Th'overthrow OF stage-plays, By the way of controversy betwixt D. Gager and D. Rainoldes, wherein all the reasons that can be made for them are notably refuted; th'objections answered, and the case so cleared and resolved, as that the judgement of any man, that is not froward and perverse, may easily be satisfied. Wherein is manifestly proved, that it is not only unlawful to be an Actor, but a beholder of those vanities. Whereunto are added also and annexed in th'end certain latin Letters betwixt the said Master Rainoldes, and D. Gentiles, Reader of the Civil Law in Oxford, concerning the same matter. 1599 The Printer to the Reader. THe vanity and unlawfulness of Plays and Interludes hath been often spoken against by the holy men of God. The danger and hurt that cometh by them hath been plainly laid open by sundry fruitful treatises of this our age. Farther it seemeth that the Lord himself by sundry his visible judgements from Heaven, hath pronounced a sensible vae against them even in the face of the world. Witness Paris Garden and other places where diverse have been grievously hurt, wounded, and maimed; and some by lamentable death and destruction utterly cut of and consumed. These and such like warnings and examples going before should (a man would think) have been a fearful precedent to the succeeding age that came after. But alas our practice showeth it to be far otherwise, Th'usual flocking and gadding that we see daily before our eyes to these Playhouses and idle places of intercourse (many leaving their houses and sundry necessary duties unperformed, yea not sparing the very Sabath itself, nor fearing the profanation thereof, so they may therein serve their unruly appetites and affections) doth sufficiently descry a far of of what metal we are made, and wherein the treasure of our heart consisteth. Th'israelites that were so backward and unwilling to serve the Lord and to follow his ordinances, were yet willing enough Exod. 〈◊〉. (we see) to spare their earrings and most precious juells to the furtherance of Idolatry & worshipping of a Caulf. This is truly, good Reader (I speak it with grief) the very case and disease of to many of us at this day. There is nothing in a manner tedious and burdensome unto us but the furtherance of holy Religion, and the Christian practice of the same: on th'other side there is nothing commonly so dear and of price unto us, but the love of our vanities and fleshly delights can easily make it melt and consume. Move men to contribute any thing to the relief of God's Saints, or to the re-edifying of a decayed Church and place of prayer, alas they have in a readiness without study a whole budget full of lets and excuses, able to drown and extinguish a better man's devotion than theirs. Why, they give forsooth, in their own parishes; they have a great charge at home, or else they are so indebted and behind hand, that they can not &c. And yet to the maintenance of their pleasures, or to nouzle themselves in their vanities (whether it be in apparel, gamening, gadding to plays, masking, dancing, bellicheare, shows, or such like.) It is wonder to see how cheerfully they can untie their purse-strings without respect either of parish, home charge, debt or anything else. The young man in the Gospel went away sorrowful and mourning, but when? When our Saviour bade him, Go sell all Mat. 15. 21. that he had, and follow him. Wherein if we mark the words well, the holy Ghost seemeth to lay down unto us that the young man's grief did arise not only from this, in that he was to departed with his substance and wealth, which he loved so dearly, but also from this that he must departed withal to so base, so hard, and dangerous an end as he imagined, namely To follow Christ, wherein he saw there was no earthly comfort and felicity to be hoped for. For if our Saviour had enjoined him to sell that he had for his better attendance on Caesar's Court, or for his preferrment to any place of credit or commodity, like enough it would not have gone so nigh him, nor have been any such gall or coresie to his heart, but, To sell all and follow Christ, this was the stinger that made him thus to hang down his head, to look droopingly, and to fling away thus inwardly wounded and discontented. And hath not this young man to many followers and successors in this age of ours? or, are there not Israelites enough among us ready to give any thing to the golden Caulf, and repining at every thing that they should departed withal to the good of God's Church? Do we not see before our eyes, how he that can hardly be drawn to spare a penny in the Church, can yet willingly and cheerfully afford both pence and taster, enough for himself and others at a play? Nay more, are there not some that never gave groat in their lives to the furtherance of any good cause without grudging, and yet to feed and foste●… themselves in their vanities and superfluities, have full gallantl●… spent themselves and their patrimony in all manner of riot and licentiousness? The Lord lay not this sin to their charge bu●… humble them to repentance before the day of his wrath. This treatise therefore of that thrice Reverend man Maiste●… D. Rainoldes, against stage Plays (being a notable looking glass for such cold Christians as these, and coming from 〈◊〉 man of those rare and incomparable gifts, envied and yet admi red of his very enemies for his learning, judgement, and piety▪ falling by God's providence into my hands, I thought it not my part, good Reader, (though it should be in some respect offensive t●… th' Author himself) to conceal and keep back from thee in re guard of the public benefit that may thereby arise to the Church of God: And so much the rather, in that the matter herein laie●… down, is handled in another sort by way of controversy, and far otherways canvased both by sound arguments, divine and human authorities, then to my knowledge hath been done by an man that ever wrote in that cause before. His adversary Master D. Gager is likewise, I understand, a man of gifts, a good Scholar, and an honest man, and (as it should seem by Master Rainoldes his several answers and replies) hath said more for the defence of Plays than can be well said again by any man that shall succeed or come after him. So that the cause being thus wittily and scholar like maintained on th'one side, for, and in defence of plays, and yet in the end all this rampire of defence quite overthrown and laid flat to th'earth by an unresistible battery of profound and unanswerable arguments and resolutions on th'other side, this must needs make the case more clear and evident in th'eyes of any man of judgement, then if it had not been gain said or withstood at all. I have been informed also that Master Gager himself upon the last rejoinder of Master Rainoldes hath let go his hold, and in a Christian modesty and humility yielded to the truth, and quite altered his judgement. If it be so (good Reader) and that so grave and learned a man hath chosen rather with that ancient father humile peccatum, then superbam ignorantiam, be not thou for thy part wilful and obstinate in thy conceit, whosoever thou art, but ponder the reasons and arguments on th'one side, consider the dangers and inconveniences on th'otherside. And if thou have been bewitched with his vanity heretofore, see whether th'advised perusal of this excellent treatise may happily by God's mercy unwitch thee again. And take this with thee for a general lesson and observation while thou livest, That whatsoever thy flesh, according to the common course of carnal men, delighteth in, suspect thou there is mischief in it, though thou be able to defend it by thy reason. Surely for mine own part, I am persuaded if this present discourse be read, marked, and digested as it should be, the gentlewoman that swore by her troth, That she was as much edified at a play as ever she was at any sermo, etc. will, ere she die, be of another mind, though it may be she said true then, in regard of her own negligence and backwardness in not giving ear to the word of God with reverence. The like may fall out also to those men too, that have not been afraid of late days to bring upon the Stage the very sober countenances, grave attire, modest and matronelike gestures & speeches of men & women to be laughed at as a scorn and reproach to the world, as if the hypocrisy of judas (if it were brought upon the stage) could any whit disgrace the Apostles of our Saviour Christ, and yet if these men had but thus far exceeded, kept themselves there, and gone no farther to the foul profaning and abusing of the holy Scriptures of God, their sin had not been half so great as it is. Well to heal, if it may be, or at least, to correct the bad humour of such humorists as these (who in their discovery of humours do withal foully discover their own shame and wretchedness to the world) here is now laid before thee (good Reader) a most excellent remedy and receipt, if thou canst be so happy to make thy profit of it. Read it therefore and disgeast it, and, if thou find good thereof, give God the glory, and bless his Name, for so worthy an instrument. Thine in the Lord. Master D. Rainolds answer unto Master D. Gager, concerning Theater-sights, stage-plays, etc. I AM much to thank you, Master D. Gager, for both your letters, and your Tragedy: the more, for that you have enlarged the answer to Momus (as you signify) because you understood that I & others should ask why those things were not answered which were objected. Indeed, as our Saviour a john. 18. 2●… when he was smitten by one for speaking nought but reason, said, If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil; but if well, why dost thou smite me? so they, whose objections against plays you attributed to the person of Momus, & thereby noted them as unjust reproovers, might justly say in my judgement; If our reasons be nought, discover their naughtiness; if good, why do you Mome us? And what so ever others had cause to think of themselves, yet I must needs think myself touched therein: although I should yield unto your request (which I most gladly do) in that you pray me, not to mistake your meaning; protesting your intent is not to note any man, but only Momus. For b Praefat. Thesium ad Acad, Oxon. I did reprove our Theater-sights & stage-plays, as 1 Pests scenicorum theatralia spectacula. hurtful and pernicious, many years ago: and this year, ere your Momus, or any of your Interludes came upon the stage, I had (in letters written to our good friend Master D. Thornton) alleged those reasons, which you make Momus use, against them. Now Aesopes' tale of Momus (as c De partib. anim. lib. 3. cap. 2. Aristotle showeth in that yourself mention of his reproving nature for setting bulls horns upon their heads, not upon their shoulders) was devised to check such as reprove unjustly the best and perfitest works of the most wise and skilful. To the which purpose sith you rehearse it also, and infer upon it, that the man who taunteth plays with 2 Probr. Arrepta quae conge●…sit ex triviis. the rascal reproaches there specified, offendeth in the same sort: how can it be avoided, but I, who had uttered those things against plays, though deeming them sound reasons, not rascal reproaches, must think myself charged under the name of Momus? unless I should be so unwise as to suppose, that my friend a lawyer, saying, If Sempronius borrow a horse of Seius, and ride him a mile farther, than Seius was content he should, d L. qui iumenta. D. de surtis. Val Max. lib. 8. cap. 2. he committeth theft, the speech doth not charge me with theft, though I had done so, because the lawyer meant not to charge me, whom he loveth, nor knew perhaps that I had done it; but his meaning was to charge Sempronius only. Wherefore albeit you mean not to hot any man but only Momus, as you protest, and I believe you: yet you mean withal (I trow) the same that e Prolege man.. Tully, when having reproved the covetousness of Chieftains and Gowernours of their wars, I (quoth he) name no man; Wherefore no man can be angie with me, unless he will confess first of himself. Which I do not mention to prove that I have cause of being angry with you (be it far from me,) although I confess myself to have written those things which they, who speak, are stained with Momus name by you: but only to show that by your speech against Momus, notwithstanding your intent to note no man but him, yet you note us all, in him, as unjust reproovers of plays, who soever inveigh against them as he doth. And this yourself can not choose but see and grant, if you call to mind your verses ad Zoilum, and Epistle ad Criticum. For you will profess (I hope) that your intent is not to note any man but only Zoilus and Criticus: Yet, if any find such fault with your Tragedy, as you control them for: you will not deny but you mean to note him as a malicious Zoilus, and a carping Critic. Your words enforce so much, in that you tell the Critic, that who so carpeth at the baseness of your matter and style, doth not blame you but Homer; And who so blameth Homer, he must needs be a Zoilus. I must pray you therefore, not to misdeem of me, that I mistake your meaning, when I think you purposed to note generally all reprovers of plays, as unjust reproovers: and so do take myself, though not intended by the Censurer, who did not aim at me; yet touched by the censure, which in event doth light upon me. As for that you add, that upon confidence of your own conscience, and the truth of the things themselves, you assure yourself, that I can not be displeased: I will assure you also that I mislike nothing in your entitling Momus unto our reasons of reproof, or in your answer to them, if, as you approve your cause of confidence on the one part, so you shall on the other. For your protestation of your own conscience doth bind me by the law of charity to think that you have done this in singleness of heart, without spite and malice. But the truth of the things themselves, that you challenge, belongeth to the reasons fathered on Momus, not to your answer, in my opinion. Whereof, lest you suspect it to proceed rather from a conceited fancy, than a sound judgement, I will open to you my grounds and inducements: requesting you the same that f Epistolar. 〈◊〉. 1. epist. 6. Horace did a friend of his; Simo quid novisti rectius istis, Candidus imperti; si non, his utere mecum. And, because in weighing your answers with the reasons I shall be occasioned to name this or that part, by circumstances, of your plays, as Antinous, Eurymachus, Hippodamia, Melantho, the rest of Penelope's wooers, or her maids, Phemius, Irus, Rivales, Phaedra, or her Nurse: I must pray you to deal with me in this case, as you desired to be dealt with, that is, to take my words, as spoken of Histrio (to feign a person like your Momus) with no intent to note any of your players; no more, then if they had not seen the stage at all, but * Quae gravis Aesopus, qu●… doctus Rosci us egit. Horat. epist. lib. 2. epi. 1. Roscius & Aesopus had played those parts, not Christ-church-students. Whom, and you for them, I shall find the readier to grant this, I trust: because both my conscience doth bear me witness before God, that I bear none of them evil will, nay, I wish unto them all as to myself; and I assure you I know not who they were that played any of those parts, nor what their names be. To the first reason then (for I will take them in your own order) that Stage-players are infamous by the civil law, you answer that 3 Famosus ergo est quisquis in scenan exiit? Praetor negabit. they are not all, but only such as play for gain sake: which you avouch is proved by the Praetor's words. But that which you make the Praetor say, as distinguishing, Qui sui spectaculum Mercedis ergô praebet, infamis siet; the Praetor saith not. Nay, contrariwise g Praetoris verba dicunt. D. de his qui no tantur infamia. L. 1. he saith without all distinction, generally and simply: Infamia notatur, qui artis ludicrae, pronuntiandive causa, in scenam prodierit. And Ulpian (whose h L. 2 §. Ait Praetor. place you quote for proof thereof) doth report him so, with these very words: Ait Praetor, Qui in scenam prodierit," infamis est". But Ulpian, expounding these words of the Praetor, citeth some i Pegasus & Nerva filius. lawyers saying, that they are infamous, qui quaestus causa in certamina descendunt, & propter praemium in scenam prodeunt: and hereof you conclude, that 4 Non ergo quenquam scena, sed quaestus notat. they, who come not forth into the stage for gain sake, are not infamous. By which kind of reasoning one might conclude likewise, that sith by k Deut. 23. 18 the scripture a woman taking money for prostituting her body to men is infamous: therefore she is not so, who doth it freely; much less, who giveth money to have her lover's company; whom yet l Ezek. 16. 33. the scripture counteth most infamous of all. Howbeit, had those lawyers, in adding, quaestus causa, intended your conclusion; which I know not whether they did, but admit it: nevertheless you know that a m Dionysius Gothofredus comment. in corp. iur. civ. ●…dit. 2. lawyer also, perhaps more learned than they, hath made this note thereon, Immò & qui sine quaestu. omnes enim scenici probrosi. August. lib. 2. de civet. Dei, cap. 11. & tribu moveri soliti, Livius lib. 7. wherein, as he gathereth, that such as come upon the stage without gain, are proved by S. Augustin and Livy to be infamous, because S. Austin and Livy do show that all stage-players (free players not excepted) were branded with a mark of infamy & dishonesty, disfranchised in a sort: so he confirmeth hereby (which was and ought to be the drift of his note) that by law the players without gain are infamous, not only such as play for gain sake. And this do their words, whom he allegeth, imply, if they be unfolded and weighed indifferently, according to the rules of law for doubts thence rising: to weet, that n L. 37. D. de legib. Senatusq. consult. custom is the best interpreter of laws; and, o L. 38. D. eod authority of things still judged of alike hath the force of law. For S. p li. 2. de civ. Dei. cap. 13. Augustin groundeth his 5 Quisquis civium Romanorum esse scenicus elegisset. etc. general conclusion upon the ancient practice and order of the Romans testified by q De repub. lib. 4. Tully: who saith that their ancestors, counting all kind of stage plays shameful and dishonest, agreed that such persons should not only want the honour of other citizens, but also be disfranchised by the controlment and check of Censors. Neither were they checked with this reproach and ignominy of old time alone, but in Livies' age too; yea, before, and after; at least, with the blemish and stain in men's opinion, ●…hough not with the punishment. r Or, Aemilius Probus, de vita excellent. imperat. praefat. Cornelius Nepos saith, that to come on the stage & be a spectacle to the people, was counted no dishonesty or shame among the Grecians; among the Romans it was. Laberius, a gentleman of Rome, taking pleasure in writing of poems, s Macrob. lib. 2. Satu. ca 7. when Caesar prayed him to play them himself upon the stage, he yielded as constrained by the Prince's request; but signified so much in his prologue, and declared withal what a blot it was unto him: Ego his tricenis annis actis sine nota, Eques Romanus è lare egressus meo, Domum revertar mimus: nimirum hoc die Uno plus vixi, mihi quàm vivendum fuit. t Satyr. 8. fuvenal, rebuking men of noble parentage tainted with like dishonour, doth touch them under Lentulus' name, with this censure: Laureolum velox etiam bene Lentulus egit, judice me dignus vera cruse. So shameful a matter seemed it to him for Lentulus to play the part of Laureolus (one, who in a Tragedy was feigned to be hanged, as Melantho in yours) that he thought him worthy to be hanged in ea●… est for it. Moreover, he prosecuteth the point in such sort, ●…at he cutteth off all opposition and reply, whereof else a show, but show alone, might be made against this testimony and the former. For the Grecians spoken of by Cornelius Nepos did come upon the stage for gain, at least 6 As the deg●…nerate Lacedaemonian widows, whom he mentioneth. some of them: though his speech concerning them (in the branch I cited) be general, like v Li. 4. de repub. August. de civet. Dei, lib. 2. cap. 10 Tully's, without that limitation; and so must contrariwise be meant touching the Romans. Laberius had a ring and money given him by Caesar: though he show sufficiently, that whereas no ambition, 7 Nulla unquam largitio. no reward ever, no fear, no force, no authority, could make him a stage-player in his youth; much less should it have done in his old age at three score years: it was necessity only, even Caesar's request, that is, constraint, which brought him to it. The men of noble parentage, whom juvenal rebuketh, were hired, as 8 Consumtis opibus vocem Damasippe locasti Sipa rio, clamosum ageres ut phasma Catulli. himself noteth; and the story of 9 Nobilium famil●…arum posteros egestate venales in sce●…am deduxit. Tacit. Annal. li. 14 Nero, who bought those needy squires to do that service, recordeth: though juvenal adjudgeth them unworthy of life, not only in respect that they played for their fee, but even that they played too; as may appear by that which followeth, Nec tamen ipse Ignoscas populo: populi frons durior huius, Quisedet & spectat triscurria patriciorum, Planipedes audit Fabios ridere potest qui Mamercorum alapas. For seeing that he findeth fault with the people, who sat & beheld the fowl misorders & scurrilities (such as your Antinous & other wooers practise) of persons nobly borne; who heard the race of Fabius resembling & couterfaiting such base ridiculous things as are expressed in Irus; who could abide to laugh at blows & whirrets, given to the Mamercians, as you would say unto Ulysses. he showeth that the very action itself, all regard of lucre, or what soever motive had brought them to it, set apart, was dishonourable & shameful in his judgement. But his like or sharper inveighing against Nero, touching whom he addeth, 1 Res haud mira tamen citharaedo Principe mimus Nobilis. that it was no marvel if noble men were stage-players when the Prince was a minstrel, doth put the matter out of doubt: in as much as he, comparing Nero to 2 Par Agamemnonidae crimen. Orestes, both murderers of their mothers, maketh Nero worse in many respects, and this amongst them: In scena nunquam cantavit Orestes. Wherein, by " cantavit, he meaneth not only that Nero played a minstrels part upon the stage, as Phemius on yours: but also that he played the parts of men and women, perhaps with song alone, as your Hippodamia; perhaps with song and speech both, as Eurymachus; but parts of Men and Women certainly. This, obscurely signified by juvenal himself, mentioning the 3 Ante pedes Domiti, longum tu po●…e Thyestae Syrma, vel Antigonae seu personam Menalippes. tragical habit of Thyestes, Antigona, Menalippe, worn by the offspring of Domitius, that is, by Nero; x In Ner. ca 2 Suetonius maketh plainer; saying, Tragoedias cantavit personatus; and, Inter caetera cantavit Canacen parturientem, Orestem matricidam, Oedipodem excaecatum, Herculem insanum. In the last of which tragedies it is reported that a young soldier (one of Nero's guard) being set to keep the entry, when he saw Nero attired and bound with Chains, as the argument required, he ran to him to help him; thinking (poor freshwater creature) that his master had been chained in earnest. Another, better acquainted than he with stage matters, and having served longer, y Dio Ner. in Xiphili. epist. when Nero played the first of them, namely Canace, the soldier being asked by some who met him in the city what the Emperor was doing, He is travailing with child, quoth he. The singing then used upon the stage by Nero, for which juvenal counteth him worse than Orestes, was his playing of men's and women's parts in tragedies. But Nero never played for gain: nay, he was so far from it, that, when a Praetor, who did set forth plays, offered him 4 Sesteriûm decies. Suet. Ner. cap. 2●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Dio. about eight thousand pound to be an actor, he took the pains, 5 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. as Dio saith expressly: and Suetonius sig nifieth, not saying that it was given him but that a Praetor offered it. refused the money, disdaining to do aught for hire. juvenal therefore counteth all stage-players infamous, not only such as played for gain. And what should I adjoin the testimonies of others, learned, unlearned; both sorts declaring what Roman citizens thought hereof? For beside Suetonius, Tacitus, Dio, etc. who hath written of Nero that hath not attainted him with this reproach? the common people, even soldiers, reckoned his stageplaying among his vicious acts: as, z Tacit. Annal. lib. 15. in a conspiracy that was made against him, he heard to his great grief; when Subrius Flavius, a Tribune, being demanded by him why he had sought his death, answered, Oderam te, nec quisquam tibi fidelior militum fuit, dum amari meruisti; odisse caepi, postquam parricida matris, & uxoris, auriga, histrio, & incendiarius extitisti: and Sulpitius Asper, answering more briefly to the same demand, said, Non aliter tot flavigitiis ejus subveniri posse. Neither was it the baseness thereof in comparison of his imperial Majesty, that they detested only, as his chariot-driving upbraided him withal might give cause to think, were it not a whelp too of 6 Circenses ludi. Sueton. Ner. cap. 22. the same litter: but the dishonesty and lewdness, which, accompanying commonly that trade, by many occasions incident into stage-plays, made such men infamous; and thereupon was noted, though as a more eminent fault in him than others, yet as a fault in others also. Pecuniam ob delicta dedit, saith a Annal. li. 14 Tacitus, telling how Nero brought those poor decayed gentlemen of noble houses to the stage: and blaming 7 Eius flagitium est qui pecuniam ob delicta potius de●…it, quàm ne delinquerent him, that he did not rather give them money to keep them from offending (so he termeth stageplaying of itself without gain) then to drive them to it. And Dio, a Senator of Rome, well acquainted with their laws and orders by b Lib. 43. & 49. sundry great offices of state borne among them, c Xiphil. epi. amplifying that injury done to more also, and to meaner persons than Tacitus speaketh of, neither all rewarded like them peradventure, sure Dio giving no inkling of that as the shame of it, saith, 8 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it was most shameful and grievous that they entered, some willing, some marvelous unwilling, but they entered, 9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. as the most infamous persons, to the stage, and played both tragedies & comedies. Wherefore sith the practice and judgement of the Romans noted all stage-players generally with infamy, not only such as played for gain: it followeth that the meaning of their law was general, and so all stage-players to be infamous by the civil law. Which law, if it deserve, though not the title of 1 ●…gregia verò laus & ingenuum decens Agere Histrionem lege famosum optima. the best applied to it by your Momus, yet of 2 Agere histrionem, lege damnatum piâ est. good and godly, given it by you in the rehearsal of his words, as you will grant it doth: I leave it to your own consideration, what credit your apology of those plays deserveth. Chiefly seeing Nero, whom that law condemned, might have used the same defence against his Momus, that you against yours, and knit it up with the same words; Quis hîc rogavit sportulam, vel quis dedit? Cui non patebant sponte sine lucro fores? And thus far of your answer to the first reason. 2 To the next, drawn from the best law indeed, even the law of God d Deut. 22. 5. which forbiddeth a man to put on woman's raiment; a thing though not distaining all stage-plays, yet well-nigh all, and there amongst all yours: you answer that 3 Semper●… Quid si cogeret lethi metus Mutare vestem? publicum quid si bonum suaderet? and, Non ergo juveni est gr●…de simpliciter nefas, Mollem puellam endure. it is not unlawful simply and always, as if one do it to save his life, to benefit many; & hereof you conclude, that to do it in plays is not unlawful. Of the which enthymeme (to call the trial of your arguments to the touchstone of Logic) the consecution doubtless is unsound and nought, whatsoever the antecedent be: and the antecedent, although in the balance of human reason it may seem to have weight, yet if it be weighed in the e 2 Tim. 3. 16 scales of the sanctuary, will prove unsound and light too. For the holy Ghost, the Spirit of truth teacheth us that f Rom. 3. 8. it is not lawful for us to do evil, that good may come thereof. When g Mat. 12. 〈◊〉 Christ on a Sabbat day went through the corn, and his disciples were an hungered, they began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. The Phariseiss reproved them for it; but unjustly: because it was not evil to work upon the Sabbat day in such a case. For by evil is h Rom. 3. 7. sin meant. i 1 joh. 3. 4. Sin is the transgression of the law. The k Num. 28. 〈◊〉. law allowed Priests to work on the Sabbat day in offering sacrifices. And l Hos. 6. 7. sacrifice did not please God in comparison of mercy. m Matt. 12. 7. Therefore to do that work of mercy and charity for the relief of hungry bodies upon the Sabbath day, was not evil. Contrariwise, when Peter n Luke 22. verse 31. being in danger of trouble and vexation, if he had been known to be of Christ's disciples, o ver. 56. did thereupon deny that he knew him, or had been with him: he was put in mind by Christ's p ver. 34. words & q ver. 61. deeds, and he did acknowledge by r ver. 62. his own tears, that he should not have done so. Why? Because he lied, and s Exod 20. 16 Psal. 15. 2. Zach 8. 16. Ephe. 4. 25. to lie is evil; not allowed in any case by t jam. 4. 12. our Lawgiver, no v job 13. ver. 4. 7. & 10. not for the defence of the glory of God, much less for the safety of man a x job 25. 6. worm. By conference and laying of which things together we are taught this difference between the moral law, and the ceremonial, that the ceremonial was not enjoined to be kept absolutely and simply; and therefore y 1 Sam. 21. 4 Matt. 12. 3. when it could not be kept without the breach of the moral law, the law of love and charity it yielded thereunto: but the moral law is simply and absolutely enjoined to be kept, as a pattern of that holiness which God requireth in z Rom. 8. 14. Ephe 4. 24. his children, a Lev. 19 2. 1 Pet. 2. 15. Be ye holy, for I am holy; and therefore, b Rom 3. 7. and 6. 2. who so breaketh any part thereof, though to keep an other part, doth defile himself, and displease the Highest. Now, the prohibition of men to be attired as women, women as men, belongeth to the moral, not to the ceremonial law. For c Gal. 4. 9 Col. 2. 16. Heb. 8. 13. & 9 11. & 10. 1. Christ hath delivered us from the keeping of the ceremonial. So that, were this difference of attire a ceremony, than Christian men and women might e●…h continually wear the others raiment: as lawfully; as they may d Lev. 19 19 wear a garment made of linen & woollen; sow their field with maslin; e Deut. 22. 10 plough with an ox and an ass; f Lev. 11. 7. eat of swine's flesh; of g Deut 12. 16 blood; of strangled: if not more lawfully rather than these last, which h Act. 15. 29. and 21. 25. the Apostles did forbid the Gentiles for a time, in respect of the jews. But they may not wear each the others raiment: as the general precepts absolutely given in i 1 Cor. 11. 7. 〈◊〉 Limb 2. 9 the new testament touching the distinct and several attire of both sexes, show. It is a commandment therefore of the moral law, that women shall not attire themselves like men, neither men like women. And hereof it followeth that if a man might save his life, or benefit many, by putting on woman's raiment, yet ought he not to do it, because it is evil. Nay (which addeth greater weight unto the reason) it is a notorious and detestable evil: as k Deut. 22. 5. the Spirit showeth by the words ensuing, For all that do so are abomination to the Lord thy God. And seeing that himself hath given this censure, God forbidden but we should think it most true and just: although our weak eyesight could discern no cause, why so small a matter, as flesh and blood might countit, should be controlled so sharply. Howbeir, if we mark with judgement and wisdom, first, how this precept is referred by learned Divines to the commandment l Exod. 20. 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery, some m Calvin. harmony. in lib. Mos. expos. sept. precept. Beza leg. Dei mor. cereino. & Posit. D. Babingt. exposit. of the command. expressly making it a point annexed thereto, some impliedlie, in that either n Procopius in Deut. Thom. Aquin. 2●…. 2●… q. 169. art. 2. Hyperius de fer. Bacchan. they knit it to modesty, a part of temperance, or o Cyprian. epi. 61. Chrysost. hom. 38. in Mat. Liran. in Deute. 22. note the breach of it as joined with wantonness and impurity: next, among the kinds of adulterous lewdness how filthy and monstrous a p Rom. 1. 27. sin against nature men's natural corruption and viciousness is prone to; the Scripture witnesseth it in q Gen. 19 5. Canaanites, r Ind. 19 22. 1 Kin 14. 24 2 King. 23. 7 jews, s 1 Cor. 6. 11. Corinthians, t Aristot. polit. lib. 2. ca 9 Senec. epi. 95 other in other nations, & v Quintil. li 〈◊〉 cap. 4. & lib. 2 cap. 2. one with special caution, Nimium est quod intelligitur: thirdly, what sparkles of lust to that vice the putting of women's attire on men may kindle in unclean affections, as x Sueton. in Ner. cap. 28. Nero showed in Sporus, y Lamprid. in Heliogab. Heliogabalus in himself; yea certain, who grew not to such excess of impudency, yet arguing the same in causing their z Hora. carm. lib. 2. odd. 5. Catul. in nup tias juliae juvenal satire. 8. Acer si comes. boys to wear long hear like women: if we consider these things, I say, we shall perceive that he, who a Deut. 23. verse 17. condemneth the female hoore and male, and, b ver. 18. detesting specially the male by terming him a dog, rejecteth both their offerings with these words that they both are abomination to the Lord thy God, might well control likewise the means and occasions whereby men are transformed into dogs, the sooner, to cut off all incitements to that beastly filthiness, or rather more than beastly. But whether this were part of the cause that moved the Spirit of God, or no: it is clear and certain that he pronounceth them abominable in his sight, or (as the Hebrues speak more forcibly) abomination, whosoever put on the different sex's raiment. And so, it being simply and absolutely unlawful, because it is forbidden by the moral law, and proved to be evil, a fowl abominable evil in God's sight: the Christian faith instructeth us that we may not do it for any good to come thereof, no not for the saving of honour, wealth, or life, of others, or ourselves. The arguments, whereby you strive to prove the contrary, are drawn from two examples: One of the Macedonians, whose king Amyntas entertaining Persian ambassadors, & having at their request brought noble women to the banquet, when the ambassadors dallying with them did touch their breasts, & offered some to kiss them; 4 vest filius Amyntae indui juvenes muli●…bri dum jubet, tot faeminis Claris pudorem ser var, & petulantiam Persis superbam coede praeclara excutit. the king's son, misliking their lascivious actions, desired them to give the women leave to go forth, pretending they should return neater, & so by his direction there came in their steed young men, attired like them, with dagger's under their garments, who slew the ambassadors as soon as they offered to touch them: The other of Achilles, whose mother Thetis, at the time of the Trojan war, knowing (as Poets feign) that he should die at Troy, if he went thither with the Grecians, did thervpo●… attire him (they say) as a woman, and committed him as her daughter to Lycomedes king of Scyros, 5 Vitan tu●…tur filius Thetidis suam. there to be kept safe from that danger. For hence you conclude that a man may lawfully put on woman's raiment to benefit others, to save his life; because the Macedonians, by their young Prince's motion, and Achilles did so. Which argument if it hold, then may a man lie to save his life, or benefit others, because c 1 Sam. 21. 2 David did so: then may a man forswear to save his life, or benefit others, because d Mat. 26 72. Peter did so. For the examples of e jam. 5. 10. Prophets and f Mat. 5. 14. Apostles are surer grounds to build on, then of Achilles or Macedonians. But you will not say that we may forswear, nor lie (I hope) for any cause; sure the Scripture will not, neither the g justin. Mart. apolog. ad Anton. Impe. August. li. de mendacio, & contra mendacium: and others of the soundest Fathers. Calvin Tremellius, junius, in Exod. 1. & the rest of ours. best Divins; no not h Magist. sentent. li. 3. dist. 38. Thom. Aquin. 2●…. 〈◊〉▪ quaest. 110. ●…rt. 3. & the rest. Schoolmen, or i cap. Super eo. extra de usuris▪ & all the Canonists thereon. canonists, which yet in many points are far beneath the best. you must remember therefore that we are to live by laws, not by examples: and regard in Macedon, and Greece, as in k L. 13. D. de officio Praefidis. Rome, not what is done there, but what ought to be done there. Else, by these very examples that you stand o●…, not only kings, but also their sons may put to death; and that, for wanton touching, not only for adultery; nor their own subjects alone, but foreign ambassadors; yea, their servants also, though innocent and guiltless; and make a booty of their carriage, their treasure, their furniture; all against the kings advise and commandment: for l Herodotus in Terpsichore. so did the son of Amyntas. And a man, whose country doth need and crave his service in lawful war against their enemies, may, for fear of death, use m Valer. Max. lib. 6. cap. 3. Vettienus his shifts to keep at home; a youth, that is in love, may put on maiden's raiment, as n Terent. Eun. Chaerea did the eunuchs for his Pamphilaes' sake; a son may obey his mother, not o Ephe. 6. 1. in the Lord, but against the Lord, and by her commandment behave himself unduetifullie, cowardly, wantonly: for p Statius A●…hilleid. li. 1. so did the son of Thetis. Wherein by the way you may observe too, both what inconvenience and danger of uncleanness cleaveth to this practice: and how Heathen men by the light of nature did descry the shamefulness of it and condemned it. For as he whose fact 6 Mollem puellam endure, scelus est Clodio; Non est Achilli: Clodius stuprum parat. yourself adjudge wicked Clodius I mean, q Sueton. in Caes. cap. 74. did satisfy his villainous lust with Caesar's wife by cladding himself in woman's raiment: semblably Achilles deflowered Deidamia, king Lycomedes daughter, by the same occasion. And Statius, who reporteth the story (so to term it with 7 Id quod crebra testari p●… test Historia. you) most exactly, saith r Achilleid. lib. 〈◊〉. that Chiron, the instructor and bringer up of Achilles, would not have suffered his mother to have had him away, Si molles habitus & tegmina foedafateri Ausa foret: that Calchas the Prophet, being filled with Apollo's spirit, cried out, O scelus, en fluxae veniunt in pectora vestes; Scinde puer, scinde, & timidae ne crede parenti: that Achilles himself did say unto Deidamia, Neque ego hos cultus, aut foeda subissem Tegmina, ni primo te visa in littore; and s Lib. 2. unto his mother, Paruimus genitrix, quanquam haud toleranda jubebas, Paruimus nimium; and unto Ulysses, that Maternum nefas had caused him to put on indecores, fatorum crimina, cultus▪ The which resolutions and speeches being attributed to heathen men by an heathen, and him an excellent Poet, who so well discerned what was fit and seemly for every one to speak and think, that in this respect he is preferred by a t julius Caes. Scaliger. Poet. lib. 6. ca 6 learned judicious author before Homer; do argue and declare, that wise & virtuous persons, represented in Chiron, would not have a man for safeguard of his life undergo the shame of wearing woman's raiment; that religious folk having the Spirit of GOD, as Calchas is imagined, accounted it a heinous crime, and wished children to rend such raiment when it were put on, and therein disobey their parents; that ingenuous valiant youths, like Achilles, may be ensnared for love sake to wear it, not for life; and do it for reverence of parents, though with grief; and lay the fault afterward upon their mothers, and the destinies, that they were tainted with such dishonour. Thus is it apparent even by the example which yourself commend, that, as S. v 1 Cor. 11. ●…3 Paul observeth on the like occasion, nature and scripture ●…each the same: and the moral law of God, and law of nature, agreeing both in one, do prove it to be simply unlawful and evil for men to put on women's raiment. But suppose it were not unlawful simply & always, because a x S. Austin, Soliloquior. lib. 2. cap. 16 great Divine saith it is a great question whether a man may do it to deliver his country from an enemy, though 8 In that he addeth these words, Fortasse verior vir futurus. himself seem to approve the negative; and a certain y Thomas of Aquine 2●…. 2●…. q. 169. art. 2. Schoolman, affirming it to be evil and nought of itself, saith that it may nevertheless be done for necessity, perhaps z 1●…. 2●…. quae. 102. art. 6. upon I know not what conceit of somewhat ceremonial in it; but suppose a man might do it for the saving of his life or country: yet your reason faileth in the consecution, that a man may therefore do it to play a part in comedies or tragedies. a Matt. 12. 3. David, when he was hungry, did eat the showbread, which was not lawful for him to eat: and our Saviour showeth that he did well therein. But if he hath done it in sport and of a merriment, when no need enforced: the law, which b Num. 15. 32 condemned a man for gathering sticks upon the Sabbatday, would have condemned him too. The grave Athenian judges, Areopagitas did never punish any (I trow) for killing quails to supply his want. But, c Quintil. lib. 5. cap. 9 when a lewd boy did pick out quails eyes of a wanton humour, they judged him worthy of death for it. Good Emperors have d L. 3. c. de feriis. allowed men to do their works of tillage and husbandry on the Soonday, when other days the season serveth not. What? to have stage-plays upon the Soonday therefore, or running of horses, or beare-baytings? No: they e L. 11. c. eod. & Cod. Theo. lib. 15. tit. 5. disallowed it. He that should spend his life as f jud. 16. 30. Samson did, in avenging himself of the Philistines, might have the same testimony of faith which g Heb. 11. 32 Samson had. But if one should spend it to show men Theater-pastime, as h Sueton. in Ner. cap. 12. that fellow did who played Icarus before Nero, and falling down near to his chamber, sprinkled him with blood; well might he earn the praise of Icarus. Wherefore albeit a man for the performance of necessary duties might put on women's raiment: yet would it not follow thereof, that he may do it to play a part in Interludes; Much less will that conclusion follow, which in steed hereof you set down generally, thereby to fetch about this hidden conclusion. For you do infer, as proved by those examples with the contrary of Clodius, that 9 Non ergo vestis foeminca iuveni est scelus; Sed prava mens, libido, malitia ac dolus: nec habitus ullus, sed animus turpem facit. it is no fault for young men to wear women's raiment, but to do it (as Clodius) with a lewd intent of committing whoredom, beguiling, and deceyving: neither doth any apparel, but the mind, make a man dishonest. And so assuming hereto, that l Quid simil●… nobis obijcere quisquam potest? Quid cogitatum tale? quis none of your young men, who were attired like women, had any such intent or meaning; you imply by consequence that it was no fault for them to be attired so; and therefore men may lawfully put women's raiment on to play. But what a foundation this frame is built upon, the consequence in religion and reason both will show. The Scripture saith that i 1 Cor. 11. ver. 5. & 10. women, praying, or prophesying, aught to have a veil or cover on their heads in token of subjection: but k verse 4. & 7. men ought not to have so. Now, what if a man should preach or pray in the Church with such a veil as women bear in this respect; with a call (for examples sake) or with a French hood: should he offend, or no? Your inference sayeth, Nay, unless he wear it with a lewd intent, as Clodius did. For no apparel, but the mind, doth make a man dishonest: and therefore * Non ergo velum foeminae viro est scelus; Sed prava mens, libido, malitia, ac dolus: Nec habitus ullus sed animus turpem facit. it is no fault for a man to pray with a French hood on his head. But Saint Paul saith otherwise: and, though he would grant the wearing of it with Clodius mind to be a greater fault; yet a fault would he judge it to wear it with Penelope's, because the very wearing of it, is forbidden. The l L. 23. D. de auro, argento, mundo. Civil law, speaking of men's and women's garments, some peculiar to either, some common to them both, defineth those to be common, which both may wear without reproof; peculiar, which both may not. Women shall have no garments peculiar now to them, if your speech be true. For men may wear their petticoats, kirtles, and whatsoever else without reproof: because it is not any apparel, but the mind, that makes a man blameworthy. The m Esai. 3 ●…7. Soph. 1. 8. Prophets reprehend the people of jury and jerusalem, for vanity in apparel. The n 1. Tim. 2. 10 1. Pet. 3. 3. Apostles require modesty and decency therein. The o Clem. Alex. paedag: lib. 2 cap. 10. 11. & 12. lib. 3. cap. 2. 3. & 11. Chrysost. orat. Calend. habit. Hiero. epist. 2. ad Nepot. ep. 4. ad Rusticum. ep. 8. ad Demetriad. ep. 47. de vitando suspecto contubernio. Fathers, instructing folk of several sexes, estates, and professions, give special precepts of the same. The p Xenoph. lib. 2. de dict. & fact Socr. ex Prodico Cic. lib 1. de office. post. Pane●…um. Philosophers, and q Cato. Lev. lib. 34. Lysander. Plut▪ apoph reg●… & imper●…t. Archidamus Zeuxidami. Plut. apophthegm. Lacon. Statemen, have thought some raiment comely for honest personages, some uncomely. All greatly overseen, if it be no shame for what so ever person to go attired how so ever; and every one may wear of any matter, fashion, colour, price he list. But if they were not overseen all, which for some of them we are sure they were not: then must we acknowledge, that, as in meats and drinks r Mat. 15. 11. that which goeth into the mouth, defileth not the man; yet, if men drink too much s Ephe. 5. ●…8 wine, they are defiled by their intemperance and riot: likewise in apparel, that which cometh upon the back, dishonesteth not the man; yet, if men wear costlier garments than they ought, they are dishonested by their riotous and unmodest behaviour. And so, if any man do put on Woman's raiment, he is dishonested and defiled, because he transgresseth the bounds of modesty and comeliness, and weareth that which Gods law forbiddeth him to wear, which man's law affirmeth he can not wear without reproof: though otherwise a Woman's raiment of itself doth neither discommend or commend the wearer; no more than t 1. Cor. 8. 8 meat maketh us acceptable to God; v Rom. 14. 17 For the kingdom of God is not meat, nor drink (I may add, nor apparel) but righteousness and peace and joy in the holy Ghost. Wherefore you had done better service to the truth, if, in steed of your eager knitting up of this point with this epiphonema, 2 Maledicta textum glossa quae vitiat bonum. Cursed is the gloss that corrupteth the good text, you had observed rather as x De idolotat. cap 16. Tertullian doth, that the good text you speak of, I mean, the holy Scripture specifieth not any apparel 3 Maledictus omnis qui muliebribus induitur. Cursed by God, but only woman's worn by man; and had applied it also against men's wearing of it in stage-plays, as y De spectac. cap. 23. he doth. At least I could have wished your censure had been milder, if not in regard of a younger Preacher, who did so expound that text in a godly Sermon before your book was printed: yet in consideration of that ancient Father, with z Cypri. Chrysost. Calvin. & Hyperius, in the places quoted in my letters to D. Thornton. many other worthy men, whose learned writings do gloss it in the same sort; and of a a Sext. Synod. in Trull. can. 6●…. general Council, which noreth men's wearing of women's, raiment though in plays, as a heinous crime. But if our gloss be cursed, who say that in the general sentence of the Scripture, All men are abomination that put on women's raiment, the special is comprised, Players are abomination that put on women's raiment; a thing which your Law-glosses observe upon your b L. 5. C. d●… legib. & constitut. Princ. L. 3. c. quando prouo●…. non est necesse. laws, as standing with reason, and thereupon do gather (agreeably to a c L. 147. D. de regulis juris Semper specialia generalibus insunt. rule of law) that he, who fordiddeth the general, will not have the special practised; and, every special is suspended, when the general is suspended: what manner a gloss is yours, which deduceth out of the general affirmative a particular negative, that is, a flat contradictory; & turneth, Alare, into, Some are not; and delivereth as a rule that it is no dishonesty for a man to wear whatsoever apparel, if his mind be chaste? 3 Yet the third reason, wherein plays are charged, not for making young men come forth in hoores' attire, like d Prou. 7. 10. the jewde woman in the Proverbs; but for teaching them to counterfeit her e verse 11. actions, her f verse 12. wanton kiss, her impudent face, her g verse 18. wicked speeches and enticements; should have been allowed even by your own gloss and exposition of the text: sith 4 Distincta sexum forma distinctum de cet, Virile n●… est foeminae mores sequi. you say upon it, that different behaviour becometh different sexes, and, it beseemeth not men to follow women's manners. h Stat. Achilleid. lib. 1. Thetis taught Achilles how to play the woman in gate, in speech, in gesture: Sic ergo gradus; sic ora, manusque nate feres, comitesque modis imitabere fictis. And because his mother had not taught him enough, or he was but a bad scholar: i Lib. 2. Deidamia gave him farther advertisements, how he must hold his naked breast, his hands, & so forth. These are women's manners unseemly for Achilles to imitate: he should not have done it. How much less seemly than is it for young men to danse like women, though like k exod 15. 20. those, who praised God with danses: and much less seemly yet to danse like unhonest women, like l Mar. 6. 22. Herodias? whereby what a flame of lust may be kindled in the hearts of men, as ready for the most part to conceive this fire, as flax is the other, m Chrysost. hom. 49. in Matth. Hyperius de ferus Bacchan. Vives de instit. faeminin. Christ lib. 1. cap. de saltationibus. Christian writers show in part by Herodes example: but a n Propertius lib. 2. eleg. 〈◊〉 Heathen Poet more fully by his own experience; affirming that he was not ravished so much with his mistress' face, though marvelous fair and beautiful, nor with her hear hanging down lose after the fashion about her smooth neck; nor with her radiant eyes, like stars; nor with her silks, & outlandish bravery; as he was with her gallant dancing. And greater reason is it you should condemn all stage-plays, wherein young men are trained to play such women's parts, because, unto Momus terming the stage a 5 Scurrilitatis ludus, ac lasciviae. school of scurrility and wantonness, you reply, that 6 Ludicrum petulans vocat merry things are called wanton by him, and that 7 Scurrile tu pro●…erre ne verbum potes. he is not able to allege one word savouring of scurrility. As if you had said, that, could he make proof of the least scurrility or wantonness therein, yourself would condemn them: according both to Christian piety, by the o Eph. 5. 4. Apostles, and to civil honesty by the p Arist. Politi. li. 7. cap. ult. Philosopher's precept. Which showeth that you acknowledge it unseemly also for men to play such men's parts, as defile their mouths with unmodest speeches; much more, as stain their bodies & minds with wanton deeds. q Xenoph. de dict. & fact. Socr. lib. 1. When Critobulus kissed the son of Alcibiades, a beautiful boy, Socrates said he had done amiss and very dangerously: because, as 8 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Aristo. de hist. anim. lib. 9 cap. 39 Dioscorid▪ lib. 6. cap. 42. certain spiders, if they do but touch men only with their mouth, they put them to wonderful pain and make them mad: so beautiful boys by kissing do sting and power secretly in a kind of poison, the poison of incontinency, as r Paedagog. lib 3. cap. 11. Clemens Alexandrinus speaking of unholy and amatory kisses, saith: amatory 9 Procul impudicos corpore à casto amove Tactus: quid hoc est? etiam in amplexus ruit. embracing goeth in the same line with amatory kissing, if not a line beyond it. amatory dancing is, in s Odies. a. & D. Homer's wantoness, as oil unto the fire: and the 1 Multarum deliciarum comes est ex trema saltatio Orat. PerMuraen. commendation that 2 Enervis hist●…. amorem dum fingit, infligit Tully giveth it in banquets, S. v De penitent. lib. 2. cap. 6. Chry. ho. de Dau. & Saul. periculosum esse adire spe ctacula quodque ea res adulteros per fectos facit. Ambrose giveth it in stage-plays. Herewithal if amatory pangs be expressed in most effectual sort: can wise men be persuaded that there is no wantonness in the player's parts, when experience showeth (as wise men have observed) that x men are made adulterers and enemies of all chastity by coming to such plays? that y Cypri. epi. 2 ad Donatum senses are moved, affections are delighted, hearts though strong and constant are vanquished by such players? that z Minutius Felix, in octavio an ² effeminate stage-player, while he feigneth love, imprinteth wounds of love? Moreover, sith of like things you must needs judge alike: you disallow the practising of other vices also, as well as of wantonness and scurrility. Which I presume the rather, because 3 Nostra tibi soli impud●… Visa est ●…uventus ingenua, casta, elegans, Generosa, do●…a you say of your actors, the young men of your house, that they are ingenuous, learned, chaste, well nurtured, and virtuously disposed. For if, upon this praise given them by you, I should reply, as a Plut. apophthegm. reg. & imperat Phocio the Athenian did, who, when the king of Macedon (his countries secret enemy) sent him a hundred talents, and he demanding of the bringers why among so great a number of the Athenians, the King sent that to him alone, they answered that the King thought him alone an honest man; Then let him suffer me both to seem and be such a one, quoth Phocio: I assure myself you would rejoin that you wish them to seem & be such as you avouch they are; and therefore that you would no more have them do any thing, whereby they might hazard the loss of any other of those good qualities, or the credit thereof, then whereby of chastity. Now, within the compass hereof doth the playing of sundry parts in Comedies fall, as of cozening varlets, base parasites, and the rest, reproved by S. b De specta●…. cap. 5. Cyprian: of sundry parts in tragedies, as of ambitious, cruel, blasphemous, godless caitiffs', and such as c Epist. lib. 1. epi. 2. Horace noteth, Sponsi Penelopae, nebulones, Alcinoique In cute curanda plus aequo operata iuventus: in a word of all such parts in what soever plays, as d De guber●…. Dei. lib. 6. Saluianus censureth with that e Prov. 10. 23 text of Scripture, 4 As the seventy interpreters (whom his Latin followeth) expressed it in Greek: agreeing with the Hebrew in substance, though having peradventure read the letter Beth amiss in steed of Caph The fool doth commit wickedness in pastime; & the f Pro. 26. 18. Scripture teacheth they are no better then mad men, As a mad man casteth firebrands, arrows, and mortal things; so is he that deceiveth his neighbour, and saith, was I not in sport? For, the care of making a show to do such feats, and to do them as lively as the beasts themselves in whom the vices reign, worketh in the actors a marvelous impression of being like the persons whose qualities they express and imitate: chief when earnest and much meditation of sundry days and weeks, by often repetition and representation of the parts, shall as it were engrave the things in their mind with a pen of iron, or with the point of a diamond. In which consideration the Spirit of God instructeth us, that we ought to 5 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 imitate, resemble, g Ephe. 5. 1. follow God, and h 1 Cor. 11. 1 Heb. 13. 7. Godly men, and i 1 Pet. 3. 13. that which is good; k 3 joh. ve. 11 not any evil thing, but good only; and 6 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. meditate, l 1 Tim. 4. 15 exercise those things. And the Paynim Romans, though m Liv. li. 7 25 27. & 29. Au gust. lib. 1. de civi. Dei, ca 32. Paul Oros. li. 3. ca 4 bound to have stage-plays by their superstition in honour of their Deified devils, Yet n Liv. epi. lib. 48. Aug. lib. 1. de civ. dei, cap. 31. destroyed theatres once as unprofitable, & likely to breed public 7 Theatra stuprandis morib▪ orientia statim destru ebant: sayeth Tertull▪ speaking of the old Roman laws Apolo. ca 6 corruption of manners. And the o Plutar. insti. Lacon. Lacedæmonians, by their ancient orders, might not hear comedies nor tragedies: because they would not have their laws gainsaid, though in jest. Neither would the p Val. Max. li. 2. cap. 6. Massilians suffer any stage-players to come amongst them: lest the custom of beholding evil things represented should breed licentiousness of following them. And 7 Solon, when Thespis, the first tragedie-player, being demanded by him if he were not ashamed to utter such lies before so great a company, said it was no harm to speak and do such things in sport; the grave old man, striking the ground with his staff, But shortly (saith he) we, who do commend and approve this sport, shall find it 〈◊〉 Plutar. in So ●…one. in our earnest contracts and affairs. This if that discreet Athenian lawgevir, if the Romans, the Lacedæmonians, the Massilians feared in the beholders & hearers, and feared not without cause, as r Isocrat. orat. de pace: & Ariopagit. Corn. Tacit. Annal. li. 14 Aug. li. 1. de civet. Dei, ca 33. Salvian, de gubern. Dei, li. 6. & 7 experience taught: how much greater outrage of wickedness and iniquity are the actors & players themselves likely to fall into? Seeing that diseases of the mind are gotten far sooner by counterfeiting, then are diseases of the body: and bodily diseases may be gotten so, as appeareth by s Martial epigram. lib. 7. epigr. 38. him, who, feigning for a purpose that he was sick of the gout, became (through 8 Quantum cura potest, & ●…rs doloris? Desit fingere Caelius podagrum. care of counterfeiting it) gouty in deed. So much can imitation & meditation do. Wherefore, in my iudment considering what yourself do grant, or must by consequence, such plays as bring in wooers masked, and dancing, using much unmodest behaviour in words and deeds; young men in women's raiment, and supposed to be gentlewomen, dancing with them; Eurymachus kissing of Melantho, and Melantho bewailing the case that no more kissing, nor dancing now, when she must be hanged; Rivales fond, & amorous; mariners beastly drunken; Phoedra incestuously embracing, and endeavouring to inflame her son Hippolytus with love-speeches; the Nurse, and a new Nymph thereto, bringing fuel enough to heal and melt a heart of ice or snow; with other things haply, which, as t Vale●…. Maxi. 〈◊〉. 8. cap. 10 Aeschines said of Demosthenes, What if you had heard himself? so they who were present, and beheld the plays, can better tell than I: such stageplays, I say, you ought in my judgement acknowledge to be justly charged and condemned by the third reason. But 9 At grand factum est tempotis dispendium▪ At Mome, non est: Mome mentitis. you, proposing it briefly, that much time was lost and misspent about them, make answer that there was not; & add sundry arguments to justify the spending of time and pains therein. S. v Epist. 