AN ANSWER TO A SERMON PREACHED THE 17 OF APRIL ANNO D. 1608, BY GEORGE DOWNAME DOCTOR OF DIVINITY AND ENTITLED, A sermon defending the honourable function of Bishops; wherein, All his reasons, brought to prove the honourable function of our L. Bishops, to be of divine institution; are answered and refuted.  Prov. 8.6.7. 
Give ear, for I will speak of excellent things; & the opening of my lips, shall teach things that be right.  
For my mouth shall speak the truth; & my lips abhor wickedness.  
Imprinted anno 1609.   

To the Christian reader  
CHRISTIAN reader, when I had perused this sermon made by M. Downame, in defence of the honourable function of Bbs, as he saith, & saw that it tended directly to prove, that the Caling of our L. Bbs. (as they now exercise it in the Church of England) is not only lawful & good; but also to be holden, jure divino; not as an human ordinance, their ancient & wont tenure, but by divine right, as the very & ymediate ordinance of Christ: I deemed it as needful to be answered, as any book our Opposites have at any time set forth. For how ever M. D. affirmeth the doctrine therein contained, to be not only true, but a profitable & necessary truth, and that in the judgement of all men, which are not partial & full of prejudice: it is evident, that it is a doctrine utterly false, very hurtful & obnoxius, necessary in deed, to be confuted, at no hand to be believed: doctrine, repugnant to the truth, the word of the truth, scripture of truth, contrary to the judgement and practice, of the prime Churches next after Christ & his Apostles; & of all reformed Churches, since the restablishinge of the gospel by the worthies in these later 
(a) Wickliff, Husse, Luther, Zuinglius, etc.  times: Against the doctrine of our ymediate forefathers, (some of whom were worthy Martyrs,) 
(b) Latimer, Cramner etc.  who in their submission to K. H. the 8. at the abolishing of the Pope's authority out of England, acknowledge with subscription, 
(c) See the whole story in the acts & monuments & in the book called the Bbs. kook,  that the disparity of Ministers and Lordly primacy of Bbs, was but a politic device of the Fathers, not any ordinance of Christ jesus: 
& Reformat legum Ecclesiasticarum, tit. de divi nis officijs. ca 10. 11.  and that the government of the Church by the Minister and certain Seniors or Eldes in every parish, was the ancient discipline: a doctrine, I say, clean contrary to the professed judgement of all our worthy writers, 
(d) whitaker's, Fulk, etc.  who in their answers to the papists, that plead for their hierarchy, with the same reasons that M. D. doth for his, do determine, that the government our Bbs. exercise over other Ministers, is iure humano, by the positive law of man only: the which, if M. D. saith true, is false: and so the Papists are left unanswered: yea a doctrine contrariant to the laws of our land, 
(e) S Edw. Cook de jure Regis ecclesiastico. fol. 8.  which make it one part of the kings jurisdiction, to grant to our Bbs. that ecclesiastical power they now exercise over us: & also to take it from them at his pleasure: the which his Highness taketh to himself, & giveth to all Kings, where he professeth, 
(f) in his premonition before one of his last books.  that God hath left it to the liberty, & free-will of princes, to alter the Church-goverment at their pleasure. Lastly, it is a doctrine contrarying, the doctrine of the Church of England, professed even by the Bbs. themselves 
(g) Bb, jewel in his Apolog. defence. Arch. Bb. whitegifte ag:: M. Cart.  till of late days: when as men weary to hold any longer in Capite & of the King: they began to change their tenure into soccage, and desired to be free even from Knight's service. The newness and strangeness of which doctrine notwithstanding, (to use the words of Socrates 
(h) Plato in Apolog. Socratis.  against his accusers) M. D. hath told his tale so handsomely, & carried the matter so smoothly, likely & confidently; that every word he speaketh, hath an appearance & promise of truth, though in truth, he hath scarce uttered one word of truth. By reason whereof, I saw much hurt was like to come to the Church of God. The papists would be much advantaged, seeing that Antichristian doctrine (even after the renewing and reviving of their ceremonies amongst us) so freely preached and published, tending to the upholding of their hierarchy, from the Pope to the Apparitor, aswell as ours: his reasons being in deed the very same with theirs, as in the answer to them, it shall appear. Others would be much scandalised; those that were in love with their own ease, would easily crouch down like Isachars Ass, and seeing that rest is good, would readily & without examination, embrace his doctrine so pleasing to the flesh: as for others, it would remoras obijcere ardentioribus, cast blocks in their way whose hearts were upright with God, and ran well, & so make themst and at the gaze like the Corpses of Asael & Amasa: or retardare zelum, make them slack their pace: at lest sanctorum spiritus in quietare disquiet the minds of all the saints, to see a sermon of that consequence, preached and published, by a man of that name & note in the Church. These things considered, my hearts desire and prayer to God was, that he would raise up some man, like Moses to stand in the gap, & by some short & sound answer, to make up the breach he had made, and waiting for the performance of it, the news was: that work was undertaken and in hand; but answer, and press, & printer, and concealer of the author, were taken and imprissonned, as dealers against the state. Thus was my soul cast down within me, to see a truth, so profitable & necessary a truth suppressed. I thought with myself, but shall the cause lie there? hath no man that courage for the truth, as to set upon that work a fresh? I saw by experience, that nothing but bands & afflictions abode, him especially, who after this forewarn should take up the gaunt let M. D. had thrown down: but knowing of none that was resolved of it: I cast my counts and summed up my reckonings, & found that my life was not dear to me in this case: & nothing dismayed, I set down my rest, not to be bound only, but to die also for the name of the Lord, & the giving testimoney to this part of the word of his grace. With this resolution I set upon this answer, & through the blessing of God (who will maintain his own cause against all opposition of man whatsoever) have here brought it to thy view: in much weakness & with many wants I confess: (my self being the least able of thousands in this land to manage this business) yet with evidence sufficient, to make it manifest, I doubt not, that M. D. doctrine in this sermon is nothing less, then true, profitable & necessary, as he affirmeth. That his preface is full of witty caluminations to make our cause odious, & ourselves hateful to the wourld: & that (notwithstanding his great boasting) his sermon hath in it no one sound syllable of argument to prove his cause & disprove ours. I have made no large discourses to teach over a new the discipline of Christ: besides that it belongeth not to me to do it at this time, professing to answer so far only as he opposeth: it hath been already laid down sufficiently & at large with proofs pregnant and demonstrative those few of them which M. D. in his sermon endeavoureth to infringe, I have defended & upheild in this answer only, except that sometimes I give him and the reader to wit, & as it were a taste, what might further be said therein. According to his desire & my abintie I have distinctly applied my answers to his arguments in order. Weigh them both well, good reader, compare the one with the other, believe neither, further than evidence truly produced, leadeth the: every such Pythagoras as would be believed upon his own word without authority & good reason, was long since condemned 
(i) jerom epist. 152.  famae nemo credit nisiinconsideratus, quia sapiens non credit incerto, 
(k) Tertull in Apolog. c. 7.  he is not wise but inconsiderate that believeth flying and uncertain speeches, look well therefore to thy evidence, before thou give thy verdict. If thou findest no sufficiency in his reasons to enforce thee to acknowledge his doctrine for true, justly think with thyself, it is not else where to be had, all men know him to be a scholar; he professeth he hath read the chief treatisses on bothsydes, thou hast here the pith & substance of all that all of them can say for themselves and against us. The Lord open our eyes to see his truth & sanctify our hearts unto the love of it. And the same God, the Lord himself of peace, grant us his peace, alwaise, by all means. To him be praise for ever Amen.   

The answer to his preface.  
AS the dead fly, 
Eccles. 10.1.  by falling into the ointment of the apothecary, taketh away the sweet smell thereof, & causeth it to putrefy & stink: so doth a man, gracious and glorious for many good parts, by some his follies; lose the sweet savour of that precious ointment of his good name, and maketh himself to stink in their nostrils, who have most delighted in him. What shall we say then to M. Downame, & what smell is he like to give, who in this his preface, hath as many dead flies almost as sentences. It is directed to the Christian reader, the matter concerneth Christianity, the author a much respected Christian; & yet scarce one sentence thereof, but so unchristianly written, that had not G. D. subscribed it, we could never have deemed M. D. the Penman of it. It was expected of all that know him, that though he writ of the same subject, which other his predecessors have done; yet, as lead by another spirit, he would have taken another course; & by his mild & moderate dealing, condemned them for sharpening their tongues, to make their words cut as the razor, & pierce unto the heart like the prickings of the sword: but he surpasseth, at lest doth parallel, & so doth justify them all. In deed, he covereth with another covering, & maketh another show, than they have done: but when his plaites shallbe unfolded and he uncovered, I doubt not (Christian reader) but thou wilt readily & ex animo subscribe my sentence. Let us therefore come to it. All that he saith in this his preface may well be referred to four heads. The first is his persuasion grounded upon reason, that whosoever read his sermon without prejudice, cannot but believe and embrace the doctrine therein taught, as a truth profitable and necessary contained from the beginning to the midst of page 4. The second, is a description of the singular god, that will immediately follow upon the belieing and embracing thereof, from thence to midst of page 8. The third is a double exhortation drawn from the premises, from thence to the last sentence. The fourth is, his conclusion with a protestation.  
