A JUSTIFICATION OF SEPARATION from the Church of England. Against Mr Richard Bernard his invective, ENTITLED; The Separatists schism. Bianca▪ john Robinson. And God saw that the light was good, and God separated between the light, and between the darkness. Gen. 1. 4. What communion hath light with darkness? 2 Cor. 6. 14. Anno D. 1610. To the Christian reader. TWo several treatises (good reader) have been formerly published by several men in answer to Mr Bernard's book, yet have I thought it meet to add a third, not as able to speak more than they, but intending something further: namely, an examination of the particulars one by one, that so in all points the salve might be answerable unto the soar; applying myself therein to such a familiar and popular kind of defence, as Mr B. hath chosen for his accusations, where the former answers only intended a summary discovery of the insufficiency of his probabilities to dissuade from, & reasons to disprove the things he opposeth. The zeal Mr. B. manifesteth here and every where both in word and writing is exceeding great, as all men know. And surely fervent zeal in God's cause is a temper well befitting Gods servants: neither is there any more bastardly disposition to be found in a Christian, than indifferency in religion. It makes no matter of what religion the man is that is indifferent in it: for Christ will spew out of his mouth (as loathsome) the lukewarm, Rev. 3. 16. whether wine, or water. Yet as the case of religion is most weighty, so is the affection of zeal in it most dangerous, if it be either pretended only, & not in truth; or preposterous and not according to knowledge. And therefore as there is singular use of this fiery zeal for these frozen times of ours, so are we to take great heed that our fire be kindled at the † Levit. 9 24. 1 King. 18. 38. fire of the altar which came from heaven. For as Luke. Act. 2. 23. speaks of fiery tongues which came from heaven, so doth james, 3. 6. speak of a tongue which is set on fire of hell. And this we are the more carefully to mind, not only because almost all men have taught their tongues in the general to speak goodly words, and that zealously also for advantage, but more specially and with respect to the business in hand, for that many of the weaker sort have their tender hearts rather affrighted from the truth of the Lord by the deep protestations and obtestations of their guides, than any way established in those perplexed paths (wherein they walk) with them, by sound reasons. Now as the Lord is to be entreated for those people, that he would vouchsafe them wise and stable hearts, that they may † ● Thes. 5. ●1. try all things and hold that which is good, and neither suffer themselves to be withheld nor withdrawn from the truth by any such semblances of zeal, or other passion, though never so solemn and seeming never so sincere, so for their better direction herein I have thought it not amiss to commend unto their godly hearts two or three considerations, by way of caution, in this case. First therefore it must be considered that there are some I. of that hoysterous and tempestuous disposition that they can do nothing calmly or a little, their unruly affections which should follow after leisurely do force on so violently their understanding will, and whole man, as there is no stay with them, but in all their motions they are like unto those beasts, which for the unequal length of their hinder legs cannot possibly go but by leaps. Such a stormy nature, with a very little zeal amongst, may make a great stir in the world, but is justly to be suspected. And that especially (which is the 2. caution) in such men, as are suddenly II. carried, and as it were transformed from one contrary to another without either competent time or means. A suspicious course; for all thing ordinarily whither in grace, or nature, are wrought by degrees, and the passage from one extreme to another without due means, as it can hardly be sound, so can it not possibly be unsuspected. Now there are many men to be found which are violent in all things but constant in none. And though all things be with them as the figs in jeremyes * jer. 24. ●. 2. 3. two baskets two baskets, the good very good and the evil very evil, yet are they ever shifting hands out of the one basket into the other. Today they will lift up and advance a cause and person to heaven, and to morrow they will throw down both it and him to the lowest hell. It is good to have such men in a godly jealousy, and there zeal with them. And that chiefly (which I desire may be observed in the third III. place) when this their zeal rises and falls as the times serve. Almost all men will at times manifest zeal, but the most have this gift withal, that they willbe sure to take the strongest side, or that part at least, which hath some hope of prevailing. And so whilst there remains hope of bearing things over at the breast, they are very forward and fervent in there courses; but when that hope shaketh, their edge is of, and they turn their backs shamefully upon the truth, yea and oft times their faces against it. And hereupon it comes to pass that many (formerly great advauncers of the cause of reformation) have of late times not only foully forsaken, but violently opposed the same both in us and them also amongst themselves, which do in any measure desire it, publishing their books unto the world so filled with empty words and swelling vanities, as they not only bewray the weakness of their cause, but the evil and corrupt disposition of their hearts, as rather striving to manifest their servile affections for insinuations into the favours of the mighty; then to bring any thing of weight for the conviction of the adversary. The application of this I leave to the godly and wise reader, as he shall see just cause. And so leaving those things which are more general, I desire in particular, and for the present purpose that the christian reader take knowledge of this one thing, that as the pretence of zeal in the forward Ministers against all corruptions is as a thick mist, holding the eyes of many well minded from seeing the truth; so the person with whom I now particularly deal, trusts to this insinuation above all others, conveyghing himself under this colour into the hearts of the simple, and hereby making way most effectually, not only for his sage-seeming counsels & advertisements, for the quenching of their affections towards the truth: but also for his idle guesses and likelihoods, with such personal comparisons, and imputations, as wherewith his book is stored, to alienate men's hearts from it. But the godly reader is to consider that † Prov. 24. 23. to accept the person in judgement is not good, especially in the cause of the Lord, and that * ●●m. 2. 1. the faith of our glorious Lord jesus is not to be held in respect of persons: but that the naked and simple truth is to be inquired after, with an unpartial affection. And then the Lord which gives a single heart to seek after it, will give a wise heart to find it out. Math. 7. 7. Only let men take heed they be not as Pilate, ask joh. 18. 38 what is truth? and turning their backs upon it when they have done: nor having found it as Orpah did to Naomi, forsaking her weeping. Ruth 1. 14. And for myself as I could much rather have desired to have built up myself and that poor stock over which the holy Ghost hath set me in holy peace, (as becometh the house of God, wherein † 1 King. 6. 7 no sound of axe or hammer or other tool of iron is to be heard,) then thus to enter the lists of contention, so being justly called to contend for the defence of that truth upon which this man amongst others lays violent hands, I will endeavour in all good conscience (as before God) so to free the same, as I willbe nothinglesse then contentious in contention, but will count it a victory to be overcome in odious provocations, and reproaches both by him and others. And so desiring as earnestly the Christian reader into whose hands this my defence shall come, to manifest unto me such errors in the same (if by the word of God they may so be found) as to receive from me such truths, as are therein cont●yned, I leave the due trial to that alone touchstone, & commit the blessing to the Lord who alone giveth wisdom, & is able to make wise to salvation. CERTAIN OBSERVATIONS upon the Epistle dedicatory: & Preface to the Reader. FIrst I desire it may be observed by the reader how Mr Bern●●ileth the worshipful personages, under the wing of whose protection he shroudeth his papers Christian Professors. A title peculiar to some few in the land, which favour the forward preachers, frequent their sermons & advance the cause of reformation. Such persons are commonly called amongst themselves professors, virtuous and religious, & thereby distinguished fro the body of the land, which make no such profession, and are therefore accounted (and justly) profane, and without religion, and that as roundly by Mr. B. as by any other in the Land. But it seemeth he had forgot both his Epistle & whom both he in it, and others every where, call Professors for distinction sake, when he wrote his book; for in it † Pag. 112. 113. he makes all the kingdom professors at a venture, and Christian professors I hope he meaneth. Thus those whom he severeth in the Epistle, he confounds in the book. And let him well consider how he can quit himself either from flattery in the one, or from untruth in the other. And where (Mr Ber.) in the body of the Epistle, you seat yourself in the midst between the schismatical Brownist (as you charitably term him) & the Antichristian Papist, the one snatching on the right hand, and the other on the left, it is something which you say, and more belike than you are aware of. Fitly may you be seated in the midst betwixt both, being indeed a minglement & compound of both, and well may both snatch at you, and yet neither do you wrong, if neither require more than their own. justly may the Papists challenge from you that stinted service book, devised ministery, Antichristian Hierarchy, and Babylonish confusion which you have stolen away from them, as “ Gen. 31. 19 34. Rahel did her Father's idols though she covered them never so close. And justly also may we challenge from you such godly people as you fraudulently deteyn, and such truths of doctrine as you teach, as being the peculiars of the true Church: as the holy vessels were of the temple * jer. 52. 17▪ 18. though violently with the people carried to Babylon and there kept. But if you will still halt betwixt both, as † 1 King. 18 21. Israel did betwixt God and Baal, and carry in your right hand many evangelical truths with us, & in your left many Antichristian devises with the Papists, no marvel though both parties remain unsatisfyed; neither must you be offended, though the Papists for the truths you hold with us account you heretics, nor though we for the devises you reteyn with them call you Antichristian. And so you see your middle standing betwixt them and us more ways than one. And thus much of the Epistle dedicatory. In the next place I come to the preface: where amongst other just complaints of the iniquities of the times, you reckon (and that worthily) as the most dangerous Atheistical security & carnal living under a general profession, to which purpose you allege 2 Tim. 3. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. and so instance in your English people: This place of Timothy alone had you well weighed, and thoroughly improved especially the fifth verse, where separation from such persons (as having a show of godliness do deny the power thereof, as you confess the English people do) is expressly commanded, it would either have stopped your mouth from reproaching us as you do for separation, or else have opened the mouth of the most simple reader to reprove your vanity, as God did the mouth of the ass to reprove Balaam. The next thing I observe is how vauntingly you bring as challengers into the lists Mr. Gyshop, Mr Bradshaw, D. Allison and other un-named Ministers, all which you say are unanswered by us. And no marvel, for sundry of their writings never came to our hands, and besides it were a more equal and compendious way for these men to take up the defence of their Church's cause, where their fellows have forsaken it, and left it desolate, then thus to make new challenges, though in truth with the same weapons (it may be new frubbished over) wherewith the other have lost the field. Yet are their books and (by the grace of God assisting) shallbe answered in particular as they come to our hands, and are thought worthy answering: though in truth it were no hard thing for our adversaries to oppress us with the multitude of books considering both how few and how feeble we are in comparison (besides other outward difficulties) if the truth we hold which is stronger than all, did not support itself. The difference you lay down in the next place touching the proper subject of the power of Christ is true in itself being rightly understood, and only yours wherein it is corruptly related, and specially in the particular concerning us, as, that where the Papists plant the ruling power of Christ in the Pope; the Protestant's in the Bishops; the Puritants, as you term the reformed Churches & those of their mind in the Presbytery; we (whom you name Brownists) put it in the body of the Congregation, the multitude called the Church: odiously insinuating against us that we do exclude the Elders in the case of government, where on the contrary we profess the Bishops or Elders, to be the only ordinary governors in the Church, as in all other actions of the Church's communion, so also in the censures. Only we may not acknowledge them for † 1 Pet. 5 3 Lords over God's heritage, as you would make them, * pag. 10 1. controlling all, but to be controlled by none; much less essential unto the Church, as though it could not be without them; lest of all the Church itself, as you and others expound Math. 18: But we hold the Eldership, as other ordinances given unto the Church for her service, and so the Elders or officers “ 2 Cor. 4. 5 Col. 1. 25. the servants and ministers of the Church the wife, under Christ her husband, a● the scriptures expressly affirm. Of which more hereafter. And where further you advise the reader to take from the jay other birds feathers, that is, as you expound yourself, to set us before him as we differ from all other Churches. Therein you make a most inconsiderate and unreasonable motion. If a man should set the Church of England before his eyes, as it differeth but from the reformed Churches, it would be no very beautiful bird. Yea what could it in that colour afford, but Egyptian bondage; Babylonish confusion; carnal pomp; and a company of jewish; Heathenish, and Popish ceremonies? Whatsoever truth is in the world it is from God, and from him we have it, by what hand soever it be reached unto us † 1 Cor. 14. 36. Came the word of God unto you only? & unto it we have good right as the Israel of God, unto whom he hath committed his oracles. Rom. 3. 2. Towards the end of the Preface you do render two reasons upon which you do adventure to deal against us as you do, the one confidence in your cause, the other the spiritual injury which some of late have done you, in taking away part of the seal of the Ministry. Touching the first: as it is to us that know you well, no new thing to see you confident in all enterprises; so doth it much behove you to consider, how long and by what means you have been possessed of this your confident persuasion. I could name the person of good credit and note, to whom upon occasion you confessed (and that since you spoke the same things, which here you write as confidently as now you write them) that you had much a do to keep a good conscience in dealing against this cause, as you did. But a speech of your own uttered to myself (ever to be remembered with fear and trembling) can not I forget, when after the conference passing betwixt Mr H. and me, you uttered these words, Well, I will return home, & preach as I have done, and I must say as Naaman did, the Lord be merciful unto me in this thing: and thereupon you further promised with out any provocation by me or any other, that you would never deal against this cause, nor withhold any fronit: though the very next Lord's day, or next but one, you taught publikli● against it, and so broke your vow, the Lord grant, not you conscience. And for the seal of your ministery, deceive not yourself and others; if you had not a more authentic seal in your black box to show for your Ministry at your Bishop's visitation, than the converting of men to God, (which is the seal you mean,) this seal would stand you in as little stead, as it doth many others which can show as ●●●re this way as you, and yet are put from their ministery notwithstanding. And will you charge your Bishops & Church representative to deal so treacherously with the Lord, as to put down his Ministers and Officers which have his broad seal to show for their Office and ministery? What greater contumely do these vipers, these schismatical Brownists lay upon your Church then you do herein. The Church of England acknowledgeth no such seal as this is. The Bishop's ordination and licence, conformity unto their ceremonies, subscription to their articles, devout singing and saying their service-book is that which will bear a man out though he be far enough either from converting, or from preaching conversion unto any. And here I desire the reader to observe this one thing with me. When the ministers are called in question by the Bishops, they allege unto them their former subscription conformity in some measure, at least their peaceable carriage in their places, but when they would justify their ministery against us, than their usual plea is, they have converted men to God, herein acknowledging (to let pass their unsound dealing) that we respect the work of God's grace in any, at which they know the Bishops and their substitutes, if they should plead the same with them, would make a mock for the most part. I do most freely acknowledge the singular blessing of God upon many truths taught by many in the Land, and do and always shall so far honour those persons as the Lord hath honoured them herein. But that the simple conversion of sinners, (yea though the most perfect that ever was wrought) should argue a true office of ministery; the scriptures no where teach; neither shall I ever believe without them. This scripture 1 Cor. 9 1. 2. is most frequently alleged for this purpose. But as unsoundly as commonly. For if simple conversion should argue an Apostleship, then should a common effect argue a proper cause, an ordinary work, an extraordinary office: for the conversion of men is a work common to extraordinary and to ordinary officers, yea to true and false officers, yea to such as are in no office at all, as hereafter shall appear. And what could be more weakly alleged by Paul to prove himself no ordinary but an extraordinary officer, an Apostle, (which was the thing he intended) then that which is common to ordinary officers with him? Might not the Corinthians easily have replied! Nay Paul it follows not that you are an Apostle immediately called and sent by Christ, because you have begotten us to the Lord, & have been the instrument of our conversion, for ordinary Ministers Pastors & Teachers called by men, do beget to the Lord as well as you. The bare conversion of the Corinthians then is not the seal Paul speaks of, but together with it their establishment into a true visible Church, and that with such power and authority Apostolical, as wherewith Paul was furnished by the Lord. Of which more hereafter. But the father of these children (you say) you are which thus unnaturally fly from you, and whereof we so injuriously have deprived you, in which respect also you make this your hue & cry after us and them, for through the gospel you have begotten them. And have you begotten them unto the faith, as Paul did the Corinthians? and are you their father, as Paul was the father of the Corinthians? then it must needs follow that before you preached the gospel unto them, and thereby begot them to the Lord, they were in the same estate wherein the Corinthians were before Paul preached unto them, that is unbelievers, and without faith, and so were to be reputed. And how then true matter of the Church, for which you so much contend? Besides, these your begotten children were baptized long before you saw their faces, some twenty, some thirty, some forty years. Now this their baptism was true baptism, and so the true seal of their forgiveness of sins, and new birth as you affirm & prove, page 119. & this their seal of the new birth hath stood good upon them all this while visibly and externally, and yet after all this you preach unto them & beget them a new visibly & externally (for only God knoweth that which is true within.) You have begot them through the Gospel. Behold a minstrous generation, a man begetting children twenty, or thirty, or forty years after they be borne. If Nichodemus had heard of this, he might well have said, how can th●se things be. Lastly, if you be by your office the father of these children, as Paul was of the Corinthians by his, where is then that your rod of correction which Paul shakes at his children † 1 Cor. 4. 21. ? doth any law either divine or human deny a father liberty to correct his own children? Or are you one of these simple fathers of whom yourself speak † pag. 33. that can beget children but not bring them up? This ●od is seems apperteynes to both their and your reverend fathers the Bishops, who only know how to use it. To conclude the preface. In acknowledging (as you do in the end of it) that some things in the book may seem to the Christian reader to be written in the gall of bitterness, and yet suffering them so to pass, with an excuse of your intent, as herein you manifest no good conscience, choosing rather to excuse so great an evil then to reform it: so neither take you any likely course for the good of them with whom you deal, whose recovery (if they be fallen) you should rather have attempted in the bowels of mercy the● in the gall of bitterness. A●d so I c●me to the parts of your book as they lie in order. Of the Authors Advertisements, called by him Christian, & counsels of peace. THe subject whereof Mr Bern. treats in this place (being peace) is very plausible, the name amiable, the thing both pleasant and profitable. And as † 2. Cor. 13 ● Thes. 5. 13 God is the God of peace, so are not they God's children, nor borne of him, which desire it not; yea even in the midst of their contentions. But as all vices use to cloth themselves with the habits of virtues, that under those liveries they may get countenance and find the more free passage in the world, so especially in the Church all tyranny and confusion do present themselves under this colour, taking up the politic pretence of peace, as a weapon of mere advantage wherewith the stronger, and greater party useth to beat the weaker. The Papists press the protestants with the peace of the Church and for the rent which they have made in it, condemn them beyond the heathenish soldiers, which forbore to divide Christ's garment; as deeply do the Bishops charge the Ministers refusing conformity and subscription, and both of them us. But the godly wise must not be affrighted either from seeking or embracing the truth with such bugs as these are, but seeing † jam. 3. 17. the wisdom which is from above, is first pure, then peaceable, he must make it a great part of his Christian wisdom to discern betwixt godly and gracious peace, and that which is either pretended for advantage, or mistaken by error, & so to labour to hold peace in purity. Let it then be manifested unto us that the Communion which the Church of England hath with all the wicked in the Land, without separation, is a pure communion, that their service book devised and prescribed in so many words and letters to be read over and over with all the appurtenances, is a pure worship, that their government by national Provincial and diocesan Bishops according to their Canons, is a pure government, & then let us be blamed if we hold not peace with them in word & deed; otherwise though they spoke unto us never so oft both by messengers and mouth of peace, and again of peace, * as jehoram did to jehu, yet must 2 King. 9 we answer them in effect, as jehu did jehoram, what peace whilst the whoredoms of the mother of fornications the jezebel of Rome do remain in so great number amongst them? And I doubt not but Mr Bern. and 1000 more Ministers in the land, (were they secure of the Magistrates sword, and might they go on with his good licence) would wholly shake of their canonical obedience to their Ordinaries, and neglect their citations and censures and refuse to sue in their Courts, for all the peace of the Church which they commend to us for so sacred a thing. Could they but obtain licence from the Magistrate to use the liberty which they are persuaded Christ hath given them, they would soon shake off the Prelate's yoke, and draw no longer under the same in spiritual communion with all the profane in the land, but would break those bonds of iniquity, as easily as Samson did the cords wherewith Dalilah tied him, and give good reasons also from the word of God for their so doing. And yet the approbation of men and angels, makes the ways of God & works of religion never a whit the more lawful, but only the more free from bodily danger. Whereupon we (the weakest of all others) have been persuaded to embrace this truth of our Lord jesus Christ, though in great and manifold afflictions, & to hold out his testimony as we do, though without approbation of our Sovereign, knowing that as his approbation in such points of God's worship, as his word warranteth not, cannot make them lawful; so neither can his disallowance make unlawful such duties of religion, as the word of God approveth, nor can he give dispensation to any person to forbear the fame, Dan▪ 3. 18. Act. 5. 29. These things I thought good to commend to the reader that he may be the more cautelous of this and the like colourable pretences, wishing him also well to remember, that peace in disobedience is that old theme of the false Prophets, whereby they flattered the mighty, and deceived the simple, jer. 6. 14. & 8. 11. Let us now come to consideration of the counsels themselves so fr●ndly given, and so sagely set down. And therein to approve what is good and wholesome, to interpret in the best sense what is doubtful, and to pass by unrequited such contumelies as wherewith Mr B. reproacheth us, as in all places, so here in his rhyming Rhetoric, wherein he labours to roll ●s even as may be, betwixt the Atheistical Securitant, and anabaptistical Puritan, the careless Conformitant, and th● preposterous Reformitant, and so forth, Rules for peace. as the rhyme runneth, I will come to those ten Rules or Canons prescribed by him, pag. 3. 4. 5. for the preservation of peace in the Church or state ecclesiastical, for that alone we oppose, humbling ourselves under the hand of the Magistrate as much, and more truly than himself. 1. Uphold the manifest good therein. Mr Ber. A man upholds that which is good most naturally, by his personal Answ. practice of it, and actual communion in it: & thus we ought to maintain every good thing in our places, if sin lie not in the way betwixt us and it. But since by the confusion which is upon the face of the earth, good & evil are aught time's so intermingled, as that men cannot touch that which is good, but some evil will cleave unto their fingers, when this so falls out, then have we a dispensation from the Lord to forbear even that good which without sin can not be practised. Rom. 3. 8. And yet then also we must acknowledge that good thing to be as it is, in what person or estate soever, and so uphold it. And lastly so far as possibly we can we must sever and select the good from the evil, & so even in our practice also uphold & maintain that good being so severed, whereof whilst it was commingled with the evil, we could have no lawful use. And all these ways we uphold whatsoever manifest good we know in the Church of England: whether doctrine, ordinance, or personal grace, to our utmost. We do acknowledge in it many excellent truths of doctrine, which we also teach without commixture of error, many Christian ordinances which we also practise being purged from the pollution of Antichrist, and for the godly persons in it (could we possibly separate them from the profane) we would gladly embrace them with both arms. But being taught by the Apostle speaking but of one wicked person, and of one jewish ordinance † 1 Cor. 5. 6 Gal. 5. 2. 9 that a little leaven leveneth the whole lump, we cannot be ignorant how sour the English Assemblies must needs be: neither may we justly be blamed though we dare not dip in their meal, lest we be soured by their leven. The second and third Rules follow, which for order-sake I will invert, setting the latter in the former place. 2. Bear with lighter faults for a time, till fit occasion be offered to Mr. B●rn. have them amended. 1. No sin is light in itself, but being continued in, and countenanced Answ. destroyeth the sinner. Matth. 5. 19 2. It is the property of a profane and hardened heart evermore to extenuate and lessen sins. 3. Though the bearing and forbearing not only of small but even of great sins also must be for at time, yet it must be but for a time, and that is whilst reformation be orderly sought, and procured, Lev. 19 17. But what time hath wrought in the Church of England all men see, growing daily by the just judgement of God, from evil to worse, and being never afore time so impatient either of reformation, or other good, as at this day. 4. A man must so bear an evil, as he be no way accessary unto it, by forbearing any means appointed by Christ for the amending it. 3. The manifest evil, labour in thy place by the best ●●anes to have Mr. Bern. them amended peaceably. This is not sufficient, nor enough, except our places be such and Answ. we in such Churches, as wherein we may use the ordinary means Christ hath left for the amendment of things: otherwise our places and standing themselves are unwarrantable, and must be forsaken. And this I desire may be well considered by all such whether Ministers or people, as know and acknowledge that Christ requireth of them further duties for the amendment of evils, than their very places will give them liberty to perform. The fourth & fifth and sixth Canon may be received with out danger, the seventh not so. 7. Let the corruption of the person, and his lawful place be distinguished: Mr. Ber● and where person and places are not so lawful, and in the proposed end not against thee, wisely labour to make them for thee: and make that good of the● thou canst, and wholly condemn not that Ministry which a godly man may make for good. We may not communicate at all in that Ministry which is Ans. exercised by an unlawful person or in an unlawful place, though God may bring good out of it, lest we do evil that good may come thereof, which is damnable. Rom. 3. 8. And if that be true which the most forward profess & do hold, that the approbation and acceptation of the people gives being to the Ministry, it concerns the people carefully to see unto it, that they accept not of, nor communicate with any unlawful person in an unlawful place, lest thereby they set up, or give being unto his Ministry, and so be deep in his transgression. The eight and ninth rule, I pass over as being without exception. Only I see not upon what occasion the author should thus disorderly shuffle into this controversy (which is merely ecclesiastical) such considerations as in the former of these two rules and in many other places he doth concerning the frame and alteration of civil states, except he would either insinuate against us that we went about to alter the civil state of the kingdom; or at least, that the alteration of the state ecclesiastical, must needs draw with it, the alteration of the civil state; with which ●●te the Prelates have a long time bleared the eyes of the Magistrates. But how deceitfully, hath been sufficiently manifested, and offer made further The Assertion. to manifest the same by solemn disputation. And the truth is, that all states and policies which are of God, Christia● offer. whether Monarchycall, Aristocratical or democratical, or how mixed soever, are capable of Christ's government. Neither doth the nature of the state, but the corruption of the persons hinder the same in one or other. 10. Refuse not to obey authority in any thing wherein there is not t● Mr B. thee manifestly known a sin to be committed against God: let fantasies pass: be more loath to offend a lawful Magistrate, than many private persons. Where thou canst not yield, there humbly crave pardon; where thou canst not be tolerated, be content with correction for safety of conscience. Authority indeed is to be obeyed in all things; if they be good, Ans. actively, and by doing them, if evil and unlawful, passively and by suffering with meekness for righteousness sake: if pardon cannot be obtained, as is well advised. But where counsel is given to ob●y in any thing whrein a manifest known sin is not committed against God, this morsel must not be swallowed down till it be well chewed. For a man may commit a sin against God, in doing a thing wherein there is no sin. The sin may be in the person doing, & not in the thing done: as when a man doth a good thing against his conscience or doubtingly, and without faith. 1 john. 3. 20. Rom. 14. 23. And where Mr. Bern. further adviseth rather to offend many private persons then one lawful Magistrate, I doubt not he gives no worse counsel than he himself follows, who (except I be much deceived in him) had rather offend half the private persons in the diocese, than one Archbishop though he be an unlawful Magistrate. But of the case of offence hereafter. In the mean while, let us remember our care be not to offend the Lord, and if with the offence of a private person (though never so base) be joined the offence of the Lord, better offend all the both lawful and unlawful Magistrates in the world, than such a little one. Mat. 18. 6. Lastly where Mr. Ber. concludes this decade of counsel with that which is written Rom. 14. 17. 18. he misinterprets the Apostles words if he put them down (as it seems he doth) for a reason of that which goes before. For the Apostles in that place hath no reference at all to the authority of the Magistrate, whose kingdom indeed doth stand in meat and drink and the like bodily things, wherein he may command civilly, & is to be obeyed in the Lord: but the Apostles purpose is to admonish the strong in faith to take heed of abusing their Christian liberty in the unseasonable use of meats & drinks & the like (to the offence of the weak brethren) as though the kingdom of God stood in the peremptory use of those things, & that they were therein to show the liberty of the gospel. Furthermore howsoever the kingdom of God be not meat & drink, yet is the kingdom of God much advanced or hindered both in a man's self and in others, in the seasonable or unseasonable use of them. A man in using them (or rather abusing them) with offence to a weak brother, may destroy both him, and himself also in breaking the law of charity. Rom. 14. 15. 20. It remains now we come to the second rank of counsels, as they are divided by the author, for what cause I know not, neither will I curiously inquire. but will take them as I find them. 1. Omit no evident and certain commandment imposed of God. Mr Ber. If there be nothing but probability of sinning in obeying the precepts of men, s●t not opinion before judgement. Woeful counsel, God knoweth, and in deed such as directs a Answ. course to harden the heart of him that follows it in all impiety. For he that will at the first do that by man's precept, which is like or which he thinks to be sin; will in time do that upon the like regard which he knows to be sin: and so fall into all presumption against God. Men are rather to be admonished (especially in the case of religion about which we deal) that if the Lord shall touch their tender hearts with fear and jealousy of the things they do, they rather suspend in doubtful things, (except they can in some measure overcome their doubting by faith,) till in the use of all good means, the God of wisdom and father of lights give to discern more plainly of things that differ, least being headstrong & hard-mouthed against the check of conscience, which the Lord like a bit puts into their mouths, they provoke the Highest to withdraw his hand, & to lay the rein on their necks, & so they even run head long upon those evils without fear, upon which at the first they have adventured with fearful & troubled consciences, which is oft times the just recompense of such errors from the Lord. Rom. 1. 27. 28. 2. Let ancient probability of truth be praeferred before new conjectures Mr B. of error against it. As this rule shows by what tenure Mr B. holds his religion, Ans. namely, by probabilities & likelihoods of truth; so if he mean that this way (wherein we by God's mercy walk) is any new way, or our rules conjectures, I do hope (by the good hand of God herein assisting me) to make it manifest, that this way is † jer. 6. 16. that old and good way, after which all men ought to ask and to walk therein, that so they may find rest unto their souls. And that we are not guided in it by conjectures neither go by guesses, but by the infallible rule of Christ's Testament. 