A MARTIAL Conference, Pleasantly discoursed between two Soldiers, the one Captain Skill, trained up in the French and Low country services, the other Captain Pill, only practised in Finsbury fields in the modern wars of the renowned Duke of Shoreditch, and the mighty Prince Arthur.  
Newly translated out of Essex into English, by Barnaby Rich gentleman, Servant to the Queen's most excellent Majesty.  Malui me divitem esse quam vocari. LAB●… ET CONSTANTIA 
Printed at London for john Oxenbridge, dwelling in Paul's church yard at the sign of the Parrot 1598.   

To the most honourable and renowned Lord Sir George Carie, of the noble order of the Garter knight, Baron of Hunsdon, Governor and Captain of the Isle of Wight, Captain of her majesties Gentlemen Pensioners, Lord Chamberlain to her Majesty, and of her highness most honourable privy Counsel.  
IT hath pleased your Honour in favourable sort to accept of a first crop of my unsavoury fruits: unsavoury I may well call them that come from so barren a soil, too cold and dry, to nourish dainties, or to afford a pleasing plant, that may be savoury to your Lordships taste: but the field is yours, your Lordship hath purchased it, and tied it by band; for ever bound unto you by so many noble favours, it hath pleased your Honour to vouchsafe unto me: the fruits therefore both of my labours and of my leisures are due unto your Lordship, and do appertain unto your Honour all by proper right, and every man is inclined to accept of his own, and favourably to regard them, be they never so simple. I have therefore presumed to present you with a second crop, not so seasonable as they should be, by reason of mine own ill husbandry, that can not observe that Decorum looked after by Scholars and masters of Art and method: yet I hope my errors shall pass for the easier payment, and be the better borne withal, myself being a martial Professor; and continually armed to the proof, with a serviceable and dutiful heart to your Honour, and to that most noble and virtuous Lady, your Lordship's bedfellow, of whose favours I have tasted, and of whole worthiness the less I writ, the less I wrong her, and therefore as a subject too high for my conceit to reach unto, I will leave her to the praise of more happy pens than mine own, and may cease to write, but never to wish unto you both, all honour and happiness, that is not prejudicial to true happiness, and thus will rest  
Your L. in all humble and dutiful affection Barnaby Rich.   

To the friendly Reader.  
THere is nothing (friendly Reader) more necessary immediately after the knowledge of God, than to know how to manage our Martial causes, when it is most evident, that aswell Prince, country, religion, law, justice, subjects, and all together, are under the guard and protection of arms, & as the establishing of all happy estates, especially consisteth, first in religion and love of God, and then in the knowledge and practice of Arms, even so as there is nothing amongst the religious, more perilous than Sects, so amongst Soldiers there is nothing more dangerous than to be divided in opinions.  
The greatest controversy amongst us here in England, is the diversity in opinions concerning the long bow, for that being our ancient weapon, and whereby we have many times prevailed to the attaining of sundry notable victories, we are therefore still so naturally inclined towards it, that not only the multitude and common sort, whose greatest arguments are fury and h●…t, but many others that under pretence of great experience and skill, will enforce themselves to defend it, who ranging their passions to the tune of reason, will many times render such reasons as are more out of tune than the very passions themselves.  
In this Martial conference I have laid down all the reasons that I have heard alleged in the behalf of bows, the which I have done to this purpose, that no blind assertions, coloured under the pretence of great knowledge, should make us to affy ourselves in that which is not, nor yet to neglect that, which only is to be attained unto by great practice. I have likewise handled some other matters in a pleasurable sort, not of purpose to offend any man: and the men that are most unpatient are over contented to take words that are merrily spoken, in sport, for fear lest other might think they would not winch without a galld back: then how much rather is a dumb book to be borne withal, being generally written, but especially where the title pretendeth matter of pleasure, and without offence, if the Reader bring no offence with him.  
There be some that will admit of no books, that are not drawn from the very marrow and quintessence of wit, some other again are better pleased with fantastical and humorous devices: but I utterly dislike that fantastical humour, that writeth only for his own private praise, and not for some profit to others. If thou shalt find me poor in Art and Science, thou must understand the pen is no part of my profession. And thus not to pass the bounds of an Epistle, I rest thine in all courtesy.  
Barnaby Rich.   

¶ A Martial Conference, between Captain Skill and Captain Pill.  Skill. 
GEntleman, well overtaken, I hope you are riding towards London, whither myself am likewise travailing, and would be glad of good company.  Pill 
I am traveling towards London indeed sir, and am glad I have met with so good company as yourself do seem to be, but I pray you sir, let me crave your name.  Skill, 
Sir, you shall understand that I am by profession a soldier, and have served in the French and Low country services divers times, and in some other expeditions I have had charge, and therefore by such as know me, I am called by the name of Captain Skill.  Pill 
Truly sir, I do love you so much the better, for I myself am likewise a professor of Arms, and am called by the name of Captain Pill: and therefore I must love soldiers, nay more, I do reverence them, nay more yet, I do honour them: and I believe, that on● self same occasion hath now drawn on our acquaintance, and I think we go to London both of one errand.  Skill 
And I pray you sir, what might that be as you do think?  Pill 
Marry I think that this mustering in every part of the realm, and this preparation for the making ready of soldiers, is a sign of same great service intended, and I think of you as I think of myself, that being a noble captain as I am, you would be glad of employment, as I would be, and for that purpose you are going up to London, to make suit for a company of men, and I promise you so am I  Skill 
If that be your intent sir, God send you good speed, but in truth it is no part of my business: I never yet made special suit for a charge, and I will not begin now, and yet I have evermore been willing and ready to serve my Prince and country, and so I will continue as long as it shall please God to give me life and ability of body. But especially in these days, when so worthy a Commander, so noble an Earl doth endeavour himself in his own person, and hath so honoured his country with his exploits, that all Europe doth sound out his praise: first, the magnanimity of his mind in undertaking, his resolution and prowess in performing, his noble and valorous courage in conquering, his mercy to the conquered, his encouragement to those that serve and follow him, his comfort to the one, his courtesy to the other, his affability to both, his liberality to all, and his magnificence, as it hath not been common to generals till now of late years, so in any enterprise that he shall undertake, who would neglect to follow him, that may not only be said to be England's Mars, but may also be termed to be Europe's Honour?  Pill 
Captain Skill, you have inflamed me, nay you have mightily inflamed me with an honourable desire, and although hitherto I never made trial of my martial skill before any foreign foe, yet now by the faith of a Soldier I punish, that whosoever be the commander, or whither soener the journey, if I can get charge, either of horse or of foot, I will approve myself, and will not tarry behind.  Skill 
I know not Captain Pill how I might commend your courage, for me thinks I hear you say you never yet have encountered with any foreign foe, I pray you sir, where have you then had charge?  Pill 
Truly sir I never had charge, but once in Finsbury fields, in the mighty encounters between the renowned Duke of Shoreditch, and the puissant Prince Arthur, where I was a Wister in the field, and had the command of such a gallant troop, that if a man had the leading of them either in France or Flaunders, he might be thought a very unskilful Captain that could not pick out a thousand pounds a year amongst them.  Skill 
You should do well to procure 150. of them for this expedition which you think is now intended: but I pray you sir, have you never had any other command then this that you have spoken of?  Pill 
Why do you ask that question?  Skill 
Because by your own words you should seem to carry the title and reputation of a Captain, again you say, your journey now towards London, is to seek for a charge, now both your title and your intent do argue a far greater ability in you, than you have hitherto commended in yourself, for he is not worthy to be called Captain, nor fit to have a charge, that hath had no better training than Finsbury fields doth afford.  Pill 
But now Captain Skill, me thinks you skip a little beyond your skill, for if you have been of that continuance in service as yourself doth report of, if you have not known, yet I am sure you have heard of Captains of less practice than this that I have spoken of. Why man there be many of our Regiment, that are not only reputed for Captains by name (as to be called Master Captain when they walk up and down in Paul's, but otherwise by means of friends they have gotten charge indeed) when some of them know not so much as their own place in the field: but I must tell you, you are too precise if you will not admit of this: first he that hath had but the conducting of soldiers (be they more or less) to the water side, though he never served in the field, yet he is a Captain, nay he will be a Captain, he that hath but seen an ensign three times spread in the field, though he never saw ensign of the enemies, he must be a Captain: he that puts himself into the arming doublet, with the points with the silver tags, tied up in the pitch of the shoulder, a scarf about his arm, and a feather in his cap, he shall be a Captain: and he that will gainsay any of these, let him take heed to himself: but to dishonour a Captain deserves no less than a stab.  Skill 
I know (indeed) that some of them are as choleric as the Brewer's horse, but you shall see I will stand out of their way, and I would be loath to dishonour them more than they dishonour themselves, but is not he to be registered amongst your crew of Captains that will give money for his charge, and will buy a company of men, because he would be a Captain?  Pill 
Marry sir I will stand to it he is worthy to be a Captain, for he that hath money in his purse, and will disburse it to purchase a company of Soldiers, it argues great value and honesty tooin him that will do it.  Skill 
Valour as much as you list sir, but fie upon that honesty.  Pill 
Your reason why.  Skill 
Because, if he be an honest man that buyeth a company of Soldiers, he shall never make his money again of them.  Pill 
And he is a fool that will lay out his money to loss in this age.  Skill 
Why then let us commend his wit, but not his honesty.  Pill 
It is no matter sir what you commend or discommend, I warrant you they are at a point for that: but there are a number of Soldiers nowadays, who because they have had a little more training before an enemy, than we that never saw an enemy, do therefore think themselves to be so privileged, that they would have none to be employed with charge but themselves, but they are deceived, for perhaps we have better means for the matter than they, for we have money to procure friends, and we have friends to procure us charge, when sometime they shall go without.  Skill 
And the most of them when they have gotten charge, are as skilful both to deceive the Prince, and to cousin the Soldiers, as the proudest Captain in England, that hath served longest.  Pill 
Fie Captain Skill I must needs condemn you now, your words do stretch too far, how unseemly is it for Soldiers to inveigh against Soldiers: what speak you of deceiving the Prince, when every man doth seek to live by the Prince? he that hath an office and cannot gain by it, is a fool, and why should not Captains help themselves amongst the rest? And for the coosining of the Soldier, what and if a Captain do now and then get a crown out of his Soldiers months pay, alas it is nothing, it will scarce pay for an ounce of gold lace: and he that is not gallantly gilded, he is but of the basest sort of Captains, and therefore they must have helps.  Skill 
I have known Captains that have worn both gold and silver, without any cozenage or other deceit, either to Prince or Soldier: and to say truly, gold and silver is fittest for Captains, for those that may be said (indeed) to be Captains of worth.  Pill 
There are not many of those, for I know very few Captains nowadays that are worth much, and therefore he that will be a Captain of worth, he must learn to shift betimes, or it will not be.  Skill 
Captain Pill, your construction of a Captain of worth doth so commend your Martial skill, that I think a man of your experience were more worthy to be made a great officer in the field, then to be so meanly employed in the place of a private Captain, to have the command but of a hundred and fifty poor Soldiers.  Pill 
I tell you Captain Skill my words are mystical, and not to be conceited by every ordinary Soldier that is but of a dark & cloudy understanding, and for this sufficiency that you find to be in me, I do as highly commend your judgement, that can so readily discern it, and although that I have hitherto hidden my talon, yet now seeing so many men of less training then myself, are so ready to thrust themselves forward, and many times have obtained what they thrust so fast for, I will therefore venture my stake amongst the rest, for I see it is but fortune that ruleth all, virtue helps little, desert much less: Captains are not so much appointed for the knowledge they have gotten by service, as for the friends they are able to make, my Lord he speaks for one, my lady she sues for another: my Lord commends his man for his stomach, my Lady she praises her man for his courage: men have skill to persuade, women must not be denied when they sue, and he that hath a good stomach and is of a lusty courage, is fit to be a Captain.  Skill 
Indeed valiance is a special virtue for a Soldier, if these men may be said to have it.  Pill 
Why who will deny it them, or make any doubt but that they have it? he that hath lived all the days of his life at home amongst his friends, and never saw an enemy that might hurt him, and now will make a special suit to be a Captain, and to appose himself into so many perils, as he knows not what they are, nor what they mean: who will deny this man to be valiant?  Skill 
No man that is wise but will confess him to be as valiant a captain as ever ran himself in to danger without judgement, or as he that will leap the hedge before he hath seen the ditch.  Pill 
Yet there he some that will say it is a desperate kind of boldness, and they will call it rashness, and foolish hardiness, than they will make destinctions what is true valiance indeed, but these distinguishers are fit for the school then for the field.  Sill 
And I think these Captains had need to go to school with them, to learn a little wit how to demean themselves when they come to the field.  Pill 
Why should you think so, do you imagine that martial knowledge fit for the field is to be learned at a school?  Skill 
And how should he come by that martial knowledge, that never came in the field?  Pill 
And wherefore do men seek charge, but because they are willing to learn?  Skill 
Let them first learn, to obey, before they take upon them to command.  Pill 
It is a base mind in a Gentleman to serve unless he may command.  Skill 
It is a vain presumptuous mind in any man to seek to command, before he knows how to command.  Pill 
Do you call it presumption for a Gentleman t● endeavour himself to serve his Prince and country?  Skill 
I say it is the most honourable thing that any gentleman can endeavour, but I call it presumption in him that will take upon him to command before he have experience how.  Pill 
And how is experience sooner attained unto, then for a man to be in place where he may command?  Skill 
But that experience is at too high a rate, for the unskilful Physician, and the ignorant Captain do buy their experience with the price of men's lives, and therefore in the old time there was great regard had in the choosing of their Captains, and no man might command or have authority, that was under thirty years of age, but Alexander amongst the rest admitted none to the place of a Captain that was under threescore.  Pill 
But men were not so capable in those days as they are now, for now there be some, if they have but seen Soldiers trained on Mile-end-greene, or have borne office in a Midsummer sight, or have been at the fetching home a Maypole, they will by and by put themselves into the captains train, and they will look as big as Hannibal the great captain of Carthage, but he that should hear their table-talk when they be at their ordinaries, or amongst such company as knows them not, but by their own reports, would think that the nine worthies were but fools in comparison of these men, they will shake off their skermishes, they will martial their battles into squares, into triangles, into shears, into saws, into half moons, into snails, into gées, into esses, and into more proportions then either Langius Vygetius, or Machiuell himself did ever know of, though he wrote the art of war.  
