The second part of the confutation of Tyndals' answer In which is also confuted the church that Tyndale deviseth.  
And the church also that frere Barns deviseth.  
Made by sir Th●mas More knight.  
¶ Prentyd at London By wyllyam Rastell.  
1533  
CUM PRIVILEGIO.   

¶ The fourth book,  

¶ whither the church can err.  Tyndale. 
THere is another question, whither the church may err. Which if ye understand of the pope and his generation/ is verily as hard a question as to ask whither he that hath both his eyes out be blind or no, or whither it be possible for him that hath one leg shorter than another, to halt.  More. 
WHo would not now ween that this man had a plain clear open cause and easy to defend/ when that even in the beginning in so few words, he concludeth all the matter at once/ and that with ensamples so plain and evident, that every man must needs agree them to be trew● But when ye shall again see, that his ensamples are no more lightsome, then v●lyke the matter that he resembleth them unto/ and that he either of wiliness will not, or for lack of wit can not perceive and see the point that he should touch: then shall every wise man well perceive and see, that his solemn show of such confidence in his evil cause, is nothing but a plain proclamation made by his own mouth, of his own rebuke and shame.  
For here would I wit what thing Tyndale meaneth, by the pope and pope's generation. If he mean his carnal kindred, or the pope and his cardinals either: he than winketh of wiliness, and will not see the mark. For he knoweth very well that neither of these is the thing that we call the church, when we speak of the catholic church of christ that can not err.  
If he mean by the pope and his generation, all the crystens nations not being cut of nor cast out for their obstinate malice, nor of wilfulness departing out by seditious schisms: then seeth he the mark at the lest wise. But then while he saith that all these nations may and hath all this viii hundred year, so entirely fallen in to heresies and damnable errors, that by all this viii hundred years last passed unto Luther's days, nor yet unto this day neither, there hath been no one known congregation any where, wherein the professing of the very right catholic faith of christ hath been so surely kept, that it might there be surely learned and known: then I say Tyndale is as blind as he that lacketh both his eyes/ in that he seeth not that by this way he maketh our saviour christ that is very truth to say very false, where he saith I am with you to the end of the world/ & would make him far overseen, 
●atth. 28.  where he commanded that who so would not here the church, 
Matth. 1●.  should be reputed and taken as paynims and Publicans/ and in many a plain text of scripture more, as I have before showed, as well in my dialogue as mine other three former books of this present work, and yet hereafter shall further.  
Moreover, if Tyndale say that all this known corpse of christendom, have all these viii hundred year been in a wrong belief/ where hath been all this while the right congregation of Tyndals' church, that hath h●● the true belief? And let him tell us then, which congregation it was, or where any such is yet, of whom we may surely learn the true faith and true virtues.  
If he say that it hath been among these, and was in this church but not of this church/ but they have lurked there a few faithful folk, among the great many multitude of the faithless, and have ever been to the world and outward sight of man unknown/ not so much known as one of them to another, but yet very well known to god: to this, besides that if they have lain all this while lurking therein, they have be then idolaters by their own judgement, in image service and praying to saints (if Tyndals' doctrine be the true faith) and stark hypocrites in being of one belief in their hearts, and pretending another, both in their words and deeds/ and beside diverse other invincible reasons, with which I have all ready reproved that fond opinion in the second book of my dialogue, where unto Tyndale hath made so bare answer that it had been more wisdom for him to have let it all alone and meddle nothing therewith, as every child almost may well perceive that list to look on them both, and advisedly compare them together, as I shall myself set it forth unto them when god shall after other things done give me time to come thereto/ and beside divers other arguments evident and plain, which I partly have, partly shall allege and bring forth in this present work: this one can he never avoid while he liveth, that god had then left every man perplexed in doubt and out of certainty, what way he might surely take and cleave unto, either in the doctrine of faith or knowledge of vertuose living.  
For if he say that we need no known company, but every man may read the scripture himself: every man he woteth well can not read, nor every man understand it though he have it in his own tongue/ but by the reading without a reder, may soon fall into the damnable error of Arrius, helvidius, and many another heretic more/ which of the scripture thorough their own pride took occasion of their heresies.  
If he then say that of that unknown congregation, we may have a true reder: where shall I seek him, and whereby shall I know him/ if I happen on him, how shall I be sure? For in this great known congregation, we be safe against all such apparel. For we be all agreed upon the necessary articles of the faith. And if any would preach and teach the contrary/ as he that would percase teach that confession is not necessary, and that penance needeth not, and that of the vii sacraments .v. serve of nought, and the sixth of almost as little/ and that of the seventh all christian nations be, and all this xu hundred year have been in a very damnable error: he that thus would preach and teach such habomynable heresies as now Tyndale doth, he may be soon controlled, accused and corrected/ except he run away as Tyndale doth.  
And whereby can we be sure that his teaching which is accused, is false and theirs true that correct him/ but by that we be sure that the comen faith of the catholic church is true/ and that the catholic known church can not err in that faith, which from hand to hand hath been taken & kept from Crystes days and his apostles hitherto. which faith must needs be true by Crystes promise made unto his apostles, as teachers of his church, and not for themself but for his church/ that is to wit, 
Matth. 16.  the faith that saint Peter professed should not fail, and that god would be with them all days unto the end of the world. 
Matth. 28.  And that the faith of the known catholic church, that corre●teth the false faith of the false preachers and heretics, is the same faith which the holy doctors of Crystes church in every age have believed and taught: saint Jerome, saint Austeyne, saint Ambrose, saint Chrysosteme, ●aynte Gregory, and saint Cypryane do well and clearly testify by their books. For which holy doctors our lord hath showed many a wonderful miracle.  
These things and many other maketh us sure, that the preacher which prechyth against the faith of this congregation is a false preacher, and a false wryther and wrester of holy scripture/ how solemnly so ever he paint it.  
And if we were not sure by these means, that the faith of this known catholic congregation is true/ how should I be sure of the preacher of that unknown congregation, which Tyndale calleth the church. How should I know I say whither the preacher say true or not. For he hath no known congregation to reprove him or allow him the surety whereof might make me sure that he saith true or false.  
But then must I saith Tyndale, try him by the truth of scripture. what if I be unlearned? what if I can read & have it in my language, and yet understand it but slenderly? what if I be well learned, and the false preacher as well learned as I though he were no better: yet he shall have text against text, and gloze against gloze/ and when shall we then agree? Or if I give place to him or he to me/ how shall yet the number of unlearned hearers be satisfied with our doubtful disputations, if they were not sure by the common faith of the known catholic church, which of us lied ere ever we came together. By which they that never red any scripture/ be now by the holy ghost that hath planted the true faith in his catholic church (the holy doctors whereof have in every age been approved by miracles) so inwardly sure of the truth, that a poor simple woman if Tyndale and I brought the troth in debate and question, and that I were waxen so mad to grant him that his false heresies were true/ she would not let to believe and say so to, that we were two mad fools and false heretics both.  
And that this is true shall much the better apere when we well examine and consider what congregation Tyndale calleth the catholic chyrch●.  Tyndale. 
I say that Crystes elect church is the hole multitude of all repenting sinners that believe in christ, and put all their trust and confidence in the mercy of god/ feeling in their hearts that god for Crystes sake loveth them and will be or rather is merciful unto them, and forgiveth them their sins of which they repent/ and that he forgiveth them also all the motions unto sin, of the which they fe●e lest they should thereby be drawn into sin again. And this faith they have without all respect of their 〈◊〉 deservings/ ye and for none other cause then that the merciful truth of god the father which can not lie, hath so promised and so sworn.  More. 
Now hath Tyndale here defined and describe us what he called the church. And for as much as his title is of his chapter, the question whither the church can ●rre/ and that he now for the clering of the question, declareth that there be two churches, the tone which he saith that we take for the ch●●●he which he calleth the pope and his generation, and say●● that there is no doubt but that church bo●●e may ●rre and in deed so doth/ and th● other church chyche himself calleth the very church; is this that he now defyn●th: it would s●me that he would affirm that this church which himself describeth, were the church that can not err. wherein what his final and resolute sentence is, ye shall in his other chapters hereafter following, at a long length very scantly perceive/ except his words be somewhat opened and a little more clearly declared, then as it appeareth by his writing, himself would they should be/ and nevertheless I trust they shall be.  
wherefore to th'end ye may the better understand where about he goeth/ & that he longeth to le●e us in darkness, and feed us forth with his high solemn follies that he would were not understanden: let us a little examine the parties of his definition and description of the church.  
where he saith that Crystes elect church, is the hole multitude of all repentant sinners, that have the conditions further expressed in his description: we must first ask him how taketh he there this word electe● It had been good reason that he should have declared, whither he mean elect and chosen as our saviour. christ did elect and choose his church and congregation out of the Jews and the gentiles, to be dedicate unto his service/ after which manner he first elected and chose his twelve apostles though they were not all finally good, of whose election he said, ye have not elected me but I have elected you/ and also said unto them, 
johan. 15. johan. 6.  Have I not elected and chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil: or else that he mean by the elect church the church of the final elects and predestynates to glory, being there unto predestynate in the prescience and purpose of god before the creation of the world.  
This point whither he mean that his hole multitude of repenting synners●●e the tone elect church or the t'other, hath he not expressed/ but h●th left us at large to guess and arede upon 〈◊〉 dark riddles after following, which of these two 〈…〉 m●ane●h. How be it for thirteenth that I can see his descrypcyō●greeth with neither of them bothe●  
For as for the first ●y●de of elec●yon, a●ter which christ hath chosen his catholic chy●che out o● the jews ●nd gentiles to be his c●●●che herein 〈…〉 this kind 〈◊〉 there penyt●ntes ●nd i●pe●ytentes ●●the. For penite●●es are accounted among ●he good/ and in this ●●y●che ●e there both good and bad, as our saviour showeth himself in the parables both of the field with good corn & cockle, 
Matth. 13. Matt●. 1ST  and also the net with fishes good and bad/ and the scripture showeth by the arch of Noah with beasts clean and unclean/ and christ with his aforesaid words to his apostles: 
johan. 6.  Have I not chosen you twelve and one of you is a devil.  
Now as for the elect church of predestynates if he speak thereof, as it may be verified in every time sith it begun as he must if he speak to the purpose/ then are there therein accounted not only repenting sinners, but sinners also, some that yet repent them not, & some also that never did the thing whereof they should repent/ as was our blessed lady while she lived here, and our saviour himself also for any sin of himself. For he was never penitent sinner/ but being synlesse himself, painfully paid for ours. So is not the elect church all repenting sinners only, except that either christ were no man or wer● also a sinner, or else his manhed not part of this church, but the church of predestynates' heedless. And in this I speak of that elect church of predestynates, concerning only the congregation of such as shallbe saved in the kind of man. For as for to consider angels therein, is very far fro this matter.  
yet are there also in this church of elects many that never came to the faith, but are yet enemies there unto/ as jews, Saracenes, or Turks, not yet converted unto the faith. And therefore this elect church will in no wise agree with the definition or description of Tyndale. I would that he therefore to give his matter more light, had showed us as I say, which kind of election he meaneth.  
How be it we shall guess at his mind as near as we can and make the best of his matter/ and than see whither the best be able to stande● He may seem to mean by Crystes elect church of his descriptions a part of the elect church of the second manner/ that is to wit as many thereof as be repentant sinners with those other conditions that are expressed in his description. For other than this I can not divine what he should mean. But then as those repentant sinners be a part of the church predestinate/ so be they a part of this catholic church here militant after the fy●st kind of election, in which are both good and bad/ of which hole number the good are the tone part.  
yet leaveth he us after this way in another doubt/ whither the repenting sinners may afterward fall to sin again, and from repentance and so to repentance again, and yet again therefro. He leaveth us also in doubt whither this elect church of his description may be deceived & err or not. For in these two points he wrappeth us up with riddles, that he giveth us to read in other chapters how they may sin and yet sin not, err and yet err not/ and readeth his riddles himself also so fond, that an old wife would be ashamed to read such redles so foolishly by the fire side among young children. And yet in this one point whither the church may err or not, is in effect all the hole matter and purpose of his book.  
And finally for all that ever he saith/ he leaveth it in doubt whither his repentant sinners, sith he granteth that though they may not sin yet they may sin, and that in likewise though they can not err yet they can err, be of this elect church of his description in these times only in which they sin not nor err not/ or else in all those times to, in which they both sin and err. And here speak I of such sin as is of his nature deadly, though the soul die not by eternal damnation therefore/ because he repenteth that sin again ere he die. And I speak of that error also, which is of his nature fynfull and damnable though the soul suffer not eternal damnation therefore/ because he repenteth that error afterward, and returneth again to the truth ere ever his body die.  
Of all these dowtes the more part he never moveth/ and such as he moveth in other chapters after, he so fondly soileth, that all the world may see that he nothing seeketh but corners to trepe in, where he may lusk and lurk in the dark/ out of which we shall I trust so bring him in to the light, that his eyen shall dase to look thereon  
But in the mean while this ye see, that how so ever he mean by the elect church of his repentant sinners, with all the feeling faith that he can frame thereto: yet sith men can never know which be they, there can no man have any surety by that church of the true doctrine of god/ no more than a man could by that unknown church know which is the true scripture of god. And therefore is this elect church of Tyndals' description devised only to ●ugle withal, and to deceive our sight, and not to serve in this matter to any substantial purpose.  
But yet that it can not only do no good, but is also dreamed out by him to do much harm: ye shall plainly perceive, if ye consider what repentance and what faith he meaneth. For these words will sown very well in the ears of such simple souls, as do not while they read them consider what manner things Tyndale meaneth by them, and what thing he calleth repentance and believing in christ with a feeling faith. But on the other side/ he that considereth that Tyndale would have us so to believe in christ, that we should set his holy sacraments at nought, and that we should believe that all christian people have hitherto believed wrong, that have believed that men ought to be shriven, or rec●yue any penance at the priests hand, or that have believed that there is any purgatory after this present life, or that put any faith in the sacrament of the aultare, or any other thing believe thereof then that it is only a sign memorial and token of Crystes death and passion, and that every man is in a false belief that will any other honour do thereto then only this bare belief/ whereof plainly followeth that once to kneel or pray thereto were open and plain idolatry/ and that he would have us also believe that to say the mass with the holy canon therein, as all christian realms do, and so many hundred years have done were heinous deadly sin/ and that it were sin also to believe that man by good works wrought in faith, any reward meryteth toward god/ or finally that any of the old holy doctors of Crystes church, sins Crystes days and his apostles hitherto, were in the right belief before holy Luther's days and his own/ for sure am I that there was never none of all them that in belief did agree with these twain, nor these twain between themself: he that this feeling faith considereth in Tyndals' teaching, shall soon feel that all his holy solemn tale of all his feeling faith is not worth a fly, but very faithless heresy.  
And also when he heareth him so sayntly speak of repenting/ and than considereth that he would have us repent that ever we were shriven (for shrift he calleth the false invention of Satan) and would have us also to be such as repent that ever they were of the right belief, and such as would have freres and nuns repent their religion and run out and wed together: he that considereth this, shall I say see that Tyndals elect and chosen church, is a church of chosen heretics, of contrary belief to the church of which saint Hierom was a doctor, and saint austin, and saint Gregory, and saint Ambrose, and all the other old holy fathers from the apostles days hitherto/ or else must Tyndale tell us once again, some one of all them that believed it lawful, for a monk or a frere professed unto perpetual chastity, to run out of religion and go wed a nun.  
Now am I glad yet that he cometh forth with repentance, at the lest wise one way or other. For faith alone was wont to do all thorough all a man's life. And when it was proved them by plain and evident scripture, that faith could not avail without charity/ then fell they to gloze it and say, that faith could never be without it. And then being therein reproved plainly by saint Poule and saint jamys both/ yet stand they still by their word, 
1. Cor. 13.  
jacobi. 2.  & defend their words only by words against all reason, & against the plain words of god not unwritten which they set not by, but the very written words in plain and evident scriptures, for all that they say they believe no thing else. And in that point I believe them well and in more to. For where they say that they believe nothing but scripture, I think they say true/ for they believe no thing beside the scripture, nor yet the scripture neither, as their own writings do full clearly declare.  
But now sith they say still that faith alone sufficeth, and yet say that there must be charity to/ and now say there must be repentance to: they say none other thing in effect, but that it is mough to have faith alone if a man have other virtues to/ and that it sufficeth to have faith alone, so that faith be not alone: for and it be alone then is it no faith at all. Is not this another goodly riddle, whereby Tyndale teacheth all thing plainly?  
Nor this point will never be well patched with his feeling faith and historical, as ye shall hereafter here when we come to the chapter.  
But yet again in the mean while, because he speaketh of repentant sinners, that they make the elect church of christ: I would wit of him whither one part of repenting must not be to repent heresies. If not/ then Crystes elect church may keep them still, and be a church of heretics. And on the other side, if a man must repent his heresies: then ask I Tyndale again, how shall an unlearned man know which they be. The preacher shall tell them saith Tyndale. So say we to. But what if the preachers do not agree therein/ how shall he know the true preachers fro the false? Let him look on the scripture saith Tyndale, and thereby shall he judge them by the right rule of the word of god. But thereto I say, that, all thing that we be bounden to believe and observe is not written in scripture, as I have in the third book more than plainly by the plain scripture proved. And besides that, unlearned men are not able, nor every learned man neither, surely to discern and judge the true sense of the scripture, in a great thing grown in debate and controversy, where plain texts of scripture seem to speak for both the sides. And therefore it must needs be, that there is by god provided and left some such surety, as may bring us out of all such perplexity. And that is as I have said, his holy spirit sent and left perpetually with his church, to lead it so by his own promise ever into all necessary troth, 
Io●●. 16.  that who so here and believe his church, may be sure that he can not be deceived/ but that if a false teacher would lead men out of the right faith, the church of christ shall reprove him and condemn him, and put the people in certainty. 
1. Ti●●●●. ●.  For which cause saint Poule saith that the church is the firm ●tablyssh●mente and the pillar of troth for the inviolable surety of doctrine. And therefore that can never be no church but a known church.  
But than saith Tyndale, that it is true that there is all surety in the church of christ. But he saith that the chyrch● of christ is only the number of repenting sinners, that have the feeling faith which himself describeth. Then we ask him whereby shall a man know them, and be sure of them/ so that he may use them for his sure and undoubtable judges between the two contrary preachers, of which the tone is true the other false.  
It maketh no matter saith he, though ye know them not. How shall I then be put in surety by them, but if I know that they be the church with whom god promised to leave his holy spirit/ and whom he willed every man to here and to obey. ye shall perceive it saith he, by that ye see they be good men, and show the frewtes of faith in their living. I can not be thereby sure/ sith an hypocrite may fain them. And also himself granteth after in his chapter, that they sin and yet sin not/ so that though they sin not because of their feeling faith, and their repentance following: yet they may right often do sin, in such wise that they may do and in deed do many such abominable deeds, as men be hanged for and worthy for much less/ and such that themself should for the same, saving for their feeling faith be dampened in hell perpetually/ from which none historical faith could keep them, as Tyndale saith.  
Now than if he say true/ it is impossible for me to know the elect church of feeling faithful repentant sinners, to take the sure judgement by.  
Then if he walk as it were in a maze, and come to the first point again, and say it forcheth not, for they shall be discerned by the scripture itself: that gap have I so stopped all ready, that he shall stick still at a stake & rest his bones in the bushes ere ever he get out there. wherefore when he shall see himself unable to defend his own chosen unknown church, in the point in which it should specially serve, that is for the sure teaching of the true faith: he shall then find none other shift, but to look whither he might make the catholic known church to fall in the like default/ and shall ask us how we do know the true church of christ, by whose doctrine we may be sure of the right belief. where unto we shall answer, that therein can no man be deceived. For it is the common known church of all christian people, not gone out nor cast out. This hole body both of good and bad is the catholic church of christ, which is in this world very sikely● & hath many sore members/ as hath sometime the natural body of a man, and some sore astonied, and for a time cold and deed/ which yet catcheth heat and life again, if it be not precyded and cut of from the body.  
This catholic known church is that mystical body be it never so sick, whereof the principal head is christ. Of which body whither the successor of saint Peter be his vicar general and head under him, as all christian nations have now long taken him/ is no part of this question. For to this matter it is enough, that this body mystical of christ this catholic church, is the body that is animated, hath life spiritual, & is inspired with the holy spirit of god that maketh them of one faith in the house of god, 
Psalmo. 67.  by leading them in to the consent of every necessary troth of revealed faith, be they in conditions & manners never so sick, as long as they be conformable & content in unity of faith, to cleave unto the body.  
Of this church can we not be deceived, nor of the right faith can we not be deceived while we cleave to this church/ sith this church is it in to which god hath given his spirit of faith, & in this church both good & bad profess one faith. For if any profess the contrary faith, be it any one man or any one country: they be controlled, noted, and rep●ou●d by the hole body & soon known from the body. Now if it happen any privy heretics to lurk in this body, yet all the while, they agree with the body in open profession of faith, & teach no thing contrary/ they can not beguile us, though they may by secret heresies of their hearts, sinfully deceive themself. And when they teach the contrary/ then are they as I say reproved openly by the body/ & either reform & cured, or else cut of fro the body and casten out thereof. So that this church is known well enough/ & therefore may be well used as a sure judge, for to decern between the true doctrine & the false, and the true preacher & false, concerning the right faith and the decerning of the true word of god written of unwritten, from the counterfete word of man/ and in the decerning of the right understanding of the scripture of god, as farforth as of necessity pertaineth unto salvation.  
And this advantage that I speak of have we, by y● that this church is known/ where as Tyndals chosen church of repenting sinners we can never know them, but if we see them walk in our church in procession with a candle before the cross, or stand before the pulpit with a faggot in their nekkes. And yet can we not know them so neither/ for they may seem repentant openly, and yet think in their hearts full shrewdly, as they commonly do. Now whereby we shall be sure that this known catholic church, is the very true church that is to be believed/ & that no man may be surely believed the agreeth not with the faith of this church/ all be it I have both in my dialogue & in sundry places of my iii former books of this psent work, well & plainly ꝓued you: yet shall I finally before I fynysshe this work by such clear open marks & tokens show you with evident reason & plain scripture furnished, that no child shall after need any thing to doubt thereof.  
But now consider in the mean while, that Tyndals' definition or description of the church, by which he calleth it the number of all repenting sinners with all his other conditions adjoined thereunto/ is first full of darkness. And when it is opened ● it agreed neither with one church nor other. And yet is it by another point of his own false doctrine, utterly destroyed. For he teacheth plainly, that who so ever do after baptism sin once of purpose willingly, & not only of weakness and infirmity, he shall never be saved/ but all his repentance after, though he trust never so much in god, & have after never so sure faith in him, shall never serve him to salvation but he shallbe finally dampened as I shall show you further after. And then ye see plainly, that his definition of his elect church, is by his own doctrine destroyed. For the elect church can not be the number of all repenting sinners that trust to be saved in Crystes passion, if some such repenting sinners shall never be saved by his passion as Tyndale plainly lieth. And therefore sith he hath failed of his definition of the church, and thereby lost and spilled all his purpose: let us now consider whither he handle any more wisely the remanant of his goodly matter.  Tyndale. 
This faith have they without all respect of their own deservings/ ye and for none other cause, then that the merciful truth of god the father which can not lie, hath so promised and so sworn.  More. 
I doubt not good readers but ye remember well, that all the doctrine of Crystes church is full of warning, that no man should put a proud trust and confidence in his own works, nor once think that he can of himself alone without gods gracious help, do any good work at all/ and great cause hath to fere and mistrust all his own works, for unperfect circumstances seldom perceived by himself. And also that in all that a man may do he doth but his only duty/ and that the best work were nought worth to heavenward of the nature of the work it self, ne were it for the liberal goods of god, that listeth so highly to reward it/ and yet would not reward it so, saving for the passion of his own son. All these things and many such other more be so daily taught and preached in the church/ that I trust in good faith that almost every good old wife can tell them.  
And therefore it appeareth well that Tyndale varieth not with us for so far/ but that he meaneth a far further thing, where he saith that the elect church trusteth so utterly to be forgiven all sin & motions unto sin, without any respect of their own deserving/ & plainly meaneth therein (as in other places also he plainly declareth himself, which I have in my former books proved and reproved) not only that men should not need, but also that it were sin to go about any good work wrought with grace in faith, to deserve any thing toward the getting of full and perfayt forgiveness.  
To this point cometh Tyndals holy feeling faith, that feeleth alway full forgiveness, without any regard or respect of man's own endeavours deserve it. This false feeling faith hath Tyndale taken of Luther/ when he and all the rabble of their sect say, that faith of necessity bringeth forth good wurkes, as the fruit of the tree of faith. And yet they say the good wurkes be nought worth and thereby make they that tree of faith little better. For what good tree can that be, whereof the good fruit is nought worth.  
But Tyndale and Luther both lie loud in both the points. For both may a man have the right faith idle and workelesse, and therefore deed and fruitless. Deed I say, not in the nature and substance of belief a faith/ but deed as to the attaining of salvation. And also good works wrought in faith, hope, and charity, be very profitable toward obtaining of forgiveness and getting reward in heaven/ except the scripture of god be false, 
Ecc●●●ias●icae. 3.  when it saith that as the water quencheth fire, so doth almose deed avoid sin/ and except our saviour himself say false, where he saith, 
●uc●. 11.  give your superfluous substance in almose, and then lo are ye all clean. And in like wise where he promiseth reward in heaven in sundry plain places of scripture, 
M●t●●. 1●.  for good works done here in earth. 
●uc●. 1●.   
Now if Tyndale answer, that the good works be nothing worth of themself, nor without faith, as he answereth me in his answer to the third book of my dialogue: then may every child see that he is driven to the hard wall, & fain to seek a shameful shift. For what thing is thirteenth worth of it self to hevenward, without god's grace and the great goodness of god? No fiery charity, though men would burn for god's sake, could deserve heaven of it self without the liberal goodness of god. For as saint Poule saith, 
Roma. 8.  the passions of this world be not worthy to win the glory to come, that shallbe showed upon us.  
And if he say that good works be nought worth, because they be nought worth without faith/ so might he as well say the faith were nought worth, because it is nought worth without charity. So that ye may plainly see that he seeketh nothing but shifts/ which will yet serve of nought when he hath all together done.  
For ye may finally perceive, that though every man may well fere that the works which himself hath done seemed they never so good, were yet for some lack upon his part in the doing, so unperfyt in the deep secret sight of god, that they were unworthy to serve him or be any thing rewarded/ and also that were they never so pure & perfit, they were not yet worthy ●uche reward but of gods liberal goodness: yet is it a very false faith and a pestilent heresy, to believe as Tyndale here teacheth us, that god will save such as may work without any respect or regard unto their deserving/ as though he wrought not whither they did good or ill, but will save all such as him list do they what they list, only because him list/ and that himself so listeth for none other cause, but only because he hath so promised and sworn.  
For surely, neither is the promise the cause as I have in mine other book showed/ but the goodness of god which caused him so to promise. Nor also he hath not so sworn nor so promised neither, that he will save man without any regard of good wurkes/ but hath both promised & sworn the clean contrary, that but if we work well if we may, 
Psalmo. 100LS.  or repent that we did not and be in purpose to do/ else shall our faith stand us in little stead, 
Matthei. 25.  but greatly aggrieve and increase the pain of our damnation. And now that his faith is proved very plain false and faithless/ it is a world to see how rially he runneth forth in the praise, as though it were proved true.  Tyndale. 
And this faith and knowledge is everlasting life/ and by this we be borne a new, and made the sons of god, and obtain forgiveness of sins, and are translated from death to life, and from the wrath of god unto his love and favour. And this faith is the mother of all troth, and bringeth wy●h her the spirit of all truth, which spirit purgeth us as from all sy●●e, even so from all lies and error noisome and hurtful. An● this f●yth is the foundation laid of the apostles and prophets, whereon Paul saith Ephe. 2. that we are bylte, and thereby of the household of god. And this faith is the rock whereon christ bylte his congregation.  More. 
Lo what a praise he hath made you of this faith, that feeleth that folk should need to do no good works. How he calleth it everlasting life to come, to the bare knowledge of that faith that shall take away from us all respect and regard of deserving any reward or thank, the rather for any good wurkes. For if men might have any such respect/ then were it great apparel lest men would fall the more to do them. For other great apparel I see none, considering that we be well taught to put no proud confidence in them, but refer all the thank of them to god by whose help and grace we do them.  
Now wot ye well that no good man can deny, but that for lack of such wurkes men shall be dampened, as christ saith himself in the gospel. 
Matt●. 25.  And hard it were that the good nature of god being more ready to reward then to punish/ would punish us for the lacking and not reward us for the having/ namely sith himself saith in the same gospel, 
Matt●. 25.  that he shall give men heaven for their almose ded.  
But Tyndale as he denieth the tone, so denieth he the t'other to, and with some fond gloze will avoid the gospel and all/ and than go boldly forth with his faith & boast it, and say this faith and knowledge is everlasting life. But all faithful folk will say again, this faith and knowledge is everlasting death. For this faith hath Luther and frere Huskyn both, and yet be far from everlasting life. For beside that abominable heresy itself, against all regard of good wurkes/ they be not agreed in belief concerning the sacrament of the altar/ the tone believing it to be very breed ● the t'other no thing loweth else but breed, and false both twain. And Tyndale followeth the falser of them both. And so this faith delivereth them not fro lies, besides that they both and Tyndale with them, do believe if they lie not, that it is lawful for monks & freres to break their vowed chastity and run out and wed nuns. which point of false faith, is no part of the foundation that the apostles builded upon/ but saint Poule preached the contrary, saying that vowed widows willing to wed should have damnation/ by cause they had frustrated and broken their forma● faith, 
1. Timoth. 5.  that is to wit their faith given to god in their vow of abstinence from all carnal knowledge of man/ against which faith they would now wed, and give a second faith unto man in marriage. But now goth Tindale forth with his tale, & would seem to prove it true by scripture.  Tyndale. 
christ asked his apostles Matth. 17. whom they took him for. And Peter answered for them all saying, I say that thou art christ the son of the living god, that art come in to this world. That is, we believe that thou art he that was promised unto Abraham, should come and bless us and deliver us. How be it Peter yet wist not by what means/ but now it is opened thorough out all the world, that thorough the offering of his body and blo●e  More. 
Here is it necessary that every wise reder mark well & consider, the cause and purpose of Tyndale, in bringing in this confession of saint Peter's faith/ where he said thou art christ the son of the living god, that art comen into this world.  
ye shall understand that Tyndale and his master Marten and his fellows, for as much as they be fallen from the right belief in many great articles of our faith/ and considering that with such slender proofs as Tyndale bringeth for his part, and thereto so plainly reproveth, every good christian man that any care hath of his own soul willbe sore afraid to put it in iuperdye of damnation by falling in any point from the faith of Crystes hole catholic church, for the word of a fond wedded frere or any fond fellow of his: he deviseth here to take a way that fere, and to make m●n believe at the lest wise, that so a man believe the thing that Peter then confessed/ it sufficeth enough for salvation, though he believe no further articles beside. And thus far sufficeth for him, to make folk the less afeard to draw toward him. But bringing us once so far forward/ then will he further for his purpose say, that not only no man is bounden upon damnation to believe any more, but that further it is damnable in some things to believe more/ and that in some things it neither availeth nor hurteth to believe any more. And therefore it is wisdom to stay well ourself in the beginning. For Tyndale saith, as I have in my first book showed you, many things against diverse of the sacraments, which he saith is deadly sin to believe. And here he putteth for faith enough, the faith that saint Peter confessed. And in his chapter answered in my thighed book of this work, whither the apostles left any thing unwritten that were necessary to salvation/ there saith he that to believe or not believe the assumption of our lady or her perpetual virginity and many such other more, is but a belief of an history and nothing doth pertain unto salvation.  
And hereafter in his other chapter, how a christian man can not err and how he may yet err/ in that chapter he saith that the very christian men can not err in any thing that should be against the promises which are in christ/ and in other things their errors be not unto damnation, though they be never so great. whereof he by and by putteth ensample of the perpetual virginity of our lady/ in the not belief whereof he saith that a man being led of ignorance by the words of the gospel, to believe that she were not a perpetual virgin, might in case for lack of the contrary teaching die in that miss belief and yet take none harm thereby, because it hurteth not the redemption that is in Crystes blood. For though she had none but christ. I am (saith Tyndale) therefore ne●er the more saved, neither yet the less though she had had/ and in such like an hundredth t●at pricketh not a man's faith from christ, they might err and yet be never the less saved, though the contrary were written in the gospel.  
Lo here have I well-beloved readers, no thing letted partly to repeat again his words written in his other chapter before, partly to anticypate his words written in his oath chapter. After which words of his I have out of both places taken into this/ to the intent that all be it I partly have and partly shall, touch them in their own proper places: yet ye should see the hole sum and effect of this tale concerning the faith before your face laid together. which he draweth in pieces and pulleth into sundry parts/ because he would by his will feign steel away from us in the dark and leave us without any plain perceiving of his ungracious mind.  
But now that I have laid in effect all his hole opinion together as touching the faith (saving his only difference and division of historical faith and feeling faith, which I shall reserve unto his proper place) I shall a little examine this faith of his, that ye may look thereon in the light, and see whither it be sufficient for your salvation or not.  
first in this faith that saint Peter confessed is never a word of purgatory.  
Now doubt I not but that Tyndale when he readeth this word, will well and merely laugh thereat, and say no more there needeth. For that faith will he say will put out and quench the fire of purgatory clean.  
Then will we ask him how will he laugh at the fire of hell/ for of that fire is there no thing spoken in that confession neither, but that he might for all that confession ween well enough that there were none hell. If Tyndale will say nay/ for he must needs believe that the thing from which christ the son of the living god was comen into the world to redeem mankind, must needs be hell/ and that therefore Peter's confession includeth of necessity the belief of hell: I answer Tyndale again that therein was no necessity. For Peter might believe at that time for any word that was in his confession, that Crystes coming was only to redeem us not from hell but from the loss of heaven/ from which he might think peradventure that all mankind were bannysshed unto such a place as was Limbus patrum though out of pain, yet suspyring and sighing after the sight of god and joy of heaven/ and into such estate as children live in that die unbaptysed. which though they enter not heaven, because they die the children of wrath unreconcyled: yet the merciful anger of god driveth them not down into sensible pain and to the feeling of the infernal fire.  
This faith might peradventure s●ynte Peter have, for any thing spoken of in his confessed faith/ ye and might have therewith also a belief, that for actual sins men were punished after this life some less while some longer, and yet none everlastingly/ but every man at length brought unto peace and rest though never no man to the bless of heaven, but only by crystes coming. And thus might saint Peter have rather a belief of purgatory then of hell, for any word mentioned in his confession, wherein he confesseth not the belief of either other. saint Peter also nothing there confessed of Crystes passion, dissension into hell, resurrection, nor of his ascension/ which things be not only principal points of our faith, but also some such as gods promise specially dependeth upon.  
Unto which promises Tyndale restraineth all our necessary faith. How be it of troth Tyndale restraineth ●t therein to sore. For than we be not bounden to believe that the holy ghost were equal with the father and the son, for that was no promise made unto us. And yet are we bounden to believe that truth, whereof is also nothing spoken in Peter's confessed faith.  
Therefore it will be very hard (if impossible be hard) for Tyndale to sustain that the faith which saint Peter confessed than, were sufficient to serve every cryst●n man now. And therefore let no man take any boldness upon Tyndales tale, to think as he would have him, that only the thing that Peter there confessed were enough now to believe/ and that in all other things that the church believeth, which christ and his holy spirit have taught his church sins, were but things indifferent, & no thing forced whither they were believed or not.  
Tyndale shall be constrained to come to this even by his own words, all be it that he affirmeth for fast and sure somewhat more than he may make good● For he saith that Peter meant by his words/ we believe that thou art he that was promised unto Abraam, should come and bless us and deliver us. And yet he saith, Peter wist not by what means christ should deliver us. But now it is open he saith thorough out all the world, that thorough the offering of his body and blood.  
Now if Peter at that time knew not the thing that must now needs be believed, upon pain of damnation: ye may thereby see that the faith which Peter confessed then, is not enough now for every man to be saved by/ but we be bounden to the belief also of such things as god hath revealed and made open to be believed unto his church any time sins. Or else must Tyndale tell us at what time god bade ho, and gave us leave to believe him no ferther, what so ever he would ferther say to us.  
Consider yet also that Tyndale agreeth, that the very true christian of his elect unknown church/ do believe the article of the perpetual virginity of our lady as soon as they be taught it, and knowledge their former error/ whereby he granteth that he which doth not so is no●e of the elects. Then say I that thereupon it followeth by his own words, that the article of the perpetual virginity of our lady is a necessary article of our faith.  
And thus alway must Tyndale upon his own words, confess that all the articles revealed ferther by christ unto his church, must be believed as firmly as the faith taat was by Peter confessed/ or else we be not only discharged of the belief of our ladies perpetual virginity, which Tyndale is now yet brought unware to grant for an article necessary sith it is now taught and known/ but also of the belief of Crystes death, dissension, resurrection, ascension, and of the godhead of the holy ghost, with diverse other necessary points more.  
But here it is to be considered, that saint Peter in confessing christ to be the son of the living god/ did confess the very point whereupon all the hole faith hangeth. For in that point alone he confesseth that all his doctrine must needs be believed for true, and all his commandments fulfilled. And thereupon it followeth ferther, that sith Tyndale will believe no more of his doctrine than he can find written in the scripture, 
johan. ultimo.  where as the scripture itself saith that all was never written/ nor will not also believe and obey Crystes church according to Crystes commandment/ nor will not so much as know it, 
Matth. 18.  
Lucae. 10.  but fondly frameth an unknown, whom he for lack of knowledge can neither believe nor obey: it followeth I say that Tyndale believeth no piece of the faith that saint Peter confessed. And so he doth but prattle and prate of feeling faith, without the feeling of any faith at all, or any true belief historical or other.  
And yet goth he forth in the boast of that article of the faith, which as himself confesseth was out of Peter his confession. For he saith that saint Peter was not ware of Crystes passion when he made that confession.  Tyndale. 
That offering of Crystes body and blood, is a satisfaction for the sin of all that repent, and a purchasing of what so ever they can ask to keep them in favour, and that they sin no more.  More. 
truth is it that the passion of christ and offering up of himself unto his father upon the cross, is a satisfaction for the sin of all that repent/ so that we repent a right and effectually, by confession, contrition, and by penytencyall deeds/ revenging our sins upon ourself with good works of charity, the more largely increased toward our neighbours, doing fruitful penance, bringing forth the fruits of penance, and according to the counsel of saint Iohn baptist, 
Matthei. 3.  not sleight fruits, simple, and single, but fruits good, great, and worthy/ and yet not of themself worthy, but such as the satisfaction of christ maketh worthy, without which we could no thing satisfy/ but with which we may, sith his pleasure is that we so should, and not so take his death for so full satisfaction of all together, that we should therefore be careless and slothful to do any penance ourself for our own sin.  
Tyndale will say to this that he can be content, that we should do good deeds but not by way of penance for our sin/ and that we should sometime fast and otherwise afflict our flesh, to the intent to tame our flesh against the sin to come/ but nothing to punish it the more for any sin that is paste.  
Now is this teaching of Tyndale much like, as though he would advise us, be never the better because thou haste be nought, do never the better because thou haste done evil, run never the faster forth in virtue, because thou haste long sitten still in sin.  
But saint Poule against Tyndals' doctrine, ran forth the faster because he began later, and took the more pain for the faith, because he had been a persecutor of the faith. And though he never thought thus, if I had been sooner converted I would have done less good: yet had he this mind, that because he began so late he would do the more/ & because he had been bad, 
Roma. 6  he would be the better/ as himself counseleth other, as ye have exhybyted and given your membres to serve vncl●nes and iniquity, from iniquity to iniquity/ so now again exhibit and give your membres to serve righteousness, that ye may be sanctified.  Tyndale. 
And christ answered upon this rock I will byelde my congregation/ that is upon this faith. And against the rock of this faith, can no sin, no hell, no devil, no lies, none error prevail. ●or what so ever any man hath committed/ if he repent and come to this rock he is safe. And that this faith is the only way by the which the church goeth unto god, and unto the inheritance of all his richesse/ testify all the apostles and prophets, and all the scripture with signs and miracles, and all the blood of martyrs. And who so ever go to god and to forgiveness of sins or salvation by any other way then this/ the same is an heretic out of the right way, and not of Crystes church.  More. 
Lo these words of Tyndale seem very gay and glorious. But when ye shall well examine them/ as gay as the head glytereth with the pretext of Crystes own holy words, yet shall ye find the tail of his tale as poisoned as any serpent. For where he boasteth and saith, Against the rock of this faith can no sin, no hell, no devil, no lies, nor none error prevail/ for what so ever sin any man hath committed, if he repent and come to this rock he is safe: ye may not forget that he meaneth all way, that he which repenteth and cometh to the rock of this faith is safe for all his sins, without confession or any endeavour thorough good works toward satisfaction/ and so his hole tale is a false heresy.  
ye shall also consider that his tale hangeth evil together/ and the words by which he proveth that against the rock of this faith, there can no sin, nor no devil, nor none error, prevail, do not prove that point no thing at all. For though it were true that he saith, that what so ever sin a man have committed, if he repent & come to the rock of this faith he is safe: yet might the devil prevail against the rock of the faith/ sith it might be that the devil might bring a man having that faith in to a deadly sin that he should happily never repent. And therefore if Tyndale will boast that the devil can not in any person prevail against the rock of that faith/ but that the rock of that faith shall save any man that once getteth up thereon: he may not set If nor And thereunto/ but he must tell us then, that either who so stand upon that rock shall not sin at all, or else that he shall be sure to repent his sin, or finally that sin he never so fast he shall be safe enough whether he repent or not. For else may the devil prevail against the rock of that faith, by bringing a man that standeth on it in to mortal sin which he shall never repent.  
In like wise where he saith that none error can prevail against the rock of this faith, that saint Peter there confessed: I would fain wit whither he mean that who so ever once believe it, can never fall fro that belief, nor by any error believe the contrary/ or else that a man may fall fro it by error/ but than if he repent and return again thereto he shall be safe. If he mean in the first manner, he must then put away his If/ and not say if he repent his error and return again to the rock of that faith, than he shall be safe/ for as much as by that meaning he shall never fall in error, and therefore shall never need to repent. But then mu●●e he prove us by scripture that privilege given of god to every man that hath once gotten that faith/ which point he shall never prove while he liveth, but that a man that hath it, may by his own default, malice, or negligence, either at the instigation of the devil, or of such heretics as are wars then the devil, fall again therefro/ as many hath done ere this that once believed full right, till the spirit of pride, envy, and malice, blown into their hearts by the devil or the devils instruments, have brought them in to the wrong.  
Now if he mean in the second manner, that is to say that a man which hath that faith may fall therefro/ but for all that the gates of hell can not prevail against any man that once hath it, because he that falleth from it shall be safe if he repent his error and return again to it: if he mean thus he saith nothing to purpose, except he say which he shall never prove, that who so have it and fall from it, shall be sure that he shall repent and return again/ for else the gates of hell may prevail against him for lack of repenting and returning.  
And then yet further, if he say which he shall never prove that who so ever once have that faith, if he fall from it shall be sure to repent and return agayne● and so shall be safe by repenting: he must then as I said before put away his If/ and not say if he repent, but he must say boldly that he surely shall repent and return, and so by repenting and faith be saved.  
And thus good readers ye see that this man fareth as one that walked barefoot upon a field full of thorns, that woteth not where to tread.  
I would be very loath to myssetake him, or willingly to let pass and dissimule any sense that he might mean in his own words, by which his saying might be saved and be borne. But in good faith, I see no ferther thing that he might possible mean in his words, the hell gates shall not prevail against the roche of that faith, but this that I have all ready showed you/ sith he meaneth it of every man, that hell gates shall not prevail against the rock of that faith in any man/ except he would mean that a man may fall from that faith, and never after repent nor turn again/ but yet the gates of hell can not prevail against the rock of that faith, because a man can not sin all the while he keepeth that faith. And if he mean so/ yet saith he then as false as any thing can be false. For saint Poule saith plainly, 
1. Cor. 13.  that he may keep faith and yet fall from charity. which thing if Tyndale gloze and say, that then his faith is deed, & a deed faith is no faith/ and that therefore while he keepeth faith he can not sin, because that when he sinneth he killeth his faith: I answer that though faith by sin wax deed, it waxeth not deed in the nature of faith or belief/ no more than the soul that dieth by deadly sin, waxeth deed in the nature of the soul, but is a quick soul still as he was before, though he be out of grace/ as the deed faith is out of the lively works of charity, 
1. Timoth. 5.  and is as saint Poule said of wanton widows, that the widow which liveth in delyces is deed even while she liveth.  
But now if he mean but so, that faith is so strong of itself for our salvation, that sin nor error can not prevail against it, because faith will alway prevail against them till some of them enter in and kill it: this were a goodly boast of him to say, that the church be non● but elects, and all that be elects have the right belief which saint Peter confessed/ and they may be bold and sure that they which have that faith be gods elects, and in his favour, and ever shallbe by reason of that faith. For christ said that upon the rock, that is to wit upon that faith he would byelde his church, & that against the rock of this faith the gates of hell shall not prevail, that is to say against this faith can no sin, no hell, no devil, no lies, no error prevail/ for there shall no sin nor no error prevail against this faith but if it kill this faith. Tyndale to put a man in surety of heaven by the strength of faith, in this fashion that none error shall prevail against faith, as long as the faith prevaileth against it, nor till the faith be the feebler and be overcomen and killed: doth much like as though he would say to you, be bold I warrant you & fear no death, for you have life in you/ & as long as your life lasteth you can never be deed/ and like wise as long as ye keep the true faith ye can never be false heretics/ nor as long as ye stand still in the state of salvation ye can never be dampened. Here were a goodly tale were it not? And sith that neither this may serve him nor any that I have touched before/ and utterly I can not divine what he might mean else, taking the way that he taketh, in swerving fro the known catholic church unto his unknown church of elects, whom he calleth all repentant sinners that believe the faith that saint Peter confessed: I can not perceive nor I trow no man else, but that his words will evil stand together.  
And yet when he hath thus wisely handled it/ then as though the matter were well and sufficiently proved, goth he forth with the boast and saith.  Tyndale. 
That this faith is the only way, by the which the church of christ goth unto god, and unto the inheritance of all richesse/ testify all the apostles, and prophets, and all the scripture, with signs and miracles, and all the blood of martyrs. And who so ever goth unto god and forgiveness of sins or salvation, by any other way then this/ the same is an heretic out of the right way and not of Crystes church.  More. 
Lo here be lusty high words either false or else of little effect. For if he mean that no man may go to salvation by any other thing, without this faith that ●aynte Peter professed/ then be they true. But then are they to no purpose spoken, nor have no place in this matter, in which he reproveth the known church, in that they go by confession, contrition, works of penance, & works of mercy, toward the remission of the debt of their pain and satisfaction. For himself can not say nay, but that we do all agree that with all that ever we can do, we can not get forth one inch to hevenward, without the faith that saint Peter confessed.  
Now if he mean not that way, but that we be plain heretics and out of Crystes church, if having that faith that saint Peter confessed, we go to heavenward with any other thing bysyde then testify all the apostles and prophets, and all the scripture and signs and miracles, & all the blood of martyrs: then Tyndale is a stark heretic in so saying. For all these will testify, that we must believe many things more than saint Peter died there confess/ or else we shall not only be discharged of believing the sacraments of penance, confirmation, extreme unccyon, order, and matrimony/ but baptism also and the sacrament of the altar to. For of none of all these did saint Peter make any mention in his confession there/ nor so much as of Crystes death neither, whereof as Tyndale saith he had at that time no knowledge. So that in Tyndales affirming that the only faith there by Peter confessed, is sufficient and the only way to heaven: we shall have Tyndale himself to testify that Tyndale himself saith untrue.  
yet would I fain in good faith find and bring it forth, if I could any thing imagine, that he might seem to mean right/ nor never will I wittingly for the preferment of my part, construe mine adversaries words wrong. And therefore, what if we might understand Tyndale thus, as though he meant that the faith there confessed by Peter is for every man sufficient/ because that who so believe that christ is the son of the living god, it can not be but that he shall believe also that he is true in all his words/ and therefore he that so believeth can not fail to believe therewith/ all that ever christ shall teach him.  
All be it that this will not very fully serve him, and also himself speaketh no thing of it: yet is this as help me god the best gloze that I can devise for him. But now doth himself cast away this defence/ when he saith in the second chapter following, that there is none error noisome, but if it be against the promises/ so that in all other things he granteth and affirmeth plainly by express words that a man may err without any apparel, even though that the troth contrary to his error be written in holy scripture, w●●che is a marvelous word in mine ere. For by this ye may see, that he agreeth that a man may believe that christ is god's son, & yet believe the contrary of some things that christ shall tell him, though he tell it him in scripture. And therefore he will ye see well none of my gloze, because he will not stand in my danger for it.  
And in deed, all be it himself shall for himself never find a better/ yet mine will not sufficiently serve him neither. For a man might believe that christ were god's son, and thereby believe also all that christ would teach him. But yet might it be that he would believe no more, than those things only that christ would teach him personally present with him by his own mouth. For though he believed that christ were god's son, and would believe therefore all that he would tell him: yet might he for all that mistrust and not believe all other men, that would either in word or writing tell him a tale as told to them by Crystes own mouth. ye & this might he do, all though they proved it with miracles/ if he were of Tyndals' stomach, that can as the jews could, 
 ascribe gods miracles to Beelzebub, and call gods high marvelous works illusions and wonders of the devil/ as he calleth all the miracles wrought by god in his church sins the apostles days.  
This might one do that believed christ to be god's son, and to have redeemed us also by his blood. And this doth in deed both Tyndale & Marten his master, which believe of Crystes words no more than is written/ nor of the written words no more than they list/ and the remanant but as they list, sith they draw them to what sense they list, against all the old holy doctors, and all the church of christ. And thus it appeareth that neither my gloze nor any gloze else, can save Tyndals' tale from plain pestilent heresy/ both in that he saith there needeth no more to be believed, and also in that he saith that the belief alone is sufficient for salvation/ and that it is heresy to say that bysyde the belief, any man unto salvation should need any thing else. For though he put in for shame repentance thereunto, with Iffes as ye see: yet shall ye perceive as well in his chapters following, as in this same chapter after, that he putteth faith alone for sufficient, and repentance as a shadow that never can but follow it. And yet all his things ever so darkly, that he would fain leave himself some starting hole.  
But surely it is hard for him to start out fro these plain words of his own: who so ever go to god by any other way, than this faith that saint Peter confessed/ the same is an heretic out of the right way, and not of Crystes church. For this is no more to say, but who so ever bysyde the bare belief, with as bare repenting, add confession, or for sin punish him self by penance, or doth the better after because he hath done evil before, and hopeth that god shall either reward him the more, or have the more mercy on him, or in purgatory punish him the less: he is a stark heretic. And of troth so he is in deed if this false tale be true/ and all true men, and all holy saints, and all holy scripture false.  
But now goeth he forth, not in the proof but in the praise, and saith.  Tyndale. 
For this knowledge maketh me a man of the church.  More. 
which knowledge? the knowledge that a man needeth no more articles in his faith now, then saint Peter confesseth then? and that he may not beside repentance and belief, use any other way to heaven/ that is to wit he may not therewithal, use as a way to heaven or to remission, any sacramental shrift, or penytencyall works, or deeds of charity toward satisfaction? The knowledge of this faith maketh Tyndale a man of the church as he saith. But of which church trow ye? truly not of the church of christ, which bysyde that faith hath instituted the faith in his blessed sacraments & divers other articles beside/ & which hath plainly declared that all be it the knowledge of him & his pleasure by faith, be such a way toward heaven, that without it we can not come thither: yet if we join not to the knowledge good deeds or purpose of good works neither can that knowledge nor repentance neither serve us for a sufficient way to heaven. And therefore Tyndale is not by this knowledge made a man of Crystes true church/ but sith he is content with the bare knowledge and setteth all good works at so short, he is made thereby a man of the false church of the devil, that is a liar himself and father of all such liars.  Tyndale. 
The church is Crystes body Collos●. 1. And every person of the church is a member of christ. Ephe. 5. Now it is no member of christ, that hath not Crystes spirit in it/ as it is no part of me nor member of my body, wherein my soul is not present and quickeneth it. And then if a man be none of Crystes, he is not of the church.  More. 
Here Tyndale runneth in juggling, by equyvocation of this word church. For where as himself hath before this time, confessed in writing in this same book to which I answer now, that the church in many places of holy scripture is the hole multitude that profess the faith of christ, whither they be good or bad: here he fareth as though there were no man of the church, but only good folk alone in whom is the spirit of christ/ with an ensample put of the body, having some deed part hanging thereon, wherein were not the soul to quicken it and give it life, which therefore he saith is no part of the body. But he forgetteth that sometime there is some member astonied and lacketh both life and feeling/ which yet by the reason that it is not clean cut of and cast away, receiveth after life and feeling again/ as many a deadly sinner doth in the body of Crystes church take life again, that hath in sin lain full long deed.  
But now is he yet of this mind, that the faith which himself hath describe, is the thing that it once gotten and had of any man/ keepeth in the spirit of god so fast in his heart, that he is surely a quick member of the church that is Crystes body/ and that he can not lose that faith nor that spirit at any time after that he hath once gotten it/ so that he have it as he saith in another chapter after, feelingly and not only hystorycally.  
And who so ever have not the faith that he describeth him, he reckoneth for an heretic/ and only his faith for the true, and the believers thereof for the true church.  
Now his faith have ye heard often enough, that only faith sufficeth or at the lest wise with repenting/ & that shrift or penance toward heaven, or remission of sins is heresy/ and that to worship the blessed sacrament of the altar is dishonour to god/ and that there is no purgatory/ and that freres may well & lawfully wed nuns/ and a great rabble of such devilish heresies more, of such manner suit and sort, that as our saviour said unto saint Peter at the confession of his faith, 
Matth. 16.  Thou art blessed Simon the son of jonas, For flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto thee, but my father that is in heaven: so will he say to Tyndale, for confessing of this false faith of his: Thou art accursed Tyndale the son of the devil/ for neither flesh nor blood hath taught the these heresies/ but thine own father the devil that is in hell. And thus well hath he quit him in this chapter.  
Here endeth the confutation of this chapter of Tyndale, whither the church can err.   

Here followeth the next chapter of Tyndale, in which he saith that a true member of Crystes church sinneth not, and that he is yet a sinner.  Tyndale. 
How a true member of Crys●es church sinneth not, and how he is yet a sinner.  More. 
Now come we to the special point wherein Tindale giveth us a glorious demonstration of his excellent high wit and learning, far surmounting the capacity of poor popish men to perceive, how it might be possible that any man sinneth not and yet for all that sinneth all way still. But to the intent that Tyndale shall have no cause to say that I deface his gay goodly tale, by mangling of his matter and rehearsing him by patchies and pieces: ye shall first concerning this point here all his hole chapter together, without any word of his either omitted or changed/ and after shall we consider & examine the parts. These are therefore his words.  Tyndale. 
furthermore, he that hath this faith can not sin/ and therefore he can not be deceived with damnable errors. For by this faith we be (as I say●e) borne of god. Now he that is borne of god can not sin, for his seed dwells in him/ and he can not therefore sin by cause he is borne of god. I. Iohn. ●. which seed is the holy ghost that keepeth a man's heart from consenting unto sin. And therefore it is a falls conclusion that master More holds, how that a man may have a right faith joined with all kynd●s of abomyna●yon and sin. And yet ●uery member of Crystes congregation is a sinner and sinneth daily, some more and some less. For it is written. 1. Iohn. 1. if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. And again if we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar and ●●s word is not in us. And Paul Roma. 7. saith that good which I w●●●e that do I not/ but that evil which I would not that do I. So it is not I t●●t do it (saith he) but sin that dwelleth in me. Thus are we sinners and no sinners. No sinners if thou look unto the profession of our hearts tow●●●e the law of god, on our repentance and sorrow that we have, both because we have sinned and also because we be yet full of sin still, and unto the promises of mercy in our saviour christ and unto faith. Sinners are we if t●●u look unto the frailty of our flesh, which is as the weakness of one t●●t is newly recovered out of a great disease/ by the reason whereof our de●es are imperfect, and by the reason whereof also, when occasions be great we fall into hor●yble deeds/ and the fruit of the sin which remaineth in our members breaketh out. notwithstanding yet the spirit leaveth us not, but rebuketh us and bringeth us home again unto our possession/ so that we never cast of the yoke of god from our necks, neither ye●●e up our 〈◊〉 unto sin for to serve it, but fight afresh and begin a new batayle.  More. 
Lo now ye have herd his hole holy sermon together, by which he teacheth us that a true member of Crystes church doth both ever sin and never sin. But as for the tone part, that the true membres of christ do sin/ we shall not much trouble him with the proof (All be it in that he saith that every true member sinneth and ever sinneth, as he saith in more places then one: if he take sin for actual sin as he must here take it, or else he speaketh little to the purpose/ men might peradventure lay a block or twain in his way, that would break his shins ere he leapt over it) But letting that part pass/ let us see how he proveth the t'other, that a true member of Cristes' church sinneth not. Lo thus he proveth it.  Tyndale. 
furthermore he that hath this faith can not sin, and therefore can not be deceived with damnable errors.  More. 
Here he telleth us that no member of the elect church of his faith can be deceived with any damnable error/ and proveth it by that none of them can sin. And in deed it followeth, he can not sin, ergo he can not be damnably deceived, sith every damnable error is sin. But now let us see how he proveth his antecedent, that no man having that faith can sin. He proveth it thus.  Tyndale. 
For by this faith we be borne of god. Now he that is borne of god can not sin, for his seed dwelleth in him/ and he can not therefore sin, because he is borne of god, the .3. chapter of the first epistle of Iohn. which seed is the holy ghost that kepys a man's heart from consenting to sin. And therefore it is a false conclusion that M. More holdeth, that a man may have a right faith joined with all kinds of abomination and sin.  More. 
Consider now good reader, that Tyndale telleth us here three things, to prove thereby that who so get once the faith that saint Peter confessed can never sin after.  
The first is, that by that faith we be borne of god. The second is, that who so is borne of god, hath the seed of god in him.  
The third is, that who so have the seed of god in him, can not sin.  
Upon these three he concludeth, that who so get once that faith can never sin after.  
Let us now consider the first, where he saith that by faith we be borne of god. And therein dare we be bold to tell him, that though it be true that by faith we be borne of god as he now saith: yet is it false that by only faith we be borne of god/ as he falsely meaneth, and in many places as falsely for troth affirmeth, where he would make us ween that because we be borne of god and become his children by faith, we were therefore borne of god by only faith. As wisely as if he would say, that because he was bygotten by his father/ he was therefore bygotten of his father only without any mother.  
And this his folly himself so well perceiveth, that in many places he laboureth to cover it with sophistication, in using this word faith for faith and hope together, ye and sometime for charity therewith also/ and then would make us ween with such wise juggling, that faith alone were faith, hope, and cherite all three together, because that else the faith were but deed. And therein useth himself as wisely, as if he would say that the body alone eateth, drinketh, walketh, believeth, loveth, and all together. And when his folly were reproved/ would then say that he called the body alone the body with the soul therein, because the body without the soul were but a deed body that could no thing do.  
And thus ye see that ye shall not need to be deceived by his first point, that we be borne of god by faith.  
His second point is, that every man being borne of god hath the seed of god dwelling in him. I will not here contend with him, whither the seed of god that dwelleth in the children of god, be the holy ghost, or the faith, or the grace of god/ nor in what wise god and his holy spirit dwellen in good folk. But letting such disputations pass/ this will I say, that if the seed of faith being only faith abide in him, it is not a thing that shall so surely keep him from sin, but that he may sin deadly, and the seed of such faith stand still with his sin/ and the man for all the seed of such faith dwelling in him, may be by sin the child of the devil, and so may die and go to the deuyll●  
But yet is the seed of faith alone, that is to say the belief alone, a very great occasion of returning to god at his calling again by the offer of his grace, and thereby to get again both wholesome hope and charity. But not so great an occasion thereof, but that the man may keep still his faith and his belief alone, and without hope or charity either, by malice or negligence first fall to sin, and after continue still in sin, and refuse the grace of god if he will/ as well as the devil did in the beginning, and so doth ever still, and will do still in hell as long as god dwelleth in heaven.  
Now if the seed of god in the christian man, be meant his grace by which men come to faith, hope, and charity and do good works withal, not without the consent and applying of their own free wills thereto/ such folk as have use of reason working with god for their poor part toward their own salvation, with the instrument that god of his only goodness hath made and given them thereunto/ if he mean that this seed of god's grace dwelleth still in man, to keep him from falling to sin: I say that it is very true, as long as man will cleave thereunto & let his own will work therewith. But when so ever he will withdraw his own will therefro, to follow the world, the flesh, or the devil: then like as his will departeth from grace, so doth ordinarily the seed of grace depart out of him.  
Now if he mean by the seed of god, that the spirit of god dwelleth in the christian man by any other special manner of dwelling, above such dwelling as he dwelleth in other men by his power and presence of his godhead, then only by his favour & grace/ which other special manner if Tyndale mean any such, I can not conceive, sith I make myself sure that he meaneth no such dwelling in unity of person, as the second person of the godhead dwelleth with the manhood of christ: yet if he devise and mean any other manner of dwelling, by which the spirit of god dwelleth with the faithful man, I say that the spirit dwelleth in him and helpeth him to continue such as long as the man will by the applying of his own will continue with the spirit. But I say that the man may by the frowardness of his free will, at the motion of the flesh, or instigation of the devil, or entycement of the world, his faith remaining/ fall from charity, and put the spirit from him. 
Mat●he●. 8.  As did the people of Gerasens, which saying Crystes miracle wrought upon the mad man, out of whom he did cast the devil, because he drove the devil into their hogs and thereby drove their hogs into the se/ though well they perceive what a mighty lord he was and of what goodness to, in that they saw him deliver the man from the legion of devils, and therefore loved him somewhat of likelihood, and would have been glad to have had him dwell still with them: yet fearing that by the casting out of more devils they might afterward happily lose more of their hogs, they prayed him courteysely to get him quickly thence.  
yet god, when man hath put him out of his dwelling/ doth of his great goodness not always utterly leave him for his unkindness/ but though if the man die ere god come in again, god shall of justice for his unkindness hoveth still about the door of his heart, always knocking upon him to be by the free will of man let in with his grace into the house of man's heart again/ according to the words of our saviour in the Apocalypse, where he saith, I stand at the door knocking. 
Ap●calip. ●.  How be it a man may be so froward & obstinate in sin, & when he hath expelled god out of his heart, may drive him with sin upon sin and dispyghtfull circumstances so far of fro the door, as some of these heretics do (which in despite of virtuous vows of chastity, run out & wed nuns & live in lechery/ and in despite of the lenten fast, eat flesh upon good friday/ and in dyspyght of the blessed sacraments of the altar, cast the precious body of christ out of the pyx) that god shall justly for the hougenes of their abomination withdraw him self so far, that he shall peradventure never approach near unto them again, nor never after offer them his grace. And then must they needs never cease falling till they come down to the devil. Thus finally concerning his second point/ faith alone may dwell in a man, and deadly sin together. But lively faith, that is to wit faith not alone, but coupled with hope & charity & will of good works, can not dwell with deadly sin/ neither with manslaughter, adultery, nor any such like/ but as the tone cometh in, the t'other goth out, whither the sin be committed of malice, weakness, or frailty/ whereof Tyndale very stiffly teacheth us untruly that contrary. And yet I say not that all sins be of one weight, concerning the difficulty of returnyg to repentance, or the degrees of pain in hell, after the final impenytence or punishment in purgatory for lack of penance here/ but for that if they die before they return by grace and good will unto penance, they be all perpetually dampened in hell the tone as well as the t'other, though the tone not so much as the t'other, contrary to Tyndals' aforesaid false conclusion/ whose proof in that point specially dependeth upon his third article whereof the words be true & his understanding false. For his third point ye wot well is this, that who so ever have the seed of god dwelling in him can not sin.  
This point ye remember he proveth, by the words of saint Iohn in the third chapter of his first pistle. which pistle is undoubtedly one of the most hard and dark places of all the new testament/ and whereof sundry great heresies have risen, & sundry more there may, thorough such malicious minds as read the scripture, to none other intent but to wrest every word unto the worse part/ and of the plainness and simplicity that the apostles used in the manner of their words, take occasion to turn their earnest godly sentence, into frivolous cavillations and sophysines/ as not only diverse heretics have done of old, but also Tyndale hath now of new, both renewed their old & added some of his own, more pestilent & more foolish also then all the old heretics durst for very shame have spoken of. And where as all the old holy doctors used always to make open & expone the hard & dark places of scripture, by such other as were plain clear & evident: these heretics alway for the proof of their heresies, seek out the hardest places that can be founden in scripture. And all the plain open words in which can be no doubt nor question, they come and expone by those places that be dark obscure, & hard to understand/ much like a blind guide, that would when men were walking in a dark night, put out the candle and show them the way by the lantern.  
This way useth Tyndale universally, as well in every other thing that he taketh in hand to prove, as in this point specially/ that he which hath once the faith can never sin, because he hath the seed of god dwelling in him. For where as it is evident & plain by clear and open texts of scripture, full & plenteous in every part thereof, that there is no man here (except some special revelation thereof) so sure of his own final salvation, nor of his own present estate neither, but that he hath good cause to fere & temper his hope of God's mercy with the dread of his justice, lest his over bold hope may hap to stretch in to presumption & occasion of sleight regarding sin: Tyndale would expone them all against them all, by one dark text or twain taken in this pistle of saint Iohn/ by which he would make us believe that saint Iohn teacheth divers of the most pestilent heresies & most repugnant unto god, and that in his justice and his mercy both, with the most occasion given unto the world unto the two most heinous sins and most contraryouse in themself, that is to wit presumption & despair, that ever any heretic devised.  
For he gathereth and affirmeth upon saint Iohnns pistle, in his false exposition, and also in his foresaid beginning of this chapter, that saint Iohn teacheth them all these false heresies following.  
first that who so ever have once the true faith, can never after sin of malice or purpose/ but that all the synnies that he can after fall unto, shallbe but of wek●nes and frailty, be they murder, adultery, perjury, sacrilege, incest or treason, or any other abominable deed be it never so detestable sin.  
secondly that of all such sins he that hath once at any time gotten the faith, shall have ever after the grace to repent.  
And thirdly that at the bare repenting without shrift or penance, he shall have forthwith forgiveness of all sin and pain/ so that any satisfaction shall not only no thing need, but is also as he saith a damnable thing to do it, for hope or desire toward any remission either of sin or pain, and a damnable error to believe that god hath ordained any punishment or pain either in purgatory after this world, or by any affliction in this world, for any sin that any man once having the faith committeth & repenteth him of, were it never so abominable.  
For in his exposition of the first pistle of saint Iohn, he is come so much ferther than ever he came before (as far as I remember) that there like as I have showed you before in the preface, he denieth not only purgatory but also all punishment: here he teacheth also that who so get once the true faith, which he calleth the feeling faith, hath a sure undoubted knowledge that he is in the state of grace, and an elect that can never be dampened.  
Now of these abominable heresies what bold occasion of sin men may catch, and how they repungne against the justice of god. I refer it unto the wisdom of every good christian reder. Then teacheth he on the other side, that who so ever after his baptism had, & the story faith, that is saith he the faith with which we believe the articles of the faith as men believe a story or a chronicle, do any deadly sin of purpose/ that is to wit as he saith, not of weakness or freyltye but of malice or willingly with a consenting to the sin: y● man shall never after be forgiven in this world nor in none other. For every such sin saith he is the sin against the holy ghost/ which shall saith he never be forgiven, notwithstanding any repentance and penance taken and done therefore.  
And to the proof of this pestilent heresy, he draweth the covert and obscure words of our saviour christ in the gospel of saint Matthew the .12. chapter/ and also the dark and hard words of saint Poule. 
Hebr●. 6.  which places of themself all old holy doctors confess for dyffuse and almost unexplyclable/ saving that they all expone them contrary to Tyndals' heresy, by the articles of the known faith of Crystes catholic church, and by many plain open texts of holy scripture. Of which two things Tyndale the tone dyssymuleth, and the t'other despiseth/ and believeth the old heretic Novaciane the fyrsse author of that abominable heresy, better than saint Cypryane, saint Hyerom, saint austin, saint Ambrose, saint Gregory, and all the old holy saints that have written against it/ and better than the hole catholic church of christ of this xu hundred year, that ever hath taught the contrary, and ever sith the first invention of that heresy have continually detested and condemned it, as one of the most execrable heresies that ever the devil devised.  
For as Tyndals other heresy fighteth against god's justice/ so doth this directly fight against his mercy/ and putteth almost all christian people in utter despair of heaven, if men were so mad to believe one heretic or twain, better then all the old holy saints, and all the hole church of christ.  
This heresy as I began to tell you, Tyndale among his other afore remembered, laboureth to stablish/ not only by the dark and hard places of scripture afore remembered, but also by certain words in this first pistle of saint Iohn/ where is no more colour to speak thereof then of the man in the moan, as every man may soon perceive that readeth him.  
But now for our present purpose, to touch his heresies of this chapter of his, of singing without sin/ I shall touch you the place in that pistle of saint Iohn, whereby Tyndale would prove you that who so get once the faith which he calleth the true faith and the feeling faith, can never sin deadly after. By which ye shall plainly see how plainly he mysseconstrewth the scripture, to the mischief of men's souls. The words of saint Iohn be these Every man that is borne of god doth not sin, for the seed of him abideth in him/ and he can not sin, because he is borne of god.  
In the understanding of these words vary Tyndale and we. And whither he or we miss understand it, that let us now examine. first we shall I suppose agree together both that to be borne of god is in the scripture no thing else, but to be the child of god/ and to be bo●ne of the devil, is to be the devils child.  
we shall I think also agree together in this that to be borne of god or to be the children of god, is not mente to be his natural children as our saviour christ is by reason of his godhead/ but by faith, hope, and cheryte● and the sacraments, and the following of christ in good works, and keeping of god's commandments, to be members of his mystical body of his elect church.  
But herein peradventure shall Tindale and we begin to vary, not only for that I say by the sacraments and good works, of which Tyndale will not here/ but also for the elect church that is Crystes mystical body, whereof gods children be membres here in earth. For all be it that he is so wavering in his words that he woteth not where to hold him, and therefore speaketh so darkly that he would be loath to be understanden: yet he will call as it seemeth no man a member of Crystes elect church, but him that is elected finally to bliss and salvation. And I call h●re the elect church in this world, neither all that are chosen in to christendom and the profession of the catholic faith, nor only those that shall be finally saved/ but all such as for the present time so stand in the state of grace, that if they die before they fall therefro they shallbe saved. Of which folk many fall after from it, & so be dampened in deed/ which folk before their fall be the children of god say I. And when they be fallen into deadly sin, then cease they to be the children of god, and be become the children of the devil, till they be borne of god again by grace thorough penance, and become the children of god again. And in which so ever of these two states a man finally dieth in/ in that he perpetually dwelleth, and is thereby for ever either the child of god in his church of the final elects in heaven, or else the child of the devil in the church of the final reprobaties in hell/ according to the word of holy write, if a tree fall south or north, 
Eccle●iastae. 11.  in what place so ever it fall there shall it remain.  
But here saith Tyndale, that who so ever have once the faith which he calleth after the feeling faith/ he hath the seed of god, the spirit of god in him. And because he hath the spirit of god in him/ therefore he saith by the authority of the aforesaid words of saint Iohn, that man can never sin deadly. So that by that reason, who so ever have once the faith, is one of the final elects.  
Now see you in what manner Tyndale taketh these words. But against his taking, stand all the old holy doctors of Crystes church, from the days of himself and his apostles hitherto. Of all whom, let Tyndale tell me the name of any one that ever did understand these words of saint Iohn in such wise as Tyndale doth/ that who so ever gate once the right faith of christ, and put therewith as great a feeling thereof with hope and cherite thereto, as ever holy Tyndale himself felt in his days/ coude never after fall into deadly sin, or not so deep into it, that he might after be perpetually dampened in hell. Let Tyndale I say tell me any one of the old holy saints, that in this exposition ever took his part/ and let him take all my teeth and my tongue to.  
Now if never any good man understood saint Iohn so before/ but all holy men clean the contrary/ by what reason looketh Tyndale now, that we should now begin to believe him alone, in the understanding of these words of saint Iohn, better than all good cunning men this xu hundredth year before him.  
Now is his exposition besides this, not only against the catholic faith of all christian people, and the plain determination of Crystes church/ but also against many plain open places of holy scripture bysyde/ which were in so plain and clear a matter almost a lost labour to rehearse. And yet lest an unlearned reder might hap to any thing to doubt, I shall rehearse you some.  
what say we by the words of the spirit revealed unto saint Iohn, against the bishop of the church of Ephesus/ whom where as god praised for many great virtues, in such wise that it appeared that he was at that time in grace and gods right special favour, yet said he unto him, I have for all this a few things agayst thee, because thou hast left of thy first charity. And therefore remember from whence thou art fallen, and amend and do the good works which thou were wont to do. For else will I come shortly to thee, and I will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent and do penance.  
Doth it not here plainly appear, that he which hath gotten so the faith, and that the living faith to, that he worketh so well therewith that the light of his faithful lively works shine bright before the face of god/ may yet by declining from that fervour of devout works, in to some slothful slaknesse though much of his virtue tarry, fall yet so low at last, that god shall reject him and cast his candlestick, whereof the light shall be worn out quite out of his place? If this might not be/ god would not tell him, it both might and except he mended should.  
Doth not saint Poule say, 
1. ●●r. 1●.  he that thinketh that he standeth/ let him beware he fall not.  
It appeareth there plain by the circumstances of the place, that he speaketh there to them whom he reckoned for good men and faithful. For to those that stand he giveth the counsel to beware they fall not. which by Tyndale if they once in faith feel themself stand they need not, for they can not fall deadly. But saint Poule there mente deadly falls, as both by his words before and after appeareth.  
He saith also to the romans in y● .10. chapter, 
Rom●. ●●  They that is the jews are broken of for their lack of belief. But thou standest by faith/ be not proud thereof but fere.  
There showeth saint Poule effectually by a long process, that like wise as he which lacketh faith may by grace come to it/ so he that hath it and standeth in it hath cause to fere, because he may by his own default fall from it.  
Saith he not also, 
1. Timo●●. 5.  The rote of all evils is covetise/ which while some folk coveted, they walked out of the way from the faith.  
He saith also, 
2. Timo●●. 2●  Hymeneus and Philetus are fallen from the truth/ saying that the resurrection is passed all redyn & they have perverted the faith of some persons.  
Here showeth saint Poule plain, that men may have the faith and lose it/ and that can they not I suppose with out deadly sin.  
Peradventure Tyndale will say, that he speaketh only of elects/ and that I can not prove these texts to be spoken of elects. Thereto say I that he calleth every man an elect, that is only borne again of god by faith, and that believeth to be saved by the mean of christ/ and of such speak these texts, and therefore they speak of his elects.  
Then will he peradventure say, that he meaneth of a feeling faith only. I know not what he meaneth by his feeling faith/ but I wot well these texts speak of good faith & lively faith, that worketh with love. If he find any other feeling let him tell us.  
And yet if there be any other feeling of faith, then believing, loving, and working/ the selfsame to, seemeth by saint Poule that it may be left of again and lost, as appeareth by the same words of his in the sixth chapter unto the Hebrewys/ of which words Tyndale taketh his chief hold of the other part of his heresies, 
Hebrae. 6.  that is to wit that who so sin once deadly after his baptism, shall never after be forgiven. saint Paul's words are these. It is impossible that they which have once been illumined, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have been made part takers of the holy ghost, & have tasted the good word of god and the powers of the world to come, and be after all this fallen down/ should be renewed again by penance, for as much as they as much as in them lieth, crucify again the son of god, and have him in derision.  
Lo sirs where as Tyndale speaketh of feeling faith/ saint Poule speaketh here of them that have felt the taste thereof. And where as Tyndale speaketh much of the word of god/ saint Poule here speaketh of them that have felt the taste of the good word of god. And where as Tyndale speaketh much of being borne again of the spirit/ saint Poule here in like wise speaketh of them that have received the spirit. And yet for all that they have been illumined, and have felt the taste of the celestial gift, and been part takers of the holy ghost, and have felt the sweet taste of the good word of god, & of the powers of the world to come: yet saith he contrary to Tyndals' teaching, that they may for all this fall down so far into deadly sin, that it is impossible for them to be renewed again by penance.  
what hath Tyndale here to say to saint Poule? Surely for the defence of this foolish heresy, no thing hath he to say at all, that any good colour hath.  
But when he shallbe fain to give over this/ then will he comfort himself with that that saint Poule here seemeth to ferther his other heresy, that every deadly sin after baptism should be irremyssyble.  
But out of that comfort shall I drive him shortly, For I am sure the places of holy scripture written all by one holy spirit, varieth not in sentence. And where as these words, as well appeareth by the old holy writers, be full of hardiness and difficulty: yet that the sentence can not be such as may serve Tyndals' heresy, that shall we, leaving all their expositions which are all clean against him, make him open and evident, by the plain & clear words of the holy prophet Ezechyell, whose words lo be these in the xviii chapter.  
If a sinner repent him of all the sins that he hath done, 
Ezec●●●●● 1●.  & keep all my commandments, & deal justly & righteously: he shall live, and shall not die. Of all the iniquities that he hath wrought I will none remember: in the righteousness which he hath done shall he live. Is it my will saith the lord god, that the wicked man should die, & not rather that he should be converted from his ways & live? But truly if the righteous man turn himself away from his righteousness, & work wickedness in any of all those abominations which the wicked man is wont to work shall he live? Of all the righteousness that he hath done, shall none be remembered. But for the offence which he hath committed, & in the sin that he hath done/ for those shall he die.  
Lo sirs here is more than I promised. For here be both his heresies destroyed at once. For god here by the mouth of this holy man, promiseth without any manner exception, that when so ever the wicked man will turn, he shallbe taken to grace. And in like wise when so ever the righteous man sin, his former righteousness shall not save him from damnation. And this sentence our lord hath set so sure, that he repeateth it again in the xxxiii chapter in this wise. 
 The righteousness of the righteous man shall not save him in what day so ever he sin. Also when so ever the wicked man turn from his wickedness/ it shall not hurt him. And the righteous man can not live thorough his righteousness, in what day so ever he sin.  
Here have ye good readers hard this sentence by the word of god in this one holy prophet, double confirmed & thereby Tyndals' double heresy double also condemned.  
And yet lest Tyndale might say, why should you not as well expone and gloze Ezechyel by saint Poule, as saint Poule by Ezechyel, namely sith saint Poule came after, and therefore of god's mind may tell us ferther: it appeareth I say that our lord will not that these words of Ezechiel be glossed by any other words, though they be spoken by god himself/ but that his other words if they seem contrary, shall be rather exponed by these. And thereof he giveth us open warning in his words following and saith.  

Ezechiel. 33.  ye and though I would say to a righteous man that he shall live, and he then trusting in his righteousness commit and do wickedness/ all his righteousness shall be forgotten/ and for the iniquity which he hath wrought, for that he shall die. But if I say to a sinner, Thou shalt die/ and he then repenteth him of his sin, and doth judgement and justice, and that the same wicked man restore the pledge that he hath of an other man, and also make restitution of stolen goods, and walk in the commandments of life, and do nothing that is unright: he shall live, and shall not die but be saved, and none of all the sins which he hath committed, shallbe laid to his charge. judgement and justice hath he done, and therefore shall he live and not die.  
Lo good christian readers, here see we very plain, that we were far unwise if we would follow the folly of Tyndale, either in bold presumptuose hope or foolish fearful despair/ either weening that after any feeling faith once had, any deed that we could after do, could be no deadly sin/ or that for any deed done after our baptism, we could be penance never be saved after. we may be very sure, that as saint Poule plainly reproveth the tone, and is hard to perceive what he meaneth in the t'other: so that he meaneth not as Tyndale telleth us, we may well know/ not only by all the old holy doctors and saints that expone saint Poule, in that he saith it is impossible to be renewed by penance, that it is impossible to be by penance renewed unto the state of baptism. And by that exposition they destroy yet a third heresy of Tyndale, concerning his full remission of sin and pain and all forthwith as soon as he repenteth/ but also be we well learned here by the prophet Ezechyell, that all though it may peradventure be, that a man may go forth in sin so far, that he shall never have grace of repentance after offered unto him, & for that cause ought every man stand in great fere to sin how great faith so ever he feel/ yet if we begin once to repent, we may be sure that god offereth grace & will perfit our penances with increase of his grace, and will pardon the death dew for our deadly sin, but if we fail on our part to go forward with his grace, and that we foolishly fall therefro.  
Now against all these evident places of scripture plainly contrary to Tyndals' exposition/ what thing hath Tyndale to defend his exposition withal? If he name any men/ he shall name you none but a few known condemned heretics, against all holy doctors & saints and the catholic faith of all christian people. If he pretend any places of scripture/ he shall allege a few dark hard and obscure, or no thing pertaining to the matter, against a great many manifest, plain and evident, & clearly proving his exposition false.  
Finally ye shall find that the hole purpose of saint Iohn in that pistle, no thing maketh in this world for Tyndals' intent, but rather clearly the contrary.  
For saint Iohn intended there, not to show them, that who so is once good can never after be bad, as Tindale saith he meant/ but utterly to give all the world warning, that be men at one time never so good, yet when so ever after they do nought they be nought, and by their evil doing lose their goodness. And like wise as before while they believe well and work well, they be all that while borne of god, & be gods children, and have his seed in them: so when so ever they fall from faith to heresies, or from good works to deadly sin, then lose they the seed of god and be borne of the devil & become his children.  
And that saint Iohn in this point meant none other then thus/ the hold process of his pistle one part compared with an other, doth more than plainly declare. For he showeth that the devil is the father of evil folk, and they his children by following him in their sinful works/ as our saviour said to the jews ye be of your father the devil, and his desires will ye do. 
Ioh●̄. ●.  And the son of god saith Saint Iohn came in to this world and here appeared, to dissolve and break the works of the devil. And every man that is borne of god, that is to say that is god's child doth not sin, because the seed of god abideth in him/ and he can not sin because he is borne of god and is god's child, as though he would say, for if he fall to sin, then ceaceth he to be borne of god and to be god's child, and beginneth to be borne of the devil and to be his child.  
And therefore it followeth forthwith in the text, By this be the children of god and the children of the devil open. That is to say, by this may ye see who be the children of god and who the children of the devil. For he that is not righteous is not the child of god, nor he that loveth not his brother. And after he saith, every man that hateth his brother is a manqueller/ and ye know that no manqueller hath everlasting life abiding in him.  
Lo good reder, where as he said before that the child of god can not sin, because he hath the seed of god abiding in him: here he saith for all that, who so ever hate his brother is an homicide, and therefore hath not everlasting life abiding in him. which is the thing that he before called the seed of god, whither he meant thereby lively faith, grace, or the spirit of god. Of which three the first two be the beginning and the entry in to everlasting life, which shall be perfected by glory/ and the third is himself everlasting life of his own omnipotent nature.  
And thus have he the seed of life never so strong and sure at one time while he is the child of god: yet when so ever he falleth after to the hatred of his brother, he loseth that life by the committing of deadly sin, and becometh the child of the devil.  
To this will Tyndale peradventure say, that I pass over and dissimule the weight of saint Iohnns words that he allegeth, and that I wink and will not perceive how plainly they prove his purpose. For though it be true that when so ever a man hateth his brother, he is an homicide and sinneth deadly, and hath not everlasting life nor the seed of god abiding in him: yet followeth it not will Tyndale say, that he that hath once the feeling faith, & thereby is borne of god, and thereby hath the seed of god in him, may sin deadly and lose the seed of god. For he can not lose it but by sin. And the seed of god once being in him/ he can not because of that seed be suffered to hate his brother of purpose, and so to do deadly sin and lose the seed of life/ but ever is he by the strength and virtue of that seed of everlasting life, preserved from all falling in to deadly sin. And that I prove (will Tyndale say) by the plain and open words of saint Iohn before alleged/ where he saith that he that is borne of god can not sin, because he hath the seed of god abiding in him. He saith not as long as he hath it/ but he saith he can not sin because he hath it. Sygnyfyeng plainly that he can never sin, because he hath the thing in him that will never suffer any deadly sin to enter. And the reason that is made against me upon other words of the same pistle, avoideth (will Tyndale say) mine exposition nothing at all. For like wise as it is made against a man once borne of god, to prove that he may be after borne of the devil: it may as well be made of any angel in heaven. For if any angel in heaven would fall from the love of god into malice/ he should be turned from an angel in to a devil. But like wise as that case can never fall, because the seed of god is in that angel/ which so keepeth him & ever shall that he can not have that evil will so to do: so doth the seed of god once entered with the feeling faith in to a soul, so preserve it & keep it by the mighty power of that seed, that that soul can not fall in to that malicious will that may make any deed of his to be deadly sin. And that this is so, I say yet again that the words of saint Iohn which I have before alleged, do very plainly prove/ in that he saith that who so is borne of god can not sin, because he is borne of god, and because he hath the s●ed of god abiding in him. And he saith after in another place of the same pistle, that he which is borne of god/ his generation (that is to wit his being borne of god by the seed of god, 
1. I●●●. 5  whereby he is begotten & borne of god) doth preserve & keep him.  
In this wise will Tyndale peradventure answer me. And surely I can myself devise no more effectual words that he might speak for his part/ for in good faith if I could I would. For never will I purposely leave his part any more faintly defended than mine own, as far as myself can see any thing that himself might say.  
But now to this answer. we shall tell him again that between man & angel is there almost as great difference in this matter, as there is between them in their substance and nature. For the blessed angels that stood still with god in the devils fall, were forthwith so surely confirmed in grace, that they can never fall in to sin after, nor do any thing whereof god will command them the contrary. And of this in them be we sure in faith, by the word of god taught unto his church/ and they sure in knowledge by his promise made unto them with his word, which he by a mean to us not imagynable continually speaketh unto them, in the contemplation and beholding of his almighty godhead. But as for man/ we find no such promise made unto him, that when he is ones good, he can never after wax nought. But we find in scripture the contrary, as I have by plain scripture proved all ready before  
we see also that the catholic faith of all christian people is to the contrary. For all christian people except a few heretics, both now believe and all this xu hundred year before ever have believed, that good men & children of god may fall in to deadly sin, and become children of the devil/ and yet arise by grace thorough penance, and be made the children of god again. 
Ezechiel. 18.33.  Many texts also of holy scripture plainly prove, 
Roma. 11.  that good folk may fall & perish. 
1. Cor. 1●. 16.  
Psalmo. 32.33.  And the scripture is full of good counsel/ advising all good men to stand fast always and ever live in fere of falling/ but if any special revelation be given to some certain man bysyde the comen ordinary course.  
we find also plain ensamples, both in scripture and at our own eyes, of many virtuous children of god, that have fallen from that estate, & becomen by sin the children of the devil.  
For letting pass over judas, that from the child of god and from an holy apostle turned in to the traitor of god & child of the devil of hell: we have seen over many in our own days, in whom we have had experience of the like. As of frere Luther, frere Huskyn, Otho the monk, Pomerane the pressed, & frere Lambert. For as for Swynglius, I never heard of any good virtue in him. But all these other were the good children of god once, at such time as grace and devotion brought them in to religion. And yet can now no good man doubt, but by the breach of their holy vows and promise made to god, and running out in apostasy, and living in lechery under pretence of matrimony/ & for their more courage & boldness in such bichery, to bear it to better out shameless with ungracious company, making a shameful sect thereof and an abominable heresy, they be now fallen from christ, and have expelled the seed of god out of their hearts by sin very devilish deadly. And yet dare I not despair of any of all these, nor of Tyndale himself neither. For all his own rule, whereby he teacheth that they which willingly sin, and of purpose maliciously impugn the known troth, as they and he do, shall never come to grace of amendment nor ought not to be prayed for: yet dare I neither I say despair of any of them nor of himself neither/ but hope yet and pray both, that god may amend them all, if none of them be deed in their sin and gone to the devil all ready. 
1. johan. 5  For than is there in them peccatum ad mort●m that saint Iohn speaketh of/ and vain were it then & sin also, any more to pray for them then for the devil. ●u●a●● inferno null● est redemptio/ and the wretches lie there now blaspheming god, and are his unchangeable enemies as is the devil.  
But these reasons and these examples I say, with the consent of all the old holy expositors of saint Iohnns pistle before/ make us to perceive surely, that saint Iohn did never mean by these words, after such manner as Tyndale expoundeth him now/ that because the seed of god is once in him, therefore there can never any deadly sin enter after. For saint Iohn himself in the same pyste counseleth every good man to stand still in his goodness, 
1. 〈◊〉. ●.  & beware that he fall not in to idolatry. which he might have boden all god's children care never for, if they were as Tyndale saith sure by their feeling faith, that they could never fall thereto, because the seed of god was once with in them.  
But as I said before, Tyndale in these words of saint Iohn taketh occasion of the simplicity used in the manner of speech in holy scripture, to make cavillations and seek out sophysmes upon every word. And where as saint Iohn saith, that the child of god can not sin/ meaning not precisely that he can not sin deadly by any manner mean, but that it is a great occasion to keep him from sin, & that he that doth deadly sin, is not god's child but the devils: Tyndale affirmeth him plainly to mean, that he which is once gods child can never sin deadly after. As though every man that would say, an honourable man's child and virtuously brought up, can not fall to shameful vicious living, for his good education shall bridle him, and dread of shaming himself and his friends must needs refrain him/ might not mean by these words that the young man should have a great occasion to continue good, but must needs mean that it were impossible for him to be other then good/ and that he never could after forget his bringing up, and shake of shame and fall to nought.  
Or if one would say, a man that taketh his wife for very love, can never fall to adultery, the love that he hath to her must needs keep him to her/ nor she can not for very shame beguile him, for the love that he beareth to her. Do not folk speak in such fashion? And yet though they mean that these things be great occasions to contain the parties in faithful matrimony, they mean not that it can never happen otherwise.  
In such manner of whyse meaned saint Iohn in those words, when he said he that is borne of god sinneth not, for he hath the seed of good in him/ and therefore he can not sin, because he is borne of god/ he meant I say, not that it is impossible for him to sin deadly, but that it is a great help and occasion to keep him from deadly sin.  
yet will not Tyndale let to stick still in his error, & say that saint Iohn plainly meant, that it is impossible for him to sin that hath the seed of god in him. For he saith that he which once hath the seed in him, can not sin after deadly by no manner means, because he hath the seed of god in him once.  
To this I say that in the sample that I before did put, neither the man nor the wife that come together for great love can fall to adultery, because the love which is in each of them toward the other, can not suffer it. And truth it is as long as it lasteth & endureth in them. But either of them both yet, may so far fall in love with some other, that the hot love which they had between themself, may coal and clean be quenched/ as is the fire with casting on water enough.  
Saint Iohn therefore writing those words, and understanding as in deed he doth, not after a sophistical fashion, that it were utterly impossible for him at any time after to sin deadly, that hath once the seed of god in him/ but well and reasonably meaning after the common manner of speaking, that it shallbe a great occasion for him to abide good still, & that as long as the man keepeth the seed of god (whither saint Iohn took it for lively faith, grace, or the spirit of god) & cleaveth there unto, so long he can not sin deadly: saint Iohn I say so saying & so meaning, spoke as became the right evangelist of christ. But Tindale telling saint Iohnns tale, & meaning thereby as he would make us ween that saint Iohn ment● that is to wit that who so ever is once borne of god, neither shall sin after deadly nor never can, because the seed of god is in him able to preserve the man & to keep out sin/ speaketh as wisely as if he would first make me this argument: He that turneth the spit sitteth by the fire/ but he that sitteth by the fire can not be a cold, because he hath a good fire by him: ergo he that turneth the spit can not be a cold. And when he had made us once this argument, would then ween he had plainly proved, that who so ever had once turned the spit, could never be a cold after in all his life. For surely after Tyndals' understanding of saint Iohnns words, the reason is much like. For likewise as while a man sitteth by the fire he can not be a cold, because the fire is by him that keepeth him warm: so while the seed of god is in the man he can not sin, because the seed of god being i● him doth keep & preserve him from sin. But like wise as the brooch turner that sitteth warm by the fire, may let the spit stand, & suffer the meet to burn, and walk himself out in the snow till his teeth chater in his head for cold, and never cathe heat again but fall stark deed on the ground: so he that is once gods child, & hath the seed of god in him, & therefore can not sin deadly as long as he keepeth it and cleaveth fast unto it, may by the folly & frowardness of his own fire will expel the seed of god, & reject his grace, & neclect his holy spirit, and fall to deadly sin, & continue therein, & die therein, & go to the devil therein to.  
And so as it is true to say, that he which hath a good fire by him can not be a cold, meaning thereby as long as he keepeth him by it: so is it true to say, that who so have the seed of god in him can not sin deadly, meaning thereby as long as he keepeth it. And thus meant saint Iohn.  
And as he that would say who so sitteth by the fire can never be a cold, meaning thereby that he could never go from the fire & so cathe, cold after, were a very stark fool: so he that would say that who so have the seed of god in him can not sin/ meaning thereby that he could never after lose the seed, by the folly or frowardness of his own will, & thereby sin deadly and be dampened to, were much more than mad. And sirs thus meaneth Tyndale/ and would make us all so wise, as to ween that saint Iohn meant so to/ whereof we see plain the contrary, not only by many other plain places of scripture, but also by many other places of saint Iohn in the self same pistle, with all the old holy saints that ever exponed that pistle of saint Iohn.  
And sith Tindale so stiffly sticketh in this point, that the seed of god once had in a man's heart, doth keep him for ever after from every deadly sin: let him tell us wherefore it keepeth him not for ever from every deadly sinful deed. For Tyndale saith himself, that though the seed shall keep him from all deadly sin/ yet it shall not keep him from adultery, nor manslaughter, nor such other horrible deeds, as poor unlearned people in some countries be wont to call deadly sins.  
And therefore good christian readers, I shall in this point end with the good wholesome counsel of saint Iohn, by which in the self same pistle against Tyndale, expressly he biddeth us all beware of all such heretics, as would make us ween that some were gods wanton cokneys in such a special wise, that what so ever they do no thing could displease him/ & some other so little set by and so far out of his favour, that no repentance, no penance, no faith, none hope, no love of god and their neighbour, could bring them in his favour. Against which fond and frantyke imagination / saint Iohn, though he say who so ever confess that jesus is the son of god dwelleth in him & he in him: yet he warneth us well and plainly, that he would no man should beguile us, and make us ween that with the confession and that belief alone he were a good man/ but saith, by this shall ye see who be children of god, and who children of the devil/ for he that is not righteous is not of god. And saith also, little children let no man beguile you/ he that doth righteousness is righteous, and he that doth sin is of the devil.  
Now may we clearly perceive, that these only words of saint Iohn utterly destroy Tyndals' heresy, grounded upon his false exposition of saint Iohnns other words. For when saint Iohn saith here himself, that the children of god and the children of the devil be manifest and open by their outward works: how can that stand with Tyndals' exposition and his heresy depending thereupon, by which he saith that the true membres of the elect church, may fall into the doing of horrible deeds, thorough the fruit of the sin remaining in their membres, & upon great occasions breaking out of their membres/ & yet for all those horrible deeds done by them they be the children of god still, & never become the children of the devil for all the doing of their horrible deeds, because they do them not of malice nor of purpose, but of frailty only & weakness.  
ye see good readers openly, that if Tyndale in this his heresy & false exposition of saint Iohn said true/ then should saint Iohn himself say untrue, where he saith that by the outward deeds, 
1. 〈◊〉.  the children of god and the children of the devil be made manifest & open. For they were not open by the deed, if notwithstanding the most horrible deeds that could be devised, yet their secret unknown faith & frailty did ever keep it secret hid & unknown, whither they were at the deed doing the children of god or the devil. And therefore where as Tyndale would make us ween, that himself & his holy fellows had by their feeling faith the spirit of god, in such a special manner entered in to their holy breasts, that none of their abominable deeds could be any deadly sin, because that the spirit saith he dwelleth still within them: saint Iohn saith in the very end of that third chapter, who so keepeth gods commandments, in him god dwelleth. And by that mark we know saith saint Iohn, that there is dwelling in us of the spirit that he hath given us. By which words he declareth clearly, that when these holy heretics break his commandments, by those horrible deeds which Tyndale himself confesseth that they do, & as all the world seeth frere Luther do, in wedding the nun, with the breach of their both vows against the commandment of god, which hath in holy scripture expressly commanded them to keep and fulfil their vows: saint Iohn I say declareth against Tyndals' doctrine clearly, that when we see such deeds in them, we may well perceive by them that there is at that time never a whit of gods good spirit in them.  
But now no man doubteth whither of the two, better understood saint Iohn/ whither Tyndale or saint Iohn himself. And therefore good christian readers, while ye see that these holy fathers and authors of these heresies, preaching so sayntly of their feeling faith, boast themself and their fellows for the sure children of god, that because of the spirit can never sin of purpose, and therefore never sin deadly, but be certain and sure of grace and salvation/ and yet ye see for all this, that being professed monks and freres, they fall to the fleshly feeling of nuns, of long purpose, and still persever therein, & finally divers die therein to: ye may believe here saint Iohn, that say they what they will, they be the devils children in deed, & all their holy doctrine is utterly no thing else but very frantyke blasphemy.  
And therefore finally, where as Tyndale knitteth up all his matter with a quyppe against me, and saith that because every man that once hath the right faith is born of god, and thereby hath the seed of god in him, which preserveth him so that he can never sin/ therefore it is saith he a false conclusion that M. More holdeth, how a man may have a right faith joined with all kinds of abomination and sin: ye see now that his own conclusion is so clearly proved false, that it letteth my conclusion no thing at all. And yet shall I further touch his quyppe where it shall have better place, after that we shall come to the chapters, in which he shall open and declare his uttermost what he calleth faith. But first will I consider a little his ferther progress in this chapter, in which he goth forth in this wise.  Tyndale. 
And yet every member of Crystes congregation is a sinner, and sinneth daily some more and some less. For it is written .1. Iohn. 1. if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the tr●eth is not in us. And again, if we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar and his word is not in us. And Paul Rom. 7. saith, That good which I would that do I not/ but that evil which I would not that do I. So it is not I. that do it (saith he) but sin that dwelleth in me.  More. 
Lo now ye here his worshipful riddle/ in the first part whereof he hath all ready showed us, that a true member of Crystes church sinneth not, because it hath the right faith/ and so is borne again of god and hath his spirit, and by cause of that can never sin. And now he showeth us in the other part of his riddle, that every true member of Crystes church, for all that he never sinneth yet he sinneth daily. And as he proved the first part by the words of saint Iohn falsely taken and understanden/ so doth he now prove us the second part by the words of say●t Poule, understanden & construed as falsely as ever he construed saint Iohn.  
For where as saint Poule in his pistle to the romans, speaketh of the pronytye and motions in the flesh remaining, as the relics of original sin, whereby we be tycled toward great actual deadly sins, and daily fall in to venial: Tyndale as appeareth by his words next after following, would we should ween that saint Poule meaneth, that every true member may daily fall into great horrible deeds, as perjury, manslaughter, and adultery, of weakness and frailty/ and that all those abominable deeds be no deadly sins yet but venial everichone, because it is not the man that doth it, but the sin that dwelleth in him. And while saint Poule saith the words of himself/ Tyndale so layeth them forth, that he would we should take it that saint Poule himself ● or at the least wise if not himself yet the sin that dwelled in him, committed in very deed many such horrible deeds, as the devil and the flesh did move and stir him to. And then was it well likely that he did enough. For well ye wot the devil would not fere to set his f●eshe on fire, and tempt him to lechery & manslaughter both/ while he feared not to tempt our saviour himself, to gluttony, covetise, & pride, devil worship and self slaughter to. 
Matt●●●. ●.  And saint Poule himself confesseth, that for a medicine preservative against pride, 
2. C●r. 12.  there was given him the angel of Satan, the prick of the flesh, to dabbe him in the neck and make him stoop and be●● him.  
And it appeareth plainly, that Tyndale taketh saint Poulys' words spoken of himself, to signify not one●y stirring and incitations toward deadly sinful deeds/ but also the very deeds committed and done as he calleth it of frailty, by the violence of those motions. For if he mean not so/ he laid those words nothing to his purpose, as it appeareth openly by those his own words following.  Tyndale. 
Thus are we sinners and no sinners. No sinners if thou look unto the profession of our hearts toward the law of god, on our repentance and sorrow th●t we have, both because we have sinned and also because we be yet full of sin still, and unto the promises of mercy in our saviour christ and unto our faith. Sinners are we, if thou look unto the ●rayltye of our flesh, which is as the weakness of one that is newly recovered out of a great disease/ by the reason whereof our deeds are imperfect, and by the reason whereof also when occasions be great, we fall into horrible deeds, and the ●rute of the sin which remaineth in our membres breaketh out. notwithstanding yet the spirit leaveth us not, but rebuketh us and bringeth us home again unto our profession/ so that we never cast of the yoke of god from our necks, neither yield up ourselves unto sin for to serve it, but fight a fresh and begin a new batayle.  More. 
Lo good christian readers, here have ye heard a full unchristen tale of an evil christian man. For now see ye clearly that by plain express words, Tyndale telleth us that a true member of Crystes church breaketh out in to hor●yble deeds when the occasions be great/ and yet he saith that for all that he sinneth not deadly. And this is the thing, for the proof whereof he bringeth forth his fore-rehearsed words of saint Poule/ by which he would make it seem, that saint Poule did himself so to.  
And yet keepeth he his accustomed guise as far as he can, in covering himself and colouring his matter from knowledge. And therefore he cometh in with sinning and yet not singing. And for the reading of that riddle, he saith that the true members of Crystes church are sinners and yet no sinners. And among them he setteth himself/ saying of himself and his fellows, we be no sinners if thou look upon the profession of our hearts toward the law of god, and on our repentance and sorrow that we have sinned and also because we be yet full of sin still, and on to the promises of mercy that is in our savyour christ and unto our faith. And sinners are we, if thou look to the frailty of our flesh by which we fall into horrible deeds, and the fruit of sin which remaineth in our membres breaketh out.  
Here would I that Tyndale should somewhat more clearly tell us what he meaneth in this matter/ whither he mean that a true member sinneth not deadly all the while that he resisteth, and doth not the sinful horrible deed, as for ensample manslaughter or adultery. And that then again he sinneth not, when that after the deed done he repenteth and is sorry for his evil deed, and is forgiven of god thorough the promises of mercy in our saviour christ, for the repentance & sorrow & for the faith. Let Tyndale I say tell us whither he mean thus/ or else that himself & his other fellows the true membres of Christ's church do not sin deadly in the very time neither, in which they consent to do those horrible sinful deeds, or rather in the time while they be in the doing/ for consent to the sin he saith they never do.  
By these words of his we be no sinners, if thou look to the profession of our hearts to the law of god, & unto our repentance & sorrow that we have sinned/ it may seem that he meaneth the first way, that is to wit that they sin not all the while that they resist the motion to the deed, & that they sin not also, when that after the deed they take repentance & sorrow therefore.  
Now if he mean to read his riddle on this fashion/ then he soileth his strange riddle as bloutely, as an old wife of Culnam did once among scholars of Oxenford, that sogerned with her for death. which while they were on a time for their sport purposing riddles among them, she bygan to put forth one of hers to/ & said arede my riddle, what is that I knew one that shot at an heart & killed an haddoke. And when we had every body much mused how that might be, & than prayed her to declare her riddle herself/ after long request she said at the last, that there was once a fisher that came a land in a place where he saw an heart and shot thereat, but he it it not/ & afterward he went again to the see and caught an haddoke and killed it. And surely Tyndale readeth his riddle much like, if he understand by his riddle they sin and y●t sin not. That they sin not while they resist the motions, nor when they repent the deed/ and that they sin while they be in doing. For that is no more to say but in one time they sin, and in another they sin not. And when 〈◊〉 sin than they sin/ and when they sin not than they sin not. were not here a wise riddle ween ye & well declared, if he mean it thus? And that he so meaneth I say it seemeth by his words afore rehearsed/ and also by these that he saith, the spirit calleth us home again. whereby it seemeth that he meaneth, we were once gone from home and afterward be brought again.  
How be it on the other side, he may peradventure mean by these words, we be no sinners if thou look to the profession of our hearts toward the law of god/ that even still in the very time in which they go about to bring their horrible deeds to pass, and in which they do them to/ yet profess they the law of god still with their heart. And so may he seem to mean as well by other words in the chapters following, as by these words in this present chapter, where he saith, we cast never of the yoke of god from our necks, neither yield ourselves unto sin for to serve it, but fight a fresh and begin a new battle. By these words it seemeth, and of troth so I trow he fully meaneth, as appeareth by sundry other chapters of this book/ & yet most especially by his exposition upon the first pistle of saint Iohn: that though they sin in that they have the motions of sin, the relics of original sin remaining in the flesh, yet because they be borne of god by the right faith, that is as Tyndale expoundeth it, by the byliefe of the faith confessed by saint Peter, that jesus is christ the son of god & our redeemer/ and because they have that belief, not only thorough the words of men preached unto them, which faith is as he saith hereafter but historical, faint, and soon gone/ but have it graven in their hearts by god (which he calleth hereafter the feeling faith) by which faith he saith that they feel themself to believe in god, & put their hole hope and trust of salvation in god, by the passion of christ without any respect of any good works/ & feel and be sure that god loveth them, & that they be in his favour, & be true chosen members of his elect church, and shall never be dampened/ and by this feeling faith be borne of god, & that therefore they have the spirit of god in them, by reason whereof they can never sin deadly/ for the spyryt (saith he) shall never suffer them to sin of purpose, but all the horrible deeds that they shall do, shallbe only of weakness and frayletye of the flesh upon great occasions, when the fruit of sin that remaineth in their members breaketh out: for this cause he saith that though the motion of the flesh toward horrible deeds be sin, and therefore they sin/ yet because of their feeling faith, they keep still in their hearts their profession toward the law of god. And when they have done the deeds & taken a fall/ yet cast they never of the yoke of god of their nekkes/ nor yield themself unto sin to serve it, but when the rage is ones passed, then rise up like lusty galyardes again, & fight a fresh, & cry a new field a new, & begin a new battle/ & then is (saith he) all forgiven them quite, & they clean assoiled of god both from sin & pain/ & no pain shall suffer any time after for the sin passed before, neither in purgatory nor in this world neither. And therefore neither in going about their horrible deeds, nor in the committing of them/ he saith they never sin deadly nor never can, be the deed never so abominable. And such as far less were deadly and damnable in another man, that were not so borne of god by such a feeling faith as they be, nor had received the seed of god in him as they have/ which seed once had can never suffer them to sin of purpose, and therefore never deadly after.  
All be it that as I have often told you, Tyndale partly for the uncertainty of himself in his opinions, after which he grysped and long felt about here and there in the dark, ere ever he well wist where he would rest and settle himself/ and partly because he perceived in his own conscience his heresies not only so naughty, but also so sottisshe that he was ashamed of them/ and therefore ever so laboured to set his words in such obscure & doubtful fashion, that he might have alway some refuge at some starting hole: yet of very troth in conclusion, when he saw the world wax in some parties of Almaigne so surely fixed and confirmed in all kind of heresies, that there could none error so folys●he nor so frantyke be devised, but a man might he bold to set it forth, & should not fail to find fond fellows ●now to follow it/ hoping then that he should little & little at length bring the people of this realm unto the same point, he hath finally so set fo●th the matter in this book of his answer unto my dialogue, & yet much more openly in his exposition upon the first pistle of saint Iohn, that any learned ma● which advisedly readeth those twain, shall never after doubt, but that his riddle of the true member of their elect church singing ever & yet synning never, he meaneth very plain & expressly in such manner as I have now last declared you. And therefore let us now consider how he may maintain his meaning, & what good fruit will follow thereupon, in the feeling of such holy members.  
sith Tyndale agreeth, that both Luther & himself, and all other the true membres of the elect church, may do great horrible deeds such as he denieth not to be in other men deadly and damnable: we must enserche with him and ask of him, what is the thing that maketh the same horrible deeds which should be deadly in another, to be not deadly in Luther or him, or any such other true member of their elect church.  
He will peradventure answer us & say, it is no deadly sin in them, because that god doth afterward upon their repentance & sorrow taken for their sin, forgive them the death & all manner of pain dew to the horrible deed by them before committed/ & that therefore it is not deadly to them, because by god's remission and pardon it is provided that they shall not die. This answer of Tyndale is very slender/ for it implieth the contrary of that it should prove. For it declareth that the deed is deadly, & that he sinneth deadly. For else god did not pardon him the death upon his repentance, if death were not dew to his deed.  
And I do not now lay to them the time before their consent unto the deed, nor the time of their repentance after their evil deed/ but the time in which their will consented and agreed to do it, & the time in which they did it in deed/ in this mean time say I they sin deadly in deed.  
Nay saith Tyndale, for afterward we repent, and by and by god forgiveth us the death, for his mercy in our saviour Chryst, and for our faith, and for his promises.  
This wise answer is much like, as though he would tell us that one which had rob a church were a thief & yet not a thief. A thief because he had stolen away the chalice, & yet not a thief because the king had given him a pardon.  
Tyndale will yet happily say, that the thief was not sure before that he should have his pardon after/ but Luther & he & such other true members of their elect church, be sure by god's promises, that upon their repentance they shall have their pardon.  
But then ask we him again, though he know by the promise that upon repentance he shall have pardon/ how knoweth he and what promise hath he, that when he hath committed horrible deeds, he shall have after the grace given him to take such repentance as the pardon shall follow.  
Hereto shall Tyndale say that himself & his fellows do feel by their feeling faith, that they be borne of god, and that they have his seed within them/ by which they be well assured that they shall never do any such deed, as they shall spiritually die for/ but is very sure and feeleth well by his feeling faith, that the spirit will call him home again after, be he never so far gone, and will cause him to repent, & so get him his pardon.  
Of this opinion be they very surely/ whereof ye see well followeth no little occasyan of bold setting forward unto sin. For if a prince would promise every man a pardon before hand, that would so surely trust upon his promise, as what so ever he should do he would not let to come & ask it/ no man doubteth I suppose what plenty this promise would make of all kind of unthrifts. But as for god, though he have made a true faithful promise of pardon, to all true repentauntes & penitents what mind or purpose so ever they had before (the truth of which promise Tyndale yet mistrusteth in them the sin willingly & of purpose, & plainly saith that they shall never have pardon) yet hath our lord of his goodness & wisdom left one bridle bound about men's heads to refrain them from boldness of sin, that is to wit that they can not after their sinful deeds repent again of themself without his special grace. which though he doth of his goodness commonly offer/ yet be they not put in surty before, that it shallbe so offered unto them. But that if they so boldly make themself sure thereof before, that the courage thereof give them occasion to sin/ it may be the cause that god shall clearly withdraw it from them, & never offer it them after. And this uncertainty of grace to follow is the bridle that refraineth our boldness/ where as Tyndale & his holy fellows the true members of Crystes church, feeling by their feeling faith that after their horrible deeds done, they shall undoubtedly take repentance & so get their pardon/ have this bridle of dread cast of their head, & therefore are ready like unbridled colts to run out at rovers in all horrible deeds whither so ever the occasions of their wild affections, & the sin as Tindale saith breaking out in their members, list to carry them. For when they be carried out upon occasions by the devil & the flesh/ then Tyndale calleth it but frailty & infirmity, & no will in no wise nor no malicious purpose. And therefore of this heresy, without which they can not defend their other, ye see what good fruit must follow. And yet suppose that tyndal's false heresy were true, & that they were as certain & sure of repentance, & thereby of remission & pardon, as they say they be/ this would not yet maintain his matter. For though that a traitor were so well acquainted with the condition of his king, that he verily knew that when he had all wrought that he could in his traitorous purpose against him, he should yet after obtain his pardon, and thereupon boldly so did, upon some occasion and hope of some high promotion, and afterward were not deceived but obtained his pardon in deed: yet had he been for all that a stark traitor in the mean while, and had deadly trespassed, though the death followed not, but the fault were fully forgiven. And so much the more traitorous wretch, in how much the prince were of his nature more benign and merciful. And thus ye see plainly that Tyndale to prove his riddle true, that though he sin he sinneth never dedeli/ must seek some better shift then this.  
Tyndale will say that his fellows & he do not sin deadly in the time of the doing of such horrible deeds, because as they say they do them not of purpose nor willingly, nor do not consent unto sin to serve it/ but all the while that they go there about, and all the while also in which they be in doing, they resist it in their wills, & have still in their hearts their profession to the love of the law, and be sorry that they shall break it/ & finally do break it against their will by great occasions given, which carry them forth to the doing of those horrible deeds, in a rage of the sin breaking out of their membres. which horrible deeds after the rage once passed, they repent all way and forthwith be clean forgiven.  
Is not here good reder a goodly defence and a godly? And undoubtedly this is their very defence in defending themself from deadly sin, as Tyndals own words as well in this chapter as in other following, do plain and clearly show.  
But now seeth every good christian man well enough, that they be wickedly occupied, 
Psalmo. 140.  in seeking as holy David saith, excuses for their sin. For there is no man doth any such deed against his will/ but all be it that he resist the motion of the devil and the flesh at the first, & cleaving to the contrary stirring of god and his good angel, repugneth and striveth against the sin and is peradventure loath to be brought thereto/ which doing is very god, and thereby good folk finally cast of and overcome all those temptations thorough the grace of god working with them: yet such as in conclusion fall to the doing of those horrible deeds which they be tempted to, though they be not fully so evil as other that resist the devil nothing at all, but rather run on apace toward hell themself, then tarry till the devil come to carry them/ yet do they undoubtedly thorough their own default fall from the grace willingly, that holp them while they resisted. And as it were a coward that had fought a while, would suddenly cast away both buckler and sword, & fall down at his enemies feet, and yield himself in to his enemies hands: so do these folk which commit those horrible deeds, after a while resisting, by which by gods help they should have had the victory if they would have persevered in the fight/ they change their mind by the fault of their own free will, thorough the delectation of the sinful deed, and so consent unto the same, and then seek themself the way to come thereto, and the devil helpeth them to find it/ and so break they willingly god's commandment, and fulfil the pleasure of the devil and the lust of the flesh. which wilful falling from god and his grace, unto the devil and the flesh/ what god man doubteth to be damnable deadly sin?  
And therefore when Tyndale telleth us that Luther and he and such other true membres of their church, when they commit any such horrible deeds, do not commit them willingly, because they do commit them upon great occasions, and be carried away spite of their teeth with the rage of the sin that breaketh out of their membres: saving my charity sir I beshrew their knavish membres, out of which their sin breaketh forth with such a rage. Let them cast on cold water with sorrow, & quench that rage.  
For without the default of their own free will, all the devils in hell can never cast upon them such an heat, that shallbe able to bring them into that violent invincible rage, to compel them unwillingly to do such horrible deeds. For god hath promised as in plain scripture appeareth, that he will never so suffer them. 
1. Corint●. 1●.  God is faithful saith saint Poule, which shall not suffer you to be tempted above that ye may bear/ but with the temptation shall also make you a way to get out, so that ye may well weld it. And when saint Poule himself, 
2. Corint●. 12.  lest the greatness of his high revelations might have set him up in an high pride, had thorough gods great merciful goodness the angel of Satan the prick of the flesh, given unto him to beat him, & that in such wise that he was fain thrice to cry to god to take it away: our lord again showed him that it was not good for him to lack it so soon, nor to have it so suddenly taken away from him/ but showed him that his grace was sufficient. whose strength in man's feebleness so worketh with the fire will of him that purposeth to continue good, that all the devils in hell shall never be able to put him in such a rage, that may carry him toward horrible deeds one here breadth forward against his will. And thus ye see that Tyndale as touching his rial riddle of sinning and sinning not, is now brought to that point that he can not read his own riddle himself/ except he will peradventure say that it is never deadly sin though it be done willingly, but if a man consent to the sin, and than will understand thereby, that he consenteth not to the sin that consenteth to the deed, but if he consent that the deed should be sin/ & so that he which agreeth to do adultery doth not sin, because he doth not consent that adultery should be sin, but rather would it were none. Except Tyndale mean some such far fet wise invention/ else can I not in good faith perceive how he can help Luther and himself and other holy heretyques the true membres of their elect church, from consenting to sin/ when they do as he confesseth horrible deeds upon great occasions thorough the rage of sin, buddyge and bringing forth the fruit that breedeth out of their ungracious membres.  
For if he lake for any help of these words, where he saith that they yield not themselves unto sin for to serve it/ as though other folk when they do sin do intend to serve sin/ but they for holiness of their feeling faith, in the doing of their sins do not intend to serve the sin, but to make the sin to serve them and do them pleasure at their own lust and liking: let him for answer look how saint austin mocketh in like case an old fylosopher/ which being asked why he was not ashamed to have an harlot as other ribalds had, answered for his defence that there was great difference between his deed & theirs. For as for them they had not the harlot but the harlot had them. But as for him he had the harlot & not the harlot him. And there was by saint Sym, a proper reason and a trim. A fair boast for a phylosofer to have an harlot at his will, that lay with every man bysyde at her will. Now Tyndale maketh here a like boast for to excuse him and his fellows, saying, we fall when the occasions be great into horrible deeds, and the fruit of the sin which remaineth in our membres breaketh out, but yet we never yield ourselves unto sin to serve it/ meaning of likelihood that the sin shall serve them, as the harlot did the foolish phylosofer. But our saviour himself wipeth a way clean all the worship of Tyndales word, when he saith plainly that who so ever do sin, is by the doing become the bond thrall of sin. And so by the very true tale of Chryst, Tyndales false tale is avoided. For when so ever he yieldeth himself to do horrible deeds, which he saith they fall in upon great occasions, when the fruit of the sin remaining in their mischievous membres breaketh out at large/ than forthwith for all their feeling faith, by their foul fleshly feeling in the doing their filthy devilish deed, they yield themselves to serve the sin, and by the sin to serve the devil/ & the devil to serve them again, first here for a little whyl● with a little filthy pleasure, and after in hell for ever with blowing the fire about them.  
For as touching Tyndales words following, where he saith they will rise and fight a fresh and begin a new battle: these words make nothing to the purpose/ for they were never able to rise again alone. And if god lift them up as many times he doth/ yet were they not sure that he so would for he doth not ever so to every man. And of which sort himself is, that can he never tell what so e●er he babble.  
And also if he did always so, & that they were also sure before that he would alway so do after/ yet can it not serve Tyndale in this point. For we speak of the deadly sin in the time of his fall, and of the servitude and thraldom that he lieth in, all the while that he lieth prostrate under the devils foot, and not that after that god hath gotten him up again/ and therefore those words will not help  
How be it of truth Tyndales words written a little before, if they were true as they be not, would make more for the proof of his purpose/ where he saith that though they fall into horrible deeds, upon great occasions when the ●rute of the sin remaining in their flesh breaketh out of their membres, yet they never cast of the yoke of god fro their necks.  
These words if they were true, would make in deed somewhat for their purpose. For if it so were that for all the doing of their horrible deeds, they did never cast of the yoke of god fro their necks: than might it seem that in the time of the doing they did not yet sin deadly, sith their necks were yet still bouden within the yoke of obedience to the love of god, & that they had not shaken that yoke of.  
But of truth those words are untrue. For when they do those horrible deeds, which god hath upon pain of eternal death precisely foreboden them/ & which no temptation can cause them so to do against their will, but that they might by gods help leave it undone if they would, sith god never useth to deny the help of his grace, till man leave of his hold by sloth or frowardness of his own fire will/ therefore I say when they do those horrible deeds through the fruit of their sin breaking out of their bestely membres, they do by the dysobeing of his precept, shake of the yoke of god for the while/ as an evil ta●ched horse shakes of sometime the bridle & runneth out at large. And than again if it happen that at god's calling on, they repent & do penance, & purpose to amend & be better, than is the yoke put on again/ as an unbridled horse sometime when he is followed standeth still & stayeth at his master his whistling, and suffereth his bridle to be put on again.  
Now if Tyndale say still, that because of his feeling faith, which when he hath once gotten he saith he can never lose after, and that therefore he can never after do deadly sin, not even while he is in the doing of such horrible deeds, as he consenteth that he may fall in thorough the fruit of the sin that breaketh out of his members: I would ask him yet once again, what is the thing that after the rage passed h● so sore should repent and sorrow. For as himself saith, that thorough such repentance he may have remission/ why should he be so sorry for the deed, to the intent to be by sorrowful repentance made partner of pardon and mercy and restored to life, if he committed in the doing no manner of deadly sin.  
If he say for sorrow that he hath offended god, which grieveth him for the love & reverence that he beareth him, and not for any fere of hell/ which fere is but servile and bond, and therefore not meetly for such holy folk as Luther is and himself: I answer him if that he say tr●w, that he consented not, but all was done again his will/ god was not angry with him nor offended by him, nor his sin no sin at all. For as saint austin saith, if it be done without the will it is not sin.  
Finally if he stick still in this point, that in the doing of those horrible deeds, their lively feeling faith, which can not as they say but work well, standeth still in them all the while that they be doing these horrible deeds that they fall in upon great occasions, thorough the fruit of the sin that breaketh out of their members/ and that they therefore do not those horrible sinful deeds themself, but the sin that remaineth in their membres/ and that they resist the deed all the while they be in doing, and do not consent nor agree there unto, nor do it not with their heart but only with their members: it willbe then a wondrous case in my mind to consider, what manner a meditation and what manner conflict have they in themself between their heart and their membres, when the fruit of the sin that remaineth in their flesh against the profession o● their heart to the law of god, breaketh out of their membres into such horrible deeds, as take their bodies that were the membres of god, 
1. Corint●. ●.  and make them as saint Poule saith the membres of a stinking harlot. first when the devil upon some sight of a wanton woman, putteth that suggestion in their hearts/ they make no cross of likelihood neither on their forehead nor on their breast nor any where about their body. Fo● such blessing and crossing Tyndale calleth wagging with fingers in the air, a●d dumb ceremonies and image service. But like holy spy●ytuall fathers borne again of god and the spirit, they resist manfully first, and a great while. But when they resort unto her and talk with her more and more, and all against their will ye wot well/ for the devil driveth them thither, and he must needs go whom the devil driveth: then all the way they go they say to god and themselves, ywys though I go thither with my feet, yet I will not agree to go thither with mine heart lo. Nor I would not come at her at all good lord, saving that upon the great occasion that I had when I saw her ones/ I then liked her so well that I am now carried thither even in a rage. But yet for all the rage I will not cast of thy yoke good lord, but I will carry thy yoke still about my neck to bed with her, & put it about her neck to, & yoke us both together. And yet after all this lo, when all the rage is paste that now haryeth me forth in an heat thorough the fruit of sin, which remaining in my flesh, breaketh out of my members/ then will I repent it good lord & be sorry therefore, and return again from her to thee, or else bring her yoked with me to. And then will I pray the of pardon. And then thou most needs good lord forthwith at the first word, give me full remission of sin & pain, & all by our holy father the pope's leave, so that I shall never be punished therefore, neither in hell, purgatory, nor in this world neither. And this good mind good lord will I keep still and never let it fall out of my heart/ so that all the while that I lie bassing with Bess, & I am doing the horrible deed with my body/ yet will I never agree thereto with my heart. Or if I mishap for weakness and frailty to consent unto the deed/ yet will I never consent to the sin of the deed/ for it shall never be sin by my consent. Or if I do consent to the sin/ yet will I not consent of purpose & of malice as the devil doth, but of weakness and frailty as other holy folk do. Nor at the ferthest I will consent no ferther to the sin, but that the sin shall serve me, & not I to serve the sin in no wise, I will be well aware of that. For I thank the good lord the seed of thy spirit that thorough my feeling faith is in me, can never suffer my heart to consent to be servant to any sin, how horrible synnies & how many so ever my membres do. And therefore even while I am in doing/ that thank be thine good lord I do never sin deadly, nor never shall, nor can/ nor never am by any sin out of thy favour nor never stand out of the state of grace for any sin that I do or can do, be they never so many or never so horrible/ and such as one of these peevish popish papists shall be dampened to the devil, if they do but the fifteenth part of some such one, and all for fault of such a feeling faith, and such good meditations as I have.  
Is not here a godly meditation true ye. Forsooth I suppose ye shall not find such another in all the meditations of saint barnard, as holy a man as he was. And I assure you Tyndale and his fellows, if their holy here syes be true/ must needs in the doing of every such horrible deed as Tyndale telleth us that they fall in, by the ragyouse occasions of the sin breaking out of their wredched membres/ they must I say needs have some such manner of meditation in their holy hearts, if they shall both do those horrible deeds, & yet in the time of the doing never consent unto the sin to serve it, but continually keep still in their minds the profession & purpose toward the law of god/ & in all the time of their horrible doing/ never once shake of the yoke of their bond toward god/ but both abide bound still unto god, and yet run lose at large after the devil. These twain both at once without some such meditation can never stand together.  
Finally for conclusion of this his worshipful chapter of ever sinning & never sinning, where as Tyndale as though he had clearly proved the thing whereof he proveth nothing, concludeth against me in this wise, And therefore it is afals conclusion that M. More holdeth, how that a man may have a right faith joined withal kyn●e of all abomination and sin: I conclude against Tindale that he concludeth clearly the same. And yet conclude I farther for all thee, that I concluded true & that he concludeth false. And thus because that in this chapiter● Tindale is as it seemeth by his ever sinning & never sinning, set upon reading of riddles for his recreation: I put him my riddle to, that he & I be agreed, & yet we be not agreed/ & that he saith as I say, and yet I say not as he saith. For where as I said & true I said, that a right faith may stand & abide with all abomination/ meaning thereby that the true right belief of all the articles of the catholic faith may be in a man, & yet he may (that belief still standing) fall in to many deadly sins, without any wrong opyn●o taken agayst the right belief: now cometh Tyndale & agreeth unto that, so that he & I be therein agreed. But than would he fain save his worship with saying nay/ & therefore he denieth that we be agreed. For he saith that the thing which I call the right faith, is not the right faith. For though a man believe ●ayth he never so right, without any wrong opinion in any article of the faith/ yet but if he have true trust & full undoubted hope in god, & charity therewith also, which saith he must needs ensue thereupon, else hath he no right faith. And so Tyndale avoideth me not with any proving, that abomination and sin can not stand with the thing that is in deed a right faith/ but that abominable sin can not stand with the thing which himself calleth the right faith/ because it pleaseth not him to call a right faith, that belief that is right enough and hath none article wrong therein for as farforth as pertaineth to the nature of only faith, but if it be both faith and hope and charity to/ wherein among all learned men that here us both and see his soot shift, he winneth so much worship thereby, that he may surely be much ashamed thereof, as often as he thinketh thereof.  
But mark well good reder, that he cometh forth after and saith, that himself and such other his holy companions the true membres of their elect church, as have the right faith and the feeling faith to, that is to wit after his own doctrine full faith full hope and charity both, so surely that it can never fall from them/ may yet for all their right faith fall into abominable sinful deeds, upon great occasions breaking out of the fruit of the sin that remaineth in their sinful membres/ and may for a space persever in those horrible sinful deeds, and yet all that while their right faith doth continue, and their abominable sinful deeds to guider. And so by Tindale himself all abomination and sin may stand together with the right faith, that is not only with the right belief alone as I affirmed, but with the right belief & with good hope & charity to as Tyndale saith, which I say is plainly false. For surely the thin sotelty thereof my groce wit can in no wise perceive. And thus good christian readers for conclusion, ye now clearly see to what foolish conclusion he hath brought himself in conclusion/ and all this chapter of his with his royal riddle of sinning and not sinning, is royally run to right nought.   

