THE PICTURE of a Puritan: OR, A Relation of the opinions, qualities, and practices of the Anabaptists in Germany, and of the Puritans in England.  
Wherein is firmly proved, that the Puritans do resemble the Anabaptists, in above fourscore several things.  
By Oliver Ormerod, of Emmanuel College in Cambridge.  
Whereunto is annexed a short treatise, entitled, Puritano-papismus: or a discovery of Puritan- Papism.  
Newly corrected and enlarged.  Nulli dubium est, ut qui inter se discrepant, in ecclesia oppugnatione consentiant, juxta illud, quod Herodes et Pilatus inter se discordantes, in domini passione amicitia f●ederantur. Hieron. in Isaiam. Lib. 3. Cap. 5. 
LONDON Printed by E. A. for Nathaniel Fosbroke, and are to be sold at his Shop, at the West end of Paul's. 1605.   

To them, and to none but them, whom the Puritans have laden with contumelies, slanders, defamations, and oppr▪ bri●us detractions: O. O. presenteth this Picture.  
SO great was the skill of Apelles, Pyrgoteles, and Lisippus, as that Alexander the great commanded, that none should paint him in colours but Apelles: none should grave him in stones but Pyrgoteles: & none should feign any part of his princely person but Lisippus.  
So cunning was Zeuxis, as that he painted a boy carrying grapes, that the birds came and picked on them, as if they had been natural grapes.  
So skilful was Praxiteles, as that he graved in a Marble stone▪ the image of Venus, so perfectly and so lively in each point, that a certain young man f●ll in love with the image, and came often in the night, when no man knew, to kiss and to embrace the image of Venus.  
Yea, so cunning were Painters in former ages, as that it moved Saint Crysostome, to break out into this speech: 
a Chrysost. in Psal. ●0.  Pictores imitantur arte naturam, et colores coloribus permiscentes, visibiles corporum depingunt imagines, & faciunt homines, & animalia, & arbores, & Reges, & rusticos, & barbaros, & pugnas, & rixas, torrentes sanguinum, & lanceas, & loricas, & scuta, & sedemregalem, & imperatorem sedentem, & barbarum subditum, & gladium acutum, & flwios decurrentes, & campos varijs floribus adornatos, & omnia quae videntur, per artem imitantes, mirabilem historiam videntibus praestant.  
All which notwithstanding, the painting of a Puritan is so hard and difficult, as that the joint skill of Apelles, Pyrgoteles, Praxiteles, and of all the cunning Painters in Saint Chrysostoms' time, will scarce reach this object.  
For as Proteus changed himself into divers shapes, & appeared sometimes like a flame of fire, sometimes like a Bull, and sometimes like a terrible Serpent: so the Puritan changeth himself likewise into divers shapes, & appeareth sometimes like a Protestant, sometimes like a Papist, & sometimes like an Anabaptist.  
It may therefore seem strange, that I, who never before handled the Pencil, would for my first counterfeit shadow the Puritan. I am (I confess) at a loss, and know not herein what to answer: only this I say concerning this my first picture, as Phydias said concerning his first protraiture: if it be liked, Iwill draw more besides this; if loathed, none but this.  
But to whom shall tender & present this picture? may I not to the dead, as well as to the living? are the bars of the grave so unexorable, as that they can deny a man to continue that affection to the memory of those that are dead in the Lord, which he carried to them beiug alive?  
May I then present it to the dead and breathless corpse of our late Queen of famous memory? may I there cry out against the ungratefulness of those Ministers, who have never ceased since she was gathered to her Fathers until this day, by their conferences in private, by their Brokers & coursers up and down, by their books and Pamphlets in print, and by all other means that possibly they could devise, to deprave her proceed, & to defame that most ancient kind of commendable church-government, which through God's great mercy and Godly laws of her Highness, was according to his holy word established amongst us?  
This putteth me in mind of Scipio Affricanus the elder, who made the City of Rome (
a Exanguen et morituram Val. Max▪ Lib. cap. 3.  being in a consumption, and ready to give up the Ghost) Lady of Africa. At length being banished into a base Countric-towne, his will was, that his Tomb should have this inscription upon it: Ingrata patria, ne ossa quidem mea habes: unthankful Country, thou hast not so much as my bones.  
And doth not the unthankfulness of the Puritan-faction, give me just occasion to make application hereof? How many blessings did the Lord bestow upon this Church and commonwealth, in the halcyon days of Queen Elizabeth?  
To name only one particular, she made this Church being in a consumption, and ready to give up the Ghost, Lady of Europe.  
But what is become of their gratitude? How quickly have they exiled her from their thoughts and buried her memorable acts in oblivion? Ingrati puritanis.  
But to leauc the dead and come to the living: may I in all humility present it to you my Liege Lord and Sovereign? I cannot conceal from your Highness, how that their chiefest writers have blazed and divulged abroad, that 
a T. C. lib. 2. pag. 4●.  Christian Sovereign's ought not to be called heads under Christ, of the particular and visible Churches within their Dominions: 
b T. C. lib. 1. page. 192.  that they ought not to meddle with the making of Laws, orders, and ceremonies for the Church: 
c Exhort. to England pag. 91 92.  that their discipline ought to be set up: that all Princes ought to submit themselves under the yoke of it: yea, and that what Prince, King, or Emperor shall disannul the same, he is to be reputed God's enemy, and to be held unworthy to reign above his people.  
But who am I, that being not called for, should dare to come before so high and mighty a Prince, & b●ing so small a present?  
It was the danger of hester's life, though she was a Queen, to come before the King, unless she were called for. For it was their law, that 
d Hester, 4,  whosoever, man or woman came into the inner court, which was not called, should die, unless the King held forth his golden Rod.  
May I present it to you of his Majesty's most Honourable privy Counsel, upon whose hands also our late Queen leaned?  
The Puritans which slander her Highness, cannot but slander your Honours, whom she did associate to herself, in administering her government. For she imitated 
a Hester. 1.  Ahashuerosh the King of the Persians, who did nothing in the remove of Vashti the Queen, without the advise of the seven Princes which saw the kings face, and sat first in the Kingdom.  
But who am I, that I should dare to interrupt your grave consu●tatiōs with so slight a schedule? Right reverend Fathers of the Church, to whom God hath given his urim and his Thummim, may I present it to you? The Right reverend & gracious Lord, who not long since was among you, as a Diamond set in Gold, had great experience of their opprobrious speeches & peremptory practices, & could have spoken by experience, as Aeneas did of the troubles of Troy, et quorum pars magnafui. And it is not unknown to any of your Lordships, how that the Puritans blush not to write, that 
b Hay any work. pag. 14. 15. 20. 21. & Marli● marprelate in his Epistle to ● terrible Priests.  Archbishops and Bishops are superfluous members of the body of Christ: that they are unlawful, false, and bastardly governors of the Church: that they are the ordinances of the Devil: yea, that they are petty Popes, petty Antichrists, Bishops of the Devil and incarnate Devils.  
But who am I that I should presume to present this to so great Personages? Alas, I am peccatorum maximus, Apostolorum minimus.  
Cathedral Churches, may I tender it to you? I cannot but tax the railing 
c Admoni. pag. 224. 225.  Puritans, for calling you the dens of loitering lubbers, where (as 
d Ibid.  they say) M. Deane, M. Vicedeane, M. Cannons, or M. Prebendaries the greater, M. Petty Cannons, or Cannons the lesser, M. Chancellor of the Church, M. Treasurer, or otherwise called judas the purse-bearer, the chief chanter, singing men, special favourers of Religion, squeaking Choristers, Organ-players, Gospelers, Pistlers, Pensioners, Readers and Vergers, live in great idleness, and have their abiding.  
But not to forget my Mother, and her Sister, the famous Universities of Cambridge and Oxford: may I present it to you? I hold it an especial part of my duty, to acquaint you with their slandering and odious traducing of your Children. 
a S. H. in his plea. page. 193. 194.  There is (saith a favourer of the newfangle faction) a strange manner of preaching in use in many places, both in the Universities and elsewhere, which no man well affected, but if he knoweth it, he doth exceedingly pity it. One, as though the Pulpit were but a scaffold, in which he like a Master of Defence were to play his prizes, and to give testimony of his wit, playeth upon every word, and descanteth upon every letter in his text, and as though the Scripture were but a Rattle for children and fools to make sport withal, he tosseth it hither and thither, and will not fail to offer it any violence, to frame it to an imagined conceit, and to draw it to an idle purpose.  
An other, as if his purpose were only to amaze the vulgar, and to affright and astonish the multitude, mounteth aloft, and is all in his great words, and new coined phrases, more fit for a Mimic or Tragedian, than a Minister of the Gospel. A third, to gain the opinion of a profound man, that looketh into matters of more depth than the common sort, rubbeth over the unsavoury writings of some Motheaten Friar, and by an uncouth fashion of teaching, together with a multitude of allegories and intricate distinctions, amazeth both himself and all those whose unhappy chance it is to be his hearers. A fourth, to be reputed a good linguist, and a man of great reading, stuffeth his Sermon with a legion of allegations, and enterlaceth it with many shred of Latin and Greek, and by that means though his Doctrine perhaps may be profitable, yet he confoundeth the memory of the diligent and attentive hearer.  
To conclude, I present this to them, and to none but them, whom the Puritans have (and whom have they not?) laden with contumelies, slanders, defamations, opprobrious detractions and uncharitable accusations: ask pardon for my boldness, and patronage for these my simple endeavours, and beseeching the God of heaven and earth, to multiply his richest blessings, upon all those that in simplicity 
●. Cor. 1. 12  and Godly pureness have their conversation in the world.  
The true affectionate Lover of all that are pure in heart. Oliver Ormerod.   

To all Favourites of the Puritan-faction, peace and truth.  
IT is not unknown to any that hath perused the writings of Heathen writers, how that the Persians kept in their Houses, the picture of an Epicure, sleeping with meat in his mouth, and most horribly overladen with wine, that by the view of such an ugly sight, they might learn to eschew the means of the like excess.  
It is also reported, that the Parthians, to make their youths, to loathe the alluring trains and deceitful enticements of Harlots, had most curiously carved in their Houses, a young man blind, besides whom was adjoined a woman far more excellent than Pygmalion's image: having one hand in his pocket, as noting her theft, and holding a knife in the other hand, to cut his throat.  
The like means (loving Countrymen) wish I you to use, for the restraint of Puritanisme. Vouchsafe (I beseech you) to keep in your Houses, this Picture of a Puritan, as the Persians did the Picture of an Epicure, and the Parthians the Picture of an Harlot: and I doubt not, but the very sight thereof, will bring yourselves, your wives, your Children, and your servants, to a full detestation of the Puritan-faction.  
Farewell.   

To the Reader.  
WHen Bucephalus was painted, Apelles asked the judgement of none but Zeuxis: now the Puritan is painted, I appeal only to the learned. As for the unlearned, I say unto them, as Apelles said to the Shoemaker:  
Ne suitor ultra crepidam:  

judge thou not of this pictures thigh,  
Except thine Art do reach so high.    

The Picture of a Puritan: OR, A relation of the opinions, qualities, and practices of the Anabaptists in Germany, and of the Puritans in England: Made Dialoguewise, in a most plain and familiar manner.  The Englishman. 
WEll met Sir, let us two walk and talk together (as those two 
a Luk. 24. 14  Disciples of Christ did, that went from jerusalem to Enimaus) of the things which are come to pass in these our days.  The German. 
What things?  The Englishman. 
Art thou only a stranger in England, and hast not known the things which are come to pass therein in these days? hast thou not heard of a schismatical and undiscreet company, that resemble the Anabaptists in Germany?  The German. 
I have read in one of your English writers, that 
b Perkins in his treatise of applying gods word to the conscience. page v●●.  there is in England a Scismatical and undiscreet company, that would sleme to cry out for discipline, their whole talk is of it, and yet they neither know it, nor will be reform by it: that they are full of pride, thinking themselves to be full when they are empty: to have all knowledge, when they are ignorant, and had need to be catechised: that the poison of Asps is under their lips, and that they refuse not to speak evil of the blessed servants of God. Are these they that resemble our Anabaptists?  The Englishman. 
Yes, if you please to relate the opinions, qualities, and practices of your Anabaptists, you shall see plainly, that our Puritans do shake hands with them.  The German. 
I will with all my heart.  The Englishman. 
Then begin when you will.  The German. 

The 1. semblance.  A 
a Vide Sleidan libe 4, & 6.  'Bout six years after that Martin Luther began to preach the Gospel, the Devil (to disturb this work) stirred up certain rash-pates and giddy-headed preachers, that misliked not only the Doctrine of the Pope, but of Luther also.  The Englishman. 
When Queen Elizabeth (whose memorial be blessed for ever) came to her Crown, she found the church of England (as 
b inveni lateritiam, relics mar●●rean●.  Augustus did the City of Rome) of brick, she turned it into marble: she found it in the sands, she set it upon a Rock, the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles. Yea, she caused the everlasting Gospel to be preached throughout all her Realms & Dominions, and restored both the letter of the Bible to a vulgar language, and all her people to freedom of conscience, who might not read it before, but privily and by stealth, as men eat stolen bread. But the Devil (to disturb this work) stirred up certain hot-brained, inconsiderate, & importune Preachers, who neither liked of the Pope, nor of the present estate of the Church, for want of some purity, as they fancied. Yea no sooner had snee taken the Sceptre into her Princely hand, but some of these audacious spirits (being then beyond the seas) sent word into England, that their pretended holy 
a see their exhortation to England printed at Genena Anno Dom. 1559.  discipline ought to be set up: that all Princes ought to submit themselves under the yoke of it, that what Prince soever did disannul it, was to be reputed God's enemy, and to be held unworthy to reign above his people. And not long after some of them returned home and spoke very homely against the book of common prayer, and against the rites and ceremonies of the Church of England. But they being then (as they have been ever since) over matched by the reverend Fathers of our Church, childishly made their complaint to Master Beza, as appears by an 
b Epist. 8.  Epistle of his, which he wrote to Doct. Grindal, in the year of our Lord. 1556 and by an other 
c Epist. 12.  Epistle, which he wrote about a year after, where he hath these words: Being 
d saepe multunques. etc.  often and greatly desired of my dearest beloved brethren of the Churchof England, that in their miserable estate I would give them some counsel wherewpon their consciences might rest: (Diversmen holding divers opinions) a long time I deferred for divers weighty causes so to do: and I protest, that most willingly I would yet have been silent, but that I suppose I should greatly offend, if I should still r●●ect their so many petitions, and pitiful groaning. By this it appeareth, that these groaners disliked not only the Church of Rome, but the Church of England also. Now let us see the cause of their dislike?  The German. 

The 2. semblance.  The Anabaptists disliked the Church of Germany, because it was not so perfect, nor served so fitly for the planting of purity, as they thought requisite. And for this cause M. 
e Caluin. adverse. Anabap.  Caluin doth not unfitly resemble them to the Puritans in former ages. In times past (saith he) there were two sects of Heretics, which troubled the Church greatly: the one sect of them were commonly called Puritans, the other Donatists. And both of them were in the same error that these dreamers are in: seeking for a church, wherein there should want nothing that might be desired.  The Englishman. 

a T. C. Repl. page. 17. sect. 4  And in the same error was one T. C. a chief founder of the Pnr●tan-factiō. I will acquaint you with his words: The Church in the whole and general government and outward policy of it, may be pure and unspotted. And to this his error doth his Proselytes also incline over-farre. For which cause, we may justly term them anabaptistical, proud, and Hypocritical Puritans, and say unto them, as 
b Caluin. adverse. Anabapte art. 2.  Master Caluin said to the Anabaptists in his time: Cum sub specie studij perfectionis, imperfectionem nullam tolerare possumus, aut in corpore, aut in membris Ecclesiae: tunc diabolum nos tumefacere superbia, et hipocrisi seàucere, moneamur: Where as under the colour of a desire of perfection, we can tolerate no imperfection, either in the body, or in the members of the Church, then may we be admonished that it is the Devil which puffeth us up with pride, and seduceth us with Hypocrisy. But to proceed: were there many of these Sectaries in Germany?  The German. 

c Vide Sleid. Lib. 4. et 6.  There were but very few of them at the first, but afterwards they did grow to such a multitude, as that there arose up in arms above an hundred thousand of them at once, who sacked sundry towns tn Germany, murdered some of the Nobility, and committed many other outrageous villainies. Yea their factious teachers by their continual clamours, Philippics, and invective declamations against the enormities (as they supposed) both of the state ecclesiastical & civil, had so whetted them on, as that they could not wholly be vanquished, until 
b Sleidan lib. 7 paulo p●st medium.  almost an hundred thousand of them were slain by the united forces of the Princes of the Empire.  The Englishman. 
How did they grow to such a multitude?  The German. 
THey had their private conventicles, where they 
The 3. semblance.  linked themselves together, and gave mutual faith and oath each of them to stick to other.  The Englishman. 
So hold our Sectaries also their conventicles in private houses, and in secret corners, which 
c Veritai non ●●●rit angulos  truth seldom seeketh. For example sake, and for veryfying what I have said, I will acquaint you with some of them.  
It was at a private 
d Anno, 1572,  conventicle, where the admonitors agreed, that the admonition (which the late Archbishop confuted) should be compiled and offered to the Parliament approaching.  
It was at their private conventicles, where they framed the said platform.  
It was at their private conventicles, where they concluded, that their said giddy fancies should be committed to one of the chiefest of them, to be corrected against an other Parliament, which 
e Anno, 29, Reg Eliz.  then approached.  
It was at a private 
f In Convent Anno, 1588.  conventicle, where conference was had again about this second corrected platform.  
It was at a private conventicle, where the doubts which grew at their former assembly, were debated.  
It was at a private conventicle, where it was concluded (T. C. being present) that their platform was an essential form of discipline: and where they subscribed to the greatest part of it, without any further expecting the Magistrate's pleasure.  
It was at a private 
a In Convent. Anno. 1588.  conventicle, where those things which in their forenamed subscription they expected, were discussed, and reserved to be examined by certain breherens in an other assembly.  
It was at a private 
b In cantab. Anno. 1599  conventicle, where T. C. with his adherents, corrected, altered, and amended the said book of discipline.  
It was at a private conventicle, where they did (as the 
c B. examined in the Star-chamber.  examinate remembered) agree amongst themselves, that so many as would, should subscribe to the said book of discipline  
It was the departure from a private conventicle, for the which G. craved pardon 
d G. to F.  Touching my departure (saith he) from that holy assembly I crave pardon.  
It was at a private conventicle, where L. was to give notice. 
e L. to F.  T▪ C. saith, that at your late being at Wroxall, you determined your next meeting should be at Warwick, at the Quarter Sessions: that Tuesday for the humbling of ourselves, & the next following to consult of other matters: his request is, that you would give notice thereof to the brethren of our conference.  
It was at a private 
f Anno. 1584.  conventicle, which nine of this faction craved to be had about certain matters that were to ●e presented to the Parliament▪ We (say they) have as yet no new matters to perform unto you, but as son as we have concluded any thing: we will forthwith send unto you the same and others.  
It was at a private 
g See the ●uruey. Cap. 4.  conventicle, where these questions were propounded to be determined, viz: 

1. Whether there ought to be Doctors in every Church?  
2. Whether the Doctors may administer the Sacrament?  
3. Whether there ought to be women Deacons in every reformed Church?  
4. Whether the Presbytery be not described too generally, and very imperfectly?  
5. Whether suspension may be proved to be a censure of the Church?  
6. Whether the Elders ought not to be perpetual, as the pastors are?  
7. Whether men must stand to the sentence of the greatest part of the Consistory?  
8. Whether Marriages and Spousals, and things concerning them, do belong to the Ministers?  
9 Whether there should be sureties in baptism?  
10. Whether there ought to be no restraining from, or noting of such a one, as for disobedience to the consistories Admonition, is in the way of excommunication?    
It was at a private conventicle, where 
a T. S.  one of this cozening crew requested, that this doubt might be resolved, viz: Whether he himself (being greatly indebted, and having not sufficient to discharge the same) should pay his Godly creditors first, or his profane?  
It was at a private 
b Anno. 1586  conventicle, where P. craved F. to move another such like question, and his words were these: Move T. C. and the other our reverend brethren, to deliver their judgements, weather all laying out of hair be forbidden to all women: especially at their repair to the public meetings of the Church?  
It was at a private 
c Anno. 1587.  conventicle, where it was questioned Whether it were in any respect tolerable for women that profess Religion & the reformation, to wear doublets: little hats with feathers, great gowns after the French and outlandish fashion: great Ruffs, & hair frizzled, or set out upon wire?  
Yea, there was a private conventicle, or an assembly of three Ministers, appointed out of Essex, Cambridgeshire, and Norfolk, to meet the 8. of May, 1582. at Cockefield, there to confer of the Communion Book, what might be tolerated, and what necessarily to be refused, in every point of it: apparel, matter, form, days, fastings, injunctions. etc.  
But what need I mention these things that were done in the days of Queen Elizabeth?  
It is most apparrently known to all men, that they have never ceased since his majesties most happy entry into this Realm, until this day, to meet together in private houses, & there to meddle with matters too high for them. To insist only in one particular, did not H. I. send a letter from Woodstreet in London, june. 30. 1603. (& therein enclosed the form, to be subscribed unto) to one in Oxford; desiring so many hands thereunto, as conveniently he could get? Now where was this platform framed, which H. I. enclosed in his letter? was it not at a Classical Assembly? And was not the voice jaacobs' voice, & the hands the hands of Esau?  
And thus by their plotting & plodding together, they (being few in number at the first) are grown to such a multitude, as that one of their own preachers said openly in a Pulpit, he was persawded that there were 10000 of them in England, & that the number of them increased daily in every place of all states & degrees. For the proof hereof, I refer you to one of their own 
a Page 3. & 4  Books, entitled, The state of the Church of England, laid open in a conference between Diotrephes a Bishop, Tertullus a Papist, Demetrius an Usurer, Pandochus an Innkeeper, and Paul a Preacher of the word of God. But what need I send you to the infectious writings of factious writers? who knoweth not, that the Puritan-Preachers have infected all the parts of the Land, & distracted millions of the vulgar sort from their love & liking of the present state? yea, these their factious leaders have so set them on fire, as that they are become scalding hot in desire of innovation.  
And although our gracious Sovereign hath continually laboured since his majesties entry into this Realm, until this present time, by what means he possibly could devise, to extinguish and quench their raging heat: yet so fiery are many of these factious spirits, as that no liquor will quench their furious flames. But his Majesty will (I hope) keep them from kindling again, lest a greater mischief do ●as●e thereupon. For as a fire tha● i● kept down▪ if it break for●h again, doth burn more fierecly: so these, fiery spirits that have of late been kept down, if they break forth again, they will rage's more furiously.  
But not to digress any suithe●▪ show me (I pray you) more at large, how the Anabaptists did spend the in time at their private conventicles?  The German. 