Now for the winning of walled towns, the assailing of cittiedales, or the scaling of castles, what fortification so strong, which they will not surprise, but with discharging of two or three volies of oaths? And where was there ever General, were he never so noble, that could perform any service, how honourable so ever, which they will not censure and seem to control. In one thing they will say, opportunity was neglected, in another they will say, advantage was not taken, here they will say, discipline wanted, there again, foresight was not had, this might have been prevented thus, and that might have been done with better safety other way. Now who can think but that these men were crept into the very guts of martial skill, that are so skilful to find all manner of faults, and so expert beside in all other military practice?  
For the new discipline, they have it as freshly at their finger's ends, as he that first found it out, and they can command with as good a grace. And do but imagine now that I were at a training somewhere about London, mark how I could behave myself.  
soldiers rank yourselves into five, draw forward shot, so, very well done: now rank yourselves into six, double your ranks on the right hand, again as you were, march on fair and easily, double your files on the left hand, open your ranks, close your files.  Skill 
No more good Captain Pill, for here is no body to maintain the skirmish but you and I, and it is pity you should appose yourself to peril, where there is no better rescues at hand.  Pill 
But how do you like of my command Captain Skill? you see now I could do somewhat: but speak truly, how do you like of it?  Skill 
There is no man that can dislike of it, it may pass in despite of all the pages in the court, but you never learned this at Finsbury, I am sure of that.  Pill 
Wheresoever I learned it, no matter for that, you see I have it, & cunning is no burden, but do you not think my experience sufficient for the conduct of an hundred and fifty soldiers?  Skill 
Yes, and enough to cousin them all of their pay: and now I perceive indeed that young Captains are far more capable than they were in Alexander's time, or else they would never make so great suit to get charge, but I see it is skill that leads them unto it, and I have heard of some of those capable Captains, in place where they have been employed, that if they have but once mustered 100 men, within one month after they will not have 30. and yet I durst depose for them, that if they were brought to a days service, they would perform as great skill with that small number, as if they had five hundred to command.  Pill 
I think so, and it is no great wonder, for take heed of any man that is once grown so capable that he is apt to take any thing, but I will tell you of a Captain of a special virtue, that was once employed, I will not tell you the place whither, but it is no great matter though I name you the man, it was Captain Flaunt, who was sent with a hundred Soldiers to a place of service, where he had not stayed long, but he reduced his whole hundred of men into a just proportion of fifteen, besides his officers, which was a Lieutenant, an Ensign, a Sergeant, and a Drum. The 15 he reduced into three Squadrons, which was four to every Squadron, besides the three corporals.  
For his march, he would lightly rank them into three, and his fifteen men made just five ranks, never a man to spare.  
For an instant of service, upon any ground of advantage, he would bid them to turn their faces on the right or left hand, and then they were embattled into a broad square, ●…ue in front, and three in flank. If upon the plain he were enforced to a square battle, by thrusting in his Ensign, his number was just sixteen, which being drawn into Maniples, of four made a perfect square, every of like strength.  
If at any time he were disposed to martial them into Batalions, he would never make above three Batalions of his fifteen men, neither would he admit any more than five men to a Battalion, because he would do all things by proportion and art.  
To show his skill in the new discipline, he would rank his fifteen men into seven, which made two ranks, and one man to spare, then would he bid them to double their ranks on the right hand, so than he had just fourteen in rank, but where be the files? and this is called the wilegoose rank. Now if they had but turned their faces to the left hand, than the file was fourteen, but where be the ranks? and now they were drawn into an excellent proportion, fit to have passed any strait that had not been wonderful narrow.  
This is enough concerning his discipline, and now I will tell you how he passed a muster.  
It fell out, that the Lord deputy, or General, or some body it was that had the chief command in that place, would himself be present at a general muster, where Captain Flaunt amongst the rest, bringing in his muster role, his officers being first called, his Soldiers were now to answer to their names.  
There was first called Thomas Tatter, that had never a whole rag to put upon his back, not almost so much as would hide his tail. Captain Flaunt (quoth my Lord) if the rest of your company be in as good plight as this, me thinks they should be able to maintain a great days march, because they are not pestered with too much carriage at their backs.  
I warrant you my Lord (answered the Captain) you shall find them all alike, and I hope your Lordship shall see so serviceable a company, as would be glad to get their pay in any place in Christendom: well pass you by Thomas Tatter, who is next?  Slim Slatter, 
What Slim, bare legged and barefooted both? it is not yet a quarter of a year ago sithence I gave you twelve pence to buy brooges, but I see you have spent your money at the alehouse: I will tell your Lordship, if this man would not sometimes take three pots too many, he were as brave a footman as ever marched upon two bare feet, and I use him indeed for my vauntcurrour, to discover Ambuscadoes when I march in Bodalia: well pass by Slim Slatter, the next.  Nicholas Needy, 
come on Nicholas, a most dainty shot my Lord, and an excellent mark man, I do value him to be worth four men for his readiness and skill: he hath but one fault, and that is, he will never carry any powder in his slaske, I think he would sell his soul for good drink: pass by Nicholas Needy to the next.  Gilbert Greedy, 
a very lusty fellow, and a special Soldier, for a ward, or any place fortified: he loves not the field, but if he gets into a town, you shall never get him out again, till you pluck him out by the ears: Gilbert follow your fellow, and to the next.  Tom Trudge, 
an excellent shot, I had rather have him on my side in the day of service, than six of the best shot again in the field, that are not of mine own company, he hath lost the sere of his piece, but we will have it amended against the next musters, pass on Tom Trudge, who is next?  Davie Drudge, 
a man of a great sprite, I have known when he hath seen two hundred enemies in view, and he hath wished them all fast bound, both hand and foot, and himself amongst the thickest of them all alone, and had but a brown bill in his hand: well pass along Davie, and to the next.  Thomas Tattell 
mine own countryman, we were borne both in a parish, and for seven years together, I was sure once in a month to find him in a pair of stocks, or in a pillory: but for an able Soldier, I would not leave him for ten other in his place: go along Thomas, the next his Camirado.  Peter Prattle, 
an excellent skilful Soldier, more fit to lead others then to be commanded by any, he is so careful in his conduct, that I dare undertake he would never lead his company (with his own good will) where they should take any harm: Peter follow your Camirado, I do value that man for his skill to be worth 20 ordinary Soldiers: the next.  john Dory, 
an old Soldier you may see by all his furniture, it will scarce hang together with very antiquity: follow your fellows john Dory, to the next.  Sim Sorry, 
stand forth man: What I think thou hast been dancing of Friskin that sold for & hath sold his hatband for good ale, but I think thou hast sold all the clothes from thy back for good ale: but there treads not a better soldier upon this ground this day, and although he be not very sumptuous in his apparel, yet I dare undertake he shall shoot as far out of a musket, as he that is clad in satin and velvet: pass along Sim, who is next?  Laurence Lifter, 
a man if it were to fight a combat for a kingdom, and not worth so little as twenty men's pay: but a P. take the Beadles of Bridewell, they have made him lame of both his arms, but I warrant for his legs, if it come once to running retreat, the proudest of them all cannot mend him: pass along Laurence, to the next.  Simon Shifter, 
if I should speak of this man as I know he deserveth, I might crave patience to take half an hours breath. The several services that he hath seen, aswell upon plains, hills, dales, straits woods, groves, thickets & all other grounds of advantage, the dangers that he hath escaped from Constables, Headborrowes, and such other that are the common disturbers of that society, that loves not to meddle with her majesties Officers, the stratagems he hath devised to pass watches, wards and other ambushments that hau been laid to intercept him in his passages, if I should speak particuarly of his peregrinations what he hath seen & passed, you would say that if a hundred men should attempt the like, if one escaped scotfree, all the rest would be hanged. But to speak briefly of his knowledge in the art Military, I say he is able to martial an army of 20000 soldiers, to rank them into any fit proportion of battle, either for the encounter in the field, or for the assault of a breach, to quarter them, to encamp them, to bring them before any fortification, to plant them, to entrench them, nay, what can he not do that I myself can do? And what are an hundred ordinary soldiers to be compared to a man of his service?  
Here the Governor interrupting Captain Flaunt, demanded of him how many there were yet in his roll behind to be called, the Captain answered there were yet three, than said the Governor that maketh just 15. men by the paul, but as you have rated them, some one man to be worth four, some other six, some ten, some twenty, and now this last you say at a hundred, by this reckoning you have mustered already above an hundred & fifty, and you have pay but for one hundred, me thinks you do hinder yourself mightily to keep fifty or threescore men more than you have pay for.  
My good Lord (said the Captain) I would be loath to cousin my Prince, by taking her pay for a hundred, but I would bring her six score to the hundred, if I want of my number by paul, as it may seem now I want a few, yet if these that I have be duly considered of according to their worthiness (that are all of them especial choice men) I hope her Majesty may wish she had more such Captains, that so regardefully doth tender her service.  
But said the Governor, your men do make no such show as you do commend in them, for there is not any one amongst them that hath a good garment about him, nor almost a pair of shoes to his feet. O my Lord (answered the Captain) that is but their own humility, they cannot abide any pride, fie upon it; and fie upon these guarded garments, these feathers and scarves, they cannot abide them.  
But how now Captain Skill? me thinks you are half asleep, while I have been mustering of an hundred men, and yet have passed but twelve by the paul.  Skill 
You are deceived Captain Pill, I am not asleep; nay I am not so much as drowsy, for all this while that you have seen me thus silent, I have been learning of Captain Flaunt, first the martial skill that he used in his order and discipline, than the gallant show of selected Soldiers that he brought to the musters: but especially his fidelity to her Majesty, that would take pay for an hundred and serve her with fifteen, a great argument of his dutiful care.  Pill 
but you must consider of his soldiers, what choice men they were, what special skill they had, and therefore how to be esteemed.  Skill 
That is a matter indeed of great consideration, a very choice company, some chosen from the stocks, some from the pillory, some from Bridewell, some I think from New gate, and all fit for Bedlam.  Pill 
And why should you think them to be fit for Bedlam?  Skill 
Who were he that should see them so betottered, & betorne, but would rather think them to be mad men than soldiers? but how was Captain Flaunt himself, I hope he was better suited for a Captain?  Pill 
You may be sure Captain Flaunt wanted no suits that was fit for a Captain, and I will not give a penny for a captain nowadays that is not all to be gilded.  Skill 
And two pence apiece were a great deal more than some of them be worth, when they have gilded themselves as well as they can.  Pill 
You would make low prized captains, and I perceive we should have captains dog cheap, if you might have the rating of them.  Skill 
I promise you I would value them by their experience, not by their apparel, by their deeds, not by their words, for the Cornish diamond doth shine, yet but a counterfeit, and the bray of an Ass is no less hideous to the simple than the roar of a Lion.  Pill 
These are fowl comparisons, and great indignity to the reputation of Captains to be made Counterfeits, or to be reputed for Asses.  Skill 
Captain Pill, you mistake your text, I would be loath to prejudice a captain's page by my speeches, much less therefore his master: and is the perfect diamond the less to be esteemed of, because it is sometimes counterfeited? or may not a man say, an ass is but an ass, though he be wrapped in a lion's skin, without any offence to the lion himself?  Pill 
But I speak of no counterfeits, I speak of captains, such as have had charge, and have had the leading of soldiers in the field.  Skill 
And I speak of no captains that can either lead or command with skill, I speak but of counterfeits, that can do neither of both, and yet will take upon them to be captains.  Pill 
I cannot tell what those differences be that you would seem to make between captains and captains, but I call him a captain that hath had charge in the field, and I think him to be skilful enough, that hath courage enough to encounter with his enemy.  Skill 
Then jacke may be a Gentleman, because he hath bestrid my lord majors mule, but set a fool on horse back, and he will either catch a fall, or ride his horse out of breath: and for the courage that you speak of, who is so bold as blind bayard? But because you say you do not understand what the differences should be that I should make between captains and captains, I am contented to acquaint you with thus much what it is that I mean.  
There is no estate, be it empire, kingdom, or other common wealth whatsoever, that may be said to be established or surely settled, either from foreign invasion or intestine rebellion, which is not strengthened, stayed, upholden, and propped up by force of arms. This was the cause that Solomon, who in the holy scriptures is called Rex pacificus, and was still busied with the building of the holy Temple, forgot not yet to furnish his garrisons with expert men of war, horses and chariots, neither hath there been any well governed commonwealth, which hath neglected this care, but they have been at all times, in all ages, and in all places especially provident in this behalf.  
It would be tedious for me to deliver, how cheerful they have been in encouraging, how liberal in rewarding, how industrious in training, how diligent in instructing and practising of men to enable them with skill, and to make them expert in the knowledge and feats of war, when they were not ignorant, but would always acknowledge, that both prince, country, life, liberty, goods, law, justice, religion, and all together, depended in the skill of the soldier, and the knowledge of arms.  
If the matter be of this importance, can you blame princes, that have evermore been scrupulous in the appointing of their armies, and would never admit of any to be conduetors, leaders, and commanders, but such as by continuance and practice were found to be of approved skill, and of tried and known experience, and not to pester their squadrons with younglings of little wit and less understanding, who, because they have seen soldiers a little trained and made ready, or perhaps have served some month or six weeks where they might see a little, will upon this presume to thrust themselves into charge, foolishly taking upon them that they are not able to perform, when by the indiscretion of such a captain a whole army may be overthrown, which may concern no less than the subversion of a kingdom, and the loss of a prince's crown.  
