Certain Questions by way of Conference betwixt a Chancellor and a Kinswoman of his concerning Churching of Women.  
1601.   

Certain questions by way of conference betwixt a Chancellor and a kinswoman of his concerning Churching of Women.  Chancellor. 
Truly Cousin I am sorry that you should thus upon a peevish conceit of yours bring yourself into this unnecessary trouble for a trifle and matter of nothing as it were.  Woman. 
If you be sorry indeed as you pretend, than you might have let me alone, and not have caused your Apparitor to serve me (as he did) with Citation, for assure yourself if you had not troubled me, I would never have troubled myself about this trifle you speak of.  Chancellor. 
Nay I must not do so, I must deal indifferently you know, and not be partial though you be my kinswoman. Th'information being against you as well as others, & your name being presented to me by the church Wardens with other women more, if I should leave you out and proceed against them, I should not do that which were fitting for my place and office, you know I am sworn to do justice.  Woman. 
Indeed your office and place afoordes much justice, if it be well observed, as ordinary justice as Billingsgate doth love & friendship for a box of th'ear: you are sworn you say, and will not that oath of yours allow you to show as much favour and kindness to your kinswoman in a trifle, as to a stranger that is no kin to you in a matter of weight?  Chancellor. 
O I know where you are now, I thought where you would be strait, I knew I should hear of it, you mean mistress A.B. But in good faith your Minister did her wrong, neither had he any law to warrant him to do that he urged her unto: I confess she made a fault before she was married, but the man you know made her amends, and I do not hear but that they live orderly and well now: notwithstanding all which your hot spirited Minister (of spite & malice as itis thought) would have put them both to open penance, if I had not stuck close to them.  Woman. 
Merciful Christ, what need any witness to be produced against you, when your own mouth doth so apparently condemn you? The gentlewoman you confess made a fault: and what was that fault but simple Fornication at the least? For the which our Minister would have done that which belonged unto him, if you would have let him, and that which I take it (by your leave) the Book of common Prayer itself doth warrant him to do, and you by your own confession withstood him in that good purpose of his. Now surely (my good man) this is a sin amongst others that you must repent of, otherwise it willbe woe with you. And I pray you tell me one thing: Mistress A. B. is a stranger to you and I am your kinswoman, her fault (cover it & shadow it as you will) was uncleanness at the least, and that which you trouble me for, is but a Ceremony, & as yourself confess, a matter of no moment. What warrant have you then so stiffly to stand with her in her sin, and to deal thus sharply with me and others in a thing indifferent, or a matter of nothing?  Chancellor. 
Well gentle kinswoman, seeing you are so snappish & over-busying yourself in other folks matters that appertain not unto you, I pray you let me hear now how handsomely you can answer for yourself.  Woman. 
With whose matters did I meddle I pray you, did not you first name mistress A. B. yourself?  Chancellor. 
All is one for that, I know you meant her when you said, that my oath might as well allow me to show favour to my kinswoman in a trifle, as to a stranger in a matter of weight.  Woman. 
Well be it so then: If your conscience did accuse you, look you to that: But what have you now to say to me, and what is the cause why you have sent for me?  Chancellor. 
You need not ask, you know it well enough I am sure. It is for your foolish niceness in this trifling matter of Churching. And I pray you in good sadness, what reason have you why you refuse to be Churched?  Woman. 
If it be as you say a trifle, the more to blame you to trouble your friends in so trifling a cause: But what do you mean by Churching? Do you mean that which is set down in the Book?  Chancellor. 
Just, I mean that and none other: For law will not warrant us to press you to any other?  Woman. 
No nor I think to that neither if it be well examined: But seeing you mean that kind of Churching, The reason in a word why I refuse it is this: Because I would be loath to show myself either jew or Papist.  Chancellor. 
Why will thanksgiving to God after Childbirth make you a jew or a Papist?  Woman. 
No: Thanksgiving will not: But this manner of thanksgiving that you would have me to observe is in truth no thanksgiving at all, but a mere jewish or Popish Purifying.  Chancellor. 
How do you prove it to be no thanksgiving?  Woman. 
By the very first institution of it: For the Papists that were the worshipful founders and devisers of it, and knew best their own meaning, did in the instituting of it, give it this title: The Purification of Women after Childbirth. Whereby it is manifest that their very drift and intent in th'institution was only for a Purification or Purging, and therefore no thanksgiving: Secondly, there is no one word, matter or form of thanksgiving in the whole order of it as it is set down in the book: and therefore it can not be that it was ordained for Thankesgivinge. though in the title thereof it be absurdly so called.  Chancellor. 
But why do you term it a jewish or a Popish Purifying?  Woman. 
It is jewish in 2 respects: First in that the woman after she hath brought forth a child, is held unclean (as under the Law) till such time as she hath showed herself in the Temple. secondly in that she is commanded to offer her accustomed offerings, which is drawn & derived from the Lamb and young Pigeons under the Law. Popish it is in 3 respects: First in that it was instituted and devised by the Rapistes, apishly imitating the jews, and bringing in one kind of Purifying in stead of another. Secondly in that the woman is commanded to come as near the communion table, as in the time of popery they came to the high Altar. lastly, in regard of the Popish offering, to weet the Chrisom: For she is commanded to offer th'accustomed offerings, which is seat down to be the Chrisom, In which regard you may as justly trouble me and call me hither for not offering the Chrisom, as for not being purified, and as good law you have for th'one as th'other, which makes me think (as I said before) that you have no law amongst you (but only the lawless law of your will and pleasure) to compel any woman to be Churched.  Chancellor. 
Well, we will talk of that another time: but I would to God, ye foolish women would meddle with that which belongs unto you, and which is within the compass of your own element, and not take upon you the decision and interpretation of the law, which ye understand not: But I pray you tell me one thing, what if the Church now would institute and ordain a solemn Purifying of women, would you not be purified?  Woman. 
No indeed would I not: For if I should, I should then either with the jews deny Christ to be come in the flesh to give an end to those shadows which were figures of the purifying and washing away of our sins by his blood, or else with the Papists I must deny the bloodshed and sufferings of Christ to be th'only and alone sufficient purgation, of sin, and therefore it is that we must have a supply and be fart her helped by some Church Ceremony, or outward form of Prayers out of the mouth of some shaveling or Priest.  Chancellor. 
Yea, but see now I pray you how you are deceived in the heat of your zeal, look in the book there is no such matter of Purifying as you speak of, but only of Thanksgiving.  Woman. 
Trust me, you say true, I had almost forgotten that it speaketh not a word indeed of Purifying. But what a juggling & blearing of th'eis of the simple is this amongst you. May we not herein say of you & your fellows, that ye are the most perilous instruments, and dangerous impostors that ever Satan raised up for th'advancement and restoring again of Popery.  Chancellor. 
