common wealth. And yet he hath not here left off speaking against bishops. Therefore/ as before in the Epistle hath been touched/ he dealeth more roundly with than/ page 103 then before/ in these words. Advise to the bishope. Come off you bishops, away with your superfluities, yield up your thousands, be content with your hundreds, as they be in other reformed Churches, where be as great learned men as you are. Let your portion be pristlike, & not prince like. Let the Queen have the rest of your temporalities and other lands, bishop lands. to maintain these wars which you procured, Will you be content Bishop it shallbe so now? m and your mistress left her, and with the rest to build and found schools throughout the realm: that every parish Church may have his preacher, every city his superintendant, to live honestly, In any case/ let there be one minister above the rest of his brethren. m and not pompously, which will never be, unless your lands be dispersed and bestowed upon many, which now feedeth and fatteth but one. Remember that Abimelech, when David in his banishment would have dived with him, 1. Sam. 21. kept such hospitality, that he had no bread in his house to give him out the show bread. Where was all his superfluity to keep your pretenced hospitality? For that is the cause you aleage, why you must have thousands, as though you were commanded to keep hospitality, rather with a thousand, And I would mine Epistoma●●●● were in print/ there should you see that would not like you. m then with a hundred. I would out countryman Wicklieffes book which he wrote, De Ecclesia, were in print, and there should you see, that your wrinches and cavillations be nothing worth. Hitherto you see that this Balaam/ who hath I fear me/ received the wages of unrighteousness/ spoken in general/ as well against the callings of bishops/ and their usurping of civil offices/ as against their pride/ pomp & superfluity. Must not he think you/ have either a most scared/ or a most guilty conscience/ that can find of his heart/ to continue in that calling: yea/ and in the abuse of that calling/ which his own conscience/ if he would but awake it/ telleth him to be unlawful? The Lord give him repentance/ if he belongeth unto him/ or speedily rid his Church of such a scourge. And may not all the former speeches be fitly applied unto him? Is without doubt. But the next he may be thought to have written to himself/ which he hath set down/ page 34. Pag. 34. lin. 15. As if you should say, my L. Lubber of London is a tyrant, Ergo he is no Bishop. I warrant you though he granted you the antecedent, Doth be mean Watson the pure civant trow you m which he can hardly deny, yet he would deny the consequent, or else he would call for wiely Watson to help him. Here brother London/ you have crossed yourself over the costard once in your days. I think you would have spent 3. of the best Elms which you have cut down in Fulham/ and 3. pence halfpenny beside/ that I had never met with your book. But unless you/ and john of Excetor/ with Thomas Winchester/ who have been in times past hypocrites as you have been/ leave off to hinder the word/ and for godly men/ I will make you to be noble and famous bishops for ever. And might not a man well judge yond three to be the desperate Dicks/ which you brother London/ page 29. affirm to be good bishops in England. For to allude unto your own words/ page 28.29. Whereas other bishops in the land/ for the most/ (only john Canterbury excepted) lest they should one day answer for their proceed unto her majesty/ and gain the evil will of the noble men/ and gentlemen that favour the sincerity of the gospel/ will not seem to be such dealers as you 3. are/ though they serve at an inch in their place/ to maintain his grace's pride and cruelty/ to stay the course of the gospel/ and to fetch in men with in the compass of subscription/ yet are they those for the most part/ that will imprison none/ and trouble very few unless it be for fear that if they should tolerate to much/ they should have a check of their worshipful Paltripolitan. But you three/ like furious & senseless brute beasts dread no peril/ look no farther than your feet/ spare none/ but with tooth and nail/ cry out/ down with that side/ that favoureth the gospel so. Fetch them up with pursuivants/ to the Gatehouse/ to the Fleet/ to the Marshalsey/ to the Clinck/ to Newgate/ to the Counter with them. It makes no matter with you (I follow your own words brother London) so you may show yourselves (in