The matter therefore is not lightly to be regarded, though I do not amplify and enforce it as I could, and her Majesty hath paid dearly for the service of some of these hasly mad captains, in some places I could name, if I were disposed to infer precedents: but letting this pass, if for the attainment of a seely occupation no less than seven years, apprenticeship is required, before a man may be thought sufficient in skill or admitted to trade, how happeneth it then that in the Art Military, wherein there was never man so well practised (no though he had served seven times seven years) which was not yet to seek, and every day to learn, and yet novices that have not been of seven months practice, nay sometimes not of seven weeks training have been thrust into charge, that hath neither skill nor science to command, no nor to perform the least duty that appertaineth to a captain of understanding.  
It is not enough for a man that shall have charge, to march before his company with a feather in his cap, and a gilt leading staff in his hand, not although he have daring enough in him to bring his men to a hot encounter, for Fortune is in nothing more variable than in the action of war, and more victories have been lost for want of skill, than for want of strength or courage: but if it be true that he that hath courage enough may be thought to have skill enough, it were happy for our English nation, that are generally a people of so great courage and valour, as they are not agaïne to be seconded with the like, and yet evermore over reached by policy, sometimes with the barbarous Irish.  
The Captain therefore that relieth so much in his courage without skill, is like a blind man in a dangerous passage, and thinketh scorn to be led: for although that courage be an especial ornament, wherewith a Captain should be iudued, yet courage without skill is not true valiance, but rather may be said to be rash and foolish hardiness, for so it hath ever been defined by the wise men of the world.  
That courage (saith Cicero) that is forward to danger without judgement, may rather bear the name of lewd hardiness, then of manliness: The want of knowledge breedeth the want of skill (saith Xenophon: And Solomon saith, a wise man is ever strong, a man of understanding increaseth in strength. And Cato prescribeth three especial special virtues that ought to be in a Captain, that is to say, Experience Policy, and Valiance.  
Here you may see, that although Valiance be a special ornament for a Captain, yet it martheth in the rearward, preferring the other two as more worthy, for it is not enough for the valiant man to do what he can, but he must likewise take heed that he attempt nothing but what he ought, and therefore without experience he shall run into many errors, and where Valiance serveth only but for execution, Policy is he that prepareth the mean.  Pill 
But me thinks Captain Skill, you are somewhat too nice in mincing of this word Valiance, which I do take to be a natural gift, but you would seem to couple it I know not to what skill, and would admit of no man to be valiant, that were not almost as wise as Solomon.  Skill 
It I have been too nice in the mincing of my words, they are the fit for your queas●ie stomach, which I perceive to be neither of sound digestion, nor of savoury understanding, for although I do not think that every valiant man must necessarily be almost as wise as Solomon, yet of this I can undoubtedly assure you, that there was never fool that might be said to have any valiance at all,  Pill 
But I speak not of extremities, for say that a brave and gallant minded Gentleman would courageously take a charge upon him, though he never in his life had served before an enemy, whereby to attain to any knowledge, may not this man yet be esteemed for valiant? or would you not put some difference between him and a fool?  Skill 
Just as much difference as is between a green Goose and a gosling, and for his valiance you do partly know my mind: but you say that I have already minced the word over nicely, but I will mince it a little better, because I would be loath you should hurt your teeth in she chewing.  
Valiance is a virtue that fighteth for equity and justice, for nothing may be holden for honest, that is void of justice, and as that knowledge, skill, or. policy, that is severed from justice, is rather called subtlety then wisdom, and in his best account is esteemed but for craft and deceit, so that courage that is forward to danger, more for vain glory and greedy desire, then for a common profit and a general good, is rather to be termed desperate boldness than valiance.  
There is nothing therefore more inciting to true Christian valiance, then when a man shall remember he goeth to fight in a just and honest cause: for when I know I shall adventure my life in the maintenauce of God's true religion, in the service of my Prince, or defence of my country, whether I live or die, in this case I may live or die in the service and fear of God: my quarrel is good, here is no corrosive to my conscience, that may dismay or terrify me, and therefore I will add thus much more, there is no man may be said to be truly valiant indeed, that is not truly religious, and hath the fear of God before his eyes: for which cause Machiuell the devils politician, in his politic Prescriptions, thinketh that it is not convenient for a Captain, to be overmuch inclined to religion, because (saith he) if he be too zealous, it might inféeble his courage: but the Captains that he thus enticeth, be such as he otherwise induceth to all manner of fraud, deceit, and injury, neither to make conscience of their quarrel, nor by what means they oppress, so they may overcome, for he knew well enough, that if there were any feeling in them of true religion, that it would be a check to their ambition and pride, and thereby an abatement of their harebrained rashness, which by them is called courage and valiance.  
But let Machiuell go, and the rest to bear him company, that do think that Christian valiance consisted otherwise then in the maintenance of justice and right, or that a man may be said to be truly valiant, that hath no respect to the equity of his cause, nor remorse to his God.  Pill 
Why then you grant that the Captain that feareth God may yet be valiant, though he be unskilful.  Skill 
If you will grant again, that if a Captain feareth God as he should, he would rather be uncaptained, than to be a conductor of men to the slaughter by his unskilfulness.  Pill 
Captain Skill you do over reach me, but you cannot discaptaine us thus, for we will be captains and have charge too, say you what you list, or the best friends that we have shall fail us.  Skill 
It shall never offend me, I will still wish that your service may prove but half so beneficial to the Prince, as I doubt not but you will make it profitable to yourselves, and I warrant your friends may then have greater joy of your preferment, then hope of any hurt that you will do to an enemy.  Pill 
In good faith captain Skill you are too precise, you are up with your justice, equity, good conscience, and I cannot tell what: I tell you captain Skill, it is more preacherlike than soldierlike: than you would cram more religion into one captain than would suffice for three or four honest men, it is better for a man (in this age) to be wise in religion, then to be so full of zeal as you would have him, and I tell you for my part I am just of his religion, that having several daughters, would not stick to marry one to a papist, and another to a protestant: and I tell you again they are no fools that are of that religion.  Skill 
Captain Pill, hold you still in that tract, for you are now in the right high way to promotion, and you may perhaps get an office when it shall fall, and therefore cling fast to that religion, for I tell you it is full of policy.  Pill 
If it be so full of policy, it is the fit for me that am a Captain, for I heard you say, that policy was one of the three especial virtues, that Cato would have appertinent to a Captain.  Skill 
But in these days there are many things, that do pass under the title of policy, that in Cato's time they would have called flat knavery.  Pill 
But I speak of the time as it is now, and you say there be two virtues more, that Cato's Captains must be inspired with, and that is Experience and Valiance.  
Now for experience, though I have it not in such a form of perfect discipline for the martialling of men, as I think Cato speaketh of in the place, yet I have one principle, which being well observed, may stand a Captain in as much stead for his profit and commodity, as any experience Cato could prescribe.  Skill 
May I crave of you what principle that might be?  Pill 
A matter of nothing among friends, but yet for him that is crept into a charge, & would be glad to make some gain by his company, he must in no wise think that bribery is sin, or whatsoever he thinks, let him be sure that he never open his lips to speak against it,  Skill 
Perhaps you think that the Clerk of the Chequer would sometimes be angry with that Captain that should speak against bribery, and that would be the worse for him when he should pass his musters.  Pill 
Perhaps I did not so much as think of the Clerk of the Chequer, but take this for a maxim, he that knows both how to give, & how to take a bribe, may run through any affairs whatsoever.  Skill 
If you be so sure as you make semblance, we wit set it down, Probacum est. And now for Policy and Experience I perceive you are very well furnished, but what say you now for Valiance?  Pill 
He that will say I am not valiant, swoons I will give him the stab.  Skill 
Why is that such an argument of valiance, to stab a man suddenly before he be prepared to make defence?  Pill 
Yea marry is it sir, & you may easily know a Captain, if he be of any gallant courage even by that same word stab, for that must be still at his tongue's end, than he must have change of oaths, (for that is a wonderful grace to a valiant man) and to thrust them from him as if he would make his audience to tremble, and heaven itself to shake but with the very breath of his displeasure.  
These be infallible arguments of a valorous mind indeed, but you would tie valiance to justice and conscience, and I cannot tell what: but what affinity hath valiance with justice & conscience? the one is fit for the king's bench, the other for the Chancery, and what have soldiers to do, with matters of justice, when you shall never see a justice of peace, that with his good will doth love to come amongst them in place where they are?  
Now for conscience, I think there is no man so ungodly that hath not a special care of it, and I believe (for the greatest number) of as good remorse as the wolf that went to sir john to be shriven, who having made a sorrowful confession of his sins, was enjoined by his ghostly father for penance, to fast twenty four hours, during which space, he might eat no more meat than in his conscience was worth above three half pence, the Wolf going homeward met in the way with an ewe and her lamb, and being very hungry, yet having respect to his conscience (as the priest had enjoined him) valued the ewe to be worth a penny, and the lamb to be worth a halfpenny, and thus did eat them up both with a good conscience.  Skill 
Well Captain Pill I would that wolvish conscience were not in their bossomes that can do more hurt in England, than a hundred thousand soldiers are able to do in Spain.  Pill 
A hundred thousand soldiers were able for to overrun all Spain.  Skill 
But a hundred of those wolves were able for to spoil all England.  Pill 
And he that will make himself a sheep, it is no matter though the wolves do eat him.  Skill 
But these wolves are able to make jack a napes a sheep, a wise man a fool, and a fool a wise man.  Pill 
Those are metamorphosing Wolves, but can they not make knaves honest men?  Skill 
That they will never do, but they will sooner make honest men knaves.  Pill 
Let those wolves go to the gallows for me, and let not us that are soldiers seem to contend y● one against the other, but let us learn of them.  Skill 
What would you have us learn of them, to go to the gallows with them do you mean?  Pill 
Let them go to the gallows by themselves that have deserved it, and let us learn of them to be wise, let us learn of them to thrive and help ourselves, and let's learn of them to run smoothly through the world, for those fellows I warrant you can bite when they do not bark.  Skill 
An ill condition that same, for I remember a foolish tale of a noble man sometimes here in England, who bearing malice to a poor gentleman that dwelled not far from him, did by many means so covertly and slily wring and oppress him, that the poor Gentleman, finding how the game went, thought it best to seek unto him, and with submissive speeches besought his lordship, not to stand grievous unto him, protesting that he had never offended him to his knowledge, but would be glad to tender unto him any service that might be favourably accepted of.  
Why (quoth my lord) what should make you to use these speeches unto me? My good lord (answered the other) I do find myself to be crossed and hindered by many means, and I do undoubtedly know that it is your lordship's displeasure borne unto me, that doth thus overburthen me.  
Why then (said the noble man) if you do find yourself so overborne by me, you see then I can bite, though I bark not.  
I do see it, and feel it (my good Lord, answered the other) but I protest, if I had a dog that were of that quality, I would hang him as soon as ever I came home.  
And I promise you captain Pill, I am of this Gentleman's mind, I do not like of these flearing curs, that will first fawn in a man's face, and after bite him by the shins, I would such curs were hanged (say I) and these base demeanours of all others, are unfitting for soldiers.  Pill 
I pray you captain Skill, what is it that you do think to be best befitting for a soldier?  Skill 
I have already told you, there is nothing more honourable in a soldier than true christian valiance, which expelling all particular affectations (with invincible courage) fighteth but only for equity and right, for what can be more blessed than this justice and right, whereby we resraine all injury and wrong, giving to every one what to him appertaineth?  Pill 
But you stand upon the etymology of words, and you would make Valiance to be but a derivative, drawing it from justice, Conscience, Religion, and I wots not what, but if your distinctions be of worth, I know but a few captains in England, that may be said to be valiant, and that were an ill turn for her Majesty when she should have occasion to employ them.  Skill. 
You say I would derive Valiance from justice, Conscience, Religion, and you know not what, but you would derive it from stabbing, swashing, swearing, blaspheming, and it makes no matter what: but for valiant Captains, no doubt but her Majesty is better provided than your understanding doth serve to conceive of, if not, she might pay dearly for it in the time of service, for what success might be hoped for by these wars, that are supplied by men altogether irreligious, profane, godless, and sometimes unskilful withal: far be it from her majesties thought, to put her trust in those men that have neither trust nor fear of God, or to commit her quarrel to their fortunes, whom God hath not promised to bless, but hath confidently pronounced against them his malediction and curse.  Pill 
Without doubt (captain Skill) you do too much over run yourself, your words do rub a great many Gentlemen overthwart the shins more than you are aware of: what and if a Gentleman sometimes, of a brave and lusty courage should swear half an hour together by the clock? a wise conclusion I promise you, that for swearing of two or three dozen of oaths, a man should therefore be condemned to be irreligious, profane and godless, a pretty jest, fit for a fool to sport at, than for a wise man to believe, and for these fellows that prate so much of religion, that have nothing for an oath but, yes verily, and no truly, and I pray you swear not, trust such a one he that listeth, but I can tell you what you shall find of him: but away with the hypocrite, and give me him that cannot dissemble, who speaking what he thinketh, will swear what he speaketh: here is no double dealing, this man hath neither falsehood forged in his tongue, nor passion smothered in his heart, but his words, his oaths, his countenance, his demeanour, and all his whole government, shall bewray and lay open, how he is affected, to what he is inclined, and whereunto he is disposed.  
But for a man to express his anger in a mild and softly manner, it is more Meacocke-like than soldier-like, how disgraceful were it for a captain upon any discontentment, when he should thunder forth his fury, & that with such horror as the heavens should tremble at the very echo of his oaths, but neglecting this captaine-like demeanour, as though he were half afraid, will pinch me forth an oath; swearing like one of the queens silk women, now by gods dainty dear, I will not digest so great indignity, and by cock and pie, I will be revenged of the injury.  