Why so I pray you my good kinswoman? What need all this heat among friends? You imagine belike you are among your scolding dames and prattling housewives at home?  Woman. 
No good Master Chancellor, I know I thank God where I am, neither am I any whit distempered at all: But that which I have said, I may truly and lawfully say again: In which regard well far the Papists say I, for they shall rise up in judgement against you, who like good fellows yet in plain and open terms, even bore faced, as it were, do seek to seduce us, and to draw us to their false and idolatrous worship and service in Popery, as namely by their Mass, Matins, Ensong, Purification, and other such like: Whereas you much more dangerously and even under a mask or vizard as it were, and not unlike to him that transformeth himself into an Angel of light, do go about to draw and allure us to the self same false worship & service but by cleanlier names and honester titles, as to their Purification by the title and name of Thanksgiving, that is, to a jewish Ceremony that should be abolished, under the pretence & colour of a service of God that should be continued.  Chancellor. 
But I pray you Cousin Puritan, is there no difference betwixt that in Popery and ours?  Woman. 
The difference (as I have been told by learned men) is only in this, That theirs is in Latin & yours in Englissh, otherwise your proper Thanksgiving which ye call Churching, is even the very same word for word (excepting only the Title, wherein (as I say) ye juggle and walk a little more covertly than they) with their Purification in Popery. And can the changing of a name or title alter the thing itself or make it of another nature? If ye have that gift and power amongst you, than ye may as well bring us in the Mass under the name and title of a Communion: and so he that refuseth to go to Mass, you may serve him with a Citation for not coming to the Communion, as in the like case you do now by us, you trouble us and call us in question for denying of Thanksgiving, because we refuse to be Purified.  Chancellor. 
In good faith it is more than I have considered of, whether that in Popery be so near agreeing to ours as you speak of, I believe your leaders have misinformed you. But howsoever it be and howsoever the Papists do hold and account of it, it makes no great matter. The Church you see now holdeth it for no other than a mere Thanksgiving, which is very deeent and requisite for every woman after so great deliverance.  Woman. 
What if the Church should hold our Lady's Psalter to be David's Psalter, or t'h ave Marie for a Prayer? Should I therefore take and use th'one for David's Psalter, and th'other for a Prayer? I know the Lord is to be thanked for all his mercies, much more for so great a blessing as Childbirth is: But as we are to give God thanks, and are thereunto tied and bound in duty and allegiance: so are we still to do the same according to the pleasure of him that commandeth, and after the square and rule of his ordinance, and not after the precepts, fancies and inventions of men, especially after the prescription of the man of Sin, that is after the manner of the superstitious and idolatrous Papists.  Chancellor. 
But in faith do you not think it a decent thing, that after so great an escape, and for the birth of a babe into the world, there should be Thanksgiving? or would you have no differeuce betwixt reasonable creatures and beasts, but that it should be left indifferent to unruly men to accompany with their wives at their pleasures, without regard of their weakness and uncleanness?  Woman. 
You ask me wonderful strange things: First whether it be not a decent thing upon such a deliverance and the birth of a Babe into the world, there should not be Thankefgiving. secondly, whether it should be left indifferent for men to play the beasts with their wives. Unto which I answer, that the manner of Churching that you thus trouble us for, doth not redress any of these inconveniences: There being in it in truth no manner of Thanksgiving at all, but only a speech or superscription of a Thanksgiving. Socondlie, whereas by the law of God, to touch a woman in the time of her separation and uncleanness, should be death, what punishment have you provided for this so great and heinous enormity? Or how doth your Churching of women restrain a carnal and licentious appetite from executing his villainous and beastly desire? Hath he not his full swinge and liberty to do what he lift for all that? So that ye complain of dangers, disorders, & inconveniences, and yet leave them still as you found them without cure or redress, never caring for any thing so your idle Ceremony may be kept.  Chancellor. 
A man may easily smell (gentle Cousin) where you have been at school, yet I have talked in my days with some of your own crew, and they hau cheld it for a thing indifferent at the least, and have not been half so hot in it as you, and therefore for the love I bear you, I would wish you to have some regard of modesty and womanhood. For yea faith when you have said and wrangled all that you can, it will be found a most decent thing.  Woman. 
A decent thing? What talk you of decency? I tell you I hold it far more than a Decent thing, even for a religious thing, and a part of my bounden duty, if it be (as you say) a Thanksgiving and a service of God. But I pray you tell me, because you wish me to have a regard of modesty and womanhood, have you had any information of any misbehaviour against me, either in my speech, company, or carriage of myself, if you have, I shall thank you as my good kinsman to admonish me of it.  Chancellor. 
By my troth no: if it were not for this odd pievishnesse of yours, (whereby you trouble both yourself and your friends more than needs) I do not (so God help me) know or hear any thing by you that deserveth reproof: and therefore I am the willinger to pull you out of it if I could.  Woman. 
It were well indeed if a could be pulled from my faults and you from your swearing. But when you friend or kinsman doth any thing or refraineth from any thing of conscience (as I may safely protest unto you in this case I do) Then the way and means to set me strait (if I be awry) is as I take it, the sacred Scriptures and word of God, which if you bring, or any good reason out of it for proof and warrant of this your Churching, woe and double woe to me if I subscribe not to it.  Chancellor. 
Whop: here is a revel and ado with Scriptures, my kinswoman, you say, refraineth of Conscience: But from what doth she refrain? forsooth from Thanksgiving to God: Is not this pretty stuff, or is not this a warm Conscience?  Woman. 
Not so: deceive not yourself, nor triumph not before the victory, your kinswoman thanketh God she hath been better taught then so. It is not from Thanksgiving to God (as you would have it) that she refraineth of Conscience, but only from jewish or Popish Purifying shadowed and varnished over with a colour or show of Thanksgiving. Thus she told you once before, and this she telleth you again and again. But I pray you let me ask you one thing.  Chancellor. 
What is that?  Woman. 
Is not Thanksgiving a service of God?  Chancellor. 
Yes: I hope no man doubts of that.  Woman. 
What mean you then to harp so much upon Decency and modesty? Would you have us serve God for Decency? Sometimes again you say that Churching is a thing indifferent, a trifle, and a matter of nothing, and yet you will needs have it to he a Thanksgiving to God. How can this hang together then, that one & the same thing should be a matter of Decency, of indifferency, or a trifle of no moment, & yet a service of God? Is the service of God come to that pass amongst you now?  Chancellor. 
I mean only the Ceremony of it, as the Time, and th'attire, the company of women, the offerings, and the feasting of neighbours and friends, to be as things indifferent & of no moment: But not the prayers and thanksgiving in the church, that I hold to be holy and not indifferent.  Woman. 