His persuasion he layeth down in the beginning where he telleth us, that he is not ignorant how unpleasing his sermon will be to some, who are forestalled with prejudicate opinions, (whom he could wish he were as sure to persuade, as he hopeth by evidence of truth to convince;) and that if he may entreat us, to read it without prejudice, and to judge of it without partiality, he doubteth not, but that we will acknowledge with him, that the doctrine therein contained is not only true, but also a profit able and necessary truth. The which in effect he repeateth again in the latter end of this first head. For answer whereunto, (not to examine him what might be the reason of this complaint, whether the corrupt measuring of other men's minds by his own affections, as they now stand towards them & their writings that differ from him; or the remembrance of his former passions, what time he himself was displeased with them that spoke against him, when he walked in another may then now he doth; or his fear (being privy to the weakness of his cause) that some will too narrowly sift and try his sermon, if they be not frighted from it by some such prefaces; not to examine him I say hereof but leaving it to himself, not to his pen but to his conscience to decid) I must tell him; first that if the prejudice he chargeth upon others, had not blinded his own eyes, he might well have seen, how much he mistaketh the matter, when he saith, he is not ignorant how unpleasing his sermon willbe to some etc. He cannot be ignorant, that if he hath done the deed he boasteth of, & proved that which he intended therein, none in this kingdom will more applaud this sermon, & gratulate him with his labours, than those some, whom, he saith, it willbe moste unpleasing unto: considering how dear a price they have paid, and stand yet indebted to pay for not being of his mind. A far greater (I suppose) then can be imagined he or any of his syd will ever disburse for it. Purt case, the case should alter, shall we think he or they will abide suspension, deprivation, degradation, excommunication & imprissonment for this doctrine contained in his sermon; as some of us have done for the truth we hold? Secondly, that he dealeth not very charitably, in charging all those that are not of his mind, to be so forestalled with prejudicate opinions, that though, by evidence of truth they be convinced, yet they will not be persuaded. What is this else, but to proclaim them to be men, 
1 Thes. 5.21.  without conscience and care to try all things and keep that which is good? yea to be such, as against light & cheek of heart, are resolved to go on in evil, even sold to the defence of error & obstinacy? we are often thus charged in this preface, but if he be not able to instance, upon his own knowledge in some of us, thaz we have showed ourselves obstinate in some errors, whereof we have been convicted; himself is the man that is forestalled with prejudice: and in deed so sick of this disease, that it may well be said to him, medite cura teipsum, hypocrite, first cast the beam out of thine own eye. For were he as sound thereof as he would seem to be, he could never have charged (as he doth in the next words) all those that read his sermon, & do not assent thereto without contradiction, straightways acknowledging the doctrine therein contained to be true, yea a profitable and necessary truth: to read it with prejudice, & judge of it with partiality. A very hard condition laid upon the reader, and an uncharitable tax of thousands in this land. Thirdly, he boasteth as vainly of himself, as he speaketh uncharitably of others, for whereunto tend his words but to tell us, that he is the man, that hath driven the nail to the head & struck all dead; so far excelling all that writ or spoke before him, in bringing light out of darkness, that all those who wilfully shut not their eyes, must needs, acknowledge with him that for true which is in deed utterly false. Shall we think M. D. writeth as he thinketh? And that if the Discipline we stand for, were not (but the government by our Bbs. in stead thereof) under the cross, and he should be (as others are) deprived of all he hath for holding the same: shall we think he would then make such a sermon, and print it with such boasting, that all must needs acknowledge it for truth, yea for a profitable and necessary truth; or else they read it with prejudice, and judge of it with partiality? M. D. must give us leave to doubt of it; he cannot be ignorant that there are many amongst us, who savour the Bbs. callings so far as to allow them a place in the Church, and therefore cannot be charged with the prejudice and partiality he speaketh of, who yet neither do (nor are likely ever to) acknowledge this his doctrine to be as he saith, a profitable and necessary truth. His reason therefore, whereon he groundeth his persuasion, had need to be pregnant, or else it is but a vain presumption. Let us hear it, I the rather conceive this hope (saith he) because the time hath been, when mine affection inclined by the reverend opinion I had worthily conceived not only of M. Calvin, the author, but also of M. Beza, and many other godly and learned men, patrons and fautors of the pretended discipline, made me suspend my judgement, till I had seriously entered into the study thereof. The which for a long time I did forbear etc. Lo here his reason; would one think that so skilful a workman could build so strong hope (as not to doubt of it) upon so weak a ground; that because himself (prejudiced by the reverend opinion he had of those worthy men) once doubted till he had seriously entered into the study thereof; therefore all others that read his sermo without prejudice, will forthwith and without doubt acknowledge the doctrine therein contained to be true, yea a profitable and necessary truth? Can a man low in his own eyes, so highly esteem of his own learning, as to think more to preveile by one little sermon; then all his Predecessors of all degrees, Arch. Bbs. Bbs. Deans and Doctors, by their large, most accurate and learned treatisses, have been able to do? to build such castles in the air, had more become such a light head as M. G. P. then so grave advivine as M. G. D. hath seemed to be. And did the reverent opinion of those godly & learned men, make him to suspend his judgement herein? so he saith; so also did the credit of the first devysers somewhat amaze Bb. Bilson himself as he telleth us; 
(b) in his preface to his perpet: gone:  may we believe them? did the reverence and credit of those worthies, so far preveile with such great men as these, as to amaze the one, and occasion the other, of long time to suspend his judgement? what merveile then, if the authority, of the same men, & all sound reform Churches in the world, do incline us, (whom M. D. thinketh many ways inferior to himself) to be of their judgement, or as leastwise to suspend it, till we can see more pregnant proofs than have yet been produced to the contrary? And surely, did the Bbs. in their proceed, or M. D. in his writings, use that moderation which their places and profession require; they should deal much more favourably with us, than they do: seeing if we err, are we alone? have we not those godly and learned men of our syd, by the reverence of whom our Adversaries themselves have stood at a stay for a time? And if M. D. proofs be not (as he affirmeth) pregnant and plentiful in deed; shall we not do well, to be well advised, before we forsake that cause, which hath so many godly and learned patrons & fautors, as are sound, admirably sound, and orthodoxal in the substantial points of religion as himself afterwards confesseth? verily we cannot be so partial as to reverence and admire them in all other points of doctrine: and yet despise them in this of the discipline as M. D. and the men of his syd do.  
But in this sentence of his, I charge him with slauder on the one syd, & suspect him of untruth on the other. He maketh M. Calvin the author of the discipline, (as Saravia, Bb. Bilson, D. King & others have done before him) how slandereth he the cause of God, so making it the device of man? that Calvin should devise it & thrust it upon the Church for God's ordinance; what a notorious evil chargeth he upon that man, whom he would seem to reverence? Oh that M. D. himself were not guilty of that sin in this sermon teaching the government by our L. Bbs. to be God's ordinance, which is in deed of man's devysinge. M. Calvin was so far from being the deviser of the discipline we stand for, that he was not so much as the first preacher and publisher of it, no not in these later ages. Wicliff, Hus, Luther, Zuinglius, & others before him, brought the same to light, though not so clearly and fully in all the parts thereof, as shall in the answer appear. That he suspended his judgement for a long time, may justly be suspected of untruth. They that have known him in times past, (from the time of his entrance into the Ministry till he became Doctor especially) conceived otherwise of him, then of one that suspended his judgement in his cause; and that not without cause, if his writings and note books were seen, & he would but tell us, whether he never supplicated to any for the furtherane thereof. But be it true that he did as he saith, may we not justly charge upon him the neglect of his duty; in that he entered into the ministery, and took one living after another and that with subscription (for aught is known to the contrary) and yet held the matter in suspense a long time, & resolved not to be (as he afrerward saith) a meddler on either syd? But to proceed; he giveth us two reasons (such as they be) for his excuse; The first is, he rightly supposed (as he saith) his pains might be better bestowed in other parts of divinity. And why so? doth he not affirm this part to be a profitable and necessary truth? And hath not God commanded to his Ministers especially the study, as of every part of his will: so of this so profitable & necessary a truth, as concerneth the government of his Church, the Ministers and Officers thereof? Yea can the Ministers more profitably bestow their pains & study, then in these points of divinity, that are most doubted of, & controverted in the Church, whereof they are members? Yea, are they not bound to it, when the cause so standeth that they must subscribe to the one, and that the most suspected side, even such as the most and best learned in the world approve not? Whether this supposition of his be right (as he saith) or no, let the world judge. But to give it the more credit, he telleth us, how he heard M. Greenham a zealous Preacher reprove young divines in a sermon at Cambridge etc., for setting up the roof, before they had laid the foundation. All as poor man, what succour is there under this man's shadow? If M. Greenham so censured all young divines for studying the Discipline, whereto can it be imputed, but to some distempered passion, or zeal without judgement in him? not to any sound reason surely, if we consider the matter well. Was there not greater reason for him, to reprove the Prelates, for urging young divines to subscribe, to the Discipline in controversy, and seeking resolution in it? Have not young divines just cause to study it, when seeing it controverted amongst many & great divines old and new, they must notwithstanding beforced to subscribe, and thereby to approve that part, which they know to be contrary to the judgement of the greatest lights, that these later ages have afforded the Churches of God? Is it not strange, they can be contented men should, (nay will they not condemn them if they do not) subscribe to that as true; and yet blame them, if they study the same and examine whether it be true or no? what is it else, but with the blind Papists, to make ignorance the Mother of Devotion, even to believe as the Church believeth, and good enough? yea what else is it, but to control the courses of our own, and all universities in the world, who require of young divines, the public defence of controversies of religion, in open schools, & assemblies of learned men, and yet deny them the study, of these controversies that trouble our own Church, though they be deemed not to befoe deep and profound, as other controversies are; but such as easynes itself (if we may believe M. Hooker) hath only made hard? But the truth is, that young divines endure no such censure, in case they so study these matters of discipline, that they can learn to preach and dispute and rail against them in pulpits and schools: nay, they are the only men, that are judged to lay the best foundation, & pave the readiest way for their own preferment. They only which so study the same, that they cannot but like and approve the truth of them; they, they, I say, are the whappie men, that are overbusye in matters of discipline, & set up the roof before they have laid the foundation. In his second reason he telleth us, he could not see what good would come either to himself or to the Church of God, by his pains taken in that controversy, For he conceived the issue of his study would be, either the disgrace of his ministery among the forwarder sort, if he resolved as no when hath done: or the overthrow of his ministery, if he should stand for that discipline. Wherein, besides his uncharitableness renewed, mark how he discovereth one shame whilst he assayeth to cover another. What else can it argue, but that he walked not in the execution of his function with so right a foot and sincere affection as he ought to have done; had he made straight steps to his paths, he would have respected, not so much the grace of men, how holy and forward in show soever; as the discharge of that office, which God imposed on him, & is to be performed without respect of parsons. And is it any other but a vain and ambitious mind, so to fear the displeasing of some, and the disgrace of his Ministry with them, as in that regard, to forbear of along time, the searching out of that divine truth, which himself affirmeth to be both profitable & necessary? Of as ill note is it, that he refused so to do, for sear lest in seeing the truth & professing it, it would be the overthrow of his Ministert: can this be any better than Simony and intrusion? had not G. D. subscribed this sentence, I could not have thought he had looked so