show though not in truth) obedient subjects to the Queen/ & disobedient traitors to God and the realm. Thus far I have followed your words/ howbeit I think you are not well pleased with me/ because yo● mean not to stand to any thing you have written. Nay you hold it unlawful now/ for a preacher/ as far as the two tables of the law do reach/ to speak against bishops/ much less any ungodly statute. And yet you say/ page 49. line 7. That preachers must not be afraid to rebuke the proudest, yea kings and Queens, so far forth as the two tables of the law do reach. As we see in Samuel, Nathan, Elias, john Baptist, & many other. They may not stoop to every man's beck, & study to please man more then God. Thus far are your words/ and they are as far from your practise/ as you are from the imitation of these godly examples which you have brought. I see a bishopric hath cooled your courage/ for in those days that you wrote this book/ you would have our parliament to over rule her majesty/ & not to yield an inch unto her of their prileadges. Your words I will set down. Page 53. line 19 In like manner (say you/ page 53.) if the parliament use their privileges the king can ordain nothing without them: The parliament resisted King Henry the 8. if he do, it is his fault in usurping it, and their folly in permitting it: wherefore in my judgement, those that in king Henry the 8. days, would not grant him that his proclamations should have the force of a statute, wear good fathers of their country & worthy of commendation in defending there liberty, etc. I assure you brother john/ you have spoken many things worthy the noting/ and I would our parliament men would mark this action done in King Henry the 8. days/ and follow it in bringing in reformation/ and putting down lord Bishops/ with all other points of superstition: they may in your judgement not only do any thing against their Kings or Queen's mind/ that is behoveful to the honour of god/ and the good of the common wealth/ but even withstand the proceedings of their sovereign. But me thinks you have a palpable error/ in the 48.49 & 50. page of your book/ which is that women are uncapable of the ministery/ not in regard of their sex Women capable of the ministery in regard of thei● sex by the bishop of London's judgement. / but of certain wants and imperfections in their sex/ uz. their want of learning and courage/ so that if a woman should be brought up in learning/ and trained in disputations/ & were not milder in nature then men (of all which wants in women/ you speak page 48) but knew their quarter stroke (which knowledge you require in the minister page 49) then by your reason they might preach in your di●ces: whosoever will read your 50. and 51. pages/ shall find this to be your judgement. Besides all this/ the reader shall find such earthly & carnal stuff in all these pages/ that you must needs give this judgement of the whole book/ surely flesh/ even a lump of mere flesh writ it. For there you shall see the English man preferred before other people: only because he feedeth upon (and hath in his possession plenty of sheep/ Oxen/ kie calves (I keep john Elmars' words) Con●es/ fish/ and where as other nations feed upon roots/ raw herbs/ oil/ grapes/ etc. Page. 110. & 111. Yea we have such plenty of calves in England that we have calves to our bishops. In the last place against the French King he raileth and outrageth in this wife. That Turkish valesius, that French tyrant. Is he a king or a devil, a christian or a Lucifer, that by his cursed confederacy with the turk. Page. 112. line 27. Page 113. line 4. O wicked ca●tife & firebrand of hell, And line 8. O foolish Germans, which conspire not together with the rest of christian princes, to pull out such a traitor to God and his kingdom, by the ears out of France, & hang him against the Sun a drying. The discreet reader of that which hath been spoken/ may apparently see the undiscreet briutishnes that was in you/ even then/ when you were best worthy to be accounted off. And thereby may gather what you are now/ when you have bidden farewell/ not only unto the sincerity of religion/ which than you seemed to embrace/ but even unto all humanity and civil behaviour. And yet you do not thus leave the French king/ but in this page. 113. line 13. You say that the devil hath none of his side now/ but him to maintain both the spiritual & the temporal Antichrist: in the same page/ Wherefore seeing he hath forsaken God, like an Apostata, and sold himself to the devil, etc. And