THE PICTURE OF a Papist: OR, A Relation of the damnable heresies, detestable qualities, and diabolical practices of sundry heretics in former ages, and of the papists in this age. Where in is plainly showed, that there is scarce any heresy which the ancient Church knew, and withal condemned to the pit of hell, which the Romish Church hath not raked up again, and propounded to the world with new Varnish and fresh Colours. Together with a discourse of the late treason, and of the late execution of some of the Traitors: wherein is showed the heinousness of their crime, and the lawfulness of their punishment. Written to stop the mouths of those, that complain of rigour, and scandalise the state of cruelty, in their just severity. Whereunto is annexed a certain treatise, entitled Pagano-Papismus: wherein is proved by irrefragable demonstrations, that Papisme is flat Paganism: and that the Papists do resemble the very pagan, in above sevenscore several things. At London Printed for Nathaniel Fosbrooke, and are to be sold at his shop, at the west end of Paul's. 1606. To the Right Honourable, right virtuous, and most truly religions Earl, Robert, Earl of Salisbury: principal Secretary to the King's Majesty, Master of the Wards and Lineries, one of his highness most honourable pri●●e Counsa●le, and Chancellor of the famous University of Cambridge. IT is a notable policy, Right Honourable, yea the very cunningest stratagem the devil hath, to a transform himself into an Angel of light, he being a fiend of darkness. And the same is, and ever hath been the policy of his ministers and instruments in all ages. For, the idolatrous jews, thereby to inveigle simple souls, shrouded themselves under the glorious titles of the b Children of Abraham, the c Scholars of Moses, d the temple of the Lord, the Temple of the Lord. And the false Apostles in Saint Paul's time, e transformed themselves into the Apostles of Christ, as though they were the Ministers of righteousness. As for the false teachers in the times next after the Apostles, they did all set a fair gloss upon a foul matter, and bore the world in hand, that the f Scriptures, the g Church, and all the Orthodox h Ego babe● testimonia sanctorum patrum ego defendo patrum dogmata, etc.▪ Dioscorus in Concil. Chalced: Act. 1. Fathers thereof, were on their side. And this their dealing may fitly be paralleled by the practice of popish teachers at this day, in taking unto themselves the title of the Catholic church, and in making great brags, that their i Catholics in their supplication to the king's majesty. religion was believed by all Primitive Pastors, established by all ecumenical Counsels, upheld by all ancient Doctors, and agreeable to the sacred text of God's word and Gospel. And by this very practice have the Jesuits and seminaries Priests (who compass sea and land, to make many Proselytes) ensnared many a silly soul in this land: and no marvel, seeing that these are the times of which Christ foretold, that there should k Math, 24 24. arise false Christ's, and false Prophets, and should show great signs and wonders, so that if it were possible, they should deceive the very elect: and of which Saint Paul prophesied, that Antichrist should come l 2. Thes▪ 2. 9▪ 10. through the efficacy of Satan, with all power, and signs, and lying wonders, and in all deceiveableness of unrighteousness, among them that perish. Nay, they have not not only set the mark of that Antichristian beast in their foreheads, and made them the children of error, as deeply as themselves: but they have also sown the Cursed seeds of sedition in their hearts, and do seek to make them as very Machiavelians, or rather as matchless villains, as themselves, With what cords of Papisme, and with what cart-ropes of machiavelisme, they draw men to this their faith and faction (I should say, to their faith which is faction), I have showed at large, in these two treatises following: which I have thought good to publish for no other purpose, but only (if the will of God so be) to estrange people's minds from them▪ to alienate their affections, and to bring them quite out of love of their doctrine, and out of liking of their persons. And I doubt not but these my labours will greatly move them thereunto, the rather, if it will please your Honour to vouchsafe them your countenance: to whose Patronage I here commend them both, as saint Luke did both his Histories to the most Noble Theophilus: desiring hereby to testify my humble duty unto your Honour, and my thankfulness to God for reserving your Honour (who hath religiously vowed nec deo, nec patri, nec patri patriae unquam deesse) unto these times, wherein so many bear a foreign and unnatural conceit, touching the god we serve, the Prince we obey, & the Country we live in: yea, wherein Satan stretcheth all the strings of his wit, reneweth all his heresies, reviveth all his policies, & practices all his treacheries. And so fearing to hinder the course of your serious cogitations & actions, I humbly take my leave; beseeching the lord long to preserve your Honour, that the commonwealth for many years may enjoy such a counsellor, our University so Honourable a Chancellor, and poor Scholars (whom poverty constraineth to leave the University, and to wander up and down, and offer their service, and serve for ten shekels of silver by the year, and a suit of apparel, and meat and drink, as the poor Levite Judg. 17. 10, did in Michah's house) so favourable a Maecenas. Your Honour's most humbly devoted, OLIVER ORMEROD. To all favourites of the Romish faith and faction, peace and truth. CEsar Baronius in the front of his book of annal, placeth the picture of the Romish Church in for me of a woman, with an he any wooden Cross on her shoulders and the triple Crown upon her left hand with two great keys hanging down under it, and on the one side setting these words vicit haereses and on the other, subegit gentes▪ That this your Romish Cardinal wanteth the oil of verity, to make his colours clèave and endure, I hope to make it more than manifest in these two treatises following, wherein his picture of the Romish Church is defaced, and the true picture thereof portrayed. These my labours I commend to the blessing of the Almighty, ● 〈◊〉 16. 14. and you to his gracious protection, beseeching him to open your hearts, as he opened the heart of Lydia: that you may attend unto the things which are herein delivered. For unless it please the Lord to make you attentive, I shall have b Master Fue●a●d Digby in his diswasive from taking away the livings & goods of the church, pag. 3. just cause to say to this my little book, as the Father of an ungracious child (alluding to the speech of the exiled poet) said to a learned book of his: Parue nec invideo: my little book I do not envy thee, nay, rather I pity thine estate, sith thou art now to pass into the world, whose icy ways are opposite to God, and cravest attentive ears of those, whose fowl deformities thou openly displaiest. c ●. 〈◊〉 13 11. Finally brethren, far ye well, be perfect, d ● Per. 2. 17. fear God; honour the King: e ●. C●r. 13, 11, be of one mind; live in peace, & the god of love and peace shall be wirh you. To the gentle Readers, and to the biting Censurers. PLutarch mentioneth a certain painter, who when he had made a goose & a cock both alike, was feign to writ over their heads for distinction sake▪ this is a goose, this is a cock. I have now drawn (courteous Readers) the picture of a Puritan and of a Papist, and have set over their heads with Plutarches painter, this is a goose, this is a cock: this is a Puritan, this is a papist. And since I drew the former, (I speak to you biting Censurers) I have found that Poetical proverb most true pronounced by that Ancient Alceus: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, under every stone there lieth a serpent: for there are certain serpentine and venomous tongued Puritans, that have bruited abroad in london, that the Author hereof, was an arrant papist, & either one of the late traitors, or a special favourer of their Religion. So that I have good cause to say of b Master Perkins in his treatise of applying God's word to the conscience page ●lt, them as a zealous preacher said of them long since; The poison of Asps is under their lips. But why art thou so vexed O my soul? and why art thou so disquieted within me? They have called the master of the house Belzebub, much more those of the household▪ they have called our reverend Fathers Petti-popes', and (as Elias said in an c As I have showed in my Picture of a Puritan, other case) am I better than my fathers? Nay the Bishop of our souls Christ jesus, when he was upon the earth, was slandered of the Scribes, and Pharisees to be a drunkard and a glutton, a friend to publicans and sinners: & thinkest thou to live upon the earth, and that among the like slanderers, and live without the like slanders? Thou art but the son of man, but thou oughtest to say with the son of God, d john 18, 37. For this cause am I borne, a●d for this cause came I in to the world, that I might bear witness unto the truth. Thou art ordained (as the Apostle saith) to approve thyself in all kind of patience: by honour and dishonour, by good report and ill report, as a deceiver, & yet behold thou art true, & as a treacherous Papist, & yet behold, thou art a loyal Protestant To Conclude, say to those Gnat-strainers & Camel-swallowers, If one name will not make an idle book sell, the Stacioners will be Godfathers to it, and give it a new name, and father it on an other man. as saint Paul said to the like biting Censurers, and sharp-toothed Carpers in his time: I pass very little, to be judged of you, or of man's judgement. And thus I leave you, beseeching you to suspend your judgements of me, until you see the True picture of a Protestant which I am now drawing and shadowing with orient colours, wherein I purpose to make known to the world, in what religion I have hitherto lived, and wherein I will die, though the world should turn upside down, Nulladies sive linea. A Postscript. There is a certain book lately published, entitled, the double PP, * alias, the picture of a jesuite, altas the picture of a traitorous jesuit: which some in london have reported to be of my drawing: But be it known unto you, that I am so far from being the Author of that frivolous Pamphlet, as that I hold both it, and another that was thrown abroad upon the stage at the late execution of the traitors, together with many other e Among the rest there is one book lately printed against the Papists, wherein the author ●latly denieth the Epistle of Saint james to be Canonical scripture. It is a very un fit thing, that histrionical jesters and stage players should be suff●ed to writ books of such matters and in deed a great disgrace to our Religion. toys lately printed against the Papists, as fit for the fire as the conjuring books in the 19 of the Acts, verse, 19, And were I worthy to give mine advise to those that are in authority, those that did publish any such f 2. Cor 68 2 Cor 43, Fantastical books hereafter, as the double PP is, should have for their pains, either a single Greek Π, or at the lest, nigrum theta. The Picture of a Papist: OR A Relation of the damnable heresies, detestable qualities, and diabolical practices of sundry heretics in former ages, and of the Papists in this age: compiled in form of a Dialogue, or conference between a Minister and a Recusant. The first Dialogue. Wherein is proved, that the Papists are Staurolatrians, or Chazinzarij. The Recusant. We caput Christs gratum, a Oratio ad quisque plegas jesu Christi in come. suffrag. sol. 137. duris spinis coronatum: nos conserua, ne The Minister. A How now neighbour, have I found you crouching to a Crucifix? The Recusant. Sir, what make you here? The Minister. Sir, I am to confer with you. The Recusant. To confer with me? What authority have you? The Minister. I have authority sufficient: for it was decreed in the late Synod holden at London, that b Synod. Lond●nens. cau. 66. every Minister being a Preacher, and having any Popish Recusant or Recusants in his Parish, and thought fit ●y the Bishop of the Diocese shall labour with them diligently from time to time, thereby to reclaim them from their errors. The Recusant. Well, let me make an end of my prayers, and then I will come and confer with you. The Minister. No neighbour, God loveth alacrity in his work; excuses he much disliketh. The delay that Elizeus made, let me go kiss my father; and those shifts in the Gospel, let me go bury my father, or take leave of my friends, are not admitted in the Lord's business: no more is this of yours, let me make an end of my prayers. The Recusant. Yes, I pray you give me leave. The Minister. I pray you entreat me not: for I dare not give you leave to commit idolatry. The Recusant. Idolatry? do you charge me with idolatry? The Minister. It is an old saying, and I see that it is true, not only in corporal whoredom, but inspirituall c Prou. 30. 20 an adulterous woman eateth; and after wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have not committed iniquity. With what face can you deny yourself to be an idolater? have I not taken you in ipso facto? The Recusant. You have taken me indeed praying before a crucifix; but I hope you accounted not that Idolatry. The Minister. Yes, Saint Ambrose telleth you, that to worship the Crucifix is gross idolatry: and before him d Ambros. de obitu Theodo●●. Arnobius made this answer in the behalf of all true Christians: e Arnob. adverse Gentes, lib. 8. Cruces nec colimus nec optamus: vos plane quiligneos deos consecratis, cruces ligneas, ut deorum vestrorum parts, forsitan adoratis: We neither worship crosses, nor wish for them, you that consecrated wooden Gods, ● Chaz●s crux est NicephorM. lib, 18. cap. 54. the happily adore wooden Crosses, as parts of your Gods. In a word, you may as justly be termed * Chazinzarij & Staurolatrae, as the Armenij▪ for you worship the f Euthymius in Panoplia, et Nicephor, H●s●●ib, 18 cap, 54, Cross of Christ as well as they. The Recusant. Not we worship not the Cross itself, but Christ h Alexand. de Hales, part 3, quaest, 30 art, v●t, that was crucified on the Cross. The Minister. i Greg, de, Valentia, tom, 3, de ●d● lolat. punct, 6, ᵏ B●liarm. de i mag. lib, 2. ca 23 Yes, g Them. Aquin, part 3. quest, 25 art. 4. Thomas Aquinas, Alexander de Hales, Gregory de Valentia, and the rest of your chiefest doctors do teach, that Crucifixes are to be worshipped with the very same worship, wherewith Christ himself is to be worshipped. The Recusant. I Answer with Cardinal Bellarmine, that albeit Crucifixes are to be worshipped with the same worship; yet is it with respect to Christ; and that the worship passeth by the image to him. The Minister. This shift will not serve your turn; for to co-adore the crucifix with CHRIST, is palpable Idolatry, as may be proved by the determination of the Council of Ephe●u●. The Recusant. How I pray you? The Minister. Nestorius' conceived the manhood of Christ to be a distinct person from the word, or son of GOD: and withal he framed a coadoration whereby this manhood was to be adored with the word. Now the Counsel of Ephesus condemned this coadoration: in like sort may we condemn your coadoration of the crucifix with Christ. But to leave this particular, why did you bow your knees, and lift up your eyes, and hands to the crucifix? The Recusant. Why may I not? The Minister. Why? because God requireth this outward honour of eyes, hands and knees as due to him alone, l Isay, 45. 2● I have sworn (saith he) by myself: the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness: and shall not return, that every knee shall bow unto me. m Ephes, 3, 14, For this cause, (saith n Lamen, 3, 48. Paul) I bow my knees unto the father of our Lord jesus Christ. Let ut lift up our hearts with our hands (saith the Prophet Hieremie) to God in the heavens. And o Psal. 123, ●. I (saith the Psalmist) lift up mine eyes to thee, that dwellest in the heavens▪ The Recusant. ● If this honour of eyes, hands, and knees, be due to God alone, then why do you give it to your parents & Magistrates? The Minister. God alloweth parents and Magistrates that present his person in blessing and judging, to have some part of his external honour: and in that respect do we lift up our hands to them, and bow our knees before them. But as for Images, God himself hath made a flat prohibition, that they shall have no part of his honour, p Exod, 20, 5. Thou shalt not (saith he) bow down to them. But I pray you Sir, what is the principal cause that moveth you, to keep this crucifix in your house? The Recusant. Truly to pu● me in remembrance of Christ's bitter passion forr ʸ sins; and to stir up myself to sorrow, compassion and tears, by considering the pitiful handling of Christ upon the Cross. The Minister. I cannot but judge you to be not only very dull, but wicked, that cannot remember Christ crucified, except you have a crucifix before your eyes, to kindle your appetite, and to move your heart with such a carnal commiseration and pity, as we often find in ourselves, when we see deserved torments inflicted upon malefactors. Let me therefore entreat you, to content yourself with such means as God himself hath commended unto you▪ thereby daily to renew the memory of your redemption; and not to devise such yourself, as serve only to provoke you to a natural and human affection. The Recusant. What means hath God commanded unto us, to put us in mind of the passions of Christ. The Minister: Truly, the true preaching of the word of God, & the right administration of the Sacraments. The Recusant. Is there any representation of Christ's passion in these two? The Minister. Yes, there is as lively a representation of the passion of Christ, in the preaching of the word and in the administration of the Lords Supper, as if Christ were yet in crucifying, and as though his precious blood were now distilling from his hands, and sides. This appeareth by the very words of the Apostle Saint Paul, who taxeth the Galathians, saying: q Gal, 3. O foolish Galathians who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth: to whom jesus Christ before was described in your sight, and among you crucrified, that is, to whom was preached the doctrine of salvation by Christ, in as lively and evident manner, as if Christ had been painted with orient colours before your eyes, and crucified, in, or among you. As for the administration of the Lords Supper, the same Apostle telleth you, that, r Cor, two, 23 24. 25 the Lord jesus in the night that he was betrayed, took bread: and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, take eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do ye in remembrance of me. He said not, keep y● Crucifixes in your houses in remembrance of me. The Recusant. Although he said not so; yet I see no reason, but that we may as lawfully paint Christ in our houses with colours, as you paint him with words in Sermons, and in the administration of the Lords Supper: The Minister. Sir, there is not the like reason: for the Lord alloweth the one, namely the description of Christ in speech, and in the administration of the Lords Supper. But the other, to wit, the carving or painting of his image in your houses, and that for a religious use▪ he utterly condemneth in the twenty of Exodus, saying: s Exod, 20. 4. Thou shall make thee no graven Image, neither any similitude of things that are in heaven above, neither that are in the earth beneath, nor that are in the waters under the earth. But I marvel, that you stand thus in defence of Images, seeing that all the ancient fathers, whom you pretend to be on your side, do in express words condemn the use of them: & are so far from teaching you with your late writers, that images are laymens books, as that they tell you with the t Haba. 2, 18 Prophet HABACUK, that they are teachers of lies. The Recusant. Do the ancient fathers condemn the use of Images? Which of them I pray you? The Minister. Clemens Alexandrinus speaking of his time, saith this v Clemens, Alexand. orat, exh●●tat, ad Gentes, et in 6, Strom. not is non est ●nago sensilis de materia sensili, sed quae percipit●r intelligentia▪ etc. With us there is no Image that is material, and seen with eyes, but only such as is perceived by the understanding and inwardman, because that God, who is the only true God, is apprehended by the understanding and inward man, and not by the outward senses. And of the same mind is the other Clement, as appeareth by these his words x Clemens epis● Rom, de Ia●ob fratre Dom, lib. 5 run not unto these Images of wood and stone, to honour pictures and images, that have no soul. Again, this is nothing else but the suggestion of the old serpent, who maketh you believe, that you are very devout, when you honour the insensible things. Yea, he crieth out saying; What manner of impiety, and how great ingratitude is it to receive the benefit from God, and to give thanks unto sticks and stones. Tertullian likewise saith, that y Tertul. de cor. mil. it is great indignity, that the Image of the living God, should be translated into the Image of an Idol, or of a thing that is dead. And answering an usual objection, he saith: z Tertul. de idaean It is no hurt that the same God by his law forbade a similitude, to be made, and by an extraordinary precept commanded the similitude of the brazen serpent to be set up. If thou wilt obey God, thou hast his law, make thee no similitude. If thou look to the precept that was given after for making a similitude, then see thou imitate Moses▪ make no image against the law, unless God bid thee as he bad Moses. And Arnobius pointing at the true image of God saith thus, a Arnob, contra 〈◊〉, 8 Quam imaginemdeo faciomus, cu●as im●go, si recte iu●ic●mus▪ homo est: what image shall I ma●e to God, whose image, if we judge aright, man himself is Lactantius, also affirmeth, that there is no religion, where Images are worshipped. b Lactant, lib, 2▪ Instit. 〈◊〉 c. 18, Non est dubium (saith he) qum religio nulla sit, ubicunque simulachrum est. With him agreeth S, Austen, saying: c Aug, ●e●onsen●u Emang. lib▪ 1, c. 10 errare meruerunt qui Christum & Apostolos eius non in sanctis e●dici●us, sed p●ctis parietibus quaesierunt. They are worthy to be deceived that seek Christ and his Apostles, not in the holy Scriptures, d Or●g co●tra Cells, lib. 7, but inpainted walls. And not to stand any longer upon this particular, * 〈◊〉, lib, 1, cap, 24. Irenaeus, Origen, e Athanas. contra Gent, Athanasius, f Epiphan. ad 1. ban. Hierosol. Epiph●nius, g Chrysost, in Gen, cap, 31, homil. ● 7. Chrysostome, h 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉, 3 Hierom: and the rest of the ancient fathers do fully subscribe to the same truth. Yea, the whole Counsel of Eliberis detested painted and carved images, and banished them quite out of their Churches, as idols. i Council, Elibert, ca●, 36. Placuit (say they) picturas in ecclesius esse non debere, ne quod colitur aut adoratur, in parietibus depingatur. We have decreed that pictures aught not to be in Churches, lest that which is worshipped or adored, ●e painted on walls, The Recusant. Although the Council of Eleb●ris did banish Images out of their Churches, and would not suffer them to be adored: yet the second Council of Nice did authorize both the having of them, and the adoring of them. The Minister. What tell you me of the second Council of Nice? that Council was not held till almost eight hundredth years after Christ. Secondly, I answer you that their authorizement of images wanted universality: for there was shortly after a Synod of the Bishops of France, Italy and Germany (in which Charles the great, and the Legates of the Bishop of Rome were present) that condemned the second Council of Nice, as heretical. The Recusant. How prove you that? The Minister. I prove it by the testimony of Huicmarus Archbishop of Rheims who lived when these things were fresh in memory. His testimony is this. k Huicmarus Rhemens. c●nt● Hui●mar. jan da●ensi▪ episc. cap 20 The seventh general Counsel so called by the Grecians (indeed a wicked Counsel) touching Images, which some would have to be broken in pieces, and some to be worshipped, was kept not long before my time, by a number of Bishops gathered together at Nice, and sent to Rome, which also the Bishop of Rome directed into France. Wherefore in the reign of Charles the great (and the see Apostolic willing it so to be) a general Council was kept in Germany, by the convocation of the said Emperor, and there by the rule of the scripture, and doctrine of the fathers, the false Council of the Grecians was confuted, and utterly retected: of the confutation whereof was a good big book sent to Rome by certain Bishops from Charles, which in my young years I read in the Palace. Thus you see, how that Images were not established in Churches in these west parts of the World, till almost eight hundredth years after Christ. The Recusant. Well, be it granted, that other images were not established in churches before that time: yet it seemeth by the testimonies of l Lactant cari●, de passione. Lactantius, m M●●●t ●●●l, in Oct●uio. Minutius Faelix n Tertul, lib, 3. ●●ntr. Martion. Tertullian, and o Chrysost. ●o●●il. 55. i●. Math. Chrysostome, that Crucifixes were used in the times next the Apostles. The Minister: Not, they were not publicly received in the Church till above seven hundred years after Christ: for it was not decreed till about that time, that the image of Christ should be set up, p Synod Trullens. ●an. 82, proveteri agno, (that is) in the Room of Agnus Dei. As for the ancient fathers that you allege to prove the contrary; they speak not of the form Crucifix, but of the real Crucifix, thatis, of Christ himself crucified upon his own proper Cross. To make an end now of this days conference, jexhort you, as Saint Paul did his auditors at Lystra, to turn, q Act. 14. 15, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, from these vain, foolish and paltry Idols. And to break this your Crucifix in pieces, and the rest of your Images. The Recusant. Break my Crucifix in pieces? marry God forbidden. The Minister. If you will not, I william. The Recusant. Will you? The Minister. Yes, see here. The Recusant. What reason is there, that you should thus break my Crucifix in pieces? The Minister. Truly, great reasons: for it is God's commandment, that we should r Exod, 34. 13. overthrow the altars of idolaters and break, their images in pieces, and cut down their groves: We have also the examples of sundry godly men, as fit patterns for our imitation herein. To begin with Moses, s Exod. 32 20, He took the Calse which the Israelites had made, and burned it in the sire, and ground it unto powder, and strewed it upon the water, and made the children of Israil drink of it. Hezekiah likewise t 2, reg. 13. 4. took away the high places, and broke the images and cut down the groves, and broke in pieces the brazen serpent that Moses had made, and called it Neh●shtan that is, a piece of brasle. Lo here you see, that though the brazen Serpent was an ordinance of God a figure of Christ, and a monument of the Israelites deliverance from fiery Serpents in the Wilderness, yet when it was abused to idolatry, this good King broke it in pieces, and (not thinking it worthy to be called a Serpent) called it (by contempt) Nehushtan, a piece of brass. The Recusant. I see that Kings may lawfully break images in pieces: but it followeth not, that you may therefore lawfully do the same. The Minister. Yea but Epiphanius also, though he was no King; yet finding a painted cloth in the Church of Anabletha by jerusalem, he did v Epiphan. epist an johan. Hierosolymit. (as he himself reporteth) tear it in pieces, and pronounced that painted imagery, notwithstanding it represented Christ or one of the Saints, to be quite contrary to the sacred scriptures. And thus for this time I leave you; trusting that you will not impute that to me as a vice, which in Epiphanius is accounted as a virtue. The Recusant I cannot but impute thi● unto you as a vice; because it appeareth hereby, that you are an enemy to the Cross of Christ, and are ashamed thereof. The Minister. No sir, x August. de verbu Apost. ●erm, 8 Non pudet nos crucifixi; sed in part ubi signum pudoris cst, signum crucis eins habemus. We are not ashamed of him that was crucified; but in that part where the sign of shame is, have we the sign of the Cross. And for mine own part, y Aug, in Psa. 141, Vsque adeo de cruce non erubesco, ut non in occulto loco habeam crucem Christi, sed in front portem: I am so little ashamed of the Cross of Christ, as that I bear it, not in a secret place, but in my forehead. Yea, I am so far from playing either the * Insultet P●ga ●us 〈◊〉 Christ, videan ego in front ●as r●gum ciucens Christi, Aug. in Psalm, 141. Pagan or Puritan, as that when I Baptize any, z Iu●●●us Martyral Orth●●oxos, a● quest, 118 a Bu●er. Dextramanu in nomine Christi eos consigno. With my right and ●●gne then, in the ●ame of Christ. a Signum hoc nontam quo● est vsu● inecclesits anti quissimi, quam quod est adm●●um simplex, & praese 'tis admonitionis crucis Christi, adhiheri neciu decens necinuttle existimo si adhibeatur modo pure intellectum & religiose excipiatur, nulla superstitione adiuncta, etc. And I hold it neither unseemly, nor unprofitable, that the sign of the Cross should be used in Baptism, not so much, because it is of that long time and continuance in the Church, as that it is of so good use, and tendeth to such good end, as being most simple and of present admonition, as putting us in mind of the Cross of Christ, so it be rightly understood and religiously entertained, wihout any addition of superstition, The second Dialogue. Wherein is plainly showed, that the Papists do give that honour to the Saints which is due to God alone: and that a great part of their Popish Litany, was composed by the heretic Gnapheus and his fellows. The Recusant. SAncta Maria. Ora pro nobis 〈◊〉 Rom, 〈…〉 8● 86. Sancta dei Genitrix. Ora. Sancta Virgo Virginum. Ora. Sancte Michael. Ora. Sancte Gabriel. Ora. Sancte Raphael Ora Omnes sancti angeli et Archangeli Dei, Orate pro nobis Omnes sancti beatorum spirituum ordines; Orate pro nobis Sancte johannes baptista, Ora Omnes sancti Patriarchae et Prophetae, Orate pro nobis Sancte Petre, Ora, Sancte Paul, Ora Sancte Andrea, Ora Sancte johannes, Ora pro Nobis Sancte jacobe, Ora Sancte Thoma, Ora Sancte Philippe. Ora Sancte jacobe, Ora Sancte Matthee, Ora Sancte Bartholomee, Ora pro nobis Sancte Simon, Ora Sancte Tathee, Ora Sancte Matthia Ora Sancte Barnaba, Ora Sancte Marce, Ora Sancte Luca Ora Omnes sancti Apostoli & Euangelistae, Orate pro nobis Omnes sancti discipuli & innocentes, Orate pro nobis Sancte Stephano, Ora Sancte Line, Ora Sancte Clete. Ora Sancte Clemens. Ora pro nobis Sancte Sixte, Ora Sancte Corneli, Ora Sancte Cyprian Ora Sancte Laurenti. Ora Sancte Vincenti. Ora pro nobis Sancte Cosma. Ora Sancte Damiaes, Ora. Sancte Fabiane. Ora. Sancte Sebastiano. Ora. Sancte Prime. Ora. Sancte Fae●ciane. Ora p●o● bis Sancte Thoma. Ora. Sancte Erasme. Ora, Sancte edmund. Ora. Sancte Christophere. Ora. Sancte Georgi. Ora pro nobis Sancte Blasi. Ora. Sancte Adriane. Ora. Sancte Dionysi, cum s●cijs tuis. Ora. Sancte Maurici cum socijs tuis. Ora. Sancte Gereon cum socijs tuis, Ora, Omnes sancti Martyrs Orate pro nobis Sancte edmund, Ora, Sancte Withelme, Ora Sancte Silvester, Ora Sancte Leo, Ora pro Nobis Sancte Hieronym, Ora Sancte Augustine, Ora Sancte Ambrosi. Ora Sancte Gregori, Ora Sancte Isidore, Ora Sancte juliane, Ora pro nobis Sancte Gilderde, Ora Sancte Medarde Ora Sancte Albine Ora Sancte Swithune, Ora Sancte Berme, Ora Sancte Lamberte Ora Sancte Martin, Ora Sancte Antoni, Ora Sancte Nicholae, Ora pro nobis Sancte Leonarde. Ora Sancte Erkenwalde Ora Sancte edmund, Ora Sancte benedict Ora San cte Dunstane, Ora Sancte Cuthberte Ora pro nobis Omnes sancti confessores, Orate pro nobis Omnes sancti Monachi et Eremitae, Orate pro nobis Sancta Maria Magdalena, Ora Sancta Maria Aegiptiaca, Ora Sancta Anna, Ora Sancta Susanna, Ora Sancta Katherine, Ora Sancta Margareta Ora Sancta Perpetua, Ora Sancta Faelicitas Ora pro nobis Sancta Genouefa, Ora Sancta Praxedis, Ora Sancta scholastica, Ora Sancta Petronilla, Ora Sacta sotheris, Ora Sancta Prisca, Ora Sancta Tecla, Ora pro nobis Sancta Afra, Ora Sancta Editha, Ora Sancta Barbara, Ora Sancta Helena, Ora Sancta Apollonia, Ora Sancta Agatha, Ora Sancta Lucia. Ora Sancta Agnes. Ora pro nobis Sancta Christina, Ora Sancta Scytha, Ora Sancta Cecilia, Ora Sancta Wenefreda. Ora Sancta Fredesweda, Ora pro nobis Sancta Gertrudis. Ora Sancta Othilia, Ora Sancta Brigitta, Ora Sancta Vrsula cum sodalibus tuis, Ora Sancta Wilgefortis, Ora Omnes sanctae Virgins Orate pro nobis Omnes sanctae viduae et continentes. Orate pro nobis Omnes sanctiet sanctae Dei. Orate pro nobis The Minister. O gross! what a number of Gods have you? b I●●enal in satire. Nec turba Deorum Talis ut est hody, contentaque sydera paucis Numinibus, miserum urgebant Atlanta minore pondere. There were not wont to be so many Gods, as now a days; the heavens were content with a smaller number of them, and laid less burden upon the shoulders of poor. Atlas. The Recusant. Gods? c Bellar●. de beatitud. Sanct. lib. ● cap, 19, We make them not our Gods, but our intercessors only to God for us. The Minister. Yes, you make them not your intercessors only, but your protectors, and you hope not only to be heard by their intercession, but to be saved by their merits: for of Gregory, you say thus in your prayers. Hic nos saluet à peccatis in Coelo cum beatis Possimus quiescere. That is, let him save us from our sins, that in heaven we may rest with the blessed. And of Sabbas you say: d Missal, Rom ●x co●cil Trid●at 〈◊〉▪ in 〈◊〉 D●c●mbr●, p●ge 5. Let blessed Sabbas by making intercession for us, protect us, O Lord: and of all the Apostles in general. e Missal▪ Rom, in prefat, ●eria●● de Apo●●o●is. by thy Apostles keep us, continua protectione, with thy continual protection. And of Saint Peter and of Saint Paul in particular: f 〈◊〉, Rom. Concede ut amborum meritis, aeternitatis gloriam consequamur: grant that by the merits of them both we may obtain eternal glory. And of Mathias: g Missal, Rom, in festis februarij page. 38, persancti Mathiae orationem nos expiari facias et defendi: by the prayer of Mathias make us to be cleansed from our sins, and defended. And h Missal, Rom▪ in festis januarij page 27. let not the prayer of Saint Chrysostome be wanting unto us; quae et munera nostra conciliet, & tuam nobis indulgentiam semper obtineat, which may both cause our gifts to be accepted, and also obtain thy pardon for us. As for the Virgin Marie, you make intercession to her, not only by requesting, but also by meriting; yea, by commanding; as appeareth by this speech of Damianus: i Damian serm. 2 de not▪ Mari●. Accedis ad illud aureum reconciliationis altar, non solum regens, sed etiam imperans, non ancilla sed domina: thou hast access unto that golden Altar of reconciliation, not only governing, but also commanding; not an handmaid, but a Lady. And you apply that unto her, which in the Psalms is spoken of God the father and the son: for thus you pray: In te Domina speravi, miserere mei Domina: dixit dominus dominae mea, sede matter mea adextris meis, etc. that is, in thee O Lady have I put my trust, O Lady have mercy upon me, the Lord said unto my Lady, O my mother sit thou on my right hand, etc. And thus, k Missal. parisiens. O foelix p●erpera, Nostrapiaus scelera, jure matris impera Redemptori. That is, O happy mother, which d●est purge away our sins, by thy mothetly authority command our redeemer. And again l Oratio ad bea●. Mariam in co suff●ag, fol, 57 D●le culpas miserorum, Terge sordes peccatorum, Dona nobis beatorum Vitam tuis precibus, Blot out the sins of us miserable wretches, wipe away the filthiness of us sinners, and by thy prayers give unto us the life of the blessed. Yea, you commend yourselves unto her alone, saying. O regina poli Mater gratissimaproli Spernere me noli, Me commendo tibi soli. O Queen of heaven, mother most dear to thy son, do not thou despise me, unto thee alone I commend me. And you exclude our Saviour Christ from his office of redemption, and make her m Innocentius in orat, ●e 300, di●r. indulgent. Desperatorum spem unicam, peccatorum saluatricem, The only hope of them that are in despair, and the saviour of sinners: You do also hold it lawful to say the Pater noster to saints; and to say unto them n vide Fox. Act. et mon. pag, 1274. hallowed be your names, because God hath made their names holy, and that their kingdom may come, because the kingdom of heaven is theirs by possession: and farther that their wills may be done, seeing that their will is God's will: and so of the other petitions. But to adjoin one answer more, though you did but pray unto saints, as intercessors only. Yet thereby do you make them Gods▪ and consequently idols: for by praying unto them you acknowledge that they have power to hear and help in all places, and at all time, ˢ & that they know the secrets of your hearts. Now to hear and to discern the very heart, is a proper action of the Godhead: for the Lord (as Solomon saith) o 1. Reg▪ 8. 39 only knoweth the h●arts of the children of men. Prayer also is a proper part of God's worship, as Christ our saviour teacheth, saying, p Matth: 4 10. Him only shalt t●ou serve. Now than it followeth by necessary consequent, that you make the saints Gods, by your ascribing to them the proper actions of the Godhead, and by giving that to them, which is Gods in property: for to what thing soever the glory that is due unto God, is ascribed; it is made another God, as appeareth, by these places of scripture, Gen, 30. 2. Am I as God who hath deprived thee of the fruit of the womb, 2. Reg. 5. 7. Am I a God to kill and to give life, Isay, 48. 11. My glory will I not give to any other. But to proceed, how do you prove, that the Angels, the Virgin Mary, and the rest of the saints, do hear our prayers, and make intercession for us: & that we are to pray unto them. The Recusant. Our chiefest argument is drawn from the testimonies of the ancient fathers. The Minister. From the ancient fathers! I have perused some of them, yet could I never found in them any ground for this matter. Nay I found much to the contrary. To begin with Saint Origen he telleth us, q Ori●, contra Cels●m lib, 5, Quod omnia vota, omnes interpellationes, deprecationes, et gratiarum actiones destinandae sunt ad deum rerum omnium dominum, that all vows, all requests, prayers, and thanksgivings, are to be directed to God the Lord of all things: r Ibid. and that none should dareto offer prayers, nisi soli dommo deo, but only unto the Lord God. And what need we to ofter our prayers to any but to him? s Ambr. s●in epist ad, Rom, 1. ad deum promerendum suffragatore non opus est, sedment devota: to win God unto us we need none to speak in our behalf, but only a devout mind. t Chrys●st▪ de paenitentia, hom. 5. Let us therefore (to use Saint Chrysostom's words) fly unto God, who is both willing and able to ease our miseries. If we had a suit to men, we must first meet with porters and warders, and persuade parasites and jesters, and oftentimes go a great way. But in God there is no such thing. Sine mediatore exorabilis est, sine pecunia, sine impensa precibus annuit, without a mediator he is to be entreated; and he yieldeth unto our prayers withoutmony, and without v Lactant, divin. justit, 2, 17. cost and charges. Yea, it is but in vain for us to offer any such honour to the Angels and saints: ᵘ nullum enim sibi honorem tribui volunt, quorum henor in deo est, for those whose honour is in God, will have no honour ginem to them. But to give you a blow with the hammer of heretics x August de cura promortuis gereda, cap, 15. saint Augustine, was persuaded, that if the dead did know the actions of the living, and understand the secret thoughts of the heart, that then his mother Monica, who loved him dearly in her lifetime, would sometime have appeared to him after her death: and that she being in a life of farre more felicity, would not have grown so cruel towards him. But he saith, that she was never present with him, neither by dream, nor any apparition whatsoever, and therefore he suspected greatly, that she had no knowledge of him. Yea, y Aug. ibid. he alleged Isai. 63. 16. Doubtless thou art our father: Though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel know us not, yet thou O Lord art our father and our redeemer: and thy name is for ever. Which confession of the people, made him to think, that the dead do not know the deeds of the living. z Ibid. He alleged also 2. Reg. 22, 20, where it is said, that josias was taken away; that he might not see the evil, which was to come upon the Land. But not to stand any longer hereupon; your Angelical Doctor acknowledgeth, that the souls of those that are departed out of this life, do a Exse. Aq●●n part, 1, quae● 89 art, 8, of themselves know nothing that is done here below upon the earth. The place of Scripture that made him acknowledge this was job. 14. 21. Where it is said, that a dead man doth not know, if his sons shall be honourable, neither doth he understand concerning them, whether they shall be of low degree. And truly this is a very pregnant place: for if a dead man do not know that which is sensible to the eye of man; how is it possibly that he should know the secrets of men's hearts, which are insensible, and cannot be seen but by the allseeing eye of God. The Recusant. Sir, although you can find no ground for this matter, in the writings of the ancient fathers, yet I can: for I find that S. Austen himself, prayed both to the b Aug, in serm. 19, de San●●. Virgin Mary, and to c Aug in med●a tiombus. other Saints, and that he was of opinion, that the d Aug, de vera Relig, cap, 55, Angels do both hear our prayers, e Aug, ●pt●●, 120 & deliver our prayers unto God, yea that we may f Aug, tra●●, 84. in johan, pray to the Martyrs that they may pray for us, that we may walk in g Aug confess, 93 their steps. q He did also verily think that his friend Nebridius did think on him in heaven. And before him S. h Chrys●n ps● 8 Chrysostome, made mention of the intercession of the Virgin Marie, and of other of the saints. And in the works of Gregory Nazianzene, I find certain prayers of his both to the Virgin i Gre●, naz●anz, ●●●, 29. Marie, and to k Orat, 31, Athanasius. join hereto the testimony of saint l Hieron, epist. 25 lerome who saith, that Blesilla being dead, did pray for her mother Paula being alive. The Minister. I answer you four ways▪ First, I say that there are many things in the writings of the ancient fathers, which are fathered on their names: whereas indeed they are not theirs, but some base fellows, who to win credit to their writings assumed noble names, as an one of our judicious m 〈◊〉, in Problemat. divines hath showed at large. Secondly, I answer, that the fathers which you all eadge for the proof of this matter, did not at the first ponderously consider of this question, and that afterwards when they did judiciously sift it, and discuss it, they were either of acontrarie opinion to their former, or spoke thereof very faintly, waveringly and doubtfully. To verify what I have said, take a view of saint Austen, who being to dispute this very question, saith thus: n August, de ●ura●ro mo●tu●● ge●enda cap, 13. ut volet accipiat quisque nod dicam: let every man as it pleaseth him, take that which I shall say. Nazianzene, also speaking of saint Basile being dead, useth this doubtful speech: o Greg Naztanz. or ●t, 30. Now is Basile in heaven, and there, ut opinor as I think, he offereth sacrifices for us and poureth out prayers for the people: and speaking of his dead sister Gorgonia, he saith thus: p Idem cra●, 25, St quid nostros etiam honores curas, etc. If thou take any care of the honouring of us, and if this reward be given by God unto holy souls, that they shall perceive these things, then receive my prayer. Thirdly, although, some of the ancient fathers, were happily of this opinion; yet all were not: for I have showed, that some of them did hold the quite contrary. Fourthly although the ancient fathers had all jointly embraced this opinion; yet are not we therefore bound to receive it. For q Aug. epist. ●●● we are not to esteem the disputations of any, yea, albeit they be Catholic and commendable men, to be as the canonical scriptures, so that, saving the honour whichiss due to those men we may dislike and reject any thing in their writings, if we find that they have thought otherwise then the truth hath, as it shall by God's assistance be understood, either by others or by ourselves. But to draw towards a conclusion, by who think you, were these Saints put into the Litany. The Recusant. Doubtless they were put in by the Catholic fathers. The Minister. No Sir, they were not put in by any Catholics, but by Heretics: for I find that the heretic Gnapheus was the first, that caused the Virgin Marie to be put into the public prayers of the Church, and to be named in r in pre●atione omni Dei gen●trix nomin●tur et diui●um e●s nomen in ve●a●●tur▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, lib, 15▪ ●● every prayer, and invocated. And I make no question, but that he and his fellows put in the rest of the Saints: and that your pretended Catholic Church doth tread in their steps. The Recusant. It seems then, that you hold the honouring of Saints to be heretical. The Minister. Not I hold, that the Saints are to be honoured, and that three ways; viz. by a reverent esteeming of them, by a godly imitating of them, and by praising God for proposing such holy examples to us, as patterns for our imitation 1 They are to be honoured, by reverent esteeming of them, and ●y keeping them in perpetual remembrance. Thus the Prophet s 2 Sam▪ 1. 16. David commended jonathan for his fervent and constant love; Elizeus Elias; & our Saviour Christ the woman that powered on him a Box of ointment, saying: that t Mark. 14 19 wheresoever the Gospel should be preached throughout the world, that which the woman had done in anointing him should b● spoken of, for a memorial of her. And thus the Virgin Marie as a Prophetess foretelleth that v Luke▪ ●, 48. all nations shall call her blessed. And this kind of honour did the ancient x Nos 〈◊〉 no● templa si●ut 〈◊〉, sed memorias sicut hominibu●●ortuis, quo●●●● apud deum v●●●nt spiritus, ●abricam●●, August 〈◊〉 dei, lib, 22, cap, 10, fathers likewise give to the Saints. 2 They are to be honoured by a godly imitating of their faith in Christ, the fear of God, and all good virtues wherein they excelled. And for this cause the examples of the godly are called a cloud of witnesses, by an allusion to the cloud that did guide the Israelites through the Wilderness: for as that cloud did lead them to the Land of Canaan; so should the examples of the faithful, lead us to the heavenly Canaan. And this kind of honour was also given to the Saints, by the Orthodox y ●lla quidem anima in societa●e recepta ●idelium, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 curate nec quaerit buma nas, imitationem tantum quaerit Aug, epist, 125 Honorand● sunt propter imitationem, non adorandi propter religionem, Idem. fathers. 3 They are to be honoured by giving God thanks for them, and for the benefits that God vouchsafed by them to his Church. Thus did the a Gal, 1, 13. Church glorify God for Saint Paul's conversion. And thus do we honour the Saints, but we dare not go further, and rob God (as you do) of his honour, & give that honour to them, which he hath appropriated to himself, lest we should be accounted guilty of robbery to our only Lord and Master, who is a b Exod, 20, 5. jealous GOD, c Isay, 48, ●●. and will not give his glory to any other. d 1 Tim, 1, 17 Now unto the King everlasting, immortal; invisible unto GOD only wise be honour, & glory for ever, and ever, Amen. The second Dialogue. Wherein is plainly showed, that the Papists, do depend as much upon the Pope's expositions, as the rabbinical Jews did upon the expositions of their jewish Rabbins, and that they are so far from joining with the ancient Fathers, as that they join, both in matters of Doctrine and Manners, with the Arrians, Abellians, Adam●ans, Aetians, Apostolicks, Angelicks, Anthropomorphites, Anomi, Armemij, Bonosians, Basilideans, Beguaraines, Caians, Carpocratians, Circumcellions, Cathari, Cataphryges, Capernites, Dositheans, Eutychians,, Eunomij, Ethnophronians, Euphemites, Gnosimachis, Hemerobaptists, Herodians, Helzaits, Helcestees, Hieranchit●s, Heracleonites, Monothelites, Maletians, Messalians, Marcosij, Montanists, Manichees; Marcionites, Nestorians, novatians, Nudepedales, Nazarites, Nicolaites, Osseni, Priscillians, Pepuzians, Pelagians, Prodicus, Pharisees, Scribes, Sampsees, Severians, Simonians, Tatians, Valentinians, & Zuenckseldians. The Recusant. Sir, what news hear you from London? The Minister. Great news: The Recusant. What I pray you? The Minister. Truly, that one Thomas Percy, and other Popish Gentlemen are discovered to have contrived the most horrible treason that ever entered into the hearts of men. The Recusant. What treason? The Minister. They had thought (horresc● referens) to have massacred, a See the discourse of the manner of the discovery of this 〈◊〉 intended treason, page 3, et. 4●. the King our head, the Queen our fertile mother, and those young and hopeful Olive plants, not theirs, but ours. Our Reverend Clergy, our honourable Nohilitie, the faithful counsellors, the grave judges, the greatest part of the worthy Knights, and Gentry, as well as of the wisest Burgesses, the whole Clerks of the Crown, Counsel, Signet, Seals, or of any other principal judgement ●eate. All the learned Lawyers, together with an infinite number of the common people. Nay, their furious rage should not only have lighted upon reasonable & sensible creatures, without distinctio either of degree sex or age; But even the insensil le shocks and stones should not have been free of their fury. The Hall of justice; the house of Parliament; the Church used for the Coronation of our Kings; the Monuments of our former Princes, the Crown and other marks of Royalty; all the Records; as well of Parliament, as of every particular mansright, with a great number of Charters and such like, should all have been comprehended under that fearful Chaos. And so the earth as it were opened, should have sent forth of the bottom of the Stygian lake such sulphured smoke, furious flames, and fearful thunder, as should have by their diabolical domes day destroyed and defaced, in the twinkling of an eye, not only our present living Princes and people, but even our in sensible Monuments reserved for future ages. So as not only ourselves that are mortal, but the immortal Monuments of our ancient Princes and Nobility, that have been so preciously preserved from age to age, as the remaining Trophies of their eternal glory, and have so long triumphed over envious time, should now have been all consumed together; and so not only we, but the memory of us and ours, should have been thus extinguished, in an instant. So that, ᵇ if the Lord had not been on our side, (may England now say) if the Lord had not been on our siae, when men rose up against us, they had then swallowed us up quick, when their wrath was kindled against us. Then the ● Psa, 124. waters had drowned us & the streams had gone over our soul then had the swelling waters gone over our soul. Praised be the Lord, which hath not given us as a pray unto their teeth. Our soul is escaped, even as a bird out of the snare of the fowlers: the snare is broken and we are delivered. And let this our deliverance move you to worship our God, and to embrace our religion. The Recusant. Why should this move me? The Minister. Surely, if there were nothing else to move you to an embracing of our Orthodox Catholic faith; yet this our late deliverance, methinks, should invite you thereunto. Darius, (you know) when he had seen Daniel delivered fr●m the power of the Lions, he was thereby induced to fear the God of Daniel, and to make a decree, that in all the dominions of his Kingdom, c Dan, 3, 26, men should tremble and fear before the God of Daniel. And Nabuchodonosor made the like decree before, when he saw the deliverance of the 3 children, d Dan, 3, 29 that every people, Nation and Language, which spoke any blasphemy against the God of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, should be drawn in pieces, and their houses should be made a jakes, because there was no God that could deliver after that sort. Now let the sameminde be in you, that, was in Darius and Nabuchodonosor: let our deliverance from this devilish plot, which was within twelve hours of the execution, move you to tremble and fear before our God, and to turn Protestant. The Recusant. Turn Protestant? no, I will never turn. The Minister. Why will you not? The Recusant. Why? because your religion is a new religion. The Minister. A new religion? you are like the Stoic Philosophers, of whom we read in the Acts of the Apostles, that they disputed with Saint Paul, and called him b Act. 17, 18, 19 a sour of words, a setter out of strange Gods, and a teacher of new doctrine. But I pray you sir, do you think, that your religion is the old religion? The Recusant. Do I think so? I am past thinking: for I am sure that c D. Hill in his quartron of Reasons of Catholic religion, p, 44, it is, (to use the words of one of our learned doctors) most plainly taught by all the ancient fathers of the first, second, third, fourth, sift, & sixtage after Christ: and that it hath been (ever without all controversy) taught by the fathers of every age since until this day. The Minister. It is no wonder to hear an heretic brag of antiquity; for it hath been the usual manner of heretics in all ages, to take unto themselves the Church, Scriptures, fathers, all antiquity, consent, continuance, and perpetuity unto the end of the world. To insistin some particulars, Dioscorus, though he himself was an heretic, yet cried he out in the Council of Chalcedon, that he defended the opinions of the ancient fathers; that he had the testimonies of Athanasius, Gregory, Cyrill, and of the rest of the holy fathers: that he had them, not by snatches, or at the second hand, but uttered in their own books: that he did not vary from them in any thing: and that he was cast out with them. His words were these: Concil. Chal. Ego habeo testimonia sanctorum patrum▪ Athanasis, Gregorij, Cyrilli: non transgredior in aliquo; ego cum patribus ei●cior: ego defendo patrum dogmata: ego horum habeo testimonia, non simil●citer aut transitory, said in ipsorum libris. The like outcry made the heretic Euty che, and Carisius his follower in the same s Act, 1, ●● 4. Council. And weeread how that t Vid● Aug, contra. Cres●on. lib. 4. ●. 