The 4. semblance.  THey spent it not in Gluttony and drunkenness; but in fasting, in praying, and in humbling of themselves: 
a Vide Bulling. Fol. 11. & 17.  And by these their Hypocritical fasts, they seduced many of the vulgar sort.  The Englishman. 
Although extraordinary fasts, had always their emanation from public persons, as appeareth by these places of Scripture: Num. 10. 8. jud. 20. 2. 26. 1. Reg. 21. 8. 2. Chron. 20. 3. 1. Sam. 7. 6. Ezra. 8. 21. Esther. 4. 16. Though the keeping of them without the knowledge & authorizement of the Magistrate, be a minishing of his authority, by preventing his decree, and controlling (as it were) his government; though it be a prejudice against him, either that he doth not know the conveniency & necessity of extraordinary humbling of men's souls, or that he is too slack and overcolde in Religion; though it argueth an affectation of singularity, and giveth sentence against all the Land beside of negligence in God's affairs: yet it hath been an ordinary thing with our Sectaries, to keep such extraordinary fasts, whereunto the authorizement of the Prince was not had.  
They have often (as a credible man reporteth) run to Fasts, which were kept with a manifest disobedience to the powers that God hath ordained. His words are these: 
b King upon jonas▪ Lect. 35.  In many the dangers of our land, both at home & abroad, many the members and subjects thereof, as if our country had no more Orators, and there were none to stand in the gap but themselves, have assembled together, either in towns 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, and some time in a private ●●use to fast. But if you will not believe his report, I will show you their own hand writing, and acquaint you with a letter which nine of our Sectaries wrote to F. Anno. Dom. 1584. wherein it is thus written: Being persuaded that you and our brethren with you, have determined what course is to be taken, and used for the procuring some good to be done at the Parliament: we thought it necessary to write unto you, that we might be certified of your purposes herein: whither you mind to be exercised in prayer and fasting, & upon what day, or what things else you would wish to be performed, by us that may stand the church in stead. This also was Hackets practise, as appeareth in a postscript of a Letter to T. C. I will humble myself 
a S●e the conspiracy for reformation▪ Page. 16.  (saith he) before his Majesty in fasting and prayer, & I hope that God will stir up some others to join with me in spirit, though few or non● in person do, only one I am assured of.  
It is likewise 
b In the consp. Page. 10.  reported, that Coppinger requested two of his familiar acquaintance, to f●st and pray with him, for the obtaining of a Widow, to whom he was a suitor. This Coppinger (though some say the contrary) was one of the Puritan-faction, as appeareth by these words, which are found in a letter which he wrote to Hacket: 
c Conspir. pag. 23.  The zealous Preachers (saith he, speaking of a certain factious Ministers that could not digest the orders of the Church) are to be in the star-chamber to morrow. etc. myself (if I can get in) am moved to be there, and I fear (if sentence with severity be given) I shall be forced (in the name of the great and fearful God of heaven) to protest against it.  
But what need I make this digression? They themselves cannot deny but that they have drawn the people from their work, called solemn assemblies, and proclaimed fasts without the knowledge and authorizement of the Magistrate. And by these their Fasts (which were indeed plausible in the sight of men) have they commended themselves to the people, we one credit to their faction, and seduced a number.  The German. 
Yea, but our Sectaries had many other sleights besides this.  The Englishman. 
What other?  The German. 

The 5. semblance.  Ask you me this question? Is it not recorded in 
a Bulling. adverse. Anabap. Lib. 6. cap, 10, ●t Gualther in 1. Cor. Epist. dedicat.  Books extant to the view of the world, that they disturbed the Church of Germany, under the pretence of reforming it? And thus when they did intend evil, they did pretend good.  The Englishman. 
So have our Sectaries also their pretences & cloaks to shadow their contentions withal: for they pretend the glory of God, & the reformation of the church, as appeareth by a Petition, which they lately exhibited to the King's Majesty: wherein they term themselves his majesties most humble subjects, the Ministers of the Gospel, that desire not a disorderly innovation, but a due and godly reformation.  
Lo here, they presumed to tell his Highness, that they sought to reform the church; when indeed they went about to deform it. But tell me, had your Anabaptists any other sleights?  The German. 

The 6. semblance.  YEs, 
b Quia nulla specie illustriore seduci possunt miseri Christiani. etc. Caluin adverse. Anabapt.  because fillye Christians, which with zeal do follow God, cannot by any other more notable show be seduced, then when the word of God is pretended: the Anabaptists (against whom we writ) have that evermore in their mouths, and always talk of it.  The Englishman. 
He that did transform himself into an Angel of light, being a fiend of darkness, hath also taught our Sectaries to inform the common people, that the word of God is on their side, it being against them. But hereof we will speak more afterward. Now let me entreat you, that if you have observed any other policy in your Sectaries, you would vouchsafe to relate it.  The German. 

The 7. semblance.  YEs, 
a Gastius de erroribus Catabapt.  I have observed with Gastius, that under pretence of zeal, they subvert whatsoever other men have builded & with Zuinglius, that 
b Zuinglius in Ecclesiast.  whatsoever they speak, they speak it of zeal.  The Englishman. 
Our gracious Sovereign (whom the Lord tender as the apple of his own eye) hath observed the like zeal in our Sectaries, as appeareth by these his words:  

c See the proclamation for the authorizing of an uniformity.  At our very first entry into this Realm, being entertained and importuned with the informations of sundry ministers, complaining of the errors, and imperfections of the Church here, aswell in matters of Doctrine, as of Discipline: Although we had no reason to presume that things were so far amiss, as was pretended, because we had seen the Kingdom under that form of Religion which by law was established in the days of the late Queen of famous memory, blessed with a peace and prosperity, both extraordinary and of many years continuance (a strong evidence that God was therewith well pleased.) Yet because the importunity of the complainers was great, their affirmations was vehement, and the zeal wherewith the same did seem to be accompanied, very specious: We were moved thereby to make it our occasion to discharge that duty which is the chiefest of all Kingly duties, That is, to settle the affairs of Religion, and the service of God before their own. etc. 
The 8. semblance.   The German. 
I Have also observed with 
d Zuinglius in Elencho contra Anabapt.  Zuinglius, that it was Melancholy and wrath, and not true zeal, which the Anabaptists made show of.  The Englishman. 
I will not any way prejudice the zeal of alour obstinate Ministers but I must needs tell you this, that in many of them I find a preposterous, an inconsiderate, and a brainsick zeal, or (to use 
a Zuing. L. de Baptism.  Zuinglius his words) saturninam quandam & Melancholican ingeniorum contumaciam: But let us leave this their pretended zeal, and come to some other particulars: had they no other sleights besides these that you have already mentioned?  The German. 

The 9 semblance.  YEs, 
b Sleidan. in C●m. 5.  there was one Thomas Muncer a Preacher, who (as Sleidan and other Germaine-writers report) did greatly labour both by his conferences in private, & by his Sermons in public, to draw the common people from their liking of the present estate.  The Englishman. 
It hath likewise been the practice of our factious preachers in their verbal Sermons, to speak against the stat● ecclesiastical, the book of common prayer, & the rites & ceremonies of the Church of England. For the proof hereof I refer you to the very confession of their own lips. On Tuesday (saith 
c Anno 1586.  one of their own side) T. C. kept Master Fens Lecture: the Text, Psalm▪ 122▪ 4. Unto the end: taking thorns as T●emelius doth, and urging the discipline: the want whereof he affirmed to be the cause, that some friends for sook our Church.  
And as this is the practice of some of our factious Ministers in England: so is it also the practice of the same faction in Scotland. Yea, 
d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Page▪ 38. 39  they snapper out grossly with the truth of their intentions: informing the people, that all Kings and Princes are naturally enemies to the liberty of the Church: and can never patiently bear the yoke of Christ: with such sound Doctrine fed they their flocks.  The German. 

The 10. Semblance.  THe Anabaptists did not content themselves therewithal; but to the end they might do the more harm, they published factious Books to the view of the world, as may be gathered by this speech of Master Zuinglius to the Magistrates in his time: 
a Zuinglius. de Baptism.  Si hoc cuivis hominum impune facere licebit, ut quae privato suae rationis consilio adinuenit, in vulgus spergat, inconsulta, imo resistente etiam universatotius ecclesiae authoritate, brevi plus errorum quam fidelium & Christianorum in ecclesia erit cernere: If it be lawful for every man to publish abroad among the people, those things which he hath devised of his own head, before he hath consulted with the Church, nay against the authority of the whole Church: in short time we shall see more errors in the Church, than there be faithful men and Christians. And in an other place: Si hoc permittamus, ut capitosus quisque & male-feriatus homo, etc. If we suffer every heady & brainless fellow so soon as he hath conceived any new thing in his mind, to publish it abroad, gather disciples, and make a new sect: in short time we shall have so many sects & factions, that Christ which scarce with a great pain and labour is brought to unity in every church, should be divided again into many parts.  The Englishman. 
Neither did our Puritans therewithal content themselves; but that their poison might rankle the farther, to the disturbance & peril both of the Church & commonwealth, they have published a great number of Books, which are as fit for the fire as the Books of curious Arts, Act. 19 Yea, and they have also exhorted the common-people to peruse these their seditious Pamphlets. I pray you (say they) 
b In a Book of theirs entitled, the state of the church of England. etc. Page, 10.  when you come to London, see if you can get these books: The Ecclesiastical Discipline: A learned discourse of Ecclesiastical government▪ The Counterpoison. A Se●mon on the 12. to the Romans▪ and Ma●ster Cartwights last reply: some of which books have been extant this dozen years, and yet are not them answered: and you shall there find that the government of the Church is contrary to the word of God.  
But not to speak only of their Books in general, l●t us take a view of the Contents thereof in particular.  The German. 
Our Sectaries did stuff their books with invectives and outcries, both against the Magistracy and the ministery.  
TO begin with the Magistracy, they taught (as Master 
The 11. semblance.  
a Bulling. adverse. Anabap. Fol. 19  Bullinger also recordeth) that the Civil Magistrate, hath no authority in Ecclesiastical matters: and that he ought not to meddle in causes of Religion and Faith.  The Englishman. 
Our Sectaries come not far behind them herein, as appeareth by these their speech's: 
b T. C. lib. 1. Page. 192  for the making of orders and ceremonies in the Church (saith T. C.) they do (where there is a constituted & ordered Church) pertain unto the Ministers of the church, and to the Ecclesiastical governors: and that as they meddle not with the making of civil Laws, and Laws for the commonwealth: so the civil Magistrate hath not to ordain ceremonies pertaining to the Church.  

c T. C, lib, 2, Page, 1●5.  And again, No civil Magistrates in counsels or assemblies for Church-matters, can either be chief moderator, over-ruler, judge or determiner. 
d Admon. 2  No civil Magistrate (say the admonitors) hath such authority, as that without his consent it should not be lawful for ecclesiastical persons, to make any church-order or ceremony. 
e Admon▪ 1  And again: To these three jointly, that is, the Ministers, Seniors and Deacons▪ is the whole regiment of the Church to be committed.  
By this you may see, that our Sectaries do shake hands both with the Anabaptists & the Papists. But albeit these three contrary factions have united & joined themselves together, and do all jointly oppugn the Prince's authority in causes ecclesiastical: yet the authority of the sacred Scriptures, the judgement of the ancient Father's, the decisions of ancient Counsels, and the practi●e of Christian Princes in the p●imatiue Church, are able to sever and disjoin all their forces.  
To begin with the Scriptures, they give sufficient warrant to civil Governors to ordain Laws in Ecclesiastical causes; and do expressly teach, that 
a 2. Reg, 12, 4, 2, Chro. 19 4. Ibid●m. 30▪ 1 & 34. 3.  jehosaphat, Hezekias and josias, did make Laws for the recalling & excercising of the Service of God.  
As for the Fathers, they hold it to be an Oracle for truth, that 
b Aug. Epi. 48  Kings do serve Christ, in making laws for Christ. Yea, 
c Aug. Epi. 50  Rex aliter seruit Domino (saith Saint Augustine) quia homo est, aliter quia etiam Rex est. Quia homo est, ei seruit vivendo fideliter: quia vero Rex est, seruit leges just a praecipientes & contraria prohibentes convenienti vigore sanciendo: A King serveth the Lord one way as he is a man, and an other way as he is a King. As he is a man, he serveth him by living faithfully. As he is a King, he serveth him by making laws with convenient vigour, to command that which is right, and forbidden the contrary.  
But not to insist only upon Saint Augustins judgement, The 
d Vide Sozomen. lib. 1. cap 17.  Bishops that came to the counsel of Nice, gave to the Emperor supreme authority in making ecclesiastical orders; & committed the hearing and determining of their controversies to his highness.  
Christian Princes also have ever exercised this their authority. 
e Euseb. lib. 4. ●e vita constant.  Constantine called himself a Bishop out of the Church, and he made laws (as 
f Euseb lib. 2. de vita Const.  Eusebius recordeth) in things pertaining to holiness towards God, & to the appointing of meet things for the Church of God. Th●odosius his successor took the same course. 
a Sozomen. lib 7, 12.  He made most severe Laws against all those that crossed the stream of Christian Religion. Yea, 
b Vi●elib. 1. & 2, Legum Franciae.  all Princes and Potentates retained this their prerogative until the time of Charles the great, and Lodovicus after him. But by what other means did your lawless Anabaptists oppugn the Mgistrates' authority?  The German. 
Our Masterless and lawless Anabaptists, in process 
The 12. semblance.  of time, began to strike at the head of Government in general, & would have framed a body of men, like the body of Polyphemus, without his eye; or like the confused Chaos of old time, when height & depth, light and darkness, were mingled together: for they attempted (as 
c Hemingius et Bullinger adversus Anaba. Gastius de ●rro●ibu● catabaptist.  Hemingius, Bullinger and Gastius do record) a parity and equality of civil estates.  The Englishman. 
The Lord who made two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, the lesser light to rule the night, and who in the beginning established a superiority in all creatures: his will is, that there should be a Mastery and Domion in every order of men: and that parity in a Christian Commonwealth, should most carefully be shunned, as being the Mother of Anarchy and confusion.  
Nevertheless our Sectaries also (as hereafter shall be showed) have attempted parity in the Ministry: and I fear that equality of Ministers would pull on equality in the other estates. I fear (I say) and that not without cause, for the chiefest amongst them saith flatly in a book extant to the view of the world, that 
d T. C. page. 144. sect. 1.  The govennment of the Commonwealth, must be framed according to the government of the Church. From which words I reason thus: The government of the Commonwealth must be framed according to the government of the Church: but there must be equality (by T. C. his confession) in the Church: ergo. But to return to your Anabaptists; did they thus seek to overthrow your commonweal and state of government?  The German. 
YEs, and yet they in words protested, that they endeavoured 
The 13. semblance.  to take no authority from the civil Magistrate, as appeareth by these words of 
a Zuinglius in Ecclesiast.  Zuinglius: Though they protest and by oath dame, that they take any authority from Magistrates, yet shortly after we should have seen it come to pass, that they would have been disobedient to all laws of Magistrates, if once they had increased to that number that they might have trusted to their own strength.  The Englishman. 
Our Puritans will make as solemn protestations as any men can do, & by oath deny that which your Anabaptists did; but I protest (to use his majesties words) 
b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, L. 2. page. 42.  that ye shall never find with any highland or border thieves, more lies and vile perjuries, then with these phanaticke spirits, & we may well say of them as Zuinglius said of your Anabaptists: Though they protest, and by oath deny, that they take any authority from Magistrates, yet shortly after should we have seen it come to pass. etc. But I marvel they would attempt to overthrow the Magistracy?  The German. 
IT is not to be marveled at, for they sought (as Master 
The 14. semblance.  Bullinger saith) 
c Bulling. adverse. Anabapt. ●ol. 95.  to be free from all Laws, and to do what they listed. Their talk uttereth nothing else (saith 
d Gastius de erroribus Catabapt.  Gastius) but liberty in external things. Yea, It was their opinion (as one of your own 
e H●oker of ecclesiastical policy.  writers hath observed) that a Christian man's liberty is lost: and the soul of man redeemed by Christ, is injuriously drawn into servitude under the Yoke of humane power, if any law be now● imposed beside, ●he Gospel of jesus Christ.  The Englishman. 
Laws made without contradiction to positine Laws in Scriptures, and received by a whol● Church, are such, as that they which li●e within the bosom of that same Church must not think it a matter indifferent, either to yield or not to yield obedience. For (as Master 
a Perkins in his treatise of conscience.  Perkins says) wholesome Laws of men, made of things indifferent, so far forth bind conscience, by virtue of the general commandment of God, which ordaineth the Magistrate's authority: that whosoever shall wittingly and willingly, with a disloyal mind, either break, or omit such Laws, is guilty of sin before God. Yea, the very laws of men may after a sort be termed the law of God. The Emperors (saith Saint 
b Aug. Epist. 166. lib. ●. contra secundum Gandentii epistolam.  Augustin) when they command good, it is none but Christ who commandeth by them. Notwithstanding all this, our Puritans (upon my knowledge) think, that a Christian man's liberty is to live as he list, and for this cause some of them have refused to receive the Lords supper kneeling. etc. They will not (forsooth) have their souls drawn under the yoke of human power. And a thousand of the Clergy did not long since 
c See their surplication to the King▪  groan under the burden of human rites and ceremonies.  
Thus you see that our Sectaries think it servitude and an unsupportable burden, to submit their necks and souls to the yoke of human obedience in things indifferent: which (as our Gracious Sovereign hath well observed) 
d See the sum of the conference. page. 71  smelleth very rankly of Anabaptisme: comparing it unto the usage of a Beardless Boy, (one john Black) who the last conference his Majestye had with the Ministers in Scotland, in December 1602. told him that he would hold conformity with his majesties Ordinances for matters of Doctrine: but for matters of ceremony, they were to be left in Christian liberty, unto every man, as he received more and more light from the illumination of God's spirit, even till they go mad quoth the King, with their own light: but I will none of that, I will have one Doctrine and one Discipline, one Religion in substance, and one in ceremanie. But what other things have you observed in these your peevish and perverse schismatics?  The German. 
I Have observed, that they were of such a perverse nature, 
The 15. semblance.  as that they would not only take unto themselves liberty in things indifferent, and therein omit their duty: 
a Gastius d● erroribus catabapt.  but they endeavoured to the utmost of their power, to commit the quite contrary, that so they might cross the Magistrate.  The Englishman. 
That which you say was the custom of your Anabaptists hath been the custom of Heretics and schismatics, in all ages. The Eunomian Heretics in dishonour of the blessed Trinity, brought in the laying on of water in baptism but once, to cross the custom of the church, which did it thrice: other Heretics which held the Trinity to be three distinct, not Persons, but natures, abused the cereremonie of three times laying on of water, to the strengthening of their Heresy, and to the crossing of the custom of the Church in their times.  
The self same thing hath been practised by our schismatics: for some of them have sent their Servants to the Plough and Cart, upon the very feast of the Nativity of Christ, to cross the custom of our Church, which keepeth it holy. Others (as the reverend Fathers in Oxford were credibly informed) did 
b Oxford's answer to the Petition.  spend the fift of August last in fasting▪ to cross that authority which commanded them to celebrate it with joy and thankfulness for his majesties most strange and wonderful deliverance from the conspira●ie of the Earl of Gowrie. 
c King upon I●nas▪ ●ect. 36.  And I heard of a nation of m●n (saith Doctor King) when their King had intended a feast for the honour of his country, they on the contrary side proclaimed a Fast, as if God had sent them an Ambassador of the last judgement. And I know a society of men, who in the time of Lent, were wont to eat Flesh-meate seven days in the week, though out of Lent but five days. I think they did it for no other end, but only to cross the authority of that power which enjoineth us to abstain from Flesh-meate at that season of the year. Thus do they behave themselves much like them, unto whom it was said by Christ in the behalf of all painful Apostles and Ministers: We have piped to you, and ye have not danced: we have mourned to you, & ye have not wept. To conclude, they will ever be in an extreme: for when we Feast, they will Fast, & when we Fast, they will Feast. But tell me Sir, did they not also speak evil of them that were in authority?  The German. 

The 16. semblance.  YEs, they did (as Zuinglius reporteth) speak evil of the 
a Zuinglius in ●lencho contra Anabap.  civil Magistrate, & if at any time here proved them, than they strait way said, that therefore he was an enemy unto them, because they did tell him of his faults.  The Englishman. 
Your Anabaptists come far short of our Sectaries in this point: for many of them have reposed a great part of their Christian profession & zeal, in the reproaching and odious traducing of them that are in authority.  

h Exhortat. to England. Page 92.  They have exhorted the common people, to repute those Princes that live not under the Yoke of the pretended holy Discipline, for God's enemies: 
c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Page. 39  They have informed them, That all Kings and Princes are naturally enemies to the liberties of the Church. Yea, they made complaint to his Highness, that our late Sovereign made their yoke grievous: & that she had laid upon them an heavy burden of humane rites and ceremonies. They have depraved and slandered not only the Communion Book, but the whole estate of the Church, as it was reform by her Majesty: Yea in her highness life time, the state of this Church of England was so depraved beyond the Seas, by these our disciplinairians, as that it hath been conceived by Godly men in foreign Countries, that we have 
a Gualther episcop●, aliens. Anno. 1574.  No laws, no good orders, no discipline, but that every man may do what he list. But I pray you tell me, were not your Anabaptists punished for these their vile attempts?  The German. 

The 17. semblance.  YEs, but they greatly complained, that 
b Bulling. adverse. Anabapt Fol. 11.  nothing was used but violence.  The Englishman. 
So have our Sectaries also complained to the kings Majesty, that 
c Petition exhibited to the King's Majesty  they have been suspended, silenced, disgraced, and imprisoned for men's traditions.  The German. 
Well, let us leave this their impugning of the Magistracy, & come to their oppugning of the ministery. And let us begin with the Universities, because they are the ordinary means to maintain the ministery.  The Englishman. 
With the Universities? why? I hope they did not oppose themselves against the fountains and Welsprings of good learning.  The German. 

The 18. semblance.  YEs, 
d The Author of the Survey. cap. 26.  your own writers can te●l you, that they wrote very scornfully against the University degrees.  The Englishman. 
And to tell you the truth, so did our Sectaries too. 
e These words I found in a Manu-script of theirs.  Doctors in theology (say they) is unlawful: It is man's ordinance without t●●●ord of God: it cannot be taken without an idle oath▪ it is offensive to the Church of God: it is a matter of distinction of the minds of the Ministers: it is one of the swelling titles forbiddin to Ministers: it is a Relic of Rome, as are Priests, Deacons, archbishops: it is in regard of the form thereof, a manifest abuse of God's ordinance of his Ministers, after an apish manner, giving authority of preaching: it is an idle name to be called Doctors, except they have Scholars and do teach them etc. But what need I produce their Manu-scripts? It is 
a See their addition to the first part of the Admon. and T. C. Lib. 2. page 2●.  apparent enough in their Books extant, that they mislike the degrees of Doctors and Bachelors in Divinity.  The German. 

