A BRIEF SHOW Of the false Wares packed together in the named, Apology of the Church of England.  
By john Rastell M. of Art and student of Divinity.  
Qui nititur Mendacijs, hic pascit ventos, Idem Prob●●● autem ipse sequitur aves volantes.  
He that leaneth to lies, feedeth the winds:  
& the self same followeth the fleeing birds.  
LOVANII, Apud joannem Foulerum. Anno D. 1567.   

REgi●e Maiestatis Privilegio concessum est joanni Rastello Sacrae Theologiae studioso, ut librum inscriptum, A brief show of the false Ware, etc. per Typographum aliquem iuratum imprimere, ac impunè distrahere liceat.  
Datum Antuerpiae, die 9 julij▪ 1567. Subsig. Prats.   

To the Reader.  
THE Church of England (Gentle Reader) was never so defended, is now, we hear say, it is like to be. For M. jewel, being the Scribe, or Secretary, and the Superintendentes with others, being coadjutors and gatherers: what is it so little, that they so many will not find out, or what is it so much, that he alone will not put in? By likelihood then, the Book will be great: marry whether it will be so good or no, therein is the question. For trial of which, I have gathered into certain chapters, the chiefest matters (as it seemed to me) by which their charge might be set before them, and to which, the account that they can make, might be considered, whether it will answer.  
The first of which, containeth the false and naughty Arguments of the english Apology.  
The seco●d, The Absurdities thereof.  
The third, The lies in telling of Stories.  
The fourth, the lies upon the Ancient Fathers.  
The fifth, the lies upon counsels.  
The sixth, the lies upon the Scriptures.  
The seventh, the flat lies.  
The eighth, the Rhetorical lies.  
The ninth, the Examples of facing a lie.  
The 10. the Problematical lies.  
The 11. a blasphemous lie.  
The 12. Contradictions.  
The 13. False Interpretations.  
These be the sums of the debt which they are in, to God, and to the world: which if they can discharge with arownd and true answer, as it were a good and lawful payment, ●●ey may be the better trusted hereafter: but because such Merchants of this world are exceeding crafty and false in their mysteries, therefore (Gentle Reader) before thou deal with the Gross ●Booke, weigh any of these small pieces which I have gathered for thee, out of the confutation of the Apology of their Church in England, made by D. Harding, and consider with the Balance of Indifferency, whether this Answer of theirs that is coming, be able to make any of them good or no. So shalt thou save a great deal of labour, which else the reading and examining of the whole book would cost thee: and I shall think my labour well bestowed, which doth by any way bring thee a commodity.  
Far well.  
From Lovan. Augusti. 21.   

Liber hic de Mendacijs Apologiae falsò nominatae Ecclesiae Anglicanae lectus est & approbatus à viris anglici idiomatis & Theologiae peritissimis, quibus tutò credendum esse iudi●●: quamobrem etiam securè imprimi & ewlgari potest.  
Cunerus Petri, P. S. Petri Lovanij 7. julij. Anno. 1567.   

A BRIEF SHOW OF CERTAIN NAVGH● tie and false Arguments made in the Apology of the Church of England.  

The first Chapter.  
Truth doth readily find enemies and slanderers, 
Apolog.  
Maior.   
We find enemies and slanderers. 
Minor.   
Ergo we ought to bear it quietly, 
Concl●●ion  if we be at this day tormented, only because we teach the truth.  
TO show the faults of this argument, 
Confut. p. 6. 7. ●. 9  by rules of logic, it were an easy matter: but it would not be so easily understanded of the common Reader. For his sake therefore, leaving the mode and figure of a logical answer, I will show the Absurdity thereof, in that it may be made to serve for the Catholics also, their Adversaries. For, Truth doth readily find enemies and slanderers: But the Catholics at this day, find enemies and slanderers, Ergo they have the truth. That the Catholics have presently their enemies and slanderers, it may be proved by the whole Book of Acts and monuments, by M. jewels Sermon and Reply, by this very Apology of the Church of England. By all which it appeareth, how sharply the Protestants are set, against the Catholics, and how little regard they have what they writ or report of them. Ergo if they which find enemies have the truth: wherefore then are so many Catholics, either in prison within the Realm, either in hatred of their own Countrymen, out of the Realm? And if the having of enemies proveth not, the parties that are hated to be of a good and sincere religion: it concludeth nothing for the Protestant's, though they show themselves to have enemies. Yea it maketh against them, that by likelihood their doctrine should not be good and credible: because they now the Professors of it, have all the favour that may be showed in England. The right form of this argument would be this.  
Truth findeth Enemies:  
We have the truth:  
Ergo we find enemies.  
But now the second proposition can never be proved.  
So many thousands of our brethren have in these last twenty years suffered most painful torments: 
Apolog.   
Princes desirous to restarine the Gospel have nothing prevailed:  
The whole world now doth begin to open their eyes to behold the light:  
Ergo our cause already is sufficiently declared and defended.  
Death for a religion doth not make a Martyr, 
Confut. .13. to the first.  As in example of servetus the Arrian, whom Calvin procured to be burned at Geneva▪ and of joan of Kent that filth. And the Anabaptists, which to this day suffer death willingly.  
So they do make laws against thieves, 
to the second.  and yet the gallows are daily occupied. So do weeds arise and grow, be the ground or garden never so well tilled. Yet neither thieves nor weeds may crack of it, that not withstanding the laws or diligence of men, they continued still and maintain their race.  
The more like it is, that Antichrist is at hand. For concerning the Gospel of Christ, it doth not begin now to be known: but every day more and more it should wax more obscure toward th'end of the world.  
This Gospel therefore, which, to behold, the whole world now doth begin to open their eyes, cometh so late, that we must look now for the wicked man to be revealed, 
2. The●. 2.  and Charity to wax cold, and faith not to be found perchance upon the earth: 
Math. 24 Luc. 18.  and not to have any increase of faith, hope or Charity, to be brought into the world.  
Our religion is come at length even to kings courts and palaces: 
apology.  Ergo God himself doth strongly fight in our quarrel.  
It came not thither, 
Confut. 15.  before it was sent for. Neither do you properly turn princes to your Religion, but Princes turn all your preachings, and procedings, to serve their affections. So was Peter Martyr at his first coming to England a Lutheran only, but perceiving afterwards, the Superior powers to fancy an other way, he followed also them with all the wit he had, and became an open Zwinglian. Again, you do well to resort to Prince's palaces for argument, because in deed thence is your chiefest aid and secure.  
Let the Scripture (saith S. Ambrose) be asked the question, 
apollo.  let the apostles be asked, let the Prophets be asked.  
Ergo we must use no other force, but only Scriptures.  
It followeth not: 
Confu●tion. 3.  for after all them, I may ask also, what S. Ambrose himself thinketh upon the Scripture, Apostle, or Prophet. And where as by many means, one in order above an other, a way is prepared to any knowledge, the using of the chiefest, must not exclude all the inferior from their places. Again, why hath M. jewel stuffed his Reply with so many allegations of phrases of doctors: and left it so void of express Scripture, if no other force, but of scriptures, is to be used?  
Christ is ever present, 
Apolog.  to assist his Church.  
Christ needeth not any man, to supply his room.  
No one mortal creature is able to comprehend in his mind all the parts of the world.  
Ergo there neither is, neither can be any one man, which may have the whole superiority in the Church.  
He is present in deed by his power, 
Conf. 45. To the first.  and truth, and grace: but to the external eye he is not present, and sensible men require a sensible Governor.  
Christ needeth nothing, 
To the. 2.  yet for because of his wisdom and mercy, he communicateh his Office and Glory with men, and doth not all things immediately by himself: although he be of such almightiness, that he needeth no help.  
It is as false as God is true. 
To the 3.  For in deed the powers of the mind (as the will, memory, and understanding) are by nature of that making and capacity, that nothing under God himself can fully replenish it. Yet if one man alone were not able by himself to comprehend in his mind all the parts of the world, nevertheless by his officers he may do it, though the whole were as big again as it is.  
Last of all, to stop your mouths with fear, whom reason doth not persuade ye may, by these arguments, pluck the Crown from the heads of all Kings and Princes. For God's providence (you may say) is over the whole world. And he needeth no helper, And no Prince is able to comprehend in his mind all parts of his Dominion, how little so ever it be.  
The Bishop of Rome doth not his duty, 
apollo.  as he ought to do. Ergo, we say he ought not once to be called a Bishop, or so much as an elder.  
The person and the office which any person beareth are distinct things: 
Confutation. 5●.  And the vocation of Bishop or King is to be honoured, though the conditions of them should be contemptible for their lust and idleness. Servants are commanded to obey their masters, not only when they be good and modest, 
1 Pet. 2.  but also if they be froward. And further, what are you that judge, I will not say, an other man's servant, but your own lawful head and bishop? And if you refuse his Authority for your part: why judge you yet the Chief bishop of the Catholics? To be short, if it shallbe considered, how grievous the Heretics, and Turks, and unruly Christians, are to the Church of Christ, and what hath been done by Popes even in our days, for calling of a general Council, and for defence of Christendom against the Infidels, and for suppressing of evil manners: there willbe little occasion left, to reprove the Pope for not doing his duty.  
A wonderful uncleanness of life & manners hath followed upon the law, 
Apolog.  which commanded priests to live single. Ergo marriage is holy & honourable in all sorts & states of people, & it was no good law which did forbid priests to marry.  
This disproveth not the law, 
Coufntation 78.  but it betrayeth the foul and corrupt inclinations of them, for whom the law was made. Without the Law, sin was dead (sayeth the Apostle) And I had not known (sayeth he) what concupiscence had been, 
Rom. 7.  except the law had said, thou shalt not lust. So is it, in the acts of parliament, which are wisely and profitably made for taking away the excess and costliness of apparel. For, Thou shalt wear no silk (saith the law) except thou mayst spend yearly by office or lands a certain some. And by this, one would think, that poor serving men should not spend so much in their apparel, as before they did. Less robbing then and filching must follow, and the common wealth shall be quiet and rich. But the event declareth, that it is bestowed now upon the making of the cote, that which is diminished in the silk that should go to the cote. And superfluities are not diminished, but increased, and the matter of them is not taken away, but the form is altered. Do not therefore put any fault in an holy or goo● law, if sin▪ by occasion thereof should en●●crease and multiply: but reproveth the coneupiscence and lust of them, which call not for the grace of God, that they may be able to keep the good law.  
We affirm, 
Apolog  that Christ doth truly & presently give his own self in his Sacraments. Ergo we mean not to abase the lords supper.  
This doth not follow. 
Con●ut. 1●9.  For whereas the mind of Christ is, that in the open house which he keepeth, his own precious body should be given under form of bread, and that so freely and bountifully, that come who would, either friend or foe, he would not change his word and gift for that matter (although he would have a saying unto them, that by their unworthy receiving did frustrate his gracious benefit) he that in this case saith, that Christ giveth him self truly, really▪ substantially▪ yea bodily and corporally unto them that do receive him by faith and charity, he speaketh undoubtedly a great and a true word. But if he add, that to them that have no faith and charity he doth not give his true and real body, he abuseth the excellency and worthiness of the provision that is made. For the gift were not certain, and perfect, and consisting of the givers own power only and goodness, if the faith of the receiver should either make it, or mar it. You therefore that can speak excellently and substantially of the sacrament, do for all that abase Christ's bountefulnes, because ye believe not, that absolutely without respect had to any persons he giveth himself truly in his Sacraments, but that he giveth himself truly and presently only to the faithful receiver of him.  
The Law of God is perfit, 
Apol.  and requireth of us full obedience: Ergo we are able by no means, to fulfil that Law in this wordly life.  
The Answer is easy. 
Confut.  For the holy doctors do note two kinds of perfections. The one of the way, in which we walk: 
August. de p●cca. me●●tis  The other of the Country, to which we go. 
etremiss. lib. 2● C 13.  The one of this life, the ●ther of the life to come. The one consisting in denying consent unto concupiscences, notwithstanding we feel many of them●● the other consisting in a perfit peace of body and soul, without any motion to evil. To fulfil the law so, that no motion of evil come to our thoughts, it is for an other world: but not to obey the Concupiscencies, that is such a perfection, as many in this life do come unto. and that is a fulfilling of the law of God, in respect of our pilgrimage.  
Paul sharply rebuked Peter: 
Apolog  Barnabas departed from Paul, etc. Did Catholic Fathers strived one against an other. Ergo we should not be so greatly noted for dissensions which are found among us.  
The Apostles and holy Fathers have so strived, 
Con●ut. ●39.  that they kept unity of faith and religion. And they were not so set, that they would live and die in the quarrel. But your Strifes are in principal matters of Religion, and you be so obstinate each of you in his opinion: that no Authority shall make you give over and yield: which is not so, among the Catholics, whereas all are obedient unto one head.  
justine the Martyr is witness, 
Apolog.  that all Christians were called, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, Godless. Ergo this ought not to trouble us, that they call us wicked and ungodly men.  
The cause is not like. 
Confuti●●tion. 151.  For if infidels speak evil of us, it is no matter, because they are not our Ordinaries or judges. But when the catholics, from whom ye received the faith, and without whom ye can not be sure of the Articles of your faith, when these that have been and should be your Fathers and Rulers do condemn your deeds: it should be a very simple comfort unto you, that Infidels of old time did speak against Christians. Of the same kind of argument it is, where you say.  
Haman accused the jews as a people that used certain new laws. 
Fol. 228.  The Athenians said to S. Paul: may we know what new doctrine this is? Celsus writing of purpose against Christ: what, saith he, hath God after so many ages now a● last & so late bethought himself? Eusebius writeth, that Christian religion was called new and straying: Ergo t●●y b● wicked m●n, spiteful against the religi●●● of God, which call us new-fangled.  
These arguments are nought. For the testimony of Infidels against Christian● is nothing worth: but the Sentence old Catholics upon new-fangled Protestants, hath much authority in it.  
Paul the Apostle found faults & falls even in the prime & chief of the Gospel: 
Apolog.  so that he was compelled to write sharply to the Galathians & Corinthians. Ergo the Church may fail and go amiss.  
I answer: 
Confut. 200.  faults may be committed, either in life● either in faith. Again particular churches may err both in life and faith. The Church of Rome may err in life, but never in faith: because the whole church than should be deceived, as which is bound to obey the chief pastor, like as he is principally bound to feed and instruct it. But this is impossible, 
Mat. 16. joa. n 14.  the promises of God standing, and the presence of the Holyghost assisting it. Ergo though S. Paul found errors in particular Churches, this cannot import, that the whole Church may be deceived, or that One Church of Rome, upon the safety and trust of which the health of the whole dependeth.  
Pighius findeth fault with many abuses brought in, 
Apolog.  even into the very Mass: Gerson complaineth of a numbered of most fond ceremonies: Ergo the Church may err.  
You might well say: 
Confut. 206.  Ergo a particular Church may err in a ceremony or such like thing about the Mass itself. But this is nothing to the purpose, to prove, that the whole Church may err, or that the chief Church of all, which is in Rome, may ere in faith. Now as Pighius found fault with abuses: so have the Heads of the Churches given charge, 
Sess. 6.  that they should be amended. As in the very last Council at Trent. By which you may perceive, that although fauts be found in the church, yet are they not allowed generally of the Church.  
Bernard was no heretic, 
Apolog.  he had not forsaken the Catholic Church: yet nevertheless he did not let to call the Bishops that then were deceivers, begylers' a●●● Pilat's. Ergo the Church may err.  
As he letted not to call some deceivers, 
Confutation. .209.  et● so he testifieth for other, that they we●● good and faithful Officers in the Church As Martianus the Cardinal and Gaufri● Carnotensis, 
Bernard. de consideratione.  both of them, Legates o● the Pope, the one into Dacia, and the other into Aquitania. He praiseth also Eugenius the Pope, exceedingly, and yet without flattery. Whereby it is easy to perceive, that all were not like them, whom he reproveth. And therefore the whole Church was not deceived, though some were pilate's, and not Prelates. another answer is, that this Objection doth not prove error in faith (of which the question is) but of manners, which God amend, and which hurt not the good men, no more than the chaff and straw doth the pure corn.  
The Greeks have neither private Mass, 
Apology.  nor mangled Sacraments, nor purgatories, nor pardons, Ergo they hold a still numbered of those things, which they received from the Apostles. 
Confute 267.   
First the antecedent is stark false. Then concerning the Argument, it is not only false, but foolish also. For it concludeth an Affirmative of one kind, of a plain and pure Negative of an other, as if a man would say. The Church of England hath neither Crosses in their churches, neither order of Monastical life in their Religion, neither Latin tongue, lights or ornaments in their Service: Ere go it holdeth still a number of those things, which it received of S. Austin the Monk.  
It is madness to think, that the Holygost taketh his flight from a general Council to ●un to Rome: 
Apolog.  Ergo the Pope may err. 
Confut. 281.   
It is madness in deed so to think. And where then had you the wit to imagine it? For what place can you appoint to a Spirit, and especially what bounds unto God? Beware of it, lest whiles ye seek so greedily to flout your adversary, ye blaspheme in your foul terms and Ironies, the holy Ghost our Creator.  
Item, 
apollo.  what needed so many Bishops, with so great charges, & so far journeys have assembled their convocation at Trident: if the Bishop of Rome must determine all matters: Ergo he may err.  
If you had been so obedient, 
Confut. 281.  or if other were so wise as they should be, General Counsels should not need. But because the world is now come to that Infirmity and curiosity, that matters must be defended against all objections of heretics, and brought again unto examination, after they have been already determined and believed: therefore hath the charity and wisdom of the Pope● stood to the charges of calling a general Council, which fact of his doth not prove, that he may err (which the holy Ghost will not suffer for his presence sake in the Church) but that he doth so reasonably and discreetly order those matters that shall concern our Faith, that he will not err as much as man's wit can provide: but have also the advise, Consent and judgement of other, which are of most authority and learning in the Church of Christ.  
Let the bishop of Rome alone, 
Apol.  be above all councils: Ergo one part is greater than the whole.  
No Sir, 
Confut. 284  not part greater than the whole, but part shall be greater than part, and one member worthier than an other. The body and head together, make the whole: and take away the head ye take away a part of the whole. Ye can not therefore make a division of the church into the whole and the head: but into the head, and the rest of the parts of the whole. And then it is no absurdity at all, that the head should be greater in price and honour, than all the other members beside.  
Athanasius denied to come to the council at Caesarea: 
Apolog.   
Athanasius went away from the Council at Syrmium:  
John Chrysostom kept himself at home, although the Emperor commanded him to come to the Arrians Council:  
Maximus and Paphnutius departed from the Council at Palestine:  
The Bishops of the East would not come to the Council of Heretics named Patropassians.  
Paulinus and many others more refused to come to the Council at Milane:  
Ergo we are not to be blamed for not coming to the Council at Trent.  
You mutiply examples all in vain, 
Confut. 293.  and there is no proportion at all, between the holy Father's constancy, and your disobedience. For they refused to be at the commaundent of heretics and their Favourers, but you contemn the lawful Authority of Catholic Bishops. If ye could truly say it, that the Fathers gathered of late at Trent, were Arrians, Patropassians, or heretics of any sort: then might you lawfully use the examples of Athanasius, Chrysostom, Maximus, Paphnutius, and other. But for as much as it is impossible, that they could be heretics, which held no straying and singular opinions, contrary to the Catholic, common, and received faith in the whole world: you have no excuse left for your pride and disobedience. That Cathalike bishops have refused to come to the conspiracies of heretics, ye never need to have proved it. But if ye can show by any example, that ever any good man yet, did refuse to come to a Council lawfully called by the Pope: then may that example make for you: but there is none such to be found.  
None of us can be suffered to sit in the Council. 
Apolog.   
The Pope's Legates, Patriarches, Archebishopes, bishops and Abbates do conspire together, sit alone by them selves, and have power alone to give they● consent:  
And they will have all their opinions to be judged at the will and pleasure of the Pope:  
Princes and Ambassadors are but used as mocking stocks: Ergo le●●e not the wise and good marvel, if we have those rather to sit at home, then to journey to the Conucel.  
The Apostles never made such arguments. 
Confut. 294  And you if ye had in deed the holy ghost, and if ye were chosen vessels, to carry the name of God abroad: ye would never so childishly either without caus● fear, or if ye had a just cause, complain● and whine, that you shall not sit, when● you come to the general Council, or that than ye shall have a number of Bishoped and abbots against you, or that all shal● be referred to the Pope, or that they wil● mock you, if ye go thither.  
For none of all these things should have letted you from telling your opinions and for the rest you should have referred all to the will of God, what success your words should have had. But either ye be so proud, that except you may be of the chiefest, you will not come into the presence of reverend and learned Fathers: or ye be so fainteharted, that except the Prince be on your side, ye dare none trust the warrant of a safeconduct.  
A Christian Prince hath the charge of both tables committed unto him: 
Apolog.  Ergo not only temporal matters, but Ecclesiastical also pertain to his office.  
He hath the Charge of both tables so far forth, 
Confut. .303.  that he must defend the external giving of due honour unto God, and outward exhibiting of charity towards our neighbour. But to offer up Sacrifice, to minister Sacraments, or to judge of Murder, Adultery, Theft, or any thing that is committed only in heart, hath he any power? Every man seeth, that worldly Princes meddle not with such matters. And therefore their charge is base and narrower, than the charge of bishops and Priests: whom God hath appointed to be his Officers in the inward Court of Conscience.  
The prophets of God commanded the Kings to break down altars of Idols, 
Apolog.  and to write out the books of the Law, for themselves: Ergo Ecclesiastical matters pertain to the jurisdiction of Kings.  
You see, 
Confut. 303.  then that the Princes are not Supreme, but that between them and God, the Prophet is the greater Officer. For the Prophet's command: the princes obey. The Prophets give charge: the princes do execute it. The prophets declare what an Idol is, the Princes destroy it according to the prophets instruction.  
Moses' ● Civil Magistrate received from God, 
Apolog.  and delivered to the people all the order for religion and sacrifices, and gave Aaron a sore rebuke for making the golden calf: Ergo ecclesiastical matters pertain to the office of princes.  
This example agreeth not, 
Confut. 05.  because Moses was not a Civil magistrate only, but also a priest. And he was made also by God the supreme governor and captain over all the number of the children of Israel, were they temporal or Spiritual persons, in figure of Christ. If ye can show that our Saviour left any such power unto any king in the world, and that his Apostles were not immediately next unto him, the chief governors of his church: then shall that temporal King have the power whach ye labour to give him.  
joshua received commandments touching Religion and the service of God. 
Apolog.  Ergo Ecclesiastical matters pertain to their jurisdiction.  
He received commandment, 
Confut. 305.  to meditate in the book of the law, which God had given by Moses, and to keep it. But this was so far of from a Supremacy in matters Ecclesiastical, that it is expressly said in the book of Numeri, 
Cap. 17.  that Eleazar the priest should ask council of God if any thing were to be done for joshua, and that joshua should go forth and come in at the word of Eleazar.  
And this one answer serveth all the Examples which ye bring in of King David, Solomon, Ezechias, josaphat, josias, joas, jehu. By which ye would prove, that they had jurisdiction in matters Ecclesiastical. For they did no more then, than Christian princes do now, even those princes that are obedient to the See of Rome. For they build Churches, and find Singingmen and Priests to keep daily service, they give bishoprics, they put Bishops beside their offices (as Queen Marie did put Crammer an● Ridly) and twenty things more they do abou● matters of religion, not as Supreme Governors, but as devout and faithful Princes, being glad to do for the Church, whatsoever the Spiritual heads thereof, shall move them unto, and being ready to defend the faith of the Church, as they shall learn it of their Bishops.  
It remaineth then, that you show, not that the kings in the old law did set forth the Service of God, displace Priests, commanded the temple to be cleansed, destroyed Idols &c: but that they did these things by their absolute power, without ask advise, leave or instruction of the priests.  
Constantine called the Council at Nice: 
Apolog.  Theodosius the Council at Constantinople: Theodosius the second the Council at Ephesus: Martian the Council at Chalcedon: Ergo Ecclesiastical matters pertain to the Office of Princes.  
They called these Counsels, 
Confut. .308.  not by virtue of their supreme authority, but by the assent of the B. of Rome. And so Princes have to do with the matters of the Church, at the second hand only.  
The Emperor Constantine gave in the Council of Nice his advise to the Bishop's, 
Apolog.  how it was best to try out the matter by the Apostles & Prophets writings: Ergo he bore a great stroke with his Authority in their consultation.  
As great stroke as he bore, 
Confut. .313.  he struck not the head of the Church from the body, nor made himself Supreme. 
Euse●ius in vita Constant. lib. 3. Theodor. lib. 1. c. 7.  But that ye may understand, how little he took upon him, he came in last into the Council with a small company, and sat not down before he had desired the Bishops to permit it. and then also he sat but in a low chair. As for giving of advise, how things were best to be done, it is lawful for the least ●rier, Abbate or Doctor in a Council, to do the like: and yet every Friar that speaketh in a general Council, is not supreme head of the Church: nor of the vocation and Authority, to define or give sentence on any Canon.  
In the third Council at Con●●antinople, Constantine a Civil Magistrate did not only ●itte among the Bishops, but did also subscribe with them.  
In the Council called Arausicanum, 
Apolog.  the Prince's Ambassadors gave their consent, and put to their hands: Ergo eccles●iastical matters pertain to Princes.  
So likewise to subscribe unto the Decrees of a Council, 
Confut. 316.  and to give their consent unto matters there determined, it is and may be ꝑermitted unto mean lay-men: but to define, determine, decree and give Authority unto a Canon, it is neither for Ambassadors, nor Civil Magistrates, nor Emperors of the whole world, but for Bishops only, whom God hath appointed to govern his Church.  
God's grace is promised to a good mind, 
Apolog  & to one that fereeth him. Ergo not to the Sees and Successors.  
This would follow, 
Confut. 334.  if God used to give but one kind of Grace, such as maketh the receiver good. But now there is a Grace of faith, hope and charity, and it is not an evil mind, that hath it. There is the grace of preaching, working of miracles, healing of diseases etc. and he may be evil that hath it. To be a King, it is by the grace of God, and that grace continued until a certain time in the Seed and Succession of David: yet were not all they of a good mind that were kings of juda. By which it appeareth, that your Argument is false, and that the grace of Authority and continuance, is given not only unto the good, but the evil that follow in the race and succession.  
Peter when he was at Rome, 
Apol.  never taught the Gospel, never fed the flock. etc. sat him down only in his castle in S. John Laterane, and pointed out with his finger the spaces of Purgatory, gave orders to say private Masses, etc. consecrated with his holy breath oil, wax, wool, belles etc. maintained wars, set Princes together at variance etc. Ergo Peter did all things like unto the Pope.  
Of whose devising is this Argument? 
Confut. 335.  Undoubtedly no Catholic hath the 〈◊〉 to make it. Do the Protestant's then speak●●●● all this of S. Peter, in sad earnest: ' ● thinkest not so evil of them, although they can be●●● sometimes desperate. How then? Do they speak it but in sport, and dally only with their Adversaries? The cause is to great to use in so large wise, such mockery. Set him upon the Stage with a furred cap and a motley cote, he will play the vice without a vizard, and make gay sport to the company.  
Men say, 
Apolog.  that one Cobilon a Lacedaemonian, when he was sent Ambassador to treat of a league, & found by chance, them of the Court playing at dice, he returned straytewayes home again, leaving his message undone. For he said, it should be a great reproach to his Common wealth, to make a league with dicers: Ergo it should be a great blot to our name, to return to the Pope.  
Cabilon might be perchance a wiseman in his own generation: but in these days, 
Confutation. 337.  he should not be much better, than an impatient or Solemn fool. For to play at 〈◊〉 it is not absolutely and in all times, places and persons, evil. And to let that ●vndone upon private conceit and judgement, which is put upon any man, by common consent and authority, it is not in most cases allowable. But such now is the perfection of the new Gospelers, they will not be at any league with dicers or evil livers, and in their congregations and fraternities there is (I trow) no blot of infamy to be feared. With what countenance then look they, when they come into the Courts of Princes or noblemen? Do they fin dno dicing ●here, and no evil living? I have so good opinion of these men's holiness, that if the Pope with all his Cardinals would take themselves to wives (so to call harlots) and in other things do accordingly to the form of the new Gospel, he should not only have a league made with him, but also be maintained in his supremacy which he hath in Christendom. And the Cobiron that should be sent Ambassador for the purpose would never return again, ●●●uinge his message undone, though 〈◊〉 played at dice never so much.  
The Popes would needs make 〈◊〉 the realm tributary to them: 
Apolog.  Ergo 〈◊〉 most justly have forsaken them.  
It is not for Divines to allege an● such temporal cause, 
Confut. ●49.  of money matter, 〈◊〉 their defence in departing from the churc●● For seeing that the Pope's Authority ●●meth from God, what discharge of my 〈◊〉 is that to me, if he do more, than 〈◊〉 should by right and Conscience? Do no● temporal princes sometimes oppress thei● Subjects, and yet continue in their place and authority above their subiects● Your Argument therefore and fact is nought. And if the argument were true, yet have you no occasion to departed from the See of Rome: unto which in Queen Mary's time you were reconciled, considering that no tribute was required of you, no not so much as the restitution of the Abbey lands.   