61. ad Euchrat. Cyprian writing of a stage-player who made boys effeminate by instructing then how to play the women, and to express & counterfeit unhonest wanton gestures, saith, 1 Magister & doctor non erudiendorum sed perdendorum puerorum. he was a master not of teaching but spilling children. Whose words put me in mind that the loss of time should not have been objected so much against your plays: seeing some of the players (if they were like the youths whom Cyprian speaketh of) might reply as x Terent. E●…. Phaedria; when Parmeno did tell him that his gift bestowed on Thais would be lost, Ego quoque unà pereo, quod mihi est carius: ne istuc tam iniquo patiare animo. There was no more time spent about them ( 2 Nihil studiis remissum est publicis: id fabulis Tempus tributum est quod solet tribui jocis, Somnoque colloquiisque, doctoque otio. you say) then useth to be spent in sports, sleep, talk, and learned releasing of the mind from study. It may be that there was: even some time that should have been spent in hearing Sermons the very day that your Ulyssis redux came on the stage. But if a student haunting a dicing house or tavern with us, or stews at Rome, should say he spent no more time thereat, than others do in sports, sleep, talk and learned releasing of the mind from study: were this sufficient proof that he did not misspend his time? you add that 3 B●…ne collocati temporis fructum chorus praestare noster, Mome, maiorem potest, quàm disciplina quis piam Momi editus. your actors can show greater fruit of their time well spent, than any that is bred up by Momusses discipline can. I pray God they may. Sure they shall the better if they be informed that this which you term the discipline of Momus, is not his, but y De spectac. cap. 5. Cyprians, who entitled the stage 4 Pudoris publici ●…upana. a stews of public shame; or rather the z 1 Thes. 5. 22 holy Ghosts, who willeth us to abstain from all appearance of evil: and that the contrary, for the love whereof you would disgrace this, hath to great affinity with the a Pro. 7. 21. strumpet's discipline, mentioned in the Proverbs. You demand 5 An tu poesin despicere doctam audeas? whether we dare despise learned poetry. No. For S. b 1 Cor. 15. 33 Paul hath sanctified (as c Ad uxorem. lib. 1. Tertulian well saith) a verse of Menander: and d Act. 17. 28. Tit. 1. 12. citing other Poets doth show that there is good use of them. But S. Paul who did not despise Menander's comedies could have deemed it unmeet for a e 1 Tim. 4. 12 2 Tim. 3 10 Timothee to play the midwives part, or Darus', or Dromo, in f Terent. prolog. Andriae. his Andria or Perentia. you ask 6 Senecamne tu recitare iacturam putes? Whether we think it a loss to recite Seneca. Not I: who have recited sundry of his verses upon occasion in my Lectures. But it is one thing to recite; an other thing to play: as you may learn by g satire. 1. & 8 juvenal, who dispraised not Poets for 7 Impunè ergo mihi recitaverit ille togatas? reciting comedies, yet thought a 8 ●…inge tamen gladios inde atque hinc pulpita pone. Quid satius Mortem sic? quisquam exhorruit ut sit Zelotypus Thymeles, stupidi collega Corinthi. man ought rather choose to die than play them: by Pliny, who esteemed (no doubt) of stageplaying like a Roman; yet h Epist. lib. 2 epi. 10. prayed others to recite, or i Lib. 1. ep. 13 lib. 3. ep. 15. lib. 16. ep. 15 and 17. lib. 9 epi. 27 praised them for doing it, and k Lib. 3. ep. 18 lib 5. epi. 3. & 13. lib. 7. ep. 17. lib. 8. epi. 21. did it himself; by l Poetices li. 1 cap. 7. Scaliger, who reporteth out of the same Pliny that a Latin comedy indited in such sort as the old comedy of the Greek was 9 Recitatam, non tamen actam. recited in his time at Rome, but not played. And if your tragedy had been recited only, as by the 1 Ulysses' redux, tragedia nova, in aede Christi Oxoniae publicè recitata. title a stranger might conceive, who knew not that it had been played: surely for mine own part I would have accounted it no more loss of time to have heard you pronounce it then myself to read it. But it being played as 2 Acta ludis Megalensib. tit▪ Andr. etc. ludis Funebribus, tit. Adelph. ludis Romanis, tit. Phorm. Terence's were: a loser Poet than Terence would control my judgement and very justly might, if seeing there is in it a 3 Dulcis Melantho, etc. act. 3. sweet Melantho, a lewd quean, I should not think there came hurt by the playing of it. For you know what m In prologo Captiv. Plautus saith of his captive, that 4 Profectò expediet fabulae huic operam dare. it would be good for them to hear and see that interlude played, because it was not made like others, it had no filthy verse, nor perjured bawd, nor wicked whore, nor boasting soldier. Finally you say that 5 Locus suus est jocis, Ludio, choreis, seriis etiam est suus. And, Tu tollis hominem ex homine? tu part alterâ constare credis? there is a time for sports, plays, danses, a time for earnest studies: and, man consisteth not of one part alone; he hath a body as well as a mind. Time of recreation is necessary, I grant: and think as necessary for scholars that are scholars in deed, I mean, good students, as it is for any. Yet in my opinion it were not fit for them to play at stool ball among wenches; nor at Mumchance or Maw with idle lose companions, nor at trunks in Guile-hals, nor to danse about Maypoles, nor to rifle in alehouses, nor to carouse in taverns, nor to steal dear, nor to rob orchards. Though who can deny, but they may do these things, yea worse, even those S. n Rom. 13. ●…3 Paul meant by chambering and wantonness, and that in the most heinous degree, even of incest, if your general speech concerning recreation be not better limited? For to go no farther than your own Phoedra, the same reason serveth her unto Hippolytus: o Ovid. epi. 〈◊〉. Quod caret alterna requie durabile non est: Haec reparat vires, fessaque membra levat. Arcus, & arma tuae tibi sint imitanda Dianae: Si nunquam cesses tendere, mollis erit. Good verses, and a wholesome lesson: fit for chaste Hippolytus to think of & remember. But as he had learned by the light of nature, that albeit rest and recreation is needful, yet the thing which Phoedra laboured to persuade him under pretence of rest and recreation, was execrable: so students are instructed by p Xenophon. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. lib. 1. de dict. & fact. S●…cr. l. 4. Panaetius & Tully after him de off. lib. 1. followers of the same light (to go no higher for this matter) that all sports and plays are not expedient, honest, seemly, some savour of dishonesty. Of which kind danses are, as the Gentiles saw by the same light also: those danses, that you speak of, if you speak to purpose; not q 2. Sam. 6. 14 David's dancing, which S. r De poenit. li. 2. cap. 6. Ambrose doth well distinguish from them, but danses of Penelope's wooers, of Melantho; of other of her maids, and simply all stage-dansing. In so much that the s Dio, Xiphilini epit. in Ne●… Romans, whom Nero enforced, if they could do no other service on the stage, to danse there at least, 6 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. pronounced the dead happy, who by departure out of life had escaped that shame. The t jud. 16. 25. Philistines accounted it a meet dishonour for their greatest enemy, when they put Samson to it: if yet the playing & sporting before them, which they put him too, were so ignominious. All ancient laws almost (as a v Arias Mo●…. in jud. ca 16. learned man doth note upon occasion of that concerning Samson) yea, and reason itself do brand with a mark of dishonesty and infamy, those that dance publicly; and persons of such shows and spectacles. Wherefore the needfulness of a time for sports, for plays, for recreation, as well as for study, doth not prove the lawfulness of your Theatrical sports, and plays; of the dances mentioned; of young men's womanly raiment; of Melanthos kissing; of Phaedra's furious rage; her Nurses and the Nymphs bawdry; of wantonness and scurrility showed in sundry speeches, actions and gestures; of the lose and beastly behaviour of the mariners, with the rest of like quality. Nay, your own argument that man consisteth not of one part alone, he hath a mind as well as a body, confuteth all such sports; because, as recreation is needful in regard of the body, so virtuous recreation in regard of the mind: and virtue more necessary much then recreation, by how much the mind is of more excellency than the body; or rather by how much more profitable it is for mind and body both, sith he who wanteth x 2. Pet. 1. 5. virtue, y verse 9 is blind, and, z 1. Tim. 4. 8. godliness hath the promise both of the life present & of the life to come, and a Heb. 12. 14 without peace and holiness, no man shall see the Lord. Now, these things standing thus, what need I spend words in proving of the fourth reason, namely, that the charge of setting forth such plays is money cast away, and addeth wastfulness to wantonness, when your own answer doth strengthen it sufficiently? For in that you say, 7 Est, ubi parcas, locus: suus est honesto sumptui. there is a time of sparing, a time of honest spending, you grant that unhonest expense is still unlawful: as you have cause to do, seeing it is of b Luk. 15. 13. riot condemned by our Saviour in the prodigal son. Wherefore, unless that unthrift might have answered Christ or any other reproover, Thou blamest me for wasting, but I wast none of thine; thou mayst drink with me scotfree, if thou be a good fellow, and welcome: I see not how 8 At sumptus ingens: at tibi gratis licet spectare, Mome, nemo te stipem rogat. your answer to Momus can be justified, Thou sayest the charge is great; but thou mayest come, and look on, Momus, and pay nothing, no man doth ask thee a penny. And that which 9 Huc tantus iste sumptus, in pauperculos magis elocandus, rediit? he objecteth, that it had been better bestowed on the poor, is as weakly met with; in that you reply, 1 Sumptus est ingens tibi; Nobis mediocris: nemo proptereà minus fovebit inopes; absque eo ●…emo magis 〈◊〉. The charge, great to him, is mean & moderate to you; none will give the less to the poor for that▪ none would have given the more without it. For c Sueton. 〈◊〉 Ner. cap. 20. Nero, being tickled with desire of praise, and loving to hear men approve his playing on the stage with clapping of their hands, and crying out, Excellent, excellent, did choose a lusty band of valiant youths to do it, whose Captains he gave 2 Quadrag●… millia ●…tiûm. three hundred pound a piece, or better. This, if we consider d Co●…. Ta●… hist. lib. 1. the millions that he wasted in prodigal gifts, was less charge to him, supposing it amounted to three thousand pound, or four, or five, or more, than three or four, or five, or a few more shillings is to some of yours. Yet the story noteth it as part of his wastfulness: and Nero peradventure was either less able or less willing to help the poor, by reason of that moony given for a Plaudite. But you tell Momus, that 3 Adquid ist●… perditio est, Here? Mala, Mome, vox est. their speech, who said, e Mat. 26. 8. what needed this waste? is evil. An evil speech in deed, as f joh. 12. 4. judas and others used it, because that was no waste, g Mat. 26. verse 10. it was a good work h verse 12. done for the preparing of Christ to his burial. But neither is it a good work or service unto Christ, to spend thirty pound in trimming up a stage and borrowing robes out of the revils, for the feeding of that humour which i Epistol. lib. 2 Est. 1. Horace, though an Epicure, condemned of great 4 Tanto cum strepitu ludi spectantur & arts Divitiaeque peregrinae, quibus oblitus actor Qu●…m stetit in scena, concurrit dextera laevae. Dixit adhuc aliquid? Nil sanè. Quid placet ergo? Lana Tarentino violas imitata veneno. lightness in the people of Rome: and k Hon il. 56. in Genesin. Chrysostome, but what speak I of a Christian Bishop, who may be thought to rigorous? a l Plutarch Opusc. Bellóne an sapientia clariores fuerint Athen. heathenish Lacedemoniam, seeing much cost bestowed on a stage at Athens, said they were much to blame for wasting things of worth on toys; And m Tully with the learned (whose judgement he relieth on) do give such expense the note of 5 Prodigi dicuntur qui ludorum apparatu pecunias profundunt etc. prodigality. The more sorry am I, that you conclude your answer to this and all the former reasons with alleging 6 Academiae tu judicia nihili facis? the judgement of our University; yea, with ask us, whether we set nothing by it. Wherein first you do the University wrong, in charging the body thereof with allowing that, which some were not present at, because they disallowed it, some disallow it who were present: as in part I know by a grave learned man, your good friend and mine, who showed me his dislike of the representation of amorousness n De office lib. 2. and drunkenness, in Rivales both; the former, not in Rivales only: in part I conjecture by that I understand that certain who came thither, came even pressed to it by great importunity; and as myself by such means have been over-entreated to do that sometimes which I repent afterward, so I think of others, men subject to the like passions that I am. Next, you do us injury, who descent from them that approve and like it, in that you entwite us as setting nothing by their judgement: when you should rather think, by the rule of charity, that we descent from them as n De baptism. contr. Donat. lib. 2. cap. 5. cont. Crescen. grammat. lib 2. cap 3●… Augustin did from Cyprian, whose judgement notwithstanding he reverenced and made account of. But to them I say▪ with o Phil. 3. 15. Paul; to the Philippians, If ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveile even the same to you, and I assure myself, they will take in good part, that I prefer before them the judgement of the Church in so many councils, what General, what Provincial, of p Sext●… Synod. in Trull. can. 62. Constantinople, q Concili. Laodicen. can. 54. De consecrat. Dist. 5. c. Non oportet. Laodicea, r Concil. Carthag. tertium can. 11. septimum, can●… 2. c. Definimus. §: Omnes. 4. q. 1. Carthage, s Concil. Arelat. secund. can. 20. Arles, and t Conc. Aquisgran. sub Ludov. Pio. cap. 83. Aquisgranum; to pretermitt the Fathers, of whom what one is otherwise minded? To yourself I say farther, that in steed of your question proposed unto us, Academiae tu judicia nihili facis? I propose you an other upon a v 1. Cor. 11. 16. surer ground, though in a verse like yours, and God grant you may think religiously, wisely, & fruitfully thereof, Ecclesiae t●… iudi●…ia nihili facis? Thus have I showed you what moveth me to think that the truth belongeth rather to the reasons fathered upon Momus, then to your answers: Which I have strained myself to do the sooner amidst my great business, that as you were desirous by a common friend of ours to satisfy me, with protestation of your hearty affection and good will: so you might perceive I am as careful to approve my judgement unto you, my good will at least, if you shall notwithstanding mislike of my judgement. And if you will signify to me what you mislike in any of the points; which I have stood upon or touched by occasion; you shall find me as willing to learn, by God's grace, as I am ready to teach, according to Saint x Epist. 1. ad Greg●…. Naz. Basils' counsel. For as the love I bear to you, and to others, enforceth me the 7 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. later, not to conceal through envy any thing I know; so the love I bear to GOD and his truth, persuadeth me the 8 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. former, not to be ashamed to learn that I know not. The Lord fill our hearts with his holy Spirit, and have us in his gracious protection for ever. At Queen's College. jul. 10. 1592. Yours in the Lord john Rainolds. Unto this master D. Gager replying and desiring Master Rainoldes to forbear, Master Rainoldes did rejoine as followeth. YOUR request, Master D. Gager, that I should forbear farther reply in writing, and by word of mouth in private conference inform you, if you have greatly erred in any part of your answer; brought into my mind a Diog. Laer▪ in Diogene. the Philosophers censuring and checking of such as offered sacrifice for health, and at their very sacrificing did banquet riotously against health. For that which I wrote concerning things, the stage-plays, you draw unto the persons, who played on the stage at Christ-Church, as if I went about to make them and your house most vilanouslie infamous: and partly by concealing, partly by perverting the drift & substance of my speeches, you seek to smother up and suppress the truth. Which being done in writing by you with care and diligence, not to be imparted unto me alone, but to others also, as yourself do signify: if I should note the fault thereof by word of mouth, my plaster would be less a great deal then the wound, and therefore never reach to heal it: for words have wings, and fly away, men's writings do remain. But as far as possibly I may without neglect of the duty I own to GOD and to his Church, I yield to your request: that is, I will endeavour to make plain unto you the injuries and wrongs that your answer doth me, as briefly as the necessary clearing of the truth, and scattering of the mists whereby you go about to darken it, will permit. The point that is in question between us touching stage-plays, was generally moved: to weet, whether such as play them do offend, or such as reprove the playing of them. You undertook to show that the reproovers are faulty: I, that the Players. And lest the dissension of opinions herein should breed exulceration of minds between us, if that, which either of us said touching the matter, should be taken odiously as meant against the persons whom it might concern: you, with protestation of your good will to mee-ward, desired me not to think that you meant to note me by the name of Momus; I prayed you the like with like protestation in respect of your players; & that with greater reason why you should have yielded to it in my opinion, sith neither one of their names, Phemius for example sake, doth signify a lewd player, as Momus doth an unjust reproover; neither did I know who played that part and others, as you knew my mislike of plays. Now, I condescended to your desire most gladly: yourself acknowledge it, and heartily thank me for it. I would to God I might have likewise thanked you: whereof you have given me so little cause, so great cause to the contrary, that I must needs complain you have forgotten the lesson which a b Alexander Severus, apud Lampridium. heathen Emperor had learned of jews or Christians, and marvelously loved it, Quod tibi fieri non vis, alteri ne feceris. For whereas you had said that stage-players were not counted infamous by the civil law, but only such as played for game; and I, to refute this, declared that the Romans, whose judgement and custom doth best interpret their own law, counted Nero infamous for playing, though freely; which, lest you perhaps through ambiguity of a 1 The word cantavit, used by juvenal. sat. 8. word, should except against, that it was not stageplaying of men's and women's parts, I opened it by the examples of your Hippodamia, Eurymachus, and Phemius: you reply hereon, that this is my arguing; Many noble men, and Nero himself were infamous for playing, though freely, mens and women's parts, and specially Nero for singing like a fiddler on the stage; Ergo, scholars and the students of Christ-church are to be noted with a mark of infamy, for playing, though gratis, such parts as they did in Ulysse reduce; and namely the Master of our Choristers for playing Phemius; notwithstanding for his honesty, modesty, and good voice, he is as worthy to be delivered from infamy, as Phemius himself is feigned to be saved from death, for his excellent skill in Music, to say nothing of the rest. And not content to wrest mine argument from my drift, and rack it to my sentence from the Civil law, to Christ-church players from the Roman, you shut up your tale with this moral: I dare not deny this argument, because it is yours; I refer it to the charitable judgement of my betters. c Act. 25. ●…2. Hast thou appealed to Caesar? to Caesar shalt thou go, quoth Fest●…s, Even so am I contented, good Sir, that our betters do judge of mine argument, and your charitable usage of it. To the which intent I beseech you heartily, that, with the next play you publish, you will set forth my letters, and your answer to them. In the mean season, I think, that when omitting the force of mine argument against your distinction of playing for gain, & freely, you drew in the mention of the Master of your Choristers, his honesty, his modesty, his good voice, his Music, and of the rest of the Scholars & students of Christ-church: your purpose was to show a piece of that art, that Servius Galba did. Who, being indited of a d Valer. Max. lib. 9 cap. 6. Sueto. in Gal. cap. 3. Oros. lib 4. cap. 21 great offence, whereof he could not clear himself, and therefore e Cic in Bruto Livi. lib. 49. epitome Valeria. Max. lib. 8. cap. 1. slipping from it, commended to the judges both his own children, and the child of his kinsman, a most worthy citizen, that being lately dead, had left him guardian to his child: so to save himself by the people's mercy and commiseration of the boys, which he could not have done by the desert of the cause and his own innocency. For if the good qualities of the Master of your Choristers, or of your Scholars and Students, do prove that the Romans counted it no infamy for such to be stage-players, how soever they counted it for Nero: then f Orat. pro P. Quintio. Tully spoke absurdly, when he said that Roscius both for his skill in playing seemed alone worthy to come upon the stage, and for his 2 Vir eiusmodi est. The sense of which words he openeth in his oration pro Q. Roscio comoedo, saying thus of Roscius: Quem populus Romanus meliorem virum quàm Histrionem esse arbitratur; qui ita dignissimus est scena propter a●…i. ●…cium, ut dignissimus sit curia propter abstinedam virtue and honesty, seemed alone worthy not to come upon it. And how can the charitable judgement of your betters; nay, how can your own, charge me as offending for setting down that of the Romans, which by consequent toucheth the Master of your Choristers credit, and others of Christ-Church: where yourself acknowledge, that your invective against Momus, doth consequently fall on me, on the Preacher, on whosoever else reprove plays, and yet you may have written it without offence, you trust? But in this matter your fault is the less, because you had some colour thereof by mine exemplifying in three of your players: nor did the Romans always count them so infamous but that the best of them were sometime well esteemed of, as g Macrob. Saturn. lib. 3. cap. 14. Tully's great acquaintance with Roscius and Aesopus argueth. In the next you do me so much the greater injury, by how much both the turpitude and villainy is greater wherewith you bear your Students in hand that I charge them: and I was farther off from giving cause to be so dealt with, having refrained purposely from naming any of yours in opening of the point. For being to prove that the prohibition of men to put on women's raiment (in Deuteronomie) belongeth to the moral law, and thereupon declaring how it is referred by learned Divines, to the commandment, Thou shalt not commit adultery: I said that they had reason to refer it so, because, among the kinds of adulterous lewdness, men's natural corruption and viciousness is prone to monstrous sin against nature, as the Scripture witnesseth in Canaanites, jews, Corinthians, other in other nations, one with special caution Nimium est quod intelligitur; and the putting of women's attire upon men, may kindle great sparkles of lust thereunto in unclean affections, as Nero showed in Sporus, Heliogabalus in himself; yea certain, who grew not to such excess of impudency, yet arguing the same in causing their boys to wear long hear like women. This, in your examining the sense of Moses words, whereunto I used it, you pass over wholly; without mention of the judgement of the learned Divines, or of my reason given for it. But in the point following, where I handled other inconveniences and discommodities of plays, with special applying thereof unto yours: We pray you Sir (say you) to make a great difference between us and Nero with his Sporus, or Heliogabalus with himself, or the Canaanites, jews, Corinthians, or them that cause their Pages to wear long hear like women, or any such dogs: we heartily abhor them. You say out of Quintilian, Nimium est quod intelligitur: and I may say, Nimium est quod dicitur. We thank God, our youth do not practise such things, they think not of them, they know them not: neither can any man living the rather for our plays charge any one of us with the least suspicion of any such abomination. I have been often moved by our plays to laughter, and sometime to tears: but I can not accuse either myself, or any other, of any such beastly thought stirred up by them. And therefore we should most uncharitably be wronged, if our putting on of Womanly raiment, should either directly or indirectly be referred to the commandment, Thou shalt not commit adultery. All these are your own words. In which that you may see, what your dealing is, behold a pattern of it. There was a certain Preacher, who catechizing his hearers in the principles of faith, and delivering to them h Mat. 5. 〈◊〉. Christ's exposition of the law, Thou shalt not commit adultery; told them that the very looking upon women, whereby men are occasioned to think or lust unchastlie, is a breach thereof. He proved it by the examples of i Gen. 39 7. Putiphars' wife, who cast her eyes on joseph, and fell in love with him; of k job. 31. 1. job, who therefore made a covenant with his eyes, lest he should think upon a maid; of l 2. Sam. 11. 〈◊〉 David, who looking on Bethsabe from his house top, did lust incontinently after her. And because the parties, whom he taught, were scholars, well read in foreign writers, he added how the learned Heathens had declared that m Plato in Crack tylo. Xenophon de dict. & fact. Socr. lib. 1. love doth enter in by the eyes; n Theo. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. 2. Musaeus in Her. & Lean. Virg. ecls. 8. fair persons seen, have made men mad; and in them also is that verified, o Virg. Geor lib. 3. Uritque videndo Foemina; as p 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. lib. 5. Xenophon recordeth Cyrus to have noted; and q Lib. 3. eleg. 19 Propertius found by trial in himself. Now, among the company to which the Preacher spoke, one, not evil minded, yet loving good fellowship, and a more remiss, or well-nigh lose kind of living, fearing least by the credit & force of this doctrine, certain of his friends whom he had made acquainted with beautiful wives, or handsome maids, should grow into suspicion of wantonness and lightness, rose up and said unto the Preacher; We pray you, Sir, to make a great difference between us, and them whom Cyrus speaketh of, or Propertius himself; or Putiphras Wife, job, David, or such as let their eyes be porters unto love, and dote by seeing fair persoons: we heartily mislike them. You say out of Virgil, Uritque videndo Foemina; and I may say, Uritque loquendo Masculus. We thank God, our youth do not practise such things, they think not of them, they know them not: neither can any man living, the rather for our looking on handsome maids, or beautiful Wives, charge any one of us with the least suspicion of any such uncleanness. I have been delighted often with their sight, and sometime moved to pity: but I can not accuse either myself, or any other of any such wicked thought stirred up thereby. And therefore we should most uncharitably be wronged, if the casting of our eyes on wives, or on maids, should either directly or indirectly be referred to the commandment, Thou shalt not commit adultery. What think you of this man, Master D. Gager? Did he not the Preacher wrong? Certainly, if you have the spirit wherewith r 2. Sam. 12. 5 David answered nathan's parable, you will confess, he did. And what ensueth, you see: I need not add, You are the man. But this I must add, that the wrong you do me is so much more palpable, then was this carpers of the Preacher, because I said, that the putting of women's attire upon men, may kindle sparks of lust in unclean affections: I said not, in all men's affections, but in some; not in sanctified, but in unclean. What? And do you grant, that you, and your youth, have unclean affections, to the intent you may blame my speech? If not, why tell you me, that the putting of womanly raiment upon men, hath not stirred any such beastly thought in any of you; when I spoke expressly of unclean affections? Besides, can you accuse yourself, or any other, of any wanton thought stirred up in you by looking on a beautiful Woman? If you can; then ought you beware of beautiful boys transformed into women by putting on their raiment, their feature, looks and fashions. For men may be ravished with love of stones, of dead stuff, framed by cunning gravers to beautiful women's likeness; as, in s Ovid. Metamorp. lib. 10 Poet's fables appeareth by Pygmalion, by t Plin. hist. na. lib. 〈◊〉. ca 38. & li. 36. ca 5 Venus Gnidia in stories: and v Terent. Eun. act. 3. scen. 2. Chaerea, arrayed like an Eunuch only, did move the beastly lust of him who was lasciviouslie given in the Comedy. If you can not: then do you both me, yourself and others, injury in concluding, that therefore you should most uncharitably be wronged, if your putting on of Womanly raiment, should either directly or indirectly be referred to the commandment, Thou shalt not commit adultery. For my speech was general, that the cladding of youths in such attire is an occasion of drawing & provoking corruptly minded men to most heinous wickedness, & therefore should be wisely cut off by the faithful: as if, in a Sermon to the university, expounding that of job, x job. 31. 1. I made a covenant with mine eyes, I should tell the Students, that though he name a maid, we must extend the lesson farther; by y Sophoc. Cic. de offi. lib. 1. Valer. Max. lib. 4. cap. 3. the man's example, whom a worthy governor, in 3 Praetori non solùm manus à pecwiae lucro, sed etiam oculos à libidinoso aspectu continentes esse debere. Val. Max. other words to like effect, admonished of making a covenant with his eyes, for saying; O puerum pulchrum Pericle. Whereupon if any should tell his acquaintance of this, or that College, Tutor, or other, accustomed to cast his eyes on such children as God had adorned with comeliness of body, that I went about to make them suspected of most horrible lewdness, he should do both them and me notorious injury. Albeit, as our Saviour, saying to his Disciples, z Mar. 4. 24. Take heed what you hear, did purpose to stir them up to mark diligently that which he delivered, & faithfully to perform it; yet condemned them not as reckless or unfruitful hearers of his word: so I would acknowledge that in saying likewise, Take heed what you see, my meaning were to stir up both Tutors, and all other, to carry them selves chastely, even in their looks also, lest death come in by their windows, though I mean no more to make them suspected by this admonition, than I do myself. Which if you, who touch me so bitterly, and often, for doing you or yours uncharitable wrong, had charitably marked: I should have less cause of wishing you to play the 4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Gregor. Nazian. apolog. fugae suae. Physician better, & first to heal yourself. This I say not only of my general speeches set upon the rack to make me odious to your Students: but of the particular too, that may be thought to concern them specially. As namely that I mentioned Eurymachus kissing of Melantho: a thing which I gathered to have been done by her own words: 5 Furtiva nullus oscula Eurymachus dabit. Act. 5. sith they were both intended to be alone secretly, when he had 6 Pulcherrima Melantho, quid effari q●…eam? Nemo severam jwenibus legem ferat, etc. Act. 3. fowl unmodest lascivious talk with her; and the music & dancing, 7 Ad strepitum lyrae Non laeta sallies. Act. 5. whereof she speaks withal, was represented on the stage. But I named them only for example sake; my drift being general against such plays as express such actions: whether set forth presently by you; as your Rivales, in which some of the wooers perhaps kissed Phoedra; or heretofore, as a Plauti curculio. that of Plautus, in which * Act. 1. Phaedromus kissed Planesium without perhaps. Wherefore sith you defend your former plays as well as these, and in that respect commend by name Plautus, as you have great reason, comparing any Comedy of his with your Rivales: what aimed you at in saying, that, for the danger of kissing beautiful boys you know not how the suspicion should reach unto you, because it is untrue that Eurymachus kissed Melantho; unless your meaning were to practise that malice (so b Aristot. li. 1. rhet. cap. 1. Vives de tradend. disci●…plin. lib. 4. learned men do justly term it) of rhetoric, I mean, by restraining my general intent unto your present players, to draw me into their hatred? Else, when you inquired of the parties themselves, whether any such action were used by them, and they (you say) denied it constantly: why did you not inquire also of Plautus, whether it were used by Phaedromus, & Planesium, and of the ancients of your house, whether Phoedromus and Planesium came ever on your stage? Sure you should have taken this course by the equity of that which seemeth reasonable to you in your own cause. For, spying by mine answer, that your example of Achilles wearing woman's raiment, did not serve your turn: you reply, that we may imagine such a one as will serve it, with change of a circumstance. And this in your defence must go for sufficient. But the case is altered, when it toucheth me: yea, although my purpose may be proved by true, not by imagined, examples. So indulgent commonly are men unto themselves: so rigorous unto others. Howbeit, I should not complain of this rigour, but for the tail of it, and the sting of breeding evil will among brethren, which doth lurk therein. The venom and poison whereof goeth about to spread itself abroad through more parts of your body, than Phemius, Eurymachus, & the players of women; by means that you likewise instill the same humour, at least seek to instill it as much as in you lieth, into the rest of all your players, their teachers and instructors, and in conclusion your whole house. For whereas the third branch of our reasons, set down by you in Momus his name against plays, had avouched not only their time to be misspent who were employed therein, but some of their persons, their minds, corrupted also; and I, to show how cunningly you, encountering this proposed the loss of time alone and not of men, did declare that Cyprian writing of a stage-player, who made boys effeminate by instructing them how to play the women, and to express and counterfeit unhonest wanton gestures, saith, he was a master not of teaching but spilling children; and thereof did infer, that the loss of time should not have been objected so much against your plays, seeing some of the players (if they were like the youths whom Cyprian speaketh of) might reply as Phaedria, when Parmeno did tell him that his gift bestowed on Thais would be lost, Ego quoque unà pereo, quod mihi est carius; ne istuc tam iniquo patiare animo: behold, with how charitable applying of my words you come in thus upon me, The saying of Saint Cyprian against a stage-player, or of Phaedria of himself to Parmeno, can not be justly used against us. For he should do us great contumely, that should think, or say, that either we are masters not of teaching, but spilling children; or that both time and our young men were cast away altogether by those exercises. And to make a deeper impression in your young men that I do them this contumely, with an other also brought for proof hereof: you go forward thus: But it is no marvel that you imply so ill a coceite of them, if you doubt that, as I answered Momus, our actors can show greater fruit of their time well spent, than any that is bred up by Mo●…usses discipline can. For you pray God that they may: as doubting it is not so. Wherein, first and foremost, if your conscience tell you, that yourself (for whom else you associate to you by we are masters, I know not) are touched in Saint Cyprians reproof of the stage-player: I can no way help it, save with that of Scripture, c 1 joh. 3. 2●… If your heart condemn you, God is greater than your heart, and knoweth all things. But whether I might not allege Saint Cyprians words, to show that somewhat more than time is cast away and spilled by such stage-plays as make boys effeminate: let our betters judge. Who, I trust, will not condemn the poor swallows for chattering and using their voice, agreeably to nature, because d Plutarch. de lenta numinis vindicta. Bessus surmised they cried against him that he had killed his father. Next, in that you charge me with insinuating of your young men, that both time and themselves are cast away altogether by those exercises, and add, it is no marvel that I imply so ill a conceit of them: truly, it is marvel, that you, professing so much good will to me as you do, should in so few words use so many tricks of calumniation to breed a misliking of me in your young men. One, by making me to speak of them at large, and indefinitely: whereas I noted only such as played the Women, and of them such only, as were taught to counterfeit unhonest wanton gestures, that is, as played unchaste women. An other, by adjoining the particle 8 Cast away altogether. Altogether, as if I had judged them dead, dead, past all recovery: whereas the 9 Spilling, in●… S. Cyprians words; & Pereo, in Phaedrias, Ego quoque unà pereo. terms I used imported that they were in spilling, not spilled, much less spilled altogether, but like e Revel. 3. 2. the things in Sardis which were ready to die. A third, by suppressing the means of their spilling, to weet, the making of them effeminate, which I specified; and by setting down a word of more honest and common signification in steed thereof, to weet, 1 By those exercises. exercises: as who say that peremptory sentence had been given of all, even them who played men's parts, yea the best men's; where I censured only the filth of playing wanton queans so with Cyprian. A fourth, by rehearsing it as absolutely pronounced: where I with a 2 If they were like the youths whom Cyprian speaketh of. condition restraining the sentence, did manifestly show that I affirmed it not, except they took like harm with those whom Cyprian speaketh of; and therefore drew my speech from your special players, to the general question. A fifth, by making proof thereof, as good and sound, as the thing proved; in saying, It is no marvel that I imply so ill a conceit of them, if I doubt that your actors can show greater fruit of their time well spent then any that is bred up by Momusses discipline can: and yielding this reason to persuade the young men that I doubt it is not so, because I pray God that they may. Which reason if it hold: then our Oxford Preachers have a bad opinion of the Uicechancelour, the Doctors, the Proctors, the Heads of houses: for they are wont to pray that we may be good; and therefore by your inference they doubt we are not so. And will not your Christ. church Preachers be discredited hereby with your Students, as much as I am: seeing they pray commonly as well for the Students, as for the Dean and Prebendaries? Questionless yourself would think, he did you injury who should say you believe not an article of your faith, the forgiveness of sins. Yet you are accustomed to pray, f Luke 11. 4. Forgive us our sins, when notwithstanding g Mat. 14. 3●… jam. 1. 6. he that doubteth, faileth in belief. And for mine own part, if to one commending the French most Christian King, that he can look wisely enough to his own safety against both open force, & secret fraud of the Leaguers, I should answer (in like sort as I did to you) I pray God he may; sure he shall the better if he never trust them, nor any of that brood of the whore of Babylon: I would be understood, both heartily to wish, and reasonably to hope, that he shall meetelie well be able to do it; although the more able, if he use this caution. Or, if some presumptions moved you to doubt whether I meant thus, or worse: you should have remembered the h L. 56. l. 19●…. § fin. D. de regulis juris. rules of your law for 3 Semper in dubiis benigniora praeferenda sunt: et, In re dubia benigniorem interpretationem sequi, non minus iustius est quàm tutius. gentle construying of things doubtful. But suppose that I had even denied also, not only doubted, that your actors can show greater fruit of their time well spent then any that is bred up by Momusses discipline can: is it therefore likely that I imply so ill a conceit of them as that they are altogether cast away? Yea, you say. And why? Because they could do little, if they could not do so much, and a great deal more, and better, when soever they shall be tried. For what is the discipline of Momus, but the school of carping, nipping, depraving, and reprehending of every good thing? Whereupon you add, to amplify the strange iniquity of my dealing, that of all other things you thought I would not, or could not have taken any exception to that speech of yours. In deed if I had taken the discipline of Momus in that sense you give it; your so ill collection of my so ill conceit should have some probability. But I had declared that by the name of Momus you noted all reproovers of plays. And howsoever that be, whereof more hereafter: dowtlesse I meant scholars trained up by such in godliness and good learning, when I prayed that your actors might show greater fruit of their time well spent, than any that is bred up by Momusses discipline can. Which is plain and evident by the words following, in that I affirmed, that this which you term the discipline of Momus, is not his but Cyprians, or rather the holy Ghosts. For God forbidden that you should proceed from evil to worse in such excess of slandering, as to tell your actors, that I say, the discipline of the holy Ghost is the school of carping, nipping, depraving, & reprehending of every good thing. Now, though my conceit of them be so good, that I am persuaded, or rather know in part, they can show great fruit of their time well spent, and have in trial done it: yet I know withal some of so great towardness brought up by the other, that, if all your actors think they can show greater fruit than any of these, they will make me think their good conceit of themselves is worse than mine ill. And see of how different opinions you and I are about this matter. I know sundry scholars of rare expectation and hope in other Colleges, for whom my prayer is they may show as great fruit of their time well spent as some of these can: and yet in my judgement I have no ill conceit of them. You, unless I think that your Christ-church actors can show much greater fruit, do judge, and give sentence, that my conceit of them is ill: so ill, beyond all hue and cry, that it is a token I imply in covert speech (expounded charitably) that they are cast away, yea, cast away altogether, and irrecoverably lost. Lesser is the wrong, yet a wrong also, that of your actors likewise you say, they are condemned by me to hateful infamy, a thing to all honest minds more intolerable than death itself: and farther, that your house, yourself, and many honest towardly young men, your friends, whom for good causes you heartily love, are charged with open infamy. It may be, the circumstance noted herewithal, in that you add it greeveth you and them not a little, that they should in private, but much more in public, be charged with such infamy: hath reference to the Sermon rather which was preached in the public audience of the university, then to letters written in private unto you. Howbeit, whethersoever of us it toucheth more, your complaint is somewhat partial to yourself: who take in evil part, that we by word or writing should teach or maintain aught whereof there may grow infamy by consequent to you; yet would have us take it well and patiently, that you have set forth and published that in print, whereof there may grow infamy by consequent to us. But the wrong I meant you do me in those clauses of your accusation, concerneth both the matter of crime, and the persons: the matter, for aggravating the quality of the note of infamy, which they are charged with, by terming it hateful, open, more intolerable to all honest minds than death itself: the persons, for extending it from a few members to the whole body, from the players to your house. Concerning the later (to begin with it) beside that you say that in answering my writing you defend your house, not only the particular players, from infamy: you add that they are charged therewith to the general reproach of your house, if so hard a censure should be by men of note enforced and persuaded. And why should you more interpret our action to the general reproach of your house, because we reproved that by word or writing which some of Christ-Church had practised: then we interpret yours to the general reproach of our house, because you defended that by printed treatise, which some of Queen's college had reproved? If the reason be, for that we are men of note who work the discrediting of you: they are men of note too, whose verses you having prefixed before your book, do countenance your disgrace of us. Nether do I see what reason else you bring, or can, but that we shall meet you in the same (speak of consent, or what you list) to wring out of the special reproach of your players the general of your house. As for the former concerning the infamy, the quality whereof not content to amplify with terms that may be common to all infamy in a sort, you name it more intolerable to all honest minds than death itself: whether do you mean the infamy they are charged with by the Civil law, in the first reason; or that which lighteth on them by the law of God, in the reasons following? If by the civil law: then belike a chaste and honestly minded woman, who having lost her husband doth marry within twelve month after his decease, had rather she were dead: and her father likewise, who placeth her so in marriage, had rather he were dead with her. For both these are noted with infamy by the i L. 1. D. de his qui notantur infam jam. L. 1. & 2. c. de secundis n●…ptiis. civil law: and that in such degree, as may be more intolerable and grievous unto them, for aught that I said, then unto your players. If by the law of God: do you not know that 4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. infamy being opposite to 5 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. Cor. 6. 8. good fame, and nothing being counted of 6 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 good fame, 7 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Phil. 4. 8. praiseworthy, but that which is honest, just, pure, virtuous; every fault hath infamy, annexed thereunto; not every fault a little degree and height of infamy, but every fault infamy? Do you not think that all your players have some fault: and account the shame thereof to be more tolerable a great deal, than death? Do you not confess (though tempering it with saying it may be so perhaps) that they have in their playing picked out as it were quails eyes of a wantonness, and offended in some small matter? What needed then your tragical exaggeration of hateful open infamy, more intolerable to all honest minds than death itself: when all that I enforced against them was but infamy? whom sought you to make hateful by that pathetical speech, tending to compassion of Ulysses in show, to somewhat else in deed: Unhappy Ulysses, to whom as it was fatal ever to be in trouble in his life, so is he more hardly dealt withal after his death, that his person may not honestly be resembled without note of infamy to the actor? How skilful an inveigling is this of your players, to think themselves defamed most odiously for ever, when he who played Ulysses part, one of the best, and therefore lest of all touched with that note, is said to be so touched with it, that all the troubles of Ulysses are nothing to his shame? Nay, the shame inflicted on him who played Ulysses, is such a vexation to Ulysses himself, that he is more hardly dealt withal herein (poor soul) after his death, then while in his life time k Homer. Odyss. lib. 9 his sweet wine was drunk, his men were eaten up, two at a meal, by Polyphemus; himself escaped hardly through Polyphemus rams help out of his clutches, not without great fear, I know, when Polyphemus talked with the ram; and beside the danger to be sunk and drowned by the top of a mountain that Polyphemus hurled at him, l Lib. 12. he was tossed in the sea, upon broken pieces of his ship, being wracked, ten nights and nine days, save one wherein he stuck fast to a wild figtree growing in Charybdis; whereof, and of a great deal more m Lib. 5. such woe, he tasted, by n Lib. 10. his men's unhappy letting out of the winds, which Aeolus had given him bound up in a leathren bag or satchel. To make an end of this point, I am to request your Students and your house; because you constrain me (that I may use the o Psal. 69. 4. Prophet's phrase) to restore that which I took not away, that they will consider how the note of infamy, which I did enforce, I enforced it against the parts played by Histrio, not against the Christ church parties who played them; against Roscius & Aesopus, not against the Master of your Choristers; I mean against players, not against those players: as p Orat. in Pis. Tully saith of Piso, that when the 8 Aedilis es factus. Piso est à populo Rom. factus, non iste Piso. Romans gave him the office of the Aedileship, they gave it to Piso, not to this Piso; meaning that in committing such place of honour to him they respected the dignity of his name and stock, not the qualities of his person. For as this Piso, the particular man, was lewd, base, dishonourable; yet Piso, the kindred itself, whereof he came, was honourable and renowned: semblably may players, the general that I spoke of, be esteemed infamous; and yet the same infamy, as small as it is in comparison of the capital marks you fasten on it, be less or none at all in the special persons of your house, of those players. Which, if it be lawful for me to compare lesser things with greater (as I, by the example of q Mat. 13. 3. Mar. 12. 1. Luke 14. 21. and so forth in the Evangelistes commonly. our saviours parables always thought I might, & never heard them called incomparable comparisons till you controlled me with this taunt and the like for using them) I shall make plain unto you by the clear evidence & light of both those laws, whence they are charged. For r Rom. 1. 26. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. wicked persons are infamous; s 1 Pet. 4. 3. idolaters are wicked; they, that offer incense, as t 1 Cor. 10. 20 L. 7. c de paganis & sacrificiis. Paynims did, are idolaters. v Theodoret. hist ecles li. 3. cap. 15 & 16. Zozom. lib. 5. cap. 16 Certain Christian soldiers, not knowing what such offering of incense did import, were by the conveyance of julian the apostata brought to offer it. Who, when they were afterward informed, what they had done, returned back to julian, professing and protesting themselves to be Christians, persisting in the faith, and praying they might die for it. Were these infamous for that fact? No: because their hand did offend through ignorance (saith the x Theodor & Zozomen in the places quoted. Ca●…iodor. in the Triparti. lib. 6 ca 30. Nicephorus lib. 10. ca 23 and others after them. Ecclesiastical history) their mind was pure and guiltless. And although their ignorance of Luk. 12. 48 L. 9 D de juris & facti ignorantia. L. 12. c. eod. the law was faulty, the mother of their error: yet z L. 9 D. de iur. & fact. ignor. §. Si filius familias. l. 1. ca eod. man's constitutions bearing with soldiers that way, and a 1 Tim. 1. 13 God forgiving his servants greater oversights, who dare condemn them for their fall? Those monsters of nature, which b Rom. 1. 27. burning in their lust one toward an other, men with men work filthiness, are as infamous, as c Gen. 18. 20. Sodom: not the doers only, but the d 1 Cor. 6. 9 sufferers also. A e Sleidan li. 19 young Italian Gentleman, named Cosmus Cherius, had that horrible villainy wrought through force upon him by Petrus Aloisius Pope Paul the thirds son. Was he infamous for his suffering? No more than f Livi. lib. 1. Lucretia for violence done by Tarquin, how soever he died for sorrow and shame of it: the law of g Deut. 22. 25 God and h L. 1. D. de postulando §. removet. man both will acquitt him. In a word, i Rom. 1. 29. all impious and unhonest wretches, namely the unrighteous, fornicators, adulterous, thieves, covetous, drunkards, railers, extortioners, are infamous. The k 1 Cor. 6. 11 Corinthians had been such, but they repent. Were they infamous for their vices? A l Seneca in Agamen. natural man might stick hereat in 9 Quem poenitet peccasse poen●… est innocens. He saith not, planè est innocens, but poenè. some part: but Saint Paul denieth it. For m 1 Cor. 1. 2. and 6. 11. he saith, they were sanctified, holy, washed, justified: and such as are cleansed from the filth of sin, are cleansed from the blemish & reproach thereof; no just and holy man is infamous. In the like sort therefore may a note of infamy remain upon players: and yet be removed as far from your players, as is the East from the West. For what if some of them knew not this point of law? and were of such l Minoribus viginti quinque annis ius ignorare permissum est. age too (which they were all perhaps, at least the players of women's parts) as the n Lus. D. de jur & fact. igno. law exeuseth for ignorance thereof? What if others were commanded to play by their superiors, whom they durst not displease; and so were in a manner o L. 1D. Quod metus causa gestum erit. L. 12. c. de his quae vi, 〈◊〉 cau●… enforced thereunto; excused by p Orat. p●… Coelio. Tully for 2 Si jussus 〈◊〉 accusare: necessitati tribuo. necessity? What if a third sort, or more, even these also, have since repent their playing, and thereby q Esai. 1. 16. Washed themselves, and made themselves clean? Or if neither ignorance, nor force, nor repentance, had either diminished that ignominious blot, or clean abolished it; the contrary whereof I am persuaded by the good nature, and honest ingenuity of such of the parties as I know; but if they had not: yet I being taught to presume the best by him who sayeth that r 1. Cor. 13. 〈◊〉 charity believeth all things, hopeth all things, was to deem they had, and so I do still. Yea, although you say it grieveth them not a little that they should in private, but much more in public, be charged with infamy, I believe and hope so much the better of them: knowing that there is a s 2. Cor. 7. 9 grief to repentance, which the Lord worketh in his by such reproofs; and it was well with t Mat. 26. 75. Peter, when he wept bitterly. Wherefore having this persuasion of your players, even of them for whose parts I charged plays most, namely Hippodamia, Melantho, the Nyph, Phaedra, & her Nurse; if I should have noted them as infamous, them I say, not their parts, these players and not players; I should have taken on me the judgement that belongeth unto the searcher of hearts and reins, and spoken against mine own conscience. Which if you have made them believe I love them so ill, by reason of the bad conceit I have of them, that I would do of spite and malice to discredit them: yet let me entreat them to think I love myself better, then that I would through their sides wound mine own; who, when I was about the age that they are, six and twenty years since, did play a woman's part upon the same stage, the part of Hippolyta. As for you, who pretending in your proposition you would assay to show that the truth in this controversy belongeth rather to your answers, then to the reasons fathered on Momus, do afterward endeavour in your confutation to obscure & darken the truth with mists of pity and human affections, inculcating that it would be a contumely to this or that youth with many, unless the cause be won on your side: let me entreat you likewise to regard hereafter, if not my most reasonable petition and desire, yet your own conclusion; who, saying you may grant without offence, you trust, that your censure of Momus in the generality lighteth upon me, do add these words to prove it; For the main matter is not, whether you had occasion to think yourself to be touched in the generality, or no, being of that opinion you are, but whether the opinion be justifiable, or no. Which point if you remember in your next reply, though next reply rather I need not much to fear if this point be remembered, no more than Cato needed to fear Galbas' answer, who had been condemned except he had used boys & tears, as v Cic. lib. 1. de oratore. Cato wrote; but, had you remembered it in your last reply: you might have induced me the more easily to hearken unto your advice and request, that I should rather deal with you by private conference then by further writing, if you had greatly erred in any thing. For the truth and equity of that which I said in defence of the reasons fathered on Momus to the reproof of plays, is so undoubted and manifest of itself; that men of understanding and sense, who should compare your reply with it, must (though I kept silence) needs perceive your stomach was sick of that 3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hypocrates termeth it. Aphorism. sect. 2. Apho. 21. hunger, which for an inordinate appetite it breedeth, x Galen. in aphoris. Hippocra. lib. 2. Alex. Tralli. lib. 7. cap. 3 Physicians call 4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. the dogged appetite: more greedily disposed to devour and swallow up all that it met with, then able to concoct or to retain well aught that it had taken. A proof hereof you give in your very beginning by crossing of my proême. Wherein I having thanked you for that by enlarging your answer to Momus, you showed why you thought our reasons to be nought, sith that your reproving thereof did touch me also, who took them not to be rascal reproaches, as you termed them, but sound reasons: every branch hereof you carp and check. But how? First, where I had written, that as our Saviour, when he was smitten by one for speaking nought but reason, said, If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil; but if well, why dost thou smite me? so they, whose objections against plays you attributed to the person of Momus, might justly say in my judgement, If our reasons be nought, discover their naughtiness; if good, why do you Mome us? You reply, that no man can rightly say to you, If our reasons be nought, discover their naughtiness; if good, why do you Mome us? as Christ might truly say, If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil; but if well, why dost thou smite me? because he undoubtedly had said nothing but reason, and therefore was most unjustly smitten; but the objections in your case and against you, are most untrue, and there is no man smitten by you. Then which speech of yours (I pray you be not offended with me for my plainness) I never read any, to my remembrance, more void of reason. For our saviours dilemma (according to y Hermogen. de invent. 〈◊〉. 4 ex Demost. de corona. Cic. lib. 1. de invent sub no mine complexion. the natural force of that argument) was made to apprehend and hold fast his adversary whether soever himself had spoken, evil, or well. So that, when the z Mat. 27. 38. two thieves, who suffered with Christ, and a Luke 23. 41. deserved death, were brought into judgement, in case the judge had offered to give sentence against them b Act. 25. 