How ill beseeming were this for a Soldier? but most odious and loathsome for a captain: but these thréedbare oaths are most fit for thréedbare fellows, and let soldiers show themselves in all their demeanours, like men, and not like meacockes.  Skill 
Without doubt captain Pill, you have spoken as well in the commendation of swearing, as if you had been a graduate in that profession: but yet for the courage that you would thereby attribute to those that do use it, it is like the commendation that a noble man's fool did sometimes give to a merchant of London in the praise of his wives honesty, which (as I remember) fell out in this manner:  
A noble man that was invited by a merchant of London to a dinner, brought with him a fool, who being but a natural, was yet so full of sport (which pleased so well his Lord and master) that he would never have this fool from his heels: and coming to the merchant's house, he found a great Ape that was tied in a chain without in the court, with whom the fool encountering, the Ape amongst our new-fangled fellows, was not to learn, but had got the Mop, the Mowe, the Mump, the Nod, the Shrug, the Baseles mains, the Congée, and all the rest of those graces; that are used by our Fantastikes in these days.  
And the fool again, he could dowke with the Friar, look askance with the Physician that were casting of a woman's water, grin with the young heir that had lately buried a miserable father, gape with him that waited for a benefice, frown with him that was chanced six and seven and all to ten, yet lost both by and main: to be short, he could change his looks, and make as many mad faces as he that takes Tobacco.  
This glee between the Fool and the Ape made the company merry, but specially my lord who laughed hearty to see the greeting and entertainment that was between them: at the last, the fool turning to the goodman of the house, asked of him, who that same was that he had so tied up, whom the merchant answered, that it was one of his boys: now by my troth (said the fool) it is a very pretty boy, and I warrant him, it he live, he will prove a very good fellow.  
Thus leaving the Ape, they were no sooner entered into the Merchant's house, but the Fool espied a great Monkey. What said the fool to the merchant, is this another of thy boys? Yea marry is it Robin (said the merchant) this is an other of my boys, and as honest a man as the other, though he be somewhat younger. Well (said the fool) I warrant thee thou hast an honest woman to thy wife: Why so Robin (said the merchant) how knowest thou that? It must needs be (said the fool) thy boys be all of them so like thyself.  
Now I can not see but that this commendation thus given, doth as fitly concern the woman's honesty, as the praises you have so much endeavoured, may concern any man's courage or valiance, for the babes that you so much set forth, they are but like the merchants boys, this swearing, this staring, and this blaspheming, which you would have so captain like, they are all but Apes and Monkeys.  Pill 
I cannot tell (captain Skill) what construction I should make of your history: but I hope you do not mean to give me the fool by circumstance.  Skill 
I hope (captain Pill) I shall not need to do that, for if you were thoroughly acquainted with me, you would say there were no circumstance in me.  
You say you profess Arms, and I am contented to believe you, you take upon you to be a captain, yet you never had charge but in Finsbury fields, you think that any man that is valiant is fit to have conduct, & you cannot tell what true valiance meaneth. Once again therefore I am contented to tell you, every virtue hath his counterfeit follower, for as deceit, sometimes creeping in is called Policy, so Rashness shroudeth itself under the title of Fortitude: and as it is true, that all valiant men are hardy, so it is likewise as true, that all hardy men are not valiant: and therefore briefly to conclude, he is not truly said to be valiant, that is not first strengthened by God, and fortified again by his own skill and knowledge.  
Now concerning Captains, it is not the place of a Captain that dignifieth the unworthy person, who is not able to execute it, but it is the worthiness of him that is appointed to the place, that dignifieth and renowneth the room.  
The title of Captain hath been an honourable reputation, it is now grown to be a matter of scorn to be called Captain, when so many base and unworthy persons will needs march under that title, that knoweth not the least duty that appertaineth to a Captain.  
The antiquity would never admit of any Captain that was either insufficient in skill, or openly detected for vice: swearing breedeth hatefulness to all honest ears, covetousness extorting both of Prince and Soldier, pride bringeth with it disdain: but how odious a thing it is to see a Captain himself to be glittering in gold, and to see his poor soldiers to follow with no hose to their legs, nor shoes to their feet.  
Cato being Censurer to make choice of a General in the Panonian wars, openly disgraced and dismissed Publiu●, because he had seen him walk the streets of Rome perfumed.  
And as they were thus precise in the choice of their captains, so they were as heedful, not suffering them to enter into unlawful actions, that were void of justice, honesty, or piety: they punished nothing with more severity than those enterprises that were either attempted against commandment, or undertaken against reason: but as they punished those victories that were attained by lewd and foolish hardiness, so misfortune diminished not his reputation, that attempted with discretion, neither attributing cowardliness to ill success, nor valiance to good fortune.  
The camp in those days was a school of honour, justice, obedience, duty, and loyalty, but now a den of deceit, treachery, thievery, robbery, and all manner of impiety.  
But if this regard in the choosing of captains were used by the antiquity so many years ago, when armies used to appoint the field, & when their whole forces were brought to an encounter, where the weakness of a captain might be the better borne withal, where there were so many superior officers to direct him, how much more rather should we be more circumspect in these days, in the appointing of our captains, when his skill and knowledge doth not only concern the safety or loss of many men's lives, (which every good captain should prefer before the kill of his enemies) but especially service standing now as it doth, most comely in skirmishes, where the captain is not helped, but with the advantage of his own experience? I wonder therefore how so many insufficient men dare oppose themselves to undertake a matter of so great importance, where their want of knowledge may sometimes be the occasion of too much rashness, and sometime again lead them into timerity and want of courage, which may concern no less than the loss of all together.  Pill 
You say there is no circumstance in you, and then your plain meaning must follow thus, you would not admit of any man to have conduct, but he that hath experience, and I am contented to allow you that, but here is the matter, you think no man can attain to this experience, that hath not served in Flanders or in France: you say I have served but in Finsbury fields, and you see me to make but a trifle of that: but captain Skill, to deal without circumstance, as you say you have done with me, and to tell you in as plain terms as you have told me, I think you do not know from whence experience grows, nor where it is to be sought for, you think no where but in Flanders or in France, but sir, you are deceived, neither is it long training and much exercise that makes every man fit to be a captain, although there is no man so unapt, but with use is made more perfect: but that experience that is fit for a captain, and that is worthy to carry the credit of Martial skill (indeed) is to be attained unto without crossing the seas, nay, without any manner of training at all, and that by two especial means.  Skill 
I pray you let's hear the first.  Pill 
The first is, when almost every ordinary about London may be said to be an Academy of martial skill, where many times those captains that are of our Regiment shall spend you the whole mealetide, be it dinner or supper, with nothing but martial discourses, dilating of offices, of orders, of laws, of disciplines, of stratagems, of watching, of warding, of charging of retiring, of offending, of defending, of winning, of losing, of approaching, of surprising, and you shall never hear them but they will still conclude with victory, and therein consisteth their skill, that they will evermore be conquerors, they will never lose by any misfortune, and yet but in one dinners discourse they will settle the king of France into a quiet government, they will banish the Spaniards from out the low countries, they will reform Ireland, they will thrust the king of Spain clean out of Portugal, they will take from him his Indies, and they will not forget to eat their meat, and to drink three or four healths.  
What service hath there been, or may be so performed, which shall not be there lectured and read of a commentary drawn from the circumstances, every parcel paraphrased and altogether metamorphosed.  Skill 
Captain Pill, as long as I have lived, and as many places as I have travailed, I could never tell whither to go where I might hear a lecture of the art Military to be read before, but now I perceive it is at your ordinaries where you use to dine and sup.  Pill 
Now you know where experience is to be sought for, but from whom is it to be learned, what from your low country Soldiers only do you think? no sir, there is no such matter, yet perhaps some of these readers have been in France or in Flanders a fortnight or three weeks, but what is this in comparison of their skill, or how should they attain to this grounded experience, that never saw an enemy surprised in the field, and yet they will perform greater conquests but sitting at a table, than ever did Alexander when he conquered the world? you may easily think now this is not a months training in the field, that could thus enable these men, but that there is in them such further science and art, as doth tar surmount their field experience.  Skill 
I think it be one of the seven liberal sciences that doth thus enable them, and I believe this exceeding skill consisteth especially in the Art of Asse-trologie.  Pill 
Your conjecture is pretty, and there is some ground to lead you unto it, because by Astrology they may calculate both of fortunate and infortunate hours, and a captain of that skill may help himself in all his enterprises, but for these men, they are not able only to control what is already past, but they are of like ability to censure any thing that is yet to come, for let there be any enterprise undertaken, or service intended, and they will say aforehand what will be the success, as soon as ever they do hear of it.  Skill 
It is wonderful knowledge that you speak of, and I think it every way comparable with the physician, that if he did but look of a cows water, could tell how many pints of milk she would give in a year: and now I perceive that the first of your two especial means where martial skill is to be sought for, is at a London ordinary: now me thinks your second should be in a Barber's shop, for there be many learned discourses handled, or else I have heard lies.  Pill 
The second mean whereby to attain to the full perfection of Military skill, is by reading of books, Lucullus by that only study, became one of the noblest Captains of all the Romans: & is it any marvel, when there we may find written a perfect form, as well of orders, disciplines, stratagems, and whatsoever hath been observed, practised, and experimented by the most skilful Captains of all ages, and what knowledge our predecessors hath attained unto by forty years study, we may partly comprehend in one months reading.  
A man if he have seen the accidents what hath happened in the wars thirty or forty years, it may be said he hath seen much, but in books, what hath been performed in a thousand, may be overlooked in a very few hours.  Skill 
I will confess where experience is helped by learning, there experience is far more excellent, wit more pregnant and policy more ready, for without art who can conceive the ordering and disposing of men into several forms of battle, and suddenly to alter them again into new proportions, upon new occasions, or what memory can contain so many forms, and so many proportions for all manner of numbers without Arithmetic: again, for fortifications, who can comprehend any small knowledge in it, or any ingenious instruments, that may be either apt for offence or defence, that hath not some skill in Geometry?  
And as art and science is thus beneficial to Martial knowledge, so the reading of books may be of like importance, to give give us light how wars have been areared, prosecuted, and performed, but he that hath no better experience than his reading, is as fit to be a Captain, and to have the conducting of men to the field, as he that hath but read the art of Navigation may be fit to conduct a ship to the sea: for although Galene furnisheth the physician with approved medicines for every disease, yet he were a desperate patient that in an extremity of sickness would venture to take Physic of him that hath never had better practise then his reading.  Pill 
Thus I perceive you will not admit that a man may attain to any perfection in Martial skill, by reading or by the study of his book, but he must needs go seek it in the French or Low country services: and you do well to arrogate to yourselves this science and knowledge, but there are some other that are of a contrary opinion, who do think, that amongst all the rest that do profess arms, they must needs be most insufficient, that have had their only training but in those tumultuary and licentious wars, where neither order, discipline, nor any form of tuo militia was ever observed.  Skill 
But what wars are these that are so tumultuary and licentious as you speak of?  Pill 
The tumultuary wars of Flanders, and the licentious wars of France, which have been first undertaken by sedition, passion, and faction, and since continued by spoil, disobedience, confusion, and disorder, where the precepts and prescriptions of the great Captains that have served in the well form wars of Emperors and Kings, hath been neglected, despised, and set at nought, by new-fangled fellows lately start up, with too much overweening of their own experience, who under the pretence of skill have confounded all skill left unto us by the antiquity, and in the steed thereof have set up a discipline of licentious liberty, of spoiling, of robbing, of disobedience, and disorder.  Skill 
I would not for forty shillings that any wise man in England should be of this opinion, or that any fool were so mad to believe it.  Pill 
I can assure you it hath been confidently persuaded, by some that are not only known to be of a glorious wit, but also of no less understanding in matters military, it is likewise received and believed, and by no fools, but by a great number of men of all sorts, that do not only think those wars to be licentious, tumultuary, disordered, begun, maintained, and continued, against all right and honesty, but it is further believed amongst them, that those country services are unfit to make a soldier.  Skill 
But those men that will not believe that those country services are fit to make a soldier, will easily believe that one of those country priests may make a god.  Pill 
I know not that, but what is this to the purpose?  Skill 
Because if their belief be not mere madness, it is a matter of more importance to make a soldier than to make a god, for they will not deny but a priest may make a god but with three words speaking, but they will not confess how those wars will breed a soldier in thirty years training, it is no matter therefore what they affirm or deny in any thing, that are so blind and senseless in every thing.  Pill 
But for all that captain Skill, there be many particulars inferred against your low-country captains, that are both odious and reproachful to be recited, and yet are so received, digested, & believed for matters of truth, as will not easily again be dissuaded to the contrary.  Skill 
And may I crave to hear some of those particulars what they be?  Pill 
I will not stick with you for that, but will recite some of them as I have heard them alleged, neither will I speak of the low country services, how they have been managed in these latter times, but how they were abused, corrupted, and confounded, before my L. of Leicester came into that country, sith which time, those abuses, corruptions, and confusions then hatched up, have been retained until this day, and are yet prejudicial to the laws, disciplines, and ordinances left to us by the great captains of former ages, as in some particulars I will hereafter deliver. But now a little of the services themselves, and first to speak of the intestine wars so many years continued in France, where they have not had any possible means to maintain any other than a deformed and disordered Militia, by reason of the long continuance of those troubles and dissensions, whereby the rents, revenues, and other aids and supplies of treasure, have so failed and wanted amongst them, that they have not been able to pay their armies, whereby to contain their men of war in any discipline or order.  
The like again is to be said of the Low countries, where both Mercenaries and subjects have served, but under a popular government, consisting of divers heads, where the hirelings of several nations were drawn together, who through want of pay, (and having no other hope of reward for extraordinary desert) lived only by foraging, filching, spoiling, and stealing.  
From hence it is not only to be presupposed, but may rather certainly be concluded, that such officers captains and soldiers whosoever, that have had their training & practice in such licentious and tumultuary services (be they subjects or mercenaries) are never fit after to serve in any reformed wars, who will not be reduced to contain themselves under any severity of laws martial, where order or discipline should be duly observed.  Skill 
These allegations (captain Pill) that you have here inferred with such pregnancy and skill, we may well deride them into three parts.  Pill 
You mean you may divide them into three parts, I am sure you will not deride nor scoff at any thing that hath been formerly avouched by men of great gravity and wit: but let us hear your division.  Skill 
Well, séeeing you will not have it a derision, the sum of what you have said is thus much in effect.  First, 
the want of pay, enforceth the breach of discipline.  