The Second Chapter, containing certain Absurdities of the English Apology.  
They be not mad at this day, 
Apolog.  so many free cities, so many Kings, so many Princes which have fallen away from the seat of Rome, and have rather joined themselves to the Gospel of Christ.  
HOW think you then, 
Confut. .16.  by common reason? May any Protestant say, that ALL free Cities, ALL Kings, ALL Princes, and ALL Christian men and women, from the highest to the lowest, were mad in these last ix. hundred years (in which you disdain, and yet confess, the Pope to have been obeyed of all Christendom) and himself in so saying be nothing mad? Or can you reprove your Adversaries, if they be so unmannerly and hasty in their terms, as to call yours so many free Cities etc. mad, where yourselves judge that all your Forefathers, for hundred of years together, have been mad, when they all follow▪ with one consent Papistry.  
If it were a sin in the Heluetian● to deliver their own country from fore● government, 
Apolog.  specially when they were 〈◊〉 proudly and tyranniously oppressed: yet to burden us with other men's faults, or them with the faults of their forefathers, it is against all right and reason.  
Why then do you object against the Catholics the evil lives and deeds of Popes, 
Confut. 177.  Cardinals, Monks, Friars, Priests, which may be found in any sort or condition of men, after some continuance of time and age? And why tell you, abiding in England, tales upon Italy, Spain, or other countries, of Aloisios', Casios, Diasios, and others, to burden thereby the known and ancient Church?  
In times past, 
Apolog.  where the first Christians our forefathers in making their prayers to God, did turn themselves towards the east, there were that said they worshipped the Sun, and reckoned it as God.  
And you, 
Confut. .191.  to prove yourselves the sweet Sons, and exact followers of Antiquity, have altered the old manner and custom of the Catholic Church by charging your Ministers, to pray towards the sowth, and that in the chiefest time and place of all your devotion and Religion. If you knew whether to turn yourselves, after the putting away of the old faith and ceremonies thereof, why chose you the south rather than the East? And why remembered ye not the first Christian's usage? Except (notwithstanding the remembrance of it) you regarded not what they had done and practised. How absurdly then call you them the first Christians and your forefathers, whom ye disdain, or be ashamed to follow in the manner of their praying?  
That old Father Augustine denieth it to be leeful for a monk to spend his time slothfully, 
Apolog.  and under pretenced holiness to live all upon others. And who so thus liveth, an old father Apollonius likeneth him to a thief.  
See the pity which these men take of the old Fathers, 
Confut. 239.  because their sayings are not regarded: and see the pitiful absurdity in which themselves are taken, whiles they would seem to allow the old Fathers. S. Augustine liketh not the idleness of Monks: but idleness put away, did he not allow the order of them? His book is De opere Monachorum, of the labour of Monks, proving that none of them must so think himself addicted to the service of God, in praying, reading, or in spiritual exercises, that he should not set his hands to corporal labour. And he maketh it not a case of necessity, that every Monk must labour: but he impugneth their sayings, which made a necessity of it, not to labour with the body for their living, but to serve God and man by the labour of mind only, as in praying, preaching, and such like.  
Now therefore, if S. Augustine would have had the very Order itself and profession of Monks destroyed, he should have made short and said, not that such monks as would hold the opinion, that they should not labour bodily, aught to be set thereunto: but simply and plainly he would have concluded, that all monkery should be taken away.  
And then, how could he make a whole Book, De opere Monachorum of the labour of Monks, except he would find some what where nothing is, and build a house without labourers?  
But you, whom the idleness of Monks offendeth, and the neglecting of the old Father's orders: show to us, I pray you, your reformed Monasteries. 
Let Heretics show their monasteries.  And if your facts have declared before, and yet hitherto your railing tongues can testify, that ye hate the very Order and Rule of Monks, nor would abide a laborious and a virtuous Monk in your company, how unsensibly do you confess the old Fathers to have spoken against idle Monks, (whereby they signify no abomination to be in the Order itself) yourselves always so mockingly and spitefully handling, not distinctly idle Monks, but (without all addition) Monks? As may appear by john Foxes no little book of Acts and Monuments (to name one for all) and by your great muse in the next sentence following these words of which I speak, where, you wot not whether to name them droves, or herds of Monks, as though no other title might be given unto them, besides that which is proper for brute beasts.  
Concerning the old Father Apollonius, if idle Monks be thieves, what call you them which do rob and spoil, not only the idle, but the laborious and holy Monks? And rob them, not of their house, land, and goods only, but of their fame and estimation: and rob again, not only the Monks, but the just and true owners of such goods as were bestowed upon Monasteries.  
But put the case, all Monks had been thieves. He that robbeth a thief, is he not himself a thief? And if by stealth a true man's lands be taken from him, should it not return in conscience unto him again, if truth and justice were sought for, and not gain or private lust? How well therefore your procedings agree with truth and honesty, 
Apolog.  let it be judged by the spoil of Monks and Monasteries.  
The old Council at Carthage commanded nothing to be read in Christ his Congregation, 
Conf. 243  but the Canonical Scriptures.  
The Homilies which you appoint to be read in your Congregation, be they, think you, Canonical Scriptures? Truly for so much as they are not, you must either leave them unreaden in the Congregation, or confess, that ye have mistaken this old Council at Carthage. And in the mean while ye have done very fondly to complain of transgressing that commandment, which yourselves do not keep.  
As for their religion if it be of so long● continuance as they would have men wen● it is, 
Apolog.  why do they never prove it so by the examples of the Primitive Church, and by the Fathers and Councils of old times?  
This is not reasonably required of you. 
Conf. 231.  For where as you without blushing, dare confess, that your Gospel began to spring about fifty years sense, and whereas unto us, you grant nine hundred years, in which our religion hath continued: if nothing more could be alleged for us, yet against you, this alone were a sufficient argument: And no man should be so hasty upon us, as out of hand to require of us testimonies out of the Primitive Church, to whom we make it evident by the practice of nine hundred years, and that by confession of our adversaries, that we be no upstarts nor starters.  
But now, whereas the late printed books of Catholics (unto which you make no great speed to answer) do ●hew the Primitive Church and ancient Fathers to make for our Religion, and you, on the contrary side, have never proved yet your new Ghospel by any old Example, Father or Council: ye are in one sentence to be twice noted of absurdity, either requiring of us proofs for our Antiquity, yourselves so convicted in your own consciences, to be of fewer years than the Papists are by eight hundred and odd: either thinking it meet and necessary that whosoever saith his religion to be most Apostolic and ancient, should prove it immediately, yourselves not remembering to declare s● much in your own cause all this while.  
We in God's cause desire to stand to God's only judgement. 
Apolog.   
By the cause of God you understand, 
Confut. 272.  I think, the due worshipping of God, in true Religion. But what mean you, by God his only judgement? Would refer the whole matter to him only, th● his will should come unto you, neither 〈◊〉 the means of Angels, nor men, 〈◊〉 any other whatsoever creature?  
And when would ye look to 〈◊〉 so much performed unto you? In 〈◊〉 world, or in the life to come? If in 〈◊〉 world: remember what was said to 〈…〉 desiring to see God his face: 
Exo. 33.  No 〈◊〉 shall live, and see me. And consider, 〈◊〉 the brightness and incomprehensiblen● of God is such, as the weakness of man's soul compassed yet with infirmity, flesh and 〈…〉 can not without somewhat put between, apprehend or behold immediately▪  
If in the world to come: so might 〈◊〉 save in deed yourselves from burning or fleeing, and ye should have all the thieves and whores in the world, most willing to ratify that conclusion, of which there is none to be thought so faithful or fearfulin the sight of God, but he would stand to his only judgement that is to come, upon the ●ope that by such a glorious protestation 〈◊〉 might escape the present judgement of 〈◊〉? 
A protestation ●hat will save thieves, heretics, and all malefactors if it may be admitted  And therefore meaning by your standing 〈◊〉 God's only judgement, such an herring 〈◊〉 perceiving of God's will, as is wrought by 〈◊〉 own essence immediately without any 〈◊〉 of angel, man, or any other craeture, 〈◊〉 is for this present life impossible to be obtained, and argueth a blind and foolish mind 〈◊〉 be in the wisher: and referring it to the world to come, it is spoken so unreasonably, ●hat it may quickly be taken up, to serve all wicked and desperate psons, and to save them 〈◊〉 shame and punishment in this world: which how absurd it would be in the common wealth (if such an appellation or protestatiō●●er allowed) every simple soul may perceive. ●et when a the●e not thinking ꝑchance his 〈◊〉 to be therein unreasonable, shall protest, for 〈◊〉 shift to say somewhat, or only to save somewhat (as his goods, or an opinion of innocency 〈◊〉 the unwise and ignorant) Y● he will stand 〈◊〉 God's only judgement, he uttereth a simple 〈◊〉, or a tolerable policy: marry when a preacher or prelate shall solemnly 〈◊〉 and take a glory in his bold words, 〈◊〉 make his followers conceive a 〈◊〉 weight to be in them: that forsooth God's cause he will stand only to 〈◊〉 judgement, meaning that until 〈◊〉 day come, he will forbid all judgement men upon his doctrine, he falleth into a 〈◊〉 absurdity, partly because he 〈◊〉 the trial of that which presently must determined, unto a time which is so 〈◊〉 of from us: and partly because, he 〈◊〉 also of so idle and vain a prot●●station.  
But now, if ye mean not, to 〈…〉 your standing to God his 〈◊〉 judgement, 
A vain brag of the Prostants, if they take themselves only. to stand to God's only judgement.  so precisely and absolutely but that his judgement, which 〈◊〉 call HIS ONLY, must and 〈◊〉 come to you by some means (either of Angels, or of men, or of other things than do I note unto you, first your 〈◊〉 and bragging sound of words, as thought you did hear almighty God his sentence which he giveth upon matters of faith and Religion, after a more familiar and truer sort, than the Catholics do (for they also stand to Gods only judgement). Upon which point yet being examined, ye can not but confess, that you hear him not immediately, but by means of other things which it pleaseth his majesty to use, so that other poor men may hear him, and stand to his only judgement, as well as you.  
Therefore, I do ask now further, by what means God only speaketh unto you? 
God speaketh not to the heretics by the ministry of Angels.  (For I trust without his uttering of his mind ye are not so well acquainted, or so excellent of understanding as to know it) doth he utter his judgements to you, by the ministery of Angels? But how shall we believe it, except ye prove it? And because ye have not yet craked of it, surely I can not yet think it.  
Well, 
Nor by means of men.  can you declare that he hath showed his will unto you, by the means and mouths of men? If ye dare say so, 〈◊〉 the persons, that they may be considerest And further instruct us, how ye did per●ceaue those worshipful fellows to speak unto you, God his only judgements and not their own fantasies?  
But you have an other way perchance to come to the understanding of God's plea●sure. 
Not by means of dreams.  What is that? Consisteth it in dreams, imaginations, movings of your spirit within you, and other such pretty means? Nay surely, ye be not so dreamish, as to crack of these things, which are ready to departed as lightly as they came, and return back again as quickly as they went away.  
Or doth it consist in true visions and revelations? 
Not by means of revelations.  That is much. Yet they also should be referred to the judgement of the Rulers in Christ's Church, before full credit might he given unto them, because there may be just fear of illusions.  
The case therefore being so hard with you (as we take it) name that mean, which rejoiceth your heart so much, by which, above the rate of other poor souls, you understand the judgement of God, and stand to it, only.  
The Scripture forsooth you will run unto, and there lo God himself speaketh unto you. But how? Immediately by himself, or by means of inferior things? If immediately: why go ye then to the Scripture, 
Ergo by the means of the Characters and letters of the scripture. and then the crack is very absurd.  which is needless in that kind of immediate talk? But if he speak to you, and you hear him▪ by means of these visible characters and letters of Scripture, of which visible letters, words and sentences be made, and in which words intelligible senses are concluded, and if: his be all, that so stoutly ye 〈◊〉 of▪ that ye stand unto God's only judgement, it hath a show of a great matter, and in deed it is of no value, and it maketh the reader believe, that you are wiser than other in your proceedings: yet whosoever will consider them earnestly, shall perceive that your cracks are most unreasonable.  
For in the means, which Almighty God useth in uttering his blessed wil● unto our gross understandings and sensible natures, there be divers degrees▪ and not all of like dignity or worthiness. As when he declared his mind to the Fathers in the old law, by sending of Angels in form of men, and when he sent afterwards his only begotten Sonn● in the truth of our nature, 
To understand the will of God bimeanes of writing is one of the basest.  And when this blessed Son of his declared what he was by sundry miracles, and further, chose certain simple men and unlearned to send them into the world to conquer all the pride and knowledge of the world, and to be short, when these Apostles of Christ, sent unto divers places the will of God contained in their epistles or Gospel: In all these degrees, the lowest and basest mean to derive by it unto us the will of God, is by Scripture and letters.  
You therefore which by your standing to God's only judgement, do mean his judgement uttered by means, and not immediately by himself, you also which do signify thereby, that you follow a better and more excellent way, than other do: you (I say) being proved to take the will of God uttered in scripture and writing, for that most excellent way (which by all reason, is a more unperfit and base mean, than the appearing of Angels, preaching of men, or working of miracles) what do you else, but crack of that as the chiefest which hath his better, and refer yourself to that as principal, which requireth other things to go before it. If you will hear more certainly and principally that which God commandeth, ye must go not to the scriptures immediately: but to them that shall tell you what the Scripture is, and read it after a Catholic tune, unto you.  
The Pope is appeached by us of heinous and foul enormities, 
Apol.  and hath not yet put in his answer.  
In what court? 
Confut. 218.  before what judges? What year of our Lord? for what foul enormity? Yourselves may be well enough Phariseis. But where are your scribes, your summoner's, your apparitors, for this matter? Is not th●s an exceeding absurd folly, to appeach (which importeth an order and form of law by you observed) him with whom you have nothing to do? And to complain that he putteth not in his answer, whom you can not appeach? And which if he would, knoweth not where any consistory of yours is to answer you in it? Yourselves would not appear, being summoned to the late general Council, where out of all Christendom there were your betters, both for spiritual and temporal government, and therefore ye would not because they have (as you must now think) nothing to do with you: and now your worshipful wisdoms have appeached the Pope, as though you had jurisdiction over him.  
Besides this, if the Pope's enormities of which you speak concern the private li●e and manners of the Pope, may an English magistrate, whatsoever he be, require by law and conscience that cause to be brought before him? On the other side if ye have appeached, not Pius Quintus now Pope (a most nolie and innocent Father) nor any of his late predecessors, in this respect as they were private men, but as heads of the church, then have ye called into judgement all Christians which obey them, as accessories to their enormities. And so besides the Pope, Cardinals, Archbishops, Bishops, Priests and others of the clergy, either ye have▪ or by as good law you may appeach the King of Spain, France, Scotland etc. with all the princes, Dukes, and States of Christendom. and yet not accuse them for fear but be shrew them (for your office sake) that they do not put in their answer. Such judges as you be▪ such a king was captain Kete, or if that similitude be not fit, you be like to the mad frontike prince, of whom it is readen, that he took care and joy over all the ships of strangers which passed in great numbered down by his palace, having in deed (poor king) very few good vessels of his own to crack of.  
Truly, whether the Pope will put in his answer, or whether he hath received your judgement, I will not strive upon it, but, for desire to see the end of your process against him, ye should have done exceeding well (me thinketh) to send your Officers, some to Rome, there to watch when the Pope with all his Cardinals sitteth in the Consistory: other some to the Emperor, wheresoever he be in Camp or in Court, and when each of them is occupied about matters of the Church and the Empire, suddenly let your Officers come and arrest (I can not tell yet in whose name, except it be of the Apology of the Church of England, but it is no matter for the name) let your Officers do as you command them, and l●tte them first arrest the Pope an● his Cardinals, as principal, with all the Bishops about him: And then afterwards the Emperor as accessory, with all his Dukes and nobles, and bring them closely to London before high commissioners, and until they will be ruled, and put in their answer, set them fast, here and there, through all the gates and prisons in London. For either you have no law, or possibility, to appeach the Pope, or else surely ye may by these means constrain him to bring in his answer. The one is as reasonable as the other.  
Although the modesty and the mildness of the Emperor Ferdinand, 
Apolog.  be so great, that he can bear this, because peradventure he understandeth not the Pope's packing, yet ought not the Pope of his holiness to offer him that wrong, nor to claim as his own an other man's right.  
A likely matter, 
Confut. .313.  that the Emperor should not understand the packings, if any be made, of the Pope, having a wise Council assisting him, and the world round about sounding of heretics books and practices, himself also having (as ye will not I think deny) as much judgement and discretion as your ministers, of whom yet every one maketh himself to know much of the Pope's packing, and goeth with his farthel about him, and (like a spiritual peddler) setteth forth his small wares in open pulpits, and among all other points, uttereth those of the Pope's behaviour, as most gay gear for the brothers and sisters.  
Note beside this, how artificially they praise the Emperor for his modesty and mildness: because (say they) peradventure he understandeth not the Pope's packing. Think ye then, that if without peradventure he understand it not, that the hearing thereof doth prove a mildness to be in him? So may ye praise a deaf man for his meekness, when that not hearing the evil words that are spoken against him, he is never moved or troubled with them.  
If so be they whom God hath placed in greatest dignity, 
Apolog.  did see and perceive these men's practices, how Christ's commandments be despised by them etc. no doubt they would never so qui●●lie suffer themselves, neither to be disdained after such a proud sort, nor so despitefully to be scorned and a●used by them.  
No doubt, 
Confut.. 32●.  but if you for your no little wit or learning, were worthy to be in any great dignity: you should quickly perceive, that the Princes and Rulers of the world have and do understand as much of the state of Religion, as any of the Brotherhood. either because they are wise of themselves, and are set in an high place, from which they may better see what is done in the world, than other of base degree: either because Kings and Princes have commonly about them, either wise Councelers to instruct them of all things, Or Courtly Discoursers which will be ignorant of nothing, Or dissolute livers, which are ready to speak against the Ancient faith for love of the late Gospel's liberty and novelty.  
Ireneus often times appealed to the oldest Churches, 
Apolog.  which had been nearest Christ's time, and which it was hard to believe had erred: but why at this day is not y● common respect & consideration had?  
See how properly you will have appeal made to the oldest Churches, 
Confut. ●23.  which abandom the Church of Rome, which was in S. Ireneus time, so truly the chief, that unto it (as he saith) all Churches must resort because of the greater principality, 
Lib. 3. c. 3.  and which at this day is without all question the oldest: and from which you have so strayed, unto seeking of the ouldest Churches, that falling upon a young congregation of three score year old at the most, ye pass not very much upon any church new or old, but only the pure and plain scripture.  
For somuch as we were ascertened of Gods will, 
Apolog.  and counted it a wickedness, to be careful and overcomed about the judgements of mortal men, we could no longer stand taking advise with flesh and blood.  
Have ye received your Gospel by revelation, 
Confu●. .317.  as S. Paul saith of himself that he did? Are you the Apostles of Christ neither through man, neither from man? If ye will be ashamed of such arrogancy, then have you to confess, that ye have learned the Ghospel of ●od, at the mouth of men. If ye will still glory in it, and never blush, then walk as ye are, and show us your Revelation: or tell what contrary Advertisement you have received, why ye should not thoroughly follow their judgements, of whom ye received the Ghospel at the beginning?  
john Chrysostom, 
Apolog.  although the Emperor Constantius commanded him by ●o were sundry letters to come to the Arrians council: yet kept he himself at home ●●ill.  
How is the Prince then Supreme head? 
Confut. 3●●.  Or how do you bring S. Chrysostom's example for defence of your fact? For if the King be chief Governor in all causes spiritual and temporal, surely he was no good and obedient subject, which would not come at four times sending for. On the other side, if ye dare reprove S. Chrysostom, for his not yielding to the supreme powers commandment, what meant you to allege S. Chrysostom in defence of your doings, allowing not the fact of S. Chrysostom?   

