IMMEDIATE ADDRESS UNTO GOD ALONE.  
First delivered in a Sermon before his MAJESTY at Windsor.  
Since revised and enlarged to a just Treatise of INVOCATION of SAINTS.  
Occasioned by a false imputation of M. ANTONIUS DE DOMINIS upon the Author, RICHARD MOUNTAGV.  
LONDON Printed by William Stansby, for Matthew Lownes and William Barret. 1624.   

TO THE RIGHT REVEREND FATHER IN GOD, AND RIGHT HONOURABLE LORD, JOHN, Lord Bishop of Lincoln, Lord Keeper of the great Seal, of his Majesty's most Honourable Privy Council, Visitor of the Collegiate Churches of Windsor and ●●on.  
Right Reverend in Christ, Right Honourable,  
IT is now three years, and more, that preaching at Windsor, as my course then fell, before his Majesty, I took my Text, Psal. 50.15. which that Sunday was verbum dici in die suo, Read in the public Service of the Church, according to directions in the Book of Common prayer. In Pulpits, and in popular Sermons, I nor like it in others, nor Practise it myself; to meddle much or far with any Point of abstruse, or controverted Divinity. For common capacities, are made and fitted for matter of mean and ordinary apprehension. Preaching is appointed to make men better in practic knowledge; and so was ever used of the Ancients: not acute and subtle for discourse and speculation, which is the ordinary piety of these times. But as than it fell out, such was the Auditory, so extraordinary The words, as they fell in process of handling that Psalm, and of that importment, Call upon me in time of trouble; So direct and plain for address unto God: unto Him alone: for Immediate access without assistance or mediation, I could not well wave the Case of Invocation, Advocation, and Intercession of Saints and Angels, so much persuaded, urged, practised, and abused, in the common use and custom of the present Church of Rome. (And yet not so, as to dwell upon it wholly, or to make it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, altogether.) Concluding it a point of plain folly, if no more, for any man to implore the Help of others, to use Advocates and Assistants unto God, in any exigence, time of need or necessity, who is so directed, counselled, and invited by God himself, to immediate access without mediation, in, Call upon me. Of folly and ridiculous absurdity, as it is by them conceived, taught, and laid down: even by the most learned, judicious, and advised amongst them; though I know, in point of practice and performance, the simple vulgar people, not acquainted with, nor capable of Scholastical niceties, or difference in terms, of Invocation and Advocation, Help original, and derived; go to it down right with direct address indeed, unto flat Impiety against God, and idolatry in their ordinary devotion unto the Creature. I was as Conclusive against this custom, as I could be, as directly opposite unto their Doctrine of Advocation as Contradiction could make me; and yet Right Honourable, I have been vouched, for an Abettor of their practice, at least in part; I am sure, slandered in my Opinion and Preaching. There was present at my Sermon, that infamous Ecebolius of these times, Religion is desultor, Archbishop sometime of Spalata, than Deane of that Church, Marcus Antonius de Dominis. This Man and Runaway from Religion (a man, if any other of his Coat and Calling, apt enough to be circumcised and deny Christ Jesus, if the Grand Signior would but make him chief Mufti, so much would Ambition and Covetousness, his bosom infirmities, sway with Him) in his late impudent, lewd, shameless Recantation, in which he professeth and proclaimeth himself unto the world a Knave in grain, a man of a cauterised Conscience, and prostituted Honesty unto all, even Civil, conversation; as without all modesty, he belly that Church in general, which myself have heard him often publicly and privately commend and admire: As he spareth not Particulars, of most Eminent place: so also, amongst others, hath he belied me; as if I concurred with himself now, in opinion; or avowed that ridiculous Roman Doctrine and Practice of Praying unto Saints and Angels, in time of need. For, He heard with great delight and content, as he saith, one of his then Canons of Windsor, preaching before the King's Majesty, maintain, That there was no cause why every man might not turn himself unto his Angel keeper, and say, Holy Angel keeper, Pray for me. He nameth me not in this passage, I grant, but wrappeth up a certain quendam in general and in doubtful terms. And had I not myself professed, En adsum qui feci, I well and quietly had rested blameless, ●y a nameless aspersion, and left them to guess at random, or shoot at Rovers, who would happily have fastened it otherwhere. But nothing was said, why I should shun the Charge, or divert the Imputation upon any. And because the first notice that ever I had hereof, being from (though at second hand) your Lordship, I could not possess my Soul in patience, without giving your Lordship intimation, how untruly, an aspersion of siding that way, had by him, so lose a Lozel, been cast on that society, whereof himself sometimes had been, and myself am yet, through his Majesty's Grace, a member: the rather, because we have all under his sacred Majesty, especially in Cases of this condition, a Reference unto your Honour, as our Visitor. May your Lordship then be pleased, to take notice of his dealing, conformable to the rest of his leuder actions, in his turne-coating from side to side. He styleth me, One of his Canons of Windsor: as if, for That, my dependence had been upon Him, or myself, and the rest of my Brethren there had been his by appropriation. What the course is in the Court of Rome, I know not, where Places of such quality are bought and sold. But here I am sure, He was but one of us, The fundamental Statutes running thus, De tredecim Canonicis, quorum unus Custos, vel Decanus existat. The Dean, and Prebends there, being no man's Canons, but his Majesties: who by Right Original, is, in his Royal Predecessors, Founder and Patron of that College. Secondly, he doth not bl●sh to write, that he heard me with great delight and content. Whereof He nor was, nor could be capable. For in his own intent and meaning to hear, is to understand and apprehend. This he did not: this he could not do. For I preached in English, unto an English Auditory, though composed then of Royal and Noble presence. English, he might hear; but could not understand, except carptim and sparsim, now and then, here and there a word, or half a sentence. And yet I know he Read, for I was present: and subscribed (he saith since, against his conscience, the more Knave he) to enjoy a good Benefice, for I was a witness thereto, the Articles of 1562. in West-Ilsly Church in Berkshire. But Read I can that which I understand not: Understanding and Reading are two things. And yet, this honest man, as if he had understood my Sermon from point to point, shameth not to say, he heard me. Which chief and thirdly is false for the main. The words, he putteth on me, I profess before God, I spoke not. I nor did, nor do hold the purport of them, Certum & de fide. The most that himself, who must now say, what they at Rome will have him, is this, and no more, Peradventure, or, it is Probable, quòd sic. But that which he did hear and understand is this, for these words I spoke in Latin, not in English, Sed de Angelo custode, fortassis ampliandum. No more, nor fewer words than so, this way. How these words, so spoken, should affect him with such content, I cannot tell. I am sure, and can make good, they are fare enough removed from abetting or maintaining; that ordinary course of Invocation or assistancy of Saints and Angels: even of Angels Guardians, that continually attend us, as fare as resolution is from doubting. But howsoever, I resolved, even instantly upon first notice of this defamation, to say somewhat in the Case. And thereupon, repairing unto my Papers, so soon as I could find any leisure, out of my briefer Notes, for I wrote not my Sermon verbatim, I drew into a form, the substance, I am sure, of all which was then delivered: and enlarged it with much access, of more than I could well deliver, or did speak within the compass of an hour, especially, or rather wholly in that Eristical part and opposition which is inter parts litigantes, about Mediation in Jnuocation. Which I thought it my duty to offer unto the view and censure of your Lordship, in regard of that Reference, which, as a Canon of Windsor, I have unto your Honour, our Visitor. But much rather in respect of private obligation, in consideration of my own particular. For, let the world take notice, if it may concern any, your Honour is He, unto whom, next unto his most sacred Majesty, my most gracious Sovereign and Master, I own more, then to all the world beside, though I confess myself very much obliged unto some of your Lordship's Reverend rank. So that, I could not answer it unto God and Man, if any act of mine, voluntary and direct, should justly give your Lordship any distaste of my carriage or disposition in this kind. And because your Lordship hath been pleased to find so much leisure, even in your manifold distractions diversely, and very great employments every way, both in Church and State, as to read it over, and approve it in your most able judgement, and give it your Honourable warrant to the Press; I could not but make it your own in public, both out of duty and discretion; professing unfeignedly, in the word of a Priest, Fecisti ut vivam & moriar, ingratus. In which Profession, and Protestation I rest, recommending your Honour's long health and happiness, in my daily prayers, as I have good cause, unto God Almighty, and myself unto your Honour's service and devotion  
Most obliged, RI. MOUNTAGV.   

A TREATISE OF THE INVOCATION of SAINTS.  PSAL. 50.15. 
Call upon me in the time of trouble, so I will hear thee, and deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.  
IT is read and remembered, Act. 2.37. that they who were pricked at the heart with S. Peter's Sermon, 
As we use to do it.  being streighted, and not knowing what course to take, do instantly, as men in perplexity use, fall in with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; Men, say they, and Brethren, what shall we do? Thus they make demurs, upon that present exigent, out of customary practice, in course of kind. For so it is: The man that is in misery, will make his moan. He that is distressed, will soon enough complain. Set he never so good a face upon the matter, wittingly, perhaps, at least unawares we may, take it up, dropping from his mouth, What course shall I take? What shall I do?  
In this Case, upon this Quaere, What shall I do? Every man will answer, each man's heart and motion will suggest, and reply: What? but, Sat not still: cast about: look abroad: seek out for some succour, and relief. At least go Call and Cry for help, if that (peradventure) there be any nigh at hand, that will Stay, Consider, Hear, and give Succour in Distress.  
It is not ever usual, nor a common practice with God, 
So it is not without good reason to call for help in time of trouble.  which was sometime afforded extraordinarily by him, Open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it. Or, Stand still, and expect Salvation of the Lord. But the God who at first made us, without our own help or Concurrence, will not Save, nor deliver us, without our own endeavours, and Cooperation.  
Our Creation, and our Being we have from Him alone: who so wisely disposed of us afterward, that in point of Preservation, we are not more passives and dependants. To Deliver, is his Act, in time of trouble: But to Call, and that formerly, is upon our part to be performed first. And indeed, hither Nature addresseth us, in Extremity; as being ever Sui Conserua●ri●s, desirous to preserve our Being in State. And therefore, Live of our own welfare, affecteth our Good, and well Subsisting. Skin for skin, and all that a man hath, will he give for his life, if it be in hazard, was spoken upon no other but this ground. Therefore Sense is apprehensive in extremity. Understanding is quick and operative upon smart, hurt, loss, or danger. The Powers and Faculties of Soul and Body, are as soon summoned so standing ready in precincts, to do their Devoyre, in whatsoever they may, for Ease, Relaxation, Help, Deliverance; if it may be had. David's practice in this point was not particular. He fell upon a common course of kind, When, He called and cried, he looked round about, to see if any would comfort him. Psal. 142.4. If any man cared for his soul. So that, What shall I do, in Time of trouble, is a Case soon resolved of on all hands. What but this, Look up: look about. 
But the question is unto. For Men are not so ready to help, as to pity.  Seek out for succour: Call, and also, Cry for help. But unto Whom shall I go and complain? unto whom with good Success, may I make my moan? or tender my humble Supplication? The best relief to be gotten, or expected, was long since resolved to have been this, Omnes miscerentur. Nemo succurrit. Alas my Brother: God help the man, and the like are Alms, 
Seneca.  and Charity very ordinary, because they run at a low rate, and may largely be conferred without much expense. But it is a matter of greater charge, and cost, to pour Wine, and Oil into wounds. It will stand us in much more than so, to take care with the Samaritane for recurring, of the languishing wounded man; if he lie upon our hands for his recovery.  
We have heard of, no doubt, and sometime commiserated peradventure, his complaint, who in the anguish of his agonized soul, and in the sore extremities of his unknown pains, had cause enough to lament his own, not to be expressed Case and Sorrows thus, Have you no regard, O all you that pass by the way, Lament. 1.12. As being disrepected; not regarded, much less comforted, of those, who saw with their eyes, which remorslesly, they slighted over in their affections. David in the days of his endurance, though, he Called and Cried too, as himself professeth: though, he looked upon his right hand, and upon his left; yet, if we believe his one relation, found no place to fly unto: and no man cared for his Soul, Psal. 142.4. We are commonly to seek, and unresolued upon this Quere, Unto whom shall I make my supplication? 
And tha● in a 〈…〉 respect.   
The Resolution herein is not easy: For two Respects. First, for disability, of Power to perform. Men cannot do Evermore what they would do, their means are not answerable unto the good wills and desires. 
As not able. As not willing.   
Secondly, for Disproportion, in the will unto hability: Few are so well disposed as to do what they can. For there is, if not, a Lion in the way: yet a Reason of profit to withstand. It will Cost more to Succour, then to Commiserate. Agar for examples sake, would with all her Heart have relieved Ishmael; being ready to Die for want of drink, Gen. 21.15. Motherly Compassion did whatsoever was to be done for the Child: yet the poor woman wanted to relieve him. The Case was otherwise with the Priest and Levite, both of them might, it was in their Power, have showed more Mercy unto the wounded man, had their good Inclination been as well fitted, as their means and ability were consorted. Gallio Deputy of Achaia, could have taught the jews, with authority, better manners; and freed Sosthenes from their outrageousness. But his affection was not at all that way. Gallio cared not what they did, Acts 18.17. If Will or Power, or both be wanting, we may long look and hope, and Call, and Cry, for help, but all in vain, Non est, qui curet, None are nigh, to take notice of our Case or endurance.  
Now I would be loath in Deliquio, 
Therefore, specially in time of trouble, it is good to find out some other upon whom to Call.  when my Life is fleeting: when Soul and Body, scarce can hold together, at such a time, in such a pinch, 〈◊〉 place of Bezoar water, Aquavitae, or some such infusion to revive the spirits, have only cold water cast upon my face, which may wet the surface, not relieve the trance. So upon an exigent of extremity, Court holy water is but small comfort refreshing, the which, but activated with Aurum potabile, worketh scarce somewhat, without that ingredient, no great effect at all. I would be loath, being to leap a Ditch for my Life, rely myself upon a broken Pole, a rotten Stay, a Reed of Egypt, which not only faileth, and layeth me in the Ditch, but the dishivered splinters run into my hands, and wound me sore. I would be loath being naked, cold, hungry, to meet with no better repast and refreshing, then, Depart in peace; be warmed; be filled: and yet▪ nor meat, nor drink, nor clothing given me. The Alms and Charity of the Hypocrite, james 2.16. Miserable Comforters are all these: as good, no better, than johs' friends. Therefore in Extremity, when my life is at a lift, or my state set upon a desperate Cast, I will hold him my very friend indeed, and acknowledge his Benefit with grateful recognition of his Love and Kindship, who not only, doth afford me, the help he can Himself, and cometh to the rescue with all his Power and Possibility: But him also, that adviseth, or addresseth me, when I may be sure not to fail of assistance in time of need: to meet with the man, That both Can and Will relieve me. When, He that hath Power, doth not want Good will, his Client, his Petitioner in distress, needeth not at all despair, or be much dismayed, for Non caret effectu quod voluere duo. He is sure to be heard, if these two conspire, and to be delivered in the Day of trouble. But such a Friend is not every where to be found like good Corn cast into bad ground, Thick swoon, but thin come up: Nor can every man tell who, or where is Herald  
I have seen a man sometime near drowning, and ready to sink under the water, 
And better to use one sure means, then to try a great many uncertain.  catch at every Bulrush that swimmeth by: lay hold on each Sedge or Reed that groweth in, or floateth on, the water willing to save by any means, if it might be, his life, yet not knowing how or in what sort to assure it. In Extremities and Exigences, so it falleth out, men multiply devices many ways: have many projects in hand, and purposes in mind, and also peradventure sundry assays on foot? We have read in the Prophet of some that, Sacrifice unto their Nets: of others that, Dig Pits as deep as Hell. Many make friends of the wicked Mammon. And, By our own tongues, say diverse, we will prevail. Some put their trust in Princes, the Sons of men: Run to Physicians for their health. Thank Tobacco happily for their Life: the Prince in State, for their Livelihood and their means. Great men and such, as sway with authority, need seek for no supportance otherwhere. For they like to a boisterous whirlwind, bear all before them, and carry down whatsoever they undertake. As for that, s●r● defence indeed, The name of the Lord, unto the Righteous, it cometh very seldom within the Verge of their thoughts; much less to the Centre of their Actions themselves being a long from God in Life and Conversation: and therefore running Circular, up and down, into many Imaginations and speculations what to do.  
But see the difference in event, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The Fox had many ways to escape, the Cat but one way and no more. In effect it is that resolution in the Proverbes, The riches of the Rich man are his confidence: But the name of the Lord is a sure defence indeed, the Righteous runneth thither and is safe. The Case was once, as is imagined, That the Cat and Fox were in deep discourse, which way best to make escape when the hunt was up. Reynard discoursed of this and that. For he had devices his Budget full. The Cat had but one way, but it was a sure one, and worth, in Conclusion, all his plots and policies, to climb a Tree, or get up into an House, which stood her in good stead when Reynard failed. As they stood thus discoursing, they heard the Cry, the Dogs came up hot upon the scent: The Cat lightly leapt into a Tree and escaped: the Fox was caught and torn in pieces, for all his policies: None of his devices stood him then in stead.  

This uncertainty in all humane things.  We read in the Prophets much to this purpose. Their turning of devices prosper not, Are they not esteemed as the Potter's clay? Into the Pits which they dig, themselves are fallen. Their Nets are broken: the Birds escaped upon the wing: Nay, oftentime it cometh to pass, that the Fowler is caught in his own snares. Their tongues taught to talk at random against God, cleave, at most need, unto the roof of their mouths. Riches and Princes fail both at a pinch: and Friends run away in the time of trouble. All humane abets, are well compared unto Summer Brooks and water courses in the Wilderness: dry without water in time of drought and extremity, running over in Winter, when water needeth not. The Travellers to Tema, were deceived in their hopes: the Caravans of Sheba in their expectations: finding no water there to drink, died with thirst in the Land of Desolation. He said well, that had seen much in his time, and was as Potent as any in his days: An Horse is but a vain thing to save a man: and to deliver by his great strength. Who professed again to purpose upon his own particular, I will not trust in my Bow, It is not any Sword that shall help me. And semblably gave counsel, to the well advised, Put not your trust in Princes, nor in any child of man: For why; there is no help in them. Samson, we read was surprised when his great strength failed him The Riches and Wisdom of King Solomon, could not secure the state of Rehoboam, nor yet free his own times from some troubles. Achitophel's Head-piece, so working and practic, brought his neck unto the halter. Aman that great Minion of the Persian Monarch, was disfauo●rited in a moment: and yet lifted up to look higher than he did before. In the use and custom of the World, Reason of state for common course of management, calleth Reason of Religion unto Counsel seldom: as if God were not interessed in the affairs of men, but stood and beheld, what, and not wherefore, a fare off. But yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, at a pinch indeed, the profoundest Politician is often at a stand: 
In God it is not.  the greatest States man is to seek, and at a loss: there is No help for him but in his God. God must stand in procinctu: put himself into the breach, and come on lustily to the rescue, or else 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, 
For two reasons.  What shall we do? for all is lost. Therefore, Call upon him, have address to his assistance in time of Trouble.  
For first he is of Power, to make good his party, against the Devil and all the World beside: Who hath resisted the will of the Lord? 
His power.  Who can stand with Him? or stand before Him? much less can any stand against Him, or hinder his purposes to take effect. As he is Elshadai, The Almighty, the Lord and commander of both Heaven and Earth. So is He Emanuel, God with us also: Our God of old; the God of our Fathers, and of their Children. And from Him Our God, Compassion doth plentifully flow. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉▪ where these two concur, a man may set up his rest, and, ne quid ultra, for assurance rest contented.  
Now of his Power there is no Question, but He Can. No Christian: no reasonable humane Creature, doth doubt of this, or make scruple of it, that the God, and Lord of all things is Almighty. But assure me he will do it, and then I rest assecured: 
His willingness.  Power and will both concurring in One, give full resolution to all doubts, and satisfaction, which any way arise for point of performance. Let me have his Promise that He will, and I rest secured for Performance. God is not a man that He should lie, nor as the Son of man that He should alter the thing that is gone out of his lips.  
And we have his Promise, 
Who hath promised to hear  That faithful God and true: I will hear and deliver thee. To Hear, is to Regard, in God's Dialect and phrase of speech both ascendendo, 
In whose Dialect to hear i● to regard.  from Earth to Heaven in due Obedience, when man is to do what God will have him, as Hear my Law O my People: Psal. 78.1. In effect, the same with that which followeth, Incline thine Ears unto the words of my mouth; As also Descendendo, from Heaven to Earth, The Lord hear thee in the day of Trouble: the same with that which followeth by Interpretation. The name of the God of jacob defend thee. So at Present, in this passage it is instanced here, and per omnia in effect the same. He maketh no stop, at, I will hear: 
And who joineth hearing & delivering so close together.  but cometh in instantly with, And deliver thee. Accept both thy Person and Petition. In gracious Acceptance, Hear and Regard: In real Performance, Deliver thee. First so: then thus: For Pity must go before Performance. It is impossible for any to regard: that heareth him not Cal, or Cry, Sue, Petition, or make his case known, whom He doth regard: and Delivereth, upon regard. Upon regard had, assistance doth ensue. For Pity runneth soon in gentle heart. Can God behold us, his, in Misery & heaviness, and not soon compassionate our distress. This Text is to the contrary most pregnant, if we were once resolved of the Parties therein, Me and Thee, which indeed, are Indefinite, no way determined: and so we may ask the Eunuch's question, Of whom speaketh the Prophet in this place?  

Ye●, before we call it is good to be resolved of both the parties, Me, and Thee.  Ask we may; but if we will be soon resolved, of that doubt and scruple from the Text. For though the Parties interessed, Me and Thee, are not expressed directly in the passage, they are necessarily inferred from the premises, and so concluded to be no other, than the Creator and Creature; God and Man whom God hath made; The Lord and his people whom he hath redeemed. And that this intercourse and Negotiation, for so it is, and seemeth to be, is betwixt these two, Me, and Thee, appeareth by Collation of ver. 7. 
Which refer to the eventh Verse.  Hear, O my people, and I will speak, I myself will testify against thee, O Israel: for I am God, even thy God. There first beginneth this Commerce to be set on foot, and here they hold on in the same terms. So that the Premises considered, it cannot be questioned, but that To Call, in time of trouble: to Hear and deliver out of Distress, are actions interchanged, betwixt God and his Chosen, Me and Thee.  
We believe an honest man upon his word; 
All these things being considered, we may take it upon his word, that Hear and Deliver will follow one another.  such a man's Word, sooner than some man's Bond; and shall we make doubt of the God of Truth? Him, so Righteous in all his ways: so holy in all his works? Challenge him who can for breach of Promise, for forgetting his Covenant and stipulation. He made a Covenant with Abraham, for Himself, his Seed. Ero Deus tuus, & seminis tui. And did he not renew it unto Isaac for a Law: and confirm it unto jacob for an everlasting Testament? Because he said in his Holiness, I will not fail David: Are we not often put in mind what things, how great he did for David's sake? Is it not yet upon record, to stand for ever, that they were The sure mercies of David. Whom he loveth once, he loveth everlastingly on his part; his Gifts and Promises, are all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 without Repentance, as much as appertaineth unto Him. If man break not Covenant in, Thou shalt be my People; God will not fail on his part, I will be thy God, and the God of thy seed.  
Men so interessed, are most what, 
It hath been the confidence of all the faithful so to take it.  many of them, well persuaded for the point. It was a strong Confidence & strange resolution of some, Psalm. 46.2. We will not fear though the Earth be moved, and the Hills be carried into the midst of the Sea. In effect, though the Fabric of the World be out of frame; though Heaven and Earth, and all those mother Elements of the World, be blended, shaken, and upon point of dissipation; Why? Upon what ground are they so confident? The Lord of Hosts, this is the reason, is with us, the God of jacob, is our refuge. The Lord of Hosts: Who can resist him? The God of jacob; who need doubt of him. God Almighty, can do what he will: God of jacob, will do what he can. Answerable to his promise of old, Ero Deus tuus, & seminis tui, Thy God I am, and the God of thy seed after thee for ever. Our God now, this is their resolution, As our Father's God, in time of old. At hand to help us, in time of trouble, as he hath been Good and gracious unto all our Kin. He that is I am: can not become, I have been, or I will be hereafter. Therefore Verse 7. as in Propriety, I am God; so in Appropriation, I am thy God. Mine and Thine are possessive Relatives, each hath deep interest in other. So that, My God, thou art Holy: my Soul, thou art happy, in having so good a God, as is our God, so ready, so willing to do thee good.  
To come home to the purpose; He that can divert or prevent a mischief, will not sit still and look on in the ruin of his house, nor irrelentlesly see the desolation of those, who are indeed, & are called, Psalm. 83.3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the hidden, secret, the received once of God, nor the utter destruction of his dearest friends. The Devil indeed will no doubt, antiquum obtinere, suggest in extremity to dismay and drive us into despair, There is no help for him in his God. But Loquitur è proprijs: who bade him say so, or put this word into his mouth? God never did it: He speaketh it only of himself: and himself, was a Liar from the beginning. Absit enim ut credat aliquis, cuilibet minimo quicquam d●futurum in confession nominis constituto. Believe not him therefore, who is the Father of lies. Believe his word rather, who is truth itself; who keepeth his promise better than Princes do, and could never yet be challenged for non performance of what he had said. Believe his Promise, I will hear and deliver, who is and continueth Truth itself for ever: and could not yet be challenged for non performance.  
Believe his Promise, and for farther assurance, 
And it may be further persuaded by his extraordinary affection unto his.  take in by the way the dear affection he beareth unto His own: the Party interessed; more than ordinary, because themselves are more than of the common sort, Diliguntur alieni, this is the ascent of Love, magis proximi: maximè proprij. Which is Transcendent, because it is Gods. For Perfect are the works of the mighty God, intimated to us, as we can conceive of them, at some extent indeed, though not their own largeness, only thus Far, and to this End, that we may perceive how they do excel; Deus su●● Nobi● nostra ●alutis amorem significaturus, saith Chrisostome, gallinarum charitatem, Patrum curam, matris affectum, sponsi amore●● praesefert; which are the greatest affections named amongst men. Non quia tentum duntaxatam●t, but because we do not usually apprehend or conceive, any greater instances of Love then these. Can we imagine greater, yet would his surmount; as exceeding in proportion whatsoever is, or is named great. For as the man is, such is his strength, as is the agent such the action. The greatest and largest sized Love on Earth, is the affection of a Mother to the Son of her Womb. Can a mother forget her child, saith God, and not have compassion upon that Son of her womb? Natural affection, in tenderness of compassion, and emboweled pity will say no. She cannot▪ But were it possible; could she do so; yet would not I forget you, saith the Lord. The Reason is not only from his being Great, that he is Paramount in all Perfections, by himself communicated to his Creatures; as having and enjoying that without measure, which in measure proportioned he hath imparted unto us: But also and rather, quia Nos ●mamus necessario. If we Love, it is because we cannot choose but do so; and often know no reason why we do so, or should do so. Necessity causeth us to do as we do▪ either that of Nature, or Conveniency. But de merâ voluntate diligit Deus, There is no other mover of Him, than his Will. Mere gracious goodness in Himself, without motive on our part maketh him for to do as he doth, being disposed to do good. Motus à se misericordiam facit, à Nobis motus facit iustitiam. In no case let it once be imagined of man, that God hath now at last forgotten to be gracious, or shut up his loving kindness in displeasure. Make no question, he hath not, but is the same he was ever. His Promise is past and upon record, I will hear thee and deliver thee. And his words and meaning ever went together. Had he not purposed and fully resolved, To hear and Deliver in Time of Trouble: He would never have Invited us to Call: nor Directed us to Call on me. For what, and to whom, we had been yet to seek: left to follow, and to wander in our own ways: and take us to our own Imaginations: and then by all likelihood and probability we had balked the right way, 
Otherwise our address had rather been to some other.  not fallen upon Him, who is willing and able only to relieve us. Rather had our address been unto Any other, then unto Him: and that principally in two regards; for Disproportion, 
And that in two regards.  then for Disaffection betwixt Me and Thee, God and Man, to which two, add Ignorance to know and to understand what is for our good, and avail in the day of trouble. Which like the three destroying bands of the Philistines, 1. Sam. 13.17. consume all good endeavours in the Land.  
I may well say, Invited, nor directed: for so it is; 
But contrariwise it is only unto him. By way of direction.  Call upon me, as addressed from God, as it stands in this passage considered here, is indeed by way of Direction and Invitation. Consider Me, in respect of Thee alone, and go no farther than Inuoca me, Call upon me, that is, reflect upon the Sovereign command God hath over man: the necessa●●● dependence, man hath upon God, in Esse simply to have his Being: and in Bene esse also, all Good things from him, so Call upon me is a strict injunction, ab Imperio: no gentle Invitation, à Consilio. 
Nay by way of command indispensible at all 〈◊〉.  A precept tendered under that high commanding form, Do this and live, the style of the statutes of the Lord of Hosts, in which all those eternal moral Duties are tendered, which bind us semper habitually, albeit not ad semper Actually. 
Specially, if by Calling upon God, we understand the worship of God.  So conceived, and so understood, Call upon me, is Honour me, Worship me, Fear my name▪ Love, serve, and obey me. So, How shall they call on him whom they have not known, is, how shall they serve and worship Him as they ought? And this is a Duty indispensable, at all times, not that of trouble alone: An Honourable respect incommunicable not to be imparted unto any Creature: not to be suspended at our pleasure. Thus, in all places, at all times, upon all Occasions, Call upon me, by way of eternal Obligation. And in this sense and meaning, upon None but Me. Such Honour is due unto God alone.  
It is confessed upon all hands, by the parties divided in point of Piety, that This Honour is God's peculiar due. Latria, is for none but only God. That as Author original of Deliverance▪ that as Donor of every good gift indeed, God is alone to be called on, he will not part stakes with any other. 
But here the passa●● 〈…〉, and so rather a kind Invitation.  Had he stayed here at, Call upon Me, and gone no farther, I would have resolved it a strict Injunction of a moral and eternally binding Duty: But because the Passage is of larger extent, and taketh in withal, The time of trouble, I suppose it a tendry of kindness rather, a Gentle Invitation, to come and Call: with a needful Direction, upon Me.  
The time of trouble is not every Day. 
For it takes in withal the time of trouble, which is not every day.  A day of Compunction, Psal. 69.18. and therefore also, of Anguish, and Coarctation, Esay 37.3. A day of darkness and of blackness, joel 2.2. Fire, sword, storm, tempest: waters, many, raging, deep and roaring. Threatened, imminent, pressing oppressing, overwhelming and sweeping desolations. When ab intra from within, as great or greater, do add unto the bitterness of that Day, and agrandise the heavy weight of trouble. When friends are fare off: Consolation not near: Counsel is to seek: Invention at a stand. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉▪ Thyself and Thine at point to perish, to be utterly undone and cast away for ever, Then, at that time, in This day of trouble call upon me, and I will hear. As much as kindest kindness can offer.  
So we are directed to inform us first, 
And this direction may well amend our ignorance.  and amend us in our Ignorance and want of Direction, that are much to seek, and naturally instantly have address unto quò me vertam, What shall I do? which is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the voice of amazed admiration: but properly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the word of one at gaze and at a stand; not knowing what to do, how to resolve, which way to take, or turn himself in those straits. Ignorance of good, of right, of behoof, is the Natural disease of the soul of man: even since that great Light of supernatural Grace, from the Sun of Righteousness, then vertical in man the little World, was utterly extinct in the fall of Adam. Ignorance since then, is the Cause of those Curses which we endure or incur, in the course of our Life any way. Had not Samson lost his Eyes, he had not left his Life so, with the price of his own blood upon the Philistines: no Man so dear paid the pawnage of folly in his separation from the God of his life, the Death of his soul, and loss of endowments of Grace. Remove this Ignorance in the understanding, and eftsoons the forms of things appear as they are, crooked, straight, misshapen, entire. Upon sight of Errors, Confession is Instant, Non putâram, I was not ware: I did it of Ignorance: I witted not what I did: agnizing the Original of our miscarriage. Hence our Designs and Consultations consequent are, Quò me vertam, how may I mend that which is amiss? Thus being dazzled, we are to seek groping, as the men of Sodom, at Lot's door: or as Elymas, to find a guide, wand'ring else as men do in a Maze. Our tongues teach our hearts, what they think or should; God help the man thus wrapped in Errors; and lost in the Labyrinth of devices. And God doth help him: by Direction, 
For it lendes us to call upon him.  Call upon me. Which leaveth no plea for farther Ignorance: but us inexcusable, if we go wrong, and Call upon any else but Me. It is formerly observed, what is the Course of kind, men multiply devices many ways: The reason is evident, they know not the way; nor had ever hit upon it but by Direction▪ of this or some such as this, Call upon me; from God.  
And yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, we must have somewhat more than so. 
It assures us of a hearing.  In a Case of wrong and Injustice done by some great Grantorto, I know my Recourse for Redress must be unto Him, that can set all right, The Prince in State, God's Lieutenant for that purpose, To help them to right that suffer wrong: to which end and purpose he beareth the Sword. Yet unless I find that favour to be Herd in my Request and humble Petition, I were as good, nay better, possess my soul in Patience, sit still and endure whatsoever indignities rather after that ancient rule in Tacitus, Iniurias far & gratias agere, Say I thank you Sir to Him that doth me wrong, least stirring and storming to no purpose, if I cannot have due redress in time, I exasperated his oppressing humour the more, and so draw upon myself needlessely greater grievances, indignities, and vexations. So in Case of address unto, and Intercession with God, when we stand in need of his help and assistance, to be heard and delivered in time of trouble, that our Suits be not quashed; ourselves not disheartened, our Prayers may come into his presence, we must be advised two ways. First that we stand in no terms of disgrace, nor out of favour with Him. Secondly, that we want not means of Address and free access unto him. 
It takes away the two ordinary impeachments of help and assistance.  Which is in respect of Disaffection to our Persons: In respect of Disproportion to our state. Two ordinary empeachments of Help, assistance, 
Both which hinder us in the Court● of men.  and redress, in Course of Civil common carriages amongst men.  
For Disproportion first in point of State, in regard of awful Majesty in the person and Condition of Prince's advanced 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, high upon the steps and stairs of Honour, the Petitioner doth and is to keep Distance, in his Carriage and Decorum: not to press or presume into his Prince's presence, nor hand over head near unto his Person, without good warrant and incitement. For God, it may seem semblably of like Condition, that we should not presume to come so near him, 
And this disproportion should make us also stand at distance with the Almighty.  nor thrust ourselves forward to importune him, or indeed at all to petitionate Him, who is the God of glory, in state of Majesty: who dwelleth in Light, that is in Excellency unapproachable: attended about his Throne in his Palace Royal, by Angels and Archangels, Thrones, and Dominations, those Mighty Executioners of his will, and most glorious Ministers in his managements abroad, who being, as they are, so transcendent unto men, are admitted no farther into his designs and purposes reserved unto Himself then only 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to have a certain glimmering of his glory, to behold him, as it were, behind a traverse, as light at a cranny of a window, or ●hink of a door. But now, What is man? who is The Son of man? to come so near unto his Maker, or presume to approach his Presence Royal. Take him in his Naturals, Dust and ashes. Take him in his best state, no better than 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in all his Royalty, though on equal terms with salomon's, but a Clod of Clay gilded over, as well said Epictetus in Arrhianus. In point of good manners and civility, such an One may and must Fall off, stand at distance, and not dare come near to petition God, in Person at the least, but only if need be, by Seconds and Mediators. Suppose it he may, to be spoken unto him, which indeed is in an other case, and unto persons of other Condition, Esay 65.5. Stand aloof: by thyself: Touch me not: come not near me, for I am Holier than Thou.  
Nay more, so He must, stand off and at distance with the Almighty, 
And that by Gods own direction insinuated here in the kind of Invitation, Call.  by very direction of God Himself insinuated here. His very warrant of address in this his kind Invitation, telleth him tacitly so much, and assigneth him his station for his state, in letting him know his Condition, by the carriage and conduct of his Petition. Had he not been invited to do So, first, what is He that durst presume, and Call upon this Me, The God of Israel, the glorious God which ruleth in Zion? Being invited out of Grace and Goodness, he is yet further limited and stinted to his Carriage, and quousque, which putteth Him in remembrance, who and what is He; where, and upon what terms is his station. For to Call is not peculiar unto Every man: nor indistinctly spoken To, or Of any man. We know it is the proper Act of those, that are a longè, fare off, and at distance when they Call. We use not to Call unto Him that is nigh, at hand, fast by us, in the same room. We only speak to him, and most what also summissa voce, To come and help us, to lend us the hand, to relieve our Necessities, and do for us in our wants that surcharge us sore. Infer then we may from God's intent in this direction, out of the nature and manner of his Invitation: that God and Man stand at distance, are not in proximo or propinquo, but parted and dissevered asunder fare.  