The 19 semblance.  YEa, but our Sectaries misliked not only degrees in the University, but in the ministery also. For the proof hereof I refer you to the express words of 
b Gerlach. in Hyper. Dan. Page. 3.  Gerlachius a learned man of Tubing. Linnet (saith he) titulos, etc. Although thou beholdest with disdain (as it were from above) the titles & orders, after the fashion of the Hypocrites & Anabaptists: yet with a vain persuasion of knowledge & foolish arrogancy, whereby thou contemnest our Countrymen in respect of thyself, and dost challenge especial knowledge to thee and thy fellows only: Plus turg●s quam omnes Doctores et Superintendentes nostri: Thou swellest more with pride than all our Doctors and Superintendents. And what cometh into thy mind, that thou shouldest cavil at the degrees of Ministers, as though it were not lawful to ordain such degrees for the building & government of the Church? Did not God himself in the old Testament, appoint chief Priests and Levites? and in the New Testament, gave he not some Apostles, some Evangelists, and some Pastors and Doctors? You see here that the Anabaptists contemned our Superintendents & beheld with disdain their Titles and Offices.  The Englishman. 
The Titles and Offices of Archishops, and Bishops, are more ancient and necessary, than the Titles and Offices of Superintendents are: for the Apostle Peter did (as Clemens hath observed) appoint in 
a Clemens in Compendiario Christiana Religion.  every Province, one Archbishop, whom all other Bishops of the Province should obey. And we read that Dyonisius Areopagita was 
b Volusus epist ad Nichol. 1.  Archbishop of Athens, and appointed thereunto by Saint Paul: that Timothy was 
c Chrysost. in 1. Timoth. 5.  Bishop of Ephesus: that Titus was 
d Chrysost. in 1. Tit.  Bishop of Creta: that Saint john 
e Euseb. lib. 3 cap. 23.  governed the Church in Asia, after his return from Pathmos that james was 
f Euseb. lib. 2. cap. 23.  Bishop of jerusalem: that Polycarpe was 
g Tertul. de Prescript.  Bishop of Smirna: that Demetrius was 
h Euseb. lib. 6 cap. 1  Bishop of Alexandria: that Saint Cyprian was 
i cyprian. lib 4 Epist. 8.  Bishop of Carthage: that Saint Gregory was 
k Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 14.  Bishop of Pontus: that Saint Chrysostome was 
l Theod. lib. 5. cap. 28.  Archbishop of Constantinople: that Theodoret was 
m Theod. epist add Leon.  Bishop of Cyprus. And in Elutherius his time which was Anno Dom. 180. when this Realm was first converted to Christianity, there was (as Master Fox 
n Tom. 1. page 146.  acknowledgeth) appointed in the same, three archbishops and 28. Bishops. All which notwithstanding, the favourites of the new fangle-faction, would have (instead of Archishops) an equality of Ministers. If you wi● restore the Church (say the Admonitors) to his ancient Officers, this you must do, instead of an Archbishop or Lord Bishop, you must make equality of Ministers. Yea, 
o T. C. lib, 2, page. 438.  the learnedst of them is not ashamed to write, that Archbishops and Bishops are new ministries never ordained by God.  The German. 

The 20. semblance.  A Although 
p Gerlachius. in Hyper. Dan. page. 30.  the Anabaptists pretended the forenamed equality, yet they sought Dominion, & laboured only to pull the rule from others; that the rule might have bo●●e in their own hands, and that they only might have borne the sway.  The Englishman. 
That our Puritans do the like, I prove it by the late Archbishop's experience. You desire (saith 
a In his defence of the answer to the Admonition, page 459.  he) this equality, not because you would not rule (for it is manifest that you seek it most ambitiously in your manner) but because you condemn and disdain to be ruled, and to be in subjection. Indeed your meaning is (as I said before) to rule and not to be ruled, to do what you list in your several cures, without controlment of Prince, Bishop, or any other. And therefore pretending equality, most disorderly you seek Dominion. I speak that I know by experience in some of you. But let us see what other speeches they delivered against your ecclesiastical Magistrates. 
The 21. semblance.   The German. 
WHat needs so many words? 
b Gerlacius in Hyper, Dan. Page. 30.  Gerlachius telleth you, that they disdained them, scorned them, & railed on them.  The Englishman. 
Yea, but they have not come near our Puritans in this point. I will acquaint you with some of their speeches which they have belched out against the Reverend Fathers of our Church. They 
c See their Book inituled Hay ye any work, page. 14. 15. 20. 21  blush not to say, that archbishops and Bishops are superfluous members of the body of Christ: that they maim and deform his body, making it by that means a Monster: that they are unlawful, false, and bastardly governors of the Church: that they are ordinances of the Devil: that they are in respect of their places, enemies of God: that they are Petty Popes, petty Antichristes, Bishops of the Devil: that the laws that maintain Archbishops & Bishops, are no more to be accounted of, than the laws that maintain stews: & that the true church of God ought to have no more to do with them & their Synagogues, then with the synagogues of Satan. But not to interrupt your speech any longer, what was the c●use that the Anabaptists railed on your church-governors?  The German. 

The 22. sen-blance.  surely 
a Bulling. advers. Anabap. Fol. 19 95. 242.  because they endeavoured to bring them to conformity by compulsion.  The Englishman. 
By the orders of our Church, and laws of the Realm, there is required of our Ministers a subscription to his Majestres lawful authority in causes Ecclesiastical, to the Articles of Religion, to the Book of Common Prayer, and to the orders, Rites & Ceremonies of our Church.  
Now because our Church-governors do (according to their duty) deprive those of their livings, that refuse to subscribe hereunto: The Puritans do complain of rigour, and revile Gods high Priest, which Saint 
b Act. 23. 5.  Paul repent he had ignorantly done, though that high Priest was an usurper.  
I confess indeed that they have yielded to subscribe to 
c See their petition to the King.  the Articles of Religion, and to the King's suprmacie; but this is not sufficient: for it is a thing too manifest, with what libeling and railing, the form of our Service, of our Ceremonies, of our apparel etc. hath been depraved and shamefully slandered by these factious Spirits. They have blazed and divulged abroad (as shall hereafter be showed more at large) that the Communion Book was culled and picked out of the Popish dunghill, the Mass Book: that it is Papistical: that it were better to conform ourselves in outward things to the Turks, then to the Papists. It behoveth therefore the reverend Fathers of our Church, to compel them to subscribe, not only to the Articles of Religion, and to the kings supremacy, but to the Communion Book also, and to the Discipline of our Church.  
Neither ought they to think, that they are too rigorously dealt withal, if that they be compelled & urged to show their conformity in all things; seeing that the same course is taken in all other Churches for the repressing of schism. To insist only in one particular, whosoever is made Minister at Geneva, he sweareth to keep 
a Vide leges Genevens. Fol. 3.  all their Ecclesiastical ordinances. Yea, we read 
b Vide Bezam in vita Caluin  that Master Caluin procured a general oath to be taken through out the whole City of Geneva, for the approbation thereof. Now why should not our Reverend Bishops have as free liberty to do the like? But tell me, did not your Anabaptists require a secret subscription of their followers?  The German. 
Yes, although they would not yield their conformity with us in observing the good laws and ordinances of our Church: yet privately (as 
c Sleidan. L. 6  Sleidan reporteth) they gave their mutual faith, and oath each to other.  The Englishman. 

The 23. semblance.  SO have our Sectaries also required a secret subscription unto such a new form of Discipline, as T. C. with his adherents (after many meetings, plottings and plodding) had devised. To verify what I have said, at a 
d Anno. Dom. 1588.  Conventicle in Coventry they subscribed unto the practice of the greatest part of their platform. And at a 
e Anno Dom. 1589.  Conventicle in Cambridge (where they corrected, altered, amended and perfected their Book of Discipline) they voluntarily agreed amongst themselves, that so many as would, should subscrible to the said Book. Yea, in their Book of pretended holy Discipline, it is ordained, that the Ministers shall admit none to the holy Communion, except they submit themselves to their Discipline.  
Thus you see that although our Sectaries refuse to subscribe to the good orders of our Church: yet, they themselves require a subscription, both of the Clergy and the laity. But I pray you, what were the things which they refused to subscribe unto? were they matters substantial, or accidental and ceremonial? 
The 24. semblance.   The German. 
WHat need you ask me this question? Master 
f Zuinglius de Baptism.  Zuinglius telleth you, that they went about innovations of their own private authority in those Churches, where the Gospel is 〈…〉, and 〈◊〉 in external things. 
a Zuinglius in Ecclesiast.  Again, he calleth them authors of contentions, and troublers of the Church, because they strove about external matters. Master 
b Bulling. advers. Anabaps.  Bullinger also proveth them to be contentious, because they troubled and divided the Church for external▪ matters: grounding his argument upon these words of Saint Paul: 
c 1. Cor. 11. 16  If any man lust to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the Churches of God.  The Englishman. 
Our, Puritans likewise dissent from us in things accidental and ceremonial: As for example, the Cap, the Surplice etc. are (as both 
d Peter Martyr in Epist. 3.  Peter Martyr, and 
e Beza in Epist 8. & 12.  Theodore Beza do confess) adiaphora, that is, things in their own nature indifferent: and yet nevertheless, we have many Ministers in England, that are of so perverse a nature, as that they will rather lose their livings, and forsake their callings, then wear them. But in so doing, what do they else but make known to the world their insolency and folly? For 
f Whitaker. de Eeclesi, controvers. 2. quest. 4 in respon ad ultimum Bellarmini arg.  (as Doctor whitaker's speaketh in our behalf) In rebus adiaphoris non improbandum esse communem ecclesiae cons●etudinem concedimus, & eam improbare, insolens & insanum esse dicimus cum Augustino: We grant that the custom of the Church, is not to be disallowed in things indifferent, yea, we avouch with Saint Augustin, that it is insolency and mere madness to disallow the same. But proceed.  The German. 
Having showed their dealing with our Arch-ministers: it remaineth that now I come to their practices against our inferior Ministers, the learned and obedient Clergy of the Church in Germany.  The Englishman. 
What did they quarrel with them too?  The German. 

The 25. semblance.  YEs, they bitterly inveighed against them, saying, 
a Bulling. Fol. 1. 11. 18.  that they were not ordinarily & lawfully called, because they were not called by the common people.  The Englishman. 
Our Admonitors say likewise in plain terms, that we 
b Admon. 1. Fol. 1.  have neither a right ministery of God, nor a right government of the Church. And they do also with your anabaptists pretend this to be a special grievance of theirs: namely, that the common people of every congregation may not elect their own Ministers. Yea, read these places, 
c T. C. Lib. 1. page. 35. Lib. 2 page. 121. 122▪ 125. 126. 229. etc.  of T. C. his writings, and you shall see what a plausible course he taketh, to win the favour of the vulgar sort. He telleth them that they are injured in many things, and entituleth them to a great interest in sundry Church-matters, viz: that they ought to choose their Ministers: that imposition of hands should be in their names: that the censures of the Church should be executed with the people's consent, etc. But what other things have you observed in these your quarrelsome Sectaries?  The German. 

The 26. semblance.  THey cried out against beneficed men, and said, that they had 
d Bulling. adverse. Anabapt Fol. 18. 102.  stipends & laboured not: that they were ventris Ministri, Ministers of the belly: and that they could not teach truly, because they had great livings▪  The Englishman. 
So do our Sectaries likewise beat the Pulpit, and cry out against Non-refidents, & double beneficed men, and tell the people, that they are 
e Isai. 56, 10. Ezekiel, 3, 18  I doll Sheyheards, dumb Dogs, no Ministers: and that they do fleece, but not feed their flocks. And this they do, not to reform them, (for they speak it usually behind their backs) but to defame them: not to promote the Gospel, but to bring them into hatred with the people, that thereby they themselves may the rather prevail in their enterprises.  
I would not have you think, that I allow either of dumb and greedy Dogs, which the sacred 
a jer. 48. 10. Isai. 62. 6. Act. 20. 28. 1. Peter. 5. 2.  Scriptures do disallow; or of negligent Preachers, whom 
b Concil. chalcedon. can. 10. council, Constantinopol. can. 24.  God's word also doth condemn; or of Nonresidents, whom the 
c conci, Sardicens'. can. 14.  Cannons of counsels, the 
d canon. 18. Apost.  Cannons of the Apostles, and the 
e Distinct. 39 can. Siquis vul● etc.  Cannon-lawe doth reprove: but I only dislike their anabaptistical manner of Preaching, viz: Their speaking against the sins of Magistrates, when there are none in presence▪ and their girding at their fellowe-Ministers, when there is not a Minister in their congregation besides themselves. This (I take it) is not that right dividing of the word, which Saint Paul commendeth to timothy: this is not that giving unto every one his portion and meat in due-season; which the Minister of the Gospel, as a faithful dispenser, and steward in the Lord's house, aught to know. But why did your Anabaptists thus cry out against benificed men?  The German. 
THe only thing which they ●ymed at, was that the Pastors might be expelled, that so they might succeed them. They teach 
f Zuinglins in Ecclesiast.  (saith Zuinglius) that such cannot preach the Gospel sincerely, which have benefices: but their hope is to have the true Pastors expelled, that they may succeed in their places: and yet they publicly protest, that they seek for no living.  The Englishman. 
There were a thousand of our Ministers that exhibited a supplication to the kings Majesty, and therein craved, that double benificed men should not be suffered to hold, some two, some three benefices with cure.  
This their Petition I greatly misliked not: for I am not ignorant, how that it was decreed by the ancient Fathers assembled at the Council of Chalcedon, that no man should be ordained Minister of two several Churches, in two several places. I will give you thei● words: 
a Con. chaleed ●an. 10.  Let no man be ordained Minister of two several Churches, in two several Cities: but let him remain in that, unto which he was first called. And if for vain glory he shall afterwards go to a greater Congregation, let him immediately be recalled to his first charge, & in that only exercise his ministery. But if one be called to an other charge, let him simply give over the former, and have no interest in the same.  
That which I misliked, was the anabaptistical intent of some of them, who (to my knowledge) set their hands to the said Supplication. I am in good hope (said one of them) that double and triple beneficed men shall now by our means be removed, and that others of our fellowe-Ministers (he meant his factious fellows) shall succeed them. But to leave this particular, did they not seek to take away their good name, as well as their livings?  The German. 
YEs, they cried out against our Ministers in Germany, 
The 28. semblance.  and said, that they did not themselves those things, which they taught unto others.  The Englishman. 
So do our factious Ministers likewise bear the world in hand, that all Ministers besides themselves, 
b See their Petition to the King.  do seek only their own quiet, profit and credit in the world. But what was the cause I pray you, that your Anabaptists did thus revile, backbite, and slander your Ministers?  The German. 
SV●ely, it was only because they opposed themselves against them, and their factious proceed. And this made Zuinglius (being to enter the lists against them) to say thus: 
a Zuinglius de Baptism.  Scio quibus convitijs et quantis furoribus illorum hic me exponam: I know to what reproaches and to how great rages of theirs I make myself subject. And again: Although they marvelously slander us, and daily with new clamours revile and backebite us, yet will I never leave off the defence of the truth, before their contumaey be made known to all men.  The Englishman. 
The self-same cause moved our Sectaries also to revile, backe-bire, and slander our Ministers. I will not name the slanderous reports, the unchristian taunts and contumelies that Martin Marprelate, the Displayer of men in their colours, Doctor Somes Painter, and other black-mouthed Puritans, have laden the faithful Servants of God with. Take a view only of T. C. his Books, and you shall find that he uttereth almost nothing else, but speeches of disdain and reproach. The especial grace he had in writing, was in bitter invectives against a Reverend man, whom he ought to have revereced.  
How often doth he report Master Doctor in one 
b In his first reply.  book, in contempt either of the degree, or of the person? 370. times is the least. And for this very cause doth the said learned 
c Doctor Whit-gift in his preface to the Reader.  Doctor compare the Puritans to your Anabaptists. His words are these: Those that be in the Ecclesiastical estate (and desirous to keep the peace of the Church) I have to admonish, that they be not discouraged from doing their duties, because of the slanderous reports, & unchristian taunts & contumelies, that our unquiet brethren lad them with▪ knowing that it hath been the usual practice of all Sectaries and especially of the Anabaptists. But to proceed, to what end did they thus slander them?  The German. 

The 30. semblance.  THeir end and purpose in slandering and reviling of their brethren, was (
a Zuinglius in Ecclesiast.  as Zuinglius testifieth) to win credit unto themselves, and to discredit those that set themselves against them.  The Englishman. 
At the self same mark have our railing Sectaries aimed. But tell me, why did your Sectaries seek to win credit unto themselves? 
The 3. 1. semblance.   The German. 
WHy? Surely, because (as 
b Bulling. adverse. Anabapt  Bullinger recordeth) they attributed much unto themselves, and pleased themselves very well: but other men they condemned, and therefore their minds were full of pride, and contempt.  The Englishman. 
Your Anabaptists come not near our Sectaries in Pride and contempt: for every young upstart doth think himself to be far wiser, than the gravest man in the land. They did not long 
c When they conferred about the Petition to the kings Majesty.  since, single themselves from their fellow labourers in the Country, and thought them not worthy to be acquainted with their enterprises. None (forsooth) but such as were of their 
d Pares cumparibus facillime congregantur.  own humour were called to their assemblies, or rather conventicles. But what do I mention their contempt of their fellow Parishpriestes? They are so full of seditious singularity, and overweening contempt, as that they contemn the reverend Fathers of our Church, and grudge that▪ Bishops are allowed to be of the upper house of Parliament. The Author of the Humble motion wisheth, that in 
e Humble motion▪ Page. 52.  steed of the Bishops there might be present in the Parliament-house, some wise (they account Bishops fools) and grave Ministers of especial gifts and learning, sorted out of all the land etc.  The German. 

The 32. semblance.  YEa, but out Anabaptists were so arrogant, as that they bragged, that they would defend their cause, not only with words, but with the shedding of their blood also.  The Englishman. 
So have our Sectaries too. Certain of the things (say 
a T. C. Reply page. 5▪ sect. vlt.  they) which we stand upon, are such, as that if every hair of our head were a l●fe, we ought to afford them for the defence of them.  The German. 
Your Sectaries (I see) were very audacious; but yet ours did far surpass them.  The Englishman. 
Wherein I pray you?  The German. 

The 33. semblance.  A Great number of ours assembled themselves together, and set down (as 
b Sleidan Lib. 5.  Sleidan witnesseth) certain things which they required the Princes and Magistrates of the Provinces of Germany to reform. Did your Sectaries ever attempt the like?  The Englishman. 
Yes, to the number of more than a thousand of our Ministers, all groaning as under a common burden of human rites and ceremonies, did not long since humble themselves at his Majesty's feet, to be eased and relieved in this behalf: and set down likewise (as your Anabaptists did) certain points, which they required his Majesty to reform. But to proceed in order, did any of your Ministers join with your Anabaptists that were before conformable to the orders of your Church?  The German. 

The 34. semblance.  YEs, it happened, that one Bernard Rotman (who before had preached against them) 
c vide Sleidan Lib. 10.  fell away from the truth, and began to show himself a favourer of their opnions: which thing gave so great encouragement unto them, as that they challenged the sound Preachers to disputation.  The Englishman. 
It happened also amongst us, that divers Ministers, who (as they 
a In their Petition to the King.  themselves have confessed) had subscribed to the orders of our Church, fell away from their former love, and liking thereof, and joined with the Puritane-faction. But you tell me, that your Anabaptists did challenge your Preachers to dispute with them: was there any public disputation granted them?  The German. 
NO, and for this cause they greatly complained and 
The 35. semblance.  cried out, that the truth was oppressed: that innocent and Godly men which would have had all things reform according to the word of God, could not be heard nor have liberty to speak: and that Master Zuinglius stopped their mouths, and defended his cause, not by the word of God, but by the authority of the Magistrate.  The Englishman. 

b See their Book entitled the State of the Church of England. Page. 38.  So do our Sectaries likewise cry out, that the Clink, the Gatehouse, the White-lyon, and the Fleet, have been our only arguments, whereby we have proved our cause these many years. But I pray you did your Ministers confer with your Anabaptists? did they use no means to reclaim them?  The German. 
Yes, although there was no public disputation granted them, yet did they confer with them from time to time, thereby to reclaim them from their errors.  The Englishman. 
I pray you what kind of arguments used they?  The German. 
Truly, instead of sound and substantial arguments, they used sophistical fallacies.  The Englishman. 
I do think that your Anabaptists do not come near our Puritans in this point.  The German. 
Why do you not think it?  The Englishman. 
Because our Puritans do think, that they have Logic enough, when they have read and conned over Ramus his Logic: and so consequently, they often use fallacies, before ever they be aware. They cannot (forsooth.) endure to read Aristotle's golden Book de sophisticis Elanchis.  The German. 
What? are some of your Students trained up in Peter Ramus?  The Englishman. 
Yes, as it was the wisdom of the 
a Dan. 1. 41.  King of Babylon, to take young Children of Israel, whom he might teach the learning and tongue of Chaldea rather than their old men: so it is the wisdom of some Ramisticall Tutors, to season our green vessels with this liquor of Puritanisme, that they may keep the taste thereof while life remaineth. But not to interrupt your speech, what fallacies used they?  The German. 

The 36. semblance.  THey usually reasoned ab eo quod est secundum quid, ad ●d quod est simpliciter.  The Englishman. 
I must entreat you to express your mind more plainly, that I may understand your meaning.  The German. 
My meaning is this, they usually reasoned after this manner: 
a vide Bulling. adverse. anabap. fol. 9 & 18.  Such and such things were not in the Apostles days: therefore they ought not to be in these days.  The Englishman. 
This fallacy hath been the original and Wellspring of many both old and new schisms: of old, as of them that called themselves Apostolicos, and of the Aerians: of new, as of the Anabaptists, Brownists, Puritans, and others. To insist only in the Puritans, we must (say 
b Admon. 1. Page. 105  they) have surplices devised by Pope Ardian: Interrogatories ministered to the Infant: Godfathers and Godmothers brought in by Higinus: holy Fonts invented by Pope Pius: crossing & such like pieces of popery, which the Church of God in the Apostles time never knew: and therefore they are not to be used.  The German. 