The third Chapter, containing the lies that are made in telling of Stories with Follies in crediting of vain tales.  
Were all things then pure and holy in Rome, 
Apolog.  when Johan, a woman rather of perfect age than of perfect life, was Pope there, and bore herself as the head of the Church? And, after that for two whole years in that holy See, thee had played the naughty pack, at la●t going in Procession about the City, in the sight of all the Cardinals and Bishops, fell in travail, openly in the streets?  
THere was never any such woman Pope in Rome. 
Confut. .154.  Anastasius, an historiographer of that time, and master of the Pope's Library, which was himself present at the creations of Sergius 3. Leo 4. Benedictus 3. and other Popes after them, maketh no mention of any such. And yet the makers of this woman Pope▪ do place her▪ between Leo 4. and Benedoctus 3. Other historiographers also, both old and late, of the best sort make no account of her.  
Then he that telleth the tale of thi● Pope Johan, telleth it with such probability, that he must be of small wit and discretion, which should give any credit unto it.  
For he speaketh first by hear say only.  
Then he telleth, that she was an English woman borne, at Magunce: and Magunce is high Doutchelande.  
Further he saith, that she was brought to Athenes by a lover of hers. And therefore by likelihood she was more than a Child.  
Now, what should she do at Athenes but learn a God's name. And Athenes, at that time, was not for learning, as being altogether barbarous.  
And yet she not only learned, but profited also in diverse sciencies, and so profited, that none was found to be compared with her. And yet it is 〈◊〉 to say, whether women in men's 〈◊〉, and kept purposely for the 〈◊〉 of their Lovers, should have the 〈◊〉, the will, the wit, the leisure, the grace to pass all other of the Vni●rsitie. But let the tale go forwards.  
How came she to Rome, by what fa●ur, by what hope, by what lovers cost● 〈◊〉 fancy? Well, this is not told but as ●hough, that there were no more in the 〈◊〉, but that as soon as any fine and excellent Scholare came to Rome, he should straightways be appointed out to be the next Pope: so the See being vacant, this for said Johan was (no man knoweth how) enthronizated: and yet it is not only besides the practice of the Church of Rome, but also against common sense and reason, that any should be chosen unto that Office, whom they should not know by many years experience, and by commendation of worthy persons: And also perceive by the face itself, to be a man likely to govern the Church discreetly.  
But now saith the tale further, be●ing in the Popedom, she is begotten with child of her servant. For ye 〈◊〉 understand, that her old lover was 〈◊〉 dead, or that either she was weary him, or he of her, and that she kept h● self an honest woman, until the secon● year of her Popedom, at which tim● her servant begot her with child.  
It is very credible she was past child bearing, which had a lover before she went to Athenes, and lived there 〈◊〉 long (not without lovers, I trow) till she was the best scholar in the University▪ And ●aried then afterwards in Rome till she was thought worthy to be Pope But the grace of the tale were lost, an● all the short of the heretics were marred, except she had a child.  
And 〈◊〉, say they, not knowing the time of her deliverance, as she went from S. Peter's to Lateran, she brought forth, and died. How incredible▪ that a woman, and so honest a woman as from ●er youth had been an harlot, and so learned that none was found to be compared with her, should not know the time of ●er deliverance, or not make so nigh a 〈◊〉 at it, that she would never ven●er abroad, when ieobardie might arise of betraying herself? How unlikely also, that before the matter was opened in procession, she could keep it so close, that none of the curious Italian eyes, could perceive it, either that she looked not like a man, or did not so be have herself as men do, or were nothing changed, in body or countenance, from that pleight she was in eight or nine months before?  
But I will leave to make further conjectures: this is certain, the best Historiographers make no mention of any Johan, 
joannes Polonu● a monk  and he whom the heretics at this time follow, and which is their first author in this tale, is such a one, as is altogether unworthy of credit.  
To whose ears hath it not come, 
Apolog.  that N. Diasius a Spaniard, being purposely sent from Rome into Germany, 〈◊〉 shamefully a●d devilishly murder 〈◊〉 own brother Thon Diasius, a most innocent and a most godly man, only because he had embraced the Gospel 〈◊〉 jesus Christ, and would not return again to Rome.  
How prove you, 
Confutation. 1●7.  that he was purposely sent from Rome? As though the Pope or any of the Cardinals had so great care, what the poor corrector john Diasius the Spaniard did, in his master's shop in Germany.  
How prove ye also, that Diasius his brother did murder him? For he did not only not murder him, but not so much as know of it, before it was done. The whole matter was brought before judges, Diasius was delivered, and he that in deed committed the murder, was condemned.  
How unjustly then do you, to condemn him for a murderer, whom his lawful judges have absolved? You will, I trust, repent, or else you will answer for it, when it shall be to late to repent.  
Who hurled under his table, 
Apolog.  Francis Dandalus the Duke of Venice, King of Creta and Cypress, fast bound with chains, to feed of bones among the dogs?  
No body. 
Confut. 186.  But tell us now again, who hath made five lies in so few lines?  
First Dandalus was not hurled under the table, 
Sabellic. Decad. 2. lib. 1.  but, he came of his own accord. And to move the Pope unto pity, creeped upon all four to his table, and there laid himself down.  
secondly, he was not then Duke of Venice. (For their Dukes use not to be Ambassadors, nor to go out of the City) nor King of Creta, nor Cypress. For the Venetians have no Kings in their State.)  
thirdly, he was not fast bound in chains, saving that one chain which he put about his own neck, and which he might have taken of, and gone away at his pleasure.  
Fourthly, he was not hurled under the table to feed of bones. For neither the Pope doth make any fare so hard, neither setteth he any man to dinner under his table.  
Last of all, that he should be hurled down to feed among dogs, I think that either the Pope hath none at all, either that he hath other places for than, or that he maketh not man and beasts commensales together.  
Tell me then now, who hath made so vile, so spiteful, so doggish and so many lies within iij. or four lines together?  
And all this shall ye find in the very History of Sabellicus, Decad. 2. lib. 1. col. 1220. And the Quotation is true, although M jewel in his Sermon of late, did tell it for a worthy point to be noted, that Sabellicus never wrote Decades, but Enneades. Which if it had been true, the mistaking yet of the Title of a book was not much to be spoken of, as long as it is found to be true, that which is reported, as out of such a book. But thanks be to God, there is no harm done to D. H●rding, because Sabellicus hath in deed written Decades of the Story of the Venetians, although there be extant also Enneades of other Stories which he entitleth Rapsodia. And M. jewel in pressing his Adversary so earnestly with such a trifle, and yet failing therein also of his purpose, doth prove himself to be driven very sore unto his shifts, and that he is much to be pitied, that he hath not like good success unto his great courage.  
Who set the Imperial Crown upon the Emperor Henry the sixth's head, 
Apolog.  not with his hand, but with his foot? And with the same foot again, cast the same Crown of, saying withal, he had power to make Emperors, and to unmake them again at his pleasure?  
You by likelihood can tell which ask the question? For unto us it is not only a fable, but a foolish one also, and absurd and malicious.  
Who put in arms Henry the Sonn● against the Emperor his Father, 
apollo.  Henry the fourth: And wrought so, that the Father was taken prisoner of his Son, and being shorn and shamefully handled, was thrust into a Monastery, where with hunger and sorrow, he pined away to death?  
The Pope did none of all these things. 
Conf. 187  But the Son himself, after a great foil and overthrow, which his Father had taken at the Saxons hands, seeing him to be so strooken with fear, that he durst not appear abroad, he took upon himself the administration of the Empire, and fought afterwades against his own Father, which would have had him to surrender the Empire. And taking his Father prisoner, he committed him to strait custody, without any motion of the Pope thereunto, as with whom also he was at Variance. Then, as touching the Shearing or thrusting him into A Monastery, or famishing of Henry the fourth, let him that made these shameful lies, show his Author, and defend himself.  
Who, 
Apolog.  so ill-favoredly and monstrously put the Emperor frederic's neck under his feet, and as though that were not sufficient, added further this Text out of the Psalms: Thou shalt go upon the Adder and Cockatrice, and shalt tread the Lion and Dragon under thy feet?  
Who this should be, 
Conf. 188  yourselves can not tell, which are the only maintainers of the tale. For sometimes ye lay it to Innocentius the third: sometimes to Innocentius the eight: sometimes to Alexander the third. And the fact being so straying and singular, that it could not be but notorious, yet ye have so little certainty thereof, that ye know not who should have done it. But the truth is, no grave writer maketh any mention of such behaviour of the Pope.  
The Emperor Theodosius, 
〈◊〉.  as Socra●es saith, did not only sit amongs the bishops, but also ordered the whole arguing of the cause.  
Here you speak of sitting, 
〈…〉  as though Th●od●sius had then been at some General Council. You speak also of ordering the whole arguing of the cause, as though himself had been a moderator of some disputation.  
The plain story is, 
Hist. 〈◊〉 9 ca 19  Theodosius conferred familiarly in his own palace, with the bishop of Constantinople, how his people might be brought to an unity in faith. And when the heretics refused one good way (which was, to be tried by the testimonies of Ancient Fathers) he went an other way to work with than: which was, that each of them should bring forth in writing, that which he had to say for his faith. Which being done, the Emperor read over their writings, and rejected the Arrians, Macedonians and Eunomians heresies, and embraced and commended the judgement of the Nicene Council, touching the consubstantiality of God the Son with his Father. So that this history serveth nothing to the matter of a General Council, nor proveth, that an Emperor may sit there, as judge among the Bishops, nor that Theodosius did upon his own head, and as Supreme Governor, that which Socrates here reporteth of him, but that he followed the Council of his bishop Nectarius, and the former decrees of the Nicene Council.  
justinian put down from their Papal Throne two Popes, 
Apolog.  Syluerius and Vigilius, notwithstanding they were Peter's successors, and Christ's Vicars.  
No, 
Conf. 3.  it was not justinian, but his Lady Theodora, which was a great maintainer of heretics, and when women, their husbands being alive, be so fervent in spirit, that they must have such Popes as please themselves, no wonder if Peter's Successors be shamefully handled.  
Charles the great being Emperor held a provincial Council in Germany, 
Apolog.  for putting away Images, contrary to the second Council at Nice.  
This is so false, 
Confut. 327  that the contrary is most true. For whereas the heretics, named image-breakers, 
Abbas Vrsper. Anselm. Rid. Pencerus. Carion. Pantal●o  had holden a Council at Constantinople, for abrogating of Images: directly against this impiety of theirs, Pope Adrian and Charles the great held an other Council at Frankfurt in Germany. So much it lacketh, that Charles the great should be a favourer of image-breakers.   