Which may be aggravated from the degree of disproportion here.  In regard of Disproportion of State, Nature and Condition: this hath been touched upon already: No such distance inter duos, betwixt any two other, as God and his Creatures. The first and last of Things that are and have reference each to other. For what Disproportion is elsewhere, is inter subalternos, only betwixt them, that have some equality and combination, of Nature, Essence, Condition of kind, which hold no Concurrence or Correspondence here. Upon this Remoovall so fare in Nature, ensueth a second, in site and place; For locus and locatum in Natura rei, hold terms of Proportion necessarily. Now as fare as Heaven is from the Earth so fare apart is His Majesty from us. We dwell beneath on Earth, in houses of Clay, and have our Habitation in the Dust: His abode is on high, fare above our reach, we cannot ascend thither if we would; though it were granted that we knew the way. Locally we cannot, by approximation, as Bathsheba came to Solomon having a suit unto Him, or as Hester unto Ahashuerosh. 
Which shall hereafter be qualified.  One day we shall have that Honour and advantage also: yet thank him for it, or we never should: when this Corruptible hath put on Incorruption: and this Mortal hath put on Immortality. But that One day, is not Any day: is not every day, is not this day, that is Man's day, while yet we have need and cause to Call upon Me, in time of trouble. Then, in that day, no Trouble is, shall, or can be nigh, to make us Call for relief, and redress, when Peace and security have met together: height of joy and gladness kiss each other, embracing Perpetuity for Companion for ever, in full fruition of Eternal bliss forevermore. Interim, we are not so cast off, so shut out, or kept off at distance, as having no Access to the Royal Majesty of Heaven, nor means to come near his Person, or into his Presence at all.  
Much we have and many, 
And is here in some mea●ure, specially by the ascent of Prayer; implied in these words, Call upon Me.  very effectual and sufficient: all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in one word here, Call upon me. That is in other terms, Pray unto me, Prayer is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, An Ascent, as they define it, and going up unto God, of those that are at distance, and removed in suo ubi, of Natural posture Locally: of Hereditary encumbrances affectedly, of which also in loco, and anon. An ascent: but what manner? in what fashion? How? yet we are as fare to seek as before, How shall I come before the Lord, or approach unto my God? 
This is chief the ascent of the mind.  They add, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, unto the forme● Description, an Ascent, not of Body, but of the mind to God: The Soul is interessed in this Action, that noble and active part of man. The Soul, a Subsistance of a large capacity, not any Thing on Earth can fully give satisfaction to it: No not all things, but God in Heaven and Earth; so is it a Substance of very strange agility. Ou●nis spiritus ales est: It is a Spirit, as Angels, eviternall to the Image of God, that Eternal Spirit: and Spirits all of them, are of a quick dispatch. An ancient Adage it is, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, so swift as thought doth employ; the dexterity of this noble part of man, and strange agility, with which, in a moment of Time, in imperceived time, it passeth with speed from East to West, Walketh the rounds of North and South. Nor height nor depht, no length or extent, no force of opposition, or resistance, can bond it in, or exclude it out. Anima est ubi amat, non ubi animat, nor only where it liketh there it liveth, but where it worketh, there it walketh, giving Life and motion to the Body: is not yet bounded within the Body. The Soul of man living upon Earth, ascendeth fare above all Heavens and heights: approacheth with quick and easy speech and pace, unto that Throne of Majesty, and yet of Grace in Heaven, and there tendereth Petitions by Calling upon Me, our God that hath promised to hear when we call, and to deliver us in time of trouble. To him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, by Deprecation of evil to come, and feared: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in Desire of whatsoever we would have, making our wishes and desires known unto Him affectionately: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in Intercession for our friends, that would be remembered by us in our Prayer. Or lastly, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, giving him thankes, that hath wrought and sent Redemption unto his people, that hath not denied us the requests of our lips, but Herd and delivered us in our trouble. It is not the body's Act by local motion: it is peculiar to the soul, by mental exaltation, to approach, and come near, to Call upon God, as being only serviceable for that employment.  
And yet it must be granted, it can not be denied, but that 〈◊〉 is Incident to the whole man. More than Incident: very convenient: yet farther, requisite: and so, in some sort at least, of necessity urgents. Prayer is an Ascent of the mind: 
But so that the ascent of the voice may seem also to be implied.  so is ●oo● the voice, or else why here, Call upon me, saith God, in time of trouble, seeing Call is an act of the outward man, performed by those organs of speech and motion?  
The duteous respects we own unto God: those Human● performances we do for God: our service of Piety performed unto Him: our Actions any way interessed in him: all passages of Negotiation and Commerce interchanged with Him, are all of Condignity or Congruity. Such as cannot but be done by us: or such, as being done, it is the better for us. Such, as must needs be done in this sort: such as being thus done, are the better done by us every way: or would not otherwise be so well done as so. 
With this difference, that the heart is required of absolute necessity.  The Heart is required, of Absolute necessity. God hath challenged it for his own part and portion: My Son give me thy Heart. No Pagan but thought it ever due unto God. Therefore, Optimus animus pulcherrimus cultus, was assigned in the state of mere Nature without Grace, as most well pleasing unto and accepted of God. If that be wanting in our devotions, our best performings are but the sacrifices of fools: we offer, but the calves of hypocritical lips. 
The voice of convenience.  The voice is not necessary absolutely. We find them sometime singled, and that cum effectu: Moses at the red Sea, cried amain unto God: yet Moses was not heard to speak one word. Hannah prayed fervently, with a troubled spirit; yet her tongue went not at all: her lips scarcely moved; yet both of them Called, and Cried too: both of them were heard, and that to purpose. But D●uid Called, and Cried, and Roared too: he lift up his voice unto an high strain, and was heard and delivered often times. Not then Call upon me, with thy voice, as if the heart were not sufficient: but because the voice is very convenient, 
As in the time of trouble: but specially in time of public Divine Service. As it helps.  especially in the Time of trouble. Convenient then: and expedient elsewhere, in public Service and communion of the Church, met together for that purpose.  

1. To make up 2 part.  Man is considered two manner ways; his Occasions to call, are so many ways diversified: as he is Himself, consisting alone: as he is, a member of, and maketh up a part in a society. Time of trouble accrueth, and is incident unto Him either way. When many call together, Call with the voice is of absolute Necessity, in the usual and set Service of the Church. No man of sense or reason will question this, that the prayers of the Church must be vocal: as David sang lustily, and with a Courage, when he praised God in the great congregation. Not of absolute necessity for him that is alone, whose private wants and urgences set him on work: but yet of Conveniency for him also, if I be not mistaken, many ways.  
The voice, 
2. To raise up the affections.  set to call upon a pitch and a loud strain, serveth as a bellowes, naturally to kindle and inflame the fervour and elevation of the heart to raise it up the easier, and send up the affections thereof sooner unto Heaven. Mark this who so pleaseth; the voice in such heavenly occupations as this, giveth life and motion unto desires: vigour and activeness unto affections, Attention and intention more bend and reserved, and enforced unto our words and purposed supplications. Their wits go not a woolgathering, nor yet their thoughts on wandering, that be thus throughly bend and busied in and upon Call on me. The voice, not alone, or by itself: for the Heart must help and carry it up. Nor yet the Heart so actively set on servant devotion, as when the voice doth enlarge it otherwise contracted, and most what shrunk up. Aaron and Moses were employed unto Pharaoh: fratres animo, as well as utero: to impart God's will and directions unto him. Heart and Voice, are our Interpreters and Intercessors unto God, to implore his help, and impart our necessities unto him. The Voice in Call, is as Aaron unto Moses, spokesman to Pharaoh: interpreter to God. The Heart to the Voice, as Moses unto Aaron, to direct, advice, and put the words to be spoken into the mouth. Both united in Combination, as Elias and his fiery Chariot, in which he ascended into Heaven. Nixus Cordis, that we call. Partus Oris, what we call. He that singleth either upon singularity, whether impairing in point of congruity: or else parting points of condignity, doubleth with God in Devotion and Piety, and depriveth himself of success and succour in Necessity. For he calleth not as he should, and therefore distasteth in his call: and can he look for acceptance, with distaste? That which God hath joined, let not man presume to put asunder. God made both, and appointed both, Heart and Voice, unto one purpose. 
And (call) being here read indeterminatly, maketh both (that of the heart, and the other of the voice) liable to performance.  Call is not here, that we can read or find, confined and limited unto either, Heart or Voice: we have it indefinitely: we read it indeterminatly, call upon me, without adjection at all. So, or thus, a sign that both are liable to performance upon occasion: and He that is directed and invited to Call, left unto his Liberty, or Necessity, as his public exigences, or private necessities shall employ him. It is an infallible sign, I suppose, when no one nor other, heart or voice is excluded, that Call upon me is a joint Act of either, but left upon indifferency, to Place and Person, Need and occasion, as Discretion and employment shall think behooveful: yet Call, verbum oris, a word that importeth an external Act, the performance of the tongue, not of the heart is used, I suppose, to insinuate, that for this time of Life, the service of God in our best endeavours, must be conformed unto what we can do, as mortal men, not what we should do, as perfect men, or shall perform hereafter, at Home in Heaven; as Angels rather than mortal Men.  
The voice is not necessary in some misconstructions; because, forsooth, 
Yet some would be too spiritual, in excluding the voice.  God's service is spiritual: and we must merely become intellectual. So sighs, and groans, as many as you will; and eyes gloyted upward, God knoweth why, or whether; but Call with the voice, is too Carnal, an Angelical conformity would better fit us. Nay, will, perhaps, hereafter; will not now, or yet: we must do as we may, and Call as we can; which wanting not devotion appertaining, will not want effect or acceptance that is expected. There never was but one amongst the sons of men, whose Actions are and ever were absolute rules of imitation; He that saith in the Gospel, Learn of me. It was a Call to purpose, a loud one indeed, in which he commonly did commence his suits unto his Father. We are sure it was then, when as the Apostle telleth us, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he was heard to purpose by the God of his Life, and delivered from the danger of that he feared. He cried and called as loud as might be, with a great voice, we read it in the story of his passion, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 strong Cries, in Saint Paul's relation of all that ever were, He lest needed so to lift up his voice: a more summisse tone would have served his turn: yet this was his carriage in commencing his petitions: None ever Called so loud as He. I read not any mental Prayers of his related, though he, if ever any, prayed continually. He did this for Precedent unto us, not so much for Practice in Himself▪ who was not tied to so, or so; but freely might follow his own ways, and counsels at pleasure.  
But peradventure it may seem 〈◊〉 disparagement, 
They might better urge a disadvantage in the use of it, being easily tired, if it be continued.  at least some disadvantage to Call with the voice, though David used it often: because, as it is truly observed in Natural courses and Occurrences, Nihil violentum est diuturnum▪ Nothing violent can long be permanent: Those that in Calling upon Me, God at some distance in time of trouble, do raise their Call unto so high a pitch, in strong cries unto God, and supplications, cannot long continue in the self same tone, nor yet go through in their Devotions, unless that sometimes they break off, and fetch breath; and rally themselves now and then upon a Pause, to be heard the sooner, to be heard the better, to enforce the more effectually their Calling upon God; reenforced a new by a Fresh supply, as it were, of forces; that, as Tertullian speaketh, Do lay siege unto Heaven. And what of that, if they so make some stops and breaks in their Meditations? Much more, I suppose, 
But that will rather prove an advantage, if they often break it off by shorter ejaculations.  it will be for their advantage every way. A line Drawn out in length, both in Art and Nature, is the weakest of all Dimensions or Figures whatsoever. The longer Drawn out, so much more the weaker, where each part sustaineth the poise alone, hath no help nor supportation from another part. A line redoubled is the stronger; the more redoubled and jointed, so much more the stronger. We see it verified in an Arch, and rounded building, where each stone buckleth into another. As in Art and in Nature, so likewise in Grace. Our hearts are like unto Moses hands; heavy of themselves: their affections extended, as a line Drawn out; weak and feeble in extension; the longer extent, the more feeble, especially upward, against Course and kind. For Ascent is not Natural unto heavy Substances: Violent motion must so enforce them, which cannot long hold out in statu quo. Affections in this Case are all in all, and they thus considered are as a Bow, which standing long bend proveth but a slug, striketh the mark very seldom: rather indeed sendeth not the Arrow home. So fare from drawing blood, or making a deep wound, that hardly stringit, it doth raze the skin. Interchanged res● with motion, is so Natural and Necessary, that nothing can subsist without it long. Perpetual Action and Motion doth impair the state of that, which is continually moved, and in moving weareth, though sens●ms●nt se●s●, not so soon perceived by the sense.  

For so ou● prayers are truly made Cal●, as they are in my text.  In this regard I cannot but much commend those Prayers which are indeed, and truly Calls. Vbi multi dantur ad Deum reditus. Many breaks, and returns unto God are usual; letting down and stretching up the strings of our affections, from and unto their fit and just proportion and measure. 
And that was (such Cassian) the meaning of the Monkish devotion in Egypt. Ins●i●ut. L●b. 2. c. 10.  Antiquity named these, jaculatorias Orationes, Prayers shot forth with some bent of Affection; the use and profit of them is thus expressed by Cassian, speaking of the Monks in Egypt in his time, who much & often used them in their rigid and most exact Devotions. Vt frequentiùs Dominum deprecantes jugiter eidem coharere possimus: & ut insidiantis Diab●lijacula, quae in●ligere nobis tum praecipuè insistit, cùm oramus, succinctà vitemus brevitate. No small profit, to prevail against the Devil's assaults, to put by his temptations, and suggestions that encumber our affections in their performings. No better means to put them by, then by such jaculatory Prayers as these, which prevent him in his attempts, and are sooner dispatched than he would think them begun. Say Cavilling Catharists what they can to the Contrary, it is a Manifest, that the Prayers of the Church, in our Common Liturgies, authorised and in use, are very well thewed and composed for the nonce, to fit the dispositions and affections of men. Short and effectual, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, none so potent or likely to prevail with God. Collect●, they are called; 
And it is the meaning both of the name, and use of our Church-Collects. Epist●l● 1●1.  and such they are; Collected and shut up into a narrow room and scantling: and so Constipatae, are more effectual and forceable, As vis unita fortior, such are they combined. Saint Augustine seconding that relation of Cassian, giveth the same reason of that Devout Practice. Ne illa vigilanter erecta qua oranti plarimum necessaria est, per productiores mor●s evanescat atque hebetetur intentio. For long continual beating in, and plodding on the same, Dulleth the edge and Liveliness of the Agent. Therefore Mother Rebekah, out of her Discretion and experience, knew how to Dress a Dish for Father Isaac, that so a blessing may Descend upon the head of jacob her son.  
There are that glory much in very long Prayers; That lose themselves often, and their Desires in their Devotions; and may very well go blow the seek for them; that Can not tell why they came to talk with God. Say they know not in Discourse with God; and having long babbled, and battalogised with God, immannerly enough, and to no purpose at all, after all this much ado, and his so long Patience to hear them talk idly, may well be questioned with, what would the good man say? Absit ab Oratione multa locutio, sed no● absit multa precatio. Mistake not my meaning, as if I meant to condemn or prejudice long and fervent Devotion. 
Yet do I not condemn 〈◊〉 praying, but much 〈◊〉 nor many prayers but many words.  In Prayer, Pray much and fervently, a God's name; but take heed of talking and ta●ling much, Sic si feruens perseveret intentio. The longer men continue in familiar Discourse with God, the more Honour, so redoundeth Doubtless to the Discourser. The more and more many ways they make their Cases known; the more instant and urgent men are with God, the better at all times welcome to Him, and more likely to prevail. As Intention is no way to be blunted, if so be the edge be both sharp and Durable; and will not be broken nor taken off: So if it be keen, and yet soon blunted, give new quickness, by whetting it once, and often. Many Words, but no many Prayers, are frequent and usual in our Ordinary Talkers of Devotion. To speak and talk much, is with words superfluous and more than needeth, to prize the obtaining of that which is not very behooveful, whereas were men well and rightly Disposed, some sighs and salt tears, might dispatch all. Plus gemitibus, indeed, quàm sermonibus agitur: plus fletu quàm affatu. Multum precamur, in how few words soever, cum ad Eum quem precamur pià cordis excitatione pulsamus. To excite and stir up, to hold on, and hold out the well settled and resolved Devotion of the Heart, nothing more potent nor prevailing, then voce clamare, to Lift up the voice, and Call upon God: Call and spare not, 
For (Call) 〈◊〉 an extent, being a word of degrees. Chrysost.  as long as may be; as loud as can be. Call hath an extent; it is a word of Degrees: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 written not with many Letters, yet of great employment in Prevayling Devotions every way.  
With this Condition, if yet farther we Call and Cease not: but Call and Call; Call and Cry aloud so long, Donec misereatur nostri: at last let him not go without a blessing. Call is but once, I grant it, in the Text. But yet Call and no more is not sufficient. Nor is it intended we should Call but once. But Call and Call, again and again, until he attend unto our Prayer. I enforce not the Direction, beyond purpose, I suppose, and intent. The words themselves give it. If not Call; which is single: yet Call upon; which employeth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Once and again: Call, and Call: often, instantly, now, 
Neither is it Call in a single word, but Call upon, which implies it to be instant.  then anon: that is, Call upon God; give him no rest; as Himself saith unto Moses in an importune suit, Let him not alone: nor Let him go. God loveth and approveth importune Suitors: Such as will not soon, nor be easily put off; such as will take no Denial. With men in Civility it is held good manners, Si ter pulsanti nemo respondet, abit●. Knock thrice, if none answer, then be gone. In Course of Life and Friendship it is good Favour, to Do a good turn once and have Done for ever. And therefore such wise men as well understand the world, are careful to husband up, and not to spend favour. But with God it is otherwise: No good inducing argument with him, I come not often: I am not like to trouble thee again in haste. Nay, nothing more harsh or Distasting unto Him, then, I never did till now trouble thee with suit, nor am I likely to do it again in haste. But Call upon me, toties quoties, when, and as often as thou wilt: 
And at all times instant.  The more often the better welcome. Be instant, urgent, give not over. Pray continually, at any time. Offer up Pure hands, and an honest Heart in any place: Upon any Occasion: For any thing. The Day of trouble, in the Text, 
Specially in the day of trouble.  is not Exclusive, So, as if not at all but then. Not Definitive, So, as if only then. It is indeed the fittest, but not the only time. And not the fittest neither for itself; or in regard of any Disposition in God: but only in regard of men's Dispositions, 
In regard of our better dispositions then.  than rather fit, then at other times. Otherwise any time is alike unto God; for men's Private Prayers and Devotions. In the Day of trouble, Men are of all other times most Sensible, most apprehensive of want of Comfort, of Relief and Deliverance; and so most willing and well disposed to Call upon me; whom otherwise, at other times, they are well enough contented to let alone, as if God were Disquieted, with Petitioners and Suits. It is a Course observed in Israel of old, In their affliction they did seek the Lord: whom still in Prosperity they forsook when they were full. Seldom Do we say, God help me; or, What shall I do; but when we are pinched with some Extremity. God knoweth our humour and Disposition, that the best and fittest time to deal with us, is, The day of trouble.  
Therefore he leaveth Goads in the Israelites sides: therefore 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: a stub in the Flesh, with Saint Paul: therefore coarctat, he narroweth & streighteth us at home. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, saith Saint Basil, not delighting to trample on us. It is children's play, to build houses of Reeds and Bulrushes, and straight to Demolish them again. God will no such pastime as this. But, as I have seen, a Nurse Suffer her Foster child to take a knock, with a Fall, that he may become more wary, and not wander at random as otherwise he would, but be the more fond of her, for want of whose ready assistance he fell: So I know, that God, to have our Company the oftener; to enjoy it the longer; to secure us unto himself the better; suffereth the Day of trouble to overtake us, for our good: that so drawing near him, we may be safe without Scruple of Disproportion otherwise: which may happily put us off fare enough from Him. 
Besides thee, which we have said of disproportion: there is a s●cond impeachment in regard of disaffection.   
In respect of Disaffection yet farther removed from Him. For who can look for Help at his Enemy's hands? For good Respect there, and for gracious acceptance, where he hath been ever at odds, and ad oppositum? For advancement or Reward from his Prince; who in justice might take his head for a Traitor? It is most Certain, God and Man, in effect Prince and People, Subjects and Sovereign have Anciently been at odds upon many great Differences Diversely; upon high terms of Disunion sundry ways. And therefore no Cause for Him, to look to be heard at his Call in time of trouble. Adam, at first, instantly upon the breach betwixt God and Himself, did Discover this affection upon guilt of Conscience, in Himself, 
Which may well fright us from coming to call upon God: it frighted Adam from coming to Gods call.  and His; Gen. 3.10. I heard thy voice in the Garden, Calling Adam, where art thou, and was afraid. Afraid to Come at Gods call: much more afraid to come and to Call on God; in time of trouble and affliction.  
True indeed, and good Reason for it. Therefore Every one that Calleth is not heard. Nor is Call on me, directed indifferently: but upon supposal of status alteratus, 
But, indeed we have had a better call since adam's: and so we may also the better call to him, and hop● to be heard.  Men becoming new men; by Submissive Reconciliation. The Person is first accepted, than the Petition granted: as the gift elsewhere is grateful for the Givers sake: God had respect to Abel and to his gift. God heard Abraham, for he was his friend: delivered jacob, who was his Servant. Here, not singuli generum, are directed to Call; every man, every where, at any time; nor genera singulorum, at all adventures: but only such as be remembered, Vers. 15. That hear the Lord first, Israel Verse. 7. The people whom he chose. For there are some concerning whom he hath resolved and set down, They shall call upon me, the very carriage of these, and terms here used; 
But with a double distinction.  but I will not hear: they shall seek me early, but shall not find me, Prou. 1.28. So then Distingue perso●●●, put difference to the Persons, and Scripture seeming contrary, will be well accorded. This Intercourse is not left at large: the Negotiation is not betwixt Any and any, this man or that: Call, and I will Hear, passeth betwixt two, 
Of the persons employed in the words, Thee and Me.  Me and Thee, God and Gods chosen. The Redeemer of Israel, and the People whom he hath bought: his Beloved Ones, because his Faithful Servants. Faithful, trusting in him, assured of Him: and Faithful also to Him, that deceive Him not Fides is dictorum factorumque, they say, and truly, constantia atque veritas, and these keep touch with God, and stipulation per paint, and punctually, I may say Covenant. For in all and every God's promises of Grace, there is an Indenture drawn betwixt God and man, for performing of Covenants on either part. The Conditions are reduced to these parts, 
For there are Conditions drawn between them both.  Walk thou before me and be upright: So, I will be thy God, and thou shalt be my people. These ever expressed or supposed, must be supposed Performed before we come to Call upon Him, that is able to Deliver us in time of trouble. We have the same instanced in this present passage. For the Promise and Direction, is upon Condition: the Illative, 
And, in this present pas●sage; the promise runs upon a condition.  And call, is in effect thus, And so: or, then call, and not before. So there lieth a● Encumbrance upon this Promise of Assistance and Invitation. I will hear, there is a Condition to keep touch with God, which must be formerly and first performed: 
Th●● Verse being ●●ferred upon the former Verse.  Pay thy vows, in the Verse preceding this, then come and Call in the day of trouble. Pay first the old Debt, then go on with a new score. No reason to Hear him when he Calleth upon God, that is, challengeth Performance of Gods Promise for assistance, that hath not Himself kept touch with God first. 
Not without good reason.  For can Promise-breakers expect Performance? or He challenge an other that is false himself? joshua had a Promise at his first entrance into State, As I was with Moses, so will I be with Thee. A Charter sealed from the Almighty, No man shall stand before thee all the days of thy life. And yet not many months after the ensealing, Israel fell before the men of Ai. Sensit hic peritus Dux, that all was not as it should be, expostulating with God, he found the Cause was breach of Promise on Israel's part, The People had not paid their vows to the most High. Upon Inquisition had it appeared by Confession, and Euidentia facti, that A●han had committed Sacrilege, in Interuerting the Consecrated thing, and Profaning that which was Religious. Therefore Israel fell before their Enemies, as being guilty of a roaring Sin, Theft and Roberie against God.  
Rar● antecedentem scelestam, deseruit pede poena claudo. Mark who list, and then make this observation, If Sin march before, then will assured Vengeance be in the Rear. If judgement ensue, it is most certain, Iniquity hath been found in jacob. Had Zimri peace that slew his Master? Achan escaped not with his Sacrilege. The Sin of Achan is a Ranger in the World. Many Hunters have Taken and divide the spoils of the Sanctuary, never determined for such Profane hands, nor appointed for such ungodly uses, as they are converted and serve unto: The true Cause alone, if well advised on, why so many mighty Nimrods' in the World miscarry, they and their Posterity, at least in the third Generation, mark it who list, being swept away and gone-out of God's houses by them devoured: out of his Inheritance, which they and theirs had dismantled and laid waist. Go therefore, Solve vota, pay what thou owest, discharge thy Promise, make peace with a good Conscience, be at one with God, this Invitation is warrant enough, to Call, and be heard in time of trouble. Call then and Challenge Him if he do not Hear. It is made a Book Case, and fitteth well the purpose, Malach. 3.10. Prove me now if I open not the windows of Heaven, and pour you out a blessing without measure. As great an Obligation as can be entered into, I will pour you out a blessing without measure. See the Condition, on their parts to be performed: without which no such blessing at God's hand. Bring all my Tithes into my Storehouse, that there may be meat in my house, saith God there unto them. Israel, having rob him, in his own reserved portion, were justly plagued for this their Sacrilege, and not heard, nor delivered, upon their Call, in time of trouble; upon amendment, certainly assured, that A blessing without measure, should be given them: that God would set open the windows of Heaven unto them.  

And this is ever God his manner of dealing with us. Upon condu●●●, but very easy.  God dealeth as it were upon truck and exchange. He selleth indeed his Favours, as in bargain and sale; though he sell them at an easy rate. Not for Money, nor yet money-worth, that is disclaimed by Proclamation, Esay 55.1. Come buy without Money, or money-worth. Not at such rate that men be thereby undone: as if a man should s●ll his Patrimony, to buy a Bishopric, or Office, and dye soon after: or some other Preferment at Steeple-faire. Or take up Sin from the Devil upon Bond, the Interest whereof will at length eat them out; God meaneth no such Vow or Promise as this. No such Peace Offering that may undo the Son of thy Body, for the Sin of thy Soul. It is easy enough Payment, by thyself conditioned, and therefore justly by Him exacted, Walk before me, and be upright. Then Call and Spare not: Call and Doubt not, but veniens veniet: he that shall come will come and not tarry long, if in Calling thou Double not: that is, Single Him that which alone will not Content Him, Call with the mouth, not with the heart. Give him voice enough: but sparingly or nothing of the Inward man. Inuocare, is, intus vocare. The Mouth is but Midwife to the Heart; our Inward parts than should be employed, that so we may be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, attend that only which we do: not, as the Proverb was sometime, Castra in Hispanijs aedificantes. Divine actions, require the whole man. God will not be served by halves; nor will he part stakes with any other in that which is his peculium and peculiar.  
Here then as Personas, so distingue tempora. As Every man is not alike with God, 
Of the times.  nor in the same Degree of Regard with God: so also, in ●jsdem, distingue tempora. The same men are not ever considered in the same state, nor yet accompanied with the same attendants, and therefore have not ever the same success. 
For we must not ever expect the like success, though we be interessed in the promise.  There are different affections, and varying Dispositions in the the same men, to Call, at sundry times. Nor do they come alike prepared ever. So now, as anon: or as they did at other times. Nor yet so qualified as they should be. The best are not always and evermore heard, and delivered when they call. No not, when they Call out and Cry, with the whole heart: nor though they Cry aloud, and lift up their voice, and Roar for disquietness of their souls, as David hath observed in himself. And it is most certain, it cannot be denied, Practice and Experience in common course of Life, doth aver and make it good, that even in the best; those that Pay their vows, and keep touch with God: that are of Israel according to Adoption and Grace; the Secret, the Hidden, the Reserved once of God: that Call and Cry aloud; that double not with God: that Pray with the Heart and Understanding also: Are not ever heard, when they Call. I add, because we must be instant in Calling, and, in Calling upon, continue calling; that is, be Fervent and instant in Prayer, those that Call and Cease not, Expect and doubt not, yet are not ever answered in their earnest desires, nor have a fiat ut petitur, assigned to them: They Call, and Call, and yet are not heard. Paul avoucheth his own Case and Example to this purpose. Thrice he besought the Lord, and was not heard, the Angel of Satan continued buffeting of him, the Stub in the flesh was not removed from Him. Of Esau's Calling and Crying, calling often and with tears, the Case is plain and avouched by Saint Paul unto the Hebrews, and many more instances might be given. But for Esau and his Compeers the Case is plain, the answer expedite, He was not of the Tribe of Populus meus. A Stranger from God, and the Word of his Grace. He had then no part nor portion in that Promise, I will hear: He was not intended in that Invitation, Call upon me. Paul was a man of an other making indeed, cast in the mould that God would have him. And yet 2. Cor. 12.9. for all that, he Called thrice and was not heard: where then is the Truth of his Promise in Performance, Call upon me and I will hear, seeing Paul the party interessed, was, if ever any, of the stock and kindred of Populus meus, interessed in the Promise for Performance, I will hear and deliver: and also called, if ever any did, with due observation of Conditions?  
Now that God may be cleared, when he is questioned for performance of his Promise: 
Since God may hear us two ways.  and our hopes secured, when they rest affianced on his Word, I will hear and deliver: thus it is; A man is heard at God's hand, two manner ways. First, ad voluntatem, In his very desire according to his will: which is not ever ad salutem, 
1. Ad voluntatem.  for and to his good. Or, he is heard ad salutem, 
2. Ad salutem.  for his good and his avail, as he should and would intent, if he understood himself aright: though not ad voluntatem which was irregular, enormous and damageable. Saint Paul was heard, as he desired. Not indeed according to the error of his opinion, 
And our opinion may often misdeem that to be good, which is not.  by which he misdeemed it good for him, to be free from that buffeting of the Devil: but heard as he should be, and as he would desire, according unto his better judgement, in that which was more available and for his greater good. I put the Case: a man of Service in Church or Commonwealth is a Suitor to his Prince of whom he well deserveth, having spent in his Service much time and means, for some Pension of one hundred Crowns per annum: and upon some Reason of Profit, or ground of State, is denied his Suit in that Particular: but so, that in lieu thereof he hath an Office of Honour, of a thousand pound a year passed over to him instantly. Or say that a Petitioner for a poor Parsonage, missing that, as formerly disposed of, were rewarded with a deanery of good Corpse and value: no man will or can say otherwise, but, that both they sped well, and were heard to purpose, according to desire, though denied in their prime intended Suit, according to the letter. For by their Petition, intention primâ, their purpose and project was this, to do themselves good, by procuring means and maintenance: to which end, upon a second intention, they pitched and resolved on this or that particular; which in their Opinion, liable to misconceit and error, was a Suit of Consequence to do them good; though in Issue and Conclusion they miss of it: and if they had obtained it, as they desired, their Case and state had been much worse than it fell out to be otherwise. Paul was not heard ad voluntatem, as he would and wished: because he wished what was not then so expedient for Him. But yet ad salutem, he was heard abundantly, My Grace, said God unto him, is sufficient for thee; this Grace was imparted to him plentifully. The Devil himself on the other side, was heard ad voluntatem, when he sued to become jobs Tormentor. To go into and destroy the heard of Hogs. When they are permitted to possess, afflict, seduce men unto Sin, they have then their desire at their own wills. But better it were for them not to be heard so at all. It maketh for their greater condemnation, to aggravate the weight of their eternal punishment, and fill up the measure of their Impiety. They are not, nor shall they ever be heard ad salutem. 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  For God hath sworn unto them in his wrath, they shall never more return unto his rest. Their judgement is sealed, whatsoever some Merciful ones do dream and dote, their Damnation sure: The sentence passed against them is Irreversable, not to be traversed by Writ of Error: So that all things work together unto their Confusion: even the grant of their desires, by God.  
For God's Children and Beloved, 
At the least it is not so good as we apprehend it.  it is a ruled Case in Nature, and holdeth true in Grace, No man ever did, no man ever can or will, desire his own proper hurt and damage intentionally. That which He knoweth and is assured to be evil, that no man ever did or can desire as evil.  
For, malum sub ratione mali, nor is, nor can be die peculiar Object adaequatum of our Wills and Desires, but malum only, sub ratione boni. The Evil which we would not, that indeed we do, that we desire and procure also to ourselves: we Call, and Cry, and sue, and seek, an● Labour often earnestly with God, to procure it to ourselves: but out of Opinion and Misconceit, that it will be for our good and great advantage: Bonum utile or delectabile; In point of pleasure or of Profit. Now the Case standeth thus betwixt God and his Children, He loveth them dear with tender Compassion, and with Mercy everlasting he doth embrace them; and therefore of Himself, and from Himself, he wisheth, willeth, worketh, and procureth, that which is Good, and ever Good, and only Good for them. Man is much and often his own Foe, in Willing and Procuring his own hurt and loss, which he doth not directly as intending so, but out of Ignorance and unwittingly, as taking things to be what they are not: mistaking much the Forms and Fashions, Events, and Consequents, the Causes and Occasions of things Contingent, yet in their Causes, not in Act, and so, Unseen, Unknown, and Vndiscerned what they will be. The Will is Chief Monarch of the Soul, 
The Will being not rightly informed by the understanding.  ordering and disposing authentically. The Understanding is Chief Counsellor of State, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, The King's Eye. Much is done amiss, because commanded ill; yet the King is blameless, being ill advised: Inform him aright, all shall be well: for he disposeth, as He is informed, by him that most what mistaketh the mark, calling Bad good, and good bad: suggesting, as convenient, which is no way competent. Now God fare otherwise doth dispose: Actually, intuitively, simul, semel, he beholdeth and discerneth all things as they are. For past or to come there is nothing with Him, who seethe from everlasting to everlasting: knowing what will be before it is. To purpose, when we Call, he knoweth and is assured, that were our desires granted us, as we wish, it would sort unto our hurt and utter undoing. And thereupon his Wisdom out of his Love denieth us the request of our lips, the earnest and affected desires of our hearts: though with strong Cries and Supplications, with fervent affection, yea with tears: as knowing it better to be denied, then by having them granted to be undone. Not any man, I suppose, that hath had to do with God, but either hath or might have made this real observation unto Himself in his own experience. I appeal in this particular to their own Privity, 
And therefore God may be aid 〈◊〉 to hear us, when he seem●s to deny us.  who or can or will remember it, whether God in not granting them many their desires, hath not in that very particular done them good: and made manifest his Care and Love enlarged unto them? For they find, or may so find it upon after-experience, that had they obtained it, they had been undone: being denied it, they were made men. So that we may be Herd very well unto a purpose, when we are not heard, nor delivered as we would be. And God is just of his Promise, true of his word, when he doth not hear us at Call, in time of trouble: but putteth us off, putteth us by, or plainly denieth us our request.  