Secondly, the breach of discipline enforceth but licentious and tumultuary wars.  
Thirdly, tumultuary and licentious wars, traineth up unfitting Soldiers to be employed in any reformed services.  
Now for the first, that the want of pay enforceth the breach of discipline, it is not to be denied, but in those wars where Soldiers are not paid, or at the least provided for of victual, that they must necessarily make disordered shifts, or famish: but doth the discipline of war consist only in that point, that when Soldiers be kept from spoil, that then thy be kept in true Martial discipline? I trow in the French & low country services they have observed other parts of discipline, or they could never have triumphed in so many worthy victories, against so mighty enemies.  
For the second, say that the disciplines of war were thus infringed and broken, doth this second assertion (that the breach of discipline engendereth but tumultuary and licentious wars) therefore necessarily follow? if that be a consequence, what wars hath there ever been performed, that may be said to be legitimate, but that the disciplines in some mean or other, hath been infringed by disordered persons, or what government under any Prince might not then be detected and discredited, that hath his laws and ordinances many times broken by disordered subjects? and the church of God prescribeth disciplines, which are continually infringed and broken, but shall we therefore when we have occasion to speak of this church, put to any opprobrious or unreverend additions?  
Now who knoweth not but that the Low-countrieses wars were first undertaken for the rights and liberties of the Country, to free themselves from a tyrannical government, usurped by the Spaniards, as also for the free passage of the Gospel, and therefore both honest, just, and godly? in like manner that of France, and therefore they cannot be said to be tumultuary, licentious, disordered, etc. because their disciplines are broken, but they worthily to be suspected that will so maliciously report of them.  
Now for your third consequence, that soldiers trained up in those services, should be unfit to be otherwise employed in any reformed wars: the conclusion is too rank, it smells from whence it came, but is it not possible, that a Soldier, because he hath been driven sometimes for want of pay to relieve himself from famishment, (although by the breach of law) shall afterward reduce himself, and be confirmable to any law, order, or disciplive, where he should either be better provided for, or duly paid?  
I could allege precedents to make for my purpose, but what should I need? these choleric conjectures are well enough known from whence they were first gathered, and by whom they have sithence been retained: by those that have laboured at all times, and by all means, to disgrace and deface the whole actions both of France and Flanders, together with the actors, because they know we have evermore fought in the defence of the Gospel, in despite of their mass.  Pill 
I must confess, Captain Skill, that for myself I never came in Flanders nor France, and therefore am able to deliver nothing of mine own knowledge, but what I have heard by other men's reports, neither will I add any thing of mine own invention maliciously to slander, I shall not need to do that, for it is too much that is already published and spread in the disgrace of your French and Low-countries Captains, if all be true that is reported, but leaning generalities, I will speak of some particulars. They are accused, not only for despising, but also for perverting the laws, customs, orders and ordinances left unto us, by the great and notable Captains of former ages innovating, altering and inverting all our ancient proceedings in matters military by them prescribed into orders of their own invention, attributing to themselves greater science and skill, than they will seem to acknowledge in our predecessors, procuring moreover (so much as in them lieth) by frivolous objections and exceptions, taken against our Archery, to suppress and extinguish the serviceable use of our natural English weapon, the long bow.  Skill 
The matter is not great (Captain Pill) whether these accusations be of your own making, or of any other man's reporting, for any great substance or wit that is in them, and for this particular, it were no great matter to acknowledge and confess it to any man that would enforce it, for if it be a fault to innovate, I dare boldly avouch, there is no art, no science, no occupation, no handicraft, nor any other profession whatsoever, but they innovate, altar, and invert, and that continually, and with great reason, when from age to age all things are perfected, bettered, and drawn to a form of greater excellency, than ever our predecessors understood of.  
The reason is, our ancestors from time to time have left unto us in writing, whatsoever they attained unto by any manner of skill, knowledge, science, or art, and we have put unto it our own invention, and what we can otherwise apprehend by daily practice, I hope then that Soldiers are not generally so gross headed, when there is likewise left unto them in writings, a perfect form, as well of orders, laws and disciplines, as of all other observations, whatsoever hath been practised by the most skilful Captains of all ages, but that they could something better their experience by twenty or thirty years practice, in the French & Low-countries wars, where so many honourable services have been so continually performed.  
Or why should any man find fault with soldiers, though they innovate their orders in these days, according to the practice and condition of the time? may it not be done without any prejudice to the grounds and principles left us by the antiquity. The physicians do fetch their direction from Galen, Hypocrates, Pliny, Paraselsus, and such other that have left unto them prescriptions of physic, and from whom our physicians at this present do fetch their greaiest light, but if they should now minister the self same medicines used in those days by these learned Physicians, amongst ten patients if they recovered one, they would kill all the rest.  
Shall we say now, because our physicians do innovate, that they do therefore attribute to themselves greater skill, learning, and science than they would acknowledge in their predecessors.  
Now in martial causes, although the antiquity, who long before either Musket or Caliver were known, armed their people with crossbows, targets, long swords, glaives, partisins, bills, and such other, and according to those sorts of weapons, proportioned their battles, in such sort as they might bring most hands to fight, which was good and necessary for that time, when the service consisted altogether by encounters of Pell Mell, and that they were still brought to handy blows, and had no other use but of manual weapons, but our squadrons being now armed with weapons of greater force, and more advantage, have left their ancient observations to themselves, & have followed an order perfected by time, and bettered by experience, when every captains page is not ignorant that the alteration of weapon doth necessarily enforce the alteration of order.  
For our natural English weapon the long bows, if there be a natural that would persuade better of them, than men of experience do find service in them, I pray God send him more wit, and that is all the harm that I would wish him, and so we will leave them for the service in Finburie fields, to the wonted Regiments of Prince Arthur and the Duke of Shoreditch.  Pill 
Some other accusations wherewith your Low country captains are charged withal, is in the neglect and little care they used even in usual and ordinary causes, for it is not unknown to any man that hath judgement in matters Military, but at the first forming of armies or regiments, there is likewise prescribed laws martial, the which are still notified and made known, to the end, to contain their armies in obedience, and that none might transgress through ignorance: but this your low country captains have still neglected, either upon contempt, or by them not understood, which bewrayeth their malice or want of skill.  
The like neglect they used in the stablishing of their counsels at wars, and in the training and making ready of their soldiers in the practice of their weapons, in the providing for them of powder, shot, munition, victuals, and all other necessaries, when they should march upon any occasion of service.  
These, and many other like matters that are of common course and usual to soldiers that are of the least skill and experience, were by them omitted and forgotten, or at the least nothing at all respected.  Skill 
I warrant you he that first smelled out these accusations, had a tender nose, but if he wanted not a little wit, I am sure he wanted a great deal of understanding, when every soldier, if he be but of one months training, is not ignorant, that where they erect armies, they forget not in like case to erect laws, the which at the first are usually published with the sound of a trumpet, and after hanged up in the market places, either of their camps or garrison towns, but these laws and disciplines are evermore prescribed, by generals and Counsels of armies, and not by every particular captain or Colonel (and yet a Colonel may institute for his own private regiment) but not any laws general, as your accusation would intimate.  
Now the wars of the low countries were aswell supplied with Dutch, French, Walloons, Scots, as English, which were all mercenary, and hirelings are evermore to obey laws, and not to make laws, but serving under the prince of Orange and States, were likewise to receive their laws from whom they received their pay.  
But who was be of our Nation before my lord of Leicester's time that had authority to prescribe laws, more than the French, Walloons, and Scots? what, was it sir john Norris, that noble gentleman of our Nation that had been there a General, but is now dead, and what can I say of him now he is dead, that should not diminish the worth that was in him when he was alive? what shall I praise his birth and honour of his race? the world knows it was noble, but what is that in comparison of his virtues? What then? his experience and knowledge in the field that advanced so many victories? if his friends should not applaud it, his foiled foes would yet confess it: or should I commend his noble and courageous heart, that no misfortune could dismay, nor enemies ever daunt, why Flanders, France, Portugal and Spain can witness this, and his enemies may spite at it, but speak against it they cannot? he is gone, but the honour he hath done to his country by his services will not be forgotten.  
This noble gentleman, so highly renowned for his sernice amongst the whole regiments, of English, of Dutch, of French, of Walloons and of Scots, was especially authorized and employed as General: is there any man now so simple to believe that so great a captain, reputed and well known to be sufficiently able to direct an army against so great an enemy as the Spaniard, was not of like skill to ordain and establish laws to contain his soldiers in order?  
For those other neglects, for not establishing a Counsel at wars, for not practising of soldiers, and not for providing for them munition, victuals, and other necessaries when they should march, if these objections were true, as they are most slanderous and false, yet whom would you blame by these neglects but the Prince of Orange, and the States, the which if any man would take upon him to do, I think all the soldiers of Europe would hiss at him (as well enough they might) for who were so simple as to think that so famous a captain as the prince of Orange, so worthily renowned for the managing of martial causes, were yet so careless or ignorant, as not to prescribe laws, and likewise to provide necessaries, as well as to procure forces.  
Our English therefore are not to be charged with any one of these defects no more than were the Regiments of other Nations, namely the Dutch, the French, the Walloons, and Scots that served with our Nation, all in one predicament, and received altogether their laws from whom they received their pages: and these ignorant ill willers, that would spy out these faults, only to deprave the English, are not much unlike the old servant that sometimes follows king Henry the eight, who used evermore to strike him that stood next unto him.  Pill 
There be some other obiectious against your Low country captains for shameful misdemeanours to their poor soldiers, some for sending their companies into dangerous attempts, better hoping of their dead pays, then of any service they could perform.  
Some other upon hatred and displeasure borne to their followers, would devise desperate enterprises, of purpose to be revenged.  
Others again, when they had receined their soldiers pay, would likewise send them to the slaughter, that they might keep their pays in their own purses.  Skill 
Me thinks you should tell me of some other of our captains, that conspired and practised with the Spaniard against the Prince and States that gave them pay, and yet sought to betray them in all their enterprises and services, and sometimes would surrender unto the enemies, towns and forts which the Prince had committed to their guard and placed them there in garrison.  Pill 
Captain Skill, for these matters that I have already delivered unto you, and many other, that I have yet to speak of, all of them concerning the misdemeanours of our captains sometimes toward their soldiers, sometimes towards the country people that gave them pay, and in whose defence they came to fight, and although that in this nature thus alleged, there be many shameful abuses wherewith they have been charged, yet to my remembrance, I never heard of any mention made of treasons, or traitorous surrendering up of towns to the spaniards, as you have now mentioned, I would be loath to do them so much wrong as to charge them with those matters, that I never heard to be enforced against them.  Skill 
And yet I can assure you, that these matters which you say you never heard of, were very true, and there were divers of our English Nation that dealt most traitorously with the Prince, which did both conspire and surrender up towns to the enemy: and what is the matter that these collections of treason were not as well gathered in the disgrace of our Low country captains, being true, as the other which you have here enforced, being false, and some of them matters of impossibility, as those very last objections by you alleged (which every soldiers boy could control) as hereafter I will make more evidently to appear, even to him that hath but half a sense? But first of all let any man of understanding considder with himself from whence these accusations against our French and Low country captain should proceed, they are charged with many shameful abuses, the most of them untrue, the rest not worth the speaking of, and for some other that were odious and hateful indeed, namely, treason, treachery, confederacy, and conspiring with the Spaniard (and all of them apparent, and not to be gainsaid) these matters were never spoken of: nay these were no faults at all, but of my conscience were rather esteemed to be works of supererogation, meritorious matters, and as good a ladder to scale heaven withal, as a Bull of Scala coeli purchased from the Pope.  
Who seethe not now by whom these accusations have been collected? it is well enough to be perceived, that they have only their proceeding, but from old papistical enmity, that hath evermore been busied in defacing, disgracing, and detracting those French and netherlands services, and never sparing to backebile those that have endeavoured themselves in defence of the gospel against their Pope: but the contrary part evermore faultless though they performed nothing, but by treason, deceit, forgery, and all manner of villainy.  
It is yet within the compass of our own memories, and hundreds of thousands are now living that do well enough remember the very maidenhead of these wars, when they were first undertaken, both in France and Flaunders, yea and in Scotland too, about matters of religion: how long they were in arms and in civil broils among themselves, whilst we lived here in England, by a most gracious government in the calm of quiet peace: we heard of wars round about us, but with us we had none but at Westminster hall. Yet alarms were sometimes hot amongst lovers, when their Ladies were disposed a little to be froward, our warlike instruments were laid aside, and almost out of use, our shrill trumpets for the field, were turned to still music for the chamber, our drums to tabrets, our martial exercises to may games: this sweet and quiet peace brought with it a careless security, our gallant youths forgot to bestride the stirring steeds, and walked up and down with feathered fans in their hands, masks to cover their faces, and tawdry laces about their necks, they became effeminate in all their demeanours, disguising themselves like demi-harlots. Our happiness was envied by our neighbours that did invirone us, but what could they do to disturb our quiet? it was the Lord of Hosts that protected our Elizabeth: and in the midst of this our delicacy when the wars were in their greatest heat on every side about us, and their armies supplied by the most haughty hearts out of all the parts of Europe, some of our English bloods, no less thirsty of honour, than he that is most covetous for pelf, shaking off that nicety which the time had them fostered, thrust themselves into these services. Amongst the rest, our noble sir john Norris became a precedent to his countrymen, a pattern for them to imitate, a lamp to give them light, a lodestar to direct them in that course, that leadeth unto hanour and so to endless fame: his example gave heart & courage to many others that followed him, they served in defence of the Gospel, they attained by their service to that perfection of martial knowledge, that they are thereby enabled to serve their prince and country against all foes domestical or foreign.  