16. before they * heard why, they might have justly said, If we have rob any, bear witness of our robbery; if not, why do you condemn us? Wherefore when, to reprove the former part of my dilemma, you affirm that no man can rightly say unto you, If our reasons be nought, discover their naughtiness, because Christ undoubtedly had said nothing but reason: undoubtedly yourself do speak beside all reason. As much in a manner, as beside the truth, when to reprove the later part thereof you add, that you do Mome no man. For so must I interpret your words of smiting no man: or else you speak beside all reason herein too, when upon my citing Christ's words, Why dost thou smite me, by way of similitude to your Moming us, you say, no man is smitten by you. But that some are smitten by you with Momus name, even all reproovers of plays, and so (which is the next branch you pluck at) myself; I showed by the meaning of the tale of Momus, opened out of Aristotle, joined with your applying thereof unto a person who chargeth plays as we do. To the refutation whereof it maketh nothing, that when you declared you did enlarge therefore your answer unto Momus, because I and others had asked why the things by him objected were not answered, you say that by others you meant some of your friends, not reprovers of plays: and that you had no purpose to touch me in particular, nor knew, when you conceived and penned the devise of Momus, that I had reproved them. For was it the man in the moon, trow we, whose 5 Probra Arrepta quae cógessit ex triviis. rascal reproaches, or (as you correct it) trivial and common, you put in the mouth of Momus, and made your Epilog control them? Or was it some on earth, whose speeches, being noted by you as common and taunting, do argue that they had one or more authors, not friends, but adversaries of plays? Moreover, when you tell me, that till you understood it by me and by a Preacher of late, you never thought that either I, or any other, in the University had abbetted Momus objections: do you not confess, that, ere you wrote this, you understood it of us two? And can you persuade yourself that we two alone, and no body else, are abetters of them? Nay, do you not signify that you see there are more, when, speaking of others, you say you mean●… not such, as you perceive by me there are, who should mislike your plays; and by way of opposing me and them to Many, you name us One or a Few? You acknowledge then, that notwithstanding yourself meant not these by others, yet certain such there are. Neither can your using the devise of Criticus & Zoilus in like manner to rebuke the carpers of your own Tragedy as curious and malicious, permit you to deny with any colour of probability that you meant to note these by Momus name. Chiefly now that you have expressly fastened it on them in your reply: saying in excuse of the time, the Sunday, whereon your Tragedy was played, that some of them, it may be, who misliked your plays, were worse occupied than your actors were on the same night, playing Momus part in good earnest before you, which you did afterward but for pastime. Wherefore your complaining that you know not whom, nor very well what, I mean by They & Us, in that I said, They whose objections, and, Why do you Mome us, is frivolous and idle, to say no worse of it: frivolous, because you know I mean the Preacher, myself, and all abetters of Momus his objections: idle, because albeit you knew not whom I mean, yet my speech is found, that, They, whose objections against plays, you attributed to the person of Momus, might justly say in my judgement, If our reasons be nought, discover their naughtiness; if good, Why do you Morn us? More idle and frivolous is your labouring to persuade me, that I had no just occasion to suspect that your purpose was therein to touch me, to tax me in particular; both by discoursing that those two inducements, to weet, my reproving of Theater-sights and stage-plays in the Preface of my Thesis, and my reasons given thereof in letters to D. Thornton, which I (so you affirm) did chiefly allege to prove my conjecture, are not enough to prove it, in as much as you had not read the one of them, nor heard of the other: and by most earnestly avouching coram Deo (as if an c Gal. 1. 20. oath needed to clear you from my wrongful opinion and surmise) that your meaning only was to move delight in the auditory, with the novelty of the invention, and the person; and to object those things against yourselves by your selves, which might abate all suspicion of vain glory or self-pleasing in you; and so by this means, as it were with a slight, to shift of all occasion of others ill speaking, when you had prevented them with as ill as mought be. I say, this is more idle and frivolous than the former, because I was so far from making any show of suspecting myself to be touched purposely by you in particular: that contrariwise I signified I thought myself touched, not so, but in general; by the censure lighting, not in your intent, but in event, upon me. And for this respect alone, not for the other, did I allege those writings of mine, which you mention; to prove, not a conjecture thereby, but a certainty, that I was a reproover of plays; and therefore sith you meant to note all such reproovers under the name of Momus, as I showed withal, must needs think myself to be touched therein. Which also I delivered with such care of plainness and perspicuity, distinguishing eftsoons your intent of noting no particular man from your general note touching me by consequent, that as on the one part you could not choose but grant that I had occasion to think myself touched in the generality; likewise of the other, you were enforced to see, that I gave no token of any way suspecting you to have intended particularly to tax me. In so much that yourself, encountering as it were your discourse thereof, acknowledge it expressly with these very words; But that I had no purpose by Momus side to wound you, according to the law of charity, upon my former protestation, you do most gladly credit me, as you writ; and with these, The matter is cleared in your good mind; thus yourself commend me, and heartily thank me for it. A strange kind of dealing to charge a man with thinking amiss of your purpose, who, by your own confession, thinketh rightly of it; to touch him as breaking the law of charity through false surmises, who keepeth it in your own judgement; to take the name of God for effecting with him by new protestation, that which your former protestation, yourself say, had obtained of him; by manifest misconstruction to press out of his writing a point whereof he writeth the contrary, as yourself witness; to control a thing as misdeemed by him upon erroneous conjecture, which your own conscience testified to you, and your own mouth to others, that it is cleared in his mind; finally to pretend, that being assaulted by one who sought your life, you were compelled to enter a long combat with him, when you grant straightways upon the end thereof that no man did assault you; it was a post only, whereon you set a helmet to make it seem a man, that so by valiant foining at it, and hacking of it, you might get the credit of having slain an enemy, and left him in the place as dead as a door nail. The d Alex. Trallian. li. 7. ca 3. A●…tius tretrab. 3. serm. 6. cap. 21. Physicians note, that such as are diseased with that kind of hungry sickness, which I mentioned, have a greedy appetite to be eating still: but being unable to keep that they have eaten, do cast it up by vomit; and then eat more, and vomit again; and eat eftsoons, and vomit. How like a distemper you are fallen into, through desire of swallowing up & contradicting all that I had written, which yet your want of strength to hold and maintain doth force you to regorge and yield: your going onward in this course bewrayeth farther. For I, to show how all reproovers of plays are noted as unjust reproovers by your tale of Momus, declared out of Aristotle, that it was devised to check such as reprove unjustly the best and perfitest works of the most wise and skilful. You reply that you brought him not in so much in that sense that Aristotle speaketh of, as a reproover of the best and perfitest works of the most wise and skilful; for I never took (say you) either ourselves, or our plays to be such: but as we commonly take him as a carper, and a pincher at all things that are done with any opinion of well doing. Wherein with one breath you overthwart, and grant, the purport of my speech. You overthwart it in saying that you brought Momus in, as we commonly take him; & opposing this point to the point I mentioned, Not in that sense that Aristotle speaketh of, but thus: You grant it in confessing that you brought him in also in that sense, though not so much in that sense: which I said not you did so much, but only that you did it. And albeit herein by gainsaying me with your, Not, and But, you may seem to charge me with saying that you brought him in so much in that sense: yet you meant rather by cunning interlacing of those words, so much, closely to discharge your mouth of a morsel, which you had taken in, and felt it overhoott and burning. For having alleged 6 Ipsamque reprehendit artificem om nium. Quod capire tauris cornua, haud armis daret. the very same that Aristotle, how Momus carped Nature, the Creator of all things, that is, God, I trow, the most wise and skilful framer of the best and perfitest works: you add, that 7 Sic matre Nocte genitus ●…ac Somno Patre, Nihil ipse praestans optimos carpit tamen after this sort, Momus (whom you bring in) though doing nought himself, yet carpeth at the best; and hath with these and these tants declaimed against your plays. So, whereas your reason, that you never took yourselves or your plays to be such, should import that you brought him not in at all in that sense; and then had I affirmed amiss, that you rehearsed the tale to such purpose: your ground thereof allayed with the terms, so much, implieth that you grant, that the thing itself, which I affirmed, is true, and that you were disposed to play by this conveyance a juggling trick of fast and lose. Again, whereas I noted that you called our reasons, attributed to Momus, rascal reproaches, using the English words to express your Latin, probra arrepta ex triviis: first you wish I had not so tanslated it, for that the words in Latin naturally sound not so hardly; yet afterward you grant that you know the words may be so properly translated. Whereof in the later how manifestly you cast up that which you swallowed in the former, appeareth by your labouring to confirm the former, what with e De verbo●…. significat. lib. 1. Alciats saying, that words must be generally taken so far forth as their propriety may bear; what with your own denying that * In your copy sent me, it is, arrepta ex triviis: which greater injury if you meant to sup press the word probra Which that you did, you give me occasion to suspect, because before likewise, you cite it, leaving out the word, & English it common & trivial speeches: yet because in another copy, given by you abroad, belike after mine, I find the word here: I take the omitting thereof in my copy to be a slip of your pen, and therefore do insert it. probra arrepta ex triviis do most properly and principally signify rascal reproaches. Most properly, and principally; a like feat in adding to the word properly, most, and principally, as before in thrusting in the terms, so much: sith neither in the clause, which answereth to this, you join most with naturally; nor say out of Alciat, that words must be taken as their most principal propriety may bear (though by an 8 Primus autem intellectus proprietatis est sua uniuscujusque rei appellatio other note of his, 9 From parag. 5. as if it ensued the rest of the words you cite out of Paragr. 10 displaced cunningly, and racked hereunto, it seemeth you would feign imply it) but as their propriety. Howbeit, if I list to press you therein also, perhaps the same phrase, arnipere maledictum ex trivio, used by f Orat. pro. Muraen. Tully, and compared with Alciats meaning of most proper and principal signification, would prove that probra arrepta ex triviis do most properly and principally signify rascal reproaches. Sure they have been deemed skilful of both languages, who taking on them to deliver the principal and most proper signification of Latin words, have Englished maledictum arreptum ex trivio, 1 Eliota biblioth. aucta à coopero, edit. ann. 1548. in the word arripio. a reproach or tant, which is commonly spoken by every railing knave, or, 2 The same, in the same place edit. ●…t. that is common in every varlets mouth: and what doth this, I pray you, differ from rascal? But sith yourself acknowledge that words naturally do sound and signify that which they signife properly, and that these in question may be translated properly as I did translate them: you show that in affirming they do not naturally sound so hardly, you controlled as false that which yourself knew to be true, yea, which you needs must so acknowledge. In like sort do you cross your me, nay, you cross yourself, when in an other inditement that you draw against me for the same Englishing of your Latin, to weet, that though the words may be so properly translated, yet not to your mind so properly, that is, not so gently as you meant them, and therefore I did mistranslate them: you say that in law and reason they are ever to be interpreted according to their natural and proper signification, unless we conjecture that he who speak them meant otherwise; and no man can justly conjecture that you meant to use any honest man with so illtermes, when you meant no man at all. See the pitiful taking of such as seek devises to bolster out untruths for their credit's sake: who by those very shifts, by which they hope to scape, are oftentimes entangled, and as it were with nets or chains entrapped faster. Your own affirmation, that you meant no man at all, doth give me just cause of conjecturing that you meant to use the term of rascal, as well as of reproaches, be they never so ill. For in that you say, that you meant no man at all, you intent your former speech, that you meant Momus only. Now you charged Momus with a 3 Ipsum esse Momum lingua tam ●…da arguit. filthy tongue, an 4 Dira facies. ugly face, a 5 Quis huius oris spiritum effugiat gravem? stinking breath, an 6 Comae color improbus Ardens capilli quis domet virus tui? ill favoured ghastly rammish bush of hear: and can no man justly conjecture that you meant to use him with so ill terms, as rascal reproaches? You called him a 7 Obiicere tali me queam spectro, Deos Hominesque, naturamque carpenti impie; Odioque Diis proptereà hominibusque optimis. spirit, an impious carper of the Gods, of men, and of nature, a person therefore odious and detestable to the Gods, and to the best men: and can no man justly conjecture that you meant to use him with so ill terms, as rascal reproaches? You reported of him that 8 Linguaeque tactu foedat imundo omnia. he defileth all things with the unclean touch of his tongue; that 9 Inscitia tibi ut impunè sit, & animi stupor Pietas putetur? he is unskilful, dull, or sottish rather: & can no man justly conjecture that you meant to use him with so ill terms, as rascal reproaches? But what do I reason out of your former writing that I had cause to think so: when yourself, in this, do give most evident & clear tokens that you meant so? For you say expressly that you made Momus to speak as ill as mought be; neither cared greatly what you made him say, as thinking any such thing became him well enough: nor talked otherwise of him, then as of a carper, a nipper, a depraver, and a reprehender of every goodthing. And can you deny that your meaning was to speak of his reproaches as rascal, base and contemptible, whom you made purposely to speak as ill as mought be, and cared not what you made him say? or dare you affirm you meant to use him gently, whom you accuse of carping, nipping, depraving, and reprehending all good things, and do rough hew him in such sort? You tell me that how words are to be taken in charity I know better than you: but in law and reason they are to be interpreted with this rule of the speakers meaning. Belike because you weened that you had proved hereby, (chiefly having quoted thereto a g Alciat. de verb. signifi. lib. 1. lawyers text,) that, look in what sense you say you meant your words, in that I must interpret them by law and reason: you thought that I was likewise in charity bound to think that you meant them so, in as much as the scripture saith, h 1 Cor. 13. 7 Charity believeth all things. But you should have marked that the scripture saith also, i Prov. 14. 15 A fool believeth every thing: and he who exhorteth the faithful to be charitable, dehorteth them from doing foolishly, k Ephe. 5. 15. Walk not as fools, but as wise. A sure demonstration, that charity is said to believe all things, not properly, but in a figure; not simply all, but a number; even all that a good man in wisdom may believe. And to l 2 Thes. 2. 11 believe untruths, is a point of folly; repugnant, as to wisdom, so consequently to charity: which in the m 1 Cor. 13. 6 same parcel of scripture is said, not to rejoice in iniquity, but to rejoice at the truth. Wherefore seeing reason doth show by sundry circumstances, that you say untruely, You meant not to use so ill and hard terms, as rascal reproaches; and this is the natural and proper signification of your Latin words, which therefore must be so interpreted by law: it were to be wished, that you learned better what charity requireth, before you raise uncharitable suspicions of others as sinning against it when they do not; and than it might be hoped you would no more pretend the name of law or reason, to plaster your unreasonable and unlawful blaming of things delivered rightly according both to law and reason. n Olympior. Hymn. 6. Pindarus saith, that men who take works in hand, must set them forth with beautiful forefrontes and entries. The less do I marvel that you who make so bad a beginning of your work, deal worse, if worse might be, and more perverslie in the rest. Whereof to reserve for their several places the proof that in a manner all the particulars yield; two general kinds of seely evasions and shifts may serve for the first taste: one, that when you see your arguments refuted, you deny them to be yours; an other that you say, you used them not to us, but to Momus; and by this fine devise you neither answer Momus, nor us. For examples sake, whereas to the objection made out of the word of God against your plays, that it is unlawful for men to put on women's raiment, you replied that it is not unlawful simply and always, as if one do it to save his life, to benefit many: I showed that this reason is unsound and nought:; A man to save his life or country, may do it; He may do it therefore to play a part on a stage. Hereunto you answer, that you do not thus argue, It is lawful in such and such cases to put on women's raiment; Ergo it is lawful to do it in plays: but thus; ergo it is not simply unlawful so to do. And did you argue thus in deed, neither concluded you, that it is lawful therefore to do it in plays? Certes than you disputed valiantly against Momus, who 1 Praeclara res est Mimus, & gestum assequi, Simulare vultum ac verba, testari Deos, Et sub puella tegere iuvenem puberem. reproved plays because young men are clad like maidens therein. But your whole discourse doth argue that this argument whereof you are ashamed (well, if you would also ingenuously confess it) was intended by you. For you professed that albeit you thought Momus rascal reproaches against plays worthier to be laughed at, then to be refuted: 2 Graviora paucis excutere fas sit tamen. yet the weightiest of them you would in few words shake out of their rags; or who soever you will translate your excutere, applied to those rascals. Now by what consequence doth your answer shake that reproach of his, unless it conclude that men may be lawfully clad in plays like women? Or who is so blind that reading your reply, perceiveth not your 3 Non ergo vestis faeminea iuveni est scelus, sed prava mens, libido, etc. second Ergo, I say your second, For the 4 Non ergo iweni est grand simpliciter nefas Mollem puell endure first (I grant) concludeth, that it is not simply unlawful so to do; but the second Ergo, with the 5 Quid simile nobis obiicere quisquam potest? assumption following, and the 6 Maledicta textú glossa quae vitiat bonum. Epiphonema, directly do imply a contradicting of Momus; and therefore a concluding out of the former point, that, because it is lawful in such and such cases to put on women's raiment, Ergo it is lawful to do it in plays? What? And when you said that 7 Nec habitus ullus, sed ani mus turpem facit. no apparel but the mind doth make a man dishonest, meant you not that men may wear women's raiment with honesty in plays? When you concluded that 8 Quae dixit in nos alia diluere haud placet. You list not wash away other things which Momus spoke against you: did you not imply that herein you had met with his blaming you for young men made maidens on the stage? When you begged a 9 Proinde disrumpantur ut Momo ilia, Iterum benignus undique applausus sonnet. second Plaudite of the beholders, that the guts of Momus might burst for spite asunder: sought you their approbation of Achilles changing his sex to save his life; or of Melanthos doing it to feed theatrical humours? In the o Lib. 2. ca 30 Greek Epigrams we read of two deaf men impleading one the other before a deaf judge. Amongst whom when the plaintiff objected to the defendant, that he ought him five months rend for his house, and the defendant answered that he was grinding corn at the mill that night: What a God's name, quoth the judge, what needeth this contention? Hath not each of you a mother? Let each find his own. I am glad, Mr D. Gager, that by your appealing to the judgement of our betters, we have agreed on judges who hear well enough. For they, understanding how your Ulysses redux is penned and was played, will judge that you are not deaf: as p Cic. de Senect. their like at Athens having heard Oedipus Coloneus read, a tragedy written by Sophocles, gave sentence that he was not a sot or doting man. And therefore, though you tell them that in your reply, of grinding at the mill, you meant to prove only that you hurt not Momus by seeking of his life or purse that night on Salsbery plain: yet they, considering wisely that you professed to answer his bill of complaint touching the five months rent, will think you argued thus against him; I was grinding corn at the mill that night, Ergo I own him not five months rend for his house. Neither can I doubt but they will in like sort mislike your other practice, of saying that you spoke not to us but to Momus, and so slipping away with answering neither him, nor us. As when you asked us in Momus person, (so I took it) Dare ye despise learned poetry? secretly to infer thereby your main conclusion, that if learned poetry may not be despised, your students may be actors of learned Poets plays; and I out of St Paul did refel this argument: you reply that you asked not of me, or them, or any man but Momus, any such question. Which thing you do not only avouch upon your word, affirming that you should be believed: but you cite your writing also to prove it, An tu Poësin despicere doctam audeas? Urging that you said not, An vos; but An tu. Many grievous pangs of that hungry sickness, which, for the symptomata of eating still and vomiting, Physicians (as I showed) do name the dogged appetit, appear in your whole reply. But none more grievous in any part thereof, then here, where, through the sharpness and outrage of your humour, you fulfil that proverb, (your 1 Crudelem medicum intemperans aeger facit. Publius Syrus intemperance forceth me to be more cruel, I mean, to use more loathsome & displeasant speeches then otherwise I would, specially to persons of your state and quality) you fulfil, I say, that proverb of Solomon, q Prov. 26. 〈◊〉 A dog returneth to his vomit. Yea, in so much worse sort do you sup this again up, which you vomited before, of meaning neither me nor any other man in your reproof of Momus: because you add such reasons to prove you meant not us in ask that question, as yourself must needs know you uttered but a sick man's dream. For (to begin with the later, which is the stronger of them) yourself do acknowledge upon my proof thereof out of your own words, that in r Epistola ad Criticum. your reproof of Criticus and Zoilus, whosoever findeth such fault with your Tragedy, as you control them for, him you meant to note as a malicious Zoilus, and a carping Critic. Yet the Critic you speak to in the singular number, as well as to Momus: You answer to his sundry checks of your epistle, Rectè tu quidem ista, Critice, si scriberem epigrammata: you say not vos, but tu. You note him for his 2 Ita es ingeniose maledicus. witty railing at your Tragedy, Profectò ipsum te esse Criticum oportet: you say not vos, but te. You detest his foolish & quarrelsome wranglings, Emoriar si amem lights, saltem criticas, id est futiles, id est tuas, Critice: you say not vestras, but tuas. You come upon him eftsoons, again, and again, with 3 Quid enim putidius, quàm quod tu facere soles? tu, and 4 Tu improbè facis, qui in alieno libello nimis es ingeniosus. tu, and tuae; and, Critice, as to one still: you say not vos Critici, vos Critici, and vestrae. Wherefore if notwithstanding your form of speech to one in the singular number, you inten deed it to all, as curious carpers, who will be picking quarrels at your Tragedie-writing: alas, What was become of your wits and senses, when by such a cavil you thought to convince me, that, because you said not An vos, but An tu, you meant not 5 Lector debebit tuae, id est, malae linguae. your speech to me and all others, as unjust reproovers, who will be finding fault with your enterlude-playing? Those s Zac. 11. 17. idole-pastors of the Church, t Tit. 1. 12. evil beasts, and slowbellies, who v Psal. 115. 5 have mouths, and speak not; eyes, and see not; feet, and go not; who x Ezek. 34. 2. feed themselves and not their flocks, but y Amos. 6. 〈◊〉 take their ease in Zion; do seek with faces harder than brass, and hearts than adamant, to besott themselves, and persuade others, that z Luk. 19 22. Christ's reproof of the wicked servant, which employed not the moony he receved as his master charged him in trade and traffic to his advantage, belongeth not to them. But amongst their wretched excuses and defences of their nonresidence, though as lewd and brainsick many, as this is, yet never heard I this; that Christ speaketh not to them; but to a lozel who laid up his money in a napkin, because his words are, of thine own mouth will I judge thee, o evil servant; he saith not, of your own mouths, but of thine; not, I will judge you, but thee. The covetous engrossers of wealth & slaves of Mammon, who a Esai. 5. 8. join house to house, and lay field to field, till there be no place; whose b job. 31. 24. hope is their gold; whose c Amos. 8. 5. godliness their gain; whose d Luk. 12. 17. meditation, what shall I do? I will pull down my barns and build greater, and therein will I gather all my fruits and my goods; and I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; live at ease, eat, drink, and be merry: these worldlings feign would flatter themselves with assurance of many years life, and much would they give for a lease thereof. But I think they are not so full of e 1. Sa. 25. 25 Nabals' quality, that the Lords advertisement f Luk. 12. 20. o fool, this night shall thy soul be fetched away from thee, they will reject by noting he saith, thy soul from thee, he saith not, yours from you: and thereupon imagine they are not tenants at will, nor may be turned out of their g job. 4. 19 houses of clay upon an hours warning, nay upon no warning given them at all. h Orat. pro Muraen. Tully maketh mention of some witty lawyers, who, because they found the name of Caia set down for example sake in some author's books treating of a certain solemnity in betrothing, they thought that every woman so betrothed and married should be called Caia. A conceit, that seemed ridiculous to Tully: yet coming far behind that which yours implieth, that no other woman but Caia alone was meant in the treatise, and therefore none but she might be so betrothed. By consequence whereof if you had lived in those days, you must have maintained that it was not lawful for any to be married but only john and joane, I would say Caius and Caia. For i Plutar. Romanor. institutor. ca 30. the manner was that they, who brought the bride into the bridegrooms house, did bid her use this speech, Ubi tu Caius, ego Caia: not making any mention of Lucius and Lucia, Sempronius and Sempronia, but of Caius and Caia; neither saying nos, & vos, but tu & ego. Now if the stronger of your reasons hinder not but your demand might be made to us: much less doth the weaker. For whereas you tell us, that you demanded not of me, or them, or any man but Momus, any such question, if you may be believed; as, why you should not, you see no cause: first how prove you this, that you see no cause, why you should not be believed? Forsooth because you were as sure (you say) that I or any learned man did not despise poetry, as you were certain that Momus did. O miserable blindness shall I say? or madness, wherewith your humorous greediness of crossing me distracted you. As who say you had not so much the greater reason to ask us such a question, because you were sure that we did not despise poetry. Else you must affirm that when Christ demanded, k Matt. 12. 12 what man shall there be among you that hath a sheep, who, if it fall on a Sabbat day into a pit, will not take holdof it, and lift it out? He asked not any such question of the Phariseiss, or Scribes, or any man, but your Momus brethren, that is, the men whom fancies imagine in the clouds: because he was as sure that the Phariseiss or any wise man would not suffer his sheep to lie in the pit on the Sabbat day, as he was certain that the clouds would. For if you perceive that Christ, to make the Phariseiss confess that it is lawful to heal a man on a Sabbat day, had reason to demand whether they would not lift up their sheep out of a pit then, which he knew they would; that by granting this they might discern the better they must needs grant that: how could you choose but see, that your purpose being to make us confess, that comedies & tragedies may be lawfully played, you had like reason to ask whether we did despise learned poetry, which you were sure we did not; that by granting this (you thought) we might the rather be forced to grant that. Wherefore sith-even herein there was cause sufficient to make me imagine that you did demand the question of us: you should conclude rather that your sight was nought, who saw not so much, then that, because you saw it not, you should be believed affirming the contrary. Moreover, to admit there was no cause herein why you should not be believed, yet might there be in somewhat else: and such, as you should also have easily espied, unless the inordinate passion of your mind had dazzled your sight. For your l L 2. D. de testibus. l. 27 D. ad leg. Corn. de fals. law informed you that they, who are unconstant and light in their testimonies, must not be believed: Now, though you perceive not your own fault therein, as m Politicor. lib. 3. cap. 12 Aristotle saith, Physicians being sick can not discern the truth touching their own diseases because of their distemper, and therefore do they use the help of other Physicians: the events of your hungry sickness, which I noted, do manifestly argue, that you wavered much in saying and unsaying the same when you wrote to me. And how small account of yielding to the truth you make in these matters, you had showed before when n Epist. ad Criticum. you told Criticus, that 6 Haud seio an vera ista sint: fortasse non multum absunt à veris Sed tamen libet ire contrà. you know not whether those things be true, which he objecteth; and perhaps they are not far from being true: yet are you disposed to go against them, to cross them. You might see cause therefore why you should not be believed in that you affirm you demanded not of us, or any man but Momus, any such question. Howbeit granting this, which you so wrestle for, what say you then to Momus; I mean to the argument implied in your demand to him, and proved by mine answer to be nought and defective? Nay, not a word to that. Only, as if you would say that you were disposed to spur him idle questions, and not to reason against him; or that, although the reason meant therein were nought, yet good enough for him whom you make a Mome and feign to yourself a foolish adversary, a thing that o Lib. 5. ca 13 Declamatores in primis sunt admonendi, ne sibi stultum adversarium fingant. Facimus autem etc. Quintilian misliketh in declaimers; you say that you asked it of no man but of Momus. Thus in these general and common kinds of miserable evasions and shifts through the mist whereof you would scape away: our judges will acknowledge (I hope) that your intent was rather to seek corners for hiding of your fault, then to confess your oversights and yield the victory to the truth. Surely, for mine own part, your dealing doth persuade me that when you resolved to reply upon me, you thought with yourself the same that you uttered in your epistle unto Criticus: I know not whether these things be true which he writeth; and perhaps they are not far from being true, 7 Sed tamen libet ite contrà. yet am I disposed to have a crash against them. Yea, even for the branches and points whereunto you stand in the particulars, the four heads of reasons, neither denying their drift, the mark they aimed at; nor excusing them as fair against Momus, though they come nothing near the mark: albeit you deal with greater probability, and therefore carry yourself the bolder, yet deal you like yourself, and lay still the colours of probability on sophistry. For whereas in the first, concerning the judgement of the ancient Romans holding all stage-players infamous by their law, you said that the Praetor pronounced none infamous but such as played for gain sake, and I proved the contrary by the Praetor's words: you reply that the Praetor meant the same that you say, though his words were general of stage-players without distinction. This in the foremost rank, if it will prevail. If not; you add thereto, that the actors of your plays are no stage-players. But how false both these things are, and how fraudulently sought to be avouched: our bettets, if it please them to compare my proofs with your reply, shall see. For Tully, as I showed, affirmeth that the Romans counting all kinds of stageplays shameful and dishonest, agreed that such as played them should not only want the honour of other citizens, but also be disfranchised: Which, for the last note of infamy, being also witnessed by Livy, and S. Austin having thereupon observed that the Romans counted all stage-players infamous: Gothofredus knowing that the edict of the Praetor did express the judgement and law of the Romans, and marking that the words of the edict were general touching all stage-players, saith in the interpreting thereof that both players for gain sake and without gain were held infamous by it, according to S. Austin and Livy. And this to have been truly said by Gothofredus, I declared agreeably to the grounds of law by testimonies of the Romans; of Cornelius Nepos, Laberius, juvenal, Suetonius, Tacitus, Die, and others. As for that Ulpian (whose words you cited as the Praetors) and Pegasus with Nerva, do say that such as play for gain sake are infamous, I answered that it followeth not that therefore they thought free players not infamous: sith the Scripture likewise counteth a woman infamous who prostituteth her body unto men for money; yet counteth her infamous too who doth it freely. Or if they thought the Praetor's edict to have that meaning, which perhaps they did: then they come too short of his meaning somewhat, and are well corrected therefore by Gothofredus. Now you, to prove the contrary and disproove my proofs, affirm that p D. de his qui notantur infam. l. 2. §. Ait Praetor. Nerva and Pegasus add those words 8 Quaestus causa, & propter praemium. for gain sake to distinguish players for gain from free players, which, you say, is manifest: and again as manifest, you say, that Ulpian doth approve their distinction. But if you thought good to confirm this point, whereof I showed only what cause I had to doubt, I denied it not: you should bring strong arguments to convince they do so, not idle affirmations that it is manifest they do. For what if a wealthy and lascivious courtesan should say that q Deut. 23. 18 Moses mentioneth the hire of the whore, to distinguish mercenary whores from free and frank dames, as it is manifest: and again, as manifest that the r Hos. 9 1. Mic. 1. 7. Prophets do approve his distinction? were there any weight in this to persuade us that Moses and the Prophets mention the whores hire to distinguish hired whores from defilers of themselves without hire; unhonest from honest; infamous from praiseworthy: and not to note rather that such as play the whores do it for hire commonly? You add, that Glossa communis, Baldus, Petrus de Castro (would you not say Paulus? for Petrus I can not hear of) and all whom you have seen upon that text of law do so understand it. This is an argument yet: though not strong enough. For all, whom you have seen, understand it so. It may be. But others, who have seen more law-bookes, perhaps can tell you of many that understand it otherwise. Myself, as few as I have seen, can tell you of two; s Annotat. in 〈◊〉. Budaeus, and an Autour of a Greek abridgement of the Civil law, whom Budaeus citeth. For the Greek author doth expound it thus, That all, who try masteries in solemn games for gain sake, are infamous: 9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. and also they who come upon the stage for praise sake. And Budaeus moving a question and doubt how these words of the text, that all who come upon the stage 1 Propter prae mium. for reward, are infamous; should be understood, whether that they be not also infamous who come upon the stage 2 Ambitiosa ostentatione. for vainglorious ostentation, answereth and resolveth out of St Augustin, and Livy, 3 Attem omnem scenicam probrosam Romae fuisse: atque omnes scenicos censoria nota tribu moveri solitos. that all stageplaying was counted infamous at Rome, and all stage-players were wont to be disfranchised by the Censors. Whose interpretation in a point of this quality deserveth more credit than a hundred such as Paulus de Castro: so meanly seen in the text he treateth of, that he giveth the word, stage, a different meaning from that in the Praetor's edict, which it expoundeth; and saith, it speaketh of other games. An argument much stronger in show, in substance weaker, you fetch out of the text: that in certamen descendere, and in scenam prodire, do (as they say in your law) ambulare aequis passibus, in the same places of the same title, De his qui notantur infamia; but it is most evident, that t D. de postulando. l. 1. §. bestias. & D. de his qui not. infam. l. 4. qui descendit in certamen depugnaturus cum bestijs dentatis, ac feris, virtutis ostendendae non mercedis causa, non est notatus; Ergo qui prodit in scenam pronuntiandi gratia sine praemio & quaestu, non est notatus. Which syllogism of yours if you allow for good: what say you unto this, that (me seems) is like it? In certamen descendere and in scenam prodire do ambulare aequis passibus in the same places of the same title; but it is most evident, that v D. de his qui not. infam. l. 4. C de athletis. l. un. qui descendit in certamen luct a aut cur sum certaturus cum hominibus non facit artem ludicram; Ergo qui prodit in scenan pronuntiandi gratia non facit artem ludicra. The major is your own. The minor as true as yours: Yet the conclusion false; which x L. 1. 2. & 3. D. de his qui not. infam. the same places of the same title show. And seeing by my syllogism you perceive, I trust, that the manly exercises of wrestling and running do far outrun stageplaying, as it is meet they should: you see that the major of your syllogism faileth, and that certamen and scena do not walk with even pass, but are coupled together as a quick greyhound and a lazy cur. Farther is it from reason that you adjoin a reason of the favourable part of the distinction out of the y C. de spectaculis. l. 1. in fine. Code; or rather adjoin it not, but say that you think it may be gathered thence: because the games of wrestling, running, and such like be permitted to them who desire and offer to bear the charge thereof. When neither doth it follow that because these games are allowed by Emperors to willing bearers of the charge, z L. 10. D. ad leg. jul. de vi publica. not imposed on the unwilling, therefore free stage-players are approved by Ulpian: and it is a wandering fancy to imagine why it should be so, when the question is whether it be so or no. The reason of the other side which I set down to show that the distinction can not be enforced out of Ulpians words, because the scripture likewise condemneth them of wickedness who play the hoores for hire, yet acquitteth not free hoores; you confute as sound, as you confirm your own. For you say it is simply evil to play the hoore, either freely or for reward; but not simply evil to come upon the stage, because the law alloweth it if it be done sine quaestu: which is a plain begging of the point in question. And yet having told me that I must evict that it is simply a sin for any prodire in scenam, as it is for a woman to prostitute her body; (I cut off your superfluous words, as namely, vile, in adding which epitheton to sin you double a fault corrected by yourself before when you said, that I assume that the one is as grievous a sin, as the other, or at the least as absolutely a sin:) but having told me this, you plead again the same sophism, avouching that your consequence, Prodire in scenam quaestus causa, infamat; ergo prodire in scenam sine quaestu, non infamat, is a good consequence, because the law so distinguisheth. How much greater reason had you to be persuaded, that sith I had evicted it to be simply evil, because simply infamous by the Praetor's sentence, that is, by the law; Ulpian, with his authors, interpreters thereof, did insert those words not for distinction sake, but to note the common cause why it was practised, the love of reward. Chief seeing otherwise it must needs follow there is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 between the texts of your law, and one of them doth cross an other. Which if the lawyers whom you have seen thereon, had as well observed by S. Austin and Livy, as Budaeus had: perhaps they would have thought that all sorts of stage-players, even such as show themselves for applause to please men, are therein noted also, as Budaeus did. But I, who think there may be repugnancies in your texts, and had an eye to the point in question between us, to weet, whether the Praetor, whose 4 Edictum per petuum. Ascon. Paedian in cic. orat. pro corn D. de orig. jur. l. 2. §. Eodem tempore. C. de vet. jur. enucleand. l. 2. §. Sed quia. edict expressed the ancient Romans law, pronounced all stage-players infamous; not whether Ulpian thought so, who lived in later age after greaterand longer corruption of manners, and consequently of opinions; in so much that he would exempt a 5 Agitatores. D. de his qui notantur infam. l. 4. sort of fruitless game-servers from infamy, whom neither a Tacit. annal. lib. 14. Curriculo quadri garum insistere, foedum studium. Dio, Xiphil. epit. in Net. Es 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. ancient Romans, though Heathens, did before him, nor b C. de spectaculis & scenicis. l. 4. See Cuiacius upon it. Christian Emperors after: I (as you acknowledge) did admit they thought so, but urged that the Praetor affirmed the same that I do, and they mistook his meaning, as Gothofredus proveth in his note thereon. To the which assertion, after a preferring of them before Gothofrede, if not in learning, yet authority, needless to be stood on; (for though he were not better learned than they were, yet might he see by S. Austin and Livy that they saw not; neither is it authority, but learning, that must teach us what the Praetor meant:) you say that in some sense his short, but quick note, Immò & qui sine quaestu, hurteth not you at all. Well. In some sense than it hurteth you, in some it doth not. And doth that sense, wherein he meant it, hurt you or no? If no: why say you afterward, Gothofrede doth gloze against a manifest law without giving any reason of his so doing? If yea: what spirit of wrangling had bewitched you to construe an author's words as not gainsaying you, which in his own meaning you knew made flat against you? For after you had said, If he meaneth thereby to tax Laberius, Lentulus, Nero, and such like, that did exercere histrioniam, though gratuitam, his exception maketh not against your text; and had given a reason thereof, beside the text clean, neither agreeing to Laberius, whom yet by your forenaming him it should have touched: you come in with these words, But Gothofrede in deed foundeth his sharp note upon a saying of S. Austin, Omnes enim scenici probrosi; and of Livy, Et tribu moveri soliti. So you do confess that Gothofrede in deed, although you sensed him as if he taxed only them who played to satisfy their dissolute and lewd humours, that so he might not seem to make against your text, your sense thereof at least; yet in deed he counteth all stage-players infamous, according to the sayings of S. Austin and Livy, whereon he foundeth his note. In deed Master Gager, you are much to blame, who, to show that you can obscure a most clear truth with pretence of law, and a distinction of some sense, do hazard the shipwreck of a good conscience, and wastefully employ your wit and time both, in bolstering out by writing that which yourself see and know to be untrue. I did say before, that I gathered by your dealing that when you resolved to reply against me, you thought with yourself: I know not whether these things be true which he writeth; yet am I disposed to have a crash against them. Now I must inpart correct that my saying. For you show that somewhere in your reply you thought; I know that this thing, which he writeth, is true; 6 Sedtamen libet ire con●…. yet have I a lust to contradict it. True it is therefore that by Gothofredes judgement the Praetor accounted all stage-players infamous; and they, who took the Praetor otherwise, mistook him. Whereof although I did not allege Gothofredus for the chiefest proof, but principally cited him to satisfy you, a lawyer by a lawyer, and proved it by the best interpreter of the law, the practice and consent of the ancient Romans, which he doth ground on also: yet you having answered him (you say) already as it were by the way, do add that by him the rest of my authorities and all mine examples also may receve their true, though short answer. The authorities then of Tully, of Nepos, of Laberius, of Livy, of juvenal, of Suetonius, of Tacitus, of Dio, and of S. Austin; the examples of Nero, Lentulus, and the rest, whom not such authors only but the people of Rome too did esteem infamous for their stageplaying, were it freely, or for gain; may be answered by your answer to Gothofredus. And how? For he (you say) glozeth against a manifest law without giving any reason of his so doing. Why? Doth not he give a reason in these words, Omnes enim scenici probrosi, & tribu moveri soliti, proved by S. c De civit. Dei lib. 2. cap. 11 Austin and d Lib. 7. Livy? But S. Austin and Livy could never dream of your text, you say; and so their authorities serve not to interpret it. As who say Gothofredus brought them to interpret your text, that is, Ulpian: not rather to interpret the Praetor's edict, & to correct your text thereby. For thus doth he reason in effect: Ulpian expounding the Praetor's edict, saith that, they only, who play upon the stage for gain sake, are infamous: but the Praetor meant that they, who play without gain, are infamous also, even generally all stage-players; as it is apparent by S. Austin and Livy: therefore Ulpian misseth in expounding the Praetor's edict. And, I trust, an older writer may be cited to correct a younger, of whom he could not dream: or else yourself do evil to cite Ulpian against me, of whom he could not dream you wot well. Though S. Austin also might have dreamt of Ulpian, 7 Ulpian lived about two hundred years before S. Aust. Lamprid. Alexandro Sever. Euseb. Chro. for aught that I know. But you say farther that S. Austin and Livy are to be understood against Histriones: and so their authorities serve not to this of your text. Wherein I must confess I understand not what you mean. For I can not imagine you should be so absurd as to say that they speak not against players on stage, because they speak against Histriones. Only as e Diog. La●…. in Socr. Socrates; being asked what he thought of a certain book of Heraclitus, answered, Those things which I understood in it are excellent, and so, I think, are those to which I understood not: semblably may I say touching these branches and parts of your reply, that what I understand therein maketh nothing against the point that I did conclude by Gothofredus; no more, I think, doth that which I understand not. Nay, I say too little when I say I think. For seeing histriones signifieth stage-players; & stage-players are such as come 8 Qui artis ludicrae pronuntiandive causa in scenam prodierit. upon the stage to play or pronounce, whom the 9 Praetoris verba dicunt. l. 1. Ait Praetor. l. 2 D. de his qui not. infam. Praetor speaketh of: I know, that what soever your meaning be therein, it can have no force to overthrow that which I concluded by Gothofredus. So this with the former distinctionlesse distinction of a sense he meant not, being all the answer that you make to him: the rest of my authorities and examples all are so far from being answered by him, that your answerless answer doth rather leave both him and them as unanswerable. But you go forward, and, to overthrow them both an other way, you deny that the Romans ever judged Omnes scenicos infames. And why? Because plays (say you) were sometime instituted, as in a common plague, ad placandos Deos, and were provided by great officers of the common treasure: and so they are referred ad religionem & devotionem. Sometime they were set out at the private cost of them that sued to the people for great offices, or generally for the honour and solace of the city: and so they are referred to magnificence. For magnificentia is a goodly virtue, & versatur circa sumptus amplos, non turpes aut infames, because it is a virtue, but circa quaecunque in Rempublicam honestae laudis studio conferuntur: among the which f Ethicor. lib. 4. cap. 5. Aristotle reckoneth Ludos splendidè facere. Neither is it to be thought that Aesopus & Roscius, being both men of that fame, favour, wealth, and entire familiarity with the best and wisest in their times, were reputed as infamous persons. What should I speak of so many Circi, Theatra, Amphitheatra, builded by the greatest and bravest Romans with so huge charge & sumptuousness? Which though they were once upon fowl abuses, or some other occasion, as you writ, overthrown by the Romans themselves: yet even those plays for which they were abolished were ex eo genere of whom they might have said (as g Histor. lib. 1 Tacitus doth of Astrologers) quoth in civitate nostra, & vetabitur semper, & retinebitur. Howsoever; I can not think that either they would have suffered such things to be done at all, if they had judged them evil: or to be performed by infamous persons, being matters of that state and magnificence, and, as they thought, of that devotion and necessity. Thus far your own words. In which, to show that you do not deny without cause that the Romans ever judged all stage-players to be infamous, you make two proofs thereof: one, that Aesopus & Roscius were not reputed as infamous persons; an other, that the Romans would not have suffered such things to be performed by infamous persons, being matters of great state & magnificence, and; as they thought, of great devotion and necessity. Such proposition, such proofs. The proposition savouring of a strange boldness (to use no harder term) that you, who scarce are forty years old, if yet forty, in a question of fact, of a thing done fifteen, sixteen, or seventeen hundred years ago, which a number of witnesses, that lived the same time, men of good credit, affirm to have been done, should presume to say, I deny that it was done. For Tully reporteth that the Romans counting all kinds of stage-plays shameful and dishonest, did judge accordingly of the players. Nepos, Laberius, Livy, juvenal, Tacitus, the rest, whom I cited, both of the learned sort, and of the common people, do testify the same. Neither can you deny but their words alleged by me, do clearly argue that they judged thus of free players also, not only of players for gain. Yet you harden your face to say against them all: I deny that the Romans ever judged all stage-players to be infamous. Yea, for proof hereof you produce two reasons, which imply that they thought no stage-players infamous, no not players for gain: and so you avouch an evident untruth against your own confession, your own conscience. For Roscius and Aesopus played for gain: as h Natur. hist. lib. 7. cap. 39 & lib. 10. cap. 51. Pliny and i Saturn. lib. 3. cap. 14. Macrobius show. Their wealth, which you mention, was gotten by that trade. Now your text of k D. de his qui not infam. l. 2. §. ait Praetor. Ulpian with Pegasus and Nerva, sayeth that all who play for gain, are infamous; as you confessed before; adding that you saw no cause to mislike it, less durst dispute against it. Wherefore in saying that Aesopus and Roscius were not reputed as infamous persons, your own mouth and heart condemn you of gain saying an undoubted truth. Much more when you infer the same of other stage-players, even of the rascals, the most vile among them, in the reason following. For although the fame, the favour, the wealth of Roscius and Aesopus, should no more have moved you to wash away all stain from their credit, then from l Lactant. divin. instit lib. 1. cap. 20. Flora and m Athenaeus dignolophist. lib. 13. Phryne, who were whores of great fame, favour, wealth: yet their familiarity with the best and wisest might probably persuade you, that they were not reputed as infamous persons. Howbeit, had you weighed, how 1 Tully. the best and wisest so well acquainted with them, had showed in 2 Roscius. one of them, that n Orat. pro Q. Roscio comaed. other things brought him to such estimation, his o Orat. pro P. Quintio. stageplaying was some stain unto him: you should have perceived that in this respect their credit might be tainted, notwithstanding the acquaintance, whereto, by means of other parts approved in them, they grew in process of time with the best and wisest. But your next reason saith as much for the vilest and most beastly stage-players, as for Aesopus and Roscius. For in certain plays, called 3 Ludi Florals Ovid. Faster. libro 5. Valer. Max. lib 2 cap. 10 the plays of Flora, the 4 Mimae, as they are termed by Vale rius Maxim.; turba meretricia, by Oui. meretrices, quae mimor●…m funguntur officio, by Lactantius. lib. 1 cap. 20 players were not men, but women, and those lewd ones, professed whores and strumpers: which, besides all wanton filthiness of words, did show themselves naked also to the people, and used most shameful motions and gestures. These plays were instituted (to use your own words) ad placandos Deos, 5 Cic in ver. li. 5. Plin. nat. hist. lib. 18. cap. 29. that Flora, as the Goddess of flowers, might be entreated not to hurt the corn, nor any thing that bloweth and blossemeth: and so they are referred ad religionem & devotionem. The 6 Aediles. Cic. de office lib. 2 Mamerco, ho mini ditissimo, praetermissio aedilitatis consulatus repulsam attulit. officers that had the charge to set them out, did set them out at their private cost, to get the people's favour for the obtaining of greater offices: and so they are referred to magnificence. The 7 Theatra Scauri, Curionis, Pompeii. Pli. nat. hist. lib. 36. cap. 15. Plutareh. vit. Pomp. tertullian. de spect. cap. 10. stages and theatres, wherein men behold them, were builded by the greatest and bravest Romans with huge charge and sumptuousness: Wherefore sith the Romans would not have suffered such things to be performed by infamous persons, being matters of great state and magnificence, and, as they thought, of great devotion and necessity: it followeth, by your reason, that they did not judge professed whores and strumpets to be infamous persons. Now, if this consequent touching whores be false, as your p D. de condict. ob turp. vel injust. cause. l. 4. §. Sed quid D. de ritu▪ nupt. l. 41. law showeth it is: then is the consecution of your reason faulty. Which yourself may see by the other branch thereof, avouched jointly, to weet, that the Romans would not have suffered such things to be done at all, if they had judged them evil: and by him, whose sentence, that it is a virtue 8 Ludos splendidè facere. to set out plays bravely, you add for the gracing and countenancing of your reason, I mean, even by Aristotle. For he, in reckoning it among magnificent actions 9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if any where men think they ought to set out plays bravely (so he qualifieth his sentence with a circumstance of moment omitted by you in alleging it,) respecteth the opinions and customs of the Grecians: who thought it an honourable thing to be at charges with furnishing and decking companies of Musicians, of Dansers, of Players, in their solemn feasts, & usual processions celebrated to their Gods. As among the Athenians, for example sake, q Orat. in Midiam. Demosthenes, when no man of his tribe was willing to bear the charge thereof, did promise of his own accord that he 1 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 would bear it, and thereupon provided golden crowns and costly garments for a company 2 Ev 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the feast of Bacchus. This feast r Herodot. Euterpe. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Athenaeus dipnos. lib. 14 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Cle▪ Alexander. ad hort. ad gent. Arnob. advers. gent. lib. 5. had as filthy matters represented, though by an other sex, in the shows & plays belonging thereunto, as that of Flora had. Yet, such was the brutish superstition of Heathens, that s Politicor. lib. 7. cap. ult. Aristotle himself, one of the best among them, banishing all unseemly speeches and spectacles out of his common wealth, 3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. excepteth such as these, done in the honour of their Gods, according to their law, t Aristot. de poëtica. which 4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. allowed that beastliness in many cities then. In like sort the Romans, albeit they judged the things to be evil which the players did in the feast of Flora, so evil that v Valer. Max. lib. 2. cap 10 Seneca epist. 