This gives a further rule to our Call. When we call, not to prescribe the time or means, or subject of our desires  Therefore Call but prescribe not, So or So: Now or then, as the men of Bethulia did, by such a day if he save us not, we will render up the City unto the Enemy. Leave God unto his Liberty, for When, How, and What to do. The Time, the Means, the Subject of our desires, which shall rest in his best disposition for our advantage, 
Which is often crossed for many Reasons.  many ways: whether prorogued, precipitated, or denied. In Particular, there are Reasons to move and persuade us yet farther in the point.  
As for Humiliation of our Hearts; 
For our Humiliation.  apt enough to swell up big with self-conceit of our own worth, upon opinion of some, the least Grace and Favour with God: expressed in Saint Paul's case 2. Cor. 12.7. Lest he might be puffed up, he was beaten by that Angel of Satan.  
Secondly, For trial of their Faith, and fidelity to their Master, 
For trial of our Faith.  that it may appear the Devil was a Liar, when he affirmed, job served not God for naught, that he did it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, he had need of him; and to leave him, he could not tell where to be better. It was a sign of Fidelity indeed, Though thou kill me, yet will I love thee.  
Thirdly, For Augmentation of their Love, much more endeared by having need of God. 
For Augmentation of our love.  I will love thee dear, said he in the Psalm, because he had been his, Refuge in time of his trouble.  
Fourthly, For Declaration of his worth: which as Gold in the Fire, 
For declaration of our worth.  so is manifested by tribulation; and the more tribulation, the greater manifest thereof. Ille latebat & fallebat. job was not discovered, till he was put unto it. He was reputed as other men, till he was tried and found Faithful.  
Fiftly, For Exaltation of their reward; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: 
For exaltation of our reward.  The more we endure for God's sake in Earth, the greater shallbe our reward in Heaven. Call then and murmur not, Call, despair not, Call and expostulate not with God, for being not heard instantly, or not at all, when thou Callest for Deliverance, according unto Expectation; A greater suit is granted, when a smaller is denied, which also would turn unto apparent loss; and so what breach of Promise, I will hear and deliver, in these Cases?  

So that it is no prejudice, to be de●erred, or denied.  These must be remembered, lest that, as it happeneth very often, We being not heard, nor yet Delivered upon request and Call, according to Expectation: but differred a while, adjourned, put off unto a farther day, be soon discouraged, disheartened, and finally put by that assured assistance, which we looked for, and otherwise might have from our God. Men soon grow weary of welldoing: more soone in actions of Piety; most, when they fail though never so little of Expectation: which as it is not regular, nor yet well directed; so it holdeth not staunch any long time; a little disaster will quite dismay it; a small Cross or rub in the way quash it. In truth, 
For, God ever hath his reasons of love why he doth it.  Deus ut iterum venias pau●a dat: ut frequenter adeas difficulter dat. God doth not lavish out his Graces, though abundantly he could do it all at once, but giveth indeed sparingly, and with a straightened hand. It is not for nigardise that he doth so: It is to have thee come the oftener. He heareth, giveth, delivereth not upon the first motion, at present suit; it is not for any sinister intent; it is to have thee Come and Call the oftener. The oftener, the better welcome. Unto Himself without Mediation: thou by thyself without Deputation. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it is a Personal Intercourse, Call, I will hear, betwixt Me, and Thee. So we cannot pretend disproportion. It is not to be thought there is disaffection.  
Had we not been invited to Call first: 
Therefore, whether we consider the manner of his hearing, or of his inviting us to call, we may put off all thought of disaffection.  upon Conscience of Desert, we peradventure might have Cast in some scruple of Disaffection. It is more than Manifest, he hath put up all, passed by all, pardoned all, that so kindly inviteth to Call upon me. We find not any Suit in the Premises commenced; no Petition exhibited for access or Favour. The first thing we hear of independantly, is Call upon me. Thus Grace preventeth with the blessing of Goodness, those that in Necessity had need of God. Had we not been prevented by Invitation, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in his own Person; we might have put in excuse for ourselves thus, By what warrant is this Invitation? We must not presume; we dare not come at him upon so great terms of disproportion. But being invited so, By Himself, though there be no proportion betwixt Him and us; the Majesty of Heaven, and Mortal men on Earth: 
But, we must not put off our duty of calling,  it is no manners to refuse the offer and gift of a Superior. No pretence of Disproportion can be available, if that God do condescend to such terms of Proportion. If God do condescend to talk with Abraham, Abraham may be bold, though Dust and ashes, to discourse with God, and importune him for the Sodomites, as we know he did. The more immediate Mandate, 
The rather; being his own immediate mandate, that we should call.  the greater respect due unto it from the Subject. The more immediate Promise, ever the surer hope from him that hath ever been his words master. The word of a Prince, is a Royal engagement, and grand assurance. Noblemen were wont not to break their words having spoken upon their Honours. 
Which, as it challengeth a greater respect  And in Verbo Sacerdotis hath been held a surer tye, than a Corporal oath is for a Priest: And shall we admit any quarrel against God, as if he meant not truly, that we should have access unto him, and assistance from Him? A Prince's Invitation by Himself in Person, giveth greater assurance then by message. This Call upon me, is as immediate as may be: Nothing possibly can be more. God with his own mouth, in his own person speaketh and inviteth, not by delegation, by another man's. And we are invited to Come as he calleth, not by delegation, but ourselves: immediate Invitation, for immediate access. No one steppeth in betwixt Me and Thee in this negotiation. No Interloper in this Intercourse and Commerce. No Intercessor, to be heard and delivered in time of trouble. Either of Himself, without warrant, coming in motu proprio, unrequested: nor: by appointment in Subordination from God, by entreaty or atonement from ourselves, or others.  
Thus effectually to deliver, 
So, it cannot but produce a surer hope, and greater confidence.  and that at a pinch, and but upon Call, in Exigence of trouble, should advance our endeavours, even extremum potentiae, by all means possible to be thankful. Si totum me debeo pro me facto, quantum rependam pro me redempto? A main part of thankful Duty unto God, and recognition of his Love, is to believe his Promise, and build upon his word; to Fellow his Directions, Come at his Invitation; not to stand, as in doubtful suspense what to do, or what Course to run in time of Trouble: Seeing he that is Able, doth declare himself willing to Hear and Deliver, at our Call, by Immediate warrant from himself, without help or mediation, or Suit of others.  
And yet the Church of Rome, 
The practice of the Church of Rome▪ fare otherwise.  having lost her first Love, and long since made forfeiture of her Honour, hath prostituted her Devotions, even 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: As a common strumpet, giveth entertainment to any Commoner promiscuously; So hath she also divided her Call, in her Devotions, to every one that passeth by: Each Saint hath a part, as it happeneth, as men are disposed, or occasions are presented. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; as the Fox in the Fable, She hath many addresses unto many Mediators, For Access and Audience: For Dispatch and Riddance at God's hands, to be heard and delivered in time of Trouble, few or none immediate To, or By himself.  
Many Mediators of Intercession only: For I say not, 
For though she be wise enough in confessing God the donor, & principal author.  I cannot, I must not say that the Church of Rome denieth Call upon me, to hold in good Obedience, or in Divinity. For Certainly She addresseth Te add me, Man unto God, unto none but unto God, to be heard and delivered by him alone, out of tribulation in the Day of trouble: as Author and Original of all help and Grace, deduced and derived merely, wholly, and totally from Him. Freely professing, willingly acknowledging, as truly believing as any do or can do whatsoever, that, Every good gift and perfect giving is, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the work of God, and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sent of God. It is true, and must not be denied, The Roman Church in her Doctrine (for, and concerning Practice; it is otherwise) doth not impair, or impeach the Sure, firm, and fastest Meditation, the Peculiar work of Christ jesus, or appoint Propitiators in his place, who alone, as all sufficient in himself paid the price of our Redemption, and made up without assistants or Concurrents, the alone, absolute atonement, by his Real and perfect Satisfaction, betwixt God and Man. Willingly they acknowledge and profess together with us, that, None but Christ: none but Christ. In Earth they have none beside Him, and in Heaven not any to be compared to him: who only through the Dignity of his Person: and all-sufficiency of his Desert, meritoriously obtaineth what we can desire, or what we Call for at God's hands. It is false which is imputed, if yet it be imputed, and laid unto, their Charge, That they have many Gods, or many Lords. That they Call upon Saints, as upon God to help them: That they mention not Christ, but Saints in their Devotions. They do not deny Call upon me. In their Doctrine and Opinion, Invocation is peculiar unto God alone, as a part of that Eternal Moral duty, which man ever doth owe unto God, his Maker and Protector in all his ways, Invocation I mean, in a proper Sense: it is Advocation and Intercession only which they give unto Saints; which Act is sometime called Invocation in a large extent, as it passeth and is directed from man to them. Their help, with David, only standeth in the Name of the Lord, who hath made both Heaven and Earth. For Gratiam & gloriam, say they, dabit Dominus, It is the Lord alone that Gives, because it is in his power to give, both Grace and Glory. Therefore the great Dictator of that side layeth down this Proposition, as resolved upon on all hands by his Party, It is not lawful to desire or request of the Saints, that as Actors of Divine good things and Benefits, they grant unto us, glory, or grace, or any other means unto eternal happiness. For why: Our help standeth in the Name of the Lord, that hath made Heaven and Earth. And he addeth, That the Saints are no immediate Intercessors for us with God, but whatsoever they obtain for us at God's hands, that they do obtain by and through Christ. And it is for aught I know, the voice of every Romanist, Non ipsi Sancti, sed eorum Deus, Dominus nobis est. So it must not be imputed, which is not deserved, were they worse than they are. It is a Sin, they say, to belie the Devil: a Shame to charge men with what they are not guilty of, to make the breach bigger, 
Being in this, as she is in other opinions, somewhat 〈◊〉 us.  already too wide. Concerning Saints departed, thus they teach. First, that according unto Scripture and Faith of the Church, They live and subsist in their better part. That, their Life is hidden in Christ with God; whose Presence they now enjoy in Glory in Heaven. That there, they rest from their Labours, and magnify his Mercies incessantly, who hath sent such Redemption unto their souls; That there they forget not their brethren upon Earth, but remember the Church Militant unto God. And sure, if there be a Communion of Saints, and a Fellowship betwixt those two main parts of the Tolu●, the Church of the Redeemed by the blood of jesus, Triumphant in the Heavens, and yet Militant here in Earth: Orant pro Nobis saltem in genere; those that enjoy the Fruit of their Labours now with God, are not Forgetful of their brethren behind, and not consummate in the Flesh. I insist not on this, it is not now questioned by the Opposites.  
But farther, they teach that the Saints in Heaven, make also Particular Intercession for us: that is, Some of them, for some of us here, which is, in my Opinion, though no point of Faith for which I would burn, yet true and certain in all credibility. But how it is limited or to be enlarged: how and in what sort and sense it is true, may appear more particularly upon the Process, Thirdly, that Saints and Holy Angels in Heaven, may be jointly or severally prayed unto: Many by many, by one, or some: One, by any one, or by many, which accordingly their People put in frequent practice, Chanting it every where, Ora pro me. The Council of Trent, that Oracle of the Roman Faith and Religion, resolveth thus. Sanctos Orationes suas pro hominibus De● offer. Bonum esse atque utile, suppliciter eos Inuocare. Ad eorum Orationes, opem, auxiliumque confugere. In some Generalities, as their manner is, leaving way and liberty for disputes abroad.  

And in this point not better to be answered, then; by taking away the ambiguity of the word Invocation.  For better Evidence in this point, the Question controversed, inter parts, may be limited, or rather explained thus. Invocation, as was touched, is a word of ambiguous signification; as most words are, because there are more things than words, Subsistances, then names to Call them by, It is taken specially for to Call upon me, as him upon whom we absolutely rely: at least ultimatè in that kind. It is also used for to Call unto, as to Helps, Assistants, or Advocates in suit, when in Time of Trouble and Necessity, we have Cause to come and Call on God, directing our Prayers ever, primâ intention unto him. When therefore we talk of Invocation of Saints, and dispute concerning praying unto Saints, we must understand Invocation so, as directed unto them only, as Assistants, and Mediators only of Intercession; and therefore not to be Invocated, or Called upon in the same sense and terms as God Almighty is, the Author and Donor of every good giving: nor to be implored as Christ jesus is, the only Mediator of Redemption, and Meritorious Advocate of Intercession. Therefore, having occasion and Cause, to Call upon me in time of trouble, they employ not Te add Me, Man unto God immediately, but do it secundariè, and by Mediators. This is not unlawful in itself. It is no exclusive, Call in thy own Person. For warrant and practice is for the Contrary. Orate pro Inuicem: is a Precept. The Church prayed for Peter, there is practise. But such Mediators they use in this Case, as are supposed not to be, apti nati: not accommodated to the purpose; not fitted or disposed to be employed in, and therefore incapable of that office of Intercession. Who if they were such as they take them to be, and it could appear plainly that such indeed they were, might very well be employed as Intercessors, none sooner, none better, or with more advantage than they every way: and happy such as could entreat their advocation, in regard of that great Grace & Favor they stand in with God: as also that affection they bear unto their brethren, & apprehension they have more than holy Angels have, or can have, through their own experience, of Tribulation.  
The Church of Rome is thus persuaded of them; therefore they use in all exegincies, and times of trouble, in all their addresses unto God for help and succour, to use the assistance of holy Saints and Angels: to have recourse into them, the blessed Virgin, Saint Peter, Saint Paul, that so they may find favour and acceptance at God's hands, to be heard and delivered the sooner in time of trouble. Herein they are persuaded that they do well and wisely, and with great advantage to obtain their desires. I am not yet so persuaded of this their use and practise: I see no reason yet to subscribe unto their doctrine; I may hereafter peradventure be of their mind, to say Sancta Maria ora pro me, though it be unlikely, and I do not think I shall, If any Roman Catholic, or all the Roman Catholics living, can evict by any one convincing demonstration: or bring but one irresistible argument, from Reason, Nature, or from Grace, Can prove it by Scripture so expounded by the Church, for five hundred years after Christ, So dogmatically concluded, by cases so ruled, by rules so given in general Counsels: or in Provincial or Nationall confirmed by General; By general consent and practice, so expressed and at full, in the use and evidence of that ancient Church to the determination and end of the Council at Chalcedon, about five hundred and fifty years after Christ: Finally, to give a little more advantage, by any one Father of credit amongst themselves, that dogmatically resolveth it, ut certum & d● fide, and I will subscribe, and say together with them, Orate pro me. He or they that dare and can, undertake this task, perform it, and I subscribe. Till then, my Resolution is and must be, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, as I have received so will I hold: 
Yet she is more cautelous, then Wise, to go about for Assistants, when she may go a nearer way without them.  It is not to be taught as a point of Faith, nor to be urged upon any with observation: nor to be tendered with Anathema to the gainsayer, nor to be practised necessarily. That it is builded up out of mere conjectures, and uncertainties; what they can do, and how fare prevail: and therefore it is folly for me or any man ordinarily to have recourse unto the Angels of God: or unto Saints at rest with God, ordinarily and in point of Piety and Devotion: to use them as Advocates and Mediators in my suits, to Call unto them to Call upon God: when myself that am then interessed principally, may commence my own Suits, commend my own Case, follow my own business, and effect my own purposes personally, being graciously invited to do it myself, and immediately directed unto God by himself, in Call upon me in time of trouble.  
I say it is Folly, and so it is, in extremity; 
Her opinion in this and many other points is not so fare from Atheism as her practice is near unto folly.  to Call unto them in such sort as is accustomed, in common sense of Reasonable men. For less ado by much would serve, then is made, in imploring this Saint and that: a surer and a more warranted course might be taken, then to go about, when we may go the nearer way. We are not certain at the best, what they do or can do for us in these cases, that are so employed and implored by us. I will not, I dare not be so harsh and rigorous, as to condemn them of Impiety for Calling unto them. For though more be done unto them, than is, fit or convenient: and more bestowed on them, at least by Consequence, then can consort with the Condition of their Creation: yet nothing is detracted there from the Creator, in giving them that they are not capable of.  
It is no general rule of necessary Consequence, They take from God, who overlavishly give any thing unto men. Thus it standeth in Case betwixt us and them, if we take them in the lump, at whole sale in their Doctrine, as it were. I cannot say it doth so, for their Practice, as if that also were so gently to be handled. In this, as in many other; if not in all points of Practic Piety, Practice and Precept, their Doctrine in Schools, and Discipline abroad, Coelo & Solo disparantur, are so much at odds in so many particulars, as if the one had not to do with the other: or they that did the one, were not the men interessed in the other. In their Doctrine of defrauding the People of the Cup in the holy Sacrament of the Altar, they plead it, and conclude it in Schools and Counsels, that the Cup must not be given unto the Laity: the People are to receive but in one kind. And yet their Practice is now, of what standing I know not, to give them also of the Wine, as I have been assured by some Roman Catholics I can name, my Neighbours, and it hath been averred by their Priests.  
Marry mark their juggling, and observe them convicted of foul Forgery: the Laity drink not of the Chalice, though they drink of the Wine of Consecration, poured out of the Chalice into a Glass, which peradventure altereth, in their opinion, the Property of the blood of Christ, and evacuateth the power, and efficacy of the words of Consecration. Whether this be so or not, I cannot swear, I have nothing but hearsay: that I have, and can name my Authors.  
In their Doctrine of Images they disclaim Idolatry indeed: and take the imputation with great offence, and as the most part of them do teach in their Books the use of Images, I see no cause to style them Idolaters. But sure the People's practice is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 next door unto it: very like it, if not the same. A man, one of their own for his Profession, 
Catholic Moderator.  a man of good account for his Experience, confesseth, that the vulgar, the greater part of men who understand no Greek, nor can tell what Latria or Dulia meaneth, comprehend not any other Mediocrity, then to Adore right down, or else not at all go to it bonâ fide; and with as much devotion adore our blessed Lady and other Saints now with God, as they do God Himself But be this, as it is, in their common Custom, it is grand Impiety, so confessed on both hands, to invocate any, beside Me. For it is a part of that Divine Honour, whereof God hath said, No man shall have it, because it is not Communicable to any Creature with or beside God. It is as good Blasphemy as can be committed in point of Practice, to Call upon, still I say upon, not unto, any other at all beside Me. For to Call upon any, emplyeth them to be the Authors Original, and Donors Principal (so much is intended by that Phrase) of the good implored at their hands. But to Call unto, that is to use in their Suits, unto God, in their Necessities and Exigences, beside God, Assistants, Advocates, and Mediators, Proctors unto God, Procurers from God of good things unto themselves; though it be not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 flat impiety, yet is it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 plain down right Folly. To beat the Bush while they may catch the Bird; To go about, when they may walk the near way home, to use much ado, when little help will serve, to imply Mediators when they need none: to pray and entreat the Porter for entrance, when they may go freely unto the Closet of the great King: to bribe a Servant to deliver a Petition, when the Lord doth Call for it out of their own hands. A plain Case, he may well be begged, that will run such an idle and wand'ring course.  
They suggest to persuade it from use and Congruity thus. In the Fashion and Practice of the World say they, Poor men that are Petitioners to Prince, or Potentate, to judge or justice, must be fain, and are enforced, that they may procure Favour and have good success, to make means, and so commonly to make Friends, and by their mediation come to speed, that otherwise might long enough attend, and it may be, returned without effect.  
They urge, that Kings have their Masters of Requests: their Cabinet Counsellors, Minions and Favourites in State, who prefer at their pleasure whom they please, and keep back whomsoever they do not affect; that they use to bestow Graces, and Offices by Recommendation. Great men most commonly attend not Dispatches in Person themselves, but turn Suitors over unto others: bid them come again to morrow, I have no leisure to day, go to my Man, give him your Petition, and at convenient leisure I shall peruse it. Answers immediate are not ordinary▪ with Persons that keep state, and stand upon terms of Distance and Disproportion. And what so great Distance or Disproportion say they, any where as here, in Case of intercourse betwixt God and Man; where is no common medium to make a mutual Commerce betwixt them? Thus they do plead plausibly, and make simple people believe much. As if it were and needs must be so with God as Man.  

And, it seems, they are willing to be fool themselves, i● us they cannot  But in this Fair show and carriage of comparison, our great Masters aut fallunt aut falluntur; wittingly and willingly they would deceive: or ignorantly they err not remembering the Nature and Practice of God: not considering his intimations of his will and good pleasure to us revealed. First, the Practice they produce, upon which they insist to persuade, is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so generally true, 
For, how weak is that, which they falsely urge as a perpetual practice with earthly Princes?  such a received ruled Case, as hath not suffered at all, contradiction. There are and have been always such as use it not. And no marvel, it is no Natural course of kind, that so it should pass for an universal Practice. It came in by abuse from the State and Pride of the Persian Monarches, from the lose licentiousness and Socordia of those Eastern Nations very Imperious in their Grandees, and men of authority, most servile and abject in their Peasants; With the Romans, an ingenious and Free People: with the Grecians, a civil and well disposed Nation, it was long ere this Servile Course came into practise. Augustus Caesar, upon occasion was requested of an old Soldier of his to afford him his Presence at hearing of a Cause he had; the Prince replied, he would depute one for him: which the Soldier, not used to such terms of putting off, or if you will, of Distance, answered him stoutly, But I sent no Substitute, O Emperor, to fight in thy quarrel at Philippi: I went myself, and adventured my life in Person, and am I put over to a Proxy? which Augustus acknowledging, with some blood in his face, went himself as he requested, and did not assign a Substitute to do it. In the Grecian Story it was as stoutly replied by one to Philip of Macedon, if I remember aright, who making this answer to a Petition, I have no leisure, received as free a return from the Petitioner, Noli ergo regnare, What dost thou with the Kingdom, or with a Crown, if thou have no leisure to dispatch and hear suits? And not to go beyond the surroundry of four Seas, we have a Precedent amongst our own Kings, that Princes give not all: nor yet dispatch every thing by mediation. He amongst our Kings, Qui coniunxit Rosas, that both knew and practised rights and points of State, as well as ever did any since his time, gave his Offices of Church and Commonwealth so freely and absolutely of himself, that He only took and deserved thankes if he gave them: Himself had the Benefit and Profit if he sold them. Mediators were not much in request in his time, not much employed, nor many things done by them as it seemeth. So this practice is not so certain.  
But to admit it an Eternal truth and universal Rule, 
Which if it were granted perpetual with them, would be no Argument to prove it so with God.  That intercession must be made, by Abettors unto great men and Mediators, that Princes never give dispatch but by deputation, as is pretended in the Persuasion: yet might they not hereupon infer by any good sequel or consequence, that thereupon, it hath been and must be so with God. For what are we unto Him, to invert the Argument? What is our Model unto his Making? The●e is and hath been ever, as Himself hath avowed it, a main disproportion and dissimilitude betwixt vias meas, and vias vestras: the ways of God, and the by-walkes of man. My ways, saith the Prophet, are of an other fashion. If then by so good warrant there be avouched such dissimilitude, 
There being so great disproportion betwixt them.  and disproportion betwixt God in his courses of communication, and man in his carriage to his Neighbour: we had need of as good a warrant to conclude this particular, Men do so, therefore it is God's course: or else, Tu quis es, What art thou O man, and where is thy Commission, that thus upon bare Presumption and no more, dost amussitare, square and rule out, the perfect and absolute proceed of God in Grace, by the Leaden and Lesbian Rule of humane use and practice? let him that can, show me forth his Warrant to do so: if none can, as I know none can, I dare not so slight nor under value this Direction and Invitation of his own, 
Therefore it is better to follow God's direction upon good ground in the Verse: then theirs upon none at all.  Call upon me. It is true, to disable Me, the Party invited, is but Dust and Ashes: No more was He that was called God's friend, and admitted to familiar conversation with Him. I confess with Gedeon, My Father is a poor man in Manasses, and I the least in my Father's house. But what of that, if God do● not disregard me? if he be pleased to have it, as is premised? Awful regard presumeth not boldly, nor hand overhead into the presence of a Prince, near unto the person of Him that is Verendâ maiestate conspicuus: But if a Prince be pleased to condescend so fare, it is scarce good manners then to keep aloof. Unless Adam did well to hide himself, when God called for him, Adam, where art thou? Sure it had been no wisdom nor discretion in Hester, to say no more, when Ahashuerus held out the Sceptre to invite her approach, to have kept off, fallen back, or interceded with Aman to speak for her unto the King. If this be not folly, tell me what is? For I know not.  
It is said, men may, and I know that oftentimes many do, 
For, as there may be reasons given, why it should be so with men: so this Verse may furnish us with as good reasons, why it should not be so with God.  wait long and attend for dispatches in Courts of Honour and justice, that have not good Means and Mediators for access, and diligent solicitors for dispatch. For State, for Conveniency, for Necessity, for Multiplicity of business, immediate access, immediate audience, immediate and quick dispatch is not ordinary with men. But God, as he is the Author of our good: So is he the Promotor thereof Himself. Call upon me, without mediation: I will hear thee myself, without Delegation. The Action is personal: the Invitation proper. No Substitute, Advocate, or Attorney. No Suit commenced from hand to hand, which often miscarieth in the carriage. I am sure no Petitioner will apply himself to means, who can have immediate dispatch: will address himself to Servants though of chiefest rank, as those of the Bedchamber to the King: or to the chief Favourite in the State, that toties quoties, may have free and personal access, without any Sir Oliver to impeach him: Who can have cheerful countenance at approach, without any Secondary to assist him: Gracious audience in petitioning, willing acceptance upon audience, and without long tarrying or much ado, good, expected, and quick dispatch. He that may do so, will not; if he understand himself aright, or his own strength, rely upon promise or performance of another, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, unless he have a Privilege to wear a Fool's Coat, but in person prosecute his own Cause.  
There is much in this Invitation Call upon me, to give satisfaction unto this Objection, 
It contains enough to satisfy all our desires, and all their objections in this case  the most in use, and most frequent in the mouths of the multitude. We do not observe any pause in the passage betwixt this Call, and I will hear. As if time would be required to answer Petition, as in course of Law upon Bill of Complaint; and a space, of Necessity or of Course, pass on betwixt Performance and Supplication; as if it could not be answered the same day. No Verse interlopeth 'twixt Hear, and Deliver, as if The King would advice first what to do: Whether Hear when we Call: or give no Audience, or Hear, give Audience, but not Deliver, deny dispatch. In exigent need, when we are at a pinch, at a stand, to advice and deliberate what to do, is a kind of denial. Bis that, qui citò dat, in extremities. God keep me from Sceptic in my necessity. Now in God's invitation and Direction in the point, there is only Actus continuatus as it were, Call, hear, deliver, with a breath. And no marvel. Such is his course, his custom such. Nescit tarda molimina Spiritus sancti gratia. When he cometh to deliver in time of trouble, he cometh on lustily, not gradu testitudineo. Can a man wish better success, or quicker success than Abraham's Servant had, who went immediately to the God of his Master Abraham? Go seek, inquire, return and come, it will appear true upon Search made, that never was he ashamed, because never deceived that took this course. He need not encumber himself with Attorneys: Be at great cost and charges to fee Pleaders at Bar: or entertain Solicitors with expense: but Himself in Person may become his own spokesman that dealeth with God, his own Mediator and Intercessor for Christ's sake. What soever is pretended in the course, use, and practice of the World: It is folly and madness in some degree at least, to entertain as they use, Necessity with Delays, or dally out Extremities, when we may be heard by God without more ado instantly, by ourselves.  
Secondly, they would persuade to say Sancta Maria ora pro me, and invocation to be used unto Holy Saints with God, because Angels have been prayed to as Mediators, and that without tax, rather with approbation. So that the persuasion supposeth as true, and taketh it as given, that whatsoever accrueth unto the Angels, is compatible also with the Spirits and Souls of the blessed Dead; of the Living with God: of the Righteous. And then proveth it factum by evidence of Text, that Angels have been called to in Devotions. And first concerning that supposition, the equal endowments of men and Angels.  
In this Question of Invocation, it is to be observed, that our great Masters in Israel, 
In this Question of Invocation, one main Fall●●re is, that they join Saints and Angels indifferently together.  of the Church of Rome, suggest unto us and put in the plea, Saints and holy Angels, indifferently, in distinguishedly, as if they were two words of one signification: as if there were no difference in the choice, to address ourselves unto one or other indeterminately; at any time, in any place, upon any exigent or occasion, both whom, and when, and as we please, as particular devotion, or some more private respects and affection shall lead us.  
So we find it ruled with negligence enough by the Master of Controversies to our hands. Sancti sive Angeli, piè & utiliter invocantur: the very decision of the Oracle of Trent. So they dispute without any scruple: as if there were no difference for the employment, nor any distinction of condition for the engagement: 
Not observing how much they differ both in employment, and condition.  when as Saints and Angels differ many ways: and Angels are set up 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉▪ in regard of men. For the Excellency of their nature, Nobility of kind, Extent of their ●●dowments. Use of their Employments, and worth of their Achievements, many ways, above and beyond the Sons of men. They are called Angels, from their Employments: and are Agentes in rebus, upon Earth unto God, upon course in kind ordinarily, and extraordinarily. Angels Liegiers, Angels Keepers, of men and Countries; Angels Messengers upon occasions. Saints in Paradise are nor so nor so, sent, employed at any hand. They have their Habitacula, their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Mansions: not Free among the dead, to go and walk at liberty as they will: to perform Service in attendance upon God's Employments, except peradventure upon peculiar Dispensation, some one or other, at some one time or other, 
Unless upon peculiar dispensation of employment.  hath been dispensed with for egress è receptaculis, and for some extraordinary Dispensation: as Moses and Elias, at the Interview with Christ upon Mount Tabor. One in a Million, in long tract of Time happily hath had such unusual Employment: whereas Angels are messengers ordinarily, by prime institution in their kind. So that the Case being different betwixt these two people: Holy Saints and Angels, not in one allotment; were it commanded, were it lawful or expedient to Call unto Holy Angels in time of trouble; yet can it not ex aequo be inferred, we may therefore Call unto Holy Saints as well, and in semblable sort.  
To prove the supposition of Equality betwixt them every way, 
Which spoils that conclusion out of Matth. 22.  it is alleged out of Matth. 22.30. that by evidence of our Saviour Himself, the Saints are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, equal with Angels every way: go hand in hand with those blessed Spirits, so many ways Transcendent in Nature and Employment.  
Thus it is alleged by the Master of Controversies as well as by others to this purpose and intent, 
Or rather the collusion out of that Text.  but falsely and with much Collusion. For the Text is no way to the purpose of any such equality of Saints and Angels.  
First, there is a mere disagreement in time. Our quaere, is only de praesenti. What, 
In regard of the disagreement in time.  and in what state the Saints are at present, not yet reunited unto their Bodies: It is not questioned, it is not to purpose, what they shall be hereafter in Time to come. It is questioned what Power they are of for Intercession now, when we do, or may stand in need of Assistance, to be heard and delivered in time of Trouble. What is it to our purpose what they shall be hereafter, when we stand in no need of their Assistance any more, nor of Recommendation unto the Majesty of Heaven? We with them, and they with us alike interessed in God, and both alike partakers of that blessed state, which shall never be changed, not so much as accosted, with any time of trouble. The Power they are of; the Profit to be had by them, is for time of this Life, and God's dispensation with us in this present world, wherein our necessities are often very great and urgent, and sore extremities are upon us many ways. It must needs be then an idle discourse in them: an halting and a lame Conclusion, nothing to purpose, not able to persuade, that disputeth and proceedeth from what Shall be hereafter in Time to come, after judgement, to that which is now in use, and being in the old World. Many things are now, which shall not be then, when as all things shall become new; and what is now shall not be then, when we, and all shall be changed. So that, First the place of Scripture is not to purpose in regard of Time.  
Secondly, less in respect of Subject: It is another thing of a different Nature, 
In respect o● Sub●ect our Saviour himself 〈…〉 that 〈◊〉 to the present 〈◊〉.  which there particularly is insisted on. Our Saviour in that passage doth precisely and punctually direct his speech unto the Sadduces, those jewish Atheists and Epicures, that denied the Resurrection of the dead; and to prove their impious assertion, Put a Case, as they imagined, of absurd Inference, if there were granted a Resurrection: A woman there was that had seven husbands in her life: to whom shall she appertain at the Resurrection? It is answered, To none of them as wife. For in that other world, is no more man or wife, marrying, or giving in marriage, but Men are like Angels. Then like Angels. At the Resurrection, the Saints of God become 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, then, and not before, equal to the Angels. So precisely he speaketh of the Time to come: these persuaders allege it for the present. Secondly, not then alike, per omnia, point per point, no not in the Kingdom of God in glory. Our Saviour nor said, nor yet meant so. Amongst men shall continue Male and Female, in distinction of Sex as now; Angels nor are nor shall be Male and Female. Men shall never become Spirits, as Angels are: nor Angels have flesh, and bones, and be clothed with their skin, as men shall be. For then there is no Resurrection of the dead, if Bodies raised up out of their dusts to Life, be not the same again which sometime they were. Different Natures, Men and Angels, must necessarily have distinct Natural Proprieties. Accidents do follow the condition of those Substances in which they are. In qualities and Endowments of kind, as well as in formal being and Subsisting; Men and Angels shall differ, and be distinguished after the Resurrection. Therefore not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 like Angels in every point; and if not so, how in this of Endowment, unless peculiar warrant can be showed? To conclude, our Saviour limited that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Equality of Holy Saints, after the Resurrection unto Angels, unto one thing only, and no more; one particular alone and no more: that whereof the present quaere then was, marrying after the Resurrection, or remaining man and wife. Even in this particular not being married, not giving, or being given in marriage; Saints shall be then, but are not as yet equal unto the holy Angels. So, the issue is: 
So that the equalit●● is many ways nothing to the purpose.  They are like in one thing only, not in all: that One thing is not, hath nothing to do with, this thing. Nor are they yet alike in that one thing they shall be hereafter, are not now. And we must be answered for now, not then: for the Present, not the Future, or to come. So the Evidence is 〈◊〉 and speaketh not to purpose, neither for Particular, nor for Time.  

Thou 〈◊〉 was of 〈◊〉 purpose falsified by the Controversor.  Faulty, and falsified also voluntarily. The Controversor for readeth the Text thus, Sunt aequales Angelis, are equal at present unto the Angels: whereas the Gospel hath it, as our Saviour spoke and meant it, de futuro, of the Time to come: Erunt aequales Angelis, are the words of the Text, Shall be equal unto the Angels. That he meant to corrupt it, appeareth by his Gloss, 
A● appeareth b● his gloss there.  a notorious lie, Imprimis nihil deest eorum quae Angeli habent, quantum ad hoc munus. They want not now any thing at all, wherewith Angels be endowed, as much as appertaineth to this employment. An assertion most false in itself, and directly crossed, by a contrary assertion of Himself, and his Complices in this very point of Invocation. For in point of Information, whereby Saints departed come to understand our Needs and Necessities, our Cases, and States, when we implore their help and assistance unto God, this is one, that the Angels, Agentes in rebus, in the Church on earth with men, as ordinary Agents, or employed occasionally, do inform and give knowledge thereof unto Saints. 
Which himself elsewhere contradicts.  Which supposal of such Information from them, be it true or false, vain and imaginary, or real and indeed, I dispute, I question, I care not, doth of necessity enforce a disproportion and, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the Saints unto the Angels; against the resolution, of our great Master here, 
(As his fashion is.)  whose custom is to serve himself for the present purpose, to put by the thing that presseth him, he careth not how: and so that he may serve his turn then, and rid his fingers of present trouble, respecteth not what he hath said elsewhere, or what will ensue upon his assertions, then and there. In common sense and Reason he that informeth another's ignorance, and giveth him to understand what he understood not, is superior, at least in point of Information; and so, 
Granting the Angels superior, in point of information.  Aliquid eis deest eorum quae Angeli habent, quantum ad hoc munus, precisely: the flat Contradictory to his Position. Saints and Angels are not equal, no not in this: and therefore also the Question is ill stated by Him and his, touching Invocation of Saints or Angels; as if there were no terms of inequality or disproportion betwixt them at all.  