The fourth Chapter containing the lies made upon the Ancient Fathers and other Writers.  
S. Augustin, 
Apolog.  when he disputed against Petilian an heretic of the side of the Donatists: let not these words, 
Aug. de unitate Eccl. c, 30  quoth he, be heard between us: I say, or you say: let us rather speak in this wise, thus saith the Lord: there, let us seek the Church, there let us bolt out the cause.  
THe question between S. Augustine and the Donatists was this: 
Conf. 29.  where the Church should be? Now, to prove that the Church was not with the catholics, the Donatists were busy always, in rehearsing, how the Catholics, had burned the holy books, and had offered incense to Idols, and had persecuted Innocentes, like as the protestants in these days, when the question is of the Supremacy of the Bishop of Rome, they use to make a long tale, how such a Pope was a Necromancer, and such a one a lecherous man, and some other proud and ambitious.  
Now although S. Augustine might (and did also in sundry places) say truly that the objections of the Donatiste● were false, 
Augu. de unit. Eccles ca 2. Idem lib. 2. cont epist. petil. c. 8.  and though he might brin● forth against them also, greater examples of their faults: yet considering, tha● such oiections taken out of the evil life of the one side or the other, do not pertain to the question proponed: And seeing, that altercation and strife only wa● maintained thereby, whiles each part● would say▪ the other lied, and would no● cease to tell what they could one of th● other, being not credited yet one of th● other: S. Augustine therefore not desirous to chide, but earnest to prove th● Church to be on his side, useth these words: 
De unit. Eccl. c. ●.  Let us not hear, This I say, or, This thou sayest; but, let us hear, this saith our Lord▪ After which words, these follow which the Apologi● should not have omitted, Truly their b● extant our lords books, the authority of which we both do agree with all, we both believe, we both serve and obey: There let us seek the Church, there us bolt out our cause.  
For the Church itself to prove itself by her own words, is not convenient: And to credit her at the report and commendation of a base and unworthier witness than herself, is very dishonourable. It remaineth therefore, that her cause be examined by the Scriptures, as which have so great authority, and are so generally received. And truly it is exceeding well provided of God, that, in their several causes, the Church s●ould declare the scriptures, and the scriptures the church. And so, when any man believeth the church, and striveth with me upon a text of the scripture, I would say unto him, let us have no more these words, I say, or you say, but let us hear rather, this saith the Church.  
On the other side, when one believeth the scriptures (as heretics think they do) and would reason with me about the Church, where it should be, I would answer: Let not these words be hear● among us, I say, or you say, but let us hear, This saith the Scripture. Therefore in this principal question between the Catholics and the Donatists, which was, where the Church should be, the best way was, only to appeal to Scriptures.  
Again, the Donatists admitte● the Scriptures: but other things which S. Augustine alleged out of lawful records, either of the Ecclesiastical, or the Temporal Court, to encounter them withal, they did not believe. And so, I say, and thou sayest, went to and fro between them, without any conclusion or profit. To drive therefore the matter to some Issue, let us hear no more (saith he) I say, or thou sayest, but, this sayeth our Lord, his books we both believe, we both obey. there let us seek the Church.  
Now in other kinds of question, as, of fasting, receiving the Sacraments, keeping of holy days, and other traditions, S. Augustine would never bind us to Scripture only, himself saying of these and the like, in his Epistle ad januarium. 
August. ● epist. 116. ad ●anuarium.  What so ever the whole Church through the world doth keep, thereof to dispute, it is a most insolent madness.  
Likewise also, toward such kind of Adversaries, as would be tried by testimonies of old Fathers together with Scriptures, or without express Scripture, he would never charge us to use these words only, This saith our Lord: but well would have been contented, that we should say▪ this saith Cyprian, Ambrose, Basile, etc. himself speaking of Ancient Fathers before and in his time after this fashion: Quod credunt, 
Contra julianum, Pelagianun. lib. 1. ca 2.  credo, that which they believe, I believe, that which they say, I say, etc.  
Therefore ye have abused very much your Reader, and S. Augustine both, making the one to think, the other to testify, that, we should not fight against Heretics, but with express Scripture only.  
Fulgentius ad Thrasimundum saith, 
Apolog.  that Christ, tho●gh he be absent from us concerning his manhood, yet is ever present with us concerning his Godhead.  
The form of a servant is one thing, 
Confut. 3●.  and manhood is an other. The form pertaineth to shape and figure, which covereth our substance, and maketh it visible: the manhood pertaineth to the inward nature, and is, only intelligible. The first is not granted nor taught of the Catholics, that Christ is with us now in earth, after the form of a servant. The second yet they confess and believe, that he is with us really in his manhood. The first is Fulgentius true saying, to the king Thrasimund: The second is your depraving of Fulgentius, in face of the world.  
Sozomenus saith of Spiridion, 
Apolog.  and Nazianzene saith of his own Father, that a good and diligent Bishop doth serve in the ministry never the worse for that he is married, but rather the better and with more ableness to do good.  
It will never (I fear) be better with you, 
Confut. 76.  but always worse and worse. Would ye make Gregory Nazianzene, contrary to the Apostle? And S. Paul so expressly pronouncing, that he which hath a wife, is careful for the things of the world, 
1. Cor. 7.  and is divided, think you, that any Ancient Father or writer (whose testimony yourself do trust) were likely to say, that a Bishop doth serve the better in the ministry, for that he is married?  
I am glad ye give credit to Sozomenus and Nazianzene, using them for witnesses, that we may see whether ye will regard their own very words, and cry them mercy for abusiug them. Sozomenus saith thus, speaking of Spiridion. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 
Lib. 1. c. ●●  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. This Spiridion wa● an husband man, having wife an● children, but he was not therefore the worse to Godward.  
How think you then, doth he praise Marriage? Doth he say, He served God the better, and with more ableness by reason thereof? Doth he not rather note it, as a rare and a singular grace in him, that having such occasions of dividing and distracting his mind, he nevertheless was nothing abated in his diligence and attention towards God?  
Nazianzene likewise speaketh of S. Basiles Fathers perfect life in marriage with A (but yet) saying: Although he put himself in bonds of marriage, yet he lived so therein, as he was letted no whit therefore, from the attaining of perfect virtue, and following of wisdom. As who should say, it cometh most times so to pass, that when students or holy men are married, they look but seldom on their books, but wait upon the business of the world: yet was it otherwise with Basiles Father. For he, although he put himself in bonds of marriage, yet he was no whit letted therefore etc. In which words he commendeth his virtue, and giveth no example to unmarried Priests, that if they will be furthered to perfection, they should not be without a bedfellow: no more than he which should report of an other, that he sitteth at a table full of delicates, and yet never surfeiteth upon them, that prove that it is a right way to temperance, always to be at many and fine dishes. Whereas contrariwise, in all things that are delectable unto the senses, and hurtful, by excess, unto moral virtues, the safest way is, to flee from occasions of evil, until by long custom, an habit be obtained in the virtue. And then, as it is an argument of great perfection, to live with a woman and nothing to be hindered in devotion by her, so, it is so rare a virtue, and needless (though it be in a man) to be practised, that as it may sometimes come to pass, that one is not the worse, yet there was never yet any man so blind and unsensible, which would think it to be a preferment toward perfection, to be at bed and at board with a woman.  
The more you have then to answer for, which have fathered such a sense on S. Gregory Nazianzene.  
S. Jerome: All these things, saith he, which without the testimony of the Scriptures, 
Apolog.  are held as delivered from the Apostles, be thoroughly smitten down, by the sword of God's word.  
He saith not generally (all those things, 
Conf. 30  oina) but, 
In ●rin●ū cap. Aggaei.  Sed & alia, that is, and other things also. And he saith not, which are holden, afferuntur, but, which they find and fancy, meaning heretics, of whom only he speaketh in that place. And therefore he maketh not a general rule against Traditions, but a special provision against the deceits of heretics.  
It was rightly said by Pius the second a bishop of Rome, 
Apolog  that he saw many causes, why wives should be taken away from Priests, but many more and more weighty causes, why they ought to be restored to them again.  
His words, 
Conf. ●0.  as Platina reporteth, are these, that marriage hath been taken from Priests with great reason, And that it seemeth, it were to be restored again with greater. Note (it seemeth) not (it ought) and note (greater rea●on) and not, many more and more weighty. And if he had so earnestly spoken, as you suppose, yet doth he not allow the marriage of priests, which he confesseth to have been taken away for great cause: but so much he seemeth to be grieved with the looseness of them in his time, that he thought the causes why they might be permitted to marry, were much greater.  
After which manner, a very discreet and sad Merchante of London might say unto you, that for great good cause, Apology would be so much overseen? marry, aut integra percipiant, aut ab integris arceantur, either (saith he) let them receive the whole, 
De cons. dist. ● ca● Comperi.  eihter let them be kept from the whole. Of receiving therefore he speaketh, not of giving.  
Why, is it not all, in a manner, one? and can both be received, except both be given? No, they cannot. But who shall constrain the Priest to give both? Or who shall compel the bishops (whom God hath set to govern his church) who shall compel them, to make a law that both be given? For as they seal see it expedient for the present state of the people, over which they have authority, so may they, to some give both, to some give one: to some in form of bread, to other in form of wine: and some also they may keep from receiving in any kind at all, like as by their discretion they shall see the diversity of cases to require. And if ye could impugn this by any means, yet could ye not impugn it by Gelasius, and prove by him, that both kinds ought to be given.  
Secondly I note against you, that neither the people's receiving in both, is proved by Gelasius to be of absolute necessity, under peril of committing sacrilege. For he speaketh but of one certain kind of persons. How prove I that? By his own words. For in his commuandement, that they, which were noted unto him, should either receive the whole, or abstain from the whole he layeth in, this cause between. Quoniam nescio etc. Because they be stayed with a superstition, I can not tell what: ergo take superstition away, and the case of the Receiver is altered. And he doth not forbid a virtuous and right believing man to receive in one kind, upon good considerations. Show ye now▪ that the sacrament ought to be given in both kinds▪ and that some sort of people might not receive under one alone: or confess, that ye have made a double lie upon Gelasius.  
What can be said more plainly then that which Ambrose saith, 
Apolog.  bread and wine remain still the same they were before, and yet are changed into an other thing.  
As plain as he speaketh, 
Confut. 94.  you understand him not: and if you do (because nothing can be said more plain) then do ye abuse him most shamefully. The beginning of the sentence or period, out of which you take certain words for your purpose, 
Lib. 4. de Sacr. c. 4.  is this in english. If there be so great power in the word of our Lord jesus, that things which were not, should begin to be: how much more, is it effectual and working, ut sint quae erant & in aliud commutentur, that things which were, be, and be changed into an other thing. Upon the construction of which latin words our present question consisteth. The Apology construeth thus▪ ut, that (understand, say they▪ panis & vinum, bread and wine) Sint, quae erant, should remain still the same they were before: & commutentur in aliud, and should be changed into an other thing. Now the true interpretation is thus to be made. Vt quae erant, that the things which were: Sint, be, & in aliud commutentur, and be changed into an other. So that quae erant, is nominative case to the verb sint, and not panis & vinum, as the Apology feigneth.  
For in S. Ambrose argument there is this antithesis or opposition: from not being to being, and from being to an other being. As, if God hath made nothing somewhat, much more of somewhat he may make another thing. Before the world began, the Heavens, waters, and Earth had no existence or being at al. God spoke the word, and so of nothing he made them to have a beginning and being: but bread had a being, when it was yet unconsecrated, and after the words of consecration it keepeth still a being (because it is not annihilated, and utterly made nothing) yet it keepeth not still the same being it had before, because it is no more natural bread, but is turned by the omnipotency of God's word, into the body of Christ.  
As in example of the meat which we eat, be it fish or flesh, it had a being in itself before we did eat it▪ an● after it is once digested it hath a being, (for we are not fed with nothing, and our meats are not annihilated in us, but converted into our bodily substance) yet they keep not the same being which they had before. For than should their bodies which fed always upon veal, mutton, capons, wodcockes etc. consist not of man's flesh, but of calueflesh, sheeps flesh, etc. And such men were quickly to be set to school, or reform in their opinion lest by much using of the foresaid meats, they might prove (in their own concept) as wise as Calves, Capons or Wodcockes.  
This example well considered, it will appear, that S. Ambrose saith right lie, that, quae erant, sint, the things which were, keep a being (as bread doth when it is consecrated) but not (as the Apology abuseth S. Ambrose) that, Sint quae erant, they should remain still the same they were before. For bread is converted by consecration into the body of Christ, and so keepeth still a being, but not the same, which it had before.  
cyril saith, 
Apolog.  when we come to receive these mysteries, all gross Imaginations must quite be banished.  
Gross Imaginations in S. cyril, 
Confut. 107.  do signify, not the Catholic belief of the Faithful, which confess them selves to receive under the form of bread, perfect God, and perfect man, One jesus Christ: but the carnal thoughts and opinions of Nestorius, and like Heretics, which divide Christ, that is but one, and imagine, that the Blessed Virgin was Mother of Christ man, not of the word God, as though the manhood had any personal subsistence, separate from the godhead. Of which false principle it would follow, that the body of Christ, which Christians receive in the Sacrament, should be the body of a pure man. And therefore he inveigheth against him, and saith.  
Num hominis comestionem etc.▪ what, dost thou pronounce this ou● Sacrament to be the eating of a man, and dost thou drive irreverently the mind of the faithful to gross imaginations? etc. Now the Catholics, which believe that they receive, not the flesh of a bare man (which could not but minister very carnal and gross thoughts) but the flesh of God and man, that by consideration of the presence of such 〈◊〉 majesty, our understandings should yeld● unto his words, by faith, and put away all carnal Imaginations concerning the mysteries: judge you, whether we be guilty of gross imaginations, and whether you have rightly understanded S. cyril, or no.  
As Chrysostom very aptly writeth, 
Apolog.  we say, that the body of Christ is the dead ●●rcas, & we ourselves must be the eagles, ●eaning thereby, that we must fly high, if 〈◊〉 will come to the body of Christ.  
We must fly high in deed, 
Confutation. 109.  which is, 〈◊〉 Chrysostom himself expoundeth it, ●o have nothing to do with the earth, 
In 1. Cor. cap. 10. Ho. 24.  neither to be drawn downward to ●ase things. And again: wipe away (saith he) all filth from thy soul, prepare thy mind to receive these mysteries. No●e the word, mysteries, and mark, that he doth not mean fleeing up by faith unto heaven, in which place only ye would have Christ's body to be: but rather a fleeing by devotion and good mind to the Altar here beneath on earth, where the body, of which he speaketh, doth lie. He flieth high, which contemneth the judgement of his own senses, which subdueth his reason to Faith, which despiseth the things that the world esteemeth highly, which conformeth his life to the life of Christ, which prepareth himself to the mysteries. No doubt but we must flee high, not changing of place but conditions: not by only conceiving of Christ that he is our Mediator in heaun, but also believing of Christ, that by his body he worketh our salvation in earth: hat by spiritual imagination, to feed on his body at his father's hand all above, but with faithful and humble devotion, to receive his real body at the priest's hand here beneath: not by light esteeming of the sacrament as though there were no real presence, but by diligent preparing of ourselves towards it, as containing the body of God our Saviour.  
Of which two kinds, ye choose the first with refusal of the second, and would have your reader or hearer believe, that he must not look to have the natural sleash of Christ in the mysteries on the altar, nor believe any transubstantion, nor make any adoration: for than we should have Christ within our sight, our reach, our body, and have our maker present among us in earth, and this will not stand (say you then) with the fleeing high of which Chrysostom speaketh: But because you abuse S. Chrysostom herein, therefore I tell you of it, and bid you remember, that the high fleeing of which he speaketh, is to be referred unto the forsaking of earthly, vile, and base manners, and not to the drawing away of our mind from the belief, and reverence of the mysteries.  
For thus he expoundeth our fleeing high: If the kings child arrayed in purple and diadem were delivered unto thee to bear, wouldest thou not cast down on the ground all that thou holdest, and receive him? But now when thou receivest not the King's child, but the only begotten Son of God, 
Chrysost in 1. Cor. cap. 10. Hom. 24.  tell me, I pray thee, art not afraid? And dost thou not cast away all love of worldly things, and garnish thyself with him only, but dost thou look down on th'earth? Art thou yet in love of thy money? art thou yet given to the earth? If it be so, what forgiveness, what excuse shalt thou find?  
And of real presence he writeth thus, that we have in earth that very body which was nailed, beaten, which was no● overcome by death, which the son seeing crucified, turned away hi● beams, for which the veil of th● Temple was rend a sunder, stones an● all the earth quaked, the body that was made all bloody, and being thru●● in with a spear, powered forth fountains of blood and water, healthful to all the world. You therefore ar● much deceived, and have greatly misse-used S. Chrysostom, by fleeing so high, that ye see not his plain Text and meaning.  
How shall I hold him (saith A●gustine) which is absent? 
Apolog.  How shall 〈◊〉 reach my hand up to heaven, 
In joan. Tract. 50.  to lay 〈◊〉 upon him that sitteth there? He answereth, Reach thither thy faith, and tho● hast laid hold on him.  
He speaketh not in that place, 
Confut.. 100LS.  to th● faithful about their receiving of Christ▪ but to jews which believe not in Christ. And them he teacheth, not to seek 〈◊〉 Christ as their fathers did (which was to kill him) but (as the faithful do) ●hich is to keep him. But how may ●ne keep him, except he take him? Or how may one take him, except he come to him? Or how may one come to him which is in heaven so far from him? Marry (saith S. Austin) reach forth thy faith, and thou hast hold of him. Thy fathers held him in flesh, hold thou him in heart, for Christ absent is also present.  
Upon which place I would note for my own part, that he saith not, reach thither thy faith, but, mitte fidem, reach forth or put forth thy faith. For this mischief may come to the reader of this word Thither, that taking S. Austin to speak there, to them that already have faith and believing his words in that place, to ꝑteine to the question of the Sacrament, he concludeth straightway, that Christ's true and real body must not be sought for in the mysteries upon the altar, because S. Austin biddeth us reach our faith thither, that is, to heaven. Yet the place is neither referred to perfect Christians, but only to jews, neither doth it specify, reaching hither or thither, but only requireth plain● giving of faith.  
Yea there is so great odds between S. Austin as he is in his own work, and as he is made to stand in the Apology, that the word thither, which the Apology so gladly reporteth, is expressly refused of S. Austin. For to the jews question, ask how he might reach to heaven, and take hold of Christ, he answereth, put forth faith, and thou hast hold of him, and addeth after a few words this cause: For Christ absent is present. As if he should say, when I bid thee (o jew) to apprehend Christ which is in heaven, I require faith of thee, and do not bind Christ to a certain compass and circuit, nor make it needful for thee, to climb up to heaven. For Christ, as comprehended by faith, is i● earth as well as in heaven, and think no● therefore, of chainging of place, but changing of heart, knowing that by faith Christ is in men's hearts, and is continually here to them that will believe in him.  
As touching the multitude of vain & superstitious Ceremonies, 
Apolog.  we know that Augustine did grievously complain of them in his own tyme.  
What said he of them? 
Confut.  How sore did he complain? What one example did he bring of them, that you might guess, the Ceremonies which you have abrogated, to be of like sort with those of which he complained? Why make ye the Reader to suppose or believe, that S. Augustin did love as few ceremonies as ye do? Or why teach you him not, out of S. Austin, how to discern what is vain, what is fruitful? Let the truth be opened, and your vanity will soon appear.  
S. Augustine doth so grievously complain, and he is so ready to diminsh the numbered of Ceremonies, that the greatest papist in the world, would not ask more favour in the question and cause of them. First if the Scripture doth allow any order or fashion, it is not vain. If the whole Church hath generally received any, it is not vain. If it be but a particular Ceremony of one country, and be not against the faith or good manners, it is not vain. Yea if any thing be in it which helpeth to amendment of life, it is not vain.  
By so many ways, and for so many causes, a ceremony may well continue, as ye shall find in that very epistle of S. Augustin: 
Epi. 119. c. 18. & 19  And had you the face so to allege this holy Doctors complaining of ceremonies, as though he would have as few as you? What Sacrament have you, about which ye do occupy oil? What think you of the fast of lent? What of Alleluia betwixt Easter and Witsontide? What use have you of any Octaves? 
Cap. 7. 15. 18.  Yet of these Ceremonies, he maketh mention in the foresaid Epistle, and reckoneth that they are to be used and regarded.  
Gregory etc. if the Church, saith he, shall depend upon one man, 
Apolog.  it will at once fall down to the ground.  
Ye bely him shamefully, he hath no such words at al. 
Conf. 203  Yet the protestant may think this impossible, that you should have no more regard of your honesty. Let him seek then, if he be learned, and judge by his own senses, whether any such proposition is there to be found. But is there not a like unto it? Ye as, so like as Rome is to Constantinople, or Gregory S. Peter's successor, to Nestorius of Constantinople an heretic. For if a man should seek for his life, to find in that epistle, but some resemblance of that which the Apology reporteth, he findeth no more but this which I shall declare for th'unlearned sake.  
john bishop of Constantinople affected the title of Universal bishop. S. Gregory then Pope of Rome, complaineth thereof to Mauritius the Emperor, declaring good causes and reasons, why such presumption should not be suffered. Among other he maketh this argument. 
Lib. 4. epist. 3●.  Surely we have known many Prelates of the Church of Constantinople, to have fallen into the gulf of heresy, and to have been not only heretics, but arch-heretics also. Now for example, he nameth Nestorius and Macedonius: then bringeth he in, thereupon this conclusion. If therefore in that church (undoubtedly of Constantinople) any pull unto himself that name (of Universal bishop) ergo (which hath been the judgement of all good men) the whole church (which God forbidden) falleth from her state, when he falleth which is called Universal.  
An excellent argument undoubtedly. For if the only or Universal bishop should be at Constantinople, that see having no privilege of continuing still in the right faith (as appeareth by the arch-heretics, which sat there) and all the world being bound to obey the Universal bishop, this one absurdity granted, a thousand would follow, and that one Bishop erring, all the whole Church should go a stray. Lo this is all that may seem to give any occasion of reporting that which the Apology hath attributed to S. Gregory.  
And where find we here, that if the church depend upon one man▪ it must at once fall down to the ground? Will they yet defend their lying? Or dare they yet still abuse the old fathers? ●s the Church, and that Church, all one in concluding? Is depending upon one man, and that man, all a like? The successor of S. Peter, and Bishop in that chair, in which never yet was found any arch-heretic to set forth naughty doctrine, is he all one with a bishop of Constantinople▪ which neither succeedeth any Apostle, and hath been a defender of heresies? let us see now therefore whether you will confess your error in mistaking S. Gregory: Or maintain your impudency in misusing of him.  
The bishops (saith Bernard) who now have the charge of God's church, 
Apolog.  are not teachers, but deceivers, they are not feeders, but begilers, they are not prelates but pilate's. These words spoke Bernard of y● B. who nameth himself the highest Bishop of all, & of that other Bishops, likewise which then had the place of government.  
How then? 
Confut.  Did S. Bernard forsake all papistry and abandon the Pope, because of those fa●ltes which he found? If he did, why tarried he in his monks coat unto his death? If he did not, what unwise men be you, to for sake the Church for evil manners sake?  
But consider further. Whom called he deceivers▪ beg●●ers, pilates? All the whole order of bishops and governors of the Church from the Pope downward? Or spoke he of some certain only? If he noted but some certain, and ●hē worthily: those other some, which were not infected might well preserve the state of the Church in truth of manners and doctrine, that ye need not to fear an utter destruction 〈◊〉 it, and so through wretched folly departed out of it. If he spoke generally of all, then will I confess that ye are not so much to be blamed; for your departing from that Church, nor for any your applieing of S. Bernard's Authority to that purpose. But because I am sure this is false, therefore I charge you, and blame you.  
How prove I this? I prove it by those very books, in which (as you say) the foresaid words, against the Pope and bishops, are. For concerning Eugenius himself, he saith in the third book, after much complaint or reproof made of the evil manners of the Court of Rome, Haec ad te, 
Berna. de Cons. lib▪ 3  non de te scribo. I writ this unto thee, not of thee. And immediately, he declareth by example, how Eugenius refused bags of money, which came out of Germany and condemned a great rich bishop (by likelihood) notwithstanding his money. And how he gave of his own unto an other poor bishop to give unto the officers in the Court, lest the bishop should seem niggish and uncourteous, if he should have nothing rewarded them. Now Doth it grieve thee to hear this? And I (ꝙ S. Bernard) do tell it so much the more gladly, by how much thou hearest it the more grievously. The Pope the● himself was none of those deceivers, begilers or pilate's, whom you mention.  
Forth then: were all the Cardinals and Bishops, deceivers etc. No, neither all they, as you may read it proved in the fourth book of that work, by the examples of two great Legates. The one was Cardinal Martin, 
Cardinal Martin.  which being sent legate into Dacia, a country full of gold and silver, returned yet so poor, that for lack of money and horses, he could scarce reach unto Florence. The bishop of which place gave him an horse, without mention making of any matter to be done for it. Yet the legate and Cardinal Martin, was 〈◊〉 sooner at Rome, but the bishop of Florence came also thither: And seeking the fau●● of his friends in a certain cause of his ow● at length he cometh to Cardinal Martin. Yea (saith he) Decepisti me. Nescieb●tibi imminere negotium. tolle equum tuū● ecce in stabulo est. you have deceived me, I knew not ye had any suit in hand. Take your horse to you, lo, yonder he is in the stable. This is one, and he, I trust no deceiver or Pilate.  
An other, 
Cardinal Gau●rid.  is Gaudfridus bishop of Cartres, which many years together was at his own charges Ambassador and legate from the Pope in the costs of Gascoigne. Of whom he telleth, that there was a sturgeon brought unto him by a certain priest, but I will not take him (said the Cardinal) except I pay for him. Again, a Lady of the town where he lodged, brought unto him for devotion and good will, three treen dishes with a towel, he beh●ld them, he praised them, but in any case he would not take them. And at both these times S. Bernard was present. And saith hereupon unto Eugenius: O that we might have store of such men given unto us, as thes were, whom I briefly have spoken of.  
If therefore the Pope himself was good, and some Cardinals and bishops were holy men, how can you without impudency draw S. Bernard to such 〈◊〉 sense, as though he should condemns the whole See and Church of Rome● And if (as I said before) you think him not to speak generally, what helpeth it your cause, in departing from the Church, to prove that some Prelates be Pilat's?  
Secondly, I might well and truly say, that S. Bernard speaketh against the manners of the Court of Rome, and not against the faith of the Church of Rome. And though he should name the Pope for his evil behaviour, which he doth not, a Pilate: yet concerning his Authority and office, he giveth unto him all the titles of excellency, that are found in the Scriptures, from Abel to Christ. Affirming beside, him to be the shepherd, not only of sh●pe, but of all other shepherds also▪ and, Others to have been called to take part of the cure, but him to have fullness of power, with other such words more, of like sense.  
Thirdly I answer, he never spoke so unreverently of the Pope in all his works. And that the testimony which you allege, is not in the books ad Eugenium.  
The old Father Epiphanius saith, 
Apolog.  it is an horrible wickedness, 
Epiph.  and a sin not to be suffered, 
Hear. 61.  for any man to set up any picture of Christ himself.  
See how these fellows can amplify and ●et forth a lie? 
Confut.. ●35.  Epiphanius, they think, taketh for them, and therefore they dress ●im in their own colours. Ye find not in hī●either these grievous and mighty ter●es, horrible wickedness, and Sin ●ot to be suffered. Neither these precise ●onclusions, that any man shall not set ●p any picture: Neither this aggravating addition, of Christ himself. He speaks quietly, and he speaketh not generally, but against a certain kind of Images, or honour done to them, as appeareth by the words istiusmodi vela, such kin● of veils. And he prescribeth nothing against the Image of our Saviour Christ●  
If ye will not leave this place, but pro●● that it maketh against Images, Pluck●● out first these lies, and repair the testimony, making it neither better neither worse than Epiphanius doth permit you, and then shall you be otherwise answered.  
The old fathers Origen & Chriysos●● exhort the people to read the scriptures, 
Apolog.  to buy them books, to reason at home betwixt themselves of divine matters, wi●es with their husbands, & parents with their children. These men condemn the scriptures as dead ●lements, And, as much as eue● they may, bar the people from them.  
Ye join these two Fathers together as though they both confirmed your lies. 
Confut. 236.  But Origene neither speaketh of byeing books, 
Ho. 9 in Levit ca ●16.  nsither of reasoning at home 〈◊〉 the scriptures, but of coming to church and hearing the scriptures, and of thinking afterwards at home, upon the keeping of them in mind, and following them.  
Then as concerning S. Chrysostom, he speaketh against such as neglected the reading of Scriptures, and thought this to he a sufficient excuse, for them that they were no Monks: 
Ho. 2. in Matth.  as who should sa●e, we have wife, children and household, with other things beside to think upon, and therefore it is not our vocation to look in the law of God, and by that to amend our lives.  
He speaketh likewise against other, which loved to have fair and trim books of the Gospel, for ostentation sake, not to read them and profit by them. Of which sort there may be found, at this present, some in the world, which living loosely, and regarding their soul's health slenderly, carry yet the testament or some part thereof bound up in golden forel, and hang it about their necks like a jewel. But as for the biing of Scriptures, he spaketh it by occasion only, in reproving such as had books in their cupboards, and no understanding or sense of them in their mind.  
For after he had said: 
Hom. 3●. in loan.  This having of books cometh of the jewish ambition and craking, unto whom the commandments were given in letters, and unto us not so, but in the tables of our heart, which are of flesh, lest he should seem to derogate somewhat hereby unto the written Scriptures, he addeth: yet I do not forbid it to get books, yea rather I pray you most earnestly get them, but so, that we may repere often in our mind, both the letters and sense the of them. He was not therefore so careful of it, that every man should buy the scripture: but this he studied for, that every man should be diligent in bearing away of the scriptures readen▪ or preached in the open church.  
Prove ye now that S. Chrysostom exhorted all and singular of his people, to buy them books, especially in the vulgar tongue. And judge ye whether he had so little discretion to mo●e all thereunto, which very few could bring to pass, the rarity and price of the written books being considered.  
Now as concerning the other lie, that wives at home with their husbands, or children with their parents should reason betwixt themselves of divine matters: either I understand not your english, or else ye abuse S. Chrysostom most shamefully. For if ye mean, that all that reasoning (which you imagine) signifieth no more, but that the father should instruct his son, and the wife give ear to her husbands good counsel, then surely you must pardon me, I never understood this much before, that reasoning of divine matters should have so little question in it. But if reasoning betwixt parties doth import an argueing to and fro, with objections, solutions, replies, resolutions, devices, suppositions, etc. And if reasoning of divine matters, doth signify the question proponed not to be of so small gear, as the child's education, or the woman's silence which she ought to keep at home, but of the Trinity, Incarnation of Christ▪ value of Sacraments, justification, predestination, etc. Do ye make S. Chrysostom so unlike himself, that ye woul● permit a disputation of Divinity, betwixt the man, his wife, and his boy?  
Such Schools in deed kept the Waldenses, and as though it had been nothing worth except the world did know it, 
Act. and Monuments. 673  they brought forth their young children so well instructed in Divinity, tha● they were able to appose and answer one the other in no trifling questions. But S. Chrysostom's meaning is altogether otberwises: and he would have lai● men to read the Scriptures at home, in manner of repeating, not of reading or making a lesson. And that they should remember and call to mind such things as they had learned of the bishop, and not study themselves upon any text at all, as though they must be preachers, T● edifiel also themselves and others by following a good life, not by seeking a new conclusion of Doctrine.  
How prove ye also, that he speaketh of the whole Bible, to be bought and readen? For the easy parts thereof, may be put into the people's hands, but the whole in no wise. The Greek text also was not nor is not so corrupt, as your english translations. And to be short the people are now more proud and bold, then at those days they were. For then, with unwashed hands they were afraid to touch only the Scriptures: and now they take upon them to interpret them in shops, alehowses, wagons, and feariebotes.  
The ancient Fathers, 
Apolog.  Cyprian, Epiphanius, and Hierom say, it is better for one, who, perchance, hath made a vow to lead a sole life, and afterward liveth unchastely, and can not quench the flames of ●uste: to marry a wife and live honestly in wedlock.  
Concerning S. Cyprian, 
Conf. 237  by his own words I will prove that ye misconstre him. If they (saith he speaking of virgins in general) have by faith and promise dedicated themselves unto Christ, 
Lib. 1. Epist. 11.  let them continued honestly and chastened, that no tales be made of them. And so being strong and steadfast, let them look for the reward of virginity. But if they will not or can not continued, better it is that they marry, than fall, through their lusts and delights, into the fire.  
This is the place, and how do ye now understand it? If ye refer it to virgins in general, that is truly said in deed: ●ary it serveth not your purpose, to prove by S. Cyprian, that nuns may marry. If ye refer it to virgins already professed, th●● doth the one part of the sentence destroy the other, and it is impossible, tha● both should hang together.  
For if, according to your sense, virgins after vow made, might laufulli● marry: how standeth the former parte● the sentence, defining, that if they hau● dedicated themselves unto Christ, le● them continue? And when this precept is to be observed of virgins professed, how can it follow by any reason, that the self same persons, should have it so suddenly granted unto them: That if they can not or will not continue, better it is to marry? S. Cyprian therefore speaketh of such, as are free to choose either this or that, and not of such as are past choosing.  
And again, if the place were understanded as you say, then might nuns marry, not only when they can not quench the flames of their lust, but also if they will not. For if they can not or will not (saith S. Cyprian) better it is that they marry, then fall through their lusts and delights, into the fiere. But this is incredible, that so good a man would give a licence so evil: ergo you do mistake S. Cyprian.  
Concerning S. Jerome, 
Ad Demetriadē●e virginitate ●er ●anda.  whom in like manner ye have abused: his words are. The name of certain, which behave not themselves well doth defame the purpose of holy virgins, and of the heavenly and Angelical company. Unto whom (which whom? Undoubtedly such as lived among virgins, not yet professing virginity, but intending and purposing it only) it must be plainly said, that either they marry if they can not contain, or contain if they will not marry.  
Now that there is such a distinction of virgins to be made, it appeareth most evidently by S. Hieroms' own words not twenty lines before this place, saying. But let this pertain to those virgins which have not yet chosen virginity, and need exhortation, that they may know what it is, that they ought to choose. (this is, to virgins not yet professed: but in the person of the professed, it followeth) OF US, the things, which we have chosen, are to be kept. Therefore ye know, what followeth: that ye have abused S. Jerome, because he permitteth not marriage to such as have already made a vow of virginity.  
Last of all, as touching Epiphanius, these be his words: 
Epipha, haere●●. .71.  The holy Apostles of God have left this tradition unto us, that it is a sin to turn to marriage, post decretam virginitatem, after virginity decreed and determined. And the Apostle writeth: 
1. Cor 7.  If a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. How then agreeth this with that? That is to say, if this be true, that a urigin may marry, how agreeth it with the Tradition of the Apostles, that It is a sin for a virgin to turn to marriage? Epiphanius answereth by expounding the Apostle in these words.  
Illam dicit quae non est Deo dicata, The Apostle (in saying, that if a virgin marry, she doth not sin) speaketh of that virgin, which is not dedicated unto God. Ergo he is not contrary to the foresaid Tradition of the Apostles, by which such virgins are forbidden to marry, as have vowed their virginity. Ergo, to say further: They which account marriage to be unclean (as the Apostolici did, against whom Epiphanius there writeth) agree not with the Apostle. And further, they that say, a virgin may marry after she hath made a vow, (as the compilers of the Apology do falsely gather) are contrary to the tradition of th' Aposples, and to Epiphanius most evident resolution, which I have shortly declared.  
By this it will appear, whether the ancient fathers be well used of the Apology, whereas S. Cyprian, S. Hierom and Epiphanius, whom so closely they name, for witnesses, do so manifestly testify against them that none must marry after they have dedicated their virginity unto God.  
The ancient Emperor justinian, commanded, 
Apolog.  that in the holy administration all things should be pronounced with a clear, loud & treatable voice, that the people might receive some fruit thereby. These men lest the people should understand them, mumble up all their service, not only with a drowned & hollow voice, but also in a strange and barbarous tongue.  
First you make the Emperor to speak of 
Con. 242  the holy administration, not telling us either what or whereof? For there is an holy adminstration of all the seven sacraments, and in other things also which the church observeth, as hallowing of churches, of paschal taper, of palma, of ashes, and in bu●iyng of the dead. But the decree is referred to the holy oblation or sacrifice, the truth of which as ye will not believe, so the very s●und of the word ye can not well abide. Secondly th'emperor speaketh not of some fruit as you say (as though no profit c●me of th'oblation, if the priest spoke not aloud) but of more devotion to be stirred thereby. giving us to understand that all is not lost, though nothing be hard, but somewhat is won, when the sense is more stirred. Thirdly your surmise that we therefore speak with a hollow voice, lest the people should understand us, is unsensible. For neither the clergy should lose any thing, if the people were learned: Nor the people should understand much, spoke they latin never so loud. And heretics would utter the secrets of our service were we never so wary: And no charitable man will suspect it of the whole Church, that they envy the people's commodity. Then, as for mumbling up the Service, the Catholics do in their most chiefest Churches, sing and say more distinctly and treatably, than any protestants do. And (I fear) if Service were so song in England, as the Dominicans, Augustine's, franciscans, and Carthusians do use, many of the most fervent in spirit, would complain upon the leisure and treatablenes, that were taken in it.  
fourthly the Latin is no strange or barbarous tongue, as being the most common in this west part of the world, and one of the three principal and learned tongues.  
Pope julius doth evidently forbid, 
Apolog.  that a Priest in ministering the Communion should dip the bread in the cup. These men contrary to Pope julius decree, divide the bread and dip it in the wine.  
He doth it so evidently, 
Confut. 243.  that it is not at all, to be seen in his decree. Show it, that he forbiddeth the Priest to dip the bread in the Cup (as we use in our mysteries) and ye shall be honest men. But he speaketh, 
De consec distin. 2. cunomne  not of the manner of the Priests using or receiving the Sacrament, but only of ministering of the host dipped in the blood, unto the people, which neither at this day is allowed. You must serve us no more with such sops dipped in lies.  
Pope Clement saith, 
Apolog.  it is not lawful for a Bishop, to deal with both swords. For if thou wilt have both, saith he, thou shalt deceive both thyself and those that obey thee. Now a days, the Pope challengeth both sword, and useth them both. Wherefore it ought to seem less marvel, if that have followed which Clement saith, that is, that he hath deceived both his own self, and those which have given ear unto him.  
It is not lawful for you so desperately to make lies. 
Con. 245  For how is not this desperately done, to say that of any man, which 〈◊〉 not be proved by him? The Pope sayeth, Si mundialibus curis fueris occupatus, if thou be occupied in worldly cares. And the Apology maketh him to say, 〈◊〉 utrumque habere vis, if thou wilt have both sword. If Cura signify a sword, and mundialis signify two, Or if Occupari curis be, to occupi two swords, then hath the Apology given a great blow to the Papists. But whereas no such construction can be made, it hath fought, in this place, not only without 〈◊〉 sword, but also without a scabbard: because there is no such word in Pope Clement, in which they may put any of the two sword that they draw out of his testimony.  
Nazianzen pronounced openly that he never had seen any good end of any council. 
Apolog.   
He spoke of the provincial Counsels. And he spoke also of his own time, 
Confut. 278.  i● which, heretics did commonly deceive princes, and by force set up their new devices. But he was not so unwise, as to mislike with General Counsels, or to give an example to the posterity, of extreme and unreasonable disobedience.  
In old time when the Church of God (if we will compare it with their Church) was very well governed, 
Apolog.  both elders & Deacons, as saith Cyprian, & certain also of the common people were called unto Councils, and made acquainted with ecclesiastical matters.  
What were these, certain of the people, whom ye would prove, by S. Cyprian, to have been called to Counsels? By this word certain, you signify, that there was an order taken, who should come, who should not come. And you make your Reader to conceive, that out of the common people, some were chosen, which should be present at Counsels, as though that had been material in the Primitive Church.  
But S. Cyprian saith no such thing, that any at all of the people, 
Cypr. in Sententiis Con. Carthaginensis.  were called to the Council, but only this, that when many bishops, at the first day of September, were assembled together at Crathage, with their Priests and Deacons, the most part of the people were also present. But who sent 〈◊〉 them? Or who thought their presence necessary? or how make you, the presence of the most part, to be, a calling o● certain of the people? By like reason you might say, that in all causes, where either a spiritual or temporal lord is examined, the people are called to the hearing of it, because they are very prone to understand news, and are not forbiddeth to stand by, and here what is done in open Court.  
At the coming of Christ, 
Apolog.  of God his word, of the ecclesiastical doctrine, and of the full destruction of Ninive, and of that most beautiful harlot, then shall the people which heretofore had been cast in a ●raunce under their masters, be raised up, and shall make haste to go to the mountains of Scripture.  
I note, 
Confut. .331.  in this testimony of S. Hierom, your lying sprit●, and sprity she spite. For whereas he speaketh, not of the Church of Rome, but of the universal state of the world which is signified by Ninive, and whereas you care not what come of the world, so that the church of Rome may be defaced: of that, which was but one in S. Jerome, you have made two things, and turn that one, which is altogether of your own making, to the setting forth of your procedings.  
For S. Hierom speaketh of the destruction of Ninive, 
In come. in Nah. cap. 3.  speciosissimae quondam meritricis, of Ninive which was once a most beautiful harlot: and you make him to speak of Ninive, & speciosissimae meretricis, of Ninive, and the most beautiful harlot, as though that Ninive were one thing, and the beautiful harlot were an other. Yet because this was not plain enough for your purpose, you give S. Jerome the spirit of prophesy. And verily you think he meant to foretell of the most gorgeous harlot Babylon: So that the beautiful harlot must not be understanded now of Ninive peculiarly (as S. Jerome applieth it) but of the whore of Babylon. Which by the interpretation of the whorish heretics is the See of Rome.  
judge now whether this be to interpret S. Hierom, or to make a tale of their own, by the gift of their lying Spirit.  
From thence saith S. Cyprian spring schisms & sects, 
Apolog.  because men seek not the head, & have not their course to the Fountain of the Scriptures, and keep not the rules given by the heavenly teacher.  
Where hath S. Cyprian these words? Or where speaketh he of the fountains of the Scripture? 
Confut. .347  Or the Original of truth: Of seeking to an head: Of the doctrine of the Heavenly teacher. He speaketh in the treatise De simplicitate Praelatorum, or unitate Ecclesiae, and he bringeth all those three points to this end, that Christ made Peter the head of his Church. But of those fountains of Scriptures, we can not tell whe● he speaketh, and we know you so well by this time, that we can not believe you, except ye show it.  
The Evangelists and the Apostles & Prophets sayings show us sufficiently, 
Apolog.  what opinion we ought to have of the will of God.  
This is a true saying, 
Confut. .313.  yet Theodorete speaketh not of the will of God generally, but, 
lib. 1. ca 7.  〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, of the Godhead. For the controversy was then, between the catholics and Arrians, about the Consubstantiality of God the Son with his Father: And therefore interpret him better, or use not his Authority.   

The 5. Chapter, declaring how Counsels are belied and abused in the Apology of the Church of England.  
According to the judgement of the Nicen Council, 
Apolog.  we say, that the Bishop of Rome hath no more jurisdiction over the Church of God, than the rest of the patriarchs of Alexandria or Antiochia have.  
The Canon is: 
Conf. 50.  Let the ancient custom continue in force, which he is it Egypt, Libya and Pentapoli, that the bishope of Alexand●ia have power over them all, for as much as the bishop o● Rome hath thus used. In these words, (for as much as the Bishop of Rome hath thus used) appeareth manifestly the prerogative of the Bishop of Rome, as from whose manner and custom they take an example of their doings.  
For if it should be so understanded, that because the Bishop of Rome hath power over the country about him, therefore the bishop of Alexandria, and not the bishop of Antiochia, should ●ule Egypt, Libya, and Pentapoly: that hangeth no better together, than if you should say, let the Bishop of Canterbury be Archbishop of Yorkshire or Ireland, because the Bishop of Rome hath power over the countries about him. And although this Argument may seem to conclude à Simili, thus (as, the Bishop of Rome ruleth his Country, so let every Metropolitan in like manner bear rule over his own Country) yet to appoint by name, either Eygpte to the bishop of Alexandria, or Ireland to the Bishop of Canterbury, that must depend of some other cause, and not of this, that the Bishop of Rome hath jurisdiction in Italy.  
Now consider the matter as the truth is, that the Bishop of Rome hath supreme authority among all bishops, and then it followeth by good reason, that the Bishop of Alexandria shall rule Egypt, because the Bishop of Rome hath so used. That is, because it is so appointed and so received at Rome, that Egypt, Libya and Pentapolis should pertain to the Bishop of Alexandria: therefore let that order continue.  
And this is the meaning of the Nicene Council, and this maketh for the Pope's Supremacy, and this proveth you to belie the Nicene Council, which hath not at all, any such words as you mention, that he hath, no more jurisdiction over the Church, than the rest of the patriarchs.  
The Council of Carthage, 
Apolog.  did circumspectly provide, that no Bishop should be called, either the high bishop, or Chief Priest.  
The Council doth not say (No bishop) but, 
Conf. 53.  A Bishop of a first See, shall not be called Chief of Priests or highest Priest. For whereas there be other priests beside in the world, which are not subject unto his see: reason it is, that his title extend itself to no more than those that are under his jurisdiction. Also this Canon was for the bishops of the provinces of Aphrica. And last of all it extendeth itself, only to the first sees, which are many according to the numbered of Countries, and not to the Apostolic See, and chief above all, which is but one.  
The Council of Nice, 
Apolog.  as is alleged by some in greek, plainly forbiddeth us to be basely affectiovated or bend toward the Bread and Wine, which are set before us.  
This disproveth nothing at all the real presence of Christ in the Sacrament, 
Conf. 108  especially if you would have added that which followeth in the very self same sentence, and not have clipped so worthy a Council. For it followeth thus: But lifting up our mind, let us by faith, understand, on that holy table to be laid the lamb of God, that taketh away the sins of the world, which is sacrificed of Priests, unbloudelie: and receiving his precious body and blood verily, let us believe these to be the pledges of our resurrection.  
Therefore the Council in forbidding us to be basely affected, intended not to make us believe that Christ is in heaven only, and not also upon the Altar.  
The old Council at Rome decreed, 
Apolog.  that no man should come to the service said by a Priest well known to keep a Conucbyne.  
We find no such Canon in the old Roman Counsels. But Nicolaus and Alexander Popes, have willed, that none should hear the Mass of that Priest, whom he knoweth undoubtedly to keep ● Concubine, whereby ye may understand the mass allowed, and the lusts of the Clergy punished, and your mistaking of the Council corrected.  
The old council Gangrense, 
Apolog.  commandeth, that none should make such difference between an unmarried Priest & a married Priest, as he ought to think the one more holy than the other for single life sake.  
The words be these, 
Confut. 240.  If any make a difference of a Priest who hath been married, as though when he sacrificeth, a man might not communicate with his oblation, accursed be he. The Council therefore speaketh of such as were first married, and afterwards took priesthood upon them, and not contrariwise, of such as were first of all priests, and then afterwards did fall to marriage. In which point the objection of Catholics against you, consisteth.  
The Council at Carthage commanded, 
Apolog.  nothing to be read in Christ's congregation, but the Canonical Scriptures.  
Why read you then Homilies of your own making? 
Conf. 24●  But to the matter. The words of the council are these. It hath seemed good unto us, that besides the Canonical Scriptures nothing be red in the Church under the name of the holy Scriptures. Therefore it forbiddeth not the reading of other things, but in that sort, as they should be commended and uttered for Scripture itself. And straight ways it followeth in the same decree. Let it be lawful also for the passions and deaths of Martyrs to be read, when their yearly feasts are kept. Do you see your lie now, and will ye lowly confess it? Or are ye so froward, that ye will not see it, or are ye so cunning, that ye can defend it? Your confession or defension we are content te hear, but if you will be blind, let others behold and consider, that nothing but Canonical Scripture, and the, deaths of Martyrs to be readen also in the Church, can not both be true and stand together.  
And behold whiles I thought this objection could not possibly be refelled, it was for certainty reported unto us here by some that were present at M. jewels sermon at Paul's Cross the fifteenth of july last, that he complained that M. Doctor Harding wrongfully charged the authors of the Apology with this place, as being a manifest abusing and mangling of the third Council of Carthage. For, said he, we allege not this out of the Council of Carthage, but of the Council of Hippo.  
Did ye so in deed? Is not your Apology therein against you? Is not the Council of Carthage both named in the Text, and noted in the margin thereof? Your Latin is thus. 
In Apol. Ecclesi. Angl.  Vetus Concilium Carthaginense jubet, ne quid in Sacro coetulegatur, praeter scripturas Canonicas, and in the margin, thus it is noted. Tertium Carth. ca 47. And the English interpretation hath thus: The old Council at Carthage commanded nothing to be readen in Christ's congration, but the Canonical Scriptures: and there likewise in the margin ye put Concil. Car. 3. cap. 47.  
How dare ye then so loudly to lie, that ye alleged the foresaid place out of the Council of Hippo, and not the Council of Carthage? It appeareth well, that Doctor Harding hath ye upon the hip, when to save yourselves from the fall, ye deny your own words. 
In his reply to D. Cole.  And wonder it is, that M. jewel would ever be the reporter of such an answer, 
In his reply to D Harding .157.  whereas himself hath used this very place of the Council of Carthage to like effect and purpose, as ye have used it in your Apology. Especially whereas there is no Council of Hippo extant at all, unto which yet ye refer yourselves. Consider therefore (Indifferent reader) of this place, and suffer not thyself so to be abused, that they shall make thee believe, that they alleged not that Council, which thou mayest see with thy own eyes to be named and quoted in their Apology, and that they followed the Canons of the Council of Hippo of which they can show no Canons at all, that are extant.  
In the Council at Chalcedone, 
Apolog.  & Civil Magistrate condemned for Heretics by the sentence of his own mouth, the Bishops, Dioscorus, Juvenal, and Thalasius, and gave judgement to put them from that promotion in the Church.  
In what part of that Council, 
Conf. 315.  may one find this which you report? In the third Action we do read, that Paschasius with his two fellows the Legates of the Pope of Rome, pronounced the sentence of condemnation against Dioscorus, the form whereof is fully there expressed. How then? Shall we think, that one of the Pope's Legates was a Civil Magistrate? Or that the Civil Magistrate condemned Dioscorus again by the sentence of his own mouth, when he was sufficiently judged, by the whole Council of bishops? Ye have many fetches, yet you can not but be convinced in this place of an impudent lie, or extreme folly.  
The most that ye might say (as far as we can reach) is, that the Civil magistrate subscribed unto the sentence of the Council, and by his voice also condemned Dioscorus for an heretic. But this is not enough for you, to save your honesties. For you must declare, that the civil magistrate, not only condemned them, by his testimony or assent, but also by his sentence, and not such a sentence only as might concur with the judgements of the Superiors (like as every bishop in a general Council giveth sentence in causes Ecclesiastical. But it is included within that one sentence which the chiefest in all the Council do allow and give) but you must prove, that the civil mgistrat gave the sentence with his own mouth. For so ye speak as though he had been the the best man in the place and precedent of the Council.  
To this of Dioscorus that ye may answer the more fully, I will not trouble yo● with Juvenal and Thalassius, whom ye have also belied in this matter, bishops of an other sort than Dioscorus was, although you have condemned them together.   