How they bore themselves in those services against the pride of the Spaniards, what honourable victories they obtained against the greatest and most experimented Captains that christendom could afford, what overthrows they gave unto them, and how many notable exploits they performed against them, the world I am sure can witness, and the matters are yet so fresh in memory, that Spite may well fret himself to the gall, but to deprive them of their honour it can not, and therefore they are driven to these threedbare shifts, to slander them with misdemeanour towards their soldiers, to accuse them with the breach of discipline, the neglect of laws, with such a number of other trifles as would require a volume to express: and by this they would persuade, that such soldiers as had been trained in such licentious and tumultuary wars were never after to be employed in any reformed services: and then if her Majesty should have any occasion to use soldiers, where should she seek for conductor that were of sufficiency? Disgrace those that have had the practice and especial training in France or Flaunders, and how many are there left? or where should we seek for them, unless at your eighteen penny Academs, where you tell me you have such reading of Martial Lectures?  
But I would not wish we should hazard a days service to make trial of the fortune and unknown experience of these Academical Captains: for the others they have been sufficiently tried, and therefore are the better to be trusted. But notwithstanding, these disgraces that they would offer to our French and Low-countries services, I cannot think that any Captain, Gentleman, or soldier whatsoever he be, that hath been trained up in those services (so maliciously reported on) do think the worse of their own skill or ability, because envy coupled with ignorance, hath sought to disable them: Dixit insipiens cannot dismay them, nor make them to think so evil of themselves, but that they will be always ready to defend their credits, against any one that will seek to disgrace them. Leaving other circumstances, and to make a short conclusion for all together, I do not think how that honourable Earl (that is the glory of this age for martial matters) doth any whit at all mislike his own worthiness, because he hath voluntarily opposed himself in those French and Low-countries: but howsoever it pleaseth him to think of himself, let us acknowledge him to be as he is, his country's comfort, our England's Champion, whom Honour & Virtue have stirred up and pricked forward, but in the very April of his age, that he might become the guard to his Prince, the refuge of his Country, and the bulwark and castle of defence to them both. And now Captain Pill that it might appear to any man of reasonable judgement, how unlikely those accusations are to be true which you have hitherto alleged, let us but examine your three last objections.  
Some Captains (you say) would send their Soldiers into dangerous attempts, rather hoping after their dead pays, then expecting any service they could perform.  
Othersome upon displeasure were sent to the like enterprises: and a third some, when they had received they: Soldiers pays, would send them to the slaughter, because they would keep all in their own purses.  
What malicious reports be these? and yet not possible to be true, and I think (as I have said before) that every soldiers boy doth know it is death by the laws of arms, for any Captain to enterprise any attempt, without direction from the General or Council at wars: perhaps some will say it is truth, where the disciplines of wars are truly observed, but the exceptions that are taken against those country services, doth only proceed upon that neglect, because there was neither discipline nor order regarded: but let us therefore a little look into their actions, and let any man that hath judgement but consider of the proceedings, it will appear that a poor Prince assisted with a few states men, and should continue wars so many years together as they did against the King of Spain, the Monarch of Christendom, for dominions, for money, for wealth, for expert and trained Soldiers, for great and notable Captains and commanders raked together out of Spain, Italy, Germany, Burgundy, Wallone, Albany, yea, from all the parts of Europe, with the best Counsellors of wars, Engineers of all sorts, and for all purposes, the best experimented that Christendom could afford, or money procure, the which he consumed there in large and huge sums (as the world can witness) and yet two small provinces Holland and Seland, a little corner heaped next the sea, environed about with enemies on every side, overmatched with numbers, what was it then that preserved them but their very order and discipline, the which if it had been so neglected, that every man might have devised and attempted what himself listed, their wars would quickly have had an end, and the King again possessed of the country? it cannot therefore be gainsaid, but that next under God, their greatest defence was their order and discipline, prescribed and set down by the Prince of Orange, (who was not to seek in those directions) and as by this I might well conclude, that they neither wanted discipline nor conduct, yet thus much I dare further avouch, and I do confidently affirm it of mine own knowledge, that the breach of discipline in those Low-countries services, were evermore punished with as great severity, as in any wars that hath been undertaken in our age, in what place or country soever.  
We may therefore conclude, that they wanted a great deal of matter, that were driven to pick out so manifest untruths to slander those actions, and as much as in them did lie, to disgrace the actors.  Pill 
I perceive Captain Skill the first tale is never good, till the second be heard: you have very reasonably (in my opinion) discharged these accusations, but yet those that have been the first reporters of them, have delivered them for such undoubted truths, and under the pretence of such Martial skill, that there be many thousands in England that do retain them, and will hardly be dissuaded to a contrary. And seeing I have begun to rip up your abuses, I will yet continue to tell you what I have heard, ill favoured matters they be as they have enforced them against you, and therefore it would be much available to your reputations, if they could be sufficiently excused.  Skill 
It is no great matter (Captain Pill) what every Goosecap doth conceive in these matters against us, he that would satisfy all, shall satisfy none: my desire is only to satisfy the wise, and for any thing that you have hitherto alleged, I think a scoff were more fit than an answer. But you say you have more behind, you were best to empty your stomach, for it is but draff, and therefore out with al.  Pill 
Your Low-countrieses Captains are accused for being too prodigal of their soldiers lives, for where it is evermore a custom amongst Captains that are of skill or judgement, upon the assault of any place fortified, to make their approaches with trenches, cross trenches, gabions, and other inventions as the ground will admit for the saving of their Soldiers lives, and never to make any attempt, until by battery they have made a sufficient breach, and have displaced the flankers, and other artillery of the enemies that might be noisome or dangerous: but these despisers of all discipline Military, have been so careless of their Soldiers, that neglecting these principles, they have sent them as it were to the butchery, to give assaults to Castles, Sconces, and other such fortifications, without either regard or consideration of any of these promises before spoken of.  Skill 
I warrant you captain Pill he that comes in with all these tricks for the surprising of fortifications, hath heard much reading at your London Accadems, and I believe can better direct how to assault the Castle in Newfishstréete, then to instruct them that have had any continuance in the Low country services, which doth rather consist in assaulting and defending fortifications, more than in any other encounters in the field, and therefore he that serveth there, is not to learn how to give assaults.  
For the surprising of any City, Town, Castle, Fort, Sconce, or whatsoever other place fortified, it is to be done by composition, by famine, by mining, or by assault.  
Composition is first embraced by all good Captains, for that is done without the spilling of blood on either side.  
To win by famine is used of policy, for the safety of his people that doth besiege, but many times enforced by constraint, when the situation of the place admitteth of no other forcible mean.  
Mining is especially preferred, as well for expedition, as the lightness of the charge, if the ground will permit.  
Assault is the last refuge, and cannot be used upon any plot that is well fortified without battery, yet in some other places not thoroughly holpen by nature, nor fully supplied by Art are saultable enough with ladders and other provision commonly used, before great Ordnance was invented: and in the Low-countreyes we had many earth works, commonly called sconces, some of greater, and some of less importance, builded usually upon straits or passages, and fortified accordingly as was behoveful for the place: and where any one of them were found noisome or prejudicial for service intended, there was likewise used such force and mean for the taking of them in, as the situation, or strength or force of the place required: and I have known divers of those Sconces have been taken by scale without any artillery, and yet without the loss of any one of the assailants: and what and if at some other time we have lost men by assaults? it is not possible but if the defendants will do their endeavour as they ought, that assailants can enter without some loss of men, no not when there is made breaches most easy to be assaulted, and therefore he that could find this fault, I warrant you had good ability to find fault at any thing.  Pill 
Your Captains are yet once again accused of flat cozenage towards their Soldiers, who to defeat them of their pays, gave them allowance of bread and cheese, and other victual of the basest sort, which they call by the name of Provand, a strange name, and as strange a devise to cousin the poor men of their money, & in steed thereof to give them provand, a matter never heard on before, as it is reported by men of great experience, some of them yet living, that do wonder at the invention, and do very bitterly reprove those that were the first inventors.  Skill 
Is bread and cheese become so contemptible, that it is reputed amongst the basest kind of victual, O shameful slander to Essex, where so many good Chéeses are daily created, and no less indignity to Wales, where a piece of roasted cheese is meat for a Monarch: but for those that will accuse our Captains of cozenage towards their soldiers, because they gave allowance of Provand, if there be but as much Martial knowledge in any of them, as there is good meat but in the paring of an Essex cheese, I will be contented to be tried by all the captains pages that ever have but seen an army to march about any expedition, and if they shall find me guilty, I am contented to suffer the most unhappy death that ever any man did yet endure, (and that I think were to be pecked to death with Capons.)  
The name of Provand you say is strange, and the devise used by our Captains no less strange, to cousin their soldiers under the pretence of giving them Provand to keep away their pays. For my life they that do so much admire the name, do think that the word Provand was first derived from an Osterie, for there the Ostler doth keep his provender and gives it out again from thence by measure, and many of these Ostlers if they be not well looked unto, will cousin a man's horse mightily in their Provender, and this is the cause that they suspect Captains of the like cousinage towards their Soldiers in their Provand: and I remember a fellow that once brought his master a reckoning of riding charges, and amongst many Items put down in his bill, one was Item for a pennyworth of horse bread two pence. His master began to chafe at the reckoning, and desired his man to make a better exposition of that part of the text, the fellow making a low courtesy down to the ground, answered, forsooth sir I drank a pot of Bear whilst my horse was eating of his bread: now if there were any Captain that used the like deceit, to drink a can of Rhenish wine whilst his soldiers were eating of their provand, and after would put it down upon his Soldiers accounts, than here comes in the cousinage, for otherwise, what commodity for a Captain to have his Soldiers to be paid in provand? if there be any gains to be made, it falls out to them that do provide and deliver it, which is not the Captain, and therefore to his himderance, for if he would make a profit of his company, he should do it much rather with receiving of ready money, then in receiving of his soldiers pays in Provand.  
And for those that will affirm that the delivering of Provand was a matter never heard on before, but invented only by our Low-countries Captains, let them pretend as much Martial knowledge as they list, but I think they could not devise to lay open their ignorance more apparently, than not to know that Soldiers must of necessity be victualled upon many occasions, how well soever they be otherwise paid.  
One example that is familiar unto us I think may well suffice: her majesty hath services in Ireland, and in many parts of that country, if she should pay her soldiers with ready money, and not make provision of victuals for them, where otherwise they can come by none, they might quickly famish with their money in their purses.  
This necessity therefore hath evermore been carefully provided for, and the fault finders that up think it so strange a matter, that soldiers should sometime receive their pay in victuals, no doubt their service hath been in plentiful places, where they might either go to ordinaries, or send to the cooks for their dinner: yet I am not ignorant that vittailers will sometimes follow a camp, but not at all times, nor yet in all places: and this Provand that is here so much wondered at, was no other but as her majesty provided for her Garrisons in Barwick, and as all other Princes in Europe do and have done, wheresoever they have held or do hold Garrisons of soldiers: and these provisions are not commonly made of Pheasants, Partridge, Quails, Capons and other like dainties, but usually of Cheese, Butter, Bacon, Saltfish, and such other victual as shall need no great cookery, nor be long in making ready, especially upon any expedition of service.  
Those therefore that would persuade this victualling of Soldiers to be a matter never heard on before, but invented by our low-country Captains, for their own profit and commodity, they have herein showed themselves to be most simple and ignorant, and but in ordinary matters appertaining to the wars.  Pill 
Captaineskill, if I should prosecute these occasions accordingly as I have heard them enforced against your French and Low-countrieses Captains, I might yet infer a hundred other objections, and all of them very bitter and disgraceful unto them: but I see your answers are such as it rather falleth out to their disgraces that were your accusers, then by any means reproachful unto you that were accused: I will therefore omit to speak any further in these particular cavils, and will come to a matter of greater importance, being a general il, the which if it be true, as the reporter doth confidently protest, it may concern no less than our utter wrack and ruin, and doth threaten in the end the destruction of our English nation.  Skill 
Marry Captain Pill, he that could spy me out that infirmity, were worthy to have a physicians fee, but he that could prescribe a medicine for the malady, were worthy to be esteemed the Ascalaphus of his country.  Pill 
The sickness is known, and the cause from whence proceeding is likewise gathered, by those that are of great account for their experience and skill, it is found to proceed from a vehement hot humour, abounding in your Low-countries captains, who under the pretence of the excellency of your weapons of fire (your Musket and Caliver) would thereby bring in carousing and drunkenness, to the abolishing and utter subverting of our artillery, and the use of our longbows, the ancient and natural weapon of our country, by the means whereof we have triumphed in many notable victories from time to time, and age to age, the which weapon if we should now neglect, (as our Low-countries captains do altogether endeavour) this Noble Realm of England so famed and renowned by the service of our artillery, should now be left to the spoil, and remain but as a prey, fit for every enemy that would attempt or assail us.  Skill 
Without doubt he that was the first finder out of this disease, had as great knowledge & skill as the physician, who would needs persuade his patient that he had taken a surfeit by eating of a horse, because he saw a saddle lie under the sick-man's bed. But in goodfellowshippe captain Pill, tell me true, is this an objection against our low-country captains, that under the pretence of the weapons of fire, they would bring in carousing and drunkenness, by means whereof (you say) they would suppress the exercise of the long how, & whereby our country should he left a sit prey to every enemy that would attempt us.  Pill 
Captain Skill, what I have received, that I have delivered, I have told you the true circumstance of that I have heard reported, if I have failed in the manner, I am not mistaken in the matter, if perhaps I have something miss of the words, yet I am sure I have not erred in the sense.  Skill 
Why now I know what the reason is why cooks will never be without a jack of beer in the kitchen, and what is it that makes Smiths to be so local, that if you miss them at the forge, you shall be sure to find them in the alehouse, they have to deal with a thirsty element, the element of fire, that brings in this carousing & drunkenness, that again expels the use of the longbow, the neglect whereof threateneth England's overthrow.  