3. Mark and hold a difference between these things; the equity of Mr B. law and execution: between established truths generally, and personal errors of some: between soundness of doctrine, and erroneous application: between substance, & circumstance: the manner, & the matter: between the very being of a thing, and the well being thereof: between worship, and conveniency: between a commandment, and a commandment to thee: between lawfulness, and expediency: and between that which is given absolutely, or in some respect. Answ. The sixth and 7. rule in the former rank (being the same in substance) might well have been bound up in the same bundle with this, had not the author laboured to supply that in the number of his counsels, which is wanting in their weight. But to the point. There is a difference indeed to be held betwixt the laws of the Church of England, with the ordinances and doctrines by law established, and the personal executions, exercises, & applications of them; & the difference is betwixt evil, & worse: & the worse of the twain by far I deem the laws & ordinances with sundry of the doctrines. For though the whole carriage of the courts miscalled-spirituall, be most corrupt, & abominable, and though the pulpits be made by very many (especially in the greatest places (the stages of vanity, falsehood, and slander, so that as the Prophet said, * Mich. 1. 5. what is the wickedness of jacob? Is not Samaria? And what are the high places of juda? Is not jerusalem? so may we say what is the sink of all bribery, and extortion? Is not the Consistory? What is the theatre of carnal vanity? Is not the pulpit? Yet in truth the the laws are worse than those which execute them, and the ordinances by them established then those which minister them. Let but the last Canons (which are as well the laws and doctrine of the Church of England, as the Canons of the counsel of Trent are the laws and doctrine of the Church of Rome) be severely and sincerely executed as becomes the laws of the kingdom of Christ, the Church all in the land having any fear of God, would find and complain that their bondage were increased, as was the bondage of the Israelites under the Egyptians. Exo. 5. But what though there were neither Statute nor Canon law enacted, for the confusion in the assemblies collected and consisting of all the parish inhabitants, be they Atheists, adulterers, blasphemers and how evil not? what though no law ecclesiastical or civil did confirm the transcendent power of the Bishops & Archbishops for the placing and displacing of Ministers, for the thrusting out and receiving in, both of Ministers and people, and so f●r innumerable other corruptions? Yet these things being universally practised in the land, the Church were nothing at all the more pure, only it had the more liberty of reformation, which now by the laws and cannons, as by iron bars, is shut out. What Statute or Canon was there that the Corinthians should suffer amongst them the incestuous person unreformed? And yet for so doing this † Cor. 5. 6. little leaven levens the whole lump. What Parliament or Convocation-house amongst the Galathians had decreed the mingling of circumcision with the gospel? And yet for so doing they are charged by the Apostle to be * Gal. 1. 6. removed or turned away to another gospel. By what law w●s the mystery of iniquity confirmed? Or antichrist's coming into the world agreed upon in the Apostles time? And yet “ 2 Ths. 2. 7. the mystery of iniquity then wrought; and many Antichrists were then † 1 joh. 2. 1● come into the world. And yet these mischiefs being found in the Churches in the Apostles times, were as well imputed unto them, as if a thousand Parliaments & Convocations had ratified them. To proceed. It is also true which is further counseled, that a difference must be held betwixt substance & circumstance; betwixt the manner and the matter; betwixt the being and well being of a thing; and so of the rest: but withal it must be observed that the Lord hath in his word, as well appointed the manner how he will have things done, as the things themselves, and that even circumstances prescribed and determined by the Lord, are of that force, not only to deface the well-being, but to overturn the true being of God's worship. The Lord commanded the Israelites by Moses to bring they● sacrifices and oblations to the place which for that purpose he would choose and there to offer them, Deut. 12. 5. 6. And did not all offerings brought to any other place (without special dispensation) stink in his nostrils? And yet this was but a circumstance of place. And wherein stands the breach of the fourth commandment but in a circumstance of time? Lastly, what was the transgression of Vzziah the King, for which God struck him with leprosy, but a personal aberration, a sin in the circumstance of person, for that he being no Priest, would adventure to offer incense at the Altar. 2. Chr. 26. 16. 17. 18. 19 Of the same nature was the sin of Corah Dathan & Abiram, merely circumstantial: Dathan and Abiram being of a wrong tribe, and Corah of a wrong family and yet for that their rebellion, the earth by God's judgement opened her mouth, and swallowed up both them and theirs. Numb. 16. 1. 2. 32. And for the well being and right ordering of good things, the Lord as well requireth it, as the things themselves. He hath not left in the hands of the Church a rude matter to frame after her own fashion, but with the matter he hath also appointed the manner and form wherein all things must be done. When Moses under the law was to make the Tabernacle, the Lord did not set him out the matter and stuff whereon to make it, and so left the manner and form● to his pleasure and discretion, but appointed the one as well as the other; and if he had framed it, or any thing about it after any other fashion then according to the pattern showed him in the mount, he had done abominably in the sight of the Lord. Exo. 25. 3-40. etc. and 26. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. etc. Hebr. 8. 5. When the Ark of God was to be removed upon occasion, the Priests were to cover it, that no hand might touch it, and so to carry it upon their shoulders to the place of rest. Numb. 4. 11. 15. Deut. 3. 19 Now this order of the Lord was violated, in the bringing of it out of the house of Abinadab uncovered and upon a cart, after the fashion of the Egyptians, 1 Sam. 8. 7. 8. And the breach of this order the Lord punished very severely, making a breach upon Vzzah the Priest for touching the Ark, which was his personal sin, and for carrying it upon the cart, which sin was common to the rest of the Priests with him; he was stricken dead by the hand of God in the same place. 2 Sam. 6. Now both this and the former examples are left to warn us to take he●d, that we presume not against the Lord in the least ceremony or circumstance, neither make any transgression small in our eyes, or the eyes of others, as the manner of too many is. But let us rather learn to fear before the Highest whose eyes are pure, & can endure none iniquity; and let us labour to keep our hearts tender against all sin, even against that which seemeth the least; knowing that if the Lord should let Satan loose upon us, to press our consciences, & should withdraw his comforts from us in our temptations, the least sin would prove a burden untolerable. 4 Use the present good which thou mayest enjoy to the utmost, and Mr B. an experienced good before thou dost trouble thyself to seek for a supposed better good, untried, which thou enjoyest not. We must so enjoy experienced good things, as we stock not our Answ. selves in respect of other things, as yet untried. We may not stint or circumscribe either our knowledge, or faith, or obedience, within straighter bounds then the whole revealed will of God, in the knowledge, & obedience whereof we must daily increase & edify ourselves; much less must we suffer ourselves to be stripped of any liberty which Christ our Lord hath purchased for us, and given us to use for our good; Gall 5. 1. And here (as I take it) comes in the ●ase of many hundreds in the Church of England, who what good they may enjoy (that is safely enjoy or without any great bodily danger,) that they use very fully. Where the ways of Christ lie open for them, by the authority of men, & where they may walk safely with good leave, there they walk very uprightly, and that a round pace; but when the commandments of Christ are as it were hedged up with Cant. 1. 6. thrones, by men's prohibitions, there they foully † step a side, and pitch their tents by the flocks of his fellows. There are many in the land very zealous & severe in all the duties of the second table, and in the private and personal duties of the first table, and in such public duties also as the times will bear, and in those respects may say as jehu did to jehonadab, * 2 King. ●0. 15. see the ze●● which I have for the house of the Lord: but consider the same persons i● their Communion, Leyturgy, Ministry and government, & there seemeth a most monstrous composition. These things in the same men do agree as ill as the Ark of God & Dagon in the same house. We ought in no case to share our service betwixt Christ and Antichrist, nor to stock ourselves in any the least parts of the revealed will of God, but must grow and increase in the whole body of obedience, and all the parts thereof; otherwise (as in the natural body if one part grow and not an other) the effect willbe monstrous. Ezek. 18. 11. 12. jam. 2. 10. Deut. 8. 1. The 5. 6. & 7. precept I pretermit: the 8. followeth. 8. Never praesume to reform others, before thou hast w●●● Mr Ber. ordered thyself. etc. True zeal, it is certain, ever begins at home, and gives mor● Answ. liberty unto other men than it dares assume unto itself. And there is nothing more true or necessary to be considered, then that every man ought to order himself and his own steps first. That is good & the best, but not all. For if by God's commandment we ought to † Exod. 23. ●. bring back our enemy's ox or ass that strayeth, how much more to bring into order our brother's soul & body wandering in by paths? And here Mr Bernard brings to mind a practice usual with many of the preachers in their sermons. They will advance prayer, viz, their service book; that they may extenuate preaching; commend peace, that they may smother truth; plead much for censures due to be given him, that they may detain from God his due; and every where send men back into themselves, that they may keep them from looking upon others, and so make them careless of such duties towards their brethren, as God's word binds them unto. Levi●. 19 17. 1 Thes. 5. 14. As though the commandments of God were opposite one to another, and could not stand together, whereas they are all most holy and good, and all helpful one to another, and all to be practised in their places; whether they concern our selves or our brethren. They of the one sort ought to be done, and they of the other not to be left undone. The 9 10. and 11. Rule I acknowledge without exception. 12. Whomsoever thou dost see to do a miss, judge it not to be Mr. Bern. of wilfulness, but either of ignorance, and so offer to inform them; or of infirmity, and so pity them, and pray for them. Be charitable, etc. This Rule as it is not universally true, for we may oft times discern Answ. in men's both words and actions, wilful and wayward obstinacy, and so may judge of them, 1 Tim. 6. 5. Tit. 3. 10. 11: so is it ill practised by him that gives it. For amongst other sins wherewith he loadeth he Separists in his book, † Pag. 65. wilful obstinacy in their schism●, is one. Here full charitably he advertiseth to judge no man, wilful in his ●inn, & yet there he himself so judgeth us: either excluding us from the common liberties of mankind, as worms and no men; or himself following the steps of his forefathers, in * Mat. 23▪ 4. laying heavy burdens upon other men's shoulders, which himself will not touch with the least finger. Against the 13. direction, I have not to oppose, and therefore pass to the 14. and last, touching things indifferent; by which this author makes way into many an impertinent, & indigested consideration. The rule followeth. 14. In things indifferent make no question for conscience sake, so Mr. Bern. be that neither holiness, meri●e nor necessity be put therein: nor they used for any part of God's worship, but for decency, order and edification. For answer of this, sundry things are to be considered. Answ. And first, that which the Apostle speaks, 1 Cor. 10. 25. 27. of the common conversation of Christians in the world, and of their liberty that way, Mr. Bern. misapplieth to the case of religion, and matters of God's worship, as though men might use as great liberty in the matters of religion or about the same, as in their worldly affairs. Secondly, where the Apostle, ver. 25. 27. directs the faithful to make no conscience of eating, he further addeth, ver. 28. 29. that for the offence of a weak brother scandalising at the eating of Idolothites, they ought to make conscience and to forbear. This latter part which is the very drift of the scripture, Mr. Bern. concealeth, and so maimeth the sense, and frustrateth the reader; and whether to thi●●nd he leaves not the words unquoted, his own heart knows best. 3. Howsoever you labour to cover your Popish ceremonies (for th●se you mean though you name them not,) under the title of things indifferent, of to●es trifles and the like, (champing them small, that they may the easilier be swallowed,) denying that either holiness, or necessity is put in them, or that they are made parts of God's worship, yet hath the contrary been sufficiently manifested by your own men, to whose large treatises to this purpose, I refer the reader. Notwithstanding since Mr. B. casts this consideration, as a stone in the way to other matters of importance, I may not altogether overstryde it, but will turn it over as I go, that the reader as he passeth by, may see what worms and other vermin, lies under it. First then to l●t pass the holiness which thousands in the land put in the cross, surplice, kneeling at the communion, without which they think no service or sacrament so acceptable to God, for which cause alone they ought not only to be forborn, but to be abolished much rather than the brazen serpent, 2. King. 18. it is evident that the same special uses and ends are ascribed unto them, and to the principal parts of God's worship: and so agreeing in their ends they agree in their natures. One main end & use of the word of God, is to teach & signify unto us the good will of God, and our duty mutually towards him and towards our brethren, & to stir up our minds to the remembrance and performance of t●● same, 2 Tim. 3. 16. And what less is attributed to the ceremonies, when † Treatise of Ceremonies they are neither dark nor dumb, but ap● to stir up the dull mind of man to the remembrance of his duty to God. The proper ends and uses of baptism are to initiate the parties baptized into the Church of Christ, and to consecrate them to his service, & so to serve for badges of Christianity, by which it is distinguished from all other professions, Mat. 28. 19 1 Cor. 12. 13. And for what meaner use serves the sign of the cross in baptism, by or with which, † service book, Ca●●. 30. the child is received into the congregation of Christ's flock, and by it as by an honourable badge of Christian profesion dedicated to the service of Christ? And so those ceremonies supposed indifferent, agreeing with the main parts of God's worship in their ends, must agree also in their natures with them, since fines rerum sunte formis, & so consequently must have holiness in them, or else your worship Mr. B. is very unholy. And what necessity is put in them, all men see when the purest preaching in the land without them is thought not only unnessary, but even intolerable. And if * 1 Cor. 9 16. necessity be laid upon the Ministers to preach the Gospel, then that to which the preaching of the Gospel must give place, is more necessary, and so made. Moreover, to make a thing indifferent, and yet to serve for decency, order and edification, includes a contradiction: For it is not an indifferent thing to minister the ordinances of Christ decently orderly and to edification, but a matter of simple necessity, 1 Cor. 14. 26. 40. Yea I add, if the Ceremonies make the worship of God the more comely, orderly, and edificative, they ought continually & diligently to be used, yea though they were forbidden by the Highest power upon earth: as on the contrary, if they advantage not the worship of God for those purposes, they are vain and frivolous, & to be forborn in or about the worship of God, which abhors all such vanity. Lastly, as we live in a very indifferent age for religion, wherein the most are indifferent of what religion they are; yea whither they be of any or none; so no mervayl though men stand stis●y for indifferency of things. And when they have amongst them such devises, as they neither can approve for good, nor will condemn as evil, they baptise them into the name of indifferent things. But the truth is, there is nothing simply indifferent in the use: but be it never so base or mean a ceremony, circumstance or appurtenance to any solemn action, it is either good or evil according to the furtherance or hindrance which it affoardeth to the main▪ If it give furtherance to a natural action, it is naturally good; if to a civil action, civilly good; if to a religious action, religiously good; and so to be reputed: otherwise it is vain at the least: and vanity as it is every where evil, so is it in the matters of religion the taking of God's name in vain. The next thing which Mr. Bern. undertakes, is to set down how scrupulosity of conscience ariseth in men: for which disease (if it arise) surely he showeth himself a physician of no value for the healing of it: but either smothereth the same under the authority of the Magistrate, or dispenseth with it upon good meanings, or forceth it on without assurance, or entangleth it with new doubts. In the first inquiry which he wills men to make into themselves, touching scrupulosity of conscience amongst other things he speaks thus. If the ground, uz. of doubting be not a judgement enlightened, & Mr. Bern. convinced, it is not trouble of conscunce, but a dislike working discontentment upon some other ground. And this in the margin he wills the reader to note well, as in Answ. deed he may note it and brand it, too for ill & unadvised counsel. For howsoever no man's conscience ought to scandalise or be troubled at the use of lawful things (for the larger conscience the better in that which is lawful) and that such doubts in the heart do arise from weakness of faith; and weakness of faith from want of knowledge: yet since we all † 1 Cor. 13. ●●. know but in part, & that our faith is according to our knowledge, and our conscience according to our faith, when a doubt or scruple ariseth in our hearts touching the lawfulness of things, yea though it be of very ignorance, we must not pass it over lightly without trouble, lest it prove as a thorn in the heel and rankle inwardly. Neither are such scruples always so easily removed, as Mr. Bern. makes account. Weak and tender consciences do oft times stick at a very straw, and there must they stand, till the Lord give strength to step over. The thing intended and promised by Mr. Bern. in the next place, is satisfaction to the perplexed conscience, and direction in that case: which he is so far from performing by sound and resolved counsel (as were meet) as in stead thereof, he propounds sundry doubts and queries of his own, which he leaves unsatisfyed, to the further entangling of his perplexed patient: abusing also his reader too much in performing questions, where he promiseth answers. Well, howsoeur it be an easier thing to tie knots then to lose them, and that a simple man may cast a stone into a ditch, which a wise man cannot get out again: yet are not those questions which Mr. Bern. propounds and so leaves unanswered, so dark & doubtful, that a man needs take so long a journey as the Queen of Sheba did, for resolution. The first quaere of weight being the 4. in order, I will set down word for word, though it be large, because it is of special consideration. The question than is. Why a man should be more scrupulous to seek to have warrant plainly M. Ber. for every thing he doth in ecclesiastical causes, even about things indifferent, more than about matters politic in civil affairs. Men in these things know not the ground nor end of many things, which they do yield unto upon a general command to obey authority, and knowing them not to be directly against God's will: and yet every particular obedience in civil matters must be 1. of conscience, 2. as serving the Lord (so must every servant his master) which cannot be without knowledge & persuasion that we do well even in that particular which we obey in. Which m●n usually for conscience sake enquir● not into, but do rest themselves with a general commandment of obeying lawful authority, so it be not against a plain commandment of God. What therefore doth let but that a man may so satisfy himself in matters Ecclesiastical? Though as plain a warrant must be had from God's word, Answ. for the things we do in matters politic, as in causes cclesiastical; and that obedience in the one as well as in the other must be of conscience: yet notwithstanding the same word of God warranteth unto us clean and an other and different course of obedience in things civil, and in things ecclesiastical. And the gross ignorance or ungodly concealment of this difference, is the cause of great confusion. It must therefore be considered that this difference stands in two points, 1. the nature of the things and their proper ends. 2. the power immediate by which they are imposed; from which two ariseth necessarily a third difference to be made in the conscience of obedience unto them. First than it cannot be denied, but matters civil and politic do come under the general administration and government of the world, and do respect the outward man for this present life. On the other side, matters ecclesiastical come under the special administration of the Church, and serve for the edification and building up of the inward man to life eternal. Secondly, Magistrates and men in authority, do enact and impose their civil decrees and ordinances upon their subjects, by a Kingly and Lordly power, as being Kings and Lords civilly over the outward man, and his outward estate; Math. 20. 25. and may by their Kingly and Lordly power command in their own names, and that upon occasion to the civil hurt and hindrance of many of their people, & are therein to be obeyed notwithstanding, Rom. 13. 1. 2. 3. etc. Mat. 22. 21. But in causes ecclesiastical not so. There is no King of the Church but Christ, who is † Rev. 15. 3 Isa. 62. 11. the King of Saints and Saviour of Zion, no Lord but jesus, who is the only * Ephe. 4. 5 jam. 4. 12. Lord and Lawgiver of his Church. And all his laws & statutes tend to the furtherance and advancement of every one of his subjects in their spiritual estate, & neither King nor Kezar may or aught to impose any law to the least praeju dice of the same, neither are they therein (if they should) to be obeyed. Our civil liberty we may lose without sin, & without sin undergo bodily damages, Math. 22. 21. but we are bidden “ Gal. 5. 1. stand for the liberty wherewith Christ hath freed us, & that is the whole liberty of the Church; & to † Col 2. 16. let no man judge us (that is, ecclesiastically,) no not in mea●s & drinks, though civilly men may command & judge us in them. And upon these grounds truly laid by the word of God, an answer may be framed on this manner. In civil affairs we may and aught to obey for the authority of the commander, yea though we know not any good, but on the contrary much harm to our bodily estate, coming unto us by the same: but in matters ecclesiastical which are subordinate to the souls good, we must obey only for the ends of the things commanded, and as they tend to the edification of ourselves and others, 1 Cor. 14. 26. To conclude this point, since the Apostles expressly commands, that all things in the Church be done to the edification of the same, I would demand of Mr. B. with what faith or good conscience he or any other man, can do or enterprise any one thing in the Church, which he or they are not persuaded by the word of God (which is the rule of faith) tends to edification. These things being thus, there is no cause why Mr. B. should account it curiosity to search particularly into every thing for satisfaction: (the differences formerly laid down being observed) neither doth this holy care of God's servants (as he further addeth) work upon men's wits to bring distinctions, but on the contrary men of corrupt minds and unfaithful lest they should be reform by the word of God, do get distinctions, like excuses after their own hearts. Much less is it either truly or christianly affirmed which followeth, that the more men seek in doubts for resolution, the further they are from it. For howsoever it may be thus with M. B. & many others, which seek the truth as cowards do their enemies, with a fear to find it, lest it trouble their carnal peace; yet have other men better issue of their labours, and by † Mat. 7. 7 & 13. 44. seeking have found that hidden treasure for the purchase whereof they are content to sell all they have, and to buy it. In the next place come in six rules of directions how to settle the conscience to prevent scrupulosity, and perplexity. 1. Keep all main truths in the word which are most plainly Mr Ber. set down, and are by law of nature engraven in every man. First, you are much mistaken Master Bern. if you imagine Answer. that all main truths in the word are engraven in every man by the law of nature. For the gospel is the more principal part of the word, which notwithstanding is wholly supernatural and above the created knowledge of man or Angel, Mat. 11. 27. Ephe. 3. 10. Secondly, if in commending main truths and such as ar● plainly set down, you do insinuate that there are any truths so mean which we may either neglect to search, or (having found them) to obey, therein you should deceive by promising liberty, & make yourself wiser than God, and cross his ordinance & appointment. 2 Tim. 3. 16. Deut. 4. 1. 2. And for things left more dark in the Scriptures, they must be unto us matter of humiliation in our natural blindness, and of more earnest meditation and prayer with all good conscience. 2. Believe every collection truly & necessarily gathered by an immediate Mr. Bern. consequence from the text. This is good but not sufficient. For collections truly made Answ. (though by mediate consequences one after another) are to be received, though the fewer the better, and the less subject to danger. And we must not curtal the discourse of reason soberly used and sanctified by the word, so short as Mr. B. would have us. When the Lord jesus was to deal with the Saducees about the resurrection he took his proof from that which is written, Exo. 3. 6. I am the God of Abraham, etc. which words do no way conclude the Math. 22. 23— 32. resurrection of the body (which was the question) by any immediate consequence, and yet the collection was good and necessary. The 3. and 4. direction I omit as questionless, and come to the 5. in order. 5. Enterteyn true antiquity, & follow the general practice of the Church Mr. Bern. of God in all ages, where they have not erred from the evident truth of God. It cannot be denied but that is best which is most ancient, Answ. and that truth and righteousness were in the world before sin & error; but neither the one nor the other did continue long either amongst men or Angels. And he that but considers what monstrous errors and corruptions sprang up in the Church of the new Testament, whilst the Apostles lived which planted them, will not think it strange though almost all were overgrown with such briars and thorns in a few ages following. And what not only unsoundness in doctrine, but uncertainty in story is to be found in the most ancient writers, no man though but even meanly exercised in them, can be ignorant. And yet if we would take up these weapons, it were easy to make good our part against the Church of England in the main differences. But we have the word of God which is to us a sure testimony: and if he be only to be heard of whom God from heaven hath testified † Mat. 3▪ 17. & 23. 10. Act. 1. 22. , as the only Prophet and Doctor of his Church, we are not then so much to regard what any man hath practised before us, as what Christ hath commanded which is before all. And we must in the first labour to have our hearts seasoned with the word of God and according to that taste must all men's both persuasions and practices be savored by us: taking heed of those preposterous courses commonly held; some at the first corrupting their hearts with the thorny subtleties of the schoolmen, & more witty than sound sayings of the fathers, and others prejudicing and forestall themselves by the present and sensible state of things before their eyes, or by the general and partial practice of times past; and so coming in the last place to the word of God, haling that in, to back and support their exalted forestalled imaginations. 6. If thou suffer, let it be for known truth, and against known wickedness, M. B. for which thou hast examples in the word, or of holy martyrs in story, suffering for the same or the like. But beware of far fetched consequences, etc. We are to forbear evils not only known, but suspected & * Rom. 14▪ 22. 23. Ans. doubted of. And he that knows what a heart meaneth truly softened and made tender with the blood of Christ, had rather suffer all extremities than approve that as good, either by word, writing, or practise, which he but doubteth to be evil, and to displease God, except by faith he can overcome that doubt in some measure. And for us, though we had no example either in the word of God, or other story of any martyrs suffering in the same or the like particulars with us, yet since the things we suffer for, are parts of the general truth of the gospel, which others before us have witnessed, we must expose and give our bodies to the smiters, and our Isa. 50. 6. cheeks unto the nippers, and must not hide our faces from reproaches & spitting rather than we deny the least part of it: How much more than considering how many witnesses the Lord hath raised up, which having finished their testimony against the Apostasy and usurpation of the man of sin, some in one degree and some in an other, have been killed by the beast, some of old and others of late times, Rev. 11. 3. 7. Lastly, where mention is made of things only seeming unto men just & holy: it must be considered, that it is all one to the conscience of the doer, whither the thing done be so in truth, or but in appearance. And he that either doth that which seemeth unto him unjust and unholy, or passeth by that which seemeth just and holy, sinneth against his own heart, † joh. 3. 20 and if his own heart condemn him, God which is greater than his heart will much more condemn him. If yet thou dost judge a thing commanded a sin, and not to be Mr B. obeyed; for thy help herein, inquire whether that which is wrongfully or sinfully commanded, may not yet nevertheless be without sin obeyed as joab obeyed David in numbering the people. This is as much as if in plain terms you should counsel a Ans. man, to consider whether he may not sin without sin: for what else is it to obey that commandment, which a man judgeth not to be obeyed? A cold comforter are you to a perplexed conscience & an ill counselor, thus to advise men to be bold against the Lord, and to try whether, they can blind their consciences, and harden their hearts, that they may sin without feeling, or fear. The example of joab in obeying David, is impertinent. The case was civil, and in civil affairs many things may lawfully be undergone, which are unlawfully imposed. For example: If the King merely for his pleasure should enjoin Mr B. upon some great penalty to come into the field soldierlike, to draw a sword, shoot, march or the like, the Magistrate might do evil in thus commanding, and yet not Mr B. in obeying: but thus to do in the Church or pulpit in the time of God's worship, were as sinful obedience as were the commandment sinful. All actions ecclesiastical, in or about God's worship, are subordinate to the edification of the Church and to good order; if they tend thereto they are lawful in the commander, if not they are unlawful in him that obeyeth. Besides, David's commandment for numbering the people, was no way unlawful in itself, but upon occasion both lawful & necessary. Numb. 1. 2. & 26. 4. It was only the curiosity or pride, or infidelity of David's heart made the sin, which might hurt himself, but not joab. But had joab judged the thing commanded sin, and not to have been obeyed, he had sinned in obeying, as well as David in commanding. That which Mr B. calls next into question, is, whether the recusant Mr B. Ministers may not for the free preaching of the gospel, yield so far to the evil disposition of the Prelates as to subscribe, and conform unto their ceremonies though they cannot approve of them, nor judge them lawful. For this is the thing M. B. aims at, though he carry the matter something covertly, because he would offend neither party. And to persuade unto this he brings in Paul, checking himself for reviling the high Priest, and observing the legal ceremonies after abolishment, to procure free liberty to preach the gospel, and after Moses granting a bill of divorcement (contrary to the law of marriage) for the very hardness of the people's hearts. To this I answer sundry things, as, first to preach the gospel Ans. upon condition of obedience in that wherein a man either judgeth or suspecteth himself to sin, is nothing less than to preach the gospel freely: though this be in truth that free preaching of the gospel in the Church of England whereof we hear so many loud boasts. And to persuade a man unto this, is, to persuade him to do evil that good may come thereof, as though the Lord stood▪ need of man's sin, for the publishing of his truth, or saving of his elect. The preaching of the gospel is a most excellent thing, and the fruits of it far better than those of Eden (and oh how happy were we, if with exchange of half the days of our lives we might freely publish it to our own nation, for the converting of sinners) yet must no man be so far possessed with the excellency of the object, (as were our first parents with the goodness, beauty, and supposed benefit of the forbidden fruit) as to press unto it by unlawful ways: and for a man to go about to persuade to the practice of a thing by the casual fruits and effects of it, & not in the mean while to clear the way of fear and scruple of sin in the means of attaining the proposed good, is to go about to deceive him whom he persuadeth, and by a bait (as it were) to till his conscience, as a bird into a snare, into most fearful entanglements. And for Paul, as it is a very ungodly suspicion cast upon him, that he should do any thing which he doubted to be sin, or which he did not most assuredly know was pleasing unto God, so is it very untruly affirmed that he did that he did, either as yielding to the evil disposition of men, or to procure free liberty to preach the gospel. He did all things most freely and without any respect to human authority, fulfilling the royal law of love in tendering the weakness of the brethren newly converted from judaism, observing with them the legal rites, & those also made a part of God's worship by them, and that without all probability of sinning, whereof you impeach him. Now for Moses he did not grant, that is, approve of the bill of divorcement, but only permitted it for the avoiding of a greater evil, which civil Magistrates may do in some cases, which notwithstanding no man used without sin. And what doth this better your popish ceremonies? The last thing in question is the case of offence, touching which you make many doubts, where the holy ghost makes none; forgetting your own good admonition, that men should take heed of g●●●ing distinctions, and other evasion through policy or fear of trouble to loose sincerity, where the word is plain. There is not a case in the whole Bible more clear, then that the things called indifferent▪ may and aught to be forborn, for the weak conscience of a brother. Rom. 14 15. 20. 21. 1 Cor. 9 19 20. 21. 22. & 10. 23. 24▪ 28. 29. And yet this clear truth you labour to darken by the mist of man's authority, pretence of good effects, surmises of partiality, humour, and folly in the parties offended, raised out of your own heart. But let us hear your advice. Quaere, Whether it be an offence justly given by thee, or taken without Mr B. just reason of others: thou not offending and they displeased, the fault is their own and thou not chargeable therewith. But you must understand Mr B. that in the unseasonable use of Answer. things in themselves indifferent, there is an offence both given & taken, and so a double sin committed: he that gives the offence sins through want of charity, and he that takes it through want or weakness of faith. And so where actions simply good, do only hurt him that takes offence; and actions simply evil, him that gives it; the use of things indifferent against expediency, hurts & harms and destroys both. Rom. 14. 