The 37. semblance.  Our 
c Arist. de sophisticis. Elench. Lib. 1. cap. 5.  Anabaptists used an other erroneous kind of reasoning, which Aristotle calleth To en arch aiteisthai: which is, when a man frameth unto himself certain principles of his own devising; grounded neither upon authority, neither yet upon substantial reason, and then upon the same will conclude his purpose.  The Englishman. 
This fallacy hath also been the foundation of many both old and new schisms: of old, as of the Aerians, who forsook the Church, because therein were some things used, which Heretics had abused: of new, as of the Anabaptists, Brownists, Puritans and others.  
To insist again in the Puritans only, they commit this fallacy in using these two false Principles: the one, when they say that to be invented by the late Popes, which was not invented by them: the other, when they say, that nothing may be used in the Church of Christ, which is used in the Church of Rome.  
To begin with the first, they commit this fallacy, when they say that the Surplice was devised by Pope Adrian: for the Godly Fathers of the Church, in the purest estate thereof, have left it in writing, how that the Ministers in their times did usually put on white garments, in the execution of divine Service, and in the celebration of the blessed Sacraments. For proof hereof, I refer you to Saint 
a Chrysost. ad Populum Antiochen Hom. 6.  Chrisostome, to Saint 
b Hieron. Lib. 13. in Ezchiel. 44. et in Lib. 1. adverse. Pelagium cap. 9  Jerome, and to the 
c Concil. Carthaginens. can. 46.  Council of Carthage, at which were present, two hundred fourteen Bishops.  
But what do I mention these times? it was used in the very days of the Apostles, as is apparent by the testimony of Hegesippus, who (as Saint 
d Hierom. de sriptorib. Ecclesiast.  Jerome saith) lived near the Apostles time. His testimony is this: 
e Hegesip. lib. 5. Comment.  when james, who was surnamed justus, went into the Temple, he was 
f Linea non lánea vest in duebatur.  apparelled with a linen, not with  vesture.  
Again, they commit this fallacy, when they say, that Godfathers & Godmothers were brought in by Higinus: for they were in 
g Dyonis. Areopag. lib. 7. de Ecclesiast. Hierarchia.  Dyonis. Areopagita his time, who lived in the time of the Apostles; & they have continued in all pure times since, as appeareth by sundry learned 
h Tertul. adverse. Marcionem lib. 3. Idem de praescrip. adverse hareticos▪ at in lib. de resurrectione carnis. Chrysost. in Psal. 14 ● Cyprian lib. 1. post, 6. August. epist. ad Bonifacium et lib. de Rectitud. Catholica conversationis. Isider. de officij ecclesiast.  writers.  
They do also commit this fallacy, when they say, that crossing in Baptism is a piece of Popery: for it was used in the Church of God, within the compass of three hundred years after Christ: which was long before the Mystery of iniquity bid begin to work: and hath been used in the Church of God ever since.  
For the justifying of what I have said, I refer you to the writings of 
i Tertull. de corona miletis et lib. 3. adversus Marc. ●●.  Tertullian, 
k justin. Martyr ad Orthodox quast. 1. 18.  justine Martyr, 
l Cyprian. epist. ●6. ad Th●barita●o● et in lib. de unitate Ecclesiae.  Cyprian, 
m Orig. serm. 8. in divers. et in psal. 38. h●. 2.  Origen, 
n Gregor. Niz. in oratione adversus eos qui differunt baptismum.  Gregory Nizen, 
o Basil. de spiritis sancto. cap. 27  Basil, 
p Ambros. in l. de ii● qui mist eriis i●itiātur.  Ambrose, 
q Hierom. in Ezech. ●.  jeroni, 
r Rabanus lib 4. de ●●ctitut. clericor. cap. 5  Rabanus & 
s Goulart in Cyprianum.  Goulart. But what do I cite these Fathers? 
t Dyonis. Areopag. de ecclesiast. Hierarch cap. de baptisms.  Dionysius Areopagita, who lived in the Apostles time, maketh mention of the cross in Baptism.  
The Petitioners also committed this fallacy, when they told his Majesty that 
u see their Petition to the King.  the restraint of Marriage is a Popish Cannon: for it is a Cannon of an ancient Provincial 
x Synod. Laodicen. can. 52.  Synod, which was confirmed in the sixth general Synod held in Trullo.  
But to come to their second Principle, they do (I say) commit the forenamed fallacy, in using a second false Principle, viz: when they teach, that we may not use that in our Church, which is used in the Church of Rome. How false this their Principle is, I appeal to 
y Caluin in Exid. cap. 23. vers. 24.  Caluin 
z junius in Academic.  juius, 
a Peter Martyr in an Epistle to H●●per.  Peter Martyr, 
b Gualthe● to N. and M.  Gualther, and all other writers of note.  
Yea, one of their own principle writers over-throweth this their common Principle. These are his express words: 
c T. C. in his Epist. prefixed before his second Book.  If amongst the filth of their herisses, there may be found any good thing (as it were a grain of good corn in a great deal of darnel) that we willingly receive, not as theirs, but as the jews did the holy Ark from the Philistines, whereof they were unjust owners. For herein it is true that is said: the sheep must not lay down her fell, because she seethe the Wolf clothed with it. Yea, it may come to pass, that the Synagogue of Satan, may have some one thing at some time with more convenience, than the true and Catholic Church of Christ. Such was the ceremony of pouring water once only upon the Child in Baptism used with us, and in the most reformed Churches: which in some age was used by those of the Eunomion heresy.  
Lo here, I have wounded their Goliath with his own sword. Let us go on.  The German. 

The 38. semblance.  THe Anabaptists used a third fallacy, which 
a Anst. de sophist. Elench. Lib. 1. cap. 5.  Aristotle calleth to para (to) to me aition, os aition tithenai, that is, the taking of that for the cause of a thing, which is not the cause. For they reasoned (as both 
b Bulling. adverse. Anabap.  Bullinger 
c Zuinglius in Ecclesiast.  & Zuinglius doth report) on this manner: your Ministers cannot teach truly, because they have great livings.  The Englishman. 
Our Puritans have committed the same fault in sundry places of their writings: as namely, when they condemn surplices and other particulars, because (as they say) 
d Admon. pag. 241. sect. 2.  they work discord, and do hinder the preaching of the Gospel, when as the apparel is not the cause thereof; but it is the sinister affection, the contentious mind, the perverse and the rebellious nature of man.  
Again, they use this fallacy, when they say that 
e Admon. pag. 42. sect. 2 3.  Ministers do now run, and ride for benefices, and by unlawful suit and buying, prevent other suitors, because the congregation hath not authority to call Ministers: For it is not the fault of the calling, but of the man.  
And again, the Book of ordering of Ministers and Deacons set forth by this Church of England, requireth, that whosoever is to be admitted into the Ministry, should be so tried both for learning and life, as Saint Paul requireth 1 Timoth. 3. and Titus 1. Now the 
f Admon. pag. 36. sect. 1.  Puritans do ascribe the neglect of this duty to the rule appointed, as if we should call the Law evil, because some Lawyers in their office do swa●●● from it.  
T. C. also played the Sophister when he condemned our prescript form of service or Liturgy, 
g T. C. reply. page. 104. sect. 3.  because (as he said) it maintaineth an unpreaching, an 〈◊〉 and unlafwul ministery, for it is not the prescript form of service that maintaineth unleraned Ministers, no more than it is the word of God that engendereth heresies.  
But what other fallacy committed your Anabaptists?  The German. 

The 39 semblance.  THey committed (as you may read in our German writers) an other fault in reasoning, which Aristotle 
a ●rist▪ de sophisticis elench▪ lib 1. cap. ●.  calleth sophisma para to ●pomenon, that is, when either there is an erroneous consequence, or else none at all. They did licentiously wring▪ or wrest the Scriptures to serve their own ●utne, and quoted many places of Scripture, from which they could infer nothing by necessary consequence.  The Englishman. 
It hath been the trick of Heretics & Schismatics in all ages, to fill the margins of their Books full of places of Scripture, that by this means they might the more easily deceive the simple people, and make them think, their whole Books to be Scripture and nothing else but Scripture; wh●n as in deed they wrung from the Scripture that s●nce, which the words themselves would not bear.  
To insist only in our own Schismatics, they neither care for mayor, minor, nor conclusion, so they say something. Take a view of their margins, & you shall see how vainly they have painted them with shameful abusing of the Scriptures.  
To prove that ministering of interrogatories to Infants is a mocking of God, and a foolish toy▪ they quote, Galat. 
b Admonition 1. page, 192. Sect. 2  6. 7. Be not ye deceived▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●ocked: for whatsoever a man soweth▪ 〈◊〉 shall he reap.  
To prove ●h●● is not in the Godfathers & Godmothers▪ ●perfor●e that which they promise, 
c Ibidem.  they quote Rom. 7. 15. ●allowe not that which I do: for what I would, that I do not: but what I hate that do I. And verse 18. for I know, that in me, that is in my flesh, dwelleeh no good thing: for to will is present with me: but I find no means to perform that which is good. And vers. 21. I find then by the Law, that when I would do good, e●i●● is present with me.  
To prove that we should not receive the Communion kneeling▪ 
a Admon. ●ag 182. sect. 1.  they qu●te, Exod. 20. 5. Thou shalt not bow down to them nor▪ worship them.  
To prove that Ministers are not ●yed to any form of Prayer invented by man, 
b Admon. pag. 77. sect. 3.  they quote, 1. Timo. 1. 2. unto Timothy my natural Son in the faith, grace, mercy, and peac● from God our Father and Christ jesus our Lord.  
To prove that Archbishops etc. and their Offices came out of the Pope's shop, 
c Admon. pag. 209.  they quote▪ Luke 16. 25. But Abraham said, Son remember that thou in thy life time receivedst thy pleasures, and likewise Lazarus pains▪ now therefore is he comforted and thou art tormented.  
To prove that there ought to be an equality of Ministers 
d Amon. 1. page. 124. sect. 1.  they quote in their Margin, 2. Cor. 10. 7. Look ye on things after the appearance? If any trust in himself, that he is Christ's, let him consider this again of himself that as he is Christ's, even s●●re ●e Christ's.  
To prove that Ministers should not wear caps, Gowns, etc.▪ but that they should be known by their voice, learning and Doctrine, 
e Admon. 1. page, 53. sect. vit.▪  they quote▪ Math. 26. 48. Now he that betrayed him, had given them a token, saying: whosoever I shall kiss, that is he, lay hold on him. And verse 73. They that stood by said unto Peter, surely thou art also one of them: for even thy speech be●rayeth thee.  
To prove that tyrannous lordship, (as it pleaseth them to call it) cannot stand with Christ's King▪ doom, 
f In the preface of the Admonition.  they quote, Math. 15. 23. But 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 her not a word. Then came to him his Disciples, ●●d besought him saying: send her away, for the crieth after us. And Luke 16. 15. Then he said unto them, ye are they which justify yourselves before men, but God knoweth your hearts.  
To prove that e●●ry congregation ha● their Deacons, 
a Admon. pag. 114. sect. 2.  they quote john 13. 27. And after the sop▪ Satan entered into him. Then said jesus unto him, That thou dost, do quickly.  
To prove that civil offices, joined to the Ecclesiastical, are against the word of God, 
b Admon. pag. 216. sect. 1.  they quote. Luke. 9 60. 61. And jesus said unto him, let the dead bury the dead etc. And 1. Timoth. 6. 11. But thou o man of God, flee these things, and follow after righteousness, Godliness, faith, love, patience and meekness.  
To prove that no ceremony, order, discipline, or kind of government may be in the Church of God, which the Scripture hath not in particular set down, T. C. 
c T. C. page 41. sect. 1.  quoteth 1, Cor▪ 10. 31. Whether ye eat or drink▪ or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. with these & a thousand such like places, are their Margins pestered.  
Now reduce every one of these into a Syllogistical form, and you shall see many a ridiculous sequel.  The German. 
I see already how ridiculous they are▪  The Englishman. 
Well then, proceed to an other matter.  The German. 

The 40. semblance.  Our A●●●●●tists used an other fallacy, which 
d Arist. de Sophist. Elench. lib. 1. cap. 5.  Aristotle calleth agn●●antou elegchou▪ which is committed, when either the st●te of the question is changed, or when the adversary, i● opposing, doth violate the law of opposition, and disput●th not ad idem. To make this plain, Zuinglius took upon him to defend, that some external things, may be brought into the Church, which are not expressed in the Scriptures▪ and they replied, as if he had said, that some things necessary to salvation, might have been brought into the Church, which are not in the Scriptures▪ For they alleag●d, Math. 1●. 19 To which reply of theirs▪ Zuingli●s thus answereth▪ 
a Zuingliu● d● Baptisms.  I speak not as you say me to speak, I speak only of external and indifferent things, whereof there be many which are neither commanded nor forbidden▪ by any express word of God etc. and again: for this that w● speak of▪ is not necessary unto salvation, but it is external etc.  The Englishman. 

b T. C. pag. 79. sect. vlt.  T. C. objected unto the late Archbishope the self same text for the self same purpose: to which objection of his, the forenamed reverend man answereth with Zuinglius.  
The 
c Admon. pag. 30. sect. 2.  admonitors also to prove that those things only are to be placed in God's Church, which God himself in his word commandeth, do quote, De●t. 4. 2. Ye shall put nothing to the word which I command you, & ●. And Deut. 12. 32. Whatsoever I command you, take heed ye do it: thou shalt put nothing thereto.  
Thus you see, that whereas we defend that matters of order, government and Discipline etc. may be used in the Church, though they be not laid down in the Scriptures: they allege places against us, which only prove that we must not, in matters of salvation add any thing, which may not be gathered from the sacred Scriptures. But what other false arguments used they?  The German. 

The 41. semblance.  THey drew arguments from the authori●●e of the Scripture negatively: for which cause 
d Zuinglius in Elencho.  Zuinglius thus reproveth them: You can find no hole to escape at: for you foolishly reason negatively etc. And again, you make the negative only your foundation.  The Englishman. 

e A testimony divino valet argumentum affirmat●é & negatiuè Keck●em. lib. 3. System. Logic▪ cap. 16.  A testimony drawn from the authority of the Scriptures, holdeth (saith a late learned▪ Logician) both affirmatively and negatively; but this maxim of his must be thus limited: tenet in rebus subst antialibus, non in accidentalibus, that is, an argument drawn from the authority of the Scriptures, in reasoning about things substantial, or matters of salvation and damnation, holdeth both affirmatively and negatively: as for example, God hath not laid down this or that thing in scripture, as a matter of salvation: therefore it is not a matter of salvation. But an argument drawn from the authority of the Scriptures negatively, in reasoning about things accidental or ceremonial, is of no force. And yet our Sectaries have commonly used this kind of reasoning: for which cause our late 
a In his defence of the answer to the Admon. page 590. 591.  reverend Archbishop compared them to your Anabaptists. But to leave this particular, what other sophistry used your Anabaptists?  The German. 
What other? Truly, they imitated the Devil that grand Sophister.  The Englishman. 
The Devil? Wherein I pray you?  The German. 
When the Devil had taken up Christ into the holy City, and had set him on a pinnacle of the Temple, he began to dispute with him, saying: 
b Math. 4▪ 5.  If thou be the son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, that he will give his Angels charge over thee, and with their hands they shall lift thee up, least at any time thou shouldest dash thy foot against a stone.  
Lo, here the Devil took upon him to prove, that Christ could not possibly break his neck, though he should throw himself headlong from the pinnacle of the Temple. The place which he alleged for the proof thereof is that place of th● Psalm, He shall give his Angels 
Psal. 91. 11  charge over thee to keep thee in all thy ways; that is, so long as thou keepest thyself within the ways of thy calling, so long shall my Angels preserve thee.  
Now compare these two places together, and you shall see, that the Devil quoted the Scriptures very Sophistically and subtly: alleging only so much as served for his turn, and leaving out that which made against him, viz▪ to keep thee in all thy ways.  The Englishman. 
And did your Anabaptists the like?  The German. 

The 42. semblance.  YEs, as appeareth by this speech of 
b Zuinglius de Baptism.  Zuinglius: They have not thing else in their mouths, but only this: docete et baptizate, teach and baptise. Behold (say they) the commandment of Christ. In the mean time they do not mark▪ nay indeed they will not mark, that the same thing which they so much cry upon, doctrine, is afterward also set after, when as he saith, docentes eos servare. etc. And again: we have the word of God more clear and plain than yours, which is, teaching you to observe all things which I have commanded you, and th●se words are put after and not before Baptism.  The Englishman. 
Our Admonitors used the same Diabolical sophistry, for to prove that there ought to be a parity of Ministers, 
c Admon. pag● 124 sect. 1.  they do quote 2. Cor. 10, 7. but they conceal the words immediately following, which be these: For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority etc. I should have no shame. Our of these words, which they in their quotation do leave out, Master Caluin gathereth the quite contrary. 
d caluin i● Cor. 10. 7.  It was for modesty (saith he) that he joined himself to their number, whom he did far excel: and yet he would not be so modest, but that he would keep his authority safe▪ therefore he addeth that he spak● less than of right he might have done. For he was not of the common sort of Ministers, but one of the chief among the Apostles: and therefore he saith, if I boast more, I need not be ashamed, for I have a good cause. And again: although the self same office be common to all the Ministers of the word▪ yet there be degrees of honour.  
But what other false quotations of theirs have you observed?  The German. 

The 43. semblance.  Our Anabaptists, for the establishing of their kind of discipline by excommunication, quoted Mat. 18. 15. for which cause Master Caluin reproveth them, saying: 
a Caluin. adverse. Anabapt.  but they are again deceived, in that they consider not, that the Lord speaketh in that place of secret faults: for as for those which are manifest, and give unto the people cause of offence, they are to be corrected by other means then by secret admonitions.  The Englishman. 
So did our late Reverend Archbishop also reprove T. C. for alleging the self same place, to the establishing of his pretended holy discipline. 
b In his defence of the answer to the Admonition. page. ●0.  Where have you learned (saith he) that Christ in the 18. of Matthew, doth appoint any general rule for public offences, such as negligence and contempt in frequenting public prayers, and hearing the word of God is? the very words of Christ, If thy Brother trespass against thee, etc. Do teach that be meaneth not thereof open and known, but of secret and particular sins, etc. To conclude, thus in every page of their Books allege they the Scriptures; not considering that divine Axiom, which a late 
c Keckerman. in lib. 3. System. logici. cap. 16,  Logician hath gathered out of the ancient▪ Fathers, viz: Testimonium Dei alieno sensu acceptum nulla● in probando vi● habet.  
But what other manner of reasoning used they?  The German. 

The 44. semblance.  THey did also usually reason (as 
a Zuinglius in Elencho contra Catabapt.   The Englishman. 
Our Sectaries use the self same vicious and anabaptistical kind of reasoning: for if you confer or dispute with them, either about our Discipline, or about the ceremonies used in our Church, they will immediately reason thus:  

b Argum▪ ● fact● ad i●s.  This or that Discipline is used in reformed Churches, beyond the Seas: ergo we must use the same.  

c Argum, ● non fact● ad n●● ius.  Or thus: this or that ceremony is not used in the church of Geneva: ergo we must not use it.  
This kind of reasoning the Admonitors used in their preface to the Admonition: and it is also now adays used of their Proselytes and followers, who like of nothing well but of that which cometh from Geneva: I will therefore send them to Geneva for an answer. 
d Beza contra Sarrau▪ page 127.  We of Geneva (saith a learned man of the church, speaking of this church of England) do not prescribe to any Church to follow our peculiar example, like unto ignorant men▪ who think nothing well, but that which they do themselves.  
But to leave this their Sophistry, did not your Anabaptists yield to the truth, when they heard it demonstrated unto them, and these their sophisimes confuted?  The German. 

The 45. semblance.  NO, they were (as 
e Bullinger. adverse. Anabap. Fo●. 78. & 244.  Bullinger reporteth) stubborn and wilful, and would not recant, though they were convicted by disputation.  The Englishman. 
Our gracious Sovereign was at his first entry into this Realm, 
f See the Proclamation for the auth●●●z.  entertained & importuned with informations of sundry ministers, complaining of the errors, and imperfections of the church here, as well in matters of Doctrine as of Discipline, And because the importunity of the complainers was great, their affirmations vehement, and the zeal wherewith the same did seem to be accompanied, very specious: His Highness caused a conference to be had at his Honour of Hampton Court, in the month of january last: where before his Majesty and his privy Counsel were assembled, many of the greatest Bishops and Prelates, and many other learned men, as well of those that were conformable to the state of the Church established, as of those which dissented.  
The success of this conference was such, as happeneth to many other things, which move great expectation before they be entered into, but in their 
a Pariuriunt montes, nascetur ridiculus mus.  issut produce small effects.  
For his Highness and his Honourable privy Counsel found mighty and vehement informations supported with so weak and slender proofs, as it appeared unto his Royal Majesty & his Honourable privy Counsel, that there was no cause why any change should be at all in that which was most impugned, the Book of Common prayer, containing the form of the public service of God here established, neither in the Doctrine, which appeared to be sincere, nor in the forms and rites which were justified out of the practice of the primitive Church.  
All which notwithstanding, there are yet some amongst us, who continue still in their forwardness and way wardness; of whom we may say, as Saint Austen did of Caecilian & his confederates. 
b August. Epist. 8.  Noluerunt veritati concedere ne victi quidem. And thus you see that our Sectaries do resemble your Anabaptists in obstinancy.  The German. 

The 46. semblance.  YEa, but our Anabaptists changed sour into sweet, evil into good, vice into virtue. They did (I mean) 
c Vide Bulling adverse. Anabap. Fol. 78. 224.  call their stubbornness and wilfulness by the name of constancy.  The Englishman. 
The Devil that hath ever taught Harlots to  themselves like honest Matrons, and vices to disguise themselves under the habit of virtues, hath also taught our obstinate Sectaries, to call their obstinacy by the name of constancy.  
They will not recant (forsooth) 
a These are their usual speeches.  lest their followers should think them to be inconstant.  
They are now ashamed to subscribe to the Orders, Rites and Ceremonies of our Church, because they have ever hitherto constantly withstood them.  
But to these may we fi●ly say, as S. Austen said to the like in his time: 
b August. Epist 48.  Est confusio adducens peccatum, et est confusio adducens gratiam & gloriam. Confusio adducit pecc●tum cum errubescit quisθ mutare sententiam, ne aut inconstan● putetur, aut diu errasse seipso judice teneatur. Confusio autem adducit gratiam et gloriam, cum erubescit quisque de propria iniquitate, et paenitendo in melius commutatur. Quid ergo ad huc dubitas tenere quod sentis, nisi quia ad it quod non sentis, re●aliquando sensisse confunderis, & dum erubescis corrigere errorem, non erubescis permanere in errore, quod utique potius erubescendum fuit?  The German. 
Your Sectaries did (as it seemeth by your late speeches) lately impugn your Book of Common prayer: I will therefore now in the next place (taking occasion hereby) speak of prayer.  The Englishman. 
What? did they impugn your prescript form of prayer too?  The German. 

The 47. semblance.  YEs, as ye may read in 
c Gastius de error. ●atabap.  Gastius, and in other of our Germain-writers.  The Englishman. 
So do our Sectaries also impugn our prescript form of prayers: for they complain and cry out, that they 
d Amon. page, 77. sest, 3  are tied to a form of prayers invented by man.  The German. 

The 48. semblance.  ALthough our Sectaries disliked our prescript form of prayer, yet they disliked not other forms of prayers, which they had framed to themselves.  The Englishman. 
No more do our Sectaries: for albeit they dislike our form of public service, yet they 
a Se● the Proclamation for the authorizement of an Uniformity.  used (and that since his Majesty's entry into the Realm) certain forms of the public service of God not here allowed.  The German. 
What a bold attempt was that? how dared they use a form of public service, whereunto their Sovereign's authorizement was not first procured? Suppose that his Highness would have allowed their Liturgy, yet what a point of disorder & confusion was it, that the feet should run without the head? It was decreed in the Counsel of 
b Concil. Carthanuns. can. 23.  Carthage, that no man should use the forms of prayer, which he frameth to himself, without conference with the brethren, which are better learned. How dared they then use their form of service, before they had conferred with your learned & obedient Clergy about it?  The Englishman. 
Well, let that pass, and let us come now to some other matter.  The German. 
To what other matter?  The Englishman. 
Having showed their oppugning of your form of public prayer, it remaineth that you relate their oppugning of your administration of the Sacraments.  The German. 
What Method should I observe in speaking of the Sacraments?  The Englishman. 
Whereas there are two Sacraments, viz: Baptism, & the Lords Supper: order requireth that you first speak generally of them both together, and then particularly o● either of them.  The German. 
Well, I am content.  The Englishman. 
Proceed then when you please.  The German. 

The 49. semblance.  Our Anabaptists taught, that the word of God must of necessity be preached, before the administration of the Sacraments: alleging (as 
a Zuinglius d● Baptism.  Zuinglius reporteth) Math. 5. 12. to prove the same.  The Englishman. 
Our 
b Admon. pag. 4●.  Admonitors do in effect say the same thing, and do quote the self-same place of Scripture for the proof thereof. Yea, 
c T. C. reply. page. 125.  T. C. saith flatly, that there must of necessity the word of God be (not read, but) preached unto the people, amongst whom the Sacraments are ministered.  The German. 
And do you hold this doctrine to be erroneous?  The Englishman. 
We hold, that preaching before the administration of Baptism, and the Lords Supper, is not (as T. C. & your Anabaptists would have it) de necessitate Sacramenti, that is, so necessarily joined with the administration of these Sacraments, as that they may not be rightly administered, though the word be not at the same time preached. But to leave this discourse of the Sacraments in general: let us now speak of either of them ●n particular. And first of all, let me request you that you would vouchsafe to relate 
The 50. semblance.  their opinions concerning Baptism.  The German. 
THeir opinions concerning Baptism, were these: 1. they held, that the Minister is, 
d Zuingli. de Baptismo. & Caluin▪ de Insti. Lib. 4. cap. 1● Sect. 16.  de ipsa Baptismi essentia, of the essence of Baptism, that is, that the being of the Sacrament doth so depend upon the Minister, as that it is no Sacrament, if it be not celebrated by a Minister.  The Englishman. 
We hold that the Sacrament (to use Master 
a Caluin. in loco citato.  Caluint words) is not to be esteemed of his hand by whom it is ministered, but as it were of the hand of God, from whom it certainly cometh. And therefore among men if a Lettter be sent, so that the hand and Seal be known, it skilleth not who, or what manner of person carrieth it: even so it is sufficient for us, to know the hand and Seal of the Lord in his Sacraments, by whom soever they be delivered. Hereby is the error of the Donatists confuted, who measured the virtue & worthiness of the Sacrament, by the worthiness of the Minister.  
Hereby also is confuted the error of T. C. who avoucheth that 
b T. C. page, 113.  on this point, whether he be a Minister or no, dependeth not only the dignity, but also the being of the Sacrament.  The German. 