So now how these matters are depending the one of the other, tied together with a packthréed, and I will show you a simile how it may come to pass, an ancient collection to prove by like circumstance that drinking may bring a man to heaven: and thus saith the text: He that drinks well, sleeps well, He that sleeps well thinks no harm. He that thinks no harm sinneth not, and he that sinneth not goes to heaven: here is now the conclusion, and he that can chop me up such Logic, I hope may bear the bell for a Logician: let him go where he list.  
Now for your water-casting wizards, that in the deepness of their experience (as you say) have looked into England's estate, and do think that the neglect of the long bow may breed such a surfeit as you speak of. God be thanked the sickness is nothing so dangerous, as the silly ignorant sort would persuade it, the nature of the disease hath been examined, and carefully considered of by men that are no less renowned for their wisedme & experience, then honoured for the love & zeal they bear to their country, they have found the first to be a matter of no importance, but rather thought it behooveful and necessary for us to enure ourselves to that diet, which all the nations of the world beside do especially account of, and have retained as a restorative to their better safety, which being by us neglected, might be such a preparative for an enemy to take advantage by, as your Physicians could never be able to restore, not with all the medicines they could compound, either of their crossbows or long bows.  
A fool scratch him then say I that would give us such purgations, or under the pretence of a Cullis whereby to comfort us, would give us indeed a potion that would undoubtedly poison us.  
What should I say more than to these calculating companions, that are so narrow eyed to look into common wealth causes, that they think the country's good is evermore neglected, where their own foolish prescriptions are not always observed.  
Let such vain prognosticators fable what they list, God hath blessed England, he hath plentifully poured his blessings upon us: first, in our most gracious Elizabeth, whom he hath established, and holden up in despite of all Popish practices, he hath delivered her when she hath been compassed with many dangers, whereby he hath showed his mercy to us her people, whom she hath still governed in happy peace and prosperity. He hath given her the assistance of a most grave and discreet counsel, amongst the rest Burghley by name, the man admired through christendom, whose watchful eyes to prevent ensuing mischiefs, have evermore been vigilant, whose wisdom next under God and her Majesty hath been the best conserver of our quiet, and happy peace, whose experience in commonwealth causes, is singular to himself. And for the action of war. O noble earl of Essex, how is England blessed in thee? thou hast honoured thy country with thy victories obtained, enriched it with the spoils of thine enemies, freed it from the force of foes that were ready to assail it, whom thou hast dismayed and daunted at their own doors.  
If I should now speak of domestical matters, for the execution of law and justice here at home, according to equity, right, and conscience, England may think itself happy, and the Court of Chancery hath as great cause to glory, where Egerton adorneth the bench.  
Thus you may perceive (captain Pill) that England is in no such distress as your dreaming dizzards would persuade, they threaten us to be almost at death's door, when there is no manner of sign nor show of sickness, you see who they be, captain Pill, that are England's watchmen, and have so consecrated themselves to the good of the commonwealth, that what perils may pass which shall not be by them discerned, and what foreign practices or domestical disorders can be so plotted out, which shall not be by them both foreseen and prevented, if it do either concern the good or ill of our country.  Pill 
Captain Skill, me thinks you have been too compendious and brief in the subject that you have now undertaken, a breath of wind is not enough to comprehend their praises, that would ask a longer discourse than all that hath been hitherto debated between us: but will not your words be taken in ill part? for there be many honourable personages in England, that without doubt are faithful and firm both to their princes and country, that perhaps will hang the lip, and think themselves to be greatly wronged, that any one should be so particularly preferred before them, especially for those causes.  Skill 
I hope the praise of one is no dispraise to another, neither am I ignorant, but am undoubtedly persuaded, that there be many, as well of the nobility, as other of the inferior sort and calling, that are of equal desire, though not of equal ability: I commend him that can follow the wise advise of others, but I prefer him that can foresee perils that are to come, and is able to discern of things needful and requisite. My conclusion is, I honour all that are worthy of honour, but I say again (and without offence to any I hope I may boldly avouch it) these that I have named are the ornaments of England, the Ministers of God next under her Majesty, by whom England is made happy, the one famous for his counsel, the second renowned for his magnanimity, the third reverenced for his justice, and all of them honoured for the care they have of their country's good, three notable pillars of our commonwealth, to whom I may add a fourth, the noble Lord of Hunsdon, who for his fidelity to his prince, matched with equal love to his country, together with the magnificence and nobleness of his mind, may march in equal rank with those that are most highly honoured, and for their virtue most worthily renowned.  
You see now (captain Pill) that England is not so negligently provided too, that it should run into such unexperted danger as your squint eyed Diviners would pretend to foresee, but let them dream and make what doubts they list, they are to be suspected of some defects that do seem to be so fearful of the moonshine in the water.  Pill 
But captain Skill, you deal somewhat too roundly in this matter, I would wish that you could more advisedly consider of my speeches, the matter objected is against your Low country Captains, who under the pretence of the excellency of the weapons of fire, would bring in carousing and drunkenness, and thereby would utterly suppress and abolish, our longbowes, & archery of England. From hence issueth this danger to our country, that being bereaved of this weapon which our predecessors have ever found so available, and of so great advantage against their enemies, we should thereby so weaken and disable ourselves, against any that would invade us, that we should rather be left to the spoil, than be able to make defence: and although that those noble patrons of our country which you have named, are sufficiently able to discern of perils (as I do acknowledge their virtue to be far exceeding the commendation you have delivered, so there is no doubt but that they in their wisdoms can well enough consider how this neglect of ours may threaten greater danger and turn to a worse consequence than you do conceive of, when it is avouched by them of known experience, and the reasons fortified by many precedents of great antiquity drawn from Alexandria in Egypt, from Constantinople in Greece, and from many other countries and kingdoms: beside, it is proved by many examples, what notable conquests, have been obtained by the use of bows, and how many nations, kingdoms, and common wealths have been subverted, surprised, and brought into servitude, where they have neglected that notable weapon, and set it aside.  Skill 
If our Low country Captains do pretend such excellency in the weapons of fire, they do it by good authority, having had sufficient trial of the effects, but how these weapons should bring that carousing and drunkenness you do speak of, I protest it passeth my conceit how it may hang together.  
For drunkenness I do pronounce it to be a most detestable vice, beastly and hateful in the opinion of any man, that is worthy the reputation of a man, and I have known some of our Low country Captains, that have been shameless when they were drunk, but they have blushed again when they were sober, but he that delighteth in that vice, is a fit companion for swine, then worthy to associate men.  
And is it our Low country captains that have brought in the exercise of carousing and drunkenness, I wonder at them that could travel so far countries, to fetch so many precedents, for the antiquity of bows, and could not have brought one precedent with them, for the antiquity of drunkenness, if it were but how Alexander killed his Clitus?  
And for carousing it was new christened in England from a carouse to a hearty draft, I think before the most of our Low country Captains were borne.  
Now for this neglect of the long bow which is thought to be a matter of such danger, and such a weakening to our country, we may commend them a little for their care that do so fear it, but never a whit for their experience that would persuade it, and least of all for their wit that would believe it. For the presidents that have been so transported from those far countries in the behalf of the long bow, they are all as pat for the purpose (that should be proved by them) as he that alleged that Tenterden steeple was the cause of Goodwin sands.  Pill 
If you will deny precedents because they are far fetched, that do make good in the behalf of the bow, we will bring you some nearer home, and I hope you will not deny our own histories & chronicles, that do concern our own actions, some of them within the compass of men's memories yet living, how many testimonies are there recorded in the behalf of our archery, what services they have performed what conquests they have achieved, & what victories they have obtained, I shall not need to relate them in particular; they are so apparent to every reader, that I hope you will not do yourself that wrong to gainsay them.  Skill 
And with what discretion can you or any one for you allege them? you bring us out precedents, what services have been performed by our archery in times past, but where was then that celleritie and readiness in the weapons of fire that is now practised? you tell me of conquests performed, and victories obtained, but it was in diebus illis, when neither musket nor caliver were known nor heard of.  
I confess the bow hath been a weapon of great effect in service, but the case is altered, every thing hath his time, and I could wish with all my heart, that our archery of England were but by the one half so effectual, as ignorant men will dream of.  Pill 
That the bow is more effectual than you do esteem it, is to be proved by such forcible reasons, as your low co●…try captains are not able to resist, let us but seek the testimonies of the holy scriptures, and we shall find what account the prophet David made of that weapon after the overthrow & death of king Saul, besides in one of his Psalms he calleth them, A mighty power, and in another place, The vessels of death.  
Another of the prophets sent from the almighty to terrify the people for their sins, speakng in the person of GOD saith, That he had bend his bow, and made ready his quiver. Many other places might be inferred to confirm the fury and force of that weapon, if men were not overmuch given to infidelity and misbelèefe.  Skill 
If the Prophet David had slain Goliath with an arrow out of a bow, as he killed him with a stone out of a sling, I perceive there would have been some great hold taken of the matter, for the credit of bows, but if he had killed him with a bow, must it therefore be granted that bows did excel all other weapons? Samson killed a great number of the Philistines with the jawbone of an Ass, yet if I should fight I would not trust to that weapon, if I might have mine own choice.  
And because it is said by the prophet, that he had bend his bow, doth that therefore conclude the bow to be most excellent of all other weapons? This logic is much like unto his, that affirmed men to be more godly than women, his reason was, because there is a town in Surty that is called Godlimen, but there is never a town in England that is called Godlywomen, ergo men are more godly than women. And because God hath said, I have bend my bow, and never makes mention that he had charged his musket, Ergo the bow is better than the musket. And I remember another place where it is written, He had whetted his sword, but it is not said that he had made sharp his brown bill, & therefore the sword is a better weapon than a brown bill: But captain Pill, let us leave this logic, for it is twenty to one if ever it be known, the school boys will laugh at us.  Pill. 
Let them laugh (captain Skill) at your error that do attribute such commendations to your musket and caliver, that thereby you would condemn and suppress all other weapons of far greater excellency and use, but if you will needs give such principality to your weapons of fire, it is neither your musket nor caliver that are so singular, but as it is resolved by captains of great skill and knowledge, the harquebus is to be preferred before them both, and that for many considerations by them alleged.  Skill 
And what might be the considerations that your great captains have so preferred the harquebus?  Pill 
For that the Harquebuz is more maniable in a skirmish, and a great deal more light to make a hasty retreat, where your Musketeers in such actions through the weight of their pieces, are driven to throw them quite away and to trust altogether to their heels.  Skill 
Then I perceive the error of our Low-countrieses captains is, because they would arm their people in such sort as they might be able to put the enemy to a retreat, but your great captains clean contrary would have them so appointed as they might be light and nimble to run away themselves: and he that should bring his men but furnished with paltry harquebus to encounter the musket and caliver were fit indeed to run away from an enemy that would offer to assail him, than be able to tarry by him in the field.  Pill 
And all the reason you can make, is, because of the far shooting, and it is not denied, but that your musket well charged with good powder, would carry a full bullet 24. or 30. scores: but yet that any of them should give their volies above ten, twenty, or thirty pieces at the uttermost, is accounted but a mere mockery.  Skill 
And if the far shooting be of no advantage, why then there is no odds between a bodkin and a pike, but in truth one of the most especial causes that muskets are so much regarded, is because they may be brought 24. and 30. scores off to beat upon squadrons either of horsemen or footmen, to break and dismember them: and in like manner to beat passages or grounds of advantage taken by the enemy, or for many other services, either assailing or defending as well in the field, town, trench, or where, or howsoever, the musket is still found to be a weapon of wonderful advantage, and only by the far shooting: but for those that do no better value of the musket, but to give their volies at ten, twenty, or thirty paces: it should seem they knew of no other service in the field, but when enemies do meet, they will straight draw their squadrons to an encounter, which showeth their little understanding, for when such meetings do happen, captains that be of experience are accustomed to place the stand of pikes (wherein consisteth their strength) upon some ground of advantage, and as near as they can will bring some hedge, some ditch, some shrubs or bushes, or some other like helps, between them and the enemy, because they would not lie open to the musket shot, that the other will then thrust out, (if they can be suffered) to play upon these squadrons or armed men 24. and 30. scores off. Loole shot being thus shaken off, opportunities and advantages are watched on both sides, as well by horsemen as footmen to take their times and occasions, their squadrons standing still a good distance the one from the other, with wings, fillets, and troops of shot, to give those volies at hand (that you speak of) if they should be charged, and many times it falleth out, that squadrons be broken and put to a retreat, by advantages taken and procured by these skirmishes, but especially being galled and beaten by the fury of shot a far off, when the squadron of the contrary part hath not so much as appeared in sight: those weapons therefore are most to be valued that will do his execution farthest off, and if it were possible to devise a weapon that would annoy and spoil an enemy in distance as far as three muskets, such a weapon were three times more available for services at longth, and ten times more profitable for such exploits, than once to give volies so near at hand, to be delivered within that distance of ten, twenty, or thirty paces as you speak of.  
And yet for those services when occasion shall require, what weapon more terrible than the musket, that within twenty, thirty, forty, or a hundred paces, will deliver four or five caliver shot at one discharge, to the wonderful spoil of such as will approach them: and for this occasion the fillets and wings of battles and squadrons, are compounded of those weapons to give their volies if they should be charged: and this is the cause that the Spaniard finding this weapon to be of so great importance for all manner of services, hath converted the greatest part of his shot into musketires: and this is the cause that such of our Nation as have served against them, may the better speak of that weapon by experience what themselves have found.  