line 27.28. Proud Holophernes. Oh blessed is that man that looseth his life against such a Termagant. Again page 114. line 2. but this julia the Apostata, is named a devils name, Christianissimus. Line 3. And like a traitorous Sarazen is Christ's enemie● Here he leaveth the French king/ and here I leave his book. Now I entreat the reader to consider these things/ that I have set down out of his book/ and judge whether such things as he wrote could proceed from a religious heart: and whether the book be not an offspring proceeding from a lump of earthly flesh. This book is almost all the tokens of Christianity/ that ever he showed. Since the time he became bishop/ he hath been a continual oppressor of the Church of God. His practices against God and his saints/ was the only cause why I have taken this pains with his book/ and he shall be more beholding unto me/ unless he leave his tyranny. But now alas/ alas brother Bridges/ I had forgotten you all this while/ my brother London and I were so busy/ that we scarce thought of you. Why could not you put me in mind that you stayed all the while. But it is no matter/ we will make the quicker dispatch of our business. You shall see I will be the more favourable to you. And let me see how roundly you overturn these puritans/ for you are now to overthrow the several parts of their discipline. Our brethren say/ that our Saviour Christ ordained an holy ministry of men/ for the building of his Church/ and prove the saying by the place of Paul Ephe. 4.11.12. Your mastership 3. manner of ways show the place they allege/ to make nothing for their purpose. First say you/ Paul speaketh of divers functions/ therefore nothing of Ecclesiastical government. This reason brethren is a very sound one/ if you should deny it/ then in deed/ I must think you not to be altogether so leaddenheaded as your brother Bridges. For do you think that a man entreating of the Mayor of London/ the two Shiriffs and their offices/ speaketh by & by of some part of the order & government of the city of London? or of some of the governors of the city. As though my L. Mayor & the two sheriffs were now become to be any of the governors of the city of London/ or their offices any part of that government. Who seethe not by this example/ the folly of our precise brethren's reason evidently declared. The Apostle (say they) speaketh of Apostles/ prophet's/ Evangelists/ pastors/ doctor's/ and their functions (for this M.D. confesseth) therefore he speaketh of some ecclesiastical governors/ and of some part of ecclesiastical government. Apostles/ prophet's/ pastors and doctors/ be church governors with them/ and their office a part of ecclesiastical government. Let them learn/ let them learn simple siginnes as they are/ that the Apostle speaketh in this place/ of ecclesiastical functions/ and not of any part of ecclesiastical government. For so M.D. in this 61. pag compare line 17. with line 22. teacheth us to speak English: making an ecclesiastical function/ to be a thing altogether differing in nature/ from every part of ecclesiastical government. A very proper and pleasant distinction. In the second place/ this testimony brought in by our brethren/ is proved to make nothing to their purpose/ by two reasons. You see that cousenadge is likely within a while to be the steward of my brother Lichefields house. And what abomination umbertie of reasons here be/ to perceede forth one head/ and yet every one fause/ as it is true/ that my good brother Ouerton/ the B. of Lichfield and Coventry/ sold his Chauncellorship at one time/ unto two several men: to wit/ to D. Beacon/ and the good Chancellor/ M. Zacharie Babington. Well parson Bridges his 1. reason is after this sort. That place which showeth gifts and functions to be ordained in the Church/ to the building up of the body of Christ/ in the unity of the faith and knowledge: maketh nothing to prove that there is an ecclesiastical government prescribed in the word. Thou sayest even true parson john. For what hath the functions of pastors/ doctor's/ Apostles/ etc. to do with Church government. A pretty matter/ every beggarly Apostle/ pastor/ doctor/ or Evangelist/ that cannot spend/ no I am sure no● 40. marks yearly/ by all the spiritual living he hath in his hand: must now be a Church governor with our brethren/ & their offices be a part of Church government. Why brethren/ what mean you by this place you have brought? O● you think/ that the Apostle by those functions/ and those persons/ spoken of/ Ephes. 