How ● christian man can not err, and how he may yet err.  Tyndale. 
ANd as they sin not, so they err not. And on the other side as they sin, so they err/ but never unto death and damnation. For they never sin of purpose, nor hold any error maliciously sinning against the holy ghost/ but of weakness and infirmity. As good obedient children, though they love their fathers commandments, yet break them oft by the reason of their weakness. And as they can not yield themselves bond unto sin to serve it/ even so they can not err in any thing that should be against the promises which are in christ. And in other things their errors be not unto damnation, though they be never so great, because they hold them not maliciously.  More. 
I Shall good christian readers make no long work about this chapter. For sith the hole sum thereof is as ye see no thing else in effect, but that the true membres of Tyndals elect church, do often err and yet never err, even in like manner as they often or rather alway sin and yet never sin/ which his manifold foolish heresies in ever sinning and never sinning, I have many manner wise plainly refelled and confuted in the chapter next before: I may therefore & will ●ake a great deal the less labour and business in this.  
I will therefore but put you in remembrance that all his matter standeth only in this, that his true membres of his elect church, after that they have once gotten the true faith that saint Peter confessed/ understanding the same in such erroneous wise as Luther and Tyndale teach them with many plain pestilent heresies therein, as I have before openly and clearly declared you/ and when that they have once attained that faith, not with an historical manner as a man may believe a story, but with a feeling fashion as the child believeth that the fire is hot, because he hath burned his finger, as Tyndale will tell you in another chapter after/ who so (saith he) hath once in such a fashion attained and gotten that faith/ that is to wit who so ever is once infect with ●hose heresies, in such a fast feeling fashion, can never after err damnably. And why? For two causes saith Tyndale. One because the like as they can not sin of purpose, but of weakness & infirmity/ so can he never err in any thing at all, that should be against the promises that are in christ.  
Another cause is, because what other error so ever such a true faithful elect member of his elect church happen to fall into, so that it be not against the promises that are in Chryst, can not be damnable be it never so great/ all though the truth that is contrary to that error, be written saith Tyndale even in the very gospel itself. And why can it be no deadly sin? because saith Tindale that an elected member of his, can not hold it maliciously.  
So that by this ye may clearly see, that Tyndale affirmeth & teacheth for a truth, that in all other things bysyde the promises/ a true member of his elect church may sometime err, but never maliciously/ and that is to wit never but of weakness and furmentye, as himself hath often all ready declared. And therefore they can not in any such thing sin deadly nor damnably, be the thing never so great, and also written in the very gospel as he saith after to.  
By this also ye may clearly see, that concerning the promises that are in Chryst/ he saith that a true member can not err at all, neither maliciously nor of frailty. For sith he granteth error of infirmity in other things only that towch not the promises/ ye may clearly perceive that concerning the promises he holdeth that a true member of his elect church can not err at all in any manner of wise, neither of malice, nor purpose, nor frailty, nor weakness, nor infyrimte. So that as he putteth in all other points, only malicious error to be deadly sin & damnable/ so putteth he concerning the promises, every manner of error to be deadly sin and damnable/ be it of purpose and malice, or of infirmity, frailty, or weakness/ and for that cause a true member of his elect church can never fall therein.  
For if he meant not thus, he would not so divided these two kinds of error/ one against the promises, and the other against other things, as ye see him do/ but if it were to teach us that the tone were deadly sin and damnable every way, and the other never damnable, but if it were holden of malice/ and that therefore the true member of his elect church may err in the tone kind, so it be not maliciously, because that else it is not damnable nor deadly sin. But in the t'other concerning the promises, he can never err at all. And why? but because that every error therein were deadly sin and damnable/ & that one of his heresies is as ye have herd before, that a true member of the elected church can never sin deadly. And this ye see therefore is his plain doctrine/ which what truth it hath we shall now plainly show you.  
Let us first begin with errors against the promises in Chryst. And therein let Tyndale tell us first wherefore a true member of his elect church, can not err in any thing that is against the promises that be in Chryst/ in such wise as they may in other great articles of the faith, that be no promises. what hath he other to say, but because that every manner error though it be not holden maliciously, is yet deadly sin & damnable, if it towch any promise/ and that none other error is deadly sin or damnable, which toucheth no promise, but if it be holden maliciously.  
Then must we further ask him, whereby he woteth and whereby he proveth, that every manner error in every article of any promise that is in Chryst, is deadly sin & damnable, though it come but of weakness and frailty/ and none ●rrour in any other article, be it never so great is damnable & deadly, but if it be holden of malice.  
we must ask him whereby he knoweth that it is inowg● for his salvation, to believe the promise of god in Chryst, tha● thorough christ he shallbe saved/ & believe not that christ & the holy ghost be one equal god with the father, by which three persons & one god he shallbe saved. For the Chryst is one god equal with the father, it is no promise made unto us/ nor that the holy ghost is so neither/ but it is a thing by god told unto us. And I marvel much by what means Tindale can prove us, that there is any less apparel in not believing of gods other words, then in the words of his promises/ sith he bindeth us to believe them both a like.  
The cause of our salvation is not the belief of the promise, nor the trust therein neither, of any proper nature of that belief in the promise/ no more than the nature of our good works, is able of itself for our salvation/ but the ordinance of god, that it pleaseth him to save us for our obedience of his commandment both in the belief and the work. For as he could if it so pleased him, bring us all unto the bliss of heaven without any good work at all/ so could he if he list, bring us all thither without any faith at all. For he could bring us thither without any knowledge given us thereof, till we came thither and had it. So it appeareth clearly, that the cause of the salvation standeth all in the obedience of god's commandment/ whereby he biddeth us, and by his bidding bindeth us, to captive our understanding in to the obedience of faith and believe his promises.  
Now if this be thus as of troth it is/ what doubt is there but that we be as upon like reward, so upon like apparel & pain, bounden to believe all other things that god telleth us, as well as the things which he promiseth us.  
And therefore if Tyndale will to the contrary look to be believed of any man in this point/ he must according to his own rule● bring forth plain and open scripture, by which god hath told us by writing, that if we believe once his promises, care for no more. For as for all other things that be no promises, he will that we be at liberty to believe as we list/ so that there be no malice in us. And why at more liberty of believing god in his other words, then in his promises? I can not perceive what cause Tyndale can imagine/ but if he be so mad to think, that god will in all his other tales that him list to tell us, though they be written in the very gospel as Tyndale saith after, have us yet at liberty in believing him, because himself would be at liberty to tell us for his pleasure sometime true tallies, and sometime such as Tyndale telleth, that is to wit untruth and lies.  
Surely this is a marvelous tale of Tyndale in my mind/ & a marvelous difference that he putteth between the belief of the promises and the belief of all the other articles of the faith. As though the belief of the promises only, were so far above the belief of any other article/ when every man that any wit hath, may well and clearly see, that the belief of the promises do so depend upon some other articles, that the belief of those articles gone, the belief of the promises and all together were gone. As who so were (as many have been) so mad to believe that there were no god at all/ with him were gods promises quite gone. And his sin were as great that erred in not believing there were any god, as his that believing there were a god, erred yet in that he believed not that ever he made any promise to man. And yet in god's promises Tyndale meaneth only the promises of god made unto mankind/ for so far go saint Peter's words, 
Matth. 16.  qui in hunc mundum venisti, is Tyndals' exposition to. And therefore as for Tyndale, ye see well so that he believe that his elect church of mankind shallbe saved/ he may without any apparel cheese whither he will believe that ever any angel is eternally saved or not/ notwithstanding that Chryst said of saint Iohn the baptist, that the lest in heaven was greater than he. 
Lucae. 7.  yet because it was but a tale told by the mouth of Chryst, and not a promise made/ & specially sith it was no promise of any gift given to man: Tyndale may dystruste it and deny it if he list, if his wit have any such weakness, and so that he do it not of malice/ for all that it is plainly written in the very gospel, and there told by gods own mouth.  
Concerning yet the promises made to man/ let us consider which things be promises, and which things be not the very promises, but other articles beside. That we shallbe saved thorough Chryst and by Christ's passion, is a promise. And yet that Chryst himself was the same very person, by whom that deed should be done, is more properly a tale then a promise. And it may be that a man believing the promise that mankind shall be saved thorough Chryst, may yet err in not believing that jesus the son of Mary was that christ. And of troth either in that error or very near to that error, be all the hole sect of jews. So that it is as great apparel not to believe god in his tale, when he said this is my well-beloved son in whom I much delight/ as not to believe him in his promise made unto Habraam, 
Matth. 17.  that of his seed should such a saviour come. 
Genesis. 22.  For it is not all one to promise that of him should one come by whom the world should be saved, and to tell him this is the man that in my promise I spoke of. For a promise and a tale be not both one thing. For though every promise by in deed a tale, sith no man can make a promise but if he tell it: yet is not every tale a promise, as every child perceiveth. And therefore saint Peter took a sure way, when he said, Thou art Chryst that art come into this world/ taking it for a principal point to believe god's tale. For the tale that this was he which as our saviour said, the father in heaven had himself told unto Peter, that tale Peter confessed, that jesus was christ which was then comen into the world. But the promise which was the saving of the world that should be wrought in him/ that thing saint Peter spoke not of there, as a thing believed and looked for afore/ nor of the mean of the saving that it should be by his passion, that thing saint Peter as Tyndale saith at that time knew not of/ so that the tale and the promise were not all one.  
But surely concerning the belief of God's promises/ Tyndale seemeth to far as the jews do. For like as many of them believe, that thorough christ the world shall be saved/ and yet they lose the fruit of that belief, because they will not know who is christ: even so Tyndale saith, 
Matth. 28.  that he believeth Christ's promise made unto his church here in earth, that his holy spirit shallbe therewith unto the worlds end, and teach it and lead it into every troth. 
johan. 16.  But he loseth yet the fruit of that belief (if he believe it as he saith he doth) because that he will not know which is Christ's ●hyrche here in earth. But like as the Turks in stead of the true saviour of the world, worship the false deceiver Machomet/ so Tyndale in stead of the true catholic church of Chryst (of which church Chryst would that every man should learn the ●routh, which the holy ghost by Christ's promise teacheth, and ever shall tech unto it● and which church must for that cause needs be a congregacyo● known) Tyndale taketh not only a secret scattered company unknown, but also a rabble of false malicious heretics, teaching to the doctrine of gods spyryt abiding by Christ's promise in his catholic church, even clean the contrary.  
And also where as Chryst when he turned the breed into his own precious body, & the wine into his blessed blood, & commanded the same to be done for ever in his church after in remembrance of his passion, 
Lucae. 22.  & did in so commanding make a faithful promise, that himself would be for ever with his church in that holy sacrament/ & for a perpetual memory of his bitter passion that he suffered for us, would give his own flesh that suffered passion, & his own blood that was shed in his passion, to abide perpetually with us, according to his own words spoken unto his church, when he said, 
Matth. 28.  I am with you all days unto the end of the world: Tyndale will not now believe that promise at all/ but as I have in my first book by his own words proved you, maketh mocks and mows at that blessed sacrament, and calleth it but cake breed, and reasoneth it rather for starch full like a stark heretic god wot, and saith it is neither body nor blood at all.  
And thus where he so highly magnifyeth the belief of god's promises only, setting all other articles of the faith as things of a second sort/ himself believeth as ye see the promises as little as the t'other.  
But now let us go ferther in his words, & see for what cause he saith, that none other error in any thing save the promises can be damnable, be they never so great. Lo thus he saith,  Tyndale. 
In other things that be not the promises, their errors be not unto damnation, though they be never so great, because they hold them not maliciously. As now, if some when they read in the new testament of Christ's brethren, would think that they were our ladies children after the birth of Chryst, because they know not the use of the speaking of the scripture/ or of the hebrews how that nigh kinsmen be called brethren, or happily they might be joseph's children by some first wife, neither can have any to teach him for Tyranny that is so great/ yet could it not hurt him though he died therein, because it hurteth not the redemption that is in Christ's blood. For though she had none but Chryst/ I am therefore never the more saved, neither yet the less though she had had. And in such like an hundred that pluck not a man's faith from christ, they might err and yet be never the less saved/ no though the contrary were written in the gospel. For as in other sins, as soon as they be rebuked they repent/ even so here as soon as they were better taught, they should immediately knowledge their error and not resist.  More. 
Here have ye good readers the reason and the cause, wherefore the true membres of Tyndals church can never sin deadly, though they err in any article that is no promise, be the article never so great. The cause is saith he, because that like wise as in all other sins as soon as they be rebuked they repent/ even so as soon as they be better taught, they repent their error, and believe the troth, and resist not/ and for that cause it is no deadly sin in the mean season, before they be rebuked and taught better, all though they died in those errors, were the articles never so great, and the contrary troth written in the gospel, so that they be none of the promises.  
This is the hole sum and effect of this hole chapter, though he trifle with other things between. And therefore will we first ask him by what scripture or by what reason, he proveth that every person which is elected to be saved, shall repent as soon as ever he is rebuked of any sin that he doth.  
He will show peradventure, that David did so, & happily some other to. That will be a very bare argument. David was an elect person/ and he did so, ergo every elected person doth so? This argument will be very like the form of arguing, that young children use in grammar schools. Asinus meus habet aures, & tu habes aures, ergo tu es asinus meus. Mine ass hath ears, and thou hast ears/ ergo thou art my a●se.  
first I suppose that Tyndale will himself agree what so ever he saith here, that such rebuking at which his elect person shall alway so soon repent and return, had need to come after the rage passed● as himself saith, that when the rage is passed he shall repent. For if such a rebuker come while the rage is on him, while the man is forward upon his viage, and as Tyndale saith upon his great occasions carried forth with concupisbence, thorough the fruit of the sin that breaketh out of his membres/ the rebuker may fortune at that time to speak twice ere he go back again with him. ye and what so ever Tyndale say, when the great ●●ge is passed to/ yet is there many a man in heaven that hath after baptism fallen full often to sin, and not repent always at the first rebuke/ but not withstanding many rebukings & much calling upon, both by their friends and good ghostly fathers, ha●e yet lain l●nge th●●in/ and 〈◊〉 all that have a●ter amended and pro●ed full virtuous men, and else g●d forbid. And this point is so open and evident, not only in scripture, but also at every ma●nes eye/ that I nothing fere but that every wise man, will in this point take Tyndals' ●al● for a very false invented folly.  
A●● then sith he maketh this point the gro●●de of the tother● that is to wit that every elect pers●● shall● in like wise at the first teaching, as soon as he is better taught, repent every error that he holdeth/ it shall well follow that the second is as false and as foolish as the first, and so is it in very deed.  
For it may be full well that a right good man may be miss led by such as Tyndale is/ & thorough such folks false persuasions, may fall in errors and heresies more than one, not only beside the promises, but also in the promises to/ extending some to far and cutting some to short, as Luther, Huyskyn, and Tyndale do. And their untrue doctrine may be so deep entered and rooted in the good simple soul, that when he is by better men better taught, he shall not repent his errors at the first nor at the second time neither, but defend them many a time & oft/ and yet shall at length with help of god's grace, apply his will rather indyfferently to perceive the truth, then frowardly to stick still in heresy/ & so shall fall in to the right way again, and very clearly see that those blind heretics had led him in darkness before.  
For else if Tyndale said true, that every elect person would be reform at the first/ it must follow that who so ever did not when he were better taught, return and be reform at the first, w●re a final reprobate and should never be saved. And then were it vain to talk with him ofter than once, if he would not turn at the first as soon as he were once well taught. For by Tyndals' tale, he that is elect shall by and by a●sent unto the troth, as soon as it is told him, and forthwith repent his error.  
If the old holy doctors and saints had been of Tyndals' mind/ they should have left in heresy many a man whom they could not conue●te at the first, and yet converted them after very well. And truly if saint Ambrose had taken it for an undoubted token of invincible malice in heresy, when so ever himself was not at the first teaching believed and obeyed/ it is very likely that he never should have c●●uerted saint Abstain to the truth, from more erro●●s then one.  
For though saint Poule counsel Titus, 
Ad Titum. 4.  that the man why che●er● an ●●retyke, he should after one warning or twayn● e●●●we● y●t meant he not to forbid him the oftener calling vp●n him after, with good & wholesome counsel.  
For as ●aynt Chrysosth●m saith, if the devil do not despair to turn a man at last from god unto himself, though he missed his purpose oftentimes before, and that so farforth that he letted not to assay job again & again for all the patience that he found in him, and all the praise also that god gave him himself/ it were a great shame if a good man should despair to convert a sinner from the devil to god, because he can not bring it to pass at once. And yet by Tyndals' doctrine, if a sinner did not repent at the first rebuking, and he that were in error leave his error at the first true teaching/ we must needs perceive thereby that he were none elect, and consequently that he were a plain reprobate, that finally should be dampened what so ever were said or done unto him/ and that it were therefore in vain to go any more about to turn him again to god, but l●ue him still to the devil. were not this ween you good readers a godly wise way?  
I dare boldly say that Tyndale himself if he should meet with a man of the true catholic faith, and should find him fas●e therein when he would teach him his heresies/ though he could not at the first teaching nor at the second neither, bring him from the troth, yet would he not leave him so by his will/ but would assay him ofter, and prece upon him still, not without hope to win him and beguile him at the last. Now say I then to Tyndale, that his hope of the man's change to his sect, either because himself shall in the labouring of him to draw him to it, play the devils part, and think that though an elect shall turn from evil to good always at the first motion, and that therefore if he turn not at the first it is in vain to go any more about him/ yet a reprobate though he turn not from his present good state unto sin at the first, shall turn after well enough/ and therefore he will labour him still to his sect. And then in thinking thus, Tyndale taketh the catholic faith for good and his own sect for nought. Or else if he take the catholic faith for false, from which he g●th about to get the man/ and his own sect for good, to which he laboureth to bring him: then I say that sith he will not leave of when his doctrine is resisted at the first, he condem●neth plainly the hole tale that he telleth here. For if every pe●son elect, shall as he saith here, repent his error always at the first, as soon as he is taught the truth/ then th●s man that at the first after the truth once taught him by Tyndale, did for all that resist it/ made Tyndale surely to know, that he was none of the elects, and that he therefore was a reprobate of god, that fynylly should be dampened with the devil/ & so should Tyndale lose no more labour about him.  
And this were thus after Tyndale, though the man's error were but in such articles as be no promises. For if it were in any of the promises, that Tyndale should find a man after baptism believe as the church believeth, against the heresies that he believeth/ that is to wit believing against Tyndale, that gods promise of salvation in the blood of christ, doth not quite put away shrift and all penytencyall works toward satisfaction, and all punishment for any sin repent, to be sustained either in this world or purgatory/ but that so to believe & trust in god's promise, is a damnable error against god's promise: if Tindale I say find such a man, he should by his own tale here perceive that man forthwith for a desperate heretic/ because that if himself say true, that none elect person can after his baptism ever fall in to any error concerning any of the promises, than should himself know that he whom he found in that error concerning god's promyse● were a final reprobate/ & then should let him alone and lose no labour in turning of him. And saving my charity, I beshrew him heartily that he doth not so.  
But thus good christian readers ye may well perceive, that there is no truth in Tyndals' tale. And that the proof of all his hole conclusion in this chapter, that none elect can fall into any error against the promises/ and that all other articles they repent their errors as soon as they b● taught the truth and that they repent all their other sins as ●oone as they be rebuked/ hangeth all by the moan shine. And that neither of both his heresies, toward the proof whereof he would make this conclusion serve/ 〈◊〉 why●h two the tone is that none elect person can after his baptism sin of purpose nor willingly, and ye●other that necessarily dependeth thereupon, that who so ever after baptism break any of god's commandments willingly and of purpose, shall never after be saved/ can take here none an●●e hold at all. But as they be both twain by the blast of the devils mouth blown out abroad, against the strong rocks of Christ's catholic church, and the mighty majesty of god/ so be they both twain there fallen to wreck, and shatered all to fytters.  
yet for because that Tyndale in such things as be no promises/ in all which things he saith be they never so great, the elect may err and die in that error for lack of good teaching, and yet never be dampened therefore, because they hurt not the redemption that is in Christ's blood: because Tyndale I say for his ensample of such kind of things as be no promises, putteth the perpetual vyrginyte of our lady/ it is good to consider in what manner he handleth it.  Tyndale. 
If some of them (that is to wit the true membres of the elect church) when they read in the new testament of Christ's bret●e●●e, would think that they were our ladies children after the birth of Chryst, because they know not the use of the speky●ge of the scripture/ or of the hebrews how that nigh kinsmen be called brothers, or happily they might be joseph's children's by some first wife, neither can have any to teach him for Tyranny that is so great/ yet could it not hurt him though he died therein, because it hurteth not the redemption that is in Christ's blood.  More. 
Consider good reder, how many things here fall upon Tyndals' head at once, by his own fond handling of this ensample.  
first it is folly for him to put, that for tyranny now any man should lack teaching, that those children were not borne of our ladies body/ sith that article is as well & commonly known as any of the promises/ and as long hath been known, and as fully, and as commonly believed thorough Christendom, as any other article of the christian faith. And none article is there almost in the christen faith which hath not had more heretics against it, than this article of our ladies perpetual vyrginyte/ so that it is now so well known, and that solution also of nigh kindred called brethren among the Hebrews, that Tyndale never needed to cumber his book therewith.  
besides this, himself & his own doctrine destroyeth his own solution. For he saith that we be bounden to believe none article, but if it be proved by plain scripture. Now though he teach now the true members of his elect church, the thing that every child can tell all ready, that among the Hebreus the near kinsmen were called brethren: what hath he taught them thereby? any other thing, then that the scripture doth not prove, that our lady had ever any more children than Chryst. He doth not yet by the scripture teach his true membres, to perceive that she had no more, but only that the scripture saith not plain the contrary. But than doth he by his own rule bysyde, teach them that they may believe at their liberty if they list, that she had more children in deed. And furthermore he teacheth them, that they should in no wise take it for any sure article of their by life, that she was a perpetual virgin, and never had more children after Chryst. This point he teacheth plainly after his master Luther, as ye have herd all ready thorough out his hole title, wherein he laboureth to prove that the apostles have left nothing unwritten, the belief whereof were necessary to salvation. which false assertion of his I have in divers places of my former books clearly confuted/ & in the end of my third book have answered and avoided all his hole chapter thereof. But now sith in this present place, Tyndale himself granteth, that the cause why an elect person shall be saved, though he happen to err & think that our lady was not a perpetual virgin, is because that he shall repent that error when he is taught the contrary: plain it is to any man, that himself therein confesseth now, that it is a necessary article for salvation, that to every man at the lest wise to whom it is opened & taught/ sith the cause of his salvation which before believed the contrary, is by Tyndale himself the repenting of his former error.  
Now than it is so that Tyndale doth in sundry places, confess & agree that this point can not be proved by plain and evident scripture. Ergo he confesseth here plainly, the contrary of that he so fastly before hath affirmed, while he taught that there is no thing to be believed for a surety, but if it be proved by plain and evident scripture/ and that the apostles have left no thing unwritten, which men are bounden to believe upon pain of damnation.  
This doctrine of his master and his own hath he as ye now see by his own handling of this matter, here utterly destroyed and dampened.  
Now if he will happily for shame, labour to seek some shift, and say that he meaneth no more but to put this difference between the articles of the faith in the promises, and all other articles, that none error in any of the other is damnable, till the man that miss believeth be better taught the troth/ and that then he is bounden to believe them, whither they be in scripture or not/ but in the belief of the promises, every error and ignorance also is damnable ere ever they be taught. For no man shallbe saved but if he be taught them and have the faithful belief of them: thus must Tyndale needs say for aught that I can see/ or else must he confess, that one piece of his doctrine plainly destroyeth another, concerning his difference between the promises and other articles.  
But yet abedeth still against him, that sith he confesseth the perpetual virginity of our lady, to be now that it is taught necessary to be believed, which is not written in scripture: still I say standeth it stiffly against him, that he hath destroyed all his principal ground, where about his master & himself have taken so great labour to make men ween that nothing was necessarily to be believed, but if it were evidently written in holy scripture.  
But now concerning his difference, between the necessity of the belief of the promises, and the belief of the other articles/ we shall tell him that it willbe peradventure hard for him to prove his saying true, specially taking the promises as himself taketh them.  
For in the beginning upon the first preaching of saint Peter, 
Ac●uū. 2.  when there were so many so suddenly chrystened thereupon/ whereby can Tyndale prove that all they were fully taught the faith of the promises before they were baptized, or that none died ere ever they were taught any ferther/ or that if they died forthwith upon their baptism, that then their Christendom stood them not in stead for lack of ferther instruction of the promises. Concerning which I dare be bold to say, that they were never taught the doctrine that Tyndale calleth so necessary, that he teacheth the lack of that faith in the promise to be damnable. For they were I say never taught, that they must believe that the promise should save them & get them of all their sins at any time after their baptism committed, at their bare repentance, always full remission of sin & pain, & all in purgatory or in this world either, and without any regard of any good work at all, or of any purpose thereof, other then bare repentance and faith in the promises. I dare well say they died all that were th●● baptized, ere ever they heard any thing of this point ●f faith in the promises/ which was never thought upon by saint Peter nor any of his fellows then, nor yet no man else, till it was devised by the devil, & put forth by heretics when charity waxed cold many a winter after.  
If Tyndale make us many questions of them that were so suddenly chrystened so many at once in the beginning: we will yet be bold to tell him that many children die now soon after that they come from christening, ere ever they be weshed out of the chrysome/ of which I suppose that some were never taught fully the faith of the promises ere they died.  
If he say to this that though they were not taught it actually, yet by the gift of god in the sacrament, it is taught and infunded into their souls habytually: then will we ask him whereby he proveth then his difference, between the faith of the promises and of the other articles/ but if he prove us that only the faith of the promises is infused, and of the other articles not. which when he proveth you, believe him/ and in the mean while, believe that his evasion is not worth a fly.  
If he will say that the children baptized, and so forthwith departing, have no faith at all/ but be saved only by the faith of their friends, and by that our lord hath received them to the sacrament of baptism, and by the sacrament of baptism hath received them to grace & glory, without any faith of their own: then giveth he to the sacrament against all his other doctrine, a great effycacite of grace, and maketh it not only a sign. And yet granteth he then bysyde, the thing that he denieth/ that is to wit that some may be saved being ignorant, not only of some of the promises, but also of them all.  
Besides this, if we would grant him the thing that he can never prove: yet were he never the near. For though it were true that without belief of all the promises, no man might be saved/ but that the bare ignorance of any of them were damnable, and that the ignorance of any other article were not damnable, nor the contrary belief till they were opened and taught: yet sith men were (as Tyndale hath here confessed) bounden upon pain of damnation to believe the perpetual v●rginite of our lady, and to repent their forma● error to the contrary as soon as they be taught it, notwithstanding that it can not be proved by plain and evident scripture: then must Tyndale grant that it is like wise of every other like article, that is to say of every article, which is true and must be believed when it is taught bysyde the promises, though it can not be proved by scripture, no more than the article of the perpetual virginity of our lady.  
Then ask we Tindale how knoweth he those articles which be necessary articles of the faith, of which articles the contrary belief were damnable after the troth of those articles taught, the same articles not being written in scripture. Doth Tyndale know them by any other mean, then by the church/ sith they be not taught him by scripture? For it were hard that he should in such a matter believe the authority of any one man, but if that either god bid him believe him, or that for lack of scripture he prove the troth of his doctrine by miracle, or by miracle prove himself to be appointed by god to teach him/ by reason whereof he might be ●yleued, though he prove not every particular point of his doctrine by a several miracle/ except as great or greater miracles be done or have b●ne done by some that teacheth or hath taught the contrary. In which perplexite god will either never bring us or never leave us.  
Therefore conclude I, that Tyndale must needs grant, that he knoweth not those articles but by the church. 
Lucae. 10.  which church hath proved itself by millions of miracles, 
Matth. 28.  and which church god biddeth him believe, 
johan. 16.  and saith he will dwell therewith always, and send his spirit to teach and inform it, and lead it into every trowth.  
Of this church therefore must Tyndale learn those articles, or else can not be bounden to believe them, & to repent his forma● errors to the contrary, but if he say that himself have them by special revelation of god, privately showed unto himself. And then if he say so, he must either believe them alone/ or else if he will be believed in them/ & have other men believe them with him/ then must he prove us them by scripture or miracle. And sith I dare answer for him, that in such articles he lacketh those two/ there is no remedy for him but he must needs confess that he is taught the surety of those articles, and learneth which they be, only by the church of christ.  
Then ask we Tyndale further, which is that church of christ, by which he is taught to know those necessary articles from all other/ the belief whereof is not necessary to salvation. He can not say that he learned it of any unknown church, for no such company can he know for the church/ but he must needs confess that he learneth to know those articles by the known church. And then by which known church? let him name any which he will, except the known catholic church which himself impugneth/ and he shall name a company of no credence in that point. For by his own agreement they must lack scripture for those articles (for of such articles we speak) and they have no miracles. wherefore finally when he hath all done/ this article alone of the perpetual virginity of our lady (the contrary error whereof after the troth taught, himself confesseth to be damnable) driveth him of very fine force, to confess that the church by which he knoweth the undoubted truth of this article, sith he knoweth it not by plain and evident scripture, is not his own secret unknown church of elec●es, which as ye see himself can not yet well describe us, udr any known church of heretics/ but the very comen known catholic church, which himself goth all this while about to impugn and destroy. In which only church christ hath promised to dwell and abide, to teach it every necessary truth unto the end of the world/ & unto the only faith of which church, he hath promised and given the gift of working miracles. which miracles ●yth we clearly see persever and continue in this church only/ we may clearly thereby see, that this church only is that church also, to which only the other promise of the holy ghosts perpetual residence and inspiration was made.  
To this point is Tyndale now good christian r●der driven of necessity/ but if he will say that this hole multitude of the known catholic church, is not the very church, but only the good men & elects that be within the same.  
Now if he ween to escape out so/ he shall be soon set in. For then at the lest wise he knowledgeth, that there are no good men out of this church/ nor no man hath any true sure faith but it be learned of this church, or of some membres of the same. And then sith himself and his fellows be out of this church/ both wilfully first departed out, & after worthly cast out: themself be none of them of whom the troth can be learned. Also to say that he therein believeth only the good men of the known church/ that thing hath himself made impossible to serve him/ for they be by him the only elects, which may by his own doctrine though they can do no deadly sin, do horrible deeds yet, and so seem very nought. And in this common known church, the common known faith or belief is all one, both with the good and the bad, though the living be diverse. If Tyndale dare deny that/ let him look in the works of saint austin, saint Hierom, saint Cypryane, saint Ambrose, saint basil, saint Gregory, saint Chrysostome, & all the other old holy doctors and saints, of every time this fifteen hundred year/ and he shall not for very shame say nay, but that against Luther & him those holy saints had the same faith that the common catholic lay people have yet unto this day/ as for ensample, that it is an horrible abomination, that any monk or frere should wed a nun. wherein if Tyndale dare say that I lie/ let Tyndale as I have often said, bring forth of all the old holy saints, some one that said the contrary/ which I am very sure he can not. So that finally, Tyndale is comen again to the same point, that he must in faith and belief of such articles, believe the common consent of the hole church/ and not take his doctrine of any one man or any few, that would in faith vary, serve, and fall from the common faith of the hole catholic church/ not though there fell away parcel meal, so many that they left the church for the fewer part.  
For god shall for the knowledge of his true church ever more among many other things, specially provide twain. One, that they which depart out thereof shall never agree together in one belief. Another, that the light of miracles shall never shine among any of their churches, but only in his old true catholic church remaining. And therein shall they still continue, without any wonders wrought in any of the false counterfeited churches of heretics, until that antichrist shall come himself/ which as help me god I very greatly fere is now very near at hand. But when he is ones comen/ our lord be thanked he shall not very long endure, ere christ shall himself with the blast of his blessed mouth, blow that proud best to nought.  
Now good christian reder, sith it is proved plainly upon Tyndals own handling of this article of our ladies perpetual virgynite, that Tyndale could not have learned the troth of that article of any man, but if he learned it by credence given to the common known church, which he will not know for the very church, but impugneth it/ and sith himself granteth also, that the contrary error of that article is damnable after the troth taught, for as much as his own elected persons that so have erred before, can not be after saved but by repentance of that error: he must needs confess also, that of all other like articles which come in question, & are not in the scripture either spoken of at all, or not plain & evidently proved/ the sure troth and certeyntye can not be had by no man, but it be first commonly learned of the same church, by credence given thereunto, for the trust of Christ's promise made thereto, that himself and his holy spirit would for ever be resident therein, 
Matth. 2●.  and teach it every necessary truth/ that is to wit every troth, 
johan. 1●.  to the belief whereof he would have his people bounden.  
Now followeth it further good christen reder upon this, that Tyndale is in this matter so caught in a net of his own making/ that he must either lie tumbling still therein like a fool, and the more he striveth therewith the more all way meshe and entangle himself faster and faster therein/ or wisely give up his heresies and renounce his former errors/ and from henceforth utterly knowledge & confess, that against his hole purpose he is upon his own words clearly convinced & concluded, not only that the very church is the common known church which hitherto he hath denied and stiffly striveth against, but also that in the sacraments, vows, faith, and good wurkes, and finally every thing wherein the catholic known chy●che and himself have been at variance/ he must learn the troth of the same church, 
L●cae. 10.  and therein believe that church, & give credence thereunto. which if he do not endeavour himself to do, but resist their doctrine/ god which hath commanded him to believe and obey the church, shall never work with him toward the belief.  
And thus good christian readers for the final conclusion of this chapter/ here ye may plainly see, that I might well if I would with this same chapter make an end of all the hole matter. For ye well remember that all our matter in this book, is between Tyndale and me no thing else in effect but to find out which church is the very church. For sith he seeth himself plainly bounden to give credence to that church which so ever be it/ he therefore in all his book bringeth it in to darkness, & laboureth to make it unknown/ because he would not by the knowledge thereof, have his heresies known and reproved.  
And now ye see that as our lady would, by his foolish handling of the article of her perpetual virginity, he is quite overthrown/ and hath it plainly proved unto him upon his own words, that the very church is none other, but this that he denieth/ that is to wit the common known catholic people, clergy, lay folk, and all/ which what so ever their living be (among whom undoubtedly there ar● of both sorts many right good and virtuous) do stand together and agree in the confession of one true catholic faith, with all old holy doctors and saints, and good christian people bysyde that are all ready passed this fifteen hundred year before, against Arrius, Otho, Lambert, Luther, and wyclyffe, zuinglius, Huten, Hu●se, and Tyndale, & all the rabble of such erroneous heretics.  
And therefore as I say, saving that I will go ferther to show you some what of his ferther folly/ else might I well even here both end this present chapter, and also this hole work/ wherein with a few of his own wise words, Tyndale hath confounded himself, and stroyed all his hole matter.  
For as touching his accustumable railing in the end of his chapter, with which he would seem to touch the catholic church/ it is all so clean against himself, and so clearly describeth and depeynteth himself and his own fellows, that if we would labour sore to find out what evil we might say by them we could find no better thing to put us in remembrance of every point of their mischievous matters, than Tyndals own words that he writeth here himself. Lo thus he saith.  Tyndale. 
But they which maliciously maintain opinions against the scripture, Here should he say as for ensample they that maintain that freres may wed nuns.  
or that that can not be proved byscrypture, One of these things is as ye have herd, the perpetual virginity of our lady, which himself hath confessed in this same chapter, that the true membres of his elect church, must needs believe after that they be once taught it. And then if themself be bounden to believe it, they be bounden to stand thereby & maintain it. And so speaketh Tyndale clear against himself.  
or such as maketh no matter unto the scripture, He meaneth such things as were not of necessity requisite to be written in scripture/ and therefore he writeth like himself. For there is not one article of the faith that of necessity needed to be written, but that god could both have taught them & kept them without writing. As he hath taught & kept some/ as for ensample the perpetual virginity of our lady, which Tyndale hath both denied, & confessed, & denied again, & woteth never where to hold him/ the devil so troubleth his brains. and to salvation that is in christ, whither they be true or no/ The church hath none such as make no matter to salvation. For every thing that god will have believed pertaineth to salvation/ sith the contrary belief is disobedience to god that so taught it his church, because he would have it believed. And that the perpetual virginity of our lady is of such sort, Tyndale hath himself openly & plainly agreed/ & yet would he now secretly steel back again. Not wittingly peradventure, but that the devil pulleth him back by his cote skirt unware.  
and for the blind zeal of them make sects, breaking the unity of Christ's church, for whose sake they ought to suffer all things/ and rese against their neighbours (whom they ●ught to love as themselves) to slay them: such men I say are fallen from Chryst and make an idol of their opinions. For except they put trust in such opinions and thought them necessary unto salvation, or with a cankered conscience went about to deceive for some filthy purpose/ th●y would never break the unity of faith or ye sle their brethren. Now good reder, consider who make sects, that is to say sundry parts & dyvisions, & breaketh the unite of Christ's church, whither the catholic church that was agreed all of our mind, believing purgatory, & the equal godhead of christ with his father and the holy ghost, and the blessed body and blood of Chryst in the sacrament of the altar, & all the other holy sacraments, & the perpetual virginity of our lady, & prayed unto her and other holy saints, & did reverence to their relics, images, & kept holy days and fasting days, and believed all very fast & firmly that is was abominable sacrilege for a frere to wed a nun. In all these things and many other good things more, were all good christen people agreed in one by the spirit of god without any variance/ as appeareth plainly both by the old continued books of s●ruyce used in the churches thorough christendom, & by the books of the old holy doctors & saints in every age of time/ saving only when such heretics as Arrius, wycliffe, Luther, Lambert, Huyskyn, Husse, & Tyndale, and such other like, here & there, some in one time, some in another, and the very worst in our time, have been by the devil stirred up, to stroy the true faith & vary from the catholic corpse of christendom, & make new fond sects of their own foolish brains. And where he speaketh of killing and slaying their brethren/ himself can tell well enough the good christian princes & other virtuous people, did in the beginning greatly forbear such heretics/ till that they were finally fain in avoiding of their seditious trouble, & for the repressing of their inemendable malice, 
1. Timoth. 1.  to follow th'ensample of saint Poule/ and as he betook some of them to the devil, to the punishment of their bodies in help of their souls or ceacing of their sinful blasphemy: so by temporal laws & bodily punishment, to finish the infinite malice & intolerable trouble of those heretics, for the safeguard of good people in peace & tranquillity. which common peace & quiet if the heretics had not perturbed/ they had been themself much more easily handled. But as Tyndale knoweth that this is true/ so knoweth he well again that the heretics have been those, that did in christendom begin to fight, kill, and slay, before that themself were killed & slain, or any thing fought withal/ and that they began to be killed & fought withal, by their own importune malice, whereby the catholic people were constrained and compelled to kill them in the necessary defence of innocentes. And that this is true/ Tindale knoweth very well, both by the stories as well of England as of other places, and also by the experience of his own days in almain, thorough the cruel insurrection there of his own fellows the heretics of his own sect. which rose there, and rob, burned, and killed, not one naughty knave or two in a town as good kings and princes do these horrible and incorigible heretics, and yet sometime s●ant ones in ten year, & in some good town not once in ten score year/ but hole goodly monasteries they burned up and destroyed/ and some where all the churches almost thorough the hole country, rob, spoiled, and bare away all that ever they fond/ dyspyghted the saints images, relics, the crucifix & the blessed sacrament, rob mayhemed, and murdered many good virtuous people. And by gods good sufferance, they ceaced not at the clergy/ b●t fely●g fruit, went ferther & fell to their lords lands. So that they that winked and cared not for god's part, were fain to wake within a while & care for their own part. And then they fell upon the heretics again, & killed of them above iii score thousand in divers places all in one summer. Sins which time in Swycherlande even this last year zuinglius set his heretics in a rage again, to pill & spoil the true catholics of his own country. But god gave the victory to his faithful folk, that were full loath to fight with them, saving the very force drove them to the field, where they bore over their enemies. And zuinglius himself tharchheretic of all/ was there deadly wounded & taken, & after y● burned up. Such fair fortune had Tindals' master there, of whom he took his heresies against the blessed sacrament. And therefore, where Tyndale speaketh of killing of heretics whom he calleth his christian brethren/ he knoweth it well himself that his own unhappy fellows the heretics I say themself, began first the guise. And as they begun it even so they keep it still. And surely there is no doubt but that Tyndale himself hath longed long, & yet ever looketh for, that as the Lutherans & zuinglianies have begun to rise & ruffle in rebellion in sundry parts of Almaigne/ so he might see his disciples assay some feet here. But I trust in god's grace & in the kings goodness, their hearts shall all faint ere they come thereto. And if the devil were so strong with them as to stir them up/ I would wish Tindale among them & frere Barns to. For I little doubt if they did, but both captains & company (as zuinglius and his ambushment came shortly to mischief) if god sit where he sat, should have like luck.  
Now is this a plain conclusion, that both they that trust in their own works, Lo what a apparel here were, if a frere should put any trust in chastity & keeping of his vow. But & if he trust in lechery with wedding of a nun, then is he safe enough/ because that work is not his own work but the work of the devil, and of the sin that breaketh out of his members. And they also that put trust in their own opinions/ be falle● from christ, and err from the way of faith that is in Christ's blood/ and therefore are none of Christ's church, because they be not built upon the rock of faith. This doth himself and his fellows that are heretics. For the articles that the hole catholic church put trust● in, be not the opinion of any man but the sure doctrine of god. whereof the certainty of the truth dependeth upon the promise of our saviour himself, which hath promised that they holy ghost shall teach his church all troth and lead it there unto. And therefore if it be true as in deed it is, that the which trust in their own wurkes, and make idols of their own opinions, and break the unyon of the church, and make sundry sects, and kill their christian brethren, be fallen from Chryst & from the way of faith that is in Christ's blood/ and therefore are none of Christ's church, because they be not built upon the rock of faith: then must it needs follow, that Luther, Lambert, zuinglius Huskyn, and Tyndale, and all other of their sundry sects, be fallen from christ and are from the way of faith that is in Christ's blood/ and therefore are none of Christ's church, because they put trust in their own vain inventions, and make idols of their own false opinions. For which they break the peace and unity both of the church and of the faith, by making of sects and sownyg sedition and dissension to stir up rebellion and insurrection against their neighbours and their governors, and thereby cause the robbery, pillage, spoil, and murder of their good catholic christian brethren. And do put also their trust in their own works, not in fasting, praying, almose, or any good work/ but in destruction of monasteries, casting out of religion, expulsyon of chastity, with wedding of nuns and living in lechery, profaning of churches, polluting of altars, blaspheming of saints, rasshing down their images, casting out their relics, dyspyghting our lady, de●ylynge the crucifix, and finally mocking and mowing at the blessed sacrament. And thus abusing themself, they declare lo very clearly that they be not built upon the rock of faith/ but with the breath of dampened spirits be blown down to the devil. I pray god amend them, and set them on that rock again. And here an end of this chapter/ in which ye see lo to what pleasant pass first his rial riddles of sin and not sin, err and not err/ & after his rial railing of making sectes● breaking of unite, killing of chrysten brethren, trusting in their works, is by the perceiving of his own words finally brought ●nto/ and every mischief that he layeth against the known catholic church, each after other fall in his own neck/ wher● that faggot lieth so surely bounden on his shoulders that as long as he liveth with all the shifts he can find, he shall never well shake it of.   

Faith is ever a●●a●ted and fought withal.  Tyndale. 
Moreover this faith which we have in Chryst●, is ●●er fought against, ever assailed and bete● at with desperation/ not when we sin only, but also in all temptacyo●s of adversity, in to which god bringeth us, to now●t●e us and to show us our 〈◊〉 hearts, the hypocrisy and false thoughts that here lyehydd●/ our almost no fayte at all and as little love, even then happily when we thought ourselves most perfect of all. For when temptations come, we can not stand. When we have sinned, faith is feeble. When wrong is done us, we can not forgive. In sickness, in loss of goods, and in all tribulations we be impatient. When our neighbour needeth our help that we must depart with him of ours, than love is cold. And thus we learn and feel that there is no goodness nor yet power to do good, but of god only. And in all such temptations our faith preyshed not utterly, neither our love and consent unto the l●w● of god/ but they be weak●, lykke, and wounded, and not clean deed.  More. 
This chapter hath Tyndale put in for no great effect, but only with a comely florysshe, to set out and furnish his heresies of the chapter next before. wherein he teacheth that in the true membres of his elect church, the faith doth never fail but ever continueth, and that therefore they do never sin deadly, how horrible deeds so ever they do as he confesseth that they do many/ & yet sin never deadly, because they do them not of malice nor of purpose, but of frailty only & of weakness, through the fruit of the sin that remaineth in their flesh, & breaketh out of their silly week and frail members.  
Now for the fe●ther ga●nysshy●ge of this his horrible heresy, hath he brought in this chapter/ in which he neither proveth any thing thereof, nor any thing go●h ab●u● to prove/ but only falleth to preaching, and telleth us f●ll holily that the faith is ever fought ●n against, as though no man had ever heard that before. where as every child well woteth, that the faith is always assaulted & fought against, whither he speak of his own false faith and heresies, or of the true catholic ●●yth of Chryst. For like as the true catholic faith is & ever hath been oppungned and assaulted, by the devil and all his disciples such heretics as Tyndale is, from the beginning unto this present time: so hath ever his false faith and heresies been impugned, assailed, and condemned, by god and all his prophets, by christ and all his apostles, and all his holy doctors and saints, and by all the hole corpse of Christendom from the beginning hitherto. And this conflict and battle shall never cease, till christ shall finally reform the world and finish it, and deliver the kingdom to the father. 
1. Corinth. 15.   
And as for every man's faith privately/ who knoweth not though Tyndale tell us not, that the devil daily laboureth to quench it, as he laboureth to destroy hope and charity and all other virtues.  
Nor this we need not to learn of Tyndale/ neither that men by temptations learn to find and feel, that there is no goodness ne yet power to do good, but of god only/ if Tyndale mean that as the troth is, that all goodness cometh of god, & that man hath none nor none could have, neither man nor angel but by god●e● gift/ nor could have yet any power to do good, if god would withdraw his grace. How be it if he mean in this place as he saith with his master Marten in many places, that m●n hath no power by the freedom of his will to do any good, in working himself with god's grace, and in resisting of temptation to, and working with god in the ke●ynge of himself from sin/ but must needs in all such things sit still himself astonied & amazed in a reckless s●outh, and let god work alone: then say I that Tyndals holy sermon is very damnable heresy.  
Now where that in all the synnies that he rehearseth, he saith that our faith perisheth not utterly, nor our love & consent unto the law of god/ but that they be week, sick, and wounded, and not clean deed: I say that his tale is to little purpose. For if by faith he mean the belief/ then is it not of nece●syte lost at all in no deadly sin except heresy. For the right belief and other deadly sins may stand together well enough. For a man may believe truly and do falsely, believe right and live wrong, believe well and be nought.  
And yet may he be an elect person and fall from the true faith, that is to say the true belief, and lose it utterly believing lies and heresies/ and fall from grace for the time, and yet after that with help of gra●e find the faith and fall thereto again, and finally die therein.  
And if Tyndale here by the name of faith, understand hope and trust in god, as he iugleth continually with that word/ for such equyvocacyons and divers understandings of one word, serve him for his goblets, his galleys, and his juggling stick in all the proper points of his hole conveyance and his lygier de main/ but as I said, if by faith he mean hope: I grant that it dieth not alway with the sin, nor goeth not therewith away. But it waxeth by Tyndals' doctrine oftentimes over great. For by the dreadless trust of their teaching, the man falleth into boldness of sin. In which when he hath ferelesse long continued/ he waxeth forceless and careless, and setteth not by sin, till suddenly the devil out of his high heart & haught courage striketh him into cowardouse dread and utter desperation. For the outrageous increase of their hope, is no very right hope, though it be a greater hope than it should be/ no more than the heat of a fever is a right natural heat, though the body be more hot than it was in health. And therefore in such affections the soul sometime falleth from one contrary quality in to another/ as the body in an ague changeth from cold to heat, and from heat some time into cold again. Of which manner of changes of the soul, whom the devil driveth out of one vice into his contrary/ may be well verified these words of holy scripture, They shall from cold water of the snow, go into far passing heat. 
job. 24.  And yet I say that with these sins, a true member may lose all hope and fall in despair/ and after by grace come unto hope again.  
Now where he saith that love and co●sen● to the law of god, is not lost by a true member of the elect church: I wot not whither Tyndals love remain or no/ but I am sure that by sin christian charity goth away. For neither charity nor grace can stand together with sin. For as saint Poule saith, 
2. Corinth. 6.  what fellowship can there be between light and darkness, between Chryst and belial.  
I say also that all his gay goodly tale that he telleth us here, of his elect membres with their holy feeling faith/ to whom he would approper some special privilege of keeping still faith, hope, & charity, with all their heavy heap of horrible devilish deeds/ I say that as farforth as in his words is any truth, his privilege is not proper to the membres of his elect church, but common to the very final elects, & to the final reprobaties to. For both the tone and the t'other may sin and repent, and amend and sin again, and amend again of●er then Tyndale hath fingers on his hands and toes on his feet to. But he that finally repenteth his synnies in a right fashion, is an elect foreseen to god from the beginning. And he that finally dieth impenytent, as divers wedded freres die in their lechery/ or he that after Tyndals' doctrine repenteth without care of shrift, & dieth in a falls heresy against his holy housel: such folks be finally reprobates, fore known unto god before the world was wrought, that they would finally for impenytence fall utterly to nought.  
And the other part of his tale, which can not be verified in the reprobaties, that is to wit the keeping of charity still in the doing of horrible deeds, can not be verified in the elects neither. And so is his tale on every side foolish, false, and nought. For the seemly setting forth whereof to make it appear fair and likely/ because he can neither bring reason, scripture, nor other good authority: ye shall now see what ensample he bringeth forth.  Tyndale. 
As a good child whom the father and mother h●●e t●●ght nurture a●d wisdom, loveth his father and all his commandments/ and perceiveth of the goodness showed him that his father loveth him, and that all his father's precepts are unto his wealth and profit, and that his father commandeth him nothing for any need that his father hath thereof, but seeketh his profit only/ and therefore hath a good faith unto all his father's promises, ●●d loveth all his commandments, and doth them with good will, and with good will goeth to school. And by the way happily he seeth company play/ and with the sight is taken ●●d ravished of his memory, and forgetteth himself, and standeth and beholdeth and falleth to play also, forgetting father and mother, all their kindness, all their laws, and his own profit thereto. How be it the knowledge of his father's kindness, the faith of his promises, and the lo●e that he hath again unto his father and the obedient mind, are not utterly quenched but lie hid, as all things do when a man sleepeth or lieth in a trance. And as soon as he hath played out all his lusts, or be warned in the mean season/ he cometh again unto his old profession. Never the later many temptations go over his heart, and the law as a right hangman tormenteth his conscye●ce, a●d goeth nigh to persuade him that his father will cast him away and hang him if he retche him, so that he is like a great while to r●●ne away, rather than to return unto his father again/ fear and dread of rebuke, and of los●e of his father's love, and of punishment, wrestle with the trust which he hath in his father's goodness, and as it were give his faith afall/ but it riseth again as soon as the rage of the first brunt is past, and his mind more quiet. And the goodness of his father and his old kindness cometh unto remembrance, either of his own courage or by the comfort of some other. And he believeth that his father will not cast him away or destroy him, and hopeth that he will no more do so. And upon that he getteth him home dismayed, but not all together faithless. The old kindness will not let him despair. How be it all the world can not set his heart at rest until the pain be paste, and until he have heard the voice of his father that all is forgiven.  More. 
I neither have yet ever heard nor never look to here, any very wise word in all Tyndales works. But yet heard I never a more peevish process then this his holy preaching is/ nor therewith more pestilently perilous, while he pretendeth to make this chapter of faith, and then iugleth it in to trust and hope/ and yet would make us believe, that neither nother at any time faileth any man that once hath gotten them/ nor that any man which once hath the faith that himself describeth, & thereby is once a true member of his elect church (as every man is by his dotrine y● ones attaineth that faith) can at any time after lose it nor fall away there from, & for that cause can never do deadly sin, though he do never so many damnable deeds, or (to call them as himself calleth them) horrible deeds. For as for damnable, happily Tyndale will say they be not be they never so horrible, because the seed of god, that is to wit their feeling faith, can never suffer such tre●e membres of his elect church, do those horrible deeds willingly or of purpose, but only for weakness and frailty/ for which they can be saith he no deadly sins in those blessed bodies, be the deeds never so devilish.  
And now to prove us this wonderful strange paradox, this opinion inopinable, to be very plain, open, evident, and clear/ he furnyssheth it with samples so feeble and so dim, that the faint sight of our sore eyes can scant attain to perceive, how the samples any thing touch the matter.  
For where he should to make us clearly behold it, put his ensemples in great and horrible deeds, such as himself before in another chapter confesseth that his holy membres do: he forgetteth here now such horrible deeds as would make the readers abhor the doers of them, and speaketh fair & easily that they be feeble sometime in temptation, and than they can not stand/ and that after they have sinned their faith is faint, and when they should help their neighbour their love is cold, and they be not patient in tribulations, and when they suffer wrong they can not forgive lo, and when men take away their goods they be angry, so they be lo.  
Lo how angry Tyndale is with his true membres of his elect church, and how sore he layeth their sins to their charge. And yet because we should take their faults for much the sleyghter, he minisheth all the matter and maketh it much the less, by resembling and lykening them to a good little child, as though their fawtes were all but chyldyshnes/ and as it were a babe that weepeth and waxeth angry with the kyghte, for catching away his breed and butter, and would complain to his mother, and bid her go take a rod and beat the kyght.  
But sith that Tyndale now goth about to play the the master, and set all the catholic church again to school/ and would have us learn such hard lessons as we never heard of the like/ as that men may commonly do mischievous deeds without any deadly sin, because they do them not willingly where no body compelleth them: let him at the lest wise sith he will make us all young children, teach us our lesson as a good master teacheth his young children. And let him not teach us our lesson in a small ragged hand, wherein a young beginner can scant perceive one letter from an other/ but let him teach us in a fair great letter of some text hand, that is more easy to learn upon. And therefore we shall pray him to let pass over for this once his long chyldysshe ensample of his good child, which for all the nurture of his father and his mother, and all the wisdom that he learned of them, and all his love to them and to their commandments, and all the trust in his father's promises, for which he goth with good will to school/ finding yet by the way some companions that fall to play, is ra●ysshed of his remembrance/ and forgetting father and mother, and all their promises, & all their kindness, & all their laws, & all the wisdoms that he learned of them, and all the nurtur turtur that they taught him, standeth still and looketh on them/ and after falleth to work with them at some such pretty plays of likelihood as children be wont to play, as chyrystone marry bone, bokyll pit, spurn point, cobnutte or quayting: let us leave I say this good child at his game, till he be fet either home with his father, or to school with his master with three stripes for his tarrying and trewaunting by the way (which is more meet for such a child, then after his lusts played out, Tyndals' tragical process of remembrance of his old profession, with temptations over his heart, and the law his right hang man, turmenting of conscience, fere of destruction and almost desperate dread of hanging) Now let Tyndale therefore in stead of this child, take for ensample some of the true members of his own elect church, that hath the feeling faith of his own false heresies/ and not a little child, but a great sloven slouche, that out of his boy's age is twenty winter stepped into his knaves age. Then let Tyndale put in him for ensample not as he doth here, the being angry with them that doth him wrong, or lack of due love to the liberal help of his neighbours need (with which mind and soft ensampler of infyrmyte● feebleness, imperfection, and frailty, Tyndale covereth and keepeth a side the hateful hearing and beholding of their abominable deeds) but let him put for ensample that his true member this Jack slouch that we speak of, is so frail and so feeble in temptations, that thorough the fruit of the sin remaining in his flesh, and as Tyndale saith breaking out at his membres/ he falleth into horrible deeds (for that is Tyndals' word) as into adultery with his mother, poisoning his father, and murdering his brother, in sacrilege, and incest as frere Luther doth with his nun, fall to mocking of almighty god as Tyndale doth in the blessed sacrament.  
Now sith we have for ensample taken no little pretty sins, but great and horrible deeds/ and have also taken for ensample no little pretty boy, but an old great knave fit and meet for the matter, as in whom may well and conveniently be verified all Tyndals tragical terms of temptations and tormentry, destruction, hangman, and gallows, & all together: let us in this abominable best now, and in these horrible crimes, as in a great text hand, look upon our lesson that master Tyndale teacheth us, & see whither there be written therein the thing that he would have us learn/ or whither that (sith we have now such a book with so great large letters, as we can spell upon and do together or self) it shall peradventure appear that he went about before with a small ragged hand, to beguile us and make us read false.  
ye remember good readers that he saith, that his true membres upon great occasions, as upon the sight of such things as delighteth them, be ravished of their memory, and forget themself (as his little good child doth at the sight of the play) and so continueth still in the following and fulfilling of his lust, as it were a man in his sleep or one that lay in a trance/ and neither is his faith lost in all that while, nor his love to the law of god/ but though they lie hid, yet they continue still both twain, and his hope and his trust in god also. And therefore though our Jack slouche do all those horrible deeds that we did put for ensample: yet being a true member of Tyndals elect church, because of his feeling faith which so lieth hid in his heart that he feeleth no thing thereof/ he consenteth not in his mind to none of those deeds, nor doth none of them willingly nor of purpose, or at the lest wise not maliciously (for that word into his old tale putteth Tyndale of new in his false exposition upon the first pistle of saint Iohn) and therefore in him there can none of all those horrible deeds be damnable or deadly sin.  
we might here let Jack slouche alone/ & ask Tyndale whither another slouche of his acquaintance his own master Marten Luther, not only a true member but also one of the chief membres of his elect church, hath lain all this while a sleep by the space of so many years together, sith he first ran out of his order in apostasy, and after wedded his nun, & yet continueth with her still. This frere and his nun, drank well of likelihood ere they went to their bride bed, if they lie still and sleep yet.  
But for as much as Tyndale will not agree, that frere Luther's lechery with his nun, is any evil deed at all, but very well done & virtuously: therefore though we need none other ensample against his frantyke heresy to the ears of any good christian man, yet for Tyndale himself we must leave Luther dying still a sleep with his leman, and return again to Jack slouche/ whose deeds Tyndale will grant and agree to be horrible, though he deny them to be damnable because of jakkes feeling faith/ which though he feel it not because he lieth a sleep, keepeth in him still yet the love to god's law, and suffereth him not to consent unto the sin, nor to do any such deeds willingly nor of purpose, or at the lest wise not maliciously.  
Let every man here against Tyndals' foolish tale and shameless invention, take testimony and witness of his own wit/ whither he that by the devils entycement defowleth his mother, poyseneth his father, and mordereth his brother, and mocketh almighty god, and such other horrible and abominable deeds oftentimes, doth delyberately with long device and study bystowed about it, do this gear willingly and consent there unto/ or else doth all unwyllyngly, as he were a sleep or in a trance. Let Tyndale tell us what he will/ he shall I ween find no wise man in this point agree, that these beasts do their detestable deeds unwillingly, without consent unto sin.  
Now touching Tyndals other goodly refuge, that the horrible deeds of his true membres of his elect church be never deadly sins, because they do them never of no malice: this is be ye sure a very comely device, which every wise man ye wot well must needs allow and commend. For in our ensample of Jack slouche/ what indifferent judge would not hold the good man excused of all those abominable deeds, if it might appear to the court, that the defoiling of his mother was not for any dyspyght or malice borne to his father, but of unnatural affection and very bestely lust. And also that the poisoning of his father, grew not of anger or evil will to his person, but of love and longing for his substance/ and such other excusys like, for all his other detestable crimes, whereupon it might appear, that none of them all rose of anger or evil will/ but some of pride, some of covetise, some of lechery, or such other rybaldouse appetite. what could his judge in such case say to him for very pity, if the poor man said once he were sorry/ but struck his head, and bid him go home, and be a good son, and do so no more. And therefore for as much as the same Jack slouche doth none of those detestable deeds of pure malice to any other body, but of some kind of affection toward himself, his love is not utterly quenched/ and therefore he is one of tyndal's elects, that sinneth never how bad so ever he be.  
For where as finally Tyndale teacheth us, that his true membres of his elect church do never sin deadly, because that after the luskes have played out all their lusts, than they repent again and remember themself & their father's former kindness, and be sorry: this is a fair tale of a tub told us of his elects. For every man well woteth that thus do the final reprobates, and be by due repentance divers times in their lives restored again to the state of grace. And then by this tale of Tyndale, were there no deed damnable nor deadly sin in any man, were it never so abominable/ but only those last sins in which he died impenitent. And then were all Tyndals high descriptions and differences of elects and reprobates all brought to this point at the last, that their deeds be all one, and their fashions and their faiths and their Louis to the law of god a like changeable thorough the remanant of their lives, saving that the tone sort die repentant, and the other sort impenitent. And this is the same thing that we say. And so is Tyndale after all his long foolish variance, at last maugry his teeth against his purpose, compelled to say the same that we have all way said and he alway denied.  
But then say we one thing further, that where as the elects be by his own agreement the penitents only and the true repentauntes: neither himself which repenteth not his abominable heresies, but stuburnly standeth by them and saith he will die in them/ nor his master Marten Luther, which notwithstanding that the lusk hath often times played out his lust, will not yet leave his lechery, but lie still with the nun, and defend for lawful matrimony their filthy life that is afore god and all good men a very bestely bichery/ show themselves clearly to be any of the true penytentes/ but utterly to be such, as but if they repent better ere they die, shall else be none of gods final elects, but very wretched reprobates accursed out of god's company, and miserable membres of the devils dampened church in hell.  
yet saith Tindale further in the end of all this chapter, that all be it the old kindness of the father can not let the good child utterly despair, for all that he hath played at spurn point by the way in going at scolewarde: yet all the world can not set his heart at rest, until the pain be past, and until he have heard the voice of his father that all is forgiven.  
These words would I have Tyndale apply me well to his ghostly purpose/ and turning the sample of his good child into some old shrew, and the playing at spurn point into some detestable deed: let Tyndale then tell us, where, what voice, and by whom, his true member of his elect church shall here that voice of remission. If he mean any word spoken in scripture all ready/ then is he soon sped, and shall not after his sinful crime committed, fall at any great conflict in himself between hope and despair, his faith almost catching a fall for fere, and at last with myth work rising again. All this gear is soon done, if the voice of his father granting remission set his heart at rest, and that voice be his word written in scripture/ for than he heard the word before he did the deed. And that word being such/ if it were understanden as Tyndale teacheth, that forthwith at the bare repenting without shrift or penance, all were forgiven, sin, pain, and all, both eternal and temporal, both in hell and purgatory and in this world to: that word were than I say all ready bifore the deed, not a forgiveness only of the sin passed, but a licence almost also of all horrible deeds to be done. And if he mean to here the voice of his father afterward, not written before/ he must hear it by the mouth of his ghostly father upon his humble shrift and confession, which Tyndall calleth the craft and invention of Satan.  
And this is lo the conclusion of Tyndall in this his chapiter, of his false faith ever assawted/ which is as ye see now taken here with assault, pecemele on every side wounded, spoiled, and bounden/ and quick of feeling as any blain or botch, but utterly deed of grace sent down unto the devil.  Tyndale. The manner and order of our election. 
EVyn so goth it with gods elects. God chooseth them first, and they not god, as thou readest Iohn. 15 And then he sendeth forth and calleth them, and showeth them his good will which he beareth unto them, and maketh them see both their own damnation in the law, and also the mercy that is laid up for them in Christ's blood, and thereto what he will have them do. And then when we see his mercy, we love him again, and chose him, and submit ourselves unto his laws to walk in them. For when we err not in wit, reason, and judgement of things, we can not err in will and choice of things. The choice of a man's will doth naturally and of her own accord, follow the judgement of a man's reason, whether he judge right or wrong. So that in teaching, only resteth the pith of a man's living.  More. 
THis chapter dependeth upon the chapter before, in which he compared his true membres of his elect church unto his good child, whom his father taught nurter and wisdom, and sent him to school, & he like a micher & a trewaunt played at bokle pit by the way/ & when the game was done, fell almost in despair of life for fere of hanging, if his father caught him/ and yet soon after well and wisely ●●cō●orted himself, with the remembrance of his father's old goodness/ and so came home again like a good little boy, & heard his father's voice of forgeuen●sse/ which set his heart at rest/ & than he went to supper merrily/ & than the mayed put on his byggen & brought him to bed/ and than he cared for no more, but was merry in the morning, and ready to go play the boy again as he did before. And now thereto Tyndale joineth this chapter/ saying, Even 〈◊〉 it w●th gods elect.  
yet sith he resembleth gods elect unto the little boy/ he should have put into the sample of his little child, that his little child sometime when he hath played the little young trewaunt, for all his remembrance of his father's goodness, is for fere of his father's anger glad to go to some other friends of his fathers, and pray them to bring him home, and help to skewse him and keep him from beating. And than he should have begun this chapter as he doth now and say, Even so goth it with god's ele●t. For if the sample of his good child may prove all the remanant for him/ than may it prove this one piece as well for us, that the elect after his offence, seeketh unto saints as his father's fr●des, and prayeth them to help to entreat for him/ for so do many times such good children ye wot well as Tyndale putteth his sample by.  
But we will nat now for this time trouble Tyndale moche with that matter. I would that in this chapter all were well save y●. Forsu●ely this chapter is very nought/ and hath in it the secret seed of Tyndales chief poison, whereby he laboureth after Luther, under colour & pretext of god's election, to destroy the free will of man, & ascribe all thing to destiny. which thing is natte in it self so false/ but Tyndale proveth it as foolishly, as ye shall perceive anon.  
But first consider how darkly the man walketh in his way still. For yet he handleth it of that fashion, that he would nat we should see, whither he mean by this● word elect, the man that is elect for the time, after the manner of any of those elections that I declared you before in the beginning of my fourth book/ or whither he mean of those elects that are of god before the beginning of the world foreseen, to be such as by his gift and grace and good will working therewith, in folk of age and wit thereto, should and would die in the state of grace and be saved, and therefore be called some time small elects, sometime eternal.  
Thus which kind of elects himself meaneth, Tyndale leaveth undeclared/ & will we shall guess at his mind upon his uncertain words, to the end that he might ever have some refuge into a starting hole/ and when he were plainly confuted and reproved, cry out upon me than and say that I miss take him.  
But I am content to take him therefore, that way that may● be the strongest for himself/ and that way that his words gathered out of divers of his chapters, some before and some here after, show most likely that he should mean, when they be considered together. And that is as me seemeth, that he meaneth of those elects that are called the final and eternal elects/ all be it that the place of scripture in the xu chapter of saint Iohn which Tyndale allegeth here for his elects, little maneths for his purpose concerning that final or eternal election/ nat only because the words of christ spoken there to his apostles, can nat conveniently serve for those with ●wa●●● from the true doctrine of Christ's catholic church that the apostles taught, into false heresies/ but also for that our saviour in those words when he said unto them, you have nat chosen me but I have chosen you, and appointed you that you shall go forth and bring fruit, and your fruit shall abide/ he spoke there not of there small election to salvation/ which election himself foresaw in his godhead before the world was made, and which election therefore is called eternal. But he spoke there of that election only, by which he chose and elected them to be his apostles and messengers, to be sent about the world to preach his gospel/ as plainly appeareth by those aforesaid words, I have chosen you, & appointed you to go and bring in fruit/ and finally is the same election, whereof he spoke when he said, 
johan. 6  Have I nat elected and chosen you twelve, & lo one of you is a devil. And therefore as I say, the man layeth the scripture very far from his matter.  
But now taking him as he would say if his wit would serve him, that is to wit that by his word elects, he meaneth the final and eternal elects: let us see and consider what high doctrine and before unherde, master tindal teacheth us of them.  
He sayeth that after that god hath chosen them (and telleth nat when/ whither after their coming into the world, or before the world were made/ so that he leaveth it by those words yet in doubt which election he moveth, whether unto salvation in the church tryumphaunte in heaven, or only in to the church here milytaunte in earth) god he sayeth sendeth forth and calleth upon them, and showeth them his good will which he beareth unto them.  
Now here falleth Tyndall in two faults. One is that these words of his can nat be verified upon all elects, sith many die in their cradles, and many in their crysosomes'/ but if he taken all those for none elects, because they can understand no preaching. Another fault is, y● the thing which he seemeth here to approper unto the elects, be common both to the elects and reprobates. For all this god doth to them to, that are nat his elects, but unto such also as will be & therefore shallbe, final reprobates. For god of his goodness willing as the scripture saith all men to be saved/ sent his son in to this world, to call upon the whole world. And he sent his apostles about the world as a lord and god indifferent, without acception of persons as said saint Peter.  
But than goeth Tyndall farther and saith, that god maketh his elects see both their own damnation in the law, and also the mercy that is laid up for them in Christ's blood, and thereto what he will have them do.  
These words men would ween were but well & plainly meant. For they may seem to good plain meaning men, to be well & plainly spoken, and as well and plainly meant. But yet as ye shall shortly see in these words, that god maketh his elects see his mercy/ as plain words as they be, and as innocent and as simple as they seem, yet in them meaneth Tyndale covertly to come forth with his poison of false preaching the predestination of god, with destruction of the free will of man concerning any manner of devour of themself toward the ●eleue and faith. For he ●●neth here, that god always maketh the elects to see these things, without any will of their own any thing working with god toward the sight thereof/ and that all the reprobates that shallbe dampened for lack of the believe, be reprobated and rejected and left unchosen, and kept from the sight and perceiving of the things to be believed, without any demeryte or evil desert of their own, only because god list nat to make them see.  
And that Tyndale thus falsely meaneth by those fair plain words/ ye shall farther perceive by other words of Tyndals own writing, afterward in his answer to to the first chapter of the third book of my dialogue. For where as I there showed, that the very books of the scripture if self, can nat make men believe that scripture, nor very surely know which were the very true scripture of god, and which were scriptures countr●fete, saving that the catholic church teacheth us to know the scripture/ and the spirit of god, with man's own towards and good endeavour, worketh in man the credulite and belief by which we both believe the church in teaching us which is the scripture, & also by which we believe the things that are written in the scripture: to this because I said there, that when we here the scripture or read it, if we be nat rebellious but ende●our ourself to believe, & captive and subdue our understanding to serve and follow faith, praying for gods gracious aid and help, god than worketh with us, and inwardly doth incline our heart in to the assent of the thing that we read/ and after a little spark of our faith o●es had, increaseth the credence in our incredilyte: Tyndale to this in mockage of men's endeavour toward the belief, and in scorning that we would captive our understanding into the service of faith, answereth me with an 〈◊〉 as exclamation/ and crying out upon my fleshe●●●es and folly, ●o●eth out his high spiritual sentence in this 〈◊〉 o●.  Tyndale. 
O ho●e betlebly●de is fleshly reason. The will hath none operation at all 〈◊〉 the working of faith in my soul, no more 〈◊〉 the child hath in the begetting of his father. 〈◊〉 (sayeth Paul) it is the gift of god and not of us. My 〈…〉 show ●e 〈…〉 or an appatent cause why, yer my will have any working at all●  More. 
Now perceive you good christian readers, what an unchristen mind this evil christian man hath in those words, that seem so fair and plain in this present chapter. For though he speak nat out so plainly in this chapter, as he doth after in his answer to my third book as ye have here heard: yet that he falsely meaneth in either place alike, ye may yet more plainly perceive by his words that in this chapter immediately follow/ which are such sa may be as well joined to his foresaid words of his answer unto my third book, as to the words unto which they be knit in this present chapter. In which when he hath said that god maketh his elects see their damnation in the law, and also the mercy that is laid up for them in Christ's blood, and thereto what he will have them do/ it followeth than forthwith,  Tyndale. 
And then when we see his mercy, we love him again, and chose him, and submit ourselves unto his laws to walk in them. For when we err not in wit, reason, and judgement/ we can not err in will and choice of things. The choice of man's will doth naturally and of her own accord, follow the judgement of a man's reason, whither he judge right or wrong, so that in teaching only resteth the pith of a man's living.  More. 
Now trust I good readers, that it is enough that we perceive and see, what Tyndale intendeth in this chapiter of the order of our election/ and that for all his great exclamation, we be nat yet so betle blind, but that we spy well enough which way this wily serpent walketh/ and that he goth about under colour of the praise and commendation of god's predestinacion● and ordinance utterly concerning faith, to put a way the work of man's fire will/ and yet over that though ●om what more covertly, of truth concerning all other good works to.  
And all be it that he seem here to give man's will in manner like place, in the act of our love toward god, as he giveth god in the work of our belief and faith in us: yet when he is well perceived, he bringeth all to such inevitable necessity, that both in the tone and the t'other, and in all manner of good works, he taketh utterly away all manes of merit from the good men and elects/ & giveth unto the evil people and reprobaties an excuse for themself, and an occasion to lay the wight of there just damnation, to the vniusty●e of gods eternal ordinance and most righteous predestination. And yet are all his reasons in this great matter so small, that a man may nat well wit whither they be more wicked or more wyttelesse.  
Now all be it that I shall purpose to treat of this matter more at long with Tyndale, when I shall come to the connfutation of his fond answers made unto the third & fourth books of my dialogue: yet can I nat presently forbear some what to show you of his abominable error in this point. And yet in good faith me seemeth no very great need/ his follies after his words of both the places brought forth and laid together, be now so plain and evident of themself.  
For who is so betle blind, that seeth nat clearly the dark devilish heresy of this high spiritual heretic, that saith it is a beetle blind fleshly reason, to think that the good endeavour of the man's part in willingly conforming himself toward the faith, and captyving and subduing his reason and understanding in to the obsequy and obedient service of belief, should be no manner help nor furtherance toward the getting of any krysten faith but that the will hath none operation at all in the working of faith in man's soul, no more than the child hath in the bygetting of his father. For here ye see well that we speak of such as are of age and have the use of reason.  
If man's will had no more part toward the attaining of the belief, than the child hath in the bygetting of his own father/ I see nat wherefore our saviour should call upon the people and bid them do penance, and believe the gospel, 
Marce. 1.  as he doth in the first chapter of saint Mark.  
For though it be very true, that without god's help and god's grace preventing and foregoing, no man can believe: yet if there were nothing in the man himself, whereby he might receive it if he would with grace which god of his goodness offereth apply himself towardely to the receiving thereof, & whereby on the other side he might frowardly refuse it, or of sloth and negligence so slightly regard it that he were worthy to lose it: if there were I say no such thing in the man whenby he himself might some what do therein with god, our lord would nat call upon men, and exhort them to believe, and praise them that will believe, and rebuke them that will nat believe, as he doth in many plain places of the scripture.  
But now against god and his holy scriptures, it is a world to see what slender things Tyndale allegeth. first he saith that it is a beetle blind fleshly folly, to reckon that the good endeavour of man should be any thing worth toward the attaining of faith, because that ●aythe is the gift of god. Is nat here an high reason? who denieth that faith is a gift of god. But what letteth that, that a man may nat by his towardness, endeavour himself to receive the gift of god by god's goodness freely offered unto him/ or by his forwardness slougth or negligence, lose and forego the gift of god. Is it any thing against the nature of gift, to be as willingly received and taken as it is offered and given? If a man would give Tyndale a cup of gold/ would Tyndale call it no gift, if himself did with good will put forth his hand to take it. Doth the willing byhavyour of the taker, change the name and the nature of the gift, or any thing mynyshe the free liberal mind of the giver. In good faith I must needs confess myself so betle blind, that I can see no reason at all neither fleshly nor ghostly in this reason of Tyndale/ nor as I ween Tyndals own sharp eagle yien neither.  
what good thing is there that is nat the gift of god? hoop, charity, coutynence, pity, learning, wisdom, or any thing in this world that aught is. For as sayeth saint james, every good perfit gift is from above descending from the father of lights. 
jacobi. 1.  And saint Poule saith, 
1. C●rm●●. 4.  what haste thou that thou haste nat received? And of whom meant he all thing received, but of god's gift. Now shall every man than in Tyndals' high spiritual judgement, be taken for fleshly and beetleblind, that will be so foolish to put any endeavour of his own to labour and work with god, in the getting of hope or charity, pitiful affection or chastity, learning, justice, wisdom, or any other good thing. Because they be all gifts of god, a man must therefore sit even still and do nothing toward it, till god come and give him all thing unware. For if he may beware before/ than must he by Tyndal, do nat so m●che as be willing to receive it. For he that by his will receiveth it, and which should else for his frowardness and contrary will go without it: he doth ye wot well somewhat more in getting thereof, than doth the son in the begetting of his own father/ wherein the sons will that is yet vnb●goten, can nothing make nor mar. where as in the getting, attaynyng●, and receiving of these virtues/ the will of the man conformable & toward, worketh with god ●●d doth somewhat/ not as a deed vesel, where into Tyndale putteth and poureth his bear/ but as a quick instrument as the hand of the man that wittingly and willingly receiveth a gift of another man's liberal offer.  
Now if Tyndale would here labour to make us beetleblind with his blunt soteltees, and tell us that we can do thing till god prevent us wyt● his grace nor nothing but as his grace goth on forth with us: these tales when they be all told, be n●● worth a whistle. For ye may tell him again, that we say not that man's endeavour can any good do without god. But we say that when men endeavour them sel●e toward so good a thing/ they may then make themself sure, that god hath prevented them with his grace, for else they could not so do/ and that he is ready with his grace to walk forward with them. And sith their endeavour ●owarde good is good: therefore if they will still perceiver and walk on still with god, he will walk on still with them. And their endeavour shall not be a void foolish thing as Tyndale calleth it/ but a fruitful work toward the attaining of faith, though Tyndale would say nay thereto.  
I would also very fain wit of Tyndale/ if himself were as farm and as fast in the true christian faith, as he is in his heresies/ and then should happen to fall in company with either paynim, Turk, Saracen, or jew, & would exhort them to the christian faith/ and that all be it they granted him the belief of one almighty god, yet for aught that he said unto them, he found them far of from the belief (not only of the sacrament of the awlter, from which himself is now as far of as any of them) but also far of from the belief of the son & holy ghost, and finally from the taking of our scriptures for holy or for writings worthy credence: what advice and counsel would Tyndale give them? would he not advise and counsel them to pray unto god, and to call aid of him, that it might please him to help to lead them in the way of the right belief/ and that he would with his grace help them to incline their hearts in to the following of that thing, that should be unto his pleasure and the salvation of their own souls/ which kind & prayer they might assent unto without any prejudice of their own faith. would he not also counsel them to fast and forbear women, to the intent their prayer might be the more clean and pure/ and advise them also to give good almose for god's sake, as did Cornelius whom saint Peter was sent unto him therefore. would he not also counsel them to be not wilful nor obstinate, but conformable and willing to here and learn the troth and upon the hearing thereof gladly to prente in their hearts those things that most make toward the moving and inclination of their minds, toward the credence thereof. And would he not tell them that thorough such toward and willing demeanour on their part (in the doing whereof, themself not lacking nor being slothful, god would not fail to prevent them with his grace, help, & favour, and be before them) god would lead them and go forth with them, & never leave them nor forsake them, till he would with their own good endeavour walking and working with him, bring them first into the right belief and good hope and godly charity, with other many virtuous and good wurkes proceeding thereupon/ & finally by that mean, after this transitory life, into the perpetual bless & eternal joys of heaven.  
whither would Tyndale advise them thus? which if he did/ then should he teach them that man's endeavour toward faith, is not a thing to be mocked as himself mocketh it now/ but that man's own will doth somewhat more toward it, then doth the child to the bygetting of his own father. Or else would Tyndale forbid them all such things in any wise, & tell them that their own endeavour would rather hinder, and make them ascribe the faith that is the gift of god unto the merit & goodness of their own will, their own towardness, their own prayers, their own continence, almose deed, & fasting, and all their other endeavour. All which things if Tyndale take for nought or perilous/ then is it likely that he would of consequence advice those disciples of his to be well aware of all such things, & do none of them in no wise, for the counsel to such things could come but of beetle blind fleshly reason. And therefore Tyndales disciples, toward the getting of the faith, to the intent they should take thereof no part unto their own praise, but give the hole glory to god/ should I say by his advise use none endeavour at all, nor do no thing, nor say no thing, nor think no thing, but sit even still sadly, and gape by day against the son, by night against the moan, till either some blind beetle or some holy humble Bee come fly in at their mouths, and buzz in to their breasts an unwholesome heap of fly blown errors and motthe eaten heresies.  
And thus good christian readers, the reason that Tyndale maketh us against the endeavour of man toward the attaining of faith/ which endeavour he mocketh & calleth it a counsel of beetle blind reason, because faith is the gift of god: I doubt not I say but that his reason is such, that a man that were beetle blind in deed, may perceive well enough that Tyndale for lack of good endeavour, hath had of the gift of god little wit and less grace, in making of that feeble and unlawful reason.   

Tyndals' other reason against the good endeavour of man's will is this.  Tyndale. 
My wit must show me a true cause or an apparent cause why, year my will have any working at all.  More. 
Let Tyndale set his consequent and conclusion to this antecedent made of this reason, and say, My wit must first show me some cause either true or somewhat seeming true, before that my will can any thing do at all: ergo none endeavour of myself in conforming and applying of my will, can any thing do at all. And now when his argument is all made up/ ye shall find it as full of reason as an egg full of mustard.  
For what though my wit and reason must first set my will a work/ can yet my will when it is once moved diversly between two reasons, no thing do at all in removing an obstinate le●ynge to the tone side, or a conformable inclination toward the consent of the t'other.  
If all the faith of such truths as are taught, were in such wise inspired into every man's heart that is a faithful man, as he by that inward inspiration had such a full perfayt and clear perceiving thereof, in the inward sight of the understanding, as the bodily eye hath of the thing that it plainly seeth and looketh upon/ or as the sight of the soul hath in such evident and open conclusions, as it doth plainly and openly behold/ such I mean as are the general petitions in the first book of Euclidis geometry, as that every hole thing is more than his own half or such other like: then would I well agree with Tyndale, that when the thing were so shewed unto my wit, I could not but agree thereto with my will. But I say that all be it god is able in such wise to inspire and infounde the faith if that him list: yet I say that ordinarily into his faithful folk, neither final reprobates nor final elects (for faithful are at sundry times of both the sorts) he giveth not the belief or faith on that fashion. For if he did/ then were it not faith nor byly●fe, but very sight and knowledge. And such kind of so certain and open revelation, were unto the man occasion of belief and credence necessarily, surely, and inevitable/ but therefore as it seemeth, neither thankworthy nor rewardable.  
Now doth god with his christian folks ordinarily take that way in the giving them their belief and faith, that though they do not merit with any foregoing good deeds, nor deserve the gift of believing/ yet may they with good endeavour and obedient conformity, deserve and merit in the believing.  
And therefore sith god will for that cause bind us to the belief, because he will that we merit and be rewarded for our belief (the reason of which desert and merit on our part, standeth in the respect and regard that god hath to our obedience, by which we willingly submit ourselves to the credence of god's word written or unwritten, telling us any thing against our own reason telling us the contrary) then if our belief lost his merit (as that holy pope saint Gregory saith it should) if reason plainly proved us the thing that we believe: so were the merit of our belief lost in like wise, if the thing were in such wise given us as we more perfitly perceived it then we perceive any such as reason may most perfitly prove us.  
And therefore I say, that god doth nat ordinarily give into men the faith in such manner/ because he will nat utterly take away the merit fro man/ for as moche as he hath ordained him to joy by the mean of some merit, some conflict, passion, or pain upon his own part, 
Roma. 8.  though nat sufficient & worthy (for as saint Poule saith, all the passions and sufferaunces of this world, be nat worthy the glory that is to come that shallbe relieved in us) yet such at the lest wise as his high goodness accepteth and rewardeth for worthy, thorough the force and strength of those merits that are in deed sufficient & worthy/ the merits I mean of the bitter pain and passion of his alone only begotten and tenderly beloved son. Than say I now, that sith the faith is nat ordinarily with such open inevitable and invincible lyghtsomnes inspired in to the soul, that the man must of necessity and very fine force clearly perceive and agree it/ but by god provided so sufficiently to be showed & taught, as he that will be conformable and walk with god's grace, may find good cause enough to captive his reason to the belief/ and yet nat so great and urgent causes, but that he which will be ill willed and froward, may let grace go, and find himself cavellacyons proudly to test upon his own reason against the word of god/ either saying that his reason seeth it nat sufficiently proved for god's word (as Tyndale sayeth in all god's words unwritten) or else that god's word is nat so meant as all Christ's church understandeth them (as Tyndale sayeth touching the plain scriptures against the marriages made between freres & nuns) the points of the faith are nat I say in such wise showed, nor the wit in t●em so thoroughly and so clearly instructed/ but that the thing which in the wit lacketh and remaineth imperfect, may by the will be perfected and made up/ and in stead of sure and certain sight, be from distrust or doubtful opinion brought by god working with man's will into sure faith and undoubted belief. And this I say for the time of this present life/ and in the life to come, than turned into full sight and inevitable contemplation.  
And that this is the ordinary manner of the faith given by god into the soul, with the pliable and comfortable will of man/ and not an inevitable sight of the troth inspired into the man whither he will or not, in such manner wise that he can not chose but believe it/ the scriptures be plain and evident.  
Doth not saint Poule unto the Hebrews in the definition of faith, 
Hebrae. 11.  openly and clearly declare, that the faith is an argument or matter of things that appear not. Now if the resurrection of our own body were in this world in such manner appearing unto us, as it shall after the resurrection when we be in heaven/ it were now no faith at all but a sure knowledge. And therefore saith saint Poule also, that we see now as it were but in a glass, & perceive & behold but as it were in a dark riddle/ but in the other world shall we see face to face.  
To show also that god giveth not ordinarily the faith to folk, but with some manner of towardness and conformity of their own good will/ our lord saith himself unto the city that he so sore longed to convert, 
M●tth. ●●.  Jerusalem Jerusalem, how oft have I willed to gather thy children together, as an hen gathereth together her chykens, and thou wouldst not.  
No man here doubteth, but that our lord if he would have used some such ways as he could/ it was in his power to inspire the knowledge of himself into their hearts, and of all thing that he would have them believe/ and that in such wise, that they should not choose but believe, for they should not choose but know it/ & that in such wise that they could not have thought the contrary. But god had determined to bring man to salvation, not in such inevitable wise, nor without some willing conversion and turning of man toward him/ though man can not turn unto him without prevention & concurraunt help of gods especial grace. But sith the goodness of god provideth, that his grace is ever ready to him that will use it/ therefore though the will of man may no thing do with out grace, yet without any speaking of grace we commonly let not to say, man may do this, and man may do that, as believe, and hope, and love, and live chaste, & do almoise, and fast, & many such other things/ not meaning though we make no mention of grace, that man can therefore do them without grace. Like as we say that a man may see to thread a needle and speak no thing of the light, and yet mean we nat that he can thread it in the dark.  
And therefore let nat Tyndale look to bring us in darkness / and because man's will can nothing do without grace, therefore tell us that man's will can nothing do, nor tell us neither that man's will hath no part in belief and faith/ and make us ween it were so, because the will can nat as he sayeth go before the wit/ whereof experience proveth many times the contrary, and sometime with Tyndale to. But though a man can nat have any will at all in that thing whereof he hath utterly nothing known nor heard tell of, nor had imagination in his mind, nor any thing thought upon: yet when the mind with divers reasons and arguments is once moved of a matter, the will as it happeth of other occasions at the time to be well or evil affectionate, so may give itself into the consent and agreement of the tone side or of the t'other/ ye and that sometime on that side for affection, upon which side he seeth lest part of his wit and reason. And therefore it is nat alway true that Tyndale sayeth in these words,  Tyndale. 
And than when we see his mercy, we love him again, and chose him, and submit ourself to his laws to walk in them.  More. 
Here seemeth he to give as much to the working of man's will concerning charity, as he before took from it concerning faith. For here he sayeth that we chose god, and submit ourself to his laws/ where as of truth without his grace, both preventing us and concurraunt with us, we can in these things neither, do nothing at all.  
Now meaneth Tyndall ferther for all this, that man's will in these things yet doth nothing work at all but of necessity. For he sayeth the god maketh them to see his mercy by faith, without any manner working of their wills, as ye have herd. And than he sayeth that upon the sight thereof/ they love god, and chose him, and submit themself to his laws. But yet sayeth he, that their wills do this of inevitable necessity. And than can no man if Tyndals lie be true, neither in faith nor charity have any merit at all. For what can a men deserve, in believing the thing that he thoroughly seeth, or in doing a thing when he can do none other. Now that Tyndale so saith, is open and plain by these words that he consequently sayeth.  Tyndale. 
For when we err nat in wit, reason, and iu●ement/ we can nat err in will & choice of things. For the choice of man's will doth naturally and of her own accord, follow the judgement of a man's reason whether he judge right or wrong/ so that in teaching only resteth the pith of a man's living.  More. 
Here ye see that Tyndale in loving and choosing by which man loveth and chooseth god, putteth a plain necessity that man's will can none other do, because he seeth the mercy of god by faith/ which as Tyndall said before, man seeth also of necessity, and so consequently no merit in neither nother.  
But Tyndale sayeth untrue in both. For man neither of necessity seeth the tone, nor of nece●syte doth the other, but may do the contrary both in the tone and the t'other/ and therefore in doing both, meryteth in both what so ever Tyndale say.  
But yet sayeth Tindale untrue in these other two things also/ that is to wit both where he sayeth, that when a man seeth the mercy of god, than he loveth and chooseth god, and submitteth himself to walk in god's laws/ and also where he sayeth for the proof of that point, that when we err nat in wit, we can nat err in will/ but that the choice of the will doth ever follow the judgement of the reason. For first what question is there, but that many which right surely believe the mercy of god, do nat yet love god in such wise as is requisite unto salvation/ that is in the preferring his pleasure before their own, and to forbear sin for the love of his law, and for the regard of his goodness to fulfil his commandments. But we find it many times far contrary, that the over great regard of his mercy, turneth trust into presumption, and maketh men the more bold in sin/ so forsooth that neither love of god, nor desire of heaven, nor dread of hell, is able to pull them back.  
Now as touching the other point, that when we err nat in will and judgement, we can nat err in will & choice of things/ but that the will always doth naturally accord and agree to follow the judgement of reason, whether it judge right or wrong: we shall differ the sotletees of that disputation, till we come to the place in his answer unto my third and fourth book of my dialogue, where I purpose god willing, to touch this matter more full/ & will at this time nothing else object against him, than the plainest proof that can be, that is to wit every man's own experience and express perceiving of the contrary. For many a wretch that doth an abominable deed, seeth and perceiveth full well that he doth very nought, and that he should nat do so/ and his wit and his reason forbiddeth him. But his will falling from the following of his reason, to the fulfilling of his fleshly desire & beestly lust and devilish appetite, accomplisheth his detestable deed/ nat for any lack of wit and reason, but thorough fault of the froward will wittingly working for pleasure against reason.  
Many a man that hath a great wit and a great reason to, and moche learning joined unto them both, doth yet more foolishly and more unreasonably, than doth some other whose wit and reason is very far under his, and as for learning hath utterly none at all. And whereof cometh this? but in that the tone with no learning & no great wit, hath great good will to work with god's grace and do well/ and the t'other with much wit and learning, lacketh the will to work well after his reason/ & therefore letteth grace go by, and wilfully followeth affection.  
And if Tyndale in this believe nat me, nor all the wide world beside/ he will I trust at the lest wise believe himself. Now than sayeth he in more places of his book than one, that I see the truth well enough, and that I see well enough that I should nat do as he sayeth I do, wittingly and wilfully write against the truth. wherein if he will now confess that he sayeth untrue/ let him revoke his lie and call it back again, and than god forgive him and I do. And if he will abide still by that word that he said than/ than must he go fro this word quite that he sayeth now. For if I wot well I do nat well, and yet for all that I do it/ than is there one man at the lest wise whose will followeth nat his wit. And than if I be such one, I shall nat I trust live all alone/ but shall rather than fail, find Tyndale himself so good a fellow, as to falcefye his own words here and bear a poor man company.  
And that his words here be very false in deed/ doth yet farther appear by his conclusion that he concludeth thereon, if his conclusion do necessarily follow. For his conclusion is this, that in teaching only standeth the pith of a man's living. For if this be false as in deed it is/ than if it necessarily follow upon his other words, his other words must needs be as false as it/ for upon a truth nothing can there follow but truth, as every man learned well knoweth.  
But now knoweth every man very well, that all the pith of a man's living standeth nat in only teaching. For many be full well taught how they should live, ye & so well taught that they be able to teach it other full well/ & yet live themself full nought. we shall nat need to seek long for ensample, sith no man doubteth but that judas Scariothe had so good a school master, and was with him so long, that if he had any wit he was meetly well taught how he should live. And that he was nat all witless, though by default of good will ●e waxed in conclusion graceless/ appeareth well, in that so wise a master as our saviour was, sent him forth among other for one of his ushers, to teach in his own tyme. 
Matth. 1●.  And yet as well taught as he was, and as well as he taught other to/ yet was his own living not very good, while he was both a the●e and a traitor both to god and man.  
And yet that we shall nat need to seek so far as fifteen hundred year ago/ I ween it will be no great difficulty to find folk enough even now in our own time, that can preach and give good counsel to their neighbours, against the vices in which they live themself. So that though to good living, good teaching be necessary/ yet may every fool see that in good teaching, standeth nat all the pith of good living, as Tyndale sayeth it doth/ sith many men have been well taught, and yet lived nought.  
But this wise reason among many like, learned Tyndale of his master Luther/ which at worms in Almaigne at his being there before the Emperor said, that if the gospel were well taught, there should need none other law. And this said he there, & this sayeth Tyndale here/ because they and their fellows would fain take away all laws, and leave nothing but sermons. And than after that their ungracious he●esyes might be freely preached for the gospel of god, & no law to let them/ when after many souls sent unto the devil by them, they should as they have done in Almaigne all ready, begin sedition and rebellion, and fall to rifling, robbery, murder, and manslaughter/ who so should than without force of punishment only, teach and preach unto such unruly rebels, should (ye wot well) have a devout audience.  
But Tyndale in this matter when he hath told us this tale, that the pith of man's living standeth all together in teaching/ he addeth thereunto by and by & sayeth,  Tyndale. 
How be it there be swine that receive no learning but to defile it/ and there be dogs that rend all good learning with their teeth.  More. 
If there be such swine and such dogs as in deed there be, as our saviour himself witnesseth in the gospel/ if this I say be truth as it is, 
Matth. 7.  that Tyndale telleth us now/ than is it false that Tyndale told us afore, that is to wit that all standeth in teaching. For those swine & those dogs will be nought for all the good teaching. And than to keep such from doing harm, we must nat only teach and preach/ but unto such as will be like swine, we must yoke them for breaking hedges, and ring them for wroting, and have band dogs to drive them out of the corn with biting, and lead them out by the ears.  
And if there be such dogs as in deed there be, that rend all good learning with their teeth/ then standeth not all the pith of good living in good teaching. For what availeth to tech them that will not learn but rend all good learning with their teeth. And therefore to such dogs men may not only preach, but must with whips and bats bete them well, and keep them from tearing of good learning with their dogs teeth/ ye and from barking both/ and chastise them and make them couch quail, till they lie still and hearken what is said unto them. And by such means be both swine kept from doing harm, & dogs fall sometime so well to learning, that they can stand up upon their hinder feet, and hold their hands afore them prettily like a maid, ye and learn to dance to after their masters pipe/ such an effectual thing is punishment, where as bare teaching will not suffice.  
And who be now more properly such dogs, then be these heretics that bark against the blessed sacraments, and tear with their dogs teeth the catholic christen faith, and godly expositions of the old holy doctors & saints? And who be more properly such hogs, than these heretics of our days, of such a filthy kind as never came before/ which in such wise defile all holy vowed chastity, that the very pure scripture of god they tread upon with their foul dirty feet, to draw it from all honest chastity, into an unclean shameful liberty of freres to wed nuns. And therefore unto these hogs & these dogs the pith of good living standeth not all in teaching. For no good thing will they learn without biting and beating.  
yet goeth Tyndale further and showeth more kinds of folk/ to whom for all his other words all the pith of good living standeth not in teaching.  Tyndale. 
And there be popeholy/ which following a righteousness of their own feigning, resist the ryghtuones of god in christ.  More. 
These words lo good reder, expone very well & very plain declare, what teaching it is that Tyndale all this while so boasteth, wherein he sayeth all the pith of good living only standeth/ that is as he taketh it, the teaching of his abominable heresies, in which he teacheth us that only faith sufficeth, and that neither good works have reward in heaven, nor that any evil works shall have any punishment either in this world or in purgatory● no nor in hell neither, if the sinner be but a bare penitent & only believe and repent, and be well aware in any wise that he go to no shrift nor do no penance for his sin. For all those that do, they be those of whom he raileth here and calleth pope holy, & sayeth they make themself a righteousness of their own feigning/ and resist the righteousness of god in christ, because they resist Tyndals unrighteous heresies/ which under pretext of gods only mercy, taketh away god's righteousness/ and not only that, but under the same pretext of praising and setting forth a more mercy, covertly and craftily depraveth and dispraiseth the very true mercy itself, that god of his goodness ordinarily useth toward us.  
For Tindale maketh as though it were no mercy at all, after a little penance in this world done by the party for many great mortal sins/ or after a temporary pain endured in purgatory, to set the mery●es of Christ's passion for the remanant, which would else be infynytely ten hundred thousand thousand times longer. This taketh Tyndale for n● mercy, which is in deed the very mercy that our lord ordinarily useth. But this order the best blasphemeth/ and as well in this devilish work of his, as in diverse other, calleth it express tyranny.  
yet goeth he finally further to another kind of such folk, as teaching can not for a while help, and yet after doth/ and of them thus he saith.  Tyndale. 
And there be that can not attend to hearken unto the truth for rage of lusts/ which when lusts abate, come and obey well enough. And therefore a christian man must be patient, and suffer long to win his brother to Chryst, that he which attendeth not to day may here to morrow. We see some at their very latter end when cold fere of death hath quenched the heat of their appetites, learn and con●ente unto the troth/ whereunto before they could give none ●are, for the wild rages of lusts that blinded their wittꝭ●  More. 
Lo good readers here ye may see, what constance is in this man, here he saith (and saith true) that men will at some time not learn nor hearken to the troth, though it be never so well taught them. And yet in another chapter before, he showeth that the elects as soon as ever they be taught the troth, assent forthwith and will never resist/ so he that hath a false part to defend, never woteth where to hold him.  
But at the lest wise, this that he now saith is true & more to. For not only when the rage is passed then men hearken/ but also when the rage cometh again, than many fall nought again and into deadly sin/ and that of such as after wax good again and finally shallbe saved. And like wise some good faithful folk, when false shrews come, and false heretics/ do by ●alse doctrine fall fro the ●rewe faith again, though they had it before right lively. And yet of such, some turn again by grace from their deadly heresies into the life of faith/ and some be so sore nowseled in the fal●e heresies, and in their obstinate frowardness take such a devilish delight, that finally they die therein/ as did Bayfeld, Bayn●● and Tewke●b●ry. And yet in some as Tindale here telleth us, even in the very latter end when the cold fere o● death hath quenched the heat of their appetites/ god worketh with them toward the consent of the troth, whereunto before they would give none ear/ as he did in deed in that good and contrite penitent & open confessor both of his faith and his fault, M. Tho. Bylney. whiche● being once good, faithful, & virtuous, did after by the false delight of Luther's & Tyndales books, fall in to their false heresies, and held on in them thorough the delectation and vain glory that he took in the praise of that secret sect and scattered congregation/ till finally at his death god of his goodness opened his eyes/ and he looked upon himself, and considered that all those vain praysours he must go from them by fire/ and saw that if he died in those heresies he should never meet with them more but in the fire of hell where he should never fro them/ then turned he to the true faith again, and exhorted them all unto the same.  
And thus good readers ye see that of his order of election Tyndale hath in this chapter hitherto said no thing to purpose/ & now shall ye see that as little he saith to purpose in this that after followeth.  Tyndale. 
And though gods elect can not so fall that they rise not again, because that the mercy of god ever waiteth vp●n them to deliver them from evil/ as the care o● a kyn●e father waiteth upon his son, to warn him and to keep him from occasions, and to call him back again if he be gone to far: yet they forget themselves oft-times, ●nd sink down into trances; and fall a sleep in lusts for a season. But as soon as they be awaked they repent and come again without resistance.  More. 
Here maketh Tyndale as though he said a great thing. And when his words are well examined/ he both meaneth very falsely, & speaketh foolish wilily. For where he sayeth, that an elect can nat so fall, but that he shall rise again/ he meaneth that of necessity the elect must needs rise again, thorough the mercy of god that ever waiteth upon him/ which is very false.  
For all be it that of truth the elect shall arise again by mean of god's grace and mercy/ yet might he if he would lie still in sin, when gods grace and mercy calleth upon him and biddeth him rise/ as many reprobates do upon whom gods grace and mercy waiteth, and calleth as fast as he calleth upon his elects, and is as ready to help them up again as y● t'other, if they would rise, and that the malice or sloth of their own wills letted them nat to take hold of god's grace, and made them nat lie still in sin like swine.  
Now that Tyndale thus meaneth, appeareth plain by the whole process of his work. wherein as concerning salvation and damnation, he laboureth to make us ween that the will of man doth nothing willingly, but were utterly forced and inevitably necessytat by the eternal election of god unto glory and his eternal reprobation unto pain/ which is as much, as to say that the will of man is no will at all, any more than as he might say that the will of, a tre were to grow and bring forth fruit & leaves, and that the will of an axe were to hew down the tree when a man smiteth the tree therewith.  
And that ●e thus specially meaneth in this chapter of the order of our eleccycon, appeareth as well in general by the hole progress thereof, as by this also that he assigneth that thing as the only difference between the elects and the reprobates/ alleging that the elects can never so fall but that they shall rise, by the reason that mercy waiteth ever upon them. whereby it well appeareth that Tyndale meaneth, that no reprobate, that is to wit none that finally shallbe dampened, hath god's mercy while ●elyueth waiting upon him to call upon him, and stir him to rise out of his sin. For except he meant so/ he should put elects & reprobates all in one case, if he said that the mercy of god which only thing he sayeth waiting upon the elect, raiseth him out of sin, waited upon the reprobate to/ but if he should put some difference between them by reason of the different working of their free wills, which Tyndale will none of in no wise.  
Now meaning falsely thus/ he useth yet in his speech a foolish wiliness, as doth a coney that covereth her head, and weeneth all were well when all her loins be open.  
For he saith that the elects can not so fall but that they shallbe so saved, because mercy waiteth upon them. And therein he saith truth. For if god had not foreseen that they would finally turn again to him, and with help of his grace deserve to be part takers of the merits of Chry●tes passion, and so to be saved/ he would not have elected them to salvation. But he meaneth that they shall necessarily be saved, so that they shall not mow other than repent & amend, as soon as god of his mercy calleth upon them to repent. And this though he thus mean, yet doth he dissimule it/ and saith not, that because mercy waiteth ever upon them, therefore they must needs rise after their fall/ but because mercy waiteth upon them, therefore they shall rise. But this point he layeth so open in many places of his work, that it is but a foolish wiliness of him to ween it well covered thus.  
wherefore he were as good to speak out plainly, & tell us whither he mean, that after a fall mercy wait any more upon any reprobate or not. If he say nay, he saith against the scriptures plain. For as in the beginning god of his great mercy calleth upon all people both elects and reprobates to come to him/ so doth he after both twain comen and received, and gone a way by sin again, call ordinarily upon them both of his like mercy still, as long as they live in this world here, and would if they would assent thereto themself and obey, be as glad to find them again as ever he was to win them before/ as the words of holy writ be plain in the Apocalyps, I stand at the door and knock.  
And if Tyndale will avoid this/ he must then say 
Apoca●●●. ●●.  that all the words of holy scripture by which god called upon the people to repentance, be spoken only to the elects. And then must he tell every man, how he may know himself for elect/ lest he may ween that they pertain not to him. And then shall he by the same reason say, that all the commandments be written unto the only elects to/ and then the reprobates can not be reproved for the not observing of them, if they were not written for them.  
But surely if Tyndale tell us that the mercy of god wait upon the only elects, and only calleth upon them/ he telleth us a vain foolish tale. And so he doth in deed/ for so he meaneth in deed against the plain scripture and all the old interpreters of the same, and against all the old holy doctors of Christ's church, and against the catholic faith of all christian nations this xu hundredth year, from the time of our saviour himself & his blessed apo●telles, even unto lousy Luther days.  
And yet natwithstandinge that he seemeth to assign the cause of the rising of his elects out of their sin, to be by the mercy of god alway waiting upon them/ yet handleth he the matter so, that a man may nat well wit by these words of his, whether he mean that when his elect is sunken down into his trances, and fallen a sleep in his lusts as he calleth it for a season/ whether he mean I say that mercy calleth upon him in his trance, & shaketh him out of his sleep, or else let him sleep still in his lusts, and the devil rock the cradle till the babe awake by himself. And surely he rather seemeth to say, that god nat awaketh him out of his lust/ but letteth him sleep in his lust until his lust have left him. As though god's calling of men from gluttony, were nat to put them in mind and call upon them busily, and inspire good thoughts of temperaunces while they be at their meet/ but let them than alone as in a trance and a sleep, till they be so weary of eating, that the grief and grinding in their belies standing a strutte with stuffing, call them up and awake them. And that is a good easy way to/ for than be they the more easy to entreat, to fast and forbear/ but nat much longer than till they wax an hungered again. And as it fareth in the trances and sleeps that folk fall in by the belly/ so fareth it likewise in the trances and sleeps that folk fall in by those parts that are beneath the belly. For when the rage is thereof (as Tyndall sayeth) over passed, and that they have in their trance and their sleep played out all their luskysshe lusts/ than they awake. And than as soon as they be awake/ they repent as Tyndale sayeth, and come again to chastity without resistance. But ever more I would that Tyndale should remember, that all this tale which he telleth us here, is for his purpose of elects a tale of very little effect. For this tale of such sleeping and awaking of elects, is nothing proper to the elects/ but a thing common both to the elects and to the reprobates to. And these rages, and these trances, & these sleeps in sinful fleshly lusts, into which folk fall, and out of which they wake again and repent/ the thing that Tyndale telleth us here as a thing far fat and sought, and searched out of the very bottom of his deep divinity/ the same thing in a manner as for thus farforth, doctor ovid describeth us well & plainly, in his pleasant poetry entitled the remedy of love. where he declareth after Tyndals' fashion full clerkly, how some wanton lovers after their rages passed and their lusts played out, lie then waking, and have meditations of amendment, and of leaving of their lecherous love even lying by their lemans sides, and think they will come there no more, and would with good will that they had not come there than neither.  
In this chapter which Tyndale entytleth the order of election/ I look alway that he should as reason is, tell us those things that properly pertain unto the elects/ & the things that contrary wise appertain properly to the reprobates/ by which manner of handling of the matter, we might clearly perceive & understand what he meaneth, and what order of gods working or of the working of man's own will, he putteth in the course & progress of the tone sort and the t'other toward their final end, the tone of everlasting life, the t'other of eternal damnation,  
And always while I look for this/ Tyndale, beside that his conclusions be false heresies in the end, telleth us no thing almost by the way (except only peradventure that last repentance before the death) but that they be commune as well to the final reprobates as to the final elects/ as this is also that in his chapter followeth, where he writeth in this wise.  Tyndale. 
God now and than withdraweth his hand, and leaveth them unto their own strength, to make them feel that there is no power to do good but of god only/ lest they should be proud of that which is none of theirs.  More. 
Tyndale maketh these words for a ground of a great matter, concerning the order of god used toward the elects. And upon this foundation he specially rereth his byelding, of the trances, and the sleeps, and slydinges of the elects into sins and errors/ in which sins yet they sin not, and in which errors yet they err not, because of their feeling faith. From which though they fall yet they fall not, because they feel it still though they feel it not.  
But what is there good reder in these words of his that he speaketh of the elects, that is not verified both in the elects and in the reprobates to. Now if he say that he speaketh here specially of the elects, because at sometime god withdraweth his hand from them, & that from reprobates he withdraweth his hand of help and grace alway. If he say thus, he saith untrue. For doth not god, as he of his goodness calleth them, and at their coming receiveth them/ so when they fall away by false faith, or faint heart, or fleshly delectation, call upon them again, as he doth upon his elects, without acception of persons or partial favour indifferently/ till he either some time for their immeasurable outrage, or commonly for their final impenytence, finally rejecteth and refuseth them? Among which fatherly cure and care for them, as well as for his elects before their final fall/ he useth the same ways to win & save them, that he useth to the other. ye and doth sometime peradventure give more of his gracious aid & help in this world toward salvation in heaven unto some reprobate wretch, that will for all that be damned / then to some of his elects, that will so work with his grace that he finally shall be saved. As I doubt not but some two souls have been saved and now sit in heaven, with the tone half of the grace that judas had, and cast of, and finally fell into hell.  
And therefore this that Tyndale here telleth us of elects, that god sometime withdraweth his hand and leaveth them to their own strength/ he may as well tell us of the reprobates as of the elects.  
Now the cause why god withdraweth his hand and his help, is not alway the cause that Tyndale here allegeth, because he longeth always to make a glance against all the merit of man's fire will/ but to avoid the pride of the mind, and the far less boldness presuming upon the surtye of high holy living or faith/ which many men may fall in by taking themself for god almyghties mynyons, though they give all the thank to himself, and ascribe no thing to their own strength at all, nor ween they have no fire will at all neither. For the proud pharysey that despised the poor publican, 
Lucae. 18.  though he were proud of his deeds, yet ascribed them not unto himself, nor said not all this have I done good lord of mine own strength. But he said, I thank the thereof good lord that I am such/ and that thou haste made me better, and given me the grace to live more holily than this publycane/ and said not, I thank thereof myself. And therefore as I say, god withdraweth his hand to show his elects and the deed all thing reckoned from the first to the last, came only of god himself. And saint Poule sayeth, what hast thou that thou hast nat received/ and than what gloryeste thou, 
1. Corin●h. 4.  as though thou hadst nat received it. He sayeth nat as though it were thine own. For when I have received it, it is than mine and so may I call it.  
Another false intent wherefore Tyndale telleth us this tale of withdrawing of god's hand sometime from his elects, is because he would have it stand with his heresy that he goeth so fast about/ that is to wit that the elects do not sin deadly in their deadly sins, because they do it nat willingly but of infirmity for lack of power. Inpursuing of which purpose he would make it seem, that god withdraweth his hand from them without their fault, and than leaveth them no power to resist, & so no blame in them nor no sin, though he be content to call it sin, after the manner that the motion toward sin which rymayne of original sin be called sin. This is Tyndalles' intent in this matter, by which he excuseth the sin of the elects by the withdrawing of god's hand from them/ nor for any default of their own, or any sin that they have done, 
Matt●. ●●.  but to keep them only from the sin that they would else do at another tyme. And where as god doth for this point both for elects and reprobates all after one, that is to wit never withdraweth his grace from the tone nor from the t'other, till they begin themself to withdraw their will from him/ he dissymuleth that point, & goeth forth in his matter that he byeldeth upon that foundation, and sayeth.  Tyndale. 
God said so so●e a weight of persecution upon david's back, that passed his strength to bear. So that he crieth o●te out in his psalms, saying that he had lived well and followed the right way of god in vain. For the more he kept himself from sin, the worse it went with him as he thought/ and the better with his enemy Saul, the worse he was. Yet god left him not there, but con●orted him and showed him things which before he wist not of ●ho●● that the saints must be patient and abide gods harvest, until the w●y●enes of ungodly sinners be full ripe, that god may reap it in dew season. God also suffered occasions stronger than David to ●ail upon him, and to carry him clean out of the way. Was he not ready for a chursysshe answer to have slain ●●bell, and all the males of his house, so much as the child in the cradle. How be it god withheld him and kept him back from that evil, thorough the wisdom of Abegall. How long s●ombred he, or rather how hard in sleep was he in the adultery of Bathseba, and in the murder of her husband Vriah. But at loath times as so●ne as he was rebuked and his fault told him/ he repented immediately, and turned again meekly. Now in all that long time from the adultery of Baths●be until the prophet Nathan rebuked him, he had not lost his faith, nor yet his love unto the laws of god no more than a man loseth his wits when he is asleep. He had forgot himself only/ and had not maliciously cast of their yoke of god's commandments from of his neck. There is no man so good, but that there cometh a time upon him, when he fealeth in himself no more faith or love unto god, than a sick man of times feeleth the taste of his meat which he eateth.  More. 
Lo good readers, here ye see that by Tyndales doctrine, David did no deadly sin/ but was ever out of fault and not blame worthy, neither by impatience drawing near to despair in persecution, nor by the purpose of much manslaughter at an angry word, nor by adultery conceived at the sight of another man's wife, nor by the traitorous destruction of his friendly servant in recompense of truth & amends of his misdeed. All this was no deadly sin in him, because he was an elect.  
But yet is Tyndale ashamed to confess and say boldly, that to be elect is enough, and that he may do what he lysne and sin at his pleasure, and that god will give him leave to do it, & cause him to be repentant when he hath done it, and forgive him forthwith when he repenteth, & and so forth totiens quotiens a pena et culpa, so that he believe it well and surely trust thereto, lest for faint hope & fear he fall the less to sin. This tale is Tyndale (I say) somewhat ashamed to tell us even well and plainly forth/ and therefore he deviseth another way, and would make us believe that they be so preserved by the faith, that they do never any deadly sin. But their deeds be such, as men may well see that they be nat to be blamed for them be they never so bestely, but very babis●he and venial/ and such as god can do no less of very right and reason than remit and forgive/ and that for three great causes here specified by Tyndale.  
first for they never sin but upon great occasions far above their strength. secondly, for after their horrible deeds done, they repent upon rebuking without resistance. And thirdly (which most is of all) all the while that they be in doing, the poor babes wot near what they do, but be all the while a sleep, as he putteth here his ensample by David. And therefore let us consider David his deeds with Tyndals' words, & examine in them these three godly reasons.  
first he sayeth that David sins arose upon great occasions above David his strength/ which great occasions god suffered to fall upon him and carry him away. For when he would have slain nabal and all his sons even to the child in the cradle, he fell nat into that mind without great occasion ye wot well. For the rude fellow had as Tyndale well rehearseth, given him a churlish answer. And what man were there so unreasonable, that would not think that a king or a great man had cause enough to kill twenty paysans & villains, for a churlish answer of one of them? Now when he fell to adultery & thereby to manslaughter/ had he not a great occasion to it & importable to bear? For he saw the woman as he looked out at his window. And therefore who so ever have once the sight of a woman, is excusable if he take her when he can catch her/ & no man greatly to blame, but either a blind man, or he that taketh one in the dark whom he never saw in the light.  
But we must here yet remember lest we mistake Tyndale, that these great & strong occasions were not so very great & strong of themself/ but they were as Tyndale saith stronger than david, and able to carry him aways which he saith, to show us that they were of the strength in comparison of the person, not so much by the force & strength of their own nature, as by the lightness, frailty, & feebleness of David/ as a small burden is a great weight upon a child, & able to bear him down/ & a little wind able enough to blow away a feather.  
Then would ye ween that he accuseth david and the elects, because they be so light and so frail to fall upon such occasions as be strong to them, by reason of their own feebleness. Nay forsooth. For here ye must remember that to provide them their excuse in this point, was the cause for which as I told you before he laid for a foundation/ that god at such times first withdraweth his hand of his help, & then must they needs be week, feeble, and frail. And so their fall cometh of the occasions/ & the occasions be mighty to them, by reason of their feebleness. And their feebleness cometh of the wythdrawing of god's hand. And he withdraweth it without any desert and default of them, only to keep them from the sin of taking their good works for their own. And so is there in all the progress of their deed, n● deadly sin in themself/ sith the occasions that bring them to it, be without their own fault strenger then they/ and by reason of their fawteleste feebleness, carry them clean away.  
And this is as ye see the first goodly cause, for which Tyndale will make us ween, that the abominable deeds of elects be no deadly sins because of the great occasions. Against which if the matter were worth the argument, we would prece upon him sore with the sins of the reprobates/ and bear him in hand that some of them have as great occasions of their sins sometime, as is a churlysshe answer to the king of a man, or the sight of a naked woman out at a wynddwe for adultery. And we would then ask him such questions further, either of holding of god's hand over them, or withdrawing his hand of help from them, with other diverse dependauntes thereupon, which every learned man may some find out himself and almost unlearned to● which when Tyndale should answer to/ he should soon make every wise man see, that in this chapter of the order of their election, he hath elected and chosen a very foolish order.  
But for as much as the folly thereof is open and plain of itself/ we shall let the further dispicions of this point pass, 
1. Corinth. 10.  as against which saint Poule plainly speaketh and saith unto us, God is faithful which suffereth you not to be tempted above y● that ye may bear, but maketh with the temptation a way out also, that ye may well wield it. By which words this point of occasions above our power is clean carried away/ and it is clearly determined, that god suffereth no such temptation to come unto us, but such as we may both reprobates and elects be able to withstand if we will, thorough the assistance of gods gracious hand/ which he never withdraweth but in the fault of our own will, and never denieth to put it forth unto us if we call therefore and will take hold upon it. And therefore sith as I say the reproof of this first point is plain/ I will now pass it over and see what substance is in the second.  
The second thing is, that as soon as they be rebuked and their fawtes told them, they repent immediately and turn again meekly. For this he said ii or iii times in two or three chapters/ and now he confirmeth it with his ensample of david, which did so as he saith at both times.  
But yet is this but barely laid forth for the order of the elects. For of troth thus do some reprobates to among repent, not only when they be rebuked, but also before to/ and be forgiven at their repentance and penance as well as be the elects as long as they do so repent, till they be dampened because they die at last impenytent.  
And also this is not proved to be alway true, that every elect repenteth at the first rebuke, and meekly returneth without resistance, though david so did twice. There is I trust many a man in heaven, that was rebuked thrice of some one fault, and defended it full stiffly before he repented, and yet amended after full well. And for ensample we need no ferther than the blessed apostles/ and specially saint Thomas of Ind, 
Ioh●. 26.  which left not his diffidence and dystruste, neither at the first speaking nor the second, nor till he put his finger in god almighty his side. But Tyndale excuseth all that by being amazed, as he doth all the elects horrible deeds, by being in trances and sleeps, as he doth david here. For that is the third point and the most special excuse of all elects from all deadly sin, in that they be a sleep all the while they do it. For thus saith he of david, as ye have herd.  
How long slumbered he, o● rather how hard in sleep was he in the adultery of Bethsaba, and in the murder of her husband Vriah.  More. 
david was here in a very long slumber & a very deep deed sleep in deed, if he did all those devilish deeds in his sleep. Tyndale of likelihood lay near him and heard him all the while snort and mowte. And if he so say that he did/ then is his tale as full proved as is any part of all his heresies. And except he say it of his own certain knowledge, he shall else never make me believe, that david did spy her, and sent for her, and talk with her, and get her with child, and sent for her husband, and devise the murder, & write the letter, & sent the man to his death, and all these deeds in divers days, & all this while still a sleep.  
But Tyndale will have him a sleep needs, for the defence of his own foolish heresy, whereby he teacheth us that the elect is by faith borne of god, and therefore doth never sin willingly, nor consent to sin, nor cast of the yoke of the law, nor the love to the law of god. And therefore he saith,  Tyndale. 
Now in all that long time from the adultery of Bethsabe until the prophet Nathan rebuked him, he had not lost his faith nor his love unto the laws of god, no more than a man loseth his wits while he is a sleep.  More 
Lo because he was all this while a sleep/ therefore in all this while he lost neither faith nor love to the law, no more than a man loseth his wits when he is a sleep. Is not here a wise tale trow ye? except that Tyndale had either lost his wits, or else were himself asleep while he wrote this/ he could never for shame tell us this tale. what calleth he losing of faith or love? no thing but such departing thereof, as he never cometh to it again? If that be so/ then Tyndale setteth our saviour christ to school, and teacheth him to speak. For he saith in the gospel, that a man lost one of his hundred sheep, 
Lucae. 15.  and left the remanant and sought the lost sheep, and found it. And that the woman had lost her money, though by ransacking up her house and seeking she found it at last again. Now Tyndale is not so mad I suppose, as to say that if a man let fall his ring in the main see, though he find it five weeks after in a fishes maw, that therefore he never lost it because he findeth it again. The common people say among, that nothing can be founden till it be lost/ saving that of a thief they say in sport, he can find a thing ere it be lost/ and so they praise him in his cunning, that he can do such a mastery as no true man can.  
Now if a thing may be lost in deed for a season, though it be after founden again/ how proveth Tyndale here, that david in all this long while between the first sight of Bethsabe and the rebuke of Nathan, never lost neither faith nor love.  
He proveth it us in this wise by ensample. A man that lieth a sleep loseth nat his wits/ and therefore in likewise David dying in lechery, lost neither faith to god nor love to his law. Is nat this well likened? yes by my she●he. Less like than Paul's steeple to a dagger sheathed, till he prove us thoroughly that David was that while in a very sleep in deed.  
For god hath naturally provided sleep for man's rest from labour, and for his refreshing again to labour. And the withdrawing of the use of our wits is there not forbidden by god's ordinance, except we sleep when we should nat. And so is neither adultery nor such manner of manslaughter/ but ●e things of god forbidden & of their nature abominable. And in the sleep also there is only a suspending of the use of the wits, and no contrary wilful doing against the wit/ as there was a wilful working of David, against the faithful love of god's law in his horrible deeds.  
For as for his faith, as farforthe as concerneth only the nature of faith, that is to wit of belief/ I will well agree with Tyndale that he lost it nat in all the while. And in Tyndals' faith for one point, in that he ●ugleth faith in to hope/ I will well agree also that David had all that while enough thereof still, and peradventure a little to much to. 
Ga●a. 5.  But surely as for the lively faith that worketh as saint Poule sayeth by love/ that kind of faith had he lost for that while in which he willingly wrought evil/ except Tyndale say that all his lechery & his manslaughter to, was wrought by love, because all that ever he did was done for the love that he bore to Bethsabe. And if Tyndale tell me so/ than driveth he me to the hard wall. For than can I go no farther in that point, but as for as concerneth his faith I must needs give it over.  
How be it yet as touching his love unto the law of god/ very fain would I here how Tyndale can defend it, that he lost nat that love in no point of all that long while, in which he willingly wrought against it, first his foul adultery, and after mischievous manslaughter to. This shall I (sayeth Tyndale) defend you well enough. For ye touched yourself right now, the very point at which I would myself have you/ when ye said that in the natural sleep the wit is only suspended, and the will therewith in likewise, so that a man doth nat wittingly nor willingly any contrary act against the wit, as ye said that David did in his deeds. But now say I that David did none of these things wittingly nor willingly, but upon those occasions his wits were ravished away/ and both his wit and his will suspended as it is in the natural sleep, so that he had forgotten himself, and for the while neither had wit nor will. For if his wit had showed him his fault/ his will must needs have followed. But his wit was all that while though nat lost, yet carried away clean with the rage of the lust. And when the wit is away, the will is gone therewith. For it can nothing do but as the wit showeth it as I have said before. And than was the wit a sleep and the will followed the fumes that he fell into the fantasy, and so no consenting to sin/ but as the man was in manner all a sleep, so were all his deeds in manner but a dream.  
Here is Tyndals' proof piked out unto the best that I can perceive of his words. But now this reason of his, neither defendeth David against the loss of love, and yet utterly loseth him by Tyndals' doctrine the most especial faith. For Tyndale as ye shall here after read, calleth the faith of the elects a feeling faith. Now if David were in a sleep, all that while & had thereby forgotten his faith and himself to/ than though his faith had all the while the life, yet at the lest it lost for the while the feeling. For so doth the man ye wot well in the sleep.  
But let this pass this one's as for this time/ and see how he proveth that David was fallen to such a deed sleep, that he had in all that while neither wit nor will/ and therefore consented nat unto sin against the law of god. Proof layeth he none in this world, but only saith it was so. Now might he lie by possybilyte, though his tale were likely. But yet am I content if his tale be likely, let him be believed. But now if his tale be very far unlikely, reason were he brought one witness with him at the lest.  
Now than when David first began to spy her, let that be chance and occasion of one rising in his sleep/ but when he liked her and longed for her, and stood still & looked on her, and kindled his heat himself, and set himself sore a fire/ was he all that while a sleep? when he thought he would have her, when he sent his messenger for her; when he stood and talked with her, when he broke the matter to her, when he wan her assent to the sin, when he fulfilled his fowl fles●hely lust, when he sent for her husband to colour and cloak their offence, when he compassed and contrived to keep her for himself and kill her good husband his own faithful servant, when he devised and wrote the traitorous deadly letter, and delivered that innocent man his own death in his hand, to deliver over to him that should set him where he should be slain/ did David in all this while among all these evil thoughts, all these ungracious words, all these abominable deeds, never fall from the love of the law of god/ but was all this while a sleep, and never consented to sin, nor did none of all these things willingly? No sayeth Tyndale. I say no more but it is likely yes. And therefore let Tyndale tell us whereby he proveth the contrary. I prove it sayeth he by that that he was an elected person that finally should be saved/ and therefore because of that feeling faith with which he was borne of god, he could nat consent unto sin. Very well. Than if a reprobate had done the like upon the like occasion or greater/ he had sinned deadly, for lack of feeling faith, only because he was nat elected. And if he repented alike upon less occasion, yet he should nat be forgiven, for lack of the feeling faith which was never given him, but ever kept from him, only because he was nat elected.  
If I ask Tyndale here how he knoweth or why he believeth, that David was elected to salvation/ what will he answer. He will nat say I am sure, because the church so teacheth him, lest I should ask him again which church. For than were he forced to grant that he believeth the teaching of this comen known catholic church of ours, sith that his own unknown church can teach him nothing to be the better believed upon the credence of that church, nat being known for the church. Now shall he nat find as far as I remember, any plain evident scripture proving his final salvation. Than if Tyndall answer that he findeth in scripture of his faith and his repentaunces, and nothing of his final damnation, and therefore he believeth of these lykelyhedes that he was elect to the final salvation, and shall come to heaven at the day of doom (for Tyndales sect believeth nat that he shall come thither afore) I will nat here press upon him with the samples of such as he hath seen here live well & believe well after his own opinion, both while he believed well himself and sins he believed wrong, of whose salvation yet he maketh nat himself so sure as of the salvation of David/ but holding myself for this time satisfied that he believe it so well upon good likelyhedes, that he should nat believe a man that would without good proof tell him the contrary/ I shall no more but pray him to be so reasonable and so indifferent again toward us, as to give us leave in likewise to believe upon good lykelyhedes that David consented to sin, and nat to believe him, that without good proof would with his bare word make us ween the contrary, and boldly bear us in hand that while he wrought so moche wickedness he was all the while a sleep.  
In which point, as I have before proved in another chapter by like matter, if he were so a sleep, his very first falling into such a sleep was his own wilful negligence/ while he beginning to be moved unto lewdness at the first sight of Bethsabe, stood still and fed his devilish delight in beholding her, and thereby willingly suffered the death of sin to enter into his heart by the glass windows of his eyen● whereupon all that ever he did after pursuing thereupon, all had he been in such rage that he neither wist what he did nor where he were should have been imputed unto him/ as he that sinfully drinketh himself drunk deadly sinneth, and shall die also if he kill a man in that drunkenness.  
Nor it excuseth nat David nor no man else that Tyndale sayeth, There is no man so good, but that there cometh a time upon him, in which he fealeth in himself no more faith or love unto god, than a sick man oft-times feeleth the taste of his meat ● whither this happeneth unto the best men or not, god wot I can nat tell/ I wot nat what affections they feel/ for I am none of them, nor I fear me Tyndale neither, as wise and expert as he maketh himself of their feeling. would god we were both of the best, so the best were never the worse, nor waxed as evil as we, and we made their matches in that manner wise. But this dare I surely say, that when so ever the best is in such case/ it excuseth nat David fro deadly sin. For than is the ●este very nought.  
And finally for conclusion of David his deeds, where Tyndale sayeth he could nat sin deadly because he was an elect/ for which cause god kept him thorough the feeling faith from consenting to the service of sin, and fro the malicious casting of/ of the yoke of god's commandments from his neck: it appeareth weary well that of his neck was it once, whither himself cast it of, or Bethsabe took it of because he should not come yoked to bed. For well we wot it held him not within the hedge of god's commandments, but that he thrust his head thorough and broke a couple of them, and ran unyoked a good while. And it will I ween well appear also, that he cast of the soak himself/ & then will all the doubt stand upon this only word maliciously. which word how Tyndale taketh, that can I not tell/ but except he take it for no malice, by cause it was all for love. else if he agree that the contempt and despising of god's law may be called malice, and a malicious casting of of the yoke of god's law both fro love and dread, as I ween it is exponed in god almyghties vocabulary: then dread I no thing but that it will well appear against Tyndale all the hole matter/ both that david agreed and consented to sin, & wilfully cast of god's yoke & maliciously to. This will well appear I say by plain & evident scripture.  
For after those horrible sins so committed by David, his deadly deeds so disposed god, as it is written in the xii. chapter of the second book of kings, 
2. Regime 12  that he sent Nathan the prophet unto him. which by the commandment of god, after that he had put unto him the parable of the rich man that took away the poor man's sheep, & thereby made him give sentence unware against himself/ he said further unto David as in the person of almighty god, in this manner wise as followeth.  
why haste thou then set my word at nought, and done evil in my sight? Thou haste killed with sword Uryah Hetheus, and his wife hast thou taken to thy wife, & him hast thou slain with the sword of the sons of Ammon. And therefore the sword shall never be taken away from thy house, because thou hast despised me, and taken to thy wife the wife of Uryah Hetheus. And therefore thus saith our lord: behold, I shall raise up evil against thee, even out of thine own house/ & I shall take away from the thy wives before thy face, & give them unto one that is nighest unto thee, & he shall lie with them in the sight of this son. For thou haste committed this deed privily/ but I will accomplish this my word in the sight of all Israel & this son.  
Lo good readers, here see ye very clear, that where as Tyndale saith that David in all those horrible deeds did yet no deadly sin, because he sayeth he consented not to sin, nor died none of these deeds willingly, nor cast not of the yoke of love toward the law of god/ god here saith that david did in those horrible deeds dyspyce both his law and himself to. And how did he then keep still his love to the law of god, in the while in which he despised both the law of god and god himself also? Or how saith Tyndale that david consented not to the sin, when god himself that best knew his thought laid his sins so sore to his charge, that he appointed an endless plague for the punishment thereof? till by his repentance & his humble confession, god as he forgave the dedelynesse of the sin, and translated it from mortal in to venial, so changed the punishment from endless in to ending.  
For where as the prophet, had before his repentance and confession said unto him by the bidding of god, The plague shall abide in thine house for ever world with end/ forthwith after his repentance and his confession made, he said unto him, Our lord hath translated thy sin that was, from deadly to venial/ that is to wit the punishment from eternal to temporal. And therefore the prophet said, that yet the child that he bygatte upon her in that adultery, should die as it died after in deed. And yet was not david out of hope with other penance (which he had liefer sustain) to purge and redeem the punishment to/ and therefore fasted and prayed to save the child, until the time that it was deed in deed.  
And thus good christian readers ye may clearly see, that all Tyndals proper process of king david, concerning the order of his election, that he was thereby preserved for ever from all deadly sin, is clearly comen to nought/ and all his words reproved by the very plain words of scripture. And yet by the same scripture for advantage, is there another of Tyndals heresy destroyed/ by which he teacheth that after repentance all is forthwith forgiven unto the elect, both sin and pain and all/ so far fo●th that for the sin passed, the party shall never after be punusshed nor suffer any pain, neither in this world; purgatory, nor any where else. The plain reproof whereof of appeareth evidently/ the deadly sin translated, and the temporal punysshement reserved by this open place of scripture. By which is reproved Tyndales other heresy that we now go about/ in which he teacheth us that david did none of his horrible deeds willingly, nor consented to sin, nor maliciously cast of the yoke of love toward the law of god, and therefore sinned not deadly. wherein as ye see against Tyndale telling us this/ very god himself telleth us the contrary/ and that david sinned so deadly, that he sinfully despised both god's law and god himself therewith.  
And now that Tyndale hath of king david told us his wise process of not sinning, such as ye see it proved/ he proceedeth forth from david, and telleth us as wise a tale of Christ's blessed apostles. Of whom thus he saith.  Tyndale. 
And in like manner the apostles of ●hryste at his passion were astonied and amazed/ and in such a storm of temptations, for the sudden change from so great glory into so vile and shameful death, that they had forgot all the miracles & all the words which he had told them before, how that he should be betrayed and delivered on the same manner unto death. Moreover they never understood that saying of his death, because their hearts were alway heavy and over lad with earthly thoughts. For though they saw him raise up other/ yet who should raise him up when he were deed they could not comprehend. Rede what thou reader canst/ and thou shalt find no temptation like unto that from the creation of the world, or so great as it by the hundred part. So that the wonderful sudden change, and the terrible sight of his passion, and of his most cruel and most vy●e death, and the loss of whom they so greatly loved that their hearts would fain have died with him, and the fear of their own death, and the impossibility that a man should rise again of his own power/ so occupied their minds and so astonied them and amazed them, that they could receive no comfort, either of the scripture or of the miracles which they had seen christ do, nor of the monitions and warning wherewith he had warned them before, neither of the women that brought them tidings that he was risen. The sword of temptations, with fear, sorrow, morning, and weeping, had so deeply pierced their hearts, and the cruel sight had so cumbered their minds/ that they could not believe until christ himself came, death put of and ouercome● ye and when they first saw him, they were astonied for wondering and joy together, that thoughts arose in their hearts, Alas is this he, or doth some spirit mock us/ he was fain to let them feel him and to eat with them to strength their faiths.  More. 
Here have ye heard good devout christian people, a piece of Tyndals' devout godly collation, in which the man is not so far fallen into devotion, but he is much further fallen from his wit/ whereby he neither perceiveth the point that he should prove, and over that seeth not that his sermon saith more against his matter than we that impugn his purpose.  
For his purpose is to prove us that none elect can at any time sin deadly. And now forgetteth he that point, & telleth us that the apostles never lost their faith. which if it were granted him, yet wan he not his purpose. For they might keep still the faith in their heart, 
Roma. 10.  and yet syn●e deadly by the denying thereof with their mouth. For as holy saint Poule saith, In heart believe we for our justification / and with the mouth we confess it for our salvation. Showing by those words, that neither are we righteous by saying with our mouth that we do believe, but if we believe in our heart/ nor shall be saved by the belief of our heart, but if no fere can let us to confess it with our mouth. whereto consenten the words of our saviour himself, 
Matth. 10.  where he saith, who so deny me before men, I shall deny him to before my father, which is in heaven. And thus for the first point Tyndale in his holy sermon is so deep in devotion, that he forgetteth where about he goth.  
Now for the second point, where I said no more but that they lost the sufficient faith, that is to say the life of their faith/ he goth about as I told you, to prove us that the apostles such as were elect never lost their faith at all, nor at any time fell therefro. And this point handleth he so properly, that ever he telleth us that they lost it not, and ever he proveth us that they lost it. And by the self same words by which he sayeth that they keep it alway still, by the self same I say alway still he proveth that they kept it not still in deed, but were very far fallen therefro.  
For first read me all those words of his again/ and as gaily as they be couched, with astonied, and amazed, & stormy temptations, terrible sights with their hearts pierced, and their minds cumbered, with sight of his death, and fere of their own, that ere they could believe his resurrection, he was fain to eat and drink with them & to let them feel him/ is not all this tale excuses of their faith fallen from them, and no proof of the keeping? what was that in them, but the lack & loss of the faith that Tyndale telleth us, that they thought it impossible that he should rise again, because they thought he could never of his own power, and could nat think or devise who should raise him else?  
Now where he sayeth that all this happened them thorough temptation/ that will we well agree. But yet is that no more to say, but like as David did avowtry thorough temptation, and killed his good friend thorough temptation/ and as Eve eat the forbidden fruit thorough temptation, and Adam eat it also thorough temptation/ and judas betrayed christ also thorough temptation: so th'apostles fell from their faith, and l●ste it, and all thorough temptation. Let Tyndale excuse every sin that cometh of temptation/ and whose sin shall he leave unexcused, except peradventure the devil.  
But the sin of men standeth in this, that they break the commandment of god, in that they do nat as he biddeth them, strive and resist the temptation. which till they cease to do, if they trust in god and call help of his grace/ there can no temptation be so great that it can over come them/ as witnesseth our lord by the mouth of saint Poule: God is faithful, 
1● Corinth. ●.  which suffereth you nat to be tempted above that ye may bear/ but giveth with the temptation away out that ye may well wyelde it.  
But let Tyndale say for excuse of their sin what him list/ which though thoccasions and circumstances may minish or aggrieve, and so may theirs be less grievous than the sins of some other/ and the sin of some one of themself also less than another of his own fellows: yet shall Tyndale never make it good, but that when he sayeth they could nat believe, if he say true, the lack of their belief was a grievous sin.  
For where as Tyndale would seem to say well for the apostles, in that he sayeth they would fain have died with our saviour, saving for the fear of their own death: Christ had before forbidden them such fear of temporal death upon the pain of eternal death, when he said unto them, fear ye nat them that kill the body/ which when they have killed the body have nothing that they can do more. But I shall show you whom you shall fear. Fear you him which when he hath killed the body, hath the power to cast the soul into the fire of hell. And in another place he told them according to the same, who so will save his soul in this world, 
johan. 12  shall lose it/ And who so shall lose his soul in this world, keepeth it still for the everlasting life. And finally to show them that all these words most properly pertained to the putting away of that fere of death, by which folk for fear of death would forbear and refuse to die for him and his faith: he ●ayde the words which I before remembered, who so deny me before men, 
Matthei. 10.  I shall deny him also before my father which is in heaven.  
And therefore Tyndale in vain goeth about to excuse the sin of Christ's apostles, which they rather will have known, and the great mercy of god therewith/ and therefore they write it themself. & the rebukes therewith that our saviour gave them therefore/ to th'end that we should both beware of falling in the like, and yet if it in our own default misfortune us to fall, nat despair therefore, but repent and arise with gods help as they did/ and than shall he forgive us as he forgave them. And this would rather Christ's blessed apostles that Tyndale should tell us truth, than under pretext of their excuse, teach us false heresies/ and make us ween that upon temptation to forsake our saviour for fear of temporal death, were no deadly sin. whereof our saviour himself as ye see teacheth us plain the contrary/ and will nat admit for us I fear me, the excuse of Tyndale for th'apostles, if we come and say, By my faith good lord I was a feared and so forgot all that ever thou taughtest me.  
How be it that they sin nat in losing of their faith, I let no man to believe Tyndale, when sa ever he prove himself more credible than Christ. But here ye see that as I told you that they lost their faith in deed/ Tyndale proveth us after his manner in his fore-rehearsed words, wherein he sayeth nay.  
And yet is the man of so good remembrance, and so good heed taketh where about he goeth, that forthwith in his next words after he sayeth very plainly more and more, that they could nat believe the resurrection/ and excuseth them thus, that for all that they hated him nat in their heart. Lo thus he sayeth.  Tyndale. 
How be it there was none of them that was fallen in his heart from Christ.  More. 
who can more plainly say that they were fallen from the faith and lacked the belief, than Tyndale sayeth here? For though he sayeth that none of them was in his heart fallen from Christ/ yet he sayeth they could nat believe the substantial article of the faith of Christ, that is to wit the belief of his resurrection/ without the belief whereof all the remanant would nat than serve them to salvation.  
And that they believed nat that article, Tyndale here sayeth expressly. For he sayeth that though they ran to the sepulchre, and would fain have believed that he was risen/ yet they could nat believe it/ the wound of their temptation was so great, that they could nat believe it at the preaching of a woman, without any other miracle. Than ask I no more but this tale of Tyndale. For if they colder not believe, than did they nat believe/ and so lacked they than the belief. For as for that they came thereto again, and that joseph of Arimath●a, 
johan. 19  and Nychodemus, and the wo●●en came afterward to strength & boldness, 
Lucae. 24.  and that his two disciples toward Emaus burned in their breasts to here speak of him: all this maketh to Tyndales purpose in this point nat the value of a points end. For we speak of his apostles, in the time in which himself sayeth here they believed nat, nor could believe it. At that time say I, that sith they than believed not, as they did nat if they could nat, they than had for that while the lack of the faith.  
And also to what purpose telleth Tyndale us, that they could nat believe at the bare preaching of the woman? As though they were nothing to blame for that, because they were but women/ when the apostles themself know these women for such, as they were worthy more credence some one of them than some many men.  
And for to excuse the apostles in the lack of belief, because the messengers were but women/ Tyndale doth therein no more but lay lack and oversight in our saviour, that in a thing that he would have believed, sent out such women on his myssage.  
But Tyndale woteth well if he believe the gospel, that no more they did when they saw the miracle of himself coming in before them the doors being shut, and speaking unto them/ but were so far fro the belief of his resurrection at the first, that they had went that he had been some spirit, till he nat only preached to them, but also reasoned with them there upon.  
Nor yet saint Thomas, which as Tyndale sayeth could nat believe till he saw christ/ neither did believe the woman nor all his own fellows, nor our saviour himself upon the sight neither, till he felt him fully, and put his finger in his side. And this he did of stoberne standing in his miss belief/ in that after his belief lacking, he went nat about to seek the truth, and endeavour himself to believe them that told him the truth/ but as it seemeth by the gospel, obstinately stood in his distrust, and said till he did (that he thought of lykelyhede he never should) that is to wit till he felt him and put his finger into his wounds, he would never believe it.  
And I say plainly, who so ever being informed of any article of the faith which god bindeth us to believe, believeth it nat/ the cause why he believeth not is nat because he can nat, but because he will nat. For if he would do the thing which Tyndale taketh for folly, that is to wit nat resist but endeavour himself to submit his reason unto faith, with asking help of god for the furtherance of his imperfection/ he thus doing his part, god would I say nat fail on his part again, but would effectually work with him to perfit in him the faith in which he preventeth him by g●ace/ which prevention was when he gave him the grace and occasion to be first told of the matter.  
But ever cometh Tyndale by degrees/ & ever he seeth himself likely to be driven fro step to step. And therefore where he said that the elect can nat sin deadly/ first he allegeth for the cause thereof that he sinneth never, but upon great occasions. And saying that a man may thereto say what than? He goeth to another step, and saith that he never consenteth to sin. And than saying that step will nat be defended/ he goeth to another, and sayeth he consenteth nat to sin to serve it. And perceiving that he can nat stand sure there/ he steppeth down to the next, and sayeth that he casteth nat of from his neck the yoke of of love toward the law of god. And yet perceiving y● that step will not hold him neither/ he cometh at last unto another step, and saith he casteth it not of maliciously/ trusting because we can not look into the man's breast, to see whither he bore any malice therein, we should never be able to convict him of that word, when he put on is there to maliciously. And yet from the step have I driven him/ & therein have I beguiled his hope, as ye before have herd in the sins of king David, by the words of god spoken by the mouth of Nathan the prophet.  
Now as he played there/ so playeth he by the apostles here. For first he saith they lost never the faith, because they were amazed, & then astonied, and then afeard, & th●n because they could not perceive the thing for poss●ble. Ans yet at last he cometh so near to the granting that they lacked it, that by plain words at length he saith the same thing himself/ affirming that they believed not nor could not believe. And yet would he now make us ween, that though they believed not, yet had they no lack of the faith/ because in the lack of their belief they had no malice. And that thing he proveth thus.  Tyndale. 
There was none of them that ever raised on him, and came so far f●rth ●o say he was a deceyue●, and wrought with the devils craft all this while, & see whereunto he is come in the en●e, we defy him false wretch that he was and his false doctri●e also. And thereunto music they have com● at the las●e, when fear, sorrow, and wondering had been pas●e, if they had not ●en prevented and helped in the mean season.  More. 
Lo good christen readers, here hath Tyndale taught us, that who so believe not the resurrection of Chryst/ yet all the while he raileth not upon him & calleth him wrech, & defieth him, he is save enough. For all the while though they believe not, yet lacketh he not his kylyef. And then if he be an elect ● he shallbe prevented of god, & helped before, ere ever he fall in to such blasphemy. But & if he be a reprobate/ then when he cometh once into the case that the apostles were in as Tindale saith/ he shall for lack of such prevention & help, fall into such railing and blasphemy/ & then is he remediless he saith. And therefore saith he both here and in diverse places, that the seed of god preventeth alway, and keepeth & preserveth the elects from falling into the case.  
Here is a goodly tale be ye sure. But now whereby shall Tyndale of this doctrine make us sure?  
The gospel to begin with for one piece, maketh us sure of the contrary.  
For therein we find that the traitor judas, which was I ween as far from the belief of the resurrection as ever was saint Thomas of Ind/ came never yet unto such railing and blaspheming of Chryst/ as Tyndale saith that the apostles because they believed not, had they not been by grace prevented, must needs have comen unto.  
For when he went about to make his bargain, & bytray him and sell him/ we find not that he called him false wretch, nor no such vylanouse word. And after we find that when he repent and brought again the money, he was far from railing upon him, and said I have offended god in bytrayenge the righteous blood. And surely though he had at the selling railed as much upon him toward his passion, as Tyndale in his books now raileth & jesteth upon him in the blessed sacrament after his resurrection: yet dare I be bold upon his mercy to say, that if that old judas in his repentance, had with the looking upon his own sin looked also upon the great mercy of god/ and also that if Tyndale now this new judas will repent his railing against Christ's blessed body the sacrament of the awlter, & ask our lord mercy therefore: both the tone should have had, & the t'other shall have, remission and forgiveness of that deadly sin with change of hell into purgatory/ into which the tone in vain now fain would, and the t'other except he mend hereafter shall as much in vain wish to come.  
Now Tyndale will peradventure stick upon some soot conjecture of his own and stiffly bear us in hand, that though it be not written in the gospel, yet did judas when he sold christ, speak of him some blasphemous words, & had opprobrouse language against him/ and that the blasphemy thereof was the very cause why that he could never after by any repentance be forgiven his sin, and received again to grace.  
If Tyndale thus tell us, and will ween by this way to wind out/ we will for this ones forget to put him in mind of his own rule, that we need not believe him further than he findeth in plain and evident scripture. But we will tell him then, that there is as great lyklyhed and somedeal more to, that saint Poule when after the resurrection of christ, and the stoning of saint Stephen, 
Ac●uū. 9  persecuted and punished so cruelly the christian people/ did rail ●nd blaspheme the name of christ, and his doctrine, and miracles, and all that he taught and did. And yet for all this was he received after to grace & forgiveness/ & was after elected, ye and for the foresight of his repentance, change, and penance, was a chosen vessel before god before the world was made/ and had once the right belief of likelihood, as much as he was bounden to before the gospel preached, and then stood in state of grace/ and yet was suffered thorough his own fault to fall therefro, by refusing the gospel of christ, and after fell in hating and persecuting of his name and doctrine/ and not as it seemeth without blaspheming of his name, his living, his death, his doctrine, and his resurrection, and all that ever he did/ and yet by repentance and penance received to faith and to forgiveness again. And therefore needeth not Tyndale to despair, but that as evil as he is, he may yet repent and be forgiven if he will.  
But by this one ensample of saint Poule, are in the mean while utterly destroyed, not only Tyndals words last above rehearsed/ but over the all this his hole chapter of the order of our election/ whereof the hole purpose is in effect, that god keepeth them ever from all deadly sin.  
And thus good readers ye see how well he defendeth the apostles faith, which he saith they never lost at no time/ and yet confesseth himself that at one time they neither believed nor could believe. And yet while they believed not, they lost not their belief because they raileth not/ and because that after they came again to belief, therefore they lacked it not at any time before it came.  
Is not here good readers a wise and well told tale? It is enough for me, that how so ever Tyndale excuse their mistrust and unbelief/ I see themself write, that our saviour himself accused it, 
Maici. 16  and rebuked them sore of their incredulity and hard heart, for that they had not believed them that they had seen him rise. And now that Tyndale hath so wisely defended them all/ he cometh partycalarly to saint Peter and saith.  Tyndale. 
Ye and Peter as soon as he had denied christ/ came to himself immediately, and went out and wept bitterly for sorrow. And thus we see that Peter's faith failed not, though it were oppressed for a tyme.  More. 
Tyndale ever laboureth to lead us a mile fro the matter. For well ye wot the church teacheth not, nor no man was there ever any where so mad to say, that the chosen and elects do die in deadly sin/ but that they sometime do deadly sins/ that is to wit, such sins as if they died in them without repentance of them, they should be dampened for them.  
Against this doctrine of the catholic church/ taketh Tyndale in hand to prove us, as well by divers other titles of this book, and by his exposition upon the first pistle of saint Iohn, as by all the process of this his present chapter of the order of their election/ that the elects never do no deadly sins. That is ye wot well as much to say, as that they do no such sins/ which done in such manner as they do them, be of their nature deadly/ that is to say such as if the person that doth them die before he repent them, he should be dampened for them.  
Now good christian readers the point considered that is in debate between us/ ye perceive very well that either must Tyndale take and understand deadly sin, for some other thing and in some other manner than all other men do, and otherwise then it is taken and understanden by the catholic church of Chryst against which he disputeth/ which manner of his disputation if he otherwise took it then his adversaries do, were on his part to shameful and foolish, as every man well seeth that any learning hath/ for then disputed he but upon the word and not upon the matter, which he will not I ween for very shame be so mad to do: or else if he take I say this word deadly sin as in deed he must needs do, than do you good readers I doughty not very well and clearly see, that Tyndals' tale of saint Peter his repentance and sorrow after his denynyenge of christ, nothing proveth Tyndales purpose/ which is and must be that saint Peter before his repentance, sinned not deadly at the time when he forswore christ.  
For Tyndale if he will prove that he did therein no deadly sin at the time/ it is nat enough for him to tell us that he repented after, and was by repentance restored to the state of salvation. But he must prove us that his forswearing of our saviour, yet should nat have letted him from salvation, all though he had forthwith upon that deed deceased without repentance, or any remembrance after of that sin.  
This should he prove us ye wot well/ & this ye see well he dissembleth. And to prove that saint Peter sinned nat deadly before/ he telleth us that he repented after. which is the very thing whereby it is declared in holy scripture, that his sin was grievous. For what was the thing he so repented/ but the sin of his denying. And therefore the more sorrowfully that he repented it, the more bitterly that he be wept and bewailed it, the more pain that he took for it/ the more himself showeth us the sore offence a●d heinous dedelynes thereof.  
And now cometh Tyndale on the other side/ and by the self same sorrow, would make men ween it was no deadly sin/ by which it specially doth appear the contrary.  
And than thus handling the matter, he is nat ashamed to tell us in conclusion, that we now see by this wise reason, that saint Peter his faith failed nat. whereof he hath as ye see proved us nothing/ but hath himself told us by plain express words the contrary, when he told us that th'apostles could nat for all the women's words, believe that Christ was risen/ nor well in a good while after, at the sight of our saviour himself.  
How be it all this he sayeth was no failing of Peter's faith, but an oppressing for the while/ as though I or any man else had any time said that Peter's faith feyled for ever.  
I say that it failed for the while, not for ever. And yet said I no ferther in my dialogue thereof, but that his lively faith failed for the while, because it wrought nat by love. But if his belief stood still/ it was a bare belief, barren of the fruit of charity/ with which it wrought not in the heart, when it brought nat forth the confession of Christ by the mouth.  
But marry Tindale hath said yet more/ and hath taken away from him boldly both quick faith and deed faith and all as for the while.  
In which point when Tyndale hath all done/ he can never while he liveth avoid it, but that in saying that there was a time in which the apostles could nat believe that Christ was arisen again, he is agreed with us as for the matter. For in those words he confesseth, that in that time their faith was fallen from them. But he striveth still with us upon the word, & will in no wise have that fall called failing, but amasing and astonyenge upon great occasions, & with the great burden oppressing.  
well than sith we be meetly well agreed together, Tyndale and I in the matter/ we will for this ones no longer debate about a word, and still dispute all day, whether falling may be called failing. But I am content to give it over, and let Tyndale have his will, & abide thereby still/ that though saint Peter did fall and his faith to, yet shall nat Tyndale be bounden to call that falling failing/ but amasing if he list, or estonyenge upon great occasions and by sore burden oppressing.  
And in like wise am I content, that if upon great occasion of a long weary way, with a deep mire and a great block in the bottom, Tyndals' horse happen under him first to snappre and stumble, and after that faint and fall down in the mire and tumble, and his master & he there lie together and jumble, till some good fellow help them up and bring them to an inn, where they tarry together till the horse be with meet and rest better grown in heart: let Tyndall for me when he rideth again, call his fall no failing nor no falling neither. But yet shall he never let other men to call it as it is.  
Now Tyndale yet after his fowl fall, dissymuling his overthrow as though no man saw it/ rially triumpheth and boasteth in this matter, that he hath in his chapter of the order of election, so well and wisely quit himself so like a pretty man. For joy and glory whereof, he finisheth his chapter with a pleasant proper taunt, wherein he taunteth me.  Tyndale. 
Therefore we need to seek no gloss for the text, that Chryst said to Peter how that his faith should nat fail. Yes sayeth master More, it failed in himself, but was reserved in our lady. But let us see the text and their gloze together. Chrys● sayeth Luke the xxii Simon Simon, Satan seeketh you to sift you as men sift wheat. But I have prayed for the that thy faith shall nat fail. wherefore when thou art come unto thyself again, strength thy brethren. Now put this wise gloze thereto, and see how they agree together: Simon, Satan seeketh to sift you as ●hete/ but I have praye● for the that my mother's faith shall nat fay●e. wherefore when thou art come to thyself again, according as my prayer hath obtained for the that my mother's faith shall nat fail, strength thy brethren. How say ye is nat this a proper text and well framed together? do ye nat think that there is as much wit in the heed of mad Colyns, as in the brains of such expositors.  More. 
Tyndall here good reder feeling his matter very fayn● and feeble, and that by reason, scripture, or other good authority, he neither can impugn his adversary nor defend himself/ would very fain walk away thus without any piece of his purpose proved, and make men ween all were won with his merry scoff.  
How be it if Tyndale had here rehearsed you my very words of my dialogue, as I am in such cases wont to rehearse his/ it would (and that he saw well) have made his quick merry scoff wax very dull and more than half deed/ as ye shall well perceive I trust, when I come to that place in the replyenge to his several answers made unto the chapters of my said work. whereunto I shall reserve the substance of mine answer to this wise cavillation of his, against mine exposition and better men's to than mine, of those words of our saviour spoken unto saint Peter, I have prayed for the that thy faith shall nat fail.  
But where as he can in no wise bear the comen opinion of good christian people, that the faith abode at any time only in our lady/ and therefore mocketh and maketh a gay game, that saint Peter's faith should be preserved in our lady, and that her faith should be his faith: I ween it will be no very great sotell thing to perceive, that the faith which saint Peter confessed, may both be his own in that he confessed it, and yet our ladies to in that she believed it/ and the thing also believed, is all one both in him and in her/ saving that it is hers in that she believeth it, and his in that he believeth it. And yet if he lost the belief thereof, it may be called still his/ understanding by that speaking, that he first confessed it. And therefore in good faith I can nat well see, wherefore we may nat say saint Peter's faith was in our lady, as well as we may say wyclyffes heresies are in Tyndall.  
And therefore, where for the salting and seasoning of his unsavoury scoff, he changeth and miss rehearseth my words, and the very words of Christ's gospel to/ and hath a pleasure to play between our lady and saint Peter, and to toss the faith like a tenies ball from the tone to the t'other, with fond words of his own foolish framing, nothing near to the matter when the place in my dialogue shallbe as it shall once be by god's grace, surely seen and examined: I trust to make you than see, that all his proper sporting wherein he playeth his pageant between saint Peter and our lady, may for any wit it hath, serve him for a pastime, if he sat sadly by frantycke Colyns and piked rushes in Betheleem. And happy were Tyndale, if he were as well recovered of his fransyes, as I trust in god Colyns is at this day of his.  
But yet reserving as I say the farther answer to mine other place, to which this matter much more apꝑtayneth: yet sith Tyndale sayeth here himself that the cause why no such gloze needeth to those words of our saviour, is because that saint Peter's faith never failed in his own person/ he confesseth thereby that if it ever at any time failed in his person, than at the le●te wise some gloze there needeth. And than dare I be bold to say, that if there any need/ the gloze than that he mocketh let him rehearse it right, is such as he will nat this five year find a better.  
But leaving that gloze as I say, till I come to my dialogue: yet to see in the mean while whether any gloze needed or none, sith Tyndale agreeth that there needed if the faith at any time failed in saint Peter/ I shall nat let for his pleasure ones again to search, whether the faith at any time failed in saint Peter or no.  
And to th'intent that we may deal well and plainly together/ let him & me first agree together, what the thing is whereupon we dispute. For he useth often when he is convicted, to say that he took this word or that word otherwise than we take him therein.  
Let us therefore first, because we speak of faith, here him declare what himself calleth faith.  
To this after that he saw himself shamefully confuted, concerning his heresy of faith alone sufficient for salvation/ he saith that he calleth not a deed faith any faith/ but he meaneth all way by faith, a very christian faith that hath the love therewith, by reason whereof it can not but work well.  
Now shall ye see how courteysely that I shall handle Tyndale. For all be it ye see well that I might by many means and many plain authorities, 
jacobi. 2.  as well of saint jamies as saint Poule, and the very gospel to, 
1. Corinth. 13.  convict him in that point/ as I have often done all ready: 
Gala. 5.  yet shall I for his pleasure let all that pass for this time, 
Matth. 2●.  and take faith as he saith he taketh it himself.  
But then ask I Tyndale this time, whither that in the time in which Peter forsook and forswore Chryst, he did believe with such a belief, that then wrought well with love. If he say ye/ then sith the work that he then wrought was the forsaking and forswearing of christ, it must needs follow that he saith, that the forsaking and forswearing of christ was a good work. And then will it thereupon follow, that sith saint Peter wept sorrowfully therefore, he was vere sorry and sore repent him that he had well wrought with love, and done a good work. So that I see no remedy, but that Tyndale must needs, be he never so loath, confess and graunth us, that saint Peter in that time did not believe with love that wrought well.  
Now thinketh me than that between Tyndale and me there lacketh now but one thing/ and that is what we call failing. For the better perceiving whereof I will ask Tyndale this.  
If saint Peter had hold on still in that forsaking and that perjury still all his life, & so finally died therein, and had yet for all that all the while believed in his heart all the articles of the true faith, & the contrary of all that he said, & not only railed no thing all the while against Chryst, but also loved him to, saving not so well but that he would rather forswear that ever he saw him, then to suffer pain & sorrow for him: I ask I say of Tyndale, if saint Peter had continued his life & died in this state, had not then at no time in his life his faith that Tindale calleth faith, that is to say his belief with well working love failed him? if he say no/ them will it follow upon Tindals' word, that there may be many faithful folk with a well working love, eternally dampened in hell/ except it be false that our saviour saith, He that denieth me before the world, I will deny him before the angels of god/ and he that will save his life, 
Lucae. 12.  in this world shall lose it. 
Ma●ci. 8.   
The most part I suppose that of the christian people shall be dampened/ the cause of their damnation shall be, that where as they believe right and love god also, so far forth as he will let them live as they list and make merry, and bind them to nothing that they have no lust to do/ love him not yet so sufficiently, as for the love that they bear him, they will rather forbear the pleasures of their life/ and also rather die then deadly to displease him, by the doing of any such thing as he will rather that they shall die then do it.  
Now see I therefore no remedy, but that Tyndale must needs agree, that if saint Peter had in such state lived and died/ his faith well working by love had failed him.  
Then sith it had then in sometime at the lest wise failed him/ let us divide that time of that state of his from his first denye●ge and forswearing, unto the very minute of his dying, supposing to continue still and die to in the same state, into five equal parts if it please him/ and than have we five times all of one fashion/ to which five times Tyndale if it please him may give names to, and call them A, B, C, D, E.  
Now say I than, sith Tyndale must needs agree that n● some of these five times Peter's faith failed/ I ask in which of them. whereto sith they be all five of one fashion concerning his faith, he must needs grant that in all five it failed him.  
Let us now then somewhat change our case, from that that might have been in to that that was in deed. And after that Peter's faith had failed in the three first times, that is to say those that are named ABC parts of the hole time, whereof ABCDE were all the parts/ let us put, that in the fourth part chyche we called D, Peter re●ented by help of god's gr●ce, thorough the mean of Christ's foresaid prayoure/ and th●t his l●●ynge belief so came to him again in that ●yme why●h we ●●lled D/ and that he would ever after ●ather suffer ten times to die, than once to forsake god again.  
Now ask I Tyndale whether y● not failing of his faith now in the latter parts of his time, that is to wit in D & E/ doth now make it true that his faith faileth him not before, while it failed him in deed in the three former times ABC the three parts of his hole time ABCDE.  
Now what Tyndale must needs answer unto this, he can tell well enough I warrant, when he looketh in his card upon those letters in his cross row. For there he must needs see, that though his faith faileth never after while it failed not/ yet before while it failed, it nailed ꝑde. whereof the proof is so plain upon his cross row that he must needs see it.  
Now if Tyndale would wynk at these letters like a wanton lad that no man could make him look up: yet shall I show you that he hath red them all ready, & spied full well that Peter sinned deadly/ & like a shrewd wily lad hath scraped it out of his book.  
For ye wot well that in those words of our saviour unto saint Peter, he saith unto him: And thou after that thou shalt be converted, confirm thou and make strong thy brethren. As though he might say, I have prayed for the that thy faith shall not finally fail. But though it ●ayle for a time by forsaking of me, as I tell the tru●ly thou shalt thrice do ere the cock crow/ yet shall it come in to the again, by the mean of my prayer. And therefore when thou shalt be converted again, that is to wit after that thy lively faith fallen and failing for the time, and thou thereby turned fro me to my enemy thorough forsaking & forswearing me, for deadly sinful dread of bodily death/ after this ●●en thou shalt I say by mine help and mean of my prayer, with applying of thine own will therewith, have gotten grace and repent, and attained they faith again, and be thy sel●e converted and turned from mine enemy unto me again/ then do thou confirm and strength thy brethren.  
Now see for god's sake where Tyndale hath scraped out and altered one word/ in which one word standeth the making and marring of all the hole matter.  
For where as our saviour said, when thou art once converted, than strength thou thy brethren/ Tyndale putteth out cunuerted, and maketh our saviour say, when thou art come to thyself again, then strength thou thy brethren.  
And ●here as he in his translation had put in this word converted/ yet because he said here before in this chapyter, that the apostles we●e not by failing of their faith, nor by any dedely sin turned in any wise at any time from god/ but were only a●●sed and astonied and passed all remembrance: therefore he ●●w hath put out here this word converted, which syg●yfyeth a turny●ge to god, and therein doth ever imply a turning away fro god before/ & hath putt● in the stead thereof these words, comen again to thyself/ to make it agree with his other words, ama●ed, astonied, an● forgetting of themself, which himself said of them before.  
Now this ye s● good readers very well, that though we g●aun●● unto Tyndale that a man may be turned to good, & turned to be bad, and turned to virtue, & turned to vice, turned to god, and turned t● the devil to/ yet where so ever in the scripture that word turned standeth so alone, it is ever taken for turning unto god. And specially the word converted, which is the word that he hath changed/ where so ever in scripture it so standeth alone, is never taken for turning of a man unto him self but unto god. For in turning to himself, he may turn from god unto the devil/ as Lucyfer by turning to himself, turned to the devil.  
And now ye see that Tyndale to make the gospel seem to agree with his heresy, changeth in his exposition the very chief effectual word, whereupon the pith of all the matter hangeth. I will not therefore ask ye now the question that Tyndale doth, whither ye think not as much wit in the head of mad Colyns as in the brains of such an exposytour. But out of question, I ween ●●●wyse men think that the same devil or his mate that made Colyns mad/ hath sucked out the bray●● of this exposytoure, & blown his empty scalp full of busy frantyke heresies.  
For else would he never for shame speak of that foolish heresy, that none elect at any time doth deadly sin/ which thing he seeth so plainly reproved by the scripture/ and except a very ●ew heretics, else, by the agreement I ween of all the hole people of the world both christian and heathen to, as many as believe the soul to be immort●●●●  
And yet is it a better sport to see, how in the very point in which he weeneth himself to deal the most wilily, therein uttereth he his folly most foolishly.  
For where as all his purpose of this chapter of the order of our election, is only to prove that none elect at any time sinneth deadly: even in the very last end there of● where he weeneth lest, where he weeneth himself to sit surest in the chair of his glorious triumph, and most merely mocketh and scoffeth at his adversary/ even there in his false exposition of this text of scripture, And thou being ones converted confirm and strength thy brethren/ by his unwise wily change of this word converted in to, comen to himself/ he is fallen from himself and perceived nat that he that change hath made every man well perceive, that himself when he so changed that word perceived very well, that the word converted, that is to god turned again, proved clearly that saint Peter was o●es from god averted, and sinfully turned away. And therefore hath he by that wily change, even in the very last end of his chapter, with his own witness against his own purpose, all his whole matter perverted, & quite over turned and over thrown his triumphant charyotte/ and with the very words of his merry mock, laid all his matter in the mire.   

