A TOUNG-COMBAT, LATELY HAPPENING, Between two English soldiers; in the Tilt-boat of Gravesend.  
The one go-ing to serve the King of spain, The other to serve the States of Holland.  
PRINTED With Approbation. 1623.   

To the Right worshipful, SIR EDWARD PARHAM Knight, Sergeant Major of the Regiment of the Right honourable The LORD VAUX, in the service of the King of spain in the Netherlandes.  
IN my late passage down from London to Gravesend by Tiltboat, there chanced among others, two gentlemen at that present also to pass, being both of military profession, but differently disposed in their determinations touching the sides they went to serve on, for after some course of speech that passed among the compagnie: the one discovered his intention to go over into the Netherlandes to serve the King of spain, and the other manifested his purpose to go to serve the States of Holland, but because each of them seemed fortified with reason for his determination, and to think himself as well able to defend it as he seemed willing to follow it, all the compagnie out of a curiosity wear very desirous to hear what by either could be said, but yet with a proviso that no inconvenience or falling out between them upon it might ersue, and therefore they desired them, that before they began seriously to argue the matter, they should pass their words to each other upon their honours, that without injuring one another in particular, each might have his free speech, in defence of his own determined course, & that their argunig being ended, their should no exceptions be taken, either by them or any of the compagnie, for ought that had been spoken, but that both they & all the rest of the compagnie (their discourse being ended) should in civil and courteous manner carry themselves, & so take their leaves of each other, when their ways lay to be separated.  
To this all agreed, and these twdyn gave each other their hands, upon the conditions, & there upon began between them a Toung-combat, wherein neither of both were slain or maimed, and because it may be some recreation unto you to understand how the matter passed, I thought good now at my soon leisure, & as well as my memory would permit me, to pen it down, & to present it unto your view, to whom I hold my best endeavours obliged, & thus kissing your hands I take my leave, wishing unto you the atchyving of all honour, answerable unto your noble valour and courage.  
The devoted honourer of your virtues D. N.   

To the Reader.  
BECAUSE the ensuing discourse is dialogue wise, & that some note of distinction must of necessity be used; seeing I know not these gentlemen's names: I have th●gh● good to note them by their scarves, as by calling him that was to go to serve the King of spain by the name of Red-scarf, according to the colour of the scarf he wore, & to call the other by the name of Tawney-scarf, because he wore a scarf of the colour of Orange-tawney.  
The compagnie, after the conditions of quietness at parting were agreed upon, became all silent, to hear them begin, The first then (being Tawney-scarf) began in this manner.  
IT seemeth strange unto me, that any of our Countrymen should rather resolve to serve the King of spain, then thee States of Holland, considering how long their cause & quarrel had been by Englishmen supported, and the number of our Countrymen that continue to serve on that side.  Red-scarf. 
It seemeth as strange unto me that men of sense and understanding, should not rather regard the justness of the cause & quarrel which they are to def●d (especially when they are not constrained, but that their resolution lieth in their own choice) then to let themselves be blindfolded & led forward by sinister suggestion, to follow the un understanding vulgar multitude for company or custom sake, because they have continued so long a time to serve on that side, without knowing or caring wherein right or wrong consists.  Tawney-scarf. 
You must not think that the first resolution taken for the assistance of the Hollanders was without good consideration of the justness of their cause, and the same being once begun and continued, what needed further doubt or scruple be made thereof by the after-followers of it?  Red-scarf. 
Because it is no article of faith, to believe that the first resolution taken in England for the assisting of the Hollanders; was not without good consideration of the justness of their cause, diverse have since penetrated further in to it, to see whether it so were or not, but could not so find it, & therefore those you speak of, that have followed it without scruple, have been people that were not scrupulus at all, for there is no cause be it never so bad, but some will be found without any scruple willing to follow it.  Tawny scarf. 
I know their are some that are ready enough to embrace the following of bad courses, but what concerns that this?  Red-scarf. 
If the cause of the Hollanders by any undisprooveable reasons of yours shall appear unto me to be just, I shall not only be sorry for mine error in not apprehending it so to be, but resolve to go along with yourself unto their service.  Tawney-scarf. 
I am glad to hear you speak so, & therefore I will endeavour to give you satisfaction in hope of the having of your good compagnie.  
Three causes I conceive to have been the motives why Queen Elizabeth did first undergo her assisting the Hollanders.  
The first was, their being oppressed and wronged by the King of spain, and in danger to be brought under the severity, of the Spanish inquisition.  
The second was in regard they were our so near ajoining friends & neighbours.  
And the third and that not the least, was for the maintenance of the Gospel.  Red-scarf. 
You have here alleged sundry reasons to have caused Queen Elizabeth to take the Hollanders parts, it is reason then that If so be I cannot allow them for sufficient reasons, I prove them not so to be, which by your patience & permission, I think I shallbe able to do.  
The first point is about their being oppressed and wronged by the King of spain, and in danger to be brought under the severity of a Spanish inquisition.  
That these people lived in obedience of King Philip the second of spain▪ as did all the other inhabitants of the seventeen netherlands Provinces, acknowledging him as their true & lawful Sovereign Lord, as they had acknowledged his anceters before him from whom he successive inherited those countries, no man can make any doubt or question, The question than is whether this King when he came to the possession of these countries, did impose upon the people any pressures more than his former ancestors had done, but who is able to show that he did? The said King being then in as full and quiet possession of all those countries as ever any of his ancestors had been, & departing from thence towards spain in the year 1559. he left none of his netherlands subjects for any cause of innovation, in any thing, any whit disgusted, but in as great tranquillity as ever they had been, He left behind him in those countries no Spanish Governors nor Soldiers, but gave the particular governments to the nobility of the country itself, and the general Government of them all, unto his natural sister the Duchess of Parma, being of the same country borne, what wrong in any respect was here done them? who complained of any wrong? why was not the good peace and reciprocal love between this King and his netherlands subjects continued? who began the breach? what actions of innovation caused it? proceeded it from this Prince or from the netherlands people?  
When no thought nor cogitation was in this King's mind of any breach between him and his subjects, in the year of our Lord 1566. certain of the rascality being suggested by seditious preachers, & those preachers set on by some of nobility little better than bankrupt, they begun in most rebellious rage to fall to the robbing and spoiling of Churches, The Duchess of Parma being at Bruxelles when the news of his outrageous and general sacrilegious theft, was brought unto her, was much amazed there at, and demanded of the Earl of Barlamont, (who then was present) what they were that had done this, where unto he answered her in French, Ce ne sont que de Geus, which is as much to say in English They are but rogues, or rascals. The Church robbers and those that set them on work, whereof some were gentlemen (though much unworthy of that title) having gotten knowledge how the name of Geus was given them, did forthwith accept of the name, and wore in stead of brooches on their hats little wooden dishes, to betoken beggars dishes, & some of that sort did afterward wear fox-tayles in their hats in steed of feathers, so as it seemeth they took a glory in this worthy name, for they also caused a print or stamp of a cock to be made, at whose mouth the words, Vive les Geus par tout le monde, were set down, which is as much to say, as Live or flourish may the rogues over all the world, & the paper prints or pictures taken from this stamp, were set up in all houses, taphowses and taverns, where they frequented, here hence it cometh that in all the low countries this kind of people do unto this day bear the name of Geuses, howbeit they have since been taught to call themselves The Reformed, but protestants they neither do, or ever did call themselves.  