far a squint, & sought himself so much. But observe we further, how he wrongeth those whom he calleth in a kind of disdain, the forwarder sort as though the ministery of those only that dislik the present government, were in grace with them: & the ministery of all others were contemned & despised of them; so his words import, though uncharitably. For however, the forwarder sort, (that is, such as go before others in welldoing) would like the better of those Ministers that approve of the present government, if they were of judgement for the discipline of Christ: yet so long as they show themselves faithful & painful in all other duties of their ministery, and do not sin of malice in railing against it; all the world seethe, how they yield due reverence unto them, & their ministery. M. D. having thus laid down the causes of his suspense, showeth us the ground of his resolution to study it, where he saith, that when of late years the cause was so altered with the time, that a necessity was imposed on him to resolve & profess on the one part: he entered on the study thereof perhaps with another mind then some others did, & therefore with other success. Whereof I can make no other construction but this, an I leave his conscience to be examined by the searcher of hearts, whether it be not the meaning of these cloudy speeches, that when of late his conceited desires & other hopes of reformation in the beginning of his majesty's reign did fail him, & that he parceyved the case to be so altered, that except men would approve the government established, & the Corruptions theirin, by subscribing & conforming to them; they must be turned out of their live: he than began to think himself of the best & clenliest way to take his leave of that cause, and to be entertained of the contrary. What that other mind should be, which brought other success, I know not. If he meaneth that discontented needynes set him a work, and plunged him with a desire of yielding, no merveil though God answered him after the imagination of his heart, and gave him leave to go, that would needs be gone: but let that other mind be far from us to study with. If he meaneth, that single and sincere affection which setting a part all wourldlie respects, unfeignedly desireth to be informed in the truth; see we not how uncharitably he chargeth all his brethren that have in their studies resolved against the hierarchy, that they studied not the cause, with that single and sincere heart that he did? But let us hear him speak again, and tell us what mind it was; to wit, that he considered with himself, first that it was schismatical and damnable presumption to make separation from our Church which holdeth and professeth all substantial points of divinity as fondly as any Church in the world, the primitive Churches not excepted &c. and wherein the means of salvation are ordinarily and plentifully to be had. Secondly, that he being in the ministery, necessity was laid upon him, and woe unto him if preached not the gospel. And therefore studied these controversies, as one who meant if he were not convicted with evidence of truth to be respondent or defendant, resolving not to leave his place, unless by force of argument he were removed whereas others being out of love with our Church discipline, & in affection wholly alienated from our Church-governers, studied these things as opponents and plaintiffs. Wherein first, he speaketh idly, seeing it is not material touching the truth, whether he came as a respondent or opponent to the study of these controversies. Every respondent doth not defend the truth, neither doth every opponent oppugn it: some that defend, daub with untempered mortar, plead for Baal, and build up Babel. others that oppone, do worthily in casting down by the word of God, their walls and Castles. Secondly, seeing that other mind where with he studied, was not to leave his standing etc. What do the he again, but charge others to be such fools and sots, as to forsake their standings, though by force of argument they be not convinced; But what standing doth he mean? was it the pastoral charge of that flock, that now dependeth on him? it seemeth no; for he that left Lotheburie for it; and would have left it for Wiggen, in all likelihood will leave it for greater preferment. What then, is it the office of the Ministry? verily whatsoever he saith concerning his purpose, this his sermon showeth, he studied these controversies as one, who never mente to lose his standing for the truth of the discipline, so long as by any colour, he could elude the arguments brought for it. As for his first reason, that he held it schismatical and damnable presumption to separate from our Church etc. Not to insist upon his high & peremptory comparison, which will hardly be made good by him, if we consider who they are that arrogate the title of the Church of England; the uncerteinty of the doctrine they hold, altering and varying as it is expound dand interpreted at their pleasure, especicially that sit in the sea of Canterbury, and the impugning of diverse parts of the truth by preaching and printing, the chief prelate's winckinge, if not approving, and in a sort providing it may be done impune. Nor yet to stand upon it, that however in many places, the word is sound and plentifully preached; yet partly through the great eclipse lately made, by the silencing of so many preachers, and putting out so worthy lights, which lieth heavy upon many a soul; & partly through the daily letting and holding in, of many dumb idols and blind guides, together with the pride, ambition, covetousness, & voluptuousness of others; if M. D. look about the fields well, he shall find the harvest great and the labourers few, no springs of living water in many places to refresh thirsty souls: many little ones ask bread, but have no Fathers to give it them; others in stead their of, giving stones, serpent, scorpions to eat of, & stinking puddles to drink on: in which respects there cannot but be great cause of sorrow & grief to a godly heart; Not to stand upon these things I say, but granting it, to be even as he would have it (the times of the primitive Church excepted) what will follow thereon, either for his own defence or our hurt? nothing I trow: unless he be of mind & can maintain it, that it is schismatical & damnable presumption for a minister, in his judgement to differ from those Churches whereof he is a member, in any point: or that to refuse subscription & conformity to them in every thing, (provided they hold & profess all substantial points of divinity) be, to make separation from it. M. D. I doubt not, is parswaded the Churches of Scotland, France and the low countries hold and profess all substantial points of religion: & that in them the means of salvation is ordinarily & plentifully to be had; what if he were a member of any one of those Churches, & required by them to subscribe for truth, that the government of the Church, communi praesbyterorum consilio, by the presbytery is jure divino: & the government by our L. Bbs. is not divine, but human & iure positivo, may it be thought, he would count it schismatical & damnable presumption, to be of another mind? And if for refusing to subscribe in that manner, (which if his sermon be true were a great fault) he should be put from his ministery, & out of the Church: might it be said, he made separation from it? verily, if a man must go against his own judgement & mind therein; because the Church whereof he is a member, professeth all the substantial points of divinity; & having in it the means of salvation, holdeth so; what do we else, but make, the Church, or rather the governors thereof, Popes & Gods, yea lift them up above all that is called God? But further, if it be schismatical & damnable presumption, to suffer ourselves to be cut of from the execution of our ministery, in the Church whereof we are members, rather than against Conscience to yield to every thing it requireth of us; what is it in our Prelates, by suspension, deprivation & degradation to cut of from the ministery, such as hold & profess all the substantial points of divinity as sound, & practice them as carefully, as the best of them all (none dispraised) because they cannot, nor will not force their consciences, to yield to some other smaller matters as themselves count them? yea by excommunication, proceeding against them as heathens & publicans, to cut them of from the Church? is this no presumption in them? well, whether they or we be guilty of schism let Counsels & Father's judge. Schismaticus est, qui a comunione seipsum suspendit etc. he is a schismatik, saith the council of Chalcedon 
(c) decret. pr. 2 Caus. 23. q. 5. cap. 42.  which separateth himself from the communion etc. Schisma ab ecclesia separat, schism separateth from the Church, saith jerom. Schismatici sunt ijsdem utentes sacramentis, at dissentientes opinionibus seorsum celebrant conventus. They are schismatics, saith Austin, 
(e) de ve ra religs oneca. 5.  who though they use the same sacraments still that the Church doth: yet varying in opinions, doeseparate from it, & hold meetings a part by themselves: the which I hope M. D. will not charge upon us: It were well. he could clear our opposites aswell as we can ourselves of this crime, they are the men, if we may believe Austin, that run within that censure. Quicunque invident bonis ve querant occasiones excludendieos, aut degradandi, vel crimina sua sic defendere parati sunt, si abiecta velprodita fuerunt, ut etiam conventiculorum segregationes vel ecclesiae perturbationes cogitant excitare, iam schismatici sunt etc. Whosoever (saith he) 
(f) Hipe rius de sacr: stud: non descrend. p. 76.  envy those that are good, & seek occasions to exclude & degrade them, & are so ready to defend their faults, that rather than they will leave than, they will devise how to raise up troubles in the Church, & dryve men from it into cunventicles and corners, they are the schismatics, though they be not divided from the Church etc.  
In his second reason he telleth us, how he considered that being in the ministery, necessity was laid upon him, and a woe if he preached not the gospel. Which consideration I wish more familiar to him, & others that seem little to regard it: but doth he think it proper to him? know he, that others who have laboured in the ministery as faithfully & painfully as he; & have that testimony of loving & living with their flocks depending upon them (though now deprived 
(d) Ad Titum Ca 3.  of them) which he hath not; have seriously considered the necessity laid upon them, and notwithstanding that woe, know no such necessity as to redeem the liberty of preaching with the bondage of conscience, and the doing of those things which God forbiddeth. But how can that necessity he upon us? Doth not the Apostle there speak, of them only to whom the dispensation is committed, but do it not at all, or not willingly through their sloth and negligence? We for our parts, desire nothing more willingly, then to have again that liberty of preaching which once we had, wherein we showed not ourselves so unwilling and negligent as many of our opposites do; and from which, because some of us will not be bound, we are bound in prisson, as the Gatehouse at this day can testify. And (to ask M. D. a question) if he were enjoined (to speak nothing of subscription which will never be levied whilst the world standeth) to wear, with his surplice and doctoral robes, habit, hood, tippet, priests gown and cloak, the grey Amice, & the rest of the induments & ornaments of the popish priesthood, to take upon him a shaved crown that honourable mark of priesthood, (which his good L. to whom he dedicateth his sermon, as it is said, would not refuse (to cross often, to duck etc. in the administration of the supper, to kiss the pax, to give holy bread and sprinkle with holy water, and to swallow many such gnats, all which are no worse than the things required of us (as we are ready to maintain, if we may have such an indifferent trial as the modest offer mentioneth) if these things I say, were enjoined him, would he think that such a necessity is laid upon him to preach, that he must yield to the doing of them, rather than suffer himself to be put from his standing? Many in deed do ingenuously confess, that in such a cause they would swallow many such guatts; yea admit and devour all popish rites and ceremonies how filthy & abominable soever) being washed with english water, such a woe heath upon them if they preach not the gospel, though in deed they preach very seldom. Is M. D. of their mind too? we for our paries have not so learned Christ, but think rather, that a necessity is laid upon all men in such cases not to preach; & a woe not far from them that will preach with such conditions, and admit none thereunto but with such provisoes, especially when such a necessity is laid upon us. Is not that man blind of his right eye, think ye, that can see a woe against them, that suffer (that which they cannot hinder) themselves to be deprived of their ministery, rather than they will yield to matters unlawful: but no woe to them that who deprive us for such matters & forbid us to preach to the gentiles that they may be saved? To proceed, M. D. having showed with what mind he studied the controversy, telleth us, in the next words, that others studied it (being out of love with our government and governors) as opponents & plaintiffs, that is, with purpose to oppose, not yield to the truth, how clear soever it should appear to them: where was his Christian Charity, trow we, when he wrote this? Although we see no great cause in the government by our L. Bbs. why we should be in love with it, considering it is neither the best nor any plant at all of the Lords setting in his vynearde, and therefore in due time to be supplanted by him: And albeit we cannot much abound in hearty affection towards the governors themselves who, having gotten an inch of his Magistie, do take an ell, and not only reign as Lords over their brethren: but against all law deprive, degrade, suspend and excommunicate them, many of whom are not much inferior in many graces to the best of them; yet have we not been so far out of love with the one, nor our affectione so far estranged from the other, as to study these controversies with no other mind but to oppose to the truth as M. D. calumniously suggesteth; however by the study of them, we find just cause to be so far out of love with them both, as not to subscribe to the lawfulness of the one, or give allowance to the oppressions of the other. In the next place, M. D. layeth down the success that followed upon our so studying of it, as that we have sought knots in rushes strained at every gnatt, picked so many quarrels against our Church & ministery, that we have suffered ourselves to be deprived, the land to swarm (even in our own opinion) with Papists & Atheists, our own places to be destitute, or occupied with such as we account unprofitable Ministers, & all this, rather than we will so much as without prejudice & partiality read what is truly said for the defence of our Church. I hope he hath the grace to blush at least, when he considereth what he here chargeth upon us. Is it a seeking of knots in rushes, a straining at gnats & picking of quarrels with our Church; to contend for the truth, & labour to purge out the corruptions of the Church? what shall we say then to Elias, who endeavoured the cleansing of Israel from the altars of Baal? to the Angel, who troubled the water to cure the sick? what else do we but seek to cure the sicknesses & diseases in the Church, if we trouble it? do we pick quarrels who desire a plaisture for health? quid agunt qui resultant, what do they which keep it from the soar? if we; because we would preserve the worship & service of God undefiled? what do they, who will not abide the purging of it from the unclean things of Antichrist? Let Cassander an Adiaphorist be judge who they be that pick quarrels, he telleth us, 