17. Cresconius the Donatist, disputing with Saint Austen, cited Saint Cyprian: that the v Vide council, 〈◊〉 1, pag, 877, Nestorian heretic alleged the authority of the Council of Nice: that the x Vide Socrat. lib, 4, c, 26, Arrian heretic produced the testimony of S. Origen; and that the Novatian heretic, y Simiarum more, Cyprian. epist, ad lub. after an apish manner, took unto himself the authority of the Church, & of all the ancient fathers thereof. Now to make application hereof; by the like apish imitation do you take unto yourselves the Church, Counsels, fathers, & all antiquity whatsoever. But what do I term it an apish imitation? you do indeed imitate the Ass that Aesop telleth of, which to make other beasts afraid, put on a lions skin, & therewith jetted abroad terribly, thinking thereby to deceive his fellows; for as the lions skin was but lapped about him, & grew not to his body: so although you be no true members of the Church; yet cover you yourselves with the title and name thereof; thinking thereby to z Diabolus excogi tavit no●●afrade, ut sub ipso nomin●● Christian t●tulo fallat 〈◊〉 tos, Cyprio de Simplicit. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rum, deceive simple people, that are soon inveighled to fancy any thing. And albeit your religion hath not continued the age of ●n man of the old world, nor come to the age of Methushelah, being not yet nine hundred years since first it came to light; yet bear you the world in hand, that it hath been most plainly and evidently taught by all the ancient Fathers of the first, second, third, fourth, fift, and sixth age after Christ: and that it hath continued ever since until this day▪ a cap. 〈…〉 . O quantum togmen est falsitatis! O how great a show doth falsehood make! The Recusant. Not to trifle out the time in words, can you disprove what I have said. The Minister. Yes, I can prove, that you are so far from joining with the ancient fathers, as that you have indeed joined with sundry ancient heretics, both in matters of doctrine, and mannes. The Recusant. With what heretics? The Minister. With the Arrians, Adamians, Abelians, Aetians, apostolics, Angelickes, Anthropomorphites, Anomi, Armemij, Bonosians, Basilidians, Beguardines, Caians, Carpocratians, Circumcellions, Cathari, Cataphryges, Capernites, Dositheans, Donatists', Eutycheans, Eunomij, Ethnophronians, Euphemites, Gnosimachis, Heremobaptists, Herodians, Helzaits, Helcesees, Hierarchites, Heracleonites, Monothelites, Meletians, Messalians, Marcosij, Montanists, Manichees, Marcionites, novatians, Nudipedales, Nazarites, Nicolaites, Osseni, Priscillians, Pepuzians, Pelagians, Prodicus, Pharisees, Scribes, Sampsees, Severians, Simonians, Tatians, Valentinians, & Zuenckfeldians. The Recusant. To observe this your Alphabetical order, wherein do we join with the Arrians. The Minister. The Arrians, though they were abominable Heretics, yet bragged b vide, August, serm. contra Ar●a nos, tom, 6, they, that they alone were the true Catholics, and called all those that were not of their sect, Ambrosians, Athanasians, and johannites, so you, although you be indeed nothing less than Catholic; yet you do usurp the name of Catholics, as due alone to yourselves, and do call all those that are not of your faction * Harding in his Con●at, of the Apol, 42, 81, 222 Zwinglians, Lutherans, Caluinists, and Turkish Hugenotes. 2 The Arrians made great brags of the long continuance of their Church, saying; that they could show, that it had continued circiter mill ducentes annos, about a thousand and two hundred years: so do you likewise make great boasts, that you can c Rhemist, annot. in Act, 28, sect, ●, show the descent of your Church from Adam. 3 The Arrians made universality a note of their Church, as appeareth by this speech of Naziauzene: d Nazianz. in serm. 〈◊〉 con. Arriann●● Vbinam illi sunt qui multitudine ecclesiam definiunt & gregem exiguam aspernantur? Where are they that define the Church by a multitude, and do despise the little flock? Yea, the Arrian heresy was diffused throughout the whole world, as is apparent by this testimony of saint Hierome: e Hieron in di●● adverse, Luciferia nos. Ingemuit totus orbis, & see Arrianum miratus est. Now with these vile heretics do you agreed; for f Pellarm, lib 4. de ec●les. ca●, 4, Rhemist, in ●ct. cap. ●, sect, ●. you make universality to be a mark of the true Church. 4 The Arrians taught, that the Church might expound the Scriptures, at one time one way, and at another time another way: which made Saint Hylary to say thus unto them; Fides ergo magis temporum est, g Hi●●r. ad constantium, vam Euangeliorum: that is, faith therefore followeth the time, and not the Gospel. To this heresy of the Arrians do you fully subscribe: for you teach, that the sense of Scriptures may be divers according to the variety of your practice & diversity of times. The h Magister sa●ri, pa●atij Romae, ad lega●os Bohemico●▪ su● felice papa. pag. 1447. Pope (saith one of your chief Masters) may change the holy Gospel, and may give to the Gospel, according to the place and time, another sense. Yea, i Nicol. C●●●. ad ●o●●mo● epist, 7 Non est mirum (saith another) si praxis eccl●siae uno tem pore interpretatur scripturam uno modo, et alio tempore alio modo: nam intellectus currit cum praxi: intellectus enim, quia cum praxi concurrit, est spiritus vivificans. Sequuntur ergo scripture ecclesiam: & none converso. That is, It is no marvel, though the practice of the Church do expound the Scriptures, at one time one way, and at another time another way: for the understanding or sense of the Scriptures runneth with the practice: and that sense so agreeing with the practice is the quickening spirit. And therefore the scriptures follow the Church: but contrariwise the Church followeth not the Scriptures. 5. The Arrians denied Christ to be Autotheon, God of himself: so do you likewise deny, that Christ is Autotheos, God of himself; and do affirm, that he had not only his person, but his substance of the father: whereupon k Rhemist. in Io●●n, 1, sect, 3, you are bold to charge M. Caluin with blasphemy, for saying, that Christ is God of himself as well as the father. But what need I observe any semblances betwixt you and the Arrians? your own writers confess, that Pope Liberius, gave his hand and heart unto them. m Alphons, de ●ar●●, lib, 1. ●, 4. De Liberio Papa (saith Alphonsus) constat fuisse Arrianum: as for Pope Liberius, it is well known, that he was an Arrian. The same also acknowledgeth Sabellicus: n Sabellic Ennead. 7, lib, 8. Arriani precibus suis apud Constantium Liberio reditum ad urbem confecere: quo ille beneficio commotus, ex confesso Arrianus, ut quidam scribunt, est factus. That is, The Arrian heretics, by their entreaty unto the Emperor Constantius, obtained of him, that Pope Liberius might be restored again into the City: with which good turn Liberius being moved, as some writ, became an Arrian in good earnest, and with his heart. With them both agreeth Cardinal Cusanus: o Nicol, Cus●. d● concord, lib, 2, ●, 5 Liberius consensit errori Arrianorum: Liberius gave his consent to the error of the Arrians. And in an other place: p Cusan▪ de concord. lib, 1, ●, 14. Liberius et Honorius, et alij in cathedra Petri aliquando insidentes, in errorem schismaticum seducti ceciderunt: Liberius and Honorius, and other Pope's sitting for a while in Peter's chair, being misled, fell into schismatical error. And thus much concerning your agreement with the Arrians, now let us proceed in order to the rest. The Recusant. What agreement is there betwixt us and the Adamians. The Minister. The Adamians q August, d●. ●●●e●, cap, ●●. condemned marriage in priests; so do you. 2 The Adamians, though they held it unlawful for priests to marry, yet they held it to be lawful, to have women and courtesans in common: so do your divines of Louvain hold, that r Polluitur sacerdotium matrimonio non mere●●●cibus, priesthood is polluted with Matrimony, not with harlots. And one of your Jesuits affirmeth, s Hoffaeus apud 〈◊〉 de a●●●●e Iesu●●●▪ cap, 6, et. sect. ●, page, 105. minus peccare sacer●otem adulterando, quam coniugem ducend●; That a priest sinneth less by committing adultery, then by marring a wife. The Recusant. Wherein do we agreed with the Abelians? The Minister. The Abelians, though they t August de ●eres, cap▪ ●. thought it unlawful for any of their sect to live without wives; yet they never kept company with them. To this heresy of theirs do your v Rhemist. in, Act, 21, sect, 1, Rhemists incline over far: for they hold, that Priests which are married before orders, aught not afterwards to have access to their wives; & yet are they their wives still, neither is the marriage knot dissolved between them. The Recusant. Wherein do we resemble the Actians. The Minister. Actius the old heretic, used to say thus: o Epiphan, lib, 5, haemus, 56. dormire cum muliere extra coniugium, non magis est peccatum, quam aurem scalpere: To have the company of a woman out of marriage, is no more a sin, than it is for a man to claw his ear. So some of your faction have not been ashamed to say, as p jacob▪ de Valentia, in ps. 118 one of your own side reporteth, that single fornication may be lawfully used. q Fornicationem ●mpli●em esse ●●itam. The Recusant. Wherein do we join with the apostolics? The Minister. The apostolicks, r August, de haeres, cap, 40, et Epiphan, haeres, 61, received none into their order, that had wives or, possessed any thing in property; but those only that vowed poverty and single life: so doth your Church condemn all Monks and Friars that possess any goods in property, and both Monks and Priests that match themselves in marriage. The Recusant. Wherein do we agreed with the Angelickes, Anthropomorphites, Anomi, and Armenij? The Minister. The Angelickes were t vide Epiphan. de Ange●cis, Aug, de haeres, cap, 39 Isidor, lib, 8, Originum. et council, Loadicen can, 35 reputed heretics, because they worshipped Angels: so are you likewise to be reputed, because you pray unto Angels, saying. v Vide missal Roman, ex council, Trident. restitutum, pag, 249. 250 Sancte Michael Ora pro nobis Sancte Gabriel. Ora Sancte Rhaphael, Ora Omnes sancti Angeli et Archangeli. Orate pro nobis The Anthropomorphites x Aug, de hares, cap, 50, imagined God to be like a mortal man: so do you, when you figure the image of the most blessed and sacred Trinity, sometimes with three faces, as in your z Horae Mariae common prayer books printed in the year of our Lord, 1555. And sometimes like an old man, having a long grey beard, and his son sitting by him, with a dove between them. The Anomis were reputed heretics, for that they either contemned, or corrupted the law of God; how then can a George Do●●●e 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 plai●e in●●●u●●ion ●a●ely printed. you wipe away the blot of heresy, who take away the second commandment out of the decalogue, and do hold concupiscence to be no sin, which God in his b Exod 20, 17 law condemneth for a sin? The Armenij c E●thymius in Panoplia. worshipped the cross of Christ: so do you the sign of the Cross. The Recusant. Let us now come to the Bonosians: wherein do we resemble them? The Minister. The Bonosians preferred human traditions before the word of God, so do you. d So●o in confess Catho●. de Eccles page, 138. Traditio, (saith one of your approved writers) est anti quior et efficacior sacra sciptura: tradition, is of more antiquity, and of more efficacy than the sacred scriptures. e Canus locorum theol. lib. 3. ●ol, 98 Add hereunto, (saith another) that for confounding of heretics, there is greater strength in tradition, then in the scripture. The Recusant. Wherein do we join with the Basilidians. The Minister. The Basilidians did (as both Iraenaeus & Epiphanius do record, f Iron. lib, 1, ●, 23 ●t Epiphan haeres, 24. conceal and hide the mysteries of their Religion, least holy things should be cast to dogs; so do you, for the self same cause, as appeareth by these speeches of Harding a popish doctor; g Harding, con●ut 213. Ye prostitute scriptures as bawds do their Harlots, to the ungodly, unlearned, and rascal's people. And in in another place: h Harding in his Ans, art▪ 15. ●●vis, 7. the unlearned people were kept from the reading of the Scriptures by the special providence of God, that precious stones should not be thrown before swine. 2 The Basilidians i Iren, lib. 1, advers, haer●●▪ ●▪ 2●. worshipped Images, and enjoined all their followers to do the same: so do you worship the Images of the Virgin Marie, and of sundry other Saints, and do k Council, T●●d●● sesse, 9. enjoin all men to do as you do. 3 The Basilidians l Iren. lib, 1, ●. 2. used enchantments, and superstitious admirations: so do you conjure water, saying: exorcizo te creatura aquae: and salt saying, exorcizo te creature a salis, you do also conjure and enchant sundry other things, as appeareth by your m Vide Meng●● de exorcisms. books of exorcisms, yea you make exorcists and conjurers an holy n Rhemists, ●●●, Tim, 3, sect, 7. Concil. Trident. sess, 7, cap, 1. ⁿ order, and that order a ᵒ sacrament of the Church The Recusant. Wherein do we agreed with the Beguardines? The Minister. The Beguardines held that p Hominem hic perfectum esse posse, Clementin. lib, 5, tit, 3, cap. 3 a man may be perfect in this life: so do your q Rhemist, in joan, 4, sect, 1, Rhemists in their annotations upon the Gospel after Saint john. 2 The Beguardines held that r Spiritualem humanae ob●dientiae non esse subiectu: Clementin, lib, 5, tit, 3, c. 3, a spiritual man is subject to no human obedience: so do you hold, that s Papa solutut est omni ●ege humana Casus Papales abud Hosi●ens. the Pope is not bound to any human law, Yea, he subjecteth not himself unto the laws of God; but taketh upon him, to dispense with them at his pleasure, & thinketh that he may lawfully break them. And if any man chance to tell him of the breach of any law: He will by and by answer. t johan▪ 23. Am not I a Pope? Thereby signifying, that being Pope, he is subject to no law. The Recusant. What semblances have you observed betwixt us & the Caians? The Minister. The Caians v 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 38. worshipped Angels, and prayed unto them: so do you, as hath been already showed. 2 The Caians x 〈◊〉, Ibid. avouched all their follies and heresies, not by the Scriptures, but by tradition, as they said, from Saint Paul: so do you avouch all your fictions and forgeries, not by the Scriptures, but by tradition from Saint Peter. The Pope's Territories and Lordships are (forsooth) y Innocent, 3, ●xtrav. cap, per venerab●●em. Saint Peter's Patrimony: his tyrannical usurpations, z 〈◊〉 ●sperg. in Chrens, Henric 3, et Onuphrius de 7 urb. eccles, in palate, latera●. Saint Peter's Royalties: his dignity, a Leo epist, 45 Saint Peter's honour: his prerogative, b Ibid. Saint Peter's right: his stateliness, c Leo epist, 87. Saint Peter's reverence: his closet, d Innocent, 4. extrav. cap maiores Saint Peter's see: his City, e Onuphrius de Saint Peter's borough: and his poll money, f vrb, eccles. Saint Peter's pence. Yea you depend so much upon Saint Peter, as that you are not ashamed to affirm, that Christ took Peter, in consortium individuae unit at is, into the company of the indivisible unity: and that the Popes speak by the inspiration of Saint Peter. k Leo, Ibid, Obtestamur h Denarius beati Petri, Math, Pa●●●●in Henric, 7. ● Leo epist, 89, (saith Leo) ut e● quae à nobis, Deo inspirant, & beatissimo Petro Apostolo, discussis, probatis que nunc omnibus causis, decreta sunt, seruetis; That is, We beseech you to keep those things, which, all causes being discused and proved, have been decreed by us, by the inspiration of GOD, and of the most blessed Apostle Peter. The Recusant. Wherein do we agreed with the Carpocratians, and Circumcellions? The Minister. The Carpocratians used (as both l 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉, 1, ● 2. Irenaeus and m Aug, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cap▪ 7. Augustine do record) to worship Images, and to burn incense unto them: so do you. The Circumcellions n 〈◊〉, 〈…〉, 〈◊〉 thought it a matter meritorious, to kill those that were contrary to th●ir sect: So do your Romish Doctors accounted it lawful: yea meritorious to murder those Princes and people that are not of your Religion. For the proof here of, I refer you to Cardinal como's letter that was dated at Rome, januarie the 30. Anno Dom. 1584. Wherein he thus wrote to William Parrie. * The ●. Mon signore la santita de. V S. have ●●to le lettere d●. US. ael primo c●nla fede in●lus●, et not p●● se nea ●●udare la buona dispositone et risolutione, the schri●e di tenere verso●● servitio et beneficio publico, ●●●che la Santita sua lesserta di persever are, confarne rinscire lieffetti che V. S. promette: et accioc●e tantom iggiorme te, V S. sia, aiutata da quel buon spirito chel 〈◊〉 le corcede sua ●eneditione, plenaria indulgenz let remissione: di tutti li peccati, secondo cho V S. ha' chieso, assicur and ossiche oltre il merito, ch ● havero in cielo Vuo, le anco sua Santi●a constituir si debitore aricc▪ noscere li meriti di, V, S. 〈◊〉 mighor modo che potra, et cio tanto pi● quonto che, V S. usa maggior modestia in non protender ment. Metta dun●, ad effetto li suot santi et honorati pensieri, et ●ttenda aestar sano, Che per fine io me l● offero di core, et le desidero ogni buono et felice successo. Di Roma a 30 di Genuaro M. D, Lxxxiiij. The English, Sir, the holiness of our Lord hath seen your letter with the credence enclosed, and cannot but praise your good disposition and resolution, which (as you writ) tendeth to the service & benefit public▪ where in his holiness exhorteth you to continued, & to bring to pass that which you promise'. And to the end that you may be aided by that good spirit which hath induced you to this, his blessedness granteth you full pardon and forgiveness of all your sins, as you requested, assuring you that besides the merit which you shall receive in heaven, his holiness will make himself a farther debtor, to acknowledge your deserving in the best manner that he may: & so much the more, because you use so great modesty, innot pretending any thing. Put therefore in act your holy & honourable thoughts, and look to your safety. And so I present myself heartily to you, and wish you all good and happy success. From Rome the 30 of januarie. 1584. Lo, here you see, how that Pope Gregory the 13▪ granted to Parry full pardon and forgiveness of all his sins; and assured him, that he should receive merit in heaven, if that he could murder his sovereign. But 1. Sam. 26 9 The Pope taketh upon him to do that, which the very Scribes condemned, Mark 2, 7. his assurance is little worth, For, * Who can lay his hands on the Lords anointed and be guiltless? * and who can forgive sins but God only? The Recusant. Wherein do weresemble the Capernites and Cataphryges? The Minister. The Capernites dreamt (as the o john. 6. Evangelist testifieth) of a carnal manner of eating of Christ's flesh: so do you, when you affirm that the natural & substantial body of Christ is really eaten with teeth, and locally descendeth into the stomach. Yea, some of your writers teach, that the body of Christ may be received of brute beasts, which the Capernites never were so gross as to avouch, p Alexande● de 〈◊〉 pa● 3. 〈◊〉, 45. If a d●gge or a hogg▪ saith Alezander de Hales) should eat the whole consecrated host, I see no cause but that the Lords body should go therewithal into the belly of that dog or hog. Thomas Aquinas also sharply reproveth them which think otherwise. His words are these: q Th●m, 〈◊〉 part, 3▪ 〈◊〉 ●. art, ●, Some have said, that as soon as the Sacrament is taken of a mouse or a dog, straightway the body and blood of Christ cease to be there: but this is a derogation to this sacrament. And of the same blasphemous opinion, is Petrus de Palude, johannes de Burgo, Nicholaus de Orbellis, with the whole sect of Thomists. The Cataphryges did make their Eucharist▪ of the ●de infantis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉, de t●to 〈◊〉 corpore m●n●t●● 〈◊〉 vulneribus extorqu●t, quasi 〈◊〉 ● ristia● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 b●tur Aug. d● haeres, c. 26, s Aug. de 〈◊〉, c, 38, et Isid. ●tym, lib, 8 ●. de belsabub Christian. blood of children: so have your Priests showed the people in the Sacrament the blood of ducks, and Pigeons; making them believe, that it was the blood of Christ. The Recusant. Wherein do we agreed with the Cathari. The Minister. The Cathari ˢ boasted much of their merits, purity and perfection, and accounted all men wicked that were not of their sect: so did the late traitors; as appeareth by a certain letter, which one of them wrote a little before their late intended massacre: wherein are these words: God and man hath concurred to punish the wickedness of this time. Lo, these catholics believed, that they had speech with God, and that he enjoined them to kill all the wicked in the Realm, and to constitute a ne we WORLD, consisting only of the innocent. 2 The Cathari Theodo, et, heresy lib. 3 rebaptized those that were already baptised: so we read in the histories of France and Flaunders, that the Popish Priests there have rebaptized those that were already baptised by Protestant Ministers. The Recusant. Wherein do we resemble the Dositheans, and the Donatists'? The Minister. The x Epis●an, heres. 13 an ᵉ Christum Dositheans abstained from the use of marriage, although they were married, and gave not that ane benevolence, which Saint y 1, Cor. 7, 3 Paul biddeth the husband to give to the wife, and the wife to the husband. They were also noted for their voluntary fastings, and for their superstitious afflicting of their bodies. Now, with these heretics do you go hand in hand: for you accounted it great holiness for married comples to z Petrus de soto in ass●●tione Cath o●. de votis. live a sunder, and to take upon them the vow of Monkery. Yea, you hold, that * ● xor catholica v●ro haerelico de bitum reddere non tenetur Simancha episc. pascens, jussit, catho. a Petrus de Soto in ass●●. cath, de Ie●umo. wives are not bound to give to their husband's due benevolence, if they be heretics: you hold it also to be a work meritorious, to ᵃ wear sackcloth, to be given continually to fasting, to lie hard, to far meanly, and by other such ways to punish and afflict the body. The Donatists' b August, de hares, cap 69, it Cassianus psal. 60. abstained from the assemblies of all other men whatsoever, which were not of their opinion; and tied to a small corner in Africa, that Catholic Church which is diffused over the face of the whole earth. Now as the Donatists' believed, that the Church was only contained in Africa, and consisted only in the obedience, or c part. Donat●. part of Donatus: so do you in like manner believe, that noneare true members of the Catholic Church, which do not take the Pope's d Geron▪ more▪ Can. po●m 〈◊〉, Camsius de praecepus eccles, ar●, 9, Linda●ut lib, 4, 8●, Bellarm, de ecclesia. lib. 3, c, 2, ●● 〈◊〉, 12, part, live under his obedience, and acknowledge him to be their chief pastor, and the vicar of christ upon earth. 2 The Donatists' denied the true preaching of the word of God, to beean infallible note of the Church of Christ: hence was it that Saint Austin disputing with the Donatists', tied both himself and his adversaries to the scripture. His words were these. c Aug. de, unitate eccles, c, 16. Ecclesiam suam demonstrent si possunt, non in s●rmonibus et rum●ribus Afrorum, non in Concilijs Episcoporum suorum, non in litteris querumlibet disputatorum, non in signis & prodigijs fallacibus, quia etiam contra ista verbo Domini praeparati & c●uti redditi sumus; sed in prascripto legis, in Prophetarum pradictis, in Psalmorum cantibus, in ipsiusp storis vocibus in Euangelistarum praedicationibus & lahoribus, hoc est in omnibus canonicis sanctorum librorum autoritatibus: That is, Let the Donatists', if they can show their Church, not in the speeches and rumours of the men of Africa, not in the council of their bishops, not in the discourses of any disputers whatsoever, nor in lying signs and miracles, because we are forewarned and forearmed against these: but in the prescript of the law, in the predictions of the prophets, in the verses of the Psalms, in the voice of the shepherd himself, in the preachings and works of the Evangelists, that is, in all the canonical authorities of the holy scriptures. Now as the Donatists' rejected that which is the true and infallible note of the Church, and depended upon the speeches of the men of Africa, upon the Council of their Bishops, and upon lying signs and miracles: so do you as the writings of sundry Popish f Hosius Cardinal, in Confess, Petroc●uiens cap 21, in explicat Symboli. Lindanus in Pa●oplia lib, 4, cap, 83, So●us contra wit tenbergens, in c, de eccles, Caverus de notis eccles. Canisius in suo Catechism. in tract de precept eccles, Bellarm, de notis eccles, lib, 4, c, 3, Stapleton. lib, 1, de princip, doctrine, cap, 19, & Horantius contra calvini justitut. lib. 6, cap, 6, writers give sufficient testimony. 3 The Donatists' thought that a man aught not to be forced to the truth, as appeareth by these words of Saint Austen to g Aug, epist, 5, h Aug, lib, 2. contra Petil, c, 78, Vincentius: Thinkest thou, that no man aught to be forced to righteousness, whereas thou readest that the Master said to his servants: compel all that you find to come in. The same father also testifieth, that Petilian another Donatist, cried out thus: b jesus Christus ita fidem venerat facere, non ut cogeret homines, sed potius invitaret. Quod sicogiper legem aliquam vel ad bonalicuisset, vosipsi miseri a nobis ad fidem purissimam cogi debuistis. Sed absit, absit a nostra conscientia, ut ad nostram fidem iliquem compellamus: That is, jesus Christ came so to work faith, not that he might compel men, but rather invite them. But if it were lawful that any should by the law be compelled, yea even unto, good things, you wretches aught to be compelled by us, to the most pure faith: but far be it, far be it from our consciences, that we should compel men unto our faith. This frantic error of the Donatists', have some of your Popish Doctors lately revived and renewed with fresh and new colours. i D. Hill in his Quartron of reasons, of Catholic religion. page, 181, If your service (saith one of them) were good and godly indeed, and the very true service of God, etc. yet are you not to request me, much less urge me to go to your service. Again, k Page, 182. greatly do you offend GOD there in England, in forcing people to go to the CHURCH, contrary to their conscience. 4 The Donatists', albeit they in words professed meakenesse, and said, that they would use no compulsions in matters of religion: yet would they have used compulsion, had they been able to have done it. l August, contra Crese, lib, 4, c, 5● Hoc modo et miluus, saith Saint Austen, cum pullos rapere tertitus non potuer t, columbum se nominet: That is, after the same sort, the Kite; when he is not able to snatch away the chickens, may name himself a dove. So you profess the meekness of doves, because you are not able to snatch away the chickens: I mean, that you would use compelling means, to bring us to your Romish faith, if power were not wanting in you. We are well enough acquainted with the furious rigour and violence, that the Pope's agents used in this Land, in the days of Queen Mary: with their m Read the, 11 book of the Acts and monuments. imprisoning, chaining, scourging, scorching and burning of old, young men, women; learned, and unlearned. O quot Neronis, quot Domitiani, quot Commods, quot Bossiani, quot immites Dionisy hanc terram peragravere? 5 The Donatists' (as Saint n August. cotra, epist, Parmen, lib, 1, c, 7, et, lib, 2 c, 9, et, contra, 2, Gaudentij, epist, lib, 2, c, 11 et, c, 26, et contra Crescon, lib, 3, c, 51, et, lib 8, c, 5● contra literas Petil● lib, 2, c, 9● et epist, 50, 48, 166, Austen testifieth in sundry places of his writings) held, that Christian Princes aught not to meddle with men and matters ecclesiastical; so do o Bellarm, de Clericis, c, 28, ● de Pontifice, Rom lib, 1, cap, 7, et, Rhemist, in Heb. 13, 17, in Rom, 13, sect, 5, in 1, cor 14. 16, you. 6 The Donatists' p vivebant, ut, latrones, honorabantur ut, martyrs, Aug. epist, 68, lived as the eves, and were honoured as Martyrs: so do you honour Millions as Martyrs, which died for conspiracies, treacheries, idolatries, and other such like capital crimes: q See the Catholics Supplication, exhibited to the King at his first entry into this Realm. Our religion (say you) is sealed with the blood of Millions of Martyrs. The Recusant. All this which you say, will not move me to forsake my religion: for herein was I baptised, herein have I hitherto lived, and herein will I die. The Minister. You are much like the heretic Eutiches, who being required by the ancient fathers assembled in the Council of Chalcedon, to join with them in the profession of the apostolic faith: when he was not able to answer such arguments as were objected against his recusancy, pretended his baptism, and said: r Council, chalced Act. 1, Sic aprogenitoribus meis accepi, et credidi: in hac fide baptizatus sum, & signatus: et vs que ad hunc diem in ea vixi, et in eaopto mori: that is, thus have I received of my forefathers, and thus have I beeleeved: in this faith was I baptised, and signed: and in the same have I lived until this day; and in the same I wish to die. But tell me I pray you, did you in baptism profess the Romish Religion? were you baptised in the name of your holy father the Pope, or in the name of the father, of the son, and of the holy Ghost? and do you stand bound in baptism to yield faith and obedience to any person, save to God only, the ordainer of the sacrament of baptism? Did the Pope, or any of his polshorne Priests baptize you? Not l August contra. Petil, lib, 3 6, 49 it is Christ that baptizeth, as Saint Austen hath well observed And (to use Saint Chrysostom's words) t Chrysost. in Mat. bomil, 51 It was not the Priest that Baptized thee: it was God himself that held thine head. Thy baptism therefore bindeth thee, not to the Bishop or Church of Rome, but to the will and precepts of God, who held thine head, and in whose name thou was baptised. The Recusant. Well, have you observed any other semblances betwixt us and the Euticheans. The Minister. Yes, the Euticheans v Vide Aug, de haeres. c. 92. denied, that Christ after the union of the two natures, had a true body; but (as Leo signifieth) x Leo, de ieiu●i● 7, miens, serm, 6, a body without shape, dimensions or circumscriptions: so do you hold, that Christ's body in the sacrament is without all shape, and dimensions, that may be perceived. 2 The Euticheans said, that Christ was whole both in heaven and earth, as appeareth by Vigilius his speech against them: y V gellius lib, 4 cotra Eutich, ● 4, the flesh of Christ when it was on earth, surely was not in heaven, and now because it is in heaven, certainly it is not on earth. Now your transubstantiation bringeth in this Euticheanisme: for you hold that the body of Christ is both in heaven and earth at one time; Yea, on as many altars, and in as many places, as the sacrament is. 3 The heretic Eutiches, although the Scriptures were against him; yet did, he bear the world in hand, that they were on his side. z Concil. Chalced, 4. Tell me (quoth he, jesting with them that reasoned with him) in what scripture lie the two natures? So although your religion be repugnant to the sacred Scriptures, yet you blush not to avouch that a See the Catholics Supplication, before alleged, it is agreeable to the sacred text of God's word and Gospel. 4 Carisius, Eutiches his follower boasted, that the ancient fathers ' were on his side, when as indeed they were against him; b Concil. Chalced, act, 4. Ego (saith he) secundum expositionem trecentorum octodecim paetrum sis credo: thus do I believe according to the three hundred and eighteen fathers. So do you make great brags, that all antiquity is on your side, and that your c See the Catholics Supplication. religion was believed by all primitive Pastors, established by all ecumenical Counsels, and upheld by all ancient Doctors. But I hope to make it more than manifest before I leave you, that it is indeed the common sewer of heresies. The Recusant. Wherein do we agreed with the Eunomij, Ethnophronians and Euphemites? The Minister. Eunomius taught, that so a man were of his faith and religion, it skilled not greatly what sins he committed: d Aug, de haeres, cap, 54, fertur atiam (saith Saint Austen) usque adeo fuisse bonis moribus inimicus, ut asseveraret, quod nihil cuiquam obesset quorum libet perpetratio, ac perseverantia pec catorum, sihuius, quae ab illo docebatur, fidei particeps esset. To this heresy of Eunomius subscribeth Cardinal Bellarmine: for he teacheth, that so a man adhere to the Church of Rome, and profess outwardly this Roman religion, it skilleth not whether he have any inward virtues, or no. His words are these. e Bellarm, de eccies, milit, cap, 2, This is the difference between all other opinions and ours: that all other require inward virtues, to make one a member in the Church, and therefore they make the true Church invisible: but we although we believe, that there are to be found in the Church all virtues, faith hope, and charity: yet that one may be said in any sort to be a member of the true Church, whereo f Damascen, de haeres 6. the Scripture speaketh, we do not think that an inward Virtue is required, but only an outward profession of faith, and fellowship of Sacraments. The Ethnophronians fobserued divers heathenish customs: so do you, as hereafter (God willing) shallbe showed at large. The Euphemitae would needs (as g Epiphan, haeres, 80. Epiphanius reporteth) be called Martyriani, because of the multitude of their supposed martyrs: the like conceit have you of yourselves; otherwise you would not brag of your Millions of Martyrs, and honour every traitor as a Martyr, as you usually do. The Recusant. wherein do we resemble the Gnosimachis and Hemerobaptists? The Minister. The Gnosimachis held, that h Damascen do haeres, Vulgar Christians were not to study the Scriptures, so do i Navarius in Enchirid, et, Hosius, lib, 3, de authorit art scripturae. you. The Hemerobaptists were k Isidor. Etymol, lib. 8, cap, de haeres, judaeorum et Epiphan, de haeres, 17, ante Christum. reputed heretics, because of their continual washings: so may you be reputed, because you use to sprinkle yourselves with holiwater. 2 The l Epiphan de haeres, 17. ante, Christum, Hemerobaptists thought they were cleansed from their sins by these their washings: so do you, as hereafter (God willing) shall be plainly showed. The Recusant. Wherein do we agreed with the heretics, which Saint m Aug, de haeres. cap, 47, Austen calleth Hierarchitae, and n Isidor, Etymol, lib, 18, cap, de haeres, Christien. Isidore Heraclitae? The Minister. They held (as the same o Ibid. fathers testify) that children, dying young, shall not possess the kingdom of heaven: so do p 〈◊〉, Tridet. sess, 7 ca●▪ 7▪ Becalm, lib, 1, de baptism, c. 4. Position. Ingolsta ai ens de purgat et. George D●di● in his instruction of Christian religren pag 13. you exclude all children out of the kingdom of heaven that die unbaptized, and do place them in limbo puerorum. The Recusant. Wherein do we join with the Herodians. The Minister. The Herodians q ●●● Damasken de ●ares, gave the name and honour of Christ to Herode: so do you give the names and honour of Christ to the Pope; allowing these words of Bernard to Eugenius: r Bernard, ad Eugenium. unctione Christuses, s Rog. Cup●rs de 〈◊〉, et Christu● domini: That is, Thou art by unction Christ, and art therefore to be called the Lords Christ. Yea, you say, that the Pope is, t 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉, 22. aeque ac Christus deus, ens secundae intentionis, compositum ex deo et homine, That is, a God as well as Christ, a being of the second intention, compounded of God and man: and that v ● Cu●●●s de 〈◊〉, p. ●28. 〈◊〉 6 ● 〈◊〉 regum et Dominus Domi 〈◊〉. Christ and the Pope in the Church are unum et idem caput, one and the same head. But to speak particularly of Christ offices, you give to the Pope, Christ's Kingly, Priestly, and Prophetical offices. To begin with his Kingly office, the Pope is (say your blasphemous writers) 1 The * R. Cu●ers de 〈◊〉▪ pag 43. ●t. Paul. 4, ad D●cem 〈◊〉, in Pulla King of Kings▪ and Lord of Lords, z 〈◊〉 et 〈…〉, 6. the Lion of the Tribe of juda, a 〈◊〉. lib, 1, sect. 7, to whom al● power is given in heaven and earth. As for his priesthood, this also you give to the Pope: calling him b Distinct▪ 40, 〈◊〉 Papa●● R, Cupers page, 29 Andreas in cap. quanto de traslat et Pa ●●m. ●ap, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Pontificem optimum maximum, and that great Priest according to the order of Melchisedeke. And as touching his Prophetical office, what do c Amicius epist ded●●at●ad, Greg, 13. you not oppugn it? for you give unto the Pope supreme authority, in interpreting of the Scriptures, accounted him the supreme judge in controversies of religion, and prefer his judgement before the judgement of the whole world. d Cuperi de eccles page 11. Papae sententia (saith one of your writers) totius or●is placito prefertur. e joharmes de Turre cremate lib, 3. cap. 64. Et si totus mundus (saith another) sentiret contra Papam, videtur quod sententiae Papae standum esset. Yea, you make old wives fables, of equal authority to the words of the Gospel, and command, that their traditions, be honoured f Council, Trident sess. 4, paripietatis affectu ac reverentiae, with the like affection of pi●ty and reverence. The Recusant. Wherein resemble we the Heracleonites? The Minister. The Heracleonites did g August de haeres, cap, ●6, et Epiphia▪ haeres▪ 6 anoint their followers departing out of this life, and gave them a kind of i Vide Bellarm. de sacram, extreme. unct., cap, 10, et Compend theol, lib▪ 6 c, 35. extreme unction: so have you devised a sacrament of h Council, Tria●nt sess. 14. can, 1▪ Bellarm, de sacram. extreme, unct., cap, 2, Catech, ●ō, p, 495 Gregor. de Valentia, lib, de numero sacram no●ae legis cap, 1, Canisius de sacram sect, 5, Henricus Henriques lib, de Sacram▪ cap▪ 7. extreme unction; wherein you anoint the five senses of the sick party; his eyes, ears, nostrils, mouth and hands; also theireynes which is the seat of concupiscence, and his feet which are the instruments of execution. 2 The Heracleonites used certain k Aug. de haeres▪ c, 16, et, Epipha●. prayers, or rather magical enchantments over the sick: so do you. 3 The prayers which the Heracleonites used over the sick, were in a * Hebraicisverbis, August de haeres, c, 16. strange language; so are yours. 4 The Heracleonites grounded their anointings and prayers, upon the first Chapter of Saint james; so do you, as appeareth by these words of Canisius; m Canisius de Sacram, extreme. unctionis, huic sacramento testimonium long clarissimum praebet jacobus Apostolus, cum in haec verba scribit: infirmatur quis in vobis? inducat presbyteros Ecclesiae, et orent super eum, ungentes eum oleo in nomine domini. How sandy a foundation this is, I hope to make it appear most evidently, in an other place. I will now but touch and go. 5 The Heracleonites, ascribed remission of sins, to their prayers, charms and anointings, as these words of Saint Austen give sufficient witness, o Aug, de haeres, cap, 16. feruntur morientes suos novo modo, quasi redimere, id est per olcum, balsamum, et aquam, & invocationes, quas hebraicis verbis dieunt super capita corum. The same power ascribe you to your prayers over the sick, and anointings: for you affirm, that this unction p Canisius de Sacram, extreme. unct., et Catech Rom, page 500 giveth health to the body, q Pellarm, de, Sacram, extreme. unct., ca, 7, et, 8. Gregor, de valent, lib, 1. de, numero Sacram, c, 1, Council, Trident, lesle 4, c, 4, Catech, Rom, page 505 et Canisius, de sacram extren unct., sect, 1, wipeth away the relics of sin, and r Catechism, roman, pag, 507, causeth the Devil to flee from them. The Recusant. Wherein do we agreed with the Helcesees, and Halzaits? The Minister. The s Theod, hae●ericarum fabular lib, 2, cap, de Helcesees. Helcesees, made a twofould Christ: the one above in Heaven; the other below here upon the earth: so do you feign a twofould Christ, the one above in heaven which is visible, palpable, and circumscriptible: the other in the sacrament, which is invisible, incircumscriptible. etc. 1 The t Epipha haeres, 19, ante Christum Helzaits prayed in a tongue not understood of the common people: so do you. 2 The v Epiphan, Ibid. Helzaites worshipped the relics of Saints: so do you. The Recusant. Wherein do we join with the Meletians, and Messalians? The Minister. The * Theod, haeres fabul, lib, 4. Meletians used mavy sacring bells in their service: so do you. Yea, ye are worse than the Meletians: for the Meletians did not baptise bells. But ye a Vide Heshus● de er●o●●bus pontif., loc, 16, baptise bells, and ascribe unto them a spiritual power against evil spirits, thunder, lightning, etc. b Vide fox, martyrolog, p. 865. col, 1, ed. This was one of the grievances which the Princes of Germany complained of, in the assembly at Noremberg, that the Suffragans exacted of the people such great sums of money, for baptizing of bells. Yea, we read, that Pope john the fourteenth, c At the coronation of the Emperor Otho. baptised the great bell of the Church of Laterane, and gave unto it his own name. ● The d August de haeres, cap, 57 Massalians did mumble over their prayers with their lips, having their hearts far from God; and believed that they were heard for their much babbling: so do you mumble over your prayers, upon a pair of beads, and rehearse a number of ave Maries, Pater nosters, and Creeds. To give an instance in your e Printed, anno Dom▪ 15 83, jesus Psalter, in the Preface of that book; You give us to understand, that there be three kinds of Psalters. The first is David's Psalter, which containeth thrice fifty Psalms: The second, our LADY'S Psalter, and containeth thrice fifty AVE MARIES: and the third is jesus Psalter, containing fifteen petitions, which being ten times repeated, do make in all thrice fifty. And just suitable hereunto there are fifteen petitions, where jesus jesus, jesus mercy, is ten times word for word to be repeated, in the beginning of them. And if you fail in the account, your denotion is imperfect. 2 The f Theod. diuin, decret. cap, de baptismo, Messalians affirmed, that baptism was only avaieleable to cut away former sins: so do g Council, Trident sess, 7, ●an, 10 Petrus Lomb. lib 4, dist, 14, Rhemist, Heb, 10▪ sects ●. you affirm, that baptism doth only purge and respect sins past, and that sins commttted after baptism are to be done away by other remedies. The Recusant. Wherein do weresemble the Marcosij? The Minister. The h Irenaeus lib, ●, c, 18. Marcosij did baptise in an unknown language: so do you baptise in a language not understood of the vulgar sort▪ 2 The i Epiphan. haeres, ●4. Marcosij did anoint those, whom they baptised, with Chrism, and Opobalsamum: so do you use anointing in k Hugo, lib. 2, de Sacram, part▪ 6. ●t Ga●r●▪ ●i●●. lib ●▪ distinct, 6, quaest, 3. baptism, and in l Catech▪ Rom, p, 324. confirmation. 3 The m I●enaeus lib ●, adverse haeres, ●a●, 15. Marcosij accounted themselves perfect: so do your orders of religion accounted themselves, to be in the state of perfection. 4 The n Iren lib. 1, ●▪ 1●, Marcosij alleged a multitude of Apocryphal writings: so do you. 5 o Epiphan. haeres ●4. Marcus the founder of their faction, went about to make his followers believe, that he could transubstantiate wine into blood, in the Sacrament: so do you. The Recusant. Wherein do we agreed with the Marcionites? The Minister. 1 The p Epip●an haeres. 42. Marcionites gave woman power to baptise: so do q Can. Adijcim●● 10, quaest. 1, et. ●an mul●er. deconsecrat dist, 4, Bellarm, de baptism. cap. 7. you. 2 The r Epiphan, haeres 42. Marcionites separated married folks, under the pretence of Religion: so do s Bellarm. c, 21, propos●t, you. 3 t Epiphan. Haeres 42 Martion, though he extolled virginity; yet lived he unchastely: so do your popish Priests. 4 v Epiphan. Haeres. 42. et Tertull lib 4 contra Martion. Martion, taught that divers men's souls were delivered out of hell, by Christ's descending thither: so do * Canisius de fid: et symbolo sect. 1● you teach, that the souls of the patriarchs were in hell before Christ's descension: and that they were thence delivered thereby. Rhemist. in Act▪ 2 sect 12, e● George Douly Priest in his plain instruction page. 13. The Recusant. Wherein do we join with the Manichees? The Minister. The y August. de cant●●o no●o cap. 6. Manichees taught that Christ had not a true body, but an imaginary body: so do you, when you affirm, that the body of Christ lieth hidden in the Eucharist under the form of bread, which cannot be, unless his body be a fantastical body: for every true body is visible, palpable, and circumscriptible; & hath the dimensions of height, breadth, and depth. 2 The z Leo serm, 4. de, quadragesima ●t Gelasius apud Gratia, in part. 3 de conse●rat, distinct 2. ●. ●elatum est, e●c comperimus. Manichees abstained from the Cup of the Lords Supper, and received one kind only: so do a Concil. Trident sess, 21 ●c●n 2. Rhemist. in johan 6 sect. 11. Bellarm lib. 4, de eucharist, cap, 20, you. 3 The b Aug epist. 74, Manichees condemned marriage in their Priests, whom for their excellency they called electos; so do c 〈◊〉, 28, c, nu●●um faferek s●●d●aconum. et Catech, Rom, page. 526. you in yours. 4 The d August de moribus Manich, ●ib, 2, c, 13, Manichees although they abstained from flesh in their feasts, yet used they divers other dainty meats: so you, albeit you are c Distinct, 4, can, Denique, enjoined to forbears flesh, yet may you with the f Fide ●rasmum in Colloquio militi● et Carthusian●. Carthusian Monks, feed on most dainty fish, and power in wine withal. The Recusant: Wherein are we like the Monothelites? The Minister. The Monothelites taught, that there was but one will in Christ: so did Honorius the Pope, as appeareth by this his speech: g Council Constant, 6, act, 12, unam fatemur voluntatem domini nostri jesu Christi: 2 Polychronius a Monothelite heretic, went about to confirm his false doctrine by visions and apparitions: and affirmed before the whole h Council, Constant, 6, act, 15, Council of Constantinople, that a certain beautiful young man appeared unto him, and taught him to say, that there was but one will in Christ. Many such like apparitions produce you for the confirmation of such doctrines as cannot be confirmed by the scripture: as namely, your blasphemous doctrine of transubstantiation, and adoration of your breaden God, your superstitious prayers for the dead, your heathenish doctrine of Purgatory, and other such like doctrines of Devils, and lies of Antichrist. The Recusant. What agreement is there between us and Montanus. The Minister. i Epiphan, ●ae●●s, 48, Montanus, albeit he rejected not the sacred scriptures; yet disputed, he that they did not contain all things necessary to salvation: so albeit you reject not the scriptures, yet dispute k Bellarm, de verbo Dei, lib, 4, c, 4, et, 5, Stapleton, in prefat, in Ret●ct, p●in, 〈◊〉 tr●●. A●bertus Pig●i●● d● eccles Hierarch, l●, 1, ● 2 〈◊〉 Ca●●●●●cor, theol, lib, 3, fol, 98, L●●danus lib▪ ●● Andradiu● Payva lib, 2, you, that they contain not all things necessary to be known concerning faith and manners. 2 l Tertul, lib, de anima. Montanus taught, that small sins are to be purged after this life; and that souls shall not departed out of prison, until they have paid the uttermost farthing: so do m Council, Trident. sess, 9 Po●itiones Iugo●stadiens▪ de Purgat. Ecclus' in positionibus anni. 1519, 〈◊〉, 6 Petrus de Soto in Confess, Cathol de Purgat, Bellarm, de Purgat, lib, 1. c. 1, et lib, 2 c, 6. et Rhemist, in, Math, 12, sect, 6. you teach, that there is a certain infernal place in the earth, called Purgatory, in the which, as in a prison house, the souls which are not fully purged in this life, are there to be cleansed and purged by fire, before they can be received into heaven. 3 n Tertul, de ●oron●, 〈◊〉 Montanus taught, that prayers, oblations and sacrifices should be offered for souls departed: so do o Co●cil, Trident, sess, 9, Cat●●●. Rom. pag 127. you teach, that the souls tormented in Purgatory, do find great ease by the prayers, sacrifices, fasts, indulgences, and also by the alms of the living. 4 p etrus de Soto. in Confess. Cathol. de Purgat, Bellarm, ●ib. 2, de Purgat, c. 15, ●● 18, et Rhemist in Thessalo, 2 sect▪ 19 ᵖ Aug, de haeres, cap, 26 The Montanists held the prophecies of Prisca and Maximillain great reverence: so do you the lying Legends of Catharine, Brigit, and of others. 5 The q Tertul. de, Corona mili●es Montanists boasted of their Martyrs; so do you, as hath already been showed. The Recusant. Wherein do we resemble the Nudipedales, Nestorians, novatians and Nicolaites? The Minister. You resemble the Aug▪ de haeres, cap, 8, Nudipedales in taking it for an act meritorious, to go barefoot in pilgrimages and processions. You resemble the Nestorians, in covering yourselves s Theodoret. with a cloak and colour of the right faith. You resemble the novatians in intituling your congregations by the name of the Catholic Church: Cyprian. 〈◊〉▪ 73▪ 〈◊〉▪ jubanum Novatianus enim (as saith Cyprian) simiarum more, quae cum homines non sint, homines tamen imitantur, vult ecclesia catholicae authoritatem sibi et veritatem vendicare, quando ipse in ecclesia non sit, imo adhuc in super contra ecclesiam rebellis et hostis extiterit: That is, For the Novatian Heretic, after the manner of apes, which being not men, yet do counterfeit men, and do covet to seem men, will challenge to himself the authority of the Catholic Church, and the truth; whereas he himself is not in the Church, but contrariwise a rebel against the Church. You resemble the August, de haeres, cap, 5. Nicolaites, in holding it to be lawful to commit adultery, Et habere faeminam semel in mense ad expurgandos renes: si non caste, tamen caute. The Recusant. Wherein do we come near the Nazarites? The Minister. The August, de haeres, cap, 9, Nazarites mingled jewish ceremonies with Christian religion: so do you as appeareth by sundry particulars. To insist in a few of them, you y Vide missal Rom, consecrated every year, a paschal Lamb after the fashion of the jews, as is apparent in the end of your * According to the use of Sarun. Mass, where there is annexed the form of consecating the Paschall Lamb, with this prayer: Vouchsafe to sanctify this Paschal Lamb, that as many of thy people as do eat thereof, may be replenished with all heavenly benediction▪ etc. And I have been credibly informed, that there were certain Monks near our University of x At Barnewell Abbey by Cambridge. Cambridg, that did use once a year to roast a Lamb whole, and so to eat it with herbs. 2 You borrow your jubilee from the jews, as both z Extra●▪ commun. lib, 5, tit, 9 Clement, 6. Clement the 6▪ acknowledgeth in his Bull, & others of your fat Bulls of Basan. 3 Your a Decret. part 3 distinct▪ 4▪ c, 127 sprinckeling of holy water, your b Distinct, 4, cap, 11. hallowing of Churches, your c Decret▪ Gregor, lib, 1, tit, 15 cap, 1, gloss. anointing of men and women, and many other d Galat, 4, 9 impudent and beggarly rudiments, are begged of the jews. The e ●piphan▪ de haeres, Nazar. Nazarites also bragged of their revelations and miracles: so do f Bellarm▪ de notis Ecceles. lib. 4, cap, 3, et Cunerus in lib▪ de notis eccles. you. The Recusant. wherein do we join with the Heretics called Osseni? The Minister. The g Epiphan, haeres. 19 ante Christum. Osseni affirmed, that prayer should not be used in a known language: so do you affirm, that the service of the Church, should not be celebrated, in the vulgar tongue, but in the Latin only. And this tongu● your setter forth of the Complutense edition, doth so much exalt, as that he is not ashamed blasphemously to h In Praefat. writ, that he hath placed the Latin text between the Hebrew and and Greek, as CHRIST between two thieves▪ The Recusant Wherein do we join with the Priscillians? The Minister. The Priscillians separated i Viros a nolentibus faeminis, et faeminas a noletibus viris▪ August▪ de haees, cap▪ 70. husbands from their wives, and wives from their husbands: so do you separate married folks, and place them in monastical places. Yea, one of your chief k Bella●m▪ de matrim, cap, 21 Propos. 1. writers setteth down this proposition: That a man or wife before marriage consummate, may enter into a Monastery, albeit the other party be most unwilling. 2 The l Nihil scripturarum canonicarum repudiant, simul cum Apochryphys legentes omnia, et in authoritate sumentes, etc. Aug. de haeres▪ cap▪ 70. Priscillians boasted that the sacred scriptures were on their side, so do you. m 〈◊〉 in his Quaitron of Reasons▪ p▪ 39 We do not teach (saith one of your Doctors) any doctrine, but such as is derived out of the holy Bible. 3 The n Sed in suos sensus vertentes, quicquid in sactis libris est, quod corum eve●tat errorem▪ Aug. in loco supra c●tato. Priscillians wrested the scriptures from their true sense and meaning, and gave unto them such expositions, as served for the confirmation of their errors: so do you wring the text till you make it bleed, and so press the two dugs of the scriptures, the old and new testament, that (to use the words of an ancient * Volusia▪ epist. i▪ add Nichol▪ 1, Scriptutarum mammillas dum durius presserunt, sangu●●●m pro lacto biberunt. writer) instead of milk you drink nothing but blood. 4 o August▪ Ibid. The Priscillians made the books Apocryphal of equal authority with the Canonical: so do p Council, Trident▪ ●●ss. 4 you. 5 The q Aug, de haeres cap▪ 70 Priscillians made no account to forswear themselves, so that thereby they might cloak their filthiness and villainies: no more do you, as appeareth by these words of your Rhemists r Remist▪ in Act, 23 If thou be put to an oath, to accuse Catholics for serving God, or to utter any thing to God's s The Papists accounted all the Magistrates in this Realm, for God's enemies. enemies, thou cughtest first to refuse such unlawful oaths. But if thou have not constancy and courage so to do: yet know thou, that such oaths bind not in conscience, and in the law of God. Yea, * Tollet, lib. 4, Instit. Sacerd▪ cap, 21. et 22 cum index (saith one of your Romish Cardinals) non iuridice petit juramentum, vel contra justitiam, licet uti aequive. catione secundum mentem suam contra mentem judicis, utputa▪ quaerenti fecistene illua? respond at non feci▪ intelligendo intra se non hoc tempore, aut ut uarrem tibi, aut aliquid fimile: That is, when a judge demandeth an oath unjustly, then may the examinate use an equivocation according to his own mind, contrary to the judges mind: as for example, being thus demanded; didst thou that fact? He may answer; I did it not. Understanding secretly in his mind: not at this time, or to tell it to thee, or some such like shift. Lo here, your Rhemish and Romish doctors, (to use Saint Austin's words) t Aug. de haeres▪ cap. de Priscillians. Propter occultandas contaminationes et turpitudines suas, habent in suis dog mati bus & haecverka: jura, periura, secret●m prodere noli. And answeareable to this their doctrine, is the practice of your Seminary Priests: for they when they are brought before a judge, or justice, do (I warrant you▪ commonly answer by the aforesaid equivocation. And it is indeed no marvel: for one of your Saints did the same, as witnesleth Navarrus in these words * Navar. Tom▪ 5, cap. ●2. Sanctus Franciscus rogatus qua perrexisset quidam homicida, qui juxta cum transier at; manus per manicas immitt ens, respondit non transijsse illac; intelligens, non transijsse per illas manicas: Saint Francis, being asked which way a certain mur therer did run, which had passed by him, putting his hands into his sleeves, answered that he went not that way; meaning that he went not through his slevees. And the like answer (I fear) will you, and many of your fellow Recusants make, if you be demanded, which way any of the late traitors went, that are not yet apprehended. But let us come to the Pepuzians. The Recusant. Wherein do weresemble them. The Minister. The v August, de haetel, cap▪ 27. Pepuzians held it lawful, for women to enter into the ministry, & to administer the sacraments: the same power give x Bellarm, de Ba●t●s● sin cap. 7. you, not only to laymen and women, but to pagan, that are not baptised themselves. 