15. Now the parts of your second inquiry, viz. whether men be offended Mr B. in respect of what themselves know, or butled by affection, disliking of other men's dislike, are insufficient. For men do oft times take offence at things done, and yet neither in respect of their own knowledge Ans. nor of other men's dislike, but merely through want of knowledge and upon ignorance of their christian liberty. And such were the weak brethren spoken of, Rom. 14. 1 Cor. 8. and 9 which how they were to be tendered in their weakness, let the places judge. And for people partially affectionate, or foolishly froward, which is the main point in the 3. Quaere, they are no way to be regarded as weak, but on the contrary to be reproved as wayward & contentious, that folly and sin may not rest upon them. Only let men take heed they judge not uncharitably of their brethren, because they would practise uncharitably towards them, as † 1 Sam. 2●. Nabal reviled David and his men as runagates, because he would deal churlishly with them, and would show them no mercy. In the forth place it is demanded. What authority may do in things external for outward rule in the Mr B. circumstances of things. How colourably you carry all the abominations in your Church Ans. under the shadow of circumstances, and of how great moment even circumstances are in the case of religion I have formerly spoken: let me only add thus much. If a subject should usurp the crown, and exercise regal authority, the difference were but in the circumstance of person, which notwithstanding made the action high treason. Or if a Priest coming to say his evensong should fall a sleep on his desk, it were but a matter of circumstance in respect of time and place, it might lawfully be done in another place, and at another time, yet there & then it were a great profaning of the service book. What sway authority hath in the Church of England, appeareth in the laws of the land, which make the government of the Church alterable at the Magistrate's pleasure: and so the Clergy in their submission to K. Henry 8. do derive, as they pretend, their ecclesiastical jurisdiction from him, and so exercise it. Indeed many of the late Bishops and their Proctors, seeing how monstrous the ministration is of divine things, by an human authority and calling; and growing bold upon the present disposition of the Magistrate, have disclaimed that former title, and do professedly hold their ecclesiastical power and jurisdiction de jure divino, & so consequently by God's word unalterable. Of whom I would demand this one question. What if the King should discharge and expel the present ecclesiastical government, & plant in stead of it the Presbytery or Eldership, would they submit unto the government of the Elders, yea or no? if yea, then were they traitors to the Lord jesus submitting to a government, overthrowing his government, as doth the Praesbyterian government, that which is Episcopal; if no, then how could they free themselves from such imputations of disloyalty to Princes, and disturbance of States, as wherewith they load us & others opposing them. But to the question itself. As the † joh. 18. 36 kingdom of Christ is not of this world, but spiritual, & he a spiritual King: so must the government of this spiritual kingdom under this spiritual King needs be spiritual, & all the laws of it And as Christ jesus hath by the merits of his priesthood * 1 Cor. 6: 20. redeemed as well the body as the soul; so is he also by the sceptre of his Kingdom to rule & reign over both: unto which Christian Magistrates as well as meaner persons, aught to submit themselves, & the more Christian they are, the more meekly to take the yoke of Christ upon them, and the greater authority they have, the more effectually to advance his sceptre over themselves, & their people by all good means. Neither can there be any reason given, why the merits of saints, may not as well be mingled with the merits of Christ for the saving of his Church, as the laws of men with his laws, for the ruling and guiding of it. He is as absolute and as entire a King as he is a Priest, and his people must be as careful to praeserve the dignity of the one, as to enjoy the benefit of the other. The next Quaere, is. Whether authority commanding doth not Mr B. take away the offence which might otherwise be given in a voluntary act. This question is answered affirmatively, by the Bishops & their Ans. adherents, and so with one voice they affirm in their books, pulpits and other public determinations: but herein as palpably flattering the Magistrate, as ever Canonist did the Pope. What more was ever given to the Pope, then that he might dispense with the moral law. And what less is given to the King when by his authority I use things indifferent with offence to my weak brother? Is not love † Rom. 13. 2. the fulfilling of the law? And is it not * Rom. 14. 13. against the law of love to use things indifferent with offence? which must the more carefully be avoided, considering the effects it draws with it, which are not only the grief (which were too much) but even the destruction of him for whom Christ died, ver. 5. 20. 1 Cor. 8. 11. Only he which can strengthen the weak faith (which is the cause of the offence) can take away the offence, and 'stablish him that is weak, Rom. 14. 4. Men may and must use means for that purpose, and not nourish the weak in their weakness, but bear them they must in love, and much love will have much patience. Lastly, (for I pass over the 5. Quaere as comprehended in those which go before) where you advise men to study, & again to study to be quiet, and to follow those things which concern peace: it is needful counsel and again needful, considering what unquiet spirits are to be found in all places. Only let men in their counsels (which you leave out) join with peace “ Rom. 14. 19 Heb. 12 14. edification, and holiness as the scriptures teach, and so * jer. 15. 19 Pro. 12. 20. Mat. 5. 9 separating the precious from the vile, they shallbe to us as God's mouth: and let their peace be in the word of righteousness, & the joy of the counsellors of peace shallbe upon them, and the blessing of peacemakers upon their heads. Of Mr B. dissuasive probabilities. THe next thing that comes into consideration, is, certain probabilities & likelihoods, as the author calls them, consisting for the most part of personal imputations, & di graceful calumniations, whereby he labours to withdraw the hearts of the simple from the truth of God, unto disobedience, as Absalon did the people into rebellion against the K. by slandering his government. 2 San. 15. But if Mr Bern. followed his sound judgement in this boo●, as he professeth in the Preface, and so laboured to lead others, he would neither go himself, nor send them by unstable guesses and likelihoods, as he doth. The truth of God goes not by peradventures, neither needs it any such paper-shot as likelihoods are to assault the adversary withal. The word of God which is * 2 Ti●. 3. 16. 17. profitabl● to teach, to reprove, to correct, and to instruct in righteousness, is sufficient to furnish the man of God with weapons spiritual, and those “ 2 Cor. 10. ●●. mighty through God to cast down strong holds, and whatsoever high thing is exalted against the knowledge of God. And if M. B. speak according to the Law and Prophets, his words are solid arguments, if not, there is neither light in him, nor truth in them: and so where truth is wanting must some like-truthes, or images of truth be laid in the place, like the image in David's bed to deceive them that sought after him, when he himself was wanting. 1 Sa●. 19 13. The first probability that our way is not good, is. The novelty thereof differing from all the best reformed Churches ●● ●. Likelihood. Christendom. It is no novelty to hear men plead custom, when they want Answer. truth. So the heathen Philosophers reproached Paul as † Act. 17. 19 a bringer of new doctrine: so do the Papists discountenance the doctrine and profession of the Church of England, yea even at this day, very many of the people in the Land, use to call Popery the old law, & the profession there made, the new law. But we for our parts, as we do believe by the word of God, that the things we teach are not new, but old truths renewed: so are we no less fully persuaded, that the Church constitution in which we are set, is cast in the Apostolical and primitive mould, and not one day nor hour younger in the nature and form of it, than the first Church of the new Testament. And whether a people all of them separated, & sanctified (so far as men by their fruits can, or aught to judge) or a mingled generation of the seed of the woman and seed of the serpent be more ancient; the government of sundry Elders or Bishops with joint authority over one Church, or of one national, Provincial, or Diocesan Bishop over many hundred or thousand Churches; the spiritual prayers conceived in the heart of the Ministers according to the present occasions, or necessities of the Church, or the English service book; the simple administration of the Sacraments, according to the words of institution, or pompous and carnal compliments of cap, cope, surplice, cross, godfathers, kneeling and the like mingled withal; I do even refer it to the report of Mr B. own conscience, be it never so partial. Now for the differences betwixt the best reformed Churches (as Mr B. calls them, granting thereby his own to be the worst) and us, they are extant in print, being few in number, & those none of the greatest weight. But what a volume would these differences make betwixt those reformed Churches, and the unreformed Churches of England, if they were exactly set down. And yet for the corruptions reproved by us in the reformed Church where we live, I do understand by them of good knowledge, and sincerity, that the most or greatest of them are rather in the execution then in the constitution of the Church. Our differences from the reformed Churches, Mr B. aggravates by two reasons. 1. The first is our separation from them, 2. the 2. certain terms of disgrace uttered by Mr Barrow & Mr Greenwood against the Eldership: which Mr Bernard will have us disclaim. For the first, it is not truly affirmed that we separate from them. What our judgement is of them, our confessions of faith and other writings do testify; and for our practice, as we cannot possibly join unto them, would we never so fain, being utterly ignorant of their language; so neither do we separate from them, save in such particulars as we esteem evil; which we also shall endeavour to manifest unto them so to be, as occasion and means shallbe offered. And secondly, for the taxations laid by Mr B. and M G. upon the Eldership, or other practice in the reformed Churches, wherein they were any way excessive we both have disclaimed, & always are and shallbe ready to disclaim the same. Only I entreat the godly reader to consider, that those things were not spoken by them otherwise, then in respect of those corruptions in the Eldership & else where, which they deemed Antichristian, and evil. Of which respective phrase of speech more hereafter. Lastly if it be likely that our way is not good for the difference it hath from the reformed Churches, and that th● greatness of the difference appears by the hard terms given by some of us against the government there used, th●n surely i● is much more Against Scotizing & Genevating Ministers. likely, that the way of the unreformed Church of England is not good, which differeth far more from the reformed Church's: which difference appears not only in most reproachful terms used by the prelates and their adherents against the seekers of reformation comparing them to all vile haeretiques, and seditious persons, O. O. his picture of a Puritan. but in cruel persecutions raised against them, and greater than against Papists or Atheists. The second mark by which Mr B. guesseth our way not good is, for that it agreeth so much with the ancient schismatics condemned 2 Likelihood. in former ages by holy and learned men, Luciferians, Donatists, Novattans and Audians. Can our way both be a novelty & new devise, and yet agree so Answ. well with the ancient schismatics condemned in former ages? Contradictions cannot be both true, but may both be false, as these are. The parties to whom Mr B. likeneth us were condemned not only for schism but for heresy also, as appears in Epiphanius, Austin, Eusebius and others. And as we have nothing, no not in s●ew like unto some of them, nor in truth unto any of them in the things blame worthy in them, so if Mr B. were put to justify by the word of God the condemnation of some of them, it would put him to more trouble than he is aware of. The Audians dissented from the Nicene Council about their Easter tyme. The Luciferians held the soul of man to be ex traduce, and were therefore accounted Haeretiques, as indeed it was too usual a thing in those days to reject men for haeretiques upon too light causes. And for the Donatists unto whom Mr Gifford & others would so fain fashion us, Mr B. and all others may see the dissimilitude betwixt them & us in the refutation of that supposed consimilitude. 3. Likelihood. A third evil for which Mr B. would bring our cause into suspicion is. The matter of defending our opinions, and proving our assertions by Mr B. strange and forced expositions of scriptures. Where he also notes in the margin that, the truth needs no such ill means to maintain it. Answ. What the means are by which the Prelacy against which we witness is maintained, all men know. The flattering of superiors, the oppressing of inferiors, the scoffing, reviling, imprisoning, & persecuting unto banishment and death of such as oppose it, are the weapons of the Prelate's warfare, by which they defend their tottering Babel. And were it not for the arm of ●lesh by which they hold, and to which they trust, they and their pomp would vanish away like smoke before the wind, so little weight have they or theirs in the consciences of any. But let us see wherein we misled the reader by deceitful allegations of scriptures. 1. In quoting scriptures by the way that is for things coming in upon occasion, Mr B. but nothing to the main point, etc. Answ. And wherefore is this deceitful dealing thus to allege the scriptures? Because the simple reader is hereby made believe, that all is spoken for the question controverted. He is simple & careless also that will not search the scriptures before he believe that they are brought to prove, if he any way suspect it, which who so doth can not be deceived, as is here insinuated. It were to be wished we both † Isa. 19 18. spoke and wrote the language of Canaan and none other, and not only to use, but even to note the scripture phrase soberly may be to the information and edification of the reader. 2. By urging commandments, admonitio●s, exhortations, dehortations, Mr B. reprehensions, and godly examples to prove a falsity. What is falsity but that which is contrary to truth? and so * joh. 17. 17 the Answ. word of God being truth, whatsoever is contrary unto any part of it whither commandment, admonition, exhortation etc. is false, so far forth as it is contrary. The similitude you take from a natural child who for his disobedience is not to be reputed a false child but no good child, is like the rest of the your similitudes. The proportion holds not. Men may have such children as ever were, are and willbe disobedient to their dying day, & yet they remain their children whether they will or no: but if any of God's children prove disobedient, and will not be disclaimed, he can dischilde them for bastards as they are, and the true children of the Devil. joh. 8. 44. 3. In alleging Scriptures not to prove that for which to the simple Mr. Ber. it seems to be alleged but that which is without controversy, taking the thing in question for granted. For this I take to be his meaning, though he express it ill. The instance he brings of one of us citing Act. 20. 21. to prove Answ that all truth is not taught in the Church of England, is, I am persuaded (if not worse) mistaken by him. For who would bring Paul's example to show what the Ministers of England do, and not rather what they should do? what they do is known well enough, and how both they in preaching the will of God, and the people in obeying it, are stinted at the Bishop's pleasure. 4 By bringing in places setting forth the invisible Church and holiness of the members, to set forth the visible Church by, as being proper thereto, as 1 Pet. 2. 9 10. That the Apostle here speaketh not of the invisible, but of the visible Church, appeareth not by our bare affirmation, which we might set 'gainst Mr B. naked contradiction, yea though he bring in D. Allison in the margin to countenance the matter, but by these reasons. 1. Peter being † Gal. 2. 7. the Apostle of the jews wrote unto them whose Apostle he was, & whom he knew dispersed through Pontus, Galatia, etc. 1 Pet. 1. 1. But Peter was not the Apostle of the invisible, but of the visible Church which he knew so dispersed, where the invisible Church is only known unto God, 2 Tim. 2. 19 2. The Apostle useth the words of Moses to the visible Church of the jews, Ex. 19 6. which do therefore well agree to the visible Church under the gospel, whose excellency, graces and holiness, do surmount the former by many degrees. 3. Peter writeth to a Church wherein were Elders and a flock depending upon them, to be fed & governed by them, 1 Pet ●. 1. 2. 3. which to affirm of the invisible Church is not only a visible, but even a palpable error. 4. The Apostle writeth to them which had the word preached amongst them, Chap. 1. 25. And this Mr B. himself, pag. 118. 119. makes a note and testimony of the visible Church, and to that purpose quotes the former chap. v. 23. as he doth also this very chap. ver. 5. which is the same with v. 9 10. to prove the form of the visible Church. And thus I hope it appears to all men upon what good grounds this man thus boldly leadeth us with deceitful dealing in the scriptures. And this instance, I desire the reader the more diligently to observe as being singled out by Mr B. as a picked witness against us, & countenanced by D. Allisons' concurring testimony, but especially because it points out the Apostolic Churches, clean in contrary colours to the English Synagogues, being unholy and profane; and this is the cause why Mr B. and others are so loath to have this Scripture meant of the visible Church. 5. By inferences, and references, as if this be one this must follow, and Mr B. this Mr B. calls a deceivable and crooked way for the entangling of the simple. To this I have † pag. 20. answered formerly, and do again answer, that Answ. necessary consequences & inferences are both lawful & necessary. If Mr B. had to deal with a Papist against Purgatory or with an Anabaptist for the baptizing of Infants, he should be compelled (except I be deceived) to draw his arrows out of this quiver. And what are consequences regulated by the word (which * 1 Tim. 4 4. 5. sanctifieth all creatures) but that sanctified use of reason? & will any reasonable man deny the use and discourse of reason? “ joh. 20▪ 23. If all the things which jesus did had been written, the world could not have contained the books: & if all the duties which lie upon the Church to perform had been written in express terms, (as Mr B. requires) a world of worlds could not contain the books which should have been written. Neither are inferences & references justly made, any way to be accounted windings, but plain passages to the truth, trodden before us by the Lord jesus and all his holy Apostles, which scarce allege one scripture of three out of Moses and the Prophets but by way of inference, as all that will, may see. But the truth is Mr Bern. hath so many times been driven to so gross absurdities by a consequence or two about this cause, as he utterly abhors the very memory of all consequences, & it seems would have it enacted, that never consequence should be more urged. To conclude, whatsoever it pleaseth this man to suggest, the main grounds, for which we stand touching the communion, government, ministry, and worship of the visible Church, are expressly contained in the scriptures and that (as we are persuaded) so plainly, that as like Habbakuks vision, he * Hab. 2. 2 that runs may read them. The 4. guess against us is. That we have not the approbation of any of the reformed Churches for ou● The 4. Likelihood course, and that where our Confession of faith is without allowance by them, they give on the contrary the right hand of fellowship to the Church of England. This is the same in substance with the first instance of probability, Ans. and that which followeth in the next place the same with them both. And Mr Bern. by his so ordinary pressing us with human testimonies shows himself to be very barren of divine authority: as hath been truly noted by another. Nature teacheth every creature, in all danger to fly first and oftenest to the chief instruments either of offence, or defence, wherein it trusteth, as the But to his horn, the Boar to his tusk, and the bird unto her wing: right so this man shows wherein his strength lies, and wherein he trusts most, by his so frequent and usual shaking the horn and whetting the tusk of mortal man's authority against us. But for the reformed Churches the truth ●s they neither do imagine, no nor will easily be brought to believe that the frame of the Church of England stands as it doth: neither have they any mind to take knowledge of those things, or to enter into examination of them. The approbation which they give of you (as Mr A. hath observed) as indeed it is of special observation) is in respect of such general truths of doctrine, as wherein we also for the most part acknowledge you: which notwithstanding you deny in a great measure in the particulars, and practise. But touching the gathering, & governing of the Church, which are the main heads controverted betwixt you & us; they give you not so much as the left hand of fellowship, but do on the contrary turn their backs upon you. The difference betwixt you and them in the gathering and constituting of Churches is as great as betwixt copulsive conformity unto the service book and ceremonies, which is your estate, and voluntary submission unto the gospel by which all & every member of them is joined to the Church, and as is betwixt the reign of one Lord Bishop over many Churches, and the government of a Presbytery or company of Elders over one. And if you would take view of this difference nearer home, do but cast your eyes to your next neighbours of Scotland & there you shall see the most zealous Christians choosing rather to lose liberty, country, and life then to stoop to a far more easy yoke than you bear. Yea what need I send you out of your own horizon? The implacable & mortal hatred the Prelates bear unto the Ministers and people wishing the government and Ministry received in the reformed Churches proclaims aloud the utter enmity betwixt them, & your unreformed Church of England, of which I pray you hear with patience what some of your own have testified. Those that will needs be our Pastors and spiritual fathers Answer to D. bancroft's slanders. are become beasts as the Prophet jeremy saith. And if we should open our mouths, to sue for the true shepherds and overseers indeed unto whose direction we ought to be committed, the rage of these wolves is such as this endeavour would almost be the price of our lives. And do these Churches like sisters go hand in hand together as is pretended? Now for us, where Mr B. affirmeth that we published our confession but without allowance, if I saw not his frowardness in the things he knows, I should marvayl at his boldness in the things whereof he is ignorant, we published the confession of our faith to the Christian universities in the low countries and else where, entreating them in the Lord, either to convince our errors by the word of God (if so any might be found,) or if our testimony in their judgements agreed with the same word, to approve it either by writing, or silence, as they thought good. Now what University, Church, or person amongst them hath once enterprised our conviction? which without doubt some would have done (as with such haeretiques or schismatics as arise amongst them) had they found cause? Thus much of the learned abroad: in the next place Mr B. draws us to the learned at home, from whose dislike of us he takes his fifth Likelihood, which he thus frameth. The condemnation of this way by our divines both living and dead, The 5. Likelihood against whom either for godliness of life, or truth of doctrine, otherwise the● for being their opposites, they can take no exception. No mervayl: we may not admit of parties for judges: how is it possible we should be approved of them in the things wherein we witness against them? And if this Argument be good or likely, then is it likely that neither the reformists have the truth in the Church of England, nor the Prelates, for there are many and those both godly and learned, which in their differences do oppose, and that very vehemently the one the other. Now, as for mine own part, I do willingly acknowledge the learning & godliness of most of the persons named by Mr B. & do honour the very memory of some of them, so do I neither think them so learned, but they might err; nor so godly, but in their error they might reproach the truth they saw not. I do indeed confess to the glory of God, and mine own shame, that a long time before I entered this way, I took some taste of the truth in it by some treatises published in justification of it, which (the L. knoweth were sweet as honey unto my mouth; and the very principal thing, which for the time quenched all further appetite in me, was the overvaluation which I made of the learning and holiness of these, and the like persons, blushing in myself to have a thought of pressing one hair breadth before them in this thing, behind whom I knew myself to come so many miles in all other things; yea and even of late times, when I had entered into a more serious consideration of these things and (according to the measure of grace received) searched the scriptures, whether they were so or no, and by searching found much light of truth, yet was the same so dimmed and overclouded with the contradictions of these men and others of ●he like note, that had not the truth been in my heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones jer. 20. 9 had never broken those bonds of ●lesh and blood, wherein I was so straitly tied, but had suffered the light of God to have been put out in mine own unthankful heart by other men's darkness. This reverence every man stands bound to give to the graces of God in other men, that in his differences from them, he be not suddenly nor easily persuaded, but that being jealous of his own heart, he undertake the examination of things & so proceed, with fear, and trembling, & so having tried all things, keep that which is good. 1. Thes. 5. 21. So shall he neither wrong the graces of God in himself, not in others. But on the otherside for a man so far to suffer his thoughts to be conjured into the circle of any mortal man or men's judgement, as either to fear to try what is offered to the contrary, in the balance of the sanctuary, or finding it to bear weight, to fear to give sentence on the Lord's side, yea though it be against the mighty, this is to honour men above God, and to advance a throne above the throne of Christ, who is Lord and King for ever. And to speak that in this case which by doleful experience I myself have found, many of the most forward professors in the kingdom are well nigh as superstitiously addicted to the determinations of their guides and teachers, as the ignorant Papists unto theirs, accounting it not only needle's curiosity, but even intolerable arrogancy to call into question the things received from them by tradition. But how much better were it for all men to lay aside these & the like prejudices, that so they might understand the things which concern their peace, and seeing with their own eyes, might live by their own faith. And for these famous men here named by Mr B. (with whose oppositions as with Zidkijahs' horns of iron he would push us here and every where); as we do bear their reproofs with patience, & acknowledge their worths without envy, or detraction, so do we know they were but men, and so through human frailty might be abused as well (or rather as ill) to support Antichrist in a measure, as others before them have been, (though godly, and learned, as they.) It will not be denied but the fathers (as they are called) Ignatius, Irenaeus, Tertullian▪ Cyprian, Ambrose, jerom, Austin, and the rest were both godly and learned; yet no man (if he have but even saluted them) can be ignorant, what way (though unwittingly) they made for the advauncement of Antichrist which followed after them: And if they notwithstanding their learning and godliness thus ushered him into the world, why might not others (and that more likely) though learned and godly as the former, help to bear up his train? espcially considering, that as his rising was not, so neither could his fall be perfected at once. And for us, what do we more or otherwise for the most part, then walk in those ways into which diverse of the persons by Mr B. named, have directed us by the word of God, in manifesting unto us by the light thereof what the ministry, government, worship, and fellowship of the Gospel ought to be? we then being taught, and believing, that the word of God is a light & a lantern not only to our eyes, but to our feet & paths (as the psalmist speaketh) Psal. 119. 105. cannot possibly conceive how we should justly be blamed by these men for observing the ordinances which themselves not only acknowledged, but contended for, as appointed by Christ's testament to be kept inviolable till his appearing, as some of them have expressly testified. To conclude, let not the Christian reader cast our persons, & the persons of our opposites whither these or others, in the balance together, but rather our cause, and reasons with their oppositions and the grounds of them, and so with a steady hand, & unpartial ●y weigh and poise cause with cause, that so the truth of God may not be prejudiced by men's persons, nor held in respect of them. And to your marginal note, viz. that ●●ne of us whom you call guides did fall to this course before we were in trouble and could not enjoy our liberty as we desired, I do only answer this one thing, that all and every one of us might have enjoyed both our liberty, and peace at the same woeful rate with you and your fellows. The Lord's judgement giving sentence with him and his 6. Likelihood. Church against us. But wherein appears that Mr B? ●. By the blessing of God (you tell us) upon your ministry, by which people Mr B. are won truly to sanctification of life, and that we (on ●●e contrary) work but upon the labours of other men. 1. Considering the multitude of Ministers in the kingdom Answer. and their long continuance in their Ministry, there is in the most parts of the land no such cause of so loud boasts as are h●re made. There is nothing more common both in the sermons and writings of the forwarder sort, than their complaints how little good their preaching hath done, howsoever with us for advantage they plead the contrary. But let it be as Mr B. saith that they win men to sanctification of life, and that we work but upon their labours, his own words shall judge him, wherein he doth directly overthrow that he would establish, & establish that he would so fain overthrow. The Ministers of the Church of England do win men to true sanctification of life, than the people over whom they are set are not truly sanctified, than not true saints, than no true members of the Church: and therefore that no true body of Christ consisting of such members. We work upon other men's labours: and so true ordinary Elders do: whose office stands in feeding, and not in begetting. The Elders which the Apostles ordained were set over them which † Act. 14. 23. believed in the Lord; and* the overseers or Bishops made by the holy Ghost were over such a ●lock, as all whereof were purchased with the blood of Christ, (so far as men could judge.) We do not despise Act. 20. 28. the conversion of a sinner (as Mr B. odionsly traduceth us,) but do with men and Angels bless the Lord for that mercy upon ourselves & others, only weedare not stand Ministers to an unconverted people nor dispense unto them the holy things of God, to which we know they have no right, how bold soever Mr B. and his brethren make with the Lord and his ordinances this way. And so I pass to the second proof. 2 The blessing of God assisting us walking in our way with the reformed Mr B. Churches hath from Luther's time made prosperous our way by him, and other glorious instruments, and in few years spread the truth to many nations, etc. He that would not in the words before going work upon the Answer. labours of other men, will now make boast of them: but in stead of proving his likelihoods by this dealing, he is justly to be reproved of two falsehoods. The one is, that he will bear the world in hand that his way, & the way of the reformed Churches are one, whereas the ways of the Church of England wherein we forsake her, do directly and ex diametro, cross and thwart the ways of the reformed Churches: as appears in these three main heads. 1. The reformed Churches are gathered of a free people joined together by voluntary profession without compulsion of human laws. On the contrary the Church of England consists of a people forced together violently by the laws of men into their Provincial, Diocesan and Parishional Churches (as their houses stand) be they never so unwilling or unfit. 2. The reformed Churches do renounce the Ministry of the Church of Engl: as she doth theirs: not admitting of any by virtue of it to charge of souls: (as they speak) where on the contrary all the masse-preists made in Queen mary's days, which would say their book-service in English, were continued Ministers by the same ordination which they received from the Popish Prelates. 3. The government by Archbishops, Lord Bishops, and their substitutes in the Church of England is abhorred and disclaimed in the reformed Churches as Antichristian: as is on the contrary the Presbyterian government (in use there) by the Church of England refused, as anabaptistical, and seditious. Now if Mr B. can at once walk in so many & so contrary ways, he had need have as many feet as the Polypus hath. Secondly, understanding by his Church's way such doctrines & ordinances as wherein we oppose it it is an empty boast to affirm that the same is spread into other nations. Which are the nations, or what may be their names, which either do reteyn or have received the Prelacy, Ministry, service book, canons and confused commixture of all sorts now in use in the Church of England? But Mr B. having (as he boasts) God, Angels, and men on his side proceeds in the next place to plead against us Gods judgements, who seemeth (as he saith) from the first beginning to be offended with our course. And intending principally in this whole discourse to oppress us with contumelies, & by them to alienate all men's affections from us, he raveth together into this place, as into a dunghill of slander and misreport whatsoever he thinks may make us and our cause stink in the nostrils of the reader. And so forging some things in his own brain, and enforcing other things (true in themselves) with most odious aggrevations, he presents us to the view of the world, with such personal infirmities, and human frailties written in our foreheads, as the Lord hath le●t upon the sons of men for their humbling. And the world wanting spiritual eyes & beholding the Church of Christ with the eyes of flesh & blood, & seeing it compassed about with so many infirmities, & falling into so many & manifold trials and temptations, is greatly offended, & passeth unrighteous judgement upon the servants of God, and blasphemeth their most holy profession. But let all men learn not to behold the Church of Christ with carnal eyes, which like fearful spies will discourage the people, but with the eyes of faith and good conscience, which like joshua and Caleb will speak good of the promised Land, the spiritual Canaan, the Church of God. But to the point. That Mr B. may make sure work he strikes at the head, and whetteth his tongue like a sword, and shooteth bitter words like arrows at such principal men, as God hath raised up in this cause, whereof some have persevered, and stood fast unto death, others have fallen away in the day of temptation, whose end hath been worse ●hen their beginning. The first person in whom he instanceth is one Boulton, touching whom he writeth thus: that he being the first broacher of this way Mr B. came to as fearful an end as judas did: adding thereupon, that God suffereth not his special instruments called forth otherwise then after a common course to come to such ends. To this I do first answer, that neither this man was nor any other Answ. of us is called forth by the Lord otherwise then after a common course: even that which is common to all God's people, which is to come out of Babylon, and to bring their best gifts to Zion for the building of the Lords temple there. It is true that Boulton was (though not the first in this way) an Elder of a separated Church in the beginning of Queen Elizabeth's days, and falling away from his holy profession recanted the same at Paul's Cross, & afterwards hung himself as judas did▪ And what marvel if he which had betrayed Christ in his truth, as judas did in his person, came to the same fearful end which judas did? Nay rather the patience and long suffering of God is to be mervayled at that others also, who either have embraced this truth and after fallen from it, or refused to submit unto it when they have both seen and approved it, have not been pursued by the same revengeful hand of God. And for the promise of God's presence with his, Gen. 12. 