Here have you the original and beginning of the breach between the King of spain, & these his Netherlands subjects. And as touching their being oppressed and wronged by the King of spain, and in danger to be brought under the severity of the Spanish inquisition. The blame that the King of spain heerin deserveth, is, that he was so much over shot that when he heard of their breaking down of Altars, & Images in Churches, of their robbing and carrying thence of silver Chalices, patrens, cruets, candlesticks, lamps, & reliquaries, with the tapestry, and whatsoever they might make money of, even to the very bells in the steeples, he had not commended it to be well done, and sent them rewards for so doing, & so have let them run on even to the taking of the crucifix out of the Church, and hanging it on the gallows as they did at Gorcum in Holland, an act that albeit the devil, jews, and Geuses, could take pleasure in, yet would very Turcks and mahometans be scandalised to behold it.  
Now because the King of spain had sworn at his being in the Netherlandes; to defend the Church and Ecclesiastical persons in their ancient & Christian privileges, and that he apprehended Churche-robberie to be theft, he so much wronged these people as to send the Duke of Alva to punish this theft, which as I take it, was as little wrong as to hang a minister for stealing of a book of Martyrs out of a Parish Church in London.  Tawney-scarf. 
You have here said something, but the Duke of Alva was not satisfied with the hanging and punishing of a number of these, but he sought to have brought in and intruded upon them the Tirannons' inquisition of spain, which was a mere innovation, & such as the privileges of the country could not bear.  Red-scarf. 
The Duke of Alva had never charge from spain nor never intention of his own, to bring an inquisition into the Netherlandes, this is but a mere calumny, which hath been given out & spread abroad by the seditious, to foster the obstinaty of the people, But had the inquisition been brought into the Netherlandes, it had but returned from whence in long fore going years it came, for you must note that the inquisition was never invented or brought up in spain, or there ever intended for Protestants, seeing it was in the world many ages before ever the world was acquainted with the name of Protestants, or with any such kind of people as Protestants are, for the Emperor Charles the great who lived about 800. years past, did first promulgate and put it in practice, and the cause was, that after the Saxons in their country of Saxony, (Holland, and those annexed provinces, being at that time parts of the Nether Saxony) had been brought from Paganism to Christianity, this pious Emperor having greatly furthered it, he had no soover turned his back by reason of his being impeached with wars in other parts, but these Saxons turned from Christianity back again to paganism, and for such Apostates and forsakers of the faith he ordained an inquisition, the memory whereof gave example that some ages after it was renewed and put in practice in spain, for such moors & jews, as having received the character of Christ fell back again to Mathometisme, and Indaisme, and albeit this inquisition was never intended (as before is said) to have been renewed in the Netherlandes, yet peradventure it might have proved as necessary when signs appeared of the good disposition of some there, aswel to Mahometisme, as to judaism, for diverse that are yet living have seen written upon the targets or rondasses which some of these Geus gallants did bear, their resolution there unto, in these words, Rather Turkish, then Popish, which is in effect, rather Mahomet than Christ, and Hollanders report themselves that some of their countrymen have been so edified in the present Synagogue of Amsterdam, that they have relinquished their Christianity & are become Jews, & for defect of an inquisition had not any thing said unto them for it, nor must they where profession is made of such conscience liberty, that every man may choose what he will believe, or whether he will believe any thing or nothing. But this may seem the less wonder, whenthere have been found among these geuses, a company that marched under the ensign of the devil, for so was the ensign called, because there were depicted therein the Divelles' claws, which ma●…ie that are yet living have seen displayed in the town of Liere in Brabant, at such time as it stood out in rebellion against the King, & so may you now see how rebellion against the king, & rebellion against God, do concur together, for where as ancient good Christians having been taught by the example of the most glorious Christian Emperor Constantinus Magnus, to fight under the sign of the Cross, these new contrary Christians, abhorring that sign, have more devotion to the claws of the devil, a well devised and befitting ensign for such as fought under it.  Tawncy-scarf. 
I wot well there is in Holland free liberty of conscience allowed to all, and free exercise of Religion allowed to some, but of any their inclining to Mahometisme or to judaism, or of their marching under the devils claws, have I not heard.  Red-scarf. 
Where free liberty of conscience is allowed, why may not every one believe as him list? what shall restrain him? If you doubt of the Hollanders making difficulty of turning Turckes, do but inquire what they have done at Tunis where they have fal●…e to Mahometisme by whole shipfulls at once, and afterward to mend the matter have taught the mahometans of those parts, the laudable science of piracy, for the more affliction of Christians, and as for judaism, such as like there of and like no swine flesh▪ or can be content to forbear the eating thereof may be circumcised when they will, and then speak as much blasphemy against Christ as the devil will direct them to do.  
Thus have I here showed you, what great wrong the King of spain hath done this people, and what great cause they have to complayn of his breach of their privileges, which is alwaycs in their mouths, albeit they would never vouchsafe to produce any one old privilege for the robbing of Churches.  
I have also showed you where the inquisition began, and the cause why it was first put in practice in Saxony, & afterward in spain, the name whereof is now as much put in practice in Holland, in continual pamphlets & preachings, as is the name of a Bulbegger to make little children afraid.  Tawney-scarf. 
These be things I have not to do withal.  Red-scarf. 
But these be things that belong to the purpose, here to be alleged.  Tawney-scarf. 
The Hollanders were and are, our near neighbours & friends, and therefore Queen Elizabeth saw great reason to uphold them, against her potent enemy the King of spain.  Red-scarf. 
Before I come to discourse about Queen Elizabeth's reason for taking the Hollanders parts give me leave I pray you to speak a little of the blind ignorance of our vulgar multitude here in England, to the end you may consider of the reasons why they hate the Spagniard, & love the Hollander, to see how well & wisely this love & hatred is founded.  
That England and spain have anciently remained in great amity together Histories & Chronicles will witness, and the diverse alliances and marriages often made between those two countries, can also give testimony thereof. True then it is, that the great breach and hostility between England and spain began but in these our days, let us now see & consider why & how it began, to wit, whether by spain or by England.  
King Philip the second of spain as all the world knoweth, did upon the death of Queen Marie his wife, give place and quiet entrance unto Queen Elizabeth, & for further proof of his desire of continuance of peace and amity with her he freely gave unto her all Queen Maries jewels, they justly belonging unto himself, he also kept his Ambassador leaguer in England; as the said Queen kept hers also in spain, profeising out wardly unto him all love and amity, and yet this notwithstanding, she permitted secretly and underhand, the transport of Artillery and Munition of war to the Moors of Granado to enable them to rebel, just about the very same time that the netherlands rebellion was determined to be begun, that thereby thee King of spain might have his hands full, by being thrust into two wars at once, both which she underhand furthered, but more the war of the Netherlandes then that of Granado, because of the readier commodity. Soon upon the contriving of this plot, when the King of spain to appease the netherlands broils in the beginning, had sent the Duke of Alva with forces into those parts, and after his arrival there, sent him a supply of 600000 crowns, some affirm it to have been 800000. she ceased upon this money in the west part of England, and having gotten it into her hands, did therewith assist his netherlands Rebels, whereby his money ordained to have served himself against his rebels, came to serve his rebels against him, and bred besides this a far greater inconvenience, for it was the cause why the Duke of Alva demanded the tenth penny of the country peoples goods, whereby they became the more alienated and apt to rebellion.  