¶ The recapitulation of all Tyndalles process concerning the church, from the beginning hitherto.  
FOr now shall you good readers understand, that as concerning his declaration what is the church, here his whole process endeth. And willing that we should now ween, that he had well declared and proved us which is the very church: he now beginneth after this chapter another new matter/ that is to wit to prove that the comen known catholic church, is nat the church.  
And therefore sith here is an end of his own part/ it is necessary that we briefly gather together and consider, what thing he hath proved us therein, or at the lest (for proved hath he nothing) what thing he hath told us therein from the beginning hitherto.  
Remember first good readers, that the occasion of his book, is for answer of my dialogue/ wherein I speak of the church, by which we be and must be taught and informed. And I show there that it is the comen known catholic church of all christian people, neither gone out nor put out/ and that the doctrine of this church is sure, & can nat err in any thing necessary to salvation. which thing I there sufficiently do prove.  
Now cometh Tyndall, to teach us that the church is another church which he will show you, and nat the church thate I told yo●. And whether the church that he showeth you can err or not, he will tell you. And therefore he maketh the title of this book, what is the church, and whether it may err or nat/ wherein hearken well now what he hath hitherto taught you.  
first he told us in the beginning, that this word church hath divers significations/ among which at last he bethought him upon twain. One a general significations, by which it is taken for all that embrace the name of christ, thought their faiths be nought, or though they have no faith at all.  
Another, by which it specially signifieth only the elects/ in whose hearts god hath written his law with his holy spirit, and gylen them a feeling faith of the mercy that is in Christ jesus our lord.  
All his other significations I let pass, as things nat properly pertaining to this present question of the catholic church/ except only that which he hath also defined false, that is to wit the particular churches of every christian country/ which be nat as Tyndall there taketh them, all the people in the town or the country christian or heathen or open professed heretics, but only such as are the parts of the catholic church.  
But in all his declarations of all the significations/ he hath as ye have seen in my first part of this work, neither rehearsed them all, nor taken ●yght almost any one of these that he hath rehearsed.  
For letting as I say the remanant pass as now nat pertinent properly to this matter, & reproved in mine fyr●te part of this work: of these two last significations hath he done his part in neither nother/ but hath as I there showed, lift out the chief significations of all, and whereupon all the matter most especially dependeth/ that is to wit the catholic church of Christ of all true christian people.  
For as touching the first of his two last, if he will say that he meant that for the catholic church, than I say that he defamed it false. For the general catholic church is nat the number of all the embrace the name of Christ, whether they have faith true or false, any faith or none.  
For heretics such as Luther is, and zwinglius, and wyclyffe, and himself, that first wilfully leave and forsake the catholic church and the catholic faith thereof, and be therefore after precyded and cut of there fro, and cast out thereof/ neither be nor never have been accounted, either in the church or of the church/ though they still call themself christian men, and embrace his name, casting of the truth of his faith and fighting against good works by sects dissolving the unity, and being separate from the society of the catholic church.  
Than as touching the second signification of the only elects, which is the church whereof he ●abereth in all this work/ and would have it only taken for the church of Christ milytaunte here in earth: let us consider orderly from the beginning to the end, what he telleth us thereof, and to what wise end at last he bringeth all his purpose.  
Aft●r his defence of his translation very fondly defended, to prove us that the church is only the number of elects/ in whose har●es god hath written his law, & given them a feeling faith of the mercy that is in Christ jesus our lord: he first moveth a question of his own ●euysynge, whether the word were ●efore the church or the church before the word/ as though that question had in such wise been pu● by us, and that we had affirmed the church to be before the word●.  
There with scoffs and mo●kes he concludeth against us, that the word was before the church/ whereof never no man said the contrary.  
But that the written word was before the church, which was the thing that himself had said and mente, and which e●er was an● is his principal ground and foundation, whereof we had said and yet say the contrary thereof/ in all that chapter neither any thing proveth he, nor any thing so much as speaketh. And so that chapter nothing at all to purpose.  
More over, sith he bringeth forth that chapter, for the proof that the only elects be the church, for there about goeth all his matter/ and well ye wot the word of god both written and unwritten, may be and is believed both of the elects and of the not elected: therefore is also that chapter nothing at all to purpose.  
Finally sith he speaketh of the law written by the spirit of god in the heart/ now sith that law so written there, is rather the word of god unwritten, than his word written in the books of the scripture that we have/ of which words only, Tyndale maketh all his matter, and abhorreth every word that god would either speak or write beside the scripture that we have all ready: this chapter of Tyndals nat only nothing maketh for his purpose, but also rather seemeth greatly to make against it.  
Than goeth he forth with his other chapter, wherein he laboureth to prove that the apostles left nothing unwritten that were necessary to salvation/ meaning that we be bounden to believe nothing, but only that that they have written/ & that (as Tyndals master Martin Luther sayeth) evidently and plainly written. wherein who so consider what I have answered him/ shall I trust well perceive that it had been better for him to have left that matter untouched.  
For both is his purpose on his part unproved, and the contrary to him proved/ beside that it is in many places proved, that the sacraments which he reproveth be written in the scripture in de●●.  
How be it he cor●ecteth and amendeth therefore his doctrine of that chapter, 〈◊〉 another chapter after. For where as in the former chapter, he t●c●eth that we be bounden to believe nothing of necessity, but only that that is written in the scripture: yet ●este we should be thereby concerning our belief, over ●●●●●tely restrained of our evangelical liberty/ he bethynketh himself better/ and in his other chapter after he teacheth us that we be nat of necessity bounden to believe all that neither/ but so that we believe the promises, we may be saved well enough he sayeth, believing nat other things written even in the very gospel itself.  
This is his doctrine in his chapter/ where he teacheth us that the church may err and that yet it can nat err/ saving that suddenly unware he confesseth even there the contrary.  
then cometh he forth in his chapter with this question, whether the church can err or not. And there he first sayeth, that this comen known catholic church both may err and doth err/ and proveth it by his bare word. And than he showeth what himself calleth the elect church/ and sayeth that it is the whole multitude of all repenting sinners that believe in christ, and put all their trust and confidence in the mercy of god/ feeling in their hearts that god for Christ's sake loveth them, and will be or rather is merciful unto them, and forgiveth their sins of which they repent, and all the motions unto sin, of which they fear that they shallbe drawn into sin again/ and this they believe and feel without any respect of their own deserving and only for the respect of god's truth and promise.  
Than goeth he forth, and boasteth highly this manner of feeling faith that is heresies in stead of faith, as I have in mine answer proved/ and therein he spendeth up that chapter.  
But yet though he thus describe the elect church: yet doth he nat prove that this is the church which we must here and obey. For god hath commanded us to complain to the church, and here the church, and obey the church. And therefore though we agreed every thing that he sayeth in his chapter/ he had yet sith his elects are unknown, proved thereby no piece of his principal purpose, that is to wit which is the church.  
Also where his title of that chapter is, whither the church may err: Tyndale saying that the catholic church may err/ whither the elect church which himself taketh for the church may err or not, he saith not in all that chapter any one word. And so is his chapter neither any thing toward his principal purpose/ nor yet, which is more shame for him, any thing containeth in it belonging to the matter of the title.  
Then cometh he forth with his other chapter that a true member of Christ's church sinneth not, and is yet for all that a sinner. which chapter besides that it is but a fond riddle, with nothing but a heap of foolish heresies as I have proved: yet is it also toward the matter, that is to wit which is the church, nothing to the purpose at all/ for as moche as though he sayeth that they can do no deadly sin, yet he confesseth that they may do such horrible deeds as must needs make them be taken for the children of the devil.  
After cometh his other goodly riddle, that a christian man can nat err and how he may yet err. And therein he telleth us as I have before showed you, that the elects can nat err in the promises of god/ & as for all other errors, none can (he sayeth) be damnable to them, though the contrary of their error be written in the very gospel.  
By which doctrine of his ye may see, that errors of doctrine in manner of living Tyndale taketh for a small matter, because they be no promises of god. And therefore is Tyndale nat greatly to be believed, when he teacheth us that freres may wed nuns/ because it is no promise of god, but a promise of the frere to the nun, & of the nun to the frere, each of them wedded and bedded with other, and both twain wedded and bedded with the devil.  
yet ye see well that this chapter if it were all as trew● as it is all false/ proveth yet no thing which is the church. where as he should fayste have proved that the elects only be the church, and then after search whither they can err or not.  
Then cometh he forth with his other chapyter● that the faith which he hath before describe, is ever fought withal. But in the elects it is in such wise inexpugnable, that when they once have it, it can never at any time after fail.  
Now this great conclusion whereof he maketh this chapter is such, that as ye see well thereupon dependeth many great matters. yet doth he not in all this chapter bring forth any manner thing for the proof, either reason, scripture, or other authority/ but only by his own bare word, telleth us that it is so. Now if he told us a thing well known or commonly believed, I should not blame him. But now to tell us such a thing so strange, and unto every man save himself so inopynable, & such as no man would ween were likely to be true, & bid us so boldly believe it, and save his own bare worshipful word tell us no cause why: it is either a point of a man more authorized than an apostle, or else less witted than a very fool.  
Finally cometh he forth at last with his chapter, of which he calleth the manner & order of our election.  
Therein he telleth us concerning elects, and the order of their choosing, that god doth first chose them, and after calleth them, & teacheth them, & maketh them see their damnation in the law & mercy laid up for them in him, and what he will have them do. And then they chose god again & submit themself to his laws to walk in them. And that thing he saith the man doth of necessity, because his will can do none other/ but his wit must needs see the things that god maketh him see, & his will must needs agree to follow so the thing that his wit s●eth.  
Then he telleth us that the mercy of god allway waiteth upon the elect/ by reason whereof he can never so fall, but that he shall rise again. But yet he showeth us further, that for all this the elect sinketh down sometime, & falleth into trances and sleeps, by which he forgetteth himself, and then doth divers horrible & abominable deeds in his sleep. But yet in all his horrible deeds he doth no deadly sin, because he doth them all of frailty and infirmity, and none of them of purpose or willingly. For willingly can he not do them, because he lieth a sleep/ nor in all the while his faith never faileth at any tyme. And this he proveth us by thensamples of king david, and saint Peter, and saint Thomas of Ind, and the other apostles. For there was he saith none of these that in all that ever we read in the scripture reproved in their deeds, as adultery manslaughter, not byleuyn●, forsaking, or forswearing of god/ that ever was any deadly sin yet, or any failing of faith at any time while they did it. And this he nothing proveth but telleth, and looketh that for the worship of his bare word, we should believe it.  
And here is all Tyndals hole tale, that he hath from the beginning hitherto told us/ whereby we should learn of him which is the church, and whither the church may err or not. In all which who so look it thorough & mine answer therewith/ shall well perceive that he hath not in all his hole process half a leaf together nor almost half a line, without one great folly at the lest, or else a lie and an half.  
Consider now that of his elects, which is of his words much a do to perceive, they be so dark and so intryked of purpose without any dependence or order/ yet in the end when all is gathered to guider and advised well, this is the hole sum, that god chooseth a certain whom he liketh. And when he chooseth them Tyndale telleth not, whither before the world made, or after themself borne. But unto them he sendeth forth, & calleth them, & them he giveth a feeling faith, whereby they feel surely that they shall be saved, without any regard of good works/ and than they chose him again, & agree to walk in his laws. But before their feeling faith had, they never once think upon him.  
For as for any endeavour of themself at gods good motion toward the faith, they do no more he saith than doth the child toward the getting of his own father. And his mercy waiteth ever upon them. And their faith doth never at any time fail them/ nor they do never sin deadly, what horrible & abominable ●edes so ever they do.  
And sith these folk that are tyndal's elects, have or ween they have, such a feeling faith, that thereby they feel or else ween they feel that they can not be dampened/ but have here learned of Tyndale now, that what horrible deeds so ever they do, they can never do dadely sin/ and be also very sure to repent, and the● to be never punished in hell, purgatory, nor in this life neither. (For so far saith Tyndale now) but with a short repentance after long dying in sin, saying ones christ help for the manner sake, as it were after a sneezing/ the fre●ys may from the nuns beds sty even up straight to heaven: they may therefore be ●olde & hardy & hardly so they be, to fall to what works they will. For sith their faith is both full of false heresies, & also can never fail them/ they may make themself sure you see well, that they shall be no worse pard, not when they be at the very worst, then faithful harlots, faithful auo●trers, faithful vowbrekers, faithful thiefs, faithful murders, faithful traitors to men, and faithful heretics to god.  
And these be as ye see now Tyndal's special elects/ which only number by his high spiritual doctrine, he would we should take for the church.  
Now good christian readers if we would grant unto Tyndale, that all his lies were true that he hath made in all this hole process of his unto the end: yet were he far from the proving of his principal purpose, that is to tell us and teach us which is the church/ toward the teaching whereof he hath no thing else done, but only given us two definitions. Of which so declared as they be, neither nother is sufficient for his purpose/ and yet the second much less than the first.  
For where as in the first he defineth it to be only the elects, in whose hearts god hath written his law with his holy spirit, and given them a feeling faith of the mercy that is in christ jesus our lord: afterward in the second he saith that it is the hole multitude of all repenting sinners, that believe in Chryst, and put all their trust and confidence in the mercy of god/ feeling in their hearts that god for Christ's sake loveth them, and will be or rather is, merciful unto them, and forgiveth them their sins of which they repent, and all the motions unto sin, of which they fear that they shall be drawn into sin again/ and thus they believe and feel without any respect of their own deserving, ye and for none other cause, then that the merciful troth of god the father which can not lie, hath so promised and sworn,  
Now ye remember that Tyndale hath put you by the way, two special great heresies. One that who so ever after baptism ●ynneth once of purpose and willingly, shall never have remission after. The t'other, that who so have once his feeling faith, can never sin deadly after.  
Let us now see in the end, beside that these heresies of his be all ready otherwise impugned and reproved: let us yet further see how his definition of the church and his heresies, will iumpre and agre together among themself.  
And first I ask Tyndale, whither he that have ones after his baptism sinned of purpose and willingly, and set maliciously thereto/ may after by gods help repent again that ever he s● did/ and believe therewithal, that he is bounden to believe and love god and his neighbours as god biddeth ●ym to do. May he after such a sin done, do this by go●des help o● not?  
Tyndale will peradventure say he may not. Then I ask him how he proveth that. Thereto peradventure he will say that the words of saint Poule, 
Mat●hei. 17.  
Hebr●. 6.  It is impossybl● that they which have once been illumined etc. and the wo●des of our saviour himself spoken of the sin of blasphemy against the holy ghost, do prou● it/ which I will then deny. For those places taking them as falsely as any heretic can construe them, say yet at the uttermost no more but that his sin shall never be forgiven him/ and saith not that he shall never again repent, nor that he shall never well believe, nor that he shall never after love god nor his neighbour.  
whereunto if Tyndale will say, that if he might come to very repentance and very belief and love, he needs must have his sins remitted and be saved/ and sith god sayeth he shall never be forgiven, and so never saved, he saith he shall ne●er so repent and believe and love: to that I answer Tyndale two things. One that god in all his threats reserveth his special prerogative of his mercy, by which his absolute power is never bounden under any rule of his ordinary justice. secondly I say, that for as much as those wo●des be ●ynatory and threats they be all of troth none otherwise to be understanden, then except he repent. As god himself plainly exponed 〈…〉 such wo●●es by the mouth of his own holy prophet Ezechiel/ saynge● Though I should say to a sinner, 
Ezechiel. 33.  thou shalt die/ and the same ●ynner repent him of his sin, and deal justly and ryghtuousely, and deliver again the pledge, and make restitution of the ●o●bery th●● he hath committed, and walk in the commandments of life, and 〈…〉 vn●yght●ouse thing: he shall live in life, 〈◊〉 shall 〈…〉. Of all his sins none shall be laid to his charge● He 〈◊〉 dealt justly, and ryght●ously he shall live in life.  
 
〈…〉 ye, he destroyeth his heresy/ for than he granteth that he which after baptism sinneth maliciously, may for all that be saved. If he say nay, than he destroyeth his definition/ for than may there be some repentant sinners with all that ever in his definition followeth, and yet they shallbe none of the church of his elects.  
And thus must either his heresy destroy his definition, or his definition must destroy his heresy. Of which twain yet it will be more honesty for him to keep his definition still, whereupon all his whole matter hangeth/ and let his heresy go to the devil that gave it to him/ & than understand those places of scripture whereupon the devil taught him to ground it, that either the blasphemy against the holy ghost is final impenitence, and the t'other no restitution by the penance to the revocation of baptism/ or else that the sore words of the both places after a certain vehement manner of speech used in holy scripture, sometime signifieth only great hardness and difficulty, & nat as himself teacheth us, an utter impossybilyte of remission. But now let us see how his definition will stand with his second heresy.  
you see well and perceive, that in his second definition he restraineth his elect church, unto only repentant sinners that believe as himself showeth you.  
And than hath he confessed unto you, that his chosen elects plainly do sometime abominable deeds/ which deeds yet they repent nat alway, till the rage be passed/ and till as Tyndale saith that they ha●e played out their lusts/ ye and sometime to, till the ●olde fear of death turn them to give an ear to good counsel. Now see you than very well, that they be by tyndal's second definition, all this while expressly put out of ●he church, till they repent again. And than consider ferther, how far against all reason.  
ye remember very well I wot well, that he teacheth us plainly, that none of his elects doth at any time sin deadly, though their deeds be never so horrible and abominable, because of their feeling faith which can neither at any time fail, nor suffer any of their horrible deeds, to be deadly sin. And therefore are they consequently never out of the favour of god, nat even in the time wherein they do their horrible and abom ynable deeds, and before the repenting of them, which may be ye wot well many times long between. In all which time they be by Tyndall out of all deadly sin/ and therefore good folk and faithful and gods good children still.  
And therefore sith they be so/ wherefore doth Tyndale that is in some places so angry with that catholic church, for the putting out of evil folk by excommunication/ excommunicate good folk now & put out of his elect church himself & faithful/ and finally such as though they be fallen a sleep in lechery, theft, sacrilege, incest, & murder, stand yet highly still in gods especial grace & favour.  
Now the faults that are common to both his definitions, and yet more open in the second than in the first/ I shall nat need to rehearse you. For both have I touched some of them before, and also many of them be to every good christian man so open at his eye, that he can need none other way to give him warning of them.  
For where all his elects depend upon his feeling faith and his repentance/ while himself showeth what false articles he teacheth his elects for their faith every good faithful man very well feeleth, that the more that tyndal's elects feel his false faith, the less faith have they, and the more faithless be they.  
And when he teacheth them to repent the right belief of Christ's sacraments, and therein the right rule and order of repentance: every true repentant person well perceiveth, that Tyndals' repentant elects, abhorring from shrift, and rejecting the sacrament of penaunce●but if they mend and repent better, will in stead of purgatory which they now mock and jest at, weep and repent in ●ell this foolish fruitless fashion of their impenitent repentance.  
But now suppose that all were very well that Tyndale here hath said/ yet how hath he with all that proved his purpose? He hath told us that the whole multitude of his fassyoned elects is the church. But what one word hath he told us toward the proof? neither reason nor one authority of any old holy saint, nor any one text of scripture/ but only one or twain such as nothing maketh for his matter, but utterly clear against him.  
And therefore though we grant unto him, that the whole multitude not of his false framed elects, but of the very final elects, be a church of Christ/ as he doth and must grant unto us, that the whole multitude of christian people nat gone out nor put out is a church of christ/ of which the church of very elects be, though the better part, yet a part and but a part, and peradventure the less part/ and Tyndals elects, either no part or but a part, and the very worst part: yet that the only elects though they be a church, be the church (which is the thing that he should prove) that hath he neither proved nor any thing brought effectual toward the proof, no more than if he never had meant it nor thought it.  
And therefore now hath he nothing proved which is the church/ though we would yet of our courtesy ferther grant him, that all his whole heresies were the very faith/ and that the very elects were only those, in whose hearts the devil hath written his law/ or else (which were yet far worse) that the very elects were only those, in whose holy hearts god had himself so written his will with his holy spirit, that they should thereby feel that spiritual folk should please god with waxing flesshelye, and freres with wedding nuns/ and that if they would be saved, they ●●ulde have therein no respect unto good works, but think that only faith in the promise and bare repentance without shrift or penance shall sufficiently save them/ so that they believe sure that all the seven sacraments serve of nothing, but be but bare signs and tokens, and utterly as graceless as themself are witless/ and specially, so that they believe that the blessed body nor blood of Christ be nat in the sacrament of the altar, nor that they do none other honour in no wise thereto, but only believe & remember that there is nothing but a meyneyall of his passion in a cup of wine and a gobbet of cake breed/ and yet in doubt and question whether it be breed or sterche. And than that with this godly belief they see surely to themself, that they serve no saints, but rail upon their relics, and dispyce their images, and there with the crucifix to, and the holy cross itself also/ and than lest they might hap to lose an hole day in god's seriuce, keep themself well & warily from all holy days, and specially (for so these heretics in their books call it) from the foolish fast of lent. And thus living, and therewith believing these aforesaid heresies, so firmly that they think verily they feel their false faith with their very fingers ends/ be bold than hardly, and believe verily that their feeling faith shall never fail them/ but at all times so preserve them, that they can nat only never be dampened, but over that can never do deadly sin, though they do never so many devilish deeds/ but for all their falsehood, theft, adultery, vow breaking, treason, murder, incest, & perjury, shall for their only feeling faith be good and faithful false faithless wretches, and therefore god almighty his own mynyons still.  
And thus good christian readers, sith ye now plainly perceive, that Tyndale hath here for his own part no thing proved us that his false framed elects, nor yet that only the very true elects be the church of Chryst in earth, nor hath nothing showed us which is/ & therefore only with all his long process, uttered and taught his errors and his heresies/ and left the matter nat unproved only, but untouched to, which he took upon him and professed to prove, that is to wit which is the church/ but as though he had well and plainly proved it which he hath nat so much almost as spoken of, leaveth of his own part now and turneth him to impugn ours: I shall leave him for his part a while in the mire, in which himself hath overthrown his matter/ and shall show you shortly how angrily he riseth up, and rially rayed in dirt, because he can nat prove the church of Christ here in earth to be a congregation unknown, layeth his miry hands upon the known catholic church of christ, and fain would pull that down to● and so leave no church at all.   
Here endeth the fourth book.   

¶ The fifth book, of the confutation of Tyndals' answer.  

Answer unto the chapter of Tyndale, in which he would prove that the known catholic church is not the church. whither the known catholic church can be the church.  
YE have all ready good christian readers well seen and perceived, that Tyndale hath in a long process laboured to prove you, that the church of christ is another company than the known catholic company of all christian regions/ that is to wit a certain secret scattered congregation unknown to all the world beside, and to their own fellows to/ and every man by his inward feeling not only known only to himself, but also so well and surely known unto himself for a virtuous good and faithful final elect of god, that he is in himself very certain and sure that he can not be but saved/ and that he so hath the spirit of god imprisoned in his breast and so fast fetered in his holy heart, whereof himself hath lost the kayeá, that neither the spirit can creep out nor himself let him out by no manner mean/ but there must the spirit abide and so preserve and keep that special chosen creature, that he suffer him to do many great abominable horrible devilish deeds, but yet never suffer him in no wise to do any deadly sin.  
This I say ye have all ready seen, that Tyndale hath by a long process laboured much to prove us/ and hath in conclusion not only no thing proved us thereof, but hath in stead of feeling faithful folk, brought us forth such a sort, as never was there pudding stuffed so full of farsing, as his holy feeling faithful folk are farsed full of heresies.  
wherefore saying that for the very church of christ here in earth, which god hath and ever shall instruct and preserve in his true faith and out of the faith of which church shall neither be true faith hope nor cherite/ he can when he hath all done find out none other, than this common known catholic church of all christian people, neither of malice gone out nor for obstinacy put out/ of which common known catholic church, all the good and true penitent elects be partners in faith: saying I say that he can prove none other church, he now goeth about to disprove that church to/ whereby we may well perceive that he goeth not about to find out the church, but rather to make men to ween that there were no church at all.  
About this purpose useth he now this order. first in one chapter he taketh upon him to prove that the known catholic church is not the church of christ.  
afterward in his other chapters following, he pretendeth to answer and soil the reasons, with which it is proved that the known catholic church is the church of christ, and that none of these sects of heretics be.  
And yet pretending as I say that he will soil all the reasons of the other side/ of so many as there are he toucheth only twain/ and yet those twain how simple he soileth, that shall you after se.  
Let us now go to Tyndals first point/ which point in his first chapter how falsely he handleth and how far fro the point, it is even a world to se. For first he maketh the title before his chapter in this wise.  Tyndale. 
Whither the pope and his sect be Crystes church or no.  More. 
well ye wot good christian readers, that I (whose dialogue in the beginning of his work he professeth himself with all his hole book to answer) have in places enough well and plainly declared, that I call the church of christ the catholic known church of all christian nations, neither gone out nor cut of. And all be it that all these nations now do and long have done, recognized & knowledged the pope, not as the bishop of rome but as the successor of saint Peter, to be their chief spiritual governor under god, and Christ's vicar in earth/ and so do not only we call him but Tyndal's own fellow frere Barns to: yet died I never put the pope for part of the definition of the church, dyffyning the church to be the common known congregation of all christian nations under one head the pope.  
Thus did I never define the church/ but purposely declined therefro, because I would not intryke & entangle the matter with two questions at once. For I wist very well that the church being proved this common known catholic congregation of all christian nations, abiding together in one faith, neither fallen of nor cut of: there might be peradventure made a second question after y●, whither over all that catholic church the pope must needs be head and chief governor or chief spiritual shepherd/ or else that the unyon of faith standing among them all, every province might have their own chief spiritual governor over itself, without any recourse unto the pope, or any superiority recognized to any other outward person.  
And then if the pope were or no pope/ but as I say provincial patriarchs, arbysshoppes, or metropolytanes, or by what name so ever the thing were called: what authority & what power either he or they should have among the people, these things well I wist would raise among many men many more questions than one. For the avoiding of all intrycacyon whereof/ I purposely forbore to put in the pope as part of the definition of the church, as a thing that needed not/ sith if he be the necessary head, he is included in the name of the hole body. And whither he be or not/ if it be brought in question, were a matter to be treated and disputed beside.  
And therefore may y● good christian readers see, that Tyndale which in this point will in no wise perceive me, but maketh the title of his chapter whither the pope and his sect be Christ's church or no/ laboureth to i'll fro the light, and hide his head in the dark, and confound the matter with two, questions at once.  
Now is not the title of his chapter so synystrely written and wried away from the point/ but the beginning of his chapter itself, is much worse and further wrested wrong. For lo thus he beginneth.  Tyndale. 
That the pope and his spirits be not the church may this wise be proved.  More. 
Lo before in the title he made his question of the pope and his sect, which question as I have showed you he framed far from the matter/ and sith those people which Tyndale calleth the pope's sect (by which name he meaneth all that profess the common catholic faith) be all the nations chrystened, except a few late fallen to Luther, wyclyffe, frere Huskyn, and zuynglius: how fyttly he useth his terms in calling all the body a sect, which he might as well call a schism, for both signify a cutting of from the hole church/ and then as well he may and so doth he soon after, call the heretics the church/ and therein calleth he both twain as properly, as if he would cut of a cantle or a gobbet from an hole loaf, and then call the cantle a loaf and the loaf a cantle.  
But where as before in the title he made as I say his question of the pope and his sect/ here he turneth it into the pope and his spirits. In which except he call spirits in mock & scorn/ all christian nations besides those corners that profess themself for heretics/ he must needs mean here by his scornful name of spirits, only the pope and the spirituality/ and than goeth he yet much further fro me with whom he should cope. For I call ever the church which his part is here to impugn, not the spirituality only, but the hole corpse and body of spiritual and temporal to.  
And Tyndale very well woteth, that the spirituality so farforth doth account not themself alone but the temporalty, and themself together for the catholic church/ that there is not so poor a frere, but he professyth it almost in every sermone. In which when he exhorteth his audience to pray for the church, he saith not ye shall pray for the spirituality alone/ but ye shall saith he pray for the three estates of holy church, that is to wit the spiritualty the temporalty and the souls that be in purgatory. For though they be departed out of our company, yet them count we still for viagers and pylgrymmes in the same pilgrimage that we be toward the same place of rest and wealth that we walk, till they be passed ones all the pain of their journey, and entered into the bless of heaven.  
Now it is a great shame for Tyndale to fly fro the point as he doth, in a matter so plain and open, that every child may see how loath he is to come near and cope.  
But Tyndale hath all ready riden so many shrewd courses, in which he hath had such buffets, that he hath almost broken his horses back and his own to/ that now neither is there bear nor heretic more loath to come to the stake, than Tyndale to come near the tilt.  
And therefore drawing a side and flitting from the church, that is to wit from the hole multitude of all christian nations spiritual and temporal both, which is the tilt by which he hath to run: he standythe still at the tyltes end tympering and tempering about his harness, and will no further than the spirituality/ but putteth of his helmet and doth on a fool's hood, and from jousting falleth to jesting, to do the people pleasure, and drive away the matter with making of mocks and mows. For now lo shall we peruse his proves. Lo this wise reason he bringeth in the first.  Tyndale. 
That the pope and his spirits be not the church, may thy● wy●e be proved. He that hath no faith to be saved thorough christ, is not of Crystes church. The pope grieveth not to be saved thorough christ. For he teacheth to trust in holy works for the remys●yon of sins and sa●uacy●n/ as in the works of penance enjoined, in vows, in pilgrimage, in ch●styte, in other men's prayers and holy living, in freres and freres coats, in saints merits. And the significations put out/ he teacheth to believe in the deeds of the ceremonies, and of the sacrament; ordained at the beginning, to preach unto us and to do us service/ and not that we should believe in them and serve them. And a thousand such superstycy●usnesse setteth he before us in stead of christ, to believe in neither christ nor god's word, neither honourable to god nor serviceable unto our neighbour, nor profitable unto ourselves for the taming of the flesh, which all are the denying of Crystes blood.  More. 
Some man would here peradventure say to Tyndale, that he playeth in this point the very foolish dysour, for the fault of the man to rail upon the office/ considering that all be it there have pope's been that have evil played their parts, yet have there been pope's again right holy men saints and martyrs to/ and therefore in jesting thus upon a good office for an evil office, he can lack no matter of railing, but may run out in his ribaldry at large, and say that all the hole world must leave of all manner of offices, and neither have pope, emperor, king, consellor, mayre, sheriff, nor alderman to govern or rule the commons, nor yet any man in his own house steward, cater, pantler, butler, or cook. For among all these offices there can be founden none, that hath not had ere this many an ill man in the room.  
Therefore would some man think I say, that Tyndals railing here upon the pope were all run out of reason, though that all the things which he layeth here to his charge, were in deed as evil as Tyndale would have them taken. But surely sith the man hath fawtes enough beside/ I will myself defend him well in this. For this will I well make good in his behalf, that if the fawtes for which he raileth here upon the pope, be things nought in deed and worthy to be rebuked/ then may he well and lawfully rially jest and rail upon the hole pedigree of pope's, saint Peter himself and all. For surely the things for the teaching whereof Tyndale rebuketh here the pope, hath ever been the doctrine of pope's, patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and our saviour himself and all.  
For first he proveth us that the pope believeth not to be saved thorough Christ, because he teacheth to trust in holy works for remission of sins and salvation. Is not here a perilous lesson trow ye/ namely so taught as the church teacheth it, that no good work can be done without help of god's grace, nor no good work of man worthy the reward of heaven but by the liberal goodness of god, nor yet should have such a price set upon it save thorough the merits of Crystes bitter passion/ and that yet in all our deeds we be so unperfyt, that each man hath good cause to fere for his own part, lest his best be bad. I would ween that good works were not so deadly poison/ but taking not to much at once for cloyenge of the stomach, no more at once lo than I see the world wont to do many drams of such treacle mixed with one scruple of dread, were able enough for thirteenth that I can see so to preserve the soul fro presumption, that one spoonful of good works should no more kill the soul, than a potager of good wurtes should kill and stroy the body.  
The scripture biddeth us watch, and fast, and pray, 
 and give almose, and forgive our neighbour/ & we poor men that lack the high spiritual sight that Tyndale hath and his holy elects, take these things for good works. And god saith in his holy writ, that he will forgive our sins the rather for them, and will reward us for them, & thorough the scripture/ this crieth god in our ears, and faithfully promiseth almost in every leaf. And now ye see Tyndale that preacheth so fast of the faith and trust of god's promises, would have us in these promises trust god nothing at all.  
But herein is great peril, 
 specially to hope and trust to get any good at god's hand for the works of penalize enjoined. For the sacrament of penance is to Tyndale a great abomination, and therein in deed he saith somewhat. For well ye wot even of natural reason, a wise man will soon see, that sith the punishment that a man wilfully taketh for the sin that he hath done cometh of an anger and displeasure that he beareth toward himself for the displeasure that his sin hath done to god/ and that h●s willing submitting of himself to the correction of his ghostly father, cometh of great humility given by go●● and taught by all good men: god must needs therefore perdie both be angry and abhor all them, that for the fruits of these good affections can hope for any favour grace or pardon at his merciful hand.  
If Tyndale list to look in saint austin in his book of penance/ he shall there find that holy doctor & 〈◊〉 bid every man put himself whole in his confessors had● and humbly receive and fulfil such penance as he shall enjoin him.  
But than doth Tyndale specially touch, 
 that the church teacheth to put trust in vows and in chastity/ for that is a thing in the ears of Luther's elects of all things mo●●● abominable. But the church teacheth none other tru●●● therein, than the scripture doth hy● self, and our blessed saviour himself.  
They teach saith Tyndale, 
 to trust in other men's prayers and holy living, in freres and in freres coats. Is nat here an abominable sin, that any man should have so little pride in himself, that he should think other men much better than himself, and therefore desire th●m to pray for him to, beside himself. In how many places doth the scripture exhort each of us to pray for other. And when the scripture saith that the diligent prayoure of a just man is much worth/ should we than trust nothing therein, 
Ia●●●i. 5.  but think that it were right nought worth at all/ or because the scripture so commendeth the prayer of a good man, should we like his prayer the less for his holy living, & bid him pray nat for us but if he live nought/ or if he be a frere and go in a freres cote, bid him pray not for us, till he put of his frere's cote and put on a frieze cote, and ruane out of his order, an catch him a queen & call her his wife?  
Than goeth he from good livers in earth unto saints in heaven/ & findeth yet more fault, in that men are taught to go in any pilgrimage, or do any worship to them, or to think that their good living was so pleasant unto god while they lived here in earth, that he will therefore vouchsafe to do any thing at their request for any lover of theyres, while they be with him in heaven.  
How be it in this point I dare be bold to say for Tyndale myself, that he is nat so foolish, but that he seeth well I enough that if I may well pray my neyghbur to pray for me that is here with me in earth/ I may much better pray the saints pray for me that are with god in heaven/ saving that he believeth that they be nat there, nor neither hear us nor see us, but lie still as Luther saith a sleep. And therefore Tyndale lest we might ween that he believed well, biddeth us in another place of his book, that when we meet the saints and talk with any of them, than let us hardly kneel and make our prayer to them. And so ye shall natte need to marvel moche though this man be bold to jest and rail upon every man here in earth, when he feareth nat to make mocks and mows at the blessed saints in heaven.  
He blameth us and bylieth us, as though we took their deed images for quick. But himself seemeth yet much worse in deed, 
Matth. 22.  that taketh gods quykke saints for deed, against Christ's own words declaring the contrary, both by the scripture in the gospel of saint Matthew, & by the story that christ also telleth of Habraam and the rich glutton and Lazare in the xvi chapter of Luke. 
●ucae. 16.   
Than cometh Tyndale in at the last with the ceremonies of the church and the sacraments/ against which prykke he specially spurneth with his kyb●de hele, but it will nat help him. The gentleman is so proud, that the holy sacraments must be his waiting servants. For now he saith that they be but supersticious and serve of nought, but be set in stead of christ, and are (as they be taught) the denying of Crystes blood.  
How should they now be the denying of Crystes blood, when the church teacheth us as god hath taught it, that they all have their strength by Crystes blood, and that in the tone of them is Crystes own very blood and his blessed body both. Both which this heretic denieth/ and as in my first book I showed you, both jesteth and scoffeth upon the precious body and blood of christ in the blessed sacrament of the altar/ and like a mad frantyke fool maketh mocks and mows at the mass.  
And now that ye see good christian readers for what doctrine Tyndale rebuketh the common catholic church/ ye can not but thereby perceive what doctrine he would have them teach/ that is to wit that we should have no respect to good works, use no shrift nor penance, beware of chastity and bless us well therefro, let no good men pray for us, nor none that use holy living, no Francysce frere bid any bede for us in his freres cote, till he do of his grey garments and cloth himself comely in gay kendal green/ set saints at nought, and all holy ceremonies used in god's service, and als the seven sacraments to/ make mokkes at the mass and at Crystes body, and take it for nothing but cake breed or starch. And when the clergy teacheth this once/ then shall they be the church, But for lack of this doctrine, they be no part thereof. For Tyndale telleth us that till they teach us thus/ they can ●euer believe to be saved thorough christ. And I say me seemeth as I be saved thorough christ, if Tyndale lay mad in the mids of Bedlam, he could not to good christian men telll a more frantyke tale. And this fransey is his first reason. Now let us here his second.   

The second reason.  Tyndale. 
Another reason is, who so ever believe in christ consente●h that gods saw is good. The pope consenteth not that god's law is good/ ●or ●e hath forboden lawful wedlokke unto all his over whom he reigneth, as a tempo●a●● tyrant with laws of his own making, and not as a brother exhorting. them to keep Crystes. And he hath granted unlawful boredome unto as many as bring money. As th●row all dow●helarde, every pressed paying a ●●lden unto the arched●con, shall freely and quietly have h●s whore, and put her away at his pleasure, and take another at his own l●●te. As they do in Wales, in Ireland, Scotland, France, and Spain. And in england thereto they be not ●ewe which have ●ycences to keep whore's some of the p●pe and some of their ordinaries. And when the parishes go to law with them to put away their whores/ the bishops officers much them, polle them, and make them spend their thryftes, & the priests keep their who●es still. How be it in very deed since they were rebuked by the preaching of wy●leffe/ our english spyrytual●ye ●aue laid their snares● unto me●nes wives to cover their abominations, though they bide not always secret.  More. 
Here Tyndal proveth us that no pope believeth in god/ For none of them consenteth that god's law is good. He proveth that they consent nat that god's law is good, because they make he saith laws of their own byside/ & therefore he saith that they nat only consent nat that god's law is good, but also that they reign over christian people like temporal tyrauntes● whereby Tyndaletecheth us that every temporal prince making any law beside the law of god, consenteth nat that god's law is good, nor useth nat himself as a lawful prince, but as an, unlawful tyrant/ because he doth nat only as a brother exhort Christ's law, but also like a tyrant compelleth them to keep his own.  
Now this glawnce that Tyndale in railing upon pope's maketh by the way at all temporal princes and laws is if they plainly durate speak it out, the very principal point of all his whole purpose and his master Marten Luther's to, and all the serpentine seed that is descended of them● For Luther saith that we need no more laws but only the gospel well and truly preached after his own false fashion. And he babeleth also in his babilonica that neither man nor angel hath any power or authority to make any law or any one syllable of a law upon any christian man, without his own agreement given thereunto. And by frere Bar●s heresy a man may with out deadell sin break all the laws that are made by men.  
And thus ye may see that the shrewd sort of all this sect, would nat only have pope's and pope's laws gone and taken away, but kings & kings laws to, if their purpose might prosper/ & make all people lawless, because all laws are lets as they take them to their evangelical liberty by which they claim to be bounden or compelled to nothing, but exhorted only to live every man after the gospel, by every man, exponed after his own mind which manner of exhorting amounteth unto as much, as to let all run at riot without any bond or bridle, & than exhort every man to live as he list himself.  
But now is it good to see what law so specially lieth in Tyndals' eye/ for which he generally raileth upon all the remanant. That is for that he sayeth that the pope hath foreboden lawful wedlock. In this he meaneth two things, with which two Luther and wyclyffe were evil content before. One that there is marriage now forboden between brethren and sisters children that was not before forbode by the scripture. For which cause wyclyffe saith that such marriages are foreboden without any foundation or ground.  
But this thing, to which pope will Tyndale lay? For he shall find that in these things the old holy pope saint Gregory and divers other holy pope's to, and not pope's only but also divers counsels and great assemblies of holy virtues fathers, have in old time soon upon christendom well spread abroad, for increase of natural honesty and propagation of christian charity, forbode marriage to be made with other degrees both of kindred and affinity, much further of than they that abide now forbode / with which the church hath sins for our infirmity dispensed and undone the bond/ so that in that point the fault that Tyndale, wyclyffe, and Luther lay unto the pope, they must lay to so many such pope's and other holy men beside, that who so consider the tone sort & the t'other will have little lust to believe three or four now such manner folk as Tyndale and his fond fellows be, against so many virtuous old holy fathers as they were that made those laws.  
The other law that he layeth so sore against the pope, is that priests, freres, canons, monks and nuns, may not be suffered to be wedded, contrary to their own vows and promises made unto god, which no man compelled them to make. Is not this a great fault tha● frere tukke may not marry mad Maryon?  
But then to set out this matter some what the better to the show/ he rially raileth out at large upon all bishops, archedekens, and other spiritual officers. whose faults if they be such as we well know that he falsely belieth many/ yet were their evil demeanour neither to be imputed unto the law which forbiddeth it as the gospel doth nor unto the pope. which when he hath been informed of a bishops fault, hath as by divers decretales appeareth proceeded to the punishment and amendment thereof.  
But Tyndale letteth not to lie out aloud, and say that the pope hath himself granted unlawful whoredom to as many as bring money/ and in another place of his book he saith, that the pope hath in Rome set up a stews of boys.  
we have had many pardonies come hither and many dispensations and many licences to/ but yet I thank our lord I never knew none such, nor I trust never shall, nor Tyndale I trow neither/ but that he listeth loud to lie. And as for his lycences customably given by the ordinaries, I trust he lieth in other countries/ for as for England I am sure he lieth. And therefore every honest man will I wot well take his tale thereafter, for in the like manner he may when he list, and will hereafter when he seeth his time, rail upon eu●ry ●orde that hath any let, and upon all the sessions of peace kept within the realm/ in all which many kinds of malefactors are amerced yearly, and fines set on their heads, & they compelled to pay them, to compel them thereby to leave their evil doing/ and yet will there many for all that be stark nought still. But yet are not thamercementes made for lycences/ but devised for punishments & for means of amendment, though the malice of many men be so much that they never amend thereby.  
And consider that his second reason wherein he reproveth all laws the spiritual openly, and covertly the temporal to, and for the laws calleth the maker's tyrants/ so farforth that finally no man can please him, but wyclyffe the first founder here of that abominable heresy, that blasphemeth the blessed sacrament/ this second reason of his I say every wise man seeth, is yet more unreasonable and much mor● fond and foolish then the first.   

The third reason.  Tyndale. 
Thereto all christian men if they have done amiss, repent when their faults be told them. The spirituality repent not but of very su●●● and con●●●te t● sin, persecute both the scripture wherewith they be re●●●●●, and 〈◊〉 ●●●m that warn them to amend and make heretics o● th●m and burn● t●em. And besides that the pope hath made a plain decree, 〈…〉 death saying, Though the pope sin never so grievously, and 〈…〉 him to hell by his ensample thousands innumerable 〈…〉 hardy to rebuke hymn Por he is heed over all, and none ●uer hymn 〈◊〉. xl. Si papa.  More. 
Here he proveth us that the spirituality be not of the church/ for none is of the church but repentauntes. And then all christian men he sayeth repent, as soon as their faults be told them/ but the spiritualty he saith repent not.  
Tyndale hath now forget, that he hath ofter than once told us here before, that his owne● elects will not ever here their faults told them at the first while they be carried forth in the rage/ but that a man must if he will have audience, tarry till that luskus have played out their lusts/ & as he said in one place, some of them will not give ear till the very cold fere of death come. And now if he will stand to this tale, he giveth the spirituality whom he so sore accus●th, a plain answer after his own doctryne● that he is to hasty upon them/ they may be of his ow●e especial elects perdie fulwell, though they be not con●ent to mend yet/ but he must suffer them to play out all their lusts, or else till they come so near the cold fire of death that they feel not one spark of the warm flesh, and then speak and he shallbe herd.  
How ●e it leaving his own doctrine for himself ● they may tell him that he is somewhat over temeraryouse and hold, either to judge so● rashly the repentance of other men which inwardly lieth in the heart, whereof only god is the beholder/ or else to impute and ascribe the manner and condition of some impenitent wretches, to the who●e company of the clergy, which usually declare them 〈◊〉 repentant by shrift and confession of their sins and doing of penance, as all other good christian people do.  
Now if Tyndale allege against them/ that for a●l that they fall to deadly sin again: we will ask him whereby knoweth he that/ and than must he say that by some sinful deeds. But then if he grant once, that deadly sinful deeds be a sure fuffycyent proof of deadly sinful minds: he destroyeth ye wot well all his own former doctrine, concerning the sinning and yet not sinning of his own holy elects, which can he saith never sin deadly do they never so horrile deeds.  
And yet as for repenting/ our clergy perdie may well appear more penitent than theyres. For I dare boldly say that except some such as be fallen into Luther's and Tyndales church/ there is else no man so bad of the catholic church, but he will confess and agree that his lechery is deadly sin. But on the other side, their own clergy & the very great clerks of their clergy, as the great clerk Luther, and the great clerk Tindale, and the great clerk Huyskyns: if they be asked whither the lechery between a frere & a nun be deadly sin or no, they will answer ye wot well that it is none at all/ if they give it once an honest name than is it no sin at all, if they call it matrimony, but shall have hell for their patrimony. whereof ye see well they repent not a whit/ but they will I warrant you when they come there.  
But all their excuse lieth in this, that all their fawtes come but of frailty/ and our spirituality sinneth of malice, because they persecute Tyndals holy translation of the scripture, in which himself hath plainly confessed that he turned the usual english words of church, pressed, and penance, to congregation, senior, and repentance, of very purpose to bring in his heresies against the sacraments. which while he so did of purpose/ I am content to wink thereat, and forget for this once that he sinned therein of plain purpensed malice. But yet this will I say the while for our part, that he hath no good ground to say that the persecution is malicious, done against such a translation, so translated of such a shrewd intent and such a malicious purpose.  
Now if he would excuse himself from malice, in that he would make us ween that though part be false, himself might of weak wit and frail faith, ween his heresies were the true belief, because of his own mind & Luther's & Huyskyns authority in the construction of scripture: he must perdie by the same reason excuse our clergy from malice in persecuting his heresies, sith that they may well wit, by the authority of saint austin, saint Hierom, saint Gregory, saint Ambrose, saint Cyprian, saint basil, saint Chrysostome, & all the old holy saints unto their own days, and all the whole catholic church of christ, and by his holy spirit given to those holy doctors of his church and ever abiding therein/ that those heresies which Tyndale teacheth, that freres may wed nuns, and that the sacraments be but bare tokens and signs, and Crystes blessed body at the mass no sacrifice nor none oblation, nor but a bare memorial in wine and starch or cakebrede, be very false devilish errors/ and in all good christian men's ears, spitefully spoken, blasphemous, and abominable. And where he saith that the clergy doth rebuke them by whom they be warned to amend, and doth make heretics of them & burn them, meaning Hytton peradventure & such other as he was/ of which sort there hath of late some be burned in smithfield, as Bayfelde, Baynom, and Teuxbery: the clergy maketh them nat heretics nor burneth them neither. But Tyndales books and their own malice maketh them heretics. And for heretics as they be/ the clergy doth denounce them. And as they be well worthy, the temporalty doth burn them. And after the fire of smithfield, hell doth receive them/ where the wretches burn for ever.  
But than he sayeth that the pope never repenteth, because he 〈◊〉 made a plain decree, in which he commandeth saying; Though the 〈◊〉 sin never so grievously, and draw with him to hell by his ensample thousands innumerable/ yet let no man be so hardy to rebuke him. ●or he i● heed over all, and none over him/ Distinct xl Si papa.  
There are orders in Christ's church, by which a pope may be both admonished and amended/ and hath be for incortigible mind and lack of amendment, finally deposed and changed. But that every lewd lorell upon every false tale that he heareth, or peradventure that himself maketh, should have courage and boldness to scoff, geste, and rail, either upon pope or prince, or a moche more mean estate/ is a thing so little commendable, that every well ordered region, hath by plain laws prohibited & foreboden such rybauldous behaviour/ all though they were able to prove that the thing which they said were nothing false at all. And this thing hath every well ordered realm, nat without good reason provided/ sith it well appeared that were the thing true were it false, it were unsitting to suffer that manner to be used, whereby the governors might often causeless and falsely be defamed among the people. And if the thing were some time peradventure true/ yet sith that fashion & manner can nothing amend the matter, & therefore is by all laws forbode to be in such wise used toward the most simple wretch in all a town/ it were a lewd thing to suffer any prince, estate, or governor, to be brought in slander among the comen people/ whereof can come none other effect or fruit, but hatred or contempt planted in their hearts toward their rulers and governors, whom they be for all that still bounden both to love and obey.  
And if a man would say that great men can nat otherwise come to the knowledge of their own faults: ye may be sure that if the things be true whereof the people talk, they know their deeds themself before the people here of them. And if the same be false/ yet may many men have it in their mouths before it come at the prince's ear/ and yet when he heareth it sith the same is feigned, what good can he do thereby. And if percase any man think that the princes themself perceive nat their faults for faults/ till they here the people murmur and wonder at them: surely right seldom haps it that a man could nat perceive that thing for a fault, which were in deed so great that it were worthy for all the people to wonder at. And yet if private affection toward their own fantasies, happened in any thing so far to myslede their judgement/ for help of such haps serve their confessors and counsellors/ & every man that of good mind would in good manner declare his own good advice toward his prince and his country, either to his own person or such other of his counsel, as by them it may be brought unto him/ and nat in unthrifty company fall to railing, or by slanderous bills blow abroad an evil noughty tale, whereof all the town may talk, & to their own harm diffaine their sovereign, while himself shall happily nothing here thereof.  
But yet are there some that defend such evil fashion of unreverent railing uppou great personages, affirming that it should do good that such high estates as be far from all other fere, may stand yet under some dread of diffamation and slander/ that likewise as the desire of honour, praise, and glory, pricketh them some time forward to do good/ so may the fere of infamy, dishonour, and dispraise, refrain and reftrayne them from evil, and some time wholesomely bridle and contain them within the l●mytes and bounds of good and honourable order. There needeth no man to doubt, but that as far as sufficeth to that purpose, is provided fore well enough/ though naughty persons be not maintained in their malicious railing. For who so standeth a loft upon an hill of eminent high estate, can not in no wise be hid/ but as he seeth all the eyen of his people from the valley looking up upon him, so seeth he well that neither deed nor countenance almost that himself may make, can pass unperceived and marked. which is enough to make any man regard himself that any respect hath toward the praise and estimation of other folke● which respect who so ever lacketh/ no fere of slander or dread of defamation amendeth. which may percase also be long spread far abroad, ere any man bring him word/ while many men abhorred to be demanded by what mean they know that there is any such rumour abroad, and to be asked who told them the tale. And some love to tell their master no displeasant tidings/ but when they here many speak evil, turn of their good minds every thing to the best, and say to their master that all the world saith well.  
And finally if it fortune him to here that he be spoken of abroad/ some may thereby happen rather aware wrath than care/ specially sith he may make himself sure, that if such railing speech be suffered to run at riot, be the governor as good as god is himself, yet shall he be sure to be shrewdly spoken of/ so ready be lewd persons maliciously to rail and jet upon their rulers. And so for as much as upon railing and jesting upon any manner of estate, there can no good grow, but many time rather much harm: yet it is not only by the common laws of this realm upon great pain forbidden, that any man should with any slanderous railing words miss use himself toward his prince/ but also by the plain statut de scandalis magnatum sore and straightly prohibited, that no man shall slanderously speak of any noble man in the realm, 

Ex●di. 22.  
  And much more is then intolerable to suffer any such ribalds to the rebuke of any state, to put forth any railing books/ which malicious manner is by all other laws upon great pain forbode, though the matter touch a right mean person.  
And all this I say yet/ as though I granted that the pope had made that law that Tyndale here saith he did.  
But now if it be false the Tyndale saith, & that of troth the pope made not that law, but that the words which Tyndale rehearseth be no law at all, nor spoken nor written by any pope, but by some other that was never pope/ what is Tyndale than, that saith the pope hath made those words for a plain law.  
Those words which Tindale saith are a plain law made by the pope/ be in deed incorporate in the book of the decrees, in the same distinction and place where Tyndale allegeth them. But than is Tyndale very ignorant, if he know not that though there be in that book of the decrees many things that be laws, & that were by divers pope's and divers synodies and counsels made for laws/ yet are there in that book many things beside, that neither were made by any synod nor by any pope/ but written by divers good holy men. Out of whose holy works as well as out of synodies and counsels and pope's writing, Gracyane a good virtuous and well learned man, compiled and gathered that book/ which is therefore called the decees of gracian, as an other like book is called the decrees of Iuo, which out of like authority compiled a like work. Now is every thing that is alleged and inserted in the books of those decrees, of such authority there, as it is in the place out of which Gracian or Iuo gathered it/ and not a law nor a thing made by the pope, but if it were a law or made by a pope before, and out of a law or out of a pope's writing taken in to the decrees.  
Now the words which Tyndale bringeth forth, and saith that the pope hath made them for a law, be not the words of any pope/ but they be the words of the blessed holy martyr saint Boniface which brought the faith in to Almaigne, and was for the faith martyred in Freselande. And so is it plainly specified in the decrees, by those words in the rubryce, Exdictis Bonifacit martyris.  
But Tyndale to blind and beguile the readers with/ would make men ween that it were the pope's words made for a plain law. wherein Tyndale plainly showeth his plain open falsehood, except he were so wise that he had went the pope had made it for a law, by cause it beginneth with S● papa/ like him that because he red in the mass book, Te igitur clementissime pater, preached unto the parish that Te igitur was saint Clemens father.   

The fourth reason.  Tyndale. 
And Poule sayeth Ro. 13. let every soul obey the higher powers, that are ordained to punish sin. The pope will nat nor let any of his.  More. 
touching first the pope himself, Tyndale telleth us here a wise tale. For setting a side the question whether the pope either be or rightfully aught to be, chief governor over the christian flock/ and if he be or aught to be, how far than and to what things his authority stretcheth or aught to stretch: This thing at the leastwise Tyndale very well knoweth himself, that neither in spiritual things nor in temporal, there is no man at Rome in his own see, that claimeth any power or jurisdiction upon him. And as for the clergy besides, Tyndale here as far as I see, falsely belieth the pope. For he letteth none of his to obey their higher powers/ but by the canon laws of the church, commandeth every of them to obey their higher powers, and to keep and observe the laws of the princes and countries that they live in.  
But the thing that grieveth Tyndale is this/ that any priest should in honour of the sacrament of priesthood, have any manner of privilege more than a lay man. For his heresy reckoneth every woman a priest, and as able to say mass as ever was saint Peter. And in good faith as for such masses as he would have said, without the canon, without the secrets, without oblation, without sacrifice, without the body or blood of Christ, with bare signs and tokens in stead of the blessed sacrament: I ween a woman were in deed a more meet priest than saint Peter.  
And all be it that neither woman may be priest, nor any man is priest or hath power to say mass, but if he be by the sacrament of holy orders taken and consecrated into that office: yet sith the time that Tyndale hath begun his heresies, 
2 R●gu. 1.  and sent his erroneous books about, calling every christian woman a priest: there is nat now in some places of England the simplest woman in the parish, but that she doth, & that not in corners secretly but look on who so will, in open face of the world in her own parish church/ I say nat here, but say her own self and (left you should look for some riddle) openly revested at the high altar, she sayeth I say herself and singeth to, if it be true that I here reported, as many masses in some one week, as Tyndale himself either sayeth or heareth in two whole year together/ but if it be when he sweareth by it, or heareth some other swear.  
All holy consecrations Tyndale calleth foolish ceremonies/ forgetting that in the old law divers times it is honourably rehearsed and laid for a cause of the reverend using of the priests person, because that the holy oil is upon him.  
And he list nat to remember that the holy Prophet David, did so moche esteem that holy ointment with which king Saul was consecrated, that all be it he was rejected again of god, and himself received and anointed king in his place, and was also persecuted by him/ he nat only put the man to death that said he had slain him for touching of god's anointed/ but also for all that he spared him and saved his life, and being his deadly enemy, did him yet no bodily harm. He repented and forthought that he had so much done to him, 
1 R●gum. 24.  as secretly to cut his garment.  
These things and many such other like whereof the scripture is full, Tyndale in every place diffymuleth/ and would have all consecrations set at nought and taken in dirisyon/ and would that no man should have neither prince nor priest in any manner reverence, the rather of one rysshe for their holy consecration. But as he would have every woman to take herself for a priest/ so would he that every man should ween himself a king. For surely the words of saint Peter with which these heretics prove the tone, prove even the other a like/ that is to say falsely and foolishly taken, prove both the tone and the t'other/ but wisely taken and truly, 
1 Pe●ri. 2.  prove neither the tone nor the t'other.   

The fift reason.  Tyndale. 
And Paul chargeth. 1. Co●. 5. If he that is a brother be an whore keeper, a dro●kerd, covetous, an extortioner, or a rays●●, and so forth/ that we have no fellowship with him, no not so much as to ●ate in his company. But the pope with violence compelleth us to have such in honour, to receive the sacraments of them, to hear their masses, and to believe all they say/ and yet they will not let us see whether the say troth or no. And be compelleth ten parishes to pay their tithes and offerings unto one such, to go and run at riot at their cost, and to do nought therefore. And a thousand such like doth the pope contrary unto Christ's doctrine.  More. 
To begin here at the last point/ the pope, though the party sometime that hath divers benefices doth abuse the fruits, the pope gave him neither liberty nor licence that he should so do/ but gave him leave to take the cure of them, trusting upon certain suggestion that the man were such one as should and would use them well. And no doubt is there, but that some man may right well have the cure of divers parishes, and good causes why he so should/ and do more good in them both tha● some other should in one. But as for this point Tyndale meaneth moche farther than he speaketh/ and intendeth hereafter if it be well allowed concerning pope's and pr●estes, than to draw that line a little longer/ and look whether he may make the reason stretch a little farther, as he hath done a little in some part of h●s writing all ready, which we shall answer I trust well enough when we come once to the proper places.  
Now where he sayeth that whore keepers and such other as saint Poule forbiddeth us the company, the pope with violence compell●th us to have in honour, and to receive the sacraments of them, and to here their masses, and to believe all that that they say: This is a very lowdelye. For the pope letteth you nat to complain upon them/ and the laws of the church be, that for their crimes they shallbe suspended from the medeling and administration of such things/ and sometime deposed of their offices, deprived of their benefices, and degraded of their orders to. And therefore the pope comp●lleth him nat with violence to do them honour in their vices. And if there were any that did/ he were in the doing an evil pope as he were an evil man. But what were the fault of an evil pope to the office of the papacy/ except that Tyndale will reprove and rebuke every king and prince, and would have none at all, because that some of them sometime do not always their duty/ or will lay to the princes charge if any office under him do not every man such right as the prince would he should, and trusteth also that he doth. Now where he saith that the pope compelleth him to believe all that every such pressed saith: that is yet another lie ones again. For if the pressed say false, & preach heresies/ as if he would say that all the seven sacraments be but bare signs & tokens, & that freres may lawfully wed nuns: the pope compelleth no man with violence to believe that pressed/ nor compelled not Tyndale neither against the plain scripture of god, in such frantyke heresies to believe the lewd learning of Luther, frere Huyskyn, & Denckius, Balthasar, Lambert, and Suinglius/ of all which never one believeth other. But the pope is well content & so would it should be, that if the pressed preach such heresies, folk shall not believe him but accuse him, and have him reform, & revoke them, and abjure them/ or else let degrade him and deliver him, and let the princes keep him from the people. whereof to be sure and for avoiding of such he resyes by the terror of that ensample/ good christian princes cause faithful people to burn him.  
Buf then is there one thing wherewith Tyndale is sore disposed, that the pope will not as he saith let him and his fellows see whither the pressed say well or no.  
If the pressed be accused of his doctrine/ he is as I say brought unto examination, to wit whither he said truth or no. what other way would Tyndale have? It is plain enough what he meaneth in this matter. He meaneth therein nothing else, but that he would have all thing so farforth set at large, that he might bring first in doubt and question, and after in errors and heresies upon the question, every point of Crystes catholic faith, that god hath by his holy blessed spirit in xu C. year taught his catholic church. And then all things once brought in that evangelical liberty, that every man may believe even as him list, and after that live even as him list to, with out any lord or any law to let him/ then lo to make the gospel truly taught, take away in any wise all the clergy clean, and let Tyndall send his women priests about the world to preach.  
And now good christian readers here have ye hard all his five reasons/ by which in stead of that he should have proved, that is to wit that the known catholic church of all christian people is nat the church of Christ in earth, he hath taken upon him to prove (all beside the purpose) first that the pope and his sect, and after yet farther fro the purpose, that the pope and the spirytualtie be nat the church. And of that which should be his purpose, that is to wit that the known catholic church is nat the church, he hath nat spoken one word. And yet finally concerning that he hath gone about to prove/ touching the pope and the spirituality/ he cometh forth as ye see now with his five reasons that ye have red/ in the making of which five reasons, a man may marvel where were vanished a way all his five wits, for any piece of his purpose that appeareth proved in them all/ but if we r●ken railing for reason and shameless open lies for good and sufficient proves. And therefore here end I this book/ in which if Tyndale have said any thing to the purpose at all, I am content to grant him that he hath said well in all, and fully proved all together.   
Here endeth the fift book/ and beginneth the sixth, where in is avoided the solutions of Tyndale, wherewith he would disprove the first reason, proving that the known catholic church is the true church of Chryst. which first reason is that all the sects of heretics do come out of the catholic church.   

¶ The sixth book,  

The defence of the first argument against Tyndale.  Tyndale. 
T●e arguments wherewith the pope would prove himself the church are solved.  More. 
This is the title of his chapter, wherein he descendeth by degrees as ye see, ferther down from his purpose then ever he did before. For where as before in stead of the whole catholic church, he descended to the clergy alone, which is but the tone part: here he leaveth all them to/ & maketh as though men called the whole catholic church no more but the pope himself/ that is to wit an whole great maigne multitude of many sundry states, manners, conditions, and kinds, no moo but one man alone. Is not this ge●e by Tyndale well and comely devised?  
And yet forthwith to show his further constance, when he cometh to the matter self/ he turneth it again fro the pope alone, to the whole company of the clergy/ dyssymuling always still the temporal●ye, as though there were of them neither man nor woman of the church. where in I would have excused his one falsehood by his other, and would have said that he meant according to his heresy, that in the clergy were all together conteyn●d, because he maketh every man and every woman both a pressed. But that excuse he taketh away himself/ and that even by & by, when in the next words following, he declareth that he speaketh of no more than only such as be so shameless, that they suffer themself to be shaven. For in this wise lo the wise man beginneth.  Tyndale. 
Notwithstanding a● because as they be all shaven, so they be all shameles●e, to affirm that they be the right church/ and can not err, though all t●e wo●lde seeth that n●t one of them is in the right way. And that they have with utter dif●yaunce forsaken both the doctrine and the living of christ, and of all his apostles/ let us see the sophestrye wherewith they would persuade it. One of their high reason's is this.  More. 
Lo sir here Tyndale affirmeth that like wise as all the clergy be shaven, so they be all shameless/ & therefore hath his master Martin Luther let his crown grow, and lieth with a nun to learn of his leman some very maidenly shamefastness. But nat till her here was well grown again, ye must understand/ for she was before for lack of her hear as shameless as Luther ye wot well.  
But now why be all the shaven clergy shameless saith Tyndale? Because they affirm that they be the right church. Now when Tyndale knoweth well that we speak of the catholic church. And than here dissimuleth that the clergy so calleth the right church of Christ/ and that they call the hole catholic church nat themself alone● but themself and the temporalty together, as tindal may well learn by every poor freres prayer the preche●h: either hath Tyndale shaven his ●rowne agayne● or else is there as god would one yet unshaven as shameless as any that was shaven this seven year.  
But yet when he goeth farther, and sayeth that all the whole world seeth that of the whole clergy being all shaven, there is nat one of them all in the right waye● but that they have all everichone with uttre defiance forsaken both the doctrine and the living of Christ and all h●s apostles: I verily believe in good faith, that Tyndale shall scantly find any one so shameless among h●s own sort, that is to say among all the sects of heretics, but that will confess upon his conscience, that Tyndale here lieth out of all measure shamefully.  
And when he hath about the proof of this point bestowed all ready his whole chapter afore, wherein he c●me forth pardie with his five eggs/ & after a great face made of a great feste, supped them all up himself without an● salt/ for all his gests that he bode to supper, might smell them so rotten that they supped of the savour). Now to come forth again with the same tale, and set us to the same table at supper again, with neither bred nor drink, flesh, fish, nor fruit/ This man well declareth us that though he be nat shaven, but have his h●are of his unshavyn crown grown out at great length in despite of priesthood, and like an Iseland● cur let hang over his eyen/ yet hath the man as much shame in his face, as a shotten hearing hath shrimps in her tail.  
For surely if there were any one spark of shame in his whole body, it would set his face a fire to speak among christian men, that other folk are out of the right way/ when he woteth well that his writing showeth in what wrong way himself is, how far fallen from Crystes holy teaching, with his bestely doctrine, under name of matrimony to cowple together freres and nuns in lechery/ and his abominable mocking of Crystes own blessed body.  
But now because he speaketh of our sophistry: let us consider how substantially the man soileth the first reason, that he would were reckoned so light. And I trust ye shall see that one reason somewhat better than all his hole five were, which I have answered in the next book before.  Tyndale. 
One of thayr high reasons is, The church say they was before the heretics, and the heretics came ever out of the church and left it/ & they were before all them which they now call heretics and Lutherans, and the Lutherans came out of them etc. wherefore they be the right church, and the other heretics in deed as they ●e called. well I will like wise dispute. first the right church was under Moses & Aaron and so forth, in whose r●ume● sat the scribes & pharisees and high priests in the time of Crist/ and they were before christ/ and christ and his apostles came out of them and departed from them and left them: wherefore the scribes Pharysees & high priests, were the right church, and christ and his apostles and dis●y●ses heret●kes and a damnable sect. And so the ●ewes are yet in the right way, and we in error. And of troth if their ●●ynde reason be good than is this argument so to. For they be like, and are b●the one thing.  More. 
Now good christian reader, this reason that Tyndale so rially s●offeth out, with a like argument of his own making/ he telleth you not where he red. But it well appeareth that he hath red it in other men's books beside mine/ for else he would not say one of their high reasons, but one of his high reasons if he took the reason but for mine alone.  
But this is his fashion lo in all things/ he maketh as though he mock but men of these later days/ which latter days himself calleth yet eight hundred year and more. But he mocketh in deed those old holy doctors, which died and some were martyred above a thousand year agone.  
For ye shall understand that this reason which Tyndale so scornfully rehearseth, and would seem to shake of so lightly/ was nat only made by me in my dialogue, but also before my days by divers good and great cunning men. And among other, this reason that Tyndale in scorn calleth an high reason/ was made by that great fa●ous doctourand high glorious martyr saint Cyprian, against Novatiane and fortunacian, and other heretics and schismatics, in and before his days.  
Now is saint Cyprian a man of such authority, that the great holy doctor saint austin, allegeth as reverently saint Cyprian as any man now allegeth saint Austyne.  
And this reason that Tyndale now derideth and mocketh/ saint Cyprian thought so sure, specially so furnished with scriptures as he set it forth, that he useth it nat once or twice/ but in sundry places so often against heretics, that it maketh me even sorry to see how sore god suffered that good saint to be deceived, if an heretic might now by a like form argument lo shortly and so shamefully shake his reason of.  
But I will nat do saint Cyprian so much dishonour, as to set him to dispute with Tyndale. But sith Tyndale and I be somewhat more meetly matches. He & I shall therefore between us twain first dispute and discuss/ and than you good christian readers shall after discern & judge, whether the reason that he rehearseth and the reason that he maketh, by which as by the like he would fain seem to soil it, be as he sayeth they be, both like and both one or not.  
For the better perceiving whereof, ye shall understand that where as in my dialogue I had proved first that the church of Christ here in earth, shall ever endure and continue as long as the world shall last/ which thing is I doubt nat in such wise proved there, that Tyndale dare nat himself deny it here: I than in the second book did after prove, that the known catholic church is that same church/ and none of all the sects of heretics, because all they be come out of it/ and that therefore all they be but branches cut of or broken of from this vine of Crystes mystical body the known catholic church/ & that sith they be from the stock, they therefore dry up and wythere away, and aware worth no thing, nor meet for no thing but worthy for the fire.  
And so this reason that Tyndale here rehearseth, I there lay forth and declare with diverse places of scripture/ by which I prove at good length thorough all the second chapter, that such as go out of this known catholic church, be and alway have been the heretics, and for heretics be declared by the very scripture itself. whereof I there by some places, as some such as saint Cypryane sayeth himself/ how be it of troth not all the places of scripture that he layeth for that purpose, because I had not at that time red and marked saint Cypryane upon that point.  
Now cometh Tyndale and barely rehearseth my reason, dyssymuling after his accustomed fashion all that ever I laid forth for the proof. Of all which things neither in his answer here which he calleth his solution, nor afterward when he cometh to the place in his pertycular answers unto every chapter in order, he never maketh any manner mency on/ but when he cometh to my second book, goeth fro the first chapter to the third, as though the prenter had left the second unprynted.  
Is not this fashion a plain confession of his ignorance, and that he was at his wits end, and saw not what to say unto it. And because he left all my proof of my reason untouched/ he durst not here for shame speak of my name, nor be a known that he red that reason in my book/ lest men should look for it, and spy that I ●adde so proved it, that Tyndale durst not med●e with my proofs.  
How be it saving that it had been more wisdom for him to have dissimuled and let alone all the whole matter/ else did he more wisely then to have wrestled with that chapter, out of which he shall never be able to wade while he liveth/ the reason I am sure is in itself so strong, before made by saint Cypryane as I said and some other more, other manner men then Tyndale or I be either.  
And in good faith, I never looked that ever I should have fownden any man so foolish as to ween that he were able to soil it with this argument that Tyndale here frameth for a like/ or that any man were so blind of wit as to ween that those two arguments were like.  
For remember now good reder, that the church of Christ must as I have in my dialogue proved by scripture, last and continue for ever, and Christ's church can be bu● one. whereupon it must needs follow, that there can none go out of it to begin any new church of Christ. But those therefore that go out thereof, must needs be churches of heretics.  
Than must Tyndale if he make his reason, like mine make the ●ynagoge of the jews like to the church of Christ, in perpetuity of lasting and contenuaunce upon earth/ or else shall his argument and his ensample be as like to mine as I wist ones a gentle woman make unto her husband, which longed sore to teach her and make her perceive the treatise of the spear/ & bidding her consider well what he should show her. And first he began at the earth/ and to make her perceive that the earth hangeth in the mids of the world by the poise and weight of himself, and the air compassing the water and the earth round about on every side: ye must quoth he learn and mark well this, that in the whole world higher and lower, is nothing else but utter and in●er/ so that of the whole world, earth, water, air, and all the spears above, being each in a round compass over other, the earth ly●th in the very mids, and as we might say in the wombed & that is of the whole world from every part the innermost place/ and from it upon all sides toward the heaven as it is outward, so is higher/ so that as I tell you in the whole world all is one higher and more outward, lower and more inward. And therefore the earth sith he is in the very mids, that is the most inward place of the whole world/ he is therefore in the lowest for of the whole world/ the innest is as I told you the lowest. And than sith the earth lieth in the lowest/ his own weight ye wot well must needs hold him there/ because ye perceive yourself that no heavy thing can of himself ascend upward. And than the earth dying all ready in the lowest place/ if he should fall out of place on any side, like as he should fall from the inner part to the utter/ so should he fall fro the lower place into the higher. And that ye wot well it can nat, because it is heavy. And therefore imagine that there were an hole bored even thorough the whole earth/ if there were a mill stone thrown d●wen down here on this side from our feet, it should finally rest and remain in the very mids of the earth. And though the hole go thorough/ yet the stone could not fall thorough/ because that from the mids as it should go outward from the innermost part, so s●old it (which a mill stone may not do) ascend higher from the toweste place/ because as I told you in the whole whorlde upon every side to go outward from the innermost, is ascending/ & to go inward from the uttermore is descending/ & ever the utter part is on every side of the whole round world the higher, and the inner part the lower.  
Now while he was telling her this tale, she nothing went about to consider his words/ but as she was wont in all other things, studied all the while nothing else, but what she might say to the contrary. And when he had with much work and oft interrupting, brought at last his tale to an end, well quoth ●he to him as Tyndale saith to me, I will argue like and make you a like sample. My maid hath yonder a spinning wheel/ or else because all your reason resteth in the roundenes of the world, come hither thou girl, take out thy spindle and bring more hither the whar●e. Lo sir ye make imaginations I can not tell you what. But here is a wharle and it is round as the world is/ and we shall not need to imagine an hole bored thorough, for it hath an hole bored thorough in deed. But yet because ye go by imaginations/ and I will imagine with you. imagine me now that this wharle were tene mile thick on every side, & this hole thorough it still/ & so great that a mill stone might well go thorough it: now if the wharle stood on the tone end, & a mill stone were thrown in above at the other end, 〈◊〉 would go no further than the mids trow you? By god if one threw in a stone no bigger than an egg/ I ween if ye stood in the neither end of the hole five mile beneath the mids, it would give you a pat upon the pate that it would make you claw your head, and yet should ye feel none itch at all.  
It were to long a tale to tell you all their dispicions. For words would she none have lacked, though they should have disputed the space of six year. But in conclusion, because there is no more words but one whereby he might give her a true sample, nor she could not perceive the difference between the world & the wharle/ but would needs have them like and both one, because both were round: her husband was fain to put up his speere, and leave his wife her wharle, and fall in taking of some other matter.  
Now playeth Tyndale even the same part with me/ and maketh an argument and a sample of the synagogue, as like to the church of christ for the point that we speak of, that is concerning our saviour with his apostles going out of the synagogue of the jews, and christian people going out of the church of Christ/ as the wharle was like the world, concerning the stone to go thorough the wharle, & the stone to fall thorough the earth, or the whole earth to fall into the moan when the son were over our hedes and the moan on the other side in the contrary sign.  
For I think that no man will desire to have it proved that the church or synagogue of the jews was not ordained to last for ever/ but to cease and give place unto christ at his coming/ and that he should then in stead of the synagogue of the jews, begin and continue his church both of jews and gentiles/ and that then should be of the jews peculiar church & peculiar laws and sacraments and ceremonies an end/ and that the church of Chryst as long as the world should last, s●olde never have end. Nor no man will I suppose desire to have it proved, that the church of christ can be but o●e. For these things are good reder not only in every part of scripture so plenteously proved, but also among all christian people so plainly believed & so commonly known, that I shall not need to spend any time in the proof.  
Now these things being thus/ consider good christian reader how like these two reasons are together, Tyndales I mean and mine/ which two Tyndale saith be not only like, but also be both one.  
Chryst and his apostles and saint Iohn baptist went out of the church or synagogue of the jews/ because the time was come in which by gods own ordinance, the jews church or synagogue should have an end. And therefore Luther, Tyndale, Huyskyn, and Swynglyus be gone out of the catholic church of Chryst, which while the world endureth, is ordained of god to have none end.  
Also christ & his apostles went as god had ordayne● out of the old church to begin a new/ because the old must by god's ordinance be left of and changed. And therefore Luther, Tyndale, Huyskyn, and Suinglius be gone out of the old church to begin a new/ because the old church by god's ordinance, shall never be left of in earth, nor never no new begun.  
Also christ and his apostles went out of the old church to begin one new church of all people agreeing in one faith either with other. And therefore Luther, Tyndale, Huyskyn, and Suinglius, be gone out of the old church, to begin a great many new divers chyrchers, of which never one should agree with other/ nor almost in any of them any one man with other.  
Finally christ went with his apostles out of the old church to begin a new, that was prophesied to be a perpetual church without end, against which the gates of hell should never prevail. 
〈…〉  And Luther, Tyndale, Huyskyn, and Suinglius, be gone out of the old church to begin a great many new, which are all prophesied by christ and his apostles to be stark heretics/ & that none of them all shall endure and last no more than hath done the churches of Arrius, helvidius, Pelagian, or Manicheus, with forty such sects more. All whom the very gates of hell have so prevailed against/ that they have gotten them in and shut them fast in and fast keep them in with the dampened devils with flame and fire in the deep dungeon of hell.  
And thus have I now good christian readers showed you so many plain differences between Tyndals' reason and mine, which twain he sayeth be both one/ that I ween he will not show you so many differences between himself and a sole/ and yet he will not say that they be both one.  
But now shall you ferther see, that the ferther he wadeth on in his solution, the deeper he sinketh in to the mud, and the faster he sticketh in the mire. For lo thus he wadeth on.  Tyndale. 
But in as much as the kingdom of god stands not in words, as Poule saith. 1. Cor. 4. but in power: therefore look unto the marrow and pith of the things self, and let vain words pass.  More. 
Very well remembered lo. For there is one difference more between Tyndals' reason and mine/ which difference saving that Tyndale here putteth us in remembrance, I had else almost forgotten. And that is, that as he putteth me well in mind, the kingdom of god is not in words but in power.  
Now did Chryst therefore and his apostles, prove their departing to be lawful from the church or synagogue of the jews, not by bare words only, but also by might and power in working of many wonderful miracles for the proof thereof.  
And on the other side, Luther, Tyndale, Huyskyn & Suinglius, prove their departing from the catholic church, to be lawful by bare words and babeling only, without any power of miracles at all. In stead of which power to be showed for them by God's hand, they have assayed to get help and power of the devil by the might of man's hand, in raising of sedition, strife, debate, and war, among rebellious and unruly people/ by which many a thousand have been in few days killed and slain, and the far most harm finally fallen upon their own heads. And Suinglius their chief capitain unto whom Tyndale swerved from Luther, because his heresy ferther blasphemeth the blessed sacrament/ was taken, slain, and burned/ and many by that mean returned from their heresies unto the true faith again. And yet god hath not done/ but what harm so ever such heretics as gods scourge be suffered to work for the while, his mercy shall not fail in conclusion, 
〈◊〉. 23, 1●.  both to provide for the perpetual safeguard of his catholic church (which he hath promised never to forsake/ but though he vysyt their iniquytees with the rod of correction, yet his grace and good will he hath warranted never to take from them) and also shall of his goodness turn again from their errors, some such as those malicious archeheretykes deceive/ and them whose malice he shall find uncurable he shall as an old naughty rod, before the face of his faithful children of his catholic church, when he hath beaten and corrected them therewith, do as the tender mother doth, break the rod in pieces & cast it in the fire. But now shall you see how Tindale goth forth, & declareth his solution  Tyndale. 
Under Abraham, Isaac, and jacob, was the church great in faith and small in numbered. And as it increased in numbered, so it decreased in faith until the time of Moses. And out of those unbelievers god stired up Moses, and brought then unto the right faith again. And Moses left a glorious church, and in faith and clea●ynge unto the word of god/ and delivered them unto josuah, ●leaz●●, Phineas, and Cale●. But as soon as the generation of them that saw the miracles of god were deed/ they fell to ●●olatrye immediately, as thou seyste in the bible. And god when he had delivered them into captivity for to chastise their wickedness/ stirred them up a prophet ever more, to call them unto his testament again. And so he did well nigh an hundred times I suppose yer Chryst came/ for they never bode any space in the right faith. And against the comy●ge of christ, the scribes Pharysees, Ca●ph●s, Anna, and the elders, were crept up in to the seat of Moses, Aaron, and the holy prophets and patriarchs and succeeded them ●inal●y, and had the scripture of god but even in c●ptyuyte, to make marchaun dy●e of it and to abuse it unto their own glory and profit. And though they kept the people from outward idolatry of worsheping of images with the ●ethen: yet they brought them in to a worse inward idolatry of a false faith & trust in their own deeds, and in vay●e traditions of their own feigning. And they had put out the significations of all the ceremonies and sacraments of the old testament, and taught the people to believe in the works self/ and had corrupt the scripture with ●al● gloss. As thou mayest see in the gospel, how christ warneth his disciples to be war of the seven of the Pharisees, which was their false doctrine and gl●ses. And in an other place he rebuked the scribes and the Pharisees, saying: woe be to them, because they had taken away the key of knowledge, and had shut up the kingdom of heaven, and neither would enter in themselves nor suff them that would. How had they shut it up? verily with their traditions and false gloss which they had sowed to the scripture in plain places/ and in the taking away the meaning of the ceremonies and sacrifices, and teaching to believe in the work.  More. 
Tyndale hath here made us a long discourse from Abraams' days unto christ showing that ever in time faith hath decayed. But he might for the purpose have begun at Adam a great deal afore Abraam/ and end at the day a doom a great while after christ.  
Now it is no new thing among more people to have more taught.  
But what availeth Tyndale all this tale/ proveth it any other but that yet that company was still, the church continued on from the beginning unto the birth of Chryst as saint austin orderly deduceth by a seryouse goodly process, in his book of the city of god?  
Now that many times god punished them/ so doth he now, & his mercy alway will, when his wisdom seeth it necessary what of all this?  
ye saith Tyndale but he reared up alway prophets in diverse times, an hundred to turn them home in to the right way again. Be it that he sent so many/ what helpeth this unto Tyndals' matter? For well we wot that all the faults of the people for which they were punished, and against which god sent so many prophets to preach, were not ever more idolatry/ but sometime other sins, 
 & specially the sin of the flesh for which the hole world was washed with noah's flood to purge the filth therefro/ and Sodom and Gomor burned up with brimstone for the foul sin of the flesh against the nature of the flesh. And now god will I fear find out yet some new more horrible tourment to punish and revenge the filthy sty●ke of the fleshly caring that hath cast his cou●agyouse corruption so far against god himself, that freres breaking their vows and wedded with nonnies, be so shameless to become preachers, & find wretched bestely people to bear it, and be content therewith.  
But now that god raised up so many prophets to call the people home/ what findeth Tyndale for his purpose therein? Findeth he that god raised any such as Luther● Suinglius, Huysken, and himself, that to call men from lechery become lechers, and abide thereby and to call men from error become heretics, & exhort men to heresye-Dyd god send any such? if he did, let Tyndale tell us one. If he did not/ whereof serveth his process of his hundred prophets?  
Also god punished his peole/ and then sent his prophets, not to make seditioned and sects among his people, but to govern and lead his whole flock and his whole people together. As he caused Moses to convey his hole people out of Egypte/ and the other prophets, judges, & priests after, in to the land of behest. was there ever any of those heretics whom the catholic church hath from the beginning condemned, that ever so did? Let Tyndale name us one.  
Then if he will say that every prophet did not so, but some did as he doth and such other as we call heretics, as wrongfully as if we called anew a sheep/ that is to say they did call upon the people, and win in some against the mind of the multitude and of the priests & princes: I say that those prophets agreed in their faith and preached a like. and then can not Tyndale and his companions whom we call heretics, be any such prophets sent us by god, sith of these never one agreeth with an other.  
Besides this, those old prophets proved themself by miracles to be messengers sent from god. But Luther, Tyndale, Huyskyn, and Suinglius, show no miracles at all to show themself messengers sent by god but by their evil doctrine clearly prove themself messengers sent by the devil.  
And finally as far as the church or synagogue of the jews was decayed in faith, or good living decayed by the false doctrine or false gloss of the scribes and pharisees, caiphass, Anna, and thelders'elders/ which were as Tyndale saith crept up into the seat of Moses, Aaron, and the holy prophets and patriarch against the coming of christ/ and whom christ for their false doctrine did rebuke: yet confesseth Tyndale himself, that they kept the people from outward idolatry of worshipping of idols with the heathen.  
And Tyndale must confess ferther, that neither scribes nor pharisees, nor pressed, nor elders, as he calleth them no nor youngers neither if he will have all the temporalty called youngers, as he will have all the clergy called elders/ were not even at the time all of one sort/ but as there were many naught of every sort, so was there of every sort right good folk also.  
And as for their traditions and doctrine, of which was many vain, some evil & some supersticious, whereby the people among them took harm in the following: such as were evil things were not so fully determined but that some were of one mind some of other/ and therein men might follow the best doctrine if they would, where in they had doctors and teachers to/ and might if they were desirous of the best, very well decern them concerning the glozing of scripture, by the old virtuous doctors that had in sundry ages long before the false expositions and false doctrine of the phariseis or false scribes began, truly construed and exponed both the law & the prohetes/ by whose expositions they might try and control the false doctrine of the naughty scribes & evil phariseis (for good scribes were there and good phariseis to/ as by the new testament appeareth). And that there were of old in every age such true doctors and expositors among the Jews, may well appear to every man that considereth variance in the expositions of the scripture, by the Jews that were of old before the birth of Christ, and them that exponed it after.  
And also Tyndale saith himself, that between the time of Moses and the coming of Christ/ god stirred up an hundred prophets. And therefore I am sure of the remnant beside the xii that we have, he meaneth for some, that kind of doctors and expositors that I speak of or else I ween he will come short of his whole sum, and lack five of his hundred.  
And thus though god did nat provide so fully for the church of the Jews, as for the church of christ/ as in which he hath provided and promised to dwell himself for ever: yet provided he for it so sufficiently, that they might therein be saved and enter heaven when it were after open/ and that in evil doctrine and superstitious traditions, they could nat be dampened, if they were desirous & diligent about their own soul health. And all be it that because the thing had than so great difficulty, that many for lack of sufficient diligence perished: god of his great mercy suffered not those naughty scribes & false phariseis to continue long/ but to make an easy way in which no man could be deceived except such as were over negligent or malicious, but should soon be learned the sure truth and undoubted way to heaven, sent his own son to begin a new church of a new fashion, of another manner of perfection/ in which he would so be present and assistant for ever himself and his own holy spirit, and so teach it and so lead it into every truth, that no man could be deceived, but he that would nat believe his chinch/ and he would make his church so open and so well known, that no man could but know it, except such as of malice would nat know it. And yet as I say, till himself did set up his church/ the synagogue was the very church/ and with such as were nat willingly blind, was known for the very church of god divided from all the world beside, by god's law, by governors of his assignment by true prophets, true preachers and miracles, for all the false prophets and false preachers that were therein beside. And the right faith was learned no where else. A●d who so had gone out of that church except only into Christ's/ had gone wrong.  
And thus it appeareth lo, that concerning the synagogue even at the coming of Chryst/ Tyndale hath here won little ground to build his purpose upon/ but that even there was yet at that time the very church and a church also known. And therefore when he goth now ferther and resembleth it unto the known catholic church of Chryst though they were like: yet were Tyndale overthrown. But now when ye shall here the remanant ye shall see Tyndale fall ever deeper and deeper in the mire. For lo thus creepeth he forward like a crab.  Tyndale. 
In like manner is the clergy crept up in to the seat of Chr●ste and his apostles by succession/ not to do the deeds of christ and his apostles, but ●or lucre only/ as the nature of the wily f●●●e is to get him an hole made with an other beasts labour, and to make merchandise of the people ●yth feigned words, as Peter warned us before/ and to do according as christ and all his apostles prophesied, how they should beguile and ●ede out of the ryghtewaye all them that did not love to follow and live a●ter the truth.  More. 
Tyndale here good reader plainly confesseth himself, that the clergy be those which (though he call it creeping) be by succe●syon here in earth comen into the seat of Chryst and his apostles. Now can not Tyndale nor will not I wot well say nay, but that while christ intended not that himself and his apostles should for ever personally dwell still here in earth conversant with us in like manner as they were while they lived here among us/ and yet intended that his church here in earth should alway have among them teachers and preachers/ sith he intended that his church should as Tyndale agreeth as long last in earth as the world should endure/ & none other hath there been had sins Christ's days and his apostles in christendom, but the clergy by continual succession: then hath ever the clergy of every age been that part of Christ's very church, to whom christ specially spoke, speaketh, and ever shall speak these words, 
 Go ye and preach the gospel to all creatures. And also these words: who so heareth you heareth me/ and who so despiseth you despiseth me. And these words also, 
 who so receive you receiveth me/ and what so ever city receive you not, Sodom and Gomorre shall be more easily dealt with then that city in the day of judgement.  
And also sith they must be the teachers/ it followeth that they be & must be that part of his church, to which part these words were also specially spoken: 
 I shall send you the holy ghost which shall teach you all truth and lead you into every truth/ and I am with you myself unto 
 the worlds end.  
For though god in these words promised to send his spirit, nat into the clergy only but into his whole catholic church/ nor to be with his clergy only, but also with his whole catholic church/ nor to lead his clergy only into every troth, but the lay people of his church also: yet sith he ꝓuided specially the clergy to be the preachers, of whose mouth the lay people should here the truth/ by mean of which hearing with their own good endeavour, god would himself write it in the herers' hearts/ which order of coming to the faith appeareth plainly, by sundry places of holy scripture/ as where saint Paul saith, 
 Faith is made by hearing. And how shall a man here without preaching/ And how shall a man preach but if he be sent to preach. And than that a man m●st at the hearing do his own good endeavour, Christ saith, 
 Be thou nat an unbilever but a believer. And that he than writeth himself in the heart witnesseth the prophet jeremy: 
 I shall write my law in their hearts. In which place he saith speaking of the church of Christ, Every man shall nat teach his neighbour, 
 but they shall all be the scholars of god, and I shall write my law in their hearts: he meaneth nat that there shall be no preaching, for that were ye wot well contrary to the words of saint Paul/ but he meaneth thereby the teaching which the preacher teacheth, without which saint Paul showeth that they can nat ordinarily come to the faith, is yet no teaching whereof any fru●e can cum/ but if god therewith write upon the heart, which he never faileth to do if the party do his part, and be not by his negligence or frowardness the let.  
And all be it that these words of the prophet be specially spoken for the difference, between the old law that was called the law written, because that Moses received and delivered the law by writing/ and the new law whereof christ neither received nor delivered any part by writing: yet may those words well serve for this purpose also, sith the troth of them is also in this point veryfyed/ to which troth saint Poule subscrybeth, 
●. ●●rint●. 12.  where he saith that no man can say and confess our lord jesus but by the holy ghost.  
Now these things I say being thus, though god write in the hearts of every sort of his catholic church as well the lay people as the clergy, as well women as men, and so teach them inwardly and l●de them into every necessary troth: yet sith the preacher must have it ere he preach it/ and must preach it ere the hearer here it/ and the preachers by Christ's order must be, or at the lest wise by tyndal's own confession in deed be thorough christendom none but the clergy/ nor of troth hither to none but the clergy have be, nor as appeareth by many plain places of scripture none but the clergy may be the ordinary mynystres of gods holy words and sacraments unto the people/ it must I say upon Tyndals' confession needs follow that of all the words of god before remembered, which so ever our saviour said unto his whole church, yet ever he said it principally to the clergy and so by tyndal's own confession, sith that the clergy be the successors of Chryst and his apostles/ and be for the governance of Christ's church now in his and his apostles place: Tyndale is bounden by Christ's word to receive them, here them, and obey them. And in that he will not so do, but in stead of receiving them refuseth them, in stead of hearing them mocketh them, and in stead of obayenge them despiseth them and persecuteth them, and teacheth his false heresies contrary to the truth that christ hath by his holy spirit according to his own promise taught them: he is fallen I say into the malediction & curse of Chryst, that hath ordained them/ and on Tindals' head falleth that fearful word of christ, 
●ucae. 1●.  He that heareth you heareth me, and he that despiseth you despiseth me/ and he that heareth not the church, take him for a publican & a very painym/ and in better case shall Sodom and Gomor be, 
Matthe. 13. ●  than he shall at the day of judgement. 
Luce. 1●.  And thus hath Tyndale denounced his own damnation himself, plainly pursuing upon his own confession.  
Now if Tindale will peradventure say, that it is in the clergy now as it was in the scribes & phariseis in Christ's time/ and that as they and that people were than fallen from the truth into false errors, so be now the clergy and the christian people: I have all ready showed him the plain scriptures, in which god hath made many such plentiouse promises of his assistance with his holy spirit in his church, perpetually to keep it from all damnable errors, by teaching it and leading it into every troth/ that though he suffer many great piecis of people to fall out thereof, and so little & little the body to be minished & made a small flock in comparison, till his pleasure shallbe to increase it again yet shall he never neither suffer it to be destroyed/ nor the flock that remaineth how many branches so ever the devil blow of, to be brought unto the scarcite either of faith or virtue, that the synagogue of the Jews was at Christ's coming/ though there never was any time long together, nor never shall there be/ but that in Christ's church as long as it dwelleth in earth there shallbe many nought, yet shall always the doctrine of his church with which himself hath always promised to be, 
 & lead it into every troth, be so good and so sure, that unto those that shall be well willing to learn the truth, it shall alway be known where they may learn it/ & that for the clering of all doubts and avoiding of all errors, it shall ever be true to say that the church is as saint Paul saith, 
1. 〈◊〉 ●.  the pylar & the foot or ground/ that is to say the sure strength or fastening of the truth. And this church must be that known catholic church/ of which from age to age the scripture hath been received, and the people taught/ and not a church unknown of only good men or elects only, in which is neither preacher nor people assembled to preach unto, nor sacraments ministered by any man as a minister of that unknown church, nor people of an unknown church to minister them unto/ among whom can be no such assemble● for no man can know where to call another, nor how to know another if they came together by hap.  
And thus I say that neither can Tyndale stand by his unknown church, nor for his purpose sufficiently resemble the catholic church of christ unto the synagogue of the jews, nor the clergy of the tone to the scribes and pharisees of the t'other/ sith god gave these two churches not like beginning/ nor Moses that was the lawyer & beginner of the tone, was not like unto Crist the beginner & lawyer of the t'other/ nor the promises of god concerning his assistance & preserving, were not like in the tone church & the t'other. And yet by Tyndale, god had so little regarded his great promises in that point, that where as the scribes & pharisees had been but a while in respect, & god had sent the synagogue sundry prophets, & christ hasted to come because they should not deceive long: god had suffered the catholic church of his own only bygoten son to be as falsely deceived & worse to, & ferther to be led out of the right way into errors & into damnation, more than this viii. C. year together, without any man sent to show them the right understanding of scripture & the right way, by any such mean as the people might perceive that the man were comen from god/ but one of them always varying fro the doctrine of an other and all varying fro the doctrine of all the saints, whom god had proved his messengers by miracles/ whereof these men showed none at all, and yet the most part ever as they were examined and oppossed, abjured their own doctrine to. And thus as I say Tyndale can not resemble the clergy of Crystes church to the scribes and pharisees of the jews church.  
But yet if Tyndale stick so sore thereto, that he will needs have them like/ and while he can never prove it, will yet with great words and oaths happily to, bear me down right still in hand it is so: let us to stop his mouth with, grant him for this once that it were so/ & see than what he could yet get thereby, that for his purpose were well worth a fly.  
Though it so were in deed/ yet must Tyndale be bound to obey them perdie, as farforth at the lest as christ commanded the jews to obey the t'other.  
Than if Tyndale will say that it can extend no ferther, then even barely to as farforth as they teach & preach the gospel truly/ and that every man and woman whom they teach and to whom they preach, may say not only to one of them that he constreweth the scripture wrong & teacheth the people false, but also that the same teaching of that one man being examined and affirmed for true by the whole clergy assembled together, ye and by the princes and the lords, and by both the learned and unlearned lay people to, may yet tell them upon Tyndals' mouth or Luther's, that they lie everichone/ & all the clergy falsely constreweth the scripture, and all the temporalty foolishly followeth their construction/ and so the tone blind with malice leadeth the other blind with folly into the dych of damnation/ and there they lie tumbling together, while this lightsome elect of Tyndale that shall tell all the church this tale, seeth plainly the troth/ and is illumined by Luther, Tyndale, frere Huyskyn, or Suynglius, and lawgheth the folly of all the known catholic church to scorn: if Tyndale come to this point, he will at the lest wise ever give us leave to resort to the jews synagogue, with the scribes and the pharisees, to which he resembleth us.  
Now let us thenne imagine that Tyndale as he was borne heathen and chrystened in England, so had been borne a paynim & circumcised in Jerusalem, four year before the birth of Christ, by the reason that being at years of discretion, & hearing of the stories & the temple & manners of the jews, he had of devotion suddenly fallen into their synagogue, and dwelled in Jerusalem/ whereupon yet after his circumcision considering that there were among them divers sorts & sects, as pharisees and saducees, and scribes and levities, and priests, and lay people/ and though they were all jews and agreed in circumcision, and came of old all of one stock, yet be now severed asunder in doctrine and in belief, and that not in small things but in such things as the one sect did reckon and account the t'other to stand in great error and damnable: what would Tyndale have done in this case? would he without any other reder have taken the books of their scriptures into his own hand/ and thereof without any credence given unto any man, pike out the troth by himself? he should have therein a very hard work/ and were very likely to frame himself a new faith in many great things, agreeing with no man but with himself. Then shall he find also divers counsels in the same scriptures, forbidding him that foolish proud fashion of study & ●ernynge/ and bidding him that he shall not lean unto his own wite. 
  