The truth is ye hold ye can not tell what amongst you: The Ceremony sticks so near to your service, and your manner of service is so suitable and agreeing with your Ceremony, that ye can not for your lives sever the one from th'other. Take away the Ceremony, and there is no need of your service that I see. Therefore you may do well in my conceit, to let them both henceforward sleep and surcease. For let the poor woman that hath escaped, be never so thankful, or let her husband (as master of the family) with his servants and friends give God thanks never so earnestly and christianly for that deliverance, (and that even then when the remembrance of that mercy of God is freashest in their memories) yet all this is nothing to you, nor of no reckoning, unless the Woman may have her solemn Purification at her months end, with her white veil or some such mark to be known by, which is a manifest sign that albeit ye pretend Thanksgiving, yet in truth ye care not for it, so your Popish custom and ceremony of Purifying be not broken of.  Chancellor. 
Indeed it were fit that ye women should appoint the service and ceremonies of the Church, and then belike we should be well & handsomely served. But I pray you tell me one thing: What if for the peace of the Church you should give thanks after this manner as in the book is prescribed, what discredit, danger or inconvenience would ensue to you upon that?  Woman. 
That is as much to say in good English, as what if for the peace of the Church one should make show to give thanks, when in deed and in truth there is no Thanksgiving at all? were not that a plain mocking of God, a kind of Hypocrisy, & Profaning of the name & Religion of God?  Chancellor. 
Trust me I think you are one of the perversest creatures that ever any man dealt with. I speak not one word of a show of Thanksgiving, but of giving thanks in deed, and look now whither you be run.  Woman. 
Why did you not speak of giving thanks after the manner as the Book prescribeth: and that as I have often told you, is but a show or shadow and no truth. How am I perverse then, when I ground upon your own speeches? Now because you ask me what inconvenience would ensue if I should for any respect use this pretended Than ksgiving, I will show you (if you will give me leave, & that you will with patience hear me) how I shall therein offend many and sundry ways.  Chancellor. 
As how I pray you for my learning?  Woman. 
Two ways I have already told you of: as first that in so doing, I should therein show myself either jewish or Popish.  
secondly, that in feigning to give GOD thanks, and to use no one word tending to that end, nor looking that way, is nothing else but in a sort to mock God to his face.  Chancellor. 
Well what then?  Woman. 
thirdly in so doing, I shall not only nourish, foster and maintain many superstitious and erroneous opinions in the hearts of th'ignorant, and so strengthen the simple in their false worship, but also fall into diverse and sundry most dangerous absurdities: as namely, first of all that a woman after childbirth is unclean and unholy, contrary to th'Apostles words, who teacheth us that a Woman is sanctified by bearing of children. For what may Purifying I pray you presuppose, but some former uncleanness? Likewise, that a woman is held for the time as an excommunicate person, and therefore most solemnly be received again into the church. For what may Churching presuppose but some former excluding, shutting out and cutting off?  Chancellor. 
These than I perceive are some of your supposed absurdities, have you any more of them?  Woman. 
Well jest as you please, I have more of them than you or any man of your place can with any conscience answer or avoid.  Chancellor. 
Let us hear them then I pray you, and dispatch that we may know all our pain at once.  Woman. 
Why then I say further that in yielding to this Churchinge of yours, I should by mine example condemn the primitive Church, and all the reformed Churches in other Countries at this day, who use no such churching: and withal justify and approve the papists, and all other superstitious churches that join with them in the use of it.  Chancellor. 
A great piece of work, as if it were such a matter to vary and dissent a little from Calvin or Beza, I tell you they may as well learn of us, as we of them.  Woman. 
Who spoke of Calvin or Beza? I promise you I did not so much as think of them. I spoke only of the Primitive and Reformed churches. And albeit those men you speak of were worthy instruments in God's church, & such as we have cause to thank God for: yet the Lord I know might have spread forth the light of his Gospel, and reform his Church, had they never lived. But this is the manner of you all, you brood of chancellors & your Associates, when you can say nothing, than you fall strait a girding & railing on Calvin or Beza, or some such worthy man.  Chancellor. 
Gentle Cousin, be not angry, I mean you no hurt yea faith. What other inconveniences or absurdities do you find in this Churchinge, speak your mind freely, for I am even bend to hear you.  Woman. 
I should therein either myself abuse, or yield to th' abusing of the word of God.  Chancellor. 
How so I pray you?  Woman. 
I mean concerning the Psalm that is there appointed for that purpose, uz. the 121 Psalm, which being left to the church by the holy Ghost for comfort and consolation in time of distress, to apply it to Thanksgiving, contrary to the purpose and meaning of the holy Ghost, must needs (as I say) be a plain abusing and profaning of the word. And of it be well considered of, it will be found to be more fit a great deal for a woman in the time of her travel, agony & distress, than afterward when she is of strength & in good estate.  Chancellor. 
Yea faith yea faith gossip, I doubt not if any of your precise crew had set down that Psalm for that purpose, but you would have liked of it well enough for all the cavils and quarrels you make against it now.  Woman. 
Think you so Sr:: Well I see that men of your occupation may easily be deceived. But to deal plainly and not to dissemble with you, one especial reason among others that draweth me to dislike and refuse this jewel of yours (I mean your Churching) is, that in yielding thereunto, I should justify you and your fellows in your crooked and unconscionable proceed, that is in urging and pressing your own Traditions before the Commandments of God.  Chancellor. 
And be these the pretty reasons that move you thus to dislike the custom and reverend usage of our Church? Now surely it showeth the waywardness of your conceit, in that you prefer your own will before the peace of the Church, which ought to be dearer unto you then thus to stand out & endanger yourself about such trifles, & matters of nothing, that are not worth a rush to speak of.  Woman. 
No are? Then I say still, The more shame for you to keep such a revel and ado, for such things as yourself confess are not worth whistling: and therein you show yourselves to be right Scribes and Pharisees, that is, Hypocrites, tithing mint and cumine, and leaving judgement and mercy, troubling the children of God and those that ye cannot tuftlie charge with any crime, for not observing your Traditions & beggarly Ceremonies, as Crossing, Kneeling, Churching, etc. and in the mean season suffering the breakers of Gods holy commandments (ask Mistress A. B. else, & a number of known Papists, Atheists, Charmers, Blasphemers, profaners of the Saboth, and such like) to go scotfree and unpunished, as if your whole delight, careand watchfulness were only for th'ob seruation of these babbles and fruitless Coremonies of yours.  Chancellor. 
O Mrs A. B. I perceive is a great more in your eye, well I pray God that you of the holy brotherhood that make it so dainty, do (the best of you) live no worse than she doth now, what soever she hath been heretofore.  Woman. 