2 The y August de 〈◊〉 cap▪ 27 Pepuzians honoured their Town Pepuza, and called it Jerusalem: so do you honour the City of Rome, and callit the holy City, and the seat of the Pope's holiness. But you are greatly deceived: for as jerusalem was first an z Mat. 27. 53 holy City, and afterwards became a a killer of the Prophets, and a Math. 23. 37 stoner of them that were sent to her: so Rome, albeit it was once a b Rom▪ 1. ● faithful City; yet is she now c Reu●l, 1. 6, drunken with the blood of Saints, & with the blood of the Martyrs of jesus. Yea she is become such a sink & sewer of all wickedness, as that your own Friars ●rie out: d Mantua●us in ●●log, ●. Heu, Romae nunc sola pecunia regnat; exilium virtus patitur: e Idem faster▪ lib▪ 2. de Ca●nispriuij cōsu●tud. Vrbs est iam tota Lupanar: that is, Alas at Rome now nothing but money doth reign: virtue is quite banished: the whole City is become a Stews. 3. The s Aug. de haeres cap▪ 27. Pepuzians bragged, that in the said Pepuza, there once appeared Christ in the form of a woman: so may you brag, that in the said City of Rome, there once appeared Christ (for sog you call the Pope) in the shape of a woman: for there was once a woman Pope, as sundry h Platina in johan 8, ●acob Bergom. lib, de clatis muheribu●. Sabellicus Ennead 9 li●, 1 Leomcus Chal co●dyl h●, 6, Volateran, lib, 22 Ravisius ●●x●ot in off●cina, ● faeminae 〈◊〉 vi●ilem 〈◊〉 Mantu 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 lib, 3. ●ob●●tus ●a●●es 〈…〉 Roman ●um pontif.: Rodrigo Sanches in don Alonso 3, Pero Mexia●● silva vat●●●um ●ect, johannes de Pineda part 3, lib, 1●. cap 23. johannes de▪ Parisijs lib. ●● potesta●e Regia et Papali. Balam Monachus in lib. contra pri natum Pap●. Anton●nus 〈◊〉 ●. 〈◊〉 6. Alonso, Venero in Enchyrid, et Theodericus Nie●●●s. lib. writers testify, who in a most solemn procession, as she went with accustomed pomp to visit Saint john de Laterane, was openly delivered of child between the Church of Saint Clement, and the Theatre which is now called Coliseo, to the wonderful amazement of those that were present. And to prevent the like mishap ever after, there was immediately provided i Sabellicus 〈◊〉 9 lib, 3. Marmorea sella circum medium inanis: qua novus Pontifex continuo ab eius creatione residet, ut sedentis genitalia ab ultimo diacono attrectentur, a chair of The Recusant. What need you English this? I pray you leave this matter and come to some other particular. The Minister. It is no marvel that you are loath to hear any more of this matter: for it is a great blot to your succession, that a whore sat sometimes in Saint Peter's chair. But proceed to the Pelagians. The Recusant. Wherein do we agreed with them? The Minister. The k Council▪ milevitan c. 1 Council Aphrycan, c, 76 ●t Aug. de haeres▪ cap, 88 August, Stenchus in Annot. in Gen. a. et Bel Pelagians held, that Adam, if he had not sinned, should have died, and that he died not by reason of his transgression, but by the condition of nature: so some of l arm. de gratia primi hominis cap. 9 your Doctors hold that Adam's body was by nature created mortal, and that sin was not the cause of the mortality thereof. 2 The m Aug, de haeres, cap, 88▪ et Council▪ milevit▪ c. 2, et Concil. Aphrycan, c. 77 ᵘ Pighius in lib. de centrovers▪ in controuers, de peccato origi. et Bellarm▪ de amissione gratiae cap. 15. Pelagians held, that Children are conceived and borne without original sin: so do ⁿ you hold, that the Virgin Marie was conceived▪ without original sin, 3 The o Aug. contra▪ julian. lib, 6. c. 6 Pelagians taught that concupiscence is sanctified by baptism; and that it being evil before baptism, doth afterwards begin not to be evil: so do you teach, that concupiscence in the regenerate is p Concil. trident▪ ●est, 5, ●. 5 Censur. Colon pag, 46, et 54, et Catechi●▪ Rom. in precept. 9 no sin, but indeed q Franciscanus quidam coloniens, apud M●lan. part, 4. in disput. theol. a good thing: not considering that of Saint Austen: r Aug, contra julian. lib. 5, c, 3 concupiscentia ●arnis, adversus quam bonus concupiscit spiritus, et peccatum est, et poena peccati, et causa peccati. The concupiscence o● the flesh, against which, the good spirit lusteth, is both sin, and the punishment of sin, and the cause of sin. 4 The Pelagians said, that the Gentiles might by Philosophy know God, and be saved; so do s Catharinus in Comment in, 1 Tim, 4. et Andradius lib. 3, Orthodox, Explicat. you. 5 The t August, contra▪ julian lib, 4. c, 3. Pelagians would not subscribe to this doctrine of the ancient v Concil. Arausican▪ can, 22, et ●0 Cyprian, lib, 2 epist, 2 Hie●ō, in Gal. 3 Greg, lib, 2, moral, cap, 15 August de nuptijs et concupis. lib. 1, cap, 3 fathers, viz: that all the works of unbelievers are sins. No more will you; for it is your resolute sentence, x Vide Alex. de Hales part, 3, quest. 66, Thom, Aquin▪ in 1, second, quaest. 109 Bonavent. in 2. Sent. distinct. 2●. Bellarm▪ de great. et libero. Arb. lib. 5 cap 4, ●, et 9 Gabriel Biel. 3, Sentent-dist. 27, et Ruard Tapper de great. et libero, Arb. pag. 291. that a man pressed with no temptation, may without faith, by the special help of God, and without it, by his own strength so do that which is morally good, that no sin at all be committed therein. 6 The Pelagians, define that only to be sin, y Quod libera voluntate, et a sciente committitur. which is done voluntarily, and upon knowledge: so do some of your Popish z Andradius lib, 3, Orthodox. Explicat. doctors. 7 The a August, lib, 1, de great▪ cap, 18. Pelagians held, that a man is endued with free-will, before he hath received the grace of God: so do you all jointly. 8 The Pelagians taught, that man's free-will b Aliquantum ad non pecca●d ●m valet. somewhat availeth to 'cause him not to sin: for which cause Saint Austen speaketh thus of Pelagius the Archhereticke: c Augustine epist. 106. Sometimes he poised the power of the will with such equal weights in even balance, that he might determine how it availed somewhat to 'cause us not to sin: which if it be so, there is no place reserved for the help of grace, without which, we see free-will hath no force at all, in causing us not to sin. To this haerisie of Pelagius subscribeth ᵈ Tapper, Ruard, Tapper de libero Atb. p. 294, et 288 and the whole e C●●il, cried'st. S▪ 6, can, 7. Counsel of Trent. 8 Yea some of the Pelagians held, that a man by f August, de haeres, c. 88, et Innocent epist, 93 apud. August. the strength of his own free-will, may keep all the commandements of God: so do some of your g Gab●ell. Biel 3. Sent, dist, 27 et Ruard, jap. de libero, Arb. p 291. Doctors. 9 The Pelagians ascribed more to man's free-will, than they did to God's grace: so do you, when you say h Gratiae auxilia, quod effiacia sint, habent dependenter ab ar bit●j libertate, Molina de great. et libero, Arb quaest, 14, art, 1. disput, 12. Thom. Aquin. contra, Gent, lib, 3, ᶜ ●59. et Greg, deval. that the efficacy of God's grace doth depend upon the cooperation of man's william. 10 The i August. de haeres, cap, 8. Pelagians affirmed, that grace is given to the merit of our works: so say k Gabriel Biel. lib, 2, dist, 27. et Andrad lib, 6. page 507. you that to the merit of our works, is given both gratia de congrue, et condigno. 11 It was the heresy of l August, de haeres, cap, 88 Pelagians to teach; that grace is▪ not only obtained by good works, but also by them kept and augmented: with this jumpeth the determination of the Council of Trent, when it saith, Si quis dixes it institiam accept m Council, Trident, sess, 6, can. 24 non conseruari, atque etiam non augericoram deo per bona opera: sed opera ipsa fructus solummodo et signum esse instificationis adeptae, non etiamipsius augendae causam, anathema sit. 12 The n Aug, de bono Perseverant, lib 2, c, 5, et de, haeres. cap. 88 Pelagians taught, that it is not impossible for a just man, to be quite without sin in this life. And you are not far from this heresy, when you say, o Council, Trident, sess, 5, ᶜ 18 Sot in assert. Cathol. de lege. Ruud. T●p. p. 189, et Bella●m lib. 4, de Iustisi●at. cap. That a man is able in this life to perform the law of God perfectly. But we may say to you as Orosius did to that heretic Pelagius: * Thou say est, that it is not impossible that a man should be without sin. I repeat it again and often times, the man which can do this, is Christ the Son of God. Either take that name unto thee, or lay aside thy boldness, God hath given that but to one, and that is he which is chief and first borne among many brethren. 13 The Pelagians when the ancient fathers told them, that no man is perfect and void of sin, answered thus; p Aiunt ad comperationem d●● nul 'em esse percontra, Pelag. fectum Hieron ad Ctesiphont. no man is perfect in such a degree of perfection, as God is perfect. So when we tell you, that our righteousness in this life is imperfect, and such as (to use Saint Austin's words) * justitua in hao vita tanta est ut, potius constet remissione peccatorum, quam persectione virtutum. Aug, de, Civita te dei li. 19 c, 26 rather consisteth in the remission of our sins, than in the perfection of our virtues: your a unswear is this: q Ruard Tapper pag, 189 Quamvis imperfect a sit nostra justitia, eius comparatione quam in coelis habebimus, perfecta tamen est habito nostrae imbecillitatis spectu: although our righteousness be imperfect, in comparison of that which we shall have in heaven; yet it is perfect in respect of our weakness. 14 The Pelagians interpreted (as Saint r Hieron, in Ies▪ cap, 13 Hierome saith) these sentences of scripture; our justice is like a cloth, of a menstruous woman, and no man is good, Noah not one, in this sort of as if the holy Ghost had meant, that man in comparison of God is not just, or good: And the self same sleight and evasion use s jodocus Tilestanus in lib contra confess, Antuerp ens. cap, 6 de iustifiat. you. 15 The Pelagians, to prove the strength of free will, and the perfect fulfilling and accomphshing of the Law, usually objected on this wise. God hath give a sundry commandments to man, since his fall, some pertaining to the Law, some to the Gospel, as commandments to turn unto God, to believe, to repent. And all commandments are given in vain, unless there be freedom of will, to do them, or not to do them. t Aug, de great, et lib. arb, c. 4 Magnum ● liquid Palagiant (saith Saint Austen) se scire patant, quando dicunt, non iuberet dens quod sciret ab homine non posse fierr, the Pelagians think themselves cunning men, when they say, God would not command that thing, which he knoweth a man is not able to do. The self same objection useth Cardinal v Bellarm, lib, 5 de great. cap, 18 Bellarmine: not considering that these commandments, set not down what we can do, but what we should do, not our ability but our office and duty x August, de great. lib, 5, ca, 4 Ideo jubet (saith Saint Austen) aliqua, quae non possumus, ut noverimus, quid ab ipso petere debeamus: That is, God doth therefore command us to do some things that we are not able to do that we may understand, what we aught to crave of him. Saint Ambrose also is of the same mind with Saint Augustine, as appeareth by these his words: * Non ob aliud unquam datur praeceptum, nisi ut quaeratur praecipientis Ambros, epist ●4 auxilium: the precept is given for no other cause, but that the help of the precept giver may be sought. 16 y Bellarm. lib, 5 de great, c, 15 You object with the z Aug, de nature. great: cap, 67 Pelagians, that if there were not in man free-will, there should be no place left for reward or punishment: for if a man (say both they and you) do evil of necessity, he deserveth no punishment, and if he do well unwillingly, a Aug: ibid. he is worthy of no reward. We answer with Saint Austen: In recte f●ciendo ideo nullum est vin culum necessitatis, quia libert as est charitatis, quae diffusa est in cordibus nostres per spiritum sanctum: in well doing there is no bond of necessity, because freedom or liberty cometh of love, which is shed abroad in our hearts by the holy Ghost. 17 b Bellarm, de great, lib, 5, c, 14 You object also with the c Peccata caveri non possunt, peccata non font. Pelagians, that sin is either necessary or voluntary: if necessary, it cannot be avoided, and so consequently is no sin: if voluntary it may be avoided: therefore man hath free-will, and may avoid sin. We answer with Saint Austen: d Aug, contra Caelestinum de perfect, justit. Arbitrij libertas semel data est homini, sed quiapeccavit voluntas, secuta est peccantem, peccatum habendi necessitas: Man had once free will given him, but because he sinned willingly, there followed as a reward of his sin, a necessity of sinning. The Recusant. Wherein do we agreed with the heretic Prodicus? The Minister. Prodicus said, that e Licet palam et apart forn? cari, prodicus apud Clement. in Stromat, li. 3 it was lawful to commit open fornication: so say some of you. f jacobus de Valentia in ps, 18 Tam judaei, quam Saraceni & mali Christiani (confesseth one of your own side) ut detestabilem vitam suam excusent, et defendant, asserunt fornicationem simplicem esse licitam: as well Jews as Saracens, as also bad christians, to the intent to excuse and defend their wicked life, say that single fornication may be lawfully used. And Erasmus speaking of some of the best of your Roman clergy, saith thus. g Erasmus in Enchirid. mil: Christiani c. 14 bona pars eorum, quas vulgus integros, et incorruptos appellat, simplicem fornicationem, & moderatum voluptatis usum ut leave commissum, neutiquam refugiunt: a great many of them, whom the common sort taketh for good and godly men, not a whit abhor single fornication, and a sober use of pleasure, reckoning it to be but a petty fault. Yea this vile opinion was s● eager maintained by some of your side, as that the bishops assembled in the late Council of Basill were constrained to decree h Council, Basili▪ Sess, 20. that ʰ fornication should be sin. Antoninus also, the Archbishop Florence, was feign to stand up against them saying i Antoninus in Sum. part, 4, tit. 22, cap, 2, S, 3 confutatur error dicentium simplicem fornicationem non essepeccatum, hereby is confuted the error of them that say, that single fornication is no sin. The Recusant. Wherein do we resemble the Scribes and Pharisees. The Minister. The Pharisees separated themselves from the common sort of men; as more holy than they, and contemned the poor Publicans as sinners: and therefore k Fosterus in dictionar, hebraic. some learned men think, that they be called Pharisees, quasi segregati, quod vitae sanctimonia a vulgi moribus separati essent non aliter atque Monachi quos Carthusianos vocant, as separated and divided from the common sort in holiness of life, much like unto your Monks, which be called Carthusians. 2 The Scribes and Pharisees, l Mat, 23, 23 tithed Mint, and anise and cummin, and left the weightier things of the law, as judgement, and mercy, and fidelity: so do you; for you are so precise, as that you will not eat an egg in Lent; and yet will you not stick to lay your hands on the Lords anointed, and to murder the Nobles. 3 The Pharisees were m josephus lib. Antiquit, tom▪ a, lib, 17, cap, 3 astutum hominum genis, arrogans, & interdum regibus quoque infestum,) a subtle kind of men, arrogant, and sometimes enemies to kings & rulers: so are you as appeareth by your late traitorous and unnatural stratagems. 4 The Scribes and Pharisees n Mat, 23. 15 compassed sea and Land to make one of their profession: so do you Jesuits and Semina●ie priests. 5 The Scribes and Pharisees despised Christ and his disciples, and called them Nazarens, in despite of his Country, and hence came this scornful question oh john t. 4● used by Nathaniel: oh can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? After the same manner do you scoff at our Religion, and say with Harding, that it began not at JERUSALEM, but at Wittemberge. p Harding in his confutation of the APol. 6 The Scribes and Pharisees boasted much of their succession. and said. We be q john, 8, 33 Abraham's seed: We be r john, 9, 28, 29 Moses disciples: We know that God spoke with Moses: but this man we know not from whence he is, or what he can show for his succession. And when Christ began to confute their errors, they said unto him: s Luk, 20, 2 Catena in Luk, 20 tell us by what authority thou dost these things? or who is he that hath given thee this authority? Which words of theirs Saint Cyrill frameth in this sort▪ t Cypril in●● tu ortus ex juda, commissosnobis fasces usurpas: thou being of the tribe of judah (and therefore having no right by succession unto the Priesthood) takest upon thee the office that is committed unto us. S. Chrisostome likewise imagineth the pharisees to say thus: v Chrysost in Mat, homil, 39 Bellarm, lib, ● de eccles, c, ●, ●● Rhemist, in▪ Act 23, sect, ●, Tu de sacerdotali familia natus non es: Senatus tibi hoc non concessit: Caesarnon donavit: thou art not of the house of priests: the Senate hath not granted it thee: the Emperor hath not given it unto thee. The like boasts make ● you of your succession. Yea, Pope Symmachius was not ashamed to avouch, that if the Pope want virtues, and goodness of his own, the virtues that are given him by Peter his predecessor are sufficient. His words are these, y Distinct, 40. non vos. In Papa si desint bona acquisitaper meritum, sufficiunt quae a loci praedecessore praestantur. And your gloss upon the same saith thus; Petrus fecit Papam haeredem bonitatis sua, Peter hath made the Pope heir of his goodness. z Glossa. ibid. 7 The Pharisees put their confidence in their works, and thought they could merit eternal life by them: for so Saint a Phil, 3. 7 Paul saith of himself, that being a Pharisee, his works were his gain and advantage, in the matter of Salvation. * Andrad. lib. 6, page 5 17 Soto in assertione Cathol, de bonis operibus. et Lindan. lib. 3 cap, 20, The very same doctrine of confidence in works, and of the merit of Salvation thereby, do b Concil. Trident sess, 6, c, 32 your Popish Doctors teach in their books and Pamphlets extant to the view of the world. 8 These Pharisees c Mark, 7, 8 laid the commandments of God a part, and observed the traditions of men: so do you. 9 The d Epiphan. haeres▪ 15, ante, Christum. Scribes were reputed heretics, for that they brought in a sophistical exposition of the law. And for the self same cause, may you well be ranged amongst heretics: for there was never any heretics, that ever devised more vain and sophistical expositions upon the word of God, nor more contrary to the meaning of the holy ghost, than you have done. 1 To insist in some particulars. To prove, that whosoever accuseth the Pope shall never be forgiven, Pope Sixtus e Vide Concil. tom. 1, purgat, sixth. alleged Math. 12, 32. Whosoever shall speak against the holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world nor in the world to come. 2 To prove, that the Pope is greater than the Emperor, Innocentius the third f Decretal. lib. 1 tit. 33▪ de maior et minor obed. alleged Gen 1. 16. God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the less light to rule the night And he interpreted it thus: g Ibid, God created two lights in the firmament of heaven; so in the firmament of the earth two rulers; a greater light, and a lesser light, that to the Popè and the Emperor; the one to govern the day, the other the night, that is, the Pope to govern the Clergy, the Emperor the laity. 3 To prove that the Pope may set his foot in the neck of the Emperor, Pope Alexander the third h Vide Na●cler generat, 40. alleged Psalm. 91. 13. Thou shalt walk upon the Lion and asp: the young Lion and the dragon shalt thou tread under feet. 4 To prove that the Pope's power is greater than all other created power, extending itself unto things celestial, terrestrial and infernal, Antoninus allegeth Psalm 8. 6. 7: Thou hast put all things under his feet all sheep and oxen: yea and the beasts of the field: the fowls of the air, and the fish i Anton in: Sun. part, 3, tit, 22, c, 5, S. 4 et 5, 6. of the sea, etc. where (saith he) By oxen are meant jews and Heretics; by beasts of the field, pagan and infidels; by sheep, Christians both Kings and subjects; by birds of the air, Angels in Heaven; and by fishes in the sea, souls in purgatory. 5 k Io, Capistr. de Papa et eccles. authori. 1, 2, fol, 21. Did not the Lord (saith another of your sophistical Scribes) command Peter, Luke 5. 4. To launch out into the deep, that he might signify the height of power in Peter. Again, why did the Lord sand Peter only to the sea to fish with an angle or hook, but chat he would insinuate, that he intended to set Peter over the whole surging sea of the tempestuous world? and why did he command him to fish with an iron hook, but that he was disposed to commit unto him the sword both of the spiritual and temporal Empire. 6 To prove the antiquity of the Cardinals of Rome, l Andrea's Barbat▪ apud Polyd de Invent, lib, 4 cap, 9 Andreas Barbatius alleged, 1. Samuel 2. 8. Domini sunt cardines terrae, the corners of the earth be the Lords. 7 To prove that the Church of Rome hath the m Anacletus epist. ● pre-eminence over all other Churches, Anacletus allegeth Math. 16. 18. Upon this rock will I build my Church; And he expoundeth it thus: Super hanc petram, id est super ecclesiam Romanam aedificabo ecclesiam meam, upon this rock, that is, upon the Church of Rome will I build my Church. 8 To prove that the Church is built upon Saint Peter, * Bellarm, de Pontif. Rom. lib, 1, cap. 17 Bellarmine allegeth the self same place; and expoundeth it thus: upon this rock, that is, upon thee Peter will I build my Church. But, the ancient fathers expounded this text, far otherwise. Hear the words of Saint Austen: n Aug. de verbis dom. secundum Mat. serm. 13 'tis es ergo (inquit) Petrus; et super hanc petram, quan confessus ●s; super hanc petram quàm cognovisti, dicens; tu es filius dei vivi, aedificabo ecclesiam meam, id est super meip sum filium dei vivi aedificabo ecclesiam meam. Super me aedificabo te, non me super te etc. Thou art Peter (saith Christ) and upon this rock which thou hast confessed, upon this rock which thou haste acknowledged by saying; thou art Christ the son of the living GOD will I build my Church; that is, upon myself the son of of the living God, will I build my Church. I will build thee upon me, notme upon thee: for men intending to build upon men said, I hold of Paul, I of Apollo's, I of Cephas; and others that would not be builded upon Peter, but upon therocke, said, I hold of Christ, for the rock was Christ, upon the which foundation Peter himself was builded, sith no man can lay any other foundation besides that which is laid, which is Christ jesus. Saint Hierom subscribeth to the same exposition. o Hieron. in Math, 16, 18 By the rock (saith he) we understand Christ whom Peter confessed: for if we take Peter for a stone of the foundation, all the Apostles shall be alike, according to that which we see in the Apocalyps. And in the same current runneth p Euseb. in homil▪ in fest, Paul et ● etri, Chrylost▪ homil, 55, in Math et in psa▪ 32, et in serm. 21, de Pentecost. Eusebius Emissenus, q Ambros. in Ephes▪ c, 2▪ et in lib de Incarnatione Dominici sacramenti, Ambrose, ʳ Chrysostome, s Epiphan in lib 2, contra haeres. Epiphanius, t Origen, in Mat, 16▪ tract. 1. Origen, x Beda in johan. cap, 21. Gregory, Beda, a Hilar▪ ●de Trinitate lib, 2. ● Hilary, ᵇ Fabianus, and the whole stream of the ancient Fathers. But to wound you with your own weapons Titelman a Friar agreeth with the forenamed writers. His words are these: b Fabianus epist. ad Zenonem Imperatorem. ᵇ Titelmanin Math, 16. Upon this rock, up on this truth of faith which thou haste confessed, and hast uttered saying: thou art CHRIST the Son of the living GOD: and also upon myself a most sure rock, which in thy foresaid speech thou hast confessed; I will build and found my Church. So doth also, Ferus an other of your writers, c Ferus in Math 16. It is not (saith he) for man that he should be a rock, even as job saith is my strength the strength of stones. Nay, on the contrary all flesh is grass and every man living is altogether vanity. It belongeth only to Christ, that he should be a rock, etc. Again, d Ibid. when Christ saith: I will build my Church upon this rock; he meaneth nothing else then he will build his Church upon a sure and unmovable foundation, against which all the assaults of his enemies can be able to do nothing. By this it is manifest that Christ built not his church upon Peter, as a chief foundation (for we are built upon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles, jesus Christ himself being the head cornerstone) or upon any other man: for no man is so firm and constant, that he cannot be moved, as we may also see in Peter; & therefore an other Rock is to be sought for, and truly in the scriptures Christ himself is often called a Rock or stone, as in Isai, I will put in Zion a cornerstone, approved and chosen, whosoever believeth in him shall not be confounded. And in the Psalm, the same stone which the builders refused is become the head stone in the corner. 9 To prove that Saint Peter was not only the head of the Church, but of the Apostles also, e Bellarm, de Pontifice Rom. lib, 1, cap.▪ 12 Bellarmine allegeth Math. 16, 19 I will give unto thee, the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt lose one earth, shall be loosed in Heaven. But this text of scripture proveth no such matter, as the ancient fathers have well observed. f Orig▪ in Mat, 16, tract. 1. Hoc dictum, (saith Origen) tibi daho claves reg●i coelorum, caeteris quoque commune est: & quae sequuntur, velut ad Petrum dicta, sunt omnibus communia: this saying, to thee will I give the keys of the kingdom of heaven, is common to the rest of the Apostles: and the words that g Simo super unum illum Petrum tantum existimas aedificaritotam ecclesiam quid dicturus es de johann filio ●onitrui et apostolorum unoquo. etc. Orig. ibid. follow, as spoken unto Peter, are common unto all. Again, if only upon Peter thou thinkest the whole Church to be built, what wilt thou say of john the son of thunder & of every of the Apostles? shall we dare to fay, that against Peter only the gates of hell shall not prevail, & against the rest of the Apostles they shall? and not rather in them all, and every one of them, that to be true which is said; the gates of hell shall not prevail? and that also, upon this rock will I build my Church? for if this speech to thee will I give the keys of the kingdom of heaven, be common to all; why then should not all that which goeth before, and followeth after, as spoken to Peter be common to them all? Saint Cyprian is of the same judgement with Saint Origen, as appeareth by these his words. * Cyprian de Simplicitate Prelate. Hoc erant utique et caeteri Apostoli quodfuit Petrus, pari consortio proediti et honoris et potestatis; sed exordium ab unitate proficis●itur, ut ecclesia una monstretur▪ the same were the rest of the Apostles doubtless, that Peter was, endued with equal fellowship, both of honour & of power: but the beginning came of unity, that the CHURCH might thereby be showed to be one. Hierome also holdeth that the place before alleged, is not sufficient to prove Saint Peter to be the sole ministerial foundation of the Church. His words are these: h Hieron. lib 8 adverse▪ jovinian thou wilt say, the Church is founded upon Peter: yet in another place, the same thing is done to all the Apostles; and they all received the keys of the kingdom of heaven: et ex aequo super eos ecclesiae fortitudo solidetur, and equally upon them all, is the strength of the Church settled. Beda likewise is of opinion, that the power of binding and losing was given to the Apostles with out any prerogative of one morethens other. I will give you his express words. i Bede homil. in evang. quem me dicunt. Potestas ligands et soluendi, quam vis soli Petro a domino data videatur; tamen absque ulla dubitatione noscendum est, quodet caeteris Apostolis data est: the power of binding and losing although it seem to be given of the LORD to Peter alone; yet without all doubt we must know, that it was also given to the rest of the apostles. To this doctrine also have whole k Concil. Aquigranens. c. 9 ex Is●d et Synod. Colonens. med. 96, c, 1. Counsels subscribed, But what need I stand in quoting of ancient fathers and Counsels? I will wound you again with your own weapons, and make you cry out with julian: l Theodoret, Tripart, histor▪ lib, 6▪ cap. 17 Proprijs pennis configimur etc. Behold we are wounded with our own quills, out of our own books they take armour which in fight they use against us. Hear the words of one of your own School Doctors: m victoria de potestate ecc es 1 elect▪ 2 can, 3 et 4, page 84 Apostoli habuer unt aequalem potestatom cum Petro; quam sic intelligo, quod quilibet Apostolorum habuit potestatem ecclesiasticam in toto orb▪ & ad omnes actus ad quos Petrus habuit: all the Apostles had equal power with Peter; which I thus understand, that every one of the Apostles had power ecclesiastical in the whole world, and to all those acts to which Peter had the same▪ Covarruvias, also one of your own Canonists, cometh with this canon shot against you: juxta n Covar▪ tom▪ 1. part, 2, S. 9▪ pag. 242▪ col▪ 4 Catholicorum virorum authoritates, etc. According to the authority of Catholic writers; and the common tradition of all men, the Apostles received o Aequalem cum Petro potestatem ordinis et jurisdictionis: etc.: equal power with Peter, both of order and jurisdiction? in so much doubtless, as every Apostle had equal power with Peter, from God himself, and that both over all the World: and to all actions that PETER could. 10 To prove that Peter was at Rome, your popish p Rhemist, in 1, epist▪ Petri et Ballarm▪ de pontif., li▪ 2, c, 2 Doctors quote, 1. Peter 5, 13. the Church that is at Babylon saluteth you; by quoting whereof they have gained thus much, that Rome is q Revel, 17, 5 great Babylon the mother of whoredoms and abominations of the earth. 11 To prove that the Pope sitting in Peter's chair cannot err in matters of faith and Doctrine, your r Bellarm. lib, 4 de pontif., cap▪ 3, et Rhemist. annot.▪ in Luk, 22. sect, ●● Doctors quote, Luke, 22, 32. The Lord said Simon, Simon, behold Satan hath desired you, to winnow you, as wheat. But I have prayed for thee; that thy faith fail not. In which words our Saviour Christ promiseth not, that Peter's judgement should never err, but that in his great and dangerous temptation, into the which our Saviour foresaw he should fall, his faith should not utterly fail. I have prayed for thee that thy faith fail not, that is s Chrysost, in johannem ho-mil 72 Chysostome, ne in fine pereas, that thou finally perish not. And in another place; t Idem in Math homil 83 non dixit quip non neg abis, sed ut non deficiat fides tua: cura enim ipsius factum est ne omnino Petri fides evanesceret: Christ did not say, thou shalt not deny me, but thy faith shall not fail; for by his care and favour it came to pass, that Peter's faith should not utterly be extinguished. Reverend v Beda in Lu.▪ 22 Beda likewise saith, that our Saviour prayed for Peter, not that he should not fail, that is, that after he was fallen by denying him, he might rise again by repentance to his former estate. Now mark I pray you, how ridiculous this illation of Romish doctors is: I have prayed that though thou do thrice deny me, and shamefully forswear me; yet nevertheless thy faith shall not quite fail: therefore neither Peter nor the Pope can err in any point of Religion. Secondly, suppose that CHRIST had prayed that PETER should neither err in judgement, nor fail in the temptation now at hand; what doth this advantage your holy father the Pope? for if this be to be understood of the Pope, then must he also first be sifted by Satan as Peter was, and▪ deny Christ as Peter did: for if the one part must be understood of the Pope, then of necessity must the other be also: and so consequently must you needs confess (as well you may) that the Pope is a denier of Christ, and a shameful forswearer of him Thirdly, this text doth indeed quite overthrow your Romish Religion: for your doctors jointly, teach that Christ's prayer is available for the Pope, to keep him from error, not in the Temple, or Pulpit or closet or any other common or private place; but only in his chair, consistory and Council, in debating doubtful causes of Religion: as if Christ had prayed not for the men, but for the walls, which is directly against the words of our Saviour: for he saith not, I have prayed for thy chair, tribunals, Courts, consistories, and Counsels, that they shall not err; but he saith, I have prayed for thee, noting his person, that thy faith, that is the persuasion of thine heart believing in me, shall not utterly fail. Lo here, Christ prayed for Peter's person, and not for Peter's chair. Lastly, although Peter had great confidence in himself, saying: x Luke. 22. 33 I am ready to go with thee into prison and to death. y john, 13 37 I will lay down my life for thy sake: and z Math. 26▪ 33. though that all men should be offended by thee, yet would I never be offended. Notwithstanding (I say) all this Peter deemed him thrice, and swore that he knew not the man. Now as Peter trusting two much in himself, and esteeming more of himself then his fellow disciples did, chanced to fall more shamefully than all they: so your holy father the Pope, trusting to much in his own strength▪ and esteeming more of himself, than all other Bishops do, happeneth to oppose himself against Christ, and to do far worse than all others. As Peter therefore, finding his faith to have quailed, acknowledged his fault, & went out at the crowing of the Cock, and wept bitterly: so your pretended successor of Peter, finding himself to have fallen away from the true God into idolatry and apostasy, should with Peter acknowledge his fault, and go out of BABYLON, and weep bitterly, 12 To prove that the Church cannot err, a Bellarm▪ de eccles▪ lib▪ 3. cap. 14 Bellarmine allegeth 1. Tim. 3-15, That thou mayest know, how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the Church of the living God the pillar and ground of truth. But he is greatly deceived herein: for that Church which the Apostle here calleth the house of God, and the pillar of truth is not any visibly company but an invisible, that is, the elect only in a visible congregation: for they alone are that house wherein God dwelleth; as it may firmly be proved by these words of the Apostle: b Heb. 3, 6. Christ as the son, is over his own house. But what house is it? is it a visible Church? c Ibid. Not; we are the house, if we hold fast the confidence and rejoicing of the hope unto the end. Secondly the Church is called a pillar metaphorically; because it is like unto a pillar. For as a pillar doth support and vnderprop●e a building and maketh it more stable, firm and strong: so the Church doth sustain and support the truth: for the truth is no where preserved but in the Church, neither is there any place or seat in which it resteth, save only among the godly in the Church. Now than if your will reason thus: Truth is no where to be found but in the Church. therefore whatsoever the Church decreeth is truth, you do in reasoning commit a fallacy: for the Church may preserve truth, and yet be not altogether free from error. 3, The Argument which Bellarmine draweth, from this text of scripture followeth not: for james, Peter, & john; e Galat, 2, 9 were accounted, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, to be Pillars; and yet these Pillars erred both in matters of Doctrine, and manners They erred in manners, when they f Mat, 16, 56 forsook Christ, and fled; and they erred in doctrine, when they g john, 20, 9 knew not the Scriptures, that Christ must arise again from the dead; and when they dreamt of the restoring of an earthly kingdom. h Act, 1, 6 To conclude this particular, the Apostle calleth the Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the Pillar of truth, & not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, the foundation of the truth, and Saint Chrysostome, lest any should take occasion i Chrysost, in 1 Tim, 3, 15 from the Apostles words, to ascribe overmuch (as you do) to the Church, converteth the proposition, and saith, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: truth is the pillar and the establishment of the Church. 13 To prove that the Church cannot err, your k the mens, annot. 1, Tim, 3, 15 Doctors also allege, Math, 28, 20, Lo, I am with you always until the end of the World: which promise is not (as l Bellarm, de eccles, lib, 3, c, 14 Bellarmine would have it) made to any visible Church or congregation, but unto the godly and elect only, as the learned fathers expound it. To begin with saint Chrysostome▪ m Chrysost, in Mat, cap, vlt. Noncumillis (saith he) solum modo futurum esse dixit, sed cum omnibus qui post eos credituri fuerant, neque enim Apostolivsque ad consummationem seculi victurierant. Sedtanquam uni corpori, loquitur cunctis fidelibus: he saith not, that he will be with them only, but with all that afterwards should believe. Neither were the Apostles to live until the end of the world. But as unto on body, he speaketh unto all the faithful. Saint Hierome subscribeth to the same exposition n Hieron, in Mat. cap, vlt. Ostendit Christus se nunquam a credentibus recessurum esse. Christ here showeth, that he will never go from believers. So doth, also Rabanus Maurus an ancient Divine; o Raban in Comment. in hurclocum. Ex hoc intelligitur quodvsque ad finem seculi non sunt defuturi in mundo; quidivina mansione & inhabitatione sunt digni: by this is meant, that until the end of the world there shall not be wanting in the world such, as are worthy an heavenly mansion & dwelling place, To adjoin one answer more, this text which your popish Seducers allege, doth rather make against than, then for them: for Christ (according to his promise) is with every one of his elect, & not with sun one particular man only, as they would have the place to sound. And (to use saint origen's words) p Origen in Rom. 15 Nulli Apostolorum dictum est singulariter & nulli sidelium, ero terum; sed multitudini ecclesiarum pluraliter, ero nobiscum. It is spoken to none of the Apostles, & to none of the faithful singularly, I will be with thee; but to the multitude of Churches, plurally, I will be with you. Yea, some of your * Illa est vera et sine cō●adictitione probatio, quae etiam ab adversarijs ipsis singula testifica tionis prosert. Iren. lib, 4 own writers acknowledge, that Christ said not, I will be with thee Peter, and with thy successor only; but q Dyonis Carthusianus in hunc. locum. ero vobiscum hoc est, cum vobis et successoribus vestris, cunctisque fidelibus: I will be with you, that is with you and your successors, and with all the faithful. And the said Dyonisius gathereth not hence, as your later writers do, that the visible Church cannot possibly err. r Dyonis. ibid., sed quod nunquam deficiet fides in toto, sed usque in finem seculiper sever abit in aliquibus christiana religio; but that faith, shall never fall away totally, but that Christian religion shall abide in some until the end of the world 14 To prove that not only the predestinate, but the reprobates also may belong unto the true church & be members thereof s Bellarm, de eccles, lib, 3▪ c, 7 Bellermine quoteth Math. 3 12, where the Church is compared to a Barn floor. wherein is both chaff and wheat; and Math. 13. 47, where it is compared to a draw net cast into the sea, that gathereth of all kinds of fish: and 2. Tim. 2. 20. where it is compared to an house, wherein there be not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth, and some for honour, and some unto dishonour. All which places must be understood of the visible Church, whereof the reprobates may be members for a time; and not of the invisible, whereof none can be members, but those only, that are truly engrafted into the body of Christ jesus; for (to produce your own decrees against you) t Decr part. 2 cons 24. quaest. 3. cap. 8 ad ecclesiam non pertinent illi, qui in eius unitate corporaliter misti per pessimam vitam separantur, they belong not to the Church which being corporally mixed in the society thereof, are separated by a most lewd life. To be short, the places alleged by Bellarmine, do prove, that wicked men may be in the Church, but not of the Church. This my distinction is grounden upon the very words of Saint john; u 1 john. 2. 19 they went out from us, but they 〈◊〉 not of us: for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But this cometh of pass, that it might appear, that they are not all of us. 15 To prove that the Catholic Church is, and hath been always visible, x Bellarm. de eccles. lib. 3, ca 12 Bellarmine heapeth up these places of Scriptures: Math, 18, 17: tell it unto the Church. Act, 15. 4. When they were come to jerusalem, they were received of the Church. Phil. 3. 6, concerning zeal, I persecuted the Church. For an answer hereunto, I will lay down the sundry significations of the word (ecclesia Church) in the sacred Scriptures. This word (not to speak of it as it is y Psal, 26, 5 Act. 19 32, 40. used in malampartem, viz. For a company of wicked people) is taken six ways. 1 For all the elect that have been in the world, are, or shall be. and in this sense it is used in the Symbol of the Apostles: I believe the Catholic Church: and Math, 16, 18. Upon this rock will I build my Church. Ephes. 1, 22, God hath appointed Christ over all things to be the head to the Church, and Chap, 5, 32, I speak concerning Christ and concerning his Church. 2 For that part of the elect, which triumpheth with Christ in heaven, and is commonly called the try umphant Church This is that Church which S. Paul calleth z Ephes 5. 27 a glorious Church not having spot etc., or any such thing: and that a Revel. 7. 9 great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds and people and tongues which stood before the throne, & before the Lamb clothed with long white robes, and palms in their hands, in token of victory: 3 For that part of the elect, which warreth upon earth and is called the militant Church; And of this the Apostle speaketh Acts, 5, 11, great fear came on all the Church, and 1, Tim, 3, 15, the house of God, which is the Church of the living God: 4 For particular congregations confessing Christ's true Religion, as Revel, 2, 1, unto the Church of the Ephesians, etc. 5 For the governors of the Church, as Math. 18, 17 tell it to the Church, that is, to the governors of the Church. 6 For the people or flock committed to every pastors charge, as Act. 20. 28, take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, whereof the holy Ghost hath made you overseers to feed the Church of God etc., in which words poimnion and ecclesia do signify one, and the same thing. Now to apply this distinction; the places alleged by Bellarmine, do prove that particular Churches and the members thereof, are visible; but they prove not, that the Catholic and universal Church is visible. Now we grant▪ that particular congregations are visible: but we deny with the ancient b Clemens, Alexand, lib. 7 Strom. Ambros in Epes, c, 3, et Aug. in psa, 90 concione, 2 fathers, that the Catholic Church is visible: and do hold that it cannot be espied but by the eyes of faith. Therefore your Cardinal disputeth, not ad idem, 16. To prove that it is impossible that the visible Church should utterly fail upon the earth, and fall from God, c Bellarm, de eccles, li, 3, c, 13 Bellarmine quoteth Math. 6. 18. The gates of hell shall not pervaile against it. In which place our Saviour speaketh of the universal invisible Church, and not of a particular visible Church, as Bellarmine expounds it; for had he spoken of a visible Church, he would have said aedificabo ecclesias meas, I will build my Churches: because many particular visible Churches were then about to be in the world. But he saith, aedifica●o ecclesiam meam, I will build my Church; noting one Church, not many, even as it is also in the Creed: I believe the Church; not this or that Church, but the Catholic Church, which is an invisible company of the faithful, elected and chosen to eternal life, and not a visible company of men, professing the same faith and religion, and acknowledging the Bishop of Rome to be their chief pastor, as your Popish d Lindan. lib, 4 cap, 84. Canisius de precept. eccles. ar●, 9, et Bellarm, de eccles, lib. 3. cap. 2 Doctors define it. Again, had Christ here meant any other Church but the Church universal, then had he not been as good as his word: for the gates of hell have prevailed against the four great patriarchal Seas of the Churches, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Ephesus, and against all other particular Churches that flourished in the former a●es: It remaineth therefore that we expound this place, not with Bellarmine of a particular visible Church, but of the Catholic universal Church, against which the gates of hell e Valitura & indicat. praevalitaras negat. shall be of strength, but they shall not pruaile by strength. 17 To prove that general Counsels aught only to be called and appointed by the Pope's authority, f Bellarm. de Council lib. 1, cap.▪ 12 Bellarmine allegeth Math. 18. 20. Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the mids of them. Lo hear your learnedst writer saith, that to assemble in the name of Christ, is to assemble in the name of the Pope. A goodly exposition. 18 To prove that all men are bound of necessity to receive the decrees of Counsels, without any trial or examination of them, f Bellarm. de Concil. lib. 1. cap. ●8. Bellarmine quoteth▪ Deut 17. 12▪ That man that will do presumptuously, not hearkening unto the Priest (that standeth before the Lord thy God, to minister there) that man shall die. But he quoteth not the words immediately going before; h Verse ●● according to the law, which they shall reach thee, and according to the judgement which they shall tell thee, shalt thou do. See here, there is no absolute judicial power given to the Priest, but according to the law. Thus doth your Cardinal dispute with us, as the i Matth. 4. 6. Devil did with Christ: quoting only that which serveth for his turn, and leaving out that which maketh against him. 19 To prove that the goods of the Clergy both secular & ecclesiastical, aught to be exempted from paying tribute to Princes, k Bellarm, de Clericis. ca 2●. Bellarmine quoteth, Ge.▪ 47. 22 only the land of the Priests bought he not: for the Priests had an ordinary of Pharaoh, and they did eat their ordinary, which Pharaoh gave them: wherefore they sold not their ground: and verse 27. joseph made it a law over the Land of Egypt unto this day, that Pharaoh should have he fift part; except the land of the Priests only, which was not Pharaohs. But Bellarmine considereth not, that the word Cohen here used, signifieth as well a Prince as a priest; To quote some places for the verifying hereof, In the 41. of Genesis, verse 45. joseph is said to marry Asenath the daughter of Potipherah Cohen, that is prince not Priest of On: for I do nor think, that joseph would marry the daughter of an idolatrous Priest. Likewise in the 2. of Samuel, chap, 8. verse, 18, it is said that the sons of David, Cohanim haiu, were chief rulers or Princes, not Priests. So in the 20 of the same book, verse, 26. Ira the Iairite is called Cohen le David, that is a chief prince about David, as Saint Hierome expoundeth it saying l Vide Hieron, traditi. du. hebraic▪ in lib, Regum. Ira Iairites erat sacerdos David, id est magister; sicut alib● scriptum est. filij autem Dauiderant sacerdotes, id est magistri fratrum suorum. Ira the Iairite was a Priest of David, that is, a ruler, as it is else where written: the sons of David were priests, that is rulers of there brethren. Now to make application of this that hath been said: whereas the text only proveth, that the Princes or officers of Pharaohs household, who were maintained by Pharaohs provision, were exempted from paying tribute to Pharaoh: Bellarmine pretendeth to prove thereby, that priests were exempted too. To conclude, be it granted, that they were thereby exempted, It was but a politic law made by JOSEPH for that Country only: Princes of other Countries were not bound to that constitution 20 To prove that every one hath from his nativity an Angel for his custody, the m Rhem. in Apoc. 1, sect, 9 Rhemists quote Act, 12. 15. It is his Angel: which place me thinks might better be translated thus; it is his messenger: for the n Act. 12. 5 Church that made earnest prayer unto God for him, were not so simple as to think, that an Angel o Ibid▪ verse. 13 knocked at their entry door: but they verily thought, when Rhode told them that it was Peter that knocked, that it was a messenger come from Peter. 21 p Rhem. ibid. They do also for the same purpose, quote Gen. 48, 16. The Angel, which hath delivered me from all evil, bless the children, etc. But here by Angel is to be understood Christ: as appeareth by Genesis 31, 13, where the same Angel is called the God of Bethel. and by Gen. 32, 28. where jacob is called Israel, because he had power with God: and by the 30. verse of the same Chapter, where the place where jacob wrestled with him, is called Peniel, because he had there seen GOD face to face. 22 To prove that the Angels do offer up our prayers unto God: your q Rhem. in Apocal. 8. Rhemists quote Revel. 8. 3 Then another Angel came and stood before the altar having a golden censer, and much odours was given unto him, that he should offer with the prayers of all Saints upon the golden altar, which is before the throne. But they considered not, how that Saint Austen upon this place, saith, that s Aug. quaest, in Euangel. 34. this Angel is Christ: that the golden censeris his body, out of which God u Aug homil. in Apocal. 6. smelled a sweet savour; and that CHRIST doth sanctify our prayers, as the Altar sanctifieth the gift. 23 To prove that Angels may be worshipped, your t Rhemin. Apocal, 19▪ lect. 4 Rhemists quote josua. 5. 14. joshua fell on his face to the earth and did worship. But herein u joshua non adorasset, ni si: agnovisset deum, etc. Origen, homil. 6, in joshuam. josua (to use Saint origen's exposition) would not have adored and worshipped him, had he not known him to be God: for who else is the Prince of the army of the power of God, but our Lord jesus Christ? Thus you see, how that Origen thinketh, that joshua worshipped not an Angel, but the Lord Christ ˣ the Captain of the Lords host, 24 To prove that the Virgin Marie was free from Original sin, * joshua 5, 14 & 15 * Bellarm, lib, 3 de calllt. Sanct. cap, 15. Bellarmine quoteth Cantic. 4, 7. thou art all fair my love, and there is no spot in thee, But Saint Paul, who was a better expounder of the scripture, than Cardinal Bellarmine, took this place in the Canticle, to be meant of the spouse of Christ, and not of the mother of Christ: for he ʸ applieth it to the Church which is all glorious, & without spot or wrinkle: and not to the Virgin Marie, who (to use Saint Austin's words? z Aug de sanct. Virginit, cap, 4 was more blessed y Ephs, 5. 27 percipiendo fidem Ceristi, quam concipiendo carnem Christi; by perceiving the faith of Christ, then by conceiving the flesh of Christ. 25 To prove that there are seven Sacraments, viz. Baptism, the Eucharist, Confirmation, Penance, Matrimony, orders, and extreme unction; your a Bellarm, lib, 2. de Sacram▪ c. 26 et Rhem, in Apocal, 1, sect. 3 Doctors heap up together sundry places of Scripture, where the number of seven is mentioned, as, 2, Reg. 5. 10. Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying; Go and wash thee in Iorden seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be cleansed. Exodus. 29, 37. Seven days shalt thou cleanse the Altar, and sanctify it, so the Altar shall be most holy. job, 42. 8, Take unto you now seven Bullocks and seven Rams and go to my servant job, and offer up, for yourselves a offering, etc. And the Revel, where mention is made of seven Churches, seven Angels, seven stars, seven Candlesticks, and seven thunders. I wonder that b jud, 8 these dreamers did forget to quote Gen. 41, 18 19, 20. Where Pharaoh dreamt that he saw come up c Revel, 17, 8 out of the river, seven lean and evil favoured kine, which did eat up seven fat kine: and Revel. 17, 3. Where Saint john saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy which had seven heads, etc. For this beast with seven heads is called a Mystery, or a Sacrament, as your vulgar translation hath it. I will not say, that by this beast with seven heads, is meant the Pope with his seven sacraments: for ᵈ the seven heads are seven * viz, Caelius, Auentinas, Exquitinus, Capitolinus, V●minalis, Palatinus et Quirinalis. mountains, whereon the woman sitteth: they are also seven e Viz. Reges, consuls, Decen viri, Tribuni, Dictatores, Imperatores, et Papae. kings: f viz. Reges, consuls, Decem viri, Tribuni, Dictatores five are fallen, and g viz. Imperatores. one is, and h viz. Papae, another is not yet come. But I say, that they may as well pick out hence their seven popish sacraments, as from the places which they allege: for the number of seven is here mystical, and prophetical, as well as there. 26 To prove that all which die unbaptized, unless the want of baptism be recompensed either by martyrdom or penance, must needs be deprived of eternalllife, your i Bellarm, lib, ●▪ de baptism. c; 4 et Rhem, in john. 3. Doctors quote. john 3. 