The 51. semblance.  THis their forenamed opinion, made our Anabaptists (as M. Caluin saith) 
c Caluin. Insti. 1. L. 4. cap. 15 Sect. 16.  furiously to urge rebaptisation, denying us to be rightly baptised, because we were baptised by wicked & idolatrous persons in the Pope's Church.  
This also made them to hold, that Baptism ministered by laymen, or by women, was not effectual.  The Englishman. 
Our Sectaries hold, that the Baptism of women, is 
d T. C. page. 113.  no more the holy Sacrament of Baptism, than any other daily or ordinary washing of the Child: & that those which have been baptised by women, aught to be rebaptized: against whose folly (to use M. Caluins' words) we shall 
Ibidem.  sufficiently be defended, if we think that we were baptised, not in the name of any man, but in the name of the Father, of the Son and of the holy Ghost.  
Let not this my speech cause you to think, that women are permitted with us to baptise, as some slanderous Puritans have informed some reverend men beyond the Seas; nor that I go about to prove that women may lawfully baptise. For God forbidden that I should teach them to usurp an office whereunto they be not called: Only I withstand this error, viz: that baptism ministered by no women, is no more the holy Sacrament of Baptism, then daily or ordinary washing: for I hold that although (to use S. Augustine's words) 
a August. lib. 2. contra epist. Parmen. c. 13.  it be usurped without necessity, and is given of any man, to any man: yet that which is given cannot be said not to be given, albeit it may rightly be said, not to be rightly given. 
The 52. Semblance.   The German. 
Our Anabaptists by urging these things before named, brought (as 
b Bucer in his censure upon the come. Book.  Bucer truly reporteth) Baptism into contempt.  The Englishman. 
Our Puritans by their teaching, that Ministers are de ipsa baptismi essentia, of the being of baptism, by their avouching that the word of God must of necessity be preached before the Administration of Baptism; and by their denying the necessity of Baptism, have made men think, that the external signs of this Sacrament is but a bare ceremony, and in no sense necessary to salvation. Thus doth their Doctrine tend to the derogation of this holy Sacrament. Therefore I may say of these our factious Teachers, as 
c Caluin. adverse. Anabapt.  Caluin doth of your Anabaptists: Though they say, that the grace of God towards us, is not diminshed if Infants be not admitted to Baptism: yet I will show that it is much diminished: for we must esteem the grace of God, especially by the declaration thereof, which he maketh both by his word and Sacraments. Seeing therefore that Baptism is now ordained, that the promise of salvation may be sealed in our bodies, as it was in times passed in the people of the jews: Christians should be deprived of a singular consolation, if their children should be secluded from this confirmation, which all the faithful have at all times enjoyed, that they should have the visible sign, whereby the Lord doth show and witness, that he receiveth their children into the fellowship of the Church.  The German. 

The 53. Semblance.  ALthough our Anabaptists taught, that Infants ought not to be baptised: yet before they broached this their heresy, they found fault only with ceremonies used in Baptism, and namely, they said that 
a Bulling. Folly 10▪ 214.  interrogatories ministered to sucking Infants, are mere fooleries.  The Englishman. 
Your Anabaptists then fell from schism, into heresy: for first (as you say) they scorned interrogatories and other ceremonies used in baptizing of Infants, and then afterwards did utterly condemn baptizing of them.  
I pray God that our Puritans do not the like: for they have already requested, that 
b In their petition exhibited to the kings Majesty.  interrogatories ministered to Infants, etc. as superfluous may be taken away. Yea T. C. hath even in scornful terms uttered against interrogatories, joined with the Anabaptists. 
c T. C. page: 134. sect vlt.  This questioning (saith he) can be little better termed, than a very trifling and toying.  
But far otherwise speaketh Master 
d Perkins in his exposition of the creed. fol. 4  Perkins of it: for he saith, that this manner of questioning, was used even from the time of the Apostles.  
I wonder then, with what face our Puritans can term this questioning, trifling and toying: the which was used both in the days of the Apostles, and in the next age after them, as appeareth by the writings of 
e Dyonis, Areopag. de ecclesiast, Hirarch. lib 7.  Dyonisius Areopagita, 
f justin. Mart. 1 Apol.  Iusti●● Martyr, 
g Tertul. de corona militis.  Tertullian, 
h cyprian epist. 6. & 12.  Cyprian, 
i Orig. homil. 5. & 12. in number.  Origen, 
k Basil. despir. sancto cap. 27.  Basil, 
l Ambros. de Sacram. Lib. 1. cap. 2. & lib. 2. cap, 7. & hexam lib. 1. cap. 4.  Ambrose, 
m Chrysost. Homil. ●1. a● populum A●tioch.  Chrisostome, 
n C●s. de incarnate. Lib. ●. cap. 5.  Cassi●nus, 
o August. epist. ad Bonifacium.  Augustine, 
p Gyral. in catech●si mystagogica.  Cyrill, 
q Isidor. de officiis ecclesiast. Lib. 1.  Isidore, 
r Raban, de institut. clericorum, cap. 10.  Rabanus and others.  
But to leave your administration of Baptism, did your Anabaptists find any fault with your celebration of the Lords Supper.  The German. 

The 54. Semblance.  YEs, they cried out (as 
a Bullinger. Fol. 9 18.  Bullinger also relateth) that the Lords supper was not sincerely ministered in Germany, according to the custom of the Apostolic Church.  The Englishman. 
Our Puritans likewise say, that our 
b Admon. 2 Fol. 42 43  Sacraments are wickedly mangled and profaned, yea and wickedly ministered Yea, they cry out with your Anabaptists, 
c Admon. 1 page. 95. sect. 3  that things are not reduced to the Apostolic Church: that in the Apostles time they read not the Nicene creed in their communion, nor fragments of the Epistle and Gospel: 
d Admon. 95● sect. r  that they received it sitting: 
e Admon. page 99  that then it was delivered generally and indefinitely, Take ye end eat ye: not particularly and singularly, Take thou, and eat thou: 
f Admon. page 100  that they ministered the Sacraments plainly, not pompouslie, with Singing, Piping, Surplice and Cope wearing 
g Admon. page 103. 104  that they ministered them simply, as they received it from the Lord: we sinfully, mixed with man's inventions and devices.  
Lo, this is their railing against our sincere administration of the Lords Supper. Did your Sectaries come near them.  The German. 

The 55. Semblance.  Yes, ours said, that we were so far from imitating the Apostles in these things, as that indeed 
h Bulling. fol, 9, 18,  we conformed ourselves to the Papists.  The Englishman. 
So do our Puritans too: for they say, that we have 
i Admon. page 94  an Introite brought in by Pope Celestinus: that 
k Admon. page 97  we minister it with Wafer Cakes, brought in by Pope Alexander▪ being in form, fashion, and substance like their God of the Altar: that we 
l Admon. page 95  receive it kneeling, according to Honorius decree: that 
m Admon. page 101  we borrow from Papists these words: the body of our Lord jesus Christ, which was given for thee, etc. and that we have Gloria in exceisis brought in by Telesphorus. But to proceed on in these matters concerning 
a Admon. page 10. 2.  the Lords Supper, what other opinions held they?  The German. 5 

The 56. Semblance.  THey held that we must not receive the lords supper with wicked men. And for proof thereof they alleged 1. Cor. 5. 11. to which place Master 
b Cal●in. ad. ●●●▪ Anabapt.  Caluin answereth thus: Paul doth forbid to eat with those that live dissolutely. That pertaineth to private conversation, not to the public Communion. But will some say, if it be not lawful for a Chrictian man to keep company with him that is wicked, for corporal meat, much less may be receive with him the lords bread: I answer, that it is in our power, whether we● may be familiarly conversant with the wicked, or no, and therefore ought every one to ●he from them: but it is not so in our power to receive the Communion, or not to receive it, therefore the reason is not all one: we must therefore note, that if the Church do tolerate and suffer an unworthy man, he shall do well, that (knowing him to be such a one) doth abstain from his company as much as he can: so that his doing make no schism or separation in the Church.  The Englishman. 
The 
c Admon. page 102.  Admonitors objected the self same place, to the same end and purpose, that your Anabaptists did, and our late 
d In his defence of the answer to the Admon, Page. 603.  Archbishop answerod them, as Master Caluin answered the Anabaptists. But not to discourse any longer about the administration of the Sacraments, did not your Anabaptists find fault with your solemnisation of Matrimony?  The German. 
Yes they did indeed.  The Englishman, 
What I pray you?  The German. 

The 57 Semblance.  SAint 
a Chrisost. in 1. ad Tim. homil. 9  Chrysostome an ancient Father reporteth, how that in his days those Maidens that kept their virginity, used to wear a Garland upon the day of their marriages, in token that they had overcome the flesh, and the lusts thereof.  
This ceremony (as 
b Zanchius de matrim, cap, 2.  Zanchius truly relateth, we retain still in Germany, and that for these three special cause:, viz. 

1. Because it is (as hath been proved by the testimony of S. Chrysostome) of great antiquity in the Church of God.  
2. Because experience teacheth us, that it doth much good in our Country: for Maidens with us do strive for the Garland: and so consequently, to keep themselves Virgins, lest they should be married without a Garland.  
3. Because it hath for a long time been used in our country: and therefore none (our Sectaries excepted) do speak against it: for (as 
c Ibid,  Zanchius speaketh in our behalf) res externae etc. things external which are not repugnant to the word of God, & which neither are superstitious nor obscene: are to be ebserued according to the custom of the Country wherein we live.    The Englishman. 
The Ring in Matrimony is as ancient a ceremony, as the Garland is: for 
d Tertul, in appol. cap. 6.  Tertullian (who lived almost two hundred years before S. Chrysostome his time) maketh mention of it. Yea, I make no question, but that it was in use in the very days of our Saviour Christ: for Christ himself (as S. 
e jubet annulum reddi, desponsationis in sign et nuptiarum pignus, chrysost. in Homil, de patre et duobus filiis,  Chrysostome hath well observed) alludeth unto it, in that part of the Parable, Luke. 15. 22. then the Father said to his servant, bring forth the bestrobe and put it on him, and put a Ring on his hand.  
All which notwithstanding our Sectaries do not rest satisfied, but do make suit 
b See their petition to the King.  that the Ring in Marriage may be corrected.  
But to leave the solemnisation of Matrimony, what did your Anabaptists teach concerning excommunication?  The German. 
THey taught, that Excommunication is a matter of 
The 58. Semblance.  salvation, and that there is no true Church, where no Excommunication is. This the Anabaptists do urge, saith 
c Bullinger lib. 6. adverse. Anabapt.  Bullinger, that there is no true Church acceptable unto God where there is no Excommunication etc. To these therefore we answer, that the Church of Corinth was a true Church, and so acknowledged of Saint Paul to be 1. Cor. 1. before there was any use of Excommunication in it.  The Englishman. 
Our Puritans do herein (as it seemeth little differ from your Anabaptists: for their chief Doctor 
d T, C. reply. page. 14.  faith, that excommunication, and other censures of the Church, are matters of salvation. But what other faults found your Anabaptists with the Church of Germany?  The German. 

The 59 Semblance.  WHat others truly, they 
e Vide Bulling. fol. 18.  held it to be no Church at all, and said in plain terms, that it was not the true. Church of Christ.  The Englishman. 
So have our Sectaries likewise said, that our Church is not the true Church of Christ. I will acquaint you with their words: 
f Adm. 1. page. 34.  May it please your wisdoms to understand, that we in England are so far off from having a Church reform, according to the prescript of God's word, that as yet we are not come to the outward face of the same. But tell me I pray you, had your Sectaries no cause at all to find fault with your Church? was there no old Popish trash remaining in it? Had you no Relics of superstition amongst you?  The German. 

The 60. Semblance.  No, but they construed indeed every thing in the worst part: for which cause Zuinglius saith thus of them: 
a Zuinglius in ecclesiast.  If they were sent of God, they would have construed in the best part these external things. etc.  The Englishman. 
The like may we say of our Sectaries: for there is scarce any thing in our book of common Prayer, which they have not construed in the worst part.  
To acquaint you with some particulars, they make simple people believe, that we absolve men from their sins; when as indeed we do only in the name of God according to his 
b jehn. 20. 23  word, pronounce to a penitent sinner, that he is absolved, pardoned, and forgiven.  
They do also bear the world in hand, that we use confirmation as a Sacrament, & that we add it to make Baptism perfect; when as they know (I appeal to their own consciences) that confirmation now used in our Church, is not to make Baptism perfect, but partly, to try how the sureties have performed that which was enjoined them, when the children were baptised: and partly, that the children themselves (being once of discretion) may with their own mouth, and with their own consent, openly before the Church, confirm the same: and also promise, that by the Grace of God, they will evermore endeavour themselves faithfully to observe such things, as they by their own confession have assented unto.  
Again, they say, that we 
c Admon. page 195.  make the married ma● to make an Idol of his wife; saying with my body I thee worship: when as our meaning only is, that the man should (as the Apostle biddeth him) 
d 1. Peter. 3. 7.  give honour unto the woman as unto the weaker vessel.  
To conclude, this construing of things in the worst part, was a thing very common at the late conference, as appeareth by these his majesties words: 
e See the Proclamation for the authoriz.  We thought meet●, with the consent of the Bishops and other learned m●n there present, that some small things might rather be explained, then changed; not that the same ●ight not very well have been borne with, by men who would have made reasonable construction of them, etc. But to proceed to some other matters, what other opinions held your Anababtists?  The German. 

The 61. Semblance.  WHy do you thus wearyme with relating their opinions? Master 
d Bullinger. fol. 18.  Bullinger telleth you that there was no stay in them, but that daily they invented new opinions, and did run from error to error.  The Englishman. 
How newfangle likewise our Novellists are, it appeareth by their often correcting, altering, and amending of their platform of Discipline.  
But what need I produce any arguments to prove this? T. C. and his adherents, in one of their examinations in the star-chamber, did confess and avouch it upon their oaths, 
e See the Survey of pretended holy discipline.  that there were then (after many meetings which they had) some things in their draft of discipline, wherein they were not resolved. And I verily persuade myself, that if our obstinate Ministers were pressed upon their oaths, they would (notwithstanding all their ploddings together) acknowledge that they are not resolved in all points what they would have.  
Yea, this their affectation of novelty was such, as that it moved the King's Majesty, to give this admonition to all his Subjects: 
f See the proclamation before alleged.  We do admonish all men, that hereafter they shall not expect nor attempt any further alteration in the common and public form of God's service, from this which is now established: for that neither will we give way to any to presume, that our judgement having determined in a matter of this weight, shall be swayed to alteration by the frivolous suggestions of any light spirits: neither are we ignorant of the inconveniences that do arise in government, by admitting innovation in things once settled by mature deliberation: and how necessary it is to use constancy in the upholding of the public determinations of States: for that such is the unquietness and unsteadfastness of some dispositions, affecting every year new forms of things, as if they should, be followed in their inconstancy, would make all actions of states ridiculous and contemptible. etc.  
And thus you see, how that our Sectaries do affect new forms of things, invent new opinions, & run from error to error, as your Anabaptists did.  
But what do you conjecture to be the cause, that these your Sectaries did thus run from one new opinion to an other, & were not of a more stayed & settled judgement?  The German. 

The 62. semblance.  Truly, it was (as I conjecture) because they contemned & disdained the old fathers of the church, and thought it the losing of good hours, to peruse their writings.  The Englishman. 
It grieveth me to see how lightly our Sectaries also esteem of the classical & principal Doctors of the church (next the Apostles of Christ, and their next succeeders) whom they ought to 
a Ego illos ●●●eror & ta●●● nominibus  reverence, & to do a kind of homage to their very names, and to acknowledge that of them all, which was said of 
b Sencea. lib. 8. Epist. 65  two of them, viz: that they are even the hammers of Heretics, & the eyes of the world.  The German. 
Why? how do they account of these Stars and Ornaments of learning?  The Englishman. 
How lightly they account of them, the very worde● of T. C. do make proof: who (when he was urged with the testimonies of Ignatius, Tertullian, Cyprian, Jerome, Augustine, ●nd others) cried out, that 
c T. C. lib. 1 pag. 154  truth was measured by the crooked yard of time, Yea, he termeth the seeking into the Father's writings 
d T. C. lib. 1: page 114.  araking in Ditches.  The German. 
And do they make the same reckoning too of ancient Counsels and Synods?  The Englishman. 

The 63. semblance.  YEs, the Council of Nice, of Neosesarea, of Gangrene, and of Orleans, being quoted to prove the authority of the Church in things indifferent: T. C. complained, 
T. C. Lib, 1 pag. 29. 32  that he was pestered with such a kind of authority, instead of Isai, jeremy. S. Paul, and S. Peter.  The German. 
It is likely that they esteemed very lightly of the writings of heathen writers, seeing that they made so small recconing of ancient Counsels and Synods.  The Englishman. 
True, & did your Sectaries make any greater account of them?  The German. 
Ours? no, there was one john Matthew their principal prophet, that commanded (as Sleidan testifieth) every 
Sleidan lib, 10,  one of his followers, to bring all his books whatsoever, (saving the Bible) to be publicly burned, which was accordingly performed.  The Englishman. 
Belike than they were of opinion, that all Gentile learning should be abandoned from the lips of Christians.  The German. 

The 64. semblance.  YEs, and especially from the lips of Preachers.  The Englishman. 
Saint Augustine writing against Petilian, telleth us, 
Aug: lib▪ 3. contra Petilian cap. 16.  that the said Petilian his aduersatie did accuse him for a Logician, and did bring Logic itself to her try all before the people, as the mistress of forgery and lying▪ and because he showed some rhetoric, did note him by the name of Tertullus the Orator, and charged him with the damnable wit of Carneades the Academic. Your Anabaptists (I see) were of Petilian his humour.  The German. 
True, and are not your Sectaries so too?  The Englishman. 
Yes, My heart (saith one of them, in a certain Schismatical 
a Intittled, the State of the church of England. pag, 25  Book that is very rife amongst our Puritan) waxeth cold, & my flesh trembleth to hear you say, that a Preacher should confirm his matter out of the Fathers and humane writers: doth preaching consist in quoting of Doctors, & alleging of Poets & Philosophers? In what part of his commission hath a Minister warrant so to do?  The German. 
In what part! doth not S. Paul himself allege 
b Act▪ 17. 28  Aratus, 
c 1, cor, 15, 33  Menander, & 
d Tit, 1, 12  Epimenides, who were all heathen Poets? Is not this a sufficient warrant for a Minister? But I see the reason, why both your Sectaries and ours, do take such vehement exceptions against Poets & Philosophers.  The Englishman. 
What is the reason?  The German. 

The 65. semblance.  surely, as 
e Vide August: lib. 3. contra P●til cap. 16  Petilian dispraised Logic & Rhetoric, because he himself was ignorant in those arts: so do our Sectaries contemn all Gentile learning, and blame men that make use of it, because they themselves are ignorant therein.  The Englishman. 
Is this the cause think you?  The German. 
Yes, doubtless: for (as 
f Greg, Nizianz. in M●n●d.  Nazianzene saith) non ulla dispicienda disciplina cognitio, cum de genere bonorum scientia sit omnis etc. There is ●ot any knowledge of learning to be despised, seeing that all science whatsoever, is in the nature and kind of good things. Rather those that 
g Ipsam spermentes rusti●os et plane ignaves existimare de be●●●.  despise it, we must repute clownish and fluggish altogether, who would be glad that all men were ignorant, that their own ignorance lying in the common heap might not be espied.  The Englishman. 
Well, than they are like the Fox that despiseth the Grapes, which himself cannot reach.  The German. 
Nay, they are rather like that old Fox, 
a V●lpec●l● (c●●●● amissa) reliquis ●●lp●bus calli●▪ p●rsuasit, ut similiter et ipsa ca●das resecarent, ●● sola ●●rpis et defor●●● in su● gener● vider●●●r, Melanct.  who having had a mischance and lost his tail, went strait way to the Beasts of the same kind, and fell to persuade them every one to cut of his tail; pleading the weightiness and combersomnes of it, with many the like circumstances: but the matter coming thoroughly to be examined and scanned, it was found, that the crafty Fox did it▪ only to cover his own deformity, which (if to be without tails had once become a fashion) should never have been espied.  
But to speak in earnest, there were other reasons besides this, why our Sectaries despise all Gentile and Profane learning.  The Englishman. 
What other?  The German. 
IT appeareth by the preface of Luther upon the Epistle 
The 66. semblance.  to the Galathians, that our anabaptists condemned the graces and works of God, for the in digni●ie and unworthiness of the persons and subjects in whom they were found.  The Englishman. 
So do our Puritans likewise contemn the writings of the Gentiles, because the authors thereof were wicked, profane, and superstitious Idolaters. I speak what I know to be the opinion of some of them.  The German. 
To such may you fitly say, as Jerome said to Ruffinus in his time, volo sis api argumentos● similis. etc. I would have thee like the witty discoursing Bee, which from a nettle gathereth honey. But let us leave this particular, and proceed in order to some other matter.  The Englishman. 
No▪ before I leave this particular, let me show you how greatly they esteem of their own writers.  The German. 

The 67. semblance.  WHat? do they prefer them (as our Anabaptists did theirs) before the ancient fathers who were the very pillars of Religion & Christianity in their days?  The Englishman. 
Yes, & before all the best late writers too. For the justifying of wha● I have said, I will acquaint you with the express words of some of T. C. his proselytes and followers. I thank God (quoth one 
b F. to 1, A●●● Dom. 1586  of them) I have satisfied in part my longing with T. C. of whom I think, at she● did of Solomon. We want Books 
c F▪ to G, A●●● Dom. ●58●  (said an other) whereby we may come to the knowledge of the truth, I mean T. C his Books. Yea T. C. saith the DISPLAYER OF MEN IN THEIR COLOURS) is a man as well able to judge, as all the Lord Bishops in Christendom●.  