3. Math. 28. 20. jos. 1. 9 it must ever be taken conditionally, viz. whilst they are with him and do his work faithfully as they ought, and no further. Now touching Brown it is true which Mr B. affirmeth that as he forsook the Lord so the Lord forsook him in his way: and so he did his own people Israel many a tyme. And if the Lord had not forsaken him he had never so returned back into Egypt as he did to live of the spoils of it, as is said he speaketh. And for the wicked things (which Mr B. affirmeth) he did in this way, it may well be as he saith▪ and the more wicked things he committed in this course, the ●esse like he was to continue long in it, and the more like to return again to his proper centre the Church of England where he should be sure to find companions enough in any wickedness, as it came to pass. Lastly to let pass the universal Apostasy of all the Bishops, Ministers, students in the universities, yea and of the whole Church of England in Queen mary's time (a handful only excepted in comparison) which the Papists might more colourably urg against Mr B. than he some few instances against us) the fall of † Mat. 26. 14. 19 & 47. 48. 49. & 27. 3. 4. 5. judas an Apostle, of * Act. 6. 5. with Rev. ● 15. Nicholas one of the first 7 Deacons, of † 2 Tim. 4. 10. Demas one of Paul's special companions in the Ministry, do sufficiently teach us that there is no cause so holy, nor calling so excellent, which is not subject to the invasion of painted, and deceitful hyppocrites, whose service the Lord notwithstanding may use for a time till their whyting be worn of, & then leave them to their own deceavable ●usts, which will work their most woeful downfall: thereby warning his people not to repose too much upon any mortal man in whom there is no steadfastness, but to cast their eyes upon him a●one and upon his truth which changeth not. Of Mr Barrow and Mr Greenwoods' spirit of railing (as this man raileth against them) in another place. Only let the indifferent reader judge whither Mr B. in blazing abroad the personal infirmities of his adversaries without any occasion, neither sparing the living nor the dead, have not come to the very highest pitch of the most natural railing that may be. A practice which all sober minded men do abhor from. The next that comes in Mr B. way are the two brethren Mr Francis & Mr George johnson, whose contentions he exagge●ateth what he can to make both their persons and cause odious. True it is that George johnson together with his father taking his part, were excommunicated by the Church for contention arising ●t the first upon no great occasion, whereupon many bitter and reproachful terms were uttered both in word and writing, George becoming (as Mr B. chargeth him) a disgraceful libeler. It is to us just cause of humiliation all the days of our lives, ●hat we have given and do give by our differences such advantages ●o them which seek occasion against us to blaspheme the truth: ●hough this may be a just judgement of God upon others which ●●ek offences, that seeking they may find them to the hardening of their hearts in evil. But let men turn their eyes which way soever ●hey will, and they shall see the same scandals. Look to the first ●nd best Churches planted by the Apostles themselves, and be●old † Rom. 16. 17. 1 Cor. 1. 11. & 3. 3. G●l. 5. 1●. dissensions, scandal, strife, biting one of another. About two hundred years after Christ, what a styrr was there about mooneshyne in water (as we speak) betwixt the East and West Churches, when Victor Bishop of Rome excommunicated the Churches in Asia for not keeping the jewish feast of Easter at the same time with the Church of Rome? And to come nearer our own times, how bitter was Luther against Swinglius & Calvin in the matter of the Sacrament? & how implacable is the hatred at this day of them whom they call Lutherans against the followers of the other parties? Take yet one instance more and in it a view of the very height of human frailty this way. The exiled Church at Frankford in Queen mary's days bred and nourished within itself such contentious, as that one accused another to the Magistrate of treason, whereupon Mr Knox was compelled to fly for fear of trouble. I could also allege to the present purpose the state of the reformed Churches amongst which we live, whose violent oppositions, & fiery contentions do far exceed all ours: but I take no delight in writing these things, neither do I think the needle's dissensions which have been amongst us the less evil because they are so common to us with others, but these things I have laid down to make it appear, that Mr B. here useth none other weapon against us then jews, and Pagans might have done against Christians, and Papists against such as held the truth against them, yea and then Atheists and men of no religion might take up against all the professions and religions in the world. And (to go no further) the irreconcilable enmity betwixt the Prelates & reformists about cap, surplice, cross and the like, (which the patrons of them acknowledge trifles) might well have stopped Mr B. mouth from upbraiding any with fiery contentions upon small occasions. And touching the heavy sentence of excommunication, by which the father and brother were delivered up to the Devil, as Mr B. speaketh, I desire the reader to consider, that, if excommunication be (as indeed it is) so heavy a sentence and that by it the party sentenced be delivered over to the Devil, the Church of England is in heavy case which plays with excommunications as children do with rattles. And to allude to the word Mr B. useth, in what a devilish case are either▪ the Prelates and convocation house which have † Can. 4. 6. 7. 8. ipso facto excommunicated all that speak or deal against their State, Ceremonies & servis book, since the curse causeless falls upon the head of him from whom it comes, or the reformists, (whereof M. B. would be one by fits) & such as seek for and enterprise reformation? And for the particular in hand, howsoever it may seem an odious thing unto the natural man, which savours not the things of God, nor the unpartial ordinances of the Lord jesus, and would be a matter of wonder that a man should censure, or consent to the censuring of his father or brother, in the Church of England, where a good word of a friend or a small bribe may stay the excommunication of the grossest offender, yet if there be just cause (though with extraordinary sorrow for the occasion) † ' Math. 10 37. Christ in his ordinance must be preferred before father and brother, yea & mother & sister also. Yea & it shall be the seal of his ministery upon that son which in the observance of the word of the Lord, and in the keeping Deut. 33 8. 9 of his covenant saith unto his father, mother, brother, yea & own children, I know you not. The next Mr. B. objecteth is Mr Burnet, who, died of the plague in prison, whether he was committed by the Archprelate. And so did Mr Holland and Mr Parker in the same City at the same time, as I remember: and so did junius and Trel●atius the two divinity professors at Leyden at an other time upon the same infection. And was the plague God's fearful correcting rod upon these men because their religion was false, or rather would any man knowing the scriptures and the Lords dispensations towards his Church argue as this man doth? * If judgement thus begin at God's house, what shall " 1 Pet. 4. 17. the end of them be which obey not the gospel of God? But if Mr B. will bring against us all the persons which the Bishops have killed in their prisons by this and the like means (as David did Vrijah by the sword of the Amonites) he may overthwelm us with witnesses: but his argument shallbe much what of the same nature with that of the Caian haeretiques, which affirm that Cain was a good man, and conceived by a superior power unto Abel, because he prevailed against him, and slew him. Lastly for Mr Smyth, as his instability & wantonness of wit is his sin, & our cross, so let M. B. & all others take heed that it be not their hardening in evil. Mr B. in proceeding to point out the hand of God writing heavy things against us, chargeth us (by Mr Whytes testimony) with such notable crimes, and detestable uncleannesses, as from which they in the Mr B. Church of England either truly fearing God, or but making an apparent sh●w thereof are so praeserved by God, as they cannot be tainted with such evils, as some of us oft times fall into. As the witness well ●its the cause and person alleging him, who (according to the Proverb) may ask his fellow, etc. so have his slanders been answered as Mr Bernard knows, whereof it seems the party himself is ashamed, and so might Mr B. have been, had he not been shameless in accusing the brethren. Now for the things objected, it is first to be noted how Mr B. affirmeth, that none with them either truly fearing God, o● making an apparent show thereof, falls into such notable crimes, etc. wherein he acknowledgeth that a great part of the Church of Engl: neither truly fears God, not makes apparent show of it. How then are all of them saints by calling, and where is that profession of faith for which they are to be held true members of the Church? And what detestable crimes the members of the Church of England fall into, (if there were none other testimony) the very gallows, & gibbets in every country declare sufficiently, upon which for treason, witchcraft, incest, buggery, rape, murders and the like, the members of that Church (so living and dying) do receive condign punishment: Where with us if any such enormities arise (as what temptations have befallen any we are subject unto the same) those monsters (without their answerable repentance) are by the power of Christ cut of from the body, & do for the most part return to their proper element the English synagogue. But what if all were true which Mr B. avoucheth, what advantage hath he more against us then the heathen Corinthians had against the Church there, where * 1 Cor. 5. 1. such fornication was found, as was not once named among the Gentiles? Mr B. having thus handled (as you see) some particular, and principal persons, proceeds to set upon the whole body in general, as if with the accuser of the brethren he had obtained liberty to strike the same from the crown of the head to the sole of the foot with the boils and borches of reproach: & therefore writeth that Mr B. If men be but inclinable to this way, they judge the Minister to have lost the power of his Ministry, wherein the fault is in the alteration of their own affections, and if they be once entered into it, they are then so bewitched, as that where before they were humble and tractable, they then become proud and wilful, where before they could with understanding discern betwixt cause and cause, they then lick up all that comes from themselves as Oracles though never so absurd, where before they could feel in themselves lively marks of the children of God, & so judge of others, they then are persuaded against former faith to think that neither themselves had, nor others have any outward marks of the children of God. Let the reader here observe in the first place that Mr B. accounts Ans. all them inclinable to this way which dislike comformity & subscription in the Ministers; for them only D. Downame (whose Epistle before his second sermon he quotes in the margin) intendeth, & they only are the men which judge the confirming Ministers to have lost the power of their Ministry. And that their judgement is most sound generally of such Ministers as having formerly refused ceremonies & subscription do afterward bow unto the same, all men of understanding do discern. To the challenge of pride and wilfulness upon them in this way though before they were humble and tractable I do answer, that as true humility is ever commendable so is there also a sinful subjection and submission of mind, by which spiritual tyrants according to their fleshly wisdom in voluntary religion would rule over the consciences of the simple, of which the Apostle warneth us, Col. 2. 18. which superstitious humility or humble superstition if the servants of God begin to shake of & to stand for that liberty so dearly bought by Christ, and so highly commended by the Apostles of Christ, then begin these imperious Masters to rage, thinking by reproaches to compel them again under that subjection, in which by former delusions they could not contain them. Thus dealt the bloody Bishops with the servants of God in Queen Mary's days, calling them proud, wilful, conceited, & what evil not? and very well do the like accusations become Mr B. mouth in the like case. Whether our opinions (which we are charged by Mr B. to lick up as Oracles) be absurd or no, will appear in the discussing of them in the sequel of the book: in the mean while this is most true and undeniable, that a great part of the spleen uttered against us in this invective grew from this very cause, that sundry of his hearers would not lick up whatsoever he powered out unto them though bitter as gall: as that Ministers were not brethren properly, that the Church had some power to excommunicate because the Minister (as the officials executioner) might read the sentence, that the Churchwardens were Elders, the midwyves widows, and many the like, which to reckon up is to confute sufficiently. Lastly it is a great wrong which Mr B. offereth us in affirming, that if we be once in this fraternity (as he scoffeth at our holy covenant) we then dislike our former graces, and are content to be persuaded against our Mr B. former faith and feeling in ourselves of the lively marks of the children of God, & all because we were as a dear without the compass of our Park, as he speaketh. We do with all thankfulness to our God acknowledge, and with Answ. much comfort remember those lively feelings of God's love, & former graces wrought in us, & that one special grace amongst the rest by which we have been enabled to draw ourselves into visible Covenant, and holy communion. Yea with such comfort and assurance do we call to mind the Lords work of old this way in us, as we doubt not but our salvation was sealed up unto our consciences by most infallible marks and testimonies (which could not deceive) before we conceived the least thought of separation; and so we hope it is with many others in the Church of Engl. yea and of Rome too. And the more ample measure of grace, and fullness of assurance that any man hath received of the Lord, the more carefully is he to endeavour in all good conscience the knowledge & obedience of all and every one of the holy commandments of God, and not to satisfy himself in his present feelings, thinking his salvation sure enough, and so his obedience full enough (for this were to serve God for wages as hypocrites do) but rather with the Apostle † Phi. 3. 13. 14. forgetting those things which are behind, and forcing to those things which are before, let him follow hard to the mark for the price of the high calling of God in Christ jesus. And whatsoever Mr B. judgeth of a deer without the Park pale wherein he should be, sure it is that he is none of Christ's sheep (visibly or in respect of men) which is without Christ's sheepfold. For * joh. 10. 1● there is one sheepsould, and one shepherd. The last conjecture gathered against our cause is, 7. Likelihood. The ill success it hath had these very many years, being no more increased, where the increasings of God are great, etc. As it is always safer to proceed by the causes & reasons of things Answ. then by their events and success, so especially is this rule of use in " Math. 7. 14. the case of religion, whose way as it is in itself narrow and found by few, how much more being streytned by the fiery persecutions of the wicked world. Indeed the Church of England hath advantage of us and (as I suppose) of all the Churches in the world for monstrous speedy growth, and increase, for that of a Synagogue of Satan consisting of Popish Idolaters, and cruel murderers of the saints, it grew fro top to toe into a true and entire body of Christ of a suddayn, & before the greatest part of it so much as heard the gospel preached in any measure for their conversion. But consider herein M. B. dealing: He spares no ungodly means in this his book, and otherways, by slandering our persons, by falsyfying our opinions, by exaggerating our infirmities, by incensing the Magistrate against us, to suppress us, and yet reproacheth us because we grow no faster: dealing with us much what as the jews did with Christ when they blindfolded him first, & then bade him prophesy who smote him, Luk. 22. 64. But let it be as Mr B. would have it, that the cause of religion is to be measured by the multitude of them that profess it, yet must it further be considered, that religion is not always ●own & reaped in one age: * joh. 4. 37. One soweth and another reapeth. john Husse and jerom of Prage finished their testimony in Bohemia, and at Constance a hundred years before Luther, & Wickliff in England well nigh as long before them, and yet neither the one nor the other with the like success unto Luther. And the many that are already gathered by the mercy of God into the kingdom of his son jesus, & the nearnes of many more through the whole land (for the regions are white unto the harvest) do promise within less than an hundred years (if our sins & theirs make not us and them unworthy of this mercy) a very plenteous harvest. That we have been here and there up and down without sure footing, is our portion in this present evil world common to us with the more worthy servants of God going before us, who* have wandered in wildernesses Heb. 11. 38 and mountains and dens and caves of the earth. The sa●ne answer may serve for that other approbation of us, That, we only have toleration in a place, where the enemies of Christ may be as well as we. Yea though we were not so much as tolerated, but on the contrary persecuted to the death, where the enemies of Christ were not only tolerated but even approved yea the persecuters of us, for the cause of Christ, what were this but to partake in the fellowship of his afflictions with the holy Prophets and Apostles, and other his most faithful servants. And I will tell you Mr B. in the presence of God what my persuasion is in this case, that as we have only toleration in the City where we live, where the enemies of Christ are tolerated with us, so all that truly fear God whether Ministers or private people have only toleration in your Church, & no approbation by the canons and constitutions of it. And for the leading of the people out of one nation into another of a strange language, it is our great cross (but no sin at all) and should rather move you and others to compassion towards us, than thus to insult over us in our exile. But your addition, that we do this without compulsion is most shameless, you yourself both beholding and furthering our most violent persecution. But see your equal dealing with us, whilst we tarried in the kingdom you blamed us because we got us not gone, now we are gone you find fault we tarry not. For your marginal note that, Israel left not Egypt without Pharaohs leave, nor the jews Babylon without Cyrus his consent. To let pass the leave which Pharaoh gave the Israelites to depart, when to reduce them back, he and his people followed them into the sea; they could not depart sooner (though they would) being held in bondage by their enemies, yet when Moses was in danger of his life as we are, he fled as we do. Exod. 2. 15. Besides, the Israelites had the certain known time of their captivities limited & prescribed by God, which they were to tarry. Gen. 15. 13. 14. Exod. 12. 40. 41 jer. 25. 11. 12. Dan. 9 2. Ezra 1. 1. which is no way our case. And what other do we in flying then the holy Prophets Exod. 2. 15 1 Sam. 18. 10. & 27. 1. 2. 1 King. 9 3. Act. 9 25. and Apostles have done before us, and then the Protestants did in Queen Mary's reign, that fled to Frankford, Geneva, and other places, where they understood not the language of other nations? yea then the Lord jesus himself hath sanctified not only “ Mat. 10. 23. by his commandment, or licence at the least, but also in his own person † Mat. 2. 13. 14. flying into a Egypt in his mother's arms? Reason see I none why this man should thus blame us for our flying, except with the Montanists he thought flight in the time of persecution unlawful. Lastly, Mr B. concludeth his likelihoods with a cursed farewell, which (saith he) we leave in all places, like a scorching flame swinging where it comes, so as the growth of all things are hindered by it. And this observation he fathers upon me though in truth it be his own bastard. I affirmed in deed that where this truth came, it left the places barrayn of good things in taking away the best sort of people, but this I spoke to no such purpose as is here insinuated. The scorching flame which hinders all things in the Church of England is the Prelacy, to which (by universal and infallible observation) no man applies himself, no nor inclines, but with a sensible decay of the former graces which he seemed to have. He that but once enters into the High priests hall to warm himself at the fire there, shall scarce return without a scorched conscience. Having formerly viewed Mr B. his bare probabilities, we will now come to debate his reasons against separation. The first sort whereof are grounded upon the entrance into this cause, which he makes very sinful, and cursed, because of the great evils, which (saith he) ensue thereupon. And the first of these imputed evils is, That we not only disclaim and condemns the corruptions and notorious Mr Bern. wicked, but withal forsake all Christian profession amongst them, casting off the word by which we were made alive, the ministers our fathers which have begot us, yea and all fellowship of the godly with them, and so account them ever false Christians, and Idolaters, having a false faith, false repentance, & false baptism. And from these evils thus suggested he both dissuades the reader with some passionate Rhyme in the margin, and deterrs him by sundry bitter curses cast out against us both in the margin and text. Answer. There is no truth of doctrine, nor ordinance of Christ taught or practised in the Church of England which we enjoy not, with far more liberty, better right, and greater purity than any person in England doth or can, as Mr Ber. knoweth right well; & for the good graces of God in many, we do both know, & acknowledge them, and it is our great grief (though their own fault) that we cannot have communion with the persons in whom so eminent graces of God are: and if there be any of them which are sorry for our departure from the assemblies, we are much more sorry (& so have more cause) for their continuance in the same. In which their estate whilst we withdraw ourselves from them, we do in no sort condemn their persons, (which stand or fall to the Lord) much less any good thing in them, or truth amongst them. It is one thing simply to condemn that which is good for evil, and another thing to forbear the use of it in the concrete, for the commixture of evil, from which in that use it is inseparable. When Paul forbade the Corinthians to eat and drink in the Idol temples, 1 Cor. 10. 20. ●1. he did not condemn meat, & drink. Neither did the same Apostle when he directed the same Corinthians to excommunicate the incestuous person, and so to have no fellowship with him, 1 Cor. 5. enjoin them to renounce the faith which that person professed, or the baptism which they with him had received. And as a Church excommunicating an offender for some one scandalous sin and so refusing all communion with him, cannot be challenged for renouncing or rejecting the faith which that person professeth, or any other personal good thing appearing in him; so neither may any person or persons forsaking a Church and all fellowship with it for some one or few just causes, justly be accused as renouncing or disclaiming the other good things there remaining. Lastly let me ask Mr B. whether he disclaim one God subsisting in three persons, & one Lord jesus God and man, and withal, the Christian virtues of zeal, patience, temperance, humility▪ meekness, and the like. And why not he as well in refusing communion with the Church of Rome where these things are to be found, as we in disclaiming the Church of Engl. where the same and other the like good things are known to be? Thus when a man's eyes are blinded, by partiality towards himself, and his mouth opened by malice against his adversary, it is mervaylous to see what unequal judgement he will pass. But least Mr B. in charging our beginning (as he doth) as accursed, uncharitable, unnatural, and ungodly, might seem to curse where God curseth not, he annexeth certain portions of scripture, which he also sets down at large, as though they made largely against us, and our separation, and the end why he allegeth them is to prove that there is cause of rejoicing in the Church of England. The scriptures are these. Rom. 15. 17. 18. Act. 10. 34. 35. Rom. 14. 17. 18. To which I do answer first in general. There may be & oft times is cause of rejoicing in the events and issues of things by a special hand of God determining them, though the secondary means and instruments which the Lord useth for the producing, and bringing forth of these issues & events (as of light out of darkness) be most accursed. Wherein more, or else, hath a christian heart cause of rejoicing then in the death of Christ? And yet what can be imagined more abominable than the means and instruments of working it. But to speak nearer Mr B. purpose. If some jesuit, or other, sent by the Pope into America amongst the Pagans and Infidels, should there persuade any to believe & confess one God, and his son jesus Christ made man for the redemption of the world, & that they should also give up their lives for these truths, there were cause of rejoicing in their testimony, and yet I suppose Mr B. (knowing as he doth) would be loath to have communion in the jesuits Ministry. More particularly. The Apostle Rom. 15. 17 18. in commendation of his Apostleship lays down the effects of it and how great cause of rejoicing he had, that God by his ministry had planted the Churches of the Gentiles whom he further describes by their obedience in word and deed. And how serves this for the Church of England? Thus. It serves first to exclude all those word Saints for whom Mr B. pleads so much in his book. Secondly it serves to show what small cause there is of reioying for the English Churches being planted of such universally & so still continuing as are indeed abominable and disobedient, & to every good work reprobate. The second Scripture is Act. 10. 34. 35. Of a truth I perceive that God is no accepter of persons, but in every nation he that feareth him and worketh righteousness is accepted of him. And is it so? What sacrilegious presumption than is it in the Church of Enland to compel God to accept of persons, and to accept for his people & servants such as neither fear him, nor work righteousness but the contrary? to offer up their persons & sacrifices to him in the name of Christ in whom they have no portion? to seal up the covenant of his grace and peace unto them in the sacraments with whom it never came into his heart to strike hand, neither hath he peace with them? The third Scripture is Rom. 14. 17. 18. The kingdom of God is not meat, not drink, but righteousness, and peace and joy in the Holy G. for whosoever in those things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, etc. Hence (to let pass the drift of the Apostle in this place else where opened) thus much must necessarily follow, that where righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost are not, nor men in those things serving Christ, there the kingdom of God is not, nor these men his subjects. And where God's kingdom is not, there is the kingdom of Satan, and they that are not the subjects of the one, are the slaves of the other. And so I leave it to the godly reader to judge whither the assemblies in England gathered at the first, and at this day consisting of such persons for the most part as do not thus nor in these things viz: righteousness peace and joy in the Holy Ghost serve Christ, but the contrary, can be rightly & by the word of God accounted the kingdom of God & Church of Christ. Thus the 3. Scriptures which Mr B. stretched out like a threefold chord to hold men in the assemblies, are in truth and in their right meaning as a three stringed whip to scourge those that fear God out of them. With such a renunciation of the truth must be interteyned much untruth Mr B. (saith Mr Ber.) as first thou must believe their way to be the truth of God, then condemn our Church as a false Church: when themselves have published that the differences betwixt us and them are but corruptions. N●w corruptions, do not make a false Church but a corrupt Church, a● corruptions in a man make but a corrupt, but no false man. If we bear witness of ourselves our witness is not true, Answ. but if the word of God bear witness with us, and against you, it must stand. And for the advantage which you suppose you have gained at us, where we acknowledge our differences to be only your corruptions, it will nothing at all enrich you, or better your Church: For there are corruptions essential, and in the very causes constitutive, matter, & form aswell as else where: there are corruptions which eat out the very heart of a thing, as well as such as hinder the working only, or steyn the work. And we may truly say of all the abominable doctrines and devises in Rome, that they are but so many corruptions of those pure truths, & holy ordinances which that Church at the first received from Christ the Lord. And for your similitude of a man, whom you say corruptions make not a false man, but a corrupt man, you are deceived in it, whether you consider a man naturally or morally. Naturally, what is death but the corruption of the man? as generatio & corruptio are opposed. And what is rottenness but the corruption of the body? Now these do more than make a corrupt man, or corrupt body, they do destroy the very being. But consider a man morally (as in the case of religion he must be considered) & then moral corruptions & vices do either make a false man, or else a traitor, a thief, a cozener is a true man, which patronage I hope Mr B. will not undertake. The second rank of reasons which Mr B. brings against us are certain grievous sins wherewith (he saith) all in our way are polluted, for Mr B. which according to our own principle no man may join himself unto us. The sins he nameth are, a renunciation of God's mercy, and of all good things, and men with them, unthankfulness to God, and the Church, spiritual uncharitableness, audacious censuring, a desire to hinder, yea to extinguish all the spiritual good they publicly enjoy, and a wish of destruction unto the people, and the like. Grievous accusations certainly, but if to accuse be to convince Answ. who shallbe innocent? not the Lord jesus himself, nor his holy Apostles: whose examples in undergoing the like reproaches, and in patient bearing of the same at the hands of wicked men, if we had not before our eyes, either our hearts would break in us for sorrow, or we should be provoked to render reproach for reproach, & so Mr B. sin against God. Our first supposed sin is that woeful entrance before named, for which I refer the reader to that which hath been before answered. But they in England (saith Mr B.) enter by baptism renouncing Ans. the Devil and sin. So do the Papists as loud as they, and with as many godfathers and godmothers, crossing and blessing themselves against the Devil, and all his works as much as they do. And for the renunciation of God's mercy and all good men, and good things in them in the Church of England: because we refuse communion there, it is a foul charge laid upon us, but to which we are no more liable, then were the Levites when they forsook jeroboams Church and repaired to jerusalem † 2 Ca ●1. 13. 14. the place which the Lord had chosen. For in Israel which they forsook were to be found both good persons and things. 1 King. 14. 13. and 19 18. Now where in the last place Mr B. chargeth us not to make unclean what God hath cleansed Act. 10. 1●. we on the contrary advise him not to account that clean, which sin and Antichrist doth defile. Let him or any other man on earth show unto us by the word of God that a Church gathered and consisting of persons for the most part defiled with all manner of impiety, is cleansed by God, or that the daily sacrifice the service book is as a lamb without spot, or that the spiritual courts so miscalled, are sanctified of God for the government of his kingdom on earth, or that the Court keepers the Archflamins and Flamens the Provincial and Diocesan Bishops with their Chauncelers' Commissaries Archdeacon's and other officers are his holy ones upon whom he hath put his urim and Thummim, and then let us bear our rebuke if we do not return to the Church of England and humble ourselves under her hand, as Hagar did herself under the hand of her mistress, Gen. 16. 9 The second sin wherewith Mr B. chargeth us is our great unthankfulness, 1. to God that begat us by his word, either by denying our conversion ●r Mr B. else accounting it a false conversion, 2. towards the Church of England our mother whom we desire to make a whore before Christ her husband, condemn ●●r etc. And this accusation he shutteth up with most bitter execrations against us as unworthy to breathe in the air. For the thankfulness of our hearts unto the Lord our God for his Answ. unspeakable mercies we leave it unto him that knows the heart, and for the manifestation of it unto men, we refer them to our entire (though weak) obedience to the whole revealed will of God, and ordinances of Christ jesus, which we take to be the most acceptable sacrifice of thankfulness which by man can be offered to the Lord. And for our personal conversion in the Church of England we deny it not but do (and always have so done) judge and profess it true there: and so was Luther's conversion true in the Church of Rome, else could not his separation from Rome have been of faith or accepted of God. The same may be said of all the persons and Churches in the world which have forsaken Rome. Our third imagined, sin is spiritual uncharitableness appearing in our M. B. deep censures upon all at least not inclinable unto us, condemning such as know not our way as blinded by the God of this world the Devil: such as se● it, & yield not unto it, as worldlings, fearful, convinced in conscience, & going on in presumptuous sin: such as forsake it having formerly inclined unto it, Apostates, and if they oppose it, godless persecuters, hunters after souls, such as shall certainly grow worse & worse, so as men shall say, God is revenged on them, etc. If any one man have thus peremptorily defined either in word or writing, as Mr B. witnesseth, it was that one man's fault, and is not to be imputed to the rest of us, more than Mr B. most malicious & hateful accusations in this book to all the Ministers, & people in the Church of Engl. whereof I doubt not but thousands are ashamed, and to which they would be more unwilling to subscribe, than he to the Bishop's canons. I for mine own part only exhort all men in all places, as they look to be approved at that day when the secrets of all hearts shallbe disclosed, that they deal faithfully in the Lord's business, & take heed they neither forbear through partial prejudice, or fleshly fear to inquire after the truth nor with hold it in unrighteousness, if they have found it, especially that they oppose it not, either in hatred or contempt of the persons professing it, or in flattery of the Prelates and others of their train, whom most directly it impugneth. And for the rest whose hearts are upright before the Lord, mine hearty prayer is that according to their integrity their comforts may be, & that together with myself they may find mercy with the Lord for all those ignorances, & infirmities wherewith the sons of men are compassed about in the days of their flesh. And for you Mr B. where you take God to witness, and the Lord to judge, that you do not oppose us of hatred or malice, nor of purpose to vex us, or to increase our afflictions knowing as you do the terrors of the judgements of the Lord, I would seriously advise you, considering what you have spoken and threatened upon some personal provocations, to take heed you be not to bold with such deep protestations as these are nor please yourself too much in them, because you find them sometimes profitable to serve your turn upon simple people. The second point of our uncharitableness spiritual Mr B. makes, Mr B. a most ungodly desire (as ever was heard of) to have the word utterly extintinguished amongst them, & Egyptian darkness to come over them, rather than it should be preached by such as do not favour our course. And thereupon he inters into a large commendation of preaching the gospel, as though we either despised or undervalved it: and on the other side into a most base extenuation of the constitution of the Church and of orderly proceeding in preaching, as things little or nothing regarded by the Prophets, Apostles, and other holy men of God. For this man thus to accuse us as if we desired that the light of Answ. the gospel might be put out in the land, and that darkness might cover all, is a most ungodly & impious slander (as ever was heard of) and in truth one drop of that gall of bitterness which the Christian reader he confesseth in the preface is like to find in his book. We are glad and do rejoice for every spark of knowledge kindled in the heart of any person in the land, beseeching him which is both the author & finisher of all grace, that the same may break out into a perfect flame. But because we are taught, that the least evil may not be practised for the greatest good: Rom. 3. 