Amen say I, and better to. Indeed to do her no wrong as I hear no great exclamation of her, for any notorious crime, so on th'other side, we that are her neighbours, may safely acquit her of any great commendation that she hath for any holy and religious course thereby to draw on others by her example. Therefore praise her as much as you list, when you have done the best you can, she will be found but an ordinary woman: and the special thing that you can commend in her (for any thing I see) is this: that she is as quietly chuchedwhen her time comes, as any of the rest of her neighbours.  Chancellor. 
I would to God I could say so by you to Cousin, condition I had given twenty pound yea faith, & then you might have eased us of much of this trouble.  Woman. 
You may do one day, when you can bring me any sufficient reason and warrant for it out of the Scripture. And if you will but give us a toleration and dispensation for it till then, we will ask no more.  Chancellor. 
You say well, I know your meaning. But in good truth I muse that the Peace of the Church doth no more move you.  Woman. 
You muse you say, that the peace of the Church doth no more move me: And I muse likewise what you would have said if you had lived in the days of our Savi. Christ, who defended his Disciples against the Pharisees in a verier trifle & of far less moment than this our refusal of your Churching.  Chancellor. 
Where I pray you, show me that for my learning.  Woman. 
What say you to the refusal of washing of hands at meat? Is not that as small a matter as may be? And if you had been by at that time, when our Saviour so boldly defended his Disciples therein, it is like enough you would have counted him for a very Trifler, or some busy Troubler of the Peace of the Church, that would keep such a do for nothing. Sure by your dealing with us we can conjecture none other.  Chancellor. 
Tush the Comparisons are not alike.  Woman. 
Truly even as like as may be. The Pharisees found fault with the Disciples for breaking a Tradition of th' Elders, viz. washing of hands at meat: and you find fault with us for breaking a much worse Tradition of yours. You ask us often whether Churching be not a Decent thing: We ask you again, whether washing be not both a Decent thing, a cleanly thing, and a wholesome thing? Our Saviour (you see) defended his Disciples in the breach of that Decency of those Pharisees of that age: and his word doth warrant and defend us in the breach of this supposed Decency of your Pharisses of this age.  Chancellor. 
Nay then yea faith, if ye go to that, ye may take yourselves by the nose Mistress Cousin: For who the Devil be the right Pharisses & Hypocrites if ye be not? Ye are so demure, and ye make it so nice and so holy amongst you, that by the Mass a dog would not dwell with you.  Woman. 
I perceive if a dog dwelled with you, if you could but make him speak once, you would quickly teach him to swear.  Chancellor. 
O that is all your grace amongst you: you think yourselves so pure over other men, because you can a little bridle yourselves from swearing, and yet ye will do ten times worse and make no bones at it. As covetous, as spiteful, and malicious ye are the most of you, as dogs. I know one of your crew who would not swear for no good, and used ordinarily to pray with his men in his chamber, and yet being at a Knight's house, where he had good entertainment, they prayed so heartily amongst them, that for conscience sake they fair thwited me of a valence of a bed, and carried that & a piece of plate with them to the value of twenty nobles at the least.  Woman. 
Well though this peradventure may be one of your legend stories, for any thing I know, yet allow it to be true, what get you by that? one sin you know excuseth not another. These were hypocrites & thieves, therefore you to avoid this danger, will needs be swearers & ruffeans: what physic or policy call you that to avoid Hypocrisy by plain and open iniquity?  Chancellor. 
Why I do not defend swearing to be good, woman: you do not hear me say so, I wish I could leave it with all my heart: It is but a foolish custom and comes from me at unawares, and that many times when I think no harm in the world.  Woman. 
Th'Apostle is against you in that: for he sayeth, Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh: And our Saviour saith, That out of the heart comes evil thoughts, and yet you can drop vile oaths amongst you (such is your skill) & think no harm. I must needs commend you for this, by means whereof you have brought one notable thing to pass in our Church, and I wish for my part ye were Chronicled for it.  Chancellor. 
What is that good gossipper  Woman. 
Why, That albeit there be many Parishes amongst us without a preaching Minister, yet to mend the matter, there be few Diocese in the land without a swearing Chancellor.  Chancellor. 
That is more than you know, good housewife. But if it were so, I do not think but the worst Chancellor amongst us doth more good than many of your upstart and busy headed Preachers, prattlers I should say.  Woman. 
Well, to let that rest as it is (for if there by any thing amiss, we should do wrong to look for amends from you) you see evidently, that th'example which I alleged of our Saviour Christ in reproving the Pharisees and defending his Disciples in their refusal of that trifle of washing of hands, is both a check to you, for thus troubling of us without cause, & a good warrant for us to do as we do.  Chancellor. 
Do I see it? I promise you I must get me better spectacles then, then ever I could yet light on.  Woman. 
Well, if you do not see it, I must needs hold with you, that your spectacles are stark nought in deed: But whether you do see it, or will not see it, it is and aught to be a lesson of instruction to us whom you now thus trouble: That whensoever any Pharisaical hypocrites do strictly urge and press the keeping of their own traditions (be they never so small and trifling) with the neglect of the commandments of God, than it is our parts by all lawful & body means to bend ourselves against them, and not to yield to th'observation of the least of them: much less when the Traditions shallbe noisome, hurtful and superstitious, and derogatory to the glory of God.  Chancellor. 
In good faith it was never merry world since these twattling women became divines. I see I do but spend time with you. And yet when you have said and done all that you can for your life, it will be found (as I have said) but a trifle that you stand upon, whereas the peace of the Church is, or aught to be to you a matter of great moment, and a thing that you ought daily to pray for, if you have (as you pretend) any conscience with you, or regard of brotherly love, with a desire to maintain unity, and to avoid jars & dissensions.  Woman. 
We are I confess to pray for the peace of Zion: For they shall prosper that love her. But what? Is the Church now become a maintainer of trifles? By your speeches so often iterated and redoubled (for you harp still on that string) it should be so: and what indignity were that? But in deed as I have told you the thing we stand upon (if it be rightly examined) is not in that nature of indifferency as you would bear the world in hand it is, make of it what you will either Thanksgiving or Purifying if it be Thanksgiving indeed, it is my bounden duty (say I) to perform it, and a sin to leave it undone: If it be Purifying, it is my bounden duty to avoid it, and a sin to practise it, because it treadeth under foot the sufficiency of of the death and bloodshedding of JESUS Christ, which is th'only purgation of my sin. So that turn it which way you will, it is no light matter or trifle of small regard, as you would have it, but a thing that one way or other greatly concerneth the glory of God, & therein also you seem to me apparently to cross, entangle & ensnare yourself in your own speeches.  Chancellor. 