Henserui regnant;  
Famuli dominantur;   

Asselli  
Ornantur phaleris:  
de phalarantur equi.   
But to proceed, howsoever his Proselytes account of his Books, it is most true, that they are Puritan popish, and tha● they have indeed been 
d Viru● eccles. ●t r●i●.  the very poison of Church and Commonwealth.  
Not to conceal Doctor Whitaker his judgement touching this point: Quem C●rtwrightus (saith he, speaking of his second reply) ●●per emisit libellum, 〈◊〉 magnam partem perlegi. Ne vivamsi quid unquam viderim dissolutius, ac paene puerilius. Verborun sati● ille quidem lautam ac novam supellectilem habet, rerum omnino, nullam quantum ●go judicare poss●m. Deinde non modo per●ersse de Principis in rebus s●cris atque ecclesiasticis authoritate sentit: sed in papistar● etiam castra transfugit, a quibus tamen videri vult idi● capitali dissidere. Ver●mne in hac causa ferendus, et alijs etiam in partibus tela a papistis m●t●atur▪ Denique (ut d● Ambrosi● dixit Hi●ronim●s) verbis ●●dit plan●que indignus est, qui a quop▪ Turrian docto confutetur. That is, I have read over a great part of that Book which Cart wright hath lately published. I pray God I live not, if ever I sa●● any thing more dissolute and almost more childish. He hath ingreat store of plausible words, but no substance as far as I can judge. Furthermore, he thinketh not only perversely of the Prince's authority in ecclesiastical affairs: but he flieth into the very tents of the Papists, from whom he would be thought to dissent with a deadly ha●red. But he is not to be suffered in▪ this cause, and in other parts he borroweth weapons from the Papists. To conclude (as Ie●ome said of Ambrose) he playeth with words, and is flatly unworthy to be confuted of any learned man.  
Lo, this is the judgement which this learned & judicious divine gave of T. C. his books, which many now a days do make as great account of as of Oracles.  
And thus much concerning our Puritan-Popish teachers: now let us come to their Proselytes & followers.  The German. 
To their Proselytes? what! have they any Proselytes?  The Englishman. 
Yes, they have compassed sea and land, & have made many their Proselytes, & the children of error, as deeply as themselves.  The German. 
And indeed so did our Anabaptists too.  The Englishman. 
Of what sort I pray you, were their Proselytes and followers?  The German. 

The 6●. semblance.  OF what▪ sort? Master Bullinger telleth you, that such of the vulgar sort a● were of contentious natures▪ 
Bullinger adder's. ●nab●p.  joined with them▪ and commended their doings. Amongst the rest, there was one john of Leyden, a Town in Holland (having none other name, by reason of his ignobility, being but a Cobbler by his occupation) who came into the City of Munster, which is the principal City of Westphalia a Povince in Germany, and there became an egregious Anabaptist.  The Englishman. 
What! were your chief Cities pestered with Anabaptists?  The German. 

The 69. semblance.  YEs, for our Anabaptists went not to preach, in such places where the Gospel was not planted; but they insinuated themselves into those places, wherein the Gospel had been diligently preached: and where godly and quiet men were, there they made a stir, raised up factions, and bred discord, as you may read at large in our German writers.  The Englishman. 
And to tell you the truth, so have our Sectaries likewise insinuated themselves into those places, where the Gospel, without them, and before them was planted: and they have disquieted the Church, and sown the seed of contention even▪ in our chief Cities, where Godly and quiet men were, before they broached their opinions amongst them.  The German. 
But you tell me not of what sort their proselytes ●re.  The Englishman. 
Truly, they are (for the greatest part of them) souters, Cobblers, and such like mean fellows as your john of Leyden was.  The German. 
And I pray you, what were the qualities and conditions of these fellows?  The Englishman. 

The 70. s●blance.  surely, according to that Image of the world which I have seen pictured, with the feet upwards, ●o nor that all things are turned upside down, do their Prosolites and followers behave themselves.  
The very Sow●er and Cobbler now a days, though his art goeth not above the latchet, will find fault with the thigh of the picture.  
The Butcher though his skill only be in opening an Ox, will take upon him to cut the Anatomy of a man.  
The Tailor, though his art be in shaping of garments, will teach Ministers how to shape their Sermons to suit his affections.  
The Cook, though all his learning be in the Larderhouse, and in the Kitchen, yet will he be saucing the orders, rites, and ceremonies of the Church, and speak very saucily against them.  
The Smith, though all his learning be in his forge, yet 〈◊〉 he adventure to blow the coals of contention in the Church, and to forge new opinions upon the Anvil of error.  
The Farriour, whose greatest skill is in giving a drench to a diseased horse, will take upon him to minister Physic to a sick patiented.  
The Harper, if he be not harping upon this string, (the government of the church) his Harp is quite out of tune.  

a 1. Samuel. 6.  The men of Bethshemesh will pry into the Ark of God though they die for it.  

b 2. Samuel. ●  Vzza will put his hand to hold up the said Ark, though he overthrow himself by it.  

c Le●iticus. 10.  Nadab and Abih● will offer strange fire, thought they burn in the flames of it.  

d Numb. 16  Korah and his complices, will challenge unto themselves: the calling and office of Moses: though the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up for it.  

e Act. 19  The Exorcists will take upon them to conjure evil spirits in the name of jesus, though they be overcome by the same spirits.  

f Mark●. 14.  Peter will go● beyond the limits of his calling, and warm himself at the High priests fire; though he be brought to deny his Master by it.  

1. judges▪ 1●  Samson also will go● beyond the Precincts of his calling, and break the vow of Nazaret, though he lose his strength for it.  

b 1. Io●ab. 1.  And jonas will shake of his calling too, though he be shaken, and tossed in a tempest, and cast out of the Ship for it.  
O that our lay-Puritanes, that meddle so much in other men's callings, & so little in their own, would learn by these fearful examples, how dangerous a thing it is to go beyond the limits & precincts, of their callings! God will surely require of them, for doing more than they should, as he did of the jews for doing less 
c Isa●. 1. 12  Who required this of your hands, 
d 1. Cor. 12. 4. 5. 6.  there are diversities of gifts & diversities of operations, though the 
e Ibid.  spirit be but one, & God the same that worketh all in all. 
f 1. Cor. 12. 29 30  Are all Aposlles? are all Prophets? are all teachers? are all doers of miracles? have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 
g Rom. 12. 4.  We have many members in one body, and all members have one office, 
h 1. Cor. 12. 17  If the whole body were an eye: wher● were the hearing? or if the whole were an ear, where were the smelling 
i Rom. 2. 6. 7, ●  Seeing then that we have gifts which are divers, according to grace that is given unto us, whether we have prophesy let us prophecy according to the proportion of faith ●or whether an Office, let us wait on the Office; he that teacheth on teaching; he that exhorteth on exhortation.  
And thus I conclude this point; beseeching God to give them grace to contain themselves within the limits & lists of their own duty. Now let me entreat you that if you have observed the like in your Sectaries, you would vouchsafe to relate it.  The German. 
Yes, 
k Sleidan. ●. ●.  Sleidan telleth you that our common people too did not keep themselves within the compass of their callings, but were very hot in seeking of reformation, and claimed interest in Church-matters.  The Englishman. 
But what other bad qualities had they?  The German. 

The 71, semblance.  THey were so wedded to their own opinions, as that they would not endure to hear either contradiction or argument to the contrary. Yea john of L●yden, 
a Vide Sleidan lib. 10.  when he heard one of the Preachers of M●nster begin to speak against his opinions, he run strait out of the place, where the Preacher was, & would not vouclisafe to hear what might be said against him.  The Englishman. 
These eyes have seen many of the Puritan-faction imitate your john of Leyden; or rather the deaf Adder, which as the Psalmist saith) stoppeth his ●are at the voice of the Charmer, charm he never so wisely.  
They have seen (I say) many run out of the Church when as their Preacher did but glance at the late factious proceed of factious Ministers: thinking it belike a tempting of God, to hear what might be said against them. God Almighty mollify their prejudicial & obstinate minds, that they may be content first to try all things: and then to hold fast that which is good, as the Apostle admonisheth them.  The German. 
Notwithstanding all this, our Sectaries are far worse than yours.  The Englishman. 
Why?  The German. 

b Bullinger. ●ol. 77.  Ours would not communicate with them at all, that were not of their sect.  The Englishman. 
What! neither in the hearing of the word of God, nor in receiving of the Lords Supper?  The German. 
YEa, in neither of them both. 
The 72. semblance.   The Englishman. 
No more will some of our Lay-Puritanes. To insist in some particulars, there was one 
a See the conspi●. page. 4.  Hacket of Oundell in Northamptonshire, who could not endure to frequent the Sermons which M. Ray the Minister of that Town did preach, because he was conformable to the orders of the Church; but went to a place called Stoake, where the Minister fitted his humour betters & yet, there would not go into the church, until he had heard the Psalm begun before the Sermon, for fear he should have been polluted with their prayers. And there are yet many also now a days, who (to my knowledge) will not vouchsafe to hear their own preachers, but will go fix or seven miles to hear one of their new fangle faction.  
Yea, some of them, (to my knowledge) have refused to receive the Lords Supper at the hands of their own Minister, because he would not suffer them to receive it sitting; but went to an other 
b Q.  Minister that ministered it according to their own liking.  The German. 

The 73. semblance.  YEa, but I hope they did not account all men wicked that were not of their sect, as our Anabaptists 
c Bullinger. Fol. 1.  did.  The Englishman. 
Yes, our Puritans contemn and despise all those that be not of their faction as polluted, and not worthy to be saluted or kept company with: and therefore some of them (as our late 
d in his defenet of the Answer to the Ad●o●.  Archbishop testifieth) meeting their old acquaintance being Godly Preachers, have not only refused to salute them, but spit in their faces, wishing the plagne of God to light upon them, and saying that they were da●●ed, and that God had taken his spirit from them: and all this because they did were asquare cap.  
But what other lewd qualities have you observed in your Anabaptists?  The German. 

The 74. semblance.  WHat other? it is not unknown to any that hath perused the writings of Germain-writers, how that the Anabaptists have verified the old proverb, in straining at Gnats; and swallowing down Camels.  The Englishman. 
And it is not unknown to all the orders and companies of this Realm, how that our Puritans have verified the same proverb. For albeit their throats be sometimes so straight as that they will not swallow down a Gnat, yet at other times they are so wide as that they will swallow down a Camel. But not to insist in a matter so manifest. What other vile qualities had they?  The German. 

The 75. semblance.  Truly this, they did so slander and revile our Ministers, as that they ought (to use 
a Zuinglius in Ecclesiast.  Zuinglius his words) to be suspected & hated of all Godly men, even for their slanderous and cursed speaking.  The Englishman. 
But your Anabaptists come not near our lay-Puritanes, in abusing of their Ministers.  The German. 
No!  The Englishman. 
No verily: for they have imitated the unbelieving jews in the 
b Act. 17. 5  Acts, who took unto them a company of wandering companions, such as stood idle in the marketplace, wicked men, and gathered a multitude, and made an uproar in the whole City, and came to the house of jason, to fetch out Paul and Silas.  The Germainen. 
What! have there been any so favyce with God's Messengers?  The Englishman. 
Yes, there are some, who (to my knowledge) did not long since take unto themselves, a company of idle fellow●s, such as the unbelieving jews did, and gathered a multitude of their factious ●rue, and came in●o the v●rye house of God, there to check and control their Minister, because he had often preached against their factious proceed, and other their impieties.  
But not to insist only in their reviling of Ministers, have they any thing else in their mouths, but contumelious▪ slanders, defamations, opprobrious detractions, supercilious, insolent and uncharitable accusations of all states and conditions of men that have any way hindered their pretended reformation?  
When I consider this, I find that the Epigram doth well beseem them, which Cornelius Agrippa wrote of himself.  

Inter divos nullos non carpit Momus;  
Inter heroas monstr a quaeque insectatur Hercules;  
Inter d●mones rex Herebi Pluton▪  
Irascitur omnibus umbris;  
Inter Philosophos ridet omnia Democritus;  
Contra deflet cuncta Hera●litus;  
Nefcit quaeque Pyrhias;  
E● soire sepuiat omnia Aristoteles;  
Contemnit cuncta Diogenes:  
Nullus hic parcit. Agrippa,  
Contemnit, scit, ●escit, flet, ridet, irascit●r,  
I●sectatur, carpit omnia,   The German. 
But to interrupt you, and to stay you from uttering the last ve●se of that epigram: I will acquaint you with ●●● common vice of our Anabaptists.  The Englishman. 
What is that I pray you?  The German. 
Truly this, albeit they speak much of mortification, 
The 76. semblance.  yet were they greatly given to lustful carnality and uncleanness. And for further proof hereof, I refer you to Stanhusius his Book of Meteors, where he hath these words: 
a Stanhusius. Lib. 2. de meteor, tracta●, de C●●etis.  Anabaptiste, omni sublat● disciplina et honestate, omnia libidinis genera exe●e●●runt. Now what say you to this matter? do your Puritans herein resemble your Anabaptist●?  The Englishman. 
I say of four Puritans, as Saint Paul said of the Corinthians: 
b 1. Cor. 5. 1  It is heard certainly that there is for●ication among them.  
But what need I go by hearsay? I have seen the man that laid Hagar in his bosom, because Sara was barren. Yea, I will not acquaint you with the tenth part of what I know, and am able to justify.  
Let us see what other thing you have observed in your Anabaptists?  The German. 

The 77. semblance.  I Have observed, that albeit they were thus vicious, yet they usually objected against our German▪ Ministers that 
c Vide Bulling Lib. 1. adverse. Anabap●.  in their congregation there was a manifest amendment of life, but in ours none at all.  The Englishman. 
The preaching of the word of God, (praised be his holy name) hath been effectual in England, and hath brought multitudes from superstition, and palpable darkness, to the true knowledge of god, etc. yet notwithstanding some of our 
a ●, C. Reply. page 34, & 47  Sectaries have used the self ●●me objection against our Church. But to leave this particular, how did they cloak these their vices?  The German. 

The 78. semblance.  Truly, they did bear the world in hand, as 
a Zuinglius in Ecclesiast.  Zuinglius testifieth, that whatsoever they did, they did it being thereunto moved by the spirit.  The Englishman. 
So did one of our Sectaries in a lett●● to Ha●k●●, wherein he used these speeches: 
b See the Conspir. page. 23.  If his most holy spirit direct you to come, come: if not▪ stay. And again, the working of his most holy spirit in m● since your departure, is mighty & great: yea, ●● zeal of spirit 〈◊〉 like fire.  
But not to weary ou● selves any longer, let v● here (though abruptly) break off this our conference.  The German. 
No, give me leave I pray▪ you to relate the abominable opinions, detestable qualities▪ and execrable treacheries of some of our Anabaptists, and then we will conclude.  The Englishman. 
Well, proceed.  The German. 

The 79. semblance.  THe●e was one Th●m●● Mu●cer in germany, who taught, that God even in these days doth reveal his will by dreams, visions and revelations 
c Ipseme● mihi coram pr●misit etc. Sl●●dan C●●. ●.  God (saith he) hath warranted ●e face to face, he that cannot lie hath commanded me, to attempt the change by these means, even by killing the Magistrates.  
And Phifer his lewd companion, did but dream in the night time, of the kill of many Mice, & presently expounded his dream of murdering the Nobles. Yea, at Sangall●● a Town in Switherland, one of our Anabaptists, did (as 
d Suriu● in comment.  S●●ius reporteth) cut off the head of his own natural Brother, the Parents to them both standing by And the reason which he had for doing it, wa● (forsooth) because it was commanded him from above. Now tell me, was there ever any such fellows in England?  Englishman. 
Yes, there was one 
a See the consp●●. Page. 42.  Hacket that told the people that God had revealed his will unto him extraordinarily; and that he had received an immediate calling from God, to reform the Church, and to call the whole world to repentance.  
There was also a 
b Conspir. pag 14.  Puritan preacher, that informed the said Hacket, that God doth, & will from time to time, raise up extraordinary works and helpers to his Church, as Apostles, Evang elist●, and Prophets, where need requireth. And for the proof of this his opinion, he produced the example of one that cryedup and down the streets in jerusalem before it was besieged.  The German. 
Yea, but was this Hacket a Puritan? your Puritans happily will not acknowledge him to be one of their side.  The Englishman. 
Yes, that he was a Puritan, it may appear by these his Puritan tricks, viz▪ 

1. 
c For the proof of all these particulars following, I refer you to a Book extant, entitled the conspiracy of pretended reformation page. 4. 1● 14. 34. 3●.  He followed such Preachers, at did fit his humour, and would not hear Master Ray the Preacher of the Townew here he dwelled.  
2. He burned in desire of reforming the Church and Commonwealth▪  
3. He had some of the brethren to fast with him, before he attempted his reformation.  
4. He purposed to plant in every congregation, an clder ship or consistone of Doctors, Pastor's, Lay-elders, and widows.  
5 He railed on the Bishops, and on all other that withstood this his reformation.    
But what need I stand to prove this? who knoweth not, how that he and his two counterfeit Prophets, the self-same day they arose in Cheapside, told the said Puritan-preacher in the morning, that reformation and the Lords discipline, should then forthwith he established? They did also charge him to put all Christians in comfort, that they should shortly see a joyful alteration in the state of the Church-government.  
Thus you see, how that we have confitentemreum, the confession of his own lips against himself, so that there needs no more to do; as David spoke to the young man that brought news of the death of Saul, Os tuum contra te loqutum est: thine own mouth hath spoken against thee.  The German. 
Yea, but was that Preacher a Puritan, that avouched extraordinary callings, by the example of him that cried up and down the streets of Jerusalem, before it was besieged?  The Englishman. 
Yes, for he was 
d See the conspir. pag. 2  Vicar of S●dbergo and Dent in the Northern parts; and for his intolerable insolencies, and contempt of the government of the Church, was both deprived of that his Benefice, and deposed from the ministery, by the authority of our late Sovereign's Commission for causes Ecclesiastical.  
But to proceed in order, did there ever arise up amongst the Anabaptists any such like Prophets as these were?  The German. 
Yes, in the month of july; Anno Dom. 1533. a new Prophet (being a Goldsmith by his trade) arose up amongst them: who called the multitude together into the marketplace, and signified unto them, that it was the will of God, that john of L●yden should be Emperor of all the Earth; and that he should destroy all Princes and Potentates, but spare the common people that loved sincerity.  The Englishman. 
As your john of Leyden was Proclaimed Emperor by the Goldesmith Anno Dom. 1533. so was 
a See the conspir. Page. 66.  Hacket proclaimed King by his counterfeit Prophets, the 33. year of the Reign of our late Sovereign Queen of famous memory. But proceed on I pray you in this matter.  The German. 
IN the said year of our Lord, about the end of December, 
The 81. semblance.  one of our Anabaptists, pretending himself to be divinely inspired, and ravished in spirit, did go through the street of the City of Munster crying; Repent, repent, and be again baptized, or else the judgement and wrath of God will quickly or suddenly fall upon you.  The Englishman. 
So in the said year of our late Queen's reign, upon the 16. of july in the morning, did 
b See the consp. pag. 55. 56. & the Annals of England, collected by john Stowe, pag. 1288.  Hackets said Prophets go from one Walkers house near unto Broken-Wharfe in London, and going from thence by Watlingstreete & Olde-Change, toward Cheapside, cried out and said: Christ jesus is come with his Fan in his hand, to judge the earth: Repent England repent, repent.  
But now to conclude this whole discourse, what other outrageous villainy committed your Anabaptists?  The German. 

The 82. semblance.  Truly, they joined their forces together, and made an insurrection, as you may read in Sleidan and in other of our German writers.  The Englishman. 
So did Hacket likewise commit Treason against our late Queen's Majesty, in the three and thirtieth year of her Reign: and for the same was arraigned on the 26. of july immediately following, and 
c See the Annals of England pag. 1289  by tw● several inditements found guilty: as to have uttered and spoken divers most false & traitorous words against her Majesty, to have razed and defaced her majesties Arms, as also a certain Picture of the Queen's Majesty, and did malicionsly and traitorously, thrust an iron instrument into that part of the said Picture that did represent the Breast and Heart of the Queen's Majesty.  
God Almightle, who preserved her Majesty from the Traitorous stratagems of all her enemies, and gathered her to her Fathers in peace, Preserve him likewise that sitteth on her Throne after her: and when he is gathered to his Fathers, (the woe whereof fall upon an other age) let him go to rest with greater tokens of his favour, than ever to fall into the hands of such anabaptistical Puritans, o● any other Traitorous enemies.  The German. 
Even so Lord jesus: Amen, Amen▪   

Puritano-papismus: OR A Discovery of Puritan-papisme: made by way of Dialogue or conference, between a Protestant and a Puritan.  

The 1. Dialogue. Wherein is plainly showed, that the Puritans have in sundry things joined with the pharisees, apostolics, Aerians, Pepuzians, Petrobrusians, Florinians, Cerinthians, Nazarens, Beguardines, Ebionites, Catobabdites, Catharists, Enthusiasts, Donatists, jovianists, Brownists and Papists.  The Protestant. 
COME neighbour, let us shake hands and be friends.  The Puritan. 
Shake hands with a Formalist?  The Protestant. 
Why not with a Formalist? you will not stick to shake hands with a Papist.  The Puritan. 
Do we shake hands with the Papists? 
c These are T. C. his words, pag. 7. sect. S●lt▪  Whilst you compare us to the Anabaptists, some friend of yours might think that you said truly, because such, always seeking dark and solitary places, might happily have some favourers which are not known. But when you join us with the Papists, which are commonly known to all men, whose Doctrine we impugn as well as you, whose marks and badges we can less away with than you, hose company we fly more than you, whose punishment we have called for more than you for your part have done: and therefore are condemned of them as cruel, when you often times carry away in the name of mildness and moderation, which for sooth know no commandment in the Scriptures to put Heretics to death: when I say, you join us thus with the Papist, you do not only lose your credit, in these untrue surmises (wherein I trust with the indifferent reader, you never had any) but you make all other things suspected, which you affirm, so that you give men occasion to take up the common proverb against you, I WILL TRVSTE YOU NO FURTHER THAN I SEE YOU.  The Protestant. 
Pilate and Herod were at great odds about private matters between themselves, but when they had to deal with Christ, they could then become friends, & conjoin together for his destruction: the pharisees and Saducees were of contrary sects, yet were they both enemies to Christ & his Doctrine.  
The Anabaptists agreed not with the Papists, yet they both sought to deface the church of Christ, & did clean together in their devices against Christ, as the scales of Leviathan: even so you, though ye be at enmity with the papists; though you impugn their Doctrine; though ye cannot away with their marks and badges; though ye fly their company; though ye call for their punishment; yet, in defacing & depraving of this Church of England, you fully join with them against us. So that as there was a day, when Herod and Pilate were made friends, so there is (I see) a day when Papists & Puritans are made friends. And for this cause did our reverend brethren, of the University of Oxford 
a In their Epist. dedicatory before their answer to the Petition.  observed this seavenfolde semblance betwixt you and the Papists. 