8. nor a ly told for God. job. 13. 9 (who needs not man's sin for the accomplishment of his righteousness) we advise all men to take heed how they adventure to tread the maze of their own good meanings without warrant of God's word, or to do that which is good in itself without a lawful calling unto it, pleasing themselves in the uncertain events of things, which are only in the hands of God: and rather to turn their feet from every evil way into the steps of righteousness commending by faith the issues, and events of things unto the Lord, whom alone they concern, and rather to choose neither to buy nor sell, then to receive the character or mark of the beast, or the number of his name, Rev. 13. 17. knowing that he which worshippeth the beast and his image, and receaves his character in his forehead or in his hand, shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, of the pure wine powered into the cup of his wrath, and shallbe tormented with fire and brimstone in the sight of the holy Angels, and before the presence of the Lamb. Rev. 4. 9 10. And for the concluding of this point, I would only demand of Mr B. whether those godly ministers whom he brings in pag. 130 to bear down all before them, be not of that company which rather choose to be silenced by the Prelates, yea & so persuade others also, then to submit to their ceremonies, & subscription. I think he will not deny it, if he be asked the question. And do these godly Ministers there, or other in Engl. minded as I speak desire that the word may utterly be extinguished in the land, & that Egyptian darkness may come over all? Indeed the Prelates so charge them as the cause of all Papism, and Atheism in the land; but Mr B. (I know) judgeth otherwise of them: and so would he do of us, if the beam of malice did not blind his right eye, when he looked towards us. Now for the preaching of the word and gospel of salvation, as Mr B. doth but worthily and according to the excellency of it, magnify and advance the same, so doth he most injuriously, and deceitfully oppose it unto the holy order within which the Lord hath ranged it, and to the true constitution of the Church and other the ordinances thereof, with which it consorteth necessarily by the Lord's appointment, and so they make together a most heavenly harmony. And thus to set the ordinances of Christ at jar amongst themselves, and in the commendation of one principal to bury the rest as vile, and unnecessary, is a most effectual delusion, and deep deceit, by which the mystery of iniquity is much advantaged in the false assemblies, and the hearts of the simple fast held in the snares of error, and impiety. The Bishops & those of their sect do in their sermons & writings extol prayer. But to what end? That they may depress preaching, and oppress preachers, and so establish their service-saying Priests in the Ministry. Mr. B. here, and so the forward sort commonly will magnify preaching: but as he here, so they oft times with an evil ey to the right gathering, lawful government, and orderly administration of the holy things of & in the church. Well, the Lord sees this halting on both sides & will avenge the quarrel of his very meanest ordinance, & † Math. 5. 19 least commandment upon all these deceitful workers. Who is wise that he may understand these things, & prudent that he may take knowledge of them? for the ways of jehovah are righteous, and the just shall walk in them, but the rebels shall fall in them. And for the preaching of the gospel would Mr B. but turn his eye a little upon himself, and his national Church, he might find that every text brought by him for the advancement of preaching▪ is as a sworn evidence both against himself, & the Church for which he pleads. The more needful vision is, for which he quotes in the first place Prov. 29. 18. where vision is not, the people perisheth, or is made naked, the more desperate is the estate of the Church of England wherein the greatest part of the Parishes by far have dark midnight for vision: the more unlawful and ungodly is the ministry of that Church, to which preaching is but an accident, and no way essential or necessary; the more accursed is the Prelacy of the same Church which for indifferent things and so not necessary (as themselves acknowledge) blind the eyes and stop the mouths of the best seers, and paynefullest preachers in all places. And if the order which Christ hath left in his Church be so vile in Mr B. eyes in comparison of his unorderly preaching, what can he say for his Lords the Bishops which for the orders devised by themselves & by their forefathers of Rome thrust out of so many Churches the ordinance of preaching? A man would think Mr B. zeal should find room enough at home and in his own Church, and not thus pursue beyond the ●●as a poor company of despised, and dispersed people. But to the very point which Mr B. drives at. There is not one scripture alleged by him which iustifyes the preaching of the gospel out of a true (much less in a false) constitution. They do all and every one of them necessarily presuppose the same, howsoever he would separate the things which God hath joined together. Take one for example and that such a one, as he makes a pillar in his building. It is written and so by him alleged, Psa. 147. 19 20. He showed his word unto jacob, his statutes and his judgements unto Israel: He hath not so dealt with every nation, etc. Here (saith Mr B.) the Lord prefers his word before a constitution, as a testimony of his special love. But untruly. For in this very place the Lord prefers a constitution before his word, statutes, and judgements as the cause why he gave them. For wherefore did the Lord show his word unto jaakob, his statutes & judgements unto Israel, but because of their constitution? that is, because Israel was the Lords peculiar people separated from all other nations, and received by the Lord into covenant, as no other nation was. Lev. 26. ●4. 14. Exod. 19 5. 6. Deut. 19 10. 11. 12. etc. with Ronvere▪ 3. 2. & 9 4. Act. 2. 39 & 3. 23. how profanely soever this man doth debase and vilify the true constitution of the Church which he is like never to enjoy, as Esau did the birthright, wherewith the Lord never meant to honour him. Gen. 2●. 32. 33. And amongst other debasements of the constitution of the Church he affirmeth pag. 55. that though an orderly proceeding aught to be had, yet that at no hand for want thereof preaching aught to be left of, & to this end pag. 53. and 54. he violently haileth into the same guilt with himself the brethren of the dispersion Act. 8. 1. 4. 12. whom he chargeth in preaching the word, not to have stood vp●n every special point in entering so orderly unto the work. But as their entrance was most orderly for that being of a true constituted Church at jerusalem & dispersed by persecution, they published the gospel in every place where they came, as any member of the Church may do, (as grace is ministered, and occasion offered), so is it on the otherside a Babylonish presumption for any man under any praetence whatsoever, to enterprise the preaching of the gospel or any other work disorderly. † 1 Co. 14. 40. The Apostle (speaking especially of prophesying) expressly commands, that all things be done according to order: how then dare any petty Pope, or proctor of Babylon dispense with or plead for disorder in this or any other ministration in the Church? Mr B. The last and highest degree of our uncharitableness he reckons this that we are sorry and envious that the good things of God do prosper with them, & that the more religious men be in their way the more are we grieved, and to this end he pretends Mr Barrowes abusing and scoffing at the graces of God, and holy exercises in such persons. Ans. As we hold ourselves bound to acknowledge all good things in all men and to honour them accordingly, 1 Pet. 2. 17. So must I here demand of Mr B. as another hath done before me, what those good things are which so prosper; Only the Prelates prosper in the kingdom who with their ceremonious horns & canons beat & batter down all that stands in their way. Of their prosperity against the truth we are sorry, but not envious, being taught not to envy the works of iniquity, considering what suddayn, and certain desolation shall fall upon them. Psal. 37. 9 10. And (by the way) where Mr B. takes it for granted, that the reformists are the most religious in the way of the Church of England it is clean otherwise. The most absolute Formalists, & most strict urgers of conformity are the most religious in the way of the Church of England: And as for the reformists their zeal (to speak as the truth is, and as shall hereafter more fully be manifested) is not in, nor for the way of the Church of England but a by path from it, which the Church of England (considered in the formal constitution of it) accounteth schism, and rebellion: but rather the same way in effect which we walk, if they were true to their own grounds, and durst practise what they have professed in their supplications, and admonitions to the Prince, and Parliament, & other their under hand passages, wherein they do plainly condemn the Prelacy for Antichristian, the service book as superstitious, the mixture of all sorts of people as confused, and so of the rest. And this Mr B. justifieth the objections which you would so gladly prevent pag. 57 made by your brethren in the faith (for so are the worst of them) the profane and secure worldlings, and Atheists, that men painful and conscionable in their Ministry and lives, do breed and further (as you speak) Brownistes and Brownisme. For proof hereof I will here insert a few things written & published both in former and latter times by such men, as I dare say Mr B. reckons amongst the painful & conscionable Ministers. Their words are these. We have an Antichristian & Popish ordering of Ministers, strange from the word of God never heard of in the primitive Church but taken out of the Pope's shop to the destruction of God's kingdom. 2. Adm. to the Parl. The names and offices of Archbishops, Archdeacon's Lordbishops etc. are together with their government drawn out of the Pope's shop Antichristian, devilish, and contrary to the scriptures. Parsons, vicars Parish Priests, Stipendaryes etc. be birds of the same feather. 2. Admo. to the Parliament. The callings of Archbishops, Bishops, with all such be ra●●er members and parts of the whore and strumpet of Rome, then of the pure Virgin and spouse of the immaculate Lamb. Mr Ch. Serm. upon Rom. 12. The calling of Bishops and Archbishops do only belong unto the Kingdom of Antichrist. Discovery of D. Ban. slanders. pag. ●0. Our Diocesan and Provincial Churches using Diocesan and Provincial government and officers are contrary to God's word and simply unlawful. Mr jakob for reformation: Ass: 1. There is no true visible Church of Christ but a particular congregation only. Christian Offer. Prop. 4. Every true visible Church of Christ or ordinary assembly of the faithful hath by Christ's ordinance power in itself immediately under Christ to elect, to ordain, deprive, and depose their Ministers and to execute all other Ecclesiastical Censures. Ibid: Prop: 5. The visible Church of Christ wheresoever it be hath the power of binding and losing annexed unto it as our saviour Christ teacheth Math. 18. Discovery of D. Ban. slanders. Preface. We must needs say as followeth, that this book (viz the Communion book) is an unperfect book culled and picked out of that Popish dunghill the mass book full of all abominations. Adm: to Parl. Treat: 2. Amongst us the holy sacraments are communicated with the Papists, the holy mysteries of God profaned, the Gentiles enter into the temple of God, the holy things are indifferently communicated with the clean and unclean, circumcised and uncircumcised. A plain declaration of ecclesiastical discipline. pag. 172. Now let the indifferent reader judge whether these sayings with many more of the like kind do not most necessarily conclude, yea & naturally beget a separation from the government, Ministry, worship and communion of the Church of England: and whether these men in thus writing have not opened the door unto us, by which themselves enter not. To the further charge of uncharitableness laid against us, as being Mr B. glad when they contend amongst themselves never praying for the peace & welfare of the ministry etc. I do answer, that we rejoice for all peace Answ. in truth amongst all men but for peace in iniquity, which is a wicked conspiracy, and fearful judgement of God we rejoice not, we pray not. Let Mr B. ask the godly Ministers with whose supply he backs his book, whither they rejoice in his & other men's peaceable subscription & conformity? or whither they could not rather have wished they had contended against the same? yea let me ask Mr B. himself whither he rejoice in the peace of the representative Church of England the Convocation house, and in their unanimous consent in framing and imposing their canons and constitutions? or whither he would not rather clap his wings and craw for joy, if the two Archprelates with the rest of their horned Clergy there, would oppose and cross one another? And let me ask him yet further for the welfare of which order of Ministry he would have us pray? or whither he himself pray for the welfare of the Bishops (except it be sometimes before their faces.) And for us to pray for the inferior Ministry and not for the prelacy is to dally with God, and to bless the branch, and not the root. And in alleging (as you do) Act. 11. 20. 21. 22. 23. 24. to prove that holy men have rejoiced for the people receiving of the gospel and not at their standing in a constitution, you do injuriously separate things to be conjoined. For the same persons that received the gospel joined themselves in a constitution, or constituted Church as appeareth ver. 26. And it is expressly said, Act. 2. 41. that they that received the word were added to the Church, and being baptized they must needs be of a Church for baptism is not without, but within the Church and an ordinance given unto it. And how profanely bold soever you (Mr B.) are to blaspheme the tabernacle of God which he hath pitched amongst men, or visible Church framed according to the pattern given by a greater than Moses, yet is it good for us to consider what the H. Ghost noteth, in the last verse of the forenamed Chap. that the Lord added to the Church from day to day such as should be saved. Neither can you possibly produce one example or other proof in the scriptures of one man teaching the gospel but he was a member of a true Church, nor receiving it but he joined unto one. And for the man that cast out Devils in Christ's name but followed him not, Mark. 9 39 he can no way help you for what purpose soever you allege him. For first he was a member of a true constituted Church the the Church of the jews, which was yet undissolved. 2. he had no office but a gift. 3. his gift and calling to use it, was extraordinary and miraculous. Now for our love towards you, wherein you blame us as defective, it is the same in general which we bear towards all men, and more special according to the special bonds betwixt us and you, and towards many very great both for the many good things we know to be in them, and under the hope also of their further progress. And for our prayers, as it is true that we cannot pray for you as visible members of God's Church, for God never gathered Church of the visible and apparent members of the Devil as the greatest part of yours were & are: so is it unjustly insinuated against us that we pray no otherwise for you than for Papists Atheists and the like. We pray for the perfecting of God's work in you, and that as we think many of you his people in Babylon, so you may come out of her. Our next brand of uncharitableness is our accustomary excommunications Mr B. even for light offences in some, albeit others obstinate can be let pass. And to prove this he quotes Mr George johnson, & Mr White, the Answ. former an excommunicate himself, whom Mr B. also pag. 35. of his book calls a disgraceful libeler; the other an ungodly apostate, whose accusations have been answered one by one. A fit evidence for such a plea and plaintiff. But if Mr B. (knowing the fashions of the Church of England) had but once remembered the saying of the Lord jesus, Mat. 7. 3. 4. 5. he would never have accused other Ch: of uncharitable and rash excommunications, which if they be a mote in the Church of Amsterdam are a beam in the Church of England, wherein there is more danger of excommunication to them that fear God then to any other flagitious persons whomsoever. Indeed no man can challenged Mr B. & his Church of Worxsop for any such heady and rash excommunications, they are very moderate this way, and can bear in communion with them any graceless person whomsoever till his dying day, and then commit full charitably the body of their deceased brother to the grave, with a devout prayer for his joyful resurrection: so charitable are they both to the living and the dead. But the thing which most grieves Mr B, and at which he hath greatest indignation Pag. 62. is, that we will not hear his sermons though he preach nothing but the true word of God. And so he desires to hear of us, where the hearing of the true word of God only preached is sin and for bidden by Christ, or the Prophets or Apostles. For answer hereof I would know first whether Mr B. speaking here and in many other places of the true word of God do mean, that God hath a true word and a false word or rather bewray not an accusing conscience, that they in England have not the word truly taught, that is in a true office of Ministry? Now for the demand (referring the reader for more full satisfaction, to that which hath been published at large by others) I do answer, that as it was unlawful to † Num. ●6 2 Ch. 26. 1 King. 12. communicate with Corah or with Vzziah though they burnt true incense, or with jeroboams Priests though they offered true sacrifices, so is it unlawful to communicate with a devised ministry, what truth soever is taught in it. Secondly the Lord hath promised no blessing to his word but in his own ordinance, though by his superabundant mercy he oft times vouchsafe that which no man can chalendg by any ordinary promise. Thirdly * Tim. 5. ●2. no man may partake in other men's sins, but every Ministry either devised or usurped is the sin of him which exerciseth it. Rev. 18. 4. And as no good subject would assist or communicate with any person in the administration of civil justice to the King's subjects (no not though h● administered the same never so equally and indifferrently) except the same person had commission from the King so to do: so neither ought the subjects of the kingdom of Christ to partake with any person whomsoever in the dispensation of any spiritual thing (though in itself never so holy) without sufficient warrant and commission from the most absolute and sovereign King of his Church Christ jesus. And where Mr B. speaks of hearing the true word of God only preached, he intimates therein, that if we would hear him preach it would satisfy him well, and so teacheth us with himself and others to make a schism in the Church in using one ordinance and not another. It is all one whether a man communicate with the Minister in his pulpit or with the Chancellor in his consistory, both of them minister by the same power of the Bishop. The Chancellor may judge justly, & who knows whither or no the Minister will teach truly? And if he do not, but speak the vision of his own heart, what remedy hath the Church or what can they that hear him do? May they † ● Tim. 5. 20. rebuke him openly according to his sin, and so bring him to repentance? or must they not bear his errors yea his heresies also during the pleasure of the Bishops, even their Lord, & his? And would you Mr B. be content your people should hear a mass Priest or jesuit, though he professed as loud as you do, that he would teach the true word of God? And think not scorn of the match, for you have the self same office with a mass Priest though refined. If he be ordained by a Bishop (though it be the Bishop of Rome) he may minister in any Church of England by virtue of that ordination. And besides mass Priests preach some and those the main truths, and the Ministers in England neither do nor da●e preach all, no nor some which (it may be) the others do. Is it not better then for the servants of the L. jesus to exercise & aedify themselves according to the model of grace received, though in weaker measure, then to be so simple as to come to your feasts, though you cry never so loud unto them, thinking that because your stolen waters are sweet, and your hidden bread pleasant, that they have no power to pass by, but must needs become your guests? Lastly Mr B. even to make up the measure of his malice, as he formerly reproached us by the oppositions, & dissensions which he hath heard of amongst us, so doth he here by the unity and love which himself hath seen in us, comparing it page 64. to the love of Familists, and Papists, and other wretched and graceless companions. So that belike whither we love or hate, whither we agree or disagree, this man willbe sure to find matter of reproach unto us, and of stumbling to himself, as the jews did both from john's austerity, and from Christ's more sociable course of life, Math. 11. 18. 19 Mr B. Our fourth sin is abusing the word, of which all are guilty by misalledging and wresting places of Scripture etc., and this Mr B. proves because some have accused some of the principal of us with it. If accusation be conviction Mr B. needs not speak of some or any Answ. other, he himself hath most mightily convinced us, for he hath most hatefully accused us of any man a live. The fifth sin (supposed) is our wilful persisting in our schism, lightly regarding Mr B. reverend men's labours and sinfully despising weaker means, etc. It is well known that Mr B. how earnestly soever he pleads Answ. with us for the contrary, doth himself as much neglect (save for his own purposes) the judgement of other men, as any other: neither is there one minister in the land (I am verily persuaded) with whom he suiteth, but a right Ishmael is he less or more, having his hand against every man and every man's against him. Well I deny our separation to be schism, (as we take the word) much less do we persist wilfully in it. And for the judgement of other men, as we despise not the meanest, so neither do we pin our faith upon the sleeves of the most learned. The other exceptions of shifting and evading the scriptures, & of perverseness of spirit in conference, I pretermit as being both frivolous & despiteful, only something must be answered before we pass this point, to the charge laid upon us, Pag 98. touching, corruptions in the Churches Apostolical, and reform. And first, object to them Mr B. (saith he) the corruptions of the Churches Apostolical, and their answer is either that we maintain our corruptions by the sins of other Churches, or else they were in a true constitution. And how can you with modesty reject this answer? you say we misconstrue Answ. your intendment, which is that corruption make not a false Church. We grant it except they be essential: but this is that we say that what Church soever allegeth the corruptions of other Churches with a purpose to continued in the like themselves (which is your estate) that Church maintains her corruptions by the sins of other Churches. And for the second point I do affirm that merely by virtue of a constitution there may be a true Church of God though abounding (for the present) in sin and iniquity, & yet another assembly not rightly constituted or gathered into covenant with God, no true Church though less impieties be to be found in it. The Prophet jeremy complains † L●m. 4. 6. that the iniquity of the daughter of his people (namely jerusalem) was become greater than the sin of Sodom, and the Prophet Ezeki●l affirms that * Ezek 16. 46. 47. 51. 52. jerusalem was more corrupt by half then Sodom and Samaria. And yet was jerusalem the true Church of God, which neither Samaria nor Sodom were, no nor yet any other place in the world, where not half the wickedness was wrought that was to be found in the better of them. This point I will further examplify by a similitude. A woman free and separated from all other men and joined in civil covenant to a man, is his wife, yea though she prove very stubborn and disobedient, yea and dishonest also, till the bill of divorcement be given her; but an other woman the wife of an other man, or not contracted to that man, is not his wife, nor can be so reputed, though she be never so obedient & buxom unto him: so the Church of England till it be separated & free from the world & prince of the world that reigneth in it, & so from Antichrist his Eldest son in his hye●archy priesthood & other ordinances, & be taken into covenant with the Lord cannot possibly be the true Ch: of God or wife of Christ: no not though the good things in it were many more than they are. Which we do not allege, as is craftily insinuated against us, to justify any man's continuance in a Church full of wickedness, but to prove that the constitution of the Church that is the collection and combination of Saints as matter in and into covenant with God as the form, is that which gives true being unto a Church and nothing else, how vilely soever men judge or speak of it. And for corruptions in the Apostolical Churches it is true the Apostles mentioned them, but always with utter dislike, severe reproof, and straight charge of reforming them. Rom. 16. 17. 1 Cor. 5. 1. 6. 7. 11— 13. 1 Thes. 5. 14. 2 Thes. 3. 6. 1 Tim. 6. 5. Rev. 2. 14— 16. 20. But how do these things concern you? Though Paul, and all the Apostles of Christ with him, yea though Christ himself from heaven should admonish any of your Churches to put away from among themselves any person though never so heretical or flagitious, you could not do it, neither could you reform any abomination otherwhere, though the same be as conspicuous as the * 2 Chron. 26. 20. leprosy of Vzziah which broke forth in his forehead. And this want of the power of the Lord jesus for reformation, which an other man would think were an intolerable slavery Mr B. pag 68 turns to good advantage, and thinks himself & his Church half excused of all the evils which are amongst them, because they want power to use the remedy: thus pleading for a privilege the mark of the beast, from which the servants of God ought to abhor, herein being passing witty above other men in making an advantage of that evil, which the most have enough to do to excuse. And for true Churches not using aright the power they have for reformation, they are like true bodies which through some obstructions, or stops for a time cannot void things noxious, & hurtful till there be a remedy: but the Church without this power is as a monstrous body wanting the faculties & instruments of evacuation and expulsion of excrements, or other noy some things▪ and therefore is never appointed of God to live, but devoted to death and destruction? Of the reformed Churches & our carriage towards them I have spoken else where, and for your Turkish Argument in the margin wherein you incense the Magistrate against us, as otherwise incorrigible, it well becomes the rest of your book joining violence to slander. But are you yourself wholly conformable Mr B? If not, why do you incense the magistrate against us being yourself obnoxious to his displeasure? Or do you not hope to escape persecution yourself by persecuting us? This is too ordinary a practice amongst you. But the Lord seeth your halting, and rewardeth you in your bosoms, as you have served us. And when you and others more forward than you do consider & feel in what hatred you are with the King and state, me thinks your hearts should smite you, as the hearts of Joseph's brethren did them in their trouble for their barbarous cruelty towards him. Gen. 42. Our sixth sin by retail Mr B. makes our railing and scoffing, and in Mr B. particular H. Barrowes blasphemies, etc. whose repentance he would have us publish to the world If I should answerably require of you the publication of the Answ. repentance of your Clergy not only for the cruel speakings, but even for the wicked deeds, which ungodly they have committed against Christ in his servants, and ordinances, it were an hard tax put upon you. Yea to spare you for other men, do you but publish your own repentance for the same ●innes (wherein you are deeply set) and without doubt your godly example shall provoke many to the like. And for Mr Barrow, as I say with Mr Ainsworth, that I will not justify all the words of an other man no● yet mine own, so say I also with Mr Smyth, that because I know not by what particular motion of the spirit he was guided to write in those phrases, I dare not censure him as you do: especially considering with what fiery zeal the Lord hath furnished such his servants at all times, as he hath stirred up for special reformation. Let the example of Luther alone suffice, whom into what terms his zeal carried, his writings testify. And yet both in him, and in Mr Barrow there might be with true spiritual zeal fleshly indignation mingled. And though this in general might be sufficient, yet for the stopping of your mouth Mr B. and for the satisfying of others, I will descend a little to the very particulars, which you have c●lled out against Mr Barrow as most odious. First than you fault him that he calls your Bishop's Antichristian proud Prelates, and the tail of the beast, etc. And what are they but Antichristian, if their office be against Christ, and his ordinances in the visible Church? And what else do all the reformed Churches abroad and reformists at home judge, speak, & write of them? And what thought you Mr B. otherwise of them, when even since you dealt against this cause of separation, you affirmed before many witnesses that there was not a place in the new testament against Antichrist, but you could apply it against them? And because you are come to this height of boldness & depth of dissembling, I will here insert briefly certain reasons which I received from yourself in writing to prove the Bishop's Antichristian, and that word for word as I have reserved them by me to this day. 1. The fruits of the Hierarchy are contrary to Christ. 2. It forbids many good means of religion as prophesying etc. Mr B. 3. It keeps in and nourisheth offenders against painful labourers. 4. It excommunicates the godly, yea for a word, and that ips● facto. 5. It is lordly and tyr●●mous contrary to 1 Pet. 5. 1. 2. 3. Luk. ●2. 25. 6. It rules by Popish laws and by the power of man which ar● carnal weapons. 7. It remits the offenders for m●ny, though ●e repent not. 8. It establisheth an universal Bishop as well as a Diosesan, or Provincial Bishop. And as I remember at the same time you brought forth D. Downame in his first book proving the Pope Antichrist, ch. 4. affirming, that the Hierarch in the Romish Church was Antichristian, whereof I am sure the the Bishop's office is a part. These reasons I thought good to set down not because they are all, or some of them of the best, that can be brought, but because they are yours, which notwithstanding I am persuaded neither you nor any other can satisfy. And if Mr B. himself thus write and speak in private, why blames he us for our public testimony? Now if the Bishops be Antichristian and so the spirit of Devil's Rev. 16. 14. why might not Mr Barrow affirm their Ministry and ministration to be of and by the Devil? and what are they but either the tail, or some other limb of the beast? And for their excommunications by name, it is evident by this they are not of God, for that the most religious in the kingdom make least account of them. For their Luciferian pride whereof Mr Barrow accuseth them it is apparent they burden the earth, & threaten the heavens with it▪ for their hateful Simony both in giving, and receiving, they are so notorious, as the best service Mr B. can do them in this case is, to turn men's thoughts from those evils which every eye sees, & every heart abhors. touching the Ghost the Bishop gives in his blasphomous imitation of Christ, joh. 20. 22. (except contrary to the rule in nature, nihil d●● quod non habet, he can give that he hath not) it is not very likely he should give the Holy Ghost▪ why then might not Mr Barrow call it an unholy Ghost. And for the Bible in the Bishop's hands which he gives his Priests in ordination, Mr Barrow calls it the libel not in contempt of the book, but in reproof of the ceremony, & that justly since the Lord never appointed the scriptures for any such use, nor any such ceremony in the ordination of his Ministers. Christ, and the Apostles would have such Ministers ordained as have the Bibles in their hearts: the Bishops of England to supply this want give it into the hands of their Priests which they think sufficient, though in truth the most of them are more used to handle a pair of cards upon an alebench, than the holy bible. Your Patron's Mr Barrow calls great Baal's, & Lord Patrons; and justly in respect of that Lordly power they use in obtruding their Clerks upon the Parish assemblies: your ministers yea all and every one of them Priests, which is their proper name given them both in your book of ordination, and common prayer: your Deacons half-preists according to the nature of their office, betwixt which & the Deacons office in the new testament, Act. 6. 1. 2. 3. 4. there is no consimilitude. For the other more harsh terms wherewith he enterteynes such persons and things in the Church as carry with them most appearance of holiness, they are to be interpreted according to his meaning, and a distinction used by Mr B. in † pag. 79. another place is here to be applied. Which is that Mr Barrow speaks not of these persons, and things simply, but in a respect, & so, & so considered, & so no one term given by Mr Barrow to my knowledge, but may (at the least) be tolerated. The Ministers (as they receive the wages of unrighteousness, o● counsel to spiritual fornication) are B●l●●mites; in respect of th●ir office vowed to destruction, Canaanites; as they plead for confusion Babylonish divines: as they endeavour to stay God's people in Egypt▪ spiritually so called) Egyptian enchanters: as they are members of the Hierarchy 〈◊〉 of the Devil, by virtue whereof he bear great sway, as the * Preface to the Discov. of D. Ban. slanders. reformists amongst you have expressly testified. And for your very divine exercise● of prayer, preaching▪ sacr●●●t●, & surging of psalms howsoever they be good & holy in themselves, or at leas● have much good in them, yet in respect of the unhallowed communion, forged ministry, and superstitious order wherein these, and all other things with you are ministered and exercised, they are liable to the heaviest censure Mr Barrow hath put upon them. And for the most forward preachers in the kingdom, considering their unsound and broken courses in denying, that in deed and practice, which in w●rd and writing▪ they profess to be the revealed will o● God, and inviolable testament of Christ, binding his Church for ever, yea and practising the contrary in the face of the s●nne, committing two evils, forsaking the Lord the fountain of l●ving water to dig themselves broken pits which will hold no water, yea not only refusing themselves to enter into the kingdom of God the Church, but also hindering them that would, & persecuting them that do, and lastly considering them in their unconscionable defence for their own standings and practices, as that only the godly in the parish are of the Church with them: that they hold and use their ministry by the acceptation of the people, and not by the Bishops; that they obey the Bishops in their citations, suspensions, excommunications and absolutions, a● they are civil magistrates, and ●he like, they do deserve a sharper medicine, then happily they are willing to endure. Yea the very personal graces of knowledge, zeal, p●●ience & the like manifested in many both ministers, and people, are most unjustly perverted, and misused to the obduration and hardening both of the persons themselves, & others in most deceivable ways, wherein the deepest mystery of iniquity, and most effectual delusion of Satan that can be, worketh, as is by Mr Barrow and others clearly discovered. But that Mr Barrow should say that the preaching of God's word, & ●●e spirits effectual working should make men the children of hell and two fold ●orse than b●fore is a great slander, and could not possibly enter into his or any other godly man's heart. And so I leave these and the like more unsavoury-seeming speeches of M● Barrow to the wise and Christian readers charitable interpretation. The last rank of Mr B. reasons followeth which respect the matter▪ of our sep●●●tion (by him called schism) which how material they are shall appear in their place. Our first error according to his reckoning is. Mr B. They hold that the constitution of our Church is a fals● constitution. And let us see how strongly your answer forces us from this Answ. our hold. 1. Arg. They cannot prove this simply by any plain doctrine of scripture, Mr B. and that which they would prove is but only respectively, and so may any thing, and their Church also be condemned. 