How so I pray you?  Woman. 
I have told you already, and that so often, that I am half weary of telling it. But sure your mind is so on your haulfpenie, that you neither remember what I say, nor think on that you say yourself. Have you not always called this Churching of yours, a Thanksgiving? and have you not laboured by the title of it in the Book, to defend it to be a Thanksgiving and no Purifying?  Chancellor. 
Yes that I have, and so I say still.  Woman. 
Why then I say for shame away with this trifle and trifling of yours, and let us hear no more of that: For Thanksgiving you know must needs be a part of God's worship and service. And what an impious & ungodly thing were it to make the holy worship and service of God a trifle, a matter of nothing, not worth a rush, or a thing to be done or not done at our pleasures? I protest unto you, if it were a Thanksgiving in deed, that is such a part of God's worship as he hath commanded and prescribed in his word, if I should wilfully refuse to do it, I were not worthy to be counted a member of his Church.  Chancellor. 
Yet still me thinks the peace of the Church doth not poise and prevail with you as it should do.  Woman. 
Hear is a do with the Peace of the Church, and yet when ye have all done, a man may easily see that though ye talk of it never so much, ye use it for the most part but as a stalking horse amongst you.  Chancellor. 
What mean you by that?  
Why, you know well enough, that the staulkinge horse is not to blame for the death of the foul, he doth but only shadow and stand before the fouler while he killeth him: Even so do you. The Peace of the Church (as you handle it) is a notable vail to shadow all your deformities and corruptions. If a good Minister do not yield to your lawless and unconscionable subscription, or if he over skip the Cross in Baptism, Ring in Marriage, or any such needle's Ceremony, then strait you choke him with the peace of the Church, the peace of the Church, and so you do now by us for our refusal of kneeling and Churching.  Chancellor. 
And I pray you in good earnest, why may not these and more than these be endured and yielded unto for the peace of the Church?  Woman. 
If the Peace of the Church were so dear unto you as you pretend and make show of, then would ye never for shame trouble either Ministers or people for such odd things as those that rather hinder then further men in Religion. But your manner is when you speak of one thing to mean another. You speak of the Peace of the Church, but you mean still the peace of your Hierarchy, the peace of your unruly places and offices, the Peace of all your Popish & beggarly Ceremonies, so they may stand still untouched, if ye Chauncelyers and your Officials may be at quiet in your rooms and jurisdictions: Little (the Lord knows) do ye care for the peace of the Church: and that is seen not only by your troubling of us now without cause, but by your ordinary silemcing, suspending & imprisoning of the best and holiest Preachers for these trifles, and your countenancing and allowing of dumb dogs, be there lives and behaviour never so shameful.  Chancellor. 
O (my good kinswoman) we have heard enough of these matters long ago. These supposed quarrels have been answered and answered again, you come to late yea faith with your baskett of Apples now. What a Devil should you meddle with any of these matters? It were much fit for such as you are, to meddle with your spindle and your wheel, and soberly to attend your trades & vocations, than thus in the pride of your hearts to control your betters, and to deal in Church causes which belong not unto you.  Woman. 
I was I thank God busied in my vocation, and so I might have been still, had not you summoned me thence by your officer. I know right well Church causes belong not to such as I am to deal in, neither do I meddle withal farther than by way of suit or complaint to those that have authority to redress. And if the Peace of the Church can not move you to leave citing & troubling us for trifles, whom otherwise you can not charge with any crime, never blame us if the bare sound and noise of the Peace of the Church do not at all move us to yield to any of your trifling & fruitless Ceremonies against our consciences.  Chancellor. 
Well I am sorry you are so wilful yea faith: I perceive I shall do no good of you.  Woman. 
I tell you you may easily do good of me, and easily draw me to the bent of your bow, if you can produce and allege unto me but one only sentence and proof out of the scriptures of God.  Chancellor. 
Scripture? there is nothing with you but Scriptures. No No. It is even the pride of your heart, and peevish singularity of your own conceit that doth thus draw you. Why do you think no body seethe any thing but yourself? or do you think there be not as sober & as honest women as you Churched?  Woman. 
Then I perceive you have no Scripture in the world to persuade me with, your only scripture is the pride of my heart, the Singularity of my conceit, and I can not tell what. But you ask me whether as honest women as I be not churehed? I ask you again, Whether as honest men as you have not denied Christ. Th'examples of the godly (you know) are not to be followed but in godliness, whereas it is the common guise of you and your generation to make a solemn gathering and calling as it were of the scabs, imperfections and bleamishes of the best men, and then to lay them in our dish strait as a choke-pear to us: as for example, if ye find once that Father Latimer and Ridley, or any such like reverend man, did wear square cap and surplus, why then there is no remedy but this must be proclaimed strait as an authentical warrant to all the succeeding Ministers of the land, that they may boldly and safely yield to the wearing of the like attire.  Chancellor. 
And I promise you, It is something I tell you as light as you make of it. Why is th'example of the godly Martyrs nothing with you, and your precise brotherhood?  Woman. 
Yes it is something: but I do not think it should weigh more with us than th'example of Abraham, David, or Peter whose steps you know we must not follow when they slip or go awry. But will you yourselves I pray you (if a man may ask it) stand to the judgement, and be ruled by th'example of the godly Martyrs?  Chancellor. 
I see no reason but we may and aught.  Woman. 
Why then down falls to the ground strait your lawless oath of Inquisition, wherewith ye so plague the Church now a days, judge by Mai. tindal else, Mai. Lambart, and others that suffered for the testimony of God's truth.  Chancellor. 
Indeed Ma. tindal and Ma. Lambart were somewhat wilful.  Woman. 
Just, how else? Thus ye marshal the Martyrs as it please yourselves, when they may serve your turn (be it in never so great ignorance and weakness of theirs) then their names, their piety, and their patience are laid before us in great and capital letters, as patterns to follow. But when they cross you in any thing (be the same never so apparently warranted by the Scriptures) then alas, they were but men, yea and many times wilful men, as you do now most injuriously slander Mr Lambart and Mr tindal.  Chancellor. 
But to leave these circumstances and by matters, do you think it is a sin to be Churched? speak your conscience.  Woman. 
As I have already said, if it be a sin to make show of Thanksgiving, and yet to give no thanks at all: if it be a sin to abuse and misapply the sacred Scriptures of God to another end and purpose than it was given by the holy Ghost: if it be a sin to strengthen and confirm the Papist in his superstition, and the simple and ignorant in their false & erroneous worship: if all or any of these be sins, then do I not see how your Churching (as it is used amongst you) can escape the stamp and brandmarke of sin. And howsoever it may be to others, I do well assure myself it were a sin and wickedness in me, because it is against the light of mine own conscience grounded upon the reasons that I have alleged unto you.  Chancellor. 