The Sixth Chapter wherein is noted, how the Apology belieth and abuseth the Scriptures themselves.  
It was said indifferently to all the Apostles, 
Apolog.  Feed eye.  
YOu mean, 
Conf. 48.  I am assured, the one and twenty of S. john, in which chapter yet, there is no mention at all, of the plural number, with Feed ye: but, to S. Peter alone feed thou (saith jesus) my lambs, feed thou my sheep. Whether have you a Gospel not yet known to the world, in which Christ saith indifferently to all his Apostles, feed ye?  
Woe unto you Scribes and Pharseiss, 
Apol.  which have taken away the keys of knowledge, and have shut up the kingdom of heaven before men.  
The Scripture saying, 
Conf. 72.  that one jot or title of the law shall not pass, until all be fulfilled, a changing of the numbered in any place of the Gospel, must not be thought to be unworth the noting. 
Lu●●. 11.  Of the key of knowledge Christ spoke, and not of keys in the plural number.  
Paul saith, 
apollo.  that the time should be, when men should not away with wholesome doctrine, but be turned back unto ●ables and lies, and that within the very Church.  
And that within the very Church? 
Conf. 20●.  Where find ye these words in S. Paul? That men should not away with wholesome doctrine, it is to be found in the fourth chap. of the second to Timothe. And it is verified in all heretics: but that S. Paul ●hould refer those words to the very Church itself, it is impudently attributed to the Apostle.  
And to grant unto you as much as might be, for excuse of your words, that in some sense it might be true, that even within the very Church men should not away with wholesome Doctrine: that is, that although many, for their understanding dissented not from it, yet in their living they should impugn it: Yet, to say as you do, that S. Paul doth expound his words of the very Church, it is altogether boldly, and falsely affirmed.  
God, 
Apolog.  by his Prophets often and earnestly commandeth the King etc. To write out the book of the Law for himself.  
Ye bring this place to prove, 
Conf. 303  that temporal Princes have as much to do with Religion, as Bishops and Priests. For the King (say you) must write out the Law. 
Deut. 17.  But why leave ye out that which followeth, accipiens exemplar, taking the Copy of the Priests of the Tribe of Levy? By which words it is clearly perceived, that it is not in the Kings hands to meddle with Scriptures, but as he receiveth them of his betters (in that authority) the Priests.  
King joas bridled the riot and arrogancy of the Priests. 
Apol.   
We find no such words in the text, 
Conf. 307  4. Reg. 12.  
joshua received commandments, 
apollo.  specially touching religion.  
We have readen the whole Chapter joshua 1. 
Confut. .305.  and we find no such specialties there, but only that he should pass over jordane, And divide the land of Promise, and be of good comfort and strength, with other like words, all to the Temporal Government of the people: but, of Religion, Sacrifice, Praying for the people, expounding the Law etc. no one sentence. Yea rather (as it appeareth in the first setting of him, in his office) the scripture saith expressly, 〈◊〉 any thing be to be done for this joshua, Eleazar the Priest shall ask counsel 〈◊〉 the Lord. 
Nu, 27.  At his word (undoubtedly at the Priests) he shall go forth and come in etc. Which of the two than 〈◊〉 nearer to God, and worthier by his office? He that speaketh himself with God, or he that heareth God his word by any interpretatour? He which giveth the commandment, or he which must obey it?  
Do no more so, with the scriptures, and if none shall let you, to make your own sense upon them: yet never take so much upon you, to put in the text itself, which is not of the Scripture. And further consider, whether this be not to add and take away from the Scripture, to make that of the plural number, which is of the singular only: To suppress those words which being put in, do dissolve the kno● of the question: To put that in, which is not at all in the text: To allege sayings that can not be found: And to misconstrue sentences that are found. And then, when you have considered all this, confer therewith, that which ye find in the Apocalypse of S. john, that, If any man add unto these things, 
Apo vl.  God shall lay upon him the plagues that are written in this book. And if any man diminish of the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy City, and from these things which are written in this book.   

