¶ The confutation of Tyndales answer made by sir Thomas More knight lord chancellor of England.  
¶ Prentyd at London By wyllyam Rastell. 1532 CUM PRIV 〈…〉   

¶ The preface to the christian reader.  
OUr lord send us now some years as plenteous of good corn, as we have had some years of late plenteous of evil books. For they have grown so fast and sprungen up so thykke, full of pestilent errors and pernyciouse he resyes, that they have enfected and killed I fear me more silly simple souls, them the famine of the dear years have destroyed bodies. And surely no little cause there is to dread, that the great abundance and plenty of the tone, is no little cause and occasion of the great dearth and scarcity of the t'other. For sith that our lord of his especial providence, useth temporally to punish the hole people for the sins of some part, to compel the good folk to forbear & abhor the naughty, whereby they may bring them to amendment and avoid themself the contagyon of their company: wisdom were it for us to perceive, the like as folk begin now to delight in feeding their souls of the venomous caryn of those poisoned heresies, of which may well be verified the words of holy writ: 
4. Regum. 4.  death is in the pot/ our lord likewise againward to revenge it withal, beginneth to withdraw his gracious hand from the fruits of the earth, minishing the fertylyte both in corn and cattles, and bringing all in dearth much more than men can remedy or fully find out the cause. And yet bysyde this somewhere he sendeth war, sickness, and mortality/ to punish in the flesh that odious and hateful sin of the soul, that spoileth the fruit from all manner of virtues, I mean unbelief, false faith and infidelity, and to tell you all at ones in plain english heresy. And I say that god now bygynneth. For I fear me surely that except folk begin to reform that fault the sooner/ god shall not fail in such wise to go forward, that we shall well perceive and feel by thincrease of our grief, that all this gear hitherto is but a beginning yet. The prophet Hely as it is written in the third book of kings, for the infidelity and idolatry that then was used in Israel, by his hearty prayer made unto god, kept that whole country from rain by the space of iii years and a half/ not of evil will or malice, but of devotion and pity/ by the pain & pinching of the bodies, to compel men to remember their souls, which else were in apparel of perishing by false idolatry.  
Now all be it that these bold shameless heretics, have of long while neither letted nor ceaced, falsely to insymulate and accuse the church of god/ calling all good christian people idolaters for honouring of saints and reverent behaviour used at their images: yet that have they done so far against their own conscience (by which themself well wot that the church useth to saints and images none honour but ordinate/ not honouring images but for the saints sake, nor saints but for the sake of god/ & neither image as saint, nor saint as god) & this knoweth I say Tyndale himself so well, and thereby so far hath railed against his own conscience/ that now at the last in his answer to my book, he retreateth so far bakke, that he revoketh almost all that ever he said before/ & is fain now to grant that christian men may have images, & kneel before them to/ as ye shall hereafter see when we shall come to the place.  
But we on the other side say plainly unto them, that the things wherewith they corrupt the world, are of infidelity and faithless idolatry, the very most cursed kind. The chief evil in an idol was, that it bore the name of god, either it self or the devil that it represented/ and being so reputed and wurshyped for god, rob the reverence and devout honour fro god.  
Now when Tyndale calleth his heresies by the name of faith, and maketh men serve the devil while they ween to serve god: what abominable idolatry is this?  
If it be idolatry to put trust in the devil, & serve the devil with faith: it is worse than idolatry to make men ween they serve god with faith while they despite him with a false belief.  
And if it be very infidelity to do as the Turks do, bid men believe in Machometes koran: it is more infidelity to do as Tyndale hath done, purposely miss translate Crystes holy gospel, to set forth heresies as evil as the Alchorane.  
And if it be idolatry to do as the paynens did, make an idol god: it must needs be much worse idolatry to do as these heretics do, that call god the cause of all evil, and thereby make god not a vain idol but a very devil.  
And what can be worse kind of infydelyte● then to make books of heresies, and call them the right faith?  
And what more abominable infidelity then to abuse the scripture of god to the colour of their false bylyef●?  
And what can be a worse belief, then to believe that the sacraments that god hath ordained by his holy spirit be but inventions of man, or as Tyndale saith of confession, but invention of the devil?  
And what can be worse belief then to believe that god's word is not to be believed, but if it be put in writing?  
Or what can be a worse belief, then to believe the mennis good works be they never so well done, be yet nothing worth, nor the man never the better for them, nor no reward for them coming toward man in heaven?  
Or what can be a worse belief them to believe that a man doth wrong to pray for his father's soul?  
Or what can be a worse belief, then to believe that a man may as sleyghtely regard whitsun sonday● as hokke monday/ and as boldly eat flesh on good friday, as on shrove tuysdaye?  
And what can be a worse belief, then to believe that none other sin can damn a man, but only lack of belief?  
And if it be idolatry to do as the paynims do, give worship unto an idol: how much is it worse than idolatry to do as Tyndale doth, forbed us to give worship to the very body and blessed blood of god in the holy sacrament of the altar?  
These pestilent infydelytees, and these abominable kinds of idolatries/ far exceeds and pass, and incomparbly more offend the majesty of our lord god, than all the secreting up of Beel, and Baal, and Beelzebub, and all the devils in hell. wherefore like as in other places where these heresies have taken deeper rote, & been more spread abroad/ god hath taken more deep and sore vengeance, not only by dearth and death but also by battle and sword: so is it to be feared that for the receipt of these pestilent books, our lord sendeth us some lack of corn and cattle for a beginning/ and will not fail but if our fault be mended to send us as sore punishment as he hath sent all ready, into such other places as would not be by like warning mended/ according as he saith in the xxvi chapter of Leviticus, where he speaketh in this wise: If ye will not give ear unto me, nor fulfil all my commandments but set my laws at nought, despise my judgements, and leave those things undone that are by me ordained, and break my pact and covenant: then will I agaynwarde do these things following unto you. I will hastily visit you with penury and brenning heat or fever, which shall sore vex and grieve your eyes, and consume you even to the death. Over this ye shall sow your seed in vain/ for your enemies shall devour it. I shall also set my face against you, and ye shall fall before your adversaries, and be made subjects unto them that hate you. ye shall f●e where no man chaseth you. And if ye will not yet for all this obey me: I shall for your sins add & put to these plagues sevenfold more/ and I shall tread down the pride of your stobernes and so forth.  
And who doth more properly fall in the danger of this commination and threat, than they that despise Crystes sacraments, which are his holy ordinances, and a great part of Cristes' new law and testament. And who shall less set by his commandments/ than they that upon the boldness of only faith, set all good works at nought, & little force the danger of their evil deeds, upon the boldness that a bare faith and sleight repentance without shrift or penance sufficeth/ and that no vow made to god can bind a man to live chaste, nor let a monk fro marriage/ all which things with many pestilent errors beside, these abominable books of Tyndale and his fellows teach us.  
Of these books of heresies there be so many made with in these few years, what by Luther himself and by his fellows, and afterward by the new sects sprungen out of his, which like the children of vippara would now gnaw out their mother's belly: that the bare names of those books were almost enough to make a book/ & of every sort of those books be some brought into this realm and kept in huker muker, by some shrewd masters that keep them for no good.  
Beside the books of latin, french, and douch, in which there are of these evil sects an innumerable sort: there are made in the english tongue, first Tyndales new testament father of them all by reason of his false translating. And after that the five books of Moses translated by the same man/ we need not doubt in what manner, when we know by what man and for what purpose.  
Then have ye his introduceyon into saint Paul's pistle, with which he introduceth and bringeth his readers in to a false understanding of saint Poule/ making them among many other heresies believe, that saint Poule were in the mind that only faith were always sufficient for salvation, and the men's good works were nothing worth, nor could no thank deserve nor no reward in heaven, though they were wrought in grace. And these things teacheth Tyndale as the mind of saint Poule/ where saint Poule sayeth himself that they which so miss conster him to the depraving of men's good works, be well worthy damnation.  
Then have we by Tyndale the wicked mammona/ by which many a man hath been bygyled and brought into many wicked heresies, which thing (saving that the devil is ready to put out men's yien that are content willingly to wax blind) were else in good faith to me no little wonder/ for never was there made a more foolish frantic book.  
Then have we Tindales book of obedience/ whereby we be taught to dysobaye the doctrine of Crystes catholic church, and set his holy sacraments at nought.  
Then have we fro Tyndale the first pistle of saint Iohn in such wise exponed, that I dare say that blessed apostle rather than his holy words were in such a sense believed of all christian people, had liefer his pistle had never been put in writing.  
Then have we the supplication of beggars, a piteous beggarly book, wherein he would have all the souls in purgatory beg all about for nought.  
Then have we from George jaye otherwise called clerk, a goodly godly pistle/ wherein he teacheth diverse other heresies, but specially that men's vows and promises made of chastity, be not lawful nor can bind no man in conscience, but he may wed when he will.  
And this man considering that when a man teacheth one thing and doth himself another, the people set the less by his preaching: determined therefore with himself that he would of his preaching, she● himself ensample. And therefore being prest●, he hath ●ygyled a woman and wedded her/ the poor woman I ween unware that he is pressed. How be it if it be not done all ready/ it is well likely now that but if god be her special guide, he shall by laysore work her and win her to his own heresy.  
Then have ye an exposition also upon the vii chapter of saint Paul's pistle to the Corinthyes/ by which exposition in likewise priests, freres, monks, & nouns be taught that evangelical liberty, that they may run out a caterwawing, and so wow and wed and lawfully live in lechery.  
That work hath no name of the maker but some ween it was frere Roy/ which when he was fallen in heresy, than found it unlawful to live in chastity, and ran out of his order, and hath sins sought many a false unlyefull way to live by/ wherein he made so many changes, that as Bayfeld another heretic & late burned in smythfeld told unto me/ he made a meet end at last, and was burned in Portyngale.  
Th●n have we the examination of Thorpe put forth as it is said by George Constantine (by whom there hath been I wot well of that sort great plenty sent into this realm) In that book the heretic that made it as a communication between the bishop and his chapellayns and himself/ maketh all the pattyes speak as himself liketh/ & layeth nothing spoken against his heresies, but such as himself would seem solemnly to soil. whose book when any good c●ysten man readeth, that hath either learning or any natural wit/ shall not only be well able to perceive him for a foolish heretic, & his arguments easy to answer/ but shall also see that he showeth himself a false liar in his rehearsal of the matter/ wherein he maketh the t'other part sometime speak for his commodity, such manner things as no man would have done that were not a very wild goose.  
Then have we jonas made ●ut by Tyndale/ a book that who so delight therein shall stand in apparel that jonas was never so swallowed up with the whale, as by the delight of that book a man's soul may be so swallowed up by the devil, that he shall never have the grace to get out again.  
Then have we by Tyndale also the answer to my dy●loge/ whereof I shall nothing n●w nedeto say, byc●●●● the confutation of that answer is the matter of my present boo●e.  
Then have we also the book of Fryth against purgatory/ therrors of which book I shall hereafter god willing declare you.  
Then have ye a book of Luther translated into english in the name of Bryghtwell, but as I am informed the book was translated by Fryth/ a book of such sort as Tyndale never made a more foolish, nor more full of false lies. And surely Firths prologue, if it be his as it is said/ is right sutely and a very meet cover for such a cup, as bringeth the people a draft of deadly poison.  
Then have we the practise of prelate's/ wherein Tyndale had went to have made a special show of his high worldly wit/ and that men should have seen therein that there were nothing done among princes, but that he was fully advertised of all the secrets/ and that so farforth, that he knew the privy practise made between the kings highness and the late lord cardinal, and the reverend father Cuthbert then bishop of London, and me/ that it was devised wilily, that the cardinal should leave the chauncellourshyppe to me and the byshopryche of Durhm to my said lord of London for a while, till he list himself to take them both again. was not this a wily drift trow you? which, while every man well seeth there was no man so mad to tell Tyndale, no man doubteth, but that Tyndale devised it of his own imagination/ and than needeth no man to doubt what manner a brain Tyndale hath, that dreameth such frantic drifts.  
Then have we now come forth the book of frere Barns sometime doctor in Camdrydge/ which was for heresy before this time abjured, and is at this day comen to the realm by safe conduct, which at his humble suit the kings highness of his blessed disposition condescended to grant him/ to th'end that if there might yet any spark of grace be founden in him, it might be kept, kindled, and increased, rather than the man to be cast away. which manner of christian zeal and princely benignity his grace had before used, both to richard Bayfeld and George Constantine, which came over hither without safe conduct, upon the only trust of his gracious forgiveness, and had it. And thereupon to by and by both twain deceyptefully did abuse his goodness, & brought in again more of Tyndales books and false heresies a fresh/ whereof as god hath of his justice synnies requytte the tone, so moat his mercy by grace amend the t'other.  
But to speak of frere Barns book, surely of all their books that yet came abroad in english (of all which was never one wise nor good) was never none yet so bad, so foolish, nor so false as his, as it hath sins his coming been plainly proved in his face/ and that in such wise, that when the books that he citeth and allegeth in his book were brought forth before him, and his ignorance showed him himself did in diverse things confess his ouersyghte● and clearly knowledged that he had myssetaken and wrong understanden the places. And was in such wise finally confounded with shame/ that he was in a mamering whither he would return again over the see, or tarry still here and renounce his heresies again, and turn again to Crystes catholic church. And therefore he desired that he might have a learned man then present assigned unto him, for the further instruction of his conscience, which his request was granted him, and what will ferther come thereon god knoweth. If god give him the grace to amend, every good man will be glad thereof. If he have so far gone against god's truth, & thereby grieved god in such wise, that god have all ready given him over for ever/ or else that though god offer his grace again the malice of the man's will withstand it yet and reject it: it is not then to be doubted, but god will find a time for him well enough to show his justice on him, as he hath done upon such other/ & namely of late in Swycherland upon zuinglius, which was the first that brought Barns heresy thither, concerning the sacrament of the altar. But as for hence he shall I am sure have leave to depart safe, according to the kings safe conduct. And yet hath he so demeaned himself sins his coming hither/ that he hath clearly broken & forfeited his safe conduct, and lawfully might be burned for his heresies, if we would lay his heresies and his demeanour sith his coming hither both twain unto his charge. But let him go this ones, for god shall find his time full well.  
Then have we ferther yet beside Barns book, the a b c for children. And because there is no grace therein/ left we should lack prayers, we have the primer, and the ploughman's prayer, and a book of other small devotions, and then the hole psalter to. After the psalter children were wont to go to their Donat & their Accydence/ but now they go straight to scripture. And thereto have we as a Donat the book of the pathwaye to scripture/ and for an Accidence because we should be good scholars shortly and be soon sped, we have the whole sum of scripture in a little book/ so that after these books well learned, we be meet for Tyndales pentateukes, and Tyndales testament, and all the other high he resyes that he, and jay, and Fryth, and frere Barns teach in all their books bysyde/ of all which heresies the seed is sown, and pretyly sprungen up in these little books before. For the primer and Psalter prayers & all/ were translated and made in this mane●, by none other but heretics.  
The Psalter was translated by George jay the preste● that is wedded now/ and I here say the primer to wherein the seven psalms be set in without the lateny, lest folk should pray to saints. And the Dirige is lest out clean/ left a man might hap to pray thereon for his father's soul.  
In their calendar before their devout prayers, they have set us a new saint/ sir Thomas Hitton the heretic that was burned in kent, of whom I shall tell you more after. Him have they set in on saint Mathy is even, be the name of saint Thomas the martyr.  
A long work would it be to rehearse you all their books, for there be yet more than I know. Against all which the kings high wisdom polytyquely provided, in that his highness by his proclamations forbade any manner english books prented byionde the see to be brought into this realm, or any to be sold prented● within this realm, but if the name of the prenter and his dwelling place were set upon the book.  
But yet so is it as I said before, that of these ungracious books full of pestilent poisoned heresies, that have in other realms all ready killed by schisms and war many thousand bodies, and by sinful errors, & abominable heresies many more thousand souls: have now a few malicious mischievous persons brought into this realm/ and labour and enforce themself in all that ever they may, to corrupt and infect all good and virtuous people.  
Nor no man is there any where living more studious and busy to do himself good/ them those envious wretches be laborious and fervent to do all other men harm, in body, substance and soul.  
There be fled out of this realm for heresy a few ungracious folk/ what manner folk their writing and their living showeth. For the captains be priests, monks, and freres that neither say mass nor matins, nor never come at chirche/ taking still of faith and full of false heresies, would seem Crystes apostles & play the devils dysours/ speaking much of the spirit with no more devotion than dogs/ diverse of them, priests, monks, and freres, not let to wed harlots and then call them wives. And when they have once vyleyned the sacrament of matirmony/ then would they make us violate the sacrament of the altar to, telling us as Tyndale doth, that it is sin to do the blessed body of christ in that sacrament any honour or reverence, but only take it for a token.  
Now when their chief captains be such/ we shall not need to doubt of what sort we shall reckon the remanant. These fellows that nought had here, and therefore nought carried hence, nor nothing finding there to live upon/ be yet sustained and maintained with money sent them by some evil disposed persons out of this realm thither/ and that for none other intent but to make them sit & seek out heresies, and speedily send them hither.  
which books all be it that they neither can be there prented without great cost, nor here sold without great adventure & apparel: yet cease they not with money sent from hence, to prente them there & send them hither by the whole fats full at one's/ and in some places looking for no lucre, cast them abroad by night/ so great a pestilent pleasure have some devilish people caught, with the labour, travail, cost, charge varell, harm, and hurt of themself, to seek the d●●●●●cci●n of other. As the devil hath ●●edely delight to bygyle good people, and bring their souls into everlasting torment without any manner winning, and not without final increase of his own eternal pain: so do these heretics the devils disciples bysette their whole pleasure and study to their own final damnation, in the training of simple souls to hell by their devilish here●yes.  
Much they cry out against the clergy/ saying that the priests love to reign in men's conscience. But they themself show that when they have made the devil reign in a man's conscience, so far forth that he hath no conscience to eat flesh on good friday, nor to cast Crystes cross in the ●anell, nor to throw his blessed body out of the pyx: then after that likewise as the false preachers that were jews, laboured to have all christian people circumcised, to th'intent that as saint Poule saith they might glory in their flesh/ so be these arch heretics very glad & great glory they take when they may here that any man is brought to burning thorough their books. Then they boast that they have done a great mastery, and say they have made a martyr/ when their poisoned books have killed the christian man both in body and soul.  
Thus rejoiced Tyndale in the death Hytton/ of whose burning he boasteth in his answer to my dialogue, where he writeth thereof, that where I said that I had never founden nor herd of any of them, but that he would forswear to save his life, I had herd he sayeth of sir Thomas Hytton, whom the bishops of Rochester and Canterbury s●ew at maydstone.  
Of this man they so highly rejoice/ that they have as I said set his name in the calendar before a book of their english prayers, by the name of saint Thomas the martyr, in the vigyle of the blessed apostle saint Mathye, the xxiii. day of February/ and have put out for him the holy doctor and glorious martyr saint Polycarpus, the blessed bishop and the disciple of saint Iohn thevangelist/ for that was his day in deed, and so is it in some calendars marked.  
Now to th'intent that ye may somwhatses what good christian faith sir Thomas Hytton was of, this new saint of Tyndales canonisation, in whose burning Tyndale so gaily glorieth, and which hath his ho●y day so now appointed to him, that saint Po●●●arpus must give him place in the calendar: I shall some what show you what wholesome heresies this holy martyr held.  
first ye shall understand that he was a pressed/ and falling to Luther's sect, and after that to the sect of frere Huskyn, and zwynglius, caste of matins and mass and all divine service/ and so became an apostle sent to an fro between our english heretics beyond the see, and such as were here at home.  
Now happened it so that after he had visited here his holy congregations, in divers corners and luskes lanes, and comforted them in the lord to stand stiff with the devil in their errors and heresies/ as he was going bakke again at graves end, god considering the great labour that he had taken all ready, and determining to bring his business to his well deserved end/ gave him suddenly such a favour and so great a grace in the visage, that every man that beheld him took him for a thief. For where as there had been certain linen clothes pylfred away that were hanging on an hedge, and sir Thomas Hytton was walking not far of suspycyously in the meditation of his heresies: the people dowting that the beggarly knave had stolen the clouts, fell in question with him and searched him/ and so found they certain letters secretly conveyed in his cote, written from evangelical brethren here, unto the evangelical heretics beyond the see. And upon those letters founden/ he was with his letters brought before the most reverend father in god the archbishop of Canterbury/ and afterward as well by his lordship as by the reverend father the bishop of Rochester examined, & after for his abominable heresies delivered to the secular hands and burned.  
In his examination he refused to be sworn to say troth/ affirming that neither bishop nor 〈◊〉 had authority to compel him to swear. which point all though it be a false heresy/ yet is it likely that he refused the oath, rather of frowardness then of any respect that he had either in keeping or breaking. For never could I find heretic yet, that any conscience had in any oath. And of troth Tindale in his answer to my dialogue, teacheth them that they may break their oath and be forsworn without any scruple at all.  
His father and his mother he would not be acknown of what they were/ they were some so good folk of likelihood, that he could not abide the glory●  
He would not be a known that himself was pressed, but said that he had by the space of ix years been beyond the see, and there lived by the joiners craft. How be it he said that he had allway as his leisure would give him leave, and as he could find oportunyte in places where he came, taught the gospel of god after his own mind and his own opinion, not forcing of the determination of the church/ & said that he intended to his power so to perceverstyll.  
Of his teaching these things were part. first as for baptism, he agreed it for a sacrament necessary to salvation/ how be it every lay person he said might as well baptize as a pressed, were the child in necessity or not/ and that the form of baptizing used in the church were much better if it were spoken in english.  
Of matrimony whither it were a sacrament or not he said he wist near. But he said yet that it was a thing necessary and of christian people to be observed and kept. How be it as for the solemnisation of marriage at church he agreed it for good● but said it needed not. The man meant by likelihood that it was good enough to wed upon a cusshyon when the dogs be a bed, as their priests wed I ween where their persons be known. For else they let not to wed openly at church, and take the hole parish for witnesses of their bestely bichery.  
The extreme unction or aneling and confirmation/ he said be no sacraments of the church, nor be nothing necessary to the soul.  
The sacrament of order he said is no sacrament of the church, nor was never ordained by god in the new testament, but only by man.  
The mass he said should never be said. For he said that to say mass after the manner of the church, is rather sin than virtue.  
As for confession made to a pressed, he said nothing profiteth the soul/ nor penance enjoined of the pressed unto the penitent confessed, is nothing necessary.  
Purgatory he denied/ ●ayed also that neither prayer nor fasting for the soul's departed, can do them any good.  
To vow and enter into any religion approved by the law, he said availeth not/ but he said that all that enter into religion sin in so doing.  
He held also that no man hath any free will after that he hath once sinned.  
He held that to say any divine service after the ordinance of the church, availeth nothing/ and that all divine service may be left unsaid without any sin.  
He held that all the images of christ and his saints, should be thrown out of the church.  
He held also that what so ever the 〈◊〉 or the general consayle make, beside that that is expressly commanded in scripture/ every man may lawfully break it without any manner sin at all mortal or venial either.  
He held also that it is not lawful neither for the king of England, nor for any other christen prince/ to make any law or statute for the punishment of any theft or any other crime, by which law any man should suffer death. For he said that all such laws be contrary to the gospel, which will no man to die.  
As touching the blessed sacrament of the altar, he said it is a necessary sacrament/ but he held that after the consecration, there was none other thing therein, but only that very substance of material breed & wine/ and so he said he firmly believed, and that he would hold that opinion to the death.  
Finally holding all these abominable heresies, with yet diverse other more of like sewte & sort/ he said that he was very certain and sure, that he had the grace of god with him, and that the holy ghost was within him.  
And so was he after much favour showed him, & much labour charitably taken for the saving of him/ delivered in conclusion for his obstinacy to the seculare hands, and burned up in his false faith and heresies, whereof he learned the great part of Tyndales holy books/ and now the spirit of error and dying, hath taken his wretched soul with him straight from the short fire to the fire everlasting.  
And this is ●o sir Thymas Hytton the dyvyls' stinking martyr/ of whose burning Tyndale maketh boast. wherefore sith Tyndale alloweth his cause/ he must needs defend his articles. And now wot I ●ell that some of those articles Tyndale hath himself given over at last for shame/ as the article against images, and the article against the liberty of man's fire will/ wherein he beareth me in hand in his answer to my dialogue, that I bylye Luther. But when I shall come to the place/ I shall let you see Luther's own words in that point so plain, that ye shall not marvel though Tyndale were ashamed of his master. And yet shall ye marvel that Tyndale was so shameless to deny the thing, which ye shall see so plainly proved.  
But ye see that of this holy martyr/ Tyndale hath not so great cause to glory, but that he may scrape out his name again out of the calendar, and restore the blessed bishop saint Policarpus again into his place.  
Then have ye had here burned sins at London of late richard Bayfelde, late a monk and a pressed, which fell to heresy and was abjured/ and after that like a dog returning to his vomit, and being fled over the see, and sending from thence Tyndales heresies hither with many mischievous sorts of books: had yet the kings gracious forgiveness/ & as it was after proved both by other men's and his own confession to, was occupied about two things at ones, that is to wit both in sewing for remission and pardon of his offence for bringing in those books, & therewith also in selling them here still secretly, & sending over for more, with which at last he was taken. And to rehearse his heresies needeth little/ the books that he brought well showeth them, and his holy life well declareth them/ when● being both a pressed and a monk, he went about two wives, one in Brabande, another in England. what he meant I can not make you sure, whither he would be sure of the tone if the other should hap refuse hy●/ or that he would have them both, the tone here, the t'other there/ or else both in one place, the tone because he was pressed, the t'other because he was monk.  
Of Bayfeldes burning hath Tyndale no great cause to glory. For though Tyndales books brought him to burning/ yet was he not so constant in his evangelical doctrine, but that after that he was taken, all the while that he was not in utter despair of pardon/ he was well content to have forsworn it again, and letted not to utter his evangelical brethren both it England and else where, causing some of them to be taken/ as George Constantyne ere he escaped, was ready to have in word at the lest wise abjured all that holy doctrine/ what his heart was god and he know, & peradventure the devil to if he intended otherwise. But surely there was intended toward him somewhat more good, than his dealing had before deserved. And so much the more favour was there minded him, in that he seemed very penitent of his miss using of himself, in falling to Tyndales heresies again. For which he knowledged himself worthy to be hanged, that he had so falsely abused the kings gracious remission and pardon given him before/ and had for all that in the while both bought and sold of those heretical books, and secretly set forth those heresies, whereof he showed himself so repentant, that he uttered and disclosed divers of his companions, of whom there are some abjured synnies, and that he wist well were abjured before, namely richard Necton which was by Constantine'S detection take and committed to Newgate/ where except he hap to die before in prison, he standeth in great paryll to be ere it be long, for his falling again to Tindales heresies burned. And thus it seemed by the manner of George Constantyne, while he was here in prison/ that he so sore did forthink his errors and heresies, and so perceived the pestilent poison of them/ that he thought it better that such as were infect therewith might be by the mean of his detection amended, and with the loss of his body the soul cured, than both twain cast away/ or if the man were peradventure of hard heart and malicious mind incurable, he thought it were then better to send him to the devil alone, then let him live and draw many other with him.  
This good mind it seemeth that Constantyne had then and therefore was there good hope of his amendment. And peradventure the man had amended and standen still in grace, if some evil consayle ●ad not comen at him/ of which there was left unsought no devilish invention or mean to send him/ in so much that one of the letters I fortuned to intercept myself written unto him, by one Iohn Byrte otherwise calling himself Adryane, otherwise Iohn bokebynder, & yet otherwise now I can not tell you what.  
Of troth George constantyne after he had confessed unto a faithful servant of mine to be declared to me, that Necton had of his delivery many of those heretical books: he sent word forthwith to Nec●on, that he should send the books home to me● which if he did & that I might have yet seen sure tokens of amendment in the man/ Constantyne perceived well that he had been yet likely to have had favour showed him. But when that Necton had once made Byrte of his counsel/ they devised between them that Necton should not do so in no wise, affirming to Constantyne that it could not be done/ and happily it could not in deed, for peradventure they were all sold all ready. How be it Necton now sith he was taken said that his wife had burned them. But it is well known that Necton had himself and a man of his also, sold many such books of heresy, both in London & in othey shires sith his abjuration. But how so ever the matter was/ Byrte by his letter advised Constantyne if he might possible to call bakke his confession again/ wherein I think it good that ye here his very letter itself. Lo in these words he wrote.  
The grace and peace of our saviour jesus be with you good brother Constantyne. Sir as for the matter that ye would have brought to pass, will not be in no manner wise/ the person is not at home that should receive the stuff, and deliver it according to unto your mind. Therefore if ye have not spoken so far in the matter that it may be none preiudyall or hurt unto you: I would ye should go no ferther in the matter/ but even as a man armed with faith, go forth in your matter boldly and put them to their proves. As for one is none you know well by the law of god or man. If there be any thing that I can do/ send word and ye shall find me ready to my power even to death by god's grace, who I pray long to preserve you and comfort you in your trouble to the confusion of all tyrants.  
Lo here have ye heard an apostolical pistle, counselling the man to go bakke with the troth, and arm himself with faith, and make him strong to lie loud and forswear himself if need were/ for Byrt wist well I were not likely to leave and believe him at his bare word.  
Here will Byrt peradventure preach, and bring us in the midwives' of Egypt that saved the children of Israel from Pharaoh, for which god gave them new houses. wherein Byrt and I will not much dispute. For all be it that god hath given him no house ●et, nor it is not all one with a lie to save a young innocent babe, and with perjury to defend an old pestilent heretic/ and though saint austin saith that it is not lawful to lie for nothing: yet I tell not my tale to lay a lie so highly to any such men's charge as these folk be, whose hole sect is nothing else but lies/ but I rehearse you his letter because ye should see what truth there is in such folks words.  
How be it as for Constantyne as I said before, seemed in prison here very penitent, and utterly minded to forsake such heresies and heretics for ever. In proof whereof he not only detected as I said his own deeds & his fellows, but also studied and devised how those devilish books which himself and other of his fellows had brought and shipped, might come to the bys●hoppes hands to be burned. And therefore he showed me the shypmannes' name that had them, and the marks of the ferdellies, by which I have sins his escape received them. And it may be by god's grace, that though the man fled hence for fere of such harm as he wist he had well deserved/ & yet was nothing toward him, but peradventure more good than he was ware of: he is yet amended in his mind and hath in his heart forsaken all Tyndales heresies, and so I pray god it be/ for I would be sorry that ever Tyndale should glory and boast of his burning. How be it in the mean while, till it may well appear that he be surely turned to the catholic faith again, I will advise all good christian folk and specially the kings subjects, to forbear and estyew his company. For the english man which shall be founden to be famylyare with him there, before his conversion here known and proved, may thereby bring himself in suspicion of heresy, and happily here thereof at his returning hither.  
I here also that Tyndale highly rejoiceth in the burning of Tewkesbery/ but I can see no very great cause why but if he reckon it for a great glory that the man did abide still by the stake when he was fast bounden to it. For as for the heresies he would have abjured them again with all his heart, and have accursed Tyndale to, if all the might have saved his life. And so he gave counsel unto one jamies that was for heresy in prison with him. For as jamys hath sins confessed/ Tewkesbery said unto him, save you yourself and abjure. But as for me because I have abjured before, there is no remedy with me buth death. By which words if he had not been in despair of life/ it well appeareth he would with good will have once abjured, and ones perjured again. And yet at his examination he denied that ever he had holden any such opinions as he was abjured for/ notwithstanding that there were at his examination some persons present of much honesty and worship, two that had been present at his abjuration before/ to which also his own hand was subscribed. And afterward being ferther examined upon the same/ some he denied, & some he defended again. Among other things he said that he used to pray to saints, & that he believed them to be god's friends, and that their prayers were profitable to us and well done to pray to them. whereupon I said unto him myself that I was glad to see him in that point yet amended, and I showed him as the troth was in deed, that I amiss held the contrary, and that he had so great a trust in Tewkesbery, that I doubted not but when he should here that tewkesbery had revoked that point, he would revoke it to. As soon as Tewkesbery herd that, he went from it again by and by/ & that so far, that finally he would not agree that before the day of doom there were either any saint in heaven, or soul in purgatory, or in hell either. Nor the right faith in the sacrament of the altar would he not confess in no wise. For which things and divers other horrible heresy●s, he was delivered at last unto the secular hands and burned, as there was never wretch I ween better worthy.  
yet is there one thing notable, and well declaring what good and charitable mind the man died in. For● after that he was delivered unto the secular hands/ neither while he was in prison nor at the time of his death, would he by his will be acknown of any of his heresies unto any man that asked him any question, but covered and hid them by all the means he could make, & laboured to make every man ween, that he had never holden any such opinion. And by this dealing every man may see that he wrought not so much for his heresies, nor took them not in his own mind for such things as he so greatly forced whither they went forward or backward, as he would fain leave an opinion among the people that his judges had borne him wrong in hand, & condemned him for such heresies as he never held. And what conscience he had that died in that mind, there is no good man doubteth.  
Now was his examination not secret, but folk enough thereat both spiritual and temporal, and of either part right wourshypfull/ so that his malicious mind can in that point little take effect. And yet did the same jamies also confess afterward, that Tewkesbery had red unto him wyclyffes wykke● against the blessed sacrament. And over that was there founden about him by the sheriffs officers in the prison, a book of heresy of his own hand writing, that is to wit the book of Marten Luther, wherein he teacheth men under the name of christian liberty, to run in to the devils bo●dage. And in his house was founden Tyndales book of obedience, which he well allowed, and his wicked book also of the wicked mammona, saying at his examination, that all the heresies therein were good and christian faith/ being in deed, as full of false heresies, and as frantic as ever heretic made any sith christ was borne. And yet all this notwithstanding, when he was in the sheriffs ward, and at the time of his death/ he would not speak of his heresies any thing, nor say that he had held and would hold this point and that/ but handled himself as covertly as he could, to make the people ween that he had holden no manner opinion at all/ nor never had I think if Tyndales ungracious books had never come in his hand. For which the poor wretch lieth now in hell and crieth out on him/ and Tyndale if he do not amend in time, he is like to find him when they come together, an hot fyrebronde burning at his back, that all the water in the world will never be able to quench.  
Another is there also, whom his unhappy books have brought unto the fire, Tho. Bylney that was before abjured/ which was the man of whom without name I spoke so much in my dialogue/ which being convict by twenty witnesses and above, did yet stick still in his denial/ & said they were all sorsworens, and had utterly belied him.  
But god which is very troth, and bringeth at last alway the troth to light, would not suffer such obstinate untruth at length to pass unpunished/ but of his endless mercy brought his body to death, & gave him yet the grace to turn and save his soul. For so was it that after diverse sermons, which he had after his abjuration, and against the prohibition given him upon his abjuration, made in sundry secret corners, and some also openly, whereof the bishop yet because he heard of none heresy therein had forborn to lay the disobedience to his charge: he went unto Nor who, where he had enfected divers of the city before. And being there secretly kept by a certain space, had in the while resort unto an ancresse/ and there began secretly to sow his cockle, and brought unto her divers of Tyndales books, and was there taken in the doing, and the books after founden about another man that was convayenge them thence/ and these things who so heard the hole process came in such wise to pass, that he could nothing doubt but that it came to light by the very provision of god.  
when he came to examination, he waxed stiff and stubborn in his opinions. But yet was god so good and gracious lord unto him, that he was finally so fully converted unto christ and his true catholic faith that not only at the fire, as well in words as writing, but also many days before/ he had revoked, abhorred, and detested such heresies as he before had holden/ which notwithstanding there lacked not some that were very sorry for it/ of whom some said, and some wrote out of Norwych to London, that he had not revoked his heresies at all, but still had abiden by them. And such as were not ashamed thus to say and write, being afterward examined thereupon, saw the contrary so plainly proved in their faces, by such as at his execution stood by him, while he red his revocacyon him self/ that they had in conclusion nothing else to say● but that he red his revocation so softly, that they could not hear it. How be it they confessed that he looked upon a bill and red it/ but they said that they could not tell, whither it were the bill of his revocation or not. And yet rehearsed they themself certain things spoken by him to the people at the fire/ whereby they could not but perceive well that he revoked his errors, albe it that some of them watered his words with additions of their own, as it was well proved before them. They could not also deny but that forthwith upon his judgement and his degradation, he kneeled down before the bishops chancellor in the presence of all the people, and humbly bysought him of absolution from the sentence of excommunication/ and with his judgement held himself well content, and knowledged that he had well deserved to suffer the death, that he then wist he should.  
They could not say nay but that upon this his humble request and prayer/ he was there in presence of all the people assoiled, before that he was carried out of the court/ which themself well wist would never have been, but if he had revoked.  
yet was there another thing that they could not deny (For all be it they said they were not thereat, yet they had herd it in such wise, that as they said they believed it to be true) and that thing was such, as itself alone must needs make them sure that he had revoked his heresies.  
The thing was this. He laboured and made great instance certain days after his judgement/ that he might be suffered to receive the blessed body of christ in form of breed. wherein the chancellor made a while great stykking and difficulty/ to the intent that he would the better and more clearly perceive what devotion the man had there to. And finally perceiving him to be of a true perfit faith, and his desire to proceed of a fervent mind, it was agreed and granted. And thereupon was he houseled in so true perfit faith, & so great devotion/ that every good christian man hath great cause to rejoice therein. And when his confessor in the end of the mass, which Bylney full devowtely herd upon his knees, brought unto him the body of christ upon the paten of the chalice, with very good and godly exhortation used unto him, that except he were in heart as he was in word and outward semblance, he should else forbear to receive that blessed body/ sith he should then undoubtedly receive it on his own damnation: it would have gladded any good christian heart, to have herd his faithful christian answer/ as they report & testify that were at that time by.  
Moreover where as in the presence of that holy sacrament holden yet upon the paten in the priests hands/ Bylney before he received it said y● colecte, Domine Iesu Christ: when he came at these words, ecclesiae tuae pacem & concordiam, he divers times repeated those words with tunsyons & knock kings upon his breast/ and there unto god confessed and asked his mercy, that he had so grievously erred in the point, and so sore offended him in co●tempnynge his church. And no marvel was it, though he had a special remorse of that article. For the contempning of Crystes catholic known church, and the framing of a secret unknown church that he learned of Luther and Tyndale/ was the very point that brought him unto all his mischief, as the very foundation whereupon all other heresies are builded. And therefore as the goodness of god gave him grace to cast unto the devil all his other errors: so gave he him his special grace to have of that heresy that was and is the ground of all the remanant, most especial repentance and remorse/ whereby we may very well hope and trust that our lord (whose high goodness gave him such grace so fully to repent and revoke his heresies, that he with glad heart was content to suffer the fire for the punishment of his offence) hath of his infinite mercy taken and accepted that pain for so far as he will exact of the poor man's purgatory/ and setting the merits of his own painful passion thereunto, hath forthwith from the fire taken his blessed soul to heaven/ where he now prayeth incessantly for the repentance and amendment of all such as have been by his means while he lived, into any such errors induced or confirmed. And I firmly trust that God's grace that effect with that holy man's prayer will work/ and so I pray god it may.  
But thus ye see the Tyndale hath no great cause to glory of his martyrs/ when that their living is openly nought, their opinions such as himself will abhor, they ready to abjure again if it might save their life, their sects so dysperate that either they dare not at the fire set forth their opinions for shame, or else of malice do dissimule them, to bring the people in a false opinion of their judges, to ween that they judged wrong. And Bylney that had learning, and had been accustomed in moral virtues, was by god revoked from Tyndals' heresy ere he died/ and that of likelihood the rather, because god would not have all his good works lost.  
And yet glorieth Tindale ungraciously in their destruction/ r●kenynge that their painful death doth great worship to his books, which are of such sort that never were there worse nor more abominable written.  
And yet his books being such/ some folk there are that with such foolish favour and such blind affection read them, that their taste enfected with the fever of heresies/ they not only can not decern the thing that they read (which if they could they were in good way toward amendment) but are also dyscontent and angry with any man that would help them to perceive it/ and feign would they have them rather believed then answered.  
Of which sort some have asked what have I to do to meddle with the matter/ saying that being lay man, I should leave it to the clergy to write in/ and not having professed the study of holy scripture, I should leave the matter hole unto divines. Surely first as touching learning, if that these matters were very doubtful and things of great question, or had been so cunningly handled by Tyndale and his fellows, as they might seem thereby matters of great doubt and question: then would I peradventure let them alone myself, to be debated by men of more erudition and learning. But now the matters being so plain, evident, and clear/ and by the hole church of christ so clearly put out of question, that it is plain and open heresy erenestly to bring them in question: I never purpose being in my right mind and a true christian man, to give an heretic so much authority, as to ●eken myself unable in so plain points of the christian faith to answer him/ namely sith I have gone somewhat to school myself, and bestowed as many years in study, and under as cunning masters as some of them have/ and that I see not hitherto these matters handled in such wise by Tyndale, or the best of them bysyde that ever have written therein, but that a right mean learned man, or almost an unlearned woman having natural wit and being sure and fast in the true catholic faith/ were well able to answer them.  
For so help me god as I nothing find effectual among them all, but a shameless boldness and unreasonable railing, with scriptures wrested awry, and made to minister them matter unto their jesting, scoffing, and outrageous ribaldry/ not only against every estate here in earth, & that against them most that be most religious in living, but also against all the saints in heaven, and against the blessed body of christ in the holy sacrament of the altar. In which things they far as folk that trust in nothing else, but to weary all writers at last with endless and importune babbling, & to overwhelm the hole world with words.  
Now as for me, the cause is of my writing, not so much to debate and dispute these things with them, which (though I trust therein to give them no great place) many men may do much better yet than I/ as to give men warning what mischief is in their books, because many good simple folk believing that these men neither say nor mean so evil as they be borne in hand/ and longing therefore to read their books and see the thing themself, be first infect with some heresies that seem not at the first intolerable, ere ever they come at the greatest/ and then being before infect with the less, they fall at last to bear the greater, to which in the beginning they could never have abiden.  
Now if they will ask, is there no body to give them warning but I. yes there be that be meet there to, and there be that in deed do so/ and yet among other that part appertaineth to me. For I well know that the kings highness, which as he for his most faithful mind to god, no thing more effectually desireth then the maintenance of the true catholic faith/ whereof he is by his no more honourable than well deserved title defensor, so nothing more detesteth then these pestilent books that Tyndale and such other send in to the realm, to set forth here their abominable heresies withal: doth of his blessed disposition of all earthly things abhor the necessity to do punishment/ and for that cause hath not only by his most erudite famous books both in english and in latin, declared his most catholic purpose and intent/ but also by his open proclamations divers times iterate and renewed, and finally in his own most royal person in the star chamber most eloquently by his own mouth in great presence of his lords spiritual and temporal/ gave monition and warning to all the justices of peace of every quarter of his realm then assembled before his highness, to be by them in their countries to all his people declared/ and did prohibit and forbid upon great pain, the bringing in reading, and keeping of any of those pernicious poisoned books/ to the intent that every subject of his by the mean of such manifold effectual warning, with his gracious remission of their former offence in his commandment before broken, should from thence forth avoid and estyew the apparel and danger of punishment/ and not drive his highness of necessity, to the thing from which the mildness of his benign nature abhorreth.  
Now seeing the kings gracious purpose in this point: I reckon that being his unworthy chancellor, it appertaineth as I said unto my part and duty, to follow the ensample of his noble grace/ and after my poor wit and learning, with opening to his people the malice and poison of those pernicious books, to help as much as in me is, that his people abandoning the contagion of all such pestilent writing, may be far from infection/ and thereby from all such punishment as following thereupon, doth aftentymes rather serve to make other beware that are yet clear, then to cure and he'll well those that are all ready infected/ so hard is that carbuncle catching once a core, to be by any mean well and surely cured. How be it god so worketh, that sometime it is. Toward the help whereof/ or if it happily be incurable, then to the clean cutting out the part for infection of the remanant: am I by mine office in virtue of mine oath, and every office of justice thorough the realm for his rate, right especially bounden/ not in reason only and good congrewence, but also by plain ordynauns and statute.  
wherefore I reckon myself of duty deeply bounden, to show you good readers the apparel of these books/ whereof the makers have such mischievous mind, that they boast and glory when their ungracious writing bringeth any man to death. And yet make they semblauns as though they were sorry for it. And then Tyndale crieth out upon the prelate's and upon the temporal princes, and calleth them murderers and martyr quellers/ dyssymuling that the cruel wrech with his wretched books, murderethe the man himself while he giveth him the poison of his heresies, and thereby compellethe princes by occasion of their incurable and contagyouse pestilence, to punish them according to justice by sore painful deth●, both for ensample and for infection of other.  
which thing as sore as these heretics reprove/ affirming that it is against the gospel of christ, that any heretic should be persecuted and punished, and specially by bodily pain or death/ and some of them say the same of every manner crime, theft, murder, treason, and all: yet in almain now contrary to their own evangelical doctrine, those evangelycalls' themself cease not to pursue and punish by all the means they may, by purse, by prison, by bodily pain, and death, diverse their evangelical brethren that vary fro their sect/ as there are of those counterfeit evangelycalls more sundry sorts of diabolical sects, than a man may well rehearse.  
And this at the last be they driven themself, contrary to their own former doctrine/ because they find & prove well by experience, that though their sects be but false heresies all, yet can not the tone sort long dwell with the t'other/ but that if they begin once to be matchies, they shall not fail at length to contend and strive together, & by seditions, the tone drive the t'other to ruin. For never shall the country long abide without debate and ruffle/ where schisms & factyouse heresies are suffered a while to grow.  
believe me not if any man can reckon a place where ever he found it otherwise, in Affryque the Donatystes/ in Grece the Arryanes'/ in Boheme the hussites/ in England the wyclyffystes/ and now in almain the Lutherans/ and after that the zuynglyanes/ what bysynes they have made, what destruction and manslaughter they have caused, partly the stories witness, partly men have presently seen. And yet hath god alway maintained and continued his true catholic faith, with the great fall & ruin at length of many scysmatycall sects/ whose fall undowtedly the remanant will in conclusion follow, with the plain & open wrath of god showed upon their false prophets/ as it fell upon the prophets both of Beale and Baal, & now this year upon zuinglius himself that first brought in to Swycherland the abominable heresy against the blessed sacrament of the altar, and was as I say by the hand of god this year slain in plain battle against the catholics with many a thousand of his wretched sect, being in number to the Catholics three against one/ and as proudly and with as malycy●use purpose invading them, as ever did the Egyptians pursue the children of Israel.  
But now saith Tyndale and frere Barns both, that I do them wrong, in that I call their books seditious. For they counsel they say the people in their books, to be obedient unto their sovereigns & rulers, all though they should suffer wrong/ and how can our books then (say they) be seditious?  
Surely to make men heretics, and then bid them be meek (when heresy springeth as saint austin saith of pride) standeth as well with reason/ as to make a man drunk, and bid him be sober/ make him stark mad, & bid him be well advised/ make him a stark thief, and bid him see he steel not.  
How be it beside the sedition that every scysine and division must needs move and provoke among any people that are of diverse sectis, all though they were all obedient unto one prince/ and cause them thereby though they rebelled not against his person, yet to break the peace and quiet of his country, and tun in to the danger & apparel of his laws: let us yet ferther look and consider in what manner & fashion they counsel the people to obey their princes.  
They bid the people for a countenance to be obedient. But they say therewith that the laws & precepts of their sovereigns do nothing bind the subjects in their conscyencies, but if the things by them commaundede or forbidden, were before commanded or forbidden in scripture. And all the words of scripture whereby they be commanded to obey their governors, would they restrain unto those things only, that are expressed all ready within the corpse of scripture. So that if they can beguile the laws & precepts of their sovereigns unware to other men, and thereby i'll fro the apparel of outward bodily punishment: their evamgely call liberty should serve them sufficiently for discharge of their conscience, and inwardly make them in their souls clear angelical hypocryties.  
Now when they falsely tell them that they be not bounden to obey their governors lawful commandments/ and then holily counsel them to obey their unlawful tyranny (for by that name call they the laws) what effect ween ye they would that their advice should have? They know themself well enough and the manner of the people to/ and be not so mad I warrant you but that they perceive full well, that if they can persuade the people to believe that they be not in their conscience bounden to obey the laws and precepts of their governors/ themself be no such precious apostles, that folk would forbear their own ease or pleasure, for the faint feigned counsel of a few false apostatas. And thus is it sure, that by their false doctrine they must if they be believed, bring the people in to the secret contempt, and spiritual disobedience, & inward hatred of the law/ whereof must after follow the outward breach, and thereupon outward punishment & apparel of rebellion/ whereby the princes should be driven to sore effusion of their subjects blood, as hath all ready miss happened in Almaigne and of old time in England.  
Let us yet consider ferther a point of their good holy counsel concerning the people's obedience.  
Frere Barns in his frantyke book, biddeth the people that they should not rebel in no wise. But he biddeth them therewith that for all the kings commandment, they should not suffer Tyndales false translation of the scripture go out of their hand/ but rather die then leave it. Now knoweth he well that the false malicious manner that Tyndale hath used in the translating therof●as I have proved both in my dialogue and sins again in this book/ and as Tyndale doth himself in his own answer openly confess in the titles of penance and pressed: was done to set forth his false heresies withal. And therefore it appeareth well that Barns would have the people rather die then obey their princes, in putting away that book that is falsely translated for the maintenance of many pestilent heresies. And thus ye see how fain he would glory in the people's blood. For he woteth very well that the kings highness will in no wise, nor in no wise may if he will save his own soul/ suffer that false translation in the hands of unlearned people, which is by an open heretic purposely translated false to the destruction of so many souls.  
Now no man doubteth I think, but that Tindale himself would no less were done for the maintenance of his false translation of the evangelists, than would his evangelical brother Barns/ but that folk should against the kings proclamations keep still his books, & rather than leave them, die in the quarrel for the defence of his glory.  
where as I before in my dialogue did say that Luther's books be seditious, as I now say that Tyndales be to, & moving people to their own undoing to be dysobedyent and rebellious to their sovereigns, in affirming that they be not nor can not be bounden by any law made by men: Tyndale answereth me for Luther that I say vutrewly/ and than saith he ferther in this wise: A christian man is bounden to obey tyranny/ if it be not a against his faith nor the law of god, till god deliver him thereof.  
Now let I pass much railing that he consequently maketh upon princes/ and shall for this time only counsel you to consider these few words of his, which he layeth forth for a rule of people's obedience to their prince. For his rule is that they shall obey their tyranny, till god deliver them thereof. And in this point will I not be Tyndals' interpreter/ he may mean diverse ways, but which way he meaneth in deed, he shall himself declare at his further ●eysore/ for me thinketh he meaneth not very well, saving that I will not take him to the worst.  
But in the other point, I may be bold to say that no good man may take him well, where he saith that a christian man is bounden to obey their princes tyranny, if it be not against his faith nor the law of god. And yet will I well agree that if these words were spoken of a good faithful man's mouthe● and where any need required it: they were very well said/ as they were when the apostles said, we must rather please god then man. But when Tyndale that is an heretic putteth for a rule of the people's obedience to a good christian prince, that they be bounden to obey his teranny if it be not against his faith: I say that this his rule of obedience is a plain exhortation to disobedience and rebellion. For every man well seeth that Tyndale among many other abominable heresies teacheth for the right faith, that freres may lawfully wed nunnys/ and that no man is bounden to the keeping of any fasting day or holiday made by the church/ and that no man should pray to any saint, nor pray for all christian souls/ and that it is great sin to do any worship to crysties precious body in the blessed sacrament of the altar/ and would the people should keep his false translation of scripture for maintenance of these heresies. And therefore if any prince make a law against Tyndales heresies, in any of these points or such other like: Tyndale here teacheth tha● the people are not bound to obey it/ but may and must withstand such tyranny. Or at the lest wise, though they be bound peradventure openly to obey their princes tyranny, in forbearing flesh on good friday, or coming to god's service on whytsone sunday, or freres in forbearing open wedding with nuns (in all which things they be yet by Tindales godly gospel at their evangelical liberty, secretly to do what they list themself, where no peace is broken nor any week conscience offended): yet for any law or commandment either of prince, or pope, or general counsel of all christian nations, or of any angel that would come out of heaven to command in God's name the contrary/ every man must keep still Tyndales false translation of scripture, and abide by his other false books made for the maintenance of his manifold false heresies. And no man must for no law nor commandment pray to any saint, nor for any soul in purgatory, nor kiss any relic, nor creep to Crystes cross, nor do any worship to Crystes blessed body and blood in the holy sacrament of the altar.  
But if any prince would by any law or commandment, compel his people to any of those things: then Tyndale here plainly teacheth them that they may and must stiffly withstand his tyranny. So that finally concerning obedience/ Tyndales holy doctrine is, that the people should in the defence of his false heresies, not let to dysobaye but stubernly to withstand their prince.  
which if any man were so mad to do/ & then were therefore in their obstinacy burned, or otherwise in their rebellion slain: there were the triumph the great rest and glory of Tyndales devilish proud dyspytuouse heart, to delight and rejoice in the effusion of such people's blood as his poisoned books had miserably bywyched, and from true christian folk, turned into false wicked wretches.  
Now to th'intent that ye may the more clearly perceive the malicious mind of these men, and that their pestilent books be both odious to god and deadly contagyouse to men/ and so much the more perilous in that their false he relies wilily walk forth under the counterfeit visage of the true christian faith: this is the cause and purpose of my present labour/ whereby god willing I shall so pull of their gay painted vysours, that every man lysting to look thereon, shall plainly perceive and behold the bare ugly gargyle faces of their abominable heresy.  
And for because the matter is long, and my leisure seld & short: I can not as I fain would send out all at ones, but if I should keep still all together by me longer than me thinketh conuenye●t.  
I send out now therefore of this present work, these three books first. In the first of which I answer Tyndales preface made before his answer to my dialogue/ which preface of his is in a manner an introduction into all his heresies. The second book is against his defence of his translation of the new testament. The third against two chapters of Tyndales answer/ the tone, whythet the word were afore the church or the church afore the word/ the t'other, whither the apostles left any thing unwritten necessary to salvation, whereupon great part of all his heresies hang.  
Now shall I (god willing) at my next leysor go ferther in his book, and come to the very breast of all this battle/ that is to wit the question which is the church. For that is the point that all these heretic by all the means they may labour to make so dark, that by their wills no man should wit what they mean. But I trust to draw the serpent out of his dark den/ and as the poets feign that Hercules drew up Cerberus the mastyffe of hell into the light where his eyen dazed: so shall I with the grace of that light which illumineth every man that cometh in to this world, make you that matter so lightsome and so clear to every man, that I shall leave Tyndale never a dark corner to creep into, able to hide his head.  
Then after that I have so clearly confuted Tyndale concerning that point, and shall have plainly proved you the sure and steadfast authority of Crystes catholic known church, against all Tyndales trifling sophistications/ which he would should seem so solemn subtile insolubles, which ye shall see proved very frantyke follies: after this done I say, before I go ferther with Tyndale, I purpose to answer good young father Fryth/ which now suddenly cometh forth so sagely, that iii old men, my brother Rastell, the bishop of Rochester & I, matched with father Fryth alone, be now but very babies, and as he calleth us insipientes. But thus goth the world forth between Fryth and us. He increaseth I see well as fast as we decay. For ones I ween the youngest of us three, three days ere father Fryth was borne/ had learned within a little as much as father Fryth hath now. How be it I shall leave young father Fryth in his pride & glory for the while. But when Tindale is once in the article touching the church confuted: them hath Frith already concerning purgatory clearly lost the field/ and all his well-beloved book is not worth a b●ton, though it were all as true as it is false. For than is the faith of the church in that point infallible, or at the lest unculpable, were there scripture therefore or not. And no scripture can there prove the very true church to hold an article as true faith, that were in deed damnably false.  
And yet shall I for all that go ferther with young father Fryth, and to which if god will every part of his fresh painted book/ and so shall I plukke of I trust the most glorious feathers from his gay peacocks tail, that I shall seve him if he have wit and grace, a little less delight & liking in himself than he seemeth now to have/ which thing hath hitherto made him for to stand not a little in his own light.  
I pray god heartily send that young man the grace to bestow his wit and learning such as it is, about some better business than Tyndale miss bestoweth it now. For now is Frythys' wit and learning, nothing but Tyndales instrument whereby he bloweth out his heresy.  
Finally after that I shall have answered Fryth/ I purpose to return again unto Tyndales book, and answer him in every chapter that he hath impugned in the four books of my dialogue. wherein I trust to make every child perceive his wily follies and false crafts, with his open shameless lies put in and mingled among them/ where with he fain would & weeneth to blind in such wise the world, that folk should not espy the falsehood & folly of his erectable heresies.  
I think that no man doubteth but that this work both hath been and will be some pain and labour to me/ and of troth so I find it. But as help me god I find all my labour in the writing not half so grievous and painful to me, as the tedious reading of their blasphemous heresies/ that would god after all my labour done, so that the remembrance of their pestilent errors were araced out of english men's hearts, and their abominable books burned up, mine own were walked with them/ and the name of these matters utterly put in oblivion. How be it sith I see the devil in these days so strong, and these devilish heresies so sore set a brooch in some unhappy hearts, that they never cease in all that ever they may to spread these books abroad to such as keep them in hukermoker, & secretly poison themself weening the books were very good while they read but then alone/ and then of those evil books so many daily made by so many idle heretics and by & by sent hither: it were need as me seemeth that diverse wise & well learned men should set their pennies to the book/ which though they shall not satisfy them that will needs be nought, yet shall they do good to such as fall to these folk of oversight, weening that their new ways were well.  

Lucae .15.  Our saviour saith that the children of darkness be more politic in their kind then are the children of light in their kind. And surely so seemeth it now. For these false faithless heretics, whose hearts are in the deep dark done geon of the devil/ are more wily and more busy therewith in setting forth of their heresies, then are the faithful learned folk in the defence of the troth.  
And as the true disciples of christ were in slumber and fell in sleep in Crystes company, while judas the traitor was waking and watching about his detestable treason: so while these judasys watch & study about the making of their ungracious books, good and true believing men that were meet to answer them, and that were able in writing to much more than overmatche them, if they would wake and pray and take the pen in hand/ be now so forweryed with the sorrow and heaviness to see the world wax so wretched, that they fall even in a slumber therewith and let these wretches alone/ saving that yet sometime some good Peter in a good zeal so smiteth of Malchus ear, that god setteth it on better again and giveth it grace to draw bakke from the herkening of false heresies, and to give itself to the hearing of Crystes true catholic faith. And sometime again some good holy Poule shaketh the poisoned adder into a fair fire/ that lying and lurking among the dry fruitless faggots catcheth good folk by the fingers, and so hangeth on their hands with the poison sting of false only faith, that they would withhold them from setting their hands to any good virtuous works.  
But now leaving other men to do as god shall like to put in their minds: I shall for my part perform that I have promised if god give me life and grace thereto. For as for leysore shall not I trust one time or other lack to suffice, for so much & for much more to. which when I have as I before said all together performed: I would in good faith wish that never man should need to read any word.  
For surely the very best way were neither to read this nor theirs/ but rather the people vulerned to occupy themself beside their other business in prayer, good medytacyon● and reading of such english books as most may nourish and increase devotion. Of which kind is Bonaventure of the life of christ. Gerson of the following of christ, and the devout contemplative book of Scala perfectionis with such other like/ than in the learning what may well be answered unto heretics.  
The very treacle were well loster so that all venom and poison were utterly lost therewith. And better were it not to be sick at all/ then of a great sickness to be very well heeled.  
And if it might be provided that every man should be so well tempered, that no man should by dystemperaunce fall into disease: then were it better that the physician bestowed all his time about that part of physic that teacheth to preserve our health, then to write any word of that part that restoreth it. But sith it can never be brought to pass that poison will be forgotten, nor that every man shall use himself so cyrcumspectely, but that either of oversight or adventure some shall have need of cure: therefore it is necessary that treacle for the tone, and other medicines for the other be provided and had. And therefore as I would wish that their books were all gone and mine own therewith: so sith I see well that that thing will not be/ better it is I reckon that there be treacle ready, than the poison to tarry and no treacle for it.  
How be it though every shop were full of treacle: yet were he not wise I ween that would wilfully drink poison first to drink treacle after/ but rather cast the poison to the devil, and let the treacle stand for some that should hap to need it. And likewise would I counsel every good christian man, and specially such as are not groundly learned/ to cast out the poisoned draft of these heretics books, which when they be drunken down infect the reader and corrupt the soul unto the everlasting death/ and therefore neither vouchsafe to read their books nor any thing made against them neither, but abhor to here their heresies so much as named/ according to the gracious counsel of the blessed apostle Poule against fornication, where he writeth unto the ephesians: 
Ephes. 5.  Let not fornication be so much as named or spoken of among you. And yet sith that would not be brought to pass that he counseled, and would fain have had observed: he was fain himself to speak thereof and write thereof to arm the people against it, in more placies then one/ as both he and other apostles and all holy doctor's synnies have been driven to write against heresies, & yet would fain that folk would so clear have cast all heresies out of remembrance, that neither themself should have needed to write thereof, nor other folk to read the part of their books.  
And therefore as I would advise any man neither to read these heretics books nor mine, but occupy their minds better/ and standing firmly by the catholic faith of this xv. C. year, never once muse upon these new fangled heresies: so un the other side if it miss hap any man to fall in such a fond affection & vain curious mind, that neither apparel temporal in breach of his princes proclamation & the laws of the realine, nor the apparel spiritual in hurting of his own soul, nor they both together by putting himself in danger to burn both here and in hell, can hold his ycching fingers from their poisoned books/ then would I counsel him in any wise to read therewith such things as are written against them, and way them both at the lest wise indifferently/ and not to fall suddenly so drunk in the new must of their newe●angled neweltyes, that the old wholesome wine with which good folk have lived now this fifteen hundred year, offend their drunken taste, because it is not so wallow sweet but drinketh more of the verder.  
furthermore for as much as according to the words of christ, 
Lucae .17.  It will none otherwise be, but that some stumbling blokkies will alway be by malicious folk laid in good people's way/ though best were to stop your ●aris utterly and give none hearing to any false euchauntors that would bywych you wilily, to make you delight in those books: yet sith some that be plain & simple may fortune to be secretly miss lead by false wily shrews except they be well armed before/ I doubt not by gods grace but if they read first the things that are written against them, they shall themself be able to reject and confound any devil that would draw them to them. And therefore as I am sure that evil and ungracious folk shall ever find the means that such books shall never in some corners lack whereby good people may be deceived and corrupted: it is more then necessary that men have again at hand such books as may well arm them, to resist and confute them. Of which kind of good books all be it I know well there may and doubt not but there shall be, many better made then mine/ and that some such I see already: yet have I not so sieyghtly seen unto mine own, nor shoffled it up so hastily, nor let it so pass unlooked for by better men and better learned also then myself/ but that I trust in god it may among the better stand yet in some good stead. And that it so may to god's honour and the profit of some good folk, I heartily beseech our lord/ without the adspiration and help of whose especial grace no labour of man can profit/ and to whom therefore be all thank referred, which liveth and reigneth in eternal glory. To which as he hath all ready brought many a blessed saint: so moat his mercy bring with speed the souls that are in purgatory/ and give us the here live in this wretched world, aid and help of grace by true faith and good works to follow them, the rather by the intercession and prayers of all his holy saints that are all ready with him.  
A, MEN.   

The preface of Tyndall, with th● answer unto the same.  

Tyndall.  
THe grace of our lord, the light of his spirit, to see and to iudg● true repentance toward god's law, a fast faith in the merciful promises that are in our saviour christ, fervent love toward thy neighbour after then sample of christ and his saints be with thee (O reder) and with all that love the truth, and l●nge for the redemption of goddies elect. Amen.   

More.  
tindal here beginneth with an holy salutation, and so doth Luther to and so doth fre●e huskyne to/ and id doth every fond fellow of any of their sects. They begin their pistles in such apostolical fashion/ that a man would ween it were written from saint Paul himself. But would god they would once rather follow him truly in faith and good works, then in simulation of like sancryte with their holy salutations.  
For if men consider that where Tyndal here prayeth holy. +ly for the light of the spirit to see true repentance/ he than teacheth himself a sudden slight repentance/ forbeding both confession & all doing of penance: they shall if they be good men set little by his holy salutation. And when they consider that where he prayeth god send them a fast faith/ himself teacheth a false faith against the sacraments, and meaneth that they should be fast in the same: there will no good christian man can him thank for that holy prayer. And where he prayeth here ●o holily for the love of the neigh. +bour/ if men look on the love that is used among all the masters of that hole holy sect, & consider their lyvyngys', and look upon frere Luther the very father of their hole sect, and see him run out of religion, & fallen to flesh and caryn and live in lechery with a nun under name of wedlock, and all the chief heads of then late monks & freres, and now apostatas & living with harlots under the name of wives: he that looketh on this and then secth them and their scholars, as Tyndale here and such other come forth and speak so holily/ would he not ween that it were a sort of freres following an abbot of misrule in a Christmas game that were prykked in blankettes, and then should stand up and preach upon a stole and make a mowing sermon.  
And as lewd sermons as they make in such naughty games, would god that these men's ernyst sermons were not yet much worse. But surely as evil as the other be/ yet is there more harm & more deadly poison to in this one sermone of Tyndal's, as ye shall here or it come at the end: then in an hundred sermons of frere Frappe, that first gapeth and then blessyth, and looketh holily and preacheth ribaldry to the people that stand about.  
For there is not the worst thing that frere Frappe preacheth in a lewd sport: but father Tyndall here writeth much worse in very great earnest, & much worse than doth the t'other abusyth the scripture unto it.  
The t'other when he preacheth that men may lawfully go to lcchery/ he maketh commonly some fond texts of his own head, and dare not in such mad matters meddle with the very scripture it self. But Tyndall teacheth us in good earnest that freres may walk out and wed nuns/ and is neither afeard nor ashamed to draw the holy scripture of god unto the maintenance of abhominabyll sin and service of the devil.  
The other rybawde in his fond sermon meddleth but with fleshly vices and worldly wantonness. But Tyndall here with an earnest high profession of godly spiritual doctrine teacheth us a false faith & many mortal heresies, and would with scripture destroy the scripture/ and amid dies his earnest holiness falleth in to mocks and mows, & maketh mad apysshe jesting against the holy cerimonyes and blessed sacraments of● our saviour christ/ & the things sanctified with the blessed blood of our saviour Tyndall turneth in to scorn. Never was there any scoffing frere Frappe preaching upon a stole, that durst play the knavish fool on such a fashion as ye shall see Tyndall do here. For if any should/ his audience (were they never so wanton) would yet at such words (if any spark of christian ●●●e remained in their hearts) pull down the rybawld by th●●●rte, and break the stole upon his head.  
And ●ow where as he saluteth us with the light of the spirit, and intendeth to bring us in darkness of the devil/ where he speaketh of true repentance, and then would put away two parts thereof, that is to wit both confession and satisfaction/ and where he speaketh of fast faith, and then teacheth a false presumptuous faith wy●h such trust put in faith alone that he reckoneth all good works fruitless and unprofitable, and that faith alone sufficeth to salvation, how dyvelyshely that any man live beside: we may well perceive that these tha● so teach, be with their holy salutations the false idle prophets of whom the blessed apostle paul writeth unto the romans, 
Rom. 16  that by their sweet blessings waste out and empty the poor widows houses. For by such holy salutation, as by sweet blessing praying for them so good things as they seem to do: they win their hearts to assent after to their heresies, and so expel and kill true faith in their hearts/ and god so taken from them they make them widows, & so waste and empty out the substantial virtues of their souls.  
But now when he speaketh of fervent love after the ensample of christ and his saints/ as earnest as the matter is, who can forbear laughing when he seeth the lecherous fleshly love of those freres and their nuns/ whereof till Tyndall can tell us some like ensamples of christ and his saints, that any of them were wont to break their vows of chastity and fall to such filthy lechery/ till he can tell us that, we may well tell him that his holy prayer of fervent love here in his prologue/ goeth quite against his purpose and shameth all his hole book after.  
wherefore good christian readers who so shall hap to read his pernicious book, take wisdom with you as I doubt not but ye will/ and be not so led with a few painted holy words as it were with the beholding of a pekokkes tail but that ye regard therewith his fowl feet also/ and look well whither he walketh and to what end he speaketh, and consider him by the head masters, and archherityques of his ungracious sect/ which when they have spoken as relygiousely as he, yet have as ye see well shamefully showed themselves open incestuous harlots, and that of the most abominable sort deflowering religious women.  
And Tyndall himself (which thing is worse than the deed doing) maintaineth in his book their deed for well done.   

Tyndall.  
☞ Our saviour jesus in the xuj chapter of Iohn at his last souper when he took his leave of his disciples warned them saying, the holy ghost s●all come and rebuke the world of judgement, 
Tyndale 〈◊〉 now y● 〈◊〉 ghost sent ●owne from heaven to ●e●uke the judgement of all christendom this. ●v. C. year passed.  that is he shall rebuke the world for lack of true judgement and discretion to judge, and shall prove that the taste of their mouths is corrupt, so that they judge sweet to be sour and sour to be sweet: and their yees to be blind, so that they think that to be very service of god which is but a blind superstition, for zeal of which yet they persecute the true service of god: and that they judge to be the law of god which is but a false imagination of a corrupt judgement, for blind affection of which yet they persecute the true law of god and them that keep it.   

More.  
How soon might a poor simple soul be led to think, that all those that believe not as Tyndall doth, were in a wrong way and in a false belyeff/ when he heareth Tyndall here lay against them the words of our saviour himself spoken unto his disciples in his last supper.  
But now they that be learned and know the place in the gospel, perceive very well that Tyndall here sinfully doth abuse the holy words of christ, and manifestly mystorneth the mind and sentence of our saviour, following th'example of the devil that alleged the scripture unto christ in desert.  
For as the devil there falsely wrested the scripture of god and layed it against god: so doth Tyndall here wrest the word of our saviour against himself and his hole church, I say his hole church not the clergy only, but the hole congregation of all christian people.  
For it is well known that christ spoke those words against the jews and paynims that refused him and his true faith/ showing that the holy ghost at his coming should reprove their false judgement and their unsavoury taste, that judged sweet sour & sour sweet, and that he should teach his church and his congregation the very truth and lead them in to all truth that should be necessary for their salvation.  
And this promise hath our saviour both made in the gospel and also fulfilled in deed. For the holy ghost hath not failed to teach his church all such kind of truth from the beginning hitherto, nor never shall cease so to do, as well by his own holy secret word unwritten in the scripture, and yet by himself written in christian men's hearts/ as by his holy scripture either written in tables of stone or in beasts skins/ according to his own words spoken as well by the mouth of the prophet Ezechiel, 
Ezech. 11.  as of the blessed apostle saint Paul.  
These truths had the apostles, the martyrs, the confessors, the holy doctors of Crystis church, and the comen christian people of every age from Christ'S death hitherto. And in this comen known church of christendom/ except such as at sundry times have fallen there from as Arrius Pelagius, Donatus, wyclyff, and hus, & such other/ and now Luther, and Tyndall, and frere Huskyn, and their fellows) hath ever the true judgement remained & the right savoured taste/ and never lost any of those heretics these necessary truths, till the devil had thorough pride, envy, and malice, made them set nought by the church. And then did he cast them forth with in such a fever that they clean lost their taste/ and then did they as Tyndall doth now, judge sweet that all christendom judged sour.  
And by those truths and this faith alway from the beginning kept in Christ'S church/ be we now very sure that this new faith of Luther, Tyndall, and frere Huskyn is very fond and false, and that their mouths are all out of taaste/ sith that from Christ'S death hitherto all holy men, all good people, all true christian nations, have savoured alway those meats to be good and wholesome, which these fond fellows affirm now to be bitter & perilous meat/ and have always affirmed for unsavoury meat and evil, such as now these mad men affirm to be well seasoned & good/ & have always hitherto reputed for shameful and filthy lechery, the fleshly cowpling together of freres and nuns, that these losels now do boldly put forth & avow for good and lawful matrimony.  
If Tyndall grant that I say true in this/ then shall he be fain to grant that the words which he allegeth against us spoken by the mouth of our saviour be not spoken agayst us that believe as all Christ'S church hath believed ever hitherto/ but that they be spoken against himself and his fellows that believe the contrary. And on the other side if Tyndall deny me this, and will say that all good men and gods elects have alway believed as he & his fellows do teach/ and that they have alway taught and done the same: let Tyndall then tell us one good honest man, what speak we of honest man? let him tell us of any one so very a stark rybawlde in all this xu C. year afore Luther's days and his, that ever taught that it was lawful for a frere to wed a nun. If Tyndall show you not this as I wot well he can not: 
●● Tyndale taketh here saint Poule at his pleasure For saint Po●le speaketh not there of b●rne again nor new created with the spyryt/ but that sensual men as those that be carnal● & contenciouse be not meet for the perfect doctrine of spiritual ievelations. and the● by that place Tyndales spirytual● s●rte be not spiritual nor meet vessels to receive & give ●ut the doctrine of the spirit/ for there be no people so carnal & so ●●t●cic●se as they  than be ye very sure that sith every holy man before his days hath taught the contrary, and hath had it in detestation, & he now defendeth it for good against all good men that hath been ever synnies Crystes days to his own/ how holy a tale so ever he tell you beside, & how so ever he paint it with scripture, writhen and wrested out of all good course, ye may be sure enough that his doctrine is for all that very stark nought in deed, and that he meaneth no good/ and that if he believe as he teacheth, as I verily believe he doth not/ his faith is very false   

Tyndall  
☞ And this same is it that Paul saith in the second chapter of the first epistle to the Corynthians/ how that the natural man that is not borne again and created a new with the spirit of god, be he never so great a philosopher, never so well seen in the law, never so sore studied in the scripture, as we have ensamples in the pharysies: yet he can not understand the things of the spirit of god/ but (saith he) the spiritual judgeth all things, & his spirit searcheth the deep secretis of god/ so that what so ever god commandeth him to do, 
saint paul in that place speaketh n●t of any search that spiritual men should make of the cause of god is commandments/ but Tyndall feigneth the thing to find by the se●che of the cause some discharge of the commandment.  he never leaveth searching till he come at the bottom, the pith, the quick, the life, the spirit, the mary, and very cause why, and judgeth all thing.   

More  
ye consider well that Tyndall in these words would ye should ween that these folk of whom saint Poule speaketh in that place/ be such as can not savour the doctrine of Luther, frere Huskyn, and him. But then consider again upon whom his words fall. For ye doubt not nor himself can not deny/ but that his doctrine is far from the taste of saint Austeyne, saint Hierone, saint Ambrose, saint Cyrpian, saint Gregory, and all those old holy doctors of Crystes church unto Luther's days and his/ or else as I said let him tell me which of all them did not abhor that a pressed should wed a nun. And therefore thus ye see that by Tyndal's holy tale there were none of all them were they never so great philosophers, never so well seen in the law, never so sore studied in scripture/ that cold understand the things of the spirit of god, because they were but natural men not borne again nor created a new with the spirit of god.  
How knoweth Tyndale that none of all these that hath been adversaries to his doctrine, that is to wit of all good men that ever were in christendom sith christ was borne unto Tyndal's time, was borne again or new created with the spirit of god. How himself understandeth his high spiritual words I wot near/ but I wot well that all those holy fathers were reputed for good christian/ and I ween they were all baptised and borne again of water and the spirit as our saviour said unto Nychodemus/ & after that they lived well and spiritually, and died well and spiritually, as appeareth by their books and histories written of their lives, and miracles showed for them of god af●er their deaths. And unto such simple groce carnal people as we be/ these things seem well to show that they were borne again of god & new created with his spirit and so by Tyndal's own tale should seem able to understand the things of the spirit of god.  
But yet will Tyndale none of that. For he liketh not their judgement/ but he saith that the spiritual judgeth all things. And where as saint Paul in the place alleged by Tyndale saith that the holy ghost the spirit of god searcheth even the deep things of god, by cause that unto that holy spirit which is god there is nothing of god unknown: Tyndale taketh that high power unto his wursh●ppefull spiritual sort/ saying the spiritual judgeth all th●nges, and his spirit searcheth the deep secrets of god. And with this not satisfied/ he amplifyteh and enhanceth their holy search upon height/ and saith that the spirit of their spiritual sort search the deep secrets of god so far that what so ever god commandeth them to do/ they never leave searching till they come at the bottom, the pith the quick the life, the spirit, the marry, and very cause why/ and so judge all thing.  
what an heap of high vehement words hath Tyndale here heaped up together? who would not ween that he were with some holy meditation carried up in Ennoke and Helyas char. But yet good christian reder for all his holy tale/ remember again the frere and the nun, Luther and his wife Tyndales own master and masters, the chyeff head & author of his high spiritual faith. For Lutherye wot well (if Tyndale and his fellows be spiritual & elects) must as their first author of their new spiritual sect, be needs one of the very chief. Let not therefore Tyndall (good reder) with his gay glorious words carry you so fast & so far away, but that ye remember to pull him bakke/ by the sleeve a little, and ask him whither his own high spiritual doctor master Martyne Luther himself, being specially borne again & new created of the spirit, whom god in many places of holy scripture hath commanded to keep his vow made of chastity/ when he then so far contrary there unto took out of religion a spouse of christ, wedded her himself in reproach of wedlock, called her his wife, and made her his harlot, and in double despite of marriage and religion both, liveth with her openly and lieth with her nightly, in shameful incest and abominable bycherye: doth he the while after Tyndal's high words search the deep secrets, and never leave searching till he come to the bottom, the pith, the quick, the life, the spirit, the marry, and the very cause of that commandment why, and so judgeth all thing?  
Thus good readers examine him/ and than shall ye perceive how fond such an high pure spiritual process, accordeth with such a baas fowl fleshly living. But Tyndale hath an hope that while he painteth his prologue with such gay colours of spiritual virtue: there can no man in the mean while remember and consider what ungracious fruit their deceitful doctrine & false faith bringeth forth. And therefore to carry the reder farther of/ from the remembrance thereof/ he letteth go by their filthy lechery and holily speaketh of love.   

Tyndale.  
Take an example in the great commandment, love god with all thine heart/ the spiritual searcheth the cause and looketh on the benesyties of god, and so conceiveth love in his heart.   