Why, but if you like not the Psalm in the Book which you keep such ado at, and be so coy & conceited, that for fear of abusing it, forsooth you are loath to have it read to you, yet your Minister may use another if he will, and pray as he thinks good. So you would decently & womanly come to church at your time, as other your neighbours do, by my troth for my part I could be content to wink at many things, and show you any favour I could.  Woman. 
Then I perceive you have forgotten how in the beginning when I asked you what you meant by Churching, you told me that which was prescribed in the book: For law said you, would not warrant any other. And are you come now to give us liberty to use another, so we would quietly observe your Ceremony.  Chancellor. 
You say well, Is this the thanks I have for my kindness and favour to you, in that I am contented to save you from trouble and danger, to yield a little to your weakness, because you seem to make conscience of I can not tell what? In good faith gossip, you shall fit till your heels ache before I offer you this favour again.  Woman. 
Nay but for all your chafing, I would not have you mistake me: What favour so ever you show me, I will not by God's grace be unthankful for it to my power. But I understood you that you gave me even now free liberty to speak my mind, and that you would willingly hear what soever I should say: and I took it and do still take it, that your Summoning and sending for me hither, was rather in your love to confer with me and to satisfy me, then by any rigour of your law to punish me.  Chancellor. 
By my troth you hit it right: For I was greatly beholden to your Father, and therefore I have reason to wish you well, & in that respect I would gladly do you what good I may.  Woman. 
Why, then you continue this mind to give me your free warrant to speak in this case what I think, and to cast all the doubts and make all th'objections I can against you, that so you may the better resolve me in th'end?  Chancellor. 
How else? In the name of God, speak you mind boldly, neither shall you offend me with any thing you say: For I imagine you can say nothing in this cause, but I have heard it already.  Woman. 
Well then, doth not this (I pray you) plainly verify and confirm that which I told you of before when I likened you to the Phariseiss, uz. That your own foolish Traditions and fruitless Ceremonies were dearer to you and of more precious account, than the Sacred ordinance of God?  Chancellor. 
How so, I conceive not that?  Woman. 
No? Did not you say that for my sake you would be content to wink at the breach of the Book, and give the Minister leave to use other prayers, so I would be content in any sort to be Churched, and keep your monthly and mannerly Ceremony?  Chancellor. 
Why if I said so, you are the more beholden to me for that I do not mean (I tell you) to show every body that favour.  Woman. 
Well, howsoever I may in this regard thank you for your love to me, yet to deal plainly with you, I can not therein praise you for your love to the Church, nor never shall till I see Preaching as much beholden to you as Churching is.  Chancellor. 
Why, do you think I do not prefer the preaching of the word before any other ceremony of the Church, be it never so commendable?  Woman. 
It should appear no by your dealing with our Minister.  Chancellor. 
Your Minister! yea faith your Minister hath no more wit than he occupies: He knows not who is his friend nor who is his foe. I would to God he would be his own friend once. Stand sticking and mincing it at these babbles and trifles as he doth, when he might be quiet in his ministery, if he would himself.  Woman. 
So might we poor women (whom you thus trouble) be quiet too if we would be Churched: Our Minister you know is an honest man of life, and a painful Teacher in his place, you can not charge him with any misdemeanour for your life. He preacheth amongst us with great fruit, and hath won many to the Gospel, and yet for refusal of your lawless subscription beside the Statute, and for not wearing of your surplus, & not Crossing in Baptism, you never let him rest among you, but one while you are doing with him in your Court: an other while the Pursuivant from the High Commission trounceth him: So that ye make the poor man spend the better part of his poor living in iaunceling up and down about the moon shine in the Town-dich.  Chancellor. 
Why, who is this long of, gentle Cousin? Is not all this long of himself? There be as wise & as learned as he that yield to all this you speak of, and more than this for the peace of the Church.  Woman. 
But I pray you tell me, Why may you not be as kind to him in his ministery & Preaching, as you offer to be to me in this Ceremony of Churching? You say you prefer the preaching of the Gospel before any ceremony whatsoever: if you mean in deed as you say, then for God's sake wink a little at the breach of the Book in him as well as you are contented to doc in me: let not your love to me in private be greater than your love to the Church in public. Look a little through your fingers, and pass by as if you saw not his refusal of the Cross and Surplus. That so we may enjoy the means of our salvation in peace. And if in any case you will yield to the breach of the Book, let it be for the gospel sake, and not for a Ceremony.  Chancellor. 
In good faith, I can not tell what to say to you, with being among the perverse, you have gotten as it were a kind of habit of perverseness. I had rather than any gold your husband and you had never planted yourselves in that Parish: why you were well enough before, and well accounted of among your neighbours, and it must needs grieve many of your good friends to see you in these tunes now.  Moman. 
I may truly thank God, as for many other his mercies, so especially for this that ever I came to this man's Ministry (whoms ye so trouble amongst you). I was indeed a Protestant before, and thought well of myself, and yet (if I shall not lie to you) I had no more Religion than my horse. But now I may truly say, that as my knowledge is in some measure increased, so I never made conscience of sinning and offending God, till I came to the place where I now dwell. All which as I must and do attribute to God, as th' Author and fountain, so to our Minister as the means and instrument.  Chancellor. 
Indeed you have made a very worthy increase, and mended the matter wondrous well. And all this is for nothing else but because you are come from Churching to No Churching: what a wonderful cure and charge your Minister hath wrought in you. I believe he useth to Catechize you in nothing else but only in Churching, you seem to be perfect in the point.  Woman. 
Well, I would you could tell how to discharge a good conscience in your places, (any of you chancellors) aswell as our Minister doth in his. His ordinary teaching is (thanks be to God) in matters of more moment than you speak of, and if you heard him once yourself, I make no question but you would say so. For mine own part I never heard him speak publicly of this particular custom of churching in my life, further than might be gathered out of any general doctrine of his. Indeed I confess I have had private conference with him about it, and he hath fully satisfied me.  Chancellor. 
In what sort (I pray you) hath he satisfied you? may I be bold as to crave a copy, or to be partaker with you of your ghostly father's resolutions?  Woman. 
Why you have heard the most of them already, and I have made known to you at large the reasons that have moved me to shake off and abandon this foolish and superstitious custom of yours, wherewith I had well hoped you had been satisfied.  Chancellor. 
Indeed you have told me many pretty things, but yet they be such as I have heard of before. Why, they be the common reasons of you all amongst you. I never had any of you before me, but they have pleaded even as you do, or to the same effect.  Woman. 