The 7. Chapter, containing the flat lies of the Apology.  
There have been wittily procured by the Bishop of Rome certain persons of eloquence enough, 
Apolog.  & not unlcarned neither, which should put their help to his cause now almost desperate.  
NAme the Pope which hath procured them: 
Confut. 9  Name the Person which have been procured, and ye shall either confess your faults, or stand guilty for two lies.  
Prove also, that he wylely procured any men to help his cause: because this word wylely maketh your lie and slander more grievous. For either you mean, that he did it indeed, and that he would not be seen to do it, either that he did it boldly and manifestly, but yet used a witty and subtle mean unto it.  
Concerning the first, he needed not to be ashamed to defend his cause. He might boldly without reproach choose any of the learned and eloquent catholics for that purpose. For, the faith which the whole Church openly confesseth▪ what dishonesty at all is it, to command aloud, that the best learned should declare it, and by declaring of it commend it, that when just cause is given of it, it may be known for a truth sufficiently, proved.  
Concerning the second, it were a small part of policy, to labour by a fancy to persuade the whole world in a falsity.  
Prince's desirous to restrain the gospel sought many ways, 
Apolog.  but prevailed nothing: & now almost the whole world doth begin to open their eyes to behold the light.  
What place hath your gospel in Spain? 
Conf. 1●  What place in Italy? What success hath your gospel in France? When Lady Marie was once proclaimed Queen, how prevailed your preaching? Did ye not flee beyond sea into free Cities? And why into those more than into any other? but because ye prevail not with Princes, but such as call you to their favour, of whom yet there are so few, and so weak in all Christendom that in the rekning they make a little somme. And now (say you) the whole world almost, doth begin to open their eyes. A worshipful beginning after xv● years. But why say ye not (without almost) that all the whole world beginneth to open their eyes? You have a conscience (I trow) in making a lie and therefore you add almost. How much then lacketh I pray you? If Lo●ā, Paris, Bonony, Padua, Salamanca, Cōplu●ū and other great Universities, but small ●ortiōs of the whole, if these were lightened by your gospel, would ye put out your almost?  
What mean ye by this almost? Perchance all is overcomed with you, saving Rome itself, and the small Cities about it. Nay, have ye not great and Princely states, (as of Florence, Urbine, Genua, Ferrara, Milan, Venice, Trevers, Mentes, Colone, Salisburg, and the Catholic Cantones) And sundry Countries (as bavarie, Savoy, Burgundy, Lorraine, Brabrant, Flaunders, Holland, Artoys, Henaut, Friesland, Guelderland, Cleveland, Prussia, Carinthia,) And many Islands, (as Sicilia, Corsica, Sardinia, Maltha and the Zelands) And many kingdoms (as Naples, France, Spain, Pole, Bohemia, Hungary, and Portugal) and the Empire itself, which see well enough how dark your gospel is? But no matter for these small pieces.  
What say you then to the new Indians, which alone are greater, than all, whom we have reckoned? If you lack but them alone, have you all the world all most? No: This is so great a lie, that ● might turn it backward, and say: the whole world almost doth defy your Gospel.  
All their travail hath in a manner come to nought. 
Apolog.   
How say you to the late general Council, 
Conf. 15.  which had so wondered good success, and which is so executed in Rome itself, that not only the bishops, but Cardinals also are sent to their cures, and go obediently unto them.  
No body driving it forward, and without any worldly help.  
King Harry the eight then, is no body with you, the Duke of Saxony, Landgrave of Hesse, King Edward the sixth, the Villains of Boheme, the Hugonites of France. etc. All these than are no body.  
On the other side our cause against the will of Emperors.  
If Charles alone had not given more to clemency (which overcometh, most of all, noble personages when they have the greatest victory) than to justice: where had the Dukes of Saxony and other your defenders been?  
From the beginning against the wills of so many Kings.  
Every Anabaptist in Brabant or Scotland, liveth against the Princes will, because he generally wisheth every heretic out of the way, for fear of infecting the good Chistians: yet there is another will in Princes, which if they would follow, no heretic could have peeped up in all Christendom, but he should have been quickly dispatched.  
In spite of the Popes.  
That is true in one sense, because in deed very spite hath moved divers men to refuse his authority: but in an other it is false. For if he (for example) had stomached the matter, he had held them for excommunicate which should have the name of King Henry in their books, like as on the contrary side it was high treason to have the name of Papa in any writing or Calendar.  
And almost maugre the head of all men, hath taken increase.  
Here again cometh in almost. No, if men had resisted it in deed, it had never been received. But partly through covetise of Church goods, partly through weariness of strait living partly through hatred of superior powers, and partly through curiosity to hear what news came out of Germany, the merchandise of heretics had an open vent.  
And by little & little spread over into all countries, and is come at the length even to princes Courts and palaces.  
Never say at length. For even from the beginning thereof it was in the Courts of Princes, as of King Henry the viii. Duke of Saxony etc. And by plain force of law, the greater part of our own country is kept yet still in it.  
The holy Fathers did always fight against the heretics with no other force, 
Apolog.  then with the holy Scriptures.  
It is false, 
Confut. 27.  as it appeareth by the first Nicene Council, declaring the consubstantiality of God the Son with his Father. The second Council at Constantinople, resorting to the writings of their for fathers for proof of the Godhead of the holy Ghost. The Council at Ephesus, defining our blessed Lady to be Deiparam, the Mother of God, and not only Christiparam, the mother of Christ: And the Council at Calchedon where the fathers cried out aloud against Eutyches (denieing the two natures in Christ, and ask in what Scriptures lay the two natures) Ea quae sunt Patrum teneantur. Those things which the Fathers have thought, let them be kept.  
If there had been any which would be but a looker on and abstain from the holy Communion, 
Apolog.  him did the old fathers and Bishops of Rome in the primative Church, before private Mass came up, excommunicate as a wicked person and as a pagan.  
How prove ye this? 
Con. 92.  Marry out of a decree of Calixtus, or as ye should say Anacletus. Yet he speaketh not of all the people, but of the clergy onli▪ which he appointeth to attend upon the Bishop at the altar: which are to say, seven, five, or three Deacons, likewise, Subdeacons, and other ministers. Neither are they excommunicated if they do not receive, but willed to be kept without the Church doors: a far less punishment, so far forth at the least, that it proveth you a liar.  
Our adversaries at this day have violently thrust out and quite forbidden the holy Communion. 
Apolog.   
They have so forbidden it, 
Conf. 9●.  that seeing th● slewth of the common people, they have made an express law, that whosoever doth not communicate at Easter, shall not be taken for a Christian.  
And besides, if it be to far for you to go to Rome itself, whereas the examples of the primitive Church continue in their best practice, you may ask of the Churches of Flanders and Brabant, and if there be not more receiving at every principal feast in the year, than is church for church, in the whole year with you, then let me be reproved. And this oft receiving of Catholic people, can not stand with a violent thrusting out, and a forbidding the holy communion, as you bely the Clergy.  
Now, if by the holy communion ye mean not, the receiving of the Sacrament as catholics use, but receiving under both kinds, neither in that sense speak you truly. For no violence was used whiles one kind only was ministered, no commandment driving the Christians at the first unto it, but their own wills and devotions allowing it: neither, by any later Canon of the Church are both kinds so quite forbidden, but that upon good advise and charitable consideration, both may be granted.  
The Bishops of Rome do carry the Sacramental bread about, 
Apolog.  upon an ambling horse whither so ever themselves journey.  
What if he would ride twelve miles or seven miles out of Rome, 
Confut. 111.  doth he carry the Sacrament with him upon an horse? No forsooth. Ergo not whether so ever he iourneieth.  
Again, how doth he carry it? In like sort, as noble men carry their necessaries with them upon Sumpter horses, or pack up in casketes trunks or males any of their singular and precious jewels? Surely the simple and plain Reader, may think upon the credit of your words, that the Pope when he rideth out of town, carrieth the Sacrament enclosed up with him, and set upon some horse, as though it were pertaining to his household provision.  
Yet the truth is far otherwise: for in solemn and great processions only, the Sacrament is cariede about.  
But, I trust, a Procession, is none of the Pope's journeys, neither must his holiness be said to ride out of town, when he goeth about the City in his Bishoppelie Ornaments for prayers sake only and devotion.  
Now when such high feasts do come, the monstrance or pix for the Sacrament being very great and massy, is set in deed upon an horse, not as a carriage of the Popes, but as containing a Sacrament of the Christians. Which, that it might be the better in sight, and with more ease carried about, therefore hath it pleased the devotion or invention of no evil men, to prepare a fair horse to carry upon his back the pix in which that body is kept under the form of bread, which disdained not to ride upon an Ass, 
Matt. 21.  when it came into Hieruselem in visible form of flesh.  
They say, 
Apolog.  and sometime do persuade fools, that they are able by their Masses to distribute and apply to men's commodity all the merits of Christ his death, yea although many times the parties think nothing of the matter, and understand full little what is done.  
Name them that do say so, 
Confut. 115.  and you shallbe discharged of a lie, and they punished for their words. For the catholics allow not these phrases: we are able to distribute by our Masses etc. As who should say, the Priest were no more a sinful man, nor an high minister, at the most under God, but were in deed a certain God, and had in his own power to pleasure whom he listeth: which is nothing so. For if we shall consider the act of the Priest as it is his own Psonal, so doth he according to his devout intention, not by authority, but by supplication, obtain a virtue and influence to come from Christ, to them for whom he specially offereth. ● But himself also being a poor wretch and compassed with infirmity, he never learned of the Church so proudly to speak as, that, I am able to do this by my Mass.  
Again, if it were true, and if the Church did so teach, that the Priest is able of his own self without ask leave, to make applications of Christ's merits, (which in deed is not so) yet to say, that he may apply all the merits of Christ's passion, is altogether impossible. For whereas there is no proportion between a finite thing and an infinite: the Priest which hath a limited Authority, and such a power as hath an end, how can he stretch it to the distributing of all the merits of Christ's death, which are endless and infinite? Therefore I say discharge yourselves.  
And concerning that absurdity by which you would increase your reader's indignation against our cause, saying, that we distribute and apply Christ's merits when the parties think nothing on the matter, that is not so unreasonable, as the unwise brother would think it. Whereas the prayers of the English congregation (if in deed God accepted them) may procure strength in the Lord, unto the brothers of France or Germany, although they were either a sleeping or drinking.  
It is a shameful part and full of infidelity, 
Apolog.  that we see every where used in the Churches of our Adversaries, that they will have innumerable sorts of mediators.  
Innumerable. 
Conf. 12●  This is one plain lie. For the Church knoweth but two, the one when the party which cometh in between to entreat and make peace, may by equality or Authority, have to do with both, of which sort Jesus' Christ alone is a mediator, being perfit God nothing inferior to his Father, and perfit Man, nothing disdaining a man: The other when by way of request only and by intercession, the friends and acquaintance of both sides speak a good word and favourable, for the party distressed, unable by themselves to commmaunde or work any thing, but by the favour and especial grace of him which hath the better. Of this sort are all the Saints of heaven a●d all good men in earth.  
And poor men can not tell to which saint it were best to turn them first. 
Apolog.   
Blessing to your heart, that you care for the poor, among whom I never hard of any, which was in the doubt, of which you speak. But if it be so in any, it may quickly be told him, that he study not long about the matter, but pray generally in short words, and say: O all ye Saints of God pray for me.  
What would these men have said, 
Apolog.  when in all Counsels new ordres & new decrees continually were devised?  
Marry we would have stood to the Catholic Counsels, 
Confut. 186.  in which new Credes from the old were never made, but the old made more plain, by expounding in plainer words the faith that was before.  
Some of the Friars, 
Apolog.  and Monks, put a great holiness in eating of fish, and some in eating of herbs, some in wearing of shows, and some wearing of Sandales, some going in a linen garment, and some in woollen.  
If by some ye mean special persons, 
Confut. .143.  I can not tell what, nor where: When ye name them to us, or will send your charitable letters to them, I warrant you they shall be spoken withal. But whereas this appertaineth not to the common cause of the Church, or the controversy and question between us, what Friar Tuck, or Don Roger do think privately, therefore if by the word one, ye mean the whole orders of Friars and Monks, and make this sense, that some orders of Friars put a great holiness in fish, and some in flesh etc. Then do most shamefully and vilely slander them.  
For S. Bernardan Abbate instructeth his Monks after this sort: Corporum conversio si sola fuerit, 
Serm. 2. in capit● jeiunij.  nulla erit: that is, the conversion of the bodies if it be nothing but that, it is nothing. And by conversion of the bodies, he meaneth (as it followeth in the sermon) the shaving of Monks, the coten, the Rule of their fasts, and appointed hours of singing. And Petrus a Soto, the divinity Reader in Oxforth, in Queen Mary's times, himself being a Dominican Friar, and keeping himself faithfully within his order, yet he made no such account of external things, as you falsely slander Monks and Friars to make. But as all learned men do, when they writ of the true worshipping of God▪ so he expressly saith with the Apostle, 
Tract. de inst● Sac. ject. 5.  That Corporal exercise is profitable to little but Piety and devotion is profitable to all things. 
●. Tim. 4.  And again. 
Rom. 14  The kingdom of God is not meat and drink, b●t justice and peace, and joy in the ●olygost. Bring you forth now on the 〈◊〉 side that Religious men put an holiness in such external ceremonies or rules, a● you specify.  
zwinglians and Lutherans vary not betwixt themselves upon the principles & foundations of our Religion▪ 〈…〉 God, 
Apolog. 1.  nor Christ, nor the Holygost, nor of the means to justification, nor yet everlasting life, but,  
Upon one only question, which is neither weighty nor great:  
Neither mistrust we or make any doubt at all,  
But they will shortly be agreed.  
They vary about the body of Christ, 
Confut. ●  the one confessing a true presence thereof in the Sacrament: The other withstanding it, and feigning, Christ to be present by figure only: This is one.  
Neither in the Sacrament only do they differ, 
Nicolaus Gallus in the sibus & hypo.  but also in questions of the law, of the Ghopel, of justification and of good works, as Nicolaus Gallus a Lutheran protesteth against them.  
Now, whether the question of Christ's presence be weighty or no, let him be judge which heareth Christ saying, Nisi manducaveritis, 
joan. 6.  except ye eat the flesh of the son of man, and drink his blood, ye shall not have life in you, etc. This is the third.  
This which followeth I note not as a lie, 〈◊〉 as a sensible and vain folly▪ for the 〈◊〉 themselves striving every day more and more th'one against th' other, and (as Ams●orphius a Lutheran witnesseth) their contradictions being unable by any possibility to be made agree together. How full of vain hope are you, which have so little doubt of their concord, that ye trust they will be agreed shortly?  
They have thrown us into prison, 
Apolog.  into water, into fire, and have imbrued themselves in our blood, not because we were either Adulterers, or Robbers, or Murderers, but only for that we confessed the Ghospel of Ihesu Christ, and put our confidence in the living God.  
To speak of the holiness and honesty of your behaviour, 
Conf. 152  I trust to have a better time, in the mean season, I ask you quietly, was W. Flower put to death only for his confidence put in the living God, 
Act. and Monuments. pa. 1129.  and not for striking and wounding a Priest, as he was ministering the Sacrament unto the people?  
Our purpose here is not to take in hand at this present to bring to light and open to the world, 
Apolog.  those things which were meet rather to be syd and buried with the workers of them. It be seemeth neither our Religion, nor our modesty, nor our shamefastness.  
Ye lie like hypocrites as ye are: 
Conf. 154  do ye not tarry longer in speaking the worst ye can of the Catholics, than in any other common place of your modest and shamefast book? Do ye not put in writing most shameful things, either not done at all, or done so long a go, that now they were hid and buried? Do ye not bring to Englishmen'S ears the unknown pranks of foreigners? Do ye not oft repeat Diasios and Cassios, as though it stood with modesty, to iterat, and exaggerate such tales? But such is your Religion▪ your modesty, and your shamefastness, that it beseemeth you well enough.  
Let the vicar of Christ and the Head of the Church remember, 
Apolog.  that they be of his canonists which have taught the people that fornication between single folk is no sin.  
It willbe hard for him to remember it, 
Confut.  because he never heard it or read it. And as hard it will be to hear or read that, which was never spoken or written of a canonist, prove ye now, that ever any Canonist hath taught as you report.  
Iohannesde Magistris, to whom you refer us in your margin, can not be found to have any such words. Perchance ye would say, Martinus de Magistris, which vas no canonist, but after the fashion of Schoolmen, ask the question whether simple fornication be a deadly sin, maketh objections first against the truth, and afterward refelling them, concludeth most expressly thus: Simple fornication excludeth from the kingdom of God: Ergo it is a mortal sin.  
Now if any johannes de Magistris, unknown yet to the world, can be brought forth of you to save your honesty in so impudent a lie, yet except ye can prove, that he was one of thee, Popes own canonists, ye can not but be guilty of one ●ie at the least in this place, which yet I dare say shall be forgiven you, if ye can but prove, that ever any Canonist hath so concluded.  
Go to now, and prove yourselves true men: and burden the Pope's Canonists with allowing of that which is expressly condemned by them. 
Apolog.   
Let him remember they be of his own which have decreed, that a Priest ought not to be put out of his cure for fornication. 
Confut.   
You must bring him the place, or it is not possible he should find it. for your marginal note willeth him to seek can. 3. 9 7. where no such thing is, and the paragraph, Quia, which speaketh of such only as are not to be promoted to holy orders, because of their bigamy. But the truth is, that by all Canon's old and new, 
Can. Si quis Ep.  the fault is punished. For by the old, were he Bishop, Priest, 
Dit. 81.  or Deacon, he was deposed and put to penance: by the later the party offending had tene years penance enjoined him.  
Let him remember also, 
Apolog.  how Cardinal Campegius, Albertus Pighius, & others many more of his own, have taught, that the Priest which keepeth a concubine doth live more holily & chastened, than he which hath a wife in matrimony.  
If ye were Cardinals to his holiness, 
Confut.  no doubt ye would do him great service, which being so far out of office, and far from Italy, take such care to bring things to his remembrance. But do not ye not forget yourselves in the mean time by affirming so boldly, so many ●yes? Campegius and Pighius do not say that, which you report of them.  
For of two evils, there is no one the better, both being evil, but one is less evil than the other. A concubine with a priest is nought, and an open harlot (no matter though ye call her his wife) is worse. They say not, that to keep a concubine is more holily and chastely done (as though any holiness were in it at all) neither that to have a wife in matrimony is evil (as though marriage were not honourable) but of these two foul faults, a Priest to keep a secret harlot, which goeth under the name and pretence of a necessary servant, or the same to profess that she is his yoke fellow, and to take the parish to witness, that she is his, at bed and at board: the first is evil, the second is worse: the first hath not put all shame aside, the second is impudent: the first may come of infirmity, the second will have it allowed by Authority.  
I trust he hath not yet forgotten, 
apollo.  that there be many thousands of harlots in Rome, & that himself doth gather yearly of the same harlots upon a thirty thousand durkattes by the way of annual pension: Neither can be forget, how himself doth maintain brothel houses, and by a most filthy lucre doth fylthylie and lewdly serve his own lust.  
Speak ye by report of others, 
Confut.  or by experience? If by report, were they that reported it, somewhat skilful in the matter or no? If they were not, but spoke also by report, standeth this with your purpose? and doth this beseem your Religion, your modesty, your shame fastness, which ye acknowledge in yourselves, so absolutely to object so great a matter, to so great a Bishop, upon an hear say only.  
But if they spoke of knowledge, how came they by it? Sat they in commission in Rome itself, and called the harlots before them by authority? But how were that either tolerable or reasonable; in a strange City to play the Magistrate, or to labour in the numbering of harlots?  
Or went they from house to house with a privy search, making a worthy occupation for gospellers to be curious in? Or through acquaintance with whores and bawds, was the whole account without further labour brought unto them? They are not to be accepted for honest witnesses, which are so well acquainted, or so much favoured of those naughtypackes. Perchance as they went up and down in the streets, they numbered certain scores of harlots. There was a simple eye then I trow, and a devout purpose in the marker of such occurrentes. Yet if it were so, how gather they, that many thousands of harlots are in Rome, because they observed many here and there to go in the City?  
What so ever shallbe answered, it will be replied, that they themselves are not far from harlots, which being no Commissioners for the purpose, so diligently observe such proceed, and that they which covet after such knowledge, do feed in their minds upon no better than carrion. And as it may be seen by their apparel, distinct from honest women, that Courtesans are in that populous City, so to beable to say it constantly, that many thousands of them are therein placed, it must proceed of experience, And it should not be reported in the hearing of Christians, except it were evidently declared. Yea neither them also, if we rightly understood our Saviour saying: 
joan. 8.  Lethim which is without sin among you cast a stone first at her. Wherefore this of many thousand harlots in Rome shall stand for only, and he which dare come forth and prove it in deed, shall stand to defence of his honesti.  
Now concerning the yearly pension which the Pope (you say) gathereth of them: how great is it? Marry upon a thirty thousand ducats. And how many harlots are there? Many thousands you say. But I ask how many? Make a guess as you do upon the annual pension gathered of them. Are there think you, thirty thousand harlots or thereabout? Nay are there three or four thousands of So many as you would have seem to be there? Surely within this number you can not welcome, because ye affirm that many thousands are there.  
Go to then, if there can not by your account be less than three thousand (for of two thousand only no man ever sayeth there are many thousands) every one paying ten ducketes by the year, the whole pension may easily be made up. And think you, that any man disposed to make a vantage, would gather no more of such persons, as so lightly come by their money? If but three thousand tippling houses were in any City, a very favourable Prince would not make so little of them (for excises &c.) as thirty thousand ducats by the year. But if he were a covetous and greedy Prince, having such a foul company in his City of whom he might take large exactions even for justice sake, would he be contented with an yearly pension of so little value? So few thousand ducats agree not with so many thousand harlots: and therefore ye shall do well to make arevew, and mend the lie where it is.  
You proceed further as it were to a greater matter: which if it be so, ye make a third lie, although in deed I suppose, that it is but the second lie in this place, set more abroad and dilated. For he maintaineth (you say) brothel houses, etc. How prove ye that? I think ye will tell us here again of the thirty thousand ducats, specially because ye speak also of a most filthy lucre, to which ducats we have answered before. And now we say further, that he taketh no annual vantage of harlots at all, but such as cometh from every one that dwelleth in the City, by ancient tribute and custom.  
But you say further, he maintaineth them (I would ye were so maintained) But by what means? Defendeth h● their cause, as he would the causes of honest persons? Doth he provoke them by immunities and privileges to tarry? Is he offended when any good man either mercifully doth convert them to a better kind of life, or justly punish them, for offending against the Law? Will ye see how they be maintained?  
They must not dwell in haunted or great places, but in bycorners and lanes. They must not ride abroad in coaches or chariotes, but walk a foot in the streets. They must not go in apparel all like other women, but wear a shoorte veil of one certain colour upon their heads, that they may be known, for harlots. And if they like strumpets do offend against any of these orders, they pay a great forfeit.  
Of which point if ye will gather, that the Pope serveth therein his own lust and lucre: what men are ye so to pervert that, for which praise is due unto him? Should he not punish them at all? Or in punishing them, should he not do it to the terror and example of others? Ye will answer perchance, that he should have none such in the City. Object then only that against him, and slander him no more with procuring advantage in maintaining of whores, nor defame him no more that he seeketh his own lucre by setting great Forefaites, or tributes upon hem.  
And then concerning the permitting of them in the City, 
If Canel● and sinks becommendable, them let M. lewel cry on (as he did in his ●ast sermon against him) that M. Harding will defend 〈◊〉 cause of harlots.  I answer you, that in temporal government it is not evil in respect of a worse which else would follow, to let harlots and bawds * lie with dishonour and shame in the sinks of great Cities like as Minstrels, Dancers, jugglers, Usurers, and other of unhonest and vile behaviour of life are suffered to remain even in London itself, and that when all the Superintendents of England shall be at their convocation.  
And this I speak touching civil policy: for concerning the spiritual government, there is in Rome daily and vehement preaching against them.  
In the beginning of Lent, and before Easter the Pope doth solemnly accurse them.  
Besides this, they shall make no testament before their death, nor afterwards be buried among Christians, except they did repent in time of their life. How say you then? Prove not these things in the judgement of an indifferent man, that the Pope will have no harlots at all in Rome, if either experience of civil policy should persuade it, or force of his spiritual sword and sentence, could win it? And yet dare you so lewdly to write, that he maintaineth brothel houses. etc.  
Of a monastery, made by the blessed Pope Pius Quartus charges and charity, in which the harlots converted from their wicked trade of evil life, through public preaching or private exhorting, should be received and kept in all honesty: of such a house and maintenance of them to such a life, we have heard, and they which have been at Rome, are certain. But of any procuring of their continuance in their filth and harlotry, you have heard perchance, but you should not have so stoutly objected it, before ye had been more sure of it.  
Bring forth your Author, that we may see whether ye be not light of credit, Or prove your own sayings true, if yourselves be the Authors, that ye be not convicted of impudency.  
If these things would have pleased us (that is, 
apollo.  harlots, brothel houses. etc.) we needed not to have departed from these men's fellowship, among whom such enormities be in their chief pride and price.  
I would this were true. 
Confut, 170.  For than no doubt, but if ye were in company of good Catholics, such as be as sorry as you for enormities, and complain thereof as heartily as you, though not so undiscreetly: ye would repent you of your lying and slandering, and hear Mass with a good will and devotion, and pray to Saints, and pray for the souls departed, and obey the B. of Rome's authority▪ Which Bishop, at this present, is a man so divine and excellent, (as appeareth most evidently, by his expelling of devils out of possessed bodies, by expelling the Courtesans out of the City, by correcting all disorders in the Court of Rome, by providing for those parts of Christendom, which either have no Bishops, and then he sendeth them some, as of late he did into the Indians: or had Bishops, and enjoyed them not, in which case he hath sent them home to their Countries) that if in deed, ye had the mind to return to the Catholic Church, ye might never better do it, than now, when the head thereof is so wondered for his holiness, fortitude of mind, uprightness, and Charity.  
But ye have a mad fancy to belie yourselves and say, that ye had no cause to departed from us, if enormities of life would have pleased you: whereas in deed as long as the mass and the Pope be regarded, you cannot abide our company, though the manners of the Catholics were never so well amended. Now if ye dare be bold with yourselves and say, that ye be so persuaded as ye be not: take heed yet, what ye report of others, and think not, it is enough to say it, and never to prove it, that such enormities are with us, in their chief pride and prince.  
Paul the fourth not many months sense, 
Apolog.  had at Rome in prison, certain Augustine friars, many Bishops, & a great numbered of other devout m●n, for religions sake, he racked them, and tormented them.  
The truth is, 
Con. 171  he caused a Public Edict to be made, charging all such as were gone out of their religion and habit, to return again to their house and Order. This commandment prevailed with many, which considering their dissolute lives, came willingly under obedience and order. Others which passed not for the Pope's commandment or their former vow, being apprehended were put in prison, that vexation might give them understanding, and that disobedience should not escape unpunished even in their bodies. As for racking and tormenting them, that is one: and that many Bishops were so handled, that is an other: or that they suffered for religions sake and not for their own disobedience, that is a third fowl lie.  
Although we be not the men we ought and profess to be, 
Apolog.  yet whosoever we be, compare us with these men, and even our own life and innocency will soon prove us true, and condemn their malicious surmises.  
Concerning your lives, 
Con. 127  the great ado which you make for wives, proveth what gift of continency is among you. And they being in deed no wives but concubines, either one sin defended and maintained, draweth not an other with it (which is impossible) either else one may justly collect and gather, that in the other matters besides incontinency, ye be not innocent. I report me also to your railing upon the Pope, whom ye know not: Your belying of honest men which yet live: Your slandering of whole orders and companies, either upon hearsay only, or for the peculiar faults of some few persons. etc.  
Call ye this innocency? Let the world judge, where more disordre of life is, among Catholics, or heretics.  
We have overthrown no kingdom, 
Apolog.  we have decayed no man's power or right, we have disordered no common wealth. 
Confut. 173.   
The hundred thousand bands of Germany, which by tumult and uproar armed themselves against the nobility, and died all in it, be witness against you.  
The Duke of Saxony and Lant grave of Hesse, he witnesses against you, because they stood in field against Charles the v. whom ye can not deny to have been their true Sovereign and Emperor.  
The sacramentary Zuitzers of Berna, who rob the Duke of savoy of his towns and Countries from the farther side of the Lake of Geneva unto the Alps, they shall be brought against you.  
Geneva itself, which is neither in the power of the Duke of savoy, nor under their lawful archbishop, but hath taken all jurisdictions from them, into her own hands, may prove somewhat against you.  
The Hugonotes of France, your brothers, and others in Scotland which have and do yet continue in their rebellious stomachs and enterprises, shall testify, that some man's right is decayed by you. But if you think all these witnesses to be far of, and that they can not be well examined, ask (I pray you) and I think ye shall find, that the Brothers of England have furthered the cause of the Hugonotes of France and Knokes men in Scotland.  
And to be short, go into your own bosoms, and consider what compassion ye have over the afflicted congregation of the low countries, where their conspiracies and enterprises, are so clearly betrayed and broken. Or consider what joy ye have had in it, when not only against lawful Authority, but also common honesty, and order, they spoilt Monasteries, expelled the Religious, threw down Churches, and played other such parts, as spirits of hell do sometimes in great tempests.  
The B. of Rome to feed his ambition & greediness of rule, 
Apolog.  hath pulled in pieces the Empire of Rome, and vexed and rent whole Christendom a sunder.  
Merciful God, 
Con. 17●  what mean ye? Are ye offended, that the empire was placed in the West, to the defence of Christendom? And the suppressing of the Lombard's power which them was grievous to Italy, doth that of fend you? Charles the great, so blessed and valiant a Prince, shall his acts not only be called now into question, but utterly be condemned through you?  
If you call this, a pulling of the state in pieces, that an Emperor was set up in the West, because the Emperor of the East was both unable and unready to help the West church, them is this present Emperor with all his predecessors guilty of unjust possession and accessary to the Pope's ambition, as you term it. For if at the beginning the title was not good, he can not with safe conscience abide in it. And if that were pulling the Empire in pieces, you perchance will set it together again, and help to put down the Emperor now living with all that state, that ye may make all full and perfit, as it was under one Emperor over the whole.  
Again he did not feed his ambition, being as great in authority before as after. Neither pulled he it in pieces, but where there was no whole and good piece left, there he placed a perfit state of government. And it lacked so much that all Christendom was rend a sondre by it, that except by that means provision had been made for defence of the Church, the lombards even at those days and the Turk sense that time, had spoiled and rend all Chrisntendome.  
He put Chilpericus the French king being no cuil prince, 
Apolog.  beside his realm, only because he fancied him not, & wrongfully placed Pipine in his room.  
Chilperike was so good a Prince, 
Confut.  that He was commonly called stupidus, a dolt. He was also wholly given to belly cheer, and love of women. And therefore the whole realm of France made earnest suit to the Pope, that they might be loosed from their oath made unto him: whereby it appeareth, that the Pope followed not an only fancy of his own, but the request and advise of a whole Country.  
Now as for placing of Pipine wrongfully, I know not how they could make it probable, except he were made king against the good wills of the nobility, and commonalty of France. For whereas every common wealth is greater than the Prince which governeth it, and may depose the same upon lawful cause, and whereas riot and doltishness are causes sufficient so to does (as making the prince unable to govern it well) it followeth consequently, that if the whole state of France deposed Chilperike and erected Pipine, there was not fault committedin so doing.  
He utterly destroyed the state of the most flourishing City and common wealth of Florence, 
Apolog.  his own native country.  
How great words, utterly destroyed, and, 
Confut.  flourishing City? It was never more quiet, than it is now under the Duke. For by natural reason under one certain head, peace is better maintained, then in number of families and factions, be they never so small. And by experience they do feel, that they have less stur and uprising, than they have known: whereas unto forty 〈◊〉 which they had before about the 〈◊〉 place, they have not one as now.  
All these were Popes, 
Apolog.  all Peter's suces●●, all most holy fathers: whose several swords we must take to be as good as 〈◊〉 gospels.  
Who told ye so? 
Con. 184  Where find ye it so? Who 〈◊〉 taught you to lie so? For not only the ●opes words, but also his private writings 〈◊〉 taken to be subject unto errors and ●gnorance, as other men's doings are: but ●ot his definitive sentence upon any ma●●er to be generally believed.  
The self same men which have led their 〈◊〉 at Rome, 
Apolog.  in the holy city, in the face of the most holy father, who also were able to see 〈◊〉 their secrets, & at no time departed from 〈◊〉 catholic faith: as for example, Laurentius ●alla, Marcilius Patavinus, Francis ●etrarke, Hierom Savanorola, Abbote 〈◊〉 ●oachim, Baptist of Mantua, & before all ●hese Bernard the abbot, have many a time & much complained of it, giving the world 〈◊〉 also sometime to understand, that the Bishop of Rome himself, by your leave, 〈◊〉 very antichrist.  
five lies I will note at the least 〈◊〉 this one sentence. 
Confut. 207.   
First, of all these whom ye name, no one 〈◊〉 did lead his life in Rome, but Laurence Valla.  
Secondly, they were not well able to see the Pope's secrets which lived 〈◊〉 in the City with him familiarly.  
Thirdly, concerning your lie, that 〈◊〉 no time they departed from the Catholic faith: Laurentius Valla was 〈◊〉 fangled, Marcilius was a plain heretic▪ Abbate joachim uttered heresy, which was condemned, but submitting himself to the Catholic Church, he escaped fo● his own person.  
fourthly, of the faults of Rome, 〈◊〉 Bernard hath complained, but never 〈◊〉 the Pope's tyranny, and barbarous pryde●  
Fifthely, it was the special grace 〈◊〉 Luther, and the blindness or folly of th● foresaid persons, to give you to understand that the Pope should be very An●tichrist. For the making of which lie, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 will never so much ask our leave, we have no such Authority to give it unto ●ou, and therefore I pray you quiet yourselves, and never trouble us more hereafter with such requests.  
We, 
Apolog.  saith Hosius, will bid away with 〈◊〉 same scriptures, etc. It behoveth not 〈◊〉 man to be expert in the law & scripture, 〈◊〉 to be taught of God. It is but lost about that a man bestoweth upon the scriptures. For the scripture is a creature & ● bare letter. This is Hosius saying.  
This is not Hosius saying. 
Conf. 21●  Nay, of set purpose he rehearseth it for an heresy: to declare how the new gospellers of this 〈◊〉, have proceeded still from nought to worse, and are now come some of them, to such a divine spritishnes, that they contemn the study of the Scriptures as a carnal thing and unprofitable, and will not have any man use the testimony of them.  
But God forbidden (saith Hosius) that we should ever so much as think these things, 
Hosius de expr. ver. Dei.  which belong not to a Christian man. For we hold with S. Hilarius who judged heresy to come from the understanding, not from the scripture Seeing therefore that Hosius hath so expressly declared himself, to 〈◊〉 from Zwenkefeldius heresy, which would not have the Scripture to be 〈◊〉 credit, what impudency is it, so bold●● lie to charged him with it, as though it were his opinion, to have the 〈◊〉 put away.  
Yet this, so great impudency, 〈◊〉 how it shall be maintained? For although it be perceived, of the Author's 〈◊〉 the Apology, that Hosius will soon 〈◊〉 against them, and say, that they do 〈◊〉 wrong: yet rather than they will 〈◊〉 seem to eat their word, and to 〈◊〉 unable to defend that, 
Note the stomach.  which 〈◊〉 had once said in the first edition 〈◊〉 the Apology, they increase their 〈◊〉 and shame in the second edition. 〈◊〉 whereas in conscience, they should have cried Hosius mercy, and 〈◊〉 confessed their mistaking of him (which had been a token of good natures, and such as especially should be in the professors of an holy Ghospel) yet in their second Edition and further deliberation upon the matter, they not only do not revoke their slander, but make Arguments to defend it.  
And first, to that which Hosius might truly say unto them, that they do him wrong, and that the words which they object against him, are not his own words, but the words of the Heretic Zwenkefeldius: they answer.  
But how then, 
Apolog. In the second edition.  if Zwenkefeldius make Exclamations on the other side and say, that the same very words are not his, but Hosius own words? 
Confut.   
If he will be so shameless, as to object that unto Hosius, as Hosius own, for which Hosius expressly reproveth him: Or if he will be so foolish as to profess that opinion, which he will put await from himself, when he is challenged of it, he is a meet witness for the Apology. But how is it likely and probable, that Zwenkefeldius might so do? It followeth.  
For tell me, 
Apolog.  where hath Zwenkfeldius ever written them.  
What if so much be not told you, 
Confut.  will it follow, that because you know not, where to find them in Zwengelfeldius, therefore they are not in him at all? Or because it is not told you where Zwenkfeldius hath written them, therefore Hosius doth allow them? For herein is the point, whether Hosius alloweth them for his own words, or no.  
Or if he have written them, 
Apolog.  & Hosius have judged the same to be wicked, why hath not Hosius spoken so much as one word to confute them?  
By like reason you might make S. Augustine a great heretic, because in 〈◊〉 book ad Quoduultdeum, he 〈◊〉 shortly the heresies that were in 〈◊〉 world, and doth not also confute them 〈◊〉 he telleth them. But the cause of Hosius fact is evident, for that his principal purpose in that place, was to show the heretics procedings, and not to tarry about the confuting of their sayings. And whereas he counteth Zwenkfeldius an uptarsnt heretic for those foresaid words, is it not manifest, that he himself hath no liking of those words? verily although Hosius in noting Zwenkfeldius for those words, hath not straightways answered his arguments: yet he sufficiently proveth himself to be of a contrary opinion, and thereby answereth your fond objection, by which your would seem to make Hosius a Zwenkefeldian, in that he judged Zwenkfeldius words to be wicked, and yet spoke not so much as one word to confute them. As though it were not to speak some word at the least against a position, to say no more but this of it, that it is an heresy. But see what followeth in the Apology.  
How so ever the matter goeth, 
Apolog.  although Hosius peradventure will not allow those words, yet he doth not disallow the meaning of the words.  
This, 
Confut.  how so ever the matter goeth, of which you speak, hath this sense in it, that there is no remedy, but you must, one way or other, make Hosius to be a Zuenckefeldian, lest you should seem to recant and revoke that, which most unjustly and blindly ye have laid unto his charge.  
And therefore, whereas it is most manifest, that Hosius alloweth not those heretical words, which he attributeth unto Zuenkefeldius, and whereas ye can never purge yourselves of the slander made upon him in that behalf: ye depart from the matter, neither proving sufficiently your obiecton, neither confessing honestly that you have mistaken him, but leaving it with a peradventure Hosius will not allow those words, ye proceed to prove, that how so ever the matter goeth, Hosius disalloweth alloweth not the meaning of those words.  
In which point, ye discharge not you● honesties, but show partly your fond invention, in burdening your adversary with the sense of those words, the speaking or writing of which, ye can not prove against him, his open fact and denial standing to the contrary: partly your wretched disposition, in maintaining a lie by impudency, as though never to confess your fault, were the next way to be delivered. I add further, that ye be less sure of Hosius meaning, than of his speaking or writing. For words and letters are sensible, but the meaning without some external sign ●ade, is not intelligible.  
If therefore you will leave to press Hosius with the foresaid words, 〈◊〉 peradventure he will disallow 〈◊〉 should ye not much more have 〈◊〉 yourselves, from laying the 〈◊〉 of them unto his charge?  
Except you be so foolish, as to think, that he will not put away from him the sense of those words, the very form of which ye guess he will disallow.  
But let us see further how substantially ye will prove Hosius to be of this mind that the Scriptures are to be rejected. It followeth.  
For well near in all controversies. 
Apolog.   
Your slander is to general: 
Confut.  come to some special point or other.  
And namely touching the use of the holy communion under both kinds: 
apollo.  although the words of Christ be plain and evident, yet doth Dosius disdainfully reject them, as no better than cold and dead Elements.  
What mean ye by, disdainfully reject them? 
Confut.  Doth he scrape them out of his book? Doth he call them, not worth a straw, as Luther calleth S. joannes epistle stramineam, a strawen epistle? Doth he say that they are crept into the text out of the margin, 
Beza jam Anno. in Luc. 22.  as Beza reporteth (like a blindebuzzarde) the words of S. Luke's Ghospel, which shall be shed for you, to have been infarced? What hath Hosius done to the text of the Scripture, that ye should so loudly object it, that he doth disdainfully reject them? Bring in your arguments, that they may be considered: And show us some evidence, that ye seem not to light and slanderous of your tongue.  
There is no doubt, but Hosius and you, will not agree upon the sense of many texts: but concerning the words themselves of the Ghospel, Hosius can not possibly reject them, being a Catholic. For in such cases he can do nothing of himself, but must follow the Catholic church. And the Catholic Church is so religious towards Scripture, that as she hath received it, so she maintaineth and keepeth it still.  
Note therefore this place (gentle Reader) and mark whether the Authors of the Apology, have either the ability to prove that, by which they have defamed a right Catholic and Reverend Bishop: Or the humility and honesty, to confess their fault, and to ask forgiveness for their objecting of that which they are not able to prove.  
The canonists of this day, 
Apolog.  for they● bellies sake use to say of the Pope, that for as much as he is Lord of all benefices, though he sell for money Bishoprics, Monasteries, Priesthood, Spiritual promotions, and parteth with nothing freely: yet, because he counteth all his own, he c●n not commit simony though he would never so fame.  
How prove ye, that the canonists, 
Confut. 259.  of this day, have such a conclusion as you speak of? The author of Summa angelica, or Theodoricus, whom ye name in the margin, for the proof of this matter, are dead many days ago, and serve not to prove, that the Canonists of this day now living, have this or that opinion. Therefore I will be so bold as to charge you with one lie in accusing the canonists of this day.  
another lie shall be, that you slander them, to speak (what soever they be of whom ye mean) for their bellies sake. For (God knoweth) all the lawyers which you ever have seen or had to do withal, far little the better for the Pope's table.  
The third lie, (and that most notable) is, that ye make them to conclude it absolutely and generally of the Pope's prerogative, which they mean but in a certain case, and one certain respect only. For, the distinction and determination of this question, by the very Summam Angelicam itself is, that concerning such punishments and pains, as are set upon Simony by the positive Law, the Pope is not subject unto them. But for the other things, which are simoniacal, and punishable by the Law of God: In ijs quae sunt Symoniaca de iure divino, the Pope is not exempted from the fault and p●●ne due to it.  
The Greeks have neither private Masses, nor mangled Sacraments, 
Apolog.  nor purgatories, nor pardons.  
An instance in any one of these, u sufficient to prove you a liar. And therefore to let pass Asia, Syria, Assyria, and Armenia, countries too far to go unto and see whether we say true or no: In Venice at this day, in the Greek Church, the priest receiveth alone at the altar, which is (by your interpretion) to say a private Mass: and of this you may be fully persuaded, if (because ye mistrust the catholics report, which have seen it) you will but ask of the reverent Father Shire, or some of your own Merchants which have travailed thither, or send some letter of yours by their friendship to any false Christian, and faithful brother there, to know whether you have not spoken more, than you are able to prove.  
We turn the scriptures into all tongues: 
Apolog.  they scant suffer them to be had abroad in any tongue.  
Have ye turned them yet into welsh and Irish? 
Confut.  but for lying upon yourself I leave you to yourself.  
Concerning the Catholics, if your saying be true, who then maintaineth the Hebrew Readers of the old testament in Rome, the expounding the same in latin in every Catholic University, the open selling of Bibles, Hebrew, Greek and Latin●, in all Printers shops, the continual reading of Scriptures in monasteries, not only in open Church and secret cell, but even in the Refectories, at dinner and supper? Who do all this but Papists? Your lie therefore is very notorious.  
Peter verily whom the Pope hath oftence in his mouth and more reverently useth to speak of, 
Apolog.  than he doth of Ihesu Christ, did boldly stand against the holy Council.  
If ye loved, 
Con. 274  either God or man so truly and justly as ye would be thought to do, it were impossible for you, so suspitiousely to interpret the honour given to the Servant, to be a diminishing of the honour and reverence due to his Master. For the charity of God, the greater as it is in us: so it maketh us to rejoice still more and more, the more that any is praised or remembered, whom he favoureth. And to murmur, grudge, cast down the head, or make a lip at it, when S. Peter, or any other of the glorious and blessed in Heaven, is daily and reverently spoken of: what is it else, but maliciously or blindly to think, that S. Peter hath already honour enough, or rather to much service done unto him, and that God himself is like to far the worse, if his Saints be continually magnified?  
On the other side, 
1. Cor. ●●.  concerning our neighbour, Charity being patiented gentle, not suspicious etc. how might a man full of spirit (except it be of the hot spirit of Hell) judge by a man's reverent speaking of S. Peter, that he would not speak, so reverentelie of Jesus' Christ?  
Besides this, ye which live in England, and make such reports of the Pope, whose abode is in Rome, being neither of privy chamber, nor household, no● of the same City or Country with him: how can ye (by any likelihood) be other then false liars in judging so particularly of his ma●ers, until ye bring the Authonr of this your saying: or light believers of tales, when ye have named the Authors?  
Yet truly we do not despise counsels, 
Apolog.  assemblies and conferences of Bishops and learned men, neither have we done that we have done, altogether without bishops, or without Council. The matter hath been treated in open parliament, with long consultation, and before a notable Synod and convocation.  
yes, 
Con. 275.  altogether without Bishops and without a Council. For in that notable parliament, the first of our Sovereign Lady that now is Queen (in which that was done for you that was done) ye could have no Bishops in the plural number to stand for you: because ye had not so much as one in the Singular number.  
Albeit afterward in deed one ye had, and he being deceived or overcomed did bear with the procedings more properly, then support them.  
This is one. Now, as for the treating of the matter in open parliament, it was so open, that your voices had no place in it. This is an other.  
Thirdly, concerning the long consultation that was used, the parliament began after Christmas, and without any great arguing to or fro, the maydenbill (as it was called) of the Prince's Supremacy was ready to have passed about the beginning of Lent. Then stood one up that spoke against it, with such liberty that he was examined upon it, and lost his own liberty 30. days together, and with such truth and gravity, that for so many days after, the matter also of the Supremacy was suppressed. Yet about Easter, for the word head, came in the word Governor. And so was the supremacy admitted, when the parliament so little thought of such a fetch, that an earnest favourer of the Gospel took indignation at it, and said, that if men were ashamed of the word itself head, they should also refuse the Supremacy itself which was imported by it. And call you this a long consultation? This is a third.  
Last of all touching the notable Synod and convocation, it put up to the parliament an express bill of information against your procedings. So far of it was from helping you. This is the fourth great lie, in this one little sentence of yours.  
From which four, if ye will defend yourselves, by referring your meaning, not to the first parliament of the first year of Queen Elizabeth (in which ye were Sirs out of office) but unto the other that followed (the Catholic Bishops now being safely kept in prison) then as ye debate the poised of your former 〈…〉 for all that ye do augment 〈…〉 your folly. For your matt●●● 〈…〉 to pass for you, in the first parliament, in which none of you were present, though the parliament following, had been open the consultation long, the convocation notable (albeit this might be proved to be an open, long and notable lie) yet note, I pray you, the folly and lie which in this sentence go together. For your matters being done to your hands, in the first parliament, where no place was made for you: it is a very lie to say: We have not done, that we have done, altogether without Bishops. And the first parliament serving your purpose so fully, that ye needed not an other, what wisdom was it to have a long consultation and notable Synod upon that; which was before concluded for you, and by you was not to be removed, for all your notable convocation?  
Continually for the space of five hundred years, 
Apolog.  the Emperor alone appointed the Ecclesiastical assemblies.  
Where begin you to reckon? 
Con. 311.  Three hundred years af●tr Christ, there was no Emperor in the world, openly professing himself a Christian: and yet Ecclesiastical assemblies were appointed and kept in Jerusalem by the Apostles, In Palestina when Victor was Pope, At Rome by Fabian etc. Then if ye will begin at Constantin the first, and take the five hundred years following, how make you it true? For the first Council of Nice itself, was called by Sylvester the Pope.  
Temporal men subscribe and give sentence, 
Apolog.  in general Counsels.  
Subscribing we grant: 
Con. 318.  giving of sentence we utterly deny, and you can never save it from a lie. Except by such a figure as shall make two diverse things in degree and perfection, to be all one with you, and that it is as lawful to give sentence in a matter, as to subscribe to it, after it is given.  
The Popes would needs make all the realm of England tributary to them, 
apollo.  and tracted thence yearly most unjust & wrongful taxtes. So dear cost us the frindeship of the City of Rome.  
Was the Realm so unable to resist him, that you may truly s●ie, the pope's would needs have it so? Through your over much study on the book of the Lord, ye may be pardoned, for not knowing the history of our Realm: which if you will take the leisure to consider, will teach you, that the taxes or Peterpence of which you speak (or else ye must pardon me, if I understand you not) were so freely given by King John to the Popes for evermore: that except his conscience had moved him unto it, there was no force of arms, nor will in the Pope, to make him of necessity to do it.  
And because you make it a fault as it were general of all Popes, that needs they will have taxes of you: remember Paulus the fourth his dealing with you, at the coming of Queen Marie to her reign: at which time having Princes on his side, and by his own strength some what able to he●pe forward, yet he neither required Peterpence (a small matter in respect of our Realm, or his charges upon Christendom) neither absolute restoring of religious houses to the former and lawful holder's of them, a great matter without all controversy, yet such as he might have brought to pass if Popes were the men, as you make them to be. Whereby it appeareth, that although ye might freely make lies upon the Ambition and covetise of Popes in old time: yet these Popes which of late have in deed been so much able, and yet through charity so little willing to take of you, do in all men's eyes and judgements, convince you of lying and slanderous tongues.  
Men following God his bidding, 
Apolog.  of their own free will resorted unto the doctrine of jesus Christ.  
As for example, 
Con. 345  in our own country: In King Harry the viii. days, who so would not have abandoned the Authority of the Bishop of Rome, should be hanged, drawn, and quartered. To have but the name of a Pope in a matins book was treason, permitting men to pray to S. Gregory which was a most holy Pope, and punishing them for having that name Pope standing by him in their calendar etc.  
In king Edward his time, the procedings increasing, it was punishable to hear Mass, etc. And at this present, it is so odious and dangerous, not to come unto your Ghospel, that yourselves provoking the Catholics to answer you▪ or allowing the bragging manliness of such a challenger: yet now when answers are provided for you, ye stop by all fear that ye can make, first that none be brought in, and afterwards that none be readen, upon pain of the commissioners displeasure. And, were not the judgement of our Princess greater, than to suffer such an absurdity, as that you should provoke and crack, when none is willing to fight, and when the enemy is coming forward, then call upon the temporal Arm to drive him back, that you might triumph in your manner without the victory, surely had not the goodness of our Princess misliked this cowardness, ye had by this time made it death, to have any book of the Papists making in Louane. And call you this, Men of their own will to resort to your doctrine?  
And for our parts truly we have sought hereby neither glory, 
Apolog.  nor wealth, norpleasure, nor ease: for there is plenty of all these things with our adversaries.  
It is hard to trust you, 
Con. 34●.  especially whee as this needless saying (that you have not sought for glory) proveth that you are content to be thought to have the contempt of glory: which is but a base and sorry argument of humility. As for your desire of wealth, although Luther, the man raised of God, had not for covetise preached against pardons, and if Peter Martyr (changing his opinion with which he came to Oxforth, and from his Lutheranisme turning himself to Zuinglianisme for love of so sweet a living did not make it probable (as he said unto julius his man after a great feast made to him in Oxford, O juli, bonum est nos hîc esse, O july, it is good being here) And although your miserable misery and banishment in which you were at Geneva, that in condition the popish Religion might be displaced, you would be content to conform yourselves to the Prince's Religion and orders, which (in the article of supremacy) Calvin your master could not abide, And although your selling of stone, lead, slat etc. your woodsales, your buying of Copyholds, your begging of money and wheat toward household, your breeding of swine with the over sight of the superintendant himself in that kind of cattle: although (I say) all these matters might make it not uncredible, that you had the desire of wealth in your poverty, which be so greedy thereof yet daily still in your plenty: yet because in these foresaid points the fault may be laid not upon religion, but on the persons professing it, I shall therefore bid you consider one principal end and conclusion of your Gospel, to see thereby whether ye seek not for ease and pleasure, or (if yourselves be better disposed) whether the course of your Religion doth not draw men to that affection.  
For running out of Cloisters, breaking the vows of poverty, of obedience, of chastity, no rising at midnight, short prayer, contempt of prescribed fastings, yoking of Priests and their women together etc. and such an Apprehension of Christ's merits by Faith, as maketh the hands to let go all meddling with good works etc. these being the effects of your religion, and part of the greatest points of your profession: let it now be judged, whether these men say true or no, in glorying that they seek not ease and pleasure, except you will say, ye be not inclined after the ways of your own religion.   