Some years after this; Captain Drake was employed from England to the west-Indies, where he rob the King of spain of about a million and a half, of his treasure, These and sundry other wrongs and detriments were done by the said Queen unto the King of spain at such time as either had their Ambassadors (the Ministers of peace) in each others country, they professing to each other, love and amity. The King of spain doing against the Queen of England, no act whatsoever to the contrary, whereas she chose continued to do against him underhand as many wrongs as she could, besides those great notorious wrongs here mentioned, But when these grew so frequent that the smart unto the King of spain became intolerable, and so manifested unto the world that all other Princes and people took notice thereof, how was it possible that it could stand with the honour of a King, and of such a potent King▪ as is a King of spain, still to continue to put up wrongs as fast as she continued to do them? he was therefore at the last moved to the preparation of his great Armada naval▪ of the year of our Lord 1588. the memory whereof by the incessant clamours of Puritanical enemies of peace▪ hath possessed more place in the heads of the inconsiderate vulgar multitude, than the many great wrongs that enforced it  
But thanks be unto God, our peaceful King james coming to the crown, and well knowing how matters had passed, did to the great happiness of the Realm salve up this sore▪ from further festering, whereunto he found Spayn most ready and willing, and well content to let pas and forget all English injuries, for to give the Spagniaerds their due, certain it is, they are men▪ that are not of unreconcilable & revengeful natures, nor such long entertayners of desire of revenge, as some other nations are said to be, And this appeareth manifestly in this nation more than in others, for notwith▪ standing all fore going hostility between Englishmen and Spagniards, both by sea and land, and enuasions even in Portugal and spain itself, whereof people may remain more sensible then of an unefectuall Armada, yet hath not any English Ambassador or any other of the English nation been by Spagniards in spain barbarously abused, but I am ashamed even for the honour of our nation to repeat how Spanish Ambassadors, and other Spagniardes, have been used in England.  
As for the sundry benefits which the commerce and traffic between England and spain hath brought unto our country, and nation, I doubt not but many of our merchants, seafaring men, and others, will confess, and far more profit and benefit will no doubt ensue the most honourable and great alliance now expected.  
But let us come to our good neighbours and friends the Hollanders, and consider of the grateful goodness and benefits which we reap by them, that thereby we may know how well and wisely we are advised to esteem them for our good Neighbours and friends, and so friendly sticking unto them.  
That we have for above these fifty years taken their parts, is sufficiently known, that the people of England have often times generally smarted by the great pressures and parlamental payments imposed upon them by Queen Elizabeth, to uphold these friends and neighbours withal, is likewise well enough known, as also that great boundance of English blood hath been shed in their quarrel; & an infinite number of Englishmen's lyues lost, whose courage and valour, was worthy of more honour than in their base and dishonourable service could be deserved, and now when all comes to all, they are so far from honest civility, that they will not acknowledge any friendship done them, and therefore can they not entertain any thoughts of obligation, or gratitude, nay they dare plainly tell us; that we are beholding unto them, which is as much to say as that they expect gratitude at our hands.  Tawny scarf. 
In deed I must confess I have heard them affirm that our assisting them was to free ourselves from war in our own country, by means of Spanish enuasion, which may carry some reason.  Red-scarf. 
But what reason was there, why we should have any fear of Spanish enuasion, then only for our taking their parts, against their true and lawful Sovereign the King of spain.  Tawney-scarf. 
I must remain your debtor for the giving you a reason hereof, until I am able to do it.  Red-scarf. 
But I must tell you further, that they do not only deny all gratitude where it is due, and unjustly claim it, where they owe it, but passing further beyond the limits of reason and humanity; they discover themselves to be such monsters, as to bear a very devilish hatred both unto our nation and to our most gracious Sovereign himself. Against our nation their actious declare it, against our Sovereign their villainous tongues.  
Of their most vile and contemptible usage of our nation in the East-Indies I shall not here need to speak, the letters written by our merchants and others from thence do declare it; Their usage of us in Groonland, and the vndooing of our long continued trade in muscovy I will also omit, but we find that they are the very caterpillars and desroyers of our common wealth, by all the ways and means they can devose, for they have not only, by means of their corespondent countrymen, conveyed and drawn by stealth our gold and silver out of the Realm, but they have brought the whole Realm in a general decay of traffic, to the impoverishing and vndooing of thou sands of the inhabitants, as all that deal in clothing in all parts of the Realm will confess.  
As for their villainous speeches against our Sovereign, I could name unto you that Englishman who passing not long since between Rotterdam and the Hage, and hearing some of those varlets speak i'll of his Majesty, which he being an Englishman could not endure, he as it became him, did in good manner reprehend them for it, but straightways a couple of them drew their knyves upon him to have stabbed him, and so had they done, had they not been held & kept back by others there present, we have a proverb, that it is better for some to steal a horse then some to look on. What detriments endure we by Spagniards? where do they bind us hand and foot, and cast us over Indian rocks like dogs? Where undo they our trade? how impoverish they our country? where rail they upon our Sovereign? Are we in our right wits I wonder? when we resolve to go to shed our blood for those that suck our blood? when we fight for those at home, that kill us abroad, me thinks purging with Heleborus were fitter now a days to be taken in use of our countrymen, than the smoak-drinck of drivelling Tobacco.  Tawney-scarf. 
For Gods love le's have no more of this, lest you drive me in a desperate mood to turn Spanish with you, and so discredit myself with my friends that expect me in Holland.  Red-scarf. 
Nay Sir, you should by your so doing, give a good ensample for those friends to follow.  Tawney-scarf. 
I have served some years already in Holland, and have past my word and promise to some friends of mine there to return back unto them again, to the service of the States.  Red-scarf. 
I could then wish that both you and they would resolve to serve them as they ought to be served, such tricks I mean as might revenge some of the villainies and wrongs they have offered us.  Tawney-scarf. 
I guess at your meaning, but it concurres not with my resolution, & you know there is a precept that willeth to do good for evil.  Red-scarf. 
That is well done where evil is thereby amended, but your doing good where you do it, makes evil become worse. But let me now return to speak something of Queen elizabeth's reason to take the Hollanders parts, And first I must tell you that Queen Elizabeth did never take their parts upon compassion of their cause, in regard of any wrong which she knew the King of spain to do them, for she could not but know them to be as very notorious rebels, as ever were any in the world, & therefore was her assistence not given because she loved them, but because she hated the King of spain, and so made use of them as the instruments of her hate.  Tawney-scarf. 
Then must there be cause why she hated the King of spain, and hating him, she had reason to favour and foster those that hated him as well as herself.  Red-scarf. 
I pray Sir, for the instruction of my ignorance, tell me the cause why she hated him.  Tawney-scarf. 
The cause I cannot tell you, but cause I must imagine there was.  Red-scarf. 
You can know no just cause, nor any man else, but you say you must imagine there was a cause, but this must is not forcecible, unless it were a clear case that never any man were causelessly hated, But to tell you the true cause why in deed she ha●ed him, it was no other than for doing her good.  Tawny scarf. 
That me thinks is impossible.  Red scarf. 
Impossible only to good and grateful minds.  
The King of spain in her sister Queen Mary's time, did her no less good than the saving of her life, and experience hath often showed that there are some kind of people that can never abide those that they are very deeply beholding unto, because they think the obligation of gratitude to be a bondage, whereas want of gratitude when it consisteth in the will and not in the power, is monstrous and not human.  Tawny scarf. 