The more say I (under correction) have you to answer for, That having had so manifest reasons laid before you so long ago, and the same so often iterated and repeated unto you, there is yet no manner of relenting in you, but you do still persist and go on in your course, in troubling poor women without cause.  Chancellor. 
Why you know my Lord Bushop went farther with some of you not far from your quarters, and made the proudest of them crouch, and come on their knees, enforcing them to be Churched in despite of them, and that two or three years after they were laid. You would think I deal hardly with you, if I should use any of you so.  Woman. 
Now sure it was Bushoplike done of him if he did so. But what warrant I pray you had my Lord to make them crouch in this manner as you speak of? Doth the Book or any Law of the land authorise him to Church a woman 3 year after she is brought to bed? show me that I pray you for my learning?  Chancellor. 
Well, you have nothing to do with that. Therefore it shall be good for you Cousin (as I have told you) to meddle with your own matters & to be armed how to answer for yourself, and not to deal in things impertinent to your place.  Woman. 
Content then, you give me good counsel: But remember yourself, I pray you, that it was you that brought in the Bushop & not I. I meddled not with him till you spoke of him. But to desire to be resolved in some things of you is not I hope impertinent to my place, is it?  Chancellor. 
No, god forbidden, whatsoever you desire to be satisfied in, be bold I pray you to propound it, and I will thank you and do my best to resolve you as far forth as lieth in me.  Woman. 
Why then in this Thanksgiving you speak of, who is it that you would have give thanks?  Chancellor. 
Why, the woman that hath been delivered.  Woman. 
When is it that you would have her give God thanks?  Chancellor. 
When she is strong and able to go to Church.  Woman. 
And not before? would you have her forget herself, and be unthankful till then?  Chancellor. 
Nay, God forbidden, I hope she hath more grace than so. But I speak of public thanksgiving & not of private.  woman. 
Why, but the blessing you see is private, and what reason is it then, or what warrant, or what example have you out of the Scripture, that there should be an ordinary set service in Public for every private and particular blessing? I would feign you resolved me in that. If the Minister be in duty bound to give God thanks for every private and particular bleshing, why not then as well for my husband's fall of his horse, as for my deliverance? I tell you I hold my husband a far more worthy member of the Church then myself, and therefore I see no reason why ye should not cause him to be Churched as well as me, and so all others in our parish that have escaped either drowning or danger of death.  Chancellor. 
Me thinks Cousin you do not rightly consider of it as you should do. It is in my understanding another manner of thing than you take it for. There is you must mark in the thing a double blessing: The birth of a babe into the world being an excellent creature of God: And the deliverance and dangerous escape of the woman. No question but the Church in this her service, hath a special reference and relation to both: In which regard it may well be called more than a private or particular blessing?  Woman. 
Something you have said to the matter, and yet when it is examined it will be found nothing. A double blessing you call it: The birth of the babe, and the deliverance of the woman. But I say the Church in that set service of hers hath no manner of respect at all to the former of them that is the birth of the child.  Chancellor. 
How prove you that:  Woman. 
By the very practice of our Church whereof yourself may be a witness. For if the woman die before her month, there is no manner of service nor Thanksgiving at all for the Babe, though it thrive and prosper never so much. Therefore the Church in those her churching prayers, never regardeth that at all, having prayed and given God thanks for the Babe before at Baptism.  Chancellor. 
Well what of all that?  Woman. 
Why then you must give me leave to hold my former opinion, That for the Church to establish a Public service for every private and ordinary blessing (as Childbirth is) is without ground or warrant. Indeed I confess that if the Queen or Princess of a land, in whom the whole Realm hath an interest, were delivered of a Babe, than I take it the Church had some reasons to make a Public and general Churching or Thanksgiving to God: As I have heard that for the birth of King Edward there was: But otherwise such an ordinary service as yours is, for every private woman such as myself, hath in mine opinion neither legs nor foundation to stand on.  Chancellor. 
O I remember now these were some of the worthy reasons that your Minister alleged when he was before me in Mistress Winter's case.  Woman. 
But what think you? Were they not sound reasons? or are you able by any colour of reason to answer or avoid them?  Chancellor. 
Well, by your leave, your Minister (as holy as he is) played the Ass there egregiously.  Woman. 
How so I pray you? Wherein? I premise you I see not but he did that which belongeth to him in all faithfulness.  Chancellor. 
Why is not she his patroness I pray you, and did not her husband give him the benefice?  Woman. 
What of that?  Chancellor. 
Why then you must needs confess he dealt but badly with her, & unkindly to refuse to Church her.  Woman. 
I see no unkindness in it in the world nor yet any undutifulness to her, considering at what an unconvenient time she sent for him, on the Saboth day morning, and that in all post hast, of purpose as it is thought, to pike a quarrel to him, having conceived a bitter displeasure against him for his Sermon before.  Chancellor. 
Alas the gentlewoman had thought (as she saith) and had verily purposed to have gone to Church herself overnight, but the weather falling out something whet and slabbie in the morning, had it been such a matter for him to have come down to her when she sent for him?  Woman. 
What at that time and hour betwixt 9 and 10 of the clock when he was ready to go to the sermon: Had that been fit think you?  Chancellor. 
Sermon me no Sermons. By the mass I would not have hazarded her displeasure for that, knowing that my living did depend upon it. Why might he not have preached an other time, or have feigned some excuse for that present, that he had not been well or so?  Woman. 
Nay like enough: This is even like yourselves, and fully suitable to the rest of your proceed. What other fruits should one look for from men of your constitution? But doth not this justify that which I have so often charged you with: That you more prize & esteem these babbles of your own hatching and invention, than the sacred ordinance of God? And is it not a strange witchery, that ye can be content amongst you thus to suffer the Preaching and ministery of the word to give place to a jewish or Popish ceremony?  Chancellor. 
O be not angry good Cousin.  Woman. 
Well, ye may see (if ye will not wilfully blindfold yourselves) what mischief and inconvenience comes by this so cross and perverse dealing of yours. For what with the care of the Decency of Churching and your carelessness of the necessity of Preaching, ye have almost marred all amongst you, and brought it so to pass, that the poor ignorant people of the land do think all the service of GOD to lie in Churching, Crossing, Kneeling, and being houseled (as they call it) at Easter. As for Preaching, they hold that for a superfluous and needless Ceremony: and therefore when their service is done, they take it they may lawfully go out of the Church, though the Minister be ready to go into the Pulpit. And all this my good Cousin is long of you and your associates. I must needs in all plainness tell you what I think.  Chancellor. 
Well, these be things that you and I shall not redress in haste, gentle kinswoman. We may well wish and pray for the redress: but yea faith neither you nor all your precise brotherhood can for your lives tell how to help it.  Woman. 