For others that have but gathered their precedents from tabling houses or otherordinaries, may better speak according to their knowledge then according to the matter. And who be those that will evermore contend against that weapon, but such as have not seen their effect and service in the field, but enforceth against them their hundred year old exampls, before shot was ever perfected, or in manner known.  Pill 
Thus I do see we English men are very sharp witted to make reasons against ourselves, and Lord how ready we be to change a certainty for an uncertainty. But will you so disable our bows, that you will allow them no place in the field? I hope against horsemen you will do them some favour, for to spoil and gall horses, what weapon of more effect, or who will deny them that right?  Skill 
But how shall we bring them to that place of service where they may do this annoyance to horsemen? it is not to be devied but that Archers would perform great service against horsemen: if they might be brought to the place where they might serve, but as they must be fortified, either with hedge, ditch, or other artificial means that horsemen may not charge them, so the place from whence they may do their execution, must be open and plain, where whilst they draw their bows, their bodies must remain in open view. Now what enemy of judgement would suffer them to keep such a ground, but that with three or four hundred musketeers they would displace two thousand Archers, and without any manner of danger to themselves, by reason of their far shooting, so that he might be counted a very weak witted enemy that would suffer us to bring our bows where they might perform any exploit either against horsemen or footmen, but contrariwise for the musket and the caliver every hedge, every ditch, and every thicket, which almost every ground affordeth, is such an advantage for them, that they will not be displaced, but with great danger and loss of the assailants, where they have once planted and settled themselves.  
Again, they can serve out of every bush, and from behind every tree undiscerned or seen by those that shall serve against them, whereas the Archer must stand in open show, and make himself an open mark to his enemy, or otherwise he cannot serve at all.  Pill 
Why then belike all the advantage that your shot hath, is to hide themselves. But let me ask you a question: if a thousand of your shot, and a thousand of well chosen Archers were together in the plain field; which part would you there take if you might have your own choice?  Skill 
But in what field do you mean (Captain Pill) let me first know that?  Pill 
And what a question is that to be asked, if it be in a field where there is no advantage of covert for your shot to hide themselves in, I take no other exceptions to any field.  Skill 
Marry sir but I do, and your question may be full of subtlety, for I remember there was one that should have been begged for an Idiot, and such a question was asked of him, how many legs a sheep had, he asked again whether they meant a sheep as he went to the butchers, or as he came from the butchers? why, what difference make you in that (said the demander?) great difference sir (answered the other) for a sheep going to the butchers hath four legs, but coming from the butchers, hath but two legs and two shoulders. And your question may have the like fallacy, for you ask me if a thousand shot and a thousand Archers were in the field, whose part I would take, now if you mean in Finsbury field, as they are there with the Duke of Shoreditch, and Prince Arthur, I would then take part with the Archers, for than I were sure I should never catch harm with a bullet, and I should have good cheer, during the time of our service: but if it were in the field where they should serve for their lives the one against the other, if I should then say I would take part with the Archers, I am afraid, Captain Pill, that you would beg me for an Idiot.  Pill 
And I do know them again that do think their experience as good as yours, or as any that shall say to the contrary, that dare undertake with one thousand of choice Archers, to encounter with two thousand of the best shot you can bring into the field.  Skill 
I would some of those undertakers would undertake to build up Paul's steeple, for me thinks they should adventure to undertake any thing.  Pill 
they dare adventure to undertake this, and so to discomfit your shot, that they shall not dare to show their faces in the field, or else they will lose their lives, or will wager for the performance all that ever they have in the world.  Skill 
Nay if they go to wagering, I on the contrary part will play them fair play, for I will lay them Cockpit-ods that they shall not do it.  Pill 
Sir I dare undertake you shall be taken up, but what is that you call Cockpit-oddes?  Skill 
Cockpit-oddes is lightly two to one, and he that will undertake to make good your challenge, I will lay both my pantofles to his wit.  Pill 
It should seem Captain Skill) you are driven to a bare board, that are feign to shift out your matters with such unsavoury jests.  Skill 
I hope they smell as sweet as the challenges you do make, of one thousand Archers against two thousand of our best shot.  Pill 
I tell you again, there be thousands of that opinion, and do think that an Archer hand to hand, is by great odds too hard for any shot you are able to turn against him.  Skill 
I tell you again they are in a wrong opinion, and I account him a very insufficient shot that dare not undertake any Archer that ever I heard on; unless it be one.  Pill 
It is happy you will confess one Archer of such sufficiency, but I pray you who may that one Archer be that you stand so much in doubt of?  Skill 
Marry sir it is Cupid, he that never shoots but he doth some mischief (they say) and therefore there is no dealing with him, and I would never wish my friends to meddle with him.  Pill 
I perceive these jests will never be left off, but they are your best helps, and therefore to be borne withal.  Skill 
I must commend you (Captain Pill) for your modesty, but you are deceived, I use no such helps for want of matter, but I have learned that frivolous questions are fittest to be answered with a jest, or not to be answered at all, and those comparisons that you have made of your Archers with our Musket and caliver, are so far from all reason and judgement, that they are to be laughed at by any man that hath either reason or judgement, or any manner of spark of experience in him.  Pill 
If this be enough that because captain Skill hath thus affirmed, therefore it is true, there shall need no further answer, but if you will truly discern of these doubts, let us examine what may be the defects as well of your weapons of fire, as of our archers, or what casualties may fall out that may hinder their services: by this you shall perceive which weapon is of greatest effect, and likeliest to do service.  
Then first for your Caliver and Musket: there be many accidents that may happen through the default of such soldiers as shall use them, for beside they may neglect to keep their pieces in serviceable sort, so in the very instant of their service they may fail in their sight, as commonly with too much haste they are accustomed to do, whereby they never shoot greatly to endanger: again their bullets being too low, may fly uncertain, in continuance their pieces may wax hot, there may be fault in their powder, there may be fault in their match, there may be fault in their charging, there may be many other faults and casualties, that are incident to shot, and all of them an impeachment to the service: but for Archers, what is there more than the breaking of the bow, or the breaking of the string, that may be any impediment to them? and this is a very seldom casualty, and may be prevented with a matter of nothing, for a little wax, rosine, and tallow tempered over a fire, and chafed in with a  cloth, preserveth the bow: & for the string, if it be made of good hemp, water, glue, and strongly whipped with silk or fine thread, it will not fail in a long continuance: the Archer therefore being least subject to mischances, is of greatest importance, and readiness for service.  Skill 
But captain Pill, this argues you to be a very partial physician, that would not likewise find out some medicines for shot when you have found so many infirmities depending upon them, but have left them to all their diseases, as though they were incurable: but if I would deal as narrowly with your archers, as you have done with our shot, I could pick out more casualties than the breaking of a bow or a bow string, for it might be they might lose their shooting gloves, and then they could not shoot for hurting of their fingers. Again, they might have sore elbows, and then they could not draw their bows: but especially they are to take heed when they shoot, that they shoot not the feathered end of their arrows forwards, for than they will never flee right.  Pill 
What gauds be these you do still addict yourself unto? iwis it would be more for the credit of your cause, to answer with more discretion, these frumps are to little purpose, but rather to the discredit of that you would feignest maintain.  Skill 
Captain Pill, I do deal more discreetly with you then I perceive you can conceive of: for you know it is fair play in every tennis court to toss you back again your own balls, that yourself have first served to the house: and because you speak of gauds, what gauds be these that you have inferred against shot? that they may neglect their sights, that their bullets may be too low, that there may be fault in their powder, that there may be fault in their match, that there may be fault in their charging: what objections be these but gauds and trifles? for who would allow him for a shot, that taketh no sight of his mark but shooteth at random, or that careth not whether his powder be wet or dry, or that will not keep his piece in serviceable sort from rusting or furring, or that knows not how to give his piece her due charge, but will put in the bullet before the powder, or that thinketh his piece never to be charged till he hath filled the barrel to the very top? I have known such, but what of this? are these things to be reckoned in the disparagement of perfect shot? no they are but cavils, and the question is not of the imbecility of the man, but of the goodness and advantage of the weapon being used in his kind, and according to skill: But for these accidents before spoken of, if any of them happen, the fault is not to be imputed to the weapon, but to the soldier that hath committed some negligence. Confess now a truth, & say that the musket & caliver are of greater force & service in the field or elsewhere, than any other shot that hath been hitherto known, if the soldier that beareth them be expert, as he should be, and neglecteth no part of his duty, and then I will answer you thus.  
The very mean to bring a shot to perfection and experience, is practise, and then that man is much to blame, that (ignorantly and without knowledge) will seek to dissuade that which doth so greatly concern his country's good, and would advise us to neglect a weapon of such excellency accounted (& try to be of) in all the parts of Christendom, that would so weaken us, & advantage any enemy that would assail us, as God defend that by any persuasion we should be induced to submit unto, but rather with all carefulness to enure them, knowing that the very perfection of those weapons, doth especially consist in the practice of the bearer, and he which hath not celerity and readiness to use them, is liker to end anger a friend, than hurt an enemy.  Pill 
And for this celerity and readiness the archer is especially to be preferred, that are always ready to give their volies, and to shoot four or five arrows, before your shot shall be able to discharge one bullet.  Skill 
This position is one of the greatest reasons that they have in the behalf of archers, that they will shoot faster & oftener than shot can do, but this is ever more alleged by ignorant men, for although it be true that every archer ordinarily will shoot faster than every shot can do hand to hand, yet for service to be performed in the field, if there be 1000 shot, and 1000 archers, every captain of any sufficient experience, will so maintain his skirmish, that he will still have as many bullets flying, as the archers can shoot arrows, if they will shoot to any purpose to annoy those that shall serve against them, & there is no such necessity of hasty charging, as unskilful men will dream of, but that shot may take convenient time, and the more they be in number the more may be their leisure. Now for their readiness to give those volies that is spoken of, I hope shot, having their pieces charged, proined, their matches fired, and all things ready (as they are evermore accustomed, if there be such occasion, they can discharge with quicker expedition, than an archer can neck his arrows and draw it to his head.  Pill 
But the Archer that always marcheth with his bow ready bend, may be thought likewise to be most ready for all manner of services, and for all manner of weathers, whether fair or foul: again, the arrows in their descent are most noisome 〈◊〉 terrible to the enemy, lighting upon their faces, their breasts, their bellies, their codpéeces, their thighs, their legs, and there is no place that is free from their danger, but that they gall and spoil both horse and man. Besides, flying together in the air as thick as hail, they do not only terrify their eyes with the sight, but they do likewise amaze the very ears and hearts of men, with the noise and whistling they do make in the air.  Skill 
Lord have mercy upon us, what a fearful description is this, and I will not deny (indeed) but that they may hit us in the faces, in the breasts, and in the bellies, but for the codpiece, the tailors have taken order they shall never hurt us there any more, for they use to make our hose now without codpéeces, and I perceive it is done for a good intent and for the whistling that they do make in the air, if that be a matter of such terror, who would not be afraid to come amongst a flock of Geese when they have young goslings, but he that hath been in place where a volley of Musket and Caliver shot, hath passed by him, and hath heard any thing of their whistling, will never after think that the fluzzing of an arrow, is so fearful a matter.  
But Captain Pill to end this trifling, and to show you my opinion in a few words, the readiest way to find out the effects of these weapons, is first to consider of the place where they may be brought to serve, the time when they may do service, & what may be the effects in the execution of their services.  
First for the place, archers, are not serviceable at all, neither in trenches nor in any fortifications whatsoever, because they cannot in those places be brought to serve, but they must make their bodies an open mark to the musket and caliver, which are vsualy placed in such sort, that a man cannot put up his head above the rampire, but with great danger and peril. So that their place where they may serve, is only in the plain & open field, where they must be guarded with trench, hedge, ditch, or otherwise that horsemen may not charge them, and yet there they cannot do their execution, but they must stand in open view to the Musket and Caliver, who taking the benefit of hedge, ditch, trees, bushes, shrubs, or other coverts which almost every ground affordeth them, or otherwise by the advantage of far shooting, will without any danger at all to themselves, easily displace the other, and put them from the ground: where the Musket and Caliver having once taken place of advantage-will not be displaced neither with horse nor foot, but with great hazard to those that shall assail them.  
For the time when these weapons may do their service, first for the bow, it cannot be but within the distance of nine or ten score, for until that time the archer is not able to shoot home, for although there be many that in their gaming bows and their arrows, fitted to their length, and neatly feathered, will shoot sixteen or eighteen score, yet when they shall be brought to their livery bows, which are rather made to endure weather, then for free shooting, their arrows likewise big timbered, their feathers ruffled, whereby they will gather wind, and ordinarily made of such length, that very few will draw them to the heads by two three inches, these things considered, if ten amongst a hundred do shoot above ten score, all the rest will shoot short of nine. What advantage then hath the Musketeres, that may take their times to beat upon troops either of horsemen, or footmen, thirty score off, but within 24 with great forceand fury. Here is now a special matter to be noted, the arrow coming in the air in the descent, when it 〈…〉 furthest to fly, but it falleth to the ground, where contrariwise the shot discharged from the Musket, even from the place of the first delivery, runneth still currant within the compass of a man's height, and all the way in possibility is endanger, so that this may be concluded, neither can it be denied, as the arrow hath no possibility to endanger, in above one or two ranks, so the musket shot hath as great likelihood to hurt, in more than two or three and twenty.  
Now touching the effects of these weapons for their execution, the greatest perfection of the bow, is to gall a horse or naked men that are unarmed, & the arrow easily defended with matters of light carriage, as our barbarous Irishmen, that invented targets made of small wickers, like basket lids, which weighing not above two pound weight, would cover them from the top to the toe, and sometimes with their mantles hanging lose about their arms, which was the cause that our captains of that country, long sithence have converted all their bows to calivers, and from that time have so continued.  
The musket shot is of a greater effect, both against horse and man, and who is he that can carry such an armour as will hold them out? Of the further effects of these weapons I think I shall not need to speak, but this may suffice to those that are not disposed to cavil, and for those that are perverse, I have neither hope nor intention to alter or dissuade them, & will therefore make the more sparing conclusion.  Pill 
Captain Skill, you could never have concluded in a better time, for we are come to a good town, and I hold it best that we ride no further to night. And for these matters thus discoursed between us, although you have in a sort satisfied me, yet I have something else to say which I will defer till our next convenience, but now I hold it best to take up our lodging for this night.  Skill 
It is a very good motion, captain Pill, and lead you the way to what Inn you are best acquainted at, and I will follow you.  
FINIS.