That the king of spain saved her life can hardly be prooveed, for albeit she was imprisoned in her sister's time, yet she was never brought to any public trial, and so there was no saving of her life needful, she not being by law found guilty.  Red-scarf. 
If it had come to that, it had gone hard with her, but the King of spain prevented it, and thereby not only saved her life, but also her honour.  Tawney-scarf. 
But how is this proved?  Red-scarf. 
That there were diverse conspiracies of treason in her sister's time is evident, that she was apprehended and put in prison upon them, is evident, that she was the only hope & object of the conspirators is evident, and that some of them accused her is also evident, for religion her troubles were not, because she made profession of the religion of her sister, and daily heard Mass, Some cause there must be of her apprehension, which must also be some great cause, for no small cause can urge the calling in question, and apprehension of the sister of a Queen regnant, and her next and apparent heir, But I will leave the belief of this to your own leisure & pleasure, when you shall have better thought upon it, or better informed yourself about the matter.  Tawney-scarf. 
I accept of that liberty, but in the mean time I must tell you that I must yet put you to your trumps, about the greatest and most important cause of Queen Elizabeth's & our nations favouring & assisting the Hollanders, which was the cause of religion, they professing with us, one same Gospel.  Red-scarf. 
I doubt whether they profess with us one same Epistle, but one same Gospel I am sure they profess not.  Tawney-scarf. 
I pray what differs their Gospel from ours?  Red-scarf. 
Is there no difference between Protestants and Puritans?  Tawney-scarf. 
Not much.  Red-scarf. 
Why have we then so much contended about so little a difference? why have so many books been written by those of the one and the other side, one against another? why restraints of preaching? why imprisonment of somanie of the brethren? why punishments with death and exile?  Tawney-scarf. 
I grant you, some seditious and vurulie tongued fellows have smarted.  Red-scarf. 
Had it been well done to defend such?  Tawney-scarf. 
No.  Red-scarf. 
More than such our countrymen defend in Holland, for your Gomarists in Holland those I mean that are of the States peculiar religion, are more seditious and vurulie tongued follows then are our English Gomarists, I mean our Puritans, who are just of the same inward illumination of spirit, as are their dearest brethren the Gomarists of Holland, differing only in name, but not in mind or nature. Here at home you seem not willing to defend such vurulie tongued fellows, & yet you go from hence into Holland to fight for them, But these fellows are yet more vurulie tongued then our Puritans, for they go farther than to the making of Petty Popes, and Petty Antichristes of our Bishops, Seeing they will make whosoever it be being a mortal creature, & taking upon him the name or title of Supreme head, or governor of the Church, to be no less than an Idol, and those that give unto him such title, to be no less than Idolaters, Behold what one same Gospel this is with the Gospel of Queen Elizabeth, seeing the Hollanders thereby, do make herself an Idol, and all her clergy and magistrates Idolaters, and I pray consider whether piety or conscience could move her to defend that Gospel and religion abroad, which she persecuted at home, as holding it to be ungodly & seditious, mark but the absurdity hereof. But how had Queen Elizabeth seen herself rewarded if these, good gospellers had in her time so wide opened their budget as to let her see their making making of herself an Idol, & her prelate's who Puritans did but make Petty Popes & petty Antichristes, to be no better than Idolaters.  Tawney-scarf. 
I pray let us alter our discourse, and talc no more of these matters.  Red-scarf. 
That in deed is the best remedy to avoid reply unto a matter, whereunto no reply can be found, But I pray give me leave to end the matter I am about, and then we will fall to what other discourse you wil  Fawney-scarf. 
Me thinks their hath enough already been said to turn a man's appetite from Holland cheese.  Red-scarf. 
But I am very desirous to let you understand the effects of your endeavours, to the end you may the more esteem the value of your deserts.  
And perhaps I may say something that the company here present, hath not as yet heard of, & therefore may out of curisositie receive contentment therein.  Tawney-scarf. 
Me thinks you cannot say worse of the Hollanders than you have already done & therefore, the best may follow, seeing the worst is gone before.  Red-scarf. 
Be it better or be it worse you may please to accept of it as it is, seeing it is the residue remaining behind & belonging to the former matter.  
You must understand that I am not ignorant, that many of our nation who devote themselves, to the service of the Hollanders, think their endeavours directly employed for the maintenance of one same religion with that of England, wherein I have here clearly proved them to be deceived, But now will I go further, and as clearly prove unto you that you do aswell defend Lutheranisme, Anabaptisme, and judaism, as the Holland Religion, that you supposed to have been all one with yours.  
You must consider that the Holland rebels at the beginning of their rebellion to the end they might fortify themselves with all sorts and sects, made open profession that according to the Gospel, all men ought to have their consciences free, and that no man for his religion ought to be called in question or troubled, by means whereof the religions and beliefs in Holland▪ are grown to be infinite, every man making choice to be of what religion he list, and if he list not choose any of the religion's that are already made to his had, he may make one of his own devising, and draw as many unto it as he can, & he may leave it of and make or choose another in steed thereof, or leave all religious and be of none if he please, and boldly make his profession so to be: But the high Powerful Lords the States, notwithstanding they allow all this freedom to the generality, yet they allow free exercise of religion, but to the four sorts afore-named, to wit, to the profession of their own, Geus or Caluinian religion, To that of the Lutherans to that of the Anabaptists, & to that of the Synagogue of the jews, none of all which religion's being allowed in England▪ but being by authority of the States allowed in Holland whosoever employeth himself in defence of that usurped State & Gournment doth consequently defend these four different religious, & aswel all four as any one. He defendeth that Caluinisme, that maketh either Prelate or Prince that hath the title of Supreme headship or Government of the Church, to be an Idol.  
He defendeth Lutheranisme that holdeth the real presence of Christ to be in the Sacrament, even the very same body that was borne of the blessed Virgin Marie, He defendeth Anabaptisme that holdeth it unlawful to Baptism children, and among other heresies teacheth that Christ took no flesh of the Virgin Marie. And he defendeth judaism that denyeth our Saviour Christ to be the true Messias and Saviour of the world, for if by force of arms the state of these States were not defended, these different sects could have in Holland no allowance of free exercise of religion. Now besides these allowed exercising sects, there is the late risen sect of the Pe fectists, which as it seemeth needeth no leave or allowance of exercise, because it is come to such perfection that it is past exercise. These be such as have been great travellers in the word, and continual goers to sermons, and finding that S. Paul speaketh, of some that are always learning, and never attaining unto the knowledge of the truth, they will not be accounted such truants or non proficientes, as still to have need of teaching and instruction, they perceive by their inward illumination of spirit, that they are come to the ripeness of perfection, they have made trial thereof by their examining one another, aswell about the exposition of texts, as of their text-fastnes in citing chapter and verse without mistaking it, as readily, yea and some times more readily than the Preacher himself, whereby they see themselves somuch to have profited, that they have no need to run up and down after sermon-makers, but leave them to the instructing & teaching of the ignorant.  
These now and then meet together among themselves, and consolate one another in the Lord, with singing of Psalms, & discoursing out of the word, according to the perfection & greatness of their knowledge.  
Where are our poor Puritans in respect of these, that all the days of their lyues run unsatisfied with sermon-hearing, behold how these Holland brothers have gotten the start of them, and leave them to remain the perpetual prentices of their sermon-makers.  Tawney-scarf. 
Me thinks you have drawn out the reconiug of my service, which is greater than myself understood it to be.  Red-scarf. 