We may easily 〈◊〉 why it 〈…〉 wi●h him, both to contradict himself,  I wonder not at this Contradiction: For mendaces are seldom memores: Forgers and Faulsers cannot carry things so cleanly, but at sometime or other they will discover and betray themselves. For as in Truth, one part is Comportable and Compliable with another, so falsehood ever doth dash against itself, hewing hoof against hoof. They agree not long with and amongst themselves, that conspire together against God and Truth. But let them be lumped or consorted as they would have it, as they please, let holy Saints and Angels, even now at present, before the Resurrection, go hand in hand together, passibus aequis, in all points: or if yet they will let Saints in some sort be Superior unto Angels, to further the Case of Invocation: That is, both being apt and disposed, and fitted to pity and compassionate, to help and relieve our necessity and needs: let Saints have this Prerogative, to commiserate sooner, and assist readier, and help effectualler, as they plead for them, because they are more near unto, and conjoined with us then Angels are, as being members together with us of Christ, flesh of his flesh, and bone of our bone. As having felt themselves, being yet in the Flesh, those miseries of Mankind, whereof Angels had never experimental knowledge or trial: let it be granted that thereupon in these regards, they are more likely to put to for our assistance, extremum potentiae, the utmost extent of their best endeavours, according to that well known and approved saying in the Poet, Non ignara mali miseris succurrere disco. Let it be added, that what they entreat for, they shall obtain it at God's hands; God will not deny them, whom he heareth always when they Pray unto Him: yet are all these but fair Pretexts and pretences, and Circumductions; nothing material to the point in Question: 
And to ●oaue from the Question.  only brought in to make a show, to dazzle the gazer with imaginations: and so to lead men off from that which indeed is to be proved, 
As appears in this particular.  to pitch upon things that are not questioned, as will appear in particular more precisely. The Question is, Whether Saints may be called unto, to Call upon God for us in distress. The reason is; It is doubted whether they can hear when we call. The main to be proved will be this, They can, and that ordinarily, at any time, in any place, any men or man. Hic Rhodus, hic saltus: these are to be made good, and then we yield. Prove them, and I will say as well as any Romanist, Sancta Maria, ora pro me. But because they do wander whom we must follow; 

Therefore, since we can 〈◊〉 follow them the right way into the Question: let us hu●t them out of their by paths. And first for the practice of praying to Saints.  
In jacobs' practice they can nei●h●r find Invocation,   have after them in their by-paths whatsoever: and first unto Praying to Angels, in Practice, and upon Record, as is supposed in holy Writ, for practice long ago, before the Law.  
jacob lying on his deathbed prayed to an Angel, Gen. 48.16. Angelus qui eruit me de cunctis malis, benedicat pueris istis. Hic apertè S. jacob Angelum invocavit: saith Bellarmine in the point; The Angel that delivered me out of all evil and adversity, bless these children. Here it is apparent that holy jacob invocateth the Angel. Not so apparent, I wis Sir, as is supposed, either for Invocating in general, or for Invocating an Angel by holy jacob. Not for Invocation, we find no Ora pro istis, here by way of address, or directed Supplication: not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, so much as any terms of Compellation, Thou Angel which hast kept me Preserve them; or assist them with thy help, furtherance, and prayers: which should have been if it were to purpose: For saith the Master of Controversies himself, Non debere peti à Sanctis, nisi ut orent pro Nobis, All we can, or must ask of Saints is, That they would pray for us. And therefore it is professed and protested by the Persuaders themselves, that they never go beyond degree of Compellation thus, Sancta Maria, ora pro Nobis: and herein they say right; they should not go farther, most what they do not: at least their meaning is no more but so. Secondly, this passage of jacob is not to the Angel, it is concerning him: 
Nor Invocation of an Angel.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 merely by way of wish and desire, not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by way of Supplication. jacob relateth what the Angel had done for him all his life time: and wisheth he would do as much for them his grand children, Ephraim, and Manasses, the sons of joseph. A wish or desire, that such, or such a good thing, and happy success may be, is no Prayer unto the thing that it would be so. Unless we imagine, and as well we may, that Balaam prayed unto his own Soul, when in the Self same form that jacob wisheth here, he desired, Moriatur anima mea morte justorum. Let my Soul die the death of the righteous, and let my latter end be like unto his. Or David prayed unto the Angel, when he saith, Let the Angel of the Lord persecute them. He prayed that it might be: not to him to do it. No more doth jacob in this place.  
Thirdly, had it been an express and direct prayer, Let it be read, 
Unless of such an Angel, which only may be prayed unto.  Thou Angel which hast delivered me, bless them. Yet our Persuaders are never the nearer, but out of the way. For this Angel might be prayed unto, and yet not every Angel so: nor yet Saints invocated accordingly. For howsoever Saints are unto other Angels, this Angel is paramount to them, infinitis parasangis: and transcendent unto all Angels beside. He is Angelus foederis, that Angel of the Covenant in the Prophet. Not Angelus Domini, an Angel of the Lord: but Angelus Dominus, The Lord that Angel, Christ jesus himself; no Created Angel, that jacob meant and intended here; who indeed had preserved him in all his ways, and kept him safe in his going out, and returning home, from Esau his Brother; Laban his Uncle; in his own Country, and in a foreign Land. That found him in Bethel, and spoke with him there: Ose 12.4. That Angel mentioned formerly, Chap. 31. Vers. 11. and explained, Vers. 13. I am the God of Bethel, where thou anointedst the pillar, and where thou vowedst a vow unto me. Thus the Fathers of old understood that Scripture, 
As the Fathers also of old understood it.  from the first Infancy of the Church: not of any Created Angel, Custos; but of Christ, God, Creator of Men and Angels. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. He, 
Page 71.  an Angel, God and Lord, saith justine the Martyr, disputing with Trypho the jew, appeared unto Abraham in humane shape; was seen of jacob in the Form and Figure of man. Wrestling with him, as is recorded, in his return from Mesopotamia, at such time as he met with his brother Esau, and at his going up to Bethel. And more precisely comprehending all other apparitions, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, it was he, the same, and no other, who was seen of, and appeared unto the Patriarches of old. God, and also Lord of all, howsoever called Angel there. Thus that holy Writer, Vir Apostolicorum temporum, who pricked fast on upon the Apostles time, if he did not know some of them in the Flesh. Athanasius hath a discourse unto the purpose, and therein is peremptory, that He was Christ. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 etc. 
Orat. 4. 〈…〉. 260.  If so be that the Patriarch jacob, in blessing his Nephews, Ephraim, and Manasses, said thus, The Angel that delivered me out of all adversity, and nourished me from my youth up, until this day, bless these children: yet he doth not there couple or compose any one Created and Natural Angel with God, Him that was Creator of all Angels. Nor doth he forget and by pass him, of whom he had been nourished from his youth up until then, that is God, and desire a blessing for his Nephews from an Angel. But in phrasing it thus, That hath delivered me out of all adversity, he plainly showeth, that he did not intent any Created Angel, but insisted upon the ground of the Word of God, whom he coupleth with the Father in praying unto Him, By whom God delivereth whom he will deliver, knowing that he was, as sometime he called, The Angel of the great Counsel of the Father. jacob professeth it was He, and no other beside Him, that had delivered Him out of all adversity, and had hitherto delivered Him, and blessed Him also. Nor was it his meaning, by Prayer to obtain a blessing for Himself at God's hand, and to put over his Nephews to be blessed by Angels. But he prayeth unto him to bless his Nephews, unto whom Himself had sometime said, I will not let thee go except thou bless me, and without all question this was God, as himself professeth and affirmeth plainly, I have seen God face to face. It may seem this Champion of Christ undertook his Master's cause in this, as he did in the main, against some Angel adorer in those days: so fully he discourseth upon the point, at this day denied by Victorellus and others, Beu-pleaders for Invocation and worship of Saints & Angels so frequent with them: For after other discourses he concludeth thus, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. It was therefore none other, but the Lord God himself that appeared and said unto him; Lo I am with thee, I do keep thee, and preserve thee in thy way wherein thou walkest continually. I could father enlarge upon the point out of others, but I writ not Commentaries, nor Common-places. In opinion of Antiquity and sense of the Church, Christ jesus was that Angel that jacob meant: and it is apertè false, and a forgery, which Bellarmine avoucheth, Hic apertè Sanctus jacob, invocavit Angelum. In opinion of Antiquity, as in Evidence of truth, this Angel was no Created Spirit, but God Himself. Lastly, at least if He were an Angel, He was not any other but his guardian Angel: For the words in the Text do employ the office of his Angel guardian; The Angel that hath kept me from my childhood; unto whom now, being to go the way of all flesh, he might intent to put over his two young Nephews, the Sons of joseph. Mistake me not, I say not he, meant his Angel guardian; For I am fully resolved with the old Fathers, He meaneth Christ: but to suppose and grant He was an Angel, he could then be no other but his Guardian Angel, which will not pleasure the Persuaders in their plea at all. For in this present question touching Invocation, the Case of Angels Guardians is peradventure different, much and many ways, from the condition, and employments of them at large. The conclusion is then, jacob did not implore the help or patronage of any Angel here, 
jacob then cannot help the ● purpose.  nor have we any Precedent in jacobs' practice for our address in necessity or other ways, in point of assistance by Invocation unto Saint or holy Angels whomsoever. Nor is this Text of Scripture to the purpose.  

I 〈◊〉 they will 〈…〉.  They proceed and produce the fift of job, Verse 1. for an Instance, or Precept for Invocation. Call now if there be any to hear, and unto which of the holy Saints and Angels wilt thou turn thee? Thus they enlarge upon the Text, adding for explication, and Angels, which is not there. For by Saints they tell us, Saint Augustine there understandeth Angels. A needless allegation of Saint Augustine howsoever: for if Saints were only men and not Angels, ye if the allegation be as they would persuade, the Text is to purpose, I deny not. The resolution being laid down once for all, that in this question Angels and Saints go passibus aequis for Invocation. But so and not so it mattereth not: Nor Saints are able, nor yet Angels to relieve Him, or to understand Him when he calleth in time of Trouble. Siquis est qui respondeat, 
For, it rather make 〈◊〉 against them, and 〈…〉.  is as much in effect, as Nemo est qui respondeat. There is no help for thee in any one of them: therefore if thou call, it is to no purpose: as good an inducement as may, for Call upon Me, Turn thee unto them. Call upon them, though never so loud, so often, so effectually, it is in vain, They can neither help nor hear. The man that doth this, may take up that saying to himself, job 19.14 My familiar friends have forgotten me, and well take up that saying. For if that speech of job 19.21. Miseremini mei amici mei, Have compassion upon me my friends, because it runneth out in terms of Invocation, must be understood of the Angels of God, as our great Masters do pretend; then Angels, those very Friends by jobs own verdict, are to no purpose called upon. For Verse 19 he complaineth again, All mine inward friends have abhorred me. Such unfortunate Undertakers are these great Masters in Israel, that contrary to Rules in their own Schools, do for want of better evidence in a desperate Case, make speeches metaphorical argumentative, and derive demonstrations from Similitudes, which may indeed illustrate and explicate, but prove 〈◊〉  
But to grant which is not proved, 
Nay, suppose those words of job understood as they would have them: yet was it, if any at all, but a dispensatory action.  were Sancti Angeli in this passage, did God actually counsel and advice job, or permit him only to make some Angel his Mediator; yet what of that? It was by way of dispensation. A passage not usual, but permitted unto him extraordinarily. And courses of that kind, extraordinary, and dispensatory actions are not for us. Therefore nothing is proved by any of them. Upon that supposition it might be (I say not it was so, I am persuaded otherwise) that some Angel in particular might repair unto Him, converse with Him, unto whom job then might, why not, use such words of Invocation or Intercession, as to his Friend, desire his help and assistance thus or thus, which advanceth the use and approbation of Invocation, than Moses and Elias apparition in Glory upon Mount Tabor, the lewd and loud Lies that are coined daily in the Church of Rome of apparitions by the blessed Virgin at Lauretto, Sichem, to Ignatius Loyola, or such like; or the Miracles of Eliseus do justify, the supposed Forgeries, Miracles I should say, of that grand Impostor the Pampelonian Soldier Loyola, enroled of late in the Calendar of Saints, more likely by fare, to be a firebrand in Hell.  

And as they prove nothing from the practice of jacob and job: neither can they from any other.  I conclude, Show me it written in the Scriptures of the house of Israel, Old or New, that I should, I may address myself by Prayer or Intercession unto any Angel: point me out any practice, though practice be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 very ticklish in point of Piety to go further, so used or so supposed to be used, by any one Writer for the time prefixed, viz. to the Council of Chalcedon, & herbam porrigam, I will yield and say, Sancte Angele ora pro me. If not, if none be, or can be alleged Positive to the point in question, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Adieu Angels intercessors to be invocated, it is but sopperie which is pretended. I would not willingly transgress the Ancient bounds, nor violate the precincts and limits Antiquity hath set. I know not any that practised this part of Piety to make holy Angels their Mediators, and said in their Devotions with allowance, Sancte Angele ora pro me.  
But yet De Angelo custode fortassis ampliandum. 
But whatsoever we deny for other Angels, perhaps they would plead more pro Angelo custode.  Where a little to enlarge and express myself in this, being charged publicly and in print, for I confess, I am the party intended though not named, by that infamous Ecebolius of these times, and impious Renegado, I speak what I know, the unworthy Archbishop of Spalleto, in a public Audience, and that before his Majesty at Windsor, to have affirmed expressly in a Sermon, 
And hope to evince it out of my own mouth.  That there was no cause why every faithful man should not turn himself unto his Angel Keeper, and say, O holy Angel Keeper pray for me. I do avouch in verbo Sacerdotis, that those words never passed the hedge of my lips, I never spoke them as I know, and have been assured, his most sacred Majesty can well remember. And who is this uncircumcised Philistine to be believed before the Lords Anointed? The truth is this, Preaching at Windsor upon this present passage, Call upon me, being then my course in that Church, and the words, Sermo diei in die suo, read in the Church at Prayer that day, which is and shall be my custom most what to preach upon, as the Ancients used, to take some Text of the day, and somewhat enlarging by occasion upon this practic part of that Roman Faith, and Tridentine prescription for Invocation 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to show the folly thereof, In process, falling on Angelical intimation and assistance in the point, I used these very words, nor more nor fewer, 
Which was never opened to that purpose.  De Angelo Custode fortassis Ampliandum. Which so spoken the man might understand well enough, For I spoke them in Latin, and he was present, whatsoever else was spoken was in English, which, I am sure, he understood not at all, unless his Angel Keeper, or Devil attendant, did expound them to him.  

Nor could it make any thing to their main purpose if it were spoken,  Had I then so concluded touching Angelum custodem: yet Quid hoc ad Iphicli boves? The Angel Keeper is not to be remembered upon equal terms with Angels of Commission extraordinary. Nor turning unto Him with Pray for me, unto imploration of their aid, who have no such commission ordinary as he hath, but are all upon employments extraordinary. Nor any more affinity with the business in question, than Alexander the Coppersmith that wrought Saint Paul much vexation, had with Alexander of Macedon who so much troubled the whole World. It is an opinion received, and hath been long that if not every man, each son of Adam, yet sure ●ach Christian man regenerate by water and the holy Ghost, at least from the day of his Regeneration and new birth unto God, if not from the time of his coming into the World, hath by God's appointment and assignation, an Angel Guardian to attend upon him at all assays, in all his ways, at his going forth, at his coming home. Who though he go invisibly, and assist insensibly, as his Nature is, yet is supposed to attend upon us, to be present with us continually: Parum est fecisse Angelos tuos, fecisti & Custodes paruulorum, who Continually behold the face of their Father in Heaven. This being supposed to be so: 
So that it were also rightly understood.  It being resolved that he doth not leave us at all, the time of our life: it being believed, that he is evermore present at hand, and near unto us: under correction, to say now, which I said not then, I see no absurdity in Nature, no incongruity unto Analogy of Faith, no repugnancy at all unto sacred Scripture: much less impiety for any man to say, Sancte Angele custos ora pro me. This in private discourse I might say unto him, talking upon this, as we did upon many other particulars, disputed of betwixt the sides of Protestant and Roman Catholics. It is no impiety, it can be no foolery thus to resolve, only upon the former supposition. For as to my Brother, or to my Friend at hand, near unto me, I may say, Good Friend, or good Brother, let me have your good Prayers unto God for me: so good Angel Keeper pray for me, supposing him present, and always at hand, as, if he be Guardian perpetual he must be. And therefore Caluine observeth against this Roman tenet of Invocation, 
Nor if we granted Invocation for all Angels, as well as this, would th●t 〈◊〉 the Invocation of Saints.  that the case is not the same betwixt Angels and Saints, because Angels are appointed, which Saints are not, and deputed to protect us, though in particular he grant no Angel Custos. It is true, that Invocation of Saints is a point of Foolery, it being, at least uncertain, whether they are, and in what manner they can be, acquainted with our wants, seeing their condition is not to attend us, and they are removed fare above our reach and Call, 
Though for them we grant not: for the Angel Guardian we might better grant it.  though we call unto them never so often or so loud: but the case of Angel Guardians is fare different, being ever in procinctu, nigh at hand unto us, continually, and never abandoning us all our days. If myself, at London should say unto a friend at Constantinople or in the Indies, Sir help me, I might be laughed at deservedly for my folly. This case cometh home to their practice of Invocation. But if I speak unto him that is present with me, standeth by me, to help and assist me, I commit no absurdity in Reason, nor in Piety. And this upon supposal of Angel Keepers, which I urge not as a point of belief or Piety, 
We do not urge 〈◊〉 certain truth.  the case itself of Angel Keepers is not so resolved: but only mention, as of congruity, because it is most probable there are such Keepers. If thus myself resolved, do infer, Holy Angel Keeper, pray for me, I see no reason to be taxed with point of Popery or Superstition, much less of absurdity or impiety. But be this as may be: Salus Reipublicae non vertitur in istis: a man may go to Heaven that useth it, and he that denyeth it may go thither also, as likewise they may, hoc non obstante, go either of them the contrary way, to the contrary place; through breach or observation of things of an higher nature, and greater allay tendered unto us under that strict form, Believe this and live.  
But to return to our Persuaders for Prayer unto Saints, 
But, whatsoever we grant or deny, they are eloquent Orators, for the Invocation of Saints too.  they use to tell us many long and plausible Discourses, of the happy and blessed estate of the Saints in Heaven: of the fruition and enjoying of his presence in Glory, with whom is the fullness of joy, at whose right hand is pleasure for evermore. They discourse of their Charity and good affection unto us their Brethren militant in the Church upon earth, the great desire they have to do us good: their readiness to help and to assist us at need: The grace and favour they are in with God, and the possibility they have to be heard in their desires, and to have whatsoever they ask granted to them. As if it were questioned at all by us, whether quoad statum they did see God or not: or were as yet, quoad locum, in Heaven with God or no. Some have doubted of both in the Church of Rome I grant, especially for statum more material of the two: as john 22. and that Renegado, a man of no Religion, as appeareth by his own Profession, nor Conscience, who publicly taught little less than this, not by way of Problem, but Position, as I am more particularly assured of it, who dissuaded him from doing so, but he would not hear me. We make question of neither Place or State, but in Faith and full assurance hold them partakers and possessed already of that state of happiness and glory with Christ jesus, 
Urging what we do not deny de ●oco, & s●atu,  who in the highest Heavens, sitteth at the right hand of God in Glory, which winneth infallibly, leadeth indeclinably, holdeth inseparably unto and with God. Foelix anima, as Saint Augus;tine meditateth upon this state and condition of the Righteous: Quae terreno corpore resoluta, libera Coelum petit, secura est, & tranquilla: Non timet hostem neque mortem. Habet enim praesentem, cernitque indesinenter Dominum Deum pulcherrimum, sui seruivit, quem dilexit, & ad quem tandem laeta & gloriosa pervenit. But what is this to purpose, 
But to no purpose.  their being with God, enjoying God, prevailing with God, loving us? to the purpose of ordinary power to assist us: & practice of Intercession to mediate for us? What is i● to me what another is in himself, if it be not otherwise add me, that I receive some benefit or advantage? Not any of these, nor all these endowments and achievements come home to the point of power and possibility, ordinarily to hear the Petitions of any, at any time, in any place, necessarily required, and to be assured before I can say; Ora pro me.  
Nor is it to purpose or for advantage, that they come in upon the Seconds with a fair Discourse unto Novices and their Proselytes, of that love and dear affection which they bear unto their Brethren. And therefore doubt not, 
And, with as little success, discoursing of their dear affection to us.  say they, as if this were questioned, or to the purpose, but they wish, and will, and what they can most readily procure, quantum in ipsis, as much as they can, and they can do much, whatsoever in God may stead them or do them good. They love us indeed, no question of that: and so consequently, according unto the nature of love in the effects thereof, will, and wish, and seek the good of those whom they love. Their love is now greater being in Heaven, unto man, than ever it was or could be when and while they lived upon Earth. For Charity is transcendent in those celestial Citizens. And therefore no question they pray for men upon earth. But how? and for whom? All Christians in general: their Brethren as yet in great tribulation: the Church militant upon the face of the Earth. This they know: the state of these, and their necessities are known to them in Heaven: and upon knowledge they do commiserate them: and Commiseration procureth Intercession, else were there no Communion of Saints: no bond betwixt the militant and triumphant Church. In specie, for those Churches whereof themselves were parts, noble and lively members yet being in the flesh: as more interessed there then otherwhere. For if charity be ordinate here upon earth: diliguntur alieni, magis proxi●●i, maximè proprij; It cannot be imagined to be disordinate, it is not sure irregular in Heaven: where order is most of all especially regarded, as the Place and Persons, where and by whom Gods will is performed so absolutely, as that by the Doctor of Israel in his perfect pattern of Prayer, we are thither addressed for imitation, thus, Thy Will be done in Earth as it is in Heaven. But so for those ordinarily and of common course, as that which they pray for is the general good of all, not the particular interest of any one. Thus Gregory Nazianzene was persuaded himself, but did not press others to believe it, that his deceased Father then with God did specially intercede for his particular flock. 
Orat. 19 pag. 288.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. I am verily persuaded and believe that my Father now with God, and the rather because he is with God, doth by mediating and interceding with God for you, do you more good, and stand you in greater stead by his prayers, than he did while he lived amongst you by his Doctrine. This is the common voice with general concurrence, without contradiction of reverend and learned Antiquity, for aught I ever could read or understand, and I see no cause or reason to descent from them touching Intercession, in this kind.  
I add in particular yet somewhat farther. 
(To which we had rather add then detract from it.)  Those with God, may and do recommend unto God in their celestial Prayers, their kindred, friends, and acquaintance upon Earth, whom they knew, in whose love and familiarity they had interest yet being in the flesh, & with whom they had conversed more reservedly. But no other sort and manner for them then only for such instant and exigent necessities. 
But, in reference to what they were here acquainted withal.  For such causes, occasions, and employments, as being yet in vivis, and conversant with them, they knew of, understood, and were acquainted withal or interessed in, and have not forgotten being Resiants in those heavenly habitations, and all tears wiped away from their own eyes. For the Soul of man separated from the Body by Death, and subsisting alone in all freedom, 
Which they cannot but retain in memory.  happiness, and content with God, cannot be thought to impair or suffer loss in any endowment natural or acquisite, which tend to perfection of state and being: and I speak and intent this of those endowments formerly had in time of life. For, as concerning those newly acquired, accrueing in, and to the state they then enjoy with God, speak they that can tell, if yet they can tell what they speak. Nor is it so strange. For if that those who are restored again by Christ, and raised up from the dust of the earth, to live with him in glory, in the day of restauration of all by Christ and retribution of the Righteous, shall perfectly know, and take notice of, those whom they never knew nor saw, perchance nor heard of in the flesh, as being post-nati unto them so many hundreds or thousands of years: If they shall know Adam, Seth, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, all the Patriarches, Prophets, Apostles: how can they forget the names and notions of them, with whom they conversed so many years? From whose society and company they so lately departed? unto whom they imparted of their own secrets, and with whose counsels they were acquainted? with whom so long they lived together serving one God together as friends? Dives in Hell, where the Soul, if any where, 
Since even the souls in hell can do it.  loseth her endowments, knew Abraham whom he had never seen in Earth, and acknowledgeth him to be the Author of his stock and people the jews. Dives in Hell, had not forgot the number and condition of his Brethren on earth, and was also careful and mindful of them, lest they should come into that place of torment. Whether it be an History, as Tertullian and many other suppose, or else a Parable, as others rather think: yet even so it will come home to purpose. For parables are not Chimeras, or speculations merely: but deduced from condition of things that be. He saw him as he could, with his understanding; he took notice of him, with his understanding: He lost not the memory of the things he had; who acquired the knowledge of what he had not. Had he lost what he had, it had been in vain for Abraham to have said, Son remember, Ex hac parabola discimu●, well resolveth Euthymius, quòd in futuro saeculo non solùm peccatores vident bon●s, & boni peccatores, sed ●g●●scunt etiam igrotos. Nam Dives ab Abraham c●g●osc●tur, & Lazarus à reprobo epulons, saith Gregory. Nor will, nor effects of will are extinguished in them: either Natural, in good things, as the rich man desired his brethren's good, or Deliberative in bad, as being immutable unto good. And doubtless if in Carcare, it be retained, much more it is eminent in palatio. The Saints in glory have a greater portion, Glory being the Perfection of Grace, and Grace the advancer of Nature, than the Reprobate in Hell can enjoy, of the acts and perfections of the Soul.  
Upon this ground and persuasion of the Souls endowments, Celerinus in Cyprian, writeth unto Lucianus, a man ready to be offered up in persecution, thus: Rogo itaque Domine & peto per Dominum nostrum jesum Christum, ut caeteris Collegis tuis fratribus mejs & Dominis referas & abijs petas, ut quicunque prior vestrûm coronatus fuerit, istis Sororibus nostris Numeriae & Candidae tale peccatum remittant. I entreat and beseech you sir, by our Lord jesus Christ, that you speak unto the rest of your Colleagues, and Fellow Confessors, my Brethren and Masters in Christ, and entreat them that whosoever shall first obtain the Crown of Martyrdom, ask and procure forgivennesse of this Sin, unto our Sister's Candida and Numeria. This indeed Cyprian hath by way of Relation, remembering the practice of another man: but He himself in another place out of his own judgement, maketh this request for himself; Mementote tunc mej, cum in vobis virginitas honoratur. And he maketh this agreement and compact with Cornelius, Bishop of Rome, and holy Martyr▪ That whether of them twain should departed this life first, should remember his companion left behind, and recommend his estate unto God in Heaven. In his 57 Epistle thus. Concords atque vnanimes utrobique pro nobis semper oremus: pressuras & angustias mutuâ charitate relevemus. Et siquis isthine nostrum prior divinae dignationis celeritate praecesserit, perseveret apud Dominum nostra dilectio pro fratribus ac sororibus apud misericordiam Patris non cesset Oratio. And answerable to this, out of the same persuasion is that of Hierome, where he putteth Heliodorus in mind, what he would have him do for him after death. Tunc & parentibus eiusdem civitatis scispetes, & pro me rogabis qui te ut vinceres induxi. He prayeth not to him being dead, but adviseth him what to do when he is dead; Remember his Friend upon Earth left behind, and Recommend his Cause unto the Almighty: which is nothing to the Roman Invocation of Saints (if yet Saints) altogether unknown and unacquainted with any of us in their Life time.  
Thus fare we may go peradventure safely, in Negotiation betwixt the Saints dead and alive, and that through every species and kind of Prayer and Supplication. Intercession for good to be obtained. 
Neither do we only grant this memory: but, if they will a more peculiar care, and charge of their friends here.  Deprecation of evil to be avoided; giving God thankes for good obtained and received. I add yet further, peradventure some Saint or Saints departed, may have more special care of, interest in, charge over, some men or man, Country, or Countries, then is used ordinarily, or others commonly have by usual disposition; out of some special dispensation, peculiar deputation, out of ardent affection, religious devotion, or some like other regard best known and approved unto God, in his secret counsel and purpose, in some extraordinary course. Leo had this opinion of Saint Peter, as appeareth in his Epistles in sundry places; as specially superuising and patronising the Church of Rome. Nos experti sumus, saith he, & nostri probavere majores, 
Serm 1. de S. Petro & Paulo.  credimus & confidimus inter omnes labores istius vitae, ad obtinendam misericordiam Dei semper nos specialium Patronorum orationibus adjunandos. And it may be admitted, that, as opinion hath been, some certain Saints have more special Care, and a peculiar Patronage, Custody, and protecting Power, as Angels also have, over certain Persons and Countries by especial deputation. Not for employment, to be sent è tabernaculis beatorum, the Office of Angels in their Ministry, but for advancement of their good, in general intercession for the Body, not in special mediation for any part or member occasionally: Examples hereof are frequent and many. Saint George is accounted the Patron of England: 
And this also, as we did the other, de Angelo Custode, we do but grant, we do not urge, de fide.  Saint Andrew of Scotland: Saint james for Spain; others for other People and Countries anciently chosen and deputed. It needs not be tendered or held as de fide; it is no point of necessity to Salvation; it may be true, there is no Impiety in believing so or so: nor doth this opinion of a general Protection, infer any special Intercession. This I am sure, the Ancients supposed it, and were of opinion, yet never said to any such Patron Saint, Ora pro Nobis, or Pro me. Leo had that opinion for Saint Peter over Rome. 
Nor do we thence infer Intercession.  Basil imagined the like for those forty Martyrs of Caesarea. Nazianzene relateth a story done, whereby the most blessed Mother of God, may seem to have special Care of holy Virgins: 
De Cura pro mort. Cap. 16.  And S. Augustine supposeth not much differently. Deus suorum merita Martyrum ubi vult, quando vult, quomodo vult, maximè per eorum memorias, quoniam hoc novit nobis expedire ad aedificandam fidem Christi, pro cujus illi confessione passi sunt bonitate mirabili & ineffabill commendat. So Saint Augustine opined, and I see nothing to the contrary, but so may we. For no support is hence, no direction, no colour at all for Call unto them ordinarily. Incident occasions newly arising every day, have no dependency upon, nor correspondency with these Precedents. Though Cyprian and Cornelius might so agree in time of Life, while ordinarily they could speak or intimate their Necessities one unto another: though he that died first of them two (Cornelius was the man, first martyred) might, and doubtless did recommend Saint Cyprian, left behind him, unto God in his prayers, and so strengthen his Faith, confirm his Love, advance his desires and deserts in suffering, and that, according unto compact, and promise betwixt them two in Earth; yet was this no warrant for Saint Cyprian, remaining behind some years after him, to direct his addresses unto Saint Cornelius, for after occasions not known unto him before his death. Nor did he ever after put him in mind of his promise, or commend his Case unto him, with Sancte Corneli, ora pro me. For how could he give him notice thereof, which is in this Case, all in all? And though it may be, for we are not ascertained, nor can so be, nor ever were any so resolved, that the Martyrs had some interest in some occasions, in some places, toward some persons extraordinarily, that some Saints have peculiar dispensations: yet I say with Saint Augustine in the place before remembered, Ista divinitùs exhibentur: longè aliter quàm se habet usitatus ordo singulis Creaturarum generibus attributus: as even the opposites must confess. 
Because we are to be ruled by ordinary course; not by extraordinary dispensation.  And we are to be regulated and directed by that Ordo in rebus usitatus, not to address ourselves for Practice, unto unusual courses of extraordinary dispensation. Non omni quia in vinum aqua cum voluit Dominus repentè conversa est, ideo non debemus quid aqua valeat, in Element●rum ordine proprio ab istius divini operis raritate, vel potiùs singularitate, discernere. Nec, quoniam Lazarus resurrexit, iccirco mortuus omnis quando vult resurget: aut eo modo exanimis à vivente, quomodo Dormiens à vigilante excitatur. Alia sunt, rerum humanarum limits, alia divinarum signa virtutum: alia sunt quae naturaliter, alia quae mirabiliter fiunt. In effect these passages are not to purpose for our Devotion, who are left unto ordinary courses of kind, and not directed to incertain, extraordinary, dependant dispensations.  
Therefore we put in Ordinarily, and it must not in any case be left out. For Ordinary, and Revealed things are for us, Secret, and reserved, for God. Reason in Nature, Illumination in Grace, from Revealed Intimation, must be the polestar of our passage in practice: either Lex scripta, or ●onnata: What we have read, or are assured of. It may be peradventure by some special dispensation and indulgence, upon some Reason best known and reserved unto the Majesty of Heaven, 
And we are not to conclude a general out of some particulars▪  that Some one holy Saint, or also many holy Saints, may in some certain cases, take special notice of some men, be especially informed in some particulars, and give thereupon particular help and assistance, at some time, unto some persons, in some places, as Saint Augustine relateth of the Relics of Saint Stephen: and Ambrose, of Protasius and Geruasius. Yet this particular, these many particulars, cannot make a General in true Art and Reason: and therefore the rule tendered as General thereupon must needs be faulty. God is not tied unto Course in kind; nor necessitated by the Law, which Himself hath proposed and appointed in Nature. And therefore, though according unto Order, and Course established, the Souls of the Righteous in the hands of God, have no commerce at all any more, 
As, on the other side, we must not confine God, or limit his Saints from particular dispensations.  or Conversation with men, so fare, as to be acquainted with their ordinary affairs and proceed, or to take notice of their Courses, which is the true meaning of Caluin in that place; Lib. Instit. 3. Cap. 20. Sect. 24. belied by Bellarmine, so fare as if the man denied an Article of the Creed, the Communion of Saints: yet extraordinary dispensations are not thereupon denied, or thereby taken away at all. For Moses and Elias, came forth of Paradise actually, and were seen upon Mount Tabor, talking with Christ jesus in Glory. For Potamiaena remembered her promise after her death made unto Basilides in her life, and in a Vision set a Crown of Gold, in assurance of Martyrdom, upon his head: related by Eusebius, in his sixth Book, and fifth Chapter. And so Christ jesus might meet Saint Peter at Rome Gates, though Heaven must contain him till the End of all: and Mercurius wound julian the Apostata to death by special dispensation. So ordinarily, though when the Soul is departed out of the Body, and the body returned into dust, not to be restored again to life till the Day of Doom and Consummation of all: yet contrary to this course of kind, some have been raised again to life by Divine Power, extraordinarily, as we are assured: and some peradventure unto eternal Life, not to return again unto their dust, as those that rose at our Saviour's Resurrection, and were really discerned and seen of many, the first fruits with the first begotten of the dead, 
Illos non tumulos certum est repetisse silentes,  
Ampliùs, aut terra retineri viscere clausos.  as Tertullian is peremptory and the most of our Writers old, new. But Olle quid ad te! these dispensatory Singularities of Gods will and power unto some particulars, are no Rules for our Actions, or Expectations. Revealed things, and ordinary only are for us, 
Though we must not regulate our actions by them.  and to be our directions in practice of Piety and Devotion. We are not to rely upon what God can do, nor what he sometime hath done: but only upon that ordinary course, which unless he shall think fit otherwise to dispose of, he hath appointed to be always kept and done. Whatsoever he will do, I know he can do. If once it be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gone out of his mouth, it is not impossible: it shall come to pass. Unless we have very good warrant indeed, and where it may be had speak those that can tell, such special Acts of peculiar Dispensations build not up our Faith towards saving of our Souls, no● yet square out our practice any way. Can we find it assured us by good warrant unquestionable, that Angels and Saints, both or either, attend us in our courses at all assays? If we can, say and spare not, Holy Angel, holy such, or such a Saint pray for us: If no such assurance, than I see no warrant so to say: Their will is good, no doubt, 
We conclude then, that there is no question, whether they are affected to us, but how they are informed, of our wants.  for what they can do. No man will doubt of their good affections, unto their Brethren, who knoweth their Charity is enlarged. Their Power is great, no question, to do much which they will do. Much indeed, but not yet all they would do. Whatsoever they ask at God's hands for Christ's sake, they obtain it, without controversy. God denieth them nothing. Nor any on Earth so soon as Saints in Heaven, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, have God so ad placitum, and command in a sort that I may so speak, as they: being powerful with Him to prevail for all their desires. But yet as Ignoti nulla cupido, No man affecteth that whereof he never heard: So no man doth commiserate, the party and case he never knew. The Heart, we say, ruth not, what the Eye seethe not. Can they then entreat for me, or for any, without Information wherein or for what? How shall I inform them for my estate, or be sure I am heard when I supplicate thus, Sancta Maria ora pro me? She is in Heaven: I upon Earth, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, a great Gulf is betwixt these two places. She is there by Definition, or Circumscription, as the Soul separate can be determined and confined. She never knew me or mine in the flesh: had no correspondency with any of my Kin, being gathered to her Fathers in joy with her son, long before myself was borne into the World, or had any thing to do, amongst the sons of men. I know the saying is that, Kings have long ears, their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Agentes, in rebus and many Informers give them notice of passages every where. And yet not so long, but that many great Rumours of great sound and noise never came within the compass of their Ears. But whether Saints in Heaven have such long Ears or not, Bellarmine cannot resolve Caluin, I am sure, though he traduce him for using the Phrase, as if he would embase the glory of God's Saints, who meant only to show the folly of these Persuaders in this particular.  