5, Except that a man be borne of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God, whereby water is not to be understood material water, but spiritual water wherewith the holy ghost dothwash us into newness of life, or if it were to be understood, of the Element of water, yet (as the master of the sentences expounds it) k Petrus Lombard. lib. 4, Scent dist, 4 intelligendum est de illis qui possunt et contemnunt baptizari: It must be understood of those which may: and yet contemn to be baptised. Yea, one of your l Innocentius 3 apud Greg, Decret. lib. 3. tit. 42. cap, 3 Popes judged, that this place maketh nothing against baptizing of infants, as appeareth by these his words: Ex vi literae satis patet praedictas authoritates, etc. By the very letter it is apparent, that the foresaid authorities (he spoke of this place and of divers others such like) must only be understood of those that are of age, which have a multitude of sins, and cannot be understood of little ones, which only have original sin. But if the Pope had not said it; m Bernard. epist, 77 Nequaquam possum omnino desperare salutem, si aquam non contemptus, sed sola prohibe at imposibilitas: I cannot altogether despair of their salvation, if contempt do not prohibit the water of baptism, but only an impossibility of having of it. n Clemens, epist, 4 Bonum enim est, et puritati conveniens etiam corpus aqua diluere; bonum dico, non quasi principale illud, in quo mens purificatur, sed quod hoc sit sequela illius boni, in quo caro diluitur: for it is a good and a convenient thing, to wash the body in water; good I say, but not that principal good, whereby the mind is cleansed, but that this is a sequel or a consequent good thing to that, whereby the flesh is washed. 27 To prove that the body of Christ is really and substantially in the Sacrament, you usually quote Math. 26. this is my body. But you must know, that the scripture usually speaketh tropically in the declaration of the Sacraments, and saith (this is) for (this signifieth and representeth) for example sake and for verifying what I have said, take a view of Gen. 17 10. Where Circumcision is called the o This is my covenant. gen. 17, 10. covenant itself, whereas it was a p It shall be a sign of the cou●nant gen, 17 11 sign only of the covenant: and of Exod. 12. 11. where the lamb is said to be the q It is the Lords Passover. Lords passover when as it was only a r It is the sacrifice of the lords Passover▪ Exod. 12, 27. sacrifice and s The blood shallbe a token for you Exod. 12, 13. token of the Lords passover. Saint Paul also speaking of the Sacrament of the jews, saith, that t ●, Cor▪ 10▪ 4 the rock was Christ, that is, signified Christ. Now to apply this, in the same sense Christ here speaketh of this sacrament of the new testament, saying: this is my body, that is this signifieth, exhibiteth and presenteth unto you my body. This my exposition is confirmed by the judgement of Saint Augustine: v Augu. contr Adimant. cap. 12 non dubitavit dominus dicere, hoc est corpus meum, cum daret signum corporis sui. The Lord doubted not to say, this is my body, when he gave a sign of his body. And in another place: x August. in Psal. 3. Christus corporis sui figuram discipulis commendaevit: Christ did commend to his disciples a figure of his body. Yea, the seventh general Council, upon these words, hoc est corpus meum; inferred thus: y Vide Concil. tom. 3. in Nicen, 2, Act. 6 Ecce igiter vivisicantis illius corporis imaginem totam, panis scilicet substantiam, quam mandavit apponi, etc. Behold therefore the whole or only image of that quickening body, to wit, the substance of bread, which he commanded to be set before them. Lo here, they held, that our Saviour commanded to be set before his disciples, not the form only of bread, but the substance of bread; and not this body but the image and figure of his body; z August. in Psal. 3. quid ergo paras dentem et ventrem? crede et man ducasti: why dost thou therefore make ready thy teeth, & the belly? believe in Christ and thou hast eaten him. 28 a Canisius de sacram. extreme. unct. et Rhem. in hunc, locum. You ground your sacrament of extreme unction upon the 5th, chapter of james vers. 14, Is any man sick among you? let him call for the elders of the Church, & let them pray for him, & anoint him with oil, etc. whereunto I answer, that the gift of healing was then in the Church, as appeareth in Mark. 6, 13, and that this anointing with oil, was in those days a sign of that miraculous gift; & that the gift being now taken away, the sign is to no use. 2. it followeth not, that this anointing with oil is therefore a sacrament, because the Apostles used it in healing of the diseased: for Christ himself did b oh. 9▪ 6 spit on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and anointed the eyes of the blind with clay. Now doth it therefore follow that this anointing the eyes of the blind with clay, is a sacrament, because Christ used it in curing of the blind? c Mark 7, 33 He did also put his finger in the ears of one that was deaf, and stammered in his speech, and did spit, and did touch his tongue. Doth it follow then that it is a sacrament to put our fingers in the ears of deaf men; or to spit or touch the tongues of them that are dumb? 29 To prove, that it was lawful for the patriarchs of the Hebrews, by way of dispensation to have many wives, d Bellarm, de matrim, cap, 11 propos. 4 Bellarmine quoteth, Gen, 16, 2 Where Sara gave consent to Abraham to take another wife, which she (saith he) would not have done, if it had been unlawful. Whereunto I answer, that from the falls and infirmities of holy men or women, the argument followeth not, to prove the thing to be lawful e Gen. 9, 21 Noah offended in drunkenness, and f Genesis. 19, 33 Lot in incest, and g 2 Sam. 11, 4, David in adultery, and h 1 Reg, 11. 1 Solomon in marrying many outlandish women, & i Matthew. 26 Peter in thrice denying his master: doth it follow, that it is therefore lawful for us, to do the like? Not; k Aug. in psa. 51 non cadendi exemplum propositum est, sed sicecideris resurgendi, etc. There is not proposed to thee any example of falling, but of arising when thou art fallen. Take heed thou do not fall, let not the slip of the greater, be the delight of the lesser; but let the fall of the greater be a trembling to the lesser; for the l Aug de doct. Christian: lib, 3. 23 falls of the greater are written to this purpose, that the saying of the Apostle may every where be trembled at, where he saith, let him that standeth take heed lest he fall. Bellarmine therefore playeth the spider, and out of a good flower sucketh deadly poison: Secondly, I answer, that Hagar was not Abraham's wife, while Sara lived for she was still under Sara's correction, and was called her maid, as you may see in Gene. 16, 6. Then Abraham said unto Sarah. Behold, thy maid is in thy hand, do with her, as it pleaseth thee. etc. and verse. 9, Then the Angel of the Lord said to her, return to thy Dame, and humble thyself under her hands. 30 To prove that the patriarchs and Prophets before Christ's coming were not in heaven, but were kept in an infernal place of darkness called Limbus Patrum, and were thence delivered by Christ's descending into hell, m Bellarm. de Christi anima lib, 4 cap. 11 Bellarmine allegeth Zachar. 9 11. I have loosed thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water. But Saint Austen doth far otherwise expound this text, and in a better sense: for he is of opinion, that the Prophet there speaketh of the deliverance of the people from their cruel, and unjust bondage and captivity: and that, by the pit without water he meaveth n Humanae misenae siccam profunditatem et sterilem ubi non sunt fluenta justitiae, sed iniquitatis lutum. Aug. de civitate Dei, li. 18. c▪ 5 the dry and barren gulf of human misery, where there are no flowing springs of equity, but standing puddles of iniquity. 31 To prove that Antichrist shall be one particular man, and shall have a proper name, o Bellarm, lib, 3 de Pontif. ca 10 Bellarmine allegeth, Revel. 13, 18. here is wisdom Let him that hath wit, count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man, and his number is six hundredth threescore and six. But of an other mind is Irenaeus, who is a most ancient doctor of the church, even the p Vide Trithemium descriptoribus ecclesiasticis, cap, 8 scholar of Poly carp, who was the disciple of Saint john that wrote the Revelation▪ His testimony is this: q Iren, lib. 5 adv▪ haeres, c. 30 Sed et Latemos nomen sexcentorum sexagint a sex annorum in secontinet; et valde verisimile est, quoniam verissimum regnum hoc habet vocabulum, Laetini enim sunt, quinuncregnant: But the name Lateinos also containeth the number 666. and it is very likely, because the most true kingdom hath this name, for they are Latines which now reign. Thus you see, how that Irenaeus thought, that Antichrist shall not have a name proper to one man; but a name that agreeth to a kingdom, state, company or succession of men. And of the same mind was Arethas Cappadox, as one of your own r Feu-ardentius in Iren. l. 5. c. 30 writers acknowledgeth. Yea, the said father reporteth, that those who had seen Saint john s Facie ad faciem▪ Iren▪ lib: 5 de haeres, ca 30 face to face, did testify that the number of the beasts name t Numerus nominis bestiae, secundum Grae corum compuputationem, per literas quae in eo sunt, sexcentoes habet et sexaginta, et sex; hoc est, decadas aequales hex acontasin, et hec atoncadas ae▪ quails monasin, Iraeneus ibid. according to the computation of the Greek, by the letters that are therein, shall contain 666. and that it v Valde verisimile est. Ibid. is very likely, that his name shallbe Latino's. x Whitakerus in resp. ad tricesimam nonam Sanderi demonstrationem. Quod Irenaeus verisimile esse dixerit, nos proculdubio verum certumque possimus affirmare: that which Ireneus said was very likely. we without doubt may boldly affirm, to be a most certain and apparent truth: and that which he could but y Nos non in eo periclitabimur, nec asseuerantes pronuntiabimus hoc cum nomen habiturum: scientes quoniam si oporteret manifest praesenti tempore praeconiari nomen eius, per ipsum utique editum fuisset, qui et apocalypsin viderat, Iren, lib. 5 cap. 30. guess at in his time, We may now define; time (which is the best interpreter of a prophecy) having made that plain and perspicuous, which until the * Certius et sine periculo est, sustinere adimpletionem prophetiae, quam suspicari et divinare nomina quaelibet. Iren Ibid. prophecy was cleared by they fulfilling and event thereof, was dark and ambiguous▪ To conclude then, I hold it to be an oracle for truth, had Ireneus not guessed at it, that antichrist's z Omnes prophetiae priusquam habent effectum, aenigmata et ambiguitates sunt hominibus Iren. lib, 4▪ cap. 43. name is Roman, or Latin: for these Characters 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do signify 666. and this number is gathered of the small number, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, which in the whole maketh 666. as appeareth by this computation of z Feu-ardentius in Iren. lib. 5 cap. 30. Fen-arden●tius. λ 30 α 1 τ 300 ε 5 ι 10 ν 50 ο 70 ς 200 χξς / 666. I have set down this computation, not to play the Cabalist upon letters, but to show, that this Antichristian beast is a Latin, and to bring you to a full detestation of the Romish Church. For what Church is there in the world, that can so justly be called the Latin Church? Is not the head of that Church a Latin? doth he not reign in Italy, which inolde time was called Latium or Latinum? doth he not make the Latin translation of scripture only authentical? useth he not the Latin tongue in his idolatrous Synagogues? Doth he not a Revel. 13, 16. make all, both small & great, rich and poor, free and bond, to give unto him their fidelity, oath and obedience; and to come to his Latin service? And doth he suffer any to b Revel. 13, 17. buy, or cell, or to live within his territories; save he that professeth himself to be a Roman or Latin, in respect of his Religion? 32 To prove that Antichrist shall re-edify and c Bellarm, de pontif. lib▪ 3, c▪ 13, et Rhemist. in 2, Thess. 2 build again the Temple of jerusalem, and have his imperial seat there, your Doctors allege 2. Thess. 2. 4. He doth sit as God in the Temple of GOD, etc. Whereunto I answer, that it is impossible for Antichrist, to sit in the Temple at jerusalem, because it was destroyed within the compass of 40 years after Christ by d Vide joseph de bello judaico li. 7. c▪ 9, et, 10 the army of Titus Vespasianus, in such sort, that their was not e Luk, 21, 6, a stone left upon a stone that was not thrown down. But you will say, that though a stone doth not now lie upon a stone, yet is it not impossible to make one stone to be upon another there. I answer, that is impossible: for we f Vide Ruffin. inst, li, 8▪ c▪ 38▪ et Theodoret. hb. 3▪ cap. 20 read, that the jews by the leave and help of julian the Emperor, endeavoured to build again their temple and city about 330 years after the death of Christ. But the Lord, to show that he was not pleased, as g Sozomen. lib 5, cap, vlt. Sozomen saith, with the renewing of the temple, hindered this their enterprise, first by fire from heaven, and after out of the earth, and by terrible earthquakes, whereby many of them were slain. But you will further say, that the reason why God hindered julian from building agine the temple, was because he will suffer none to build it again, save only Antichrist. I answer, that he will never suffer any man that either is, or shall be to the end of the world, to re-edify and build again that temple: for h Erit in templo abominatio de solationis, et usque ad consum mationem et finem persevera bit. Vulgar, editio. there shallbe in the temple, as the Prophet Daniel i Daniel, 9▪ 27 hath foretold, the abomination of desolation, & that desolation shall continued unto the consummation and end, that is, k Vsque, ad consummationem mundi et finem perseverabit. Hieron. in Dan. 9 until the consummation of the world, and end of all things. Yea, l Luk, 21, 2● jerusalem (as saith our Saviour) shallbe torden under foot of the Gentiles, until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled, that is, until there m Mat, 24, 29 et 30 appear the sign of the son of man in heaven, and there be signs in the sun and moon, and the powers of heaven be shaken: which shall be immediately before the last judgement. Now then, seeing that God hath thus accursed jerusalem with perpetual desolation: I gather hence that Antichrist shall not sit in the Temple there, as Bellarmine teacheth you: and consequently, that by the Temple in this place, is not to be understood the Temple of jerusalem. By the Temple therefore he meaneth these congregations, that were sometimes true visible Churches: that should (notwithstanding their revolting) be reputed & taken to be true Churches, by the members and favourites thereof. To this exposition do both the Greek and Latin fathers subscribe. Cathisthesetai eye tun naon tou theou he shall sit in the Temple of God, that is, (saith Saint n Chrysost. in 2. Thessaly. ● Chrysostome) Ou ton en Ierosolumois alla eyes tas ecclesias not in the Temple of jerusalem, but in the Churches, whereunto agreeth that of Oeucumenius: Ou ton en jerousalem legeis, alla eyes tas ecclestas tou theou the Apostle saith not, he shall sit in the Temple of jerusalem: but in the Churches of God, oh Oecumenius in 2, Thess 2. that is in such Churches as both have been true visible Churches of God, and do also retain the name and shadow of the Church. As for the Latin fathers, they were so far from thinking that jerusalem should be the seat of Antichrist, as that they confidently avouched, that Rome is mystical Babylon spoken of in the Revelation▪ and consequently that the Church of Rome is the seat of Antichrist, and not the temple of jerusalem, I will acquaint you with their express words. p Hieron. lib. 2 adversus jovinian. Roma (saith S. Hierome) aut fortitudinis nomen est apud Graecoes, aut sublimitatis juxta Hebraeos. Serua quod diceris: virtus te excelsanfaciat, non voluptas humilem: maledictionem quam tibi salvator in Apocalypsi comminatus est, potes effugere per panitentiam: Rome is either with the Greeks a name of strength, or with the Hebrues, a name of height and sublimity. Rome, see that thou be answerable to thy name. Let virtue exalt thee, not pleasure debase thee; thou mayest by repentance escape that curse, which our Saviour hath threatened thee with. Many other such like places, hath the same q Hieron. Epist. ad Marcellam. quaest. 11▪ add Algasiam. in comment. in Isaia cap. 4, et in praefat. de spiritu sancto. ʳ August. de Civitate Dei lib. 18. cap. 22. et cap. 27. father in his worthy writings. Saint Austen also agreeth with him, and saith that Rome is, altera Babylon, another Babylon, and s August. de Civitate Dei lib. 18. cap. 2. secunda Babilonia: a second Babylon. Yea, t Cusan. lib. 2. de Concordia Cathol. cap. vlt. Cusanus your own Cardinal confesseth that Beda and all the ancient interpreters have so expounded this place in the Revelation. Thus you see in part, how that your expositions are quite contrary to the expositions of the ancient fathers, and as sophistical as the expositions of the Scribes. Many other places of scripture might be produced, which your writers have by their false expositious corrupted: but I have thought good, to make mention of these only, as being places of greatest consequent. Now let me entreat you, that you would vouchsafe from henceforth to embrace these our expositions, and to reject the corrupt glosses of your own expositors. The Recusant. Embrace your expositions? Not, I will embrace the Popes, The Minister. The Popes? why I pray I pray you? The Recusant. Why? because he cannot err in expounding of the scriptures, The Minister. Not err▪ v Alphons. de haeres, lib. 1, cap 4. Non credo aliquem esse adeo impudentem Papae assentatorem, ut ei tribuere hoc Velit, ut nec errare, nec in interpretatione sacrarum scripturarum hallucinari possit. Name, cum constet, plures eorum adeo esse illiteratos, ut Grammaticam penitus ignorent, qui fit, ut sacras literas interpretari possint? I do not believe that there is any so impudent a flatterer of the Pope, that will give him this pre-eminence, that he can neither err, nor miss in expounding of the sacred scriptures: for seeing it is well known, that many Popes be so utterly void of learning, as that they know not the principles of Grammar; how may it be, that they should be able to expound the scriptures? Besides this, I have already showed you that your expositions agreed not with the words of scripture. The Recusant. What though? x Hosius de expresso verbo Dei. Si quis habeat interpretationem, ecclesiae Romanae de loco aliquo scripturae, etiamsi nec sciat, nec intelligat, an, et quomodo cum Scripturae Verbis conveniat, tamen habet ipsissimum verbum Dei: If a man have the exposition of the Church of Rome, touching any place▪ of the Scriptures, although he neither know, nor understand, whether and how it agreeth with the words of the Scripture, yet hath he the very words of God. The Minister. O horrible blasphemy! You have (I see) the same opinion of the Pope's expositions, that thee rabbinical jews had of the expositions of their Rabbins? for they (as Lyra reporteth) cried out thus: y Lyra in Deuteron. cap. 17 Recipiendum est quic quid hoc modo proponatur, etiam si dicant dextram esse sinistram: we must needs receive, what soever the Rabbins propound unto us, although they tell us, that the right hand is the left. Yea, z Rabbi▪ Abraham Hispanus. notwithstanding (say they) our expositions seem to us never so true, and right; yet must we throw our truths to the ground: for the truth indeed is with them. To be plain with you, had we no other cause to eondemne you for heretics; yet this one (me thinks) should be sufficient. The Recusant. What! do you repute all those to be heretics, that a Quicunque aliter sacram scripturam intelligit, quam sensus spiritus flagitat, a quo scriptaest: sicet ab ecclesia non recesserit, tamen haereticus appellari potest. Hieron. in Galat. 1. et Isid. lib, 8. Orig. expound the scriptures amiss? admit we did err in expounding of the scriptures: are we therefore to be ranged amongst heretics? O horrible blasphemy! The Minister. Yes, I hold with the ancient fathers, that he is an heretic, that expoundeth the scriptures otheerwise then the meaning of the holy Ghost requireth; so be it he persist and persevere therein after that the true sense thereof hath been showed him. But not to stand any longer upon your expositions: let us proceed on, and take a view of your agreements with the Severians, Sampsees, Simonians, Tatians, valentinians and Zuenckfeldians. The Recusant. Wherein do we agreed with the Severians, and Sampsees? The Minister, The Severians, (as testifieth b Aug, de haeres. cap. 24. Saint Austen) depended much upon such miracles, as they either forged themselves, or effected by the help of the devils: so do you, as your own writers acknowledge. c Alexand. de Hales, part. 4 et quaest. 53. mem. 4. In sacramento (saith Alexander de Hales) apparet caro, inter dum humana procuratione, interdum operatione diabolica: In the sacrament appeareth flesh, sometimes by man's procurement, and sometimes by the operation of the Devil. The d Epiphan▪ haeres. 53. Sampsees kept the spittle of two women whom they worshipped; and the dust of their feet, & carried it about with them to cure diseases withal: so do you worship the ashes & relics of saints, & carry them about with you for the same purpose that the Sampsees did. The Recusant. Wherein do we resemble the Simonians? The Minister. Simon Magus gave his own image, and the e August. de haeres. cap▪ 1. Image of his whore Selene; to be worshipped of his followers: so the present Church of Rome giveth the image of the whore of Babylon to be worshipped, and the images of those that were the authors of their pretended religious orders. 2 Simon Magus, f Docebat detestandam turpitudinem in differenter uten di saeminis. August, Ibid. taught, as Saint Austen witnesseth, that it is no sin to use women indifferenter, that is, without making difference betwixt wife, concubine, and harlot: so do you teach, that he that hath no wife, may instead of her have a concubine, as is apparent in some copies of your g Dist. 34. Is qui Parisijs. anno 1505 decrees; where these words are to be found: Qui non habet uxorem, loco illius concubinam debet habere: he that hath not a wife, aught in steed of her to have a concubine. And in the Chapter immediately following it is thus written: Christiano non nisi unam tantum habere licet, aut uxorem, aut certe loco uxoris, si coniux deest, concubinam: It is lawful for a Christian man to have only one woman, either his wife, or in steed of his wife, if his wife be wanting, a concubine. Yea, Episcopus (saith your great Abbate h De Cohabit. Clericorum et mulier. Panormitan) non tenetur deponere clericum concubinarium: the Bishop is not bound to deprive a Priest that keepeth a Concubine. 3 Simon Magus i Act, 8, 20. thought that the gist of God, might be obtained with money. And thereupon those that buy and cell orders are by the ancient fathers accounted Simonians. k Concil. Chal▪ ●ed. Act 15, can. 2, Siquis episcoporum (say the three hundredth and thirty fathers assembled in the Council of Chalcedon) acceptapecunia, ordinationem fecerit, et sub precium deduxerit impreciabilem gratiam, at que ordinaver it per pecunias episcopum, sive chorepiscopum sive presbyterum, sive diaconum, aut quemcunque alium, qui connumeratur inter Clericos; aut acceptapecunia, ordinauerit aeconomum id est, defensorem, sive paranomarium: qui cunque ergohoc meditatus furit, si convictus fuerit, ipse quidem subeat gradus sui periculum: et qui sic ordinatus fuerit, nullum habeat sructum ex huiusmodi et creatione probrosa et mercimonio, sed sit alienus et dignitat is et solicitudinis eius, quam per pecunias introivit. Sed et ille, qui instans tam turpibus et illicitis datis, intercessor apparuit, siquidem clericus fuerit, de proprio decedat gradu: si vero laicus, sive monachus fuerit, anathema sit. Those also are reputed Simonians, that obtain their orders by flattery, or by the letters of great personages, l Chrysost, in Act. Apost. cap. 1, homil. 3 Cogita (saith Saint Chrystome, speaking of this kind of Simonians) quid acciderit Simoni: Quid enim refert si non das peccuniam, sed pecuniae loco adularis, subornas, multaquae machinaris? pecunia tua sit tecum in perditionem, quoniam putasti ambitu humano parare donum dei. Of both these sorts of Simonians there was great store in Saint Hieromes days, as may appear by this speech of his: m Hieron, in epist. ad Tit. c, 1. Nunc cernimus plurimos hanc rem beneficium facere, ut non quaeranteos, qui possunt ecclesiae plus prodesse, etin ecclesia erigere columnas: sed quos vel ipsi amant, vel quorum sunt obsequijs deliniti, vel pro quibus maiorum quispiam rogaverit, et ut deteriora taceam, qui ut clerici fierent, muneribus impetrarunt. And of both these sorts, there is also great store in the Romish Church at this, day, as appeareth by this Spanish n Collect. ex Herman Nunes. proverb: Obispo de cahahorra haze los asnos de corona: with bribes the Bishops are made blind, that crown-shaved asses orders found. But what do I speak of those only that buy and cell orders? o Mantuan. lib. Calam. 3. Venalia nobis (saith friar Mantuan. speaking of the Church of Rome) Templa sacerdotes, altaria, sacra coronae, ignis, thura, preces, caelum est venale, deusque Amongst us, Churches, Priests, altars, sacrifices, garlands, fire, franckencense, prayers and heaven are set to sale, yea God himself may be had for money amongst us. But what do I produce only one witness? you shall have more, than those, of your own religion, to verify what I have said. Matthew Paris a monk of Saint Albon, saith, that the p Mat, Paris in Henrico 3 sub anno. 241, unsatiable greediness of the Church of Rome so increased confounding right and wrong; ut deposito pudore, velut meritrix vulgaris et effrons, omnibus venalis et exposita usuram pro parvo, simoniam pro nullo inconueniente reputaret, that laying shame aside as a common and impudent harlot, she prostituteth, herself to every man for money, accounting usury for a small fault, and Simony for none. Hereunto might be added the testimonies of q Durand, de modo celebran di Council lib, 2. Durande, and of Bernard of Clunice, who speaking of Rome, saith thus: r Bernard Cluniacens. in Satyra. Roma dat omnia omnia dantibus: Omnia Romae cum pretio: Rome giveth all things to them that give all things: all things at Rome will pass for money. And unto them might be adoyned Thomas Becket, who, when for his wilful disobedience, and treason committed against his Prince, he had fled to Rome for aid and succour, and saw that nothing would be wrought there without money, wrote thus thereof to the Bishop of Mentz: Mater Roma facta est meretrix, et prostituta est pro mercede: Rome our s Thomas Beck. epist. ad Archiepisc. Moguntin mother is become an harlot, and for money prostituteth herself to sale. But to come to the Popes themselves, we t Platina in Benedict. 9 read, that Pope Benedict the ninth sold his Popedom to Gregory the sixth: that Sixtus the fourth v Agrippa de Lenocinio, et orat, ad Lovaniens. built a sumptuous stews in Rome, appointing it to be both masculine and feminine, and making a gain of that xVid. Muscul, in johan. cap. 6. beastly trade: and that these verses were made of Pope Alexander, and spread abroad in his time: viz. Vendit Alexander, claves, altaria, Christum, Vendere iure potest: emeratipse prius Thatis, Pope Alexander maketh sale of his keys; of his altars, and of Christ himself. Well may he cell those things: for he paid dear for them. To conclude, on of your y johannes Monachus. Canonists speaketh thus of your Romish courts. Curia vult marcas, bursas exhaurit et arcas: Si bursae parcas, fuge papas et patriarchas: Si dederis marcas, et eis impleveris arcas, Culpasolueris quaque ligatus eris? And an other of your z johannes Andreas. Canonists, alluding to the name of Rome, versifieth thus: Roma manus rodit: quas rodere non valet, odit. Yea▪ a Theodoric, de Schismate. Theodoricus, b Felinus deofficio judicis delegati. Felinus, c Extrau. de Simonia. ap, 1 num. 5, fol. 18 Panormitane, d Archideaci florent. in tract, de haeres, Archiadocus Florentinus, e Extrau, de Simonia. Hostiensis, and others of your own writers acknowledge, how that the Romish Church pruiledgeth both the Pope and his Cardinals, to cell bishoprics, Deaneries, Abbeys, Archdeaconries, yea, and all other things, that are simonia call by law positive. And thus much concerning your agreement with the Simonians: Now let us come to the Tatians, Valentinians and Zuenckfieldians. The Recusant. Wherein agreed you with the Tatians? The Minister. f Epiphan, haeres, 46 Tatianus the Heretic, and author of the sect of the Encratites, did condemn all marriage as an impure state of life: so did Pope g Syricius●apud Gratian'ss. distinct, 28, cap proposuisti. Syricius condemn all marriages as unclean both in the Clergy and the laity. 2 Both the heretic Tatianus, and the heretical Pope Syricius, to prove that marriage is simply evil h vide loca supracitata. alleged Rom. 8. 8▪ they that are in the flesh cannot please God. And Galathians. 6, 8. He that soweth to the flesh, shall of the flesh reap corruption. In which places, the Apostle speaketh not of the works of nature, but of corrupt nature which overturneth the divine order, which God in the creation set in nature. The Recusant. Wherein resemble we the Valentinians? The Minister. The Valentinians used a barbarous & unknown tongue among the common people as appeareth by these words of Saint Jerome: i Hieron, ad Theodor. Barbaro simplices quosque terrent sono, ut quod non intelligunt, plus mirentur: the Valentinians terrify the simple people with a barbarous sound of words, that whatsoever they understand not, they may the more wonder at, and have in reverence. And this practice of the Valentinians, may fitly be paralleled by the practice of the Romish Church at this day, in using an unknown and barbarous tongue in their church-service. I call it a barbarous tongue, because the common people understand it not: for k 1 Cor▪ 14, 11 except I know the power of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh, abarbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. The Recusant. Wherein do wejoine with the Zuenckfieldians. The Minister. The * Vide. Hosius Polonus in lib. de expresso▪ Dei verbo. Zuenckfieldians, refused to be judged by the scriptures calling them egena elementa, beggarly elements, and fled unto the inward and secret revelations of the spirit: and in like sort do you refuse to be judged by the scripture, calling it dead ink, & what not? I will give you the express words of your approved writers l Pighius controvers. 3, de eccles. Si dixeris (saith Albertus Pighius) haec referri oportere ad judicium scripturarum, communis te sensus ignarum esse comprobas; Sunt enim scripturae muti judices: If thou say, that these matters aught to be referred to the judgements of the Scriptures thou showest thyself to be void of common sense: for the Scriptures are dumb judges: and in another place: m Pigghius, de Hierarchia eccles. lib, 3, cap. 3 Sunt scripturae, (ut non minus vere quam festiue dixit quidam) velut nasus cereus, qui se horsum, tllorsum, et in quamcunque volveris partem trahi, retrahi, fingique facile permittit: the Scriptures are (as one no less truly than pleasantly said) like a nose of wax, that easily suffereth itself to be drawn backward and forward, and to be fashioned this way, and that way, & howsoever you list. Eckius is of the same mind with Pighius, and u Vide kemnicium in Examine Council, T●●dent, pag, 32 most impiously calleth the scriptures, evangelium nigrum, et theologiam atramentariam, the black Gospel, and inken divinity. o Citatur ab Illyrico in nor ma Concilij. Lodovicus a canon of the Church of Laterane, in an oration openly pronounced in the Counsel of Trent, came not far short of them both, saying: Ecclesia est viwm pectus Christi: scriptura autem est mortuum atramentum, the Church is the lively breast of Christ, but the scripture is as it were dead ink. And with him jumped the bishop of Poitiers in the said Council: p Hosius lib. 2 contra Bre●tiū, Scriptura est res inanis, et muta; sicu● b Vide Sleid. lib. 23. etiam sunt reliquae legespoliticae: the scripture is a dead and a dumb thing, as also are all other polique laws. Hosius also the Pope's legate and precedent in the said Council, when objection was made, that King David, being not a bishop, but only a temporal Prince had written the Psalms, blushed not to give this blasphemous answer; q Quidni scriberet? scribimus indocti doctic poematapassim: What if King David wrote the Psames? we writ ballads every body learned and unlearned. But to come to the Pope himself, Pope Leo the 10. when he had received a great sum of money for indulgences, he said to Cardinal Bembus: r Vide Sibrand. Lull.▪ de Papa Rom, lib, 10, cap, 2, O Bembe quantum nobis profuit illa de Christo fabula! O Bembus, how much hath that fable of Christ profited us! And another time, when the said Cardinal alleged a testimony out of the Gospel, he answeted: Quid mihinarras as fabulam illans de Christo? What dost thou tell me of that fable of Christ? Thus you see how that your writers do fly from the scriptures, & when they are convinced by them, fall to accuse them: for which cause they may justly be ranged amongestheretickes; s Iren, adverse. haeres. lib, 3 cap. 2. Heretici enim cum ex scrip turis arguuntur, in accusationem convertuntur ipsarum scripturarum, quasi non certe habeant, neque sunt ex authoritate, & quoth vary sunt dictae, & quod ex his non possit inue niri verit as ab illis, qui traditionem nesciunt: for heretics when they be reproved by scriptures, they begin to find fault with the scriptures, as if they were not well written, and as if they were not of sufficient authority, or were doubtfully uttered, or that they which know not tradition, were never able by the scriptures to find out the truth. Thus also you see, what gross errors you maintain. t August, Epist. 166, Vindicet nos dens de vobis, ut ipse errorem vestrum in vobis occidat, et nobiscum de veritate gaudiatis, God so revenge our cause against you that he may kill your error in you, that ye may rejoice together with us. The fourth Dialogue Wherein is firmly proved that the Papists, are in sundry things as bad as the Turks, and in some things worse: and that it is a crying sin for a subject to attempt the murdering of his Sovereign: The Minister. SIr, at my last being with you, I acqvainted you with some London news, now let me entreat you, that you would vouchsafe to show me the like kindness and to relate what you have heard since. The Recusant, I have heard a long discourse of the manner of the discovery of the late intended treason. The Minister. Sir, I would gladly hear that: for I have heard of divers that it is discovered; but I do not yet certainly know how it was discovered. The Recusant. It was discovered by the means of a certain The letter was written without a name in a disguised hand letter that Master Francis Tresham sent to the Lord Mountegle, some ten days before the Parliament. The contents whereof are these. My Lord out of the love I bear to some of your friends, I have a care of your preservation Therefore I would advise you, as you tender your life, to devise some excuse to shifted off your attendance at this Parliament: for God and man have concurred to punish the wickedness of this time, And think not slightly of this advertisement, but retire yourself into your Country, where you may expect the event in safety. For though there be no appearance of any stir; yet I say, they shall receive a terrible Blow this Parliament, and yet they shall not see who hurts them. This Counsel is not to be contemned, because it may do you good and no harm; for the dauger is passed so soon as you have burnt the letter: And I hope GOD will give you grace to make good use of it: to whose holy protection I commend you. The Minister, Did he say indeed, that God had eoncurred with them to murder the KING and his Nobles? He may fitly be herein compared to one Thomas Muncer, an Anabaptist whose ordinary preachings were these: God hath warranted a johan, Sleidan, Com, 5. Ipsemet, mihi coram pro misit. me face to face, he that cannot lie hath commanded me, to attempt the change by these means, even by killing the rulers. And his bloodthirsty companions may also as fitly be compared to Phifer the lewd companion of the said Muncer, who did but dream in the night time, of the kill of many mice; and presently bore his companions in hand, that God had warned him in a dream, to make away the Nobles. But I pray you sir what did the Lord Mountegle with the letter, did he burn it as he was advertised? The Recusant. Not, b See the discourse of this late intended treason. he no sooner did conceive the strange contents thereof, but he concluded not to conceal it, what ever might come of it. Whereupon, notwithstanding it was somewhat late in the night and dark, he presently repaired to his majesties Palace at Whitehall, and there delivered the same to the Earl of Salisbury; and the Earl of Salisbury showed it to the King upon Alhallows day in the afternoon. The Minister. The Lord Mountegle did therein discharge the part of a most dutiful, and loyal Subject: for he imitated Mordecai, who no sooner knew that Bigthan and Teresh sought to lay their hands on the king Ahashuerosh, but he told it unto Queen Ester, and Ester certified the King thereof in Mordecais name. To apply this to a good use if you know any Romish Bigthan and Teresh, that seek to lay their hands on our dread Sovereign; it is your part to certify him thereof. And if you have intelligence of any King of Aram that taketh Counsel with his servants against Israel; if God by any means reveal it unto you; it is your duty with d 2, Kings, 6, 9 elbid verse, 12. Elisha to make known to the King of Israel, ᵉ even the words that the King of Aram speaketh in his privy chamber. And if you know any Ishibenob that intendeth to slay David, and to give him a terrible blow: you must with f 2, Sam, 21, 17 Abishai, though with exposing yourself to peril, presently secure him and smite the Philistin. Yea, you must with the g 2, Sam. 23, 16. three mighties, even with the hazard of your life, break into the host of the Philistines, and draw water out of the Well of Beth●lehem, and bring it to David if he long for it. To conclude, if any treacherous letters come to your hands, it behoveth you to be Eagle-winged, and speedily with the Lord Mountegle to disclose them, lest as David said to Abner, it be said to you; g 1, Sam, 26, 16 ye are worthy to die, because you have not kept your Master the Lords anointed. But in this letter (me thinks) there was only given a general obscure advertisement of a terrible blow to be given: how (I pray you) was the meaning thereof found out? The Recusant. Truly h See the discourse of this late intended treason. the King himself considered the former sentence in the letter. That they should receive a tirrible blow at this Parliament, and yet should not see who hurt them; and joining it to the sentence immediately following, for the danger is past as soon as you have burnt the letter, did thereupon conjecture, that the danger mentioned, should be some sudden danger by blowing up of powder: understanding by as soon the quickness of the danger, which should be as quickly at an end, as that paper should be in bleasing up in the fire. The Minister. Acceptus, faelix, et gratiosus sit iste, quem Dominus iMuscal, in Psa. ●18, 26, nobis regem dedit. Welcome, happy, and acceptable be he whom God hath raised up to be king over us: for he hath (according to the Emblem of the Egyptians) oculum cum sceptro a sceptre for power and jurisdiction, and with it an eye for watchfulness, and discretion. And of him may we say as Pharaoh said of joseph, when he k Gen, 41. 38 had expounded his dream; can we find such a man as this? and as the Queen of Saba said of King Solomon: happy are the men, happy are these thy servants, which stand ever before thee, k 1. Kings, 10, 9 and hear thy wisdom. Blessed be the Lord thy God, which loved thee, to set thee on the thrown of Israel, because the LORD loved Israel for ever, To make use hereof, why do you seek to mur there our Sovereign, that hath received such an extraordinary measure of GOD'S spirit? David durst not lay his hands on king Saul albeit m 1. Sam. 16, 14 the spirit of the Lord was departed from him, and an evil spirit sent of the Lord vexed him; for when he had Saul alone in the cave and might have slain him, he spared him, saying: n 1. Sam, 24, 7 the Lord keep me from doing that thing unto my master the Lords anointed, to lay mine hands upon him, for he is the anointed of the Lord. And after to Abishai offering to smite him with a spear to the earth, he said, o 1, Sam, 26, 9 destroy him not, for who can lay his hands on the Lords anointed and be guiltless? And to the young man that slew him, p 2, Sam, 1, 14 How wast thou not afraid, to put forth thy hand to destroy the anointed of the Lord? and commanding him to be slain for this his fact, he said: q 2▪ Sam, 1, 16 thy blood be upon thine own head; for thine own mouth hath testified against thee, saying, I have slain the Lords anointed. Yea he himself was touched in his heart, because he had but cut of the lap of Saules garment: whereupon Saint Austen saith thus: r 1, Sam, 24, 6 Quaero, si non habebat Saul sanctitatem, quid in eo david Venerabatur? nam eum propter sacrosanctam unctionem et honoravit vivum, et vindicavit occisum. Et quia vel panniculum ex eius vest prae s Aug, contra literas Petiliani lib, 2, cap 48 cidit, percusso cord trepidavit. Ecce Saul non habebat innocentiam, et tamen habebat sanctitatem, non vitae sed unctionis: if Saul had not the holiness of his anointing, I demand what it was that David reverenced in him? For he both honoured him being alive, for his sacred and holy unction, and revenged him being slain. And he himself had but cut off the lap of his coat, his heart smote him, and he trembled for the fact. Behold Saul was not innocent, yet had he the holiness, not of life, but of unction. Now if David trembled because he had cut off the lap of Saules garment, who had but the holiness of unction only: how dare you cut the throats of those Princes that have the holiness both of life and unction? If he durst not lay his hands on Saul, from whom the spirit of the Lord was departed: how dare you (my tongue faultreth in pronouncing the word, and the Lord confounded him that entertaineth any such intent) spill his blood, in whom the spirit of God dwelleth so plentifully? how can you touch the lap of his garment without trembling, that is such a constant professor, such a perfect textuary, such a sound expositor, such a Christian liver and such a living Library, and walking study? Bibliothece 'tis empsuchos, kai peripatoun moustion. Eunapius. The Recusant. Why use you this speech to me: am I one of those that sought to spill the King's blood. The Minister. What though you be not? A Scorpion you know) hath his sting within him, though he doth not always strike: and a grounded Papist (I know) carrieth always a wolvish nature, which prepares him ever to the spoil, though he never did hurt. But proceed (I pray you) in relating the discovery of your Catholics tragicomical treason, how did they purpose to have performed it? The Recusant. They o See Guido Fawkes his confession, propounded to have it performed by Gunpowder, and by making a mine under the house of Parliament: which place they made choice of the rather, because Religion having been unjustly suppressed there, they thought it fittest that justice and punishment should be executed there. The Minister. So it is thought fittest that their heads should be set up upon the Parliament house, because they thought to have blown up the Parliament house. And as Heliodorus told Seleucus of the Temple of jerusalem: so may we tell the Pope of the Parliament house: p 2. Maccab. 3 38. 39 If thou hast any enemy or traitor sand him thither, and thou shalt receive him well scourged, if he escape with his life; for in that place, no doubt there is a special power of God; for he that dwelleth in heaven hath his eye on that place, and defendeth it, and he beateth and destroyeth them that come to hurt it. For * The Earl of Salisbury in in answer to certain scandalous Papers page, 20, et. 21 as (to use the words of one of our worthy Nobles) where this prodigious Massacre should have been committed, is the same place where the ancient Religion of the primitive Church, shook off the bonds and fetters of the Roman corruption under which it had long continued in servitude: so whiles the same faith shall be religiously and constantly professed, it shall never be in the power of mortal man, to shake the lest corner stone of that blessed and sure foundation. But what store of powder had they provided, to have it blown it up withal? The Recusant. They had (as I am credibly informed) provided thirty six barrels of powder, a thousand of billets, and five hundred of faggots, besides many huge stones, iron crows, pikeaxes, and hammer heads. The Minister. What Machiavelians, or rather Matchless villains were these? What dogged dogs? what bloodthirsty Nero's? what bloody minded joabs? who would ever think, that the affections of men could be steeled with such cruelty and barbarity? And who would ever imagine, that the sons of men, could be thus savage, and have such sanguinary conditions? But why do I term them men? I am deceived, they have the faces of men indeed, but the minds of wild beasts. And why do I call them the sons of men? the rocks surely fathered them, and they sucked not the daughters of men, but the dragons in the wilderness. The dragons in the wilderness? Not, they are more savage than Dragons. Woe worth their treason: it is the unnaturallest that ever was heard of; I would give it an epithet if there were any to express it. And thus I leave them, wishing that they might be drawn on hurdles from the prison to the execution, to show how they have been drawn by brutish affections: that their privities might be cut off, & thrown into the fire, to show that they were unworthy to be begotten, or to beget others: that their bellies might be ripped up, & there hearts torn out, & thrown into the same fire as being the fountain of such an unheard of treachery; that their bodies, having harboured such wicked hearts might be cut off from their heads and divided into many quartars, as they were in the body politic divided by treason, from the head and other sound members: and that their quarters might be fixed upon the gates of our Cities, and exposed to the eyes of men: that as their nefarious attempts were an evil example to others, so their quartered Limbs might be a heedful caveat to others. But to proceed by whom should this powder have been set on fire? The Recusant, By Guido Fawkes their Sentinel: for when he was taken, there were found three matches, and all other instruments fit for blowing up the powder in the vault, ready upon him. The Minister. What a vile miscreant was this; what a villain in a vault? what a Machiavellian with a match? what a bloodsucker without a match? did Caligula his predecessor match him? no; for he was but r Lutum sanguine maceratum. dirt soaken with blood; but this would have been dirt swimming in blood. Did Caligula himself match him? no: for he but wished that the people of Rome had all one neck, that at one blow he might have cut them off; but this runagate of Ephraim not only wished it, but contrived it, and was ready with his matches, to have given us all at once a terrible blow. Nay, did the Devil match him? no: for though he caused the house to fall upon jobes' children: yet s job, 1, 19 left he one alive to tell job: But this more than devilish varlet had thought to have blown up all at once, and not to have left one to escape, to have told who hurt them. Fie Guido, fie: art thou so far from being (according to the ancient exiled proverb) homini deus, as that thou art worse than homini daemon? how art thou fallen from thy kind, and become so degenerate & wild? hath the Pope (whom you commonly call your holy father, and sometimes your t Papa est deus vindictae R, Cupres de eccles, pag. 61, numb Papa aeque as Christus deus est extrau, in johan, 22. Lord GOD) taught thee this? Qualis, malum, deus iste est qui tam impuros exse filios et seeleratos genuit? si pater u Benzo in hist. Ind. filiorum similis, minime profecto bonum esse oportet. What kind of God, with a mischief; is this, that hath begotten such impure and wicked sons? If the father be like the children, there can be no goodness in him. The Recusant. Sir, what mean you, to speak thus sharply against our holy father, and his Children, how dare you speak thus of him, that is Peter's successor at Rome, and Christ Vicar upon earth? and who x Now minus authoritatis a Christo collatum est Vicario suo, ad ovium tutelam et com modum, quam a villico datur Mercenario qui pecora pas cit. Tosterus Apol, pro port. 1. Enchirid. pag. 64, hath no less authority over all Christians, given him of Christ whose Vicar he is, than an hireling hath over bruit beasts. If his holiness have intelligence hereof, he will surely excommunicate you, and it will be lawful for any CATHOLIC to z Heretici. filij vel Consanguinei non dicuntur, sed juxta legem sit manus super eos, ut fundas sanguinem ipsorum. Apud Grat. glossa in Decret. lib, 5, ex decret, Gregor, 9 cause, 23. quaest, 8. cap. legi, kill you y Nos excommunicamus universos haereticos, ut absoluts se noverint om nifidelitatis debito, qui ijs juramento tenebantur astricti. Gregorius, 9 lib. 5. Decret●, tit. 7. cap, 5, glossa, The Minister. A Fig for him, and his excommunications; I care no more for him then Charles the fift, who being menaced by Pope PAULUS the third, with excommunication, if he would not yield up Physance into his hands, answered thus: let him understand by his Ambassadors, that if he will needs be thundering out of his excommunication, I will thunder at Saint Angelo with my Canons and attilerie. In like manner say we to you, let him understand by those that fly to a foreign nest after the Partiche hath bred there, that if he will needs thunder out his excommunication against us Protestants that lays open his Antichristian pride, we will batter the very Walls of Babylon with the Canon of Scripture. And to give him a warning peal, if the Pope (be as you say he is) the Vicar of Christ, he should give you that a Math, 22 21. Mark. 12. 17. Luke. 20 25. thrice recounted precept of Christ: Give unto CAESAR the things which are CAESAR'S: and give unto GOD the things which are GOD'S: But the Pope giveth you not that precept, but this instead thereof: Give unto me, the things which are CAESAR'S, and give unto me also the things which are GOD'S. For the first; he saith in effect, give unto me the things which are CAESAR'S, when he b vide Antonium in Sum part 3. tit. 22, cap. 5. challengeth an Universal Dominion and sovereignty over the whole WORLD, not only over Ecclesiastical persons, as Bishops and other inferior Minister, but also civil, as Emperors, and Kings; for this Universal Dominion appertaineth not unto him, neither did the Ancient Bishops of Rome ever challenge it, as may appear by these arguments. 1 Had this Universal sovereignty appertained to the ancient Bishops of Rome, or had been challenged by them, than it is very likely; that the ancient fathers would have made mention thereof: but the ancient fathers are so far from mentioning of it, as that they mention the quite contrary. c Chrysoft. ad Popul. Antioch, homil. 2. Imperator (saith Chrysostome) parem ullum super terram non habet. The Emperor hath no peer on earth. And before him Tertullian: d Tertull, ad Scapulam. colimus imperatorem ut hominem a deo secundum, et solo Deo minorem: we reverence the Emperor as next unto GOD, and inferior only to God. With them both agreaeth, Optatus; e Optatus contra Parmenian. lib. 3. super imperatorem non est, nisi solus deus qui fecit imperatorem: none is above the Emperor, but only God, who made the Emperor. 2 f Vide Euseb: de vita Constant. lib, 3. cap, 23, et lib, 4, cap, 42, et Socrat. lib. 1 cap, 34, Constantine, g vide Euagrium lib. 4, cap, 9 justinus, h Vide Novel, constit 123, justinian, i vide Sozomen, lib. 7, cap, 9, et Council, Chalcedon, Act. epist. Theodosijs et Valentiniani ad Dioscorum Theodosus k Vide. Theodoret. lib, 4, cap, 8. Valentinian, l Vid, lib, 1, Legum Franciae, cap, 76, Charles, & other ancient Emperors, claimed a sovereignty over the Bishop of Rome, and other Bishops of that age; yea they exercised this their sovereignty, and showed themselves to be their superiors, by their commanding of them in causes ecclesiastical; and that they did not usurp in this case, Saint Austen plainly showeth in his 162, Epistle. 3 m Vide Aug, epist, 166. Constantine, n Vide novel, constit, 123. justinian, o Vide Euagrium lib, t, cap, 12 Theodosius p Vide Theodo ret; lib, 5, cap, 2. Gratianus, q Vide Cod, lib 1, titul, 3, de Epise et cler. cap, si quenquam. Anthemius & the rest of the ancient Emperors, showed their authority to be far greater than the authority of the Bishops of Rome and other Bishops in their times; not only by commanding of them, but also by correcting of them for their offences, and by their appointing of penalties to be imposed on them that did not yield obedience to their imperial laws and constitutions. r Caus, 2, quaest 7. cap. nos si. 4 The Ancient Bishops of Rome were so far from claiming a superiority over the Emperors in their times, as that they did prostrate themselves at their feeetes, and became suppliants unto them, and that about Church-matters. As for example, Leo the 4. submitted himself, and became an humble suppliant to ʳ Ludovicus, s Distinct, to, cap, de capitulis. Lotharius, t Leo epist, 9, et epist. 24 Theodosius, that Counsels of Bishop might be called, and controversies decided. 5 The ancient Bishops of other Sees were so far from acknowledging the Bishop of Rome, to have any Sovereignty over the Emperor in their days, as that they did not acknowledge them to be their Superiors, but their fellow Bishops only: as may easily be gathered out of the writings of v Cyprian. de Simplicitate Clericorum et in Sententijs Episc, Cyprian, x Chrysoft. in homil, 43. in Math. cap. 23 Chrysostome, y Hieron, in epist. ad eva grium Hierom, z Euseb, li. 5. c, 20 Eusebius and a Concil. Car thag. 6. et Council African, cap 92, et cap, 105 et Galfred, monumetens, lib, 8 cap, 4. others; yea Boniface the 3. was the first that challenged to himself the name of universal Bishop, as hereafter (God willing) shall be plainly showed, I come now to the second part of the forenamed precept. That the Pope saith in effect, give unto me the things which are Gods: I prove it by these particulars. 1 Because he challengeth to himself infinite knowledge, and suffereth his Canonists to give unto him an b Decret Gre got. lib, 1, tit. 7 cap. 5 heavenly arbitrement, and (as it were) a divine and infallible judgement: yea to say, that he is a c Cornelius Episc, Bitoni in orat. habit in Council, Trident. sub Paulo tertio. light come into the world, but men have loved darkness more than light. 