98. the refuse & dregs of the people durst not for shame desire to have the fight there of while Cato was present: yet did they allow; and by public order provide for the doing of them, 5 Quo ve malo mentem concussa? timore Deorum. Horat. satire. lib. 2. sat 3. because they thought them pleasant to their devilish Goddess, whose wrathful plagues they feared, if they should omit them. And thus, for the rest of their plays also, whether made to pacify 6 Ludi Megalenses. Livi. lib. 29. & 34. Aug de ciu. Dei lib. 2. cap. 4. the mother of their Gods, or 7 Ludi Romani, in honorem jovis, junonis, & Minervae: ludi Apollinares, etc. Cic. in Verr. li. 5. Livi. li. 27. ●…1. etc. any of her children, they thought it a necessary devotion to set them out, a stately magnificence to set them out bravely; yet did they repute the players thereof infamous, as Tully, Livy, the Praetor, Ulpian, all consent; though withal discrediting thereby both Gods and plays, as x De civ. Dei. lib. 2. cap. 13. Austin and y De spectaculis, cap. 22. Tertullian note. How much the more strange doth your boldness seem, not only to pronounce that the Romans would not have suffered such things to be performed by infamous persons; but to say, as bringing a proof thereof too, that you can not think it, I can not think that they would have suffered it. And can you think that this is a seemly thing, or tolerable, in a matter of fact, proved by the uniform consent of so many and so worthy witnesses, for you to contradict it with these kinds of speeches: I deny that the Romans ever judged all stage players to be infamous; It is not to be thought that they deemed Aesopus and Roscius infamous; I can not think that they would have suffered their plays to be performed by men infamous? Can you think without blushing, how the ancient Fathers conclude by the confession of the Romans themselves, 8 Tertullian Quanta confessio est malae rei, quarum actores cùm acceptissimi sint, sine nota non sunt. one, that plays are evil, because the Praetor noted the players with infamy; an 9 S. Augustin. Theatricae illius turpitudinis qua fronte notatur actor, si adoratur exactor? Proponunt Grae ci; Si D●… tales colendi sunt, profectò etiam tales homines honorandi sunt. Assumunt Ro many: Sed nullo modo tales homines honorandi sunt. Concludunt Christiani; Nullo igitur modo Dii tales colendi sunt. other, that such Gods should not be worshipped, because such men were counted infamous who performed the plays that they required: and you, of the contrary, deny that such men were counted infamous by the Romans, or noted by the Praetor; a thing, that no Heathen, amongst all their adversaries (whom I have ever read of) durst? Can you think your students of Christ-church, and others, with whom you have communicated this reply of yours, to be so weak eye-sighted, that they perceive not, that yourself, in citing & applying Tacitus his words touching Astrologers to the point in question, do confute yourself, as if God had bereft you almost of common sense, when you went about it? For if you think that the Romans would retain Astrologers always in their city, yet forbidden them always: can you not think that they would have suffered such things to be done at all, if they had judged them evil? And if you think plays to be of that kind, of which they might have said as Tacitus doth of Astrologers: can you think that they who z Tacit. annal. li. 2 Ulpian. li. 7. de office Procon. coll. leg. Mos. & Roman. C de malef. & mathem. li. 5. judged Astrologers worthy of greater punishment, would have judged players worthy a note of infamy? I would to God you could think, & think upon your bed (as the a Psal. 4. ver. 4 Prophet exhorteth) of your offence herein, your b ver. 2. loving of vanity, your seeking of lies. Then would you be still, and quietly acknowledge that by Tully, Nepos, Laberius, Livy, juvenal, and other ancient Romans, stage-players were taken to be infamous persons, even all, whether they played freely, or for gain: and therefore not only the hirelings, but the free too, are comprised and noted in the Praetor's words. Then would you rather observe in the reading of your c Ad paragr. Ait Praetor. lib 2. D. de his qui not. infam. Glossa communis, that though certain lawyers took the Praetor otherwise, yet certain took him so as well as Gothofredus. Then would you devise more and better reasons for the general doctrine out of d C. de spect. & scenicis. justinian's Code, and e Lib 15. cod. Theod. tit. 7. Theodosius both, then now for the favourable part of your distincton you did out of justinianus; omitting and neglecting that, in f De spectac. & sceni. li. 4. the same title, whence that seely single reason was enforced, stage-players are termed 1 Vilem histrionem. vile, 2 Inhonestas personas. unhonest persons, without all distinction. It may be that your conscience felt some prick hereof; or at least your knowledge informed you that this would not hold water. Else, why adjoin you a new point of defence, that the actors of your plays are no stage-players? Whereas g Epilo. Vlys. red respon. ad Mom. before your only answer to this point was, that you played freely: nor needed there more in your desire to be short (which you pretend often) if you thought it certain the law comprised not free players. But what soever you thought, when you resolved of having two strings unto your bow: this new string is worse a great deal then the old was; the hemp is nought whereof you made it. For whereas you deny; that you, who come on the stage once in a year, or two, in seven, or in ten, or sometime twenty years, are to be termed 3 Scenici, o●… histriones. stage-players; as he is not a wrestler that sometime to prove his strength, trieth for a fall or two; nor he a fenser, that sometime taketh up the cudgels to play a veny: First make these similitudes perfitt with adding 4 In arenam. D. de postulando li. 1. §. removet. D. de accusationib. li. 4. that which answereth to 5 In scenam. the stage, that they be not similia dissimilia, (as h De finib. l. 4 Tully calleth them,) and then he is a 6 Athleta C. deathle. l. 〈◊〉. wrestler who to prove his strength on that stage, as it were, doth try for a fall or two; and a 7 Gladiator. Cic. Philipp. 7. Ovid. Trist li. 2. Quintil. declamat. 9 Fenser likewise, who cometh once thither, though he never come again; and so are they stage-players, who play upon the stage once in a year or two. Next, the law doth cut off all strife about the name, by noting him with infamy, 8 Qui in scenam prodierit. who cometh on the stage to play, or pronounce. So that when you acknowledge that yours come on the stage to this intent and end, you show that both you wrangle and trifle in denying they are to be termed stage-players. As for that you add, that you do differ from them, whom I mentioned, in the manner of your playing, in the end, effects, & other circumstances, as in the examination of mine exaples shall appear; the which as I have alleged to illustrate mine authorities, as being the men whom they properly speak against; so if you show that you are not to be likened to them, neither mine authorities, nor mine examples shall touch you: the drift of your speech is to prove, even for the thing too, that you are clear from that which the law disgraceth; but with what sinews of arguments you do it, I will (by a more perfitt similitude than yours were) endeavour to make plain unto you: i jul. Capitoli. 〈◊〉 Maximi●…s duobus. Maximinus, a savage Emperor, a man of a huge, tall, and strong body, took a most sottish and proud conceit thereof that he could not be killed. Whereupon a certain man said in his presence; He that can not be killed by one, is killed by many: The Elephant is great; yet is he killed: The Lion is strong; yet is he killed: The Tiger is swift; yet is he killed: Beware of many joined, if single ones you fear not. The autour of this speech meant to reason thus, by way of a syllogism: Every living creature may be killed: Maximinus the Emperor is a living creature: Therefore he may be killed. And lest Maximinus through his proud conceit should object against it, that every living creature, who could be overmatched by one, might be killed; but it was impossible for any one to match him: the autour said, that such as could not be killed by one, might by many; adding for proof thereof that Elephants, Lions, Tigers, be they never so great, strong, and swift, are killed. Here suppose that he had withal, in hope of better persuading Maximinus, told him that k De nat. Deor. lib. 3. Tully saith all living creatures may be killed: which to be true in all absolutely and simply, yea even such as no one can lightly overmatch, l De office li. 2 Tully showeth farther; and m De Venat. Xenophon, n Lib. 5. Polybius, o Lib. 21. & 24 Livy, p Nat. hist. lib. 8. cap. 6. 7. 16. & 17. Pliny, q Conjugalib. praecep. & vita Pompeii. Plutarch, do witness by sundry stories of those beasts. Now, if Maximinus had given ea●…e thereto, and answered that himself did differ from those beasts in the manner of his strength, in the end, effects, and other circumstances, as it should appear in examination of the examples; which as the man had cited to illustrate his authorities, as being the creatures whom they properly speak of, so if Maximinus had showed that he was not to be likened to them neither the authorities, nor the examples should touch him; what should the fellow have done, who did make that argument? Should he have denied that Maximinus differed from Elephants, Lions, Tigers, in the manner of his strength, and the rest of your circumstances? How could he? when he might have been controlled strait by Maximinus saying: They have no man to their subjects: I rule the whole world; they want helps to shield them from wounds; I wear armour: they can hold no sword, or other weapons; I can: they are of low stature; I am eleven foot high. Should he have granted that because it appeareth by those and the like differences, that Maximinus was not such a living creature as those beasts were, therefore he was no living creature: neither could he be touched either by the examples or by the authorities? That had been to bewray either fear, or ignorance, and to betray the truth: sith the authorities reached to the thing in general; and so the examples brought to illustrate them did touch Maximinus also by consequent. Then belike, albeit the differences, that he might allege against the author's reason had been true all, yet had they all been idle; as neither disprooving the major, nor the minor, whereof the conclusion doth necessarily follow. This is the condition and state of your differences, Mr. D. Gager; they are not all true, and they are all idle. They are not all true. Nay, is there any of them not untrue in part? Doubtless not the first: wherein you affirm that you differ from them altogether in furniture, & manner of setting out plays: they did it with excessive charge: you thriftily, warily, and almost beggarly. For, I hope, as Irus came beggarly in with you; so 9 Horace showeth that they ought; de are▪ te poetica: & that they had wherewith to do it; Epist. 7. lib. 1 Vilia vendentem tunicato scruta popello. they would have clothed him in rags too, and could: and such cloaks as they used to borrow for brave wooers, cost 1 Chlamydes Lucullus, ut aiunt, Si posset centum scenae praebere rogatus, Qui possum tot? ait; tamen & quaeram, & quot habebo Mittam. post paulo scribit scribit sibi millia quinque esse domi chlamydum: partem, vel tolleret omnes. Horat. epistolar. li. 1 ep. 6. them no more the fetching, then yours out of the revils: and excess in charges is measured by ability, as r Ethicor. lib. 4. ca 1. aut 2. Aristotle showeth; the s Mark 12. 4●…. widow giving two mites, gave more than all the rest: and you in spending pence might be more excessive than they in spending pounds. Not the second difference, touching the manner of action; whereof you say that they acted their plays in an other sort than you do, or can or well know how: but so exquisitely and carefully, that you may seem compared with them either for skill, or diligence, rather Recitare, which I do not dislike, then Agere. For other sort of playing you fancy without ground, saying you know not what of things performed you know not how: I ween you know not, neither why they who played unwilling and had small list to learn it; should be more skilful and diligent than yours: sure if yours should seem rather recitare, which I mislike not, then agere; none of yours played t in Rivalib. drunken, nor v Vlyss red. danced, nor 2 Scabellun jacit Antinous Act 2. hurled footestooles, nor x Riu. Vlyss. red. & Hippolyt. put on women's raiment. Not the third difference, which you set in this, that they came on the stage of a lewd, vast, dssolute, wicked, impudent, prodigal, monstrous humour; you contrariwise do it to sundry good intents, as namely (for example) to conform your youth to convenient action. For neither came they all with such a disposition; witness is Laberius, witnesses are others alleged out of Dio; so that you speak herein as if Maximinus had said that those beasts, which the fellow mentioned, are of low stature, a thing untrue in y Oppian. de venat. lib 2 Aelian. de hist. anim. l. 12. c. 8 Lud. Verto man navigat lib. 4 cap. 10. Petr. Gillius elephanti descript cap 6. Eel phants: noris it more true that you frame your youth to convenient action, framing some of them to the action of wooers, some of knaves, some of parasites, some of clowns, some of drunkards, some of bragging soldiers, or of the like to these, then that z jul. Capitol. in Maximin. duob. Erat magnitudine tanta, ut octo pedes digito videretur egressus. Maximinus was eleven foot high. Not the fourth difference, wherein (to make a farther profit of the circumstance that before you urged against the name of stage-players) you say that they frequented the stage; you do it seldom, sometime not in seven, ten or twenty years. For how do you prove that they whom juvenal, Tacitus, Dio note, frequented it more than some of yours have? and Laberius did it but once in 3 Ego bis tricenis annis actis sine nota, Eques Ro manus è lare e gressus meo Domum revertar mimus. Macro. Saturn. lib. 2 cap. 7. three score years, who yet both called himself a stage-player for that doing, and counted it a stain unto him. The fifth offendeth less, affirming that they did it on the public theatre not of the city only, but of the whole world: you in a private house, and to a few, men of understanding. Yet look by what reason you name the Roman theatre, the theatre of the whole world, your should be the theatre of England, France, and Ireland, if not of whole Europe: and why say you that you did it to men of understanding? as if in Rome women also had been present who might behold the lusty motions of the players, and understand not what they spoke; 4 At siqua forsan iweni vellicet togan, Quidque hic agatur scire discupiat nimis, etc. And Rogare veniam à foemi nis non est opus. Prologue. & epilog. in Hippolytum none such on your stage. In the sixth you lavish more than in the fourth, saying that they were men grown, one of them three score years old, Knights, of noble houses, Patricii, & one of them Emperor of the world: in you being young men, boys, poor Scholars, all these things are quite contrary. For, touching age, among 5 Non nobilitas cuiquam, non aetas, aut acti honores impedimento, quo minus Graeci Latiniue histrionis artem exercerent. Tacit. annal. lib. 14. them who were compelled by Nero to become stage-players, the stories, which I cited, do record (quite contrary to your quite contrary) that there were not only 6 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. men grown, and 7 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 old, but young too; and some of your players came on the stage as old as a Sueton. Neron. cap. 8. & 11. Tacit. annal. lib. 13 & 14. Nero, your great Emperor: touching wealth, the beggary of those needy squires, whom out of juvenal and Tacitus I specified, hath small contrariety unto poor scholars state: touching birth, and gentry, you forgot yourself, when, in saying elsewhere, The gentleman that played Ulysses, and setting 8 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Dio Neron▪ in Xiphilin. epit. b F. S. Actor. Vlyssis ego. his verses before your book, you showed that your players are not quite contrary to Patricii; unless you think so meanly of his name, and stock, that a 9 Fumosos equitum cum dictatore magistros-Iuvenal. satyr. 8. smoky Lentulus, or Fabius, or Mamercus, doth pass it in nobility; yea, though it have learning and Scholership joined with it; neither only pass it, but pass it so far, that not content to make it differ in degree, you make it quite contrary, as if it were of the basest of the rascality. And seeing these things, specially this last point, wherein you must bear with me, if furthermore being taught by c Epistolar. ad familiar. lib. 3. epi. 7. Tully, that Lentulitas, what shall I term it? the Lentulusnes of noble parentage is 1 Etiam ne tu has in eptias, ullam App●…etatem, aut Lentulitatem valere apud me plus, quam ornamenta virtutis existimas? nothing in comparison of virtue; nay, being taught by him, whom Tully's d Prou. 20. 27. joh. 1. 9 light came from, even by the e jam. 1. 17. Father of lights, that f Act. 17. 11. they are most noble who most excel in godliness and graces of the spirit, I account all Christian Scholars and Students, as good and noble gentlemen, as the Heathen Lentuli; but seeing these differences do square so from the truth: the rest, which are the same, enlarged and applied to particular comparisons of certain of your players with certain of theirs, must needs be enrolled in the same predicament. Howbeit you do utter them in such a g Quintilian. lib. 9 cap. 2. Interrogamus, quod negari non possit. sort, as if you did not only mean to have it though, that there is less resemblance, and therefore greater difference between their players & yours, whom I notwithstanding had compared as like: but also that I should be forced to acknowledge it by mine own confession, and grant that I was wonderfully overseen therein. For you ask of me (to set down your own words:) Who ever would resemble our Melantho with your Laureolus? the one represented by an ingenuous boy, and for her lewdness imagined to be hanged within: the other acted by Lentulus, a man nobly descended, expressing perhaps openly on the stage the same punishment. What likeness is there between our young men, putting on the persons of Antinous, and the rest of Penelope's wooers: and between gentlemen of the noble race of Fabius, in their own persons, not so much counterfeiting others, as expressing their own scurrilities? Such as our Antinous and the rest of the wooers can not be justly charged with: no not our Irus, or Ulysses. Again, what resemblance is there between our Hippodamia only singing, Eurimachus only saying, Phemius both singing and saying, all three represented by such as they were: and between Nero, playing men's, wemens, and minstrels parts upon the stage in Rome? Behold A marvelous case, that I should compare and resemble players together so absurdly, as no man would ever have done besides me: and that I should affirm them to be like one an other, between whom there is no likeness, no resemblance, as your sharp urging doth imply. But perhaps your stomach is the more eager against my comparisons, because of our dissension about the stage and plays. The party, that spoke in the presence of Maximinus, spoke 2 In theatro. upon the stage, and was a 3 Scurra mimus. jul. Capitolin. In whom it is printed, minus: by error, for mimus, as I take it. player himself: it may be you would have used him more gently. For else, had you been there, and loved Maximinus you might (which I marvel if you think not absurd) have answered thus in his behalf. Who ever would resemble Maximinus to an Elephant? the one, a man well featured, and feeding very daintily within doors in his palace: the other a beast, a h Plin. nat. hist. lib. 8. cap. 10. & li. 11. cap. 39 thick skin, having a 4 So is his proboscis termed by Aristotle. de hist. ani lib. 2. cap. 1. and by Oppian, de venat. lib. 2. nose an 5 Or two yards, some of them, with the advantage. Petr. Gillius eleph. descript. cap. 5. & 6. ell long, and i job. 40. 15. eating grass perhaps without doors on the mountains. What likeness is there between him, our Emperor, a most gracious parsonage, and of sweet conditions: and between a Tiger, a k Virg. Geor lib. 2. ovid. epist. 10. cruel savage beast, wearing l Plini. nature. hist. lib. 8. cap. 17. Oppian. de venat. li. 1. & 3. hear of sundry coolours, speckled, spotty? Such as our Emperor hath none upon his body: no, nor the like paws, or 6 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Oppian. lib. 3. de venat. tail. Again what resemblance is there between him, excelling in all three things, greatness, strength, and swiftness: & between an Elephant, great and strong only; a Tiger, strong and swift; a Lion having little to trust to, beside strength? Think you that you had spoken with any grain of salt, Mr. D. Gager, if you had spoken thus? Though I have disadvantaged myself in this similitude: because both your Melantho was a great deal liker to juvenal's Laureolus, your wooers and the rest to those degenerate gentlemen, than Maximinus was to beasts: and I have scarce put one false difference in mine, of Maximinus' sweet conditions; you have put many in yours. For, to pass over the ingenuousnes of the boy that represented Melantho, opposed to the nobleness of Lentulus who did act Laureolus, the unlikeness whereof in nobleness, and acting, is disproved already; chief sith 7 Nullum simi le est idem, you know. things that are not the same, may be like: first, what proof have you, that 8 The gentlemen of noble houses which Dio specifieth: and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 among them namely. they, whom juvenal noted under the name of Fabii, did not so much counterfeit others, which your wooers did, as express their own scurrilities? When contrariwise some of them would have hid their faces with 9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Dio Neron. visors, for shame, that they might not be known, as counting the infamy thereof worse than death: a very great presumption, that they did abhor from expressing their own scurrilities on the stage, whom it grieved so much to come on the stage at all. Next, what wrong is it to charge your Antinous, and other of the whores, with such scurrilities, as theirs? were not the m juvenal. sat. 8. Sueton Ne'er cap. 2●…. Dio Ner. plays that they played made of like arguments, in like sort, to yours? Is not Antinous set forth by n Odyss. li. 17. 18. 20. 21. & 22. Homer, as a malapert l Sponsi Penelopae nebulones. knave? to speak in o Epist. lib. 1. ep. 3. Horace's phrase, of him and his complices. Do p Epist. ad Criticum. you not follow Homer, and express Antinous with the rest accordingly, both in their misbehaviour of words & of deeds? thirdly, do you know what is meant in juvenal by planipedes Fabios, when I having said that the race of Fabius resembled & counterfeited such base ridiculous things as are expressed in Irus, you deny that he may be justly charged with such? And if you know that they, who were termed q Diomedes gramma jul. Scalig poeti. lib. 1. cap. 10 planipedes, counterfeited such things as r Macr. Satur. lib 2. cap. 7. Laberius did when he put on the person of a bondslave whipped: are you not ashamed to deny that such are expressed in Irus, a beggar buffeted, thrown down, and 2 Pedibus Irum extrahit, ridentibus procis Vlyss. red. act. 2. haled out by the feet, the wooers laughing thereat? Finally, why are not the blows, in your tragedy, given to Ulysses, like the 3 Mamercorun alapas. Mamercians whirrets that juvenal speaketh of? you think them not so bad. I think them worse rather. For whirrets, that he speaketh of, were given with the hand. Your Ulysses is 4 Vylssem calce ferit. strooken with Melanthius heel, and 5 Scabellum jacit. with Antinous footstool: unless Antinous hurling it did miss the mark, and played not his part as you appointed him out of 6 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dies. li. 17. Homer. Thus are your differences all untrue, in part: in whole, a number of them. But suppose they were true. Yet are they all idle: because, as in the fellows speech to Maximinus, the mayor being proved that all living creatures may be killed, whether one or many be able to surprise them; the minor apparent, that he was a living creature; the conclusion followed, notwithstanding whatsoever differences between him, and them, whose examples were brought to prove the mayor: likewise in my reason, the mayor being proved, that all stage-players are infamous by the civil law, whether they play for gain, or freely; the minor apparent, that they who play your plays on the stage, are stage-players; the conclusion followeth, notwithstanding whatsoever differences between yours, and them whose examples for proof of the mayor I produced. Nay, I say farther, that as some true differences between Maximinus, and the beasts, do sharpen the edge of the conclusion against him; for if s Pli. nat. hist. lib. 8. cap. 4. Viribus, magnitudine, velocitate praestantiores. greater, stronger, and swifter creatures are killed, how much more might he be? so for you to be stage-players it is more shameful then for the old Romans, sith they were t Eph. 4. 18. ignorant, v 2. Cor. 4. 4. infidels, x Ephe. 2. 12. without God in the world; you are Scholars, Christians, chosen to be trained up unto the ministery; and y Luk. 12. 48. unto whom much is committed, the more shall be required of him; z Luk 7. 47. they who have many sins forgiven them, should love much; it is a great offence a Amos. 2. 1●…. to give the Nazarites wine to drink, though to b 1. Tim. 5. 23 drink wine be not unlawful. Wherefore that of Terence wherewith you conclude, saying that you think it was a fowl shame for noble men and Nero to play, but to play noble men or Nero it is no shame for you; as c Ter. Adelph. act. 5. scen. 3. he saith in the Comedy, Duo quum idem faciunt, saepe, ut possis dicere, Hoc liceti mpunè facere huic, illi non licet; Non quòd dissimilis res sit, sed quòd is qui facit: although you straighten the point (whether for shame, or for the figure?) when you speak of playing noble men and Nero, your purpose being to justify the playing of the d Rivalib. basest, drunkards, & e Vlyss red. whooers too; but if Terence's saying would fit the point in question, the use thereof must be to prove that they might lawfully come on the stage, you may not. The truth is that it cannot be applied hereto, because f L. 1. D. de his qui not. infa. the law speaketh generally of stage-players, as it doth of bawds, of thieves, with the like; and common sense doth teach us, that 7 Vbi lex non distinguit, nec nos distinguere debemus. Gloss ad li. 〈◊〉. D de Public. in rem act. li. 1. §. quod autem. D. de aleatoribus. we may not distinguish where the law distinguisheth not. Else, if I should say that by the same law our English thieves, who rob on Gaddes hill, are infamous; one of their abetters might answer, No not so: for the Law speaketh of such as g Asc. Paedia. in Cic. orat. pro Aem. Scaur. Lucius Tubulus, men of wealth and state, who rob the whole world repairing unto Rome; not of poor good fellows that rob a few Kentish men travailing to Gravesend: and I think it was a fowl shame for rich men and Tubulus to rob; but to rob rich men and Tubulus, it is no shame for us: as he saith in the Comedy, that oftentimes, you may say, when two men do the same thing, the one is not blameworthy for it, the other is, not as if there were difference in the thing itself, but in the man that doth it. Which Comical sentence, though it might be as well applied by justice Graybeard to the excuse of theft in poor men, as by Terence's 8 Non est flagitium (mihi crede) adolescentulum scortari. Act. 1. scen. 2. Mitio it is to the excuse of whoredom in a young man; yet were it unjustly applied thereunto: because the law condemning theft in whomsoever without respect of persons, be they rich or poor, doth count it none of those things which fall within the compass of Terence's 9 Saepe. Duo quum idem faciunt, saepe ctc. oftentimes. So considering, stage-players are spoken of in like sort, as thieves, by the law: you see how Terence's saying may be applied unto them. But if we might apply it unto them justly, we must infer thereof that it was no shame for Nero & his mates to come on the stage, for you it is: as S. Paul commandeth us h 1. Cor. 5. 〈◊〉 not to eat with any that is called a brother, if he be a fornicator; which, i ver. 10 with an infidel committing the same filthiness, he doth not forbid. And thus while you endeavour to unwind yourself out of the net of ignominy and infamy cast upon you by the civil law, you are bound faster in it: to the fulfilling of that proverb, which I wish you had marked in the k Ter. Phorm. act. 1. scen. 2. Comedy rather, if not in the l Act. 9 5. Scripture, It is hard to kick against pricks. In the second head, to a reason drawn out of the law of God for the reproof of stage-plays as now you handle it, denying that you made it to prove that men may lawfully put on women's raiment therein, as I took it; though how just cause I had to take it so, I have declared; but unto this reason grounded on the m Deut. 22. 5. law of God in Deuteronomie, Whatsoever man doth put on woman's raiment, he is abominable to the Lord; But men did put on women's raiment in your plays; you must acknowledge therefore that you were justly blamed: you reply in like sort as unto the former of the civil law; first, that the prohibition of men to wear women's raiment is not general, but toucheth certain cases only; next, that your players did not wear women's raiment. And because in treating of the prohibition I showed out of the Scriptures, that it doth belong not to the ceremonial law, but to the moral; and no part of the moral law may be transgressed, no, not for the saving of honour, wealth, or life: my proofs hereof being so clear, strong, and pregnant, that you durst not deny the thing to be proved, you move a doubt, as your term is, out of words of mine; in deed you reason thus against it. I pray you give me leave to propose my contrary doubt. The moral law, as you truly say, is the law of love and charity; to the which wheresoever the ceremonial law is repugnant, there it giveth place to the moral. The moral law therefore is never contrary to love and charity, in commanding or forbidding any thing. But the place of Deutero nomie, being taken strictly, absolutely, and in the rigour of the letter, may sometimes hinder the actions of love and charity, both towards ourselves and others; as in those cases, which both you and I propose. Ergo in that strictness it belongeth rather to the law ceremonial, though the equity thereof pertaineth to the law moral, and so it is perpetually and simply to be observed. Now, I have given you leave to propose your contrary doubt. I pray you give me leave to propose my contrary question. In the same book of Deuteronomie it is written, n Deut. 5. 17. Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery. These precepts being taken strictly, absolutely, and in the rigour of the letter, may sometimes hinder the actions of love and charity, both towards ourselves and others; as appeareth by the example of joseph, and of David: joseph, who o Gen. 39 20. lost his liberty and put his life in hazard, because p verse. 12. he refused to commit adultery with his masters wife; David, who q 1. Sam. 26. 〈◊〉 & 27. 2. cast his followers and himself into sundry dangers and distresses, because r 1. Sam. 24. 7 and 26. 9 he would not kill Saul. Hereupon I ask you, whether you think, that seeing the moral law bound joseph & David to s Lev. 19 18. Matt. 19 19 Ephe. 5. 28. love their neighbours, & themselves, therefore they should have made no scruple of adultery and murder, in these cases, in which the forbearing thereof did hinder the actions of love toward themselves and others: but aught to have judged those precepts in that strictness to belong rather to the law ceremonial, though the equity thereof pertaineth to the law moral, and so it is perpetually and simply to be observed. Which if you think not, as God forbidden you should, and you will profess (as I am persuaded) that you detest such thoughts: then do you acknowledge that it came rather of a lust to cross and contradict my speech, then of any doubt you had within yourself, that you say, a precept, which being strictly kept might breed some disadvantage to ourselves or others, must in this respect be counted ceremonial, and not be kept strictly, because the moral law is never contrary to love and charity in commanding or forbidding any thing. And sure you might have reason to take it not well, if I should suppose you to be so ill catechised, as that you knew not that the moral law commandeth us to t Deut. 6. 〈◊〉. Matt. 22. 3●…. love God above all things, and man after him; that v Deut. 6. 6. joh. 14. 15. our love to Godward is proved by the observing and keeping of his commandments; that if by keeping of them we should seem to hate man, we must x Gen. 22. 2. Luk. 14. 26. hate him rather, than not perform our love to God: that it followeth not hereof the law is contrary unto love neither, because to hate man so is to y Matt. 10. 37 love him less than God, in comparison, and not in deed to hate him; nay, it is to love him, sith it is to wish him and work him z Matt. 16. 26 Rom. 8. 13. 2. Cor. 4. 〈◊〉. greater good by loss of less good which he can not retain therewith. Howbeit, had you doubted, yet might you have found enough to resolve you, if you had read my writing rather with a mind to learn, then to gainsay, in as much as I showed by Scripture touching Peter, that he should not have lied to avoid the danger of whatsoever trouble: because to lie is evil; not allowed in any case by our lawgiver, no not for the defence of the glory of God, much less for the safety of man, a worm. Or, if, notwithstanding all that this could teach you, there might some occasion of doubting still remain: should you not have rather sought to be resolved by me in private conference, then publicly in writing (made common with many, even in the country also, not only in our University) to affirm a point implying flat atheism, that we are no farther to keep God's commandments, then stands with our commodity? and so conclusivelie to vouch it with an Ergo, as if it did follow necessarily, that all the laws of God (for your reason holdeth by consequent in all) must be set aside, like ceremonial matters, when our own, or other men's, honour, wealth, or life, cometh in question with them? and to add that the equity thereof yet pertaineth to the law moral, and so they are perpetually and simply to be observed? which seemeth by distinguishing their equity from strictness to strengthen them in sound meaning; in deed destroyeth them by teaching their transgressors how to defend most gross iniquity: as idolaters, for example, when, if a Dan. 3. 6. Nabuchodonosor do threaten he will burn all who worship not his golden image, they may say, that albeit in Deuteronomie God saith, b Deut. 5. 9 Thou shalt not bow down to them, nor worship them, yet sith the moral law is never contrary to love in forbidding any thing, and the place of Deuteronomie, being taken strictly, would hinder now men's actions of love toward themselves; Ergo in that strictness it belongeth rather to the law ceremonial, though the equity thereof pertaineth to the law moral, and so it is perpetually and simply to be observed. A sentence so ungodly, that when Peter only touched it a far off, or rather less than touched it, speaking of a particular case, no general law; nor Ergoing against it, nor terming the keeping of it strictness, nor plastering the breach of it with equity: but when he tended towards it by saying to our Saviour, c Matt. 16. 22 Master, pity thyself, this shall not be unto thee, our Saviour answered him, Get thee behind me, Satan, thou art an offence unto me, because thou savourest not the things that are of God, but the things that are of men. Suitable to this new argument of yours is the defence of your old (the only one you pressed before) from two examples. For whereas you had reasoned thus, Some men of Macedon, moved by Prince Alexander, did put on women's raiment to save the honour of Ladies; the like did Achilles, the son of Thetis, to save his life; Ergo it is lawful to do it in such cases; and I made answer thereto, that the reason is nought, because we are to live by laws, not by examples; neither may we lie or forswear ourselves to save our lives, or benefit others, though David & Peter did so, men worthier to be followed then Macedonians, or Achilles: you reply, that the reason is good (this must you mean by saying that the examples are alleged to good purpose in the circumstances that you apply them for, or else you delude us with an other sophism;) and why? For Alexander's fact is commended (say you) as proceeding from a most noble, and true heroical mind; and because it was better that the Persian Ambassadors were slain, then that the chastities of so many great Ladies should so dishonourably be either overthrown, or so much as assailed: and Thetis might well hide her son Achilles in a maiden's apparel in respect of motherly love & pity which she was to bear her son, knowing, as she did, that he should be slain in that journey to Troy, whether he was requested to accompany the other Grecian Lords. Touching the former whereof, to admit, that Alexander's fact proceeded from a noble true heroical mind, and that it was better the Persian Ambassadors were slain then the chastities of so many great Ladies should so dishonourably be overthrown, or assailed: yet doth it not follow that men might therefore lawfully put women's raiment on to kill them; the thing might be convenient and good to be done, the means of doing it not good. As 1 Satius est impunitum relinqui facinus nocentis, quàm innocentem damnari. it is better that a person guilty should be left unpunished, than a person guiltless should be condemned: and 2 Trajan the Emperor lib. 19 D. de poenis. he, whose saying this was, spoke it of a noble true heroical mind. Yet were the means nought to procure by bribes or by false witnesses the escape or acquittal of a guilty person: and if any man, who had used such dealing, should be commended for it, he should be commended amiss in that respect, as Alexander is by you. Now, for the later, how prove you that Thetis might well hide her son Achilles, as she did? You say, that you think not but she might do it well. So. Your reason then is: I think she might do it well; Ergo she might. A common kind of argument with you; but thin, and lean: nor likely to prove better at the length in trial, of whatsoever plight it seem in your writing. For let it far as it may in Topickes, in Analytickes it must fast: it can not away with mood and figure. And what if you think not that she might neither? as I think you do not; unless you think contraries, or speak otherwise then you think. For yourself affirm, that the putting on of women's raiment which is termed an abomination to the Lord in the place of Deuteronomie, is the wearing of it ordinarily, so to converse among men and women, against the course of all natural and civil regard. But Thetis, intending thereby to hide Achilles, did cloth him to converse so ordinarily among men and women: even longer, than he would endure to converse so; though d Statius Achilleid. li. 2. Natum ante pedes projecit. Neoptolemum. De quo Verg. Aeneid. lib. 2 Apollod. de orig. Deor. lib. 3. he endured for certain years. Therefore that, which she did, you think to be abominable: yea, pronounced in Scripture an abomination to the Lord. The less material is it whether that be true which by the way I noted, that Statius the Poet making Chiron, Calchas, and Achilles himself to reprove the putting of that raiment on him, meant that men of wise, virtuous, religious, ingenuous, valiant minds, did judge the thing simply in any case unlawful by the light of nature. Though I wish our judges, unto whose arbitrement I refer the matter, whether you control me therein well, or no, to mark that for Chiron, in whom are represented wise and virtuous persons, albeit you affirm he had a further reach than his words outwardly import: yet in setting down that reach you add, perhaps, as staggering at your own conceit; and withal acknowledge that his words outwardly, whereof you can not prove an other inward meaning, import as much as I said. Beside that they may justly suspect your partial censure, because, where I had likewise noted by the way that the fact of Achilles, deflowering Deidamia by means and occasion of his conversing so with her, doth show what inconvenience and danger of uncleanness cleaveth to the cladding of men in women's raiment: you do overthwartly & wrongfully cross my note by saying that he was likely to do as much in his own likeness any where else. For let malefactors be never so ready to practise any wickedness of their own corrupt and lewd inclination: the circumstances of manner, season, place, and so forth, commodious to perform it do more entice them thereunto. Weapons themselves (saith e Odyss. li. 2●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Homer) do draw men to fight: and 3 Occasio facit furem. opportunity maketh the eves. The force whereof in this thing I said enough to open by that, as f Ter. Eun. Chaerea could not have defiled Pamphila, no not in Thais house, without his eunuchs raiment: so, if woman's raiment had not come on g Sueton. julio, cap. 74. Plutarc. vit. Caes. & Cicer. Clodius, Caesar should not have put away his wife Pompeia so soon as he did; perhaps never. Or are you of opinion that with us it skilleth not whether scholars lodge in Colleges & Halls, or in townsmen's houses? Yea, although they be neither so much conversant, nor go in like attire, as Achilles used with Lycomedes daughter? Our Saviour said to his Disciples, h Mark. 9 4●… If thy foot cause thee to offend, cut it of; if thine eye cause thee to offend, pluck it out: meaning that we must sever ourselves from things and persons that are most dear unto us, if they be an occasion unto us of sin, and hinder us in the way of life. Yet a man that had heard him with your disposition, might have said, What needs it? seeing though we cut off one foot, or pluck out one eye, the other is likely to cause us to offend. Upon Moses words in Genesis, touching Dina, that i Gen. 34. 1 she went out to see the daughters of that country, and Sichem ravished her, k Calvin, Marlorat, Peter Martyr. godly learned interpreters observe that her wandering and idle curiosity is noted and reproved as an occasion of the villainy that was done unto her. Yet a gadding humour and wanton eye of maiden's loath to follow S. l Tit. 2. 5. Paul's rule and keep at home, might say that such teachers are puritans, who can not abide whitson-ladies: for Sichem was likely to do as much to Dina, though she had kept at home in her father's house, and never come in Sichems' sight. The very fact in question, whereon you mislike that I made this note of such occasions and enticements, hath the same observed therein by the m Statius Achilleid li. 1. Poet, the wise reporter of it: namely, that Achilles' lust was first kindled by seeing Deidamia; afterward increased by conversing with her; and finally accomplished by coming through the fallacy of his attire, like a woman, 4 Lex procal ire mares: iterat praecepta verendus Ductor, inaccessumque viris edicitur antrum. Nec satis est: stat fine dato metuenda sacerdos, exploratque aditus; nequis temerator ob erret Agmine faemineo: Tacitus sub●…isit Apollo. whither else in likeness of a man he could not. But whatsoever Statius judged of the matter, or others shall judge of that I noted by the way; you grant it was abominable by the law of God, for Thetis to put woman's raiment on her son Achilles, as she did. And so you have rather confirmed, then confuted, mine answer to your argument from the two examples of Macedonians and Achilles. You come in now anew with half a dozen more: three of men, attiring themselves in women's raiment; three of women, in men's. And quoting 5 Eucl. Mega. Theop. rex. Spar. Antenor Cepha. Euphrosyna virgo Antioch. Theod. virgo & Martyr. Eugenia Romana. their names only in your margin, you say that if you had thought that these two examples should not have been taken in your meaning, that is, only in the circumstance for the which you alleged them, you could have used many true stories of both sexes, to the which no such exceptions could have been taken. Wherein, to pass over, that by giving the name of true to those stories, you make it very probable that you meant n Vlyss. red. resp. ad Momum. before under the name of stories, the fable of Achilles, as I supposed you did by the drift of your words, (speaking first in general of 6 Id quod crebra testari potest Histor. stories proving 7 Quid si cogeret lethi metus Mutare vestem? publicum quid si bonum Suaderet? two points; then bringing 8 vest filius Amyntae indui juvenes muliebri dum ●…bet, tot faeminis Claris pudorem servat one in special to prove the one of them, 9 Vitam tuetur silius Thetidis suam. Achilles to prove the other) which yet you deny to have been your meaning, and charge me with untruth in effect for saying it: you do farther charge me that I have not taken those two examples in your meaning. No have? Why? Meant you not by them to conclude, that a man may lawfully put on woman's raiment, to save his life, or benefit many, because in such cases Achilles and the Macedonians did put on such raiment? And have not I expressly set this reason down, affirming it to be your reason, and making mine answer accordingly thereto? yes: but I have also in mine answer to it noted other circumstances of the same examples, thereby to make plainer the badness of your reason: and so I have not taken them in your meaning, that is (as you expound it) only in the circumstance for the which you alleged them. You are a merry man, and not much unlike in this respect to one, who when he had taken up a waster and buckler in Cheapside at London to play with an apprentice, & the apprentice rapped him, sometime upon the head, sometime upon the elbow, or shoulder, or side, he cast them down again; saying, that if he had thought that the apprentice would not have strooken upon his buckler still, he would not have played with him. Yet in this you vary from the vain of his speech, that you say you could have used many true stories of both sexes, to the which no such exceptions could have been taken. Though you help yourself no more by this varying, then if his skill had served him to have warded all the blows with his buckler; his weakness being nevertheless unable to resist, but that he might have had his buckler beaten about his ears. For what if no such exceptions could be taken against your six examples? Doth not the same answer that I made to your reason from the Macedonians example, and Achilles, beat down these also to the ground: sith none of them is equal to David, or to Peter, whose actions notwithstanding are no sufficient warrants for us? Moreover, as in beheading of noble personages, that are traitors, the executioner, having cut of their heads, doth hold them up in his hands, & show them to the people: so I, having thus beheaded, as it were, these your six examples, I mean, the reason drawn from them, perhaps (notwithstanding your confident assertion that no such exceptions can be taken against them) might hold them up in my hands, and show that they are dead, by the like or more absurd consecutions from other circumstances thereof. For example, in one or two, the chiefest of them, the first of each sex, Euclides, and Euphrosyna; the story of Euclides is, that when the o A. 〈◊〉. noct. Art. lib. 6. cap. 10. Athenians, having their neighbours of Megara in great hatred, had decreed that if any of the men of that city were found within Athenes, he should suffer death: Euclides being of it, and loath to lose the benefit of the school of Socrates, with whom he used to be at Athenes and to hear him, before that law was made, did clothe himself in woman's attire towards evening; went from his house in Megara to Athenes, unto Socrates; enjoyed his speech and conference some part of the night time; and when day approached, returned home again a little more than twenty miles in the same attire. Now, if this were lawfully done, because he did it: then p Matt. Paris. hist. Ang. in Ricardo pri. William Bishop of Ely, who, to save his honour and wealth, became a 1 Tunica viridi faeminea indutus; capam habens ejusdem coloris, peplum in capite muliebre portans. greenesleeves, going in woman's raiment less way than twenty miles, from Dover castle to the Sea side, did therein like a man; although the women of Dover, when they had found it out by plucking down his muffler & seeing his newshaven beard, 2 Mulierculae clamorem ad sidera tollentes, Venite, inquiunt, & lapidemus hoc monstrum, quod sexum utrumque deformavit. called him a monster for it: then with us a scholar, who thinketh of some man, as Euclid did of Socrates, and can not well frequent his house in the day time for suspicion of lewdness with his Xanthippe, or of Popery, may come like a maiden thither in the night: then our University Statute of nightwalkers would be taken away, or qualified at least; and if our Proctors meet one like a woman at midnight, they must not be suspicious; some studious youth, it may be, come from Wickam or Beaconsfield, and daring not to travail by day for thieves through Shotover, is going to some learned man. In like sort, touching Euphrosyna, a maid of Alexandria, (of Antioch 3 Euphrosyna virgo Antioch you name her, by slip of pen or memory) the story is, that q Sim Metaphrast. vit. S. Euphrosynes Alexander. apud Surium, de probat. Sanct. histor. Tom. 1. she, desiring much to live in an Abbay like a monk, 4 Cur metuum parentem lugentem & tristen reliquisti? Non te ad hanc spem alebam, sed ut haberem baculum senectutis, solatium imbecillitatis meae. forsook not only her father, who had brought her up to be a staff in his old age, a comfort in his weakness to him; but also a 5 Pater uniqui praestabat om nibus, opibus, gloria, & virtute, despondit puellam. worthy, noble, virtuous gentleman, to whom she was betrothed; clad in man's apparel she came unto the Abbot; and being asked of him who she was, from what place, & for what cause she came, she answered, that 6 Se vocari qui dem Smaragdú: esse autem ex aula Imperatoris. her name in deed was Smaragdus, and she was of the emperors Court, and came to that Abbay to lead a holy life, if she might be admitted; and so finding favour to be admitted as a man, she lived there 7 Triginta & ●…cto aunos. eight and thirty years in man's apparel. Whereof if you infer again, as you do, Euphrosyna did it, Ergo lawful; a better proof, I grant, then, Achilles did it, or Mocedonians did it, because they were profane men, r Martyrolog. Roman. januar. 1. Graecor. menolog Caes. Baron. notationib. in martyrolog. Roman. Euphrosyna is a Saint; but as you reason thus: likewise may an other in the same mood and figure; Euphrosyna, through a desire of moonkish perfection, refused to honour her father; Ergo s Mark. 7. 9 Christ did wrongfully check the Scribes and Pharisees for breaking Gods commandments to keep traditions of men: Euphrosyna chose rather to be with others then with him to whom she was betrothed; Ergo Moses erred in teaching that a t Deut. 22. 23. maid betrothed is a v verse. 24. wife, & that x Gen. 2. 24. the wife should cleave inseparably to her husband: Euphrosyna lied for a vantage; Ergo St. y 1. joh. 2. 21. john was a precisian, who condemneth all lies: Euphrosyna conversed in men's apparel, amongst men, eight and thirty years; Ergo D. Gager mistook the place of Deuteronomie, when he gave it this meaning, that to go attired so ordinarily is abomination to the Lord. See you now what manner if true stories, of true all, you could have used of both sexes? and how bold you were in saying that no such exceptions could be taken to them, as to the former? The which notwithstanding, were it as you say, you do no more help your argument thereby, then if a traitor being beheaded, whom you favoured, you stayed the executioner from holding up his head, and sowed it on again yourself to his body with close and handsome stitches. For although no such exceptions could be taken to any of your examples, yet had I beheaded with the z Heb. 4. 13. the sword of God's word the reason drawn from them: and with justinian's sword too, in that I adjoined for your sake out of your law, that we are to live by laws, not by examples: and to 8 Non tam spectandum est quid Romae factum sit, quàm quid fieri debeat. lib. 12. D. de Officio Praesid. look, not so much what is done any where, as what ought to be done. Hereunto you add an other new argument to show that the place of Deuteronomie toucheth certain cases only, not generally forbiddeth a man to put on woman's raiment: and that is, the opinion and judgement of Divines. For after you had delivered these expositions of it, as liked by yourself, that to wear such raiment of a lewd intent, the rather thereby, & the more safely to be in the company of women to bring some bad purpose about; or of an effeminate mind to suffer his hear to grow long, or to frizell it; or in speech, colour, gate, gesture, and behaviour to become womanish; or ordinarily so to converse among men and women, against the course of all natural, and civil regard, is abomination to the Lord: and noted it moreover to be expounded by other thus, that women are forbidden to put on the armour of men, and men the raiment of women, because at that time it was superstitious, in as much as among the Gentiles women wore men's armour in the sacrifices of Mars, and men wore women's ornaments and instruments, as distaff, spindle, and such like, in the sacrifices of Venus; and therefore is it added that he who doth so is abominable to God because abomination is taken in the Scriptures commonly for idolatry, or some thing belonging to idolatry: but after you had set down these expositions, you say that all the Divines whom ever you talked with of this matter, do affirm the true meaning of that place to be contained in these senses rehearsed. Wherein by alleging the consent of all Divines that ever you talked with hereof, as making for you, first, you grant yourself never to have talked here of with S. Cyprian, Chrysostome, Procopius, Thomas Aquinas, Liranus, Calvin, Hyperius, Beza, Bishop Babington; who making it a point annexed (as I showed) to the seventh commandment, do imply the meaning thereof to be larger than your rehearsed senses: never with a Strom. lib. 2 Clemens Alexandrinus, b De fide & legib. cap. 13 Gulielmus Parisiensis, c In Deutero. artic. 23. Dionysius Carthusianus, d Declamat. in Deuter. Ferus, e Annot. Paraphr. Onkeli Chald. in Deutero. Fagius, f Ethic. Christian. lib. 2. cap. 14. Danaeus; who by handling it in like sort as the former, do testify their agreement with them in the conclusion: never with Tertullian, g Divin. institut. lib. 6. cap. 20. Lactantius, h Soliloquior. lib. 2. cap. 16 Austin, the Bishops assembled in the sixth general council to the number of above two hundred and twenty: who partly by urging that place against stage-players partly by condemning the thing it speaketh of, as lewd, do evidently argue that they are of a different mind from you concerning it. Or sith you having had the most of these quoted in my letters to you, do grant, for Cyprian namely & the general concel, that they make against you, & therefore seem, in citing all that ever you talked with; to mean not such as you have read and perused, but whom you have asked thereof by word of mouth: then, why should you more enforce against me the sayings and judgement of all that ever you talked with, than I against you the sayings and judgements of all that ever I talked with? For as you report of them whom you talked with that they are very godly and excellently learned: in like sort may I of them whom I talked with. And of mine you can not but the rather believe me, because I named you one, of whom yourself answer, that you esteem him to be a good man, a good scholar, and a good Preacher: you name me none of yours. Again, there hath not any of yours in public place, where men do speak with greater advice to Christian auditories, avouched that which you hold: he, whom you commend, and commend justly, hath preached the same that I teach. But, you say, he could not justify his speech, uttered so publicly, if it should come to due trial. But, I say, this speech of yours so publicly uttered is come to due trial, and you can not justify it. For he, having opened the words of his text, i Psal. 119. 10 Let me not wander from thy commandments, & begun to show what a contrary course unto the Prophet's practice we take now a days, did prosecute it thus. To let pass other things, let stage-plays in the University, and May-games in the town, speak whether these things be so. In k Deut. 22. 5. Deuteronomie the precept is, The woman shall not put on man's raiment, neither shall a man put on woman's raiment; for all that do so are abomination to the Lord: And it is the l 1. The. 5. 22 Apostles precept to abstain from all appearance of evil. Whether the former precept be broken in all plays, I know not. Sure very few or none there are, wherein either the one, or both, is not broken: either through the vile scurrility of the matter oftentimes unbeseeming chaste ears; or through the time for the preparing for them; or through the unnecessary charges about them; or through the manifold dangers coming both to actors, and spectators, by them. Hereupon, having added somewhat touching may-games, he made this exhortation. The Prophet prayeth unto the Lord, that he may not wander from his commandements. His action ought to be thine instruction: and art thou so far from following him that thou treadest his law under thy feet, and castest his words behind thee? Take heed, fear, and tremble; thou hast not to deal with man, but with God: who hath left thee his law, not to dally withal, or cunningly to deceve thyself with thine own glosses upon the same, but to be the witness of his will, and rule of thy life. This is the same speech, and all, that he did utter so publicly hereof; set down in writing by himself before he uttered it: a speech, that in this present trial between us is already justified, and shall be declared farther to be m 1. Cor. 3. 12 gold, silver, precious stones, in the day of great trial. So shall the same doctrine delivered by S. Cyprian, the sixth general council, and other worthy men: when of the contrary side your wood, hay, stubble, shall be consumed by fire. In the mean season yourself do lay open your own corrupt affections, & blaze your own shame sundry ways. One, in that you say, that you trust you shall not seem to any man to wrong S. Cyprian & the rest, if you follow the opinion of others both very godly & excellently learned, who do interpret that text of Deuter. otherwise then he, or they do: specially in a case that toucheth you so near, wherein you are to defend yourself and many your good friends from the reproach of open infamy. For you speak therein, as if the question being of an other text, n Deut. 23. 19 Thou shalt not give to usury unto thy brother, o D. wilson's discourse upon usury. which some newer writers expound against unmerciful and cutting usury, as they term it; not against all usury, as Austin with a number of ancient Fathers doth; an usurer should say: I trust I shall not seem to any man to wrong S. Austin and the rest, if I follow the opinion of others, both very godly and excellenly learned, who do expound that text otherwise then he, or they do; specially in a case that toucheth me so near, wherein I am to defend myself, and many my good friends, from great discredit and discommodity. An other, in that you add, that you well wot it little becometh you to say, Da veniam Cyprian. In deed, for myself, whom in this you glance at, I must confess I thought that it did become p Praefat. thes. de sacr. scrip. and eccles. me to say, Da veniam Cyprian, upon the circumstances that I said it: which, if it were a fault, though D. q His answer to the preface of Gre. Mar. discovery, sect. 15. Fulke thought otherwise, but if it were, it was of error; and I will recant it, if you confute the 9 Set down in the end of my conference with nn: in the Defence of such things as Tho. Stapleton, & Gregory Martin have carped at in my Theses. reasons that moved me to think it did become me so to say. But you, who wot well (by your own confession) it little becometh you to say, Da veniam Cyprian, do thereby acknowledge, that although you are persuaded, as you pretend, the proper natural sense of the word of God to be on your side, not on Cyprians; in truth you are not so. For else you would think that it should become you very well to say, Pardon me, O Cyprian: sith you know, I hope, that it became the Apostles very well to say, r Act. 5. 29. We ought rather to obey God then men. And if it do little become you to say, Pardon me, O Cyprian, when yet you descent from him and contradict him: than you glozed in saying that with all humbleness you reverence his authority; seeing, to crave 1 Quod divinarum Scripturarum autoritati congruit in literis Cypriani, cum laud eius accipio: quod autem non congruit, cum pace eius respuo. August. count Cresco. gramma. lib. 2 cap. 32. leave and pardon, in dissenting, is a sign of reverence. And if to use so mild words, Pardon me, O Cyprian, it become you little: how much less, to say, as in effect you do, 2 Maledicta textum glossa quae vitiat bonum. Vlyss. red. resp. ad Mom. It is a cursed gloss, O Cyprian, which thou makest? And if unto Cyprian alone it little becometh you to say so much: how greatly unbeseeming is it for you to say it unto such a number, both of old, & new interpreters, besides him? Finally, for an upshoote, where you say that he, as a godly man, was carried with a vehement & a perfect hatred against the detestable abuses of the heathen spectacles in his time: you grant that the spectacles of plays set forth by you have detestable abuses in them; sith the 3 Cothurnus est tragicus prisca facinora carmine recensere: de parricidis & incestis horror antiquus, expressa ad imaginem veritatis actione, replicatur Cypr. epist. 