More.  
In this example of the great commandment of loving of god/ there can lack no causes, but without any far search there offer themself I now at hand, except men will fully will forget them.  
But yet all be it that in many things a man may peradventure well and with fruit appeal the cause of god's commandments/ yet may the spirit of a man that were as spiritual as Tyndale is or Luther either, and take frere Huskyn to them/ go some time to far in the searching of the deep secrets of god, and wade so far therein/ that he shall find these words of holy scripture true, 
Pro●er. 25  He that is that the searcher of the majesty shall be oppressed of the glory and he shall find the deep secretis of god so deep that the secret bottom will not be found out for him/ and specially in that thing in which Tyndall and his fellows be as I shall hereafter show you most presumptuously busy/ that is in God's final electis & predestinaties whereof saint Paul crieth himself, 
R●●. 11  O altitudo divitiarum sapientiae & sci●tiae dei● O the he●th and deepness of the riches of the wisdom & science of god.  
And as for that that Tyndall saith, that what so ever god commandeth the spiritual man to do, he never 〈◊〉 searching till he come at the bottom, the pith, the quycks, the life, the spirit, the mary● and the very cause why● and judgeth all things: I say as I said before it may peradventure in some things do well to consider the causes of god's commandment, so it be done moderately and with reverence. But many such spiritual persons as Tyndale is and Luther, and frere Huskyn/ so be wont to reason and search the cause of god's commandments with themself as king Saul did/ or between the devil and the●m self as our mother Eve did, 
R●●●●. 1● 〈◊〉. ●  that they fall upon fallacyes and false causes/ whereby like as Saul was deceived in saving of the beasts for sacrifice, which beasts god had pr●cysely commanded him to destroy/ and Eve was so by guiled that she thought she might well eat the apple which god had precisely commanded her to forbear: so doth I say to, these men that are in this new fashion spiritual, the devil their evil spirit and themself with their incessaunte search find out self causes, whereof they take occasion to break the commandments of god/ which commandments other good silly simple soul's without any search observe.  
As for ensample, lo where as god hath in holy scripture evidently commanded, 
Psal. ● 5 Ecc.c. 5 Esaiae. 19 jonae. 2  that who so make a vow shall perform and keep it, as is written by the holy psalmist, Vow ye and pay your vows to our lord/ and where as our blessed lady thought herself bound thereto, & all the holy saints sins Cristes' days unto Tyndals' time, have without any variance written & affirmed the same, & not only they but also all christian people both good & bad, have this xu C. yer● aborted as an abominabyle monster, and accounted it in comen talking for such a prodigyouse crime that ever monk or frere should wed an nun, as they thought should never happen in christendom, & therefore have always jested that antichrist should be borne between a frere and a nun: these new spiritual men have now, Luther, Tyndall, and frere Huskyn and the devil together, so long ensearched the cause of this commandment of god, by which every man is commanded to keep his vow/ that they have with long search founden out at last, that monks, freres, and nuns, be not bounden by that commandment at all/ but may for all their vow lawfully run out of religion and lie together when they list, and call their filthy lechery good and lawful wedlock.  
And thus lo good reder these new spiritual men with their deep search interpret and expone holy scripture, and find out therein such godly virtues as this is which the old holy doctors could never find therein for lack of grace by likelihood, for we see well they lacked no wit & had as much learning as these men have and ten times more to, and did their diligence to/ but they were as it seemeth but natural only, not borne again nor created of new with the spirit of god as Luther is and Tyndale & frere Huskyn and his fellows.  
Take ensample saith Tyndale in the great commandment, love god with all thine heart, the spiritual serchyth the cause and looketh on the benefits of god, and so conceiveth love in his heart.  
In these words I lay no fault. But all be it a man might assign other causes of our love toward god then Tyndale doth/ as for ensample his own excellent nature and goodness of it self, worthy ●to be loved, lauded, and honoured of us, though we should if it were possible receive to ourself no benefit at his hand at all: yet I very well allow the cause that Tyndale allegeth, that is to wit the consideration of the great benefits of god/ & it is a cause of love in deed both reasonable of y● self, and also by many a good and virtuous man alleged and considered before.  
But yet me thinketh that this consideration of love affirmed by Tyndale/ doth confound both Tyndall & Luther & all their hole sect, in that they hold that it is not lawful to love and serve god neither for avoiding of pain, nor for obtaining of reward/ calling this manner of love and service servile bond and mercennary. This is their comen opinion, and Tyndale hath it often as well in this book as in diverse other. But now remember good reader that Tyndale saith here the contrary which I am glad to hear him say. For I am better content that he say some time well then always nought. And here he saith right well that the respect of god's benefits is a cause of our love toward god, and surely so is it in deed. For all though the very good and great excellent nature of god be worthy to be loved of us and worshipped and served to, for the sovereign and surmounting goodness of it self, though we should ourself take no manner of benefit thereby: yet may we well have more causes of love, honour, and service joined thereunto.  
yet am I not sure whither Tyndale will say that I do him wrong in that I join service with love, where he seeks not of service but of love only. But I have been bo●d to join our love and service toward god together/ because I verily think that Tyndale will himself grant us, that for what so ever cause it is lawful for us to love god/ for the self same cause it is lawful for us to serve god But Tyndale agreeth that we may love him for his benefits/ whereof it followeth except he say that we may love for some cause, for which it is not lawful to serve him: else I say must Tyndale needs grant that for god's benefits it is lawful for us to serve him.  
Now if Tyndale grant us that conclusion/ we will then wade with him a little further, and join thereunto that if it be lawful for us to serve god for his benefits, which we have received: it is also lawful for us to serve him for his benefytis which we long & hope to receive. And surely as the respect of his benefits which we have received is a good cause of love: so is the belyef of his ꝓmysies & hope of his benefities to come, a good and a great cause of love toward him.  
Then if we may seru● god for his benefits to come/ it seemeth no doubt but that we may serve him for to get heaven, which is of all benefits the greatest.  
At this point will Tyndale happily stick with me/ and he well say stiffly that faith we may use and serve god therewith, to th'intent therewith to get heaven/ for faith his fellows and he affirm to be the thing which only doth justify us. But than they say plainly that if we serve god with any other good work, fasting, prayer, or almose deed, to th'intent that we may therewith please god the better or the rather come to heaven: this service is unlawful, displeasant to god, and plain unfaithfulness/ for as much as we shall as they say be saved only by Crystes blood & by our belyffe in his promises of the same/ & therefore they call it plain idolatry to serve god with any good works for heaven, or to th'intent that we might please god the better thereby. For that thing they say were as much as to make oure self christ, and to say that we would be our own saviours by our own works/ and not christ by the work of his passion.  
In this point they stick stiffly/ and when they be answered that all though we serve god with good works wrought with his gracious help, to th'intent to please him the better thereby/ as himself hath in many places of holy scripture commanded us/ & hope also that such good works shall the rather help us to heaven, and that we shall in heaven be rewarded for them and for the respect of god commandment/ and for this intent also we do them as christ hath also given us good occasion, where he saith that who so give so much as a draft of cold water shall not lose his reward, 
Mar. 9  and where he biddeth us give unto the poor to th'intent that they may receive us in to the eternal tabernacles, 
Lucae. 16.  and where he showeth that at the day of doom men shall have heaven for their chartable alms deeds done here in earth: now when we tell them thus, and that we do never the less knowledge and confess therewith that we neither do nor can do any good work without the special grace & help of god, and that our deeds be commonly so defective that though good deeds well done be rewardable, yet every man may find in himself great cause to mistrust his own, and that we tell them also that all the best that the best man may do, is yet not more than his duty for every man is of his duty ●ounden to labour for heaven and to serve and please god aswell and asmych as he may, and notwithstanding that we also tell them that the best work that any man worketh with God's help and grace, is not yet rewardable with heaven of the nature or goodness of the work itself, all though he suffered every day in a long life a double martyrdom according to the words of saint Paul, 
Rom. 8  the passions of this world be not worthy the glory that is to come that shall be revealed and showed upon us/ and notwithstanding that we tell them to/ that all the heavenly reward of man's good works cometh only of goddies own liberal goodness, in that it hath pleased his high bounty to give so great a rich price for so poor and simple ware as are all men's works/ & all be it that we tell them also that god would not reward our works in such wise, were it not for the shedding of his sons blood/ and so we finally refer all the thank and reward of our good works, both the beginning, the progress, and the end, effectually to god and the merits of Crystes passion/ when we tell Tyndale and Luther all this yet far they as though they heard us not, and still they sing us on their old song that it is idolatry to serve god with any good works, to th'intent the better to please god therewith, and the rather to come to heaven therfore●and that we may not with out sin for any help to hevynwarde serve god with any good work saving only faith.  
yet when we ask them whither we may not lawfully for the same intent serve god with hope to: to that thing they care not to grant/ but than they confound the terms of faith and hope, so as I neither wot how nor themself neither. Then if we ask them farther whither it be not lawful to serve god with charity to (which now they leave and fall all to lusty love) with intent to get heaven the rather: to that they let not to grant also/ but they say the cause is for that faith they say hath alway charity therewith. But all be it that in that point their affirmation is false, as by reason and plain scripture hath been often proved unto them: 
1. C●r. 13 Iac●bi. 2  that is enough to me that they grant that a man may lawfully love god and serve him with charity to th'intent to be the rather saved and come to heaven thereby.  
For now seemeth me that if we lawfully may (as Tyndale will grant we may) serve god with the virtues of faith and hope and charity, or of any one of them with respect unto God's benefits received and also to come/ and to th'intent thereby the rather to be saved & come to heaven, we may then lawfully with like respect, purpose, & intent, serve god with any other virtue that proceedeth of faith, hope, & charity, or of any such one of them with which it is lawful for us for such respect, intent, & purpose to serve god: then will not Tyndale deny but that prayer, fasting, alms deed, and continence and cleanness of body, penance, trouble of the mind, with sufferauns of tribulation or affliction of the flesh willingly taken, with many other outward and inward works/ may proceed of faith, hope and charity. wherefore I can not see but that Tyndale as he granteth here that we may serve god with love, intending thereby to please him and be saved the rather: so must he nedys' grant and agree that likewise may we with like intent and purpose serve with all other works above remembered, proceeding of a faithful working charity/ whereof he and all his fond fellows in every place hold hitherto the contrary.  
And thus have I now plainly deduced upon tyndal's own words the full confusion of his own comen conclusion, so many times by him and his fellows objected, and among them all never once yet well proved nor never able to be proved, against the profit of good men's christian works/ for christian be their prayers, their fasting, and their almose deeds, when they be done in faith, hope and charity, and in the state of grace.   

Tyndall  
And when he is commanded to obey the powers and rulers of the world/ be looketh on the benefits which god showeth the world thorough them and therefore doth it gladly.   

More.  
In this obedience Tyndale is yet content to have a respect to the benefits that god worketh and showeth the world thorough the powers and rulers of the world, & putteth that for either the only or the chief cause of his obedience, as he putteth it for the only or chief cause of God's commandment. In which kind of obedience seemeth not the greatest virtue, when a man obeyeth only for his own advantage/ but the very christian obedience is to obey specially for that god so commandeth, and not so to search and limit the cause of god's commandment/ as he may thereby take himself & give to other an easy bold occasion to dysobaye, resist, and rebel against their heads and rulers, pretending that they be not profitable.  
This thing meaneth Tyndale as it appeareth by his words here in the cause of his obedience, to the powers and rulers of the world/ & as it appeareth in divers other places of his works and Luther his masters to. But god all though he will that the governors and rulers of the world should be good and profitable to the people/ yet will he not that the people shall measure the duty of their obedience by the only rule and measure of their own profit and commodity/ but that they shall obey their princes and other rulers and governors, because that they be their governors and rulers, and because that god hath so commanded. For if they may measure their obedience by the measure of their own profit as Tyndale telleth us: they shall soon seek occasion of sedition, and thereof do themself also more harm in one day than should their ruler in many years, all were he right unprofitable in deed/ as appeared by the uplandysshe Lutherans in almain, which measuring their obedience by Tyndal's rule given them before by Tyndal's master/ became all unruly and disobeyed and rebelled against their rulers, and thereby disobeyed god's commandment, and brought thereby the vengeance of god upon their own heads, to the slaughter of above four score thousand of them in one summer, & the remnant the worse entreated ever sins/ and that hath made Luther and Tyndale a little to retreat sins and set a new gloze thereto that will but shrewdly serve them as I shall show you when I come to the place hereafter in his book.   

Tyndall.  
And when he is commanded to love his neighbour as himself/ ●e serch●●● that his neighbour is created of god and bought with Crys●es blood, and so forth.   

More.  
Loo this is very lovingly spoken, & he saith very well/ and I pray god that he be one of those spyrytuals that so doth, but surely many places in every book that he writeth seem clearly to declare that he hath another manner of spirit than such a spirit of love. And yet were it heard except the God'S commandment give us that warning/ else will it be somewhat herd for any man upon the other two causes by any search to perceive that he were in reason bound to love another aswell as himself though they may serve to love him right well.   

Tyndale.  
And therefore he loveth him out of his heart. 
Out of 〈◊〉 ●erte not in his he●●e.  And if he be evil forbeareth him and with all love and patience draweth him to good as elder brethren wait on the younger and serve them and suffer them/ and when they will not come they speak fair and flatter and give some gay thing and promise fair, and so draw them and smite them not/ but if they may in no wise be holp, refer the punishment to the father and mother, and so forth. And by these judgeth be all other laws o● god and understandeth the true use and meaning of them/ and by these understandeth he in the laws of man which are right and which tyranny.   

More.  
Useth Tyndale and his spiritual master this manes of love, this forbearing, and this manner of pacyens to ward the pope and the clergy, and toward princes and other temporal rulers? we se perdie thorough all their books in what lowly loving fashion they serve and suffer them, and how fair they speak, and how pleasantly they flatter all holy catholic christian people saving only their own sect, with as venomous words and as poison speech as the devil can devise them, with all the means they may to sow division and dissension and set the people in sedition/ & under colour of true faith to bring them in heresies and destroy both body and soul.  
But Tyndale would now that we should for the while forget all that he and his master writeth else where, and himself in many placies after in this same book/ and that we should only mark these holy loving words that he writeth here in his present prologue/ in which he saith that they which be spiritual do never smite their younger brethren, that is to say, such as be not in faith and virtue grown up as they be, nor will not with them come forward therein, but be evil and will be no better/ but the spyritualles as their elder brethren doth flatter them and promise fair and give them gay things, and so draweth them forward in grace/ and finally if that will not help them, than the spiritual elder brother referreth their punishment to the father and the mother, that is as he meaneth to all mighty god, for if he meant unto their rulers so it is all ready/ for none other hath authority to correct and punysse. And his mind he hath declared in that behalf in sundry placies/ that non man should in any wise pursue and punish any man specially for any heresy/ for he that pursueth any man is no spiritual man. I let pass here that after this way the world, all be it that it be bad enough all ready, would yet wax then mich worse/ and I pass over also that as well all wise men as all good men, and holy scripture also it self, is open and plain to the contrary.  
And I will for the while no more but ask of Tyndale whether he account the pope & the clergy and the temporal princes for men borne again and renewed with the spirit of god, and thereby spiritual or not. If he reckon them for such: then by his own rule they can and do very well judge all thing, and so should he then think that the things that they do be well done/ for he saith himself that the spirytualles do search the bottom of god's commandments and fulfil them gladly.  
Now if he say that they be not the spirituals, but such as Luther is and frere Huskyn and himself, & such other as so search the causes that they care not as Tyndale saith after, whither the pressed say mass in his gown or in his cope, and will as soon gape for sand as holy salt, and had as life be smeared with unhallowed butter as anointed with charmed oil, except men can tell them the causes which they say that no man can, and therefore they mock and jest thereat/ now if this their sort be as Tyndale saith the spiritual and thereby the elder brothern: then will we say to Tyndale and ask him why do not you Tyndale and your spiritual fellows according to your own words here, love out of your hearts the pope, the cardinals, the clergy, the princes, the people, and so forth, being as your younger brothern not yet borne again/ and why do you not forbear them with all love and patience & so forth, 
Tyndale taketh gre●●●●easu●e in often bringing in the●e words, And so forth.  and wait on them and serve them and suffer them and so forth/ and when they will not with you come forth, why do you not then speak them fair and flatter them and promise them fair and so forth, and so draw them forth and so forth. And if that for a●l this they will not come forth: why do you not then refer the punishment to the father and mother and smite them not/ but contrary to your own words use at your younger brothern to laugh them to scorn, to mock, to jest, to check, to chide, to brawl, & rybaldously to rail/ calling them apyshe, pevysshe, popish, jugglers, thieves, murderers, bloodsupers, tormentors, and traitors, Pylatys, Cayphaas, Herodies, Annaas, & Antecrystes, judaas, hypochrytes, mokenmongers, pryapystes, idolaters, horemaysters, and sodomites, abominable, shameless, stark mad, and faithless beasts, hangmen, martyr quellers, and christ killers, serpents, scorpions, dreamers, and very devils/ & finally with such venomous words and other malicious ways the worst that the devil and you devise together, bysely put forth your pain to sow debate, dissension, schisms, strife, and sedition/ and cause your spiritual people that is to wit the elder brothern borne again of the spirit, to rise and rebel against your younger brothern, but natural yet and not borne again/ and the tone part to smite & kill the t'other by thousands on a day, as ye have done in Almaigne/ providing always that yourselves the chyeff captains and authors of such sedition and rebellious bloodshed, gate up upon some hill in the mean while, and stand and look upon sure & safe a side half out of all gonshot● and come not at hand strokes in no wise, but serve for trompetours with the blast of your words and ungracious writings to kindle them & call upon and set them all a work/ and if it walk on your side then to gaude and glory, and if it go against you & your part go to wreck, then slynk away fro the field and make as ye came not there nor never intended harm nor meant any such matter/ or as your master did in Almaigne to put yourself out of suspicion, cry to the contrary part to kill them down hand smooth, whom your own words raised up and sinfully set a work.  
And lo thus hath Tyndale cunningly declared the great commandment of love, and by himself and his fellows as ye see so lovingly put in ure, that they would help the other part to all the mischief they might/ and would that on the other side what so ever they do themself be it never so mischievous, no man should once chide them nor give fowl words/ but in their devilish deeds forbear still & suffer them, and take them then ●s younger brothern little babies untaught, and give them fair words and pretty proper gear, ratylles & cokbelles and gay golden shone/ and if the wantoness will not learn yet, but bite & scratch their fellows/ beat not the babies yet in no wise, but go and tell their mother and so forth.  
And when Tyndale hath thus cunningly declared the great commandment of love, and hath so spiritually set it out to the show: then concludeth he well & worshipfully that by this commandment of love in such a wise way understanden, his spiritual sort judgeth all the laws of god, and understand the true use of them/ and by the same in likewise understand they all the laws of man which are right and which tyranny. For by this then understand that for the love that they bear to their own will/ every gloze that they give themself is the right meaning of the word of god, and all that all other holy men have written is but fantasies and false. And in men's law to let them beat other men for saying truth, were well ordained and right/ but any man to chide once any of them for a hundred heresies, that were utter wrong and no lawful law but plain tyranny.   

Tyndale.  
If god should command him to drink no wine as he commanded in the old testament, that the pressed should not when they ministered in the tem●●e and forbade diverse meats: the spiritual because ●e knoweth that man and ●uer all other creatures, and they his servants made to be at 〈…〉 that it is not commanded for the wine or meat it self that man 〈…〉 in bondage unto his own servant the inferior creature/ cea 〈…〉 the cause. And when he findeth it is to tame the flesh, and that 〈…〉 sober/ he obeyth gladly and yet not so supsticiously, that the time 〈…〉 he would not drink wine in way of a medycyn to recover his 〈…〉 vid ate of the hollowed breed, and as Moses for necessity left the 〈◊〉 of Israel uncircuncysed, and were yet thought to be in no worse ●a●e 〈◊〉 they that were circumcised, as the chyldern● that died within eight day● were 〈◊〉 t in as good case as they that were circumcised/ which ensamp●es might teach us many things if there were spirit in us.   

More.  
Now cometh he to those things which he taketh for indifferent/ that is to wy● of their nature neither good nor evil, but taking their goodness or their evil of commandment or prohibition and of the mind of the doer with circumstances of the deed/ & in these things he speaketh as one that would we should we●e that his high spiritual wisdom had a very deep insyghte in that he telleth us as a new strange tale, that never man had herd before that the inferior creatures be subgettes to man and not man to them.  
But now this truth● laboureth he to make a falls ground to byelde his lies upon. For by this he would have us ween that we were at liberty to construe and interpretate all commandments either of Crystes church or of Cristes' own mouth immedyate, after our own sweet will, when so ever ●e can find out any false gloze of the commandment to flatter and beguile ourself withal. 
Levitici. 1●.  As here if god should command him to drink no wine as he commanded in the old law while they ministered in the temple: he would anon search for the cause. And then he saith that he should find the cause to be for taming of the flesh and to keep him sober, and then for that cause he would obey the commandment gladly, but yet not so superstycyously but that in time of his disease he would drink wine to recover his health/ & thereof he layeth ensample of David & of Moses.  
But what availeth him all this tale. For we deny not but that the word and precept of god receiveth interpretation. But we say that the authority thereof lieth not in every man's head at adventure/ & that all though some things be plain and open enough, yet it is perilous for any man except certain revelation of god, to take himself for so far forth renewed with the spirit of god, that he boldly lean in such things to his own wit lest his will blind his wit/ but let us leanly therein unto the judgement of the old holy enterpretours passed, and special to the sense received of the hole catholic church, not the church of only elects which church no man can know but unto the catholic known church of all christian people save heretics/ which catholic church what so ever Tyndale say can never fall in damnable error.  
For if a man leave these ways and boldly cleave to a cause of his own searching: he is well likely to break the commandment.  
As here Tyndale presupposeth if god would himself forbedde all men wine upon certain days, or command them certain days to fast: here would Tyndale anon as a man spiritual ensearch the cause why god would commanded him so/ and then would he find that the cause were but only to tame the flesh and to keep men sober, & therefore would he obey it.  
But now by this fashion if god gave Tyndale a commandment whereof Tyndale could find no cause at all/ he would not do it at all.  
If our father Tyndale had been in paradise in the stead of our father Adam/ he should never have needed any serpent or woman either to tempt him to eat the apple of the tree of knowledge. For when god had forbed him the eating thereof upon pain of death, as he forbiddeth us lechery upon pain of damnation: then would he have searched for the cause of the commandment. And when his wit would have founden none because the flesh had there no need of taming: then would he have eaten on a good pace & have thought that god almighty had but played the wanton with him, and would not be angry with him for an apple/ and so would he by his own rule of searching have found out as much mischief as the woman and the serpent and the devil and all.  
And surely now to, by this spiritual rule of enserching of the cause of fasting and forbearing meat, and finding the cause to be none other but for taming of the flesh and soberness/ who so ever think himself to the synnies of the flesh not much inclined as some of nature are not, nor by moderate drinking of wine any thing disposed to drunkenness: shall interpret himself discharged of the commandment, and shall drink wine and shall break his fast at his pleasure/ or if he forbear wine or keep the fast he shall at the uttermost keep it but for a countenance, and as they write themselves in avoiding the slandering of such as have a week conscience and ween themselves bounden to the keeping thereof. And therefore when they have kept the fast in sight/ they shall not force to break all those fasts privily, where the week consciences of other simple souls are absent and no body by them, but such as are all spiritual and have a conscience strong enough to break the strong fast upon good friday without grudge of conscience at all. And afterward little & little they shall when they be suffered amend also and make strong in the lord the week consciences of their sick brethren, and make them break all the fasting days to, with laud and thank given to the lord that by his ele●●e preachers in these latter days of this blind world, that could not on fasting days find their meat/ hath now illumined their eyghen and given them light, by which they have founden they way in to the christian liberty of eating, drinking, and honest liking lechery, from the bondage and thraidom of all fasting days and all professed chastity.  
For this end we see that their spiritual doctrine hath all ready brought it in Saxony/ for there is now the lent all turned in to shroftyde. And there it well appeareth all though it were true that Tyndale saith, that fasting were of god ordained for none other cause but only to tame the flesh: yet was it need for the church to do as it hath done by the spirit of god, ordain and appoint certain common fas●yng days in which the people should fast together. For ell●● if there were no such/ the most part of the people which now in the common fasts do tame the flesh together by the commandment and laudable custom of the church of god● would find very few days therefore of their own mynde● and many not one thorough the hole year as ye now see it in Saxony, where they that were wont to fast many, fast now never a one.  
And surely if fasting were not profitable done of any other devotion but only served for taming of the flesh, and then the custom taken away of common fasting days, in which folk fast together in obedience of the commandment, & those common days taken away/ folk were only left to their own liberty and private secret conscience, to choose their fasting days theyr selfes, not of any other devotion but only for taming of their flesh, when themself feel it begin to boil: then many wedded men should need few fasting days to their pain, having their remedy so pleasant and so present always ready at hand, and then would many an honest maiden be ashamed to fast any day at all, lest she should seem thereby to give young men warning that she were wax warm and bid them if they will speed speak now.  
But Tyndale with his spiritual fellows are fallen in to this folly by the liking of their own lust, in favour whereof they sinfully study to find out false gloss, to be open gluttons without reproach/ and also with the praise of such people as their false doctrine hath corrupted and brought in a wrong belief, contrary to all doctrine of all the old holy doctors, and against all holy scripture, even the very gospel itself and the very words of christ, by which not only all christian people hitherto but also the jews have from the beginning been taught to believe, that man's fasting hath been pleasant to god for other causes than Tyndale would have it seem, that searcheth and seeketh only the means to break it.  
Tyndale and his master be wont to cry out upon the pope and upon all the clergy, for that they meddle philosophy with the things of god/ which is a thing that may in place be very well done, sith the wisdom of philosophy all that we find true therein, is the wisdom given of god, and may well do service to his other gifts of higher wisdom than that is. But Tyndale here in this place as it seemeth, doth lean unto the old natural philosophers all together. For as for abstinence to tame the flesh from intemperance and fowl lusts also, this was a thing that many philosophers did both teach and use. But as for fasting, that is another thing which god hath always among his faithful people had observed and kept, not only for that purpose, but also for a kind of payne● affliction, and punishment of the flesh for their sins and to put us in remembrance that we be now in the vale of teries and not in the hill of joy saving for the comfort of hope.  
And all be it that Tyndale be loath to here thereof, because he would not that any man should do true penance with putting himself to any pain for his own sins/ yet would god the contrary. And as he will that men for their synnies should be sorry in their hearts/ so would he that for the same cause the sorrow of their hearts should redound in to their bodies/ and that we should for the provocation of God's mercy, humble ourself before him/ and not only pray for forgiveness but also put our bodies to pain and affliction of our own self, & thereby to show how heavily we take it that we have offended him.  
And to th'intent that we should well know that fasting not only for taming of the flesh, but also for pain to be taken for our synnies, was pleasant unto him: 
Levit. 23. Zachar. 8.  he taught his people by his prophets that they should fast, and appointed them certain days.  
It appeareth also that fasting was & is pleasant unto god, when men do for devotion to god not only forbear their pleasure, but also part of their necessary sustynauns, in occupying the time of usual feeding of the flesh about the plenteous nourishing & spiritual pampering of the soul.  
Also unto the obtaining of great spiritual gifts of god & high revelations, how special a thing fasting is/ both our saviour declareth him self in the gospel of Matthew, 
Matth. 17.  where he saith that that kind of devils which he did cast out of the child is not cast out but by prayer & fasting.  
And of all these things we have in holy saints lives so many examples, that it were over long to rehearse them. But for as much as we see well that Tyndale maketh but mokkies of all such matters, and all their holy revelations and miracles taketh but for trifles: we shall send him to look better upon the good books which himself hath evil & of evil purpose translated, the books I mean of the holy scripture itself. For therein shall he see that fasting serveth not only to tame the flesh/ but for all these good uses also that we have spoken of before, and yet for many other more. And there shall he specially see the thing that he is most loath to let you see/ that fasting and other bodily affliction either taken by commandment of god and his church, or willingly taken of our own good mind done for our synnies, done in true faith and devotion with purpose of amendment, is one of the very special things that obtain remission of the sin, release of the more pain, with getting greater grace & increase of God's favour/ which thing is the same that he & his fellows do so sore oppugn, that the whole church of christ priests and lay men both, call satisfaction/ not meaning that we can do penance enough for our sins, nor that we could do any thing thereof at all without help of grace, nor that all that we can do could be wurth a fly to heavenward without Crystes passion/ but that with help of grace and merits of Crystes passion, our good works well wrought, help to get remission and purchase us pardon and release of pain, and may well be done for that intent, and be by god ordained to serve us to that intent/ and for that cause be they by the church called satisfaction, for the devour that we should do to punish at the full our offences ourself, that god thereby the rather moved with mercy should withdraw his great heavy punishment, which else he shall cause to be done unto us himself, and not so sore if we judge and amend our fawtes ourself/ according to the words of the blessed apostle to the Corynthyes: 
1. Cor. 11  If we judged ourselves, we should not be judged of our lord. And surely if we judge ourself truly, we shallbe content to punish ourself.  
And that fasting is one of the good works that bysyde other good & great godly purpose serveth for satisfaction of sin & procuring of remission, grace, and pardon/ & that it serveth not only for the taming of the flesh as Tyndale here would have it seem: ye shall see to manifestly proved by many plain placies in every part of scripture.  
first the fasts that Moses fasted first for the law, and after for the sin of the people and the sin of Aaron also/ were thief fasts for nothing but for to tame his flesh.  
Item in xxi chapter of the third book of kings when Achab had herd these words, he tore his garmentis and put on his body a shirt of here, he fasted and slept in a sack, and went hanging his heed low done/ and our lord said to Helyas Thesbites, hast thou not seen how Achab hath humbled him before me? And therefore because he hath humbled himself for my sake, I will bring no evil in duting his life. Doth it not manifestly appear by these words that king Achab fasted not for taming of his flesh t● keep it from wildness, but he fasted for the self same cause for which he were here and slept in a sack, that is to wit to humble himself afore the face of god, and to do penance in punishing himself for his sin to move thereby almighty god to mercy, & to the withdrawing of his high punishment, which else he feared would fall upon his heed/ which punishment god at the respect of the kings humble penance and pain of fasting and other affliction willingly taken by himself, did mercifully withdraw from him, so that in all his days he suffered him to feel no part thereof.  
And so may ye see this place of scripture evident & plain against Tyndale, and that very repentance requireth of the repentant person not only taming of the flesh against the sin immynent or to come, but also punishment by fasting and other affliction for the sin all ready done.  
And now christ hath to christian men promised of our sins forgiveness, and of our pain release by virtue of his pain/ but this meaneth he to them that set not their own sins at so light after his great kindness showed, but that their own self show by their own wylf●ll punishment worthy to suffer pain also themself therefore, and then his pain hath given their pain the life that maketh it quick and available, not intending yet that himself so should take pain that the sinners themself should sin at their pleasure and be saved all with ease as Tyndale & Luther would make us ween. For that were the way to make men wanton and wax very bold in sin.  
furthermore in the first book of Esdras and the viii chapter it is written thus in the person of the people: we have fasted and prayed to god for this (that is to wit for help against our enymyes, & it is comen prosperously to pass.  
ye may here clearly see this pestilent opinion of Tyndale with few words confuted. For this fast was not for taming of the flesh, but for avoiding of their pa●ell.  
Again in the second book of Esdras and the first chapter thus said Nehemias: when I had herd such tidings, that is to wit how the walls of Jerusalem were thrown done, the yates burnt, and the children of Israel in great affliction and misery: I sat down and wept and mourned many days, I fasted also and prayed afore the face of the god of heaven.  
Lo this fast was not for to tame the flesh/ for the man was in heaviness far from such wanton things: but he fasted as he wept and mourned, to move god to mercy.  
Also the great pressed of god Eliachym saith in the four of judith: Know ye that our lord shall hear your prayers if ye continue in fasting and praying in the sight of him,  
I suppose no man is of so simple wit & understanding, but he may at the bare rehearsal of this brief text well perceive that Eliachim did not esteem fasting as Tyndale doth, neither took it not only for a taming of the flesh, but for a mean also to purchase grace with remission & pardon, and also to obtain aid and help of god in that great necessity.  
Is not the four of Hester also clean contrary to the doctrine of these devilish preachers of fleshly liberty: Go and assemble (saith that good queen) all the jews that thou findest in Susan, and pray ye for me. Eat ye not neither drink not in iii days and iii nights. And I likewise will fast with my maidens.  
would she that they should forbear meet and drink to the intent that by their fasting they might tame her flesh? nay nor for the taming of their own neither. But that by their devout fasting and her maidens and her own/ they might provoke our lord to pyty● them and preserve them from that immynent apparel that they were then all in.  
what saith Toby? Prayer (saith he) joined with fasting is good. He saith not this only for y●ng lusty folk for taming of their flesh in avoiding of intemperance, for good christian fasting goeth sometime far above the natural temperance/ but he teacheth all men that may without harm to join with prayer that pain of fasting, as a thing pleasant unto god in such wise as the prayer is/ and it is a secret inward effectual prayer when the pain of all the body repenting and punishing the sin, crieth to god for mercy with voice of the mouth.  
In the xxxiiii chapyter of Ecclesiasticus it is written: The man that fasteth for his sins and again commyteth the self same sins, what availeth him this humility.  
whereby it is well understanden that he which fasteth & amendeth himself/ his fast auay●eth and is profitable. And wherefore? not only for taming of his flesh for that may be tame enough and yet the man bad enough but it availeth for remission of sin and for merit in heaven. For as holy saint austin saith: To say that the fast of a christian man shall have no reward in heaven is not the opinion of a true christian man, but of an heretic.  
The prophet johel in the second chapter: And therefore now saith the lord turn to me with all your heart in fasting, weeping, and weyling. tear your hearts & not your garments, and so forth.  
Lo here the prophet exhorteth to fasting as he doth to hearty morning and weeping, not for a countenance of sorrow, but to be sorrowful & to take pain in deed/ not in their clothes where they feel it not, but in their bodies and inwardly in their hearts where they feel it thoroughly/ so that they may thereby not only tame their flesh, but also turn again to god, that he may take pity upon them and turn again to them.  
Reed we not in the third chapiter of the prophet jonas, that god saying the ninivites chastise and punish themself with fasting and other afflictions voluntaryly done unto themself/ did mercifully take quite away the great and grievous punishment that was at hand ordained by himself for their sins and offences? wherefore did they fast? for to tame their flesh as Tyndale saith? Nay/ they fasted and did penance for their sins, & therewith purchased pardon which Tyndale will not perceive.  
I could here allege unto you christian readers other te●tes out of the holy prophets and other places of scripture/ as the first chapter of johel, the ix of Danyel, the xxxvi of Hyeremy, the twenty of judicum, with an hundredth places more very strong for us in this matter of fasting/ but these few may seem to many for a thing so manifest and clear. How be it I will allege unto Tyndale the word●s of our saviour himself written in the xvii of Matthew, where he saith: This kind of devils is not cast out but by prayer and fasting. The holy evangelist Luke in the xiiii chapter of the apostles acts writeth thus: when they had ordaineth them priests in every church and had prayed and fasted/ they commended them to the lord in whom they believed.  
Here may ye clearly see good christian reder, that the holy and blessed apostle Paul with many other more/ did not fast in this place for the subduing of the flesh and taming of bodily lusts. For they fasted here for other folk, that is to wit for the priests to whom they had given holy orders, and for the people whom they had committed unto their charge/ that god for their devout prayers and fasting should give increase of his grace and favour among them  
Finally what will Tyndale say to the words that are written in the vi of Matthew, and spoken by the mouth of our saviour jesus christ, where he saith: when ye fast make not yourself sad like hypocrites, for they waste out their faces to the intent it might be perceived that they fast. Forsooth I say unto you they have their reward all ready. But when thou fastest anoint thy head and wash thy face, that it appear not unto men that thou fastest but unto thy father which is in secret. And thy father that seeth in secret, shall reward the openly.  
Lo doth not our lord here promise to reward all them that for no desire of man's praise or itch of vain glory, but of mere humility & true repentance of heart punish their body with fasting. which one place being so plain open & manifest for the merit of fasting though it might have been more than sufficient to confound Tyndale and his master Luther with all their scholars: yet have I been therein the longer and have spoken of this matter somewhat the more at large, for the manifestation of their great blindness, and as it seemeth malice to men's soul/ and for the comfort of them that hitherto have had the mind to punish the flesh with fasting, that they do not hereafter as unthrifts have in Almaigne done all ready, leave of their devotion to god for the fond babbling of such sensual here tykes. For if Tyndale will say that yet all this was no thing but to tame the flesh, that the men might pray the more quietly without rebellious motions of the flesh/ what so ever he shall say therein consider the placies and his words together, and ye shall find all his process the●●● a fair tale of a tub. For all be it that christ fas●ed fou●●● days and after hungered/ yet whither Moses' hungere● in his forty days or not we be not very sure. 
〈◊〉  And it seme●● well that he did, for he would not of likelihood have told it for any great thing that he fasted for the sin of Aron, & also for the sin of the people so straightly forty days that in the while he neither eat nor drank/ if he never had in the while been neither an hungered nor a thirst.  
How be it if Tyndale will bring all these fasts in question: yet of the Ninevites & the other above rehearsed the●e is no manner of doubt but that they fasted in hunger & thy●●●●. And it were in deed a mad thing to think that whe● they went about to punish their synnies and humble themself before the face of god with fasting/ they fasted but till they were a hungered and then gate them to brekfaste. If he will say that the pain of the fasting was only to came their flesh that they should not sin, he can not so say/ for it appeareth that they did it willingly as well for their sins before passed as for divers other causes. If he will say that there was difference between the repenting in the old law and the new, and that there was cause why they should punish their sins themself and not we, because christ hath now done penance for our synnies and had not at that time so done for theirs: it will not serve him, both because divers of the authorities for fasting be alleged in the new law, and also because the jews had the profit of Crystes passion by their faith that it was to come & should be done, as we have by the faith that it is passed and all ready done/ and their repentance and our repentance were like, saving our privilege of more abundant grace & pardon by the sacrament of penance which Tyndale goeth about to destroy. If he will say that the fasting serveth but to keep the mind calm and quiet in prayer, from all motions of fleshly lu●●es that else might trouble the mind: to this I say that the hunger itself may trouble the mind and make it less quiet, then if the flesh were in temperate rest without it. And over this his answer in that point will not serve, sith it appeareth well by the circumstances in many of the places before touched, that many which fasted were not in such ease of heart nor lust of body, that their prayers were at that time likely to be letted with voluptuous wanton minds. wherefore let Tyndale say what he will: ye shall find for troth that besides the taming of the body, fasting and our pain taken therein pleaseth god done with devotion, and serveth us for obtaining many and great gifts of grace.  
Nay saith Tyndale in his book of obedience as for pain taking, god is no tyrant/ and therefore rejoiceth not in our pain, but pitieth us/ and as it were mornyth with us and would we should have n●ne, saving that like a good surgeon he putteth pain of tribulation unto the sores of our sin/ because the sin can not otherwise be rubbed out of the flesh and cured.  
we say not neither that god rejoiceth in our pain as a tyrant, all be it that Luther and Tyndale would have us take him for such one as had more tyrannous delight in our pain, than ever had any tyrant/ when they by the taking away of man's free will would make us ween that god alone worketh all our sin, and then damneth his creatures in perpetual torments for his own deed.  
But we say that god rejoiceth & delighteth in the love of man's heart, when he findeth it such as the man inwardly delighteth, & in his heart owtwardly to let the love of his heart so redounded in to the body, that he gladly by fasting & other affliction putteth the body to pain for God's sake/ and yet thinketh for all that, that in comparison of his duty all that is much less than right nought.  
we say also that god rejoiceth and delighteth in justice/ & for that cause he delighteth to see a man so delight in the same, & to take his sin so sorrowfully that he is content of him self by fasting and other affliction willingly to put himself to pain therefore. And I say that if god had not this delight which is not a tyrannou●e but a good and godly delight/ else would he put unto man no pain for sin at all. For it is plain false that god doth it for necessity of driving the sin out of the flesh as Tyndale saith he doth, because that otherwise it can not be cured. For it is questyonlesse that god can otherwise drive the sin hour of the flesh, and by other means cure it if it so pleased him/ & so would he saving for his godly delight in justice which he loveth to see man follow by fasting and other penances/ & which delight of following gods pleasure therein, Tyndale in man by withdrawing of penaus clean goeth about to destroy.  
Now where Tyndale as a spiritual ensercher of the cause of every commandment of god, did in reproving the ●●●perstycyouse manner of them, that without such a de●e s●yrytuall search do keep God's commandment strayghte●● bring in the examples of david and his company which for necessity did eat of the offered hallowed breed whereof by the law he should not, and of Moses also leaving the children contrary to the commandment of god xl year uncircumcised in desert/ he endeth that matter with this great weighty word: These ensamples might teach us many things if th●●● were spirit in us.  
what things the evil spirit that inspirith Tyndale teacheth him I can not tell. But of any good spirit he learneth no ferther in these ensamples, then that in necessity Moses the leader of the people under god, and being also the p●cest of god dispensed with the people in desert in delaying the circumcision for apparel of sudden travel there upon ●yll they should come where they might rest upon it. 
1. Reg●●. ●1  And that Achimelech the pressed in like wise for necessity dispensed with david and his servants, that they might eat of offered hallowed breed/ and yet with great difficulty, but if they were clean from any late commyxcyon and carnal knowledge of their wifes. And of that point might Tyndale if he had a good sprite in him/ learn at the lest wise one thing against the boldness of his wedded harlots monks and freres, that from their filthy lechery go so boldly not to the hallowed breed, but to the body of god in form of breed. But Tyndales sprite techeth●hym to be bold therein, and to ●yd every frere boldly break his vow and the commandment without any necessity or dispensation at all/ saying that freres may no more live without nuns then david might without meat.   

Tyndale.  
And likewise of the holy day, he knoweth that the day is savaunt unto man/ and therefore when he findeth, hat● it is done because he s●olde not be let from hearing the word of god, be obeyth gladly/ and yet not so superstycyously, that he would not ●elpe his neighbour on the holy day let the sermon alone for ●●●●ay●or that he would not work on the holy day need requiring it, at such ●yne as men ●e not wont to be at church.   

More.  
Here Tyndale teacheth us high spiritual doctrine, that christian men should not be to superstycyously holy on the holy day/ weening that they might do no bodily work for necessity. But the people for aught that I see/ know the well enough and more to. But yet to make them the more bold: he teacheth them that the holy day is servant unto man, that he may therefore be bold upon the holy day as upon his own servant to use it as it please him.  
But yet all be it that christ said unto the jews that the son of man is master and lord even over the sabooeh day, to use it as himself list, which never listed to use it but to the best: yet can I not well see that Tyndale is in such wise master and lord of the sabbooth day, nor no man else, 
Mar. 2  that he may use it as his man, though it was of god institute for man and not man for it/ that is to wit for the spiritual benefit and profit of man as our saviour saith also himself. But yet he calleth it not servant unto man as Tyndale calleth it. 
Exodi. 1. ●  For the scripture saith that god hath sanctified the sabbooth day unto himself.  
And that was the cause why that Criste showed unto the jews that himself was lord of the sabbat day, because he would that they should thereby know that he was very god/ sith that they had learned by scripture that the sabbat day was sanctified only to god himself for ma●nys profit and no man lord thereof but only god. A governor of people is made for the people and not the people for the governor/ and yet is there no man among the people wont to call the governor his man, but himself rather the governors man. The very manhood of our saviour himself was to some purpose ordained for mankind, as the incarnation of his godhead was ordained for man/ but yet useth no wise man to call christ his servant, all be it himself of his meekness did morethens serve us. But we will not much stykke with Tyndale for a word somewhat wrested a wry/ so that we wist he meant no harm thereby.  
But I fereme more of his meaning, lest he would bring holy days and working days all in one case. For as for doing our neighbour good, and also the working for our own necessity/ the necessity may be such that the church denieth it not. But who so do interpret his necessity over large, or defer unto the holy day the worldly works which he might and should have done upon the working day before, or may as well do it after, and yet will work it on the holy day, and thereby will for his part bring it in custom to withdraw the reverens from the holy day & make working day thereof: this man hath in my mind much need to consider. Salphat, which for like using of the holy day, 
Nun. ●5  gathering wood on the holy day that he might have done on the working day/ was by gods own judgement stoned unto death.  
And I like Tyndale in this matter the worse, both for his words in his other books, and for the custom of his sect now grown in Germany, and also for the only cause that he findeth out here for the keeping of the holy day, of which he putteth no more but the only hearing of the word of god/ so that by the cause which he findeth out, a christian man that were either in desert or among infidels where he could hear no preaching, should have no more respect unto christmas day or Ester day, or whytesontyde, to keep them for holy days himself, than the worst day in the year, or them would a turk himself. And this is his high spiritual doctrine concerning the holy day.   

Tyndale.  
And so thorough out all la●es, and even likewise in all ceremonies and sacraments/ be searcheth the significations and will not serve the visible things. It is as good to him that the pres●e say mass in his gown as in his other apparel, if they teach him not somewhat, and that his soul be edified thereby. And as soon will he gape●while thou puttest sand as holy salt in his mouth, if thou show him no reason thereof/ he had as seyffe be smeared with unhallowed butter as anointed with uncharmed oil, if his soul be not taught to understand somewhat at thereby and so forth.   

More.  
Lo good christian reader this holy spiritual man, at last I wist well would somewhat show himself, what ghostly spirit inspireth him. For here you see for all his holy salutation at the beginning, with gay words of grace & light and faith and fervent love: he bloweth and blustreth out at last his abominable blasphemy against the blessed sacraments of christ, and like the devils ape maketh mocks and mows at the holy ceremonies, that the spirit of god hath so many hundred years taught his holy catholic church.  
And here perceive yet the false wiliness of the devil in uttering of his dreggys' and poisoned draft. He covereth his cup a little and shadoweth the colour of his enuenemed wine, that it may be drunken down greedily ere the apparel be perceived. For he maketh here as though he found no fault, but in that the significations of the sacraments be not opened and declared unto the people, as though if that were done he were content/ and that he mocketh not the sacraments but the ministers that openeth not the bytokenynges thereof.  
But I shall first show you that he playeth the devils dysor even in this point, all though he meant no ferther/ & then shall I farther show you what mischief he meaneth more, and prove it you by express words of his own.  
first I say it is a lewd and a knavysshe railing upon the sacraments of our saviour christ, to liken and compare them in any manner wise unto such scornful things, as the anointing with holy oil unto butter smeryuge, with other such like knavish toys which no wretch would do but such as hath the very name of the holy sacraments in hatereth and despite.  
Now where he sayeth that his holy spiritual sort will always so vyllanousely esteem the sacraments, but if men tell them the reasons and bytokenynges of them to the edifying of their souls: it will be great business and much a do to edify and build up the souls of such a sort, which the devil hath by the blast of his mouth thrown down so deep and frusshed all to fytters. But I pray god to whom nothing is impossible/ to byeld them once again upon the rokke of his faith, from which they show themself so far fallen down that they be full unlikely to rise. For truly if they stood thereupon their hearts would abhor to utter such frantic fantasies. For as touching the significations and bytokenynges of the blessed sacraments, the lack of knowledge whereof Tyndale would make seem a sufficient cause of his villainous blasphemy: all good people that have the use of reason and come to these sacraments with good devotion, be taught and do think and conceive in their hearts, that god was incarnate and borne god and man for our salvation, and suffered his passion, and died for our redemption, and that we were redeemed to heaven with his blessed blood, and that without him we should never have been saved but had utterly lost heaven by the sin of Adam/ and for this cause we call him our saviour and believe that he hath promised us that if we be crystened and keep his holy commandments, and for the breaking be sorry and turn again by penance/ god will bring us to heaven that he hath promised us and bought us to. And they believe th●● he hath ordained here holy sacraments, which he will that we shall receive with reverence, and that every man with those sensible sacraments except the fault be in himself, receiveth some inward grace & aid of god by the merits of Crystes passion and by his holy promise and ordinauns/ so that unto all good christian men the outward sensible signs in all the sacraments and holy ceremonies of Christ's church, by one general and comen signification of them all, bytoken and do signify and that right effectually, an inward secret gift and inspiration of grace ●ffused in to the soul with the receiving of that holy sacrament by the holy spirit of god.  
This comen signification of the sacraments have all the comenaltye of christian people/ & they believe not only that the sacraments be tokens of such grace and do signify it, but also be in some manner wise a mean to come to the getting thereof, because god hath so ordained.  
But unto Tyndale & his holy spiritual sort, this gear is yet to groce for their subtle thin wits.  
For that all christian people have this faith and signification of sacraments, Tyndale can not deny them/ but if he list to bylye them.  
But why trow you can not this signification serve. Tyndale? verily because he believeth it not/ for he believeth not that any ceremony or sacrament either is in the work thereof any mean to get any grace at all. And in almost all the sacraments he plainly saith that they neither cause any grace nor any grace do signify, nor be no sacraments at all/ as by his own words I shall hereafter show you.  
But in the mean while for as much as in his preface here he maketh as though he cared but for the declaration of the tokens and sensible signs of the sacraments and ceremonies: I have showed him the great and chief signification of all/ that is to wit that they betoken the insensible grace that god giveth them in to the soul thorough the merits of Crystes holy passion. And this is the very chief signification that all holy doctors note & mark in the sacraments/ as appeareth by the definitions that in their books they give thereunto.  
But now will not Tyndale set a straw the more by the anointing with holy oil/ than by smering with unhallowed butter, but if men tell him some further thing thereby that may edify his soul and make it better. For as for grace edyfyeth not his soul/ for god byeldeth not so fast therewith as himself helpeth the devil to pull it down again and cast it quite away, so that it is never the better. And therefore he will that his holy spiritual sort shall set all the holy ceremonies and sacraments at nought, but if men can tell them what other special thing is meant by the water of baptism, and by the oil in confirmation and eneyling, and by the ceremonies of the mass, and by the salt, and by the ashes, and by the holy water, & by the blessing of all such manner of things/ upon all which for the meanwhyle till all this be told & taught him, he thinketh that it becometh him well against Christ's holy sacraments to jest and mokke and mow and rail and skofe and rially play the rybawld resembling the salt to sand and the holy oil to smering of some bareld butter. Ah blasphemous best to whose roaring and lowing no good christian man can with out heaviness of heart give ere.  
Now can men and do also for the more part of these things give good causes and plain open reasons, both of the significations and of the spiritual profit and bodily both. And if that of any such sacraments or ceremonies given of old by god unto his blessed apostles, and by them delivered unto his church, and therein ever sins fro hand to hand continued/ it hath pleased the spirit to let his people have and enjoy the profit without declaration of the special betokening, other than the secret grace gyvyn than therein: is not Tyndale ween ye well over seen to mock the sacrament and refuse the grace, because god will not make him so secret of his counsel as to tell him why he took such an outward sign rather than such an other/ and than ask god almighty why he would rather have used for a ceremony salt than sand while sand is so good a scorer, and why rather ashes then earth sin man was made of earth and not of ashes, and why in baptism rather water then wine while wine will wash as clean, & why rather oil than butter while the tone will sinere aswell as the other will anoint, and then why rather an hallowed candle then an unholowed torch that will give more light, and finally why any bodily ceremonies or sacraments at all, about grace to be given to the spiritual soul that god might aswell do without/ and if god list not to make Tyndale an answer and tell him all this gear: then will he like a spiritual man set all such bodily ceremonies & sacraments at nought/ and say god what he will, Tindale will gloze his text as it please him, and then believe as he list who shall let him.  
when our lord in the old testament describe so seriously all the apparel of the priests/ did he tell the people therewith all the causes why. 
Exodi. 28  Of sum we see that he did, as why he would not have Aaron ascend unto the awlter by degrees But of all his apparel, 
Exodi. 2●. Exodi. 26. ●, 27. ●euiti●i. 16. Exodi. 29  and all the fashion of the tabernacle, and the awlter, and the arch of the testament, and the ceremonies of the expiation or purging of the tabernacle, and sanctyfyeng of all the vessels, and consecrating of the priests with the rites and ceremonies of all their sacrifice: did god I say tell the people what all the outward ceremonies fygnyfyed? nay, nor what signification had the sacrament of cyrcunsycyon neither, other then that who so observed it not among them should fall in his indignation and thereby perysshe● and who so fulfilled it should be in his favour and ascribed thereby in to the number of his elect and peculiar chosen people. But why he rather willed them to have the mark and token of circumcision than an other, or why that in the tabernacle, arch, and awlter, apparel, sanctyfyeng, and sacrifice, our lord chose those outward signs and fashions that are written in Exodo, Numeri, and Leuitico before other, or what he signified and meant by every of the same: that I see not that god taught the people/ and yet had they thank for the keeping, and should have been shent for the breaking.  
Now if our spiritual father Tyndale had been there, that in every commandment will never cease searching till he come to the very bottom and so judgeth all thing/ when he should in all those things have searched and sought and cold find few things other than allegories, of which diverse men diversly divine, and all which he little setteth by, and saith they prove nothing/ and the very causes and significations he cold not have founden though he would have mused out his brain: then would he not have set a ry●●he by all that god had devised nor would have kept it at all, lest he being so spiritual should have served as he saith visible things. Is neither a wise work of Tyndale.  
But he will happily say that in the old law this was less matter/ for that was the law that was all in shawdoes and darkness of figures. But now in the law of light in which the veil is taken away and all set open: Tyndale can not abide it to be ignorant of any sacrament or cerymonye of any thing set thereby, but if he search and find the uttermost signification thereof. Surely as lightsome as it is, and as open as all thing is now that the veil of the temple is withdrawn: yet will not Tyndale find out the proper causes and significations of these sacraments and ceremonies of the old law, this seven year seventeen times told.  
But go me to the new law & to those sacraments which Tyndale agreeth for sacraments, which be only twain, baptism and the sacrament of the altar/ in which though he be content to call them sacraments, yet hath he dyversefull erroneous opinions and very false faiths. But begin therefore as I said at baptism, when our saviour showed unto Nichodemus that except a man were borne again of water and the spyryto, 
I●●an. ●  he cold not enter in to the kingdom of heaven: he told him there the necessity of baptism, but not the proper signification of the water why it pleased god to put it for the sacrament, by which we should enter in to heaven. Nor when he sent his disciples to go forth and baptize: he showed them not as far forth as the gospel telleth, for what proper signification god set the water in that sacrament before any other thing/ but only showed them that so he would it should be, & bade them go show it and do it. Nor I find not that in their baptizing, they showed unto the people that thing, that because water washeth and cleanseth, therefore god had appointed it unto the sacrament that washeth and cleanseth our souls. And yet who so shall say that the water hath for that cause a convenient similitude for the matter/ shall say very well. And he shall also say well, that will say as doth the holy apostle Paul, 
Co●●s. 2  where he likeneth the baptism to a kind of burying with our lord in his sepulchre, and the rising out thereof to a kind and manner of rising again with our lord in his resurrection in to a new manner & kind of clean life. And when he showeth that the breed is made one of many greynes or corns, and the wine made one of many grapes: he took a very convenient allegory and similitude and signification where upon he might show that all we christian people that are made pertycypant of that holy breed and that holy wine, changed and turned in cryst● holy flesh and blood (of which twain every one is ever more with the other) ought of many men to be made as one and in christ and with Cryst our head, encorporate all in one mystical body.  
But yet though these things be marvelously well said and other things more both have been and may be founden, that may be well alleged for good and convenient significations of those two sacraments: yet doth not the apostle tell us that those significations be the very things and the only properties for which god appointed those outward signs of water in the tone sacrament and breed and wine in the t'other before all other ●ensyble things, of which he might have made the outward signs of those sacraments if it had liked him. But as the high knowledge of god for saw all those properties that have been founden, and all that any man cold find further therein: so saw he many more peradventure which no man hath founden yet, and whereof he hath made no man of his counsel/ no more than why he would have any visible token at all in the thing which he cold have pe●fytlydone without them and in many persons hath so done and doth.  
And therefore Tyndale taketh and evil way to stick upon that poyute so stiffly, that he letteth not with open blasphemy to say that he had as leave sand as holy salt, and be smeared with unhallowed better as anointed with the holy chrism, which he calleth charmed oil, because god will not show him every special thing that they signify beside the general signification of invisible grace, for that is commonly taught all ready, and every special signification that the scripture expresseth is openly preached also. And bys●des that, such significations as are not there expressed & may seem convenient for them, be both taught and written. what will Tyndale ask more?  
But no reason can content him/ for he saith plainly, that who so ever do not understand all the sygnyfications of all the outward signs in the sacraments: it were as good to leave the sacraments unmynystred unto him as ministered. where upon it followeth whereso ever at an Ester the people should be houseled, all be it that they be taught and do believe that in the form of breed is the very holy body of our saviour christ himself, and that if they receive him with unbylyef out of hope or out of charity, and be not in peace and christian love with all people, or ●ntende to keep still & continue in any deadly sin, they receive their housel to their harm and apparel of damnation/ and if they receive it the contrary wise, they shall re●eyue of god great spiritual grace therewith, thorough god's holy ordinance by the merits of Crystes passion/ and so have given them such good counsel and exhortation on farther as the poor pressed can: yet thinketh Tyndale that except he tell them ferther other significations of the sacrament, the people were as good unhowseled as houseled. But god be thanketh he is either deceived or lieth.  
Now followeth it also that if the sacrament were as good unmynistred as ministered to who so ever is not taught the proper significations of the outward token in the sacrament, as Tyndale here under a blasphemous jesting fashion telleth us: then followeth it I say that there was never child christened sins christendom first began, but that it had been as good to have left it unchristened, and never to have let water touch it, because it could not be taught what the water signified. And let him say what he will, but how so ever he cover and colour it for the while/ surely so would he have it. For while he goth about to give all our salvation to faith alone, and to take all grace & all merit utterly from all outward works, and yet seeth that he may not boldly at the beginning utterly despise baptism nor the blessed sacrament of the altar: he would go first as near it as he may. And therefore rejecting the remanant by and by/ he suffereth them twain to tarry for the while. But he will have them serve but for bare signs & tokens, and saith that they profit nothing, but only by the declaration of their significations. And thereby meaneth he first that where so ever occasion of such declaration faileth: there the sacrament should serve of nought. And so ye see that as for children he would have none baptized in deed/ and that thing once obtained, within a while after no more he would no men neither.  
Lo thus ye see to what a devilish end Tyndals' tale cometh, with his rebauldouse railing upon the sacraments, all though he meant no worse than he maketh for here in his preface/ in which he would peradventure seem to mean none other, but that the sacraments could serve of nought, except their proper significations were declared and taught to them that receive them, other significations or otherwise declared than they have been wont these many hundred years to be. wherein if he meant but so/ yet have I showed you many fest that he hath a very frantyke folly therein.  
But to th'intent that ye shall not be so deceived by him: I shall show you farther that he meaneth yet much worse/ & that he meaneth utterly as he plainly saith/ that of the vii holy sacraments five be none at all, & that thoder twain be nothing fruitful neither. And ye shall farther well perceive, that Tyndale himself in neither nother of the twain, that is to wit neither in baptism nor in the sacrament of the altar/ doth believe a right. For the clear perceiving of all which things/ I shall rehearse you his own words written in diverse places of his abominable book of obedience. And first will we speak of these five which he saith be no sacraments at all/ that is to wit confirmation, penance, order, matrimony, and annealing.   

Tyndale.  
That they call confirmation, the people call byshopping. They think that if the bishop butter the child in the forehead, that than it is safe.   

More.  
If I should here call Tyndale by another name, it were no nyk name at all/ and yet would there some than say, that it were not honest so to do/ & this will some such folk say, as in the vyllanouse words of his spoken by this blessed sacrament, will find no fault at all. But me seemeth surely that at the first hearing of such a shamell word spoken by the mouth of such a shameless heretic by this holy sacrament of christ: the hole christian company present, should not be able to contain themself from calling him knave all with one voice at once.  
Now where as there be for the sacrament both of confirmation & of holy orders, open & manifest places in holy scripture, 
Actuum .8 Hebre. 6 2. Timoth. 1  aswell in the acts of the apostles as in the pistles of saint Paul/ by which placies it appeareth plainly that by the apostles hands laid upon them which were before baptized, they had the holy ghost given in them/ and by thandes of saint Paul laid upon Tymothee in making him priest, he received of god a special grace with that holy order/ and likewise the deacons by the putting of the apostles hands upon them in the giving them that order: 
Act●. 6  Tyndale telleth us in his book of obedience that all this is nothing, and that the laying of the apostles hands upon them was but a manner of the country, as a man putteth his hand here upon a boy's head and stroketh it when he calleth him good son. were not the time well lost that were spent upon Tyndale in alleging holy scripture to him, that can find in his heart thus to give it a mokke in stead of an answer? he saith that the scripture and the sacraments be not both of one authority/ but he maketh them both a like when he mocketh them both a like.  
Of matrimony.   

Tyndale.  
matrimony (saith he) was ordained of god for an of●yce, wherein the husband serveth the wife, and the wife the husband. It is ordained for a remedy and to increase the world, and not to signify any promise that ever I herd or red of in the scripture It hath a promise that we sin not in that state, if a man take his wife as God's gift, and the woman her husband likewise/ as all manner of ●●eate hath a promise that we sin not if we use them measurably with thanks to god. If they call matrimony a sacrament, because the scripture useth the similitude of matrimony, to express the marriage or wedlock that is between us and christ: so will I make a sacrament of mustered seed, leaven, a net, keys, breed, water, and a thousand other things.   

More.  
This holy sacrament of matrimony was begun by god in paradise, and which when he began, he there instituted to signify the conjunction between himself and man's soul, and the conjunction between Criste and his church/ for which saint Paul saith that it is a great sacrament, and for such ever more hath it been taken in Crystes church. 
Ephe. 5  And though in those which for his sake forberyth it he coupleth himself to their souls with more grace: yet in that coupling of matrimony (if they couple in him) he coupleth himself also to their souls with grace, according to the sign that is to wit the marriage which he hath set to signify that grace/ and with that grace if they apply to work therewith, he helpeth them to make their marriage honourable, and their bed undefiled. And with that grace also he helpeth them toward the good education and bringing up of such children as shall come between them.  
And to this effect weighed that holy blessing that god 
e'en. ●  gave our first father and mother in paradise/ which blessing reason will that we take and understand to have been given by god, according the kind of them that it was given to/ that is to wit to work not in the body only of reasonable folk, but much more effectually to exercise his strength in the reasonable soul. where as Tyndale will that God's blessing was no better to mankind then to the kind of dogs and cats/ whereby should it almost follow that in generation used only for respect of God's commandment, had been toward god no more meritoryouse then to those other kinds of brute beasts, the getting of a whelp or a kytling.  
And where saint Paul for those holy significations saith that matrimony is a great sacrament, Tyndale dare say nay to his teeth/ and saith he can make as good a sacrament of leaven, of keys, of mus●●●d seed, or else of a net. He should rather yet lest the grace get out perdie make it of a sakke. But there is no grace therein saith he. And why say we. Because saith he that god hath none promysed● whereby wot you that say we. For I never red it in scripture saith he. where read you then in scripture say we that god hath made you a promise that he never made promise nor never none would make, but he would first send you word by writing. what Tyndale can say to this I can not tell. But till he can say better to this then ever himself or his master either could say to it yet, or ever shall say while they live/ every man may soon see what men may say to him.  
Luther yet in his book of Babilonica, where he saith as Tyndale now saith that matrimony where saint Paul saith it is a great sacrament, hath no grace nor is no sacrament: he answereth sayn● Paul well and pertly and saith, that saint Paul said it peradventure of his own head not of god's spirit. Then when the kings grace had answered him, and that he saw that for aught he could do men would believe saint Paul better than him, & that still folk took matrimony for a sacrament, and that they though that to faithful folk god with that holy knot gave grace toward the keeping and ordained it himself so to do: he swore then in great anger and made a great vow that he would plainly prove the contrary, and ran out of religion and wedded fleeing cate his nun, to show to the world himself a matrimony of his own making, that was neither any holy sacrament nor had any grace therein. And till that Tyndale do the same as he saith priests both may & must: he shall never any other way prove his conclusion true while he liveth.  
Of the sacrament of aneyling, these be his words.   

Tyndale.  
Aneyling is without promise, and therefore without the spirit, and with out profit, but all together unfruitful and supersticious.   

More  
Here is a short sentence and a false erroneous judgement given by Tyndale, upon all christian people that have been aneyled sins cristendom first began. And he is led thereto by two special motives/ the tone folly, the t'other falsshed. For of his folly he reckoneth himself sure every thing to be false that is not evidently written in holy scripture/ which one thing is the tone half of all the falls foundation whereupon Luther and Tyndale have builded all their heresies. For upon this Tyndale saith there is not any promise of this sacrament written in scripture: erg● there was no promise made by god. which argument is so good, that every boy in schools laugheth it to scorn & well they may/ for all the world can never make it good.  
His other motive is falsed, which is the antecedent of the same argument/ that is to wit that this sacrament hath no promise in scripture. For it hath an express promise in the ●pystle of saint jamys/ where he biddeth that if any be sick, 
jacobi .5  he shall induce the priests to come and pray for him and anoint him with oil, & the prayer of ●ayth shall hele the sick man/ and if he be in sin they shall be forgiven him. Nay saith Tyndale here we may see that the aneyling doth nothing/ for saint jamys saith that the prayer of faith shall hele the man. This is a sure argument. Lo, because saint jamys giveth the great effect to the faithful prayer: therefore the oil doth nothing at all. If it do nothing at all toward the remission of sins: why would saint jamys have it there, that might saving for the sacrament as well be thence as there/ except that Tyndale ween that saint jamys were so wise in natural things, that he thought oil a meet medicine for every sore.  
This place in saint jamis did so press upon Luther/ that he was fain to say that the epistle was never of saint jamys making, nor nothing had in it of any apostolical spyryt/ but he that so said was full of an apostatycall spirit.  
Of the sacrament of penances.   

Tyndale.  
penances is a word of their own forging, to deceive us with all.   

More.  
Here ye see that the sacrament of penances he setteth at less than nought/ for he saith it is but a thing forged and contrived to deceive us with. But every good christian man knoweth that such folk as he is, that against the sacrament of penances contrive and forge such false heresies/ sore deceive themself, and all them whom the devil blindeth to believe them. Now when he hath spoken his pleasure of the thing: ye shall here what he saith of the parts.  
Of confession.   

Tyndall  
shrift in the ear is verily a work of Satan, and that the falsest that ever was wrought, and that most hath devoured the faith.   

More.  
If the devil should himself sit & devise to speak spitefully/ what could he say more like himself against this part of the holy sacrament of penauns, them he now speaketh by the mouth of this his holy spiritual man.  
Here hath been a shrew● sort of christian folk this xu hundred year/ if every man have served Satan all the while they were a shryving.  
ye may see now to what perfection this gear groweth with Tyndale.  
Luther yet that was Tyndales master, as lewd as he is played never the blasphemous fool against confession so far yet as Tyndale doth. For Luther all be it he would make every man and every woman to, sufficient and meately to serve for a confessor: yet confesseth he that shrift is very necessary and doth much good, and would in no wise have it le●●e. But Tyndale amendeth the matter, and saith it is the very work of Satan/ & they therefore serve Satan and work his work if they shrive themself secretly and speak softly at the priests ere. But by likelihood he meaneth that if they speak out lustily that every man may hear them, all is well enough. For will waw forbade rowning.  
Of satisfaction.  
He will that we shall for our sins no more but only repent. For as for going about to punish ourself any thing for our own synnies, by penances doing, with fasting, prayer, almeyse deed, or any bodily affliction that god may have the more mercy upon us, which thing all good christian people have ever used to do, and which the church calleth satisfaction: this thing Tyndale calleth as ye shall here.   

Tyndale.  
Sin we thorough fragilyte never so o●●e, yet as soon as we repent and come in to the right way again, and unto the testament which god hath made in Crys●es blood: our sins vanish away as smoke in the wind, and as darkness at the coming of sight, or as thou cast a little blood or melke into the main see. In so much that who ever goeth about to make satisfaction for his sins to god ward, saying in his heart, thus much have I sinned, thus much will I do again, or this wise will I live to make amends with all, or this will I do to get heaven with all: the same is an infidel, faithless, and damned in his deed doing, and hath lost his part in Crys●es blood, because he is diso●edyēt unto god's testament, and setteth up another of his own imagination, unto which he will compel god to obey. If we love god: we have ● commandment to love our neighbour also, as saith Iohn in his pystl. And if we have offended him to make him amends/ or if we have not wherewith, to ask him forgiveness, and to do and to suffer all things for his sake to win him to god and to nourish peace and unity: but to godward christ is an everlasting satisfaction and ever sufficient.   

More  
The beginning of these words seem very godly, for the magnyfyeng of the great mercy of god. But consider the head, the mids, and the tail together & ye shall soon perceive that he boasteth mercy, but to mak● a man have so little care for his sin and maketh himself so sure of sudden and short remission, that he shall force full little how soon he fall thereto, when he believeth that how often so ever he sin or how sore, there needeth him no more but only bare repentances, and then all forgiven and forgotten sin and pain and all even by and by an hundred times in a day. Neither purgatory need to be feared when we go hens, nor penances need to be done while we be here/ but sin and be sorry and sit and make merry, and then sin again and then repent a little and run to the ale & wash away the sin, think once on God's promise and then do what we list. For hoping sure in that, kill we ten men on a day we cast but a little blood in to the main see. But he that setteth so much by his sin and is so sorry therefore, that to provoke our lord to mercy the more by punishing himself, and taking pain therefore, either of his own mind or by penance enjoined: he is a stark heretic, it were even almese to burn him. For he that will take any pain for his own sin/ weeneth that Crist had not pain enough. Is not here a mad doctrine of him that would seem a christian man.  
For as for that he telleth his tale, as though men did reckon their penances for a thing sufficient to satisfy for their sin/ that is but a piece of his poetry. For he is not so foolish but that he knoweth well enough that all christian men believe that no penances is of itself sufficient for the lest sin, but the passion and pain of christ maketh our penance available, to them that set not so little by their sin, but that they be content and think themself well worthy to take pain and penance for their sin themself.  
But because he will that men repent the doing of their sin, and then no more but faith: I would wit of Tyndale what calleth he repenting, a little short sorrow, or a great sorrow and a long? If a little pretty sorrow and very shortly done: I would as fain he said true as I fear that he lieth. If a great servant sorrow with grief and trouble of mind, not shortly shot over but kept & continued long: then force I little of his heresy. For no doubt is it but that Tyndals tale to such a man shall seem god wot full fond. For he that hath such repentance, will to shrift I warrant you, and take penance of the pressed, & do much more there to what so ever Tindale tell him. And he that is christened & careth for no shrift: repenteth never a deal/ but they that repent not at all be Tyndals repentant sinners.  
will ye see that it is so? Go me to Martin Luther the first master of Tyndale in this matter, though now his scholar passeth him. while that frere lieth with his nun, & woteth well he doth nought, and saith still he doth well: let Tyndale tell me what repenting is that. He repenteth every morning, and to bed again every night/ thinketh on God's promise first, and then go sin again upon trust of God's testament/ and than he calleth it casting of a little milk in to the main see.  
Of the sacrament of order.   

Tyndale.  
By a pressed in the new testament, understand nothing else but an elder, to teach the younger, to bring them to the full knowledge and understanding of christ, and to minister the sacraments which christ ordained.   

More.  
By the words, he meaneth that the holy order is no sacrament, nor is nothing else but an elder to teach the younger, and to minister the sacraments such as christ ordained. And in this wise he saith we be all priests both men and women to. For he saith in the same book precisely and in this book to, that women may consecrate the holy body of Crist. Against which foolish blasphemous babbling were very great folly to dispute, sith of as many good holy virtuous women as hath been in crystendone sith Christ's death unto this day/ was there never none yet but that her heart would have abhorred, if such an high pnsumptuous thought should once have fallen in her mind.  
And what would it avail to dispute with him, sith he mocketh and skoffeth out the words of saint Paul written unto Tymothe/ in which the sacrament of order is so plainly proved, that all the world can not deny it, but if they make a mokke at saint Paul as Tyndale doth.  
Now in that he saith the sacraments that christ ordained/ he meaneth nothing else but his plain heresies against all the sacraments save twain/ that is baptism and the sacrament of the aute●, as it have all ready seen in all the remanant. And now sith he leaveth but then twain/ I pray you consider how holily he handleth them twain, and ye shall see that he might almost as well deny them both as handle them after the fashion. And first here how he handleth the holy sacrament of baptism.  
Of the sacrament of baptism, these be his words.   

Tyndale.  
The sacraments which Criste himself ordained, which have also promises and would save us if we knew them and believed them/ them they minister in the latin tongue. So a● they also become as vns●rutefall as the t'other.  
And after he saith further: Baptism is called volowy●ge in ma●ny places in England, because the pressed saith volo say ye. The child was well volved say they/ ye and our vicar is as fair volwer as any pressed with in this twenty myses.   

More.  
All this great scoffing ariseth only, because that children be crystened in latin. For which only cause he saith that the baptism is utterly fruitless/ ye & by his tale worse than fruitless to. For he saith they be now in like cause as are the other sacraments, which he saith have no promise in scripture, and therefore are (he saith) superstitious. And lo thus first ye see that as long as ever any children have in England been crystened in latin/ there was never child the better for the cristendome. And then if this lie be true: there is yet never a christian man nor never a christian woman in all England, except happily some well latyned jews converted, or else such English children as learned their grammar in their mother's belly.  
How be it I would every other thing were as i'the to mend as this is/ for this matter may be soon eased. It may be now upon this fault founden, be provided upon Tyndales counsel that all the english children shall be crystened in english, and then they shall understand all the matter well enough ye wot well, and speak for themself to.  
But than findeth Tyndale two great faults for which he saith that all the baptizing of the child is fruitless. One he saith because of the false believe that the plunging in the water saveth them/ another for that the promise is not taught them.  
But there I would fain wit of Tyndale, sith he saith that the baptism is fruitless for such causes, and sith he must needs mean at the time of the cristening, for if he should mean no more but that the child should lease the fruit at length for lake of such instruction after, then were his words false though he said therein true/ for than were not bapaysme unfruitful, for it were very fruitful at the lest wise to a great many that god calleth hens ere ever the lack of such learning can be laid to their charge: thus I say Tyndale must needs mean therefore, that for these faults the fruit of the baptism is lost even at the font, & no grace gotten thereby/ or else his tale were false. And ye wot well in no wise will he lie for that were poetry.  
Now sith he saith then, that the baptism is fruitless at the fount for these causes: I would wit of him whither it be void because these things be not at the fount preached to the godfathers, or because they be not preached there unto the child it self. If he say that it is fruitless for lack of preaching there unto the child it self: then I deny not but the Tyndale saith right well and reasonable, and I shall speak to the person of our parish that he shall preach to the child at the fount, and tell him many good talis in his ere. But surely if he say that the baptism is fruitless at the fount for lack of such things there taught unto the godfathers/ therein could I not agree with him, for they come not to be crystened there themself/ and so the lack of that preaching there can not hinder their Christendom. And as for the child, if neither they nor the pressed neither well understand their duty nor well believed in baptism neither/ ye & though they were turks, jews, or saracens, or that worse were then all three very stark heretics: yet so that in the baptizing they purpose to make the child christian, & therein do as the church doth/ all their lack can not make the baptism lose his fruit. And if that Tyndale know not this he is very poorly learned/ and if he know this, and then say as he saith, that for lack of such teaching at the fount the baptism there is frutelese, what is he then say you?  
But now is it good to see somewhat of Tyndales mind concerning these two things, that is to wit the faith set on sensible tokens in the sacrament, and the preaching of the promises.  
first for the visible signs, there be two things to be considered. Thone that Tyndale beareth us in hand that the clergy maketh us believe that the visible signs alone doth all together, & therein he saith false/ another that himself believeth that they do no good at all, and therein he believeth false.  
For the first point these be his words.   

Tyndale.  
They make us believe that the work self without the promise saveth us, which doctrine they learned of Aristotle.   

More.  
In this point he plainly belieth the clergy, which doctrine he learned of the devil. who taketh baptism but for a sacrament ordained of god for man's salvation, by which god hath promised that he shallbe saved except sin after let him, and without which he shall not be saved, except right special cases, & those be very few neither able to be plainly proved by scripture, and yet will Tyndale agree them against his masters rule.  
How be it Tyndale hath here another rule and that as false as the t'other, by which as I was about to say he reckoneth the outward tokens of the sacrament to be of none effect, but only bare tokens of that grace that is wrought with the word, and that the word of Cristes' promise.  
For he saith that the sacraments be as it were a precheour, and do only preach god's promises/ and therefore for to minister the sacraments, is (he saith) nothing else but to preach gods promises. And for this he alleggeth the words of saint Paul in the fift chapter of his pistle to the Ephesies: 
Ephe. 5  Criste cleansed the congregation in the fountain of water thorough the word. And also the words of saint Peter where he saith in the first of his first pistle: 
1. Petri .1  ye are borne of new, not of mortal seed but of immortal seed, by the word of god which liveth and lasted ever. He alleggeth also the word of saint jamies in the first chapter of his pistle, 
jacobi .1.  where he saith: Of his good will bygate god us with the word of truth, that is saith Tyndale with the word of promise. He saith also: Thou seest that it is not the work but the promise that justifieth us thorough faith. He saith also that as the pressed purgeth by preaching of the promise, so do the sacraments and none otherwise/ because he saith that the sacraments be but signs and tokens that betoken and preach the promises. And so he meaneth that as the pressed preaching the promises, doth give us a knowledge of them, or putteth us in mind of them, and yet he doth but show us of the promises & of grace, & doth not give us any effect of any promise or grace, nor we by that preaching do not get no grace but by god's work bysyde: so though he minystre the sacraments, yet we do not attain & get any grace neither by the pressed, nor by the sacraments, nor by that work or deed that is done in ministering or receiving the sacraments, no more than by the priests preaching/ but only by the promise of god thorough faith to the infounding whereof the sacrament doth nothing work, nor is no cause thereof nor cooperant thereto, nor mean nor instrument therein/ but only a bare sygnyfyer and a shower thereof. And yet worse than thus: that likewise as if a pressed standing up in the pulpit to preach, do there stand still and preach nothing at all but so come down again and say nothing, doth unto the people no profit at all: so the sacraments sith they be but bare signs as he saith, and serve of nothing but to signify certain things, he saith therefore that because the ministers of the sacraments do not open and declare those significations to the receivers of the sacrament, therefore the sacraments be fruitless/ and men take no more profit by the receiving of them, then by the standing of the pressed in the pulpit that standeth there and preacheth not.  
And it it to be considered that this is his opinion as well of the blessed sacrament of the altar as of the holy baptism. whereby what mind he hath of that blessed sacrament, he leaveth little doubt to them that have either learning or wit.  
If this opinion of Tyndale were true that the priest doth in ministering the sacraments no more but preach the promises/ and in the ministering he purgeth but as he doth by his preaching/ and when he preacheth not the significations than he purgeth not: then were there with the baptism no grace at all given unto children for the priest preacheth not then/ & though he did we find not yet that he should sufficiently purge the child with preaching. And yet if baptizing be nothing else but preaching as Tyndale saith/ then after that the priest had well preached all the were to be preached and showed what the token and the sacrament meaneth/ he might as it seemeth by Tyndals' tale send home the child again & never put water upon him. Tyndale will have us believe no thing but plain & evident scripture/ I would he should therefore prove his tale here by plain and evident scripture/ for as for these placies that he layeth prove it no thing at all.  