If we can not help it (as you say) yet it were to bad to go about to hinder it (as you do) you speak of praying and wishing, & yet I can not see that you do so much as wish and desire the thing you speak of: Nay it were well if ye did indeed wish a reformation and redress from your hearts.  Chancellor. 
Why, do you think me so far gone that I do not wish well to the Church and State wherein I live?  Woman. 
It seems no by your own speeches. For in your mouth you condemn the Minister for that which in your conscience you ought to commend him for. And what was the Minister's fault, I pray you? Forsooth he would not forsake and give over his Preaching to Church his Patroness, Whereupon you swear, (Sermon you no sermons) Yea and by your leave, when the matter came before you (to your reproach be it spoken good Cousin, God forgive you for it) you took part with the Gentlewoman against our Minister. Call you this to wish well and to desire and pray for reformation and amendment?  Chanucelor. 
Tush that was but in one particular (woman) and for once only that I would have had him overskipt his sermon for a future benefire both to the Church and himself: and what hurt had it been (I pray you) for him to have laid aside one sermon, that afterward he might have preached many sermons in peace? As for my taking part with the Gentlewoman, that was for your Ministers good, if you and he had eyes to see it: to the end that I might afterward th'easilier pacify and prevail with the Gentlewoman, who I assure you was mightily incensed against him, and had in purpose to remove him if she could.  Woman. 
Well, if your purpose and intent were good, I am glad of it, though God (you see) do seldom bless but rather cross & curse these purposes of yours, because you walk not with a strait foot and an upright heart. But to let that pass and to come to our former speech of Thanksgiving, would you have the Woman alone give God thanks for that blessing, or her friends to join with her therein?  Chancellor. 
What a question is that? Is it not fit and requisite that her friends that love her, should join with her in so good an action?  Woman. 
How happens it then that ye handle the matter so amongst you in your manner of Churching, That neither the Husband must join with his wife, nor the Father with his daughter, nor the Son with his Mother, nor the Brother with his Sister, nor they that are most bound in nature and by the law of GOD to give thanks, must not at all meddle with it, nor have any thing to do with all, as if they had no interest in that blessing at all, but were mere strangers to it.  Chanucelor. 
O it is fittest in good faith that they only that were by the woman in her anguish and travel, should be by her also at her Thanksgiving. What a Devil should men meddle with women's matters?  Woman. 
You say well, men must not meddle with women's matters. But I always took Thanksgiving to God to be a matter belonging to men as well as to women. And if men must not meddle withal, what should the Minister deal in it, or why should he be troubled for not meddling with this woman's business? He was not by (you know, at the woman's travel, and therefore you might do well to exempt him as well as you do others: For you know when the Bushop maketh and ordaineth a Minister, be giveth him authority to Preach, to minister the Sacraments, and to exercise Discipline, and not to Church women. This by th'institution is no part of his office, and therefore you may the rather pardon him if he happen to omit it.  Chancellor. 
He (you know) is the mouth of the Congregation. And who should deal in the Prayers of the Church, but only he?  Woman. 
I confess the Minister by his place & function ought to be as well the mouth of God to the people to deliver us his will, as the mouth of the people to God to lay open our wants and to crave his assistance. But in this case that you speak of, of your solemn Churching, or rather Purifying of women, he is neither of both. He maketh show (as I have told you) of Thanksgiving, but giveth none in deed, in so much that yourselves can not tell what to make of it for your lives, as a service that is neither fish nor flesh, nor good red hearing: and yet ye must needs defend it and maintain it, and that stiffly: yea and many times make the preaching of the word give place unto it, such is your care of the peace of the Church. God forgive it you my good Cousin. This is a truth you know, I can not dissemble with you.  Chancellor. 
Well will you dispatch, gentle Kinswoman, and pay the Sumnor his fees, and so I am contented for this time to dismiss you and your fellows, till I send for you again.  Woman. 
Why do you mean then in deed to trouble us again? I was in good hope rather you had been half weary & abashed of this that you have done already. Well, seeing you speak of the Summoner's fees, I must entreat you before you go, to remember that good honest man of your own making one Ma. Turne-peny.  Chancellor. 
Why should I remember him?  Woman. 
Because he was once (you know) one of your graceless Apparitors at Lichfield: And was daily so busily occupied about his fees, and so earnest to summon men for his unlawful gain about such like trifles, as you do now trouble us for, that you know what followed.  Chancellor. 
By my troth Cousin, it was nothing so bad as the world makes of it: Some matter there was, and some trouble of mind the poor man had toward his end, But yea faith we ought to judge the best.  Woman. 
Why did not his master (whom he served so devoutly) summon him at his death to pay his fees? or did he not confess at that time, that the Devil appeared unto him to bid him dispatch and make haste? And did he not thereupon end his days in great misery, to the beholders, with fearful cries and schrikes of desperation? I am sure you will not deny this.  Chancellor. 
Well, well, The man you speak of is gone before, and we must follow after, God grant us all of his grace: Of the dead we are taught (you know) to say the best: howsoever it is, it shallbe good for you to have an eye to yourselves and your own estates, and not to stand thus gazing and gaping upon others with whom ye have nothing to do: carry yourselves peceablie as becometh sober women. For though I show you favour now, ye must think I can not do so always: I am overlooked myself, & thereby you know, can not do whatI would.  Woman. 
The man (you say) is gone before and we must follow after: You do not mean I hope thereby that we must follow Ma. Turne-penie either in his steps in this life, or in his end and destiny when he went out of this life. In either of these I tell you, we would be loath to follow him, and I trust GOD in mercy will shield us from it. We must (you say) have an eye to ourselves, and not stand gazing and gaping upon others: and yet so to look upon others, namely upon David as an example of mercy, or upon Saul as an example of judgement, that thereby we may reap profit and benefit to ourselves, is not (I think) either dangerous or unlawful. That which I spoke of the man was not of malice, I assure you, for I know him not: but for a Caveat and warning to such as you are to beware of the like practice, lest you be overtaken with the like judgement. He summoned for trifles, and so do you. He prosecuted & pursued the best and the holiest men, and so do you. He laughed and gyred and made a scoff when he was told of his fault, and so do you. He came to a fearful and lamentable end, and so (without repentance while mercy is offered) may you. But you are overlooked, you say: if it be so in deed, I am not sorry for it: for I could wish that you and your overlookers were better over-looked than you be, and then it were happy, and thrice happy for our Church. The best is, (and therein is our only comfort) There is one that overlookes us all, and bridles both you and your overlookers: otherwise it were double woe with us. To his blessed direction (with thanks for this time) I leave you. And so praying you not to send for one again in haste (wishing myself at home, and you a better office & occupation to thrine by then this) I bid you farewell.  
FINIS.