(g) G. Cassander Consulta: act. 7.  that though the protestants in their Godly zeal did at the first sharply reprove certain manifest abuses; yet the chief cause of the Church's distraction at that time, (illis assignan dam esse, qui inani quodam fastu ecclesiasticae potestatis inflati, recte & modest admonentes, superb contempserunt & repulerunt) is to be ascribed to them, who puffed up with that arrogant pride of the ecclesiastical power, scornfully contemned and despised those that rightfully and modestly admonished them. The which, to whom it now appertaineth, who seethe not? who are they that still cross us, even so much the more that in all humility, we sue and seek for reformation of things amiss, as if the Taskmasters of Egypt were making Israel's burdens, the more heavy, the more they sought for liberty? ubi spiritus contentionis veraciter pugnat, veritas ipsa indicat, I will accuse none, let the truth itself show, who be they that pick quarrels. But to proceed; Is it our opinion only that the land swarmeth with Atheists & Papists? is it not the judgement of all, that have any judgement at all? hath M. D. the face to deny it? That many of our places are supplied by such as are unprofitable Ministers, men fruitful in nothing but in the unfruitful works of darkness, that preach not at all; or if they do; their tongues were better cleave to the roofs of their mouths; is too true. And howsoever M. D. here to save his head from breaking salveth the matter, by saying such as we account unprofitable, as if it were not so in deed; Yet God's people see and feel the contrary, and M. D. himself also hath published it to all the world in his sermon of the dignity and duties of the Ministers. But where and in whom is the fault? that is the question in deed: M. D. casteth it up on us, for we must bear the blame for all: but let the matter be carefully inquired into, and the lot cast, that the transgressor may be found out; I doubt not, but we shall pass by, and some others be taken. Who are they that domineer at their pleasure, that scourge their brethren (even faithful & painful preachets) with scorpions, but have not, or at lest use not so much as the less rod against Atheists & Papists ignorant asses, doumb Ministers, abominable non-residents, scandalous & profane livers? nay, are there not more such yearly made in Ember week's, as if the bottomeless pit were opened to send forth Locusts? what rod I say do our Bbs. bear them with? nay do they not, make & ordain them, admit & receive them, continued & countenance them, yea succour & defend then? While contrary to la & conscience, we are thrust out of our places, in which we laboured faithfully & painfully for many years? deprived of our freeholds, denied the benefit of la, the common right of all subjects, shut out from the common refuge & sanctuary of the oppressed, denied the prosecution of our appeals, & offering to pursue them, & to preach for the hindering of the increase of those vermin he speak of? are we not clapped up in prisson, & there kept without bail or mainprize, till we take an oath, or give sufficient caution, to meddle no more in any ministerial action, no nor so much as to teach or catechize our own families, any other parson occasion being present? this is our very cause, & this do the prissons witness at this day: how then doth M. D. lay all the blame upon us, as the heathen were want to do upon the Christians? and how doth the D. play the sophister, in setting down a false cause for a true, & making us the cause why Atheists, and Papists increase? might he not aswell charge us with suffering the powder plot and ditchers? But it passeth above all, that he chargeth us to do all this, rather than we will so much as read without prejudice & partiality, what is truly said for defence of our Church; than which, what can be spoken more uncharitably and vainly; as if all that embrace not conformity, read allwaise with partiality and prejudice; & as if whatsoever is written by our opposites, were sufficient to satisfy every one, that is not forestalled with prejudice, & none had laid it by when he read, but M. D. himself. But whether that which he or others have said, be truly said for the defence of the Church, or rather of the corruptions in our Church, & how we have read the same, doth in part appear by that we have already written, and would do, if freedom were permitted to the press, & we might without peril and extreme charge publish our answers, as others vent & broach their oppositions; they may speak & write what please them, & call for our answers; but we must keep silence or kiss the prissons & abide the censures, while they triumph & say we read with prejudice. Well let us now go on with him, having dealt thus Christianly with others he returneth to his tale again concerning himself, & telleth us what he found when he had studied some the chief treatisses on both sides, to wit, on the one side, certain places of scripture, drawn as it were by the neck to that side, a few straggling sentences quoted out of the Fathers, & as it were with oars wherried by these men (looking as one would think the other way) against the full straeme of antiquities, some pretty speeches & witty proofs, which yet were but mere colours rather than sound arguments; On the other syd, full & plentiful proofs, especially in the treatisse of the perpetual government, from which he received good satisfaction, and as he after saith, would satisfy others also, if they would set prejudice asyd, what a flourish is here? as if Dioscorus were alive again, lifting up his voice in the Chalcedon Council. Ego defendo dogmatasanctorum patrum, ego illorum habeo testimonia, nec obiter in transcursu, sed in ipsorum libris posita: ego cum patribus eijcior etc. That which I maintain is the doctrine of the holy Fathers, I have there witnesses at large, not straggling here & their & gathered up by chance, but taken out of their own books, I am cast out with the Fathers etc. A flourish in deed; as if all learning sound & honest dealing had been in himself & none in the Council; when in truth he had neither truth nor antiquity on his side, no more than there is in these vain glorious speeches of M. D. The answer following shall make it manifest, that he himself & the men that gave him so good satisfaction, (with the rest of their syd) are they who wrist scriptures even worse than papists, allege Counterfeits in stead of Fathers, wherry in others as it were with oars, against the full stream of their own meanings, and that there best & soundest grounds, are carnal policies, fleshly persuasions, bitter reproaches, sharp censures, suspentions, excommunications, deprivations & imprisonments, by all which they dispute & conclude, almost all their matters. The scriptures & Fathers we allege, are rightly understood, according to the Circumstances of the places themselves, & the judgement of the best & most learned writers in the wourld. For the evincing whereof, our opposites are driven to such shifts as is strange to see, even to devise diverse strange sense of one and the same place, some extending, some restreyninge, every one driving to a diverse sense, either manifestly absurd, or so obscure, as if the true meaning could not be attained to. One instance where of, to pass by the rest, let the Reader view well, in their handling of 1 tim. 5.17. & Ambrose upon 1 tim. 5.1. But to go on; the cheefbook from which M. D. received good satisfaction, was as he saith, the learned treatisse etc. to wit Bb. Bill sons: we will believe him, for he hath little or nothing in all hisermon which is not in that treatise; but seeing he that will part with his friend, as the wiseman saith, will find an occasion to do it, & when good causes want. pretences shall serve the turn; I wish him to look to it, that other inducements best known to himself, were not more perswasyve and forcible with him, than these he here set down. And where he presumeth so far upon other men's judgements & affections, that they must needs turn round by the same sway or poise, & stand & fall as it were by the same staff with him, if they set prejudice aside; (for he saith, he knoweth nothing to the contrary but the same arguments that persuaded him, will preveile with others) what doth he else but follow the presumption of error, whose property is, as Austin saith, 
(h) de gene: cout: Mavich:  ut quod cuique displicet id alijsquoque oportere existimet disi licere, to think that that which pleaseth or displeaseth itself, must needsplease or displease others also: but as Tertullian to the Valentinians, so may I say to M. D. artificium habent quo prius persuadent, quam doceant, veritas autem docendo suadet, non suadendo docet, M. D. hath great skill to persuade before he teach, but the truth persuadeth by teaching, teacheth not by persuading, the judicious reader I doubt not will hearken to his reasons, & let go such persuasions. Thus much for his first head, let us now enter upon his second wherein he showeth us what exceeding good he hopeth to see & that quickly, in case men would be persuaded with him: namely an end of this pernicious division against us; & why so? because, though some other particulars be controverted, yet this of the Church-goverment is the chief, & the rest, as he hath sometimes thought, are but controversies in pretence, to avoid the envy of this. For he doubteth not, but if men sincerely affected were right lie persuaded of the government, either they would not so stand upon matters of ceremony & such like of small importance etc. or if any out of tenderness of conscience should make scruple, that they would favourably be respected. Here first I charge upon him the wronging, & that very unchristianly, of many godly Ministers in thus judging of them: can it enter into a Christian heart so to think, that they have opposed to the ceremonies, yea & suffered for them, not in sincerity as being persuaded of their unlawefullnes, according to their profession, but only in pretence & hypocrisy, & to avoid the envy of this of the hierarchy? what is this else but to calumniate? can he be ignorant, that as the ceremonies have been oppugned by the Godly before now, in our neighbour Churches, who could not make this controversy their pretence: so there be divers among ourselves, of judgement for the lawfulness of the hierarchy jure positivo, who yet suffer & are ready to suffer more than hath yet been inflicted on them, rather than they will conform to the allowance or practice of the ceremonies? no, no, it cannot be hid from him, that divers of the Ministers, at the time of their deprivation, were of this judgement, what ever they now are or will be hereafter, when they further consider the matter. Secondly, let it be observed, how he counteth all mattersnow in question for which so many Ministers have suffered, but tristes & (this of the Church government only excepted) matters of small importance, and as he said before, even knots in rushes and silly gnatts: as light accounet do all the rest of that syd make of them, & even so did Harding tell jewel, the things were small, where with he charged their Church. Wherefore their plea being the same, with his: well may that worthy ruells answer to Harding then, serve M. D. turn now. How great or small these matters are, saith he, 
(i) defence of artic ag:: Hardings' preface.  it forceth not. In deed they are avouched with very small proofs: as small as you would have them, it appeareth you keep no small serive about them: nothing ought to be counted small, where with so many of God's people are deceived and scandatized etc. Robbery is no less in a small matter then in a great, saith Plato. A little leaven so wretch the whole lump, saith the Apostle. Alia sunt frivola & innoxia, alia frivola & noxia saith Gregory; though these matters be small, yet the evils that rise of them, are not small; if they be small, there is the less hurt in leaving them, & the more wilfulness in defending them. Christ saith, qui in modico iniquus, & in maiori iniquus, he that is unfaithful in a little, will be unfaithful in much verily the greatest part of the land is weary of them. Thus far that blessed jewel; if M. D. will not hear him, let him give ear to Austin, 