2 ad Donat. tragedies, the playing whereof he detesteth, are such as your Ulysses; the 4 Vt ad scenae sales inverecundos transitum faciam, pudet referre quae dicuntur pudet etiam accusare quae fiunt: agentium strophas, adulterorum fallacias, mulierum impudicitias, scurriles iocos, parasitos sordidos; ipsos quoque patres familiâs togatos, modo stupidos, modò obscoenos, in omnibus stolidos, certis nominibus inverecundos. Cyprian. de spectac. cap. 5. Comedies, as your Rivales: and so, how little care you have of being godly, who are not only not carried with an hatred, I say not, with a vehement & perfect hatred, against them, but also dote upon them, & write defences of them, I judge you not, your own mouth judgeth you. As for those godly and learned Divines, who being talked withal by you touching the true sense of the place of Deuteronomie, did make that answer which you mention: what if they, misliking your resolute intent, did follow the example of Michaeas the Prophet? s 1. King. 22. 15. who being asked by king Achab wheher he should go against Ramoth Gilead to battle, or leave off; did answer him, Go up, & prosper; & the Lord shall deliver it into the hand of the king. What if in a merriment, knowing why you asked it, they spoke unto you, as Cassellius a lawyer unto a certain Roman? t Macrob. Saturn lib. 2. cap. 6. Of whom, when Uatinius having had stones thrown at him by the people, to whom he was odious, did purpose to set forth a spectacle of fencers, and had gotten the magistrates to make proclamation that no man should cast aught into the place of spectacles saving an apple only; Cascellius being asked, whether a pine apple were an apple, If thou mean to hurl it at Vatianus, it is, quoth he. What if you mistook the sum of their answer, or a word therein? they telling you perhaps that the true meaning of the place of Deuteronomie doth contain those senses which are rehearsed by you; and you misconstruing them as if they had said that the true meaning thereof is contained in those senses rehearsed, and so may in no case be extended farther. Of which three conjectures (you force me to divine of them, and between them, because you would not name the parties whom you cite, that by themselves I might learn what they said, and why,) the last in my opinion seemeth most probable: considering it is likely that godly learned men would look what had been written upon the place by interpreters; and the interpreters, whose words, even translated by you in a manner, are an evident token what your Divines told you, do specify those things as meant, in such sort, that they deny not but more might be meant; yea most of them affirm the general to be meant also. For, of five particulars (so many you set down) Strabus, the author of the ordinary Gloss, hath two: namely that a man 5 Mulieris naturaliter diversus est colour, motus, incessus, vires must not become womanish in colour, gate, and so forth; nor 6 Comam crispare, torquere capillos: undeapostolus, vir si comam nutrierit, ignominia est. illi. suffer his hear to grow long, or frizill it. The other three, that he may not put on woman's raiment, 7 Posset intrare vir ad mulierem sub habitu muliebri thereby the more safely to be in women's company, to bring about some bad purpose; nor 8 Quas natura sexu discreverat, discernat & vestitus. ordinarily so to converse among men and women, against the course of natural & civil regard; nor 9 In sacris Veneris viri effaeminabantur. Or, as Liranus speaketh, whose words you express, portabant ornamenta & instrumenta mulierum, utpote colum, fusum & similia. to be womanlike in the sacrifices of Venus: these hath Gulielmus Alvernus, Bishop of Parise, and Carthusianus after him; Aquinas, and Liranus too, the last of them. Now Strabus saith not that those two things alone are meant: the rest do say that so much more is meant then the other three, as proveth my assertion. For the v Guliel. Pari. de fide & legib. cap. 13. Bishop of Parise, cited and abbridged by Dionysius Carthusianus, among sundry causes why the law of God should forbid a man to put on woman's raiment, giveth this for one, 1 Vt occasio magna provocationi libidinis auferretur. that a great occasion of provoking men to lust might be taken away. For 2 Magna provocatio libidinis viris est vestitus muliebris. the apparel of women (saith he) is a great provocation of men to lust and lechery: because a 3 Vestis muliebris viro circundata vehementer refricat memoriam & commovet imaginationem mulieris. woman's garment being put on a man doth vehemently touch and move him with the remembrance & imagination of a woman; and 4 Imaginatio rei desiderabilis commovet desiderium. the imagination of a thing desirable doth stir up the desire. The same in 5 Incentivum est concupiscentiae, & occasionem libidini praestat. 1 a 2 ●. quaest. 102. art. 6. fewer words Aquinas doth affirm. And Liranus farther, having declared what moved him to prefer the last exposition (rehearsed by yourself, though somewhat confusely, which I was bold to mend in the recital of it, the better here to be understood) saith, that if the text be meant of common apparel, 6 Prohibetur hîc talis usus, vel potius abusus, quia est occasio libidinis. then is such an use or rather abuse forbidden, because it is an occasion of wantonness and lust. Wherein he hath relation to that, whereas the 7 Heb. CEL●… word, used in the former branch of the sentence touching men's furniture not to be worn by women, doth sometime signify common apparel, sometime armour; he had said, that this place, he thought, the signification of armour fitted best: induced thereunto because he had read that women in the sacrifices of Mars did bear armour; and the reason added, for all that do so are abomination to the Lord, might well enough agree, sith matters of idolatry are commonly in the Scriptures termed abomination. But seeing it appeareth not by sufficient proof that women wore men's armour in the sacrifices of Mars, or men wore women's distaffs, spindle's, and such like, in the sacrifices of Venus; and the later branch of the law forbidding a man to put on woman's 8 Heb. SIMLAH. raiment, doth show that common apparel is meant in the former, as S. Hierome also in the vulgar 9 Non induetur mulier vest virili: nec vir utetur vest faeminea. Latin translation hath noted: it followeth that Liranus resteth and resolveth upon the general sense and exposition as truest. By consequence whereof the word, abomination, must not be restrained to matters of idolatry, but taken in his natural meaning: according to the like use thereof in like places, where the x Levi. 18. 22 & 20. 13. Deut. 23. 〈◊〉. law condemneth those execrable villainies, to which this change of raiment provoketh and enticeth. Thus seeing that no one of all those interpreters, by whom the expositions, which you rehearse, are set down, denieth that the law extendeth farther than your specialties, & most of them affirm it: I fear it were a fault in me to believe you, that godly learned Divines, with whom you talked thereof, should all avouch unto you the thing you father on them. Howbeit, if they did, and you will needs enforce their testimony against me; mine answer made to Cyprian, to them I must apply: The law forbidding men to put on women's raiment, saith that all who do so are abomination to the Lord. What? And have godly learned Divines said otherwise? Pardon me, ye godly & learned Divines; I would believe you gladly, but that believing you I should not believe the word of God. And I assure myself so much of their modesty, that though you, with y The preface of his discovery. Gregory Martin, do taunt me for my presumptuous saying, Pardon me O Cyprian: yet, sith z Retractat. lib. 2. cap. 18 Austin thought he might, without any disgrace unto Cyprian, allow of Tychonius the Donatists exposition as better sitting a place of scripture, than his did; they will not take it hardly that I prefer the judgement of Cyprian, with Austin, and such, so many other both old and new interpreters, before theirs in this point. But you, to cut the cable of my chiefest anchor, 1 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Chrys. homil. 4. de Lazaro. the sacred anchor, as they term it, which is, the generality of the law itself, pronouncing all abominable who change their raiment so, betake yourself at the last to this desperate refuge, that though the proposition be a general affirmative, All men are abomination who put on woman's apparel, yet in your cases it suffereth exception. I call this refuge desperate, because your own handling thereof doth seem to argue, that when you came unto it, you did tread on thorns; and felt that you should be pitifully pricked, if you stood long upon it. For when, unto the rules of law which I cited, that every special is suspended when the general is suspended, and he who forbiddeth the general will not have the special practised, you had replied that these rules are to be understood of those generals that absolutely command, and necessarily comprehend their specials sub potestate sua, not those which must endure controlment as it were, & suffer exceptions to restrain their power; you give this reason of it: For general propositions, both in Divinity, and Law, do usually admit particular exceptions and limitations, quae derogant generalitati: of which sort this proposition, that we have in hand, is; as there are many more of like nature, which you could allege (you say) to illustrate these rules, but that they are plain to me, and you are weary already, and have a great way yet to go, and fear that I am stark tired with your tedious discourse. It is recorded by a Appian. de bellis Parth. Plutarch. vita Crassis. historians that the Parthians used to fly from their enemies, & withal to strike them with arrows shot backward. Whereupon b Epistol. lib. 2. epist. 1. Horace, affirming that he wrote no verses at all, when he wrote many, doth compare himself to 2 Ipse ego qui nullos me affirmo scribere versus, Invenior Parthis mendacior. them, who fought most, when they pretended flight. You resemble the Parthians in your 3 Versis animosum equis Parthum. Horat. carm. lib. 1. odd 19 courageous flying: you will not seem to withdraw yourself, as overcome, but as weary with killing, & having other exploits to do, and taking pity of me. Only you differ from them, in that you shoot no arrows while you are flying away; which else I might be afraid of, as c Carm. lib. 2. od. 13. Horace saith their 4 Miles sagittas & celerens fugan Parthi. soldiers were. For your axiom urged in manner of a proof, that general propositions both in Divinity, and Law, do usually admit particular exceptions; proveth just nothing: unless peradventure you think that in good Logic this argument will hold: Some general propositions, for the word usually betokeneth some not all; some therefore do admit particular exceptions; Ergo the proposition we have in hand doth so. A shaft so unshapen without head or feather, that although the steel, I mean the antecedent thereof, be well wrought, & many examples might you allege to illustrate it, if need were: yet yourself durst not as much as make a show of nocking, and drawing it, to shoot it of with an Ergo. But I of the contrary side will so encounter this devise of yours, that there shall no more life be left therein, then there was in d 1 Kin. 22. 35 Achab the evening after he was wounded. And that by means of this argument. No particular exception is good against a general proposition in Divinity, save only such as Scripture maketh and warranteth. But your asseveration, that men may put on women's raiment in stage-plays, is a particular exception not warranted by Scripture, against the general proposition that all who do so are abominable. Therefore mens wearing of women's raiment on stages can not be good in Divinity. The major of which syllogism the Law (to go no farther) matched with Divinity by yourself in this case of rules and limitations, propositions & exceptions, will approve unto you. For if against a general rule and proposition, as for example sake, that e D. de just. & iure. lib. 10. Cic. de Offic. lib 1. right ought always to be done, a man of f Cic. de Offi. lib. 3. Sueto. julio Caes. cap. 30. Caesar's mind should by way of exception and limitation say, that it ought in deed, save when a kingdom may be gotten by doing injury and wrong: must we allow this exception? No. And why? Because it is not warranted by any text of Law. Hence is it that g In si. 11. D. de in ius vocando. Bartolus, and Glossa communis after him, affirming absolutely that where the law distinguisheth not, we may not distinguish, do show that they mean this, not of any one law, but of the whole body, to weete, that 5 Vbi lex non distinguit, nos non debemus distinguere, nisi illa lex distinguatur per aliam. we may not distinguish upon a law, unless that law by some other law be so distinguished. Likewise, in Divinity, if against the doctrine of h Psal 106. 3. doing righteousness at all times (to press the same example) a woman like i 1. Kin. 21. 8. jezabel, or men like the Elders and Governors, whom she wrote to, should say that general rules may admit exceptions, and righteousness is requisite to be done at all times, save when land may be gotten by suborning false witnesses, or a king pleased by shedding innocent blood: this might be very justly called a 6 Maledicta textum glossa quae vitiat bonum. cursed gloss, because the Scripture doth not teach in any place that it is lawful to do evil for advantage, or gratifying of Princes. Neither could the k 2. Tim. 3. 17 Apostle rightly praise the Scripture, as serving to furnish a man of God perfectly unto all good works, if a work therein commanded or forbidden generally, as good or nought, were contrariwise abominable or allowable in particulars not declared by Scripture. Which moved S. Austin, among lessons given for the right expounding thereof, to make this one, that l De doctr. Christ. lib. 3. cap 28. doubtful points of Scripture ought to be cleared by the Scripture itself, because m lib. 2. cap. 9 all such things as touch faith and manners are set down plainly in the Scripture. True it is therefore that no particular exception, in Divinity, may be admitted against a general proposition, unless the Scripture warrant it: which was the first part of my syllogism. The next, that your assertion touching mens wearing of women's raiment in stage-plays, is a particular exception not warranted by Scripture against a general proposition: must needs be granted also. Specially by you: who, having talked thereof with Divines, both many, and excellently learned, perceive that none of them could bring forth any warrant out of Scripture for it. Wherefore, the conclusion, against your stage-play-wemen, may cause both them and you to die your faces with that colour, which a n Diog. Laenrt. in Diogene. Philosopher termed well 7 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. the colour of virtue: and I pray God it do. So the commandment, that a man shall not put on woman's raiment, being proved to reach unto all in general, even such, as for the saving of honour, wealth, or life, do it, much more whom nothing moveth thereto but a playing humour: it followeth to be sifted whether there be truth and weight in that you add, that your players did not wear women's raiment. A thing avouched by you in like sort almost, as if o 1 Kin. 22. 34 Achab being wounded to death with an arrow sticking in his side, should have said, I am not hurt. But this, which, if he had brought reason to persuade men, he might have seemed desirous to be mad with reason, you labour to confirm, saying that you may not in deed be said at all to wear women's apparel, because wearing implieth a custom and a common use of so doing: whereas you do it for an hour, or two, or three, to represent an others person, by one that is openly known to be as he is in deed. For answer whereunto, first, passing over your idle addition concerning the 8 To represent an others person. end and 9 By one that is openly known to be as he is in deed. circumstance of your using it; which I term idle, because if men should use it still to whatsoever end, and openly known to be the same they are, as p Suet. in Ner. cap. 28. Sporus was, they may indeed be said to wear it, you will grant: but first if it be only for an hour, or two, or three, that you do it; where are your women dressed? by whom? at what time? all at the same moment they come upon the stage? and hath none been dressed at noon, to play at night? and hath it not been towards midnight, ere some plays ended? Next, if it be true, that wearing implieth a custom and a common use of so doing: then belike it may not be said that Nero the Emperor did ever wear any garment. For 1 Nullam vestem bis induit. he did never put on any garment twice, as q Nero. ca 30 Suetonius writeth: and therefore had no custom and common use of any. Furthermore, suppose that you might not be said to wear women's apparel; yet are you not the nearer to that which you intent: sith the Scripture saith, that a man shall not put on woman's raiment, and you do put it on (I trow) when you play, whether you wear it, or no. Finally, the Prophet's 2 Heb. jilbosch word, betokening this in the original text, is the very same with that whereby r 1 Sam 17. 38 the armour of Saul is described to have been put on David. Now if David who put off saul's armour by and by, within half an hour, a quarter, or less much; yet had it put on, after the phrase of Scripture: may it not be said, that they, who went in women's raiment certain hours, did that which Scripture speaketh of, English it as you list, put on, or wear such raiment? Alas, 3 Quam miserum est id negare non posse quod sit turpissimum confiteri? in how miserable plight is he, saith s Phillipp. 2. Tully, who can not deny that, which to confess it is most shameful? I, with a little change of his sentence, must lament your case, who dare not confess that which to deny it is most shameful. For how many hundreds are there of eye-witnesses, that your Euryclea, Melantho, Penelope, Phoedra, Nais, others, did wear wemens raiment? How many did observe, and with mislike have mentioned, that Penelope's maids did not only wear it, but also sat in it among true women in deed, longer than David wore saul's armour? neither were more known to them to be men, than Achilles was at first to Deidamia; until they suspected it, seeing them entreated by the wooers to rise and danse upon the stage. I wish there had not been so bad a token to convince you; nor so many beholders to testify thereof: though I am glad withal that they had such mislike of the thing testified. And this commodity by it beside, that I might fear else, lest you, who did before deny that men playing on your stage, are stage-players; and do deny here that the players of women's parts wear women's raiment; would at length deny that you had any plays at all; and so accuse me of slandering your friends for being on the stage, when they were in their studies. The third head of reasons, knit up under the title of losing time in t Vlys●…●…ed. 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉 Mom. your speech, but containing loss of better things than time, I declared the strength of, chief by this argument. To imitate and resemble wantonness, scurrility, impudency, drunkenness, or any other misbehaviour, is a thing unlawful: But sundry misbehaviours were imitated and resembled by Penelope's wooers, her maids, Rivales, mariners, Phaedra, the Nurse, the Nymph, and others in the playing of your tragedies and comedy: The playing therefore of them is to be misliked. Whereagainst you say not much for the mayor. Only, for as much as I, beside a number both of divine authorities, and human, avouching it, alleged your own consent too, in that you affirm that 4 Virile non est faeminae mores sequi. it beseemeth not men to follow women's manners: you say your meaning was, that it doth not beseem them to follow women's manners in the common course of life, to the perverting of the law of nature, honesty, and comeliness; or for any evil purpose; yet a boy, by way of representation only, may, not indecently, imitate may denlie or womanly demeanour. Which answer though it seemeth to deny your approving of my reproof in part, about young men's imitating of the manners of women: yet the greatest part thereof doth it approve. For I found most fault with imitating the manners of strumpets and bawds, Melantho, Phaedra, the Nurse: and, I trust, you will not say that the demeanour of such unmaidenly maidens, & unwemenly women, is either maidenly or womanly. But whatsoever you say touching your own sentence, and after your common course of distinguishing interpret it as meant in the common course of life, to the perverting of the law of nature, honesty and comeliness, or for any evil purpose: it sufficeth me, that you durst not apply these distinctions to the Scriptures, Fathers, or foreign writers, by which I confirmed the major of mine argument and you acknowledge it to be truly confirmed. The minor is the hedge, whereat, as the lowest, you were in hope that you might leap over with less difficulty. And in this confidence you ask What proportion there is between those things, which I enlarge in my mayor; and those things which in particular application against you, are used in my minor? To the which question I will make no answer, till you have considered and told me what proportion there is between an Elephant, and Maximinus the Emperor. But the minor of mine argument, whereto I must hold you, and not give you leave thus to run at riot upon every wandering conceit of proportions; the minor of mine argument, I say, is most certain, & true, in every branch thereof. Though neither is your cunning and art, by the way, to be passed over, that whereas I having in general disclosed the hurt of amatory dancing, did note in particular your wooers dancing with their minions: you reply that they dansed only two solemn measures, without any lighter galliard; and hereupon you ask me, What Herod could be inflamed? What Propertius ravished? what flame of lust kindled thereby in men's hearts? what wounds of love imprinted? whose senses could be moved, or affections delighted more than ought to be, or may honestly be? What enemies of chastity made by this sight? what strong or constant heart vanquished; nay, what reed shaken thereby? What so much as flax or tow set on fire? Great cry, and little wool: as who say that I had applied all these things to dancing alone; and not divers of them to amatory kissing, amatory embracing, and amatory pangs expressed in most effectual sort, together with it. Or, as who say farther, that none could be touched with any spark of lust by seeing the supposed gentlewomen danse so small a time, so gravely with gallant lusty yoonkers; because you, a marvelous indifferent judge, & well seen in things of this quality, do pronounce that none could. v divin. instit. lib. 3. cap. 28 Lactantius, controlling a sentence, wherein x De Offi. li. 2 Tully had magnified the force of fortune, and given edge thereto with an interrogation, 5 Quis. inquit, nescit? Ego verò nescio. Who knoweth not that Fortune is of great force both ways, either to prosperity, or to adversity? forsooth, saith he, I know it not. In like sort they whose judgement herein is so much sounder, less dazzled with affection and prejudice, then yours, as in matters touching God and true Religion, Lactantius was then Tully's, may answer your demands, that many Herod's might be inflamed, many a Propertius ravished thereby. For your partiality and weakness of sight doth bewray itself, in that, where I had noted how your new Nymph, by lively expressing of amorous pangs, brought fuel enough to heat & melt a heart of ice or snow: you reply, that she hath been worse reported of to me a great deal, than she did deserve, as I and the world shall one day see. Now she was so reported of to me by Lactantius, I mean, a man whose word I offer you no wrong if I believe before yours; a man, that deserveth to be as well esteemed of, as he, for sundry causes, & for some, better, a man, who did report it, not of surmise, but of knowledge; not of hearsay, but of sight; not of that which might be, but which had happened in senses and affections moved and tickled with it. And the thing which the world and I should one day see, whereby your meaning showed in the words ensuing, is, that she did proffer honest, lawful, virtuous, mariage-meaning love, as 6 Panniculus Hippolyto Se necae tragaediae assutus Append Meleagr. her speech committed now to print declareth; doth not prove that he reported worse a great deal to me of her expressing those pangs, than she deserved. For that very 7 jugalem pariter ineamus torum Libamina ad te prima seruatae affero Famae, & iuventae: tu pariter ad me tua Affer; & uterque carpas utriusque hanc rosam Primam integramque. action, which she did insinuate herself to be 8 Miserere amorem Naidis fassae gravem, Nunquamque fassurae, nisi hanc furor ultimus vocem expulisset. enraged & 9 Sed uror intus, fateor. burn with desire of, is y Heb. 13. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. honest, and lawful, belonging unto virtuous and mariage-meaning love. Yet if one should say, that the open doing of it, like a z Dio Laenr. in Hipparchia. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Cynic, or using of sweet words and gestures tending to it, like a Xen. convi●…. Bacchus and Ariadne, can not shake a reed, much less surprise or wound a strong and constant heart: he might seem unworthy to be talked withal by men of ingenuous modesty and judgement. Wherefore sith the proffer of nothing else but honest and mariage-meaning love, made in words only by a handsome boy appareled like a woman did ravish a Propertius, and inflame an Herode; notwithstanding you thought that it could not possibly work any such effect, as I and the world also should perceive: your thick interrogations wherewith you come upon me, as with so many foines and pricks of a sword, to make me yield that youths attired in women's raiment, & dancing a few solemn measures like b Sallust. conjurat. Cai. Sempronia, can not set flax on fire; in show they do brave it, as if no way but one; in deed they draw not so much blood, as a needle would. But be it as be may, for the forcible operation and working of the poison, which neither I affirmed to be altogether so quick in every branch of the minor, concerning your players, as in some alleged for proof of the mayor; nor do you rightly judge of, who acknowledging it to be as poison in the major for bad effects of such plays, would have it treacle in the minor for good effects of yours: the minor of mine argument, as I said, is certain and true in every branch thereof. One alone, amongst all that I specified, you take exception at; which is the Nymphs part. And therein I mistook a circumstance, I grant. How be it I must tell you withal that I mistook it so, and such a circumstance, that the righting of it doth not only not diminish the certainty and truth of my minor, but rather much increaseth it. For when the grave and godly man, whom I spoke of, had showed me his mislike of amorousness and drunkenness expressed in your plays; and namely, for the former, had noted the mischief of the representing those pangs so effectually by the Nymph, a new part inserted into Seneca: I not being farther inquisitive thereof, did think that you supposing the person of a bawd was not set forth lively and skilfully enough by Seneca in Phaedra's Nurse, had brought in a Nymph to persuade Hippolytus that which the Nurse could not; and thereupon I mentioned the Nurses and the Nymphs bawdry. Now, by your publishing of that which you inserted, I perceive you added a new bawd in deed, but a man bawd, Pandarus; and gave the Nymph an other part almost as shameful: so that, I confess, I was, through some negligence, doubly overseen; first, in naming Titius, or rather Titia, for Seius; again, in imagining one naughty part added by you unto Seneca, whereas you added two. For, whatsoever you say of your Nymphs wooing and proffer to Hippolytus: S. c De Abrah. patr. lib. 1. cap. ult. Ambrose, on the d Gen. 24. 51 Scripture touching Rebeccas' spousals, saith that a woman should give unto her parents the choice of her husband, 1 Ne appetentiae procatioris aestimetur author. lest she be reputed too malapert and wanton, if she take upon her to make her own choice: 2 Expetita enim magis debet videri●… à viro, quàm ipsa virum expetisse. for she must rather seem to be desired by a man, then to desire a man herself. And you should have noted, that e Epist. de colloquioru util. ad lectorem. Erasmus words, alleged by yourself to justify the nymphs action, are, Si res honesta est matrimonium, & procum agere honestum est. Procum agere, he saith, of the masculine gender; not of the feminine, Procam. A thing, from allowing whereof he was so far; much more from terming them tetrica ingenia & ab omnibus Gratiis aliena, who do disallow it; though you, not contented to adjoin this also, enlarge it with comparison of your speech to Momus; as if Erasmus likewise blamed us for 3 Quibus impudicum videtur quicquid amicu●… est ac festirun. accounting all matters touching love, and pleasant mirth, unchaste, jump as yourself do for 4 Qui turpe, laetum, ludicrum, petulans vocat. calling that unhonest and wanton, which is merry and light: but Erasmus was so far from allowing a maid to be a wooer, or wooesse, what shall I name it? that in express words f Christiani matrimon. institut. he disalloweth it as 5 Turpe non est juvenibus ambire sponsam, quod vir ginibus sit indecorum. unseemly. By the judgement therefore of your own witness it was a misbehaviour in Nais to be wooing. What? And was it not a misbehaviour also in her to be railing? to say unto Hippolytus, that his mother was a 6 Hirta duro caucasi tigris jugo. tiger, his father was a 7 Aliquis taurus indomitus. bull, himself a 8 superb, dure, crudelis. Pensabit ista Nemesis, & penset precor. Aspicrat altum barbari fastum viri. Vlciscere Dia: pessimo leto occubet. proud, a cruel, a barbarous savage man? to ban him? to curse him? to wish him the most horrible kind of death that might be? and all because he would not leave his lawful liberty to satisfy her lust? Or would your Erasmus have reproved me as 9 Quid facias istis ingeniis tetricis, & ab omnibus gratiis alienis? rigorous, to say no more, for blaming this in a maiden; and himself have liked it, g Christ. matrim institut. who misliked in men that they feign and spread lewd reports of such as yield not to their wooing? Truly, for mine own part, albeit Nais had not transgressed any duty with so fowl language, and might without impeachment of maidenly modesty, have sued to be Hippolytus bedfellow: yet should I have thought it a thing unbeseeming a youth of tender years to be enured, and taught, how he may by amorous speeches, looks, and gestures, woo for a husband, or a wife. But seeing she did that which can not be cleared of wantonness and scurrility: my minor (notwithstanding the circumstance I mistook) is most true and certame for the branch concerning her. Yea, it is as certain and true, with alteration of the name only, even for the very crime too wherewith I charged her in steed of her brother Pandarus: that is to say, for bawdry. Which word why you should censure by terming it the broad name of bawdry, I know not: sith the Latin words, leno, and lena, have none in our English correspondent to them (for aught that I know) but a bawd; and lenocinium, bawdry. How cometh it to pass then that my use of the English name should be faulty: where h Pannic. Senecae assut. you do use the i O blanda vox, turpisque lenonum fide●…. Latin without fault, I trust, and that in the person of modest, chaste, Hippolytus? The truth is that I should have spoken brother, so to term it, and used words of greater eagerness and sharpness. For his practice is bawdry, who enticeth any to single fornication. What is it farther to adultery? What farther yet, to incest? And to do this simply, as incestuous i 2 San. 13. 11. Amnon did, were abominable. What, to do it in such sort, as the 2 Nunc luxus rape; etc. Hippol. act. 2 Nurse in Seneca? but chief as your 3 Amoris expers forma cui prodest nitens? &, Nata fit cervo patri conjux: & utero dama quein peperit, subit. Quanquam feruntur esse quoque gentes, ubi Et nata patri nubit, & nato parens; Et juncta crescit vinculo pietas duplo. Pannic. assut. Sen. act. 2. Pandarus? My speech was too mincing, when I named bawdry. If I had termed it most filthy beastly bawdry, my words had been brother, though not broad enough yet. But to return to mine argument, the mayor and the minor being thus confirmed, the conclusion followeth necessarily, and should have been granted by you in my judgement. So many heads, so many wits: your fancy lead you an other way. And therefore, according to the young Scholars axiom, that always when both the praemisses are true, the conclusion must be denied: You deny that the playing of your tragedies and comedy is to be misliked and censured as unlawful. To the fine persuading whereof you take advantage by somewhat that I said: and the point of my sword, which pierceth through the heart of your defence of plays, you strive (though in vain, for want of strength) to draw out, and turn against myself. For, because I amplified the unlawfulness of the thing by the inconvenience and hurt which it breedeth, principally to the actors, in whom the earnest care of lively representing the lewd demeanour of bad persons doth work a great impression of waxing like unto them; next, to the spectators, whose manners are corrupted by seeing and hearing such matters so expressed: you encounter me herein with two disputes; one, that neither the spectators of your plays, nor the actors, could receve any hurt thereby; an other, that no evil affections could be stirred up thereby, but rather good. Which points it is a world to see how you struggle to prove by shows of reason; and it will not fadge. Besides, were they proved: my conclusion standeth nevertheless entire, because neither of them doth touch a hear of the praemisses. The shows of reason first, whereby you would prove that neither the spectators, nor actors could receive any hurt by your plays, are these; that for your penning you are base and mean, as I see, (so you tell me) and specially for womanly behaviour you were so careless, that when one of your actors should have made curtsy like a woman, he made a leg like a man; and your spectators could not greatly charge your actors with any such diligence in meditation and care to imprint any passions. Of which three assertions the last is already disproved in part by Nais: and yourself, qualifying it with the word greatly, declare that in your conscience your actors might be charged with earnest meditation and care to imprint passions, though not greatly charged. The midst, of one actor forgetting his woman hood, doth no more argue that you were earelesse for womanly behaviour, and for other also, but specially for womanly: then the oversight of a k Philostrat. vit. sophistar. in Polem: Greek stage-player, who, when he said, O God, pointed to the ground; when he said, O earth, cast up his hand to heaven ward, doth argue that the Romans, Roscius, Aesopus, but specially the Greeks', were careless for seemly gesture on the stage. The foremost, like the rest; and worthy to be their ringleader for untruth, or trifling. For neither do I see, that in your penning you are base and mean, if you speak of all, and comprise love-speeches too, as 4 Hippolyte nescis quod fugis vitae bonum: Hippolyte, nescis. Sed uror intus. Libamin●… prima. Rosam primam. Mutua uramur face. O quam juvaret igne tam pulchro mori! & quae sequuntur that of Nais: neither if you were so, is it any proof that you could not hurt; for base and mean writers may utter evil speeches, & l 1. Cor. 15. 33 evil speeches corrupt good manners: and, beside your own, you played Seneca too, whose penning neither m Poetices li. 6. cap. 6. Scaliger, nor n Animadvers. in tragae. Sen. Lipsius, nor o Vlyss. red. prolog. & epilog. yourself, do vilify as base; so that the very style of somewhat, which you played, might work strong impressions by your own verdict. Wherefore when of those three assertions you infer, that neither the spectators, nor actors, could receive any hurt by your plays: you dispute in like sort, as if to control p Nero. ca 38. Suetonius and q Annal. li. 15 Tacitus, who say, that, when Rome was burnt in Nero's time, some did of purpose fire it, one should reason thus: The stuff which those incendiaries did use, was 5 Stupa, taedaque. Sueton. Faces. Tacit. tow and firebrands scarce kindled, as you see: and specially for certain of them, who brought that stuff, they were so careless of setting fire on houses, that 6 Vt raptus licentius exercerent. Tacit. Dio Xiphili. epit. they fell to pillage, carrying things away out of houses unburnt; & such as they rob and spoiled with sword and fire could not greatly charge them with any such diligence in pains and care to burn the city: and so neither the city suffered hurt by them, nor they did any hurt. Strange, that Suetonius and Tacitus should say the contrary. But sometimes good Homer himself will fall a slumbering. Now as you have proved thus, that neither actors nor spectators could receive hurt by your plays: semblably you prove that no evil affections could be stirred up thereby, but rather good. For in Ulysse reduce (say you) who did not love though fidelity of Eumaeus; and Philaetius, towards their master; and hate the contrary in Melanthius? who was not moved to compassion to see Ulysses, a great Lord, driven so hardly, as that he was feign to be a beggar in his own house? who did not wish him well, and all ill to the wooers; and think them worthily slain for their bloody purpose against Telemachus, and other dissolute behaviour, not so much expressed on the stage, as imagined to be done within? And so you go forward with a troop of questions, urging it as certain that all your spectators did admire the constancy of Penelope, and dispraise the lightness and bad nature of Melantho, and think her justly hanged for it; all did praise the patience, wisdom and secrecy of Ulysses, & Telemachus his son; all were glad to see Ulysses restored to his wife; and goods, and his mortal enemies overthrown and punished: again, that in Rivates, all might be delighted to see the fond behaviour of country-wooing, expressed by civil men, or the vanity of a bragging soldier; all might detest drunkenness by seeing the deformity of drunken mariners actions: that in Hippolytus likewise all young men did wish themselves to be as chaste as Hippolytus was; all the spectators detested the love of Phoedra; approved the grave counsel of the Nurse to her in secret; none of them could be the worse for her wooing Hippolytus in so general terms; all did wish that Theseus had not been so credulous; and were sorry for the cruel death of Hippolytus. The most of which things you affirm they did, not meaning to pronounce of their secret thoughts, but that your plays were naturally to work these effects: as appeareth by that in some of the branches you say that the spectators might do so, or so; yea, could not be the worse. And the same appeareth farther, by that you add, that these & such like passions were, or might be moved in your plays, without hurt, at the least, to any man: as in other tragedies, who doth not hate (say you) the fury of Medea; the revenge of Atreus; the treason of Clytaemnestra, and Aegysthus; and the cruelty of Nero? Contrariwise who doth not pity the rage, and death of Hercules; the calamity of Hecuba and her children; the infortunate valour of Oedipus; the murder of Agamemnon; the banishment of Octavia; and such like? You take yourself therefore hereby to have proved that no evil affections could be stirred up by your plays in any: at the least, no evil; and many good perhaps. But why in the particular point touching Hippolytus, in which it most behoved you (because of your new piece of Pandarus and Nais) to show that good affections might be stirred up by his part in all, and no evil in any: Why demanded you, what young man did not wish himself to be as chaste, as Hippolytus was, if he were not so already? Why asked you not generally, as in the rest, who did not? was it because you thought, that some elder men did not wish themselves as chaste, as he was: but were stirred up by Phaedra's pangs, and Pandarus reasons, to wish the like motion had been made to them? Or, that any maidens were upon the stage, who could have been contented to become unchaste in yielding to Hippolytus that which he would not grant to Nais 7 Amore nempe Thesei casto furis? Sen. Hippolyt. chastely? As for the young men of our University who were present at it, I am heartily glad if they were so minded: and do reap myself the greater comfort of it, the more r Oratione d●…odecima. I have commended his example to them. But if they wished so, when they saw your play: it came more of somewhat which they brought thither, than which they found there. For, by your instruction, the death of Hippolytus should have served to teach them, that they must never deny unto a Nais, or Phaedra, such requests: as s Epilog. in Hippoly. Sen. yourself tell them, on speech concerning women; Quas ne quis unquam spernere dehinc audeat, Hippolytus ecce horribile documentum dedit; Impunè temnat nemo terrestres Deas. And what if all, who were present, not the young men only, did admire the constancy of Penelope? Can no evil affection be therefore stirred in any by seeing a boy play so chaste a part? Happy would Lucretia then have thought herself. For she was not inferior in chastity to Penelope: and when Tarquin saw her, he saw 8 N●… s●…a ded●…am lanae inter Incub●…ātes ancillas. ●…ivi ●…b. 1. her employed as a t Prov. 31. 10 most virtuous woman. Yet, for all the wonderment he had of her virtue: he was more inflamed with love of her beauty. Yea, 9 Tarqum●… mala libido Lucretiae pervim stuprandae capit: tum forma, tum spectata castitas incitat. the very sight of her chaste behaviour stirred up his wicked lust. Moreover, if Ulysses begging in his own house, did move all the spectators to have compassion of him, and thereby grew no hurt to them: yet into the actor might there grow some hurt by acquainting himself with hypocritical feigning of v Vlyss. red. act. 1. & 3. lies, x Act. 2. & 3. hunger, beggary, y Act. 2. & sequentibus. wrath, and shedding of blood. As z Plutarc. vit. Ciceronis. Aesopus 1 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. playing the part of Atreus in a tragedy (one of your examples of passions moved, without hurt, at the least, to any man) grew to such a rage by thinking and advising how he might wreak his anger, and be revenged on Thyestes; that with 2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 his Mace royal he struck one of the servants running by, and slew him. And beside this hurt that possibly might grow, there did grow the suffering of such things at Melanthius and Antinous hands, or 3 Vlyssem calce ferit. one of their heels rather, as a 4 At ego infelix neque ridiculus esse, neque plagas pat●… possum. Ter. Eunucho poor wretch in Terence thought too contumelious and base for him to suffer; & a 5 Nisi qui colaphos perpeti potis parasitus, frangique aulas in caput. Plaut. Captiv. Parasite in Plautus counted a piece of his trade. Which reproachful patience if you think, I say not, that all who saw it, praised it (in saying so you blemish your spectators much;) but, that is was no hurt unto your actor of Ulysses, because (as you distinguished on 6 Mamercorun alapas. iwenal's words thereof) he is a poor Scholar: you are not of 7 Faciem contumeliis alaparum sic obijcit, quasi de praecepto Domini ludat. Docet scilicet & Diabolus verberandam maxillam patienter offer. Tert. de spectac. cap. 23. Tertullians', and 8 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Gregor. Naz. orat. in laud. Basilii Magni. Nazianzenes mind, who note it for a stain in 9 Scenici. Tert. ibid. cap. 22. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Grego. Naz. what soever players, even in rascal Heathens; how much more would they, if not in Scholars, yet in Christians, whom Saint Paul exhorteth to a Phil. 4. 9 do only those things which b vers●… 8. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. adorn & set them out with coomly gravity? Now, if some might be the worse for beholding or playing of the best parts, the parts of Ulysses, and Penelope: what harm might they receive by the parts of the Wooers; of Melanthius, of Melantho, of a bragging soldier, of the drunken mariners, of the Nurse, of Phoedra? In some of which number your general propositions, that all the spectators must needs be moved thus or thus thereby, are untrue. In the rest, nay, in these too, manifest is the weakness of your particular conclusions, that because good thoughts might be stirred up in all the spectators by this or that part, therefore those parts could hurt no man. Besides, if by those parts no hurt could come to any, yet might there much by other which here you mention not: and so you come short of your conclusion general, that no hurt could come to any by the passions that were moved in your plays. Your general propositions do fail in the women: of whom you speak in such sort, that as c 1. Tim. 1. 1●…. some by putting away a good conscience, made shipwreck of their faith: so it may be feared that you, by putting truth and singleness away, will hazard the shipwreck of common sense and reason. For when married women do commit adultery, all are not displeased with their lightness and bad nature, nor think them worthy of death for it. David had an other opinion of Bathseba, in the d 2. San. 11. 27 sacred story; the fool in the e Prov. 7. 22. Proverbes, of the strange woman; the Trojans, in f Vly. red prolog. & epilo. your Homer's, g Iliad. lib. 3. Ilias, of Helena: and in his h Odyss. lib. 8. Odyssea, the supposed Gods, that is to say, great persons, specially Mercury, thought otherwise of Venus. How can it be then, that all should not only dispraise the bad nature and lightness of Melantho, an unmarried harlot, but also account her justly hanged for it? whom it is more likely that some would have stepped forth to beg from the gallows, at least the loving wooer, who had said unto her; 1 Pulcherrim●… Melantho. O most fair Melantho, 2 Dulcis Melantho. Vlyss. red. act 3. O sweet Melantho; if he had thought that she should have been hanged in earnest. Like probability hath it, that all would approve the Nurse's grave counsel given to Phoedra in secret: when the counsel given openly to men, by the i 2. Kin. 17. 13 Prophets, by the k Act. 2. 40. & 13. 50. & 17. 30. Apostles, yea, by l Matt. 23. 37. Christ himself, wherewith this 3 So players are termed in Greek writers commonly; sometime in Latin also. And perhaps dissemblers in faith & religion had that name by a metaphor drawn from the stage: as if they were playing other men's persons. hypocrites counsel deserveth not for gravity to be named the same day, was not approved by all. As for that concerning Phoedra you demand; who could be the worse for her wooing Hippolytus in so general terms: ask m Ael Spar●…in Ant. Ca●…callo. Caracallus the Emperor; in whose sight when his stepmother julia, being mad with the same love to himward, that Phoedra to Hippolytus, did uncover and make bare, as it were through negligence, the most of her body, his heart conceived fire strait, 4 Vellem, si lic●…et. his tongue disclosed it; and by her wooing of him Si libet, licet. An nescis ●…e imperatorem ●…se; & leges dare, non accipere? in more general terms, than Phoedra wooed Hippolytus, his consent was won to her incestuous lust. But of all absurd speeches in this matter, that may bear the bell, that having asked who could be the worse for her wooing Hippolytus in so general terms, you infer thereon: The drift whereof if it had been to procure an honest honourable marriage, as it was covertly to allure him to incest, he might very well have listened to it. As if one of them, unto whom n Prov. 1. 14. Solomon attributeth this speech, Cast in thy lot among us, we will all have one purse, should say that none could be the worse for his enticing in so general terms: the drift whereof if it had been to draw men to lawful war against enemies, as it was to unlawful spoiling of the innocent, they might very well have listened to it. Your particular conclusions do fail both in the women (for a surplusage of your former default concerning them) & in the men also. For although Melanthos lightness and bad nature had been dispraised by all: yet some might be corrupted by Melanthos looseness and 6 Domina Penelope sibi Dum nescio quam gloriam captat leven, Quot illa noctes perdidit flendo bonas? Momenta pulchri corporis spolium auferunt, Fragilisque res est forma: dum licet, utere, & Arce quum Dana●… procos Arceret alta, quum fores clausae undique In imbre venit jupiter tanden aureo, Praedam que victor abstulit: nulla aureo Resistet imbri: ferreas aurum trabes, Nedum puellas frangit ac sternit solo bad lascivious talk, unless Saint o 1. Cor. 15. 33 Paul erred. And the grave counsel given unto Phoedra by the Nurse in secret, might hurt unwary lovely youths, as doth a scorpion, with the 7 Contemn famam: fama vix vero favet, Pejus me renti melior, & pejor bono rail thereof. And Phoedras' general terms might be as p 2. Sam. 20. 9 joabs right hand, wherewith he took Amasa by the beard to kiss him: when her special drift being no more covered than joabs sword was, might in the mean season wound Amasa to death, and shed his bowels to the ground. The same is apparent in the scurrility of Melanthius, the lewd or fond tricks of the wooers, the vanity of the bragging soldier, the beastliness of the drunken mariners. For q Politicor. lib. 7. cap. vlt. Aristotle wishing a law to be made in all well ordered cities, that 8 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he saith, meaning such speeches (used to be expressed in that kind of verse) as there are a number uttered by Antinous, Eruymachus, with the like, in your Ulysses redux, and commonly in all tragedies. Aristot. de poet. young men should neither see tragedy played, nor Comedy, until in riper years they be passed danger of being hurt thereby, groundeth his advice on reason and experience; because things which young men receive, do stick fast by them: and therefore sith principal care ought to be taken that they may prove virtuous, 9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. they should be kept from hearing any ill speeches, and seeing any ill deeds; chiefly such deeds and speeches, as are lewd or hateful. So that, where you tell us in defence of the spectacle of your drunken mariners, that it was not possible that any man should be provoked to drunkenness thereby: albeit this were true, whereof yet I doubt, or rather I doubt not, considering that many are overprone to follow any vice or evil, which they see or hear, as an r Syr. Thomas Eliot in the Governor, lib. 1. cap. 4. & 6. autour praised by yourself observeth out of daily experience in children swearing great oaths, and speaking lascivious and unclean words by such example of other; but if it were true, there might nevertheless a dew of that poison, which Aristotle mentioneth, infect some tender buds, and annoy their fruit by the drunken songs, by the drunken speeches, by the drunken gestures of those drunken beasts. The greater is your fault, who say, the Lacedæmonians are commended for causing their slaves, being drunk in deed, to be brought before their children, that they seeing the beastly usage of such men, might the more loath that vice: but you much better expressing the same intent, not with drunken, but with sober men, counterfeiting such unseemly manners, are the less therefore to be reprehended. Wherein how overthwarthly you affirm yourselves to have done much better than the Lacedæmonians, whose fact is commended; and yet conclude that you are the less therefore to be reprehended, as if your conscience told you that either your fact is not like to theirs, or hath some notable difference whereby it is made worse and worthy of reproof, though of the less reproof, the liker it is to theirs in part: we shall the more easily perceive, if we consider how the commender of it (why signified you not his name, or place?) Plutarch, s Antiq. Lacedaemon●…or. institut. doth likewise by and by thereupon commend them for that 1 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. they neither heard Comedy nor Tragedy, lest they should in earnest, or jest, lend ear to those who gain said the laws. For hereby I gather, that they did not purposely make their slaves drunken; against t Xenophon. de repub. Lacedaem. their laws had that been: but 2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Pl●…tar. saith, and not, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. when the slaves were drunk, they turned the example to their children's benefit, that, by seeing swine wallowing in the mire of vomit, and so forth, they might detest drunkenness. As with us when thieves are hanged, or hoores carted, we show them to our children, to breed a detestation of theft and hoordome in them. Whereupon if Seius should say, it were much better that true men should feign themselves to be thieves, display some thievish prank of theirs upon a stage, and seem to be hanged for it; or that chaste maidens and young men should sergeant the misdemeanour of hoores & knaves, and openly representing the filthy act of their uncleanness, be taken in it, and put to shame: yourself, I am persuaded, would judge his better to be worse; at least in the latter point of knaves and hoores, because the shame, that lighteth on them after the fact done, may profit the beholders; but the doing of it, and of things tending to it, hath turpitude that may corrupt them. Which censure if you will apply to your fact compared with the example of the Lacedæmonians, you may see their drunken slaves do little help to justify your mariners: because the 3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. rotten or stinking talk (as v Ephe. 4. 29. Scripture termeth it) which your mariners used before and at their quaffing, would not have been suffered among the Lacedæmonians to be song or said in their children's hearing, no not by enterlude-players. Neither have you greater reason to commend and extol the worthy playfelowes of your mariners by Cato's name and credit, in that you ask; What Cato might not be delighted to see the fond behaviour of Country-wooing expressed by civil men, or the vanity of a bragging soldier? For Cato, not the younger, whose Stoical austerity x Orat pro Muraen. Tully findeth fault with, but whom without such note y De senect. he praiseth, the elder, z Plutar. vita Caton. majo●…s. did put out of the number of Senators one Manilius, because in the day time he had kissed his wife in his daughter's sight: & himself took no less heed of speaking filthy words in his sons presence, than he would have done in presence of the Vestal virgins; nor ever would enter into the bathe with him, lest his son should see him naked. And can you think that any of this man's disposition, what delight soever himself might have taken in that which could not taint his gravity and constancy, would have been delighted, delighted? nay, contented to behold the filth of your country-wooers in the mouths & actions of Scholars like his son, before so great a company both of sons and daughters; in whose 4 Nil dictu s●…dum visuque haec li●…nina ●…angat Intr●… quae puer est. ears, & eyes, a a Iuven●…l. sat. 14. Poet, no way comparable with Cato for severity and care of virtuous nurturing & training up of youth, detesteth the expressing of any one such foolery, as your country-wooers did express a number? As for the vanity of your bragging soldier, I marvel that intending to prove there could no evil affection be stirred up thereby in any, you durst mention Cato: when I had showed that b In prolog. Capwor. Plautus, a far loser person, and better experienced in matters of this kind, doth note that 5 Profectò expediet fabulae huic operam dare. Hic neque pe●…iurus leno est, nec meretrix mala, Neque miles gloriosus. men's manners are wont to be corrupted and made worse by plays which have a bawd, or boor, or bragging soldier in them. The dissolute behaviour of your courtly-wooers, you say, was not so much expressed on the stage, as imagined to be done within. Not so much on the stage: much on the stage therefore; and in deed too much. Yet this would prove, I grant, that small harm could be done by the playing of their parts, unless that were true which the Scripture saith: c lamb. 3. 5. How great a pile of wood how little fire kindleth? Melanthius alone of all the sorts, or varlets, whom you namely specify, hath no amplification of Lacedæmonians, or Cato; no extenuation of not so much on the stage, to grace the ungraciousness of his fowl scurrility. The likelier is Aristotle's sentence and authority to prevail with you, that young men might be stained by hearing of his railing, his 6 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 such as these are; Eumoee impudens, Quo gurgitem hunc tristemque mensarú omniú vo●…aginem ipsam ducis, & verè infimum Barathrum macelli? liminibus humeros sibi Detrivit iste pluribus; quadram aptior. Purgare lingua, quàm quatere iaculum manu. etc. Vlyss r●…d act. 2. jambicall speeches, as Aristotle termeth them. At least Sir Thomas Eliots' d In the Governor lib. 1. cap. 27. words of playing at football, that therein is nothing but beastly fury, & extreme violence, whereof proceedeth hurt, and consequently rancour & malice do remain with them that be wounded, may move you to think that there was danger of annoying our youth by Melanthius action, 7 Vlysse●… calce 〈◊〉. striking and girding (like Silenus' 8 Calce ●…eritur aselh. Ovid Faster. lib. 〈◊〉. ass) at Ulysses with his heel. For boys affecting footebale, will argue peradventure, that seeing such horseplay was used by Melanthius, & he might strike Ulysses' body with his foot; more lawful should it be for them to strike a ball so: and what Cato would not be delighted to see them break one an others shins? or who was that vicechancellour, what a convocation, that made our University statute to the contrary? Thus are your particular conclusions overthrown, even by those passions which the parties mentioned might imprint in others. How much more in themselves? Whose minds in what danger they are of infection, by meditating and studying sundry days, or weeks, how to express the manners of wantoness, or drunkards, or country-wooers lively, the seeing whereof played but an hour, or two, might taint the spectators: I wish with all my heart, that I may rather seem in vain to have feared, than they should by experience feel. Your conclusion general faileth more and more yet, because evil affections might be stirred up by other parts then these: as namely, by your new parts of Pandarus and Nais. The former, after a sort confessed by yourself, in that you demand; who could be the worse for Phoedras wooing Hippolytus in so general terms? For this doth insinuate that through Pandarus wooing him i●… special terms, so special, that incestuous 9 Fit equo sua filia coniux, Quasque cre●…it, init pecudes caper. &, Gentes tamen esse fe●…ntur, in qui bus & nato genitrix, & ●…ata parenti jungitur; ut pietas geminato crescat amore. Myrrah went no farther (as e Metamorph. lib. 10. Ovid thought fit to describe it) not in her secret 1 Et secum, Quò mente feror? quid molior? inquit. etc. thoughts, some might be the worse. The later, most evident by that which is f Lucian. quo modo hist. scribend. sit. recorded to have come to pass in the Citi●… of Abdêra. Where, when at midsummer, in very hottweather, Andromeda (a Tragedy of Euripides) being played, many brought home a burning ague from the theatre: about the seventh day following, they were rid thereof, some by much bleeding, some by sweeting, but all, as soon as they were abroad out of their beds, did fall into a strange distemper and passion of a light frenzy. The which exciting them to say & cry aloud such things as were sticking freshly in their memory, and had affected most their mind, 2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. they grew all to Tragedie-playing, and full lustily they sounded out 3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. jambicall speeches: their tongues harping chiefly on Euripides, Andromeda, and the 4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. melodious words of Perseus touching love. So that the whole city was full of pale and thin folk, pronouncing like stage-players, and braying with a loud voice. 