Then would he of lykelyhed have had recourse to them, and inquire of them the solution of those dowties. For out of the church or synagogue of the jews, it is not likely that ever he would have looked to have the truth of those dowtes determined, which dowtes rise up their law and upon the construction of their scriptures.  
And also considering the miracles that god had so great and so many very oftentimes showed in every age for that synagogue, and that in that synagogue some continued still, such as himself had seen in the pole of the temple serving for the sacrifice: he might still have thought that in the synagogue of the jews, both had been & then were yet, the very true way both of belief and living, and in none other church. And then could he not doubt but that in the same synagogue, were some good folk alway that had the very truth/ of which part of that synagogue if he might happen, he should surely know the troth.  
Now seemeth me that it should have been no great mastery for him then to find them out. For it is no doubt but that if he should have taken unto him such as were called cunning, twain at once at good lays●ure, one on the tone side and an other of the t'other/ as for ensample on the tone side the proud pharasy that despised the publican; and on the other side Gamalyell: now where as the proud pharasey would have told him for his part, we have with us master Tyndale of the scribes and the pharisees the more part, and we have men of honest and good living, and well learned in the law and in the scripture, and that are also the rulers/ and therefore it is most reason in the construction of the scripture, and the faith and manners depending thereupon, ye should believe us: Gamalyell would have told him again, ye M. Tyndale/ but I am a pharysey as well as he/ and there are on our side though not so many, yet pharisees and scribes and rulers of the people to, both as good, as honesty and as well learned also both in the law and in the scripture, as the best of all them be. And where he can not himself say that his part passeth us by nothing but by number/ I shall prove you that in th● number self they be far fewer than we/ and that yet besyde●● that, we far pass them in things of far greater weight.  
For M. Tyndale as late as ye were circumcised, yet this ●ote ye well yourself/ or at the least wise ye think it is so that god hath stirred up among us sins the time of Moses almost an hundred prophets. And surely he hath stirred up very many/ of whom beside the xii that are accomp●ed in part of our scripture, we have many of sundry ages passed, in whose books we find written expositions & comments upon our scriptures/ and those men were good & holy men/ & for whom god showed many great miracles, and for none of our adversaries he never showed one. And in their old books find we that in the points for which these men and we vary now a days, those old prophets and interpreters of the scripure were of the mind that we be, and the people of their times to, till that these men of the other side brought in this new doctrine which is untrue, but even now of late in comparison of the long time in which the contrary was taught by holy men, and believed by the people afore. So that this being weighed & considered/ we pass them in number, time, and miracles/ that is to say beside the length of time and the number of men, we pass their part by one whose eternity passeth all time, & whose infinity passeth all number, that is almighty god himself/ which hath for thexpositors of our part, many times by miracles declared his favour against those that expowne the scripture on their part, for whom he never showed none.  
For as for the miracles done in the temple, 
 or in the temple pole, they can nat draw to their part against us/ sith they be nat showed to declare the truth of any particular man/ but only to give knowledge that the church or synagogue of the jews, is the church of god here in earth/ in which as well we as they, that is to wit as well the tr●w as the false, as well the good as the bad be for the while together, till Messiah come that shall make a new church, a greater and a better ● and the true from the false moche better known to.  
I doubt nat but Tyndale should at that time among the jewis in jerusalem have herd his doubt disputed and debated thus. And than could he nat with any good reason have doubted, but that the false phariseis had been well answered by the true/ and so should he have known even than of the very church there, which part he should have believed, though the thing had sum difficulty there, because the sundry sects abode still together/ but y● it the continuance and succession of the truth from the beginning, should into that darkness have cast a me●ely good ●●ght.  
Now if Tindale will here deny me and say that ●here were no such holy men of them, that from age to age left any such books behind them: when so ever he so shall answer me, he shall then here what I shall say more unto him. But as for this time I shall not need to let therefore.  
For though there had not been such in dede● nor that Tyndale could not have hard any man in Jerusalem at that time, that could have told him that tale & proved his tale true: yet shall Tindale never be able to w●●hstand it, but that if it had been so answered and so proved, he had been than well and with good reason satisfied. Against which if he had not rebelled, but endeavoured himself for his own ●●rte to be pliable to the troth/ god should have wrought with him into the full consent and belief thereof.  
Now say I than, that sith that answer if 〈◊〉 might have been proved true, should & of reason ought, ●o h●ue contented Tyndale at that time in Jerusalem, concerning the church of the jews: he shall never avoid it here, but that in the known catholic church of christ though we leave of the promises of god made unto this church, 
Matt●. 1●. 28.  by which promises it appeareth clearly that he will n●ue● suffer it to come to such a confusyon or dyf●ycultye/ye● if it it did and were in that point like ●nto the church that the jews had against the coming of christ, infected by many false folk with false doctrine, and the scripture adulterate and vi●iate with false gloss and wrong expositions/ and that they which so had marred all, were crept up in to the place of christ and his apostles, and were waxen a great deal the more part of those that had the authority in their hands/ and thereby had miss led the people both in to wrong belief and wrong ways of living/ making them to ween that they did well when they did nought: if it were I say comen in the catholic church even unto this point/ which thing god keeping his promises afore remembered were more than twice impossible to happen/ yet if it so were in deed as Tyndale lieth and falsely sayeth it is, yet unto folk that long to know the troth, it could nat be but perceived easily which doctrine were the troethe/ that is to wit whither theirs that thus were crept up and had falsely taught, or else such true men as would rebuke and reprove them/ and teach the people the contrary, and conster the scripture otherwise  
whereby should it be perceived will sum man say, surely well, and plainly by this way.  
God hath sith the death of Christ and his apostles, stirred up in his known catholic church I dare well say, many more than an hundred prophets/ whom he hath with moo than a thousand miracles declared to be his messengers. Now of these holy doctors and prophets we have the books of every age, sum from the death of Christ's apostles even unto our own tyme. Now might it than by their books be perceived, that these folk now crept up as Tyndale sayeth by succession into the place and seat of Christ and his apostles, as the scribes and pharisees were at Christ's coming crept up into the seat of Moses'/ did in doctrine & exposition of scripture, agree with those old holy doctors and prophets of every age and time/ or else contemned and contraryed them● and in faith and living began a new diverse & contrary doctrine of their own, in things necessary to salvation, or peryllice toward damnation. And than if they so did, and that there came other that would call men home from their evil doctrine and from their false expositions of scripture whereupon the false doctrine dependeth, unto the old doctrine and old true declaration of scripture/ in which those old holy doctors/ and as saint Paul saith prophets upon scripture, did consent & agree: by this mark I say might it be perceived & known, whither part were the true, & whither part were the false.  
Let us now than setting for the while all other marks aside, of which there are very many: let us I say consider but this mark alone/ for even this mark alone shallbe sufficient to discern & know the church now for the true part, and Tyndale and Luther and all their sects for the very plain false.  
For al●e it that Luther in the beginning professed in his writing, that he would stand for the proof of his doctrine, unto the trial of those old holy doctors and prophets of every age/ weening that men for the delight of the new school matters, neglected the old holy doctors, and listed not to look upon them: yet when he saw himself deceived, & his devilish doctrine by the writing of the old holy saints of every age brought out on every side, utterly thrown down & over whelmed/ then began he to change his tale and swore from them, & set their authority clear at nought, and wrote that he cared not for tene austins, nor for an hundred hierom's/ nor for as many saint Cypryanies. For he said he was sure that he had his doctrine from heaven/ and that the scripture what so ever all they said, was plain and clear for him.  
And thus though some of these folk be glad to catch a patch of an old saints saying sometime, if they may mangle it and make it seem to serve any thing for them: yet may ye clearly perceive by their master Martin Luther himself, that they can not say nay themself, but that the consent of the old holy saints, is with the catholic church, plain against their devilish doctrine.  
And this point themself so clearly perceive to be perceived and known/ that they begin to make in a manner mocks openly/ and give the people counsel to give little credence to the old holy saints writings/ & they scoff at them that against such heresies allege them/ and in this manner they ●este and say in their sermons: men lay forth now a days unto you for the proof of their doctrine the old saints, and call them fathers/ but we lay for our doctrine the Evangelists, and apostles, and christ himself/ and these be grandfathers. And therefore as they cry unto you father's fathers, we cry unto you grandfathers grandfathers which are much more to be believed than those fathers.  
Here is lo a goodly false foolish fallace, to beguile the poor unlearned people/ with turning their minds from the point that is in question, and make them gaze & muse upon an other thing/ and ween that the clergy would have them think, that the old holy doctors were more to be believed then christ and his apostles themself. where as in deed the question standeth in this, whither the old holy doctors and saints whom we call the fathers, ●e better to be believed in the construction and the understanding of christ and his apostles and the old prophets to, whom we be content that these men call grandfathers and great grandfathers to/ or else these young new naughty nephews, that make themself graciou●e godly, and wise, that they can tell all thing from afore the wo●lde was wrought, & their fathers so graceless & so foolish, that they neither had grace, learning, nor wit to perceive any thing at all, what the writing of their grandfathers meant.  
Also that these folks doctrine can not agree with the old holy doctors/ appeareth plain, by this that these m●n teach & renew the self same old rotten heresies, which those holy doctors by their full consent & agreement cōdempned● both in great assembled counsels, & by their own books severally made against them, as against their heresies y● the● now teach against free will, against presthed, ag●●nste penance, against that other sacraments, agaynt vows, against holy days, & fasting days, & specially the ●ent, against general counsels, & against the catholic church and many an other abominable heresy beside.  
Of this consent of the holy doctors & saints against their heresies, cometh this envy & hatred that these heretics bear unto them all again so great, that lest men should because they be saints have their doctrine the more in reverence & estimation, they have devised a new heresy, wherewith they would make men believe that there were none of them all yet in heaven. And lest their malice & envy toward them should appear, & the cause also wherefore they bear i●●f they should so say, be no more saints but those that were writers & doctors of the church: they let not to say the same utterly of all the remanant, our blessed lady & all, the except our saviour himself, there is none yet in heaven at all● neither in body nor soul. And lest men might think that if there were purgatory, some went from thence to heaven among/ that is one of the causes, why they put that there is no purgatory neither. Then sith they see that if go● give yet before domys day unto no man, reward & bliss for his faith & good life, it were hard to think that being so liberal, good, and merciful as he is, he would be more prone to punish then to reward/ & for their evil deeds or infidelity before that day, send men into pain therefore till domys day: they would have the world believe there were none hell neither, for any soul of man.  
And then lest they should be driven to confess that the● believe the thing, which if they durst for shame show I ween they believe in deed/ & will hereafter come forth withal if they may get once their other heresies in men's hearts fastly first confirmed: lest they should before I say be driven to confess, that they believe the soul to be mortal, and utterly die with the body/ they say for the while that until domes day, they lie still all and sleep/ as Luther writeth plainly in a sermone upon the gospel of the rich glutton and Lazare.  
And therefore if we tell them of that story of Abraam, Dives, & Lazarus, the twain in rest and wealth the third in fire and flame, the story that christ telleth himself/ they call it but a parable, and almost make a pot at it.  
Then all apparitions they mock at/ and all the miracles they blaspheme, and say the devil doth all. And thus while thaffection of these heretics to the old heresies, maketh them to decline from the old holy doctors that ever condemned those heresies, and against their expositions construe the scripture wrong: the devil hath driven them down much ferther, and made them fall to blasphemy against god's saints and his miracles, and give the honour of gods great works unto the devil, 
Matth. 12.  as the very worst sort of the jews did/ and unto all their old heresies to link an whole chain of new, such as the worst and the most shameless sort of heretics that ever were of old, would have been yet ashamed to think upon.  
If Tyndale deny that himself and all their sects be against all the old holy doctors, and all the old holy doctors against them: he can not say nay but that beside the abominable wedding of freres and nuns, Luther confesseth himself in his babylonica, that all the old doctors are against him, in his heresy that he holdeth against the canon of the mass.  
And so for conclusion of this point, that Tyndale may see what he hath won with his resembling of the catholic church unto the synagogue of the jews that was at the coming of christ/ and the clergy of the catholic church to the scribes and pharisees that then were in the synagogue/ he hath now by occasion of that resemblance luckily founden out, that though these heretics did still dwell with the church, and neither departed away themself nor the church did vomit and spew them out/ but that the true and the false though they taught diversely and contrary, continued yet still together as they did in the synagogue of the jews: yet this one mark alone of the old holy doctors of the catholic church, condemning the heresies of Tyndale and Luther and all their other sects, clearly would give a light, by which the true doctrine might be known from the false. And therefore this mark alone as openly marketh Luther, & Tyndale, & Hu●skyn, and Suynglyus, and all the rabble of their follows, for open & plain heretics/ as if the devil had his own hands marked each of them an. H. in the forehead, with a fair hot iron fet out of the fire of hell.  
This one mark which Tyndale hath here caused to be founden out, doth yet furthermore shake of all his railing and scoffing, and rejecteth them and casteth them all back again, & maketh them everichone to fall upon his own pate.  
For by thexpositions of the old holy saints/ we know that the words of saint Peter/ with which Tyndale here raileth upon the church, 
 were by saint Peter spoken against such heretics, as taught opinions against the church/ as plainly appeareth by many old doctors of the church.  
And also the very words of saint Peter will declare the same. For he saith that those false lying masters, shall be the bringers in of damnable sects. whereby it well appeareth, that he speaketh against those archheretykes, which against the one catholic church, which in the necessary points of the faith agreeth and ever hath agrreed well in one together, by that holy spirit of god which by Christ's promise leadeth it into every necessary truth, 
 & maketh all of one mind in that house/ do bring and have brought an hundred sundry sects of her●syes erroneous false and untrue, whereof neither any one consenteth with another, nor among them all one man almost with another.  
And where saint Peter saith, that many men shall follow their damnable abominations/ that is so clearly v●ryfyed in these heretics now, that all the world hath cause to weep that it is so well spied.  
Also where he saith that by them the way of troth shall be blasphemed/ is very manifest & open, specially in these new heretics as Luther, & Tyndale, Huyskyn, & S●inglyus / which nat only blaspheme among them the old holy doctors & saints, & the miracles of god, wrought and showed by them, for the stablishing of the truth: but also Christ himself in the blessed sacrament/ which is as himself saith, both the way and the troth, and the life therewith.  
And when he speaketh of avarice and feigned words/ as for feigned words they use none other, if plain falls be feigned/ as appeareth by their plain false heresies against the blessed sacraments.  
And as for avarice, though many of them fall at the last to beggary, by the very vengeance of god full sore against their wills: yet see we well enough how greedily the pedeling knaves that here bring over their ●okes, gryspe about an half penny, and had almost as leave hang up his evangelical brother as lose a penny by him.  
And sir Tho. Bold, reported here their lyd●ralytye very well. For beside much other evangelical avatyce, he told us here, that all be it he saw gold great plenty in Tyndals' purse/ yet could he get but one small piece to go out of Almaigne unto London on his errand, both to sow his evangelical seed, & to steel an evangelical book out of a poor frere's library/ and when he had stolen it then bring it into Almaigne to him. And for all this long labour of his going, & his business of tilling and sowing, and besides that his lygyer demayne in stealing, whereof a man might hap to fall to hanging/ he could as he said get of Tyndale no more for all this gear, but one poor piece of gold.  
Now as for making of merchandise, that saint Peter speaketh of and Tyndale here layeth against the clergy of the catholic church/ what merchandise these heretics make I can not well tell. But this is well known, that when our evangelical english heretics fall in acquaintance beyond the see with some of our merchant's factors/ they milk them so evangelycally, that when their masters call them home, they give them a very shrewd reckoning.  
And surely as all the words of saint Peter with which Tyndale here jesteth against the catholic church, were by saint Peter spoken against these heretics only: so will these words of his at last be verified plain upon them, in which he sayeth that the judgement ceaseth not, but is ready a good while a go against them/ & their perdition sleepeth not but waketh and grouneth for them.  
But as for that that Tyndale saith, that the clergy creeping into the seat of Christ and his apostles by succession, do as the wily fox doth, whose nature is to enter into an hole made with an other be'st: I can nat well perceive what he meaneth by his wily similitude of the wily fox. For sith he sayeth they come into the place by successiou/ he layeth nat any invasion, or intrusion, or other unlawful coming therein to. And as for their wiliness in following the wiliness of the fox, whose nature is to get him an hole made with an other beasts labour: he can nat mean any thing to the purpose that I can perceive/ but if he mean to mock the words of our saviour himself, which saith to his apostles themself, both for themself and all that should by succession in their office follow them that they should in a mane● follow the nature of the fox in that fashion. For he said unto them● I have sent you to reap that that ye laboured not/ for other men laboured, and ye have entered upon their labours.  
And therefore I can nat divine what mystery Tyndale meaneth by his following of the wily fox, whose nature is he sayeth to get him an hole made with an other beasts labour. Nor I purpose nat to lose the time in musing what he may mean thereby, nor to be so curious & inquisitive as to● inquire whither peradventure he have found out any such fashion in Saxony, that their priests, their freres, and their monks use there in their marriages that wily manner of the wily fox. How be it in deed such as come thence/ unasked say they do, and commonly can do none other.  
Now where he saith that the clergy do enter for only lucre/ he taketh upon him to judge the power of god, in judging every man's mind/ but if he think it a sufficient proof that they come thereto for nothing else, because they say nat take away the lands and all the fruits from the benefice, or else I will none of it. As though the apostle said nat himself, that reason would they should have their living by the altar/ ye and though he counseled them to be content with bare meat and drinks and clothing/ yet said he that one of them doing their duty, 
Timoth. 5.  is worthy the double that another man is.  
Nay saith Tyndale. For they govern not well, nor do not as saint Poule saith, sow spiritual things. For they be saith Tyndale false teachers, and do beguile & lead out of the right way, all them that have no love to follow and live after the truth.  
Let Tyndale here speak out, and tell us which truth is that that the people love not to follow and live after/ & that therefore god suffereth the clergy to lead them out of the right way far wrong. This truth is good christian reader a very false truth/ whereof not only the clergy now but th'apostles also themself, ever clearly taught the contrary/ as that folk should not pray for their father's souls nor do penance for their own sins, nor honour the blessed body of christ in the blessed sacrament, nor set by no sacrament else, but call incesteouse lechery good and lawful marriage, have holy vows in derision/ & in dyspyght of matrimony and vowed chastity both to pollute them both at ones, wed freres and nuns together.  
Lo these things & such other are the sure tried truths ye wot well, that Tyndale would have the people believe & live after/ and the spiritual things which he complaineth that the clergy will not preach. which spiritual seed because they will not sow/ he would they should reap none of our carnal corn/ nor not only be reckoned unworthy to receive as saint Poule saith, the double advantage that an other man should, but also to receive so much by Tyndales will, as an other man's old clouted shone. And yet the mark that we spoke of, of the old holy doctors & saints, marketh him from the church for a plain heretic in these pestilent points to. And that they all so do/ he knoweth himself so well, that I think as shameless as he is he will not for very shame say nay. But now runneth he forth and raileth on ferther thus.  Tyndale. 
And in like manner have they corrupt the scripture, and blinded the right way, with their own constytutions, with traditions of dumb ceremonies, with the taking away the signyfycacy●ns of the sacraments to make us believe the work of the sacraments first, whereby they might the better believe in works of their own setting up afterward.  More. 
Now would I that Tyndale should here have rehearsed with what constitutions of their own the church hath corrupted the scripture, and blinded the right way. How be it he may say that I am to blame to bid him rehearse them again he hath rehearsed them so often all ready/ as ordering that men should have matins and mass, and keep the sunday and sum other holy days, and that they should be bound to keep fasting days, and namely as Tyndales fellow Brightwell saith, whom sum folk call Fryth, the folyssh fast of the Lent/ whereby there is taken away the evangelical liberty, that folk may nat eat f●essh on good friday for compassion of Christ's passion.  
And with this ordinance be they wonder wroth/ as though the church ordained that folk should destroy themself with forbearing their meat/ and kill themself with abstinence. And yet are the laws of the church mitigated and made easy with exceptions and liberties almost moo than enough/ providing for sick men, children, old men, labourers, pilgrims, nursies, women with child and poor folk, and well near as far as men might go/ but if these heretics be angry that the church had nat provided for gorbely gluttons to, that they might cast in and cast up gorge upon gorge, and with a full belly before they be an hungered, pampre in their pawnches a fresh.  
And yet in this point to, the mark that I spoke of● of the old holy saints, doth mark these men for heretics. For these ordinances are nat bygon by the clergy that now is, nor by the clergy of this eight hundred year passed/ but hath been bygon and continually kept and obserued● from above a thousand year, ye fourteen hundred year, ye from the days of the apostles themself/ and began also by themself, as it not only doth appear plain by other autentyque writing, but verily well also by the very scripture itself, as I partly have all ready showed, and partly shall yet hereafter.  
Than saith he that the clergy hath blinded the right way with dumb ceremonies. yet ask I Tyndale here again which clergy, and which ceremonies? I say that in this point again, the mark that himself made me find out, the old holy doctors and saints, mark him for an heretic and a liar both.  
For it is evident and open, that great part of the ceremonies which the church useth now, were of old used in the time of the eldest of them, and before the eldest of them to/ and that such ceremonies came from the apostles themself. And Tindale never brought out yet either book, lief, or line, to prove us one wo●de of all his bybyll babble true, that ever the ceremonies that he calleth now dumb, spoke ever in old time so much as a mum, more than they do now. Truth it is that men might then make allegories of them, and so may they now, and so many preachers do, & so doth that good man that made the book of Rationale divinorum/ with which kind of allegories Tyndale cometh forth in his book of disobedience, in such a goodly fashion as it seemeth y● but if the priest always tell that tale to the people, he would have the people pull the priest from the altar, and the amiss from his head.  
But to what purpose he maketh all this brabbling upon dumb ceremonies, appeareth well upon the next word after, where he saith that the church hath taken away the signification from the sacraments. yet I ask Tyndale again which church, and which significations? Let us go again to our old mark/ and I dare lay a wager with him, he shall find no more signyfycations of the sacraments in the books of the eldest of all the old holy doctors and saints, than I shall find him in the books of every age now this two or three hundred years from Easter last passed upward, and so forth in the other ages next above that, till he cum to the old time of that holy doctor whom so ever himself will allege. And than it well appeareth pard, that the clergy that now is, hath taken away no significations of the sacraments at all.  
we will also demand of Tyndale, sith he saith that the clergy hath taken away the significations of the sacraments/ whither were those significations that they have taken away, necessary to salvation or not. If they were nat/ then is there not so great loss of them. And on the other side if they were so necessary, that without the knowledge of them the things that we be commanded to do, and which we may nat without disobedience of good leave undone, be bycomme noyous, superstycoyuse, and damnable/ than sith as many such significations as be written in the scripture, do remain still and be preached: the t'other of whose taking away Tyndale complaineth being necessary for salvation to be known, were never written in scripture. 
Actuum. 5.  And then falsifieth himself his own doctrine, that no such necessary thing was by th'apostles left unwritten.  
If he say that more than have their special significations written in scripture, be not necessary: therein will not only the mark that we spoke of of the old holy saints, mark him for an heretic/ but so will the very scripture to, by which it appeareth that all the six sacraments were by god given to his church, as things by god's institution necessary for man's salvation/ in such wise at the lest wise as the neglecting and contempt of the grace that god giveth in them, is able to bring the dyspyser to damnation.  
But it appeareth clearly what holy purpose Tyndale hath in this matter. For he speaketh not so much of the significations, for any ca●e that he careth for the significations/ but only because he would have us ●ake the sacraments for no thing else, but only for the bare signs of some lost significations/ and therefore as things not only nought worth and superfluous, but also supersticious and noyous.  
And in this wise would he make us ween, that for the sacraments we were never the better/ and that to take them for any other thing than a bare token, and to think that the blessed sacrament of the altar were the very body and blood of christ, or any thing else than wine and cake breed set up for a bare sign, as a taverners bush or tapysters a●e stake, were a very supersticious thing/ and not only perilous he saith for the thing in itself, but also because it might hap to be a mean to make us believe, that the things which the church calleth good works, were any thing fruitful or meritorious. And which works be those trow ye? fasting, & watching in prayou● & doing of almose deeds. were it not a perilous thing to believe that such things would do us good? being done as the catholic church teacheth us to do them, to believe that none of them all c●n get us any reward in heaven of the nature of the deed itself, but only because the liberal goodness of god hath appointed such a reward there to, thorough the merits of our savyours' passion/ and that yet we may well fere in all our good deeds, such imperfection upon our own part in the doing, that it shall percase have no such reward at all/ and for all that fear, hope well and pray therewith, that the goodness of god supply upon his part, the due perfection requisite that lacketh upon our own part. Is nat this doctrine of such belief and trust in good works so perilous, that rather than men might be the rather drawn into good works therewith, Tyndale should make us take all the seven sacraments and cast them clean away/ which he saith in more places than one, be now not only fruitless, but also harmful and perilous? In which point every man marketh well, that yet again the mark that we spoke of, the comen consent of the old holy doctors and saints, mark this man for a very mischievous heretic.  
And ever this the farther he walketh, the deeper is this mark printed in his forehead/ that he can never wander so far out of the way, but the devil will well enough by that mark perceive him and challenge him for his own. For lo thus goth he forth,  Tyndale. 
And with false gloss which they have patched to the scripture in plain places to destroy the lyterale sense, for to set up a false feigned sense of allegories when there is none such/ and thereby they have stopped up the gates of heaven, the true knowledge of christ, and have made their ●wn belies the door. For thorough their belies m●ste thou creep, and there leave all thy fat behind the.  More. 
If Tyndale have yet railed enough/ glad would I be to have him come once to some reason. For as for his creeping thorough folks belies, whereof he so sore complaineth: I would he had declared how he crept in, and into whose mouth he crept, and by what craft he scaped the teeth for biting, and how long he lay in the belly, and how he gate down thorough the small guts, and in the creeping out what stykking his face found beneath, & how much grease he left there behind him/ & for the belly grease that he left behind him, whither he brought out any gut grease with him. For such foolish testing and railing as he maketh here upon the clergy, might any knave have made upon the apostles in the beginning, when every man that came into christendom, did give all that ever he had in to their hands all together, and kept himself right nought, 
 nor durst not upon pain of death after the vengeance of god fallen upon Ananyas and Saphyra for keeping part of their own a side for themself. Then might lo some such as Tyndale is now, have ray●ed & said to any that were willing to come in to christendom, Brother beware of the apostles, for thorough their belies must thou creep, & there leave all thy fat behind the.  
And as it seemeth, some such fellow began to sow such seed of evil rumour among the people against th'apostles even than, and set some suspycyouse or inquyete minds upon grudging.  
Nor I can not now so greatly see, who is compelled to be at so great cost with the clergy. Such as have of the●r own make no great exactions bysyde that I he●e of. And such as nought have of their own, yet is no man compelled to give them aught but of his own devotion & charity/ which yet such heretics have in some places not a little cooled, and in some places utterly quenched● when the people see them so bestely to break their vows and wed.  
Now where he sayeth that the clergy useth to destroy the literal sense of the scripture with false feigned allegories/ this is falsely said of him. For the allegory neither destroyeth nor letteth the literal sense/ but the literal sense standeth whole bysyde.  
And where he sayeth that there is none allegory sense as Luther and he say both, and that in more places than one: yet shall our old mark of old holy doctors and saints, mark him for an heretic again. For I am sure he shall not lightly find any of those old, but that he used allegories.  
Luther and Tyndale would have all allegories and all other senses taken away, saving the literal sense alone. But god whose plenteous spirit endyghted the scripture, foresaw full well himself that many godly allegories holy men should by his inspiration at divers times draw out thereof. And sometime he endyghted it, & our saviour himself sometime spoke his words in such wise, that the letter had none other sense then mysteries & allegories/ as commonly all his parables be, of which he exponed some himself & some he exponed not, but hath left them to be exponed by holy doctors after his death/ and some of them hath he holpen diverse to expone diversly, as his high wisdom saw that dyue●s good fruit should follow and ensue thereupon.  
Sometime also though the literal sense be full good/ yet doth god give the grace to some man to find out a ferther thing therein. which sense god that endyghted the letter, did when he made it fore see● and more did set thereby then by the sense that immediately riseth upon the letter/ which letter his high wisdom so tempered for the nonce, that such other sense might be perceived therein and drawn out thereof, by such as himself had determined to give the grace to find it.  

●●ut●r●. 25.  And for ensample our lord saith in the book of Deuteronomy, Thou shall not bind the mouth of the ox as he goth in the flower and thressheth the corn. The very letter is of itself good/ and teacheth men a certain reason and justice to deal well and ●ustely, even with the very beasts that labour with them/ & to abhor without good cause either to pine them or pain them. Now though this sentence be good● and the jews were bounden by the letter of the law, to order themself in that wise toward their oxen/ saying no ferther therein, nor some so far neither peradventure: yet did thapost●e find out an other secret sense therein/ and that sense such as in respect thereof he set the t'other at nought/ and showed that god meant thereby that the pressed which laboureth spiritually in his office, must have his temporal living therefore. And to prove that the spirit of god intended this sense and understanding therein/ ●e saith, 
●. Corinth. 9  Careth god thirteenth for the oxen/ as though he would say nay. And yet in deed god careth and provideth for the living of every living thing. For it is written in the psalm, 
Psalms. 146  that god giveth the meet to the beasts and to the young birds of the crows that call upon him. And our saviour saith himself, Look ye upon the birds of the air, 
Matt●. ●.  they neither sow nor spin/ and yet your father that is in heaven feedeth them.  
And thus it appeareth that god careth for the feeding of all that ever he hath made.  
But yet saw saint Poule, that god so much cared for the priests leaving, above that he careth for the ox's leaving/ that in respect of the tone compared with the t'other, god cared not for the ox at all/ but would we should understand thereby, that we should in any wise provide that the pressed which laboureth with us in spiritual business, should have of us his temporal leaving. And I ween Tyndale is even anger with saint Poule for that exposition.  
Now are there many other texts in the old law, which in like wise receive like exposition, by goodly and fruitful allegories, as in the old holy saints books appeareth. All which will Tyndale here have wiped out in any wise and will have none allegories at all.  
Holy saint Hierome exponeth by an allegory the text of scripture, 
 that the holy prophet David by the co●̄sayl● of his physicians when he waxed very cold for age● took to wife beside all his other wives, the fairest young maiden, that could be founden in all the country about, to do him pleasure in his presence by day, and lie in his arms and keep him warm a nights. This text was true in deed. And yet doth that holy doctor saint Hi●rom in all that ever he can, draw from the consideration of the letter, to the looking upon the allegory. For be the words of the text never so true/ yet thought as ●t seemeth that blessed holy saint, that god caused that story to be written in the scripture, rather for the fruit that folk shall take by some good wholesome allegory that god would in to some man inspire thereupon, then to make us 〈◊〉 & study and device upon the only sample of king D●uyds deed, whereby some old husbands would learn to let his old wife lie, and take cold in a bed alone, and ●●m self take a young pretty prym to bed to keep his back warm for physyke.  
Finally I dare well say, that the allegories written upon the text of holy scripture be very fruitful, what so ever Tyndale say/ and else would god never have suffered so many blessed holy men bystowe so much time about them/ but that himself both foresaw the fruits and devised those texts in such wise also, that thorough good folks labour with the sweet warmth of his own inspiration, such wholesome fruit should plenteously spring thereof.  
Go me now thorough all these points again, that Tyndale hath under the name of the clergy, laid against the catholic church, creeping up in to th'apostles place respect of lucre, leading in a wrong way, beguiling the people, making of constytutions, using of ceremonies taking away the significations of sacraments, and making of false gloss/ and ye shall find good christian readers of all these faults that they falsely lay to our charge, their own bosoms full.  
For their archeheretykes account themself for the preachers, and challenge the apostles place, not by succession but by invasion. For they go and preach and be not sent/ and though pride prykke them forth with liberty to lechery, yet not without lucre neither. For some one of them putting out his fellows such as will be religious and continue chaste, keepeth all their leaving alone, saving for an harlot taken unto him to be called his wife, and get up a covent of bastards between them/ and than they beguile the people with their false preaching, & lead them a very wrong way except the straight weigh to hell be the right way to heaven.  
Now as for constitutions whereof they would have none among us/ themself have been fain in some cities of Almaigne as late as they be begun, to make more constytutions and more bourdenouse to the people, more grievous and more sore to keep up their heresies with, than the church hath made in many years to keep up the true christian faith.  
Ceremonies also which among us they mock and call them dumb/ Marten Luther himself Tyndales great master, after that he had left them of, was by the proof and experience driven little and little to take them almost everichone up again, saving fasting lo. For that ceremony frere Luther will none in no wise, le●t it should feeble his flesh and let him from getting of children, and hinder his harlot of teming.  
Now touching the sacraments, where of they say the church hath taken away the significations/ these heretics take from them all the thing which they chief signify, that is to say, the grace invisible that god giveth with them, and whereof he maketh them an effectual token and instrument.  
And over this of the seven they take away five quite, & leave the other twain fruitless/ and from the tone take they the sweet carnel within, the blessed body of christ, and leave the people the shalies.  
Then as for trust in works/ the catholic church scantly teacheth so bold trust in abstinence, almose deed, prayer, and chastity, as their archeheretyques teach in gluttony, spoiling of churches, despite of all holowes, and in religious lechery.  
Finally for making of false gloss/ themself do much more than that. For they where they list boldly deny the text/ and will take for scripture but what they list themself/ for so reject they diverse parts which the whole catholic church doth receive/ and so might they by the same reason reject the remanant to, and so they will I ween at last, and some have done all ready.  
And then as for false gloss, they make themself the worst that ever were wrought. As Luther to make men ween that matrimony were no sacrament/ where the kings highness as a most erudite prince and a most faithful king, in his most famous book among many other great authorities & reasons, preced him sore with that that the glorious apostle saint Poule calleth it a great sacrament himself: 
Ephes. 5.  Luther I say, letteth not in this wise to gloze saint Paul's words, and say that saint Poule peradventure said it of his own head.  
Is not there an hamer head more meet to make horshone in hell, then to conster the scripture in earth, that is so hard as to make such gloss to that glorious apostles words? wherein who so list to follow Tyndale, may set at short all that th'apostle teacheth/ and say he said that but of his own mind, and not according to the mind of god.  
And yet sith this is Luther's own gloze, and his own answer unto other men: Luther himself and Tyndale also, and all his other disciples, might well and without blasphemy be answered with the same in all the hard places of saint Poule with their false glozing, whereof they would destroy the free will of man, & lay the weight of their own sins to the charge of gods inevitable prescyens, and their own inevitable destynye. 
Matth. ●. 1●.25.   
Now what false gloss be they fain to find against good works, 
Luc●e. 11.  to corrupt an hundred plain places of holy scripture, 
Eph●s. 6.  by which they be clearly declared for things specially pleasing to god, 
He●●ae. 13.  and through the means of his goodness highly rewardable in heaven and meritorious. 
1 Petri. 3.  
Apoc. 2.14.22.  
2. Corinth. 5.   
what false gloss be they fain to find against holy vow●s of chastity, 
Psalmo. 75.  to corrupt so many plain places of scripture, 
1. Timoth. 5.  as utterly condemn to the devil their fowl filthy wyddynges and incestuous lechery.  
Finally fain they not false gloss to corrupt the gospel, and drive god out of christendom, when they would expel christ out of the sacrament of the altar? what care they how they gloze the apostle, when they care not how shameless they show themself in setting so false and foolish gloss to the plain open words of our saviour christ himself.  
For where he said of the blessed sacrament, This is my body: Martyne Luther Tyndales old master gloseth it thus, 
Matth. 25.  This is breed and my body.  
Then frere Huyskyn and Suynglius Tyndales two new masters, declining from ill to worse/ gloze it in this fa●hyon, This is my body, is as much to say, as this signifieth my body. And so make they Christ to declare himself, as though he would tell us thus: I said in deed that this is my body, and so I made mine apostles ween, and so have I made all good men believe this fifteen hundred year/ but all this while have I had no lust to tell my church the troth, because there where so many good men in it that would not upon trust of faith alone, forbear from all good works, but were very busy with them by reason of their wrong understanding of the scripture/ which I liked not to declare plainly to them, because so many of them did vow chastity and kept it. But now that I have founden another manner sort of holy men, that have vowed chastity and break their vow, and will do no such good works as might make them trust upon any reward in heaven, nor forbear any evil works where with they should walk to hell/ but live at liberty, and do what they list, and believe as they list, and look to leap straight to heaven by the promise that I never made them: to them have I therefore now showed even the very bottom of my stomach/ and not yet all at ones/ but first I told Luther & his sect that in the sacrament was both my very body & very breed there with, because they should not eat flesh without breed for fere of breeding worms in the babies belies. But now soon after sins, I told to frere Huyskyn and Swynglius, and bode them tell it out unto Tyndale that where as I said, This is my body, and this is my blood, I meant no more but that if sygny●yeth my body and my blood, and is nothing else in deed but even a cup of very wine & therewith good cake breed alone/ but if it be as Tyndale doubteth with over much watering turned from breed to starch.  
These goodly gloss lo do these heretyques make, and these blasphemous follies they preach unto the people, as boldly and as solemnly as though they had herd them in heaven, & learned them of gods own mouth/ and would seem to be sent from heaven in stead of Christ's apostles and of our saviour himself/ and with testing mocking and scoffing, ween to rail out every man's reason save their own. For thus lo with his similitude of the scribes & pharisees and synagogue of the jews, Tyndale raileth on against the priests and the clergy, & the whole catholic church of christ.  Tyndale. 
And such blind reasons as ours make against us, made they against christ, saying Abraam is our father; we be Moses' dyseyples. How knoweth he the understanding of the scripture, he never learned of any of us. Only the cursed unlearned people that know not the scripture believe in him/ look whither any of the rulers or pharisees do believe in him.  More. 
Tyndale as he before hath hitherto likened the catholic church of all christian people, unto the synagogue of the jews/ and the scribes and pharisees that were then, unto the preachers and the clergy that are now: so doth he now creep a little farther, and resembleth himself and such other heretics his fellows, unto the person of our saviour himself/ and saith the reasons which we now make against him and his fellows, are such blind reasons as the jews made against christ. For answer whereof this dare I boldly say, that as sick and as feeble as the synagogue than was to which he resembleth us, and as far as they then were walked out of the way, and as evil as then the scribes were, and as false as then were the pharisyes to whom he resembleth all the whole clergy now without any one man except: yet if our saviour christ to whom he resembleth himself, had then had no more to say for himself then Tyndale & his fellows have now to say for themself, he had I promise you been very sore opposed, and that even by the very scripture it self, and by Crystes own doctrine to.  
For if Tyndale and his fellows had been there than themself, and our saviour and his apostles away/ when he with his fellows would have rebuked the jews and have reproved their living, they should have founden in Tyndale and his fellows faults enough, so great and so syghtly, that they might have said unto them very well, Take the beams out of your own eyen ye hypocrites, 
Matth. 7.  ere ye go about to take the moties out of other men's. For neither had Tyndale nor any fellow of his, been able to say as christ said, which of you can reprove me of sin. 
johan. 8.  And when they would find faults that were none/ then so to have answered them ferther and confute them as christ did.  
For unto Tyndale if he had reproved the serybes and the pharisees doctrine, and showed that they both taught evil for good, and reproved as evil some things that were not evil, and some things also that were in deed good/ when he would have proved them this by scripture, they would peradventure have sticked with him upon the right understanding of the scripture. wherein if he would have looked to have been better to be believed than they/ me thinketh that afore right reasonable folk, he should have had an hard part to defend/ saving only for one thing if he could and would have laid it against them. And that is if he would have said and could have proved unto them, that the good holy jews of old time before them in sundry ages, had exponed the scriptures after his preaching and contrary unto theyr●. This point would I promise you sore have appalled them.  
But then will this point as sore appall Tyndale in this debate between him and us, because all the old holy saints from Crystes time to ours, have ever exponed the scriptures in the necessary points of faith as the church now doth, contrary to Tyndale and all the whole rabble of all the sects of heretics.  
But now for as much as I am not sure, whither Tyndale would so say to the jews or not: let us therefore hardly take Tyndale thence again/ and let our saviour christ alone with them/ and see whither he have any better answers to make the jews there, the● Tyndale hath here to make us.  
christ, if they would look to be better believed in the construction of the scripture than he, and would ask him of whom he learned it sith he learned it not of them/ could well tell them and well prove them, that himself alone ought more to be believed therein then they all together. For he could show them that all those scriptures fro Moses down ward, did all prophecy of him, and that he should be the teacher of them, and the chief prophet, 
 and the truest preacher/ and that therefore Moses had commanded them to hear him/ and a greater than Moses' the father of heaven himself, 
 had commanded them to hear him, and that the spirit of god had lighted upon him in witness thereof and that he was himself goddess owns son, and with his father and his holy spirit one god himself and equal. And to make them the better perceive it/ he could do and would do and in deed so did he such dedes in their own sight, as well by his own power and of his own authority as by the invocation of ●is father, such deeds I say as none could do but god.  
All this lo could Cryst for himself answer unto the blind reasons that the jews made unto him.  
And now let Tyndale in like wise with help of all his fellows, answer the same things for himself to our blind reasons that we make against hymn & th●nne make his answers good, that is to wit prove them true/ and then would we give him good leave to put out all ou● eyen, and make us all blind in deed.  
But Tyndale can not go that way, but will lead us a little out of our way/ & speak against the whole catholic church, and then turn it to the clergy alone, & sometime to the pope alone. And he will speak against the faith of the church now, and make us forget that all the old holy saints fro christ unto our days, both taught and believed the same, and all the christian people beside. And thus neither ha●ynge the things to lay against the faith of the catholic church that were well laid against the synagogue of the jews, nor having no such defence for himself as had our sauyou●e for himself to whom he would be resembled: he windeth himself so wylyl● this way & that way, and so ●●yfteth in and out, and with his so●●e shyfting he so ble●eth ou● eyen● that he maketh us in manner as stark blind as a cat/ and so maseth us in the matter, that we can no more see where about he walketh, then if he went visible before us all naked in a net.  
And yet I promise you either is my brain stark blind in deed, or else doth Tyndale play blind hob about the house. For he falleth suddenly upon a conclusion/ toward the proof whereof as far as I can spy, he hath nothing to wched. And yet by the words of his conclusion he leaveth us in like doubt as he did before. For lo as though ●e had before well and plainly proved it/ in this wise he suddenly concludeth, with as many dowtes as words.  Tyndale. 
Wherefore the scripture truly understanden after the plain places and genera●● artyc●es of the faith which thou fyndeste in the scripture, and the ensamples that are gone before/ will always testify who is the right church.  More. 
who heard ever such an other wherefore? whereupon doth his wherefore depend? hath he any thing said yet, whereupon it must follow, that the scripture and the articles of the faith with ensamples gone before, do teach us which is now the church, he that seeth it let him say● it/ for surely I see it not.  
And yet are also these words in themself so blind, that if he said true, standing yet of all these marks all most every word between these heretics and us in question debate and controversy/ till he make us those questions more clear either they or we be still as blind as we were, and still feel and fumble about to find out the church as we did.  
For first where he said the scripture truly understanden/ have they not brought that point in question. And then how meaneth he now truly understanden: as the church understandeth it, or as heretics. And yet are not he & we well agreed upon that point neither/ but like wise as that we call truly, he calleth falsely/ so look whom we call heretics he calleth the church, and whom we call the church he calleth heretics.  
After the plain places/ which be those, and to whom plain? the places that the tone part calleth plain, the t'other calleth crooked/ and those that the tone calleth dark the other calleth open and plain. And that place that the tone saith is plain for one thing, the t'other saith is plain for the clean contrary.  
The general articles of the faith/ which be those? For he woteth well that they and we be not yet agreed upon them. For we believe matrimony is a sacrament/ Tyndale saith he can himself make such another sacrament of a net or a key. we believe that the sacrament of the altar is the very body and blood of christ/ Tyndale saith it is but wine and cake breed. Tyndale believeth it is lawful (if he believe as he saith) that freres may wed nuns/ and we believe as all good men have ever believed, that such marriage is very unlawful lechery & plain abominable bichery. what are we then the near toward the knowledge of the church by the articles of the faith, if those articles be brought in as much doubt as the church? we seem to have need first to find out well the true church, to be sure of a true teacher to teach us them, because saint Poule saith that the church is the pillar & sure ground of 
 troth.  
Nay saith Tyndale it shall not need. For the general articles be those that thou findest in scripture. which thou? to whom speaketh he/ for that the tone part either findeth or weeneth he findeth/ the t'other part saith is not there/ & when it is showed, yet he saith he seeth it not. And when the t'other telleth him that he is then very blind, the t'other telleth him again nay, but that on the other side his sight rather daseth and weeneth he seeth, that he seeth not, and taketh one thing for twain.  
For we think we find in the scripture that confirmation, holy order, and annealing, 
 be great and holy sacraments/ Tyndale saith we find it not there. we think we find in very palyne scripture, that in the sacrament of thaltar is the very blessed body of christ/ Tyndale will if need require, not let I am sure to swear, that there is nothing there but cake breed.  
we think we find in scripture, 
〈…〉  that men are bounden to keep their holy vows, and that freres therefore may not wed nuns/ Tyndale will not let to say we lie all, and that so do all holy saints to fro Christ's days hitherto, that ever said so before. Now shall we now agree/ what are we now the near for this mark.  
I wot near also what he meaneth by general articles/ for we call general articles those that the general church believeth/ and special, those that be believed but of some special folk. If he would take it thus, this would ease much of the matter.  
But now I can not tell which he calleth general articles. For the general church calleth those part of the general articles, which articles Tyndale saith be false & no part of the faith at all.  
yet where he saith such general articles as thou findest in the scripture, he must tell us once again, which thou. For between the church and his sects it is not fully agreed, which books be the true scripture. For frere Barns saith plain, that saint jamys pistle is none of his. And frere Luther saith the same, and setteth not much thereby, though he wist well it were his in deed/ and so the sects take not all for scripture, that the catholic church doth.  
Now where he speaketh of the samples gone afore/ he must both tell us which ensamples he meaneth, and apply those ensamples also to his present purpose.  
And when he hath so done/ then shall ye well see that they s●all as all his other marks do, but if we believe the comen known catholic church, show else no certainty of any church at all/ but one church to one sort and another church to another, and finally as many sundry churches, as there be sundry sects of heretyques.  
And sith not only no sect agreeth with other, but almost also no man among them all with other: all Tyndales marks be so diverse to so many, that they must needs show almost as many diverse churches, as there are gone out of the known catholic church not only diverse sects, but also diverse men.  
And against this hath Tyndale none evasion that can well serve him/ but only one. And that is, if he say that he meaneth all his doubtful words to be exponed by himself/ that is to say, that he meaneth by scripture well understanden, the scripture so understanden as himself understandeth it/ and by plain placies, those places that he calleth plain himself/ and by general articles, those articles that he calleth general himself/ & that he calleth founden in scripture, all those articles and only those, that he saith he findeth there himself/ and ensamples before gone, those ensamples only that himself list to assign, and so applied as himself list to apply them.  
And surely if he mean thus/ this will some set an end in the matter, and shortly cease all the strife, if all folk agree to follow him/ and else be we still yet at as great strife as we were before.  
And yet if he so mean, what needeth he so long process. For than amounteth all his tale to no more, but as though he might say, will ye know which is the very church? Surely the very church is even which so ever church myself list to tell you. And this were ye wot well soon and shortly said, and were a very godly conclusion.  
But now goeth he ferther after the fashion of an old english ballad that beginneth, The ferther I go the more behind. For now in dylating and declaring of his conclusion, he addeth one thing, as the final opening of all in the end, that utterly marreth all his matter. And therefore shall ye now here all the remanant of this chapter at once.  More. 
Though the pharisees succeeded the patriarchs and prophets, and had the scripture of them/ yet they were heretics and fallen from the faith of them ●nd their living. And christ and his disciples and Iohn the Babtyste, departed from the pharisees which were heretics, unto the right sense of the scripture, and unto the faith ●nd living of the patryarke● and prophets and rebuked the pharisees. As thou sayst how christ calleth them hypocrites, dysimulers, blind guides, and painted sepulchres. And Iohn called them the generation of vipers and serpents. Of Iohn th'angel said unto his father Luke. 1. He shall turn many of the children of Israel unto their lord god/ which yet before Iohn believed after a fleshly understanding in god, and thought themselves in the right way. And he shall turn the hearts of the fathers unto their children. That is he shall with his preaching and true interpreting of the scripture, make such a spiritual heart in the children as was in their father's Abraham Isaac and Iac●b. And he shall turn the disobedient unto the obedience of the righteous, and prepare the lord a perfect people. That is, them that had set up a righteousness of their own, were therefore dysobedyent unto the ryghtuosnes of faith shall he convert from their blindness, unto the wisdom of them that believed in god to be made righteous/ and with those fathers shall he give the children eagles eyes to spy out christ and his ryghtewysnes, and to forsake they● own, and so to become perfect.  
And after the same manner, though our popish hypocrites succed● christ this new baptist saint Luther, give the world warning before his coming that his doctrine might be the better liked, by that his person were by prophecy fore known and marked. For else were there great peril, lest the people that had thorough false doctrine so long been led awry, by leaving always to be well saved enough with such dissolute living, as the world had thorough false doctrine continued so many hundred year together/ were not now suddenly likely to give ear to the sore and straight and hard doctrine of such an holy spiritual man as holy frere Luther is/ so fully fastened all upon the spirit, and so far abhorring from all fleshly works, that he would never have wedded the nun, nor once have laid his spiritual hands upon her fleshly face, had he not first felt & founden her from the too to the chin, turned all into fish.  
And therefore if this young saint Iohn Baptystt he foregoer of these new Crystes, and all their new apostles now sent by god in so great a message, and for so great a purpose, like to find the world so full of fleshly folk, that such a spiritual man must needs find much resistance: surely god caused him to be prophesied of as the other old saint Iohn baptist was.  
And therefore if Tyndale will have Luther taken now for a new saint Iohn/ as of the old saint Iohn it was of old prophesied by the mouth of Esaie● that he should be a voice of one crying in deserts Make ready the way of our lord, 
●saiae● 40.  make straight the paths of our god in wilderness: so mus●e Tyndale now tell us by what old prophet god hath prophesied, that he would in the later days when the faith were sore decayed, and charity greatly cooled, rear up a frere that should wed a nun, and from an harlots bed step up into the pulpette and preach. For but if he prove his authority the better, either by prophecy, or by marvelous miracle/ it willbe long of lykelyh●d ere ever any wise man ween, that god would ever send any such abominable best, to turn the world to the right way, and make a perfit people.  
Now where Tyndale saith to make up his matter with in this wise, we depart fro them unto the true scripture, and unto the faith and living thereof and rebuke them/ in like manner he bringeth forth now for his part another manner thing in deed then ever he spoke of yet. For he said within three lines before, that we have the scripture of christ and his apostles, and are for all that fallen from the faith and living of them, and are become heretics, and therefore have need of Iohn baptist to convert us. Now sith we have as Tyndale himself here confesseth us to have the scripture of christ and his apostles: whither will Tyndale go from us to seek the true scripture? Taketh he the scripture of christ and his apostles for a false scripture? He will of likelihood leave the christian countries and the scriptures of christ, & get him into Turkay and take him to Machomettes alcharon, and call that the true scripture/ or else hath Luther and he some other scripture in close, which he calleth here the true scripture.  
And surely so it seemeth they have. For I am very sure that by our scripture which himself here confesseth for the scripture of christ & his apostles, he shall never while he liveth be able to prove frere Luther's lechery any good lawful matrimony.  
And where he saith he goeth frow us to the faith and living thereof/ he must needs mean some faith and living that is allowed by that same true scripture that he speaketh of/ that is as it seemeth by his words, none of Crystes scripture nor of his apostles. And therefore when so ever he lust hereafter to leave of our scriptures, that is as he confesseth the scripture of christ and his apostles, and meddle no more with them, as it were well done he did not, & once I ween he will not i● deed/ but will for their false faith and filthy living lay forth some new scripture of their owne● to which he saith they go now, and which he calleth the true scripture: we will then ask him whereby he can prove their new found scripture more true than the scripture of christ and his apostles, which himself confesseth to be with the catholic church/ and which as it hath alway been therewith, so shall alway remain therewith after Tyndale and all that ever will walk out thereof to seek themself some new.  
Then saith he farther, And we rebuke them in like manner/ that is to say that saint Luther, saint Huchyns, saint Huyskyns, and saint Swynglius, in like wise rebuke the catholic church, as faint Iohn baptist rebuked the synagogue of the jews.  
But now must Tyndale remember first, that though we were all as well worthy to be rebuked as ever was any of them/ nor for out living only, but for our belief also: yet were not these beasts such men as it might so well become in like manner to rebuke us, as it might saint johan baptist to rebuke the jews/ both for that he was an holy man and fawtelesse, and therefore merely to find and rebuke faults/ and also because he was specially sent by god to rebuke faults/ where as these m●n be fauty and filthy themself, and therefore unmeet to rebuke other men's faults/ nor be not sent by god about the mending of men's belief or living, but specially sent by the devil to mar men's faith and all good living to, both with their false poisoned heresies, and with th'example of their bold open defended lechery so horrible and abominable before the face of god, whose holy sacrament of wedlock they defoul shamefully with their vow breaking bichery, that never was there bestely wrech before their miserable days so shameless yet, that ever durst for shame be seen to attempt the like.  
And beside this these folk rebuke us not in like manner. For saint Iohn baptist rebuked the vices of the jews, not with words only but specially with the sample of his own virtuous living/ where as these rebukers of our living, 
Matthe. 3.  live themself at the lest wise as evil as we.  
Saint Iohn also preached penance for sin/ but these fellows keep still their own synnies themself, and call them virtue, and avow the break of their vow for well done, and their lechery for matrimony, & call evil good and good evil, white blakke and blakke white/ & teach men to contemn penance, and make men abhor confession, and think that little sorrow sufficeth, and satysfaccy to need none at all, but great sin to go about it.  
This was not saint Iohnns manner.  
saint Iohn showed another manner of penance, exhorting to confession and hearty contrition. And how a penitent should live he declared in his living/ not that he so needed, but to teach with his deed that he preached with his word.  
Saint Iohn therefore lyu●d in desert, and fasted and fore hard, and lay hard, and watched and prayed. These folk live in great towns, and far well and fast not, no not so much as the iii golden fridays/ that it to wit the friday next after Palm sunday, and the friday next afore Easter day, and good friday/ but will eat flesh upon all three, and utterly love no lenten fast nor lightly no fast else, saving break fast, and eat fast, and drink fast, and sleep fast, and lusk fast in their lechery, & then come forth and rail fast. This was not the manner of rebuking that saint Iohn used. And therefore Tyndale saith untrue when he saith they rebuke us after the same manner that saint Iohn did the jews.  
But now knitteth Tyndale all the matter up/ and shortly showeth in the end of this chapter even in a few words, the thing that he hath made us gape after all this while, sith the beginning of his whole book, that is to wit which is the very church. For lo sir thus he saith.  Tyndale. 
And as they which depart from the faith of the true church are heretics/ even so they which depart from the church of heretics and falls feigned faith of hypocrites, are the true church.  More. 
Lo good christian readers after long work at last, Tyndale hath here in few words showed you which is the very true church/ that is to say as many as depart out of the church of heretics.  
But hath not Tyndale now brought us even in to the same doubt again hath not all our question been all this while, which is the true church/ in which question is ever more included this question, which be heretics/ considering that the question is asked for none other cause then only to know which be the heretics that are the counterfeited churches.  
And now giveth Tyndale such a counsel, as if one that could no good skill of money and were set to be a receiver, would ask him counsel how he should do to be sure alway to to take good money/ and Tyndale would advise him to see well that he took no bad. And then if he said again, ye M. Tyndale but I pray you teach me then how I may be sure that I take no bad. Marry would Tyndale say again, for that shall I teach the a way sure enough, that never shall deceive the if thou do as I bid thee, what is that I pray you. Marry look in any wise that thou take none but good.  
Such a good lesson lo did the tylar once teach the maid, how she should bear home water in a sieve and spill never a drop. And when she brought the sieve to the water to him to learn it/ he bade her do no more but ere ever she put in the water, stop fast all the holes.  
And then the maid laughed and said that she could yet teach him a thing that a man of his craft had more need to learn. For she could teach him how he should never fall, climbed he never so high, all though men took away the lader from him. And when he longed to learn the point to save his neck with/ she bode him do no more but ever see surely to one thing, that is to wit, that for any haste he never come down faster than he went up. Now such a good sure lesson Tyndale teacheth us here. For now to make us sure alway which is the church, he telleth us that they be the church that come from heretics/ where as the very true church standing in question, heretics, that is to say the counterfeit false church, must needs stand in the like question, and be as doubtful as the t'other. And therefore hath Tyndale in this tale so soiled all the doubt, that he hath left all even in like doubt still.  
Now if Tyndale will say that he hath all ready well & sufficiently showed who be heretics, in that he hath showed which was once the right church, that is to wit Criste and his apostles/ and that the catholic church that now is, is fallen from the faith and belief of that church that then was, and so be they the heretyques/ and therefore the church that was, showeth the heretics that be/ that is say the church of Chryst and his apostles that was the chyrh well known, do show the catholic church that now is for well known heretics/ and therefore Tyndale and Luther, and all their fellows, sith they be a company well known to have gone out and left for hatred of their false faith and heresies this known catholic church of heretics: it must needs follow, that Luther and Tyndale, and Huyskyn, and Swynglius, and their company, be the very church. And so this question surely soiled by Tyndale, and openly and plainly without any such doubt remaning therein as is spoken of before/ and the tylar needeth not now to look to his feet at all, he can not fall though he would.  
Consider now good reader that if Tyndale make this answer (for as for other that he might make, as help me god if I saw it, I would myself make it for him as effectual as I could) but as I say if he make us this, consider well then that the whole effect and pith of this answer is nothing else, but that the known catholic church from which Tyndale confesseth himself that they be gone as from heretics, and which known catholic church we call the true church, be fallen from the true faith of christ & his apostles, and be by that means become heretyques.  
And in this point though Tyndale to blear our yien with all, use diverse ways to draw our minds from the very point of the matter/ and to flatter the temporalty, turneth all his tale and his railing words against the clergy: yet in very deed the whole body of the church is the thing that he heweth at, and that he calleth the heretics. For of spiritualty and temporalty all is one faith/ and of the whole catholic church hath from the beginning ever been our matter.  
Then consider I say now, that where he saith that the catholic church now is fallen from the faith of the old church of christ and his apostles/ we can not deny but that Tyndale so saith. But then see we well and so we say again and say therein very true, that when Tyndale so saith he lieth.  
For ye see yourself that Tyndale proveth this tale but by his bare word, ●n that we believe not as he doth, that good works are nought worth, and that the sacraments be graceless and but bare signs and tokens/ and yet not so much neither by Tyndales tale, but only dumb ceremonies that neither say nor signify, and that men do wrong to worship the body and blood of christ in the blessed sacrament, and that there is nothing therein but very bare breed and wine or starch in stead of breed/ & that freres may well wed nunnys, and such other goodly things like. which false articles to be true, he neither hath proved nor can prove while he liveth, nor all the heretics in this world, nor yet all the devils in hell.  
Now have we well proved you, that in all such points we have the self same faith that christ and his apostles had and taught. And in these points we prove that the scriptures of them be on our part. And yet say we also that we be sure thereof, by that that christ and his apostles did deliver us these things by mouth beside the writing/ by which we should also have been sure thereof, all though they never had been written/ as we be by that mean sure of some other things that were left unwritten, and only delivered by christ to his apostles, and by his apostles to the church, and therein perpetually kept by the spirit of god, that christ according to his promise sent unto his church to lead it in to all troth, 
I●han. 16.  and by his own perpetual assistance and presence with his church for ever as himself promised also. Of which things well known and yet unwritten, 
Matt●. 2●.  is for ensample one, that we be bounden to believe the perpetual virginity of our lady, wherewith I have troubled Tyndale once or twice here afore/ and himself while he laboured to wind out, hath so messhed and entangled himself therein, that he hath in the handling of that one matter alone, utterly destroyed the foundation of all the heresies that they have in all their whole Ragmans' roll.  
another ensample of the tradycio●s without writing may be the putting of the water in to the wine at the mass/ wherewith the kings noble grace in such wise handled Luther, that in answering thereunto Luther fareth as one that were fallen frantyke, and saith now this now that and woteth not where he may hold him/ but sayeth sometime that the water may be left out or put in as the church lytte to order. And then again he saith that it ought to be left out and not put in, for as much as it hath (saith he) an evil signification, that is to wit tha● the pure scripture is mingled and watered with men's traditions/ and therefore they should he saith sing mass and consecrate with only wine alone, and so by lykelyhed they do therefore such freres as wed nuns.  
But holy saint Cyrpian that blessed bishop and very glorious martyr/ & a man one of the best learned that ever wrote in Crystes catholic church, writeth plainly xiii hundred year before Luther was borne, that the water must needs in, and that christ put water in to it at his own maundy when he consecrated and ordained it himself.  
And this blessed saint Cypryane, thought himself bounden both so to believe and to teach upon the traditions of th'apostles beside their writings.  
Thus writeth saint Cypryane contrary to Luther's doctrine clear.  
But I can let no man to believe now whither of them both they lists. How be it I see not greatly why Luther should be better believed then he, but if it be because saint Cypryane would not wed, and Luther hath wedded a nun.  
But as I began to say, remember good reader that where as we say that in the great variance of our faiths, the faith I say of the catholic church and the faith which these heretyques profess to the contrary, we prove our faith by the scriptures/ and they say nay, and affirm that they prove theirs by the scriptures, whereunto we say nay: all the question for the more part riseth, or hath at the lest wise ever hitherto risen, not upon the scripture self, but upon the construction thereof/ that is to say not whither the words were holy scripture or no that were for scripture alleged, but what was of that scripture the true sense and right understanding.  
For as for which was holy and authentic scripture and which not, we have be a great while very well agreed/ saving that Luther of late and frere Barns after him, would fain put out saint jamies pistle, 
 and saith it hath no smack of any apostolic spirit, 
Iac●●i. 5.  because it saith that faith waxeth deed without good works and hath a plain place also for the sacrament of annealing. And Fryth would have out quite the books of the Macha beys, because it proveth for purgatory and for the inc●rcessyon of saints.  
And now seemeth Tyndale to make a secret insinuation of some other scripture than Christ's and his apostles/ which other scripture he seemeth to call the true scripture/ and saith that from the catholic church which himself confesseth to have the scripture of christ and his apostles, himself and his fellows go now to the true scripture.  
But now letting his other new true scripture alone till he rehearse us some thereof/ ever hitherto all our debate and variance hath been about the exposition/ each part laying to the others charge false glozing of the true scripture.  
Then sith the doubt between their faith and ours, resteth upon that point: consider good christian reader that we prove that the consent of all the old holy doctors and saints of every age sins christendom first began unto frere Luther's own days, is upon our part against them.  
And this have I proved. what say I, this have I proved? nay this have (I say) themself proved, in that their head capitain Luther proudly rejecteth and shaketh of the saints with his sleeve like flies by the whole hundred at once/ & in one place in his book of Babilonica speaking of the canon of the mass, wherein he confesseth that they stand all against him, he setteth not a rysshe by them all, but shaketh them of all at once, & saith the scripture is plain upon his side though they say all the contrary.  
And in this point all the ●able of them follow their master so far, that they fall to blaspheming of saints to take away their authority.  
And yet if this proof will not satisfy them, but that they be so shameless as to say yet still that the old holy doctors and saints are against us with them: let them of so many tell us one, that ever so construed the scripture, that a man professing once vowed chastity, was for all at his lawful liberty to wed a vowed professed nun. I speak of professed and vowed, because of such as profess without perpetual vows, as is the religious house of saint Gerytrude at Nyvell, and other like in other places. Let them I say among all the old holy doctors, show so much as some one/ of which I wot well they can not find one among them all.  
Then consider good christian reader, that sith we have upon our part against all their sects, all the old holy saints agreeing with us in belief, though we be not like them in living, there is no doubt but that in faith the comen christian people by all these agys' agreed with us also.  
For how can we know the faith that in every time hath been, but by the writers that were in every time, sith we can not now speak with the men.  
Finally good christian readers upon these things it followeth, that we prove well and sufficiently, that there is not an old church of christ and his apostles, & an other new church now/ but one whole church from that time to this time in one true faith continued. And so is it plainly proved false all the foundation of Tindals' whole tale.  
And as for any thing that himself proveth/ his words that he would were taken for so plain to show us which is the church, leaveth us as I said in like doubt as we were/ saving where they should prove him & his company the church, they prove now clearly with this, that he confesseth christ & his apostles to have been the church/ and then this that we prove thereto by all the holy doctors books of every age before, that the catholic church hath now the same faith still, and Tyndale and his fellows the contrary: tyndal's own tale I say with these things set thereto, prove Tyndale and all his fellows heretics, and the known catholic church to be the very church of christ.  
And here ye see well good readers, I might of his chapter make an end. But in good faith Tyndals' words well weighed, have so many merry follies in them, that I can not yet hold my fingers from them.  
For I require you for god's sake once again consider his words well.  Tyndale. 
As they which depart from the faith of the true church are heretics/ even so they that depart from the church of heretics and false feigned faith of ypochrytes, are the true church.  More. 
I have in good faith good hope, that there shall not lightly so mean a witted man read his words here, but that he shall marvel much where Tyndals' wit was when he wrote those words. For every child may see perdie that these two things be not like/ that is to wit the going out of the true church of christ, and the going out of the false church of heretics. For the true church of christ is but one. And the false churches of heretics be many. And therefore though every man that goth from the faith out of that one true church of Crist, must needs be an heretic, because he can not so go out but by heresy/ it followeth not that in like wise every man that goeth out of the church of heretics, goeth into the true church of christ, by the true faith again/ for as much as of many churches, he may go out of one into another/ and so ye see well they do. And therefore Tyndale speaketh false English when he saith the church of heretics. For they neither be any one church, nor have any one church over them all, so special that it may be by a certain special preemynens in respect of the remanant called the church.  
Now that a man may go out of a false church of heretics and yet not into the true church of christ/ Tyndale may well perceive by two samples of two special heretics of two contrary conditions/ that is to wit one heretic of old called Berengarius, and an other of new called wyllyam Hychyn. Berengarius fell first into that false heresy against the blessed sacrament of the altar, that he affirmed and held that there is not in it the very body of christ, nor nothing but only very breed, and gathered his church of his heresy together. But afterward he better remembered himself, and revoked that heresy, and fell from that heresy into an other/ not fully so far in falsehood but yet a false heresy to/ that is to wit that heresy that Luther holdeth now, that in the sacrament though he confessed to be the very body of christ, yet he held that there remained and abode still very breed to therewith.  
And thus in Berengarius may Tyndale well perceive that a man may go frow a false church of heretics, and yet not straight into the true church of christ.  
Tyndale may also perceive this point well by the other new heretic wyllyam Huchyn, which first fell to the second heresy that was of the twain the less evil, that is to wit the heresy that Luther holdeth, that in the sacrament is both the very body of christ and very breed. But now either because he longed ever to fall unto the worst, as long as he might find any worse than other, or else because he favoured frete Huskyn, because his own name was Huchyn/ he fell in that point from Luther's heresy to his, and affirmeth now that there is in the blessed sacrament nothing else but breed/ and ●esteth and scoffeth upon it, and disputeth in his blasphemy that it should be but starch.  
And thus where the old heretic Berengarius began at the worst, and from that fell to less evil: this new heretic Huchyn goth contrary way, beginning at the less evil and falling from that unto the worse. And therefore is much the less likely to follow that other in one point, in which I pray god he may. For Berengarius yet after all this, revoked his later heresy to, and lived long after, and died an holy virtuous man.  
But by these ensamples I say Tyndale may well perceive that though he go straight out of a church of heretics, yet it shall not follow that he shall go into the true church/ sith he may by the way step into another false church, of which there be so many beside.  
For all the heretyques be not gathered into one church/ but as the church of christ is but one, so be there of those a vengeable many/ and be not comprehended under any one church, saving only that as the true church is the church of god, so be all the false called the church of the devil, 
I●●. 41.  which is king as the scripture saith over all the children of pride, which pride is as saint austin saith the very mother of heretyques.  
Now if it be true that Tyndale here sayeth, that the church which we call the very church/ that is to say, if it be true that the catholic known church, be as Tyndale here taketh it the church of heretyques/ and the faith thereof be as he also calleth it, a false feigned faith of ypocryties/ and therefore like as this church because it is as he saith comen away from the true church of christ and his apostles, is the church of false heretics/ so they that come away fro this church of heretics, and this false feigned faith of ypocrities, be the true church: then must it needs follow, that all the sects which are sprungen in Boheme, and in Sarony, & in some other parts of almain, be the very true church, and the true faithful believers.  
Now sith Tyndale hath brought it unto this, I would fain know one thing of him/ sith it is so that all those sects be the true church and very faithful folk: how happeth it that each of them calleth other false shrews, and saith true in that point and in almost nothing else?  
And sith he hath brought it unto this/ how can his final words also stand with this conclusion, with which words he would ●eme to prove his conclusion true. For thus he endeth this chapter.  Tyndale. 
Which thou shalt alway know by their faith examined by the scripture, and by their profession and consent to live according unto the laws ●f god.  More. 
Now consider good reder whether these tokens do make us know, that all the sects that are departed fro the catholic church, be the true church.  
How can their faith examined by the scripture, or how can their profession to live according to the lawis of god's, make us perceive that all they be the true church, because they come from the faith of ours which Tyndale calleth false and feigned/ where as they being departed from ours, do among themself neither in faith nor in profession of living any wise consent or agree?  
For first in Boheme, what a sort of diverse false faythies be there, and what diversity and contraryete in the profession of their living.  
Then in Saxony and in some parts of almain, what another sort is there of sundry manner sectis, as well in articles of the faith and belief, as in the unmannerly manners and lawless laws of living, whereof ye may perceive a great many by the book of M. wyllyam Barloo, that long was conversant in the country/ which detesting thabomination that he found among them, hath of a right godly zeal given us knowledge of them.  
And now by Tyndales tale they be the true church every eachone, and the law of god shall allow all their livings as bestely as they be, and the scripture of god shall uphold and maintain all their belyefes' as dyssonaunt and as repugnant as they be each to other, and as maliciously false as all the whole sort be both one and other.  
For all this lo yet shall we by the law of god and by the scripture of god compared with all their bestely livings and all their false repugnant faiths, well and clearly know saith Tyndale, that all they be the very true church of christ, because they can be none other, for as much as they be come away from the feigned faith of ours.  
And so ye may see that Tyndale affirmeth now not only those abominable heresies that he taught before, but all those also the anabaptists have added unto them sins. And so now be the true church with him and agree with scripture and with the law of god, all those that say the baptizing of children is void, and they that say that there ought to be no rulers at all in christendom, neither spiritual nor temporal/ and that no man should have any thing proper of his own, but that all lands and all goods aught by god's law to be all men's in comen, and that all women ought to be comen to all men, as well the next of kin as the farthest stranger, & every man husband to every woman, and every woman wife unto every man/ and then finally that our blessed saviour Crist was but only man and not god at all.  
And in good faith I never thought other yet from soon after the beginning, but that when these folk fell once to these horrible heresies which Tyndale in his books hath taught us, they should not fail to fall soon after unto these other to/ of which the very worst is not worse yet then diverse of those that Tyndale taught us before/ nor lightly can there none be worse, except only one, that were to say there is no god at all. And as help me god I verily fear they shall fall unto that at last. And then reckoning neither upon god nor devil nor immortality of their own souls, but jesting and scoffing that god is a good fellow, & as good a soul hath an owl as a cukkoo, and when thou seest my soul hang on the hedge then hurl stonies at it hardly and spare not/ and as Tyndale saith when thou speakest with saint Peter, then pray him to pray for thee: thus reckoning upon nothing but only upon this world, & therefore rekking for nothing but only for the body, they shall at the last fall in a new rage, & gather themself together, and shall but if their malice be the better repressed, to make other manner masteries then ever they made ye●/ whereof the mischief shall fall in their own nekkes. But yet if they may be suffered once to ryser all the mischief will not fall in their own nekkes alone, but much harm shall hap upon many good men's heads ere these rebellious wretches be well repressed again.  
Beside all this, consider well good reder, that if it be true that Tyndale here teacheth us for the final conclusion of all this chapter/ that is to wit if it be true that all they that go out of the catholic church, be the the true church/ then sith the sects that are departed out of this catholic church, be companies known well enough, ye see now very well that here hath Tyndale suddenly destroyed and pulled downeth church that all this while he went about to byeld up/ which was as fro the beginning ye have herd, a church of unknown elects. For he hath as ye now perceive, brought all to a known church, or rather to twenty known churches/ of which every one is by all the remnant knowledged to be known for false/ and then both in abominable false belief and brutish bestely living all the whole rabble such, that obstinately live therein, and develyshly also die therein, that every man may well perceive they can not all be gods elects.  
And thus hath he suddenly pulled here down to ground, the church unknown of his only elects, that he hath good christian reader all this while so bysely gone about to set up.  
Now if Tyndale when he shall perceive how blindly the devil hath led him here about, and made him to fall in the dyche with his docer, & break all his eggs, & quail thus all his conclusion, would for shame seek any farther shift, & say that I miss take his words, & that himself meant in them some other manner thing: I doubt not but every wise reder will consider well what he will say, and not be so far over seen as to believe him at his only word. One thing I am very sure, that I have in this chapter left never a word of his unwritten to hide his intent, or deprave his purpose with all/ but have truly and plainly rehearsed them every one. By all which it appeareth plainly, that he both saith and meaneth as I have showed you/ and thereupon that these follies of his that I have declared you, are plainly deduced upon his own words which I have rehearsed you.  
How be it if he will for avoiding of the shame, surmise that he meant some other thing: I can not well imagine what it might be that he might devise to say that he meant. For if he would say that he meant not, that all the sects that go out of the catholic church which he calleth the heretics be the true church/ but some one of them, which one we should perceive well from the remnant by their faith examined by scripture, & by the profession of their living after the law of god: this can he not say that he meant/ for he nameth no one sect of them all, but saith generally that they which depart out of the church of heretics which he calleth the comen known catholic church, be the true church. And therefore he can not escape so.  
He would also if he had so meant, have specially commanded some one. And also there is not one of them all whose faith either agreeth with the scripture, or the profession of their living with the law of god/ but if Tyndale call as in deed he doth, a godly profession for freres & nuns to fall from the chastity of their profession/ and like as they professed before to serve god in chastity, so to profess themself from hence forth to serve the devil in sacrilege, and make him a daily sacrifice of their own bestely bodies with incestuous lechery.  
Finally if he be so shameless as to say that he meant none of them all, but some such unknown as himself woteth not whom, that is gone out of our church, that is to wit the known catholic church/ & believeth not as we do by cause we believe nought/ nor liveth not as we do because we live nought/ nor goth not into any of those other churches & sects neither, because they believe nought and live nought also as well as we, but frame themself some faith after the scripture, & some kind of living after the law of god by themself/ & that these be the very church & the very elects, & all unknown both who they be and where they be saving only that always some such there be, & known only to god that hath elected them, & every of them to himself by his feeling faith, which yet he many times feeleth nothing of, as Tyndale himself hath before confessed in the chapter of the order of their election, & yet for all that always feeleth still, that thorough the feeling faith which he once felt, he is one of gods good children, even while he lieth with his leman or while he killeth a good man, & that in all that while that he doth such devilish deeds, he doth yet no deadly sin: if he can for shame find in his heart to say thus, this willbe the most foolish thing of all.  
For first the general manner that he useth where he saith They that go fro the church of heretics (which he calleth us of the catholic church) be the very church, This general manner of speech I say that excludeth none, restraineth it not unto a few folk only uncertain & unknown, but extendeth it unto all folk that ever go forth from us. And therefore he can not excuse his folly with saying that he meant it so.  
Moreover if he so had meant in deed/ that had been yet the most folly of all. For what congregation were that which never were gathered together, nor never one part wittingly speak with other/ of which if they met together, never one knoweth other. For though they know together, as folk of acquaintance or kindred, or neighbours peradventure all of one town or street, ye or of one house either: yet can they not one know an other as for a member of his own unknown church, that is to wit for one of the true faith and right living, & for a penitent sinner, and finally for a final elect. And all these conditions ye wot well must those persons have that Tyndale taketh for the very church.  
yes saith Tyndale Thou shalt alway know them by their faith examined by the scripture, and by their professyo● and consent to live according unto the laws of god.  
How is it possible to know by these means whither he be a final elect or not? while he may both lie & change, and say he believeth otherwise than he doth, or believe here after otherwise than he doth now.  
But yet consider well here good reder, that when ye see Tyndale here go about to teach how they may be known/ he declareth himself that of reason the church must be a church known/ and that it were a thing far out of reason to have the very church unknown. And in this he clearly declareth the madness as well of himself as of Luther & Bar●s and them all, that would have the church a congregation unknown/ and yet labour to devise us marks by all the means they may, whereby their church unknown might seem to be perceived and known.  
Now when he saith, Thou shalt alway know them by their faith examined by the scripture, and by their profession and consent to live after the law of god: I would ●ayne wit which thou he meaneth.  
Thou learned or thou unlearned. wel● ye wot that among the learned, the very sense is in question/ and upon the debating thereof, ariseth all the variance. which thou meaneth he than? Thou that art unlearned: Thou that cannest scantly read it, or thou that cannyst not read it at all? when they that are learned can not perceive it, than thou perdie y● art unlearned shal● perceive it a non, & examine and judge by the scripture which of them say best for their faith of whom thou understandest neither nother/ but the longer that thou hearest them dispute upon the scripture but if thou bring the true faith thither with thee, the less shalt thou there perceive. And in much more doubt depart shalt thou thence, than thou were in when thou camest thither. 
 For as the prophet saith, but if ye believe ye shall not understand. And therefore for every man learned & unlearned for so far as toucheth the necessary doctrine of true faith & living, & exposition of scripture that appertaineth thereto, the very fastness & surtye is, to rest unto the church/ which is as saint Poule saith, the pillar & sure ground of troth. 
1. 〈…〉  And that can be no●e unknown church, which can neither learn nor teach, as they that neither can have preacher no● hearers/ as well for that one of them can not know an other to assemble about election & choice, nor can have any by succession, sith there can be no succession perceived among any such of which no part knoweth other/ & also for that if they neither be of the catholic church nor of any known sect, they can not be suffered to preach or live either among us or them. And if they be of either us or them/ then are they of some known church. And if they be scattered among the church & the divers sects, & neither live nor believe after the doctrine of none of them all/ so long as they so do none of them knowing other, so long be they a secret unknown sect/ but they neither be church nor have church, nor pressed nor preacher among them.  
And if they fall after in acquaintance together & flock together, and each know of others belief and living/ then begin they to be a known sect and a false known church of heretics, because they be gone out of the catholic, some unmedyately and part by a mean●, as those that come together departing out of the divers, all which before departed out of our one. In which one of ours, that is to wit in the known catholic church, the truth doth only rest, sith it well appeareth as I have before plainly proved, that the faith which was with christ & his apostles, hath ever still continued with us/ which is and ever hath been one church still continued from the beginning. And therefore ever from the beginning, those that have by profession departed out of this church, have ever been known, if from the society thereof for schismatics, if from the faith thereof, for heretics. For as that glorious martyr holy saint Cypryane saith: Out of us be they all gone and not we out of them/ but ever from the beginning as heretics or schismatics have risen, either have they by profession departed out, or the church hath cast them out/ and the church ever more hath as the very stock continued still and remained/ & the branches so cut of, have first or last withered away. And so shall all these at length, when the catholic church shall abide & remain & stand fast with god and god fas●e with it, according to god's promise, till the world take an end/ and ever miracles in it and in only it, to declare and make open that the very faith, the very hope, and the very charity still continueth therein/ and that how sick so ever it be, & how much deed flesh so ever be founden in the sick and sore parts of the same, yet alive is ever the body of this church, for in it is the soul and the spirit/ and out of the body of this known continued catholic church, there is in the body of any other church gone out or cast out of this for their contrary belief and faith, or for their rebellious behaviour, there neither is I say nor can be among them all, as all the old holy doctors and saints fully record & testify, neither health, life, head, nor spirit.  
And therefore to finish at last this long chapter of his solution/ it is impossible for Tyndale or all the world beside, to soil that one argument, by which the known catholic church is proved to be the very church of christ/ in that that from the beginning it hath ever still be●e by ordinary course of succession kept and continued one/ and the old faith from the beginning (as by the bakes of holy saints of every age well appeareth) all way continued therein/ and the old right manner of interpretation of the scripture, concerning the faith (as by the same saints holy books appeareth) all way continued therein/ and ever more glorious miracles from the beginning incessauntely persevering therein/ and that it was promised that it should ever continue till the worlds end, an● god therein without any other new church of god to succeed the church of christ in this world, 
Matth. 28.  as it was promymysed and prophesied that the church of christ should succeed & put away the synagogue of Moses'/ & that all other churches and sects of which every one calleth itself the right church, be some at one time some at an other arysen & reared themself against this church, & therefore both gone out & cast out of this church, & there so many divers faiths to the old continued faith every one diversly contrary, and all their interpretations of holy scripture concerning faith and good living diversly, contrary to the doctrine and expositions of all the old holy doctors and saints, as I have often declared you/ or else let Tyndale as I have desired him once or twice I trow all ready, tell us some one of all them that teacheth us the scripture or with out scripture either, that freres may wed nunnys.  
These things I say being thus, that the very church can be but one, and must endure as long as the world lasteth, and can in this world have no new church to succeed it as the synagogue had/ and than that all these churches of these sectis be risen and gone out of the catholic church, and it continueth still: it is impossible I say for Tyndale or all the world beside, to soil the reason and avoid it, but that only this catholic church is the very true church of christ/ and all the churches of sects at sundry times gone out thereof, be churches of heretyques and schismatics and very churches of the devil.  
And thus good christian readers have I plainly proved you, that Tyndale and his fellows and all these sundry sects, nor yet any one of them all, be not as he blasphemeth and scoffeth to be resembled unto christ & his apostles/ as gone out of the catholic church, in like manner as they went out of the synagogue that then should have an end, to begin a new that while the world lasted should never have end, nor any church be true save it self. But that Tyndale and all his fellows & all their sects, be so gone out and put out of this catholic church of Cryste● as lucifer and his fellows by pride first departed out and by power was after put out of the church of god in heaven.  
And like wise also as Cain was by god put out of the church of good folk, for his obstinate malice in earth.  
And like wise as Chore, Dathan, and Abyron with their fellows, 
 made a sect of scysmatyques and bend away fro the church of Moses and Aaron in desert/ for which they went quykke under earth, & as it seemeth hell swalloweth them up. 
Num. 1●.   
And like wise also as the ten trybies of Israel departed with Hieroboam from their very king Roboam the son of Solomon/ with which rebellious departing from their king, all be it they were not well handled with him, but were threatened and put in fere of oppression, yet was god as saint Cypriayn by scripture proveth greatly disposed with them/ and his very church most specially then remained in the smaller company the two trybies only, from which the ten were gone. And these heretics be gone out of the catholic church in like manner, 
 as the great company of Crystes disciples went from him when he was about to teach him the faith of his very body and blood in the sacrament of the altar/ for which and from which Huchyn, Huyskyn, and Swynglius, be now gone away to. And yet as the very church remained in these few that abode and continued/ so shall the very church ever abide and continue in these few that persever in the stokke, be it minished and mynced never so small/ and always those that go therefro, shallbe but withered branches and churches of heretics and schismatics, be they never so great nor so many.  
These heretics depart also from the catholic church in such wise as judas departed fro the church of Criste at the maunday supper, 
M●r●i. 14.  when he went to betray the head of tha● church, and utterly to dissolve the body. And like wise do all these sects of heretics, which in the point do more then verily represent the scribes and pharisees, whom saint Iohn called the generation of vypars. For as the young viper serpents gnaw out their mother's belly, 
Matt●●. ●.  and those scribes and pharisees did by their false doctrine labour to destroy the very true doctrine of the synagogue, whereof they were engendered: so do all these cursed serpentine sects of heretics, both with their false errors and heresies, labour to destroy the true doctrine/ and also with sowing of dissension and seditious schisms, go about to gnaw out the very belly of their mother the holy cath●lyke church. And therefore will they, but if they do (as I pray god give them grace to do) repent their malice and amend, else undowtely have their part with judas, and with such other as I have showed you that departed from the true church before, and with such other heretics as departed also from the church in the time of the blessed apostles after/ as were the Ebionytes that said christ was but only man and not god, against whom saint Iohn the evangelist wrote his holy gospel/ and the Nycolaites which would have all women in comen, against whom god speaketh himself in th'apocalypse, 
A●●●. 2.  which both heresies be now begun to be brought up again among the sects of these new heretyques in Almaigne/ which sects Tyndale calleth the very true church of Cryste● because they depart only and go from ours/ where he seeth well by the old books, that we have the same faith that th'apostles had/ and heareth with his own ears that they have the same heresies which th'apostles dampened.  
So see you good readers, that the many sects are come vote of the one church/ the naughty out of the good, the false out of the true. And Tyndale argueth the contrary way/ and thereby would make us ween that the good cometh ever out of the bad, and leaveth the naughty behind. And by that way shall not only Luther's lecherous ch●rch be better than the catholic church of Chryst/ but also Lucyfer his church of devils in hell, be better than the church of god and his good angels, that lucifer when he fell from thence left still with god behind him in the glorious bliss of heaven.  
And thus end I good christian reader this boke● in which every child almost that advysedely readeth it, may well and clearly perceive that Tyndales solution is not worth one ryshe/ but the reason that he would have soiled, is and abideth still so mighty strong and invincible, as a reason before me made by the strong and mighty champion the invincible martyr saint Cypryan●/ that by that one reason alone it is I dare boldly say, well and plainly proved that this known catholic church which Tyndale would impugn, dysp●oue, and destroy, is alone the very true chy●che of christ, which all the devils in hell shall never be able to pull down/ and that these hundred sundry sects which Tyndale would have taken for the very church of christ, be very false heretyques all the whole rabble, and synagogues of Satan, and very churches of the devil all ready deed and utterly destroyed in spirit/ and but if they return to the catholic church again, will else with judas be ●eryed and burn in hell.   
¶ Thus endeth the vi book.   

¶ The vii book. Here beginneth the vii book in defence of the second reason, proving the known catholic church to be the very church of christ. which second reason is, that we know not which is the scripture, but by the known catholic church.  

The defence of the second reason.  Tyndale. 
AN other like blind reason they have, wherein is all their trust. As we come out of them and they not out of us/ so we receive the scripture of them and they not of us. How know we that it is the scripture of god and true, but because they teach us so. How can we that believe, except we first believe that they be the church, and can not err● in any thing that pertaineth unto our soul's health. ●or if a man tell me of a marvelous thing, whereof I can have no nother knowledge then by his mouth only/ how should I give credence, except I believed that the man were so honest that he could not lie or w●lde not lie. Wherefore we must believe that they be the right church that can not err, or else we can believe nought at all. This wise reason is their sheet-anchor, and all their h●lde, their refuge to flight, & chief stone in their foundation, whereon they have built all their lies and all their mischief that they have wrought this eight hundred years.  More. 
This reason good reader which Tindale would here so fain answer and soil, is the thing wherewith the king our sovereign lord as a most erudite prince in his most famous book of the assertion of the sacraments, strained Luther so sore, that hitherto neither himself nor any companion of his, durst ever once attempt any answer thereunto/ till Tyndale now perceiving the kings argument in that point, so strong that every man much alloweth it and feeleth it for invincible, waxeth for anger so stark mad at last/ that he maketh his assays and assautens here thereat/ and loseth not only his labour in the end, but also by some of his own arguments, wherewith he would impugn it, maketh it rather more strong, and proveth it plain inexpugnable.  
But Tyndale all be it that he rehearse the reason ●n such wise himself, that he soileth it not afterward so surely as he rehearseth it/ nor never were like why●e he liveth, all though the reason had no more than he rehearseth: yet doth the kings grace against Luther besides all this that Tyndale rehearseth, put an other piece or twain of pytthe and strength therein.  
For where as in the time of holy saint austin, such heretics as then were, played as these do now, denying the common known catholic church to be the very church of god, and the doctrine thereof to be true: that blessed doctor among many other things with which he plainly confuted that foolish heresye● said and affirmed plainly that himself should not have believed the gospel, but if the authority of the catholic church compelled him thereunto.  
This saying of saint austin Luther himself alloweth. For though he will in no wise agree, that the hole catholic church gathered together in a general counsel, hath any authority or power to make any laws at all: yet he granteth that the certainty by which we know and be put in surety, which is the very scripture of god, and which not, a man hath his learning and teaching of that point by the church of god, for the church hath saith Luther according to the saying of austin, this thing given it of god, that it can judge and discern the words of god from the words of men.  
Then laid our said sovereign lord Luther's own words against Luther's own heresies, for the faith of the catholic church, in divers places divers ways. For sith Luther confessed that the church hath that gift of god, that it can discern the word of god from the word of man: it followeth sayeth his grace that those things which the church sayeth, is the word of god unwritten and traditions of the apostles, (of which Luther would none believe, because they were not written) be the very word of god as well as those that be written.  
And in that reason his grace gave Luther & Tyndale and all their whole sect such a sure fall, that they shall never well arise and walk up right while they live again. For as his highness laid unto him, sith Luther can not say nay but that he must believe the church when it telleth him that these things god caused his apostles to write/ wherefore must he not as much believe it, when it telleth him These things god caused his apostles to tell and teach by mouth? Then laid his highness unto Luther ferther, his own words against himself this wise.  
Luther himself confesseth that god hath given the church that gift, that it can discern the words of god from the words of men. And wherefore hath he given the church that gift, but because he will not suffer his church to fall into such a perilous error, as to take the words of men for the words of god/ whereby men might fall to some evil opinions as well in faith as other virtues. But so is it that by the error of wrong taking the sense of god's words, men may fall into the like peril, & also to a great deal greater. For the writing of man taken for the scripture of god, might either by some convenient comment devised upon the truth written in men's hearts, or by the plain persuasion & confession of our own ignorance, that the sentence were not sufficiently perceived & understanden, might I say be contained & kept from doing any great harm. But the scripture of god taken as it is for his own words, & then understonden falsely/ must needs cast the people into a very falls error in stead of very true faith.  
Now thereupon it very well followeth, that god never will permit & suffer his church to fall in any damnable error thorough miss understanding & wrong declaration of the scripture/ for as much as by the taking in necessary points of faith or virtue the false sentence for the true, must needs grow much more peril and harm, then by the taking of man's false writing for the true scripture of god.  
By this argument lo the kings highness utterly confuted Luther upon Luther's own words/ & proved him that he may never say nay for shame, but that in all necessary points the very true sense and exposition of the scripture, is in the church & the holy doctors thereof. whose expositions as by their books appeareth, openly reprove such expositions thereof, as all these heretics have devised for the maintenance of their heresies.  
Then laid his highness unto Luther his own words afore said yet again in this wise.  
sith god hath as Luther confesseth given the church that gift, that it discerneth the words of god from the words of man/ Luther well showeth himself such as he is, while he calleth the pistle of saint James the word of man, which the church hath so long discerned and judged for the word of god.  
Finally the self same words of Luther as the kings highness handleth them, fully do conclude Luther & Tyndale both, in proving the known catholic church to be the very church/ which is now as ye know well, all our whole matter.  
For sith saint austin saith and Luther also confesseth, that the church hath this gift of god, that it discerneth the very scripture of god from the writing of man/ and in those words, both saint austin and Luther both spoke of the known catholic church, and not of an unknown church: it appeareth plain that both saint austin and Luther affirm, confess, & agree, that the known catholic church is the very church/ and not that any church of heretics is the church/ for to none of them god never gave that gift of discretion. For no man ever took the scripture because any of them said so/ but all they as they have comen out of the catholic church, so have of the catholic church received the scripture/ and upon the credence of that church, have they all believed it/ as Tyndale can not deny, though these new heretics be now for defence of their heresies, fain to forsake some part of the scripture to.  
Now good christian readers, consider well I require you these effectual points, which our sovereign lord so substantially laid unto Luther upon his own words/ and I doubt not but yourself shall easily perceive & see, that the same things shall stand strong and sure/ & over that answer and overthrow all the substance of Tyndals' solution here. whose words let us now look on again and examine.  Tyndale. 
This wise reason is their shoot anchor and all their whole refuge, and chief stone in their foundation/ whereupon they have bylte all their lies, and all their mischief that they have wrought these eight hundred years.  More. 
This reason Tyndale here maketh very light, & saith that these viii hadred year the catholic church hath builded so many lies and so much mischief thereon/ by all which time of viii. hundred years, if the whole catholic church have been in errors and heresies as Tyndale here saith and his master Martyne Luther before him, then hath christ broken all his promises, by which he promised to be with his church all days to the worlds end.  
For by all this viii hundred years hath christ had none other church continuing that any man can tell of/ but if Tyndale will say yes/ and when he can neither tell which nor where, will yet say still yes, and nothing but yes, and look that we should against our own experience upon his bare word believe him, because he saith still yes/ with as much proof in his yes, as a goose hath in her hiss.  
Tyndale seeth well also, as ye shall after perceive though he dyssymyle it now/ that when he saith this wise reason is their shoot anchor, this reason that he mocketh is not only theyres whom he would seem to mock, that is to wit the catholic church of this, viii. years/ in which time have been men of such holiness and virtue and now holy saints in heaven, whose faithful holy writings condemn his faithless heresies, that every good man I dare say will think them full unmetely to be mokked and jested upon by such a foolish fellow as this is/ which while he sets so little by saint Thomas, saint Bonaventure, saint bernard, saint Anselme, and all such other men as have written in the church this viii hundred year: he seeth yet well enough that the reason which he mocketh, was made by the holy doctor saint austin four or five hundred year before that/ and that the same holy man byelded thereupon the self same byelding, that the catholic church repaireth and keepeth up now/ and which byelding these heretics would now pull down/ that is to say that god teacheth his church the troth, 
johan. 16  and leadeth it into all troth as he promised, and will not suffer it damnably to err, and for that cause will not suffer it to be deceived in miss taking of the very scripture, nor consequently for the same cause for such myssetaking of the right sense and understand thereof, whereby they should fall in any damnable error thorough the false belief, in any manner point whereof god would have them to know and believe the truth.  
These are the things that holy saint austin made that reason for, against such heretics as Luther and Tyndale be now. which other did then as these do now, labour to make folk believe that their church of heretyques were the very church, and the catholic church were a church of heretics. Against those heretics say I, and with them against these heretyques to, did that holy doctor saint austin, not only eight hundred year ago, which were yet a longer time by almost half then ever had any sect of heretyques any continuance yet/ but longer before eight hundred year then almost half viii C. again, make this invincible reason which now this worshipful wild goose so comely scoffeth and scorneth/ by which for all his goodly scoffing at saint austin's reason, he shall never while he liveth avoydeyt, but that saint austin hath by that reason alone, all though he never had made more/ where as Tindale well knoweth though he would have it seem nay, that saint austin made for that purpose many more/ but though he never had I say made more for that purpose then that one: yet had that one against Martyne Luther and wyllyam Tyndale to, and against all the heretics that ever have been, are now, or ever shall be hereafter, well and clearly proved that their church be all the many false, and only the known catholic church the very true church of christ.  
And now sith this reason that Tyndale here setteth so light, was as himself after confesseth, made by saint austin himself so meinie hundred year ago, and hath be● well liked and allowed of every good wise man sins: let us now see with what substantial answer Tyndale can scoff it out.  Tyndale. 
And this reason do the jews say unto our charge this day. And this reason doth chiefly blind them, and hold them still in obs●ynacy.  More. 
O good lord, what great pity it was that saint austin had not had as much wit as wyllyam Tyndale that he might have seen that his argument would so soon be soiled/ and that it was no better for the church against heretyques, then for the jews against christendom / but even the self same reason that maintaineth, them in their obstinacy & keepeth them from christendom.  
But surely saint austin good man saw not so far. For sith her never found in all his days, neither jew nor heretic so mad to make him that answer which might so, soon be voided/ he trusted well good man that there would never none be so foolish in such wise to soil it after.  
How be it if saint austin had had no more to say to the jews for the defence of his reason, than the heretics had to say to him in the soiling of his reason: then might the heretyques well have mokked saint austin, as Tyndale doth now, and soiled his reason in the self same fashion/ and so would they soon have done ye may be sure, had they not seen full well that they should have won themself nothing but shame thereby. For if any he retyke would so have said unto saint austin, that the jews might say the same to the christian people, you know not the scriptures of god but by us because we tell you so, ergo we be the very church of god/ and us ye must believe as well in the understanding of the scripture, as ye believe us in the knowing which is the scripture: saint austin would soon have said again, that christian people might answer the jew and say, we neither receive the scripture of you nor know the scripture by you, nor yet believe you neither in the declaration thereof. For if we did/ then must we grant the gospel were no scripture, nor nothing that any of Crystes apostles wrote, nor some books neither which were taken out of your own hebrew tongue. And therefore we know never a book of scripture by your teaching, but miss trust rather every book of scripture that cometh out of your hands. For the synagogue of Moses which was while it lasted the church of god, is now ended and is his church no longer. B●t our saviour christ hath begun and continued his church, this known catholic church gathered of jews & gentiles both together. And he took not the old scriptures of you, nor of you neither learned to know them, nor of you to understand them/ but he made them all, and by the writers thereof himself endyghted them. And he delivered unto us that church, both those old and also some other new, and yet diverse other instructions of his pleasure in things that he would have believe and done, whereof he caused no part to be written. And then he taught and ever teacheth and ever shall teach, his catholic church to know as well those holy writings as those other holy things unwritten, with all necessary understanding of those holy writings to. And all this he teacheth his ch●rch by himself and his own spirit, according to his own promise evermore abiding therein, 
 to lead it in to all necessary troth, 
 to th'intent that his catholic church may be to every man that will learn thereof and give credence thereunto as himself commandeth every man to do● a very sure stablyshement and a strong pillar of troth/ as well in perceiving which is the true scripture, as the necessary learning of the true understanding of the scripture/ & over that of every other thing that god will have done or believe beside the scripture. which scriptures ye jews nothing now belong unto you● sith ye be no longer the church for whom they serve/ and as much of them as ye can catch in your hands, ye use to miss wright and corrupt, and change the very te●te in such places as the true text maketh for our saviour christ, and for the catholic faith taught by himself & his holy spirit unto his catholic church.  
Thus lo, with yet many better things more than either my poor wit or learning can devise, could saint austin have answered any such heretic that would have soiled his reason with the jews argument, as Tyndale now doth here..  
And farther than might saint austin have said to that heretic, as we may say to this heretic, that what so ever the jews would ●aber or ●angle again, ye that are christian men and falsely profess christ, which falling from h●s faith still pretend his name, ye can not say but that the jew is truly and reasonably answered.  
And therefore may we say to Tyndale, that he can not say for the mayntenannce of his solution, any such thing against the reason of saint austin, as saint austin might have said against such other heretics. For Tyndale can not say that the church of christ is at an end as the synagogue of the jews is/ nor can not deny but that he took the scripture of the church, and learned to know the scripture by the teaching of the church/ & that none other church, but the known catholic church, unto which god hath given the gift to discern and know the scripture from all other writing/ as Tyndales own master Martyne Luther as false as he is, could not yet for shame but confess.  
And thus lo good christian readers, here ye clearly see that Tyndales example and similitude of the jews, whereby he would shake of saint austins reason made against he retykes, to prove the catholic church the very church, is well and clearly voided and proved far unlike/ so that Tyndale must seek himself a new solution for this. And so ye shall see him do anon/ but ye must give him leave to rail a little first.  Tyndale. 
Our spirits first falsify the scripture, to stablish their lies.  More. 
Lo good readers, I told you ye must give him leave to rail a little, ye & to lie a little to/ for else he can not speak. But yet god be thanked that his goodness hath made it well perceived and known, that only the sects of heretics departing out of the catholic church, have used ever the craft, not only to refuse for scripture some part of the very scripture in deed/ but also for favour of their false he resyes, to change, corrupt, and of purpose to falsify, with rasing and false writing, the true text of those books that themself take and confess for the very scripture in deed.  
Let Tyndale tell us any one piece of holy scripture that the catholic church refuseth. He can not for shame say it/ where as these heretics refuse and reject diverse partis of the pistle of saint jamys, and some other peyces to now and then when they ly●●e.  
Let Tyndale tell what one text, what one word, the catholic church hath gone about to corrupt or change to make the text the more meet for their matter. Now hath it been an old prank of heretics, to use that fashion of malicious corrupting the books of the holy scripture in in their hands/ as ye may read in authentic stories, that the Arrianies did, and were shamefully taken with all.  
Of this falsefyenge we have also a fresh new ensample given us by Tyndale himself in his translation/ wherein he falsifieth the true text of the testament of christ, and putteth out both penance, pressed, & church, with cherite, grace, and all/ turning them into other word●●, for the setting forth & avauncing of his false faccyouse heresies.  
Of this falsefyenge have these heretics also given us good ensample, in the books that they have put forth, and in the calendar of the saints have put out saint Po●ycarpus that holy man the xxiii day of February, and set in in his place a stark wretched heretic, late burned at Maydeston and now burning in hell called Thomas Hytton, whom they call in their calendar saint Thomas of Kente  
Such purpensed falsefyenge of books use always these heretics, and none at any time but heretics.  
Thus do they falsify the books of the old holy doctors and saints, such as they either do translate or cause to be put in prente, as doth in divers places appear, and may be clearly proved.  
And lately have they played that pagea●nt in falsefyeng the very text ofscrypture, in such wise that they show therein their honest plainness and their substantial truth.  
For have not some of Tyndals' holy elected sort changed the latin text of saint Poule in the first pistle to the Corinthians. 
1. Corint●. ●  For where the old translation hath this word fornicarii & the new translation scortatores, which signifieth in english, whore hunters/ they have put in this word sacerdotes, that is to say priests.  
And even as they have handled the holy scripture of god, so have they used themself in other writers that expone and declare the scripture. For the Lutherans putt● certain words of their own into a book which is ascribed unto saint Chrysosteme, to make it seem that in whom some ever were faith, he could not be possibly without good works.  
And Huyskyn also in his translation of the cunning bishop Theophylactus upon saint Iohn his gospel, left out in the exposition of the xxi chapter, not a few lines. And lest if it were perceived it might be laid to his charge/ he said that his book lacked somewhat in that place, where as other men's books lack it not.  
And holy saint Thomas allegeth in his book called Cathena aurea, the words which Huyskyne would have seem that they could not be founden in the work. But for what good intent and purpose he so said, the place itself who so ever look thereon shall very well show.  
How may Tyndale now good christian readers, considering this false shameless fashion of falsefyenge, so daily founden in his fellows and himself to, as well as in other heretics of old time, be now so bold as in his railing against the catholic church, to name once the name of falsefyenge the scripture.  
But now goeth he forth and saith, that they falsify the sentence of the scripture.  Tyndale. 
And when the scripture cometh to light, and is restored unto the true understanding, and their juggling spied, and they like to suffer shy●warke: then they cast out this anchor/ they be the church and can not err, their authority is greater than the sc●ypture, and the scripture is not true, but by cause they say so and admit it. And therefore what so ever they affirm, is of as great authority as the scripture.  More. 
Tyndale here speaketh of iewgling, which he saith we use in mysconstrewing of the scripture, and which he maketh as it were now spied out, and the scripture restored unto his right sense again. But here is it i'the to spy and perceive his iewgling well enough, how he iewgleth himself over the style ere he come at it. For ere ever he get over the hedge, & tell us what we do when our iewgling is spied/ there is a little labour for him of half a miles walking ere he come at the hedge, in which he should tell us and rehearse us some of those texts of scripture, which the catholic church or the doctors thereof have falsefyed with iewgling away the right understanding, & which texts himself and his sect, that is to wit all the sextes (for of them all is he as contrary as each is to other) have now restored unto his right sense again.  
Thus he should have showed us first, and then have showed us after what the church saith therein, & prove that exposition false, & that by such exposition the true sense were juggled away. This way should Tyndale take.  
But for as much as he loveth well to walk in the dark, and there to iewgle as men may not see to his hands: I shall light him a candle and let you see for a sample some of these texts that he meaneth of, & for shame dare not speak of  
He meaneth all those texts of scripture that speak of good wurkes, and by which texts god promiseth that good wurkes clensen our souls. 
Lucae. 11.  As where our saviour saith, That thing that ye have more then enough give out in almose, and than lo be all things cle●e unto you.  
And where the scripture saith, 
 Like as water quenche●h the fire, so doth almose deed put of sin: 
 And this text also, A man's own richesse do redeem his soul.  
He meaneth also all such texts of scripture, as give us warning that god will reward our good works in heaven, and that for lack of good wurkes men shallbe dampened in hell. As where our saviour ●aythe himself in the gospel of saint Mathewe, 
Matt●●. ●●●  The son of man shall come in his father's glory with his angels, and then shall he reward every man according to his deeds. 
2. C●ri●●●. ●.  And by the mouth of saint Poule, we must all be brought before the judgement seat of christ, that every man may receive the works of his own body, according as he hath done whither it be good or evil. Also in the Apocalyps, 
Ap●●. ●.  I shall reward every one of you according to your deadies. And again in the xxii chapter, 
Apo●●. 22  Behold I come shortly, 
〈◊〉. 5  and my reward is with me to give every man according as his works shallbe. 
 And in many plain places of scripture more. 
  