Pag. 156. de al●era vita.  It is childish and ridiculous that Pinello the jesuite hath, Abraham was heard praying for Abimelech, when he lived upon Earth: He will therefore be much sooner heard of God, being now in Heaven, for those that he commendeth unto Him. Ridiculous: For this is not the Question, whether he shall now be sooner heard or no: but, whether he can as well recommend any now unto God, as he did the Case of Abimelech, being with Him. Can he as well hear and understand those men that desire him now to recommend their cause unto Christ, as he could Abimelech when he requested him to pray for Him? If he can so well, and easily understand their Case, I grant he shall as soon, nay sooner be heard. See how toyishly these great Master's play with their own fancies, making much ado, with that which need not trouble their inquiries, but balking the main of which most men do doubt, and yet this is that Achilles for the Catholic Cause, that unanswerable Argument, forsooth, which the Master of Controversies boasteth of could never be answered nor assailed. We read, saith He, in both Testaments Viventes, à viventibus invocatos: his meaning is, that men yet living have desired the Prayers of their Brethren yet living also, as for instance, Rom. 15. the Apostle intreateth thus, I beseech you Brethren assist me with your Prayers unto our Lord, therefore, Licebit etiam nunc eosdem Sanctos cum Christo regnantes invocare. Every Child can give a non sequitur to this foolish Reason, Therefore it is lawful to invocate the same Saints now with Christ. Lawful for Saint Paul I suppose, meaneth he not so? Sure the Argument concludeth for Him, if for any, as though Saint Paul now stood in need of the Romans Prayers. If lawful for us to do now that which Saint Paul did then: and this be his meaning as it is, but that I know him a man of extraordinary Learning, I would suppose him scarce a Smatterer in common sense and reason; so that needs, Roscius noluit agere, aut crudior fuit: the man was not himself in this childish dispute, their state being different, their conditions diverse, much and many alterations intervening every way. Were there but some circumstances not the same, it were sufficient to alter the state of the Question. But saith He, the great Controverser, thus. 
And therefore that they plead in vain for Invocation,  If we may not much more and rather invoke them now, then Saint Paul might then speak unto them, it is either because they will not intermediate for us, and this is false: Or because they cannot: and that is false: Or because it is not sitting they should as being an injury done to Christ, unto whom alone all our Address should be. The first he proveth, because their Love is enlarged, and upon the improovement of their Charity, their desires much greater to do us good. The second, because their Power is much larger now than it was then. The third he saith, cannot be supposed, for then Christ was also wronged in his Office, if living men on Earth desire their Brethren, in private or public to pray for them. Indeed I grant Christ is not wronged in his Mediation, It is no impiety to say as they do, Sancta Maria, ora pro me: Sancte Petre, ora pro me. and so no wrong unto Christ jesus, to use mediation of Intercession unto Him. As it is taught, I add in their Schools: by their Doctors: resolved by that Oracle of Trent. But not as is practised in their use and custom, where simple men invoke Saints as they do God: go to their Devotions unto the blessed Virgin, not only far more frequently then to Christ jesus: but without any difference at all go to it down right, as to the Authors and Originals of the things they desire, having them in their power to bestow or not. They have power much more than they had on Earth. Not to give, but to entreat, to prevail with God, now sooner, in the state of bliss and immutability, then in the state of Subjection unto Sin and Misery. But admit it not Impiety, as I think it is not, It is flat and egregious foolery at the best.  
Peter might say to Paul at Antioch, 
Unless, they could prove them acquainted with our affairs,  when they lived together; and Vice versa, Paul unto Peter, Pray for me, without scruple, or doubt, or question at all. But what need for one to say so now to either, when neither needeth Intercession of other? I cannot say now to either one or other without incongruity, or touch of Foolery, Pray for me. Were I with Them: could I come at them: or certainly inform them of my estate, without any question or more ado, I would readily and willingly say, Holy Peter, blessed Paul, Pray for me: Recommend my case unto Christ jesus our Lord. Were they with me: by me: in my kenning, I would run with open arms, and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, fall upon my knees, and with affection desire them to pray for me. But seeing it is nor so, nor so: at least I cannot be resolved so, nor all Saint-inuocators in the World can prove it so: I would gladly see and know, by what warrant I on Earth so uncouth and therefore unkist, so unknown unto them altogether, for aught can be proved, so fare removed from all ordinary means of intimation to make my case known, can say unto them, Holy Peter, blessed Paul, pray for me. Let their great Grace and Favour with God alone: of which I make no question. Their love and entire affection unto their Brethren alone, of which I am as well persuaded as all the Roman Catholics in the World are. And in both these respects, their more than probability to prevail in whatsoever they shall petitionate God for me. All this is nothing, to no purpose, if they cannot tell who nor what I am: what I would have or desire them to solicit for, or whether I speak unto them, implore their assistance, or recommend my suit unto them or not. For I must needs in common reason, make him acquainted with what I would have, whom I mean to employ in that I would have. Knowledge is the first mover in all humane actions whatsoever. Vltimus actus intellectus practici, est primus voluntatis: The Will willeth not, but that which is suggested by Understanding. Knowledge is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 all in all in this present question and dispute of Invocation of Saints, which ordinarily they seem not to have of themselves, nor yet possibility to be informed thereof. 
Or show how they should be acquainted with them.  Prove me this, that they have or may have notice thereof, and prove all. I will no more contend against their Intercession, if any Papist living, or all the Papists living can prove that I may make my necessities known unto them ordinarily; but instantly subscribe without more ado. I grant they know much, and that ordinarily of themselves, their own endowments, or else by infused, or revealed knowledge. Know all they do not, no not what is necessary and required in this case; and what they know, or how much, none but themselves, or God can relate: which was never yet discovered, that I could find. To make them omniscious we know, is to give them that of God, which is Incommunicable to a Creature. Bellarmine rightly detesteth this, and complaineth that Melanthon doth injuriously cast this aspersion upon their Church. We are told, and have heard much talk, of their morning and evening knowledge, of their Natural power and free disposition; of Divine supernatural dispensation; of Angelical information; of Almighty revelation. But all these and other, bring forth no better or stronger issue, than some things, at some times, some of them, we know not who: by some means or other we cannot tell what; may attain unto, God knoweth how much: and so leave us uncertain we know not where, to rely upon some help, we know not from whom, what, or how fare. The great Canuaser of Controversies, for all his confidence, was fain to fall off with a flat Ignoramus, touching their knowledge resolved on by himself for a stay: and cast us off at adventures, with this resolution irresolute every way; Vnde sciant Angeli conversionem peccatorum, pro qua tantoperè gaudent in coelis, ut dicitur, Luc. 14. Indè sciunt Sancti nostri, nostras preces. The question was asked by one in good earnest, How the Saints in Heaven may come to take notice of our prayers: his answer is, In that very sort as the Angels come to know the conversion of a Sinner, for which they so much, and so greatly rejoice. But, good Sir Confuter of Caluin, resolve us of fellowship, undè is it that Angels know that? and then peradventure we may be still as fare to seek for answer, as he is said to be, unto this indissoluble argument of Intercession of Saints departed; because men living are employed as Mediators unto God by Prayer, therefore the Saints may be so employed.  

Whether by Intuitive knowledge, or communication.  But to come to the point: Whatsoever thing or Substance hath, or can have a knowledge of the state and condition of another, must have it originally, or by Means and Communication. Original knowledge, is Plenary and Intuitive, peculiarly proper unto God alone, who is intimi●r unto every thing, than the thing is or can be to itself: And understandeth more and more perfectly, than that Thing doth by, or of itself. For he only hath knowledge comprehensive. The knowledge that Saints and Angels have, (For in this Question as is specified, they are not divided by the Persuaders to their Intercession) is Communicated, not original; they being not Creators, but Creatures. Communicated from God two ways, as is avouched. In Himself: without Himself. That Supernaturally to Saints and Angels: by which they that behold his Face in glory, do withal, in him, as in a glass, behold infinite Forms of things and beings. The other naturally proceeding from the Power of that endowment, wherewith Saints and holy Angels are endowed, quatenus tales, in that their blessed estate. Antiquity, taking up the phrase from a passage in Saint Augustine, hath named these two different degrees and kinds of knowledge in Men and Angels, Matutinam & Vespertinam cognitionem: Their Morning and Evening knowledge. That which they know in beholding of God, most perfect and pure, by way of Resultation from his all-sufficiency. That which resideth in themselves, and proceedeth from themselves, not so eminent, excellent, nor so far extended as the other. Whether by effluxe and emanation out of themselves, by species congenitas, which is not probable: or else, which is most likely, though themselves are not persuaded, nor yet resolved of it, by species abstractas, from the Creatures. Concerning their Morning knowledge more anon, when we come to take a view of their glass of the Deity.  
But as touching their Evening, or Natural knowledge, 
For, their knowledge may be strict enough.  seeing it is uncertain whence, and what it is, or how fare it extendeth; who can determine? or of what Capacity and Efficacy it is. For either we must determine of it from the Effects; or conclude of it by the Cause. The Cause is uncertain; because unknown. The Effects uncertain; because unapprehended. Who can say how far it extendeth? Who can measure or bond it out, that never yet spoke with any Saint or Angel to be informed, and take thence resolution? And for any experimental knowledge thereof, it is absolutely without the verge of man's walk. How little, how much soever it be, it is put down by themselves as a ruled Case: Their Natural disposition, or understanding, doth not reach home to such a Power or ability, as necessarily must concur, and is required absolutely unto Invocation, but is of an assize, by much shorter and more curtailed than will serve: as thus. The Prayers, Petitions, and Desires of Men, upon any occasion, at any time, are either Conceptus animi, merely Mental, and not expressed by voice: or withal Vocal, thereby made known unto such as are within distance. Mental Prayers merely they apprehend not, nor understand at all. For how can any Understand the Spirit of man, the thoughts of the heart of man, but the man whose thoughts they are, who is privy to his own mind? Only God, who made and fashioned the Heart: Who understandeth all things long before they come to pass: Who seethe from everlasting to everlasting, intuitively, knoweth the secrets, discovereth the boughts and turnings of the heart, because he is intimior, nearer unto man, than man is or can be to Himself. Vocal prayers they cannot, being out of distance, not present with, or near unto them that call. Now in case of Petition and Invocation, it often standeth thus: Men in diverse, and those remote and distanced places, fare asunder, may, and often do, at one and the same time and instant, Call, and Cry out for help and assistance in their exigent necessities. How shall they help, who cannot hear? How can they hear, that are not present, or near, either actually, or virtually, by contiguity, or continuity, unto and with those that Call? As Saints in Heaven, and men upon Earth, nor are, nor can be so present each with other ordinarily: except perhaps, and but also perhaps, by some particular dispensation. I grant, that the Soul is a Substance of exceeding quick dispatch, and of wondrous agility every way: especially sole, itself entire, separate from the encumbrances of the Body. And yet, ultra posse non est esse. The activeness of it is not indetermined, or uncircumscribed. The Soul is a Substance confined To, where it is, and worketh determinately. If here, not there: if in one place, at instant not in another, and though movable, yet how, in what fashion, with what disposition who can say, or determinately resolve?  
It is an Idle, as are many more in him, speculation, that I say not Profane, which Pinell●s the jesuite hath, 
Lib. 1. ca 17.. de alterâ vita. How fare soever the jesuite seems to extend it,  that the Souls of the Righteous, now in Heaven with God: of all the Righteous, and every one of them: even the lowest and least in the Kingdom of Heaven, do behold in verbo, or in Essentiâ divinâ, the forms and fashions, the several natures and kinds of all things whatsoever, that were done, procured, or brought forth in the world. The frogs and lice of Egypt. The gourd of jonas: the hair that Absalon shaved and weighed in the scales: him weighing it in the balance having been poled. And why so? Ratio est, and it is worth the marking, quia omnes beat● naturale quoddam habent desiderium ejusmodi res cognoscendi; The Souls of the Righteous have a Natural propense inclination and desire to see and know all such things as these: all the things that are in God, and, an Actual desire, nor is, nor can be frustrate for ever. In effect this is, to see and know as much as God himself seethe or knoweth; not only what may or can be imparted unto them from God. Which desire, if any such hath been, or is, is too very much extravagant and exorbitant. Lucifer did no more. His desire was to be equal with God; and in knowledge, at least, 
Beyond all reason.  like unto the most High. But whatsoever the man childishly imagineth of them, their desire is limited, and must be ordinate. It is at all times conformable unto God's will, & evermore submitted, subjected unto his good pleasure. More than he will discover they must not know: they cannot; they do not desire to understand. And that this in question was of that kind, he should have proved, and not have brought in, what no man denieth, He fulfilleth all their desire. Prove that this is a part of their Desire. It is no part or portion of; it belongeth not to, the Essence of their happiness or Perfection: though it belong unto Perfection, and is a principal part thereof. But Perfection of God, and not of man. Of Divine perfection whereto it is consequent: Not of humane, to which it is not appendent, nor hath any relation thereto at all. Now it is not the Divine, but humane Perfection, that is their inheritance. Farther, their endowments are not extended, 
Neither doth the denial of that knowledge, argue 〈◊〉 imperfection in them.  Perfectum est, cui nihil deest, secundùm modum perfectionis ejus. Not simply and absolutely, Cui nihil deest: Such is the Perfection of God alone; who absolutely is alsufficient to Himself, and wonteth or standeth in need of nothing: But such Perfection, as whereof the thing is capable, according unto kind, and in degree of possibility which it hath to receive such endowments ordinarily. Now it is the resolution of their own Schools: Non est de ratione beatitudinis essentialis, ut nostras orationes, aut alia facta nostra matutinâ cognitione in verbo videant. It doth no way appertain to the Essence, and condition of the felicity of Gods chosen in the land of the living, that they know our Desires, or understand our Prayers, by beholding of them in God. So Gabriel Lect. 31. in Canon: Missae. And it is not certain, saith the same Gabriel, whether it be incident to their felicity accidental. The one Certain, quod non: it is not at all any part of Essential happiness: The other Uncertain, An sic, whether it concur to Accidental happiness or no. Then what Certainty is there for the Inference, they do know; Or for the Preface, they Desire to know; when all their Desire, as it is ordinate, so doth it make for their happiness one way or other, Essential, or Accidental. Therefore for the main, Gabriel concludeth, That the Saints with God, do not by any power of their own: by any Natural or Evening Knowledge whatsoever, understand our Prayers Mental or Vocal, Nullas Orationes nostras, peremptorily, neque mentales, neque vocales cognoscunt. They are not then Idonei auditores of us, when we Call, though we Call, and Cry, and Roar; though 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with strong Cries and Supplications we lift up the voice.  
For his Reason is to purpose, unanswerable, undeniable, They are too fare removed out of distance. They and we are disparted so fare asunder, it is not possible there should be Relation at all. And yet in point of Invocation it will appear, and he confesseth as much, that their Natural or Evening knowledge only is that which we must trust unto: as being alonely in their power to use and to dispose: and of ordinary dispensation. Therefore Gregory saith himself, as Bellarmine confesseth, that job is peremptory against Natural knowledge where he saith, Unto which of the Saints wilt thou turn thee? And so he there putteth over all unto the glass of the Deities which alone in conclusion must bear all. But because it is the last hope and refuge they have, we adjourn it unto the last place, and take in some other uncertainties by the way.  

But the Patrons of this cause, confirm their knowledge further by Angelical Revelation.  As in point of Irresolution men fleet up and down, catch sometime at this, sometime at that: so they retire, being beaten off from Natural knowledge of Saints, unto Angelical Revelation. So by Intimation and Ministry of the Angels, men's Actions, Petitions, States, and Necessities, say they, are imparted and made known unto the Saints in Heaven, who, as they are charitable abundantly, do instantly address themselves to entreat the Almighty for relief. To make this good, Saint Augustine is produced; Who indeed in his Book, De Curâ pro Mortuis Cap. 15. amongst other peradventures and uncertainties, as himself professeth them to be, falleth upon this of Angelical Intimation. Possunt & ab Angelis, qui rebus quae aguntur hic praesto sunt audire aliquid mortuj, quod unum quemque illorum audire debere iudicais, cui cuncta subiecta sunt. In which passage not to purpose, it is plain and evident, that Saint Augustine doth not rely upon it: insisteth not on it at all, as certain. Possunt audire, It may be they do hear, is all he will stand unto, and that neither is but aliquid, which he so propoundeth, and that aliquid, yet limited with a iudicat. So in conclusion, Saints may peradventure, and peradventure not, Hear and know something from Angelical Relation, if he will and permit, and no otherwise: and as he permitteth and willeth both, whose Absolute Will is the Rule of all: who dispenseth even this also as he pleaseth. Is not this good assurance for Invocation? But admit it more certain then as yet we can find it; The Proposers of this May be this so uncertain Proposition, do first of all in the Assertion cross, and fall foul with their own Position; that Saints in this dispute, and to this purpose are every way equal unto the Angels. 
Which mainly opposeth the foresaid equality of Saints and Angels.  For equality supposeth the same terms ubique. And Saints have it no otherwise then upon retail, at second hand. For the Angels make it known unto them, who else had been Ignorant, and that invincibly, of the particulars. Secondly, if they urge Angelical Revelation, 
At the least, if that Angelical Revelation may be granted.  than that unanswerable Argument of the Controverser is but as a Shaw foul, in a Corn field, Vndè sciunt Angeli conversionem peccat●rum, indè sciunt Sancti nostras prec●s. False, and falsely alleged of him, out of his own mouth, by the verdict of his Associates. For Saints know them no otherwise then by Information from Angels. Angels know and understand the Repentance of Sinners and their Conversion, by Natural or acquired knowledge, as being then present some of them, when Peter, for instance wept bitterly: or Nineveh repent in Sackcloth and ashes. Angels are all of them, Saints are none of them, ordinarily, without any exception or privilege, of hierarchical Order, Ministering Spirits, as their very name importeth, God's Agents employed in the Church, in Defensive sort, to protect his Friends, in Offensive actions to oppugn his Foes, generally used and employed for their good, who shall be heirs of the Promise. Now as is their Employment in Destination: such their Execution, in putting it to practice, as they should: to visit, take notice of, assist, ensue, protect, provide for: and that either Ordinarily, as Leaguer Angels do; for their particular and peculiar charge being Custodes paruulorum, by special assignment: or extraordinarily, as do Angels at large, where and when God sendeth them upon special service.  

Or, being granted if it make a complete information.  The men that Moses sent, to search out and to view the Land of Canaan, made report at their Return of their Observations there. In like sort, be it granted that Angels at their Return home into Heaven from their agency on Earth, impart what they find, and have observed in their agency abroad, either one to another, Saints and Angels, as it were of course and in full Assemblies: or occasionally in particular as it happeneth. Neither is certain, neither assured. Beside, as much to seek are we, Whether all they know, have met with and observed in lump, or what may concern each ones particular to whom they do impart it: as to Saint Peter that which toucheth the Roman State and Papacy, to Saint George of England, Saint james of Spain, Saint Denis of France, what is for them to know, in and touching those Countries over which they are designed or reputed Patrons. Whether so or otherwise, speak those that can tell: if yet they can tell what it is they speak. Luke 15.17. There is joy in Heaven amongst Angels for the Conversion of a Sinner. And it is, I grant it, a Necessary inference, Therefore they knew it first: or else they had not rejoiced for it. They did know it without all question: nor do I, nor need I, dispute the question, or inquire the manner how they came to know it. Angels, and Saints also without question know and understand much done upon Earth, 
For a complete and general knowledge can not be proved by one particular.  which yet doth nothing further Invocation. One Swallow maketh not Summer, no more than one Woodcock doth Winter. The Granting of one Act, though ordinarily, necessarily (and yet it cannot be said here, So, or so) doth not in any good Logic infer a Generality. Because they know the Conversion of a Sinner, Marry Magdalen, suppose it, or Zacheus, a thing notorious in itself, and done in the view of Men and Angels; doth it ensue, that therefore necessarily they know all the desires, thoughts, wishes, and Prayers, nay I will say public Actions of the one or other? much less do they so understand all things of all men in all places whatsoever. The Conversion of a Sinner is a particular: and no particular doth conclude a General. Else, because Eliseus knew the Secrets of the King of Aram, and the packing of Gehezi with Naaman; there was done in Israel nothing but he knew it, which we know to be otherwise by his own confession, in the Shunamites Case, She is troubled, and the Lord hath not revealed it unto me.  
Secondly, that particular is of a main consequence, 
Specially from that particular: of the conversion of a Sinner.  The bringing home again of the lost Sheep. An Action of such Nature and employment, as toucheth the Communion of Saints. And so the sooner, and rather, imparted unto those, that are interessed as members are all, more or less, in the Collateral main Actions of another member. Therefore we read that a Feast was made, and public joy frequented, at the Prodigals return home unto his Father: not usual in matters of another Nature. And it must not be over-passed here, that our Saviour doth not say, The Conversion of a Sinner is known in Heaven, by which might be employed an ordinary course, for the Conversion of every Sinner: but thus, At the Conversion of a Sinner there is joy in Heaven. As if it had been said, Then when it is made known unto them: as if it were not ordinary or Natural for them to know it, but upon Information. Howsoever, we are yet but upon, Uncertainties. Peradventures, are our greatest, and utmost Resolutions. We are directed for common course of Life against common sense and reason, unto extraordinary passages, and addresses. To rely upon some stay: we cannot tell what. Bid go call upon some Angel, to the purpose, that He may impart our petition unto some Saint: which Saint doth communicate it to the blessed Virgin: and she obtain it by entreaty, though once it was by command of her Son. A long Circumduction with much ado: before all can be dispatched, I may be undone. I may perish, before my case come to knowledge or scanning, whereas, Call upon me▪ is a shorter way, I am sure: a surer course, I dare avow, where instantly I may be heard and delivered at my Call, if not ad voluntatem as I would: yet ad salutem, for the best, in time of trouble, and my most and surest advantage.  
From hence they go on, 
Therefore, since this will not serve, from Angelical they fly to divine Revelation.  to have more strings unto their bow, unto divine Revelation, that God imparteth unto the Saints in Heaven, the necessities and extremities, the Prayers and Desires of men upon Earth, at that very instant, in which men make them in any urgency any way. No otherwise then the Prophets understood things to come: or knew the thoughts of men, and secret actions, otherwise undiscernible because performed in private, and upon the absence of the parties made acquainted with them. This is not apertissima sententia Augustini, as Bellarmine fableth. For than he should resolve for it and pitch upon it, which he doth not, Lib. de Cura pro mortuis, cap. 15. but only reciteth it, one amongst other probable and coniectural means, whereby Saints departed may be supposed to come to understand some of the actions of the living. Poscunt etiam spiritus mortuorum, 
A thing both uncertain,  aliqua eorum quae hic aguntur, quae necessarium est eos nosse, & quae necessarium non est eos non nosse, non solùm praeterita vel praesentia, verumetiam futura, spiritu Deireuelante cognoscere. The souls of the dead 〈◊〉 also understand somewhat that is done amongst us on Earth, which it is necessary they should know, and not be ignorant of, not only things that are past or present, but also what is to come. He saith no more but possunt, They may peradventure, and Aliqua somethings, we know not what, which is nothing to our Prayers certainly, where, or whensoever we do make them unto Him. Such things as Predictions Prophetical, and other such like extraordinary Donations, are to some only: at some times: in some cases: to some ends, to men and Angels: to men by Angels; as Saint Augustine doth affirm, and that apertè in this passage. Non omnes homines, sed Prophetae, dum hic vivebant, cognoscebant. Nec ipsi omnia, 
And weak▪  sed quae illis esse revelanda, Dei providentia iudicabat. A very weak support to bear so great a weight as doth follow Invocation. Unless in this case it be particularly avouched, that God must discover all things in heaven and in earth, unto men departed, and to Angels ordinarily at all times in all places without privilege or exception. So that, as Pinellus avouched for the forms of all things, they have knowledge omniscious with this alone difference; 
And absurd.  Saints & Angels are omniscious, but by communication: God is originally, and not from others. A thing absurd in Dispensation, if it were true otherwise, God communicateth perfections, his perfections unto his Creatures: but it is only de suis: a part and portion befitting the condition and proportion of the Donee, not answering the ability and sufficiency of the Donor. It is not sua: All that he hath: All Power, all Wisdom, Knowledge, and Understanding of all things to all purposes. For nothing doth or can communicate to other, Extremum potentiae, all it hath. But were it fit, convenient, or possible for the Donor so to endow; yet it is not possible for the Donee so to receive. For it is a ruled case in Nature and in Grace both, Quicquid recipitur, ad modum recipientis recipitur, as the Donee, can receive it: not as the Donor could confer it. They follow the Lamb whithersoever bee goeth. So they may be of his Court, not of his Counsel. Amici sunt agni: They are indeed and must be esteemed the Lamb's friends. But never was any Friend so entire: Never yet Favourite had that Interest, as to reverse that Dictate of Reason, Wisdom and State, Secreta mea mihi, Reserved Secrets are for myself. Many Secrets were hid even from the Angels: and not made manifest, but by the event, in & by the Church even unto them: And are they not yet in statu quo? for ordinary knowledge howsoever: for extraordinary is not to purpose, will not serve the turn. Or if it were, and would; yet than all things must be the object of this extravagant understanding: or how come these into Interlope alone, Our Prayers and Petitions unto the Saints!  
It is not, it cannot be resolved how by any Revelation from God ordinarily this is or can be a settled truth. 
And yet if it cannot ordinarily be done: they fly further to the glass of the Deity.  Nor how by any Natural Power or ability in themselves, they may be raised up unto so high a pitch: therefore lastly as Ad anchoram sacram in tempestate, they have recourse unto their Morning knowledge in verbo, in the Essence of God, in the Glass of the Deity which must bear all. The Glass of the Deity a acquaint and very plausible conceit. Qua cognoscitur verbum, & relucentia in verbo, the very Destina of this Doctrine according to the practice in the Church of Rome: Qui videt videntem omnia, is videt omnia, is the Position: in which God is made and supposed a glass, by way of resemblance, as representing unto the beholder's view, somewhat no doubt: but what, or how much we cannot say; nor they assure us. But to the point: In things of God, 
For so they 〈◊〉 our knowledge in Heaven▪  being of an higher strain than the Capacity of man, we must not talk at random, according to our own Fancy, nor measure the Almighty in himself, as we please, or in his Actions, according to the poor scantling of humane passages, or ability. Therefore Quo Warranto, do they talk thus of God, or represent unto us the glass of the Deity? Who taught him to speak so▪ that spoke so first; Gregory, or who ever was the author of it? In the language of Ashdod, they may babble so: but they talk not in this manner in the tongue of Canaan. The Glass must be in this World, if any be at all. Men living look into the Glass, if any do. For here we behold as in a glass: There, and then, our Beholding is revealedly, 
When men on Earth do rather behold as in a glass.  and Face to face; unless a glass be no glass: or Saint Paul's opposition of Terms and Times be false, or not to purpose.  
Secondly, the condition of a Glass is, we know, 
Neither can it agree with the condition of a glass: which represents all before it.  to express and represent unto the beholder, All, whatsoever is before the Glass. But God's Perfection is such, that in Him are comprehended 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, What Is, Was, or Shall be hereafter. So that Videns videntem omnia videt omnia. It cannot be otherwise, but that He who seethe God, seethe whatsoever is in God. Say you so? And that Essentially, and comprehensively? Then man is made like unto the most high: God seethe from everlasting to everlasting, and so by this rule must all his Saints see. In which regard, 
Since something in that 〈◊〉 is 〈…〉 all the Angels,  I wonder Saint Paul durst avow, That the mysteries of our most holy Faith, were not known unto Angels from the beginning, but by revelation from the Church. And yet those mysteries were ever in that Glass, as being resolved on in the purpose and counsel of God, not secret, from the beginning. And the Angels, from the first instant of their Creation, especially confirmed in Grace, did ever indeclineably, Behold the face of God in glory. And how can this Conclusion of Christ jesus stand firm, But of that day and hour, the day of Doom, knoweth no man, no not the Angels in Heaven: it being to be received as an Eternal truth, That he who seethe him, that seethe all things, doth also in and with, and by Him see all things? For, is the Day resolved on in his Counsel? Doth God Himself know when it shall be? 
No● can it without absurdity and 〈◊〉 be granted, that all things are 〈◊〉.  Why then Saints and Angels are therewith acquainted, that read and behold in Him, as in a glass, whatsoever is Reconditum, in his most secret thoughts.  
I add, it is absolute absurdity, nay flat impiety, to tie God Almighty, and therefore most free, unto a fatal concatenation of Causes. Thus they do in this case, or else, nor do they, nor say they any thing to purpose. There is a twofold glass, if yet they needs will insist upon, and prattle of a Glass: at least all things are, which in effect is the same, to the same purpose, in a twofold difference and disposition. Natural, and so necessitated: or voluntary, and so free Agents are they all. Natural Agents work, and cannot choose but work always, at all times, in the same sort, being not diversely applied unto Patients. The Sun being risen, giveth light, and cannot choose but give light unto the world. The Fire burneth always, and cannot choose but burn combustible matter put unto it. 
For, if they make it a voluntary glasses nothing is revealed but at his pleasure.  But voluntary Agents not so. They Can and Cannot work at pleasure. They suspend their Actions, if they will: and dispense and dispose them according unto Time, Place, Occasion. It was a profane paganical conceit, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, 
Calaber.  that God was also subject unto fatal necessity and decrees, and hissed out, with indignation by the wisest of them. For we know, and are assured, not only Christians, but even men endued with common sense and reason, that God of all Agents, is most free: As being absolute of himself alone, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, no way depending upon any; no way beholding to another. He can then suspend his Actions as he will, in revealing and concealing what he pleaseth: To, and from whom he will and pleaseth. What he doth conceal: how much he doth discover of Himself unto others, they must first assure, that from the Morning knowledge of Saints & holy Angels, in the glass of the Deity, go about to persuade unto Invocation, and to establish Intercession of Saints. Unless, and until they can do this, it is idle to talk of the glass of the Deity, in which all God's Counsels and Actions are beheld: or the Saints looking and prying into that glass, in which they may view and survey all his counsels. Est enim verbum speculum voluntarium, saith Biel most truly, ostendens, videnti se, quantum voluerit, non autem quantum relucet. And Thomas farther, 1. par. qu. 12. artic. 8. Cum nullus intellectus creatus illum comprehendat, non potest in ipso videre, omnia quae facit vel facere potest. Sed vel plura vel pauciora, secundàm quod perfectius vel imperfectius eum videt. Enough to break in pieces this fancy of a glass.  