1. You both entitle yourselves, the kings afflicted subjects, and above all other, his devoted Servants.  
2. You both pretend an enforcement of a speedy recourse to his Majesty, for a present redress and reformation.  
3. You both complain, of being overwhelmed with enduring persecution through loss of living and liberty.  
4. You both ground your Doctrine and Discipline upon the sacred Text of God's word and Gospel.  
5. You both condemn the obedience of us Protestants to the laws established, to be, not for conscience and zeal: but for moral honesty, and fear of temporal punishment, say the Papists; for their own quiet, credit & profit in the world, say you.  
6. You both renounce a public alteration and dissolution of the state ecclesiastical.  
7. You both deny, that you exhibit your petitions, with a tumultuous spirit, or with a disloyal and schismatical mind.    The Puritan. 
What tell you me of these things? these are but matters of circumstance; but have you observed any semblance in any matter of substance?  
I tell you plainly, that we defy the Pope and his Religion: we say that he is Antichrist, because he advanceth himself above all that is called God. For when Kings and Emperors (to whom the name of God is communicated) do comeinto the presence of his holiness, they 
b Lib. cerem. 1. sect. 5. cap. 3▪ & Lab. 3. sect. 1 cap. 3.  must (forsooth) after obeisance done in three several distances, fall down before him and kiss his feet.  
And if 
c lib. 1. cerim. sect. 2. cap. 3.  they be in presence when he taketh horse, the chiefest of them must hold his right stirrup, and likewise when he lighteth off do the same.  
Take an example of his insolent and Antichrist Turrian behaviour. Pope 
a Naucler▪ generat. 40.  Alexander the third excommunicated the Emperor Fredricke Barbarossa, and took his Son prisoner in Venice. And when he came into the Church of Saint Mark there, to the end that he might be absolved, and his Son restored, the Pope having commanded him to prostrate himself upon the ground, & so to ask pardon, set his foot in the neck of the said Emperor, saying: it is written, Super aspidem & basiliscum ambulabis, & conculcabis Leonem & Dracaonem.  The Protestant. 
If the Doctrine of your consistorians and disciplinarians might take place, our Kings of England (I fear) would in short time be brought to the like slavery: for do not they teach that Princes ought to submit themselves to the Seniors of the Church, and that they ought to be content to be ruled and governed, to be punished and corrected, to be excommunicated and absolved by their discretion, and at their pleasure? Christian Princes must remember (saith T. C) 
b T. C. page▪ 144. sect. 1.  to subject themselves unto the Church, to submit their Sceptres, to throw down their Crown before the Church: yea to lick the dust of the feet of the Church.) Doth not this Puritan-popish Doctrine smell of Antichristianisme?  
But to proceed, wherein do your chief writers, descent from the Popish writers?  The Puritan. 
Wherein do we not?  The Protestant. 
Insist in some particulars.  The Puritan. 
Cardinal 
c Bellar. de council. cap. 12.  Bellarmine, 
d Cardill. in defence. council. Trident. dis. 1.  Cardill, 
e Harding▪ in confut. apol▪ Anglic. part 5. cap. 6, sect. ●  Harding and the rest of the Popish Doctors teach, that Counsels and Synods may be assembled without the Knowledge of the Emperor.  The Protestant. 
Do not your Doctors teach the same Doctrine? have they not had many assemblies and classical Synods, whereunto the authorizement of the Prince was not had? is not their opinion answerable to their practice?  The Puritan. 

a Bellar. lib. 1. de council. cap. 19 johannes de turre crematae lib. 3. de ecclcs. cap. 22. cardill. in disput. 2. de council.  The Papists also teach, that the Emperor ought not to be over-ruler, or determiner in Counsels and Synods.  The Protestant. 
Doth not T. C. teach the self same Doctrine? 
b T. C. Lib, 2 pag. 165. 154  No civil magistrate (saith he) in Counsels or Assemblies for Church matters, can either be chief moderator, over-ruler, judge or determiner.  The Puritan. 
Yea, but do any of our teachers deny the King's supremacy, as the Papists do?  The Protestant. 
What say you to T. C. who speaketh most clearly, and seemeth to be on the Pope's side in this matter. His words are these: 
c lib. 2. page 48.  The Christian Sovereign ought not to be called the hoad under Christ, of the particular and visible Churches within his Dominions.  The Puritan. 
But do any of our writers, spoy le the Civil Magistrate of all government in Ecclesiastical matters, as the Papists do?  The Protestant. 
Yes, the Admonitors say in plain terms, that 
d Admon. page 126.  to these three jointly, that is, the Ministers, Seniors, and Deacons, is the whole regiment of the Church to be committed.  
Now if the whole government of the Church, be to be committed to Ministers, Seniors, and Deacons, what authority remaineth to the civil Magistrate in the government of it?  The Puritan. 

a These are the words of T. C. page. 153.  I answer in the name of the Authors of the Admonition, that the Prince and civil Magistrate hath to see, that the laws of God touching his worship, and touching all matters and orders of the Church, be executed and duly observed: and to see that every Ecclesiastical person, do that office whereunto he is appointed: and to punish those which fail in their office accordingly. As for the making of the orders and ceremonies of the Church, they do (where there is a constituted and ordered Church) pertain to the Ministers of the Church▪ etc.  The Protestant. 
I reply with the words of the late Reverend Archbishop. 
b In his defence of the answer to the Admon. page. 694. 695. 696.  What? no more but to see them executed? how differeth this from Papists? The Papists give to the Christian Magistrate in Ecclesiasticallmatters, potestatem facts & noniuris, that is, to see those laws executed and put in practice that the Pope and his Clergy shall make, and to be as it were their executioner, but not to make any laws in Ecclesiastical matters: for doth not Saunders a popish writer say the same? 
c sanders fol. 64.  Although I do not deny (saith he) that the knowledge of a fact that belongeth to the Ecclesiastical law, may be committed to Kings and Magistrates: and before the Ecclesiastical cause be determined, the King may use his authority to this end, that there may be some quiet place prepared, where the Bishops shall consult, and that the Bishops be called to the same place at a certain day, and that in the mean time while the matter is in determining, common peace may be preserved even among the Priests themselves. To conclude, after the cause be determined and judged by the Priests, the King may punish him with the sword which he carrieth not in vain) or by some other corporal punishment, which shalrefuse to obey the sentence of the Priests.  

a Muscul. in locis com-titu●: de magistratu.  Musculus also setteth out this Popish opinion, touching the authority of the civil Magistrate in Ecclesiastical affairs, very plainly in these words: Those whom they call Ecclesiastical Persons, and we call them Papists, will not commit to the Magistrate, any further authority in Religion, then to be the keeper and revenger of it, and of their Ecclesiastical Laws, that the Ecclesiastical policy may remain immoovable: wherefore they deny him to have authority, in that he is a Magistrate, to make or to publish any Ecclesiastical laws, because such things pertain to those that do represent the Church; whose decrees and constitutions must be maintained and defended by the authority of the Magistrate.  
But to leave▪ this resemblance, what arguments do the Popish Doctors use against the Prince's authority in causes Ecclesiastical?  The Puritan. 

b Sanders. lib. 2 cap. 1. fol. 27.  Saunders, 
c Harding. against the Apology. fol. 118.  Harding and other of them do quote 2 Chron. 198. 11. which place maketh indeed fully against them: for jehosaphat had chief authority and government both in things pertaining to the Church, and in things pertaining to the Commonwealth; but for better execution of them, the one he did commit to be executed by Amaziah the Priest, the other by Zebadiah a Ruler of the house of juda: even as the King's Majesty, being in all causes, both Ecclesiastical and Temporal, within these his Realms and Dominions, supreme governor, committeth the hearing and judging of Ecclesiastical matters to the Reverend Fathers of the Church, and of Temporal matters, to the Right honourable, the Lord Chancellor and other judges.  
Now had jehosaphat nothing to do with Church-matters, because he made Amaziah Priest judge in the same? they may as well say, that be had nothing to do in Temporal affairs, because he also appointed Zebadiah to hear and determine them.  The Protestant. 
True, and yet T. C. quoteth the self same place, to prove the self same thing, 
a T. C. page. 145. sect. 1.  look (saith he) in the second Book of the Chronicles in the 19 Chap. and in the 8. and 11. verses, and you shall see that there were a number appointed for the matters of the LORD, which were Priests, and levites, and there were other also appointed for the kings affairs, and for matters of the Commonwealth etc.  The Puritan. 
But in what other things agree we with the Papists?  The Protestant. 
1. The Papists would not have the scriptures read in the Church to the people: No more would your Puritane-popish writers: for 
b In their view of po. Pish abuses remaining. fol. 2.  they blush not to say that reading is no feeding, but as evil as playing upon a Stage, and worse too.  
2. The Papists condemn our Book of common prayers, set out by public authority, and the whole order of service: so do you.  
3. The papists say that our Sacraments are not rightly ministered: so say you likewise, as hath been already showed.  
4. The Papists say that we have no right ministery in England, no Pastors, no Bishops, because they be not rightly and canonically called to these functions: & the self same do you affirm, as hath also been showed.  
5. The Papists avouch that we are not the true church, no that we have not so much as the outward face and show of the true Church: & the self same thing do your Puritan-popish teachers avouch, in their first Admonition, page 33. and in their second admonition. page▪ 6.  The Puritan. 
All this notwithstanding, we come far short of the Papists: for Popery is (as 
a ●. B●in his toil for 2. legged Foxes. chap. 3.  one truly saith) an hodge-podge and miserable mingle-mangle of all Satan's forgeries and devilish heresies. With Carpocratian Heretics they set up the image of Christ, and other Saints; with the Anthropomorphits, they pain● God the Father like an old man with a grey beard: with the Pelagian Heretics, they maintain free will, power to justify ourselves, and to fulfil the commandments: with the Messalians, they mumble their Matins, Pater nosters, and seven Psalms by number, upon a pair of Beads: with the Tatians, Cataphryges, montanists, and Ebionites, they seek sanctification in eating and not eating, in marrying and not marrying. etc.  
But not to insist in the enumeration of their Heresies can you show that we have revived any old Heresies?  The Protestant. 
I can show, that there was scarce any Heresy invented by old▪ Heretics, which either the Papists or the Puritans have not revived and renewed with fresh and new colours. And besides their opinions, you have also their tricks, qualities, and conditions.  The Puritan. 
Insist I pray you in us, whom you call Puritans: can you prove that we have joined with any old Heretics?  The Protestant. 
Yes, you have joined with the pharisees, apostolics, Aerians, Pepuzians, Petrobrusians, Florinians, Cerinthians, Nazarens, Beguardines, Ebionites, Catobabdites, Enthusiasts, Donnatists'.  The puritan●. 
To begin with the pharisees, wherein have we joined with them?  The Protestant. 
The pharisees sewed Pillows of selfe-liking under their own armholes, & took no knowledge of beams in their own eyes; but evermore excepted against their brethren, as men not worthy the ground they trod upon. Why eateth your Master (said they to Christ's Disciples) with Publicans and Sinners? The like exception (to my knowledge) did some of your faction lately take against a Minister, that chanced to eat with one that was suspected to be a Papist. Why eateth our Minister (said they) with one that is a Papist?  
2 The pharisees separated themselves from other people as more holy than they, and therefore 
a Fosterus in dictinar. hebraico.  some think, that they be called pharisees, quasi segregati, quod vita sanctimonia, a vulgi moribus & vita seperati essent, non aliter ate que Monachi, quo● Carthusianos vocant, as separated from the common sort in holiness of life and conversation, much like unto the Monks which be called Carthusians.  
And do not you come near the pharisees herein, when you despise all those that be not of your sect, as polluted, & not worthy to be saluted, as hath already been showed?  
3 
b josephus lib. Antiquit. Tom. 2. lib. 18. cap. 2.  josephus observeth this to be an other property of the pharisees, viz: that whatsoever their own reason persuaded them; id sequuntur partinaciter, that they stubbornly followed. And the self same thing have I observed to be the property of stiff and stubborn Puritans in these days.  
4 The pharisees were (as the same 
c Tom, 2, lib. 17, cap. 3.  josephus witnesseth) astutum hominum genus, arrogans, & interdum quoque regibus insestum, etc. that is, a subtle kind of men, arrogant, and sometime deadly enemies to Kings: and so are you.  
For it is not unknown to any that hath had any dealing with you in worldly affairs, how crafty and subtle you are in all your dealing.  
As for your arrogancy and contempt of superiority, this is not unknown to the kings Majesty himself.  

a See his majesties speech delivered in the Upper house of Parliament March. 19 〈◊〉.  Puritans (saith his Highness) are ever discentented with the present government and impatient to suffer any superiority, which maketh their sect unable to be suffered in any well governed commonwealth.  
Thus you see, that we have just cause to term you English pharisees and to say with Nazianzen: 
b Gregor. Nazianzen, eye to ret.  Pharisais' is ou genos a●●atropos ergasetai, not the nation but the conversation maketh a Pharisie.  The Puritan. 
But wherein I pray you do we join with the apostolics, Aerians, Petrobrusians, and the rest of those old Heretics before named?  The Protestant. 
The apostolics, neither considering the diversity of times for Ecclesiastical policy; nor the true liberty of Christian Religion in things indifferent nor the authority of christian Magistrates, concerning the same, would have nothing to be used in the Church in these days, which was not used in the days of the Apostles; Now let it be imagined, whether your Preachers do not resemble them herein, when they complain, as hath been showed, that we have surplices devised by Pope Adryan. etc. which the Church of God in the Apostles time never knew and therefore they are not to be used.  
Aerius (of whom the Aerians took their name) was condemned of Heresy both by 
c Epiphan haeres. 75.  Epiphanius and Saint 
d Aug. haeres. 53.  Austen, for that he held, that Fasts appointed by the Church were not to be kept, and next, for saying that a 
a presbyterum ab episcopo, nulla differentia debere discerni.  Presbyter should not be distinguished from a Bishop by any kind of difference. How then can you wipe away the blot of Heresy, that reckon (as hath been showed) Saints eves, and Lent for Romish fasts; Archbishops and Bishops, for new ministries never ordained by God▪  
The Petrobrusians held, that holidays are Ethelothresceiai, and that no man hath, nor ever had, since Moses, authority to institute them in the old testament, nor in the new, except the Apostles, who instituted (as they say) the Sunday only. To this heresy of these Petrobrusians, did our Admonitors fully subscribe: for they condemned 
Admon. 1. page 81.  the observing of holy days, as a thing ᵇ contrary to the word of God▪ and as a piece of the Pope's porteous. But to proceed:  
There were certain Heretics called Beguardini, who held, that 
c Spriritualem human obedient●ae non esse subjectum. Clementin. Lib. 5 tit. 3. cap. 3.  a spiritual man is not subject to humane obedience: Now let it therefore be judged with indifferency, whether you Puritans have not some touch of this Heresy, who will not submit your necks and souls to the yoke of human obedience in things indifferent.  
There were also other Heretics called 
d Acephali ob quam c●●fam dicti suat, quod sub Episcop●s non faerint Nicephor. Lib. 18. cap 45.  Acephali, or 
e Episcopos soli Cat●bab●it●● non recip●unt. Nicephor lib. 18. cap. 49.  Catobabditae, who would not suffer any Bishop to have any jurisdiction over them. Now if these Catobabdites were for this very cause reputed Heretics, what shall we say of you Puritans, that do tread in their steps? what reason can you bring that this should be an Heresy in them and none in you? where got you that exemption? or if it be an Heresy in both alike, why should you not be condemned▪ for Heretics both alike.  
The Enthusiasts, Pepuzians, and other old Heretics depended on dreams, visions, and revelations: and so have some of your Puritan▪ preachers done, as hath been already proved.  
The Ebionites, Corinthians, Nazarens, and Florinians, were reputed Heretics, because they tied men ●o a strict observation of Mosaical ceremonies. Now this old Heresy was renewed by one of your faction in Oxefordshire, (who as an 
a D▪ Houson in his Festivi, ties of the church▪ of England.  Oxeford Doctor testifieth) when his father's ribs were broken, would not ride for a bonesetter on the Sabaoth day  
The jovinianistes were condemned for Heretics, because they held all sins to be equal. Now this Heresy have some of your faction beg●inne to revive. For example sake and for verifying what I have spoken, I will acquaint you with the very words of some of them.  
To insist again in an Oxefordshire man, ᵈ there was one that went out of Oxeford, and preached in a Market-town 
b D. Houson. ibid.  in Oxefordshire, that it is as great a sin to do any servile work upon the Sabaoth, as to do murder and commit adultery.  
And there was another judiniduum vagum, that preached in a market-town in Somersetshire, that it is as great a sin to throw a bowl on the Sabaoth day as to kill a man. Yea some have not blushed to say, that it is as great a sin to kill a man's Cock, as to kill his Servant.  
But let us leave the jovinianists, and come to the Donatists.  The Puritan. 
Do we agree with the Donatists?  The Protestant. 
Yes, the Donatists divided themselves from the congregations of other men, and had their private conventicles: so have you.  
Again, the Donatists held the minister to be de ipsa baptismi essentia, of the being of Baptism: and so do you, as hath already been showed.  
Yea, T. C. came not far short of the Donatists, when he taught, that 
c T. C. page 137.  children of Heretics and of such as by excommunication, are cut off from the Church, may not be baptised. But let us come to our Brownists, which are indeed the very brood of the Donatists,  The Puritan. 
Do we agree with the Brownists too.  The Protestant. 
Yes, and that in so many things, as that I can hardly find any difference betwixt them and you.  
To insist in some particulars, the Brownists strive about external matters, and separate themselves from us: for things ceremonial, as appeareth by the very confession of the Overseers, Deacons, and Brethren of the English Church at Amsterdam in Holland, exiled, (as they falsely 
a In their Epistle to the King's Majesty, prefixed before their Apology.  report) for the Gospel of Christ. Their confession is this: 
b See the preface of their confession of faith. pag. 7.  We testify by these presents unto all men, and desire them to take knowledge hereof, that we have not forsaken any one point of the true, ancient, Catholic, and Apostolic faith, professed in our land: but hold the same grounds of Christian religion with them still, agreeing likewise herein with the Dutch, Scottish, German, French, Helvetian, and all other Christian reformed Churches round about us, whose confessions published, we call to witness our agreement with them, in matters of greatest moment, being conferred with these Articles of our faith, etc. Now, as the Brownists do (by their own confession) strive about external & ceremonial things: so do you likewise. And therefore we may fitly say unto you both, as Saint Paul said unto the like in his time: 
c Còr. 11. 16.  If any man lust to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the Churches of God.  
2 The Brownists deny our Church to be the true Church of Christ. These are their impious words: 
d See the confession of faith, exhibited to the K. by the Brownists of Amsterdam. Article 31.  These Ecclesiastical Assemblies, remaining thus in confusion and bondage, under this Antichristian ministery, courts, canons, worship, ordinances, etc. without freedom and power to redress any enormity among them, cannot be said in this confusion and subjection, truly to have Christ their Prophet, Priest, and King, neither can be in this estate, (whilst we judge them by the rule▪ of Gods word) esteemed the true, visible, orderly gathered or constituted Churches of Christ, whereof the faithful may become or stand members. And the like words have some of your faction likewise uttered against our church. 
e Admon. 1. pag 4.  Wein England (say the Admonitors) are so far off from having a Church rightly reform, that ●●t 〈◊〉 scarce come to the outward face of the same.  
3 The black-mouthed Brownists do rail thus on our Hierarchy: 
f Confession of faith art. 29  The present Hierarchy retained and used in England of Archishops, Primates, Lordships, metropolitans, Suffragans, Deans, Prehendaries, Canons, Peticanons, archdeacons, Chancellors, Commissaries, Priests, Deacons, our half Priests, Parsons, Vicars, Curates, Hierling reaving-preachers, Churchwardens, Parish-clarkes: also their Doctors, Proctors, and other officers of their spiritual courts; together with the whole rabble of the Prelates and their soruitours, from, and under them, set over these Cathedral and Parishional assemblies in this confusion, are a strange and Antichristian ministery and offices. And the like lybelling and railing, these and your Teachers used▪ Our bishops (
a In the book entitled, the State of the church of England. pag. 9  say they) are Antichristian Prelates, 
b Hay any pag. 4.  ordinances of the devil, Petty Popes, Petty Antichrists, 
c Martin's epist. 37.  cogging and cozening knaves, 
d Martens sen. B. 4. C. 1.  robbers, wolves, simoniacs▪ persecutors, sowers of sedition, and discontentedness, 
e Martin's protest. pag. 4.  and that the worst Puritan, is an honester man than the best Lord Bishop in Christen●ome.  
4 The forenamed 
f In the preface of their Confession of faith. pag. 9  Brownists, have sued to the Prince and Parliament, to have Bishops removed out of the Church, as being the limbs of Antichrist: so have your Puritan Preachers likewise done, in their admonitions and supplications to the Parliament.  
5 The Brownists would have Pastors, 
g See their second petition to the King particul. 5.  Teachers, Elders, Deacons, and Helpers, in stead of Archishops, Lordbishops, Suffragans, Deans, Archdeacon's, Chancellors, etc. and so would you too. 
h Martin junior. Thes. 22  Of necessity saith Martin, all Christian Magistrates, are bound to receive this government by Pastors, Doctors, Elders, and Deacons, and to abolish all other Church government.  
6 It is an article of the Brownists Creed, that 
i See their confession of faith art. 23. and their 2. petition to the king particul. 5.  every Congregation hath power and commandment, to elect and ordain their own ministery, so it is an article of your Creed also, that the common people of every Congregation should elect their own Ministers.  
7 The 
k In their preface of the Confession of faith. pag. 10.  Brownists cry out against our Cathedral Churches, and complain that we have Organs, Choristers, singing men and boys, as in times passed in popery: so do your Leaders cry out against our 
l Admon. 1. pag. 225.  chief chanters, singing men, Organplayers, and squeaking Choristers: as they call them.  
8 The absurd 
m In their second petition to the King particul. 13.  Brownists say, that degrees in Theology, enforcement to single life in Colleges, and the study of heathen Writers, with other like corruptions, (as they term them) in Schools and Academies, should be removed and redressed: and the like say you, as hath already been showed.  
9 The Brownists have exhibited a supplication to the King's Majesty, and therein craved, that 
n See their second petition, particul. 9  no apocrypha writings, but only the Canonical Scriptures be used in the Church: and so have you.  
10 The 
a Confess. art. 30  Brownists would not have Homilies to be read in the Church, no more would you.  
11 The 
b See their 2. petition particul. 9  Brownists dislike our prescript form of prayer, and so do 
c Admon. 1 pag. 17.  you.  
12 The 
d In the preface to the Confession pag. 10.  Brownists bear the world in hand, that our Service Book is verbatim gathered out of the Mass-book: so do you, that it is 
e Admon. 1 pag. 16.  culled and picked out of that popish dunghill, the Portuise and Mass-book.  
13 The newfangle 
f In the preface of the Confession. pag. 10.  Brownists blame is, for keepieg the old fashion of Psalms, Chapters, Epistles, Gospels, Versicles, Responds, Te Deum, Benedictus, Magnificat, Nunc dimittis, Our Father, Lord have mercy upon us, The Lord be with you, O Lord open thou my lips, Glory be to God on high, Lift up your hearts, O come let us rejoice, Glory be to the father, Quicunque vult, etc. and the self same do you.  
14 The 
g Ibidem.  Brownists dislike our Litany and Collects: so do you.  
15 The 
h Confess. art 30.  Brownists dislike our Prayers over the dead at burial: so do you.  
16 The Brownister would not have Preachers to preach at burials: No more would you, as appeareth by your Book of 
i Capped Contion bus ad Ecelesiam habendis.  Discipline, wherein are these express words: Infuneribus desuescendum est commodè, ab habendis concionibus, quod periculum sit; us super stitionem quorundam foveant, aut vanitati inseruiant: The Preachers must leave off by little and little, as they may conveniently, to preach at burialis, lest thereby they nourish the superstition of some men, or give over themselves to the preservation of vanity: Yea the 
k Adm●nit. pag. 200  Admonitors were not ashamed to compare funeral Sermons to Trentals.  
17 The 
l In their ●petition to the King particul. 11.  Brownists crave, that the Church be not urged to keep any holie-dayes, save only to sanctify the Sabbaoth: so do you, as hath already bi● showed.  
18 The 
m In their preface of the conf. pag. 10  Brownists do reckon Saints Eves, and Lent, for Romish fasts: so do you.  
19 The 
n Ibidem.  Brownists dislike the Ring in marriage: so do (you.  
20 The 
o In their preface of the confess pag. 9  Brownists would not have women to be churched: no more would you.  
21 The 
p Ibidem.  Brownists have slandered our Ministers, and blazed abroad, that they take upon them to forgive men their sins: and so have you, as hath been showed.  
22 The 
q In their conf. art. 30.  Brownists also falsely report, that we permit Midwives to administer Baptism: so do you.  
23 The 
r In the preface of their confess. pag. 10  brainsick Brownists would not have children to be baptized in Fonts: no more would you; because Fonts (as you say) were invented by Pope Pius.  
24 The 
s Admonit. 1. pag. 105.  Brownists dislike of Crossing in Baptism: so do you; because (forsooth) 
t Preface of the conf. p. 10  it is a piece of Popery.  
25 The 
u Admonit. 1 pag. 105.  Brownists dislike that children should have godfathers and godmothers at their Baptism: so do 
x Preface of the conf. p. 10  you.  
26 The 
y Admonit. 1 pag. 105.  Brownist●s would not have Interrogatories to be ministered to Infants: no more would 
z Ibidem.  you.  
27 The 
a Ibid. Preface pag. 10.  Brownists blame us for Ministering the communion to the people kneeling: so do you.  
28 The 
b Conf. art. 30  Brownists hold Surplices to be Popish corruption: so holdye them to be known liveries of Antichrist  
29 The 
c In their defencepag. vlt. and in their 2. petition particul. 14.  Brownists would have nothing to be used in these days, which was not used in the days of the Apostlés: no more would you.  
30 The 
a In their preface of confess. p. 10. & 13  Brownists think it unlawful for us, to use any rite or ceremony in our Church, which is used in the Church of Rome: and so do you.  
To conclude, the Brownists and the Puritans do agree together in all things (their separation only excepted) as even as two pieces of cloth, that are of the same wool, of the same thread, of the same colour, and of the same breadth and length.  The Puritan. 
But to put you in mind of one particular, before we make an end of this our conference: why do you usually call us by the name of Puritans?  The Protestant. 
Why? because you agree with certain old Heretics, which were so 
b Catharoi.  called in former ages.  The Puritan. 
Wherein do we agree with them?  The Protestant. 
The old Puritans sought for a Church, saith master Caluine, 
c Caluin. adverse. Anabapt.  wherein there should want nothing that might he desired: even so do you as appeareth by these words of your chiefest Writer: 
d T. C. Reply pa. 17. sect. 4.  The Church in the whole and general government and outward policy of it, may be pure and unspetted.  
Secondly we call you Puritans, not because you are purer than other men are, no more than were the Puritans in ancient time; but because yond think yourselves to be 
e Mundiores cateris.  purer than others, as the old Puritans did.  
God almighty give you grace to become 
f Matth. 5. 8  pure in heart, and 
g 1. Cor. 1. 12  in simplicity and godly pureness, to have your conversation in the world.   