The 8. Chapter containing the Rhetorical, slily, and Frumping lies.  
We can not away in our Churches with the shows, 
Apolog.  and sales, and byeing, and selling of Masses.  
AS who should say, 
Con. 111.  we your Adversaries do abide it. No verily, we no more allow the selling of Masses, than the incest of the renegade Friars and Sisters: And yet there have been in the Catholic Church religious persons so foully disposed. As doth appear by the chief Apostles of the new Gospel, Luther, Oecolampadius, Peter Martyr, Bale, Barc●let, Barlowe, Scorie etc. Which departed out of the Church on their own head and peril, and lived not well in the Church whiles they were entertained in it. And so, although some faithless and wretched fellows, might be proved to have sold their Masses in the Church: that convinceth them to be nought, and not that the Church consenteth unto it.  
We verily, 
Apolog.  because we know the shedding of Christ his Blood upon the Cross to be the only Sacrifice, are well content with it alone, and look for none other. And forasmuch as it was to be offered but once, we command it not to be renewed again.  
You would (I perceive) have the Catholics counted exceeding covetous and insatiable, 
Conf. 123.  as though they should think the shedding of Christ his Blood upon the Cross to be unsufficient to salvation.  
But yet how think you? Notwithstanding ye are so well content, (as ye say) with Christ his Passion alone: do ye not think it necessary for you, to obey the Church, to obey your Prince, to abstain from lying, from adultery, from Simony & c? If besides the passion of Christ, you must also keep the Commandments, and do as many good works as ye may, then as you are content, so are we: And you are no wiser (by this reckoning) than other poor folks are.  
But, if Christ his Passion doth so content you, that ye seek not to suffer also with him, after your degree, in a certain proportion: then doth it plainly appear, that you are quickly satisfied. And in such sort to be well content, is for such as never think to ascend after Christ, and are very unlike unto him.  
Why hath he his Legates (as much to say as most subtle spies) lying in wait in all kings Courts, 
Apolog.  Councils and privy chambres? Why doth he, when he list, set Christian Princes one against an other, And, at his own pleasure, trouble the whole world with debate and discord?  
First, 
Con. 178  let it be proved, that the Pope doth it, and then afterwards ask the cause why? And consider also, whether it becometh the Church of England, that such an Apology should go forth in the name of it, as meddleth with the legates, whom other Princes of Christendom do entertain? And which objecteth to a person of much Authority, at the least, such an heyg●nous and shameful crime, as, that at his pleasure he should trouble the whole world. If the Pope were no more quiet and peaceable, than ye make him: had England all this while continued in schism and heresy, and not been made a pray to some that would have taken it?  
What is he that commandeth the Emperor to go by him at his horse bridle, 
Apolog.  & the French King to hold his stirope?  
Some Pope by lykelihode of your own making. 
Con. 185.  For the catholics know of none such at al. Yea, 
Paulu● iovius.  when Charles the fifth, of worthy memory, would have held Pope Clement's stirope, he was not suffered so to do, the Pope's modesty over coming the emperors devotion.  
Why do they hide, 
Apolog.  why do they keep under, the Gospel, which Christ would have preached aloud from the house top?  
We believe, 
Con. 222.  it is not hidden, that which is openly readen in the Church, Catholikelie expounded in Universities, ordinarily readen in religious houses, And commonly sold in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin, to all that will study it. This lie is dilated by the Authors of the Apology. Fo. 264. this also is among the flat lies.  
Why do they not prove their Religion, 
Apolog.  by the examples of the Primitive Church, and by the Fathers, and Counsels of old times?  
Our books do answer for us, 
Conf. 231.  that this is a lie.  
Why be they afraid to take a pattern, 
Apolog.  of the Apostles and old Fathers?  
We be never afraid, 
Con. 20●  but when we come to such heretics, as will not admit the old Fathers, nor their interpretations upon the Apostles: then in deed we allege not so thick their Testimonies, whose Authorities the lofty and proud minds, do easily contemn.  
Why did john, 
Apolog.  1. Clement, a Country man of ours, 2. but few years paste, 3. in the presence of certain honest men and of good credit, 4. tear and 5. cast into the fyere, certain leaves of Theodorete the most, 6. Ancient Father and a, 7. Greek Bishop, wherein, he plainly, 8. and evidently taught, that the nature of Bread in the Communion was not changed, abolished, or brought to nothing. And this did he of, 9 purpose, because he thought, 10. there was no other copy thereof to be found.  
Ye have done well so particularly to set forth this matter, 
Con. 231.  declaring by many circumstances, that Doctor Clement should Tear, and Cast into the fire, certain leaves, of such an Author, of such a matter, before men of good credit, and for such a purpose and 〈◊〉▪ as you specify. And now, as though the matter needed no further 〈…〉 ask, why john Clement a Countryman of yours did so?  
But I will tell you first, 〈◊〉 he did not so. For, as himself hath 〈◊〉 me and other ask this very question of him, that you appose us withal, he never had any part of that book in Greek or in Latin in written hand: And therefore could not well burn that which he never had. Now, if the honest men that you speak of, did not only see him cast certain leaves into the fire, but did read also, the contents of those leaves before they were cast into the fire, and understood upon what intent D. Clement did it etc. name them that they may be known for their honesty.  
When they did of late put in print, 
Apolog.  the ancient Father Origenes work up on the Ghospel of john, why left they quite out, the who●e sixth chapter, wherein it is likely, yea rather of very surety, that the 〈…〉, had written many things concerning the Sacrament of the holy Communion contrary to these men's minds?  
We could not leave that Chapter out, 
Con. 233.  which was not found in any Copy. But if you can bring any such chapter forth, ye shall make it likely and probable, that we are to blame for not putting it in. And, if you can not, you prove yourself to be very suspitiouse and slanderous, which reprove the Catholics, for not putting that in, which is not, as far as we or you do hitherto know, to be found in any place extant. Yet you have such a grace, as in speaking, so also in reading without book, that you further say it to be, not only likely, but rather of very surety, that such and such things should be in that place of Origen, which yet you never saw in all your life, that you might be able to report any thing of it.  
Which of all the Fathers have at an●e time called you by the name, 
Apolog.  of the highest Prelate, the universal Bishop, or the head of the Church?  
S. Jerome ad Damasum: 
Con. 247  The Council of Chalcedon▪ and Victor de persecutione Vandalica these have given the for said titles unto the Bishoop of Rome.  
Which of them ever said, that both the sword were committed to you? 
Apolog.   
S. Bernard saiteth it, lib. 4. de consideratione ad Eugenium. 
Con. 247   
Which of them ever said, that you have an Authority to call Counsels? 
Apolog.   
There follow a brown dozen more of such which of them? 
Con. 248  Which either need no answer, because the Catholic Church hath no such Articles, as you ask question of, Or because it is not bound to answer every gentleman controllers busy questions, although it be able, either by express Authority, or else by necessary consequence to declare good and sufficient cause and reason for every thing that it alloweth. But touching this present question, Socrates Hist. Tripart. lib. 4. ca 9 doth plainly testify against you.  
What one error have they amended? From what kind of Idolatry have they reclaimed the people? 
Apolog.   
Here is a suspicion raised of more than one error, 
Con. 291.  and of more than one kind of Idolatry to be in the church, and there is no probation annexed to prove that which is said. But herein your blindness and ignorance, doth utter itself, that ye know not what is truth, and right worshipping of God, which object errors and Idolatry to th'church of God, in which church the teacher of truth th'holy Ghost, 
joan. 14●  is always precedent, and shall be unto the world's end.  
Again, if you consider, what hath been done of late in general counsels, and what is done daily both by preaching, and writing against evil life and heresy, you can not justly find fault with the heads of the Church, as though they had no regard what the people did believe and follow.  
Then further I say, if you willo biect ignorance unto the catholics that, they know not what is true Religion: then doth it remain, that you tell your own minds, and answer their Confutations and Replies. Before which time to insult upon them and to crow out a loud, from what kind of Idolatry have they reclaimed the people? is, to triumph before the victory, and to go merely away with the sentence, whiles the matter is a hearing yet in the consistory.  
But if you object this crime to the Catholics, that they know well enough what Idolatry is, and see the kinds of it, and yet reclaim the people from no kind thereof: this truly is so heighnous and so vile a fault, that ye should have evidently proved it, before ye had so artificially concluded it.  
For a plain answer to which fowl suspicion, let any reasonable man be judge, whether it be likely and possible, that they which with great pains and danger of body, have provided, very idolaters in deed, to be converted unto our faith, would wittingly suffer an Idolatry to be at home before their eyes, and yet not take a little pain to open their mouth but once against it. The Franciscans, and they of the society of Ihesu, have and d●e take exceeding great pains about the barbarous people in the East and West India, and with hazard of their temporal life, they venture to bring the Infidels, to the knowledge of the life everlasting. Therefore surely it is besides all reason and likelihood, that of so many of the same order and profession, as live here in Europe among us, no one should be found so honest, so hardy, or so faithful, as to reclaim the people from their Idolatry, if any were in them at all.  
Why do they so uncourteously or with such spite, 
Apolog.  leave Princes out, & as though they were not either Christian men, or else could not judge, will not have them made acquainted with the cause of Christian Religion, nor understand the State of their own Churches?  
And why do you so openly and so licentiously r●yse a fowl suspicion, 
Con. 297  against the Clergy, where no cause is? The temporal princes, are solemnly warned before, of the general council, when soever it is to be kept. Their Legates have honourable and meet places for them, in the Cou●cel house, that they may not be ignorant of that which is done, in debating and examining the cause of religion: They be humbly and heartily thanked, for their helps and assistance and presence, made in the cause of the Church: They be sent home with peace: And say you, that princes are so left out, as though they were no Christian men, whose Ambassadors you may understand to be entertained and used so honourably?  
What is the Pope, 
Apolog.  I pray you, at this day, other than A Monarch, Or A Prince? Or what be the Cardinals, who must be none other now, but princes and Kings Sons?  
We never heard any wise man call 
Con. 299  the Pope A Monarch. But a Prince he is in deed, either as the word Prince may signify the Chief in all Priestelie function, either as it signifieth a man so endued with Temporalties, that he may worthily be a kings fellow.  
But say you, what other is he than a Monarch, or a Prince? As who should think, that he sat imperially under his cloth of Estate, and heard Ambassadors out of all quarters of the world, and gave kingdoms or took them away at his pleasure, and after such matters of weight dispatched, then that he went to hunting, hawking, plaieing, dancing, feasting, etc. as worldly Princes do. For such a thing do the common people imagine a Monarch or prince to be, one that ruleth all, and liveth in all pleasure.  
That you therefore may be corrected of your lie, and the simple Reader of his error, I say that the Pope is no Monarch at al. And I confess boldly, that he is a Prince, by reason of the Temporal, and great jurisdiction which he hath over S. Peter's patrimonies, but as Pius the fifth that now liveth, did answer agreeably to his holiness, and wisdom, Licet Princeps sum, antiquius tamen Pastoris quàm principis nomen agnosco: so (to say the like in English) I give you to understand, that although the Pope be a prince, yet he acknowledgeth and taketh, the office of a Pastor to be the more former and principal with him, than the Office of a Prince.  
By this office then of a pastor, he governeth, and f●deth his flock: he sendeth non residents, home to their cure: he appointeth out Preachers and bishops for the new found lands: he calleth Counsels, endeth Counsels when it shall please him he goeth in visitation (as this last year he did through althe parish churches of Rome) he excommunicateth such as will not repent (as he doth Courtesanes, expelling them bodily also out of the City) he succoureth such as will convert (for which purpose, his predecessor Pius the fourth of blessed memory, built a peculiar Cloister or house) he preacheth unto his flock, (as he did thrice the last year, first in S. Peter's Church, after that in our Lady Church, which is called Maria Mayor, thirdly in S. john Laterane) he ministereth the Sacraments, he confirmeth bishops, he bindeth, he looseth, he chargeth, he dispenseth, and by virtue of his Authority and priesthood, he expelleth the devils themselves out of the possessed bodies.  
Now if Princes and monarchs have the Office and power to do these spiritual functions, which I have short●lie and in part noted: then shall they also be holy Fathers, and take unto them the title of Supreamehead under God in earth. But if no man be so foolish as to hold it, that a Prince is a Priest: then are you answered, that the Pope at this day is some other thing than a Monarch or a prince. And so we pray you to be content, and not to sue unto us for answer of that, which is in plain sight, so evident against all truth.  
As for Cardinals, who (you say) must be none other now but Princes and kings sons do ye think, that of Princes and Kings Sons, one may look for no other thing, but wildness youthfulness and ignorance? Cardinal Pole, the Cardinal of Lorraine, Hercules Gonzaga, Gaspar Contarenus, Fregosius: Navagerus These I trow (if any be) are the cardinals whom you will number among the Sons of kings and princes. And what think you of them, or what shall ye find in them? Shall ye not find every one of them more notable and famous for their learning and virtue, than for their family and Parentage?  
If ye think then, that the Prince's Sons that are made Cardinals, are nothing else but unlearned Courteours, you shall show yourselves to be very simple Scholars, which can judge no better of the foresaid Cardinals. On the other side, if ye confess them to have been, and yet to be men very wise and learned: then may ye mistrust your wits and judgement, in objecting that, as an Infamy to the See of Rome, that the Noble men which th●re are Cardinals, are Princes Sons. Whereas the same be great Divines also and Doctors.  
But it grieveth you, that Cardinals must be none other now, but Princes and Kings Sons. There is no must in the matter: For the poorest of you all, if his poverty consisted in birth only, and not in wit and honesty, he might be not only a Cardidinall, but also A Pope. Like as of Adrianus the sixth, we not only read, that he was borne at ●ltreicht●, of very poor Father and Mother: but also we hear of the Ancient in Louane, that he lived here by begging very much at the beginning.  
But ye affect not to be Popes: Cardinals perchance ye could like to be, if that letted it not, that Cardinals must be none other now, but princes and kings Sons. As who should say, that no man knoweth, that Hosius, Seripando, Amulio, Sirlettus, and he de ara Coeli in Rome, are Cardinals by authority, and mean men's Sons by nativity.  
But to conclude, it appeareth that you are very base borne children, which so beggarly and ignorantly talk of matters out of your knowledge, and would seem to have no little intelligence of the state of the court of Rome, of which ye so speak as pedlars, that make discourses in Alehouses of Reformation in Religion, and war or peace between Princes, and not as grave men, which should be sure first of that which they say, especially when they speak in the name (as it were) of A whole Realm or Country.   

The 9 Chapter, Of an impudent and desperate manner of lying, which may well be called, facing of a lie.  
As for those things which by them have been laid against us, 
Apolog.  in part they be manifestly false and condemned so by their own judgements which spoke them.  
Show, 
Con. 10.  where, when, and by whom.  
If they perchance will not see that, 
Apolog.  which they see in deed, but rather will withstand the known truth.  
You do well to add (perchance) and yet you be to suspicious without very good argument, 
Conf. 19  to think that any Catholic will withstand the known truth.  
Lord God thou knowest, 
apollo.  that our Adversaries were the very foes to the Gospel, and enemies to Christ's cross: who so wittingly & willingly did obstivately despise God's commandments.  
In this you have done politicly, 
Con. 151.  to appeal to the knowledge of God, with Lord God thou knowest. For in the judgement of men, which know not what is within an others breast, except it be uttered by some external sign, it is impossible, that you should with any reason object it unto us: that wittingly and willingly and obstinately we despise Gods commandments, having no word or writing of ours, by which ye are able to show it. And if you have any, let that rather be brought forth, than a naked slander only exhibited, without any confirmation or likelihood.  
Our enemies do see, 
Apolog.  and can not deny, but we ever in all our words and writings have diligently put the people in mind of their duty, to obey their Princes and Magistrates, yea though they be wicked.  
If we can not deny it, 
Conf. 175.  how is it, that we do deny it? Yea rather how could we deny that, which is to be seen so openly? Are you only strangers in the affairs of the new Ghospel, and do ye not know, how it hath proceeded hitherto?  
Tell me, I pray you, whose counsel the Duke of Saxony and the Landgrave of Hesse did follow, when they stood in Arms against their lawful Emperor Charles the fifth?  
Of what Gospel was Luther, when he wrote, that the Emperor and Catholic Princes were proditores scelesti, vanique nebulones, traitors, wicked men and vain knaves?  
How came the Caluinists by Geneva, a den now of the Gospelers, and unto what Prince should it be subject, if right and conscience could prevail among them?  
By whom was Poltroon chosen unto that ministry, to kill the Duke of Guise, the chief Captain of the French King? Was not Beza the preacher, one of them that promoted him to that office?  
And to be short, were your ears only not, those things which they boast they have etc. and though they have a desire rather to dissemble: yet they them selves are not ignorant thereof, yea & sometime also they let not to confess it openly.  
See, 
Con. 252.  how devoutly these fellows can make lies. They talk with God about the matter, and they comfort themselves with this (I trow) that he yet is their witness, that we have not Antiquity, Universality and Consent, which we say we have. And it followeth, that we ourselves are not ignorant hereof, but the proof hereof (as I suppose) is to be referred to the knowledge of the good Lord only. For concerning the knowledge of men, whereas it is manifest by all our doings and writings, that we have those three things for us, Antiquity, Universality, Consent, and that against all our adversaries we prove, that these three be so with us that they are not with them: it is unreasonably and impudently set forth in print, where he that will may judge of it, that we should be of any other mind, than can be proved by evidence of some external signs.  
We are come to that Church, 
Apolog.  wherein they themselves can not deny (if they will say truly, and as they think in their own conscience) but all things be governed purely and reverently, and as much as we possibly could, very near to the order used in the old tyme.  
Here again our own conscience is brought forth against us, 
Conf. 269  as though they did see by their spirit, what we think in wardly: though we outwardly show all signs to the contrary. Many Catholics live out of their Country, other many lie in prison within their Country, some writ whole books against the proceedings, And all (I think) do speak against them, when they may do it without danger of displeasure. What should we do more, to declare that the new Gospel is damnable? Yet all this notwithstanding we think in our conscience (say the Authors of the Apology) that all things be governed purely and reverently among them etc. Have they any honesty, which set such faces upon matters?  
Let us see in all that while (of the first six months in which the Council sat at Trent) of so many, 
Apolog.  so manifest, so often confessed of them, and so evident errors, what one errorhave they amended?  
But what are they first, 
Con. 291.  that we may know them?  
These men use of course, 
Apolog.  to deny all things, be they never so clear: yea, the very same, which they presently see and behold with their own eyes.  
This lie is of the same suit with his foresaid fellows, 
Conf. 317.  because it layeth such things to our charge, as our doings prove to be most false and incredible. For, all the Scriptures we have received, and except we had commended them, no protestant could ever have trusted them. The old Counsels and Fathers we more esteem than Protestants do, we refuse no lawful testimony of any age. That which we see with our eyes we do never deny, though we understand such things as come under our senses, otherwise than the heretics do.  
To whom therefore may I compare these Adversaries, which will make us believe, that we see well enough that, which we do deny, and sometimes deny that, which we do see. I think they are disposed only to make sport, and so to play in matters of religion, like as idle spenders of their wit and time do, in the devising of mad merry games. For when half a dozen such are agreed together, one of them (for example) layeth hands upon a quiet man that passeth by: And while the innocent looketh back upon him, in cometh an other that helpeth to hold him, so fast, as though it should be for the king's advantage, to have such a one made sure. With that, he that without cause is so apprehended, wondereth at the matter and asketh what they mean and stretcheth his power to break away from them. But he beginneth no sooner to resist, but straightways they cry, help Sirs, help for the lords sake, this fellow is mad: see how his colour changeth, see how he panteth etc. And with that, the rest of the brotherhood sore moved with bitter compassion, make in to him, and for lack of other spirits, there they possess him, and hold him, and cry unto him, and keep such a stir about him, as is able to bring many a man half out of his wits, and to persuade with other that stand by and consider the thing, that undoubtedly the fellow that suffereth the violence is mad, and not that they, which go so sadly and constantly to the holding of him, should be any thing mad.  
After which sort if the Authors of the Apology have concluded to cry out upon us, that we can not deny, that, we know in our own conscience, that, we know for a truth, such and such things as we lay against them, to be false, and if they will needs enforce it upon us, that we can not deny, but all things are governed purely and reverently among them, what remedy but patience, and to suffer them to carry us into Bedlam with so many holy and learned men our forefathers, as already they have condemned, if they will not be answered with our open confession in word and deed? But if this be unreasonably done of them, to burden us with such a Conscience as can not be gathered of any our external act: judge thou Indifferent Reader, whether this be not properly facing of a lie.   