And, if they make it a natural glass: ye●, who shall give the beholder, as sufficient capacity, 〈◊〉 glass is of continen●●.  And yet farther, to condescend to that which must not be granted, because it is absurd, false, and impious, that God is not a Voluntary, but a Natural glass: yet even then, and so, are they never a whit the nearer by looking into, or staring upon that glass, to understand whatsoever may concern this case, unless that Obiectum be adaequatum, the Beholder be of as great capacity, as the Glass is of continency, which He beholdeth. Suppose a glass as wide, large, and spacious as all Europe, which naturally may and doth represent all that part of the world; yet what is that to me for my information, for business of Spain, Norway, or Constantinople, unless my sight, not able to reach in plano, unto all parts of Europe, nay not of England, a point of Europe, could take a perfect, and through view of each part and corner of the glass, so much more large and spacious, then that one not very big Country is; Each finite Subsistance, hath a quousque, for magnitude, durance, and perfection; thither it may come, but go no jot farther. In the Glass of the Deity, if there be imagined such a glass, there are Actus, and ordines Hierarchici, and of Subordination, according to capacity, capability, merit, disposition: or else the blessed Virgin hath but an equal portion with ordinary people: S. Paul no more advancement in Glory, than he whose Acts burn, and is himself scarce saved by fire. And yet we know there are vix saluati: there are Porters at the house of God; and such as are admitted, ad mensam, ad dextras, ad sinistras. But those that have most, and deepest insight, greatest shares, all come short of that large and immensurable dimensum, to be made partakers of all the secrets of God, nay to know the thoughts or prayers of men, which they must understand, and that ordinarily too, or how can a man say to them, Pray for me? Nay, unless I do know their nice dimensum, how can I, or any one say, Pray for me? It may be that Saint's part and portion whom I implore, unto whom I make Petition, is not so large, of such capability nor extent, as is requisite, as another's is. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The Angels behold what they can behold and see, and Archangels as much as they are capable of, each according unto his own measure and scantling; 
For the Angels may see mu●h: al●hey cannot.  but every one, and all short of this degree and measure, to know and understand all things ordinarily. Bellarmine in this point, hath brought an argument, that, nor Himself, nor any for Him, have or will ever be able to answer. If the Saints need at any time any new Revelation, and have not the Ability and Sufficiency at once from God, & that at the instant of their admittance into Glory, the Church were too bold, so hand overhead, to implore them all, or say unto any one of them, Ora pro me. but first in Reason and Congruity should Call upon God, to reveal and make known our Prayers unto them. Upon which we infer, They are too ●old. For the Church is unjustly made accessary thereto: For their Ability is not absolute at the first, but receiveth an access ever day by day, until the Consummation of all by Christ.  
If for instance, the glory of Saint Paul doth increase daily in heaven, as by means of his works remaining to posterity, the glory of God, the effects of his grace, the bounds of the Church are increased daily. The reward of Saint Paul must be answerable to it, and receive an addition, as their own Schools do determine every day. Nor had he his dimensum, or portion at first. So then, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Adieu fine fiction of the Glass of the Deity, it is but a pretty toy to play withal. Adieu no less invocation of Saints, especially built up from that fiction, a foregery invented to delude men withal, to teach them to rely upon a reed of Egypt, and lose fair and sure possibilities, nay certainties sure otherwhere. A fiction cast off, if I well remember, for at this instant I have not the book by me, by Hugo a Victore, long ago.  
Can that be sure or well built for others to rely upon, and fly unto, where the Master builders of Babel, not to say Bezaleels, are confounded, and in distraction among themselves? the Schoolmen I mean, one with another. Cognitio is all. Saint's Intercessors must first know, and be acquainted with our necessities, before they can give us help or assistance. And before they can know it, we must acquaint them with what they must know. Now, de modo quo cognoscant▪ How and in what sort, these holy Saints and Angels, albeit they behold, and that indeclinably God's face in glory, do see also and know other things beside God, Non convenit inter omnes, saith Pinello. And yet it must convenire, and inter omnes too, or we must go seek for Patrons in adversity, 
And if we doubt whether they can see our wants: we may well doubt whether they can help them.  having no scriptum est for our warrant, and what is tradition not accorded? In God's Precepts and Tendries of belief, I will subject, and captivated my enquiring into plain belief, and be content though I can but know 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that so it is: because he hath said it: though he hath not discovered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 what it is, nor I can reach unto 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, wherefore it is. But in that which is not tendered under so high commanding form, as Believe th●s and true, it is good wisdom to play the Sceptic a while, and to inquire, An, & cursit, before Assent, consent, and full approbation be yielded thereunto. Pinellus relateth it, upon his word I take it, that Occam, Gab●el and john Mayor, do positively affirm that Saints departed and with God, 
And how many be there that doubt of that 〈◊〉.  behold no creature at all in verbo per visionem beatisicam: Much less in all probability, the needs and necessities, the votes and petitions, the cries and complaints and several desires of men upon earth, to be manifested and made known unto them, but by other, I know not what, notions, means, and revelations. Catetan, Soto, and Durand he saith, Fly for satisfaction, unto particular revelations. The glass of the Deity they utterly deny, affirming it assuredly, and tantum non de side, that Saints behold nothing at all in the divine Essence. Bellarmine casteth off these their revelations as incredible and improbable. Scotus and Occam will not be beholding unto that imagined glass we speak of: because, as Gabriel Biel relateth it of them, they are naturally endowed, Distinctè & intuitiué cognoscere cogitationes aliorum: That is, they are set down in the throne of God himself, Almighty and Omniscious, who was wont to challenge it as his own peculiar, Ego Dominus scrutans renes: and had it given him without all contradiction, 2 Paralip. v●. Tu solus nosti corda filiorum hominum. And again, he seethe from everlasting to everlasting, and understandeth our thoughts long before. The gloss upon Esay 63. resolveth it, that Mortui etiam sancti, nesciunt quid agunt vivi: etiam ipsorum silij: The dead, though Saints in heaven, and living there with God, understand not at all, what men that live upon earth do. No, not, though they be their own children, of whom they have, in all probability, a more special care. Thus he: expounding that sentence of the Prophet, vers. xuj. Doubtless thou art our Father, though Abraham know us not: and Israel take no notice of us. Which exposition, there the Author of that Gloss, Biell telleth us, did borrow, as indeed he did from Saint Augustine. And lastly, let them consider what consequence will ensue upon this resolution of Saint Thomas: in 1 par. quest. 12. ar. S. in respon ad 4. Inuocatio est de rebus singularibus. Sed talia non faciunt ad perfectionem intellectus Angelici vel beati. Non ergo illum ●ntellectum habent. This is no objection but his own resolution. Where such diversity and inconstancy is, what assurance can men have to rely upon the intercession of Saints, not yet determined how, or whether it may be had and obtained or not?  
Saint Augustine in his fourth Tome. Lib. de Curâ pro mortuis cap. 13. discourseth upon this point at large. Si rebus viventium interessent animae mortuorum. If the souls of the departed were present with, or interessed in the affairs of the living: and if they did really and indeed discourse with us, then when we behold them in our sleep: my most dear and loving mother would in no case leave me now, who in her life time followed me up and down, by Land and Sea, to the intent she might live with me continually. For God defend, that she now in bliss, should be more averse or cruel then when she lived. Believe me, were I grieved at any time, or perplexed: it cannot enter into my thoughts otherwise, but that she would visit and comfort her distressed son; whom sometime she loved with such tender affection, as she could not endure to behold him heavy. But questionless it is true which the holy Psalmist saith, when my father and my mother forsook me, the Lord took me up. If so be then our Parents forsake us in death, how can they be present or interessed in our cares or affairs, any way? And if our Parents have then no such interest in us, who are the dead beside that can tell what we do? how, or wherewithal we are distressed? The Prophet Esay saith, For thou art our Father, though Abraham know us not: and though Israel take no notice of us. If so great and famous Patriarches, as Abraham and jacob, did not understand, how the world went with their posterity, the people that came from their loins, how can it be that men deceased should at all take any notice of the state, or intermeddle with assisting men alive on earth? Thus that learned and most judicious Augustine discourseth to the point. Who yet farther enforceth the truth of this position from the promise made by God unto that good King josias, viz. That he should be gathered unto his fathers in peace, and not see the destruction of jerusalem, nor the plagues that were to come upon that people. Which promise had been to no purpose at all, as he well inferreth, Si post mortem sentiant, quaecum que in vitâ humanâ calamitates contingunt. Bellarmine he answereth nothing to purpose: nor doth himself, I suppose, know what, viz. That the meaning of S. Augustine is; The Saints departed, do not converse with men here naturally, that is, as he expoundeth himself, sicut faciebant, cum hic vinerent. That such an addle and senseless answer should drop from the mouth of such a Master in Israel! or that he should bear us in hand Saint Augustine would so play the child in earnest, as to argue the case, That dead men are not alive when they are dead, That is, do not converse with men then, as sometime they did, while yet they lived, naturally? Though Bellarmine be disposed thus to toy and t●flle, S. Augustine meant seriously, that the souls departed are not interessed at all, do know nothing at all of the passages and affairs in the world: as his whole discourse: the instance of his mother, the example of josiah well declareth. If by naturally, he meant ordinarily, as it seemeth he would have done, if he durst have touched it, because he straight opposeth supernatural interest thereunto: it is most true, that Saint Augustine doth resolve, that ordinarily they meddle not at all, know nothing at all of our affairs, and no other intercourse betwixt them and us, 
Unless by some extraordinary dispensation.  will hold up Invocation then this natural, and ordinary. He granteth, and I subscribe to his opinion, that some Saints may extraordinarily, at sometimes, by special dispensation take notice of some things, and be assistants in some cases, unto some particular persons, Bellarmine himself bringeth that out of S. Augustine which implieth that thus he should have said, enough to discover his own folly. Non ideò putandum est, vivorum rebus quoslibet interesse posse desuntos, quoniam quibusdam sanandis vel adiu vandis Martyres adsunt. Sed ideò potius est intelligendum, quod per divinam potentiam, Martyrs vivorum rebus intersint quon●am defuncti per naturam propriam, vivorum rebus interesse non possunt. This case is put by special dispensation. Put for Martyes only; and not for all holy Saints departed. Put as a special act of God's omnipotency: therefore ill and falsely applied unto ordinary practice for all Saints departed: and that special dispensation made a common course of ordinary practice. Thus like S●s●phus, he altereth and changeth the forms, the stamps, and marks of things, and that all to no purpose, unless special acts of Divine Omnipotency be made common rules of action in course of Piety, and intercourse betwixt God and Man.  

●ut ordinarily 〈…〉.  Yet well far Hugo de sancto Victore, who concludeth this question thus, as B●el setteth it down. Many make question whether Saints departed do hear the prayers made unto them, yea or no. Whether it be possible that Petitioners suits should come unto their notice and understanding. Certainly, it is no very easy matter to set down a conclusion resolute in questions of this nature. For how can we be ascertained and resolved in our knowledge concerning them, we being not able to conceive nor find out, what knowledge they have of us and our affairs, and by what means they attain unto it? This is most sure and certain, that the souls of the Righteous residing with God, in the secret place of Divine contemplation, where they both do see God, and have so fare forth information of things done abroad, as may only extend to advance and augment their own joy, & enlarge their assistance tendered unto us. He meaneth in general, not in particular to this man o● that. Hitherto little advantage is for Invocation: and no matter: For mark what followeth: We desire Intercessors with God, in our need. And what wilt thou more? Dost thou peradventure fear, that happily they will not pray for thee, whose practice is to pray perpetually? How can it then be that they should not pray for thee; if thou prayest for thyself, who yet cease not praying when thou dost desist? But thou wilt reply: If they hear me not, I do but waste words in vain, in making Intercession unto them, that do neither hear nor yet understand. Be it so: Saints hear not the words of those that call unto them. Well: nor is it pertinent unto their blessed estate, to be made acquainted with what is done on earth. Admit that they do not hear at all. 
Neither, whether they do, o● do not 〈…〉.  Doth not God therefore hear? If he hear thee, why art thou solicitous than what they hear, and how much they hear, seeing it is most certain that God heareth unto whom thou prayest? he seethe thy humility, and will reward thy Piety and Devotion. In effect, as if it were concluded by him. It is no material thing or of necessity to pray unto Saints.  

Not the tenet any point of faith:  Be it then unto us as indeed it is not, No point of Faith, but merely brought in out of some private affection's, without any warrant any way more, than incertainties and peradventures, that Saints departed, 
But in 〈…〉.  are to be called unto for Advocates and Assistants in time of trouble, or howsoever. Be it at most a point of Indifferency, to be believed in opinion, or else rejected; but in practice ordinary, a point of flat foolery to call upon them, 
In 〈◊〉, a point of fooly.  who are peradventure Saints, peradventure not. It may be at some time, it may be not, enabled or disposed, we cannot tell, how or how fare; to understand our Petitions and our Prayers; to accept, and accommodate our desires. I suppose the man that understandeth himself, being in need, and in necessity, will in his exigent necessity, (where ever bis dat qui citò dat,) not go so fare about the bush: and that on peradventures will adventure Life and State upon uncertainties. 
 jamblychus a Pagan will stout him for it, whose judgement was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Men make themselves fools, and deserve to be laughed at, that ask good things otherwhere then at God's hands, who is able and willing to come at call: to hear and deliver in time of trouble. Who beside his goodness in preventing grace, that he willeth us to call, before he was entreated, hath given direction in most loving invitation: For immediate access call upon me: thou thyself call upon me, without any advocate at all, or mediator, or any assistant for intercession: As if Invocation of Saints were but idle.  
Last of all they go to practice and imitation, 
Yet is it mainly urged from the practice of ancient times.  thither they appeal: and tell us of use in being long ago: produce us Precedents in ancient times, and tradition without the memory of man. The Fathers did so in the Primitive times: Et vir●s magno, sequi est penè sapere. Since that, God himself hath ratified the custom, and confirmed it by miracles from heaven; and therefore we may safely do, why not, as they have done before, and as God would have us to do, by special warrant.  
This persuasion is a potent one I confess indeed with ordinary men in course of life: 
But that practice not squared by a perfect rule.  because we live by practice and not by precept: are directed by that which men do, rather than by that which men should do. But first we might answer by S. Augustine's rule in point of Precedence and example: where the practices of Superiors in common course do become rules of action unto Inferiors: and that which hath sometime been done so or so, is tendered to be done so perpetually: viz. A sanctis accipe perfectis exemplum. If needs you will go to it by practice, set down for a rule, for to follow that which is of perfection indeed: as being squared by a perfect rule. Go take in Precedents derived from perfect men. Now that is to do as Moses was commanded: To follow the pattern shown him in the mount. That is to do after the rule directed and showed unto him from heaven. The which rule is, Call upon me: and the practice according unto that rule, 
●or the rule is here contrary to their practice.  of those men that in the mount have talked with God, and followed the pattern shown them there. Thus he that was the Father of all the faithful. Thus the eldest of the promised seed: thus he that prevailed with God Almighty: thus the man that spoke with Him in the bush, 
And we have practice ancient 〈◊〉, and 〈◊〉 to that rule.  and saw the face of his Creator. So all descending downwards, righteous men & Prophets, famous & honourable in their time, who called upon Me, the Lord alone, and never upon any but on Me. This ancient universal practice in Israel, their successors in time and place, the Apostles of the Lamb, have commended unto the Church by word and example evermore. Who never in her best parts and purest times presumed to transpose the ancient fixed bounds. If that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the men that came after these in time, and therefore in honour and account come fare short of them, have altered the language once spoken in the land, and babbled in an unknown tongue, We have no such custom, nor the Church of God. The best of their Compeers, the principal and flower of the sons of Seth, I mean those servants of Abraham, armed at all points, against the enemies of Christ, the three hundred and thirty in the Council of Nice, have put a word in our mouths, which may serve as an answer to all objections whatsoever, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Let things continue as they were long ago in the eldest times: In use and practice from the beginning. Innovations grow in, most-what upon the by, and in process of time it cometh to pass, that Exempla fiunt quae esse facinora desierunt.  
But I will not now use this advantage here, 
And, after them the practice and doctrine of the Fathers, if rightly understood, is not much against it.  especially against men of such rank and reckoning, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the men deserve fare better words and usage then so; having been all famous in their generations and such as have left a name behind them. And therefore with awful respect unto the persons and place, I answer, first in general, that their words are not to be taken advantageously, nor cited for assertions resolved, which were never meant nor intended for so peremptory conclusions, as are in these cases deduced from them. We should weigh and consider, what and how we read in the writings of the Father's touching points in Controversy at this day. Non eadem, de ijsdem, ab eodem dicuntur, upon experience we find it, That the same man of the same thing, speaketh differently, in diverse places: With some imputation perhaps of uncertainty and contradiction, yet not deserved: if we consider diverse and different circumstances. In heat of Opposition, by way of contention, some things fall from them now and then, 
For many things beyond their judgement may fall from them in heat of disputation.  which will not hold weight at the beam of the Sanctuary, and the men that take advantage at them in one point, will soon fall off from them in another. S. Hierome is much in this kind, according to the vehement choleric nature and disposition of the man. Secondly, in public and popular collations very often to move affection, 
Or popular discourse.  and gain action in point of practic Piety, they lavish by way of exaggeration, in large hyperboles & amplifications. So the Grecian Homelists, & Chrysostome especially above them all: not in this, but in many other passages also. Thirdly, much is found in them, 
Or related ex opinion 〈…〉.  of which they are reporters, & no more: they relate unto us the opinions of other and not their own: They tell us what was done, but do not intermeddle by way of censure or opinion for their parts. All these when they speak positive divinity indeed, & conclude things the side dogmatically, their Positions then run in another tone, which giveth, though unjustly, occasion of suspicion of contradiction, if men do not consider their sayings perpensedly, or be disposed to take advantage covertly. A case to be exemplified, as shall appear in the present question afterwards.  
Again, it is a point considerable, how many of those Ancients, 
And in many things they are mistaken, or belied of those that produce them.  that either are, or else may be produced by the Opposites for Patrons and Abettors, of Intercession and Mediation by Saints, could in no case condescend unto this conceit, their Positive grounds and resolutions being direct for the clean contrary and flat opposite opinion to be true: viz. That they had no interest at all in GOD; nor yet means or possibility to commence any such suit unto him for themselves, much less for others. It is confessed by the grand Dictator of Controversies, that the Patriarches and Prophets were not invocated of old, under and before the Law, as the Apostles, Martyrs, and holy Saints were after the Law: in regard that Christ was not then come in the flesh, nor yet they in statu, quo anon. For until he came, and in Death descended, and delivered them thence, they were conclusi in carcere, shut up in Limbo, a region of Hell, and did not enjoy the presence of God in glory, nor come near to put up any suits unto him: Again▪ it is by him supposed a chief cause, why many deny Invocation of Saints, Heretics, as he calleth them, old and new, because that they, both are and have been in that error, that as yet they are in atrijs, attending in the Porch or base Court abroad, not admitted to the presence of the Alm●ghty. If things stand thus, as he would have them, then upon supposition of the premises, many ancient Fathers in the Primitive Church, called to be witnesses for practice of Intercession of Saints, do in their intention say nothing to purpose; cannot indeed be produced for witnesses in the point, but are made to speak what they never thought, what they could not think, being men known and confessed to have held this opinion, that the Souls of the Righteous departed hence, are not yet with God, enjoying his Presence, and beholding his face in Glory; but are in Atrijs & in vestibulo domus Dei, and in those Repositorijs, seated God knoweth where, expecting the full accomplishment of their consummation in Christ; in the day of the retribution of the Righteous. This being supposed, needs 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, that hope of great help and assistance from them, by so free access, and representation of our Prayers unto God, as these men talk of; from those, who could not even in their own opinions, intimate their own suits unto God, in presence representatively, being not admitted thither where he had his residence, not coming to look into the Glass of the Deity: For they were, it is taught, in Limbo, a verge of Hell, fare enough remote from God and Heaven. Thus it is determined by him that can tell, Haec quaestio fundamentum est omnium aliarum, (namely, concerning the honour due and done unto them: Canonization of them, Assistance from and by them,) an Sanctorum animae Deum videant, & vere beatae s●nt ante diem iudi●ij. So that Irenaeus, the Author of the Questions under justine Martyrs name: Tertullian, Origen, Hillary, Chrysostome, Theodoret, and others, must be spunged out from the list and Catalogue of Assertors of this point, The Saints departed, may profitably be invoked.  
Farther, it may be noted in this general view, that in many passages of the Ancients, 
And lastly, in many thin●● they are m●●rly Rhetorical.  pretended for this particular: those rhetorical Figures, Prosopopeyes, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and Compellations of holy Saints and Martyrs, to be found in the panegyrical Orations of the Greek Fathers, especially, are directed, not at large to any Saint or blessed soul, as to parties unknown, 
Specially speaking to Saints, supposed to have more particular intelligence, and care of them.  without our acquaintance, but only to such as had, or be supposed to have had, some more special and reserved reason of entireness, presence, assistance, or intelligence with them, than others had, as interessed in the State, Calling, Profession, Place, Life, and manner of Conversation of the Petitioners, or directed unto such as were their familiars and acquainted in this life: and so more private and peculiarly addicted unto them in Heaven. Who peradventure might, as hath been said, through peculiar dispensation, be very careful of their good, intent their necessities and behoof: and through that peculiar dispensation, attend the occasions sometime of their acquaintance, according to that practice and opinion in use, specified in that compact betwixt Cyprian and Cornelius Bishop of Rome. These general Observations, 
These f●●e observations may help us in the allegation of the texts of Father.  may be exemplified in the particular allegations of texts of Fathers; either representatively for the body of the Church in Counsels: or else particularly in their private writings and allegations; which are not demonstrations of the Church Doctrine in those times, but only private opinions of some men, delivered obiter, and upon the by, without any contestation at all; or violence for the maintaining of them. Which severally persuade not, but being laid together, if they speak one thing, and run all one way, may not be lightly rejected or cast off: Nam quae non prosunt singula, multa invant. Therefore to join issue, let us try their force, and see of what efficacy they are of to persuade to a general opinion and belief.  
Dionysius Areopagita leadeth the Ring (as he is cited by the great Master of Controversies) in his 7. Chapter of the Church-Hierarchy, 
See it first in Dien. Ar.  Idem sit, acsi sole suos radios sanis elargiente, oculis, sibi quis oculos eruens, solaris luminis particeps fieri postulat. Sic impossibilium superfluâ spe ille suspensus est, qui sanctorum flagitat preces, & Naturae ipsorum consentaneus, sacras operationes abigit. I will take no exception to the person of this witness; 
Whose Testimony, if it be good,  let him pass for an honest legal man, though he be generally, anciently, and probably also suspected for a counterfeit, and held insufficient to give any witness in upon evidence of Record. To the witness and testimony which he giveth, I answer. Here is no mention of the practice: nor yet justification for the rule of Invocation of Saints. Nay, rather that practice, in general or particular, is disallowed, as unprofitable, because used in a Subject that is impossible. Flagitare preces Sanctorum, is superfluous, because the hope of help from them is impossible. It is, saith he, as if a man that hath no eyes, should expect or desire to be enlightened from the beams of the Sun, which shineth indeed forth unto them that are api nati, fitted to receive it, and capable of it. Nor can the allegation be advantaged any way, because Sani, are comforted and refreshed by the light of the Sun, which indeed shineth unto those that are capable of it: For it is confessed, to hold proportion there with, that the Saints departed, do in general pray for the Estate of the Church militant upon Earth: 
May well be applied against them.  for the state and necessity of particular Churches, or private men their friends, with which they were acquainted in time of life. That is, That the Sun indeed sheddeth, and casteth beams abroad. But the question is of particular Intercession for any man: that is, of applications of those beams of the Sun, to the eyes of the blind in vain, and without profit, which are pleasant and profitable to him that hath his sight. Thus this Testimony, as it lieth in the body of those Controversies, is pregnant against the Pleaders of it. But farther, in the Deposition subscribed with his own hand, 
And, it cannot make for them, if Sancti be so understood, as he meant it.  Areopagita speaketh a fare off, and to another purpose. Sancti in Dionysius Language, are not Defuncti, or Regnantes with Christ, as the Controverser supposeth: but the word is to be taken according to the phrase of those most ancient times. So Saints, in Saint Paul, are not Saint Stephen, Saint james, and such as they, Then dead: The phrase is not once, I suppose in him that way: but men then alive in the bosom of the Church; parts and members of the Church militant. The Saints in Dionysius answerably were such holy men as served at the Altar; as the last words in the Testimony, as it is laid down there, might very well have informed him: Et Naturae ipsorum consentaneas sacras operationes abigit. In effect, Will not regard, or partake of the Doctrine and instruction which they afford him, 
And the latter words restored to their true construction.  or of the Sacraments which they minister unto him. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. In neglect and disregard of the gifts of God; and in breach of his Commandments. Again, I add, that Bellarmine's eyes were not in his head, when he took a view of the Testimony of Dionysius; or else he took up the witness from some Knight of the post, who was ready to say any thing for his own advantage. For the whole discourse of Dionysius in that Section is concerning Prayer for the dead, not unto them: for their refreshing and consolation; 
And the occasion considered, whereupon Dion. spoke them.  not for their actual assistance and relief. Reader do but go view the Evidence, and tell me if the alleager be not either much to seek, or much more too blame: a very silly man, or a sly Sophist, and very Colluder in the point in question.  
Another & a better Evidence is of those times, as ancient, 
See 〈◊〉 against 〈…〉.  and more authentic witness, than Dionysius; a legal man, and without exception any way. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 
 I salute that beloved and much affected name, whom, Oh might I see, placed in my seat, then when I am with Christ, enjoying Heaven. He meaneth Hero, a Deacon of the Church of Antioch, and Successor to himself in that See. Which speech had not passed doubtless from that holy man, had he not been persuaded that the dead with Christ, had notice of, and were interessed in the affairs of the living in this World. I grant this was his judgement or opinion: But yet for all that, this is nothing to purpose. For Ignatius doth not will Hero, 
Who in that which they allege, desires only to know his Successor, and that by special dispensation.  or his people of Antioch, to call unto him after death: no, nor yet assure Hero he would pray for him. The most that we can resolve of, is this, that he should know him to be his Successor, and take notice of him in his Spirit. And that this also by special dispensation. For saith he, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: I would to God I might see him, that is, be permitted to see him, as if it were not ordinary: For than he needed not have so wished, if he could not choose but see, and so take notice of him. It is granted that Saints by special dispensation, may take notice and care, and patronage in some special Actions, of some special men or Societies, in whom they are more nearly interessed, as was Ignatius in the Antiochians. What if I should say, by some natural, though unknown approximation? this will never produce so large an inference, as, therefore, any man may call upon any Saint, in any place, at any time, for any exigence, or occasion. 
And it is only his desire, which proves nothing to their purpose.  He that knoweth the Inualidity of a particular, to infer or conclude a general, will not much be moved with such allegations. Lastly, I add, Ignatius doth but wish it; and a man may wish mere impossibilities.  
Irenaeus, as in age, 
Another Evidence is out of Jrenaeus.  so also succeedeth in allegation. In which the man meant to make us merry, or marvel, in sending Eve the wife of Adam, and Grandmother of all, dead, 
A merry one.  and being gathered unto her place and people, so many thousand years before the Virgin Mary was borne, to invocate for Intercession that blessed Virgin: Et sicut Eua seducta est, (are the words of Irenaeus,) ut effugeret Deum: (read it aufugeret.) Sic Maria suasa est, obedire Deo: ut Virginis Euae, virgo Maria fieret advocata. A mere impossibility in Nature, and in Reason, that the Virgin Mary should be Eve's Intercessor, yet closed up with this Epiphonema, Quid clarius? because there is the word Aduocata in the Text. 
Or else a mad one.  I may say, Quid clarius, that the man is beside himself? Yet so beside him, and out of him supposed, that railing Franciscan, answerable to his name, Fevardentius, took up the same allegation, and as he dreamt it to be Eu●dentissimum, so he scored it also in his margin with this goodly gloss, Beata virgo Maria 〈◊〉 & caeterorum pec●antium advocata est. I wonder he did not add this excellent blasphemy thereunto. Euam & peccantes à morte redemit: For so it ensueth in Irenaeus. Et quemadmodum astrictum est morti genus humanum per virginem, soluatur per virginem. Aequalance disposita virginalis inobedientia per virginalem obedientiam. Much more plain for Redemption, than that former part is for Intercession: yet I hope the man will not fasten such blasphemy unto so great a worthy in Christ's Church, as was Irenaeus. His meaning is this, and no more: That as by Eva sin came into the World, 
Valesse the Father be soberly expounded.  and by sin death: So by the Virgin's means, life, and salvation instrumentally: In that she was that chosen vessel of the holy Ghost, to bear him in her womb, who by taking flesh of her, redeemed us from the curse of death. So she in a sort was cause of Life: and in that sort Mediatrix; that is, Aduocata here: not Intercessor for Eve, who was so long in time before her▪ First then the man playeth fast and lose: the Colluder, 
As by them he is not in a threefold regarded.  in the ambiguity of the word Aduocata. Secondly, he inferreth an impossibility, and therefore an absurdity, that the blessed Virgin Mary did pray for Eve: which must either be in Heaven, and then she needed it not: or in Limbo, and that was but for a time, till Christ in his death descended into Limbo, and led both her, and all other the Fathers thence with himself into Heaven. Thirdly, according to the opinion fastened unto Irenaeus, She is Aduocata to none but to Virgins; and therefore not promiscuously to be called one of Any: and by those of whom she is Invocated, to be so called on, only for a time. For so is the comparison there instituted, betwixt Eva and Maria Virgins.  
To him succeedeth Eusebius in the Controversy, whose testimony speaketh thus, 
A fourth they have out of Eusebius.  as there it standeth reported, out of 13 book, 7 Chapter of his Evangelicall preparation. Haec nos quotidiè factitamus, qui verae pietatis milites ut Dei amicos honorantes, monumenta quoque illorum accedimus, votaque ipsis facimus, tanquam viris sanctis, quorum intercessione ad Deum non parum juvari profitemur. I answer, first, Eusebius doth not speak, 
Where he speaks only of the general mediation of the Saints for us.  of particular Invocation for particular Intercession. But of general Mediation of the Saints in Heaven, who without all question, nor doth any man doubt of it, do pray for Saints on earth in general, according to the nature of Communion of Saints, without any Intercession used to them, Invocation of them, by that other moiety of the Church militant on earth. 
Specially, that of the Martyrs.  Secondly, Eusebius doth not enlarge his speech to all the Saints departed, of any state or condition whatsoever, but, whatsoever it be that he saith, he confineth, it unto Martyrs only, whom he calleth according as the alleager hath it, Verae pietatis milites. Now the case of Martyrs and other Saints is not equal or parallel. For in the opinion of the Ancients, that of Martyrs was paramount to all other departed with God: as enjoying more privileges from God, with Christ in glory, by some specially enlarged dispensation, than they the other holy Saints did: as Saint Augustine teacheth in De cura pro mortius, 18 Chapter. Thirdly, to come home to the point indeed, 
If the place will not rather prove to be corrupted.  Bellarmine wilfully corrupteth, or ignorantly citeth, or negligently taketh up this Text upon credit, by retail: For Eusebius hath no such thing as is pretended. His words in his own language are these: 
〈◊〉▪ 8●.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. In that Section parallelling the opinion and doctrine of the Pagans, the Doctrine of the Church, and revealed knowledge of God, from which at first they derived whatsoever they opened in these points, though with much depravation every way, he relateth the heathenish opinion touching the souls of these men, who had spent their lives for their country's cause, and died manfully in defence thereof. Their happy estate: Their eternal felicity: and from thence descendeth unto Martyrs in the Church of God in these words. Atque ista quident non incongruè usurpari poterunt, de morte utrorum Deo imprimis dilectorum, Quos si verae pietatis milites appellare volueris, non aberrabis. Vnde apud nos in more positum est, illorum adire reconditoria, & ibidem Orationes fundere, animas ipsorum foelices honorare, quae a nobis fiunt summâ cum ratione. Here is no mention of assistance from their intercession: No word of intercession or mediation at all. No praying unto them to pray for us: but only praying unto God. Their God: their God and ours: at their Tombs and Monuments only, with devotion: an usual practice of those times  
The next allegation out of Athanasius, 
The next is out of Athanasius.  may very well come under the censure of the Statute of Rogues: if yet we would learn the place of Nativity, or could tell whether to return it to be kept. He Canteth indeed to purpose, and speaketh home. Inclina Maria aurem tuam, & ne obliviscaris populitui. In so much as that, hear Bellarmine with much greater good reason, might have put to his quid clarius, then to that testimony of Irenaeus. But we know this language was not spoken in Irenaeus' time: nor yet in Athanasius days. The inventor thereof, and Pater fabulae was of much later date. In plain terms: he is a counterfeit that saith it, 
But so that it wa● n●uer in him 〈…〉  not Athanasius whose name he beareth. I do not feign this answer of myself: I do not take it up from the Centuries of Meydenburg. I borrow it not at all from some forlorn Heretics, or misbegotten Innovators: it is the direct Censure of those two 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of Roman Catholic Religion Baronius and Bellarmine: which you may marvel at, but so it is: Of Baronius as Bellarmine relateth: and he saith true; for so we find it, Anno Christi 49. Sect. 19 Of Bellarmine when he was of better judgement: and not tied to point of propugning Invocation: In his Catalogue of Ecclesiastical Writers. Let him therefore pass, this Athanasius, I mean, as a branded rogue, seeing he that produceth him, and needeth his testimony hath discarded and discredited him sufficiently to be a counterfeit.  