The second Dialogue; Treating of their Perseverance in Schism, and of their ghostly Idolatry.  
WEll met good Neighbour, what news I pray you?  The Puritan. 
I hear none, but that the Bishops have unjustly deprived many good Ministers of their livings.  The Protestant. 
I would not have any that beareth the name of a loyal subject to say so. Their Lordships do nothing against them, but what by their authority they may do, and by their charge they should do.  The Puritan. 
Why should they deprive them of their livings?  The Protestant. 
They should deprive them of their livings, because they persist and persever in an inveterate and old schism.  The Puritan. 
Is perseverance in schism such a matter, as that it deserveth deprivation?  The Protestants. 
I would not have you to think it a light matter, for a man to persist in an old schism. The ancient Fathers of the Church, that flourished in the prime age thereof, reputed it to be heresy.  The Puritan. 
Which of them, I pray you doth so repute it?  The Protestant. 
Saint Austen that was haereticorum malleus, The Hammer of Heretics in his time, doth so repute it. For in his second book against Cresconius, he doth define an heresy on this wise: 
a Aug. contra Cresc. Donat. cap.▪ 7.  Haeresis est schisma inveteratum: an Heresy is an inveterate schism.  
And in the chapter following, he thus speaketh to the whole crew of the Donatists: Haeretici estis quod in schismate inveterate remansistis: ye are Heretics, because you have persisted in an old schism.  
And in his Epistle to Emeritus the Donatist, though he called the said Emeritus 
b Virum probum & liberaliter eruditum. Aug. epist. 1●4 Aug. de civet. Dei l. 18. ca 51.  A very learned and an honest man; yet withal, he called him an Heretic, because he did persist in schism. His words are these: Neque enim vobis obijcims●●, nisi schismatis crimen, quanquam etiam haeresin male persever and● fecistis.  
So also in his book do Civitate▪ Des, he speaketh luculently enough to the point, in this manner, Qui in Ecclesia Christi morbidun aliqued prowmque sapiunt, si correpti, ut sanuri rectumque sapiant, resistant contumaciter, suaque pestifera, & mortifera dogmata emendare nolunt, sed defen are persistunt: haeretici fiunt.  
Many other deadly blows might I give you with this hammer of Heretics, but I will stay mine hands for a while: Now let us take a view of the later Writers.  The Puritan. 
Is there any store of them on your side?  The Protestant. 
Yes, I dare aver, that we have as deep men for learning and judgement, as any you have on your side.  
What say you to master Gyfford, 
c Giffard in his plain declaration, that our Brownists be full Donatists: vide prafat.  who rangeth the Brownists amongst Heretics, because they persisted in an inveterate schism. Doth he not tell them in express words, That inveterate schism is heresy.  
So doth also one A. W. in a Sermon preached at Paul's Cross, before the honourable audience and assembly there 1592. upon the first chapter of the prophecy of Zachary 1, 2, 3, and 4. verses. His words were these: 
a A W. in a Sermon preached at Paul's Cross, 1592.  These as yet we will vouchsafe the names of Schismatics. But let them take heed betime, for if they continue obstinate, their schism will be changed into heresy.  The Puritan. 
But you do tell me but of those of this Church of England, that do haply applaud your opinions: but do any of the learned men beyond the Seas approve this your opinion?  The Protestant. 
Yes, Theodore Beza, in his annotations upon the Acts of the Apostles, doth fully subscribe to the same truth. His words are these: 
b Beza in Act. 5. 17.  Hareticus est, qui a doctrina sana ita aberrat, ut contempto Dei & ecclesiae judicio in sententia permaneat, & ecclesiae concordiam violet: He is an Heretic, which so swerveth from wholesome doctrine, as contemning the judgement both of God and the Church, persisteth in his opinion, and breaketh the peace of the Church.  
Finally, to descend to Danaus, a reverend writer of very good regard, he also holdeth, that continuance in schism, maketh Heresy. 
c Lambertus Danaus in annot. in Lib. August. de haresibus ad. Quod●ult deum, in proleg●●●●●, cap. 3.  Exschismate (saith he) postea fit haeresis ut docet Augustinus. And speaking of the Luciferian Heresy, he saith thus: 
d Dan. ●● Aug. de haeres. ca 81.  Fuit hac secta primum schisma, non ita valde quidem periculosum, ut hic Augustinus docet & Ambrose in orat. Funebri, de obitu fratris, estque in calione adu●cauit 24. quast. i. itêmque Ruffinus libr. 1. cap. 30. sedex schismate facta est haeresi, ut aliae multa, 〈◊〉 ad sui facti, & cecessi●mi● defensi●n●m animo sius quam 〈◊〉 verbo Dei abutitur, illûdq●e falsa interpretatione 〈◊〉. Whom would not these sayings of so worthy men, bring from perseverance in schism?  The Puritan. 
Although these worthy writers, seem to be on your side; yet I cannot persuade myself to yield unto you, because I can prove the contrary by an invincible argument.  The Protestant. 
I pray you let me hear it.  The Puritan. 
The Ministers that are deprived, do not differ from you in matters fundamental and substantial, but only in matters ceremonial and accidental: therefore they are not to be reputed Heretics.  The Protestant. 
Call you this an invincible argument? Alas, it is but a silly shift, and an heretical objection, found in the School of Cresconius the Donatist, and there first forged upon the Anvil of error; who maketh (by the report of Saint Austen himself in his book against him, the self same objection. 
b August l. 2, contra Crescon. Grammatic, Cap, 3.  Quid sibi vult (saith he to Saint Austen) quod ais haeriticorum sacrilegum errorum? 〈◊〉 haeresis non nisi inter diversa sequentes fieri s●l●●: ●●c h●reticus nisi contrariae vel aliter interpretata religionis hast cult●r, ut sunt Manichaei, Arriani, Marci●●it●, N●uati●●i, caeterique quorum inter se contra fidem Christianam diversa sententiastat. Inter nos quidem idem Christus natus, mortuus et resurgens, una religio, eadem sacramenta, nihil in Christiana observatione diversum, schisma factum non haeresis. Siquidem haeresis est diversa sequentium secta: schisma vero eadem sectantium seperatio. Quare et in hoc studio criminandi, quem tu incurris non vides errorem, cum quod schisma est haeresin vocas. Hear you see, how that Cresconius taxeth Saint Austen, for calling him an Heretic, and telleth him how that he held the same saith, embraced the same Religion, had the same Sacraments, and used the same Christian observances, which the true Church of Christ did: and that therefore he could not be an Heretic. Saint Austen replieth, saying: Inutterate schism is Heresy. And again, ye are Heretics because you have persisted in an inveterate schism.  
Secondly, I answer you, as the same 
a August. contra crescon. cap. ●  Father answered Cresconius, that they do differ from us in some things that are fundamental and substantial. To omit sundry things of that nature, let me press only one particular. Have 
b H. B. H. I. with many others.  they not blazed and divulged abroad sundry false expositions upon the Article of Christ's descent into hell▪ and do they not stiffly and obstinately defend the same? let it therefore be judged without partiality, whether they agree with us in all matters of substance, or no.  The Puritan. 
Admit they do impugn the true sense and meaning of one article of the Creed, doth this bring them within the Compass of Heresy?  The Protestant. 
Yes, it is not denied by any sort of Divines, ancient or recent▪ but that he is an Heretic, which doth stiffly & obstinately defend any error, that doth either directly impugn some article of the saith, or the true sense and meaning of some Article of the faith.  
Hear the judgement of Danaus: 
c Danaus' in Annot. in lib. Aug. de heres. in prolog. C. 3  Hareticus est qui falsam de aliquo fidei capite sententiam sequitur, quam obstinate defendit, sive ipsa fidei et articuli verba oppugnet, si●●ipsius veram mentem, dian●i in et analogian. And of the same judgement are all other writer. of note.  The Puritan. 
Though all other writers be of the same judgement, yet it is to no purpose to tell me of them: for they will not move me for say what you will against the brethren, I will nearer believe that you can bring them within the compass of Heresy.  The Protestant. 
Yes, and within the compass of idolatry too▪  The Puritan. 
I would gladly hear that.  The Protestant. 
That obstinate Puritans are Idolaters: I trust to make it plain and evident by this argument.  
Those that worship their own opinions, conceits and fancies, and yield not to the truth, though never so plainly demonstrated, are 〈◊〉:  
But obstinate Puritans do worship their own opinions, conceits and fancies, and yield not to the truth, though it hath been plainly demonstrated unto them: therefore they are idolaters.  The Puritan. 
I deny first your proposition.  The Protestant. 
That it is Idolatry to worship a man's own opinions, and not to yield to truth: I prove it by this speech of the Apostle: 
c Coloss. ●. 5  covetousness is idolatry. From which saying of his, I dispute thus: If the Apostle hold those to be idolaters, that did set their hearts upon their ●i●ches, and were so wedded unto them, as that no persuasion could bring them from the love of them: the consequence is not to be rebuked that we infer upon it; that we may as well term them idolaters, that do set their hearts upon their opinions, and are so wedded unto them, as that neither the authority of sacred scriptures, nor the judgement of ancient Fathers, 〈◊〉 the consent of late writers, nor the good laws of Christian Princes, can drive them from them.  
My proposition is also confirmed by the judgement of the 〈◊〉 Fathers▪ 
a 〈◊〉. in l. 1. 〈◊〉 i● Habac. cap. 5,  〈◊〉 et 〈◊〉 (saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, 〈◊〉 his 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. And in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 
b Hieren. in Dan. Cap. 3,  Qui 〈◊〉 sum dogma 〈…〉 faci●nt, et quantum in se 〈…〉 idolu● falsitatis. 
c Hieron in Hier●m c, ●2.  Again, vs● 〈◊〉 in temple Dei quae interpretatur ecclesia, sive in 〈…〉 ponitur idolum, quando 〈…〉 And in the pla●● 〈◊〉 quoted 
d Hieron in Habacu▪ cap. 2  Si 〈…〉 credere veritati, ●t 〈…〉 in 〈◊〉 study perseverare: cong●●e 〈◊〉 discere: sperat 〈…〉 et facit 〈…〉  
Saint Austen also is of the same judgement with Saint Hierom, as appeareth in his book▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈…〉 it a 〈◊〉 and a bas●●●i●de of idolatry, to worship a man's own fancies▪ then to worship the Sun, the Moon, & the Stars. His vordes are these:  

e Aug. de ver● relig. cap. 38.  Est alius deterior et inferior ●ul●us simulachrorum, quo phantasmata sua colunt, et quicquid 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 superbia veltimore cogitando imaginati fuerint, religionis nomine observant.  
With these ancient Fathers agree some of our best la●e writers. 
f ●. Bilson. in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the true difference of Christian subjection▪ part. 1. page. 30.  A corrupt and vicious Religion (saith a reverend ●nd learned Bishop) i● an inward and Ghostly worship of I 〈…〉 (saith another learned 〈◊〉 to worship 〈…〉 not to yield to truth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so 〈…〉  
To him consent●● Master▪ 
D. Sutcliffe in his challenge cap. 5.  Perkins, who preventing a secret objection▪ saith thus: 
h Perkins in his Book entitled, a warning against the idolatry of the last times ●●●ge. 15.  It may be further said that false opinions conceived of Christ 〈◊〉 not strait way 〈…〉 I 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hierome: Even to this 〈…〉 set up in the house of God 〈◊〉 in the ●ear●● and souls of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when a new Doctrine is devised Again, a false opinion is an idol of falsehood.  The 〈◊〉. 
to the Discipline of the Church? have they been vanquished in open disputation?  The Protestant. 
You have heard I am sure of the late conference, whereat our Prince 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Emperor Constantine, who (as 
a Eus●b. de ●it● Constantin lib. 1. cap, 37.  Eusebius recordeth) showed an excellent and especial care towards the Church of Christ jesus: calling councils of Bishops, when any dissension 〈…〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by God: not disdaining to be present and confer with th●●, that so he might the rather keep them in Christian peace: and, who (as the same writer 
b Eus●b. de ●ita Constantini, ●, 3, cap. 13.  testifieth) marked advisedly what every man said, helped either side disputing, tempered such as kindled too fast, reasoned my ●dly with each part, and undertook jointly with them, to search out the truth, confirming their decrees with his seal, lest other judges & Rulers should infringe them.  The Puritan. 
I have heard of the conference, but I pray you what was the issue thereof?  The Protestant. 
Surely, the Agents for the Millinery Plaintiffs, were there vanquished in disputation, and driven to 
c See the 〈◊〉 of the conference.  confess that their opinions were mere novelties, and new devised fancies.  
All which notwithstanding, many of their Proselytes and followers, do still continue obstimate. So that we may well say of them, as Saint Austen said of the like p●●●ish fellows in his time: 
d August de baptis. contr● donat. lib, 3, cap. ●2.  mal●●nt perversis vocibus veritati reluctari, quam confessis erroribus paci restitue.  
God give them grace to recant their errors, and not to show themselves still like Pilate, who would not alter any thing he had written, but said; that which I have written, 
john 19: 22.  I have written.   

The 3. Dialogue.  
Wherein is showed, that it doth not stand with equity, that some Ministers should be bound to show their 〈◊〉, and 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, & others be dispensed with.  The Protestant. 
WELL overtaken Sir, whither travel you?  The Puritan●. 
I travel towards the Parliament.  The Protestant. 
What, are you one of the Burgess●s?  The Purita●●. 
No, I am a Minister.  The Protestant. 
Are you a Minister? why wear you not then a Priest cloak with sleeves, as you are enjoined in the late Book● of 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 Ecclesiastical▪ I took you for one of the Burgesses, because you differ not from them in ●abit.  The Puritan. 
What reason is there, that the fashion and 〈◊〉 of Minister's 〈◊〉, should be different from other me●●▪  The Protestant. 
〈◊〉, great reason. 〈◊〉 asked his messengers who●e he had sent to the God of Ekro● for oracle, of what 〈◊〉 and habit the man was, that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and they answered, 
a 2. King. ●. ●  he was an ●airie man, 〈◊〉 girded with a girdle of leather about his ●oynes. Which was a mark of knowledge enough to Ahaziah; though they knew not his name: It is Elijah the Thes●ite, said he.  
Now as the Prophet Elijah did wear a different habit, whereby he was known from other men: so should Ministers do, that when we meet them, we may know them to be Ministers, and so give them that reverence which is due to the Messengers of God. But to let this pass; I pray you what business have you at the Parliament?  The Puritan. 
I am the mouth of my Brethren to the Honourable Senate of Parliament, that some of our Ecclesiastical laws may be repealed and changed.  The Protestant. 
Were I worthy to be the mouth of my Brethren to that Honourable Senate; I would make humble suit, that you might be severely punished, for seeking to repeal & change those laws, which were enacted by grave and learned men.  
You would not be so busy with your Bills at the Parliament, if that law were of force amongst us, which (as 
b Demost. contr● 〈◊〉  Demoste●es testifieth) was of force amongst the Locrians, viz: That he that should offer ●o repeal and change ancient laws, and put up new, should come with a Halter about his Neck to the Parliament, that if there were better reason against his Laws, he should be hanged up for his ●olde attempt.  The Puritan. 
I would be 〈◊〉 a 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  The Protestant. 
Well, follow your own 〈◊〉, yet let me tell you with 
a Seneca in 〈◊〉▪  Seneca, that it is not good to be busy in a will ordered state. But I pray you make Auricular confession unto me, tell me in mine ear: have you no other business at the Parliament?  The Puritan. 
Yes, if we cannot procure an alteration of the jews, we will make suit for a dispensation.  The Protestant. 
I cannot see how it may stand with equity, that some should be bound to show their conformity and obedience to Laws, and others be dispensed with.  
It is Seneca his saying: 
b Seneca in Epist▪  Acqualitas prima pars aequitatis est. Equality is the first and chief part of Equity.  
Again, such a dispensation, would breed division: For a division in Laws, maketh a division in Kingdoms; and causeth partaking among the people, and choosing of sides: and therewithal strife, envy, emulations, contentions, and a thousand other such mischiefs.  
And as division in Laws, causeth division in Kingdoms; so division in Kingdoms, causeth the overthrow and subversion of Kingdoms. For it is a sure principle and maxim which our Saviour giveth in the Gospel. A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand.  
Now if the Kingdom of Satan divided against itself cannot stand; how can a Kingdom of flesh and blood, and of motrall men?  
But though no such danger were likely to ensue upon such a toleration and connivency; yet it standeth not with any conveniency, that one people within the same land, and under the same government, should be under divers laws. It is 〈◊〉 his saying▪ and it is an Oracle for truth, that they ought to be under one Law, that are under the government of one King. 
a Curtius' lib. 10.  Eiusdem juris (saith he) esse debent quisub eodem rege victuri sunt.  
It is also the judgement of ancient fathers, that all those that live in the same Church together, should be under Law indifferently, and should be enforced by the Law, to accommodate themselves, to the customs of the place wherein they live. In his rebus, saith Saint 
b August Epist 86.  Augusten de quibus nihil certi statuit scriptura divina, mos populi Dei, vel instituta maiorum pro lege tenenda sunt. And in another place, 
c Aug. Epist. 218.  Quod neque contra fidem, neque contra bones mores iniungitur, indifferenter est habendum, et pro corum inter quos vivitur societate seruandum est. And Saint Jerome holdeth it very meet, that Ecclesiastical traditions, (namely such as do not hinder faith) should be observed, as they are delivered of our Elders; & that the custom of one should not be overthrown with the contrary customs of others. His words are these: 
d Hieron. ad Lucivium.  Traditiones ecclesiasticas, (praesertim quae fidei non officiunt) ita obseruandas, ut a maioribus traditae sunt, nec aliorum consuetudinem, aliorum contrario modo subverti.  
With these ancient Fathers of the Church, our latter writers go hand in hand.  
Gualther writing upon the first to the Corinthians, saith thus: 
e Gualther in 1. Cor. 5.  Let every Church follow the manner of discipline, which doth most agree with the people, place and time. And in the Preface to the same Epistle, he saith, that in rites and ceremonies, there can be no better rule, for a grave and wise Christian; then that he do after that manner, the which he seethe used of the Church, unto the which he shall peradventure come.  
And Hemmingius holdeth it an heinous sin to break the ordinances of the Church. 
f Hemmingius in syntag. cap. de adiaphoris.  Qui violate (saith he) ecclesiasticam politiam, pec at multis modis.  
Zanchius also propoundeth us this rule to observe; that in external things, we would apply ourselves to the customs of the Countries, where we converse. I will acquaint you with his words: 
a Zanchius de operibus Dei part. 3. l. 4. c, 2  Tenenda stregula Apostoli de his externis rebus, quae etiam apud Gentiles visitate sunt: ut quae non pugnant cum verbo Dei, & nullam redolent vel superstitionem, vel faeditatem: ea● pro more & consuetudine regionis ubi degimus, una cum alijs obseruemus.  
Further, if you please to hear Doctor whitaker's, he is no cold advocate, & Proctor in this point. He doubteth not to say, that the Church hath authority, to make Laws in causes ecclesiastical; and to enjoin men to observe them: and to punish the refusers. I will give you his express words: 
b Whitak. controuers, 3. de council: quaest 1.  Habuit Ecclesia semper authoritatem l●ges Ecclesiasticas condendi, & sanciendi easque alijs imperandi, eos puniendi qui non obseruarent.  
As for Master Perkins, he is so far from exempting any from showing their comformity & obedience to the good laws of the Church; as that he holdeth them guilty of sin before God, that do wittingly and willingly, with a disloyal mind, either break or omit them. His words are these: 
c perkins in his treatise of conscience.  Wholesome Laws of men, made of things indifferent, so far forth bind conscience by virtue of the general commandment of God, which ordaineth the Magistrate's authority: that whosoever shall wittingly and willingly, with a disloyal mind, either break or omit such Laws, is guilty of sin before GOD: And in an other place of the same treatise: The Laws which the Church in proper speech is said to make, are dicrees concerning outward order and comeliness in the administration of the word and Sacraments, in the meetings of the Congregation, etc. And such Laws made according to the general rules of God's word (which requires that all things be done to edification, in comeliness, for the avoiding of offence) are necessary to be observed: and the word of God binds 
d It dispenses with none.  all men to them, so far forth a● the keeping of them▪ maintains decent order, and prevents open offence▪  
But what need I draw mine arguments from the Cisterns of human authority? It is the Apostles direction, that we should 
a Phil. ●▪ 16  all proceed by one rule, and mind one thing: that we should 
b 1. Cor. 1. 10.  all be knit together in one mind and in one judgement: and that we should 
c Phil. 1. 27.  all continue in one spirit, and in one mind.  
God Almighty whose work alone it is, that those who dwell together in one house, shall be of one mind, so magnify his work amongst us, that we who dwell together in one Kingdom, may now at length be of one mind, and live in peace. And thus I leave you, wishing first of all your conformity: if that cannot be had, my next wish is, that you were dealt withal, as Philip of Macedon dealt with two of his subjects, in whom there was little hope of grace: 
d Alterum ● Macedonia fugere, alterum persequi iuss●t.  he made one of them to run out of the country, and the other to drive him. So his people were rid of both.   
FINIS.