5 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. But O Cupido, prince of Gods and men, with the rest of that part: until at length the winter and cold, waxing great, assuaged their distemper, and eased them of their frantic folly. A word to a wise man is enough. That speech, But O Cupido, Prince of Gods and men, uttered under Perseus, that is, a man's person, was of all likely hood less piercing and pathetical, then yours, O quàm iuvaret igne tam pulchro mori, uttered by Nais, a woman, and a Nymph. It was well that she played in winter, not in summer. For g Herodo●…. Polymn. Ovid. Metamorph. li. 4. Perseus loved Andromeda in the way of marriage too, as Nais did Hippolytus. But the force of love-pangs, and the care of lawfulness, join not their dwelling houses together still in all hearts. Wherefore you are so far off from having proved that no evil affection could be stirred up in any by your plays: that I can hardly remember any evil affection, which might not be stirred up thereby in many; not only in the actors, but the spectators also. And I think yourself, if you peruse advisedly this which I have written, and diligently compare it with your Ulysses redux, Rivales, and Hippolytus, will take time of respitt before you name as much as one inordinate passion; whereto I shall not quote, at least one players part, perhaps two, or three, that may be as oil unto the fire. Howbeit, had you proved the contrary hereof, yet is my conclusion entire, as I said, and your plays unlawful: because it is unlawful to imitate and resemble any misbehaviour; and yourself can not deny but sundry lewdnesses were imitated and resembled in each of your plays. Herein is that confuted withal by the way, which otherwhere you mention as an intent sufficient to justify & warrant your coming on the stage: namely that you do it to practise your style, either in prose or verse; to be well acquainted with Seneca, or Plautus; honestly to embolden your youth; to try their voices, & confirm their memories, to frame their speech; to conform them to convenient action; to try what metal is in every one, and of what disposition they are. For although you aimed at all these things, and hit them, which as I have showed in one branch to be false, so must you grant it in some other; unless you will say, that to arm a youth with a h I●…. 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉. whores forehead, is honestly to embolden him; or, by trying what metta●… is in every one, you mean the occasioning of them to give proof whether their i Esai. 48. 4. brows be made of brass; but admitting all were even as you pretend: yet your stageplaying being convicted of unlawfulness, your pretences for it are grinded all to powder; k Rom. 3. 8. just is their damnation, who say, Let us do evil that good may come thereof. Our great and first parents, l Gen. 3. 5. seduced by the serpent, did eat of the fruit of the forbidden tree: to the intent that they might become like to God, and know both good and evil. The m Heb. 5. 14. knowledge of good and evil, is to be wished: but because the n Gen. 2. 17. means was joined with disobedience, it had been better for them to have lacked that knowledge. Among the Lacedæmonians, o Xenoph. de rep. Lacedaemon. boys by their public order were instructed, and through want of vittalls were provoked to steal meat: that being occasioned thereby to watch at night, while others were sleeping, and to lie in wait by day time for their prey, they might be the skilfuller to circumvent & spoil their enemies in war. The end good and commendable, as he who p 2. Sam. 22. 35. Psal. 144. 1. taught David to fight, assureth us: but q Deut. 5. 19 1 Sam. 25. 7 David was not taught it by pilfering and stealing. Parmeno in r Eunuch. act. 5. scen. 4. Terence telleth what commodity Chaerea might purchase by coming into Thais ho●…se: to be acquainted with the nature and manners of harlots, that knowing them betime he might for ever hate them. To hate them, is a quality s Psal. 13●…. 21. beseeming virtuous persons: but who so by acquaintance with them do seek to hate them, are likely to be evil qualified; for t Prou. 6. 28. can a man go upon coals, and his feet not be burnt? But here you will reply percase that in Chaerea, beside the good effect which Parmeno did boast of, some bad effects might fall out, v Act. 3. scen. 5 through the seeing of jupiters' picture with Danaë, and being near to Pamphila: which in your plays can not be feared. But I have prevented this reply by showing that 6 Arce quum Danaë procos Ar●…eret ●…lta, etc. Vlyss. red. act. 3. your Danae's picture with Melanthos talk may breed some bad effects in a Chaerea too, though he were a beholder only of your plays, much more if he be a player himself. Wherefore if a dead fly doth cause the sweet ointment of the Apothecary to stink, as the x Eccles. 10. 1. wise man saith: what a loathsome savour must needs so great store of such caraine breed in the perfume of eloquence, into the which you cast it? Beside that, to come nearer you, the ointment and perfume itself commended by you, hath a rammish smell, and stinketh like a goat: as a good Apothecary, and of very quick sent, 7 Quinuliane vagae moderator sum inventae, gloria Romanae Quintiliane togae. Mart. lib. 2. epigram. 90. Quintilian, I mean, acknowledgeth and avoucheth. For he, y Orator. in●…titut. lib. 1. ca 14. requiring 8 In primis. chiefly that young and tender minds 9 non modòqu●… diserta, sed vel magis qu●… honesta sunt, discant. should not only learn such things as are well uttered, but, & that much rather, such things as are honest; forbiddeth them to read at all any poëmes of 1 Vtique, qu●… ama●…. amatory fancies, at least, 2 Ad firmius aetatis robu●… reseruentur. till they be grown to greater maturity of years, and strength of age. In which sort he alloweth them to read Menander's Comedies also, and others, 3 Quum mores in tuto fuerint. Vide li. 2. cap. 2. When they be passed danger of having their manners corrupted. And their z Lib 2. cap. 1 & 4. &. 11. style he willeth to be exercised in common places, either against vices, or touching doubtful questions; in praising good, dispraising evil: in reporting truth; in defence of innocency; and the like matters that may serve an 4 Orator, vir. bonus. Lib. 1 in proaem. & lib. 12. cap. 1 honest man in use of life. Their a Lib 2. ca 8. memory he wisheth to be confirmed by learning without book, sometime somewhat of their own, well penned; but principally, places elected and chosen out of orations, or stories, or other kind of 5 Dignorum ea cura voluminum. writings worthy that care and study; that they 6 Assuescent optimis. may accustom themselves to the best, and have their style helped many ways thereby. Finally, for b Lib. 1. ca 19 framing of speech, voice, and gesture, he would not have them imitate the voice of Women, or old men; nor express the faults of drunkenness; nor be taught to play the slaves; nor learn the affection and passion of love, of covetousness, of fear. Which things are neither necessary, saith he, 7 Oratori. for an orator; and 8 Mentem, praecipuè in aetate prima teneram adhuc & rudem inficiunt. they do corrupt the mind, in childhood specially, while it is tender yet and unacquainted with things; because 9 Frequens imitatio transis in mores. such as those are whom we imitate much, such ourselves become. Behold the great difference between a heathen man's conceit of the instructing of orators for civil causes: & yours, of Christian Preachers, or what soever place your Students shall be called to in Church or Common weal, at least of honest men and Christians. He would have no amatory poëmes, neither Comedies, no not c Lib. 10. ca 1. Menander's, that is, the 1 Omnibus ●…iusdem operis autoribus abstulit nomen. best of all to be read by his youth: you, as if Phaedra's amorous speech expressed by Seneca were nothing without a pe●…ce of menstruous cloth sowed to it, do occasion yours to make themselves familiar and well acquainted with Plautus, d Horat. de art. poet. vives lib. 3. de tratend. discipline Scalig. poetic. lib. 6. cap. 3. one far beneath the best. He would have his youth to practise their style in good things, as in 2 Arma sunt hac quodammo do praeparanda semper, ut his, quum res poscet, utaris. weapons, which they may use when need shall be: you practise yours in speeches enticing men to venery, to ribauderie, to scurrility, to hoordom, to incest, to other abominations. He would have his youth to commit most excellent things and words to memory; you pester yours with filth, such filth in Rivales (I am ashamed to rehearse it) as can not be matched, I think, sure very hardly, throughout all Plautus. He would not have his youth 3 Femineae voc●…s exilitate frangi. to counterfeit a woman's voice: you procur●… Minerva, Penelope, Euryclea, Antonoë, Eurynome, Hippodamia, Melantho, Phaedra, the Nurse, the Nymph, beside I know not whom in the vnprinted Comedy, to be played by yours. He would 4 Nec vitia ●…brietatis effingat. not have his youth to represent the faults of drunkenness: yours must flaunt it out in most unmodest guise, with unseemly barbarous carousing songs and speeches, and be defended too by the brave example of Lacedaemonian slaves. He would 5 Nec seruili vernilitate imbuatur. not have his youth to be imbrued and tainted with slavish behaviour: for yours it is an ornament to play the goteheard Melanthius, or a bragging soldier, or a clownish wooer. In fine, he would 6 Nec amoris discat affectum. not have his youth to learn the passion of amorousness and love; 7 Plu●…imum aberit à scenico gestu. nor to be stage-player-like in action and gesture: you breed yours in stageplaying, as conforming them to convenient action; and teach them to resemble the pangs of love in manner of most amorous Nymphs, with 8 O quàm iu●…aret igne tam pulchro mori. burning exclamations, and 9 Tu nostris, precor, Nym phas amare ●…e puta in syluis nefas. Aurora Cephalo, Salmacis puero suo, Adonide venus Latmio iuvene & tua, Hippolyte, quondam exarsit 〈◊〉 arcitenens Dea. In tam beato, quaeso ●…umeremur grege. fancies of Poëticall fables. St e Confession. lib. 1. cap. 16 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Austin reproving the course of the world which traineth up their children in Poets wanton tales of jupiters' adulteries, and useth to defend their custom by saying, Hence are words learned, hence is eloquence gotten: forsooth, saith he, belike we could not know these words, imbrem aureum, and gremium, and fucum, and templa caeli, and the rest there written, unless f Terence had brought in a lewd young man proposing jupiter to himself for an example of whoredom, while he beholdeth on the wall a certain painted table, wherein was this picture; how jupiter sent a 1 Imbrem ●…reum. golden shower, they say, of old time into the 2 Gremium. lap of Danaë, 3 Fucum. under the colour thereof to beguile a woman. And see how he stirreth up himself to lust as it were by the instruction of a heavenly master. But what God? saith he. Even that God which shaketh 4 Templa 〈◊〉 the sanctuaries of heaven with thunder. Should not I, who am a mortal wretch, do the same? Yes in deed I did it, and gladly. 5 Non omnin●… per hanc turpitudinem verba ista commodius discuntur; sed per haec verba turpitudo ista confidentius perpetratur No, no, saith S. Austin, those words are not learned the more conveniently by means of this dishonesty: but this dishonesty is wrought the more confidently by means of those words. Thus did that discreet and godly Father judge of causing such devises of Poets to be learned by children yea although the Poets were as good as Terence and the children as well inclined as himself. For himself it is, of whom g Aug. confess. lib. 1. cap. 15 he confesseth that 6 Didici in 〈◊〉 multa verba utilia: sed & quae in 〈◊〉 non vanis disci possunt; & ea via 〈◊〉 est in qua pu●…ri ambularent. he learned many profitable words in vain, Poëticall fancies; but such as both may be learned in things not vain, & that is a safe way wherein children ought to walk. On which consideration sundry men of note in our memory also, not only among professors of purer religion, but even among the Papists, have advised Schoolmasters & instructors of youth either not to read Terence to their Scholars, or if they will read him, not to read him all. h De tradend. discipline. li. 3. Ludovicus Uives, having declared in general out of i 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Plutarch touching the reading of Poets, that, unless you use it most warily, it hurteth; and therefore, if a child may be allowed to meddle with it, their writings would be purged first, & filthy matters be wholly cut out of them: Doth wish the same concerning Terence in special for those things which might defile the minds of children with such faults and vices, as naturally we are prone to. Ignatius Loiola, a man no worse minded in certain points than were the old jewish k Act. 23. 8. Pharisees, whose l Mark 7. 9 sect in his offspring of jesuits he hath renewed, m Petr. Ma●…. vita Ign. Loi. lib. 3. cap. 8. did forbid Terence to be read in schools (unless he were purged) lest he should more annoy their manners by his wantonness, then by his Latin help their wits. n Epist. ad Augustum Ducem Saxoni●…. Georgius Fabricius, not seeing how he may be well purged to this purpose, because the conditions of fond or bad persons, as of lovers, ●…oores, murmurers, miser's, fretters, ruffians, varlets, flatterers, boasters, bawds, and sycophants, that is, the most of those things which Comedies entreat of, belong to stronger minds, and to an age confirmed and stayed with some judgement, not to unskilful children, before whom they are better omitted and concealed; Fabricius therefore grounding himself upon the judgement of o Politicor. li. 7 cap. v●…t. Aristotle, and p Lib. 1. ca 14 Quintilian, both applied to Terence, resolveth that he is not to be read at all to youths of tender years. Whereunto a light of our university and country, D. Humfrye, subscribeth and agreeth, in that upon occasion of showing how noblemen's children and gentlemen's should be brought up in learning, q Laur. Humfred. de nobilit. lib. 3. he saith that they may have Terence read unto them, but them, when they shall be grown in age and judgement. Though doubting least even then too the 7 Si quid insit obscaeni, fidelis diligentia boni praeceptoris medeatur: & alio●…um librorum l●…ctio, tanquam pharmacum, pellat quicquid 〈◊〉 est toxicum. poison of his filthiness may be more forcible than the counterpoison to be used against it he addeth that he would not grant him this place neither in their education, but that Tully had made good account of him, and profited in eloquence by him. Now the same reasons, that, in choice of authors to be read by us, exclude so fine a Poet, and send us unto purer fountains of good literature: do likewise in the practice of style, the frame of speech, and employment of memory, exclude such points and matters as Terence is excluded for, and commend unto us more commendable arguments to exercise our wits, our tongues, our pens in. Which the wise Founders and Governors of the worthy Colleges and companies of Students here among us did very well consider: taking order therefore that by rendering and rehearsing of Aristotle; or Tully; by writing, pronouncing, declaiming, disputing, of questions in sundry faculties and arts, the use whereof may serve them afterward to purpose, young men should be made the readier and fit to confirm the truth, to confute errors, to dehort from evil things, and instruct to good. Neither doth your subtle matching and comparing of these scholastical exercises with interludes and plays, in as much as you tell me that if I had but said that your plays are toys, unnecessary, vaineit had been no more perhaps then is, in strictness, true, because r L●…k. 10. 4●…. unum modò necessarium; and he, that had tried all things, of his own wise experience pronounceth, s Eccles. 1●…. 8. vanitas vanitatum, & omnia vanitas, yea, even learning, and wisdom, and all things else, except the fear of God which endureth for ever, & you have heard a godly & a learned Preacher in the pulpit affirm, that our declamations, oppositions, suppositions, and such scholastical exercises, are no better then vain things: but these three authorities, wherein you saw not strength sufficient to persuade you that your plays are certainly unnecessary and vain, (your speech concerning them you lay in water with perhaps;) do not convince in deed our disputations, declamations, with the like exercises, to be so. For when our Saviour said that 8 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. one thing is needful, speaking of t Luk. 10. ver. 42. the good part which Marie had chosen in that v ver. 39 she heard 9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. his preaching, the word of God preached by him: he did not by commending the needfulness of the end, condemn the means, as needless, whereby the end is attained to. Nay, he did imply rather that the means are consequently needful: as if a natural man should say, We must live, his meaning were that we must have sustenance to live by. And how shall men x Rom. 10. 1●… hear the word of GOD preached, unless there be Preachers to expound it? How can Preachers expound it, unless they learn the way of y 2. Tim 2. 15 cutting it aright and applying it? How can they learn the way ordinarily: unless they be trained up in Logic and Rhetoric? The necessary use whereof for the sound interpreting of Scripture, it may be that you heard z Praelectioni. in epist. ad Coloss. cap. 〈◊〉 ver. 8. me show against the Brownists, as well as you heard the Preacher whom you speak of: or if you did not, Saint a De doctr. Christ. lib. 2. cap. 31. & seq●…entibus. Austin, or b De rat. stud. theolog. lib. 1. cap. 4. Hyperius, may serve to inform you. The a●…tes then of Rhetoric & Logic are requisite to preaching of the word. And the exercises of declaiming, answering, opposing, do help to breed ripeness in those arts. Our Saviour's sentence therefore that one thing is needful, argueth not these exercises to be unnecessary. No more doth Salamons' saying that all things are vanity, prove them to be vain. For out of 1 Heb. HACCOL with HE (an article as it were) expressed & expounded by Tremellius & junius, Eccl. 1. 2. & 12. 10 those all things himself doth except, the c Eccle. 12. 13 fear of God (as you note) and (as you should have noted) the keeping of God's commandments. Wherefore sith our Students be commanded by God d Luk. 19 13. to employ the pieces of moony that he hath given them, in trade and traffic as it were, to make gai●…e thereof; and the trade, wherein they must employ their time, is, to get themselves all instruments of learning, by which they e Tit. 〈◊〉. 9 may be able to 2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 exhort with wholesome doctrine; and 3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. convince such as gainsay it: their practice of exhortatory and convincing faculties, of declamations, of elenches, of oppositions and suppositions, can not be condemned, as vain, by his word, by whom f Mat. 25. ver. 26. the evil servant is condemned, as g ver. 30. unprofitable, for h ver. 25. hiding his talon in the earth. Well may you have heard a Preacher in the pulpit affirm that which you mention: but I doubt whether you understood him well. For you allege him so, as if he had pronounced those exercises simply, & in themselves, vain: Which it were injurious to think, that a learned and a godli●… Preacher (such do you report him; and I, not knowing who it was, do believe you) should purpose to affirm: feing Christ; i Heb. 7. 27. whose mouth was never defiled with toy or any vain thing, used certain of them, as oppositions namely. For what are k Aristot. Topic. li. 1. & 8. oppositions but arguments objected against a point in question? What was it but an argument objected so by Christ, when against the l Mat. 22. ver. 23. Sadduces, denying the resurrection, m ver. 31. he urged a text of Moses? and against the n ver. 42. Pharisees, holding no more of Christ but that he was David's son, a o ver. 43. testimony of David? Yea, in this later he did that which of all things in our disputations might seem to be most vain, object p ver. 45. against a truth, although with purpose for the truth. It is not to be thought then, that the Preacher, terming our exercises vain, meant that they are such simply and in themselves; but as they are used by us, by many of us, to sundry fruitless ends, not to make us fit for the q ●…ph. 4. 29. good and 4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. need full edifying of men: nor to advance r 1. Tim. 4. 8. godliness profitable for all things, but to increase or make a show of s Eccles. 1. ver. 13. that knowledge, which therefore is called t ver 14. vanity by the wise man, because it hath v ver. 3. no permanent and lasting commodity, x ver. 15. nor bringeth us salvation and eternal life. Whereof it doth no more follow that the exercises are vain, as you conclude; then if one should reason that the fear of God, (which you except) is vain, upon that place of Esay, y Esai. 29. 13. Their f●…are toward me is taught by the precept of men. For, if, notwithstanding that z Mat. 15. 9 the jews worshipped and feared God in vain, fearing him amiss according to the precepts of men, not to his word, yet the fear of God is most beneficial, and a Mal. 3. 1●…. was to some among the jews too: then may declamations, supposititions, oppositions, and such schol●…sticall exercises be profitable & fruitful, even unto some among us also, though many of us make them vanity of vanities, as vain as that b 2. Tim. 2. 14 strife is which Saint Paul reproveth, I mean, both 5 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. void of wholesome juice, & 6 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. full of poison. But to what purpose are these discourses, will you say, of exercises fit for scholars, and Terence not to be read unto them, till they be of riper years & judgement? To let you understand, that whereas you tell us, you come upon the stage to practise your style, to acquaint yourselves with Plautus, to embolden your youth, to try their voices, confirm their memories, frame their speech and action; you are so far from justifying your plays by this defence, that you condemn them more. For if the tale of jupiter with Danaë, in Eunuchus, should not be read to such as your Melantho and Nais: much less should they be taught the same tale 7 Nulla 〈◊〉 ●…esistet imb●…i. urged farther, in Ulysses ●…edux; and less yet another tale of c Ovid Metamorph lib. 4. wanton Salmacis 8 Salmac●… puero suo. with her boy; in Hippolytus. If they should not as much as salute Te●…ence, the finest Comical Poet, for pureness of the Latin tongue in d Limone, apud Dona●…ū in vita Teren●…. Tully's judgement: much less should they be made well acquainted with Plautus; and less yet with Rivales. If they should not be suffered to peruse writings of base & filthy quality, nor to cast their eyes, as it were, upon them: much less should they engrave them by heart in their remembrance, express them with voice, commend them with action, deliver them with boldness. If they should not exercise their style, their speech, their memory, but in honest, virtuous, and commendable matters, which in use of lise may serve them to good purpose: much less should they meditate how they may inflame & tender youth with love; entice him to dalliance, to hoordom, to incest; enure their minds and bodies to uncoomly, dissolute, railing, boasting, knavish, foolish, brainsick, drunken conceits, words, and gestures. Wherefore to the Timothees, that are among your Students, I must say in like sort as Saint Paul to Timothee: e 2. Tim. 〈◊〉. 〈◊〉. Consider what I say; and the Lord give you understanding in all things. Now, the inconveniences and mischiefs of your plays being so notorious and manifold, as I have showed: the rest of mine answer opposed to your reasons devised for their defence, will easily deliver itself from your cavils. For where you having said that your Students did not misspend their time therein, because they spent no more time than useth to be spent in sports, sleep, talk, and learned releasing of the mind from study; and having added thereto that, sith there is a time for sports, plays, danses, and man consisting not of one part alone doth need recreation, therefore you may be stage-players; I answered to the former, that by the like reason a student haunting a dicing house, or tavern, or stews, might prove that he did not misspend his time thereat; to the later, that recreation is necessary for Scholars, yet would it not beseem them to play at stoolball among wenches, nor at Mumchance or Maw with idle lost companions; nor at trunks in Guile-halls, nor to danse about Maypoles, nor to rifle in alehouses, nor to carouse in Taverns, nor to steal Dear, nor to rob Orchyards: you reply that to compare your plays to these things, it exceedeth the compass of any tolerable resemblance; and thereupon eftsoons you surname them hard and incomparable comparisons. Wherein how incomparably you lavish out of measure, and exceed the compass of any reasonable speech, you may quickly see, now that I have proved your plays to be evil: si●…h these things being likewise evil and disorderly, and so agreeing with them in a general point, it is clear they may be resembled thereunto. The Scripture compareth f Mat. 25. 27. our Saviour to an 9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. usurer, who desireth gain by the moony he dareth; g Luk. 16. 8. the children of light to an unjust steward, who maketh himself friends with his masters goods against a time of need, h 1. Thes. 5. 2. the coming of the Lorde●… day to a thief in the night, who cometh suddenly and unlooked for. Comparisons not tolerable, if the special qualities of usurers, of unjust men, of the●…ves, should be meant: but very good and fit, if we mark the general points that they are matched in. Or, if Scripture-eloquence, which yet St i De doctrine. Christ. lib. 4. ●…p. 6. Austin magnifieth, seem base in your eyes; though, seem it never so base, I trust you will not say that to compare our Saviour, and so forth, to these things, it exceedeth the compass of any tolerable resemblance: but the eloquence, the learning, the authority of Homer, whose wit ( k Vlyss red. Prologue. & epilog. you say) 1 Illuminatut & homines simul & Deos. enlightened both men and Gods together, whose 2 Dignetur humilem tanta maiestas tua Induere soccum. majesty you worship with 3 Haurire ●…yathum font●… nos largo sine. prayer and 4 Benignita●… gratias agimus ●…ae. thanksgiving, to 5 Aeterna maneat gl●…ria in terris tibi. whom you wish eternal glory, and call him 6 Nam quis aeterno seni Par esse poterit? the eternal old man, will suffice to open your eyes and stop your mouth. For he compareth l Iliad. lib. 11. m lib. 16. valiant Ajax to an ass, that being in a cornfield will not be driven out with any cudgels of boys till he have filled his belly; the m Grecians and Troyans' about Sarpedons carcase, to flies about a milkpail in a warm spring-time, all busy and loath to leave it. There are n Hieron. vid. & Lud. viv. lib. 3. de tra. discipline. who find fault with these comparisons, I grant, as overbase and abject: but your adoration of Homer doth persuade me, that you will make more of o jul. Scalig. poetic. lib. 5. cap 3. his censure, who, for the general drift thereof, approoveth them. At least you shall be forced to yield by your own words, in as much as having compared our reproof of your expense in plays to p Matt. 26. 〈◊〉 their speech who said of the costly ointment powered upon Christ's head, what needed this waist? and being told the difference of that fact from yours; you say, that though you know there is an infinite difference between yours and the action against the which it was hypocritically first used: yet you think it may also be applied against, either the nigardise, or the hypocrisy of any Momus, that shall condemn all expense as cast away, that is sometimes moderately bestowed upon honest sports and pastimes. For how can it be chosen but to compare your charges on plays to those on Christ, must needs exceed the compass of any tolerable resemblance: unless things agreeing in a general point, as you suppose (though falsely) these to do in honesty, may be very well resembled each to other? And 7 Quis tule●… Gracchoes d●… seditione que rents? juvenal. sat. 〈◊〉. why should you reprove it in me as a hard incomparable deed: when you think it comparable and soft in your own case? Chief, sith you know, that even in the degree of honest matters too, whereon expenses are made, there is an infinite difference between the actions, which you match: I can not say so of those that I compare. Nay, some of the things that I compare your stage-plays with, are less evil; as namely, for scholars to play at stooleball among wenches: which to do by day light, in open streets, in their own likeness, were not so unmeet and inconvenient for them, as to be attired in women's raiment, by women, within doors, in the night time, to go to and fro, and come upon the stage, and play Melantho, or Nais. Contrariwise, the action wherewith you match yours; was infinitely better, as yourself acknowledge: and had, as you must also acknowledge, 8 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, it was esteemed by them, who amplified it to the uttermost. Mark. 14. 5. joh. 12 5. And that may amount to nine or ten pound of our moony. less bestowed thereon, then yours had. So that your consecution doth halt here again; It was no waist to be at lesser cost in working a good work on Christ; Ergo it is no waist to be at greater charges in setting forth of plays. But mine is unreprovable; It beseemeth not scholars to play at stooleball among wenches, though modest and chaste; Therefore it beseemeth them not to play wanton women on the stage. The same may I say of the two comparisons, which herewithal you check; the former, alleged out of Salvianus, or out of Scripture rather; the later, adjoined by me for illustrating and opening the former: to weet, that with the players of lewd and naughty parts it fareth as with ae fool committing wickedness in pastime; and they are like a mad man, who casteth firebrands, arrows, and mortal things, and saith, was I not in sport? For a mad man casting firebrands, and the like, endangereth bodies only: the players of lewd parts do endanger souls. And a fool committing wickedness in pastime hath seldom many admirers and followers to hurt: the players have as many, as a great Theatre holdeth, and can hear them say, But O Cupido, or, O quàm juvaret. Wherefore when you amplify hereupon, and tell me, you could have wished that such comparisons had been forborn, if not for the plays themselves, though also they ought for the plays themselves, being things that savour of some wit, learning, and judgement; yet in respect of the actors, your whole house, the spectators, approovers, authors, writers; all which points you load with pathetical circumstances otherwhere entreated of: you force me to say I could have wished also that you had forborn these Galba-trickes of seeking to prejudice the truth and equity of causes with partial affections and respect of persons, a q Lev. 19 15. Prov. 24. 23 〈◊〉. 2. 1. thing condemned by Scriptire; and that you had considered that if plays savouring of some wit learning, and judgement, ought not to be compared to such things as I mentioned, than yourself did ill in praising and allowing that part of my discourse, wherein the fool and mad man served for comparisons. For you gave testimony thereof, that I had written copiously and truly against the bad effects of stage-plays in general. Yea, specifying the proofs that I made by sundry examples and authorities, among which the authority of Salvianus was, you soothed it as containing a truth, and well handled. But the stage-plays spoken of by Salvianus, did savour of some wit, learning, and judgement: as what play doth nor? at least of all those that any ancient Poet wrote. Your reason therefore brought from the savour of wit learning, and judgement, to cross my comparisons; doth cross your own allowance of that which you acknowledged to be well spoken against the bad effects of stage-plays in general. And thus, as r Apollod●… de o●…g. D●…. or. lib. 3. Lycurgus the Thracian imagining that he was hewing down a vine with his hatchet, is said to have slain his son, and maimed himself: likewise you intending to show that my comparisons are hard and incomparable, and exceed the compass of any tolerable resemblance, and should have been forborn, have wounded unawares your eternal old man, and yourself grievously. A more grievous wound have you given yourself in saying that you presumed your plays to be lawful, when you made your simple assertion (so you term it) that there is a needful time for sports. For this is in effect as much as if you said, that you played the s Aristo. de ●…prehē. Soph. Sophister, 9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. begging the point in question, and taking it as granted. The which kind of dealing, if it had any sinews to grapple with an adversary, the jesuits might trouble us, by saying that the Catholic faith must be kept; and they presume that Popery is the Catholic faith. Likewise the meanest advocate in a court of law might speed all his clients, by saying that such as have wrong offered them, aught to be relieved; and he presumeth his clients have so. Neither had you needed to write so long a reply of twelve leaves to me: twelve words might have sufficed, that you presume my cause is nought, and naughty things must not be credited. But yourself acknowledge that this proveth not the lawfulness of your plays. So that, in affirming you did presume them to be lawful, and calling it a simple assertion which you avowed concerning sports, you speak more truth than you intended. For it is a simple assertion in deed to say that sports are needful, against a man's arguments who saith that stage-plays are unlawful. And he may be justly noted of presumption, who, being unable to prove a thing he fancieth, condemneth them as Momes that are minded otherwise and bring sound proof against it. Howbeit, had you kept yourself within the compass of such oversights, you were more excusable. But it is a greater fault to play the slanderer by falsifying men's words, and fathering upon them an erroneous sentence, which never came into their minds, nor fell out of their mouths or pens. And what do you else, when having said that I use many words against dancing, you reply that you love to see honest dancing; and, you see no cause in reason, charity, or Christian liberty, why dancing should simply be condemned. For hereby you insinuate, or pronounce rather, that I condemned dancing simply, and honest dancing: whereas my words were that danses of Penelope's wooers, of Melantho, of other of her maids, and simply all stage-dansing do savour of dishonesty. Which differeth as much from that you father on me, as the speech of Christ, t joh. 2. 19 Destroy ye this temple, & in three days I will raise it up again, meaning of his body, did differ from that which v Matt. 26. 61 the false witnesses affirmed him to have said of the temple of God, x Mar. 14. 58. the temple made with hands. Nay, it surpasseth that of the false witnesses: it differeth as much as if, where Christ said, that y Luk. 13. 3. & 21. 18. all ungodly men shall perish, they had fathered on him that all men shall perish. And your crime herein is the more blamewoorthy, because I had so plainly excepted certain dancing, that you can not seem to have mistaken my words, and read all dancing, for all stage-dansing; but wilfully and advisedly to have misreported me. For I said expressly, I meant those danses that I specified, and not z 2. Sam. 6. 14 David's dancing, which St a Depoeniten. lib. 2. cap. 6. Ambrose doth well distinguish from them. Now St Ambrose saith that David's religious and godly dancing is decent: but 1 Saltationis lubricae histrionici motus. the dangerous dancing practised by players, and the 2 Scenae deliramenta. foolish toys, the dotages, of the stage; 3 Haec etiam in adolescentula aetate vi●…osa sunt. are faulty even in youth too. So both mine own words, and the autour I cited, do manifestly show, that when you took upon you to praise honest dancing, and said you saw no cause in charity or reason why dancing should simply be condemned, you could not but in reason and charity see cause, why you should have dealt more simply and honestly, then so calumniouslie to raise a false surmise of me. You know what creature it is, whom the b Rev. 12. 9 scripture nameth a 4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 calumniatour. Beside, as you offend in charging me with that I said not: so in going about to overthrow that which I said. For whereas I affirmed that dancing of Penelope's wooers with her maids, and simply all stage-dansing, is disallowed by the light of nature; and for proof thereof did allege the testimonies, of Romans put by Nero, of Philistines putting Samson to it, and of all ancient 6 Pastorem saltaret uti Cyclopa, rogabat: Nil illi larva, aut tragicis opus esse cothurnis. laws in a manner, yea of reason itself, as Arias Montanus noteth: you, avouching two men's opinions to the contrary, do add, that to apply, either the dancing of those noble Romans, whom Nero enforced to danse so publicly; or, Samsons dancing among the Philistines; or, the note of Arias Montanus, against your dancing only of two sober measures, is a comparison without all measure. Wherein first, through negligence of marking my words, or desire of crossing them before you understood them, you misreport my drift: and say that I applied those things against your dancing only of two sober measures, (you mean, the wooers dancing with the maids,) which I applied not against it alone, but against the rest of your stage-dansing also, that is, all your stageplaying. For this did I betoken by the name of stage-dansing, the better to express the sentence, that I had in hand, of Saint Ambrose, who by 5 Saltationis lubricae histrionicos motus & scenae deliramenta. dancing noteth all histrionical motions and playings on the stage, in like sort as c satire. lib. 1. sat. 5. Horace saith, 8 Saltabat Hylas Oedipoden. Pylades: 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. one was requested to danse Polyphemus, meaning to play his part; and 7 Caeruleatus, & nudus, caputque redimitus arundine, & candam trahens, genibus innixus, Glaucum saltavit. Plancus dansed Glaucus, in d Lib 2. Uelleius story; and g stage-players dansed Oedipus, and Hercules, in e Satur. lib. 1. cap. 7. Macrobius; and f Adver. gent. lib. 7. Arnobius speaketh of 9 Si Europa, fi Leda, si Ganymedes fuerit saltatus, aut Danae. compescit motum irarum jupiter? dancing Europa, Leda, Ganymedes. Neither was it hard for you to perceive that I meant thus much, if you had better weighed the branches of my speech, & proofs thereto answering, concluded with the note of Arias Montanus, touching not only dansers, but persons of such shows & spectacles. Chief if you had looked on the autour himself, and marked that in the persons of such shows and spectacles, he compriseth stage-players; as the 1 Hujus generis actiones ingenuo homine indigniffimas duxerunt, qui de virtute vera, deque corruptis hominum moribus prudenter loq●…ti sunt. Vt ille de Nerone: In scena nunquam cantavit Orestes. etc. juu. sat. 8 generality of his words, exemplified by Nero, maketh plain. another injury is it, that you term those proofs of mine, a comparison; and (which is more) a comparison without all measure. What h Matt. 7. 2. measure you did use in the meeting out hereof, I can not guess: unless peradventure, because that you had heard that comparisons are odious, you hoped you should make all my proofs odious by naming them comparisons. For I, having noted, against your argument drawn from sports and recreations, that sports by the light of nature, are accounted unseemly, bad, infamous, and so is all stage-dansing; did allege the judgements of Romans, of Philistines, of ancient laws well nigh all, and of reason itself, as testimonies to prove that proposition by; not as comparisons, but as testimonies And therefore in the note of Arias Montanus, I did omit that he saith of 2 Divina verò lex minimè admittenda censuit, invulgaribus etiam ac vilibus capitibus; & quae sequuntur. the law of God condemning stage-plays likewise, because that might go higher than the light of nature. Otherwise, you may be sure that I, who cited him for men's laws, a thing of weaker proof, would not have omitted the law of GOD, his strongest argument. But if I had joined supernatural light to the light of nature, and had produced testimonies of the Scripture also: would you have replied, that, to allege the Scripture, is a comparison without all measure? You must by like reason. And what should stay you from it? All would have espied that it were no comparison. Why more, than the note of Arias Montanus? which yet, when you had cast my allegation of the Romans and Philistines in such a mould, that it could not appear I brought them in as testimonies; you named with them for company a comparison too. Though, seeing you are grieved with my applying of it against your stage-dansing, and that induced you to call it a comparison: me thinks you should have fastened that odious name rather on the proposition proved by those testimonies. For the proofs reach not you immediately, they fight not nigh at hand: the proposition doth; as being the mayor of that argument, whereof your stage-players make the minor. And the proposition, condemning all stage-dansing, doth give a deadlier wound; neither can it choose but light on your stage-dansing: the proofs might seem to be more easily avoided; or, coming so far off, to raze the skin only. Again, my applying of the proposition to you, by the assumption, would deserve more worthily the name of a comparison: and the assumption being particular, or singular; the proposition universal; were not this applying of all against some, a comparison without all measure? The third injurious part offered me in this point, is, that you allege the judgement of Homer and Sir Thomas Eliot, as making for that dancing, which I did reprove. And bringing in the former of them by a 3 Praeteritio. figure, saying, To omit Homer's judgement thereof; himself you call an excellent observer of decorum in all things, and quote for his judgement i Odyss. 〈◊〉. the eight book of his Odyssea. Now, better had it ben●…●…or you to omit him without a figure in deed: sith he, describing there the life of King Alcinous, and of his people, the Phaeacians, saith, that 4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. they took pleasure continually in feasting, and music, and dancing, and bravery of apparel, and hot baths, and chambering: wherein a lively pattern of a wanton, riotous, voluptuous, Epicures life, being set forth by Homer, as k Epist. lib. 1. ep. 2. Alcinoique In cute curanda plus aequo operata iuventus. Horace, l Dipno sophist. lib. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Athenaeus, m In Odyss. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Eustathius may teach you: if I should not have blamed dancing in your plays, because such an excellent observer of decorum saith the Phoeacians used it; then must the n Phil. 3. 19 belly be your players God, because such an excellent observer of decorum saith the Phoeacians served it. Moreover seeing that the Music which the minstrel gave them to their dancing, was a 5 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 song of Mars taken in adultery with Venus Vulcan's wife; & you commend in dancing the number of the footing well expressing, answering, and as it were acting the measure and meaning of the Music: you see what good instructions you give men by extolling your excellent observer of decorum in all things. Add thereunto that he, so good an observer of decorum, maketh the Phoeacian actors danse with 6 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. others of their own sex, or 7 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. single. Which how much, & why, it is more allowable, than men and women to danse together: I wish you to consider, by weighing, with examples mentioned in o Exo. 15. 20. judge 21. 21. 1. Sam. 18. 6 Scripture, the judgement of p Pet. Mart. in lib. jud. cap. 21. Hyperius de feriis Bacchanalib. Aretius' probl. theolog. tom. 1. loc. 14. Divines thereon. So shall you perceive, that Homer in the eight book of his Odyssea, hath no sufficient warrant for Melantho to danse together with Eurymachus, the maids with the wooers; no not though they were maids and Melantho in deed; much less for boys attired like Melantho, & maids, to danse with men upon a stage. The later of your authors you allege directly; and, that learned Knight Sir Thomas Eliot, say you, among other things that he writeth in a book of his, in the praise of dancing, compareth the man treading the measures, to Fortitude, and the woman on his hand, to Temperance. You add, that you have seen the book, and you remember he useth this comparison in it. But did you not remember the name of the book too? or was it for some special cause that you concealed it? your words might give a man occasion to think, that he had written a book in the praise of dancing: which that he did, I q Baleus scriptorum Britann. centur. 8. cap. 77. find not. I guess you mean therefore his book entitled the Governor. Wherein r Lib. 1. ca 20 he praiseth Dancing, and uttereth somewhat like to that avouched by you, and s Cap. 22. 23. 24. & 25. treateth of circumstances (a point you touch also) which being all observed, dancing may be honestly and honourably used: But his speech of Fortitude and Temperance represented by men and maidens in a danse, cometh nothing near your maids and wooers measures, whereto you would stretch it. For, among divers manners and kinds of dancing used in ancient time, he rehearseth one, wherein (as t De saltat. Lucian saith, translated word for word by him in a manner) 8 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dansed young men and maidens; the man going before, and expressing 9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. such motions as he might afterward use in war; the maiden following him modestly and shamefastly; so that it represented a pleasant conjunction of temperance & fortitude. Now those warlike motions were (as v De legi. li. 7 Plato showeth, speaking of the like danse) gestures which resembled, partly the avoiding all sorts of wounds and blows by 1 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. bending aside, by 2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 going back, by 3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. leaping up, by 4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. bowing down; partly the enforcing of enemies by shooting 5 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. arrows, and casting 6 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. darts at them, and giving them 7 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. all sorts of wounds. Wherefore this being it, that represented Fortitude in the danse described by Sir Thomas Eliot: far was it from his meaning to make your measures, your sober measures, warlike motions; or compare a wooer treading them, to Fortitude. As far, as to compare a boy doing the same in maiden's likeness, to Temperance. Which, if you had otherwise expressed his sense rightly, yet should you have forborn to apply to yours for the observing of decorum, a thing that you commend so in Homer, and yourself aim at: sith those maids and wooers, intended both by Homer and you, to be wantoness, must use lascivious danses; and the man (if you will needs have such resemblances) be compared rather to Mollitude, or Cowardness, the woman to Incontinency. Beside that, the praise which that learned Knight giveth unto dancing, he giveth it not simply; (for he saith x Lib. 1. ca 19 some danses, do corrupt the minds of them that danse, and provoke sin:) but with limitation, to weet, y cap. 22. & 2●…. being used and continued in such form, and with such observations and rules, as he specifieth. Whereof the first (to name one for example) is, that, by the courtesy or reverend inclination made at beginning of dancing, the dansers and beholders should mark and remember this to be signified, that at the beginning of all our acts, we should do due honour to God, which is the root of prudence. And in deed if dansers in treading of their measures had such regards and meditations: than not Sir Thomas Eliot only, but the Fathers would praise dancing too. For, when godly Bishops assembled in the councils of z Concil. Laodicen. can 53 Laodicea, and a Conc. Ilerd. can. ult. Concilior. tom. 2. Ilarda, decreed that Christians ought not to danse at marriages; when St b In Matt. hom. 59 Chrysostome blamed women for so doing, as being a stain unto their sex; when St c De virginib. lib. 3. Ambrose cited and averred that of d Orat. pro Muraen. Tully, that such as danse are drunk, or mad; when St e In Psal. 32. part. 〈◊〉. Austin said that it were better to spend the Sabbat day in digging & delving, then in dancing: they meant not to restrain men from marking, and remembering, that at the beginning of all their acts, they should do due honour to God; but they thought that dansers have commonly their minds on things of an other quality. Which if your wooers and maidens also had; as (I am persuaded) themselves will not deny, and you seem to have thought by touching so nicely, or rather scarcely touching, the circumstances that you say should be observed in dancing: you abuse the name of that learned Knight, in urging his praise of a good danse that might be, against my dispraise of an ill danse that is. It had been more reason, that when his conceit carried him a little out of the way sometimes, as in that f Lib. 1. ca 20 he praiseth Lucian's stage-danser, who dansed the adultery of Mars and Venus with resembling of 8 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, saith Lucian. every act therein, (which I hope, yourself would not allow on your stage;) you should have acknowledged that through too great a love of dancing, he liked too well of Lucian's treatise: though otherwise he fancied not the autour much; as g Lib. 1. ca 10 he well declareth by noting of * Huius impios & scurriles dialogos scho larum nostrarum censores volunt, si Deo placet, in puerotum scholis praelegi, etc. Hyperius opusc. de sacrar. literar. stud non deferend. his ribaldry, and his too much scorning; and by saying farther, It were better that a child should never read any part of Lucian, than all Lucian. Or, if the sentence of a Knight, so worthy, had such credit with you; why did you not consider h Lib. 1. ca 19 his religious wish, that the names of idols, of Paynim Gods and Goddesses, were not used at this day in ballads and ditties, to the corrupting of many good wits with godless fantasies? For though his reproof do specially touch the most vile idols, Venus, and Bacchus, remembered so in dansing-songs as if the danse were to their honour and memory; a matter most abhorring from Christ's religion, and savouring of the ancient error of Paganism: yet as the i Exod. 33. 13 Psal. 16. 4. Hos 2. 17. Scripture, the ground of his reproof, doth generally condemn such naming of other Gods, semblably he showeth, that, if you had attributed so much to his judgement, you should have eschewed that fault in your tragedy. At least, where the words are uttered as it were in your own person: as k Vlyss. red. prolog. ad Acad. those of 9 Llluminavit Deos. the Gods enlightened or beautificd by Homer's fables are. Perhaps, where players of other men's persons also speak: as l Act. 1. & 5. Ulysses, and m Act. 2. Eumaeus, adoring spirits of 1 Nymphae Naides. Devils, or of dead 2 jupiter. men, and 3 Minerva. women, with sacrifices and prayers; n Act. 2. Telemachus 4 Per jovem. swearing by jupiter; o Act. 4. Philaetius, first 5 Inique semper jupiter: nec enim est Deus Te pejor alter. blaspheming GOD under juppiters' name, then 6 Magne regnator Deûm ●…am fateor esse, fateor in coelo Deos. confessing to him that there are Gods in heaven. Chiefly seeing that these speeches are delivered by the flower of those persons, by whose parts (you say) no hurt could come to any man: and Sir Thomas Eliot thought that such speeches, savouring of Paganism, might corrupt good wits. But howsoever you shall distinguish your Poëme from the ballads and ditties, in which he controlleth this irreligious custom of giving the honour of God to vile idols: yourself do bear witness that he commendeth not the dancing of Eurymachus & the rest of your wooers with their Melanthos on the stage. For among the parts of their dissolute behaviour imagined to be done within, you rehearse their 7 Regiam perdunt domum Luxu, choréis, scelete, dapibusque impiis. dancing: and that in the person, not of a carping Momus, but of wise p Act. 1. Telemachus. Now look what was imagined to be done within, the same was expressed on the stage in part, by your own confession: as Telemachus also saith, that in 8 Quos jam reliqui more viventes suo, Tumultuantes, atque saltantes domi. their manners at home they kept their wont, Their dancing on the stage then, yourself acknowledge, was unhonest dancing. And the dancing praised by Sir Thomas Eliot is honest dancing, you say. Therefore you do manifest wrong unto us both, in alleging him as praising that which I dispraised. q Plutarch. apophthe. reg. & imperat. When the Lacedæmonians had accused the Thebans of many and grievous matters: In deed, quoth Epaminondas, 9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. these have made you give over your short form of speaking. I wish I might be short, as were the Lacedæmonians; but you constrain me to be long: you deal so Theban-like continually with me. A doubtful word being used in a question of yours, 1 Senecamne tu recitare jacturam putes? whether we account it a loss recitare, to recite Seneca; Whereunto I answered that it is one thing 2 Recitare. to recite, another thing 3 Agere. to play, as I declared by sundry writers; and added that I would have been content to hear your tragedy recited; had it been recited or pronounced only; you reply that the word is used in Quintilian; not only de scripto, but also memoriter recitare; and therefore you might use it indifferently, for agere, in a general acceptation; moreover, that as Horace and Persius do scoff bitterly at recitatores also, and the law in the generality of the term noteth also with imfamie, them, qui pronuntiandi, that is properly, recitandi causa in scenam prodeunt: so the University would have thought it a more absurd thing to have heard you, or any other, openly reading your Ulysseses to them, then to have seen it acted as it was. Wherein to the intent you may see how you play the Theban, I will use a comparison, and that within some measure I trust. r 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Plutarch hath written a dialogue to prove that brute beasts have reason as well as men have: in jest peradventure, seeing he maketh it to be avouched by 4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a pig, or hog. Gryllus: or meaning, that they have a natural sagacity and understanding like to reason, not reason capable of Religion, as in the 5 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. conclusion he seemeth to insinuate, and a s Vallesius de sacra philosophia, cap. 44. & 55. certain Christian writer hath maintained, though speaking not so fitly in saying they have reason, sith the t 2. Pet. 2. 12. Scripture termeth them 6 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Creatures void of reason. But suppose that some man being of Gryllus mind, (or let us call him Gryllus for more perspicuity, and make Sempronius likewise his adversaries name;) suppose then that Gryllus having asked this question, 7 Animálne tu rationis expers esse putas? Do you think that animal, a living creature endued with sense, wanteth reason? Sempronius answered him, that animal is one thing, and a beast an other, as v De legi. li. 1. Tully declareth, affirming a 8 Animal hoc providum, sagax, multiplex, acutum, memor, plenum rationis & consilii, quem vocamus hominem. man (whom he calleth animal) to be full of reason, whereof he saith, that 9 Solum est enim ex tot animantium generibus atque naturis particeps rationis, & cogitationis, cùm caetera sint omnia expertia. no beast at all is partaker. If Gryllus should reply that the word is used in x Metamor. lib. 1. Ovid for 1 Pronaque cùm spectent animalia caetera terram, os homini sublime dedit. all things that have life and sense, not for men only, and therefore he might use it indifferently for beasts in a general acceptation: would not they, who see, that belike he meant to comprehend men also under that general word, thereby the more closely to fetch in beasts with them; and that, restraining it to beasts, his question must be, Think you that beasts want reason? which were an idle question, and openly implying a begging of the point in controversy; would they not, I say, condemn him as a wrangling and contentious Sophister? Now, if in the same vain, or rather in a worse, he should add moreover, that as y Epist lib. 1. epi. 1. Horace and z Satyr. 3. Persius speak scoffingly of mad men too, and the a L. 2. D. de postulando. l. 2. D. de curatorib. suriosor. law appointeth gar●…●…s for idiots, that is properly, for men wanting the use of re●…; so the grave Athenian bench of Ariopaguses would judge it more absurd to say that men have reason, than that beasts have it, chiefly certain beasts, as 2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, saith Gryll●… in Plutarch. horses and oxen dancing upon stages in a more exquisite manner than men are lightly able: would not this speech of Gryllus show that he deserveth a sharper commendation, than Plutarch by praising 3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. his sophistry meant unto him? Here your usual dealing causeth me to fear that you will ask whether I make you a Gryllus. As b Theodoret. hist ecclesia. lib. 2. cap. 16 when a Catholic Bishop, being rebuked by an Arian Emperor for standing alone with Athanasius against the whole world, said that the doctrine of faith was not impeached though he alone maintained it, seeing that of old time c Dan. 3. 12. three alone were found who stood against the King's commandment: What? quoth an Eunuch, 4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. dost thou make our Emperor a Nabuchodonosor? But, I pray you, leave this eunuchs odious practice in racking my comparisons: and mark the main point whereat I aim in them, and which I seek to open by them. For, as in Gryllus question, and verse, framed like yours, the circumstances give, that he used the general word comprising man, thereby to breed a fancy that if this kind of animal have reason, why not the other? In like sort your express mention of 5 Cuius vel unum simile carminibus me●… Benigna carmen malo posteritas legate: legate, you say, not agate; though agate would have fitted the verse as well as legate. reading, I say, of reading, not of playing, in showing what a jewel you take the reciting of Seneca to be; maketh it probable that you meant to do by the generality of the word recitare. The more, because you used it not only in your verse, where your excuse might serve, that it stood better than agere would in that place; as Gryllus might say likewise for versifying animal rather, then bestiam: but in your prose also, the 6 Tragoedia nova, in aede Christi recitata. title of your tragedy; as if Gryllus, setting down the point controversed between him and Sempronius, should make it, utrum animal sit rationis expers; where the word 7 In the larger sense, that Tully giveth it: Tusc quae. lib. 5. De nat. Deor. lib. 2. not in the stricter of your Lawyers: l. 1. § removet. D de postulando. l. 1. §. in bestiis. D. si quadrup. pauper. sec. di. bestia, would serve as fitly in prose; nay, (if plain dealing were meant) a great deal more fitly. And if you intended not to make that reason which I supposed you did, it is no loss to recite Seneca, Ergo no loss to play him: but meant to use the general word for the special, and to ask Momus only, Think you it a loss to play Seneca? then you begged at Momus hand, or took as granted, the point you should have proved; sith the playing of Seneca was condemned by him, and you undertook to confute his arguments. Again, as Horace, Persius, the law, alleged by Gryllus, do show that certain men want the use of reason, but neither prove that beasts have it, nor that mankind wanteth it; and his presumed testimony of the Ariopaguses, brought in with a particle of similitude, So, as hitting jump with Horace, Persius, and the law, is too too absurd: in like sort the same authors, alleged by yourself, do show that some reciters are misliked by them, but neither prove that players are liked, nor all reciters misliked; and the Universities testimony which you bring in with the same particle, as hitting jump with those authors, I can not say you bring it altogether as Gryllus, but you bring it strangely. For d satire. lib. 