All these texts lo do Luther and Tyndale say, 
〈◊〉. 25.  that the catholic church juggle from their true sense, because they teach them as god and the holy ghost hath spoken them & verily meant and intended by them.  
And all these texts do these holy sects so restore again to their right sense and understanding, that they clean destroy them, and construe them clean contrary both to the plain words and meaning/ and would with their evil gloss make men believe, that all the good works were right nought worth at all, and that nothing shallbe rewarded but only faith, nor no man for any thing dampened but for only lack of belief.  
And therefore saith saint Luther inspired with the spirit of lucifer, that a good man when he doth any good deed, he doth sin/ and that there can no thing damn a christian man as long as he will believe. For what sins so ever he do bysyde, if faith either stand still with him or come again unto him, his faith doth than sup up in a moment all his sins at once, without any penance at all. He weeneth he were supping up of a rear rotten egg without either breed ●r salt/ for there needeth none other penance ye wot well thereto, but even drink well to it.  
with this goodly gloze lo restore these men these texts of scripture unto the right sense again.  
Then when we tell them that good works by which they set so lytle● god setteth so much by, that by the mouth of his blessed apostle saint jamys, he giveth all the world warning, 
Iac●●i. 2.  that the belief wherein they put all the life, is without good works in him that may work a thing as to wching any life of grace or glory clearly des●ytute & deed: when we tell Luther, Tyndale, or Bar●s this tale, then wrestle they with that text, and writhe it and wrest it about, and fain would wind themself out with iewgling faith alone into faith, hope, and charity. But perceiving that foolish iewgling to be so fond a point, that all that look thereon laugh thereat/ they shake of that text an other way, and the whole pistle therewith, because of other plain words that saint jamys hath therein for the sacrament of annealing. For which to rid themself of both the business at once, 
jacobi. 5.  and of many sore words also, wherewith saint jamys doth in the same pistle as plainly preach against these heretics, and as surely describeth them, as though he had long been conversant & in compavy with them/ as the kings highness excellently well marketh and rehearseth: Luther letteth not upon the boldness and authority of his apostasy, to reject and cast out as no scripture that whole pistle of Crystes blessed apostle/ saying that wise men affirm it to be none of his, and that it hath no smakke of any apostolic spirit. And yet blasphemeth farther and sayeth, that if it were his in deed, he would not let to tell him, that in some things there the apostle took more upon him than might well become him.  
Then concerning the sacraments, all such as themself deny, that is to wit five of the s●uen, all such texts as in the scripture speak of them/ those they gloze as it pleaseth them. As in the sacrament of presthed, the words of saint Poule unto Timothe, by which he plainly speaketh of grace given unto Tymothe 
2. Thimot. 1.  by the putting of his hands upon him/ that Tyndale sayeth was but as a man layeth his hand upon a boy's head when he calleth him good son.  
In the sacrament of matrimony, where as saint Poule saith it is a great sacrament/ those words gloseth Luther, and saith that saint Poule peradventure said that of his own head.  
In the blessed sacrament of the altar, 
Mat●●. 2●  where as our saviour said himself, This is my body/ there gloseth Luther his words, and sayeth it is as much to say, as this is breed with my body. And frere Huyskyn, Tyndale, and Swynglius, glosen it, and saith that these words, This is my body, be as much to say as this is nothing, and but only signifieth my body, and is not my body at all.  
And as concerning holy vows, where the scripture sayeth, pay your vows/ frere Luther, frere Huyskyn, Swynglius, and Tyndale, so gloze yt● that they conclude that every frere may set his vow at nought, and wed a nun when he will.  
And thus lo good christian readers, do these holy folk bring the scripture to light, 
Psa●. 25  and restore it to the true understanding/ and spy out the iewgling of the catholic church, that would juggle away such good gloss.  
Now where Tyndale sayeth that we say that th'authority of the church is grea●er than the scripture/ and that the scripture is not true, but because the church saith so and admit it: in this he sayeth his pleasure as him listeth to jest/ for he heareth no man so mad to say so● for the scripture were true though never man looked thereon. But this in deed we say, that the church hath the gift of god to discern which is the very scripture and which not. And that we say true in this/ not only saint austin perdie, but holy Luther himself also Tyndales own master, beareth us against Tyndale good and substantial wytnes●e. And we say that thereupon followeth it though Tyndale and Luther both say nay, that the same church is the very church. And so we say yet again that Tyndale is concluded in the principal point.  
And where he saith that we say, that every thing that the church sayeth, is of as great authority as the scripture: we say that god shall never suffer in matter of salvation or damnation, the catholic church to say but the troth/ because of his promises made which we have often rehearsed, & because he will have the catholic church to be to such as will learn, the pillar and sure stablyshement of troth, as well in doctrine of faith as of manners. And thereupon we very truly conclude, that the whole catholic church of xu hundred year, is better to be believed then Luther or Tyndale either in the understanding of scripture/ and that we therefore rather ought to believe the catholic church, that by the understanding of scripture hath told us this xu hundred year, that it is abominable for a frere to wed a nun, then to believe wyllyam Tyndale/ which in defence of Martyne his master, or frere Luther himself either, which for the defence of his own shameful sin, by the false glozing of the scripture, affirmeth that freres to wed nunnys were well and virtuously done.  
And thus ye see to what good effect Tyndales solution is come/ wherewith he would answer saint austin's reason, by fearing him that the jews might lay the same reason for them.  
But now goth Tindale well favouredly forth with a great face of a neither full solution/ and at a great length telleth us in effect none other manner thing but the self same tale again/ and yet hath he told it us once every deal in his other solution of the first reason/ before which solution I have soiled, and from all wit and reason assoiled in my last book before.  Tyndale. 
Notwytstanding as I said, the kingdom of heaven standeth not in words of man's wisdom, but in power and spirit.  More. 
This is very well said/ & in his solution of the first reason he said y● wot well the same. And now see ye well that for the catholic church both the reasons be first brought forth by very spiritual men/ the first reason by saint Cyprian, the second by saint austin. And it hath such power, that it forced Luther himself Tyndales own master, to consent and agree thereto. And the catholic church hath also for her part the great power of the holy spirit of god, that in this catholic church from the beginning unto this present day, never hath ceaced yet nor never shall I trust, to show many marvelous miracles. whereof let us now see whither Tyndale speaking so much of spirit & power, can tell us of any spirit at any time assisting any of all the churches of so many sects of heretics, that ever had the might and power to show so much as any one miracle this fifteen hundred year among them everichone. But what? in stead of such spirit and such power, ye shall here now that this high spiritual man shall make you some strong potancyall reason.  Tyndale. 
And therefore look unto the samples of scripture, and s●●halt thou vnder●tande. And of an hundred ensamples between M●yses and chrism, where the israelites fell from god and were ever restored by one prophet ●r other, let us take one even Iohn baptist. Iohn went be●●re christ to prepare his way/ that is to bring men unto the knowledge of their sins and vnt● repentance, thorough tr●w expounding of the law, which is the one●y w●●e unto christ. For except a man knowledge his sins and repent of them/ he can h●●e no part in christ. Of Iohn christ saith Matt. xvii. that he was E●ias that should come and restore all thing. That is he should res●●●e the scripture unto the right sense again/ which the pharisees had corrupt with the ●e●ē of their false gloss and vain fleshly traditions. He made crooked things straight, as it is written, and rough smooth. Which is also to l● understand o● the scripture which the pharisees had made crooked, wresting them unto a false sense with wicked gloss, and so rough that no man could walk in the way of them. For when god said, honour father and mother, meaning that we should obey them and also help them at their need/ the pharisees put these g●ose ●●erto out of their own leaven, saying: God is thy father and mother. Wherefore w●at so ever need thy father and mother have, if thou offer to god thou art ho●e excused. For it is better to offer to god then to thy father and mother, and so my●e more mery●oryous as god is greater than they: ye and god hath ●●ne more f●r the then they, and is more thy father and mother than they. As ●ur● 〈◊〉 affirm, that it is more meritorious to offer to god and kiss holy deed saints, then unto the poor living saints. And when god had promised the people a saviour to come and bless them and save them from their sins/ the pharisees taught to believe in holy works to be saved by, as if they offered and gave t● be prayed for. As ours, as oft as we have a promise to be forgiven at the repentance of the heart thorough Crystes blood shedding, put to, thou must first ●oryue thyself to us of every syllable/ and we must lay our hands on thine ●ed, and whistle out thy sins, and enjoin the penance to make satisfaction. And yet art thou but loused from the sin only that thou shalt not come in to hell/ but thou must yet suffer for every sin seven years in purgatory, ●h●●he is as who● as hell/ except thou buy it out of the pope. And if thou as●e by what means the pope giveth such pardon/ They answer out of the merits of christ. And thus at the last they grant against themselves, that christ hath not only deserved for us the remission of our sins, but also the forgiveness of that gross and fleshly imagined purgatory, save thou must buy it out of the pope. And with such traditions they took away the key of knowledge, and stopped up the kingdom o● heaven, that no man could enter in.  
And as I said, they taught the pe●ple to believe in the deeds of the ceremonies, which god ordained not to justify but to be signs of promises, by which they that believed were justified. But the pharisees put out the significations, and quenched the faith, and taught to be justified by the work/ as ours have served us.  
For our sacraments were onse but signs, partly o● what we should believe to star us up unto faith/ and partly what we should do, to star us up to do the law of god/ and were not works to iustyfy●.  
Now make this reason unto Iohn and unto many prophets that went before him and did as he did, ye and unto ●ryste himself and his apostles/ and thou shalt find them all heretics, and the scribes and pharisees good men, if that reason be good.  More. 
Lo good christen readers here have I rehearsed you his long process, not in pieces but even as it lieth together/ by which ye ●ay see that Tyndale doth nothing here, but tell us the self same tale that he told us before in his solution to the first reason. For there he told us the same tale of the scribes, and pharisees, and synagogues, and saint Iohn baptist, and christ, and his apostles/ with his resembling of the scribes and pharisees, and synagogue, to the clergy and to the catholic church/ and himself, and his holy master Martin Luther, and frere Huiskyn, frere Lambert, and Swynglius, & such other holy heretics, unto saint Iohn and our saviour & his apostles, as prophets now new comen to begin the true church of god again, by going out of the catholic church/ in like manner as Criste and his apostles, & saint Iohn the fore ●oer, came to begin again the true church of god, by calling men from the synagogue.  
All this tale as he told it there so now for a new thing he telleth us again here. And all this tale as I there answered it and clearly proved it nought, so shall I desire the reder to resort thither, and there to read mine answer/ and than shall he find that like wise as this is but his old tale new told, so needeth it none other confutation but even mine answer new red.  
For where he beginneth again here as he did there, his hundred prophets that were sent between the days of Moses and christ to call again the israelites being so often in the mean while fallen from christ unto idolatry: he can never prove that sith Christ's days the catholic church hath once so done, nor that ever it so shall here after/ but if he prove therewith all Christ's promises broken, 
Lucae. 22.  by which he hath promised to keep his church therefro/ as when he said that the gates of hell should never prevail against his church/ and that himself had so prayed for saint Peter, 
〈…〉  that his faith which he confessed should never fail nor be put out of his church/ and that he ●old send the holy ghost therein to teach it all troth and lead it into all troth/ and that himself would be there with all days unto the very end of the world.  
By this it appeareth plainly, 
Matt●. 23.  that though they which fall from this church, that is to wit such sects of heretics as go out thereof, may fall to idolatry: yet the church itself, that is to say the stock that standeth still and remaineth, god shall never suffer to fall from the faith, but if he break all these promises/ which we be sure that the unchangeable truth of his own nature, being as himself said the very natural truth, can never suffer him to do.  
And so Tyndale can in this point never make the synagogue of Moses like the church of christ, that is to wit the known continued catholic church/ to the only which as saint austin saith and Luther confesseth, and Tyndale can not say nay, god hath given the grace to know the very scripture from the false, and the words of god from the words of men, and to teach other folk the same all such as give credence to it.  
Besides this, if he will make his ensample like/ then must he first name us a good sort of those hundred prophets, that in that mean time between Moses & christ called the people home from idolatry. And then if he so do/ he shall find them such as the doctrine of the latter agreed & consented with the doctrine of the elder/ or if god by the lat●●r opened and revealed any ferther thing, he yet by miracles and other open means proved them for so good & holy, that though the people and the princes both did dysalow them, and hated them, and killed them to/ yet when they were deed, varied they never so far from their doctrine, and were the never so far from the following of their living while they lived, yet they perceived them after for saints, and had them in perpetual honour and reverence to their own condemnation as our saviour sayeth by their contrary living and persecuting of the like, and yet to the testimony of the troth through god's provision, for the profit of other that would both follow them and believe them better.  
And therefore if Tyndale will now make his matter good and his ensample like/ he must rehearse us a like sort of some such other holy prophets, as god hath sith the death of christ in this xu hundred year, sent hither to call home his church from idolatry/ as those other prophets were that he speaketh of/ sent in shorter season, to call home again the jews.  
This must he show us if he show any thing to purpose. And than whom shall he name us? Nicholaus and Cheryntus, Uigilantius Dormitantius, Manicheus, Ualentinus, Arrius, Jovinian, helvidius, Ennomius, Martion, Montanus, wyclyffe, and hus/ and a sort of lewd wedded freres, as Luther, and Lambert, and Huyskyn/ or priests apostataas from the christian faith, as Pomeran, Suynglius, and Huchyn here himself. If he name you these/ let him prove them once good men, or at the lest wise some one among them all, let him prove their doctrine agreeable, or at the lest wise obstinately not repugnant/ let him that showeth any ferther thing than his fellows, by some manner mean prove himself sent by god, or such a man at the lest wise as the people might have cause to reckon him for his living, a man very likely for god in so great a matter to cheese out specially and send forth on his errand.  
But thus ye wot well that of all these that are deed, the world heareth not a good word that ever there was one good of them, but openly condemned for false. And as for these that now live/ we see well at our own eyen, they be stark ribalds all● And agreement in their doctrine, neither is there none now nor never was there yet. Miracles as shameless as they be, they can not for shame say that ever they showed any. So that these were never any of the holy men, whom god hath sent to call home his church so often from idolatry to ●ayth, as Tyndale sayeth that the hundred prophets an hundred times called home the jews. And yet such must he show if he say aught to purpose.  
And therefore if these heretics will now be resembled to christ and his apostles and to saint Iohn/ let Tyndale tell us which of them to which of these? If these be now sent to call the catholic church to the right faith from which it was fallen before, as Chryst was and his apostles with saint Iohn his fore goer to call home the synagogue/ than let Tyndale now tell us which of them he resembleth to saint johan, which to Christ's apostles, and which unto christ himself. And if he liken Luther to christ, thenne who was Luther's saint Iohn Babtyste and fore goer/ or else whose fore goer and baptist is Luther, to whom maketh he the way now as the t'other did to Chryst? I ween in good faith to antichrist, and so forth to the devil of hell.  
How be it of truth, holy prophets hath there been sent unto the world by god and into the church of Chryst, more than an hundred sith the death of christ, to keep in the right faith and call home the people fro sin, by the true doctrine of the spirit, inspyring them the right sense of scripture, & what so ever god would have known beside. whose doctrine in the necessary points did agree together, and which were holy men, so known well while they lived, and so taken after their death declared for god's messengers by many a mighty miracle.  
Of these men may I name full many of sundry times, as saint Ignacius● saint Policarpus, saint Cyprian, saint Basile, saint Crysosteme, saint Leo, saint Hylary, saint Jerome, saint Ambrose, & saint austin.  
Now if Tyndale dare say that himself meaneth these/ then say we that none of these called us to Tyndals' faith. For none of them did constrewe the scripture as Tyndale doth. And therefore his faith is not Christ's faith, nor Tyndals' doctrine agreeable and consenting to theirs. For if Tyndale dare say that his doctrine and theirs agree/ let Tyndale then of them all name us now some o●e that ever called religious persons to the breach and contempt of their vows, and said that chastity was an unlawful vow, & would that monks and freres should run out and wed nuns.  
Then sith that of his hundred prophets between Moses and christ, Tyndale leaveth of four score and nineteen, and is content to take no more but saint Iohn, to show that himself doth go from the catholic church & rebuke the doctrine thereof, as saint Iohn did fro the synagogue, & rebuked the doctrine of the lindsays: he must show us as I answered him in my sext book, y● or he prove saint Iohn and himself matches in that point, he must prove that himself was prophesied upon to be the fore goer of some new christ as good as ever was the old. He must also show us his living somewhat more like the living of saint Iohn then it appeareth yet.  
Also because he showeth no miracles/ he must prove us that his new christ to whom himself is the fore goer, must do such miracles as our old christ did/ and than bear witness of Tyndale his holy baptist, as our christ bare witness of the t'other. And all this in his life beside miracles many showed for him when he is deed.  
Finally if he will say as he meaneth here, and plainly saith in his other solution to the first reason, that he and his fellows do now rebuke the doctrine of the catholic church, in like manner as saint Iohn the baptist & christ did rebuke the doctrine of the scribes and pharisees: he must prove us that of those scribes and pharisees which taught the doctrine that saint Iohn baptist and our saviour rebuked, were holy men and saints. For else sayeth Tyndale no thing to the purpose/ for ●s much as himself can not say nay, but that many of those that have taught the things that Tindal● and Luther now rebuke were holy doctors and saints of every age sins Crystes days to their own.  
And thus ye see good readers, that where Tyndale biddeth us look upon the old ensamples, and then piketh out specially saint Iohn baptist to resemble himself & his preaching to, and his demeanour against the catholic church, unto saint Iohn and his demeanour toward the synagogue/ is as unlike as are white and black.  
Now shall ye well perceive, that the persons of saint Iohn baptist and of sir wyllyam Tyndale, be not much more unlike, no nor so far unlike neither not by a great deal, as are the things that saint Iohn reproved in the doctrine of the scribes & pharisees, and the things which Tyndale reproveth in the doctrine of the catholic church.  
How be it Tyndale to make them seem like, dyssymuling the greatest things & of most weight, piketh out a few things wherein he would make the matter seem somewhat like/ & yet findeth he none very like. And over that where they seem like, he maketh them seem like with dying.  
For first he beginneth as ye have herd with the false gloze of the pharisees, by which many of them falsely construing gods commandment of honouring their father and mother, miss taught the people, that what need so ever their father and mother had, yet if they offered unto god, they did better than if they holp their father & their mother therewith. And when he hath told this of the pharisees/ then resembleth he the doctrine of the church there to, and saith, As ours now affirm that it is more merytory●use to ●f●re to god and his holy saints deed, then unto the poor living saints.  
Lo good reder here knoweth Tyndale well enough that he lieth to make the two thing seem like/ and yet he maketh them not like. For well ye wot, there is no little difference between the thing that Tyndale saith here, the church teacheth to be more meritorious to offer to god then to give to a poor man/ and the thing that he saith the pharisees taught, that it was more meritorious to offer unto god, then help his father with the money, were he in never so great need. For I am not like bound to help every stranger that is a porem, tanhat is say in some poverty/ as to help mine own father that were in extreme necessity. And yet as unlike as they be, these two things doth Tyndale here liken together. Might he not here liken almost as well Paul's steeple to a dagger sheath?  
And yet in this lykening as unlike as they be, he letteth not a little to lie, to link them so near together.  
For I wysse Tyndale know●th very well, that no man teacheth so precisely as he rehearseth/ that it is better to offer to god and his holy saints deed, then unto the poor living saints. But the doctrine of the church is as himself can tell full well if he listed not to lie, that which of those two things offering or giving in almose is for the time more meritorious, dependeth upon the circumstances of the deed, & the persons at the tyme. For it were not alway true to say, that I must help my father before a stranger, nor myself before another man. For my father may percase have some need and myself both/ and yet not so much, but that I were bounden for the time to give fro myself, & yet not to my father, but for the time to some stranger whom I never knew before/ his necessity may be such.  
And therefore the catholic church teacheth, that both to give almose is good, and to offer is good/ and he that hath wherewith to do both, aught to do the tone, and doth well to do the t'other. But where the tone is better and where the t'other/ is to be considered by him that doth it, upon the time and persons, and many other circumstance more than well can be comprehended and given men in writing, under any such certain rules, but that some time they may fail. But reason ruled by charity and devotion, shall not need to fere but they shall do both full well, and perceive sufficiently where the tone is to be done and where the t'other, if they follow not these heretyques in contemning the tone.  

1. Corinth. 7.  The church saith as saint Poule saith, that virginity is better than the work of wedlock. yet meaneth neither the church nor saint Poule that it so were, if there were but one man with one woman left a live in all the whole world.  

Matth. 26  Saint Mary magdalen was more allowed of christ fo● bestowing that costly ointment upon his head, so fully and so freely that she broke the glass, and all to show that she would none spare for herself/ then if she had sold it as judas would have had it, and given the money to poor men.  
And yet did she it but to do him pleasure with, as men did then unto gests to make them cheer with all/ as folk do now cast damask water and burn pleasant perfumes. All be it unware to herself se did in deed work a mystery therein, that did betoken his burying. But god as I say the thank that he gave her, he gave her not for the mystery whereupon she thought not/ but for her devout mind that she bare toward him. And yet peradventure neither she would nor god would she should, have bestowed it so in case it had happened that there had lain a man so like, that wtyhout that ointment he should have/ died & that she had well wist or thought, that she might by that ointment save his life and by nothypge else.  
But all be it there were poor men very many whom she might have refreshed, & well wist there were so: yet sith she neither knew their need for so great that required so sudden help, nor other men's devotion for so small, but that they might be helped by other folk/ she neither thought herself bound nor no more she was in deed, to follow the counsel of judas in giving the price to poor men, rather than in witness and testimony of her good will and devotion, te spend it out in pleasure upon the blessed body of christ. And yet was he not ravished with the odour of her ointment, but with the delight of her devotion/ in which he delighteth yet when any man doth the like.  
And therefore I say, that though the pharisees taught wrong, whom saint Iohn reproved and our saviour him sell also, in that they taught that it was better to offer the money to god, than honour and help their father and mother therewith were their need never so great: yet the church teacheth right. For it teacheth plain the contrary thereof/ and sayeth that the pharisees taught false/ and teacheth only that to offer to god and his saints is well done, and that to help poor men and give almose must needs be done. And when and in what case the tone is more meritorious than the t'other, the church teached many good and reasonable rules/ and yet can no man well tell so many, but that as I said some time the reason of the man ruled with charity and devotion that cometh and worketh with grace must be his guide therein.  
But now these new men begin to give a certain rule, that as they say shall put us quite out of all doubt, when we shall do the tone and when the t'other. For therein lo thus they say. Offering say they, to god or to saints, and like wise byelding of churches, buying of copes, books, surplyce, and chalice, be things voluntary, to the doing whereof no commandment of god constraineth the. But as for giving of almose is a thing necessary, whereunto god by his own bidding bindeth the. And therefore first evermore give thy money to the poor men that need it as long as there be any, And then lo when there be no more poor men left that ye may bestow your money upon/ go to then good Christians in god's name and bestow the remanant whereon ye will, even upon pilgrimages if ye list, lo and upon offerings, and byelding of churches, and buying of books, and copes, and crosses, and ships, and sensers hardly to for me. And therefore say not now that we say that the voluntary things be not lawful. For we say no more, but the the necessary things must needs be done first/ and I wysse good Christians ye wot well your sel●e that is very good reason.  
Now to th'end that ye may good readers the better perceive while they teach in this manner, what their very mind is in the matter/ ye shall understand that it happened myself to be upon a time present in a certain assemble of personages, both of great honour and also of great cunning/ in which among other things that were there treated of, one that had in sundry places preached after such manner fashion as I have here rehearsed you, was demanded and asked whither it were enough before a man bestow his money upon such kinds of voluntary, to help first such poor needy folk as he happened to here of unsought or else that he must besides that before he bestow any money other wise, seek and search about whether he may find any more. whereunto he answered well and plainly, that we be first bounden to seek & search & be sure thereof/ namely because of such as can not come forth but lie still bedrid at home/ & some that be peradventure a shamed to offer themself and beg,  
Then was he demanded farther, sith it was not enough to give poor men when they asked, nor where we found them by hap/ but we were further bound before we bystowed aught upon voluntary, to seek and search out such necessary: whither it sufficed then to take for our part those needy folk that were found in our own parish, or else that we must extend our almose farther to the whole town. whereunto he answered, that neither sufficed our parish nor our town, no nor all our own whole country neither/ but where so ever there where any poor needy men, we were bounden to help them all, before we should any thing bestow upon such kinds of voluntary/ so that finally the man was fully minded, rather to send us all to Rome to seek & search out some poor man and bear him a penny thither, then to suffer us spend a halfpenny either out or at home, upon any offering either to god/ or saint or byelding of church or garnishing thereof, or buying of any ornament therefore.  
And surely if these folk say well/ then Marry mawdelayne did not well, but was much to blame. 
Matth. 26  For I am very sure, and our saviour himself shall bear me record, that if she would have sought and searched, she mought have founden in Jerusalem even at her hand, poor needy men enough to have received twice as much money as all that ointment was worth.  
christ blamed not those that offered into the treasury of the temple, 
Ma●●●. 12.  nor said that they offered to much/ but rather by praising of the poor widow that offered somewhat of her poverty, rebuked the rich folk for offering to ●ytle/ all be it that as the gospel saith, many offered much. And yet as I said of this am I very sure, that they might have had poremen enough to bestow that money upon in relief necessary, that they there spent upon the temple, a thing as these men call it, voluntary.  
How be it I marvel why they should call it all voluntary, for some of it be things that must needs be done. For churches at the lest wise must we needs have/ and yet thereto say some of these folk nay.  
But holy saint Chrysostome calleth upon folk to byeld churches there as it seemed necessary/ and that so farforth, that rather than to leave that work undone, he would they should give the less to poor folk to do the t'other withal. And then dare I say that he would have men buy both books and chalices and other ornaments thereto.  
And thus may we soon see, that these new sects of Tyndals' sort be far fro saint Chrysostom's mind. For ye may well perceive by their doctrine, that when they would have all poor men sought out ever and served, and every man's necessity done, before any of the other things that they call voluntary should be by any man begun/ what other preaching is this, but utterly to forbid them, not with plain words, but with worse than plain words, with blasphemous mockerye, knavish derision and scorn.  
And surely that word of Tyndale in which he calleth the saints that are departed deed saints/ all be it that there were none harm therein spoken by a good man's mouth, yet hath it a shrewd signification spoken out of his/ sith Luther and he ween that there were not one of them all in heaven, but that they lie all in a sleep still no man woteth where/ and therefore Tyndale bidded us pray to them when we speak with them/ so that till than, he would we should let them alone.  
And thus good christian readers, for conclusion of this point, ye may clearly see that concerning offerings to god or his saints, or money bestowed about those good wurkes that these folk call all voluntary, the church teacheth right/ as appeareth well by plain and evident scripture. And that the doctrine of the pharisees which christ reproved, the church reproveth also and thereof teacheth the contrary. And so the doctrine of the church and the doctrine of the pharisees in this point, wherein Tindale resembleth them together and lieth to, to make them like/ be no more like together, then is chalk to coals.  
Now is all the remanante of his process as ye have herd, nothing else but railing upon the doctors of the catholic church, for believing that the sacraments be not bare signs and tokens, and because of the belief of purgatory.  
Now am I very glad that ye see so clearly, that those whom this new saint Iohn baptist calleth pharisees, be all those old holy doctors and saints that have been in every age this fifteen hundred year. For all they have believed in the same sacraments that we do, and the same things that this new baptist rebuketh.  
And in likewise of purgatory Tyndale can not say nay. For I have in my third book of his confutation, laid him plain words of divers of the eldest and most holy doctors/ and among other saint Chrysostome, writing that the apostles themself prayed for souls in their masses.  
And now see you plainly that Tyndale calleth them all pharyseys therefore/ and is come as a new saint Iohn baptist, to show us that by name this viii hundred year, but by his declaration this xu hundred year, the pharisees, that is to wit all the holy doctors and saints that have been all this while in christendom from christ himself hitherto/ the truth of whose faith, and the holiness of whose living, our lord hath illustrate and set●e out unto the show with many a thousand miracle/ have made the scripture crooked and rough/ wresting it with false gloss/ making men believe that there were purgatory, and that men should kneel to Crystes cross and kiss it, and worship Crystes holy body in the blessed sacrament, and keep the chastity that they have vowed to god/ till now lo that this new saint Iohn baptist is sent down to prepare the way for Antichry●●e, and make the rough smooth and the crooked straight, and to turn the hearts of the fathers unto the children, with making the world now to be of the same heart and mind, that the old holy fathers have been of in old tyme.  
And how will this holy baptist do all this gear, and thus turn the hearts of the children and the fathers all in to one? surly by teaching the children as well in faith as living, the very clean contrary of all that ever their old holy fathers this xu hundred year have taught them/ & with telling us that all the old fathers were ●yke the false pharisees, and corrupted the scripture as pharisees did with false gloss/ teaching good works and sacraments, and keeping of holy vows and such other sinful superstitions. And therefore doth this holy new baptist to purge and purify the people, bid us now believe that to break the vow of chastity is a good work and well done/ and that all other good wurkes be nought worth/ and baptism as little worth, because the pres●e speaketh to the child in latin a language that the child understandeth not/ as he should full well ye wot well, if the tale were told him in his mother tongue.  
Then teacheth he us that confession is the devils invention, and absolution is but whistling. satisfaction great sin to do any.  
The sacrament of wedlock he sayeth is such, that he could make as good a sacrament of an old net/ saving only when freres wed nuns/ for than is it holy in such holy folk.  
The sacrament of holy order he jesteth upon, with shavyn, and shorn, and oiled, & wagging of the bishops hand/ and saint Paul's hand laid upon Tymothe, but like a man's hand laid on a boy's head and call him good son. The sacrament of extreme unction he calleth but gresing the sick man. The sacrament of confirmation he calleth but smering of the child's face, and buttering of the boy's forehead.  
The holy blessed sacrament of the altar, the very precious body and blood of our saviour himself/ this holy new baptist forbedyth to have any honour done unto it/ but only take it for a memorial of his passion. And then he jesteth thereon himself, & saith that it is no thing else but wine and cake breed, except it be peradventure turned into starch.  
Lo good christian readers here is the doctrine of this now baptist/ not saint Iohn Bapty●te but sir wyllyam Baptyste● this holy wyllyam Tyndale otherwise called Huchyn scolare to frere Huyskyn/ which hath here made you of the synagogue scribes and pharisees, such a goodly painted process as he hath now told you twice/ a served you with a Jack of Paris, an evil pie twice baken, to declare you twice the great fruit and profit that the world may now taken if it wyll● by his holy coming into it, to preach and rebuke the pharisaical doctrine of all the old holy saints, and teach his own godly chrysten heresies such as ye now have herd.  
And now if this gear be good/ then have we surely great cause to thank god. For than can we lack none holy baptystes to preach us. For there is not I ween so poor a village in christendom, in which there is dwelling any one villain knave, but he may be within three days (if he be not all ready) such an other baptist as this is/ and rebuke all that good is with such abomy●able blasphemy as now Tyndale doth, if any christian man's ●a●ys can abide the hearing.  
But yet remember good readers, that in the conclusion of all that tale/ he knitteth it up with a fresh lusty point, and soileth all the reason in this wise.  Tyndale. 
Now make this reason unto Iohn Baptist and unto many prophets that went before him and did as he did, ye and unto grysie himself and his apostles/ and thou shalt ●ynde them all heretics, and the scribes and pharisees good men, y● that reason be good.  More 
This point is lo the old point, which here, and in his solution to the ●yrst reason, he hath put forth four or five times before/ saving that he giveth alway his old point at one end, or other some new aglette. But when all his cost is done thereon/ it is not all worth an aglet of a good blue point. For I have in my sixth book answering his solution to the first reason, showed you many answers that saint Iohn, and christ, and his apostles, and other poor folk to, very far under them, might say for themself against the scribes and pharisees/ which things neither Luther, nor Tindale, nor none of all their sects can say for themself, against the catholic chy●che. And yet more shall I show you of the same sort, when ye have hard what Tyndale can here say for himself. A●ter all which thing hard & well weighed/ ye shall well and clearly perceive, that for Tyndales tale, the reason of saint austin that Tyndale here speaketh of, being made by the jews against saint Iohn and christ and his apostles, shall have no strength at all, neither to prove them evil nor the pharysyes' good. And yet the same reason being by the catholic church made against Tyndale and Luther, and Huyskyn, and Swynglius/ must needs prove the catholic church to be the very church of christ/ and that Luther and Tyndale, and all they, with all those that believe them, be plain undoubted heretyques.  
And therefore let us first see with what evasion Tyndale will avoid this reason, for himself and his own sects. And then what christ can say more for himself and his company, we shall see somewhat after.  
Tyndale lo teacheth his disciples to answer the reason thus.  Tyndale. 
Therefore this wise thou mayst answer. No thanks unto the 〈…〉 that church that the scripture was kept, but unto the mer●y of go●. 〈◊〉 as they had destroyed the right sense o● it for their ●●●re sa●e/●uen 〈…〉 they ha●e destroyed it also had they could, rather t●●n ●he people shol● 〈◊〉 come unto the right understanding of it/ as they 〈◊〉 the tr●we interpreters and preachers of it. And even so no th●●●●es unto our hypocrites that the scripture is kept, but unto the botomles●e mercy of god.  
For as they have destroyed the right sense of it with their seven, an● as they destroy daily the true preachers o● it, and as they ●e●e it from the lay people that they should not see how they 〈◊〉 with it/ even so 〈◊〉 they destroy it also could they bring it about● rather then we should come by the true understanding of y●, were it not that god provided otherwise for us. For they have put the stories that should in many things help us, clean out of the way/ as nigh as they could. They have corrupt the ●egende and lives almost of all saints. They have feigned false ●okes, and put them forth, some in the name of saint Hi●rome, some in the name o● saint austin, in the name of saint Cyprian, saint Dyonyse, and other holy men. which are proved none of theirs/ partly by the style and latin, and partly by authentic stories. And as the jews h●ue set ●p a book of tradicy●●s called Talmud, to destroy the sense of the scripture/ unto which they ge●e faith, and unto the scripture none at all be it never so plain, but say it can not be understand save by the talmud: even so have curs set uppe their Dunce, their Thomas, and a thousand like draff, to stablish theyr● lies th●row f●lsefyeng the scripture/ and say that it can not be understand with out them be it never so plain. And y● a man allege an holy doctor against them, they g●●se him out as they do the scripture, or will not hear, or say the ●hyrche hath otherwise determined.  More. 
Now good christian readers here have you heard one of his answers, which how it maketh any thing to the purpose, surely that see not I For where as the reason of saint austin is, that men may perceive that this known catholic church is the very church, in that that god hath unto this church given his gift of discerning the very scripture of god from the counterfeit, and to receive the tone and reject the t'other/ and that he hath so given that grace unto this church only, that no man can ordinarily be sure which writing is holy scripture and which is not, but by the tradition of this church and credence given thereunto/ for if he took it of a company of heretics, yet evermore those heretics like as they came out of this whole church, and their authors and begyn●ers were once a part thereof, and then of this church received the scripture before they departed out thereof/ so doth evermore the credence whereupon the knowledge of the true scripture dependeth, that credence I say resorteth ever up to this whole catholic church/ unto which without credence had been given, none heretic had known which were the very scripture. For the proof whereof, we yet see that these heretics in so farforth as they believe the church, in so farforth they know which is the scripture/ and in so farforth as they believe not the church, they perceive not which is the scripture, though they have it in their hands and read it. As ye may see by the pistle of saint james/ which pistle Luther and frere Barons let not to reject and set a side for nought. And thus evermore heretics all the scripture that they know, by the catholic church they know. For to this only church as Tyndales own master confesseth, hath god given that gift to discern the true scripture fro the false. And sith that god hath given this great spiritual gift only to the church, which gift is a beginning of spiritual lively doctrine/ it thereby well and clearly appeareth to any man that will not wilfully wink, that this church is the very church, of which god will have men learn.  
Now good christian reder, this being the reason and purpose of holy saint austin/ and having in it self such strength, that Luther could not himself say nay thereto/ not withstanding that the confessing thereof must needs overturn his here●yes: now biddeth Tyndale his disciples, that they shall answer thereto, that the catholic church is not to be thanked for the scripture that we receive thereof, but the bottomless mercy of god/ & here is all this whole answer to the reason/ for all the remanant is nothing else but railing against the church.  
Now what goth this answer to the purpose? who biddeth him give the thank to the church? let him like as he believeth the church that the gospels of the four evangelists be the true gospel of christ, so know thereby and believe that the same church, by which he knoweth that point, and which in that point he believeth, is here in earth the very church of christ/ and than let him give the thank to god, without whose grace working with him, he could not believe the church neither in the tone point nor the t'other/ and for lack of whose grace, which grace he lacketh not but in his own default, he now believeth not the tone point as he doth the t'other, except he lack so much that for his malice he believe neither nother. I pray god give him once the grace to believe both/ and when he so doth, then shall he have the grace therewith to perceive, that he hath for the knowledge of the true scripture from the false, great cause to give thank to both. first & principally to god that gave that gift unto his church, and wrought with him to believe it/ and after to the church, that was a mean and minister in bringing that grace unto him/ and cause also to be glad a great deal in himself, that he resisted not god and his church, but followed and went with them in calling him home again, to the belief of god and his church, from the damnable ways of his malicious errors.  
And now that ye plainly perceive that this answer of his nothing toucheth the purpose/ I would very fain pass over his foolish railing, saving that it seemeth necessary that the folly and lies of such false frantic heretics may be well known, lest some good simple souls may ween them wise and true therewith, and thereupon be deceived and believe them.  
first he raileth upon the doctors of the catholic church, & saith that they have destroyed the right sense of the scripture with their leaven. Now all this ye wot well he meaneth, in that they teach that folk should not trust in only faith without good works of charity and of penance, and that they teach that freres should not wed n●nnys, and that christian men should pray for all christian souls, and yholde have Crystes holy sacraments in reverence, and specially the blessed sacrament of the altar, the precious body an● blood of christ himself, and other such things like.  
This is the leaven for which Tindale doth now damn here the doctoures of the catholic church. But every man well woteth, and himself to though he say nay, that this doctrine is of the leaven wherewith the woman of whom Cr●ste speaketh in the gospel of saint Matthew, did leaven all her whole dough and meal/ that is to say of that leaven with which not only all the old holy doctors, but also the blessed apostles themself, & our saviour christ also himself, leuene●●he breed of their doctrine, which either in wo●des or writing they taught unto the christian floke. All which leaven Tyndale would now take out, and leave us the scripture unsavoury.  
Then raileth he forth on and saith, They destroy daily the tr●● preachers o● it.  
Here let him name which/ and than s●all he name you such as would destroy the leaven that I now rehearsed you, which christ hath himself put in our breed/ such as for the more part would take his own blessed body out of the sacrament, and leave there for our souls nothing but unsavoury breed, or as Tyndale argueth it starch in s●ede of breed. I would he would name them all that have now be burned here in England, by the mean of his own books. As Baynam the jangler, and Hytton the joiner, & Teukesbery the purser, and B●yfeld thapos●ata, a worshipful sort o● preachers. And yet shall Tyndale find none of all these or any other that I have herd of here, but that he either though he held some of Tyndal's, yet he forsook as false, some part of Tyndals' heresies/ or held as true some such thing beside, as Tyndale would I wot well if himself were opposed, affirm to be very fals●. And of this if Tindale dare deny it/ I shall plainly prove both the parts. And therefore let Tyndale of those that h●ue been burned here, chose which he list/ and name of thaym all some one that he will call a true preacher/ and than shall I prove you shortly, that if that preacher be true, Tyndale shall even by that preacher whom himself will name for true, be plainly proved false.  
Then raileth he ferther on and saith, They 〈…〉 ture from the lay people, that they sh●●●e not 〈…〉.  
I have in the book of my dialogue proved all redyn that Tyndale doth in this point falsely belie the clergy/ and that of troth wyclyffe, and Tyndale, and frere Barns & such other have been the only cause for which the scripture hath been of necessity kept out of the lay people's hands/ and that of late, specially by the politic provision and ordinance of our most excellent sovereign the kings noble grace, not without great and urgent causes manifestly rising upon the false malicious means of wyllyam Tyndale/ for which all the lay people of this realm, both the evil folk that take harm by him and the good folk that lose the profit by hymn have grea●● cause to lament, that ever that man was borne.  
Then forth he goeth on ferther in his lies and say They have put the stories that should in many things 〈…〉 way as nigh as th●y could.  
How proveth Tyndale this lie of his to be true ● let him prove his lie true in some one story that the church hath put away/ and than tell us this tale again. For they never put any away, but such as were feigned gospels and fables/ which the church by the spirit of god (whose gift Luther confesseth it to have in that point/ did ever more consyderately reject and avoid/ as it partly appeareth by saint Hierom, concerning the book of the infancy of our saviour. But fain would Tyndale have some such falls & feigned stories remain & taken for scripture, to th'end & intent that as his h●resyes be by the very scripture confuted and reproved, so they might be by some such false scripture maintained again & allowed.  
But than raileth Tyndale ferther yet, and lieth again against the church and saith, They have corrupted the legend and lives all most of all saints.  
who hath corrupted these legends? let him name some one and prove it, or else let him leave of his dying.  
The legends of saints lives were written in divers times, as the saints in diverse tymed lived, and in divers died/ of whose lives the church none other knoweth, but as they find written or heard by good folk that knew them/ saving that the spirit of god by which it knoweth and discerneth as saint austin saith & Luther himself alloweth, which is the very scripture, shall not suffer it as that holy doctor saint Thomas saith, to err and be deceived, in taking for a saint any dampened person, & thereby give to god's enemy the honour dew to his friend. And by this spirit what so ever be written in the legend of any saint, the church discerneth if any thing were at any time in the good man a miss/ & so taketh it as a fault for the time and afterward amended/ as we read of some of Crystes own apostles reported in the very gospel.  
And the church also doth not precisely bind any man to the belief of every thing written in a legend, as though every saints legend were part of the scripture of god.  
But the thing that Tyndale is offended with is this, that the legends of saints testify their holy living & miracles that god showed for them/ whereof we find no legend like that ever was written for any saint, that in obstinate heresies departed & died out of the catholic church.  
Now confesseth Tyndale that all the saints legends be not so corrupted, but he saith almost all. In which word he saith enough for us against himself. For let him leave never so few, & tell us which they be/ and I doubt not then in good faith, but that we shall in that few find things enough to prove his heresies false.  
yet goth he ferther against the church and saith, They have feigned false books and put them forth, some in the name of saint Hier●m, some in the name of saint Augustyne, and in the name of saint Cipryane, saint Deonyse, and other holy men/ which are proved n●ne of theirs, partly by style and latin, ●nd partly by authentic stories.  
Here would he fain good christian readers bring us all in doubt of all the old holy doctors works/ because he were loath by his will, that any were of them all believed.  
But what great harm and loss were there in the matter, though it sometime happened the book of one good holy man to be named the book of an other/ as a book of saint austin to be taken for a book of saint Ambrose? There were in such a matter no very great hurt if it so happened in deed.  
But to the intent that ye shall plainly perceive that this tale of Tyndale wherewith he would fain blind us, shall nothing serve for his purpose/ let him take the books of which himself nothing doubteth, and even by that self same shall he find his opinions proved plain heresies. Or else let Tyndale find us in some of their true books, which he doubteth not to be their own in deed, let him prove I say by them, that all those books be falsely put out in their names/ in which books he findeth if they be true, all holy saints agree against himself that good wurkes are meritorious, & that folks do well to honour saints & their relics, and go in pilgrimages, and to pray for all christian souls, & to honour the blessed sacrament, and that it is abominable for freres to wed nuns, & such other things like. Let Tindale I say find us the contrary of these ●alys taught us in their true books/ or else let him tell us no more of his own tale, but leave of his lies like a fool,  
And first for the mean while, the book in which saint austin maketh this reason that we now talk of for the catholic church/ Tyndale doth himself confess to be the very book of saint austin. And then doth this reason alone plainly & perfitly prove this known catholic church, to be the very church of christ/ & consequently thereby proveth Tindale that teacheth the contrary, to be in the greatest point that any man lightly can fall in, & on which point most heresies do depend, a very plain open heretic.  
Now where he raileth on and saith, that Like wise as the jews had set up a book of their Talmud to destroy the sense of the scripture, so the church hath set up he saith their Dunce, their Thomas, and a thousand like draff, to stablysse their lies thorough falsefyeng the scripture: I can no scyll of the jews Talmud/ but one thing I doubt not of, but that their Talmud in that it gave false expesycyon was a late thing at the coming of christ, if they had then any such book. And I doubt not but that the things that were false therein, varied from the consent of their old expositors, by which the falsehood of it might be spied & controlled and be believed the less.  
But our doctors of these eight hundred years last passed/ all whom this worthy wild goose calleth draff, do consent and agree with the old holy doctors of the other vii hundred year afore. And as well all those old whom he dare not call but holy, as these other thousand whom he calleth draff, draw by one line all the meinie, to drive Tyndale as a drudge of the devil out of Crystes church for an heretic/ or else as I have almost a thousand times desired him, let Tyndale tell us of all those old, which one taught it for lawful a frere to wed a nun.  
Now where the wretch raileth by name upon that holy doctor saint Thomas, a man of that learning that the great excellent wits and the most cunning men that the church of christ hath had sins his days, have esteemed and called him the very flower of theology, and a man of that true perfit faith and christian living thereto, that god hath himself testified his holiness by many a great miracle, and made him honowred here in his church in earth, as he hath exalted him to great glory in heaven: this glorious saint of god with all other like, and those be of troth all the whole many both old and new together, all whom therefore by the whole thousand on an heap (for no fewer he numbereth them) doth this devilish drunken soul abomynably blaspheme, and calleth them liars and falsefyers, of scripture and maketh them no better than draff. But this drowsy drudge hath drunken so deep in the devils dregs, that but if he wake and repent himself the sooner/ he may hap ere awghte long, to fall into the messhing fat, and turn himself in to draff, as the hogs of hell shall feed upon and fill their belies thereof.  
But when the best hath thus blasphemed them all/ then would he wind out with a wile, and make men ween that he meant but the doctors of these last eight hundred years/ which were yet enough to lay such a railing knave eight hundred mile deep in hell.  
But sith he saith a thousand like unto saint Thomas/ he can not so escape, as though he met but saint Bernard, saint Bonaventure, saint Ancelme, and such other holy men of these eight hundred years passed last/ but he must needs take into them, all the old holy saints of the seven hundred years before, as many as in such things as Tyndale findeth fault with exponing the scripture against the mind of Tyndale, like wise as saint Thomas doth. But now to colour his blasphemy/ those would he should seem were none. And therefore ●o thus he saith.  Tyndale. 
And if a man allege any holy doctor against them, they gloze him out as the do the scripture, or will not here, or say the church hath other wise determined.  More. 
Lo good christian reader this false pageant playeth Tyndale in more places than one/ making as though that in the matters of his heresies the new doctors only were against him. And yet calleth he the new, the doctors of eight hundred year old/ and such a new cote I would he gate him, and were out his old the while.  
And then maketh he as though the old of the other seven hundred year before, were upon his part all the whole meinie, and construed the scripture as he doth, and condemn these expositions that the new doctors of eight hundred year old and under have made synnies.  
And he saith that against all holy doctoures when he layeth any one against us, we gloze him out, or will not hear him, or say the church hath otherwise determined. Here must Tyndale understand, that we never bind him to any thing of necessity upon the saying of any one doctor be he old or young/ but either by the comen fast faith of the whole catholic church, grown as it ever doth by the spirit of god, that maketh men of one mind in his church, or by the determination of the church assembled for such causes in the general counsels. 
 And then the comen faith of old times before our days, we presume to be such of likelihood/ as we perceive by the old holy saints books that they were of themself. For other wise then by books can we not know what the people believed a thousand year ago/ but if we might talk with the men themself and ask them.  
Now if Tyndale could lay us for his purpose peradventure, a word of some one holy man/ it were no reason to bid us believe that one before the consent of many, nor against the comen belief of the catholic church secretly grown to consent by the holy spirit of god, nor against the consent of the catholic church dyffyning that point in a general counsel thorough the same spirit.  
Now when we thus do/ Tyndale can not say that we refuse to here that one holy man whom he shall peaduenture allege us for his purpose. For in thus doing, we do here him and follow him. For every one of all the old holy men did ever submit his own mind to the determination of the catholic church, and bode every man do the like.  
And of them all we wot well Tyndale findeth not one, that saith contrary to this. How be it thus much have I showed you, rather to tell us somewhat of the authority of the catholic church above any one holy man, then for any holy man that ever I think Tyndale shallbe able to bring forth for the confirmation of his heresies.  
But now to put this matter out of all doubt and qustey on, & that every man may see whether Tyndale speak here in earnest as he thinketh, or else saith all this but for a shift/ let him now stand well to his tackling, and stykke stiffly thereto. Let us concerning the right construction of scripture or corrupting the true sense thereof, consider some one heresy of his, for which the church calleth him heretic, let us see now.  
we say that it is abominable for a monk or a frere to wed a nun/ Tyndale saith we say wrong, and that a frere to wed a nun is very well done and lawfully. when we forbid it, we lay the scripture for us. Vow ye and pay it. And saint Poule speaking of the widows, which after their chastity vowed unto god would fall then again to marriage, sayeth that they had their damnation because they therein broke their formare faith. Tindale saith we construe the scripture wrong/ and layeth scripture for his part the words of saint Poule. Better it is to wed then to burn. we say he construeth wrong. If we would allege for us th'exposition of saint Thomas, or saint Anselme, or saint Bonaventure, or saint Bernard, or a thousan●e such like to gether, that were alive at any time this eight hundred year/ Tyndale would call it our Talmude, and say they were all but draff.  
But then he saith again that when he will allege any holy doctor for his part against us, we will gloze him out, or else we will not hear him, or else we will say that the church hath other wise determined.  
Lo good readers here are we comen together Tyndale and we to the very point, where you shall see now how courteysly I shall handle him.  
Let him lay forth for his part some one holy doctor, and I will hear him, and I neither will gloze him out nor say the church hath determined otherwise. For I ween the thing was never taken for so doubtful, that ever the church should have needed. But though it have determined it/ yet will I wink there at and dyssy●ule it, and will not say, The church hath other wise determined it.  
And therefore I will allege no such thing. But let Tyndale lay forth any one holy ●an for his part/ and ye shall see what I shall yet more do ●or him. This will I lo do for him. All be it that I have for my part not only all the holy doctors of these ●yght hundred years, all whom Tyndale taketh fo● d●affe/ and all be it that I have also for my part holy saint Gregory, holy saint austin, holy saint Ambrose● and holy saint Hierome, four the special doctoures of Crystes church/ and bysydes them a great main that I could name holy doctoures and saints, some of a thousand year, some of xii. hundred, and some thertene, and some very far above, and the youngest above nine hund●ed at the lest: let Tyndale I say for his part in the matter, lay me forth of all the hole doctors and saints no more but ●uen som● one/ and I shall be content this ones for Tyndales sake to believe that one against all his fellows/ which I w●ll never do for no man's pleasure I promise you but ●●y● only for his.  
But now on the other side, if he can not bring so m●ch as one, as I wot very well he can not/ and we can against him bring so many as himself can ●ell w●ll enough let him then for very shame confess that he belieth the church, when he saith we will believe no holy doctor. And then let him also for very shame confess, that in his own point at the lest both Luther and himself, and all the shameless harlots of their sect, do shamefully miss conster the scripture/ and with some new Talmude of the devils devise and theyres, do corrupt and falsify the very true gospel of god.  
This lo ye see well Tyndale must grant at the last/ which if he be so shameless as to deny it still, then will every man that wit hath, grant & agree it for him. And then must it nedies follow farther, that all their whole doctrine is but plain frantyke heresies/ and that themselves being so shameful shameless unreasonable railing ribalds, be men full unmeet for god to send on his message in so great a matter, namely as to turn the world with ribaldry fro sin.  
To this goodly pass hath Tyndale brought this process, and showed us here two solutions, both one & both such as ye se.  
But now shall ye see him play the man in the third. For thus lo he teacheth his disciples yet a third answer, because he seeth well that the other twain were nought.  Tyndale. 
Now therefore when they ask us how we know that it is the scripture of god/ ask them how Iohn baptist knew, and other prophets which god s●●red uppe in all such times as the scripture was in capty●yte under hypocrites. Did Iohn believe that the scribes, pharisees, and priests, were the true church of god and had his spirit, and could not err? who taught the eagles to spy out their prey? even so the children of god spy out their father/ and Christ's elects spy out their lord, and trace out the paths ●f his fe●e and follow/ ye though he go upon the plain and liquid water, which will receive no step. And yet there they find out his ●ote/hy● elect know him, but the world knoweth him not Iohn. 1. If the world know him not, and thou call the world pride, wrath, envy, covetousness, sloth, gluttony, and lechery, than our spirituality know him not. Christ's sheep hear the voice of christ Iohn. x. where the world of ypoc●ites as they know him not, even so the wolves hear not his voice, but compel the scripture to hear them and to speak what they list. And therefore except the lord of Sabooth had left us seed/ we had been all as Sodom and Gommor said isaias in his first chapter. And even so said Paul in his tyme. And so even say we in our time, that the lord of the h●stes hath saved him seed, and hath gathered him a flock, to who●e he hath given ●ares to hear and eyes to see that the blind leaders of the blind can not see/ and an heart to understand, that the generation of poisoned vipers can neither understand nor know.  More. 
Lo good christian reads, here may ye clearly see what a strength this reason of holy saint austin hath, against which these heretics are fain to find so many shifts and ever the latter the lewder. For in this answer Tyndale is yet ferther fallen in folly, then in any of those two that he made before, as fond as they were both.  
Th'effect of all this answer is, that himself and such other his fellows as take opinions against the known catholic church, need not to recognize and knowledge the known catholic church for the very church/ and that the reason that saint austin made therefore is not sufficient/ that is to say, that saving for this catholic church they should not have known any truth at all, not so much as which were the true gospel and which not/ & therefore should not have believed the gospel save for this catholic church.  
This reason saith Tyndale is nothing worth. For we that are elect saith he and therefore are the very church, do not know by the catholic church which is the very gospel and the true scripture/ no more than did saint Iohn baptist and the other holy prophets afore him, know which was the true scripture of god by the scribes and pharisees and the high priests/ whom they did not knowledge for the true church, nor for those that had the spirit of god and could not err. But his fellows and he sith they be gods elects and therefore the very church, do know he saith which is the gospel and which is the very scripture, by the same means by which saint Iohn baptist and the other holy prophets before him knew the very scripture of god/ that is to wit by the secret inward teaching of the spirit of god/ even in like wise as the eagle without the teaching of any other spyeth perceiveth & knoweth which best or bird is meet for his meat and convenient for his prey, by the secret inward motion and instinct of nature. And therefore by this answer is that reason of saint austin avoided.  
Here is lo good christian reader all this answer & this goodly solution, nothing left out that hath any strength or force toward the purpose● but laid yet more directly for his purpose then Tyndale layeth it himself/ save for leaving out of the railing, whereof we may peradventure somewhat touch by the way.  
But first consider what blunt sotletees & what foolish fallacies he bringeth in this answer. He wol● bring us from the point, with lykening the whole catholic church of christ, that is to wit the whole multitude of all true christian people of which our matter is, unto the scribes and the pharisees, & the high priests/ as though they alone had been the whole church of the jews/ or the high priests of one town, the whole universal synagogue.  
This sotletye of Tyndale is as blunt as a block, and to great for any man to stumble at that hath any eyen in his head.  
Nor I need not for this matter to defend that the whole synagogue could not err in the choice of the scripture, nor that the whole synagogue was until Crystes coming the very church of god neither, nor to admit as Tyndale here maketh it every thing to go like between the whole synagogue of Moses and the catholic church of christ/ between which twain, all be it that the t'other was for that while the very church in deed, there is yet in manner as great difference, as is between the figure and the thing, the shadow and the body/ as by many manner things far different I might well show you/ & among other no small difference between them, in the thing that most properly pertaineth unto the point whereupon specially dependeth the matter that we have in hand, that is to wit the keeping & preserving of the tone or the t'other from all damnable error. In this point I say there is special dyssymylytude between the synagogue and the church/ for the promises that christ hath made unto the church to send his holy spirit in to it to lead it in to all troth, 
Ioh●n. 16  and that it should dwell therein for ever, 
Matth. 28.  and himself be permanent also therein for ever.  
And therefore sith all these infallible means of teaching of the trowth & preservation of the trowth, hath been made unto the church of christ by him that is himself trowth & therefore can not lie/ which promises were never made a like unto the jews: I need not here as I say no more answer Tindale, though in deed I have done & will, than I need in a manner if he would put his ensamples by some other that were a falls church & were deceived, & had false scriptures in deed. For it is enough to me that the church of Crist hath that gift of god by his great promises, that it shall ever be by him & his spirit led into every necessary truth/ of which one of the most necessary is, to know which is the true scripture. And it is enough against Tyndale, that his own master Luther saith that this catholic known church hath that gift. And it is a clear thing to me and all christian men, that none other church hath that gift but the catholic church/ sith every man seeth that the thing is true which saint austin saith, that he had not known which had been the very gospel, & therefore had not believed the gospel, save for the catholic church.  
And as that holy saint saith of himself/ so may every man well say of himself, that by the catholic church he knoweth the scripture/ which no man can reckon himself surely to know by any other folk, than those whom he reckoneth surely to be the very true church and the messenger of god to tell it him. For else may every fool see, that as he doubteth of the messenger, he must n●dys doubt of the message.  
And therefore now let us look on this answer of Tyndale. I learned not saith he of the catholic chiron to know which is the true scripture. Of what man than say we● Of no man saith he but even god himself/ and so saith he do all my fellows that are the elects of god as I am. we learn it now of our lord himself, as did of old our other fellows that are gone before us that were elected of god as we be, that is to say saint Iohn baptist and the other holy prophets before him.  
Here ye see good readers for aughte that ever I can do, Tyndale willbe saint Iohn baptists fellow, and all his companions fellows with the old prophets and with Christ's apostles, and in some places with christ him self also.  
But this will I promise you, that if saint Iohn baptist and the old prophets, each of the other prophets in their time, had had with the jews the same things in question that we have with Luther and Tyndale & these other heretics in our time/ that is to say if the jews had said that they had bysyde the scripture some other tradition delivered them by Moses, & preserved fro mouth to mouth without writing/ or that they had varied together upon the right understanding of the scripture, & then the jews would have said ye know not which is the scripture but in that ye believe us/ & then if ye believe us in y●, we tell you Moses wrote us this, why should you not as well believe us when we tell you Mo●ses told us this If ye think we lie in the tone, ye may think we lie in both, and then do ye know neither nother. And also sith ye believe us that god hath gynen us the true scriptures, and unto no man else so much as the mean to know which it is but only by us/ why should ye not think that ha●●●●uen us the right and true understanding thereof for as far at the lest as shallbe requisite and necessary. If these had been the variances between the jews and saint Iohn baptist, or between the jews and the prophets, as it is between these heretics and us/ and that the jews had then laid thus unto them: if that then saint Iohn and the prophets could have made no better answer to them for theirself, than Tyndale doth to us now for himself/ surely than like as this answer is such that we may well laugh at him, so had it be such as the jews would have laughed at them.  
But neither were these points the questions then between them (though some of this was afterward in debate between christ and the pharisees) and therefore these ensamples of saint Iohn and the prophets be laid here to no purpose.  
And also if it had so been/ saint Iohn and those prophets had other answers to have made than, such as I have showed you in my sixth book.  
And finally if they would have used this answer that Tyndale here maketh, both for them and him ●elfe/ then if the jews had laughed thereat, and said how pro●● you that god hath taught you to know the true scripture without us/ they had not only the known approved virtue of their living, but also miracles to prove them true messengers. And thus had every one of them/ and saint Iohn both in his father before his conception, and then again at his birth, and the old prophecy fulfilled in him, and the witness of christ testified for him, & thereby dyd● all Crystes miracles bear witness with him.  
These things had they for their answer, with which the jews well might and of reason must, have holden themself fully content and satisfied.  
And now in like wise, for as much as I know well the god is at his own liberty, having his power absolute free & unbounden unto any manner of his ordinary course/ and therefore may if it please him by some secret inspiration, teach Tyndale, & Luther, and Huyskyn, & Swynglius, and all the rabble of those elect and special chosen heretics, which writings be the very scriptures of god, without any teaching of the catholic church: therefore if Tyndale or Luther or any of all the remanant make by miracle any due proof that god hath so done in deed, and that he so hath sent him hither for such a new prophet to teach us, he shall have my pliable. For after that proof once made/ let him tell my what he will and I will believe him till antichrist come. For until that time I trust heretyques shall do no miracles.  
But as for yet in the mean season, sith I see none other man say so of himself, as Tyndale saith of himself & his fellows, and holy saint austin saith the contrary of himself: till Tyndale prove it true that he saith of himself, that he knoweth the true scripture not by the church but by special inspiration of god inspired into himself, and some such other special chosen elects, such as no where in this world I ween god could have chosen worse/ Tyndale must of reason give us leave to laugh at his proud invented folly. And I shall find him four sureties very good and sufficient, that at what time hereafter he prove himself a true prophet, I shall upon reasonable warning onlaugh again it all.  
But yet lest men should take him for a fool, if he should set forth such a point so far unlikely, and therefore so far uncredible, without any proof at all/ he proveth it at the lest wise by th'ensample of a very goodly byr● and king of all fowls, the pleasant splayed eagle. Forsyth that such a bird can spy his prey untaught, which he co●●d never do but by the secret instinct of his exceliet nature, to far exceeding all other: it must needs follow perdie that Tyndale and Luther in like wise, and Huyskyn, and Swynglius, and such other excellent heretics, being in god's favour as far above all the catholic church as an eagle the rich rial king of all birds, is above a poor penny chicken/ must needs I say without any learning of any man, be taught to know the true scripture being their prey, to spoil and kill and devour it as they list, even by the special inspiration of god.  
But now ye see well good readers by this reason, that saint austin in respect of these noble eagles that spy this prey without the mean of the church, was but a silly poor chicken. For he confesseth plainly against such high eagle heretics, that himself had not known nor believed the gospel but by the catholic church.  
How be it is no great marvel, sith god is not so familiar with such simple chykyns, as with his gay glorious eagles.  
But o●e thing is there that I can not cease to marvel of/ sith god inspireth Tyndale and such other eagles, and thereby maketh them spy this pray themself: how could it hap that the goodly golden old eagle Martyne Luther himself, in whose goodly golden nest this young eagle bird was hached, sakked that inspiration. For he alloweth saint austins saying/ & denieth not but that himself spied and perceived this prey of the true scripture of god, by being showed it by the catholic church/ But if Tyndale say that Luther therein lieth, and that himself with his feeling faith feel more in Luther's faith concerning his belief of the scripture, than Luther doth him self.  
How be it I wysse when our young eagle Tyndale learned to spy this prey first, he was not yet full fether●d, but scantly comen out of the shell/ nor so high flickered in the aer above all our heads to lerge it of his father the old eagle heretic/ but was content to come down here and walk on the ground among other poor fowls the poor chickens of his mother this known catholic church/ of whom when he hath all said, he learned to know this pray.  
And now taking that for troth (as truth it is in deed though Tyndale list to lie and tell us nay) when he had learned of the church which was the scripture/ this wot I well he reckoned not himself at that time to understand it by special inspiration, For I can prove that he red some commentours and holy doctors, that write expositions upon it. And to what purpose did Tyndale read their books? to believe himself better than them all? If he so meant/ then might he well have spa●ed labour. For he might have believed himself and let them all alone.  
Now if he list to believe himself in things being yet but in question, where he seeth them vary and doubt: yet must he believe them better, in things so plain and clear, that he ●eeth them therein all of one mind agreed.  
Now go me then yet again to ●rere Luther his master and his mistress the nun. wherein he can not say nay but they condemn him all/ and than shall ye see for lack of other shift this fair eagle bird fowl befyle his nest.  
But yet is it a world to hear, what a goodly castle Tyndale byeldeth in the air on high upon his eagles back. For when he hath told us once that the eagle of himself without any teaching, spyeth out his pray/ then goth he forth goodly with an high spiritual process, & saith, ●uen so the children of god spy out their father and mother  
He meaneth of likelihood god for the father. But what church meaneth he for his mother? For he can not spy out the unknown church. And the known catholic church which is the spouse of god in deed, and therefore by all the old holy fathers commonly called the mother of all christian people, he will not know for his mother. And so I see well Tyndale meaneth for his mother, some old mother mawde, some bawdy church of heretics.  
But than goth he ●orth with his flourish on this fashion. And Christ's emeche spy cute their lord, and ●race out the ●athes of hy● feet and follow/ ye though he go upon the plain and lyqui●e water, which will ●eceyue no step. And yet there they ●yn●e out his feet.  
These wo●des walk ●o very goodly by the herers' ear, & they make a man amazed in a manner & somewhat to study and must when he heareth so strange a tale told of such holy elects, so spy●nge out the foot where the soil receiveth no foting and stepping, after the steps of christ in the lyquyde water which can no steps receive, and therefore received the step of ●aynt Peter so deep, that he stepped in above the knees, and had stepped over the hedd● to, elect as he was, had not his master holp him/ but the water doth of truth receive and keep no steps of any man, when the body passeth from it/ but it receiveth shortly the steps of every man, ye and of every woman to, but she get her on a pace, with trip and go quickly and walk wondrous light.  
But now if a man in the reading forget not himself with ●●●ynge, but consider what he readeth and e●amyne it well/ he shall not so much marvel of Tyndales far fet holiness, as he shall wonder in a man weening himself so wise, to see such a foolish forgetefulnesse.  
For where he saith now that all thelects ●●●ch out and follow the very steps of christ even foot for foot, where never a step appeareth: he hath himself showed us in his other chapters afore, that the elects thor●● the ●aute of their frail membres, though never into deadly sin, yet now and then among step into theft and adultery, treason, manslaughter, ●nd perjury, and other such horrible deeds. And these things lo many right honest men teken not in their reason any following of the steps of christ, but if Tyndales elect church have spied out any special gospel. For the catholic church in all the four evangelists, spyeth not that christ stepped any such one step in all the days of his life.  
Some men would here look that I should also lay to Tyndale, the steps of frere Luther into the nunnys bed/ whose steps as their chyese elect other lewd elects follow, very far fro the steps that christ stepped on the mount of Calvary. ●ut let that pass for this once, and here forth sir wyllyam Tyndales sermon.  Tyndale. 
His elect know him, but the world knoweth him not Iohn. 1. If the world know him not, and thou call the world pride, wrath, envy, covetousness, sloth, gluttony, and lechery, than our spirituality know him not.  More. 
Those words of our saviour saving for seeking of occasion of railing, Tyndale bringeth in here to very little purpose. But as he lifteth here to rail upon the clergy of the catholic church, so if it like him now to turn the glass and look again upon himself and the holy spiritual heads of his own sects, Luther, Lambert, Huyskyn, and Swynglius, with all the ●able of heretics under their rule/ he shall find by the same text and his own exposition thereof, that among all them neither clergy nor lay knoweth christ/ but if rebellion be no pride, nor railing upon their betters none envy, nor manslaughter no wrath, nor robbery no covetise, nor slugging a bed no sloth, nor drunkenness no gluttony, nor freres lusking a bed with nuns no lechery. But he liketh so well his railing, that on he runneth therewith and saith.  Tyndale. 
Christ's sheep hear the voice of christ Iohn. x. where the world of hypocrites as they know him not, even so the wolves hear not his voyc●●●ut 〈◊〉 the scripture to hear them and to speak what they list. And therefore except the lord of S●booth had left us seed/ we had been all as sodom and ●ommor said isaias in his fyrs●e chapter. And even so said Paul in his tym●● And so e●en say we in ●ur time, that the lor●e of t●● 〈…〉 seed, and hath gathered him a flock, to whom he hath given 〈…〉 and eyes to see that the blind levers of the blind can not see, and an 〈◊〉 to understand, that the generation of poisoned vipers can neither ●●●●●stande nor know.  More. 
Now good christen readers here hath Tyndale made the prophet Isaiah, and saint Poule, & our saviour himself as his servants and instruments/ abusing their ho●y words against the catholic church of christ/ which words they spoke against Paynims Jews & heretics.  
Now the hypocrites & wolves he calleth the catholics/ and the sheep and lambs those he calleth the heretics/ in this is his meaning very plain and open. But now the seed that god hath left them as he saith, with which the god of hosts hath gathered him/ this flock he meaneth not. But sith ye know the flock that he meaneth, ye may soon perceive the men of whose seed this flock is fed. Now look then upon the seed, with which the flock of the catholic church hath been alway fed from age ●o age/ & in the seed find ye saint Ignat●us● saint Polycar●● saint Deonise, saint Cyprian, saint Chrysostom● saint basyle, saint Gregory Nazanzene, saint Ireneus, saint Euseby, saint Athanase, saint Hyla●y, saint Cyryll● saint Sy●●●, saint Leo, saint Hierom, saint Ambrose, saint austin, saint Gregory the pope, saint Bede, saint Berna●d● saint Thomas, saint Bonaventure, saint Anselme● and ma●y an holy man more of every age sins the apostles days/ which were all left by god for seed in the known catholic church/ which known catholic church they ever knowledged for the very church of christ, & took always for heretics all that departed from it. And all these expouned thapos●●es and evangelists against Luther & Tyndale, as the catholic church doth now. wherein if Tyndale dare say that I say false/ I shall yet once again like a blind harper that harpeth all on one string, fall to my rude refrayte, & sing him mine old song/ wherein I have so often prayed him to tell us then some one of them all that ever accounted it lawful & held it not abominable a frere to wed a nun.  
Now the seed that hath all this while been sent unto this flock, which Tyndale saith that the lord of hosts hath gathered him together/ have been Nicholas heretic, Eutiche heretic, Ebyon heretic, Ualencius heretic, Ennonomius heretic, Arrius heretics Martion heretic, Montanus heretic, Manicheus heretic, helvidius heretic, Macedonius heretic, jovinian heretic, Pelagius heretic, and Cestestinus heretic, & of every age some such a shrewd sort down unto wicliffe heretic, & hus heretic, & Luther heretic, & Lambert here●yke, and Huyskyn heretic, and Tyndale heretic, & Barns heretic, & many such ryffe raff more. Of all which every one contraryeth his fellow in great articles of the faith, and in th'exposition of scripture, as by which every one of them would seem to prove true his false contraryouse error. And therefore as god the king of peace & unity, and very lord of hosts also, sent the other good seed unto his known catholic church, & gathered and kept it together, & together keep it shall spite of all heretics and all the great gates of hell: so is it not doubt but that the sour of dissension and king of rebellion, the prince of pride the great devil himself, hath gathered this flock to him, and sent always now and than such darnel seed and cockle to feed them.  
But way well yet again good reder that rial end of his railing, wherein he saith that the lord of hosts hath to this flock of these heretics given ears to hear that the ipocretyshe wolves can none hear, and eyes to see that the blind leders of the blind can not see, and an heart to understand, that the generation of vipers can neither understand ne know.  
I need not to put you in mind, that by the wolves & ipochrytes and blind leders, he meaneth the doctors and teachers of the catholic church/ and by the blind that are miss led into the dyche, the lay people of the same church/ & by the other flock that have all these goodly gifts of god, the scattered flock of his unknown church of his elects, that believe it lawful for freres to wed nuns/ among whom yet he nameth & men know many well known knaves  
Consider now that our present matter for which he bringeth in all these words, and toward the proof whereof he brought in the words of christ, that Crystes own sheep here his voice, but the world heareth it not/ is no thing else but to show, that Tyndals' church of elects doth not know the scripture by the teaching of the catholic church, but by god himself/ as saint Iohn baptist and the prophets did, and as the eagle knoweth his prey by the secret instinct of nature.  
Consider than how far he goth ferther now then ever he went before. For here in the end he not only concludeth for his heretics, that they here Cristes' voice/ but also for the catholic church the contrary/ that is to say that the catholic church neither can here, see, nor understand, nor know the voice of christ, that is to wit the gospel and scripture of god. And thus he bringeth all his painted process to this point in conclusion/ that like as here before his master Marten and he, would that in the understanding of scripture, no man should stand to the faith & exposition of the hole catholic church/ but sith god as he saith teacheth his elects himself, and who they be no man knoweth of an other/ but by Tyndale thorough the feeling faith every man knoweth himself, & every man as Luther saith believeth for himself, & if he be deceived the peril falleth also upon himself/ every man therefore in construing the scripture trust unto himself: as hitherto they have thus said concerning the understanding, so doth Tyndale now teach them in that that toucheth the knowing which is the scripture, so that hereafter every lewd body should be bold to say that himself is one of Crystes sheep, & therefore understandeth his voice, & can discern his word, & knoweth himself which is the very scripture/ as saint Iohn baptist did and the old prophets & the apostles of christ, and as the eagle knoweth his prey by an only inward motion. And then shall he thus call scripture what book him list, & refuse for scripture what book it please him. And some of them begin all ready giving no credence to no man but if it be some of their own brain, some of such excellent holiness as all the world may perceive for elect and chosen saints, by railing, & ribaldry, rebellion, debate, and strife, by bybbing, & sypping, & sopping, & quafting, and worshipful wedding of nuns.  
And here lo the goodly conclusion of Tyndals' third answer unto saint austins reason.  
But now shall ye see the wiliness.  
For where as all this while he hath dissembled, and would not be acknown that this reason was taken of saint austin, because he would at more liberty lash out his railing against it: saying yet that the thing was so plain & open/ he hath at the last bythought him, and reckoned it best to knowledge and confess it. And now therefore for his fourth answer, hark I require you how properly the wise man soileth it.  Tyndale. 
If they allege saint austin, which saith I had not believed the gospel except the authority of the church had ●euyd me! I answer as they abuse that saying of the holy man, even so they allege all the scripture, and all that they bring for them, even in a false sense. S. Augustyne before he was converted was an heathen man and a philosopher ●ull of worldly ●ysdome, unto whom the preaching of christ is but foolishness, saith Pa●l● 1. Corin. 1. And he disputed with blind reasons of worldly wisdom against the christian. Nevertheless the earnest ly●ynge of the christian according unto their doctrine, and the constant sofering of persecution and adversity for their doctrines sake, moved him and stired him to believe that it was no vain doctrine/ but that it must needs be of god, in that it had such power with it. For it happeneth that they which will not hear the world at the beginning/ are afterward moved by the holy conversation of them that believe. As Peter warneth christian wives that had heathen husbands that would no● hear the truth preached, to live so godly that they might win their heathen husbands with holy conversation And Paul saith, How knowest thou christian wife, whether thou shalt win thine heathen husbanded with holy conversation meant he. For many are won with godly living/ which at the first either will not hear nor can not believe. And that is the authority that. S. Augustyne meant. But if we shall not believe till the living of the spiritualty convert us/ we be like to bide long enough in unbelief.  More. 
Lo good christian readers, here have you Tyndals answer. And now let us first suppose that in this answer he told us true, that saint austin meant as he sayeth here he did, & that he believed the church but for the good living and virtuous conversation that he then saw therein: yet was at the lest wise the church that he meant of, the known catholic church, and not an unknown church of elects. And so is Tyndale shortly quite overthrown therein to.  
Also though Tyndale said here true of saint austins mind, that he believed the church because they were then good men: yet standeth that order still, that he first believed the catholic known church, and first knew and knowledged and believed it, and then of it and by it received and knew and knowledged and byle●ed the scripture to be the very word of god. And so is Tindale still overthrown.  
ye sayeth Tyndale that is true/ but he was brought into the belief of the church that then was, by the good virtuous leaving that then was in it/ as saint Peter counseled the christian wines with christian living and virtuous conversation, to win their uncristen husbands unto christendom. But if we (saith Tyndale) should not believe till the living of the spiritualty convert us, 〈◊〉 be like to abide lo●ge enough ●n unbelief.  
well. Suppose first that Tyndale said true, yet followeth it at the last the saint austin was none of those holy elects, those gay golden eagles, that be taught inwardly without any outward teaching.  
But now would I that Tyndale here rehearsed us what was the living, and which were the virtuous that so flowered in the church, that was in saint austins tyme. first as for persecution that Tyndale speaketh of/ the catholic church had not in his time any greater persecution by heretics in africa, than it had now these late years in Almaigne/ and I ween as many good christen men have constantly su●●red harm, and as much to, in Sa●o●ye, and Suycherlande, and some other parts of Germany, by the Lutheran heretics, and the Huyskyns, & Swynglianes, as there did in his time in Affryque by the Dona●ystes.  
Then as for the other virtues and manners that then were in the church, for which saint austin did as Tyndale saith believe it/ and would not if he now lived and were unconverted, so receive and believe the scripture by the church: now would god that Tyndale had rehearsed those manners and those virtues, that we might thereby perceive whether saint austin if he were now alive, and such as he was before his conversion & would not be converted by the catholic church, were likely to to be converted by the conversation of theirs, by the holy living of Luther, and Lambert, and Huskyn, and such a rabble of wedded monks and freres.  
And yet if he so were/ then must it be ye wot well a known church. For of an unknown church could he not be moved, nor take none authority/ and so were Tyndals' church of his unknown elects clear gone again, for any fortherauns of saint austin's faith.  
And therefore must we then wit of him farther, which of all his churches, which of his false sci●matyke sects, were it that should do this deed and win us in s●ynte austin, that should be such a true doctor of true the church.  
There is good readers a book which saint austin writeth against heretyques of his own time, that dispraised then the living of the christian people of the catholic church, extolling the holy virtuous living of their own sect/ by which we may well see the heretics had yet at that day a right fair visage of very virtuous living, and preached not their heresies with defence of open shameful lechery, as these bestely heretics do now. But saint austin, all be it he could not say nay, but that in the church there were as well bad as good: yet describeth he partly the vicious living and partly the hypocrisy to, that was then among those hcretyques, and besides that the virtuous living that then was among many good folk of the catholic church.  
And what virtues be those? surely even the same that the known catholic church teacheth now, and which virtues in this catholic church many a good man both spiritual and temporal yet unto this day god be thanked very well keep and observe/ how be it the fewer a great many, sith these devilish heresies came up.  
And this dare I well promise Tyndale, let him read over that book when he will, in which saint austin rehearseth the virtues that he praiseth in the church/ & when he hath well and perfitly red it once over, or if he list hardly twice or thrice it can be no loss of his time/ and this I say will I gladly give him with it, let him take mine eye for an apple, if he find it in all the book commended for any great virtue, a frere to wed a nun.  
And therefore sith Tyndale alloweth saint austin and the virtues that then were in the church/ I will bind him to none other, but that that he now praiseth and commendeth himself. Let him no more but believe saint austin/ and than shall he believe the sacraments/ and go to shrift, which he now calleth the devils invention/ and shall take absolution, which he now calleth whistling/ and shall gladly do penance, that he now calleth sin/ and shall believe the known catholic church and knowledge it for the church of christ, and shall take them all for heretics that depart out thereof, and shall believe surely the determination thereof, and take them all for heretics that will hold the contrary/ and than will he shave his crown again, and say matins and mass after the old fashion, and put of his knaves cote and ware an honest man/ and than he will advise frere Luther to lie no more with nuns.  
Hitherto good christian reder have I so reasoned this point of saint austin's words, as though Tyndales answer unto them were true. And then if they so were in deed/ yet what good effect hath Tyndale thereupon ye perceive. For though it so were in deed, yet were Tyndale never the near/ but always would it follow as I have showed you, that the very church must needs be a known church, and neither any church of v●knowen heretics, nor any known church of all these heretics neither/ nor finally none other but only this comen known catholic church.  
But now good reder, for as much as Tyndale saith that the church doth falsely take saint austin and contrary to his mind, even in like manner as he sayeth they do all the scripture, to blind and bygyle the people with: we be very glad he saith so. And as Tyndale hath here himself put these words of saint austin for ensample, how the church useth it sel●e in th'exposition of scripture/ so shall we be very well content ye take it/ and that by this one point ye may perceive and judge, whither the church or Tyndale exponeth here saint austin more truly/ and thereby judge likewise as Tyndale here would have you, both the church and him in the true or the false exponing of all the scripture of god, where either part saith the t'other exponeth wrong.  
Now say we then that where Tyndale sayeth that the cause why saint austin did believe the ch●rch, was because they were then good men/ Tyndale doth but devise that tale upon his own, head to seek some evasion where he might get out. For besides that it appeareth plain by saint Hierome, that there were at that time the same vices in the catholic church that are now, all save wedding of folk that had vowed chastity/ I say that in the place where saint austin writeth those words, ●e speaketh never a word that the virtuous living o●●he church caused him to believe it, nor nothing in that place speaketh of the virtuous living of the church, nor of t●e, persecution/ but in many other places he confesses, that the church than was as we see it now is, a congregation and company of both good and bad.  
And that in this book written against Cresconi●s, he allegeth that holy martyr saint Cyprian, and r●hers●●h his words written in his pistle that he wrote unto Maximus/ by which he showeth that men may not leave the church because of the evil f●●●e that be therein. For in the church there be both good and bad, as there are in the field of god whereof christ speaketh in the gospel both good corn and cockle/ and in a great house as saint Poule saith to Timothe there are not only golden vessels and silver, 
 
 but also trene and earthen.  
These words of holy saint Cyprian doth holy austin rehearse and approve/ whereby men may well perceive, that both saint Cypryane and saint austin to, did take the church for none other than the known catholic church/ and knew that church right well, not for a company of only good men, but of go●d and bad both, and so be they s●yll what ever Tyndale say.  
But yet this one thing did both saint Cyprian & saint austin say, that of all ●hat depart out of this church, there is not one good nor can not be good, until in heart they resort thereto again. And for that cause is it called holy church/ not for that every man is holy that is in it, but for that many such be in it, and none can be holy that will not be in it.  
And to th'intent that ye may the more clearly perceive, that Tyndale here to blind us with, deviseth of his own head this evasion, that saint austin believed not the chy●che in his days but because of their constance in persecution and their holiness of living: who so look upon the place where he writeth those words, that is to witin his book against the pistle of Manicheus theretic, of whose sect saint austin had been once himself/ without any consideration of persecution or holy living, layeth other considerations that made him know and believe the catholic church of his days/ that is to wit the consent of the catholic christian nations/ and that he had the catholic church in authority, first for the miracles that were showed therein/ and that thereupon his faith and credence given thereunto, was nurysshed and fostered with hope increased with charity, and confirmed with antiquity. There held him he said in the giving of faith and credence to the catholic church this thing also, that is to wit that he saw the succession continued in the see of saint Peter, to whom our lord had after his resurrection committed the feeding of his sheep saith saint austin, from saint Peter's days unto his own tyme. And finally even the very name he saith of catholic, that is to say universal, gave toward the getting of his credence the catholic church great anthoryte/ which name of universal the same church alone among so many heresies had so obtained, that where as every sect of heretics would fain be taken for catholics, yet if a stranger should come among them & ask where were any catholic church that he might go to, there were none heretic that durst for shame bring him to any church or any house of theirs.  
These causes ●o ●ayed saint austin, all which causes are in the catholic church still/ these he laid I say for the authority of the catholic church, for which he said he gave so fast firm & undoubted credence to it, that for the authority thereof he believed the gospel at the teaching thereof. And these causes he laid unto the heretykes● as ●●u●es that he thought should of reason move them thereto also.  
And yet to the intent ye shall the more clearly se● how● Tyndale would with his lies blind us/ and what farm credence saint austin gave to the known catholic church without mention of either persecution or virtuous living, as Tyndale would here make us ween: I sh●ll translate and rehearse you here saint austins own ●●●des written in the fifth chapter of his said book against the pistle of Manicheus. In which place saint austin disputeth against the heretics of that sect, and proveth them, that like as he that believeth the catholic church hath good surety of his belief, & is able to show good causes of his belief all though there were no scripture written/ so on the other side, the Manycheys because they believed not the catholic church, and likewise who so ever believeth it not can never prove any thing for their purpose, neither to him that believeth not the scripture, nor yet unto him neither that doth believe the scripture. And therefore saint austin having rehearsed before what things be sufficient to make him believe the catholic church bysyde the scripture/ doth now in this chapter dispute with them, & show them that they & all such heretics as go fro the faith of the catholic church, can never prove their part good, neither to him that refuseth the scripture, nor to him that believeth it. And therein lo thus he saith.  
Let us see therefore what Manicheus teacheth me/ & specially let us consider the self same book that ye call the pistle of the foundation, in which is contained almost all that ye believe. when that same pistle was red unto us at that time wretches that we were, we were wont to vow down and say Amen. Thus beginneth the pistle.  
Manicheus the apostle of jesus Chryst, thorough the providence of god the father/ these be the wholesome words issuing out of the ever flowing fountain of life.  
Now I pray you and it please ye hearken patiently what I shall ask you. I believe not this man to be the apostle of christ. I beseech you be not angry nor begin to chide/ ye know well that I am determined nothing rashly to believe that ye bring forth.  
I ask you therefore who is this Manicheus● ye answer me the apostle of Crist. I believe it not. Now have ye nothing that ye can either say or do. ye promised to teach me and make me to know the truth, & now ye would make me believe the thing that I know not. ye will peradventure read me the gospel, and labour to prove me the person of Manicheus by the words of the gospel. But now if I should find you out some man that yet believed not the gospel, what could ye then say for Manicheus, to him that would say unto you I believe not the gospel. Now as for me, I would not believe the gospel but if the authority of the catholic church moved me thereto. then sith I obeyed them in that they bode me believe the gospel/ why should I not believe them in that they bid me believe not. Manicheus. will ye now that I believe the catholic church or not? Cheese now yourself whither part ye will/ if ye bid me believe the catholic church they be those that bid me that I should not in any wise give any credence unto you. wherefore believing them, I can in no wise believe you.  
Then on the other side, if ye would say to me, believe not the catholic church: then can ye not of reason bind me by the gospel to believe Manicheus, sith I had not believed the gospel itself but for the catholic church.  
Now if ye would then say to me, thou didst well to believe the catholic church in that they commended the gospel, but thou dost not well to believe them in that they dispraise Manicheus: ween ye me so very a fool, that telling me no cause wherefore I should believe what so ever ye bid me, and believe in no wise what ye list forbid me. yet much more reasonably & more cyrcunspectely do now I, in that I dedeparte not from the catholic church which I have once believed, & translate myself to you, but if that ye can first not bid and command me believe, but openly and clearly some what make me know, wherefore good reason would I should believe. wherefore if ye will show me any reason, then let the gospel alone. For if you take you to the gospel/ then will I take me to the church, by whose commandment I believed the gospel/ and then by the commandment of the same church, I must in no wise believe yo●.  
Now if it so were that ye could by possibility find in the gospel somewhat, that could clearly prove Manicheus to be Crystes apostle/ then must it follow thereupon (if I should believe you therefore) that I must then not believe the catholic church 〈◊〉 biddeth me believe not you. And then again if I 〈◊〉 not the church, then can I not believe the gospel, sith I believe the gospel for the church/ & so could nothing serve you that ye should bring of the gospel. And therefore if ye ●rynge no clear thing out of the gospel to prove Manicheus Crystes apostle, I must rather believe the catholic church than you.  
And on the other side, if ye found for Manicheus any manifest thing in the gospel/ then could I neither believe the church nor you/ not the church because they lied to me of you when they told me ye were not to be believed, nor you because ye prove your part but by that scripture, which scripture I believed not but thorough believing them whom I ●ught not to believe, because they prou● themself false in making a lie of you. But god forbid that I should not believe the gospel/ for believing the gospel I can not find how I should believe you. For among all the apostles names that are there found, the name of Manicheus it not found.  
Lo good christian readers here see ye plainly that Tyndale is telling us that saint austin, where he saith he would not believe the gospel itself saving for the authority of the church, did mean therein nothing else, but the good living that then was in the church, and their constance in persecution led him to byleue them in teaching which was the scripture: it well appeareth I say by saint austins own words, that the church truly taketh his words, and Tyndale untruly glos●th them. For neither doth saint austin in this arguing reprove the living of the Manycheise, nor extol and commend the living of the catholic church/ but in such wise maketh his argument, as it both may and must serve for the known catholic church against all kinds of heretics, what so ever the living be of the tone part or the t'other. And this argument is made more strong now by three parts, than it was when he made it. And sith the church shall as christ promised never fail/ the argument of saint austin for some of the causes considered, 
Matthe● 16.  shall every day be strenger for the church then other, as long as the world shall stand.  
For saint austin allegeth there for one of the causes that moved him, the continuance of the church, which than had continued in s●●cessyon about the space of four hundred year. How 〈◊〉 is that stronger now after the continuance in succ●●●●●n the space of xu C. years? And as for miracles with which as saint austin saith they that believe not be first commonly moved to give faith and credence/ the common known catholic church never lacketh, nor no church of heretics never hath.  
And thus I say good readers, ye may perceive by that place in saint austin which I have rehearsed you, and by his other four chapters immedyate before, that the mind and intent of saint austin is plain, that god of his goodness offereth men occasion, and by good and substantial causes helpeth them that are willing first of all to know the true chyrche● of which every true preacher is a member. And then like as god useth miracles & divers other means, by which means his● help & grace maketh the well willing person to perceive & know which is his very church: so doth he after use the same church for a ●eane, by which he maketh a mā●now which is the very scripture/ ye and over that in things necessary for salvation, which is the very sense and the true understanding of the very scriptures ye and when god hath used the knowledge of the church, to make a man know which is the scripture/ then is the same scripture a very sure mean to confirm him the faster and the more surely, in the knowledge & byliefe of the church/ he shall so surely therein see proved the thing that he before perceived and believed, that the catholic church is the ve●y church.  
An this is the true order and the plain intent and meaning of saint austin, as it plainly appeareth as well in his before remembered book, as in the work of his confessions in the order of his own conversion/ and very plainly in a pistle of his against the donatists, which is in his book of pistles cxlviii In which saint austin plainly showeth that the known catholic church is plainly by scripture proved the very church/ and that in all doubts and questions, every man must stand unto that end, which shall be either by the same church determined, or by the general custom of the same church approved.  
saint austin also in his third book against the pistle of Permen●ane saith in plain words, that there is no surety of any unity but if the church be declared and known/ which according to gods promise set upon an hill, 
M●t●●. 1.  can in no wise be hidden/ and therefore must it needs be, that the church is thorough the wo●lde known. And none is nor never was thorough the world known for the church of christ, but only the known catholic chy●che.  
saint austin also in his pistle to Uincentius, which pistle is in order the xlviii, saith in this wise expressely● How can we believe by the scripture of god, that christ is comen into the world and known, if we believe not thereby that the church is also manifest and known? let any man who so will knit and put in against the plain trowth, all the hooks and handles that he can/ let him cast afore our yien what mists of wily falsehood that he list/ and when he hath all done, look how he is accursed, that will tell us that christ neither verily died nor verily rose again/ even likewise accursed shall he be, that will tell us for the very church any other than this comen catholic church of all christian nations.  
Lo good reder Tyndale said he●e before, that we would not believe saint austin nor any of the old holy doctors, as though himself would. And now have ye hard saint austin/ whom if Tyndale will believe, all our question is decided. For he saith as we say, that the comen catholic church is the very church. And if he will not believe him/ then let him leave like as he is to lay his own fault to other folk.  
Good christian readers if my purpose were here to prove you by the consent of the old holy doctors of Christ's church, that the known catholic church is the very church: the number of those authorities would fill an hole book. But my purpose is here only to answer Tyndale and confute his solution, with which he falsely gloseth the words of saint austin, that saith he believed not the scripture it self but for the authority of the church. wherein I have plainly proved you by saint austin's own words, Tyndales words shamefully false, as well in the principal purpose, as in that he layeth falsely to the church that the church doth abuse the saying of saint austin.  
And therefore sith he saith that they miss construe and falsely allege all the scripture, even in like manner wise as they do saint austin/ while ye plainly see that in this point which Tyndale putteth for the sample, the church saith true and himself lieth: good cause have you to believe this lewd fellow in the remanauntlyke.  
But now shall ye see Tyndale devise you such a shift, that contrary to all his shifts afore, he shall clearly confess himself that he both knoweth and believeth the scripture by the catholic church. For now cometh he to his fourth solution, with which he clean destroyeth all the other three that he made us before. Lo thus he saith.  Tyndale. 
And when they ask whether we received the scripture of them/ I answer that they which come after, recey●e the scripture of them that go before. And when they axe whether we believe not that it is god's word by the reason that they tell us so/ I answer that there are two manner o● faiths, an hy●torycall faith and a feeling faith.  More. 
Lo good reder here shall ye see that the thing where about he hath bombled all this while, that is to prove that he knoweth not the scripture by the church, and to prove that he believed it not to be the scripture of god, because the church so told him, perceiving at length that all his answers were week feeble and faint, and that none of them all would stand/ he is driven at the last for very very shame to confess some part of the troth, & yet for shame also to deny another part. For by this distinction of these two faiths, historical faith and feeling fayth● he will in the end tell us that once he knew the scripture by the church in believing the church/ but that was but an historical faith. How be it he well say that now he neither knoweth it nor believeth it by the church, but by the inward inspiration and teaching of god himself.  
And where as his master and he many times mock the doctors of the church, for using of true distinctions in things where they be requisite/ himself hath here devised an evasion by mean of a distinction made by Melancthon/ in which distinction as in a mist he weeneth to walk away. But I trust ye shall see the mist break up so fair, that he shall not escape so. Lo thus goth he forth there with.  Tyndale. 
The historical faith hangeth of the truth and honesty of t●e te●●er, or of the comen fame and consent of many. As if one to●de me that t●e Turk had won a city, and I believed it moved with the honesty o● t●e man. Now if there come another that seemeth more honest, or that hath ●●tter pe●suasyōs that it is not so/ I think immediately that he lied and ● 〈◊〉 faith again. And a feeling faith is, as if a man were there present 〈◊〉 it was won, and there were wounded, and had there lost all that he ●a●, an● were taken prisoner there also. That man should so believe, t●at a●● t●e worlie could not turn him from his faith. even likewise if my mot●er had blown on her finger and told me that the fire would burn me/ I sh●ld have believed her with an historical faith, as we believe the s●ory●s of the world, because I thought she would not have mokked me. And so I should have done/ if she had told me that the fire had been cold and would not have burned. But as soon as I had put my finger in the fire I should have believed/ not by the reason o● her, but with a feeling faith/ so that she could not have persuaded my afterward the contrary. So now with an historical faith I may believe that the scripture is gods by the teaching of them/ and so I should have done though they had told me that Robben hod had been the scripture of god. Which faith is but ●n opinion, and therefore abideth ever fruitless and falleth away, if a more glorious reason be made unto me, or if the preacher live contrary.  
But of a feeling faith it is written Iohn. vi. They shall be all taught of god. That is, god shall write it in their hearts with his holy spirit. And Paul also testifieth Roman. viii. the spirit beareth record unto our spirit, that we be the sons of god. And this faith is none ●pynyon, but a sure feeling/ and therefore ever fruitful. Neither hangeth it of the honesty of the preacher but of the power of god and of the spirit. And therefore if all the preachers of the world would go about to persuade the contrary, it would not prevail/ no more than though they would make me believe the fire were cold/ after that I had put my finger therein.  
Of this ye have an ensample Iohn. iiii. of the Samaritanyshe wife, which left her pitcher and went into the city and said/ come and see a man that hath told all that ever I did/ is he not christ? and many of the Samarytanes believed because of the saying of the woman, how that he had told her all that ever she did/ and went out unto him and desired him to come in/ which faith was but an opinion and no faith that could have lasted or have brought out fruit/ but when they hard heard christ, the spirit wrought and made them feel. whereupon they came unto the woman and said: we believe not now because of thy saying, but because we have hard ourselves and know that he is christ the saviour of the world. For christs preaching was with power and spirit that maketh a man feel and know and work to/ and not as the scribes and pharisees preached, and as cures make a man ready to c●st his gorge to hear them rave and rage's as mad men. And therefore saith the scripture, cursed is he that trusteth in man and maketh welsh his arm/ that is to say, his strength. An● even so cursed is he that hath no nother belief but because men so say. Cursed were he that had no nother why to believe then that I so say. And even so cursed is he that believeth only because the pope so saith/ and so forth thorough out all the men in the world.  More. 
Lo good christian readers, here have I given you his whole tale together, to the end of his whole chapter, which hourly looked on and red over pleasantly with him that liketh it ere ever he look on it for favour of the sect, can not but seem very gay. But who so consider it & advise it well/ he shall find not one piece of truth therein, farther than I have all ready showed you in the end of his first solution/ where I touched in few words scant spending four lynies therein, that the mind of sayn● austin was and is I ween of all good men besides, that when we believe the church either in knowing which is the scripture or in the true sense and right understanding of the scripture, god both preventeth us in giving us the occasion, and worketh with us and we with him into the perfyting of our consent and belief/ as he doth toward the perfayt accomplishment of every thing whereby we walk toward our salvation/ toward which we can no thing do without him, as himself saith, 
johan. 15.  without me nothing can you do/ so that the inward secret cause working with us is himself.  
But ordinarily god useth outward means and instruments, such as every man may somewhat by the same give a reason and cause of his own faith to an other man, and thereby tell him that for the same causes the man to whom he telleth them should of good reason follow and believe a like.  
And in these means like as god useth the bodily senses which we call the five wits, as ways and means toward that understanding which men attain by reason, though there be sometime between the reason and the bodily senses some debate and variance: so doth he use both the service of the bodily senses and of the reason of the soul toward the service of the faith/ adding therewith because it is a thyyge far above the nature of them both, his own supernatural aid and help of his supernal grace to prevent us with occasions and motions of belief, and walking on with us except we leave of ourself to the perfayting of belief in our hearts, and helping us to incline our minds into the credence of those outward causes and motives, which without his help in things ordained of god for the way to hevynwarde, we should not have done/ nor of god's ordinary course we should not have believed without some such outward sensible causes neither, as is preaching and miracles and some such other.  
And therefore as I before showed you, saint austin all be it that without help of god he believed not the catholic church, nor without help of god knew and believed the scripture by the catholic church/ yet he alleged unto those heretics the Manichays, not that inward cause the secret help of god that wrought with his will and his reason, in giving credence to those outward causes for which he saith that he believed the church/ for therein might the Manicheys fain themself his matchies, & say that the were inspired, and that they felt their inspiration in their hearts so feelingly, that thereby they perceived that Manicheus their archeretyke was the very apostle of christ, and that saint austin either had no such feeling or else a false feeling and was beguiled.  
And therefore as I say saint austin laid them not that inward cause, but the outward causes of his believing the church/ which were so good and effectual, that the heretics neither could nor never can be able to bring the like for themself. And then layeth he the same church by those outward reasons so proved true, for the outward open cause of the knowledge and belief of the very scripture/ and than doth the scripture being by that outward cause, that is to wit by the church well perceived and known for the word of god, bear witness also & is an other outward cause of the more sure and perfayte knowledge, that the known catholic church is the very true church of christ here in earth, & that all other are utterly feigned & false, both by the manifold texts of the scryptute expressly declaring it as saint austin showeth, & also for that very reason showeth that god giving the gift of knowledge which is his true scripture to a church, & unto none but one or by that one, would never give that special ghostly gift and prerogative unto any false church, and than bid the true church go learn the troth of the false.  
Now good christian readers this way went saint austin with such outward causes, as might of reason lead the reader with him. But now cometh Tyndale and saying that he can not avoid the reason of saint austin neither with samples of saint Iohn and the pharisees which he brought in disguised of divers fashions to make one answer seem twain, nor with false glozing of saint austin's words wherein ye see Tyndale proved plain false: he cometh now and confesseth that same outward cause of faith unto the scripture/ granting that himself and every man else knoweth it and believeth it first thorough the catholic church. But than flieth he forth from thee, faith of the church unto his feeling faith, by which he now knoweth & believeth the scripture as he saith, and no longer by the church. And therein he playeth by his feeling faith, as his fellows do by their remembrance. For if any heretic be taken and examined upon his oath of any manner thing which he will not confess for hope that it can not be proved, nor dare well deny it for fere that it willbe proved as whither he said such a thing or saw such a man/ he runneth straight to his remembrance, and saith he said it not or saw him not to his remembrance, though it were in le●se then half an hour afore. For therein he seeth himself safe. For though the whole town saw them together and heard him speak it/ yet which of all them can prove whither he remember it still or have forgot it were it never so late.  
And so playeth Tyndale now, being fain to grant all that he hath denied/ he flieth like red Raynarde the fox for his safeguard into his malepardus of his feeling faith/ in which though he have nothing to prove it, yet the Raynarde trusteth to lie safe, because he thinketh no man can find him out. For who can follow him thither to make any trial what manner faith himself feeleth in his own heart.  
But yet good readers we shall so set about him, and then set in such terriers to him, that we shall I trust either course him abroad or make him evil rest within.  
For let us now resort again unto the gay glorious process of Tyndal's holy distinction. And where as in the beginning thereof he calleth the historical faith a credence given to a story told him by men/ and that such faith and credence hangeth upon the troth and honesty of the teller, or of the comen fame and consent of many/ as if a man tell him that the Turk had won a city, and that therefore if there come an other that seemeth more honest, or that hath better persuasions, than he thinketh immediately that the first man lieth and so he loseth his faith again: If ye consider well good christian readers ye shall find that part of his distinction, that is to wit the tone half of all together is such a tale as till he prove it better, shall never serve him here. For all be it that in wordly things this tale be true/ yet in matters of faith, which faith is the first gate whereby we enter our journey the right way toward god/ we can never come at it without the help of god/ nor how probable a tale so ever be told us, never shall we believe it without his holy hand inwardly set on us, and leading us therein to/ which is ever ready in all such things, both to prevent us and to go forth with the towardness of our own will not frowardly resisting but appliable unto his motion.  
And this order to be true christ witnesseth, where he saith, 
1 Io●an. 1●.  No man can come to me but if my father draw him. And saint Poule, 
2. Corinth. 3.  saying, we be not sufficient of ourself to think any good thing as of ourself. And therefore god as I said preventeth us in the beginning, & goeth forth with us all the way/ without whom we could do nothing by faith toward god, nor ●y the outward occasion of faith toward the inward consent thereof, sith no man can as saint Poule saith, say our lord jesus but in spirit. 
1● Corinth. 12.  And that god is ever ready, but if we willingly withdraw/ himself showeth where he saith, I stand at the door and knock. 
Ap●●a. ●.   
And that god helpeth us forward not without our own conformable will, appeareth plain by clear texts of scripture I ween more than an hundred. As where he saith, woe be thou Capharnaum/ for if in Tyrus & Sidon had been wrought the miracles that have been wrought in thee, 
Matth. 11.  they would long a go have done penance in ashes and shirts of here. And also where he said unto Jerusalem in this wise: Jerusalem Jerusalem how often would I have gathered thy children together, 
Lucae. 1●.  as the hen gathereth together her chickens/ & thou wouldest not. And where he biddeth saint Thomas of Ind, will not thou be unbyleving but believing. And where he blameth his disciples for not believing those that had seen him risen from death again. 
johan. 26  And therefore is it in my mind false that Tyndale saith, 
Marc●. 16.  that the historical faith, that is to say the faith acquysyte and gotten by giving credence to the report and telling, doth in the things of the christian faith depend upon the troth and honesty of men, or comen fame alone. For all be it that such things be the outward occasions, by mean whereof a man cometh thereto: yet is there ever more in every such faith the inward cause moving our will toward the consent thereof, the spe●yall aid and help of the great goodness of god, without which out will had never walked toward it.  
And likewise as not the man's tale at our ear with out god working within, bringeth us into the belief, (For as saint Au●tayn saith, In vain soundeth at the ear. the word but if god work in the heart) even so not the man's tale alone keepeth the faith in us, but as an outward motion it keepeth as it brought/ but principally keepeth us therein he that principally brought us thereto, that is the inward working of gods own holy spirit. And thus ye see that this piece of Tindales tale is but a bare broken patch  
Now the other part, wherein he sayeth that if there come a more honest man, or one that hath better persuasions to the contrary/ that then he that had the faith upon the first man's telling, loseth it again upon the second man telling the contrary: I say that this patch is double nought. For sith as I said before he came to the faith by two motions/ the principal god working within, and the secondary the occasions outwardly given also by god: like as the good will working with god assented unto it, so shall never any man's tale, n●r the tale of a thousand against one, overmaster that inward motion of god, as long as the will of the man will continue still with god in cleaving to the faith, as it did in following him in the coming to it. And therefore some man that hath upon right small occasion turned to the faith, and therefore with the much more merit as christ said, Blessed be they that have believed and have not seen: could never with any manner occasion be pulled from it again, because of their good will stykking still to the inward cause of their faith.  
For if a man may as in deed he may, so obstinately set his will unto the worse side, that no persuasion of good reason can remove him to the better: how much it is more true, that when a man hath coupled his will with god, by inclining & cleaving unto grace, there can none evil persuasion of counterfeited reason be able to plukk● him from it till the frowardness of his will do willingly fall therefro, as the towardness of his will did willingly cleave thereto/ and as it again may when it is fallen from it, with help of grace willingly return thereto.  
Now if Tyndale call this a feeling faith: yet were his distinction then clean vaynyshed and gone. For than were every historical faith in matters in the faith a feeling faith also. And thereby were then all his solution confounded.  
But this piece is also nought for another thing. For in this patch he supposeth that for the faith of christ there could not be given so good an outward cause, but that some better might be made against it, or at the lest some such as might appear the better. But I say that except obstinacy & forwardness be in the mind of him to whom it shall so seem/ it is else a thing impossible, that ever there shall be laid so great outward things against the faith of christ, as shall be laid for it. But the reasons all ready made, and the things all ready showed for the faith are such, as every reasonable man standing but indyf●erent and void of obstinate forwardness, if the matter were but the troth of a story and not the mean of man's salvation, might well descer●e all that may be made against it to be far the weaker part. And now being this matter the mean of man's salvation, toward the belief whereof god worked/ Tyndales tale is much the flebler. For else give we them a great excuse that lest not to believe the truth.  
But our lord saith unto the preachers of his saith, whom he sent to preach to all the world, that he would give them a ●outh and wisdom therein, that no man should be able to resy●te the reasons with which they should confirm it. In which words our lord meant not, that every man would for all those reasons of prophecies miracles martyrs and many other things besides, consent and agree to believe but/ that all be it of ab●tynacy they would not yet to them that were indifferent, it should well apthat they could never be able suf●ycyently to answer them, but that they might ever by plain outward proves be sustancyally confounded/ and the true believer able always to declare to the false and faithless an outward cause sufficient of his faith and hop●, which the t'other might frowardly say he would not/ but reasonably could he never say why he should not believe and give credence unto. And thus is lo the first part of Tyndales distinction destroyed.  
Now is the second part●, his feeling faith, which is he saith that belief and faith, not that a man hath gotten and conceived in his heart by hearing of other men, but by the plain experience of his own feeling. And with this feeling faith believeth he the battle that hath not herd other men talk thereof & told it him/ but hath himself both been present thereat, and also been wounded therein. Nor no man believeth with the feeling faith that the fire is hot, till he have at the lest wise burned his finger in it. For all is but historical faith before.  
Now good christian readers, by this tale Tyndale telleth us that all the credence which he gave unto the church, in taking the books of the four evangelists for the very gospels of christ, was all together but like Tyndales mothers blowing upon her finger/ and thereby making that pretty babe her son believe that the fire was hot and had burned her/ and that he would have believed her no less, if she had told him the same by a cup of cold water. And that in like wise as he believed the church that the gospels were holy scripture, so should he have believed them if they had told him that a tale of Robben hood had been holy scripture. For sith all was but an historical faith, all must needs have been one.  
Consider by the way good reder the difference between saint Au●tayne and the good man Tyndale, in their credence given unto the church. saint austin believed the church in teaching him why●h was the true scripture, because he perceived well the same church to be so declared by miracles & many other means to be the true church, that thereby he believed that the doctrine thereof could not be false, and that therefore it could not teach a tale of Robbyn hood to be the gospel of Cry●te.  
Now Tyndale as ye see taketh the credence of the whole catholic church the ●●der of every man's cristendome, like his own mother blowing upon her finger, and thereby making the baby believe what she lytte. And therefore in this point wherein saint austin and the good man Tyndale tell you two so diverse tales/ consider well with yourself the wisdom, the learning, the manners, & the virtue, of those too ●●n/ and then of them both look whom ye find best, and by mine advise even him believe best.  
But now doth Tyndale he saith believe the troth, that not a tale of Ro●ben hood but the books of the four evangelists be the t●●w gospel of Chry●te, because our lord ●ath 'em self so taught it him, and so showed it him now, that all that he hath he●●● the●●● vyfore by the teaching of the catholic church, moveth him nothing at all/ for now he hath an inward proof and experience thereof, and fully and sensibly feeleth it, as he feeleth the fire hot by the burning of his finger.  
And as he feeleth it thus in himself/ so he perceiveth it is with all that other elects the members of his true church and that therefore of all them there is none that know the scripture by the catholic church, but by their own sure secret feeling, such as they feel when they burn their fingers.  
This is the tale ye wot well that Tyndale telleth us. But now is it perdie good reason that Tyndale tell us also, by what mean he proveth it/ or else at the lest wise that he tell us some cause reasonable wherefore we should in so strange a matter believe his bare word. For surely though that in any such thing as he will say that he feeleth himself in his own breast, and thereupon take his oath upon his honesty that he feeleth it in deed/ reason requireth for lack of other trial, that we believe his own word/ considering that we may be led to believe him by the long experience of the continual lying that we have ever therefore founden in him, yet that the like feeling is also in all his fellows hearts how feeleth he? And therefore how can he desire that we should therein believe him without proof? namely sith we see that his own high spiritual master, master Martyne Luther himself; for all his high fleshly virtues, layeth not in that matter such feeling for his own faith, but well liketh and much alloweth the historical faith of saint austin/ and plainly confesseth himself that the church that ●aynte austin spoke of, that is to wit the known catholic church, hath that gift given of god, that it shall perfitly discern the words of god from the words of men/ ●nd therefore ●hall never take and teach a tale of Robben hood for the true scripture of god.  
Now therefore as I say, Ty●dale must prove us this feeling faith/ at the lest wise f●● the faith of his fellows/ or else shall he make us feel that for a shift to scape away with, he hath sought sore 〈◊〉 found out for the articles of his heresies, not any tr●● felyng● fayth● but a false fumbling fantasy.  
yet would Tyndale seem to prove his feeling faith by scripture/ and therefore he saith, Of the feeling ●ayth it is written Iohn. vi. They shall be all taught of god. That is, god shall write it in their hearts with his ●oly spirit. And Paul also testifieth Roman. viii. the spirit beareth record unto our spirit, that we be the sons of god. And this faith is none opinion, but a sure feeling/ and therefore ever fruitful. Neither hangeth it of the honesty of the preacher but of the power of god and of the spirit. And therefore if all the preachers of the world would go about to persuade the contrary, it would not prevail/ no more than though they would make me believe that the fire were cold/ after that I ha● put my finger therein.  
Now good christian reads here have ye first heard the words of god, with which Tyndale would make us ween that he proveth us his feeling faith of all his heresies/ & after have ye heard the words of himself declaring the effect of the same, in himself so deep and so surely written in his heart, that all the prechours in the world can not now scrape it out no more, then make him believe that the fire were cold in which he had burned his finger.  
first ye may soon see that the scriptures prove of his purpose not one piece. For well ye wot your question is not, whither god with his inward working write in man's heart the faith which I have at length all ready showed you that he doth, and have also showed you what is meant thereby, that is to wit his working with the towardness of man's will, in leading him in to the consent of belief/ which leading is the teaching whereof Crist speaketh in the words which Tindale here allegeth the words of our saviour, rehearsing the saying of the prophet Esay, 
〈◊〉. 54.  They shallbe all taught of god/ which words by the prophet were spoken of our saviour & the new law that he should bring, and of the great difference between Moses that taught the old, & christ that should come and tech the second. For in the first, though it were received of god, was yet delivered them & taught them by Moses that was but a man/ & they learned but o● their neighbour, that is to wit of man of which every one is neighbour to other by kind. But in the new law the world received & learned of christ, which was not our neighbour only, that is to wit very man. But also the maker of every man's neighbour, & himself also very eternal god, & the same teacher though he taught before & was the same god that before taught by Moses the synagogue of the children of Israel, and gave them by Moses a law written in books either of stone or in deed skins. yet when he would after come to gather his christian church, and teach in his own person/ he would his own mouth give his church a law without book, and shed out his grace so marvelous and so plenteous upon the people that through the miracles & the doctrine, deed stony hearts should wax tender, soft, & quick, and with willing and appliable minds, should by the spirit of god have the law, that is the true belief, good hope, and well working charity, graciously written in them. And thus should it have been, and by the same spirit should it ever have continued in the catholic church, all though never word of the new testament had been written. And yet in the same manner remaineth written in the same church by the same spirit, a right rule left by god, teaching the church to interpret and understand the writing that his holy apostles have written after, & his holy prophets have also written before. And this writing from time to time in the hearts of his church is the writing that christ so often promised unto his church/ that is to wit that he would send the holy ghost to teach it all thing, and to lead it into all troth, & be with it himself all days also even unto the worlds end.  
Now what church this is there needeth no man to doubt, when we doubt not which church it is that hath by god that gift to know by belief which is the true scripture/ which is as me seemeth one great article of the faith.  
That church that hath the gift of that article, upon which by the doctrine of all these heretics themself, the credence of all the other articles depend/ and none other church hath it but by it/ that church I say may soon be perceived, and aught to be believed to be the very church.  
Now what this teaching is, that is meant by our savyoru in the words that Tyndale allegeth, ye ●e. And therefore as I said, now consider that the purpose of Tyndale is not to teach us that god teacheth his elects the faith, but to teach and prove us by the texts that he bringeth forth, that god teacheth not only the true faith but also the feeling faith, of such a manner feeling as himself hath declared, by being wounded in the battle, and burning his finger in the fire/ so that he can never after at any time believe the contrary, no nor never after do any deadly sin. And now ye see perdie clearly, that in those words of Crys●e rehearsing the prophecy, They shall be all taught of god: here is never one word of any such manner feeling/ and therefore doth that text nothing prove for his purpose of his feeling faith.  
Besides this, ye wot well that Tyndale putteth this feeling faith to be the faith of all elects/ and than himself denieth not but that there were elects in every time from Adam unto christ. And this prophecy that he now bringeth in for his purpose, was as himself knoweth, spoken of the church of christ that should be after his own coming. And how can he than for shame say, that it was spoken of the feeling faith of all elects, when they w●re only spoken to declare the manner of excellence bytwen● the new law and the old. But such is Tyndals' juggling to make every thing of every thing.  
Let us now go than to the words of saint Poule in the viii, chapter of his pistle to the romans, where he saith the spirit beareth witness to our spirit, that we be the sons of god.  
These words good christian reader which Tyndale here allegeth for him, not only make nothing for him/ but over that if we consider them well with some wo●des before and after, they make so clear against hymn that a man could not wish for a place more effectual to tur●● over utterly & destroy clearly Tyndals' hole ghostly purpose. For lo good reder saint Poule after that he had in the vii chapter of that pistle, touched the great goodness of god, that had by the death of our saviour christ delivered in the baptism all the world that would be good chr●sten people, from all the guilt & damnation dew for all manner sin/ & left us in such case that all the relics & leavings of original sin, albeit they be motions & inclinations of the flesh toward sin, & thereby called sin, for the lack of that perfection which the body should have, had if Adam had not by sin fallen for himself & all his posterity from the state of original justice/ & shall have when the body shall arise again, & be glorified: yet be they not imputed unto us/ but pardoned & remain as matter of our merit, in case that we resist those inclinations of the fl●sh, & follow the motions of the scripture. After this I say touched in the vii chapter, then pursueth he still upon the same in the eight chapter/ declaring the excellence of grace that god hath powered on upon his people in the new law, far above the grace which he gave yet abundauntely in the old/ but in the new far pa●synge, in that he vouchsaufed himself to come in to the world in his own person, in the very nature of man and similitude of a sinner, and suffering here his painful passion, thereby to damn & destroy the sin that the devil caused Adam to commit against god/ to damn it I say and destroy it, by the sin that the devil caused the jews to commit in putting our saviour unjustly to death.  
And all be it that in the old law, such as were good men received their grace by the faith and belief of our saviour that after should come, and were by virtue thereof made able to resist the relics of original sin and inclinations of the flesh toward actual sins, & thereby were after Crystes passion saved: yet was that aid & help of grace by Crystes own coming, when by the passion of his flesh he dampened the sin in the flesh, so far increased above that it was in the children of Israel before, whose fleshly sacrifices were to feeble of themself to justify, that such as are baptized and receive the spirit of god● may if they will far more easily follow the spirit and resist the fleshly motions, and abide and persever the quick lively membres of Crystes mystical body, then might of oldetyme before Crystes coming, the children of the synagogue.  
And sith our lord hath now done so much for us, as in such abundance by his own coming, to give out his grace unto us, that we may with help thereof ●eynge so plenteous, with much less difficulty much more resist the flesh, and much more follow the spirit, & keep the spirit with us, and for the spirit inhabiting with in us merit much more glory, first in soul, and after in body/ which the father of our saviour that r●yseh his, shall for the same spirit inhabiting in us, raise and resuscytat to bliss: therefore are we doctors sayeth saint Poule, & it is our bounden d●wtye to follow, not the fleche whom we may now by the plenteous grace of god so well and easily resys●e, and whose affections if we follow we shall die/ but the spirit of god, and by that spirit to mortify the deeds and works of the flesh/ which if we d● we shall live. 
 For who so saith saint Poule be led by the spirit of god, they be the sons of god. And then to show us that we should in mortifying the works of the flesh, and following the spirit, not only do it but also do it gladly, not for fere but for love/ sith christian people receive the spirit of filialll love, and are in such wise ascribed for the sons of god, that our saviour hath himself taught us to call god our father/ so that in respect of our state, the jews were but in fere and boundage: therefore saith saint Poule farther unto the crystened, that were among the Romans: ye have not received again the the spirit of bondage in dread, but the spirit by which ye been adopted & chosen into the sons of god, by which spirit also we cry Abba father. Upon which words even by and by followen the words that Tyndale here allegeth for his purpose, 
 For the same spirit beareth witness unto our spirit, that we be the sons of god. And then if we be the sons, then be we heyres● heirs of god, coheir of christ/ how be it that it is to be understanden if we suffer with him that we may be glorified with him.  
Lo good christian readers, here have I somewhat recited unto you the matter by which yourself may perceive to what purpose saint Paul spoke these words that Tyndale here allegeth/ that is to say, the same spirit beareth record unto our spirit, that we be the sons of god. In all which words I wonder what one word or what one syllable either, ye or so much as one letter, Tyndale findeth making toward a proof of his feeling faith. ye perceive here that the meaning of saint Poule is this, that because our lord as he by faith and baptism chooseth and adopteth us into the sons of god, and therefore by his holy spirit giveth us instruction to call god our father/ and by the same spirit if we list to follow, leadeth us forth also in good spiritual works, 
 which are as saint Poule saith to the Galaties, charity, gladness, peace, patience, long suffering, goodness, gentleness, faith, meekness, temperance/ & by the same spirit if we will work with him, causeth us to kill and mortify the works of the flesh, which been as saint Poule sayeth manifest and open/ that is to wit adultery, whorehunting, uncleansed, wantonness, idolatry, witch craft, enmytye, lawing, emulation and strife, wrath, contentions, seditions, heresies, envy, manshlaughterr, drunkenness, banquetings: therefore saith saint Poule that this spirit beareth record unto our spirit, that we be the sons of god/ as though he would say thus, the spirit of god in that it hath taught us to call god our father, and in that it leadeth us into godly works and into the mortyfycatyon of the fleshly works, by which manner of glad following the spirit we dwell in christ and have the spirit dwelling in us: by these things as very good tokens of grace the spirit of god hereth record unto our spirit, that is to wit giveth our spirit the comfort of good hope, as long as we so do, that we be the sons of god. But then on the other side when so ever we wax untoward and list no longer to follow the spirit, but fall unto the flesh and walk in the works thereof, and thereby put the spirit out of his dwelling: th●n cease we to be the sons of god, were we never so dear darlings to him before/ and shall never be his sons again, tell we mend again, & leave the flesh again, and full again to the spirit.  
This is good christian readers the mind of saint Poule as ye may clearly perceive. And therefore may ye well and clearly see, that these words make nothing in this world for the proof of Tyndales purpose concerning his feeling faith/ but being understanden right with the words going before them, they clearly subvert and destroy all his feeling saith, which he feeleth that being once one of the sons of god, he can never fall therefore, nor never sin deadly after. For here as ye see saint Poule giving good warning of death and damnation when they do/ plainly showeth that they may. And thus is there also by saint Poule openly confounded and dampened, all that whole pestilent book, in which wyllyam Tyndale with his false construction corrupteth the first pistle of saint Iohn/ labouring to make men ween that who so were once a good christian man, could never after be nought, though he never so much do nought, because he can not do it saith Tyndale of purpose but of frailty/ and that who so after his christendom do purposely commit any crime, never was good before nor never shall wax good after, nor never 〈◊〉 forgiven but utterly dampened remediless. which false exposition if it were true/ then had saint Poule here write many words untrue, and given many monitions in vain/ and had also done in another place a thing of little effect, in restoring the Corinthyane again unto the church, which had abominable miss used his father's wife. whose restitution whereof should it serve, if after his restitution to the church after his great penauns done, he should for all that when he died go straight unto the devil.  
Now that ye see these two texts of scripture which he bringeth for him, do nothing make for him in deed/ and the later of the twain clearly make against him, being translated after the old latin translation, which he followeth in those words/ and yet much more against him if it were translated after the greek, which in other places he followeth, and in this purposely flitteth fro, to frame the words the more toward his purpose: let us now consider the third place of scripture that he bringeth to us of the woman of samary, whom many men of the city believed, for that she told them that christ had told her all that she had done/ and thereupon they went out unto christ, and desired him to come in.  
But this faith he saith that those men had, was but an opinion and no faith, that could have lasted or have brought out fruit.  
Now ere we go any farther, how proveth Tyndale this piece of his purpose, that this faith in those men was but a bare opinion/ and so faint that it could not have lasted nor have brought out fruit. How proveth Tyndale this? what one word hath he toward the proof? any more than only saith so? And why may not we then say again the contrary? against him that nothing saith, why may we not say that upon the woman's words, our saviour himself standing yet without the city in his manhood was within the city both with her and them in his god head, and wrought with their toward wills in the mennys hearts, the belief that they upon the woman's words conceived/ which was so strong and so fruitful, that forth with they came joyfully forth unto him, and invited him into the city. which doing of theirs I would ween were fruitful and meritorious, when I see well in the gospel that other which would not reecyve his ●yscyples, were threatened of his own mouth that they should at the day of judgement stand in more hard case, than the sinful sodomites and cytezyns of Gommer both.  
ye saith Tyndaler but yet was it but historical faith. For feeling faith could it not be, till they spoke with christ himself. For then the spyryt wrought saith Tyndale, and made them feel. whereupon they came unto the woman and said, we believe not now because of thy saying/ but because we have herd ourselves and know that he is christ the saviour of the world.  
what proveth Tyndale now with all this? any more, then that their faith was augmented and increased after their communication had with our saviour himself? But what is this for his purpose, doth this proof that their faith was before but a bare opinion, and that it neither could have continued nor have brought forth fruit. Because it was after increased and made more fruitfully, was it before no faith at all therefore but a bare fruitless opinion. Must it needs follow that their faith was changed in kind, because it was augmented in degrees. The apostles thought as it seemeth otherwise, when they prayed our lord not to change their faith but to increase it.  
Also in the self same gospel of the Samarytanies, the plain text saith, Many of the Samarytanis believed in him for the words of the woman. But Tyndale saith nay/ and saith it was no belief that they had but only an opinion, where the gospel by plain words sayeth they believed/ & himself showeth nothing why he should say otherwise, but only that their belief was after by the communication had with christ more strong and more fastly confirmed. And yet findeth he no word that none of them could fall from it after.  
And therefore these words of the gospel reprove the tone part of his tale, that their belief was no faith but an opinion/ & no words prove the other part of his tale wherein standeth all together, that is to say that those men of samary had any such feeling faith as Tyndale describe us and telleth us this tale fore/ that is to say, such a feeling faith that could never after fail, like the faith of heat in him that hath burned his finger. For where findeth he in that gospel or any other, that all those men per severed ever after in the faith/ and not only were ever after faithful believers, but also good virtuous livers, and never did deadly sin but were all finally saved.  
This must Tyndale show us if he bring an ensample of his feeling faith that he teacheth us. And yet must he prove us ferther that they feelingly and faithful believed his false heresies also. For else had they not his feeling faith.  
Now if he think he prove us this sufficiently, by the reason that those men were turned and waxen faithful at the preaching of our saviour himself in his own person, which preached saith Tyndale not as the scribes and pharisees did, ●●r as ours do, that make a man ready to cast his g●rge to hear them rave and rag● like mad men/ but he preached with power and spirit, that maketh men f●●e and know and work to. If Tyndale I say look by this to prove that they had such a feeling faith that never could fail, because the preaching of christ was with power and spirit: then goeth he far wrong, & overturneth his principal purpose of all. For well he wo●eth that christ promised and sent the same spirit to his church, 
johan. 16  to teach it & lead it into all truth, 
Matth. 28.  and himself also to dwell therein for ever. And that the known catholic church is it that only hath the same spirit, appeareth clearly by this that only the known catholic church hath in it declared and continued the power. For none other church of christ is there in which the miracles continue.  
And therefore if there were any such feeling faith in any church/ then must it be in this church/ & then were this church the church of tyndal's elects, and then were there withal his whole purpose lost.  
Now if he will not in any wise agree, that any papists may be elects and have the feeling faith, nor any man at their preaching because they do but rave & rage's/ but the men of Samary were elects & must needs have the feeling faith for this only cause, that is to wit because our lord preached to them himself/ so that else they could not at the preaching of any other: then let it like him to remember, that christ preached to many men his own mouth of which there were some that thorough their froward will believed never a whit/ as for ensample the scribes and pharisees. And some believed at the first full well, & afterward yet fell away/ as did almost all the meinie of his disciples when he told them of his body and blood, 
〈◊〉. 6  that should be both meet & drink/ went they not from him than as Tyndale hath done sins for the self same cause because he will none other believe, but that it is only ●ake breed & wine? And had not judas Iscaryoth herd our lord as often preach and as long, as did those men of Samary, ye and believed as well to sometime/ and yet fell after to nought as Tyndale is fallen now.  
Nay saith Tyndale judas never believed. How proveth Tyndale that agayne● 
Matth. 10.  For of all lykelyh●● he did, 
Psalmo● 54.  sith christ took him and made him his apostle and sent him forth to preach/ and further as some good commentors expone these verses, saith of him, him ●elfe: If mine enemy had cursed me I might have sustained & borne it. And also if he that hated me had spoken high words to me, I would peradventure have hid me from him. But thou man of one mind with me my guide and mine acquaintance, that didst eat with me sweet mere, we walked together in the house of god with one agreeable mind. Here saith our saviour of him, not only that he was his acquaintance & famylyare, and that they pleasauntely did eat together/ but also that they were of one mind once, & walked in the house of god with good consent together, had christ been of one mind & consent with judas at any time, if judas had at no time be●e of the right belief? well will Tyndale say, but yet had he but an historical faith & not the feeling faith. Now where is then become the proof of Tyndals' tale, that the men of Samary must needs have the feeling faith, because they spoke with christ, and could not have so for all the woman's words, till they spoke with christ/ if christ spoke with judas much more then with them/ & yet had judas but either historical faith or else no faith at all, or finally his feeling faith failed & fell away/ whereupon it followeth that there faileth & falleth away Tyndals' hole tale withal. For how proveth he now that their belief was a feeling faith, that never could fail nor fall.  
And thus ye see good readers how wisely Tyndale proveth his distinction of historical faith and feeling faith, by the sample of the Samarytanies/ by which he proveth as ye see, neither one thing nor other.  
And finally if we grant him that all was there true that he saith/ that is to wit that the men had the feeling faith because they spoke with christ mouth to mouth, and that except his personal preaching, their faith had been but an opinion faint feeble and fruitless: then were Tyndale yet brought unto the worst point of all. For than must it needs follow thereon, that neither Luther, nor Tyndale, nor Huyskyn, nor Suinglius, can bind us to believe that they have the feeling faith, till they bring us forth good proof that they have spoken, not with other the preach them Crystes words, but as the men of Samary did, even face to face with Crystes own person present.  
Now see ye well good christian readers, that of all his conclusion of historical faith and feeling faith, whereupon finally dependeth all his purpose: to wind away withal and shift himself aside, he proveth us never a piece.  
And yet as though there must needs be such a feeling faith as he describeth/ he proceedeth forth and saith.  Tyndale. 
The scripture saith, cursed is he that trusteth in man and maketh floshe his arm/ that is to say, his strength. And even so cursed is he that hath none neither belief but because men so say. Cursed were he that had no nother why to believe then that I so say. And even so cursed is he that believeth only because the pope so saith/ and so forth thorough out all the men in the world.  More. 
ye see good readers that these words way, to prove that of necessity there must be such a feeling faith as he assigneth. For else maketh Tyndale as though no man could have any other cause of his faith, but the trust that he putteth in the man that telleth him so/ and that saith he is a thing accursed in the scripture. A little afore Tyndale alleged saint austin in believing the gospel for the church/ & now lo he calleth him accursed for putting of men in so much truite. But I suppose the scripture speaketh of these prounde worldly folk, that ween themself safe enough by worldly strength, and able to conquer & win up the world with multitude of men/ of whom the scripture saith that they put trust of victory, some in horse & some in charyotes. These kind of people do make flesh their arm/ & not every man that believeth an other in telling of a tale. For they believe not with their arm perdie/ but as they walk with their hands because they cast them not of. But Tyndale that disdaineth to believe the church, he is by gods own mouth accursed out of the church. For who so (saith ou● savyour) will not here the church take him for a publican and a very paynim. 
Matthe. 18.   
But now good christian readers I have declared you before, that saint austin in believing the scripture because of the authority of the church, and all we that do the like/ do not thereby put our trust in man but in god, that by his inward spyryee and outward miracles, inclineth us to believe his church therein/ and yet by the same scripture also confirmeth the same belief by his great promises therein contained and made unto the same church/ and of which we see daily some performed in the same, and the remanant thereby the more fastly confirmed and believed of the same. And therefore in believing the church, we put not I say our trust in the men whom we believe/ but we put our trust in god, for whom and by whom we believe the men.  
And yet followeth it nothing the rather, that there should be any such feeling faith as Tyndale only talketh of & no piece proveth of. For there may be and in deed is, a farm and fast belief without any other feeling then by leaving only, for as far as concerneth only faith. And the faith of a right good man and a very elect, may be full fast at one time, and at an other full feeble, ye and fall away/ and yet by grace and good will, come to the man again.  
And therefore is all this chapter of his feeling faith, bringing no proof for his purpose, utterly spent about nought. And unto as little purpose he spendeth an other peevish chapter after/ in which because he would yet fain have it seem necessary, that there should be such a feeling faith, he telleth us a long tale that the faith which dependeth upon an other man's mouth is week. And surely saving that in that chapter he brawleth bygly, and scoldeth strongly, & raileth rially, & lieth puissauntly/ ●llys is all his matter beside marvelous feeble and week.  
This chapter he spendeth all upon rybawdouse railing, so shameful and abominable that I ween for very shame and offending of honest men's ears, it were better burn it then rehearse it. How be it le●t some men m●ght hap to say that I miss report him, and would make men ween that he were so bestely as to write such filthy railing lies, as honest ears might not well endure to here: I shall of necessity though I be loath thereto, be fain to rehearse you for a sample some part of his bestely knavery. Lo thus he beginneth his chapter.  Tyndale. 
If I have none other feeling then because a man so saith, then is my faith faithless. For if I have none other feeling that lechery is sin, then that the pope so preacheth, whom I see before my face set up in Rome a stews of twenty or twenty thousand hours, taking of every one tribute yearly/ and his bishops with all other disciples following th'ensample mightily/ and the pope therewith not content, but set up a stews of boys also against nature.  More. 
Fie no ferther here is to much all ready. what honest ear can endure such a bestely process, so full of abominable filthy lies/ whereof theffect and conclusion is, that sith the pope and all the whole clergy be such in every kind of abomination, as this abominable best abomynably belieth them/ the faith were faithless and fruitless by which a man by their preaching believed that any vice were sin.  
But first he forgetteth yet again the point/ & to seek occasion of railing, he turneth the question from the whole catholic church to the clergy alone, and sometime to the pope alone.  
besides this, all be it great sin it is for any vicious person to take upon him th'office of a preacher● and to presume to tell other folk their faults before he mend his own, for as much as much of his audience may take occasion of his evil living to have the troth in contempt: yet may they that rather list to take good then harm, find therein a great occasion the more strongly to confirm them in the truth. For if a lecher dispraise lechery and comende chastity/ or the proud preach against pride & praise humility/ or the covetous wretch rebuke avarice and laud liberality/ the glutton dyscomende gluttony and exhort all men to abstynen●e, and so forth in such other like: though these words s●me unfitting in such men's mouths, yet may he that listeth well to consider therein th● great strength of troth and of virtue, which expresseth his own praise out of the mouth of his enemy, and him that takeh shame thereby, and holdeth a torch light and bright burning in his own hand to let the people the better behold his faults, and the more to wonder on himself in honour of the troth.  
would god yet that Luther the l●chour would ●●ys grow to the same fault, and blame him self, and such other as be freres and wed nuns. I would ween it might do good both to some other and himself to. For thereby should men see the thing to be very nought, when even he that doth it can not but dispraise it/ and himself should at the worst way have but one fault for twain. For now is he both a lecher and an heretic to/ and then should be but the tone/ and yet might thereby grow to farther grace, and after be neither nother. How be it i● the clergy as there be bad/ of so be there also god be thanked good, and men such excellent virtue, that these heretics hearts eue● fre●e for envy to see them. And sith they can in no wise say nay● there to/ they blaspheme all holy living. And therefore he that list to learn of good men when Tyndale ha●h all belied them/ yet in the catholic church he may fy●d them.  
Finally to prove you that Tindale doth in this railing but prove himself a fool: ye wot well that o●● matter is not of the living but of the doctrine. And then can not himself say nay, but that in the points wherein himself and the catholic church vary, we agre/ and he varieth from all the old holy doctors sins th'apostles time to his own/ in whose holy living he neither doth nor can find default. And if he say that himself agreeth with them, and not we: let him yet again find of them all some one, that ever held it lawful for a frere to wed a nun.  
And then as for the doctrine of the catholic church (for of the doctrine is our matter) the troth of that is so great and of such vigour and strength, that those which are in the right faith thereof and abiding therein, do preach and say the troth, and call the sin sin, be the preacher never so sinful himself/ all though his known sin joined unto his preaching, should never so sore turn to his own shame. For never was there with us ●o great a lecher, that ever would preach that lechery w●s no sin. But this is the preaching of frere Luther, frere Huyskyn, frere Lambert, and Swynglius, and of this blessed apostle of these apostatas wyllyam Tyndale. which as they be of all abominable wretches the most shameful/ so are of all abominable beasts the most shameless, avowing the breach of their vows and their lechery with nunnys● meet for men of honesty, and for good and lawful matrimony. which thing from Cristes' death unto their own days, never was there heretic so far fallen in filth, no nor Turk I trow, nor Sarasen, nor jew, nor paynim neither, that ever said such a thing, or durst for very shame, so that all the world thereby may well perceive and see, that of all shameful shameless sects that the devil can devise, these be the bottom of the draff tub and the most poisoned dregs.  
But now doth Tyndale after this to prove that the credence given unto the catholic church, must needs be week & feeble/ bring in the Turks & the jews against us in this manner wise.  Tyndale. 
The Turks being in ●omber five times more than we, knowledge one god, and believe many things of god, moved only by the authority of their elders/ and presume that god will not let so great a multitude err so long tyme. And yet they have erred and been faithless this viii hundred years. And the jews believe this day as much as the carnal sort of them ever believed, moved also by the authority of their elders only/ and think that it is impossible for them to err, being Abr●hams seed, and the children of them to whom the promises of all that we believe were made. And yet they have erred and been faithless this xu hundred years. And we of like blindness believe only by the authority of our elders, and of like pride think that we can not err, being such a multitude. And yet we see how god in the old testament did let the great multitude err, reserving alway a little flo●ke to call the other back again, and to testify unto them the right way.  More. 
Lo good christen readers, in these words Tindale giveth a special goodly doctrine, that if we believe the doctrine of the catholic church of christ: then have we no more surety of our faith then the Turks have of theirs or the Jews of theirs/ considering that the Turks exceed us so far in number and the jews match us in tyme.  
I marvel much that Tyndale addeth not unto them the paynims also, as his master Luther did in the same argument. For the paynims passed both the catholic christian church, and the false jews, and Turks, and saracens, and the false heretyq●es to, as w●ll in time as nomb●●.  
But yet I marvel much more that he hath so little wit as to ween, that the bringing in any of them all were any thing at all to purpose. For well ye wot good christian readers, that as I have touched all ready we have in giving credence unto the catholic church two manner of motions/ one kind of outward causes such as might if the matter were wordly, move man's reason to the full agreement and consent thereof. And that the other motion is in them that before their baptism have use of reason, the goodness of god first preventing them, with the occasions of some outward motion/ and then walking and working with their confirmable wills into the consent of that godly truth, and therewith giving them by baptism that grace to is rewardable with glory, but if some other sin be the let upon their part. And in such as are baptized young, the inward motion is the same goodness of god preventing them, with the habytuall faith infounded in the sacrament of baptism. Upon the seed whereof with the good help of god's grace, there springeth after in the good and well appliable will of man, the fruit of credence and belief which they give unto crystes catholic church, according to his own commandment upon the preaching of the same church/ in the reasons which the same church by gods good ordinances giveth as outward means of credence and inducing to the belief, both of it self and of the scripture & of every part of faith, as I before spoke of and shall hereafter speak more.  
Now as for this inward cause/ we can not bind the heathen by. For though we tell it them/ they will not believe us, or peradventure tell us the same tale of themself, and say that god moveth them.  
But un the other side unto all good christian men this thing must needs make it open, that Tyndale in bringing forth for his part the jews & the Turks, to make us believe that we may be as well deceived in believing the catholic church sith Crystes days hither to, that the books of the new testament be the true scripture of god, as the jews in their Talmud or the Turks in their Alcharon are deceived in the believing of their elders, is a very frantyke blindness.  
For sith among all christian men this is a plain belief, that the church of Criste is governed by the spirit of god in the truth, & that all those other churches are governed be the devil in their falsed: now is to good christian people Tyndals' argument none other then even this. The churches that are governed in falsshed by the devil that leadeth them into falsshed● 
johan. 1●  may be deceived and err/ ergo the church that is governed in truth by the spirit of god that leadeth it into all troth, may be deceived and err in like wise, sith they be not so many as the false Turks be, nor have not continued so long as the false jews have.  
Is not this a substantial reason trow you, first for the inward causes of our faith and theirs/ which causes are between us and them more far unlike, then are their faith and ours.  
And then as for the outward causes of our faith, Tyndale maketh as though we had none other but length of time or number of people, wherein some fase sects pass us. But surely if we were now to talk with either Turk o● jew, as we be to talk with these heretics/ we would have outward causes enough to lay, wherefore the catholic church ought of reason to be believed before any of theirs, and against them all to/ and yet more good causes have we for that point to lay against these heretics then against all the t'other.  
But Tyndale will happily say to me therein, as Luther answered the kings grace, that the Turk would laugh at all our reasons. But this is a wise answer surely, that we should be ashamed of every reason that the Turk would laugh at/ and lay for●● none but such as we be sure the jews and turks wo●● allow. Then must our saviour christ have hold his p●ace/ for the jews allowed not his. But like wise as though all would not, yet many did/ and even so should they now I doubt it not. And like wise as though the reman●ūt would not, yet had they causes enough showed them why they should: so should these now have to.  
But sith Tyndale will in no wise agree, that for the catholic church we could lay any causes unto the jews or Turks, wherefore they should of reason give any credence to it, and upon the credence of it to take the new testament ●●r scripture, as saint austin saith that himself dy●: then if we would any send thither to preach the true ●●●ypture among them, and make them first p●rceyue and believe which books be the very scriptures, sith they would believe of likelihood as one man of the catholic church in that point better the●ne all the whole/ and that point must needs by Tyndales doctrine be known first, as the thing without which nothing can be proved: there is no remedy but send some of tyndal's elects. For the true reasons and effectual, have only ye wot well they.  
But first how shall we know them ●yes well enough perdie. For if they be freres, we know them by wedding of nuns. well send Luther then. How be it that may not be/ for he should be but laughed at there, because he alloweth the reason of saint austin that he knoweth the scripture by the catholic church, because the church hath he saith the knowledge and discerning thereof from all other writing specially given by god.  
well will we do well then, let us send so good a man as no man can doubt of, but that he is an elect/ and who should that be but holy wyllyam Tyndale himself. what reasons will he lay to them. He will say by likelihood, O all you jews and all you Turks to, and all ye Saracenies hedes, hearken here unto me, and give credence unto me, and believe me, that these books be the very scripture of god/ but believe it never the rather though all the known catholic church say so, for they be all as bad as ye be, and each of you as credible as any of them/ and than be you jews of more antiquity than they, and ye Turks and ye Saracenies five ●ymes so many as they/ and therefore why should you believe the catholic church for any thing that they can say unto you. But I shall tell you whom ye shall believe. I say ye shall believe me, and I shall tell you a good cause why. For I have a feeling faith. For what so ever I tell you, god hath himself so written it in mine heart, that I feel it to be true. And therefore this is a plain evident open cause wherefore ye should believe me.  
Lo when Tyndale would tell them this tale they could not ye wot well laugh thereat, for it could not be but the feeling faith of his f●lse heart they must needs feel at their own fingers end●.  
●ath he not wisely handled this objection of the jews & the Turks/ and toward the avoiding of the catholic church, & proving of his feeling faith brought them to a goodly purpose.  
But than cometh he forth in the end of his chapter, and showed us that god ever in the old testament did let the great multitude err reserving, all way a little floke to call them back again, and show them the right way. And so he meaneth that god hath now sent him & his master and those other holy heretics, to teach the catholic church the right way.  
But as I have said before, god hath promised to send his holy spirit into this church, to teach it all troth, & to remain therewith himself also perpetually to guide his church from such falling of his catholic church from the right faith, that he should need to send any such col prophets as these heretics are, to teach his church the faith/ as it appeareth well by the old holy saints of every age sith th'apostles days, with whose doctrine as it is by their books proved, the doctrine of the catholic church against all these heretics agreeth.  
Also when he sent his prophets of old, he was wont always to send honest men on his errand, that proved themself by miracles/ and not such rascayle ribalds as call themself apostles, and prove it but by jesting and railing.  
God's messengers were wont also to teach every man cleanness and honesty, & not as these bestely fellows do teach folk to break their vows, and freres to fly forth and wed nuns.  
More over if the true flock be alway a little flock/ then be not these heretics now the true flock. For they be now grown not only to a great meinie of men, but also a great shrewd sort of flocks, flocking in many countries of christendom full fast, and in many places much harm have done, and much more they go about.  
And therefore sith in some places the heretics be now the greater multitude, and the Catholics the little flock: there are then yet (sith the truth standeth by Tyndales tale in the lytlenesse of the flock) the Catholics becomen the faithful folk, and the heretics the false, without any change of belief on either other side.  
Finally chose few folk that god was wont to reserve or send to techethe world the right way, did agree in their doctrine. For else had the world ye w●te well not wist which of them to follow. But now these heretics be almost as many sects as men, & never one agreeth with other/ so that if the world were to learn the right way of them, that matter were much like, as if a man walking in a wilderness that fain would find the right way toward the town that he intended, should meet with a meinie of lewd mocking knaves/ which when the poor man had prayed them to tell him the way, would get them into a roundel turning them back to back, and then speak all at once, and each of them tell him, this way/ each of them pointing forth with his hand the way that his face standeth.  
Finally that little flock that god reserved to call the great multitude back, and to show the world the right way/ they were ever yet a known company. For if men might not have known them, they never could have heard them nor believed them as folk of the true flock, if no man could have known which were the true flock.  
And then must it thereupon follow, that yet the true church must be a known church and not an unknown sort of elects only/ with such an unknown kind of feeling faith, as no man can feel in his fellow/ nor no man can feel in himself, but he whom all true faithful folk may well and easily feel for a false fumbling heretic, which by that false fumbling faith feeleth that the blessed sacrament of the altar the sacred body of our saviour himself, should have none honour done to it nor be taken for no thing else but either for bare breed or starch.  
But now when he hath so well quit him with the false turks and the jews, against the true catholic church of christ/ he cometh forth with an other chapter/ and therein for the final conclusion of all his matter concerning the knowledge of the very church, and for the final solution of the second argument made for the catholic church, and for the final confyrmacyan of his false feeling faith, he knitteth up all his dispicions with these wise words that follow.  Tyndale. ¶ How this word church hath double interpretation. 
This is therefore a sure conclusion as. Paul saith Rom. 9, that not all they that are of I●aell are I●aelyt●s/ neither because the be Ab●ahams seed are they all A●rahams children/ but they only that follow the ●ayth of Abra●am. Even so now none of them that believe with their mouths moved with the authority of their elders only/ that is, none of them that believe with master Moor's faith, the pope's faith, and the devils faith, which may stinde (as master More confesseth) withal manner abominations, have t●e right faith of christ or are of his church. But they only that repent and f●le that the law is good, and have the law of god written in their h●rtes, and the faith of our saviour jesus even with the spirit of god. There is a carnal I●aell and a spiritual. There is Isaac and Ishmael, jacob ●nd Esau. And Ishmael persecuted Isa●c, and Esau jacob, and the fleshly the spiritual. whereof Paul complained in his time persecuted of his carnal brethren/ as we do in our time, and as the elect ever did ●●d shall do till the wlordes end. what a multy●ude came out of Egypt under Moses, of which the scripture testifieth that they believed moved by the miracles of Moses/ as Simon magus believed by the reason of Philip'S miracles A●●es viii Nevertheless the scripture testyfye●h that vi hundred tho●sande of those believers perished thorough unbelief ●nd lest their carcases in the wilderness, and never entered into the land that was promised them. And even so shall the children of master M●●es faithless faith made by the persu●sysyon of man, leap short of the rest which our saviour jesus is ●●sen unto. And therefore let them embrace this present world as they do, whose children they are though they hate so to b● called. And hereby ye see that it is a plain and an evident conclusion as bright as the son shining, that t●e troth of god's word dependeth not of the truth of the congregation. And therefore when thou art asked, why thou believest that thou shalt be saved thorough Crist, and of such like principles of our faith/ answere● thou ●●●test and fe●●●●e that it is true. And when he asketh how thou knowest that it is tre●/●nswere, because it is written in thine heart. And if he ask who wrote y●/ answer, the spirit of god. And if he ask how thou camest first by y●/t●● him, whether by reading of books or hearing it preached● as by an outward instrument/ but that inwardly thou wa●te taught by the spirit of god. And if he a●●● whether thou byle●este it not because it is written in books, or because ●he creates so preach/ answer no not now/ but only because it is written in thine her●e; and because the spirit of god so preacheth and so testifieth unto thy soul. And say though at the beginning tho● waste moved by reading or preaching as the Samarytanis were by the words of the woman/ yet now thou believest if not therefore any longer, but only because thou hast heard it of the spirit of god and red it written in thine heart.  
And concerning outward teaching/ we allege for us scripture elder than any church that was this xiiii hundred years, and old authentic stories which they had brought asleep where with we confound their lies. Remember ye not how in our own time, of all that taught grammar in England not one understood the latin tongue? how came we then by the latin tongue again? not by them, though we learned certain rules and principles of them, by which we were moved and had an occasion to seek further, but out of the old authors. Even so we seek up old antyquytes, out of which we learn, and not of our church, though we received many principles of our church at the beginning, but more falsehood among then truth.  More. 
Now good christian readers, here have I given you all his whole process together upon an heap, wherewith he endeth all his dispicions concerning the knowledge of the very church. For now after all that ended/ he falleth from dispicions to preaching, from his matter of the title of his book, that is to wit which is the church, unto the two great conclusions that god hath he saith written in the hearts of all his elects, The tone is he saith the faith of christ, by which they know how god is to be honoured, and thereby they feel & perceive well enough within their own hearts, that the sacraments be as Tyndale sayeth but bare signs and memoryales, and none effectual instruments of grace, nor the sacrament of the altar nothing but breed or statche. And the second conclusion is the love of their neighbours as themself, by which they can sufficiently judge sayeth he between good and evil, right and wrong, goodly and ungodly, in all coversacyon, deeds, laws, bergaynies, covenants, ordinances, and decrees of men/ and knoweth the office of every degree, and the dew honour of every person/ so that by this ye may well perceive that who so ever have any less knowledge than this, he is by Tyndales own doctrine none elect.  
But now sith god hath himself written these conclusions so fully in their hearts/ Tyndale needeth not it seemeth to make them so long a sermon. But as though he feared yet for all his words, that god had not so fair written it, but that some of them could not read it/ he goth forth with his collation of a great length, and teacheth them after his fashion what is very worshipping, and then a long process of images, pilgrimage, sacraments, and ceremonies. In all which long sermon he saith at length nothing, but either such as is so commonly known already, that a man may here his wife tell as much to her mayed, or else so foolish that a very nodypoll vydiote myghthe a shamed to say it/ or finally so false and blasphemous, as scantly the devil durst teach it/ saving that in the end he gathereth a little his five wits well about him, and exponeth there the words of the poor Kentyshman which I rehearse in my dialogue concerning sandwich haven destroyed thorough Ten●erden steeple. And there to knit up all his whole sermon with/ he concluded against me that of very troth the byelding of Tenterden steeple and other steeples and churches in the realm, have been in deed the very destruction both of sandwich haven, and Dover haven, and all the other havens of England, and of all the good bysyde that by good policy might in any wise have comen an grown to the realm.  
And thus with this goodly quyppe against me for his cum patre qui lakking no more but an exhortation in the end that men should therefore pull down Tenterden steeple, and so should sandwich haven amend, and pull down all the churches in the realm & so should need no more policy to make a merry world: the good godly man maketh and end of his holy sermon, & gaspeth a little and galpeth, and getteth him down of the pulpit.  
But for as much good readers, as all this long sermon of his goth far from our present purpose, which is as ye wot well only to wit which is the very church/ which one thing founden out answereth and avoideth plain as himself well perceiveth, all his whole heap of heresies/ and for as much also as the points of his sermon do specially pertain to sundry diverse chapters of my dialogue: I shall hereafter in answering of his particular objections, touch in their proper places, the devilish doctrine of this his holy collation. And for this time will I touch only those words that I have rehearsed you and examine a little farther his feeling faith, and upon his own words will I make it open. And on the words of his fellows and his master to, that none can be the very church but only the catholic known/ and therewith will I finish all this present work.  
Let us therefore now consider what great thing this man hath taught us in this chapter. To make us clearly perceive that only electis that can not sin though they sin, be the very church/ and that the catholic known church is not the church: he telleth us here for the final special proof that this word church a●h a double interpretation/ and that there is a carnal Israel and a spiritual Israel/ and that even so is it in the church.  
what a great high secret mystery this man teacheth us here? any other than the self same that I have told him all ready more times than his hand hath fingers that in the church there be both good and bad? And yet is it for all that the very church? as the arch of Noah was the right figure thereof that had therein both clean and unclean, and of the men also not all elects and good/ for of Noah his own sons one ye wot well was so bad, 
Genesis. 9  that his own father accursed him.  
And as the parable of our saviour signifieth his net, that is his church, 
Matth. 13.  catcheth & keepeth both good fish and bad, till it come out of t●e waves of this world unto the bank of the t'other/ where the net shall be taken up and the fish sorted, and the good saved and the bad cast away.  