Greater but not better, for I suppose you understood it not to be so i'll, but being so good as you supposed it, to wit to be employed in defence of the Gospel, it could be but bad, because no good Gospel can allow stealing.  Tawny scarf. 
No more doth that, for they hang thiefs as well in Holland as they do in England.  Red-scarf. 
Thiefs that steal try fles are there hanged by thiefs that steal whole provinces & cities, so as they are not hanged because they steal, but because they steal not fion the King of spain, as though it were honester theft, for a man to rob his master, then to rob another man.  Tawney-scarf. 
You have exceedingly disgraced my service.  Red-scarf. 
Not with intention to disgrace yourself, but to let you see how unjust and wrong a course both you and others take, to the end that knowing it, you & they may relinquish it, and make choice of a course more agreeable to your woorthinesses and valour.  Tawney-scarf. 
But now Sir I must tell you concerning your choice of service, that if we had one of our preachers here, he would tell you that it were in defence of Idolatry.  Red scarf. 
If he did so, and could prove it so, I would ask God forgiveness & leave it, but that is he not able to prove.  Tawney-scarf. 
He would tell you that you woorshiped bread in the Mass, for the body of Christ.  Red-scarf. 
If we so did, that were Idolatry in deed. We do not in any sort intent any worship unto bread, all the devotion worship and honour which there we do, is merely & sincerely intended unto the true body of Christ, the which if it should not be there, then is there no worship or honour at all by us intended, But our warrant for the being thereof there, is so great that it is not derived from the mouth of any mortal man, but even from the very mouth of him that is Christ and God, who cannot possibly deceive us, neither can his power be insufficient to make good his own words, and if it were possible that it could be but bread, yet he having said it was his body and I believing it so to be, his ●ustice & goodness is such that he cannot condemn me of misbelief, himself having been the cause why I so believe, for if he never had said it, I had never believed it. I can do Christ no greater honour then to give credit unto his words, nor no greater dishonour than not to believe them to be veritable.  Tawney-scarf. 
But Sir, our Learned men say that Christ's words at his last supper ought otherwise to be interpreted, & not understood as he there spoke them, but that in saying the bread was his body, he intended to have it understood to be the sign or figure of his body.  Red-scarf. 
They that pretend to prove all their doctrine by scripture, do consequently oblige themselves to show us wherein scripture it is said that Christ meant it for the sign or figure of his body?  
If they have this knowledge by inward illumination, how can they let us know that it is of God?  Tawney-fcarf. 
I do not remembr to have heard any text of Scripture alleged for it. And for inward illuminations I know not what to say.  Red-scarf. 
That Christ meant it for the figure of his body is Calvinistical & Anabaptistical scripture, made without book, but in sacred scripture not to be found, & as for their inward illuminations what can they be other than such dreams as all other sectaries are as full of as they, & can say aswel as they, that they had them from above & perhapsly not altogether neither, for it may be that such fancies came in their heads when they were in their garrets. And yet was the inward illumination of Loy the Slater of Antwerp in lyklyhood more higher, for he (as he said) had his as he sat above on the top of a hows covering it with slate, and it was, that there were no devilles, no hell, nor no resurrection of the dead, and that Christ & his Apostles, mentioning such things, meant otherwise than they spoke, and in this his illumination he was so confident, that the light of burning fire, wherein himself was cosumed, could not put him out of his opinion.  
And seeing you confess not to have heard any text alleged that maketh this Sacrament a figure of Christ his body, nor any proof or reason to oblige belief of imagined illuminations, I will now show you by plain scripture that Christ himself could not mean it to be the figure of his body.  Tawney-scarf. 
If you do that you do much.  Red-scarf. 
I pray you then Sir tell me, was it the figure of Christ his body that was crucified for us on the Cross, or was it his true body?  Tawney-scarf. 
It was without all doubt his true body.  Red-scarf. 
Then must without all doubt his true body be in this Sacrament, seeing Christ said: Take and eat this is my body which shallbe given for you, etc. and that no figure was given for us.  Tawney-scarf. 
There by the Lord, you have posed me in deed.  Red-scarf. 
But I will yet go further with you, sure I am that none of the disciples of Christ that were present at the speaking of those words, do assign us to the seeking out of some other meaning, if this had been requisite themselves had known it best, & could best have been the interpreters, & so without all doubt would have been, if the intention of Christ had been such, for never would they have let all ensuying Christians of the world as well of the Greek as of the Latin Church and all others, have run on in the believing his words as they were spoken, until he should send new teachers into the world to interpreet his meaning fifteen hundreth years after they were spoken, which cannot stand with the providence and goodness of God, But to the contrary that no such interpretation was by God intended, is clearly manifested to all the world, by the confusion which he hath permitted to be among the interpreters, the one interpreting his words one way, the other another way, & so contrary & discordant that no reconciliation can bring them to have one same understanding of Christ his meaning, And therefore remain they to their own shame and confusion in perpetual discord, giving in effect the one the other the lie about the matter, and challenging one another to the weapon of the word, even to the kill and slaying of souls.  
I have adventured here to say thus much notwithstanding I am no divine, because you should understand how far Catholykes are from the most abominable sin of Idolatry, And I must further note unto you the absurdity of this calumny: Idolatry did always consist in the offering up of Sacrifice to Idols, but by the making of Catholics Idolaters they do make the Sacrifice itself, which they offer up, to be an Idol.  Tawney-scarf. 
I perceive you would seem to have been to heard for me if I should give you over so, But I must now demand further of you, whether Protestants or Papists go nearer to the manner of Christ his celebrating this Sacrament, Christ I am sure both instituted and celebrated it at a table, but not at an Altar, as you do, and therefore you vary and differ from Christ, and this being so manifest, it is consequently manifest, that here I have put you down, for this you cannot deny.  Red-scarf. 
I have already told you that I am no divine, and I had not thought to have been by you put to defend matter of religion, but seeing you have again put me to it, and that you think you have put me down about it. If I cannot recover myself I suppose you will triumph and trample upon me. True it is that Christ instituted and celebrated this B. Sacrament upon a table, and not upon an Altar, and Protestants do also celebrate their communion upon a table, wherein they show themselves to teach and control their Patriarche Luther, who celebrated his communion upon an Altar, as all his truest follows in Germany continue to do, as also their anceters the hussites of Bohemia, and yet did both hus and Luther, assure themselves to have penetrated as far into the word as Calvin-protestant, and Anabaptists can assure themselves to do, no Christians in the world using tables in steed of Altars but only they, nor none denying the real presence of Christein that Sacrament but they, and their dependants.  
But now as touching your Protestants celebrating upon a table, to the end you may discover how truly they imitate Christ I must discover unto you a notable trick of fraud of theirs (if I may be so bold as call it so) which is, that they make a show of exactly imitating Christ his manner of doing, by the use of tables & not Altars, to deceive the ignorant multitude, but they deny the verity of Christ his words in the principal matter of faith which unto this Sacrament is belonging, which is no petty piece of cousinage, and most far from the true imitation of Christ, seeing faith and belief importeth more than a show of observing his manner of doing in the only use of a table.  
The cause and reason why Christ celebrated on a table, and not upon an Altar, was because he had supped at the same table, & after he had supped he there celebrated this Sacrament, having purposely referred it for the last and most principal action which he would perform in the presence of his disciples before his passion.  
But if Protestants would profess herein to follow Christ ptecysely, them must they not celebrate their communion upon hows-tables, in Churches, seeing Christ did not so, but upon hows-tables in private houses, & in paved parlours of such houses. It must also be at night & after supper, at which supper they must have eaten a roasted Lamb.  