2 Because he challengeth to himself infinite power, and suffereth himself to be called d Ecce venit Leo de tribu judah Simon Beg nius Epist, Modrusae in Concil. Laterani sub Leone decimo. Leonem de tribu juda, the Lion of the Tribe of judah: and to have ascribed unto him e Vide Council Lateran sess. 10 in orat Stephan, Patracensi 10 power above all powers in heaven and in earth: yea, f Papa, excepto peccato potest quasi ommia facere, quae potest Deus. Panorm ex Hostiens, Extrau, de Translat, Praelat. cap, quanto, in glossa. power to be able to do all things that God can do, except sin only. 3 Because he suffereth himself to be called g Papa est causa causarum, et non est de eius potestate quaerendum, cum primae causae nulla sit causa Bald. in c. eccles, ut lite pendente, causam causarum, the cause of causes, which title the very heathen h Arist, 2, Metaph. cap, 1. Philosophers knew to be proper to God. 4 Because he suffereth himself to be called i Cupres de eccles. pag. 61, num, 52 kRomans. 13, 19 Deum vindictae, the God of revenge: which title God doth appropriate to himself, saying, ᵏ vengeance is mine: I will repay. 5 Because he suffereth your Canonists to call him Lord God, even in that new l Impress, Lugduni anno Dom. 15 55. edition which by the authority of Pope Gregory the 13. was corrected and published. Their words are these: m Extrau, de maior, et obedientia. credere Dominum Deum nostrum papam, conditorem dictae decretalis, et istius, non sic potuisse statuere prout statuit, haereticum censeatur: To believe that our Lord God the Pope the author of this, and the aforesaid decretal, could not decree; as, he hath decreed, it aught to be judged heretical. 6 Because he is said to be n Extrau in johan 22. ac Christus Deus, ens secundae intentionis, A GOD as well as CHRIST, and a being of the second intention. 7 Because he looketh to be feared of men as much as God, yea more than God as appeareth by the complaint of Frederick the second: o Fredericus 2. epist. ad Othou, Bavar. ducem, apud Aventinum, l. 7 Papae affectant dominationem et divinitatem, atque ut ab hominibus haud imo magis quam Deus timeatur: Popes affect Lordship and divinity, and that they may be feared of men no otherwise than God, yea, more than God. 8 Because he taketh upon him to command the Angels of heaven; for so we read, that Clement the 6. in his bull concerning those that should come to Rome to celebrated the iubiley, * Prorsus mandamus Angelis Paradisum etc. Clement. 6, in Bulla de jubil, ● commanded the Angels, that if any one should die in that journey, they should bring their souls, being wholly freed from Purgatory, into the glory of Paradise. 9 Because he maketh his own decrees, constitutions, and traditions, of equal authority to the sacred word of God, and enjoineth men to receive and honour them p Council, Trident. sess. 4. Pari pietatis affectu acreverentia, with as great affection of piety and reverence, which injunction a certain q jacobus Nachiantes Clodiae fossae Episcopus Magister sacri palatij Romae, ad legatos Bohemicos sub Felice Papa pag. 144 Bishop in the Tridentine Counsel, misliked, but he was therefore expelled out of the Counsel, by the Pope's Legate. 10 Because he suffereth the master of his palace, * Quitacet consentire videtur. to give unto him (he not ʳ gainsaying it) power to s Silvester Priereas, contra Luther, Conclus, de Potestate Papae. change the holy Gospel, and to give unto the Gospel, according to place and time, an othersense. 11 Because he suffereth another master of his palace, to saverre, that the authority of the Church and Pope of Rome, is greater, than the authority of the Scripture. 12 Because he taketh upon him, to abrogate the law of God, yea, to t George Douly leaveth the ● commandement quite out, in his rehearsal of the commandeméts See his plain instruction, or rather his destruction. take the second commandment quite out of the decalogue and to v Idem, S, 8 divide the last commandment into two, against all reason, and x Vide Origen. homil, 8, in Exod. Chrysost. homil, 49, in Math, et Athanasium in synopsi scripturarum antiquity. 13 Because he taketh upon him, to x Vide Extrau. commun. lib, 5. tit, 9 cap, 4. Paulum Aemilium lib, 7 Orat. Innocent. 22. in come. Suffrag. fol. 132. pro defunctis et, Balaeum in vita Leonis. 10. forgive sins, which is a proper action of the Godhead, as the very y Mark. 2. 7. Scribes denied not. 14 Because he suffereth his Canonists to give unto him, a z potestas in diuiois leges ordinare in Romano pontifice residet. Michael Modina in christian. para naesi. lib, 7, cap. 17, power over the laws of God, yea to dispense a Distinct, 38, lector, et dist. 8 7. presbyter. against the Apostle, and b Felin. de constit. cap, statut; Canonum; against the whole new restament also. Now (to wound them with their own quills) c Antonin part. 3 tit. 22. cap. 6 inpraecepto superior is none debet dispensare inferior, the inferior may not dispense with the commandment of the superior. By these particulars it appeareth not only that the Pope challengeth those things which are Gods, but that he advanceth himself above God, and showeth himself that he is God▪ and so consequently, that he is that man of sin, that son of perdition and that adversary, prophesied of by Saint Paul: 2. Thess. 2. But to come unto the second title which you give unto the Pope; if the Pope be (as you say he is) the successor of Peter, then should he teach you with Peter, d Pet, 2, 13, 14. to submit yourselves unto all manner of ordinance of man for the lords sake, whether it be unto the King, as unto the superior, or unto governors, as unto them that are sent of him. But the Pope teacheth you, not to submit yourselves to your Sovereign, but to murder your Sovereign, and to take arms against them. e Volumus et iubem us ut ad versus Elizabetham Angliae reginam subditi arma capessant. Bulla Pij Quinti. We will & command (said that impious Pope Pius) subjects of England to ᶻ take arms against Elizabeth the Queen: William Parrie (said f See Cardinal como's letter before allead god. Pope Gregory the 13) shall receive merit in heaven, is he can make away his Sovereign: yea g See the defence of English Catholics. c 5 subjects (say the defenders of our English Catholics) may take their Sovereigns, and hang them up upon gibbets against the sun, and to prove this, they allege Numbers 25. 4. The Lord said to Moses take all the heads of the people and hung them up before the Lord against the sun. But if these defenders were not more than blind, they would perceive this their treacherous illation to be erroneous: for first, the Lord commanded this revenge to be taken; and secondly, the Magistrate was appointed to be the revenger. They do therefore erroneously and treacherously infer upon this, that subjects may hang up their Sovereigns, seeing that subjects are no sovereign Rulers; and have also a strait commandment from the Lord, h Psal, 105, 15 not to touch his anointed. Yea, this place is so far from making for you, as that indeed it maketh much against you, for seeing that you are idolaters, it may hear be gathered, that his highness may lawfully take the chief of you, and hang you be fore the Lord against the sun, as Moses did the chief idolatrous Israelites. Nay, it is (in all humility be it spoken,) his bounden duty to do it: for (as saith saint Cyprian alleging this very precept, and i Deut, 13▪ 9 another of the same k Communis juris. nature) l Cyprian in libello de Exhor tatione martyrij. si ante adventum Christi, circa deum colendum, et idola spernenda haec praecepta seruata sunt, quanto magis post adventum Christi servanda sunt? But to return again to your Romish Cannibals ʳ: what was the cause that moved them, to attempt the murdering of the king's majesty and the whole Senate of the Parliament? The Recusant. Truly they are thereunto moved (as both Guido, Fawkes, and Thomas Winter m See their concessions. confessed, only for Religion and conscience sake; they are therefore (me thinks) more to be borne withal. The Minister. They are never a whit the more to be borne withal: for it is not lawful for subjects, to attempt the murdering of their Sovereign for religion sake, or for any other pretence soever. Go with Cresset and Torch light throughout the whole book of God, and throughout the spacious volumes of the Ancient fathers, and tell me whether any priest high or low, or Levite, Prophet, Evangelist, Apostle, ancient Father, ever hath taught, counseled, and much less practised the like, I say not against lawful magistrates, but tyrannous rulers, and such as were by the express sentence of God reprobated. To produce a few examples, jeroboam was an Idolatrous king, & n 1. Reg, 12, 28 29. made two calves of gold; and set the one in Bethel, and the other in Dan, nevertheless the man of God that came out of judath albeit he o 1. Reg, 13 reprehended the king, and foretold him the ruin of his Realm: yet did he not persuade any of his subjects to murder him, or any foreigner to make war against him. King Ahab p 1. Reg, 16, 3●. walked in the sins of jeroboam the son of Nebat, and took jezabel the daughter of Ethbaal king of the Zidonians to wife, and went and served Baal, and worshipped him. And the lords Prophets were so evil entreated in his time, as that they were q 1, Reg, 18, 4 hid in caves an hundredth in one cave, and an hundredth in an other, and there fed with bread and water. Yea some of them were slain by jezabel. Notwithstanding r 1, Reg, 18, 18 all this Eliiah the chief Prophet of that time, albeit he reproved AHAB, because he had forsaken the commandements of the LORD, and had served Baalim: Yet did he not incite any to murder either the KING, or the QUEEN. In the time of the Prophet Isaiah, the Princes were so wicked, as that he cried out against them, saying: s Esay, 1, 23, 24 Thy Princes are rebellious and companions of thieves, every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards, they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the widows cause come before them. Therefore saith the lord God of Hosts the mighty one of Israel: Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies. t Verse 26 And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy Counsellors as at the beginning. Thus did the holy Prophet complain of the exactions of the Princes, showed them their faults, admonished them of God's vengeance, & foretold them of their restoring of the good judges▪ and counsellors: he did not animate, encourage, and incite the people to avenge themselves of their princes, and to lift up arms against them, as the Pope doth. The Prophet Amos also noteth the vices of the Princes in his time, and calleth them the v Amos 4, 1, kine of Basan, which oppressed the poor and destroyed the needy. The Prophet Micha taxeth them, for x Mich, 3, 2 plucking off the skins of the people, and their flesh from their bones. And the Prophet y Zephan. 3▪ 3 Zephaniah calleth them roaring Lions, and their judges ravening wolves: all which titles give sufficient testimony, that the Rulers & judges in their times were very wicked men, and such as did grinned the saces of their subjects. And yet all this notwithstanding they did not advise the subjects to mutiny or rebel against their Princes. Yea the captive jews in Babylon, were so far from seeking to take away the life either of Nabuchodonosor the king of Babylon, or of Balthasar his son, as they wrote to their brethren at jerusalem, to z Baruch, 1, 11 pray for the life of Nabuchodonosor King of Babylon, and for the life of Balthasar his son that their days might be upon earth, as the days of heaven, and that God would give them strength, & lighten their eyes, etc. And answerable hereunto is that advise which the Prophet jeremy gave the captives in the 29 of his prophecy, though in words somewhat different, a jerem, 29, 7, seek the prosperity of the City, whether I have caused you to be carried away captive; and pray unto the Lord for it: for in the peace thereof shall you have peace, But to come nearer Christ's time, john Baptist the forerunner of Christ, saw in his time b Herode Idu mean. a counterfeit jew usurping the Realms of Galilee and jury; and knew well enough that the Romans were Gentiles and idolaters; and that they had deprived the people of Israel of their liberty, and unjustly brought them to be tributary unto them: And yet notwithstanding, when the c Luk, 2, 14 soldiers demanded of him, saying, what shall we do? he said unto them, do violence to no man etc., he said not, revolt against the Empire, or take arms against the Romans. Yea albeit, he knew that his death was plotted by Herodias; yet did he not animate his disciples to murder her or Herod, neither practised he any mean to escape, but submitted his neck to the excutioner. And to come to Christ himself, he was so far from blowing up houses with powder, and from making a fiery massacre of those that were not of his religion, as that he d Luk, 9, 59 reproved the wish of saint Iames and Saint john, who desired that fire might come down from heaven, and consume the Samaritans because they received him not. And he was so far from making Princes to pay tribute to him, as that he e Math. 17. 27 paid tribute himself, and being demanded whether it were lawful to pay tribute or not, he answered thus: f Math. 22. 21 give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. Yea, when the officers of the jews took him and bound him, he forbade Peter to use the sword, saying: g john 18, 11, put up thy sword in the sheath. He said not to Peter, as Catesby said to Winter: * See Thomas Winter's confession. stad by me Tom, and we will die together. There was also great difference between the Disciples of Christ, and the Disciples of Antichrist, for we read, that when Saint Peter was held prisoner by King Herode, there was earnest prayer h Act. 12 5 made of the Church unto God for him; and not any jesuitical plot laid by them, thereby to deliver him, yea he enjoined the Church to i Pet. 2. 17 honour their king. To omit the rest, S. Paul exhorteth Timothy to make k 1. Tim 2, ●. supplications, prayers, intercessions, & giving of thanks for all men, for Kings etc. albeit such as reigned in his time were pagan & idolaters. And agreeable hereunto was the practice of the primitive Church, as Tertullian plainly showeth; l Ter tull. Apol. cap. 30. Nos (saith he, describing the prayers which the old Christians of their loyal affections made for their heathen governors) precamur pro omnibus imperatoribus vitam prolixam, imperium securum, domum tutam exercitus fortes, populum probum, orbem quietum: we pray for all Emperors, that God would bestow upon them a long life, a peaceable government, a safe palace, strong armies, obedient subjects, and a quiet world. To which let us add the practice of S. Ambrose, who, when Valentinian required him to yield his Church, answered thus; * Ambros, lib. 5, Epist 32. with my consent I will never forego my right. If I be compelled, I have no way to resist: I can sorrow, I can weep, I can sigh, tears are my weapons; etc. In a word, * you neither carry (as a * The Earl of Salisbury in his late answer to certain seandalous papers pag. 11, et 12. noble Beraean hath well noted) the marks of Rome heathen, nor of Rome Christian; for under heathen Emperors the victories were scorned, which were barbarously gotten, mixtis veneno fontibus: And when Rome was pure and primitive, you shall find the arms of the Church were tears and prayers. But now their Oracles are so far degenerate from the former purity of that ancient Church, as they make murder spiritual resolution, and openly threaten the lives of Kings that are Gods breathing images; When the prophet David trembled to violate the skirt of King Saules garment. To make use hereof these ancient Romans shall in judgement rise against you, & condemn you; for they conspired not the death of pagan, Infidels, & tyrants, that made havoc of the church of god; but you wish & watch to destroy the most christian king, to overturn the little world of his dominion, to shake the pillars thereof with mutinies & seditions, & reple nish it with worse than Catilinarie conspiracies. The Recusant. Sir, although some of us have wished & watched to destroy the king; yet all of us have not: you must not condemn all for some. The Minister. Sir, I condemn you not all; but I condemn the religion of you all: for your religion bindeth you all to attempt the like. Populus Christianus (saith m Creswell. in suo ●pilopat●r pag, 201 one of your seducers) obsistere tenetur conscientiae vinculo arctissimo, et extremo animarum periculo; si praestare rem possit, Christian people are strictly bound in conscience, and hazard of their souls, to make the like resistance, if that they be able to perform it. And, excusandi sunt Angli (saith an other) qui non se eximunt ex superiorum potestate, necbellum contra eos gerunt; quia non suppetunt illis vires, the English Catholics, who n Bannes in 20 28. Thom. quaest. 12. art, 2 exempt not themselves from the power of their superiors, and who wage not war against the Protestants in that Land, are in some sort to be excused because they have not sufficient power. Out of these words of Bannes and Creswell, I gather these two things. 1 That your religion bindeth you all to play the traitors, and to take up arms against your country. 2 That the reason why you do not take arms against your country, is only because you have not power sufficient to match us: for had you sufficient power, your Romish Doctors would hold you inexcusable, if you did it not. You may therefore fitly be compared to serpents, which may be handled, whilst the cold hath benumbed them; but when they are warmed, they will hiss out their venomous poison. My meaning is no mystery: if you be harboured a while longer in the bosom of this common wealth, you will in time get such warmth, & become of such a competent strength, as that you will be able to match us, if not overmatch us. But I doubt not, but that his Majesty and the state will look to this betimes, and not nurse up Lions whelps for their own overthrow, as Amilcar brought up his sons for the ruin of Rome. I will therefore leave you to the justice of his Majesty and the state, who know well enough, that it behoneth wise Princes (as a great * The Earl of Salisbury in his late answer to certain scandalous papers pag: 10. statesman hath well observed) to keep down faction, which is ever humble till it get the key of power. And now let me entreat you, to confer with me about some point of Religion. The Recusant. I will confer with you no longer, The Minister. Why will you not? The Recusant. Because you are (to use Doctor Hardings' term) a a Harding in his confession foll. 222. Turkish Hugenote. The Minister. A Turkish Hugenote? Sir, if you will vouchsafe to confer with me a while, I will prove that you are Turkish and not we. The Recusant. Are Roman Catholics Turkish? The Minister. Yes, as may appear by these Semblances which I have observed betwixt them and you. The 1. Semblance. The Turks at this day, for all that b Sozom. lib. 6 cap, 38, histories make plain mention, and themselves also cannot deny, but that they took their first beginning from Agar the bond woman: yet for the very name and stocks sake, they choose rather to be called Saracens, as though they came of Sara the free woman. So you, although you be (as I have formerly proved) abominable heretics; yet do you challenge this title to be called Catholics. But c This surname Catholic was not used in the Apostles time. Biblioth, sacra tom 3. ad Sympronian. Novation. de Cathol. nomine Epist. 1 sub Apostolis (as saith Pacianus an ancient father) nemo Catholicus vocabatur, under the Apostles no man (though Baronius saith the contrary) was called Catholic. And albeit, cum post Apostolos, haereses d Annalium eom 1, pag, 3. 9 extitissent, diversisque nominibus columbam Dei atque e This surname Catholic was used after the Apostles time and that by the Apostolic people▪ Pacian. ibid. reginam lacerare per parts, & scindere niterentur, cognomen suum plebs Apostolica postulabat, quo incorrupti populi distingueret unitatem, neintemeratam Dei virginem, error aliquorum per membra laceraret, when after the Apostles there were heresies, and men began to rend in pieces and divide God's Dove and Queen, by sundry different names; the apostolic people required their surnames, whereby they might distinguish the unity of the uncorrupt people, lest the error of time, should rend in sunder Gods undefiled Virgin: yet see I no reason, why you should require the same Surname which the apostolic people did, seeing that you embrace not that doctrine which they maintained, but the heresies which they condemned, as I showed you at large in our first, second, and third days conference. But it is no marvel, to here you entitle your congregations by the name of the Catholic Church: for (as saith Lactantius) f This surname Catholic was, and is challenged by heretics. Singnli quique haereticorum coetus se potissimum Christianot & suam esse catholicam ecclesiam putant: every conventicle of heretics do imagine themselves to be true Christians, and their Church the Catholic Church. But I proceed to another Semblance. The 2 Semblance. The Turks (as I have showed already) called themselves Saracens, of Sara: so do some of your Popish Friars call themselves Franciscans of saint Francis; and others call themselves Dominicans of Saint Dominicke; for which cause we may justly hold you to be the synagogue of Antichrist: for (as an ancient a Hieron. advers. Luciferia● father saith) si cubi audieris eos qui dieuntur Christiani, non a Domino jesu Christo, sed a qu●quam alionuncupari, puta Marcionitas, Valentinianes, Montenses, Campates, scito non ecclefiam Chisti, sed Antichristi esse synagogam, whensoever thou shall here those, that are called Christians not to have their name from our Lord jesus Christ, but from some other, as Marcionites, Valentinians, Montenses, Campates, know thus much, that they are not the Church of Christ, but the synagogue of Antichrist. We may also for the same cause, hold you to be carnal b 1 Cor, 3 4 , for when one saith, I hold of Paul, and another, I hold of Apollo's, are ye not carnal? The 3: Semblance: By succession the Turk at this day possesseth and holdeth the 4: great Patriarkal Sees of the Churches of Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and jerusalem, which were once sanctuaries of Religion, and places of greatest faith and devotions: so by succession the Pope challengeth at this day the See of Rome, which was once (I deny not) the eye of the west, and the anchor of true piety. The 4. Semblance. Albeit the Church of Rome was once the eye of the west, and the true Church of God; yet fell she away from God into idolatry and Apostasy, about the year of our Lord 607. for in the year 602, did Gregory the first (who was the last true and godly Bishop of Rome) c In lib. 6. Epist 30. avouch this solemnly as a manifest truth, that whosoever did take to himself the name of universal Bishop, the same was Antichrist. Now five years after, viz: in the year 607. did Boniface the third (who was the first Antichristian Bishop of Rome) take unto himself the title of universal Bishop, and since him all his successors have taken unto them the same Antichristian title. Now as this Antichristian Pope arose in the Western Churches in the year of our Lord 607. So did Mahomet arise in the Eastern Churches about the same time, as is proved in sundry d Vide Euthymium Zigaben. in Elench Isma. elit. Vincentius Beluacens. lib, 23, cap, 39 Breidenbachius in hist suae Peregrin. Philippus Lonicerus, in Turcic. Hist, Laonicus Chalcondilus de rebus Turcicis lib. 3 N●uclerus Generate. 22, & Danaeus in Auguit, de haeres, cap. 96, books extant to the view of the word. The Recusant: It is true indeed, that Mahomet arose in the Eastern Churches, about that time, in the reign of the Emperor Heraclius: but I deny that there arose up any Antichristian Pope in the western Churches about the same time. The Minister. Well, to make it most evidently appear unto you; the aforesaid vain glorious e Bonifacius▪ tertius. prelate, in the year 607. began to dispute, that Rome was always the Lady of the whole World: and therefore that it was meet that the Bishop of that City should go before other Bishops in degree and dignity. Now to attain this, was a thing most difficult: for albeit that the Emperor did let it slip; yet did the Bishops of other nations confidently gainsay him alleging lawful causes why they withstood him: unwilling to acknowledge the Bishop of Rome, otherwise then for a brother, companion and in power equal with them. Notwithstanding all this, the said Maleface of Rome desisted not but continually urged to attain unto his purpose, until he had by many requests and gifts obtained of wicked Phocas the Emperor (who murdered his Master the Emperor Mauritius and his children, to come to the Empire, and was after slain himself by Heraclius that succeeded him) that he might be called the head of the Catholic and universal Church, or the ecumenical and universal Bishop. which title of blasphemy, when as john the Patriarch of Constantinople had challenged not long before, viz. about the year 602. Pope Gregory f Fidenter dico quod quisqui ● se universalem sacerdotem vocat vel vocari desiderat, in ela tione sua Antichristum praecurrit, Greg. lib, 6, epist, 30 affirmed confidently that therein he was the forerunner of Antichrist: that the g Rex, superbiae prope est, et quod dici nefas est, sacer do tum ei praeparatur exercitus Greg, lib, 4, epist, 38 king of pride (meaning Antichrist) was then at hand, and had an army of priests (thereby insinuating that he should be the Prince of priests) prepared for him. Now the Pope is your Prince of Priests, (for so Cardinal h Bellarm. de Pontif. Rom, lib, 2, cap, 38 Bellarmine calleth him) who far exceedeth john of Constantinople, in all Antichristian pride; challenging a sovereign and universal authority not only above all other Bishops and Priests, but also above all Princes and Potentates. By this than it appeareth, that the Church of Rome did then become Antichristian, when the said Pope Boniface took unto him and his successors the title of Vuiversall and Catholic Bishop. And about the same time (as hath been showed) did Mahomet arise in the Eastern Churches. I proceed now to other Semblances. The 5. Semblance. This Mahomet was an Arabian and an Ismaelite, i Vide, Au. Danaen, in ang, de haeres, cap, 96. and took wages of the Emperor Heraclius, to serve him in his wars. And when the Saracens & Arabians revolted from the Emperor, he encouraged them in their defection, and in this mutiny he was chosen to be a commander of these Rebels. Thus growing from a seditious soldier, to be a captain of a rebellious host, he with his mahometical forces subdued Phoenicia, Palestina, Syria, Mesopotamia, and divers other countries. And as for the CHRISTIANS, he made havoc of them as sundry writers do testify. ᵍ Sophron epist, ad Sergium in Synod. 6 Constantinop▪ Act. 11, Zonaras tom, 3 Annual. Vincent. Beluacons, lib, 23, Paulus Diaconus lib, 18 Histor, et Simo neta lib. 1, epist. Now to apply this, as the Saracens were traitors to the Emperor Heraclius, so were the Popes to the Emperors and Princes of Christendom: for first the Emperors of Greece by the Pope's rebellious opposition against their Sovereign Lords, in the ungodly defence of images, were bereaved of their dominions in the west: by which means the Empire being rend asunder, way was made for the Turk. And although at the first, they seemed to honour their newly erected Emperors in the west, 4. whom they created for their own defence; yet afterwards they never ceased until they had gotten superiority over them. And ever since it hath been their practice to strengthen and advance themselves, by weakening and dejecting the Emperor, and all other Christian Princes, as much as they could. The 6. Semblance. Mahomet h Vide vincent lib, 23. cap. 4 1 specal, histor i Platinain Bon ifacio. 7 committed many robberies and such like villainies: so we read, that Boniface the 7. (having gotten the Popedom by ill means) rob Saint Peter's Church of all the jewels and precious things he could found, and so ran his ways. But to insist in that which is fresh in memory, there was lately k See the discourse of the late intended treason, pag, 48 one Grant a Gentleman who having associated unto him some others of his opinion, all violent Papists and Recusants, came to a l At warwicke. Stable of one Benocke a rider of great horses, and having violently broken up the same, stole out all the great horses that were therein, to the number of seven or eight, belonging to divers Noblemen and Gentlemen, who had put them into the rider's hands to be made fit for their service. But not to speak only of the robberries of these traitors, it is one of your decrees, made and decreed amongst the Papists, that m Haereticis licitum est aufer ri quae habent Decret, Papale apud, Grat, cause 15, q glossa. it is lawful to rob Protestants (whom you call Heretics) of their goods. The 7. Semblance. Mahomet n Vide Vincet. lib, 23, cap, 41 specul, hist. committed many bloody murders: and so have the Popes. To make this plain by enumeration of particulars, it is o A Ben, Cardinal. said that Gregory the 7. poisoned six Popes to make himself a way to the Papacy, and sought to murder Henry the Emperor as he was at his prayers in the Church p Vide Matth Paris in Henric 3. : and that Innocentius the 4 sought to poison Conrade the Emperor; There was also a massacre intended in the Church of Florence, and julianus Medici's murdered by the q Vide Raphael Volateran. et Politian, de con jurat. pact. appointment of Pope Sixtus the 4. jomit Vrbanus the 6. who r Vide Cyprian de Valerain Vrban, 6 put five of his Cardinals into sacks, and drowned them, because they favoured Clement the 7. and Alexander the 6. who commanded Antonius Mancinellus his tongue, and both his hands to be cut off, because he made an invective oration against his impure life: and who was so cruel, as that a s Zanzarius. famous man of that time an excellent Poet, made these verses of him. Pollicitus calum Romanus, et astra sacerdos, Per scelera et caedes adstygapandit iter. that is, the Roman Bishop, who promised heaven to other men, is gone himself to hell, by reason of his villains and murders. I come to Stephanus the 6. and Sergius the 3. who were so barbarously cruel, as that they t Vide Martin, Polon, anno 898. et 907, et Platin. in Stephan. 6, et Serg. 3. pulled Formosus their predecessor out of his grave, the one cutting of his fingers, the other his head, and cast his carcase into Tiber. And Sixtus the last was (as your own u Quod lib. 3 art, 2, pag, 57 Quodlibetaries' report) so full of cruelty, heresy, and villainy, as that the Jesuits preached openly in Spain against him, * It seems that Pope Sixtus was better than other Popes; otherwise the Jesuits would not have railed on him in this sort. railing on him, and calling him a Lutheran heretic, a wolf and what not? Yea Cardinal Bellarmine being asked by one, what he thought of his death answered thus: Conceptis verbis, quantum capio, quantum sapio, quantum intelligo, descendit ad infernum, as far as I can perceive, understand, and apprehended, our Pope is gone to hell; Lo, this doth Bellarmine writ (as it were) upon the tomb of one of your Popes, as the people of Sicilia wrote (abusing an article of Athanasius creed) upon the tomb of a cruel Viceroy of theirs, o Theatre du monde lib, 2. Hic jacet, etc. Quipropter nos bomines Et nostram salutem, Descendit ad inferos. But what do I insist upon the immane cruelty of Popes towards those that are of their own religion? let us take a view of their brutish immanity towards those that are of the contrary religion, what can I speak of this? nay rather what can I not speak? how hideous are the torments that are invented by the Pope, and inflicted by his inquisitors upon Protestants in foreign Countries. First p Vide Reginaldum Gon salvium Monta num in detectione Inquisit. fol 23, 24, 25, 26. et 27. they command an officer, to have the imprisoned Protestant into a certain place where the Rack standeth, which commonly is a deep and a dark dungeon under the ground, with many a door to pass thorough ere a man can come unto it, because such as are put thereto, should not be heard to shriek or cry. In the which place there is a scaffold reared, where the Inquisitor, the Provisor, and the Clerk do sit, to see the anatomy made of him that is brought thitherto. Then the links being lighted, and all the Players entered that have parts in this Tragedy, the Executioner, who tarrieth last to make all fast (as they say) and to see every man in before him, cometh also at the length, and of himself alone maketh a show worthy the sight, more than all the rest of that rout, being wholly arrayed all over from the top of his head, to the sole of his foot in a suit of black canvas, such as superstitious people wear on Mandy Thursday when they scourge and whip themselves, as the custom is in most places under Popery, if not in all (much like that apparel which the devils in stage plays use here with us in England) moreover his head is covered with a long black hood that reacheth over all his face having two little peep holes to see thorough, & all to this end, to make the poor soul the more afraid both in body and mind, to see one torment him in the likeness of a devil. After the Lords be set down each in their places, they begin with him again, and exhort him afresh to speak the truth freely and voluntarily: otherwise at his own peril be it. For if either his arm, or his leg, or any other joint be broken in the rack, as it happeneth to divers, so that he chance to die thereof (for more gently than so they mean not to deal with them) let him blame no man but himself: for they think that after they have given him this fair warning, they are now discharged in conscience both before God & man, & therefore are guiltless, what harm soever come unto him by means of the Rack, yea though he die thereon as innocent as the child newly borne. After this, with sharp rebukes and menacing words, they command, that the party be stripped stark naked, be it he or she, yea, though it were one well known to be the most honest and chaste maiden or matron in all the City (as they be never lightly without sundry such in this their shambleses) whose grief (no doubt) is not half so great in respect of any torments, that presently they endure, as it is to beeseene naked in such a presence. But to proceed, when they are stripped naked, they draw on a close linen breech, and then the Lords signify to the tormentor by some token, in what sort they would have the party punished: for as their torments be in number many; so in sorts they be sundry. But the most usual be the jeobite, and Pullie with water, cords and fire. Yet, before they inflict these torments upon them, they persuade them to utter whatsoever they know either by themselves, or by others of their acquaintance; in the mean space while they are thus commoning with him, one cometh behind him, and bindeth his hands with a cord, eight or ten times about: and because nothing should be thought to be done without authority and order of law, the Inquisitor calleth upon him to strain each harder than other: Being thus bound to the Rack, they begin yet once again to persuade with him, and beside the binding together of his hands, they also 'cause his thumbs with some smaller line drawn very strait, and fasten both the lines that tie both his hands and thumbs, to a certain Pullie which hangeth on the jeobite. Then knock they great and heavy bolts upon his heels, if the party have none already, or else hung betwixt both his feet upon those bolts which he hath certain weights of iron, at the first time but five pound, and so hoist him up from the ground: Whiles the poor Protestant hangeth in this plight, they fall to their persuasions once again, commanding the hangman to hoist him up on high to the very bcame, till his hands touch the Pullie. Then crieth the Inquisitor and the Clerk upon him to confess somewhat. After that he hath hung a good space, and will grant nothing, they command him to be let down, and twice so much iron more to be laid on his heels, & so hoist him up again, one inch higher, if it may be; threatening him that he shall die none other death, except hee declare unto them the truth in such matters as they demand of him, and therefore charge the hangman to let him up and down, that the weight of iron hanging at his heels, may rend every joint in his body from other. At which intolerable pain, they bid the hangman slip the ropes suddenly, that he may fall down with a swinge, and in the half way stop and give him the Strappado: which being done all his body is out of frame, arms, shoulders, back, legs, and all the rest of his joints, by reason of the sway tearing each part from other. Then (if he will not then yield) they 'cause more iron to be added the third time: so that the silly Protestant being half dead and more, is by their commandment hoist up again, and to augment his grief they then begin to tail upon him, calling him dog and heretic. And if this pitiful creature do call upon Christ (as for the most, all that are persecuted for his truth sake do) then fall they (saith mine q Reginaldus Gonsaluius Montanus in loco citato. author) to mocking of him; saying jesus Christ, jesus Christ. Let jesus Christ alone, and tell us the truth; what a crying out upon Christ makest thou? confess what we ask thee, & makeus no more ado. And herein doth my author very fitly resemble them to the jews that mocked and derided Christ, saying; r Math, 27 Behold he calleth for Elias. He trusted in God, let him deliver him now, if he will have him. But to return to the Tragedy, if the party be let down promising to tell them somewhat, and perform it indeed, that is the very ready way to make him be worse handled then before, because they think that now he beginneth only to broach his matters. This horrible butchery continueth from nine of the clock in the morning till high none or an hour after: which being ended, the jailer beginneth to play the bonesetter so well as he can, & to put his arms and legs in their right joints again: and putting on his clotheses, bringeth him back to his prison, or rather carrieth him having never a leg to stand upon, yea sometime draggeth him by the arms or legs too too pitifully. And within two or three days, they sand for him forth again into the audience, and provide so, that in the way from the prison as he passeth by the place where the racke-stocke standeth, the hangman shall stand for the nonce to show himself in the said likeness of a devil, that the party in passing by, may have a sight of him, and thereby be occasioned the more to remember his former torments, who coming into the Court, findeth the inquisitor, the Ordinary, and the Clerk, ready set each man in his place, which after their manner fall in hand with him; at which time, if they cannot get any thing out of him, they 'cause him to be carried to prison again. But if he declare any thing, they press him the more; and such matter it may be his hap to disclose, that it may chance to purchase him the rack once more▪ upon hope of getting some greater matters at his hands. But if they were resolved before, to put the party to the rack once again, then about three days after his last being there, they send for him again to come before them: and what with earnest entreaty & terrible threats, they labour to have him shrive himself of all his opinions & heresies, (as they call them) and to appeach as well such persons with whom he hath had conference in such matters, as also all other whom he knoweth to be of the same mind. And if the poor Protestant continued constant than the keeper is commanded that once again he provide the rack, and strip him out of his clotheses, & put him either to the aforesaid torment or a worse, viz▪ after this manner. The Protestant having his hands bound behind him and hanging at the Pullie, they bind both his thighs together with strong cords, and so in like manner his legs about the calf. Then put they betwixt the cords and his legs a short piece of wood, wherewith they wrist the strings so stiff, till they be so deep sunk into his flesh that they are past sight: a very extreme and a terrible torment & much worse than any that he hath yet endured: In this pitiful plight, the poor soul lieth for the space of two or three hours, abiding the Inquisitors pleasures: who nevertheless cease not to flout him all this while, orinstead thereof they practise as they think best, another kind of torture, which albeit it be used upon offenders in other places as well as in that; yet fo● one especial point of cruelty added by them, we may justly ascribe it to their holy Court as a devise of Antichrist. The name of it is Buri or Aselli; and the manner of it is this. There is a great bench made out of whole Timber, wrought hollow in the upper part like a trough, so large that a man may lie open in it on his back, and thereabouts as his midriff lieth, there is a sharp bar going cross overth wart, whereon the parties back resteth that it cannot settle to the bottom, because he should have no ease: his heels also lying higher than his head, and his arms, thighs, and legs, bound with small cords, strained till they settle into the flesh and pierce almost to the very bone, in so much that they beclean out of sight: and then cometh in a new devise of their own, viz▪ they take a piece of linen cloth, and overspread the party's mouth there with as he lieth upright, so as it may stop his nostrils also, that when the water is powered into his mouth, he should take in no air at his nose. Then power they water upon the cloth, not by drops, but in the manner of a long stream, which beareth down the cloth into the furthest part of his throat: so that when they pluck it out of the bottom of his throat (as many times they do,) the cloth is so wet with water and blood together, that a man would think the very entrails come out of his body. To conclude, some are tormented there in another sort, viz: they take a pan full of hot coals, which they set against the soles of Protestants feet, before he go to the aforesaid Rack, and to the end that the fire may have more force to brusle them, they baste them with lard or bacon. Lo, here you see, what grievous torments the Papists use to bring men to their pretended Catholic Religion; and yet our Popish Recusants (forsooth) are grown so delicate, that neither religion nor obedience may be forced on them: for (the f Doctor Hill his quartron of Reasons of Catholic religion, pag. 182. word being now out of their bloody hands) they complain of rigour, and cry out, that we do greatly offend God here in England, in forcing people to go to the Church contrary to their consciences. But the time was, when they cared little for driving us to sin against our conscience; the strange torments they devised and practised on See Fox. Act. et Mon. lib, 11 Rogers, Sanders, Hooper, Taylour, Tomkins, Bradford, Ridley, Latimer, and divers others of our Country men, to compel them from the confession of the true Catholic faith without any regard had of their consciences, can witness the same. Now what reason can they bring that they may enforce others, and none must enforce them? To conclude, this particular, it appeareth also by ● Revel, 17. 6 this Tragedy that the Whore of Babylon is drunken with the blood of Saints, and with the blood of the Martyrs of jesus. God almighty stir up the hearts of Christian Princes, that they may not only hate the said whore of Babylon, but also (according to the Prophecy of the Holy Ghost) v Revel, 18. 9 Reward her even as she hath rewarded the Saints of jesus, and give her double according to her works: and in the cup that she hath▪ filled them, fill her the double. The 8. Semblance. Mahomet was (as sundry x Vincont li, 23 specul, hist, et Zigaben in Elencho Ismaelit writers testify) a great Magician, and kept a dove, that revealed (as he informed the people) sundry things, so were some of your Pope's known Necromancers & sorcerers. To y Vide Cyprian de valera, in Benedict, 9 insist in some particulars, Benedict the 9, alias the 8, was wont in woods and mountains, to sacrifice to the devil, & by magical art to allure women unto him & to make them follow him up & down like Cades: he kept also a sparrow that brought him news from all Quarters. And (as it is in the Spanish proverb) Perque de mal Cuerno mal bueno, of an evil Crow an evil egg: for the said Pope z Ibidem. had two Cardinals, namely, Laurentius, and Gracianus, that were such Necromancers, as that they knew what passed in the East, West, North, Platina in sylvest 2▪ Sabellic, Enead 9 lib▪ 2, Volateran, lib, 22, Bergomas lib, 12. johan. de Pineda part. 3. lib, 19, cap▪ 15▪ Cyprian de Valera in sylvest, 2, and South. And we read in sundry Writers, that Sylvester the 2. even from his youth gave himself to enchantments, and witchcraft; and that (the better to effect his enchantments) he made a covenant with the Devil, and be took himself both body and soul to the Devil, conditionally; that the Devil should help him to great preferment: and that by his wicked Art he came first to be Bishop of Rheims, and afterwards Archbishop of Ravenna, & in the end Pope of Rome. And not to rake any longer in this dunghill of Popes; all the Popes from the said Silvester to Gregory the 7. were known Necromancers. The 9 semblance. b Vincentius lib, 23, specul. Hist. Mahomet was a whoremonger, & given to all kind of impurity: so have many of your Popes been. To begin with Alexander the 6. he not being contented with other strumpets which he kept, by whom he c Vide Onuphrium in Alex and. 6, had quatuor filios, et duas filias, four bastard sons, and two bastard daughters, committed incest with his own daughter Lucretia, as witnesseth johannes iovinianus Pontanus in his Epitaph upon Lucretia the daughter of the said Pope. The Epitaph is this. d Pontan, Tumul, lib▪ 2, in tumulo Lucreriae Alexandri filiae. Hoc tumulo dormit Lucretia nomine, s●dre: That is; Alexandri filia, sponsa, nurus. here lieth Lucretia in name, indeed a shameless whore; the daughter of Alexander, her fathers and brother's harlot. adjoin hereunto Paulus the 3, who e Sleidan, in Com. committed incest with two of his Nices, prostituted one of his sisters to Alexander the 6. to get a Cardinalship, and poisoned another, because she affected some other of her lovers more than himself: and who (not staying here in these vile lusts, which were not yet against nature) fell into unnatural filthiness, even into the sin of Sodom. Of Sixtus also the 4. it is said, that he was a filthy Sodomite, and that to incite and encourage others to the same filthiness, he m Agrippa de Vanitate Scient cap. de lenocinio. built a sumptuous Stews in Rome, appointing it to be both masculine and feminine, and gave licence (as n 2, Vesselus' Groninigensis tracked▪ de indulgent. Gronningensis saith) to the Cardinal of Saint Lucy, and to all his family, that they might in june, july, and August, freely use Sodomy. And it is o Herman Contract. & Paralip▪ Urs. perg. recorded, that Clement the fifth was a public fornicator, and kept a certain beautiful Countess as his Paramour. Gregory the seventh p Pizarrus in Hist, Gennens. was also very familiar with another Countess in his time. And Innocentius the eighth was such a common whoremonger, as that he had sixteen bastards by several strumpets, as these verses give sufficient testimony. q Marul▪ de Innocent. 8. Octo nocens pueros genuit totidemque puellas. Huic merito, poterit dicere Roma Patrem: That is, Innocent begat eight sons, and just so many daughters; Rome therefore might justly call him Father. I omit john the twelfth, who r Luitprand Ticinenfis lib. 6▪ cap, et 7. et Martin. Polon. in anno 986. gave orders in his Stable, amongst his Horses; abused his Father's Concubine, & made his Palace a Stews, put out his ghostly Father's eyes, gelded one of his Cardinals, drank to the Devil, and at Dices called for help of jupiter and Venus. I come to john the three and twentieth, of whom a whole Counsel saith thus: f Concil. Constant▪ sess▪ 11. A tempore iwentutis suae fuit homo malae in dolis, in verecundus, impudicus, mendax, parentibus suis rebellis et inobediens, plerisque vitijs deditus, actalis et pro tali fuit communiter dictus, tentus, creditus etreputatus ab omnibus. Et ad huc dicitur, tenetur, creditur, et reputatur pro tali, et ut talis: That is, john the five and twentieth from the very time of his youth, hath evermore been a man of an evil disposition, unshamefast, unchaste, alyar, unobedient to his Parents, and given to many other vices, and such an one, and for such an one, was he commonly named, holden, believed, taken, and reputed of all that knew him. And still is he named, holden, believed, and reputed such an one, and for such one. Add hereto Pope Nicholas the third, who begat t Cyprian de Valera in nicol. a child by his Concubine, which in nails and hair was like a Bear; which some impute to the pictures of Bears that he caused to be made in his house. And therefore Martin the fourth, who kept the same Concubine after him, fearing belike the like mischance, caused the pictures of the Bears to be taken away. But I will not warble any longer upon this untuneable harsh string, neither set down of the hundredth part of what I am able to justify out of credible Writers: for (to use the words of one that was afterward Pope himself) v Aeneas Syltrius de gestis Concil: Basil: lib: 1. De Romanis Pontificibus liceret exempla admodum multa adferre; si tempus sineret; qui aut haeretici, aut alijs imbuti vitijs, sunt reperti: If time would permit, I might bring forth very many examples of Roman Bishops, that were found either to be heretics, or else defiled with other vices. The 10 Semblance. Albeit Mahomet was (as hath been showed) very vicious; yet made he the Arabians believe, that he was x Breidenbach▪ de Peregrin. sua, cap. 3. Propheta, et nuntius Dei, a Prophet, and a messenger of God: so albeit the Pope be that man of sin spoken of in the 2. Chap. of the 2 Epist. to the Thesla, verse 2. Yet beareth he the world in hand, that he y johan. de Turrecremata, lib. 2. summae de eccles: cap, 26: is Vicarius Christi, Christ's Vicar upon earth. The 11 Semblance. Mahomet z Lonicerus de rebus Turcic & Breidenbach▪ de peregrin▪ sua professed himself to be both a Priest, and a King, and challenged to himself the power of both swords: so did Boniface the 8. when he a Vide Vspergens. caused the two swords to be borne before him, in a year of jubiley, thereby to show his power: and when he b Bonisacius de maior▪ et obed. cap. unum sanct. alleged that place in the Gospel, where one of Christ's Disciples said, ecce duogladij, behold two swords. The Pope's favourites also in these days, do solemnly dispute, that c R▪ Cupers pag. 251, Num. 62. the Empire or temporal rule, as well as the priesthood or ecclesiastical dominion, is translated unto the successor of Peter. The 12 Semblance. Mahomet boasted, that he had received d Zigaben. in Elench. Tas cleiss tou paradeisou, the keys of Paradise: so doth the Pope boast that he is e Dist. 22; cap, omnes. aeternae vitae claviger, the Keybearer of eternal life. And albeit it was avouched by the Scribes, and not denied by Christ, that f Marc, 2, 7: none can forgive sins but God only: yet doth the Pope take upon him to forgive sins, and to give heaven to whom it pleaseth him. Yea one of the Popes suffered the Ambassadors of Sicilia to lie prostrate on the ground, and thus to cry unto him, as if it had been unto Christ: g Vide Paulum Aemilium, lib, 7, Quitollis peccata mundi miserere nostri: qui tollis peccata mundi, dona nobis pacem: thou that takest away the sins of the world, give us peace. The 13. Semblance. Mahomet not only to gratify his companions, but also the more easily to allure all nations received all religions. As for example, to allure the jews, he exalted h Vide Alcora ni Azoar. 