(k) Tom 10. Hom 42.  de minutis guttis flumina implentur, per augustasrivulas in sidat aqua, impletursentina, mergitur navis, small drops make great fludes, through small rifts the water soaketh in, filleth the deck & drowns the ship. Can Hamans' money recompense the King's loss of the jew? no more can these their ceremonies of small importance for which our Bbs. stand so stiffly, ever recompen ce the Church's loss of so many worthy preachers as are deprived for them: had it not been more wisdom in our reverend Fathers, to have forborn their brethren in those things, themselves count trifles? yea to cast those trifles, (I will not say their honours too) into the sea? the wise and skilful Pilot, tempestate urgente, quaedam exenerat, ut caetera salva permaneant, when the tempest enforceth it, emptieth the ship of some things to save the rest, yea though the wares be precious, he spareth them not: do our Bbs. well then, to cast out the Pilots of the ships themselves, & all to save those romish wares, those base and vile trifles; 
(l) Herman. Hamelman de tradit. part 1. l. 4. Col. 377.  Itance propter consuetudines (was it once said to Cassander) audes jubere ut pij viriqui alias sincere docent, eijciantur? and may not the same be now said in english to our Prelates? Is it even so, are these matters of small importance, trifling customs; how dare you then for them, cast out of the Church, Godly men who otherwise teach well and sincerely? But to proceed, observe we secondly, how he faileth utterly in the main drift and purpose of his sermon, which is, by bringing men to the imbraceing of his doctrine concerning the hierarchy, to compound all other the controversies amongst us, so his words show & both his reasons, that either the sincerely affected would not stand upon them, or if they did, they should be respected: doth he not utterly mistake the matter? seethe he not the clean contrary before his eyes? how manic do approve of the Bbs. callings & yet oppose to the ceremonies? unless therefore he will again charge them not to be sincerely affected; that first reason of his, is without reason. How long will M. D. give us cause to suspect he writeth not as he thinketh? we cannot imagine him to be ignorant, how in all ages many profitable Ministers however agreeing in matters concerning the hierarchy have yet varied about matters of ceremony: remembreth he not how Austin 
(m) In his answer ad inquisitiones I an varij lib. 1. Cap. 2.  in his time complaineth, that (tantae fuerunt certationes in ecclesia, de traditionibus humanis, & rebus indifferentibus, ut secuta sit inde miserabilis vastitas in ecclesia) there were so great contentions in the Church about men's traditions and things indifferent, that the Church was almost laid waist therewith? hath he forgotten that controversy about Easter, 
(n) Eu seb. hist. lib. 5. Cap. 23.  when, Neque Anicetus Policarpo persuadere poterat, neo Policarpus Aniceto suasit, the contentions of Anicetus & Policarpe, being as Salomon saith like the bars of a palace, the one could nor persuade with the other? nay, to come lower, are the late troubles of our neighbour's Churches in Germany about things indifferent (so called) cleane out of his mind; & how many ministers suffered them. selves to be deprived of all for them? yet were there no controversies about the hierarchy. His first reason than hath neither truth nor likelihood; no more hath his second, if the expersence of times past & present, can teach us to guess of the times to come? many are deprived & suspended for the ceremonies notwithstanding they have been of judgement for the hierarchy, that partly out of their own sense & feeling, & partly being warned by other men's harms, they have learned to make it a part of their Litany, to be kept from the Bbs. blessing. M. D. we see hath laid a slender foundation whereon to build his success and great good that would come upon the imbraceing of his doctrine, and yet he reareth up many glorious things thereon, & amplifieth the matter by a number of rhetorications from the consequentes of yolding in this point, as compounding of differences, healing of breaches, reuniting of divided minds, glorifying of God in the edification of his Church, propagation of his gospel, confusion of poperi & atheism etc. in steed of many evils growing by opposing in this point, as dishonour of God and his true religion, advantageing popery and atheism, scandalising whom we ought to edify, both backwarder and for warder sort. All which, what are they but vain smokes easily blown away; & serve for no other use in deed, but to make his own way, to come the more handsomely, to have his full stroke at them whom he calleth the forwarder sort. For who knoweth not, that before this unjuste Claim of the Bbs. & division about this point, that there callings are iure divino: & before the tendering & exacting of conformity & subscription so contrary to la: and before this woeful breach made: not by us, but by them that will needs surgere in altum, dommeire and have their forth vijs & modis; who knoweth not say, that before this, there was no such care and zeal in the Bbs. (many of them especially) or other their chaplains for the edification of the Church, propagation of the gospel, confounding of popery and atheism? doth not their carelessness therein, testify to their faces? doth not all the wourld see, how seldom the most of them preach, even now that atheism and popery groweth so fast through their silencing of so many preachers? do they not for all that, count it the least or no part of their L. function? do not their Chancellors, Archdeacon's, Deans, Doctors and chaplains (many of them) heap living upon living? defend they not nonresidency & other corruptions in the universities? place they not daily in benefices, idle idols, dumb dogs that cannot bark? or else such dogs or Doegs' rather, as love all words that may do hurt, venting much corrupt popish & atheistical doctrine, like the dogs in Capitolio, that Tully speaketh of, that barked against true men, instead of thieves? tolerate they not many in the ministery, who notwithstanding their gifts, pull down more by their scandalous life, than others can build up, like the sinner Solomon speaketh of, that destroyeth much good? suppress they not faithful and painful preachers? yea snubb they not & curb they not (so much as lieth in them) every one Minister or other, of what gifts, piety and godliness soever, in case they conform not to their orders and canons universally? & in the mean time let they not Papists and Atheists go away unpunished? are not these & many such like the things that dishonour God & his true religion? hinder the proceeding of the gospel? advantage popery & atheism; scandalise such as we ought to edify? would none of these ihings be done any more, if the poor deprived Ministers would now subscribe that the caling of our Bb. is jure divino? would all this good be done, if this one cotroversy were at an end? why then do our Bbs. themselves begin and uphold, yea reinforce the controversy? why stand they so much for their honours, as not to content themselves to hold their soveregneties of the Civil Magistrate, as their predecessors before them have done, but must needs enjoy it now by a new found patent even jure divino? at least why leave they not this claim, till such great matters be effected; but press both it, and their beggarly ceremonies more than the laws of Christ, and that to the depriving of so many worthy preachers, by whose ministry M. D. himself confesseth so much good might be done? fynaly, why occosion they so many of all sorts backward and forward, to be scandalised, in seeing how they deal for themselves so zealously; for Christ so carelesty? But let us follow him to the end of this race, where he falleth foul upon the forwarder sort: (as he calleth them) of whom he maketh two sorts, to wit, all such Christians in general as endeavour to go before others in weldoinge, and those that published that book, called the modest offer of disputation etc. upon both whose backs he ploweth and maketh long furrows, & leadeth them with heavy imputations. The creimes charged upon the former he compriseth in 5 heads, some of them having diverse horns wherewith he pusheth hard to gore them; one would think, allthings considered, he should have inveighed against the former evils, with their authors and Fautors; but as if he himself were one of the Doegs' before spoken of, he spendeth himself wholly upon the true men and lets the robbers go. His first charge is, that they despise the solemn worship and service of God, and whatsoever good thing else is set forth by authority; A mere calumniation not much differing from haman's, 
(o) Hest. 3.6.8.  who thought it too little to lay hands on Mordechaij, and therefore slandered the jew, to be a people divers from others, which kept not the King's laws: except that his mouth runneth more over, when he saith, they despiseth solemn worship and service of God, and whatsoever good thing else etc. And the slander is so much the greater, because we dare boldly and in the presence of God affirm, that we are see far of from the guilt of this crime, that the accuser of the brethren himself, can nor justly charge upon us the contempt of any good thing set forth by authority, which either we are persuaded is good, or he able to make good. Obedientiam infringit, saith the old Lindvood rule, quisine causi id facit, he is to be charged with contempt or disobedience, that can give no good reason of his doing; the world seethe the reasons of our doings (good as we are persuaded) or else let them be confuted; with reverence & patience we suffer for that we cannot do, doth M. D. call that a despising? is it not rather a fullfilling of the la, so far as it is intended it should be kept? is it not as sure a sign of subjection, & doth it not free as much from despising as obebience itself? ask Bb. Bilson & he will tell you: 
(p) Conz. Apol: Seem part 2. pag. 349.  why then doth M. D. thus traduce us? It were well for the Bbs. themselves and their adherents, (M. D. not excepted). If this burshen lay not heavy upon them then upon us: how they regard authority, may easily appear, if we consider there notorious & wilful transgression of many good & profitable Canons & constitutions; as 
(1) Injunct art. 3.4.  that which requireth 12 sermons yeatly in every parish 
(2) art 44 & rub: before confirm:  that which enjoineth them to catechize their parishioners every fabboth 
(3) Can episc pa. 41 16.  that which willeth them to examine their people before they come to the communion 
(4) In●● act art. 23 rub. before the Com.  that which debarreth from the communion all notorious offenders 
(5) Injunct art. 20.  that which commandeth to keep holy the sabbath by visiting the sick, & reconciling of enemies between & after the public exercises 
(6) Can: episcop. pa. 79.  that which requireth private admonition to be used before public presentments 
(7) Injunct art. 14.  that which alotteth to the poor, the 40 part of non residents livings 
(8) Injunct art. 12.  that which appointeth 4. l. yearly to be paid out of every living worth per annum 100, l. for the keeping of a scholar, at the university 
(9) Can: Ep: p 51.  that which forbiddeth the granting of advousions 
(10) Can epis. p. 25.  that which affirmeth pluralities & non residences to be res in se soeda, in vulgus odiosa, & ecclesiae Dei pernitiosa 
(11) Injunct art. u 34.34  that which enjoineth the abolishing out of Churches & houses all superstitious pictures & paintings in walls or glassewindowes etc. are not these Canons & constitutions with many more, good & profitable & well set forth by authority? are they well or ill observed by our opposites? let M.D. therefore take back again this imputation to himself & the men of his syd, only I confess, that if by solemn service, he meaneth that of the organs in Paul's & such like places; then in deed we do not so highly esteem thereof, as they. His second charge is, that they not only vilify and disgrace the ministry of those that are conformable, though not inferior, but in many graces by many degrees superior to many of those whom they admire; but also encourage by all means their admired Ministers to stand out as though they had rather want the food of their souls, than not to enjoy their fancies etc. In deed M. D. did well to notify what Ministers he meant; namely not the ignorant & blind guides, the idle and scandalous parsons, such as have no conscience to execute their ministry, though with titles and degrees they grow so fast, that a new world must be made, or many of them will fail of their hopes, and want their desired dignities: all who carry in themselves the cause of contempt; and are so marked out by M. D. in his former sermon of the dignity & duty of the Ministers that it is no merveil they be in disgrace. He meaneth not such I say, but those who according to their places and graces take pains among their people, though otherwise conformable. Well, if so, & they be despised in deed, let it be examined whether they have not brought the contempt upon their own heads? are not some of them reeds shaken with the wound; & like weathercocks turned round? have they not in one day preached earnestly for reformation, & in another against it? in one day practised contrary to the ceremonies, & in another persecuted their people for not joining with them in use of them? have not others of them subscribed (as themselves confess) they know not to what? and in deed have many of them so much as read, much less considered those five books to which they have subscribed? profess not many of them, they will not read these books, because they will not be troubled with it? have not diverse others, with as little wit as honesty given out, they will not lose their cocks of barley, there pease ricks, their rye and wheat sheaves for such trifles? and what ever their gifts be, when they preach; stuff they not their sermons full of gt. & latin, Fathers & Fables, outcries & exclamations ag: Calvin, Beza, Cartwrite, Puritan etc. calling for the sword of the Mag: & crying crucifige; so making the heart of the righteous sad, and strengthninge the hand of the wicked? all which considered, no great merveile, is it, though they have not such place in the hearts of the forwarder sort, & reverence from them as they expect, neither in deed ought they if M. D. say true in his former sermon. But if he mean it of such Ministers as being of good gifts (though conformable) do in Godly pureness and simplicity according to the grace received, execute their ministry; (of which sort we know and acknowledge many among us) I will be so bold as tell him that the first part of this second