2. Arg. It is against the evidence of the scriptures which maketh the word, external profession, and sacraments the visible constitution, etc. That you then affirm in the first place is, that we cannot prove this Answer. simply by any plain doctrine, wherein you do half confess that we do it by just consequence, though not by plain doctrine, & wholly, that respectively, and so & so considered (as you speak) your constitution is false. And thus (you say) any thing may be condemned. But first it is not true that any thing may be condemned after this sort. The constitution of the Ch: Apostolic could in no consideration be condemned, neither could ours (to our knowledge) being according to that pattern, how weakly soever we walk in it. Secondly, the constitution even of Rome (as now it stands) is not simply false, but only in this & that respect. So far as it separates fro heathenish Idolatry, & Idolaters unto the true God, & reteynes any truths of God & remainders of Christ's testament, so far it is not false, or feigned, and yet is her present constitution false & she uncapable of the Lords covenant. To come nearer the matter. The constitution of the Church is the orderly collection and conjunction of the saints into & in the covenant of the new Testament: 〈◊〉 the saints are the matter, the covenant the form, from which two concurring, the Church ariseth, and is by them constituted. Now for the word, it is an outward instrument preparing, and preserving the matter, but no more the constitution of the Church than the axe is the constitution or frame of the house: and for external profession it manifests the fitness of the matter for the form, and by it the saints enter covenant? which covenant also the sacraments confirm as s●ales annexed to that end. And where Mr B. affirmeth we cannot prove their Church constition false by any plain doctrine of scripture, we will consider the scriptures he himself allegeth, and the doctrine of them which as so many touchstones do discover the counterfeit constitution of the same. The word (saith he) is the constitution of the Church: His meaning is, or should be at the least, that the word is the ordinary outward means for the collecting, and constituting of the Church of God▪ I grant it. But how considered? Not the word in men's bibles alone▪ for then all the Haeretiques in the world are true Ch: nor yet the word preached simply, for * Act: 17. ●2. 23. 32. Paul preached the word to the scoffing Athenians, & † Act. 19 ●. 9 to the blasphemous jews, yet I think he will not say that either the one or the other were Churches truly constituted. How then? the word published understood, believed, and obeyed outwardly at the least, as the spiritual sword, or axe, hewing the stones in the rock, and trees in the forest, and preparing them to be the Lords spiritual house. And thus much " 1 Pet. 2. ● the very places produced by Mr B: (like Golyahs' sword drawn out to cut off his own sword) do evidently declare. Math. 28. 19 (which is the first place), shows that such as by preaching of the word were made disciples, for so much ‘ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. the word importeth, were to be gathered into the Church & baptized. Mar. 16. 15. shows the same, especially if you add vers. 16. inferring that men by preaching must believe, and so believe, as they have the promise of salvation, which I note the rather to show the vanity of that verbal profession in a profane conversation, which else where Mr B. makes so much of. The places 2 Cor. 5. 19 & 11. 2. cited by you do prove that the wor● of reconciliation and ministry of the gospel believed & obeyed to the forgiveness of sins and to the preparation & sanctification of the Church to Christ is the means of gathering and building up the same, to which that of job. 33. 23. 24. consorteth. The two places Act. 2. 14. 37. 38. 41. and 16. ●2. 32. 34. are of the same 〈◊〉 with the former and do prov● that sundry of the jews at jerusalem by Peter's preaching and that the tailors' household at Philippi by Paul's preaching were brought to repentance, and faith in Christ, and so added to the Church. But what willbe the conclusion of all these premises? The Proposition is this. The true Apostolic Churches having a true constitution were gathered & constituted of such men and women as by the preaching of the gospel were made disciples, had faith and repentance wrought in them to the obtaining of the forgiveness of sins, & promise of life eternal and to sanctification and obedience. Now though my logic be not much better than yours Mr B. yet since my cause is, I will help you with an assumption or 2. Proposition. But the Church of England was not so gathered after Popery, but on the contrary without preaching of the gospel, & of men & women for the most part ignorant, faithless mispenitent disobedient, to whom no promise of the forgiveness of sins, & life eternal appert●ynes: whereupon the conclusion necessarily followeth, that the constitution of the Church of England is not true or Apostolic, but false counterfeit and apostatical. Secondly the scriptures (saith Mr B.) make external profession the visible constitution of the Church. His meaning must be, that profession of faith is required of such persons of years before they be admitted into the visible Church. Which truth the place cited by him Act. 8. 12. 37. 38. doth justify, to which one place many other may be added to the same purpose, as Act. 10. 46. & & 16. ●4, & 18. 8. But what is the Church of Worxsop better for this? what profession of faith did the particular members make, when at the first of an Antichristian Synagogue (as in Popery it was), it became or was constituted a true Christian Church? was not the house built at the first as it is at this day repaired? Let a man but hire a house within the precincts of your parish, & he is a joined member in your Ch: ipso facto, though he cannot manifest the least kernel of faith, or repentance, yea though he profess himself an atheist, horetick, sorcerer, blasphemer (or that which is worse if worse can be). All you do is to use the wooden dagger Mr Barrow tells you of, to suspend him from the Lords supper, & it may be to get him excommunicated by the official, (if he have neither friends nor money.) And this very excommunication shows him to have been a member of you, for only a brother is to be excommunicated, Math. 18. 15. 16. 17 and only he that was within, may be cast out, 1 Cor. 5. 12. 13. And here, as before I will help to form your argument. The members of the Apostolic Church which were truly constituted were admitted by their personal profession of faith, and confession of sin, Math. 3. 6. Act. 8. 37. 38. and 10. 46. & 16. 14. & 1●. ●. & 19 18. But the members of the Engl. assemblies neither were nor are so admitted, but according to the parish perambulation whatsoever impiety they profess. Therefore their constitution is proved false by the evidence brought to justify it. Lastly for the sacraments, as they are not the constitution of the Church, but do necessarily presuppose a Church constituted unto which they are committed as † Act. 7. 38. Rom. 9 4. the oracles and ordinances of God unto Israel, so is not the Church of England the Israel of God, the seed of Abraham, a peculiar people unto the Lord, but a mingled seed, as Ezra, 9 1. 2. uncapable of the sacraments the seals of the covenant of grace. And the places Mr B. brings forth are so far from justifying the constitution of the Church of England by the sacraments, as they do most notably evince the profanation of the sacraments by the Church. The two places are Mat. 28. 19 1 Cor. 10. 16. In the former the Lord jesus sends his Apostles first to teach, or make men disciples, and then to baptize them (including the children in the parents according to the covenant made with Abraham into which the gentiles were in their time to be gathered. Rom. 11. 17. Ephe. 2. 1, 2. 13. 14. & 3. 6.) But on the contrary the Lord Bishops in Engl. having found a readier way send out their parish priests to baptize all before them that are borne in their parishes, whether their parents be taught or untaught, the disciples of Christ or of antichrist, and the Devil, not passing by the children of recusant Papists & others refusing all communion with them, whose children they use to baptise by force, & against the will of their Parents, as I could prove (if need were) by sundry instances. And is not here an orderly constitution, and a Church truly gathered by the sacrament of baptism? Now 1 Cor. 10. 16. the Apostle teacheth that the bread and wine in the supper are the communion of the body and blood of Christ, that is effectual pledges of our conjunction, and incorporation with Christ, and one with another: and in the 17. vers. that all which eat of one bread, or one loaf, are one mystical body. This place alone if Mr B. and his fellow ministers would seriously conconsider and set themselves faithfully to observe they would rather offer their own bodies to be torn in pieces by wild beasts, than the holy mysteries of Christ's body to be profaned, as they are. And here as formerly I will help the Arguments raised from the scriptures produced by Mr B. and some other of the same kind into form thus. The sacrament of baptism is to be administered by Christ's appointment, and the Apostles example only to such as are (viz externally and so far as men can judge) taught and made disciples, Mat. 28. 19 do receive the word gladly, Act. 2. 41. believe and so profess Ch. 8. 12. 13. 37. have received the holy Ghost Ch. 10. 47. and to their seed. Act. 2. 39 1 Cor. 7. 14. But baptism in Engl. is ministered by a far larger commission than Christ's: though there be in the parents neither appearance of faith nor holiness, if in stead of them they can procure godfathers and godmothers to carry the children to the font (yea will they nile they) the parish priest hath commission to make them Christian souls every mother's child of them, borne within his parish precincts. And therefore the baptism in Engl. is not Christ's baptism in the administration of it. For the Lords supper the Apostle saith, 1 Cor. 10. 16. that the bread and wine sanctified to that purpose is the communion, that is, an effectual symbol or pledge of that communion which the receivers have with Christ. Whereupon I do turn the point of this scripture into the bowels of the Church of Engl. thus. That which joins such men in communion with Christ as by his express word he excludes from all communion with him, that is so far from being the true constitution of the Church as it shows both an unholy confusion in the Church and a violent profanation of the ordinance by it. But the supper as it is ministered in the Parish-assemblies, (as they were at the first, & still are clapped together) joins them with Christ with whom he expressly disclaims all communion & fellowship as their practice compared with these scriptures doth make manifest to all men. 2 Cor. 6. 14. 15. 1 joh. 1. 6. Ergo. So that baptism and the Lords supper are amongst you Mr B. and in your hands & handling, but as the holy vessels of the temple in Babylon & there together with the Lords people detained by fraud and violence. Our 2. supposed error is thus laid down. Mr B. They hold our constitution a real Idol, and so us Idolaters. If the constitution of your Church be false and forged, (like Answ. * 1 King. 12. 33. the month which jeroboam forged in his own heart) as hath been formerly proved in part, and shallbe more fully in the traversing of the 8. error, than it is an Idol, if an Idol, a real Idol, for it is not merely mental, or notional, but that which hath being and existence without the mind or understanding. And where Mr B. affirms this to be contrary to the course of holy scriptures never taking Idol in this sense, because neither he nor Marlorat finds the word Idol so used, he must know it is as impossible for either him, or Marl. or any other man to enumerate or reckon up all the Idols whereof the scriptures speak, though not in express terms yet by just consequence & proportion) as to number all the creatures in heaven and in earth, yea all the works of men's hands, yea all the thoughts of their hearts, for all these may and do in some abuse become Idols. And that we may better discern whether there be a like truth and boldness in this assertion that the scriptures never take idol in this sense, let us consider and compare together a few places. The Lord commanded Moses, Exod. 25. & 26. & 27. to make the tabernacle and sanctuary of the Lord for the place of his dwelling and worship, and to this end did appoint both the matter▪ and form of the whole work even to the least pin: & if Moses had framed it, either of other matter, or of the same matter after an other fashion, had not this forgery and devise for the worship of God been a real, sensible, and palpable Idol, a sin against the second Commandment which forbids nothing but Idolatry? It cannot be denied. Hence it followeth that the constitution or frame of the tabernacle or temple of the new testament, which is the visible Church 2 Cor. 6. 16. if it be other either in matter or form (as yours is in both) is a real and substantial Idol. Secondly Antichristianism is Idolatry, and is in that respect called † Rev. 118. and 14. 8. Babylon, Sodom, and Egypt spiritually, so Antichristians are said * Ch. 14. 9 to worship the beast: now a devised constitution, frame and fabric of the Church is a part of antichristianism, & of the apostasy of Antichrist & therefore a real Idol: and as Mr Smyth truly affirmeth a greater Idol then either the Antichristian ministry or worship. As “ Mat. 23. 17. 1●. the temple which sanctifieth the gold is greater than the gold, & the altar which sanctifieth the offering greater than the offering, so the temple of the new testament, the Church or people of God by whose faith all the ordinances of the Church are sanctified, is greater than the ministry, worship or any other ordinance: and so on the contrary being Idolatrous, a greater Idol than they. And lastly the Church being the end of the ordinances, Mar. 2. 27. 28. is more excellent than they being true, and being false a more detestable Idol than any of them. Lastly neither your bolstering out of a false constitution as a new sin shall excuse you for not submitting unto a true, nor your profane scoffing at a true constitution as at the Diana of the Ephesians discourage us from rejoicing in our portion. It is with you in this case as it was sometimes with Rechum & Shimshay who making a show as though they would have built the temple Zerubbabel (but not being the men to whom this work appertained) laboured afterwards to hinder & discourage him, & the jews with him whom it did concern. Ezra. 4. 1, 2, 3. 8. 9 Once you know Mr B. you did separate from the rest an hundred voluntary professors into covenant with the Lord, sealed up with the Lords supper, to forsake all known sin, to hear no wicked or dumb Ministers, and the like, which covenant long since you have dissolved, not shaming to affirm you did it only in policy to keep your people from Mr Smyth. Well Mr B. be not deceived God is not mocked, neither will he hold them guiltless that so take his name in vain, but as you have sown so shall you reap. To conclude, you would have no man blame you for your contumelies against the † Isa. 5. 7. planting of the Lords vineyard, the * 1 Tim. 3. 15. building of God's house, the “ Eph. 2. 23 composition of Christ's body, the constitution of his Church. And wherefore? because Mr Robinson held as much before into separation. And if it were so, should mine iniquities excuse yours? But it is most untrue you affirm. There never entered into my heart a thought, nor passed a word out of my mouth so contumelious against the true & orderly constitution of Christ's Church: though I have (and that worthily) disliked, (as I still do) that hard & rash censure passed by some upon the persons of such as of whom the Lord by the evident work of his spirit gives a better testimony. And for the point in hand, I am persuaded and so profess before all men that I see not by the revealed will of God in his word how to judge otherwise of any ordinance of the Church, or exercise of communion out of a true constituted Church then of the sacrifices out of the tabernacle or temple, within whose circle they were concluded by the word of God. The third error is thus set down. That such as are not of a particular constituted Church (to wit such a one Mr B. as theirs is) are no subjects of Christ's kingdom. And since our Church is a particular congregation separated Answ. from Antichristianism, into covenant with God by voluntary submission unto the gospel, we do avow it for truth that such ●● are not of a particular etc. For since the visible Church is the visible or external † Math. 21 43. joh. 10 16. kingdom of Christ which he as mediator collecteth, protecteth, and administereth, he that is not a member of the visible Church is not in this regard a subject of Christ's kingdom. Neither are your exceptions 1 Cor. 15. 24. against this doctrine of any force. The scripture (you say in the first place) never sets forth any of God's people by this mark. Yes that it doth and that oft times without any other mark. How oft doth Moses, and the other Prophets with him entreat the Lord to spare Israel when they sinned, for their constitution, that is for the covenant of his mercy into which he had admitted them with their forefathers Abraham, Isaak, and jaakob? The Lord protesteth Is. 1. that Israel did rebel against him, that they did not understand, but were a most sinfid nation, yea as Sodom & Gomorrah, and yet he calls them children & his people. v. 1. 2. 3. 4. 10. yea passing Sodom in iniquity, and yet the daughter of his people, & daughter Zion, Lam. 4. 6. 22. And what do these and infinite other the like places but conclude that where there was little or nothing else to be seen, the Lord marked out his people by this, that he had † Deut. 29. 12. 13. established them a people unto himself by covenant which though they for their part had broken by their iniquities, yet was for the present on his part undissolved? And where it is granted by Mr B. that the godly aught to join with the visible Church if possibly they can, why doth he blame us which intent no further? If men truly desire it but cannot possibly accomplish it, the Lord in this as in other cases, accepts the will for the deed. And so I answer your 3. Exception in order touching the martyrs in Queen mary's days and other godly persons there named, that some of them were members of the true visible Church actually, others actually separated from the false Church, and in will (which God accepteth) joineth with the true Church, & others walking faithfully according to their knowledge whether living or dead, are and were God's people, though in Babylon. Your second exception is certain scriptures to which (you say) this doctrine is contrary. The first is Gal. 3. 7. 9 And how to this? They that are of the faith of Abraham separate themselves by faith from the world into covenant with the Lord, as Abraham did Gen. 12. 1. 2. 3. Heb. 11. ●. To the 2. place which is 1 joh. 3. 14. I do answer that john speaks of such as were of the true visible Church; neither can any other, according to the true visibility & manifestation of the love which the Lord requireth, love his brother, which is not of a true visible Church. He that doth not admonish his brother (if he offend) after that order, and in those degrees, which the word prescribeth, doth not love his brother. Lev. 19 17. But only he that is of a true visible Church and that furnished with the power of Christ, the keys of the kingdom for the censures, can admonish his brother in that order and those degrees which the word prescribeth, Mat. 18. 15. 16. 17. And so this scripture Mr B. overthrows both your opinion, and standing. The third scripture is 1 Cor. 1. 1. Paul writeth there only to visible Churches, to the Church of Corinth primarily and so by proportion to all other visible Churches in the world, for to them alone the censures, sacraments, prophesying, and other matters there handled, do appertain. 1 Cor. 5. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. and 11. 20. and 14. 4. 5. The brother spoken of in the fourth and last place which is 2 Th. 3. 15. was a member of the visible Church and subject of Christ's kingdom, though walking inordinately in his calling as appeareth, v. 11. and therefore to be discountinanced and made ashamed by the Church that he might the more faithfully apply himself to his business. These scriptures than do none of them wash this mark, from of God's people, but some of them, if not all, print it far more deeply upon them. Lastly you ask whither Christ's kingdom be not spiritual, and invisible Mr B. also? job: 18. 33. and 10. 16. Answ. No man will deny it (though the places you allege do not so necessary prove it). But as Christ's kingdom is spiritual and invisible also, so is it spiritual and visible also. The † 1 Cor. 2. 15. man which hath received the spirit, is spiritual, and not the soul only. So external things may be spiritual & are in their relaton & use and you err, if you think otherwise. The * Rom. 1. 11. and 15. 27. 1 Cor. 10 3. 4. word, sacraments, & other ordinances of the Church are spiritual, yea all the “ Rom. 12. 1▪ Heb. 13. 15. 26. 1 Pet. 2. 5. sacrifices, of the faithful are spiritual, & more specially, as the Lord jesus is the Priest both of the soul & body & † 1 Cor. 6. 20. hath paid a price for both, so is he also the King both of soul & body and sways the sceptre of his kingdom not only internally by his spirit in the soul, but externally, and visibly also by this word in the outward man, guiding the same by his lawful officers depu●ed there unto. But what is the cause why Mr B. should move this question? Is it not for that himself and his Church not having Christ to rule over them by his laws but other kings and Lords by their canons, he would insinuate that Christ exerciseth none external regiment over his Church, nor is the King over the bodies of his subjects at all, thus rather labouring to abolish that part of Christ's Kingdom then to submit to it. But as our principal care at all times must be to have the throne of our L. jesus erected in our hearts, that he may reign there, so, that we may give him his own entire, & that which he hath so dearly bought, we must rank our bodies also under the regiment he hath established for the well ordering & preservation of his kingdom forever both in soul & body, & not like Nichodemites, or Familists presume to submit the outward man we care not to whom, or what. Our fourth supposed error is. Mr B. That all not in their way are without, and they do apply against us 1 Cor. 5. 12. Ephe. 2 12. And since the way is one as Christ is one, and we assured, that our way is that way of Christ, we doubt not to affirm that all not Answ. in our way are without in the present respect; provided always that we do judge that other Churches may be and are in our way, and we in theirs, and both they and we in Christ's, though there be betwixt them & us sundry differences both in judgement and practice. And that we do fitly apply against you the scriptures above named, I do thus manifest. The Apostle 1 Cor. 5. reproves the Church for tolerating amongst them the incestuous person uncensured, charging them to use the power of the Lord jesus given unto them, for that purpose, and that as upon him for the present, so upon other notorious offenders at other times. Now lest they should mistake his meaning he shows how far this his advertisement extends, viz: to such offenders as were in the Church and to all, and only them. And this limitation of the power of Christ to the proper object, he sets down in this 12. verse, affirmatively, to them that are within, and negatively, to them that are without. From this place than I do thus reason. They that are within are subject to the power of excommunication by the Church gathered together in the name of Christ, they without not. But you Mr B. and so of the rest, are not subject to the judgement of the Church thus gathered together, but to the Archbishop of York, Who is not the Church of Workxsop. Therefore you are not within but without in the Apostles meaning. The second place we apply against you is, Ephe. 2. 12. whence I reason thus. They that are aliens and strangers from the common wealth of Israel, are without. But such are you, and your whole parish. Ergo. The first Proposition is the Apostles words: for to be without Christ (as there he speaks) and to be a stranger from the common wealth of Israel, is all one. The second Proposition is thus confirmed. The common wealth of Israel was a religious policy consisting of a peculiar people, of whom every one was by the word of God separated into the covenant of his mercy Deut. 29. 10. 11. 12. 13. Neh. 10. 1. 28. 29. But to affirm that every person in the Church of England, or in any parish Church is admitted by the Lord into the new covenant or testament, is both against the express word of God, Heb. 8. 8. 9 10. 11. 12. and his own conscience (I am persuaded) that affirmed it. And thus so long as you keep your standing, you must be content to stand without in the meaning of the Apostle in the places forenamed, neither can you writhe in yourself, or corrupt these places to get in by them, though you give sundry attempts. as 1. These places are meant of such as never made so much as an outward profession of Christ at all: What better are men for professing God in word when in deed Answ. they deny him? They are never a whit the less but the more abominable. Tit. 1. 16. And might not any Papist or other heretic make this exception? For they make a kind of profession of Christ jesus. And when you Mr B. in your pulpit thunder the judgements of God out of the Prophets and Apostles against Atheists, Papists, blasphemers, proud and cruel persecuters, might not a man serve you as you do us, and tell you that the most of the threatenings you denounce were directed against the Heathen which did not so much as make an outward profession of Christ. Lastly the H. Ghost terming Antichristianisme Babylon, Sodom, Egypt, spiritually teacheth us to apply against it spiritually what the Prophets have civilly spoken against them. Mr B. 2. They cannot prove us without by the scripture, expounding this phrase without by the scriptures, laying a side the forgeryes of their own brains. The cause is plain that whosoever i● not a free deni●en of the common Answ. wealth of Israel, and under the judgement of the Church is without, and there must stand by God's appointment. And that this is your estate is as plain. And both these we have proved by the scriptures without forgeryes of our own brain; all the brains you have will find no forgeryes in our proofs. 3 God almighty hath witnessed that we are his people. Mr B. 1 By giving us his word, Psal. 14. 7. 19 20. and sacraments. This scripture proves that God gave his word to jaakob, & statutes Answ. to Israel, but prove yourselves the Israel of God; show us from the word of God the charter of your corporation, & that your national, Provintiall, Diocesan, and Parochial Churches are that new jerusalem, and your inhabitants the right Citzens of that City enfranchised with her heavenly liberties, and answer the proofs brought to the contrary, otherwise though you be never so shameless a beggar of the question in hand, we may not grant it you. Mr B. 2 By God's effectual working by his word, jer. 23. 22. therefore heard ●● the voice of the son of God, joh. 5. 25. and the words of eternal life. God forbid I should deny either the truths of Christ you have a Answ. 'mongst you, or any good effect, which God hath wrought by them, but this I deny, that either they are or have been so effectual as to make any one of your parish assemblies the Church of Christ truly gathered & constituted. And for the place of jeremy 23. 22. which as here to prove a true church, so every where to prove a true ministry by the effectual work thereof is so frequently alleged, I desire it may be well considered & it will appear that the Prophet speaks not at all of the effect of prophesying, but of the drift, & intent of the Prophets, which (had they taken counsel of the Lord) would not have flattered the people in their sins, by preaching peace peace, as they did, thereby hardening their hearts and strengthening their hands in their disobedience, and rebellion, but would on the contrary by denouncing against them the judgements of God, have endeavoured their repentance, as the true Prophets did. And if we must thus judge of true, and false prophets by the effects of their ministry certain it is that neither Ezechiel no jeremy himself stood in God's counsel, but were false Prophets, for neither of them were effectual for the people's conversion, jer. 20 7. 8. Ezech: 3: 7. 11. And yet a wonder it is to hear what a noise Mr B. and his people do make with this scripture of jeremy, as though it did without contradiction justify both Church and Ministry by some ministerial effect where it is most plain to all that but read the Chapter with any observation, that the Prophet speaks not a word of the effect of their ministery, but of the drift of the ministers the false Prophets desperately slattring the people to their destruction. 3 By Gods most strange and miraculous deliverance of us from the Mr B. enemies of his gospel: a promise of God to his people. Lev. 26. 7. 8. Deut. 28. 7▪ These deliverances do no more justify your estate before the Answ. Lord, than the † 1 Kin. 20. 13. 14. 15. deliverance of Samaria out of the hands of the Aramites did the ten tribes in their Apostasy. The Lord doth promise victory, and deliverance unto his people in their just quarrels, and use of good means, but ever with condition of his glory, and their good. And they thus walking, and being thus delivered take experience of the truth of his promises, and have cause of rejoicing in the God of their salvation; but besides this there are many other causes of deliverance and victory which with all other things of the same kind, † come alike to Eccles. 9 2. all men good & bad; and thus to measure the Lords love by morsels bewrays too carnal a mind in any man: and Mr B. neighbour minister (if he have a fatter benefice than he) may aswell avouch himself a better minister, for the quoted scriptures do as well promise plenty and abundance as deliverance and victory. And where in the last place you lay to our charge, that though we like it well that you should call us brethren, yet we will not so acknowledge you, nor do we hold ourselves bound so to admonish you, I do answer, that as we find at your hands Mr B. little brotherly dealing (traducing us in all places as Brownists, Schismatics, Anabaptists, & persons obstinate in sin) so neither indeed can we acknowledge any of you for brethren in that visible communion of Saints which is the Church, notwithstanding the loving and respective remembrance wherein we have very many amongst you severally considered for your personal graces. Our reasons are these. 1. We cannot admonish any of you according to the rule & order of Christ, Math. 18. to which duty towards every brother in communion we are absolutely bound. 2. We can not acknowledge you for our brethrens, but we must also acknowledge your Prelates for our reverend fathers, under whose blessings we mean not to come. 3. We cannot acknowledge some of you brethren, but we must acknowledge all amongst you for such: for there is but one brotherhood of all amongst you, as your own rhyme teacheth (and makest us all one brotherhood). Now by the scriptures we have not The Lord's prayer in Rhyme: learned to enter any such fraternity, where we must acknowledge brother Priest, brother half Priest, brother dumb Priest, brother Atheist, brother Epicure, brother drunkard, brother blasphemer, brother witch, brother conjurer, & lastly brother recusant Papist, if not living yet dead, for so you must bury him as your dear brother, committing his soul to God, and his body to the earth. And for these causes among others, we cannot acknowledge you (as we desire) in that special fellowship of the gospel, & communion of saints. But disclaim you the fatherhood of the Prelates, the brotherhood of the unhallowed multitude, and fest yourselves in the family, and household of God, and we will acknowledge you in word and deed. We will not with that ungodly brother grudge your coming into our father's house, but will help with our own hands to kill the fat calf, & will make all spiritual melody with you in the Lord. The fifth error reputed is, That only Saints, that is, a people forsaking all known sin of which Mr B. they may be convinced, doing all the known will of God, increasing and abiding ever therein are the only matter of the visible Church. This Position, which you account error, rightly understood, Answ. and according to his exposition from whom you received it, is an undoubted truth. For of such only (externally, and so far as men can judge) the true Church is gathered, whether out of Paganism, judaism, Antichristianism, or any other Idolatrous, or adulterous estate whatsoever, and of them alone framed, as of the subject matter: which is only true, whilst it continueth such, & false when it degenerates from this disposition, and so as rotten & putrefied stuff to be cast out of the Church. We will then come to your allegations to the contrary. And first you say, this is a proper description of the invisible members Mr B. of jesus Christ, secluding even hypocrites from being true matter of the visible Church. All the true and lawful members of the visible Church, are to Answ. me members of the invisible Church, to me, Isay, which am bound to judge them to be in truth, as outwardly they appear: & so I am taught by the Apostle himself who accounts the whole visible Ch: and every member of it † Act. 20. 28. 1 Cor. 1. 2. Ephe. 1. 3. 4. 5. Gal. 3. 27. Phil. 1. 4. 5. 6. 7. elect, redeemed, justified sanctified, which are conditons competent to the invisible Church. And for hypocrites, as they may perform all the conditions here required (visible or to us) as Mr Smyth hath answered, so do we take knowledge of none such in the Chur: in the particular, till they be known in their day by the outbreakings of sin, and being so discovered, they are no longer to be retained in the Church, but to bear their sin, except they repent, and then who can repute them hypocrites? You object secondly, that this makes that David, jehoshaphat, Mr B. and the Church of God in their days were no true matter of a Church, for there was marrying many wives, the continuance of the high places, the brazen serpent worshipped, joabs murder permitted, the bill of divorsement allowed by Moses: so after Corinth and the Church of Asia being admonished repented not, 2 Cor. 12. 21. Rev. 2. 20. 21. To let pass here Mr Smiths erroneous and Anabaptistical answer, Answ. wherein he makes the constitution of the jewish Church the constitution of the old testament, when as the Church of the jews was constituted in “ Gen. 17. Rom. 5. 20 Gal. 3. 17. 19 Abraham 400 & 30 years before the law or old testament was given, which was after added clean for an other end then to constitute a Church: the ordinances and communion he makes merely ceremonial and carnal, which the scriptures expressly call † 1 Cor. 10. 4. spiritual, whereof also prayer & prophesying were parts, neither are our ordinances more spiritual ',' Luk. 22. 19 remembrances of Christ come, than were theirs in their true and natural relation, spiritual * Heb. 10. 1 shadows of Christ to come. I do answer to the exception, first that you cannot prove the holy men you name to have sinned in all the particulars wherewith you charge them, as Moses in tolerating the bill of divorcement which you injuriously affirm he allowed, much less can you prove they were convinced of sin in suffering these things, and yet suffered them. Nay is it not your own doctrine, that grace, and continuance in sin without repentance cannot stand together? But what countenance do the infirmities of these holy men give to the profane and graceless multitude against whom we deal? and whom alone we cast out of the account of Saints? with what conscience or colour can any man bring in the infirmities of Moses, David, and jehoshaphat to plead the Saintship of all that godless crew in the English assemblies? And for the Churches of Corinth, & Thyatira, either they did repent upon admonition, though not at the first, or else the Lord in his time discharged them, as he threatened in the same, & the like cases. Rev. 2. 5. 16. 21. 22. & 3. 15. 16. The third exception is that the scriptures we bring are places speaking Mr B. of invisible members properly, of visible figuratively, as they are judged to be, on in hope they may be, or showing what men ought to be, but show not that men are so, or else are not God's people. It cannot be manifested that we bring one scripture meant of Answ. the invisible Church, to prove the holiness of the visible Church. The vanity of this objection hath been discovered in the exposition of that your picked instance, 1 Pet. 2. It is true indeed that the scriptures we cite speak of men as they are judged to be, and if you would grant, that only they are true members of the Church which by the word of God, (which must be the rule of our judgement) may be judged saints, it would end this controversy. And even for them without, though never so profane, they ought to be holy, and there is hope they may be holy, but God's people must be such as they ought to be in some measure, & so are all they whom he receives into covenant with him, and if they fall from their righteousness and will not be reclaimed, they are to be put * 1 Cor. 5. 