There must also be neither more nor less than thirteen persons at the table, and these must be all men, for Christ had not one woman present at his celebration.  
There must neither Gospel nor Epistle be red, for when Christ celebrated they were not written, Geneva songs must not there be sung, but the Hymn (if Protestant reformation can produce it) must be repeated, which was said before he and his disciples rose from the table.  
But it now appeareth that Protestants, make a show of imitating Christ only in the use of a hows-table, and omit all the rest, which is but an imitation by piece meal, taking and leaving, what they list, at their own pleasures And I dare confidently avouch, that if any Sermon-maker in England should in his pulpit urge the use of all these omitted things, for the more exact following of Christ, wherein must also be comprysed his girding himself with a towel and his washing his communicants feet, he should be exactly punished for his labour, and thus may you see what is become of your making a hows-table a Churche-table.  Tawney-scarf. 
But say you what you can, you cannot deny but Christ used a table and not an Altar, and therefore we imitate Christ more them you.  Red-scarf. 
You make a show to imitate Christ, and it is but in the only use of a table, which is as it were but a cover to hide your deviall of the verity of the chiefest matter of faith, and why do you not imitate the rest which here I have mentioned as well as only the table, seeing you should better imitate Christ in his whole manner of doing then in a part thereof? or can you show me where you were appointed to imitate him in the use of a hows-table, and not in the rest, nor in the Sacrament of Baptism as well as in this one thing of his supper, Christ was baptised in a river, why baptise you not also in rivers, upon what warrant use you Fontes in Churches more than Altars.  
But now must I go further with you seeing you have put me to it, and tell you of another Communion fraud, and I pray you note it. Your Protestant minister in his administering his communion useth these words, to his communicant. vidz.  
The body of our Lord jesus Christ which was given for thee, preserve thy body and soul into everlasting life, And take and eat this in remembrance that Christ dread sor thee, and feed on him in thy heart by faith with thancks-giving. I demand now of you whether Christ be truly imitated here in or no. Or whether these words here by the Minister spoken, are the same words that Christ himself did speak?  Tawney-scarf. 
Did not Christ say unto his Apostles, Take & eat this in remembrance of me.  Red-scarf. 
No Sir.  Tawney-scarf. 
Will you deny that?  Red-scarf. 
I cannot but deny it, because Christ did not so speak.  Tawney-scarf. 
How spoke he then?  Red-scarf. 
He said unto his Disciples when he had taken bread & blessed it Take and eat this is my body, etc. and having said this, them said he further, Do this in commemoration of me. The Apostles were willed here to do two things, the one was, To eat the Body of Christ, the other was to do this in commemoration of him, by the first precept they did eat the Body of Christ, by the second, in Christ his saying Do this, they had power and authority given them to do afterward as Christ there then did, that is, to take bread to bless it, to pronounce his sacred words over it, thereby to make it become his body, and to administer it unto others as he had administered it unto them, and to do or sacrifice this, in commemoration of him, for if this later precept had not been given the celebration of this Sacrament had not been continued by the Apostles & their successors, but had only been there at that time performed by Christ & so have ceased. Thus may you see what a notable trick of Calvinistical falsity it is, to abuse the people by confounding the words of Christ in saying in steed of his word Take and eat this is my body, And Do this in commemoration of me, to say, Take and eat this in remembrance of me, which Christ said not, but they as if he had so said, do thereby consequently infer that he did say and unsay, or as if his saying, Do this in remembrance of me, which they falsify, and make to be Eat this in remembrance of me, did wholly dysanul and take away the whole effect of his former words which were, Take and eat this it my body, etc. which is to make Christ to have spoken those words frivolously and to no purpose, for if Christ intended not this his blessed & consecrated bread to be his body to what end spoke he those words? what edification could they yield? why might they not aswel or better have been left unspoken? And why might he not more directly and clearly have said at the first. Take and eat this bread in remembrance of me, or as a sign or figure of my body, this had been better fitting for the forming of a Protestant communion, if he had intended it, But Protestants to come now so long after, to make Christ a sayer and an unsayer, to be held unpowrable to perform so much as he said, or to have spoken frivolously and to no purpose, can no way stand with Christian piety, nor confident faith in Christ.  Tawny scarf. 
By the Lord you put me to it still, but I must for all that have about with you concerning another matter. You use to worship Images and by woorshiping them you make Idols of them.  Red-scarf. 
By this reason they that do reverence unto the King's chair of State, do there of make an Idol allo. But you must understand that as the sound of words entering at the ear do revyne memory in the mind, of the thing which by the sound is intended, so is memory no less revived by the sight of the eye, and as at the hearing of the name of jesus, the mind is stirred up to a devout remembrance and reverence of him, so is the mind by the sight of his Image, stirred up in like manner. And here by the way, because it is not impertinent to the purpose, I must allege unto you a late example somewhat concerning this purpose, An English servingman coming over out of England to Antwerp & beholding in the principal street of the city the Image of Christ on the Cross, stood on the sudden, amazed as it were, at the sight thereof, & supposing it (as it should seem) to have been the dead body of some malefactor newly executed (it being painted over with a pale dead colour) demanded of one that was with him, what that man had done that was so nailed up there, but when the other told him it was the Image of Christ, representing unto the view of Christians his crucifying and death on the Cross, for the redemption of the world, he confessed that he had heard it preached that Christ was crucified, but he knew not for all that what crucifying meant, nor did he ever apprehend it as now at the sight of the Image he was moved to do. I make no doubt but this man had heard sermons in England more than enough & yet was he with all his Sermon-hearing such a Christian, as neither knew nor apprehended how Christ had died for his salvation. You may hereby judge of the utility of the School wherein he had had his education, and of the requisytnes of such representations to the view of Christian people, and therefore with no little reason did that great and godly Doctor S. Augustine (as did also other ancient & holy Doctors term the Images of Christ & his saints, the books of lay people where by you may see that these men were no good protestāns, for had they so been, they would have defaced & broken them, & slandered them with the falls imputation of being Idols. Being then as here hath been showed, ordained for representations & memories of Christ and his saints no reverence is done at the sight of them, as merely intended to the Images themselues, but ever intending Christ or his saints or friends which such Images may represent, for when the woman troubled with the flux had a desire to touch the Hemme of Christ his garment it was not because she thought the garment of itself could do her good, but because she thought that virtue by that means might come from Christ unto her, and yet may this deed of this woman seem according to the doctrine of Protestants to be an act of Idolatry, no less than the worship of an Image, which Christ (not being protestantly conceited) approved far otherwise, both by curing her, and comending the greatness of her faith. You must also understand that Sacrifice was by Pagans offered unto Idols, incense was burut upon their Altars, and it was death by pagan laws to refuse to do it, But somuch as the doing of reverence unto an Image among Christians, is not commanded, nor is it taken for scandal to pass by an Image & not to do reverence unto it, but left to every man's own discretion according as his mind is stirred up to some devout cogitation, which by the sight of the Image he may be moved unto.  Tawney-scarf. 
I must confess your words carry sense in them, and that I never heard those reasons before, But there resteth yet one thing, that I must have about with you for, wherein I think you will be put to your trumps to the full.  Red-scarf. 
If I then find not trumps enough wherewith to defend myself, my defect of trumps, will become your triumph.  Tawney-scarf. 