imputation is a well known slander & the frequenting of their ministery by the best Christians in city and country, & that with traveyle thereto 2.3.4.5.6.8.10. miles at a time, & contributing to their maintenance, doth prove it so to be. As for their encouraging of their admired Ministers to stand out, therein, what do they but their duties? aught they not to deal so with them, that they may continue & perseyer in their good cause; & not for love of meed, & fear of need, go back, sell the truth & wreck their consciences shall it not be their sin to discourage them, & by neglecting them to occasion or drive them to Apostasy? & must it needs argue, that therefore they esteem not the ministries false word their chief treasure, but had rather want the foood of their souls, than not to enjoy their fancies &c. as he saith? verily, how false this is, many places witness, where the people yielding and paying their tithes, to their Parsons and Curates who are little better thou thieves and robbers; do notwithstanding to their great charge maintain preachers that conform, and otherwise to their great trouble, charge & peril, traveil many mills to hear them: In his third Charge as out of a murdering piece, he shooteth all kinds of shot, knives, daggers, bullet, hayleshott and all, as if he would kill all afore him: but in truth in the discharge of it, it recoileth yea reboundeth upon himself & his. First, saith he, they place the height of religion in disconformity, how much more truly may we say it of him and the Bbs. (diverse of them) who place it in conformity, the substance in ceremony, the form & that which giveth the very being to it, in formality. Do we forsake the assemblies where the ceremonies are used? refuse we to communicate with the Ministers that use them? do not they withhold the ministers from preaching and administering the sacraments that subscribe not, & conform not? and which is more, do they not suspend, excom: & cut of from the Church for want of it? doth not their Canon decree suspension, for Minister and people both, that conform not to that one gesture, of kneeling to receive the supper? Secondly he telleth us, they turn zeal into faction, combine themselves into a divided brotherhood etc. Cruelly, disdeynefully and spite fully speaketh he against the righteous, & the accuser's heart knoweth how innocent they are herein, let him name us the man that hath his hand in this trespass, as not to esteem them brethren that conform, or to refuse society with them for it: do we not as Policarp and Anicetus, Polycrates and Victor, communicate one with another, though we descent one of us from another in some ceremonies as they did in other? But as he and others writ, so they speak and preach, and seek by such calumniations to estrang from us, yea to inflame his majesty's heart, & the hearts of his Nobles, judges, justices and people against us. Let him remember what julian once said, si accusasse sufficiat, quis crit innocens? if it be enough to accuse, who shall be innocent? not Moses, not Ezra, not Nehemy, not the prophets, not Christ himself, nor his Apostles, upon all whom this very slander lay. And whereas through these & such like slanders our Opposites have so preveyled against us with our Sovereign, (as others by the like did against Chrisostom 
(q) Bilson count Apol: Sem. part 2. p. 210.  with Arcadius,) that they which have petitioned for us, (as others did for him) are now, as then, reproached as troublers of the state; and the more we are sued for, the hardlier both we & our friends are used; I wish the accusers, M. D. especially, to withdraw their hands out of this trespass, lest they draw much blood upon them, & the Lord look upon it & require it. Thirdly, they turn, saith he. Godly conferences into bitter invectives ag: Bbs. & odious censures of such as they call formalists etc. If we confer & dispute of the discipline and use of the ceremonies so urged, what merveil? would not any one gladly see whether Christ & his Apostles ever ordained such yokes to be laid upon the necks of his disciples, by such Taskmasters as plague their purses by excessive fees and exactions, weary their bodies with long journeys to and fro their courts 500 miles in a year; tyrannize over their souls with Canons and Constitutions, set thick and threefold as snares and traps to catch in, and to that end talk and confer about them, that if at be the yoke of Christ, they may willingly bear it, if not, as it is not, gladly and by good means be rid of it? but that they turn all their study of the scriptures in such disputaitons etc. is also untrue: and if there be a fault committed, it is in studying and conferring of these matters to little, rather than too much. The accusation in deed lieth upon the men of his own side, who for Godly conferences, orderly disputations, and grave sermons, be (many of them) nothing else, for the most part, but make odious invectives, give forth unjust censures, slanderous reproaches, filling pulpits, benches, consistories, & fornishing printers presses with little other stoffe, but such and such false imputations of combination, faction, sedition, puritanime, & odious terms of schismatics, humorists, refractories etc. & what else can we look for, at other men's hands, when M. D. pen is full of them? Fourthly he blameth them for being ignorant in the Catechism, & yet to stand upon these things. A fault in deed: & if those whom he counteth the forwarder sort be ignorant of the Catechism, what are the backwardder? but where is the fault? is it not in such as should instruct them better; but disdain to teach the Catechism, it is so base a service; or if they teach it, do it but for fashion, even to pronounce a few words without understanding more like parrots & popingays then otherwise? But let us hear his last slander in this 3. charge, where he saith, they confine their charity to their divided brotherhood, as if they ministered to the necessity of no other, but those that are as forward as themselves. The which is so notoriously false in the knowledge of all men, that all men may wonder, how it slipped from his pen. If men, who by the labours of the Ministers are brought to the knowledge of the truth, converted to God, & confirmed in good, have showed mercy & compassion to those Ministers, their wyves & children, wrongfully deprived of their livings, & exposed to poverrie, or wreck of conscience: have they done otherwise then the Lord requireth of them & the Saints have practised? 
(r) 1 thes. 5.12.13. Gal. 4.13.14 〈◊〉 6 6.  what meaneth M. D. eye then, to be evil because others are good? is he grieved that we live, that there are yet some few left to seek the wealth of Israel? wisheth he with Caligula, that we had all but one neck, & in his hands a sword to cut it of at one stroke; that he cannot pass by in silence, or speak with charity of that benevolence that is ministered to us? or doth his mouth crave it of his pen, have we too much & he to little, would he have part with us? if so, we will speak for him. But the truth is, this imputation must go home from whence it came; even to himself and others of his syd, whose charity, if it were not confined to their divided brotherhood of conformitans, why cry they out upon those that secure us, & speak evil upon the living & the dead both, for giving to us; condemning it as given to impious uses? yea what else meaneth the taking of that from us, which is given to us, and bestowing it upon formalists? Lord lay not this sin to their charge.  
Thus much to the particulars in his 3. head, the fourth followeth, wherein he chargeth them to be dangerously unthankful to God for the contynuanc of his gospel, our peace & prosperity, & to take on, even no we that we have almost we can desire, as if we had nothing, & like wayward children, having that which is fit for us, to cast it a way, because we have not what we fancy beside. Let him that thinketh he standeth, take heed lest he fall; & being down, full & fall he knoweth not whither; men that have known M. D. mind in the days that are past: would hardly have thought, he could have fallen thus far, as to say that we have almost whatsoever we can desire, yea that which is fit for us: we will pray for him: and to this charge of unthankfulness more bitter than gall, and burning then the coals of juniper, (not pleading with God, before whom we must fall down and like the dust and confess that we are in finitely guilty) I answer, and wish him, first to remember how he chargeth us with all evil, 
(s) ingra tum. qui dixerit, omnia mala dixerit.  in charging us to be unthankful & pray him to call to mind what he hath read in the holy scriptures, ancient Fathers & heathen writers in condemnation of unthankfulness, and then secondly I safe to him, as the Orator said to Erucius, accusing, Sextus Roscius for the death of his Father. In hoc tanto tam atroci, tam singulari maleficio, quibus tandem M. D. argumentis, accusatorem uti censes oportere. Oh M. D. you that thus accuse us, think with yourself, what good arguments you had need have, to convince us of so vile an evil. Give me leave to plead the case a little with you I pray, if we be unthankful because we are not content with all things as they now stand, but wish a further reformation, & desire that God may be more glorified, his gospel further propagated, his people better edified, the walls of Zion builded, and Babel, how golden & glorious soever, ruinated & razed to the ground, till no one stone their of be left upon another; we are not ashamed, but will carry this note and mark as a diamand upon our fortheads: 
2 Sam. 6 22.  yea as David said to Michol, I will yet be more vile; so say we to M. D. if this be unthankfulness, we will yet be more unthankful. we acknowledge the wonderful patience and long suffering of our good and gracious God, in bearing with us hitherto; we magnify the exceeding riches of his mercy, in visiting us, with so many & merveilous deliverances: we joie & rejoice with joy unspeakable in the glorious light of the gospel, which (notwithstanding the great eclipse so lately made) shineth yet in many places as clear as the sum at noon day, the comfortable light whereof, we esteem as the life of our life. Nether are we unmindful of God's goodness towards us in that outward peace and prosperity which we enjoy under the government of our dread sovereign, the breath of our nostrils, under the shadow of whose wings next under God, we acknowledge our lives preserved among the heathen: we bless God for him, & shall never cease to say God save the King; what then? are we notwithstanding unthankful, because we desire to drink more plentifully, even our fill of the sweet cup of these mercies and that God would fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness upon us & oue posterity? I trow not: est ingenui & liberalis animi, cui-multum debeas, ei plus veldebere: it is no unthankfulness to desire to be more indebted to him, to whom we own much already. But see, how M. D. taxeth all the servants of God, high & low, from the beginning of the wourld almost, to this day, with unthankfulness; if this be unthankfulness: would David let the ark alone where Saul his predecessor left it? did Solomon let it rest, where David his Father left it? did not Ichosaphat lift up his heart to the ways of the Lord? took he not a way the high places and groves from out of judah, and reform he not more than his predecessors, yea more than Asa his Father had done before him? did not Hezekiah throw down the high places, which jehosaphat left standing? did not josias over turn many things, which Hezekiah threw not down? what meant the chief Fathers and Ancients, Priests and Levites after their return from captivity when they saw the foundation of the temple laid, because it was not answerable to the former; to weep, I say to weep when others laughed for joy? why did Nehemia build the walls of jerusalem, perfect that which Ezra began, and reform the feast of Tabernacles better than all his predecessors how Godly and zealous so ever? wherefore did the Lords prophets press a further reformation upon the King's following, whatsoever reformation their predecessors had made before them? what meant they? were they all unthankful? Let us come down lower; An non perfecit Constantinus quod Philippus ìam ceperat, 
(t) Cesar Baraicus annal. An 227.  did not Constantine perfect what Philipp began; did not Theodosius 
(u) Theod o'er Hist. lib. 5. Ca 20  go forward with the reformation where Constantine lefie? see the stories. To come lower yet, what will M. D. say to those worthy lights and glorious Martyrs? to Father Latimer? who rested not with the reformation in K. Henry the S. days but parswaded K. Edward to a further; to Hooper and Bucer? 
(x) Bucer in censura Ca 12  how not content with the first purging of the liturgy by K. Edward, gave him not over till he had purified it the second time, as the second edition thereof showeth: to our late sovereign Lady now blessed? who reformed diverse things left by her worthy brother; to Bb. jewel, Bentham, Pilkinton & others? who never presented omnia bene to her Magistie, as M. D. here doth to all the world, where he saith, we have what is fit for us, almost what we can desire. Conclude, if we be unthanfull, are not all these? if dangerously unthankful; what is M. D. himself? who in his sermon before named, (which I wish were read every morning to our Bbs. next their hearts) contenteth not himself with the ministry among us as it now slandeth, but censureth sharply & rightly, that ignorant idle & scandalous ministery, which possesseth a great part of the land, & we dsyre may possess no part of it. The truth is, that this crime of unthankfulness here cast upon us, belongeth properly to others who are at ease in Zion, abundantly provided for, gorgeously clothed, far deliciously, invent to themselves instruments of delight, row in their barges, rid in their coaches from house to house at pleasure, think it time to repair & build their own houses, to seel their chambers &c. more princelik than preistlik: and yet say it is not time to build the Lors house, or repair aught that is amiss therein, nay condemn them of dangerous unthankfulness, that will bring one stone towards it, or so much as wish well to it: do you so reward the L. ye house of Israel?.  