Ephe. 5  For the words of saint Paul to the Ephesyes, Criste cleansed the congregation in the fountain of water thorough the word, is the thing that all we say to/ that is to wit that by the holy words of baptism comy●ge to the water god cleanseth the soul according to the words of saint Austyne accedit verbum ad elementum & fit sacramentum. 
S. Austinus  But Tyndale because saint Paul saith there/ in the fountain of water thorough the word, weneth that he setteth the water but for a sign/ as if the one would say, a man doth in his body fast, watch, give alms, and pray thorough the devotion of the soul, Tyndale would then say that the body were set but for a sign and in all these things doth nothing at all.  
His text also of saint Peter is nothing in this world for his purpose. For when saint Peter saith: ye are borne of new, not of mortal seed but of immortal seed● by the word of god which liveth and lasteth ever: what meaneth he other then that by our saviour himself which is the living word of god that liveth & lasteth euer● we be borne again by the sacramental water & the sacramental word, which both he there understandeth, for he there expressly speaketh of neither nother, but of the word that is god's son.  
The words of saint jamys also, 
I●●●bi .1.  that god of his good will begat us with the word of troth, how prove these words that the water of baptism serveth but for a sign.  
The word of troth saith Tyndale is here understanden the word of ●ys promise. How proveth Tyndale that? because that Crystes promises be true, must it therefore needs be that saint jamys in that place meant the word of promise/ as though there were no more true of all that ever christ spoke but only of his promises. why may not in that place the word of troth with which god hath of his good will bygoten us, be understanden our saviour christ himself/ by whom god hath bygoten us in deed, and which is the very troth itself as himself witnesseth of himself, where he saith: Ego sum via, veritas, & vita, I am the way, the troth, and the life. Thus may ye see that this text proveth Tyndales purpose nothing at all.  
But now suppose that the very words of saint jamys were, that god had bygoten us with the word of his promise/ what had this made for the matter? How had this proved that the water and the sacramental words were but bare signs & tokens? If saint James said that god had bygoten us by his goodness/ do these words exclude all the means that his goodness used toward it? If god would say to Tyndale: I have brought that in to this world which thou dost now corrupt, and I have made the christendom which thou ghost about to destroy, and I have bidden the beware of hell in to which thou rennest a pace: did he therein exclude Tyndal's father and his mother, and his sacrament of baptism and the minister thereof, and the preachers and lechers of the t'other? So ye may plainly see that Tyndales sextes serve no thing at all to prove that the sacraments serve but only for signs.  
This opinion hath Tyndale taken of Luther, which giveth to the sacrament nothing at all/ but he saith that god giveth all the grace by the faith alone, and not by the sacraments any thing at all. Now the church believeth & teacheth that god hath not so bounden himself to his sacraments, but that where he giveth the gift of faith to any that can not come to baptism, there he of his power may and of his goodness will give unto that man the gift of such grace to come to heaven without baptism. But where god giveth grace by the baptism/ there it is hard to set the baptism at so short, as to say that it serveth but for a bare sign/ and without the significations preached at the font standeth in no more stead than a preacher that preacheth not.  
Albe it that god may cure a sore without a medicine, & do a miracle in a man's health, and that for the regard of the man's good faith and his trust in god: yet if it please god to hele him by a plaster though his faith be the cause why god doth it/ yet is the plaster a mean in the doing, and serveth not for a bare sign.  
And surely when our saviour set this order therein, that who so were baptized in water in the name of the father & the son and the holy ghost he should be saved/ and that except a man were borne again as well of the water as of the spirit, he should not enter in to the kingdom of heaven: god set it to serve for a more effectual thing then for a bare sign void of any fruitful effect. For this were yet at the ●ai● wise no less, then if a lord would say to a poor fellow: take the here this badge or this livery gown of mine/ & if thou take it and were it I will take the for mine household servant and in mine household give the meat and drink & wages/ or else if thou were it not, thou shalt not come within my doors. This livery gown giveth him neither meat nor money/ but yet it is more than a sign that he shall have it/ for the wearing thereof helpeth him to get it, not of any nature of the livery but by his lords ordinance.  
And so like wise though it were true that the sacraments died nothing work in themself, nor had no power in themself no more of god then of nature to purge & cleanse the soul: yet were it more than a bare token or sign of grace, in that it hath by goddies promise his own special assistants, which at the sacraments ministered doth infounde his grace.  
How be it many good virtuous men hath there been of old, that have had yet a much higher estimation of the sacraments then so/ and that have thought that the sacraments have not only god by his promise assystente to purge the soul and to infunde his grace, but also that he hath used them therein as effectual working instruments in the doing thereof, by reason of a certain influens of his power, whereby he made them meet to work in to the soul thorough the touch of the body.  
And in to this mind they were led by the words of holy scripture, and partly for the excellence of the sacraments of the new law in respect of the sacraments of the old law/ between which two kinds of sacraments seemeth to be as great difference, as between the two kinds of the laws themself/ and that is no less than between figures, images, similitudes or shadows, and the very things themself/ as saith saint Paul: Omnia in figura contingebant ●●is, 
Corin. 1●.  all thing unto them came in figures.  
Then sith the sacraments of the old law had god by his promise assystent with them in remission of sins, 
Leuiti. 4.5. &. 6  as by the plain words of many places of scripture doth appear: it seemed to those old holy virtuous doctors, that the sacraments of the new law for the pre-eminence over them, should of God's especial influens have some effectual virtue, force, and power, as an instrument of god in the working thereof. To which mind they have been moved not only for the cause afore remembered/ but also as I said before for that the very words of holy scripture semen to lead them to it/ when they red in the acts, 
A●t●um .8  that by the putting of the apostles hands upon them that were crystened, the holy ghost forthwith came in to them, and by miracle showed himself by their speaking in divers tongues. And when they red saint Paul writing to Tymothee: 
1. Timoth. 4  Neglect not that grace that is in thee, which is given the by prophecy, with the putting upon of the hands of the preesthed/ and unto him also those words: 
2. Timoth. 1.  I warn the that thou resuscitate and stir up the grace of god that is in the by the imposition or putting upon of my hands: these placies were very plain for their mind, when they here red that grace was by god infused with the receiving of the holy order of priesthood, by the outward sacrament of putting the bishops hand upon him.  
It seemeth also that the words of god spoken by the mouth of the prophet Ezechiel soundeth to the same/ where he saith: I have washed the with water, 
Ezecl. 16.  & I have cleansed thy blood. By which words it seemeth to be signified that the outward washing of the water of baptism, should be an effectual instrument of the inward washing of the soul. And by the mouth of the same prophet, 
Eze●●. ●. ●6  in prophesying of the sacrament of baptism our lord saith also: I shall shed out upon you clean water, and ye shall be cleansed from all your filthiness. These words show that the water shall was●●e the filth. And what filthiness meaneth he but the filthiness of the soul? and that doth no water wash but the water of baptism. And where to would our lord by the mouth of his prophet call it clean water/ but for the difference that it hath in making clean the soul by influence of god's gift over that other waters have? for else as for elemental cleanness of that water in it self, other water is as clean as it.  
Those holy doctors considered also the yet more open words of the prophet zachary: 
Zachar. 14  There shall go forth he saith quykke lively waters out of Jerusalem, the one half of them to the oriental see, the other half to the very uttermost see. These words verily describe the holy water of the sacrament of baptism, the water that welleth out of holy church which stretcheth to two sees of sins, that is to wit both of sin original and of all the actual sin that the man hath done, all were he never so old ere he were baptized. And why calleth the prophet this water quykke and lively/ but for the difference between it and other waters that are but deed? in token that the water of baptism hath by the secret sanctification of god, a certain strength of spiritual life infounded in to that corporal element/ whereby it is not only a bare deed token, and sign of grace, and cleansing of the soul, but also a quick lively working medicine mean and instrument.  
By these places of scripture and diverse other/ many good holy men of old, all be it the no man otherwise thought nor thinketh, but that the principal work and the hole works in the cleansing of the soul and infunding of grace is god himself, and that he doth it for the merits of Crystes passion as he hath promised to do, and that upon our part is required in such as have use & reason at the time of baptism repentance of the evil life passed, with faith and belief of the word of god, and hope of salvation with love and charity toward god and our neighbour, and a purpose of working of good works: yet diverse god holy doctors have taught as I say by such placies of scripture, that god in the working of such cleansing of the soul, and infusion of grace, useth the sacraments not as a bare sign but as an instrument, with which and by which it pleaseth him to work them.  
And they that think otherwise/ that is to wit they that think that the sacraments be but as it were the livery gown whereof I gave you the ensample, and hath no sp●cyall power nor influence given of god, by which it any thing may work in cleansing of the soul: all they have none other thing for themself as far as I have red and could perceive, but arguments grounded upon philosophy and metaphisycall reasons/ by the constraynte whereof I will not say they be driven and compelled, but say that as it seemeth me, they drive and compel themself to find gloss to these scriptures, & unto the words of other good holy doctors to.  
For as for my part, I would not let to deny an hole heap of those reasons in matters of the sacraments, which hang all upon god's will and pleasure and his omnipotent power. For all be it that we see no likelihood how that bodily water can work upon the spiritual substance of the soul/ yet god can make that fire which is a bodily substance as well as is the water, to work not upon souls only discharged of their bodies in purgatory, but also upon the evil angels the devils whose substance is as spiritual as is the soul: I can not greatly see why we should greatly fere to grant & agree, that by god's ordinance the water may be god's instrument in purging and cleansing of the soul.  
which argument for aught that I perceive among them is to mine understanding so simply soiled/ that till I here either better or perceive them better: I like as yet that argument better than I like all their solutions that they make thereto.  
For some of them be fain for their solution, to grant almost that their pain in the fire were but a detaining therein by some strenger power then themself/ and then were the pain but as a prisonment and restraint of liberty, if the fire burn them not. And then why more in fire then in water, if they be for the fire never the warmer. And un the other side if that by the keeping of them in the fire the fire do work upon them and burn them, as I think the troth is: then so may by god's ordinance the water help to wash and cleanse the soul.  
And surely sith experience teacheth us that the soul which is of it self a spiritual substance, god hath of his high wisdom and power founden the mean so to put it in a body and so to knit it thereto, that not only by fire or frozen water put about it, but also without any outward thing put unto it, by the only boiling of the distempered humours within it self, the soul is in such grief, pay●e and torment, that it would be as fain out of the body as the body would be rid of it: sith we find this thus, I doubt nothing at all but that god can by more means than men can think or imagine, so bind the spiritual soul to the fire, that he shall feel the fervour of the fire as he now feeleth the heat of his ague here/ and yet shall not the fire and he be made one person as the soul and the body be now. which thing who so would ask me how may that be/ might as well ask me how might the world be made when there was nothing to make it of, and a thousand mad questions more. But to the purpose this I say, that god may by his power make the water in the sacrament an instrument with an efectuall influence of power given by god thereto at the time to purge the soul/ as well as the fire either to purge it or punish it. In which thing sith the scriptures seem to say that he doth so, & no scripture saith the contrary/ and many good holy men have been of that mind/ I see not why we should think otherwise.  
when our lord healed Naaman Syrus by his prophet He lyzeus in the water of jordane/ no man doubteth but tha● god did the deed. 
●. Regum. 5  yet were it a great boldness to affirm that the water there did work ●othynge therein at that time, and yet had the water no such nature of ytselfe.  
No more had also the water of which it is written in the gospel of saint Iohn, 
johan. 5  where at the moving thereof who so next were let down thereto was there cured by the angel of god/ and yet is it well likely that god gave an influence of his power at the time, by which the water self was made an instrument of that health.  
And likewise where the woman was heeled by the touch of Crystes garment, 
Lucae .8.  whereof saint Luke speaketh in the viii chapter: the words of our saviour himself seem to show some influence gone forth from himself in to his garment, such as by his might with the touch of his garment used as an instrument therein, was able to give health unto that good faithful wom●n.  
when our saviour as is written in the ix chapter of saint Iohn did take the dirt of the ground, 
Iohn. 9  and did spit there upon and made thereof a plaster, & laid it upon the blind man's yien and so gave him his sight: I think that god gave an influence of his power in to that plaster, whereby he cured his yien. yet might he have done it by his only word or by his only will, without any such outward thing laid there unto. But it pleased him to let them see that he not only could do it himself, but could also make the very dirt of the street able to do such Cures/ as not all the plasters in all the surgeons shops were able to attain unto.  
Now if they will say that it is not like in curing the body and cleansing of the soul: I say it is like, saving for the reason by which they say that the bodily water can not work upon the unbodily soul. And therefore thereto I say, that by no natural power nor by no power except only goddies/ could these bodies that is to wit those waters, garment, and plaster, have in such wise wrought upon the bodies wherein they were working instruments of these marvelous cures. And then I say by his power may the bodily water as well be a working instrument upon the unbodyed and unbodily soul, be it in cleansing, pourging, or punishing/ as upon the body.  
For as for that reason by which some doctors reckon the matter the more easy in the sacraments, because the out ward sensible things thereof work as they reckon upon the soul, as part of the holeman by touching the body thereof/ as the fire touching the body paineth the soul & all, all be it I repungne not thereat: yet I nothing ground myself thereon, sith I never found among them all one reason yet, whereby me thought it proved otherwise, but the god may make the bodily corporal water, able to work upon the unbodyed incorporyall soul. which if it may/ sith god hath set the sacraments as means by which we come to cleansing of the soul and to salvation/ all be it that no man denieth but that the power of god is chief, & that he regardeth Christ's passion and our own faith with diverse other things: yet I see not why we should take all effect of working from the sacraments themself, and leave them void of all grace, and call them bare graceless tokens. For if that any man were of the mind that he thought the sacraments do nothing to the cleansing of the soul, because that all that ever is done is done by the power of god: so might he think that no medicine doth any thing in the cure of any disease, because that all the nature of the medicine is given unto it by the power of god to.  
How be it in this matter whither that the sacraments have any influence of power given them by god, whereby they may be workers and instruments in the purging or cleansing of the soul/ or else that they be but in such wise means and cause of the grace, as the livery gown whereof I did put the ensample is of the servants finding in the lords household/ is not the thing wherein I will greatly stick. But in my mind the scripture most serveth for the first opinion/ and good holy doctors and of the eldest have been of that opinion, and nothing but philosophical reasons have drawn other from that opinion. And synnies that some other hath fallen to the other opinion, which giveth to the sacraments less force and effycace than doth that first opinion: there are now come these new men, Luther, frere Huskyn, and Hyphen, and such other lewd fellows, that would leave the sacraments by their wills n● manner strength at all. And therefore so much like I the better the first way that most h●ly men held, and that fertheste goeth from the doctrine of those heretics, which make the sacraments as they say to serve only for priests and preachers/ & than they preach themself that the preesthed is no sacrament at all, and turn them all in to mocks and jests, comparing sand with holy salt, and butter smering to the anointing with the hallowed chrism/ & such other foolish blasphemy.  
Now where they say that all the salvation standeth in promise of god, and nothing in the sacraments at all/ because that they be but the tokens thereof: by this reason they will within a while take a way the reverence from the very promise to. For of troth the promise of god worketh not our salvation no more than do the sacraments, but god worketh our salvation himself/ and the promise is the token whereby we know he doth so. For if he had not promised it/ we had not so surely known it, nor had not had so great a cause of good hope thereof/ but yet might he have saved us though he had never promised us. And now them that he saveth, he saveth not so much by the force of his promise as by reason of the self same goodness that made him to make the promise. So that his own liberal goodness worketh our salvation, and the promise giveth the knowledge of our salvation.  
Now say these men allway that god saveth us by his promise, as though they were sure that if he were not surely bound by his promise, he would not now do it at all/ and saving that his promise is once passed him somewhat as they make it unware: he would else if it were now to make, take a better advisement ere he bound himself so far.  
In men such change and such repentance happeth, that where one of his good will sometime bindeth himself to give/ the t'other may thank the bond if ever the promise be kept. But gods high providence so foreseeth what he promised/ that he can never forthynk it. And his inestimable goodness is so great/ that he giveth not because he promiseth, but he promiseth because he will give/ and would give though he never promised as he determined to give before he promised/ and would yet promise if he had not promised/ not that his promise should be the cause of his gift, but that we should by his promise have knowledge of his gift and comfort of the hope.  
Now maketh me Ty●dale the sacraments nothing but a token of the promise/ and the promise he maketh the cause of the gift: where of troth as well the promise as the sacraments be tokens of the gift/ and god's goodness is the cause of the gift. And god hath from the beginning determyn●ed that he would after the fall of Adam ordinarily not give it without the sacraments. But though he determined also to make a promise/ yet never determined he that he would not give it without he made a promise. And so be both the sacraments and the promises tokens of the gift/ and yet seemeth the sacrament rather than the promise a cause of the gift. For the sacrament after the institution, seemeth a cause of the gift, at the lest wise in some kind of cause, and the promise seemeth no cause in no kind neither sins nor afore. And thus ye may see what a wise process Tyndale maketh us.  
But would god yet that this were the worst piece of Tyndales teaching concerning Crystes promise. But he frameth Christ's promises after his own fashion. He saith that we make promises in sacraments where christ made none/ but he maketh promises that Crystes made never such. For christ promiseth heaven if men labour for it: Tyndale would make us ween we need no labour at all. christ promiseth forgiveness thorough the sacrament of penauns if men amend and will do penances: Tyndale of the sacrament putteth two parts away, and almost the third to, & promiseth forgiveness for a very short scant repenting at the first thought by and by/ and to do penances he taketh for idolatry. christ promiseth us heaven if we do good works with our faith: Tyndale saith to do good works with intent the rather to come to heaven shall bring a man to hell, and lose the reward of faith. And thus Tyndale which crieth out promise promise, and will have nothing taught but Crystes promise: yet in these things and an hundred more striveth and fighteth against God's promises, and utterly goth about to destroy them.  
Finally where as christ hath made a promise, one of the greatest, most solemn, most assuredly made, & thereto most fruitful & most necessary that ever he made/ that is to wit that he would be with his church of christian people all days unto the end of the world, and that he would send also the holy ghost unto them that should teach them all thing & lead them in to every truth: Tyndale first (lest he should seem to gainsay this promise) would shift it from the known church and company of all christian people professing the name and faith of christ, unto a secret company of such as they call good men and elect/ which who they be who can tell? And yet sith there can be no doubt but such as be or have been very elects, have alway been parties of this known christian company/ and sith they were not false dyssymylers: they have believed as they showed, and they have showed that they believed as we believe in such things as Tyndale now calleth myssebylefe, for they have done therein as we do, and alway the best have written these things that we believe/ and never was there any company till with in this twenty year, that believed as Tindale saith that he believeth. And he saith also that his belief is so necessary to saluacyō● that the contrary belief is damnable/ for else he would not of his courtesy cry out so sore upon the clergy for teaching the contrary. where upon if Tyndales lie be true/ there must then of necessity follow that there must be true also one of these two very plain falsedes/ that is to wit that christ hath never sins his death till holy Tyndales days had in this world here any church at all/ or else that if christ have had here any church, yet from his own death till holy Tyndal's days, the holy ghost whom himself sent, never taught his church the truth. Now than if christ had all this while no church in earth/ his promise was clearly broken, by which he promised to be with his church himself all days unto the worlds end. For how were he with his church here unto the worlds end/ if before the worlds end so many hundred years together, ●e had here no church at all.  
And on the other side if he had here all this while any church/ and then the holy ghost have not taught that church the truth: then hath Criste broken that promise, by which he promised that the holy ghost should teach his church all things and lead them in to all truth. For how had the holy ghost taught it all things if he have suffered the devil to teach it some things. And let Tyndale when he will answer this point. Mark well and remember that we speak here of belief and faith/ not of works and deeds, lest after his customable fashion letting the belief go by: he answer us with railing upon men's manners, and so lead the rea●er more than smile fro the matter.  
And how hath the holy ghost led the church all this while in to all truth/ if one holy truth be, that freres when they list may wed nuns notwithstanding their vows, and the holy ghost hath almost this fifteen hundred year together, suffered all his hole church (neither good nor bad except) to believe that breach of such vows is deadly sin, and such manner marriage plain incestuose lechery, and to damn Tyndales faith in that point for very false heresy.  
And thus good christian readers here ye plainly see what manner of fashion Tyndale teacheth Crystes promises. For where as he seven all at nothing saving only Crystes promises made to man: he teacheth men again to break their promise made to god/ and so bringeth all his matters in conclusion to that point, that if he lied not as he doth/ christ had broken his promise made to his church/ beside this that of Crystes promises he denieth many, and them that he granteth he believeth shrewedly, and would make them serve us only for a blind boldness of sin.  
Of the sacrament of the altar.  
For as much as he seeth that the mass is the special thing in which the sacrament of the altar is honoured, & in which it is most fruitful, in so much as there the very body and blood of our lord is not only received by the pressed himself and for himself, but is also for his own synnies and other men's to, offered up to god as an holy host, oblation, and sacryfycye/ representing the same sacrifice in which our saviour both being the pressed and the sacrifice, offered up himself for the sin of the world unto his father in heaven, and acceptable sacrifice upon his painful cross: therefore doth Tyndall after his masters doctrine ●este and rail and make mocks at the mass, whereof these be his words.   

Tyndale.  
What helpeth it that the pressed when he goeth to mass ●●sgyseth himself with a great part of the passion of christ, and playeth out the rest under silence with signs and proffers, with nodding, becking, and ●owynge, as it were ●acke a ●a●●s/ when neither he himself neither any man else woteth what he meaneth, nor whereof no man can give a good reason as he saith soon after.   

More.  
Here he mocketh and playeth himself as ye see in mocking these holy ceremonies used, as well in th'apparel of the pressed as in the secrets of that holy sacrifice. which he saith do no good but much hurt, and make men supersticious/ because as he saith there, they have the more devotion thereby/ & therefore he would have them l●●te, as though the devotion that is increased by the beholding of those holy ceremonies were superstition, because they understand them not.  
If Tyndale say true in this/ then did god by his own commandment make his chosen people of Israel to fall in to superstition in stead of devotion, with the ceremonies used about the sacrafyces in the old law, because they understood them not.  
After this he mengleth his lies therewith, saying that christian men think that they have done abundantly enough for god, ye and deserved above measure, if they be present on's in a day at such a mumming.   

More.  
what may not such a man be bold to say that is not a shamed to lie so shamefully? for he knoweth that all the readers well know that he lieth when they read it/ and yet he is not ashamed to writ it. what man would be so foolish to think that he hath done enough for god?  
yet layeth he another incommodyte that the infidels will mock us and abhor us, in that they see nothing but such apes play among us, whereof no man can give a reason.  
Lo what an high reason hath Tyndale here found out, that such holy ceremonies whereof Crystes church hath received many, by the blessed apostles themself, & from their days used ever hitherto, as appeareth by the writing of holy doctors far above a thousand year a go/ we must now give over, for fere left infideles as Turks and Saracens would learn of Tyndale to mock us for them/ because we can not tell them a good reason for each of them. Be ye sure this is a right solemn reason/ and Luther in deed maketh a much like, so that ye may see that they have weighed it well between them, or else Tyndale would not after so long a leisure allege it again so solemnly.  
But now would I wit of wise. Tyndale whither if men could and did give a good reason unto jews Turks & Saracens and paynims/ as for ensample such causes as Tyndale telleth some for great hid mysteries that no man could tell but he, which he set out late of a good frere's book called Rationale divinorum/ showing what signifieth the albe, the amiss, and stole, and so forth: would the● all the jews, Turks, Saracens, and other infidels hold themself satisfied & mock no more? if they so would/ than were they all much less infidels than Tyndale is/ for he hath sought out such things, and yet mocketh still. How be it that is little marvel. For in deed he bringeth all such things forth but for to make mocks at them.  
But than would I wit of wise Tyndale farther, whither if all these infidels that he speaketh of, as jews, Turks, and Saracens were present at the mass/ and no such ceremony at all used thereat, but only kneeling, knokking on breasts, and holding up of hands at the sight, levation, and receiving of that blessed sacrament/ and that thereupon marveling on the manner thereof, they were told the very troth that the cause of all this reverent behaviour, is because that there under that form of breed and wine is the very blessed body and blood of our saviour himself, the same that hang upon the cross when he suffered his passion for our redemption: would those infidels then hold themself all content, and never mock at it more? Nay will none of them beside the blessed sacrament mock at all the hole matter, both at the incarnation, death, resurrection and all?.  
Lo thus ye see good christian readers, that by Tyndales reason we must cast of clean all our hole faith/ lest such infidels as himself is, should make mocks there at as he doth. what christian ears can abide such blasphemous folly?  
yet would some unwise man ween peradventure, that Tyndale doth for all this not mean any thing against these holy ceremonies of the mass/ but only mocketh the priest because he speaketh not all the secrets of the mass a loud/ and also because he teacheth not all the parish what all those ceremonies mean.  
Surely there needeth no man to doubt, but he that can find in his heart to make such mocks upon the devout observances used so many hundred years about the mass/ hath a lewd bestely mind against the very sacrament it self.  
But yet to th'end that every man may see it the more clearly: ye shall perceive by his own words that according to Luther's babbling in his book of Babilonica/ Tyndale teacheth plainly that the blessed sacrament is in the mass no sacrifice, none host, nor none oblation/ by which abominable herefye he taketh luyte a way the very special profit and fruit of all the mass. These be his very words:   

Tyndale.  
There is a word called ●n latin sacerdoes, in greek hiere●s, in Hebrew cohan/ that is a minister, an office, a sacryfycer, or a pressed/ as A●●on was a priest and sacrificed, for the people, and was a mediator between god and then/ and ●● the english should it have had some other name then priest. But Antecrist● hath deceived us with unknown and strange terms, to bring us in to confusion and superstitious blindness. Of that manner is Criste a priest for ever, and all we priests thorough him/ and need no more of any such priest on earth to be a mean for us unto god.   

More.  
By these words yese, that where as the priests in the old law offered sacrifices for the people and that of diverse 〈◊〉 des, as appeareth in Leuitici and Numeri and other places of holy scripture/ in stead of all which sacrifices christ hath in his new law instituted one only sacrifice, his own blessed body and blood to be offered up to his father for his people by the hands of the priest in form of breed & win/ of which holy offering in the mass now, the offering of Melchisedech that offered bred and wine, 
C●●●. 14  was a solemn figure: Tyndale telleth us here that because Crist is a pressed for ever, and that all we be priests thorough him man & woman/ ye must understand we need therefore he saith no more of any such pressed on earth, that should be a mean between god and the people, to offer up any sacrifice to god for the people. For he saith farther, that christ hath 〈◊〉 us in to the inner temple within the veil and unto the mercy stole of god, and 〈◊〉 coupled us unto god/ where we offer every man for himself the desires and petitions of his heart/ and do sacrifice and kill the lusts and appetites of his flesh, with prayer, fasting, and all manner of gol●y living.   

More.  
with these gay glittering words would Tyndale so blear our eyen/ that he would make us to reckon ourself taken in so near to god and so coupled with him, that even upon god almyghtyes mercy stole we offer every man so sufficiently for himself the desires and petitions of his heart, and so sufficiently sacrifice and kill the jousts and appetes of his flesh, with prayer, fasting, and all manner of good living: that we need now no pressed as mean between god and us, to offer up for us to god the holy host and sacrifice of all sacrifices, the blessed body and blood of our holy saviour christ.  
This is the goodness that he bringeth all his holy process to. And where as in other places all is nought among us, and all is but sin: yet here lest we should need the sacrifice of the mass, we be all god's good sons, & kill and sacrifice full well the lusts and appetites of our flesh, with prayer, fasting, and all manner of godly living.  
How be it when Tyndale saith that we offer our desires of our heart at god almyghtyes mercy stole/ & that we kill and sacrifice the lusts of our flesh with prayer, fasting, and all godly living: he meaneth none of us peevish, popish popystes, but the lively lightsome Lutherans. For they perdie as ye see by Luther himself and his holy nun/ kill & sacrifice their fleshly lusts, with prayer, fasting, and much godly living, every man and woman woteth how.  
I marvel yet in what place of scripture Tyndale findeth/ that men sacrifice their sins. we find that men offer sacrifice for sin and that men kill sin/ and then peradventure offer themself clean depured from sin. But to offer up sin in sacrifice/ me seemeth it is a very stinking sacrifice, and of such a scryptured man not very scrypturely spoken. But therefore Tyndale turneth those ii words out of their right frame, to juggle and blear our yien withal. For he saith not that we kill and sacrifice our fleshly lusts/ lest we should have spied that it were no meetly sacrifice. But he saith that we sacrifice and kill them/ as though that in the old law men had been wont to sacrifice the beasts first, and burn them up hole/ or else burn part and eat part and then kill them after.  
But Tyndale careth not how he set his words, so that he may make us to believe, that we need no priest to offer up daily the same sacrifice that our saviour offered once, and hath ordained to be by the priests perpetually offered in his church. For this is his labour to take out of our belief/ and this is Luther's labour, of whom he learned it in his book of Babilonica. And for this cause be they wroth with the holy canon of the mass, because the sacrament is in the mass called as it is in deed, a sacrifice, an host, & an oaring.  
This would they have us leave of for the only spite that they bear to preesthed/ because they se that in this point that holy order of preesthed hath an excellent privilege, in which none angel hath the like authority.  
And all be it that Tyndale telleth us many times as the man is somewhat shameless, that we will not believe saint Hierom, saint Austyne, saint Ambrose, saint Gregory, and the other old holy doctors of Crystes church: yet knoweth Tyndale that in this one point among many other, they be quite against him everichone. And because it would here make a long work to rehearse many of their words: therefore that Tyndale shall not deny but that I therein say truth, I shall allege him Luther his own master/ which in his book of Babilonica plainly confesseth the same, and answereth it with saying that the gospel of god is plain against them all/ as though that among them all, either never none had red the gospel of god/ or else never none had understanden it but himself. And then against them all he construeth that gospel so foolishly/ that afore god a man would ween almost that a gosling had as much wit as he. And yet now would his wise disciple Tindale have us for his pleasure in hatred of the order of preesthed/ believe that the priest doth at the mass make none offering of the holy sacrifice for our sin. with which heresy he clean taketh away the very fruit of the mass, in which that blessed sacrament is both most honoured of the people, and is also most profitable to the people  
But yet shall ye see ferther that as fair as he covereth himself in his speaking of this holy sacrament in some other places: yet in some he showeth his affection full well: for these are his words.   

Tyndale.  
The sacrament of Crystes body after this wise preach they: 
ye may 〈◊〉 pe●●ceyue 〈◊〉 th●● 〈…〉 Tyn●●●●.  Thou must believe that it is no more breed but the very body of christ, flesh, blood, and bone, even as he went here on earth, save his cote. For that is here yet I wot not in how many places.   

More  
Is not here a fair mocking manner in rehearsing of that holy sacrament? But yet to cover his infidelity/ he maketh here a colour, as though he were angry that they teach no more. But he is angry in deed that they teach so much/ or else could he never find in his heart to speak so mokkeshly of such a matter as he doth.  
For every man well knoweth that where he maketh after as though they which teach the people this/ did not teach them also the profit of the receiving nor the promise of god: he doth untruly belie them. For who is there so simply taught, but that he well understandeth that the receiving of the holy body of our lord in such wise as men are taughe to receive it/ is wholesome to the soul and that by God's ordinance? And therefore is in Tyndale but a shamelesselye, whereof every man well knoweth the contrary. would god himself believed as well of this holy sacrament, as the sympleste learned priest in a country teacheth his parish. which if he did/ his heart I dare say would not serve him so foolishly to jest thereat. For he speaketh there of preaching of promise, for no other cause but only to bring in his worshipful jest of our lords holy body being in the sacrament, to say he is there all save his cote. Of which holy sacrament he that jesteth so/ believeth of lyklyhed that there is no more of his body there than of his cote. I have in his book of obedience considered his words of this holy sacrament/ & I have advised them the better for certain words that I have herd of him: & I see not one word by which he may be bounden to say that ever he confessed it to be the very body and blood of christ. How be it if he had/ it were not yet with that sort much the surer. For they may do as their master hath, say the contrary after/ and when they say worse, than tell us that they have seen more sins and learned better.  
How be it he is in deed comen to that point all ready, as ye shall perceive by his words in his book made against me/ whereof I shall rehearse you part anon. And yet we need not much more proof, when we see that he mocketh at the mass, and would have no priest at all, nor the sacrament to be taken as a sacrifice/ and now jesteth upon the doctrine that teacheth us to believe that in the sacrament is the blessed body and blood of our lord, to turn it to a mokke, ye saith this fool all save his cote/ a worshipful jest in a christian man's mouth/ that mouth is more meet in deed for sand then holy salt.  
What avayseth saith he to teach folk this, that the very body and blood of our lord is in that sacrament/ the devil knoweth that Criste died on a friday and the jews to/ and what are they the better. we have a promise. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  
why steppeth he from th'example of the same sacrament. why saith he not the devil knoweth this to be true, that under the form of breed is Cristes' own body, and yet the devil is never the better. Surely because himself believeth that the devil knoweth it not at all nor god neither. And for because he would not yet have us therein perceive his mind to the uttermost: he joined the jews with the devil to f●e fro the sacrament to the friday, where he might have severed them and spoken of both/ or else with the jews & the devil, he might have joined himself, and have bounden all three in a bundle. For he believeth less than the tone/ and is as malicious as any of them both.  
yet to th'intent that ye may perceive clearly, that he is plain of Luther's heresy/ that the sacrament of the altar is very breed still: ye shall understand that where as I in my dialogue rehearse Luther's heresies, and among other this heresy that I now speak of, Tyndale in his answer affirmeth Luther's heresy for good and true, saying: That that is broken, and that the pressed eateth with his teeth/ is it not breed what is it else.  
And after those words he goth forth in jesting & mocking god wot full like himself.  
And soon after in another place he saith in defence of Luther's heresy, because he would have folk set less thereby & have less reverence thereunto: It were a perilous case if men and women touched it, because the 〈◊〉 hath not oiled them.  
And afterward he saith: At Oxford about the sacrament was no small question of late days, whither it were breed or none/ some affirming that the flower with long dying in water was turned in to starch.   

More.  
what a cankered mind this heretic hath/ there can I trow no man doubt that heareth what foolish gauds he deviseth upon it of his own frantic head. For if ever there were any such foolish fantasy spoken there/ it was by himself & one or two wretched fellows of his own sect, sitting and blaspheming god upon their ale bench.  
But now shall ye yet more plainly see, to what point he goth about to bring you.   

Tyndale.  
It is the sacrament of Crystes body and blood, and christ calleth it the new and everlasting testament in his blood, and commandeth that we should so do in the remembrance of him/ that his body was broken and his blood shed for our sins. And Paul commandeth thereby to show or preach the lords death. They say not pray to it, neither put any faith therein. For I may not believe in the sacrament, but I must believe the sacrament, that it is a true sygge, and it true that is signified thereby (which is the only worshipping of the sacrament, if ye give it other worship ye plainly dishonour it) as I may not believe in Crystes church, but believe Cristes' church, that the doctrine which they preach of christ is true. If ye have any other doctrine/ teach us a reason and lead us in sight, and we will follow.   

More.  
No man can desire better knowledge of him than he showeth of himself in these words. For here he showeth plainly that though to blear our yies withal he calleth it the sacrament of Crystes body and blood, and his new and euerlasty●ge testament in his blood/ and saith that we be commanded by saint Poule thereby to preach the lords death: yet he wyl● not in any wise that men shall pray thereto nor put any faith therein. And it is no doubt but he that hath that mind, believeth nothing at all that it is the very body of christ, wherewith his holy soul is coupled, and his almighty godhead joined/ from which fro the first assumption thereof it was never severed.  
And therefore unto all his other gay glorious words he hath a false gloze/ by which he meaneth that the blessed sacrament is nothing else but a token & a figure ordained for a remembrnces of christ, and not the very body and blood of himself.  
It is also to be noted whereupon he groundeth this holy precept of his, that men should not pray to the sacrament nor put any faith therein. He saith because that the scripture doth not command it/ therefore it is dishonour to the sacrament to do it. Doth not these words alone teach us sufficiently, to know the mischief of that heresy/ by which they say that there is nothing to be believed without plain and evident scripture/ when we see now that Tyndale upon that doctrine of his, forbiddeth us to honour the holy sacrament of the altar.  
ye may see now that Tyndale uttered not all his false ware at once. For first he began with images/ then with relics, then with saints, that we may worship none of all these. And now at last he teacheth us that we may not worship Crystes own body in the blessed sacrament of the altar, nor put any faith therein. Put ye no doubt but he will say the same by his soul within a while, & soon after that by his godhead to/ and at the last by the godhead of the father and the holy ghost both, and utterly deny all three.  
God is good lord which maketh this blasphemous fool speak in the end of his blasphemy a few true words, with which himself destroyeth all his whole abominable doctrine. For he confesseth as ye have herd/ that though he may not believe in Crystes church, as though the church were his saviour: yet he must believe Crystes church/ that the doctrine which they preach of christ is true. And with these words of his own, will I strain him fast & sure. For I ask no more but these few words of his own, to the confounding of all that ever he teacheth against our faith. For now hath he with these words destroyed theffect of his heresy/ wherewith he would draw all to an unknown church of elects. For sith we must believe the doctrine & the preaching of the church of christ, as Tyndale saith himself, and that can we never do but if we know them whom we believe/ and who be elects we can not know: farewell the force of all that heresy by Tyndales own tale.  
And now sith he hath bounden himself to confess that the church of christ is & must needs be a church known here to men, and none such can he name but only the catholic known church of all christian nations, from which he hath and doth labour to flit and i'll unto a dark unknown church of elects/ the strength of which heresy his own words here have confounded: he must needs confess that Crystes church is the church that we be of, and out of which himself is down fallen by unfaithfulness in to the deep dungeon of the devil. And now sith of his own confession he must believe the doctrine of the church of christ/ and of the same confession of his own it followeth that the church of christ is this common known church, that hath from Crystes days hitherto continued/ and that it is evident also that by the doctrine of that church the doctrine of Tyndale concerning the blessed sacrament is false/ for ever hath it been by that church of christ taught that the blessed sacrament should be worshipped, and faith to be put therein whereof Tyndale teacheth the contrary: it is inevytably concluded upon Tyndales own words, that Tindale is against Crystes own blessed person, a deadly deuel●she heretic.  
Now sith ye plainly perceive good christian readers, that this malicious man intendeth to turn poor simple souls out of the very faith/ and of the vii holy sacraments would take five away/ and the other twain that he would seem to leave, he handleth yet in such wise as men may well see that he leaveth them as fruitless as the other/ and finally in effect believeth neither nother: there will no good man look that we should now need to prove these holy sacraments to be true, which all christian people have this xu C. year believed/ because that now a fond fellow and a foolish heretic denieth them/ except that any man were so mad to doubt whither there were any god at all, if he happened to here any man so mad to say nay.  
And surely there was never sect of heretics yet, that there was so great madness to believe as these. For of other heretics that have been of old/ every sect had some one heresy or else very few. Now these heretics come in with almost all that ever all they held and yet more to. All the other heretics had some pretext of holiness in their living: these shameless heretics live in open shameful incestuous lechery and call it matrimony.  
The old heretics did stick upon scripture when it was yet in a manner new received/ and they contended upon the understanding at such time as there had few christian writers exponed the scripture before them, so as they might the better say to the catolyque church, why may not we perceive the scripture as well as you: but these new heretics be so far fro shame/ that in the understanding of scripture, and in the affirming of all their heresies/ they would be believed by their only word, against all the old holy doctors that have been synnies the death of Criste unto this day/ and that in those rotten heresies to, which they find condemned to the devil by the general counsels of all christendom a thousand year afore their days/ and most mad of all in denying the sacraments which they find received & believed, used & honoured so clearly from the beginning/ that never was there heretic that durst for very shame so boldly bark against them, till that now in these latter days the devil hath broke his chains, and of all extreme abomination hath set his poisoned barrel a brooch/ from the dreggy draft whereof god keep every good christian man, and such as hath drunken thereof give them grace to vomit it out again by tyme.  
This long digression have I made you/ to let you plainly see the sommary purpose and effect of Tyndales doctrine touching the holy sacraments/ which known unto good men sufficeth to make their hearts abhor●e his devilish doctrine without any further argument. And as for them that at the bare hearing thereof abhor it not/ they be surely so sore infected, that except the marvelous mercy of god, never shall there either reason or authority make them savour the troth.  
But now that Tyndale hath commended unto you the high spiritual wisdom of unfaithful heretics/ he beginneth on the other side to rebuke and reprove the true faith of all good faithful people.   

Tyndale.  
But the world capty●ateth his wit, and about the law of god maketh hy● wonderful imaginations/ unto which he so fast cleaveth, that t●̄n● I●hn̄ Baptistes were not able to dispute them out of his head.   

More.  
Now that Tyndale hath done with his own spiritual part, & hath as ye have herd holily declared how high spiritual wisdom they use in searching the very bottom of the cause in every commandment that god giveth/ and according to the thing which they take for the cause, so order themself either keep the commandment or break it: now cometh he to thoter part/ that is to all that are no heretics, whom he before called natural and not borne again nor renewed with the spyrtie, all which folk he calleth here the world/ and saith that the world captyvateth his wit, & about the law of god maketh him wonderful imaginations/ unto which he so fast cleaveth that ten Iohn baptists were not able to dispute them out of his head.  
Here he meaneth that himself and his fellows spiritual heavenly men/ be not captivate unto the law of god, as we poor worldly men of middle earth be. For they be no ferther bounden to the law, but as the cause of the law sought out by themself, leadeth them to and fro/ and therefore they be in an evangelical and in manner angelical liberty to do what they list/ so that they give the law some cause that may serve their lust, as they have given to the law and commandment of vows/ from which they have set themself in such a spiritual liberty, that monks and freres may lawfully lie with nuns and live in lechery, and call it wedlock.  
And in deed they may call it wedlock and they will as lollardes did of late, that put a pig in to the water, on good friday/ and said go in pig and come out pike/ and so when they had changed the name, they took it for fish and eat it. And so may these holy new spiritual men, when monks and freres wed nuns, they may call it wedlock & they will. But as the poor plough man said unto the taverner that gave him water in stead of wine, god thank you master wyner for your good wine, but in good faith saving for the worshipful name of wine iche had as l●ue a drunken water: surely so may we well say to these new holy spiritual married monks and freres/ saving for the worshipful name of wedlock, it were as good they lived in lechery, as in such byched bichery.  
But we silly souls of the world here, be captivate and bound he saith and not in such an heavenly liberty/ but make ourself wonderful imaginations about the law of god, which thing much I marvel of. For the world is not often wont to muse much upon the laws of god, nor greatly to study upon them, but let them go by well and easily & think little on them/ nor need not Iohn baptist to dispute out of their heads any wonderful imaginations that they have studied about the law of god.  
But Marry on the other side, these new spiritual men, have with their new liberty made themself wonderful imaginations to which they cleave so fast, that xu Iohn baptists can not dispute them out of their heads. For they have to the great wonder of the world made them an imagination, that freres may live in lechery with nuns, and never need do penance neither for that nor for any sin else, but repent and do so still and believe that all is well, & do no penance nor take no pain for any sin at all.  
Now every man well woteth that saint Iohn the baptist did dispute against these imaginations of theirs, both with his living and his teaching. For against their lechery his living disputed with chastity/ & against their heresy of penance, he disputed with preaching penance. For he bade them, not every boy go forth and take himself for an apostle and go preach, but he cried upon them to do penance/ and not only bade them repent and do penance, but also bade them if they would avoid hell and the wrath that else was to come, 
Matth. 3.  they should do worthy fruits of penance. And because that they should not ween that it was but a word of office, and that it sufficed to believe well in God's promise, and so go their way & think themself save: he showed them in himself and his own living, for their institution not for the deserving of his own sin, a form and fashion of a repentant sinner in what wise he should do penance. And therefore he lived solitary, saving that his virtues caused him to be visited. He lived in holy vowed chastity and never ●edded woman in his days, nor never would have done though he had lived twice as long as Luther● He lived in poor and painful apparel. 
Lucae. 1.  He lived in watch and prayers, in fasting and forbearing meat. He drank no wine, but was cont●● with water. This manner of penance doing did saint Iohn baptist teach and dispute, contrary to the fa●se imaginations against penance, and wonderful devices of lewd lecherous living that these new spiritual men have in their fantasy framed/ which neither saint Iohn baptist nor such ten saint Iohn baptists, nor our saviour christ himself can dispute out of their heads.   

Tyndale.  
He believeth that he loveth god because he is ready to kill a Turk for his sa●e that believeth better in god than he/ whom god also commandeth us to ●●ue ●nd to leave nothing unsought to win him unto the knowledge ●f the truth, though with the loss of our lives.   

More.  
Here Tyndale followeth his master Luther that would have all christian men suffer the Turks and fight not with them. How be it I understand by Tyndale in his book after, that Luther hath eaten up his word again afterward for fere, when he saw his country prepare themself against the Turks. But now Tyndale that is out of such fere/ is as it seemeth disposed to maintain and set forth his masters former error again. For he layeth it to the charge of the catholical church, as a chief and principal fault that we take it as token of love to god if a man have a mind for god's sake to go fight against the Turks. But as madly as he mocketh it/ a good token is it of love to god for all that. For he that is for god's sake content in the defence of other folk his innocent christian brethren against the infidelies the enemies of god and them, to put his own life in pain and apparel of death: we may be bold with Tyndales licence while we have Luther's leave all ready to warrant that it is a token of good and ordinate love to god, and for god to his neighbour.  
For though we should love infidels to make them faithful and be glad to suffer for them/ if our suffrauns would bring them to the faith, yet are we not bounden to love them ●boue the household folk of christ, and famylyars of our own christian faith/ and namely so far, that while they come, not to learn the christian faith but to kill the christian men, a prince that hath the rule of us should suffer them to ●yll on and stolde still by and preach.  
I 〈◊〉 ●ot therefore but how holily so ever it pleaseth father Tin●●le here preach in favour of the Turks/ a prince may assemble his host, and of good zeal with great thank of god, go against them and kill them aswell and better to, then Moses killed the Egypcian that fought with the Hebrew.  
And therefore we shall not I trust greatly need to fere the great word that Tyndale in the Turks favour speaketh, against those that will go and fight against them/ where he saith that the Turk believeth better in god than such a christian man. wherein if Tyndale said true as god be thanked he lieth: how believeth then Tyndale himself in god, which (as his chartable books well declare) would be well content that heretics and infidels, should with sedition or open war kill up the clergy of the catholical church, and the great part of such good people bysyde, as would be adversaries to their pestyferouse heresies.   

Tyndale.  
He supposeth that he loveth his neighbour as much as he is bound, if he be not actually angry with him/ whom yet he will not help freely with an halfpenny, but for advantage or vain glory or for a worldly purpose. If any man have displeased him, he keepeth his malice in and will not cha●e himself about it, till he see an occasion to avenge it craftily, and thinketh that well enough. And the rulers of the world he obeyth thinketh he, when he flattereth them, and bindeth them with gifts and corrupteth the officers with rewards, and beguileth the law with cautels and sotyltyes. And because the love of god and his neighbour, which is the spirit and the life of all laws, and wherefore all laws are made, is not written in his heart: therefore in all inferior laws and in all worldly ordinances, is he beetle blind.   

More.  
All this gear is but a farthel full of lies/ and that woteth Tyndale himself well enough. For all be it that there be more than enough that in the catholical church of christ that use to commit such sins: yet use they not to think that they do well, and fulfil the law of god in doing/ but they both believe and confess the contrary, and to their confessor knowledge it as it is for sin.  
For though men in the catholic church do sin/ yet to take it for no sin, but for holiness & virtue/ this is neither the doctrine nor manner & gy●e of the catholic church of christ. But this is in very deed the belyea or at the le●te wise the guise and custom of Tyndales church & Luther's and frere Huskens. For they have the love of god and their neighbour, the spirit and life of all laws so well and wisely written in their hearts/ that they can not be but fervently taken in their lewd lecherous love/ nor be not in inferior laws and worldly ordinances so betyll blinded, but that a frere can find the way to a nuns bed and it be at midnight, and after in the open day abide thereby, and avow the breach of their vow boldly for very well done and holily/ and when he thus doth, beguileth not the laws with cawtels and subtleties, but boldly breaketh them up like a strong man, and beareth it out bygly with shameless devilish heresy.   

Tyndale.  
And if he be commanded to abstain from wine, that will he observe vnt● the death to/ as charterhouse monks had liefer die then eat flesh. And as for the soberness and chastising of the members will he not look for/ but will power in ale and bear of the strongest without measure, and heat them with spices and so forth.   

More.  
As for the monks of the charterhouse, would god we were no ferther from very virtuous devotion, than those good men be from unlawful superstition/ among whom god be thanked we see many live to very great age, and never heard I yet that any died for lack of eating flesh/ & yet herde● I never that any of them have eaten any, saving some such as have comen from their cloisters in to Luther's church/ as Otho did in Almaigne, which run out of the charter house and left fish and fell to flesh all together, and took a wife for soberness and chastising of his monkely membres as Tyndale speaketh.   

Tyndale.  
And the holy day will he keep so straight, that if he meet a flee in his bed he dare not kill her/ and not one's regard wherefore the holy day was ordained to seek for god's word/ and so forth in all laws.   

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Tyndale I think hath not known many keep the holy day so straight/ that would fear to kill a flee as it pleaseth him to jest. But yet● a● I liefer that men ●old keep it so straight as he speaketh/ thei● keep it so loosely as they do. But they that keep i●●o loosely/ be neither afeard I warr●●t you to kill a i'll nor to do ●●rs neither. And who so ever would keep it so straight, as 〈…〉 of a●●e in his bed: would keep it bett●r than do the 〈◊〉 of Luther's c●●●che, that let not on the holy 〈◊〉 to 〈…〉 to 〈◊〉. For as for hearing of God's word, in many places in Almaigne among their holy sects, where they were in the beginning wonderful hot upon sermons: they be now blessed by god waxed cold enough.  
first in many places they sang the service in their mother tongue, men and women and all/ and that was a pretty sport for them for a while. But after a little use thereof, the pleasure of the neweltye passed, and they set somewhat less thereby then by a three man's song. They changed also the mass/ and soon after that many cast it up cle●e.  
Then was all their lust laid upon preaching, specially because every man might preach that would/ saying that they followed the counsel of saint Paul/ while one would bid the preacher hold his peace a●● let him speak another while, 
1. Ceri. 14  affirming that the spirit 〈◊〉 reucled him the right sense, and that the preacher lied. 〈◊〉 ●●s turned they sermons in brawlings, so that sometime t●e people parted them from pointing their preachings with syste●● But now as I here say that manner is well amended/ th●●●an suffer one to preach as long as it please him, and no man once interrupt him/ for they be there waxe● women and all so cunning, that scantly come any to hear him. And thus doth Tyndales church and Luther's sit at home in their stews in honour of their holy day.   

Tyndale.  
And in ceremonies and sacraments there be c●pt yvateth his wit and vnderstandyng● to obey holy church, without asking what they mean or desiring to know/ but only careth for the keeping, and looketh ever with a pair of narrow eyes and with all his spestacles upon them lest ought be left out.   

More.  
The ceremonies and sacraments Tyndale maketh his mocking stokke/ but let him beware by time lest god mock him again.  
Better is it good 〈◊〉 reader to do the thing that Tyndale here reproveth/ that is to wit a 〈…〉 his wit and understanding and ob●● 〈…〉 in the ceremonies and sacra●●●●●●, and 〈…〉 well without ferther search: then to do as 〈…〉 done, that with his curious search hath s● 〈…〉 pried upon them, with betle bro●es and his bryt●● spectacles of pride and malice, that the devil hath stry●en him stark 〈◊〉 and set him in a corner with a chain and a clog, & made him his ape to sit there and serve him and to make him sport, with mocking and mowing and potting the sacraments, which yet the devil dreadeth himself & dare not come anere them.   

Tyndale.  
For if the pressed should say mas●e, baptyze, or here confession without a stole about his neck/ he would think all were marred, and doubt whither he had power to consecrate/ and think that the virtue of the mass were l●ste and that child not well baptized or not baptized at all/ and that his absolution were not worth a mite.   

More.  
This is another ferdell full of lies, and that he woteth well enough. For if the pressed left of his stole/ folk would then say he did lewdly as they might well say in deed. But Tyndale knoweth full well that folk do not reckon the sacrament hurted thereby. For he knoweth well that children be sometime crystened of the midwifes hand/ and the people knoweth well that she useth no stole. And thus every body well perceiveth how shameless Tyndale is in these lies.   

Tyndale.  
He had liefer that the bishops should wag two fingers over him/ then that another man should say god save him and so forth.   

More.  
Blessing of bishops Tyndale jesteth upon in more places than one. And for as much as he knoweth well that all christian people have and ever have had a good faithful believe in blessing, both where a man or woman bless them self, and also where as any that hath authority over them given by god to bless them, which is a kind of prayer and invocation of god's grace upon the party so blessed with the sign of the cross/ as the natural father or the godfather blesseth the child, or the curate his paryshen, or the bishop his diocesa●●e: such things Tyndale taketh for trifles, and laugeth such blessing and crossing to scorn.  
For in his book of obedience, the laying of the bishops hand upon the pressed in giving the sacrament of holy orders, he resembleth to the laying of a man's hand upon a boys h●d when he calleth him good son. And the blessing as he calleth it here the wagging of two fingers/ so he calleth it there the wagging of the hand in the air.  
How be it we need not much to marvel though Tyndale and Luther and frere Huskyn and their fellows, set little by the sign of the cross made by a man's hand in the air/ sith we see that they set so little by an image of the crucifix, and also by Crystes holy cross it self/ whereof Luther writeth that if he had all the pieces, he would cast them all there as never son should shine upon them. But all christian men sith Crystes death hitherward/ hath set much by that kind of blessing, in which the sign of the cross is made upon a man either by himself or by another. And not a few stories are there that testify great things done in the virtue of that sign/ not only among good christian men, but also sometime among evil men and the very infidels themself.  
And though that I intend not to prolong this work with writing of storyes● yet cometh there one to my mind so meet for the matter, and written by so great authority, that I can not let it pass.  

Grego. Nazi.  Saint Gregory Nazianzene the great famous old doctor, writing in his second oration made against the great emperor infidel commonly called julianus apostata, writeth that when that man was fallen from the faith of christ unto paganysme and gentylyte/ giving himself therewith not only to the persecution of christian men, but also to the following of every kind of supersticious folly: he took with him on a time certain necromancyers, and went in to a cave to conjure up spirits, to inquire of them certain things whereof he was very curious to know. And when he was in the pit among them with their conjurations, there appeared many terrible sights, so far forth that all be it with the trust of his conjurations he bore it out a while, yet at the last the terror and fear so sore increased, that he was fain for the surest refuge to bless himself with the sign of the cross, which he so pursued and hated. At which only sign so made with the wagging (as Tyndale calleth it) of his hand in the air, as evil an hand as it was: yet were all the devils so sore afraid, that all their fearful illusions failed & vanished quite away.  
Lo what a force and strength hath that fashion of blessing that Tyndale setteth a● so light wherein many a man daily findeth great profit, in avoiding of temtations of our ghostly enemy the devil, and in many a sudden fere of the fiend.  
And I little doubt but as Tyndale followeth julianus apostata in falling from the right faith: so would he at a need follow him also in blessing to. For as little as Tyndale setteth by blessing now: yet if he might once meet the devil in the dark, he would I warrant you cross and bless a pace. And I beseech our lord to give him grace so to bless himself by time, that he meet not the devil in eternal darkness, where who so myshape to meet him, can have no grace to cross and to bless himself/ but shall in stead of crossing and blessing, fall all to cursing and desperate sorrow and furious blaspheming without comfort and without end.   

Tyndale.  
Wherefore beloved reader in as much as the holy ghost rebuketh the world for lack of judgement/ and in as much also as their ignorance is without excuse/ before whose faces enough is set to judge by, if they would open their yies to see, and not captivate their understanding to believe lies/ and in as much ●s the spiritual judgeth all thing even the very bottom of god's secrets, that is to say the causes of the things which god commandeth: how much more ought we to judge our holy father's secrets, and not to be as an ox or an ass without understanding.   

More.  
It appeareth well that the holy ghost according to the words of our saviour at his last souper, which words Tyndale would falsely wrest a wry/ did rebuke the jews and the gentiles for lack of judgement, and that he taught the church of christ the true judgement/ by which ever synnies Crystes days by the judgement of holy saints and all good christian people bysyde, such things as now Luther & Tyndale and fxere Huskyn do teach, have been always judged for heresies. And this is open afore every man's yies/ except we would willingly captivate our understanding to believe Luther's lyese And therefore those that follow them of their ignorance/ have none excuse when they see against the hole consent of christendom so many hundred years continued, four our five fond freres run out of religion and living in lechery, take upon themself to preach and say to the people of themself, we be the spyrytuales, we search the bottom of god's secrets, we search the causes of god's commandment, we understand the scripture in his right sen●e/ and all that have been called holy doctors & interpreters before our days, were either false or fools, and have either of evil will or of ignorance brought all christian nations out of the right faith/ till now that god hath of his high goodness sent us & our wives to preach faith, and teach heresy, and show lechery/ to torn the world to grace.  
Now he that would in the declaration and understanding of the scripture of christ and his apostles, believe such a few fleshly blind apostatas against so many holy blessed doctors and saints: what excuse could his ignorans have afore god? were not he a very ox & an ass with out wit or understanding?   

Tyndale.  
judge therefore christian reader, whither the pope with his be the church.   

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when Tyndale speaketh of the pope with his/ here useth he a little sophistry. For he leaveth us in doubt what he meaneth by these words, the pope with his. If he mean the pope with his cardinals/ then speaketh he little to the purpose. For I never called nor no man else, the pope and the cardinals the hole catholic church. But if he mean by the pope and his, the pope and all the christian reams and countries that have not by schisms and heresies departed and severed themself from the corpse of christendom: he that than judgeth the pope and his to be the church of christ, judgeth as it is in deed.  
Now if Tyndale bring in question whither the pope be of all those christian countries the chief spiritual head under god and general vicar of christ: this question will not help him. For if there either yet be, or any time hath been, that either the Greeks or any other part of true christendom did not recognize the pope for their chief spiritual governor under god: yet alway those that were learned or good men among them, and the hole people with them, in the necessary articles were of the same faith, and confirmed themself to the see of Rome, in such things as among them began to be disputable/ as well appeareth not only by saint Chrysostome and other old holy doctor's of the Greeks, but also by the general counsels, in which the Greeks in matters of doubt and question, finally confirmed themself to the Latyns and to the see apostolic.  
And for conclusion both the Latyn church & the Greek church and praetor Iohnns church to, and every church that bore the name of any good christendom/ ye and every church also of any honest heretics to, and the church of paynims and Turks to, and the church of Saracyns to (sith Tyndale will have them all called churches) and finally the church of all mankind sins the earth was well inhabited, as many as ever have known so much as the name of god: hath ever hitherto dampened the church of Luther and Tyndale & frere Huskyn, that care not to break their promise made to god, and contrary to all honesty make mocks of their vows/ and void of shame avow their filthy lechery for honest wedlock and lawful matrimony.   

Tyndale.  
judge whither their author yte be above the scripture, whether all that they teach without scripture be equal with the scripture, whither they have erred and not only whither they can.   

More.  
judge here good reader whither that Tyndale play the part of an honest man, when the power & authority which the church ascribeth unto god and his holy spirit/ Tyndale would make you believe that they do take and ascribe it unto themself.  
For no man saith that any man is above the word of god/ but we say boldly that his word unwritten is equal and as strong as his word written/ and that he is aswell to be believed without writing as with writing/ & that himself and his holy spirit, understandeth his own writing better than all the creatures of the hole world. And then we say also that god by the mouth of our saviour hath promised that himself with his holy spirit shall ever be assistant with his ●hyrch/ & that he shall alway instruct his church and lead it in to every troth. 
Matth. 28. Iohn. 16  And we say that he keepeth, and ●uer hath kept, and ever shall keep that promise. And therefore we say that he teacheth his church all truth/ I mean all truth necessary as himself meant for their salvation, that is to wit all such thing as he will upon pain of damnation have them bounden to believe. I say also that upon this it must needs follow, that all be it our lord doth suffer his church to err in the knowledge of a ●●●te or deed done among men: yet will he never suffer it to err and be deceived in the knowledge of his law, to which he will have it bounden, and in the time in which he will have it bounden thereto. And therefore will he never suffer his church to take, repute, & judge a thing for sinful and damnable, that is of truth good & pleasing to god. For than should he thereby cause his church to leave good vertuose things undone themself, and also to forebede it other folk as things vicious and displeasant to god/ and then were his promise broken, sith that the holy ghost had not then taught them the truth necessary, but had suffered them to be led in to dampuable untrowth.  
Then say I ferder that it consequently followeth also, that god shall much less suffer his church to take for good and pleasing to god the thing that is very nought and odious unto god and damnable to it self. For than should his church by such error not only leave the good undone, but also do the evil, and not know which way to mend it. And of these things I say that it followeth necessarily, that though the church be not above the scripture and holy writ: yet it is so taught by the spirit of god and his holy secret in ward word unwritten, that it can not be damnably deceived in the understanding of his holy scripture written. And thereupon yet farther followeth, that all such as so construe the scripture that they would make the scripture seem to be contrary to the faith of Cristes' church: do damnably construe it contrary to the teaching of god and his holy spirit. which by his own promise doth alway teach his church, and alway leadeth it and always shall lead it, in to every necessary troth/ and that unto th'end of the world according to the words of our saviour christ himself.  
Of these points Tyndale denieth us three. One is that any thing is certainly to be believed, except only the scripture, and yet that must be as Luther saith evident open and plain/ of which the contrary hath been so often proved unto him, so evident, open, and plain, that if Tyndale were not evident, open, and plain shameless, his heart would never serve him for very shame to speak any more of that point. The t●ther point is, that he denieth the catholic known church to be the church of christ, and putteth it in question which is the church/ and finally putteth for the church of Criste here militant in earth the only secret unknown folk that are predestinate. The third is that he putteth also in question, whither the church may fall in to damnable error. And thereto he saith that the church of elects doth err, but yet it doth not err. And for asmych as these things be the chief things whereof his book treateth, like wise as they that have wit and learning do all ready find his handling of these matters full of malice & very void of truth: so I trust when we come hereafter to the places, to make right mean learned folk and mean witted to perceive that all his high invention that he would have seem so sooth, is in very deed a very mad man's dream.   

Tyndale.  
And against the mist of their sophystr●ye take the ensamples that are passed in the old testament, and authentic stories, and the present practise which thou seest before thine yies.   

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we be well content that these things try the mist of both parties/ so that Tyndale take with him one thing or twain more, which I marvel wherefore he now leaveth out, saving that he seeth well that they will clearly dyssypate and discuss the mist that he fain would walk in. For else why leaveth he clean out the new testament now. we must pray him that we may take in that to.  
And for asmych as we do on both the sides agree upon the text of scripture, and that the question much lieth whither Tyndale and his fellows understand it right or else the hole church of all christian nations: we shall pray him to be content that we may lay forth in the behalf the mind of the old holy doctors and saints, which wrote of these matters so many hund●ed y●●es ere ever this business began, and wrote not for the pleasure of either other party. And them will we the rather allege, because Tyndale aswell in his book of obedience, as in divers places of this book is not ashamed to say● that we will not believe the old holy doctors, but that they ●o and be of the belief that those holy fathers were/ and as I say he is not ashamed to write this, ye and that very often, when he woteth well that among them all he can not find one that ever believed other, but that it was a shameful abominable sy●e a monk to marry a 〈◊〉, which thing hereafter in this book Tyndale so foolishly 〈◊〉, that saving for pity to see any man so mad, one that ●●ye sore sick could not forbear to laugh at it.   

Tyndale.  
judge whither it be possible that any good should come out of their dumb ceremonies and sacraments in to thy soul. judge their penounce, pysgrymages, pardons, purgatory, praying to posts, dumb blessings, dumb absolutions, their dumb patering and hallowing, their dumb strange holy gestures, with all their dumb disgysynges, their satisfactions and iustefyenge. And because thou syndest them false in so many things/ trust them in nothing, but judge them in all things.   

More.  
judge good christian reader whither it be possible that he be any better than a beast/ out of whose brutish bestely mouth, cometh such a filthy foam of blasphemies against Christ's holy ceremonies and blessed sacraments, sent in to his church out of his own blessed bloody side. And for because ye find this fellow so frantic and so false in the ray raylynge and jesting against the sacraments of christ: ye may well judge that who so can delight or be content with his blasphemous rybauldy, hath great cause in himself to fere that his christian faith beginneth to fail and faint.   

Tyndale.  
Mark at the last the practise of our fleshly spirytualtye, and their ways by which they have walked above eight ho●dred years/ how they stablish their lies first with falsyfyenge the scripture, then thorough corrupting with their riches whereof they have infinite treasure in story, and last of all with the sword.   

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ye marry mark I pray you. For this is much to be marketh lo, that Tyndale can not bear the flesshelynes of our spirituality, because the flesshelynes of their church is spiritual. For the fleshly wedded harlots of their church be their chief holy spiritual fathers, and holy spiritual mothers, monks, freres, and nuns. And because their holy church is but new begun/ Tyndale would we should ween, that this viii hundred year and more Criste hath had no church in the world at all. For so long saith Tyndale all hath be nought/ by the reason that all this while the clergy hath falsyfyed the scripture, and hired men with gifts, and compelled them with the swer●e to believe them/ & so all this viii hundred years saith Tyndale by these means all the christian nations have in stead of true faith believed false lies, and so have been out of the faith & all nought.  
If Tyndale did not lie now, as blessed be god he doth/ here had been a great gap in christendom this xu C. year. And where had Crystes promise been then all this while? with his elects? Nay if this church have had all this while false sacraments/ christ hath had none elects all this while. For they have used what so ever Tyndale say, the same sacraments that their neighbours did.  
I would also that he had told us how much more than xv. C. years the church hath had false sacraments/ lest that that he calleth now more, he shall hereafter call yet much more. For thereto shall he be feign to fall, or else to call these viii C. bakke again, and confess the sacraments true/ or finally (which he is most likely to do) babble on still against all reason against all good men and against all scripture/ and so that he be talking never care what, whereof, nor how. For I am sure that in the sacraments and in the knowledge of the church, his malicious folly is reproved by the old holy doctors above his viii C. year almost as many more, and over that by plain scripture to.   

Tyndale.  
Have they not compelled the emperors of the earth and the great sordes and buy officers, to be obedient unto them, to dispute for them/ and to be their tormentors/ and the samsumyms themselves do but imagine mischief and inspire them.   

More.  
Here is all the great anger that grieveth this good man/ that either lord, king, or emperor meddleth any thing for the maintenance of the faith, or set to their hands to the repressing of heresies.  
But if Tyndale find this for a fault/ he must go far above his viii C. year. For it is far above a thousand synnies that as evil lords, princes, and emperors, have holpen and maintained heretics/ so like wise good lords, princes, & emperors have set to their hands to subdue them. And their maintainers have vanished away with them, and their amenders and punysshers god hath maintained and favoured/ and good godly men have called upon princes for theyr● aid and assistance in such case, and at their instance and pursuyt have princes and emperors both punished them, & made many good laws against them.   

Tyndale.  
Mark whether it were ever truer than now. The scribes, pharisees, Py●late, Herode, Cayphas, and Anna/ are gathered together against god and Criste, but yet I trust in vain/ and that he that broke the counsel of Achitophel, shall scatter theirs   

More.  
Mark now good christian reader when Tyndale hath told us that the right faith is heresy and heresy right faith/ and when he weeneth that he hath made men so wise, that we would at his word take white for black and black for white, and god for the devil, and the devil for god: then when he weeneth that he hath made men so blind, he biddeth look and mark that all emperors, kings, princes, lords and prelate's, and every kind of christian people that any thing do or say against heretics/ all they be Pilate'S, Herodes, Cayphas, and Annas, and are gathered against christ saith Tyndale, that is to wit in deed against heretics that labour both with false heresies to destroy the true faith of christ, and also with their traitorous setting forth of seditions to raise rebellions as they did in Almaigne, and thereby destroy Crystes good christian people.  
For surely good reader though men may have faith and yet lack charity, as saint Paul saith, and saint jamis to, 
1. Cori. 13 Jacobi .2.  every one of which two is worthy more faith and credens, then fifteen hundred thousand Tyndales that telleth us the contrary/ but though a man may as I say have faith and lack charity: yet if he lack faith, he may well have love, but he can not have no charity.  
And therefore sith Tyndale is thus run out of the right faith/ never trust his false love lakking charity. For surely to win his conclusion, and bring in his heresies, and to get thereof the vain glory to be taken for an apostle: he would see seven cities burn & warm himself by the fire.  
And even in this place he maketh a manner of motion thereof, showing himself to have some trust to work wonders at length. For he maketh as though the princes that would repress heresies were as Absalon with his army & achytophell therein, that preserve king David/ as though frere Luther & his wife, with his fond fellows & their lemans, were like to king David and his host. And then hath Tyndale a trust that some Chusye that is some chyeftayn of Luther's counsel, which he meaneth as it seemeth shallbe himself/ shall by his high wisdom make as though he were a faithful friend and beguile all the company, and so scatter them and make them to be taken and slain, as Absalon was and his folk. But like wise as Tyndales hold story serveth here all against his purpose, because that here the truth doth of good mind labour to put down falsehood/ an Tyndale with his master & his fond fellowship with their feigned fair holy speech like absolon with his fair here, enforce themself to bring in false heresies and destroy the true faith: why Tyndale should be like to Chusy that can I nothing see, saving only for one thing, that for policy Chusy made a lie, and therein Tyndale over matcheth him far, for he saith never true.   

Tyndale.  
Mark whither it be not true in the highest degree, that for the sin of the people hypocrites shall reign over them. What shows, what faces, and contrary pretences are made/ and all to stablish them in their theft, falsehood, and damnable lies/ and to gather them together for to contrive sotyltye, to oppress the truth, and to stop the light, and to keep all still in darkness.   

More.  
Tyndale is a great marker/ there is nothing with him now but mark, mark, mark. It is pity that the man were not made a marker of chases in some tenies play. For in good faith he should be therein much better occupied than he is in this/ when he sitteth and marketh all other men's faults and leaveth his own unmarked/ which every other man marketh well enough.  
He biddeth the people mark that their princes are hypocrites in the highest degree/ and so he teacheth their subjects to have them in good opinion and reverens. But I am glad as help me god on the other side, that the holy spiritual heads of Tyndales heresies, as frere Luther & frere Huskyn, and all the hole pakke of the principal fathers of all their frantic sects, have left of a piece of their hypocrisy, and by their filthy wedding showed themself plain open ribalds.   

Tyndale.  
Wherefore it is time to a wake and see every man with his own eyes and to judge, if we will not be judged of christ when he cometh to judge. And remember that he which is warned hath none excuse, if he take no heed. Here with fare well in the lord Jesus christ, whose spirit be thy guide and doctrine thy lygth to judge with all. Amen.   

More  
Tyndale never spoke better than he doth even here. For of troth good christian reader it is high time to awake and look every man with his own eyes/ and that time was never so convenient as now. For in all other heretics before this time/ every man was not able to perceive them with his own eyes. heresies were commonly somewhat subtile and had apparent texts in scripture, that falsely taken seemed to make for them. And then had their living such a pretence of honesty and cleanness/ that these things so bleared the unlearned people's eyes, that they were not able to judge these men and their matters every man himself with his own eyes/ but they followed the judgement of wiser and better and better learned/ and by their teaching and good holy doctrine, they saw and perceived the other feigned and false.  
But marry now god hath (lawd and thank be to him) brought these fellows and their heresies in another case. For he hath suffered them of his high goodness to show themself at last, & to fall in to such open bestely fawtes, freres & nuns creeping to bed together, and then to preach & teach their shameless lechery boldly about for god & lawful matrimony, that they have thereby now set out their gear so syghtely, that every man may well & plainly see such open ribaldry with his own eyes, and well and easily judge the thing for sin and bestely bichery, and the defence thereof for a shameful shameless heresy, and the preachers thereof for more than monstruose heretics. And therefore of this be Tyndales words well verefyed/ that every man may and must awake, and see with his own eyes this abominable bichery of these bold bestely preachers, that lay freres and nonnies abed together and call them man and wife. This must every man judge for abominable heres●e/ if we will not be judged of christ when he cometh to judge.  
And therefore when Tyndale closeth up his preface with a solemn threte/ bidding men to remember now that he which is warned hath none excuse if he take none heed: he saith as true as the gospel but all against himself. For this open heresy of frere's filthy matrimony giveth us so plain and open warning of their worldly fleshly devylysshe spirit, so plain against all holy scripture and all good honest men: that we never could have excuse afore god, if we would give such preachers so bold in such ribaldry, either faith or credence or favourable hearing: namely sith there was never in all christendom sith the faith first begun any holy doctor, nor doctor good or bad before Luther's days that any thing hath written/ but he hath abhorred and detested it to the devil of hell, that ever any person either man or woman, that hath vowed themself monk, frere, or nun/ should afterward run out of their religion, cast their vow at their back, and fall to flesh and wed.  
And therefore good christian readers, sith holy scripture hath warned you of such teachers as Tyndale is that teacheth such bestely wedding with contempt of their holy vows made before to god/ and sith that all holy men that have written upon scripture have given us warning that it is plainly prohibited, as well by the true sense of scripture as by the plain open words/ and all good honest people of cristendom this xu hundredth year have had such bestely wedding in great abomination/ and now ye see that all the captains of these pestilent heresies which Tyndale now teacheth you, have given you warning themself by their own deeds in their named wedlock their very sinful lechery, that they themself be such as all this xu C. year before, the scripture hath reproved and all the world hath wondered on/ and sith ye see Tyndale now teach and allow their lechery and avow it solemnly for god and lawful matrimony: I nothing fear your judgement in this matter. For I make me bold in our lord, that ye be so wise in the wisdom of god and so fastened in his faith, that when ye here an high holy word come out of such a mouth as praiseth monks marriages and mocketh Crystes sacraments, and then preacheth like a player in a fond interlude/ & playeth sometime the frere, sometime the fox, sometime the fool, and sometime the out right rybawde: ye will not be so unwise to ween that he were an holy man and therefore hearken to him/ but take him such as ye see he is, and let the devils dysour go. delight not in his devilish doctrine, that ye see yourself is nought, what so ever he set therewith to make it seem solemn: but cleave ye fast to the faith of Criste which Tyndale goth about to destroy/ and believe the old father's that ye see be saints in heaven. For as Tyndales interpretation of scripture and the vices byelded thereupon, is the very broad way to lead men to hell: so is those holy saints expositions with the virtues that they taught and showed, the very straight path that leadeth folk to heaven. In which our lord for his painful passion give us all grace so to walk/ that we come together to that place, where we may find our charity not changed but increased & perfayted, our hope turned in to having and possession of bliss, and our faith converted & changed in to clear and lyghtsom knowledge/ of which faith Tyndale so preacheth us the name, that who so believe him well, is like to lose all the fruit   
¶ Thus endeth the first book.   

¶ The second book which confuteth the defence of Tyndale for his translation of the new testament  

An answer unto the first chapter of Tyndales book, why he translateth this word church in to this word congregation.  
IN the beginning of my dialogue I showed that Tyndales translation of the new testament was well worthy to be burned / because it well showed in it self that he had of an evil mind translated it in such manner of wise, as it might serve him for a principal instrument, toward the setting forth of all such heresies as he had learned of Luther, and intended to send over hither and spread a broad within this realm/ the troth of which my saying Tyndale and his fellows have in such open fashion testified and declared themself, that I need for myself, in that point to use no farther defence.  
For every man well seeth that there was never english book of heresy sent hither sins (as there hath been many, some particularly against the blessed sacrament of the altar, as was the devilish dialogue of the father and the son, and the blasphemous book of the burying of the mass, whereof our lord be thank the maker is graciously turned again to god/ and some were against purgatory, & some against almost all together that good is in Cristes' church/ as are the books of Tyndale himself, his wicked mammona, his obedience, and diverse other) in all these ever more one piece of their complaint hath been the burning of Tyndales testament. For surely first his false translation with their farther false construction/ they thought should be the base and the tenor whereupon they would sing the trouble with much false descant. And therefore very hot they take it, that the goodness of the kings grace with the lords of his honourable counsel and the clergy of the realm, have burned up their false prykked books.  
So was it now that among other tokens of Tyndales evil intent in his translation/ I showed as for ensamble that he changed commonly this word church in to this word congregation, and this word pressed, into this word senior, and charity in to love, and grace in to favour, confession in to knowledge, and penance in to repentance/ with many words more which he changeth and useth daily, as in turning idols in to images, and anointing in to smering, consecrating in to charming, sacraments in to ceremonies, and the ceremonies in to witchcraft, and yet many more.  
Now showed I there the causes why Tyndale did evil in translating the scripture in to our tongue with such manner changes/ and showed also the things that might well make every man perceive that he meant therein the setting forth of some heresies, as appeareth in my said dialogue, which things if I should here again rehearse and repeat, and in like wise all other things against which Tyndale doth object: it were to long a work, and as much as to plant and set in to this book mine hole dialogue agayne● wherefore in all such things I must needs remit the reader unto the dialogue self.  
Now cometh Tyndale and for answer thereof, and to disprove all that I lay against him in the translating of divers of these words: showeth that the latin text and the greek may be his excuse and defence/ for as much as the words in the latin text & the greek, do as he saith signify such things as he hath expressed in his english translation, by those english words that I find the fault in. But first to what purpose serveth all his defence? when he hath sins himself, proved by his own other books, that he is an heretic/ and that his heresies be such, as it must needs make it clear, that though another man translating the testament and being good & faithful, might have used happily those changes among, without evil meaning or any suspicion thereof: yet he sith those chaungeꝭ so served for his heresies, must needs be, not suspected, but manyfestley dedected and perceived to have used them being such so many and so often, not of any chance or good intent, but of very plain purpose to give his heresies in the ears of unlearned men, some colour of proof in the text of the new testament. And so might I now pass over vi or vii of the first chapters of his book, as things that serve him of right nought.  
But yet to the intent ye may the better perceive how wisely the man defendeth the matter, in such wise as he showeth both lack of learning, and more lakke of wit, & most lakke of grace: he doth at the last confess himself that he made the changes for the setting forth of his heresies/ which was the point that I laid to his charge, as the very thing for which his translation was very well worthy to be burned.  
Now let us first consider how he defendeth his change of this word church in to this word congregation.  
first to induce the matter as though he went about to make every thing very open and plain: he telleth us a long tale of little weight, that this word church hath divers significations. And then he maketh as though he would tell how many/ wherein when he hath all done, he leaveth out one of the very chief. For he telleth us that a church signifieth a place or a house where christian men were wont to resort in old time to here the word of god/ and he saith not to pray but to learn how and what to pray.  
Then he saith it hath a second signification, but that is he saith but miss taken and abused by which it signifieth the clergy/ whom it pleaseth to him in his railing manner to call a multitude of shaven, shorn, and oiled/ in mokkage and reproof not so much of the priests, as of the holy order of priesthood.  
A third signification he saith it hath/ by which it betokeneth a congregation, a multitude, or a company gathered together in one, as a man may call the church of London/ meaning not the spirituality only but the hole body of the city of all kinds, conditions, and degrees. And in this third signification he saith that though it be little known among the common people now a days: yet in this signification is he saith the church of god or christ taken in the scripture for the hole multitude that receive the name of christ to believe in him. And for the proof of this he layeth many places of saint Paul. Finally yet he remembreth himself at last, and addeth unto this as it were a note & saith.  

Tyndale.  
Not withstanding yet it is some time taken generally, for all that embrace the name of Criste though their faiths be nought, or though they have no faith at all. And sometimes it is taken specially for the elect only/ in whose hearts god hath written his law with his holy spirit, and given them a feeling faith of the mercy that is in christ jesus our lord.   