Then Sir, I must demand of you, with what proof of Scripture or show of reason men may be persuaded to believe that such as are mortal men and sinners themselves, can forgive the sins of other men. And strange it is that so many can be made such fools as on their knees unto a priest to utter the very secrets of their souls and consciences, yea and perhaps sometimes to declare such sins unto him, as themselves after they have done them, are ashamed to think on.  Red-scarf. 
I remember to have red, that the jews upon Christ his forgiving of one his sins, said, that none could forgive sins but God only. True in deed it is, that no mortal man of his own authority, can pardon sins, yet having commission from God to do it, why may he not then do it? unless you will say it is not in the power of God to give him power to do it, and that you will limit God to use no ministers under him for the executing of his will, but will have him do all himself. But that it hath pleased our Saviour Christ to give such, power and authority to men, is manifest by his breathing upon his Apostles, and saying, Receive the holy Ghost, whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven, and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained I pray tell me now whether you think the Apostles by this authority given them by Christ, had power to forgive sins or not?  Tawney-scarf. 
Me thinks I must confess they had.  Red scarf. 
Having authority then to forgive sins, do you think they did use it?  Tawney-scarf. 
It may be they did.  Red-scarf. 
We must make it a clear case that they so did, for if they did not, then did Christ give them a frivolous commission, or themselves committed a great fault in neglecting to execute his will, b●t it were impiety to think that either Christ would give a frivolous commission, or that his Disciples would neglect the execution thereof.  Tawney-scarf. 
Admit that Christ gave them such authority, and that they executed it, is it therefore said, that Priests should have it now?  Red-scarf. 
If such power and grace had only been given by Christ to his Apostles, and was not to remain from them unto their successors, than could no body have reaped benefit thereby, but such as lived in the time of the Apostles, and were conversant with them, and so should all other ensuing Christians have remained deprived, of this grace and benefit, but so to think were also impiety.  
When Christ gave his Apostles commission to go over all the world to preach and Baptism, I suppose you will not say that he intended not that their successors should also preach and baptise. If he intended they should, as I make no doubt, you will confess, why should he not also intent the authority of forgiveness of sins unto the successors of the Apostles, to the end that after-coming Christians might aswell enjoy that grace and benefit, as those that lived in the time of the Apostles, or show where the one was called in or prohibited, and the other not.  Tawney-scarf. 
I fear me I shall fail of my expected victory.  Red-scarf. 
I dare warrant you so much, because you may see yourself in so good forwardness of failing already.  Tawney-scarf. 
But this confessing of one's sins to a Priest is such a thing, that I much wonder how people could be brought unto it.  Red-scarf. 
If you well consider thereof, you shall see it a work not to be wrought by man, but by the wonderful concurring power of God, for how were it else possible, that Apostles of the catholic Church should be able to convert somanie Pagan Princes & people to Christianity, and consequently to bring them to that devotion and humility as to kneel down and make confession of their sins to a Priest, whereas we cannot see that ministers do convert any such people unto any their new religions, albeit it be far more easy, and would never trouble them with confession of sins.  
This practice of confession of sins albeit to the ears of new teachers it seemeth harsh, yet was it put in practice, by the holy friend of Christ, S. john Baptist, before Christ gave the authority of pardoning sins unto his Apostles, for the penitent people that resorted unto S. john Baptist, did make confession of their sins, which it is not like they would have done, nor that the scripture would have mentioned it as a deed well done, if S. john himself had not persuaded them unto it, or approved it. The Scripture sayeth they came unto him confessing their sins. It is one thing for a man to confess himself to be a sinner, and another thing to confess his sins, for when he confesseth his sins, he confesseth what sins he hath committed. And the Apostle S. james promulgateth the precept, by saying, Confess your sins one to another, for this Apostle knowing that Christ h●● said to him, and the rest of the Apostles, Whose sins you forgive they are forgiven▪ & caet. Did also know that confession of sins must go before pardon of sins.  
But if we consider it well we shall see it to be a most great grace and happiness imparted by Christ unto men in leaving behind him with his servants and Priests, this commission and privilege, whereby sinners by contrition confession, and satisfaction of and for their sins may put themselves in state of grace, and discharge themselves of so heavy a weight in this world, as would bear down their souls to hell in the next.  Tawney-scarf. 
The case concerning this matter of confession being so clear, as here both by scripture and necessary deduced reasons you have showed, I wonder very much why our Learned men, that pretend all their recours to Scripture, should not see and practise the same.  Red-scarf. 
They cannot but see it, but they scufle it over, the silenceing thereof being unto them, reason of state.  Tawney-scarf. 
How shall I understand that?  Red-scarf. 
You shall understand that the new religion-makers of this time, to draw people from the old, found it fit for them in policy, to make their new religions more easy and pleasing, and therefore, such as follow the doctrine of Calvin taking a way confession, brought in predestination, teaching that God hath determined who he will have saved, and who he will have damned, before ever themselves are borne: and who he will grant or deny his grace unto, and that to such as he will have to be damned albeit they be innocent children sucking at their mother's breasts, and of themselves could never deserve it, yet will he resolvedly deny them his grace so as they shall and must be damned, By which new and most damnable doctrine, confession of sins to such as are of years & able to make it, is as utterly needles, taken away, and so is also in very troth, all devotion and doing of good deeds, for seeing God hath determined before how he will dispose of all men's souls, his disposition must hold whether they themselues do well or il. and to what purpose then were going to confession?  Tawney-scarf. 
In deed I have heard enough of this in Holland, where Doctor Arminius a Protestant himself, did find it to be against the justice, and goodness of God, and many are now grown to think it so also, and to be of his opinion.  Red-scarf. 
There resteth yet one point that I must note unto you concerning this matter of confession, because you said you marveled that men could be made such fools, as to tell their sins unto Priests, but this wonder willbe no wonder when you consider that Priests must no less make confession of their sins then other men, for you must not understand that confession of sins unto a Priest, is an invention brought up by Priests, to be practised upon other men, which they persuade unto it, but a thing ordained and instituted by Christ and his Apostles, & of religious duty and obligation practised and continued in Christ, his catholic Church where there is not any priest that is not as much obliged to make Confession of his sins unto an other Priest, as any other man is, and where there is no, Ecclesiastical person, Prelate, Bishop, or the Pope himself, that heerin is exempted, for even the Pope who is the chief and head of all the catholic Clergy, must fit on his knees and make his confession to a Priest, albeit his own inferior, so as you may see that Priests in this matter of confession have not imposed a burden upon other men which themselves do not bear. The like humility in confession of sins is also seen in Emperor's Kings & Princes, no less then in other people.  Tawney-scarf. 
But is this, so in deed.  Red-scarf. 
It is most undoubtedly true.  Tawney-scarf. 
But what if a Priest should disclose▪ what is uttered unto him inconfession?  Red-scarf. 
If he should so do he should be grivously punished, and suspended from the practice of his priestly function during his whole life, for confessions must not in any case be revealed, and if so be this seal of secrecy, where with the lips of the priest are sealed up, should come to be violated, it were the destruction of the Sacrament of Penance, which the holy Ghost will never permit.  
The Priest well knoweth that confession is made unto God more them to him, and that he as the minister of God, is by hearing of the sin to judge thereof, and accordingly to give the sinner good and ghostly counsel, and to ordain him his Penance.  
To conclude this matter I must tell you, that it is only the devil, who to keep us from being absolved of our sins, putteth all fear and shame before our eyes, when we should go to confess them, but sequestreth it from our sight when we go about to commit them.  Tawney-scarf. 