Matth. 13.  And the field of god shall ●ere both weed and corn, till the harvest come that both be reaped/ and the corn conveyed in to the baron, and the weed cast into the fire.  
ye and many very elect is at some time full nought, and many sometime full good, that yet will wax after nought, and go to the devil at last. And therefore I can wish no better for my purpose, than the very thing that Tyndale here layeth against it. For sith that in the catholic church be both good & bad, and out of the catholic church be none good but all bad/ as none were saved left out of Noah his ship: this one think alone lo even in the beginning brought in by Tyndale himself, is sufficient for all the matter for my part against him, as a thing clearly proving that only the catholic church is the very true, and all his other conterfete and false.  
Now where it pleaseth him to jest and say, Even so now none of them that believe with their mouths moved with the authority of their elders only/ that is, none of them that believe with master Moor's faith, the pope's faith, and the devils faith, which may stand (as master More confesseth) with all manner abominations, have the right faith of Christ or of his church: every man here well seeth how loud he belieth me, and what folly he layeth forth in this little space.  
For first I never said that any man believeth with his mouth/ which though it be the member with which a man is bounden to confess his faith, yet is it not the member with which a man believeth, no more then his h●le. And therefore in this point Tyndale belieth me once.  
More over I said never that men believe moved with the au●horyte of their elders only/ but I say that saving for the credence given to the authority of the known catholic church, Tyndale himself had not known nor yet were sure at this day, which books be the true scripture of god. But I say therewith that like as god hath ordered the bodily wits as ways toward the understanding of reason/ so toward things above reason he hath ordained the bodily wits and reason both, for ways toward the persuasion. But yet sith the end is heavenly and so high above the nature of man, that the nature corrupt, could not without help of god attain and reach thereto: god helpeth forth them therefore that are willing with his supernatural grace, toward the inclination of reason into the assent and obedience of faith/ and that the whole catholic church be it never so sick & sore in other sins beside, is yet led into the troth of belief by the spirit of god. And this is it that I have ever said/ and therefore here Tyndale belieth me twice.  
Now where he saith that the faith which may staude as I confess with all manner of abominations, is not the right faith of christ nor of his church, but is as he saith the pope's faith, and my faith, and the devils to/ and that the right faith is only in them that repent and feel that the law is good, and have the law of god written in their hearts, and the faith of our saviour jesus even with the spirit of god: I say that the very thing that I say of faith alone, that it may stand with all abominable deeds, Tyndal's own feeling faith feeleth and affirmeth the sam●. For Tyndale sayeth that his elects having his feeling faith, may and do by the fruit of sin remaining in them and breaking out at their frail membres, fall in to right horrible deeds/ and that yet their faith standeth still therewith and never faileth at any time, and that because thereof all those horrible deeds be they never so great abominations, he yet no deadly sin.  
That Tyndale thus plainly saith, ye have yourself seen in my fourth book before. And then that it plainly followeth upon his tale, that with his own feeling faith all manner abomination may stand, and hours, & days, and months, and years, abide and dwell together, ye see plainly yourself. And therefore ye see also as plainly, that sith I never said as Tyndale rehearseth me, that men may believe with their mouth, nor never commended faith alone for sufficient as Tyndale here beareth me in hand, making faith alone to be mine/ and in that I said that faith may be not alone only without other virtues, but stand also with all abominable deeds and vice: I said but she same & yet not all the same for faith alone, that Tyndale saith himself for his own feeling faith/ not alone but accompanied as he would have it seem, with hope & charity both. These things being thus, when he liketh himself well, and weeneth he jesteth as properly as a camel danceth, in calling it my faith, and the pope's faith, and the devils faith/ every man I ween that well marketh the matter, will be likely to call his proper scoff but a very cold conceit of my goffe, that he found and tok● up at sotties hough.  
I say to Tyndale yet again, that as farforth as pertaineth only to the nature of faith, that is to wit to the bare belief alone/ that faith that may stand with all manner of abomination is a very right faith and a true. But I say that though it be as it is, both right and true/ yet is it not sufficient to bring a man to heaven, if it not only may but also do, stand with any kind of abominable sin, because it is than lewd Luther's faith and Tindals' faith, that is to say faith not alone, but faith coupled with abominable sin.  
But now that faith alone, that is to say belief alone is very right faith and belief/ is a point which I have all ready proved him much more oft I dare well say then himself hath said mass this month/ and therefore I will not now labour much about it. And to say the troth the thing is so plain & open of itself, that saving for thimportune babbling of these heretics, no man should ever have needed to go about the proof at all.  
For what should I go about to prove the thing that saint Poule proveth for me, which saith of himself that though he had all faith/ yet if he lack charity therewith he were no thing. 
1. Corint●. 1●  what need I now to go any ferther therein, sith saint jamys reasoneth, disputeth, & dyssyneth the matter, concluding that faith may be wethout good wurkes/ but then affirming that when it so is, 
Ia●●●i. 2.  than it is deed/ not deed in the nature of faith, but deed as unto the state of salvation/ as the men of whom our saviour spoke, where he saith, 
Lucae. 9  Let the deed men very their deed men, and follow thou me/ he meant not I suppose that men naturally ded in deed should bear the deed corpse to burying.  
ye saith Tyndale but yet this is not the right faith of christ. I say yes/ for as far as belongeth to the only fayth● that is to say to the only belief of these points & articles that christ will have us bounden to believe. yet saith Tyndale this faith is not sufficient for salvation, but if it have with it both hope and charity. what needeth Tyndale to tell us that tale? who did eue● say nay to thate But yet be faith, hope, and charity, three divers & dystincte virtues. For as saint Poule saith, faith, hope, & charity/ the greater of these is charity. 
1. 〈◊〉. ●●.   
yet saith Tyndale tho●e three be three sisters that never be asunder/ so that who so ever hath any one hath all. That is plain untrue. For if that heresy were true/ then who so ever had faith had all three/ and who so ever had all three had all that ever he needed. But now because of that false heresy, lest he that believeth right in all the articles, should ween that therefore he lacked not charity, & so were safe enough & needed no more: this was the very cause for which both saint Poule and saint jamys, 
1. C●rint●. 1●.  laboured so much to tell us that Tindale lieth, 
Iac●●i. 2.  and that a man may have faith and lack yet both hope and charity.  
ye saith Tyndale but that is but an historical faith, that a man getteth by himself of his only natural power & is not the work of god in his soul/ and therefore the faith is but faint & feeble, and soon gone again/ & is therefore no right faith nor no christian faith. For the right faith is wrought & written always by god himself in the man's heart, and therefore it is never without hope and charity wrought & written within the heart together with the faith/ and is therefore a felyuge ●ayth that never can fail, & there ●n never can cease both to hope well and work well.  
This is of troth the whole sum and effect of Tyndales holy tale, wherein he did somewhat if he would once prove us half. But first I deny that every historical faith, that is to say every historical belief & credence, is so faint & so feeble, that it is so soon gone as Tindale saith it is. For we see proof enough that with many men it standeth still all their life be the thing true or fal●e/ as the false story of Machomet many Turks take for so true, that they will not withstanding many sufficient causes, wherefore of reason they should reckon it for false, they will I say yet of obstinacy stand still therein and abide bond slaves in christian contrees upon the borders of Turkaye, ye and died thereon to rather than believe the contrary.  
I say further that it is not true, that man in the belief of the articles of the christen faith, getteth that belief by himself of his own natural power, without the help of god working with him/ and yet I speak here of bare belief, cheryte not yet joined with it.  
For sith every man that seeketh for the belief, and endeavoureth himself thereto, purposeth thereby to seek the way to salvation: the corrupt nature of man can never begin to enter into that journey, nor walk forth one foot therein, but if he be both first prevented by grace, and have it walk with him still. 
johan. 15.  For our saviour saith, without me can ye nothing do.  
But like wise as a man may by god's help that calleth upon every man, enter in toward the belief, & yet leave again ere he get it/ and believe some one point and yet leave of at an other: so may he go forth with god into all the points of belief, and yet leave of and lack hope. He may olso go forth in belief and hope to, ye and over great hope to/ and yet for the purpose of some fleshly delight which he is not in mind to leave, he may leave of and lack charity.  
For though the devil may beside such things as he verily knoweth, believe some such articles as we do with out any prevention of grace, for as much as in him being perpetually dampened, the belief can be no furtherance toward salvation, and therefore can in him be no matter of the work of grace: yet in man to whom the faith is by god's ordinance provided for a way toward salvation tough the way be two long lanes beside faith, & therefore he may leave if he lystere he come at any of the lanies end, that is to wit hope and charity: yet never can he find the entering into the first lane, that to wit into faith, nor never can he set forth any foot forward in it, but if god work with his will.  
For our savour saith, no man can come to me but if my father draw him. And who so be fallen into a deep pit, and thence drawn out/ is not drawn from the brink but from the bottom. And so like wise god that draweth, draweth even from the beginning and casteth down the cord of his grace to take hold upon, whereupon who so taketh hold and holdeth still/ is by god drawn unto god, and helpeth himself to be drawn. For as saint Poule saith, we help forth with god.  
I say also that after that god hath wrought with man's will, and called him by prevention of grace at the years of discretion, either from judaisme or fro gentylyty/ and finding no let in the man, hath by baptism fully infounded the faith, and with hope and charity put him in state of grace, which is all the writing in the heart that ever I heard of: this man having now not faith alone but hope and charity to, and standing in such state of grace, that if he then so deceased, his soul should forth with fly in to bliss before his body were cold: yet when he doth after that infusion of faith and grace, any theft or adultery, he loseth charity always, & by custom of sin sometime hope to/ and leaveth but bare faith, that is to say belief alone/ and sometime by false doctrine of heretics loseth some of that to. And yet is faith alone good to be kept, ye and the very peyces and fragments of the faith also/ for they be means by which a man may the more easily come to the remanant that he hath lost or lacketh. And they help with gods further help, to keep a man from some sin though they keep him not from all.  
For some man that falleth to theft, sometime remembereth yet his baptism/ and being by the devil enticed to kill the man, maketh a cross upon his breast, & prayeth Crist keep him from it/ & in adultery like wise. And god in that good mind preventeth the man by grace, & worketh with his will in keeping him therefrom, as he gave him good thoughts and offered him his grace if he would have taken hold thereof, to keep him 〈◊〉 the t'other to. And I doubt not but if god left him in the ●one as he l●●te god in the t'other/ the devil that with his 〈◊〉 brought his will to theft and adultery, would ●rynge him to manslaughter also, and make him kill and murder the tone man for his money, the other man for his wife.  
And thus ye see that of Tyndales ryall tale, there is not one word yet proved true, saving where he sayeth that all which come of Abraham's seed, are nor Abraham's children all/ but they only that follow the faith of Abraham. 
Ioha● 8.  For I will grant him this, and a great deal more so. For I say farther, that all be ●ot Abraham's children that have Abraham's faith, but if they, have his charity to, and thereby work his works. For our saviour saith, if ye be the children of Abraham, work ye the works of Abraham. But ye be saith he the children of the devil, and after his desires will ye do.  
well will Tyndale yet say, sith it is so that M. More granteth himself, that though faith alone be a very faith and right and true, for so far as it stretcheth, yet because it stretcheth not far enough to salvation, in that it being but alone lacketh both hope and charity: wherefore doth master More speak so much thereof, being as himself confesseth but insufficient/ and not rather let it pass and exhort every man to my feeling faith, that is both sufficient and also can never fail.  
As for the first point, the blame be theirs that have given the occasion. For men have be fain to speak so much of faith alone, for the sel●e same cause for which saint Poule did speak thereof, 

Corin. 13.  
jaco. 2.   and saint jamys both/ that is to wit because these heretics now followed the false sect of some such as were then in the apostles time, teaching that faith alone was enough for salvation/ as Tyndales master Martyne Luther doth manifestly and plain in his Babilonica, where he sayeth expressly that a christian man can never be dampened if he will believe, nor no sin can damn him but only in●rudelyte, that is to say lakke of belief. For as for all other ●ynnys what so ever they be, faith saith he if it either abide still or come again, suppeth them all up in a moment/ and that god hath no need of man's good works, but that he hath need of our faith alone.  
This maketh folk to speak of faith alone, and show by the authority of saint Poule and saint jamys and many other places of holy scripture, that Tyndales master holy Luther lieth.  
But yet will Tyndale say, sith I do now speak of faith that is feeling and worketh well, and by reason of the feeling a can not but work well: what should master More eyle now to speak any more of the other faith alone, that for lack of feeling worketh not/ consydery●ge also that I bysyde the faith that feeleth and worketk well, add repentance also of all that men do amiss, what fau● there fore findeth he now? or what would the man have more?  
first there is yet cause to speak of faith alone, because Tyndale is not an heretic alone, but that there be many more beside him which yet say still as Luther did before.  
Also there is cause, because of Tyndale specially, which would gloze Luther's old heresy with these new words which will in no wise stand/ with which he would make the world to ween that in faith alone he meant faith, hope, and charity/ and that it could not be that he any other meant, because there can be none other faith but only that alone that hath both hope and charity therewith: and by this bald gloze that three virtues be all one virtue, and that one virtue were three, against both reason and scripture, would he mock unlearned people, and make them believe that Luther meant well, and that all other men were so mad that they could not understand him. And therefore to make open this wily folly of Tyndale, is also a cause why that I speak so much of faith alone, besides the necessity of answering him concerning his worshipful evasion of his own feeling faith, on which he hopeth that he may be bold, because no man can come into his breast to see what manner of feeling himself feeleth there.  
But yet hath god of his great goodness beguiled him, & made him so mad in the brain, that he hath uttered himself such things with his own pen, as (our saviour saying himself that the mouth speaketh of the abundance or fullness of the heart) must needs make every man to feel even at his fingers end, that Tyndale in the bottom of his heart with his fulsome feeling faith, feeleth a foul filthy heap of false sumbling heresies.  
For yet is his faith worse than faith alone, which he calleth the devils faith and mine. For as saint jamys saith, The devils do both believe & tremble also for dread/ but thou (sayeth he to Tyndale and every such as Tyndale is, that for his feeling faith saith that he is so great with god, that he may do many horrible deeds without any deadly sin) art worse than the devil because thou dost not dread.  
besides this, sith Tyndale teacheth such a feeling faith as no faith as he saith can save a soul but it/ and than teacheth therewith all that toward the getting thereof, no man can any more do then the child can to the bygetting of his own father, that is to say all mos●e less than right nought: what doth he by this teaching but teach every man to sit still & go nothing about yt● And when he saith good works be nothing of our will, but necessarily spring out of the feeling faith, and yet be but like leaves rather than fruit/ for he saith they shall never have reward in heaven, b●t that it were damnable to think that ever they should, tho●gh he would by other words bid men to do them, yet doth he by this tale so strongly teach the contrary, that who so believeth him shall leave them all undone.  
And when he teacheth repentance without shrift or penance & saith the shrift is the invention of the devil/ could he ever have comen into the feeling of that false faith, but if the devils own hand had fumbled about his heart?  
I pass over his false faith in all the other sacraments, his calling of Cristis blessed body bare cakebrede or sterche, with his doctrine of lechery between freres and nuns, and many mad fransyes more that he teacheth beside/ this one thing is enough and may serve for all together, that he teacheth his feeling faith only to serve for salvation, and without which he showeth every mau must needs go to the devil. For other faith he putteh none, but such as he saith is fruitless/ and then teaching therewithal that toward the getting of that faith (which except he get he must needs to the devil) no man can any thing at all do by good endeavour: he both teacheth that it were in vain for any man to labour for it, or so much as pray therefore, or in his heart once to wish it, sith he could with no such thing help any thing toward it, or forsuch desire be any thing the nearer, but sit even still and let god work alone. And if he feel any good mind, never labour to keep it. For he that sent it can keep it if he list. And if he will not what can the man do. And if he will/ the man then shall not need nor nothing can if he would in turning toward god/ no more than the hachette can in a man's hand, which though it may with the man's hand work upon the tree, yet can it not of the own nature any thing help itself, to move and turn back toward the man.  
This is Tyndal's teaching/ and this is his own ensample, whereby he showeth us that we can nothing do in turning toward god, but god doth all alone.  
And this doth Tyndale tell us and well and boldly dare/ no thing afeard of god that crieth the contrary by the mouth of Solomon, where he saith: Turn again thou. Sunamyte turn again. And where he saith also, 
Canti. 6.  Turn to me and I will turn to you/ would the prophet ween you have said so to his hatchet? 
zachar. 1.  Now where he saith also, Turn you to me & ye shall be saved: Like as if man could turn without god, christ would not say without me ye can do nothing/ so if on the other side man could nothing at all do in the turning toward him, 
Esaiae. 4 5  no more than can the hachette in turning toward the man, god would not so often and so earnestly call and cry upon us, 
Apoca. 3.  nor stand and knock at the door of our heart, if ourself could nothing do to the opening thereof, and thereby to let him in.  
Now Tyndale not only teacheth us this ungracious lesson, by which he would make men so to look for grace, that for the lack of their own endeavour they may be worthy to lose it/ but also sith he both teacheth us that with out that faith every man is dampened/ and than teacheth us also, that to the ge●tyng thereof no man can nothing do: he teacheth I say by these two things together, every wretched wilful best to lay the weight of his wretchedness & the malice of his own wretched will, unto the providence & predestination of god.  
And sith that this is so high an heresy, so sore blaspheming the high majesty of god: I say that Tyndal's feeling faith is yet far worse, not only then bare faith alone, but also thenne no faith at all/ as it were less evil never to have herd of god nor never h●ue thought of him neither then to believe that there is god, and then so bestely to blaspheme him.  
And where as Tyndale calleth faith alone, the faith of the pope and of the devil & me/ what faith the pope hath or myself either, god shallbe judge and not Tyndale. But surely as for his own feeling faith, himself here cherely declareth that it is double as devilish as the devils own faith in deed.  
first for the point that saint jamys speaketh of, because of his malapert presumption, affirming that for the feeling faith he may do much horrible deeds without any deadly sin, & therefore is as saint jamys sayeth out of the dread of god/ and therein worse than the devil which both believeth and trymbleth also for dread.  
And secondly is his feeling faith worse than the devils is, in that the devil believeth that the very body of christ is in the blessed sacrament of the altar, and feareth, and trymbleth, and giveth reverence thereto, ye and unto the image of Crystes cross also/ as hath in every ag● been proved in sundry places of christendom, and daily appeareth yet/ where as Tyndale calleth blessing and crossing but wagging of folks fingers in the air, and feareth not (like one that would at length wag hemp in the wind) to mock at all such miracles, and say the devil fleeth from folks blessings as men i'll from children feigning themself afeard of them when they list to sport and play with them nor feareth to mock the sacrament the blessed body of god, & full like a stretch hemp, call it but cake breed or starch.  
And finally yet is his faithless feeling faith far worse than is the devils, in that the devil I dare say believeth and so sayeth to men's charge, that such as do not believe might if they would/ and such as do not turn to god, might if they list/ and layeth unto the dampened souls the cause of their own damnation, where Tyndale teaching us that they could do no thing to the contrary, layeth of their damnation all the blame in god. which plasphemouse heresy is such an heighnouse kind of abominable outrageous blasphemy, that I verily suppose in my mind, this point that Tindals' faith feeleth in his heart, that very worst dampened devil in the deepest dungeon in hell would abhor.  
And thus hath Tyndale in jesting upon my faith, to this good point wisely brought his own.  
And now where he goth forth holily and preacheth us, that there is a carnal irael and a spiritual, there is Isaac and Ishmael, jacob Esau. And that Ishmael persecuted Isaac, and ●sau jacob, and the fleshly the spiritual, and that saint Paul complained that he was persecuted of his carnal brethren. what wise conclusion will Tyndale make of this? Mary no little thing nor like no small fool I warrant you. For lo thus he concludeth, and thus do we in ●ur time and as the elect ever did and shall do till the worlds end. By this he teacheth us lo that ever more the elects be they that be persecuted, and they be the very Isaackes, the very jacob's, & the very spyrytuallies, and the very apostles, and the very Paulys/ and on the other side therefore all they that persecute any man, what can men call them by right but Ismaelys, & Esaves, & reprobates, and very carnal fleshflyes.  
And by Tyndals' holy tale, 
1. R●g●. 19 ●3  when david was persecuted of Saul, then was david an elect. But when he persecuted either the Phylystyens or the rebels that rose with Absalon, 
2 R●gum. 1●  marry fie for shame for that was a foul fault, for than was he a reprobate.  
And Moses when he was persecuted and fled/ then was he an elect. But when he pursued with the well believing people the false idolaters of his own company, than was he a reprobate and as many as went with him.  
Saint Poule also when he was persecuted of his carnal brothern, then was he a good man and a very electe●. But when he persecuted Hymeneus & Alexander, 
1. Tim●t●. 1.  & gave their bodies to the devil to teach them leave their blasphemy/ then Tyndale maketh him an Ishmael and an Esau and but a carnal reprobate.  
And our saviour himself also while the jews persecuted him than agreeth Tyndale by this reason that he was all that while good & holy & spiritual. But when he made a whip once and persecuted them, & bet them away all that bought and sold within the temple, 
Ichon. 2  the temple being but a temple of stone to (by which manner of temples Tyndale setteth not a straw) what manner man Tyndale here maketh our saviour that he shall tell you himself for me, and in this wise reason of his he telleth us ye see well all ready.  
And even in like wise now, when true men, catholics, and good men do persecute thiefs, heretics, & murderers/ then are all true men, all catholics, and all good men, plain Ismaelys, Esau's, and carnal/ and the thiefs, heretics, and murderers, without any change of purpose to the better, be by and by because they be persewed, not for justice but by justice, turned from evil to good, and suddenly be become the Isaakes and the Jacob'S and the very spyrytuallies.  
But now what when the thiefs, heretics, and murderers persecute the true men, the catholics and innocentes, as in Swycherlande and Saxony they do/ what will Tyndale call them than? will he call them by their right names and tell what they be worthy? I fear me the turning of Tyndals' fellows to the left side, will alter and change the case, and make him somewhat to mollify and mitigate his judgement/ and play as the lady did, of whom when one asked what that man were worthy which having a fair young woman to his wife, took her maid beside, she gave sentence shortly and said he were worthy by the marry mass to be hanged by the neck upon the next bough. But when she was then demanded ferther, what were that woman worthy, which having a goodly young gentleman to her husband, took yet his servant bysyde/ now in good faith said she and in my mind, she were yet to blame to, ye and worthy by our blessed lady to be well said unto/ and I promise you faithfully even so should she in deed, had I the rule of her, but if she were the better fellow.  
Thus would (I ween) Tyndale be loath to give any sore sentence upon heretics, what so ever they be besides.  
And also I remember me now that he can not in deed with his conscience. For sith they be his own elects, and his evangelical brethren, and fellows of his feeling faith/ he hath perdie told us all ready that do they never so great horrible deeds, they do yet no deadly sin, and therefore worthy ye wot well but little pretty penance, because they consent not to their sins but commit them all of frailty.  
He should be also in this matter in a marvelous perplexite if he were made the judge. For how should he bear himself upright among all his fellows, when he seeth well him self that of them all, as all pursue the catholics, so every sect perseweth other. For the Hyuskyns and Suynglianies pursue the Lutherans, as Luther himself complaineth/ and the Lutherans them again/ & all they punish and kill the anabaptists/ so that by Tyndales reason there be none very Isaaks, and Israel's, and spyrytuals, but the anabaptists only, because they lack yet power to persecute. But Tyndale would here find some shift to excuse all the rabble, rather than to call the persecution that heretics make any manner sin at all.  
we will therefore never ask Tyndale the question nor make him no judge in this matter, le●te we make (if we follow him) the world swarm full of all mischief/ for thereto fain would he bring it. But let us ask saint austin the question, which against the donatists such heretics then in africa as these be now in Almaigne, plainly showeth and declareth, that good men do very well, and deserve thank of god in persecuting and punishing them that be naught. And he commendeth Sara for persecuting and correcting her maid/ and saith not that if she would be an elect and spiritual, she must have let her maid have persewed and beaten her. And yet showeth saint austin farther and by good reason proveth, that these heretics and all such other as nought be, be the very persecutors ever more themself/ even then also when it seemeth that good men pursue them.  
But we shall let this process pass, which patch hath Tyndale here brought in, but for the safeguard of heretics, and impu●yte of all mischievous people, a jobbe as it seemeth of some other man's making, and planted in at pleasure somewhat out of place, for any gay depending that it hath either upon the words that go before, 
Num. 12.  or the words following after upon it/ saving that in the words nextensewing, he putteth us in mind of Moses, which being a very special elect and an holy prophet, and as the scripture saith a most mild & piteous man, did yet pursue, punish, and kill heretyques, idolaters, & scysmatyques, in great number among the jews/ which thing destroyeth all that pleasant patch which Tyndale hath there put in, to prove all such as pursue and punish such heretics and scysmatyques, to be Ismaeles Esus, and very carnal reprobates.  
But forthwith after that patch Tyndale goth forth in great haste, and giveth again against my faith a marvelous sore assault.  Tyndale. 
what a multitude came out of Egypte under Moses, of which the scripture testifieth that they believed moved by the miracles of Moses/ as Simon magus believed by the reason of Philip'S miracles Acts. viii. Nevertheless the scripture testifieth that vi hundred thousand of those believers perished thorough unbelief and left their carcases in the wilderness, and never came into the land that was promised them. And even so shall the children of master Moor's faithless faith made by the persuasysyon of man, leap short of the rest which our sevyour jesus is risen unto. And therefore let them embrace this present world as they do, whose children they are though they ha●e to be called so.  More. 
The effect of Tyndales tale is here as it seemeth, to teach us what a great apparel it were to be by the persuasion of men or miracles, persuaded to believe in christ/ for as much as of such as by Moses and his miracles were induced to believe in god, vi. C, thousand left their carcases in the wilderness, and never came to the land of behest, whereupon his conclusion is and his intent as it seemeth, that in likewise who so ever be by men or miracles induced to believe in christ, shall leave their souls in hell, and never come to heaven. For that is our land of behest.  
Now if this thing be so perilous to be persuaded by men or miracles/ I marvel somewhat wherefore our saviour himself used those means to persuade them/ and so sore laid it unto the charge of them, 
jaco. 10.  that with the work of his miracles would not be persuaded to believe his words/ & also did rebuke his apostles for that they did not believe them tha● had seen him risen.  
But to the intent that no man shall need to be ● fir for Tyndales tale, to take the fruit of the miracles that god worketh daily in his catholic church, to cause it thereby to be perceived for his very church, and thereupon to be firm credence given thereunto, both in learning which is the very scripture of god, and also the true fruitful sentence of the same, with all such other things as god hath doth and shall with his own spirit teach unto his church bysyde unto the worlds end. we shall a little examine hear Tyndales high solemn words.  
first will we bid him prove, that all those vi C. thousand died in desert for unbelief/ and be bold to tell him that he belieth the scripture, for the scripture saith not so. For the scripture showeth that many of them died for inordynate desire of meet/ not in great necessity or for fere of famen, but for the insatiable appetite of the fulfilling, the delicate wantonness of their taste/ which not content with the pleasant meat of manna, longed sore and murmured that they might not frampe in flesh as the Lollards use now to do on good friday.  
And therefore had they their bone granted them, and their bane given them therewith. For they were choyked therewith/ and so will some of these at length.  
Some of them were also swallowed up quykke with the ground opening under them/ not properly for unbelief, 
 but nath●lesse for that vice which gooth next it, that is to say for a schism in gathering together with Abyron, Dathan, and Chore/ a bysye swarm of rebellious company (as these scysmatycall heretyques do now) that swerved from the obedience of Moses and Aaron whom god had appointed for their governors/ whereof god by great miracle took open vengeance.  
And some other there were that there left their carcases in will dearness, for diverse other causes beside unbelief, as by the process of the bible appeareth.  
But now if they all that left their carcases in desert, had there perished for unbelief/ what had this made to the purpose against us? for we say not but that he which at one time believeth very well, may for all that at another time fall from the faith again/ as we see proved by Tyndale, and Luther, and Huyskyn, and many such other more. But this I say for all that yet, 
Ex●●●. ●2.  that even among that people while they were in desert, the number of open unbelievers professing their unbelief, never were so many at one time, but that the true believers were yet the stronger part/ as it well appeared when the faithful folk commanded there to by Moses, arose and went with him, & persecuted and bet, and subdued the faithless, and killed of them great number.  
And so shall it ever be by god's grace in cristendom, that never shall there rise so many miss believers, but that the true believers shall be ●●yll the strenger. And though the faithless be some time suff●ed to prosper in their malicious rage by some evil softness of such as should resist them, as did they naughty people while Aaron du●s● not withstand them: yet shall god always soon after send down some good Moses from the mount, that shall with the courage of godly zeal rear up the faithful, and show the proud faithless heretics, how far they be to feeble and to few. And when it shall come to thextremity, christ shall come down from his high mount himself, and gather his flock together/ and with the mighty blast of his own blessed mouth shall overthrow and destroy the strong captain of all these heretics antichrist himself, and shall rule those ragy●use rebellious schismatics with an iron rod, 
Psal. 2●  and all to frushe & to break those earthly wretched h●retyques like a sort of earthen pots/ and shall hold his doom day, and bring thereto and from it unto heaven, no small number yet of those that shall then be left. Of whom saint Poule saith, Then we that live and remain, ●hall be taken up with them also in the clouds to meet our lord in the air, 
1. Thes. 4●  and so shall we for ever be with our lord.  
And even so were there of those believers in like wise, that believed by the mean of men and miracles, many a thousand that came in conclusion to the land of behest. For this can make no matter touching Tyndales reason, whither they were the self same persons that came out of Egypte with Moses or other, so that they were such as to believe, were induced by men & by miracles. And such believers were all the believers that afterward came thither. And therefore Tyndales tale of them that left their carcases in the wilderness, shall not need to fere us from the belief attained & gotten by the mean of men's preaching and gods miracles/ with which outward means god in all those that believe worketh ever more.  
For Tyndale hath here no farther to say in that I can see, to make his tale serve any thing for his purpose, except he tell us that as many as came to the land of behest, were elects and had the feeling faith bysyde/ and that all those that died in wilderness, were reprobates, and therefore had but the faith of men's teaching and of miracles alone.  
But now is Tyndale tell us this/ we will pray him prove it. For till he do more than say it/ we will not let to say again, that with as many as believed, god wrought himself with their wills, and that else they had not believed neither men nor miracles.  
And we shall not let to tell Tyndale ferther, that of those believers which were induced by the mean of men or miracles, there died in wilderness such as we may well trust to have been elects and to be now in heaven/ and therefore that they either had the feeling faith if none other might sufficiently serve/ or else such other faith as they had gotten by the mean of men or miracles, was for their salvation sufficient enough. And surely if it so were/ then yet again we shall not need to fere. For if we may get heaven we care for none other land of behest, nor for none other doth Tyndale put the sample, but by their coming to the land of behest or their losing thereof, to signify which manner faith should attain to heaven, and which should fail thereof and never attain thereto.  
And in deed as it seemeth, Tindale meaneth that all those which left their carcases in the wilderness, perished and lost heaven for lack of ●uche a feeling faith/ and therefore he concludeth, even so shall the children of master M●res faithless faith made by the persuasion of men, leap short of the rest which our saviour jesus is risen unto. But now hath Tindale forgotten, that the prophet Moses himself that spoke with god & was taught by him, & not persuaded by miracles either told him by other men's mouths, or wrought in his sight by the mean of other men, but wrought by god by the mean & instrument of his own hands/ left yet for all that his carcays & his bonies in the wilderness/ and that hid so surely, that never man should after find them to carry them thence. Now sith not only such as attained faith by persuasyon of men, but such also as Tyndale doubteth nothing to be sure of salvation, left their carcayses in the desert, & never came in the land of behest: his ensample of them that there left their carcayse no thing maketh more against the children of master M. faith as faithless as he calleth it then against the children of Tyndals own feeling faith. And therefore every man may feel that Tyndale hath brought in this point like a very fool. For every man may well perceive, that the faith which Tyndale reproveth in me & calleth it faithless, because men are induced therein to by miracles & ꝑsuasyons of men/ Tyndale himself knoweth to be the faith of holy saint austin/ as his words against the Manicheys which Tindale hath himself rehearsed, testify well and bear witness though Tyndals own gloze w●re true. For if he believed the church because they were than good ●en/ yet was he than induced in to the belief by the persuasion of m●n. And yet is not he leapt short o● that r●ste that Cry●● is risen to, but is therein/ and not in the rest only but in the bless to/ ●nd so be many children of the same faith and m●●y more shall. But as for Tyndals' faith believeth itself, that himself and his master and all their children shall lie still and sleep, and therefore leap short of bless and life to till domes day/ and than dare I be bold to warrant them for as long again after.  
But yet sith Tyndale telleth us he●e that this faith of ours is nought, and by his wise reason the faith of saint austin to, because both he and we were induced to t●e belief by miracles and persuasion of men: Let us beseech Tindale being so special a preacher sent by god, to give us his good ghostly counsel what we may do t● come to heaven. what will he answer us, what connsayle will he give us? He will of likelihood because he likeneth us to Simon Magus that believed for the miracles which he saw Phylyp work, bid us therefore do as saint Peter bode him do/ to whom he said do penance for this thy wickedness, and pray to god if he peradventure will forgive the this evil mind of thy heart.  
we might here say that the fault which saint Peter found with Simon Magus, was not the fault that Tyndale findeth with us, that is to wit the believing for miracles and by persuasion of men/ but for that he would with money have bought the gift of the holy ghost. How be it sith Tyndale I see well taketh this fault of ours for as great a crime as that of his/ it can not become us to defend it, but confess it for such and be sorry for it/ and show him that we be full heavy and repent it very sore, that ever we believed either the scripture the better for the church, or the church the better for the miracles that are daily wrought in it, or any piece of the faith for any miracle that Phylyppe wrought or jacob either, or any apostle of them, or yet our saviour either. But now that we be so sorry for it what will he bid us more? Fasting, praying, or pilgrimage, or other wurkes of penance, we ●hall not need to fe●e. For Tyndale useth none/ but sayeth it is sin to do any. well we shall be at his counsel content for his pleasure to forbear all those synnies of pain and penance to/ but yet how shall we do for faiths For without the very feeling faith, no repentance can save us be we never so well ware in keeping us both fro shrift and thrift and satisfaction. what counsel will he give us therefore, how we may labour for this faith?  
He hath given us plain answer all ready, that there is with us no remedy. For sith we have so highly offended god, not of weakness, frailty, and infirmity, as his elects do when they fall into their horrible deeds, by the fruit of their sin remaining in their flesh and breaking out at their frail members/ but even willingly, and of purpose, and of pure malice, when we endeavour ourself to believe the articles of Cristes' faith by miracles and persuasion of men, which faith is as he saith the devils faith/ therefore as for the rest that god is risen to, he telleth us plainly we shall never come thereto/ and therefore biddeth us never look thereafter nor never care therefore, but let it alone and think no more thereon, but play & make us merry while we may/ and while we can never have good in the world to come, embrace therefore he biddeth us and hold fast this present world and the pleasures thereof while we may, and be not so foolish as to lose both.  
Is not here good christian readers a good lesson and a goodly gospel of this evangelical doctor? I wysse saint Peter answered not Simon Magus so sore ye wot well. But what, sith there is no remedy with us, but that Tyndale will needs damn us all in to Dymmynges day/ yet let us beseech him of his comfortable counsel for some other good fellows, as have been by grace hitherto kept and preserved from such ungodly coming into the faith, and have so well resisted all credence of miracles and all men's persuasions, that for any thing that god could do by mean of men or miracles, they stand yet clear aboard and believe nothing at all.  
If some such good fellow would now beseech Tyndale to teach him the means how he might get his feeling faith/ what counsel would Tindale now give unto him: will he bid him repent his vnbylyefe● if he so bid him, the man will ween he mocketh him. For how can he repent the not believing of any article, but if he first believe that his duty is to believe it/ and hard it is to conceive or imagine that a man may believe that such a point or such a point every m●n ought to byleue, but if he first believe that point himself.  
And Tyndale hath also showed us that concerning the believing, the elect can no thing do at all, till god make him first both for to see and feel and so forth/ and therefore when he telleth him this tale of byly●f, and then biddeth him go and repent his unbelief before he tell him how he may first come to the very feeling belief/ the poor man may well think that Tindale d●th but mock him.  
what counsel then will Tyndale give him ferther? will he tell him that it is the liberal free gift of god, and therefore advise him to pray god to give it him? If Tyndale tell him thus/ then the man calling to mind Tyndals formate tale that he hath written and taught, that the will of man can no thing work with god toward god, though it may work with god toward outward things/ and now this prayer if it lie not in his will, wherefore doth Tyndale advise him to it. And if it lie in his will/ yet sith by Tyndals' tale it can no thing do toward god, and the turning of god to him and him to god (For if it could, then could his will do somewhat toward god, which Tyndale doth expressly deny) the poor man will ween that Tyndale doth yet but mock.  
More over sith Tyndale expressly mocketh all endeavour of man's will in subduing of his reason into the service of the faith of christ, and calleth it a betleblynd reason/ the man will soon see that Tyndale is himself beetleblind, if he see not that it is then but a beetleblind counsel to bid him go pray therefore. For well ye wot the self same mind and e●tent of praying that god may make him believe is some endeavour of his own will toward the belief.  
And yet when Tyndale hath more over told us yet more plainly, that the man can by his will no more do toward the getting of the faith, then can the child in the begeting of his own father/ and every man well woteth that the child can not pray god to cause his grandfather to bygete his father: this man must needs perceive that in bidding him to pray for the faith, Tyndale doth plainly mock him.  
Finally good faithful reder, I can not in good faith perceive what counsel Tyndale can give any man toward salvation, standing his frantyke heresies against free will/ which as it is in every good and meritorious work prevented by the goodness of god, so doth it in such as have age and reason, work and walk on with god/ not in other things only but with endeavour also toward faith, by credence giving both to miracles and good persuasions of men/ which things god hath here ordained for the means toward it, convenient for the state of this present life, and sufficient for the just cause of damnation, of all such as for lack of their own devour and for frowardness of their own free will, do not upon so sufficient caases believe/ sith that if there lacked not endeavour upon their own part, the goodness of god would have assisted them with his help to the perfection and full infusion of that grace in faith, hope, and charity, that but if the will afterward finally fall therefro, should bring to the glory from which they should never fall/ and toward which glory, Tyndale standing his heresy, can as ye see babble he never so sayntly, give any man any counsel forward, but even to sit still, and do nought, and let god alone. For as ye see plainly to this end at last cometh all his holy heresy, when it is well examined. And therefore would not yet master More by glad to change his faith for Tyndales, as faithless as false Tyndale calleth it.  
But now concludeth Tyndale all his concclusyon thus  Tyndale. 
And hereby may ye see that it is a plain and an evident conclusion as bri●●t as the son shining, that the troth of god's word dependeth not of 〈◊〉 truth of the congregation.  More. 
who ever said that it did? who was ever so mad to think that the troth of god's word, depended upon the mouths of any mortal men or any creature either in earth or heaven? but without any outward dependens, hath his solydyte substance and fastness of and in it self. But the thing that is in question between us, is not whereby. Tondale knoweth and I also that god's word is true. But whereby he knoweth and I to, which is the word of god, and because Tyndale, and I be not agreed thereupon, but I say written and unwritten and he but written only? I come nearer unto him therein, & ask him how he knoweth which is the word of god written, that is to wit, which is the very scripture. And the● say I that the certainty of this thing every man that ordinarily hath it, cometh to it by the catholic church.  
And that I say troth in this point/ I think that every christian man that knoweth which be the scryptures● will for his own part bear me we●nesse/ as holy saint austin hath all ready down for his part, in the words of his before remembered written against the Manycheis, where he saith, I would not believe the gospel/ but if the authority of the church moved me thereto. which saying of saint austin ye see yourself that Tyndale hath so falsely and yet for all that so faintly glossed for an answer, that they remain still unanswered.  
And therefore as for Tyndales conclusion, we will with good will grant him that it is as clear as the son shining, that the truth of god's words dependeth not upon the truth of the congregation. But sith ye see good readers as clear as the son shyving, that no man said the contrary, nor the question between us was not whither gods word were true, because the church saith that god's word is true (For so saith not the church of christ alone, but Turks, and jews, and paynims to, and all the creatures of heaven, and earth, and hell to, saving these her●tyques only, which would with their false gloss make his words false even such as the knowledge for his). But sith you see well as I say that our question is not what thing maketh god's word to be true, nor by what mean men know god's word to be true/ but by what mean men know which is the true word of god, and whether we know not which is the true gospel by the mean & teaching of the known catholic church or not by it, but by some ●ther church or congregation unknown: ye may see yourself as clear as the son shining, that Tyndale bringeth in his bright clear conclusion, not for to show you any light of troth, but for to lead us from the sight of the matter and make us look uppou a wrong mark, or lead us into the dark where we should see nothing at all.  
But now sith Tyndale hath all this while proved in such wise as ye have herd, that we be not able to give any good reason of our belief, so farforth as we give credence to the catholic church, no more than the Jews or Saracens: he remembreth himself at last, and le●te himself and his disciples might peradventure seem to fall in the same fault, he teacheth them now that are his elects and have his feeling faith, such plain evident answers for the prove of their feeling faith, that no man can ask any farther. For lo sir thus he saith.  Tyndale. 
And therefore when thou art asked, why thou believest that thou shalt be saved thorough Crist, and of such like principles of our faith/ answer, thou wottest and feles●e it to be true.  More. 
ye wot well good readers that the principal purpose whereupon we go, is the argument which Tyndale would seem to soil, that is to say the argument by which we prove the known catholic church to be the very church of christ/ because by that church & none other we know which is the true scripture of christ. whereupon we conclude that the same church therefore and none other is the very true church, by which we know the true doctrine.  
To this Tyndale hath as ye have herd scudded in and out like an hare that had twenty brace of greyhounds after her, and were afeard at every foot to be snached up. For perceiving well that if he grant it to be true, that he knoweth which is the scripture by the catholic church, he must needs then grant also that the same church is the very church: he shyfteth in and out now ye now nay/ & where as he can not in conclusion avoid it, yet he finally seeketh out a shift to slynke away slily and seem not to grant it, showing us that he knoweth not which is the very scripture by the catholic church, but ●y his feeling faith.  
Now is it therefore good reason that Tyndale carry us not away with other question from this point, & devise a question himself, as why he believeth that he shallbe saved thorough christ. For both is that questions not so directly to the matter, and also there may peradventure upon that question arryse another question, that is whether the salvation of any determinate person yet living be in the same person any article of belief or not/ & some men will hold peradventure that it is not properly any point of the belief but of hope.  
But therefore letting that question pass for this present/ I shall purpose unto Tyndales disciple the question that goth next to the purpose, and he shall answer as Tindale teacheth him. For I am loath to talk with master Tyndale himself. I ask his disciple therefore this/ sir M. Tyndales disciple, sith ye say that which is the very scripture ye know not by the known catholic church as saint austin said that he did, & Luther also your own masters master saith that he doth: I pray you tell us therefore how do you know that the books of the four evangelists be the very scripture of god?  
To this question ye here how Tyndale standeth at his back, and prompteth him in his ear in this wise, Say thou believest it because thou feelest it to be true. Very well and properly answered. Then will I ask him one question or twain more. wherefore believe you that no good work shallbe rewarded in heaven, and that freres may lawfully wed nuns, and that the blessed sacrament of the altar is nothing but cake breed or starch. To all these and twenty such questions more Tyndale teacheth him thus, Answer thou wottest and feleste it to be true. And when he asketh how thou knowest that it is true/ answer, because it is written in thine heart. And if he ask who wrote it/ answer, the spirit of god. And if he ask how thou camest first by it/ tell him, whether by reading of books or hearing it preached, as by an outward instrument/ but that inwardly thou waste taught by the spirit of god. And if he ask whether thou believest it not because it is written in books, or because the priests so preach/ answer no not now, but only because it is written in thine heart, and because the spirit of god so preacheth and so testifieth unto thy soul. And say though at the beginning thou w●st moved by reading or preaching as the Samarytanis were by the words of the woman/ yet now thou believest it not therefore any longer, but only because thou haste h●rd if of the spirit of god and red it written in thine heart.  
Lo good readers here ye see that Tyndale hath instructed his disciple to make answer sufficient to every thing that may be asked him/ the whole effect whereof standeth all together in two things. The first, that all these points of his faith he believeth, because he feeleth them written in his heart by the spirit of god. The second that though he came first unto them by writing or preaching and first believed them for that writing that he red or preaching that he herd, as the Samarytanies did for the woman's words: yet now he believeth him not therefore, but only because he readeth it written by the spirit of god in his heart.  
Now for as much as this outward mean of preaching & reading, is the first mean by which he came thereto, which mean he regardeth not now, nor hath no longer any respect in his belief thereunto/ & therefore sith he is now comen to that high point of feeling faith, by which he readeth written by the spirit of god in his heart, that the books of the four evangelists be very true scripture of god, he believeth it not now the better of a point because the catholic church saith so: I will therefore ask this good scholar of Tyndale, whither he feel written in his heart by the spirit of god, that he hath a better faith and a more perfect than saint austin had, after that god had by miracle turned him to the faith and write against the Manicheys, from whose false sect god had called him.  
Peradventure this question will somewhat seem strange to this disciple of Tyndale, because it is none of those to which his master hath taught him to make answer. But yet I think in conclusion that his master will not advise him to say that he feeleth himself to have a more perfayt belief then saint austin, in any such thing as saint austin and he believed both, lest every man should feel the master of such a scholar to prove a proud fool.  
Now on the other side, if he confess that he feel not his own faith for any more perfayt then saint austins was but believe in his own mind that saint austin in any true point of belief commune unto them both, had as full a faith and as perfayte as he: then will I ask him wherefore he doth not now believe the scripture still for the authority of the church, as well as saint austin did still when he wrote of himself against the Manicheys, and said I would not believe the gospel but if the authority of the church moved me thereto. He believed it for the authority of the church alway still/ and yet dare I say and Tyndale I suppose dare not say the contrary, but that the spirit of god had as well written that conclusion in his heart, as in the holy heart of any disciple of Tyndale, whom Tyndale here teacheth, to answer us the contrary.  
And thus as concerning the knowledge of the very scripture which is our principal matter: Tyndals answer in the very chief point of all, but if he prove his scholars faith better than saint austins/ his answer that he teacheth here his disciple is not worth a rysshe.  
But now let us in those other articles ask this good scholar of Tyndale, sith it is so that he feeleth and findeth in his heart written by the spirit o● god, that freres & monks that have by vow forsaken flesh, may lawfully fall from fish to woman's flesh, and under the name of wedding make stewed strumpettes of nuns/ and feeleth also by like feeling faith, that good works are nought worth nor shall be rewarded in heaven/ and feeleth also by the same false feeling faith, that in the blessed sacrament of the altar there is neither the precious body nor blood of christ, but only cake breed and wine or starch in stead of breed: I shall ask him I say therefore the question to which his master hath bound him to make answer, that is to wit how he came first by this faith that is to say the historical faith of them, before that the spirit of god with writing them in his heart, caused him there both to read them and feel them.  
For answer of this question, Tyndale saith to his scholar, Tell him whither it were by reading in books or hearing it preached. Very well. Now sith his master biddeth him tell us, I would pray him to tell us, whither by preaching or reading in books. To this he will I ween answer me that he learned those things by preaching. Then I ask him by whose preaching he came to it. To this must he be fain to say, that by the preaching of his own master wyllyam Tyndale, Luther, Lambert, Huyskyn, or Suinglius, or some such other apostatical preachers. But now to this shall I tell him again, that sith he had not the feeling faith written by the spirit in his heart after his masters own tale, till he first believed the same things with an historical faith by the hearing of those holy preachers/ he must to th'intent that he may lead us in to the same faith as they did him, tell us what reason he had to believe them/ saying that they be neither men of more learning, nor of more wit, nor of so much virtue, as were saint austin, saint Hierom, saint basil, saint Cyprian, saint Chrysostom, saint Grygory, saint Ambrose, with many such other like/ whose holy living, true faith, & doctrine, god hath approved & testified to the world by manifold wonderful miracles/ all which holy doctors have taught men to believe the contrary.  
To this question Tyndale teacheth his scholar to make answer and say, that he believed them because they lay so good authority for them. what authority lay they for them shall I say. Now to this question Tyndale himself maketh an answer and saith, Concerning outward teaching/ we allege for us scripture elder than any church that was t●is xliii. hundred years, and old authentic stories which they had brought a sleep where with we confound their lies.  
Remember ye not how in our own time, of all that toughte grammar in England not one understood the latin tongue? how c●me we then 〈◊〉 t●e latin tongue again? not by them, though we learned certain rules a●● pr●ncyples of them, by which we were moved and had an oc●●s●on 〈…〉 further, but out of the old authors. Even so we se●e 〈…〉 out of which we learn, and not of our church, th●●●h w● receypte 〈◊〉 principles of our church at the beginning, but more falsehood am●●●● 〈◊〉 truth.  
Lo good readers this disciple of Tyndale in these articles of his feeling faith, that good christian men's good works shall have no reward in heaven, & that freres may wed nuns, and in his blasphemy against the blessed body and blood of christ in the sacrament of the aultare/ he believed his master/ and his master his master Marten Luther, and the other lewd masters of these new sects, not without a cause, ye see well. For he saith that they allege for their heresies the scripture & old ancient stories/ & therewith as men have brought up now the true old grammar again, even so do they now bring up the old true faith again/ whereof though they took some principles of the catholic church at the beginning, yet they took thereof more falsehood among then truth.  
Now which those things are that he calleth the falsehood that he saith they took of the church/ ye know good christian readers well enough, those are the points for which he so sore jesteth and raileth against the catholic church, the teaching that good works shallbe rewarded in heaven, and that folk should keep the holidays, & fasting days, & pray for all christian souls, & honour the precious bo●y & blood of christ in the blessed sacrament, and observe their holy vows made to god, and forbid that freres should wed nuns, and many such other things. These things he sayeth that the church had taught him false, till that now Tyndale, and Luther, and Lambert, and Huyskyn, and Suynglius, have restored again the right faith in all these points, that hath been this viii hundred year lost as Tyndale saith. These things have they now restored and brought up again by antyquytees and old stories, like as master Lyly late master of Poulys' school brought up in London the right order in teaching of grammar & learning of the latin tongue.  
This is good readers the thing that this good scholar of Tyndale by the counsel of his master answereth.  
But now good readers we must tell him again that his ensample of grammar and the latin tongue, is nothing like the matter of faith that he resembleth it unto. For the latin tongue was no thing that ever our lord promised to preserve for ever/ and therefore it might by chauncies & occasions of battle and war, perish and be lost/ and the countries compelled to leave it and r●ceyue some other language in the stead thereof. But as for the faith can neu●r fail, no more than can the catholic church/ against which our saviour hath himself promised that all the heretics that rebel against it, nor all the tyrants upon earth that insourge and oppugn it, which two sorts be the gates of hell, shall never obtain and prevail/ nor in like wise all the devils of hell that are within hell or walking in this world and busy about the gates of hell, shall never be able to destroy the faith which our saviour hath in like wise promised against the devil that went about to sift it out of his church, should be preserved a●d kept by the mean of his own special prayer.  
And therefore sith grammar in the latin tongue is a thing that may fail/ & the true faith is a thing by the spirit of god according to Crystes promise perpetually taught unto his church, 
Ioh●n. 1●  and therefore can never fail no not though all the books in the world should fail: therefore his similitude of grammar likened unto faith, is no more like then an apple to an oyster.  
Now as touching any such old authentic stories as he speaketh of, which he saith the church had brought a sleep, wherewith he sayeth that Luther, and Tyndale, and Huyskyn, and Suynglius, confound our lies: I would very fain here some one story, by which he proveth that fasting, and praying, and almose deeds, done in faith, hope, and charity, be nought worth, nor never shall have reward in heaven.  
By what old story proveth he that folk should not pray for their friends souls.  
By what old story will he show us, that christian women be priests and were wont to sing mass.  
By what old story can he make it good, that in the blessed sacrament is neither flesh nor blood, but only bare breed and wine?  
And by what old stories new founden out, can he now make us know, that freres or monks professed, were of old wont to wed nuns, and well allowed and much commended therein.  
we be very sure that in all these points except the last, we shall find unto these folk many old autentyque stories proving their heresies false. How be it as for the last in deed, I find not as far as I can remember any old stories against it. For I suppose verily that until frere Luther now began of late/ there never was wretch so bestely, that ever durst for very shame attempt any such incestuous marriage before/ but if it were only julianus apostata, which fell forthwith fro the faith, and became a false paynim, and persecuted the christian folk/ and christ quit him there after, and shortly sent shameful death, and the wonder of all the world upon him while the word standeth.  
Now come we then to the scripture. For therein they make as though they reigned, we allege saith Tyndale, 〈◊〉 us the scripture elder than any church that was these xiiii years.  
first when Tyndale here saith we/ I would wit of him which we, we Lutherans, or we Huyskyns, or we anabaptists, or we Swynglianies, or of which rabble of all the remanant of those hundred sects, of which never one agreeth with other, nor never a man with his fellow/ but each of them layeth the scripture as well against all the remanaunte of the sects, as against the catholic church.  
besides this, where Tyndale saith that they allege for them the scripture/ we say that some things there are that god will have believed, were of his word was delivered unto his church without writing, & in his chy●ch without writing preserved by the self same spirit that endyghted the writing. And this do we prove by old authentic books of old holy doctors, and by the authority of the catholic church, and by the manifold miracles that still continue in only the same church, for the comprobation of the doctrine of the same/ and besides all this yet by plain scripture to/ as I have clearly proved unto Tyndale in the last chapter of my third book. And for his purpose in that point he hath not one text of scripture, but such as he may be a shamed so far against the right sense of them to bring them forth in place.  
And over this for his final confusion in that point, ye have yourself heard in my fourth book, that the perpetual virginity of our lady he hath himself confessed, that who so ever here it taught must believe it/ and yet is it not proved by holy scripture. And therefore must he needs give over that false feeble heresy, which he was wont to hold, that we be bounden to believe nothing but if it be written, & as Luther saith evidently written in scripture.  
How be it in this that he saith he allegeth scripture/ he doth but walk about in a maase. For well ye wot good readers, and so doth himself to, that between these heretics and the church, the question is not for the more part in the words of the scripture, but upon the right sentence and understanding of the scripture. Now do we lay therein against them the old ancient doctors, whose expositions they contemn. For both for the reward of good works, and for fasting, and for the blessed sacrament, and for vows of chastity, if they would stand unto the expositions of the old holy doctors upon the scripture/ they can never avoid it, but that the scriptures be clear for our part against them/ or else as I have often said, let Tyndale tell us some one of so many saints, as sins the apostles time have written upon the scripture before Luther's days, that exponed the scripture in such wise, that it were by his exposition lawful for a frere to wed a nun.  
Therefore in conclusion as concerning the scripture, first sore such points as god hath taught his church without scripture, as the article of the perpetual virginity of our lady/ Tyndale can not teach his disciple that they allegge the scripture/ for in scripture it is not spoken of. If he will say that they be at liberty and not bound to believe it/ himself hath in that article confessed the contrary before, as ye have seen in my fourth book.  
And also in all such other like, if he believe not the church/ he might as well not have believed saint Poule. If he say that he could not but believe saint Poule, because god wrought miracles for him/ by the same reason must he believe the catholic church, for as much as god continually in every good christian country worketh miracles in it for the catholic church, and withdraweth his miracles from all churches of heretics, and thereby declareth that he doth those miracles not only in it but also for it.  
And also Tyndale knew not that god by the mouth of saint Poule said so/ but because that the church taught him that god did so. If he say yes, he felt it by the writing of gods own finger in his heart: he must consider that I speak of the time before that his heart was so holy, that god liked to write with his own finger therein. For himself saith that the historical faith goth first, & the feeling faith cometh after. Therefore at the lest wise in that time, why should he not as well believe the church when it said. This thing god by saint Poule did tell, as when it said, This thing god by saint Poule did write.  
And in like wise for the books of the written words of scripture, of which these heretics receive such as like them, & refuse such as they list/ sith that in the beginning saving for the catholic church, they neither knew the tone nor the t'other: why should they not believe the same church as well in the tone as the t'other.  
And as concerning the books of scripture which they they themself receive, sith the debate between the church and these heretics standeth not upon the words but upon the sentence/ if Tyndale were a Turk borne (because he layeth so often the Turks for his part against us) they would and well they might reckon him but for a proud fool, if he would now begin to conster them their Alcharon in great and necessary points of their faith, against the consent and agreement of all the old expositors of their own, and the belief of all the people from the death of Machomete unto Tyndales birth.  
If Tyndale would now refute mine objection of the Turks and their Alcharon, with objecting in like wise against me the jews and the old testament, which Crist and his apostles taught them to conster contrary to their old understanding fro Moses days to their own, and that the church of christ doth even the same still/ and will therefore say that so may himself and his master Martyne, and Huyskyn, and Swinglius, teach the church of christ in likewise to conster the scripture of the new testament in necessary points of faith, contrary to the consent of all the old expositors and the comen faith of all christian nations, sith the time of Cristes' death and his blessed apostles unto our own days, as Cris●e and his apostles and the catholic church teach the jews to construe their own scripture of the old testament, that they had had and taught so long before: I answer Tyndale thereunto letting pass other answers for this time, that christ and his apostles and the catholic church ever sins, have proved and yet prove the authority of their doctrine to be above the jews in the constrewing of their own scriptures delivered by Moses and the prophets, by that it hath pleaseth god for the testification thereof, to show by christ and his apostles and his catholic church, continually to this day many marvelous miracles, and withdraw them all from the jews. Now let Tyndale, and Luther, and Huyskyn, and Suynglius, do the like against the catholic church/ & then let them come and teach it to conster the scripture of christ contrary to all the old. But till they have the miracles among them and the catholic church loseth them/ if Tyndale and his fond fellows will in the mean while go now about to teach the church to conster the scripture of christ, contrary to the continual faith fro the apostles days unto their own, we may much better call than proud presumptuous fools, than might the Turks for teaching them a contrary construction of their Alcharon.  
Besides this, his ensample of the Jews will not help him for another cause. For the old expositors of their scriptures both of Moses and of the prophets, were upon the part of christ and his apostles, and consequently of the catholic church continually against the false scribes and pharisees, and the false doctoures sins, in such necessary points as they and we vary for/ as appeareth well by divers of their bokis, which be daily brought forth and allegged by men at this day learned in their own tongue, and also by that substantial well learned man Lyre in his exposition of the second psalm.  
Now if Tyndale, & Luther, & Huiskyn, & Suinglius, can say that the old holy doctors expositors upon the scripture did ever expone it, so that by their exposition it might appear that the scripture of christ appeareth it for lawful and not abhorreth it as a thing abominable, that freres should wed nuns: I will agree with Tyndale to give over all the matter.  
And thus ye see good readers, that as concerning the scripture which Tyndale here teacheth his disciple to say, that they allege elder than any church this xiiii C. year, sith the debate and variance is not in the words wherein they and we both agree but in the sentence/ wherein not only the comen continued faith of all christian nations, but also all the old holy doctors & saints ever synnies the same scripture written agreeth with the catholic church against him: his alleging of the scripture is not worth a leek.  
And therefore is he now driven in all that ever we vary for, to leave both scripture and all/ and when he ask wherefore he believeth either this or that, fain must he be to hold him only to his feeling faith/ and as Tyndale for a shoot anchor teacheth him, say that he believeth it only because he feeleth it written in his heart, without any reasonable outward cause wherefore he first believed it with a story faith, whereof as ye have herd he can for his heresies prove us none at all.  
Then sith he is comen to that point, that without any good outward cause, he must defend his faith by his only feeling/ may not the Turks and the jews both whom he layeth so sore against us, defend their faiths against him by the self same? And when he can no ferther say but that he feeleth his to be true, & each of theirs false/ may not each of them answer him that they feel theirs to be true and his false? And thus were gone the counsel of saint Peter, 
1 ●e●●i. 1●  that we should give a reason of our hope to every man that will ask us wherefore we hope so. And therefore leaving saint Peter his way/ let every man follow Tyndale and believe what he list, and say he feeleth it written in his own heart with gods own hand.  
Men say that he which hath been once at Jerusalem may lie by authority, because he shall be sure seldom to meet any man that hath be there, by whom his tale might be controlled. But Tyndale hath here to lie without controllement, with less labour sought out a shorter way, and as himself thinketh a surer to. For he goeth not once out a door therefore/ but say what he list, and tell us that he feeleth it true, and findeth it written within his own heart, by him that can not write false, the spirit of god himself. And there he weeneth himself surer then if he went twice to Jerusalem, and twice as far beyond. For yet might he for all that fortune to find some man that had the same way walked as far as he, and there founden Tyndal's tale false. But when he sayeth that he feeleth it written within his own heart/ he weeneth himself very sure. For he thinketh verily there can no man look in there to control him and see whither he lie or not.  
But yet as wily as that invention was/ Tyndale is therein beguiled/ and god hath gone beyond him, & made his wily folly founden out more plainly then of late appeared and came to controllement the self same wily folly in richard web.  
This web while I was chancellor to the kings highness, was by divers heretics detected unto me, that he had sold and used continually to sell many of these heretics books, foreboden by the kings gracious proclamation to be brought in to the realm/ and ferther I was by good and honest men informed, that in bristol where he than dwelled, there were of those pestilent books some thrown in the street & left at men's doors by night, that where they durst not offer their poison to sell, they would of their charity poison men for nought.  
Now being thus informed of him, and having very sure knowledge that he was a great medeler in such ungracious matters, and uttering of such poisoned books/ of which I had a doser delivered into my hands by Michael Lobley, whom I had attached for like matters and which had received the same docer and books of web and afterward abjured his heresies. I gave out a commission to certain good worshipful folk at Brystowe to attach richard web. whereupon after sureties there founden to appear before me, he went at large/ and coming up to London the day before he came at me, gate him to saint Catheryns to Robert Necton, to whom he had uttered of his books before/ and fell in a secret agreement with him what each of them should say therein when they were examined thereof. And when web thought he made the matter safe and sure there/ then came he boldly to me.  
But now was he shrewdly bygyled/ for yet ere he came at me, Necton fearing that web might hap to tell the truth thought he would himself be before him, and sent me word in great haste of webbies being with hymn and of all the communication that had been between them to. And so web unware thereof being examined on the morrow, first of divers other things answered● on his oath many a false answer as I very well perceived, saving the salve of his remembrance. For ever for the more part, he referred and restrained all to his remembrance. And when he had all done, & saw that I found no fault, nor nothing objected against his answers/ but so used myself as though I believed them, than he began to look piteously, upon me and said that he had ever herd, that who so were in his examination true & plain unto me, had been alway wont to find me good and favourable/ and said that for that cause he had himself showed me all that ever was in his stomach, as plainly as he knew it himself upon his faith to his remembrance. whereupon I showed him that if I found him true/ he should find me favourable/ but I feared that his answers were not all true. Sir quod he if ye find any one false, never be good lord unto me, nor never trust me after while ye live. Then for a say I thought of his so many lies to assay him with some one. And than I asked him again of one sir Nycholas, to whom he had answered me before that he never sold any such books but that the pressed had he said offered him such books to sell but he would none buy/ and that he had not seen the pressed this half year/ and the last time he saw him was at Brystow. And when he s●yll abode thereby upon his oath that this was true, and else would I should never believe him in any thing, nor show him any favour: them I asked him whither Brystow were in Holborn, & whither six weeks were half a year. And when he perceived by those questions that I knew of a certain assemble of theirs in Holborn within vi weeks before/ then he cast down the head and said he had forgot it. And when I laid unto him his perjury/ he said he swore for no ferther than he remembered. But when he could not make me believe that he had forgot it/ then down he fell upon his marydonies, & piteously prayed me to ●ogyue him that one lie, in which the devil he said aught him a shame. For in good faith sir there is not in all mine answers any one thing untrue but that. well web quoth I, in faith if that be true, then will I wink at this one and let it go for none. But now if there be any more lies, call them again bytyme, and I will then take your first tale for untold. Nay sir quoth he and ye find any one more/ than never believe me while ye live, but take all for lies that ever I tell you, and put me to open shame, and make me a sample to all the false perjured knaves in the realm. well said I by lykly head the remanant be well tried truths, ye would not else web make so large an offer. No in faith sir sayeth he, but if I were sure that all were true, I would not be so mad to say as I do, and forsake your favour so foolishly. well quoth I when saw ye Robert Necton then? Now by my soul sir as I have showed your lordship upon mine oath, I saw him not this half year to my remembrance. well quoth I remember yourself well/ ye know perdie where he dwelleth and he where you dwell/ and therefore remember whither ye were with him at saint Catheryns or he with you at Brystow, or that ye met by chance together any where else within these three or four months. Then he began to study a little and claw his head and rub his forehead and said, Nay in faith to my remembrance we met not together this half year/ and by my troth I can not now call to mind well where we met then neither. well web quoth I let that pass then, and tell me another thing. was yesterday half year a go? And were ye not yesterday with him at saint Catheryns'/ are ye not now shamefully forsworn. I wot well ye had not forgotten this. Then down went the head again into the bosom/ and yet he mombled because I said he was forsworn, as though I could not look into his breast to see whither he remembered it or no. He would have seemed not to remember such a point sin yesterday. But he made me therewith remember a like matter of a man of mine done seven year afore/ one Davy a Dutch man which had been married in England, and saying that his wife was deed and buried at worcester, two year before, while he was in his country, and giving her much praise and often telling us how sorry he was when he came home and found her deed, and how heavily ●e had made her bitter prayers at her grave/ went about while he waited upon me at Bruges in the kings business, to marry there an honest widows daughter. And so happened it that even upon the day when they should have been made handfast & insured together/ was I advertised fro London by my wives letter, that Davys wife was a live, and had been at my house to seek him. whereupon I called him before me and other, and red the letter to him. Marry master quoth he that letter saith me think that my wife is a live. ye best quod I that she is. Marry quoth he then I am well a paid, for she is a good woman. ye quoth I but why art thou such a naughty wretched man, that thou wouldst here wed another? didst not thou say she was deed? yes marry quoth he men of worcester told me so. why quoth I thou false best, didst not thou tell me and all my house that thou were at her grave thyself. yes marry master quod he so I was/ but I could not look in ye wot well.  
And as Davy thought himself safely defended against falsed, by that he could not look into his wives grave to see whether she were in it or no/ so thought web himself surely defended from any reproof of perjury, because I could not look into his breast to see whether he remembered the counsel so studyousely taken with Necton the day before or no.  
And in like manner hopeth Tyndale himself sure with his feeling faith against all re●argution of his false heresies, because he seeth that no man can look into his own breast but himself, and find what he feeleth written there.  
But now as Davy my man was bewrayed by my wives letter, and as web was bewrayed by Robert Necton so is Tyndale much more clearly bewrayed and his counsel uttered by almighty god himself. For where as Tyndale would have us ween, that he feeleth it written in his own heart with the very hand of god, that freres may lawfully wed nuns, god hath himself so plainly told the contrary to all the old holy saints this xu hundred year before, and by all the same space to all christian people beside, that now there is no good man in all christendom, but he feeleth and findeth written by god's hand in his own heart, that Tyndale feeleth not that fowl filthy heresy written in his heart by the hand of god. But if he feel it written there in deed as he saith he doth/ then he feeleth it scrybled and scraped in his heart by the crooked cloven claws of the devil.  
But yet if the feeling of all good men will not answer Tyndale/ but that he feeleth always still written with gods own hand in his own holy heart, that the faith of the catholic church is but an historical faith in any thing that aught is, and that it is full of heresies beside, and that therefore it is the church of heretyques, as he said in the end of his goodly solution to the first argument/ and that therefore they that go out from it, be as he there saith the very church. And then sith all they be by him the very church, all they must by his definition of the very church be needs very elects, and have by his own definition also the very feeling faith written in their hearts by gods own hand: I demand and ask of Tyndale therefore how it happeneth that his holy elects & faithful feeling folk gone out fro the catholic church, feel not all one faith/ but in great necessary points of faith feel each of them so contrary faith to other, that each of them feeleth other, and each of them calleth other false fumbling heretics/ and though the false shrews conspire and agree together against the true catholic church, yet for their contrary sects so vary between themself that Lutherans, anabaptists, Huyskyns, or Swynglianis with many sects more, would one bite of a nother's nose. And where as they complain that heretyques be punished here/ yet one sect there punisheth and killeth a noher among themself.  
And thus good readers ye may easily see, that their feeling faiths so dissonaunt among themself, so contraryouse and repugnant, be not written in their hearts as Tyndale saith by the hand of god, whose spirit is the inspyrer of unity, concord, and peace/ but is as I told you before, breathed and blown into the brothels breasts, by the spirit of discord, debate, and dissension the devil.  
And yet for the better perceiving of Tyndales doctrine concerning faith: consider once again good readers that he putteth two kinds of faith, an historical faith and a feeling faith, so that every person that hath any faith, it can not be by Tyndale but one of these two kynd●s, either historical faith or feeling faith. Now historical faith in the articles of faith, he putteth to be a believing of a necessary truth, attained and gotten by an outward mean, as by hearing the thing preached or reading it written/ and this faith he calleth faint and feeble, unable either to last and endure or to work well, and for conclusion the devils faith. The other kind of faith, that is to wit the feeling faith, he saith is that faith that god writeth himself in man's heart, and therefore that is a feeling faith. For he that hath it in his heart of gods own writing / he hath it so that it can never be w●shed out, but must of necessity dwell and abide with him, and can never fail but he shall feel it in his heart/ and that feeling thereof shall of necessity make him love god ever, & ever work well & never do deadly sy●ne, though he do never so many devilish deeds thorough the fruit of sin remaining in his flesh and breaking out at his frail members.  
Now good readers let us begin at his story faith/ and sith he saith it can neither endure nor work well: I would wit of him whether if the man die forth with as soon as he hath it, with a good purpose to be baptized & to work well if he lived thereto, in such mind as many martyrs died before their cristendome, should he be saved with such historical faith without any other ferther feeling faith or not. If he shall/ than may the historical faith be suf●ycyent for salvation/ ye & though it be so faint that it may fail yet may it percase last long & not fail/ & a man may with it work in prayer, fasting, and almouse deed, as well at the lest wise as Cornelius Centurio the paynim did without it. And then if he were in such place as he could not be baptized for lack of a minister, & so died with repentance of his sin and such historical faith, & such working without any farther feeling should he not be saved? If Tyndale say yes/ then saith he somewhat more for historical faith than will stand with his words before.  
Now if he say nay/ then sith the man can do no more for his part, but believe well and do well/ and the feeling faith that Tyndale speaketh of must be by god infounded, toward the getting whereof the man can himself saith Tyndale no more do then can the chylle in bygeting of his own father: I trow Tyndale shall have no man that well considereth the great good nature of god, give his credence in that point.  
Now if Tyndale say that in all such cases god doth unto him that believeth once with a story faith, infounde the feeling faith thereto, except the man have on his own part some other let and impediment of sin: then say I that thereby confesseth he that the man's endeavour inclining his understanning to the service of historical faith, hath yet at the lest wise somewhat more done in him toward the getting of the feeling faith: which only faith Tyndale calleth the right faith, than the child can do to the getting of his own father. And so lieth Tyndales tale in the dust.  
I say also that it should seem farther by Tyndale, that the historical faith once gotten/ god should not let of good congruence any more to infounde the feeling faith into him, not wystanding any other sins into which the man in going, carried forth in his frailty by the rage of concupiscence reigning and ruling his week sykly members, than he letteth to keep still without any failing at any time that feeling faith in all them that once have it, not withstanding all the horrible and abominable ●edes that ever they can do after. And so should it appear by this, that who so get ones the historical faith, hath alway forthwith the feeling faith also, though he were in the way toward the doing, ye or though he were doing in deed never so great horrible mischief, so that he fall thereto for frailty. And then shall we lack no feeling faithful wretches, but ye shall find enough.  
I say also that if to the historical faith gotten by man, with all other good circumstances that man by possibility may put unto it, god doth ever add and infounde the feeling faith himself, supplyenge by the congruence of his own goodness the inbecyllyte and lack of power upon the man's part toward attaining of his own salvation, being the great high gift of god so far above the proportion of man's natural state: then is I say lost and destroyed the effect of all Tyndales division between historical faith and feeling faith. For then every man that once hath well the tone, is by & by sure of the t'other/ without which his good works were toward the reward all wrought in vain/ which thing the liberal goodness of god could not of congruence for any lack upon his own part suffer.  
And thus for the tone half of his division that is to wit the historical faith, ye see now good readers to what point Tyndale is brought. And now consider that I speak here of historical faith, as of the faith in necessary points of the belief, attained & gotten by man/ by outward means only not that I think mine own self the historical faith so attained without the inward working of god, but because Tyndale so putteth it, therefore I thus reason it, to th'intent ye should thereby see what thing the troth would work upon Tyndals untrue position.  
I have also forborn in all this while to speak any thing of the sacrament of baptism, because that Tyndale here in all his matter of faith both historical faith and feeling faith, never maketh mention thereof/ as though the sacrament had no part in this play. By which obstinate silence, men may as well perceive what he meaneth, as though he spoke it out. But yet to make him somewhat say therein/ we shall in the second part of his division, that is to wit in the considering of his feeling faith, a little appose him therein.  
I ask him therefore at such time as in the beginning there turned together to the faith two or three thousand at once, as did at the preaching of saint Peter as appeareth in the second chapter of the Acts, 
A●●u●●●. 2●  and thereupon were chrystened/ what took they by their baptism? had they thereby beside the historical faith, gotten by the preaching any new kind of faith, or new feeling of their former faith infounded by god in their baptism or not? if not then as touching faith and belief/ the historical faith gotten by that outward mean, is as good and as full as the faith by god infounded inwardly. For I trust that Tyndale doth not think but that they had such faith as was able to serve them to salvation, all those that there truly turned, if they had forth with upon their baptism deceased.  
Now if Tyndale take the other part, & answer me that in the baptism they had the feeling faith infounded/ then followeth it I say that every man of age & discretion which duly cometh to baptism, hath the feeling faith to/ sith that he hath by baptism the right faith & the faith sufficient for salvation, which is by Tyndale none but the feeling faith. And then be thereby all they that come duly to baptism by Tyndals' tale elects everichone.  
And yet it seemeth ferther by Tyndals' tale & his master Martin's added unto it, that if he come to baptism undewly that is to wit walking outward/ yet in way toward adultery, sacrilege, or murder, so he bring with him belief, his baptism perfyteth all. For by tyndal's granting that god infoundeth snffycyent perfection of faith in the baptism, and affirming that after the perfayt faith had, the haver thereof may do such horrible deeds & for all that never fail in his perfayt feeling faith. I can not as I said before (considering that by Tyndals' tale such horrible deeds & such perfayt feeling faith may both abide together) perceive or see why such deeds being yet in the course toward the doing, should before let the perfection of faith to be by god infounded/ any more than they should after let the same to be kept & preserved, specially sith tyndal's own worshipful master Marten Luther, saith expressly that no christian man can be dampened but if he will not believe. For nothing he saith can damn him but only unbelief. For all other synnies he saith be supped up and swallowed all at once in the belief. And therefore who so come to baptism with only bare belief/ all his other sins as Luther calleth them, or his horrible deeds as Tindale calleth them, which he is by the frailty of hy● flesh about for all his baptism to do when he cometh h●me from the font, can nothing let any perfection to be by god infounded in his baptism. And then sith that perfec●yō mu●te be by Tyndale either the feeling faith, or else the feeling of the faith while there is by him none other faith sufficient: it followeth that every man which with historical faith cometh to baptism, is sure of the feeling faith, how many synnies so ever he be ab●nte of feebleness & ●rayl●ye to comytte after. Now be it if Tindale will for all this make any stycking I can not tell what, in them that of age & discretion come unto baptism, & say there may be som● let upon their part, by reason that they may be about to sin willingly and either of purpose or malice: let us consider and way well this matter, in them that come to baptism without any manner let.  
when the children are baptized, which kind of faith have they? The historical faith or the feeling faith? For faith have they must, or else they can never stand in god's favour and be saved/ witnessing saint Poule, that without faith it is impossible to please god. And therefore of troth faith they have. For though they come to the baptism & be received to the font, in the faith of their fathers and of the hole church that offereth them: yet with the baptism is there by god infounded into them his grate, the habit of faith hope & charity, wherewith they be made forth with perfect members of his mystical body the catholic church in earth, & thereby made inheritable unto that bless of heaven  
Now ask I therefore Tyndale, which kind of faith is this? the historical faith or the feeling f●yth? Not the historical I trow. For the children have not yet neither red nor herd many stories. wherefore it must needs be by tyndal's own tale the feeling faith. For more kinds of faith putteth he not but those twain, nor none sufficient for salvation but only that same one/ & sufficient must the faith be that the child receiveth in the baptism/ for else were the child never the rather saved, in case he died as many children do in the chrisom cloth or in the cradle.  
Peradventure Tindale guessing now where about I go will say that in the baptism god infoundeth into some the feeling faith, that is to say into his only elects, & in their hearts he writeth/ & that into some other he infoundeth it not and they be the reprobates/ & he will happily say that it is agreed by doctors of the church that god giveth in the baptism not like grace to every child. But unto this I answer, that though in the baptism either at the more goodness & more instant prayer of the fathers or godfathers of the ●hylde, or for some other cause seen unto his high wisdom, he give some one greater grace than to some other yet giveth he them all one kind of grace and one kind of faith, though they differ in degrees/ & as very a man is he that hath little stature, as he that hath a great, & a Pygmy as a giant. And Tyndale saith himself in his answer unto my dialogue that our wurkes must be as perfayt as the wurk●s of Cryst himself/ but faith he saith is sufficient though it be never so little.  
And beside this as I said before, god giveth unto e●ery child in the baptism the habyle of ●hat faith that 〈◊〉 sufficient for salvation/ but th●● is saith Ty●dale n●ne but the feeling faith/ ergo by Tyndale the feeling faith it is, whereof the habit god infoundeth into every child in the baptism.  
But yet sith I have proved that if the child have any faith, he hath by Tyndals' tale the feeling faith: ●ow will Tyndale peradventure say that the habit o●●ayth is no faith, because it is not actual faith which 〈◊〉 hath not, for lack of the use of reason/ for want whero●●e can not think upon nor actually consent unto any point of faith.  
But unto this I answer, that he may by the same reason say that the child hath no reasonable soul, because he can not think upon any reasoning/ and that therefore he lacketh the specyficall and kindly difference that divideth the kind of man from all the kinds of unreasonable brutish beasts, and then is the child no more man than a cal●e.  
Also if the habitual faith be no faith/ then is the child for all the baptism still out of the state of grace/ or else must Tyndale say that saint Poule said untrue, 
Hebrae. 11.  in tha● he told the hebrews that without faith it is impossible to please god.  
Besides this if habytuall faith be no faith at all for lack of actual thinking thereupon/ than dieth every man out of the faith that happeth to die in his sleep, had he never so good and great actual ●ayth when he went to bed. For no man shall be saved for the faith that he once had, but for the faith that he hath and in which h● dieth.  
Therefore the troth is, that the habytuall belief is in the child, very belief, though it be not actual believing and thinking upon the faith, as the habytuall reason is in the child very reason though it be not actual reasoning and making of ●yllogysmys/ and then it is as I say no story ●ayth/ & therefore by Tyndals' tale none other then very feeling faith, sith he putteth no more kinds of faith nor none other ●ayth for su●●ycyent, & gods work is so perfit that he infoundeth in the baptism none sufficient faith.  
How be it though this be the troth that the habytuall faith is very faith, and infounded by god with the sacrament of baptism into every child, and so that every child hath thereby the feeling faith if Tindale tell us true: yet to put out all argument, I shall shortly strain Tyndale to grant a farther thing, or else to forsake his master.  
For ye shall understand, that though the church tea●heth that the habytull faith is in the children sufficient/ yet cometh Tyndales master Martin Luther, and in his book that he maketh against the anabaptists, he teacheth by a long process that the young children ha●e ●●founded the very actual faith in deed. And therefore Tyndale that is his scholar, may not deny but that crystened children have very faith/ & then sith not historical for lack of reading of stories, they must needs have by Tyndales tale the feeling faith.  
Now y● will ask peradventure what then? and wherefore I go about to prove unto Tyndale that by his words the children in their baptism have by god the feeling faith infounded: Now shall I tell you that thing in few words lo.  
I have proved him this point good readers, for because that upon this must it clearly follow by Tyndales tale magry Tyndales ●eth, that the pope, and the cardynales, and the whole clergy, and all the christian people beside, be the very plain elects of god, and shallbe saved everichone as many as ever were crystened while they were children/ and that they can never sin deadly in all their lives though they do never so many horrible deeds, because as Tyndale saith by the feeling faith every one that hath it, is so borne of god and so hath his seed in him, that he may well do horrible deeds, but he can never do deadly sin after. And then doth he much a miss to rail and jest upon them ye wot well.  
Now can Tyndale never get out of this net while he leaveth, in which his foolish false feeling faith hath wrapped him/ but if he refuse not only the doctrine of the catholic church of christ, but of his own master Martyne antichrist also.  
And yet followeth it farther upon Tyndales tale also, that sith all the catholic church have by his tale the feeling faith, and therefore are all elects/ and than he saith that the electis having the feeling faith, be the very church: it clearly followeth I say by him, that the pope, & cardinals, and the clergy, and the whole christian people, that is to say the known catholic church, is the very church of christ/ and that himself and his fellows which he saith are departed out thereof as fro the church of heretyques, are not departed out, nor never can by this tale of his depart out of it in this world/ but ever hang still thereon as scabs and bocchies upon the body.  
And thus ye see good readers to what good purpose Tindale hath by his feeling faith suddenly brought his church so clean to the contrary of that he hath foolishly fumbled about all this while afore.  
And surely good christian reder, as for feeling faith if he mean thereby fast and sure belief without any mistrust or doubt of the contrary/ this feeling faith is in the folk of the catholic church and in none other. If he mean by the faith written in men's hearts, the faith whereof god worketh with man's will into the consent, or the faith by god infounded into man's heart: this writing of god in man's heart is in the catholic church and no where else. If he mean by his feeling faith, any further surety of the points that he believeth, then only on undoubted assent and adhesyon thereunto: then is it not faith/ but another kind of revelation and an infusion of knowledge beyond the kind and nature of the faith, & a thing no less happy or blessed, but less meritorious than faith. For god may● where it please him of his mere grace without any manner merit, give a creature the like degree of glory / and far greater to, than other shall with their merit and his grace attain. But yet such kind of revelation if he give it any man/ he giveth it only to such as are true members of his catholic church, and not repugnant unto the ●●tholyque faith. If he mean by his feeling faith any pleasure or comfort of hope, or any fervour and heat of charity: this feeling is the feeling of those other two virtues/ not the feeling of the bare belief to which the sect of Luthe● giveth all the glory, and which may be had and abide farm and fast in his own nature without either hope or charity, as by the words of saint Poule plain appeareth. 
1. Corinth. 13.  And this feeling both concerning hope and charity, is in the catholic church and in none other sect. But what so ever hope those heretyques have, or feeling of any effection/ it is but Tyndales false trust in stead of christian hope, and Tyndales false translated love in stead of christian charity. And such hopers and such lovers, ween they themself never so well in favour, and never so great with god, nor never so sure of salvation, are yet no less bygyled then are the beggars that dream they find great heaps of gold, and wax wondrous glad in their sleep weening themself awake.  
And so finally any manner feeling that aught is/ the good members of the catholic church hath, and no sect of all these heretics. But where as Tyndale sayeth he feeleth, that who so ever have his feeling faith may do many horrible deeds without any deadly sin/ and that who so ever sin once willingly, shall ne●er be after forgiven/ & that god hath no respect to any good works of men, but only to faith alone/ and that the free will of man can do no more in turning toward god, than the hatchet in turning toward the hewar/ nor that the man can do no more to the getting of faith, than the chyl● to the bygeting of his own father/ & where he feeleth the shrift is the invention of the devil, and sin to do any good works of penance, or to believe that any good work shall have reward in heaven, or to do any honour unto the blessed sacrament of the altar, any other then only to believe that it is a memoryalll of Crystes passion, and nothing else there in but only bare breed and wine & starch in stead of breed/ and where his feeling faith also feeleth, that folk should not care for holy days nor fasting days, nor honour any saints, nor pray for their father's souls, nor be bound to keep their vows, but that freres may when they will lawfully wed nuns: all these feelings and many such other like, the catholic church feeleth nothing/ nor no more doth no man but such as Tyndale is, that will not fa●le except he mend in time, for such unfaithful feeling to feel the fire of hell.  
And now good christian readers, ye see to what end Tyndales feeling faith is come/ with which divided from the historical faith, he saith he knoweth now which is the true scripture of god, because he feeleth it written in his heart by gods own hand/ and that he believeth it no longer now for the reaching of the catholic church, of whom he learned it first with a story faith.  
But yet ye see good readers that in all this process of his feeling faith, he answereth nothing to saint austin. For except he feel better then saint austin felt, else while saint austin confessed against the Manacheys, that he would not believe the gospel but for the authority of the church/ and found no fault in that saying when he was after bishop at the time of his retractations, it may become Tyndale well in that point to believe the catholic church still, as saint austin did.  
And on the other side, if he say that himself feeleth a better faith than saint austin felt, in the self thing tha● saint austin did then believe as well as Tyndale doth now: then dare I be bold to say that every man and woman that any feeling hath, can not fail to fell Tindale for a proud fumbling fool.  
And that he so is in deed/ ye shall yet the more fully feel by this. For if it were all true that he said/ yet hath his own words double proved, that the known catholic church is the very church of christ. first in that I have upon his own words proved you, that if he said true, it must thereof needs follow that all christian people being baptized in childhed, must have the feeling faith/ and then were they by his own definition the very church.  
secondly now consider well this good readers, that as he saith he believeth not now no longer which is the true scrypt●re, because the church so teacheth him, but because he feeleth it written in his heart by the spirit of god: so saith he that in like wise he believeth not now no longer any article of the faith because he findeth it in the books, but because he feeleth it written in his own heart by the spirit of god.  
Now saith Tindale not nay, but that as he came first to the knowledge of the articles of the faith by the preaching or reading of the books of the scripture/ so came he first to the knowledge which was the scripture by the teaching of the known catholic church.  
Now say I therefore, that granting him to say well and true in that he saith be believeth no longer now the articles of his faith for the books of the scripture, nor believeth the scripture to be the true scripture for the teaching of the catholic church/ yet followeth it for all that, that in likewise as that by the preaching or reading whereof he first came to the believing of the faith, is the very true scripture/ so is the known catholic church by which he first came into the believing of the scripture, and by whose teaching he took it and perceived it for holy writing and for the very scripture, the same church is in likewise I say the very true church, sith that orygynally the scripture is known as Tyndale himself confesseth by none other church/ as the faith is orygynally learned by none other scripture.  
And thus good christian readers to make an end of this book/ here ye clearly see that I have not only reproved you clearly Tyndals false feeling faith, and avoided his solution plainly, by which he would avoid that argument that clearly proveth the catholic known church to be the very church of christ, by that the true scripture is known by the same church and none other: but I have also yet once again clearly proved you the common known catholic church to be the very church of christ, by the ve●y words of Tyndale himself, with which he would prove the contrary. For this argument by which the known catholic church is proved the very church, which argument Tyndale hath all this while bumbled about to soil/ abideth in conclusion so strong and inevitable, that in the labouring to soil it Tyndale hath double confirmed it.  
And surely this is no marvel. For where as all heretics very well perceive, that by the plain promises of our saviour himself clearly contained in the gospel, his church can never be brought into any damnable error/ and that if it might, 
〈…〉  there were no surety neither of doctrine nor of the scripture self, & on the other side if they should grant the doctrine of the catholic church to be true, then were all their heresies drowned: for this cause lobeing driven to confess that the church can not fall into damnable error, they be driven to seek about for some other church, because the sure truth of the church damneth & destroyeth their heresies. And yet was there never any of them but that in going from the known catholic church to seek out another, he walked so wild about, that who so looked on and beheld him, would say the man were blind/ and each walketh a diverse way, & assigneth a diverse church, never one like another.  
And for ensample ye may consider twain/ Tyndale for one, whose church ye have hard all ready.  
The second shall be frere Barons, of whose church I will some what show you before I fynysshe this work.   
Thus endeth the vii book.   