More.  
Lo now ye have herd how many manner of wise Tyndale teacheth us that this word church is taken. In which yet he hath left out one signification or twayen that this word plainly signifieth. One is that this word church beside all the significations that Tyndale hath here showed us: doth syginfye that part of the church that in synodis & counsels do represent the whole church. As when we say that there is a law made by the church that heretics shall not be suffered to preach/ like wise as a parliament representeth the hole ream, & is by the comen speech so called to/ as when we say that the realm hath made a law that heretics shallbe burned.  
The church also signifieth sometime a much less number that is to wit/ the only rulers or heads of the church. as where we be commanded to complain to the church/ it is not meant to all the whole town nor to all the clergy thereof, of, but to rulers and governors. Sith Tyndale hath taken upon him to show us here his high doctrine, how many manner of wise this word church is taken: it bylonged rather unto him to have taken in these sygnifycations, than some of them that he hath taken as ye shall see anon  
But first I marvel me much that Tyndall hath either clean left out or else put in so darkly, that he would not have it perceived that signification of this word church, that is one of the principal significations thereof, and whereupon the greatest weight of all our matter dependeth. And that is that signification, by which the church signifieth not as Tyndale taketh it in his third signification, for all a multitude gathered together in one, of all kinds, conditions, and degrees of people/ but of such only people as be christian people, and them not in one city only, but that hold number of every city, town, and village thorough out all the hole world: this signification Tyndale leaveth out clean, because it toucheth most the matter.  
For as for that he saith in his fore-repeated note: he seemeth but to set a specification of his third signification, as though he would mean it for the hole number of cyteseyns, or else for the only number of the elects with in some one city, as he there putteth London for his example. And if he would there name in his note the hole catholic church: I meruyle why he saith that it is called so sometime/ as though that signification were very rare and seld, where as of troth there is of the church no signification neither more great nor more comen, then that by which it is meant and taken for the catholic church and universal.  
How be it of troth Tyndale handleth his third signification very secondly, and fareth as one that would fain walk in the dark. For the places of scripture seem to speak of only christian people in this place and that. But his description of the church in that signification goeth far otherwise. For when he saith that it signifieth not only the clergy but the hole congregation, multitude, or company gathered in to one/ as a man would say the church of London, meaning not the spiritualty only but the hole body of the city, and all that pertain unto the town generally of all kinds, conditions, and degrees: of this signification surely few folk have herd. For though he name a christian city for a sample: yet may there be some cities and have been, and yet be some such in some other places/ that of the cyteseyns and of the hole body of the city, and of such as pertain unto the town generally/ not only be there christian priests and christian lay people/ but open cast out heretics also, ye and peradventure jews, Turks, and Saracens to, that be not crystened and all. And in some cities few christian people and the remanant infidels/ and such were the cities to whom the apostle wrote. And then I am sure when saint Paul spoke of the church of the Corynthyes or of the ephesians: he meant not in this Tyndales third signification after his description, all the hole body of the city, and all such as pertained thereto generally/ but the christian people only.  
Nor now also if Tyndale would speak of the church of London, where all the hole town is christian people: there would no man understand thereby th● hole body of the city, but the clergy only/ nor no man Tyndale except in speaking would so mean. But this darkness useth Tyndale/ because he would have it seem that this word church, which in the english tongue hath ever had a good signification & an holy in men's hearts: should seem to have sometime the contrary. Out of which darkness I shall draw Tyndale anon I trust/ and according to my poetry wherein he mocketh me, pull up cerberouse in to the light.  
But now let us first consider a little his first signification, where he saith, it signifieth a place whereunto christian people were wont in the old time to resort at times convenient, for to here the word of doctrine, the law of god, and the faith of our saviour christ, and how and what to pray, and whence to ask power and strength to live godly.  
why saith Tyndale here in the old time/ for all this we do in the new time to, how so ever Tyndale list to lie.  
Then goeth he ferther and lieth on lustily, saying that of Crystes promises nor of his mercy we know no thing at all/ as though no man had here herd ever any thing spoken, that mankind is redeemed by Crystes passion, & that he hath ordained his holy sacraments, and promised men grace that with faith and devotion receive them. Is not this man shameless so boldly to bear us all in hand, that we never here word of such things as every boy better believeth than he?  
For every child that is of competent age/ hath herd that god giveth by his holy ordinance (which ever includeth his promise) grace with all his vii sacraments/ where as Tyndale of seven taketh it a way fro five, and from almost one and an half of the other twain to.  
Every boy believeth, and believeth true/ that god hath promised reward to good works. And Tyndale will not believe the promise at all/ but denieth it plainly, as plainly as god saith it himself in many places of the very gospel.  
But then on the other side Tyndale telleth us, that god hath promised alway to every man the bliss of heaven for only faith alone. And here every boy believeth and woteth well he lieth.  
Now touching the mercy of our lord/ who can speak of Crystes passion and speak nothing of his mercy? This man is to mad to talk with. gods mercy is so great that no man can speak enough thereof. But the world waxeth such now a days/ y● as it is need to pray for mercy, so were it need to preach of God's justice, & put the people in mind of his wrath and indignation likely to fall upon us, if we give ear to such deadly doctrine as Tyndale teacheth/ and I pray god of his great mercy to give that man a better mind.  
yet goeth he ferther and saith, that of the law of god we think as did the Turks and the old heathen people/ that it is a thing which every man may do of our own power.  
what careth Tyndale what he say/ that careth not to write this, wherein every man's ears that would him well, glow for very shame that here him. where heard he ever any man say, that any man may fulfil the law of god of his own power. Marry this we say and say trowth, the man hath such power given of god that he may work with god's grace in the keeping of the law. But this can not Tyndale bear/ for their heresy is, that man toward the keeping of goddies precept, hath no fire will at all/ and now dyssymyling his own heresy he deadly byleyth us.  
Now of prayer he saith, we thynhe that no man may pray but at church/ and that it is nothing else but to say a pater noster to a post/ and that the observances and ceremonies of the church are vain things of our own imagination, neither needful to the taming of the f●esshe, nor profitable to our neighbour, neither honour unto god.  
Those lies come in by lumps lo. I dare say he never heard in his life man nor woman say, that no man may pray but at church.  
As true is it also that men say their pater noster to the post/ by which name it pleaseth him of his reverent christian mind to call the images of holy fayntes and our blessed lady, and the figure of Crystes cross, the book of his bitter passion.  
Though we reverence these in honour of the things which they represent/ and in the remembrnces of christ do creep to the cross and kiss it and say a pater noster at it: yet say we not the pater noster to it but to god/ and that woteth Tyndale full well, but that he listeth to rail.  
As for that he sayeth of the service, ceremonies, and observances of the church, which he calleth here vain imaginations, howling, buzsing, and crying out like halowynges of the foxes or baiting of bears, & thus he saith it is now/ but of old time he saith that the officers appointed there unto, preached the pure word of god only, and prayed in a tongue that every man understood.  
As for preaching of the pure word of god: I must wit of Tyndale whither he mean the word written or unwritten or both. If he say they preached the word of god both written and unwritten and only that: then I say so do we now to. Peradventure he will say that the preachers now lay thereto the ●ide holy doctors: I say that therein they lay but god's word/ for they lay them for the better understanding of god's word written, and for the better knowledge of god's word unwritten. For we be very sure that it is his word when we see that all the holy doctors that spent their life in the study of his word, and in the keeping of his word, and the preaching of his word: do testify from age to age by their holy writing, that those words unwritten which the church believeth were and be his words, as well and as verily as those that be written in any part of scripture.  
Then if Tyndale will say that our preacheours preach Aristotle, philosophers, and poets: thereto I say that they sometime speak of philosophers in things of nature or of moral virtues. And if this new apostle now saint Tyndale take this thing for so great an heinous crime: them is he surely much more apostolical than was Crystes old apostle Poule. For he letted not in his epistle to the Romans to allege and allow the philosopher's cunning, though he disproved and dispraised the folly of their fall & wretchedness of their living. 
Titi. 1  And in his epistle to Titus he took it for no sin to allege the poets versys/ but in the dispraise of them of Crete for using of Tyndales fashion in dying, and also in giving the world warning to beware of such as Tyndale is/ whose evil words and sermons do corrupt and mar men's good manners as his doth, where he would make men ween that good manners were nothing worth. And thus if Tyndale grant the tone part/ that is to say that of old time they preached both the word of god written and unwritten: then he winneth nothing/ for even so do they in the new time to.  
Now if he will not say they preached both of old time/ but that of old time they preached only the tone, that is to wit the word of god written: then must we wit of Tyndale which he calleth the old tyme. For this I wot well & so doth Tyndale to, that first of all, christ our saviour himself preached more than his word written, and promised also without writing, and was believed then without writing, that he would send the holy ghost that should teach his church all truth without writing/ & Cryst full truly fulfilled his promise without writing/ and yet will not Tyndale now believe him without writing/ and after Cristes' death did his apostles preach much more of god's word than was written. And therefore if Tyndale ground his argument upon the old time, and say that they preached only god's word written: I have driven him onward one step down/ for I have showed him here the oldest time and the best time of christendom, in which he can never wrest out but that he shall confess that all the christian prechours, that is to wit all the evangelists and all the apostles of christ, and christ himself also/ beside the scripture preached god's word unwritten as long as ever they lived. For I trust that Tyndale as mad as he is, is not yet so mad/ as to think that after that some of the apostles had written either gospels or pistles, that then they alleged their own writings for their authority or their own fellows either/ as though their own words & their own writing were not all of one credence.  
But now if Tyndale be not content to stand to that old time/ and will say that he spoke of old time but not of so ●lde: then ●yth he compareth the old time with this time that is now, we must ask him which time is that which he taketh for the old time in respect of this new time now. we call an old man ye wot well at fourscore year, and at an hundred year very old. will Tyndale stand to the time? will he stand at two hundred, three hundred, iiii, v, vi, seven, viii? Nay surely he will none of all those hundred. For he saith in his preface that all this eight hundred year and above/ the prechours have been false, and have falsyfyed the scripture. Now seemeth me that eight hundred year is in respect of now a meetly old tyme. And sith he saith that by all this old time they have not preached God's word well: I would know which is that old time in which they preached God's word well, and the word only written, without any preaching of any word of god unwritten, and took for vain and fa●se all that ever were called God's word, but if they found it written. Let Tyndale no● tell us that old tyme. For this must he tell us or else he taketh a fowl fall.  
Now will he make many shirts/ and ●● the last he shall be fain to fall both into his own poetry, and also in to his grammar again/ and come forth with his iii degrees of compacyson, old, elder, and eldest. And sith neither the oldest 〈◊〉 of christ and his apostles a●ay● serve him, because the 〈…〉 beside scryp●t●●e the ●●orde of god 〈◊〉 t●n/ nor 〈…〉 ty●● of eygh●● 〈◊〉 years now lanste passed, because they preached as Tyndale saith diverse sacraments, ceremonies, and promises as the words of god unwritten in which he saith they preached false/ but he will take an elder time than this, and not so old as that, that is to wit the time next after the apostles days/ and he will say that all the words of god were then all ready written by the evangelists and the apostles/ so that there was none of God's words left unwritten/ and therefore after their days by a certain time the true preachers preached purely the bare word of god written in holy scripture: well now be Tindale and I comen at last to some point. For he saith a thing here, with which he answereth me well, and with good grammar saving for his poetry, for that marreth all his matter. For I say surely that he saith not troth/ but that of god's words they wrote not all/ but divers things were by god to them and by them to other taught by mouth, and by tradition from hand to hand delivered, and from age to age hitherto continued in Crystes church. And that I say truth in this point/ I have divers good and honest witnesses to bring forth when time requireth/ saint austin, saint Hyerom, saint Cyrpian, saint Chrysostem, and a great many more/ which have also testified for my part in this matter more than a thousand year a go. yet have I another ancient sad father also/ one that they call Origene. And when I desired him to take the pain to come and bear witness with me in this matter, he seemed at the first very well content. But when I told him that he should meet with Tindale: he blessed himself & shrank bakke, and said he had liefer go some other way many a mile than once meddle with him. For I shall tell you syrquod he/ before this time a right honourable man very cunning and yet more virtuous, the good bishop of Rochester, in a great audience brought me in for a witness against Luther and Tyndale even in thy● same matter, about the time of the burning of Tyndal's evil translated testament. But Tyndale as soon as he heard of my name/ without any respect of honesty fell in a rage with me and all to rated me, and called me stark heretic, and that the starkeste that ever was. This tale Orygene told me & swore by saint Symkyn that he was never so said unto of such a lewd fellow sins he was first borne of his mother/ and therefore he would never meddle with Tyndale more. Now in deed to say the truth it was not well done of Tyndale to leave reasoning and fall a scolding, chyding, and brawling, as it were a bawdy beggar of byllyter lane. Fie for shame he should have favoured & forborn him somewhat, and it had been but for his age. For Origene is now xiii hundred year old or there about/ and this was not much above vii year sins.  
Now if this made Tyndale bold to set Origene as short as his old shone, because saint Hierome found some faults in his works: he must remember again that many a good man, and among those saint Pamphilus the blessed martyr/ found in Origenes doctrine so much erudition, devotion, & virtue, bysyde that they verily thought those errors none of his/ nor never were there any such fa●tes founden in his writing while himself lived, nor no man offended with him, & many places in his books plain that seem to say the contrary. And therefore many good men thought and yet thing, all be it saint Hierome thought otherwise (as he might well enough while that point no thing pertaineth to the faith) that chose heresies were put in to his books after his death by some that were heretics in deed/ and would for the great estimation that Origene● was in through all the church, anaunce their own heresies forward under the name and standard of his famous authority.  
But granted now that those fa●tes were his which were imputed unto him, yet is this none of them. But saint 〈…〉 so 〈…〉 Tyndales scolding, accepted and taken 〈◊〉 all 〈…〉 will I bring in with him some other that I have named/ and yet other more bysyde, that shall as I said testify with me before this book be done/ that god hath taught his church many things whereof in the scripture his word is yet unwrytem.  
But now will I for the mean while touching this point whereupon the great weight of all the matter hangeth, go nearer unto Tyndale another way.  
It is ye wot well agreed between us/ or if he would be so mad to say nay, ye will yet yourself agree this in his stead: that once of old time christ himself and his apostles did teach and preach m●ny words of god unwritten.  
Now thus I say, sith many things were taught first unwritten if any of them be yet left unwritten/ then say I that Tyndale is at the lest wy●e temerarious & over bold, so certainly to affirm that any sacrament that the church useth and so long hath used, or ceremony either, is idolatry/ for as much as if we lacked sure proof upon our side (which in deed we lack not by reason of god's spirit by Crystes own promise ever abiding with his church, and teaching it all truth/ but if we lack I say that proof for our part) yet were he to presumptuousely bow so precisely to affirm the contrary/ sith he can not say nay but that they might be some of those that were sometime to●ghte unwritten, and yet remain observed unwritten/ as the other that now be written were taught & kept without writing before.  
To this will Tyndall answer, that sy●●●● that time all god's words, promises, & sacraments that he would have kept and believed in crys●●ndome: he hath caused to be written, by his evangelists and apostles/ and left n●ne unwritten, to 〈…〉 that his church shall not stand in any d●wte nor fall into any error of any necessary point for lack of writing/ but mo●e uknown by that he hath caused all to be written, that all be false and feigned, and ●●ennys mad inventions that they believe and observe unwritten. For w●y should he ●●●se some to be written and suffer some left unwritten/ to make men sure of some, and to leave some in 〈◊〉  
〈…〉 cause/ for he seeth why well enough, and therefore I will give no reckoning why god hath caused some to be written and some to be left unwritten. But this will I be bold to say/ that he was not of any necessity compelled to write any one sacrament or ceremony or weighty point of believe, for any fere lest it should fall away/ and that he could not with his own spirit keep it in men's hearts and usage without writing, as well as he kept in the good generations the knowledge of his promises and his laws long and many ages before the law was written/ and yet wrote them not all therein neither, but the people had a faith of christ among them more large than was written in their law/ which went from hand to hand I think from Adam's days, to whom it is likely that god made after his fall some larger promise and revelation of his redemption again, than we find made unto him written in any place of scripture. But we shall not need much proof for this matter/ for that god was able to keep all his sacraments and articles of the faith without writing, Tyndale I ween will not deny me.  
Now to say that if he should have left some unwritten, it would have made dowtes and debates and be occasions of errors and heresies/ and the writing doth put all things out of doubt, and therefore god hath left none unwritten: we see that this maketh neither more sure nor less. For as well did men believe before the writing those things that are now written, as ever they did synnies/ and we believe now the promises as well that are unwritten as any that are written. And the writing taketh not away all the dowtes/ but as many rise thereupon, and many more than upon those things that we believe unwritten.  
For first the credence to be given to the hole book in which they be written/ hangeth all upon the same faith upon which dependen the things that are unwritten. For as I believe the tone so believe I the t'other. And as one may by his own frowardness lack the grace to believe the things unwritten: so may another by his own malice lack the grace to believe any part of the hole book of holy scripture that is written/ and take it all for fantasies. And in good saith I am afeard that so do they which say they believe nothing else but it. For as for part of the book they bring in que●●y●̄/ 〈◊〉 book of the Maccabees, by cause it maketh question/ as against their purpose concerning purgatory. And part they let not much to deny/ as Luther doth the epistle of saint jamies, because it speaketh plainly against his idle workelesse faith.  
Now in that parts which they grant for scripture: yet taketh it not away all the dowtes. But unto such folk as Tyndale is and Luther, that be so contencyouse: it ministereth rather much matter of doubt and of debate, & that much more than do the things that are observed without writing.  
For first they refuse to observe them, because they say they find them not there written/ & so riseth that question first upon the writing.  
Then if it be founden there: then dispute they whither it be fully founden there/ as whither we find there both the token and the thing betokened. For the sacrament take they but for a bare sign/ and the thing that is signified they call no thing but Crystes only promise. And here make they upon the writing many great battles, to beat down almost all the sacraments, saving scant one and an half. Then upon the letter raise they many great errors, and say the scripture is plain upon their side. And this say not only Luther, Tyndale, and Swynglius with frere Huskyn and his fellows, against the interpretation of all holy doctors and saints, and the comen faith of all true christian people xu hundred year before them: but each of themself also against other among themself say and swear that the scripture is plain for their part.  
So that as for necessity of writing all or any part concerning the sacraments, ceremonies, or articles of the faith, god was not driven thereto/ nor by the writing be taken away the dowtes. But as I wot it well that god had good and great causes why he caused some things to be written: so had he causes as good why he left some unwritten. But neither can Tyndale tell why he should write all, nor I give the reckoning why he left some unwritten.  
To this will Tyndale happily say (for else can not I see what he can say) that god hath caused all his words spoken to his church to be written in holy scripture/ and hath in the same scripture given us plain warning that he so hath done/ and thereby hath he delivered us from diverse dowtes though not from all. For all be it the diverse dowter yet rise upon the writing: we, by his express warning in writing showing that all is written/ be put out of all doubt, that we shall believe nothing as his word whereof there is no writing.  
Surely if Tyndale tell me this tale as in deed he doth/ for both Luther and he and frere Huskyn and Swynglius, and all the rabble of that rascayle/ never cease to say this/ and they find fools that believe them better upon their bare words, than they would more honest men upon their obligations/ but now as I say if Tyndale tell me this tale: I shall by his leave be bold to deny it him/ and pray him once to prove it if he can find how. For this I wot well, they have among them made great boast a great while/ & alway promised that they will byeld up that tower/ and make it very strong and sure/ and surely so have they great need to do, for therein lieth all the store of all their gun powder, brimstone, pitch, & wild fire, that they shoot out at the blessed sacraments of our saviour christ. And as for hitherto, brought they never yet so much good stuff, as would make a tile pin to fence their fortress withal. And what so ever they bring hereafter: they shall make poor paper walls.  
But to th'intent that they shall not bygyle you: let us with one word or two put them in remembrance what things they be that they must needs prove, and that by plain scripture to/ for other proof themself will none admit.  
Tyndale must prove me first therefore by plain & evident scripture, that all the words necessary to remain & be known, which our saviour himself and his apostles taught once without writing: all those he hath caused to be by them and his evangelists written, preserved, and kept, in plain and evident scripture. when Tyndale hath proved this, for which I dare give him respite till domes day: then must he yet by plain and evident scripture proof me farther lo/ & for the proof thereof though the points be but easy, let him take yet his time fifteen days after, within which he must I say by plain and evident scrip●●●● proof me farther yet of these two things one/ that is to wy●●●ther that every necessary word which god hath spoken by himself and his holy spirit unto his church, sins the d●th of his four evangelists and his xii apostles/ he hath caused to be also secretly set in and written to these books which Tyndale agreeth for holy scripture/ or else must he proof me by plain and evident scripture, that not withstanding his promise made unto his church in his apostles days, that he would with his holy spirit speak to his church himself and dwell therewith and teach it all truth from time to time all days even to the day of doom: yet as soon as he saw his apostles deed, & no man that heard him left to bear us witness what he said/ he began to go from his word again, & swore that he would either no longer dwell here with his church/ or if he came, it should be but a geste wise/ and yet would he play mum to, and neither by himself nor his holy spirit vouchsafe to speak any one word unto them, that were at the lest wise aught worthy the writing but some wanton trifle.  
Remember now good reader that these be the things which Tyndale hath to prove. And when he proveth these few things/ then believe him hardly and so will I do to. But surely who so believe him with any less/ under standeth nothing what the matter meaneth.  
Now yet once again let us consider Tyndales old time/ in which he saith the true pure preaching was used that is now quite gone. I would ask him when ended that old time of his/ and when began his new. He saith it hath been thus as it is more than this viii hundred years/ and me thinketh viii hundred is a very long now. But yet consider good reader if the true preaching was left and gone viii year a go and more: then can he not say nay but that the true faith went quite away therewith/ without which can be no church of christ neither catholic nor of elects. And thus doth Tyndale tell us that this viii year at the last our lord hath broke his promise/ by which he promised to be with his church all days to the worlds end. This man maketh high boast of Crystes promises/ & would with them destroy all virtue safe faith. And now ye see that plainly he denieth Crystes promise to/ and will I ween at last deny even christ and all. For as ye see at your eye, he draweth very fast toward it.  
Now till Tyndale therefore have proved us these few points that are for their falsehood impossible to be proved: the church shall not need for his fond railing any thing to fere, to use the devout sacraments & ceremonies taught and delivered them by god and his holy spirit. For spite whereof the devil and his damned spirits cry upon to have them left of/ and bear us in hand that they be fruitless. For Tyndale saith that they neither tame the flesh, nor do good to thy neighbour, nor be honour to god.  
But now doth all good christian people very well perceive by Crystes own promise in the very written gospel/ that the church of christ is taught by his holy spirit, that these sacraments and ceremonies do please god. And they perceive and see also that the holy saints which have used them before our days/ be now long a go rewarded in heaven with god. And they perceive also that in the use thereof/ their minds risen and be lift up a loft in devotion to god/ and b● these things and such like they perceive well that Tyndale doth but bylye them. For sith God's spirit hath ●aught them/ they must needs be honour to god. And when men come together to honour god, each of them is ꝓfyt●●le to other/ for else were their assembly together in pr●your no difference from the prayer of one man alone. But when they come together to God's service/ the hold company pr●●eth for the hole presence, and so is everich the better for ●thers praiour/ 〈◊〉 all people the better both for the prayou● and the sacrament, and every devout obser●ou●s used in the church at the divine service.  
And it is thirdly very profitable to the very taming ●f the flesh also. For what thing is there that better 〈…〉 flesh than the grace of god. Did not god 〈…〉 ●a●le when he thrice prayed unto him to wythdraw●●he prykke of the flesh, 
2. Cori. 12  with which our lord suffered 〈◊〉 angel● of Satan to vex him, lest his heart 〈…〉 wax proud in beholding the 〈…〉 of his revelations/ which though 〈…〉 for some other kind of tribulation, 〈…〉 the very fleshly mocy●n 〈…〉 not then our lord I say 〈…〉 S●ffyseth unto the my 〈…〉 then sy●h 〈◊〉 can better ●ame the flesh 〈…〉 god/ which not only can tame it but also 〈…〉 so resisted by the soul, that the 〈…〉 to ●●ryte & 〈◊〉 why shall 〈…〉 as the spirit of good hath 〈…〉 which obediently done with devotion and with desire of grate, do stand in the stead of one of the most effectual kinds of prayer/ be profitable to the taming of the flesh? and either cause it the less to rebel/ or else (which is yet happily better) strength the soul in such wise against the rebellion of the flesh, that by the valiant resisting thereof, it may have the more glorious triumph of the victory. And for experience (let Tyndale say what it please him) good folk find this in deed/ that when they be at the divine service in the church, the more devoutly that they see such godly ceremonies observed, & the more solemnity that they see therein/ the more devotion feel they themself therewith in their own souls, and their flesh the more tame and less rebellious, and far the better in temper/ so that all though they were at other times and places in right great rage, yet in the church at the voices of Crystes ministers in the quere/ with organies and all together, & beholding the solemn godly sacraments, and ceremonies in their sight, they feel their passions appeased/ as did king Saul in his ragyouse fury at the sown of david's harp.  
Now where he saith that of old time the officers appointed thereto, prayed in a to●g that all folk understood/ of which point Tyndale maketh much a do, and many times he speaketh thereof, because he would fain have his false translation brought in to the church to be there said and sungen a goddies half: I will not say nay but th●● in Grece and great part of Italy, they both said in the beginning the service of the church i● their own tongue. But so did they not neither in africa, nor in Almaigne, nor in Spain, no● in France, 〈◊〉 in England, nor as I trow in any place 〈◊〉 else, 〈◊〉 yet were they good men that brought 〈…〉 to all these contrees. And soon after also 〈…〉 changed both in Grece and Italy: the● 〈…〉 the service in the old language, weyche 〈…〉 people did not understand/ which would 〈…〉 so many good men so long suffered so, 〈…〉 had 〈◊〉 required of necessity. And saint Paul 〈…〉 to 〈◊〉 Corynthyes, whereof Tyndale so myc● 〈…〉 the commodity of the guise that then was 〈◊〉 the C●●●●●thyes, for the confirmation of his reason against 〈…〉 could but read and speak and yet would smatet in 〈…〉 willing the Corynthyes to labour first for better understanding, and not thereby meaning that of necessity the people must needs answer all together unto the blessing of the pressed or the bishop. which manner hath peradventure for some thing that in progress of time they found abused therein: been changed in to better/ as have been diverse other things and not without the secret working of god.  
And surely if all the service were in english: yet would it not thereby be much the more understanden/ which was all the matter that saint Paul spoke. For many that now do understand the latin tongue, do little yet understand the sentence, farther than the bare stories and collets.  
But like wise as in some words that remain still untranslated in to latin/ men use them with devotion, as amen and alleluia, that never know more of the signification then that they be holy words: so do there many a good man and good woman both say and here the service of god in the church with full great reverence, and full great devotion/ and therefore with great thank of god/ though they have it not in their own vulgar tongue/ which thing what it would do here god knoweth. But as for Almaigne there as it is so all ready/ we see well enough that it doth no great good there. For where as the people were fallen all ready to many fold heresies: they now turn all the sweet honey that they find in the service, quyne in to the poison that hath taken up their hearts before.  
And therefore where as Tyndale saith that there is nothing he●● in the church among us/ but howling, buzsing, and crying out, like hallowing of the fox or baiting of bears: it may well seem so to Tyndale and such as he is/ but unto good devout folk it seemeth far other wise.  
But in their church in Almaigne, there is another manner of howling and hallowing & crying out. For where as we with holy words and true faith haul and hallow out the false fox, and bait out the rugged bear the devil: you Tyndale in your churches of heretics, cry out as loud as we and louder to/ for ye cry out men and women and all. 〈◊〉 with your heresies haul out all saints & bait 〈…〉 holy sacraments and 〈…〉 out god & all.  
If 〈…〉 that is peradventure miss used in some places/ where happily the fashion is more ruffling and in less moderation & soberness, than were convenient for moving men to devotion: as evil as I like the man in such things as he saith nought, that is almost in all/ yet would I find no fault with him in that he said well. But now he saith not that some such things be miss ordered somewhere/ but that there is none other.  
As for song I see not why he should utterly dispraise in god's service/ which was a thing not only used in the old law but the new to, as well appeareth by saint Paul in his first epistle to the Corinthyes. As for haps and instruments of music/ the scripture showeth it openly both in the psalms and many other places of scripture/ bysyde dawnsing to, 
Psal. 150 1. Paralip. 13 2. Regum. 6  which is more than men use here now.  
But Tyndale can be pleased with no fashion neither cathedral church, nor parish church, nor chapel, nor monks, nor freres, nor nuns, neither Grenewych, Zion, nor charterhouse. If the quere be loud: then they cry out. If they sing any thing: yet they hallow and bait. If they do but say so●●e: yet they buzse/ so that I see well no fasshy● can please Ty●●●le but his own: for as he, neither crieth out, nor halloweth, nor bayteth, nor b●zseth in any seruy●e saying. For as th●y say that know him: he saith none at allꝭ neither matins, euyns●nge, nor mass/ nor cometh at no church but either to gaze or talk.  
But good christian people whom he belieth and saith that they ween no m●n may pr●y but at church: they pray both at c●yrch and at home/ but yet more gladly at ●●yrche. For th●u●● they 〈◊〉 well that in ●●oydynge of vain glory sword taught us to pray in our chamber: yet showed he 〈…〉 specially deputed to prayer. And it is none hyprocrysye to 〈◊〉 there 〈◊〉 it is to pray in the street. For when they pr●●e in the ●hyrche they do but as other folk.  
〈…〉 
Matth. 21  so in the plain literal sense rob out the relics and ornaments of the church to, pollute and myssespende them in profane uses to fill their belies and cover their pokky scabbed skins withal, 
Danielis .5  much worse than king Balthazare abused the hallowed vessels of the temple, to serve his own proud execrable gluttony.  
And when they have thus rob the churches: then lodge they formore dyspyghte their freres and their nuns in them/ and of an hallowed church they make a stinking stewys. And this is yet one signification more that Tyndales master hath made a church to signify scilicet a bordele for brothelys anglice a stews/ which signification also Tyndale hath here left out.    

The second chapter why Tyndale used congregation for chyrche●  
IN the second chapter Tyndale saith, that he changed this word church in to this word congregation in the new testament where he found this word ecclesia in latin/ because that the clergy had he saith brought the people in to the igno●●uns of the true signification of this 〈◊〉 church, making them understand thereby no thing but the clergy.  
〈…〉 is 〈◊〉 false what so ever Tyndale say. For all be it that men call the clergy by the name of the church, as the part ordained of god to be the more spiritual part thereof: yet is there no man I suppose so rude, but that he knoweth and so heareth the clergy preach also themself, that of the church of christ is every christian man/ and that the hole church is the hole christian people/ and therefore they 〈…〉 like c●●rche that is v●y●ersall/ by which 〈…〉 I 〈◊〉 so mad to mean ●●ely the 〈…〉 Tyndale against his own 〈◊〉 ●●porte 〈◊〉 s●lfe 〈◊〉 ●●ery other men's. I would 〈…〉 so much to other men's con 〈…〉 of 〈…〉 where 〈…〉 have not given themself the name. The word is english/ and they teach not every man his mother tongue, as men teach children their a b c. But the good people have of old time though they know themself also for part of the church: yet because the church signified an holy name of a christian company gathered together in god, have therefore of humility on their own part and reverence toward them, used to call the clergy by that name/ accounting them for the more godly part of that hole godly company.  
And the spirituality again ward do plainly declare, and ever have declared in their preaching/ that the name is general and common both to the temporalty and them/ and at large they declare the diverse parts of the church, and therein reckon themself but for one. And this name so used by the temporalty of their own humility and reverence to ward the spirituality: is not a thing new founden, but begun of old/ at such time as both the parties were I ween somewhat better, than I fear me they be both now.  
But now that thing the good folk have of good mind begun, and many hundred yeries continued/ Tyndale as one of another sort would have utterly changed/ and rather than lay men should have any such reverent mind to presties as to call them the church he would take it from them both/ and putting away from both that holy name of church, would call them both by the name of congregation, a word without any signification of christendom any more than of jews or Turks.  

Tyndale  
To this answereth Tyndale and saith, if this word congregation were a more general term than this word church: it hurteth not, for the circumstance doth ever declare what thing is meant thereby.   

More.  
If the setting of the circumstance make all well enough he needeth not much to care what word he changeth nor how. For he may set such circumstances of 〈…〉 device/ that he may make men perceive w●at h● meaneth. For so he may translate the world in to football if he join therewith certain 〈◊〉, and say this rownderolling foteball that 〈…〉 upon 〈…〉 sail upon, in the people whereof there is no 〈…〉 stability, and so forth a great long tale/ with 〈…〉 staunces he might as I say make any word understanden as it like himself, what so ever the word before signified of it self. But surely the word congregation with the circunstaunces in the text: would not have served when he translated it first to make the english reader to take it for the church/ no more than idolys for images, or images for idols as he translateth in likewise, or repenting for doing penance which he changeth to. But ma●y he hath added unto his translation such circumstances synnies, that the order of pre●thed is right nought/ but that every man, woman, and child is as very a pressed as a priest in deed/ & that every man & woman may consecrate the body of Criste and say mass as well as any pressed, and here confession & assoil as well as may a pressed/ and that there is no difference between other folk and priests, but all one congregation and company without any diffeerce save an appointment to preach/ and also that the comen known people of all christian realms, clergy, lay people, and all, be not the church nor be no part of the church, because they use sacraments and ceremonies and divine ser●yce in churches/ but that the church is a secret congregation of unknown chosen heretics, scattered abroad in corners, and studying to destroy the church.  
These circumstances in deed make men to perceive and understand, what Tyndale meaneth by this word congregation put in his translation in the stead of church. And they p●●cyue clearly by these cyrcum●●aunces, that he changed that word of purpose to set forth those he●esyes of his withal/ as boldly as he now saith ●ay. But all his gloze is therein that he will say he taketh than for none heresies. But on the other side all good faithful people do, and therefore they call the church the church still, and will not agree to chaynge the old church for his new congregation, but burn up his books that so calle● 〈◊〉 & who so would so begin to call it, would and well might begin to call 〈◊〉 hereteque, for his de●ytynge in the imitation of herety●●●●, and his evil appetite to sp●ke after an heretics 〈◊〉  
  

Tyndale.  
For whereso ever saith he that I may say a congregation/ there I may say a church also/ as the church of the deuy●l, the church of Satan, the church of wretches, the church of wicked men, the church of ly●rs, and a church of Turks thereto.   

More.  
This is lustily said of Tyndale add like a man. But it pleaseth him not to consider that I said that this word congregation is indyffere●● unto Turks and christian men and unto all other companies and a company of christian men, so that it as well signifieth a company of Turks as of christian men/ and that this word church doth signify a company of christian people, and is not indifferent to a company of Turks and of christian men. And I said and yet I say, that this is true of the usual signification of these words themself in the english tongue, by the comen custom of us english people, that either now do use these words in our language, or that have used before our days. And I say that this comen costume and usage of speech is the only thing, by which we know the right and proper signification of any word/ in so much that if a word were take● out of l●te● french, or spaynishe, & were for lack of understanding of the tongue from whence it came, used for another thing in english than it was in the formare tongue: then signifieth it in england none other thing than as we use it and understand thereby, what so ever it signify any where else. Then say I now that in England this word congregation did never signify the number of christian people as christian pe●●le, with a connotation or consideration of their faith o● christendom/ no more than this word assemble, which ●ath been taken out of the french, and now is by custom becomen english/ as congregation is out of the latin. A●d yet I deny ●ot but under those words both twain may be cristen men spoken of. For every asse●●blye and congregation in christian realms/ is comē●● made of christian pe●ple. But they be not there called congregation or assemble, because th●●●e crystened/ but 〈◊〉 be so called though they were jews or Saracens, though they 〈◊〉 so known and ●welled in cryst●nd●me. I say ●●w in likewise that this word church 〈◊〉 hath been used to 〈◊〉 other company then● crysten●d in comen speech 〈…〉 realm. And for this cause, and yet most 〈…〉 of Tyndals evil intent/ I said and yet say that he did nought in the change of church for congregation, an holy word for a profane as farforth as they both signify in our english tongue, in to which Tyndale made his translation.  
This was and is the thing that I said and say. Now in saying this/ I do not say untrue, though Tyndale be at his liberty to call a church what him list. For never ●ayed I the contrary, but the Tyndale where so ever he may say a congregation there he may say a church to. For though none english men be wont to speak so, nor in the common speech the word signifieth not so, nor of the church that he should in his translation have meant of, no good man will say so: yet may Tyndale say so, the church of Satan, the church of wretches, the church of wicked men; the church of liars, and a church of turks to/ and yet & he list he may set to it the church of heretics, and the church of devils to.  
But now though Tyndale may thus say for his pleasure which I deny not: yet can he not say that this is the proper signification of that word, which is the thing that a translator must regard. But it is a certain figure and manner of speaking, by which men use among to express a thing by his contra●y/ as a man might say this is the wisdom of a fool/ this is the troth of a false shrew/ this is the faith of an heretic. Thus may Tyndale abuse the holy name of church to any lewd thing that he list/ but this is not the part of a translator.  
But Tyndale now to convict me clearly by learning & reason double confirmed w●●h scripture: showeth himself in few words that he both lacketh learning and reason, & shamefully abuseth the scripture. These are his words.   

Tyndale.  
M. More must needs 〈…〉 have ecclesia translated thorough out all the new testament by thi● 〈◊〉 church) that church is as comen as ecclesia. Now is ecclesia a greek ●●rde, and was in use before the time of 〈…〉, and taken for a congregation among the heathen, where no 〈◊〉 〈…〉 or of christ. And also Luke himself useth ecclesia for 〈…〉 of heathen people● thrice in one chapter, even in 〈…〉 Demetrius the goldsmith o● syl●●rsmyth had gathered a 〈…〉.   

More.  
Let us now begin at the first piece & ye shall see what he hath/ M. More must needs grant that church is as comen as ecclesia, if he will have this word ecclesia thorough out all the new testament translated by this word church.  
first I say that master More must not needs grant this to Tyndale never a white. For if he turn it from a condycyonall proposition in to an affirmative antecedent and consequent: it shall soon be showed him that his consequent were possible to be false and his antecedent true. For it might be that this word ecclesia did signify m● things than the writers of the new testament had occasion to speak of within the same. And then though I would grant unto Tyndale that this word ecclesia should throughout the new testament be translated by this word church: yet must I not needs be driven to grant him for all that, that church were as comen as eccle●ia, because it should not yet signify those other significations of ecclesia that were not spoken of within the new testament. And thus where Tyndale would upon such an antecedent bind me by and by of necessity to his consequent: it appeareth that though I granted him the tone/ I must not needs for all his great word grant him the t'other at all.  
But now though I must not needs yet will I grant him of courtesy/ that if I will have ecclesia translated thorough out all the new testament by this word chyr●he● that then I must needs grant this term church to be as comen, and signify as large and as many thilges as this term ecclesia. But now when I that must not needs grant this to Tyndale: Tyndale may not choose but must needs grant me this again, that if I will not have ecclesia thorough out the new testament translated by this word c●●●che that then Tyndale in all his gay tale telleth us nothing to purpose. But that argument is now like as if he would have argued thus: If master More will graun●● me that every horse is a goose: then must he needs grant me that every mare must have a gander to get her 〈◊〉 ●ole. For I need not to grant him the thy●●● that he ●●pposeth.  
Now tell I Tyndale that in no wise I ●yll not have it so/ and that I never told him that 〈…〉 have so. ●u● I say plainly that if he sh●l●e throughout 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 stament translate this word ecclesia by this word 〈◊〉 I say that he should translate it very nought.  
And for because that Tyndale either evil perceiveth my words, or else evil remembered them/ or finally which is most likely, would willingly make the reader to take them wrong: I will desire the reader to look upon the place himself, which is the viii chapter of the third book/ and there shall he find that I find the fault, not in that he translateth this word ecclesia sometime in to this word congregation, but that he changeth this word church in to this word congregation, that is to say, that he translateth this word ecclesia in to this word congregation, in such places as he should have translated it in to this word church/ that is where so ever he hath put this word congregation for the company of christian people/ for that company is in english signified and of old hath been by this holy word church and never by this word congregation.  
This is the fault that I find, and tell Tyndale in that chapter good and plain causes wherefore, which Tyndale here letteth slip.  
But I would in no wise that as Tyndale taketh me/ ecclesia should alway be translated by this word church, for that were also wrong. For truth it is that ecclesia signifieth in the greek tongue a congregation, without respect of either good or bad christian or unchristen. For Tyndale saith therein truth, that the word ecclesia was used a thousand year before christendom began as the books prove. But it will be hard to prove & warrant that this word church was used for any congregation before cri●tendome began, or that ever it signified any cogregation other then christian. And therefore his reason grounded upon this word ecclesia is little worth/ sith it proceedeth not in likewise in this word church  
And yet tounching this word ecclesia/ as cunning as Tyndale would seem therein with his greek & all: he seemeth bu● poorly to perceive it. For ye shall understand that this word ecclesia in the greek tongue did not signify every man ●●●●●●upany or congregation, nor signified not all the cytesay●● of a●y city, with that respect that they were cyte●●●●●s of ●hat●yty, or that they were gathered for playing or 〈…〉 any such other ca●se: but only these congr●ga●●●● 〈◊〉 ●ere gathered to g●ther to comen upon 〈…〉 either about the comen 〈…〉 peace or wa●re or some other commodity, or for private folks business in such places as all the comen people were judges, as much was used in Grece and sometime in Rome to, and was as ye would say the assembly of the court or the comen counsel.  
Now for as much as christian people did resort together among themself to prayer and preaching, and making of good ordinances delivered them by the apostles: this name of ecclesia was applied unto the congregation of the christian company. And though it began of such assembles together: yet afterward it obtained also, both among the Greeks and Latins crystened, to signify the christian folk whither they were at church or at home, and to signify also the universal number of all christian people thorough out all the world/ where as it signified no such manner of thing among the paynims before, but only their several assembles such as I before describe you, and which was in latin called concio. And yet took the latin church the greek word ecclesia of the greek church that began before them/ and never used this word concio, which signified among the latin paynims, both the congregation or assembly, and the oration also that any man pronounced among them in the same assembly.  
Now may ye perceive that Tyndale with all his greek told you but a lame tale. For he telleth you not what manner of congregation ecclesia did signify in the greek/ but miss taketh it to signify every manner of congregation at adventure.  
And by this ye may also perceive how little it maketh for his purpose, that saint Luke whereof Tyndale so boasteth calleth ecclesia thrice in one chapter of the acts, the congregation that was gathered in Ephese against saint Paul. For that was such a congregation as I tell you, that ecclesia properly signified among the paynims/ saving that they gathered together upon a rumour and not after their customable calling.  
Now though the church was then newly begun to be called by the same name of ecclesia, and that after th'example of the other assembly, and the name not taken from the other assembly, nor they● assembly for such matters called by none other: how would Tyndale have had saint Luke tell the tale but by such words as then represented the matter? But that maketh nothing for his purpose, but 〈◊〉 against it. For sith that this word ecclesia, did there signify that congregation of the ephesians which were paynims/ and therefore in that place ought not to be translated by this word church, which signifieth only a christian congregation and not a congregation of paynims: so should ecclesia in like wise whereso ever it signifieth a christian congregation, be translated by this word church/ which is & ever hath been the word that sins christendom first began among english men hath always served therefore/ & not be translated by this word congregation, which word of congregation is a word of latin, and signifieth a sort gathered together in to one floke, as they speak, in gregem oui vin, gregem gruum, gregem anserum. And so when Tyndale hath all said and all done/ this word congregation, except some special places where they have by custom appointed it to signify some sort of men, as in some universities it signifieth their assembles: else where no such custom hath appropered it to any special manner of congregation/ the term congregation absolutely set, signifieth no more a company of christian men, than a fair flock of unchristen geese.  
But yet the change of the word, if Tyndale had done it either of chance or of purpose for his pleasure, and for none evil purpose: I would never have spoken word against it. But for as much as I perceive that he hath been with Luther, and was to at the same time when he so translated it/ and that I knew well the malicious heresies that Luther began to bring forth: therefore must I needs myssetruste him in the chaunge●  
And now I say that even of his own words spoken here/ ye may in his translations perceive his cankered mind. For he saith that Demetrius had gathered a company against Paul for preaching against images. Here may the christian reader well perceive the poison of this serpent. It is to no man unknown that all good christian people do both abhor the Idols of the false paynim gods, and honour also the images of christ and our lady and other holy saints. And as they call the tone sort images: so call they the other sort Idollys. Now where as saint Paul preached there against idols: cometh this good man and saith he preached against images.  
And as he speaketh here/ even so he translateth. For in the fift chapter of saint Paul to the Corynthyes, where saint Paul saith I have written to you that ye company not together, if any that is called a brother be a fornicator or covetous or a worshipper of idols: there translated Tyndale, or a worshipper of images/ because he would have it seem that the apostle had in that place foreboden christian men to worship any images/ and that who so worshipped any images, men should not company with him. Here ye may see the sincerity and plain meaning of the man's translation.  
Now seeth he well enough, that saint Paul spoke not of images but of idols/ and he perceived both that he so did, and also wherefore he so did, by his other words written in the tenth chapter of the same pistle/ where saint Paul speaking of the meat offered unto idols which he would the christian men should forbear, saith in this wise: what say I then that the idol is any thing, or that it which is offered to idols is any thing? Nay, but I say that those things which the paynims offer/ they offer to devils and not to god, and I would not that ye should have any felysshyppe with devils.  
This only text of saint Paul is enough to answer all the hole heap of heretics, that bark against holy images that good men honour for God's sake. For saint Paul here showeth that the cause why the worshipping of idols was unleeful among the gentiles or paynims/ was because that the worship that was done to those idols, was done to devils. And why, but for because that it was done to those idols for the love and honour that they bore to those devils, whom they called gods, and whom those idols represented.  
But so it is on the other side, that good folk which worship images of christ and his saints: do worship thereby christ and his saints whom those images represent. wherefore it followeth that like wise as the p●●●yms worshippers of idols did evil in the worshipping of them, because that in the worshipping of them they worshipped devils: right so do the christian men well in the worshipping of images, because th●t in the worshipping of images they worship christ and his holy saints. And now ye see good christian readers that this one place of say●● Paul so plainly reproveth all these heretics that 〈◊〉 against images/ that saving they be shameless, they should never look any man in the face for shame.  
But Tyndale to blind the reader with/ hath corrupted in his translation all this place of saint Paul also, and hath in every place put out idol and set in image/ to make the reader ween that saint Paul speak all this against images/ which he so speaketh against the paynims idols, that his reason which he maketh against them, doth openly commend and conform the christian worshipping of holy saints images. And here may ye see what a true translation Tyndales is, and for what purpose he translateth it false/ and god provideth that the scripture which he falsyfyeth, openly fighteth against him.  
This pageant hath he played also shamefully falsyfyenge saint Paul in the second chapter to the romans/ where saint Paul saith to the Jews: Thou abhorrest idols and robbest god of his honour/ meaning that though they aborted the paynim idols, & would not worship their false gods that were devils: yet for all that, they by the breaking of god's law with their evil living, they took away the honour fro god, i● causing him and his law to be dyshonorably spoken of among the paynims.  
Now cometh me Tyndale, and in dyspyght of holy images he hath translated that place in this wise: Thou abhorrest images and takest from god his honour. Here ye see Tyndales truth lo. Did saint Paul say so? did saint Paul mean so? did the jews abhor images? they aborted idols but not images. They abhorred not in the arch the images of the angeles● though the aborted abroad the idols of devils. But Tyndales translation of this place may marvelously well be said un himself: Thou abhorrest images Tyndale and takest the honour fro god/ for thou wouldest have us set Crystes image at nought, which without god's dishonour we can not do.  
what shift shall Tyndale find now? will he say that idols and images be all one, because that idols be a kind of images, and image is a term indifferent to good and bad. For a man may say and image of the devil as well as an image of god.  
Tyndale shall I think find no reader so slenderly witted to su●●er him scape so. For though idols be of the kind of images/ yet sith they be such a special kind, as always to christian men's ears do signify evil images & devilish: he may not in translation change the name into the general, whereby it may not be perceived of which kind he speaketh. For this were very nought if he did it in favour of the worse kind, to make men ween it were better. And now when he doth it in hatred of the better kind to make men ween it worse/ the is to wit in despite of the images of god incarnate, & of his holy saints, to make them seem idols: he doth an hundred times worse. For he were not so wretched by an hundred fold as wretched as he were/ the needs would in his fond fashion love god & the devil together as he the would love neither nother.  
And if the Tyndale would stiffly stick in this point & abide there by/ that his translation of idol in to image is good enough because idols be images: them sith the devils be angels as in deed they be by nature, & evil angels be angels still/ Tyndale may at his pleasure translate the devil in to angel without any other addition where so ever he find him thorough out all the bible. And then shall he do theris as did a like learned pste/ the thorough out all the gospels scraped out diabolus & wrote jesus Cristus, because he thought the devils name was not meet to stand in so good a place. And thus I think that every child may now perceive/ with how little learning & less wit, & lest truth, Tyndale hath translated this word ecclesia in to congregation in stead of church/ & that he hath so substantially defended it, that in the maintenance of one false folly, he is now founden in twain. For by a like manner as he falsely translated ecclesia in to the unknown name of congregation, in such places as he should have translated it in to the holy known name of church, & that he this hath done of a grievous purpose to set forth his heresy of the secret unknown church, wherein is neither good works nor sacraments: so is it now proved that in the same wise & of like malice, hath he translated idols in to images, under the colour of the likeness of false gods & devils, to make the scripture seem to reprove the godly images of our saviour himself & his holy saints. And now using himself in his translation in such malicious & erroneous fashion: he complaineth that good men have burned his evil translated books, and will not suffer his heresies to go forward.  
In the end of this chapter Tyndale telleth me, that I have been so long used in my figures of poetry/ that when I err most, I do now as he supposeth by reason of a long custom, believe myself that I say most true/ or else as wise people when they dance naked in a net, believe that no man see them: even so he saith that I think mine errors so subtly couched, that no man can spy them. As for mine errors how subtly they be couched I can not tell/ nor what other men 〈◊〉 spy I can not say. But surely if I could spy any i my writing myself: I would not fail both to confess it to god & the world & forsake it. Now if I be by custom of poetry so blinded, that I can not see mine errors but ween that niy lies were true: yet if I find any that can show them me, I shall soon amend the fault. But I have one good lykelyhed that I do not err or lie after such fashion as Tyndale telleth me/ in that if it so were, Tyndale than that pryeth there upon so narrowly, and with such eagles eyen as he hath, were very likely to spy it/ namely sith I go so bare dawnsing naked in a net. And I am sure if he spied any such thing in me/ he would of his charity be so god to me as to tell me. But surely he hath spied none yet. For all that he hath hitherto pored out and called mine errors be but his own, & turn upon his own top everichone. And as for my poetry verily I can little else, & yet not that neither. But it had been good for Tyndales soul and a thousand souls beside/ that he had meddled but with poetry in stead of holy scripture all the days of his life. For of poetry though there should have comen little good/ yet could there never have comen such an heap of harm to christian people, as he hath of his blind malice brought in to this realm by his untrue translating, and more untrue construing of the holy scripture of god/ most maliciously making the blessed word of god, to serve him for an instrument to drive men to the devil.  
And yet if poetry be as Tyndale calleth it, nothing but feigning and dying: then is he cunning enough and can I assure you make as much poetry upon any part of scripture, as any poet can in england upon any part of Virgil. And he useth in his writing much plain poetry, wherewith he danceth na●ed not all in a net/ but for the more part so stark naked without any net at all, that there is not the breadth of a silken thread to cover his poetry/ of which points of his plain open poetry I have showed you some all ready, and shall anon show you many more.  
Then he asketh me why I have not contended with Erasmus whom he calleth my darling, of all this long while for translating of this word ecclesia in to this word congregatio. And then he cometh forth with his feet proper taunt, that I ●auour him of likelihood for making of his books of Maris in my house. There had he it melo save for lack of a little salt. I have not contended with Erasmus my darling, because I found no such malicious intent with Erasmus my darling, as I find with Tyndale. For had I found with Erasmus my darling the shrewd intent and purpose that I find in Tindale: Erasmus my darling should be no more my darling. But I find in Erasmus my darling that he detesteth and abhorreth the errors and heresies that Tyndale plainly teacheth and abideth by/ and therefore Erasmus my darling shall be my dear darling still. And surely if Tyndale had either never taught them, or yet had the grace to revoke them: then should Tyndale be my dear darling to. But while he holdeth such heresies still/ I can not take for my darling him that the devil taketh for his darling.  
Now for his translation of ecclesia by congregatio/ his deed is nothing like Tyndals. For the latin tongue had no latin word before used for the church, but the greek word ecclesia/ therefore Erasmus in his new translation gave it a latin word. But we had in english a proper english word therefore/ and therefore was no such cause for Tyndale to change it in to a worse. Erasmus also meant none heresy therein as appeareth by his writing against heretics/ but Tyndale intended no thing else thereby as appeareth by the heresies that himself tea●heth and abideth by. And therefore was there in this matter no cause for me to contend with Erasmus, as there was to contend with Tyndale with whom I contend for putting in congregation in stead of church/ except the Tyndale peradventure meaneth that I should have been angry with Erasmus because that in stead of congregation in his latin translation, he had not put in our english word church.  
As touching Moria in which Erasmus under the name and person of Moria, which word in greek signifieth folly/ doth merely to wche and reprove such fawtes and folks as he found in any kind of people/ perusing every state and condition spiritual and temporal, leaving all most none unto wched/ by which book Tyndale saith that if it were in english, every man should then w●ll see that I was then far otherwise minded than I now write: y● this be true, than the more cause have I to thank god of amendment. But surely this is unclew. For god be thanked I never had that mind in my life to have holy saints images or their holy relics out of reverence. Nor if there were any such thing in Moria: that thing could not 〈◊〉 make any man see, that I were myself of that mind/ the book being made by another man though he were my darling never so dear. ●ow be it that book of Moria doth in deed but jest upon the abuses of such things, after the manner of the dysours' part in a play, & yet not so far neither by a great deal, as the messenger doth in my dyalog/ which I have yet suffered to stand still in my dialogue, & that rather yet by the counsel of other men then of myself.  
For all be it that it be lawful to any man to mysselyke the mysseuse of every good thing/ and that in my dialogue there not only those evil things rehearsed but answered also and soiled/ and the goodness of the thing self well used is plainly confirmed and proved: yet hath Tyndale by erroneous books in setting forth Luther's pestilent heresies, so enuenemed the hearts of lewdly disposed persons/ that men can not almost now speak of such things in so much as a play, but that such evil hearers wax a great deal the worse.  
And therefore in these days in which Tyndale hath (god amend him) with thinfection of his contagyouse heresies, so sore poisoned malicious and newfangle folk/ that the kings highness and not without the counsel and advice not of his nobles only, with his other counsellors attending upon his graces person/ but also of the right virtuous and special well learned men of either university & other parties of the realm specially called thereto, hath after diligent and long consideration had therein, been fain for the while to prohibit the scripture of god to be suffered in english tongue among the people's hands/ lest evil folk by false drawing of every good thing they read in to the colour and mayntenauns of their own fond fantasies, and turning all honey in to posyn, might both deadly do hurt unto themself, and spread also that infection farther a broad: I say therefore in these days in which men by their own default mysseconstre and take harm of the very scripture of god, until men better amend, if any man would now translate Moria in to english, or some works either that I have myself written ere this, ●ll ●e it there be none harm therein/ folk yet being (as they be) given to take harm of that that is good/ I would not on●●y my darlings books but mine own also, help to burn th●● both with mine own hands, rather than folkesh 〈◊〉 (though thorough their own fault) take any harm of them, saying that ●se●he● likely in these days so to do.  
But now after this Tyndale handleth me full uncourtesly/ for he taketh away all my thank and reward that I should have had of the spirituality. For he showeth them that I wrote not my book for any affection that I bear to them/ no more than judas bytrayed christ for any favour that he bore to the high priests, scribes, and pharaseys: but that I did the tone as he did the t'other, for the lucre that should come thereof/ after which he saith that I so sore hunger, that the good man as my friend prayeth for me that I eat not to fast for choking.  
Now if the spyritualty had been about to have gathered a dime among them and give it me: Tyndale here had lost it me every penny. But god forgive the good man and I do. For when he speaketh of my lucre/ in good faith he maketh me laugh/ and so I ween he maketh many more to, that know well god be thanked that I have not so much lucre thereby, that I stand in so great apparel of choking with lucre, as Tyndale standeth in danger of choking (god save the man) with the bones of buttered bear.  
Now where Tyndale saith I have faintly defended the things whereof I write: the things be strong enough and little need me to defend them/ and also my purpose was not so much to do that that needed not, that is to wit to defend them/ as to prove and make the people perceive that Tyndale went about to bring in heresies among them. And that needeth now as little/ for Tyndale hath proved it himself.  
And so little defence sufficeth for any reason that Tyndale layeth against it. And finally if I were faint therein as Tyndale saith: yet is a faint faith better than a strong heresy.  
But Tyndale yet for all this as a good godly father of his haboundaunte charity, saith that he charitably doth exhort me in christ by the examples of judas and Balaam to take heed/ and ferther he counseleth me and my fellows full holily to awake by times ere ever our sins be ripe, lest the voice of our wickedness ascend up and awake god out of his sleep to look upon us and to bow his ears unto our cursed blasphemies against the open truth/ and to send his harvest men and mowars of vengeance to reap it, except we repent and resist not the spirit of god, which openeth light unto the world.  
These words when I red them, seemed me so pytthy & so persant, set and couched in such an high spiritual fashion/ that they made me much to marvel what Tyndale had spied in me, and caused me to search myself, to see whither I had used any such high blasphemies, that the wykkednes thereof were likely to ascend up in to heaven & awake god almighty out of his sleep. But when I had over searched all my book & ransacked up the very bottom of my breast/ though I found in the tone some pretty peccaduliuns, such as I will not now confess to father Tyndale because he saith confessors keep no counsel: yet could I find in good faith neither in my breast nor in my book I thank god any such high blasphemies as Tyndale so highly crieth out upon, except he call it an high blasphemy to call heresies heresies/ which I take as help me god in my poor conscience for none higher blasphemy, then to call a goose a goose. Nor 1 find no truth that I neither blaspheme or once speak against, except Tyndale mean by this open truth all the false open heresies that himself teacheth against Crystes holy sacraments. Against which kind of false truth I no more fere to speak/ than against the devil himself that first found it out. Nor I can not find wherein I resist the spirit of god in opening his light unto the world/ except that Tyndale take for the spirit of god, the spirit of the devil of hell/ and for opening of light unto the world, he take the lyghtesome lantern of good ensample/ by which the world may see for a show of holy matrimony, frere Luther and Cate calate his nun lie lusking together in lechery. Now to resist this devilish spirit my poor spirit, for all Tyndales high fearful charge is so little afraid/ that I call heartily to the spirit of god to quench the fowl fyrebronde of that helly light, & that so thoroughly that the world see never any such example more.  
And now when that I had thus thoroughly searched well my breast and my book, and saw my conscience clear, far out of any such cause of jeopardy: then Tyndals terrible exorcysme made me not much to tremble/ sith heretics have of old be wont alway to use such words. But my mind more gave me to laugh at his high solemn charge/ whereby he 〈◊〉 with his strange words enchant and charm 〈…〉, and 〈…〉 ween he were walking down to hell quykke, if he made so much as a mum against Luther's lechery.  
Now where as judas and Balaam were not meet samples for me, that bear myself neither for an apostle nor for a prophet: I might here lay them both well for plain samples to him that beareth himself for a right apostle that were sent to preach a new faith to this realm, and a new evangelist to, that maketh with his false translation new scripture of his own/ & very properly playeth he the part of Balaam to, in that he laboureth to bring maledictions upon Jerusalem, that is the catholic church of christ. And here might I bring him other samples in also very meet for the matter of men much like himself, heretics I mean of old time & some of later days not long afore Luther. And when I had rehearsed up a Ragmans' roll of a ●able of heretics, and showed a shrewd sort that came to sorrow for their sin: then might I lo if I had Tyndals' spirit, spit out scripture apace & exhort Tyndale again holily, to take heed & beware by time lest like heresies & like malice bring him to like mischief. But as for me I can no such fashion/ and therefore letting all such high process pass, of ripe synnies, and ascending to heaven and waking god out of sleep, and set him on husbandry, and drive him to harvest with mowers of vengeance and repers of ripe synnies, leaving Tyndale in his vengeable parables: I can no more I, but pray god amend him and make him a good man.    

Against Tyndales using this word signior and elder, and not pressed.  

Tyndale.  
ANother thing which he re●●●eth is, that I interpret this greek word presbyteros by this word se●io●●. Of a truth senior is no very good english, though senior and junior be used in the universities: but there came no better in my mind at that tyme. How be it I spied my fault s●●s, long year M. More told it me, and have mended it in all the works which I seus made, and call it an elder.   

More.  
Tyndale in this chapter at great length declareth f●r his excuse, four fair virtues in himself/ malice, ignor●●●● error, and folly. For in his long babbling he hath never a clause but it falleth in one of these four, and some one in all four as ye shall see ferther in his words following.  
Here in the beginning lest he should seem to have learned the knowledge of his ignorance by my monition: he saith that he perceived his fault himself before & amended it to. For where as for lack of finding a better english word he saith that he had translated this word presbiteroes in to this word senyours in english: he hath now amended it and made it elders.  
Here hath he done a great act, now that he hath at last found out elder. He hath of likelihood riden many mile to find out that. For that word elder is ye wot well so strange and so little known, that it is more than marvel how that ever he could find it out. And one thing I promise you if it were not worse than signior/ he had not found it yet. For this is a like amending, as if he would where a man were blind of the tone eye/ amend his sight by putting out the t'other.  
This word presbyter in the greek, as it signifieth that thing that men call a pressed in english/ was called sometime signior in latin. But this thing that english men call a pressed, and that the greek church called presbyter, and the latin church also and sometime signior: was never called elder neither in the greek church, nor the latin, nor the english neither. Now this being thus/ judge good readers yourself whither of two bad, it was not better when he called a pressed a signior, by which word it was called sometime at the lest wise in some language/ then when he calleth a priest an elder, by which word it was never called nor known neither in one language nor other. And so ye may see how wisely by long leisure and warning to, Tyndale hath amended his matter.   

Tyndale.  
And in that he maketh heresy of it, to call presbiteroes an elder: he condemneth their own old latin text of heresy also, which they use yet daily in the church and have used I suppose this xiiij hundred years. For that text d●●th call it an elder like wise.   

More.  
See the sincerity and plainness of the good man. It is no mastery for him to make proper solutions, if himself may make the objections, such as no man objecteth nor would object against him but himself. For here he saith that I make it heresy to call presbyteros an elder, which thing I never said nor thought. But I said & say and truth I say, that Tyndale did in his english translation change the word of pressed in to signior of an heretical mind and intent to set forth his heresy/ whereby he teacheth that presthe● is no sacrament.  
For as for this word elder, how could I then charge him with it as an heresy/ when he had not then translated elder but senior, till now that he hath by longer leisure amended it and made it worse. So that ye may first here see a piece of his plain poetry double proved and double reproved/ by which he layeth unto me the thing that I never said nor had at that time either cause to say or occasion to think upon.  
Nor now I say not that it is heresy, if he have as he saith translated sins that time presbyteros by this word elder: but I say he doth it with the mind of an heretic to set forth his heresy. For else I would not call it heresy, if one would translate presbyteros a blok: but I would say he were a blok head. And as very a blokhed were he, that would translate presbyteros an elder in stead of a pressed, for that this english word elder signifieth no more a pressed, than this greek word presbyteros signifieth an elder stykke.  
And yet this thing being so properly spoken as ye see: he saith that the old translation in latin red in the church this xiiii hundred year, calleth presbyteros an elder in like wise. which word of Tyndale I would call a lie/ saving that it is more than a lie by a syllable.   

Tyndale.  
In the .v. chapter of the first of Peter, thus standeth it in the latin text: Seniores qui in vobis sunt, obsecro ego consenior, pasc●te qui in vobis est gre●● Cristi. The elders that are among you/ I beseech which a●●●● elder also, that ye feed the flock of Criste which is among you. There is presbyteros called an elder.   

More.  
Heard ye reder ever such another? Is presbyteros here called an elder in the old latin translacyon? I find there this word seniores, where the greek church used in their language presbyteros. But as for this word elde● which Tindale saith is the old latin translation: he were like to poor out his eyen vpp●● latin book ere he find the english word elder th●●●, 〈…〉 he cause it to be written in himself. And yet he layeth like texts iii or four/ some in the pistles of saint Iohn, & some in the Acts, where he findeth in stead of presbyteros this word seniores and natu maiores/ and alway he setteth thereto, lo here is presbyteros called an elder and an elder in birth, as though this latin word seniores or natu maiores were this english word elder/ where he saith that presbyteros is called elder in the old translation/ which as ye see must needs be false: but if this english word be in that latin book, and that he make english latin and latin english.  
But now lest he call the redargution of his folly sophistication/ let us divine for him what he might mean. He will happily say, that he meaneth that this greek word pr●s●yteros is in the text that he hath alleged called by the old translator seniores, and seniores signifieth elder or elders. And so though this word elder be not in the latin translation, yet sith that latin word is there that signifieth in latin the same thing that this word elder signifieth in english: we can not blame him for translating presbyteros in to this word elder/ but if we blame in like wise the translator, for translating presbyteros in to this word seniores.  
first if I said that the old translation were in that point not so well as it might have been/ I should not say so alone. And Erasmus whom Tyndale calleth my darling, and whom himself doth for all that in his own translation prefer before the old/ doth as well in the said pistle of saint Peter, as in the said twenty chapter of th'apostles Acts, not only keep still the greek word presbyteros, but showeth also that the old translator translated it not well, because he translated there this word presbyteros into this word s●niores, and in the other place into maiores natu/ but saith that he should rather have kept still the word presbyteros unchanged, because that word is it that signifieth authority with the greeks/ where seniore● in latin signifieth but their age, and all were not old as appeared by Timothe. And for that cause in the said place of saint Peter his pistle/ saint Hierome amendeth that old translation and keepeth presbyteros still, reciting saint Peter in this wise: Presbyteros qui sunt ●n vobis obsecro ego compresbyter. wherein saint Hierome was rather cont●●● to join the latin conjunction with the greek word, and ●all y● compresbyter/ then to change that word signifying the 〈◊〉 in to seni●res and consen●or, sygnifyeng but the age. For among the latins signior signified none other/ but among the greeks presbyteri was the name that many times signified rulers and governors.  
Now if we list we may yet excuse the old translator/ which how soon after Crystes death he translated it who can tell? And then when the latin church had no latin word for the christian priests all ready received & used/ what blame was he worthy that took that word not continually but among, which of all the latin words seemed to him to go next the signification of presbyteros at that tyme. And that was as him thought seniores, in which word yet the church never followed him though/ but though they red his translation openly in divine service, yet neither in their writing nor preaching would they take up that word and call a priest senior/ as appeareth by the books and sermons of all holy doctors sins.  
And therefore Tyndale is without excuse, which hath translated presbyteros by this english word elders/ a word unknown among english men to signify priests/ and among whom this word pressed was the proper englesh word well known, and had served in that signification so many hundred year afore Tyndale was borne.  
Also go me to the place which Tyndale allegeth in the first pistle of saint Petre: Seniores qui sunt in vobis obsecro ego consenior pascite qui in vobis est grezem Christi. which place I take for ensample. For where he layeth two places of the pistles of saint Iohn, and one in the twenty of the Acts/ all be for one purpose, and this one place answered, answereth them all: I say therefore that Tyndale hath even here in this his new book translated that same place wrong, and all the remanant in like wise. And that will I prove partly by Tyndales own words, which in this book follow the translation of those words.  
The elders that are among you, I beech which am an elder also, that ye ●ede the flock of christ which is among you. There is presbyteros calle● an elder And in that he saith feed Cristes' flock/ he meaneth even the ministers that were chosen to teach the people and to inform them in godd●● word and ●● say persons.   

More.  
Lo Tyndale here showed himself that by this word se●niores, be there understanden the ministers that were ch●●● to teach people. Then say I that if this word seniores 〈◊〉 in that signification there/ Tyndale should not translate it in to this english word elder, which signifieth not the office but the age here. And this is I say true/ all were it so that Tyndales false heresy were true, that holy orders were no sacrament at all/ but a bore office. For if it were, but in a profane comen story, in which men may boldly be in the translation at much more liberty then in holy scripture. yet were he a naughty translator that would translate a thing in to such a word, as in the tongue in to which he translateth, is not understanden in that signification.  
As if percase a man would translate a latin chronicle in to english, in which were mention made of some thing done in London/ if he found in that chronicle the aldermen called by the name of senatores, or peradventure seniores: he should yet in his english translation call them not senators nor elders neither, sith neither of those two words is in english the name by which the aldermen of London be known/ but he must therefore translate senatores and seniores also in to aldermen in his english translation. And ferther if he there found this word senatus Londinensis: he should not transite yt in to this word senate/ but either into mayre and aldern●en, or percase (if the circumstance of the matter so lead him to it) in to mayre, aldermen, and comen counsel.  
And therefore as ye plainly see/ Tyndales defence of his translating presbyteros in to elders is as feeble to stick to, as is an old rotten elder stick, & though it were but in a profane story.  
Now where it is in the holy story of Crystes gospel: what manner a thing is it to translate elder in stead of priest, which word elder in engleshe was never so taken nor understanden/ and thus to do without necessity, having this word pressed so commonly known and so long.  
〈◊〉 d●th he not by the same re●●on change bishop in to overseer, & de●k●● in to serveth both which he might ●●●all do as pressed in to elder. And then must he with his tr●̄●l●●yon make us an english vocabulary of his own devise 〈◊〉. And so with such provision he may change chin into 〈…〉 b●l●e in to bakke, & every word into other 〈…〉, if all England list now to go to 〈…〉, and else not.  
Now if h● 〈…〉 that with such changes he could change the names in to the better and show us what the names signify/ first if he said therein true, he may tell us those significations in a tale bysyde/ but he must in english let english words stand in his english translation for all that. And yet were out of his mouth a right good tale evil worth the hearing/ for with a little honey he mengleth so much poison: that rather than to swallow the tone down with the t'other/ a man were yet much better to forbear them both. yet setteth me Tyndale one mighty strong bulwark to fence in all his field, out of which he shooteth a sore shot of serpentyns/ when he asketh me why the apostles used not this greek word hiereus, or the interpreter this latin word sacerdos, but alway these words presbyteros and senior/ by which was at that time nothing signified other than an elder.  
This shot shall I not now much need to fere. For likewise as from the shot of a gone a man were meetly safe, that had ere the gone were loosed, made a step aside xu hundred mile from it: so sith I am stepped now fifteen hundred year from the apostles days, and almost as many from the interpreters time, of whose intents and purposes Tyndale asketh me now the why/ I may say that I never talked so much with them by mo●th, as to ask them the why/ and therefore sith they have not written me the why, I am not bound to tell Tyndale the why.  
But I ask of Tyndale no such far fet why's, but a why of his own deed. And that sith we now have, and hundreds of years have had english names enough for such orders of offices as he translated out of latin: I ask him this why/ why did he translate the same by this english word elder, which nothing signifieth the same. And sith that in the tex●ys that himself allegeth, ●●yth●● the greek word presby●er● nor the latin word seniores sygny●yeth in those places by Tyndales own confession the age ●ut the office: why giveth he than that english wo●●e● elder in their stead, which signifieth not the offy●● 〈◊〉 age. For though Tyndale say ●hat 〈…〉 was at that time nothing 〈…〉, wherein as to ●●●chynge 〈…〉 sith himself saith n●● 〈…〉 (and in that 〈◊〉 it happ●th him to say 〈…〉 deed that b●the pres●yt●ros & 〈◊〉 be in those places 〈…〉 ●y● the 〈◊〉 ● no● the age (forels had young 〈◊〉 ●ppon the calling together of presbyteros or seniores, been left uncalled and had leave to bide at home) what so ever moved in the first giving of the name the apostles or the interpreter to call the office by the name of presbyteros in greek, or seniores in latin/ it was Tyndales part yet in his english translation to give it that english name, by which the office (were it holy or profane) was and long had been commonly known in england.  
And ferther if no special name would have contented him: yet should he then have called presbyteros the rulers, governors, or officers, or some such other english word which signifieth office, rather than to call it elders/ by which name there is in the english tongue none office understanden at all but only the bare age.  
And thus as touching change of presbyteros in to seniores, and his amendment in to elders, that is to wit from evil to worse: ye see how well he hath quit him.  
How be it if he had had in the change none other fault but folly/ it should have been long ere I would have gone about to find it. But now standeth all the matter in this which he slippeth over/ that he did it of very cankered malice, by which he setteth forth against christ and his church his deadly malicious heresy/ wherewith he would make men ween that holy orders were no sacrament. And for that cause he asketh why that the apostles did not call the priests hiereus in greek but presbyteros, which signified he saith nothing but only elders. And by this reason would Tyndale have it seem, that the apostles did take the christian priests for no more consecrate persons than other christian men, because they used a word that had none holy signification.  
But Tyndale here though he wink fast/ is not yet so fast a sleep as he maketh for. For if he listed to lift up his head and look up a little ●he should soon see that his argument were assoiled with the other word, which he hath also ●ysse translated of like malice ecclesia.  
For if he will needs argue that priests be no persons consecrated, nor their order no sacrament, because the apostles called them presbyteri/ which name had at that time none h●●y signification in the greek tongue where they took it: 〈◊〉 Tyndale well enough (saving that he winketh and wy●●●●●●) that it must needs follow, that baptism were no sacrament neither, because the apostles and evangelists called it baptisma, and in holy scripture also named the holy company of baptized people by this greek word ecclesia/ of which two words baptisma and ecclesia neither nother had in the greek tongue before, any holy signification at all, nor signified there any other thing than the tone a washing/ the t'other a congregation or assemble of heathen paynim people. And thus is in this point Tyndales plain folly and dissimuled falsed, well and plainly convicted.  
And now sith that the apostles and evangelists did apply and approper that profane word ecclesia, to signify the holy company of christian people sacred and sanctified in the holy sacrament of baptism/ and in likewise the profane word presbyteros to signify a certain sort of the same company, specially consecrate unto god by the holy sacrament of order: he that now translateth those words in those places in to the english tongue by any other words than such as in the english tongue do signify those holy consecrate companies, the tone segregate from paynims by the sacrament of baptism, the t'other segregate fro the lay people by the sacrament of order/ as Tyndale hath done both in the holy name of church and priests, calling the tone but congregation, the other first but senior & now that worse is but elder/ if he know it for no fault, then is it great ignorance/ if he forget to mark it, then is it great negligence/ if he perceive it and dissimule it, then is it great falsehood/ if he do it as Tyndale doth, to make presthed seem none holy sacrament, then is it a very malicious pestilent heresy/ like as if he would in like manner and of like intent translate baptisma in to washing, to make men ween it were no neither manner washing when the pressed crysteneth a child, then when a woman was●heth a ●●●ke of clothes.  
He planteth in a great process to small purpose/ because I said that Tymothe was not old. And then Tyndale saith that saint Paul chose him because he found in him more wisdom, sadness, and virtue, then in the aged t●en of that place. And Tyndale doth well to tell us so for ●llys would all the world have went that saint Paul h●● made a young man bishop, bycau●●●●e would have had him wild.  
But the goth he forth and 〈◊〉 ●s a solemn process, that god and necessity is law●●●●e/ and all this he bryngwyn in to prove that not only young men but women also 〈◊〉 for necessity minister all the sacraments/ and that 〈…〉 may christian for necessity, so they may for necessity preach, and for necessity consecrate also the blessed body of christ. And for to make this matter likely: he is fain to imagine an unlikely case/ that a woman were driven alone in to an Island where christ was never preached, as though things that we call chance and hap, happened to come so to pass without any providence of god. Tyndale may make himself sure, that sith there falleth not a sparrow upon the ground without our father that is in heaven: 
Mat. 10  there shall no woman fall a land in any so far an Island, where he will have his name preached and his sacraments ministered/ but that god can and will well enough provide a man or twain to come to land with her, whereof we have had all ready meetly good experience and that with in few years. For I am sure there have been more Islands and more part of the firm land and continent, discovered and founden out within this forty years last passed/ then was new founden, as far as any man may perceive this three thousand year afore/ and in many of these places the name of christ now new known to and preachings had, and sacraments ministered, without any woman fallen a land alone. But god hath provided that his name is preached by such good christian folk as Tyndale now moste raileth upon/ that is good religious freres & specially the freres observants, honest, godly, chast●, vertuose people/ not by such as frere Luther is that is run out of religion, nor by casting a land alone any such holy nun as his harlot is.  
when Tyndale hath proved by this unprobable case, that women may consecrate the body of christ: them he lamenteth the miserable servitude of the simple souls the poor silly women's by cause men will not suffer them to say mass, and byeth out upon us: o poor women.  
How despise ye them. The vizor the better welcome to you. Better is to you ●●●●o●d then a good woman.  
O the tender heart of py●uouse Tyndale. He beginneth now by likelihood to look toward wedding he speaketh like a ●●e●. But he will I warrant you no vile person. But because he is a priest and hath promised perpetually to live chaste/ h●●yll none whore therefore, but rather will do as Luther 〈◊〉 done, wed a ●onne and make here an whore  
Then exhorteth he full holily, and in manner con●ureth also the re●●●●● 〈◊〉 lord god, that he shall read over the two pistles of saint Poule written to Timothe, whereof him self also rehearseth part/ which who so ever read, shall see therein both the false malice of the man, and yet the working of god therewith. For god hath caused Tyn●al● to put in such things as dyrectyly reprove his own conditions/ and the devil hath made him falsely to l●ue out those words which if he had set in/ must needs have openly declared that all is heresy that ever he goeth about.  
For saint Paul there teacheth Timothe to beware and avoid the company of men of corrupt minds, which waste their brains about wrangeling questions. And Tyndale is in company of none other/ but such as Luther is and frere Huskyn and their fellows, that had wasted out their wits so long about wrangeling heresies, that now they are fallen at last to run out of religion, and waste out their brains about wrangeling wives.  
Saint Poule also teacheth Tymothe, that he should not sharply rebuke any man that were elder than him sel●e, but exhort him as his father, though himself was bys●hope and as Tyndale saith an apostle to. Now Tyndale being neither nother, nor having any office so much as among heretics: letteth neither sharply to rebuke his elders in age, nor also to jest and rail upon all states spiritual and temporal thorough out all christendom, and namely against all religious men, but if they will run out and wed. And thus ye may see with what fruit Tyndale readeth saint Paul.  
Now would I that Tyndale had put in this place these words that he leaveth out: Noli ●●gligere gratiam quae in te● est, quae data est tibi per pr●y●etiam, cum impositione manuum presbyteri. Neglect not the grace that is in thee, 
1. Timoth. 4  which was given the by prophecy, with the putting upon the hands of a priest. And afterwards in the ii pistle: 
2. Timoth. 1.  Admoneo te ut resuscites gratiam ●e●, qu●e est in te per impositionem manuum mearum. I warn the that thou stir up the grace of god, that is in the by the putty●●e of mine hands upon the.  
These words of saint Paul to Timothe i● those pistles which Tyndale exhorteth every man to read, and whereof himself rehers●th also partest do manyfes●ely reprove ●●ndales heresy, and clearly prove the holy order of priesthood a sacrament.  
For these places show both the sensible sign of 〈◊〉 the apostles hands upon Timothe in the making of him pressed/ and also that god gave his grace therewith. And the first text showeth also after the greek (in which it is with the putting upon the hands not of a pressed as the latin is but of priesthood) the power and authority that Timothe had in giving the same grace forth unto other● whom he should after make priests.  
And these texts do so plainly reprove him/ that he is fain to make a shameful shameless shift to void them, such as all the world may wonder at. For he saith in his book of obedience, that the putting on of saint Paul's hands upon Timothe was no sacramental sign/ nor any other thing but a custom of putting a man's hand upon another/ as men do here upon a boy's head when they call him good son/ or as saint Paul used to stretch out his arm to the people when he preached.  
what availeth it to lay manifest holy scripture to Tyndale, that forceth so little so manifestly to mock it. Tyndale crieth out that every man mysseconstrueth the scripture/ and than himself ye see what construction he maketh. Saint Paul saith plainly that Timothe received grace by the putting of his hands upon him. And Tyndale letteth not to tell him as plainly nay/ and that he did but stroke Timothees head and call him good son, by likely heed because he was but young. But how so ever Tyndale list to trifle/ these places plainly reprove and connycte his heresy, and prove priesthood an holy sacrament.  
Now falleth he to raylyng● upon the holy ceremonies of priesthood as shaving & anointing. And first he saith that if only shaven and anointed may preach or consecrated the sacraments: then christ did them not nor none of his apostles, nor any man in long time after/ for they used no such ceremonies.  
This is a worthy jest I promise you. If melysted here to trifle as Tyndale doth/ I could ask him how he proveth that saint Peter was never shaven, sith I suppose he neue● saw him/ or if he would put me to prove that he was shau●n, and therein when I could find no plain scripture for it● Tyn●ale would not believe me but if I brought forth his barb●●●: I might tell Tyndale again that I were not boside●●yth the s●●●pture showeth it not, to believe him that ●ayn● 〈…〉 cry●tened, till Tyndale bring forth his godfather.  
But these fantasies of his and mine both, go far fro the matter. The troth is that as god by Moses taught his synagogue certain goodly ceremonies for the garnishing of the service done to him by his chosen people there, and for the stirring of them to devotion: so hath he by his own holy spirit whom he sent to instruct his church, taught them holy ceremonies to be used about his blessed sacraments, to the honour thereof and to the increase of christian men's devotion, as in deed it doth what so ever Tyndale babble. Now be there among these, the shaving and the anointing of the pressed. And so is there thapparel of the pressed at mass, and many other observances used in the same. Now if some of the same were before used either among jews or paynims/ yet Crystes church borrowed them neither of the jews nor the paynims as Tyndale saith, but took them again of god. Now where Tyndale argueth that if none may consecrate the sacrament but only shaven and anointed, than christ nor any of his apostles might not, because they were never shaven nor anointed: he maketh a worshipful reason. For first our saviour christ the very inward anointed pressed, whom god had anointed with the oil of gladness above all his fellows: needed neither ceremony nor sacrament as touching himself. And as touching his apostles, though christ unto them instituted sacraments: yet he left many of the ceremonies to the holy ghost to teach, by whom they be instituted and by whom they be in the church continued. Now is there none that may consecrated the sacrament, but if he be first made pressed/ and preite is there none made, but the ceremonies of shaving and anointing are used in the making/ though they be not the substance of the sacrament of order, no more than the cathecismes and exorcisms at the crystening, be of the substance of the sacrament of ba●●ysme. And therefore though before those ceremonies used, priests might consecrate unshaven and unanoynted, when shaving and anointing was not yet instituted: yet now can there none do so, sith there is no pressed made unshaven and unanoynted. For if they make any at wyttemberge by a bare choice, without the giving of the sacrament of holy orders by such as have power to give them/ they be no prest●● 〈◊〉 may not consecrate at all, no more than may th● 〈◊〉   

Tyndale.  
And saying that the oil is not of necessity: let M. More tell me what more virtue is in the oil of confirmation, in as much as the bishop sacryth the one as well as the other/ ye and let him tell the reason why there should be more virtue in the oil wherewith the bishop anointeth his priests Let him tell you from whence the oil cometh, how it is made, and why he selleth it to the curates wherewith they anoint the sick, or whether this be of less virtue than the other.   