4.12. meaneth that any of them functions should be a Lordlike functiou/ or any of the persons Lord. You say he doth not. No doth not? Then out of your own grant he speaketh nothing of ecclesiastical government and governors. Because every ecclesiastical governor must needs be a Lord/ and so ecclesiastical government/ a lordly government. If this be not true/ ask my brother Bridges. For should God ordain great men/ and great Lords to be rulers in common wealth's/ over whom he hath not so great care as he hath for his Church/ and ordain none but beggarly fellows (not able to spend 200. marks by the year/ nay nor 20. neither) to bear rule in his Church? I grant in deed/ that you brethren puritans/ say the truth as it ought to be/ that bishops or ministers ought not to be Lords in any wise/ either as ministers/ or as civil magistrates. Thus in deed it ought to be/ I and my brethren the Bb. do grant unto you. And you know we would it were so. But you know also that our laws will have Church governors to be Lords/ and what? should our Bishops (good noble men) refuse that which the law would have them to take? Get you the law to be against their lordly callings/ and see whether they will not give over their Lord bishopdomes/ whensoever law compelleth them. And whensoever they give over/ they shall have no cause to thank such envious brethren as you are. Howsoever it be/ you see the Apostle/ speaking of all sorts of ministers/ by your own confession: speaketh nothing of any Lord/ or Lordly government among them all/ and therefore speaketh nothing of Church government. Again/ all those functions whereof the Apostle maketh any mention/ (as my brother Bridges hath well noted) are ordained to the building of the body of Christ/ in the unity of faith and knowledge. Now I would any puritan of you all/ durst say that our Church governors: that is/ our venerable and worshipful Lord bishops/ are ordained of God/ for the building of his body/ which I know you will say to be done by preaching? As though ●. bishop's/ being civil governors should preach. Were it meet (I pray you) to see Steven Gardiner/ being then of the privy Counsel in the pulpit? Counsellors now/ must have something to do with pulpit matters/ must they I pray you? Will you allow that civil governors should be ordinary preachers in your new platform of a reformed Church? I know you will not. And what reason is it then/ that you should require Bb. to be ordinary preachers/ seeing every bishop is a civil governor. I tell you true/ I am so far from thinking/ that bishops ought to be ordinary preachers/ seeing they are civil governors/ that I hold it a sin for them to preach ordinarily. And brethren/ you do not well therefore/ in urging civil governors to preach/ especially seeing you yourselves/ in your platforms/ be against this point. And because it shall be seen that I deal uprightly between you and the P.P. prelate's. I will set down my reason/ & answer it when you can: it shall be concluded I warrant you in mood and figure. But in deed I have invented a new mood of mine own (for I have been a great schoolman in my days) which containeth in it a great mystery. The mystery I will expound/ it may be in a book for the purpose. In the mean time/ if you resort to my son Martin senior/ that worthy wight/ he it may be/ shallbe able to unfold the secrecy thereof. This is the syllogism/ the mood answereth unto Celarent, elder daughter to Barbara, and I will have it called/ Perncanterburikenolde. Perne No civil magistrate can be an ordinary preacher without sin. Ce la rent Canterbury Every Lord Bishop is a civil magistrate. Therefore Ce la rent Kenolde No Lord Bishop can be an ordinary preacher without sin. Ce la rent What say you now brethren/ would you have civil governors (such as our Bishops are) to preach? I hope not. For although I cannot deny/ but some of our bishops are very great breakepulpits/ and have as marvelous raw gifts in preaching/ as any that ever came to Paul's wharff/ yet surely I cannot see what warrant you have to urge civil officers to preach. Wherefore also you do not well/ in crying out against civil governors/ because they preach not/ as though their function were an ecclesiastical function/ or as though you would have any to preach who had not an ecclesiastical function. If you demand then/ whether bishops be Ecclesiastical or civil governors. They themselves say beath/ and ai say brethren/ that for the stopping of your meathes and other causes/ I wad counsel than/ if they