¶ The viii book. in which is confuted doctor Barons church.  
FRere Barons maketh the title of his process concerning the church in this wise. What is holy chyrche● and who be thereof, and whereby men may know her.  
After this title of his process, he beginneth to play Tyndal's part/ first in flitting from the point, that is to wit from the whole catholic church unto the clergy alone, and after in like manner of railing. And surely notwithstanding that a man might wen●● Tyndale were in such fond scoffing peerless: yet doth frere Barons as far outrun him in ●●ylynge, as he draggeth behind him in reasoning/ wherein with Tyndale Barons can hold no foot, as downright as Tindale halteth therein.  
Frere Barons lashethe out against them, pride and pomp, and all their lives spent in whoredom/ as though there were not a good pressed in all the catholic church, till they leave the catholic faith and fall to heresies/ for than can they not be but honest though they would/ for than may freres wed whores and call them wyue●.  
But yet he jesteth on them ferther, because they were crowns and long gowns, a●d that bishops were white rochets. And when he hath likened them to bulls, asses, and apes, and the rochets to smocks: then he liketh much his merry meckes, and fareth as he were from a frere waxed a fydeler, and would at a tavern go get him a penny for a fit of mirth.  
How be it as for crowns, and gowns, and rochets, and vicious living, all these things he but playeth & sporteth with. But the things which he layeth earnestly to their charge, is that they give credence unto the old holy doctors of Christ's church, in the interpretation of Christ's word/ and that they meddle to see any good rule/ and that they vow chastity/ and for that they teach not the people that faith alone is sufficient, but that folk be bound to do good wurkes and penance for their evil if they will be saved/ and because they let not heretics alone but persecute them/ & because they be not persecuted themself. For these causes lo he saith they be as far unlike unto the church, as god is to the devil.  
But he forget●th in the mean while, how many good virtue 〈◊〉 priests and religious people be put out of their places and spoiled of their living, and beaten and sent out a begging, while heretics and apostatas with their wedded harlots in stead of their vowed chastity, keep their open avowde whoredom and maintain their incestuose lechery, wy●h the living that holy folk have dedicate unto god, for sustenance of such as should serve god in spiritual cleanness & vowed chastity. He knoweth well enough I warrant you that the clergy can never lack persecution, where heretics may grow/ nor soon after the temporalty neither, as it hath hitherto proved in every such country yet.  
How be it as for his taunts, his mocks, his mows, his jesting, and his railing/ I shall pass over & cumber you not much therewith, sith that such as delight therein and love to f●de themself thereupon, be not of so great honesty that I greatly long to content them/ and those that are good and virtuous can take no great pleasure I suppose, to ●e●e a ●●bawdouse railing of a lewd seditious heretyk●, vp●on all the clergy of christendom that will be no●● heretics, and call them bulls, apes, and asses, and abominable harlots and devils/ namely sith no good man doubteth, but though there be many among the clergy full bad, as hard it were to have it otherwise among so main a multitude, while Christ's own only twelve were not without a traitor/ yet are there again therein many right virtuous folk, and such as the whole world bysyde, fareth the better for their holy living and their devout prayer.  
And one thing am I sure also, that among those with whom this man is most angry, and for whom the more angry with all the remanant, that is to wit ●●●se before whom he was abjured of his heresies, and is now pe●●●red by relapse into them all again/ which 〈…〉 here have defended synnies that time, before one of the same judges, having licence at liberty without pee●●● to lay what he would, was therein confuted so clearly & so plainly, that all his evangelical brothers of his hundred 〈◊〉, would have been ashamed to see it among those his 〈◊〉. I say that there were some such, as if Barns 〈◊〉 in special lay to their charge, the vi 〈…〉 he layeth to them in his blasphemous 〈◊〉 among all the clergy in general/ all honest englishmen, that 〈◊〉 them would answer hastily for them, and tell him th' 〈…〉 belieth them. And I verily 〈◊〉, that some 〈◊〉 of them hath more honesty and clennel●s of living, and more very virtue in him/ then have all the heretics from the hy●●er end of England to the ferther end of almanner  
And therefore sith it is no ne● thing ● mad wild bull to run out a● rovers, and push at every man ●●ut he meeteth/ nor a rude ass to make his ●ude to 〈…〉 a fond ape to make mocks and mows/ nor an 〈◊〉 door to brawl, chide, and scold/ nor no ne●eltye the 〈◊〉 nor the devils limb to be false and lie: I will as I say leave of this fellows foolish apyshnesse, and all his 〈◊〉 exclamations, and all his busy ●ullynge, and all hy● abominable harlotry, and all his devilish ●yes why●h ●e spouteth and speweth out upon honest men/ and I shall g● to the ma●er self/ and concerning the purpose, I 〈◊〉 ●yrst rehearse you good readers his own very words, ●y which ye shall see what he calleth the ●hyrche/ & after shall I ●●●we you how falsely and how foolishly both he handfish himself therein. Lo good readers these are his ●●●ne 〈◊〉.  Barons. 
This word ecclesia, both in the new testament and the olde● 〈◊〉 ●aken oftentimes for the hole congregation, and the hole multitude of the people both good and bad/ as it is in the ●o●e of 〈◊〉 why have you brought the congregation or church of god into 〈◊〉? Also in another place: The king turned his face and b●●ssed the ●ole congregation or chy●che of Israel, and all the church of Israel stood. Ly●●●●yse in the new testament saint Paul to the Corinthians: I have sent unto you Tymothe, ●he which shall learn you my ways that be in christ jesus, as I do learn every where in all congregations. Also in another place: Do you despise the congregation of god, and sha●e them that h●●● not? In all these places and in many more, is it open that this greek word e●●s●s●a is taken for the hole congregation both of good and bad. wherefore this is not the church that we will greatly speak of.  More. 
But this is the church good readers, that he must speak 〈◊〉. For this is in earth the very church of god, though it have ●ad folk in it among the good/ as testify not only the parab●les of christ, where he likeneth the kingdom of 〈◊〉 unto the net, that out of the see gathereth & bringeth ●o land both good fish and bad, as the church here out this whole world gathered fyrble, and yet doth good men and bad both, and ●hall while it lasteth in earth, but also by the self same place that fre●e Barons bringeth in here himself, in which the Apostle writing to the Corinthies, 〈◊〉 the church in which were in deed and so frere Barons confesseth both good people and bad, saint Poule I say calleth the church of god/ saying, despise you the chy●che of god, and make them ashamed t●at have not of their owns And therefore then ●hold ●ere Barons bear him sel●e so high, that ●e should for them that are bad despise ●his church, in which therebe bysyde the bad many men ●ery good, and which church saint Poule therefore despyse● not, but called it the church of god, and rebuked such as did despise it as frere Barons doth here, that setteth it a side for nought as the chyr●h● that he will not he sayeth greatly vouchsafe to speak of. And wherefore good sir I pray you. To this question Barons answereth and saith.  Barons. 
For in this church are there jews and Sarasenies, mutthere●s and thiefs, bards and harlots, though we know them not.  More. 
As for jews and Sarasenies, there in frere Barons over seeth himself shamefully/ and showeth himself not to perceive and understand the self same places of scripture, tha● himself bringeth forth for his purpose. For neither in the place of Numery were the paynims any part of the church which the king there blessed/ but as the very plain text there telleth, which Barons hath himself rehearsed, only the church of Is●aell/ nor also the church which saint Poule wrote unto, among the Corynthies was not the paynims, whereof was plenty in the town/ nor the jews neither, whereof there were happily some at that time in that city/ but the christian people only, that were in that part gathered to ●ether into one church, a member and part of the whole catholic church gathered● in likewise in diverse other places of the world. For ●h●m only doth saint Poule there call the chyrch● For himself saith, Of those that be out of the church what have we to do 〈◊〉 therefore the●● is false, that this word ecclesia that is to say ch●●ch in english, do●h as frere Barons saith signify in th●se slates of scripture which himself allegeth, the congregation and flock of as well paynims as israelites, & of jews and Sarasenes, as christian folk.  
But yet will frere Baron● say● that though jews and Sarasenis be not of this church/ yet in this church a●● there murderers & thieves, & whores, and bawds, though they be not known. And therefore this is not the church that he will greatly vouchesau●e to speak of.  
O holy pharasye, in whose proud heart the poor p●blycanes be so great abomination, that he not only lifteth not any thing to re●●●●● them, but also for the●●●a●es fetteth at nought the whole company where many virtues people are among them/ and fareth by the ●hyrche of Cry●● as did his fellows the old pharisees with our saviour himself, whom they blasphemed and said, why eate●● he with publycanes and sinners.  
But yet must this great godly man, this high and holy heretic, hold himself content to knowledge at length this same comen known catholic church to be the very church when he hath all done/ while as himself hath here rehearsed you, this comen church of good and bad is the church that saint Poule himself calleth the church of god. which one place of saint paul of Barons own bringing forth, destroyeth utterly Barons whole purse, but if the church of god be not the church of christ, and except christ be not god.  
It is also to me great meruyle, wherefore frere Baron's should so highly disdain the known catholic church, because there be murderers and thiefs, and whores and bawds therein, which he saith men know not/ while there is neither Luther's church, nor Huyskyns church, nor Swynglius church, but that they have of all these people plenty, such as be known well enough. And yet those churches he neither jesteth nor raileth upon, as he doth upon the catholic church/ out of which all these churches are departed and cast out/ into some of which churches Barons is himself come now.  
And as for whores and bawds/ all the world knoweth I suppose that the head masters the archeheretykes of all their sects, are the chief whore masters being priests, monks, and fre●es, that have professed chastity/ and yet make harlots of professed ●unnes under the name of wives, and avow their lechery ●oldely● and have whole towns open bawds unto their bestely lechery. And sith frere Barons disdaineth not those churches, but rather doth himself allow their whoredom and bauderye: I see not why the good man should so solemnly look over the catholic church, and set it at so light for any whores and bawds that be therein. Of all whom, but if they be bysyde their whoredom and bawdry becomen evangelical sisters of these heretical sects/ there is I trust not one, but they knowledge their such ryving for sinful, & often have remorse thereof and many of them amend/ where as those artheheretyques frere Luther, and frere Huyskyn, with whose whoredom & bawdry frere Barons ●yndeth no fault, do not only nothing repent it, but also like abominable beasts boast it.  
How be it I am glad that frere Barons is waxen so holy now, that can not abide it to have the known catholic church called holy church, because there be not only good folk in it, but also evil folk to/ and that he will therefore find us out another church here in earth, that shall be only good folk/ and prove us that that is the very church, and that the known catholic church is not the very church, nor worthy that he should speak of.  
Ma●ke well good readers this point, that the church which Barons ●uste bring us, must be a church that hath there in neither murderer nor thief, nor whore, nor bawd/ and keep this point well in remembrance for the while, and then shall ye see afterward at length how well he will keep his promise, whereof he will for a while make us a proud face. For lo thus he describe his church.  Barns. 
But there is another church of the which saint Paul speaketh, you men l●●e your wives as christ hath loved the church, and hath given himself for her that he might santyfye her, and cleanse her in the fountain o● water thorough the word of life to make her to himself a glorious church with out spot or wrynkyll or any such thing, but if at she might ●e holy● and without blame. Here have you the very true church of christ, that is so pure and so clean without spot. But where by is she pure and clean? not by her own merits, nor by her own might, not by exterior array, not by gold nor ●●luer nor yet by pre●youse stones, neither by miters nor cros●estaues, nor by pillars nor pole-axes/ but where by them? by ●hry●te only which hath given himself ●●r that intent that he would make her clean. And therefore saith saint Paul: He gave himself that he might santyfye her, that he might cleanse her and make her to himself ● glorious church. Also in another place: you are washed, you are sanctified, you are justified in the name of jesus christ and in the spirit of god. See my lords bow the church is washed by christ and by his holy spirit/ and not by your blessings, not by your spiritual ornaments, nor by your spiritual holy water/ for these things can not help the holy church/ for she is holy in spirit and not in outward hypocrisy/ she is also cleansed by Crystes blessed blood, and not by out●warde dysgysynges. This doth saint A●st●yne well pro●e saying. Of christ is the church made ●ay●e/●yrste was she filthy in sins/ afterward by pardon and by grace w●s she made fair etc. Here saint austin saith that christ hath made his church fay●e, and that by his grace an● his pardon/ and not by your pardons, nor by your grace/ ●or this church stands by Crystes election and not by yours. And if christ have not washed you and chosen you, then be you none of this church, th●●gh you ride with a thousand spiritual horses, and have all the spiritual t●kens in earth. ●●r and if the son of god have delivered you, th●n are you tr●●ly delivered/ ye can not make by all your power and holiness, that we shall always ●ynde good ale or wine where there hangeth out a green sy●●e. And will you with your spiritual signs and tokens●●ake the church of god to follow you/ or by them assign out where the church shal●e? nay nay my lor●●s it will not be: but they that believe that Cr●●t hath washed them from their sins, and sty● saste unto his merits and to the promise made to them in him only/ they be the church of god, and so pure and so cle●e that it shall not be lawful, no not for Peter to say that they be unclean? but where they he jew or greek, king or subject, ●ar●e● or cardinal, buc●●● or bishop, talc arberer or cannelraker, free or bound, friar or wydler, ●u●ke or miller, if they believe i● Crystes word, and stick fast to his blessed promises, and trust only in the merits of his blessed bood, they be the holy church of god, ye and the very true church afore god/ and you with all your spiritual tokens, and with all your exter your cleanness, remain in your filthiness o● sin/ from the which all your blessings, all your holiness, can not cleanse you nor bring you into this church: boast, crack, blast, bless, curse till your holy eyes start out of your head, it will not help you/ for christ ch●useth his hyrche at ●is judgement and not at yours. The holy ghost is free, and inspireth where he will. He will neither be bounden to pope nor cardinal, or 〈◊〉 nor bishop, 〈◊〉 no● prior, deacon nor archdeken, parson nor vye●●t, to 〈◊〉 nor frere. Briefly come all the hole rabbyll of you together that call yourself the holy church (and exclude all other) ye and take son, mo●●, and starrys to help you, with all the ●rendes you have in h●uen and ●rth/ and yet shall you not be of holy church, except thate you have the spirit of christ, and be washed in his blessed blood. ●or the holy church of christ is nothing else, but that congregation that is sanctified in spirit, redeemed with Crystes blonde, and sticketh fast and sure alonely to the promises that be made therein.  More. 
Lo good christian readers, here have ye red his whole process together, wherein he defineth and describeth his church, with all his jesting corolaryes intermedeled between. I● which when he hath all done, except such things as the doctrine of the catholic chyr●he teacheth him, he hath not of his own one true word. And the t'other are brought in to no purpose, but only to plant in covertely some heresies between. And as for the places of scripture that he bringeth forth, and of saint austin also/ there is not of them all any one that doth any thing prove his purpose, that is to say that only such clean pure people as he speaketh of be the very church here in earth/ but the same places of scripture and of saint austin as ye shall see plainly proved, do make plain against him/ and clearly do they declare that the very church of christ here in earth, is the know●n catholic church of good and bad both together.  
For first as touching his goodly doctrine interlaced here and there by the way, that all manner of people be he pope or pedeler, king or cobbler, carter or cardinal, bucher or bishop, monk or miller, frere or fydeler, or any of the remanant that this fond frere fydeleth forth here by letters, after the rude rymelesse running of a scottish jest, be washed and made clean of their synnies by god, & his grace, & his pardon, and his precious blood, and not by their own merits, nor their own might, nor by exterior array, nor by gold and silver, nor by miters nor cross ●●aues, nor by bishops blessings, nor by their spiritual ornaments, nor by their spiritual holy wa●er. to what purpose concerning the matter serveth all this process? but to show his rial rhetoric/ and to contend with Tyndale in witless eloquence, that hath a like lewd jest or twain in his books las●hed out by letter, which frere Barons here fondly followeth and enforceth himself to exceed. For else himself knoweth well that the catholic church whose doctrine he now depraveth, taught him that lesson as much as is true thereof, though they gave it him not in a scottish jest by letter.  
For that no man can be cleansed of his sins but by the mighty mercy of god, and by the merits of Crystes blessed passion: this point this frere learned of the known catholic church which he now despiseth. But the heresies which he covertly joineth here therewith/ those lies ●o hath he learned of the devil sins he ran out of the church. For he would make as though the fire will of man which he meaneth here under the name of man's own might, did never no thing work at all toward the obtaining of pardon and remission of sin. And 〈◊〉 he thus meaneth/ appeareth plainly by the heresy of his master Marten Luther, and by his own frantyke process also made against free will. And that the devil hath taught him this lie appeareth plainly by many a plain place of scripture. As where our lord sayeth by the mouth of his holy prophet Isaiah: 
Esaic. 1.  Be ye washed, be clean, and take a way out of my sight the evil of your thoughts. And by the mouth also of the prophet Ezechyell: 
Ezechi. 18.  Cast of from you all your sins in which ye have transgressed, and make you a new heart and a new spirit/ and why wilt thou die o thou house of Israel? For I will not have the death of him that dieth saith your lord god, but return ye and live. Likewise saith the prophet david in the xxxiii. psalm: Decline from evil and do good. And again in the same psalm: 
Psal. 33.  Keep thy tongue from evil speech, and let thy lips speak no gy●e. And Sachary the prophet sayeth thus: 
zachar. 1.  Turn to me saith the lord god of hosts, 
Ecclesiastici. 17  and I will turn to you sayeth the lord god of hosts.  
It is written also in an other place: How great● is the mercy of our lord, and how great is his pardon toward those that turn them ●elfe to him. More over god saith by the mouth of saint Peter: God hath first unto you raised up his son, 
〈…〉  and hath sent him to bless you that every man should turn himself back from his wickedness. Saint Poule writeth also to the Colosseyes in this wise: 
〈◊〉 3.  Mortefye and slay your membres which are on the earth. And to the Phylippyans: 
〈◊〉. 2  with fear and trembling work your own salvation. And th'apostle saint jamys saith: 
〈◊〉. 4.  Draw ye near to god and he will drawn near to you/ make clean your hands o ye sinners, & purge your hearts o ye that are double of mind.  
More over where he saith men be not washed by their own merits/ the known catholic church taught him all this tale truly taken and well understanden, that is to say that no man can merit the first grace. 
〈…〉  For toward heaven man can do no thing, but if he be prevented by grace. For as Chyrste sayeth: no man cometh to me but if my father draw him/ nor no merit of man can be sufficient to deserve heaven, but the greatness of that reward cometh of gods mere liberal goodness, that ly●t to give so great a pyrce for so simple a thing. 
〈…〉  For as saint Poule saith, the passions of this life be not worthy the glory that is to come that shallbe showed in us.  
And the catholic church teceth that men should therefore put no proud trust in their merits, but stand in fere of their unperfect working, mingled alway for the more part with unperfeccyon and spo●tes/ sith that all the 
〈…〉  justice of man is as the scripture saith like a fowl spotted clout, 
〈…〉  and that the stars are not clean in the sight of god. And therefore the church teacheth every man to say as Chryst saith in the gospel, that do we never so well, 
Lu●●● 17  we have done but our duty/ and so give the thank of all the reward unto gods mere liberal goodness/ of whose gift & grace we have taken all the things that we work any good withal, might, wit, faculty, free will, body, soul, and all. For as saint Poule saith, what haste thou that thou haste not received? 
1. 〈◊〉 4.  And then if thou haste received/ what gloriest thou as though thou hadst not received it.  
These things lo doth the known catholic church teach, and in this wise do they interpret and declare the scriptures. And therefore if frere Barons had here meant none other thing/ he might very well have spared much of his gay golden process, being as it is impertynente to the principal purpose. But he meaneth therein that man may toward remission merit no thing at all/ nor that no merits of man shall have any reward in heaven, but that all together standeth in faith alone/ which lies he hath as I said learned of the devil alone.  
And that he thus meaneth himself well declareth by his mad poisoned process, that all only faith justfieth before god. 
2. Corinth. 5  And that the devil hath taught it him appeareth plainly, 
Hebrae. 6. &. 13.  by that the spirit of god hath inspired the contrary doctrine into his holy apostle Paul, 
Ephesi. 6.  which writeth unto the Romans, 
2 Pet●i. 1.  Not the hearers of the law are just before god, but the doers of the law shallbe justified. 
Apoca. 2.14.22  And our saviour himself saith in the gospel of saint Luke: 
Danie●is. 4.  Happy be they that here the word of god and keep it. 
Luce. 11.  And again also by the mouth of the holy and blessed apostle saint jamys: 
jaco. 1.  be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only deceiving yourself.  
Now where he saith that all the blessings and all the holy water, can not cleanse a man nor give him remission: this learned he of the known catholic church, as far forth as it is true. For none of all these neither the men nor the things can do any good of themself as of themself. For so saith saint Poule: 
2. Corinth. 3.  we be not sufficient of ourself as of ourself. For theffect and efficacy of all these things, cometh of god. But frere Barons meaneth that there is in all the blessings, and all the holy water, & holy breed, and so forth in all the ceremonies, and almost all the sacraments used in the known catholic church, none efficacy at all. which lie the devil and the devils limbs have taught him. For that he so meaneth we know by his masters and his fellows both, the archeretykes and brethren of his many sundry sects, which call the sacraments but only bare signs and tokens/ and by many places also of his own peevish processes, in which he maketh mocks and mows at the holy rites and ceremonies, and many of the sacraments used in the catholic church. And that the devil and the devils limbs have taught it him appeareth both by the catholic faith of all christian people this xu C. year, & by the plain words of holy scripture also. For/ that holy breed is far another manner thing than Barons taketh it for, 
1. Th●s● 4.  appeareth very well by the words of saint Paul, where he saith, every creature of god is good/ and nothing ought to be rejected and refused, that is received with thanks given. For it is sanctified by the word of god and prayer.  
And as concerning the holy sacraments/ of aneling thus writeth the blessed apostle saint james in his epistle: 
Iac●●i. 5.  Is there any man sick among you? let him send for the priests of the church, and let them pray for him, and let them anoint him with the oil in the name of our lord/ & the prayer of faith shall save the sick person, & our lord shall raise him up/ & if he be in sins they shall be forgiven him. And of confession he writeth in the same pistle immediately after in this wise: Confess ye your sins one to another, and pray ye one for another that ye may be healed. For much is th●●feruent prayer worth of a righteous man. 
〈…〉  For the sacrament of confirmation, it is written in the Acts of th'apostles: then they, that is to wit saint Peter and saint Iohn, laid their hands upon them, and they received the holy ghost. Moreover for the sacrament of matrimony, we have the plain and open words of saint paul to the Ephesies: 
〈◊〉. 5.  This is a gre● sacrament/ but I say in christ and in the church. And as for holy orders, that at the giving of them grace is infounded into the persons that receive them/ the first pistle to Timothe and the second both, do plainly prove. In the first pistle, saint Poule saith thus: despise not the grace which is in thee, that was given unto the by prophecy, with the laying of the hands of pres●hed upon the. And in the second pistle affirming the same/ he saith in this wise: 
2. Ti●●●●. 1.  I warn the to resuscitate and star up the grace, that is in the by the laying of my hands upon the.  
Now that I have good readers opened unto you the covert purpose of Barons devilish doctrine, planted in among his mocks and his jests/ & that there is nothing well and truly said in all his process, but that he hath learned of the plain comen teaching of the known catholic church: let us examine and consider now the church that he defineth us/ and than see whither the authorities that he allegeth here of saint Poule and saint Austaynte do prove us the church that he promiseth.  
The very true church is saith he, pure and clean with out spot or wrinkle.  
Also the very church is of god's election.  
Also they that believe that christ hath weshed them from their sins, and stykke fast unto his merits and to the promises made to them in him/ only they be the church of god, and so pure and so clean, that it shall not be lawful, no not for saint Peter to say that they be unclean. Also the holy church of christ is nothing else, but that congregation that is sanctified in spirit, redeemed with Crystes blood, and stykketh fast and sure all only to the promises that be made therein.  
Now see ye well good readers, that the church which Barons here assigneth, is all pure and clean/ and not only hath no thieves nor murderers, nor whores nor bawds therein/ but is also so pure that not saint Peter himself may be so bold to find any fault in any man of this congregation. But the causes why/ be because they be all of god's election, and all washed and made fair by god, and sanctified in spirit, and redeemed with Cristes' blood, and stick all fast only to the promises.  
Remember now good readers, that if frere Barons abide by his description: then is there no man in the very church but only at such time as he is so clean and pure without spot or wrynkell, that saint Peter may find no fa●te in him. And then be there in deed very few of it and very seld. And if any man be of it/ one self man is peradventure of the church and not of the church seven times in a day. For as the scripture saith, Seven times falleth the righteous man and shall arise again. And therefore this church can no man know to learn any thing of her which he may reckon himself the surer of, because this holy church teacheth it him.  
But thereto answereth Barons and saith, This church is a spiritual thing and no exterior thing, but invisible fro carnal yi●s 〈◊〉 faith is/ and her cleanness and pureness is afore Cry●te only, and not afore the world/ for the world hath no judgement nor knowledge of her.  
This is somewhat strange, that this church should be invisible, when it is made all of men and women, of which every one is visible. But thereto answereth also frere Barons and saith, I say not that they be invisible that be of the church, ●ut that holy church is herself invisible.  
Then ask we him what is holy church herself/ and to that answereth he nothing, but that holy church herself is a congregation of good christian men and good christian women, of which every one is visible, but the congregation of them is invisible.  
Very well declared, as though he would tell us that there were a woman that went invisible, and that he meant not that her hands, or her feet, or her head, or any part of her were invisible/ but all her parts being visible, herself were yet invisible. And as he might tell us, that of Paul's church we may well see the stones, but we can not see the chyrce. And then we may well tell him again, that he can not see the wood for the trees.  
To say that the whole thing is invisible, whereof he saith we may see every part, is a thing above me poor wit/ and I suppose above his to, to make his saying true.  
But peradventure he meaneth if he could speak, that though we may see it, we can not know it, because he saith it is spiritual. For I may see a man that is spiritual, & yet not know him for spiritual, as a man might have seen frere Barons when he came last into the land by the kings licence, and yet might happily not have known him, all though he had known him before, but have taken him for a monster/ he had so monstrousely dressed himself because he would be wondered on. And yet when he waxed after a shamed of him self, because he could no better answer for his heresies, and that his false foolish hope had failed him: he shaved his beard and went like a merchant of eels skynnies. And then a man might have met him, and upon his name rehearsed, might have known him for Robert Barons, and yet not know him for a frere. But if he had ones known him for a frere, he might then upon the sight have known him for an apostata.  
But as far forth as concerneth sight/ a spiritual man is no more invisible in this world, then is a carnal/ and therefore the spiritual church may be seen, though the spyrytualyte thereof be not seen, nor it upon the bare sight perceived and known for such.  
But I will not strive much with frere Barons for a word. The man is so sore bysyed about his rhetoric, that it is no marvel though he can not intend to speak reason nor true english neither/ as appeareth where he translateth learning for teaching, in his first declaration of this word ecclesia, rehearsing the words of saint paul to the Corynthies thus: I have sent unto you Tymothe, the which shall learn you my ways that be in christ jesus, as I do learn every where in all congregations. As though saint Poule had learned in every congregation where he came, and every man taught him and not he them. And though that some unlearned use this word learn for this word teach, with his accusative case set out, as Richard learneth Robert: yet saith no man but Barons, Richard learneth at Oxford, for richard teacheth at Oxford.  
But this is specially to be noted that he saith after, that this church/ can not err/ she cleaveth so fast to the word of god that is the verity. And for this cause he sayeth that saint Poule calleth her the pillar and ground of troth/ not that she is so sure of and in her own strength, but that she stykketh so fast to the living god and to his blessed word.  
Now good reder consider that no man sayeth that the church hath his surety of it self/ but of god and of his spirit ever abiding in it, according to the manifold promise of christ/ and therefore we need not frere Barons to tell us this tale.  
But consider now well again, that B●rns here granting that the very church can not err, but is as saint Poule saith the pillar and ground or foot of the pylare of troth because it cleaveth to god/ aught here to ponder that this word, 
1. Thes. 4.  the pillar, and this word the ground, or the foot of the pillar, do not barely signify strength in the standing by themself/ but they signify therewith the bearing up of some other thyngeꝭ, and that they be sure things for some other things to rest and lean upon/ as the ro●e of a church is borne up from ruin and falling, by the pilers upon which it resteth. And therefore these words of saint Poule signify not only that the church can not in it self fall into the ruin of damnable error, but also that like as the pillar is a sure thing for an house to rest upon, and the ground or foot of the pillar called in latin ba●is, which is the thing that Barons miss translateth here the ground, is the thing whereupon the pillar standeth sure/ so is the church the pillar and the foot or ground of troth, upon whose doctrine every man may rest and stand sure. And for this cause doth the holy doctors use and allege those words, to prove thereby not only that the church can not damnably err in it self, but also that therefore every man surely may and of duty must, give credence to the church and believe it, and lean thereunto as unto a sure pillar, and stand fast thereupon as upon a sure foot of a pillar that can not fail.  
Now good readers, if the very church which can not err, be a congregation invisible, and a company unknown/ though every one of them have the very truth in himself: yet if I can not know that church, I can not lean to that church as to a sure pillar of troth, sith I can not know it for the very church though I should happen on it.  
And thus ye see good readers that frere Barns unknown church, can not be the pillar nor the ground of troth for any man to rest upon/ but that the church which saint Poule as Barns himself rehearseth calleth the pillar and ground of troth, must be a known church. and therefore this text of saint Poule that he bringeth, plainly proveth against him.  
Now consider also good readers, that frere Barns in all this his description and definition of the church of Christ's elects, putteth only these properties. first that they be gods elects/ secondly that they be washed of god from their synnies/ and thirdly that they be redeemed by Christ's blood/ fourthly that they stick fast unto his merits only/ fyfethly that they stick only to god's promises made in Christ's blood/ syrtely that they be sanctified in spirit/ and finally for the seventh, that they be clean and pure without spot or wrinkle, so far forth that saint Peter himself may find no fault with them.  
Now first as for the election/ frere Barns playeth as Tyndale doth, walketh in the dark because he would not ●e caught. For he telleth not which election he speaketh of/ whither the eternal election by which god in his eternal providence foreseeing the end of every thing before the world was wrought, elected them for such causes as his own infante wisdom saw convenient, unto final salvation & endless felicity/ or else the election by which christ elected & chose them into his church here in this world, into which he chose & t●ke both final elects & final reprobates. For if he had expressed which election he meant/ he was afeard of the reprefe of some false follies that would have followed thereof.  
As for the second point is verified in every man of the common known catholic church, that came duly to christendom. For every such man is by the spirit of god washed clean i● baptism. And considering that almost all be chrystened shortly upon their birth/ they be in effect all washed clean by god with the w●ter & the word.  
And as touching the third/ all we that be of the common known church are redeemed in Christ's blood both good and bad. 
●●●an. 2  For christ hath by his death paid every man's ransom, & hath delivered us if we will, though many men there be that will not take the benefit thereof/ but some will needs lie still in prison, & some will needs thither again, as no man can keep some thiefs out of Newgate/ but let them be pardoned, and their fees paid, and themself set on free foot and delivered out: yet will they there for good company tarry lose with their fellows a while, and before the next sessions come sit as fast there again as ever they sat before.  
Now where he sayeth fourthly that all that are of the church of christ, do put their trust in the merits of christ only: if he mean that they do reckon that all their own merits can not bring them to heaven without the merits of christ, nor that they could nothing merit at all without the grace of god, nor do put no bo●● trust in their own merits, but of humility little esteem their own works that they have done be they never so good: that lesson hath he learned of the known catholic church. And if he mean that no man is of the church nor may be saved, that hath any trust of reward in heaven for his own merits and his works wrought with help of god's grace then meaneth he falsely, and putteth saint Poule out of the church of christ. For he said: I have fought a good battle, 
2. Timoth. 4.  and I have fulfilled my course, and I have kept my faith, and now remaineth there and is laid up for me a crown of justice, which our lord that is a righteous judge, shall yield me in that day. By which words it appeareth, that he had good trust in the m●rytes of the battle that he had fought, and the course that he had ●onne/ when he reckoned of justice to be rewarded and crowned therefore. Now if he mean ferther as h●s master Luther and his fellow Tyndale do, that no man is of the very church of christ, that will with help of grace go about to add any merits of his own unto the merits of christ: then meaneth he very mischievously to the minishing of christian mennies minds, toward the doing of good works/ and that lesson hath he learned of the devil contrary to the continual teaching of god, exhorting every man to good works with promise of reward in heaven therefore. For christ saith in the gospel of saint Matthew, 
Ma●●. 19  If thou wilt enter into the everlasting life, keep the commandments. And again in the gospel of saint Luke: 
Lu●●. 16  Make you friends with the wicked mammon, that when ye shall have need they may receive you into the everlasting tabernacles. Mo●e over saint Poule writeth unto the Corinthies in this wise: 
1 Corint●. ●.  Every ma● shall receive his reward according to his labour. And to the Ephesyes thus he saith: 
〈◊〉. 6.  what good deed so ever any man do, that same shall he receive of our lord be he bound or free. The same thing confirmeth he also in an other place in his epistle to the Galathyes, thus saying: 
●a●a. ●●  what so ever a man soweth, the same shall he rep●● For he that soweth in his flesh, shall of the flesh reap corruption. But who so soweth in the spirit, shall of the spirit reap everlasting life. Let us do good and faint not/ for when the time shall be come, we shall reap without fainting. In the Apocalyps thus sayeth god by the mouth of saint Iohn: 
Ap●●. 2.  I will give unto every one of you according to your deeds. And again in the xxii. chapter: 
Apoca. 22.  Mark I come shortly, and my reward is with me to reward every man after his deeds.  
Now to the fifth point, where he saith that they that are of the very church, do stick to the promises only: me thyn●e they that so do be strange faithful folk. For if he would say that every faithful person should stick to the promises of christ: I would w●ll hold with him/ for that lesson he learned of the known catholic church. But to say that y● no man is of the very church of christ, that sticketh fast unto any things bysyde the promises/ is a lesson learned of the devil. For so should we stick to promises only, and not only fall from all good works, for which many promises of god are made/ but over that should our ●ayth fail us, and fall away from all other points that be no promises, and yet must be believed of them that will be saved. For the equality & unity of godhead in the three eternal and almighty persons, is no promise / and yet we must if we will be saved stick fast unto the belief thereof. ye and hell is also no promise of salvation, and yet must we stick fastly to christ in the belief of his word, wherewith he told us there is one, but if a man list for lack of believing that there is one, find it out by the feeling when he falleth in it.  
Now touching the point that he saith every man of the very church is sanctified in spirit/ that is verified once in every man of the known catholic church that is chrystened in his chyldehed. But Barons seemeth to mean that they be no longer of the church, then while they be holy in spirit/ and that so holy, so clean, & so pure, without spot or wrinkle, as appeareth by the last point, that saint Peter himself could find no fault in them.  
But truly as all the other points requisite unto the very church, be verified upon every man of the known catholic church: so the continual being sanctified is not verified in every man. And the precise cleanness and purity without spot or wrinkle, is here in earth I ween at full age not fully verified in any man.  
Now see ye well good readers, that if none be of the very church, but they that have these two latter points/ that is to say that he so sanctified in spirit, that they be so ● clean and pure without spot and wrinkle, that saint Peter can find no fault in them: ●hen is first frere Luther out of the church/ and frere Huyskyn both, for breaking of their vows with incestuous wedding/ and frere Ba●us also for his perjury falling in relapse of heresy, and now running at rovers in apostasy.  
But now good readers let us resort unto the authorities of the scripture and of saint austin, which frere Barns bringeth forth/ and consider whither that any of them all prove a●y such church at all here in earth, as frere Barns appointeth us, see sanctified in spirit that it hath neither spot nor wrinkle.  
The first text is the words of saint Paul in the second chapter of his pistle to the Ephesyes, where he saith you men love your wives as christ hath loved the church, and ●ath given himself for her that he might sanc●yfye ●e● and cle●se her in the so●●teyne of water thorough the word of life, to make her to hy● self a glorious church with out spot or wrycle, or any such thing but that she might be holy and with out blame.  
what thing findeth frere Barons for his purpose in these words? saint Poule here exhorteth men to love their wives, so tenderly that they should be of the mind, that to bring them to heaven they could find in their hearts to die for them, as christ hath died for the christian people to bring them to heaven/ & that men, to that intent that they may bring their wives to the glorious bliss of heaven, should here bring them well up in faith, in hope, and charity, and in good works, like as god hath washed his church of all christian people, and hath cleansed them by the water in the word of life, that is to wit by the sacrament of baptism.  
Thus hath god given himself to the death for his church of all christian people. to th'intent that the sacrament of baptism might wash them all and cleanse them from all their sins. For without his death the sacrament should not have had any efficacy to cleanse them. But why hath he by the sacrament of baptism, cleansed his church of all christian people/ and by the infusion of his grace in faith, hope, and charity, sanctified them in spirit? surely (as saint Poule saith) to th'intent that he might make her to himself a glorious church without spot or wrinkle/ that is to wit, that they might and should persever in virtue, and if they fall then rise again by penance/ and thus in good works of charity and worthy fruits of penance, so live here with his grace, that he might after this world bring them to his glory and there have them a glorious church first in soul and after in body to/ where they shall neither have spot nor wrinkle neither of sin great nor small, nor spot of corruption in the body, nor wryntle of ●yspleasure in the soul, but the tone incorruptyble, the other impassable, both twain in joy and glorious bliss with god eternal.  
And this meant there sent Poule/ not that the church shall here in this world endure and continue without spot or wrinkle of sin, so clean and pure that saint Peter could find no fault therein/ and that as soon as a man had either spot or wrinkle, he were by and by none of the church of christ in earth. For this I wot well, that saint Poule himself called the congregations to which he wrote the churches of christ, and calleth them sanctified in spirit/ and yet maketh them not sure that they shall continue holy/ nor reckoneth them not so clean & pure, but that he feareth for them and biddeth them beware of wa●ynge worse, and teacheth them the ways whereby they may wax better/ and in many of them findeth many faults to, and biddeth them amend them, and findeth spots and wrinkles, and would have them washed and smoothed out.  
will ye see good readers that this is true. Consider well the first pistle of saint Poule unto the Corynthies, out of the sixth chapter, of which epistle frere Barons allegeth here these words: ye be washed, ye be sanctified, ye be justified in the name of our lord sons jesus Cri●t●, and in the spirit of our god. Doth the apostle though he call them washed and sanctified and i●styfyed in the spirit of god, and though he call them the church of god as he calleth them in the beginning of the pistle: doth he mean that by reason of the ablution and justification, with which each of them was once washed from his sins, and justified in his spirit by the spirit of god, infoundy●ge the grace of fay●●, hope, and charity, with the sacrament of baptism, and where by they were sanctified as persons specially dedicated unto gods holy service, & with the indelyble character & badge of baptism received ●nto his livery and his holy household the church: doth saint Poule I say mean therefore, that as they were all still of the church, 
Exodi. 24.  and by that respect still sanctified and by profession dedicated unto god, as the scripture calleth the pressed sanctified unto god by his dedication and special appointment unto his holy ministration in the ●emple with the holy oil upon him, though the man were not alway holy and virtuous in his own heart: did I say saint Poule mean therefore that all those whole christian people as they were in deed of the church, by their continued profession of the christian faith, were also just and religious all the whole company in heart, and still continued in god's fersner favour by very true christian living/ and that so pure and so clean without spot or wrinkle, that saint Peter might find no fault among them?  
I can not tell you what saint Peter might have done. But well I wot saint Poule did find more faults than one among them, and great spots & wrinkles, as himself writeth at length thorough almost●euery chapter of that pistle, and the second pistle to. In which pistles as he commendeth them for many things/ so doth he for many things dispraise them and reprove them. And as he saith there to the church of god, that is to wit to the christian people of Corynthies: ye be washed, and ye be cleansed, and ye be sanctified and holy, and ye be rich in jesus christ, in all things, in every word, and in all knowledge, as the wyttenes of christ is confirmed in you, so that ye might lack nothing in any grace abiding or looking for the revelation of our lord jesus christ, which shall confirm you unto the end without crime in the day of the coming of our lord jesus christ: now like as he saith there unto the church, ye be such/ so saith he even there also to the same church: ye be fallen into division, and ye be in debate and discord, in strife and in contency ●n, and ye do nought and sew one another before paynim judges, and ye do one another wrong, fraud, and injury, and you use fornication among you, and some of you such as is not herd of among the paynims, and other of you regard it not nor nothing do for the reformation and amendment 
1. C●●n●●. 5  thereof/ and when ye come together to your housel, ye keep not a reverent order, nor abide till you come all together, nor the rich is not content to sit and eat with the poor and put their dishes together in comen, but the rich man will eat of his own/ thus ye despise the church of god, and shame the poor folk that have not of their own/ and with such proud uncharitable manner and such unreverent fashion, using yourself at your assembly to god's board, ye show yourself not to regard the body of our lord, no more in a manner than ye do the comen material meat/ for which cause god taketh vengeance upon you/ for many of you fall sick therefore, & many of you die also.  
Lo good readers these things both of the tone sort and of the t'other, doth saint Poule write unto the church, in the self same pistles out of which frere Barons here bringeth forth his authorities. And then when he writeth unto one self church and one self congregation, ye be very good and ye be very nought: what meaneth he but that of the same one church and one company, some be good and some be nought/ though the whole church and congregation be called good and holy, because there is none holy company in e●the but it, & also for the holiness of the good folk that are there in/ though there be bad among them/ as Christ's company was a good company, and yet was there a traitor among them, and therefore himself said to his apostles: Now be you clean/ but yet all you be not clean/ and specially is it holy because of the holy head thereof our holy saviour himself, whose mystical body is the 
job. 13.  whole known catholic church/ in which for all the cure done upon it in the baptism, yet are there many sykke members by many great new sins and many old many times cured again by penance in their lives/ and of such as either perceiver in the grace of their baptism vndefoyled●, and not rejected by any deadly sin, or after deadly sins committed, be finally restored unto g●ace again by the blessed sacrament of penance/ of those sorts ordinarily doth and shall our saviour (the sore cankered members that will not in conclusion be cured, left unto the rot and shaken into the fire) bring forth and make perfit his glorious church, and present it to his father bright and smooth, without any spot or wrinkle to live and endure in heaven/ but never shall his church be clearly without spot or wrinkle, while it wandereth in this wretched world. And the church in earth here must frere Barons speak of ye wot well.  
And therefore good christian readers, here may ye plainly see that saint Poule in the places that frere Barons hath brought us forth, meaneth no such chyrthe as frere Barons would here make us ween to beguile us with/ but calling them both good and bad, and meaning some of them good and some bad, & yet none without spot or wrinkle, meant none other church of any other manner, then only the comen known cathlyque church/ of which those churches to whom saint Poule wrote were very true parts, and of the nature and manner of the whole church. For as those particular churches were known churches: even so is the whole church a known church. And as they were congregations, not of only good folk but of both good and bad together: so is the whole catholic church a congregation, not of only good but of good and bad together/ for which whole catholic church god hath & ever shall according to his manifold promises, so provide that the doctrine thereof shall never be any damnable error/ but as christ came himself to begin it, 
johan. 16  and sent his apostles diverse in diverse parts to instruct it, and they set other under them, as saint Poule set Timothe: so god hath from age to age sent into every good christian country good & holy virtuous men, as hath appeared by their godly living and holy writing and manifold myracles● which god hath wrought and worketh by them/ and with which wonderful miracles god beareth witness for them/ and with his own grace and assistance which he promised should ever abide, 
Matth. 28  worketh with the toward wills of the people of his known catholic church, to the consenting and agreement of the same doctrine/ so that the catholic church is the house of god, and the pillar & sure ground of troth, that every singular person in the clering of all dowtes concerning the sure avoiding of all damnable errors, may stand and lean unto.  
And if any person depart from the faith of this church, or that any pertyculare church fall fro the doctrine of the whole catholic church, and so depart therefro: yet remaineth the remanant still the very full catholic church, and is the same house of god, the same pillar, and the same ground of troth, that it was before while the t'other was a part thereof/ like as if a man did cut of a rotten joint of his body, ye and many rotten joints, yet were the ramanaunt the self same man still, and the self same soul should still remains whole in the remanant.  
Nor not every man that is in deadly sin is thereby forthwith out of the church of christ in earth, till he either depart out or be put out/ no more than a secret traitor in a kings household is by his secret treason straight out of his chequer roll/ nor judas himself after his conceived treason though he were out of Crystes favour, was not yet out of his household, till his master checked him and bode him walk like a traitor about his treason & so did put him out, as the catholic church of Criste putteth out such heretics and such Judases now.  
And thus good christian readers here have ye plainly seen, that all the scriptures that frere Barons bringeth, make even plain against him, and plainly prove the known catholic church to be the very ●hyrche of christ, and in this world none holy church resyde.  
Now good christian readers, where as frere Barns allegeth us divers places of saint austin and some other doctors for this purpose: though I let them pass by the way, and answer them not forthwith/ yet shall they not pass unanswered ere we part. But for as much as he laboureth with interlacing of his heresies and his railing, to make such confusion in the matter, that men should not by his will well perceive the point: I shall therefore soil you those allegations in such con●enyent place, as may give the matter most light.  
And first ye shall consider that he will now tell you where this church is that he assigneth, of only so pure & clean persons without spot or wrinkle that saint Peter may find no fault with them. Lo thus he saith.  Barons. 
This is the very true church that is scattered thorough all the world/ and is neither bound to person by reason of dignity nor yet to any place by the reason of feigned holiness/ but she is a free thing thorough all the world as S. austin doth witness in these words, The holy church are we but I do not say we as one should say we that be here alone that here me now but as many as be here faithful christened men in this church, that is to say, in this ●ytye, as many as be in this region, as many as be beyond the see, as many as be in all the hole whorlde (for from the ryving of the son till the going down is the name of god praised) so is the holy church o●re mother etc. Here have you plainly/ that the holy church is the congregation of faithful men where so ever they be in the world. And neither the pop● nor yet his cardinals be more this church or of this church than the poreste man in earth/ for this church standeth alonely in the spiritual faith of christ jesus, and not in dignities ner honours of the world/ as Li●anus doth declare in these words. The church doth not stand in men by reason of the spiritual power or secular dignity. For many princes and many pope's and other inferior persons, have swerved from the faith. Wherefore that church doth stand in those persons in whom is the true knowledge and confession of faith and of verity etc. O my lords what will you say to Lira? I have great marvel that you burn him not. It is high time to condemn him for an heretic/ for he speaketh against your law xxiiij q. 1. Quodcumque. Where as your gloze declareth, that god suffered not the room church for to err/ and Lira saith plain that many pope's have erred. And also that the church standeth not in dignity, but in confession of christ and of his blessed verity.  More. 
In all this lo●ge tale good readers frere Barns telleth us no more but the church is free, because himself loveth liberty/ and the church is bound to no man because himself would be bound to n● priors/ nor the church is bound to no place because such apostatas would be bound to no cloister but have all the world to roil in.  
Then saith he by the authority of saint austin that the church is not the christian people of any one country alone and who said it was.  
Then he showeth that Liranus saith the church standeth not in spiritual power or secular dignity, but in confession of christ and his blessed verity/ and no man findeth fault with Lyre for so saying/ but we find fault with frere Barons for teaching false heresies in stead of Christ's blessed verity. Now in telling us where the church is/ he telleth us it is in the world/ and truth it is the very church is in the world but he proveth us not yet that his own church is in the world for he proveth no such church at all.  
For consider good readers, that yet for his purpose is there never one word brought out. For yet hath he brought us no proof of any church here in earth, whereof the people living here in earth and being the membres and parts thereof, be so pure and so clean without spot or wrinkle, that saint Peter may find no fault with them. For this point hath he yet brought us no proof/ but of all that he hath yet brought, part proveth nothing for him, and the more part proveth clear against him.  
And now shall ye see by his own words following, that as gay a face as he made before with the scriptures that he brought forth: yet himself perceived all the while well enough, that all that he hath hitherto said proveth in that point whereupon all dependeth, no thing at all for his purpose. For lo now thus goth he forward and findeth that fault with him false.  Barons. 
But now here willbe objected, that I fain such a church as our Logicyens do intentionem secundam/ that is a thing that is no where. where shall a man find a church that i● so pure and so clean, that hath neither spot nor wrynkle in her, and that is without all sin, saying that all men must of truth say, forgive us our trespass. And if any man say (be he never so righteous) that he hath no sin, than is he a liar and there is no verity in him.  More. 
Lo good readers, here may ye clearly see, that himself perceiveth all that he hath said hitherto able to serve of nought/ but that for all the scriptures that he hath laid. to prove that there is such a church/ and for all the words of saint austin, by which he would have seemed both to prove that there is such a fair pure church and a clean, and also that saint austin telleth us where it is/ that is to wit not all in any one place, but spread abroad in all places of the world, where faithful people are inhabited: yet for all this frere Barns here confesseth now that all this serveth of no thing but his purpose that there is in earth any such church, remaineth still so farforth unproved, that he seeth well himself that men may yet object unto him that there is no such pure and clean church in earth/ but that for any thing that he hath brought forth to prove it● he seemeth of his own brain to fain it, as logiciens fain (saith he) the second intention. which is he saith no where.  
And therefore good readers, cutting of now for nought all that he hath said before, as he taketh it for nought himself: let us see what he will now say better upon this better advisement. For now will he not fail of likelihood to prove us plainly some people some where so pure and so clean without spot or wrinkle of sin, that saint Peter can find no fault in them. Lo thus good readers he proveth it.  Barons. 
To this I answer that this holy church hath sin in her, and yet is she pure and clean. Mark saint Poulys' words. christ hath given himself for her that he might make her glorious/ so that the clennes●e of this holy church is the mercy of good toward her thorough christ, for whose sake he layeth nothing to her charge/ ye and if any other person would/ he is ready to give h●r his cleanness, and to let her by faith claim of right his puernesse for her own. For by●wene them all is comen, as between man and wife. So that if the church look on her own merits and of her own works/ she is full of sin and must needs say, dimit mihi debita. The which she needed not to say if she had none. But if she refer her self unto the merits of her blessed husband christ jesus, and to the cleanness that she ha●h in his blood/ than is she without spot●e. For by the reason that she sticketh ●y faith so fast unto her husband christ, and doth abide in confession of her sin, and requireth mercy fo● them/ therefore is there no thing laid to her charge/ but all thing is forgiven her.  
And therefore saith saint Poule, there is no damnation unto them that be in christ Iesu. And that this may be the plainer: I will bring you saint austins words the which was vexed of the donatists with this same reason that is laid against me. His words be these. The hole church saith, for give us our sins, wherefore she hath spots and wrinkles. But by knowledging of them, her wrinkles be extended and stretched out/ by knowledging her spots are washed away. The church abideth in prayer that she might be cleansed by knowledging of her sins. As long as we leave her, so standeth it/ and when we shall depart out of this body, all such things be forgiven to every man/ wherefore by this mean the church of god is in the treasures of god without spot and wrinkles. And therefore here do we not live without sin/ but we shall pass from hens without sin etc. Here have you clearly that the church of god is cleansed and purified by Crist for knowledging of her sins/ and not by her own pureness. Wherefore such a church there must needs be, though that the carnal eye can not see her, nor fleshly reason can judge of her. Wherefore we believe this article by faith, that holy church is a communion or fellowship of holy men/ and know it not by saying or feeling, as we do the fellyshyppe of drapers or mercers/ for than were it none article of the faith. And it is play●● that all your exterior signs, with all your holy ornaments, as your h●●y miters, your holy cross staves, your holy py●leas and pollaxes, your holy red gloves, your holy ouches, and your holy rings, your holy anointed fingers, your holy vestiments, your holy chalices, and your holy golden shows, ye take also to he●pe you saint Thomas of Canterberis holy show, with all the holy b●ty●●● h●●y monks/ and all these together can not make one crumb of holiness in you, nor help you one prick forward, that you may be within this church. For if 〈◊〉 things could help, than were it no mystery to make an ass to be of the church of god. But our holy mother the church hath another holiness, that cometh from god the father thorough the sweat blood of his blessed son jesus christ, in whom is all her confydens and trust. Unto whom she sticketh only by ste●faste faith/ by whose pureness she is also pure, in that that she doth confess her vnc●enes/ for she believeth steadfastly that she hath an advocate for her sin to the father of heaven which is christ jesus. And he is the satisfaction for her sins. And he of his mercy and not of her merits, hath cho●sen her for to be his. And because she is his, therefore must she be clean so long as she abideth in him.  
This is will declared in saint Iohn where our master christ is compared to the vine, and all the members of holy church to the branches/ that as the branches, can bring forth not fruit of themself/ so can holy church of herself bring forth no goodness except she remain in christ by perfit faith. This is well proved by your own law whose words be these/ therefore is the church holy/ because she believeth right wisely in god etc. Here you not the cause wherefore the church is holy? because she believeth ryht wisely in god/ that is she believeth in nothing but in him/ and she believeth nor heareth no word but his/ as our master Criste beareth witness: my sheep hear my voice, and another man's voice do they not know/ also in another place/ he that is of god, heareth the words of god: how cometh this that the church of god hath so sure a judgement, that she knoweth the voice of christ from other voices? and can not err in her judgement? Because that christ hath chosen her/ and because she is serried of god as ●ur master christ saith/ and by c●use she hath (as saint Iohn saith) the inward ointment of god, that teacheth his all manner of verity so that she can not err. But why can she not err? because she may do what she will? Because that all thing that she doth is well done? because she may ma●e n●we ru●es and new laws at her pleasure? Because she may in●ent a new service o● god that is not in scripture at her will? Nay nay my lords. For she is but a woman and must be ruled by her husband/ ye she is but a sh●pe and m●s●e hear the voice of her shepherd. And so long as she doth, so long can she not err, because the voice of her shepherd can not be false.  
This may be proved by your own law, ●h●se words be these/ the whole chyrc●e can not err. Also in another place/ the congregation of faithful men must needs be which also can not err etc. These words be plain, what church it is that can not err, that is the congregation of faithful men that be gathered in Cristes, name which have Cristis spryt, which have the holy ointment of god, which abide ●este by Crystes word, and hear no●e other manny● voice but his.  More. 
Here have I good readers rehearsed you the full declaration of his purpose together/ which as it were well done that no man should vouchsafe to read over ones, so were it good that who so would needs read it once, should indifferently without partiality read it and advise it often. For in good faith I doubt it not but he that so would, had he no learning at all, and were witted but right meanly. yet if he look not all to the scoffing and suffer himself to be carried away with the fellows fond railing from the consideration of the matter/ he could not but perceive such folly and such falsehood, and such repugnance and contradiction in it self, that he should never after need any man else to answer him but himself. But then if the reader be learned, and look well farther upon the authorities that this man layeth us forth for his purpose: he shall find them handled in such wise, that he shall think y● more than pity that either holy scripture or any good book else should ever come in such a false fool's hands.  
For letting the authorities stand for the while/ what hath he told us in all this long tale? His purpose was ye wo●e well, to prove us that here in ●rth there is and must needs be a church and a congregation of people, so clean and so pure without any spot or wrinkle of sin, that saint Peter may find no fault in any of them. And how hath he now proved it? Take first out of his tale his pleasant scoffing upon miters, and cross staves, pillars, pole-axes, and read gloves, ouches, and tynges, and then his railing upon the holy ointment used in the consecration of anointed persons, and upon vestiments/ and chalices, and mocking of saint Thomas with jesting upon his show, whose show was I am sure never half so black as is frere Barons soul in sin, but if it be by penance washed any whiter sins he made his book: take out I say of his tale all this goodly garnishing, and how he hath proved us beside that there is and must needs be in earth a church and congregation of people, so pure and so clean without spot or wrinkle of sin, that saint Peter may find no fault in any of them/ doth he prove it by any other then by rydeles that he had red in Tyndales book, of sinning and yet not sinning, and erring and yet no● erring. And yet hath he not the wytt● when he saw the matter in the other man's book before him/ yet had he no● I say the wit well to perceive it, and to do so much as to put some distinction between deadly sin and venial as Tyndale doth, and between damnable error and error that letteth not from salvation as Tyndale doth also. In which things though Tyndale hath shamefully overseen himself, and deadly sinned and damnably erred/ albe it he so far misseth the mark that he marreth all his matter: yet at the lest wise he showed himself that he saw it/ where as Barons had not as it seemeth so much wit as to perceive it, when Tyndale had in his book showed it him.  
How be it perduenture I blame his with causeless. For I ween the man perceived those points well enough. But for because he saw that Tyndale when he brought them in, did thereby so intryke himself in the matter, and meshed himself in the net of his own folly, that he could never well wind out: frere Barons thought it best therefore to take a ●urer way, and rid himself with only Tyndales rydelles of sinning and yet not sinning, and erring and yet not erring, and leave out those other points / and walk so much more in the dark than Tyndale doth, though Tyndale keep himself in the dark more then meetly well.  
For now to prove us all his whole purpose, that there is in earth here a church and a company that be clean without any spot or wrinkle of sin, & that so clean that saint Peter may find no fault/ objecting against himself the thing that he seeth well every man would, that is to wit that both by comen experience of the people, and by the plain word of god the contrary of his position and purpose appeareth evidently true: he answereth in conclusion thereunto, that the congregation which he calleth the church ever hath spots and wrinkles of sin, and that yet it is for all that very pure and clean, because that for her abiding in the knowledging of her spots and wrinkles of her sins, and asking mercy for them, god layeth nothing of them to her charge.  
Consider now for god's sake good readers, how perfitly frere Barons hath answered you, and how perfitly he hath proved his purpose. He promised us you wot well to prove us a church pure and clean without spot or wrinkle/ and now he bringeth us a church pure and clean as he saith with spots and wrinkles both. Is there any man so bore witted, that can so be satisfied and think himself sufficiently answered thus?  
I had as live he told us that if there were a woman with a crooked nose, as long as no man tell her of it so long her nose stood right. For by him though god lay never her spots nor her wrinkles to her charge, but is always washing her spots, and alway stretching out her wrinkle: yet he confesseth that for all the washing and all the stretching, as long as she liveth she is never without them. And his promise ye wot well was, to prove us a church not pure and clean with them, but pure and clean without them.  
Now where he said the church is so without spot, that saint Peter might find no fault in her, he beguiled me. For I had went she should have had none for saint Peter to spy. And I marvel what he meant by the word, it shall not be lawful saint Peter to find any fault in her. For I thought that it wold●●lway be lawful for saint Peter to say true, and to call a spot a spot, and a wrinkle a wrinkle in her all the while she had any/ and that is as Barns now confesseth in conclusion all the while she is here. But now meant Barns all this while as it appeareth far of another fashion, that is to wit that she should ever have spots and wrinkles while she liveth in earth/ but that saint Peter may not be suffered to tell her so/ for if any man would lay her spots and her wrinkles to her charge then is christ saith frere Barns ready to give her his cleanness, and to let her by faith claim of right his purynesse for her own/ and which faith meaneth he? faith alone of likely head for all only faith justifieth he saith.  
But yet good readers ye wot well for all this till she come there as she shall be glorious, which is in heaven & not here/ and unto which though the church shall in conclusion come, yet shall not every man come that is at any time parcel, a member of the church, no more than though the children of Israel came in conclusion to the land of behest/ and were divers times delyuer●d again out of thraldom/ that it therefore followed that all came thither, but many died in desert: yet in the mean while I say till god hath so fully given her his cleanness and his purynes, that he hath fully washed out all her spots and strecched out all her wrinkles, & made her glorious in heaven/ where as saint Poule saith, 
 who shall accuse the chosen of god/ as who say no man can/ else while she is yet here in earth not glorified, nor her spots fully washed out/ but be in wesshing, nor her wrinkles fully strecched out/ but be in strecching/ and while as fast as her husband washeth she spotteth, and as fast as he streccheth she wryncleth: I can not in good faith see why saint Peter should be afeard/ or by what law it were unlawful for him to say for the time the thing that for the time is troth, that is to wit that she is not yet pure & clean without spot or wrinkle.  
And thus good readers yet ye see once again that frere Barons proveth nothing the church that he promised but when in stead of one pure and clean without spot or wrinkle he bringeth one, not so clean but that she is spotted and wrinkled/ he would win the field with a face, & make saint Peter afeard, to call her spots spots, or her wryncles' wrinkles. But it will not be Barns, it will not be. For though saint Peter while himself was of the very church here in earth/ and therefore yet wrinkled and spotted, and so sore feared reproof, that at the word of a woman he was afeard, to look a girl in the face/ yet now that he is glorified in the church in heaven/ and all his spots washed clean out, and all his wrinkles clean stretched out/ he is now so far out of all fere of reproof, that the thunder of your great word can not let him to say true, for any fere of your gargyle face, that ye came disguised with, at your last resorting hither.  
But now let us consider somewhat of frere Barns holy preaching by the way, whither it be so holy as he would have it seem.  
The cause he saith why this church is here so holy, pure, and clean, without spot or wrinkle/ and yet hath he saith ever spots and wrinkles, while it is in this world/ is he saith because god hath chosen it without any merits of her, and because she knowledgeth her faults. Here must we consider always good readers, that he putteth the church to be all of good folk and none evil, nor deadly sinners therein/ for that is ye remember well the difference between the common known catholic church and his/ that the catholic church of christ here in earth, hath in it both good and bad/ and frere Barons church hath none in it, but so good, so clean, and so pure, that there is not an evil man therein/ but though they never lack spots nor wrinkles, yet their spots be no spots, nor their wrinkles be no wrinkles, or at the lest wise though they be/ yet saint Peter may not be so bold to call them so/ because themself knowledge them to be so.  
Now as for that he speaketh of election and merits/ w● will not much meddle with him. For we agree that god chooseth by prevention of grace, every man that he taketh to him before the man may any thing merit, which can with out grace nothing merit. But after may man by fire will work with grace and help, to merit reward in heuy● by good works wrought in faith and charity, and not in faith alone, what so ever frere Barns against free will and good wurkes babble to the contrary.  
But now concerning that he speaketh of satisfaction, and that christ is our satisfaction/ the words are good and true: for Christ's death is able and suf●ycyent, and so is the lest drop of his blood for the satisfaction of the sins of all the whole world, and many be without any other satisfaction saved, as be all the children that after baptism die in their cradles. But god hath not so ordered yet/ that every man which hath age & discretion should so trust unto that satisfaction by which christ with his passion satisfied for all men's sins at once/ that he should for his own sins by the fruitful wurkes of penance make no satisfaction himself no more than he would though Cryst be our advocate & pray for us, that we should therefore be the more slack & remiss in praying also diligently for ourself. For he biddeth & ● teacheth us also to pray, & that without ceacing & fainting. Nor he taketh it not for folly nor for sin that for the honour we bear to god, we honour and pray to the saints also that are his friends, to be intercessors for us/ against which frere Barons hath made as very a foolish process as ever did heretic that spoke on that part, sith that heresy first began/ and no le●se foolishly speaketh he in many places against satisfaction & against all the sacrament of penance.  
And therefore where he sayeth that the church is made clean and pure, by knowledging her synnies: it appeareth well that though he speak the same words, that saint austin spoke/ yet he meaneth not as saint austin meant. For saint austin in diverse other places declareth, that a sinner should knowledge his deadly sins, by shrift and confession and do satisfaction and penance/ appointed him by the pressed, as he doth both in divers other placies/ and also at great length in his book de vera & falsa penitentia, 
Augusti. de vera & fa●sa penitentia cap. 1●. & .15.  where he saith in this wise, Therefore he that repenteth let him utterly repent/ let him show his sorrow with tearys/ let him represent and declare his life unto god by the pressed/ let him prevent the judgement of god, by shrift. For our lord commanded those that were made clean of their leprosy, that they should show themself to the priests/ thereby teaching that the sins must be confessed by bo/ +dely presence, and not be showed by a messenger, nor by writing. And after in the xu chapter: Let every man put himself utterly in the power of the judge in the judgement of the pressed/ let him reserve unto himself no power of himself, but that he be ready at the priests commandment, to do for the repairing of the life of his soul all things that ever he would do for to i'll the death of his body, and the with desire to/ for because he getteth again infinite life.  
And thus it appeareth as ye see good readers, in what wise saint austin would a sinner should knowledge his deadly sins, that is to wit by shrift, contrition, and satisfaction/ not only voluntary bysyde, but also such as should be enjoined by the pressed. And while frere Barons doth but mock the sacrament of penance/ and because christ is our satisfaction, will that men shall do none for themself: it appeareth well I say therefore that though he speak in this place as saint austin doth in one place, yet meaneth he not as saint austin meant in that place.  
And therefore by frere Barns meaning, a man needeth no more but knowledge himself a sinner and all is safe. And then may the church be soon a great flock. For there be folk enough able to make a great flock, that willbe content to knowledge their sin if that may serve alone, and they without peril suffered to sin on still.  
And yet though there were no more required but even a bare knowledging of their sin: yet would neither Barons, nor Tindale, nor Luther, nor Lambert, nor Huyskyn do so much for god's sake as to knowledge their sin/ but they will rather run to the devil in hell, then win heaven with the bare knowledging that their poisoned he resyes and the abominable sacrilege of freres & nuns marriage, is any sin at all.  
And mark well this by the way good reader, that by Barons in such times as men have between the beginning of their deadly sins & the knowledging of their synnies, which times be in many one man many times in his days: in all those times they be not of the church/ and again in all the times in which they knowledge, they be forthwith of the church. So that by Barns, one self man is of the church & not of the church, not only many times in his life/ but also some one is peradventure of the church and not of the church divers times in one day.  
And this is plain against Tyndals' church. For he putteth the church to be a company of only such as never sin deadly, and therefore be never out of the church/ how be it he calleth them all way repentauntes, and yet showeth that sometime they repent not, but be carried forth in their sin long ere they repent/ and so neither agreeth he with Barns nor with himself neither.  
But there in doth Barons quite him as well again/ for no more doth he neither. For some time he saith that it must needs be that there must be such a church, that by the faith and the knowledging of her sins, and the hearing of Crystes voice, and cleaving to his word/ and because he hath chosen her, is cleansed pure and clean and can not err. And then again he speaketh in some place of that fashion, as though it might be that there were some time no such church at all. For he saith she is clean so long as she abideth in him and no longer/ signifying that she might peradventure depart out of him, & then be no church of his. And therefore he saith that she can not err, because she heareth the voice of her shepherd, and because she hath the inward ointment of god/ as saint Iohn saith that teacheth her all manner of truth, so that she can not err.  
But then to show us that we should not reckon ourself sure of her doctrine, weening that she should be at all times in such case and so taught of god with his inward ointment that we might be sure that she would teach us nothing but such as god inwardly taught her: he telleth us how long we may trust her, and saith she is but a woman, and must be ruled by her husband/ and she is but a sheep, and must hear the voice of her shepherd. And so long as she so doth/ so long can she not er●e● as though he would say, some time peradventure she doth not, and then doth she err, and therefore then believe her not.  
And to prove that she may some time leave her husband and go from him, and not be ruled by him, and so be full of sin and error: he bringeth in the parable of christ, wher●●e said, 
Iohn. 15●  I am the very vine, and ye be the braunches● And like as the branches can bring forth no fruit but if it abide in the vine/ no more said our saviour can ye● do but if ye abide in me. And in this meaneth Barons meetly well in part, and better than Tyndale. For by these words it well appeareth, that those which are good folk in deed, and at one time very branches of that very vine/ may by the devils means and their own foolish negligence and frowardness, fall of fro the vine and so bring forth no good fruit, but wither away and serve but for the fire/ as did that scysmatike traitor judas, which was at the time of these word spoken one of the branches of that vine.  
And thus meaneth Barns, that he which is at one time good, and of it may be another time nought and fall from it, and then is foul a●d unclean and full of errors. But in this is Tyndale against Barons. For Tyndale saith he which is once good and a branch of that vine, can never sin deadly after/ because he can not come into it to be a lively branch of that very vine, but by god's election and a feeling faith, that can as Tindale saith never fail nor depart out or fall of.  
But therein doth Barons not err so far out as Tyndale doth/ but taketh it according to Crystes meaning, that by this parable giveth every man warning that they may fall of, and biddeth them be aware they do not.  
But then in another point Barons seemeth to run out at rovers as far beyond Tyndale. For where as Tyndale falsely telleth us, that never one member of the church may fall fro christ at any time: frere Barons telleth us here, that the whole church may fall from him diverse times, and that therefore she may diverse times err, and that therefore her doctrine is not alway sure, nor may not always be leaned unto nor surely be believed/ but that every man must needs upon apparel of his own soul examine and judge her doctrine, and so receive or reject her doctrine by the word of god. And this must every man do upon the pain of damnation, whither he have wit and learning meet therefore or not.  
And now sith it is so that Barons putteth in this case not every singular member of the church, of whom some may fall of at one time, some at another, and som● come in again, and some peradventure never/ and yet all ●●hyle the body never gone, nor the head left without me●●ers, nor the vine left without brances: sith Barons I say repugnant not only to Tyndales tale, but also to some other parts of his own, telleth us that she that is to say the whole entire chyrthe, may so depart and fall of from god, that we can have no surety of her perseverance, but that she may leave him and so fall in error. which he saith to make us think that we may therefore miss trust her do ctryne, and trust it no longer than as long as she abideth in god. And because we can not well know when she is with him and when from him: therefore he would that we should always miss trust her, and ever make an assay and a trial of her, every man for his own part upon the apparel of his own soul, examining himself her doctrine by the scripture, as well man as woman, whether he or she can skill thereof or no. sith frere Barons I say telleth us in effect this tale contrary to some other parts of his own tale: I well may and will cut of all his bibble-babble that he maketh in telling us that the general counsels may err, because it may be he saith that they have not the spirit of god with them. For what would it avail for me to denfende the credence of the general counsels unto frere Barons, when he so handleth matter that would make us ween that not only the general counsels which represent the whole church may err, but also that the whole church which he putteth himself, of people so clean and pure without spot or wrinkle, that saint Peter may find no fault in them/ though she can not err while she cleaveth to god and heareth his word, and therefore thereby is such, yet she may fall fro god he saith & leave the lening unto his word, and so wax foul and filthy, and so fall in errors. I will therefore peradventure at some other convenient time, entreat the matter of the general counsels with frere Barons/ in which treaty I trust to make almost every child perceive, that frere Barons all that he babeleth here of the counsels, if he had asked and foloweed any wise man's counsel, but if he could have treated it more wisely, should wisely h●ue left it out.  
And so doth appear all ready. For he hath not in all that he saith, proved no general counsel fallen in any damnable error/ which kind of error is the error that we speak of.  
But now sith he saith as ye have herd, and for as much also as whether a pope or general counsel either may damnable be deceived and err, is not now our matter/ but whither the catholic known church be the very church, and then whether the whole church may err/ and sith the points of the catholic faith wherein frere Barons and we vary, and wherein wyllyam Tyndale and we vary, and wherein frere Luther and we vary, and wherein frere Huyskyn and we vary, and wherein we vary with all the other hundred sects of heretyques, and wherein each of them varieth with other as well as with us, except only one thing the wedding of frerers and nuns/ for in that these new heretics be all most all agreed, which till with in this twenty year never one of the old heretyques would for very shame have granted/ but now sith as I say the pontes of the faith that they and we vary for, be for our part not only determined by counsels, but also received and approved as part of the comen catholic faith, by the faithful consent and belief of all christian nations/ and the contrary part not only condemned and abhorred by holy general counsels, but also by the sentence of all old holy saints writings and by the catholic consent of all christian people, before that these heretyques that now revive them, departed out of the catholyove church for them/ some sect of which, both Tyndale and Barons would were taken for the church/ and neither of both can tell which, and therefore dare not name which, but saith it is unknown which: I shall therefore pass over as I said for this time frere Barons bibble-babble against the general counsels, and shall yet also till I come farther in this matter, differ the touching of the texts that he bringeth forth of saint Abstain and other holy doctors for the proof of his purpose/ and I will first touch the point by which Barons will make us to know his unknown church, if we happen to come where it is. For where we should seek her that he telleth us not/ as though it made no matter though we never found her, so that we know her if we hap to find her. And yet it appeareth that he thinketh it necessary to seek her and find her/ for else wherefore giveth he any tokens at all. But this point Barons learned of Luther/ and yet findeth he Luther so foolish, that he is ashamed to tell all his tale, as I shall after show you. But first let us hear what a wise tale Barons will in this matter tell us.  Barns. 
Now must we declare by what signs and tokyns that we may know, that in this place or that place there be certain membres of this wholly church. For though she be in herself spiritual, and can not be perfaytly known by our exterior senses: yet nevertheless we may have certain tokens of her spiritual presence, whereby we may rekyn that in this place and in that place be certain of her membres. As by a natural example, though the soul of man in herself be spiritual and invisible, yet may we have sure tokens of her presence, as hearing moving, speaking, smelling, with such other. So like wise where the word of god is truly and perfitly preached, without the damnable dreams of men, and where it is well of the ●earers received, and also where we see good works that do openly agree with the doctrine of the gospel/ these be good and sure tokens whereby that we may judge that there be some men of holy church. As to the first, where as the gospel is truly preached, it must needs light in some men's hearts, as the prophet witnesseth: My word shall not return again to me frustrate/ but it shall do all thing that I will/ and it shall prosper in those things unto which I did send it.  
Also saint P●ule saith, faith cometh by hearing, and hearing cometh by the word of god/ and therefore it is open in holy scripture, that when Peter spoke the words of god, the holy ghost fell down on them all. Wherefore it is open that god's word can never be preached in vain, but some men must needs reserve it, & thereby be made of holy church, though that men do not know them neither by their names nor yet by their faces/ for this word is received into their hearts. The second token is, that the receivers of this word do work well there after, as S. Paul declareth of his hearers, when you received of us the word wherewith god was preached/ you received it not as the word of men, but even (as it was in deed) the word of god which worketh in you that believe. So that if men do work after the word of god/ it is a good token that there ●e men of the church, though that we (hypocrisy is so subtylle and so secret) may be oftentimes deceived by these outward works. But never the less charity judgeth well of all things that have a good outward sign, and ●e not openly against the word of god. But it is no jeopardy though chyryte 〈◊〉 deceived, for he is open to all jeopardies/ but faith is ne●er deceived.  
Now to our purpose, that where the word of god is preached truly, it y● a good and a perfit token that there be some men of Christ's church/ this may be proved by Chrys●stimus words, They that be in judea, let th●m i'll up in to the mountaye●s/ that is to say, they that be in christendom, let them give themself to scriptures. Wherefore commandeth he that all christened men in that time, should fly unto scriptures. ●or in that time in th● which heresies have obtained in to the church/ there can be no tr●we probation of christendom, nor no nother refuge unto christian men, willing to know the verity of faith, but the scriptures of god. Afore by many weigh'st was it showed which was the church of christ, and which was the congregation of g●ntyles. ●ut now there is none other way to know unto them that will know which is the very true church of christ, but alonely by scripture. By works first wa● the church of christ known when the conversation of christian men other of all or of many were holy/ the which holiness ●ad not the wicked men, but n●w christian men be as evil o● worse than heretics or gentylies/ ye and greater continency is found among them than among christian men. Wherefore he that will know which is the very church of christ/ how shall he know but by scriptures only. Wherefore our lord considering that so great confusion of things, should come in this latter days/ therefore commandeth he that christian men which be in christendom willing to reserve the steadfastness of true faith should fly unto none other thing but unto scriptures/ for if they have respect unto other things they shall be slandered and shall perish/ not understanding which is the true church. etc.  
These words need no exposition they be plain enough they do also exclude all manner of learning saving holy scripture/ wherefore se how you can with honesty save your holy laws/ and defend them against Chrysostome. More over if Chrysostom complain of the incontynency that was in his days/ how would he complain if he now lived, and saw the boudry and fornication that is in the church. Also he sendeth men to scriptures that will know the holy church/ & not unto the holy church for in the church were heresies but not in scripture.  
Also saint Paul witnesseth the same saying/ you are bylte upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets/ here have you plainly that the very true church is grounded ye and founded of holy scripture/ and therefore where so ever that the word of god is preached/ that is a good token that there be some men of Christ's church. But now as to the fruits and works of this church/ she doth alonely fetch out her manner of living/ and all her good works out of the holy word of god/ and she feigneth not nor dremyth any other new holiness or new invented works that be not in scripture, but she is content with Christ's learning and believeth that Chryst hath sufficiently taught her all manner of good works that be to the honour of our heavenly father. Therefore inventeth she none other way to heaven but followeth christ only/ in suffering oppressions and persecutions, blasphemings and all other things that may be said unto hy●/ which as saint Augustayne saith she learned of our master christ. Our holy mother the church thorough out all the world scattered far and long/ in her true head christ jesus taught/ hath learned not to fere the contume●ys of the cross nor yet of death, but more and more is she strengthened, not in resisting but in suffering.  More. 
Here have ye heard good readers a fair tale with a proper ensample of the soul/ and then two tokens after/ by which ye may know in which company there be some of the church, though ye can not know which the persons be that be of the church.  
And in both these points ye have herd his whole tale no word in the way left out/ nor one word hath he not after for any further proof/ but spending a leaf & an half in rayly●ge upon the clergy, and seremonyes and sacraments of the church, therewith he ●ynyssheth and endeth all his process.  
And therefore as touching the matter, ye have heard all his whole tale garnished and made fair with the sample of the soul, and the two tokens of the church. But now is this tale fair as long as it is in telling, and goth fair and smooth by a man's ear, as the water goth over the goosies back/ for else if it tarry still till it we●e well to the skin, and be well felt and considered, than it loseth all the grace and will appear so foolish, that the reader will think that this tale hath more tokens than twain to make him know that the writer had almost no more wit in his head then one that had no soul in his body.  
I let pass that he noteth in the mergyne these words how a man may know the church/ and than he telleth us in his text not how a man may know it, nor any piece of it/ but how a man may know in what place it is/ and yet not so much neither: For he telleth us not, go to such a place, and there thou shalt find it, or some membres of it/ but he biddeth us go and telleth us not whither/ and sendeth us to seek, & telleth us not where/ but telleth us only by what token we shall know whither in the place where we happen to seek, there be any such person or no.  
But now let us suppose that he told us the first tale, which were yet more to the purpose then the tale that he telleth us now. And yet because he maketh us his tale so plain by the sample of the soul/ let us put him again for our part some sample of some simple soul/ some good merchant that were fallen in company with frere Barns in the house of his secret hosts at the sign of the bottle at Botolfes' wharf, and finding him walking in a mertchauntes' gown with a red milan bonnet, and not knowing that he were run out of religion/ but weening that he were an honest man told him that he were going toward Excester/ and for as much as he must carry money with him, he would fain find some good company that were going thither/ by whom he might be both conveyed the right way & also go the more sure: For he had herd that there were in many inns many loitering fellows, that were false shrews & yet seemed as honest & as true as he/ which falls shrews would fain themself to be merchants & say they were going thitherward to/ but when they were gotten in credence & taken into company then used to lead men out of the way & rob them & kill them to.  
Now if frere Barns would say to this man ye be happy that ye have met with me/ for I will send you to an inn, where ye shall be sure and never fail to find some honest true merchants that are thitherward/ and than would send him to a certain place which he would name him. If this merchant when he had heartily thanked Barns and were going very glad of his chance in meeting with this good man, by whose sending he should now be sure of good company in his journey, should happen yet to remember himself a little ferther as soon as he came out at door/ and thereupon step in again & say. But master merchant I pray you tell me yet one thing, that I had like a fool forgotten before to ask you. In the inn● that ye send me to where I shall be sure to find these honest true men that are going toward Excester, are there not also sometime some such false shrews as I told you of/ that make as though they were honest true merchants and going thither/ till they may make men believe them/ and when they be once gotten in company then lead them wrong and rob them, and kill them. To this question if Barns told him there as he telleth us here, and said, yes marry sir that there be, not only sometime, but alway not a few such loitering in the same inn, that lie in await to train men to them, and after betray them and destroy them/ than would the man say marry sir than I pray you tell me how I may know the tone sort fro the t'other. whereunto if Barns should tell him as he now telleth us. Nay brother I can tell the no ferther/ but this I will warrant thee, that though there are as alway there are in the place that I send the to, many such false thiefs/ and but very few of those true men that I told the of/ yet some such true men are there alway there/ but how thou shalt know which they be, & discern them fro the thiefs, that can I not tell thee/ but that thou mayest as well be there deceived in the miss taking of them, as thou haste now be deceived in the miss taking of me/ whom thou takest for a merchant, and yet am I a fr●re. when Barns had once told the man this tale, would not the man tell him again/ marry than god a-mercy for right nought. For now am I never the near/ but thou leue●te me as wise as thou foundeste me/ and so shall I the to. And thereupon would he take his leave honestly & bid Barns far well fool.  
Now the tale that he telleth us, is yet much more false and much more uncertain. For he telleth not us so much as the name of the place, wherein we shall be sure to find any of the church/ but biddeth us go take the scripture with us and therewith wander about and adventure, till we happen upon some place, in which we find some man tha● doth preach us the word of god/ that is to say declare us that same scripture truly, for well ye wot he will agree none other thing to be the word of god, sauyng● the scripture only/ and then where so ever we happen to find any man that exponeth it and declareth it truly without any damnable dreams of men/ and where we see that it is well of the hearers received, & also where we see good works that do openly agree with the doctrine of the gospel, these be good and sure tokens, whereby that we may judge that there be some men of holy church there.  
first would I wit what he meaneth by sure tokens, whether he mean only tokens & signs whereby we may conjecture that some of the church be there though we know not which they be as we may by a sign of a green garland, perceive that there is wine in the house though we know not where about the cellar is, or else that we may so surely know it, that we can not be deceived therein/ as we be sure by the smoke and the sparkles that there is fire in the chymeney. If he mean of the first fashion of sure tokening, then is it no sure sign and token but an answer, guess, and conjecture, for there is peradventure no wine in that house at all/ but the wine drunken up, and the garland hang still, and then had the wine or the ale by the green garland or an ale pole have been frere Barons a better sample and more meet for his matter, than the sample of the soul known to be in the body by the signs and tokens of hearing, speaking, sight, and smelling, and such things as the body can not do but when the soul is in it And also what am I then the near if I may ween there be in that company some of the church, and yet peradventure there be none, nor much the near neither by Barns church though there be some of them there in deed as ye shall see soon after.  
Now if he mean on the second manner that by these tokens that we here the word of god well and truly taught by the preacher, and see it well received of the hearers, and good gospel works wrought among people/ we may be very sure that ●here be some of the church in that company, why should Barons say as he saith here, that we can not be sure which the be: For if it may be surely known by those tokens, that some of them be there/ then must of reason those tokens make us most sure of those persons, in whom we see them. And if they can not make us sure of them, in whom we see them, they can not make us sure as i● seemeth of them in whom we see them not.  
For when our saviour said of hypocrite heretics ye shall know them by their fruits, 
Matth. 7.  he meant that ye should perceive the same persons for heretyques and hypocrites by the evil fruits of their false doctrine, that under a cloak of virtuous living and cleanness they should secretly sow and set forth false heresies contrary to the known doctrine that himself had taught his catholic church, and that they should also be perceived by the fruit of evil works, with which he would, 
Matth. 7.  if men took heed & wached them well (as he bode them do) cause them to be deprehended and taken, and their masker's taken of and their hypocrisy to be discovered. But christ meant not that the tokens found in one person should leave us unsure of him, and only make us sure that some herytyque and hypocrite were there, as Barons here saith by his tokens we shall be sure that some of the church be there, but I can not be sure which person is any of them.  
Now if he said this only in whole great regions his reason might have some place, for of a great multitude seeming good men, I may well reckon that though some be hypocrites, all be not so. But while Barons saith where so ever I find these tokens, there I may be sure that some of his church without spot or wrinkle are among them, the place may be so small, and the company so few that I cou●d not be sure, but might well fere the though I see such good tokens in some of them, yet of that clean and pure church of frere Barons there were never one among them.  
yet ask I frere Barons farther, how proveth he that where so ever we find these tokens, we shall be sure that though we can not tell which they be, yet sure we may be that of his holy church some in that company there be.  
In the answer unto this, he putteth a difference in deed between the token of the good works, and the token of the true preaching. For as for the works though they be very true gospel works, they be he saith no perfit sure signs but only tokens whereby we may conjecture & dame well but not be sure, because they may be feigned by hypocrisy/ but the other token of the preaching, that token is he sayeth a perfit token, so that in that company where so ever we see that happen, we have a perfayt token that there be in that company some men of Christ's holy church.  
And this he proveth as ye have herd by the authority of the prophet isaiah and of saint Poule, and by the sample of saint Peter in the tenth of the Acts, where at the preaching of saint Peter the holy ghost fell down on them all.  
But as for that ensample proveth not Barns purpose. For it proveth no farther, but that some time it doth so, where the hearers be such as so do receive it/ but ●arns must prove us that it is ever so.  
But this is frere Batons logyque, and Tyndales, and Luther's also, and so is it of them all, upon a particular they boldly conclude an universal.  
Now as touching the words spoken of god by the mouth of the prophet isaiah, My word shall not return again to me frustrate, but it shall do all thing that I will, and it shall prosper in those things unto the which I did send it:  
what do the words prove for Baron's purpose? If he prove us his purpose by these words, he must prove us first that the word of god, whereof the prophet isaiah there speaketh, 
〈◊〉. 1  is none other word but only the preaching of the scripture. For that is the word which frere Barons here speaketh of. And therefore in the prophet isaiah the word may signify that word of god, of which word saint Iohn̄●ayth, In the beginning was the word, that is to wit the only begotten son of god, as it there signifieth in deed, & not the word written in scripture, though that of that word be much written in scripture. Then se●th every learned man that those words of isaiah nothing prove the purpose of frere Barons, though it might there signify also the word written in scripture. For it proveth ye wot will not for the preaching of the word of god written in scripture, if it be doubtful and not evident, whither the prophet spoke of the scripture or not.  
But now who so ever look upon the place in the bible he shall see that lyre, and the ordinary gloze, and the interlynyare gloze also, do declare that though the words may be exponed of the scripture: the prophet speaketh these words properly of the word of god, that is gods only bygoten son. And the very text plainly showeth upon all the cyrcumstaunces, that the prophet there prophesieth in the person of the father after this manner. As though he would say, My word, that is to wit my son whom I have sent into the world for the redemption of man, shall not return again to me void or empty. For he shall bring with him the fathers out of Lymbus. But he shall do all thing that I will. For he shall teach both by words ensample and miracles, both the jews and the paynims, and make one church of both, and shall in fulfilling of my will, humble himself unto the death, even the death of the cross. And he shall prosper in those things unto the which I sent him. For himself shall gloryousely rise again fro death, and ascend up to me, and here sit in eternal glory on my right hand, one equal god with the holy ghost and me, and shall bring hither also a glorious church out of earth, to reign with us here in heaven.  
Of this word therefore spoke the prophet, that is to say of the son of god, and of his returning again to his father/ of whose going forth fro the father and returning again to the father, 
Psal. 18.  writeth the prophet David: His going forth is from the high heaven, and his meating is unto the height thereof/ and is not properly meant by the preaching of the word written in scripture. And therefore as I told you it nothing proveth the purpose of frere Barons.  
And yet over all this, if the prophet spoke there of the word written in scripture, and of none other: yet would it not prove that in every place where it were preached, it should needs take such hold/ in some folk, that it should of necessity make in every such place some very members of the church pure and clean without spot or wrinkle. For god hath none other will for any thing by Barns proved yet, that his word should take such hold in every place then in every man/ but like as his word doth his will & returned not again to god void, if it take hold in some men tha● hear it, though it take not hold in every man that heareth it/ so doth it his will and returneth not to him void, if it take hold in some place where it is preached, though it take not hold in every place.  
And that it should not in every place take hold/ appeareth by the words of our saviour, where he saith to his disciples whom he sent to preach, In to what house so every enter, first say ye peace be to this house. 
Luce. 10.  And then if the son of peace be there/ your peace shall rest upon him, or else your peace shall return again unto yourself. In which our saviour showeth us, that if a good man preach well, though there were not one in all his audience that would be the better for it/ yet should it not be void/ for the merit should at the lest rebound back upon himself, but not of necessity take hold in every audience, so far forth that it might be preached unto an hole city, and take none hold but be rejected. For which cause our saviour said also to those whom he sent to preach: 
Lu●ae. 1●  if any city refuse you and will not receive your doctrine, wipe of the dust of your feet at your parting in witness against them/ & I tell you troth, the cities Sodom & Gomorre shall in the day of doom, be more easily handled than they.  
And thus good readers ye see that these words of the prophet Isaiah will in no wise avail frere Barns/ but utterly they leave his purpose all unproved.  
Now hath he than but one anchor more unto that ship & that is the words of saint Poule, where he saith, Faith cometh by hearing, & hearing cometh by the word of god. But surely this anchor lieth to far aloufe fro this ship and hath never a cable to fasten her to it. For never herd I yet two things so loosely knit together.  
what manner an argument doth frere Barons call this? Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing cometh by the word of god/ ergo in every place where the word of god is herd, must needs be some faithful men.  
Though there were never man faithful without hearing of the word of god, as in deed there is not ordinarily in actual faith/ may it not be for all that that there may be many that here it together in one place, of all whom never one will be faithful, but have the faith in derision. This argument is so foolish that I marvel frere Barons would be so fond to bring it forth.  
And thus good christian reads here ye see now to what point frere Barons is brought, with his signs & tokens, wherewith he promised us to make us know where were some membres of his holy pure clean church, wherein he confesseth himself that some of his signs and tokens be but faint and unsufficient. And than that one which he saith is perfayth, ye see so unperfytely proved, that of all the scriptures that he bringeth, there is not one syllable serveth him  
And yet have I showed you also, that if he proved all that he saith/ yet were all his teaching of knowledge where some of the church be, without the knowledge who they be, a very fruitless knowledge, whereof the knower could never take spiritual profit.  
But now good christian readers, to the intent that the folly of frere Barons invention may the more clearly appear concerning his tokens with which he teacheth us to know his unknown church/ let us yet a little consider his lesson better. Let us suppose that some good honest merchant's wife, a woman honest of her conversation, being by some shrewd gosseppes of hers brought in acquaintance with some false wily heretic, had begun to fall in some doubt and fere, lest the faith that she had before learned of the thyrche, concerning the seven sacraments, & praying to saints, and praying for souls, and many things more, were untrue and dangerous to live and die in/ and that she were not yet so far fallen to the wrong side, but that she stood still in a doubt and in a mamering which way she might take, and fain would take the best. And being thus brought into this doubt, had by some proctor of the evangelical fraternity, secretly brought unto her frere Barons book. After which secretly red over by herself in a corner, for many things that she partly liked, partly miss liked in the reading, perceiving that he was than upon his passage over these again, longed sore to speak with himself ere he went/ and thereupon being by some good brother and sister brought together where there were none present but such as were toward the fraternity, after solemn salutations and ghostly gretynges of the congregation in osculo charitatis, she would break her mind unto him, & show him that by the good gracious motion of such a man or such a woman, she had begun to enter in to the consideration of her soul health/ and not to be so negligent as she had before been, to believe every priests tale that standeth up in a pulpit, but to seek some sure way how she may surely ●e taught the truth & not deceived. And for because she had red his book, where in she found divers doubts, of which she would fain if he might have tarried be somewhat satisfied, and also have used his ghostly counsel for her ferther instruction and sure setting forth in the way of the truth/ sith god had so disposed that he should so soon departed that she could not have that full fruit and comfort of his person, she would not for the short time of that their present assemble cumber him with her questions, which were like to be but frivolous & womannysshe, nor be a let and impediment unto the fervent desires of the other brethren & sisters of the congregation, whereof every one longed to be comforted with his ghostly communication at that time specially, which was as it seemed the last in which they were likely to be fed with the pleasant conversation of his bodily presence. And therefore she would no more desire of him for the time, but that he would as our saviour when himself went his way, did send his holy spirit to teach his apostles, & his apostles to teach the wide wild ignorant world/ so may it please you good father Barns while ye depart hence, to assign some mean & show me some way, by which I may be sure all way to have some good gracious spiritual man, some true member of the very church, of whom I may be sure to learn the very true faith, that our saviour first by himself, & after by his holy spirit taught his blessed apostles, & by them the world that would learn/ & yet by the same spirit teacheth his very holy church still, as ye show to my simple mindful well & clerkly in your goodly process, wherein ye declare which is the very church. I beseech you therefore do no more for me for this once, but lest I be when ye be gone deceived by some false teacher, set me now before your going in some way, whereby I may be sure ever of a true.  
To this would frere Barns of likelihood make her great congratulation, & tell all the congregation that they have all great cause to joy and rejoice in the lord/ whose high mercy hath so goodly bygon to pour in the lively liquor of his grace into the dying heart of that good sister, and hath thereby so revived it with the warm breath of his holy spirit, that he maketh it begin to qnycken & look up, and to long to behold and see the bright son of his veryre written in the holy scryptu●e of god, & to rub her eyen and shake of the ●alse imaginations of all the damnable dreams of men/ and that himself is very sorry that he can not according to his hope that brought him hither have his evangelical doctrine accepted of the king and openly received in the realm, which he so sore hath travailed to regender again unto god in the true faith/ bu● is by the means of the false scribes and pharas●ys rejected and rebuked, and saving for the kings safe conduc●●, should have standen in apparel to be burned and his books with him, which safe conduct because it was granted but for vi weeks now more then almost passed, for which cause he changed his notable monstrous apparel that he came in with, and shove his beard and went like a merchant, that he might be the l●sse me●ked in tarrying after the safe conduct and visiting the congregation, without whose liberal aid and almoise he should ne●ther have been able to sustain and bear, nor to recover and get again the money that he spent about his prenting of his book and his coming hither and going over again. wherefore sith he may not safely tarry here, but must except he would be burned go get him over again/ both that good sister and all the holy congregation, and himself also which is as sorry to part from them as they from him, must conform their wills on all sides unto the will of good/ and as for the absence bodily, he would recompense upon his part, with being mindful of them in his prayer to the lord, and trusted they would in like wise do/ and so would he pray them to do, pray to the lord for him/ & so should either part by their praying each for other, according to the counsel of saint jamys, much more each profit other, then if our lady & all the saints in h●uyn if there be any there, 
jacobi. 5.  would pray for them both, because the saints be all departed hence & deed and be no longer of our function. And yet would he for his part to their ferther consolation, make and send them over some new books of the evangelical doctrine in their mother tongue, for the better edifying of their silly simple souls. And this would he say for the comfort of the hole fraternity and sororyte in general. And then for answer to the good sister in special, he would peradventure advise her to take the new testament of Tyndales translation, and other books of his, and of his own, and of George jovy/ and therein should she find the troth. whereunto if she said that she might not for fere of her husbands loss and her own apparel, adventure to keep these books because of the kings proclamation/ he would tell her and persuade her plainly, that the books of the scripture she must needs keep spite of all the princes proclamation to die therefore. (For that he writeth plainly all ready, but as for the other books, he layeth not expressly so sore a charge upon them) wherefore he would enjoin her at the lest wise to keep the scripture in english, and tell her that therein she should learn all trouh.  
But than is it likely that she might say, that the scripture is hard for her to understand/ & therefore show him that the thing which she desireth of him, is to know of him (sith himself goth away) how she might be sure to have a good true teacher, that might in every necessary point of belief, expone the scripture and teach it her truly.  
Then would he peradventure assign her some special sped man in the sects, and tell her she may learn of him. But than were she likely to say that he might happily be driven away for fere of persecution/ ye or peradventure die before she should be fully learned and instructed in the necessary truths by the scripture: which she could not think herself to be, till she did in every such troth understand all the places of scriptures that either made for it or seemed to say against. And therefore would she fain know now of him, by what mean she might alway be sure of a true teacher.  
Then would he peradventure tell her, that who so ever preach truly the word of god, according to that scripture ● she might be sure that he were a true preacher, and of him she might surely learn.  
But unto that she were likely to say: Father Barons, This same scripture is very hard/ and in the most necessary points diverse preachers expowne it diversly, some for the sacraments, & some against them, some for the vow of chastity and some against it, some for good works, and some for faith alone, some for purgatory & some against it, and so in such other things/ so that except I may be sure of the true teacher, unto whose credence I may trust in the construction, I shall always remain still in like doubt, and not understand the scripture. And therefore shall I not be able by the scripture to try the true preacher, but must by the knowledge of the true preachour try which is the understanding of the scripture. And therefore I would have the true preachour to teach me truly to understand the same scripture. And for that intent would I know him, to th'end that I might by that I know him for a true preacher, be sure that by his teaching I do not damnably miss understand the scripture, but am truly taught it. And now you tell me that who so teach the scripture truly is a teacher. And then must I by this tale of yours, bring with me to him or else I can not know him, the thing that I can not get but if I know him first.  
what were frere Barns here likely to say to this woman that might reasonably satisfy her. In good faith I can not say, 
Ac●●r. 10.  taking an unknown church as he doth. For if he would say, good daughter the goodness of god shall ever sufficiently provide you a true teacher, as he provided saint Peter for Centurio: she might tell him that Centurio was warned by god that he was a true preacher/ and if I had such warning of any that shall come, than were I satisfied.  
If Frere Barons would say, when so ever the true preacher cometh, ye shall know him and perceive his doctrine to be true, by the inward unction of the holy ghost, 
johan 2.  that shall teach you inwardly as saith saint Iohn/ for as our lord sayeth: They that are mine hear my voice, 
johan. 10  and hear not the voice of a stranger/ and I know mine and mine know me/ and of this hau● we a sample of Ennuchus, which as he was reading in the scripture and could not understand it by himself, god provided that saint philip should go by him and teach him, 
Act. 8.  and a non Ennuchus believed him and was crystened/ & how did Enuchus know that philip was a true preacher, but by the inward unction and inspiration of god? and so good sister shall you be moved inwardly to perceive the true scripture: surely me thinketh that unto this the woman were well likely to him, that one ensample at one time of one man's deed, as Enuchus was, giveth us not for every man in every time a general rule. For though he were therein not deceived then/ yet some other that would so redly now take for the true preachour, every man that came first to hand might be sore deceived therein, and ween that god gave him the motion when it came of the suggestion of his enemy. For at that time it was well likely, that Enuchus had herd of christ, and of his living, and of his miracles, and of his death, and of his resurrection to life, and such things as were then done and passed before the meeting had between saint Philip and him. And then was that prophecy with diverse other, which Phylyppe there exponed unto him, so plain and open with his doctrine, his death, his rising again, and his miracles, and his other conversation in his life, so clear to make it open that christ was he that was comen to save the world and teach the troth, and should and ought to be believed that god inwardly working with those good outward occasions he rejoiced highly the me●ynge with Crystes disciple that had so well known him, and been so conversant with him.  
But now hath god established his faith and his doctrine by the space of xu hundred year, and sendeth not lightly any such one man to preach and teach as was saint Phylippe, that can in teaching make the scripture so plain and open to me, as saint philip did unto Eunuchus/ not that hath learned it so fully and so surely, as the postles had of the mouth of the great master christ. And therefore should I not have so great occasion to believe and to take for the true teacher any one man that would conster me the scripture now, namely constrewing it in such wise many of his own fellows, professing the faith of christ as he doth, will say that he constreweth it false/ which happened not in the constructions that saint Phylyppe made Enuchus.  
And therefore though our saviour say, that such as are his do hear his voice, and not the voice of strangers: he seemeth to mean there in to give us warning do so, that is to wit, that we should hear and obey him, and not other against him. For who so will hear heretyques and not him, be none of his.  
And that the unction and inward inspiration of god, teacheth us and maketh us perceive that is very true. For god inwardly worketh with the will of man walking with god, in well using and applying convenient occasions toward it outwardly given by god. But it meaneth not that by and by upon every thing that we hear, we should without consideration give ourself to the consent of the tone side or the t'other, in matter of eternal death or everlasting life/ and think that what so ever we forthwith unaduysely list to belief is the unction of the spirit and in inspiration of god. 
Iohn. 4.  For god biddeth us that we should not be light of belief, nor by and by believe every spirit/ but prove the spirits whether they be of god. And then if we be not only simple as dovys, 
Matth. 1●  but also prudent and wise as serpent's/ his inward unction will work with our diligence/ but not if we be slothful, or will be willyngely beguiled, and suffer the devil make us mad fools. And therefore he saith not believe at adventure/ but biddeth us take heed and be well aware, that we be not beguiled by false prophets, that will come to us in such wise that outwardly they shall seem sheep, 
Matth. ●.  and inwardly be ravenous wolves.  
To this would frere Barns say. For soothe dear daughter in the lord, those wolves be these monks, and freres, and priests that be the comen preachers of this carnal church, that they falsely call the catholic church, which do tech● beside the scripture dampuable dreams of men, and make men believe that doom sacraments, and ceremonies, and good works, should do good to the soul: which false preachers with all their carnal church that hath now been this viii. hundred year led out of the right way, we new preachers of the very true church which is spiritual, do now by the word of god written in holy scripture convict and reprove.  
To this were she well likely to say again/ verily father Barns here ye bring me now even to the very point. For sith that the apostles of christ begun that learned of his own mouth, & no one man left now nor never sins their time, whom men might so surely take for an undoubted teacher as them: it seemeth that god hath left the sure credence of doctrine in no one man, but in his whole church. And therefore that man which agreeth in doctrine with the very church, I may reckon sure that his doctrine is very true in the necessary exposition of scripture/ not for his own authority of surety of his person, nor for the surety that I can have that his doctrine agreeth well with scripture/ for I can not know that but by that I know him for for a true teacher: but for the surty that I have that the doctrine of the hole catholic very true church, with which his teaching agreeth, can not be false. For if it might, than were there no sure true church at all/ & that must there needs be as all sorts of sects agree as I here say. And therefore this true church being known, if you show me how I may get a teacher whose teaching agreeth with that/ then dare I believe him well/ & else it will be hard for any such as I am, to think with reason that she should give sure credence to any man, or that she can be by the scripture sure of so many sects of contrary consterers, which one constreweth truly when all the t'other say nay and be all ready to swear that he constreweth false. And therefore good father Barns will she say I, like it well that ye declare so well at length which is the very church, because we should not be deceived with the false prophets of the falls church, of whom christ bode us take heed & beware. For the very true church once known/ we shall as our saviour saith if we take good heed, 
 know these false prophets by their fruits. For look they n●uer so simply & speak they never so sayntely/ yet if their living or their teaching be contrary to the doctrine of the very true holy church, it is than very true that their fruit is rotten & false, and themself false prophets of some false church/ & for all their shepyshe semblance outwardly, right ravenous wolfs are they within.  
And therefore good father Barns I would have wished that ye had taken a little more pain in declaring and making open by what means the very true holy church which ye do assign, might be perceived and known/ to the intent that by the knowledge of her & of her preachers which must needs have credence and be known for true teachers, because they be membres of her that is true, and their doctrine agreeth with hers, whom god will not suffer to say damnably false, we may perceive & reprove the false preachers, o● all other churches. For I am sure good father Barons, that when ye went about to give us tokens whereby we might have some knowledge of this church, ye perceived well that of necessity it is a thing that need were to be known for the good that may follow if it be known, & the harm that would ensue if it remained unknown. For else ye would have taken no labour about it, to seek us out such tokens by which we might have knowledge of it.  
And surely me thinketh that the chief commodity that I can have of the knowledge of it is this, that I may when I know her, be learned and instructed by her, & be surely nuryshed by her in the spiritual food. For holy church is our mother, as ye call her yourself/ and therefore is it she which engendereth us to god, & which both with milk and strenger meet, must feed us & foster us up/ & none other nuryce is thereby whom we can be truly & faithfully brought up. And therefore if we might not know her/ we were in danger either to be hunger starven, or else in stead of wholesome food to be fed with poison.  
But now peradventure frere Barons would answer to this, that it maketh no matter though we know not her. It is ●nough that she know us, & come & give us good & faithful food, and preach truly to us, though we know not that it is she. But unto this the woman would I ween never stick for an answer, but would shortly tell him that he said sooth, if every man were as a young babe that lieth swadeled in a cradle, to whom only the mother might have recourse to feed her own child.  
But now be we (would she say) such as be thus far well warned, that not only our mother holy church is only she that can & will feed us well, & will gladly offer to give us good wholesome food/ but that also there be a great meinie of other wicked women which go about to poison us/ & which because they know that we be well advertised that they so intend, & that only our mother will feed us well, each of them laboureth by all the means that their wily malice can devise, to make us miss take our mother, & each of them calleth herself our mother, and laboureth to be believed / & out of one self good ground of holy scripture, both our very mother bringeth & offereth us wholesome fruit, and these false feigned mothers out of the self same ground of scripture, by their false handling b●ynge us & offer us poisoned fruit/ & yet so subtilely handled that it is hard for us to perceive either by sight or taste which is the good food and which is the poisoned, till he that taketh it come to his death by the infection.  
But now if we may once know which of all these is our very mother, then are we safe and sure. For then are we sure that as all the remanant will give us no meat but nought/ so will she give us none but good. and therefore who so love his life, will take all that she offereth us/ all though it be bitter and sour in taste and not very seemly in sight/ and refuse all that the t'other offer us, be it never so pleasant to the eye, nor never so delicious to the mouth.  
And I verily think that the thing standing in such case, our father in heaven so mighty, so merciful, and so wise as he is, and so tenderly loving his children as he doth, perceiving the peril that might and must needs fall upon them by the miss taking of some such false malicious woman in stead of our very mother, will not leave us in such case, but that he will cause our very mother to be well known from all the false counterfetes, to such as list to look and attend well thereto, both by tokens of her and also tokens of them.  
And verily good father Barons, it seemeth that ye saw this yourself full well. For it appeareth upon your words, that there is no true preacher but there as is the very church. For ye show for a perfayt token of the true church, that there as is the true preaching, there be alway some of the true church. And ye write that this token is perfayt. Now than/ if where so ever is true preaching, there is alway some of the very church/ it must needs follow to my poor wit that am but a woman, that where so ever be none of the very church, there is no tr●we preaching. And then if there be no true preaching but where there are some of the very church/ ye see what need it is that the very church be known, to the intent we may be sure where to have the true preaching/ without which we can never ye wot well l●rne the true faith, nor truly to be taught to understand the scripture. which till we do/ we be neue● able to judge which preacher of so many co●traryouse exponeth and declareth it right.  
Now wo●d frere Barns peradventure answer h●r a●d say: Therefore have I showed you lo by what tok●ns ye may perceive where some of the very church be.  
But unto that were she likely to say again: 〈…〉 father Barons well favouredly, for so fa●●e as ye 〈◊〉 ●ut I would as I said have wished you ●o have goo● ther●● somewhat ferther/ which I think verily ye ●olde ●●ue done if your laysoure would have served you. For now of your two tokens, y● tone yourself confesseth to ●e but f●ynt & insuffycyent, that is to wit good works that ar● commended 〈◊〉 scripture/ because that though it be well done ● every doubt to dame the best, yet hypocrisy may deceive us, & make us take for a good man & a member of the very holy church, some false feigning hypochryte that is a very deed member of some false church, and a limb of the very devil in deed.  
And yet over this as well that same unperfect token whereby I should have knowledge of the very church, that is to wit works according to scripture, as also the other token that ye call the perfayt token, that is to wit that in what company so ever I here the word of god truly preached, that is to wit the scripture truly declared with out any damnable dreams of men, there I may be sure that in that congregation be some of the very holy church: both these tokens s●rue but for cunning folk that are su●●ycyently learned in the understanding of the scripture all ready/ and these be they that have lest need to know the very church. But none of these tokens can serve such beginner's as I am, that have need to know the very church, to lerge of her the right understanding of the scripture, because she is our very mother as yourself calleth her. And therefore we have the need to know her, that we may be bold to take the food of doctrine at her hand, because we wot well our very mother will give us but good/ where we stand else in peril of poisoning, if by miss taking our mother we take the meat of doctrine at the hand of any of those venomous harlots, that conterfete their countenance and would we should take one of them for our mother.  
And also though the tokens both twain were sure & perfayt for so far as they go, that is to wit though that I were sure in deed that in such a company be some of the very true church: yet sith I can not know by them which persons of that company they be as ye confess I can not/ what should this knowledge avail me? It may peradventure hinder and hurt me. For if I doubted lest there were happily no such true membres of the very church in that company/ I would be the more ware of any thing that they should teach me. But now while though I know not who, yet I ween myself that I know well some of them be true/ I may percase the more boldly and with the less fere, take that the false shall offer me for the hope I may have, that I have peradventure by hap fortuned upon that person that is one of the true. For why, to use diligence and forbear haste, and be ware and believe not till I surely find and know the true/ that were by your words utterly vain. For ye say I shall never know them, nor never know farther, but that there be some of them.  
Now good readers what hath Barons holding his heresy of his unknown church, what hath he to say more to this woman? In good faith nothing that will be worth a fly. But the woman may soon find more yet to say to him. For she may say to him ferther: yet I remember me now father Batons another thing. ye will that I shall know the church by the true declaration of scripture. But how shall I be sure which be the very books of scripture? For you say plainly that the pistle of saint james is not holy scripture, and other men say yes. And ye say that ye can prove that pistle false by words of saint Poule/ and ●hen w●re ye lykele to make me to doubt as well of saint Poule as of saint James. For why should I better believe the tone than the t'other, while they were both Crystes approved apostles. For though ye say that it was of old doubted by some folk whither that pistle were written of saint james or not: yet after that doubt moved, the whole church hath firmly believed it to be his, without any doubt of any man in a thousand year together, till within this twenty year.  
And then as ye say now by that piece, so may there another come and say by another piece/ and so go about ●o prove every piece false by other, where so ever any seem to say any thing which the words of some other part seemeth contrary. And then when they shall i● this wise contend & strive thereupon/ where as ye say I shall by the true construction of the scripture perceive where be some of the very true church: how will ye first make me know which of them all assigneth me the very true scripture.  
To this when frere Barons would answer and falsely bear her in hand that the pistle of saint james hath been a●way doubted of. And that such books as have been always by the whole church taken and accepted for holy scripture, of those may she be sure that they be holy scripture/ for god giveth his church that gift, that it can truly discern the words of god from the words of man: this will I wot well frere Barons say. For this saith not only his old master saint austin, out of whose rule and religion frere Barons is run away/ but his new master also frere Luther, after whom he runneth out of religion and out of rule now.  
But when Barns would answer her so: then would she soon bring him to the bay, and tell him that the church by which she knoweth which is the scripture, is not any unknown church/ but the known catholic church of all christian nations remaining in the comen well known faith.  
And then sith she may boldly believe that church in the great point, and learneth that lessen of none other church but that, which is the first lesson of all the faith, and whereupon as frere Barons agreeth all the whole remanant dependeth, sith that by him there is nothing any sure truth but if it be written in scripture: she may therefore would she say take that church for the teacher of all the remanant / and him for a true teacher, whose faith agreeth with that church/ and those folk whose faith is contrary to that church, which shall soon be known, for they be forthwith accused and reproved upon their false preachings herd, them she may and will take for the false teachers and false expowners' of scripture, till father Barons can give her better knowledge of his holy true church unknown, whereof she is never the near yet:  
Lo thus might a wise woman that could no more but read english, rebuke and confound frere Barons upon the sight of his own rial process, in which he would now teach us to know which is the very church.  
How be it to confound him, we shall not greatly need to seek one that can read. For what hath he to say to a poor woman that could not read?  
If his own secret hostess the good wife of the bottle of botolph's warfe, that but if she be better amended halteth both in body and soul, were in the congregation present at this commening/ and then would hympe forth among them and say, by saint Malkyn father Barons all your tokens of the very true church will not stand m● in the stead of a tavern token nor of a mustard token neither. For I may for the tone be sure of a new baken bune, and for the t'other I may be sure of a pot of mustard/ but for your two tokens of your holy church, I can not be sure of one ferthing worth of true doctrine for them both. For how shall I perceive that any true members of your holy church in only whom ye say is the true faith be present in company, when your tokens be the true preaching of scripture, and the good leaving after the scripture/ how can I get any good by those two tokens when I can not read at all: what could frere Barons say to his hostess here? Surely nothing hath he/ but should in the end be fain to fall to the destiny of god's election, and say as he signifieth and somewhat mutereth in his book/ but then should he be fain to speak it out and say, that when they come to the preaching, all those that are elect of god shall be secretly moved and taught inwardly, and shall by the instinct of the spirit of god though they know not whether the person be good or no that preacheth, perceive yet the true word of god upon the hearing/ and shall understand it as Tyndale saith that the eagle perceived her prey. And the other sor●e whom god hath not chosen, though they hear it shall not understand it/ but whether the preacher be good or bad, they shallbe never the better, nor shall not discern the true preacher fro the false, but be deceived by the false and not perceive the true for any thing that they can do. And therefore every man will Barons say that shall be saved, shall attain the salvation by the only election of the lord, without any part of their own devoir any thing doing thereto, live they never so long. For though that all be called/ yet only those that god hath elected shall be saved/ and shall as our saviour saith be but a very few. And any thing that the tone sort or the t'other shall or can work, shall neither help toward nor froward/ but election and destiny shall do all together. And here this anchor in conclusion shall he be fain to cast out/ with which when he would ween to stay the sheep, he draweth it quite under the water. 
Mat●. ●.  For I ween his hostess would soon have said somewhat thereto. For I wot well she is nat ●ong ●ayed, I have herd her talk myself. She would I ween therefore have said unto him thus much a● the lest wise: why father Barns, when god calleth upon us all, and we come together at his calling my neighbour & I come both to church with one purp●●● to learn the right way to heaven/ would ye make me ween ●●at god were so partial, that without any difference of cause between her and me, I being as well wyllenge to learn to please him as she, that when I have at his calling followed him so far as well as she, & with some what more pain to, for I halt ye wot ye wot well/ he will for all that I halt make her perceive the troth and go forth farther with him, till he bring her to heaven ● & leave me still in darkness and ignorance, and let me fall into hell, for none other cause but only for he list to choose her, and leave me unchosen.  
If he gave her more than me for his only pleasure, I could find no fault. But marry sir that he would give her all & me not only nothing, but also condemn me to perpetual fire because himself would not cause me to perceive the troth/ and no cause why he would not, but because he would not choose me, and no cause why he would not choose me, but only because he would not: in good faith I take god for so good that I can never believe you therein.  