You have of this matter said somuch that you have made me see that I still have the worst end of the staff, and therefore to despair of the victory, and to see my reasons not sufficient enough (in regard of yours) to make you turn Protestant.  Red-scarf. 
If you could bring me so far as so much to dislike my religion as to be willing to relinquish it, it doth not consequently follow that I should turn protestant, but I should then stand in a great labrinth to consider which of all the new religions that this day by pretence of Scripture will needs be the true religion, I might make choice of, for the undoubted true religion in deed, you must understand I have been a travailer & have had more trial and experience of these pretenders in the world abroad, than our puritan Idiots, that only hear and heed what their homebred minister tells them, when he will make it seem as though the catholic religion had no more contradictors but those that are of his religion, as if there were not diverse others of different religions from that which he holdeth (and of much like newness) that do as earnestly contradict the catholic religion & as much pretend to have their only recours to scripture, as possibly he can do, & will not by Scripture be put down by such as he is, albeitthey should with Bibles beat out their brains.  
All these, how different soever from ours, & from one another, do as earnestly pretend restauration of the ancient religion of the Apostles time, as they for their lyues can do, In which pretence both of theirs and of ours, I have so throughly penetrated, that I have fully discerned the Idleness thereof, for no one of them all can carry the matter away with any proofs or reasons peculiar to itself, which none of the rest cannot make his use of aswell as it.  
That there were in the primitive Church somanie different religions as now pretend to restore the same, who can believe? That any one is the restorer thereof, how shall it be known which it is? seeing none can any way make himself appear to be the same before others, If he will say that he will prove it by the word of God, how can he make his proof appear to others, to be more clear than their lyk proofs to him?  
When I consider how our Puritans do here in England ween themselves to be the only Scripture fellows of the world, I cannot but laugh with myself to imagine how they would be taken down with other scripture lads that I have met withal in my travails in Germany among Arrians, Trinitists, Lutherans, Moravian-anabaptists, Holland-Anabaptists, and others of pettier sects, that at the word, would make but poor snakes of them. I heard a Lutheran preacher at Augusta tell his auditory that to deal with a Caluinist (intending our Protestant's or Puritans) the best way was to take God's word and grease him well with that about the snout, telling him still that Christ at his last supper, said, Take and eat this is my body, etc. Not suffering him by any of his Calvinistical shifts, to slip from these words, so may we conclude quoth he, that either the Caluinist must make Christ a liar, or be a liar himself.  
At Francford I heard an Anabaptist demand of a Caluinist, what Scripture he had for the Christening of children, the Caluinist would have gone about to deduce it by consequence, away with your consequenting quoth the Anabaptist, for if consequences may be admitted, I will hear the Papists speak before you, you are the very cooseners of the world, you brag and boast of profession of Scripture, and when you are put to it then forsooth you are far enough to seek, and not in this matter only of Christening of Children, but of more matters besides, If I would put you to it, and did not spare you for pity, because you are turned without book already.  
I could allege unto you sundry examples of the resoluteness of hussites, Lutherans, Anabaptists▪ and others in their several religions, which is such that none of our sermon-makers here in England can any whit go beyond them, I have heard somanie of their different pulpit cries, of the light of the Gospel, of the pure word of God, of inward illumination of spirit, of sealing it with their blood and such like pretensions, general to all, & as duly claimed by the one sort as by the other, that good experience hath taught me to know such pretensions here at home to be as idle fopperies as I have found them in other countries abroad, serving only to lead away fools, that see no further than the length of their noses.  
If such as here do keep the greatest coil in their pulpit-crying of their light of the Gospel, and pure word of God (as though without all contradiction they were the only men living under the cope of heaven that had it) would but dare to appear among these other several sorts of professors of other lights of the Gospel, and other purity of the word, and be urged if they will be believed before all the world besides, to set down to the manifest view of all men, such proofs and reasons, for their assuredness of having the truth, as all the rest shall not be able in the very like manner to produce for theirs.  
Good Lord how would then our English pulpit boasters be puzzled, and what poverty would then their glorious Gospel be brought unto? trust me there could nothing in this case be better fitting for them than to transport themselves back again into invisibillitie (if they have reserved the f●il) for thereby might they save themselves from becoming (by being pointed at) the objects of the sport of all the others.  
And thus much (with desire of pardon) dare I further avouch, that I do not know, any foreign country upon earth, wherein in any sort the name of Christianity is professed, where the religion of England in the judgement of the Learned of any of these whatsoever, is fully and wholly allowed for good, & not in one principal point or other, gainsayed & contradicted.  
And whereas many here in England do stand very much upon the resoluteness of their Foxian, Martyrs, as though their sufferance for their Calvinistical cause were a marvellous, great argument of the goodness thereof, but which of the other new pretenders cannot produce their Martyrs also? Husytes and Lutherans are not without store of them, and both thinking themselves to be much wronged by M. Fox. The Hussites in being robbed by him of their Patriarche john hus, and the Lutherans by being robbed by him in like sort, of their much esteemed martyr, friar Barnes.  
As for the Anabaptists their number far exceedeth those of M. Fox, and perhaps ten for one. They that list to make the calculation may compare those which they have set down in their book of Martyrs, entitled, The Sacrifice of the Lord, with the number of those that are in M. Fox his Acts and monuments.  
I will now cease to be further tedious unto you, but by this which I have related concerning religion, as also concerning your resolution in your intended service, I leave you to judge which of both our courses is best founded.  Tawney-scarf. 
I protest unto you, you have so intoxicated my brain, that you have almost brought me to stand staggering between hawk, and buzzard.  Red-scarf. 
If you will stand sure from falling, lean unto the better and the stronger side.  Tawney-scarf. 
I will think on the matter.  Red-scarf. 
Forget not then to consider I pray you, even for your own honour and the honour of our nation, that Englishmen still continuing to serve the Hollanders, notwithstanding all the villainous wrongs they have done them, do prejudice their own esteem, among other nations, who may imagine them to be so basely blinded or bewitched by mistaken Holland Gospel, that they cannot see themselves made by the Hollanders in a manner as their slaves, for slaves receive blows and serve them that beat them, and even so do our countrymen receive blows at the hands of the Hollanders, and yet serve them. The difference is, that slaves are beaten by their Masters at home, & Englishmen by Hollanders abroad, while their inconsiderate countrymen serve them at home, where if they served them right, they might right some of the wrongs which abroad they do them. And I cannot enough wonder at the sencelessnes of such giddy pated prentices of London as durst so barbarously abuse, an Ambassador of a King of spain, themselves not knowing any cause why, & yet when by letters from the East Indies it was by our own Merchants signified how most barbarously and villainously, the Hollanders had abused them, these considerate youths were not a whit moved to anger against M. Caroon, who carrieth the name of Ambassador for the Holland States, but could show themselves so soft minded, as to let him pass quietly in the streets of London in his Coach, and do him reverence, as if they had thanked him for it. But beginning now to fear that I may have been to tedious unto you and to this good compagnie, I will with desire to be pardoned for my freeness of speech, thank you all for your patience, & here make an end of this business.  Tawney-scarf. 
And I thank you also for yours.  
hereupon according to the promise before made, this Toung-combat, civilly ceased, and soon upon it, the Graucsend journey also, and every man disposed himself, as his affairs, & further journey lay.  
FINIS.  
L. B. S. T. L.