Saint Basil hath furnished them with a double testimony.  Saint Basil is the next in this jury of twelve: For so many are empanelled of the Greek Church; who Orat. in 40 Martyrs, directeth us to call unto them in the time of trouble. Qui aliqua premitur angustia ad hos confugiat. Qui rursum laetatur, hos oret. Ille, ut à malis liberetur: Hic, ut duret in rebus laetis. This is the first testimony out of him: 
In the former  for there is another. First, I answer: Basils' words are depraved by the Cardinal's Controversy: 
he is not 〈◊〉 as he speaks.  for he reciteth them as if Basil had given his counsel with approbation, and exhorted men to have recourse to them in time of need. Ad hos confugiat. So he citeth the place: Let him fly unto them. Hos Oret. Let him Pray unto them. But S. Basil in his own language hath no such thing: It is only a narration of practice: without counsel, advice, or approbation. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, doth fl●e unto them. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, hath recourse unto them. There is a difference, I ween, betwixt these two passages, howsoever altered, let him see to that that did it. Secondly, he speaketh not dogmatically, by way of any Positive resolution, but as Orators use to carry themselves in panegyrical discourses. Basil was one of those, 
He speaks like an Orator, not dogmaticlly, as they cite him.  well-nigh the first of those, that excelled in that popular kind of Homilizing, wherein to move affections, and to stir devotions, those Christian Orators took up the course and the practice of great Masters in that Faculty, not plainly to teach, and positively to demonstrate, but to improve their Doctrine and teaching by Art, to settle the better what they would deliver in points of Piety; and for course of life. It was è re Christianâ in those times, much every way, that the holy and most blessed Martyrs of jesus, should be had in great respect and awful regard of men, who if need so required, must tread after them the same steps, must maintain the same cause; and howsoever, stand continually in procinctu, at all assays. That themselves might expect at Pagan's hands, the selfsame measure, meeted unto those Heroes. Now nothing could be more potent for persuasion in that point, then to settle an assurance of their interest in GOD. There honour at his hands received. To be not only highly rewarded themselves, but to have that grace and favour to recommend others: As with men on Earth, which is plain in Cyprian: so with God in Heaven to prevail, recommend to him, and obtain for others what they desire. This point the Fathers press much and often in their Anniversary solemnities upon Martyrs memorials. Now, what is spoken Panegyrically; raised up to height with Hyperboles, and bo●sterings of Art, is not to be pressed dogmatically: For they use to come down to a lower strain, when they speak to the point, yea, or no: More reservedly and suspensly in fare much straighter terms. Again, S. Basil speaketh only of that time & place, the day of their festivity in annual observation: 
And he speaks only of the place, and time of their annual festivity.  The place their sacred Oratory, dedicated to God's holy service in them: At which time, in which place, more specially they might be present, and were so imagined to be, rather than at other times, in another place. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The Church of these holy Martyrs is a refuge ready fitted and prepared for Christians. And yet then, 
And then, and there averreth no invocation of them▪ but intercession by them.  and there, not invocation of them, but intercession by them, is averred by S. Basil. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, join your Prayers unto and with the Intercession of those Angels; with them, not to them, unto God: for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he resolveth God was present there: 
W●llin● them to join in prayer with those Martyrs.  And therefore thirdly we must remember that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, he would have them join in prayer with the Martryes, because that these were more interessed where Saint Basil uttered that Oration, than Saints at large are, or can be, unto any of us. They were all Cappadocians, of that Country: and they not long before Martyred, at least not so long before, but that they then living, might remember them well enough; and they remember the state of that their Country, whereof peradventure, they were deputed to take special care and charge. And so lastly it was a particular case, and relied upon some dispensation only, which doth not warrant a general practice, of all, unto any, at any time indeterminately.  
A second testimony is recited out of the same Basil in his Comment: 
The other testimony is of a higher strain.  upon the 33. Psal. these words of the Psalm, The eyes of the Lord are upon the Righteous: and his ears are open unto their prayers. Where Saint Basil thus: Sanctae spirituales virtutes aliquae, oculi dicuntur, quod curam susceperint nos intervisendi: Nonnullae aures, ut quae nostras suscipiunt preces. 
But not high enough to take hold upon Invocation of Saints.  This passage is indeed of another strain, as putting to decision dogmatically: not related, or amplified Panegyrically. But even this doth not reach home, it is too short to take hold upon Invocation. For he speaketh it of Angels, not of Saints, 
Being meant only of Angels.  and their case is different: their condition not the same. Secondly, not of all Angels in general, but only of some, and so appointed to that Act by special dispensation: which itself is. Thirdly, 
Appointed by special dispensation.  peculiar Protection, as they are Custodes parvulorum. In the text there is a plain diversification of their Act: Some are eyes: others ears: some employed in messages to us: 
As peculiar Protectors.  Others receiving our prayers: but of whom? From them it is probable, that were sent to visit us: either as Guardians, or Extraordinarily: either way no warrant, for Invocation of Angels, or Saints at large. Lastly, he meaneth by our prayers, 
The prayers al●o being understood not of particular men, but of the whole Church.  the prayers of the Church, and not of every particular man.  
Not to divide them in Opinion who in affection were so combined together. Greg. Naz. comes in with a thrave of testimonies: not all indeed brought in by the Master of Controversies, but yet of that Nature & Condition as that they may all speak as well as some: 
Naz●●●zen seem● 〈…〉, as they will have it, that we must take him in parts.  I will produce them as they happened to come to my hands. And first in the nineteenth Oration, as the Copies go, pag. 288. touching his own father deceased, before Saint Sasil then present at the Sermon, 
In the first, he saith in deed, what we deny not.  thus he: Nec dubito quin hoc nunc quoque tanto magis deprecatione suà, quàm prius doctrina, praestet, quanto nunc magis Deo appropi● quat. Nazianzene in this place may well be taken to resolve this position dogmatically. That the prayers of the Righteous in heaven, regnant with God, are more effectual, and do sooner prevail with God, 
That the prayers of the Saints in heaven are more effectual.  than the prayers of men militant in the Church upon earth. This is not questioned when they do intercede. Secondly, Nazianzen resolved there that his father with God in heaven, 
That his deceased Father would not forget his late Episcopal charge.  and happiness, did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, fight for his flock; Do the Office of a Pastor in praying for them. No more do I doubt then Nazianzene did thereof. They whom he meant were sometime his father's Episcopal charge. He loved them, instructed them, cared for them▪ defended them in his life: nor could he forget them being dead. For the soul doth not drink of Lethe lake, to forget the things and passages of this world, wherewith formerly she was acquainted. But I make a question indeed, 
But neither he saith, nor can they prove that he, o● any of his Church prayed to his Father.  whether Nazianzen did pray unto his father: or any of his Church recommended their private necessities, and afterward, occasions unto his mediation or advocation. I read not that he or any else did so. I am sure he prayed not unto him there: Not so much as speaketh unto him by way of Apostrophe or compellation. That which he supposeth his father did for his flock, is also supposed to be done motu proprio, and not upon solicitation. And what is this to the case of Invocation unto peculiar Saints?  
Farther he proceedeth with Saint Basil his friend in his Funeral Oration thus: 
The next is the supposed Invocation of his friend Basil.  Tu verò Sacrum & divinum caput, de coelo nos quaso respice, carnisque stimulum à Deo nobis ad disciplinam datum aut precibus tuis siste, aut certè ut forti animo perferamus persuade, atque omnem nostram vitam ad id, quod maximè conducibile est, airige. Nosque postea quàm ex hâc vitâ migraverimus illis quoque tabernaculis tuis suscipe. As direct an Invocation supposed as may be. Nay rather a desire and a wish, that Saint Basil might be permitted to do so, and so, than a prayer unto him, upon this resolution that he could and would do so. At least not so direct, as is Ora pro Nobis; of strangers every way unto one unknown. 
But to one that he knew.  But indeed as Nazianzen spoke it in his own language, when he spoke it, it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a wish and desire at God's hands: as Billius, a Papist, hath translated it, it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, a prayer. Respice nos (so he hath it) is an higher strain, to an higher note, than 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, o si, or utinam, nos respicias. And that the Translator hath wronged Nazianzens meaning, 
Abused by the Translator.  whereby the Controversor was willing enough to take advantage, appeareth by his own words a little before, whereas the ground of his prayer is but opinion. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. And now he is in Heaven, and there, as I verily suppose, offereth up sacrifice for us, making Intercession for the people. For howsoever he is gone from us, yet verily hath he not utterly forsaken, nor yet abandoned us. All that he avoucheth, whatsoever it be, is but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, as I am persuaded, 
But howsoever unresolued, and grounded upon opinion.  as I take it, and therefore uncertain: and in him unresolued. Nor doth he so much as say, Do this; but, oh that thou wouldst do this for me! Secondly, it is but a point of his rhetoric, and no more: 
And merely Rhetorical.  and so is all that conclusion directed unto him as present there, an ordinary strain of wit and invention in such passages, Nazianzen was not of opinion, I suppose, that Saint Basil really and actively did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, that is, in the phrase of the Church, at that time, offer the holy Eucharist or consecrate it in Heaven: No more was he resolved that those other parts and particulars here specified by him, were then at that time really and actually performed. Lastly, it is a precedent of a particular case, 
And at the best, it is but a particular case of a friend to a friend.  of a friend to a friend, then lately dead: and also concerning that which he might very well remember: and concerning which it had peradventure passed by contract betwixt them, as was betwixt Cyprian and Cornelius, touching 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a stab in the flesh, some certain tentation or other, for removing of which Saint Basil is put in mind to entreat God: Very likely according unto promise and stipulation. So in effect, it is a particular case, 
And so proveth no general practice.  of one friend to another; which can be no precedent for general practice and example. It is grounded merely upon peradventures, not resolved positively: It concerneth remembrance of things formerly passed; and not intimation of things newly done.  
Upon the selfsame terms runneth that which is said to be directed unto Athanasius by the same Nazianzene: 
The next, directed to Athanasius by Nazian▪ is better interpreted.  only the Interpreter is there the honester man, and maketh him speak in the Optative▪ as out of opinion, not in the Imperative, as out of judgement, thus: Nos autem utinam ipse benignus desuper, & placidus aspicias, atque hunc populum gubernes: meque siquidem res pacatae futurae sint, in vitâ adhuc teneas▪ gregemque unà mecum pascas: sin autem Ecclesia, sit bellis flagratura, reducas, aut assumas tecumque & cum tui similibus colloces tametsi magnum sit quod postulo. Which if we take it literally, and dogmatically, Athanasius is made therein much more than a Mediator of Intercession. He could have said no more unto Christ jesus himself. 
And if it be as well understood.  But Gregory was too well grounded in Divinity, and had not his name Theologus, for naught, thus to err; and too religious, thus to fall soul upon Gods own prerogatives. It is a Prayer directed unto God, that Athanasius then in rest, 
It is either directed unto God.  might do for him thus, and thus: as a special friend, as interessed in that common cause of the Church, wherein no man had his part so deep as he, having been in his life, the principal defender of Christian verity, and opposer of heretical impiety. Athanasius against all the World, and all the World against Athanasius. Or if to Athanasius alone addressed, no more but a rhetorical flourish with a figure. 
Or, if directed to Athanasius, to be taken as a Rhetorical flourish.  I need not seek fare, for warrant to this exposition: In the same passage we have, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: Do thou break off my present Oration here. His meaning is, not that Athanasius should either really come down from Heaven, or actually, by some extraordinary course and means from Heaven, make him to desist and break off his Oration, and stop his mouth: But in effect thus, and no more: Let me here conclude, and make an end. Such proofs hath Nazianzene for this Invocation, that Rhetorical Figures, Apostrophees, Prosopoiees, and such like, must go for demonstrations.  
That Oration of his upon Saint Cyprian cometh last, to pay for all. 
And so may we take that also in this Oration upon Saint Cyprian.  The first allegation which is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the same, and may receive the selfsame answer, which that did out of the other upon Athanasius: whereto an ancient Scholiast, and Commentor, whom I have seen and used, in written hand doth accord: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The Conclusion, according unto Rules of Art, is cast into the form of a wish: Therefore to be discussed in Hermogenes School, and not pressed in disputes of Dogmatic and Positive Divinity. Nazianzene concludeth his Oration upon Saint Cyprian thus. At tu nos è caelo benignus aspicias: sermonesque nostros & vitam gubernes: sacrumque hunc gregem pascentem adjwes: cùm in caeteris rebus quoad eius fieri potuerit, Eum ad optima quaeque dirigens: tùm graues lupos syllabarum & verborum captatores amoliens. This passage will not reach home to Ora pro nobis, with confidence, in persuasion, 
He speaks to one that la●ely knew the persons and passages of the Church.  to parties unknown, and not interessed particularly. He desireth it might be so, that Cyprian might do it: he doth not desire Cyprian to do it: For he was not resolved Cyprian could do it. He believed that the Saints departed understood, 
Yet he desires him not to do, what he knew whether he could do, or no.  and took notice of things done here. But by credibility, not by Faith. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, is the phrase he putteth on it: and though in two places he seemeth to go farther, unto 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: yet it is but in some only cases that he so speaketh; nor is that with ordinary resolution. In some Cases, as to those that were but lately departed, acquainted with the persons, and the practice and passages of things in the Church, or of private men: the memory whereof may cause in them a fellow feeling, and procure a careful respect to them in Heaven, and so recommendation unto the Almighty. Thus in his 24 Oration touching Athanasius then with God, he pronounceth. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. I know right well, and am persuaded, saith he, that now at this present Athanasius being in Heaven, doth from thence behold us, and helpeth those that suffer for Righteousness sake. He meaneth, by interceding unto God for them, being a man that in his life had suffered much for Piety and Christ's cause, and drunk as deep of tribulation as ever did any. Out of this compassion from a fellow-feeling upon experience, Athanasius he thought, and so do I, recommended the cause of the Church unto God. But Nazianzene thought not, no more do I, that Athanasius did, or could understand every private man's passages, or needs in the Church. And therefore, neither doth he himself pray unto him, nor adviseth us, or any for to do it. As for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, I know right well, it doth often infer no more than 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Opinion uncertain, 
A● appears by the like doubtful speech.  not Resolution. And what Nazianzene indeed did think of this particular, is plain, and apparent out of his own writings resolved and dogmatic. In his Funeral Oration upon his Sister Gorgonia, 
In his Funeral Oration upon his Sister. pag, 190.  he cometh off directly with this conclusion. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Now if thou have any regard or apprehension of our Actions here, and if GOD doth permit and give that power to the Holy Souls in Heaven, to have any understanding of such passages as these: Receive at my hands this Oration of mine, in leive of, and before many Funerals. The Interpreter doth somewhat draw off his meaning unto a shorter scantling: as if in Gregory Nazianzens opinion, those blessed Saints, did happily take notice of honour done unto them, and happily not: Whereas his meaning is, and so his speech runneth generally, concerning all things, and any thing whatsoever. Bellarmine used a better Translation: Si tibi aliqua nostri sermonis est ratio; but answereth poorly and falsely that Si there, is not Dubitantis, sed affirmantis, 
And though Bellarmine strive to help it forward with a criticism.  as in the Epistle unto Philemon; Si habes me Socium, suscipe illum: In effect Quoniam habes me socium. Indeed as true the one as the other: For Saint Paul not doubting of philemon's willing Obedience, proposeth this as a Condition: 
Spoilt in the illustration, that should have confirmed it.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, If you respect me as a Friend; If you desire to hold friendship and fellowship with me: then receive him. Not receive him, because thou art my companion: A foolish Exposition in common sense and reason. But be the folly of that gloss what it will be; 
Yet, to end all, Nazianzen doth elsewhere better interpret himself▪  Nazianzen elsewhere declareth what his opinion was plainly, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. And hear, 
Pag. 30.  oh thou soul, of great Constantius, if yet thou have any sense or apprehension hereof: and likewise, ye the souls of all Christian Emperors before him, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. If there be any sense is not I suppose Affirmative, that they have understanding, but merely dubitative, whether they have any apprehension or not. He was not resolved, himself confesseth, (and what may we think then of all other passages alleged) whether the souls of the Righteous, at rest with God in Heaven (and in that number he ranked Constantius, whom Athanasius sendeth to another place) had any ordinary notice of things done here: indeed any notice at all. Rather it appeareth, he thought no: and then, what advantage from him for Invocation of Saints or Angels in the Church of Rome?  

Another passage yet they have out of the same Oration upon S. Cyprian, by them not sufficiently explained of justin. ..  But at length we have it home in a second passage selected out of the same Oration upon Saint Cyprian, where justina a Christian Virgin, Virginem Mariam rogavit, ut peri●litanti virgini opem ferret. Thus the Master of Controversies without any more ado, or farther enlarging upon the passage. The Story is thus. The Greek Church had gotten up a strange Story of Saint Cyprian Bishop of Carthage and Martyr, never heard of, nor dreamt of in the Western or African Church, in which he lived and died, not remembered by Pontius his Deacon, who lived with him and wrote his life. And yet it is certain and cannot be denied, the Grecian Tradition can be referred unto no other Cyprian but this. That Tradition is this, That Cyprian formerly was a Pagan, and a Conjurer. That durante his Paganism he fell in love with justina a Christian Virgin of Antioch, whom when as by wooing and ordinary means, he could not win unto his will, he went about to entice and prevail with by Magical spells and Conjurations. Which the Damsel perceiving, fell to work against him, with the ordinary arms of Christians in those times, Prayer, and Fasting, and the sign of the Cross. Puella, simul at que persentit, desperatis alijs rebus, 
Who, after prayer, and fasting, without any Mediator, commenceth her own suit.  ad Deum confugit. Sponsum suum Christum defensorem assumit: recounteth up, and putteth God in mind, of his works of old, the wonders he had wrought in times long ago. Hac atque his plura commemorans, Virginemque Mariam supplex obsecrans, ut periclitanti Virgini suppetias ferret jeiunij & chameuniae pharmaco seize communiret. This is the state of that story in Nazianzene. In relating of it, they first commit crimen falsi. For in the Controversies it is so reported, as if justina, in her exigency had had recourse only unto the Virgin Mary, who nor principally nor primarily had recourse unto her. That indeed had been home to the practice in the present Church of Rome, that take up that course indeed: Run first unto her: solely unto her: not so much as taking in Christ jesus by the way, in mumbling their martin's, and devotions. But this Virgin justina had been better brought up, and taught better things than so. First, she prepareth herself by fasting and Scleragogie, to dispose his prayers and her devotions aright. Then she addresseth herself unto GOD immediately according to direction, 
Addresseth herself first, and immediately unto God, and Christ her Patron.  Call upon me: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. As if there were no help for her but in GOD. Secondly, She taketh Christ her Patron that was her Spouse: for it is more than probable she was a Votary. Thirdly, she taketh in, tanquam ex abundanti, 
And then ●akes in the blessed Virgin, ex abundanti, as a second or third.  the blessed Virgin by the way, as if resolving thus, what she can do I know not, if any thing she can do, a virgin to Christ a virgin, her help and assistance also I implore: So it is to small purpose for that Invocation▪ which addresseth Saints to God, as Mediators where men forsooth, dare not commence their own suits themselves, the contrary being instanced in this particular. And whereas she taketh in the blessed Virgin upon the by as a second, or a third, it leadeth to opinion, 
Which only shows the opinion of those times, that Saints departed could peradventure understand them.  and but opinion of those times, that the blessed Virgin or other Saints departed could peradventure understand some passages here, and therefore if they could they might assist if they would, if nor so, nor so, there was no hurt done. Again, not opinion of the Church, peradventure, but only of some few in the Church: and if those some in extremity, 
And the practice of men in extremity, that lay hold upon any thing to save their lives.  when, & where, as those that are sinking and now to be swallowed in the stream, do catch at any thing to save their lives: so parties distressed use any means, though it help them not, having no time, in exigence to dispute or resolve, quam bene, quam male, with what hope of success they fall upon it. And the rather so, 
And this is the only example of such practice in antiquity, and as weak to help them as she was then to help herself.  because this is the only example of such practice in Antiquity: a good inducement to suppose the Custom was not fare grown in, nor the opinion much prevailing. So that here is but a single practice, of one only Maid, in fearful extremity: upon some uncertain persuasion, that the virgin Mary happily might by extraordinary dispensation, have some special Patronage by assignment over Virgins. Which is no absurdity much less impiety, was grounded on a more general persuasion of the Church, that the Saints, though in heaven, had interest some way in the state of their friends allies and companions: especially for Professions of life, Societies of men, Countries, and Churches whereof themselves were. A persuasion then but of opinion, not Religion: no man compelled to believe or to practise it. Nor itself, nor the consequents thereof points of faith commanded: Grant us this liberty, and we contend not. If they in all assays, practise it themselves, & would teach their Novices and Proselytes so to do, as this Virgin doth, Have recourse, to God, and Christ: to God in Christ: and then ex abundanti, upon the By, help or help not, take in Saint Mary, Saint Peter, Saint Paul, so, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, as Nazianzen phrased it, if they can hear, understand, or help, there is no more but this, If they assist, good and well, if not, no hurt or harm done, God can and will, to whom principally, primarily and before all, we have recourse in Christ jesus, with full hope and confidence of assured deliverance, ad voluntatem, or salutem. But 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: In the Church of Rome it is otherwise: Our Lady hath all Prayer and Devotion addressed unto her. All Saints there attend upon her. Our Lord hath but reversion, at second hand: Our God hath few suppliants, or none at all: every man running to our Lady's shrine, or Saint Curlos.  

And an example only related by Nazianzen, and no more.  And yet farther I add: Nazianzen is but Narrator of this story, and no more, that which he hath is diegematicall, not by way of conclusion, or of approbation. He passeth no censure to it, any way: nor letteth us understand what his own opinion was in the point. And yet by the Master of Controversies, it is alleged as dogmatic, a proof from Nazianzen, and for his judgement in the case: For so was his proposal for the conclusion, that Sancti are Inuocandi, Probatur quartò testimonijs Graecorum & Latinorum Patrum. So that we find a manifest collusion in our great Master here. Beside, the Narration was but an hearsay. Nazianzen was no ear witness thereof, nor doth report it of his certain knowledge. So that peradventure it was, nor so, nor so. And the learned know that this narration of Saint Cyprian, howsoever taken up in the Eastern Church, and believed hath nor view nor appearance of Fact in the West. Nor can be clearly resolved by all the Annalists in the World. Their great Dictator Baronius is plainly buzzarded in the point, and wisely concealing that which he could not reconcile, passeth it over as in a dream. So that the whole story for aught we know or can conceive, is but Apocryphal, 
I know not whether merely Apocryphal.  and this particular narration must needs come under the same verge and rank. Or if not: 
But, if authentical, not of authority enough to confirm their tenet.  but we admit it for authentical, yet singularia have no warrant, to be rules of actions unto others. No more this, than that other of Gorgonia, related also, and with better credit, because ex certá scientiá, by the same Nazianzen, she being his own sister. So it was, that she being desperately sick, when all Physic and hope of help from man failed, as justina in extremity, Ad mortalium omnium medicum confugit. But how? in a peculiar and strange manner. Having some remission of her sickness from the violence thereof, on a night at midnight, she getteth up, and out of her chamber into the Church she goeth; falleth on her knees down before the Altar: intreateth him that was worshipped upon the Altar, of all loves, mercies, & works of wonder, to restore her unto her health: at last, having prayed long, wept much, & watched a good space, she layeth her head down upon the Altar, and threatneth God, so Nazianzen phraseth it, she will never rise up from that place, until he send her health and strength again. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Wonder as it was, See, instantly, she felt herself perfectly whole and sound. This might be done: and doubtless was so: For we believe the public protestation upon knowledge of such a Reporter as was Gregory Nazianzen: But this is no precedent for imitation; No more than that fact of justina, was exemplary, though we yield him the Evidence to be true. Private humours; Singular actions, upon sudden motions of some special instinct, must end where they began; though excusable, tolerable, or available in particular, dangerous they may be for directions unto others, that have no such special warrant as they might peradventure have upon occasion.  
Their equal in time, dear friend and near alliance in blood, 
Gregory Nyssen is yet more plainly panegyrical, in that which they cite.  Gregory Nyssene cometh to speak next. Who performeth more apparently the part of a Panegyrist, in that Encomium of Theodorus, remembered by the Controversor. Intercede as deprecare pro patriâ apud communem Regem ac Dominum. Timemus afflictiones, expectamus pericula, non longè absunt scelesti Scythae. A plain Rhetorical 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, in the very carriage of his Oration: no dogmatic resolution of his faith: yet one such testimony, could our Masters afford us one, or find us one out, is worth an hundred of these that insinuate but prove not, because they do not understand. Nyssen spoke it as an Orator, not as a Divine. In a popular Sermon of Commemoration, not in a Doctrinal determination: as appeareth by that which is added for exaggeration. 
As appeareth by his following exaggeration.  Quod si majori quoque opus fuerit aduocatione ac deprecatione, fratruratuorun Martyrum roga chorum, & cum omnibus unà deprecare. Multorum justorum preces, multitudinum & populorum peccata luant. Admone Petrum, excita Paulum, ut pro ecclesijs quas constituerunt, soliciti sint, pro quibus catenas gestaverunt, pro quibus pericula ac mortes tulerunt. They will not, I imagine, press us to believe, that when any Saint invocated cannot prevail alone and by himself (for their own assertion is, God heareth them always) he goeth unto others and desireth their assistance: yet such a case is put by Nyssen here, as if Theodorus, not being in such grace with God, to obtain, he must be forced to take to himself seconds and thirds, Peter, Paul, and the rest of that glorious company his fellow Martyrs. It is idle to allege such Rhetorical passages, and panegyrical strains, to prove points of difference and Controversy dogmatically. Again, it is to purpose, and must be remembered, that Gregory spoke it on the ninth of November, 
And the solemnity of the time, in which some greater honour perhaps might accrue to the Saint of the day.  the day of his Excess and Consummation under Maximianus, and then kept holiday in that Church. It may be probable, and that is all: For certain it is not, there being no constat of it in infallible truth, only conjectural in opinion) that upon that day, upon that occasion, God, who as he is glorious in his Saints, so is he also glorified by his Saints, doth discover unto that his glorious Saint and Servant, whose memory for his noble Acts, is famous in the Church that day, for the honour that is done unto himself in him, either by Angelical intimation, or Divine extraordinary dispensation, for his more accidentally at least accrueing glorification, some passages, in that place, where he was interessed, that so he may honour him the more, in granting his desires and petitions; for the good of them that in him, and by him, do honour and glorify God. If the Church had such an opinion of old, as peradventure they had, it was but opinion and probable pious meditation; to excite others to go after those Worthy's examples, by recommendation of the so excellent reward. It was no point of faith, nor preached to believe, not believed to practise generally, but left at men's liberty to believe or not. So let the Church of Rome believe it if they will: So they press not all others to believe it with them, nor condemn them of Heresy that do not practise it, nor will believe it. Thirdly, it was a general case, 
Being 〈…〉 touching the whole Church, and the likelier to be known of Saints in heaven.  and touched notoriously the whole Church: that which Nyssen intended in that place, no private occasion, or peculiar interest of some man. It was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. For the state of his Country then in hazard: The Scythians, the Goths, and such other enemies, were then up in arms. Public actions, Universal occasions, long in suspense, much depending, a good while before notorious unto Heaven and Earth, are the subject of that Intercession there intended, which immane quantum di●●ert from such cases as commonly come under their Invocation. Theodorus in Nyssens opinion could not be▪ was not ignorant of these passages, and upon such persuasion hath address unto him. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Although thou art passed the course of this life, yet thou well enough wortest, the sufferings and necessities of man what they be. Beg peace therefore of God for us, that so this Festival solemnity of thine may not cease. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The state of mankind in general not particular: and that also by remembrance of things past, not information of things present: or if so, yet of general report and common fame, not of special notice or intimation. And lastly, what certainty he had hereof, of Theodorus Presence, Assistance, 
And all the while spoken by one full of uncertainties. pag. 1017.  and possibility to relieve, appeareth, by his own words somewhat before, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Wheresoever thou now wonnest, come hither in person, and be a spectator of this solemnity. For we call unto thee again, that hast called us to participate thereof. And whether thou conversest in heaven with God on high, or wonnest in some heavenly habitation above, or Copartner and Companion with the Quires of Angels, art assistant in the presence of theirs and thy Lord: Or else with Powers and Principalities, as a most faithful servant dost honour and worship him: For a little while omit those employments there, and come in friendly, though in invisible sort unto them, who do honour unto thee. These words do not run in such a strain, as soundeth for resolution and dogmatic proofs, scarce for opinion or conceit. And yet if it did, as it doth not, we answer it is an extraordinary case, and therefore, not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to the purpose; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, nor 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, much, often, and frequent come not home to the point. Invocation warranted, must insist upon perpetual deputation thereto: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, always, and every where must come in. It must be a rule of general practice or we cannot subscribe it: let it be done and taught dogmatically.  
Ephraim the Syrian, harpeth upon the same, no other string: 
Their next testimony 〈◊〉 upon the same string of Rhetoric.  Precamur beatissimi, qui pro Domino saluatore, proque illius charitate, sponte & impigrè tormenta sensistis, atque ideò familiarius Domino coniuncti estis, ut pro nobis miseris, etc. Dominum interp●llare dignemini, ut superueniat in nos gratia Christi. Nay he striketh not so full a stroke. For it is but an Apostrophe in general: which inferreth no conclusion at all. Not to any one peculiar selected Saint, 
But toucheth a more general assembly of Saints.  but to the entire and whole Assembly of those happy ones in general. And that not in a peculiar case of need, or private interest of any one man, but in an universal case of mediation: In which kind there is no question betwixt the parties contendant this day. 
In an universal case of mediation.  For it is in Confess●, that all the Saints departed, each several Saint departed, and with God, do and doth incessantly invoke the high Majesty of Heaven, pro Nobis miseris peccatoribus, & de Negligentiae squalore sordentibus: Which Brotherlike affection, and Saintlike performance, is an especial part of the Communion of Saints.  
Cyril of jerusalem, 
Cyril of jerusalem strikes not so strong a stroke.  if yet he be the Author of those Mystagogical Catechisms under his name, which in some ancient Copies are ascribed to john of Jerusalem, who, or what he was, I know not, is recited thus by the Controversor, in more places than one. Cum hoc Sacrificium offerimus, facimus mentionem etiam eorum qui ante nos obdormierunt; primum Patriarcharum, Prophetarum▪ Apostolorum, Martyrum: ut Deus orationibus illorum suscipiat preces nostras. In which saying, he cometh not so fare as Ephraim. He remembreth the practice in the Church in those days: a most ancient and very laudable custom, tending to piety and example of good life, to commemorate the memory of the dead at the Altar▪ 
Speaking only of the Commemorations of the dead▪ after an ancient and laudable custom.  Patriarches, Prophets, Apostles, Martyrs, and Confessors; and withal, to beseech the Majesty of Heaven, that he would graciously accept, regard, and grant their prayers for his Church upon Earth: and mercifully give ear unto their own Supplications then poured out unto him. This Testimony, in my understanding, speaketh to another purpose, not for Intercession by Invocation. The Prayer here intended, is made, not to Saint, nor Soul, nor Angel, but to God: He supposeth, so do all; that those Holy ones with God, 
And of prayers made only to God.  do continually pray unto God for the Church; which prayers he desireth God would mercifully hear, and grant unto them, for the good of his chosen upon Earth: Both parts in this passage, militant, triumphant, employed in Prayer: The prayer of either directed unto God. This only difference, The one as in necessity; praying for themselves, the other in security; themselves interceding for others. Neither Invocating other for to do it: but de motu proprio, and correspondent to their state.  

Theodoret spoke of the like prayers.  Theodoret intendeth no more but so, in that testimony taken into the Controversies: Ego autem huic narrationi sinem imponens, rogo & quaeso, ut per horum intercessionem divinum consequar auxilium: Rogo & quaeso, nor this, nor that Saint, but God alone; to this end and purpose, that by their Intercession and Prayers, I may find assistance: which might be done, although he never said; Sancte, Tu, aut Tu, ora pro me: as being a member of that holy Society, for which they intercede continually. And yet if they did intercede for him particularly, it was upon occasion extraordinary, his pains, and desert of them and the Church, in that History which he wrote, out of which this Testimony is recited, De vitis Patrum. But special Actions and particular Dispensations, as hath been often said, are no rules for general directions of Piety, in point of devotion, and of God's service necessarily incumbent. But whereas the Controversor telleth us, that Theodoret in Historia Sanctorum Patrum singulas vitas ita concludit: If he mean in those precise words; it is most false: 
And, for that which they urge out of his History, is merely belied.  scarce doth he conclude any so. If he understand it to that sense, it is likewise false: For the 1. the 13.16.17. lines have no such thing at all; the rest that have the thing, yet differ, in substance sometime; often in circumstance, very seldom therein agreeing. The eight in number, falleth in with that practice of the Ancients, of friends unto friends, to remember them unto God. Ego autem, cuius, dum adhuc esset superstes, percepi benedictionem, ed ut nunc quoque fruar precatus finem imponam: And in the 18. to the same purpose: Ego autem rogo, ut illam consequar intercessionem, quam huc usque percepi, dum esset adhuc superstes. Not by special Invocation of him, to remember him: but by prayer unto God, that he may remember him: or if unto him, as vitâ; id. Rogans Sanctos, yet not with such confidence, as if he were certain to be assuredly heard: Vitâ vj. Ego autem nunc oro, ut quam dare potest cius consequar intercessionem: He was not resolved what manner it was, but whatsoever it was, desireth to obtain it. So, or we have no certainty in the point, or that which we have, is not to purpose: not to interpose an exception against the party, as incompetent, because suspected or misunderstood, because of that number, who held that Saints departed do not yet see God. Damascene and Theophylact, are not Homines legales, to be empanelled upon this jury of twelve, out of the Greek Church; being both Postnatis unto Primitive antiquity, and out of the verge of the Church's purity: Damascene living in the year 730. and Theophylact surviving William Conqueror.  