4. 5. out and to be delivered to Satan, whose vassals they are, and not God's people any longer. Mr B. In the 4. place you come to speak of this saint-ship in question negatively, and affirmatively. First you deny men to be called saints in scripture, either for soundness of knowledge, for proof of which you allege the ignorance of Christ's disciples and others, Act. 19 1. 2. or for internal pure affections, for then (say you) Paul had been no saint, Rom. 7. Answ. 18. 21. or for holy practice of their duty always: for which you quote Est. 7. 12. Which is all one as if you should say, the scriptures do not call men saints because they are saints, but for some other causes known to you. For what is it to be a saint, but to be holy? And what to be holy, but to be of a sound judgement, pure affections, and unblamable conversation? And here Mr B. you speak both injuriously, and weakly; injuriously in insinuating against us, as if we held no men saints but such as are free from all human frailties. Weakly, in affirming the disciples of Christ had not sound knowledge, because they were ignorant of many things: that Paul had not pure affections, because he had some flesh yet dwelling in him: and that there cannot be the constant practice of holy duties, notwithstanding such frailties, as to which all men are subject. Whereas to all men of understanding, soundness of judgement is one thing, and infallibility an other: purity in affection one thing, and perfection in purity another: and so an holy conversation one thing, and ●● a life without all human frailty an other thing unatteynable in this life. The Apostle Paul † 1 Cor. 13 12. knew but in part, how small then is our pittance in knowledge? & yet our affections come short of our knowledge, and our practice of our affections, and desires: and yet we doubt not (by the riches of the grace of God) but we have all attained to soundness of knowledge, purity of affections, and holiness of conversation, how small and weak soever our measure be. Thus having considered of the exceptions against such marks of sayntship, as we set down, we will come to view the badges, by which the author will have saints descried, & acknowledged. Mr B. First (say you) men are called saints because of their outward calling to Christianity as 1 Cor. 1. 1. which is holy and to an holy end, 1 Thes. 4. 7. If your meaning be, that men because of their external calling A●s●●. on God's part, or that the gospel is preached unto them, are therefore saints, whether they believe the gospel, or believe it not, you mistake too much, for then all the persecuters and blasphemers to whom Paul preached, should be saints: yea it is an error to think that Paul styles any saints by calling in that place but such as were truly sanctified, so far as he could discern. For the same persons he terms saints by calling, he acknowledges in the same as sanctified in the Lord Iesu●, which implies both justification & sanctification. And where you add, that the end of the Church is holiness 1 Thes. 4. 2. as the thing you affirm is true, so the truth of it is sufficient to manifest the unholy constitution of your Church, & your as unholy defence of it. For if the end of the calling of the Church be sanctity and holiness to the glory of God, which is the supreme end, Math. 5. 16. then th● constitution and gathering of the Ch: of England, which at the first was (I mean after the Romish Apostasy) and still is of persons for the most part apparently unholy, and unsanctifyed, as it is most prejudicial to the glory of God, so doth it not only frustrate but most directly cross & oppose the end for which the Lord in great mercy, wisdom, and holiness, separateth his Church and people unto himself from the rest of the profane world. And as it is a certain sign that a Minister is not called into his place, if he be not in some measure qualified with such holy gifts, and graces as serve to the ends of the Ministry to which he is called, (which you both affirm, and confirm undeniably, pag. 132. 133. of this book) so is it also in just proportion a certain, and infallible argument, that the national Church of England, (and so of the Churchlings under it) is not called into covenant and communion with God being gathered of such persons (in the body of it) as are only utterly unanswerable but clean contrarily affected to the ends of the true Church which are holiness, and the glory of God. And where you Mr B. would fasten the name of saints upon people unworthy of it, by a similitude drawn from a Minister a●▪ the first rightly called to his office, but after showing himself unworthy of it, whom you will still have called a minister. I answer, that if he were known to be unworthy of it at the first or not known to be worthy, he was not rightly called either to the office, or by the name: and if he afterwards show himself unworthy, he is to be censured accordingly, and so with the office to forfeit the name: (though he hold both with you) & so it is with men in the general calling of Christianity: they that are unworthy of it are never called of God to take it upon them, and if they prove unworthy afterwards, they are to be deprived of Christian society. 2 Because of the profession of faith in Christ who maketh all true believers Mr B. holy and sancts. It is true you say that Christ makes all true believers holy and Saints, Answer. but I deny that every profession of faith in Christ argues a true believer. A false dissembler is he, and no true believer that in word pretends faith in Christ, and in deed denies him. 3. In respect of Baptism, by which externally the party baptized is to be Mr B. judged to have put on Christ. Gal. 3. 27. to have remission of his sins, Act. 2. 39 to be partaker of Christ's death, Rom. 6. 3. 4. Col. 2. 21. and to have assurance of salvation, 1 Pet. 3. 21. All persons baptised neither do in truth, nor are by us to be Answer. judged to have put on Christ, to have remission of sins, etc. but only such as to whom by virtue of the covenant of grace, baptism appertaineth. We must not conceive of baptism as of a charm, or think it effectual to all it is put upon, but must judge it available and of use, according to the * Gen. 17. 7 & 26. 4. Act. 2. 38. 39 & 3. 25 ● Cor. 7. 14. covenant of promise which God hath made to the faithful and their seed, and none otherwise. And baptism administered to any others is so far from investing them with any sayntship in that estate, as it makes guilty both the giver and receiver of sacrilege, and is the taking of God's name in vain. 4 In respect of the better part, though the fewer by many, for thus the Mr B. scripture speaks, Deut. 1. 23. 24. 1 Cor. 6. 11. with 5. 1. 2 Cor. 12. 21. The scriptures never ascribe holiness to a people for some fewes Answer. sake, if the rest be unholy, and profane. I read in the scriptures that unclean persons and things do † Lev. 14. 46. 47 & 15. 4. 11. 12 Hag. 2. 12. 13. 14. pollute, and vnhallow clean persons and things, & that a “ 1 Cor. 5. 6. 7. little leaven levens the whole lump: but that clean persons or things should hollow persons or things, which are unclean, or that a little sweet meal should make sweet a sour lump that read I not, but the contrary confirmed by the forenamed scriptures. And for the Ch: of the jews & of Corinth in which you instance, as they were holy (omitting other respects) for the holy covenant into which the Lord had assumed the body of them. Rom. 11. 16. so were the desperately wicked amongst them no true members of the body, but as putrefied and rotten parts to be cut off, and cast out from the rest. And where Paul writes, to the Church at Corinth, styles them saints, and advertises them, to excommunicate the incestuous person, what can be more unreasonably affirmed then that the incestuous person was one of these Saints? as though Paul had written to him to cast out himself, which must needs follow by Mr B. assertion and proofs of it. 5. In respect of the visible signs of God's favour, promise, and presence to Mr B. be with his, etc. as jerusalem was called the holy city. Mat. 4. 5. Answ. But we deny your national Church to be that * Rom. 21. 2. holy city, the new jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven. It is rather Babylon, though much purged and repaired. And Babylon cannot be jerusalem, nor was ever holy, not withstanding the spoils of jerusalem, and of the Temple also be found there: as were in the civil Babylon many Israelites captived, and with them the holy vessels, the holy instruments, yea the holy writings of the Prophets, & their persons also, 2 Chron. 10. 18. Psal. 137. 1. 2. D. 9 1, 2. 6. In respect of Gods good pleasure who looks not upon his Church, as the Mr B. particular members thereof are, but as he accepteth of them: therefore it is said, He saw none iniquity in jaakob, nor transgression in Israel. Num. 23. 21. and yet Israel was then an unbelieving and stiff-necked people. Here you say and unsay with one breath. You grant Israel Answ. to have been an holy people and without iniquity, as Balaam spoke, in the Lord's acceptance according to his good pleasure, and yet to have been at the same time an unbelieving and stiff-necked people, which affirmation as it contains in it an apparent contradiction, so doth it lay upon God an unsufferable imputation, as though he took pleasure in the wicked, or did accept of them. It cannot be denied but the people ever and anon rose up in rebellion against the Lord: and for instance in the Chapter next but one before going, through impatiency of their ordinary food, they murmured against God, and against Moses. Numb. 21. 4. 5. But did things so continue? No verily, for the Lord sent fiery serpents amongst them, and destroyed many of them, and by his correction brought the rest to repentance ● vers. 6. 7. And now as at other times, when they provoked him, smit them with grievous plagues & punishments, and so causing them to pass under the rod and picking out the chief rebels, and sifting out the sinners to destruction, and brought them again Ex. 32. 27. Numb. 11. 1. 2. Ps. 78 17. 18. 19 21. 31. etc. Ezech. 20. 37. 3●. Amos. 9 8. 9 10. into the covenant. And thus much of your respects of Sainct-ship whereof some are not true in themselves, others impertinent to your estate, and the most flatly condemning it. And though you Mr B. say it never so oft, and all the divines in the world with you (as here you speak) that the visible Church is a mixed company (as your very own book of Articles affirms the contrary, describing the Church to be a company of faithful people) yet do the divine scriptures speak otherwise, which I will clearly manifest, and therein also free the Parable, Math. 13. which you bring in for proofs, from that violence, which you and others offer them: forcing Christ clean against his will to plead for Antichrist. And with the scriptures I do affirm against you, that the Church of Christ is no such mingled meslyne, or monstrous compound, but a body simple, uniform, & one, proportionable in every member unto the head, informed by one spirit, and called in one hope, Ephe. 4. 4. And for wicked, and ungodly persons so far are they from being the true natural members whereof the body consisteth, as the whole of the parts, as they serve indeed for no other purpose then to infect, and corrupt the rest, and if redress be not had in time, to eat out the very heart of the whole. But before I come to the point in controversy, I will lay down two cautions for the preventing of error in the simple, & of cavilling in such as desire to contend. First it must be considered, that where the question is about I. the visible or external Church which is by men discernible, and not of that Church which is internal and invisible, which only the Lord knoweth, we speak here of visible and external holiness only, whereof men may judge, and not of that which is within and hid from man's eye. For we doubt not but the purest Ch: upon earth may consist of good and bad in God's eye, of such as are truly faithful, and sanctified, & of such as have only for a time put on the outside and vizard of sanctity, which the Lord will in due time pluck of, though in the mean while man's dim sight cannot pierce through it. 2. I desire it may be remembered that the question betwixt Mr B. II. and me is about the true and natural members whereof the Ch: is orderly gathered and planted, and not about the degenerate & decayed estate of the Church & members; for we know that natural * Is. 1. 2. 21. 22. jer. 2. 21. children may become rebellious, the faithful city an harlot, the silver dross, and the wine corrupt with water: the noble vine so planted whose plants were all natural, may degenerate into the plants of a strange vine. But as it were fond Philosophy, in the description of wives and children, and their true & natural properties, to make rebellion a property of a child, because many children prove rebels against their parents, or to make whoredom a property of a wife, because many wives prove unfaithful that way, so is it as profane divinity to make ungodly persons the true matter of the Church, & their profaneness a true property of the same, because many seeming saints at the first do so creep in, and do afterwards discover their own shame, & are oft times through want of zeal too long tolerated in the Church, to the dishonour of God & prejudice of the gospel. And so I come to manifest by an induction of particulars, that all the visible Churches gathered and planted by the Lord's line & levelly from the beginning of the world were in their collection & constitution, simple, uniform, and unmixed, consisting of good alone in the respect in hand. And first the Lord created a Church of Angels in heaven, which were all good & holy without mixture, till † 2 Pet. 2. 4 Jude, 6. some by sin fell from their first and original estate, & so leaving their own habitation were cast down to hell. After that God created a Church of mankind in Paradise, consisting of two persons both holy & good. And thus the Churches of creation were gathered of angels and men without mixture. Now if any man object that in these instances I fetch my beginnings too far of, my answer is that the Lord had, & hath the same ends and respects in the creating & restoring of his Ch: which are his own glory & their happiness. And if it were the will of the Lord that persons notoriously wicked should be admitted into the Ch: then should he ditectly cross himself & his own ends, & should receive into the visible covenant of grace such as were out of the visible estate of grace, & should plant such in his Church for the glory of his name, as served for none other use then to cause his name to be blasphemed▪ Hereupon I frame an Argument thus. That order for the gathering of Ch: which directly crosses the main ende● for which the Lord would have his Church gathered, is not of God. But the order, for which Mr B. pleads (which is, that apparently profane persons may with the godly be gathered into the visible Church) crosses the Lords ends of gathering Churches: and therefore is not of God. The former proposition is without controversy, the latter is thus manifested. The main ends for which the Lord gathereth and preserveth his Church upon earth are that he might have a * Levit. 20 26. Gen. 4. 26. Mat. 5. 1●. 1 Pet. 2. 12. Act. 2. 47. ● Pe. ●. 7. 9 peculiar people separated unto himself; from all other peoples to call upon his name in faith and to glorify him their heavenly father in their holy conversation, whom he also might glorify in the end of their faith, the salvation of their souls. But for wicked & ungodly persons in the Church as they serve no no way for these ends but the contrary causing “ Rom. 2. 24. God's name to be blasphemed, and † Ephe. 5. 6. his wrath to come upon their disobedience so to gather or admit them into the Church is utterly to frustrate God's ends, and to gather for Satan rather than for God. To proceed. In the restoring of mankind & planting the first Ch: in the covenant of grace established in “ Gen. 3. 24 25. the seed of the woman, there were only saints, without any such mixture as Mr B. makes. Now as all true churches from the beginning to the end of the world are one in nature and essential constitution, and the first the rule of the rest, so the first being gathered of good matter not bad, declares both Mr B. Church and opinion to be bad, and not good. And when in process of time * 1 joh. 3. 12. Cain which was of the evil one, bewrayed himself he as a degenerate branch was broken of, & driven out of the visible presence of God, Gen: 4. 14. it is further imputed by Moses for sin to † Gen. 6. 2. the sons of God that they married with the daughters of men. Now if it were (& “ 1 Cor. ●. 39 still be) unlawful for the godly to contract with the wicked in the civil covenant of marriage, how much more in the religious covenant of the Church & communion of Saints? To descend lower▪ God gave unto Abraham and his family the covenant of circumcision, Gen. 17. 10. which the Apostle, Rom. 4. 11. calls the seal of the righteousness of faith. Now to affirm that the Lord would seal up with the visible seal of the righteousness of faith any visibly unrighteous & faithless person were a bold challenge of the most High, for the profanation of his own ordinance. And the same covenant which God at the first made with Abraham, & continued with Isaak & jakob, he after renewed with the whole Church sundry times upon their repentance, in regard whereof the scriptures give very honourable testimony of all & every one of them: as that they were * Isa. 5▪ 1. 2. 3, 5. jer. 2, 21. the Lords pleasant plant, & vineyard hedged in, planted with the best plants, yea a noble vine, whose plants were all natural, yea natural branches, though they did oft times degenerate into the plant of a strange vine, and were therefore oft times forsaken of God, and in the end † Rom. 11. 16. 17. for their infidelity quite broken off. Lastly when john Baptist the forerunner of Christ, Christ himself, and his Apostles were to repair the desolations of Zion, and to plant the Gentiles “ Rom. 11. 17 into the root of the jews, and to make them * Eph. 3. 6. one inheritance, and one body with them, they did not by the coactive laws of men shuffle together good and bad as intending a new monster or chimera, but admitted of such, and none other, as † Mat. 3. 6. Luk. 7. 29. 30. confessed their sin and justified God: as * joh. 15. 18 19 17. 16. were not of the world, but chosen out of it, and hated of it: as “ Act. 2. 41 42. 46. did receive the word gladly, and communicate ●● of them in all things, as every one had need and that in gladness and singleness of heart: as received testimony by the H. Ghost himself that they were such as should be saved: as were “ Act. 20. 28. all of them purchased with the blood of God: as † Rom. 1. 8. for all whom there was cause to thank God: as whom the Apostle * Phil. 1. 3. 4. 6. 7. 8. did remember in his prayers with gladness, being persuaded that God could perfect his good work begun in the as became him to judge of them all, being all partakers of the grace of God with him in the confirmation of the Gospel, and after all whom he longed from the very heart root in Christ: as “ 1 Thes. 1. 2. 3. & 2. Epist. 1. 3. for all whom he gave thanks, always making mention of them in his prayers without ceasing, remembering their effectual faith, diligent love, and patient hope in the Lord jesus, which did grow in every one of them. Here is no such mingle mangle as M. B. would make of good and bad, but all good, and so avowed by the Holy Ghost, though without doubt many of these were masked, and hollow-harted hypocrites whose goodness was but † Hos. 6. 4. as the goodness of Ephraim and judah, like the morning cloud, and like the dew which falle● in the morning, & ●ades away. And now I will come to the two parables, Mat. 13. with which as with two mighty Engines Mr B. & others, will needs push over the partition wall of separation of the saints from the world, of righteousness from unrighteousness, of light from darkness, of Christ from Beliall, of the believers from the unbelievers. And for ingress into the exposition of these two parables of the field and draw net, I do desire it may be considered, that for the attaining of the right sense of the scriptures we must remember to interpret the more dark and obscure places by places more plain and easy; and so parables being dark speeches, and more hardly understood without express exposition, Mat. 13. 10. 11. Mark, 4. 11, 12, are not to expound plain rules, but to be expounded by them. Which proviso alone being observed might stand in stead of all answer to whatsoever out of these perverted parables could be objected. The point is, Mr B. following (I confess) the most beaten way, makes the field the visible Church, and the tars scandalous offenders, seen and discovered. Whereupon it must follow, that as the Lord forbids the servants to meddle with the tars, or with the plucking them up, but will have them, & the wheat to grow together in the field till the harvest, so both ministers and people are str●ytly inhibited and forbidden any way to admonish & censure wicked and scandalous persons in the Church, but must let them there remain without disturbance, till the last judgement. The venomous weeds, the noisome tars, (Idolaters, heretics, covetous persons, blasphemers and all) whose nature is to overspread and choke the wheat, must be suffered still to grow with it. And thus at once by this one profane gloss, all the tex●s of scriptures, and commandments of Christ, both for admonitions, and excommunications, are utterly voided and amnihilated. The brethren, nay the ministers themselves may not meddle with the tars, the wicked, to admonish or reprove them, they must be let alone; the sword of the Censures so graciously given to cut of rotten members, must no more now be drawn out, but must rust in the sheath of this exposition, notwithstanding all the plain scriptures to the contrary, Lev. 19 17. ● Thes. ●. 14. 1 Tim. 5. 30. & 2 Ep. 4. 2. Mat. 18. 15. 1 Cor. 5. 4. 5. All the power of our L. jesus Christ given to his Church for the rooting out of obstinate offenders, & casting down of every thing exalting itself against the knowledge of God is not only weakened, but even disannulled by this unreasonable exposition, that tars, that is, notorious offenders must still be suffered to grow in the field, the Church. And if the parable be thus meant, how can it be defended that any Church should cast out any offenders whomsoever? how dare the Prelates in Engl: with their substitutes take this forbidden weedhook into their hands, & use it against any tore amongst them? if any tars be to be plucked up, why not all? & if all be to be let alone, why meddle they with any? Indeed I must needs acknowledge & will not wrong them, that if they should execute their own canons, as they have framed them, they should not very oft practise against this exposition, nor gather the tars from among the wheat, but the wheat from amongst the tars. But to proceed. It may be some will answer, that Christ doth not here absolutely forbid his disciples the use of the Censures against the wicked, but rather acquaints than before hand what willbe the estate of the Ch: & how the wicked willbe suffered to continue in it uncensured. And if this were so it made nothing against me, nor for Mr B: it were the Church's sin so to suffer them, & I deny not but Churches usually are to negligent & remiss, through want of zeal & faithfulness to the Lord in this duty. But it is plain the Lord jesus lays a flat inhibition against the weeding out of these tars, & expressly commands to let them alone: & this commandment also he backs with two substantial reasons, the first lest they pluck up the wheat with the tars. v. 29: the 2. because the Lord hath appointed another time, the time of the harvest for the plucking them out, v. 30. Now some being ashamed of the grossness, & in deed of the iniquity of this exposition, would fain moderate & qualify the matter, by turning it off to these & these sins, & sinners. Some say that by the tars are meant the ministers only, & that they are not to be meddled with, though they transgress, lest the wheat be plucked up with them: as though the Lord would have the persons of men respected in judgement: yea verily there is more need to look to them in such cases, then to any private members whomsoever, as whose sins are more displeasing unto God, more scandalous to them without, & more pernicious to the Church then of any others. Some again will have this prohibition only to take place, when the multitude of the offenders is so great, as that they cannot be censured without danger of schism, and distraction, as though the multitude of offenders should privilege the offence, and as though the Lord jesus by his power given to his Church; 1 Cor. 5. 4. should fear to meddle with them for their multitude, and might, as David feared to meddle with the sons of Zeruiah, because they were too hard for him. The Apostle saith, (speaking of the incestuous man) that † 1 Cor. 5. 6. ▪ little leaven leaveneth the whole lump: how much more a great deal, which makes all more sour. And for answer to both, it is apparent the Lord here forbids the rooting out of any tars whither fewer or more in number, whither of high or low growth. Let men than cease to draw in by the hair of the head these parables for the tolerating of the wicked in the Church: (an intolerable wickedness) as most prejudicial to the * Isa. 52. 5. Rom. 2. 24. name of God, which is by this means blasphemed, to the parties salvation, who by this connivency is hardened in his sin, where by “ 1 Cor. 5. 5 due censuring, he should be humbled: to the health and safety of the body which is hereby corrupted and * Heb. 12. 15. defiled, and to the conversion of them without, who by the ‘. Math. 5. 16. 1 Pet. 2. 12. & 2 epist. 3. 1. holy converversation of the Church should be provoked to the love of the truth. These things being thus cleared, I come in the next place to the true and natural exposition, which (I doubt not) these scriptures will well bear. I do then find two interpretations, either of both (I am assured) more agreeable to the truth, than this forced gloss by me confuted, and neither of them containing in it any thing which the words of the Parable will not bear, or which is dissonant to the analogy of faith or any other scripture. First admit the feyld be the Church which Christ expounds the world, then say I, by tars in the field are meant not notorious offenders, but hypocrites, not so thoroughly discovered, which by the envy of Satan are foisted into the Church. It willbe said that tars are easily discerned from wheat: I answer not always so, though oaks may, as one of your own hath spoken upon this scripture: Mr Cartw. and it is certainly reported by such as have travailed jury & those parts, to which the Lord hath reference, that the weeds we call tars are there very hardly discerned from the true wheat. If it be further pressed that the tars are espied, I do further answer, that it is in parables both curiosity and danger to labour to make all parts meet in every particular: and since this particular of spying the tars is omitted by Christ in the exposition we may well be modest in it. But let it be that the tars are seen (as the words are) the question is who those servants are espying them, and so desiring to have them rooted out. These servants may well be some special persons in the Church endued with a singular spirit of watchfulness, and discerning, by which they do discover in some persons this tarish disposition under the ●ayl of holiness: so Paul spied out that bitter root of envy, and pride, by which some were Phil. 1▪ 15. 16. set a work to preach Christ: such persons notwithstanding must be born till their sins be ripe, and * Psa. 125. 5. the Lord lead them forth amongst the workers of iniquity. Or by the servants may be here meant the Angels, who by conversing much with the Ch: both can & without doubt do through the subtlety of their nature, & long experience spy out in the Church much cloaked wickedness, & impiety, which as the zealous ministers of God's justice they are ready to revenge. But since the Lord jesus, who best knew his own meaning, calls ‘* vers. 38. the field the world, and makes † v. 39 the harvest which is the end of the field, the end of the world, and not of the Church, why should we admit of any other interpretation? Neither is it like that Christ would in the expounding of one parable speak an other, as he should have done, if calling the feyld the world, he had meant the Church. As God then in the beginning made man good, & placed him in the field of the world there to grow, where by the envy of the serpent he was soon corrupted, so ever since hath the seed of the serpent (stirred up by their father the Devil) snarled at the heel of the woman's seed, and like noisome tars vexed and pestered the good and holy seed, which though the children of God both see, and feel to their pain, yet must they not therefore † Luk. 9 54. 56. forgetting what spirit they are of, presently call for fire from heaven, nor prevent the Lords hand, but wait his leisure, either for the converting of these tars into wheat, (which in many is daily seen; and then how great pity had it been they should so untimely have been plucked up:) or for their final perdition in the day of the Lord, when the Church shallbe no more offended by them. And that the Lord jesus no way speaks of the toleration of profane persons in the 〈…〉 Church doth appear by these reasons. First, because (as hath been observed) he doth not contradict I. himself by forbidding the use of the keys in one place, which in an other he hath turned upon impenitent offenders, Mat. 18. 15. 16. 17. 2. In the excommunication of sinners apparently obstinate, II. with due circumspection, and in the spirit of wisdom, meekness, & long suffering, with such other general Christian virtues, as with which all our special sacrifices ought to be seasoned, wha● danger can there be of any such disorder, as the plucking up of the wheat with the tars, which the husbandman feareth. vers. 29. III. Lastly the Lord jesus speaks of the utter ruinating & destruction of the tars, the gathering and plucking them up by the roots, vers. 28. 29. and to this end they are reserved by the husbandman, v. 30. (ever presupposed they so continued) but excommunication rightly administered is not for the ruin, and destruction of any, but for the salvation of the party thereby humbled. 1 Cor. 5. 5. But, to conclude, admit of Mr B. exposition, & that the field here is the visible Church, the good seed the good, & godly, the tars wicked and ungodly persons, I am contented that the difference in this place betwixt him and me be tried at the tribunal of this very scripture, even thus expounded, and I doubt not but it will pronounce a clear sentence on my side in the thing for which I contend: and that is, that the Church in the right gathering of it out of Antichristianism, or Paganism, out of Babylon, Egypt, Sodom spiritually, or civilly so called, or out of any other society or Synagogue, which is not the true visible body of Christ, must be & is constituted and compact of good only, & not of good & evil. The Lord's field is sown only with good seed. vers. 24. 27. 38. his * jer. 2. 21. vine noble, and all the seed true, his Church † Rom. 1. ●. 8. saints and beloved of God all and every one of them, though by the malice of Satan, and negligence of such as should keep this field, & vineyard, & house of God, adulterate seed, and abominable persons may be foisted in, yea and suffered also, which the scriptures affirm, and we deny not. But our exception in this case is, first that the Church of England was never truly gathered, the Church of England I say, that that is, the National Church, consisting of the Provincial Churches, and those of the Diocesan Churches, and the Diocesans of the Parochyall Churches, according to their parish precincts, with their governors & government correspondent. That there were true visible Churches in the land gathered out of Paganism at the first, I will not deny, but that ever the whole Land in the body of it was a Church is an affirmation of them which consider not what is either the matter whereof, or the manner how the Church of the new Testament is to ●e gathered. 2. Grant that the way of the kingdom of Christ, the Church were now so wide that a whole nation might walk a breast in it, and that England had been some times that Canaan, the holy land, wherein none uncircumcised person dwelled, yet in the apostasy of Antichrist it could not be so accounted, but was in the body of it divorced from Christ with Rome, whereof it was a member, except you (Mr B.) will affirm (as many do) that Rome remains still a true visible Church, and that antichristianism is true Christianism, Antichristians true Christians, the body which hath the Pope the head, the true body of Christ: & so except the Church of Engl. had been sown with good seed without tars since that general apostasy, it cannot be the L. field. The jews were forbidden by God under the law to * Lev. 19 19 sow their field with diverse seeds, and will he sow his own feyld with diverse, yea with contrary seeds, wheat, & tars? What husbandman is either so foolish, or carls, as to sow his field with tars & wheat together? And yet this fair field of Engl: of whose beauty all the Christian world is enamoured, is so sown, this pleasant orchard so planted, this flourishing Ch: so gathered. A few kernels of wheat scattered amongst the tars here & there, a few good plants amongst the wild branches, a small strinkling of good men amongst the great & reckless rout of wicked & graceless persons. And was this field sown, this orchard planted, this Church gathered, by the Lord's hand? And as was the root, so are the branches, as were the first fruits, so is the whole lump. To conclude this point, thus I reason. The Lord's field is sown with good seed only, though tars may in time be conveyed into it by the devils malice and man's negligence. But the Engl: national Ch: was not so sown, but with tars & wheat together. Therefore it is not the Lords field. And thus I hope the indifferent reader will easily see what succour Mr B. finds amongst those tars, under whose shadow he would so fain shroud all the Atheists Papists & other flagitious persons in the Church. Now for the Parable of the draw net, Mat. 13. I confess the bad fishes may be wicked persons in the Church, but undiscerned, as fishes under the water, between which & the good no difference is seen. If the fishers and they that drew the nets did know of the bad fishes in them, and had means of voiding them, they would never burden themselves, and the net with them, (except you will have as foolish fishermen here, as you had husbandmen before,) but till they do discern them to be as they are, they must take them, as they hope they are, though with you all be fish that come to the net, yea good fish too, till the Commissaries court judge otherwise. And lastly to your saying, well it were that all were saints: but that is to look for a heaven upon earth, I answer that the Church is heaven upon earth: and if you were not a stranger to the true Church and to such scriptures as speaks of it, you should find as in many other places, so especially in the Revelation the Church visible oft Rev. 4. 1. 2. & 6. 13. 14 & 8. 1. 10. 13. & 11. 6. 19 & 12 1. 3. 7. etc. dignified with the name of heaven and with no name oftener. Yea to seek no further than these two parables brought in by you to speak against heaven, that is against the true & natural constitution, & conservation of the visible Church, Christ himself & that with his own mouth gives the Church no worse name than “ Math. 13. 24. 