More.  
Tyndale here putteth many questions to me, which he will that I must needs answer because the oil in the making of a pressed is not of necessity/ but surely these questions be to the matter of much less necessity. How be it because I must needs answer to men of such authority, when the questions be so solemnly put: I say that if a bishop sacre the tone oil and the other both alike, there is no more virtue in the tone than is in the t'other. But I say that the oil being all one/ it is in the anointing of the pressed an holy ceremony/ and in the anointing of the child at confirmation it is the matter of an holy sacrament/ and in the aneling of the sick also, and every of these two is one of the seven, which the spirit of god hath taught the church of christ to know and use for vii sovereign means of very special grace.  
And therefore such difference is there, as is between the hallowed water standing in the font before it be occupied, or if it were sprinkled upon a man for holy water/ and the same hollowed water being occupied in the christening of a child at the time in which it is applied thereto. For in that time beside the goodness that it hath of the hallowing/ it hath another effectual goodness by God's ordinance, whereby it is made a mean of purging the soul fro sin and● infusion of God's grace, and of enabling the new regendred creature to inheritance of heaven.  
And when Tyndale asketh me in any of these things the cause & the reason why: I might as well ask him the cause and reason why, in the nature and property of any natural thing, best, herb, tree, or stone. which if I were so mad to look that Tyndale were able to tell me: what had he more to say, than that god had planted that nature and property therin● which answer shall also serve in these holy ceremonies and sacraments/ whereof the virtues be caused by god's ordinance thorough his holy words, whereof the profit is lymyt●● and po●●●n●d after such rate and degrees● as is to no man full & perfitly known but only to god that giveth it. And thus answer I Tyndale to these qstyones.  
He asketh farther from whence the oil cometh, and whereof it is made: what is that any more to the matter, then from whence the water is fet that is put in to the font, or of what grapes the wine was made that christ at his maundy turned into his blood  
Now where he asketh me why the bishop selleth it unto the curates wherewith they anoint the sick: thereto I say that the bishop sendeth it to the curates, because they should therewith anoint the sick in the sacrament of anoyling  
But why he selleth it to the curates if he so did: thereof can I not tell the cause/ but if it were peradventure because he would be paid therefore. But I can tell well that the bishop selleth it not to curates nor no man else, but the curatis have it sent them fire, but if they reward the bringer of their courtesy with a groat, which bringer is yet the archidecons servant, & not the bishops. And this I can tell for I have inquired for the nonies. And by this can I tell as well that Tindale here belieth the bishop shamefully for the nonies.   

Tyndale.  
And when he affirmeth that I say how the oiling and shaving is no part of the presthed: that improveth he not nor can do, and therefore I say it yet.   

More.  
It is very truth that I improve him not in that point/ but am well content that he say it yet, and I will say the same. But I improve that he saith every christian man and every woman to, is as verily a pressed as these that at the receipt of that holy order are both anointed and shaven. This is it that I improve/ and this is it that is a stark heresy though Tyndale say it yet.   

Tyndale.  
When he ensearched the uttermost that he can: this is all that he can say against me/ that of an hundred there be not ten that have the properties which Paul requireth to be in them. Wherefore if oiling and shauy●ge be no part of their preesthed: then ever more of a thousan●e ix hundred at the le●te should be no priests at all. And quoth your friend would confirm it with an oath and ●were deeply that it would follow, and that it must needs so be. Which argument yet if there were none other shift/ I would solve after an Oxford fashion with concedo couse quentiam & consequens.   

More.  
Tyndale here maketh a tale, as though it were a dialogue or rather a tryaloge, between himself, the messenger, and me/ saying that I in my dialogue did allege, that if ●ylynge and shaving were no part of their preached/ then of a thousand priests nine hundred at the lest were no priests at all, for lack that ●f an hundred priests, there be not ten that have the propertes that saint Paul requireth to be in them. And he saith the messenger would affirm it with a great oath/ and that himself would if there were none other shift, soil it after an Oxford fashion, with concedo consequentiam & consequens. wherein he meaneth that sith he showeth none other shift, he granted both twain for true/ that is to wit that except oiling and shaving be part of the priesthood, else it must needs follow that of a thousand priests nine hundred be none at all for lack of good conditions. And also he granteth not only that of reason it would so follow/ but also that it is true in deed, that for as so much as oiling and shaving be not the things that maketh them priests, and good conditions they lakke/ therefore they be no priests at all.  
But for as much as he saith that he will soil it so for lack of other shift/ he shall not need so to do/ for I will find him another shift myself, and a plain contrary shift, and soil it with nego consequentiam & consequens. For where as he granteth both to be true: I say that they be both false. And where as he maketh as though they were mine own words and the messengers with me: in good faith I neither remember them nor find them, all be it that I have purposely looked for them in all such places of my dialogue, as me thought it should be if it were there at all. And therefore leaving the point in questyone between us, till I come to reply to his answer made unto my dialogue/ at which time I shall read it over of necessity and must needs find it if it be therein: I will i● the mean while not let if I said it myself, to say that I said wrong. For by god's grace never will I wittingly while I live defend the thing that myself shall think untrue, though it had happened me to say it myself/ but that I shall well and plainly revoke it and call it bakke, not dissymuling mine own over sight. And would god Tyndale would do the like & Luther to/ they should then neither so stiffly defend so shameless heresies as they do, nor make so shameless gloss of their own formare words, when they see them so reproved that they can in no wise defend them/ nor so shamefully change from worse to worse, as Luther hath against his own conscience done in some one matter thrice.  
To the matter I say therefore, that it is false that if oiling and shaving be no part of the presthed, than it must follow that of a thousand there be ix hundred no priests at all. For I say that oiling and shaving be no part of the presthed in deed/ but be holy ceremonies used about the consecration/ likewise as in matrimony and baptism both, be diverse holy ceremonies used that be not the essential points of those sacraments. And therefore is it false that if oiling and shaving be no part of the presthed, the priest is no pressed for lack of prestely virtues. For the holy sacrament of order is given him by the imposition of the bishops hands upon him, in such wise as the church of christ useth and ever hath used sins the death of christ unto these days.  
And that the grace by god appointed unto holy orders is given with that putting upon of the hands/ is twice declared by saint Paul in his pistles to Tymothe/ & that so plainly that it grieveth Tyndales heart to here thereof, and maketh him to make a mokke thereat, and say it was but like as a man layeth his hand on a boy's head when he calleth him good son.  
But the place is for all that so plain/ that when Tyndale so playeth therewith and so lawgheth thereat: he lawgheth but from the lips forward, and gyrneth as a dog doth when one porreth him in the teeth with a stykke. And thus have I proved the consequency to be false, which Tyndale granteth for true. Now to thet other part, that is to wit the consequent which he granteth for true also, I say that it is false also. For like wise as he granteth that a pressed is no pressed at all for lack of prestely conditions: so might he say as well that a christian man is not christened at all, for lack of christian conditions. And because Tyndale will have a pressed nothing but an office: yet after his own false and fond fashion he should not grant it for true. For than must he say that every evil office, mayre, bailiff, constable, or sheriff if he miss use himself in his office, were forthwith out of office. And thus ye see that the consequent is false, which Tyndale also granteth to be true.  
But all this bysenesse maketh he for hatred and despite that he beareth to presthed, and to the divine service that the priests say, whereof himself saith none at all/ & for the malice that he beareth to the mass which himself never saith/ and unto the holy sacraments which the priests ministereth, and which Tyndale utterly striveth to destroy.    

Against Tyndales translating of charitas in to love rather than into charity.  
HEre maketh Tyndale a great process/ and telleth us that charity hath in english speech divers significations, sometime love, sometime mercy, sometime patience. And what is all this to purpose? Should he therefore leave out charity where it may conveniently stand? By this wise reason we should never use the word in one signification nor other/ lest the tone should be taken for the t'other. Now it liketh him to forget that the circumstances take away the doubt/ which thing sith he layeth so often for his excuse, he must be content that it also serve for his charge. For sith this word love that he setteth in the stead of charity, hath of himself some doubt also, whither it mean good or evil but if the circumstance somewhat set it out: what need was it to put the indifferent word love in the place of the undoubted good word charity, there as the sentence well showed that it signified neither mercy nor patience but love/ and then the word signified that it meant good love which is expressed by charity.  
Then showeth he that ●he greek word agape standeth so sometime, that he must needs interpret it love and not charity/ as though I had found a fault with him because he used this word love in such places as this word charity might not conveniently stand/ where I find the fault in this that he putteth out cherite where it might well stand, and that so often that he seemeth to mislike the name of charity.  
Now because I say that every love is not charity, but only such love as is good and ordinate: Tyndale answereth me, no more is every faith Crystes faith. That wot we well enough/ but yet put by itself it commonly signifieth Crystes faith in matter of the faith/ so that when we mean a false faith, we be fain alway to set some other word therewith, as when we say Tyndales faith, Luther's faith, frere Huyskyns faith and such other like.  
He putteth another ensample by this word hope, and saith that every hope is not a christian hope/ and yet he must use it & a thousand other words like, such as been indifferent and signify both good and bad/ all which if he should eschew, he should he saith translate no thing at all.  
who biddeth him leave all such words out? or who saith that he should never put in this word love? He answereth the thing that no man layeth to his charge/ and the thing that I lay to his charge he leaveth ever unanswered. For go me to his word hope which is indifferent, and signifieth as well hope of getting the love of his leman, as hope of reward in heaven for charity borne to his enemy/ though this be thus, yet if there were in english a word that signifieth none hope but a good godly hope, as charity signifieth no love but a good godly love/ then were he an evil translator, that where the place in greek or latin speaketh of good hope, would not translate it in to that english word that signified none other hope but good. And therefore it well appeareth that Tyndale doth not well, when there as the scripture speaketh of good love, he had liefer translate it by the word love, that is indifferent to both good & bad/ then by the word charity the signifieth no love but good. This is it that I charge him with, & to this I would have him answer once/ and not leaving this untouched, walk and wander at large & never meet with the matter.  

Tyndale.  
yet saith he farther: Agape and charitas were words used among heathen men ere christ came, and sygnyfy●d therefore more than a godly love. And we may say well enough, and I have heard it spoken/ that the turks be charitable one to another among themselves, and some of them unto christian men● Bysydes all this agape is comen to all loves.   

More.  
yet he is in hand again with agape often and bringeth not forth one wise word. For though this greek word agape signify love indyfferentely good and bad: yet this word charity signifieth no love but good. And therefore in such places of scripture, as agape signifieth good love: why should Tindale translating in to english, rather take this word love that signifieth no more good love than bad/ rather this word charity that signifieth no love but good. This I ask him yet again.  
Now though this latin word charitas was a word used among the heathen ere christ came/ & though it had signified in latin at that time among them an evil love and a naughty: yet this english word charity never signified among us any other love then good/ not even in that speech that Tyndale speaketh of, that turks be chartable among themself, & some of them to christian people to/ where it signifieth yet rather pity than love. And therefore Tyndale must in his english translation take his english words as they signify in english, rather than as the words signify in the tongue, out of which they were taken in to the english. And yet remember I not that charitas in the latin tongue was used to signify evil love. And I say to Tyndale yet ferther, that though this english word charity had been english before the birth of christ, and had then signified among english infydelys an evil wanton love/ ye though it had then among them signified none other love but naughty: yet sith it signifieth not that but the contrary now in our time, and so hath signified long before our days/ Tyndale must needs in his english translation use his english words in such signification as the people useth them in his own time/ and not in such signification as they were used in of old time, which the people have changed and forgotten hundrethes of yeries ere he were borne.  
For else he should make a gay confusion, if he would in the matters of virtue and christian faith use the old words after the old fashion/ and take ●ides for nothing but such as it signified ere christ came. Then where so ever he found in saint Austyne and other holy doctors persona patris, persona filii, persona spiritus sancti: Tyndale must call them not the persons but the visors of the father, the son, and the holy ghost/ & make men ween that they dance in a mask.  
And thus yet again ye see to how little purpose this reason serveth Tyndale, that agape and charitas were words used among the heathen ere christ was borne.   

Tyndale.  
Finally I say not charity god or charity your neighbour, but love god and love your neighbour.   

More.  
This is a pretty point of juggling/ by which he would make the reader look a side that himself might play a false caste the while/ and men should not see wherein the question standeth. For he maketh as though I reproved that he hath this word love in his translation in any place at all, where I neither so said nor so thought. But the fault I found, as in my dialogue I said plainly enough/ was that he rather chose to use this word love then this word charity, in such places as he might well have used this word charity/ and where the latin text was charitas, and where this holy word charity was more proper for the matter than this indifferent word love. This was the fault that I found. And therefore whereof serveth his trifling between the noun and the verb. I let him not to say love thy neighbour/ nor I bid him not say charity thy neighbour, nor good affection thy neighbour, nor good mind thy neighbour, ●● more then drink thy neighbour. And yet as he may say there give thy neighbour drink/. so may he if it please him say, here thy neighbour good mind, bear thy neighbour charity.   

Tyndale.  
Though we say a man ought to love his neighbours wife or his neighbours daughter: a christian man doth not understand that ●e is commanded to defyse his neighbours wife nor his neighbours daughter.   

More.  
This matter is somewhat amended here by this word, aught to love. But else if Tyndale fall not to the cheryting, but to the loving of his neighbours wife, or the loving of his neighbours daughter: I had as leave he bore them both a bare charity, as with the frail feminyne sex fall to far in love, namely sith he saith that priests must needs have wives.  
But where of serveth him this ensample. Did any man forbid him to use this word love. He maketh as though I forbade the word utterly/ because I forbid it him where he should not use it but charity. Thus crieth he 〈◊〉 upon all the church/ & saith they forbid all 〈◊〉, because they forbid the banies between freres and ●●●nes.    

Against 〈…〉 favour in stead of grace.  

Tyndale.  
ANd with like reasons rageth he, because I torn charis into favour and not in to grace/ saying that every favour is not grace, and that in some favour there is but little grace. I can say also in some grace there is little: goodness/ as when we say he standeth well in my ladies grace, we understand no greatë godly favour/ and in unyversitees there be many ungracious graces gotten.   

More.  
This is all that he sayeth for his putting out of grace and setting in of favour. And I pray you consider what cause hath he now shewede why he so should do. And yet his title of this chapter is, why favour & not grace, as though he would tell you why. And hath he now showed you any cause at all/ but thinketh that his proper scoffing is sufficient to change the known holy names of virtue thorough all scripture, in to such words as himself liketh. And now he pleaseth himself wonderfully well, because he hath found out so fetely that pretty scoff that grace signifieth sometime no good/ as when a man standeth well in his ladies grace. But he seeth well that I find with him the fault, for changing grace into favour, where the scripture speaketh not of the grace of my lady but of the grace of our lord. In speaking whereof all be it that God's favour is never but good: yet is in respect unto his creature his grace and his favour not alway one/ but he both favoureth for his grace, and giveth grace for his favour, & favoureth for his mercy/ and yet his favour and his mercy not both one, in respect I say to his creatures, though his own nature be so entire and hole, that all that ever is in him is all one. And yet where he putteth his ensample of standing in his ladies grace/ because it is yet but indifferent, for that may be good enough: he should have made th'ensample by ●●wde Luther & his lew● ladies grace. And when he sayeth that in the university many ungracious graces be gotten: he should have made it more plain and better perceived, if he had said, as for ensample when his own grace was th●●● granted to be made master of art. And thus gracyon ●● hath he quit himself in putting out of grace.    

〈◊〉 Tyndales changing of confession in to knowledge, & penances into repentances.  

Tyndale.  
ANd that I use this word knowledge and not ●●●s●syon, and this word repentance and not ●enaun●● in which all be can not prove that I give not the ry●●●● english unto the greek word.   

More.  
This is plain untrue that Tyndale saith, as I have plainly showed all ready in the words church, pressed, charity, and grace/ all which chapters who so read and consider from the beginning, and advise well Tyndales words and mine, be he learned be he not learned that readeth them, if he have natural wit and be but indifferent/ he shall (I doubt not find) Tindale in these points so clearly confounded, that he shall trust both his learning the less and his wit the worse while he leaveth after. Besides that he shall perceive also malice, hatred, and envy, so stuffed in Tyndales heart/ that all though he had great wit and learning both, yet must the mist of such blind affections needs blyndefelde them both.   

Tyndale.  
But it is a far other thing that paineth them and biteth than by the ●restis. There be secret pangs that pinch the very hearts of them, whereof they dare not complain. The sickness that maketh them so impatient is, that they have lost their juggling terms. For the doctors preachers, were wont to make many divisions, distinctions, and sottiss of grace, gratis ●ata, gratum faciens, praevenicus, & subsequens.   

More.  
Nay god he thanked they have not lost these terms yet, and god forbid they should. For these terms of grace be no englyush terms/ but terms necessary for the true knowledge of God's gyptes & graces. But Tyndale hath indeed lost them/ from whose heart the devil hath 〈◊〉 all grace, save gratia gratis data, and yet that to alm●●●e/●●yth which gratia gratis data all had he thereof ●yche 〈◊〉 than he hath, he might go forth as he goth the straight 〈◊〉 down to the devil. For those 〈◊〉 graces and 〈…〉 god giveth a man, whereof he may make a m●●●r of 〈◊〉 or a matter of vice as him list to 〈…〉 them to 〈◊〉, the man is much the worse for them as 〈◊〉, strength, learning, or wit. Gratia grat●● facie●●s, is that grace by 〈◊〉 the man is acceptable to god. As the grace given in y● 〈…〉 though it be to children, and the grace with which in faith, hope, and charity, man worketh good works, watch, fast, pray, give almose, and such other like as god rewardeth in heaven. Now for as much as man can do no good but if god begin, and he is alway ready to begin: therefore the grace with which god beginneth to set us a work, is called, gratia praeuen●ēs. And for as much as we should soon cease to, but if grace continued with us/ as our eye should cease to see, if that we lacked light: god continueth his grace with us to work, with us, which is called gratia cooperans. And yet for as much as he that well worketh with grace, deserveth of god by goddy●● goodness increase of grace according to the gospel, omni habenti dabitu● & habunda●it, 
Matth. 25  to every man that hath there shall be given, and he shall abound that well bestoweth his talentes of grace and worketh well therewith: therefore the grace that god giveth a man for the good use of his former grace, may be called gratia subsequens. And finally for as much as grace percevering with man at his end, bringeth him to glory/ which who so attaineth is then in surety of stedefaste and unperysshable grace and favour of god: this final grace is called gratia con●i●n 〈◊〉, that is grace that perfyteth the thing.  
Now sith every man perceiveth well, that all be it that in god all is one grace, with which he preventeth our good works; and with which he helpeth them forth in the progress, and which addeth and maketh more, abound, and with which he perfyteth his creature in glory: yet fyth that in us and our works it is diversely considered after diverse, respecties/ and of everich of those respecties falleth necessity for men in sco●●● oftentimes to speak/ specially for the repose of those heretics that would have no divisions nor distinctions, whereby the thing should be made open and plain, but would blind and beguile their hearers ●yth darkness and confusion: reason requireth to give every divers respect a divers name, along them that must often such thereof/ encent that they should in an argument 〈◊〉 third word repeat an hole ●●le, where one word 〈◊〉 ●ppon may well and sufficiently f●r●e.  
And therefore ye may● see that these be no juggling 〈◊〉, 〈…〉 devised with good reason and of necessy●●. But 〈…〉 subtile iu●●e● the devil/ hath tau●●● these 〈…〉 Luther Huskyn, a●d ●●●ndale, to fall to such false juggling: that they labour f●re to juggle away, not only those terms of grace and the very name of grace out of men's earys/ but also the byl●fe of all grace, and therewith the effect of all grace clean out of men's hearts/ and free-will and grace taken away, to make men believe that there is nothing at all but destiny/ and so pretending liberty, they put all in thraldom/ and pretending virtue, they drive men to vice/ and pretending god, they drive men to the devil. And this is Tyndales juggling/ which because he would not were perceived: to dissemble his false iugeling and have it taken for troth, he calleth the plain truth by the name of juggling, as ye shall here by and by.   

Tyndale.  
With confession they juggled, and made the people as oft as they spoke of it, understand shrift in the ear, whereof the scripture maketh no mention. No, it is clean against the scripture as they use it & preach it/ and unto god an abomination and a foul stinking sacrifice unto the filthy idol Priapus●   

More.  
This high godly spiritual man taketh for none abomination at all, but can abide well and hold very well with all, & not defend it only but commend it also/ that a nun consecrated unto god, should run out of religion, and do fo●le stinking sacrifice to that filthy idol of Priapus, that frere Luther beareth about to gather in his offering with/ & that they shall both, and a great many such reba●des more/ shame fully show their abominable bichery, to the corruption of the world openly. But he can not abide in no wise that any man should so repent his secret sin, that he should unto his confessor show it secretly. This can Tyndale in no wise abide. And why? For he would rather have sin showed in shameless basting, whereby it might increase and grow/ then shamefas●ely showed in confession, where it might be weeded out and cast away.  
I purpose not here to fall in dispicions with Tyndale for y● mate●/ nor at every lewd fellows blasphem●/ to bring the blessed sacraments in question. For sith Tyndale can not himself devye, but that sayne austin, 〈◊〉 Hierom, saint Ambrose, 〈…〉, and other holy saints have b●th used, 〈…〉, and taken c●●essyon for a necessary 〈…〉/ & every go●● man hath in himself ever fou●● no little spiritual profit and soul comfort therein: it shall not now greatly 〈◊〉 what a new founden sort of heretics bark & bawl thereat.  
And as for this word knowledge is very far from the greek word exomologesis/ & as far from the latin word confessio/ and yet much more from the very matter self, that is to wit from the sacrament of penance. For both the greek word and the latin, do signify an opening and a showing of the thing/ and the matter self meaneth a willingly offered declaration of the secret hid sin/ and this english word knowledge is anthyguouse & doubtful. For as it is a noun/ it signifieth but the knowing of a thing or understanding/ as where a man saith, this child hath yet no knowledge neither of good nor evil. And when it is a verb, or that it is turned in to this word knowledging/ yet signifieth it rather the not denying then the willingly telling of our own fault, and namely of our own offer. For that noun knowledging and that verb knowledge/ hath in our tongue their proper place, where the fault is by some other laid unto a man's charge/ and where this latin word agnosco or agnitio may stand in the place if they talked in latin. As where we say of a stuberne body that standeth still in the denying of his fault that is laid afore his face/ this man will not knolege his fault, or he will not be a known of his fault. And therefore is this word knowledge or knowledging not very meet nor very proper neither for the greek word nor the latin: and lest of all for the matter/ sith that confessing and confession is the willingly made declaration of our sin unlayed unto us by any man save ourself. In which doenge though the penitent use among with his confessor this word knowledging: yet is it rather his willing behaviour that se●●●th the matter, than the property of that english word.  
Now if Tyndale will tell us that confession and confessing is drawn out of the latin, and then will ask me what english word had we for the thing before: I ween we had before ●on● at all/ but ever sins the proper en●●●he word hath been shrift and shryving. For saving 〈…〉 goodness of god brought in that thing with his 〈…〉 of penance, which was brought in by the 〈…〉 were I ween far of from confessing of their 〈…〉 of their own offer/ and scantly would 〈…〉 they were laid unto their charge & 〈…〉 Only god hath brought in with the grace of the sacrament, that men are so supled and made humble in heart, that they will willingly go show themself their own sins to the pressed, whom god hath there appointed in his stead/ and there abide the shame and the rebuke thereof, and lowly submit themself to such pain and penance as their confessor shall assign them, and the same faithfully fulfil in punishment of themself for their sin.  
But this is it that Tyndale meaneth/ he would have all willing confession quite cast away, and all penance doing to, as himself showeth by and by.   

Tyndale.  
And in like manner by this word penance, they make the people understand ●oly deeds of their enjoining, with which they must make satisfaction to godward for their sins: when all the scripture preacheth that christ hath made full satisfaction for our sins.   

More.  
This is a great sin lo, that ever any man should take pain for his sin. Now though the scripture preacheth that christ hath made full satisfaction for our sins: yet would I fain that Tyndale should tell me where he findeth any one place in scripture, that Crystes satisfaction for our sins is in such wise full, that he will there be no pain put unto us therefore. Let us consider his own words y● follow.   

Tyndale●  
And we must now be thankful to go● again, and kill the l●stes of our flesh with holy works of gods enjoin in ge●a●d to take patiently all that god sayeth on my back.   

More.  
This is well and holyl●●●●ken. But now let pass fo● this once holy Luther and his holy noun with all their holy works that they work together, in killing the lusts of their flesh, in showing themself thankful agay●● 〈◊〉 god.  
I will ask Tyndale first, whither such h●●● works as god hath taught his church to be eni●●●●d, 〈◊〉 hy● by his goos●ly father/ be not enjoined unto 〈◊〉 by god. If not, he taketh away all the 〈…〉 of father 〈◊〉 mother, prelate & prince, 〈…〉 any good 〈◊〉 to be done to God's honour/ 〈…〉 in all such commandments, god commandeth Tyndale 〈◊〉 every man else to be obedient, and accounteth their ●●●maundementes for his own.  
yet if Tyndale will no pain enjoined but by gods own mouth/ nor suffer nothing laid upon his back but if god truss up the pakke himself and with his own hands, & bind it upon his back with a paksadle: then will I yet wit of Tindale whither god do not enjoin any such holy works, or lay any such burden upon the bakkes or repentant sinners for the sins that be passed, & whereof he is al● 〈◊〉 ●epentaunt.  
If Tyndale answer no: then shall we put him in remembrance of many places in holy scripture/ as well in Exodi, where he promiseth to punish the people for their idolatry notwithstanding their repentance and his remission to/ as in the second book of kings, 
2. Regum. 12  where he punished king david for his manslawghter and adultery notwithstanding his repentance/ & many places beside.  
Now if he grant that god punisheth the sin notwithstanding the repentance of the penitent, and the remission of his displeasure: then granteth he and so must he grant, that all be it one drop of Crystes precious blood had been sufficient to satisfy for all the synnies of this whole world/ and for all the pain also that were in any wise dew to the same: yet hath it not pleased him so to order it. But lest that such short forgiveness, as well of all the pain as of the displeasure of god, & of the dedelynesse, or as men might say of the damnabylyte belonging to the mortal offence/ might make men wax the worse, and set much the less by sin: he forgiveth at the repenting and by the shrift and absolution his high indignation, whereupon followeth the perpetual banishment from the sight of his face, and fruition of his glory into th'eternal tourment of hell/ but he leaveth ordinarily some temporal pain to be sustained for the evil act passed/ and that to be suffered either here by good works of penance doing, or other satysfactory pains or good works either in this world here or after this world in purgatory/ but if they be by other ●●lkys good deeds done for them thorough God's goodness relieved. And this I say as by good authorities appeareth our lord doth ordinarily/ not forbarring his absolute merciful power, whereby he may do when he will what he wy●●●  
Now if Tyndale grant as he needs must, that not withstanding the repentance and the remys●yon both/ & Crystes satisfaction also for theternalyte of the pain, and full restitution to god's favour/ yet there remaineth a temporal pain, or by good holy works other satisfaction for the same: then is it not against all scripture (as Tyndale saith it is) nor against any part thereof neither, that men shall with penance doing endeavour themselves to satisfy for that pain/ sith it is not god's ord●●●● pleasure that his passion shall serve every man for the satisfaction of that pain, because it accordeth not with his ordinary justice/ lest the fere of all pain utterly taken aways, men were likely to make little force how boldly they fall to sin.  
And then if it be well done that a man for his sin, willingly punish himself: why may he not meekly submit his will to the counsel of his confessor, and take penance at his hand.   

Tyndale.  
And if I have hurt my neighbour, I am bound to shrive myself unto him, and make him amends if I have wherewith/ or if not, then to ask hy● forgiveness/ and he is bound to forgive me. As for their pen●●nce the scripture knoweth not of.   

More.  
He never bringeth in a good word but for an evil purpose. He saith here very well concerning our duty toward our neighbours. But he saith maliciously to make us withdraw our duty toward god, for the satisfaction of the temporal pain that is dew for our sin, after the restitution to god's favour, and theternalyte of the pain forgiven. ●nd that pain god hath not ordained of comen course to be satisfied, by the only merits of Crystes passion/ but if men's works wrought with his grace beadded thereunto.   

Tyndale.  
As for their penance, the scripture knoweth not. The greek hath metanoia and metanoite, repentance and repent, or forthinking and forthynk/ as we say in english, it forethinketh ●e or I forthink, and ● repent or it repe●teth me, and I am sorry that I did.   

More.  
Tyndale herebereth us in 〈…〉 the scripture speaketh not of penance/ because himself giveth this 〈◊〉 word another english name. And because that Ty●●ale. calleth it forthynking and repentance: therefore all english men have ever hitherto, myssused their own language in calling the thing by the name of penance.  
Now as for the word penance what so ever the greek word be: it ever was and yet it is lawful enough (so that Tyndale give us leave) to call any thing in english by what word so ever english men by comen custom agre upon. And therefore to make a change of the english word, as though that all England should go to school with Tyndale to learn english/ is a very frantic folly.  
But now the mather standeth not therein at all. For Tyndale is not angry with the word but because of the matter. For this grieveth Luther & him/ that by penance we undrestande when we speak thereof so many good things therein/ & not a bare repenting or forthinking only, but also every part of the sacrament of penance, confession of mouth, contrition of heart, and satisfaction by good dediss.  
For if we called it but the sacrament of repentance, and by that word would understand as much good thereby as we now do by the word penance: Tyndale would be than as angry with repentance as he is now with penance. For he hateth nothing but to here that men should do any good.  
we have for our poor english word penance, the use of all english men sith penance first began among them. And that is authority enough for an english word/ except Tyndale will bind us to fetch authority of reason for every word of every language, out of Albert de modis significandi/ because that frere Luther, frere Huyskyn, and frere Lamberte, have so sore se● their study upon Albert de secretis musierum. And yet if he will needs prece upon us therewith: we may say that we take in penance of the latin word penitentia, which the church useth for the same sacrament/ or we may say that the word penance is derived and cometh of the word pain, which both in heart, in word, and in deed, the penitent should endeavour himself 〈◊〉 conceive and sustain for his sin. But this is it that Tyndale so sore doth abhor. For he consequently saith.   

Tyndale.  
So now the scripture saith repent or set it forthink you, and come and by● se●e the go●●●ll or glad tidings that is brought you in christ/ and so shall all before 〈…〉 ben● forth: sy●e a new life.   

More.  
Here seemeth a godly thing, and is in deed very devilish. For the words that be spoken to the heathen to come to christendom/ in thentry whereof at baptism they be new regendred to god, and cleansed clean & purged from all spots: these words draweth Tyndale to them that be crystened all ready, & keep their belief still, and yet fall into deadly sin again. For whose reconciliation again to god, our lord hath of his goodness instituted the sacrament of penance/ without which they that after baptism fall again to sin, do lose the fruit of their baptism if the time serve them to take it.  
And therefore saith holy saint Hierom, that the sacrament of penance is the board upon which a man getteth to land and saveth himself after the shyppewrake. which words of his, Luther in his book of Babiloni●● sore dispraiseth. For saint Hierome showeth that the sacrament of baptism is the ship, and was figured by the ship of Noah, out of which there was no man saved. And when a man breaketh the ship of his baptism in the storm of temptation, and falleth into the deep see of sin: then hath he yet his remedy provided by god, if he catch hold upon the board of the salt sacrament of penance & so swim/ and god will help while he laboureth himself to land. But Luther and Tyndale would have us ween that after baptism there needeth no more but repent/ and by and by all is gone again and clean washed away, sin & pain eternal and temporal and all together/ and that man in like case as when he came first fro the font.  
But who ●o consider well the ●ordes of saint Poule in the sixth chapter unto the Hebrews, shall find it far unlike/ where saint Paul saith in this wise: 
Hebre. 6  It is impossible that they which have been once illumined, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have been made per●eners of the holy ghost, and have also tasted the good word of god and the powers of the world to come, & then are slyden down: should be renewed again by penance, crucyfyeng again to themself the son of god, and having him in derision.  
Here showeth this blessed apostle Poule that the deadly sin committed after baptism/ putteth a man in that case, that it shall be very hard (for so is impossible sometime taken in scripture) by penance to be renewed again/ that is to wit to come again to baptism or to the state of baptism, in which we be so fully renewed, and the old sin so fully forgiven, that we be forthwith in such wise innocentes, that if we died forthwith, there were neither eternal pain nor temporal pain appointed for us, that is to wit neither hell nor purgatory. But that deadly sin committed after baptism/ is very hard by the sacrament of penance, confession, contrition, and great pain taken to, to bring us again in the case, that the temporal pain dew therefore in purgatory, shall be worn all out by our penance done here. In all which things we never exclude the special privilege of God's absolute mercy. For by his mighty mercy the thing that is impossible to man, is not impossible to god/ as our saviour saith in the gospel of Mathewe. 
Mat. 19  But I speak of the ordinary course of his comen ordinance, in which is excepted also the prayers and good deeds/ with which any man is beside his own penance helped and relieved with the good deeds of other men's charity, or the spiritual treasure of Crystes church upon good cause applied, conveniently toward the redeeming of his temporal pain. But else I say by the authority of saint Poule in this place/ that it shall be very hard for a man by penance wrought in grace, to be restored again to the state of baptism clear from all pain dew for the sin.  
For sith the sacrament of baptism which regendreth us and maketh us new creatures, doth not so fully apply the passion of christ for our satisfaction, that it so dischargeth us from all the pain of sin, but that we sustain yet every man for himself the pa●nefull twych of bodily death: we may well believe the apostle in this place, that the pain temporally due to our actual sin committed after baptism, is not so soon worn out and paid by penance, but that it is as saint Poule saith, a thing very hard to do. For the spiritual creature which baptism begeteth and createth of new: penance finding by sin again all to frus●hed, plastereth and patcheth up and maketh much wo●●e to cure the wound and bring it to a scar.  
●●●ude for my part be very well content, that sin & pay●● and all were as shortly gone as Tyndale telleth us. But I were loath that he deceived us if it be not so. And therefore to the intent it may the better appear that penance is necessary, and that to return to god and clean to be forgiven, is not so light a thing as Tyndale maketh it/ but that the church of christ appointing pain for the sin, and not a bare forethynking or repentance as Tyndale would have it, is therein taught by the holy spirit of god: let every man consider in what wise the prophet joel describeth the manner, with which man should return to god again after sin. The lord saith, 
Iche● 2.  return to me with all your heart in fasting, in weeping, and wailing. Tear your hearts and not your garments, and return to your lord god. For he is benign and merciful, patient, and plenteous of mercy, and ready to forgive sin.   

Tyndale.  
And it will follow if I repent in the heart/ that I shall do no more so wyl●lyngly and of purpose.   

More.  
In these few words there are many doubts. first how Tyndale taketh repenting in the heart/ whether he mean that who so repenteth in his heart shall no more do so again willingly and of purpose, as long as he so repenteth, or else that who so repent once in his heart, shall never cease to repent/ or though he do, shall never yet do more so willingly and of purpose while he liveth. And if he mean in the first manner, his words be little to purpose. For if he grant that though he repent at one time, he may cease to repent at another, and then do as evil as he did, and be as evil as he was: then had I as leave that he said y● man which once repenteth, will do so no more as long as he doth so no more, and will be good still till he be nought again  
Now if he mean in the second manner, that who so repenteth once in his heart, can never after cease to repent as long as ever he liveth/ or though he cease to repent shall yet as long as ever he liveth, never willingly and of purpose fall to sin again: them either of all that fall to sin again, that is to wit of all cryst●● people almost, there was never none that ever repent in ●arte/ in 〈◊〉 who so ever have once repent in his heart, all the 〈◊〉 that ever he doth after he doth none of them wylly●●●●/ or at the left he doth them not of purpose, but 〈…〉 by chance & myssehappe, ere ever himself ●ew●re thereof at adventure suddenly.  
Now if he say that never any which do sin again, did heartily repent before/ and than that he requireth 〈◊〉 then hearty repentance of man for his reconciliation to god: he preacheth us no gospel nor telleth us no glad tidings, but the hevyeste tidings that ever man told. For than he telleth us plain that of all christian people there is almost none that standeth in state of grace longer than the lack of reason excuseth the default of his deed/ or that the lack of life leaveth him no time to sin again after his repentance. For we plainly see that such as repent fall again to sin/ and so by him they never so repent that ever they were reconciled again to god in all their hole life. And then were there also much doubt of their death. For though it be good in some case, yet were it not good alway that every man were over bold upon the sudden grace that the these gate at last, that hung on the cross at Crystes right hand.  
And if Tyndale ween to make the matter more easy, because he saith he that repenteth in heart will do so no more, meaning that he will no more fall to that kind of sin: this will not serve him. For he falleth out of god's favour and the state of grace by the commytting of any other sin that is upon his damnation forbode. And therefore if hearty repentance be able for ever to keep him from one kind/ it must be able to keep him from every kind of like dedelynesse, or else it sufficeth not.  
Now to the other point. If Tyndale think to ease all the matter by this that he sayeth not, that he which repenteth in heart shall do so no more/ but that he shall do so no more willingly and of purpose: then riseth there another doubt what he calleth willingly and of purpose.  
He hath as it seemeth some other understanding of this word wylly●gly, than other men have. we say that if he do it not willingly/ he sinneth not at all if his will nothing do therein at all; except it depend upon some other sin of himself done willingly before/ as where a man sinfully falleth in drunkenness or in frenzy, and then dron●e● or frantyke doth harm/ or where as one man giveth other occasion of ruin, as Tyndale doth, when men be 〈◊〉 here with his books, and after damned for his here 〈◊〉, such men peradventure as he never knew/ and yet fallen all th●●● deaths both of body and soul in Tyndales nekke. For as 〈◊〉 saint austin sayeth/ the heretic that is a teacher 〈◊〉 a ●etter forth of heresies, though he be depeda●●●● in hell ●●●ll never ye● know the uttermost of his pain till the day of doom. For as many men as before the day be damned for his heresies: shall e●er as they come to hell more and more increase his pain.  
But else I say, where a man hath no will in the deed nor in the occasion thereof/ there is he as I think no partner in the sin. I wot not what Tyndale meaneth by willingly and of purpose. For he is wont to reckon as though there is nothing done willingly that is done of frayletye/ nor I can not tell what he calleth purpose/ how long time serveth after his reckoning to make it done of purpose.  
But this I wot well, allbe it that there be degrees & circumstances that aggrieve the sin & make it more weighty/ as when it is in the mind long continued, & done of pure malice, and such other things: yet if these lack so the damnable deed that god hath foreboden to be done in deed, by him that is not against his will forced there unto/ this ca●● we willingly done, & say that he sinneth deadly that so doth, all though he never purposed himself long before upon it. As if a man meet another and kill him s●●enly for an angry word/ or meet a maiden suddenly and so de●●ore here this would I call willingly, but if she were so strong or had so much help that she ravished the mān●s 〈◊〉 and dysuowred him by force.  
Now such things as these be, we dow●e not but the folk have fallen to again after repentance and after penances to/ and such as have been by the sacrament of penance res●●●ed unto the state of grace. And sith that these be damnable, whither they be before purposed or no: therefore if is partly false partly foolish that Tyndale saith, that who so repent in heart shall never do so more wyllyng●● and of purpose/ sith he that hath repent 〈◊〉 heart may do so again willingly and of purpose to/ & he that did 〈…〉 used purpose, doth it yet for all that 〈…〉 he do it willingly.  
And for conclusion though it may be say●● 〈◊〉 good men of good mind in exhortation in perseueraū●● 〈◊〉 good works, against the 〈◊〉 of such as 〈…〉 again, that they 〈…〉 lightness giveth 〈…〉 to think and say yet to put ye for a rule and 〈…〉 as Tyndale doth, that who so repenteth once in ha●te ●●all 〈…〉 willingly & of purpose/ & that they that sin 〈…〉 lyngly and of purpose did never repent in heart, is very ●alse doctrine & a very plain heresy.   

Tyndale.  
And if I believed the gospel, what god hath done for me in Criste: I should surely love him again, and of love prepare myself unto his commandment.   

More.  
It is undowtely a very good occasion to move a man to love god again, when he believeth the love that god hath to him, and the things that of very love god hath done for him. But yet it is not true that Tyndale saith, that every man which believeth this love, doth so love god again, that of love he prepareth himself unto God's commandments. I dare say that saint Peter loved him well/ and yet he both forsook him and forswore him to. But a man that well believed should peradventure prepare him to God's commandments, if neither the world, the flesh, nor the devil drew him bakke/ nor such heretics worse yet than all ●●re, 〈◊〉 the r●te of right belief out of his heart. And 〈◊〉 standen the words of Tyndale with Luther's holy doctrine, which he preacheth against the liberty of man's fire will/ whereof if man have none, as their heresy teacheth: then how can it be true that a man can of love prepare himself to the commandments of god?  
And finally if it be true that Tyndale saith/ that is to 〈◊〉 th●● if he believed the gospel he should surely prepare himself to the commandments of god/ and than if this be true 〈◊〉 as in deed it is, that he that doth (as Tindale doth) enfeetes his neighbours with deadly poisoned heresies against the blessed sacraments, & thereby maketh their bodies be burned in earth with his books, and their soul is burned in hell with his heresies, is the most tray●●rouse 〈◊〉 of God's commandments that can be 〈…〉 very clearly that Tindale believeth not 〈◊〉 gospel 〈◊〉 all/ and surely no more he doth.  
And now cometh he and saith, that I know that all y● 〈…〉 for his defence in the change of church, pressed, 〈…〉, penance, and such other is true: because 〈…〉 as he ●ayth the greek afore him/ where as I by 〈…〉 knowledge as I have of greek, latin, and of our own 〈…〉 tongue together, know his defence doth 〈…〉. And that have I so clearly proue●/ that to the 〈…〉 of both his 〈◊〉 and his ●oly, there shall not greatly need the knowledge of th●● tongues nor twain neither/ but an indifferent reader that understandeth english, and hath in his head any reason or natural wit. For all be it that the more learning the reder hath, the more madness he shall perceive in Tyndales defence of these things afore remembered: yet he that hath wit and no learning at all, shall clearly perceive enough  
And to that intent only have I taken the labour 〈◊〉 answer his defence, to make it open to learned and unlearned both, that he bringeth to the matter after his two 〈◊〉 musing thereupon, neither insyghte of any substantial learning, nor yet any proof of reason or natural wit, but only a rash malicious frantyke braid, furnished with a bare bold assertion and affirmation of false poisoned heresies. For saving to make this appear/ I needed not to touch those points at all. For every man well knoweth that the intent and purpose of my dialogue was none other, but to make the people perceive that Tyndale changed in his translation the comen known words to th'intent to 〈◊〉 a change in the faith. As for ensample that he changed the word church in to this word congregation, because he would bring it in question which were the church/ an● set forth Luther's heresy that the church which we should believe and obey, is not the comen known body of all christian reams remaining in the faith of christ, not falle● of nor cut of with heresies/ as Boheme is and some parte● of Germany: but that the church which we should believe and obey, were some secret unknown sort of evil living and worse believing heretics. And that he changed pressed into senior/ because he intended to set forth Luther's heresy teaching that presthed is no sacrament/ but the 〈◊〉 of a lay man or a lay woman appointed by the people to preach. And that he changed penance into 〈…〉 he would set forth Luther's heresy teaching that penance is no sacrament.  
Lo this being y● only purpose & intent of 〈…〉 Tyndale cometh now and expressly 〈◊〉 the same thing that I purposed to show. For he 〈◊〉 & writeth openly those false heresies in deed that I ●●yed then ●●teded after to do/ so that hy● self showeth now that I 〈◊〉 than shew● the people truth/ & th●●●eded I to make 〈◊〉 answer, sith his own writing showeth that he made his translation, to the intent to set forth such heresies as I said he did.  
For as for that that Tyndale calleth them none heresies but the very faith, forceth me but little/ for so hath every he retyque called his own heresies sins cristendom first began. But for all that the devil will be the devil though Tyndale would call him god.  
And I made my book to good christian people that know such heresies for heresies/ to give them warning that by scripture of his own false forging (for so is his false translation, and not the scripture of god) he should not bygyle them, and make them ween the thing were otherwise then it is in deed. For as for such as are so mad all ready, to take those heresies for other than heresies, and are thereby themself no faithful folk but heretics, if they list not to learn and leave of, but long to lie still in their false belief: it were all in vain to give them warning thereof. For when their wills be bend thereto, and their hearts set thereon: there will no warning serve them. And therefore sith Tyndale hath here confessed in his defence, that he made such changes for the setting forth of such things as I said: it is enough for good christian men that know those things for heresies, to abhor and burn up his books and the lykers of them with them/ so that as I say I needed none answer to all his defence at all, saving to make as I have done, both learned and unlearned folk perceive him for an unlearned fool. And yet defending himself so fondly, and teaching open heresies so shamefully: he sayeth it appeareth that there was no cause to burn his translation, wherein such changes founden as ye see, and being changed for such causes as himself confesseth/ that is to wit for a foundacyone of such pestilent heresies as himself affirmeth & writeth in his abominable books: he might much better if he cut a man's throat in the open street, say there were no cause to hang him but bid men seek up his knife & see it him safe. This might he in good faith much better say then, than he may now say that there is no cause to burn his translation. with the falsed whereof and his false heresies brought in there withal: he hath killed and destroyed diverse men, and may hereafter many, some in body, some 〈◊〉 soul, and some in ●oth twain.  
And 〈◊〉 where as in the end he looketh so much to me, that he forgetteth himself/ and making me another holy sermone of my covetousness, my great advantage in serving in falsed, mine obstinate malice against the truth: he forgetteth in the mean while that his own malice is against the truth in such manner obstinate, that he doth as the devil doth, endure pain for the maintenance of his false devilish heresies against the truth/ and putting me in mind again of the false prophet Balaam and his evil end, and that all such resysters of the truth come at last unto an evil death: he forgetteth in the mean while the double death that his fellows heretics commonly come unto, first by fire in earth, and after by fire in hell/ save they that at the tone renounce his devilish heresies, & so escape the t'other. Tyndale therefore where it liketh him to liken me to Balaam, Pharaoh, and to judas to, sith the pytthe of all his process standeth in this one point, that his heresies be the true faith, and that the catholic faith is false/ that the holy days nor the fasting days no man need to keep/ that the divine services in the church is all but superstition/ that the church & the ale house is all one saving for such holy preaching/ that men have no fire will of their own to do neither good nor ill/ that to reverence Crystes cross or any saints image is idolatry/ that to do any good work, fast, give almysse, or other, with intent the rather to get heaven, or to be the better rewarded, there is deadly sin afore god & worse then idolatry/ to think that the mass may do men any good more than the pressed himself, were a false belief/ a false faith also to pray for any soul/ great sin to shrive us or to do penance for sin/ freres may well wed nuns and must needs have wives/ and the sacraments of christ must serve for Tyndales jesting stoke: these be the trewthes that Tyndole preacheth. And because I call these truths heresies: therefore Tyndale calleth me Balaam, judas, and Pharaoh/ and ●hreteneth me sore with the vengeance of god and with an evil death. what death each man shall die that hangeth in god's hands/ and martyrs have died for god, and heretics have dye● for the devil. But sith I know it very well and so doth Tyndale to, that the holy saints deed before these days sins Cristes' time till our own, believed as I do/ that Tyndales trewthes' be● stark deuely●he heresies: if god give me the grace to suffer for saying the same/ I shall never in my right wit wish to die better. And therefore sith all the matter standeth in this point alone/ that if his heresies be the true faith, than I stand in apparel/ and if they be a false faith, I may be safe inought: let him leave his sermon hardly for the while, and first go prove his lies true, and then come again and preach, and frere Luther also & his leman with him to/ and than may the geese provide the fox a pulpette.    
Here endeth the second book, in which is confuted Tyndales defence of his false translation of the new testament.   

¶ The third book, Here after followeth the third book, in which be treated two chapters of Tyndales book/ that is to wit whither the church were before the gospel, or the gospel before the church/ & whither the apostles left aught unwritten, that is of necessity to be believed.  

whether the church were before the gospel, or the gospel before the church.  
TIndale hath all this while with his defence of changing church and other things used in the church, maliciously by him changed in his translation/ kept us as it were still striving with him in the church porch. But now have I won the porch upon him/ and we be comen to join together within the church. For now taking his translation for damnable as it is/ we be comen to try between us the falsed of his pestilent heresies concerning the church and the word of god, by the spirit of god taught unto his church/ with which heresies he corrupteth the word of god, and with poison infecteth his church/ as I have before manifestly declared, both concerning Crystes holy sacraments and diverse other articles of Crystes faith.  
But for as much as by the discourse of my dialogue, I proved clearly that nothing can be sure & certain among christian men not so much as the holy scripture itself, but if we believe the church/ and I proved also that the church of christ can not fall in damnable error, but hath been, is, & eue● shall be, taught by the spirit of god every necessary ●r●u●h to the belief whereof god will have them bounden/ and that this church is and ever hath been taught by the word of god partly written and partly unwritten/ and that those two words are both of one authority/ and finally did I prove that the very church of christ here in earth which hath the right faith, and which we be bounden to believe and obey, is this vnyuer●all known people of all christian nations, that be neither put out nor openly departed out by their wilful schisms and plainly professed heresies/ and that Luther's church & all the churches sprung out thereof, with all the prophets and patriarchs of the same, as Suinglius, Butzer, Balthasar, Otho, frere Huyskyn, frere Lambert, and Tyndale, be the synagogue of Satan and servants of the devil: now cometh me Tyndale and perceiving himself sore bounden to the stake with the strength of this chain/ beginneth to writhe and wrestle and fareth fowl with himself, to look if he could break any link thereof. where about for as much as he seeth that all the rabble of heretics have long laboured of old/ and yet their books vanesshed away to the devil with themself/ and that the devil hath of their dry ashes raised up an hundred sorts of new sects of heretics, much more blasphemous than ever were the old: he hath overloked studiously all their books/ and with all the poison that the devil hath put in them hath stuffed his mouth full, to spit it out again against god and his holy sacraments, and all good christian people whom he laboureth to infect with the fury, that they should not know the very church of god whereof themself be membres/ but would make them so mad as to believe that the church of god were some one sort of an hundred sects of heretics, & no mark among them all why more the tone than the t'other/ where as they must and do in this point all agree, that they be all false save one, and the troth is in deed that they be false everichone.  
Now to know that the nearer Tyndale cometh to the matter, the further he fleeth from that troth/ and hideth himself in the darkness of the devil, walking with a sconce of a dim light to make men w●●e he would show them the way, and leadeth them clean awry: ye shall here how boldly he beginneth/ and after shall I so show you the matter, that every child shall perceive his bold wily folly to come of no good trust in his cause, but lack of wit and shame.  

Tyndale.  
Whither the church were before the gospel, or the gospel before the church. another doubt there is, whether the church or congregation be before the gospel, or the gospel before the church. which question is as hard to solve, as whether the father be elder than the son, or the son elder than his father. For the hole scripture and all believing hearts testify, that we are begotten thorough the word. Wherefore if the word beget the congregation, and he that begetteth is before him that is begotten: then is the gospel before the church. Pause also Romano. ix. saith: how shall they call on whom they believe not. And how shall they believe without a preacher. That is, christ must first be preached ere men can believe in him. And then it followeth, that the word of the preacher must be before the faith of the believer. And therefore in as much as the word is before the faith, and faith maketh the congregation: therefore is the word or gospel before the congregation.   

More.  
Lo he that readeth this and heareth not th'answer, except himself be well riped in the matter: may ween that Tyndale in these words had quit himself like a man, & borne me over quite/ he solueth the objection so plainly, & playeth therewith so pleasantly. But now when ye shall understand that never man was so mad to make this objection to Tindale but himself: then shall ye laugh to see that he wresteleth all alone & giveth himself a fall, and in his merry solution mocketh also no man but himself.  
I said in my dialogue that the church was before the gospel was written, and that the faith was taught and men were baptized, and masses said and the other sacraments ministered among christian people, before any part of the new testament was put in writing/ and that this was done by the word of god unwritten. And I said also there, and yet say here again/ ●hat the right faith which Adam had and such as in the same faith succeeded him, long ere writing began, was taught by the word of god unwritten/ and so went from man to man, fro the father to the son by mouth. And I said that this word of god unwritten/ is of as great authority as is the word of god written.  
I showed also that the church of christ hath been, is, and ●uer shall be, taught and instructed by god and his holy speryt with his holy word of either kind/ that is to wit both with his word written and his word unwritten/ and that they which will not believe god's word but if he put it in ●●●●ynge, be as plain infidels as they that will not believe it written/ sith god's word taketh his authority of god th●● seeks it, an● not of man that writeth it. And there is like surety and like certain knowledge of the word of god unwritten, as there is of the word of god written/ sith ye know neither the tone nor the t'other to be the word of god, but by the tradition of the church. which church as all christian men believe, and the scripture showeth, and saint austin declareth, and Luther himself confefseth, and the devil himself sayeth not nay/ the blessed spirit of god hath inwardly taught, teacheth, and ever shall teach, to know, judge, and discern the word of god from the word of man/ and shall keep the church from error leading in to every truth/ as christ saith himself in the xvi chapter of saint johnns' gospel. which he did not if he suffered the church to be damnably deceived in taking the word of man for the word of god/ whereby it should in stead of service to be done to god, fall in unfaithfulness, and with idolatry do service to the devil.  
And therefore I showed in my said dialogue/ and yet the kings highness much more plainly showed in his most erudite famous book against Luther out of which I took it: that the word of god unwritten is of as great authority, as certain, and as sure, as is his word written in the scripture/ which point is so fast and sure pitched upon the rokke our saviour christ himself, that neither Luther, Tyndale, nor Huskyn, nor all the hell hounds that the devil hath in his kennel, never hitherto could, nor while god liveth in heaven and the devil lieth in hell never hereafter shall (bark they, bawl they never so fast) be able to wrest it out.  
And that they be all as I tell you so feeble in this point, whereupon theffect of all their hole heresies hangeth (for but if they veynquysh this one point, all their heresies fully be burned up and fall as flat to ashen as it were all moyse all obstinate heretics did) ye may see a clear ●roue by these words of Tyndale, which he hath set so gloriously forth in the fore front of his battle, as th●●gh they were able to win the hole field. For where as I said that the gospel and the word of god unwritten was before th● church/ and by it was the church begun, gathered, and taught/ and that the church was before that the gospel that now is written was written, that is to wit before any par●● of the gospel was written/ for as for all the hole gospel, 〈◊〉 is to wit all the words of god that he would have 〈◊〉 believed, and kept, was yet never written: this being the thing that I said, Tyndale with all the help he hath had of all the heretics in Almaigne this two or three year together/ is yet in such despair to be able to match therewith, that he is with shame enough fain to forget that I said the church was before the gospel written, which thing himself can not deny, and is fain to frame the doubt & make the objection/ as though I had said that the church had been before the gospel and the word of god unwriten/ whereof himself knoweth well that I said clean the contrary. And therefore good readers having this thing in your remembrance: take now the pain to read Tyndales words again, and ye shall have a pleasure to see how fondly he iugleth afore you. For now his craft opened & declared unto you: ye shall perceive that he playeth nothing clean/ but fareth like a juggler that conveyeth his galies so craftily, that all the table spyeth them.   

Tyndale.  
And again as the air is dark of it self, and receiveth all her light of the son: even so are all men's hearts of themself dark with lies, and receive all their truth of god's word, in that they consent thereto.   

More.  
And this liketh me very well/ and so much the better by cause that the goodness of god causeth Tyndale to speak these words, nothing touching the matter for any reproof of my book/ but only reproving himself and condenning all his hole sect. For I never said, nor no man else as I suppose neither christian nor heathen/ that god taketh his truth or his light of man but man of god. And therefore this holy sermone he spendeth but in waste/ saving as I said for the condemning of himself and his sect.  
For sith it is true that by the light of god as Tyndale here confesseth, men's hearts be cleansed from lies & false opinions and from thinking evil good, and therefore from consenting to sin/ and we see well that Tyndale and all his sect be set all upon heresies & false blasphemous lies, and think (if they think as they say) both evil good & good evil/ for they call Crystes sacraments evil and 〈◊〉 lechery good/ and so not only consent to sin but also commit and defend and teach the whole deed stynkyn●● 〈◊〉 of sin: it followeth by Tyndales own holy sermon here, that his own heart and the hearts of all his whole sect be the dark air of hell/ from which the light of gods own glorious son that came to give light in to the dark air of this earth, hath far wythdrawn his beams. And this hath Tyndale with his own holy words devised of none occasion/ and far from the matter but only to show the glory of his high spiritual phrase: nothing done at all but given himself a fall, and thrown all his matter in the mire.  
yet hath he one word, by which it appeareth that while he saw himself fallen: he would pull down other men in to the mire to him. For if ye consider his words/ ye shall see that he cowcheth them in such wise, that he would make men ween that where so ever there were a true belief and false opinions taken away/ that there it must needs be that men shall not consent to sin. which thing he doth for the colour and cloak of their false opinion, by which they teach that faith alone alway sufficeth/ wherein when they find themself so shamefully confuted and convicted, they be loath to seem to i'll by day, and therefore they i'll by night and retreat themself in the dark/ making as though they were miss taken and meant no thing, but that who so have a right believe & not a false opinion, it can not be but that he must needs do well as Tyndale saith here, that he which doth not believe evil to be good, he shall never consent to sin.  
As it is a great folly to affirm this/ so were it all most as much folly to confute this. For who is there that thinketh that to kill a man for his money is no sin and yet many wretches do it. who thinketh that adultery is no sin, & yet many wretches do it. who th●nketh that to wed a nun is no sin/ I dare say not even these wretches themself that wed them, but they verily know it for sin and yet the wretches do it. And therefore this tale of Tyndales is but a very folys●he heresy.   

Tyndale.  
Iohn xvij sanctify them o father thorough thy truth. And thy word is truth. And thus thou sayst that God's truth dependeth not of man. It is not true because man so saith o● admitteth it for true.   

More●  
whereof serveth all this while no man said the contrary.   

Tyndale.  
But man is true because he byle●eth it, testifieth, and giveth wyl●●● 〈◊〉 hy● heart that it is true.   

More.  
Nay pe●de this is not always true. For saint Peter himself was not true, when he testified & gave witness with his master in his heart, and yet forswore him openly with his mowth. And judas believed in his heart that God's word was true/ and yet was himself not true but a false thief and a false traitor to. And now adays also be there many false thiefs and traitors unto god, false heretics I mean, that by the word of god believe and wot well enough that it is abominable theft and sacrilege for a frere to wed a nun/ and yet as false harlots both, do and teach the contrary to their own belief.   

Tyndale.  
And christ also saith himself Iohn .v. I receive no witness of man. For if the multitude of man is witness might make aught true: then were the the doctrine of Machomet truer than Crystes.   

More.  
Now cometh he somewhat to his purpose in deed/ but he cometh to a full shrewd purpose. For by these words of christ in the fifth chapter of Iohn/ he would make it seem that there should no credence be given to the church because they be men/ and therefore can not as Tyndale saith ●ere ●ytnesse unto christ nor his word, sith christ saith himself I receive no witness of man. To this purpose hath he brought forth all his gay painted process before/ the glittering whereof he hopeth should so dase our eyen, that we shield not see the falsed of his short sudden conclusion, in which he knitteth up christ and Machomet together, to confound the credence and authority of Crystes church.  
But good christian readers, dyfferring for the while Machomett●s doctrine with whom Tyndale may make a match: I shall show you what fraud and deceit Tyn●●le here useth, both in the translating and in the interpretation of these words of our saviour christ, that he reher●●th written in the fifth chapyter of saint Iohn. christ in 〈◊〉 place neither meaneth nor saith, that he taketh no wit 〈…〉 man as Tyndale rehearseth/ but he both meaneth & 〈…〉 he taketh not his special witness of man but 〈…〉 to the intent that ye may the better perceive 〈…〉 heresy seem proved by the gospel, he 〈…〉 the 〈◊〉. ye shall understand that the latin tongue 〈…〉 article that the greek hath, and which article in part both ove english language hath, and the french also, and dyue●se other t●●ges, and it is in english this word, the. For wher● as we ha●e two articles in english, a and thee: a or an (for both is one article, to tone before a consonant the t'other before ● vowel) is comen to every thing almost. But the signifieth often times some special thing, and divideth it from the general. As when I say a man or a horse/ it standeth indifferent, & ●●●pereth not what man or what horse I mean. For if I vow be so unwise to say to my servant, go ●o me this stand to a man/ he should not wit what man he should go to. But wh● I say, go do this errand to the man: he woteth wel● that I mean a certain special man to him and me known, to whom the errand pertaineth. This article thee, doth therefore in our english tongue give great light unto the sentence/ and the greek tongue hath an article that doth the like in theirs/ & the lack of the like doth in the latin tongue leave often times the sentence obscure and dark, which ●olde with that article if the latin language had it, appear open and plain.  
I shall show you first an example thereof in the ●●●●● cha●pyter of the gospel of saint Iohn, which place Ty●●●le hath wrong translated also/ for what cause the devil and he knoweth. For Tyndale is not ignorant of that article, neither the greek nor the english, and maketh him felt as though he translated the new testament out of greek. The●e words be the words of the gospel in that place after Tyndales translation:  
This is the record of Iohn, when the jews sent priests and seu●●es fro● Jerusalem to ask him what art, thou/ and he confessed a●d denied not and said plainly I am not Criste. And they asked him what ●●ē, art 〈◊〉 lias. And he said I am not. Art thou a prophet. And he answered 〈◊〉  
I would not here note by the quaye, that Tyndale here translateth no for nay, for it is but a trys●e and wysta●●yng of the english word: saving that ye should se● he which in two so plain english words, and so co●●e as is 〈◊〉 and no, can not tell when he should take the tone, and 〈◊〉 the t'other/ is not for translating in to english, a 〈◊〉 very mete. For the use of those two words in answery●●e to a question is this. No answereth the question 〈◊〉 by the affirmative. As for ensample, if a man 〈…〉 Tyndale himself: is an heretic meet to transla●●●● scripture into english. Lo to this question if he will answer true english, he must answer nay and not no. But and if the question be asked him thus lo: Is not an heretic meet to translate holy scripture into english. To this question lo if he will answer true english, he must answer no & not nay. And a like difference is there between these two adverbs ye, and yes. For if the question be framed unto Tyndale by thaffirmative in this fashion. If an heretic fasely translate the new testament in to english, to make his false heresies seem the word of god, be his books worthy to be burned? To this question asked in this wise, if he will answer true english he must answer ye and not yes. But now if the question be asked him thus lo by the negative: If an heretic falsely translate the new testament in to english, to make his false heresies seem the word of god/ be not his books well worthy to be burned? To this question in this fashion framed if he will answer true english, he may not answer ye, but he must answer yes, and say yes marry be they, both the translation and the translator, and all that will hold with them.  
And this thing lo though it be no great matter/ yet I have thought good to give Tyndale warning of, because I would have him write true one way or other/ that though I can not make him by no mean to write true matter, I would have him yet at the lest wise write tre● english.  
But now to the matter self. ye see that by Tyndals' translation the jews asked of saint Iohn whether he were a prophet and that he answered nay/ and so he denied that he was a prophet. Now doth christ testify of him, that he was b●●h a prophet and more than a prophet/ so that if saint Iohn should say of himself that he was no prophet, and Crysts said yes/ either should saint Iohn say untrue himself, or else should there an vnt●●●th be spoken by the mouth of our saviour himself/ of which two things the tone is ●●●edyble and the other impossible. And in the latin 〈…〉 thing is left in doughty for lack as I told you 〈…〉 correspondent to the greek artytle & to the en 〈…〉 the/ and for that cause some eight holy men 〈…〉 were for 〈◊〉 of the greek tongue myth 〈…〉 be understanden 〈…〉 perceiving the article/ saw well enough that he should not have translated it in to the english, art thou a prophet, but art thou the prophet/ and then were the matter open and plain. For they asked him not whither he were a prophet, that is to wit whither he were any prophet/ but whither he were the prophet, that is to wit the great prophet of whom Moses prophesied and promised in the dewteronomy/ of which prophet there was opinion among many of the jews, 
Deuter. 18.  not that he should be christ but a great prophet that should come before him/ and therefore they asked saint Iohn, art thou the prophet, meaning that special prophet. And yet the jews that asked saint Iohn the question, notwyth standing that by their own question they knew that he did not in his answer deny himself to be any prophet, but that special prophet of whom they meant: did yet falsely rehearse him in their anger, when they said again unto him, if thou be neither christ nor Nelyas nor prophet, why baptysest thou then. And as the jews did then wittingly false rehearse him: so doth Tyndale as falsely now translate him/ making it seem that by their question and his answer, either saint Iohn should say untrue, or else ou● saviour himself. And for what intent let Tyndale himself tell/ but that he so doth his translation showeth. And that he doth it wittingly well appeareth, by that he is not so ignorant in the greek tongue, but that he knoweth the article there which he should have taken in to the english/ and in many other places so hath he done. And in this place if he had not perceived it himself: yet that good virtuous and well learned man Nicholas de lyra, gave him warning thereof/ whom though Tyndale list to set at so short and mokke and scorn, saying that Lyra desirat: yet he shall not say nay but he gave him good warning here, and hath in deed more good learning in the scripture of god, then hath Luther and Huchyns, and five frere Huys●yns, & as many frere Lambertes to.  
Now that I have showed you somewhat of the strength and effect of the article, both greek and english, which declareth that the word whereto it is set, signifieth not a thing generally and confuse at large, but some special thing determinate of that kind/ and that I have sh●●ed you one ensample thereof in the gospel which Tyndale h●●● evil translated: I will now go ferther and show you 〈◊〉 he hath evil translated also this self same text of saint Iohn to, which he now allegeth, & hath therein falsyfyed the words of our saviour himself, which he now bringeth forth for his purpose.  
The words spoken by our lord be as Tyndale hath translated them these, I take no record of man. In the latin they be thus Ego testimonium ab homine non recipio. which if it be translated into english without the article as the latin hath none/ then is it thus, I take not record of man, and not as Tyndale hath translated, I take no record of man He maketh his english as though the latin were, ego nullum testimonium ab homine recipio. And whither the sentence be precisely both one in these twain, I take not record of man, & I take no record of man: we shall not now need to dispute, sith Tyndale taketh the sentence wrong which of them both so ever were the words, as I shall show anon. But first I shall go forth and show you as I began, that he should have translated the words in to english otherwise/ and thereby have expressed the greek the better, and yet not contraryed the latin.  
ye shall therefore understand that in that place of saint Iohn the fift chapter, where Tyndale hath translated Crystes words in this wise, I receive no record of man: the greek book hath there upon this word record the article, that is as I have showed you correspondent unto our english article thee/ by which article put before the word record, that word there in the tongue in which thevangelist wrote the words himself, signifieth not a comen record in general, but a certain special kind of record/ as the greek article made the word prophet in the first chapter, to signify not a prophet in general, but a special prophet whom the jews looked for.  
And therefore I say that Tyndale should in his english translation not have left out that article thee/ but should at the lest wise have translated it thus, I receive not the record of man/ where as with his translating no record, that article thee, whereupon the weight of the sentence hangeth/ he hath not only left out but clean excluded also. For if he had translated it, I receive not record of man, though he le●t out the● yet he might take it in there to and mend it, making 〈◊〉 I receive not the record if man. But now that he hath translated it, I receive no record of man: he hath excluded it utterly but if he take in not, and put out his false no/ for he can not say I receive no the record of man. And this hath he done not of ignorance but of malice, to make it seem that christ utterly refuseth and rejecteth all manner witness of man, in testification and witnessing of him and his troth. And this translation therefore deviseth Tyndale/ because he would have us ween that christ would have the witness of all his church utterly serve of nought.  
But now because it will peradventure seem unto some men, that though he had in his translation expressed the greek article and made it thus, I take not the record of man, that yet it were all one and no difference between those words and these, I take no record of man: of troth the difference is not i'the for every man to man to perceive/ & yet some difference is there in deed, as there is between these twain: If a man would say in speaking of god and Moses, I take Moses for no leader of the children of Israel/ he should say wrong, for he should deny him to have been their leader in any manner wise, as he was their leader in deed. But if he would say I take not Moses for the leader of the children of Israel, he should say well enough/ for he should thereby not utterly deny Moses to have been any manner leader of them/ but he should deny that he was their only leader or their chief leader/ meaning that though he were a leader, yet god was the leader, that is to wit the chief leader. Now if any yet perceive not clearly the strength of this article: he may consider that it is not all one to say, I take you for no man, or I take you not for a man/ & I take you not for the man. The two first excludeth him utterly from all the nature and kind of man/ the third doth but deny him to the some such certain man as they mean of.  
But yet shall ye ferther understand that as I said in the beginning, though our article thee, be correspondent unto the greek article in declaring the certainty of the thing that it is put unto, and in restraining the word from his general signification to a more determinate especyaltye/ and that in many things this is very plain and clear: yet doth not our article sometime so fully and so effectually declare that thing as doth the article in the greek specially, but if we change the order of our english words from the order of the greek. And therefore I say, that to put away the doubt and for the better expressing of the article/ Tyndale should in the translating of that place, have changed somewhat the order of the words. And where they lie in the latin in this wise: I receive not the record of man/ he should rather have translated it thus: the record I receive not of man. For by so translating those words, and so changing the order: he should have gone more near to the expressing of the very sentence that christ there spoke and meant/ which was that the special record he took not of man but of god/ and not that he would take of man no manner record at all, as I shall anon so clearly prove you, that Tyndale shall never while he liveth wade out thereof.  
But first it will happily seem hard to some men, that he which translateth should in his translating make any change in the order of the words. ye shall understand that it is a thing which he must many times needs do/ because of the manners and forms of speaking in divers languages. For if he shall alway translate word for word and in the order as it standeth/ he shall sometime give a sentence unable to be perceived or understanden/ and sometime a wrong sentence, ye & sometime a contrary to, of all which I could give you samples were it not both needles & also to long for this present book.  
I will therefore of a great many give you but one/ in which Tyndale hath for lack of changing the order of the words, translated a very plain place in the very beginning of saint johnns' gospel, whither wrong or no let other judge/ but surely otherwise then I would have done.  
His translation is this, In the beginning was that word, and that word was with god, and god was that word.  
first this word that, putteth Tyndale for the article thee, whereof I have showed you before/ wherein he doth much a miss. For it is no doubt but that it is here put for to signify the specyaltye of the thing, as of god and the word/ because there be many words, and the paynims worshipped many gods/ the article is set to those words to signify not a word nor a god, as though it were one of the many words of men, or one of the many goddies of paynims/ but the god and the word that is the singular god and the singular word, that is to wit the word of god. And that article is not in english this word that, as Tyndale hath translated/ but this word the, as he should have translated/ but if he will turn the article out of his kind.  
A man may say the man that we spoke of was here, or that man that we spoke of was here. But and if he speak of him absolutely, without mention of any speech before had with him, he must then say, the man was here/ and may not say, that man was here, but if he add somewhat to it.  
If ye speak of the chief capitain of the field/ ye may say, the capitain will march on to morrow. But ye may not say, that capitain will march on to morrow, but if ye show which capitain by some other token, or else point him with your finger. And Tyndale knoweth this well enough/ and therefore he calleth god all way the lord, and not a lord nor that lord. And therefore I marvel why he translated In principio erat verbum, In the beginning was that word/ for surely that word that, was not to begin with all nor to stand there, but if Tyndale intended to mock.  
But as I was about to say, where he translateth god was the word/ all be it that in the greek and in the latin it doth well enough, and in the english that manner of speaking may stand in many other things, and specially in the plural number, or in the first person or the second singular, where the things that we speak of or the article or the diversity of the word which is in the verb in our english tongue, changed in those two persons singular, taketh the doubt away, and maketh the matter open which of the two terms we take for subiectum and which for praedicatum: yet in this great matter I would rather in our own tongue have changed and turne● the order of the words & translate it thus: the word was god/ then as Tyndale doth god was the word/ likewise as I would in english rather say christ was god, than god was Cryst. For these words god was christ, or god was the word be not well spoken/ saving that we understand thereby the t'other with the words changed, that is to wit christ was god, and the word was god. For else understanden as it standeth god was christ/ were as much to say as that all the three persons the father, son, and holy ghost were christ all three.  
How be it I say not this to show that I think that Tyndale meant any evil in this/ nor I impugn not in this pa●●●● his translation so greatly, but it may be borne: but 〈◊〉 the t'other is in english better and more clear. And 〈◊〉 this/ to show that the order of the text in scripture, may be sometime by the translator better changed then kept. And I tell you this to th'intent that ye may the more clearly perceive, that Tyndale should not have letted in the other place that he alleged in the fy●the of saint Iohn, I receive no record of man/ to change the order of the words with setting in the article, and to have said, the record I receive not of man. ye and sith the article signifieth the special kind of record: rather than to do as he hath done leave it quite out, as though god refused all manner witness of man/ he should rather have translated it, the chief record I receive not of man/ as himself hath in the xiiii of saint Iohn translated, the chief ruler of this world cometh/ where as in the greek is not this word chief/ but that he putteth it in himself because of the article, which he would not withdraw from the devil, te●●● he should have minished his honour. But he withdraweth it here from the witness of god/ because he would take from god the witness of all true christian people, which by their true belief do set their seals as witnesses to the truth of god.  
Now if he will contend and strive with us upon the vigour & strength of this article thee, or of his correspondent in the greek/ and bring us forth example in our speech or in the greek either, in which it may seem that those articles have not always that man●r strength: all this shall nothing 〈…〉 all.  
〈…〉 receiving. Now it is not all one to say I take no record of man, & to say I receive no reorde of man. For the tone signifieth that I care not greatly for it, nor y● I●wyll not go above it. But the t'other I receive no witness of man/ signifieth that I will not receive it but refuse it though it be offered/ or else another thing which will not serve for Tyndales excuse, that is to wit, I receive none because no man o● earth me none. But christ without seeking for it, was offered the witness of saint Iohn/ which Tyndale maketh as though christ rejected, while he falsely translateth the words or our saviour, and maketh him say, I receive as witness of man.  
Now shall I plainly show you by many places of scripture, that it is false that christ receiveth no record of man/ and than may ye thereby see that Tyndale hath translated false. Or if he would blind you with brabelynges upon the greek tongue/ ye shall at the lest wise perceive plainly, that he taketh the sentence falsely. For these two be plain repugnant, that god receiveth some record of man/ and that god receiveth no record of man.  
For Tyndale can 〈◊〉 saye● here that christ spoke it there by the figure called ype●bole, as saint Iohn did where he sayed● his witness no man taketh, meaning very few. Our saviour himself in the. xxliiis chapter of saint Luke, when he had showed his apostles and other of his disciples that all thing written of him by Moses and the prophets and in the psalms, were and most be fulfilled/ and thereupon opened their wits to the understanding of scripture, and said unto him, thus it is 〈◊〉 & thus it dehoved Criste to suffer and to rise again from death the third day, & 〈◊〉 penance and ●omyssyon of sins should be preached in his name among all nations beginning at Hierusalem● he said unto them further, and ye are witnesses of ●●●ges/ & lo I will send the promise of my father 〈…〉 but tarry you in Jerusalem till ye be endued with power from an high.  
 