〈◊〉. sat. 4. &. De art. poet. Horace scoffeth at them, who 8 In medio qui Scripta foro recitent, sunt multi, quique lavantes. recite their writings out of due place or time, and are 9 Indoctum doctumque fugat recitator acerbus. importunately displeasant: e Satyr. 1. Persius, at 1 Patranti fractus ocello. wantoness reciting 2 Quum carnima lúbum Intrant, & tremulo scalpuntur ubi in●…ma versu. wanton verses, with an 3 Liquida quum plasmate guttur Mobile collueris. Quintilian. li. 1. cap. 14. effeminate voice, and a 4 Quo didicisse, nisi hoc fermentum, & qua semel intus innata est, rupto jecore exierit caprificus? & usque adeò ne Scire ●…uú nihil est, nisi te scire hoc sciat alter? vainglorious mind. The law noteth with infamy such as come upon the stage to recite: belike, for their vainglorious desire of 5 Populo, pexusque, togaque recenti, & natalitia tandem cum sardonyche albus, Sede legens celsa. being seen, and 6 At pulchrum est digito monstrari, & dicier, hic est. getting men's applause, which Persius jesteth at. Now in that you add hereto the University, and make us join with the former in opinion, saying; So the University would have thought it a more absurd thing, to have heard me, or any other, openly reading my Ulysseses to them, then to have seen it acted, as it was: what mean you by this term, So? That if you, or an other, had read your Ulysseses openly unto them, it had been done out of due place, or due time? or, they should have heard wanton verses read? or wanton? or by a wanton? or with a vainglorious mind? or on the stage? In deed, they should have heard 7 In Melanthos part, & Eurymachus. some wanton verses, I grant: and both out of due place, and time, if you had read it 8 Qui pronuntiandi causa in scenam prodierit. where, & 9 Die Dominico. when it was acted. Neither do I doubt but the University would have thought such open reading, of such stuff, on such a day, absurd: though, whether more absurd, then to have seen it acted as it was, I know not. But whatsoever they would have thought in this comparison, wherein the f L. 1. D. de his qui not. infam. law, that you cite, noting both with infamy, should give (me thinks) a deeper print thereof to acting then reading, all things weighed: you are far from hitting the mark, whereat you shoot; namely, from convincing by the Universities testimony, and judgement, my sentence as absurd, that if your tragedy had been recited only, I would have accounted it no more loss of time to have heard you pronounce it, than myself to read it. For, I did not mean, if it had been recited as those were, which the authors by you alleged, do reprove: but as g Lib. 1. sat 4. Horace used to 1 Non recite cuiquam, nisi amicis, idque coactus. Non ubivis corámve quibuslibet. recite his own writings; as 2 Quintilio si quid recitares corrige sodes Hoc aiebat, & hoc. Hora. de art. poet. poëmes were recited to Quintilius Uarus; as h Persii vita. Gloss. vet. 〈◊〉 Persium. Persius did recite his book unto Cornutus, before he published it. Whereof if you pronounce (as you do, if you speak to purpose) that our University would have thought it a more absurd thing, then to have seen it acted as it was: you deal in like manner with our University, as Gryllus with the reverend bench of Ariopaguses, if he should abuse their name and estimation, to persuade that brute beasts have more reason, than the wisest men have. Hereto would be annexed that, which in the fourth and, last head of reasons, you urge again concerning our Universities judgement for the approbation of your plays in general: if your interlaced defence of wasteful cost in setting forth thereof (the only point remaining beside) were discussed. And this is easily done, considering what hath been already proved against you touching the inconveniences and mischiefs of your plays. For having made Momus object the great charges; which how great they were, you know better than I, who summed them perhaps too much beneath the due when I did mention thirty pound; but having made him say that it should have been bestowed on the poor rather, you take him up with three answers: one, that the money was your own, not his; an other, that the charge, though great to him, was mean to you; the third, that none would give the less to the poor for that, none would have given the more without it. All the which I showed to be of no force for warranting of expenses on things of that quality, because, both unhonest spending of a man's own, is wastfulness & riot, condemned by our Saviour in the prodigal son: and, as Nero giving much to get a Plaudite, was the less able to help the poor by so much, and the less willing too perhaps; in like sort may you be. Hereupon you demand of me, What similitude is there, or can there be, between the prodigal son, that in such a sort, as he did, spent all, and brought himself to the extreemest misery; and between your expense? A question, which you would not have pressed, as you do; for your unlikeness to him in that he wasted all, and brought himself to extreme misery thereby: if you had considered that 3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. word in the original text of the Gospel, whereto my quotation for i Luk. 15. 13. riot did direct you. For usually it noteth the quality of expenses made by lose & wanton persons on their pleasures, as in foreign writers, k Ethicor. lib. 4. cap. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Aristotle and l De finib. li 2 Tully; so in m Eph. 5. 18. Tit. 1. 6. 1. Pet. 4. 4. Scripture likewise: and, to that effect in the same parable of the prodigal son is it said n Luk. 15. 30. afterward, that he devoured his goods 4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. with harlotts. Now, in Rome, of old time, there were common 5 Diobolares meretrices. Fest. Scorta diobolaria. Plaut. Poen. harlots to be hired for 6 Two oboli being the third part of drachma, or denarius; & eight drachma, or denarii, weighing an ounce of silver. two pence halfpenny. The price in our days, by reason of the o Io. Athon. gloss. in constit. Othon. de concubine. clericor. removend. Fr. Sansovin. de administr. regnor & rerumpub. lib. 11. cap. de mareschallo. tribute, which they are to pay the Pope, may be enhanced. But if one, desirous of an harlot's company, could have her so cheap, and should plead for himself that the moony he spendeth on her is his own, & the charge not great, neither would he give the less unto the poor for that, nor more without it: were this a lawful bar to stay us from accusing him of 7 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 riot, I mean, of wasteful and unhonest spending; (give it a fit English name, if you know any; I took that which our best interpreters agree on;) but might we not accuse him thereof upon the same ground that Scripture doth the prodigal son? Or, if some Preacher, more severe than p Horat. satyrar. li 1. sat. 2 Cato, should deal so strictly and rigorously with him; might he ask what similitude there is, or can be, between his expense of two pence halfpenny, and the prodigal son, who in such a sort, as he did, spent all, and brought himself to the extremest misery? Much fault have you found with my hard incomparable comparisons and similitudes; & some of them are 8 Sed quid opus teneras mordaci radere vero Auricolas? Pers. sat. 1. hard in deed, though none incomparable: but I must say thereof, as the Apostle of his boasting, q 2 Cor. 12. 11 you have compelled me. For when I took a softer and more gentle course, as here, to encounter that answer made to Momus, Thou sayst the charge is great; but thou mayst come, and look on, Momus, and pay nothing, no man doth ask thee a penny; I resembled it to an answer which the prodigal son might thus have made to his reproover, Thou blamest me for wasting, but I wast none of thine; thou mayst drink with me scotfree, if thou be a good fellow, & welcome: albeit the very word, wasting, might have showed I meant unhonest spending, (for r Luk. 16. 9 1. Tim. 6. 18 Tit. 3. 14. Reu. 14. 1●…. things spent honestly are not wasted,) chief sith I used it in respect of the riot noted by our Saviour; and in the unthrifts speech, drawing good fellows to drink with him, I pointed to his lusty, excessive, dissolute s 1. Pet. 4. 3. drink with lewd companions like himself; yet you did reply, that, if he had been as moderate and thrifty in spending at his board, as you were at your plays, he might well enough have said to any niggard, that should have unwisely found fault with him, as much as I make him say, not with the note of a prodigal, but with the commendation of an ingenuous and liberal disposition. Whereby you make me see, to what reproachful contumelies of a niggardly mind, and want of wisdom and discretion, I should have laid myself open, if I had still endeavoured to disclose unto you the weakness of your answers by gentle similitudes. That similitude therefore of mine, the tender smoothness whereof occasioned you to mistake my meaning, and entertain it so coarsely, I have now corrected with substituting a rougher, which may deliver you from error, and me from such tantes. For seeing you perceve this to be my meaning, that the threefold answer made by you to Momus is like as if t Cic. de finib. lib. 2. Gallonius, or some other Epicure, reproved by a Stoic for going to the stews, should answer him; Thou blamest me for spending two pence halfpenny on a wench, but I spend none of thine; thou mayst go with me thither, if thou be a good fellow, & I will give her as much for thee too; the charge, though it seem great to thee, is small to me; neither will I bestow a dodkin less upon the poor for that, nor more without it: you will not reply, that if Gallonius had been as moderate and thrifty in his spending at his bed, as you were at your plays, (they cost a number of you more, you wot, in several, then twice two pence halfpenny;) he might well enough have said to any niggard, that should have unwisely found fault with him, as much as I make him say, not with the note of a prodigal, but with the commendation of an ingenuous and liberal disposition. And so, by the other similitude likewise mended, and as it were rough hewn, you may the better learn to discern my drift, and spare your own replying. For when, to discover the poverty of your answer touching the poor, I said, that Nero peradventure was either less able, or less willing to help the poor, by reason of five or six thousand pound given for a Plaudite; which charge notwithstanding he might better bear, than some of your students may five or six shillings: you replied, that, if Nero could have as well spared such huge sums of moony, which he spent that way often, as your House, with the company in it, and belonging to it, can once in many years thirty pounds: Nero should have been wronged greatly, being an Emperor, to have been noted of wastfulness; and, if ever he had any such good mind, he mought nevertheless have relieved the poor. Now, altering and changing Nero's charge on Plaudite into v Corn. Tacit. annal. li. 13. his charge on Act (a harlot whom he loved better than his wife,) and telling you that he was less able, or less willing (nay, both) to help the poor, by reason of 9 Quae Princeps furtim mulierculae tribuebat. gifts bestowed on her: I shall not hear, I trust, that, if Nero could have as well spared the sundry sums of moony which he spent that way often, as your House, with the company in it, and belonging to it, can once in many years thirty pounds: Nero should have been wronged greatly, being an Emperor, to have been noted of wastfulness. No, not, though in adding that clause, being an Emperor, you seem to allude to x Ethicor. li. 〈◊〉. Aristotle's saying, that 1 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Princes are not termed wasteful, or prodigal. For therein he respecteth 2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. the abundance of their wealth, which Nero could hardly exceed in gifts and expenses: not the 3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. quality of the matters that they spend their wealth on, wherein as prodigal persons may and do waste, so Nero. Neither will you affirm that Nero mought nevertheless have relieved the poor; for fear lest you cause your reader to suspect you of shamelessness, or sophistry. Shamelessness, if you say, that, whatsoever it were which Nero gave to Act, he had no whit the less in his coffers to give others. Sophistry, if by the word nevertheless, you mean, notwithstanding. For Phoedria in the y Terent. Eun. Comedy, mought have helped Parmeno, notwithstanding the moony that he spent on Thais. Yet 4 Nam quod nos capere oportet haec intercipit. the greater charge he was at with his harlot, the less had he remaining to give his poor servant. And your doubt, if Nero had ever any such good mind, will be as badly opposed unto my speech of his less willinglesse. For both himself, z Sueton Ner. cap. 10. having so good a mind once, became a Cap. 32. & 38. worse minded afterward, when he was grown b ca 30. & 31. wasteful such ways, yea, simply wasteful, proving that to be possible which Aristotle judgeth 5 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the words alleged. not easy to be done: and if he had always been equally ill-minded, yet cometh it otherwise to pass in man's nature, as you might have learned by Caesar and Plutarch. Of whom the one, beholding certain rich strangers and foreigners, at Rome, carrying whelps of dogs and apes in their bosoms, and making much of them, did ask, Whether women brought not forth children in their countries: c Plutarch. vita Periclis. the other saith that Caesar herein gave a worthy and princely admonition to them 6 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. who do consume & waste, upon beasts, the natural affection and love due to men. Both, evidently showing, that the more we spend on things of less value, the less we are disposed to spend on things more precious; sith, d 1. joh. 3. 17. as a man's love is, so is his willingness to spend for love sake: and the love of apes and dogs may better stand with the love of Children, e Mark. 7. 27. each of them being to be loved, though not alike; then expenses on plays may with relieving of the poor, f Prou. 19 17. Mat. 25. 40. the Lord accounting mercy had upon the poor, as had upon himself, & money spent on plays, being as money spent on harlots. Wherefore, if you will be suitable to yourself, & as you deal for plays, so for the love of apes & dogs, for which you may more reasonably; your threefold answer against Momus in your own defence, is quickly turned against Caesar & Plutarch, for those strangers: The love, which they did bear to the whelps of dogs and apes, was their own love, it was not Caesar's, or Plutarch's; great might it be to Caesar and Plutarch, mean to them; neither would they love children the less for that, nor more without it. And as you assaulted Momus with the Scripture, telling him that judas his speech, who said, what needed this waist? is an evil speech; and now, notwithstanding the difference between your plays and Christ; us and Indas, do think that it may also be applied against either the nigardise, or the hypocrisy of any Momus, that shall condemn all expense, as cast away, that is sometime moderately bestowed upon honest sports and pastimes, and not upon the poor: so, what letteth you to think that it may also be applied against either the clownishness, or the hypocrisy of Caesar and Plutarch, who condemned all love, as cast away, that is sometime, moderately bestowed upon sweet whelps of dogs and apes, and not upon children? For, if you should answer, the case is unlike because you can not prove that men's colling and dandeling of such whelps is seemly, which Caesar and Plutarch saw good cause to reprove: you must be remembered that yet you may say, the thing is seemly, though say it only, and deny their reproof to be just, though not refute it; as you avouch against me that your plays were honest and lawful recreations, whatsoever is rather objected then proved to the contrary. Nay, if Caesar, or Plutarch, had, beside their reasons to prove it unseemly; alleged sundry testimonies of Romans and Grecians so esteeming it, as I did the judgements of a Lacedaemonian, of Horace, of Tully of other learned men, to show that they deemed such cost, as you were at, to be vain and wasteful: yet, as you reply to me that all Paynim and heathen judgement you have answered in the defence of your first reason; so might you to them, that all the testimonies which they bring, you have answered in the 7 Culpam prorsus Hippolyto imputet, juveni protervo, caelibi, duro, truci. prologue of your last play. I have read g The copy of a French letter to Don Bernardin Mendoze. that when the Spaniards invincible navy met with ours, about some five years since, upon the narrow seas, it was published in print, at Parise, by Mendoza the Spaniards procurement, that they got a brave victory, wherein my Lord Admiral of England, with sixteen of the Queen's great ships, were sunk to the bottom of the sea, and the rest put to flight with the vice-admiral Francis Drake. But, God be thanked, we saw my Lord Admiral of England alive at her majesties late being here with us: and now may the Mendozians pick out of their own h Lib. 1. ad ann. Christ. 1588. Mercurius Gallobelgicus, that neither any one ship of the Queen's navy, were it great, or small, was sunk by the Spaniards, nor the vice-admiral put to flight. And thus at length approaching unto the conclusion, I come to your maintenance of that which you objected concerning the judgement of our University. Wherewith (lest I pass any thing of weight in your reply, as you do many in mine) I will join that elsewhere you touch about the worshipful, & sometimes honourable presence at your plays; and those reverend, famous, and excellent men, for life, and learning, and their places in the Church of God, who have been not only writers of such things themselves, but also actors, and do think well of them (as you affirm) to this day. Our Universities judgement therefore you avow that you produced rightfully to the approving of your plays, because the greater part of the University did with their hearty applause approve them. An argument, that neither layeth sound foundation, nor buildeth thereupon to purpose. For how prove you, first, that the greater part did with their hearty appause approve them; seeing you acknowledge that many, some absent, some present, disallowed them? Forsooth, you say, you are sure of it. But your bold avouching things, you are not sure of, doth make me doubt of your assurance. For, upon my speech that certain who came thither were pressed thereunto by great importunity, you wish they had more truly, and more charitably, for dancing, kissing, and other demeanour, reported to me of your plays, with such a mind as you will forbear (you say) to speak of. Wherein you do charge them, how charitably, judge yourself; but questionless, most untruly, with making false reports of your plays to me, to whom they made no report at all thereof. Yea, you take upon you to pronounce of their thoughts: and say they did it with such a mind, as in your i Quintilian. lib. 9 cap. 2. figurative forbearing to speak of, you speak most bitterly of, and raise a very wrongful and vile suspicion of them. Again, where I told you how the grave and learned man, our common friend, showed me his dislike of the representation of amorousness, and drunkenness; in the Comedy, both; the former, not in it only: you say, that you know how far he did somewhat dislike some Comical action; but you are sure he commended much the plays to you, & would be sorry that any speech of his should be, by mistaking, alleged against you. And do you not in assuring us after this sort that he did like of your plays, saving a little in the Comedy, imply that he disliked nought in any tragedy? Or breed you not a slanderoous surmise of his integrity, as if he had commended to you the very same, which unto me he discommended? Or seek you not to make men think that I mistook him, in fathering that upon him; when himself hath sithence acknowledged unto me, that I mistook him not; and (as I am persuaded) hath certified you no less too? Wherefore your pronouncing, that you are sure the greater part did with their hearty applause approve your plays, may rather prove you to be rash, than your assertion to be true. Chiefly, sith you mention, not only their applause, a thing that sense might judge of; but their hearty applause, a circumstance presumed by your conceit peradventure. For as they did 8 Nisi displic●…imus, vos gregi applausum date. clap their hands after your plays, so 9 Iterum benignus undique applausus sonnet. after the appendix thereof touching Momus. Which yet some approovers of your plays approved not: as themselves have signified. How can you then be sure, that all, who did clap their hands, did it with liking; and that the applause, which they gave, was hearty? Beside that, if their hearts joined with their hands, how can you be sure they approved your plays by such applause, and not somewhat else? As k Orat. pro P. Sextio. Tully declareth that the Romans used it to show their love of gracious persons: and in l Vlyss. red. epilogo. one of your plays 1 Huic vos Elisae quem decet plausum date. you wished it to be given to her gracious Majesty. Nether is it impossible, but that, as a m Horat. epist. lib. 2. ep. 1. number gave it to the 2 Lana Tarentino violas imitata veneno. apparel and furniture of the stage at Rome: so lighter bodies might with you. And what if the graver sort did show the liking of your pains and charges employed for their delight sake? or of the better parts; not of wantoness, of drunkards, & of the whole plays? Now, suppose the greater part of the University approved them with their hearty applause: might you therefore lawfully urge the Universities judgement as making for them? Yea, say you, if the greater part may denominate the whole, Nay, by your leave, even so too will you come short still, unless you add, that judgement and hearty applause is all one: which n Cicero, orat. pro Plancio. he, who affirmed that 3 In comitiis, praesertim aedilitiis, studium esse populi, non ●…dicium. the people of Rome was lead with affection sometimes, not with judgement, did put a difference between. And though the greater part denominate the whole, commonly; & always may, if the word, greater, be well expounded: yet there fall out cases when the lesser part in number shall denominate it, and the greater shall not. For example sake, o Synod. A●…cyr. can. 2●…. Basil. ep. ad Amphil. can. 83. Greg. Nysse. epist. ad. Lat. can. 3 there were in the primitive Church certain Christians (as in ours there are) who, having lost sowewhat, would go to a wizard, or a setter of figures, or other such soothsayer, to know how it went from them, or by what means they might recover it. p Sext. synod. in Trul. can. 61. One of the general councils spoke against this: and called it 4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, saith the Council touching this and the like customs. a pernicious and an heathenish custom. The number of Bishops assembled in that Council was lesser of all likelihood (amounting q Theodor. Balsam. de ea synodo quae dicitur sexta. not to twelve score) than the number of Christians, who either used that practice themselves, or liked it in others. Yet, in my opinion, the Church's judgement did control it: and to say the contrary, because the greater part denominateth the whole, were most injurious to the Church. Or, if this example satisfy you not, r Can. 62. the same Council made a decree, that 5 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. no man should put on woman's raiment. Whereto, being pressed by me, when you reply that the voice of the Church therein may be interpreted by them who are of your mind; you acknowledge, that, taking it in the right sense, it is the Church's judgement. And the sense thereof by 6 Of the text of Scripture, Deut. 22. 5. where the Greek translation hath, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: the very words used by the Council. your interpretation of putting on, or wearing, must be that none may do it commonly. So, the Council speaking of doing it in plays, you grant that the Church's judgement is against it as common players use to practise it. But greater assemblies of Christians then that Council, allow it in common players: the Curtain and Theatre can tell so much. Neither will you say, that common players are approved by the Church's judgement. For, the Church's judgement you profess obedience too: yet 7 Histrioniam accusas? Non defendo sed famam, pudorem, atque innocentiam. Histrioniam vero ipsam, vel tecum accusabo, si voles. common players you condemn. The lesser part therefore in number may sometime denominate the whole; and the greater may not. Which if we apply to the case in question, it is plain you should not have urged the Universities judgement for your plays, although the greater part thereof had approved them. For, the chiefest cause that moved the governors of our University, the Uicechancellour and Convocation, to forbid by statute the use of common plays among us, was, s The University statute against common stage-players: made in the year 1584. lest the younger sort should be spectators of so many lewd and evil sports as in them are practised. Now, reason doth give, that men of understanding, who, through a godly care of the good training up of youth, restrained them from seeing those plays, because of such sports; must think it inconvenient for them to see such sports in what soever plays, even in your Rivales. And, if inconvenient to see such sports only, much more to play and represent such: the representing of them being so far worse, than the beholding, in t De legib. lib. 7. Plato's judgement, that 8 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. they would be seen and known, he sayeth, because their contraries, honest things and serious, can not be known without them, if one intent to be wise; but 9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 practise both them, and their contraries, it is impossible, if one intend to have as much as a spark of virtue. Our gouvernours might think more hopefully, than Plato, that virtuous youths may do them both: and Plato peradventure meant by impossible, very hard, as v De universi. Tully 1 Plat. Timaeo; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cic. Difficillimun factu. elsewhere doth interpret him. But the dutiful reverence, which I own unto them, will not permit me to judge of them, that where Plato suffered his citizens to see sports of folly and scurrility, yet none 2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. beside bondslaves & mercenary strangers to imitate and express them: the guides of our University should deem it convenient for youths to be actors of lose and wanton pranks, whereof to be spectators, they have pronounced it unmeet and hurtful for them. Wherefore, what soever the greater part approved with their hearty applause, I am persuaded still that you did wrong in urging the Universities judgement as making for your plays. No less in a manner, then if one beholding a great number of Scholars playing in winter time at football, should say, the Universities judgement doth approve it. Which I contrariwise should be so far from thinking, that if any graver man were looking on them, or touched the ball with his foot, I would take it rather to savour of affection borne to some playing thereat, then of judgement. As for the worshipful, and sometimes honourable presence at your plays, you might seem to press it against me with more credit, if honourable and worshipful persons never used to grace any plays, save only yours, with their presence. But if they be present at common plays also, such as our Vniversitie-statute banisheth hence, and yourself make offer that 3 Histrioniam ipsam vel tecum accusabo, si voles. you will join with me in writing against the players thereof, if I will: consider with yourself what you would answer to this argument alleged by those players, and let the same serve on my behalf to yours. For a supply whereof I add, that worthy personages, who, upon intreatty, become your spectators, perhaps think with Plato, that the seeing of Comedies played can do no harm, of tragedies may be dangerous; perhaps incline to Aristotle, that they both may safely be seen by elder folk, not by younger: and so, though themselves behold one, or both, yet do they warrant neither of the points you strive for; I mean, that either students of Christ-church may be actors, or the youth of Oxford spectators of your plays. x Plini epistolar. lib. 〈◊〉. ep. 22. ad Sempronium Rufum. There were at Uienna, in the time of trajan the Emperor, by some bodies last will and testament, certain solemn games and shows set forth yearly: 4 Placuit ag●…na tolli, qui mores Viennensium infecerat, ut noster hic omnium. the which, as Pliny saith, had stained the manners of the inhabitants of that city, in like sort as the games & shows set forth at Rome had stained the manners of all the world. This corruption of manners was not bred by other exercises and masteries tried, in those games, but by the stage-plays, as a y Petr●… Faber, agonist. lib. 1 cap. 26. learned man of your profession judgeth: and z Panegyrico Trajan. Pliny's own speech, concerning sundry kinds of games among the Romans, maketh it most probable, that he meant, the corruption grew from stage-plays chief, if not from them alone. But when the Uiennians plays were taken away by Trebonius Rufinus, a governor of theirs, and he was accused to the Emperor for it: junius Mauricus, a grave and faithful Counsellor, being asked by the Emperor, what he thought thereof, said, 5 Non esse restituendum Viennensibus agôna. it was not meet the plays should be restored again to the Viennians; adding, 6 Vellem etiam Romae tolli posset. I would to God they might be taken away at Rome too. Which corollary of his sentence touching plays at Rome, it may be, that as 7 Viennensium vitia intra ipsos residunt: nostra late vagantur. Vtque in corporibus, si●… imperio gravissinus est morbus, qui à capite d●…funditur. Pliny liked very well of, so the Emperor did: albeit he gave order for the not restoring of the Uiennians only; and yet showed great mislike of plays therein also, forbidding that to be done which by ones a L. ult in sin. c. de fideicomm. Nou. 1. in praefat. §. Semper. testament was required. Deceve not yourself, Master D. Gager, with a vain conceit, as if, because a Prince, far and far more excellent than trajan, though surnamed 8 Optimus, Plin. locis citatis; & Dio, Trajan. Xiphilini epit. most virtuous, with Her counsellors and Nobles more honourable than Mauricus, did vouchsafe the last year to see that Comedy played, which being played a few moonths before I reproved, therefore you had gained against me the matter in question between us. Her Majesty with their Honours, & Commons of the realm, having made an Act of Parliament b 14 Eliz. ca 5 long since, and c 35 Eliz. ca 7 sith that time renewed it, that common players in interludes, not licenced by special authority to go abroad, shall be adjudged rogues and vagabonds, hath taken away more plays, and in more places, than trajan did by giving order that they should not be used again at Vienna. Whether the taking of them away at Oxford too, have been wished by any of the Counsellors, who might be notwithstanding present with her Highness, as Pliny & Mauricus of likelihood were with Trajan at the plays in Rome: you and I are not so near of their counsel, that we can define. But thus much I may say, and say it upon knowledge, that, if your Comedy had still as homely speeches (to say no worse) as it had when your d Prologue. in Rivales comaediam: actam Febr. 1591. prologue praised it, there is greater cause why you should fear the check which 9 Non putabam me tibi tam familiarem. Macrob. Saturn. lib. 2. cap. 4. Augustus gave one (were not our Augusta the more gracious to us) for presuming to play it before a presence of such honour: then why you should mention to the credit of your plays, and to my discredit, that they are things done by you, in a worshipful, and sometimes honourable presence. But reverend, famous, excellent men, for life, and learning (you say) and for their places in the Church of God, have been not only writers of such things themselves, but also actors; and to this day do think well of them: to whom it were a great reproach (thus you amplify it) at any time to have been acquainted with things of so vile & base quality; & much more, still to allow of them. e August. de bapt. contr. Donatist. lib. 2. cap. 1. When the Donatists praised St 1 Cyprianus, cujus tantum meritum novimus, tantamque doctrinam. Cyprians life, and learning, and spoke of 2 Cum coëpiscopis suis. his place in the church of God, to countenance their error by the reputation of such a Bishop and Martyr, S. Austin, answering them, said that 3 Non me deterret autoritas Cypriani, quia reficit humilitas Cypriani. the authority of Cyprian did not dismay him, because the humility of Cyprian did relieve him. Which as Austin said, considering how f Ad Quintum, ep. 71. edit. Pam. Cyprian had set down in writing, that Peter, whom the Lord chose his g Mark. 3. 16. first Apostle, and h Matt. 16. 18 upon whom he built his Church, did not, when i Gal. 2. 11. Paul afterward grew to question with him touching circumcision, take proudly on himself, to say that he had the prerogative of being first, and that new-sprong and later-come aught rather to obey him; neither despised he Paul for k Act. 9 1. having been a persecuter of the Church before, but yielded to the advice of truth, and easily approved the rightful way, which Paul contended for; giving us a lesson of peaceableness, and patience, that we should not obstinately love our own conceits; but such things as sometimes are profitably and wholesomely showed us by our brethren and fellows in office, those should we account of as our own rather, if they be true and rightful: whereunto Paul having a careful eye also, and Christianly providing for concord and peace, said, l 1. Cor. 14. 29 Let the Prophets speak, two or three, and let the rest judge; and if any thing be revealed to an other that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace; teaching therein that many things are revealed better to particular persons; and that every one, if any thing be found better and more profitable, ought gladly to embrace it, not obstinately to strive for that which he hath once conceived and maintained: as these points (I say) noted thus by Cyprian made m Lib 2 ep. 5 Austin be persuaded of him, that seeing he knew, he might more easily err then Peter, he would have been very well content to change his mind, if any man by 4 Satis ostendit, facillimè se correcturum fuisse sententiam suam, si quis ei demonstraret, and so forth; meaning this kind of proof, as appeareth by that he addeth, undè multa jam diximus, compared with that he pointeth to, lib. 1. ca 7. & by Cypri. ep. 47. ad Pompeium. Scripture had proved him to be overseen, or 5 Gu●… & ipse sine dubio cederet, si jam illo tempore quaestionis hu ius veritas eliquata & declarata per plenarium concilium solidaretur. the Church had sifted the truth in a general Council, and agreed of it; so the knowledge of the same engraven in those learned and godly men, whom you speak of, induceth me to think that when they shall have weighed what grounds of God's word, what consent of the Church, what Counsels, what Fathers, impugn their opinion, they will not approve your obstinate striving for it. It may be, that they will mislike of your art too, in that, for the surer uniting of them to you, and stirring them up against me, you do not only affirm that they are exceedingly tainted in honour, if plays, which they allow of, be justly disallowed by me: but also, that it were a great reproach to them, though not so exceedingly great, as is the other, yet a great reproach, at any time to have been acquainted with things of so vile and base quality. For why? Is the writing of Comedies, or tragedies, but what speak I of writing? in mentioning whereof your art appeareth farther, sith I condemned it not: is the playing of them made by me a thing of so vile and base quality, as persecuting, or blaspheming? Yet Saint Paul thought it no great disgrace for him, n 1. Tim. 1. 13 in former time to have been a blaspemer, and a persecuter, when o ver. 12. he was now become a faithful minister of Christ: no more then for the Romans p Rom. 6. 17. to have been slaves of sin, when they did now obey the doctrine of the Gospel; or for Abraham q jos. 24. 2. to have been in the land of Chaldaea & served other Gods there; when r Gen 12. 5. he came now to Chanaan. and s s ver. 8. served there the Lord. Not, t Psal. 119. 67 Luk. 15. 10 1. Cor. 6. 11. Rev. 3. 18. & 7. 14. & 19 8 to have been evil, is a reproach; but to be. Again, what reason have you to say that a much greater reproach it were to them, still to allow of plays: when you commend St Cyprian as a man of singular godliness, and zeal, v Epist. 70. sequen●…ibusque: & conc. Carthag. de bap. baeret. who did more than allow, an other manner of matter than plays, even rebaptizing of men baptised by heretics? For as he followed x Epist. 71. & 73. his predecessors in this error, and therefore was the more excusable: so had the reverend men, whom you allege, their predecessors that trained them to the liking of plays. Neither is it probable that they have been advertised of their oversight by any such man's writing, as Cyprian was by y Vincent. Lirin. contr. haer. cap. 9 Stephanus. And z Epist. 73. & 74. Cyprian continued in his error still, notwithstanding that advertisement: how know you that they have not changed their opinion? Or, if they have not changed it, they may ere they die: which none is able to say that Cyprian did, for aught that a Epist 48. & de bapt. count Donatist. lib. 2. cap. 4. Austin could find, a man most likely to have found it, had there been aught that could have showed it. Wherefore it savoureth strongly of a bad quality, that you would persuade them, they must by my judgement be noted and disgraced with a fowl exceeding great reproach and infamy, if they allow of plays still. Much worse doth it savour, that you bear them in hand, although their minds should alter and think hereof when they pray, b Psal. 25. 7. Remember not, O Lord; the sins of my youth, it must be nevertheless a great reproach unto them, at any time to have been acquainted with the writing and playing of such matters. But what quality, nay, what canker shall I say it savoureth of, that, unto the Prophets, whose judgement and authority the c 1. Cor. 14. 32. spirits of these Prophets were likely to be moved with, I mean, unto the Fathers and Counsels laid in balance by me against your testimonies, you reply, that, if they be rightly understood, their forces are not bend against you; Whereas your own pen telleth you, that you know the contrary. For, the first and greatest Council that I quoted, is d Sexta syn●… dus in Trull●…. that general Council of Constantinople, which (grounding itself upon the place of Deuteronomie) noteth mens wearing of women's raiment in plays as a heinous crime. Now this to make against you, even being rightly understood, yourself did acknowledge when I alleged it afore: in so much that you opposed thereunto the opinion of others interpreting that text otherwise then the Council doth. The same did you likewise confess of sundry Fathers upon the same occasion, & namely of Saint Cyprian; whom here notwithstanding you do namely mention as making not against you: yea, whom you moreover do set down for a special pattern of the rest, to infer the general, that none of all the Fathers or councils do reprove your plays. For, Saint e Epistolar. 〈◊〉. 2. ep. 2. Cyprian (say you) inveigheth most eloquently and godly against the abuses of the 6 Cothurnus est tragicus prisca facinora carmine recensere, etc. tragic buskin in his time. So he doth also against the evils of war, of judgement seats, of judges, of advocates, of gold, and riches. Shall we therefore conclude there should be no war, no tribunals, no judges, no advocates, no gold, no riches; and likewise no tragic buskin in any sort? Whereupon you add; No doubt the Fathers, as holy men of God, both in their Councils, and in their books, have decreed, and written, many zealous & most godly things against the theatrical sights of their times: but distinguish the times, the places, the qualities of the sights & actors, and the use from the abuse; and it is evident by that which is said before, that we and our plays are not reproached by them. Thus labour you to face it out that your plays are not reproached by the Fathers, as dealing forsooth, just like Saint Cyprian against the abuses of playing tragedies, not the use; when yet you had granted that f Epist. 61. or (as your copy hath it) lib. 1. ep. 10. he condemneth 7 Cùm in lege prohibeantur viri mu●…ierē endure vesten & maledicti eiusmodi iudicentur: quanto maioris est criminis non tantum muliebria indumenta accipere, sed & gestus quoque turpes, & molles, & muliebres, magisterio artis impudicae exprimere? the attiring of boys in women's raiment, and teaching them to 8 Quemadmodum masculus frangatur in foeminam. play the women, the self same thing he doth in the 9 Evirantur mares; honour omnis & vigour sexus enervati corporis dedecore mollitur; plusque illic placet quisquis virum in foeminam magis fregerit. place you quote: so that your tragedie-playing is reproved by him in your own conscience, because of your Melantho and Nais played by boys, although it were true that he inveigheth only against the abuses thereof, as you distinguish. The truth is that he distinguished not so, neither for tragic buskin, nor for comic stertup, but inveigheth against stageplaying itself: in like sort as he doth against the games and sights of 1 Paratur gladiatorius ludus, ut libidinem crudelium luminum sanguis oblectet. fencers, or sword-players, and of 2 Quid illud, oro te, quale est, ubi se feris obiiciunt quos nemo damnavit? beast-players (so to term them) wherewith he matcheth this of 3 convert hi●… vultus ad diversa spectaculi non minus paenitenda contagia: in theatris conspicies, quod tibi & dolori sit & pudori. stage-players. So that the absurd conclusion which you frame, of no war, no judges, no advocates, no riches, if no tragic buskin, is framed amiss on error, and would have reason enough if it were framed rightly, as it should be, thus, that, if no stageplaying aught to be allowed by Saint Cyprians judgement, then ought there no. 4 Homicidium quum admittunt singuli, crimen est: virtus vocatur quum publicè geritur. unjust wars, no perfidious advocates, no 5 Patronus praevaticatur, & decipit. 6 judex sententiam vendit. corrupt judges, no. 7 Divites, continuant●… saltibus saltus, & de confinio pauperibus exclusis infinita ac sine terminis rura latius porrigentes. covetous encrochers on the poor, to be allowed: because he inveigheth as well against the iniquity, treachery, bribery, and misery of these, as he doth against stageplaying. Or, if you will needs have him to reprove the abuses only of stageplaying, not the thing: then by like reason he reproveth not the bloody sport and game of beast-players, or of sword-players, but the abuses of it. Which, I hope you will not affirm to be his meaning, no not for the former, sith 8 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. the Church condemned it, as g Advers. haer. conclus. compend. ver. doctr. de fide cath. & apost. Ecclesiae. Epiphanius witnesseth: 9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, translated venationem, meaning that hunting which Cassiodore describeth, variar. lib. 5. epist. 42. Quo muner●… venator explendus est, qui, ut spectantibus placeat, suis mortibus elaborat. etc. it, I say, the thing, not the abuses of it, as if it had a right use, allowed by the Church. At least you will not make it his meaning for the later; which Emperors, less severe than that holy Martyr, even h Euseb. lib. 〈◊〉 vit. Constant. cap. 25. Constantine, i Cod. Theod. lib. 15. tit. 12. l. 1. Theodosius, k Theodoret. hist. eccl. lib. 5. cap. 26. Honorius, and l C. de gladiatoribus penitus tollendis. justinian, took absolutely away by edicts and laws, as a thing faulty of itself. Though, when I consider your speech, above rehearsed, of so many Circi, Theatra, Amphitheatra, builded by the greatest & bravest Romans with huge charge; and of games set out therein, referred by Aristotle to magnificence, a goodly virtue: Your professed desire of approving the Romans judgement so far forth, as serveth for the necessary defence of your own doings, causeth me to doubt that seeing in 1 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Epiphanius. in the place quoted. Theatra, condemned by the Church, you distinguish abuse from use, you will in 2 Ludi circenses: which he nameth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Circi also, and 3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Dio. lib. 43. used not only to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, whereof Epiphanius; but also to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & gladiatoria certamina. Tertull. de spect. cap. 12 & 1●…. Amphitheatra; and therefore say that Cyprian reproveth not the use, but the abuses only of beast-playes, yea of swoord-playes, unless there come some other shift into your mind for severance of your stage-plays from them. And sure if one possessed with m Discors. sopr. liv. lib. 2. cap. 2. Osor. de nobilit. Christ. lib. 3. machiavels humour and love of bloody sacrifices, as helping by the sight thereof to make men valiant, should wish for bloody games of swoord-players in like respect: he might, by your example, not only challenge them from the mark of infamy wherewith the Romans branded them, (for n Satyr. 8. fuvenal, o August. cap. 43. Calig. cap. 30. Suetonius, p Annal. li. 15 Tacitus, and so forth, do reproach noble men and Knights for swoord-playing, not base folk;) but also defend them from the reproof of Cyprian and all the rest of the Fathers. For q De spectac. cap. 4. Cyprian inveigheth most eloquently and godly against the abuses of swoord-playing in his time. So r Epist. lib. 2. ep. 2. he doth also against the evils of war, of judgement seats, of judges, of advocates, of gold, and riches. Shall we therefore conclude there should be no war, no tribunals, no judges, no advocates, no gold, no riches, and likewise no swoord-playing in any sort? No doubt the s Iren. lib. 1. cap. 1. Tertull de spect. cap. 19 Arnob. advers. gent lib. 2. Minut. Felix in Octau. Lactant. divinar. instit. epit. cap. 4. August. confess. lib. 6. cap. 8. Prudent. con●…r. Symnach. lib. 2. Fathers, as holy men of God, have written many Zealous and most godly things against the amphitheatrical sights of their times: but distinguish the times, the places, the qualities of the sights and actors, and the use from the abuse; and it is evident by that which Machiavelli saith, that swoord-playes of our age are not reproached by them. A very true sentence, that, no doubt the Fathers have written many zealous and most godly things against those sights of both sorts: and likewise true, no doubt, that it is as evident by Machiavels' discourse, that, if such swoord-playes should now be used in London, as were then at Rome, the Father's check them not; as it is by yours, that the Fathers do not repoche the same stage-plays of Plautus, Terence, Seneca, or worse (which comparison Rivales may well bear) played here, of late, among us. Wherefore it had been better for your credit to contain yourself within generalities, by saying that men mistake the Fathers: as Machiavelli contented himself to say in gross, that base and cowardly wretches have misse-interpreted our religion. For than I could not have blamed you about particulars; your policy had prevented me, as it hath in Chrysostome: whose testimony, t Homil. 56. in Gen. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. quoted by me against your wasteful expenses on such toys, you make no answer to, no more then to v Clem. Alexander. poedag. lib. 3. cap. 11. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Salvian. de gubern. Dei lib. 6. Perditae expensae. others whom I quoted not. Now, when you affirm that Cyprian, and the rest, writing against the theatrical sights of their times, do not write against such as in our time are used: I must needs tell you, that you show less conscience and singleness in your writing, then to whom you ought and easily might excel in all religious duties, Bodinus, and Lipsius. Of whom x Bodin. de repub. li. 6. ca 1 the one, declaring what need there is for Censors for theatres of our time, allegeth sundry Fathers, and namely Cyprian, against them: yea, that very epistle of y Lib. 2. ep. 2. Cyprian, which you specify, and wring to the contrary. The z Lips. de gladiatorib. lib. 1. cap. 7. other, observing how the Fathers have inveighed against games, as 4 Libidinis saevitiaeque fontes. springs of lust, and cruelty; pointing, in the term of lust, unto theatres; of cruelty, unto amphitheatres; doth argue that swoord-playes, if they were used in our time, might be as well denied to be reproached by the Fathers, as stage-plays of our time are. But, with whatsoever cunning or boldness, you blind the eyes of children, and make them believe that these ancient Prophets writ not against your fancy: the praise given by you to our own Prophets, those reverend and famous persons now living, causeth me to fear I was too faint when I said, They will not approve your obstinate striving for it; I should have said, They will not approve your bare opinion or this, will, is also too faint; They do not approve it. For, being excellent men in life, they love modesty, and yield unto the known truth. Being excellent in learning, they know that your theatrical sights are of the same kind, that the Fathers have decreed in their councils, and written in their books against. The things which the Fathers have decreed and written, are not only zealous, but also most godly, as you say. Most godly; therefore consonant to the holy Scriptures: on the ground whereof it is expressly noted by a In the place above quoted. Epiphanius likewise that 5 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. the church's doctrine and ordinances were framed. And how can it be thought then with any likelihood, that those reverend persons do approve your stage-plays: which, by all presumptions, and your own verdict, they know that the Church, the Fathers, the Counsels, the Scriptures have condemned? In deed if they were Papists, and such as would rather put on the shameless forehead of the hoore of Babylon, then confess themselves to have been overseen: a man might have reason to think, that their own doings they would still allow of. For, whereas the profane and wicked toys of Passion-playes, plays setting forth Christ's passion, procured 6 Magno scelere atque impretate sacerdotum, qui eiusmodi fieri curant: faith Vives. by Popish Priests, who, being b 2 Cor. 11. 3 corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ, as they have transformed the celebrating of the Sacrament of c 1 Cor. 11. 20 the Lords supper into a d Missale Romanun: tit. de ritib. celebrandi Missam Masse-game, and all other parts of Ecclesiastical service into e Sacerdotale, Pontificale, & Ceremoniale Romanun. theatrical sights; so, in steed of f 2. Tim. 4. 2. preaching the word, they caused it to be played; a thing g Epist. japanic. 18. Io. Fernandis Bongo. put in practice by their flowers, the jesuits, among the poor Indians; but whereas these babbles were reproved by h Comment. in Augustin. de ciu. Dei, lib. 8. cap 27 Vives: the i Index expurgatorius. Purgatorie-censors commanded 7 Deleantur cap. 27. litera D ab, Atqui mos nunc est, etc. usque ad E. that reproof of his to be defaced; and the k Autuerpiensi editione operum Aug. Divines of Lovan have razed it out accordingly. Yea, though l Concil. Mediolan. 1. Constit. part. 1. cap. de actionib. & repres. sacris. some Italian Bishops in a Council, under their Archbishop Cardinal Borrhomaeus, have 8 Statuimus ut deinceps salvatoris passio nec in sacro, nec in profano loco agatur. ordered, for their Province, that the Passion shall not be played hereafter any where: yet (for fear of breeding a scruple in men's minds that their Church might err) they say, 9 Pie introducta consuetudo repraesentandi populo venerandam Christi Domini passionem. it was a custom religiously brought in. So loath are ambitious spirits to acknowledge their oversights and faults. But seeing that our reverend Pastors and Doctors have an other spirit, as m Numb. 14. 24. he saith of Caleb, and profess a purer religion than Papists: you must give me leave to suspect rather that you charge them wrongfully, than that men of excellent godliness and wisdom do allow and think well of so manifold evils, as in your plays I have disclosed. And thus, a great deal later than my desire and hope was, but as soon as sickness and business would permit, have you that performed, which in your conclusion, by words, you request me to forbear the doing of; in your whole discourse, by deeds, you have induced and urged me to undertake. The reason added by you to move me to forbear it, namely, that I have some thing else to do, then to trouble myself, and my better studies, with a matter of this nature and moment; I know not whether it would have seemed sound to others, sure to me it did not. For, if I had lived among the jews at that time, when n 2. Maccab. 4. 14. the priests neglecting the service of the altar, and sacrifices of the law, made haste to be partakers 1 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. of unlawful games in the wrestling place: I should of all studies have deemed that the best, which the Lord requireth at his Prophet's hands, o Ezek. 13. 5. to rise up in the gap, and keep out p Matt. 13. 25 Eph 6. 11. 1. Pet. 2. 11. the enemy striving to enter in thereby, What study therefore could I account so good, as this, to spend my vacant time in, when Christians, q 1. joh. 2. 20. anointed by God, r 1. Pet. 2. 5. an holy Priesthood, make haste from spiritual sacrifices and service to be partakers of stage-plays; that is, of more unlawful games than were 2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Plutarch. Symposiac. li. 2. quaest. 4. those exercises in the wrestling place, as s 1. Cor. 9 25. Tertullian. lib. ad Martyras, cap. 3. the thing itself, & your own t L. 4. Comparata cuml. 2. D. de his qui not. infam. law may teach you? Again, the v Prou. 22. 6. virtuous training up of youth among us, and the x Matt. 5. 14. Eph. 2. 10. Phil. 2. 15. godly life of all sorts of persons, are matters of great moment and weight in his sight, y 1. Pet. 1. 17. who without respect of person judgeth every man according to his work. Now, what hurt it is for youth to be seasoned with a liking of stage-players; I say not, to be stage-players themselves, which is worse, but to have a liking and love of such only; the autour of z Dialog. de oratorib. Tacito inscript. the dialogue (were it Tacitus, or Quintilian) touching the decay of eloquence among the Romans, doth show by 3 Propria & peculiaria huius urbis vitia, histrionalis favour, & gladiatorum equoruque studia. Quibus occupatus & obsessus animus quantulum loci bonis artibus relinquit? their example. And, how the manners of all spectators commonly are hazarded by the contagion of theatrical sights, I made plain unto you in my former letters by the testimonies of learned men and noble nations; all granted by yourself, or as good as granted, in that you have either not answered them at all, or unsufficientlie. Wherefore, considering S. a Confession lib. 6. cap. 7. Aust. zealous care to reclaim Alipius (a young man whom he loved, a worthy Bishop afterward) from 4 Insania Circensium, as S. Austin termeth it. the vain delight that he took in seeing games of chariot-drivers: I could not but esteem it a thing of price, and worth, to seek to reclaim from a far more vain and dangerous delight the Students of your house, among whom there are many no less dear to me then Alipius was to Austin, and as likely (by God's grace) hereafter to prove well. With whom I have also greater cause to hope that I shall prevail, than he had with Alipius, because yourself tell me, that you do and ever will most gladly embrace, not only my good will, but also my judgement in this cause so far as I writ in the general against stage-players. For I am persuaded that their opinions of me are as kind as yours: and then do they agree with me in a manner about the point we treat of. They will agree wholly, if they weigh advisely one rule, which b L. 147. D. de regulis juris. you can teach them, and I would I might entreat you so to do: namely, that 5 Semper specialia generalibus insunt. the general doth evermore comprise the special. The Lord behold both them, and you, in his mercy: and give you all his grace to know the way that leadeth unto life eternal, and to walk therein. At Queen's College, the 30th of May. 1593. Yours in the Lord john Rainolds. JOANNI RAINOLDO doct. theologo clariss. Albericus Gentilis, S. NON feres, opinor, aegrè, missa haec à me in vulgus, quae unum habent, & alterum aliter, atque tu senseris, & docueris. Neque enim ego contra te stare volui, à quo steti semper, & Deo faciente stabo: sed adversus alios disputavi, quos sequi non potui: eos etsi tu sequereris, & ad probares. Rogavi te coram de utraque quaestione: nec tamen audire à te nisi nudam sententiam tuam valui. Petii etiam à communi amico nostro Errico Cuffio, ut de te ipsum hoc sciscitaretur, si mihi autor esses, ut commentationes istas typis mandarem. Sed aut te convenire ille non potuit: aut accepit nihil, quod responderet. Audi, mi Rainolde: quaestionem de histrionibus publicè ego tractavi antea quam tibi haec quaestio cum altero esset. Itaque ipsam demere nunc de corpore reliquo, honestum non fuerit. Imo ad me spectare videtur, defendere semper jus civile, quod profiteor, & quod semper iustissimum observavi. In vestras autem si sedesque veni, non solùm tutari conatus sum nostras: tu illud nosti juris esse, quando & tu invisere nos in nostris sedibus voluisti. Quanquam de te ego cogitare nequivi, qui post meam commentationem ingressus es istam disceptationem: at moralia, & politica sacrorum librorum aut nostra existimavi, aut certè communia nobis, & theologis: & verò etiamnum versor in eadem opinione. Uale, vir clarissime. Et de meis his chartis, ●…t literis sic facies, ut te in opere, quod nunc aggrederis, arduo, et summo, ne tantillum quidem morentur: neque enim tanti sunt. jul. 7. ALBERICO GENTILI, I. C. professori regio, 10. Rainoldus S. QVae duo per epistolam, erudite Gentilis, à me videris petere, ea tibi lubens ambo concedo: alterum, ne aegrè feram commentarium à te in lucem editum, quimeam sententiam de Samuele pythonissae, & histrionibus oppugnet; alterum, ut literas chartasque tuas sic accipiam, ne me in opere, quod aggredior, vel tantillum morentur. Cur enim ego tibi magis irascar, quod de Samuele adversus a 26. q. 5. c. nec mirum. Augustinum, aliosque theologos à b Praelectionib ad Eccle. cap 46. me citatos disputes; aut quaestionem do histrionibus publicè tractâris antea quàm ego de iis cum altero controversarer: quàm tu succenseas mihi, quòd probationes opiniones tuae à c De purgatorio, li. 2. ca 6. Bellarmino propositas iam pridem convellerim; & à pestibus scenicorum spectaculisque theatralibus d Praefat. thes. ad Acad. Oxon. nostros dehortatus sim, prius quàm tu cathedram istam, ex qua ludios laudas, occupares. Nihil autem esse quamobrem me chartae tuae remorentur, verissimo colligis argumento: Neque enim tanti sunt, inquis. Huc accedit, quod actum agere vetamur proverbio. Et ego, in meis adversus Bellarminum de Samuele praelectionibus, rationes omnes, quibus e Comment. adl b. c. de malef. & mathemat. contendis Samuelem ipsum à pythonissa evocatum, satis superque refutavi. Binis porrò literis, quas ad familiarem tuum de ludis ludionibusque, uti scis, scripsi, ea quae ex Platone, Aristotele, Tertulliano, Augustino, Aquinate, aliisque citas, aut falsò, aut frustra urgeri, planum feci. Quin & ipse, quum fabularum, quales Terentianae sunt, verbis factisque inhonestis & improbis aspersae, actores pronuntias jure improbari, sententiam meam astruis. Nam Vlysses redux, Hippolytus, & Rivales (de quibus amici tui Momus hanc quae nobis est litem excitavit) non minus illis vitiis laborant, quàm nonnullae, immò Rivales multo magis, quàm ulla, Terentii. Itaque licet quaedam f Comment. adl 3. c. de professorib. & med. addas refutatu forsitan non indigna, ut quod mimos asseris habitu muliebri egisse personam viri, lenonis, adulteri, temulenti, ne temulenti in Rivalibus eorum similes videantur; & g Athenae. li. 1 Theophrasti exemplo, qui in schola docens, ita omnes gestus rei, quam tractabat, congruentes adhibuit, ut exerta lingua labra circumlinxerit quum heluonem describeret, histrioniam oratori concludas esse necessariam: tamen cùm hoc redarguat h Instit. Oralib. 