The 10. Chapter, containing the problematical or hypothetical lies, with, how then, what ifs, and put case. Not so impudent and open faced as other, but not unworthy to be noted, and no less shameful than the worst of all.  
But, I put case, 
Apolog.  an Idol be set up in the Church of God. And the same desolation, which Christ prophesied to come, stand openly in the holy place.  
It should not long continue, 
Con. 192.  I believe, to grant your case. For when Antichrist himself shall come, he shall be quickly destroyed, and never have any successor openly to sit in his Chair after him.  
What if some thief or Pirate invade and possess noah's Ark? 
Apolog.   
I think the Ark would sink. 
Conf. 192  And whereas God himself keepeth the Ark his Church, and provideth it to be a place of safety in which the just seed shall be preserved: to let a Pirate and Thief to possess the Ark, were as much to grant, as to let there be no honesty, no Faith, no lawful Authority in the Church: Yea it is as much to say, as, I put the case there were no God.  
How then if I call forth those for witnesses, 
apollo.  whom themselves have used to honour? What if I say, that Adriane the Bishop of Rome did frankly confess, that all those myscheefes burst out first fr●● the high throne of the Pope?  
Marry ye lie, 
Con. ●06  if ye say so.  
But how then if Zwenkeseldius make exclamation on the other side, 
Apolog.  and 〈◊〉, that the same very words be not 〈◊〉, but Hosius own words.  
If he will be so wise as to recall his own words, 
Con. 217  the Church is merciful to all that repent. If he will be so desperate, as to deny that which is in sight: that shall help him nothing in their judgement, which know Hosius to be a Catholic.  
But how if the things which these men are so desirous to have seem new, 
Apolog.  be found of greatest Antiquity? contrariwise, how if all things well nigh, which they so greatly set out with the name of Antiquity, having been well & thoroughly examined, be at length found to be but new and devised of very late?  
Verily they will be strange cases, 
Con. 230.  when any such fall.  
But I put case these Abbates and Bishops have no knowledge? 
Apolog.  What if they understand nothing what religion is, nor how we ought to think of God? I put case the pronouncing and ministering of the law be decayed in Priests, and good counsel fail in the Elders, as the Prophet Micheas saith, the night to be unto them in stead of a vision, and the darkness in stead of prophensiing? Or, as Esaias saith, what if all the watchmen of the City are become blind?  
What if the salt have lost his proper strength and saverines? And, as Christ sayeth, be good for no use, scant worth the casting on the dunghill?  
The less knowledge you would make the bishops and abbots to have, 
Con. 280.  the more miracle it will be, that without knowledge they have such learning, as their books, and preachings, and doings do testify. Take for an example the Catholic Bishops of England. Is there among them all any one against whom you may come with your texts of Micheas, Esaias, or Christ our Saviour? Yet, you put the case they have no knowledge: I answer, that your case is a very hard one. But yet to remedy somewhat this matter, if our Bishops should be so unlearned and ignorant, I think it were better for the common wealth to set them to School, than to put them in prison. Or if they be nothing meet for learning, to set them rather at liberty, being such as can hurt the procedings nothing for lack of good life and knowledge, than to keep them in, so precisely and politicly, as though every word that they should speak, were able to confounded an heretic.  
How then if the Pope have seen none of these things, 
Apolog.  and have never read either the Scriptures, or the old Fathers, or yet his own Counsels?  
I answer▪ but first, 
Con. 284  I will also put a case. What if there were no shame in a man? What if there were no regard of the sight of God? What if in all things he should seek for this only, how to fill the people's ears, and to make them gather of an exceeding great word somewhat at the least? W●●ld there be any discretion or stay in such a one of putting cases, of denying most manifest truths, of slandering worthy persons, and going against sense and reason? So is it with the Authors of the Apology. For, how then (say they) if the Pope have never readen, either the scriptures, or the old fathers, or yet his own Counsels? How then? Are ye not ashamed to put such a case, as neither ever yet happened, nor ever is like to come to pass by any reason? Show the occasion of this your suspicion and fear? Declare yourself to be of greater experience and consideration than those are, which quake for fear where no cause is? Name any one Pope that hath not been so learned, that you might welthink him to have readen the Scriptures? Ye can name none at al. You put only a case with, how then if he hath never readen the Scriptures? And I answer, that if it be so, it is a great miracle. And that except you bring forth some certificate of it, it is not to be believed. But neither you meant it (I suppose) to affirm it: only ye thought it enough, to speak much, as though you could bring forth somewhat, And to leave it to your Reader to suspect somewhat, although you proved nothing.  
I confess unto you: I can not tell what to say to such What thence? and What yfs? But if you have any art in judging of them: I pray you, if the sky should fall, were not many larks like to be taken? And if such kinds of What yfs? as you have put, might be followed in other examples: were not many fools like to be made and preferred by it, and many Will Sommers would they not be found in England, which would quickly say: what if all the Council be unlearned? And what if poor knaves have as great a gift of wisdom, and knowledge, as the Noble and Learned of the world? Thus far concerning this matter.   

The 11. Chapter, confuting a blasphemous lie.  
BY many small practices, at length an habit is gotten, and he that refraineth not his tongue, and thought in the less, shall make it so fond and slippery, that it will offend in the greater: And the Apology of England whiles it took not good heed enough, to speak truly of men, it is come to that blind audacity, that it belieth God himself. For this cause therefore, that the Authors thereof may the better consider of their rashness, and the Indifferent Reader may the more plainly see, that he must not trust every Spirit: I place this lie by itself as a singular one, without fellows and without comparison, and I call it as it deserveth, a Blasphemous lie For thus they say in defence of their discession from the Catholic Church.  
Though we have departed from that Church which these men call Catholic, 
Apolog.  & by that means get us envy amongst them, that want skill to judge: yet this is enough for us, & it ought to be enough for every wise and good man, and one that maketh account of everlasting life, that we have gone from that Church, which had power to err, which Christ, who can not err, told so long before, it should err.  
Where find ye this in any Ghospel? 
Con. 322  Or why tell ye not your Reader of it, that he also might perceive it? Or why direct ye him not to the place, at the least, where he might seek it? Can it be any other than wicked impudency, to make Christ say that which he never said? If Christ hath fore●old it in deed, that our Church should err, show us that, and there is nothing to be replied. Fathers, Counsels, Stories, Apologies, Replies, Rejoinders, all other labours may be spared: only that place were to be showed, where Christ hath so plainly confounded us. For this you may be sure, if ye can prove that our Church may err, you shall persuade all the sort of us, to forsake it, and get us to an other of which we may be sure it can not err.  
But forasmuch as ye can bring forth no such word of Christ: why make ye such a wretched crack, as though ye were departed from a church that may err to a better congregation, or as though Christ should bear witness unto the goodness of your doings by his foretelling, that our Church should err?  
Here ye are to be pressed, and here should ye be enforced to answer. For by this place it will quickly be seen, who hath won, or who hath lost. For if it were S. Ambrose, or S. Augustin that did affirm any thing, the Catholic would so far accept it, as he should see other Fathers to agree to it: and the heretic would so little make of it, that if all the father's besides did say with them, he would not be bound to follow their authority, because they all were men. But if Christ once say the word, both parts will submit themselves unto it, because it is impossible that he should speak any untruth.  
His authority therefore being, for so good cause, so great with us: either ye can prove that Christ hath foretold as ye report of him, or ye can not prove it. If ye can not, what an impudency is it against Christ himself, so to bely him, and what an injury ●s it to the Reader, so to abuse him by the name of Christ? But if ye can show it, where Christ hath foretold, that our Church should err: do so then, and speak not so mighty words against us, without any proving of them at all.  
But, how is it possible, that ye should prove them. 
Christ hath a Church.  For this first ye will not deny, that Christ hath a Church: otherwise his Incarnation and Passion hath been in vain, if he have not her, for whom he took flesh, 
The Church 〈◊〉 visible.  and shed his blood. This church then of Christ, is it visible, or no? Visible it must needs be, because it consists of men, ●nd men are creatures consisting not of pure and simple souls, but of souls and bodies together. And Christ saith of it, 
Math 5.  The City can not be hid that is set upon an hill.  
Being then visible, 
The Church hath order in it Sap. 11.  shall ye see good order in it, or no? Undoubtedly he that hath made all things by number, weight, and measure, must not let that to be without order, which he esteemeth most of all other things. For 〈◊〉 is the body of Christ, 
Eph. 4.  compacted and knit together through every joint, wherewith one ministereth to an other, having in it distinction of offices, and duties, to rule, to obey, to preach, to hear, to minister, to receive.  
This Order then, 
The order in the Church must continue. Dan. 7.  shall it for any time be lacking in Christ's Church, or shall it continue to the worlds end? It must needs continue, because the kingdom of Christ is everlasting, and no power is able to destroy the order which he taketh. The Apostle also most expressly telling us, that Christ hath given Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, pastors and Teachers, 
●ph. 4.  to finish and perfit the holy, to work in the ministry, to build up the body of Christ. Which body whereas it can not be perfected, until all they be borne that shallbe saved souls: it followeth, that this Order which I speak of, must continue so long until all meet together in unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, which will not be, till all be borne that shall so meet together, and that is at domes day, and not before.  
These grounds then so standing, I say unto you: for as much as the Church of Christ consisteth of a visible company of men, which is kept in order and unity, by reason that every one knoweth his place and keepeth himself within his bounds lest he lose his place: and for as much as this company and order must continue to the worlds end without dissolution or destruction: I say therefore unto you, that either our Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ, or else that Christ hath no Church at al. For beside our Church there is none that hath bensene to continued in any form of religion ever sensth ' Apostles time hitherto. As in example, before Luther broke out from his cloister and Rule, there was not in all the world anyone company, of Lutherans, Zwinglians Caluinists, or any other sect, that braggeth at this day of the light and knowledge of the gospel. Well there might be in corners some faithless men and women, that in heart were heretical (like as at this present if hearts were seen, many should be found even in England itself, to doubt of th'immortality of the soul, and th' Incarnation of Christ, etc.) but there was no open congregation of them, nor approved form of ministration among them, nor any face or show of a Church. For yourselves do say, that Martin Luther, and Hulderik Zuinglius were the first that came to the knowledge and preaching of the Gospel, so that if they were first. it followeth that before they came, there was no congregation of protestants in all the world, or if it were, it was not visible, or if it were visible, it had no true preachers, or if it had true preachers, Luther, and Zuinglus need not to be praised of you, for most excellent men even sent of God to give light to the world, because there were in the congregations of the sincere in the Lord, as illumined preachers of the word, as they. But where as the truth is, as you say, that Luther, and Zuinglius were the first that came to the knowledge and preaching of the Gospel (which is none in deed) and where as it remaineth to this day, not only in the books that are written, but in the memories of men that knew those days, that before Luther and Zuinglius made a tumult in Religion, there was not in all Christendom any other profession of faith, than was seen in our Church which we know to be Catholic: it followeth that your church can not possibly be the Church of Christ, the continuance of which your church can so little be perceived, that yourselves know, it begun to come forth in Friar Luther and Sir Zuinglius time.  
In which Church there was so little order, that ye can name neither superintendant, nor minister, nor preacher, nor brother of it that lived before the most excellent men Luther and Zuinglius: and which Church was so invisible, that ye never saw so much as any form of communion table pulpit, vestiment, or other thing used in it.  
Yet, we see this by experience, that when a company of heretics doth meet together, they will not be long without their preacher (every one is so ready to be preacher) and they can not be without some place, and they will make hard shift but they will have a good place: which is the cause, that so many requests have been made to Governors of certain Countries, and so many Religious houses and Churches have been hewed and squared for the receiving of the new gospel.  
Therefore if there was any congregation extant of this your Church, before Friar Luther lay with Nun Katerine and begat many foul and filled hic opinions of his own brain: and if that Church was the true Apostolic Church, and had so continued from the beginning: them had they places to resort unto, and they used such order, as they had received of their Forefathers, and you are able to name the place and tell us their Order.  
But we can he are of no such thing: ergo there was no Church of yours at all as then. Add then now unto this, that Luther's Church began with Luther, and so forth every Church sens Luther hath begun with the Diviser of it: And consider, that the true Church of Christ can have no such discontinuance or interruption, as that it should be said after many hundred years coming in between, in which one form of Religion was used: now is Luther or Zuinglius sent of God to give light unto the world: Gather, I say these things together, and ye shall perceive, that either Christ had no church hundred of years together, and that yet he hath none: or else that our Catholic Church is the one and only church of Christ. For alother Churches have either discontinued, either they have not been sensibly perceived, either they have been within memory erected, and so they lack Succession, visibleness, Antiquity.  
Of which three points, the Church that Luther and Zuinglius went unto, when they departed from the Catholics, had not one. But afterwards when they became themselves builders of A new Church, and that upon theyrown heads and Authority (for they acknowledged no creature then living for their superior in that matter) them in deed, it was not long but they got one of the foresaid three points. For they kept such a sore stir against all Christendom, that it was most evident, that they were a visible Congregation. But as for succession, and antiquity, they can never get it, because they can never prove it: for why, they never had it. Yet for Antiquity they will strive, and crack (as the Authors of the Apology do) that they do come as near as they possibly can, to the Church of the Apostles and of the old Fathers. But in the point of Succession, they can not tell, what to answer for themselves.  
For how, 
Let the heretics show their succession.  think they is it possible, that the Church of Christ should be without the lawful succession of the Apostles? Can his wisdom not for see it, that for as much as he minded continually to call in gheasts unto his feast: therefore it was necessary to provide servants, one after another, for that purpose? Would his chartie suffer it, that together with the Apostles deaths his compassion upon the poor souls of the world, should die, and that there should not be for every age unto the world's end, like officers (for their authority) as th' Apostles were, to dispense his graces and mercies? Can not his power perform it, that come who would, none should be able to stay the succession of his Lieutenants and Vicars?  
What then can the heretic now say, why he hath not a succession? A thing so necessary for the wisdom of God to provide, and so natural for his Charity, to give, and so proper, for his almightiness to maintain. Verily were it not, that he is almighty, it is impossible by natural power and reason, that the Bishop of Rome, whom heretics have always hated, at whom the greatest bishops in the East Church have envied, with whom Lords and Ladies of the world have been so much offended, whom the Barbarous have so oft assaulted, whom the Christians at home have so troubled: that he yet, should continue still, and always have a successor, it passeth all cumpasse of man's wisdom and provision, but that he that made him his Vicar in earth, is God almighty in ●eauen and earth.  
In some other things the heretics may so contend with the Catholics, that it will be hard for the indifferent man certainly to know whom he may follow. They will allege the same letter of the Scriptures as the Catholics do, they will use the same counsels, and fathers, They will challenge Antiquity, and say that they have descended from the Apostles (like as Parking Warbeck said he came of king Edward the fourth's blood, and what so easy as to say a word, if one will be desperate, and die rather in field than unsay it) but when they are brought to the matter of succession, in which they lack the very bare names, and much more the Acts and Monuments of such as they should show to have descended lineally and orderly from the Apostles, down unto them: then lo they are at a stay, and have not one wise word left to them, by which they might answer a question so principal and so reasonable.  
And yet they crack still that they are come to the Church of the Apostles, and of the old Catholic Bishops and Fathers, which Church (say they with exceeding blindness or impudency) we know hath hitherunto been sound and perfit, 
Con. 322.  and (as Tertullian termeth it) a pure Virgin spotted as yet with no Idolatry, nor with any foul or shameful fault. Note (Gentle Reader) that they speak of their knowledge, and except their knowledge be so divine and ineffable, that neither we can conceive it, nor they well utter it: desire them to be so good, as to make us also know it.  
For if they know the Apostolic Church, to be hitherunto sound, perfit, and pure: let them tell us where it was in the year of our Lord 1500. or, 1400. or, 1300. The Church of Rome is known, to have stood in those years: but all the sort of them hold it for A Principle, that many errors and faults were found then in it. Ergo if (by their saying) that Church had errors: what other Church was there, in those days which they know to have been sound, perfit, and pure? They can reckon none at all. For all these West parts of Christendom followed the Church of Rome: and they themselves confess, that the Greek Church doth err. Ergo, if the Church of Rome was not sound, and perfit, in those foresaid years, and if the Greek Church be notorious for the errors of it: how do these Fellows know, that the Apostolic Church hath hitherunto been sound and perfit?  
For what signifieth hitherunto, but even unto our time? And if the Apostolic Church hath been found and perfit even unto our time: there was such a Church undoubtedly in the years of our Lord 1500. 1400. and 1300. and that Church was not (as they hold) the Church of Rome: Ergo some other. But there was no other that they know to have been sound, perfit, and pure: Ergo they speak more than they know, and join themselves close to the Apostolic Church without any succession from the Apostles, and crack of a pure and perfit building without any foundation. Such is their miserable and blind bragging.  
How much more truly should ye conclude, that for as much as the Apostolic Church not only hath been hitherto sound and pure in doctrine, but must also continued sound and pure unto the world end: and for as much as no Church hath continued so, but only the church of Rome, therefore he that maketh account of everlasting life, can not possibly attain unto it, except he come to that Church, in which only the succession continueth, by which it is easy to ascend up even to the chief of the Apostles. For to S. Peter our Saviour saith: 
Math. 1●.  Thou art ●eter or a Rock, and upon this Rock I will build ●y church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 
●uc. 2●●  Again for thee ●eter I have prayed, that thy faith should not ●aile and thou being once turned confirm thy brethren. Again, to S. Peter he committeth his whole flock, saying, 
joan, 21.  feed my lambs feed my sheep. To S. Peter then as the singularly chosen the promises are made, and the privileges are by prayer obtained, and the charge by express word is committed.  
Now, for confirmation of these words, consider the effects that have followed, what heresy was ever maintained by the See of Rome? What question was there ever in the Church of Christ, and not referred to that See, and determined or pacified by it? What See hath continued in all tempests, but only the See of Rome? Who can show their succession from the Apostles, but only the bishops of Rome? What See is preferred in the writings of holy Fathers, but the See of Rome only? That is the Chair, unto which perfidiousness can have no access, 
〈…〉  That is the chair of unity, in which God hath put the doctrine of verity, 
〈…〉  That is the Chair, in which evil men are constrained to speak good things, that the faith of the Christians may be out of doubt with them, whiles it shall depend upon the infallible promises of God, and not upon the deceitful conjectures of men.  
This Church therefore being the Church which we call Catholic, in which the chief Master of the work laid S. Peter as the first stone next to himself, and in which there is a continual rue of Bishops one upon an other to the marvelous strengthening and beautifying of the whole building, against which Church it is impossible, that any wind or weather should so prevail, as it might overturn it (for it is builded upon a sure Rock) in which Church also there is the presence of the Holyghost sent of our Saviour to teach it all truth, and to tarry with it for ever: these things being most evident and consequent, what a blasphe●ouse lie is it, to say, that Christ hath told long before, that this Church should err? For what other thing is that to say, but to blaspheme either the wisdom of God, as though he had not erected a church that should not err: or his power, as though he could not bring it to pass: or his Charity, as though he would not: or his verity, as though he had not said, pointing to S. Peter, 
Math. 1●.  upon this Rock I will build my Church, and again, I have prayed for thee Peter, 
Luc. 22.  that thy Faith might not fail?  
But for this time this is enough, to note only the blasphemy: he that will see is more largely betrayed and convinced, let him read Doctor Saunders book lately set forth of the Rock of the Church.   

The 12. Of the Contradictions.  
Martin Luther & Hulderycke Zuinglius, 
Apolog. ●74. a  being most excellent men, even sent of God, to give light to the world, first came unto the knowledge of the Gospel.  
ERgo before their time, 
Confut.  there was a general darkness in the world.  
I wis it is not so hard a matter to find out God's Church: 
Apolog. .24.  for the Church of God is set upon an hill & glistering place.  
Ergo Luther and Zuinglius could not be the first that should see the Church, 
Confut.  except either Christ had no Church at all in the world when Luther was borne, or except a City set upon an hill (and for that purpose undoubtedly set, that it might be seen) should not yet be seen, before Luther came in with his lantern.  
We say we have no meed at all, 
Apolog. 125.  by our own works and deeds.  
Ergo it booteth not to labour, 
Confut.  except it be for nothing.  
God hath plucked us out from the power of darkness, 
Apolog. 225.  to serve the living God, to cut away all the remanents of sin, and to work out Salvation in fear and trembling.  
Ergo that is not without some meed and reward, 
Confut.  by which we work our salvation.  
Our Adversaries must be heaved from their mother, 
Apolog. 194.  that is, from this vain colour and shadow of the Church.  
Ergo ye should utterly d●spise the Church, 
Confut.  especially as it is now, if your adversaries mother be of no substance, but a vain colour only.  
To say truly, 
Apolog. 192.  we do not despise the Church of these men, how so ever it be ordered by them now adays.  
●rgo the catholics Church is no vain colour of a Church, 
Confut.  seeing that yourselves dare not despise it.  
〈◊〉 pope's had never hitherto leisure to 〈…〉 and earnestine of those matters. 
Apolog 19  〈◊〉, some other cares do let them and divers ways pull them.  
Item, 
●61.  they count these things to be but common and trifling studies, and nothing to appertain to the Pope's worthiness.  
Ergo being so careless, 
Confut.  they would never have perceived the case of their Religion, nor procured men to defend it.  
There have been wylily procured by the Bishop of Rome, 
Apolog.  certain persons of eloquence enough, and not unlearned neither, which should put their help to this cause now almost despaired of.  
Item. In deed they perceived, that their own cause did every where go to wrack.  
Ergo it appeareth, 
Confut.  that the Popes have had care of the cause of Religion.  
In this point (that is, lifting up the Sacrament) consisteth now all their Religion. 
Apolog 250.   
Ergo all is not in salt, 
Confut.  water etc.  
In these things (they mean salt, water, 
Apolog. 255.  Oil, spittle, Palm) they have set all their Religion.  
Ergo all is not in lifting up the Sacrament. 
Confut.   
What fault have they once acknowledged and confessed? 
Apolog. 209.   
Why burden ye then us with not amending manifest and oft confessed faults? 
Confut.   
Of so many, 
Apolog 291.  so manifest, so often confessed by them, and so evident errors, what one have they amended?  
Why ask you then, 
Confut.  what fault we have once confessed?  
For so much as we were most ascertened of God his will, 
Apolog. 327.  and counted it a wicked thing, to be careful and overcumbred about the judgements of mortal men.  
Therefore ye should have never called a Synod of mortal men. 
Confut.  Yet it followeth.  
Therefore we thought good to remedy our Churches by a provincial Synod. 
Apolog.   
But what needed a remedy by a Synod, 
Confut.  if mortal men's judgements are not to be cared for?  
Our cause against the will of Emperors from the beginning, 
Apolog. .15.  against the wills of so many Kings, in spite of the Popes, and almost maugre the head of all men hath taken increase etc.  
You never need then, 
Confu..  to ask leave that your Gospel may proceed, if it be so victorious and triumphant, that maugre the head of all men almost, it take increase.  
Let them give the Gospel free passage, 
Apolog 133.  let the truth of Ihesu Christ give his clear light, & stretch forth his bright beams into all parts. 
Confut.   
Ergo your procedings are not so currant and forcible, but that ye are feign to ask leave, that no man stop you of your passage.  
We might easily be brought to atonement touching all th●se matters, 
apollo. 348.  were it not that ambition, gluttony and excess did let it. Hence cometh their whining, their heart is on their halfpenny.  
How say ye then to the ignorance, 
Confut.  error, Superstition, and Idolatry, which ye lay to our charge, should there be no odds between you and us for them? And is this only the matter that causeth dissension, that you contemn glory, and P●●●sts desire it: you live temperately, and Papists are gloutenous: you keep a measure in all things, and Papists exceed? O where is your Charity, to bea●e with your even Christians infirmity? Or where is your wisdom, to forsake the unity of a Religion for the diversity of manners and conditions?  
For our parts, 
Apolog. 19●.  if we could have judged ignorance, error, superstition, Idolatry, men's inventions, and the same commonly disagreeing with the holy Scriptures, either pleased God, or to be sufficient for the obtaining of everlasting salvation etc. we grant there had been no cause at all, why we should have left these men's company.  
Say ye so indeed? Put the case than that in the Catholics ye might find the faults of imbition and gluttony? I know the place where ye say, that such causes did let your at one mē● with them Whether your heart them also be not upon your halfpenny? Peradventure it is. But without per adventure, either your mind is not upon that which ye speak, either ye care not how ye agree with yourselves when ye speak.   

The 13. and last Chapter, Of the false Interpretations of the Latin Apology of the English Church.  
apology. Confutation. All Bishops be of like Pre-eminence. 53. correct, and read. Be of like merit. Non de●init esse substantia panis, vel natura vini, the substance of the bread or nature of the wine ceaseth not so to be. 98. It is not so in the Latin, And therefore leave out this So. Mystica symbola manent in priori sua substantia, figura & specie. The mystical Signs remain in their former substance, form and kind. 100 In their former substance, figure and shape. Pauperes de Lugier duno. The Friars of Lions. 206. The poor brethren rather, or Heretics of Lions. Aduocabantur ad Ecclesiasticarum causarum cognitionem. They were called and made acquainted with ecclesiastical matters. 279. They were called to the hearing and decreeing of Ecclesiastical matters. Petrus à Soto. Petrus Asotus. 287. Peter of Soto. Cum vocatus esset ab Imperatore ad Concilium C●sariēse. when he was called by the Emperor to his Council at Caesarea. 297. To the Council of Caesarea. Videmus pios Principes procurationem Ecclesiarum ab officio suo nun● putasse alienan. We see that good Princes ever took the Administration of Ecclesiastical matters to pertain to their duty. 304. The proctorship, or procuration, or providing for Churches.  
NOW therefore to conclude, whether the Authors of the Apology in the Church in England, can discharge themselves of so evident faults as they are burdened withal by D. Harding, it may soon be tried by this brief show and Recapitulation which I have made of their faults. If they clear themselves, then shall we see wonders. If they fail in their defence, God give men the grace to build upon surer ground, than such men's Authorities. So may they return again unto the Church, from which they have departed very hastily, and so may they have forgiveness of all their faulties, in the Church, that hereafter they may live everlastingly.  
Amen.