wouldhave be ruled bai me/ to be neither nother. Now if yaw demand again/ whether Bishop's sin in being ministers/ seeing they are civil officers/ or in bearing civil offices/ seeing they are ministers. I have already showed that civil officers must be no ministers. And my brother London hath long since affirmed it to be dangerous for the common wealth/ that ministers should be civil governors: and therefore brethren/ to answer this question of yours/ you are to know that I am fully of your brother London's mind/ who saith page 24. line 19 of his Harborough. These 2. offices, I mean the ecclesiastical & civil, be so jumbled together, as it may be lawful for both parties to meddle in both functions, there can be no quiet, nor any well ordered common wealth. Now brethren you must not think the worse of this learned man's judgement/ because he is a Bishop himself, For even since he hath joined these 2. offices together he hath proved his own saying to be true for his part/ in that his whole endeavour hath been ever since he was Bishop/ that we should have no quiet nor any well ordered church or common wealth. I hope by this time you see it plain that Bishop's sin/ both because they are civil governors/ and being civil governors/ because they are bishops. Your 2. reason is/ page .61. line 39 Paul speaketh of these gifts and of this building, and of the orders and ends thereof: therefore he speaketh nothing of ecclesiastical government. This is put home I trow/ and overthroweth the puritans out of all cease. It is altogether as good a reason/ as an old man yielded sometimes to sir Thomas More/ concerning the cause of Goodwin sands/ & the stopping of Sandwich haven: which was/ the Tentertons' steeple was the cause of Goodwin sands. M.D. 2. reason to show that the place of Paul maketh nothing for ecclesiastical government/ is after this sort. Paul in reckoning up these gifts, referreth all to the unity in doctrine of faith, and to the holy conversation of life. Ergo he maketh no mention of Ecclesiastical order of government. That were a pitiful hearing in deed sir/ that the Apostle should speak of ecclesiastical government/ and speak not a word of any lordlike government: that the Apostle should make any mention of ecclesiastical governors/ & not name a Lord among them all. Fie/ fie/ this were too bad/ and my Lord of Canterbury would never abide such scripture. But in good sadness (saith the puritans) presbyter john Bridges/ will this place of Paul prove no part of this government which you oppugn? will it not prove that God hath ordained pastors/ and doctor's/ to continue in his Church unto the world's end? No forsooth will it not quoth the Dean. And I am so far from thinking that God hath ordained your preaching pastors/ and doctor's/ to continue always in his Church/ that I have made a prayer/ pag 655. line 28. of my book (as my brother Martin you know hath noted already) that we might never see that day in England, In the Epistle ●o the terrible Priests. wherein preaching might be had in all places. His grace of Canterbury (I tell you) hath condemned the preaching of the word (as being the only ordinary means to salvation) to be an heresy. This scripture of Paul/ that God hath appointed preaching pastors/ to continue in his Church unto the world's end/ is a chief ground of the former heresy. I will allow of no such scripture I trow/ as may impech the opinion which my ●. of Canterb. conceived of the preaching of the word. You see therefore my friends/ that M. Deane in this point/ will have nothing to do with you/ or Paul's testimony. And you are not ignorant I am sure/ how soon all lords would be out of the ministery/ if we had none in England/ but the pastors spoken of by Paul/ & therefore M. doctor hath prayed against this order. Yea/ and he hath brought such a reason against this your platform of government/ as is just Secundum usum Sarum. For in deed it is popish/ and therefore you might smell it a far off. If the Lord (saith he page 62.) had thought this government needful for his Church, than he would not have suffered his Church to be without the same. But he suffered his Church of a long time to be without this government. Ergo he thought it not needful. Ah craft/ craft/ craft and subtlety/ that can in jest deceive his brethren with a popish reason in this sort. But my master's/ you must not think that our brother Sarum bringeth this in good earnest/ but only to try whether you be so simple/ as you cannot know a popish reason when you see it. And