Thus as length are we come to the end of his fourth charge: in his fift, he accuseth us, to grow wanton in religion, through spiritual pride, not caring for the heavenly food of our souls, unless we may have our own sauce, preferring the ceremony and circumstance of religion before the substance: upon whose shoulders this tax lieth heaviest, theirs or ours, let the world judge: we for our parts desire no sauce of our own, but we utterly dislike the popish Cooks, that have devised sauces to make our religion savour and have a taste with carnal appetites; and we take no pleasure in those popish patchers, who mar our religious sober & chaste attire, and assay to make her of a grave and sober matron, like a masking minion; and this we count and that most justly, spiritual pride and wantonness in religion. But to prove it, he chargeth 3. particulars upon us concerning the word, public prayer, and the sacraments. In the first, he blameth us: first, for that we will not hear as he saith, a sermon made at a funeral, be it never so profitable; secondly, that by our good will we would hear none that is conformable, or if we do, it is with prejudice, and making the word ineffectual to us, we say his gifts are decayed, his preaching is without power etc. both which are mere slanders. Concerning the former, the truth is, that many both Godly and learned, considering the original of funeral sermons from whence they came; the end for which for the most part they are now observed, to wit, the honour of the dead, and enriching of the preacher; and then how partially and with what respect of parsons they are now performed, for the rich not for the poor; & lastly, how the preacher for his hire, as M. Dearing saith, 
(y) in his sermons on the hebrews.  with a black mouth and a headlong tongue, blesseth the dead, calleth the niggard liberal; the cruel Nymrod's and mighty hunters of the righteous, mild and gentle parsonages, whoremongers and Adulterers, chaste joseph's: popish superstitious and profane parsons, true and religious gospelers; and all this in their eats, who know they lie for advantage, and to please the friends and kindred of the dead, whereby much offence often cometh to the hearers. Godly and learned men I saic considering these things, it is no mervell they have no great affection to such sermons but to say, they utterly refuse to hear any be they never so profitable is a flat untruth. His second is also a very slander, as in part hath already been showed, where the first breach thereof was handled; secondly where he chargeth us, to hear those that we do hear with prejudice, he showeth himself again as oft before, to be an in truder of himself into another man's conscience; thirdly whether we or others make the word more uneffectual to us: let the effects show; four if any charge such as have conformed, with decay of gifts, & loss of the power of their minislery unjustly, I will not justify them in it: but they that have eyes to see, may see it is too true, in too many at this day, & if they see it not themselves, it is their own blindness. But to pass by the like slanders in the rest of those words, let us come to his 2 charge which concerneth prayer; where he saith, that if law did not compel us, we had rather be at no public prayers, then at those seett forth by authority, or if we be present, we join not with the congregation. In deed, where public prayers are read by such silly Curates, as can do nothing but read, & then also slubbered and posted over, that they may post to some other place for the like service: 
Hesra. 46.  such parsons being no priests to the Lord, nor performing any service in him and for him; it is not much to be condemned in the forwarder sort, that they are grieved thereat, and join no further than law compelleth them. Nay I wonder they can come to them at all; seeing many of the vulgar sort, that have little savour of grace in them, distaste both the Sayers & their service, & would not join with them, were they not compelled thereunto. But where public prayer is read by any Minister of God, I persuade myself, M. D. cannot make good this charge upon any one of them. Let us therefore hear his 3 censure which concerneth the sacraments where he saith, we had rather, if we might choose, not have our child baptised, then that the cross in baptism should be used; and not receive the communion, then receive kneeling etc. For answer whereunto, in general, let it be observed how again he sitteth in the conscience of his brother & judgeth him to desire the sacraments as they are now administered, not of conscience to God's ordinance; but only to aveyd punishment; Secondly, concerning baptism, let him tell us, whether he himself that now yieldeth so willing to the cross in baptism; would yield as readily to oil, cream, salt, spittle & the setting on of the cross on the lips, eyes, care and aswell as on the forehead? if not? let him not blame us then, if we would not willingly have our children crossed, none of the other are more evil than this, as that learned treatisse of the ceremonies, showeth 
(z) Scholastical discourseagainst symbolizing with Antich. etc. . But that any would rather their children should not be baptised at all, then crossed, is untrue, we have learned, that however the Minister sinneth in making it, the parent that protesteth against it, sinneth not in desiring the sacrament, & for his credit sake, let him name us some few that keep their children unbaptized because of it. As for kneeling at the instant of receiving the bread and wine in the L. supper: seeing it is so sufficiently proved to be unlawful both before and since this sermon, by a certain Dispute of that subject. M. D. mought have forborn, & I hope will hereafter forbear the raxing of us for refusing it, especially till that Dispute be sound an swered & confuted. Thus much for the imputations laid upon all Christians in general, of the forwarder sort as he calleth them. Now it followeth in particular of them that set forth the book in titled the Modest Ofer etc. whom he challengeth, to have published divers assertions which he calleth schismatical novelties, new found affections, undigesled fancies, the principal whereof were never heard of in the Church of God above 1600 years after Christ, the which, if they were established, would breed horrible confusions, and yet so vehe mently urged by them, that separation is to be made from all those Churches which admit them not; and if they be not granted, they see not how our separation from the Church of Rome can be justified, and do offer that if the Priests and jesuits can satisfy them concerning their propositions, they will be reconciled to the sea of Rome etc. These & such like speeches chargeth he upon them, and in the last page challengeth all Godly & learned Minist, that protest not against them and dissavow them, but suffer the people to receive them. For answer whereunto, first this I may say, that the publishers of those assertions have hitherto (as appeareth by that their modest offer not yet accepted) been more ready to prove them to be no such schismatical novelties, new found assertions, new undigested fancies, as he calleth them, than he or any of his side are, to make good this charge. Secondly, how confidently soever they avouch them; yet in the conscience of M. D. himself & the rest of his side, (such as are indifferent at lest) they are as far (if not further) from joining with the Papists as some Prelates & their Proctors, utterly abhorring their abominable idolatries, detestable heresies, vain devices & inventions, superstitions, rites & ceremonies stolen from jews or Gentiles, unfeynedly hating that whore of Babylon, that sea of Antichrist, that mother of fornication, died read with the blood of the Saints; yea detesting head & tail, root & branch of popery, being in deed of the number, of those (whom Bb. Bilson 
(a) Cont. Apol. Sem. pa. 22.  commendeth,) who are so far from admitting the full dose of Popish heresies, that by no means they can diieste one dram of their ceremonies; and of those, who (as D. Fulk 
(b) Retent. against Bristol pa. 98.  saith) abhor whatsoever hath but a show of popery. Now they being such men in deed, and that in the consciences of our adversaries, though they in the conscience of the truth of those assertions, resolutely deliver, that if our Prelates can maintain their dignities, pre-eminence & majorite of rule, which now they exercise over us, to be jure divino, and that there be Church's Diocesan, Provincial & national, founded in the word: it will then follow by as good reason, that there is a Church universal, and so one universal Pastor to be set over all; which being the ordinance and institution of God, is not to be rejected for the faults of men: M. D. might have spared these reproaches, & spent his speech and pen much better, in showing how the consequence is not good, & that the one ought to be received, the other in no sort to be admitted; so had he done God & his Reader good service, & his brethren the less wrong, which is so much the greater, for that divers of these imputations were removed by their own answer in that modest offer 
(c) In their answer to the 11 opposition pag 38  & the rest answered by word of mouth before the high Commission at Lambeth, before M. D. either preached or printed this Sermon, yea the assertions themselves proved in a former book of M. H. I. for any answer & proof they have yet made to the contrary.  
As for his challenging of all them who dissavowe not those assertions, & protest not against them, I will only ask him, what he meaneth to beat himself and the rest of his side so sound. It is well known what corrupt and unsound doctrines have been lately preached & printed here in England, as that the scriptures contain not all things necessary to be known to salvation; that they are not the only rule of all good and evil in the actions of men; that it is not to be inquired whether Christ be in the Sacrament by Consubstantiation or Transubstantiation, & that it can no ways hinder or further us however it stand. Whereof see M. Hooker 
(d) lib. 1. pa 88 lib. 2. pa 122. lib. 5 pa. 176. . That the keeping of one day in seven is ceremonial, & observed now de iure humano only, see D. Howsons' serm. upon Ps. 118, page 20. That Divorces are a thoro only & not a vinculo, & that the innocent party after divorce, may not marry again. Thes. Edit. Oxon. Anno 1602. The which (with many more concerning Christ's dessention into hell; the state of Infants that die unbaptised, & such like) are not approved for Canonical truths; why then doth MASTER DOCTOR, yea and the Prelates and the rest of their Chaplains, protest against them, dissavowe them? Why are the people suffered to receive them as oracles? Thus much for his second head and the several branches of it; let us now examine the third, and both the exhortations in it. The first is to unity and peace, laid down in many words, the brief whereof is, that we would find arguments to reunite ourselves, & if the proofs he hath brought in his sermon overweye our reasons, we would ingeniously acknowledge the truth. And because he thinks, that fear of discredit may hinder it, he taketh it away by three reasons; first, from the remembrance of man's common frailty, which is subject to over sight: Secondly from the reverend opinion worthily conceived of M. Calvin, Beza and other Divines. Thirdly, from the conceit of the good effects of the Discipline desired, & evil of the established; In this first exhortation I most willing join with him, and do earnestly pray him, and charge him in the L. as he will answer it at that last and dreadful day; that he would in deed seek the peace of Zion, and be as desirous to use means to reunite himself and the rest to us, and the reformed Churches; as he hath been in this Sermon overbusy in seeking reasons to disjoin himself and others from us, and them; and that he would weigh in the balance of an unpartial judgement the answers brought to his proofs, and if he find them to overweigh his reasons, he would give glory to God, by acknowledging ingenuously so profitable, and as these times are, so necessary a truth. And that according to his own doctrine in his former Sermon, of the great necessity of the sound and sincere preaching of the Gospel, he would by all means labour, that it may have free passage, that the people which perish for want of knowledge, may be taught the way of salvation, that all true labourers in the word and doctrine, may have the double honot he speaketh of, & be cheerished as bees in the hive; & that all Loy terers may be chased from it as drones; that vain titles may not answer for painful offices & duties: that garments, compliments & shadows may not be pressed and preferred before substances, that the hearts of the righteous may be made no longer sad for well-doing, nor the hands of the wicked confirmed & strenghtned in evil. This is the ready way to true peace & unity, by this means we shall meet together in one, united & reunited one to another: godliness will flourish, atheism & papism will be put to flight, the popish hope & expectation of a change will be crushed, the mouths that speak proud things willbe stopped, God will be our God, our Shield, our Buckler, our Castle and Defence, we shallbe his people, & shall not need to fear any malice of the adversaries how many, how mighty, how cruelly & maliciously, set & bend against us soever they be: much less the fear of he speaketh of. Where because as it seemeth, he judgeth of our estate, by the feeling he hath of his own pull'st, it shall not be amiss to return him home his own reasons with exchange of a few words: and therefore do tell him, first he shall not need to fear discreditt, by making open acknowledgement of his errors, discovered in this answer & the hurt he hath done thereby: For the best may err, & it is a work of grace from God & credit with men to confess them. If it were a discreditt: yet it shall be good for him with jerom plus conscienciae, quam nomini defer, to respect his conscience more than his credit. The reverend opinion we have worthily conceived of those worthy divines, hath moved us in deed the rather to embrace the discipline we stand for: & we had good reason for it seeing God hath blessed them so exceeding abundantly, in all spiritual knowledge and understanding, that (their & our adversaries being judges) they are found admirably sound & orthodoxal in the substantial points of religion. Yet have we not so relied upon their creditts, as not to search into, & examine upon what grounds they & we stand as too many of the other syd, who in their simplicity (presuming upon the wisdone and sincerity of the Bbs. whom they supposed would require nothing, but what they might safely yield unto) have relied on their creditts & put to their hands & names, they knew not to what; that fault therefore which in this second reason he extenuareth in us, is greater in them & had the more need be confessed by them. As for the effects of both which in his 3. reason he speaketh of, we must needs acknowledge they have had their effects with us.  