12, et 16, Moses, and retained circumcision; not to estrange the minds of Christians, he confessed Christ to be i Alcorani. Azoar 16. a Prophet and the Word of God; to please the Arrians and Cerdonians, he k Alcorani Azoar 9, et 11. said that Christ was not the very Son of God; to win the Pelagians, he l Alcorani Azoara 18, et 41 taught, that men may merit Heaven by their works. In a word, m Bibliander in prefat, in Alcor. Mahometismus ex veteribus haeresibus consutus est, Mahometisme is patched together of old heresies: So is Papisme like wise patched, as I showed you in our first, second, and third days conferences. The 14. Semblance. Mahomet composed of the traditions of the Hebrews, and other such like fables, his Alcoran, that is, a certain book: wherein are contained all those Turkish mysteries, and ceremonies that have no ground in the word of God: so have your Popes made you an Alcoran of Traditions, constitutions, tales & decretals. The 15. Semblance. The Turks make more account of Mahomet's Alcoran than of the sacred Scriptures: so do you make more account of the pope's Constitutions and Traditions, then of the Word of God; for you hold with Melchior Canus, that n Melchior Canus locor, Theol▪ lib. 3, fol. 98. for confounding of heretics there is greater strength in Tradition, than in the Scripture: and with Silvester Prierias, that o Silvester prierias contra Luther. conclus. de potestate Papae. iudulgences are warranted unto us, not by the authority of the Scripture, but by the authority of the Church & of the Pope of Rome, which, saith he, is greater. The 16. Semblance The Turks p Vide Ziga ben. in Elench. Ishmael. et Vincent. specul. hist. lib. 23. cap. 36. believe that Mahomet conferred with the Angel Gabriel and received their Alcoran from him: so do you labour to make simple people believe, that you received your traditions q Concil. Trident Sess. 5. from Christ & his Apostles. The 17, Semblance. The Turks (as the forenamed writers report) bear the world in hand, that their religion was confirmed by miracles, signs, and wonders; so do you. The 18. Semblaeuce. The r Alcorani Az● ara 10. Turks accounted some sins venial; so do s Guilielmus pe raldus Sum. Virtut▪ ac vitior. tom 2. cap. 20, you. The 19 Semblance. The t Alcorani. Azoara 23. Turks take whoredom to be either no sin at all, or if it be a sin, to be a very small sin: so do your popish shavelings, as appeareth by these words of Erasmus: u Erasmus in Enchyrid. mil. Christiani cap. 14. bona pars eorum, quos vulgus integros et in corruptos appellat, simplicem fornicationem, et moderatum voluptatis usum, ut leave commissum neutiquam effugiunt: a great part of those whom the common sort taketh for perfect and incorrupt men, do not a whit aborre simple fornication, and a sober use of pleasure, reckoning it to be but a petty fault. Yea, you accounted it to be so small a fault indeed, as that you hold that no Priest aught to be deposed from his benefice for single fornication. These be your express words in your own gloss upon the decrees: x Distinct. ●●. Presbyter. dicunt neminem hody propter fornicationem simplicem esse deponendum they say that for single fornication no man aught at this day to be deposed. And lest ye should miss▪ trust your gloss to be corrupted, it is also thus noted of purpose in great letters in the margin: Fornicationis causa hody nemo est deponendus: quia corpora a hody y Ibid in glossa. sunt fragiliora: not man now a days aught to be deprived for fornication: and that because our bodies are frailer, than they were wont to be. Panormitane also your greatest Canonist, saith thus: z Vide Extrau▪ de Consangui nit▪ et affinit, non debet, Abb. advarietatem temporum debent mutaristatu●a humana: ideo hody ex simplice fornicatione Clericus non deponitur: the laws of men aught to be altered, according to the change of times: and therefore now a days no priest is deposed for single fornication. And Archer the jesuite (as your secular a In their relation, pag▪ 47▪ ● Priests testify) defended this proposition, viz. that the stews are as lawful at Rome, as the Pope himself, or any order of Religion. The jesuite Weston likewise defended the same, against Doctor Bagshaw. The 20 Semblance. The b Multi Tureis sunt peculiares sancti, quorum alii a peregri nantibus, alii a parieutibus, alii a calamitosis, alii a viatoribus invocantur, Septencastrens. de Religion▪ Turcic▪ cap, 15. Turks ' pray to Saints, and have certain peculiar Saints, for peculiar purposes: so have you, as hereafter (God willing) shall be largely showed. The 21. Semblance. The c Menavin, de sepultura Turcar. Turks pray for the dead; so do you, and that especially when you go over any Churchyard saying: d Orat. pro De funct. in come. suffrag. fol. 132 Auete omnes anims fideles, quarum corpord hic et ubique requiescant in pulvere Dominus▪ jesus Christus qui vos et nos redemit suo pretiosissimo fanguine, dignetur vos apanis liberare, et inter choros suorum sanctorum Angelorum coll●care: etc. The 22, Semblance. The e Alchorani Azoara 10, 21, 25. Turks dream of a purgatory after this life: so do your dreaming f Bellarm. de purgat. lib. 1. cap. 1. et lib. 2, cap. 6 et Rhemist. in mat 12, sect, 66. Doctors, that there is a certain infernal place in the earth, called purgatory, in the which, as in a prison house, the souls which are not fully purged in this life, are there cleansed and purged by fire, before they can be received into Heaven. The 22. Semblance. The g Septemcastr. de Relig. Turc. cap. 15. Turks honour & reverence the sepulchres of their Saints: so do your h Bellarm. de reliquijs Sanctorum lib. 2. cap. 21. et council. Trident. sess. 25, Doctors teach you, that the relics of Saints, that is, their bodies, and bones, and sepulchres, where they are buried, are to be honoured and reverenced. The 23, Semblance. The i Septencast. de Relig. Turic. cap. 14, et Anton Menavin. cap. 15. et Breiden bac. de peregri not, sua cap, 3, Turks use to go on pilgrimage, to certain supposed holy places: so do some of you usually walk on your bore feet, with a Peregrine's staff in your hand, & with a scrip about your necks, to Saint james of Compostella, to the Lady of Lauretto, and to sundry other such like places. The 24, Semblance. The k Septemcast● de Relig▪ Turst cic. cap. 13, et Ri●her. lib, 2. demoribus Turcar. Turks were strictly commanded by Mahomet to pray five times a day; so are you Masse-mongring Priests l Innocent. in cap. 1, de cele brat. missar. enjoined to observe their Canonical hours. The 25. Semblance. Them Turks think their priests sufficiently learned, if that they can read their Koran, and their form of service: so do you accounted those Priests sufficiently m Anton, Genfreus lib, 2, de Relig. Turcic. learned, that can read the mass book. Witness one that was once the Pope's scholar, who thus reporteth of the Italian Priests: n john Nichols in his Recantation, The Priests in Italy for the most part are altogether unlearned. I demanded of some of these Italian Priests in the Italian tongue, whether God the Father, and God the holyghost had bodies, they answered, yea. The Scottish Priests also, (as their own Countryman reporteth of them) were found to be so blockish in the last reformation of Religion there, that the very o Novitatis no mine offensi condenterunt novum testa mentum nuper a Martino Luthero fuisse scriptum, ac vetus testamentum reposcerent. name of the new testament was much offensive to them, they thought it to be new devised and invented by Martin Luther, and asked for the old again. Yea, there was then a Bishop of Dunkelden there in the time of Popery, that replied thus one a minister which said he had read the old and new testament: p Vide johan, Fox in Histor. Scotic. inter. annos. 1540 et 1543. I thank God I never knew what the old and new Testament was. But what need I relate the ignorance of your Priests? q Alphons. de Castro. lib. 1. de haeres, cap, 4, Constat (to use the words of one of your own side) plures Paparumadeo esse illiterates, ut Grammaticam penitus ignorent: it is well known, that many of your Popes have been so utterly void of learning, as that they knew not the principles of their Grammar. To conclude, you are greatly beholden to me, in that I do resemble you to the Turks; for in some things you are worse than they. The Recusant. Are we Catholics worse than the Turks in some things? The Minister. Yes, for there is (that I may use his majesties words) no other Sect of Heretics, not excepting Turk, jew, nor Pagan, not not even those of Calicute, who r See his majesties speech in the late Session of Parliament. adore the Devil, that maintain by the grounds of their Religion, that it is lawful, or rather Meritorious (as the Romish Catholics call it) to murder Princes or people for quarrel of Religion, And although particular men of all professions of Religion, have been some thieves, some murderers, some traitors; yet even when they came to their end and just punishment, they confessed their fault to be in their nature, and not in their profession (these Romish Catholics only excepted) Now sir, what say you to this speech of the King's Majesty? The Recusant. Sir, I dare not say what I think. The Minister. s Eceles. 10, 20 Curse not the King, not not in thy thought: for the fowls of the Heaven shall carry thy voice, and that which hath wings shall declare thy matter. The fifth Dialogue. Wherein is showed the lawfulness of the punishment that was lately inflicted on some of the traitors, the heinousness of whose crime is laid down in the precedent Dialogue. The Minister. SIr, I come to tell you news. The Recusant. What news I pray you? The Minister. The Traitors that you told me of, were lately arraigned, condemned, and executed. The Recusant. Executed? I hope not. The Minister. What! did you hope, that such notorious malefactors should escape unpunished. The Recusant. Yes, I was in good hope, that the Senate of Parliament, to whom the King referred the judgement of the crime would have pardoned them. The Minister. Sir; it would have been a wonder to all the world, if that they had pardoned such a viperous intended parricide. It is reported that a Norman Gentleman, confessing to a Franciscan Friar, that he had once a thought to kill Francis the first of France, was for that very thought (albeit he had changed his mind, repent, and asked pardon) condemned to die by his high court of Parliament at Paris, to whom the King referred it. Now then, if that Parliament of Paris condemned him to die for thinking treason only: how could you think, but that his Majesty, and the state, would condemn these your Romish Catholics to die, who not only thought treason, but contrived it, prepared for it, and were ready to execute it? If they condemned him to die, albeit he had changed his mind, and repent; should not his Majesty, & the state condemn these to die, who were so far from changing their mind, and repenting, as that a Guido Fawkes. they repent only with Mutius Scoevola, there failing in the execution thereof? The Recusant. Well, what punishment was inflicted on them? The Minister. Truly, they were punished just as I wished they might be at our last conference. For first they were drawn on hurdles from the prison to the place of execution, to show how they had been drawn by brutish and Cassian affection. Secondly, they were hanged up, to show, that they were men unworthy to tread upon the earth. Thirdly, they were no sooner turned off the Ladder, but the Rope was cut, and they let fall down, to show the sequel and effect of treason, viz▪ how that they dig a pit for others, & fall into it themselves. Fourthly, they were no sooner fallen down, but the executioner snatched them up, laid them on a block, cut of their secrets, and cast them into the fire, to show that traitors are unworthy to be begotten, or to beget others. Fifty, their bellies were ripped up, and there hearts torn out, & thrown into the same fire, because they were the fountain of such an unnatural and unheard of treachery. Sixtly, as they though to have cut off the head from the members in the civil body; so were their heads cut off from the members of their bodies. and their wickedness turned on their own heads, seventhly, their heads being cut off, their bodies were divided into quarters, as they were divided from the found members in the civil body. Lastly, their quarters were set up upon the gates of the City; that as their graceless attempts were an ill example to others: so their quarters there exposed to the eyes of all men, might be a good caveat to others. The Recusant. I pray you sir, what warrant have you for these bloody ceremonies, which you used at their execution? The Minister. Sir, our warrant is the word of God: for we b Ester, 7. 9 read that treacherous Haman was banged on a tree of fifty cubits high. The Recusant. Yea, but where read you, that it was lawful to tear out their hearts, they being alive. The Minister. We read in the second of Samuel, that when that unnatural trey tour Absalon, was hanged in an Oak by the hair of his head, c 2. Sam▪ 18 14 joab took three darts in his hand and thrust them through Absalon, or (as it is in the original text) in the heart of Absalon, while he was yet alive in the mids of the Oak. From which words I gather, that as traitors hearts contrive treason, and have a time of pride and presumption: so should they also have a time of woeful paining, for their contriving of treason, and for their proud and presumptuous sins. The Recusant. What though joab pierced Absalon's heart, while he was alive? are you sure that this fact of joab was lawful. The Minister. Yes, it was (no doubt) the just judgement of God on his heart, for breeding and bringing forth such an horrible treason; The Recusant. Yea, but which of the ancient fathers saith so? The Minister, Ignatius a very ancient father hath these express words: d Ignatius epist. 2. add▪ Tr●●ian? Absalon parricida existens divino judicio arbori appensus, sed et cor eius quod male cogitaverat, sagitta transfixumest: Absalon a Pharricide by God's judgement was hanged on a tree, and his heart that had thought evil, was thrust thorough with an arrow. But what do I speak of thrusting the hearts of traitors through with arrows, or of tearing them out of their bodies? David a man after Gods own heart, grated the very flesh, and rend asunder the bones of such like enemies to GOD and their Country, with e 2 Sam▪ 12, 31 iron harrows, saws, and axes of iron. And thus you see, how that there is no punishment inflicted upon traitors in this Land which is not agreeable to the word of God, and less than they deserve. The Recusant. Yes, you punish not the traitors only themselves, but their wives, their children, yea their whole posteririe: for you take from them their Lands, their houses, their offices, and what not? The Minister. This is also agreeable to the word of God. f 2▪ Sam, 16. 4 Ziba having falsely accused Mephibosheth to David, until the truth was found out, had Mephibosheths' lands, and all that pertained unto Mephibosheth, given unto him by King David. And g Ester, 8, 1, 2. King Ahashuerosh gave the house of treacherous Hamon unto Queen Ester, and Queen Ester gave it to Mordecai, as a reward of his loyalty. As for offices it is h 1▪ Kings. 2. 26 27, 35. recorded of Abiathar, that albeit Solomon spared his life because he had borne the Ark of the Lord God before David his father, and because he had suffered in all, wherein his father had been afflicted: yet cast he him out from being priest unto the Lord, and placed Zadocke in his room. Yea the Persians rook not their houses, their offices, their Lands, and their livings only from traitors wives and children, but their lives two, For i Ester, 16, 18 Haman was hanged at Susis before the gates, with all his family, as the Apocryphal story hath it. But what need I allege the Apocryphal? the Canonical saith, that k Ester, 9, 14 they hanged haman's ten sons upon a tree at Shusan. Now to apply this, if the Persians so detested treason, as that they punished both the traitor with death, and every one of his family two: I see no reason why you should complain of rigour, and accuse his Majesty of more than Scythian cruelty. Nay, you should rather commend his clemency, in sparing their children's lives, and punishing them only in lands and livings, and sometimes not in that neither. The Recusant. Well to leave this, how many I pray you were executed? were there any of the Lords executed? The Minister. No, but I do not doubt but that they shall be in the same l Inpraedicamen▪ to Passionis. predicament shortly, if that they be found guilty. The Recusant. What? do you think that they shall be beheaded? The Minister. Be beheaded? they may thank God and the king, if they escape so. The Recusant. Thank the king? Sir, he may not inflict any other punishment upon such great men. The Minister, Yes, if it please his majesty, he may as lawfully 'cause them to be hanged, drawn, and quartered, as he caused their inferiors. But you tell me, that they are great men. What though? Haman was a great man, an honourable man, yea the very next person unto the king, as appeareth by these words of Artaxerxes: m Ester▪ 16, 11 he was called our father, and was honoured of every man as the next person to the king. And yet was he n Ester, 7. 9 hanged on a tree of fifty cubits high. haman's seven sons were great men, yet were they hanged before the gates of Shusan, and that (which me thinks was a pitiful case) for their father's fault. Bigthan and Teresh were great men; yet because they sought to lay their hands on king Ahashuerosh, o Ester, 2, ●● they were both hanged on a tree together. King Sauls seven sons were great men, yet king David p 2▪ Sam, 21. 9 delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, which hanged them in the mountain before the Lord. q Ro▪ Gagwin. in anno. Reg. Franc. lib, 5 1 Ibid. Hebert Earl of Vermendoys was a great man, yet because he invited Charles surname● the simple king of France, to lodge at his castle of Peron and slew him there: Lewes the fift with the Lords of, his Privy Counsel assembled in the city of Laon, caused him to be carried, (as Robert Gagwine recordeth) to an hill without the city of Laon, and there to be trussed at the gallows and strangled with a rope. But before the Hangman had fully strangled him, the king turned to him, (saith ʳ Gagwine) and said: thou Hebert art the same Countryman that madest away my Lord, and father, and thy Sovereign in prison and bonds, now according to thy desert suffer thy deserved death. Lord Harkeley, Earl of Carlisle, was a great man; yet for treason against his Sovereign Edward the Second, s Fabian in an. 12 24. et Polidor Hist, Angl, i▪ i● he was hanged drawn and quartered, and his head sent to London, and set on the bridge. Chronica fructus Temporum telleth us, how that he was first disgraded, his spurs hewed from his heels, his sword broken over him, and then disgarnished of the robes of his estate, and after tortured for his treason, as is afore said. Bertopus was a great man; yet for his treason, Lewes surnamed the gross King of France, * Ro. Gag▪ in anno, Reg. Franc, lib, 6 appointed, that he should be hanged at the gallows, and by him a mastiff dog alive, whom when the hangman smote, he snatched at the traitors body hanging by him, rend his flesh, and so was he baited to death. Queen Brunchild wife sometime to Sigisbert King of Mees or Austrachia, was a great woman; yet because she had been the death of ten princes of the Royal blood, King Clotare taking her in the field, v Robert. Gag. in anno, Reg Franc. lib. 2 after she had been well beaten with a cudgel four times, commanded her to be set on an horse, and to be carried about all the host, and then by the hair of the head and arms to be tied to the tail of a wild horse; and so to be trailed and drawn to death. And no less strange judgement and execution was that which Frotho a King of Denmark inflicted on two of his Chamber convicted of treason against him: he caused them to be tied to two great main stones, and to be thrown into the sea, and so (to use the words of a Saxon Grammaricus in lib. 2 histor, Danic. Saxon the writer of the story of the Danes) animi crimen annexa corporibus mole mulctando, with weight put to their bodies, he punished the weighty sin of their souls. But not to insist any longer in this enumeration of particular examples, God commanded Moses, b Num, 25, 4 to take the heads of the people; that is, the chiefest of the malefactors, and to hung them up before the Lord against the sun, that the indignation of the Lords wrath might be turned from Israel. And why must Moses take the chief of them? truly, because they had not corrupted themselves only, but also others, and done more evil by their evil example, then by their sin. For the force of example is very great to draw to similitude, and the greater the example is, the greater force it hath to induce likeness of manners. The crime therefore of those great men that had an hand in the late horrible treason, was a great crime, an exemplar crime; and consequently a c Bis peccar qui exemplo peccat. double crime, and deserves more than a single punishment. I speak not this (God is my witness) as holding it a main point of piety, to be in this case quite without pity. But to stop your mouths, that scandalise the King's Majesty and the state of cruelty in their just severity: and to show that it behoveth all men, to be more compassionate to the life of the Commonwealth, then to the life of a man. Melius est ut pereat unus, quam unitas. FINIS. Pagano-Papismus: OR, A Discovery of Popish Paganism: wherein is plainly showed that the Papists do resemble the idolatrous Heathen in above sixscore particulars: and that in many things they are worse than they, and are wholly departed from the very principles of Philosophy, reason, and outward sense: made Dialoguewise in a most plain and familiar manner. The Minister. IF any sheep (saith saint Chrysostome) go out of the right way, and leaving the a Chrysost de Sacerdot▪ lib▪ 2. plentiful pastures, graze on barren and steep places, the shepherd must somewhat exalt his voice, to reduce the dispersed and straggling sheep, and to compel them to the flock. The consideration of this my duty, moved me to come unto you, that leave the plentiful pastures, and graze on the steep places of Popery: and to do mine endeavoure, to bring you into the right way again, from the which you have a long time strayed. The Recusant. Sir, I am in the right way already: for I keep b jeremiah 6. 16. the old way, which is the good way, and walk therein. The Minister. Sir, you keep not that old way, wherein the patriarchs and Prophets walked; but that wherein the pagan and Ethnics walked. The Recusant. Do we Catholic walk in the way of the old Ethnics? The Minister. Yes, I found that the ancient Heathen were indeed the The true Anti quity of the Romish religion. first inventors of your Religion; and that the forenamed heretics borrowed it from them, & you from them both. The Recusant. Is our Catholic religion borrowed from the ancient Heathen? The Minister. Yes, as may appear by these semblances, which I have observed betwixt them and you. The 1. Semblance. The Heathen had a multitude of Gods, as is apparent in the second of jeremiah, verse. 28. so have you likewise, as appeareth, in your common Calendar, where for every day in the year, you have either an He Saint, or a She saint. The second semblance. The heathen had several Gods for several Countries, for the Chaldeans and Assyrians, a judg. 8. 33. Baal was found out; for the Zidonians, b 1. Reg. 11. 5 Ashtaroth; for the Ammonits c Ibid verse. 7. Molech or Milcom, For the moabites, d Ibid. Chemosh: for the Syrians, e 2. Reg. 5. 18. Rimmon: for the Philistines; f judie. 16. 23. Dagon, & for every nation that came out of Ashur to inhabit Samaria, there was a several God appointed, for the men of Babel g 2. Reg. 17. 30. Succoth-benoth. for the men of Cuth h Ibid. Nergall▪ for the men of Hamath i Ibid. ash ima for the Anims, k Ibid. vers. 31. Nibeaz & Tartak, & for the Sepharvims, l Ibid. Adramelech & Anammelech the gods of Sepharvaim. The like may be said of the inventors of your Romish superstition, For they have assigned several Countries to the patronage and protection of several Saints. S George is for England, Saint Patrick is for Ireland, S Martin is vide orat. ad sanctum jacobum maiorem, in ● come. Suffrag. ● fol. 138. for Germany, S Peter and saint Paul for Italy. S Michael is for France, and Saint James is ☉ Lux, decus, et singulare prae sidium Hispaniae, the light, the ornament and the Lord protector of spain. The third semblance, The heathen had protectors for their cities▪ Venus she was for Troy, and Pallas she was for Greece▪ and Jupiter Stator for Rome. And in like sort have popish Country's * vide Heshus. de erroribus Pontif. Loc, 28 protectors for their cities. Saint Peter is for Rome, Saint Roch for Venice, saint Ambrose for Milan, saint Genovefa for Paris, saint Stephen for Vienna, saint Vlderick for Augusta: and for Colleyne, are the three kings: and saint Ursula with her eleven thousand waiting maids: yea we may say, as jeremy said of the idolatrous Jsraelites, According jerem. 2, 28, to the number of thy cities are thy gods. The fourth semblance, The n Singulae fraternitates, siagulae familiae, certos habent patronos & tutelares. Prudentius lib. 2 contra Symmachum. , Heathen had their household saints and tutelar powers: so have you, The fift semblance, The heathen found out Gods for their arts and sciences so do you, for you have Saint Gregory for scholars, saint Luke for painters, saint Crispin for shoemakers, etc.: The sixth semblance, The o August▪ de Civitate Dei lib. 4. cap. 21, Heathen had Gods for several diseases: so have you for saint Anthony is for ulcers and gangrene, and saint Fracrius, for quartan fevers. Saint Petronel for Agues, Saint Otilia and saint Raphael for soar eyes, saint Libarius for the stone, saint john for poison, saint Quirine for the fistula, and saint Dominicke, and saint Francis for the french pocks, and other diseases. The seventh Semblance. The q Vide August. de Civitate dei, lib. 3. cap. 17. & liu, lib, 10. & Orph. hynm. in Aesculap, & Plaut Curcul. act. 2. Orat. ad beatum Rochum, in come. suffrag. fol. 138. Heathen when they were visited with the plague and pestilence, prayed to Aesculapius, so do you to saint Roch, saying,: confessor Deivenerande, obtineat in caelis deprecatio tua, ut qui deinceps in afflictione devotè ad te clamaverint, ab omni epidemiae ac pestis periculo tuis meritis protinus liberentur; etc. Or thus s Missal: & Breviar. Sarish in missa S, Rochi. , Tu qui deo es tam charus, et in luce valde clarus, sana tnos famulos. Et, a pest, nos defend, opem nobis ac impende, contra morbi stimulos. And before the t Circa annum Dom. 1300 Rochus natus est: Albert. Crantz. Metrop, lib. 9 cap. 25. birth of Roch, your forefathers prayed to Sebastian. when they where visited with the plague, as appeareth in your missals. The 8 semblance. The heathen erected x Fanum Aesculap. temples, in honour of Aesculapius: so did your forefathers erect temples, Chapels, altars & images, in honour of saint Roche, as is apparent by Baronius: y Baronius notat. in martyrolog. Rom. Aug. 16. Decreverunt Patres concilii Constantiensis ut ad u Missal. adusum Romae & Lusitaniae propulsandam ingruentem urbi Constantiensi luem, non imago tantum eius à clero comitanti omni populo, per vrbem solemni pompa deferretur, sed impenderentur ei etiam caeteri honores sanctis debiti, quo facto, quia pestis illa mox evanuit, inde exemplum sumptum est ut ubique locorum eius venerandae imagines, altaria, sacella, ac denique templa erecta fuerint. the. 9, semblance. The z vide Loca supra citat: de Aesculap, a De sancta Apollonia Anti phona. in Com. Suffrag. Heathen also prayed to Aesculapius when they had the tooth ach: so do you to Apollonia saying. Virgo christie gregia, Pro nobis, Apollonia, fund preces ad dominum, tollat omne noxium. Ne pro reatu criminum, morbo vexemur dentium. etc. the 10, semblance, The heathen joined Apollo and Aesculapius together b Propter aegros medicus vel Apollo, vel Aesculapius, vel ambo simul quando esset grand periculum. August de civit Dei lib. 4. ca 21 & implored their joint help, when they thought that the one of them alone was not able to help them, so do ye join fourteen saints together, and pray unto them all jointly, when your danger is such, as that you think one alone not to be able to deliver you from it, their names are these, c vide Missal, de 14. auxiliatoribus. George, Blaze, Erasmus, Panthaleon, Vitus, Christopher. Dennis, Cyriacus, Achacius, Eustachius, Gyles, Margaret Barbara and Catherine, the, 11. semblance, The d vide August. de civit. dei cap. 18. heathen had a god to deliver them from danger by fire, so have you, saint Laurence for the same purpose. the, 12, semblance,, the e August. de civit. Dei lib. 4. cap, 11. heathen had their god Summanus, and their god jupiter, to preserve them from thunder and lightning: so have you f In come. Suffrag. fol. 26. god and saint Sotheris. the, 13 semblance, The g Romani veteres nescio quem summanum, cui noctur na fulmina tribuebant, coluerunt magu quam iovem, ad quem diurna fulmina pertinebant. Augu. de civit dei. l. 4, 11. heathen gave more worship to Summanus, then to jupiter, so do you give as much honour to Sotheris or rather more than you do to god himself: as is apparent in your old popish h In come. suffr. fol. 86. litany, The 14, Semblance. The Heathen worshipped Hymeneus as a God, and i Seru: in Aeneid 1. called upon his name, quia inter bella saevissima virgines liberavit, because in time of cruel wars, he delivered certain virgins from the peril of the sword: and for the like cause have you deified saint George, and do call upon his name blasphemously, saying: Georgi martyr inclite, te decet laus & gloria praedotatum militia, per quem puella regia existens in tristitia, coram dracone pessimo saluata est: Ex animo te rogamus cord intimo: ut cum cunctis fidebilus k De sancto Georgio Antiphona in Suffragijs fol. 71. coeliiung amur civibus: nostris ablutis sordibus: & simul cum laetitia tecum simus in gloria? The 15. Semblance. The l August de civit. dei. lib. 4. cap. 11. Heathen commended their warriors to Mars and Bellona: and you would have us Englishmen, to commend our warriors to saint George, as appeareth by this speech of Stephen Gardiner, m Stephen Gardiner in his book against George joy, fol. 58. We Englishmen to whom god hath given many victories under the banner of S. George may not we say: god and saint George: as they said under Gedeon, Domino & Gedeon? the 16. semblance. The Heathen commended their seafaring men n Horat. lib. 1. earm. odd. 3. to the mighty goddess of Cypress, and the two brethren of Helen and the father of the winds, that is, to Venus and the two twins, Castor and Pollux. and Aeolus: and you o Vide heshus. de erroribus pontiff. loc. 28. commend your Seafaring men to saint Nicholas & saint Christopher. the 17. semblance. The Heathen commended their wayfaring men, p Deo Statilino Stantes, d●ae Adeonae adeuntes. Abeonae abeuntes. August de civit. dei. lib. 4. ca 21 when they went from home to Abeona, when they came towards home, to Adeona, and when they stood still, to Statilinus: and q In orat. ad beaten. mariam & Sanctum johan. evang. in come suffrag. fol. 69. you commend your wayfaring men to the Virgin Mary, and saint john the Evangelist. the 18. semblance. The r propter fessos diua Fessonia Augustide civit dei lib. 4 c. 21, ˢ In come. suffrag. fol. 86. vide Donatum in Pho●m. Terrentij v. In come. Suf frag. fol, 60. Heathen commended those that were weary with travailing to Fessonia: so do you commend them to Wilgefortis. the 19 semblance. The ᵗ heathen, when they laid them down to sleep, commended themselves to Cuba, so do you commend yourselves to the Virgin Mary, saying: custodi domina me dormient 'em, etc. the 20. semblance. The x Tres deosifli posuerunt, forculum foribus, cardeam cardini Limentinum limini. Ita non poterat forculus simul sores et cardinem limenque servare august. lib, 4 c, 8 Heathen had one god for their doors, another for the henges of their doors, and a third for threshholdes of their doors: so have ʸ you Protasius and Geruasius to keep your doors, and to guard you from thieves, Heshus. the 21 semblance, The z juga montium jugatino: collibus deam collinam: vallibus, valloniam prefecerunt aug. de civit. Dei lib, 4, cap. 8 Heathen had one god for the mountains, and another for the valleys: so have a In come suffrag fol, 86 you, Barbara for the hills, and Agatha for the valleys. the 22. semblance. The Heathen had one goddess for their b Pomonia apples, and another for their honey: so have you Polyoron for your Bees, and Polycarpe for your apple trees. c Mellona August de civit. dei, lib 4, cap 24, et 34. In come. Calend, the 23. semblance. The e Augst de ciu. dei li 4, cap, 11, Heathen had their goddess Diana for their woods and forests: so have f In come suffr. fol, 85: you saint Silvester. the 24 semblance. The g August de civit Dei. lib, 4 cap, 11 Heathen had Minerva for learning: so have h vide Hesh, de errorih: pontif., loc, 28. you saint Katherine. the 25. semblance, The heathen had Bacchus for wine: so have you i Heshus. ibid. S. Urban, the 26. semblance. The k August de civit: dei lib, 4, cap 11, Heathen had Castor for health, so have you l Heshus, loc. 28. saint Valentine. the 27 semblance. The heathen had their m Deam Pecuniam, Deum argentium et filium eius Aesculanom: miror autem quod Argentinus non genuit Aurinum quia et aurea subsecuta est: Aug, de Civit. Dei, lib, 4, cap, 21. Heshus. loc, 28, gods for wealth: so have ⁿ you saint Erasmus and saint Anna, the 28 semblance, The heathen prayed to Honorius, o August de civit dei. lib 4 c, 21, ut honorentur, that they might be honoured; so did Guido Faukes, and the rest of the traitors (I warrant you) pray to their idols that they might be placed in the rooms of our honourable Nobles: But their gods (praised be our god) hath deceived them; they had therefore best imitate p Licinius apud Euseb: de vita Constant. lib, 2 cap 15, Licinius, who when his old gods in whom he put his trust had deceived him, he sought out new ones to worship. the 29, semblance, The q August de. civit. dei, lib, 4 cap, 11, heathen, when they stood in need of connsayle, prayed to Consus: so do yond to the virgin Mary, saying: r orat: ad beatam Maria in con Suffrag fol. 128 da mihi domina consilium & auxilium. the 30, semblance. The heathen, that their children might prove acute and sharp witted, commended them to s qui cautos. i. acutos faceret, August, de Ciu. dei lib. 4, c. 21, Cautius: so do you commend yours to saint Nicholas for the same purpose: t Stephen Gardner in his book against Georg joy, fol, 59, the young boy (says Stephen Gardiner) that in the entry to learn his letters, was taught to say, Christ's cross me speed and saint Nicholas, was for so much taught no error at all, but saint Nicholas well named, as one by Christ's cross advanced here, to learning and virtue, and now by power of the same cross, placed in felicity, where he may pray for other, to be helped as he was. The 31. semblance, The heathen commended their children u Deo vagita no vagitantes, dea Cuninae su. gentes. August. de civit, Dei lib, 4, cap 2●. when they did cry to Vegetanus, when they did lie in their cradles, to Cunina; and when they did suck, to Rumina: so do you in like sort commend your children to saint Erasmus, saying x orat, ad sanct Erasm, in come Suffrag, fol 137, Tibi sancte Erasme commendo filios meos, filias meas et omnes mihi confessione et oratione vel consanguinitate coniunctos, et omnes coetus meos, the. 32, semblance, The y junolucina far opem in paeriundo. Terent: in Andria et August de ci vit. dei lib. 4, cap, 11. heathen commended their women when they laboured of child to Juno Lucina: so do you commend them (as z Heshus de●er rorib, pontif., loc, 28. Heshushius reporteth) to saint Margaret. the 33, semblance, The a August, de civit. dei, lib, 6 cap, 9 ex varrone qui mulieri faetae post partam tres deos custodes commemorat adhiberi, ne Siluanus deus per noctem ingrediatur et vexet. heathen committed the care and keeping of women in childbed, to Intercido, Pilumnus & Deverra: so do b In come. Suffr. fol. 85, & 86. you commend your wives when they be in childbed, to saint mary, saint Anna, saint Susanna, saint Perpetuasaint Felicitas, Paraxedis, saint Winefride, saint Frideswide, saint Gertrude, and sundry others. the 34 semblance. The heathen taught their young men that wanted the c Barba est viri hierogliphica, Pier in hire. Hierogli phick of men, to pray to Fortuna Barbata, as this speech of saint Austen gives sufficient testimony: d August, de civit, dei, lib. cap. 1, ● Multi fortunae barbatae supplices, ad nullam, vel deformem barbam pervenire potuerunt, et si qui eam pro barba impetranda venerantur, à barbat is eius contemptoribus irridentur. And I make no question but that you have likewise your gods; propter excrementorum incrementum, For you have gods for far base matters, as shall be showed hereafter, the, 35, semblance, The heathen had their e Aug. de ciu. dei, lib, 6, cap. 9 Deam virginensem, so have you your Deas virginenses, as apparent by this prayer of yours to your eleven thousand supposed virgins, f Orat ad undena mil, virg. in come. suffrag. fol. 671. O vos undena millia, puellae gloriosae, Virginitatis, lilia, marty riique rosae, in vita me defendite prebendo mihi iunamen: in morte vos ostendite, supernum ferendo solamen etc. The, 36, semblance. The heathen had their Nuptiales Deos, and when they joined g August. de civit, Dei lib, 4, cap, 21. any together in matrimony, they enjoined them to pray to h Plutarch, in Problem. quinque, deos precari illos qui matrimonio coniunguntur scribit, iovem adultum, junonem adultam Veneren Le poran et inprimis Dianam, ideo quinque cereos nuptys accendi in rem esse, nec pauciores nec plures. jupiter, Juno: Venus, Lepus and Diana, and that you have your nuptial Gods, it is not unknown to any that have been at your marriages. The, 37, resemblance, The heathen when they solemnized matrimony lighted candles, though the sun shone never so bright: so do you: of which heathenish custom I will (god willing) speak more hereafter, The 38 semblance, The ⁱ Heathen commended their minds to their Goddess Mens, and their wills to their god Volumnus and their Goddess Volumna: so do you commend your minds, your wills, yea your souls and bodies, and all the implements of them both, to the virgin Mary, saying: Sancta Maria, regina coeli et terrae, matter domini nostri jesu k Deae mentis ut bonam haberent mentem. deo volumno, et deae volumnae. ut bona vel lent. Aug, de Civit. Dei, lib. 4 cap, 21 l: orat, specialis ad beatis. virg, Mariam, pro vitae incolumitate. In consuffrag. fol, 60. in Augnstsde civit, dei, lib. 6 cap, 19, Christi: in manus tuas commendo hody, et quotidiè, et omni tempore animam meam, corpus meum, sensum meum, visum meum, labia mea, manus meas, pedes meos, oculos meos, et omnia membra mea. etc., the 39, Semblance, The ᵐ Heathen, when they were at the point of death commended their spirits to their gentle gods; so do you commend your spirits into the hands of the Virgin Mary,: Asdruball may be proved by a certain form of prayer which is to be found in all old English books: wherein you are taught to pray thus at the hour of death: O blessed Mary holy Mother of Christ, grant that I may end my life in the true faith of holy kirk, and I commend my soul to thee. etc. This may also be proved by another prayer of yours wherein I find these express words. Rogo te per illud gaudium Orat. advirg: mariam, in come Suflrog fol, 167 quod habuisti in illa hora, qua concepisti dominum nostrum jesum Christum: ut laetifices, cor meum in hora defunctionis meae: subvenias mihi tam in corpore, quam in anima: nec dimit me perdi propter nimia peccata mea: sed subuenias mihi in omnibus necessitatibus meis, etc. the 40, semblance, The, o August de Ciu Dei. lib, 6, cap. 9 Heathen besought victus and vestitus,, to give to give them food and raiment: so do you beseech saint Erasmus, saying p Orat. add sanct Erasm in. com-Suffrag. fol, 137 Deus per tuam orationem dignetur mihi tribuere victum et vestitum, etc., the, 41, semblance, The q Aug de civit Dei, lib, 4, cap. vlt, Et Donatus in Phorm. Terentii. Heathen commended themselves (when they did eat) to Educa; and when they did drink, to Potina: so whether you eat or drink, or what soever you do, you do you commend yourselves to one saint or other, there by robbing god of his honour, and giving it to his creatures: the, 42, semblance, The Heathen commended the keeping of their sheep to their god Pan, so do you to Wendeline. That 43: semblance. The ʳ heathen had Bubona, for their oxen: so have you August de civit Dei, lib, 4, cap, 24. Pelagius for yours, The 44, semblance, The heathen had a s Stercarius. God for dunging their land, and (the basest thing that could be imagined) a t Cloacina. goddess for draught-houses: so you, which is in deed as base Jdolatrye commend your geese to Gallus, and your Pigs to saint Anthony, the: 45: semblance: The u August de civit Dei, lib, 4 cap 21. heathen prayed to their god Spinensis. that their lands might not be overgrown with thorns and thistles: so do x In come. Suffrag fol 85, you to Saint Gereon: cum socẏs suis. The 46, semblance, The heathen had gods for their y Cur portis domibus, thermis, stabulis soleatis assignare suos genios, etc., Pradent. lib, 2 contra simmacbum, stables, and for their horses: so have you Eulogius, and Ludovicus for the same purpose. The 47. Semblance: thieves also amongst the heathen were not left Laverna without their Patrons: no more are they amongst the Papists. For Turseline, a popish Jesuit, in his fourth book Turselin lib. 4. cap. 19 & 20. of the Lady of Lauretto, saith, that the Lady of Lauretto sometimes breaketh the halter when men be in hanging: and when they are in hanging, she preserves their lives till they be taken down-Were I worthy to give advise, there should be strong halters provided for Guy Faukes, & the rest of the traitors, lest the Lady of Lauretto should chance to break them, And because the said Lady doth (If we believe Turseline) often preserve thieves lives, till they be taken down, I could wish, that their flesh should be grated, and theite bones rent a sunder with saws, iron harrows, and axes of iron (as the people of Rabbah were 2. Sam. 12, 31. dealt with:) for their traitorous and unnatural stratagems The, 48, Semblance. Yea so endless was superstition with the Heathen, as that they had a god (as saint Austen doth observe) for every thing: Yea, many oftentimes for one thing. As for their corn Seia, Segetia, Entelina, Prosperpina, Nodotus, Volutitina, Patelena, Hostiliva, Flora Lacturnus, Matura & Rancina z August de Civitate Dei lib, 4. cap. 8. . Now potuerunt (saith he speaking of the gentiles) unam Segetiam invenire, cui semel segetes commendarent: sed satis frumentis quandin sub terra essent, praepositam volverunt dean Seiam: cum iam essent super terram, et segetem facerent deam segetiam: frumentis vero collectis atque reconditis, ut tuto seruarentur, deam Tutelivam praeposuerunt, cui non sufficere videretur illa Segetia, quandiu seges ab initiis herbidis usque ad aristas aridas perveniret, praefecerunt Proserpivam frumentis germinantibus: geniculis nodisque culmorum, deum Nodatum: involument folliculorum, dean Volutinam: cum folliculi patescuut, ut spica exeat, deam Patelenam: cum segetes novis aristis aequantur, (quia veteres aequare hostire dixerunt,) Deam Hostilinam, florentibus frumentis deam Floram: lactescentibus deum Lacturnū maturescentibus, deam Maturam, cum runcantur. (id est, terra auferuntur) deam Runcinam. this superstition of the heathen may be fifthly paralleled by the practice of you superstitious Papists at this day, in finding out a God for every thing: Yea▪ many oftentimes for one thiug, As for your corn jodocus, and other, one for it under the ground, another when it is sprung up; this when it is in the blade, that, when it is in the Ear, and one other for it: when it is in the barn, Nec omnia commemòro; quin me piget quae vos non pudet, ● August ibid. The 49▪ Semblance, The, forenamed gods of the Heathen had divers names according to the place where they were worshipped: as for example, Baal, was sometimes called Baalzebub, and sometimes Baal-Peor, because he was worshipped in the hill Peor, The like may be said of your Romish Gods▪ For you sometimes call the virgin Mary, the Lady of Lauretto, sometimes the Lady of Mounteferratte, and sometimes the Lady of Walsingham. The 50, semblance. The false gods of the heathen, were of two sorts, b Alii selecti, alii viliores. Aug. de civitate Dei, lib, 7. c, ●. ex Varrone, some were superior gods, others inferior: their superior false gods were these: c Ibid. Janus, jupiter, Saturn, Genius, Mercury Apollo, Mars, Vulcan, Neptune, Sol, Orcus, Liber, Tellus, Ceres, juno, Luna, Diana, Minerva, Venus and Vesta; their inferior false gods, were these: d Aug. de civit. dei lib. 4. cap. 8. Volupia, e Ibid. Libentina, f Ibid. cap. 11. Diospiter, g Ibid. Mena. ⁿ Opis, Levana, Paventa, Venilia. Agenoria, Stimula, Strenua, Numeria, Camaena, h Ibid. cap. 21, Rubigo, i Ibid, cap. 32, Pavor, Pallor, Febris, Terminus, k Idem. l. 6. c. 9 Subigus, Drema, Partunda, Priapus, Naenia, and the rest before mentioned, with many others. Now take a view of your popish l E●kius in Enchir▪ de venerat sanct, & Bellar min: de Sanct. lib. 2. cap. 15. writers▪ and you shall found, that herein they just jump with the Heathen: for they make the virgin Mary (by their giving to her an ᵐ higher kind of service, than they give to the rest) a superior god; and the rest of the saints, they make inferior Gods; giving unto them a lower ⁿ kind of service, as hereafter ( o james 4. 15. If the Lord will) shall be showed more at large. I proceed now to other particulars. The Recusant. Sir. I have hitherto heard you patiently: therefore I hope you will now give me leave to speak a little, and to interrupt your speech. The Minister. With all my heart. The Recusant. You have made mention of a number of our saints, and with all you have termed them our gods: but you do greatly wrong us herein. For, we acknowledge there is but one only true god: and that the rest whom we pray unto, were gods creatures, and men that excelled in gifts. So that there is great difference betwixt us and the Heathen? The Minister. The 51. semblance. I see no difference at all. For the learned among them knew, that there was one chief and true maker and governor of heaven and earth, and all things therein: and that the rest whom they prayed unto, were men that were famous for their excellent gifts. I will acquaint you with their very words, god (saith p Citatur a Cicerone, Plutarcho, Clement Alexand. & Cyrillo. Pythagoras) is but one; not as some thing, without government of the world, but all in all. He is the orderer of all ages, the light of all powers, the original of all things, the cresset of Heaven, the Father, mind, Quickener, & mover of all, and the infinite power from whence all other powers flow. And Architas, one of the same sect, saith: that he q Architat. esteemed no man wise, but him that reduceth all things to one self same original: to weet, unto god, who is the beginning, middle, and end of all things. join hereto the testimony of Trismegistus: r Trism●gist. in Pae●and. we call them gods, not in respect of their nature, but for honours sake. Socrates also (whom Apollo by his oracle deemed to be the wisest of all Greece) confessed one only god, and (as both Aulus Gellius, and Ap●leius do report) was condemned to drink poison, for teaching, that the gods which were worshipped in his time, were but vanity: and for that, in scorn of them, he was wont to swear by an Oak, by a goat, and by a dog: thereby giving the people to understand, that he thought there was as much godhead in the one, as in the other▪ And Plato, Socrates his scholar, layeth down this rule, that his s Plato epifl. ad Dyonis, followers might thereby discern his meaning: When I writ in good earnest, you shall know it hereby, that I began my letters with one god only: and when I writ otherwise, I begin them with many gods; the same rule is also observed by jamblichus, and the rest of the Platonists. But let us leave the Academics, and come to the Peripatetics; t Arist. de mundo this world (saith the pince of philosophers) and the order of all things is preserved by god. And that which is highest in the world, is the seat of god; and there is nothing in the world, that is sufficient of itself to preserve itself, and that can be without his help; to the same truth subscribes his scholar Theophrasts, saying; there is onedivine u Theophrast. de Odoribus. beginner of all things whereby they have their beginning and continuance. So doth Alexander Aphrodisaeus also, But to come x Alexand. Aph●odis. de Provident. to the stoics, y Zeno. there must needs (saith the chief of them) be but one god, for else there should be no god at all: because it behoveth him to be singularly good, and also Almighty, which were utterly impossible, if there were any more but one. Add hereunto the testimony of Epictetus the stoic, z Epictetus' in A●phag. the first thing that is to be learned, is that there is but one god, and that he provideth for all things, and that from him neither deed nor thought can be hidden. And of the same mind is Seneca, who saith; that a Seneca de vita beaten, & in lib. de consolat. from things discovered, we must proceed to things undiscovered, and seek out him, that is ancienter than the world; of whom the stars proceed; yea all the ancient poets were like minded. b Sophocles apud Cyrill. contra julian. Certes (sayeth Sophocles) there is no more gods but one. And Aratus acknowledged, (as that place alleged by saint Paul gives sufficient testimony) that we are the generation of god. But not to c Act. 17. 28. stand in quoting of any more, even Orpheus, who opened the gap to the plurality of gods, in his hymn unto Musaeus which is called his last will and testament; recanting his former folly, saith thus: d Orpheus in hymno ad Musaeum Lift up thine eyes to the only maker of the world; he is but one bred of himself, and of that one are all things. He is all in all; he seethe all, and is seen of none. He sitteth in heaven, governing all things; with his feet he toucheth the earth; & with his right hand the uttermost shores of the sea, &c. If you list to be further satisfied, read the ancient Fathers, who have faithfully related the opinions of the Heathen: to begin with Lactantius, he speaking of the Heathen in his time, saith thus; e Lactantius lib, 2, cap. 1, when they swear, when they wish, when they give thanks, they name neither jupiter, nor gods in the plural number, but the only one god; so greatly doth nature constraive them to acknowledge the truth. And Tertullian testifieth the same f Tertul, Apol. cap, 17, As wholly as their souls, (saith he, speaking of the Heathen) are brought in bondage to false Gods: Yet when they awake as a drunken man out of his sleep they name but one god, and the speech of every man is, as it pleaseth god. They call upon him as their judge, saying, god seethe it. I refer myself to god, god requited it me, And in uttering these words they look up to Heaven, and not to the capitol of Rome, for they know that Heaven is the seat of living god. Saint Austen also bringeth in the heathen, speaking thus, g August de Civit. Dei lib, 4, cap, 24 et lib, 8 cap 26. Why sir, think you that our forefathers were so foolish and blind, as to believe that Bacchus. Ceres, Pan and such others were gods? It is not possible. Nay, they believed but in the only one god: whose gifts & functions they honoured under divers names, and whatsoever is more, is but superstition. And thus you see, that the Heathen did acknowledge there to be but one true god, as well as you. The recusant. But I see not, that they did worship the true god, as well as we. The Minister. The 52. semblance. Yes, the very heathen worshipped the true god aswell as you. For h Lactantius, lib, 2 cap 1, Lactantius reporteth, that when they did swear, when they did wish any thing▪ when they gave thanks, they named not jupiter, or the other gods, But god: specially in the i Tertul. Apol. cap. 17 fear of wars, and other dangers, and Tertullian saith, that the Heathen being brought in bondage to false gods, used nevertheless to name god, and to say that god will give this or that. ᵏ Athanasius also showeth, that the gentiles worshipped Athanas. orat. contra Gentes. one god unbegotten, and many gods made or created. The Recusant. If the Heathen worshipped the true god, as well as we; why were they then condemned of idolatry? The Minister. the, 53, semblance, They were condemned of idolatry, because they gave divine or religious honour to their supposed gods, in their exercises of religion: for (to use Lactantius his speech) it cannot be, that the true god be worshipped, and other gods too: because if his honour be given to others, he is not worshipped l Lactantius lib, 1, cap. 19 at all; considering his religion is to believe, that he is that only true god. Now because you do the very same, when you canonize saints, and give unto them divine honour: I must needs herein also resemble you to the idolatrus Heathen, and say unto you as Lactantius said unto them; it cannot be that the true god be worshipped, and other gods too. The Recusant. Sir, although we worship others besides god: yet do m Eckius in Enchirid. de venerat. sanctorum Bellarm de sanctis lib. 2 cap. 15. we not give unto them the same degree of worship, which we give unto them. For, we give 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to god; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the Virgin Mary; and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the rest of the saints. The Minister. The 54. semblance, Sir, this your distinction is borrowed from the Heathen for they gave the highest degree of honour to the true god; the next to Pallas, and the lowest degree of honour, they gave to the rest of their false gods. For proof hereof, I refer you to these words of the Heathen Poet. n Horat. lib. 1. Carm, odd. 12. It is he (saith he, speaking of the highest god) that governeth the affairs of men, and gods, which ruleth the sea and land, and the whole world with divers seasons: so that nothing is brought forth greater than he, neither is there any thing like him, or second to him. Proximos illi tamen occupavit Pallas honores; Yet Pallas receiveth the next honour to him. Thus you see, how that heathenish idolatry, and your idolatrous worshipping of saints, are for substance both one. The Recusant, Sir, you are deceived: for we worship saints for God's cause, or god in them, that is, we a door them in respect they were the ministers of Almighty God: But the Heathen worship not their inferior Gods in this respect. The Minister. the 55. semblance. Yes, the very Heathen did the like, as witnesseth Paulus Orosius, who speaking of them saith thus: they confessed that they followed not many gods, but that they worshipped oh Sub uno deo magno plures ministros vener rari. Oros. lib. c. 1. under one great god, many inferior gods, as being his ministers. The Recusant. Yea: but the Heathen worshipped jupiter, Saturn, Mercuric, Mars, Venus, and others that were known (as saint p August▪ de civit▪ Dei lib. 3. cap, 3. & 17. Austen reporteth) to have been adulterers, and notorious male▪ actors, The Minister. the 56 semblance. So do you worship Patrick: Cuthbert, Brigit, Modwen, Fiacrius, Foilanus, Gertruide, Erkenwald, Becket and others that were known to be whoremongers, and lewd persons. The recusant, Sir you do greatly slander these holy Saints. the Minister: No sir, I will verify what I have said. To begin with Patrick the great Apostle of Ireland, it is reported by credible q Ranulphus Cestren sis in Polychron. lib. 4▪ cap. 29. & johannes Capgravius in catalogo sanctorum Angliae writers, that he had a boy waiting on him, that called him father, he not denying it: and that one Modwenna, an Irish woman, was very familiar with him And so cruel was Cuthbert unto women after he became a Saint of yours, that none might come within his sanctuary at Doylwem, carven, and Mailros in Scotland, nor yet at Durham, Tynmouth, and Lyndefarne here in England, under r john Balein his acts of English Votaries dedicated to king Edward the sixth. pain of death, their chambers and sellars exempted always: yet was the said Cuthbert very familiar in his time with Ebba, Elsteda, and Verca, three holy Nuns, and built for his pleasure, a solemue nunnery at Carliel. Finally for the special good love he had unto Verca above all other, he commanded in his Testament, that his body after his departing, should be wrapped in a fine linen cloth that she had given him. As for saint Bridget, s johannes Capgravius in Catalogo S●nct. Angliae. when she was at the point of Marriage, she stole away privily with her three maidens, and waited on Bishop Machil▪ And saint Modwen after such an other sort t Idem. waited on Bishop Hiber & his brethren. Saint Fiacrius also a scottish Hermit, u john Bale in his acts of English votaries. had (as Master Bale saith) so great Malice unto women, that he plagued with the foul evil, so many of them, as came withiu the precincts of his monastery. And saint Foilanus was (as john x Capgrau▪ in Catalogue, Sanct. 