to this purpose/ I think that both his worship/ & john Whitgifts' grace/ have brought in their writings/ many things that are palpable popish/ that they might try/ whether of knowledge/ or of peevish and choleric rashness/ you speak against their government. Now if so be that you could not discern their popish reasons (whereof in deed you shall find great store/ every third reason I warrant you/ in all their books) than they would have this advantage against you/ that you were not able to know truth from popery. For (might they say) we brought in papish reasons of purpose, but silly fellows/ thei● skill is so small in all kind of learning/ that they cannot know a popish reason/ especially if we can face it out with a brag/ that we have old and new writers of our side. Now brethren/ you must not then/ mislike your brother Bridges purpose/ in bringing in this popish syllogism. This I speak/ to the end you should not cry out (as some of you have done) that our bishops have no better warrant for themselves then the pope hath/ for their government. I grant in deed/ that if you should take M. dean at the worst/ you might say that he might herein/ reason as well for the Mass/ as he doth for the established gournement. As for example/ he might thus argue. If the Lord had thought the Mass to have been a false worship of him/ then he would not have suffered it so long to have continued/ where any weak one should be endangered/ of being enforced to be present thereat. But he suffered it to continue a long time/ etc. Therefore he thought it not to be a false worship. I say you must not mistake M. doctor in this sort/ but know that he dealt after the manner of the schools/ wherein it is lawful (as Thomas Cartwright who hath been professor of divinity/ both in Cambridge and in Gene●a/ knoweth well enough) for men to argue/ pró and contrá, as well with/ as against the truth: and all is to try out the truth/ which is only the sole meaning that M.D. hath not at all thought off. But I pray you/ let us pass from hence/ unto the 64. pa. where you shall find the calling of an Archbishop most notably proved/ out of our brethren's own words. Our brethren (●a the cloister master of Sarum) affirm that Paul & Barnabas, ordained presbyters, priests or elders (for thus M.D. to his neverlasting fame/ hath full often in his book/ translated the greek word presbyteros) at Derbe, Iconium and Lystra. Ergo, some of these priests or elders, were ordained over whole towns, some over regions. And what could be more aptly spoken to the purpose/ or more fitly prove an archiepiscopal calling? But truly I think brothe● Bridges that Titus was neither Archbishop nor Dean of Sarum. But the reason following/ proveth it yet more evident/ and that is the ilsample of Archbishop Titus/ whom the D. of divillitie in this 65. page affirmeth to have been Arch. of Crete. Nay good M.D/ not many Archbishopps in the person of Titus I pray you. Titus was an Evangelist/ therefore no Archbishop. Yea saith he/ Titus was a very Archbishopp/ & there is plain scripture to prove it/ which is the subscription of the Epistle to Titus. Whope papist/ say the puritans/ is that become scripture with you? Why M. Beza hath long since proved this to be no scripture/ but an uncertain and false guess/ added by some Scholiast. The reason of Archbishop Titus is no popish reason. You know also that your brother Turrian the jesuit/ bringing in this for Scripture/ was sound confuted by M. Sadel/ and dare you Deane john/ bring this in for Scripture? Yes that I dare (saith he) and prove Titus to have been an Archbishopp/ even by this reason: because Paul gave him the authority to be the ordinary of all the bishops in Crete. And this I prove/ because Crete/ where my Lord Archbishop Titus his grace/ was Primate and Paltripolitane/ had many famous cities in it. This is my very reason/ page 65. line 21. and i'll stand to it. Now M. Fickers/ parson's and currats/ if ever I hard better proof in my life/ I would all dumb dogs were whipped out of the Church. Now truly this is sport alone. But brother parson Bridges/ I pray you tell me/ was there canonical obedience sworn to Archbishopp Titus? What else man. Did they call him my Lord's grace to? Do you doubt of it? Did his gentleman usher go bareheaded before him? As though he could not be as popelike and pontifical/ as my Lord of Canterbury. But I hope a poor hedge priest might have his letters of orders of him/ though he would give no bribes unto his Secretary/ cook/ butler/ etc. Might