The unspeakable good, which that discipline, that he calleth new & we old & ancient, hath yielded to the Churches imbraceing it, the which also, we are persuaded, it will afford us whenever we receive it, cannot but work effectually in us an earnest desire & longing after it; as the manifold corruptions in doctrine & manners, taxes, troubles and vexations for well doing, whether arising from the personal defaults of the governors, or nature of the government itself; (not here to be disputed of) but cleaving so inseparably to it, that so long as the one remeineth we cannot expect any freedom from the other; hath made the Israel of God to groan unto him for ease & deliverance from it.  
As for the horrible confusions, which would inevitably follow if the discipline (as he sarcastically calleth it) of the ne west edition were established, whereby he would lessen the corruptions of our times; as he speaketh of that he knoweth not: so when he telleth us what they are, he shall receive his answer. Thus much for his first exhortation, his second followeth, to wit, that in cause his arguments in this sermon, through our prejudice & partiality seem light to us, and we yield not to them; that then our answers may be distinctly applied to every argument in order, with pregnant & demonstrative proofs, & then he will acknowledge his error, only he desireth Christian & modest dealing, not such as is in that book called, the Christian & modest offer. Wherein, (to pass by the repeating of some things before spoken of, here again mentioned, & namely the slander of Christ discipline, in saying it was never heard of till now of late, & that our government by Bbs. hath been perpetually observed in the Church ever since the Apostles times, the falsehood of both which points hath been & shallbe at large discovered) we have 3 things to be observed: first a disyre of an answer; 2. the conditions required; 3. a promise. If we turn not with him, his desire is, we would return him an answer, a distinct answer to all his arguments in order. So do the Doctors of Oxford in their answer to the petition of the 1000 Ministers; so doth G. P. in his last book, where he undertaketh the answering of all that can be said in these causes. And M. Hooker in his preface before his first book of politics, yea Bb. Barlowe himself preaching upon Acts 20 28 for the government established, much of the same that M. D. doth in this sermon, in his epistle before it, professeth that if there shall an answer be made thereunto with modesty and learning, nothing shallbe more welcome, & that, to avouch & make it good; that the said episcopal calling is unlawful, were a labour worthy the traveil & much desired of the Bbs. All which is done, if not by the appointment & commandment of the Bbs. themselves; yet by their consent & with their good allowance, their books being seen & allowed, & some of them commended & commanded to be published, as they print themselves in their first pages. Wherein let it be considered how injuriously we are dealt with: first they deny us all means to publish our answers, taking from us the liberty of the press, & punishing printer & those whom they suspect for authors, not sparing them that will not bettaie them: whosoever considereth these dealings may justly suspect, the Bbs & their chaplains are combined together, the one to set snares & draw us into them, the other to catch and crush us: may I not say to them as jerom 
(e) Hieron. August. Tom. 2.  once said, why are we blamed for writing, is the fault in us or in yourselves that provoke us, are we not compelled to defend ourselves in our just proceed? you have brought us to a fair pass, if we hold our peace, you hold us guilty; if we answer, we are judged enemies, as jerom was, & punished for answering as jeton was not. A hard condition of each syd, but of the two, we will choose the easier, rather then by silence to betray the truth, by just apology, what ever it cost us, to maintain it, if you will have us to desist from answering; do not you propound against us, lay you aside your swords, we will soon lay by our targetts: otherwise if though you first provok us to speak and then punish us; know you it is not the fear of punishment that shall fright us, the truth, which is the life of our life, is more dear unto us. Thus much for his desire or challenge, his conditions follow and they are two. In the first he requireth that we distinctly apply our answers to every of his arguments in order, with proofs pregnant and demonstratyve. Which I acknowledge but reason; and had he dealt so with us in his sermon, we should have given him no answer: but his carrying away the matter in triumph, with discourses, guesses, fancies, counterfeit writers, witnesses borne out of one time, not old enough by 2 or 3 hundred years (some of them) to give witness to his cause, his forced interpretations of scriptures and Fathers devised of purpose, and with great stream of wit, to put by the truth, his equivocations, frivolous and lose collections, whereof we have good store in his sermon, (as their answer shall show) none of which will bear a syllogism, nor abid the hammering upon the right anvil: these courses I say can we not allow for proofs pregnant and demonstratyve. As for this answer, I refer it to the Reader to judge whether the demonstrations therein, be not sound, the proofs pregnant, and the arguments strongly grounded upon the scripture, with plain interpretations, & such as have consent, not of some few old and new writers only: but almost of all divines sound and orthodoxal in all substantial points of religion: yea admirable for their writings in questions twixt us and the papists. diverse of whose answers are applied to M. D reasons (which he borrowed of the papists) and therefore not easily to be replied to by him, nor departed from by us. In his second Condition, he requireth more Christian and modest dealing, than in that book called the Christian & modest offer, which faith he, notwithstanding that title is full of odious Censures, proud & scornful speeches, unchristian & immodest provocations great bitterness & gall etc. If it should be so, which neither hath he showed, nor can I acknowledge, yet let the Christian reader compare that their book, with this his preface, and I doubt not but he will say turpe est doctori etc. it is a foul fault in a teacher, to be deeplier guilty of the fault himself, than the party he blameth. I for my part, when I read it, thought of the Philosophers 
(f) Diog. Laert: in Diogene  censuring and checking of such as offered sacrifice for health, and at their very sacrificing did banquet riotously against health: & of our regrators who have double waits & balances, some for buying & some for selling. The Lord give us more charity in our hearts then only to upbraid others with the want of it, & not feel our own want in the practice. Thus are we come to his promiss, that he will acknowledge his error, the which if it be aswell performed as promised, we may say to him as Cyprian to Cornelius, though he miss of the first degree of happiness, which is, not to offend; yet it shallbe well with him that he hath met with the second, uz. having don-amisse to acknowledge it. And shallbe glad to acknowledge him for none of those, who convinced of error, blush not to say, haud scio an ista verasunt, fortassis non multum absunt a veris, sed tamen libet ire contra. It may be it is not untrue that you say: but yet I like not to follow it. I must go against it. And to take M. D. by the hand, if this answer satisfy him not, but shall seem too light in comparison of his sermon, let him lay open the vanity & bring the insufficiency thereof to light, I dare promis in the name of the rest, we will (as jerom said to Ctesiphon) rather revoak our errors, then persist in a wrong sentence. And thus are we come to his 4. & last head: to wit, the conclusion with protestation: which is, that what he hath delivered either in his preface or sermon, is that which in his conscience he is verily persuaded to be the truth. Whereunto what shall I say? I would rather have thought, he had this once done that, which many others have often done before him; & from the doing whereof the Fathers (as jerom 
(g) Jeron: Apol: pro lib. contra jovin; Cap: 4.  noteth) themselves in the heat of their contentions, were not alwaise free, non quod sentiunt, sed quod necesse est dicunt, adversus ea quae dicunt gentiles, that he had spoken, not what in his conscience he thought to be the truth, but, quod necesse est dicere contra fratres, that which the cause he undertook necessarily drew him; to speak against his brethren: but seeing in charity which believeth all things, I must herein credit him, I have no more to say, but that his conscience is blind, or was a sleep when he wrote this sermon, wherein are contradictories, both which cannot be true. And so with the like protestation, & commendation of him to the grace of God, I end with the words of Cyprian to Florentius: 
(h) lib. 4 epist. 9  habes tu literas meas & ego tuas, in die judicij ante tribunal Christi utraeque recitabuntur. I have your writings both sermon & preface, you have my answers, (both according to the persuasion of our consciences) & both to be recited before the tribunal of Christ. The Lord grant, that knowing that terror of the Lord, we so persuade men, as we may approve ourselves to God & the consciences of his Children Amen.  
FINIS   

Errata in the Preface.  
p. 3. l. 19 read, a doctrine. p 4. in mark book. p. 11. l. 29. good, that ibid. l. 30. the midst. p. 12. l. 17. way then. p 13 l. 15 that we p. 17. l. 22. after controversy, add then young Divines for studying that controversy, p. 20. l. 19 if he p: 28. l 10. upon any other occasion ibid. l. 14. very case. p. 29. l. 26. man p. 30. l. 2. deprivations, degradations. p. 31. l. 10. amongst us. p. 32 l. 22. angustas rimulas p. 36. l. 20 loadeth p. 37. l. 9 put Lindwood in mark. ibid. l. 20. heavier p. 39 l. 6. knew not p. 43. l. 20 fall & p 45. l. 2, velle ibid. l in mark. Baronius p. 46. l. 26. at p. 48. l. 4. first branch, p 49. l 28. assertions p. 50. l. 28 confidence p. 51. l. ult. not M D. p. 52. l. ult. Drones p. 54. l. 25. in case.  

In the rest of the book.  
p. 3 l. 16 great p. 20 l. 19 because p. 35 l 12 presbyters ibid. 29 Elders p 65 l. 20 here cited p. 66 l 4.4.5.6 or ibid. 10 great cities p. 67 l. 7 testimony of writers ibid. l. 33 Thirdly D Fulck, p 68 l. 1; Heron. ibid., l. 20 of the M p 69 l 23 5 Sections ibid. 27 draining it p. 70 l. 1 holds ibid. l. 4 overweening p. 71 l. 22 could the p ibid. l. 32 I mistake ibid. l 34 in the end p. 72 l 32 I say ibid. 34 I confess ib l. 35 I say p 75 l. 12 M. D. giveth p. 76 l 13 over Cities and D. p. 78 l. 3 if I ibid. l. 9 I trouble ib. l. 23 Apostles p. 79 l. 1 I may ib. l. 19 policy ib l. 24 primitive p. 80 l. 3 towards ib. l. 33 therefore which p, 86 10 but to p, 88 16 strongly p, 97 l. 32 are 2 l nes to much p. 106 l, 2 being lost p, 111 l, 27 diocesan p, 115 l. 22 not to the ib. l. 28 so ordered p, 117 l, 7 93 p, 119 l, 12 95 p, 124 l, 1 Sedulius ib, l, 2 Episcopus ib, l, 5 Medina ib, l, 9 presbyters p, 125 l, ult. in all the p, 133 l, 19 more cleanly p, 135 l, 13 this to the p, 146 19 we heard p. 14 8 l, 27 that word p, 149 l, 2 in office p, 153 l, 5 so it was p, 15 ● l, 29 concluded p, 160 l, 21 consecration p 161 l, 29 Basil, where he was p. 16 21, 23 she ever.