Their testimony out of Chrysostome, of the Emperor his interceding.  To conclude with Chrysostome, thus he speaketh to the purpose, in the Controversies: Homil. 66. ad populum Antiochenum circa finem. Name & ipse qui purpuram indutus est; He meaneth the Emperor, the Prince then in state, Accedit illa complexurus sepulchra & fastu deposito stat sanctis supplicaturus, ut pro se intercedant apud Deum: Et scenarum fabrum & Piscatores orat, qui diademate incedit redimitus. He meaneth Saint Peter, Saint Andrew, james, john, and Paul; though Bellarmine's Interpreter, whosoever he was, hath ignorantly, and falsely, and impiously too, translated 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 scenarum fabrum: as if Saint Paul had been a Stage-maker, who was a Tentmaker, as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, or rather 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth, and not a stage-maker, a course of life I dare say he did detest: But let that pass, as not to purpose. I answer first, If the testimony be no better than the title of the Oration, 
If it be true.  it is not worth three blue beans, in a blue bladder: For Chrysost. never made half so many Orations, under that title of Ad populum Antiochenum. Bellarmine himself else where is my Author: 
〈◊〉 de Scriptori 〈…〉 3●8.  Ex homilijs ad populum Antiochenum viginti & una tantum reperiri dicuntur manuscriptae in antiquis bibliothecis. Secondly, this is only a narration what was done: 
Yet it is 〈◊〉 narration, without any approbation of the thing done.  it is no approbation of the thing done, or doing of it. The testimonies recited out of the 5. and 8. Homil. upon Saint Matthew: and 1. upon the 1 Thessaly. do speak of Saints living and not departed, and so are not to purpose, 
The other testimonies speak of Saints living.  or ad rem. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. It is good to enjoy or participate the prayers of Saints: and he instanceth the profit by Saint Peter delivered out of prison, at the prayers of the Church; which I know, and I think our Masters do believe, was of the Church militant, and not triumphant. So Hom. 44. in Gen. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Which we understanding beloved, let us have recourse unto the Intercession of Saints, and entreat them to recommend us to God. But as I said, he meaneth living, not departed Saints: as interpreting that of jer. 3.15. 
And myself could furnish them with a better.  But I will help them to a Text indeed, that cometh home, et rem acu: carrying with it approbation, nor so alone, but also invitation to perform it. Tom. 5. pag. 481. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Not only upon this day, their holy day, and solemn festival, but other days likewise, let us persist and attend upon them at their Memories, (he meaneth, Bernice, Prosdocia, and Domnia) let us make means unto them, entreat them to vouchsafe and undertake the Patronage and protection of us: They can do much with God, now dead, as they could alive; much more and rather dead then alive: For now they bear about them the marks of Christ jesus; and can obtain any thing of our Lord and King, if they but show these marks unto him. And yet this doth not prove precisely and home, 
And yet will not that prove the point in Controversy.  the point in Controversy, no, not though he addeth: If then they have this great power with God, let us by them endeavour to make God our friend, to derive down God's mercies unto ourselves, by continual attendance at their, Memorials, by our frequent repairing thither, having made ourselves in effect their menial servants. We cannot conclude hence, that he believed, 
As not concluding any faith, or practice, or persuasion of his.  or practised, or persuaded Invocation of Saints: but only pleaded it out of some opinion, to help devotion, and stir up the multitude in his popular Sermons, to a reverend opinion, an active imitation of holy Saints, out of those worthy apprehensions of them. 
And spoken rather out of his Rhetoric, than out of his Divinity.  Thus he lavisheth often as a good Pleader, when he carrieth not himself in Cases of belief, as a positive Divine. So speaking of the holy Eucharist, he calleth it fire: He saith, the blood runneth about our teeth, and appealeth to the Auditory, 
As his manner i● elsewhere.  if they have not observed it. At the time of communicating, he saith, we are in Heaven, conversing there with Cherubins, and with Ser●phins: And yet he meant not these transcendent speeches literally, I suppose, no, not in your opinions you Transubstantiators. Nor are all passages in this very testimony so to be taken, 
And as he cannot but be conceived, in this very testimony.  as at first sight they seem to carry sense, and imply. For good Sirs, what 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, marks of Christ jesus, could those three souls in heaven and happiness carry about with them? How could they represent them unto God or Christ, before the resurrection of the body? But if yet you dare avouch that, this speech of his, I hope yet you will not justify 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. To the utmost of our power, let us imitate her. He meaneth Saint Pelagies, who yet slew herself. Consider in the Fathers, and all Writers indeed, How, what, wherefore, and when, is said, and of whom, by Panegyrics and popular Preachers in their Sermons. Otherwise many Impertinencies, Incongruities, flat absurdities, false impieties will ensue and be taught as positive truths.  
Secondly, I answer, it cannot be determined how Chrysostome could be of this opinion, 
The rather, because it is his opinion that the Saints do, yet expect 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  at least in ordinary course of God's dispensation, that holy Saints could help us by recommending our cases unto God: or therefore were to be Invocated, because where he speaketh Positively, as upon, 1 Cor. 15. Hom. 39 and Hom. 28. upon the Epistle to the Hebrews, and in other places, he seemeth to be through for that opinion, that the Saints departed, not yet in Palatio, behold not the face of God in glory, but expect in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the Porch, as he phraseth it, the accomplishment of the reward to the Righteous, and final Consummation of all in Christ. Which opinion cannot stand with our Invocation, where of necessity they must have access, that are to be employed as Mediators, unless Absalon could daily have address unto David his Father, and commend all Suitors unto him then, when for three year together he saw not his face.  
But without all question, whatsoever Chrysostome said, 
And howsoever, that 〈◊〉 do not much need their mediation. To. 5. pag 416.  he would never had died in that defence of this opinion, nor maintained the practice of it against opposers. For he telleth us plainly, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Thou hast no need of Mediators unto God Almighty, nor yet to run up and down from one to another to speak for thee. But be thou alone forsaken, abandoned of all men, no man taking care or tuition of thee: yet come thyself unto God: intercede with him in thy own person, and without all question thou shalt have thy desire. He useth not to grant our desires so soon: nor so willingly our requests when others become Mediators for us, as when we speak for ourselves, although we be otherwise laden with sin. And the same word; almost in another place he hath. To. 1. Ho. 4. ●. in Genesin. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. For as much as we have a merciful Lord and Master, he doth not half so soon condescend to our Petition, 
And, that we are sooner heard at our own suit, then at theirs.  upon mediation, as he doth at our own suit. And farther affirmeth it an experimental truth thus, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Which instantly he proveth by examples. And yet to purpose more enforcedly: To. 5. pag. 546. When we have cause to imply the help of man, we are fain to be at cost and charges: to sue, pray, entreat in most submiss and servile sort. Much ado we need: great business we have to effect it. We cannot directly have access, to give thancks, or to petition in our own persons; But we must make friends, by their Tutors, and Stewards, and servants first, by fair words, by bribes, all the means we can, if yet by mediation we attain our suits. Now no such ado when we deal with God himself: He requireth no intercession for those that sue unto him, nor doth he so readily grant us our suit by mediation of others, as he doth when we entreat him for ourselves; without any mediation or assistance at all. And so in many other places beside, the repeateth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. We have no need at all of Mediators: 
Unless they will have Chrysostome various and contradictory to himself.  Shall we think that Chrysostome forgot himself: or spoke as his present occasions led him, without respect unto the truth, saying, unsaying the same thing? Believe it who list. But Positively he addresseth Te unto Me, God unto Man, without any Mediator at all. Ex abundanti peradventure, 
Who, though he might perhaps take them in ex abundanti: yet neither was that his ordinary course.  he thought Saints departed might sometimes in some place upon some occasion give good assistance unto our Prayers. Ordinarily the course is, Call upon me: Extra ordinem, it may be, use their assistance. Generally they may pray in the consent of the Church: particularly they do, or do not as happeneth. Happen it may occasionally, as Martyes upon their festivals: which some Ancients thought. Then especially: but otherwhiles also. A case not resolved on in those days. And therefore as if it were no general belief, he addeth that their Suffrages at other times, may do good, but most probably, in all likelihood upon their Nativities, unto such as make their prayers at their memorial: not so much invocating their special and private assistance, as upon this occasion, that God will that day extraordinarily extend his loving kindness for his servant's sake. That day, and in that place alone. For that day they did imagine them to be present: and as present so spoke unto them. 
But only upon d●yes of peculiar respect. To. 5. pa, 505.  Thus Chrysostome elsewhere of Saint Ignatius. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. In consideration and regard hereof, let us prefer our abiding here before all other content and pleasure whatsoever. That so being advantaged with much content, we may, through the means of their intercession, become Inmates with them our fellow servants. And this was rather in the opinion of Him or Them that came thither, 
And rather fitting himself to the opinion of others, then expressing his own.  to visit their shrine, by working upon his or their affection, then in any actual or real performance of the Saint toward them, as the same Father expresseth it in his second Oration upon the Martyr Babylas. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The very sight of the Coffin presented by view to the understanding, amasseth it straight, and so affecteth it in that very sort, as if the party there interred were present really, to be seen with the eye, and together in prayer unto God joined with us. A plain proof of Chrysostom's resolution in the point, who seemeth to be ●o very much for Saints mediation. A strong imagination, and no more; an impression, no reality upon the understanding. And he addeth yet a case parallel of those men, that having lost some one dear friend or other, and going to visit the place of his burial, imagine that they behold him personally there, which we know is an ordinary impossibility: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, address their speech unto him or them, as present, as hearing, instantly. Imagination is strong, they say, and doth much: sure it doth, which produceth such effects in Invocation: for which, 
Neither will they have any better success either with the Greek or Latin Fathers.  if Chrysostome may interpret his own meaning, there is no great warrant in his works. Thus the jury of Greek Fathers, ten of them at least, have said, what they knew, or could speak in the Case upon their knowledge. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Not at all to purpose, nor answering the question propounded to them. The Latins succeed, if not more full to purpose, yet more frequent to the point. For to supply defaulters if any were, there are returned well-nigh a Decem non tales, as being postnatis, and so partial, that speak indeed to the practice since it was in being, out of the verge of our limited time, Gregory the Great, he of Tours, and some other. And yet against the foreman is more exception: For they are honest men at least, of good reputation in the Country amongst their neighbours although their witness, as interessed, be not receiveable: but Cornelius, is a Counterfeit, no legal man, a flat Knight of the post. Ex Latinis, saith Bellarmine, St. Cornelius Papa, in Epistola 1a. quae est de translatione corporum Apostolorum, is the first and foremost that is brought to speak: much to the prejudice of this cause: more to the just reproof of the Defendant, that bringeth that party to speak for him, whom himself, elsewhere, will not acknowledge otherwise then for a Rogue. For there he resolveth that only four Epistles of Cornelius are extant, and this alleged is none of them. 
De scriptor: Ecclesiae.  But he set forth his book of Ecclesiastic Writers since, and therefore more advised upon better search, and second thoughts, he hath not authorised the Epistle as authentic. But admit Cornelius were the Writer thereof, and not some boy of the Scullery, or of the Stable, yet the fellow whosoever speaketh not to purpose: Orantes Deum, & Dominum nostrum jesum Christum, ut intercedentibus Sanctis suis Apostolis, maculas vestrorum purget peccatorum. The prayer that is made, is to jesus Christ, and to no Saint. There is mention of Intercession, but without Invocation. Nor needed that. For he meaneth only such and no other Intercession but such, which the Apostles of the Lamb, and Church of the redeemed in heaven, did make unto God, for their Brethren yet in Earth. And even that Intercession is not enlarged unto all, but confined unto the Apostles alone, Saint Peter, and Paul, because the present occasion touched them alone. The most that can be made of it, is this, that God would be pleased, to apply the general Intercession of those Apostles, in, and with the Church triumphant, unto this part of the Church Militant, that at present did this honour unto those Apostles: this is all.  
Saint Hillary is the next man, 
Saint hilaries testimony is more true, then material.  and his witness is true, upon Psalm ●29. but not to purpose, He speaketh only of Angelical Intercession, Intercessione Angelorum non naetura Dei indiget, sed infirmit as nostra: 
As speaking only of Angels.  Not a word touching Invocation or Intercession of Saints. Now Saints and Angels as it hath been declared, are ill and ignorantly combined per omnia, in this case, which are most▪ what 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Incompatible companions in the point. Secondly, he speaketh of particular Intercession, for them, 
And of particular Intercession.  unto whom they have been employed, or unto whom they are assigned: The first is a singular extraordinary case, and so holdeth not for general practice every where. The second is ordinary, as is supposed; which if it be indeed as is supposed, than it is to purpose, but not to the question; and therefore this witness might have been spared, as that is in part out of 124. Psalm, where if any intercession be intended, it is that in general for the whole Church. Sed neque desunt stare volentibus Sanctorum custodiae: neque munitiones Angelorum. And anon, to explain the praesidium he meaneth: Ac ne leue praesidium in Apostolis vel Patriarchis ac Prophetis vel potius in Angelis qus Ecclesiam quadam custodiâ circumsip●runt, crederemus, adiectum est. Et Dominus in circuitu populi sui. This is their Praesidium, a sure one indeed, the other is accessary and for all, out of that Communion and Society of Saints in the both Triumphant and Militant Church.  
Saint Ambrose is produced to speak next, but he speaketh not home as they would have him: 
Saint Ambrose speaks not out of full resolution.  nor to purpose as they allege him: Obsecrandi sunt Angeli, qui nobis ad praesidium dati sunt. Martyrs obsecrandi, quorum videmur nobis corporis quoddam pignore patrocinium vindicart. Possunt pro peccatis rogare nostris, 
But only out of some opinion of their patronage.  qui proprio sanguine, etiamsi quae habuerant peccata laverunt. Isti enim sunt Dei Martyrs, nostri praesules, speculatores vita actuumque nosirorum. Non erubescamus eos intercessores nostrae in●irmitatis adhibere, quia ipsi infirmitatem corpori●, etiam cum vincerent, cognoverunt. The very carriage of this passage telleth us thus much: that Saint Ambrose spoke it not as out of resolution▪ or conclusion Theological. It was but opinion that they were our Patroni. His speech bewrayeth his meaning; Videmur, we do seem to have it and no more. Secondly, 
And that opinion: 〈…〉 as patrocinium quoddam is from full patronage.  it was restrained even in that his opinion, & not left at random or full liberty: Patrocinium quoddam is all he can stretch unto, he could not well resolve, what, where, or when it was afforded. It is not an impossible thing for them to pray for us. And he that saith so, & no more but so, might as well be produced to say it was no certain thing. Beside, Saint Ambrose there speaketh of there Intercession in Genere; for the Church, not in particular for any man upon occasion: 
And not more uncertain than too general Intercession at large.  and of Invocation at large, that which is elsewhere more clearly explained: that God would be pleased to accept and to grant the prayers and Petitions that they make for us, the Church yet militant upon Earth: being certainly inserted into the Covenant of grace, Baptismo sanguinis, and by shedding of their own blood, so seeing and enjoying God, that like unto Angels Guardians they become unto us, Praesules, vitae speculatores, actuumque nostrorum: unto whom res nostrae, did belong and appertain, as the joint Actions of a Community do in common to any of that Society. The manner how they were so: The terms how fare they were so: The means whereby they did so, he resolveth not, he could not tell, and therefore contenteth himself in general terms with that only Intercession, which without all doubt they make for the Church: which may cause them desire to know what they can, though what they might know, he, nor no other, could certainly tell, and therefore could not warrant, as indeed he doth not, any ordinary Invocation of any one Saint, for any particular occasion whatsoever. What his opinion was therein, no man can better tell then himself: or speak to more purpose than he hath done. In Comment: ad cap. 1. Epistol. ad Rom. where he concludeth, Ad Deum, quem utique nihil latet, promerendum, suffragatore non est opus, sed ment denotâ. It was not then of necessity in Saint Ambrose opinion, to use Intercession of Saint or Angel. He might go himself by personal address, and every pious devout man might so go in person, needed not use Intercession of any: if any did interced for him good: if none did, yet lost he nothing thereby.  
Lastly, whatsoever Saint Ambrose hath, or opined in that place, it is not meant de sanctis, with God in general, 
And not mean● de sanctis 〈◊〉 in general, but of Martyrs' 〈◊〉 particular.  but only of Martyrs in Particular. Now their case was singular, their privileges surmounting in the opinion of antiquity. And therefore what by some is applied unto Martyrs is not to be transferred unto all in general. It was an use in the Primitive Church to pray for the dead: how and wherefore I dispute not now. But he that should do so for any Martyr, in Saint Augustine's judgement much wronged the Martyr.  
Hierome concluding his Funeral Oration upon Paula, 
Gregory Nazianzen hath taught Saint Hierome, also how to Rhetorize.  desireth her in heaven, to assist him with her prayers thus. Vale Paula, & cultoris tui ultimam senectutem Orationibus j●ua. This he learned of his Master Gregory Nazianzene: and both of them as Panegyrists, in Rhetorun scamnis. For it is no more but a Rhetorical conversion unto her, not of force to conclude a Divinity problem.  
Secondly, I answer, it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a wish: and not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, 
And it appears as it is, only a wish.  a direct prayer unto her.  
Thirdly, it was addressed to one, his most familiar, inti●e, and ancient friend: and therefore no way obligatory, or exemplary for us, 
Addressed to a late familiar friend.  ex opere operato: and it may be he spoke it out of assurance of, or with reference unto, some promise or compact betwixt them made, as in the case of Cyprian, and Cornelius.  
Lastly, Hierome was persuaded she did remember him already, 
Upon ground of her kind remembrance.  and so it was no prayer by direction: For so elsewhere we find it concerning Blesilla, Loquitur illa, & alia multa quae taceo, & pro te Dominum rogat: mihique, ut de eius ment securus sum veniam impetrat Peccatorum. Max●imus of Turin by the like address concludeth his panegyrical Sermon upon Saint Agnes. 
The like address Maximus of T. had unto S Agnes.  Itaque O splendida Christo, pulchra Dei filio, & omnibus Angelis et Archangelis grata, ut nostri meminisse digneris, quibus possumus precilus exoramus. He made that Sermon upon her Anniversary mind day: and as than fortè present, at that special occasion, by peculiar dispensation: so he directeth his speech unto her: and that not with confidence of being heard: 
Without any great confidence of being heard.  Quibus possumus precibus, is as much as nothing: In effect, as I can, so I direct this my address unto thee: hear and help me accordingly as thou canst, and mayst: So the man, in the point, was not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; He was not so fully persuaded of that, or any Saint's assistance, as that he went farther than opinion. In another place, to that purpose, he speaketh so reservedly, Ideò veneremur eos in saeculo, quos defensores habere possumus in futuro. Possumus, peradventure, and no more: uncertain he was whether I, or no: And yet farther, Possumus, save only those as we were sometime interessed in here. And thirdly, Defensores, upon general cases of the Church: not in particular assays of our own.  
The Emperor Theodosius in Ruffinus History, Lib. 2. cap. 33. doth not invocate any Saint, 
And we cannot think much otherwise of Theodesius.  or Saints at all: only upon that exigent of the Rebellion of Eugenius and his Complices, he went in Procession with Clergy and Laity that were firm unto him, in great devotion, to the Oratories, Churches, Chapels, Sepulchers, and Shrines of the Apostles, of Martyrs, and other holy Saints: there he made his prayers unto God in Christ, not unto them, though he were so persuaded they could and would take notice of him, and assist him with their prayers unto God Almighty; as well they might then, and he be so persuaded at that time concerning them, in such a public action as that was, in which not only the Imperial Majesty and State, 
Though his was also in a 〈◊〉 action, ●●●thing both the Imperial State, and the State of Religion.  but Christ an Religion also lay at stake, upon the hazard and trial of that day's adventure. If then any some, or all the Saints of Paradise did assuredly take notice, and were informed in particular, and this were also to be proved, yet is it no warrant for their ordinary knowledge in other passages, nor yet for extraordinary when we will have it: no more than that we expect in all actions of Annes, against: Rebels, Traitors, Tyrants, or Infidels, God declare himself so as then he did. For so it is, God shown himself then the Lord of Hosts indeed; and the Mighty God of battle, if ever else in the sequel of this action against Eugenius. For this is that memorable action, concerning which Claudian wrote thus.  
Te propter gelidis Aquilo de monte procellis  
Obruit adversas acies, 
Panegy ad Honour: in 3. eius Consulatis.  revolutaque tela  
Vertit in authores, & turbine reppulit hastas  
O nimium dilecte Deo, cui fundit abantris  
Aeolus armatas hyemes, cui militat aether  
Et coniurati veniunt ad classica venti.  
What friends Theodosius made in this exigence, upon whom he called, unto whom he had address, Ruffinus relateth in the same place, Tum verò ut conversas suorum acies vidit Theodosius, stans in editâ rupe unde & conspicere, & conspici ab utroque exercitu posset, proiectis armis ad solita se vertit auxilia, & prostratus in Conspectu Dei, Tu inquit, omnipotens Deus nosti, quia in nomine Christi filij tui, ultionis iusta praelia ista suscepi: si secus, in me vindica, si verò cum caussâ probata, & in te confisus huc veni, porridge dextram tuam, ne dicant forte Gentiles. (For they were Pagans, or addicted unto Paganism in the action) ubi est corum Deus? 
In which exigence he prevailed by his own immediate Invocation of God himself.  Thus the Emperor then prevailed not by intercession of any Saint, but at his own immediate invocation unto God himself, as Socrates, Theodoret, Sozomenus relate it: and it is expressed by Ruffinus, that this was, and had been his use of old, often approved with success: ad solita se vertit auxilia. So nothing is gotten by this allegation: To advance the proof farther for their advantage, beyond the observation of the Controversor, 
Lib. 7. ca 24.  Sozomenus reporteth that the Emperor setting forth upon his voyage, made his recourse unto God in a Church, which he himself had builded in honour and memory of Saint john Baptist, 
For whatsoever is related of his Invocating john the Baptist.  seven miles distant from Constantinople, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, earnestly entreated the Baptist to assist him: nor only so, but he did this with success. Fertur enim, saith the Story, quod eo tempore quo pugna haec committebatur, ex eo templo Dei, quod ad septimum lapidem situm erat, in quo preces fuderat Imperator egressus daemon quidam, abreptus in sublime, johanni Baptista convitiatus sit, & capitis obtruncationem obiecerit, magnaque voce clamarit, Tunc me vincis, & exercitij meo insidiaris. But the credit first of this Story may be questioned: 
It hath little credit.  for Socrates, and Theodoret, elder than Sozomenus, have it not; and Sozomenus himself hath no greater warrant for it then hearsay: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the report is: but who the Author was, what credit it was of, is not related. Theodoret reporteth, that not john Baptist, but john Evangelist, and Philip the Apostle were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and assistants unto the Emperor's Forces. But be the Story authentical, and of incontrolable credit, it is a singular fact, joined with miraculous operation of him, who is ever glorious and admirable in his Saints: but then especially, when as his own glory, and the state of the Catholic Church doth lie at stake, as it did upon the hazard of that day's success. Such singular passages, are not to be called into precedent, unless also we expect the like extraordinary and miraculous deliverances in our addresses. Lastly, the Emperor had repair unto God alone, 
At the least, it is but a prayer, that God would appoint the Baptist for aid.  without any mediation at all: it is plain in the Text, afterward 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, he yet farther calleth upon God, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, that he would appoint the Baptist for to aid him. But to put it home for the most advantage, admit that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, he calleth upon the Baptist indeed, and without more ado; it is not to assist him in his prayers unto God: but having gone himself in person, with confidence first unto the Throne of Grace, 
And being in a Church dedicated to him, he might the better take him in by the way for assistance.  he taketh in, over and above (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) the furtherance of the Baptist, as a second, not as a principal: as peradventure able to do some good, being occasioned by the place where he made his prayers unto God, the Church of Saint john Baptist, by the way.  
The two next are Paulinus and Prudentius, 
To the testimony of Paulinus and Prudentius, it is enough to say, they are Poets.  Christian Poets, who use the liberty of Poets, Quidlibet agendi: They may pass on: and if he need testimonies of this kind, I can afford him 500 as fit, as pat, as pregnant as these, and build him up strange positions in Divinity; if I may be permitted to take and allege literally, and sensu primo, the enforced passages of Poets, Christians as well as profane.  

And of Victor, that he is an Historian.  Victor Bishop of Utica, is an Historian: and such are Narratores, of other men's Acts, not expositores of their own opinions. Narrations have no more weight or worth, then have those Authors from whence they proceed. But Victor in this place laying aside the person of an Historian, taketh up the carriage of a Panegyrist merely: 
That takes up also the carriage of a Panegyric.  To deplore the calamity of the Church in those times, by the barbarous Vandals, etc. he conventeth, as it were, the Catholic Church by parts, and addresseth his Rhetoric in this wise, Adestote Angeli Dei: D●precamini Patriarchae: Orate Sancti Prophetae: Estote Apostoli saffragatores: Praecipue tu Petre beat, quare siles pro ovibus & agnis, à communi Domino magnâ tibi cautelâ et solicitudine commendatis? Thus he expostulateth with Saint Peter, and chideth him, you will not suppose, really and indeed, but only Rhetorically & figuratively, no more then to express Art, rather than Piety therein: and why not in like sort for Invocation, in which sort and fashion he goeth on, Tu Sancte Paul, gentium magister, cognosce quid Vandali faciunt: which a man might as well produce, to prove that Saint Peter and Saint Paul, were ignorant of, not interessed in the calamities of those times: and so fare of to be invocated, or their help implored by the Church, as having no notice thereof at all.  

The next testimony.  Fulgentius was a man of worth in his time, but the testimony produced is none of his: It is suppositions, and a counterfeit. The whole Homily is in Saint Augustine's works, Tom. 10. as one of his, under title of Sermo 15. de Tempore. 
Nor deserves any.  The Lovanists, found it ascribed unto Seucrianus in some Copies, which argueth it a straggler, a masterless piece, a rogue: And more than that, a blasphemous varlet in this very place recited by the Cardinal Controversor. Omnes cursus naturae virgo Maria in Domino nostro jesu Christo suscepit, ut omnibus ad se confugientibus foeminis subveniret, & sic restauraret (so it followeth, where the Cardinal left of) omnegenus foeminarum ad se venieutium, nova Eua seruando virginitatem: sicut omnegenus vivorum Adam nows recuperat Dominus jesus. Is not this a varlet in grain: a fit Patron for Invocation, that in the very grand-work of Redemption parteth stakes betwixt Christ jesus and the Virgin Mary, that entitleth her novam E●am, as Christ is called nows Adam. That professeth she restored all Womankind, as Christ did all Mankind. I suppose William Postel coined this work to give credit and countenance unto his old Beldame. Howsoever the Cardinal wanted witnesses it seemeth, that took in such a Rascal to make up a number, for want of better evidences, and to purpose.  
As for Saint Leo, 
The other of Leo, if they were doubled could not help their cause.  he might afford him many more testimonies of like nature, concerning Saint Peter's Intercession, as Serm. 3. in die Anniversario, Serm. 1. de jeiunio. 10. mensis. Serm. 5.6.8. in Natali Apostolorum. All which extend no farther than this, that some special Church and people, as Saint Peter had over the Roman Church, 
Being all of particulars.  and yet Leo goeth no farther than this, By his merits and Prayers, we hope to find assistance: Intercession, without any Invocation. These testimonies look toward Intercession: that produced in the Controversies is for neither: Unless this may be remembered for to establish Invocation, Make you friends of the unrighteous Mammon, that is, make Intercession, and call upon Mammon. For the text of Saint Leo looketh that way, Per bonam aemulationem, ipsorum exambi●e suffragia.  

Saint Augustine's authority would have prevailed much, if he had favoured the cause.  I have reserved Saint Augustine for the last, as being the man upon whose shoulders for dogmatic points disputed and resolved, the Church of God hath as much relied, as upon any since the Apostles times. For scarcely is intercession found in him, unless it be of Martyrs, who in the opinion of the Church, and also of Saint Augustine, 
But he resolves it, only as an act of special dispensation for Martyrs.  had an especial privilege above other Saints. And therefore he that yields Martyrs as were interessed, rebus viventium, denieth it precisely of other Saints. Non ideò putandum est vivorum rebus quoslibet enteresse possed defunctos, quoniam quibusdam sanandis vel adiuvandis Martyres adsunt. Sed ideò potius intelligendum est, quod per divinam Potentiam Martyres vivorum rebus intersint, quoniam defuncti per naturam propriam vivorum rebus interesse non possunt. So that by Saint Augustine's resolution it is an Act of special dispensation, no natural ability or sufficiency in any Saint, to take notice of any thing done upon earth. And secondly so an act of special divine dispensation, that it belongeth unto some only, and is not communicated unto all generally: Martyrs alone have that privilege. Which instance of Saint Augustine, out of the opinion of the Church, answereth well-nigh all allegations, of any practice this way for Invocation or Intercession in antiquity. And lastly, Martyrs with some limitation, Ad memorias eorum, 
And for them too, with some limitation.  and not elsewhere. These Memoriae being now no where extant, Invocation in his opinion is ceased. Or else in Natali eorum die upon the day of their consummation: which being but once in the year: and in so long a tract of time, uncertain also, Invocation can be but seldom, and then too uncertain: and they being only to be then Inuoked, do make Intercession only then. Sicut dicit Apostolus non omnes sancti habent dona curationum: ita nec in omnibus memorijs sanctorum ista fieri voluit ille, qui dividit propria unicuique, sicut vult. August. Epistola. 137. And the testimonies recited in the Controversies out of Augustine are all for Martyrs, not Saints of any other rank or reckoning, betwixt whom and Martyrs he putteth this difference, that Cum pro caeteris defunctis oretur, Martyrs pro nobis rather intercedant.  
Thus they spoke and wrote that for five hundred years or thereabout after Christ, 
And so it was resolved by the first, and best in the Primitive Church.  were the chief and principal amongst the Worthies of David. Whereof not any one speaketh positively to the point, as in full resolution of the truth of that conclusion. Holy Saints and Angels are to be Invocated. 
And therefore the latter Writers.  Those that remain upon record, filled up in the Controversies, Gregory the first, Gregory of Turon, Bede, Anselme, Bernard, are later, postnatis, to the practice grown into use, and therefore not authentical in the question. Nor did Philip Melanthon at all enlarge Quiante Gregorium ignotam fuisse scripsit sanctorum Inuocationem. Namely, for use and approbation of the Church. 
And Decrees of Counsels are the less to be listened unto.  As for decrees of Counsels in determinations of Faith: Our Masters of Controversies are not much troubled with any great store of them. In the appendex unto the Council of Chalcedon, the Bishops of Europe writ thus unto the Emperor Leo. Sanctissimum Proterium in choro, & ordine sanctorum Martyrum ponimus, & ejus intercssione misericordem & propitium Deum habere postulamus. But first of all it is no Council decree: indeed it specifieth a practice of the Church, and so also a belief. They used to pray unto God that he would be pleased to accept the Intercession of Martyrs: which is nothing to the point in question. For here is invocation directed unto God, not Saints. Intercession of Saints is remembered, but not of all: only Martyrs. Then Intercession is not Invocation. It is, and may be where Invocation is not, etiam in particular, but this is also in general. For, if not the whole Church represented, yet for the Church representing in a special action, a peculiar time, singular occasion so remarkable and notorious, it could not be hid, they desire God, that Proterius might remember them, and commend them unto the Majesty of Heaven. The second allegation is of less operation, Flavianus post mortem vivit: Martyr pro nobis orat: It is only an asseveration what he did, not Invocation, that so he might, and that which he did, was a special case, of Intercession for them whom he knew in the flesh: of deprecation for the state of the Church whereof he had special notice in his life, being therein interessed particularly: But, quid hoc ad Bacchum? for ordinary practice commonly? Show me any positive assertion of Father: any Decree of Council within the time prefixed of 550. years, and I subscribe.  
As for miracles, 
And the miracles which they report, least of all to be believed.  I believe them when I see them. Sure I am, there is much cozenage and collusion in them. The Donatists were wont to brag much of them: Quae figmenta mendacium hominum, vel portenta fuerunt fallacium Daemonum, in the opinion of Saint Augustine. For even the Devils those Gods of the Gentiles wrought miracles, and true ones substantially, for the confirmation of Paganism and Idolatry. 
Orata. in Iuda● 1.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. For even the Devil, saith Chrysostome, hath by his Art and cunning cured many diseases, and restored men unto their health again. What then? Shall we therefore subscribe unto, and partake of their impiety? God forbidden. And who knoweth not Heretics have ever run this course to confirm their impieties from such delusions. Adijcient multa de authoritate cujuque doctoris ●aeretici: illos maximè dostrinae suae sidem confirmasse: mortues suscitasse, debiles reformasse, futura significasse; v●i merito Apostoli crederentur. Quasi nec hoc s●riptum sit venturos multos, qui etiam virtutes maximae● ederent, ad fallatiam munie●dam corruptae praedicationis. 
〈…〉. 44.  So that in opinion of Tertullian, it is no safe proceeding by this Mirabiliatian courses, to justify Invocation of Saints or Angels. So that no reason but to embrace Chrysostom's resolution, 
For either they confirm nothing▪  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Credit is to be given to the Scripture, rather than unto Miracles whatsoever. But to grant them true, truly done, by the only finger of God, yet being, as they are, extraordinary works of wonder, whensoever they confirm that for which they are alleged, we may do well to remember, that what they so confirm, are also extraordinary dispensations, 
Or nothing but extraordinary dispensations.  not to be drawn into practice ordinarily, and so nor they, nor their effects any thing to purpose.  

And so they must every way fail in the 〈◊〉 of Intercession  Show me, to conclude, any positive practice in antiquity, not one or two examples of some private parties. A received resolution for the verity thereof, concluded dogmatically. Demonstrate unto me infallibly, by reason, Scripture, authentic tradition, that Saints departed are call of them, or any of them interessed ordinarily, rebus viventium. That by either Evening or Morning knowledge. Natural endowments, or acquired accruments. By divine revelation. Angelical relation, 
Till they have found us better assurance, that they know, and are interessed in our affairs.  or other means they do or can know and understand my necessities, exigences, prayers, or practico in any time or place when I call upon them, or unto them, and I will unfeignedly join hands of fellowship, and say, Saint Peter, Saint Paul, pray for me. Until that, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉; and so I think will any, desire to be excused for Invocation: For to be persuaded as some have told me they are, that in their opinion Saints nor do, nor can be privy unto my necessities, nor hear my prayers, and yet to pray unto them, is to my understanding so poor a part of Piety, that it is without warrant of common sense. It is peradventure possible, saith Saint Augustine, that the dead know something done here amongst us, by relation of Angels, Qui rebus quae aguntur hic praesto sunt, and beholding the actions and occasions of mortal men with whom they converse, peradventure make report of them in Heaven. Such things and no more, and no other than those are, which he to whom all things are aperta, and in subjection, thinketh fit and convenient for them to know. Somewhat God may be pleased to reveal and let them know immediately from himself. 
(Unless as we by particular Revelation, may know of theirs.)  Some men may have at some certain times particular revelation, or peradventure apparitions from the dead: as Saint Paul yet living 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, was rapt up, but how, into the third Heaven. Verum ista divinitus exhibentur, longè aliter quam se habet usitatus rerum ordo, singulis creaturarum generibus attributus, saith Augustine. All these being extraordinary dispensations, no ordinary rules of practice are not to be made ordinary Precedents, especially in cases of Religion and Piety, or of such humane exigences as require quick dispatch, and certain assurance for deliverance: 
Specially since we have a surer, and speedie● way of dispatch, with 〈◊〉 them.  Can I expect through the Means, Mediation, or Intercession of any Saint, or all the Saints of Paradise, any speedier admittance than I can have from God himself; any readier dispatch than he immediately affordeth? Call upon me, and I will hear. Invitation out of Mercy; promise of Grace are not so fare a sunder in the text of David: and as instantly consequent in God's performance. The word is no sooner out of thy mouth. Hear me, O Lord: but it is in the Ears of the Lord of Hosts, and instantly findeth grace and acceptance; For straight he cometh in with. I will hear and deliver thee. Abraham's servant, a good servant of such a Master, in that great employment, To take a Wife for Isaac, Gen. 24. Hath recourse unto the God of his Master Abraham. Immediate address, without aid or assistance▪ and what success? such as none could expect or desire better. For vers. 15. Before he had left speaking, behold Rebekah came out. The party provided for him: So God instantly heard his prayer, and granted his request. No man, I suppose, would desire better Audience. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. If thou have any suit to, 
To. ●. pag. 195.  or business with man, thou first enquirest if he be at leisure? to be spoken with? He that attendeth on him, answereth my Master is a sleep, he cannot be spoken with. But no such matter if thou address thee unto God. Go to him and Call, he instantly answereth and giveth ear: No business hindereth: No Mediator needeth: No servant or attendant to keep thee out. But say, Lord have mercy upon me, and eftsoons behold, God is at hand. While yet the Word is in thy mouth, he returneth answer, Lo here am I. Thy Petition is dispatched before thy suit be fully ended. No long suit: No great charge: not much trouble or attendance in Call, and I will hear. It is not man, thou hast recourse unto, that so thou shouldest follow him fare, or repair unto the place of his abode. God is always near, ever at hand. Thus to purpose. And again, in the case of the woman of Tyre. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 
Pag. 190.  She doth not address herself to Peter: she supplicateth not unto john: she doth not entreat james to help her: but passeth through the midst of them to Christ. I need no Mediator quoth she: but with true repentance my companion, I come personally unto the spring head. He came down from Heaven: he took flesh for this cause, that even I, might come and speak unto him. Therefore in conclusion, to their persuasions, that direct, and invite me otherwise then to call upon Me. Without more ado I answer with Nazianzene in another case, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: Let us stand as we do: all things considered, we have no reason to change for the worse. Hold that fast which we have received from our Elders, the ancient Christians of the purest times: the eldest Tradition of the Church: who never were acquainted with such diversions from the right and direct way. 
And their contrary Doctrine is both a novelty, and foolery.  It is a novelty I aver, and will avow to use such Intercession. Not heard of for practise ordinary in the Church for above five hundred years after Christ. It is foolery to go so about the bush, when without much ado, the bird may be had. It cannot be proved by any Roman Catholic nor all the Roman Catholics living, that Saints departed, of what Rank, Condition, Quality, Mansion or Degree soever, can understand ordinarily our Needs, Necessities, Votes, Desires, or Petitions, and therefore, as unfit for this employment, are not ordinarily to be Called upon, for Help, Assistance, or Relief. Origens' conclusion will hold and shall be defended and made good against all Opponents. Vtrum sancti qui cum Christo sunt, aguni aliquid & laborant pro nobis, in particular, upon particulars, est inter mysteria occulta Dej: And therefore not so rashly to be resolved affirmatively. 
Without any ground.  It is no point of Faith fundamental, or secundary: never so resolved for many ages in the eldest times of the Church: no practice of the faithful ancient, imposed, or universal: no tradition for it, much less Scripture: no ground in reason, or in Divinity. It is but folly in time of necessity to rely upon their mediation: The best course is, The used course hath been ever: the surest way is ever without their mediation, to have immediate address unto God in Christ. If any Papist living, or all the Papists living, can justify the practice of their Church herein, against the Doctrine and practice of the Church of England, I will subscribe unto all Popery.  
And yet we are wronged, 
And yet we deny no honour to the blessed Saints.  and deeply calumniated by foul mouthed detractors, as injurious unto God in the dishonour of his Saints, because we give them not the honour which is not due unto them, whereof they are not any way capable. Those blessed ones with God, that have fought a good fight; kept the Faith, finished their course: as they are now regnant in glory, with their Redeemer; so are they honourable amongst the Righteous upon Earth for ever. They have left a name behind them: so that their praise shall be remembered for evermore. The Lord hath gotten great glory by them, and therefore with renown he will reward them. No Christian will deny, or envy them their due: And for myself, I say with Nazianzene, or Basil I am sure. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. It doth me good at heart to see them honoured, I admire, reverence, adore them in their kind; their Triumphs and Trophies over Death and Hell my Tongue and Pen shall most willingly set out to life, with all the poor skill and faculty I have. Thrice happy Reapers of that mighty Booz, that did so worthily in Ephrata, and were so famous in Bethleem: that sowed in tears, when you went out weeping, but reap now the fruit of your labours in joy, you have left some glean for Ruth to gather after you, to the comfort and cherishing of her poor widow mother. Thrice happy guests of that royal Ahashuerosh, admitted to eat at his Table in his Palace, that Non-such of God, to drink the sweet wine of felicity in the cups of immortality, clad in the wedding garments of immutability: Blessed Souls and immaculate, it hath been your turns already, being purged with the Oil of Purification, and perfumed with the Odours of the Lamb's innocency, to go into the Chamber of that great King, and to be married unto him by immortality. Spies of that Land of promise, which indeed floweth with milk and honey, to whom that Captain of the Armies of the Lord of Hosts, the joshua in truth, and not in type, hath given rest from all enemies round about. Fair Flocks of that great Shepherd of Israel, that feed upon the Mountains of Eternity, and repose yourselves in Pastures, by the waters of life, we know you afford us your best wishes and desires: refresh us with the crumbs of your delicacies there, compassionate our yet Pilgrim estate, that lie among Lions, feed with the Wolf, and go to water with the Dragons. We cannot forget, we must not be unmindful of your worth, john, Peter, Paul, james, Stephen, Luke, Andrew Tecla, those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Sacrifices for Christ, 
Pag. 76.  as Nazianzene calleth them, such as with them, after them, and before them, Pro veritate periculis se obiecerunt: cum igni, ferro, belluis, tyrannis, malis praesentibus et denunciatis, alacri animo, velut in alienis corporibus non suis, imò, ut expertes corporum, dimicarunt. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. These you honour not, but disgrace what you may: so he expostulateth with, and chargeth julian that Renegado: but he never intended so to honour them, as Honorificentiam regis deferre Comiti, 
But that which is only due unto their Maker.  to give them the honour due unto their Maker. This I must not, I cannot, I dare not presume to do: For how can I answer it unto my Master, who hath denounced, My honour shall no man have, nor will I part stakes with any other? Nay, how unto those Grandees themselves, the Saints? so jealous of their Redeemers honour, that before all they first would plead against me, and cast me upon indictment of high Treason: so fare are they from admitting, or patronising mine excess. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, I confess with Origen; they deserve to be honoured, 
Contra Cells 1.  but not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, not to be worshipped or adored: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The honour they expect, the most and greatest we can do unto them, saith Chrysostome, 
To. 5. pa. 625.  is to go after them in their worth, and to be followers of their good deservings. Nazianzene enlargeth himself much upon this point, and concludeth: Hoc honorum genere magis oblectatur Cyprianus, 
O●at. 18.  quam cunctis alijs in unum congestis. Haec et cum apud Homines versaretur, vita moribusque praesiabat: et absens per nostram vocem omnibus in mandatis dat, quam obsecro ne contemnatis, si tamen aut illius in dolorum acerbitatibus tolerantiae, ac certaminum pro virtutis defensione susceptorum, aut etiam mei, qui hac legatione fungor apud vos ulla habetur ratio. Nazianzene did not in this, nor do we with him, and all antiquity, undervalue their worth, or esteem lightly of their achievements. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Men, saith Chrysostome, that fear GOD, 
●o. 5. pa. 721.  when they refuse to adore the Creature, do not vilify or despise the Creature, but rather give honour to the Creator. The godly man hateth not the Sun, because with Pagan Infidels he adoreth not the light thereof, but giveth that respect thereto which is due. Thus we answer in this point of Invocation, and make our Apology against detraction, for dishonouring or disparaging Gods holy Saints. That GOD, glorious in them now and ever, grant us of his grace, through their Intercession for his Church in Christ, that we may so pass through things temporal, that finally we lose not things eternal: but together with all the Saints departed, may rise again to immortal Life.  
FINIS.   

Errata.  
Pag. 2. lin. 29. mere, p. 3. l. 3. love, l. 17. miserentur, p. 8. l. 1. alongè, p. 14- l 2 reserved, p. 20 l. 7. nor man, p. 26.14. which doth, l. 27, cas●e dis. patch, p. 35.27, know not what, p. 37.19. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: p. 107. l. 11, ius petes, p. 110. l. pen. Non enim, p. 136. l. 14, possunt, p. 145. l. 8. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, p 146. l. 5. unto, p. 178, l. 8 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, l. 23. for us to, p. 182. l. 13, to a Christian Virgin ber, l. 28. and of, p. 189. l. 15. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, l. 18. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, p. 210. l. 19 Exercitui.  
END