he so goodman noddy? Then how should his men I pray you be able to live? As though bishops should give their men any wages? Their blessing I trow will serve their men in steed of wages. In page 66. M. doctor demandeth a question/ & that is/ whether one man might not have divers of these offices and gifts which were in the Apostles time. In deed brother parson/ we read of never an Apostle that was a non-resident/ but of one judas/ one Simon Magus/ and one Diotrephes in all that time. The reason belike was/ that men wrought miracles in those days/ which gift the noble Lords of our clergy/ have now bestowed upon their horses. For in the Aposiles time/ a horse usually carried not above one or two men at the most: Or so many Simonical promotion●. whereas you know/ that Master D. Humffrie/ and D. Matthew/ had two horses between them/ that never carried under 14. men/ whensoever their masters were on their backs. And our bishops are so expert in adorning horses with those miraculous gifts/ that they are no sooner on their horse backs/ then presently the horse whereon they ride/ is able to carry as many as either of the 2. former/ beside their boots? 2. or 3. pair of trulling square dice/ and so many pair of cards. Parsou Bridges/ page 68 saith/ there are more gifts and callings then 4. pastors/ doctor's/ elders and deacons remaining/ because saith he/ page 69. the gifts of doing miracles, prophesy, the gifts of healing, divers among the papists have and do enjoy, and especially, the gift of tongues, not attained unto by study, had divers of them, as Anthony, etc. Anthony among the papists/ had the gift of tongues without study: Now what a goodyeare was that Anthony? The god of the pigs trow ye? In deed master D. quoteth no author for his warrant/ he is red you know in the Legend of lies. There is a book of this name/ which M. doctor made no they say. There it is: what have the puritans to do where he found it? Let them answer to it. What if he found it in Hodge his breeches/ seeking for Gammer Gurton's needle? Is the reason worse than the rest of his book/ because it is without authority. As for the matter contained in the 70.71.72. page's/ M. D. confirmeth it by the authority of a puritan writer/ which wrote (as he saith) A fruitful sermon upon the 1. Cor. 12. printed by Robert waldgrave/ 1584. A Sermon upon the 1. Cor. 12. printed by Robert waldgrave: say our brethren/ why there was never any sermon upon that tert/ printed by Robert waldgrave. M. D. belike meaneth the sermon upon Rom. 12. Tush brethren what should you tell us of M.D. meaning/ he meaneth the sermon upon 1. Cor. 12. If you do not believe me/ look the 255. page of his book/ and there you shall see the sermon upon 1. Cor. 12. twice cited. M.D. if he were more beetleheaded than he is/ could not possible miss so often in the naming of the sermon/ upon Rom. 12. which is so commonly known. It may be in deed/ you never saw any sermon extant upon that text: but I warrant you Deane john knoweth the way to Salisbury/ so do not many thousands of you puritans. Why/ you never saw the Syriac Testament translated by junius (for that which is abroad/ was done by Tremelius alone) but M.D. hath quoted junius his Syriack Testament. Why then may he not aswell find a sermon upon 1. Cor 12. printed by Robert waldgrave/ as a Syriac Testament of junius his trauslation? Now say the puritans what a notorious block is this dean/ who inasmuch as he hath heard that M. Tremelius/ and M. junius were joined together in the translation of the Syble/ thinketh therefore that junius translated the Syriack Testament/ which was done by Tremelius only. For shame my masters deal more charitably/ & bear with the infirmities of your brethren. I grant in deed it was M.D. oversight/ in naming junius his Syriac Testament: and the sermon upon 1. Cor. 12. in stead of Rom. 12. But what then/ should you therefore take him up for it/ as though he were the veriest ass in a country. Learned men may easily commit such oversights/ especially quoting authors upon other men's reports/ as M. D. hath done. But it is no marvel that you deal thus with M. dean/ when you dare abuse Antichrist/ and say as the author of the Learned Discourse hath done/ that this government of yours continued in the Church until Antichrist brought in all kind of false doctrine and confusion. For Antichrist/ & against the government of Christ. Nay who there masters mine/ quoth M. dean/ for these be his own words/ take my reason with you/ you slander Antichrist. For If