He sayeth also himself 〈…〉 end. The new testament is full of those places/ in which it appeareth plainly that men be the witnesses of god. For though that his truth is so justified in it self, that it needeth no witness neither of man nor angel, as touching any need that god hath for himself: yeth sith he intendeth to work the way to man's salvation, not by only miracle (whereby he might if he would so wrest man●es will to consent, that he should not fail to believe/ or cast in to the he●●● such● a light of understanding, that he should not fail to know every article of the faith) but also by a natural way joined thereunto/ wherein the will of man may by the labour of himself with god in the captyving of his wit, with help of grace in to the obedience of the word of god, somewhat endeavour himself toward his own salvation by faith: it pleaseth god to use in this way the witness of men for a mean/ as he saith in the same .v. chapter speaking of the witness of saint Iohn, where he saith, there cord I take not of man, but I tell you this because ye should be s●●ed/ giving them knowledge that though his credence hang not upon the mouth of man, for he hath as he there saith a greater witness than the witness of saint Iohn, that is to wit the witness of the father himself: yet was it ordained that he should have also the witness of saint Iohn, & so afterward of his evangelists & apostles, ye & after that of his other holy doctors & saints of every age, & specially, the witness of his hole 〈…〉 ere & give credence unto them for a mean by god provided, by which man should come to faith for his salvation. Here ye ꝑcey●● that not only in other places of holy scripture/ but also in the self same place that Tindale brings ●●●th him 〈◊〉, willing by his false translating & false understanding, to make men w●ne that god taketh no ma●er witness of man: it is clearly proved that he neither said nor 〈…〉 ●aner/ but that he received not his 〈…〉 use he had greater record than 〈…〉 which his father 〈…〉 of his father him 〈…〉 he received and accepted 〈…〉 the witness of man also, 〈…〉  
〈…〉 which is the spirit of troth that 〈◊〉 ●●●●eth of the father, he shall bear witness of me/ and ye shall bear witness also, because ye have been with me from the beginning.  
And yet for because we should not by these words ween that he would have no witnesses of ●enne, but those only that were with him in his own time while he lived here on earth: god saith by the mouth of saint Iohn the baptist in the four chapter of saint Iohn the evangelist: he that cometh from heaven is above all, and testifieth: the things that he hath seen and heard; and his testimony 〈…〉 ●eceyueth. who so ever do receive his record hath put his seal thereto that god is true. And what is that to say ● but that every true believing man is a witness that god is true.  
And thus appeareth it not only that Tindale hath miss translated and miss construed these words of christ, I receive no witness of man, for the furnysshing of his heresy, by which he would take away the credence of Crystes catholic church: but also ye see it proved by these words of saint john bapty●te, that every true believing man that believeth god's word, is a good witness of god and his word/ which clearly proveth that Crystes catholic church is a very special witness. For only in that church is the number of true believing me●●●/ and all that are fallen out of that catholic known church are very false believing heretics.  
And also sith our saviour saith, my cheyse ●ytnesse I take not of man/ but yet I say to you this, that is to wy●●e the witness of the good holy man saint john, because ye should be saved: it appeareth that Tyndale refusing all witness of man, is likely to be one of those that for ● 〈◊〉 nes ●●ue● shallbe saved.  
Now all be it that I have in this 〈…〉 vycted Tyndale of ma●● 〈…〉 by 〈…〉 verting the holy scripture of god, as well in 〈…〉 as in the sentence, for the setting for th●●●ys it 〈◊〉 resye/ taking away the 〈…〉 give to the church of god, and the 〈…〉 men are bounden 〈…〉 doth all this because 〈…〉 bring men into the 〈…〉 myth as I see that Tyndale 〈…〉 py●et● and would we sh●l●e 〈…〉 handled, I will a little stykke the longer therein/ to th'intent that I may make you the better and the more clearly perceive, that all that he saith therein is either plain untrue, or else such part as is true proveth his purpose false.  
And for as much as Tyndale is all in the word of god/ and would thereby make us ween that men's words should utterly serve of nought, not so much as for the witness of God's word: ye shall understand that where Tyndale saith that the word of god cleanseth man's soul from false faith, jo.u. ye be clean by reason of the word/ it is not true that (as Tyndale would have it seem) the word alone cleanseth the soul from false faith, no more than faith alone as he would have it also seem, cleanseth the soul fro sin. For beside the grace and goodness of god preventing men's will, with offering man by the hearing of his word a gracious occasion of faith/ & bysyde man's own will working with grace toward the captyving of his understanding, toward the belief of god's word/ & bysyde the grace, aid, and help of god working with man's will toward that obedience, whereupon followeth the grace that accomplisheth and perfay●eth the full act of belyving: besides all these I say there helpeth toward it another thing, without which many a man should never have comen to it/ and that is bysyde the word of god, the wonderful works of god in ●oyage great and marvelous miracles, without which in 〈◊〉 a man should never have believed that he had been god/ as himself testifieth in the .v. of saint Iho●, saying: The works which my father hath given me to do: the same works which I do, they be witness of me that my father sent me.  
will ye see that christ putteth not all in his word, but joineth his work the ●●●yth. Here what he saith in the xu chapter of saint Iohn. If I had not comen and spoken unto them, they should 〈◊〉 sin/ but now have they nothing to cloak their sy●ne withal. He that hateth me hateth my father. Now though this be in deed true, that if 〈◊〉 had never comen and spoken to them, there could not 〈◊〉 been laid unto them the sin of that 〈◊〉 〈…〉 ere now 〈◊〉 when they refused to believe on 〈…〉 hated 〈◊〉 to show that h●s only 〈…〉 wrought miracles among them for the proof of his word● therefore he saith further, If I had not 〈◊〉 works among them which none other man did/ they should be without sin. But now they have seen and yet have hated both me and my father.  
Thus have I clearly showed you that where Tyndale would have it seem, that god's word alone alway cleanseth men's souls from false faith: he teacheth in that a false faith/ for the miracles many times help to the cleansing of men's souls.  
And let Tyndale stick well to this point/ for I intend shortly to show by this, that the miracles wrought in Crystes church, clearly reprove all the false faith that he & his master, & all their whole hundred sects that are their ofsprynges preachen.  
But first where Tyndale saith that god's word is true/ & layeth therefore the xvii of saint jon: no man saith nay to y●. And where he saith further, the god truth dependeth not of man's word: we will graute him this, & much more to then he looketh for. For I say ferther that the troth of god dependeth not upon gods own word neither/ but is absolutely true in it self without any dependaunce upon his word at all. And as it is true that Tyndale saith, that god's truth is not true because man so saith: so is this true also, that god's truth is not true because god so saith. But on the t'other side likewise as this argument or consecution is true, god saith that who so believe not his church/ is to be taken as a paynim, ergo that thing is true: so is this consecution true, Crystes church ●ayth the who so break his vow of chastity synnet● deadly, & who so holdeth it for leeful holdeth an heresy/ e●go these two things be true, and yet is neither the ●●ye●● of the church the cause of the truth of these two, nor the saying of Criste the cause of the truth of the t'other. But likewise as y● I 〈◊〉 sit, it must needs be that he sitteth while I see him sit/ b●●●use I could not see him sit but if he ●atte in deed/ & yet he sitteth not because I see him sith, for 〈◊〉 should though I saw him not/ 〈…〉 upon the troth of his deed. For though the word of god can not be but true, sith if the thing were not true, god that is the truth would not say it: yet is the thing true that god speaketh/ not because it is truly spoken, but because it is truly done. For truth was the thing in it self, & truth it should have been, all had it never be spoken. And this I say is true, touching the words and propositions by which god any thing telleth to his creatures by writing or without/ lest Tyndale make us here some sophistication, as though I spoke of the great word of god whereby all thing is made, the son of god himself one equal god with his father and their holy spirit.  
If Tyndale ask us now whereof serveth then the truth of god's words: I say that it serveth to make known or believed among us the truth of god's deed. For when god saith, who so believeth and is baptized and liveth well after, or doth penance for his sin/ shall for his faith & good works be highly rewarded in heaven: though this shall not be true because god saith it, but because he will dot it/ nor he doth it not because he will say it, but he saith it because he will do it: yet hath he ordained that his word shall be the way by which that troth shallbe showed us/ and that miracles joined unto his word should make us perceive that it is his word, whereby with reason we must nede● be bounden to believe it/ and it being believed, we ●e by reason ●●unden to obey it.  
And this y● therefore the way that god hath taken from the beginning, that is to wit he hath from the beginning joined his word with wonderful works; to make his word perceived for his own.  
Thus 〈◊〉 he in eu●ry age before the coming of christ. Thus did he in christ himself, whose words he proved by his wonderful works as himself saith in the xu of saint Iohn. Thus did ●e also by his blessed apostles, whose doctrine he 〈◊〉 by 〈…〉. And thus hath he done 〈…〉. For likewise as when he sent his own son, 〈…〉 him and his doctrine decla 〈…〉 self such as he was ● god made him do myra 〈◊〉 〈…〉 then ever any did among 〈◊〉 〈…〉 the sent his apostles & 〈…〉 that christ did, the countries to whom they were sent, would have went that they had lied, and feigned such fables themself: therefore christ caused them to do miracles in his name before the people/ as god caused Moses to do before Pharaoh. And when the world was turned to him; and that apostles were not sent about: then was the church of every time, the apostle to such as were bor●e and came in to the world in their time/ of whom such as lived and remained after their time/ were in their stead left for the apostle that should teach & preach to those other that should be borne in to the world in their time, and so forth from age to age. And for because that they which from time to time come in to this world, new borne first of their fleshly father and mother, and after of god and their mother holy church by the water and the spirit, should be sure that their said mother the church is Crystes apostle and teacheth them the true doctrine, & neither deceiveth them with false scripture, as doth the congregation of turks/ nor with false traditions, as do the synagogues of jews/ nor with false expositions as do the false churches of heretics: he causeth his church to do miracles still in every age, and to be discerned and known by the plenteous working of God's wonders by himself wrought therein so many and so great that no man can be ignorant thereof, but he that will neither see nor here/ or is so desperate and so sore set in an obstinate malice that he will to the devil willingly, by doing now as the jews did of old, and as Tyndale now doth of new/ ascrybing the miracles wrought by the goodness of god to be done in god's church by the power of the devil.  
And yet when Tyndale is so 〈◊〉 to tell us thus/ he toucheth nothing this point chyche I laid against him in my dialogue/ that if his ly● were 〈◊〉 in, than shold●● follow that of so ma●● false chyrche●●f false heretics, 〈◊〉 should some such miracles be wrought as well as 〈◊〉/ sith if that our church were a false church, it 〈…〉 one of the many. And if he will say that 〈…〉 the greatest and the falsest, and therefore ●alse 〈◊〉 therein 〈…〉 they stretch from heaven to hell: they have not yet among 〈◊〉 all 〈◊〉 miracle done great nor small; neither by god nor devil.  
And this I show you for the order of the thing, that ye may perceyi●e that the truth of god is ●ustyfyed in itself, and dependeth not upon his word, nor his word is not the cause of his truth: but by his word he showeth his truth/ and by his word we believe that he doth it/ and by hy● ap●●●●es and euangelys●es we believe that he said it/ a●● by the church of every age following, we be taught and believe that the eu●ngely●es a●d the apostles preached and taught partly by writing partly by word without writing, such things as the catholic church of christ telleth us to have been taught by them. And by the miracles done in the same catholic church, we know that the same church is the ●e●y church of god/ and that the doctrine of the same church is revealed and taught unto it by the spirit of god/ and that all other congregations 〈…〉  
And therefore though it be true as in deed it is, that the true doctrine doth prove the true miracles, and false doctrine proveth the false miracles/ by which we be sure that the christian miracles be true, & the paynims miracles false: yet know we which is that true doctrine, by the reason that the true doctrine hath been better proved and daily is better proved, by more and greater than ever was the false doctrine or ever shall be to the worlds end. For as our saviour saith himself: If I had not come & wrought works such as no man else had done/ they had been without sin. And he promiseth that his preachers shall do the same, and yet greater/ and so did his apostles, and his disciples, and his holy doctors, ever synnies in every age.  
And as for false miracles/ the catholic church of Criste as it is taught by the spirit of god, discerneth them well enough from the true/ and therefore it discerneth and forbe death the marvels that appear in crystal stonies, and such other supersticious conjurations/ and is not moved any thing to set by them, but condemn them though they be marvelous/ & hath the spirit of god according to Crystes promise assystent, whereby it both rejecteth the supersticious marvels, and worketh the very faithful miracles, for the proof of the true faithful doctrine and the true mark and knowledge of Crystes very true church, sith none hath miracles but it.  
Now if Tyndale will say that the doctors of the catholic church have not done miracles for every point of their doctrine: I say no more did the apostles themself, though Tyndale say yes, which he shall never prove. But by their miracles they proved th●m self true preachers and gods true messengers/ and that thing sufficed for the proof of their whole doctrine. And so god hath done miracles synnies for all his saints in every age/ and that sufficeth to prove that their faith was true and the contrary false.  
And if he say farther that every man in the catholic church doth not miracles, nor every doctor neither: to that I answer that of many men teaching all one faith, it sufficeth if any one of them do miracles. For when the jews were in desert/ every man that was of the well believing sort did not miracles/ nor 〈◊〉 also did no miracles but Moses did, & god wrought ●onders among themself.  
Nor when diverse apostles went together/ every one of them did not alway a miracle by himself. But sith they were all of one faith: it sufficed for the proof of the teaching of them all, that any one of them did.  
If he will say that sometime the doctors which we call holy saints, have not all agreed in one/ but some one hath sometime thought in some one thing otherwise then other have done: I say that this his saying is nothing to purpose. For god doth reveal his truths not always in one manner/ but sometime he showeth it out at once, as he will have it known and men bounden forthwith to believe it/ as he showed Moses what he would have Pharaoh do. Sometime he showeth it leysourly, suffering his flock to comen & dispute thereupon/ and in their treating of the matter, suffereth them with good mind & scripture and natural wisdom, with invocation of his spiritual help, to search and seek for the truth, and to vary for the while in their opinions, till that he reward their virtuous diligence with leading them secretly in to the consent and concord and belief of the troth by his holy spirit qui facit unani mes in domo, which maketh his flock of one mind in his house, that is to wit his church. So that in the mean while the variance is without sin, and maketh nothing against the credence of the church/ except Tyndale will say that he will neither believe saint Peter nor saint Paul in any thing that they teach/ because that once they varied in the manner of their doctrine as appeareth. But he shall never find that any of the holy doctors held obstinately, the contrary of that thing which the hole catholic church had in his time determined for an article of the faith. For I dare surely say that if any so had done/ he had repent and changed are god did any miracle for him either quykke or deed.  
And therefore as touching Tyndale and Luther & frere ●usken: this obte●cyon will not excuse their obstinate heresies, holden so● stiffly against all the old holy saints, while they say now that freres may well wed nuns/ but if they repent, and leave their heresies, and do penauns, and teach troth/ for by such means they may yet be fayntes to, and so I 〈◊〉 god make them.  
Now if Tyndale will yet further say, that the church it self have not 〈◊〉 in every age utterly believed a like/ but that the church in some age hath believed otherwise then it hath in some other: I say that this can also nothing serve his purpose. For what so ever Tyndale sye: never shall he prove the contrary, but that god is at his liberty still and ever still shallbe, to teach his truths more and more, as his pleasure shall be to have them known, and to govern his church to his pleasure in diverse ages after diverse manners, such as himself list for to devise/ whereof his church is by their hole consent sure. For else shall the spirit of god assistant ever with them by god's promise, & leading them in to all troth: never suffer his hole catholic church to consent thereto.  
And if Tyndale say the contrary of this/ he must also say that christ hath broken his promise/ and he must also tell us, that we be still bounden yet unto this day●, & ever shallbe bounden still, to the law made by god and his holy apostles at Jerusalem, which they made & sent out in writing/ where they forbade fornication and eating the meat offered up to idols, & all meat of beasts suffocate or strangled, and the eating of any beasts blood. which ordynauns if it now stand, and that we must now believe that it is not now lawful to do any of those things there forbode (as we must in deed if god were not for all that at his liberty still in the governance and teaching of his church, what he will have believed and what he will have done) then is quite gone a good piece of their pleasant preaching of their evangelical liberty. For then where as they preach that every man is at liberty to eat what he list/ they leave no man at liberty to eat a poor ●uddynge.  
But his church is sure enough/ by that they know well that their hole assent is not wrought without the spirit of god assistant in his church. And that themself be his very church they be sure enough/ by that they see him specially present with them by his continual miracles, which fail in all false churches that be fallen out of this. All which false churches this true church of charity Crystes proper badge/ ceaceth not to sollycyte and labour to revoke and receive again into the port of salvation and the haven of heaven: except the devil by their dedely malice, drown them utterly with dreving them down into the depth of indurate heart, thoroughly pierced with they● pestilent heresy.  
And yet I say ferther, that this objection of diverse a●tycles believed by the church in diverse times will not serve the heretics for their defence/ sith that they teach such things for true, as not only all the holy doctors and all the holy saints of every time, but also all the hole church of every time, have ever taught to be false. Or else they must show us some one man at the lest wise that in this fifteen hundred year before their days, hath holden for good and lyefull, that such persons as have vowed chastity to god, may● run out of religion and wed harlots at their liberty.  
Now if Tyndale will take hold of that that I have said/ that god is at his liberty to reveal a thing when he will/ and that he hath now revealed this new article to him and his holy fellows: they must I say then prove us by miracles that they be gods true messengers/ for else why should we believe them.  
If he say that they prove it by scripture, in that they preach his word: I say again the scripture I know for God's word, but them I know not for God's messengers, because they will not he acknown of all God's words/ for they will believe no word of his without writing/ and also his words written they mysconstrue. And therefore concerning the word of god written: the question lieth between us, not upon God's word but upon the right understanding thereof, wherein while all the old holy doctors be quite against them, we say now to Tyndale that of reason we may not believe him. For in these points wherein we vary/ as for ensample that freres may wed nuns: either the scripture is plain and easy to perceive, or dowtuouse and hard to understand. If it be plain & easy: we can not think but that among so many of the old, holy, wise, and well learned doctors/ some one at the lest in all this long while should have been as able to perceive it as Luther and he now so suddenly. And on the tothersyde if he say that in that point the scripture is dark & hard: then may we with reason think that Luther and he and frere Huskyn to, may as well miss understand it now, as all those holy wise well learned saints all this fifteen hundred year. So that yet again we be come to the point, that Tyndale if in his doctrine depending upon th'exposition of scripture he look to be believed, that freres may wed nuns, against the doctrine of all those old holy doctors that in their expositions call it abominable lechery: he must needs do miracles as they did, or else must Luther or frere Huskyn or some one of their fellows at the lest.  
For where he saith in one place of his book against me, that we may require no miracles of them: if he had said, because they can none do, I would have taken it for a final answer, and would have troubled him no more with that troubelouse question. But now because he saith it needeth not/ and would it should seem that the miracles which christ and his apostles did, should serve for the proof of his doctrine: my conscience can not suffer me to let him go so.  
For sith our question is not upon Crystes & his apostles words, which their miracles proved true/ but upon the exposition and understanding that Tyndale and Luther giveth to them/ which expositions all they that god hath ever hath sins the apostles days hitherto by miracles proved to be his true preachers, have plainly taught to be false: Tyndale may not say for shame, but that for his doctrine taught by those expositions, if he will be believed against many preachers proved true by many miracles, he must do miracles to/ or else if we believe him before all them, we be much more than mad specially but if some of his company and fellows in his heresy did some miracles for him, which our lord be thanked he suffereth no false church of heretics to do, but his own catholic church alone.  
And now in such things as god seeth most need, and the heretics most busy to assault his church: there doth he most specially fence in his church with miracles. As in the reverence of images, relics, and pilgrimages, and worshipping of saints, and his holy sacraments, and most of all that holy sacrament of the altar his own blessed body, for which manner of things he hath wrought and daily doth many wonderful miracles/ and the like of those that he wrought in the time of his apostles, to show and make proof that his catholic church is his perpetual apostle, how many nations so ever fall therefro, and how little and small so ever it be left.  
And therefore we say not as Tyndale beareth us in hand, that the troth of god dependeth upon the multitude of men's mouths: but that the catholic church illustrate with the miracles of god, and taught by the spirit of god/ is set upon the high mountain of the stone that is christ/ and therefore can never be hid, but that the miracles which god ever worketh and ever shall work therein, doth and shall make the light of the doctrine shine and show the right way to heaven.  
And these miracles hath god often wrought to the conversion and amendment of jews and heretics/ & often to the confusion and burning up of obstinate jews & heretics, with the beginning of their hell even here in earth.  
Now Tyndale denieth not but that there be and have been such miracles/ but he sayeth that they be done by the devil. But then say I that in his so saying he is worse than ever was the devil. For the devil durst never say so much himself, as did the jews and now Tyndale say.  
But when he saith it/ I say yet again he must show me why there be no miracles among all his false churches of heretics/ or else to call the true miracles of god done in the catholic church of god false illusions of the devil, is a word well able alone to prove himself a devil.  
Now if Tyndale will say that the turks have miracles among them as well as our church: I may deny it him by his own rule, but if he prove it by plain scripture. But now if I grant it him, yet shall it not serve him. For I may prove him by plain scripture that there be neither none such, nor so many done among them as these be that be daily done in Crystes catholic church. For our saviour saith that his own miracles passed all that had been before/ & that yet his apostles and disciples and his faithful believing folk, 
Io●●. 14  should do as great and greater. And we see that in the catholic church god hath done and daily doth for his saints, both while they were here and after their departing hence/ and hath also done and daily doth at diverse images and pilgrimages, as great miracles in confirmation of our faith in that behalf, as ever he did in the time of the apostles. And therefore am I very sure that neither paynims nor turks be able to match our church in miracles/ but that ours as far pass all theirs if they have any, as ever the miracles of Moses passed the witchcraft of the egypcyan jugglers. And of this am I as sure/ as that the false churches of heretics do no miracles at all.  
Further more as for miracles or marvels done among the Turks or Saracenis, sith Tyndale is not yet as far as I know circumcised, nor professyth not himself a Saracene, nor I know him not very surely for a Turk but for an heretic: I shall not greatly need to dispute with him upon miracles done among the Machometanies/ but (which were as good as to do that he doth) let him go cyrcumcyse himself, and then come again and speak for Machomete and his men, and I shall answer him further for their miracles. But in the mean time while I know him but for an heretic: it is enough to tell him that among all the false churches of false heretics there be no miracles at all. But god worketh his miracles in his true church, to show his true church, that is to wit his true apostle. And then his true preacher known/ that is sufficient for all his preaching, and to prove that he doth teach & expone the scripture after the right understing taught and inspired by the spirit of god, sent to dwell with his church for ever, according to Crystes promise/ and therefore shall not need n● particular miracles upon article, for christ used not that himself.  
And thus in this mine answer to his one chapter, which he so gaily flourished, that he had went the glittering thereof would have made every man's yies so adased, that no man should have spied his falsehood and founden out the troth: I have is such wise confounded him and all his hole doctrine utterly/ that if I never would write one word more, yet should he never against this alone defend his devilish doctrine while he liveth, and take all the devils in hell to help him.    

whither the apostles left aught unwriten, that is of necessity to be believed.  
WE be come now good christian reader unto that matter, which is undoubtedly one of the most special points that are in debate between these heretics and us. For upon this question hangeth all their whole hold, in the destruction of many holy things believed and observed in Crystes catholic church.  
For if we speak of fasting the lent or other holy vygiles: they say we find it not in scripture. If we speak of keeping the holy day: the say the scripture appointeth none. jew speak of worshipping the sacrament of the altar: they say it is not commanded in scripture/ and so of every good thing almost in like wise. For in this point they end not. It serveth them but for a step forward. For after time that they have said this ones, that every necessary thing is written/ all be it that they say therein false and are never able to prove their saying true as ye shall see anon: yet when they be confuted and concluded openly therein, they dissimule shamefully their confusion/ & making then as though their part were proved, they run on farther & will here no more thereof/ but deny also the things that be well and plainly written in holy writ in deed.  
As for ensample when we say that confirmation, presthed, and matrimony, be holy sacraments: Tyndale saith nay/ for he saith it is not written in scripture. we show him plain scriptures for them, of grace given in them by the imposition of the hands by the words of saint Poule/ and Tyndale laugheth his words to scorn, saying it was but a manner of the country, as a man layeth his hand upon a boy's head when he calleth him good son. And as for matrimony/ he saith that saint Poule mente not in such wise/ and that he can make as good a sacrament of salt, of mustered seed, of a kaye, or of a net.  
So that as I say believe them once in this, that we be bounden to believe nothing but the only scripture/ and take away the credence ●●o● the catholic church, as though that god leaving his only scripture therein, had broken his promise and taken his spirit therefrom: the very scripture it self shall serve every foolish heretic for a babble.  
Now for as much therefore as the matter of this chapter, wherein Tyndale as he did in the chapter last before in which I have plainly confounded him, gooth about again to take away the credence of Crystes catholic church/ which once fallen away, the credence & the feute of scripture and all gooeth with it (For both would every sect of heretics wrest it unto their own errors/ and as saint austin saith, save for the church we know not the holy scripture of god fr●● unholy writing of man): I require the reader to consider well what he readeth, and pass it not over suddenly, but advise it sadly/ and I doubt not then but he shall plainly see that Tyndale shall in this chapter as solemnly as he setteth forth, take a shameful fall. Here now therefore what he sayeth.  

Tyndale.  
But did not the apostles teach ●●ght by mouth that they wrote not. I answer, because that many taught one thing, and every man the same in diverse places and unto diverse people, and confyrned every sermon with a sundry miracle: therefore christ and his apostles preached an hundred thousand sermons, and did as many miracles/ which had been superfluous to have been all written.   

More.  
Now consider good reader that Tyndales purpose is, to prove us that the apostles wrote all that was of necessity to be done or to be believed. And remember that as yet he doth but tell us that they did so, and proveth it not yet/ but he will anon full worshyppefully. But in the mean way mark me this first, that he saith that christ and his apostles did confirm every sermone with a sundry miracle. For till he prove me that by scripture/ I deny it plainly. For sith neither scripture teacheth it, nor the catholic church preacheth it, nor any reason proveth it: I may well and boldly deny it, and so I do.  
For I see well his falsed for which he feigneth it. He seeth miracles wrought by god plenteously in his church, and that thereby his church and the faith thereof is confirmed/ and therefore to bring at the lestewyse some part thereof in question, he would say that we find not special miracles done for every point. But I say no more did the apostles neither, nor Tyndale shall never prove it. For if he will prove me that/ he must prove me true, not only the thing that himself saith, which is more than ever he shall prove true/ that is to wit that they proved every sermon with a sundry miracle/ but also that either they never preached but one article in one sermone. Or if they preached many/ he must then prove me two things/ one, that they confirmed that sermon with as many miracles as they preached points/ another that they showed the people that the miracles which they then did, was so many miracles for so many points/ for else might all those miracles be done for the proof of one of those points, and all the remanant unproved. For if Tyndale will say that thing needed not for as much as any one miracle sufficed to prove them all, sith it proved him a true preacher: then shall Tyndale say ●o the thing that I would have him say/ for then himself proveth that it needed not that they should prove every sermone with a several miracle made among one people/ nor peradventure any one sermone neither otherwise than as by miracles showed at other occasions beside their sermons, they proved themself holy men and gods messengers. For we find many miracles done by them at such times as they were not making of sermons. And yet when they did them in Crystes name/ we find not always that they added a special article of our faith, which specyaltye they would have by that miracle confirmed.  
And thus ye see that h●re he affirmeth one thing that he shall never prove/ which thing yet I would not vouch safe to speak of, saving that he doth it of an evil purpose. For his master Martyne Luther when Erasmus laid against him for man's fire will the doctrine of the old holy saints, whose faith was approved by miracles: laid against him again, that though they did miracles, Erasmus yet could not prove that any of them did a miracle specially for that article and therefore he would have that article seem unproved as for any miracle. And this way taketh Tyndale now for the self same ●●t●nt/ & therefore feigneth that the apostles confirmed every sermone with a sundry miracle. But I doubt not but that if we should bid Tyndale here or Luther himself, prove us every article of his faith which he would we should ween were the faith that the apostles preached/ if we should I say did them prove us, that the apostles conf●●med every article thereof by a sundry miracle: they should seek in scripture till their eyen were ●●●ete they ●●●●de it.  
Moreover Tyndales words fight together, and one 〈◊〉 can not agree with an other. For if these words ●● true that they proved every sermon with a sundry miracle/ 〈…〉 false that he saith here also, that is to wit of ●●racles, 〈…〉 be written as needeth.  
〈…〉 that Tyndale saith, that thapo●●le● 〈◊〉 〈…〉 miracle: it followeth that every necessary point that they preached, they did prove by miracle. Then ferther if every necessary point that they preached they proved by miracle, because it was needful that it should be, for credence to be given to that point for our soul's health: it was needful then for the conservation of the same credence, if the credence could not be kept without writing, that of every such necessary point of faith and necessary doctrine of theirs, without which believed we can not be saved/ there were one miracle written at the lest. But there is not of every such article one miracle written: ergo it is not true that Tyndale goth about to prove, that the miracles as many be written as need/ and that every necessary thing is written. And verily if every thing that we should necessarily believe, had been th'intent of god to have it put in writing/ and that it had been also necessary that every point were proved by one miracle/ and not sufficient that the preachers were proved by miracles themself, & thereby their doctrine to be believed: it were very probable then, both that the writers would have written some things much more open and plain than they ●aue done/ and also that of every necessary point of faith, they would have written one miracle at the lest. But now sith god intended not to give his new law by books, but specially by the necessary points thereof written in men's hearts/ whereof himself would be the special inward master: he hath provided that scripture to serve for part, but not to serve alone for all. And sith such miracles as be written therein, suffice to prove the apostles gods true preachers/ and therefore needed not miracles to be wryten●for every point of their preaching: no more needed there to be miracles done for every point of their prea●●●ge.  
And for farther proof thereof/ hue many things, preached the apostles by their pistles, with which we read not that they sent by the messengere for every point a miracle.  
And thus good readers here ye see first that this poyn● of Tyndales preaching must be better proved/ which point thus reproved, answereth and reproveth clearly dy●●●● other places of his book hereafter. But yet is i● 〈◊〉 ●o ●e considered & weighed in his words that he saith, 〈…〉 substance in general of everything ●●●●ssary to 〈◊〉 soul's hesth, both of what we ought to believe, and what we ought to do/ 〈◊〉 written. So that what so ever we ought to believe or do, that same is written expressly/ or drawn of that which is written.   

More.  
In these words though I find lack of troth/ yet I somewhat allow his wit/ as our saviour said by the wicked bailie, 
Lucae. 15  which though he played the false shrew for his master/ provided yet wilily somewhat for himself. And so playeth Tyndale here. For now that he plainly perceiveth that the doctrine is plainly false, which his master Luther & himself to, have taught so plainly between them all this while/ that is to wit that there is no necessary troth to be believed, but if it be proved by plain & evident scripture: now cometh Tyndale and seeth that they shall be put to flight and fain to run away/ and therefore wilily provideth a starting hole, stepping from plain and evident scripture their old special plain evident words, unto dark debatable terms of general pith and substance, and of drawing out and deducynges and depending upon scripture/ upon every which word he may make an argument when it cometh to the point.  
But yet if he would honestly stand to his tacling in this point, and give us the like liberty that himself will take/ and neither use false deductions of his own, nor refu●e our deductions if we deduce them well: we would never find fault in this point. But now let us deduce a thing never so straight, it can not be allowed. Let himself draw it never so far a wry/ yet will he swear that it is right enough. I shall give you for the more clearness one ensample of either side. 
Matthei 2●  we say that sith our saviour hath himself promised in the gospel, that himself and his holy spirit shall be with his church all days unto the end of the world: it followeth say we thereof, that his church shall never fail as long as ●he world lasteth. 
Iohn. 16  And because our saviour saith in lyke●●●e, that his holy spirit ever abiding with his church, shall teach his church all things, and lead them into every troth, and put them in remembrance of all that he himself had or would say unto them: we deduce thereupon that he will not suffer his church fall in to the erroneous belief of any damnable untruth/ but lead them into the troth that is the contrary of that untruth. And sith 〈…〉 the holy g●●●● shall write unto you all things, nor shall write you all troth/ but shall lead you into all troth: we deduce thereupon that the belief where into the spirit of god leadeth us and planteth it in our heart, is as good and as sure to salvation of our souls without any writing at all, as if it were written in parchment with golden letters and Crystes own hand.  
Here have I showed you a sample of our deductions/ which I trust every man may see that we draw it not far of, but that the scripture well and clearly maintaineth our deducing thereof. And the sample also that I show you serveth much for our matter against Tyndale, that contendeth and laboureth to prove that we be bound to believe nothing but God's promises/ and here he seeth that god promised not to put all thing in writing, but that the holy ghost should teach us by leading us into every troth.  
Now shall I show you a sample of Tyndales deduction upon scripture, which as god would he bringeth forth himself in this same present chapter, to the intent that ye should not lack a show/ whereby ye shall see how plainly he proveth his holy doctrine by the holy scripture.  
The scripture sayeth, love thy neighbour as thyself. Now upon this text deduceth Tyndale, that women may christian and consecrate the body of christ and say mass to. How other men will allow this deduction I can not tell. But lest they that like it not, might hap to ween that he saith it not: I shall rehearse you his own very words.   

Tyndale.  
They will happily demand where it is written that women should baptize. verily in this commandment, love thy neighbour as thyself/ it is written that they may and aught to minister not only baptism, but all other sacraments also in time of need, if they be so necessary as they preach them.   

More.  
Lo sir here ye see that if the mass be so necessary as the church teacheth/ which saith and hath ordained that it is necessary to be said unto the parish at the le●●e wise every sunday: if the pressed be not at home, than some good wife may for a need step to the altar and say mass in his stead/ because the scripture saith, l●ue thy neighbour as thyself.  
what is there that these folk may not prove by sc●●pture/ if they may deduce it thus and have their deduccy●● allowed. Or a made as good deduction as this, and y●●●●● no thank. For he thought that because of the commandment, 
1. Parasip. 13.  thou shalt honour thy lord god/ he might & was bounden to set his hand unto staying and keeping up of the arch of the testament that was about to fall. But god taught other men by that man's sudden death/ that he was to malapert to meddle with that kind of God's honour that was not meet for him. And Tindale because a woman must love her neighbour as herself: will have her not touch the arch but the blessed body of god, and bodily consecrated it herself/ which neither the blessed mother of Crist, nor the highest angel in heaven, durst ever psume to think, because god had not appointed them to that office. Such deductions upon scripture made they of likelihood that took upon them in the old testament more than their part came to/ as Chore and Abyron, and the king Ozias, 
Numeri. 16. 2. Parasip. 2●.  that would needs play the pressed and incense god himself/ for which honourable seruyce● our lord sent him shame and sorrow.  
Now if Tyndale ask me why a woman may christian & not consecrated sith both be sacraments: I can answer him the comen answer, that though both be necessary/ yet both be not like great nor like necessary. For both is there greater reverence to be had to the sacrament of Cristes' body, then to the sacrament of baptism, and yet is baptism of more necessity than the t'other, sith that ●or fault of baptism salvation faileth and not forfaute of housel. But as for my part I would give him none answer to that question, other than the ordinance of god's spirit/ which I see that god hath taught his church, and else would he not suffer them to believe that it were well done, whereof no man is bound to give a precise cause. But it were over much boldness to think that we could precisely tell that cause of every thing that it pleaseth god to devise/ though Tyndale and his spiritual sort will not oba● gods bidding, till themself as he saith have ensearched & founden the very full cause why.  
It is to me for all Tyndales deduction a greater question yet, saving for the custom of Cristes' catholic church why a woman may christian, then why she may not consecrated. For surely sith god sent out only men to baptize: I would set no woman thereto for any need, no more then to be a confessor, and ●●●oyle men of their synnies for ned●/ saving that I see ye●one ever 〈…〉 where in Christ's ho●e church, and the consent of holy saints approving and allowing the same. And in consecrating never woman did it/ nor good man believed that any woman might do it. which belief if it were false: I doubt not but the spirit of god teaching his church, would ere this have led his church into the contrary truth according to Crystes promise.  
But now as I say ye see by Tyndales ensample, for what intent and purpose he putteth in his deducing & drawing of articles of the faith out of the scripture/ wherein he may as well believe what he will and take what he list, not of the tradition of Crystes catholic church, but of the tradition of Martyne Luther's leman/ as frame himself a faith by a deduction of scripture deduced in such a fashion.  
In the same manner he draweth out of scripture in his book of obedience, and in this book also, that a frere may mary a nun by the authority of saint Poule. For being asked where he findeth it in scripture/ he saith it is written in these words to Timothe, 
1. Timoth. 3  a bishop must be unreprovable and the husband of one wife. And in the words of saint Poule, 
1. Timoth. 4.  there shall come false prophets that shall forbid marriage. And in this text also, 
1. Corinth. 7.  it is better to may then to burn.  
Is not this conclusion trow ye well deduced? In the first because saint Poule did put in this word one, to forbid and exclude any more than one: Tyndale deduceth that a bishop must needs have one/ and thereby maketh saint Poule false in another place, where he counseleth & wysshyth that he should rather have none.  
In the second text because saint Poule condemneth them that would say, it were not lawful for any man to marry: Tyndale deduceth that every may marry, though himself have made unto god a contrary promise before/ & might as well deduce that no man may be forbade to marry, though he have a wife all ready. For the fr●re is as well and as clearly forbode to marry by the scriptures, that forbiddeth him the breach of his vow: as is the man foreboden to marry that hath a wife all ready.  
And upon the third text, because saint Poule saith that it is better to marry than to burn: Tyndale deduceth that it is better for a frere to mary, then to forbear lechery/ & considereth not that when he breaketh his vow and weddeth an harlot, than he burneth both body and soul, first heat in fire of foul filthy lust, and after this world in everlasting fire of hell. Is not this conclusion worshipfully deduced upon scripture? It is marvel that he deduceth it not rather upon the text that he speaketh of here: Love thy neighbour as thyself/ and upon this text also: Do to another as thou wouldest be done to thyself. These have yet some better colour for Luther and his leman/ and I doubt not but he will find them at last, and say that his marriage is grounded there, because he loveth her with such a lewd lousy love, as the lewd lousy lover in lechery loveth himself/ and is so ryghtuousely disposed, that he will never desire that she shall lie with him, but when he is even as well content that himself shall lie with her. This that we say now in sport/ he will say ones in earnest I warrant you.  
Now for the declaration of his purpose, in drawing & deducing of tharticle of their faithless faith out of scripture of god, these ensamples suffice/ and therefore I shall proceed farther.  
Now next he cometh to the purpose, to prove you that every necessary thing that we be bounden either to believe or to do● is written in scripture. And now hark I pray you how properly the good man proveth it. These are his words.   

Tyndale.  
For if that I were bounden to do or believe under pain of loss of my soul, any thing that were not written nor depended of that which is written: what ●olpe me the scripture that is written.   

More.  
Lo here is his first argument that he setteth forth in the fore front of the field, as a special strong band. which argument who so w●ll aduy●e and consider: if himself have wit, shall plainly say that it cometh out of a mad mann●s mouth.  
For by this ●●afon till the gospels were written, every man myght● have refused all the doctrine of christ in every point that was not written in the scripture before his day, nor drawn out thereof by a little straighter line than Luther draweth his. And when christ taught them the counsel of virginity and ●any other wholesome things above the perfection of their old law: they might have said; show me t●ys in writing. And then if he had answered that him self being such as he was, and for such testified by writing, and by the word of his father, and by his own wondrous works, owed to be believed of them in every thing upon pain of the loss of their souls: they might have said again as Tyndale saith now/ if we be bound upon the pain of loss of our souls to believe any thing that is not written nor dependeth of that which is written, what holp us the scripture that is written? This tale of Tyndales might they have told unto christ himself, against the sacrament of baptism & the sacrament of the altar to.  

1. Corinth. 11.  Now when saint Poule in his pistle to the Corynthyes said, I will order the remanant when I come myself: they should by Tyndales reason have sent him his pistle again and say/ If we shall be bounden to do any thing unwritten, what availeth us all that ever thou writest?  
But there needeth no places of scripture to this blasphemous folly of Tindale spoken against the scripture/ because god hath taught & left some part of his pleasure without scripture. For if a man write certain rules to his household servants, and yet give them certain beside by his own mouth, such as peradventure should need no warning in writing, because the continual use and excercise of them could not suffer them to b● forgotten (in which kind of commandments be the blessed sacraments so daily used in Crystes church, that forgotten they can not be, nor left they shall not be for all the business that these heretics the devils doctors can make) if this lords servants were so wise to learn this lesson of Tyndale and say, nay sir and ye leave these things unwritten then a straw for all that ye have written: might not the master say that his men were a sort of malapert foolish knaves. And this is as ye see Tyndales first reason, wherewith he full properly proveth us that the apostles wrote al● together that ever we should be bounden to believe. which reason ye see yourself is not worth one wysshe/ but r●●her a plain ●nreasonable blasphemy, foolishly spoken against the ●criptu●● of god/ which he saith serveth for nought if god byn●● us to believe any word of his bysy●e.  
Now let us proceed to the second/ why●● is I promise you very second, fo● any fruit that ye shall fyn●● therein. These are his worde●.   

Tyndale.  
In as much as christ and all his apostles warned us, that false prophets should come with false miracles, even to deceive the elects if it were possible: wherewith should the true preacher confound the false, except he brought true miracles to confound the false, or else authentic scripture of full authority all ready among the people.   

More.  
great cause have we to give thank to god/ whose goodness wresteth the tongues of heretics and maketh them there speak most against themself, where they ween to speak for themself the best, as he serveth Tyndale here. For these be the words that I would have wished him to say. For where he meaneth that all must be written because that else there were nothing that could confound false prophets that should come and show false miracles, except the true preachers should show true miracles against them: I answer to Tyndale two things. The first is that it is plain false that Tyndale taketh for a plain truth/ that is to wit that the true preachers could have no thing to confound the false prophets that should come with false miracles, but if all the troth were written in scripture autentyque among the people. And that if it so were/ then the true preachers had enough without true miracles to confound the false prophets bringing false miracles. The second thing that I answer him with is this/ that if it were true that he sayeth, that without miracles nothing would sufficiently serve in such case, except that every necessary thing were written in auten, +tyque scripture: yet sith himself confesseth that true miracles might in such case sufficiently serve the true precheour, and confound the false, and save the faith up right/ and that he can not say but that god is able to do them when so ever he list, and will never leave his church destitute of help and comfort necessary, and therefore in such necessity will not fail to do them: Tyndale must needs agree (be he never so loath to come to it) that god hath no necessity for avoiding of such apparel, to provide that his church should have every necessary thing delivered unto them, and ever more kept with them in authentic scripture/ while himself by his promise would ever dwell with them, and had for the proof of their faith against false prophets and their false miracles, the mighty mean of true miracles, and out of measure greater in his own hand. which mean of miracles for the true proof of his word among mortal men/ is and hath been and ever shall be, the final peremptory stop against all contradiction.  
This second answer is open and plain enough in it self. And for as much as the first appeareth not peradventure so fully plain at the first sight/ I shall make it clearer. when Tyndale saith that except all were written that we be bounden to believe or to do, there were else nothing save miracles to confound false prophets that should come with false miracles: ye perceive well that he prosupposeth that if every such thing be written in authentic scripture, then without miracles the matter is save enough/ and the true preachers able enough to confound the false by the scripture alone. For but if he say so, he saith no more for the alleging of scripture then for the alleging of the faith without scripture.  
Now Tyndale telling us thus/ we must first wit of him which false prophets he meaneth, paynims, Turks, or heretics. If he mean Panynyms or Turks, them goeth he very far wide/ for the true preachers can not confound them with our authentic scripture/ for it is not authentic among them, but they say that it is false. If he mean heretics, he goth almost as far wide/ for they will also when they list deny for holy scripture any part of holy scripture that proveth against their purpose/ as they deny the book of Maccabees, because it proveth purgatory and prayers for them that are deed/ and deny the pistle of saint jamies, because it reproveth a bare faith without good works.  
Now if they admit the scripture for scripture, yet are ye never the near/ for they will deny the true sense thereof, and obstinately defend a false/ s● that the true preacher and that false prophet shall be still as far asunder, as if they denied the very scripture it self.  
Now when he speaketh of confounding them: we must wit of him what he meaneth by confoundyng them. whether he mean that the true preacher shall make the false prophet ashamed/ or that he shall make the people perceive their doctrine for false. As for making the false prophets ashamed: ye see yourself they be so shameless that it will not be, for ye see they wed nuns openly. And when they be not ashamed to look folk in the face, after that shameful sacrilege and abominable bichery: whereof will they be ashamed? Now if he mean that the true preacher shall by thautenque writing, make the people perceive the false prophet false: I say that shall he not do by scripture any thing more largely, than he shall do the same by the word of god unwritten/ which word Tyndale would have no man by leave. For the perceiving whereof, suppose me now that the true preacher and the false prophet came together to dispute the troth in a great audience of people, upon some such article as the false prophet would teach against the comen faith of the catholic church. As let me see for ensample/ whether freres may wed nuns. Tut nay, that can serve for no sample, it is to clear and to far undysputable for any false prophet to find any reasoning therein/ as the thing which never sith the world was pepled, could have founden any man to think it lawful, till now/ nor yet now neythe findeth any that so thinketh, as many wretches as so saith and so doth/ nor it were not possible for the false prophet to find any colour therein, but such as all the world would wonder at/ except such beasts as lust to seyt so for hatred and despite of honesty. But let us take therefore for ensample, some such heresy as hath been holden & disputed of old. And what rather then one of the greatest? that is to wit that heresy that Arrius held and his great company, that our saviour christ was not one equal god with his father.  
Suppose me therefore I say that some false prophet were so devilish as to preach that point again/ and that he had by false preaching won unto him (as Arrius had in his time) much people all ready of every state and degree/ and that he should then come in an open audience of a main multitude, to dispute with any true preacher that would offer himself to defend in that point the part and belief of the catholic church. Now when the true preacher and the false prophet were comen together, and fallen in dispicions in two pulpits on high that all the people might hear them/ and that the tone alleged diverse texts of scripture for the troth, & the t'other as many for the false part, and each of them gloze against gloze/ & when the true preacher would lay thereto the consent of all the old douctours, & of all the catholic church of christ this fifteen hundred year, the false prophet would say again as the false prophet Luther sayeth himself, I set not by Hyerome, I set not by austin, I care not for an hundred Gregory's, I not for a thousand Cyprianes, I lay for me the plain word of god. And for the catholic church that thou callest the church of christ, it is but a multitude of mortale men, whom if I should believe for the multitude, I must rather by leave the paynims or the Machometanies, which be many more. And thy saints whom thou layest for the be deed/ but the word of god that I lay for me, liveth and shall live for ever. And the church of christ is unknown to men, but it is well known to god/ out of whose hand no man can take them as our saviour saith, but though they sleep now and rest in hope as the scripture saith, my flesh shall rest in hope/ they shall yet in the day of the lord awake at the blast of the trump, & ever after live with the lord in his reign. And of these I doubt not was that holy man Arrius & many another holy man of his sect.  
Now if against all this, the true preacher fall in farther dispicions again/ as well about his first question as about the church, with diverse other that incydently fall in debate between them/ and then for the final end & playneste proof conclude and rest upon the scripture, and say that he hath proved his part well thereby, and that his texts be clear, and the texts of the other part are falsely wrested, and his own answers effectual, and the tothers but sophistical/ and then the false prophet for himself again say, that he joyeth much that their disputation is come to so good a point/ for he knoweth well that he hath alleged the scriptures right, and construed them in their true sense, and that his adversary is adversary of the plain open troth, and preacheth and teacheth again his own conscience, and thereby sinneth against the holy ghost, which shall never be forgiven in this world nor in the world to come/ for whose irremyssyble sin himself is full sorry, and exhort him to remember the false prophet Balam, and beware by time, lest he come to like end/ and then say that he is yet glad again on other side, & highly thanketh the lord, that hath by his true teachyng● the●e opened the yi●s of the people about them, that they now cle●ely see the light of troth/ which hath now put away the darkness of their ignorance, wherein the blind leders the false popish preachers have led them wrong all this while before/ the error of whom he doubteth not but that god hath by him made them now so plainly to perceive, that he well dare and so doth make them all his judges, whether of them both hath defended his part better/ and therefore prayeth them to speak and show their minds therein/ for the apostle saith while other speak, the congregation must judge/ and every man (saith Luther) for his own soul believeth or believeth not, upon his own apparel/ & therefore upon his own belief what he should believe and what not, must needs be judge himself: now good readers when they thus have spoken both/ think ye by your troth that the people unlearned of their audience, shallbe meetly to discern and judge whither of them hath spoken better, and whither part is between than better proved by scripture? Are not the people well likely with such doubtful dispicions to be rather led out of the troth, than well confirmed in it? namely sith many of them shallbe corrupted in corners, & drawn in to that false faith before, as the guise of heretics is.  
But now how much apparel were there more, if this false prophet should as Tyndale putteth his case, come forth with false miracles to/ and in the end of his disputation and his holy exhortation thereupon, say farther to the people thus: Dear brethren in the love of the lord the father & his only begotten son our saviour christ, that came into this wretched world to show it ensample of meekness, and not to make himself as great a god as his father, as the popish preachers preach unto you/ which thereby make you believe that our master christ passed in pride the proud angel Lucifer, that for the same pride was deprived of heaven and thrown in to hell, where he reigneth as prince upon all the sons of pride: I am come as ye see sent by the blessed spirit of the lord, that hath prayed for you with sighs unspeakable, that ye might be delivered from this error, that this false preacher here & I have disputed upon in your presence/ where as you see & I am sure perceive full well, that I have with the word of god overcome him utterly though he babble on still. But yet because the troth standeth not in words but in virtue and power of deed: it pleaseth god that for the strengthing of week consciences, I shall show you more proof of the glory of god. For sith this evil man miss led with an evil spirit, would lead you still in a wrong way, and make you miss understand the scripture/ saying that I take it wrong & teach you false, where as I made yourself judges of the matter: I shall now call god to judge it himself in your sight, by some show of his special presence and power. And then after this spoken/ should call up unto him some well known blind man, and in the sight of all the people suddenly make him se. what saith Tyndale to this? here is his own case. were the autentyque scripture in this case likely to stay the people? surely me seemeth nay. For though the scripture be true in it self: yet sith it is not so plain b●t that many great difficulties arise thereupon/ in which though he, which upon the study thereof hath bystowed many years, may perceive the true part from the false: yet unto the unlearned it shallbe likely full oft, that in such dispicions the false part may seem treweste. And then how much more if he see in his own sight miracles set thereto.  
But now say I that on the other side the word of god unwritten may stay all to g●ther. For I say that the truth of that article taught and believed as the church without any doubt or question believeth/ may be so surely graven in man's heart, that though he never have red nor heard neither any scripture in that point: yet presupposing it for an undoubted troth, he shall set at nought all the false wrested scripture of the f●lse prophet, and all his false miracles to/ and shall ever construe the scripture by the known article of the catholic faith, which was taught and believed before those texts of scripture were written, and hath yet the same troth now that it had then, not withstanding all the texts that seem to say the contrary. And by this faith in the word of god unwritten in their books/ and yet written in their souls: did there many martyrs stand and shed their blood in witness of the troth thereof, that never read nor heard the scripture in their days/ and would in the same word unwritten, with god's grace have wythstanden false miracles to, which had yet been undoubtedly the sorest pinch, saving for the more and more marvelous miracles that themself saw or believed done on the other side for the troth.  
But I say therefore as I have often said before, that as for miracles he hath so specially kept for the profe● of the troth, that all the miracles which the paynims or other infidels have done except heretics/ he hath ever made his true preachers to do greater miracles against them, & by the greater miracles to destroy them/ as he did in Moses and in Heliseus, & in his holy apostles, & other holy saints after them. But as for heretics, god hath never suffered them to do any miracles at all/ because he would have by the mark of miracles his very true church known from all the false churches of heretics. Nor never shall he suffer them to do any, till the great archeheretyke Antycryste come himself/ which as help me god I fear be very near his time, and that Luther is his very fore gore & his baptist, to make ready his way in the desert of this wretched world/ and Tindale, frere Huskyn, and Swynglius, his very false prophets to preach for him. But when he shall come him self and work wonders, to pervert (if it might be) the every chosen to: yet shall he not work miracles alone, but god shall for his church in miracles far pass him/ for anger whereof he shall kill them and trust all in strength of sword. And because he shall have so many ways to turn the people wrong: god shall not suffer the wretch long, but shall shorten his days/ and putting strength and miracle together, shall kill him with the spirit or blast of his holy mouth. And thus good readers ye plainly now perceive that sith the scripture alone against heretics and miracles may not sufficiently serve to unlearned people, otherwise then may the belief without the scripture/ and also that heretics shall do no miracles till antichrist come/ and yet then shall have also greater miracles wrought against him, and that his time shallbe but short, and himself finally by miracle destroyed and killed: ye see proved plainly, the Tyndales second reason with which he would prove that the apostles left no necessary thing unwriten, hath in it no reason at all.   

Tyndale.  
Some man would ask, how did god continue his generation from Adam to Noah, and from No to Abraam, and so to Moses without writing but with teaching fro mouth to mouth. I answer first that there was no scripture in the world all the while/ that shall they prove when our lady hath a new son.   

More.  
Tyndale saith that some man would ask this question. But he knoweth well enough that I lay this against him in my dialogue, because he so precisely saith that nothing may be certainly known to be believed but by scripture. And now he answereth me that our lady shall have a new son, ere I can prove that there was not scripture from the beginning. He weigheth his words wisely, when he saith that our lady shall have a new son first/ which he might as well say by every woman that is passed this world, saving that our lady never had a new son bysyde our saviour Criste, is none article of his false faith, as himself plainly confesseth/ because it is not plainly written in scripture.  
But is not this a proper answer now? where as against his false ground that there can be no true faith but if it be written in scripture, I objected against him the faith of many good faithful men/ in whose days we can not prove that their faith was written, & yet we doubt not but that they were good & faithful: he saith I can not prove that they had no scripture. If he will say (as he doth) that they could have no good and sure faith without scripture/ and will also confess (as he doth) that they had good and sure faith: he must himself prove that they had scripture/ and not tell me that our lady shall have a new son ere I prove that they had no scripture. For it is enough for me, that our lady shall have two new sons ere Tindale prove that some of those faithful folk in the first or second generation, had any writing at all/ and that our lady shall have five new sons, ere Tyndale prove that the faithful people had before Moses' days and scripture such as Tyndale must mean, but if he go about to beguile us with sophistical equyvocation. For our matter is not of scripture, as it is taken for bare writing, such as every scryveners' boy writeth in his masters shop/ but as it signifieth such holy writing as god causeth to be written & bindeth folk to believe, upon the apparel of their soul health. And then I say yet again that it is enough for me that our lady shall have fyfcene new sons, ere Tyndale be able to prove me that some of those whom I allege & he confesseth for faithful folk, had any such scripture at all.  
And Tyndale feeling full well that this point prykketh him, shrinketh hither and thither thereat, and seeketh many shifts. And for all the shifts that he findeth here, because they all satisfy not himself: he is fain afterwards in his answer to my dialogue, to seek up some new/ & saith that in noah's days when the flood came, there were no more left that believed right but those that were saved in the ship. In which place he jesteth upon that vertuose cunning man Nicholas de lira, saying Lira delirat. But it is more easy for Tyndale to make a mokke upon his name/ than to obtain his virtue and learning. But what winneth Tyndale by that answer there? if he said true/ yet were he never the near. For if the hole world were at that time fallen from the faith save those few: yet were it for my purpose sufficient that the true faith had first from god to man, and so forth fro man to man, com● by mouth without scripture unto those few/ though all the remanant that had herd thereof had then been fallen fro the belief thereof, except only those few/ as all the known nations of the world that hath herd of Crystes faith and holy scripture to, be now fallen from both twain, save only these few that yet remain. And of them, some fall from the faith and from theffect of scripture by false interpretation/ as they that fall fro the sacraments, & that so conster the scripture, that they would make it say that freres may wed nuns. Of both which sorts if there went so many away that the remanant which were left were as few as were taken into noah's ship: yet should always those few be the very church of god upon earth because of the right belief, all though that of those few some were nought of living. And among them should there miracles of god continue, to show the presence of god, and strength them in the faith, & make his church known/ that such as are out, may find the way to it to come in if they will/ as he ceaced not to walk with the jews by miracles all though there were many nought, till he quite forsook them/ which by his promise he shall never do Crystes catholic church.   

Tyndale.  
God taught Adam greater things then to writ.   

More.  
If he mean of spiritual revelations, it maketh little to the purpose/ if of worldly things, I think well he taught him things of greater necessity, as peradventure tillage of the ●●●●●de. But as for writing, I ween as long as he lived, was founden yet long after Adam's days. For though Adam had as g●●at a wit as any man hath had synnies: yet he found not out every thing that many a more mean wit hath founden synnies/ except Tyndale tell us that Adam prented books, and made glasses, and shot gonnes to.   

Tyndale.  
And that there was writing in the world long ere Abraam, ye and ere Noah, do stories testify.   

More.  
Full well. But there is none of those stories any thing sybbe to saint Iohnns gospel. He findeth not in them: Qu● vidit testimonium perhibuit/ nor, verum est testimonium eius.  
There were stories, which as saint austin saith, wrote of things done thousands of years before the world was made. And though it were proved as it is not, that there were writing from the beginning: yet as I said before, it would not prove that there was holy scripture that time/ which is the only writing that must be proved, or else all that he proveth is as good unproved.   

Tyndale.  
Not withstanding though there had been no writing: the preachers were ever prophets glorious in doing miracles, wherewith they confirmed their preaching.   

More.  
This is right well said and very largely/ and lacketh nothing now, but even to be as well and largely proved. which when he shall so largely prove me by plain scripture (without which by Luther's own rule, Luther's own scholar may not look to be believed) he shall have much a do I trow. For he saith that by all this time which was the space of so many hundred years, the preachers were ever prophets and glorious in doing of miracls, wherewith they confirmed their preaching. verily Noah we find that he confirmed his preaching with miracle, that was with the flood that drowned the whole world. But else in that age from Adam to his day/ what miracles findeth Tyndale done by the preachers? Now from Noah to Abraam, how many miracles findeth he done by the preachers. Nor from Abraam to Moses neither, he findeth not very many/ so that it will I ween be very hard for him to prove, that the preachers did alway prove all that while their preaching by miracles.  
But I am very glad to hear him say so/ and am●●te●ts to discharge him of the proof, and agree that he sayeth troth. And then say I that sith himself agreeth that for the proof of the preachers doctrine, preaching all one thing down fro generation to generation by the space of so many hundred years, holy preachers and miracles were so necessary, that for the necessity thereof he presumeth that it was so: it is reason that he agree also, that by this hole time of fifteen hundred years of Crystes church, holy preachers with miracles have been as necessary. And then sith he must also grant that god hath had as much cure of the church of his son, as he had of any church before: he must grant that of each thing necessary god hath as well provided for it, as ever he did for any. whereof it followeth that sith holy preachers and miracles were alway so necessary in the other, that god alway provided them so plenteously, that they never lacked: he hath in like wise all this while provided, that in his own church holy preachers and miracles have also continued and have never lacked. And then followeth further, that sith in all this while there hath never been in any church of heretics (as many as have been of them) neither saint nor miracle/ but both twain ever plenteously continued in this only church, which is the comen known catholic church of christ: thereupon followeth it finally, that only it is the true church of god/ and that all the other be false churches of the devil.  
Now if Tyndale will say that it is now not like/ for there is no cause neither of holy preachers nor miracles, because we have the scriptures/ as Abraam said unto the rich glutton that lay in hell and would have Lazarus sent into his father's house to give his brethren warning, 
Lucae. 1●  they have all ready Moses and the prophets/ and if they believe not them, no more will they believe one that were come hence neither: this will not serve Tyndale. For they were not excusable which then had the scriptures, considering that the scripture had been and yet every age were well testified with miracles, in that the prophets and preachers thereof, and the places where it was preached and occupied in God's service, were by god illustrate and set out with miracles/ in so much that he did not only send in to the world his prophets and true preachers with miracles, 
4. Regum. 13.  but also by the bon●s of them raised and sent in to the world deed men also, to give the world warning to, though he listed not to do so much at that wretches requests And finally when all was to little, and that they fell to false constrewing of the scripture, and so began to multiply their false doctrine, that they made the better believing folk the fewer and the false part the greater: he tarried not long but came himself to reform it & bygynne his own special church with his own preaching and his holy apostles/ not with bare dispicions and bearing men in hand the words of the scryptrue were plain enough/ but with plenteous miracles, to reprove the false doctrine of the false pharisees that had begined to teach contrary to tehyr old holy fathers before. And thus hath god ever sins sent holy saints in to his church, as the reason of his goodness required that he should. And where these new pharisees these manifold sects of heretics, both now do, and fro the beginning have done, miss conster the scripture of god against the mind of christ and his apostles: our lord sendeth and ever hath sent not only good virtuous preachers against them, but also reproveth and ever hath reproved their moste comen heresies against saints and sacraments with daily marvelous miracles/ and neither sufferth nor never suffered any one to be wrought among all them, but such as he worketh sometime, where he maketh an image to speak, or the blessed sacrament to bleed, to detect their dyspyghtfull dealing, and make them be burned therefore/ where as they shall never find in scripture that ever god suffered false miracle either by man or devil to be done to the confusion of his true prophet. And therefore it is plain yet again that t●e catholic church is the true church, and all these heretics congregations false.   

Tyndale.  
And beyond that, god wrote his testament unto them alway, both what to do, and what to believe even in sacraments. 〈◊〉 the sacrifices which god 〈◊〉 Adam's sons, were no dumb popetrye or supersticious maho●et●ye, but signs of the testament of god/ and in them they read the word of god as we do in books.   

More.  
Tyndale telleth us here another fair tale. But in this I say as I said before in the t'other/ that his tale lacketh but all that it should have, that is to 〈◊〉 the proof. For ye shall here now how he would seem to prove it.   

Tyndale.  
The testament which god made with Noah, that he would no mo●e drown the world with water/ he wrote in the sacrament of the rainbow. And the appointment made between him and Abraam/ he wrote in the sacrament of circumcision. And therefore said Steven, Acts vij he gave them the testament of circumcision/ not that the outward circumcision was the hole testament/ but the sacrament or sign thereof. For circumcision preached God's word unto them as I have in other places declared.   

More.  
Is not this well proved now. He showeth us of sacrifices of cyrcumcisyon, and of the rainbow/ which he coupleth with sacrifices and circumcision, and calleth it a sacrament like the t'other, because he would have us ween that no sacrament either than did or now doth, any more profit the soul than doth the rainbow. which rainbow whether god made new to make men sure of his promise by the marvelous new sight thereof, or that it being but an appearance natural by the reflexyon of the son/ I will not dispute because of other men's writing. But this I wot well, I see no man write thereof that ever saw it afore.  
Nor if it had never be seen yet/ there would I ween for all the natural reasons that men make now therefore, never a man have missed it. But as I say were it the tone were it the t'other/ god either made it or appointed it but for a sign of bodily health and the world, to be preserved from universal flood/ where as sacrifices and circumcision & much more the blessed sacraments of Crystes church, pertain to the soul health/ not as bare signs, but as things well helping there unto/ as prayer doth and all reverent manner and devout fashion used by man therein. But this is all Tyndales purpose to pull down the sacraments and have them taken for bare simple signs. For surely to couple the sacrifice of Ab●ll or the sacrament of circumcision with the sign of the rainbow/ is almost as well likened as to liken the matins that men sing at church, or the blessed sacrament at the mass, to the sign of the sarasons head.  
But now consider how well these things prove his ghostly purpose. He saith that from Adam to Moses' god taught them in sacraments alway both what they should do & what they should believe/ and he proveth it because god did so in three. And so this is his argument, god did so thryes, ergo he did so a●way/ god did s● 〈◊〉 three, ergo he did so in all/ god in sacraments taught them some things, ergo in sacraments he taught them all things.  
where findeth Tyndale that god taught Abraam, what thing the circumcision should signify, or wherefore he should do it, other than that he would have him and all his do it/ what moral virtue he should understand thereby, as the cutting of and ca●tynge away of all superfluous carnal things, or any such other thing, what did he teach him. Or where findeth he that to the people was any such thing preached thereby, when the circumcision was given and commanded.  
In the sacrifice of Abel in killing and offering the beasts/ where findeth Tyndale that there was taught unto Abel or any man else, that it should signify the killing of fleshly lusts or any such other things/ saving that they should serve god in that manner, which yet we rather gather by reason then find it written in scripture.  
where findeth he that Abraam was taught, that in offering up his son Isaac, and then the sheep in his stead/ it should signify the offering of christ upon the cross, or any thing else, but his thankful obedience and proof of his fast faith and hope in god.  
And though it may appear in every sacrifice and in every prayer unto god, that men should love god above all thing: yet in what sacrifice were they learned to love their neighbour?  
This is a vain tale of Tyndale which he shall never prove while he liveth. And yet the better he proveth it if he could prove it/ the worse should he make his matter. For if sacraments were with them in all that time able to be profitable without scripture: then so may ours be now profitable without scripture/ except he find therefore a prohibition in scripture, which neither he nor none of his fellows ever found yet, nor never shall find while they live. For where as they lay for a prohibition the words of Moses in the Deuteronomy/ commanding that no man shall add nor mynyshe● they that lay that text for a prohibition of our sacraments unwritten, be as I shall show you afterward surely to mad to live.  
Now seeth Tyndale this to be very troth himself, th●● if sacraments were without scripture profitable unto them, and stood them in the stead of scripture: it might be by the same reason in likewise profitable to us, and stand us instead, which thing destroyeth all his whole purpose. And therefore to answer that withal/ he saith that so it might in deed, if that the wicked pope had not taken away the significations of our sacraments from us, as he hath rob us (saith Tyndale) of the trenws sense of all the scripture.  
Tyndale must here tell us which pope hath taken from us the signification of the sacraments, and rob from us the true sense of the scripture. If any pope this viii hundred year (by all which time Tyndale saith they have been all nought) have done any thing therein contrary to the old pope's that were by the space of vii hundred year next before that, which pope's he denieth not for good nor can not deny: let him tell which, and wherein, and whereby he can prove it. But that am I sure he shall never show while he liveth. For I wot well that the old holy works that have been made, as well by old holy pope's, as saint Gregory, saint Leo, and other/ as by the old holy doctors, as saint Hyerom, saint Austayne● and other, concerning as well the significations of sacraments, as the true sense of scripture: do consent and agree together against Tyndale and Luther and frere Huskyn and all their fond fellows. And if Tyndale say nay: let him show me which old holy pope's were they, that ever held that the sacraments of the altar is such a bare simple sign, and set but only to signify the memorial of Cry●tes passion, and unite of him and us, with love and concord among ourself/ & that it were sin to think it were not breed still as Luther saith, or to think it were any thing else, as Tyndale & frere Huskyn saith/ and great sin to worship it, as Luther Huskyn, and Tyndale say. And as concerning the true sense of scripture, which he saith the pope hath rob from us/ and meaneth the pope's of eight hundred year last passed, which true sense Tyndale now bringeth again: let him show then which pope's of the other seven hundred year before, or which holy doctors of all that long time before/ did conster the scripture so, that any of them would say that a monk might wed a nun. And lo thus ye see good readers in what worshipful wise Tyndale proveth all his purpose. But now will we go farther.   

Tyndale.  
But in the time of Moses when the congregation was increased, that they must have many preachers and also rulers temporal: then all was received in scripture.   

More.  
Here is his hole ground whereupon he will anon conclude, that sith all was then received in scripture among the jews/ so must it follow that all was received by scripture among christian men. which followeth not as I will after show you, though he said true/ in that he saith that in the time of Moses all was received in scripture.  
But sith that thereupon is all his hole matter grounded: let him prove you that point first. For ye consider well that it is not enough to him that they then received scripture/ but he must prove that then they received all in scry●ture/ and that every thyng● that they should do or believe, was then delivered them in scripture. And therefore sith that this is the point and the thing that he saith and proveth not: let him prove you this well first, and then go further in God's name. what proof he bringeth ye sh●ll see/ & how true it is ye shall soon judge. Thus he saith.   

Tyndale.  
All was then received in scripture/ in so much that christ and his apostles might not have been believed without scripture for all their miracles.   

More  
Lo this is all the hole proof that ever he bringeth forth for this point, whereupon his hole purpose hangeth. And in deed it were somewhat/ if it were as true as it is false For he neither hath any scripture to prove it/ & all reason is quite against it. first as for scripture, though christ showed to the jews as the troth was, that the scripture made mention of him: yet he never said unto them as Tindale sayeth, that he might not be believed else/ nor no scripture so saith. He sayeth no more of scripture then of saint Iohn the baptist. For he sayeth that the scripture hereth witness of him, and so saith he of ●aynt Iohn to.  
But because Tyndale compareth the scripture with miracles, and setteth so little by god's word unwritten: christ said somewhat more by miracles and by his own word at that time unwritten, than he said either by saint Iohn or by the scripture either. 
johan. 15.  For he said of those twayne● that if either of both had lakked/ they ●●d not been in the sin of infidelity. And he saith not so much of saint Iohn, nor of the scripture neither.  
Now reason is clear against Tyndale, in that he saith that christ and his apostles could not be believed for all the miracles. For though god had never given warning by Moses, that there should come another prophet: yet except god had expressly said that he would never send more (which he said not) what should let christ to be believed coming with miracles/ and though he would teach in the belief, not contrary articles to those that were before taught, but other revelations farther that were not taught before, and in works make what change that god list to command. God's word when it was brought unto the people by Moses'/ was it believed for god's sake or for Moses? If for god's sake/ then though christ had not been god as he was: yet sith god sent him with miracles as he sent Moses, what should let him to be believed as well as Moses, though he had never be spoken of before? Now if for Moses' sake/ christ was as good as Moses was, all had he not been god/ and incomparably better sith he was god. why could he not then have been believed without the witness of Moses, coming with miracles more than ever Moses did or all the prophets bysyde/ and namely doing so many in his own name.  
And because that in the credence given unto Cryste● Tyndale giveth so great preemynens to the scripture above the miracles of christ/ that is to say to the word of god written above wonderful works of god done: let Tyndale understand that the cause why the witness of scripture holp unto the credence of christ, was by reason of miracle/ that is to wit because it prophesied of him. which thing that shall come so long after/ is a great miracle.  
And yet farther they that would not believe in christ for his miracles/ would not believe in him for the scripture neither.  
And yet for the final confutation of Tyndales folly, in saying that christ for all his miracles could not have been believed but for the scripture: every fool knoweth that all the world save the jews in their turning to Crystes belief, were not led by the scripture but by the miracles/ and believed not christ for the scripture, but believed the scripture for christ, & christ for the miracles. And the jews which people moste believed the scripture/ of them I say fewest believed in christ.   

Tyndale.  
Wherefore for as much Crystes congregation is spread abroad into all the world, much brother than Moses'/ and in as much as we have not the old testament only but also the new, wherein all things are opened so richly and all fulfilled, that before was promised/ and in so much that there is no promise behind of aught to be showed more save the resurrection/ ye and saying that Criste and all the apostles with all the angels of heaven if they were here, could preach no more than is preached of necessity to our souls: how then should we receive a new article of our faith without scripture, as profitable unto my soul as smoke for sore yies.   

More.  
Here Tyndale maketh his conclusion, that sith Moses because the people was increased, so fully received all things necessary to be believed in scripture, that christ himself might not have be believed without scripture (which thing is very false) therefore it followeth that Cristes' congregation hath all things necessary to be believed written in scripture/ which thing is as false, and reason it is that it be false, when he concludeth it upon false. But Tyndale perceiving well himself how false his foundation is, & how feeble his byelding is that he setteth thereupon: hath therefore to make it stand the surer, undershorens & underpropped it with certain other strong posts made of rotten redies.  
One is that all things be now bysyde the old testament, opened richly in the new testament, that before were promised. This underpropper is not very proper for to bear up his building/ for it is the self same thing that is in question. For we say that if he take the new testament for the book of that scripture written: he must not only say but also prove, that every thing is opened therein, that of necessity for our soul health is to be believed or done/ & this is the thing self that is in debate. And therefore while he doth but tell us and prove it not/ and so underproppeth his assertion with it self: he showeth himself as wise, as one that lest his rotten house should fall, would go about to take down the roefe, and pull up the groundsel to undershore the sides with the same.  
Then setteth he to it another shorer, that all thing is in the new testament fulfilled that was promised before/ & also that there is no promise behind of aught to be she●ed more, save the resurrection. Now this shorer is so surely set, that it is shortly blown down quite, if a man say no more but what than. For besides that, as there lay more promises in the old testament than every man well understood/ so may there yet peradventure lie more promises unperceyved yet, either by Tyndale or me, both in the old and in the new. But I say besides this/ and bysyde this also that Tyndale saith here untrue (for bysyde the resurrection there are yet unfulfilled as well diverse promises of tokens & things that shall come before the resurrection, & all those things perdie that are promised to come after, as the judgement it self, and bless or pain everlasting to the judged bodies) but yet I say bysyde all this/ what if all the promises be fulfilled saving the resurrection: doth that prove that there could be nothing of necessity believed without scripture? Is there nothing to be believed but promises? If god tell me a thing or bid me do a thing/ am I not bound to believe the tone nor to do the t'other because they be no promises? If Tyndale speak wisely in this, I must needs confess my folly/ for in good faith I can see no wit therein.  
But finally he setteth to a mighty strong post able to bear down all, when he saith that christ, and all his apostles, and all the angels of heaven, could preach no more than is preached of necessity to our souls. And therfore● and for all the wise and well framed reasons which I have reproved, and proved unreasonable before: he saith that to receive a new article of faith without scripture, were as profitable for our souls as smoke for sore yies  
This is a substauncy all shorer lo, and very surely set I assure you. For first I might agree all that he sayeth and his purpose never the more proved. For where he sayeth that all is all ready preached that is necessary or can be necessary to the soul: if I would answer and say, that is very true, all such things is all ready preached, but all such preaching is not written/ where were now Tyndales conclusion? But I will not be so mad to grant him that all is either written or preached either, that can be of necessity to man's soul. For who would be so mad to think that god knoweth not many things that we know not/ and that he can if it please him reveal and show us any of those, and command us to believe them when so ever he list. And when he so would do/ then were they of necessity to our soul's salvation to be believed. And he may when it please him command us to do some other things that he hath not commanded yet/ and then should we be bound to do them. And he may command to leave undone some things that he hath before commanded to be done/ and then sh●ld● we be bounden to leave them undone. And this is so plain and evident to every man, that hath any spark of reason in his head/ that I wonder where Tyndale had left his wit when he wrote this?  
And this was also a wise temperance of the matter that he sayeth for these wise causes, that it were as wholesome for our souls as smoke for sore yies, if we received any new articles of faith without scripture. If the yien of his soul were not sore bleared or stark blind with the smo●e o● the smoky fire of hell/ he would soon have seen with his two yien his two follies in these few words. For he saith if we received a new article without scripture/ whereby he confesseth that if god will give us a new article in scripture, as he gave Moses'/ it were not unwholesome. And what can he then say but if god give it without scripture, he must be believed/ but if Tyndale dare say that the truth of god do depend upon his writing, and that his word be nought worth till it be written? Another fol● is this, that he saith if we receive a new article/ and then all the samples● that he putteth be old/ and we shall put him some other as old.   

Tyndale.  
What holp it me to believe that our ladies body is in heaven.   

More.  
If this be a new believed article/ let Tyndale tell when this belief began/ & he shall find that it hath been thus believed even from the time of her deceace. And now the thing that almost xu C. year hath been believed/ he calleth a ne● article. But now how like is this belief of this new article of xu hundred year old, unto his ensample of smoke & sore yies. For first if it holp him not/ yet at the lest it hu●ted him not as sm●ke doth sore yies. But sith it is true and taught unto the church by the spyryt●●f god, which leadeth the church into every troth/ and ●h●●hyrche grow● into the consent and argument thereof by the same spirit of● concord and agreement, which maketh all the house of on● my●de/ and though the belief thereof were very new: yet it helpeth him and doth him good to believe it/ as it helpeth him and doth him good if he believe other truths which god hath revealed and showed by writing before/ except Tyndale trust not god upon his word, but if he give him his writing there upon and his letters patents under his great seal. For else why should it not help him as much to believe that our ladies body and soul is in heaven, sith god hath taught his church so to believe/ as it helpeth him to believe that Enoch or Hely, is body & soul in paradise, sith he may do the tone that doth the t'other. And he saith the tone that saith the t'other/ though he say them not both in one manner, but the tone by writing the t'other by mouth. For the inward inspiration of his spirit/ is his mouth unto his reasonable creatures.  
How be it he saith and speaketh in deed the tone thing and the t'other, both of one fashion. For if he speak/ he but inspireth his word in to some creature that speaketh it out. And as he speaketh he writeth. And therefore who so better believeth the word of god written, them the word of god unwritten/ that is to wit the scripture, than the inspiration: he believeth better the creature that wrote it, than god himself that inspired it.  
If Tyndale will avoid this and say, nay/ but I believe better these men that wrote the tone of Enoch and Hely, than I believe th●se men that tell me the t'other of our lady: then must Tyndale tell us why he better believeth those then these. wherein what hath he to say, but that those that wrote it in the scripture were inspired of god and so he believeth it, as the word not of men but of god. Then answer we again/ that they that tell me the other of our lady, were inspired of god/ and therefore it helpeth him to believe it as the word not of men but of god. If he ask how shall he know that god inspired the men that tell him the tale of our lady: we must ask him again, how knoweth he that god inspired them that wrote the tale of Enoch or Hely. If he say that he knoweth it because it is holy scripture: we then shall ask him ferther how he knoweth that it is holy scripture. And then is he driven to the point, that when he hath all do●●/ he must be fain to i'll to the church, and say that he know●●h ●● by the church. And when he shall show you by which church he knoweth it: he must needs show you some chyrch● which himself may know/ for else how should any such church tell it him as himself knoweth not? And when he showeth you any known church/ he is double confounded. For both he destroyeth his heresy that no church should be believed but elects/ and also shall be driven to confess, that he knoweth the scripture by our church/ that is to wit Crystes catholic church which he refuseth. And then shall we ferther tell him for his third confusion, that by the same self church doth he know that god hath inspired that other article of our lady. And yet for his fourth confusion, we shall tell him ferther, that the self same scripture which himself by the mean of the church's teaching believeth to be the word of god, teacheth him also to believe, that this thing which it believeth of our lady, is either good to believe or at the lestewyse not evil, nor like smoke to sore eyes/ sith our saviour himself in the same scripture saith, that the spirit of god shall teach them all troth, and lead them into every troth and that for ever/ sith himself there promiseth that he will not leave them, but be with them for ever unto the worlds end.  
And thus good christian ●eaders ye see to what wourshypfull conclusion, with a fourfold confusion. Tyndale hath brought himself, with laying this article whereby he would minish the worship of our most blessed lady.  
But likewise as he speaketh here of the assumption of our lady/ the belief whereof he would should seem to serve of nought: the same saith he in diverse places of the belief of the perpetual virginity of our lady/ saying, that it is nothing pertaining to the salvation of our soul. But I say that the catholic church of christ believeth, that the belief thereof being (as it is, and from the beginning hath been) taught by the holy ghost/ so pertaineth to the salvation of our souls, that the contrary belief pertaineth to the damnation of our souls if heresy be damnable. And that this is no new article, well appeareth by that that the old holy doctor saint Hierome so farforth reckoned it for heresy, that he wrote an hole book against the old heretic Helvidius for the confutation of the heresy. In which virtuous book saint Hierom neither proveth nor goeth about to prove her perpetual vyrgi●yte by scripture/ but only proveth that the places of scrypt●re which facundious brought forth for the contrary, were not effectu●●● 〈◊〉 prove his malicious purpose, against the comen r●●●●ued faith of Crystes catholic church. Against which we may be very sure that the scripture never speaketh in deed/ how apparent so ever an heretic make it seem.  
For likewise as though a sophister would with a fond argument, prove unto a simple soul that two eggs were three/ because that there is one, and there be twain, and one and twain make three: that simple unlearned man, though he lack learning to soil his fond argument/ hath yet wit enough to laugh thereat, and to eat the two eggs himself, and bid the sophister take and eat the third. So is every faithful man as sure in the sight of his soul, how apparently so ever an heretic argue by scripture to the contrary, that the comen faith of Crystes catholic church is out of question true/ and that the scripture understanden right, is never thereto contrary/ sith he woteth well both by his faith and by the scripture, that the church is taught his faith by god and his holy spirit/ according to Crystes promise that can never be false/ and woteth well also that god never teacheth against the troth, nor writeth against his word, but that the contraryete that seemeth, arryseth of heretics malicious soteltye, or as holy saint austin saith, for lack of well understanding. which miss under standing may soon miss lead y● man which list to leave the faith of Crystes catholic church, and leanly to the doctrine of a false heretic or to the liking his own wit.  
But for because Tyndale will when we have all said, stykke still at one point/ and ask us what shall profit his soul to believe that our lady is in heaven body and soul (of which he plainly ●yleueth the contrary, both for her body and her soul/ for he believeth with Luther, that all souls sleep, and sleep shall till the day of doom) and will ask us also what profiteth him to believe that our lady was a perpetual virgin and never had child but christ/ sith none of those both articles is proved by plain scripture/ and we might be saved well enough though our ladies body came not in heaven till domes day/ & also though she had more sons than one and more husbands to: I will ask him then again, what profiteth him to believe that our saviour himself died a virgin, and never had wife nor child/ sith that article is not proved by very plain scripture neither: & he might by his passion have wrought our redemption, all though he had wedded & gotten children to  
And in good faith I ween we shall see those folk fall so frantic ones/ that they shall not let at last, to say he did so to/ and bid us go prove the contrary by scripture, or else they be at their angelical liberty to believe which way they list. But now come we to Tyndales other example that he putteth of purgatory.   

Tyndale.  
What am I the better for the belief of purgatory.   

More.  
In good faith not the better of an halfpenny, while ye by leave it no better than ye do. But surely if ye believed it well/ ye might be both the better for purgatory and the farther from hell.   

Tyndale.  
To fere men with, thou wilt say.   

More.  
He maketh men answer as it pleaseth himself. But we will not say so/ for it were a foolish saying to say, Tyndale is the better for the belief of purgatory to fere men with. what fool would say so but Tyndale? For Tyndals' belief can not fere folk, no more than other men's belief feareth Tyndale/ nor Tyndale is not the better though other men be afeard. And therefore that question as he foolishly frameth it, so he foolishly answereth it.  
But I say that purgatory is ordained for the punishment of such sins, as were either venial in the beginning/ or from mortal turned to venial by the forgiveness of the mortality.  
And I say that the belief thereof profiteth two manner of wise. One wise in that it maketh a man to be preserved thence, or to be the less while there/ by that it maketh him do penance and good works here, of which two things Tyndale abhorreth to here.  
Another way the belief thereof profiteth, in that as for so far forth it keepeth the believer from hell/ into the fire whereof for the contrary belief and heresy holden against it, he should else fall hed●ynge down/ believed he never so well, and lived he never ●o well also bysyde. And therefore of the belief of purgatory there cometh these profy●es 〈◊〉 other folk/ though Tyndale be neue●●he better for the belief thereof, which believeth it not.   

Tyndale.  
christ and his apostles thought hell enough. And yet besides that, the fleshly imaginations may not stand with god's word. what great fere can there be of that terrible fire, which thou mayst quench almost for three halfpens.   