1. cap. ●…9 Quintilianus, illud i Saturn. lib. 2 cap. 7 Inducto habitu Sylli, qui velut flagris caesus, etc. Macrobius, alia alii, quorum ad fontes digitum intendi; & operam in minus firmis refellendis, qui firmiora fregerim, à me sumi nolis; obsequor voluntati tuae. Ac eo quidem facio libentius quae cupis, quoniam impetrare à te vicissim aveo, ut, si qua deinceps typis excudes, in iis duarum rerum maiorem habeas rationem; pietatis, & modestiae. Pietatis dico, non tam ob eam causam quod theologorum autoritate in rebus religionis te valde moveri dicas, in rebus morum non valde; quanquam ob eam quoque; nam k Exod. 20. 2. 2. Tim. 3. 16 theologia, ut fidei, sic vitae est magistra: quàm quod histrioniam colendam esse statuis, non tanquam rem honestam, sed tanquam necessariam naturae depravatae & medendis hominum vitiis. Et sicut nec medici à mendacio refugiunt officioso, nec alii ulli (tua haec sunt verba) quod l Lib. 2. de ju. bell. aliâs explicavi; & mendacium res omnium turpissima est tamen: ita hîc medici isti ab his indecoris imitationibus non subtrahent se: Et morbos corporis per spectacula curari scribit Hypocrates. Vbi, cùm m Rom. 3. 8. fides doceat non facienda mala ut eveniant bona, primùm, doleo te, quem fidei causa exulare ferunt, & mendacium rem turpissimam esse confiteri, & emolumenti gratia mentiendum contendere. Deinde, nullos esse qui officiosum mendacium refugiant, nullos, non modò medicos, sed nec alios ullos, nollem dixisses: ne cui videatis memoriam n Sueton. Ner. cap. 29. eius renovare, qui, impurus ipse, persuasissimum habuit neminem hominem pudicum, aut ulla corporis part purum esse; verùm plerosque dissimulare vitium, & calliditate obtegere. Praetereà, quum adiungis te aliâs hoe explicasse, amandas nos ad similem o De jure bell. comment. a. commentationem, in qua id confirmas Heliodori, gravis scilicet autoris, judicio, & isto Poëtae nescio cuius versu, Quum vitia prosunt, peccat qui rectè facit. Qua sententia quid potest fingi flagitiosius, impurius, execrabilius? Et tamen quo magis eam, eiusque scopum, adversus Dei verbum, cuius memini, praemunias, Scito (inquis) in tota hac disputatione non me ullibi dicere mala facienda ut bona adveniant, sed abusum malorum malum non esse, at bonum. Ita, quia mendaciis curantur melancholici, ut ibidem adiicis, quemadmodum hîc & morbos per spectacula curari notas: distinguis, hunc abusum, quem vocas, mendacii bonum esse, non malum; neque verbo Dei disputatione tua contradici. Quo genere argutiolae, stuprum, adulterium, incestum, & quid non? defendere licebit. Nam p Appian. de bell. Syriac. Plutarch. vita Demetr. Antiochus, Seleuci filius, contrahendis incestis cum noverca nuptiis, è gravissimo evasit morbo: ac licet incestus sit malus, nec committendus ut adveniat bonum; tamen abusus malorum (ut tu doces) malus non est, sed bonus. Hujusmodi fundamenta impietatis & nequitiae vehementer peto ne amplius nobis iacias; praesertim in operibus quae typis evulgabis; idque in Academia nostra; & viro clarissimo, insigni ecclesiae lumini, dedicatis; ac ita dedicatis, ut etiam eius filio, lectissimo, & summae spei puero, Tobiae, legenda commendentur. Vides enim quanto cum dedecore nostro fama, à comitiis nostris, quoquoversum perlatura sit, pueros, quibus maximam deberi reverentiam profanus q juven. sat. 14 poëta sensuit, in nostra Academia publicè doceri ut de rebus morum quid theologi sentiant non magnopere curent; neque vereantur mentiri quum erit commodum; immò peccare se putent, si, quum vitia prosunt, rectè faciant; & malorum quidem usum Dei verbo condemnari credant, sed abusum malorum malum esse negent, bonum contendant. Modestiae verò plus in tuis scriptis idcirco desidero, quod r Deut. 22. 5. Deuteronomii locum interpretatus aliter ac theologi, ac patres, ac concilia, quemadmodum declaravi, concludis hoc epiphonemate: Nihil facit lex illa Dei adversus histrioniam; & minus nihilo aliud, quicquid theologi afferunt. Dixeras paulo prius te theologorum autoritate in rebus religionis moveri valde: & scripturarum interpretatio res est religionis. Quanto consultius veterum Romanorum laudatam à M. s Orat. pro Fonteio. Tullio consuetudinem secutus esses, ut arbitrari te diceres etiam quae scires, quàm ut tam fidenter quod nescis affirmares. Nam, quod legem Mosis, Non induetur mulier vest virili, nec vir utetur vest foeminea, interpretaris, contra omnes theologos, non propriè, sed figuratè; non de vestibus, sed de flagitio retectis vestibus commisso: hujus rei probationem, etsi petitione principii tantùm nixam, tamen fidenter item asseris percunctando; Nam additur ibi, inquis, Abominabilis apud Deum est, qui facit haec; quod autem scelus hîc est, ut sit abominatio? Minimè quidem miror, te, quem theologorum autoritas non movet in re religionis, in qua te permultum illis tribuere profiteris verbo, atque adeò in scriptis modò affirmaveras; ita eorum disputationes de histrionia, re nimirum morali, floccifacere, ut quicquid theologi contra eam afferunt, id omne minus nihilo esse asseuêres. Quamquam hoc minus nihilo esse aliquid, familiaris tuus, tametsi tuis istis magnis multisque adiutus, suo fortasse ad meas literas, vel responso docebit, vel silentio. Sed utut haec sese habeant, modestiam quidem certè in pronuntiando maiorem ut adhibeas, praesertim quum de rebus religionis agis, tua te ipsius experientia, in rebus morum, immò juris admonere debet. Qui, cùm affirms, atque ex t Annal. li. 14. Tacito doceas, in theatro publico vel orationes, vel carmina recitare, probrosum Romae visum: satis demonstras te v L. 1. D. de his qui notantur iusam. Praetoris verba, Infamis est qui artis ludicrae pronuntiandive causa in scenam prodierit, nimis sicco pede (quod aiunt) transiisse. Nam, ut concedatur quod Alciato tribuis, artem non facere eum, qui semel, iterum, quid artis facit: at pronuntiandi causa in scenam prodit, qui prodit semel tantùm; ac propterà notam & metuit Laberius, & subierunt de quibus Tacitus, tametsi gratis recitarent. Vale: & meam admonitionem eodem quaeso animo, quo ego munusculum tuum, accipias, id est, grato, candidoque. jul. 10. 1593. IO. RAINOLDO doct. theol. clariss. A. Gentilis S. NEque grato, candidóve animo munusculum meum accepisti, neque quidquam est in literis tuis non longè, lateque positum a veritate. Quid enim tu me impietatis, & nequitiae dicis architectum in quaestione de mendacio officioso, in qua ipsum hoc non intelligis, quid sit officiosum mendacium? Etenim meministi, recensuisse te Petri illud in officiosis, quod contra omne officium fidei, & religionis suit. Quid me impurissimo assimulas principi, si imò reliqui nullum tibi in eadem quaestione scriptorem extra theologos, at alios omnes nec sine theologis mecum facere explicavi? Te ad epistolas meas amando: caeteros ad libros magis, quàm ad commentationes, de iure belli; quos exituros aliquando, praemonui dedicatione prima ad illustrissimum Comitem: &, Deo volente, edam brevi. Tuae enim istiusmodi admonitiones non tenent me, quem aut in ea part non improbant viri in Ecclesia, & republica vestra clarissimi, & laudatissimi. Quid me modestiae laesae facis tu reum, qui nunc ex papistico spiritu arces me à tractatione librorum sacrorum: Et, quod Erastus ait similibus tui, non vides, tentare haec te cis, annos istos septuaginta? Non vides, te cum eo sic agere imperiose, qui Papae imperium contempsit, & exulare patria potuit, & universo regno Papali? Uerissima ferunt, qui haec ferunt: et in his tu vinceris à me, qui pro pietate me obiurgas tamen. Communes sunt sacri libri; & in his, quae spectant ad secundam tabulam, nostri magis, quàm vestri. Sic ut, autoritati theologorum valde nos tribuere hîc, minimè necesse sit. Doce contrarium tu, si potes. Noli calumniari, me pueros docere, ut de rebus morum non magnopere curent, quid sentiant theologi. nam de me, de iurisconsulto scripsi, & re politica. De re religionis quod scripsi, id sentio: & in ea seriò theologorum valde tribuo autoritati. Sed res religionis quid est? Scripturarum interpretatio omnis, aut omnium, non est res religionis. Theologia fidei, & vitae magistra est. sed non omnis vitae. nec omnis pars sermonum Dei in solidum vestra est. ostend diversum, audiam. De rationibus theologorum in quaestione ista de histrionibus sic censui, ut quas contra histriones illos publicè mercenarios, & indignarum fabularum actores habent, eae nihili non sint. Sed quae sunt adversùs omnem histrioniam, eas minus nihilo esse, asserui, & verò etiamnum assero. Pudet earum me, quas Tertullianus, quem unum è nostris iurisconsultis opinantur, adfert adversùs cothurnos tragicos, & fictas scoenicorum personas. Quam etiam obtrudere pro Potentissima videtur, esse nihili, demonstravi. Nec fidenter (ut tu ais) adfirmo, quod nescio: sed tu reprehendis confidentissimè, quae non capis. Audi, audi. Quae in histrionia vitari peccata negotio nullo saepe solent, & possunt semper; ea nihil contra histrioniam faciunt. Sed peccatum illud, si quod est, promiscui vestimentorum usus vitari saepe solet, & semper potest. Ergo. Qui sensus bonarum aliarum legum est prohibentium hunc usum vestium, idem verisimiliter est & bonae legis Dei. Sed aliarum legum sensus nihil facit contra histrioniam. Abomin tio ubi dicitur in Scripturis, ibi peccatum significatur, quod facilè superet flagitia pleraque omnia. Sed hoc vestimentorum non est tale. Ergo ubi dicitur abominatio, ibi hoc peccatum non significatur. Et ubi propria significatio non accipitur, ibi figurata fuerit, vel aliter impropria. at in lege illa Dei propria significatio non accipitur. Quae autem figurata locutio sic exponitur, ut verae sententiae conveniat, & aliis similibus locis stabiliatur, ea benè exposita est. Sed sic exponitur à me figurata illa locutio. Utinam, utinam sic contenderes, & non reijceres argumentis bonis fabulas non bonas semper: quibus illudere pueris potes, nobis non potes. De Augustini sententia, & de sententia Aquinatis ad eundem locum, quas recitavi, & falso, aut frustra urgeri adfirmas, nihil nunc dico, quando tu me ablegas ad scripta tua Anglicana: nisi illud tacendum non sit, ex sententia utriusque adfirmarique, peccatum vestiarium non esse flagitiosissimum. Mea sunt reliqua. Et ea (falleris) non dixi nihili esse, quae tu nunquam refutaveris, si tibi sententiam non pronuncias: sed quae aut te, aut me, aut alium morari ab operibus maioribus tantillum non debeant. Nec morabitur me sanè quaestio haec. Itaque nec à te literas alias de ea expecto, nec expeto. Ego cupiam à te iterum audire, quae à te primo convicia audivi in vita? cupiam illa? priusquam tu cathedram istam, ex qua ludios laudas, occupares. Ego ludios non laudo, sed tu cum convicio ludis genere istoe loquendi laudatissimo, & per suasorias Senecae per suasissimo tibi. Ego cathedram istam non occupo, quam bonis adprobantibus teneo de principis optima, & humanissimae largitate: & in qua sic doceo, ut benignitatis suae reginam serenissimam, judicii reliquos non poeniteat. Magna ego horum nomina defendo in commentatione mea de histrionibus. Si enim Tobias Matthaeus, si alii tot viri gravissimi, & religiosissimi ist haec iuventutis aut exercitamenta, aut ludos adprobarunt, praefecti, & moderatores collegiorum, atque totius lumina academiae: si princeps sanctissima, religionis summum praesidium, & ●…ulici eius, viri spectatissimae sapientiae praesentia sua bonestarunt ludos: ludos tu apellare pestes qui vales? Hic enim de Tertulliano rectissimè, Cur liceat videre, quae facere, flagitium est? Et de nostris in eodem proposito, par est culpa, spectacula edere, & spectare spectacula. Neque bic me damnabit Matthaeus. neque enim sic contaminavi nomen eius, ut putas tu, dedicatione libelli mei: neque filium malis imbui volo, praeceptionibus à lectione commentationis meae. Ne quaeso, ne te Matthaeum inter & me ponas non vocatus. Tota haec tua epistola, praeter maledicta, aut his constat, quae ad te non spectant: aut his, quae non spectant ad me: aut, quae non ad rem, quae in manibus est: aut si quid habet aliud, id unum est, quod tu meae commentationis verba non legisti, aut non expendisti bene. Nec enim scripsi ego, oratori necessariam histrioniam, sed poëmatibus: & ita argumentatus sum, Si eius, quod leve, & importunum est in oratoria, ut est actio, habetur ratio tanquam necessarii: eius etiam, quod leve, & importunum est in poetica, habenda ratio est tanquam necessarii. hoc autem histrionia est. Ergo in poetica habenda sic est ratio histrioniae. Rursus dum docui ex Alciato, eum non facere artem, qui semel, iterum quid artis facit, sic argumentor, Ars notata est edicto. Sed unaproditio non est ars. Ergo una proditio non est notata. Alciato ego illud non tribuo: quanquam est erratum in subnotato capite, quod esse debuit ccv II. De Laberio plus satis. De oratoribus, & vatibus subieci, ut mores illius populi antiquos magis ostenderem: de quibus sanè illi apud Tacitum disceptaebant: & secundum quos visum etiam crimen maiestatis laesae, si magistratus pro concione legisset velcodices (ni malè memini) eorum, quae ad magistratus spectabant tamen. Sed & dixi, in scaena fuisse eos oratores, & vates. Sed & pretii, aut praemii spe, atque fiducia recitationibus incubuisse, persuasum est mihi. Itaque, tribus his convenientibus, censura à patriis moribus, recitatione in scaena, & spe praemii, notati. Itaque falsum tu colligis, notatos semper omnes qui etiam gratis recitarent. An sicco (quod exprobras) sicco nimis pede transi, praetoris edictum, an tu in sicco es? Vale. Rog●… autem, atque obsecro te, si ad aures tuas à me accidit nunc insolens aliquid, ut scias, ad meas etiam accidisse insolentissimum a te: & ad tanta crimina patientem esse non oportere. Et vale iterum. Londini. Idib. jul. Non me continere possum, quin de meis libris bellicis tibi, argutiolam dicenti, quod de abusu mali in commentationibus adnotavi, exscribam Augustini unum hoc, In nuptiis est bonus usus mali, hoc est bonus usus concupiscentiae carnis. Ne quaeso, ne hominem tui studio sissimum sic tractaris pessimè, immeritò. Vitia non sunt, quibus rectè uti licet. hoc Lactantius. Sic possumu●… concupiscentia carnis. sic mendacio, etc. Vale tertiùm. ALBERICO GENTILI, I. C. professori regio, Io. Rainoldus S. REGIUM est audire malè quum bene facias, inquit a Plutare▪ vita Alexander. rex magnus: & beatos pronuntiat discipulos suos b Matt. 5. 11. Christus, quum homines conviciis eos affecerint immerentes, ipsius causa. Quo aequiore animo, benevolentiae erga te meae, & veritatis eorum quae scripsi, mihi conscius, tuam, Alberice, inhumanitatem ac maledicentiam, iniquissimè iustissimam amicissimamque admonitionem vellicantes, fero. Etenim, nec grato candidóve animo munusculum me tuum accepisse asseris: nec quicquam est in meis literis non longè lateque positum à veritate. Quorum alterius nullam certiorem habes probationem, quàm Galatae habuerunt malevolentiae Pauli; c Gal. 4. 1●…. Num inimicus factus sum vobis, dum vera vobis loquor? alterum falsò dici, tuum de mimis aliisque multis silentium est indicio; nisi fortè dubium sit quin ea falsi convicturus fueris, si quidem potuisses, qui, quae non potes, conaris. Atque (ut caetera, quae confuse carpis, ordine percurram) quod ego commemoravi me à pestibus scenicorum spectaculisque theatralibus nostros dehortatum, prius quàm tu cathedram istam, ex qua ludios laudas, occupares; ut hinc commonefieres, tibi, qui sententiam tuam in vulgus editam negabasaegrè ferre me oportere, quòd quaestionem de histrionibus publicè tractasses anteà quàm ego de iis cum altero controversarer, pari ratione ferendam aegrè non esse meam à sententia tua dissensionem, quòd mihi periculosos videri ludios docuissem prius quàm hic tibi locus laudandi eos foret: in eo vociferaris te à me convicia, quae nunquam à quoquam prius, audivisse. Quid ita? Quia cathedram istam (ut ais) non occupas, sed tenes de Principis humanissimae & optimae largitate. Ita, cùm vocabula, tenere, & occupare, idem significent, quemadmodum ex d Trinumm. Plauto, e Aeneid. lib. 6 Virgilio, f Hortens. Cicerone, observavit g De propriet. serm. cap. 4. Nonius; atque hoc sensu ego (quod sanctè affirmare possum) illud usurparim: tu absurdam mihi calumniam affingis, ac si dixissem te professionis locum, non Reginae nostrae beneficio, sed vi, aut fraud, aut nescio quo modo, possidere. Similiter affirmas te ludios non laudare, sed me cum convicio ludere genere istoc loquendi laudatissimo, & per suasorias Senecae persuasissimo mihi. In quo quid istoc loquendi genere significes, fateor, non intelligo: dicturus alioqui ad illud quod è Seneca vitio mihi vertis. Sed errârunt turpiter in laudationis tractatione & nomine h Cic. de orat. lib. 2. & de clar. Orat. Quintilia. li. 3. ca 4. Aphtho. progym. ca de encom. viri eruditi, si tu non laudas ludios: quos poëmatum perfectioni, quos oratoriae facultati, quos & corporum morbis, & animorum vitiis medendis necessarios esse asseuêras. Quaeris, cùm Praefecti collegiorum, viri gravissimi, approbarint ludos; cùm sanctissima Princeps, aulicique eius, viri spectatissimi, sua praesentia honestarint ludos, ludos appellare pestes qui valeam: hîc enim, ut rectissimè Tertullianus, Curio liceat videre, quae facere flagitium est? ita & de nostris dici posse asseris, Par est culpa spectacula edere & spectare. Parem esse culpam non ausim tecum dicere. Nam i De spectac. cap. 17. Tertullianus ibidem, & rectissimè, Cur liceat audire, quae loqui non licet? Neque tamen arbitror aequè peccare eum qui maledico aut scurrae praebet aures, ac maledicum & scurram ipsum. Sed ego ad illorum luminum approbantium spectantiúmve ludos judicia, & exempla, familiari tuo dudum k Epist. 2. respondi: ut, si tibi rursum respondeam, actum agam; quod me facturum negavi. Tu, qui possis ludorum, Rivalibus nostris (ut docui) puriorum, non actores solùm sed etiam autores iure improbatos pronuntiare, ipse videris: cùm scias spectatores fuisse Rivalium sanctissimam Principem caeterosque; & in pari culpa eos, qui spectant talia, cum iis qui edunt, ponas. Nam quod tu Terentii simihumque fabulas verbis factisque inhonestis & improbis aspersas esse scribis, ideoque earum actores iure improbas propter corruprelam & contagionem: idem ego, pestes scenicorum nuncupans, per metaphoram dixi. Et mihi figuratè id exprimere nefas est, quod tibi proprie enuntiare ius est? Affirmanti tibi, non esse tanti tua scripta quae remorari me deberent, assensi. Hic me falliais: nec enim te dixisse ea esse nihili, quae ego nunquam refutavero si mihi sententiam non pronuntiem; sed quae me morari ab operibus maioribus non debeant. Quid ego aliquando refutavero aut refutaverim, iudicent alii aequiores: nec mihi ius ferendae hac de re sententiae assumo, nec tibi defero. Verùm nihili esse tua scripta non dixi: tantum repetii tuum argumentum, Neque enim tanti sunt; ac ex eo intuli, nihil esse (an inde emersittuum nihili?) quamobrem ab opere, quod eram aggressurus, me distinerent tua scripta. De familia liberata, inquit l Ep●…. ad fam. lib. 14. ep. 4. Cicero ad Terentiam, nihil est quod te moveat. Non dicit familiam liberatam esse nihili: sed nihil esse cur res ea moveat Terentiarn; neque enim erat tanti. Nihil esse cur juris interpres historias legat cognoscátve, m De jur. interp. dialo. 5. te ipsum scribere meministi. An quòd sentires eas esse nihili? Absit. Nam & i Hebraeorum, ex ore De●…. sacras divinasque historias eo nomine te complecti indicas. Caeterùm, nihilesse cur iuriusconsultis in illis tempus conterat, significatum voluisti. Porrò, quod adieci te Theophrasti exemplo histrioniam oratori necessariam esse concludere, ais me tuae commentationis verba non legisse, aut non expendisse bene: nec enim te scripsisse oratori necessariamhistrioniam, sed Poëmatibus. Itáne verò? Poëmatibus tantùm, non item oratori? Cur igitur, postquàm dixeras posse mulieris partes à viro, servi à libero, ebrii à sobrio, impuri ab honesto, belluae ab homine, agi aliquantisper utilitatis & ioci causa, haec verba subtexuisti. Oratori sunt omnes illae personae induendae saepius, nec cum dedecore, quia necessariò: * Athenae. li. a referunt Theophrastum & docentem in scholis gestu ornnia dicta comitari solitum, etiam quum de ebrio, similiúe oratio incidisset? Cur, quod de oratore nominatim dicis, non doces quemadmodum ad poëmata referri accommodarique volveris, & non ad oratorem? Cur omnem mentionem exempli Theophrasti, quioratorio genere sermonis usus est, non poëtico, in reprehensione dicti met supprimis? Atque (si permittis ut hoc à te quaeram more censorum) Ex animi tui sententia: nónne quum Athenaeus in eius exemplo, non ebrii qui vino, sed 2 Sic Graeca Athenaei vocem, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, expressit Dalechampius: Natalis Cotues gulonem ●…ddidit. heluonis & gulosi qui cib●… se ingurgitat, mentionem faciat; tu, mutata voce, nominasti ebrium, ut, qui ebriorum egerunt partes in Rivalibus, nihil aliud fecisse quàm fecit Theophrastus, & oratores facere convenit, viderentur? Ad illud quod asserui, non solùm fidei sed etiam vitae magistram esse theologiam; quo magis me optare, ut, qui theologorum autoritate in rebus religionis te valde dixeris moveri, ne adiunxisses, in rebus morum non valde: respondes theologiam magistram esse vitae, sed non omnis vitae, communes esse sacros libros, & in his, quae spectant ad secundam tabulam, vestros magis quàm nostros; ut autoritati theologorum multum vos tribuere hîc, non sit necesse; meque jubes contrarium docere, si possim. Sane, si non possem: tu tamen satis causae, cur mihi sententia tua displiceret, fuisse docuisses. Nam si theologiam magistram vitae iudicas, licet non omnis vitae: debeas ergo multum theologorum autoritati in rebus morum tribuere, tametsi non in rebus morum quibuscunque. Verùm, universae vitae magistram esse theologiam, tum docui, quum asserui, si animadvertisses: notatis ad marginem n Exod. 20. 2. 2. Tim. 3. 16. duobus Scripturae locis. Quorum ex priore id confirmant omnes ecclesiae Christianae: quum in o Eccle. refor. omn. immò & Pont. cathechismo theologis committunt explicationem totius decalogi, non primae solùm tabulae; neque sensum à iurisconsultis peri iubent. Ex posteriore, scriptor tui ordinis, Chassanaeus, à p De jur. bell. comment. 3. te laudatus: quum, q Chassa. catalogue. glor. mund. part. 10. cons. 13. distinguens alias cunctas scientias, in iisque vestram, à nostra, Theologia (inquit) inserit virtutes, docet facienda, & omnia ad salutem pertinentia. 2. ad Timotheum. Quin & r De jur inter. dialog. 6. ipse, quum Baldum, Bartolum, Accursium, commentariis ius universum illustrasse perhibes, doces nullam partem sacrorum librorum (quid enim in Scripturas Baldus, caeterique?) vestri juris esse. Quid? Quum contendis s Dialog. 3. nullam literarum Graecarum peritiam in iurisconsulto requiri; t Dialog. 4. ex dialectica posse plurimum detrimenti & incommodi ad vos venire, nihil boni; v Dialog. 5. ne historias quidem quicquam conferre: nonne sacros libros relinquis nobis integros, ad quorum cognitionem x Aug. de doct. Christ lib. 2. cap 11. Hebraea quoque lingua, non modo Graeca, opus esse; ac y cap. 28. historiam, & z ca 31. & 37 dialecticam plurimum adiuvare, declarat Augustinus? Mihi verò videris hoc animo fuisse, quando, solis libris prudentiae civilis, iurisconsultos a Dialog. 〈◊〉 hortatus ut vacarent; id b Dialog 〈◊〉. & sequent. te de solis justinianeis libris, & horum interpretibus, Accursianis & Alciateis intelligere demonstrasti. Teque existimo, cùm c Dialog. 〈◊〉. ius canonicum Canonistis, ut suam messem assignâris; ac eos à Legistis, à Theologis autem utrosque distinxeris: omnino, sicut illis totum corpus juris, alteris civiles, alteris canonici; ita nobis totum corpus Bibliorum attribuendum censuisse. Quod si iam in aliam sententiam transiisti, & in his quae pertinent ad secundam tabulam Scripturas non tam nostras esse putas quàm vestras: ostende mihi, quaeso, ubi eius tabulae lex ultima, d Exo. 20. 17. Rom. 7. 7. Non concupisces, à iurisconsultis pertractetur; ut, utrae ecclesiae, reformatae, an Pontificiae, saniorem tradant de concupiscentia doctrinam, ex vestris, ad quos huius rei disquisitio magis quàm ad nostros pertinet, intelligam. Quia non sine magna multorum injuria falsò affirmaras, nec medicos, nec alios ullos à mendacio officioso refugere; ut mihi videreris monendus ne memoriam Neronis renovares, qui alios ex se aestimans persuasissimum habuit pudicum esse neminem: impuro Principi te conferri, licet justè, si injustè homines traducas, quod à te factum res docebit, veruntamen indignaris; meque negas intelligere quid sit officiosum mendacium; quip qui e Matt. 26. 7●… Petri illud recensuerim in officiosis, quod contra omne officium fidei & religionis fuit. Equidem ignorantiam hac in re meam tantam esse fateor, ut ne an sit quidem officiosum ullum mendacium cognoscam, immò nec esse credam: ne tu me mireris quid sit id nescire. Sed, ne magni criminis loco mihi exprobres hanc imperitiam, scito Senecam aliosque veterum Romanorum pari inscitia, in re majori, laborasse. Nam, f Sen. controv. li. 4. proo●… quum Aterius (libertinum reum defendens, cu●… obijciebatur quod patroni concubinus fuisset, dixisset, Impudicitia in ingenuo crimen est, in servo necessitas, in liberto officium: res in jocos abiit, Non facis mihi officium; &, Multum ille & hic in officiis versatur; ex eo impudici & obscaeni (inquit Seneca) aliquandiu officiosi vocitati sunt. Ecce tibi distinctio impudicitiae in criminosam, necessariam, & officiosam: cujus pars ultima quid esset, ignorarunt isti; immò nec esse ullam officiosam impudicitiam rati sunt. Itidem mendacium, nescio 3 Sicut ipse putat, off c●…osi mendacii. Aug de menda●…. cap. 8. quis primus, g Bonaventu. Scot etc. Schola in 3. Sentent. dist. 38. Ihom. Aquin. 2a 2●…. quaest. 110. art. 2. quod fit nocumenti causa, perniciosum; quod ludi, jocosum; quod autem utilitatis, officiosum vocavit. Ego verò, qui officium esse id quod fieri debeat sum edoctus, unde nomen ipsum ab efficiendo ductum h Donatus, Paulus apud Pestum. sunt qui notent nullum mendacium officiosum puto: quia i 1. joh. 2. 21. nullum mendacium est ex veritate, ut ait k Tit. 1. 2. Deus mentiri nescius; & l Ephe. 4. 25. deposito mendacio veritatem quisque jubemur loqui proximo suo; m Rom. 3. 7 mendaciumque peccatum esse, etiam quum redundat in Dei gloriam, edocemur. Sed, ut tu mendacium utile commodumque officiosum nominasti, in ista conclusione, n Dejure bell. comment. 2. Si ad utilitatem sermo datus est, ut censet o Lib. 1. Politicor. cap. 2. Aristoteles; quaeso, num improbemus mendacium officiosum? ita illud Petri, qui utilitatis, non joci, aut nocumenti, causa est mentitus, in officiosis recensui: ut & p Matt. 27. 74 periurium eius (ex tua ratione) officiosum dixerim, quia sermo datus est ad utilitatem, ut censet Aristoteles; &, jusiurandum rei servandae, non perdendae, conditum est, inquit q Rudent. Plautus. At Petri mendacium contra omne officium fidei & religionis fuit. Scio. Et omne mendacium (sicut docui) est contra aliquod officium: nullum igitur officiosum. At officii nostri est ut iuvemus alios, dices fortasse: itaque officiosum mendacium te vocare quod hoc officium praestet. Esto. Sed ita & incestum Antiochi officiosum appellaveris. Nam officii quoque nostri est ut nostram ipsorum vitam tueamur. Quare, licet scirem Petri mendacium perniciosum, & esse, & haberi à tractatoribus officiosi mendacii: tamen quia definiunt mendacium officiosum, quod est pro salute & commodo alicuius; aut, quod ordinatur ad aliquod bonum utile; quo intenditur iuvamentum alterius, ut ait r 2●… 2●…. quaest. 100 art. 2. Thomas, vel remotio nocumenti; perniciosum autem, quod fit ex malignitate; aut, quo nocumentum alterius intenditur; tu me doceas velim quemadmodum sibi constent, aut cur debuerim secus de Petro sentire ac scripsi. Neque enim fecit ex malignitate, aut nocumentum alterius (nam cuius tandem?) intendit: sed, timore lapsus, utilitatem, commodum, salutem spectavit suam; & intendit nocumenti, peticuli nempè imminentis si ex Christi discipulis esse agnosceretur, remotionem ac depulsionem. jam iniuriosè & falsò tibi excidisse, nullos improbare officiosum mendacium, tua ipsius confessio testis est. Etenim theologos, quorum, in quaestione de iure divino, unius autoritatem pluris aestimare, quàm centum juris humani peritorum 4 Ad peri●… 〈◊〉 arte à nostris illis legum conditoribus ablegamur. Dejur. inter. dialog. 1. debes; theologos, & quidem eos theologos, quorum 5 Petrum Martyrem. hunc maximum appellas, 6 Thomam Aquinatem. illum summum, 7 justinum Mart. Ambrosium, Augustinun, Calvinum, Zanchium, etc. alios praestantes esse non negabis; theologos plerosque omnes, tametsi solos, mecum facere concedis. Immò hoc quoque falsò & iniuriosè, quod solos theologos; testantur epistolae tuae, ad quas me amandas. quip justum Lipsium, & Tassum, mecum esse, ibi agnoscis. Aristotelem negas de nostro loqui mendacio, quum s Ethicor. li. 4. cap. 7. ait mendacium pierce malum esse & vituperabile, sed de arroganti, vano, versuto, pravo, & id genus, aliis. Atqui de mendacio in genere eum loqui, & proptereà de nostro, tûm ex iis apparet quae de viro bono & veritatis amante subijcit: tûm ex eo ipso quod ait, per se malum; ut te docere potest t Thomas Aquinas, 2a 2●… q. 110 art. 3. is quem summum v De jur. inter. dialog 3. nominas philosopho theologum. Ciceronis dicto, x De off lib. 3. cadit in virum bonum mentiri emolumenti sui causa? nihil minus: opponis alia eius tanquam repugnantia, quae minimè repugnant, ut y De off. lib. 〈◊〉 de Socrate simulatore, dissimulatore Q. Maximo. Nam Socratis ironia, quemadmodum ab z De orat. li. 2 eo tractatur in facetiis, & a lib. 9 cap. 2. Quintilianus docet in figuris, non fuit mendax sermo, sed b Mar. 7. 9 figuratè verax. Quinti autem Maximi disssimulatio celautis erat, & tacentis, ut Cicero exponit: quam nos c jos. 8. 3. laudandam ducimus. Canonici juris professores ex me sciscitaris utrum nominem, an rideam: qui, jacobum à mendacio immunem divinae obtentu concessionis pronuntiatum, in titulo de divortiis legerim. Ego sanè seriò illos nominavi: à d Gloss. & interp. ad c. Super eo. extrade usuris. c. nequis arbitretur. 22. q. 2 quibus tradi video magno consensu, ne pro vita quidem hominis servanda mentiri fas esse. Tu per iocum forsitan id de jacobo citas è titulo de divortiis: nisi furtum, homicidium, adulterium officiosum, aequè ac mendacium, iis probari velis. Namque, ut jacob e Extra. de divort. c. gandemus. illic, à mendacio: sic Israelitae, à furto; Samson, ab homicidio; Patriarchae, & alii viri justi, ab adulterio excusari dicuntur. Plures autores eiusdem sententiae contra te producere magis proclive est quàm necessarium. Quot enim censes extitisse similes illius apud f Satyr. 3. juvenalem, qui mendacium, quod videri posset officiosissimum, inhonestum & à viri boni officio alienum reputans, in haec erumpit verba: Quid Romae faciam●… mentiri nescio: librum, Si malus est, nequeo laudare, & poscere. Atque haud scio an medicorum exempla, melancholicos scilicet mendaciis curantium, aequè falsò g De jure bell. comment. 2. cites in tuam sententiam, ac Q. Maximi. Certè curationes tales quales iudicas, à h Alex. Trall. lib. 1 ca ult. de plumbeo pileo, & serpent. magno medico notatae, in factis positae, non in dictis carent signorum abusu: quem i Petr. Mart. in 1. Sam. 21. 2. Sam. 15. nos in mendacio, uti scis, damnamus. Verùm, cùm habeas poëtas, philosophos, Canonistas, theologos, ac plerosque horum te ipso confitente, tibi repugnantes: ignosce mihi si Neronis cote ad majorem modestiam & cautionem te acuere volui; ne errati hujus toties admonitus, rursum non modò medicos, sed etiam alios omnes, mendacii, k Comment. ad l. 3 c. de prof. & med. rei turpissimae, patrocinio inquinares. Quod eo magis opus fuisse ut facerem jam sentio & cerno, quia, quae mihi maximè omnium capitalis sententia vide batur, nempe, abusum malorum non esse malum, sed bonum: eam tu significas te in libris bellicis denuò defensurum; & ita defensurum, ut ab argutiolae, quam dixi, opprobrio distinctionem tuam vindices Augustini & Lactantii autoritate. Quid igitur? An argumentum meum, quo stuprum, adulterium, incestum, & quodvis facinus ac flagitium ea argutiola defendi posse docui, Augustini etiam atque Lactantii autoritate profligabis? Omnino, tanquam aliquid tale cogitares, postquàm ex eorum altero notasses, bonum in nuptiis esse usum mali concupiscentiae carnis; ex altero, vitia non esse quibus rectè uti licet: Sic, inquis, uti possumus concupiscentia carnis; sic mendacio; etc. Vbi, si particula ista, etc. non referatur ad incestum, & caetera mala à me commemorata; quod (opinor) abominabere; quanquam quae ad alia referatut, non video; sed si ad ea non referatur: argumentum igitur meum ab exemplo Antiochi & novercae, ita solidum & firmum, ut ne attingere quidem illud ausus sis, satis adhuc habet ad mei dicti veritatem de vanitate argutiolae tuae comprobandam. Veruntamen, ut idem Augustini quoque, testis à te ipso & pro te citati, autoritate corroborari scias: lege doctissimam gravissimamque l Contra mendacium, cap. 7. eius disputationem, qua tanquam ex professo tuam de malorum abusu (quem vocas) sententiam refellens, quum ex ea consequens esse demonstrasset, nec falsum testimonium, nec furtum, nec adulterium, nec ullum malum opus malum fore, sed bonum, si bona intenione, bono fine, perpetretur; Quis ista dicat, inquit, nisi qui res humanas omnesque conatur mores legesque subvertere? Clarissimum documentum quàm iniuriosè, ne quid dicam gravius, & Patrum testimonia & Scripturas tractes. Nam m De nupt. & concupisc. li. 1. cap. 8. & lib 2. cap. 21. Augustinus ait eos concupiscentiae malo bene uti qui licitè procreandis liberis operam dant, n Li. 1. cap. 7. ut pede vitiato rectè quis utitur quum ad aliquod bonum claudicando pervenit: nec propter claudicationis malum mala est illa perventio, nec propter illius perventionis bonum bona est claudicatio. Tu bonum esse mali usum sic contendis, ut malum mendacii, ceu claudicationis, malum esse neges, quum eo quis ad bonum pervenit: & eum, cui Deus pedes dedit integros, se mutilare jubes, ut aliquò accedat quò nulli nisi claudo fortasse datur aditus. o Divin. instit. lib. 6. cap. 16 Lactantius, ad errorem quorundam minuendum qui affectus vitia esse concedunt, sed ea mediocriter temperant: assignandi, inquit, fuerunt affectus certis temporibus, & rebus, & locis: ne vitia sint quibus rectè uti licet. Tu vocabulum eius, rectè, ad omnes circumstantias relatum, de quibus p Ethicor. lib. 2. cap. 4. & 6 Aristoteles quum distinguit justa ab iis quae justè fiunt, & virtutis naturam aperit, ad unicam restringis: & mendacia in rectum finem destinata, (quo modo possunt periuria, sacrilegia, blasphemiae,) rectè fieri dicis, eoque non esse vitia. q Rom. 3. 8. Apostolus ait non facienda mala ut eveniant bona: concedens posse bona intentione fieri quae tamen mala sint, ut r 1. Sam. 15. 15. Saul exemplo suo ●…ocuit. Tu mala esse negas quae fiunt ut eveniant bona: eum enim esse abusum malorum; & abusum malorum malum non esse, at bonum. Ac lectorem mones te in tota s De jure bell. comment. 2. illa disputatione non dicere ullibi, mala facienda, ut bona adveniant: in qua tamen laudas istam poëtae antiqui sententiam, Quum vitia prosunt, peccat qui recté facit. Haec si fundamenta non sint nequitiae & impietatis; si te, quem fidei causa exulare ferunt, atque, ut respondes, verè ferunt, deceant; si ●…cclesiae lumini ritè dedicentur, ut illius quasi luce lucentia acceptiora sint in vulgus; denique si nihil contineant veneni, quin pueris haurienda propinari possint: errarim ego qui immeritò, te, ne talibus, talia, sub talis viri nomine deinceps commendes & excudas typis in Academia nostra, rogandum mihi censui. t Horat. epist. lib. 2. ep. 1. Nil intra est oleam, nil extra est in nuce duri. Sed noli asserere me calumniari in eo quod pueros à te doceri dixi ut de rebus morum quid theologi sentiant non magnopere curent. Immò verò, inquis, de me, de jurisconsulto scripsi, & re politica. De te? de jurisconsulto? Atqui, & Petrus, quum v Gal. 2. 12. subduxit sese ac separavit à Gentibus, respondere potuit se respectu sui, judaei, id fecisse: cui tamen Paulus dixit, Cur Gentes cogis judaizare? quòd iis exemplo suo hac in re praeiret; ut tu, nec solùm exemplo, sed etiam verbo, pueris. De politica autem re, quid tibi vis? aut qui hoc ausus dicere? cùm x Comment. ad l. 3. de prof. med. pag 60. verba tua typis excusa sic habeant; Ego ut theologorum autoritate in re religionis valde moveor, ita in re morali, aut politica non valde. Adeóne mei reprehendendi aestu te transversum abripi, ut in eo mihi notam calumniae, in quo calumniaris ipse, inuras? Locum scripturae de vest viri à foemina, foeminae à viro non induenda, quem theologi omnes interpretantur propriè, figuratè à te exponi mirabar eo magis: quod theologorum autoritate in rebus religionis te valde moveri dixeras; & scripturarum interpretatio res est religionis. Hîc tu scripturarum interpretationem omnem, aut omnium, rem religionis esse inficiaris. Omnem, quorsum addis? Nam ne legum quidem interpretatio omnis res est jurisprudentiae: sed ea, cuius gratia, y De jur. inter. dialog. 1. scribis Canonistas, maiorum nostrorum tempore, ad Legistas remisisse auditores suos, si incideret argumentum ex legibus componendum. Et talis est quam nos quaerimus: non qualem adhibeant qui à te ridentur, quòd nunc, benigniori scilicet coelo nati, non modò utriusque juris doctores existunt, sed & Medicinae periti, & Theologiae. Quum autem is inficias Scripturarum omnium interpretationem rem esse religionis, & ad facultatem theologicam spectare: perinde mihi loqui videris, acsi quis diceret, non omnes leges vestras & totum ius civile ab Accursianis aut Alceiateis interpretibus exponi oportere. Sed, ut hoc absurdum tibi visum iri dialogi tui docent: ita & illud debuit. Quod, si mihi non credis, crede z Comment. in 1. epist. ad cor. praefat. Petro Martyri, quem theologorum maximum a De jure bell. comment. 1. appellas: & ab b Orat, ad Acad. Argenti. de studio theolog. eo disce facultatem nostram à vestra distinguere. Ac vide quàm scienter huic scripturae loco, cuius exponendi ius, abiudicatum nobis, tibi vindicas, sensum figuratum & improprium affingas. c Deut. 22. 5. Ne esto instrumentum virile super foeminam, inquit Moses, neque induito vir vestem foeminae: nam abominationi est jehovae Deo tuo quisquis facit ista. Hac lege, Ne induito vir vestem foeminae, tu, per nescio quam figuram orationis, vis nefarium illud scelus denotari, quod Moses d Lev. 18. ver. 22. alibi verbis propriè sumptis damnans abominationem vocavit: &, sicut in Levitico, verbo e Ver. 6. 7. etc. retectionis quasi vestimentorum significantur talia flagitia; ita in lege hac, simili loquendi modo, par crimen proponi. Satis id quidem duriter, ut idem planè sonet induere vestem, ac retegere: & hoccine est quod ais expositionem tuam similibus locis stabiliri? Verùm exponendam ita esse legem confirmas hunc in modum. Vbi significatio propria non accipitur, ibi figurata fuerit, vel aliter impropria. At in lege illa Dei non accipitur propria significatio. Quid ita? Quoniam, inquis, Vbi abominatio dicitur in scripturis, ibi peccatum significatur, quod facilè superet flagitia pleraque omnia. Sed hoc vestimentorum non est tale. Ergo ubi dicitur abominatio, ibi hoc peccatum non significatur. Ac non esse tale hoc vestimentorum, affirmari ais ex sententia f Soliloq. lib. 2 cap. 16. Augustini. Quem, si consideratius animum attendisses ad inexcusabiles in quas ait decidi posse turpitudines hac lege negligenda: vidisses minus causae subesse, quàm putabas, cur pro te citares. Sed unde tandem colligis, ubicunque, id enim sonat tuum ubi, aut nihil agis; ubicunque igitur abominatio in scripturis dicitur, ibi significari peccatum quod facilè flagitia pleraque omnia superet? Nam g Deut. 7. 25. abominationi jehovae esse dicitur argentum & aurum, de quo idôla facta sint: & quicunque insert illum in domum suam, rem inferre dicitur abominabilem. h Deut. 17. 1. Abominationi jehovae esse dicitur bovis aut pecudis ullum habentis vitium immolatio. De quibus, si volveris tibi constare, & sententiam ei quam de i Deut. 22. 5. nostra lege 8 Quod tantum scelus hic est, ut sit abominatio? tulisti, ferre similem, rogabis mirabundus: Quod tantum scelus hîc est, ut sit abominatio, si, cui desunt opes, aliquid è Baalis auro aut argento in usum suum accipiat? si, qui meliorem victimam non habet, claudam, aut caecam Deo offerat? Quod si prudentius & religiosius dices haec meritò pro flagitiosissimis habita fuisse, quod insignis sceleris, id est, impietatis, aut occasiones e●…ant, aut indicia: idem tibi puta responsum de muliebri vestitu in viro, abomina●…di sceleris illecebra & fomite, ut è Neronis Sporo & Heliogabalo k Epist. 1. amicum tuum monui. Relinquitur idcirco sensum legis proprium, non figuratum esse: ut omnes theologi, non ut tu exponis. Quod tuo ●…uoque ipsius aliud agentis dicto comprobatur, dum ais, qui sensus bonarum aliarum legum est prohibentium hunc usum vestium, eundem verisimiliter esse & legis Dei. Nam aliae bonae leges l C. 6. dist. 30. Canonicae, m L. 23. D. de aur. & arg. leg. Civilesque, à teipso notatae, loquuntur de vestitu non figuratè, sed propriè, ut scis & confiteris. Legem autem illam Dei nihil facere adversus histrioniam, quod fidentius aequo à te dictum censui, conaris astruere duobus argumentis. Quorum alterum superiore nixum fundamento, vitiosè adiicit, sensum aliarum bonarum legum nihil facere contra histrioniam; ergo neque bonae ilhus legis Dei. Nam primò lex canonica, à n Sext. synod. in Trull. can. 62. multò ampliore synodo sancita, quàm o Synod. Gan. can. 13. Gratian. c. 6. dist. 30. quae à te notatur, vetat in ludicris eum usum vestium, ut p Epist. 1. & 2 ad doct. Gag. alibi declaravi. Civili verò jure idem interdictum existimasse videtur q Soliloq. lib. 2. cap. 16. Augustinus, ad histriones accommodans quod jure infames & intestabiles haberi, qui muliebri habitu se ostentant, dixerat. Atque adeò r Orat. ad Grae. Tatiani verba reprehendentis vestem muliebrem in scenicis actoribus, ut indignam viro, s Ad jul. Pau. recept. sentent. lib. 3. tit. 6. Cujacius arbitratus est cum vestrorum jurisconsultorum sensu congruere, & post Cuiacium t Ad l. 23. D. de aur. & arg. leg. Gothofredus. Deinde, etiamsi aliae bonae leges diuturniorem & graviorem abusum tantummodò vetarent, quem v Tacit. anna. lib. 3. ne lege quidem coerceri voluit Tiberius Imperator: tamen lege Dei, multo meliore, notari possent & coargui, quilevius, quomodocunque, & quantulocunque tempore, in ea re delinquerent. Nam x L. 3. §. 18. D. de acquir. vel amitt. possess. aliae bonae leges negant furtum animo posse committi, sine contrectatione: y Matt. 5. 28. lex Dei vel affectu solo flagitia perpetrari asserit. Itaque errarunt z Antiquit. jud lib. 12. cap. 13. josephus & a In Psa. 66. 18. David Kimhi, post b Mat. 5. 20. Scribas & Pharisaeos, qui malos animi motus & cogitationes peccata non putarunt, nisi in opus exeant: quod de legibus hominum, non Dei, si dixissent, nequaquam lapsi essent. Ac ipse verisimiliter tantùm, non certò eundem legis Dei atque aliarum sensum esse ais. Quamobrem adhuc salva est assertio mea, consultius te facturum fuisse, si modestius, de re quam opinaris, non scis, pronuntiasses. At altero argumento iugulasti hominem. Nam quae in histrionia (inquis) vitari peccata negotio nullo saepe solent, & possunt semper: ea nihil contra histrioniam faciunt. Sed peccatum illud, si quod est, promiscui vestimentorum usus, vitari saepe solet, & semper potest. Ergo. Quid Ergo? Cur reliquum non attexis, Ergo nihil facit lex illa Dei adversus histrioniam? Hoc enim erat concludendum. Ac utinam, quod assumis vetari saepe solere promiscuum usum vestium, eius rei testis fuisset nostra scena: viamque meliorem, qua vitari semper possit, ostēdisses quàm mimas & scenicas inter histriones introducendo: quod dedecus foeminei pudoris ac verecundiaepeius esset paenè remedium ipso malo. Sed cuiusmodi syllogismo causam tuam fulcias, agnosce ex consimili, ad aliam Dei legem, c Deut. 12. 3●… nequis liberos suos idôlis sacrificet. Quae in idololatria vitari peccata negotio nullo saepe solent, & possunt semper: ea nihil faciunt contra idololatriam. Sed peccatum illud comburendorum filiorum & filiarum, vitari saepèsolet, & semper potest. Ergo ninil facit lex illa Dei adversus idololatriam. Propositiogermana est & gemina tuae: non lac similius lacti. Assumptio, luce clarior è varia Papistarum idololatria. Conclusio tamen falsa videtur omnibus theologis: quorum hac in causa, ad primam legis tabulam spectant, autoritas, per d 2. Re. 23. 10 Psal. 106. 39 jer. 19 5. Prophetas saltem, assensum tuum impetrabit. Quapropter, cùm ex veris nil nisi verum consequatur, restat falsam esse propositionem: & posse peccatum in idololatriam hanc aut illam cadere, quod in omne tamen idololatriae genus non cadat. Ego quidem certè hoc judicio fui, quum ob latriam imaginibus Christi & crucis delatam, Papistas arguerem idololatriae. Nam ipsi saepe solent idololatriam committere, & semper possunt, absque imaginum cultu. Et tu, qui histriones mimas habere & scenicas scripsisti, videris aliquatenus idem sensisse. Cur enim non aequè putemus histrioniam, etsi non omnem histrioniam, perstrictam à e De spect. cap. 17. Tertulliano mimas notante: ac tu asseruisti histriones mimas habere & scenicas, etsi non omnes histriones habeant? Sed quia iam hoc tibi discrimen ita displicet, ut me confidentissimè reprehendere, quae non capio, proptereà affirms: docebis nos fortasse, exemplum f 2. Reg. 18. 4 Ezekiae; serpentem aeneum confringentis quòd filii Israelis incensum ei adolerent, nihil facere contra Pontificiorum, g Missal. Rom. à Pio Quint. reformat. tit. de ritib. celebr. Miss. qui incensum adolent rebus similibus, idololatriam; quoniam est quaedam idololatria, puta, liberos suos idólis immolantium, quae hoc peccato vacet. Quin & h jer. 19 5. jeremiam, istud judaeorum peccatum in Baale colendo increpantem, nihil adversus idololatriam eorum dixisse: quoniam Papistae, i Brevia. Rom. in festis inve. & exalt. S. crucis. invocantes ligneam crucem ut Deum, & k Concil. Trident. Sess. 13 cap. 5. sacramento cultum latriae exhibentes, committunt idololatriam, nec tamen suos cremant liberos. An quaestuariorum item histrionum, quorum contagio & lues apud nos nuper est grassata, negabis actiones histrioniae nomine traduci oportere, quoniam exerceri potest histrionia, ut l Cic. orat. pro. Q. Ros. com. tandem à Roscio, sine quaestu? Luculenter verò probasti scholasticos, à quibus apud nos fabulae aguntur, nullam labem contrahere, tametsi contra legem muliebribus vestiantur, ut loquitur m De spect. cap. 23. Tertullianus: quoniam ostendisti posse foeminarum partes à mimis, scenicisque foeminis, sine viris, agi. Perinde quasi dixisses nullam labem contrahi ab n Pro. 23. 30. immorantibus apud vinum, nec iis o joel. 1. 5. ebrietatem meritò exprobrari; quoniam esse potest p Esai. 28. 7. & 29. 9 ebrietas sine vino. Atque hoc modo rationem illam, quam Tertullianus obtrudere videtur pro potentissima, nihili esse demonstrasti. Porrò, minus nihilo esse quicquid aliud adversus histrioniam afferunt theologi, quod mihi minus item modestè visus es asserere, tu contrà rursum asseris: & demonstras etiam, opinor; sed quemadmodum? Pudet me, inquis, earum rationum quas Tertullianus affert adversus cothurnos tragicos & fictas scenicorum personas. Age. Sint q De spect. cap. 23. eius rationes leves contra histrionicum istum ornatum: rem adeò putidam & insulsam, ut nullas rationes ad eam explodendam desiderarint nostri, sed sua sponte rejecerint. Etenim cothurnis (cuiusmodicunque demum id genus fuit calceorum) efferebantur tragoedi quo altiores apparerent; & fictis ad eorum, quos agebant, speciem personis tegebantur: ut r Horat. satyr. lib. 1. sat. 5. Sarmenti scurrae jocus in Messium docet; quem immani corporis proceritate, & foeda cicatrice in facie deformem, rogabat Sarmentus ut Polyphemum ageret; Nil illi larya aut tragicis opus esse cothurnis. E nostris autem nemo in scenam cothurnatus & larvatus prodit. Quid igitur? An quia te pudet rationem quas Tertullianus affert adversus ineptias histrionicas, quarum tragoedos & scenicos nostros pudet: idcirco minus nihilo est quicquid aliud adversus histrioniam Tertullianus affert? Ac, ut Tertullianus, unus è multis, hallucinatus sit: idcirco minus nihilo est quicquid aliud adversus histrioniam afferunt theologi? Quanto te magis pudêre debuit conviciorum, quae in me effundis; quia, ut modestiam in pronuntiando maiorem adhiberes, praesertim quum de rebus religionis agis, amicè te admonui? Sed praeclarè s Livi. lib. 34. Cato: Nae simul pudere, quod non oportet, caeperit; quod oportet, non pudebit.. Me namque ex Papistico spiritu à librorum sacrorum tractatione te arcere ais: & haec cis annos istos septuaginta, quod Erastus ait similibus mei, tentare: & imperiosè cum eo sic agere, qui Papae imperium contempsit, & exulare patria potuit, & universo regno Papali: atque adeò, etiamsi in his à te vincar, obiurgare tamen te pro pietate: denique argumentis uti eiusmodi, quibus illudere pueris possim, vobis non possim. Bene factum, quod te ipsum longè à Papismo abbess profiteris. Nam ego multo minus te arceo à sacrorum librorum tractatione, quàm tu jurisconsultum, cui t De jur. inter. dialog. 1. praecipis, ut nihil nisi ex Theologi praescripto enuntiet de re Theologica; & solis prudentiae civilis libris vacet, reliquis omnibus valedicat. v De excom. mun prae●…ad lect. Erastus, notans quosdam quos ait petivisse ut alii professores iuberentur à Theologorum fchola abstinere; Si hoc fuisset, inquit, ante sexaginta annos petitum, tolerabile videri poterat. Ego, ex animo tibi exoptans ut scholam Theologorum magis frequentes, adhortor tantùm ut memineris, quod ante mill annos x Orat. 26. de ord●… confer. in disputat. Gregorius Nazianzenus observandum tradidit, idque ex y 1 Cor. 12. 29. Apostolo, non omnia Christi membra iisdem facultatibus, & donis esse praedita. Imperiosè autem quid à me factum? Nisi ut z 2. Tim. 2. 15. arguere cum omni imperio ministros Dei decet. Neque put●…am idcirco non licere mihi te arguere, quod in nonnullis rebus me anteas. Nam David item praestitit Nathani, Petrus Paulo: a 2. San. 12. 7. Davidem tamen Nathan, & b Gal. 2. 11. Petrum Paulus reprehendit. Obiurgandi verbum haud scio an asperius sit, quàm mea meruit admonitio. Quanquam obiurgandos etiam amicos, non monendos solùm, autor est c De amicit. Cicero: & ego te amicum meum opinabar; condona mihi hunc errorem. Argumenta verò mea qualia sint, utrum ad falsum, an verum; malum, an bonum; cum viris, tûm pueris persuadendum facta: judicium penes arbitros aequiores esto. A quibus animadverti & expendi velim epiphonematuum, post tua argumenta (quae nostris, uti spero, ne pueris quid●…m illudent) his subtextum verbis: utinam, utinam sic contenderes, & non reiiceres argumentis bonis fabulas non bonas semper. Ecce, argumenta mea esse bona confiteris ipse, accusator meus; & tua, è contrario, mala. Nimirum lingua lapso (ut est in 9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Graecorum proverbio) verum dicit. Postremò, quia d L. 1. D. de his qui not. infam. verba edicti Praetoris, sic à te exposita, ac si unius tantùm rei, nempe artis ludicrae, non duarum, id est artis ludicrae, pronuntiándiue, disjuncte, mentionem facerent, nimis sicco pede te dixi transiisse: quaeris, an ego in sicco sim, qui hoc dixerim. In sicco sanè adhuc: & aqua tibi haeret, qua, ne in sicco essem, conatus es me inundare. Nam ad testimonium Alciati, à te citatum, artem non facere eum qui semel, iterum, quid artis facit; respondi, ut concedatur hoc quod illi tribuis, pronuntiandi tamen causa in scenam prodire qui prodit semel tantùm: ac proptereà e Macrob. Saturn. l. 2. c. 7 Laberium, quo primùm die prodiit inustam sibi notam infamiae censuisse; & probrosum visum Romanis (apud f Annal. li. 14 Tacitum) vel orationes, vel carmina ita recitare, licet id gratis facerent. Cuius responsionis ut partes, tuo more, quascunque potes carpas, negas te tribuere illud Alciato: haberi enim apud g Ad c. 207. D. de verbo. sign. eum, quamvis in h Ad. c. 66. subnotato capite sit erratum. Ergone tribuere duntaxat two dicendi sunt qui falsò tribuunt: non item qui verè? Profectò tu non i L. 10. D. de instit. & jur. tribuis suum cuique, qui tribuendi verbo significationem istam solam tribuis. Ego verò, quia capite à te subnotato illud non reperi, & posse tamen alibi extare cogitavi: verbo tribuendi de industria usus sum, ut vacarem culpa, seu verè citasses, seu falsò. Quanquam iam ex tui errati correctione falsò citatum esse deprehendo: teque interpolasse locum Alciati inserta voce, Iterum; cùm ille tantùm dixerit, 1 Qui semel emit pannos ut venderet, mercator non est: quia in eo deficit exercitium. Qui semel quid artis facit. Et quorsum (narra mihi) adjecisti hoc, Iterum? An quia te videbas non satis probaturum nullam à ludionibus nostris labem contrahi, si eos tantummodò artis faciendae nota liberares, qui semel quid artis facerent? Quin igitur Alciatum scripsisti affirmare, artem non facere eum qui semel, iterum, tertiò, quid artis facit? Nam potuisti eodem iure: & hoc, ad assequendum quod volebas, parum est. At eos saltem qui semel prodeunt, non amplius, immunes esse notae, docuisse te ais ex Alciato, sic argumentando: Ars notata est edicto; Sed una proditio non est ars; Ergo una proditio non est notata. At haec argumentatio vide ne similiter statuminetur, ac si quis ita disputaret: Faemina continetur appellatione hominis; Sed masculus non est foemina; Ergo masculus non continetur appellatione hominis. Nam, ut k L. 152. D. de verb sign. foemina quidem appellatione hominis continetur, sed non tantùm foemina: ita ars notata est edicto Praetoris, sed non tantùm ars. Quod anim advertendum tibi proposui, quàm planissimè potui in tanta brevitate, ex Praetoris verbis, pronuntiándive causa, cum eo comparatis quod è Tacito citâras, de orationibus carminibusque in scena recitatis. Et, quoniam non distinguit Tacitus mercenarios recitatores à gratuitis, proptereà probrosum Romae visum dixi tametsi gratis recitarent: ut tu, qui Praetorem nullos vis notasse nisi quaestuarios, judicum Romanorum hac 2 bloquentiae primas nemo tulit: sed victorem esse Caesarem pronuntiatum. Tacit. annal. lib. 14. in part etiam à tua commentatione dissidere attenderes. Tu contrà affirmas persuasum esse tibi incubuisse illos, de quibus Tacitus loquitur, recitationibus, pretii aut praemii spe atque fiducia: itaque falsum me colligere, qui notatos dicam tametsi gratis recitarent. Noe tu non sine causa syllogismalem (quam l De jur. inter. dialog. 4. appellas) altercationem à iurisprudentia tua reiecisti, si ea ratione hoc potes lucrifacere ut talla enthymemata, Persuasum est mihi te colligere falsum, Itaque falsum colligis, vim idonearum probationum habeant. Sed quicquid tibi sit persuasum, historia testatur eiusmodi recitatorum, quales 〈◊〉 not abant quorum verba refert Tacitus, nonnullos extitisse qui recitarent gratis: atque hos eorum judicio notatos, à quibus notabantur quicunque in scena recitarent. Tales enim erant & orationum & carminum recitatores, quorum nemo voluit 3 Orationis carminisque Latini coronam, de qu●… honestissimus quisque contenderat, ipsorum concessu concessam sibi recepit Nero. Sueton Ner. cap. 12. coronam accipere, 4 Carmen in scena recitat. Tacit. ann. lib. 16. licet de ea contendissent. Talis erat 〈◊〉 carminum recitator Nero: quem 5 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. mercede quicquam facere dedignatum affirmat, qui 6 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hoc narrat, m Xiphi. epit. Dio. Quid, quod ipse addis visum etiam crimen maiestatis laesae, secundum antiquos Romanorum mores, si magistratus pro concione legisset vel codices (ni malè méministi) eorum quae ad magistratus spectabant tamen. Dissimile hoc quidem: & memoriae tuae lapsui fortassis ex part tribuendum. Nec enim maiestatis laesae accusatus est 7 C. Cornelius. Cic. orat. pro Vatin. Asco. Pedia. in Cice. orat. pro corn. Ant. August. de legib. cap. 12 & lege Corn. majest. tribunus plebis, quòd pro concione codicem legisset; tanquam hoc perinde turpe, immò turpius multo, habitum esset, quàm orationes aut carmina in scena recitare: sed quòd, adversus intercessionem sui collegae, codicem, quem scriba legere prohibitus est, legisset ipse, itaque violasset legem Corneliam maiestatis. Caeterum, si antiquis Romanorum moribus tanti criminis reum fuisse magistratum, qui vel codices rerum, ad magistratus spectantium pro concione legisset, persuasum habes: fierine potest ut persuasum habeas non iisdem moribus probrosam Romae visam vel gratuitam carminum orationúmve in scena recitationem? Nisi fortè dices te existimare magistratus eos tantum modò maiestatis crimen admisisse, qui mercedis gratia codicem legerent pro concione Quod. mihi persuaderi prorsus non potest persuasum tibi esse. Ita postulanti tibi ut eorum, quae inficiaris, quaedam, si possem, docerem & ostenderem; non in illis solùm, sed etiam in caeteris hoc gratificari studui, ut potui. Maturius id facturus, nisi tu, omissa librorum & capitum, in quibus Augustini & aliorum quos citas verba scripta sint, indicatione, coëgisses me tempus terere perlegendis nonnullis libris integris, quo loca, quibus certò innixus videreris, exploratè cognita compertaque haberem. Auxit meam huius officii praestandi cupiditatem & desiderium tua sententia, sententiam non dissimilem n Hieronymi, epi. 61. epi. 1. advers. ere. Io. jeros. gravioris autoris in memoriam revocans, ad tanta crimina patientem esse non oportere. Quare, quod mihi obiicis concludens, te à me tractari pessimè immeritò, hominem mei studiosissimum, crimen gravissimum omnium, si verum, non modò in amore non respondere, sed etiam malefactis benevolentiam rependere: id immeritò mihi à te obiectum esse, tua ipsius voce convinco, & concludo. Nam, quum per epistolam olim me moneres eorum quae putabas perperam asserta in meis praelectionibus ad primum Maccabaeorum, his verbis usus es: Aequi bonique haec consules? Certè ea ipsa sunt, quae ego in donis amicorum pretiosissima ducerem; & utinam mihi aliquis contigisset aliquando, qui in meis scriptis praestare tantum voluisset. Vides ne ut ipse te à me non pessimè, sed optimè tractatum; neque iniuriis affectum, sed donis; & iis non vulgaribus, sed longè pretiosissimis, carissimis, optatissimis, esse fatearis? Quod si plus aloës quam mellis medicamentis meis admiscui, vel cum acrimonia potius maiore tanquam ad secandum & urendum accessi: tamen hoc quoque à o Cic. de off. lib. 1. prudente morum magistro scis probari, quum nulla reperitur alia medicina. Ac ego, medicinam aliam saepiuscule in te expertus frustra, hanc unam fuperesse salutarem duxi; alioqui desperandum. Praesertim cùm rursus in pristinum de mendacio malè officioso morbum recidisses: idque ita graviter & periculosè, ut novo typis excuso opere defenderes, quod in vetere (liberámne amici vocem feres?) pessimè affirmâras. Quantum mutatus ab illo, qui mihi esse videbare, quum in epistola quadam hac de re scripta concluderes hoc modo: In controversia hac sustinere, quantum ad theologos pertinet, deinceps assensionem, in animo est. tibi scilicet, ut debeo, plurimum tribuo, qui me in contrariam vocas sententiam: & cum Tertulliano tandem malim sapere in Scripturis sanctis minus, quàm contra.] Atque in alia, ad meam precationem, Qui Petrum erexit ut agnosceret peccatum quum mendacio officioso negasset se novisse Christum, te, ut ipsum rectè fecisse sentias, excitet, neque tibi verbis defendendum putes quod piis factis improbaris; respondisti his verbis: Ecce, in fine versor tuarum literarum, nec tuam admonitionem, nec precationem tuam (mihi crede) sine ingenti affectu animi lego; dixerim nec sine lacrymis, certè cordis: Deus me dirigat in viam suam, & ab omni errore sartum tectumque servet, eo maximè, qui animam spectat, & veram pietatem infuscat.] Et qua ego tandem, te, qui aliquando hoc animo fuisti, oratione compellem, nisi qua ecclesiae Ephesinae angelum compellavit Christus? p Apoc. 2. 〈◊〉. Memor esto unde excideris, & resipisce, & priora opera facito. Vale. Aug. 5. FINIS.