〈◊〉 gliae. Capgrave reporteth) very familiar, with your saint Gertruide and her Nuns at Nigella. And your saint Erkenwalde did (as the same y Ibid. writer reporteth) build a Nunnery at Barking, and because there was at that time in England no nuns to his mind, he sent over the sea for an old acquaintance of his called Hildelitha, and made her Abbess there. And such like saints were your Saint Godrycke, Aldelme, Etheldreed, Wilfride, Drithelme, O sigh Petrocke, and sundry others: of whose acts you may read at large in z 〈◊〉 ●●dam de G●stis Ang●nū, Galf●id M●n●methen. de Origine & G●st: B●●tonū, Alphred. Beuerla●ens▪ in Chronolog. & Ranul●h▪ Cestrens. in Polychronic●. books extant to your view. I come now to Thomas Becket, who ( a See Fox. Act & mon. pa, 225 because he died in the pope's quarrel, which like a traitor, he maintained against his sovereign Henry the 2) was canonised for saint by Pope Alexander, anno dom: 1180, and appointed to be prayed unto by the name of saint Thomas of Canterbury▪ And accordingly do you pray at this▪ day blasphemously saying: Tuper Thomae sanguinem, quem prote impendit: fac nos christ scandere quo Thomas ascendit. By the blood of Thomas, which he for thee did spend. Make us Christ to come, whither Thomas did ascend: By this it appeareth, that Ethnick-like you make those your intercessors which were known to be whoremongers. Traitors and notorious malefactors: and that you honour those as Martyrs, which died as traitors▪ like the followers of Alexander, of whom b Euseb▪ lib. 5. ecclesiast. hist. cap. 17. Eusebius maketh mention, showing that they did honour their Master as a martyr, though he lived as a thief, and died justly for his offences. But be it granted that all those whom the Pope hath canonised, were Saints indeed: I see no reason why you should therefore make them your intercessoures & mediators: the Recusant, Yes there is great reason, For as he that hath a suit to the King, hath need to make way for the same by the fanour, and mediation of some great Lord, who is employed near about his person: even so he that hath a suit to the King of Heaven, hath need to request the Angels and saints to admit them into presence and to bring them to speech with god. the Minister. the 57 semblance. Sir, this your reason is borrowed from the heathenish idolaters, and therefore I will answer you as saint Ambrose c Ambrose in epist. ad Rom. cap. 1. answered them. when they are ashamed (saith he, speaking of the pagan) of having neglected God, they are accustomed d Solent mis●r● uti excusatione dicentes per istos posse 〈◊〉 deum, 〈◊〉 per Comites pervenitur ad Regem to use a certain pitiful excuse, saying that they had access unto God by these gods, as by the lords or carls about the court, subjects have access unto the King. But I beseech you is there any man so foolish and so retcehlesse of his own preservation, as that he will give that honour unto any such Earl, which is due unto the King? seeing that to do that is a point of treason, And these men, shall not they think themselves guilty of having transgressed▪ who give to the creature the honour due to god alone: & which forsake him, to adore & pray unto their companions, with service, as though besides that there were nothing reserved for god: For verily in that men make way to have access to kings by tribunes or Earls, it is because the king is a man & knoweth not to whom to trust in matters concerning the Commonwealth. But to make god favourably inclined unto him, from whom nothing is hid, who knoweth what every man wanteth▪ & wishes a man needeth not any to speak for him, but only a devout mind, For in what place soever he would speak with him, he is ready there to give him an answer. Among the works also of saint Origene, is found the self same oblection of the Pagans. viz: that none e Origen. contra Cells. lib. 8. dare to approach the person of an earthly prince for any suit, but by the intercession, of some courtier or other about him: therefore it should be so on our part toward god; unto whose mighty majesty, we must use the mediation of some which are in his favour, The absurdness of this comparison, is there in like manner answered: that the reason is most unlike, because princes are men, and know not of themselves, to whom to commit the commonwealth He meaneth that the multitude of their businesses requireth larger audience, than the ears of any mortal man can afford and that Princes having their power, and presence, and understanding limited, must be helped by the information of such as are their Eyes, ears & hands, as Xenophon wrote in his institution of Cyrus, that is, their subordinate Counsellors, ministers, and assistants, by whom they discharge the burden of their places. But god needeth not to be helped by the information of any: for (as the Poet saith) Panta hora dios ophthalmos; kai pant' epakoves God's eye seethe all things, and gods ear heareth all things. And as there is no defect in his hearing, so is there no danger in his person: for he rideth upon the Cherubims, and maketh his enemies his footstool. But there is great danger in the persons of Princes: for though they lie in beds of ivory, decked and trimmed with the laces and carpets of Egypt, yet over their heads hangeth a naked sword, the point downward, by a small horsehaire, threatening their continual slaughter: So that it is very necessary that they should have warders, and porters, and masters of requests, to admit suitors into their presence, and to receive and commence their requests. But the Lord is porter himself at the gates of heaven: and whosoever asketh receiveth, and ● Math. 7. 8. he that seeketh, findeth: and to him that knocketh, it shallbe opened. And that without any intervention of time: for g 145 18. the Lord is near unto all that call upon him; yea, to all that call upon him in truth. the, 58 semblance, The Heathen worshipped a Vide Origen▪ contra celsum. lib. 4, & 5. Angels b 2. Reg. 23. 5. and all the host of heaven: so do you, saying Tu sancte Michael cum omnibus millibus Angelorum ora pro me, ut eripias me de potestate adversariorum meorum: adiu●a me: etc., the recusant, c Orat. ad omnes Angelos & sancto●●n come. Suffrag. fol. 62. We worship Angels indeed, but it is only because they are the ministers and messengers of Almighty God, but the heathen worshipped them not in this respect: there is therefore great difference betwixt us and the heathen. the Minister, the, 59▪ semblance, No sir, you do herein also resemble the Heathen: for saint Austen recording their speech saith, That the Heathen d Aug. in Ps. 96 worshipped not wicked spirits, but Angels, the virtues of the great god, and the ministers of the great God. And to adjoin one answer more, e Orig. contra cells. lib, 5. we are not bid to adore the Angels, or worship them with divine honour, although they bring the gifts of God unto us. For all vows, all requests, prayers, and thanksgiving, are to be directed to god, who is the Lord of all things, by the chief priest who is greater than all angels, that is, the living word and god. The 60. semblance, The Heathen thought f vide Euclid. Socraticum & C●nsorinum. that every one had from his nativity an Angel for his custody and patronage, against the wicked Angel: so do you, as appeareth by this your prayer to your proper Angel. g Orat ad praprium Angel, in come. suffrag. fol. 69. angel qui meus es custos, piet ate superna Me tibi commissum serva, defend, guberna etc. the 61. semblance. The Heathen worshipped h Amos 5, 26. the star of their gods, which they made to themselves; so do you worship the i Orat, contra p●stem, in come: suffrag▪ fol▪ 60, star of your Gods, saying: Gloriosa stella maris a pest succurre nohis. And again, k Ibid. ipsa stella nunc dignetur syd●ra compescere: quorum bella plebem caedunt dirae mortis ulcere, etc. the 62. semblance. The Heathen consecrated for Gods, the sons of men, and that whilst they were living: of which foolish Idolatry, Theocritus one of their own Sophists, spoke thus in derision: bono estote animo, quando dij moriuntur ante h●● l Theocri●: in Clem: Alex: Protrept. mines: Sirs, be of good courage, since gods die before men. In like sort may we deride you, who consecrated for a god, the Bishop of Rome, and say unto him: m In arca triumph: ad sixth 4 Oraclo vocis mundi moderaris habenas, Et merito in terris crederis esse deus, that is, thou governest the world by the Oracle of the voice, and worthily art thou believed to be a god upon earth, yea n Christophorus Marcellus in council: Lateran sess. 4: tu es alter deus in terris, thou art another god upon earth, the Recusant Albeit it pleaseth some to call him their God upon earth yet doth his holiness neither take that Title to himself nor bid any call him so, the Minister, the 63 semblance, Yes: Christopher Marcellus (as I have showed) said to the Pope in the counsel of Laterane, thou art another God upon earth: and the Pope took it to himself: yea, we read, that Pope Nicholas produced the testimony of the godly emperor Constantine, to prove himself to be a god and consequently not to be judged by any secular power. His words were these: satis evidenter ostenditur a saeculari oh Nichola●s Papa epist: ad Michael & dist: 96: cap: satis: potestate nec ligari prorsus, nec solui posse pontificem, quem constat a pio principe Constantino Deum appellatum: nec posse Deum ab hominibus indicari manifestum est. And his argument was this, God cannot be judged by any man, but the pope is god: Therefore the pope cannot be judged by any man. Thus you see, that the Pope both taketh unto himself the title of god, and also calleth himself so; he may therefore (me thinks) fifthly be resembled to the Emperor Domitian, who (as Eusebius reporteth) charged all men to call him Dominum Deum Domitianum, Lord God, Domitian, and to Sapor, the King of Persia, who would needs be called Rex Regum, frater solis et lunae, particeps syderum, King of kings, brother to the Sun and Moon▪ and partner with the stars. To conclude this particular, as Hanno, taught his birds to cry, Deus est Hanno, Hanno is a God: so doth the pope teach his p In Extrau: de maiori & obedient: Canonists to cry. Papa est dominus Deus noster: the pope is our lord God. The 64. Semblance. The q Rex Anius, rex hominum, Phaebique, sacerdos: Virgil: Aeneid: 3 Heathen poet maketh mention of one Anius, who would needs be both a King, and a Priest, in like sort do the Pope's favourites solemnly dispute, that the r Cupers de Eccles: pag: 251 num. 62. Empire or temporal rule, as well as the Priesthood or ecclesiastical dominion is translated unto the successors of Peter: and that the Pope is both the s Paulus 4. ad ducem florent: in duel, et Read: Cupers, pag. 42▪ num: 39 King of kings, and t C●pers pag. 25 num. 62. prince of Priests: yea u Anucij epist: dedicat. ad Gregor● ●3. Pontifex Optimus maximus, as the heathen called their god jupiter. the 65. semblance. The Heathen Emperors thought, that their will and commandment was warrant unto them enough, for whatsoever they enacted: ancording to that of the Satire. Sic, volo, sic jubeo, sit pro rationale voluntas. So I will, so I command, my will must stand for reason. And this kind of masterless & lawless will have your Popes challenged to their chair at Rome. For howsoever the pope behaveth himself no man may inquire into his actions, neither may any man say unto him: Domine cur ità facis? Sir why do you thus? For the proof hereof, I refer you to those words of your popish Lawyers: Papa dicitur x Extrau▪ de translat▪ Episc. Quant. in glossa & Felin: de Rescriptis ad Audientiam. habere coeleste arbitrium: unde in ijs quae vult, est ei pro ratione voluntas. Nec est, qui dicat illi, Domine cur ita facis? quia sicut ex sola voluntate potest per Papam lex creari, itâ per solam voluntatem potest cum ea dispensari, that is, the Pope is said to have an heavenly judgement, therèfore in such things as he willeth, his will standeth in steed of reason: neither may any man say unto him; sir why do you thus? because as a law may be made by the only will of the Pope; so may the same law be dispensed withal, only by the will of the Pope. Yea your canonists are not ashamed to say, that ʸ if the Pope do carry with him innumerable people by troops y Can. si Papa. dist, 40. into hell, no man in this world might presume to reprove his default; because he is to judge all, and to be judged of none; unless he be found to err from the faith, which (say you) as he is Pope, he cannot do. The, 66, Semblance. The scholars of Pythagoras an Heathen philosopher, usually alleged the yea and nay of their Master, in their disputations, for all the reasons and answers whatsoever: so do the pope's scholars allege the yea and nay of the pope their Master, and depend as much thereupon as the Pythagoreans did on Pythagoras his opinion. z Silvester Prierias contra Luth▪ a Heruaeus de potestate Papae Whosoever (sayeth Prierias) resteth net on the doctrine of the Romish Church, and Bishop of Rome, as the infallible rule of god▪ from which the holy scripture draweth strength and authority, he is an heretic. The pope (saith another) hath authority so to expound the scriptures, that it is not lawful to hold or think the contrary: yea, b johannes de Turrecremata sum. lib. 3. c. 64. si totus mundus (sayeth a Romish Cardinal) sentiret (or as Nemo the c In c. 9 q. 3. gloss readeth sententiaret) contra Papam, videtur quod sententiae Papae standum esset: if the whole world should determine against the pope, we must nevertheless stand to his sentence. The 67. Semblance, The Heathen Tyrant d Casigula Pom peio Paeno absoluto, gratias agenti porrexit ad osculandum sinistrum pedem auro & margaritis ornatum▪ Seneca de Benefic. lib. 2 & Zonaras in vita eius. Caligula would hold forth his foot to be kissed of those, over whom he did tyrannize: so the pope causeth Kings & Emperors, e Lib. Caerem, 1 sect. 5. cap. 3, & lib. 3, sect. 1. cap, 3. when they come into his presence, after obeisance done in three several distances, to fall down before him and kiss his foot, even as Mantuan saith of him, Ense potens gemivo cuius vestigia adorant Caesar, et aurato vestiti murice reges. Nay, he will f Vide Naucler generat. 40. set his filthy feet on the necks of Emperors, and say unto them: it is written thou shalt walk upon the Asp and Cockatrice, and shalt tread upon the Lion and the dragon, It is great pitiy that Emperors had not the stings of Asps and Cockatrices to thrust forth against him: and to conclude, if it be his holiness pleasure to be carried aloft on men's shoulders, he will 'cause the g Lib. caerem. 1. sect. 2, & 5 de processione Pontificis & Caesaris per urbem Emperor, Kings, and princes that are present to put under their shoulders, and help to carry him. And thus, whereas Kings in former ages, did ride upon asses, now asses ride upon Kings. the 68 semblance. When the Pope is to travail abroad, he h Vide joannem Monlucium lib. de religione ad Reginam matrem. sendeth the Eucharist on horseback some three or four days before, accompanied with muletors and horse-keepers, and with the scum and baggage of the Roman court. Afterward followeth the Pope attended with Cardinals, Bishops, & Potentates: And when he cometh near the place whether he travaileth, the Eucharist (that is Christ their maker) is brought to meet him on the way, that it might be carried before him into the town, as his attendant. The Pope's herein do imitate the kings of Persia, who when they were to travail abroad, usually sent an horse before them, carrying a little Altar upon him: whereupon, i Vide Alciat. Emblem non tibi, sed religioni page, 17. among a few ashes, shone a small flame of holy fire which the Persians worshipped as the papists do the Eucharist. And as the kings of Persia were more reverenced than that holy fire: so are the pope's more reverenced than the Eucharist, and carried with far greater magnificence than then the Eucharist is. And this is a forcible argument to prove that the pope is that man of sin which advanceth 2 Thes, 2, 4 himself above the sebasmata that is, the things which are worshipped as God in the Romish church, the, 69, semblance, The heathen planted fir trees, and after cut them down, l Isaiah 44, 15, 16. with some part thereof they warmed themselves, with an other part they roasted meat, and of the third part they made themselves gods & worshipped them: so do you sow your Corn, and afterward reap it, carry it into your barns, thrash it, grind it and bake it; of one part thereof you make food for yourselves: and of Another part you make Christ your breaden God, and m Concil. Tried: sess, 13 decree that it shall be worshipped with the highest degree of worship. What gross idolatry is this? so to worship that, which in show is bread: in taste bread, and in feeling bread, and what is it is else but bread? the. 70 semblance. You do also worship Crosses, which is likewise gross idolatry and popish paganism, as appeareth by this speech of saint Ambrose, invenit Helena crucem domini, regem adoravit, non lignum utiquae, n Ambros de ibitu Theodosii quia hic gentilis est error: Helena found the cross of our Lord, she adored her King. (He meaneth Christ) and not the wood, Because this is an error of the Heathen. And into this error are you fallen; for you call upon the cross and say, o Breuiar, infra Hebdom 4 quadrag. all Hail O cross, our only hope in this time of the passion, increase righteousness to the godly, and give pardon to guilty persons, which words are directed not to Christ, but to the very wood of the Cross: as appeareth by these words in the hymn immediately going before: blessed is that cross on whose arms the prince of the world did hang: it was made a beam to weigh his body, and took the prey from hell. the 71. semblance. The idolatrous Israelits, learned of the idolatrus heathen, a jerem, 2. 27 to say to a piece of wood, thou art my father, and to, a stone, thou hast begotten me: so have you learned of them both, b O pie crucifix redemptor omnium populorum etc. Orat. ad Crucifix, in come Suffrag, fol 67. to say to a crucifix of wood, thou art my redeemer, and to a piece of metal, c Concionatores alloquntur imaginem Crucifixi eique dicunt, tu nos redemisti, tu nos patri reconciliasti. Bell arm de Imagine. lib, 2, cap, 23. thou art my reconciliator. The, 72, Semblance. It is also Jdolatry to swear by Angels, Saints, or any other creatures: as may be proved by these words of the Prophet jeremyah: q jerem 5, 7, thy children have forsaken me, and serve by them that are no gods. Where he showeth that to swear by any thing then by god, is to forsake him and to commit idolatry, And this kind of Idolatry did the Heathen commit, when they swore by Hercules, and said, r vide Tertul de idololatria cap, 20 me Hercule medius, fidius: so do you commit the same when you swear by the mass, by saint Mary etc. and say, as god me help, & our lady: not considering, how that the Lord hath threatened s Zephan 1, 5, To cut them off that swear by the Lord, and by Melchom. To conclude this semblance with the words of an Ancient writer: Ecce in le ge precipit ur, ut per nullum iuretur, t Author operis imperfecti in math, homil 12 reperitur in tomo 2 operum divi Hierony mi. nisi per Deum: qui ergo turat per coelum aut per terram, aut quicquid aliud est per quod jurat, deificat illud. Propterea idololatram se facit omnis qui per aliquid aliud a deo jurat, etiamsi jurare liceret: quia non reddit Domino Deo suo iuram euta, sua, sed elementis: et sic duplicit er peccat: primum quia jurat, deinde quia deificat per quem jurat. Behold it is commanded in the law, that à man should swear by none but by God: whosoever therefore sweareth by heaven, or by the earth or what soever else it be, by which he sweareth, he maketh it a God. Therefore every one that sweareth by any thing besides god, albeit it were lawful for him to swear; yet maketh he himself an idolater, because he performeth not his oaths to his Lord god, but to creatures, and so he sinneth two ways: first because he sweareth, and secondly because he maketh him a god by whom he sweareth. That 73: semblance. The Heathen u Rom 1, 23 turned the glory of the incorruptible god to the similitude of the image of a corruptible man, and of birds, etc. so do you, when you paint God the father in the form of an old man, and the holy ghost in the form of a dove. The 74, semblance, The Heathen (as ancient x Ambros: in Psal, 118. Cyprian de Idol. vanit. Gregorius Neocaesar. in Concil. Nicen. 2 Act: 6. & Euse. Histor Eccles. lib 7. cap 17. writers report) were the first inventors of images: your imagery then is but an heathenish devise; and yet are you so in love therewith, as that you set up images in Churches, in windows, and upon the walls of your houses, yea, you fasten them to your beds, and carry them privily in your bosoms, as y Gen, 31. 34 Rachel hid her father's idols in the Camel's straw. the: 75: semblance: The images of the Heathen were but the inventions of their own brains, very unlike their originals. Praxiteles made Venus to the likeness of Cratina, whom he loved. All the painters of Thebes painted her after the image of Phrine, a beautiful, but a notorious harlot. All the carvers in Athens cut Mercury, to the imitation of their Alcibiades, The like may be said of your supposed imaginary gods, for they are but Pygmalion's pictures, works of your devising, as unlike the originals, as Cratina and Phrine were to Venus, and as Alcibiades, was to Mercury. And your supposed relics of Saints, are also but forged things and devices of your own. For example's sake. saint Peter brain at Geneva was found to be a pumice stone, and saint Anthony's arm was found to be an heart's pisle. And the blood of Hales in England. was descried to be but the blood of a drake. You are also deceived in making of your Crucifixes: For the cross was made with three pieces of wood, whereof one was fastened upright in the ground to the which the body & back leaned: the second was fastened to the top of the first overthwart, to the which the hands were nailed, and the third was fastened to the bottom of the first, to the which the feet were nailed a sunder with two distinct nails. But your popish carvers and painters do make the cross of two pieces of wood; and do nail the feet to the very body of the cross, and that one upon another, with one nail, The 76, Semblance. The prophet David speaking of the images of the Heathen, saith thus; they have mouths and speak not: they have eyes and see not: they have ears and hear not: they have no a Psal, 115, 5, 6, 7, says, and smell not: they have hands and touch not: they have feet and walk not: neither doth any voice pass through their throat. So have your images, eyes, ears, noses, hands, and feet; but they neither see with their eyes: nor hear with their ears, nor smell with their noses, nor handle with their hands, nor walk with their feet, neither doth any voice (albeit they gape wide) pass through their throats. the. 77 semblance. Albeit the images of the Heathen were without sense and motion, Yet the Heathenish priests (thereby to deceive simple people) used certain engines to make them move: so do your popish priests, as your Legend of saint james de Voragine gives sufficient testimony: for we read there, that a certain image of Christ did lift up his foot, and cast off his slipper to a poor pilgrim, that stood devoutly before him, and would have offered somewhat, but b In Fox. Act. & mon. page 1188, that he had nothing to offer. We read also that there was a certain idol in King Henry's days, called the Rood of grace, which was made so with wires and engines, that one standing within it, could make every part of the idol to move. And if a man brought but a small piece of silver to offer, it would hung down the lip, as being not pleased: but if it were a good big piece, than would his jaws go merrily, This abominable idol was broken down by the Lord Cromwell's means, and the engines and parts thereof, were showed at Paul's cross, thereby to bring men to a detestation of your imagery, and to acquaint them with your double dealing. To add one example more, there was at Chester, in Queen Mary's days, an image of Saint Nicholas, which was made with such a devise, as that if one standing behind it, did pull a certain string that was in the back part thereof, it would move the hand as if it blessed the people. This image with many others was burnt at Chesterby the appointment of Doctor Downame then Bishop there, as his own c D. Downam in his treatise of Antichrist pag, 112. son (who saw them burned) reporteth. The 78, semblance, Albeit the images of the Heathen had mouths and spoke not: yet would some Heathen d Titus Livius lib. 5, & Valerius Maximus lib. 1, cap. vlt. writers have men believe, e In monasterio Kioviensi trans Boristhenem flwium Severin, de vita, miraculis & acts canonizationis S. Hyacin thy lib. 1 cap. 13 that the image of juno spoke unto a soldier, that said unto it: vis ne Romam ire juno? so would your Popish writers have us to believe, that an image of the Virgin Marie spoke unto Hyacinthus, and said: O fili Hyacinthe, etc. the 79 semblance, The Heathen carried their f Baruch 6, 3, Gods of silver, and of gold, and of wood, on their shoulders: so did the Pope's clergy g Baronius Notat. in Martyrolog Rom. assembled in the city of Constance, carry the image of Rochus on their shoulders, in the time of the plague there. the 80, semblance, The reason that moved the Heathen to carry their Gods on their shoulders, was h Baruch, 6. 3. to 'cause the people to fear: so do you carry your Gods on your shoulders, in your processions, thereby to make simple people fear them: But we may say unto them, as Baruch said unto the Heathen: i Baruch. 6, 21, 22. The Owls, swallows, and birds fly upon their bodies, and upon their heads, yea, and the cats also. By this yea may be sure, that they be no Gods; therefore fear them not. the, 81, semblance, The Heathen put golden k Bar▪ ch▪ 6, 9 crowns on the heads of their gods: so do your Popish priests set Coronets on the heads of your idol Gods. the, 82, semblance, The Heathenish Priests l Baruch 6, 9, 10. Conveyed away the gold and silver from their gods, and bestowed it upon themselves, and upon their Harlots; so do your Popish clergy, as Bernard a man of your own side reporteth, m Bernard. in serm▪ ad Clerun in Concil. Rhemens. congreg. with the patrimony of the cross of Christ, you (saith he, speaking to the Archbishops, Bishops, Deans, Archdeacon's, Priests, and Monks of that age) Feed whores in your chambers, you fat your flesh, you furnish your horses with Pectorals and headestalles of gold. The, 83, semblance. The Heathen ᵘ covered their idols with clothing of gold, n Baruch, 6, 12. so do you cover yours, with purple and scarlet, as you were enjoined in the o Concil. Trid. sess, 7. Council of Trent. The 84. Semblance: The Heathen p Baruch. 6, 12. placed their Images in their Temples; so do you; not considering that the ancient fathers (whom you pretend to be on your side) did utterly condemn this Heathenish practice. To insist in some of them, q Epiphan▪ ad joannem Hiero solym. August. de fide & Symbolo. Epiphanius flatly avoucheth, that to place images in Churches, is contrary to scripture and religion. And saint Austen accounteth it to be a wicked thing, to make the Image of God, & in temple collocare, and to place it in the temple of god. Yea the whole council of Eliberis (as hath been showed heretofore) decreed s Council Eliber tin, can, 36. picturas in Ecclesiis esse non debere, that pictures ought not to be in Churches, the 85, semblance. The Heathen could not t Baruch, 6, 12, keep the faces of their gods clean from dust: so when your gods (To use Baruch hiswords) u Baruch, 6. 16, be set up in your Temples, their eyes be full of dust, by reason of the feet of those that come in. the, 86, semblance, The Heathenish Priests x Baruch, 6, 17, Kept their Temples with doors and with locks, and with bars, lest their Gods should be spoiled by robbers: and such are your Gods: y Baruch, 6, 57 They can neither defend themselves from thieves nor robbers, for they that are strongest, take away their gold and silver, and apparel, wherewith they be clothed: and when they have it, they get them away: yet can they not help themselves. We may therefore say of your Gods, as Saint Chrisostome said of the Gods of Laban, z Chrysost. in Gen, cap 31, bomil, 57 Tales sunt dii tui, ut quis eos furari queat? non erubescis dicens: quare furatus es deos meos? Are thy gods such that a man may steal them? art thou not ashamed to say wherefore hast thou stolen my gods. the, 87, Semblance, When their came any war or plague upon the Babylonians, a Baruch, 6. 48, their Priests consulted together, where they might hide themselves with their gods: so do your Romish Priests: otherwise, they do not, as the image of the Virgin Mary taught (as (b) you say) Hyacinthus to do, in the time of Mary: The 88 semblance. Albeit the Gods of the heathen could neither defend b Severim de vita mira. themselves from war nor from plagues. Yet were they made as though they could have defended themselves c ul: et act: anon. niz. Sanct Hyacinth, lib. 1, cap 13. Baruch, 6, 13. holding weapons in their hands: so do also your Romish Gods: one holdeth a sceptre, as though he were a certain judge of the country, yet can he not slay such as offend him. Another d Ibid, hath a dagger, or an axe in his right hand: yet is he not able to defend himself from battle, nor from thieves. The 89, Semblance. We may also say of your Gods, as Baruch said of the Babylonish Gods: e Baruch, 6, 54, when there falleth a fire upon the house of your Gods of wood, and of silver, and of gold, your Priests will escape and save themselves: but your Gods burn as the balks therein: how can it then be thought or said that they be Gods? the Recusant, Sir, there is no Catholic so simple, as to think that images be Gods; you do therefore greatly wrong us, in resembling us to the Heathen therein. The Minister. The 90: semblance. Sir, no more did the Heathen think them to be gods; and yet for all that, they were condemned of idolatry. To verify what I have said, quis ea nisi stolidus (saith Celsus in Origen) prodijs habuerit? who but a very fool will account f Orig. contrae Celsum: lib. 7. them to be gods? I worship (sayeth another Pagan in Saint g Aug. in Psal. 113. concione. 2 Ansten) neither the image nor the devil, but in a bodily figure I behold the sign of that which I aught to worship. h Lactan●ius de falsa Religione lib: 2 cap. 20. Non ipsa inquiunt, timemus, sed eos ad quorum imaginem ficta, & quorum nominibus consecrata sunt: we fear not images, say they but them after whose likeness they be figured, and to whose names they are consecrated. The 91, semblance, Albeit the Heathen did not think, that images were Gods in deed; yet did they i Baruch,▪ 6, 5, 54: call them their gods: so do your popish priests; for upon Easter day in the morning, the k Conrade, de imaginib▪ ca 17 priest taketh the image of the Crucifix out of the sepulchre, carrieth it about the temple, and knocketh at the gates being shut, saying; at tollite aportas, Lift up your heads Oye gates, and be ye lift up ye everlasting doors, and the king of glory shall come in. And to one within ask, quis est iste rexglori●? Who is this king of glory? the Priest answereth Dominus fortis et potens; etc.: the Lord strong and mighty in battle, the Lord of hosts, he is the King of Glory. And upon the feast of the Pentecost l Conrade. ibid. there is a dove let down in your idol temples, and with it falleth fire and water together with a great noise the Priest crying out and saying: accipite spiritum sanctum, receive the holy Ghost. the, 92▪ semblance, Albeit images be (as the Prophet calleth them) m Habak, 2, 18 teachers of lies, Yet did the Heathen say, that they were n Vide Athanas: orat. contra gentes. elements or letters to know God by: so say you, that images are laymen's books. the, 93, semblance, The o Vide Lactantium lib 2, cap, 21, Heathen passed not by their Images, without bending of their knees, and saluting of them: no more do you, as is apparent by this caveat, which you give to p Vide Com. Suffrag, de beata Maria fol, 167, them that pass by the image of the Virgin mary Virgins intactae cum veneris ante figuram, Praterundo ca●e, nè taceatur Aue. The 94. Semblance. The idolatrous Israelites, after the manner of the Heathen q 1 reg, 19▪ 18, et Hos, 13, 2. kissed their images: so do you use to kiss your images, and the r Vid, Missale rom: de riticele brandi missam. Pax, the 95 semblance. The Hea then Baruch, 6, 29. brought Gifts to their Gods of silver, and gold, and wood▪ so do you offer gifts to your idol gods, t Baruch. 6, 32 v, See the history of Bel and of the Dragon, verse, 15. the 69. semblance. Their Priests took away that which they offered: so do your priests take away that which you offer; yea, as the Babylonish priests did eat and drink up all that was offered to Bel, the idol of the babylonians: so do your popish priests eat and drink up that which you offer to your idols, The 97,▪ semblance, The heathenish priests x Baruch, 6, 31, roared and cried before their gods. so do your popish priests before your Gods. The 98. semblance. The priests of Baal cut themselves as their manner was, y 1, reg, 18. 28 with knives and lancers, till the blood gushed out upon them: so do your popish priests whip themselves till the blood run down their backs, and sides, the 99 Semblance. The priests of the Heathen, had their z Baruch, 9, heads and beards shaven: so have your romish priests a Tondentur ca pilli, ad co●onae speciem et similitudinem, quam perpetuo conservare oportet, et ut quisque, in altiori gradu c●llocatur, sic eius orbis form● latior circumscribi debet. catechism. Rom page, 5. 22, add coronae speciem et similitudinem. the 100, semblance. there were certain priests of the Heathen called Hierophantes, who because they were forbidden to marry made themselves chaste, (as saint b Hieron, lib. 2, c●ntra jovinian Hierome testifieth) with the use of Hemlock And of them (saith a learned c Clemens Alexander. inlib 3, father) did the first heretics learn to condemn marriage. And of whom I pray you have you learned, to condemn marriage in priests but of them? sure I am, you have not learned it of god: for he telleth you that d Heb, 13. 4 marriage is honourable among all, and the bed undefiled: and that it is ● Tim, 4, 1, a doctrine of devils, to forbidden any to marry, the 101, semblance, The f vide Livium in decad: 4, heathen had their Vestal virgins, whom they forbade to Mary: so have you your nuns to whom you likewise forbidden marriage. the 102, semblance. The Heathen priests being forbidden to marry; burned in lust, and lived unchastely, as appeareth, by these words of Arnobius: g Arnob, lib, 8 contra Gentes. where do these priests more willingly commit their whore domes, and fornications, then in their own Temples, then in the midst of their altars where do they contain their bandery, where do they be think themselves of their adulteries but there? And that your Romish Priests came not short of the heathen priests herein, I prove it by the report of men of your own side. Bernard speaking of the Priest's of his age, saith thus: h Bernard in in Sermone ad Clerum in Council Rhemenscongregat, How keep they the ornament of Chastity, which delivered into a reprobate sense, do that which, is not fit? it is a shame to name those things which the Bishops do in secret, But why should I be ashamed to speak that which they are not ashamed to do? Yea, the Apostle is not ashamed to writ, men upon men wrought filthiness, etc.: And Robert Holcote speaks thus of the priests in his time: sacerdotes moderni sunt demones incubi, per luxuriam et sacerdotes Priapi vel Beelphegor, et angeli abyssi▪ The priests of our time by their luxury and lechery i Holcot in lib Sapient. lect: 18 are like the spirits called Incubi, and the Priest's of Priapus or Beelphegor, and the Angels of the Pit of Hell. And it is no marvel, that your priests are become so abominable in their doings, For you have devised a special Praemunire, to embolden them in fornication, and to free them from all danger of any of your laws made in that behalf. Your Praemunire is this: k Caus. 2: Quest 7, Laic si laicus instigante Diabolo, accuset clerium incontinentiae, statim repellitur If a lay-man by the instigation of the Devil, accuse a priest of incontinency, he is straightway thrust back, and put to silence again. l Dist, 84 max imi in gl●ssa. Laicus non potest clericum de fornicatione accusare, a lay man may not accuse a priest of fornication. And m In decretal Petrus Ramires vennas, one of your famous Canonists, saith thus n cause: 11 Quaest, Absit in glossa. quamuis tactus et oscula sint praeludia incontinentiae in laicis, secus tamen est in clericis: nam clericus praesumitur ista facere pro charitate et bono zelo. Notwithstanding handling and kissing in lay persons, be the occasions or beginnings of incontinent behaviour; yet in priests it is far otherwise, for a priest is presumed to do these things of charity, and of good zeal. It is also noted in your gloss, n cause: 11 Quaest, Absit in glossa. Si clericus amplectitur mulierem, interpretabitur, quod causa benedicendi eam hoc faciat. If a Priest embrace a woman, a layman mu●● judge of it, that he doth it to the iutent to bless her. the 103 semblance, And not the Priests only amongst the heathen, but the common people also because they gave themselves to spiritual fornication, were in the judgement of God O Rom 1. 14. given up to their hearts lusts, unto uncleanness, and to defile their own bodies between themselves: so are the People of Rome: as appeareth by these words of one of your friars p Mantuan. fa▪ florum lib 2 de Carnisprivii consueuud: . Vrbs est iamtota lupanar, the the whole city is become a stews, Yea Cornelius, one of the Bishops that were present at your late council of Trent, openly q vide orat Cornelij epist ●itonti in council Tried: babit. complained of the filthiness, and uncleanness both of the Priests, and people, The, 104, Semblance. Socrates in r Vide Plate▪ dial, ● de repub. Plato's commonwealth saith, that conjunction of men & women, & procreation of children s Caus, 12 qnaest 1 ● lectissimus ought to be common. So do your decrees report out of Clemens his decretal Epistles, that a 'mongst christians all thnges onghte to be common, even wives and all. These are your express words: Communis vita omnibus (fratres) necessaria est: commnnis evim usus omnium quae sunt in hoc mundo, omnihus hominibus esse debuit. In omnibus autem sive dubio et coniuges: a common life (brethren) is necessary for all men: For a common use of all things that are in the world, aught to be common to all men. And in all things (no doubt) are wives contained. the: 105: semblance: The Heathen were much given to witchcraft, sorcery, and Necromancy, as both the sacred t Isai 47, 9 Dan▪ 2, 2, scriptures, and profane u Tul, de Divi▪ nat. lib. 2 Tacitus hist, lib, 1, et Annalium lib, 6, Herodot, lib, 5, et Virgil ec▪ cloga, 8, writers give sufficient testimony; and this x jerem, 10, 2. way of the Heathen (to use the Prophet's Phrase) have many both of your Popes and Cardinals learned, and professed, as I showed at large in our fourth days conference. the 106. semblance. The Heathen put great sanctity in odd numbers, & when they were to use charms for some purposes, they usually made (as the poet showeth) three streaks, and three pictures of a man, and gave this reason for it: Numer y Virgil Eglog. 8 oh Deus impair gaudet, God delighteth in an odd number. And herein do you fully agreed with the Heathen: for in your blind devotion, you stand much upon odd numbers: and have three Credoes for such a matter, five Pater nosters for this, and seven ave Maries for that. And lest you should fail in your reckoning, you have your beads for that purpose: for which cause I may also fitly resemble A pharisaical fellow, you to one Paul, who (as z Sozomen. Histor. Eccles. lib. 6. cap, 29. Sozomen reporteth) seemed to dedicated his whole time to prayer, so that every day he said three hundred prayers: and because he would not fail in his account, he put three hundred little stones into his lap and at the end of every prayer, he cast out one: by which means he knew when his tale was up, The, 107, semblance, The Heathen also put great sanctity in the bore rehearsal of words, and thought that the bore repeating over of certain words, were of force to save them from perils and dangers, as appeareth by these words of the poet, concerning the witch Medea. Verbaque ter dixit, placidos facientia som●os, ● Ovid, lib. 1, Metamorph. Quae mare turb atum, quae concita flumina sistunt, And thrice enchanting words she spoke, Which causeth quiet sleep, Which stills the surging Ocean lake, And quelles the roaring deep. To this enchanting witch, may we fitly resemble you, who are of opinion, that the bore rehearsal of certain names, together with the crossing of your foreheads, four and forty times: will assist you in all your needs and necessities, defend you from all dangers both bodily and ghost lie, and keep you from all evils passed, present, and to come. That I slander you not, it may appear by this your Magical form of prayer, which I have found thus prescribed in an old popish book: b In come. suffr▪ fol. 149. Omnipotens ✚ Dominus ✚ Christus ✚ Messiah ✚ Soter ✚ Emmanuell ✚ Sabaoth ✚ Adonai ✚ unigenitus ✚ Via ✚ Vita ✚ Manus ✚ homoousion ✚ salvator ✚ Alpha & omega ✚ fons ✚ origo ✚ spes ✚ fides ✚ charitas ✚ osa ✚ agnus ✚ ovis ✚ vitulus ✚ serpens ✚ aries ✚ Leo ✚ vermis ✚ primus ✚ novissimus ✚ rex ✚ pater ✚ filius ✚ spiritus sanctus ✚ Ego sum qui sum ✚ creator ✚ Aeternus ✚ redemptor ✚ Trinitas ✚ unitas ✚ Clemens ✚ caput ✚ Otheothecos ✚ Tetragrammaton ✚ ista nomina me protegant, & defendant, & ab omni adversitate, plaga, & infirmitate corporis & animaeplenè liberent, & assistant mihi in auxilium: etc. The 108. semblance. It was the manner of the heathen to ᶜ observe times and seasons, that is to make difference of times in respect S. Paul reproveth the Ga●ians, for observing of times, after the manner of the Heathen: Gal, 4, 10. of god or bad success: so it is the manner of your popish Prognosticators (and I would it were but their manner only) to put difference of days in their Almanacs, as though some were lucky unto us, some unlucky, according to the course of the stars. They do also (and I would they only did so) observe Planetary hours, Critical days, Climacterical years, and the Horoscope or time of a man's birth, and the constellation of the Heavens at that time: yea they dare presume (& so dare others besides they) to take the placing of the stars for certain signs of accidental events to come: of the change and variety of weather, for every day in the year: and thereupon determine before hand, This day will be fair, this foul this frosty, this rainy, this hot, this cold, this windy, this calm. But we may say unto th●m: as the prophet Isaiah said to the blind idols: d Isai 41, 23. declare the things to come, and so we● shall know that you are gods; for is it not proper to God only to foretell things to come? and are there any among the vanities of the jereme▪ 14, 22, gentiles, that can give rain? or can the heavens give showers? is it not thou O Lord our god? is it not thou that sendest rain sometimes for a blessing, and sometimes for a plague? how then dare man ascribe this to thy creatures? how dare they then set down what day will be rainy, and what windy? But they will say, that f The Prognosticators Poesy in their Almanacs. Art hath no greater adversary than the ignorant. I answer, that the learned fathers were adversaries to this their Heathenish practice. The g In assertione fidei cap. vlt. Council of Toledo, holden in the year 400. decreed, that if any man did think, that Astrologers and Mathematicians (they meant Prognosticators of weather, famine, plague, wars, treacheries, etc.▪) were to be believed, he should be held accursed. And the h Can. 16, Council of Venice, which was holden in the year of our Lord 460 decreed, That if any man did study Astrology, or take upon him to foretell thiags to come, or give credence to any such thing: if he were a minister, he should be deprived, and whatsoever he were, he should be excommunicate. This Act was also afterward confirmed in the Council of Agatha, and after that again in the k Can. 32: council i Can. 42. of Orleans. And not to omit Tertullian, he telleth us plainly, that l Tertul in Apol cap, 35 astrology was invented by evil spirits, and forbidden by the Lord: and that Christians aught not to use it, though they might have benefit by it. And to the same truth subscribeth Saint m Homil. 19 in Ephes. Chrysostome, Saint Hierome, saint o De moribus Eccles. lib, 4. cap 21, & Confess: lib. 4, cap, 3. Austen, and the rest of the Orthodox fathers. But what n Comment. in Isaiam cap▪ 27: need I allege the writings of men against them? Their particular conjectures which are gathered from the position of the Heavens, of the change of the weather for every day, of famine, Earthquakes, wars, conspiracies, treacheries, and such like, are flatly forbidden by the word of god. p jerem: 10. 2, Learn not (saith he) the way of the Heathen, and be not afraid for the signs of Heaven, though the Heathen be afraid of such. In which words God forbids his people to give credit to, or fear the constellations and conjunctions of stars and Planets, which have no power of themselves, but are governed by god: and their secret motions, influences, and operations are not known to man: and therefore there can be no certain judgement thereof in any accidental or casual things. To conclude, reason itself may teach you, that it is impossible for man to know the operation of the stars: for their lights and operations are all mixed together in all places upon the earth: therefore no observation can be made of this or that star. And thus much concerning your observing of times or seasons: Now let us take a view of your observing of years, which the q Gal. 4, 10, Apostle also condemneth. the 109. semblance. Your jubilees are either borrowed of the Heathen; who r vide Plin. lib, 7. cap. 40. had every hundred years their ludos seculares, plays so called, to which your plays and pageants may fitly be resembled: or of the Jews, who every fifty years celebrated s Ludi seculares ita instituti erant, ut non nisi cen●esimo anno fierent, postea principum ambitione minore spatio inter iecto saepius erant instaurati Calepinus in verb. secularis a Jubilee. And this jewish manner of observing of years, is condemned by the Apostle. The 110▪ semblance. The heathen had their ludos seculares, at the first, every hundred year; but afterward they had them with in that compass of time: so have you varied much your devise of the jubilye, since it was first taken up. For t Extran. commun, lib. 5. tit; 9 cap, 1 Ibid. cap. 2. & 3. Boniface the eight appointed the jubilye every hundred year; ᵘ Clement the sixr abridged it afterwards to every fiftieth year: Vrban the sixth brought it after that again to every thirty third year. Paul the fourth brought it to every twenty five year: julius the second brought it to every tenth year: and the Popes now adays, will, when they please, grant extraordinary jubilyes, and as great pardons, as are granted the very year of Jubilye. the 111, semblance. Your fantasy of Purgatory sprang first from the heathen, and was received of them in that time of darkness, long before the coming of Christ, as may be proved by sundry Heathen x Homer Odi●. Plato lib, de Anima et lib 10 de Repub: et in Timilo: Virgil Aneid, 6, O●id lib, 15, metamorph. writers. And hereat (no doubt) S Austen aimed, when he said that y August de civit dei lib, 21 cap 13 Purgatory was one of Plato's doctrines. The 112 Semblance, z Bellarm. de Purgat lib. 1 cap 1. et lib 2 cap, 6 et Rhemist, in math, 12 sect, 6 You say▪ that in this Purgatory, as in a Prison house, the souls which, were not purged in this life, are there cleansed and purged by fire, before they can be received into Heaven: the like fabulos dream we found in the Heathen Poet, who in the person of Anchyses his Ghost talking with his son Aeneas, singeth thus of souls departed, a Virgil, lib, 6, Suspensae ad ventos, etc.: Some hanged abroad, endure the piercing blast, Of sharpest winds, and thus are purged at last. the 113. semblance. The Heathen feigned, that souls in Purgatory did b Boosi ●e kika. lousin, Plato in lib de de Anima cry for help and deliverance from thence; so do you feign, that a soul in Purgatory doth cry, c Vide Heshus de errorib Pontif: loc, 34. miseremini mei, miserimini mei, saltem amici mei, the 114. semblance. The Heathen feigned that men upon earth d Ei si de hoimen opheloumenoi, etc., Plate Gorg. might help souls out of Purgatory; so do you feign the Pope by his indulgences, is able to deliver thence so many souls e Antoninus part 3 tit, 22, cap, 5, ● 6, ●t 7 as it pleaseth, him. ᵒ The Pope (saith the Archbishop of Florence) in respect of his absolute jurisdiction, by communicating his indulgences, may absolve all that are in Purgatory from that pain. Yea ᵗ some monks at this age (saith a noble Frenchman) have taught that the souls which are in Purgatory, do f Du Plessis de miss lib: 3 cap 10. leap at the sound of the Money, when it is cast into thee basin for them, the 115, semblance. The heathen g Homer, Odies: 11 offered sacrifices for the dead, and had a sacrifice, which they called h A●g, de civit Dei lib: 7 cap, 7, a Purgatory sacrifice: so have you an Eucharistical sacrifice, (which say you) is propitiatory for the dead, as well as for the living. The i Council Trident sess. 9 souls in Purgatory (saith the council of Trent) are thence delivered Fidelium Suffragiis, potissimum vero acceptabili altaris sacrificio: by the suffrages of the faithful, but chiefly by the acceptable sacrifice of the altar, And to the same heathenish and Hellish Doctrine subscribeth Gue●ne●us, saying: k Gu●rnerus de Valour missae. ●arad, 12. hoc sacrificium est expiatiwm dehitae poenae tam hic l mens. sebruar: August de, Civit Dei, lib, 7 cap 7, et Plutarch in Romul, quam in futuro exoluendae. the, 116, semblance, The heathen had a certain time especially assigned them when they were to offer their Purgatory sacrifices so have you a certain day in the year appointed, when you are to m, Diem omnium animarum, pray for all souls, and to offer sacrifices for them: the. 117 semblance. The Heathen n Vide Peregrinat▪ Prin●ip page, 84 feigned that there are nine mansions in Hell, appointed and prepared for the souls of men, The first place is for young infants: the second for idiots: the third for them that kill themselves: the Fourth for them that are tormented with love: the fift for those which were found guilty before judges: the sixth for strong men, And Champions: the seventh where the souls be purged: the eight, where the souls being purged do rest: the ninth is the pleasant field Elisius. The like fiction hath Georg Douly and the rest of your popish writers, o George Douly Priest in his plain Instruct: on of Christian Religion, pag, 13, In hell, (saith he) there be four places; one of the damned, an other of Purgatory a third of children that die without baptism, and the fourth p Aug in Hypognostic, lib, 5 which was called Abraham's bosom, and now, is commonly termed limbus patrum. But this Heathenish fiction is condemned by Saint Austen: There is but two places, the first place the Catholic faith by God's authority, believeth to be the Kingdom of heaven: the second place, the same q Aug de Verb Apost Serm, 18, Catholic faith, believeth to be helll, where all runneagates, and whosoever is without the faith of Christ shall taste everlasting punishment, As for any third place we utterly know none, neither shall we find in the holy scriptures, that there is any such. And in an other place. There be two inhabitations or dwelling places, the one in fire everlasting, and the other in the kingdom that never shall have end, the, 118. semblance. The Heathen feigned, that Hercules descended into Hell, and fetched thence Theseus and Pirithous, and brought with him in a chain, Cerberus the dog of Hell, having three heads: so do r Georg Donly in his Instruct, pag, 14 et Canisius de Fide et Symbolo sect 13, you feign, that, Christ descending into hell, fetched thence the Saints and holy patriarchs of the old teststament, and vanquished there thef great read Dragon, s Revel, 12, 3, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven Crowns upon his heads. You bear us also in hand, that Gregory the t Vide Cyprian de Valera in Gregor. 