More.  
Nay surely that fire is not so lightly quenched, that folk should upon the boldness of pardons, stand out of the fere of purgatory. For likewise as though the sacrament of penance be able to put away theternalyte of the pain/ yet hath the party for all that, cause to fere both purgatory and hell to, lest some default upon his own part letted god in the sacrament, to work such grace in him as should serve therefore: so though the pardon be able to discharge a man of purgatory/ yet may there be such default in the party to whom the pardon is granted, that though he give for three halfpennies three hundred pound, yet shall he receive no pardon at all. And therefore can he not be for three halfpences out of fere of purgatory, but ever hath cause to fere it. For no man except revelation, can be sure whither he be partner of the pardon or not/ though he may have and aught to have both in that and every good thing good hope.  
And if the fere of purgatory were so clear gone, because it might be quenched with the cost of three halfpences: then were the fere of hell gone 〈◊〉 by Tyndales teaching/ sith bare faith and sleight repenting putteth out that fire clean, without the cost of a penny.  
And where he say●●h that christ and his apostles thought hell enough/ I ask him how he proveth that. For we see well by experience that hell and purgatory to, be scant enough between them both, to refrain folk from sin. we see also that both christ and his apostles, have showed us that there is purgatory. And that have they showed us not only by mouth, which were sufficient to faithful folk/ but by the scripture to. And yet both twain be not enough to Tyndale. For his fellows and he will not understand those places of scripture, but after their own fashion.  
And therefore now, where as he calleth as unprofitable ●● the so●le as smoke to sore eyes, all things that be not either written in scripture or deduced thereupon/ & put the ensamples of the assumption of our lady and purgatory: he must add unto them as many things more as himself putteth in the same case. And so thereby ye see that he saith now, that a child to be confirmed or to be crystened either, if it be crystened in latin/ or a man to shrive himself of his synnies, or to do penance, or to do any good works toward heaven ward, or to be aneled, or to pray to saints, or to believe in the holy sacrament of the altar, the blessed body and blood of christ, or to do any honour unto it: all these things be by Tyndale as profitable for the soul, as smoke is for sore eyes. But I pray god that the sore eyes of his sick soul may once look up better/ lest he finally fall in to the foul smoke of hell, where he shall never see after.   

Tyndale.  
And that the apostles should teach aught by mouth, that they would not write/ I pray you for what purpose.   

More.  
Now have ye herd all ready by what high reasons Tyndale hath proved you the thing that he affirmeth/ that is to wit that the apostles wrote and left in writing every thing that is of necessity for the soul, either to be done or to be believed.  
But sith he seeth himself, that in his reasons for his own part there is so ly●●e pith/ & that he can never prove nor no man else, the things that Tyndale must prove or else prove himself a fool, for falling from the faith of Crystes chyrce/ that is to say that the apostles left all such necessary points of the faith in writing: he leaveth of now his part himself, & asketh us why they left aught unwriten as though if I that never was of counsel with them, can not tell unto Tyndale plainly wherefore and why the apostles left aught unwritten, he might thereupon conclude that they wrote all together. Is not this a wise and a worshipful reason?  
This manner is much like as Tyndale would affirm that all the laws of England be written, and what so ever were unwritten were no law. And when he had long wrestled therewith and could not prove it/ would then ask me, hath the realm of England any laws that he not wryten● to what purpose I pray you should they be left unwritten. And then if I could not give him an answer thereto, such as could content him: he might therefore with good reason take his part for proved/ and well and wourshypfully conclude that all that ever are unwritten are no laws. But now in my name he answereth his question/ and than confuteth that answer.   

Tyndale.  
Because they should not come to the hands of the heathen for mocking saith master More. I pray you what thing more to be mokked of the heathen/ could they teach, than the resurrection, and that christ was god and man and died between two thieves, and for his deths' sake all that repent and believe therein should have their sins forgiven them. ye and if the apostles understood thereby as we do/ what madder thing unto heathen people could they have taught, than that breed is Crystes body and wine his blood. And yet all these things they wrote. And again purgatory, confession in the ear, penance and satisfaction for sin to godward, with holy deeds and praying to saints with such like/ as doom sacraments and ceremonies: are marvelous agreeable unto the superstition of the heathen people/ so that they needed not to abstain from writing of them, for fear lest the heathen should have mocked them.   

More.  
This was an happy hap for master Tyndale, that it happened master More with the laying of such a slender cause, to minister master Tyndale so much pleasant matter of replication. For if I had not happened to have said that the apostles forbore the writing of some things, for estewing of infidels mocking: Tyndale had had now no more to say, but had l●●te of with shame enough/ where as now by this point he hath occasion of much matter and winneth much worship therewith.  
But now if I would be content to say, that I was over seen in so saying/ and that I can not defend my words that they forbore to write any manner thing for any such cause/ ●nd that also I can not tell why nor for what cause the apoles wrote some necessary things, and left some necessary ●●●nges unwritten/ no more than I can tell why that every e●angelyste writeth many things that his fellows have, and yet l●●eth out some as great and as necessary as some that h● w●●●●●h in: if I would for Tyndales pleasure say this (●h●c●● y● I did I needed not much to force, for any great ha●●● that my part could take thereby/ for the thing were in itself never the less true that the apostles so did in deed, though I could not tell why) then had I taken away quite all Tyndales pleasure in his present babbling, and left him only to those reasons that he hath laid before/ in all which he is as ye see to shamefully confounded.  
But yet if it like you good readers to read mine own words as I wrote them, which ye shall find in the first book of my dialogue the xxv chapter: there shall ye perceive it/ that it is not fully so far from all reason, as Tyndale would have it seem. For I show there that the apostles did more plainly speak, and more openly declared, many things by mouth among the christian folk, because their audience was more meet while they were only among themself/ than they did by their writing, which might percase come in to the hands of heathen men, that would laugh some such things to scorn. Now cometh Tyndale and showeth that this is fondly said, sith the apostles letted not to write the thing that the heathen would most mock of all/ and that purgatory and the sacraments were lest likely to be mokked among them, for that they were most agreeable unto their own superstition. But now lest he should have cumbered himself somewhat with the answer, and have defaced therewith the beauty of his own tale: he leaveth out here all such things as I laid in that place for the proof. How be it those things will yet● I trust serve me suffy●yentely against all Tyndales scoffs. Among which yet where he weeneth that he speaketh wisest/ he helpeth me so in what himself even here unware. For first though I could not tell why they wrote somewhat that the heathen men will mock, & yet leave out somewhat lest they should mock/ though I could not I say tell why they did this: yet is it enough if I prove that they so did in deed. For the proof whereof I may lay and so did in my dialogue (which Tindale here leaveth out) that not only saint Peter so dy●, 〈◊〉 the second chapter of the acts, 
Actuum. 2  where he forba●e ●o call C●y●t god lest it should have hindered the faith in that audience/ but that our saviour did the same himself in the many 〈◊〉 preaching of his godhead, a● appeareth in the●● chapyter of saint Iohn. Now sith ye see th●t thus th●● dy● in deed/ wh●● needeth me to ca●e for all Tyndales why●s 〈◊〉 they 〈◊〉 bare this where was less cause to ●ere (and wh● the● 〈◊〉 this where was more cause to fere: sith he can 〈…〉 but that they so did, am I bounden to give the reckoning why and wherefore they so did? This dare I be bold to say/ that they never taught thing of difficulty be writing, but that they taught it more plainly by mouth/ by which explanations by mouth, the people came into the undoubted troth and faith of the matter, were the writing never so full of doubt.  
For the proof whereof/ Tyndale hath here as I said before, by reason of his heresy with false understanding of saint Paul/ brought forth a right good sample. For thus he sayeth.   

Tyndale.  
ye and if the apostles understood thereby as we do/ what madder thing unto the heathen people could they have taught, than that breed is Crystes bod●e and wine his blood/ and yet all these things they wrote.   

More.  
Lo here ye see that Tyndale himself doubteth upon saint Paul's words, whither he meant as we do/ which yet mean not as Tyndale doth, that breed is Crystes body and wine his blood, so that the breed and wine still remain as Tyndale sayeth that the apostles write/ but that the breed & wine is converted and changed into Crystes body and blood/ and that by what words so ever the apostles write it, yet that is the thing that they mean/ & that all be it that they have written it plain enough in scripture, yet both christ and they with many words so clearly did declare it by mouth, that in that article neither then nor never after was there any doubt arose, till that these heretics here now of late years make dowtes upon the writing, contrary to the declaration made by christ and his apostles, and well and surely written in men's hearts fourteen hundred year before. Such apparel is it lo to fall from the undoubted faith unto the dispicions of the scripture, which by the faith is understanden as the scripture it self. For likewise as it saith plainly, scrutamini scripturas, search ye in scripture: so saith it as plainly, nisi credideritis non intelligetis, but if ye believe ye shall not understand. And here ye see that though Tyndale will not confess that the apostles left any thyng● unwritten, nor that they wrote any thing the more coue●●●●●or the mocking of the heathen/ yet he saith himself that t●e apostle wrote so that men might doubt what they me●●● A●d that I ●are well say that in the christian flokke, they presently so farforth declared it/ that they left no such doubt therein. And also dare I say that they taught things by mouth which they wrote not/ part for the cause afore said, part for that it needed not/ and this I say boldly. For though Tyndale say nay: 
●. Corinth. 11.  yet saint Poule said yes himself, when he wrote unto the corinthians, caetera quum venero ipse disponam: the other things I will dispose or order when I come myself.  
But the sacraments so sore grieve Tyndales sore yien, that he may not abide the sight of them/ & therefore he goth on against them still.   

Tyndale.  
More over what is it that the apostles taught by mouth and durst not write, the sacraments. As for baptism and the sacrament of the body and blood of christ, they wrote/ and it is expressed what is signified by them. And also all the ceremonies and sacraments that were from Adam to christ had significations/ and all that are made mention of in the new testament. Wherefore in as much as the sacraments of the old testament ha●e significations/ and in as much as the sacraments of the new testament (of which mencyo● is made that they were delivered unto us by the very Apostles at Crystes commandment) have also significations/ and in as much as the office of an apostle is to edify in christ/ and in as much as divine ceremony edifieth not, but hurteth all together (for if it preach not unto me, than I can not but put confidence therein, that the deed it self justifieth me/ which is the denying of Crystes blood) and in as much as no mention is made of them as well as of other/ ner is known what is meant by them: therefore it appeareth that th'apostles taught them not, but that they be the false marchandyce of wily hypocrites.   

More.  
If a man read over these words and examine them not/ he may be soon abused. But who so well way them, and consider every part/ shall soon perceive that this process is filled up with malice, falsed, and folly. first he would that because the apostles have written the two sacraments, that is to wit baptism & the sacrament of the altar, and the significations of them/ and of the other five as he saith, have not written: he would I say therefore that we should take it as proved, that the other ●yue were no divine sacraments, nor delivered to the church by christ nor his apostles. Now is this argument though his antecedent were true/ yet as wisely concluded, as this is of the laws of england: Men have written some/ ergo they have w●●ten a●●●  
By the title of his chapter he taketh in hand to prove, that the apostles have left no necessary thing unwritten. And now he proveth it, by that that they have written some. For of his reason, ye & of all his reasons in conclusion this is the hole sum. which some what effect it hath every fool may see/ but if Tyndale prove me farther that the apostles promised that they would write all/ whereof saint Iohn professeth plain the contrary, and so doth saint Poule to.  
Now yet in this reason of his as faint and as feeble as it is, he is fain to psuppose false. For he presupposeth that of any of the remanant/ the apostles have not written. which is so plain false, that if there were any shame in him, he might not for shame say it. Of confirmation writeth saint Luke in the acts plainly/ & saint paul to the hebrews as plainly. 
A●●. 8. He●re. 6. 〈◊〉. ●. 1. Tim●●●. 4. 〈◊〉. 5. M●rc. ●.  Of matrimony and presthed, saint Poule manifestly/ the tone to the Ephesyes, the t'other to Timothe. annealing, saint james, and saint Mark in the gospel also. And of penance and the parts thereof, every man all most in every part of scripture. And this thing Tyndale so well knoweth/ and that it hath been so often so plainly proved unto them, that they could never yet nor never shall while they live, be able to withstand it, neither with scripture nor with reason, but with railing and babbling. And therefore as I say this knoweth Tyndale so well, that it is more the● shame for him now so to write, as though the apostles had never written of them. which if they never had done in deed/ yet were the sacraments sure enough, which hang upon god●es word as sure as all their writing/ and of which unwritten word we be certain & sure by the self same means, by which we know their books for holy writing/ that is to wit, by the relation of the catholic church of christ, and by the spirit of god that leadeth the church in to the belief of the troth/ & leadeth every well willing person a part/ into the believing of the catholic church, & by the belyving of the church, into the right belief of every necessary troth/ & by the grounds thereof first had, into the right understanding of holy scripture/ whereby the faith before had, is more and more fastly confe●med/ and with out which faith before had, the wit of ●an might abuse the scripture to the occasion of infidelity and ●nfayth●ullnesse.  
But yet because I would be loath that Tyndale might say that I miss take him in any thing/ and then ground my reason against him upon my own miss taking of his words: I will yet a little examine his words better/ when he saith that the remanant of the sacraments bysyde baptism and the sacrament of the altar, be no profitable sacraments, nor have no promise of grace, because the apostles wrote not of any of them as they did of the other twain. I would wit of Tyndale whither he mean that of any of the other five, the apostles wrote nothing at all/ or else that they wrote not of any grace promised unto any of them/ or else that of none of them the apostles wrote any proper significations of their outward signs/ as saint Poule did of baptism when he resembled it unto Crystes burying and resurrection/ and of the sacrament of the altar, when he teacheth the Corynthyes that one loaf is made of many grains of corn, and the wine of many grapes, and that christian men should in likewise being many in person, be made one in love and concord, and as it were, made all one body in and with our saviour christ himself. If he mean the first way/ that is to wit that if any of the said five sacraments the apostle wrote nothing at all/ then shall he show himself to shameless. For the words be clear both of confirmation, presthed, annealing, and both the other twain. If he mean of the second manner/ his saying shall be as shameless as in the first. For it is evident in all the three before remembered, that the apostles write of grace given with the putting upon of the hands. And therein when Tyndale seeketh an evasion in his book of obedience/ saying that the putting of the hands was but a manner of men in that co●tre, as it was to stretch out the arm in preaching, or to lay an hand upon a boy's head & call him good son/ this evasion is no●e evasyon. For in the sixth chapter of saint Poule unto the Hebrews/ saint Poule would not have made so seryouse & earnest remembrance of the putting upon of the hands (which he rehearseth as earnestly as baptism) if it were but such customable manner that men may do and live undone as they list. Nor if it were but such a thing/ he would not so expressly say to Tymothe, that he had grace given v●to him by the pu●●yng of his hands upon him. These places of scryptu●● and many more to/ be for this matter so plain against T●ndale, and so ●uydent/ that when he wrestleth with them and would fain scape away with some gay gloze of his own device: he fareth like a butter fly fallen on a lime twig, which the more it striveth and flotereth, ever the faster it hangeth.  
Now if he mean in the third fashion/ that is to wit that the apostles of those five sacraments, do not beside the comen signification of grace, write any special and proper significations of the outward tokens, to which significations the same outward tokens had such resemblans and likeness that they were therefore appropered unto them/ as water in baptism hath by the wessing of body a resemblauns unto the cleansing of the soul, if Tyndale mean in this manner as it seemeth that he doth (for when Luther and he and all the sort of them: had long laboured against the blessed sacraments, and had first assayed to say that five of them were not in scripture spoken of at all/ and when that would not be bidden by, then that there was at the lest wise no grace promised with them/ when they see themself shamefully convicted and reproved in that point to, then fell they finally to the third point/ and would not withstanding that the scripture make mention of them/ & of grace also granted with them/ yet would the wise men make us so mad as to take them all for nought, but if we find in scripture what other special signification every outward token hath/ and preach that significations to the people, as the special thing and the hole effect of the sacrament letting the grace go by/ which these men would were clean forgotten, & in no wise believed. But where as in all their wry●ynges they rail upon allegories, & cry out upon such holy doctors as preach them: yet the holy sacraments self they would should serve for allegories only and for nothing else)  
Now than I say sith Tyndale meaneth this wise and therefore saith in his words afore remembered, that otherwise preached they do no good but hurt all together/ for it maketh he sayeth the audience to put confidence therein, that the deed it self justifieth a man, which is the denying of Cristes' blood/ sith Tyndale I say sayeth thus: I would wit of Tyndale whether the sacraments and the ceremony●s of the old law were by god provided to be well, and with their profit delivered & taught by M●yses unto the jews. I think ●●●t Tyndale will not be so mad to say, that god did by Moses teach them to serve him with those sacraments, sacrifices, & ceremonies, displeasant to himself, thankless toward themself, & also to their hurt. wherefore if he have either wit or grace/ he must needs grant & agree, that they were by Moses taught unto the jews, very well and agreeable to God's pleasure & their wealth. But then say I that those special and proper significations of every sacrament, sacrifice, and ceremony were not taught them/ nor they understood them not: wherefore it followeth that Tyndale sayeth false/ in that he saith that the knowledge of them was so necessary for the soul health/ that without that knowledge the use of them must needs be noyful and not lawful unto them. For but if Tyndale teach false in this/ god had taught his people in the beginning to serve him with damnable ceremonies himself.  
Now if Tyndale will at this clap turn his cheek a side/ and say that because that else all their service to god done with those sacraments and ceremonies had been damnable/ therefore it appeareth well that all the sygnyfycacions of them were taught them/ and so the minor of mine arguemmt false: yet in turning the to cheek for me, he turneth the t'other very fair to me/ so that he will have a clap on the tone cheek or the t'other make what skyfte he can.  
For then say I this unto him, that if the knowledge of all these significations was so necessary to them that with out that knowledge, the doing of those things which without sin they might not leave undone, were sin as oft as they did them/ and that therefore lest we should be so wretched to ween god had on ●ue●y side so bywrapped his people in sin himself, by his own special provision, that they could not by no mean escape: we must needs perceive that god caused them to be by Moses taught all those significations. Then say I that sith they were not written unto them in the scripture, they were if Tyndale told us true taught them but only by mouth/ and so fro mouth to mouth taught and continued among them, till men by their folly and slougth fell to forge●● them or little to force of them, and then to not believe them as these heretics far by the right faith at thy● d●ye.  
And then say I that therup●on● it very well followeth ferther/ that Tyndale saying that M●yses receyu●● all ●●cessary things in writing, said very false & 〈…〉 fool/ for the knowledge and understanding of those significations of all their sacrifices and ceremonies, he confesseth to be necessary upon apparel of their souls, and yet he confesseth that they were not written in the scripture.  
And if Tyndale ween to wry aside and scape, by that he saith that those sacraments & ceremonies served them for books/ & that they ●ed all the significations in them as in books: I ask him whither the ceremonies were tokens so like the significations, that they were able to teach the significations, and keep them by the beholding of the ceremonies or not. If they were/ they had not been forgotten. If they were not, and yet the significations so necessary/ then yet again was not every thing necessary delivered Moses in writing.  
But letting Tyndale with his folly pass/ the troth is that the jews had necessary things taught them beside the writing/ & had an expectation of christ and of redemption by him before the law written/ & in that time, and after, and the jews look for it yet/ & they know that without him all their sacraments could not for their final salvation serve them. But when they began little & little to fall from that faith/ and began to trust in the law & the ●●orkes of the law alone/ leaving of this point of faith which was of the law, sacraments & ceremonies, and all their bodily works the soul: then went they wrong. And that is ●he thing which saint Poule so sore reproveth, in their t●ust & confidence to be saved by the works of the law/ where as if they had not left of the force & strength of faith/ both works of the law, and the ceremonies to, had stand them in stead of heaven. And therefore this nothing toucheth the church of christ when they put trust in the sacraments/ for they do it not without the faith that all the force and strength of them cometh of Crystes passion/ for this they believe, and this they teach.  
And it is no doubt but that the jews never knew the special significations of all their sacraments, sacrifices, & ceremonies, other than grace & remission of sins, or peradventure that they were figures & tokens of things that should fall not yet perceived by them/ as we know our sacraments 〈…〉 signs of grace. And it is undoubted, that both they & we ●hich in faith, hope, & che●yte, do any such thing as god 〈…〉 & 〈…〉 such fashion as he biddeth v●/ all though we know● not why he will be served in such wise, no more than Abraam knew why god bade him to serve him with the sacryfysing of his own son: yet is that doing of that deed done in that wise, pleasant & acceptable to god, and profit to man's soul/ what so ever Tyndale tell us, and his master Martin to, & frere Huskyn also, and take their wise wives with them. And therefore all this tale of Tyndale against the sacrament/ is not worth the lest feather of a wild goose wing.  
But yet consider one thing by the way, that ye miss take him not, nor be not by a fair word led out of your way. He calleth the sacrament of the altar the sacrament of the body & blood of christ/ in which words he calleth it well, but yet meaneth he not so well thereby as good christian men do, nor as himself would seem to do. For he meaneth not that there is the very body & blood of christ in deed, though he say there is the sacrament thereof. For by that meaneth he nothing else, but only a bare sign, and token, and a memorial thereof.  
For the great heretic Thorpe in his examination, calleth the sacrament a right; and by the same name that Tyndale now doth/ so that ● man would at the first hearing find no fault therein, but miss take him for a good christian man. But afterward he declareth himself well and clearly, that he meaneth like a naughty heretic/ as Tyndale doth also in sundry places of his book. For he saith the sacrament, sign, and token, be but three names of one thing/ and that the sacrament of the altar is very breed still. And he mocketh at them that teach it to be the very body of our saviour himself/ and he is wood with them that do it any honour.  
And so in this point concerning the blessed sacrament of the altar, Tyndale is yet a much more heretic than Luther is himself in his writing/ all though in deed it appeareth well that he meant as much in the beginning, till he withdrew himself for envy of other, that hasted forward and set forth that heresy before him.  
And of troth I am right credebly informed by a very virtuous man, whom god hath of his goodness illumined & called home again, out of the dark Egypte of their blind heresies/ that at such time as frere Barons and Tyndale first met & talked together beyond the see, after that he fled out of the f●eres where he was enjoined to 〈…〉 his penance after he had borne his faggot; Ty●dale ●nd he were of sundry sects. For frere Barons was of zwynglius sect against the sacrament of the altar, believing that it is nothing but bare breed. But Tyndale was yet at that time not fully fallen so far in that point/ but though he were bad enough bysyde, was yet not content with frere Barons for the holding of that heresy. But within a while after (as he that is falling is soon put over) the frere made the fool mad out right, and brought him blyndfelde down into the depeste dungeon of that devilish heresy/ wherein he sitteth now as fast bounden in the chair of pestilence, with the chain of pertynacyte, as any of his unhappy fellows. And this I give you knowledge of/ because I would not in any wise that ye were deceived with him, where he speaketh well & yet meaneth nought. But now let us yet farther consider well his words. Thus he saith.   

Tyndale.  
All the ceremonies and sacraments that were from Adam to christ, had significations/ and all that are made mention of in the new testament.   

More.  
Upon this he concludeth after, that except baptism & the sacrament of the altar/ all the remanant be no true sacraments for lack of significations. But ere he can so conclude/ he must first prove, not only that all the sacraments and ceremonies from Adam to christ had significations/ but also that all those significations were them to the people known and understanden. For else though god did set things to signify and to be done: yet if he commanded them to do it and told them not the significations, but would leave them to be showed and disclosed at such time afterward as it should like himself/ it was no sin for them in the mean while to do the things that god bode them do/ but great merit to them, though they understood not what the things signified that they did/ no more than my servant that can no more but write, is worthy rebuke and blame in the writing of a latin book at my bidding, whereof he woteth not what any one word meaneth. Now that all the significations, of all the sacraments and ceremonies from Adam to christ, were understanden of the people: that shall not Tyndale prove me, though he should live as many years as were between the creation of Adam/ & the ●●rth of christ. And therefore as many years must he needs have also● ere ever h● make his conclusion follow and his argument good. For if god gave them ceremonies and sacraments, whereof he gave them not the significations: then so might he likewise give us if it so please him to do. And farther if they by the doing of those not understanden ceremonies and sacraments in obedience of his bidding, did not sin, but deserved thank/ all such I say as did them in due faith of salvation by christ that was to come: then may we also by the observing of sacraments and ceremonies, having some significations farther than we perceive (for one general signification of them all we know, that they be all good tokens and significations of grace, in that they be taught by god and his spirit that in such things doth instruct his church) we may likewise I say observe them without sin, and not without thank of god. And so Tyndales argument goth to ground quite/ all though our sacraments & ceremonies were not good in deed. For they may be good for any reason that he maketh to the contrary.  
But now that they be good in deed, and delivered unto Crystes catholic church by himself and his holy spytyte sent by himself to dwell therein, to teach it all necessary troth, and thereby necessarily to preserve it from all damnable untruth, false belief, and idolatry (as the sacraments & ceremonies were if they were false): this have I proved to Tyndale ofter I trow them fifteen times/ to which in fifteen hundred year he shall I am sure never make one good answer.   

Tyndale.  
Wherefore in as much as the sacraments of the old testament have significations/ and in as much as the sacraments of the new testament (of which mention is made that they were delivered unto us by the very apostles at Crystes commandment) have also significations/ and in as much as the office of an apostle is to edify in christ/ and in as much as a 〈◊〉 ceremony edyfyeth not, but hurtet● all together (for if it preach not unto me, than I can not but put confidence therein that the deed it self justifieth me/ which is the denying of Crystes blood) and ●● as much as no petition is made of them as well as of other, nor is known what is me●● of them therefore it appeareth that the apostles taught them not/ but that they be the 〈◊〉 merchandise of wily hypocrites.   

More.  
He repeateth here & hepeth up all his proves together, which proves I have reproved piece meet all together/ and so his conclusion which he deduceth upon them, is all ready reproved all together. But yet for his double confusion can I not forbear to touch one piece again, which in his repetition here he seemeth to set out more open & more clearly to declare.  
This piece is, where he sayeth that all the sacraments of the new testament have significations also/ and than exponeth which all he meaneth/ saying all of which mention is made that they were delivered unto us by the very apostles at Crystes commandment.  
It is to me more than wonder what this man meaneth. first it must needs be that he accounteth among such as he sayeth, there is no mention made of their delivery by the very apostles, all those five which he so often and so fully refuseth to take for sacraments/ that is to wit confirmation, penance, wedlock, holy order, and annealing. For he saith alway that the other two, that is baptysine and the sacrament of the altar have significations, and that these have none/ and by this reason he would now conclude that only those two be very sacraments, and none of all these five.  
But now his words will rather prove that these five have significations to. For he saith that all have significations, whereof mention is made that they were delivered unto us by the very apostles. wherefore Tyndale doth here either confess that these five have significations also/ & then confesseth his words false, by which he so often saith they be no sacraments, because they have no significations/ for lack, whereof he calleth them dumb ceremonies: or else he sayeth here, that there is no mention made that any of these five were delivered us by the very apostles/ and than is he therein to plainly proved false. For every man seeth that there is none of all these five, but that as I have often showed, mention is made of them by the evangelists, 
A●t. 8. Tim●o ●. 4. Ephes. 5. Iac●●●. 5. Marc. 6.  and the other of the apostles/ if they be the very apostles whom he and we both call the apostles, saint Peter, saint Poule, saint jamys, and their fellows. So that I wonder what the mad man meaneth to speak in this matter so solemnly, and handle it so madly. For when they make mention of them: the wise man may well wit that they did not begin by any wily fo●e after/ but by christ himself that taught those things to them, and they forth to his church.   

Tyndale.  
And thereto presthed was in the time of the apostles an office/ which if they would do truly it would more profit than all the sacraments of the world.   

More.  
Is not here another mad reason? His purpose is to prove that the apostles left no necessary thing unwritten/ and Tyndale proveth it thus. In the apostles time priesthood was an office/ which if the priests would do it truly, would more profit than all the sacraments in the world. Now ye wot well his conclusion must needs be this: And therefore it followeth that the apostles left no necessary thing vnwryten● is not this a mad concluded argument. And yet are there in his words more follies than one beside. For granted that presthed was an office/ yet might that office be consecrated with a sacrament, and so was in deed. And a part of his office was also to minister the sacraments to the people.  
Now if that office well occupied, were more profitable than all the sacraments besides: what letteth that the other sacraments to be good and necessary to salvation. were this a wise argument? Better is it to forbear sin then to do penance for sin/ ergo to do penance for sin is not necessary. Now after this goodly argument goeth he to another as gay, and saith.   

Tyndale.  
And again, gods holynesses strive not one against another, nor defile one another. Their sacraments defile one another. For wedlock defileth presthed, more than whoredom, theft, murder, or any sin against nature.   

More.  
Here is but one argument, and that but short/ but here be two lies long & loud enough. For first where he groundeth himself upon this, That god's holynesses strive not one against another, nor defile one another: he sayeth plain false and against holy scripture quite. For the burying of deed men, ever was and is an holy deed and well allowed with god/ and yet would he not suffer the bys●hoppe to berry any man, and though it were his father. And also if Tyndale will abide by this: either he must say that perpetual virginity is nought and not holy, contrary to saint Poule and our saviour himself, who take it and teach it for holy and prefer it before wedlock with his work/ or else he must say that wedlokke with his work is nought and not holy, which god himself both blessed and commanded in paradise/ and which holy scripture commendeth, where it saith that wedlokke is honourable where the bed is undefiled with adultery. And then must he confess also that his own master Marten Luther (if the work of wedlokke be fowl and sinful) hath sinfully double defiled himself with wedding of his nun. Or else finally must he confess himself for a fool, in saying that God's holiness strive not one against another/ but if he save himself and say, that perpetual virginity and the work of wedlokke, be not repugnant the tone to the t'other/ and than he shall not need to confess him sel●e a fool, for the hole world will confess it for him.  
Now maketh he another lie/ where he saith that wedlock defileth priesthood more than whoredom, theft, murder, or any sin against nature. For if he say this as of himself/ it is a foolish lie. But if he say it as he doth in the person of the catholic church, to make men believe that the church teacheth so: then is it a very malycyouselye. For it is not true, nor the church teacheth not so. For the church plainly teacheth that whoredom, theft, murder, and sin against nature, could never be lawful neither to pressed nor lay man. But the church both knoweth and confesseth, that wedlok and priesthood be not repugnant but compatyble of their nature/ and that wedded men have been made priests and kept still their wives. But sith perpetual chastity and the forbearing of the work of wedlokke, is more acceptable to god than the work of wedlokke in matrimony: therefore the church taketh none to be priests but such as promise and profess never to be married, but keep perpetual chastity. And then doth marriage after the promise made, not by reason of the presthed taken upon them, but by reason of the promise made unto god and broken: defile the pressed, I will not dispute whither as much as theft, murder, or the sin against nature/ but I am sure as much as whoredom doth. For sith the marriage is no marriage/ it is but whoredom itself. And I am sure also that it defileth the pressed more than double and triple whoredom/ sith that his marriage ●eynge as it is unlawful, and thereby none other but whoredom, doth openly rebuke and shame two sacraments there at ones, that is both presthed & matrimony/ & besides that not only committeth whoredom, but also saith openly that he will lcommytte whoredom/ and as a bold best and a shameless whoremaster, plainly professeth afore the face of god and all christian people, that in stead and dyspyght of his professed chastity, he cometh there to bind himself to shameless perpetual whoredom. And thus good christian readers ye see, how well this wise argument serveth him.  
And now putteth he after it his great solemn question, where he findeth in scripture that women may christian children/ which joineth to his words before, near enough in the book, but in reason as far of as the scripture that he layeth therefore, is far of from the matter/ as I have touched before.  
And surely thorough all his book and almost every thing that he maketh, sometime the chapters, sometime the paragraphs and reasonings within the chapter, have so evil dependence one toward another/ that it seemeth the matter to be gathered by diverse folk/ and as they come to him in diverse papers, so he without order and at adventure patcheth in his pieces nothing like together, with great sakke semies, and some seem rend between. And in likewise joineth he now the final clause of this chapter unto the remanaunte/ so that who so consider what and how many things go between it, and the thing whereupon he concludeth it/ shall surely ween it were a poisoned stinking tail of some stinking serpent that were quite cut of, & after laid a side far from the poisoned body. For this is his final clause and his hole conclusion.   

Tyndale.  
And finally though we were sure that god himself had given us a sacrament what so ever it were: yet if the signification were once lost/ we must of necessity either seek up the signification, or put some other signification of god's word thereto, what we ought to do or believe thereby, or else put it down. For it is impossible to observe a sacrament without signification, but to our damnation. If we keep the faith purely, and the law of love undefiled/ which are the significations of all ceremonies: there is no ieobardye to alter or change the fashion of the ceremony, or to put it down if need be.   

More.  
Lo good readers here ye see finally how well and how w●sely, and thereto how virtuously Tyndale fynysheth th●s chapter. For the whole effect of all these words is in th● world nothing else/ but that if god bid you do a thing and he tell you not what he meaneth thereby, and for what cause he will have you do it: ye must needs leave it undone, & bid him do it himself. would Tyndale (ween you) be well content with his own servant, that would serve him of the same fashion? not do what he biddeth him till he tell him why he biddeth him? would it not have become Adam well when god forbade him the tree of knowledge, to have asked god again why he did so/ & say, tell me god lord wherefore, and what thou meanest thereby, and why should I more die for eating thereof, then of another tree/ tell me this good lord ere thou go, for else be thy back turned once, I will eat thereof whither thou wilt or no.  
when god taught Moses the making of the tabernacle, the temple, & all things belonging thereunto: would it not have done well in Moses' mouth to have said unto god: Tell me what it meaneth that thou wilt have the tabernacle made of this manner, or else it shall lie unmade for me.  
when our saviour himself sent out his disciples, and bade them in the confirmation of their doctrine, lay their hands upon sick folk, and they should be hole, and that they should anoint some with oil: would it not (ween ye) have done very well, that they should have said nay, but if he would tell them why lay their hands more than speak their bare word, & why anoint them with oil rather than smear them with butter. Surely the devil hath made this man mad/ he would else never say as he saith. For if it were impossible to use a c●remonye but unto damnation, & the obedience to god's bidding be ever more deadly sin, but if the signification be known: then lived the chosen people of god in the old law in a strange perplexite. which what so ever Tyndale say, shall never be proved to have understanden the significations of all the ceremonies/ which god expressly commanded them to fulfil and observe/ though he would not that they should ween that the observing of them without faith and other good works, should suffice them as Tyndale and Luther say/ that faith alone shall save us without good works/ as they said of old, and as he sayeth now without sacraments to. For this is his final conclusion of all/ that if we keep the faith and the law of love undefiled, there is no apparel at all to alter and change the fashion of the ceremonies, & to put them down to/ meaning as it seemeth that if we keep the faith and believe with Luther that there needeth no more but faith/ and then therewith keep the law of love after Luther's loving manner, in lodging lovers freres and nuns lovingly together: then we shall never need to care whether we change or put down ceremonies and sacraments and all.  
And surely very soothe he saith. For when we fall once to be content with that: there will, but if we change that mind and mend, neither any ceremony nor any sacrament serve us.  
And yet if faith and love be as Tyndale here saith, the significations of all the ceremonies: what apparel is there to keep all the ceremonies with them twain, without any other significations? And thus by Tyndale his own tale we shall neither need to put them down, altar, nor change them/ where he saith afore we must seek the significations again, or put down the ceremonies upon pain of damnation.  
And here have ye now seen all that ever he saith, for the proof of the thing that he hath in this chapter taken in hand to prove/ that is to wit that the apostles have left written in scripture all things that of necessity pertain to the soul health, both in things to be done, & things to be believed. And now perceive ye perfitly also/ that all that ever he saith, there is not any one thing that to the proof of his purpose serveth him worth a rysh.  
Here might I now well leave (ye see well) as for this matter/ sith I have sufficiently confuted and avoided clearly all that Tyndale hath alleged for his part in this chapter/ in which he would prove that the apostles have left written in holy scripture every thing necessary to be believed or done, for the salvation of our souls/ and that so fully, that what so ever is not written in scripture, nor deduced thereupon (by which deducing what he meaneth I have by his own example showed you) that thing is not as he saith to be believed nor to be done of necessity/ but men be at their liberty in all such manner thing to do it or do it not, believe it or believe it not, or rather in sin to believe it or do it, though all the catholic church of christ both do believe, and many hundred years have believed that the thing is of necessity to be done or believed. In which mate● 〈◊〉 ● say, sith Tyndale hath failed of his proof, I might here make an end/ saving that I have thought it convenient for his more utter confusion, to bring in by and by such things, as I find written by him for his part in this matter bysyde/ that ye may see without farther seeking for it, all that he can say at ones. I shall therefore show you his answers to such things, as I in the xxv chapter of the first book of my dialogue alleged/ for the proof that all necessary things were not written in scripture, but some such only taught and delivered unto the church by mouth. And when ye shall here have heard Tyndales answers unto those things: ye shall then the more clearly perceive how foul a fall he hath in this matter, upon which the great part of all his heresies dependeth/ and over that ye shall right easily judge what pith and substance is in his book of answers, wherewith he would fain seem clearly to confute my dialogue.  
I showed there in my dialogue by the authority of saint Iohn the evangelist in the last chapter of his gospel/ that all thing was not written. For there he saith himself, 
Iohn. 21  Many things did jesus/ which if they were all written, the world would not receive the books. To this answereth Tyndale thus.   

Tyndale.  
He iugleth. For Iohn meaneth of the miracles which jesus did/ and not of the necessary points of the faith.   

More.  
ye see well now that Tyndale well feeleth, that sith the evangelists did not go together by appointment to write their gospels/ nor when they had written them conferred their books together, to see whither every necessary point were written in among them all/ or else at that collation to put it in some one/ as we find that saint Poule had conference with Peter and other of the apostles, 
Galathas. 2,  to come and speak of the faith among them, but not to write it all out in books/ but every evangelist of occasion offered unto himself, as god put in his mind and remembrance, wrote his own gospel severally by himself, and their epistles in like wise/ and peradventure one of them in all their lives never red the gospel that the t'other wrote: this I say being thus, except that god beside their purpose provided ● among them all every necessary point should be written (which thing Tyndale neither doth nor can by reason or scripture prove) else if any of them left unwritten any point necessary to be believed, Tyndale can not say but that every of the other apostles might do the same/ and than hath Tyndale no surety that every such thing was written.  
And therefore Tyndale feeleth full well how near this place of saint Iohn prykketh him/ if in those words of saint Iohn might be understanden that he had not written every necessary point of our belief.  
And therefore to avoid this pinch/ Tyndale saith that I juggle. For saint Iohn he sayeth meant only of Crystes miracles/ and not of any necessary point of the faith.  
I juggle not. For I say not nay but the saint Iohn meant of miracles. And in the tone place of the twain he speaketh of miracles by name/ saying jesus wrought many other miracles in the presence of his disciples that be not written in this book. In the other place in the very end he saith the christ did many other things/ which if they should be all written, all the world could not receive the books that should be written. In which words I deny not but that saint Iohn meant of Crystes miracles to, & therefore I juggle not. But Tyndale that in that second place where saint Iohn meaneth no miracles, there excludeth his doctrine/ & would make us ween that saint Iohn left not unwritten any necessary point of faith: he iugleth & goth about to beguile us  
I think he taketh not so great hold● upon this word, did/ in that saint Iohn saith, christ did many other things, and saith not christ taught many other things. For this word doing, includeth teaching, talking, speaking, and all. As if a man would say/ Cryst prayed, preached, and taught/ this did he day and night. And therefore sith saint Iohnns hole book, was made not only of Crystes miracles but also of his doctrine & as well word as deed/ and than he saith in the very end of his book, that christ did many things more, whereof if all were written the world could not receive the books: why may not this be understanden of words and deeds and all/ but if Tyndale ween that the books would be the fewer if the doctrine were in them to.  
But now let us see whither of us two play the false iugeler/ I that tell you that every necessary point of belief is not written in saint johnns' gospel/ or Tyndale that would make you ween that what so ever ye find not written there, ye were not bounden to take it for any necessary point of faith. For else if Tyndale would grant that saint Iohn had not written in deed every necessary point of faith: then is it as good for Tyndale that saint Iohn say so, as that in deed it be so. Let us therefore leave disputing upon the word, and look upon the deed, and see whither it be so or not. If a man seek among the other evangelists: he shall find more necessary things than one left out in saint Iohn/ and in each of them somewhat that some other hath. And if a man look ferther in the book of faith, written in the hearts of Cristes' hole catholic church: he shall find some things that none of them all hath written, and yet necessary points of faith/ as I have showed you samples and shall.  
But now because of Tyndale/ let us take some one. And what thing rather than the last souper of christ, his maundy with his apostles/ in which he instituted the blessed sacrament of the altar, his own blessed body and blood. Is this no necessary point of faith? Tyndale can not deny it for a necessary point of faith/ & though it were but of his own false faith agreeing with Luther, Huskyn, or zuinglius. And he can not say that saint Iohn speaketh any thing thereof, specially not of the institution. Nor he can not say that saint Iohn speaketh any thing of the sacrament at all, sith that his sect expressly denieth that saint Iohn meant the sacrament in his words, where he speaketh expressly thereof in the vi chapter of his gospel.  
And thus ye see how wisely Tyndale sykketh with me in the sentence of saint Iohnns words/ when the thing that I intend thereby is proved by his deed.  
And yet because Tyndale will nothing allow but the word/ if he pull from that word of saint Iohn: I shall prove him the same purpose by the word of saint Iohnns master, our saviour christ himself/ and saint Iohn shall bear me record that it was christ that said it. For our saviour lo as witnesseth saint Iohn in the xvi chapter, 
johan. 16  said unto his disciples himself: I have yet many things to say to you, but ye can not bear them now/ but when that the spirit of truth is come, he shall teach you all truth.  
Lo here ye here our saviour say himself, that he left and would leave some things, and that great things, and therefore of likelihood necessary/ that they should not here till after his passion, that the holy ghost should come and teach them/ and well ye wot that saint Iohn endeth his book before. And therefore as for this authority of saint Iohn, that I laid in my dialogue: Tyndales answer wherein he calleth me a juggler, hath not yet juggled away the force/ but hath by his false cast of juggling, fetely conveyed himself out of the frying pan, fair into the fire.  
where as I show in my dialogue that it is not written in scripture that our lady was a perpetual virgin, and yet it is a necessary point to be believed: This is his answer thereto.   

Tyndale.  
And how bringeth he in the perpetual virgynite of our lady/ which though it be never so true, is yet none article of our faith to be saved by/ but we believe it with a story faith, because we see no cause reasonable to think the contrary.   

More.  
By this answer it appeareth well, that god be thanked he findeth not yet the people's devotion so far fallen from our lady/ that he dare be bold to say all that he thinketh. For else he would say more than he doth. And like as he forbiddeth folk to pray to her/ and specially mysselyketh her devout antem of Salue regina: so would he not fail if he saw the people frame all after his fantasy, to blaspheme her in this matter of another fashion/ as other of his fellows have done before his days.  
But now for the mean while he is content that men may think themself at liberty to believe it or not believe it as they list, as a thing of no necessity to be believed upon salvation of our souls. And full well he woteth, that though he say now that he can see no reason why to think the contrary: yet if he could bring us once in the mind that there is no apparel therein, he might afterward well enough tell us when he would the contrary/ and say that with better looking thereon, he hath now founden that Eluidius & other elder heretics of the same sewte, said therein very well, and that reason and scripture is with them/ and that saint austin and saint Hierome & all the remanaunt say wrong, because their part is not written in scripture.  
This will not Tyndale hereafter let to say when he list/ if he may make us ween in the mean while that we may choose whither we will believe this point or not.  
But I say that in that point Tyndale sayeth wrong. For in any such thing as we be bounden to believe/ if I believe it in deed, & yet believe therewith that I may lawfully choose whether I will believe it or not: I say that in so believing I believe nought, nor my belief shall not serve me.  
Then say I farther that this article is such, that we be bound to believe it. For he that believeth it not is an h●retyque/ as it plainly appeareth both by saint austin in his book to quod vult deus/ and by saint Hierome in his book against Helvidius/ and by the other holy saints and martyrs, who as saint Hierome & saint austin rehearse, did write against heretics before/ & called them Antidichomarians, that is to say Maries adversaries.  
Then say I finally that for as much as it well & plain appeareth, that all those holy cunning men and blessed saints/ & therewith all the whole catholic church bysyde, have ever hitherto taken the perpetual virginity of our blessed lady for so sure a point of christian faith and belief, that they have ever condemned the contrary for an heresy/ and then sith the article is not in holy scripture written, but that the words of scripture not well understanden, seem to say the contrary: I may & do against Tindale & his fellows well and fully conclude, that there is some thing necessary to be believed, and yet is not written in scripture. And so to my second argument, ye find his answer fond. For as for his story faith/ with only which he saith we believe this point: I shall touch it I trust in ●uch wise, & his feeling faith there with when I come thereto/ that every man shall feel with his fingers ends, that Tyndale feeleth neither faith, learning, reason, wit, nor grace. I alleged in my dialogue the words of saint P●ule to the Corynthies, where he writeth unto them of the holy housel: As our lord hath delivered it to me, so have I delivered it to you. To this doth Tyndale answer thus.   

Tyndale.  
And when he allegeth Paul to the Corinthies: I say that Paul never knew of this word mass/ neither can any man gather thereof any strange holy gestures, but the plain contrary/ and that there was no nother use there then to break the breed among them at supper, as Crist did. A and therefore he calleth it Cristes super and not mass.   

More.  
Here goth Tyndale about to juggle/ but his galleys be to great. I laid those words for none other cause, but to prove that the apostle before his writing taught them that great mystery by mouth/ and showed them the manner himself before his pistle written/ which he would not have written unto them at all, if he might then conveniently have been present with them. And now where I said that it was well likely, that of saint Poule by his present tradition was received holy gestures as the church useth in the consecration: he answereth me that there is no such thing there spoken in the pistle. which I said not there was/ but I say that he findeth no word in the pyst●e that proveth that saint Poule therein wrote every thing that he presently spoke or did. But it appeareth well that saint Poule speaketh of that thing in that chapter, not to put in writing all thing that he had before told them by mouth/ but only to put them in remembrance that the thing which they there received in the form of breed, though it were called breed, was yet in deed the very blessed body of christ. And for the more clear proof thereof: he put them in remembrance/ that as he had before showed them, our saviour himself told him so. And this he remembered them of by writing, to make them use themself there after the more reverently. For lack whereof he writeth to them, that sickness and death by the vengeance of god fell among them/ because they did not use such reverence & honour as they should do to the precious body and blessed blood of christ. And in that chapter saint Poule speaketh but of certain unreverent points in special/ and concludeth saying, caetera autem quum venero disponam/ the remanaunt or all the other things, I will myself order at my coming. Here may we see what so ever Tyndale say, that saint Poule bysyde this that he wrote of the sacrament, gave the people other traditions thereof by mouth (as I said in my dialogue) p●cteynynge to the reverence and honour thereof, and Tyndale sayeth here the contrary. But now let the book be judge/ and by that chapter judge also the false faith of Tyndale, that saith it is sin to do any honour to it.  
And where Tyndale saith that saint Poule never know this word mass, I believe that well enough/ for I never herd that he spoke any word of english. But that he knew not the thing that english men call the mass/ Tyndale hath not proved yet, nor will not do this week. For he must prove it better then by that saint Poule spoke of god's supper. For we call the houseling of the people god's board and Crystes table/ and yet we know the mass to for all that beside. And the apostles themself I doubt not said mass many a time & oft before any gospel written. And holy saint Chrysostheme sayeth that the apostles in the mass prayed for all christian souls.  
where as I said that of the apostles tradition was learned the manner of consecration: that answereth Tyndale in this wise.   

Tyndale.  
A great doubt/ as though we could not gather of the scripture how to do it.   

More.  
Surely men setting no more thereby than Tyndale and his fellows do: may gather out of the gospel or the pistle either, or out of what they will, the manner of the consecration, & saying of the mass that shall serve themself while they say it they care not how, & believe they care not what/ while they believe it to be none oblation, host, nor sacrifice/ nor the body nor blood of Criste to be in the sacrament/ nor that the mass doth any man good at all, save only to the pressed himself. For what care they how they say mass/ which the more sinful they be, and the more encumbered conscience that they have/ the more encumbered, & the more boldly as Luther biddeth in Babilonica● presume they to god's board. But undoubted who so have a reverent care thereof, and right faith of the sacrament/ well percey●eth that how to say mass hath been taught the apostles by the spirit of god, and by the apostles forth. And if Luther, frere Huskyn, zwinglius, Ty●dale, and Lambert, had never known it afore/ but should have taken the scripture in their hands, and each of them devise a manner of saying mass by himself: I dare well say for all Tyndales boast, each of them should have devised a sundry fashion, and yet never one of the right. For proof whereof Luther himself casting away the holy canon of the mass/ frameth after his fond fashion a manner of consecration and saying of the mass in his book of Babilonica. which foolish invention of his Rosseus impugneth and plainly proveth, that saving for the tradition of the church, Luther could never tell how or in what wise to consecrate or say mass/ and that the way that Luther deviseth is unsuffycyent and uncertain by Luther's own rule. And I doubt not but that Tyndale hath red both Rosseus and Luther in those places/ and therefore I marvel so much the more that he dare be so bold to say it/ when being himself but Luther's scholar, he seeth his master made a fool therein all ready.  
where as I in my dialogue allege, that the pressed in the consecration putteth water in to the wine, where as the scripture speaketh but of wine: thereto answereth Tyndale thus.   

Tyndale.  
A great doubt also and a perilous case if it were left out. For either it was done to slake the heat of the wine/ or put to after a ceremony, to signify that as the water is changed into wine, so are we changed thorough faith as it were into christ, and are one with him. How be it all is to their own shame, that aught should be done or used among us christian, whereof no man wist the meaning. For if I understood not the meaning/ it helpeth me not one corn .1. Corinth. 14. and as experience teacheth. But if our shepherds had been as willing to ●ede as to shear: we had needed no such dispycyence, ner they to have burnt so many as they have.   

More.  
where Tyndale saith in scorn (as he gladly scorneth always when he speaketh of the sacrament) that it were a great doubt and a perilous case to leave the water out: I am very sure that if there had be not doubt nor apparel to leave it out/ there was never good christian man that any reverence had to christ, but he would have put great doubt, & have thought it great apparel to put any water in. For what best would be so bold when he findeth not that christ in the consecration and change of the wine into his own blood, used any other thing than wyne● and spoke also himself of the only liquor of the grape: who durst I say have put thereto any thing else/ and to have consecrated his blood of wine and water. But one thing is there that maketh Tindale in this point so bold/ that is to wit his own spiritual rule that he so much boasteth of, in searching out the cause, and then ruling all thing by some cause of his own making. As here, he guesseth here two causes why the water is put in. And though he wot near whither of the twain is the truth/ yet he maketh himself sure that it must needs be the tone. And then reckoneth he the causes both twain so substantial/ that it maketh in his mind no matter why there the thing be done or undone.  
Luther was himself also so meshed in this matter, when the kings highness laid against him the putting of the water into the wine, that in his frantyke answer he fared as Tyndale doth here/ and not witting what to say thereto, began to guess at the cause wherefore it was put in: wherein he sought so far/ that at last he found, that whither it were in or out it made no matter, because he said it was a thing impertynent to the matter/ so that by him a man might put into the wine what he would beside. yet then found he further that it is evil done to put it in. For he said it had an evil signification/ and signified that the syncerite of scripture was watered with men's traditions. Lo so was he be wrapped therein, that he could not in this world wit what to say thereto/ but faring like a frantic fool, and answering this and that he wist near what nor at what point to hold him, finally fell to blasphemy. And now his good scolar Tyndale will be nothing a known of his masters folly, but divyneth and deviseth two new causes of his own brain/ and affirmeth that some one of those twain must needs be the very cause/ as though god himself could find no further cause than Tyndale hath searched out/ and than he thereupon concludeth, that they water may be as well left out as put in.  
But what so ever Tyndale say/ there was never good man yet this xu C. year that durst leave it out/ nor other wise use it than god hath taught his apostles with his own word unwritten otherwise then in christian hearts.  
Holy saints also have thought upon other causes. For some have thought that god ordained the water to be mingled with the wine, as the water welled out with the blood out of his blessed heart upon the cross. And holy saint Cyprian that cunning doctor and blessed martyr thereupon saith, that our saviour himself at the time of the institution of that blessed sacrament, did put water in to wine, though there was no mention made thereof in the writing/ no more than there was of divers other things that our saviour did as saint Iohn saith, & that he would have to be done in his church ever after. Of which things this infusion of water is one, taught undoubtedly by god to his apostles, and by them forth/ and so this xu hundred years continued in Crystes church without any mention thereof made in scripture, & yet men of necessity bound to observe it/ nor no man ever thought or durst think the contrary till now Luther and Tyndale and such other of their sorte● which set so little by that blessed sacrament, that they would have all honour and reverence taken from it, and reckoned for a bare sign set but only to signify, without any giving of grace/ and therefore they would have it homely handled how so ever men list. devise once some signification/ & then would those heretics by their wills, that in stead of wine and water, men would consecrate new ale in corns.  
Now where he saith that it is the shame of the clergy if aught be used among christian men, whereof no man wist the meaning: why more than for Moses to deliver and leave to the people many ceremonies commanded by god, whereof the people what so ever Tyndale say never understood the meaning. would the wise man that if god bid a man do a thing/ he shall say him nay but if he tell him why?  
Then fynysheth he this matter with a proper taunt, that if our shepherds were as willing to feed as to shear: we had needed no such dispicions/ nor they to have burned so many as they have.  
Lo the great fault that Tyndale findeth in that the prelate's do not as he doth, devise causes at adventure and warrant them for true/ nor leave out the water boldly upon his ghostly counsel now, against the faith of all faithful folk this xu hundred year before.  
And where he layeth that the slaknesse of feeding hath caused so many to be burned: I will not say nay but that it might have been better with some, if there had been used more diligence in preaching. But as f●r many such as have been burned/ all the pching in the world would not have helped their obstinacy. But sure if the prelate's had taken as good heed in time as they should have done: there should peradventure at length fewer have been burned thereby. But there should have been more burned by a great many then there have been within this seven year last passed. The lack whereof I fear me will make more burned within this seven year next coming/ then else should have needed to have been burned in seven score.  
where I alleged the change of the sabbaoth day into the sunday without scripture: thereto he answereth thus.   

Tyndale.  
As for the sabbaoth a great matter. We be lords over the sabbaoth day, and may yet change it into the monday, or any other day as we see need/ or may make every tenth day holiday only if we see a cause why. we may make two every week if it were expedient, and one not enough to teacke the people. Neither was there any cause to change it from the satterdaye, then to put difference between us and the jews/ and lest we should be come servants unto the day after their superstition. Neither needed we any holy day at all, if the people might be taught without it.   

More.  
Tyndale maketh the change of the sabbat day a very sleight matter. And because that our saviour said of himself, that the son of man, that is to wit he himself was lord of the sabbat day: therefore as though every man were god almighty his fellow, Tyndale saith that we be lords of the sabbat day, so that we may change the sunday into monday.  
He saith that there was never cause to change it fro saturday, but only to put a difference between us & the jews, and lest we should become servants unto the day after their superstition. But I think there was bysyde this another cause more principal than any of both those. For the jews and the christian had other differences and distinctions between them/ as baptism and circumcision. Nor it had not been so great inconvenience that they should both have served god on one day, that for the avoiding thereof we should have left the day that god himself appointed in the beginning. And also christian men both might have kept the same day that the jews kept, and yet have left the superstition thereof that the jews use. And may now also (as happily some do) keep the sunday with like superstition as the jews do the saturday. And therefore these causes be but divined and guessed at, and seem but very secondary. But the very cause of the change is/ that men were not the lords of the sa●batday, nor men were not the principal authors and makers of the change. But the son of man our saviour. christ himself, being (as he said himself) lord even over the sabbatday to/ and which as god had made and ordained the sabbatdaye for man and not man for the sabbatday, and yet nevertheless subdued man unto certain order of serving not the sabbatday but god upon the sabbatday: he I say himself when he delivered the people from the observance of the old law, did as lord of the sabbatday, discharge them of the sabbatday.  
And yet because they should not have such a lordly mind as Tyndale here teacheth us to have/ as to think they might at their pleasure take what day they would, and make and break as they list: he appointed them himself and his own holy spirit, the day of his own resurrection. which glorious rising of his blessed body not only to rest, but also to eternal glory: it pleased him to have weakly celebrate with the resting day drawn from wordly business, to the desire of heaven & acceptable service of god. And for this is it and ever hath been specially called our lords day. whereof to say that we be now the lords and able to change it to friday for our pleasure, or turn it to every tenth day when we list: I ween that none will say so but lurdanes, that longed to make gaudies of god's passion, or make him honoured selder than he should. For as for need/ fell there never none such yet, to change this day that christ hath ordained himself. And he is as able to keep it from such need of change for ever here after/ as he hath kept it this xv. hundred year before.  
If Tyndale stykke still in this point/ & say the church made it and the church may break it: I say that the church as it made it so it may break it. That is to wit that as it made it by the spirit of god, so it may break it by the same spirit. That is to say that as god made it, so himself may break it, if it so shall please him. For in such things though the church have ordained it: yet hath the church not done it but the spirit of god/ as holy saint austin saith in the receiving of ou● housel, where he saith that it hath pleased the holy ghost, that where as in the beginning it was received after other meats, it should be now received of folk while they be fasting.  
And in like wise the apostles, to give us knowledge that though the church make the ordinance, yet the spirit of god is the worker thereof: wrote as is remembered in the xu of the acts: It hath pleased the holy ghost and us, & so forth showed what laws they had made/ declaring thereby that though themself made them, yet made they them not with out the motion of gods holy spirit. And never shall the whole catholic church, neither make without god nor break again without him. But he shall with his presence and his holy spirit, so guide and govern his church in such manner of things/ that they shall not chaung● change the sunday neither of lordly mynde● pleasure, nor necessity. Nor I think he shall never suffer the church to change it. But it is a change ones so made and established by our saviour himself, that as the saterdaye was ordained by god himself to stand unchanged till christ came/ so is Crystes day so ordained by himself that it shall stand unchanged till himself come again, & change all the week and all the year to into one eternal day without either week or year. And this change hath he made I say fro saterdaye to sunday himself without scripture/ which we be bounden without scripture obedyentely to keep and observe, what so ever Tyndale babble and scoff against it.  
For where Tyndale saith that we be such lords over it, that we may change and make our sabbatdaye as well upon any other day as upon the sunday: I would wit of him which we? whither the hole catholic church or every pertyculare province/ and if so, than every diocese/ and by the same reason, every parish by itself/ and then any household/ and finally any one man is by himself at the same liberty to keep for his own sabbat day which day he list himself, and need not to come to church with other but when there is a sermone. And then ye wot well this way would do well. Now if he mean by we, all we the hole church of christ by a comen consent: then must he tell us which is it, and then must he needs assign a known church. where is then becomen his heresy of their secret unknown church of elects and penitents without penance?  
And where he saith we need none holydaye at all if the people might be taught without it: this is one draught of his poison put forth under the sweet pretext of preaching. whereby sith preaching is necessary/ he would make men believe that coming to church on the holiday, or there to honour god with divine service and prayer, were but a thing of nought/ where as the apostles came themself in to the temples in the holidays to pray. And our saviour allegeth himself the words of Esay: 
Esaiae .51.  My house shall be called the house of prayer.  
Now where as I alleged in my dialogue the words of saint paul unto the Thessalonycenses, to whom he writeth in this wise: keep you my traditions which I have taken you, either by word or letter: to this doth Tyndale answer nothing to me, but this.   

Tyndale.  
I have to that answered Rochester in the obedience/ that his traditions were the gospel that he preached.   

More.  
In very deed Tyndale in his book of disobedience laboureth sore to wade out of those words of saint Poule/ in which as my lord of Rochester said, it appeareth plain that saint Poule saith himself that he taught things by mouth which he wrote not. And what saith Tyndale to it there? he saith nothing else in this world but as he saith here/ that the things which saint Poule taught by mouth, were the self same things that he wrote. And then goeth he forth with a long babelary, part to no purpose & part plain heresy/ and fareth as though himself had standen by all the while that saint Poule taught any thing by mouth. Now whither his w●rdes be to purpose or not/ I pray you consider yourself.  
we say that these sacraments and many holy ceremonies used in the church in the mass and in other parts of divine service/ were taught by the spirit of god and delivered by his blessed apostles. Nay saith Tyndale that could not be/ for all necessary things that they taught they wrote. Prove that say we and take all. But we will prove by saint Paul's own words, that he taught things that he wrote not. For he biddeth the Thessalonicensis keep and observe well all that he had taught them, either by mouth or letters/ & then that none of them were any necessary points, that point we bid Tindale prove. His proof therein ye have herd before/ that if the apostles wrote not all such things, what could it avail that they wrote any things at all. And that reason ye remember that we have answered before/ and proved it a great folly, to reckon that in our own realm no law bindeth that is unwritten, because there be many written/ or that their writing were unprofitable that wrote us part, because they wrote us not all. But now in that place of the obedience, where the rude ribald raileth against the reverend father my lord bishop of Rochester: he saith stiffly that none of those things which we speak of, and specially sacraments or ceremonies, were any of those things that saint Paul taught by mouth. Then ask we him whereby know you that. Mary sayeth he, for I shall tell you what he taught. He taught the same that he wrote/ and his traditions were the gospel that he preached/ and good manners and virtues, and some good custumes to, that be sins for abuses changed, as ●ys●ynge each other. And some he taught as precepts, and some as good counsels/ as virginity, and wydolye chastity, not to ●ynne heaven thereby (For neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is any thing at all, but the keeping of the commandments is all together) but that they might be without trouble, and the better wait on God's words, and the frelyer serve their brethren.  
Here I pass by his heresies, that in these words appear both against virginity and wydoly chastity/ which he meaneth to be nothing worth as touching any reward to be given for them in heaven. For though he say no ferther here but that they win not heaven, which every man agreeth: yet meaneth he ferther as he declareth in many other places/ and as it here appeareth by his ensample of circumcision. I let pass also his heresy concerning the circumcision, which with his false understanding of saint Poule, he would have taken ●o have standen in no stead at all toward heaven/ and by the same reason no more he would that baptism neither, as he hath oftentimes declared.  
I let pass also/ that by those words of saint Poule which himself now bringeth in, that the keeping of the commandments is all together, his own heresies be over thrown. For if the keeping of the commandments be all together/ then faith alone is not all together. But rather as he maketh circumcision nothing, because the commandments be all: so might he make faith nothing because the commandments be all together. But he maketh saint Paul's words to serve him for his juggling stykke. For saint Poule meaneth of circumcision alone in the old law, with faith and good works/ as saint jamys speaketh of faith. And in the new law now it is nothing at all in deed.  
These words also of saint Poule destroy Tyndales heresy, that men's good works be not rewarded in heaven/ and that it is idolatry to serve god with any bodily works, or to do any of them to come the rather to heaven. For if the keeping of the commandments be all together/ and some of them be bodily works: a man may lawfully do them for God's sake, and to his worship to, and have his reward in heaven to.  
But now letting these points pass as I say: I would ask Tyndale whither among those points that saint Poule taught by mouth, & which he wrote not/ were any things necessary to be believed or done, upon apparel of our soul's health. If he say ne: then destroyeth he his whole reason that he made afore for the contrary/ where he said that if the apostles taught any such things & wrote them not, what availeth all those things that they wrote. If he say nay/ but that all the things that he taught by mouth, were things of little weight, and not worth the writing/ and that therefore he wrote unto the Corinthyes that all the other things he would dispose and ordain himself at his coming, because he reckoned them not worthy to occupy place in his pistle: if Tyndale tell us this, we will ask him who told him so/ and whereby he knoweth that saint Poule taught the people by mouth, no more things, nor of none other kind than Tyndale saith he did. was himself at that time companion to saint Poule/ and that so continual and so unseparable, that day nor night he never departed from him/ but ever watched him so surely, that he could never say nothing but Tyndale stood by and herd him?  
Tyndale in this point well perceiveth himself, how hard a part he hath to prove. And therefore saying that he hath entrede a matter that he can not end/ & hath said that he can never make good: at last he waxeth angry. And because he can not tell all thing that saint Poule taught, as he began to take upon him: he concludeth nothing but that saint Poule taught none of the sacraments nor ceremonies that Luther and he reprove. And thus he saith.   

Tyndale.  
But that the apostles gave us any blind ceremonies, whereof we could not know the reason/ that I deny and also defy.   

More.  
Forsooth save for the rhyme I would not give a ryshe, neither for his denying nor for his defying, nor for any reason that he layeth forth therefore.  
For where he saith that it is contrary to the learning of saint Poule every where: I say that therein Tindale saith not true. For saint Poule reproved but the superstyciouse trust that the jews had, as well in their ceremonies & sacraments, as in the works of their law without faith and justice and deeds of charity/ and the superstition 〈◊〉 them also that thought themself bounden of necessity to keep them still after the new law promulgate and spread about/ when the time of those old ceremonies, sacraments, iudycyalles, & all was gone/ saving for as farforth as the church of christ by the spirit of god hath taken up any a●ayne. But let Tyndale bring of saint Poule all the places that he possible can/ and he shall never find one while he liveth among them all, in which saint Poule reproveth any sacrament or ceremony taken up and accounted for good thorough Crystes whole catholic church/ nor yet the jews for using the ceremonies given by god to Moses, and by Moses to them for the time while they served, though they knew not the significations/ except it were for lack of some other virtue, which they left of & wrought not for/ and thereby lost the fruit of their ceremonies at all.  
One other thing he saith which he taketh for an high point, to prove that saint Poule taught no ceremonies or sacraments, but such as h● taught also their significations. And that he proveth thus.   

Tyndale.  
Paul commandeth that no man ones speak in the church that is the congregation, but in a tongue that all men understnade/ except that there be an interpreter by.   

More.  
And what than? At such time as the law was given first to the children of Israel/ it was in deed written in a tongue that the people understood. But yet the ceremonies though they were written in the same tongue, yet were there many of them that the people never understood what they meant, nor peradventure Moses' neither/ and yet were they bounden of obedience to observe them/ and their obedience was fruitful to, but if that some other fault made it lose the fruit.  
And therefore where Tyndale telleth a long tale that saint Paul commandeth them to labour for knowledge, under ●tadynge, feeling/ and beware of hypocrosye, ceremonies, and all manner of disguising, and many such words more, some of saint Poule & some of his own planted in among them: his tale seemeth somewhat solemn, but it is nothing substantial. For the sacraments a●d ceremonies given by god unto 〈◊〉 church, be neither hypocrisy nor iudaycall ceremonies, nor dysguysynges neither/ which word Tyndale setteh in himself in scorn as it seemeth of the blessed sacrament of the altar. Nor saint Poule though he would have them labour for knowledge/ meaneth not yet they shall leave the sacraments unserved which god hath taught, till he teach them the knowledge why he taught them, and what special signification every sacrament & ceremony had.  
For where as Tyndale rymeth it out, and saith that he both denieth and also defyeth, that the apostles taught any ceremony whereof the reason could not be known: for all his denying and also defying, a better man than the apostles did, our saviour christ himself, when he sent is dy●cyples forth to baptize and to preach/ he taught them how they should go and what they should do, but the reason and cause of every ceremony that find we not that ever he taught them/ but at some of them he suffered both them then, and us ever sins, to guess and to divine.  
For that he would have them neither bear walet, nor satchel, nor shone upon their ●●te, nor stick in their hand, nor salute any man by the way, nor why he chose water and baptism in stead of circumcision, nor why he would they should lay their hands upon some sick folk whom they should hele, nor why they should anoint sick folk with oil & hele them by that mean: the causes I say and the proper significations of all these ceremonies and many other, we find not that our saviour when he sent them showed them/ and yet he bode them do it, and they were bound to obey and merited and deserved by their obedience. Much more than he should have done, who so would have said, tell me first good lord why may I not put on my shone, why may I not take a stykke in mine hand, what art thou the better thought I go bare foot, what shall it hurt the matter though I bear a stykke, why were it not as good to smear a sick man with butter as anoint him with oil/ tell me the causes of all those things and the proper signification ere I go. For else to say that I will be sent out with such dumb ceremonies, whereof I know not the causes, that I deny and also defy. He that thus should have said like Tyndale/ should have gotten little thank.  
And as I have before somewhat say●e/ almighty god taught many ceremonies to Moses, and he forth to ●he people/ and neither can Tyndale nor any man elips prove me by scripture, that the people vuderstode all their significations/ no nor Moses neither. And where is then Tyndales worshipful rhyme, that I deny and also defy?  
I let pass all the ceremonies taught about the arch, the temple, the sacrifices, and many other things/ & will wit but how Tyndale can prove me that the children of Israel, or as I say Moses either, understood all the ceremovyes commanded by god about their departing out of Egypte? why a lamb, why a kid, why of one year, why without spot, why taken the ten day, why offered the xiiii, why the vengauns of god put fro the house at the token of the blood put upon the posts, why eaten by night, why none left till the morrow, but rather the remanant burnt, why unleavened breed, why wild lettuce. I know well god wist why he commanded all those ceremonies/ but I say Tyndale can not prove that the people understood them all, nor peraduentnre that Moses neither.  
If Tyndale yet say that the people understood all those ceremonies: I will first bid him prove me that point by scripture. And then for some lykelyhed toward a proof of the contrary/ I will lay forth for authority against wyllyam Tyndale, the words of one man whom Tyndale would were most believed of all men/ that is to wit the words of wyllyam Tyndale himself. For himself saith in his book against me.   

Tyndale.  
christ axed the apostles Matth. xv, whom they took him for. And Peter answered for them all/ saynge● I say that thou art christ the son of the living god, that art come into this world. That is, we believe that thou art he that was promised unto Abraham, should come and bless us and deliver us. How be it Peter yet wist not by what means. But now it is opened thorough out all the world, that thorough the offering of his body and blood.   

More.  
Now sith as Tyndale saith himself, saint Peter at the time did not know by what mean christ should redeem us/ and it is very likely that saint Peter all be it he was not yet fully learned, did yet at the time going to school with christ, understand as much at the lest wise as the comen people did even in Moses' days: I think therefore the Tyndale should himself agree contrary to that himself hath said before, that the people understood not all the ceremonies. And yet I think he will not say that they might at that time leave all such undone/ and say as Tyndale saith, all that utterly we deny and also defy.  
I would fain wit wherefore Tyndale should take it for so strange, that god or his apostles should give unto Crystes church any ceremonies, whereof they should not understand the reason/ when he seeth well that god hath spoken to his people many words by his prophets and his own son, and his sons apostles to, and caused them to be written also in holy scripture/ in which texts men be no more sure of the very sentence then of the very signification of those ceremonies. But god hath not without our fruit left such things unknown unto us, to quykken & exercise as saint austin saith some men's minds in the study and devising thereupon/ which if all were open and plain, would wax negligent and dull/ and now in the devising thereupon, find out good and fruitful things, allegories and other, not affirming those to be the very things there intended ●ut things that devoutly & fruitfully may be thereon taken and turn men to devotion, and this as well in the ceremonies as in those hard and not intellygyble texts. And if Tyndale deny this/ because he would seem sure of all thing, and that there were no place in scripture to him not understanden: he shall while he would seem so wise, prove himself a fool in the judgement of all men, that any thing labour in scripture. And thus ye see now in what substantial wise that Tyndale hath answered my lord of Rochester, unto the plain words of saint Poule written unto the Thessalonycenses/ by which words he showeth plainly himself, that he wrote not all that he taught. And then that these things which Tyndale impugneth, why that they might not be among those things that saint Poule taught by mouth/ ye have herd I say how wourshypfully Tyndale hath proved.  
I were loath to leave untouched any thing that Tyndale any where sayeth against my purpose in this matter. And therefore sith I find in his answer to my dialogue yet another patch, wherein I perceive he taketh great pleasure/ and weeneth or would at the lest that other men should ween, that he had therewith utterly proved his part and clearly reproved mine: I will withdraw none of his glory, and therefore ye shall here that to. In his answer to the xxix chapter of my first book these are his words.   

Tyndale.  
In the xxix chapter M. More allegeth, that christ s●yed not the 〈◊〉 ghost shall write, but shall teach. It is not the use to say t●● holy 〈◊〉 writeth/ but inspireth the writer.   

More.  
Properly answered, if I would hold my peace. But I must put Tyndale again in remembrance because he believeth nothing but scripture, and then draweth all the scripture into god's promises: I must therefore I say put him in remembrance that I brought in that authority to show him that god made no promise that he would write all his new testament, nor cause it to be made all in books/ but that he would send his holy ghost to teach his church & to lead them into every troth. And where Tyndale saith it is not the use to say the holy ghost writeth but inspireth the writer/ I say again that the scripture letteth not to speak of gods writing/ & to tell how he will write his new testament when he saith by the mouth of the prophet Hieremy: I shall give my law in their bowls/ & I shall write it in their hearts. 
Hi●r●m. ●1.   
Lo here he telleth what manner of writing he will use in writing of his new law/ because we shall not excuse ourself & say, that we will not believe no more thereof than we shall find written in books. He maketh us no promise that he will cause it to be written in books/ but pursuing these words of the prophet, he said himself his own mouth● that he would send the holy ghost to come teach his church & lead them in to every troth. To this will Tyndale happily say in the word he meant and so did the prophet also, that he would write it in the hearts of the evangelists and apostles and teach them & lead them ●nto every troth/ which should put all the necessary troth in writing. Let Tyndale prove this meaning by some one text of scripture, or some one necessary reason/ of which neither himself, nor any other of his fellows have founden any one yet. And the words as well of the prophet as of our saviour himself, declare themself to the contrary. For the prophet and the evangelist say 
E●●iae .54 Io●annis. ●.  that they shallbe all gods own scholars/ which signifieth that the congregation and company shall be taught by god and his spirit, that shall write the new law the right faith in the hearts of his church. And our saviour said, I shall send the holy ghost that shall teach you all thing, and lead you into every troth. He said not the holy ghost shall teach some of you that shall write it out unto the remanant. And therefore Tyndales comely gloze will not so substantially serve him, as he would have it seem. For as that holy spirit inspired more than them that wrote/ so inspired he the writers in more things than they wrote/ which things they taught by mouth, and left it with the people by tradition as god left it with them/ which thing doth by their own words well appear johannis xxj, ad Thessalonicenses, 
2. Thess. 2.  ad Corynthios xj And if these plain texts seem not yet sufficient for our part/ let him and all his fellows bring forth some half text half so sufficient for their, part proving that all is written and take all together.  
But yet goth he farther and would seem of his courtesy to help me somewhat forth, & say more than I could for mine own part/ and yet avoid it to. For thus he saith.   

Tyndale.  
I marvel that he had not brought as many of his brethren do, Matthew in the last/ where christ commanded the apostles to go and teach all nations, and said not write.   

More.  
In deed this would have been well brought in there/ and many of my brethren have as he saith brought it in, & myself also some where else in places more than one/ which I now boast of, because ye shall see that Tyndale hath not yet so gaily answered it as to make me ashamed to lay it forth again. For if he could bring out one text so good for him, as that is for us/ that is to say, that like as my brethren find out that text by which christ biddeth all his apostles go preach and teach his gospel: so if Tyndale or any of his brethren could● find out any text, in which christ had boden any of them go write his gospel/ lord god how solemnly Tyndale would set it out to the show? And where as he now maketh little a do of Crystes word, bidding them go preach: he would make much a do of his word, bidding them go write. But now ye shall see what answer he maketh, & what he bringeth for the shoot anchor of all his shift/ to prove that they wrote every necessary point.   

Tyndale.  
I answer that this precept, love thy neighbour as thyself, and god above all thing/ went with the apostles and compelled them to seek god's honour in us, and to seek all means to continued the faith unto the worlds end. Now the apostles knew before that heresies should come/ and therefore wrote that it might be a remedy against heresies as it well appeareth Iohn xxi where he saith these are written that ye believe, and thorough bylyfe have life. And in the second of his first pistle he saith: these I writ because of them that deceive you. And Peter and Paul there to, warn us in many place. Wherefore it is manifest that the same love compelled them to leave nothing unwriten, that should be necessarily required/ and that if it were left out should hurt the soul.   

More.  
Lo now have ye heard his uttermost, whereby he proveth us that they wrote all together that is of necessity to be known. which he proveth not as ye see by any scripture proper for the point/ as that any of them had any special commandment to write: but that their charity drove them to it. which he proveth by a deduction upon this commandment, love god above all thing, and thy neighbour as thyself. For thereupon as he deduced afore that women may sing mass, and must in time of need: so he deduceth now that the apostles were by the same charity driven by their writing, to provide against heresies which they saw should come/ and that could they not sufficiently do, but if they provided a like against all heresies, ergo they wrote every necessary troth. This argument is god wot full poor, sick, and sore/ & might sit at saint Savyons a begging with a dish and a clapper, for any thing that it can help it self/ it is so blind and lame & lacketh so many limbs/ & yet hath it one the more for me that Tyndale forgot to set in. But yet lacketh he both his legs for all that, and his yien, and his hands, and his brain to. For he must set in, that they which wrote, knew well every heresy, that ever should spring after their days, and this must he prove by scripture.  
He must also set in, that no more of the apostles knew that point but only those that wrote: or else that the t'other could not write nor god could not teach them/ or finally that each of them red others writing, and so saw that all was written by their fellows/ & then carried all their fellows writing with them into the countries where themself preached, and left it there. And this must he prove me by scripture/ for else he saveth not upperyght the charity of saint Andrew nor saint Bartholomew, that wrote nothing at all nor of saint Peter in writing less than saint Poule/ nor of saint Iohn for leaving out the consecration at Crystes maundye.  
He must also put in that they saw that without writing god could not keep the points of faith among the people/ for else the charity strained them not of necessity so sore to put all together in writing.  
He must also put in, that all their writing is kept & reserved safe, and ever shall till the day of doom/ for else he seeth what followeth. And then knoweth he well that beside corruption of books, much thereof is lo●te/ but if he will say that in that scripture was nothing necessary, but that it is in this the remaineth. And then must he prove me that by scripture ere I believe him. And over this must he put in, that they have written all thing as clear as they might have done to answer all heretics withal/ for the thing longed to charity to, if of charity their purpose was to write against all heresies.  
And yet which I had almost forgotten, he must put in to, this argument also, that they have given us warning that they have written all together that either than needed, or at any time after should need to be believed or done, upon pain of deadly sin. For this is one of the very chief points of all/ & therefore this must he prove by scripture. For else they left us in danger to believe some other things more than they write/ namely synnies the some wrote not so much as their fellows, sum confess that they taught by mouth more than they wrote/ and some wrote nothing at all/ and of that the other wrote, good part lost/ and of that writing that remaineth, some corrupted by writers, some by prenters, and much so hard that no man understandeth.  
And finally must he put in to this argument also, that after their days christ would never show nor reveal any thing to his church more/ nor bid any of them any other thing believe or do then was put in writing all ready by his apostles/ or else that though he would bid them any further thing at any time after either believe or do: yet would he never be angry with them though they would neither believe that he told them, nor do that he bode them/ but tell him well and plainly to his teeth, that if he would be believed or obeyed, he should have made his apostles write it. This point specially must Tyndale among other prove me by plain and evident scripture. For else were it ye wot well a great apparel for any man to say nay to God's special bidding/ though that special bidding were not specified in scripture/ but if god have plainly spoken in scripture that he will never while he liveth, either tell or bid any other thing than he hath all ready revealed or commanded in scripture.  
Now see you good readers how sick, how sore and how feeble his argument is/ by which he would prove us that the charity of the apostles drove them to put all necessary things in writing. But yet had there almost one reason of his passed me unware/ which if I had left untouched, Tyndale would have said I had dissymyled● and left unanswered his chief reason of all. For where as his feeble argument before touched, was but the cause that drove the apostles to leave nothing unwritten: he hath yet one, that showeth the cause why and wherefore god would himself have every necessary thing written, and that ye wot well must needs be strong/ and therefore what strength is in it ye shall here. Thus he saith.   

Tyndale.  
Now sir god hath made his lazy ●nd everlasting testament, and no more behind than the appearing of christ again. And because he will not stir up every day a new prophet with a new miracle, to confirm new doctrine, or to call again the old that was forgotten: therefore were all things necessary to salvation comprehended in scripture ever to endure.   