your government had continued in the Church until all kind of false doctrine came in, This is the D. reason in very deed. it had been exercised without interruption until this day (especially until the year 1587. wherein you made this book) For I doubt me whether all kind of false doctrine hath been yet sown. But your government hath been interrupted long since. Therefore you slander antichrist. They slander him in deed/ john O Sarum/ if they say that he brought in all kind of false doctrine. And you have never proved proposition better in your life/ then you have proved this. For any man that will read your book/ or john Whit gifts/ will say that Antichrist brought not in all kind of false doctrine/ if he had/ your book I am sure/ had not been sold for 7. shillings as it is. In the 78. page/ M. D. showeth that the office of Archbishops/ and Lord bishops/ be in nature pastoral/ though in dignity they are of another office and ministery. And what say you to that brethren? Even this say they. In dignity they are pope's/ in office proud prelates/ and in ministery/ plain dumb dogs for the most part. This is proved/ hath been proved/ and will be proved/ to the proudest of the Bishop's teeth/ if they do dispute with us in these points. I would wish you/ my puritan masters/ to keep you well while you are well. It may be you shall answer this sauciness of yours/ to offer disputation to my lords grace/ before the high commissionrs. Master D. hath confuted all the pack of you. In the 82. page/ by a tale or 2. of a Fox tail/ & another of the Ass/ loaden with sponges/ page 83. From the 90. page/ to the end of the book/ he goeth so readily to work about the office of the civil magistrate/ that I marvel that men will not say/ that he deserveth to be cased in a good moatley clockbagg for his labour. In the 93. page/ he proveth that no man ought to direct the magistrate in any thing. Simply I'll be sworn thou ghost simply to work For saith he/ brethren I go plainly/ & simply to work/ he that directeth he governeth. Alas the day brother (cloister master) do the puritans say in deed/ that the magistrate should be directed by any within his own dominions. Belike than if they should find a magistrate out of his way/ they would go about to direct him/ would they? And that in his own dominions to? Why brother Bridges can this stand with the duty of a good subject? Why? He that directeth he governeth. I perceive it is time that such fellows wear looked unto. We should never have done with them I perceive/ if we should still stand answering their absurd fancies. By this time I hope/ they see their folly. They have been sufficiently confuted/ or else let Andrew ambo judge between you/ he is an indifferent man. Doctor Porn● From the 99 page unto the 130. just 31. pages/ at which game O the cards/ D. Redman Archdecon of Canterbury is very good/ beside his rare skill in juggling/ & to the end of this book/ they agree with you in any thing/ that lawfully belongeth to the office of the civil magistrate. How say you now M. country Parsons & Fickers. Are you not by this time able to withstand the cavils of the puritanes. Do you not see upon what good ground our Church government and my I. of Canterbury's chair is bullt? I would you did else. And let the learned reader judge whether other men cannot play the ignorant sots as well as you brother Bridges. Tush/ Tush/ I would not have you claim all the skill/ in barbarisms and Solecisms unto yourself. Other men can behave themselves with commendations that way as well as you/ though in deed not so naturally I grant. Farewell sweet Doctor/ and make much of the courtier Martin. Errata, or faults escaped. 1 wheresoever the prelates are called my Lords/ either in the epistle to the confocatiou house/ or in this Epitome/ take that for a fault. Because they are none of M. Martin's Lords/ neither shall any priest of them all be my Lord. For I tell thee true/ I think foul scorn they should be my Lords/ or the Lords of any of my sons. 2 There is nothing spoken at all/ of that notable hypocrite Scambler/ Bishop of Norwich. Take it for a great fault/ but unless he leave his close dealing against the truth/ i'll bestow a whole book of him. And let the rest of you hypocrites take heed of persecuting. 3 But the greatest fault of all is/ that I could say against our ungodly priests/ but unless they mend/ i'll fully amend this fault/ and I can do it with a small warning. And I would devise them not to persecute men for my worshipes' book as they do.