1 first brought back from hell, the soul of the Emperor Traian, and the soul of an idolater called Falconilla. But we know this to be but a pagan-popish fiction, for the scripture teacheth us; that ᵘ none can come from thence. v Luc 16, 26, the. 119. semblance. x justin Martyr in Apel, 2 The Heathen (as witnesseth justine Martyr and others) when they entered into their temples, did sprinkle themselves with water: so do you sprinkle yourselves, with holy-water y Theodoret lib 3 cap. 15, 16, Hypocrates de morbo sacro et Virgil, de venere. as you commonly call it, The, 120, semblance, The Heathen (had a peculiar, and proper form of making the holiwater, dipping there in (as a Athaenaeus lib. 9 Athenaeus telleth us) a Firebrand taken from the Altar, whereupon they offered their sacrifices: so have you like wise apeculiar form of making your holy water, b Vide Durand lib 4, cap 4 exorcizing the salt first, and then the water, and after that, them both t'other, the, 121, semblance, The Heathen thought that their holiwater did purge c Hipocrates de morbo sacro, away sins In going (saith Hypocrates) we sprinkle ourselves with this water, to the end if we have any sin we may be purified & made clean, And Proclus saith that it was d Proclus de sacrif: et magia, made, not only of fresh water, but of sea water too because salt is detersive. And to this Heathenish error subscribe your popish Doctors e August Steu●hus Eug: in Num cap, 19: Non inane institutum est, saith Steuchus, quoth a quas sole et orationibus sanctificamus, ut ad eorum aspersum delicta nostra deal antur it: it is no vain invention that we hallow water with salt and prayers, that by the sprinkling thereof, our sins maybe forgiven, The, 122, semblance. The f vide Turns. in advers, lib. 13, cap 21 Heathen used Holliwater, not only for the purging and cleansing of men, but for the purging also of cities, temples, and other things without life, so your Divines of Lovaines' have taught as g Copus. in Dia log 1 page 18, one of your Jesuits reporteth, that in India holy water is very wholesome to drive a way mice, and to make barren women to conceive. Yea, h john Nichols in his Recantation, the poor Romans (saith the Pope's scholar) bring their asses to the Church, and 'cause the pri●est, to say a few prayers over them and to sprinkle holy water upon them, The, 123, Semblance. The Heathen i Baruch, 6, 18 lighted up Candles before their idols So do you: for which cause we may fitly say unto you, as Tertullian said to the Heathen in his time: who forceth you to play the male contents, and to light torches at highnoon? accendant quotidie lucernas, quibus lux k Tertul, in Apol: nulla est: let them that have no light, light Candles daily. the, 124, Semblance, The pagan (saith Rhenanus:) in the beginning of February did Celebrated the feast of Proserpina, with burning l Tertull de idololat Tapers. so do you like wise in the beginning of February Celebrated the feast of the Purification of the virgin m Rhenan in Tertull de corona mil: Mary, with burning tapers, torches and candles, and do call that day Candlemas day, n Lactantius lib, 6, cap, 2, The, 125, semblance, The Heathen offered Candles to their Gods: so do you to yours: we may therefore say unto you as Lactan tius said unto them: Num mentis suae compos putandus est, qui authori & datori luminis, Candelarum et cerearum lumen offert pro munere? Is he well in his wits, that unto God the maker and giver of lights, will offer up the light of candles and Tapers, for a present. the, 126, semblance, Burning also of incense was so common a custom among the Heathen, as that julian the Apostata, to the end that he might cunningly bind the Christians to the same, o vide Theod, lib. 3, cap. 16, & Sozomen lib, 5, cap 17, ordained, that when any came unto him, according to the custom, to receive any gifts at his hands, they should burn incense before him. And in his steps trod Pope Leo the 3. who was the first that ordained, that incense should p Vide Polydore Virgil. Invent. rerum lib, 5, be used in masses. the. 127 semblance. The Heathen bragged much of their miracles, q Cornelius Tacitus lib, 4, Hist. Tacitus saith, that Vespasian made the blind to see, and the lame to walk: And Valerius Maximus telleth us, that a certain Virgin Vestal drew water in a fine siue. s Livius in lib. de bello Punico Livy also maketh r Val, Max. lib, 8 cap 1. mention of another Virgin called Claudia, who (as he saith) drew a ship to the haven with her girdle, which could not be drawn by any source of man or beast. And t Cicero lib. 1. de Divinat. Cicero mentioneth a certain soothsayer, who cut a whetstone with a razor. With these Heathenish miraclemongers do you fully agreed, as is apparent by that fabulous discourse of yours, which you call Legenda aurea. To insist in some particulars, In the Legend of Saint Patrick, we read, that on a time a sheep being stolen, Saint Patrick admonished all the people committed to his charge; that whosoever had stolen it, he should within seven days restore it to the owner. The seven days being expired, the sheep was not restored. Then (saith your Legend) Saint Patrick commanded by the virtue of god, that the sheep should bleat in the belly of him that had eaten it. And so it happened that in the presence of all the people, the sheep bleated in the Belly of him that had stolen it. Res miranda quidem, risu celebranda bimestri. In your Legend also of the Annunciation of the Virgin Marie: we are told of a noble Knight who betook himself to an Abbey: and because he was unlearned, there was a master assigned unto him. But the Knight was so dull, that in a long time, he could learn no more but these two words, ave Maria. Which words as he had always in his mouth, whiles he was alive; so they grew out of his mouth when he was dead. For these words (saith your Legend) he had so sore imprinted in his heart, that always he had them in his mouth, wheresoever he was. At last he died, and was buried in the Churchyar de of the brethren. It happened that after that, there grew upon his grave a right fair flower de luce, and in every flower was written in letters of gold. ave Maria. At which miracle all the brethren marveled, and they did open the sepulchre, and found that the root of this flower de luce, came out of the mouth of the said knight, and anon they understood, that our Lord would have him honoured for the great devotion he had to say these words, ave Mariae. These and a thousand such Heathenlike miracles, are to be found in your lying Legends: concerning all which, I say with Saint Ansten: u August tract, 13 in johan, contra istos mirabiliarios cautum me fecit Deus mens, dicens, in novissimis temporibus exurgent Pseudoprophetae facientes signa & portenta, ut in errorem inducant (sii fieri potest) etiam electos: against these miraclemongers my God hath made me wary, saying, there shall arise in the last days false prophets, working signs and wonders, that they may bring into error (if it were possible) the very elect. The 128. Semblance: The Heathen gave credit to vain and foolish apparitions, & visions of Phantasms▪ of spirits, and of souls comen (as they feigned) from an other world. x Plutarch in Brut, Plutarch telletth us, that when Brutus was determined to transport his army out of Asia into Europe, being in his tent about midnight, he saw a terrible monster standing fast by him, wherewith he being sore afraid, ventured boldly, and demanded of him, what he was, unto whom the monster answered and said: I am thy evil ghost, which at Philippos thou shalt see again: whether when Brutus came, being vanquished by Auguflus Caesar, he remembered the words of his foreseen vision, and to escape the hands of his enemies, slew himself. The same y Plutarch, in Tbes. writer also reporteth, that certain men which were in the battle of Marathonia against the Medians, affirmed, that they saw the soul of Theseus armed before the host of the Greeks, as their chief general, running and setting them on the barbarous Medians. And we read in Suetonius, that when julius Caesar stayed in a maze at the River Rubico in Italy, musing whether it were best to pass the water or not, there appeared a comely tall man piping on a reed, about whom Caesar's soldiers flocked, especially his trumpeters: from whom he suddenly snatched one of the trumpets, and leapt forthwith into the said river, and sounded alarm; wherewith Caesar was moved, and said, Good luck mates, let us go where the Gods do warn us. We read also in Virgil, that Palinurus and Deiphobus appeared unto Aeneas: the one being his shipman, the other his brother in law: and that their wandering ghosts never ceased, until such exequys were done unto them, as Aeneas had promised, And Cicero reporteth, that Romulus z Lib, 1, de legibus. appeared after his death, walking up and down by Atticus his house unto julius Proculus, charging him to erect him up a temple in that place where he walked, and saying that he was now a God, and that his name was Quirinus. Rhemus likewise Romulus his brother, is reported to have appeared unto Faustus and his wife, complaining of his miserable death, and desiring them to procure, that the same day wherein he was slain, might be accounted among their holy days. And Lucan telleth us, how that the souls of Sylla and Marius were ever walking and appearing unto men, until they were purged by sacrifice. Now to make application of all this: as the father of lies did make the Heathen to believe, that the spirits of dead men appeared unto them, when the devils themselves appeared like men, telling them that they were the souls of such men as they appeared like unto: so doth he deal with you likewise, as may be proved by the writings of one of your own a johannes de Pine da part. 3, lib. 19 cap, 17. Friars, who reporteth, that after the death of Benedict the seventh, there appeared a horseman on horseback (or rather on the devils back) to a certain Bishop that was the said Popes very friend, The Bishop being amazed thereat, demanded saying: What? art thou Pope Benedict that lately died? The same that thou sayest, said the Horseman: Father (said the Bishop) how dost thou? Grievonsly tormented, answered the Pope: but I may well be helped: Go then and tell my brother that now is Pope, that he must needs give to the poor the treasure that is hidden in such a place. And appearing unto the Pope himself, he said: O, would God that Odilus Cluniacensis would pray for me! You do also tell us in one of your Popish Legends, that the blessed Virgin appeared after her death, to a certain priest, and said unto him: if thou wilt 'cause a festival day yearly to be celebrated, upon the eight day of December, in remembrance of my conception; thou shalt be crowned with me in the kingdom of mine only begotten son. And to add such another fable of yours, albeit the sacred scripture teacheth us, that b Act, 3. 21. Heaven must contain christ jesus, until the time that all things be restored, which god had spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets, since the world began: yet one of your popish doctors telleth us, that Christ was seen walking upon the earth, since he ascended into heaven, & appeared to his apostle S. Peter: his words are these; c Smith in a Sermon preached in Queen Mary's days, in Whitting ton Collledge Church in London, Masters, you are in a great error, as concerning that blessed sacrament, & all your trust was in Cranmer, Ridley, & Latimer. As for Latimer he said in an open disputation in Oxford, that he had no learning in that matter, but out of Cranmers' book. Besides this, I disputed with Latimer 20. years ago then he had no learning (he belied that learned father) As for Cranmer he said, that his learning came from Ridley. As for Ridley, I disputed with him myself at Oxford the other day, and I proved my Argument thus, (a weak argument to prove so weighty matter) Illc cui Christus obviavit Romae, fuit Romae: at Christus obuiavit Petro Romae: ergo Petrus fuit Romae That is, be whom christ met at Rome, was at Rome. But Christ met Peter at Rome: therefore Peter was at Rome. By this I proved two things and singular mysteries of our faith. First, that Petr was at Rome, against them that chatter that Peter was never there. Secondly that if Peter met christ bodily (as Abdias reporteth, and which I am sure is true or else such an Ancient and holy father would never have written it) than consequently he may aswell be bodily in the blessed sacrament, as he was met bodily. To this (as this slanderer reporteth) Ridley stoood like a block and feeling himself convicted answered nothing. Then said I, cur non respondes haereticorum haeriticissime? Did not I handle it well? then denied he the Minor, which I proved thus: Christ met Peter going out of Rome, and said good morrow Peter whither goest thou? Peter answered, good morrow, good man? whither goest thou Then said Christ I go to Rome to suffer. What (saith Peter) I trow, unless I take my mark amiss, ye are jesus Christ Good Lord! how do you? I am glad I have met you here. Then said he to Peter go back, and suffer, or else I must et prote et me. And thus I confuted Ridly in the audience of a thousand that he had not a word to say: Yet you say that christ was not on earth since the Ascension bodily: believe with me that he is under form of bread and wine. This tale of Doctor Smith, is both Heathenish, and heretical and much like that, of the Haeritick Polycranius, who affirmed before the whole d Council Constant, 6, Act. 15 Council of Constantinople: that a certain beautiful young man appeared unto him and taught him to say, that there was but one will in Christ: and gave him this for a sign, that he should lay the schedule of his confession, upon a dead body, and so raise it to life The Council hearing this immediately caused a dead body to be brought, but Polycronius muttering over the same a great while, could do nothing, and so was condemned by the whole Council for a liar and an Heretic; and so may you, because you labour to confirm your doctrine by visions and apparitions, as he did. the, 29, semblance, The e Ovid, lib, Metamorphic Heathen make mention of sundry strange Metamorphoses: so do you, To produce some examples for the verifying hereof: in the life of your Saint Babara, we read that when her father had drawn his sword to slay her, she was miraculously taken up in a Stone, and carried into a mountain where two sheephardes were feeding their sheep. And when one of them bewrayed her to her father: she cursed him, and presently his sheep were turned into Locusts, and he in to a stone, the, 130, semblance, The f Arist. in Ethicis Heathen taught, that a natural man hath free will in actions merely moral: and of them have g Council Trident Sess, 6. c. 5 you learned to maintain a freedom of will not only in natural & moral actions. (For that we deny not) but in spiritual, & supernatural, But the Apostl teacheth you in plain words that h Cor, 2, 14 a natural man perceiveth not the things of the spirit of God, much less willeth them. He doth also tell you, that the flesh lusteth against the spirit, the spirit against the flesh & they are contrary one to an other Now then if the flesh beflat contrary to the spirit, it followeth by a necessary consequent i, Gal, 5, 17. that a man hath no freedom of will in spiritual actions before his conversion: for he is then wholly flesh, and wanteth the spirit of God: and the flesh is contrary to the spirit: and one contrary hath no power at all to bring forth the effect of his contrary. The 131. semblance. k Bellarm. lib 3 de Grat, cap. 14, Bellarmine your Archpapist affirmeth; that the l viz, eternal life. end is not properly the object of the will, but the means tending to the end, and, And of whom (I pray you) learned he this doctrine but of the m Arist, Ethic lib, 3, cap, 2. Heathen Philosopher? The 132, Semblance. The Heathen boasted much of their outward actions of Civil virtues; as namely, of their justice, temperance, gentleness, & liberality. And they did indeed the things of the law, as the Apostle Paul testifieth, saying, n rome 2. 14. The gentiles that have not the law, do the things of the law, by nature, that is by natural strength, & he saith of himself, that before his conversion, he o Phil, 3. 6, was unrebukable touching the righteousness of the law. Now with these Gentiles, do you boast of your virtues: and I deny not but that some of you have far more civil virtues, than our impure Puritans; and that you are more unrebukable touching the righteousness of the law, them they But I deny that you have any true virtues, for (as saint Austen saith b August de Ciutt, Dei lib, 19 cap 25, ) non possunt ibi esse verae virtutes, ubi non est vera religio: there cannot possibly be any true virtues, where there is not the true religion, Nay, your civil virtues are nothing else but splendida peccata, gorgeous sins. The 132: semblance. The Heathen were of opinion, that those that lived well c Plato apud Euseb▪ lib. 11, de Preparat, Euangel. cap vlt, lib, de anima. and virtuously did thereby merit the Elysian fields: so are you of opinion that those that do good works, do thereby merit eternal life But we hold with the Apostle Paul, that we are so far from meriting Heaven by our good works d 2 Cor, 3, 5, as that we are not sufficient of ourselves, to think any (good) thing as of ourselves, but from the spirit of god, who worketh in us both the will and the deed: so that our deeds are indeed God's works in us, and therefore being not ours but e August in Psal 120 his, we can merit nothing by them at the hands of God. And hereunto agreeth, that of Austen: He crowneth thee, because he crowueth his own gifts in thee, and not thy merits. To conclude, f August in manuali cap, 2●, all my hope is in the death of my Lord, His death is my merit, and my merit is his death; And I will daylyesay unto him, g August in psal 142 Lord thou wilt quicken me in thy righteousness, not in mine, not because I havo deserved it but because thou hast compassiou, The 134 semblance, The Heathen held, that a man may merit not only for h Plato in Gorg, et in lib de anima himself, but for those also that are cast (as they say) into burning floods: so do you hold, that i Rhemist, in, 2 Cor, 8 sect, 3 the fastings and satisfactory deeds of one man may be available to others, yea and that holy saints or other virtuous porsons may in measure & proportion of other men's necessities and deservings, allot unto them supererogation of their spiritual works, as those alms of their superfluities, to them which are in necessity. And herein (me thinks) you ascribe more to the righteousness of sanctification, than you do to the righteousness of imputation, that is: more to that righteousness which makes us righteous before men, then to that which maketh us righteous before God, For albeit you hold, that a man's satisfactory deeds may be available to others and that his righteousness may make others righteus: Yet deny you that a man can be made righteous by the righteousness of Christ imputed unto him, as if the Lord would accept the righteousness of man, which is k Isay 64, 6 all as filthy clouts, l Phil, 3, 9, and not that which is through the faith of christ, even the righteousness which is of god through faith. The 135. Semblance: It was the usual manner of the Heathen, to justify themselves and evermore to m Vide Tertul in Apol, except against the Christians, as men void of all good works: so it is your usual manner, both in private conferences, & in your public writings, to inveigh against us Protestants, and to convey in withal a secret apology of your own justice, Yea, n Bellarm'de justificat, lib, 5, cap, 8, Binsfeldius de Justif, et m ersect 4, m▪ 'em. 5, conclus, 15, et Rhemist in Annot, in Luc, 14, 1 et in Apocal, 3, 5, you do notoriously slander us, bearing the world in hand we teach that none ought to do good in respect of reward. For albeit we flatly deny, that good works are the proper causof reward; yet do we (I speak only of us protestāns) constantly affirm that we aught to encourage, animate, excite & stir up ourselves to the performance▪ of all good duties, by setting before our eyes the reward which is promised, to wit the Crown of glory, which we are to receive after this life, Yea, be it known unto you, that we are so far from teaching that a man ought not to do good in respect of reward, as that we exhort servants with saint Paul, that o Coloss. 3: 23, what soever they do, they would do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men, knowing that of the lord they shall receive the reward of inheritance And we still show it to be the duty of all the saints of God, p ● Cor 9: 24. so to run that they may obtain. And to move them the rather to the performance of this Christian duty, we beseech them to set before their eyes, the practice of the saints of God: as namely, of q Heb. 11. 26. Moses, who esteemed the rebuke of christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt, because he had respect unto the recompense of reward: and of Abraham, who r Heb: 11. 9 10 abode in the land of promise, as in a strange country, as one that dwelled in tents, etc. bècause he looked for a city, having a foundation, whose builder and maker is god. The, 136, Semblance. The Heathen excepted against the old Christians, not only as men void of good works; but full of evil works▪ s Tertul. in Apol They called them (saith Tertullian) incestos, homicidas, Infanticidas, sacrilegos, pessimos, nocentissimos, publicum odium, hosts humani generis, omnium scelerum reos: Deorum, Imperatorum, legum, morum, naturae totius inimicos. Incestuous; manslayers, killers of children: Church-robbers, most wicked, most hurtful, the public hatred, the enemies of mankind, guilty of all kind of wickedness: enemies against the Gods, against the Emperors, against the laws, against good order, against nature itself. And in like sort do you slander us Protestants, and call us t Harding in Confut. fol. 75 Lecherous Lurdanes, u fol. 323. Sacrilegious church-robbers x fol. 114. profane Hellhounds, y fol. 256, Devilish villains, z fol 131. the devils children, a fol 24. the devils bondslaves, b fol. 131. the devils clawbacks, d fol, 81. Sathanists, e fol. 69. Satan's scholar f fol, 111. Satanical spirits, g fol. 338 Satan's brood, h fol. 342. Satan's captives, i fol, 202. Limbs of Antichrist, k fol. 195. ministers of Antichrist, v fol, 288, l fol, 48. the head of Antichrist, m fol. 212. the synagogue of antichrist, and Lucifer, n fol, 323, Apostates, o fol▪ 155, thieves, p fol, 131. despisers of god, q fol, 81, Caluinists, r fol, 222: Turkish Huguenots, s fol 114, wicked Cham's brood: t fol, 121, cursed Canaanites, ⁿ shameless heretiques, x fol, 42, Zuing lians' rabble, y fol, 207. Mad Dogs, b Possivinus de Atheismis protestantium z fol 1. axes, a fol. 1. asses, Atheists, and what not? Yea, (which all the world knoweth to be a most vile slander) c Andraea▪ jure givicius lib, tit evangel quinti professores Protestants (say you) articulum omnino nullum tenent Symboli apostolici, Protestants hold not one article of the apostles creed. The 137. Semblance. The Heathen reputed Christians to be the very cause of all God's plagues, and punishments. d August de civit, Dei lib: 2 cap. 3. Factum est (saith Saint Austen) Vulgi proverbium, plwia defecit causa christianorum, it is become a proverb among the common people, our rain faileth us because of the christians: so it is become a proverb in my native Country, (as a learned e Master Leygh Pastor of Standish in Lancashire in a Postscript to the Papists joined to his soul's Solace: against sorrow preacher that dwells there reporteth) it was a good world when mass was up, for then all things were cheap. the: 138: semblance: The Heathen despised the religion of the old Christians, because it came not from Rome, Athens, or some other such like place. f Orig Contra Celsum lib, 1 Dogma christianum (saith saint Origen, speaking of the pagan Celsus) affirmat à Barbaris accepisse ortum, hoc est à judaeis. Celsus affirmed, that the doctriu of the christians had it beginning from barbarous people, that is, from the jews. To this pagan may you fitly be resembled: for you despise our Religion, because it began g Harding in his confut, of the Apol, (as you usually say) not at jerusalem, but at Wittenberg, and was delivered unto us first by an Apostata, and not an apostle. But one that was julium sydus, a jewel in his time, hath answered fully to this your vile Cavil, and wicked slander. the 139 semblance, The Heathen were at great strife among themselves, and some were of one sect, some of another: so are your Thomists, and Scotists, at great strife about the distinction of Merits, of Congruity, and Condignity: and your Canonists and Schoolmen are by the ears together, about auricular confession: the ʰ one sort concluding it to be, de iure humano & positivo: the other, de iure divino. There is also great contention between your Nominals and Realistes, and between your Jesuits, and secular priests. So that we may say of them, as Saint Basil said of the like wrangling Sophisters in his time▪ k Basil, in Hexam, Non op us est, ut nos contra illos pugnemus, cum illi mutuis dissensionib us sufficiant ad suam ipsorum doctrinam evertendam: we need not contend against them, seeing that they themselves may suffice to overthrow their own doctrine, by their dissensions one with another. the 140. semblance. Albeit the Heathen were at strife among themselves; yet did they upbraid the old Christians, from their strifes and contentions, l Vide Clem Alexaend lib: 7 Strom: Vos Christiani dissidetis inter vos ye Christians descent among yourselves. m Ibid, Licet omnes, Christianismi titulum sibi vendicent, tamen alia aliam execratur, & condemnat: quare vestra religio vera non est, nec à deo originem ducit. Albeit all claim the title of christian religion, yet one sect ourseth and condemneth another: your religion therefore is not true, neither hath it beginning from god. Yea, n Chrysost. in Act: homil, 33: venit Gentilis, & dicit, vellem fieri christianus: sed nescio cui adhaeream. Multae inter vos sunt pugnae, seditiones, ac tumultus. Nescio quod dogma eligam, quod praeferam. Singuli dicunt, ego verum dico: the heathen man cometh and saith I would be a christian, but I know not whom I should follow: there are many quarrels, seditions and tumults among you. I cannot tell what doctrine to choose, and what to set before other. For every one of you saith, I say the truth. So do you come, and say, we would be Protestants; but we know not whom to follow. There is much strife and contention among you: for some are Protestants, some Puritans, some Brownists, some Familists, and some are mongrels in religion, to day with the Protestants: tomorrow with the Puritans, and constant in nothing so much, as in inconstancy. It is true indeed, there are some harebrained, inconstant, and fickle-headed fellows among us, that are much like Ekebolius the Sophist of Constantinople, who (as Socrates ● Socrates Histor. eccles, lib 3, cap, 13, reporteth) before Julian was Emperor, carried himself as an earnest Christian: under julian he became an Apostata, and a pagan? and after Julian he would be a Christian again. There are also some hote-braind, inconsiderate and giddy-headed fellows among us: who are still scalding hot in desire of their pretended reformation, and consider not that it is very decent, and becoming their duty, to apply themselves to the custom of the place where they live and not to divide themselves in matters of ceremony, from the unity of the Church. When Christ himself was upon the earth, he accommodated himself to the customs of the Countries where he conversed, and observed their common customs, for the avoiding of offence p math, 17, 27, Lest we should offend them (saith he to Peter) go to the sea, and cast in an angle, and take the first fish that cometh up, and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of twenty pence: that take and give it unto them for me, and thee. And in his steps trod the Apostle saint Paul, when he q Act 16. 3 Circumcised Timothy▪ r Act, 21. 24 shaved his own head in Cenchrea, and ˢ Purified the Men that had made the vow, and contributed with them, that they might shave their heads, But these men decline the path, which the blessed Entitled the Picture of a Puritan, Apostle trod, and renew the ways of the cursed anabaptists, as I have showed at large in a book extant to the view of the world. By this than you see that we that are Protestants, do abhor them that are the Authors t See his majesties speech in the upper house of Parliament march. 19 1603 of contentions in our Church: and do hold their sects (to use his majesties words) unable to be suffered in any well governed common wealth. Let v 1 Cor, ● 10. me therefore entreat you to join with us that are x vide Minutium foel. in Octavio. peaceable Protestants, and are ⁿ knit together in one mind, and in one judgement, as the Apostle hath commanded us, The, 141, semblance. The y Doctor Hill in his Quartron of Raysens Heathen contemned the religion of the old Christians, and would not come to their places of devotion because (forsooth) they wanted altars so do you contemn our Religion, and refuse to come to our Churches, because we have no altars. But we answer you, as Clemens Alexandrinus answered them: z Clemens Alexand lib, 7: storm We have an altar▪ and what manner of one? The earthly congregation, & company of those that bow themselves in prayers, etc.: or as S. Origen answered Celsus, a Orig. Contra Celsum lib 8 our altars and our temples are the spirits of good men, which smell as sweet incense, together with the vows and prayers of a good conscience. What comparison is there betwixt those of thine and these, O Celsus? The, 142, Semblance. The Heathen looked for a Day: and this Day was the destruction of the Christians, and the setting up of altars and idols. b Apud Aug in Psal 70 Ad certum tempus sunt christiani: postea peribunt et redibunt idola: redibit quod erat antea: these christians are but a while, fall they shall, and that shortly, then shall our Idols come again, and it shall be as it was before, Yea, Ecce Aug ibid., veniet tempus: ut finiantur, et non sunt Christiani, Sicut caeperunt ab aliquo tempore, it a usque ad certum tempus erunt. Behold the day will come, when all these Christians shall have an end. As they had a time to begin, so shall they have a time to continued. In like sort did your resolute and high aspiring catholics look for A day: and this day was the late intended dismal day, & their setting up of idols & altars again in our churches. But in stead of idols & altars which they looked to have, they shall have gallows and halters which they deserved to have. The, 143, semblance, Themistius an heathen Philosopher, went about (as c Socrates lib. 4 cap 27 Socrates recordeth,) to persuade Valens the Emperor, that the variety of sects was pleasing unto God, while he was worshipped in sundry sorts: so do you exhibit supplications unto the kings most excellent majesty, for a toleration of your Romish religion, & therein d In a suppli. cation exhibited to the King's Majesty you go about to persuade his Highness that it will be acceptable to god, grateful to all catholic Princes & Honourable to his Majesty. But give me leave to reason with you a while: do you think, that the toleration of more religions than one in one kingdom, is a thing acceptable to God? why then did e Revel, 3, 16 God threaten the Church of Laodicea to spewher out of his mouth, was it not because she was f Ibid, Lukewarm and neither hot nor could in religion, and will he not as strictly examine this church of England, whether she be hot or could, zealous or remiss, in his service? why did the g Revel, 2 14 Lord reprove the Church of Pergamus; was it not because she h Ibid et vers, 15, tolerated them that maintained the doctrine of Baalim, and them that maintained the doctrine of the Nicolaitans? and will he not as sharply reprove this Church, if she tolerated them that maintain the doctrine of the Romish Revel 2 20, Baalites, and Nicolaitans. Why did the ⁱ Lord blame Thiatyra? was it not because she k ibid., suffered, the woman jezabel, which called herself a prophetess, to teach, and to deceive his seruaents, to make them commit fornication, and to eat meat sacrificed to idols: And will he not as greatly blame this Church, if she suffer the whore of Babylon, which calleth herself the Vicar of Christ, to teach, and to deceive his servants, to make them commit spiritual fornication with her, and to be drunken with the wine of her fornication? Why was the l Num, 25. 3 lords wrath kindled against Israel? was it not because m Ibid. Israel worshipped the idol God of the Moabites, which was in the hill Peor? and will not his wrath be kindled against us, if immunity be given to serve such Gods, as likes ourselves, and to deal in his service, otherwise than he hath prescribed? O not: his jealousy burneth like fire, and we are to think, that he that executed his fierce wrath upon those that offered but strange fire, will much more execute his fierce wrath upon us, if we offer to strange Gods. In a word; Eliah rebuked King Ahab and the commons of Jsrael, and said, n 1 reg 18, 21. How long halt ye between two opinions? If the Lord be God follow him: But if Baal be he, then go after him. He said not to the King & Commons of Israel why permit you not those that will to the lord, and those that list to Baal. But if the Lord be God, follow him: forsaking all other, For he will not surrender any piece of his glory to any other, but is so jealous of it, as that he will be served alone, without any corrivals, with all our heart, soul and strength, as he hath often enjoined. And thus you see, that your wished for toleration is not acceptable to God: now let us see, whether it would be grateful to all Catholic Princes, as you pretend it would be. But admit it would be so, what though? do you think, that a King furnished with so rare gifts of wisdom, learning, and virtue, will displease God to please men, and break the very first of God's moral o Exod. 20, 3. precepts to content them? I deny not but that his Highness may lawfully content foreign Princes in some things: as namely, he may (though some Puritans have p In my hearing. said the contrary) make a league and covenants of peace with them, upon even and just conditions, as appeareth by these places of scripture: Rom. 12. 18. If it be possible, as much as in you is, have peace with all men, Heb. 12. 14. follow peace with all men. Deuteronomie 20. 10.. When thou comest near unto a city to fight against it, thou shalt offer it peace, and if it answer thee again peaceably, and open unto théè, then let all the people that are found therein, be tributaries unto thee, and serve thee. But if it will make no peace with thee, but war against thee, then shalt thou besiege it. Thus Abraham made a league of peace, q Gen, 14. 13. with Eshcol and Aner, Kings of the Amorites, and r Gen. 21. 24. with Abimelech, King of the Philistims. And thus Isaac made a league with s Gen▪ 26. 31. Abimelech, and jacob with Laban: and Heber the Kenite, ● Gen 31, 44 45, u judges 47. 17. with jabin the king of Hazor, and in like sort did x joshua 9, 16. joshua make a league with the Gibeonites, David with y 1. Sam 27, Achish, king of Gath, and Solomon with Hiram king of Tyrus. z 1. Kings, 5, It is not then to be denied, but that his Majesty may lawfully make a league of peace with Kings that are different in religion, and thereby gratify them: but he may not gratify them, by reversing that heavenly decree●●f the king of Kings, ( a Mat. 4 10. thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve) with establishing two religions in one kingdom: the one authorised by Christ jesus, and bequeathed in his last will and testament, to the Church: the other devised by Antichrist, and flatly repugnant to the verdict of the sacred scriptures, & to the judgement of the ancient church. But you say in the third place, that to tolerate your pretended Catholic religion, would be a thing Honourable to his Majesty. I answer, that herein you are both deceived yourself, and also labour to deceive his Majesty: for the Lord hath promised to honour those, that honour him: and threatened to despise those that despise him. His words are these: ( b 1. Sam 2. 30. ) them that honour me, I will honour, and them that desptse me, shall be despised. To draw towards a conclusion, in the end of your supplication to his Highness, you say thus: the free use of our religion we request, if not in public Churches, at lest in private houses: if not with approbation, yet with toleration, without molestation. I answer with the words of a Reverend Bishop: c B. Bilson in his book, entitled the true difference between Christian subjection and unchristian rebellion. part 1, pag, 36. The privateness of the place, when the fact is ill, neither acquitteth the doer from wickedness, neither excuseth the permitter from negligence: No corner is so secret, no prison so close, but your impiety there suffered, doth offend God, infect others, and confirm your own frowardness. If your religion be good, why should it lack Churches? if it be naught; why should it have chambers? A Christian Prince may not pardon or wink at falsehood. This Reverend Bishop may fitly be compared to S. Ambrose, who when Valentine was requested to wink at the renewing of an altar for the pagan in Rome, dissuaded him in these words: d Ambrose lib, 5 epist▪ 3: all men serve you that be Princes, and you serve that mighty God. He that serveth this God, must bring no dissimulation, no connivence, but faithful zeal and devotion: he must give no kind of consent to the worship of idols, and other profane ceremonies: for god will not be deceived, who searcheth all things, even the secrets of our hearts. But I forget myself very much, in speaking thus much against toleration of more religions, than one, in this king doom: for God hath given us a King, who is so far from granting a toleration, as that he hath made this solemn protestation: I do protest before God and his Angels, that I am so constant for the maintenance of the religion publicly professed in England, as that I would spend my dearest blood in defence thereof, rather than the truth should be overthrown. And if I had ten times as many more kingdoms as I have, I would dispend them all, for the safety and protection thereof: & likewise if I had any Children, that sholdyeld either to the Popish faith or faction, I desire of God, that I may rather see them brought to their graves before me, that their shame may be buried in my life time, never to be spoken of in future ages. the, 144, Semblance, The Athenians (as Diodorus a Diodor. Sicul Bibl: lib. 13, Siculus recordeth) threatened to kill those that spoke any thing against their heathenish Religion: so there are five of your Romish, or rather Roguish Catholics, that have vowed, and bound themselves by the sacrament, to kill the Honourable Earl of Salisbury, ( b Ester 16. 13 The Earl of Salisbury in his answer to certain scandalous papers ) our preserver, which hath done us good in all thiugs: as Artaxerxes said of Mordecai. But his honour hath vowed that he will not so much, ᶜ as once entertain a thought to purchase a span of time, at so dear a rate, as for the fear of any mortal power, in his poor talon (as it pleaseth his Honour to call it) aut Deo, aut Patriae, aut Patri patriae deesse. He singeth to his soul, with the sweet singer of Israel: d Psal, 27, 1: The Lord is my light, and my salvation, whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life, of whom shall I be afraid? Yea, e Psal: 3 6, I will not be afraid for ten thousand of the people, (much less for five) that should beset me round about. Good Luck have you with your Honour, we wish you prosperity. the, last, semblance, The f Socrat Hist, Eccles lib, 3, cap, 12. Apostata julian was very eager to get money from the Christians by his polling, exacting, and oppressing of them: but when he Commanded the jews to build the temple of jerusalem, in spite of Christ who had foretold that it never should be builded again, it is certain, that he spared no cost at all, to further that vain work. In like sort may we say of you Popish Recusants▪ you are not now so liberal to the poor, (I speak what I know to be true of many of you, both in the Northern and Western parts of this Land) as you have in former times been. In steed of hospitality heretofore maintained▪ now hedgehogs lie under your walls, and we sells devil in your parlours, and Martin's breed in your windows. You remove your households to London; and take a Chamber there, where you may live private, and no man call you to accounted, whether you be Protestants, or Papists. But albeit you are straight-handed enough, in doing good to those that are of the household of faith, yet stretch you out your hands to the Jesuits and seminary priests, whom you keep in ᵍ close lofts, without either windows, or doors that can be espied: for proof hereof, (besides mine own experience) I refer you to your own writers. The Jesuits (say your h In their discovery Pag. 19 Secular priests) became our collectors, or rather not ours, but their own; to whom for their accounts, the false steward in the Gospel, may give place. One jesuite hath taken up at times above five hundred pounds that was given to the imprisoned Priest▪ then at Wisbich, viz employed the same, at his own pleasure, Piercy the jesuite escaping from Wisbich, took fraudulently from benefactors abroad fifty seven pounds, seventeen shilinges. And in the year after he stole twenty seven Pounds, of the common money, by the consent of other his fellows jesuits, they have also so fleeced their favourits, as that over and above their own expenses (which are exceeding great) they have been able to sand out long since, two thousand and two hundred pounds to the low countries. Yea the jesuite Holt and his companions gathered (as the secular Priests report in an other i In their Abstract pag 75 book against them) such an infinite mass of money from the Catholics in England, for dispensations, or under colour of expending it to their own uses, as many credibly affirm it, to exceed the sum of fifty thousand pounds English: which makes two hundredth millions of Italian scutes, Not to omit your Vault-enginers, h See Thomas Winter's Confession: Sir Euerard Digbie towards the maintaining of the Popish pioneers, and the buying of powder to blow up the Parliament house with, etc.: promised fifteen hundred pounds: Master Francis Tresham promised two thousand pounds: and Master Percy promised all that he could get of the Earl of Northumberlands rents, which was about four thousand pounds, and to provide many galloping horses. And thus, as the l Mat. 26. 15 chief priests offered judas thirty pieces of silver, if that he would betray Christ unto them: so did the chief of these your traitors, offer to their fellow Judasses, some fifteen hundred pounds, others two thousand, and others four thousand, towards the betraying of the most christian King, and the most carefuil nursing father of the Church of Christ. But what need I extravagate from my theme? what need I wander from the Gentiles to the jews? Did they not resemble the Heathen herein? yes verily; for the forenamed ᵐ Athenians put forth a proclamation, that Diodor. Sicul. Bibl, lib, 13. whosoever it were that could kill Diagoras, one that spoke much against their heathenish superstition, and their false and feigned Gods, he should have an honourable reward, that was, a Talon of silver for his labour. And thus you see, how that Papism is flat Paganism: and that you come not behind the Pagans in above sevenscore several things: now it remaineth, that I set down some things, wherein you go beyond them, and are worse than they. (1) The Heathen knew, that every true body is circumscribed, that is to say, limited and bounded: and that to be a body, and not to be circumscribed, importeth contradiction. For if the dimensions be essential to a body, and if it be necessary, that the dimensions be terminable; (which was never denied of any of the heathen:) than it followeth of necessity that it is circumscribed. And if this necessity doth accompany all bodies in general, how much more doth it accompany an human body, which is not mathematical, neither composed only of matter and form, but which is organical, composed of unlike parts? now then, n August de essent. divinit. we must believe (to use Saint Austen words) that the son of God according to his deity is incorporeal: and incircumscriptible, but according to his humane nature, corporeal and local. And we also believe with o Aug. ad Dardan. & Tract. 50 in Johan. him and with the stream of the p Vigilius contra Eutichet. lib, 4, cap. 4. Theodor. dial. 2 Fulgentius ad Thrasymund. lib: 2, cap. 5. Origen. Tract. 33. in math. Ambrosolib. 10 in Luc. 24. Doctors, that this circumscription agreeth with the body of our Lord, who is above, clothed with heavenly glory, but not spoiled of his humane nature. To conclude then, it followeth hereupon, that you assigning to christ such a body as is not circumscriptible in the sacrament, are indeed the far worse than the Heathen, who grant that every true body is circumscribed in a place. (2) The very Heathen know it to be impossible, for one body to be in more places than one, at one time. But you deny this true principle of Philosophy, when you fond imagine that the body of Christ can at one time be in heaven in earth, yea in as many places upon the earth, as is the sacrament, (3) The Heathen accknowledge it to be an apparent truth, that no natuarall body, can at one and the same time have contrary and divers qualities. But you deny this, when you teach, that the body of Christ can be in one place local, in an other place not local, in one place with quantity, in an other without quantity, in one place finite, in an other infinite. (4) The Heathen granted, that every natural body, is subject unto the natural dimensions of a natural body, viz, to height, breadth and depth, But you deny this, when, you assign to Christ such a body in a sacrament, as hath not the said natural dimensions. (5) It was held for an axiom among the Heathen, that no Accident can be with out his subject. But you hold, that accidents may be with out their subjects when you teach, that the roundness, sweetness, whiteness and the relish of bread, can be with out bread. (6) The heathen held, that an argument drawn a testimonio sensuum, from testimony of the outward senses, is of great moment. Sensuum (saith the Heathen a Cicero 2. Academic. Orator) it a clara et certa sunt indicia, ut, si optio detur naturae nostrae, et ab ea aliquis aliquid requirat, contentanè sit suis integris incorruptis que sensibus, aut postulet melius aliquid, non videam qnid quaerat, amplius: whereunto agreed that of the Poet, b Lucretius: Quid referemus enim, quod nobis certius ipsis, sensib usesse queat, etc. Yea, this kind of reasoning is so forcible, as that the very Angels of Heaven have used it. For the Enangelist testifieth, how that the Angel of the Lord which descended from Heaven at Christ's resurrection, did draw an argument from the sense of seeing, to prove an article of the faith. c math. 2, 8, 5, 6 I know (said he to Marie Magdalen and the other Mary) that ye seek jesus which was crucified: he is not here, he is risen, as he said: come, see the place where the Lord was laid: And again, d Verse 7, behold he goeth before you into Galilee: there ye shall see him. Nay, Christ himself used this kind of Reasoning, when he proved the truth of his body, by an argument drawn from the evidence of the out ward senses e Luk 24, 39, . Behold (said he to the Eleven, & them that were with them) mine hands and my foots, for it is I myself, handle me. and see: for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me, have. And the same Argument may we fitly use against you that hold that the bread and wine in the Eucharist are transubstantiated and changed into the very body & Blood of christ. Behold (may we say unto you) the bread & the wine in the Eucharist: for it is not the very real body and blood of Christ: for see, smell, touch, and taste it, for by seeing, smelling, touching, and tasting thereof you shall found, that they have neither flesh, blood, nor bones, as Christ had The very Heathen shall rise in judgement against you, and condemn you: for verily they were not so void of sense & reason, as you are. (7) The Heathen held it as a principle among them, that one disparate cannot be predicated of another. From whence I reason thus: One disparate cannot be predicated of another: but bread and she body of Christ, are ex genere disparatorum, disparates: therefore the one cannot thus be predicated Hic panis est corpus meum of the other, except a tropical predication be admitted. And consequently, you do very absurdly, in taking that properly, which is to be taken tropically. (8) The Heathen did not privilege any man from erring, as appeareth by these their common speeches. 1 Humanum est errare, labi, decipi. 2 Plura ignoramus, quàm scimus, 3 Maxima pars eorum quae scimus est minima pars eorum quae ignoramus. f Bellar lib 4 de pontif., rom. cap 13, Greg●ride Va. lentia Analis. fidei. Cathol. lib, 8 cap 2, et, 3 et Rhemis, annot, in Luc, 22, sect, 11, Bellarm, lib, 4, de pontif., rom. cap, 52 But ᶠ you privilege the Pope from erring, and hold, that he by himself alone decreeing any thing concerning faith, cannot be deceived: and that in precepts of manners also prescribed to the Church by the Pope, there is not any fear or danger of error. But I showed you at large heretofore, that many of the Popes have erred both in matters of doctrine and of manners, and that your own writers have been driven to confess the same. I will only at this time acquaint you with a wo●s then heathenish heresy of one of your Popes. Take a view of the Council of Constance, and there you shall found, that Pope john the 23. denied the immortality of the soul, the resurrection of the dead, life everlasting, nay, any life at all after this life. The words of that Council are these: h Council Constantiens, sess 11 Dictus, johannes Papa vigessimus tertius saepè et saepius coram diversis prelatis et probis viris pertinaciter Diabolo suadente, dixit, asseveravit, dogmatizavit et astruxit vitam aeternam non esse, neque aliam post hanc: quinimò dixit, et pertinaciter credidit animam hominis cum corpore humano mori, et distingui adinstar animalium brutorum, dixit que mortuum semel etiam in novissimo die minime resurrecturum, contra articulum de resurrectiane mortuorum. Hereunto I will adjoin one of your own writer's definition of an heritick, and so prove by an invincible argument that this Pope John was a blasphemous i George Doulie in his Instruction of Christian religion, pag, 2, heretic. An heretic (saith one, of your Priests) is he which being baptised: doth wilfully deny any article of the Catholic Roman faith; or believeth any thing that is contrary to the same: But I assume Pope John the 23, being baptised, did wilfully deny articulum de resurrectione mortuorum, the article concerning the resurrection of the j Hermes in Paemand. Plato lib. de Anima Cicero lib de natura Deorum et in Somnio Scip, Ovid, lib, 1 Metamorphos. Plutarc. de sera Vindicta. dead: therefore he was an heretic. An heretic? nay, he was worse than a very Pagan, or Ethnic: for the very ᵏ Ethnics believed, that the soul is immortal and that there is a life after this life, and that they should ek gays es phaos' elthein, come again out of the earth into light: as said Phocilides. (9) The Heathen l Arist, Topic lib, 1. cap, 1, Philosopher held that to be probable, which either all men held to be a truth, or the most of the wiser sort. So that he preferred the judgement of many before the judgement of one, But you prefer the judgement of the Pope before the judgement of the whole m Papae sententia totius or bis beneplacito praefertur Rod. Cupers de Ecles world, And yet it is well known (as I showed heretofore out of one of your own writers) that many of your Popes have not understood their Grammar. (10) n Asphonsus a Castro de haeres: lib. 1 cap, 4, I would they were as wise in one thing as Sibylla, an Heathen prophetess, was, who in one of her books of Oracles, layeth down an Oracle for truth saying, o Sibyl lib 8 Oracul. Esset anax Policranos echou pelas onoma pont ou: there shall be a king with many heads, (which is either to be understood Synechdochechally for the succession of Popes, or metonimychally for his triple crown) having a name near to Ponti, that is Pontifex. (11) In your Mass (which you account the very marrow of your matins) your Priests have more Apish tricks, and histrionical gestures, than the very Heathen Mimics or Tragedians used upon the stage. Yea they do nothing else almost but make a dumb show, which I take to be the cause, why the people in Italy do not say to their neighbours, when they are going towards the Church, Let us go hear a Mass: but, Let us go see a Mass. And indeed they do nothing else there, but see a Popish shaveling, first bowing his body: secondly arising in histrionical manner, and kissing the altar on the right side: then bowing again and looking towards the host, joining his hands, wiping his fingers lifting up the host, after that bowing again, lifting up his eyes and lifting up the host above his shaven Crown. Then he setteth it down, uncovereth the cup, and holdeth it between his hands, Keeping his thumb and forefinger together: then he boweth and lifteth up the cup a little, then to his breast, or above his head. This done, he setteth it down again, wipeth his fingers, spreadeth his arms a cross, boweth his body, kisseth the altar on the right side, smiteth his breast. Then he uncovereth the cup, maketh five crosses with the host, twice beyond the cup, on each side, under the cup and before it. Then he layeth his hands upon the Altar, and the Deacon reacheth him the Paten, which he putteth to his right eye, then to his left, & maketh a cross with it, kisseth it, & layeth it down. This being ended, he breaks the host in 3, holdeth two pieces in his left hand, & one in his right over the cup, which with a cross, he letteth fall into it The priest than kisseth the Corporas, the Deacon taketh the pax from the priest, giveth it to the Subdeacon, and he to the Queer: then bowing himself, he first taketh the body, than the blood, and so goeth to the right horn of the Altar. Then the Subdeacon Poureth in wine; and the Priest rinseth the cup, washeth his hands, turneth himself to the people, cometh again to the Altar, and turneth himself to the people the second time. Then bowing his body, and closing his eyes, he prayeth to himself. After that he riseth again, maketh the sign of the cross, and so bowing again, he goeth from the Altar, and the people go home: having seen these Popish tricks, which are fit to mock Apes withal, then to edify the flock of Christ jesus, which he hath purchased with his precious blood. (12) There were some of the Heathen that saw the vanity of their religion, Seneca said to this effect: p Magis ad morem, quam ad rem pertinere, August: de Civitate Dei lib, 6, cap. 6, we will do worship: yet so as we remember that this worship, is rather for fashion sake, then for any thing else. And Lactantius speaketh to Tully on this wise: q Lactant, de Orig. error. lib 2, cap. 3. thou dost worship to these earthly things, made with hands, thou dost the same things which they do: which thou confessest to be the veriest fools of all. To apply this, Seneca and Cicero, shall rise in judgement with you Popish recusants, and condemn you: for they (albeit they were Heathen) saw the vanity of their religion, but you (albeit you are Christians, and may have the Bible in your mother's tongue, among you) yet do you not see, nay you will not see the vanity of those Popish tricks and toys before mentioned. (13) The r Fraus non dissoluit, sed distringit periurium Cicero. The Earl of Salisbury in his answer to certain scandalous papers Heathen held, that craft in an oath doth not attenuate, but aggravate the perjury. But you hold, (as hath been already showed) that a pretended Catholic, is he be convented before any of our Magistrates: may lawfully swear by an equivocation, and deny all truth under a mental reservation. This your new trick of answering by an equivocation, hath the Right Honourable ˢ Chancellor of our University, lately showed to be a strange and gross doctrine an irreligious Principle: yea a dissembling trick of the Priscilianhereticks. (14) The t Fides Hosti data sernanda, Heathen held that covenants of peace were to be kept, albeit they were made to an enemy. But you hold it for a good Catholic doctrine, that fides non est servanda cum hereticis, id est protestanti bus, as you interpret it. But this your opinion I have heretofore touched and refuted; (15) The very Heathen perceived and confessed that Kings should meddle in matters▪ of religion. For Aristotle writing of the first institution of Kings, showeth how many things they were by office to meddle with u Arist in P●lit, lib 3 cap, 11, strategoes en, (saith he) ki Dicastes ho basileus, ki ton prostous theous kurios, that is, a king in old time was the leader in wars, pronouncer in judgements, and overseer of religion, And again, tapros tous theous apodidotai tois basile usi: divine things were committed to Princes. How far do you come short of Aristotle, who x Rhemin Cor, 14 16, et Bellarm, de pontif., lib 1, cap, 7, hold that princes have no authority to give voice deliberative or definitive, in matters of Religion: nor to make laws ecclesiastical concerning the same: (16) Themistocles an Heathen said, that he had rather die then bear arms against his country. But your holy y Pius 5, in bull la Volumus et jubemus ut adversus Elizabetham Angliae reginam subditi arma capessant father hath taught you, yea commanded you to take arms against your Sovereign. (17) z in his Speech before allead. geds Lastly the very pagan (to use his majesties words) did never maintain by the grounds of their religion, that it is lawful to murder, Princes or people for quarrel of Religion. But you, and all other grounded Papists, do hold it lawful to murder Protestants Princess and People: and that the Pope is the right a Papa et verus dominus tempora li. 'em, etc. Ioh, de Parisiis de potestate Regin et Papali cap 5. Lord of the temporalities: so as he may take from any man that which is his own. And by holding these two dangerous positions, you make yourselves unable to be tolerated in his majesties Dominions. And thus I leave you, wishing first of all your conversion: if that cannot be had, my next wish is, that his Majesty would deal with you, as a skilful surgeon dealeth with his patient, a part of whose body being putrefied, and eating on by degrees, threateneth the loss of the whole, if it be not stayed in time. Resecandae sunt putridae carnes, & scabiosa ovis a caulis repellenda, ne tota domus, massa, corpus, & pecora ardeant, corrumpantur, putrescant, intereant. Hieron: apud Alphons. de just a haereticorum punitione lib. 2. cap, 12. FINIS.