More.  
If Tyndals bare word be worthy to be taken for so great authority, that what so ever he say men must believe it, only because Tyndale saith it: then is this argument very sure and strong/ but than it is superfluous & a great deal to long. For than it should suffice him to say, the apostles have left all thing in writing, and let all his reasons alone. But surely if Tyndale be no better than other men/ so that as he will believe no man without plain scripture, no man without plain scripture is bound to believe him: then is this argument more feeble yet then the t'other. For he shall never make it strong, neither by plain scripture, nor good deduction, nor necessary consequense, nor any probable reason.  
For first how proveth he that all thing is open. How proveth he that he understandeth every place in scripture? every place in genesis, every place in the prophets, every place in the Psalter, every place in saint johnns' gospel, every place in saint Paul's pistles, every place in the Apocalipsys. Be all these things open to Tyndale? Is any man so mad to believe him therein upon his word, because he boldly saith in many places of his ungracious books, that the scripture is easy to understand/ which thing he sayeth of an ungracious mind, to make every simple person bold to take himself for and interpreter.  
But I dare be as bold to say that the scripture; all be it many places be plain, & in the hardest place good folk may take fruit if they play not as Tyndale doth, be bold upon it like blind bayard, & think it plain & open/ yet is it not so open but that there is many a place in every part thereof, so dark, & of such diffyculty/ that there neither is nor I ween never was sins the apostles days, nor ꝑaduenture every man among them neither, that durst have been so bold to say that all thing was so open to him/ but that there may lie yet therein for all the understanding the men have thereof, many a great mystery hid that never shallbe clearly understanden/ till such time as god upon the thing done and showed, shall by his spirit promised, sent, and assy●tent unto his church in the times convenient, and by god appointed thereunto, reveal it/ which things shall then be necessary points, to be believed, and now neither necessary to believe, nor possible to be thought upon.  
But when it shall please god any such things to do, show, & reveal: he shall then send no Luther's, nor no Tyndales, nor none Huskyns, nor no frere out of a nuns bed to preach it/ but he shall send such holy messengers as he hath been ever wont about such besyn●sse to send, that shall not come with a false faith, and evil works, and be accursed out of Crystes church/ but with the true catholic faith, and holy living, and reverent handling of holy scripture, and some of them with many great miracles confounding the false wonders of Antecriste/ as the miracles that Moses wrought confounded the marvels that were wrought by the witchcraft of the Egypciane jugglers. And he shall not send such fond fellows as would be so shameless without any miracle showed, to bid all the world believe them upon their bare word, in the understanding of holy scripture, against all holy saints and cunning doctors of xu hundred year passed/ and bear men in hand that all is open and plain, and prove it by nothing else but by that there is no place of holy scripture so hard, but that themself can expone it in such wise that it shall serve them shameful for jesting and railing against god and all good men, against all good works, against all religion, fasting, prayer, devotion, saints, ceremonies, and sacraments/ & to set forth vice in boldness of faith, and to praise lechery between freres and nuns, and call it matrimony, and thus make mocks of holy scripture solemnly, with such open shameless abominable blasphemy, that if the zeal of god were among men that should be, such railing rybaldes that so mock with holy scripture, should at every such exposition have an hot iron thrust thorough their blasphemous tongues.  
Such false prophets shall god as I say send none of his errand. But Tyndale can not prove it true that he saith, that all thing is yet so fully finished, but that the time may come when god may yet show things whereof we yet nothing think, and yet peradventure written of in the scripture/ and may if he list do and show also more things yet, whereof nothing is written for any word that is written to the contrary. And that bysy●e Crystes own appearing at the doom, there yet resteth some reckonings to come/ well & plainly appeareth by scripture both concerning Tyndales great Master antichrist, though Tyndale & Luther list lewdly to rail with those holy places of scripture/ and also concerning Ennoke and Hely. And therefore where Tyndale saith,   

Tyndale.  
Because all is done save the doom, and because god will not steer up every day a new prophet with a new miracle, to confirm new doctrine or to call again the old that was forgotten: therefore were all things necessary to salvation comprehended in scripture even to endure.   

More.  
Lo now have we herd him say it/ & now lack we no more but even to hear him prove it. For when Tyndale proveth not that the thing is so done in deed/ but layeth us only the causes for which he saith god caused it to be done: in this doth he nothing elliss but tell us what god should have done if he had taken him to counsel.  
Tyndale proveth not that god hath showed him that all is done save only the day of doom/ which he must prove or else we will deny it him. Nor he proveth not that god hath showed him that he would not star up if need were every day a new prophet, and that with new miracles to, rather than bind himself that he should never teach any thing more, or have his old doctrine forgotten either. which thing he must prove, or else will we deny it him/ sith god hath taken more labour and greater pain for his church then that. For he hath shed his blood for it, and might do all that with the least word of his mouth.  
And we say also that god hath daily stired up & daily doth star up new prophets in sundry parts of his catholic church, holy doctors, and preachers, and faithful men● and good livers/ for whom both quick and deed he doth show miracles in his catholic church, and thereby approveth the faith and works that they lived and died in, as he stirred up prophets among the jews in sundry ages for all the miracles done by Moses'/ and doth not so for no church of heretics.  
Nor he proveth not that the points of faith must needs have fallen away, but if they had been written. which thing he must prove us/ for else will we boldly deny it, and go near to prove the contrary. For we see that the church hath kept diverse things without scripture this xiii C. year, and as it is thought ii C. year afore/ and is yet as likely to keep it as many more, and twice as many more if the world last so long.  
Now have they be kept so long either by man, or by the devil, or else by god. And if Tindale say that either man or devil have kept them all this while: we may be bold to tell him that then was god as able to keep them, as was any of those both/ and needed no more scripture thereto, then needed either man or devil.  
Tyndale proveth us not neither that when the things were written they were thereby sure as he saith to endure for ever. For he proveth not by scripture that the scripture shall endure for ever. For though the scripture say that the word of god shall last for ever, and that there shall not thereof the lest letter be lost: yet is that meant of the son of god and of the matter, & of the word unwritten, and not of the words written in scripture/ except none of saint Paul's epistles be lost, or that such as be lost was no scripture, or that in those pistles were no letters.  
Nor Tyndale hath not proved that the scripture is so clearly written, but that god needeth as well to star up prophets with miracles for the declaration of the troth thereof, while the false expositors be so contencyouse/ as he should have needed for the teaching, keeping, and confirmation of the points of faith unwritten. And as I before said even so he doth. And thus ye see that these words are to Tyndale very little worth. But than sayeth he farther.   

Tyndale.  
By the scripture the counsels general, and not by open miracle, have concluded such things as were in them determined/ as stories make mention.   

More.  
Let Tyndale bring forth one story that sayeth as he saith, and then ●ette him tell us the tale again. I make myself very sure, that he shall find no story that shall say that the general counsels in their conclusions, regarded no miracles but only scripture. For he shall find in the stories that the good holy fathers that were in diverse of the general counsels (of whom there be many that all christen people honour and worship for saints) had many things to move them to determine and conclude against heretics/ of which things the scripture was one and was not all.  
For when the Arrianes and the catholics were in debate upon the understanding of the scriptures (as the catholics be with these heretics now) the catholics did not only see then that the heretics wrested & miss construed the scripture (as we see that these heretics much more miss wrest it now) but they saw also that the comen faith of the catholic church, was received & believed before that heresy bygon/ and being very sure by the promise of god, that if that faith had been false the spirit that god sent unto his church, would never have suffered the catholic church, the corpse of christian people, the mystical body of christ, of fall into that belief/ they were thereby with that faith written by the finger of god in their christian hearts, very sure that the Arrianes were heretics/ and so should they have been though never word of scripture had been written/ and should have concluded against the Arrianes in like wise as they did.  
They saw also that god did miracles in his catholic church, and suffered none among the Arrianes/ saving in the taking of vengeance upon them to their pain and shame, as when Arri●s guts fell out of his belly into the draft/ (as we daily see that he doth, and ever shall see that he shall do in his catholic church/ and suffereth none to be done among all the scoulkes of heretics, nor never shall suffer till the doom near approach, but only in detecting their wickedness and bringing them to the fire/ as our lady by miracle brought Berquyne of late at Parise) this thing undoubtedly not a little confirmed the faith, & made the church boldly conclude against the Arrians. And this things appeareth well in stories very old and autentyque. And Tyndale shall I am sure never bring us forth his stories, saying that the general counsels had no regard to miracles. And if he will say that the stories tell that there was none open miracles done at the general counsels. yet I ween shall he find none such stories neither. And if he will say that the stories do not tell of any open miracles done at the general coonsayles/ them shall he tell us a tale to little purpose. For surely so many as were showed bysyde, it was a thing that needed not. But than goeth he farther and saith.   

Tyndale.  
And by the same scriptures we know which counsels were true and which false.   

More.  
This is a pratye point lo. For now may ye see for what cause he saith that the general counsels made their determinations by scripture and not by miracle/ because he would have it seem that there were nothing of god's spirit working with the general counsales, but only the wit and affections of men/ so that he would as appeareth plainly by this word, have them serve all of nought, but every heretic left at liberty to say nay to them all.  
For he saith that by the scripture we know which of those counsels were true and which false. But where he saith we know: I would wit of him which we he meaneth/ which of his hundred new sects he calleth his we. For they agree so evil together, that the thing which the tone saith that by the scripture he knoweth for true, the t'other saith that by the scripture he knoweth for false.  
Tyndales master Mar●en Luther and all the sects in Almaigne, call for a general counsel. Now would I wit to what purpose, if all that were concluded therein should be never the surer/ but that every froward fool may as well after as he might before, say that he knoweth by scripture that the counsel was false, and all that was determined therein was nought. Thus might an Arryan an errant heretic say now, that he knoweth by scripture that all was false that was determined in the counsels against the Arrians of old. Saint Poule will that when one speaketh/ the remanant that is the hole congregation shall judge. As yet at this day if a preacher preach heresy/ god hath by the faith written in christian men's hearts, made the people able to know him for nought/ except it be a false preacher with a false company, willingly drawn together, and fallen from the church/ which false preacher and his company is ever able to be judged by the hole church remaining still in the formare faith. And now will father Tyndale that every obstinate heretic, every prateling fool, every smaterer in scripture/ shall be judge over all the general counsels, and over all the hole corpse of christendom, to tell them all that himself understandeth the scripture better than they all. Is not this we●e ye a godly wise way? Then goeth he ferther yet and saith.   

Tyndale.  
And by the same scripture shall we if any new question arise, determine it also. For Abraam answered the rich man: They have Moses and the prophets, let them here them/ and said not, they have the scribes and the pharisees, whom they should here preaching out of the seat of their own doctrine without scripture.   

More.  
I had little went that Tyndale would have brought in this point of Abraam, Lazarus, and the rich glutton in hell. For Tyndale seeth well enough that though that same lazar was not raised by Abraam, and sent unto those folk at his request: yet was another Lazare raised afterward by christ, & sent among men again at good folks request/ where though he came for the glory of god and for the show of the godhead of his only son/ yet is it no doubt but though his words be not written, he did in that point also much good unto men of the mean sort/ though some such as were obdurate in malice, as were some pharisees, or drowned in the credence of their false sect as were some saducees, believed no more him then Moses/ but in that point mysconstred the tone and mokked or hated the t'other.  
And Tindale seeth also full well, that those words of Abraan nothing touch the new testament, nor nothing that this question hangeth upon. For those words were spoken by Abraam peradventure long before Crystes coming, & and at the lest before any word of the new testament written. And therefore though they might be drawn to touch the traditions which the false pharasees gave unto the jews: yet could they not be drawn to touch the traditions which the true spirit of god by Cristes' promise, hath given unto his church. And that all those be written/ Tyndall seethe full well those words of Abraam, prove nothing at all. And therefore it is to me more than marvel, that he is not ashamed to lay those words for this purpose.  
For where he sayeth that every new question that may arise, we shall determine by scripture: ye see yourself very well he speaketh of an ungracious purpose/ willing to bring in his poisoned heresies under that ptexte, sith that he knoweth that the scripture proveth not the perpetual virginity of our lady, which he would have no man bounden to believe/ and also concerning the sacrament himself saith is but breed, and that there ought none honour to be done thereto/ and falsely defendeth the tone by the words of ●uyll construed scripture, and the t'other because it is no● commanded in scripture.  
And yet see ye farther that he speaketh as though he heard not his own voice. For he said afore that by the scripture we judge the counsels. And then how can any thing be determined by scripture/ when of the right understanding thereof there can never any determinate end be made, though all Christendom should come together and agree thereon, but that every foolish heretic may say that all they understood it wrong, and himself only right. This is a substantial reason of Tyndale be ye sure. But because he will that with scripture the general counsels must be judged: what scripture alleged the apostles for their determination in the xu chapter of the acts, where they in their counsel said, & by their pistle wrote, the holy ghost & we have seen it good, to put no more burden upon you, than these necessary things/ that is wit that you abstain from things offered to idolies, and from blood, & all thing that is strangled, and from fornication/ from which things if ye keep yourselves ye shall do well.  
what scripture laid they for this general counsel of theirs. For though there were scripture in the old testament, that forbade these things and other to: yet was there no scripture whereby they concluded those things to be kept and observed partly for ever, partly for a time, rather than the other commandments of the law. was not the authority thereof by the reason of Crystes word: He that heareth you heareth me/ which word had as great strength before it was written, as ever it had sins.  
Now this same authority hath Crystes church assembled in the general counlayles/ and the same spirit inspireth them, and the same words of Crist bindeth his flock to obey them that bound them to obey his apostles.   

Tyndale.  
Nay saith Tyndale, not so. when M. More alleged, he that heareth you heareth me/ and also this, If any man here not the chyrh ta●e him for an he than/ concluding that we must believe what so ever is shaven in all that he affirmeth without scripture or miracle: I would fain wit in what figure that syllogism is made.   

More.  
I would fain with of Tyndale in what place of my book he findeth that I make that conclusion/ with which it pleaseth him to bylye me to sweet his own answer with. For I never concluded nor said that we were bounden to believe all that is shaven in all that ever he saith. But I then said and yet I say, that these words of our saviour Criste, who so heareth you heareth me/ were no more proper commandment to bind any man to believe the apostles, then to believe the whole catholic church and general counsels, that represent that whole body of the catholic church/ and that they were not spoken to the apostles only, no more than the holy ghost was promised by christ to be sent unto the apostles only. And Criste no more promised to send the holy ghost unto th'apostles only/ than he promised to be with the apostles only, all the days unto the end of the world.  
Now these words of Criste, if any man here not the church, take him for an heathen: every man well wotech that this is manifestly spoken not of the apostles only for their time, but of the church as long as the world shall last. For so long shall the church endure, do these heretics what so ever they can to the contrary. And as it is true of every particular church and the governors thereof, as long as it swerveth not from the whole body of the church universal: so is it much more properly meant of the whole universal church it self/ and of the counsels general representing that hole church, whereof every particular church is but a member.  
And therefore where as Tyndale saith he would fain find in what figure the syllogism is made, which he saith I conclude: he must go light a candle and seek up that himself/ for it is his own syllogism and not mine, for himself maketh that conclusion and not I.  
But my syllogism is this. Every christian man refusing to here, believe, and obey, the church/ is to be taken as an heretic and an heathen. But so it is that Tyndale being a christian man, and taking upon him in the understanding of scripture, to control and condemn the church/ refuseth to here, believe, and obey the church: ergo Tyndale is to be taken as an heathen man and an heretic.  
This syllogism is mine. And this syllogism if Tyndale would fain wit in what figure it is made: he shall find it in the first figure, & the third mode/ saving that the minor carrieth his proof with him, which would else in the same figure and the same mode have made another syllogism.  
Now knitteth he up all this gear with another syllogism of his own making. And in what figure he maketh that, let him tell that can/ for surely that can I not. These are his words.   

Tyndale.  
Crystes disciples taught Crystes doctrine, conserming it with miracles/ that it might be known for gods and not the yrs. And even so must the church that I will believe/ show a miracle, or bring authentic scripture that is come from the apostles that confirmed it with miracles.   

More.  
Now may I be bold to make the conclusion of his argument for him. For sith he goeth about in his book to teach not himself but other that shall read his book: his conclusion can be neither, but that no man should believe any church without miracle or authentic scripture. whereof the cause is because he will not otherwise believe any. Let him put that in figure when he can, and set there to the cause that moveth him thereto, to believe no church without scripture or miracle/ and yet will all together with xvi syllogysmes bring him short home.  
For when he saith that Crystes disciples taught his doctrine, confirming it with miracles/ and so must the church that he will believe, or else bring autentyque scriptures I say that he must prove the thing that he so often saith, & never proveth, nor never can/ that is that the apostles proved every point by a special miracle. which point I have reproved before/ and yet I ask him now again what miracle wrought the apostles for every point of their doctrine in their letter, that I spoke of mentioned in the xu chapter of the Acts/ or where is it written that they wrought any one for them all? I say also that the catholic church bringeth miracles for their doctrine as the apostles did for theyres/ in that that god ceaceth no year to work miracles in his catholic church many and wonderful, both for his holy men quykke and deed, and for the doctrine that these heretics unpugne/ as images, relics, & pilgrimages, and the blessed sacrament of the altar. And these so many & in so many places/ that these heretics themself can not deny it, but are shamefully driven to say like the jews, that it is the devil that doth them.  
I say therefore farther the Tyndale doth but mokke & trifle/ when he sayeth he will believe no church without miracle or authentic scripture. For he refuseth to believe the church though it bring both twain. For if we bring autentyque scripture: he will not let to say that it is not authentic, as he playeth by the Maccabees, & his master be saint I amiss pistle. If he deny not, then will he say that the church understandeth it wrong/ so that the church hath need to bring miracles, to prove him that the scripture is the scripture/ and that they all together understand it better than he alone, as well as that the church is the church. And yet when the catholic church bringeth miracles wrought by god in it, & for it, and the plenteously/ & no church any one but it: then saith Tyndale that they be all wrought by the devil. And thus ye may see when he hath all said/ he neither regardeth miracle nor scripture neither, but mocketh both twain.  
Now have ye herd all that I find Tyndale answer, against such things as I laid before in my dialogue/ to prove that all thing necessary is not written in scripture. And then what proof he can make for his own part, to pew that all is written, ye have herd all ready/ wherein how little pith there is, every child may perceive.  
And then may ye surely reckon, that sith this is his last book, and the place in which he maketh a special title for the matter: he bringeth in all the best that he can find. And if he find any thing ellyswhere written by his master, or himself, or any other of his fellows for that purpose, which he leaveth out here: ye may be fast and sure he seeth well● he should have but shame to bring it in. As the words of Criste: Ins●●●●te scriptur●●, quoniam i●s● testimonium ●●hibēt de me. Look you in that scriptures for they bear witness of me. which thing no man denieth/ but we deny them that nothing witnesseth christ else but the scripture alone. For our saviour himself which said those words, said that saint Iohn also bare witness of him bysyde the scripture/ & that his father bare witness of him bysyde the scripture/ and that his own works bare witness of him bysyde the scripture/ and that the holy ghost at his coming bare witness of him bysyde the scripture/ and his apostles (as himself said they should/ bare witness of him beside the scripture. And now that all ever they all witnessed of Cristes' will to be necessarily believed or d●ne, is sins those words of christ spoken by his apostles written in the scripture: this seeth Tyndale well that he must prove us by scripture/ and not bind us only to the scripture by those words of Criste: search you that scripture/ which were spoken of christ before all the new scripture, and should serve to strain us to prove all thing by the old scripture, & to believe nothing farther than we find written in the old testament. And therefore Tyndale had yet some wit when he left those words out.  
And like wise he saw that it had not been to purpose to bring in those words, which some of that sect bring forth full solemnly, that is to wit the words of saint Iohn in the Apocalyps, where he saith: If any man any thing set to these things/ god shall put upon him the plagues written in this book. And also if any man any thine ● my nyshe of the words of the books of this prophecy/ god shall take from him his part of the book of life, and of the holy city, and of those things that are written in this book.  
By which words he meaneth not that no man shall never after be so hardy to write any prophecy, if ever it please god any other thing to reucle. And much less he meaneth to put god to silence, that he shall never any other thing reveal if him list/ nor saith not that god hath showed him that he never will. But he giveth a charge th●t men use diligence and truth in the writing out of his own. And much like charge all be it not of like authority/ have other writers given for their own books as it is to see in the end of the chronicle of Eusebius translated I trow by saint Hierom/ and in saint Ireneus works the same charge given in likewise, with much like adjuration joined there unto.  
And therefore as solemnly as some of his brethren bring forth these words of saint Iohn: Tyndale saw yet that they would not serve, and therefore he left them out.  
Now lay some folk for this purpose, the words of Moses in the xii of the deuteronomy, where he say The thing that I command thee, that thing only shalt thou do to god/ and thou shalt neither any thing add nor minish. which words be yet in this matter less to the purpose, than the words before rehearsed of the apocalypse. For who so look in the place, and read over the chapter: he shall see that Moses' said those words only for fere that he had/ lest sith he had on god's behalf commanded them some certain sacrifices vnt● god, the people prone to idolatry, would add of their own minds, either some sacrifice unto idols/ or unto god some kind of such abominable sacrifice, as the gentiles offered unto their idols. And for fere thereof/ he said unto them: Thou shalt do unto god that thing only that I command the. And thou shalt neither any thing add nor minish. But he told the cause before & said: when the lord thy god shall have destroyed before thy face the gentiles, upon whom thou shalt enter to take them in thy possession/ and when thou shalt have them in thy possession, and shalt dwell in the land that belonged unto them: beware that thou follow not them, after that they shallbe bythy coming in, overturned/ beware I say that thou seek not after their ceremonies and say: As these people were wont to worship their god's/ even so will I worship ●o. Thou shalt not do likewise to the lord thy god. For they have done unto their gods all the abominations that our lord hateth/ offering their own sons and daughters, and burning them up in fire. And then setteth Moses there unto the words before rehearsed, willing them that they shall neither lean undone any of those ceremonies and sacrifices that he had commanded, nor add any new kind of their 〈◊〉 mind/ lest they might hap to fall to those kinds of sacrifice of the paynims, that were abominable afore the face of god.  
Now what serve these words of Moses to our psent purpose. For first if Moses had not meant as I say, & as the circumstance of the terte showeth/ but had utterly meant to command them that they should nothing add at all in no manner thing unto those things that he commanded them himself as the words sown: then had he forbode them to believe or obey any prophet that ever should come after him/ except only the prophet of whom he prophesied and bade they should hear him. And yet might they think that prophet restrained by those words, in such things as should pertain to the service of god.  
Also if that Moses had not meant as I say, but pcysely foreboden them to add any thing at all unto his institutions: they might never have added any new feast of holy days unto those that god had by Moses appointed them all ready. And then how might the feast called festum encc●niorū have been instituted afterward, which was long after Moses' days instituted and very solemnly observed/ and god there with so well content, that our saviour honoured it with his own blessed presence himself.  
But now suppose that Moses had himself meant as straightly as their unreasonable construction would strain his words to: what would all that serve unto their purpose in our matter. May christian men do nothing but that that Moses bade/ because the jews might do nothing but that that Moses' bad? where were then become the sacrament of baptism, and the sacrament of the altar? ye say they, but this proveth that the church should add nothing of their own mind unto god's word/ for such a note in the bible some have set solemnly in the margin upon those words. But I dare be bold to tell them again, that they may better scrape that note out again/ then use it unto this purpose. For first those words proveth no such thing at all, but if Moses had meant as straightly as they strain him/ in which I have proved that they take him wrong.  
secondly I say that if Moses had meant as precisely as they miss take him: yet had it touched but the jews/ and us christian men nothing at all.  
thirdly I say that in the things which Tyndale reproveth the sacraments of the church/ the church hath added nothing unto the word of god. For we say that they be the word of god well written in holy scripture as hath been plainly proved them/ and that himself well knoweth, but that he listeth to play his part and say nay still, be the proof never so clear.  
Fourthly we say that any such thing as the church useth or believeth as necessary, though it be not written: yet add they thereby nothing unto god's words. For we say that it is god's word unwriten, and of as great authority as is his word written/ as the things that partly were delivered to the church by the apostles, and partly taught unto the church by that holy spirit of god, that was by Crystes promise sent unto the church to be with it for euer● to teach it and lead it into every troth.  
Finally for conclusion to prove you the folly of that allegation: ye know well all our question is no more but whither the apostles left every necessary thing in writing, as Tyndale affirmeth. And now consider you whither this be a good proof or not/ though Moses' words were taken as straight as these men miss take them. were not this ween ye well argued. Moses' forbade the jews to add or minish to or from any thing that he commanded: ergo the apostles have left no necessary thing unwritten.  
Bysyde that this argument is very foolish in it self: yet have I before at large opened you the lakkes thereof, where I answered Tyndale concerning his high reason of the apostles charity, compelling them to leave nothing unwritten. And besides that one plain difference is there, that Moses was commanded to write, and the apostles were not commanded at all/ though god allowed, assisted, and aspired them his grace therein, as he doth many good men in many good wurkes beside any commandment.  
And Moses also commanded to write as he was/ was not commanded yet to put all together in writing, that the people should be bounden to do or believe, by any text the Tyndale hath showed us yet, or ever shall show I suppose.  
How be it as for this allegation, though some other have thought it gay: Tyndale yet perceived it for such as he saw well would not serve him/ and therefore he left it out.  
yet are there some, & among them frere Barons/ that layeth for the purpose the words of our saviour written in the xxiii of Matthew, where he saith, Upon the cheyre of Moses, are now set the scribes and the pharisees. All things that ever they say unto you observe them and do them/ but the things that they do, do not you. For they bind unportable burdayns and lay them upon other men's shoulders, and will not so much as with a finger of their own, ones stir them. By these words would frere Barons that there should nothing be taught but only scripture. And over that he would by these words, that a man might break all the laws that the hole church maketh beside the express precepts of god contained in the scripture without any scruple of conscience/ so that he do it secretly where there were no week conscience of feeble faythed folk offended. where as undoubted those words neither prove his purpose in the first, and prove clean against his purpose in the second. For beginning with the second/ those words plainly declare that because our saviour both than intended to show, and often before had showed, that the scribes & pharisees were nought: yet lest the people might hap to think that he would therefore they should be set at nought and not obeyed/ he gave them not warning only but also plain commandment, that sith they were in the authority and occupied the place of Moses that gave the law, & were the rulers and governors of the people, they should obey them and fulfil that they commanded them. And lest the people should take him as frere Barons doth/ and ween because he spoke of Moses' chair, that therefore they should obey him in nothing else but as far as they should read in Moses' books/ and upon every thing that they should be boden, should say show me that written in Moses' books: christ therefore commanded them that they should observe and fulfil all their commandments. Not meaning by that generalty that they should obey any commandment that by god were forbe●en, nor to set god's law aside for men's traditions as himself said in the xv. of Matthew: but forbidding them to refuse to fulfil the commandment of their rulers, whereof there were no mention made in scripture, where the commandment tended to virtue, good manners, or god's honour. Now the words of saint austin which frere Barons bringeth in, do nothing prove the point that Barons would prove by them. For he would have it seem that saint austin taketh those words of Crystes as himself doth. But saint austin there by the allegory of the chair of Moses occupied by the scribes and pharaseys: exponeth those words of a preacher that is not the very true shepherd that in his preaching seeketh nothing but the profit of the sheep and the glory of christ/ but that is a mercennary preacher and an hired, which seeketh his own temporal advantage and commodity. Of whom saint austin giveth warning that yet even such preachers nought as they be/ yet for the while that they be suffered to preach, in all that they say well and according to the law of god, we should hear them & allow them therein, and learn to live thereafter. But on the other side, if they would when they have begun with good things for a countenance to get them in credence/ then 〈◊〉 of such things and preach of that they seek for that is to wit fantasies of their own invention, and for themself and their own commodity: therein be they not to be herd or believed. And this is the mind of saint austin as every man that will consider his words in the place where they be written, the xlvi tretyce upon saint Iohn, shall very plainly perceive. And thereby shall he that there readeth them as plainly perceive, that those words of saint austin brought forth by Barns, do nothing prove Barns purpose/ that is to wit, that those words of christ do discharge every man's conscience of obedience unto any precepts, laws, or traditions of men, other than be written in scripture.  
For the thing that saint austin there saith: divers holy men entreating the same words in the like allegory of doctrine and preaching, do say and confirm in likewise/ and never wise man would say otherwise. But the thing that Barns saith/ never was there yet either good man or wise man that would agree. For those words of christ saving by way of the allegory, seem not so properly to pertain to teaching of the scribes and pharaseys, as to their commandments and biddings/ as well appeareth by the words following, where he biddeth that they should observe and do all the things that they say to them. And that he should mean not only the precepts written in the law, but also their other commandments beside, such as were not supersticious or unlawful to be kept: is clearly declared by the words of christ following, where he sayeth in this wise, For they bind importable burdayns and lay them on other folks shoulders, but themself will not put a f●nger of their own thereto. As though he would say Sith they sit upon Moses' chair, and occupy his place and be your governors: do ye all that they command you all though the burdayns that they bind and lay on your shoulder be so great & heavy, that they seem in a manner unportable/ but do not as they do. For they will themself leave them all undone, and not set once a finger to the doing of them. But I warn you do not you so.  
I know right well that those words may be well exponed on the other fashion afore remembered, understanding in the allegory by the chair of Moses, the doctrine & law of Moses. And then may those grievous importable burdayns be called the burdens of the old law/ with which saint Peter and the apostles were not content, that some other would lad the christian people coming unto Criste/ saying that neither themself nor their fathers could bear t●em. Thus I know well men may expone those words, and good men● holy men, and cunning men so have done/ and other in likewise after the manner that I now do, & both twain have therein done very well. For one text may be diversely in diverse senses expowned● though Luther and Tyndale will have now but one, till another may better make for their own purpose/ for than they will not let to make fifteen. But though those words may be so exponed: yet as I said it appeareth well, that the very proper sense is of their own traditions bysyde Moses' law/ in that christ said that the scribes and pharasyes did bind grievous burdayns and importable, and lay them on other men's shoulders. For every man well woteth that neither the scribes nor the pharisees, did bind and lay on men's shoulders the burdens of the law, but our lord himself. And which at that time while he would yet have them kept, he would not have dispraised, with calling them grievous and importable/ though the apostles did afterward when time came to caste them of.  
And therefore as I have said, those words of Crystes were properly meant of the traditions & commandments of the scribes & pharasees themself bysyde the law/ which things our saviour there commanded to be kept & observed, where so ever they were not supersticious, nor contraryed not the laws and commandments of god/ but were tending to his honour, or to virtue, or to the comen wealer for the place and office that the scribes and pharisees kept, though themself were nought. And their good traditions did never christ dispraise/ though he sometime dispensed with his disciples concerning them and the law to.  
Now there is no man I think so madde● when he doubteth not but the servants in a man's household are so bounden to fulfil and obey their masters lyefull commandments, that if they would refuse at his bidding to kneel down and say certain praoyurs with him to bed ward all the whole house together, till he should show them some such commandment in scripture/ they were well worthy to go to the devil for their proud disobedience in the defence of their false evangelical freedom: he that doubteth not I say of this (of which I think no good man doubteth) can not be so mad to think that neither bishop, nor pope, nor whole general counsel, nor all christian people together, though they were all assembled upon a plain, were able so to command so much as a general procession upon any certain day/ but that any lewd lyther lozel that list not to rise, may lie still in his bed, & say he is not bounden to obey man's traditions, nor nothing but scripture except for avoiding of slander/ and then there shallbe so many at the procession that he shall not be missed, & if he be, some man may say he is sick.  
Upon these words concerning their traditions, would I not have been so long/ saving that both frere Barns rially triumpheth with them against the laws of the church, and also that Tyndale in his answer to the xviii chapter of my dialogue, bringeth in the same for the like intent. which intent how properly they prove between them both, now ye may partly see/ and yet farther shall by god's grace when I shall hereafter god willing, come to touch the place in Tyndales answer to me.  
But now that I have proved that those words of Crist make not only nothing for they purpose against the laws of Crystes church/ but also make plainly for the laws against their purpose: I shall not need long to tarry you for the other point/ that is to wit, to prove you that those words of christ nothing make against our principal purpose. For they nothing prove that every necessary thing is written/ though we conster Crystes words not of the traditions, of which they be properly spoken in d●de, but of the law of Moses'/ and set thereunto the words of saint austin also, with which Barns would seem so well to furnish his matter. For first as for Crystes words if they had been plain & expressly these, what so ever the scrybiss and pharisees bid you do that is written in the law of Moyces, I warn you see that you do it: yet while he said not farther, & I warn you believe them not in any thing else/ these words were no proof that all together was written, where in the people should believe them no more than that all thing where in they should believe them, was written in Moses' books. which if it were taken so/ then were all that they might teach the people written in Esaie● Hieremie, or Ezechiel, by Cristes' word wiped out of credence.  
Therefore by those words exponing them of the doctrine of Moses, and not of the traditions of the scribes and pharisees/ yet is there nothing proved that they were not to be believed in any thing that they should teach bysyde Moses, nor bysyde all the scripture neither. Nor those words of christ be not contrary, but that there might be yet at those days trewthes kept among the people by tradition from the beginning, which the scribes and pharisees both might preach and remember to the people as they might the scripture, and be therein believed. And therefore our saviour said not, believe them in nothing but the books of Moses or other books of scripture/ but he said, do not as they do/ not forbedinge them to believe them in many other things, but forbeding them to follow them in their vices.  
Now if christ had said farther to the jews/ all things necessary be written, & therefore believe the scribes & pharisees no farther than ye find written in Moses and in the prophets: had this proved that all thing that christian me● must believe, is written in the apostles and the euāgelistes● Now the words of saint austin which frere Barons addeth thereunto/ do for this purpose nothing advance the matter. For when saint austin applieth those words of christ to a preacher that is not a very true shepherd, so king only the weal of the flock and the pleasure of Criste/ but mercennary and an hired man, that preacheth for luc●● or other wordly affections of his own/ and than sayeth that in the chair of Moses is understand the learning of the law of god, and saith that therefore god doth teach us by them, that is to wit by those mercennary preachers to/ and therefore when they teach the law of god, here them and do thereafter/ but and if they will teach their own doctrine, here it not, do it not/ for such men seek that is theyres and not Crystes, that is to wit their own commodity and not the pleasure of god: lo saith Barns these words of saint austin be plain against all them that preach any thing but the law of god only. And forthwith well and wisely in stead of preaching, he putteth ensample of statutes making/ as though it were both one thing, one man to preach and all the church to make a statute. And because ye should see yet his plainness and sincerity therein/ he feigneth that the church maketh some openly and directly against the word of god, and to the destruction of the faith/ as is that statute saith he, whereby they have condemned the new testament and also forbidden certain men to preach the word of god, having no cause against them but all only their own malicious suspicion.  
Now of troth there is no such statute made● nor no such thing done, neither concerning the tone point nor the t'other. For as for the new testament/ if he mean the testament of christ, it is not condemned nor foreboden neither, no more than was the holy arch, though every man might not be so bold to touch it. But of troth, there is a false english translation of the new testament newly forged by Tyndale, so altered & changed in matters of great weight, maliciously to set forth against Crystes true doctrine Tyndales antichrysten heresies/ that it was not worthy to be called Crystes testament, but either Tyndales own testament, or the testament of his master antichrist. And therefore that book is condemned as it is well worthy/ and the condemnation thereof is neither openly, nor privily, directly, nor indirectely against the word of god, nor tendeth not to the destruction of the faith, but very consonant with the word of god, auferte masum ex vobismet ipsis/ and greatly tending to the maintenance of the faith.  
And concerning that testament: I have both in my dialogue and in the second book of this work, well proved this point/ whereunto when Tyndale weeneth to find any farther defence, let him lay it forth.  
There is also no statute made by the church, to forbid any man to preach the word of god having no cause against him but their own malicious suspicion. Nor god I doubt not will never suffer his church to fall so mad, as to make such a law. If frere Barns find any law made of such mater● let him rehearse it/ and I warrant you he shall find no such words in it. There is in deed a law made, both by the church and in this realm by the parliament to that no man shall be suffered to preach in any diocese against the bishops will. And I ween that law be not against god's law, nor against reason neither/ except either God's law or good reason should suffer that one man should meddle with another man's charge magry his teeth to whom the charge belongeth/ or else should be suffered to sow shrewd seed of heresies, schisms, & seditions, among the people fyrst● & then be burned up after at leisure. Such folk I suppose were better prohibited bytymes, ere they be suffered long to go forward, to the apparel of other men's souls & their own to. Such have we had some prohibited here of late/ of which one was yet so sore set upon evil preaching, that after the prohibition & abjuration to, yet would he preach heresies still/ until at the last god caused him to be taken, & Tindals' books with him to, & both two burned together/ with more profit unto his soul than had been happily to have lived longer & after died in his bed. For in what mind he should then have died our lord knoweth/ where as now we know well he died a good christian man. And when he wist well his revocation could not save his body: yet revoked he his heresies and abhorred Tyndals books for to save his soul.  
Now here serve well the words of saint austin against Barns, which words Barns bringeth for him. For when we here such a mercennary preacher as these heretics be/ for the time that we hear them, if they say aught well, and according to the catholic faith, as they can not for shame say all nought at ones: then take it. But when we here them preach their own heresies for the reward of worldly praise, or delight of their own singular pride, and so seek their own and not Crystes: then here them not, but put them to silence and prohibit them to preach any more.  
This allegory will agree with the said words of saint austin & of Crystes words to. And yet so much the better, in that these heretics may properly be called not only mercennaryes, of whom saint austin speaketh/ but also very scribes and pharisees, of worse kind than were those of whom Criste in that gospel speaketh. For these be false scribes/ that is to wit writers, not writing any true books of scripture, but false gloss and contrary comments upon scripture, and erroneous books of devilish heresies devised of their own frantic brains/ to the colour whereof they abuse the scripture, and when they list they also deny the scripture. These be also the worst kind of pharisees. For these have divided themself not from the other people by any profession of a more honest & more virtuous living/ but have divided themself from the catholic church of christ by abominable heresies, and from all honest people by the contempt of all good wurkes, and by the bestely profession of freres & nuns living together in lechery, & preaching their whoredom fo● honest matrimony.  
These be the things which we should not vouchsafe to here these scribes and the●e false pharisees preach. For these be the devils devices and their own. For as for all that is preached consonant to the catholic faith, is very god's law whither it be written or not. Nor saint austin saith not, Here them in preaching only the scripture/ but god's law he saith, wherein is comphended all that ever we be bound to do or believe. whereof saint austin doth himself confess, that diverse things are unwritten/ as for ensample the perpetual virginity of our blessed lady, which who so believeth not because it is not written, saint austin calleth a fals● heretic in his book written unto Quod vult deus. And so doth saint Hierome to in his book against Eluidius. And all such things be therefore parts of the plants which the father of heaven planteth by himself, his apostles, his holy spirit, and his own son abiding in his church: whither they be written or not.  
And thus ye see good readers, that neither those words of christ, nor of saint austin, neither do prove that the apostles have left all necessary things in writing. And therefore though Barns was so fond to bring in that text for this purpose: yet Tyndale perceived well that it would not serve, and therefore left it out.  
yet layeth frere Barns another text for this purpose, the words of saint Poule written unto Timothe the iii chapter of the ii pistle. where saint Poule writeth unto him in this wise: Abide thou in those things that thou hast learned, and that are betaken to thee/ knowing of whom thou haste learned them and that from thine infancy thou haste known holy scripture, which may instruct the to health by the faith that is in christ jesu. All scripture inspired of god is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to teach men in justice, that the man of god may be perfayte instructed to every good work.  
I have rehearsed you saint Paul's words more full than doth frere Barns/ because ye may have some guess why he left the remanant out. For he rehearseth no more but that the church must neither make law nor statute nor nothing do but only preach and minister the word of god/ and that nothing adding nor minishing, but as Poule saith to Timothe, abide in those things that they have learned and that be committed unto them.  
Now see ye well that saint Poule speaketh nothing to Timothe against adding o● any good order or statute in his church/ but biddeth him abide fast by those things that he hath learned of him, and that he hath learned in scripture/ joining to the scripture alway the right faith of christ which he had learned of saint Poule. And therefore against making of any law, this text serveth frere Barons a straw.  
Moreover it is to be considered that saint Poule saith not to Timothe, Abide in those things that I have written, but abide in those things that thou hast learned either in scripture or else otherwise of ●e without scripture, as he wrote unto the Thessalonycenses, Observe ye my precepts which I have given you, either by word or writing.  
And as he writeth unto Timothe before in the same pistle, Have thou the form and fashion of the wholesome words, which thou haste herd of me in faith & love in christ jesu. He saith not the words that I have written unto thee, and that thou hast red of mine/ but the words that thou hast herd of me.  
But yet is there for this purpose in that text of saint Poule that Barns bringeth forth, another thing to be considered/ that where as saint Poule telleth Timothe, that all be it he have been learned in scripture from his childhood/ yet he must join therewith the articles of the faith of christ. And that it may well appear that he giveth Timothe this warning to arm him with against heretics, which would labour by some colour of apparent scriptures to destroy the faith that Timothe had learned, as these heretics do now: it is I say therefore to be noted that saint Poule gave Timothe that warnynge● that he should stand fast in those things that he had taught him/ remembering of whom he had learned them, of a true apostles and not of such as they were, that would tell him contrary, false heretics. And so must we against these heretics that would draw us from the true faith that we have learned/ stand fast and remember of whom we have learned it● of christ and his apostles, and continually from them of his perpetual apostle the catholic church of christ, animated and instructed according to his promise with his own spirit this xv. C. years/ and not by such as these be that now babble against it, false heretics/ whose snakysshe and serpentine generations, have ever more hitherto when they have crept out as adders and snakes in summer, had their heads trodden down by god and all good men.  
Saint Poule told Timothe to/ that the scripture was good and profitable to teach the faithful folk, and to reprove heretics if he joined therewith alway the faith of christ/ without which it would do him no service, for all that he had been learned therein from his childhood. And in the warning given to Timothe saint Poule hath taught us also, that if we have sure in heart the articles of Crystes faith, which be surely kept by christ in his catholic church: then shall we be able well to understand the scripture, so much as shall suffice and be necessary. And but if we have that belief/ we shall have no right understanding. But that right byleyfe, and thereby that understanding had/ the scripture (though all things be not written therein) will yet be profitable and stand us in good stead, not only for our instruction toward the perfection of vertuose living, but also in disputation against heretics/ both in the proof of many articles of the right belief, and to prove them clearly that the comen consent of Crystes catholic church can not in Christ's very true faith err and be damnably deceived, whither the things believed be written in scripture or not/ and also that his catholic church is this comen known church of all christian nations, save such as be by false heresies separated there fro. And un the other side, without the catholic faith of Cristes' church fastened in our hearts/ the scripture as it could not have served Timothe without the true faith had in his heart, so can it not serve us neither to the confusion of heretics nor to the spiritual profit of ourself.  
And thus ye see that frere Barons hath very poor help of this text of saint Poule/ which thing Tyndale well percyved & therefore he left it out. And Barns himself perceiving that the most part would make so much against him/ took in a little and left the remanant out.  
yet bringeth in Barns another text of saint Poule, where he writeth unto the romans in the xu chapter: I dare not speak any other thing than those that god hath wrought by me. which words first be so hard as they stand in the place, that the old interpreters stood in great doubt what saint Poule meant by them/ so far forth that by exposition of saint Ambrose, saint Poule meant that there was nothing that pertained to the glory of preaching the word of god, but that god had fulfilled it in him/ as though he would say that all that was to be taught, god had taught the gentiles by him. Origene exponeth them in another manner/ that saint Poule in those words meant, that he would not take unto himself the praise of other men's deeds, but would only speak of such things as god had wrought by himself. Theophylactus alloweth Origenes exposition, and yet addeth a third thereto, saying in the person of saint Poule: I boast yo● not the things that I have not done/ but only show you the thing I have done myself. How be it that that I have done/ it is not I that have done it, but christ hath done it by me.  
I show you this good readers because ye should somewhat perceive the manner of these men/ which use in many things to prove their matters by those texts that are of most difficulty, and such as are lest understanden. And therefore in the matter of the liberty of man's will, & predestination, and the matter of faith, and good wurkes: they pass over the plain texts of the other evangelists with some slayght gloze of their own device/ and then for the proof of their own part they run to the hard places of the gospel of saint Iohn, or to the apocalypse, or to the pistles of saint Poule, in such places as are almost as hard as the apocalypse. All which when they expone as it please them/ then the call them plain, and say that every man & woman may understand them easily/ notwithstanding that saint Peter being long at school with christ, and the chief of his apostles, protesteth openly to all the world by writing, that saint Paul's pistles have things hard & difficile. And he saith farther of such as Barns is & Tyndale● and such other heretic their fellows: Those hard things saith saint Peter that are written by saint Poule/ men unlearned and unstable, do deprave and mysconstre as they do all the remanant of the scripture, unto their own perdition. And saint Poule saith himself also● that in the matter of good wurkes, these false heretics miss constre him/ and sayeth therefore that their damnation is just and righteous.  
And thus as I say these heretics lay forth for their part heard texts and doubtful, as Barns doth here/ which text in the place where it standeth, the best learned men are in doubt how to conster it. How be it let Barns conster it which way he list, that may have any hold of the words/ and it shall never serve for his purpose, neither concerning any forbidding of laws to be made by the church, nor to prove that every thing necessary to salvation is written in scripture/ but rather plain the contrary. For every man well woteth, that every necessary thing is not written by saint Poule, nor he hath not written every thing that he taught, nor every thing is not now had that he did write. And therefore this text of saint Poule brought in by Barns nothing helpeth his purpose, but rather greatly hindereth it/ which thing Tyndale well perceived, and therefore he left it out.  
Tyndale saw well also that any thing that his master Marten Luther laid and lashed out against the kings highness, concerning this purpose, or speaking against the traditions of men/ serve to no purpose in this matter against the sacraments, or any point of the catholic faith, which we say be the traditions of god. whereof as Tyndale well knoweth/ nothing that Luther laid, any thing prove the contrary, nor any thing touch the purpose, to prove that all the necessary points of the christian faith were by Crystes apostles put in writing. And therefore Tyndale saying his master Martin Luther in that point by Rosseus so shamefully soused in the mire before: thought he would beware of that puddle and come no more near it/ and therefore left out all that his master had brought in for the matter.  
Then was there yet one text remained, whereof many of them were wont to bear them high. And that was the saying of saint Poule/ which text Tindale hath also brought forth ere this, to prove that we must believe nothing but only scripture. And that is where he writeth to the Galathyes in the furst chapter: that if an angel of heaven would come down and preach any other gospel than himself had done, accursed were he. This text hath now frere Barns brought in a fresh for the same purpose in his new frantyke book, and magnifieth much himself there with, when Tyndale hath left it of for shame. For Tyndale at last after long looking on it/ espied well that it would nothing serve for his matter. For he saw well that saint Poule meant none other, but that an angel were not to be believed, if he taught a contrary gospel/ and meant not that none angel were to be believed, if god sent him both to confirm that, and also show somewhat that god would have done farther.  
Tyndale saw also that that text sayeth not that saint Poule hath written all his own gospel, nor that all his fellows had written it among them all/ which he wist well was the point that must be proved. And therefore as frere Barns foolishly bringeth it in/ so doth Tyndale wisely leave it out. And surely as I have said, his wit served him well in leaving out all th●se. But his wit failed him in one thing, that he had not left out also all that ever he hath himself brought in. All which as yourself see well/ I have now proved him as little to prove his purpose, as himself seeth well that all the t'other did, which for that cause he was ashamed to speak of.  
Now have ye herd as far as I can find, all that ever Tyndale either hath said or can say in this matter/ either himself or any man else for the proof of his own part, or for the dysprofe of ours. And thereby see ye well that he neither hath proved, nor never shall he prove while he liveth, neither himself nor no man else, the thing that he so boldly saith, that all thing necessary for salvation is written in scripture/ nor able is he not, nor no man else, nor never shall, hereafter be able to avoid it/ but that god taught & is not yet so bounden, but that he may teach what he will and when he will, with scripture or without/ and may command it to be believed not being contrary to that he hath taught all ready, and may command some things to be done though they were contrary to some things that he had himself by scripture commanded afore.  
And I think it not to be doubted but notwithstanding that Moses received the laws ad ceremonies in writing: yet received he not (as Tyndale saith he did) all thing so fully in writing, but that there remained in the people's minds bysyde the writing diverse things necessary and of great weight, that they had received byfore● & kept peradventure from Adam's own days/ concerning the coming of christ, and the redemption by him, and the state of souls, both in heaven, hell, purgatory, paradise, & lymbus patrum.  
And it will who so list to look therefore, well be perceived in them that wrote after Moses' days/ that the jews had much open light and knowledge in some such things bysyde all that that appeareth written/ in the .v. books of Moses whereby it will well appear that Tyndale sayeth not true, where he saith that Moses did put all in writing.  
ye shall well find also, that not withstanding all that ever hath been written sins, either by the prophets, evangelists, or any other apostle: yet will it never appear that all is written that was taught by mouth/ but that the church of christ hath had taught unto them by the spirit of god, diverse truths, which no good man can doubt in, whereof the scripture nothing determineth/ and which things therefore false heretics bring in question, and let not to say the contrary, as in the comen known ensamples of our ladies perpetual virginity, of the assumption of her blessed body, which god would else have had founden in earth, & honoured as well as the bodies of any other saint/ of whom himself hath caused by special revelation diverse to be sought out and founden, ●o be worshipped here in earth for his sake, and confirmed it by many manifest miracles, as we find in autentyque stories.  
By these traditions have we also the praying to saints, and the knowledge that they pray for us/ all be it in the book of Machabe●● yet that thing well appeareth.  
By these traditions have we the holy lenten fast/ which these brotheles so boldly take upon them to break, and as lollardes to eat flesh/ and which holy fast these folys in their writing call the foolish fast.  
By these have we also the saturday changed into the sunday, which they care not to turn into friday now.  
By these have we the hallowing of chalices, vestiments, paschal taper, and holy water, with diverse other things.  
By these traditions of that holy spirit/ hath the church also the knowledge how to consecrate, how to say mass, and what thing to pray for and to desire therein.  
By this have we also the knowledge to do reverence to the images of holy saints, and of our saviour/ and to creep to his cross/ and to do divine honour unto the blessed sacrament of the altar, to which yet to say the troth never tradition needed. For sith the scripture is plain that it is Crystes own precy●use body, which is not deed but quykke, with that blessed so●le and with them the godhead unseparably joined: what frantic fool could doubt but it should be with divine honour worshipped, though neither god nor man bysyde that knowledge, had given us warning thereof.  
But yet is Tyndale so far beside himself/ that he believeth not the scripture of god, nor the word spoken by gods own mouth, when he said that it is his own body/ and is so blasphemous against god, that he calleth it great sin to do to that blessed body of christ in the sacrament any honour at all, because it is not commanded he saith in scripture.  
But thus may ye good christian readers see, to what point at last this heresy bringeth these folk. For when they first fall to that point, that they regard not god's word but if he give it them in wrytynge● within a while after fall they down so far, that they neither regard his word, nor his writing, nor yet himself neither.  
But now is it a world to see what shift these folk be fain to seek. Sometime they come forth shameless, and boldly tell on their tale. And yet when they perceive in the mids thereof, that all that here them wonder on them: then they cast on their hodes and cover their faces for shame.  
For sometime they say they care but for scripture alone, and set nought by all those that ever wrote sins the apostles days. Then see they again that to abide by that word were to shameless/ and than they restrain it unto this viii hundred years last paste, in which they say all is corrupted. And then they grant that before, there were good men that taught the truth/ and than they say that we will not believe them, as though themself would.  
And when we ask them then/ which of those old men before viii C. year last passed, ever said that religious men might run out and wed nuns: to that they say nothing, but far as though they herd it not.  
But when that my lord of Rochester in the self same matter that we have now in hand, to prove that divers things which the church useth and believeth, and which were never made by any law written, and yet observed thorough the catholic church/ were of such antiquity that every man might well perceive that they came from the very apostles themself: h● laid forth the great clerk & old ancient father Origene/ wherewith as I have showed you before Tyndale was very angry, and all to rated Origen & called him stark heretic.  
But yet shall not Tyndale so fear me there withal/ but that to th'intent that he shall not blind you and make you ween that all the old fathers were in this matter of his mind/ but that ye shall well see that the things which he reproveth and would have you ween were nought worth, because he saith they be not in scripture, be not things devised as Tyndale saith by popes and popish within this viii. C. year: I shall as I promised before in the second book, rehearse you both the words of Origene/ and beside some undoubted holy men sins, I shall rehearse you divers other above viii C. year, and above xi C. year, and above a thousand to, of whom my lord of Rochester hath gathered diverse together, and rehearsed in the same matter in his book against Luther/ all which save Origene only Tyndale dissembleth, because he may not call them heretics as he called Origene/ for whom I have in that point answered Tyndale in my said second book before.  
Origene in the fift homely upon the book of Numeri writeth in this wise: In the observances of the church, some things there are, which must of necessity be observed and kept/ and ye● the cause why appeareth not to every man. As (for ensample) that we kneel when we pray/ & that of all parts of the heaven, we most specially turn us toward the este. I suppose that no man lightly knoweth the cause why. Moreover of the sacrament of th'altar, either the manner in the receiving, or the guise and fashion of the consecration/ or of the formale words and ceremonies used in baptism, and of the questions and answers used in the same: who may well open and declare the reason? And yet all these things though they be covered and hid/ we bear upon our shoulders what time we in such wise accomplish and fulfil them/ as we have received them of the great bishop christ and his children, delivered and commended unto us.  
Damascene in the fourth book in the xiii chapter of the praying toward the oryente writeth thus: This tradition of the apostles, is not written/ for many things are delivered unto us without writing. And farther in the xvii chapter where it is written of y●●urshyppynge of the images of saints, he sayeth that many things the holy apostles have delivered unto us without writing. Saint Poule the apostle of the gentiles writeth in this wise: Stand fast and observe our traditions, which ye be taught, be it by our word or by writing. And unto the Corynthyes thus: I commend ye my brethren/ by cause in every thing ye have remembered me, and kept the traditions as I delivered ye them.  
Dyonise the first chapter of Ecclesiasticae hierarchiae, of the leders and masters of the christian faith, saith that they delivered us many things to be kept, partly by writing and partly by their instytutions unwritten.  
saint Cyprian in his sermon of the washing of the feet: The high pressed himself, is the maintainer and author of his own sacrament. In all the residue men were taught by the holy ghost. And likewise as in Criste and in the holy ghost, is like and equal godhead: so is there in their instytutions and ordinances, like power and equal authority. And no less is it ratified of god, the thing that th'apostles by the inspiration of the holy ghost did institute: then the thing that himself hath ordained/ and hath in remembrance of himself, willed and commanded to be done. Each of them hath their own proper dignity/ and each of them hath in their own kind equal authority. Nothing may there either be added or withdrawn, nothing neither reform nor changed.  
saint hylary in the sixth book of the trinity, when he had made mention of the apostles writeth in this wise: Of these apostles am I taught these things that I observe. In them am I so seasoned, that the taste can never be gotten out.  
Theophilactus upon these words of saint Poule My brethren stand fast and keep the traditions that ye have learned, be it by my word or by my letters: of this truly it is euyd●nt that saint Poule delivered unto them many things to be kept without writing, and by word of mouth only/ that is to say with lively voice, not by letters all only. For as well be those things to be believed, as these. And therefore let us esteem thobservances of the chyrce, worthy to be believed/ so that if any thing be delivered to us by the church: never ask farther question.  
saint Hierome interpreting the xi chapter of the first epistle to the Corynthyes, saith in this wise: Saint Poule prevented them, to th'intent none of them should say/ where is this written? nor should with any other arguments strive against this reason. And therefore he said, we have no such custom to strive and contend/ neither we nor yet the church of god, which is rather given to mildness then to contention and strife.  
Theophilactus exponeth the same place likewise and saith: For as much as the Corinthyans' would perchance colour this matter by certain subtyltyes, and went about it by syllogysmies & sophistications/ alleging that these things were neither good nor bad, but of their nature indifferent: therefore saint Poule said, we have no such custom other to be contencyouse, or a man to let his here grow in length, or a woman to go bare head, neither have we (said saint Poule) this custom/ nor the church of god that is, nor the other christian people neither. And therefore by such froward arguments/ ye seem to resist and withstand not only me, but also the church it self.  
These words therefore of saint Poule/ may make the hearers ashamed, to do any thing contrary to the custom received by the church.  
saint Leo also an holyman and a cunning/ in a sermon that he maketh in the fast at whytesontyde, sayeth in this wise: There is no doubt my well-beloved brethren, but that every christian observance is of Crystes teaching/ and what so ever is received of the church into a custom of devotion, cometh of th'apostles tradition, and of the doctrine of the holy ghost. which holy spirit even now also doth rule all faithful hearts with his own instruction, to make them keep them obediently and understand them wisely.  
saint austin in the book of the baptism of young children, against the Pelagians writeth in this wise. Children which be baptized be taken in the number of faithful people/ and that only by an old cononyke & sure grounded custom of the church. And in another place again: Now saith he we have showed you afore that the little child believeth, & that he is accounted amonxst men that be baptized. This holdeth the authority of our mother holy church/ and this holdeth the rule of the sure grounded faith. who so runneth against this fortress, this inexpugnable wall/ shall all to frush himself.  
Cassianus in the xi collation the xii chapter: th'authority of the old fathers, and the custom of our elders continued by the space of so many years unto this day/ although the cause of them be not perceived by us: must we firmly believe. And that custom must we with perpetual observance reverently fulfil, in such wise as it was delivered of old.  
saint austin in the cxviii pistle to january sayeth thus: Those things which are not written, and yet we by tradition observe them, such I mean as are thorough christendom kept: we may well understand that they be kept as things ordained and commanded unto us, either by the apostles themself, or else by general counsels/ the authority whereof is in the church most necessary. As for ensample that the passion of christ, and his resurrection, and his ascension into heaven, and the coming of the holy ghost from heaven are yearly celebrate with a solemn feast/ and what somever thing we find that is observed among all people, where the church of christ is spread.  
Many things be not found in the writings of the apostles, nor in the counsels of those that came after them/ which yet because they be kept of all the hole church, we believe them to have had no nother beginning, but by the tradition and commendation of the apostles unto us by themself.  
Saint austin in the fourth book of baptism against the donatists: The thing that the hole church holdeth, and is not institute and ordained by counsels, and that not wytstanding hath been ever observed: we very well by leave, that it never began but by the authority of the apostles tradition.  
saint austin in the fift book of baptism against the Donatists saith, Many things are there which the universal church holdeth/ and therefore be well believed, that the apostles have commanded them, though they be not found in writing.  
saint austin in the xi chapter of the ix book of his confessions, writing of the departing of that holy blessed woman his mother Monica: showeth that all be it before time she had been very studious of the place where she would be buried, longed specially to be laid by her husband/ yet at the time that she lay dying, being then far from the place where her husband lay/ showed unto saint austin then psent with her, that she cared not in what church they buried her body/ but she prayed them very effectually to remember her in his mass which thing I write the ye may see, that the mass and praying for souls therein, is not so new a thing as Tyndale would have it seem.  
And in the next chapter after, saint austin sayeth these words spoken unto god: Her body was carried forth, we followed, & came again without tears. And over that in those prayers which we made unto thee, when the sacrifice of our redemption was offered for her, the corpse being set by the grave as the manner is there: I wept not in those prayers neither, but all the day was I in a grievous secret sorrow.  
And afterward in the last chapter of the same book, saint austin prayeth for his mother unto our Lord among many other words in this wise. I good lord that art my praise and my life, the god of my heart/ setting a side for the while my mother's virtues and goodness, for which I joyfully give the thanks: will now beseech the for her sins. Here me graciously good lord/ for that medicine of out wounds which hung upon the cross, and now sitting at thy right hand, doth call upon the for us. I know good lord that she did works of mercy, and that she heartily did frogyve the debts unto her debtors. forgive thou good lord her debts to her, such also as she hath fallen in by so many years after the water of health. forgive her good lord forgive her I beseech thee, and enter not with her into judgement. And afterward he saith, And I believe good lord that thou hast done all ready the thing that I pray for. For she when the day approached of her departing/ nothing bethought her how she might have her body costly covered or dressed with spyc●s, nor longed for a sumptuous sepulchre, nor cared not to be buried in her own country. These were not the things that she any thing required us/ but only desired us to have her in remembrance at thine altar to which she had been accustomed no day myssing to do service/ from which she well knew that holy sacrifice to be dispensed, by which the obligation that made against us was canceled, and by which was led as a captive in triumph that enemy of ours, that keepeth a reckoning of our sins/ and seeking what he might object, could in him nothing find in whom we have had the vyctory● who can shed him again an innocent blood for his? who can restore him again the ransom that he redeined us with? To the sacrament of which ransom of ours, thine hand maid hath bound her soul with the bond of faith. Let no man pull her from thy protection. Let neither the lion nor the dragon neither byforce nor by false sleight, step in between her and the. She shall not answer that she oweth the nought, lest she be therein convinced and cast, and that thereby her subtle accuser get her. But she shall answer that her debts be forgiven her, whom no man is able to pay that he paid for us, when he owed nought for himself. In peace moat she be therefore, and her husband to/ a fore whom and after whom she never married non/ whom she like a servant obeyed bringing fruit to thee, thorough her patient sufferance, that she might thereby win him to the to. Inspire good lord my god, inspire thy servants my brethren, thy children my lords, whom both with word and heart and writing I serve/ that as many as read this may remember at thine altar, thy servant Monica with Patricius sometime her husband, by whose flesh thou haste brought me into this life I can not tell how. Make them remember with a devout assertion, them that were in this transitory life my father and mother, & under the my father and my mother the catholic church, where my sister and brother, and in the eternal Jerusalem, shall be my neighbours and citizens/ which Jerusalem thy people from their going forth till their coming home, in all their pylgrymag longeth for and sigheth. Good lord grant this, that the thing which was the last that ever she desired of me, she may the more plenteously obtained by the prayers of many more.  
The old holy doctor saint Chrysostome, in his home lie wherein he showeth that alms deed, masses, and diriges greatly profit them that are deed/ among many other things writeth in this wise.  
It was not for naught ordained by th'apostles, that in the dreadful mysteries of the mass, should commemoration be made for them that be deed. For th'apostles knew that thereby cometh to the souls, great advantage and profit. For when all the people standeth together, holding up their hands, and the pressed fulfyll●th his observance, and that dreadful sacrifice set forth: how can it be, but that then praying for the souls, ●e shall obtain.  
Now see you very plain good christian readers, that of the eldest and the very best that ever have written upon the scripture of god in Crystes church, and which been holy saints in heaven, and such as suffered persecution for god's sake: do testify for our part, that the things which the catholic church universally ●yleueth and useth, are nothing to be doubted of/ but to be believed and used whither they be founden in scripture or not. And ye see that they say that the apostles taught and delivered to the church diverse things by mouth, bysyde all that they wrote, which thing saint Poule saith also himself/ and yet bysyde that, we see that of his writing there is part soused.  
ye see also that some such things as Tyndale sayeth, that the pope's have oflate feigned themself for their lucre, as the mass and the pains of purgatory: both saint austin, and saint Chrysostome, and other holy saints/ say that the things were believed, used, and taught by the apostles themself.  
〈◊〉 as for the old holy doctors, ye see how far they 〈◊〉 Tyndale/ and therefore of Tyndale or them believe whom ye like ●este for me/ and consider well with yourself, with whither of those two were surer to send your souls.  
yet is there as old as any that I have rehearsed yet, saint Polycarpus the disciple of saint Iohn, which wrote a book of the traditions given unto the church by the apostles/ which would plainly have proved Tyndale a fool and a liar both, if the book had not been lost. And undoubtedly god would never have suffered it to be lost, if he could not have kept his traditions without writing.  
How be it what need we better or elder then as I before have said, the authority of saint Iohn himself in his last chapter of the gospel: Many things were done that are not written in this book/ or of saint Poule writing himself to the Corynthyes: All other things I will ordain when I come myself/ and to the Thessalonycenses: keep you my precepts or institutions, which I have given you either by word or by my pistle. By which words it appeareth well, that he had written unto them before that then was holy scripture, and yet had ●en if it had been kept and preserved, and was not without good things therein and necessary/ whereof part may be such things as the heretics now do bark at, because the pistle is lost. But god is not lost, that preserveth still the matter though he let go the letter.  
saint Poule also to Timothe writeth of such unwritten traditions well and plainly, in his second pistle in these words: Thou therefore my son Timothe, be comforted in the grace that is christ jesus/ and those things that thou haste herd of me by many witnesses, commyte them unto faithful men, such as shallbe meet to teach them forth to other men. Those words of saint Poule do very plainly show, that some things there were which saint Poule taught Timothe, and that in presence of certain good virtues witness/ and which things were as saint Ambrose saith secret mysteries. which things he there commanded Timothe to commit also to other faithful men, such as should be able and meet to teach, to th'intent that they might teach the same things farther/ and which be some of such things as these heretics now bark at, that are comen fro mouth to mouth, and from hand to hand, from the apostles days unto our own.  
It is a much less thing also, to believe ourself to be bounden to do a thing of necessity, without authority of scripture/ then to think ourself without scripture unbounden and in no necessity to do the thing which we find commanded in scripture. But we find commanded in scripture, first by the law of nature, and after in the law written the old law with a cause annexed for vyolating of nature, and after again by the apostles as I have rehearsed in the new law the xu of the acts, that men should abstain from strangled, and from blood/ of which commandment in scripture we see no discharge but the custom of the catholic church/ & yet hath Tyndale no scruple to eat a Pudding though he see it prohibited by all the laws, and by the apostles themself, & by the holy ghost to, with like words as they forbade fornication. And discharge as I say seeth he none, but the tradition of the church/ which when he dare byleue in leaving a thing undone, that the scripture so often commandeth: why dare he not believe the tradition of the church, where it commandeth a thing to be done, that the scripture doth not forbid, but only speaketh not of it.  
I would in like wise fain wit of Tyndale, whither he think any part of christian people bounden at this day of necessity to the washing of the feet, whereof christ at his maunday gave ensample and commandment also/ not without a great threatening unto saint Peter of loss of heaven, but if he suffered him to wash his feet. I doubt not but Tyndale thinketh himself discharged of that bond/ and yet are the words of Crystes commandment in that observance, as plain as in the commandment of the sacrament of the altar/ and long was it used after in such wise/ and saint Cypryane did in his days reckon it for a thing necessary. Now let Tyndale tell me whereby he knoweth himself discharged of that washing, but by the spirit of god abiding in his church. And let him then tell me which church but his catholic church. For an unknown church can tell him nothing, and all other known churches beside the catholic be all known for heretics. Or else let Tyndale tell which of all them is the true church/ & why rather that then any of all the remanant.  
If the spirit of god governing the church, and leading it in to all troth, put us not in surety and certainty of the troth: how could he be to us as he is named paracletus, that is a comforter, if we were left so comfortele●●e that we were uncertain whither the hole church were in damnable error in stead of the right faith.  
Take away that spirit fro the church/ and how can Tyndale excuse the apostles of their baptizing in the name of christ only, when christ had himself commanded them to baptize in the name of the father and the son & the holy ghost. How will he excuse saint Poule for taking away the circumcision, which god had before commanded, and said that it should be his everlasting token and covenant, and christ kept it himself/ and saint Poule circumcyded Timothe himself, and yet afterward forbade it? how knew he when he should do the tone and when the t'other? by bare imaginations of his own mind? nay by that spirit they knew it/ which as it ruled them, so ruleth it the church in the necessary points of faith, and ever shall unto the worlds end.  
God proved will Tyndale say their doctrine with miracles. So doth he say I the doctrine of his whole church continually. For therein he worketh miracles continually/ and in all the churches of heretics is there wrought never one. weeneth Tyndale that our lord had the cure of his apostles whom he ordained for his church/ and that he hath no cure of his church for whom he made his apostles.  
And if Tyndale list so precy●ely to leanly to scripture only, that he will not take the comen catholic faith for an interpreter: he shall find it very hard to defend some such points as be not only true, but be also such as if the church would say contrary, yet would he say they were true.  
For Tyndale setteth not so much by baptism, but that he will agree that faith justifieth without baptism. And yet take away the credence of the catolyque church/ and he shall never be able while he liveth so well to prove by scripture, that a martyr may be saved and brought to heaven without baptism, but that these words of our saviour shall alway stand still in his light, Nisi quis renatu● f●erit ●● aqua & spiritu san●to, non potest introire in regnum dei. who so be not borne again of the water and the spirit, can not enter into the kingdom of heaven.  
Now where as Tyndale teacheth after his master Martin Luther, that as often as a man only repent, though he be never in mind to do penance nor be confessed neither/ his only faith shall save him, and getteth him forthwith full remission both of sin and pain: if he will give credence to the church, he shall find that faith of his full false. And if he will not give credence to the church, but precisely stand to the scripture: then shall he find yet that faith more false, if he will be bounden as precisely to the words himself as he would bind other men. For he shall never be then so well able to prove that any man falling to deadly sin after christendom once had, shallbe by any repentance restored again/ but that there will stand still in his light the words of the apostle saying, when we wilfully sin after the knowledge of the truth had, 
 there is not now left us any sacrifice for sins/ but a terrible expection and looking for of judgement, and of fierce and ragyouse fire, which shall consume the adversaries. There will also stand in this lyghe, these words of the apostle: 
He●. ●.  it is impossible that they which have been once illumyned and have ta●●● that heavenly gift, and have be made partakers of the holy ghost, and have tasted also the good word of god, and the virtues of the world to come, and are fallen down: should be renewed again to penance/ crucyfyeng again for their own part, the son of god, and having him as in de●isyon.  
If Tyndale say that he can so constre these texts as they shall not hurt his heresies: I deny not the he so may do/ & I can to so conster them●, that they shall not hurt the troth, that is to wit the catholic faith. But yet this I say, that when he and I have both done what we can/ yet who so list to hold that heresy against his repentance and the church's penance to, shall not lack words wherewith he may seem to such as will set the church at naught, to maintain his part as well as we both maintain ours. And therefore I say taking away the credence from the catholic known church (for no church unknown can be believed, sith it can not be herd/ and all other known churches be false, or else let Tyndale as I have often said tell me which of them all is the true, and why we should therein believe him, the credence therefore as I say taken from the catholic known church/ there can be no thing sure but all thing uncertain, both traditions of th'apostles, expositions of scripture, and the very scripture it self to.  
And unto the other side, if the credence of the known catholic church abide, as it needs must abide if the scripture abide, by which it is promised by christ that himself and his own holy spirit shall dwell therewith all days unto the worlds end: then be we sure not only which are the holy scriptures and the sure wholesome expositions thereof but also which are the traditions delivered unto the church by god/ of whythe some were delivered by the apostles themself, and some by his holy spirit sins. And what so ever Tyndale babble to the contrary/ god is yet at as much liberty to teach his church further what troth he will hereafter, and to deliver it what tradition he will hereafter, and to command his hole church to believe and obey him therm/ as well I say hereafter as ever he was before.  
For I would fain wit of Tyndale, if the hole church shall never believe nor do nothing as of necessity, but that is all ready written in scripture: why shall any one man be bounden to believe or do any thing as of necessity, though god bid him by mouth/ if it be not written in scripture. And if he will say, no more may any one man be bound neither: then putteth he away quite all revelations/ which I never herd any man hitherto deny, but that god may reveal and man be bounden to believe and obey. And surely if he grant that any one man may be bounden thereto: so may then for aught that I can see or aught that he can say, the hole church in like wise.  
Finally there is no doubt, but that ere the new testament was written/ men were bounden to believe things without scripture. And then sith Tyndale will nothing believe us without scripture/ and he may not look of reason that we should any more believe him without scripture than he us: let Tyndale now tell me therefore by which text of scripture in all that is written, is that bond released and discharged. And where are we either commanded or licenced nothing to believe but if it be contained in that scripture that is now written. which thing if he can not show ●as he can not in deed) then abideth that bond still to believe the things that the catholic church teacheth us as the word of god to be believed and yet unwritten as the same bond stood and bound us before, to believe those necessary things that now be written.  
Now if Tyndale answer this argument and say that he needeth not to lay forth any text of scripture dysch●rgynge us of that bond/ but that it is enough for him to prove that all thing that is of necessity is by the apostles written/ and that no such thing as we be bounden to ●●leue or do, is by themself unwritten: if Tyndale answer us thus, then is he but whe●e he was. For than shall we yet again do as he needs must, and never may bring in one text of scripture by which he may prove that all such things be written.  
which thing when he can not do/ if he will then be plain and confess the troth that he can not prove his own part, but will then bid us prove our own part/ and will tell us that like as he saith that the apostles d●d put all in writing whereof he faileth his proof, so we say that they did leave divers things unwritten/ and that of those be some of such things as the church now believeth and observeth that are not written in scripture/ and will bid us go prove him that for our part, and will say that else he is no more bounden to believe us than we be to believe him: if Tyndale will as I say confess the troth that he can not prove his own part, and therefore will bid us go prove ours/ then shall we tell him that we prove ours by the manifold plain texts of holy scripture afore remembered, both of saint John & of saint Poule/ & might yet add divers other with which Rosseus an english man hath long a go proved that point unto Luther/ and that so clearly that as Tyndale knoweth, Luther was never able to answer one word again. And I say ferther that we prove our part, that is to wit that the apostles gave things unto the church without writing, which have in the church continued beside the scripture: this I say we prove to Tyndale by the self same means, by which Tyndale proveth us that he knoweth the scripture to be the scriptures For if he will say as he sayeth in his book against me● that he knoweth the scripture by the same means that the eagle knoweth her birds/ meaning that as she knoweth them by a secret inward instinct of nature, so he knoweth the scripture by a secret inward instinct of the spirit of god: I say that we know the traditions taught by god and his apostles by the same secret inward instinct of the same spirit. But then say we farther that the same spirit did teach the church to know which was the very scripture, before it did teach y● Tyndale. And Tindale had not believed that the scripture was the scripture, if the church had not told him so. Nor the holy spirit had not wrought with Tyndale toward the belief thereof/ if Tyndale when the church told him so, had done as he doth, set the church at nought. For sins that he so hath done/ he not only believeth not the traditions of god given to his church by his apostles and his word unwritten, but also believeth less of the scripture than he did before. And I say that god by his word unwritten did teach his church to know his words written, and his traditions also, which he taught the church by his apostles/ and made the church agree therein by his spirit, which maketh men of one mind and one custom in the church, and which spirit keepeth both the words written and the words unwriten in perpetual knowledge and observance in his church/ according as the very word of god unwritten, that is his natural word of himself bygoten seeth necessary abiding with his church for ever according to his own promise. And now if Tyndale ask with which church? I say with his catholic church/ with his church in which only church he worketh miracles with his church, which he commandeth men to here and obey/ and finally with the same church, by which church Tyndale learned to know which is the scripture. which church let Tyndale tell me why he should not as well believe when it telleth him, these things the apostles did teach and d●lyuer without writing/ as he believeth it, when it telleth him these books the apostles did write.  
If nothing had be written/ Tyndale must have believed the church in all together. And why should he now for the writing of part (for that all is written ye see well he can not prove) believe the church the less in the remanant that remaineth yet unwritten/ or for that that was written at one time, believe the church the less in all that it teacheth after unwritten. which thing Tyndale doth, and that so far forth/ that where as god worketh mirycles in his church to make the chyrch● and the doctrine thereof known for true: Tyndale then under the false pretext of favour to gods writing, blasphemeth all his unwritten words, and himself to, with calling gods miracles nothing but devils wonders.  
And this dot● Tyndale/ because he would not in any wise, that the church had any credence farther than it can prove by the written words of some apostle, where he woteth well that th'apostles wrote not all that they taught, and also that god ordained his apostles for his church, and not his church for his apostles/ and doth therefore more esteem and more set by his church, then by any of his apostles, or all the whole twelve together. And yet will not Tyndale believe for god's word any thing that the church teacheth for his word, but if he find it written in holy scripture/ where as if he believe not the church, he can never tell of any part of scripture whither it be holy scripture or not.  
But his dealing well declareth wherefore he would have nothing believed without scripture. The cause is none other but because he would have nothing believed of no man but what he list himself. For he will not stick to deny some part of holy scripture for holy scripture/ and expowne all the remanant in such false foolish fashion, that among his other hundred heresies, he would make us so mad to believe that freres may wed nōnes● and that no man should worship the precious body & holy blood of christ in the blessed sacrament of the altar.  
And finally thus ye see that Tyndale and such other as would have us reject and refuse all that god hath taught his church, but if it be proved by scripture: be not only unable to prove or defend that heresy/ but also do handle the scripture it self in such a shameful wise, that if other men whom they reprove did not handle it better, it had been better to have left all together unwritten, and never had scripture at all. And we must needs perceive that without the belief and credence given unto the catholic church of christ we could be sure of nothing, but that as saint Paul saith, the church is the pillar and strength of the truth.  
And thus end I my third book, containing the answer of his two special chapters/ the tone, whither the word were before the church, or the church before the word/ and the t'other, whither the apostles left any thing unwritten, necessary to soul health. In which two points as gloryousely as he glytered in his own y●e: every man seeth now how fowl a fall he hath/ whereby more than half of his heresies are utterly drowned in dyr●.  
And now shall I (god willing) in my fourth book as soon as my time shall serve my/ so confute his false faith, and so show which is the church: that I shall leave Tyndale never a church for his flock/ but the church whereof the the prophet speaketh, Odivi ecclesiam malignantium, I have hated the church of malicious folk/ which church is very proper for him. For all that ever Tyndale writeth, when it is well considered: is powdered with malice toward all good men, both religious that live here in earth, & saints that are living in heaven.    
Thus endeth the third book.   

¶ The fawtes escaped in the printing.  

The fawty● in the preface.    The fawtes The amendementy●. v. leaf. ●●. side A. v●. taking talking vj. leaf A. xii. death Hytton death of Hytton the same lief C.x. to an fro to and fro seven. lefe.ii.●yde B. xii. Thymas Thomas viii. leaf B. xiiij.i● England in England the same lief ii side A. i●. and that and some that ix. leaf A. ix. according to unto according unto x. lefe.ii.syde B. iiij. t'has that xiv. leaf A. ij. And this And to this xuj. leaf B. iij. ●efte fefte  

¶ The fawtes in the Book.  ●. C.viij. then them ix. A.j. is that the is the ix. C.j. self false xxvii●. A. uj. n ned thirty. C.xiiij. man manner thirty. C.xiiij. penaus penances xxxj. C.vi savaunt servant xxxii●. B. xi●. uncharmed charmed xl. B.j. k ked xlii●. A. uj. acco●●yng the according to ●he l●. B.u. la●●ed lambeth lij. A. xi. i● i● i●● liiij. B. xiiii. lo●t le●t lxv. C.xiiii. fight le●acyon sight of the levation lxxxix. A. viii. xv. C. viii. C. xc. C.ix preserve persecute xciii. B. xii. god good xcv. C.ii thank thanked xcix. B. xi. and all at all cxxxi. B. iii. neither either cxxxvi. C.vi beech beseech cxl. A. xi. holy hole cl. C.xiiii. rather this rather than this clxxxiiii. B.i. every man to man perceive every man to perceive clxxxviii. C.i. unto him unto them cxcuj. C.xiiij. themself them himself cc. B. iii. ever hath synny● ever synny● ccx. B. seven. may marry ccx. C.iii every may every man may ccxv. B.u. neythe neither ccxvi. A.u. not care not ccxix. B. iii. every very ccxx●ii. C.xii argument agreement ccxl●iii B. seven. if any of any ccxl●iii. B. viii apofile apofiles ccxlvi. B. seven. for me fro me cclxv. B. xii. unwritten otherwise unwritten any otherwise cclx●ii. A. iii. teach teach cclxxii. A.u. say ●● say it cclxxiii. B. two. at all and all cclxxvii. B. iiii. bowle● bowels ccxc. C.u. be neither be no nother ccxcii. A.u. juspicite S●rutamin● cccvii. A. ix. heretic heretics cccxiiii. A. xi cononyke canonyke cccxv. B. vi. them him cccxvi. C. xii●. where were ccxxi. B. ix. thy● lygh● ●ye lygh● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈…〉 〈…〉