1. Timot●. 2.  yet me thinketh that these comen preachers whom you dispraise, 
●●●ch. 18. &. 33  say better. For they tell us that it is in scripture, that god would all folk should be saved and come to the knowledge of the trouh if they will themself/ & that therefore by o●e mean or other he calleth all. But he chooseth only those that will come and here and learn and do thereafter/ and who would so do, he saw ere he made them, and therefore even then chose them.  
But for because they be but few in respect of them that will not, therefore there are few chosen though many be called/ and not because god will call all, and then of those that come & are willing to learn, will cause some to be taught and some not, 
Matth. 22.  without other cause or difference, but because himself list to cheese the tone and refuse the t'other/ as though it were an evil master that would call many children to school, and when he had them there, then set diverse huyshers under him to teach them, and would make some whom he favoured causeless/ to be taught right, and suffer some whom he hated as causeless to be taught wrong/ and after come and here all their lessons himself, and those that have been taught right make much of them and cherish them because they say right, and those that have been wrong taught, all to chide them and beat thaym because they say wrong. In good faith father Barns I take god for so good, that I can not believe that he will ●o do/ but rather as these comen preachers say, that god hath provided sufficient learning for all sorts, of which they may be sure if they will come to it/ and also that of such as come and learn well in deed, yet all do not well in deed/ but by the true teaching believe and perceive the things that they should do, and yet do it not, but do many things even clean the contrary. And therefore I have heard them preach, 
〈◊〉. 12  that it is in scripture that the bond servant which knoweth not the will of his lord and do it not, shallbe beaten because of his negligence/ but except he will not know it of purpose else he shallbe beaten but a little. But he which knoweth the will of his lord and than do it not, shallbe sore beaten. And when I heard this preached, me thought it went sore against the doctrine of our brother Tyndale, that sayeth as our own brethren report in his answer to sir Thomas More/ that when the wit perceiveth a thing, the will can not chose but follow. For that is plain false, if the scripture be true that saith that a man may know the will of his lord and yet leave it undone.  
And me seemeth also that the same scripture maketh much against our brother Tyndale and our brother Fryth, and against the preaching of all our evangelical brethren concerning purgatory. For I doubt not but that many which have known the will of the lord and left it undone, and yet were never sore beaten therefore in this life/ do yet ere they die so repent that they escape from hell/ and therefore do receive the beating no where but if there be a purgatory.  
Nor it will not help that I heard once one of our brethren answer and say, that when he repenteth than he doth the will of his lord/ and therefore shall not be beaten at all. For if that scripture be as they preach it/ than though he shall not be beaten for that time when he did his lo●des will/ he shall yet be beaten for the other times in which he left his lords will undone.  
But surely father Barns as I told you, me thinketh that these common preachers say well in that poynt● that they say that god hath provided surety of doctrine, that is to say of true preaching the word of god/ and making it to be so understanden, as men may be sure that they may void all damnable error if they will, or else they were not to be blamed for falling in thereto.  
And they that tell us that we shallbe dampened but if we believe right, and than tell us that we can not know that but by the scripture, and than the scripture can not be so learned but of a true teacher, and they tell us we can not be sure of a true teacher, and so can not be sure to understand it right/ and yet say that god will damn us for understanding it wrong or not understanding at all: they that thus tell us, put me in mind of a tale that they tell of M. Henry Patenson, a man of known wisdom in London and almost every where else, which when he waited once on his master in the emperors court at Brugges, and was there soon perceived upon the sight for a man of special wit by himself and unlike the common sort/ they caught a sport in angering of him/ and out of divers corners hurled at him such things as angered him, and hurt him not. thereupon he gathered up good stonies/ not gunstonies, but as hard as they/ and those he put a pace into his bosom, and then stood him up upon a bench and made a proclamation aloud that every man might hear him/ in which he commanded every man upon their own parels, to depart except only those that horled at him, to th'intent that he might know them and hurl at them again and hurt none other body but his enemies. For who so ever tarried after his proclamation made/ he would take him for one of the horlers or else for one of their consaylers'/ and than have at their hedes who so ever they were that would abide. Now was his proclamation in english and the company that herd him were such as understood none/ but stood still and gaped upon him and laughed at him. And by & by one horled at him again. And anon as he saw that/ what horsons quoth he ye stand still everichone I ween, and not one of you will remove a foot for all my proclamation/ and thereby I see well ye be horlers or of counsel with the horlers all the whole meinie of you/ and therefore have at you all again. And with the word he hurled a great stone out at adventure among them/ he neither wist nor wrought at whom/ but lighted upon a burgonions head and broke his pate that the blood ran about his ears, and master Henry bade him stand to his harms hardly/ for why would he not beware than and get him thence bytyme, when he gave him before so fair courteyse warning.  
Now good father Barns would his halting hostess say, ye seem ●ow by your tale to make as though god almighty would use of a strange affection the same fashion that M. Henry used of folly/ that is to wit to make us a proclamation in such wise endyghted, as we can not understand it without we may be sure of a true interpreter/ and than give some of us such as him listeth, a secret privy knowledge of such one/ and all the remanant that fain would and can not find out and know the true expouner of his proclamation, for lack of that token which he keepeth from them, hurl stonies at their hedes because the fulfil it not. In good faith father Barns me thinketh therefore that this le●son that ye tech us herein is a very perilous plasphemy.  
And yet abide I remember me lo father Barns upon an other thing would she say, that if ye bring all to this point in conclusion, that there is no more but every man go where he will, and here whom he list/ & alway he that is elect shall by the inward inspiration happen upon the true preacher, and the true preaching, and the true knowledge of the very word of god, and the true understanding thereof, and only thereby get heaven/ and all the remanant for the only lack of God's election to the getting whereof themself ye say can nothing do, shall fail of all these things and fall in continual error, out of which they can have no mean possible to escape, but thereby must needs fall into eternal fire: if it thus be, ye may put up again both your tokens into your purse, for any need that any man hath of them. For they that be sure by the secret inspiration, that they be truly taught, and thereby know themself for elects, and so be sure they shallbe saved: what need they to care whither any of the very church be in that congregation or not: and on the other side, those whose destiny shallbe for lack of election to be dampened, and therefore shall not learn the troth in the congregation be there never so many of the very church therein/ they lo, to know whither there be any therein or no, can stand them in no stead at all. And thus father Barns taking your secret unknown spiritual church/ ye might spare all the labour that ye have hitherto taken in giving us tokens to know it by, for any stead that your tokens can stand us in. And therefore if ever any church here in earth shall stand us in any stead toward any surety of true doctrine, as in deed it must if any man may tell an other how he may be surely caught the troth: it must needs be in any wise some such church as needs must be known for such that a man may be sure to learn thereof.  
what would frere Barns have answered unto his hostess, if she had told him this/ and that he than had seen the other good wife her neighbour begin to gape again, as she that were yet ready to bring in some other fault yet founden ferther in his tale, as there might in good faith me seemeth many be founden, not only by learned men but even by unlearned women to, such fawtes as neither frere Barons nor all the learned heretics of all their hundred sects should be well able to void/ so strong a thing is troth, and so feeble a thing is falsshed, and so hard to be borne out and defended.  
But than would frere Barns have waxed a little warm, and bid them sit still and hold their babble, and tell them that saint Poule wist full well what he did when he would not suffer women to take upon them to preach and teach in the church, nor so much as ask a question among the congregation/ but if they doubted of any thing that they would learn, let them ask it of their own husbands at home. And so would frere Barns bid those wives do with sorrow. For if they might be suffered to begin once in the congregation to fall in disputing, those aspen levys of theirs would never leave wagging.  
But then would the wife of the bottle have answered him again quickly, and tell hy● that she had alway taken him for wiser, and would have went he could have taught better. And some sorrow would she say have I had for the favour of the sects/ and so hath my husband had to. And my lord chancellor told me that I was little better than a bawd, because I re●cyued two nuns in by night, that Iohn Byrt brought me, otherwise called Adryan specially because I kept them close in an high garet in mine house, and suffered two men to assorte up thither to them. How be it in good faith I had provided, that if they list to sleep/ the two men might if they woldly together by themself, and let the non●es alone. For there were ii beds in the garet. But yet as folk be ready to dame the worst, I was with some folk taken for half a bawd there and all for the furtherance of love between the brethren and the cistern of thevangelical sect, me thought they were in so good a way. How be it sin I see now that you father Barns that were once a doctor can say no better for it/ by our lady I bygyn so to mistrust all the matter, that save for selling of mine ale and uttering of my chaffer to get a penny by them, I wrought near though thete came never none of them any more within my door,  
Now would with this the other good honest wife of likelihood have resorted again unto her ensample of her very mother and of these false wyches/ of which every one would be taken for her mother to grow first in trust with her, and then after poison her. And then would she conclude: if it be father Barons such an unknown thing which church is my mother holy church, and then one there is with whom I was christened and hitherto brought up/ and though I see many things in her wh●ch I would wish were amended: yet for all that she counseleth me to be good, and she telleth what I must do if I will be good. How be it therein of truth all you other churches vary with her, and tell me she teacheth me wrong. But then so do you also each of you with other, and each of you telleth me that other teacheth wrong. And she telleth me the scripture proveth for her part/ and each of you saith that the scripture proveth for your own part, and that she lieth/ and each of you saith also that other lieth/ and she saith that ye lie everichone. And which of you delare the scripture truly & which untruly, passeth my capacity to perceive But than I see that the scripture which each of you would seem to constre truly, & yet each contrary to other/ you do not so much as know which it is but by the mean of her. And I see also that all you were ones with her, and be fallen at variance with her, and so be comen from her for anger. And I see that though she be not so good as I would she were/ yet for anger and envy sins ye be come from her, ye miss report her in many things, & would make her appear much worse. And I see also that such vices as are well kowen for vice, which ye find and rebuke in her, be ●yfe & well known in you selves. And I see also that many such holy men have been brought up with her, as yourself confess for saints/ and among all your churches I never heard of any one. And I see also the some thing ye teach among you, all most every one, such as all those holy saints aborted & had in abomination/ as for ensample the wedding of freres & nuns. And I see also that in our church as bad as we be, yet god continueth his miracles/ and among all your churches that be gone from ours, he worketh never one. And I see also that each of your churches would fain seem to be the true churches/ for each of yours affirmeth that only itself hath the troth, and the true church is it which only church hath the truth. And then again each of you seeth his own part so feeble and so far unable to be defended in that point, that sith no one church of all yours may be match to our church out of which ye all came, and then that each church of yours or all your churches together being each to other so contraryouse and repugnant, should be the true church, were ye wot well yourself a thing more than impossible: ye be fain for this cause to send us to an unknown church. By which sending, while ye would withdraw me from ours/ yet ye confess the contrary of all that ye go about. For ye would seem each of you to have the very troth/ and then were you the true chyrthe and the sure teachers. But now sith ye say the true church is unknown, and each of your churches is known/ it appeareth by your own tale that none of all your churches is the true church. And if it be not the true church than hath it not the true doctrine which it pretendeth/ but is one of the false churches & hath the false doctrine. And therefore if it so were in deed, that our church were not the true church, nor were not my right mother in deed/ but that the very church and my very mother were only some one such as ye would send me to seek, that is to say some unknown church: yet father Barons by your own tale it were none of all your churches. And therefore I were but a fool to leave the known catholic church, whom I have hitherto taken for my very mother, and come from her to yours, which as yourself confesseth is not the true church, and therefore not my very mother/ but that my very mother were one whom ye neither tell me where I may find her, saving that ye bid me go seek her/ and ye say she is some where abroad in the wild world, which world is a place to wide ye wot well for a woman to over walk well (and at that word would hympe halt his hosts hop forth again, and say marry sir that it were in deed for me) and also if I would wander all about to look her, yet if I happened to come in her company, ye tell me no sure mark whereby I might well know her, but only that I should perceive her to be there/ but I should not yet wit which were she, and then were she for me/ almost as good by thence. And therefore father Barons, in good faith till ye can tell me a wiser tale of my new mother/ I might think myself a ●ole, if for such a tale as you tell I would leave of mine old.  
And thus are we now good readers with these only woman using no reason but such as a woman might find, and yet such as no man may soil, comen to a point of frere Barns unperfayt tokens, by which we may so know his church, as we be never the nearer for the knowledge of it, for any knowledge that he giveth us of it.  
But now if he have not proved us his church at all/ then is he ye wot well much ferther of from making us have any knowledge of her. For he must make us first know that such one there is, before he make us know in what company some of her parts be.  
Now wot ye well that the church which he took upon him to prove, must be a church so clean and so pure without spot or wrinkle, that saint Peter may find no fault in her. Now where as he goth about to prove it by two means/ one by the scripture, and another by the doctors of the church: I have all ready proved you that all the places of scripture that he hath brought in for that purpose, he hath in such wise handled, that while he liveth he may be a shamed thereof. For they not only prove nothing for him/ but also prove clear against him.  
And all his places of the doctors of the church that he bringeth in for the prove of that purpose, I have purposely differred, because I would answer them together last at all. For sith he taketh in the point another way than Tyndale doth, or Fryth, or lightly any other heretic of them all, in laying forth for his part holy doctors of the church, to make it seem that the old holy saints say for his part: I have thought it therefore good to examine them orderly each after other/ whereby ye shall shortly perceive that the words of those holy doctors do no more prove his purpose, then do the texts that he brought of the scriptures, which as I have proved you clearly prove against him.  
His first authority be these words of sayntt austin in his fyftieth sermone, made upon the words of our lord, saying, Of christ is the church made fair. first was she filthy in sins, afterward by pardon & grace made fair. Upon these words saint austin none other meaneth, but that all the beauty of any that is in the church and in any man of the church cometh of god/ and that every man that is of the church was borne in sin/ and that all they which fro the jews or gentiles turned to god and came to the church, had before lived in sin, and were therefore filthy, till by the sacrament of baptism at their entry into the church they were purged & cleansed fro their sin by the grace and pardon of god and the sacrament of baptism, and after when they be defoiled again by sin, they be again cleansed, purged, and made fair, by grace and pardon of god and the sacrament of penance, and other holy sacraments taking their effect, strength, and virtue of Crystes passion. But he findeth not in all that sermon any word, wherein saint austin saith, that who so ever is once cleansed and made fair is never after foul/ nor that as soon as he is by any deadly sin foul, he is by and by no part of holy church. For holy church is not called holy, because every piece thereof is holy otherwise then the holiness, but because of that holiness that is in it beside/ of their profession, nor is not called fair because every part is fair, but because of such fairness as is in it beside/ as there may be some week part in a strong body, and some sore part ●n a hole body, ye & some deed part in a quick body, & some foul part in a fair body, & some whit part in a blakke body/ & in a good company some naughty folk. And in such manner spoke our saviour to his apostles, where he said, you be clean/ not that they were all clean/ for he forth with added unto it, but ye be not all clean/ meaning by judas the traitor that was one of them/ and though he was a traitor in his heart, 
johan. 13  was yet a foul unholy member of that fair holy church. Like as if a good king had in his chekker roll attending daily upon him in his household diverse & many false traitors that went about secretly to betray him, all the while they be suffered there till they be taken for their treason and put out/ they be still of the court and of the kings household. And the household, all be it that some will say there was a shrewd household, because it had such shrews in it/ yet was it for all that a good household, because it had good beside.  
And likewise as in the whole world, the varyete of good parts & bad, giveth a beauty to the whole/ so in the church of christ himself seeth how the foul parts do set out the fair, & rather bewtyfye then blemmyshe the goodliness of the whole. And though the church be of some foulke called fowl, 
Matt●. 26.  for those persons that are by deadly sin fowl therein/ as the evangelist said that the disciples murmured at the loss of the ointment whereat none of them murmured but one: so is she fair for all that in deed by the fairness that is in her, both by reason of Chryst her glorious head, and of many other fair membres that are ever in her, and by reason of the goodly composition and cunly temperature of the whole body. For which cause the church may well say of itself, the words that she speaketh in the canticles: 
Can 〈…〉  I am blacke● but yet am I beautiful. ye and though there be more fowl than fair therein, by reason whereof after the common use it might be called fowl and not fair/ as a man of Ind is called black for all his white teeth: yet is it otherwise here, for the other special causes. The tone for that be it never so unholy in living, it is called holy for that it hath holy profession, whereby it is dedicated unto Chryst. The secunde● that there is in this world none holy that goth to any other church out of it, or that will not be of it. The third cause is, for that the holiness that is in it be there never so few holy therein, is far fairer and holier, and more pleasant in the sight of god, than the foulness and unholynesse of all that are fowl & unholy therein/ specially for the beauty and holiness of the very chief & principal head thereof our saviour christ himself.  
And therefore as I say, these words of saint austin meaning none other wise by them than saint austin meant in them, make no thing in this world for frere Barons church that is as he saith so fair that it hath neither spot therein nor wrinkle/ for that saith not saint austin. And therefore this place of saint austin no thing helpeth him/ but by other places of saint austin which I shall bring you forth after, ye shall see the mind of saint austin so plainly declared in this point against frere Barns, that frere Barns shall be as weary of saint austins words, as ever he was weary of saint austins wurkes/ for weariness whereof he run out of saint austins rule.  
But first shall I peruse those other places of saint austin which frere Barns bringeth in himself. The next place of saint austin that he bringeth in is this.  Barons. 
The holy church are we/ but I do not say we as one should say we that ●e here alonely that hear me now, but as many as be here faithful christened men in this church, that is to say in this city, as many as be in this region, as many as be beyond the see, as many as be in all the whole world (for fr●m the nysing of the son till the going down is the name of god prayse●) so is the holy church our mother.  More. 
Now good readers, this text of saint austin hath frere Barns alleged to be in his sermone .99. that he made de t●mpore/ in which sermon I find it not. And lest there might have been some oversight, either in himself or in the prenter, by miss writing or by miss prenting those fygurs of algorysme, because the figure of .9. & the figure of .6. be all in manner one if they be contrary turned: I assayed them therefore every way/ and sought & read over not only .99. sermon which he assigneth, but also .96.69. and 66/ and I find his text in none of all those places/ and then to go seek tohse words throughout all saint austins works, were a great long business. For surely it seemeth that the man hath alleged his text in a wrong place, of purpose because he would not have it founden, for some thing that himself seeth of likelihood in the same sermon that would mar all his matter. wherefore till it happen me to find the place by chance in reading of saint austins wurkes/ we will take the words only which himself rehearseth/ & than prove they no piece of his purpose against the known catholic church. For saint austin doth in those words no thing else, but show that the church is not restrained unto any one country, as those heretics held which were called the donatists, which said the very church was only in Affryque, & was by god provided to rest there & spread no ferther abroad/ & for the defence of their frantyke heresy, did as frere Barns & these other heretics do now, bring forth certain words of scripture construed after their own foolish fantasy. But saint austin as I say showeth in those words, that the church is the catholic church, that is to say the universal multitude of all true christen people & all faithful christian nations where so ever they be thorough the world. Now good reder what maketh this for frere Barons purpose in proof of his unknown church, against the known catholic church? well he woteth him sel●e that the known catholic church, doth not say that the church is nor can be but in one country/ but he well knoweth that by the known catholic church, that false heresy of the donatists is as fully condemned as are these other false heresies of his.  
yes saith Barns/ for here ye may see lo, that neither pope nor cardinal be no more of this church than the poreste man in earth. why who said him ever nay thereof? But what is that to the purpose? for as a poor man is as well of the church as is the pope/ so is a cordener as well an english man or a french man, as is the king of either other country. But yet like as reason will not agree, that the cordener in his country bear as much rule as the king: so will it not agree with reason, that every man in the church bear as much rule as the pope/ whom frere Barons doth himself here in this same process of the church knowledge and confess for Christ's vicar in the church.  
And therefore it is all beside the purpose that he runneth forth still in this purpose, and allegeth these words of Lyranus. The church doth not stand in men by the reason of spirit: all power or secular dignity/ for many princes and many popes and other inferior persons have swerved fro the faith. wherefore that church doth stan●e in th●se persons, in whom is the true knowledge and confessy●n of faith and verity.  
These words of Lyre hath Barns alleged to be written in his exposition upon the xix chapter of saint Matthew. But I have looked over Lyre upon all that chapter/ and there find I no such saying. And therefore of likelihood Barns playeth here with Lyre, as he playeth with saint austin in the place that he alleged before/ that is to wit allegeth it in a wrong place, because he would not have it found for fere of some thing that would appear upon the place red and considered.  
But upon these words of Lyre, he maketh a great exclamation and crieth out. Oh my lords what wyl● ye say to Lyr● I have great marvel that you burn him not. It is high time to condemn him for an heretic. For he speaketh against your law. 24. Q●ua s●●n● prima Quodcunque, where as your gloze declareth that god suffereth not the Rome c●i●che to err/ and Lyra saith plain that many popes have erre●, and also that the church standeth not in dignity but in consessyon of christ & o● his blessed verity.  
Barns would here seem lo to have founden a great thing in Lyre his word. But in good faith I find nothing here in Barons own words but his own double folly. first he sayeth Lyre condemneth the law/ and than he showeth that he speaketh not against the law but against a gloze. Is n●t that word wisely proved?  
Then see yet how wisely he proveth that Lyre reproveth the gloze, he saith that the gloze saith that god suffereth not the church of Rome to err, and Lyre sayeth plain that many pope's have erred. And what than? Lyre ●ayth not that the church of Rome hath erred, nor Lyre saith not that the pope of Rome is the whole church of Rome/ no more than the bishop of London is the whole church of London, or the archbishop of Canterbery the whole church of the province.  
Now where Lyra saith that the church standeth not in the dignity, but in the confession of christ and his blessed verity: what saith he other than all the hole catholic church agreeth/ not only the good folk but the naughty to as many as any wit have to perceive the thing. Like as a city and a realm standeth not so much by the dignity of the rulers, as it standeth by wisdom, good order, true dealing, and justice. But yet as these things would fail in a city and in a realm●, if there were no rulers to see them kept/ ye and the rulers being of a right second sort, yet would the people be much worse if they were all without. And the people is therefore bound to obey them, and not every lewd fellow to jest and rail upon them: so is it in the whole church also. And therefore no man findeth any fault with Lyra, neither to burn him nor to be angry with him/ but every good man hath good cause both to be angry and to burn up to, such pestilent seditious persons as not only by jesting, railing, and bylinge all those that are in dignity, provoke to rebellion the people that should obey them/ but also under pretext of teaching the true faith, labour to destroy the true faith, and infect good christian people with false poisoned heresies. And among all those, one of the very worst sort, and whereupon all the remanant are in a manner builded, would under colour of bearing favour to the good virtuous people that are in the church, make men believe that the whole church whereof those good men be part, were not the church in deed, because they would have it unknown that men might have no surety of any true doctrine, but that heresies might pass uncontrolled, while every lewd fellow might conster the scripture as himself list, & no church provided of god, to control him and judge who construed wrong, & by which church men might be sure of the necessary troth.  
And yet to make it the more uncertain and the more unsure/ Baron's bringeth the church here in earth to that kind of goodness, that except such as be new crystened or very young, and yet scant they either, which be not yet ye wot well very meet to be made preachers: else saint austin whom Barons bringeth for him, saith plain against him, that there is in earth no such/ as I shall a none by his plain words prove you.  
But first for the place of saint austin which of Barons bringing in I last rehearsed you/ ye see that saint austin saith in them no more, but that the church was not only the christian people present at his sermone, nor only those christian people & were in that city, nor only those that were in Afryke, but also all the faithful christian people that were in the world beside. In which words he saith so little for frere Barns purpose, that I which dispute against him, say the same thing myself, that all christian nations professing the true faith of christ, that is to say the comen catholic faith wherein the known catholic church agreeth, be the very holy church of christ here in earth, and make among them the comen known catholic church/ of which the very good men are part, and are all called the faithful people of christ, because of the unity of the true faith of christ. In which as for the necessary points this whole corpse agreeth without contradiction and repugnance both good people and bad. And therefore are they called all by that name, to make a distinction and severance between that one catholic church of one belief and faith on the tone part, and all miscreant paynims, all false jews, all false heretyques, and all seditious scysmatyques upon the other part: of all which as no sect agreeth with other/ so do they all impugn the true faith of the known catholic church/ in which and of which be also all the unknown good virtuous people, that have true charity with their faith. But saint austin meaneth not, that like as all the church be faithful, that is to say agreeing together in the true belief, so they be all the meinie virtuous in all points bysyde/ and specially so fully virtuous and holy● as holy frere Barons appointeth pure and clean without spot or wrinkle.  
For letting other places of saint austin alone for the while/ look but upon this place only that we be in hand with all/ which if I might find once in his proper place, I should I ween see farther things therein. But now consider no more for our purpose against Barns, but even the beginning of saint austin words as Barons bringeth them in himself. Lo thus he beginneth. The holy church are we/ but I do not say we as one should say we that be here all only, but as many as be faithful christian men in this church etc. How think you good readers. Doth saint austin here mean by faithful christian, no more but only such as this faithless frere assigneth/ that is only those that are not only faithful in the believing the necessary points of the christian faith, but that were in their soul also bysyde so thoroughly pure and clean, that they had not so much as either spot or wrinkle in them. As though saint austin would say to his audience in his sermon in this wise: will ye know good christian people who be true members of holy church. That shall I shortly show you lo. Not every body that believeth right/ but we, that is to say you and I that not only believe right, but also be holy pure & clean without either spot or wrinkle.  
But yet when I say we be the church: I mean not you & I only, as though there were no more of the church but myself and such other of you, as being at my sermon be such holy men as I am/ but also all such other as be so pure and clean without spot or wrinkle, as you & I be, where so ever they be, either in this town or in this country, or else where in all this wide world.  
Lo good readers/ if saint austin meant as Barns maketh, that in this word faithful christian folk making the whole church, he meant not all christian people that agree in profession of faith with the whole corpse of christendom, but only such as besides the profession of the true faith, were also so holy, pure, and clean, that they neither have spot nor wrinkle: then were this tale in effect as I have rehearsed you, that he called himself such a perfit holy man/ which word I ween never man heard of his mouth.  
For there is no christian man, but he may and must profess of himself, that he believeth right and hath the true faith. But there be not I suppose many good holy men, that will say of themself, that they be holy, pure, & clean, and specially without spot or wrinkle. And therefore it appeareth well, that this word faithful christian folk, is not always taken and meant by him that speaketh it, for only pure and clean holy men. And so those words of saint austin nothing make for frere Barons.  
And therefore ye may see that in likewise doth Barons miss take the gloze that he allegeth dis. 24. A recta/ which saith that the church which can not err, is ecclesia omnium fidelium, that is to say the church of all faithful folk. which words frere Barons taketh, as though the writer there by these word (all faithful men) had meant no more but all such as were not only true believers, but also such as were so pure and clean that they neither had spot nor wrinkle. But the writer of that gloze meaneth nothing so/ but meaneth as saint austin meant in his words before rehearsed, calling all faithful folk, all christian people all the christian nations ● all the whole corpse and body of the catholic church, that against paynims, jews, heretyques, and schismatics, agree in the profession of the comen christian faith, both in the points of belief/ and in the rules of living/ though their living have in deed many spots, and many blots, and many writhen wrinkles against the rules which they profess, and which they knowledge and confess themself bounden to keep. And that the gloze there meaneth of our known catholic chy●ch as I say, and not of any unknown church as Barons would have it seem: every man may perceive that can and will consider well the place. For in that gloze his purpose is no more, but to show that there is more surety of doctrine in the consent of the whole church, that is to wit the whole corpse of christendom together, then in the church of Rome alone. And therefore that gloze can nothing serve frere Barons/ but it utterly destroyeth frere Barons false glozing of saint austin's words, & openeth well unto us what thing saint austin meant in this word, all faithful men. For surely neither saint austin nor that gloze, meant by these words omnium fidelium, men clean and pure without any spot or wrinkles, no more than doth every man that prayeth pro omnibus fidelibus, that god may make them all good men/ or pro animabus omnium fidelium defunctorum, that it may please god to bring them to heaven all such as are in the painful way thither ward/ men do not mean in the prayers only such faithful folk as neither have spot nor wrinkle of sin.  
Now where that the gloze saith, there must needs be such a church so say I to. For I say plainly that the church must needs be. For all the devils in hell, nor all their instruments upon earth, shall never be able to destroy it, but pull they never so many from it, & leave they the remanant never so few: yet shall the remanant always be the church, and a well known church, to builded upon that high mountain, that is to wit upon christ, that it shall always be syghtely & can not be hid. For as our saviour saith: The city that is set upon a mountain can not be hid/ meaning that his church should be well seen, and his true faith well known/ and not that his church in which his faith should continue, and in which & of which it should be learned, should be such an unknown thing as they that would learn: could neither wot where to find it, nor of whom to ask for it, nor so much as know it if it fortuned them to fall upon it by hap, as frere Barons would here bring it to.  
Also the other gloze that Barons bringeth forth, De pene dis. 2. Si, that saith, The whole church can not err: what maketh that gloze for Barons? He speaketh against Barons. For Barons saith that his own church which himself assigneth, though she can not err while she cleaveth to her spouse/ yet she may leave him and fall from him, and then err. And so this gloze that Barns bringeth, saith clear against him/ how be it no more than he seemeth to do himself. For if it be true that he saith of his church that she may fall from god and not hear her husband, and then thereby err: then is it false that he saith in another place, that there must needs be such a church as can not err/ which thing he would prove by this gloze of the law that saith, The whole church can not err. And yet ye see well that this gloze taking it after the best fashion for it, saith not as Barons sayeth, that the very church is no more but that very secret sort of faithful folk that be without any error, and that be pure & clean without spot or wrinkle/ but he saith that the whole church that is to wit the known catholic church, can not all err/ but that though that god would suffer some partis or members of his church to err, yet he will not suffer the whole corpse or body of his church to err. This maketh plain against Barons, that bringeth it forth. For it affirmeth that the truth alway remaineth in the known catholic church/ for of the known church he speaketh there.  
I can not therefore marvel enough of Barns in bringing forth these gloss for him, that make so clear against him/ and than to see him so boldly say thereupon, These words be plain what church it is that can not err. As though these gloss had said as he saith, that the church which can not err is only the unknown church of folk pure & clean without any spot or wrinkle/ of which things neither nother gloze speaketh one word. And yet where Barns saith: These words of these gloss be plain: as plain as he maketh them of themself/ yet hath himself made a plain change of one word in the tone of them, to make it seem the more plain for him. For where he rehearseth the gloze by these words: The hole church can not err/ this word err is not there/ but the very words be, The whole church can not fail. Than be not ye wot well those words err & fail, precysely & plainly both one, neither in writing nor in voice, nor yet in signification/ no more than the two latin words errat and deficit. For a man may fail & yet not err. As he that doth adultery & woteth well he doth nought/ he faileth and falleth from god, & yet erreth he not in faith.  
A man may also err & yet not fail nor fall away fro god/ sith every error is not damnable, As a man might err and not fail nor fall fro god thereby nor be dampened therefore/ as jacob did in weening that Lya had been Rachel/ or as his father Isaac did in weening that jacob had been Esau.  
But I say not this, for that I care much for his change But I mean that I would not have him come forth and make such great boasts of the plainness of the words, when he hath himself made a change in them, to make them seem the more plain for him/ and when the words for all his plain change, make yet so plain against him.  
But verily me thinketh that in one thing he useth no good honest fashion, in that he saith first: This may be proved by our own law, whose words be these: the whole church can not er●e. Also in an other place. The congregation of faithful folk must needs be which also can not err.  
All they that read these words of Barns in english, he maketh th●●m ween that the words which he rehearseth for his purpose, were the words of the very law it self, but then are they in deed no words of the lawe● but of certain gloss that other men have made upon the law. And this himself confesseth in the mergent of his book. But that he doth in latin/ letting them that understand no latin ween still that ●t were the very laws. why doth he boast that he will prove it by the very laws/ & than in stead of the laws, bring us forth but gloss.  
His quotacyon is in the mergyn in this manner. De pene. dis. 2. Si in glossa. For these words, The whole church can not err. And than for the other words, that is, The congregation of faithful men must needs be, which also can not err/ his quotacyon is in the mergent thus .24. que. 1. A recta et in glossa. So that he would we sholl ween that at the lest wise those words were both in the text and in the gloze.  
But now who so look upon these two laws, shall soon see that the cause why he did not, was because he durst not. For the law .24. que. 1. A recta, speaketh clear against him. For that law saith no thing else, but that the very true faith without error, hath been ever preserved in the see apostolic/ and as the law calleth it there, the mother of all churches the church of Rome. And therefore this law ye see well was not for his purpose to bring in/ but in stead of the law he layeth us forth a pache of the gloze.  
Now the other law de pene. dis. 2. Si/ that law durst he not bring forth for fere of angering his evangelical brother Tyndale. For that law is the words of holy saint Hierom/ wherein he confuteth at great length, those heretics that than held the self same heresies that Tyndale holdeth now, that they which be once borne of god can never after sin. And the t'other, that he which after his baptism doth once any deadly sin, shall never get forgiveness after. These two devilish heresies which Tyndale hath now begun again in his false exposition of the first pistle of saint Iohn which false exposition of his I have before confuted in my fourth book: holy saint Hierom doth at good length openly confute, in the words which are there by Graciane incorporate in the decrees. which words if myself had remembered in time/ I would have brought them in, in the stead of mine own, and would peradventure have left mine own out for them. For there sayeth saint Hierome the self same things against those other heretics of old, that I say there against this new/ and (as he better could) saith them far better than ever I shallbe able/ as I would make you soon perceive if I could in translating his words into our english tongue, give it the quyknesse and strength that he giveth it in the latin.  
But as I said, this law durst not frere Barns bring in for fere of Tyndale, which would for hurting of his heresies have founden him brawling enough for all his life after. But Barns will I warrant you give him no such occasion of displeasure.  
Now if Barons answer me, that he had no cause to bring in any of both those laws, sith they made no thing for his purpose but the gloss only: I shall tell him again, that than he should not have said it that he would prove his purpose by the laws, but by the gloss only. And I say also that than he should have left out the gloss to. For as the laws prove not his purpose, no more do the gloss neither, as I have clearly declared you.  
And yet when he hath handled himself so falsely, and yet so foolishly therewith in the alleging of these laws, that if he had any spark of shame left in his body, he might not well look any man in the face for fere that these his false follies were espied: it is now a world to see with what a courage and boldness he boasteth and rejoiceth, and what a joy he maketh, as he were even made a king by the finding of a been in a chrystmas cake. For now he calleth his lords about him and saith, Now my lords gather you all together with all the laws that ye can make, and all the holiness that you can devise, and cry, the church, the church, and the counse●s, the counsels that were lawfully gathered in the power of the holy ghost (all this may you say and yet lie) And if you have not in deed the holy ghost within you, and if you do hear any other voice than Christ's/ than are you not of the church but of the devil, and thiefs and murderers as christ saith. For you come afore him/ that is you come into the fold of Chryst without him you bring not his voice/ but you come with your own voice, with your own statutes, with your own word, and with your own ●andamus, mandamus, praecipimus, praecipimus, excommunicamus, excommunicamus. These be the voices of murderers and thiefs and not of christ. Therefore you can not but err. For you be not taught of god/ you have not the holy ointment, you have not the word of god for you/ you here not the voice of the true sheaperd. Therefore must you needs err in all your counsels.  
what ground or colour of ground hath he to reign so lordly and rail so rially upon all the laws? May he so boldly set them all at nought, because himself hath so falsely bylyed twain, and so foolishly handled their gloss. No sultan in a stage play may make more bragging bosties, nor run out in more frantic ragys', than may frere frantic Barns if he take this for reason. For here speaking of laws, and laying but the gloss/ and the laws against him, and his gloss nothing for him: yet as though all the world were his, he falleth forth in a rage against all laws, and all general counsels/ and saith, They have not the voice of god with them/ but they must needs err in all their counsels, by cause they say mandamus, mandamus, praecipimus, praecipimus, excommunicamus, excommunicamus. For he saith that these words be the voices of murderers and thiefs and not of christ.  
This fellow cometh forth with a proud face upon all the world, when he would by his princely authority more than an imperial majesty, proclaim all men for murderers and thiefs, that dare be so bold as to use any of these words mandamus, precipimus, or excommunicamus. These words I see not sent out by murderers nor thiefs, but by princes and rulers against murderers and thiefs and against all other vicious and miss ruled persons, and among other against ungracious heretics, which is all this man's grief.  
And that these words of commanding have been used by folk somewhat better than thiefs and murderers, may appear by the scripture itself. For the holy eu●ngelyste saint Mark sayeth of our saviour thus: He commanded his apostles that they sholl carry no thing with them as they went by the way. And saint Poule writeth unto the Thessalonyes in this wise: O my brethren, I trust in god of you that ye keep and will keep all things that I have commanded you. And again to Timothe thus he saith: I command the before god etc.  
And thus frere Barns may see, that the words of commanding, be not alway the voice of murderers and thiefs.  
But all the great grief of this matter is in excommunicamus. For that word would frere Barns have dampened. But yet must he consider that saint Poule himself used either that same word or some other in the language that he spoke, when he did excommunicate and accurse Hymineus and Alexander, and betook them to the devil to teach them to leave their blasphemy, such as these heretyques use now, and yet peradventure less/ for greater it could not be.  
saint Poule also commanded the Corynthies, that they should excommunicate and accurse out of their company, 
1. 〈◊〉. 5.  that incestuous lecherour that had abused his own fathers wife. For thus he saith in the first pistle to the Corynthies Truly I being absent in body but yet present in spirit, have all ready determined as though I were present, of him that hath thus done, when you are gathered together and my spirit in the name of our lord jesus christ, in virtue of our lord jesus, deliver him to the devil for the punishment of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of our lord jesus christ.  
God also did accurse and excommunicate lucifer and all his proud fellows out of heaven. 
〈…〉  But because there needed no voice in that/ therefore will frere Barons say that there was none excommunicamus. But yet at the day of judgement, our saviour shall say to them that will do no good works, but ween by frere Barns doctrine that only faith should save them/ to them shall he say: Go ye cursed wretches into everlasting fire, which is prepared for the devil and his angelis. Here shall our saviour himself use an excomunicamus/ from which I pray god for his mercy so mend frere Barons and me both, that we fall not in it. For that is a sorer excommunicamus than any man useth now/ wherewith many shallbe murdered in soul, not by any cruelty upon his part, but by justice thorough their own deeds. And therefore excommunicamus is not the voice of only murderers and thiefs, as frere Barns maketh it.  
But surely good readers ye must pardon him. For it apreth that the man was in a sore fit of a fury, when he fell in to this rage/ the fumes whereof ascended so hot up to his head, that he raved and wist near what he said. And in that disease he can not tell how much harm he doth himself, with letting his crown grow so. For his here keepeth his head to hot. It were more need in such a fit of fury, for feet of breeding some impostume in his brain, to poll his head of every whit, and let it lie bare, and lay there to refrigerans Galen●, tend it well with oxirodanon.  
Here ye see that in this heat he sayeth all the counsels must err. How be it in another place at such time as his fit was not so sore upon him, he saith no more but that all the counsels may err/ because that though there be some good men in it, yet the whole assemble doth but represent the church, and all the whole catholic church is not there in deed. For thus he saith, ●ather all your counsels together, and yet of them c●n ye not make holy church. But peradventure there may b● many in your counsels good a●d perfit men and of holy church. But they and you together make us● the v●yuersall holy church that can not err. And in another place Barns saith, It can not help to say that the counsel can not err, because that christ did pray for his church that her faith should not fail. For I answer to 〈◊〉, that though the general counsel do represent the hole universal church, nevertheless in very deed there is not the very universal church but representative. ●or the universal church standeth in the election of all faithful men. And all faithful men of the world make the universal church, whose head and spouse is Crys●e jesus. And the pope i● but the vicar of christ, and not the very head of the church. This is the church that can not err etc.  
By these sword of his ye may good readers perceive two things. One that there shall never general counsel (be it never so great and be it never full) have any full credence or ●ny great authority with frere Barons, in any thing that shallbe there concluded, if any one man, ye or woman either, of all the whole catholic church though the church were now all the whole world, were absent from the treating thereof.  
Now this point ye wot well would soon be ●ased/ no more but the counsel house if it be happily somewhat to little, let make it in god's name so much the larger. For other let I can see none. For as for coming together from all countries to the general counsel, frere Barns seeth well that may be done well enough. For why not as well as freres from all places to a general chapter? And as for robbing of any man's house while he were from home, were a thing out of fere. For while they must come all the mayny man, woman, & child/ who shall tarry behind to rob his neighbours house? And to put doubts that some shall peradventure be sick and may not come/ this were but finding of a knot in a ryshe. For come they must whither they may or no. For else is there not the counsel of the whole church, and then may it err●, and therefore will not Barns believe it.  
Now as for vyctuales/ they may provide at home and bring with them in bags and botelles, every man for three days at the lest, as the scots do for a skirmish.  
The other point is, that ye may see by these wordish that if all the whole church were at the counsel/ then would frere Barons agree that it could not err/ and so would he therefore give undoubted credence thereunto, and believe that such a general counsel could not be damnably deceived in the construction of scripture.  
Now think I that though frere Barons will not believe any general counsel, but if the whole church be there yet he looketh not that in any counsel every thing should stay, and nothing pass till all the whole assemble were agreed so fully upon one side, that there were not so much as any one man there of the contrary mind. For though some one man might in some one matter be of a better mind at the first than the multitude/ yet in a counsel of wise men when it were purposed, it were likely to be perceived and allowed. And in a counsel of christian men in spirit of god inclineth every good man to declare his mind, and inclineth the congregation to consent and agree upon that that shall be the best, either precysely the best, or the best at the lest wise for the season: which when so ever it shall be better at any other time to change the same spirit of god inclineth his church either at a new counsel, or by as full and whole consent as any counsel can have, to abrogate the first & turn it into the better. But when the counsel and the congregation agreeth and consenteth upon a p●ynt/ if a few wilful folk, far the lest both in number, wit, learning, and honest living, would reclaim and say that themself would not ●●●e, yet were their frowardness no let unto the determyn●●yon or to the making of the law/ but that it must stand t●●l it be by another like authority changed.  
But these changes that I speak of, I mean in things to be done & not in truths to be believed. For in diverse times, diverse things may be convenient/ and diverse manners of doing. But in mate●s of belief & faith, which be trovehes revealed & declared by god unto man/ though that in diverse times there may be more things farther and farther revealed, and other than were desclosed at the first: yet can there never any thing be by god revealed after, that can be contrary to any thing revealed by himself before. And therefore in things to be d●ne, frere Barns may find that diverse counsels ha●e in diverse times diversely determined. But in arty●les of faith, as necessary articles to be believed/ frere Baron's shall never find while he liveth, that any one general counsel orderly called together, impugned and reproved another/ that grace our lord be ●hanked hath he given his known catholic church ●uer hitherto, what so ever frere Barons babble.  
And when god shall give me another leisure after such other things done as I have intended first: I purpose to make this point appear well & plain, by the self same counsels that frere Barns hath brought in for the proof of the contrary. And that shall I then make plain & open to men unlearned. For as for such as are learned in the matter/ may now all ready perceive that this that I have even now all ready said, soileth concerning the counsels, all that ever frere Barons hath said in all his process.  
But now because frere Barns saith that the cause why the counsels may err, is because they be not the whole catholic church, but only by way of representation/ and saith that the whole universal church standeth in the election of all faithful men/ and that all faithful men of the world make the universal church, whose head and spouse is christ jesus, and the pope vicar under christ, and confesseth and saith that this church can not err: letting now pass therefore for the while that he seemeth before to say the contrary, where he saith of this same church, that by falling from her spouse she may err, let us now for Baron's pleasure im●gyne that this same church that he speaketh of, that ●s to 〈◊〉 all the faithful people from all parts of the wo●●de/ and because we would be sure there should be none of them all th●●se, let us take it that all the christian nations were from all places upon one fair day comen into some one fair plain field, whereof I know none fairer than the plain of Salysbury/ providing that for fear of a rain the whole plain have a fair roof set upon it/ for less I ween then the whole plain were to little/ for we must put that there were ●ot only all the men, but also all the women to, for they be part of this universal church/ a●d we will not only take in here all the christian nations, but also who so ever cry●ten man or woman were in any nation yet unchristened, or who so ever in any such place had a christian purpose, & favoured the name and faith of christ with intent to be chrystened. And yet because I would be out of all brabeling with Barns, we would take in to the number, not only all false secret heretics openly professing the christian faith and secretly mutering the con-contrary, of which wretches there be some in the known catholic church all way/ but also all false open heretics, and schismatics, which by plain profession on of their schisms and heresies, are gone out or cast out of the known catholic church, & are known for her mortal enemies. lest Barns would as I say pretend that all they or some of them, were of the very church/ we will take in them to. And now I trow we have a full assembly of the whole church, and rather more to, than left any one out.  
But yet this general counsel would I not have holden at this day. For all thought I miss trust not, but that god would work all well enough by the mean of the good men though there were many bad therein: yet to th'intent that frere Barons should the more fully be satisfied and put the less doubt therein, I would the counsel were in some time, before the time that these folk say the church was led in to error. And sith they call that time the time of this viii hundred years last passed: let us take the time in which saint Gregory was pope/ for that is now more than ix hundred year a go. And saint Gregory was a good man and a good pope, and so good that I think none heretic dare for shame say the contrary.  
Now let us than suppose also that there had in the same time been a fond frantyke frere, and that his name had been Luther/ and that there had than also been a naughty nun, and that her name had been Cate/ & that this fond frantyke frere had wedded this naughty nun/ and that there had been than one wyllyam Tyndale, that had been so mad as to say they did well, because the frere himself for the defence of his own lechery, had told him that by the scripture he might lawfully do it/ and that there had be●e than also an other frere called Robert Barons, that miss liked it not/ but was himself also run out of religion, abjured of heresy, and perjured by relapse, and roiled about like a lay man, railing against religion and all the known catholic church, in contempt of his vow and his oath to/ and of all good christian people upon earth, and wythdrawy●ge their honour from all the saints in heaven.  
Suppose me now that in this full general counsel of the whole universal church assembled, this matter were proponed, and there the same frere Frappe and Kytte Cate his mate, and those other that would allow them were brought forth to be herd/ being at that time but these persons that I have rehearsed you, what they would say thereto. And thereupon Luther himself having the words whereof he would never lack plenty (till frenzy lack folly) would there not only defend, but also boast his bestely marriage and say that vows of chastity could bind no man, for no man ought to make them/ but it were sin and presumption for any man to make them, but if he had that gift given him of god, for it is a thing which every man can not do, and a gift which no man can give himself, but if it be given him of god. And therefore who so maketh any such vow, weening that he have the gift because he feeleth no contrary grudge at that time/ yet when so ever he feeleth after any flessh●ly motion in his frail membres, he may then perceive well and be very sure, that he hath not the gift/ and that therefore he was deceived by the devil, when he made himself a frere. And that he may now therefore run out of his religion, and follow the flesh. And when he findeth a nun that feeleth the like, and that each of them feel other, and like well each other for their feeling faith/ than may they both be sure that they may boldly break both their vows, and wed themself together. And therhy shall they feel by their fleshly feeling faith, that they two be two special elects predestinate by god before the world was wrought to go together in this world and bring forth holy fruit to serve the devil at his dinner.  
what would the general counsel of the whole church have said unto that frere, and what unto flekke his make, and what unto that deuely●h doctrine? There would saint Gregory have used those words that he writeth of Ananyas and Saphyra, saying: Ananias vowed his money unto god, which money afterward he being overcome by the persuasion of the devil kept back, ye know with what manner death he was punished. wherefore sith he was death worthy that withdrew from god the money which himself had given to god: consider how great jeopardy thou shalt be worthy at the divine judgement, that wythdrawest not money, but thyself from almighty god/ unto whom thou hast vowed thyself under a religious habit.  
And I dare boldly say that all that whole general counsel of all the whole catholic church of all faithful folk with all the secret unfaithful folk the than were lurking in it, ●●d all the faithless heretics that were at that time gone from it or accursed out of it, except the frere and his nun and his few foolish adherentes/ would with one voice, with mandamus, mandamus, precipimus, precipipimus, excommunicamus, excommunicamus, have condemned that abominable heresy to the very devil of hell.  
And I am sure that so would it have been, if any man durst there have holden any one of many other heresies, that these fellows hold now.  
Than what might Luther and Barns have said to that general counsel. For that were the counsel that could ●ot err. For there were the whole catholic church in which number we●e both the church of all elect repentant sinners that Tyndale deviseth, and the church of all faithful people that Bar●s deviseth/ saving for lack of all spots and wrinkles, for that la●keth no man in this world. How be it if there were at that time any such as Barns saith there must needs be/ than in that counsel they must needs be. For thereto have we brought all both the good and the bad.  
How if frere Barns, & frere Luther, and wyllyam Tindale, would than have said that the very church did not condemn them/ for the very church was not that great multitude that there condemned them of heresy/ but the very church was themself that there were condemned and persecuted for the truth, and such other good faithful folk as were unknown among that company, and secretly agreed with them in faith, that no vow of chastity should let them, but that freres and nuns might lawfully wed when they list: To this would saint Gregory sone have answered & said sirs they that are the good faithful folk that ye speak of/ which only folk for faith and goodness ye call the church, can not be dissemblers of their faith but professors of their faith. But now except yourself/ all this people condemn your faith for heresy. wherefore it appeareth that either they be good men and say as they think, and than be you condemned by good men/ or else if they say as they think, and the thing that they think is nought/ than are they evil men/ and than are they not your secret church of good men. Or else they say one thing and think the contrary/ and than are they evil men also/ and so none of your secret church of good men they neither. Or finally they say true and be euy●● folk for other synnies/ and than be they yet none of your secret church of good men, and also do rightfully condemn you in that they say true. And therefore either we that here excommunicate you from us the the very church, or some part of us is the church/ and whither of the two so ever it be, ye be than condemned by the whole church which ye confess can not err: or else is there none other shy●●e, but sith ye have here no more fellows, ye must needs affirm that ye your own self be the very church, and no more persons but yourself.  
To this must it needs have comen ye see well good readers, there were none other remedy. And when it were once comen unto that/ than were it no doubt but that Luther, Barns, & Tyndale, would not have letted to say/ Marry we with Luther's wife ●he nun be the whole church. For we have the right faith, & ye be all in the wrong. For we have the scriptures for us/ by which we will prove the vow of chastity unlawful, & our wedding lawful/ and so forth in such other articles, as far out of colour as that. And sith the scripture is on our part/ we be the very church.  
saint Gregory would have lacked none answer to this/ but would have said: when all we think that ye understand the scripture wrong/ and not only we, but all learned men before us hitherto: why should we believe that you few see ferther in the scrypturre than all they to whom it belongeth as well as to you few, & which have studied it as well as you, and have had both as much wit as you and also ●yche more grace than you, as appeareth well by the writings of holy doctors & saints that cons●rewed the scripture against your heresies before all our days.  
If Barons would then have said as saith here whither you that are this counsel that here condemn us be the very church or no et must be tried by the scripture/ for that is the thing by which we must know the very church, which may be proved by the words of saint Chrysostome which be these.  Barns. 
They that ●e in judea, let them i'll up in to the mountains/ that is to say, they that be in christendom, let them give themself to scriptures. ●herfore commandeth he that all christened men in that time, should fly unto scriptures. For in that time in the which heresies ●a●e obtained in to the church/ there can be no true probation of christendom, nor no nother refuge unto christian men, willing to know the ●eryte of faith, but the scriptures of god. Af●re by many ways was it s●●we● which was the church of christ, and which was the congregation of gentiles. But now there is none other way to know unto them that will know which is the very true church of christ, but alonely by scriptures. By works first was the church of christ known when the conversation of christian men other of all or of many were h●ly/ the which holiness had not the wicked men, but now christian men be as evil or worse than heretics or gentylies/ ye and gre●ter cōtin●n●ye is ●●unde among them than among christian men. Wherefore ●e that will know which is the very church of christ/ how shall he know but by scriptures only. Wherefore our lord considering that so great confusyon of things, should come in the latter days/ therefore commandeth he that christian men which be in christendom willing to reserve the steadfastness of true faith should fly unto none other thing but unto scriptures/ for if they have respect unto other things they shall be slandered and shall perish/ not understanding which is the true church etc.  
These words need no exposition, they be plain enough, they do also exclude all manner of learning sauy●ge h●ly scripture/ wherefore se how you can with honesty save your holy laws/ and defend them against Chrysostome. More over if Chrysostome complain of the incontynency that was in his days/ how would he complain if he now lived, and saw the boudry and fornication that is in the church. Also he sendeth men to scriptures th●t will know the holy church/ and not unto the holy church, for in the church were heresies but not in scripture.  
Also saint Paul witnesseth the same saying/ you are bylte upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets/ here have you plainly that the very true church is grounded ye and ●ounded of holy scripture/ and therefore where so ever that the word of god is preached/ that is a good token that there be some men of Christ's church. But now as to the fruits and works of this church, she doth alonely fetch out her manner of living/ and all her good works out of the holy word of god/ ●nd she feigneth not no● dreameth any other new holiness or ne●e in●ented works that be not in scripture, ●ut she is ●●●●●nt with Christ's learning, and believeth that Chryst hath s●f●ycyently taught her all manner of good works that be to the honour of our heavenly father. Therefore inventeth she none ●ther way to heaven but followeth christ only/ in suffering oppressy●●s and persecutions, blasphemings, and all other things th●t may be laid unto hy●/w●yche as saint Abstain saith she leaned ●f o●r master Crys●. Our holy mot●●r ●he church thorough ●ut all the world scattered 〈◊〉 and long/ in her tr●w ●●ade christ jesus t●ught/ hath leaned not to ●ere the con●umelys of the cross nor yet ●f d●th, but more and more is she strengthened, not in resisting but in suffering.  
Now my lords compare yourself to this rule of saint Austryne/ and let us see how you can ●rynge yourself into the church? or●●es to prove yourself to be holy? The church s●f●erth persecutions (for as saint Paul saith/ they that will live devoutly in christ must suffer persecution) and you withstand all things and suffer nothing/ you oppress every man, and you will be oppressed of no man/ you persecute every man, and no man may speak a word against you, no though it be never so tr●we/ you cast every man in prison, and no man may touch you but he shall be cursed/ you compel every man to say as you say, and you will not once say as christ saith/ and as for your holiness all the world knoweth what it is, for it standeth in clothing and in de●kynge, in watching and sleeping, in eating and in drinking this meat or that mea●e; this drink or that drink/ in pattery●g and mumbling these psalmis or that psasmis with out devotion. Briefly all your holiness is in hokes, bells, candles, chalices, oyse, cream water, horses hounds pallycis, and all that is mighty and glorious in the world there on hang you, there in glory you/ there on crack you/ there on ●oste you/ thereupon byelde you. Is this the natures of the church? is this holiness? of ●home have you learned this manners?  More. 
If frere Barns had alleged all this in that general counsel/ saint Gregory could not have told him, that as touching saint Poule, he sp●ke not in that place precisely of the scripture, as though he would have said that ●he christian people were edified and byelded only upon the writings that the prophets and apostles had written. For many things have made and yet make unto the edification of christian people, that were by the apostles delivered without writing, as is plain by other words of saint Poule himself, 
2. Th●s. 2.  where he biddeth the thessalonians keep the traditions which ye have learned, ●yther by preaching or by our pistle. And in many places edified he much people, where we find not that he gave them any writing at all. And the Ephesians themself to whom in those words he writeth that they were edified and builded upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, what prophets writings that they had then red, I can not tell but as for writings of apostles or evangelists it is well likely that they had yet at that time red never one.  
And saint Gregory would peradventure have marveled, if saint Poule would have said as frere Barons beareth us in hand he said, that christendom were only builded upon the apostles and prophets/ for it is most specially builded upon our saviour himself, and so might saint Poule in those words very well and properly mean saying/ ye be builded upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets/ that is to say, ye be builded upon the same foundation that they be builded on, that is to wit christ, that is and was the very foundation as well of them, as of you, though they were laid on before and you after/ yet the very foundation upon which ye be builded and they both, is that corner stone that is laid in the head of the angle that joineth both the sides in one. And this exposition of saint Paul's words to the ephesians, 
Eph●s●. 2.  will well agree with his other words written unto the Corinthians, 
 where he saith, no man can lay any other foundation then that that is all ready laid, that is to wit jesus christ himself ● where as fr●re Barons so taketh saint Paul's words there unto the Ephesyans/ as though saint Poule had said unto them, The foundation that ye be builded upon, is the writing that the prophets & the apostles have written for your edification/ and therefore must you see that you believe nothing, nor do nothing but such as you find written in the writings of the prophets and the apostles/ then if they had never a book written of the apostles that were at that time comen to their hands, as it was likely there was not/ how would then those words frame?  
And also if he meant but so/ then took he away the authority from all the scripture beside/ except only the writing of the apostles and prophets, and from all that himself told them bysyde by mouth.  
But yet if frere Barons would there have said unto saint Gregory all those words with which in his book here he raileth on by and by against the things used in the known catholic church, belles, books, candles, vestiments, chalices, holy chrism, oil, and holy water, and watching, forbearing flesh, drinking of water, fasting, and praying, which Barns calleth patering, & mumbling of these psalms and those psalms without devotion/ as though himself had an y●e and an ear in every man's heart: saint Gregory would soon find him good places enough in scripture for these kinds of works plen●uously and full. And as for such works as be vicious in deed, which Barons planteth in among these as though all were of one sort/ saint Gregory would agree them for nought/ and so do they to that use them. But yet would saint Gregory tell him that if he were honest or true, he should not lay the faults of the naughty parts to the blame of the whole body/ in which be many full good. And specially if he would dispraise the evil works, he should not yet as he doth dispraise & call evil the things that are very good, and which devoutly done (as with many they be) are greatly pleasant to god/ and specially he should not among other things despise and reprove bells for calling folk to god's service/ nor vestiments, candles, books, and chalices, without which or at the last wise without some of which neither mass may be said, nor the blessed sacrament in the mass consecrated and received/ but if he would have every priest have all by heart, & the blessed blood of Crist without chalice laid and licked up upon the altar cloth.  
But than would saint Gregory have said farther to frere Barons and to frere Luther to/ that sith they were so precise, that they would have no works wrought, but only such as they found in scripture he would: ask them why they be run both out of religion/ and the tone wedded a nun, 
Psal. ●5.  
De●tero. 23  and both broken their holy sacred vows/ and stubernly defend that work which they find so fully condemned and abhorred in scripture. 
Ecc●esiaste. 5●   
To the words of saint Chrysostome saint Gregory would I trow have answered frere Barns/ that they were none of his. For it is well perceived and known that the work which is called Opus imperfectum, the unperfayt work upon the gospel of saint Matthew, which was first by the error and oversight of some writers intyteled unto saint Chrysostome, and the same title so suffered sins to stand/ was never his work in deed, nor never translated out of the greek but made by some lat●n man, as frere Barons hath all ready had sufficient warning by more than one, that can a little better skill thereof then I and he both/ and I verily believe that against his own conscience he ascribeth that work to saint Chrysostom. For all be it the man was cunning, well spoken, & in many things writeth very well/ yet if frere Barns have red that work (except he understand him not, or else be himself bysyde his other heresies an Arrian to) else must he needs perceive that the man was infected with that fault/ and therefore was it no marvel though he would as fain bring the very church in question, & out of knowledge as now frere Barns would himself. But saint Chrysostom himself in his own sermon upon the self same words of the gospel, They that be in judea let them i'll into the mountains, which is his 76. sermon upon saint Matthew, hath not such a word. But he whom frere Barns here bringeth, whose work was as I have said by error & oversight entitled in the name of saint Chrysostom. For as much as by the authority of the church, his heresy against the godhead of Chryst was condemned, did as ever more such men have done, that is to wit, laboured first to have if it could have been, their own sect taken for the very church. For so would the Arryans have seemed to be, & the Catholics they called heretics. And when that thing would not be obtained, than laboured they that at the lest the very catholic church might seem uncertain, & be taken for a church unknown/ and hang upon every man's disputation, so that they might the better bring their heresy forth still in question, and beguile here & there some unlearned & new-fangled people with the colour of their false exponing of holy scripture, while there should be no certain known church, by which the true exposition and the false should be discerned & judged.  
And therefore that man albe it he was as it seemeth in the time when that heresy of the Arrians was almost overwhelmed, & therefore durst not plainly speak much of it/ yet could he not hold but somewhat show himself in that work in his xix sermon that he writeth upon these words, Attendite a falsis prophetis, wherein he not only laboureth sore to minish as much as he may the credence of the catholic church both concerning the vertuose works which were used therein, & the miracles which were daily done therein, which two things he perceived to stand sore in his light for the knowledge of the catholic church/ but also inveheth against it and findeth a special high fault with it, for because i● taught to believe the equal godhead of the iii persons of the trinity. And therefore would saint Gregory have told frere Rarns that it was not saint Chrysostome, but some man that was to be red warily and with good judgement, & in this matter his words worthy no credence.  
And yet if frere Barns would have styczen still as stiffly for the work, as he doth against the pistle of saint jamys/ & would needs have it taken for saint Chrysostoms': than would saint Gregory have told him that the words which himself bringeth out of the work, be plain against frere Barns himself. For well ye wot that frere Barns teacheth that the very catholic church is in this world a church ever unknown. And he that wrote the words which Barons bringeth forth (whom he calleth saint Chrysostome) saith no more but that in some times the church may by reason of so great or so many sects of heretics arisen & sprungen up therein, be brought in doubt & question which of so many sects or of some few so great were the very church/ & yet in all this meaneth he, which known church of the great, or of the many were the true/ & not as Barns would have it that it were some few scattered persons unknown/ here one and thereon/ either of them all or of divers of them or of none of them, but peradventure men of some other kind of faith agreeing with none of them all.  
More over these words of saint Chrysostome if they were his do confess that the very church was once known/ and therefore would saint Gregory tell frere Barns, that they do utterly confound frere Barns heresy. For his heresy is, that the thyrche is such a spiritual thing that neither itself or any member or part thereof at any time can be known.  
furthermore where in those words saint Chrysostome if those words & that work were his saith that to know which is the church we must fly to the scripture, saint Gregory would tell frere Barns that sith saint Chrysostom sendeth us to the scripture to know thereby which of all those divers churches/ being together all at one time/ is the very church/ he meaneth that by the scripture the same church may be known: whereof it followeth again against frere Barns that the self same words by which he would prove us that the church can not be known, do plainly confound frere Barns/ and say that the church may be known.  
And saint Gregory could I wot well have given him tokens enough open plain & evident written in the plain scripture, of which I have myself showed some all ready and more shall I in the last book of this work, by which every man may plainly perceive, that this known catholic church is the very true church of christ.  
Also saint Gregory would have told frere Barns, that when saint Chrysostome (if those words were his) doth send us to seek the church by the scripture, he thought it necessary that the church were founden. For else he might have sent them only to the scripture, to learn the true faith and good living every man by himself, and leave the church unsought. But it appeareth sins he sendeth them to seek it there/ he meaneth not only that they there may find the means to find it and know it, as I said before/ but also that to find it & know it, is a thing so necessary that needs it ought to be had/ because of the true doctrine to be taught them by the same church, as well in any other thing that god hath by his holy spirit taught the same church, as also in things necessary to salvation the true understanding of the same scripture/ and than sith he would that the readers of the scripture should find out the true church to learn of it the true exposition of the scripture, and of an unknown church no man can learn by giving it credence as to the true church/ thereupon would saint Gregory yet again conclude, that these words of saint Chrysostome if they were his/ do clearly confound frere Barns. And therefore would he finally put frere Barons in choce, whither he will have those words taken for saint Chrysostoms' or no. If he would not have them taken for his/ than would saint Gregory bid him go scrape that authority out of his book again, & say no ferther but that one man writeth thus but I wot near who, saving that an Arrian he was. Now if he will have them saint Chrysostoms' words, than appeareth it plain would saint Gregory say, by the same words that saint Chrysostom in the self same few words which Barons bringeth forth for him, doth four or .v. times clearly & plainly confound him.  
Now if these folk would yet have sticked still, and say the decree of that counsel made against them was nought, for they themself only be the very true church of christ: than would saint Gregory have said at last: why sirs how can that be? For ye wot well that of known churches there was never none that durst profess themself for the very church, but ever they found themself so far in that point to weak, that they were fain in conclusion to say that the very church was a secret church unknown, whereof some of themself might at the lest wise be some part. And this do all you your own self so fully affirm, that never heretics affirmed it more stiffly. Go to therefore would saint Gregory say to some office there present, and tell these fellows with a stick, and let us have the number and the names. Now when this office had comen with his stick and patted them upon the pates, and the cryour with him/ and as he hit them, rehearse them thus: frere Luther one, Cate his nun twain, Tyndale three, frere Barons four: when here were all, than would saint Gregory have said/ what here be but four of you, and here be your names rehearsed and your persons present and you be all known, and your false faith and abominable bestely sects by your own bestely profession, all together known, and therefore you can not be the church of true good men unknown. For though an ipocryte may be unknown for nought, yet he that by his open evil and abominable deeds doing, and open profession of false abominable heresies showeth himself naught, can not be for that time secretly a good man. And so be you when ye have all babbled, well and justly condemned by the whole catholic church/ which is also well known, and which by your own reasons, and by Barns express words, is here well proved to be the church that can not err/ and therefore it is well proved that all you do plainly and damnably err.  
And furthermore, sith they were than proved to be not the very church after their own doctrine, because they were than made open/ sith of troth they being open or secret, is not the thing that maketh it the true church, nor is the substance of the matter but an accident thereunto/ it appeareth plain that they which by being made open, be proved after their doctrine not to be the true church, were alway a false church before they were made open.  
But now suppose me farther that forthwith after this/ some man would among them say unto saint Gregory and to that whole assemble, that they were comen thither together from all parts of the world, with their marvelous labour and their importable pain/ and that now their three days victual that they brought from home is more than half spent, & shall be great diffyculty for some of them that dwell farthest of, to get home again with the remanant. And that therefore if it might so be thought good to the whole counsel, while they were all the whole flock of all christian people together upon that fair plain, it were well done to take an order and make a law among them there, that for any need that should at any time after happen, there should never more all the whole people be called again together/ but out of every part some covenyent number conveniently called together. And that such an assemble so gardered together, should repsent the whole people, and should have the self same authority full and whole, in all laws after to be made, and all doubts of scripture or questions of the catholic faith to be declared, that the very whole christian people should have if they were all present there man, woman, and child/ sith it were very likely that the necessity of a general counsel should often happen/ and not well possible that all the whole people being so main a multitude & dwelling so far asunder, should so often though it happened so this once, from all parts of the world come whole always together to the general counsel/ and sith it were not to be doubted, 
Ioh●̄. 16. & A●●. 2.  but that christ which promised and performed the sending of his own holy spirit unto his church, to teach it and lead it into every troth, and that he would never leave them comfortelesse, nor like children faderlesse, 
I●ha●̄. 14  but would himself be with it all the days unto the end of the wo●●de, 
Ma●t●. 23. Matt●. 1●.  so far forth that where so ever were so much as two or three of that church not scattered out thereof as saint Cypryan● sayeth, but being in it and of it gathered together in his name, he was and would be himself in the very mids among them, would fail to assist them with his holy spy●yt when they were assembled so many in such manner, where as either their deed and declaration must needs stand and be ●erme, or else all run at rovers and nothing be certain or sure: I doubt nothing but that is this had be thus proponed, it would have been there in that full counsel agreed and ordered and decreed, that the general counsels should be after, not of the whole number of all christian people, but of some such convenient number as convenyetly might assemble/ and the same though it were not the whole catholic church in deed, but as frere Barns saith only representatyve, should yet have the same authority and the same full credence given unto it, as though there were a tit all the whole christian people.  
And thus ye see now that both in Luther's heresies & Tyndales to & Barns also, touching the wedding of freres & nuns, and the authority of general counsels, and the pro●e of the known catholic church, and the reproof of their catholic church unknown/ I have even with this one example of all the whole chysten people assembled at a general counsel, plainly confuted them all.  
But now if frere Barns will here say, that with all this imagination of such an whole assemble at a general counsel I can nothing prove, because it is but an imagination that never could come to pass: I answer him that if he so say, he shall speak very unlearnedly. For be the thing never so false and impossible to/ yet may it be put and admitted, to consider thereby what would follow or not follow thereupon, if it were both possible and true/ or else made that great wise and well learned man Boetius a very simple and an unwise argument, what time to prove that the freedom of man's will is nothing restrained, nor the final effect of things here contingent or happening, any thing precisely bound to the tone part or to the t'other by the prescience and foresight of god, he did put the case that god had not of any such thing to come any foresight at all. And then did thereupon argue thus in effect, that all were it so that god did not foresee whether such a man should in such a moment or undyvisyble time, sit or not sit/ yet should that man in that moment do but the tone of those twain, whither of the twain himself than would, and should not in that one time undyvysyble do the both twain both sit & not sit, whereof the tone were contradyctory & plain repugnant to the t'other. And that thereby may every man plainly perceive, that the prescience of god putteth no necessity in things of their nature convenient unto free will of man.  
who so consider well this argument of his, and many such other like made by many right excellent wise & well learned men/ shall either esteem them all for fools/ or else confess that upon frere Barons reason, grounded upon the difference between the whole catholic church in deed, and the general counsel that is not the whole church but by way of representation, I may well and orderly put the case, and suppose that the whole people were at the general counsel. And then in cause it so were/ if than my purpose would follow/ and frere Barons purpose fail as ye see plainly it would: then is my part as well proved, and his as well confuted, as if the matter were not only for argument supposed, but were so comen to pass & so done in very deed. And so this ensample of mine may for all the impossybilyte thereof, be a good ground of proof against all these fellows in their false and faint framed matters, concerning the maintenance of their false heresies, against all the known catholic church, by their own imagination of a secret scattered unknown church, and yet each of them a diverse church not one agreeing with a neither.  
Now hath frere Barons therefore none other shift that I can see, but to say that in that general counsel which I have put and supposed in saint Gregoryes days, the heresies that I have spoken of, of Luther, Tyndale, & himself, would not have been condemned, but rather approved and allowed for good things and true/ nor that general counsel than being such as I have put, wold● never have ordained that there should be any general counsel after of any fewer than all the whole christian people/ or if there should, yet would they not have determined that ever any such general counsel gathered of any fewer than all together, should have the same authority or credence that it should have if the counsel were assembled of all.  
If frere Barons or any of all his fellows be so bold as to tell us this/ then may they boldly bear us in hand what so ever they will in this world. For this may every man well wit, that they would determine when they were comen together, as they all knew to be good and true while they were asunder. But then are we very sure, whereof I think neither Barns nor, Tyndale nor Luther neither, can for shame say the contrary/ but that until within this twenty year passed last, all the world good and bad, christian and heathen, wol● have had in abomination that any man vowing chastity should have wedded a nun when he list, & upon his own sensual frantic fantasy, break his promise made unto god, And therefore I dare be bold/ and as I trust with the consent and agreement of every good man's conscience, to affirm in this matter a great deal farther against them than I said before. For I dare well say, not only that they should have been condemned by that one general counsel that I have put, as gathered in some one year of saint Gregoryes papacy/ but also if there had b●e the like gathered in every year of his ye●e, and in every year sins his time till within this twenty time last passed, and in every year before unto the very apostles time, and every year in their time to, and in every year sins christ was borne, and every year sin the world was first replenished well with people/ that same shameful sensual bestely sect would have been condemned for abominable.  
And also that the dew assemble of certain parts representing the whole body, should have the full authority of the whole body/ is a thing by the comen assent and experience of the whole world christian and heathen so fully seen and perceived, that no man can doubt but that it would have be so there determined, for the power and authority of every general counsel of christendom lawfully called and assembled together, that though they were not as they could not well be after christendom so greatly increased the congregation of all the whole christian people, yet should their determination and decree be of like strength and power as if they had been all assembled there together on a green.  
And well ye wot that in the first counsel that the apostles kept at Jerusalem, they called not all the whole congregation of christian people to it, and yet all christian people obeyed it.  
And where frere Barons saith that the general counsels be but embassyatours & therefore can not do so much as the princes may themself that send them/ I say that princes give their embassiatours full authority in such things as they send them for to do, as much as they might themself, if they were there present in their own persons/ for else if they sent them very far for matters that required speed, they might as well keep them at home.  
And where he saith that men must examine the general counsels by the scripture, ●o see whither they do w●ll or wrong. I say that the counsel in the making so must do, and so do in deed, and that the spirit of god guideth them therein & leadeth them into all necessary troth of faith. And that when they have done their determination, is not than to be examined by frere Barns, or such other as list to miss conster the scripture to the contrary to defend their false heresies.  
Now shall I ferther say, that what so ever all christian people would determine if they came to one assembly together/ look what strength it should have if they so did, the same strength hath it if they be all of the same mind, though they make no decree thereof, nor come not together therefore. For when all christian people be by the same spirit of god brought into a full agreement and consent, that the vow of chastity may not be by his pleasure that made it broken and set at nought, but that who so doth break it committeth an horrible sin/ and that who so holdeth the contrary of this is an heretic: than is that belief as sure a troth as though they had all the whole company comen to a counsel together to determine it.  
And when this is a truth once so revealed by god for a perpetual necessary truth, and the contrary thereof for a perilous perpetual falsshed, and the texts of holy scripture touching that point by the holy men so taken and taught, and thorough christendom with all men so believed/ than what time so ever two or three begin upon their own heads to vary from all the remanant, and against all the remanant do s●yffely hold the contrary, they hold a plain false heresy, and after that as many as fall to their opinion and take their part, be in the like peril and in like damnable heresy, wax their number never so great. For ever shall they leave the true known church behind/ which wax it never so small a flock shall yet never fail/ but continue, and as it still continueth and alway continue shall in the old approved troth, so is it alway still, and alway still shall be the very true church of christ/ and where so ever the same known church remain every person in every other part of the world that is chrystened or longeth to be chrystened consenteth with that church in faith is a member of the same/ and this is what so ever Barns babble the very true church, with which the spirit of god is assistant and will not suffer it to fall in to damnable error. And that it so is have I all ready proved in more places than one, both of this work and mine other, & by more places than one of open plain scripture to.  
And thus ye see plainly that frere Barons hath utterly failed of proving his own secret church/ and therefore he goth about as Tyndale doth/ to disprove the catholic known church to. But of so many means as I have proved it by/ he dyssymuleth all the remanant, and bringeth forth only this one di● ecclesia/ by which our saviour commandeth that who so find himself offended, except the party by whom he is offended will amend by his own secret monition or else at his advertisement given him before witnesses one or two, he shall complain upon him to the church, and the church shall order him/ & than if he will not obey the church, he shall be taken as a publican or a very paynim. This place frere Barns bringeth forth and soileth in this fashion.  Barons. 
But now will there be objected that our master christ commandeth if my brother offend me that I should complain to the church, now is this church that I have set out spiritual, and no man knoweth her but god only/ she is also scattered throughout the world/ wherefore how can a man complain to that church? I answer our master christ doth plainly speak of a man that hath wrong the which must needs be a particular and a certain man. And therefore like wise he biddeth him complain not to the universal church but to the ꝑtyculare church, now this particular church if she be of god and a true member of the universal church she will judge ryghteousely after Christ's word & after the ꝓbations brought afore her/ nevertheless oftentimes cometh it that this particular church doth fully and holy err and judgeth unright and excommunicateth him that is blessed of god, as it is open in our own law whose words be these. Often ten times he that is cast cut is within, and he that is without is keep within etc. Here have ye plainly that the particular church may err/ wherefore that church that can not err is alonely the universal church which is called the communion and the fellowship of saints, the which addition was made by holy father (for in saint Cypryans' time was there no mention of it) by all likelihood to declare the presumption of certain men and of certain congregations that reckoned themself to be the holy church.  More. 
Here saith frere Barns four things in this answer The first is that christ doth there plainly speak of a man that hath wrong. The second that because he that hath wrong must needs be a pertycular and a certain man, therefore god biddeth him in like wise go complain not to the universal church but to the particular church. The third is that this particular church if she be of god and a true member of the universal church, than she will judge ryghtuousely after Christ's word, and after the probations brought afore her. The fourth is that this particular church doth sometime whole err.  
Now as touching the first point/ frere Barons here saith that christ spoke there of him that hath wrong done to him self, as though christ meant of no more, but would only send him that had wrong to complain to the church for his recompense. But me thinketh surely that if Barons take it thus, he taketh it wrong. For I say that though christ doth not so forbid the man that is wronged to complain, that it were alway deadly sin for him to complain: yet he rather counseleth him to bear that wrong and patiently suffer it than to complain upon his brother for it. And therefore I say that christ here plainly speaketh of every man that secretly findeth his brother, that is to wit any other man in any deadly point of false belief or sinful living though the party that findeth him therewith have neither harm thereby in body nor goods nor good name/ ye & though he might by the man whom he so findeth in such a fault have great advantage temporal, to do no more but wink thereat and find no fault therein this man I say, if he be good, is for all that offended by him that such evil doth or saith/ in that for the unity of charity between all christian brothern he can not but be grieved with his christian brothers evil. For as saint Poule saith, 
1. Corinth. 12.  If one member taketh hurt all the members be grieved therewith. And therefore in every such case doth christ there send him that without any worldly wrong done to himself is in such wise offended by the fault and sin that he seeth in his neighbour/ him I say sendeth christ unto the church to complain, and not him specially from whom his neighbour hath any thing taken, which thing well appeareth by the words of christ where he sayeth, 
Matth. 13.  If he here thee, than haste thou won again thy brother, he sayeth not, than haste thou gotten again thy good.  
Now frere Barns in one of the articles which was laid against him at his abjuration, had preached such words, that the thing which he sayeth here that christ plainly meant/ he seemeth there to take for deadly sin not in him only that seweth when he is wronged/ but over that in the lawyers that were of his counsel, and the judges to, and in the maker's of the laws also. For there as himself rehearseth his article, these were his words, All these ●●●es, and all these lawyers, and all these iusticiarys that say a man may lawfully asks his own good afore a judge, and contend in judgement have destroyed all patience, devotion, and faith in christian people.  
Surely if Barns words were true than do all these folk an high deadly sin, and such a sin as there can of none other come any more hurt I trow. But I am sure his article as himself rehearseth it will never be defended with all that ever he bringeth for it, nor all that ever he may bring forth bysyde. But letting the remanant pass till some other time/ himself there rehearseth among other things that master doctor wulman laid against him these words that we be in hand with here. If thy brother offend thee, complain unto the church. And thereto saith Barns, I answer that this place made not for s●wynge at the law alleging saint A● stain f●r me, for it speaketh of the crimes that should be reproved by the congregation and not of the correction of the temporal sword. For it followeth if he hear not the church take him as an heathen or a publican. This is the uttermost pain that our master christ assigneth there, the which is no pain of the temporal law.  
Now good readers consider well that answer that himself saith he there made unto master wulman concerning those words of the gospel, If thy brother offend the complain unto the church/ and than consider therewith this exposition of his, with which he would gloze the same words here to avoid that the very catholic church shollde be no known chyrcher  
first it is not unknown that frere Barons hath in more places than one declared his opinion plainly ●y which he would that the church as he meaneth here while he maketh a distinction between it and the temporal court, should have no jurisdiction at all. And now h● is content that they must have a court for the reproving of certain crymies except he be so mad as to mean here that the party wronged should no thing else but make some wondering upon his adversary in the market place without any court or judge,  
Now in this his exposition here/ he restraineth it only to the complaint of him that is wronged/ and so will that no man shall any thing complain unto the church, but only of his own wrongs done unto himself/ where as the order of charity would rather, that a man shall neglect his own wrongs in the complaint whereof may be suspicion of anger or avarice/ and complain to the church upon other men's wrongs, whereunto he were likely to be moved only of charity.  
Also what crimes be there wherewith a man may be wronged, that the church of god doth not reprove.  
More over if christ here speak specially of him that is wronged, and specially biddeth him go complain to the church/ he seemeth to send him for the redress and recompense of his wrongs.  
And therefore when all his whole tale of his exposition here, and his answer there is set together it amounteth unto no more, but that who so ever is wronged by another he may lawfully complain to the spiritual court, but not to the temporal court/ and why so now? marry saith Barons because that in the spiritual court the party that offendeth, shall but have his crime reproved/ but in the temporal court, he shalt fall under the temporal sword. Frere Barons meaneth not here I trow, that upon every complaint made and proved in the temporal court, the party that hath wronged his neyghbuor, shall have his head ●tryken of. Now the reproving that the church reproveth if the party that have done the wrong, when is reproved thereof set not thereby, is ye wot well in conclusion to be excommunycate out of ●he christian company, and taken as a naughty wretch and a very paynim, which pain is among good christian people more dangerous and fearful, than t● be compelled to make the party grieved a right great amendss/ namely sith our lord saith forthwith thereupon, 
Matth. 1●.  that the sentence of th●rche in earth shallbe confirmed in heaven.  
And therefore what so ever Barons say/ if any man sew another upon any greedy covetise of worldly goods, though it be the getting again of his own/ or of any anger, or other corrupt effection, whether he sew in spiritual court o● temporal/ in his own matter, or any man's else, he doth offend god and sin more or less after the qualities and circumstances of his own mind/ and of the time, and the place, and the matter. And who so ever on the other side complain and sew of good mind and effection for the amendment of his neighbour, that either hath offended and wronged himself. or another, or only done harm to himself, who so as I say of good effection complain and ●ew for his amendment in any court of christian people, be it spiritual or be it temporal, competent for the matter according to the laws and lawful usages of the country where he complaineth/ offendeth not god therein, no not though he consequently recover his own good again by the mean or his recompense for his wrong & harm, so that there be none evil circumstances therein, that engender occasion of slander/ as was in sewing openly among infidels and specially before paynim judges, which thing saint Poule specially therefore reproved. 
1. Corinth. 6  And therefore frere Barns in his answer made to master wulman avoiding this place of the gospel with such a distinction between the temporal court and the spiritual court, made a very sleeveless answer. And the scoff with the proverb of Apelles, Ne suitor ultra crepidam, had no very proper place/ as though master doctor wulman being doctor of the law, might no more meddle in that matter and question of sewing at the law, than a cordener might in making of a hose. was it not well resembled? And where he writeth of master wulman these words: It is not yet and hundred year a go, sins that same master doctor was butler in in the same house, whereof I was master and prior: when one of late told master wolman of those words, he said if it so were as Barns wrote, yet had there been with in the same hundred year as great changes as that, & not fully so good in that same master doctor Barns as in the same master doctor wulman. For ●t was he said somewhat a better change to see a butler changed into a doctor, than a prior into an apostata, and a doctor into an heretic.  
But now to our purpose, if frere Barns restrain those words of Cry●te: If thy brother offend the and will not amend, neither at thy secret warning nor at thy warning with on● or two witnesses, then finally complain unto the church: if he restrain them thus as he seemeth here to do, to such folk only as have wrongs done unto themself: he doth expone the place plain wrong, both for the causes afore remembered, and also for that it appeareth by the text that christ biddeth him at the second monition if the first avail not, he shall take to him one or two witnesses/ meaning thereby that he should take no more than very necessity requireth for the proof of the matter, if the wilfulness of the party that offendeth do drive the matter into the open court. And than was by the law two competent witnesses sufficient for a proof and no fewer.  
Now when christ would, he should take unto him as few as he might, because he should not utter his brother's fault unto any one more than very need should require: if christ had spoken those words unto none other but only him that were wronged himself, he would never have said/ take unto the one witness or twain, but take unto the twain always at the lest. For else taking to him but one, there should have lakked half the proof. For he that did the wrong/ would not witness against himself, and he that took the wrong, could not be taken a witness for himself. And so if christ had meant no more than Barns saith here he did/ Crystes counsel had been unsufficient for the matter. For his provision might have been observed & the matter yet rest reproved. But of truth our saviour like as he spoke and meant sufficiently/ so his counsel provided sufficiently. For when he bode him take one witness or twain, and yet meant that he should take no more than there needed: the man that would observe it to the very point, if the wrong were done properly to himself, he should take twain, lest his complaint should be frustrate for lack of sufficient proof. And y● the matter pertained not properly to himself/ he should take but one, because himself might in that case be the t'other.  
And thus good readers as for the first point of frere Barons answer, concerning the understanding of those words of christ: If thy brother offend the etc. complain to the church: ye see that frere Barons hath not handled it very well. Let us now to the second.  
The second point is ye wot well, that because he that hath wrong must needs be a particular and a certain man/ therefore god biddeth him in like wise go and complain not unto the universal church, but to the particular church.  
By this it appeareth, that Barns meaneth that he that is not wronged, is not sent to the particular church. Let us now suppose that a man would in a corner go teach another man heresy, and labour to make him byleue that neither theft nor adultery were any sin at all/ and that a third man hearing him and secretly reproving him, and thereby finding none amendment, nor by the witnesses at second the time being called thereto, would follow fain the counsel of Criste, and therefore asketh Barns whither he shall for his brother's amendment though himself be not wronged, complain to the church or not: it will be hard to say nay. Then to which church will Barns bid him go● whither to the particular church or to the universal. If this man be a particular man as well as he that were wronged, and therefore must complain to a particular church as well as he that were wronged: whereto doth Barons say that christ speaketh plainly of him that is wronged/ as though he spoke of none other, nor as though there were no particular man but he that is wronged/ but that every other man not wronged, were an universal man, and must therefore if he have any cause of complaint, go complain himself to the universal church that Barns describeth us, and telleth us that we can never know her nor any member of her.  
The third point is very subtle/ and a thing that if frere Barons had not said it, I would never have thought it possible/ that is that the particular church, if she be of god and a true member of the universal church that Barons assigneth, that is to wit of only men pure & clean with out spot or wrinkle of sin/ she will judge ryghtuousely after the word of god, and after the probations brought afore her, who would have went that good men would have judged well and true men truly?  
The fourth point is, that this particular church may all wholly err.  
This is lo so little marvel, and over that so little to the purpose, that I will grant it frere Barons freely, and a great deal more to. For I will grant him also the thing that himself sayeth nay to, and yet is it true/ that is to wit that so may the whole universal church do to, in s●ch wise as the law meaneth by which Barons proveth that the particular church may err. And I speak her of his own universal church of all holy virtuous men, clean without spot or wrinkle, if they were all suddenly known by revelation, and were as many of them as ever was a● any time people good & bad both living together in this world, and all assembled together, yet might they in judgement err and be deceived all the meinie at once, believing many false recordies & many false lykelyheddes, in a private matter against a secret & an unproved truth/ which is the error that the law meaneth, which law frere Barns allegeth  
And therefore ye may see good readers where about Barns goth, when he putteth you here a difference between the particular church and the universal church, in that the tone may err and the t'other can not/ and than bringeth us in those laws for the proof, which laws do speak of that kind of error, in which kind of error they may err particular and universal both.  
ye may plainly perceive here the Barns doth but trifle in this great erenest matter and goth about to blear the readers eye with error happening in the examination of an outward act/ wherein is to him that erreth no apparel of soul/ where himself knoweth well that the error where upon all this matter goth is damnable error in doctrine of things pertaining to the necessary points of faith, or virtuous living. Now where christ did bid him that was offended by his brother complain to the church, frere Barns saith, that was a particular church/ who would have went that lo? if Barns had not told us so, we would have went that christ had bode him complain to no particular church/ but go seek that universal church which he could not know though he found her/ or else tarry till he could get all the known catholic church together upon a green.  
But I ask frere Barns whither christ did there bid the man so offended complain to an unknown particular church or to any other particular church than unto such a particular church as were a part of the whole known catholic church? let frere Barns answer this. christ neither bode him seek an unknown church, nor an unknown part of a church, nor a known part of an unknown church/ but bode him well and plainly go complain to the church/ as a thing that was i'the to perceive without any sophysme or sotletye/ for every man might well know that he might neither complain to a church unknown, nor to all the whole church at once. But because Chryst would provide that all the hole church should have one faith and one truth of doctrine in rules of living & necessary understanding of the scripture concerning all such points/ therefore our saviour bode him go to the church/ whereof every known part that he should so complain unto/ he should not fail to find in the necessary truth of doctrine to agree with the hole universal church, both that known church of good & bad, & with the secret unknown church of only good men/ for in the tone be all the t'other/ & therefore that church that he should go to, should be able after the fact & the deed truly known, to judge, reprove and redress that wrong & that offence with which ●he complaynaunt was wronged or offended. And if one w●re of good zeal offended with him that did exhort him to heresy telling him that it were true faith & doctrine the fornication, adultery, running out of religion in apostasy, breaking of vows, & frere's wedding nonnies, & perjury were no sin at all/ a man could not fail in any particular church part of the known catholic church to have all this doctrine judged & condemned for heresy. How be it if he should complain to some of those known particular churches that are in some parts of Almaigne sects dissevered & departed from the known catholic church there should he have some of these heresies judged for true catholic faith. And therefore is it plain that Cryst sending him so plainly to complain to the church, & meaning no false church but his own true church/ & than making no dowtes of the finding thereof intended to make his true pertycular churches, that it to wit the parts of his true catholic church well & openly known & perceyu●d, as well from all the churches of heretics, as from all the churches of paynims. For christ would not send him where he should be bygyl●d in doctrine to the damnation of his soul.  
And than if Crystes particular churches to which he sendeth the man to complain that is offended by false doctrine be churches known/ than it followeth that Crystes hole church whereof all the known particular churches of christ be known parts, is & must needs be a known church to/ bu● if Barns be so mad as to say that of an hole tree growing together all the pieces of it as it standeth may be seen and known/ but the hole tree standeth itself invisible for all that and can in no wise be known.  
And thus good christian readers it is more tha● shame to see how Barns answereth those words of Cry●●●, which plainly prove the very church of christ to be a known church. In avoiding whereof Barns tryfle●● in such fashion so boldly and so careless/ that he seemeth to reckon all that ever shall read it, no wiser almost then even very wild geese. For if ever he thought that any man should read it that should have any wit at all in his head, the man would I ween have been full sore ashamed to handle this matter of Christ's own holy words in such a trifling manner as he doth.  
yet saith Barns that this known catholic church can not be the very church because it is not persecuted. For the very church (saith Barns) inventeth none other way to heaven but followeth christ only/ in suffering oppressions and persecutions, blasphemings, and all other things that may be laid unto her/ which as saint austin saith she learned of our master christ. Our holy mother the church thorough out all the world scattered far and long, in her true head christ jesus taught/ hath learned not to fere the contumelies of the cross nor yet of death, but more and more is she strengthened, not in resisting but in suffering.  
These words every man seeth well touch not the clergy only, and yet maketh Barns as he meant no more but them/ but he meaneth that himself and his holy fellows be the church because they be run away for fere of persecution. But saint austin saith not that the church is strengthened in suffering of persecution for holding false heresies, for teaching that men be not bounden to fast the lente/ but may eat flesh on good friday/ and that the people be no more bounden to come to god's service on whitsunday than upon shrove tuysdaye/ on which day though they be boundeu to leave undone some things that many men use to do/ yet are they not so specially bounden to spend the day in the divine service as they be the t'other for all Barns babbling upon his abjuration. Nor the church did not suffer persecution for teaching that freres may wed nonce, and break their vows, & run in apostasyand set nought by perjury, and rail against all orders of holy religious living. For in all these things is saint austin whom he bringeth for him very full and whole against them.  
And as for persecution to be suffered by the catholic church, it sufficeth that men be of the mind gladly to suffer when necessity of sufferance shall happen by paynims & infydel●s/ & not that they cease to be Crystes church, but if they suffer heretics arise and remain among themself, fy●ste with false doctrine to contend and inquyete them/ and after with rebellion to beat, rob, spoil, kill them. For saint Poule saith, Put away the evil man from among yourself. For saint austin whom he bringeth for him did after good and long delyberation plainly write in this point against him, as appeareth expressly in many of his pistles written both unto the secular powers whom he exhorted against heretics to repress them & amend them by force/ and also to diverse of those heretics themself, wherein he declareth wherefore.  
And yet beside all this the church doth in deed abide & endure the shameful contumelyes of these wretched heretics/ nor is not ashamed of the contumelyes of the cross/ though these blasphemous wretches rail against the cross & call it idolatry to creep and kill the cross/ and in some place forbear not to cast the very filthy mire upon the cross.  
And yet ferther in some parts of Almaigne this known church of christ hath many times suffered and yet suffereth no little persecution and very martyrdom/ both in their goods and lands and their bodies to.  
But yet saith Barns that this known church can in no wise be the very church of christ/ because it persecuteth heretics/ & for the proof thereof he allegeth the words of saint Hylary written against the Arryans, which are these  Barons. 
The church doth threaten with banyshementes and presonmentes, and she compelleth men to believe her which was exiled and cast in preson, now hangeth she on the dyghyte of her fellowship the which was consecrated by the threatenings of persecutors, she causeth priests to fly that was increased by the chasing away of priests, she glorieth that she is loved of the world the which could never be Christ's except the world did hate her etc.  
How think you my lords? do not you all these things that be laid to the Arryans charge/ your own friends, ye your own conscience must needs accuse you of all these things and yet will y●u be called Christ's children/ I say nothing to you but that holy doctors lay unto you.  More 
who so consider well saint Hylaryes' words shall find therein the sorest thing that lightly could have been brought forth against frere Barons. For in these words appeareth that the catholic church did never persecute heretics by any temporal pain or any secular power until the heretics began such violence themself. For yet in saint Hylaryes' days the true catholic church did it not. But the Arrianes that were heretics as ye perceive here by saint hilaries words/ when they had corrupted & gotten into their sect great princes, used their authority against the catholics in bannishementes and prysonament, and much other cruel handling/ all which the good catholic people suffered & used none other defence/ saving the sword of the word of god, and the censuris of the church which that holy clergy pronounced and declared against Arrius and all his adherentes in that holy counsel held at Niece.  
But afterward when that sect was by the goodness of god abated and the right faith well and fully restored, and concord, rest, and quiet, grown among christian people, and that yet again after that some heretics began to raise a new brabeling/ good princes remembering the great harm and unrestefulnesse that had grown by such heretics, as had brought up sects and schisms in the church of christ before/ did of their own good minds for the preservation of the peace, prohibit and forbid those heresies upon certain pains and in like wise commanded the books of those heretyques to be burned. And all be it that some very good men & holy doctors would have been very glad to treat and use those heretyques so tenderly that they should have had no bodily harm, in so much that holy saint austin was first of the same mind himself/ yet afterward considering the matter betser, he perceived the contrary to be so much better, and so much harm growing to good men & displeasure to god, if it so should continue, that he letted not in writing to confess his own oversight, and revoke his first opinion, and was not only content that such obstinate heretics as to the trouble of good quiet people/ and dysturbing of the catholic faith with the apparel of many poor simple souls, would stir such schisms and heresies, should be by fere refrained, & byforce repressed, and by pain punished: but also required by his own writing the seculare powers there to/ and he thought it a benefit to the heretyques themselves to be reduced from their errors into the right faith/ rather for fair and pain here temporal, then to persevere in their heresies & fall into the fire perpetual. For many which by fere & force begin a good thing in trouble and adversity, fall after by grace increased, into the love of the goodness which in their wanton wealth they hated/ for vexation giveth understanding/ and the beginning of wisdom is the fear of god: 
〈◊〉. 1.  
Matth. 1●.  for which he bode his apostles fear him, that might not only kill the body, but cast also the soul into hell.  

S. Abstain  saint austin in this point declareth his mind plainly concerning the repressing of heretyques by temporal punishment, both by his pistles addressed unto such noble seculare men as he required thereto/ & also by his writings wherein he plainly declareth unto the heretyques themselves, the causes wherefore it is well done: which save for the length I would here set you in.  
But saint austin was not in this mind alone, but so was saint Hierome and many other holy men also. And unto the same have by the spirit of god, for the weal of cristendom, all christian nations full and whole agreed/ and have been by the importune malice of heretyques raising rebellions in diverse regions driven of necessity to set in sundry times, sorer and sorer punishment thereunto. And yet as ye see so strong is the devil in their obstinate hearts that scantly can all suffice.  
But yet layeth Barns another reason, to prove that the very church of christ can not be a known church in no wise. For he saith that we believe the very church of christ by faith, and it is an article of our faith/ and therefore it is no known church, nor can be no known church. But that it must needs be a church unknown of only holy people, pure and clean without spot or wrinkle/ and that the very church must needs be such an holy company so pure and so clean without spot or wrinkle: he proveth thus.  Barns. 
Mark saint Paul's words. Crist hath given himself for her, that he might make her glorious. So that the cleanness of this holy church is the mercy o● god toward her thorough christ, for whose sake he layeth nothing to her charge. Ye and if any other person would, he is ready to give her his cleanness, and to let her by faith claim of right his pureness for her own/ for betweyne them all is comen as betweyne man and wife. So that if the church look on her own merits of her own works, she is full of sin, and must needs say, dimit mihi debita, the which she needed not to say if she had none. But if she refer herself unto the merits of her blessed husband christ jesus, and to the cleanness that she hath in his blood/ then is she without spot. ●or by the reason that she sticketh by faith so fast unto her husband christ, and doth abide in confession of her sin, and requireth mercy for them/ therefore is there nothing laid to her charge, but all thing is for given her. And therefore sayeth saint Paul, there is no damnation unto them that be in christ Iesu.  More. 
I have good readers somewhat touched the words before. But now ye see that he saith that this church hath always sin in her, and so always spots and wrinkles. But yet because she stykketh fast unto her husband christ in faith, and abideth in confession of her sin, and requireth mercy for them/ therefore is there nothing laid unto her charge, but all that thing is forgiven her, & that therefore she hath neither spot no wrinkle left in her. And this he proveth as ye see by saint Paul saying, There is no damnation unto them that be in christ Iesu.  
I have said unto Barns before and yet I say again, that though Crist hath as saint Paul saith unto the Ephesies, given himself for ●er, that he might make her glorious: yet meant not saint ●oule that every man for whom Criste hath given himself to make him glorious, shall in deed be glorious: for some will forwardely refuse to be made glorious. And that company that shallbe glorious, shall yet not be glorious here in this world/ but shall be here in this world gracious, that they may in another world be glorious. And yet not at every time gracious in this world neither/ but some time fall frowardly or negligently from grace, and so stand long in such ungracious state/ and yet thorough gods calling on them, turn again willingly by grace unto grace/ at so pass at the last thorough grace into glory. But he may be of Crystes church here many years in earth, and happily neither gracious nor glorious/ and yet he may knowledge his synyes and ask mercy, and believe every article of the right faith, and trust to be saved to/ and yet by wilful purpose of continuing in some horrible sins, stand still in a damnable state. And as it may be that some shall amend and be saved/ so may it be that some will never amend, but shall therefore be finally dampened. And yet though he was not one of Cristes' elects/ yet was he a member of his mystical body, his catholic church here in earth, and may believe in him, and trust in him, and knowledge his sin, and ask mercy, and for lack of good purpose may miss of mercy to.  
But Barons to make men ween that only faith were sufficient for salvation, according to his pestilent heresy, which he did once forswear/ and now forswearing himself, holdeth and defendeth again: telleth us a gay tale of a glorious church that hath all her sins forgiven her, by sticking to her spouse by only faith, with knowledging her sins and asking mercy for them/ and that a man may be bold if he thus do, sin he never so fast, nor purpose he never so little to amend. He layeth us falsely forth saint Poule and telleth us that saint Poule saith there is no damnacy●● to them that be in Criste Iesu. But by holy saint Paul and holy christ jesus to, it is good christian readers a right heavy hearing, that ever such a man as this is, should be herd speak among christian people/ when he so holily bringeth in the words of the blessed apostle, as though he meant to make men love christ jesus, and then maliciously pulleth away the very words wherein all the weight hangeth, to make men ween that to stick to god by faith alone with a false hope of salvation, for only knowledging of their sin and asking of mercy, were su●●ycyent to save their soul's/ so that so doing, they could never be dampened though they did no more, how so ever they purpose to persever in their sin beside.  
But saint Poule to reprove Barons false doctrine, saith not as he rehearseth him, that there is no damnation to them that are in christ jesu/ but he saith there is no damnation to them that are in christ jesus, that walk not after the flesh/ declaring plainly that though they be in christ jesus, after such a manner of being in him as Barons describeth us, yet if he walk after the flesh he shall be damned. For saint Poule saith plainly if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die. And after the flesh may a man walk, & after the flesh may he live, & yet do all that frere Barns here saith in these words that the church doth. For he speaketh in all these holy words of his, nothing of leaving the sinful ways of the flesh, or of any such purpose either/ but to make men ween that no such thing needed, but only believe, and trust, and knowledge our sin, and a●ke mercy, and believe only, and trust surely, & live still as we list. For by faith alone we stick to Crist, as Barns would have it seem. And then how sinful so ever we be/ yet be we without sin clean and pure/ for than Cristes' pureness is ours he saith, as all things be common he saith among friends/ and therefore no damnation can there be to them that are in such wise in christ jesus, how so ever they live or what so ever they do. And thus may ye see good christian people how shamefully this evil christian man false●yeth saint Paul's words, to the deceit of unlearned folk, and damnation of good simple souls.  
But now is it a world to see how he laboureth to carry the reder away from the perceiving thereof. And yet hath god made Barns himself so blind, that the more blind he goth about to make the reder, the more he stumbleth unware upon the troth, and taketh it up & bringeth it so forth, and also showeth it to his own shame, the most foolishly that I never saw the like in all my life. For lo these are his words forth with upon the t'other.  Barns. 
And that this may be the plainer, I will bring you saint austins words, the which was vexed of the donatists with this same reason that is laid against me. His words be these. The whole church saith forgive us our sins/ wherefore she hath spots and wrinkles. But by knowledging, her spots are weshed away. The church abideth in prayer, that she might be cleansed by knowledging of her sins. As long as we live here, so standeth it/ and when we shall depart out of this body, all such things be forgiven to every man. wherefore by this mean, the church of god is in the treasurers of god without spot and wryncles'/ and therefore here do we not live without sin, but we shall ●asse from hence without sin. etc.  More. 
Now good christian readers, here have you heard frere Barns say that he would rehearse you saint austins words, to th'intent that he would make you the matter the more plain for his purpose. But of troth he hath played in the rehearsing of them, as he played in the rehearsing of saint Paul's words/ that is as ye have herd, rehearsed them falsely with pulling the chief part away, to make them seem the plainer for his purpose. And therefore to the intent that I may make his false handling of saint austin & his false intent therein appear, as plainly unto you as I have all ready made appear unto you, his like handling & his like intent in handling of saint Poule: I shall rehearse you saint austins words a little more fully & truly than frere Barons hath done/ beginning where Barns beginneth, but not ending where he endeth. For he endeth I wot near where/ but maketh two lynies of his own, and than endeth with etc. as though his own words were saint austins. But thus saith saint austin lo.  
The whole church lo sayeth, forgive us out sins/ ergo she hath spots and wrinkles: 
August. de ve●bis 〈◊〉 se●m. 29.  but by confession of them the wrinkle is stretched out, & by confession the spot is wished out. The church continueth in prayer to be cleansed thorough confession/ and as long as we here live so she continueth still, and every man when he departeth out of his body, is forgiven of his synnies/ every man. I say of such manner of sins as he than had that were venial. For they be forgiven also by daily prayers/ and he departeth hence cleansed, and the church is laid up pure gold in to the treasurers of our lord. And by this mean the church is in the treasures of our lord without spot and wrinkle. And than if the place where she is without spot or wrinkle be there/ what thing shall we pray for while we be here? That we may obtain pardon of our synnies. what good doth the pardon it taketh out the spot, and he that forgiveth stretcheth out the wrinkle. And where is our wrinkle stretched out as it were in the press or tenter hooks of a strong fullar? upon the cross of christ. For even upon the cross, that is to wit upon that streccher or tenter hooks, he shed out his blood for us. And ye o faithful people, know what witness ye bear unto the blood which ye have received. For of a truth ye say Amen. ye know what thing the blood is which was ●hed out for many in remission of sins.  
Mark lo how the church is made without spot or wrinkle. She is stretched out in the strecher or tenter hokys of the cross, as a church well washed & cleansed. Now here may ever this thing be in doing. But our lord doth prohibit and present unto himself, a glorious church with out spot or wrinkle there. He goth about this thing and is in doing of it even here, but he exhybyteth her such there. For man saith, let us have neither spot nor wrinkle. Great is he that goth about it/ and he goth about it well, and is the cunnyngest work man that can be. He stretcheth us out upon the cross, and maketh us smooth without any wrinkle, whom he had weshed & made clean without spot He that came without spot & wrinkle, was stretched out upon the strecher or the tenter hokys. But that was for our sakes not for himself, but to make us without any spot or wrinkle. Let us therefore pray him to make us such/ & when he hath so done, than to bring us to the shoppies & there lay us up where shallbe no pressing nor strecching. Now thou that spakest thus, art thou without spot or wrinkle? what dost thou then here in the church, which saith, forgive us our sins. She confesseth that she hath still sins to be forgiven. They that confess not the same, it followeth not therefore that they have no sins. But because they confess them not/ their synnies therefore shall not be forgyu● them. confession healeth us, and a well aware living, & an humble life, and prayer also with faith & contrition of heart, and unfeigned tears flowing out of the heart vain, that the synnies without which we can not be, may be forgiven us. confession I say maketh us hole, as the apostle Iohn saith: if we confess our synnies, god is faithful & just, and will pardon us our sins, and cleanse us from all wickedness. But now though I say we can not here be without sin/ we may not commit manslaughter or do adultery therefore, or such other deadly sins as at one stroke slay the soul. For such deeds doth not a christen man that hath a good faith & a good hope/ but those sins only which are with the pencil of daily prayer overwyped.  
Now good christian readers ye shall first understand, that where as frere Barns maketh as though saint austin had spoken those words against the Donatysties, which vexed (saith he) saint austin with the same reason that is now laid against him: he maketh us two lies at once. For neither did the donatists vex saint austin with that reason that is laid against him, nor saint austin made not that sermon against them. first as for them, they vexed saint austin with this heresy, that they affirmed the very church to be only in Affryque/ and none to be of the very church but if he were of the sect of the donatists. And now ye wot well no man vexeth frere Barons with that heresy. For we say that the church is the whole number of all christian nations, not being by new heresies divided from the old stock, in what places of the world so ever those people be, and be they never so many countries, or be they never so few that remain in the same known church, that hath been by a well known succession preserserued and continued from Christ's days unto our own, and in the profession of the same faith which is called the catholic faith, because it is the faith of the same whole catholic church. And therefore this thing with which frere Barons is vexed now is not the same with which the donatists did vex saint austin.  
Now if Barns will say, that though it be not the same/ it is yet like the same, because we assign the church to be in these only countries in which it now remaineth/ what can we other say than that for the time in which it stretcheth no ferther, it is but in these cuntreys'. But we deny not but if there be dwelling among Turks or saracens any christian, or men than long to be christian, which agree with the known church of these christian continued nations in faith/ all those folk are of this known church also.  
And over that when so ever the same countries that are unchrystened now, shall here after as I trust once they shall, become chrystened again, and be believers of the common catholic faith, and so become membres of the common known catholic church/ than say we that there shall the church be to. But the donatists said and would have seemed to prove it by the very scripture to, that the church should not remain but in Affryque. And therefore the donatists vexed not saint austin with the same thing with which we vex frere Barns.  
yet if frere Barns will say that it is like, in that that like as those heretics were called donatists, so these heretics call the catholic christian people papists: yet can it not be like for that. For saint austin called the successor of saint Peter the chief head in earth of the hole catholic church, as well as any man doth now. And also frere Barns can not allege that point against us. For himself ye wot well confesseth that the pope is the vicar of christ here upon earth.  
Finally the question that is between frere Barns and us, is not the same that was between the donatists and saint austin. For between Barns and us, the question is whither the very church be a known church of christian people good and bad both, or an unknown church of only good holy virtuous people, pure and clean without either spot or wrinkle. And in this point were both saint austin and the Donatysties agreed, that the very church was a church known.  
And thus good readers ye may see that frere Barns saith untrue in this point, where he saith that saint austin was vexed by the donatists, with the self same reason that himself is now vexed with us. But this he feigneth, make it seem that the known catholic church were now of the same opinion that those heretics the Donatists were then/ and that saint austin were of the mind that himself is now, that the very catholic church were an unknown church, of only good folk pure and clean with out either spot or wrinkle of any manner sin. And he would make us ween, that saint austin therefore wrote those wordis against the Donatists, to prove against them that the very church here in earth were an unknown church of only such holy saints as were without any sin.  
But now to prove you that frere Barns maketh us a lie in that point, ye shall understand good readers, that saint austin spoke those words not against the Donatists, but against other sects of heretyques called the Pelagyanies and the Celestyans.  
And to prove you farther, that frere Barns maketh you therein not only a lie, but also a very foolish lie/ ye shall see him convicted in this point, by the very words of saint austin himself in the self same sermon. For in all that whole sermon is there not only no word spoken of donatists/ but that also he declareth himself by plain and open words, to speak those words against pelagians & the Celestyans, as I said before. For lo in the very words next before those, with which frere Barns beginneth/ saint austin saith thus: Vbi es tu heretice Pelograne vel C●●●●stiane, where art thou heretic pelagyane or celestyane?  
And thus ye see clearly, that saint austin wrote not those words against the Donatists as Barons belieth him/ but against the pelagians and the celestians, as his own express words do declare you.  
But now ye will peradventure marvel, for what intent frere Barons hath made this false foolish change, in which he may be so plainly reproved. ye shall understand good readers, that he did it not for nought, but of a great wiliness with a very little wit. For ye shall understand that those two sects, between them borough up and h●●o the same heresy that Barons bringeth forth now/ that is to say that the church in this world is a company of only good folk, and so good that none of them have either spot or wrinkle of sin. first Pelagyans said, that every man might by his only natural strength make himself such one if he will. And then Celestius added unto it, that there is no man a good man but he that so doth in deed/ and that the very church hath none but only such good men in it, which must needs ye wot well be an unknown church. And that their heresy was this/ appeareth plain both in the beginning of this sermon, and also in the end of saint austin work written to Quod vult deus. And thrfore against that heresy of theyres which heresy now frere Barns holdeth stiffly for a very truth/ doth saint austin write those words, which Barns himself here bringeth for himself, labouring to prove his heresy true by the authority of saint austin, with the self same words by which saint austin plainly proveth it false. I can not in good faith well devise whither this pagea●nt be played by frere Barns, more falsely or more foolishly.  
For where as those heretics said, that the very church had none in it but such as were so clean and so pure that they neither had spot nor wrinkle/ saint austin sayeth as ye have herd, that not only the mean sort of the very church, but also all the whole church no number thereof except, no not the very best, prayeth in the Pater noster god, to forgive them their sins. And therefore saith he that those heretyques lie, that say the whole very church here in earth hath none thereof, but only such as have neither spot nor wrinkle of sin.  
And then goeth saint austin farther and saith that such as be in the church, and therefore live not wyhoute sin, get forgiveness by knoweledging of their sin, and asking mercy, and by prayer, and with faith and contrition of heart, and unfeigned teries flowing from the vain of the herte● and with a ware living/ with all these ways he saith that the sins be forgiven, to him that useth these ways to get forg●uenes with. For than he sayeth that as god hath washed away our spots with the water of baptism/ so he stretcheth out our wrinkles upon his own cross.  
And yet he saith for all this, that no man liveth here so clean, but that as long as he liveth here, he so spotteth himself again, and so caccheth ever some wrinkles, that he liveth never without, nor long can not, not for necessity of our nature peradventure, but thorough our wilful frailty and negligence. And then showeth he farther yet, that in those sins without which no man liveth/ he meaneth not abominable deadly sins, as manslaughter, or adultery, or such other horrible deadly sins, as slay the soul at one stroke. For such sins christian men, he saith, that have a good faith and a good hope, will not commit. whereby saint austin teacheth us against the doctrine of those heretyques and these to, that a man may be a christian man, and of the very same church to, which christ hath given himself for to make her fair & glorious/ and may have also a true faith, that is to wit a full belief of every vecessarye troth, and a full hope, that is to wit, a great strong trust in christ to be saved by Criste/ and yet not a good faith able to make the man good, because it is but Barns faith, that is to wit only faith without well working charity/ nor a good hope, because it is a presumptuous hope, looking to be saved with damnable devilish levyuge. And for these causes may the member of the very church here, when he dieth in such mind, for all his knowledging and asking mercy to, go from Crystes very church in earth to the devils very church in hell.  
For saint austin saith here as ye have herd, that they which have such sins as at the time of death should be remitted/ that is to say that hath not then such as be at his dying deadly both for their own nature and for lack of true repentance, with purpose of amendment & well using of the sacraments, shall be fully forgiven/ that is to wit if he have for attaining thereof, used himself suf●ycyently in such wise as saint austin here declareth/ that is to say in confession & knowledging of his sins, with contrition and prayer, with good faith, and good hope, ●nd a ware living, using diligence to withstand sin/ then he shall be saith saint austin forgiven. And wh●n he is so at his death fully forgiven/ then shall he be laid up for pure gold in the treasures of god.  
But saint austin meaneth not, that every man that is of the very church, nor that every man that dieth out of deadly sin, and knowledgeth his sin when he dieth, & asketh mercy, shall be forthwith so fully forgiven, that he shall go hence so clean and so pure without spot or wrinkle, that h● shall be by and by laid up for pure gold in the treasures of god/ but if he long before with such other circumstances as I have before of saint austin's own words rehearsed you, well and duly been accustomed long time to pray before, that god would make him without sp●t or wrinkle, by weshing his spots with the blessed sacraments, and stretching out his wrinkles with the stretching them upon the stretcher or tenter hooks of the cross. And then when god hath in such wise washed out his spots/ and in such wise washed out his wrinkles at the very last end, after which he can neither gether spot nor wrinkle more/ that than it may please god to bring him into the shops, and there lay him where shall never be pressing nor stretching more. But if he by long tym● before his death pray duly thus/ else shall he not at his death be by and by laid up for pure gold in god's treasures, as frere Barons maketh yt● here seem, by miss rehearsing of saint austins words/ but he shall first be well purged / and all the spots & wrinkles that then remain, shall be clean burned out by the hot fire of purgatory/ or by other men's prayers and almoise deed, and other suffrages of the church done for him, be depured and cleansed before that he shall be laid up for pure gold in the treasures of god.  
And that saint austin meaneth here none otherwise than I do declare him: ye may well perceive if ye well advise his words which I have truly translated. And yet because ye shall the less doubt thereof/ saint austin shall himself declare that I truly declare you this place, by his own very plain words in another place. For in the xxxii sermon of the words of the apostle, 
Augustinus de verbis Apost serm. 32  lo thus he saith. No man ought to doubt, but that with prayers of the church and with the wholesome sacrifice, and with almose that is given for the souls of them that are departed, they are holpen to be more mercifully dealt with of our lord, than their sins have deserved. For this thing by the tradition of the old fathers, the whole catholic church observeth/ that is to wit, that what time they that deceaced in the communion and blood of christ, at the time of the sacrifice in their place and order, remembrance made of them, pray●ur should be made for them/ and not that only, but also that special rehearsal should then be made, that the same sacrifice is offered up for them to. Now when works of mercy are done in commendation and favour of them/ who can doubt, but that they are helped therewith, sith prayer made for them unto god is not fruitless? It is not in any wise to be doubted, but that these things secure & relieve them that are deceased. How be it only such men I say as have so lived before their death, that these things may do them good after their death. For in relief of them that be departed out of the body without faith working with charity, ●nd without the sacraments of the same/ such deeds of devotion are in vain used, the pledge or earnest penny of which devotion they lacked while they lived here, either because they would not receive the grace of god, or because they received it in vain, treasuring and laying up for themselves not mercy but wrath. wherefore when any good work is done for them that are deceased by their lovers and friends, they merit not of new/ but these things are given in reward, as things consequent and well following upon their merits which they deserved before while they lived. For it is not said that these things should help them only while they here live, and not when they are dead.  
And therefore every man when he endeth this life, can no thing receive, but that only which he hath deserved being here a live.  
And in another place he saith thus. what thing so ever of venial sins is not redeemed of us/ it must be purged with that fire, 
August. serm. 41● de aīa●us de●u●●●●rum.  of which the apostle saith, that the work shall appear by the fire/ and if any man's work burn, he shall suffer the loss. For either while we live in this world, we labour ourself with penance/ or else truly because god so will or suffereth it, we are punished with many tribulations for these sins. And then if we give thanks unto god, we be delivered. which thing is a this wise/ if our husband, or our wife, or our son die, or if our substance which we love more than we should do, be taken from us. For though we love christ above that substance, so that if need were, we would rather l●se that substance than deny christ: yet because as I have afore said, if we love that substance more than we should, and can not while we live or when we die lose it without great sorrow, and yet for all that if when we lose it, we give thanks as good children unto god, which as a merciful father suffereth our substance to be taken from us/ & if we with very humility confess that we suffer less punishment than we have deserved: the synnies be in such wise purged in this world, that in the world to come the fire of purgatory can find either no thing or right little to burn●. But then if we neither thank god in our tribulation, nor buy out our synnies with good works/ we shall so long abide in that fire of purgatory, till the venial synnies above named be consumed up as wood, hay, and stubblies. But some man will say, I force not how long I there abide, so that I may at the last go to the everlasting life. Let no man say thus my most well-beloved brethren/ for the fire of purgatory is more sharp than any pain that in this world can be seen, or thought or felt. etc.  
Lo good christian readers ye may clearly see by saint austins words here, that he mente not to deny purgatory there/ but affirmeth it plainly, sith he sayeth there is no doubt but that prayer and almose deed, and the oblation of that holy sacrifice offered for them in the mass, maketh the souls that are departed to be the more mercifully dealt withal, and their pains to be relieved. In which few words, saint austin witnesseth against more of their he●esyes than one. For he not only affirmeth purgatory against young father Fryth, and affirmeth also that almose deed and prayer may relieve the souls therein/ but over that he teacheth us against all these new sects, that good wurkes be meritorious, not only for himself that doth them, but also to other folk. And yet over that he teacheth us, that we may here merit & deserve in this life that other folks good deeds may merit for us and serve us when we be deed. It followeth also that sith we may pray for the souls that have need, they may also pray for us which have yet more need than they/ not for our present pain temporal, but for avoiding of perpetual sith soynt jamys saith, 
Iac●bi. 5.  Orate pro invicem ut sal●emini.  
saint austin affirmeth here also, that the blessed body and blood of christ in the mass, is a sacrifice and an oblation to god against Luther & all his adherentes.  
Finally he techth us here, that the tradition of the fathers, and the common observance and custom of the catholic church, is for the certification of a troth a sure undoubted authority.  
Now good christian readers, if ye like to take so much labour, as to read saint austins words again, in such wise as Barns rehearseth them in his book/ and than to compare them with his very words in deed as I have truly translated them: ye shall marvel much to see what wiliness he hath used therein, & yet what lack of wit therwith●  
For Barns hath as ye may see, taken pieces of saint austin, & pached them together with a word or twain of his own, some where between as though the words lay so together in the text as he rehearseth them/ where as he leaveth out by the way the very chief point of all, by which saint austin excepteth them from forgiveness at their death that than have dedely sin/ that is to say them that do die therein. And Barns leaveth of before he come to the point, le●t we should see that they which be forgiven so clean at their death, must use such ways thereto, as not every man so sufficiently useth to be so soon so clean forgiven, that yet dieth in the state of grace, and shall be laid up at last for pure gold in the treasures of god, but he shall in the furnace of the fire of purgatory be purely fyned first  
Also where as saint austin having his whole words well understanden, saith no more but that every such man of the church as dieth out of deadly sin, and with help of god in the virtue of Crystes passion, by faithful prayer contrition and great heaviness of heart, with diligence used in avoiding sin and doing good virtuous works in his life before, shall at his death be fully forgiven and laid up pure gold in the treasures of god. Frere Barns rehearseth his words in such wise, as though saint austin had said that every man of the very church without any exception, should pass hence pure & clean and forthwith go to god as though no man of this church could die in deadly sin/ whereof saint austin in these words, quae talia habebat ut dimiterentur, declareth plainly the contrary.  
Barns also concludeth, wherefore by this mean the church of god is in the treasures of god without spot or wrinkle. which words when I red swooned unto mine understanding, & so have they to many that I know have red them, that the church is in the treasures of god's foreknowledge and predestination alway pure and clean, where as saint austin saith nor meaneth no more, but that as many of the church as be forgiven, though many be not forgiven because they be the let of their forgiveness themself for lack of dew desiring, yet they that be, shall when the be, be laid up pure gold in god's treasury in one or other of those good shoppies, where shall never be more trial, pressing, nor stretching put unto them.  
Barns leaveth out also these words of saint austin, that god is the most cunning wu●keman, & goth about the cleansing of our spots, & stretching out of our wrinkles diligently/ but yet in this world in the course of our life, he is alway in doing of it, and hath not fully done it till we part hence by death.  
These words of saint austin which Barons here leaveth out, or purposely leaveth of ere he come at them/ do plain & full agree with that exposition that I gave you here in this book against Barns of saint Po●lys words that Barns brought in for him: you men love your wives as christ loved the church, and hath given himself for her that he might sanctify her and cleanse her in the fountain of water thorough the word of life, to make her to himself without spot or wrinkle, or any such thing but that she might be holy and without blame. Upon which words Barns there saith, here have you lo the very true church of christ that is so pure and clean that she neither hath spot nor wrinkle. which words of saint Poule as I partly told him there, prove no thing his purpose, For saint Poule sayeth there, but that christ gave himself to make her such/ and saith not that he shall make every part of her such, nor save in heaven all that he hath sanctified in baptism. But like wise as though god would every man were saved, which is to wit if every man/ so would himself ● yet because many men of their own frowardness will walk to damnation, whom god will not wrestle with to save them spite of their teeth because he considereth that he is of himself able to live without them/ so though he have given himself for his church to make her glorious without spot or wrinkle, & would have every man come and be part of his church and in her to be saued● and of her by him to learn the troth/ for he would saith th'apostle every man should be saved & come to the knowledge of the troth: 
1. Thimot. 2.  yet as many men will never come into her, as jews, Turks, and saracens, and many that have comen in to her have again gone from her, as have Luther, Huyskyn, & Suinglius, Lamkert, Huchyn, and Barons, and many great herety●ues more/ so many a man that abideth in her till his dying day, and believeth her true doctrine: yet because he will but believe it, and not in well working follow it, but will without due repentance die in deadly sin, he departeth from her● at his death as an uncurable rotten member east out in conclusion upon the dyvyls' dounghyll in hell. And those members of the church that will work well and not remain with frere Barons in faith alone/ god shall make them glorious without spot or wrinkle. But as saint austin saith here, though at their instant prayer he goth still about it here/ & always when they pray therefore he is in doing of it always washing and always stretching: yet part for intermission of their praying, part for their continual new bespotting and wryncling, he never endeth it here before their dying day/ so that the very church is here in earth, not even in the very best men thereof, pure & clean always without either spot or wrinkle/ as against faint austin's words here Barns boasteth himself, to prove by those words of the apostle, and as though he had clearly proved it, ●ayth, Here have you lo the very true church of Crist, that is so pure and so clean that it neither hath spot nor wrinkle.  
But now is it a world to see how Barns after this boast in that place, endeth now saint Anstaynes words with the clean contrary sentence/ against his own part/ and concludeth all the whole matter quite against himself ● & utterly destroyeth his own church/ and weening that pulling down were setting up, boasteth as much thereof to.  
For in the end lo thus he saith, And therefore here d●●●e not live without sin/ but we shall pass from hence without sin etc. Lo these words are Barons own, so written as thought they were saint austin's own with etc. And then he bringeth in upon them after his own etc. these words following, Here have you clearly that the church o● god is cleansed and purified by christ for knowledging of her sins. But letting pass that saint austin saith not that the whole church of christ here passeth he●se without sin, nor that every man that once is of his church here, shall after be of his church in heaven: let us take frere Barons own words, as though they were as he would have them seem, the very words of saint austin himself/ and that they were none other wise meant neither by saint austin, than Barns would have them taken, let us now see then first, what saith here frere Barons, and then what saith saint frere austin Barns.  
first frere Barons boasteth and saith, Here have you clearly that the church of god is clenged and purified by christ, for knowledging of his sins. But then ask we frere Barns, of which church is our question? Of the church of christ here in earth, or of the church of christ in heaven. To this frere Barns must needs grant, that all our matter of the church between him and us, is of the church of Criste here in earth. Then will we ask him, whither our matter be of men living or of men dying. And sith we speak of the church for the doctrine of the church/ I suppose that frere Barns will grant that he speaketh of the church as the men be living, quick and quething, while they may speak and talk, and confess what they believe/ and meaneth not to speak of them, only while they lie a dying speechless, and giving up the ghost. well than ye perceive now what frere Barons saith and of which church he bos●eth when he saith, Here you see clearly that god cleanseth and purifieth his church for knowledging of her sins. And which church it is that he saith is clean and pure without spot or wrinkle/ you se that he meaneth the very church here in earth living and in good health, of which men have the true doctrine, because that the very church is it he saith that can not err. Now sith we see what saith frere Barns: let us now see what saith frere saint austin Barns. He saith ye wot well, that the church shall pass hence without sin, and that it is in the treasures of god without spot or wrinkle/ but he saith that it liveth not here without sin.  
Lo good christian readers, where saw you ever any man give himself so fowl a fall as frere Barns hath here done/ which going about to prove us that the church of christ living here in earth, is a company all holy, pure, and clean without spot or wrinkle of sin, bringeth in for him saint austin/ whose words altered and framed by frere Barons after his own fashion, plainly declare & show that the church of christ while it liveth in earth, liveth not without sin, and therefore is never pure and clean without spots or wrinkles of sin.  
And thus were as Barns said in the beginning, that he would bring in saint austin to prove his purpose plain: he seemeth rather to bring saint austin in/ with plain words to prove frere Barns a fool/ specially sith he seeth not yet, what a fowl fall he hath/ but while he lieth in the mire all to tumbled in dirt, holdeth up his fowl sleeve and boasteth what a cleanly cote he hath, so pure and so clean without spot or wrinkle, that saint Peter could not find one drop of dirt thereon.  
But now that he hath so shamefully lost his own church of only good holy people unknown, clean and pure with out spot or wrinkle: yet that the very church must needs be an unknown church of only good holy men at the lest, though somewhat wrinkled and not all utterly spottelesse, and that it can in no wise be any known church/ this will frere Barns as he weeneth well & substantially prove, so that though he prove not his own that he promiseth, yet will he prove that it can not be ours, but some other that neither he nor we be ware of. And therefore he saith.  Barns. 
Such a church must there needs be, though that the carnal eye can not see her, nor the fleshly reason can judge of her. Wherefore we believe this article by faith, that holy church is a communion or fellowship of holy men. And we know it not by saying or feeling, as we do the fellowship of drapers or mercers/ for than were it none article of the faith.  More. 
Now let us argue like. A false jew might have said in Crystes days while he preached in Jerusalem: To believe christ must be a article of the faith/ ergo christ must be a person unknown, and not be perceived by the carnal eye, but only believed by faith, and not by seeing or feeling, as men know a draper or a mercer. Thus might in those days a false jew have argued, that christ had not been very christ, because he was a known person.  
And this argument in a manner made the false jews in deed, when they said: 
Iohn. 7.  we know this man whence he is/ but when christ cometh no man shall know whence he is.  
But as it might have be answered them, that as Criste was both by faith believed, and yet was also by sight and feeling known, as well as was in such wise known any draper or mercer either/ for the false jews knew him by the tone mean only, & his true disciples knew him by both/ and saint Thomas of Ind after he had both seen him and felt him, did by sight and feeling know his manhood, 
Iohan. 20  and therewith by faith believed his godhead: even so we know the church by sight, hearing, and feeling, as we know drapers & mercers. And we believe the spirit of god abiding therewith and leading it into all truth, 
I●han. 16  and christ the chief head thereof assisting it and preserving it from failing against all the gates of hell. 
Matth. 16.  And we believe that it is but one church by profession of baptism, holily dedecated unto god, and severed and openly known from all the manifold open sects of heretyques/ as the comen creed saith that is daily sungen at the mass, we believe one holy & apostolic church. which word apostolic wherefore it was put in, frere Barons will himself as it seemeth not let to confess, though Tyndale will not agree it.  
And we believe that the communion and fellowship of all such folk, so hallowed and dedicated unto god, where so ever they be in the world, agreeing together in the known catholic belief/ is the both known and believed holy catholic church of christ.  
Also we believe the communion of saints in another manner besides that/ that is to wit, we believe that such as live here in this church, and in this church also die in the catholic faith and in the state of grace, shall after this life have the communion and fellowship of the saints that are before departed into heaven, and that lived some time in this same known catholic church, and died in the same known catholic faith.  
Now if frere Barons ask me how I prove that these words of the creed, sanctam ecclesiam catholicam, be understanden of the known catholic church: I will prove it by the words of saint austin himself, because frere Barons being professed frere of saint austin's order, would seem to set much by him. Lo these be therefore the words of saint austin.  

Augus●. sermone 181. in vigilia Penthecostes  ye must know that we ought to believe the church, and not believe in the church/ for the church is not god, but the house of god. The catholic church he calleth the church that is spread abroad thorough out the hole world. For the churches of heretyques which be diverse, are not called catholic or universal churches. For they be contained every sect in some proper place, & in his own province. But this catholic church is spread abroad with the shining light of one faith, from the rysyuge up of the son to the going down. There is no greater richesse, no greater treasures, no greater honours, nor no greater substance of this world, than is the catholic faith, which saveth sinful men, and giveth to the blind their sight again, and healeth the sick, which also chrysteneth those that are new come to christian religion and justifieth the faithful, repaireth penitentes, increaseth the righteous folk, crowneth martyrs, giveth orders to the clergy, consecrateth priests prepareth us to the kingdom of heaven, & maketh us fellows & coparteners with the holy angels in the everlasting inheritance. who so ever he be, & what manner of man so ever he be/ he is no christian man that is not in the church of christ. For truly she is that only church, of which our lord gladly receiveth sacrifice/ and which only may without any distrust to be herd, make intercession for those that are wandered out of the way. For which cause also our lord commanded of the sacrifice of the paschal lamb saying, ye shall eat it in one house only, and ye shall bear no part of that flesh forth a doors. 
Matth. ●.  The lamb is eaten in in one house because the very true host of our redeemer is offered up in the one catholic church only. Of whose flesh god commanded & forbade, that no part should be borne out of the doors. For he forbiddeth us to give any holy thing to dogs. In this church only is a good work fruitfully done/ & therefore none received the reward of the penny, but they only that laboured within the vine yard. 
Matth. 2●●  It is she only that keepeth them with a strong bond of charity, that keep themself within her. And for this cause truly the water of Noyes flood carried the ark up to the hyghar places/ but she destroyed as many as she found without the ark. She is only that church, in which we may verily behold the heavenly mysteries. And therefore saith our lord to Moses I have a place & thou shalt stand upon a rock. 
Exodi. 33.  And soon after I shall take away my hand, & then thou shalt see me on the back half. For because the truth is perceived & seen only out of the catholic church/ therefore saith our lord that he hath a place from which he may be seen. Moses is set upon a rock to behold god's figure. For except a man hold & keep the sure fast ground of the faith/ he can not discern and know the divine presence.  
Dyssever saith saint Cyrpian the son beam from the whole body of the son/ the unity of the light receiveth no division. Break of a branch from a tree/ and as soon as it is once broken of, it can not any more bud. Cut away a river from the heed and anon it drieth up.  
By these words of Cyrpian we perceive, that the light receiveth no division in the holy men that are predestinate unto the kingdom of god, which can in no manner wise be divided from the church. And ●hat the branch broken of from the tree can no longer bud/ we understand it of the budding of the everlasting life. And the drying up of the river that is cut of from the cundytte heed, in this wise understand we, that they are void and empty of the holy ghost that are divided from the unity.  
The fellowship of the saints, that is to say let us hold ourself in the communion & fellowship of hope, with those saints which are deceased in this faith which we have received. Therefore if we will have fellowship with the saints in the everlasting life/ let us think upon the following of them. For they must recognize & find in us some what of their virtues, to th'intent they may voucesaufe to pray for us unto our lord. For if we can not bear the torments which the saints suffered even to the death: yet at the lest wise let us by their prayer and interce●syōs fight against concupiscences. For neither Abraam, nor Isaac, nor jacob, were put to death/ and yet by the merits of faith and justice, they deserved to be chy●fly honoured among the patriarchs. To whose feast is gathered every man that is found faithful, righteous, & laudable. And therefore my dearest brethren, all though we suffer no such thing, no bonds, no stripes, no prisonment, none other bodily torments, nor no persecution of men for righteousness sake: yet we may be able to obtain the fellowship of the saints, if we labour to chastise our body & make it subject, if we accustom our seluys to pray unto our lord with an humble spirit and a contrite soul, if we endeavour ourself to take with a peaceable mind the spyghtes that are done unto us by our neighbour, if we contend and strive with ourself to love those that hate us and do us wrong, & to do them good and to pray gladly for their life & well far, and to be with the virtue of patience, and the fruits of good works, garnished & made gay. For if our conversation be such/ & if we also according to the saying of the apostle, exhibit our bodies a lively host, holy & pleasant unto god/ we shall be gyfted with the heavenly honour that we may be in one glory rewarded with them, that for our lords sake gave their members to the death. For like wise as their death is precious in the sight of our lord, so let our life be to/ & than shall we be worthy also to enter into the. place of the city above/ and among the companies of the blessed martyrs, to render unto our redeemer the vows of thanks.  
Lo here have ye heard good christian readers how saint austin understandeth and exponeth both sanctam ecclaesiam catholicam the holy catholic church, and also sanct●rum communionem the communion or felesshyppe of saints. whereby frere Barns may see, that if he believe saint austin as he would seem to do, than is his own fond imagination quailed, by which he divyneth after his dyvynite, that these words sanctorum communionem do sharply prick the clergy, as he saith after in an other place in this manner.  Barns. 
That church that can not err, is all only the universal church, which is called the communion and fellowship of saints/ the which addition was made by holy fathers (for in saint Cyprianes time was there no mention of it) by all likelihood to declare the presumption of certain men and of certain congregations, that reckoned themself to be holy church. wherefore my lords see well to, lest the holy ghost have pricked you with this addition For you have always made yourself the holy church, ye and that without any holiness.  More. 
If there hath never been any holiness at all in all the whole spirituality/ than were those holy father's the Barns saith added in the crede sanctorum communionem, some holy carnal fathers. well be it so than for Baron's sake. But I dare say they were none such fathers as father frere Luther is, & as father frere Huyskyn is, that byget children by nuns. But this sufficeth here against frere Barns, that ye perceive by saint austin here, that frere Barns fond invention is failed.  
By these words of saint austin, ye see also that frere Barns in his gay babble, wherewith he would make men by leave that the church can not be the church but if it suffer persecution, and that no man might come to heaven nor be a true christian man, but if he were persecuted: here lo good readers, besides that it is a great persecution unto the church, and a right great grief and heaviness, to see so many of her membres wax so rotten and fall away from her body, by the incurable canker of these false fe●tered heresies / and that it is also sore persecuted both in body and goods by these false heretyques, in divers parts of Almaigne/ yet see you ferther here in the fore-rehearsed words, the thing that I told you before/ that as for persecution it sufficeth to suffer it when it is of necessity put unto them/ and men neither bounden to go seek it, nor so to suffer evil folk among themself, that the contagion of a few may corrupt a great many. which grown once in great number, may fall unto rebellion and persecute all the country. For saint austin showeth here well and clearly, that with out persecution, if we have as would god we had, so plenteously as our part were to have, such good charitable wurkes with the catholic faith, as himself rehearseth/ we may be good christian men and membres/ not only of the very church here in earth (which we may be by communion of faith though good wurkes want) but also of the very church in heaven.  
More over good christian readers, ye see that saint austin in these words, doth plainly show that the saints which are all ready in heaven, do pray for us that are here in earth/ which thing these heretyques will in no wise agree.  
Here see you also that these words sanctam ecclaesiam catholicam, by which frere Barns would make us ween that the holy catholic church were a secret unknown church scattered about the world/ sayn● austin well and plainly declareth if we consider well his words, that it must needs be this commune known catholic church.  
But now that I have plainly confuted frere Barons by saint austin himself, whose order and rule frere Barns professed, and whose words he so often allegeth for his purpose alway proving against his purpose: I will now for frere Barns ferther worship, confute him by the self same place of saint austin, which himself bringeth here forth for his special proof of his unknown holy church, to prove it a company of unknown faithful folk being holy by their only faith/ whereof these ar● frere Barns words.  Barns. 
This is well proved by your own law De con. di. 4. c. prima igitur whose words be these. Therefore is the church holy, because she believeth ryghtuousely in god. And then frere Barns goth forth with his own gloze upon these words and saith/ Hear you not the cause wherefore the church is holy? because she believeth ryghtuousely in god/ that is, she believeth nothing but in him, and she believeth nor heareth no word but his/ as our master christ beareth witness: My sheep hear my voice, and another man's voice do they not know.  More. 
Baron's here holdeth on his old craft, in furnishing his own gloss with falsefyenge the scripture of god. For ye shall understand good christian readers, that saint Iohn the evangelist, 
Io●●̄. 1●.  out of whose gospel Barons hath taken the words of our saviour christ, rehearseth them not in such wise as Barns doth/ that is to wit, that the sheep of christ do not know the voice of any other man. But he saith that the sheep of christ do not follow any stranger, but do i'll from him, because they know not the voice of strangers. And now cometh Barons and telleth us, that christ said that his sheep do not know the voice of any other man/ as though the church should refuse all other words then only those that Criste spoke in his own person. But christ said not they should hear none other, but that they should not hear strangers. For by other men whom he sendeth, his flock heareth his own words. And therefore he saith himself to his true catholic preachers/ he that heareth you heareth me. But by strangers, 
Lucae. 1ST  that is to wit by heretyques, which be strangers from the household of Crystes catholic church, and which do strangely rehearse and strangely declare Crystes catholic scripture, against the known catholic doctrine of Crystes known catholic church, by the voice of such strangers, that is to wit by the voice of such heretyques, Christ's sheep can not hear their own shepherd christ. And therefore they i'll from every such stranger, according as saint Poule whose voice Cristes' sheep do hear, because he was another and not a stranger, saith un Crystes flock, 
Titum. 3.  That man that is a heretic after the first or the second warning estewe and i'll from.  
And thus ye see good readers, how fere Barns here false fyeth and wrong interpreteth the words of christ in the gospel of saint Iohn.  
But now let us return to consider the words of that law that Barons hath here rehearsed you/ from which I have been as ye see a little letted by this other false point of his in false rehearsing the scripture.  
But now concerning that law good readers/ you shall understand that the words of that law be taken out of a sermone of saint austin, which he made unto certain persons forthwith upon their baptism. In which sermone among many other things that he preached unto them, both in the same and other two sermons that he had made them before/ he saith unto them thus: where as we have asked each of you, believest thou in holy church, remission of sins, and resurrection of the flesh: we asked you not after that manner, that you should even in the same manner as you believe in god, believe in the catholic holy church/ which church is therefore holy and catholic, because it believeth right in god. And therefore we said it not, to th'intent that ye should believe in the church as ye should believe in god/ but understand you that we bid you and did bid you, that being conversant in the holy catholic church, you should believe in god, and that you should believe also the resurrection of the flesh that is to come.  
Lo good christian readers, here have you heard that in the self place where as saint austin saith that the church is holy and catholic, because it believeth right in god, because none of all the sects of heretyques can be holy nor catholic, that is to say universal/ sith very holiness can none be out of the right church, nor god shall suffer no sect of heresy to spread over all the world so as he spread the universal church: in the self same place I say saint austin declareth, that by these words, I believe in the holy catholic church, is not meant that we shall believe therein as we believe in god/ but that that we must believing one holy catholic church, abide and be conversant in the same one holy catholic church/ and believing in god, continue in that one holy catholic church, and not go out thereof into any of so many fold diverse sects of he retyques. By which ye may plainly perceive that saint austin there declareth the holy catholic church of the right belief, to be y● comen one universal known church dystyncte and divided from all the known churches of heretyques. For if it were unknown, how should he bid them by that exposition of that article, abide and be conversant in it? or how could he as he saith a little also before in same sermon, as is also rehearsed in the same law, say that the ceremonies used in the baptism were instituted by the same catholic church? For if it were unknown, how could it any thing institute or ordain?  
And finally to put out of all doubt & question, that saint austin obhorreth from frere Barns heresy, that argueth upon that article of the creed, that the church should be an unknown church/ saint austin sayeth plainly as I showed you before against Tyndale, that likewise as he were accursed that would say that christ was not a man known, so accursed be he that sayeth the church of christ is not a church known.  
Lo thus are we now good christian readers comen unto an end of frere Barons church, in which ye plainly see that he can neither agree with Tyndales unknown church of repentant sinners, nor impugn the comen known catholic church of christ, nor prove his own secret church of only saints unknown. Nor he hath not alleged as ye see well also, neither any one text of holy scripture, nor any sentence of holy doctor/ but falsefyenge them and framing them a fresh after his own fashion/ yet have they not only nothing proved for him, but in conclusion clearly proved against him.  
And therefore will I (to end where Barns endeth himself) let you somewhat see how he handleth saint Bernard, and there withal fynyshe this book.  Barns. 
But let us see what saint bernard saith on you. They call themself the ministers of christ, but they serve antichrist/ they go gorgyousely a rayed of our lords goods, unto whom they give none honour. And of those goods cometh the harlots decking that thou seest daily, the game players disguising, and kings apperrell. Of this cometh gold in their brydelles, in their sadelles, and in their spurs/ so that their spurs be brighter than the altars. Of this cometh their plenteous wine presses and then full sellers, blolking from this unto that. Of this cometh their tons of sweet wines. Of this be their b●ggys so filled/ for such things as these be, will they be rulers of the church/ as dekens, archdekens, bishops and archbishops etc.,  
My lords, I had thought to bave added cardinals and legates, abbots and priors, to have made the company more holy. But I durst not. How think you? Of whom doth he speak when he saith bishops and archishops? What holiness doth he reprove, when he speaketh of grievous array 〈…〉  More. 
Now good readers here is an end of frere Barons pro●●●● concerning the chyrche● which process he hath ●n●●● w●th saint Berna●de. By whose words Barns would ●t s●olde s●●e that sa●nt Berna●de w●re of his opinion/ th●t is to wit that such as a●e evil a●e not of the church. ●nd th●n were the church and unknown church of only good ●olke alone/ how be it not yet precisely his church/ for his church is y● wot well a church of folk not meanly good but of folk so good so pure and so clean that there be not among them all so much as either spot or wrinkle.  
●ow be it though saint bernard should not prove Barons church/ yet would frere Barons ●hat saint Bernard s●old s●me to prove the church to be at the lest an unknown church of only good folk/ and so to prove that the known catholic church were not the church. For as for ●arns o● truth and all his fellows to● so they might disprove and destroy this church that is they care not greatly for the ●akynge of another.  
yet would frere Barons farther● that saint bernard should seem to despise and set at nought all holy ornaments ●nd call them harlots decking/ and then by the same ●eanes despise all other holy ceremonies of the church.  
●ut ● shall show you good reders●●yrst that saint Ber●●●●● proveth nothing for frere Barns no● against the ●●owen catholic church though his wo●des ●ere but 〈…〉 ●arns rehearseth them.  
〈…〉 s●all I show you that 〈◊〉 Ba●ns playth with saint Bernard here● as ye have seen him before play with saint Austayn● & with saint Poule● & with saint Iohn the evangelist/ that is to wit rehearse him false and chaun●e some words, & keep some words away to make his mate● s●me sweet. Finally shall I show you the saint bernard not in this heresy only concerning the question which is the church, but also in all frere Barns other heresies was his very special enemy and then will I make ●n end.  
For the first point, if saint bernard sa●d here all as frere Barns rehearseth him/ yet what had he ●ayde for frere Barns concerning the chyrch● do all those wo●des amo●●t to any more● then that there are in every kind of 〈◊〉 of the church, some that are nought. And who den●eth tha● And then saith also that all such as so be/ do serve An●i●chryste and not christ. And who saith nay? who s●●th t●● evil folk s●rue god well/ doth not every man agreed th●● evil christian people do by their deadly sins ser●● th● devil. If frere Barons will any thing prove us by 〈◊〉 bernard, he must show where saint Berna●de ●●●th that such as are evil are not of the church.  
He showeth us no such word. And ●●t might 〈◊〉 Bernarde● and many an other holy man ●aye such a word● and yet mean no such thing thurby. For he that 〈◊〉 say in a sermon● that a monk that b●eketh ●ys 〈◊〉 or any of his other vows is neither monk● nor 〈…〉 man● but much worse than a jew/ meanss 〈…〉 he is no longer a monk in deed nor a member 〈…〉 monastery. Nor he that would say that a wo●●n t●at ●●●keth her obedy●ce to her husband were not a wife/ 〈◊〉 not that her husband were therefore discharged of her a●● may take an other wife. Nor he that saith a drunken 〈◊〉 is no woman but a sow/ meaneth not thereby perd● 〈…〉 her children shallbe pyggys'.  
The prophet speaketh in the person of our 〈…〉 self: I am a wurme and not a man, & yet meant 〈…〉 to deny that he was a very man in deed but 〈…〉 in so vile manner handled at his passion as thou●● 〈…〉 no man but a very vile wurme. A man 〈…〉 whom he giveth meat drink & w 〈…〉 stealth do to some other more seruyc● th' 〈…〉 star/ ye and secretly sometime against 〈…〉  
And therefore ou● saviour said not 〈…〉 masters but he ●ayd no man can 〈…〉 if he have twain, while he serveth the tone, he shall leave the other unserved. And therefore though saint bernard say that they serve antichrist, and that they serve the devil if he had said also, and therefore they be no servants of christ, nor be no christian men but Christ's enemies & very antechrystes: yet had he not meant in all this, that they were for all this out of the church, and none of it while they were such, and than of it again when they were amended, and out of it again as soon as they sinned again/ & thus play in and out, like in dock, out nettle, that no man should wit when they were in and when they were out, nor know which were the church.  
Thus have I showed you good readers, that all though saint Bernard had said in deed as Barns falsely rehearseth him, ye & somewhat more to/ yet had it not proved for Barns.  
Now for the second point, ye shall understand that Barons hath untruly translated you saint Bernardes' words. For letting pass some pieces that he hath left out in the mids, for no cause that I can see but if it were for lack of learning, and letting pass some such also as he hath miss translated of ignorance: I will show you but one place or twain, which he hath with one word or twain so changed of malice, that he hath turned the sentence for his purpose clean against the mind of saint bernard that wrote it. For even in the very first beginning where saint bernard saith thus: Ministri Christi sunt & serviunt Antichristo/ that is, They be the mynystres of christ & they serve antichrist: Barns hath translated it thus, They call themself the ministers of christ, but they serve Antichrist. So that where saint Bernard saith, that though they serve antichrist yet they be the mynystres of christ in his church here/ frere Barns turneth that an other way, & maketh as though saint bernard said not that they be so, but said only that they call themself so. And in like wise after in the end, where as saint Bernard saith, pro huiusmodi volunt esse, & sunt ecclesiarum ppositi/ that is, For such things as these be will they be rulers of churches, and so they be, as deanies, archdekyns etc. Barns hath translated it thus, For such things as these be, will they be rulers of the church, dekyns, archdekyns etc. And these words, so they be/ he leaveth out, as though saint Bernard said not that they were any rulers in the church, but only saith that they would be so.  
And than when he hath in such wise falsely translated saint bernard to make him seem to say so/ than he lieth out aloud, & saith unto them himself, Lo saint bernard saith that you be neither the church nor of the church. whereof as ye see saint bernard sayeth by plain words the contrary/ which plain words of saint Berua●de frere Barns hath as ye plainly see, of plain & pure malice manifestly & falsely changed. And who so ever that is learned & read the same sermon of saint Bernard, shall there evidently see that saint bernard calleth the very church of christ, the common known catholic church, and none unknown church. For he lamenteth there the estate of the church, which he calleth also there the body of christ/ whereby ye may see that he speaketh of the very church of christ in earth.  
Now than showeth he there that this church hath been in diverse times diversely vexed/ first by paynims that were never of it/ secondly by heretics which were of it and went out of it/ and thirdly by naughty folk and evil rulers that be of it still and go not out, of whom he saith those words that Barons hath falsely translated/ and four by very good men thereof also, which abiding therein and being also still thereof, be yet sometime beguiled by the subtle slayght of the most wily devil, under colour of going about some far better thing. And this process of those four vexations of the church, saint bernard there bringeth in upon these words of the prophet. A timbre n●c●urno, a sagitte volantis in die, a negocio perambulantis in tenebris, ab incursu et demonio meridiano/ assygning to every one of those four vexations one of those four kinds of devils. By all which whole process together, who so be learned and read it shall see Barns heresy concerning the very church, very full and plain overthrown. For there shall he plainly see, that saint bernard whom Barns here bringeth in to prove that evil folk be none of the very church of christ, but only good holy folk/ declare there expressly, that the very church of christ which he calleth there the body of christ/ is the whole number of both good and bad, divers of living and yet one in belief/ out of which one church all the churches of heretics be departed.  
Now where as Barns also saith, that saint bernard calleth all the holy ornaments harlattes decking, & game players disguising, as though saint barnard did as himself doth, ●ocke and scorn all hallowing of copies, vestiments and chalices, and such other ornaments as are used in the church about the divine service/ which kind of hallowed things frere Barns in mockage and scorn accounteth among other profane things, and joineth together in the leaf of his book next before, books, bells, candles, chalices, oil, chrism, and holy water, with horses, hounds, and such other goodly ge●e, to hear him now make as though saint bernard said the same, it is a thing to abominable. For which cause to th'intent ye may the more clearly know how far saint Bernard was from the favouring of frere Baron's heresies, I shall give you a plain sample or twain.  
Saint Bernard likeneth apostatas unto the traitor judas. 
〈◊〉 serm. ●●super ●ersum ter●●●m Psalms. 90.  I would frere Barons had spied and brought us forth that/ for in that place he likeneth unto judas, not only those apostatas that cast of their habits and run out at rovers, as frere Barns doth, & as judas did after the maundy/ but also those religious folk that are apostatas in their mind, and yet bide still in their habit and in their cloister, because they can not run out of their cloister & cast of their habit for fere of worldly shame. By which words of saint Bernard ye may good readers perceive, that such apostasy as is in our wretched days with much people little esteemed, was had in saint Bernardes' time among all christian people for a thing so shameful, and abominable, that those which else would fain have run out of religion, and thought themself in the fire almost all the while they were therein, yet durst not for all that run out for the very shame that they should have had to look any man in the face.  
Sa●nt bernard also detesting such apostasy, and the pestilent heresies into which such● apostatas commonly do fall, 
〈…〉. 241  writeth unto Hildefonsus the earl of Tolowse against one Henry an apostata, run out of religion, and corrupting the country with many such poisoned heresies as these apostatas do now. And to th'intent that ye may the better and the more fully perceive the goodness of saint bernard in this matter, and his fruitful labour & pain taken to the honour of god and profit of christian people, and by god againward with many great open miracles allowed and approved against the said Henry frere Barns double brother, that is to wit as well in heresy as in apostasy: I shall rehearse you somewhat of the matter out of the story, that was by a very virtuous holy man, in the same time that the thing was done, written in the life of saint Bernard. In the parts of Tolouse, one whose name was Henry, some time a monk, and after that a lewd apostata, of a very ungracious living, and pernicious doctrine, by his persuasyble words had turned the wavering people of that country/ and as th'apostle foresaid of certain folk, he lived in hypocrisy, and lied, and made merchandise of them by false feigned words. For he was a manifest enemy of the church, derogating unreverently both the holy sacraments and ministers of the same. And he had now prevailed very much in his malice. For as our reverent father saint Bernard writing of him to the prince of Tolouse, amongs other things sayeth: every where almost where he went, men might find the churches without people, people without priests, priests without dew reverence, & finally christian men without christ.  
The life of christ was shut from the babies of christian folk, while the grace of baptism was denied. prayers were mock at, and the oblations for men's souls, praying to saints, the sentence of excommunication, the pilgrimage of faithful folk, the byelding of churches, the sparing from bodily work on the holy days, the consecrating of the holy cream & oil, and finally all manner ordinances of the church, were set at nought. In this necessity this holy man often thereunto instantly required by the christian folk of that country, at the last took his journey/ persuaded and brought thereunto, by the most reverent father in god Albericus bishop of Hostyens, and legate of the see apostolic. And when he came thither, he was received of the people there with an incredible devotion, as though an angel had comen down unto them from heaven. Nor long might he not tarry with them, for that no man was able to keep bakke the throng of the people from him/ so great was the multitude of them that came to him daily and nightly, calling upon him for his blessing and his help. yet preached he certain days in the city of Tolouse, and in all such other places as that wretch most had haunted and most grievously had infected many a simple soul in the faith, in those places saint bernard instructed and strengthened them that were wauerynge● revoking them that erred, setting up again those that were overthrown over throwing and keeping under by his anthoryte, the subverters, and all those that were obstinate / all whom he overthrew and repressed in such wise, that they neither durst resist, nor so much as appear and show themself. How be it though that heretic was then fled, and had hid himself/ yet were his ways in such wise stopped, and his paths so beset, that scanty he could after lurk sure in any place/ and was at the last taken and fast bound and brought to the bishop.  
In this journey of saint bernard, god was in his said servant glorified by many miracles, while he called back the hearts of some from their wicked errors, and some also cured from diverse diseases of their bodies.  
There is a place in the same country, called Sarlate, where after his sermon finished, they brought many loaves of breed to the servant of god (as the custom was every where) to be hallowed/ which Louis of breed he life up his hand, and in the name of god blessed them with the sign of the cross, and said unto the people: by this shall ye know that the things which we tell you be true, and the things which these heretyques tell you be false/ if ye see that your sick folk after that y● have tasted of this breed be cured. Then the reverent father the bishop of Carnotenses, that great famous man bishop Galfryde (for he was there present and next the man of god) somewhat ferenge lest that miracle of curing should not fall upon every sick man that should eat of that breed, said unto the people: Those sick folk shall find help that eat of this breed with a good faith. But then saint Bernard nothing doubting of the power of our lord answered, That is not the thing that I would have said/ but that verily who so ever taste thereof shall be cured, to th'intent they may thereby know that we be true, and the very true messengers of god.  
So great a number of sick people, by the tasting of that same breed recovered, that the tidings thereof was published through out all the province/ so that that holy man returning by the places near there about, was for the intolerable concourse of people fain to turn out of his way, and tere to go thither.  
Now good christian readers, here may ye perceive that holy saint Bernard●, with whose words frere Barons as though saint Bernard were his special patron, so proudly maketh an end of all his peevish process, is so full, so open and so plain against him in all his whole heresies, that a man would marvel where frere Barns wit was when he brought him in. For first we have seen that the very words of saint bernard which Barns bringeth, new framed by himself, and falsely forged for his own advantage, do plainly make against his purpose that he bringeth them for. And now ye see farther here, that saint bernard also was very enemy to Barons all other heresies/ and not only did preach against the self same heresies that Barons now setteth forth, but did also prove them false, and the faith of the catholic church true, by manifold open miracles. And finally where Barons reproveth the church for persecuting of heretics: ye see that holy saint bernard whom Barns so specially bringeth in for his part, did plainly pursue them, and laboured for their punishment himself.  
And farther have I showed you, that saint Bernard in the self same process out of which frere Barns hath picked and falsifieth those few words that he bringeth/ doth plainly to frere Barons confusion in his principal purpose of the church, declare & make open that the very true church of christ his mystical body here in earth, is no secret unknown church, as frere Barons goth about to make it seem/ but is out of all question, this one comen well known catholic church of all christian nations, as I before have specified, left together in the stock of unite of the known catholic faith, dystyncte and divided from all the manifold withered branches of so many sundry scysmies and sects, as from the beginning unto these wretched days have with obstinate malice wilfully fallen therefro.  
And in this wise good christian readers here end I this book against frere Barons evil and unchristen process/ wherewith against the promise of christ, 
Matth. 1●.  the devil and he labour in vain to pull down Crystes church.  
Thus endeth the viii book.