47. heaven, and the kingdom of heaven, & the only ordinary beaten way which Christ hath left to heaven in heaven, is heaven on earth, which way soever you please to guide men. The sixth insimulation against us is that we hold. Mr B. That the power of Christ, that is authority to preach, to administer the sacraments, and to exercise the Censures of the Church, belongeth to the whole Church yea to every one of them, and not to the principal m●bers thereof. If Mr B. were but as able to confute us by just reason, as he is Answ. willing to bring us into hatred by unjust and odious accusations, we should then have as much cause to fear his skill, as now we have to complain of his malice. Only herein his skill is to be commended, that where he finds not our opinions such as he thinks willbe disliked by the simple multitude, he makes them such, and so deals against them. Here come in many things of great weight to be discussed: and although it were in itself the readiest way to reduce things to some heads, and so to prosecute them in order, yet since I have taken this task upon me to trace Mr B. in the particulars, therefore I purpose to follow him step by step, notwithstanding all his unorderly wanderings and excursions. And first Mr B. charging us with error for giving authority to preach, minister the sacraments, excercise the censures to the whole Church, and not to the principal members thereof, plainly insinuates that the authority to do all these things amongst them is in the principal members of the Church. But the truth is otherwise in the parish Church of Worksop, and in all other the parish Churches in the land. You have one only member that hath power, (and that under the ordinary) to any of these things, and that yourself the parish Priest, though perhaps the parish clerk may by special indulgence be licenced, to bury the dead, Church women, read service on light holy days, and do some such like drudgery in your absence. But for the exercising of the censures, that belongs not to the whole body, or to any member thereof principal, or less principal, but to the Bishops and his substitute, which are foreigners and strangers as in their office from the true Church, so even in their persons from yours. All your portion in the censures Mr B. is to do the executioners office, when the Official hath played the judge, which if you should be so bold as to refuse, besides the punishment of your contumacy, the Church door would do your office, for the bull of excommunication hanged up there by the sumner binds the offenders both in heaven & earth. And for the position itself, howsoever we do indeed maintain the most of the particulars against which Mr B. intends his refutation, yet as he sets it down, we do utterly disclaim it with all the errors in it. First for teaching in the Church we do not use it promiscuously, nor suffer it to be used but according to the order (as we are persuaded) which Christ and his Apostles have prescribed. And for the sacraments, the contrary to that which you affirm is to be seen of all men in our † Article 34. confession of faith, wherein it is held that no sacraments are to be administered until Pastors or Teachers be ordained in their office: neither have we practised otherwise? And this Mr B. knew, when he writ this book, as well as ourselves. Thirdly, touching the censures we do expressly confess that † Act. 24. the power, as to receive in, so to cut of any member is given to the whole body together of every christian congregation, and not to any one member a p●●t, or to more members sequestered from the whole, using the meetest member for the pronouncing the censures. And answerable to our profession is our practice: with what conscience then or credit Mr B: can father upon us those bastardly runagates, let God, & men judge. These things being thus, the untruths, which he saith we build upon this opinion are his and not ours, as the groundwork is his, so is the whole building raised from it. But touching interpretation of scripture by private brethren, and pollution by sin unreformed in the Church, & separation from it for the same, we shall speak in their places. Only I desire it may be observed that rather than Mr B. will forbear to accuse us that we hold it lawful for one person to excommunicate the whole Church, he will back this most odious calumniation with as fond and false an assertion: and that is, that separating from a Church and Mr B. excommunicating of it is all one in substance, though called less odiously. Answ. But the contrary is manifested by these two reasons. First excommunication is a sentence judicial presupposing ever a solemn and superior power over the party sentenced: but no such thing is inferred upon separation. 2. Excommunication is only of them which are * 1 Cor: 5. 12. 13. Math. 18. 15. 17. 18. within and of the Church, but separation may be from them without. And I would know of Mr B. whither a person, though never so mean, might not separate from the assemblies of Pagans, Turks, jews, Papists, & other haeretiques, and Idolaters? I hope he would not draw such a man within his separatists schism: & yet for the same person to excommunicate such an assembly were a sinful profanation of God's ordinance. And though we held (as we do nothing less) that one man might excommunicate the whole Church, yet were it not more (as you affirm) than your Church allows to any Bp. in Engl. no nor so much by a thousand parts: for one Bishop with you may excommunicate a thousand Churches: every Diocesan Bishop all the Churches in his Diocese, the two Provincial Bishops their two Provinces, so livelyly do the reverend fathers the Bishops resemble the holy father the Pope, which may judge all men, but be judged by none. The next collection made against us is that we hold that two Mr B. or three gathered together must be a Church which hath the whole power of Christ, and may presently make them officers & use the discipline of Christ. No such haste Mr B. of making officers presently: we make no dumb Answ. Ministers: neither dare we admit of any man either for a teaching or governing Elder, of whose ability in prayer, prophesying, & debating of Church matters we have not had good experience, before he be so much as nominated to the office of an Elder amongst us: remembering always the deep charge of the Apostle to † 1 T●● 5● 21. 22. lay hands suddenly on man, nor to be partakers of other men's sums. But this we hold and affirm that a company consisting though but of two or three separated from the world whither unchristian, or antichristian, and gathered into the name of Christ by a covenant made to walk in all the ways of God known unto them, is a Church, and so hath the whole power of Christ. And for the clearing of this truth I will propound, and so prove by the scriptures these two heads. 1. First that a company of faithful people thus covenanting together are a Church, though they be without any officers among them, conntrary to that your Popish opinion here insinuated, & else Mr B. where expressed, that a company is nowhere in all the new testament pag. 99 called a Church (Christian families excepted) but when they have their officers, and that otherwise they are called believers, Disciples, but not a Church but only by anticipation as heaven and earth are so called before they were Gen. ●. 1. & that the officers give them the denomination of a Church. 2. That this company being a Church hath interest in all the II. holy things of Christ within & amongst themselves immediately under him the head, without any foreign aid, & assistance. Of which holy things in particular we shall consider as they come in our way. These two grounds (by the grace of God) I will prove in order: and for the confirmation of the former take these reasons. The first is gathered from the authors own words, that a company I. of holy persons (without officers) are called believers, disciples, but not a Church which is all one, as if he said, that a Church is not called a Church, for the word Church, is no more than a company or † 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. assembly howsoever gathered together: and so a set company of visible believers must needs be a constituted visible Church: and to manifest the vanity of that distinction, that one place shall serve Act: 19 32. 40. Act. 11. 26. where in the same verse the same persons▪ are called the Church, Disciples, and Christians. Two or three or more people making Peter's confession, Math. 16. are the Church. But two or three or more may make this confession without officers. Therefore such a company is a Ch: The former proposition is evident by that promise Christ made * Mat. 16▪ ●●▪ 18. to build his Church upon the rock of Peter's confession. The second, namely that men without officers may profess their faith is without question, except we will hold that without officers no men can be saved, Rom. 10. 10. Thirdly, if the new Testament speak of ordaining Elders in the Church, then doth it necessarily conclude yea expressly affirm, that there were Churches before Elders were ordained in them. But the first is manifest Act. 14. 23. therefore the second. Neither can Mr B●shift of the place by saying such assemblies are called Churches by Anticipation, any more than the Papists can the scripture, 1 Cor 11. 26. against transubstantiation, by alleging that the Apostle speaks by Posticipation. For why may not the Papists as well answer that Paul calls Christ's body bread, not because it is bread, but because it was bread before the words of consecration, as Mr B: that Luke calls the assemblies without officers Churches, not because they were so, but were so to be after the Elders were ordained amongst them, neither is it true which you affirm for confirmation of your distinction, that heaven and earth were so called before they were, Gen. 1. 1. the meaning of Moses only is, that God created heaven and earth first, and when before they were not. If yet it be further answered by any, that the Church Act. 14. had Apostles over them, it must be remembered, that Luke in that place and action of ordination notes out three distinct orders of people, the Apostles ordaining Elders, the Elders ordained, and the Churches in which the Apostles ordained Elders. Of the same nature is the fourth Argument grounded upon 1 Cor. 12. 28. where God is said to have appointed or set in the Church Apostles, Prophets, Teachers, necessarily implying a Church before, wherein they were appointed: as a Sheriff appointed in a shire, a Mayor in a City, a Constable in a Parish, a Steward in a family do necessarily presuppose the Shire, City, parish, Family, wherein they are appointed. And indeed where should the Lord set his stewards but in his family? Is any society capable of the Lords officers but his corporation? Is not the Eldership an ordinance given to the Church? & so the Elders called the “ Act. 20. 28. Elders of the Church. In the Church is not an ordinance given to the Elders, nor ever called their Church in the whole New Testament. Fifthly they with whom the Lord makes his Covenant to be their God, and to have them his people, to dwell amongst them as in his temple, which have right to the promises of Christ, and to his presence, they are the Church of God, & of Christ. Gen. 17. 7. Lev. 26. 11. 12. Mat. 18. 17. 20. Apoc. 1. 11. 13. Heb. 8. 16. But a company of faithful people, though they have no officers amongst them, may be received into Covenant with God, may be his temple, and have him dwell amongst them, may have right to Christ and to his promises, & presence, except we will say they may not be gathered in Christ's name, may not be called, may not come out from among unbelievers nor separate themselves & touch none unclean thing. Mat. 18. 17. 20. Act. 2. 39 2 Cor. 6. 16. 17. except they have Ministers going before them. For they that may † 2 Cor. 6. 16 separate themselves from unbelievers may be the temple of God, that is the true visible church, which the temple typed out. Men are not to come out of Babylon, and there to stand still, & remember the Lord a far of, but must resort to the place where he hath put his name, for which they need not go either to jerusalem, or to Rome, or beyond the seas, they may find Siòn the Lords mountain prepared on the top of every hill. If they as lively stones couple themselves together by voluntary * 1 Pet. 2. 9 profession & covenant, they are a spiritual building, the Lords Temple. 6. If a company of faithful people without officers be not a Church, then if all the officers of a Church should die or fall away the Church should be nullified, and become no church: and to come nearer home (granting for a while the parish of Worksop to be a company of faithful people) if Mr Bernard should leave his Vicarage for a better, than the church of Worksop should be dischurched, and remain a Church no longer: and thus an assembly might be Churched and unchurched, and Churched again every week in the time of persecution or plague, by having and losing, and recovering again her officers: and thus the officers should not be the eyes or tongue of the body, for the body remains a true (though an imperfect) body without them, but the head of it: yea the Pope though he hold himself the head of the Church, yet acknowledgeth it a Church without him, and in the time of vacancy. We read, Rev. 2. 5. that the Lord threatens to remove the candlestick from the Ephesians except they amend. Now the candlestick is the Church, chap. 1. 20. and to remove the candlestick is to dischurch the assembly, or to wipe it out of the beadrowl of Churches. Here is sin the discharging an assembly, but that the death of the officers should do it, is nowhere found. We will acknowledge the Ministers to be the † Math 5. 4. Rev. ● 2●. lights, stars, & candles in the the candlestick the Church, & that the Ministers death or fall is the removing of the light in a great measure, but we may not grant them to be the Candlestick: that is the Church, wherein they are set, as 1 Cor. 12. 28. which may stand still though they fall. 7. If a company of Saints, where no officers are, be not a true VII. visible Church, then may they have no visible communion together either public, or private; the reason is, because the communion of saints is an effect, or property of the Church, and the Church a cause of it: the invisible Church of invisible communion, and the visible Church of visible communion. And as we can have no fellowship with Christ in his merits, and other works of mediation, till we be in our persons joined unto him by faith, and grafted in him, as the * joh. 15. 1. 2. 4. branches in the vine: so neither can we have communion one with another in any spiritual grace, or work, till we be united one to another in love, as the members of the body under the head. Communion in works whether natural, civil, or religious, doth necessarily presuppose union of persons. Yea if such a company be not a Church, I see not how their seed can have right to baptism, no nor how their own baptism can be accounted true in the right ends, & uses of it. For 1. baptism is within, and not without the Church: Ephe. 4. 4. 5. Secondly, it is the seal of the covenant (which is the form of the Church) to the faithful, and their seed, Act. 2. 38. 39 Thirdly, it is of the members into the body of Christ, 1 Cor. 12. 12. 13. Lastly where the essential causes of a Church are to be found, viz. matter and form, there is a Church. But this may be in such assemblies as have no officers, ergo. The former proposition is evident in itself, for the essential causes give being unto the th' 〈…〉 and it ha●h the being from them. The 2. I gather from Mr B. own grant, where treating of the causes and properties of the Church, he makes the † pag. 112. true matter such as profess Christ jesus their only saviour: and the * pag. 116. form to be the uniting of men to God, and one to another visibly. Now except he will say (which God forbid) that none may make profession of faith, and be united to Christ without officers, he cannot deny but there may be, (and so be called) a Church without them. For all united unto Christ the head, are members of the body, which is the Ch: and so the whole assembly jointly considered is an whole and entire body and Church. So that to deny an ordinary assembly or communion of Christians to be a Christian Church, is an unchristian opinion. And here I entreat the indifferent reader to consider whether these men's ways be equal, or no. When we deny their assemblies to be true visible Churches, though they consist for the most part of profane, and ungodly persons, under the government of a Provincial, or Diocesan Bishop, and the Ministry of a dumb or profane Priest, as the most do, (to which also the best is subject within one month) they complain of us, as most injurious detractors, and yet will not they acknowledge any assembly of faithful & holy people only (if unfurnished for a time of officers) to be a true Church, or capable of that denomination. But let not the hearts of God's servants be discouraged, he is no accepter of men's persons, he hath not tied his power and presence to any order, or office in the world, but accepted of them that fear him, and work righteousness, hating the assemblies of the wicked, and all their sacrifices. Upon this point I have insisted the longer, partly because it is the ground of the other truths to be handled in their places, and partly in detestation of the unsufferable pride of this Prelacy, and priesthood, which will have the very life of all Churches to hang on the breath of their nostrils, yea (I may safely say) on their lusts; if they die yea or forsake their charges in never so fleshly respects their Churches are dissolved, at least during the vacancy, and so the brethren dismembered from being of the visible body of Christ. But so far are the officers from being the formal cause of the Church (as is intended) as they are in truth no absolutely necessary appurtenance unto it. The power indeed to enjoy them is an essential property seated in the body which may branch out itself (as God gives fit means) into officers accordingly, which if they prove unfruitful, it may also accordingly lop, or break off. And so far is the Holy Ghost from giving countenance to this opinion, that the Officers make the Church, as when he speaks distinctly of the body, and officers, and considers them severally, he calls the body the Church, excluding the Elders, as appears in these, amongst many o●her scriptures. Act. 14. 23. & 15. 4. and 20. 17. 28. 1 Tim. 3. 5. 15. And the reason is, because the Church is essentially in the saints, as the matter, subject, form by the cover●ant, unto which the officers are but adjuncts, not making for the being, but for the well-being of the Church, and furtherance of her faith, by their service. The second point now comes to be manifested, which is that two or three faithful persons joined unto the Lord in the fellowship of the Gospel, have immediate interest to Christ in all his ordinances. Now lest any should stumble at these words, two or three joined or gathered together (as it seems Mr. B. would hereby take advantage to discountenance so small a number) it must be considered, that two or three thus gathered together have the same right with two or three hundred. Neither the smallness of the number, nor meanness of the persons can prejudice their right. When the Lord did chose one nation from all other nations, he chose the smallest amongst them, † Deut. 7. 7. Ps. 105. 12. fewest in number. And though now Christ have opened a way for all nations, yet is it a * Math. 7. 14. narrow way and which few find, especially in the first planting or replanting of Churches, of which Christ speaks most properly: in which regard also he likens the “ Mat. 13. 31. 32. the kingdom of heaven, or Church, to a grain of mustard-feed which is the least of all seeds, but yet hath virtue in it to bring forth a tree, in whose boughs the birds of heaven may build their nests. And against this exception of discouragement Christ himself hath provided a comfortable remedy, in speaking expressly of two or three Mat. ☉ 18. 19 20. to whom he hath given his power, and promised his presence. Now, for the point itself: the truth whereof is sufficiently manifested by that which hath been formerly laid down. If a company I. of faithful people (though without officers be the true Ch. and body of Christ, and Israel of God, then to that company appertaineth the covenants of promise, the oracles of God are committed untothem, and to them are given his word, statutes and judgements: & so they Rom. 3. 2. & 9 4. Ps. 147. 19 20. Act. 2. 39. may freely enjoy them amongst themselves in the order by Christ prescribed, without any foreign Ministers, for Mediators. II. They that have received Christ have received the power of Christ, and his whole power, for Christ and his power are not divided, nor one part of his power from another. But every company or communion of faithful people have received Christ. joh. 1, 12. Rom. 8. 32. Isa. 9 6. and with him power and right to enjoy him, (though all the world be against it) in all the means, by which he doth communicate himself unto hi● Church. III. When the Scriptures would give us to understand the near union betwixt Christ, and his Church, and the free and full title which he hath given her in himself, and all his most rich and precious benefits, they do teach the same by resemblances of most straight and immediate conjunction, as of that between the * joh. 15. 1. 5. vine and the branches, “ Eph. 1. 22 23. & 4. 15 16. & 5. 2. 3 the head and the body, † Cant. 4. 8. 9 10. Mat. 22. 2. 3. Eph. 5. 25. 29. 30. Rev 21. 2. the husband and the wise, and so as the branches do receive and draw the sap and juice immediately from the vine, and as the body receiveth sense and motion from the head immediately, and as the wife hath immediate right to, and interest in her husbands both person and goods, for her use, though she may and aught to use the service of her husbands and own servants (as they can be had) for convenient purposes, so hath every true visible Church of Christ direct, ●nd immediate interest in, and title to Christ himself, and the whole new Testament, & every ordinance of it, without any unnatural, monstrous, and adulterous interposition by any person whatsoever, betwixt the vine and the branches, the head and the body, the husband & the wife: which are Christ, and his Church, though but two or three gathered together in his name, as hath formerly been manifested. If all things be the Churches, even the ministers themselves, ye● though they be Paul, Cephas, and Apollo's, and the Church Christ's, & Christ Gods, then may the Church use and enjoy all things immediately under Christ, and needs not go to Rome to fetch her power, whether Mr B. would send her, but may have and enjoy the Ministers and ministrations (as her own) of all the holy things which are given her. But the first the Apostles expressly affirms 2 Cor. 3. 21. 22. 23. and so the conclusion necessarily followeth; which will also be more manifest in the particulars as they come to be handled in their places, as occasion shallbe ministered by Mr B. reasons laid down against popularty as he terms it, which in the next place come to be considered of. The first and second whereof are, that it is contrary to the order which God established before the law, under the law, and since Christ, or Mr B. in the Apostles days; during all which times, he affirms, that the power of governing was in the chief; in the first born before the law, in the Levites under the law, and in the Apostles in their days. And for confirmation of these things, he brings sundry scriptures from the old & new Testament, & for the exposition of them, & clearing of his aslertion, intermingles sundry other observations. For entrance into the answer of which his refutation, I desire Answ. it may be considered, that the visible Church being a polity Ecclesiastical, and the perfection of all polities, doth comprehend in it whatsoever is excellent in all other bodies political, as man being the perfection of all creatures, comprehends in his nature, what is excellent in them all: having being with the Elements, life with the plants, sense with the beasts, and with the angels reason. Now wise men having written of this subject, have approved as good, and lawful, three kinds of polities, Monarchycall, where supreme authority is in the hands of one, Aristocratical when it is in the hands of some few select persons, and democratical in the whole body, or multitude. And all these three forms have their places in the Church of Christ. In respect of him the head, it is a monarchy, in respect of the Eldership an Aristocracy, in respect of the body, a popular state. The Lord jesus is the King of his Church alone, † Isa. 9 6. Math. 28. 18. 1 Tim. 6. 15. upon whose shoulders the government is, and unto whom all power is given in heaven & earth, yet hath he not received this power for himself alone, but doth communicate the same with his Church as the husband with the wife. And as he is * Psa. 45. 6. 7. Heb. 1. 9 announted by God with the oil of gladness above his fellows, so doth he communicate this anointing with his body, 2 Cor. 1. 21. 1 joh. 2. 20. Gal. 2. 9 10. which being powered by the Father upon him the head runneth down to the skirts of the clothing, perfuming with the sweetness of the savour every member of the body and so makes every one of them severrally “ Rev. 1. 6 Kings and Priests and all jointly a † Ex. 19 9 1 Pet. 2. 6. Kingly priesthood, or communion of Kings, Priests, and Prophets. And in this holy fellowship by virtue of this plenteous anointment, every one is made a King, Priest, and Prophet, not only to himself but to every other, yea to the whole. A Prophet to teach, exhort, reprove, & comfort himself & the rest, a Priest to offer up spiritual sacrifices of prayer, praises, & thanksgiving for himself and the rest, a King to guide and govern in the ways of godliness himself, and the rest. But all these always in that order, & according to those special determinations, which the Lord jesus the King of Kings hath prescribed. And as there is not the meanest member of the body but hath received his drop or dram of this anointing, so is not the same to be despised either by any other or by the whole: to which it is of use daily in some of the things before set down, and may be in all, or at least in the most of them. So that not only * Cor. 1●. 21. the eye (a special member) cannot say to the hand (a special member) I have no need of thee: but not the head (the principal member of all) unto the feet, the meanest members I have no need of you. And yet as if a multitude of Kings should assemble together to advise & consult of their common affairs some one, or few must needs be appointed over the assembly both for order & special assistance of the whole, which should go before the rest in propounding, discussing, and determining of all matters, so in this royal assembly, the Church of Christ, though all be kings, yet some both most faithful and most able, are to be set over the rest, & that in office, (not kingly but ministerial) because the assembly is constant, wherein they are both deeply charged, & effectually encouraged to Minister according to the Testament of Christ, and that not † only for comeliness and order as Mr B: slandereth us to hold, pag. 90. but for the profit, edification, yea and salvation of the Church. 2 Cor. 1 24. Eph: 4. 11. 12. 13. 1 Tim. 4. 16 by the ministration of such holy things as to the Church appertain by the free, absolute, and immediate donation of Christ. This premised, I come to Mr B. reasons and refutation. And first I do freely acknowledge the thing, which he would charge us to deny, and seem to prove by many scriptures: and that is that the government of the Church before the law, under the law, & in the Apostles times, was (and so still is) not in the multitude but in the chief. In the first born before the law, in the Levites under the law, in the Apostles in their times, and so in the ordinary officers of the Church ever since, and that the Lord jesus hath given to his Church a Presbytery, or College of * Act. 14 3. and 20. 7. 20. Elders or Bishops for the feeding of the s●me, that is, for the ●eaching, and governing of the whole flock according to his will: and these the multitude jointly and severally is bound to “ 1 Th. 5. 2. Heb. 13 7. obey all and every one of them, submitting themselves unto their government in the Lord. And this it never came into our hearts to deny. Cease then Mr B. to suggest against us unto such as are ignorant of our faith, & walking, that we deny the Officers to be the governors of the Church or the people to be governed by them. But this I desire the reader here to take knowledge of, and ever hereafter to bear in mind, that it is one thing for the officers to govern the Church (which we grant) and another thing for them to be the Church, which Mr B. in expounding Math: 18. would needs make them; where he would have the Ezech: ●3. 2. 3. officers alone to admonish, and censure. As if because the † watchman is set up to blow the trumpet and to warn the people, when the sword cometh, that therefore he alone is the City, or Land, and bound alone to make resistance. The officers of the Church are to govern every action, of the Church, and exercise of the communion: are they therefore alone to do all things? They (if there be any of them in the Church) are to govern in every election and choice of ensuing Officers, are they therefore, alone to choose▪ excluding the Church? They are to govern in preaching, prophesying, and hearing the word, and receiving the sacraments, singing of Psalms, distributing unto the necessities of the saints, are they therefore alone to prophesy, to sing Psalms, to contribute to the poor & the rest, with as little reason can it be affirmed, that they alone are to have communion in the censures, to admonish, & judge, because they are to govern in the carrying & administering of those matters. These things thus cleared, it will be very convenient for the purpose in hand, and will give much furtherance to the truth, in a few words to consider of the nature of Ecclesiastical government, and governors, which whilst politic men through either ignorance, or contempt of the gospels simplicity, do neglect, they labour to transform the Church into a worldly kingdom, and to set over it a kind of kingly and lordly government: and such scriptures as give liberty and power unto kings, and other civil officers over their subjects, and people, for the making and altering of laws, and for the passing, and ordering of judgements, these they pervert and misapply to Church governors and government: than which nothing is more monstrous. Math. 20. 25. 26. 27. 28. 1 Pet. 5. 3. I. For first civil officers are & are called in the word of God † Num. 7. 2 De●. 1. 15. 16. Esa. 9 2 Mat. 20. 25. Rom. 13 1. 3. 1 Tim. 2. Tit. 3. 2. Ps. ●2. 1. 6. Princes, Heads, Captains, judges, Magistrates, Nobles, Lords, Kings, them in authority, principalities, powers, yea in their respect, Gods: and according to their names so are their offices: but on the contrary, Ecclesiastical officers are not capable of these, or the like titles which can neither be given without flattery unto them, nor received by them without arrogancy: neither is their office an office of Lordship, Sovereignty, or Authority, but of * 1 Tim. 3. 1. Act. 1. 17. Labour and Service, and so they the “ 1 Tim. 5. 17. 18. Mat 20. 26. 27. 2 Cor. 4. 5. Labourers and Servants of the Church, as of God. 2. Magistrates may publish & execute their own laws in their own names, Ezra. 1. 1. 2. etc. Est. 8. 8. Math. 20. 25. But Ministers are only interpreters of the laws of God, and must look for no further respect, at the hands of any to the things they speak, then as they manifest the same to be the commandments of the Lord. 1 Cor. 14. 37. 3. Civil administrations, and their forms of government may be, and oft times are altered, for the avoiding of inconveniences, according to the circumstances of time, place, and persons, Ex. 1●. 13. 14. 15. 16. 17. etc. But the Church is a kingdom which cannot be shaken, Heb. 12. 28. wherein may be no innovation in office, or form of administration from that which Christ hath left▪ for any inconveniency whatsoever. 4 Civil Magistrates have authority by their offices to judge offenders, upon whom they may also execute bodily vengeance, using their people as their servants, and ministers for the same purpose; but in the Ch: the officers are the ministers of the people, whose service the people is to use for the administering, and executing of their judgements, that is for the pronouncing of the judgements of the Church (& of God first) against the obstinate, which is the utmost execution the Church can perform. And what difference can be greater? In the common wealth the people fewer or more (yea sometimes whole armies) the ministers of the officers: in the Church, the officers the ministers of the people. 5. In civil government obedience must be performed for the authority and will of the commander, who is Lord over the bodies and goods of his subjects. Mat. 20. 25. 26. 1 Pet. 5. 3. yea though his commandments being with them bodily damage, yea be they never so unjust, & unholy yet must obedience be given in meek and patient sufferance, though not in active performance. ● Pet. 2. 13. 14. & 3. 14. 15. 16. but in Church matters not so. The officers may neither exact obedience, nor the people perform it further than the goodness, profit, and edification of and by the thing commanded doth enforce, 1 Cor. 14. 26. Gal. 1. ●. Col. 2. 16. 1●. And the reason is because civil Magistrates have authority annexed to their office, and order, and though both they, and their commandments be most unjust yet do they still reteyn their authority, which their subjects may not shake of: but ministers and Church governors have no such authority tied to their office, but merely to the word of God. And as the people's obedience stands not in making the Elders their Lords, Sovereigns &, judges, but in listening to their godly counsels, in following their wise directions, in receiving their holy instructions, exhortations, consolations, and admonitions, and in using their faithful service and ministry, so neither stands the Elders government in erecting any tribunal seat, or throne of judgement over the people, but in exhorting, instructing, comforting & improving them by the word of God, 1 Tim. 3. 16. & in affoarding the Lord and them their best service. But here it willbe demanded of me, if the Elders be not set over the Church for her guidance, and government; Yes certainly, as the physician is set over the body, for his skill, and faithfulness to minister unto it, to whom the patient (yea though his Lord, or Master) is to submit: the lawyer over his cause, to attend unto it; the steward over his family, even his wife and children, to make provision for them: yea the wachmen over the whole city for the safe keeping thereof. Such, and none other is the Elders, or Bishop's government. Now to conclude this point. All the scriptures which Mr B. brings (as the reader may see) serves to prove that the governors of the Church, must be in, and of the Church they govern: but the governors of the Church of Worxsop, are not of it, neither would Mr B. I dare say, be well pleased they should. But where it is further affirmed, that during all the Apostles days, the body of the congregation attempted nothing of themselves, but that always Church matters were begun, governed, and composed by the Apostles, as it made nothing against our matter, though it were even so, as is said, since w● hold that where there are officers in the Churches, & those faithful in all things, as th' Apostles were, there things are not to be attempted without them, so is it not true which is affirmed, neither do the scriptures alleged prove any such thing. The three first places, Act. 1. 15. 23. 24. 25. and 6. 3. 6. and 14. 19 20. 23. do only prove that the Apostles being general men, & officers of all Churches, did when they were present with the Churches govern and assist them faithfully in all things, which we also affirm to be the duty of all Elders in their particular charges, whom the people are accordingly to obey. More particularly. The two former places speak of the Church at jerusalem, where some of the Apostles were ever present: what marvel then if the congregation attempted nothing without them? But touching the last scripture which speaks of the Churches of and amongst the Gentiles, and of the ordination of Elders there, Act. 14. 23. the case is otherwise. Of these Churches some were converted to the Lord by the Apostles, and other by private brethren scattered thither, & there publishing the Gospel. Act. 8. 12. & 10. 36-44. 47. 48. & 11. 19 20. 21. 23. & 13. 2. 12. 48. & 14. 1. 2. & that some certain years before any ordination of Elders amongst them. And can it be conceived with any reason, that all this long space, during the Apostles absence, these Churches never assembled together for their edification and comfort, in prayer, prophesying▪ and other ordinances? were there no other converted all the while which desired to be admitted into their fellowship? or had they no use of excommunication for the preserving pure of their communion for sundry years? But to let pass these more general things and to come to the special business mentioned: Act. 14, 23. The same rules which were after left in writing to Timothy and Titus for the choice of Bishops, or Elders were then in use amongst the Churches: & amongst other qualifications, it was required of them that they should be † 1 Tim. 3, 1, 2, 4, 5. apt to teach, * Tit. 1, 5. ●. 9 able to convince, as also to manage the public affairs of the Churches, which were to depend on them, whither in cases of controversy, or otherwise, and such they both than were, and now are by good trial and experience to be known to be: and those also no young plants for such fruits. And as it did ▪ 1 Tim. 3. ●. most specially concern the brethren to know certainly, & by good experience that those officers were so qualified, whom they were to set over them, and unto whom they were to commit their souls to be fed unto life eternal, so could they only take sufficient trial of them, their gifts, and faithfulness for the public ministry by due experience. The Apostles came, but occasionally to visit the Churches, and to comfort them, making (in many very small or no continuance) and finding fit men for officers in the Churches where they came, and the same known, testified and commended to be such by the people's election, they ordained Bishops or Elders over them, and so departed. Act. 14. 21. 22. 23. And what reason can be given, why the Apostles did not at the first planting of the Churches, but so long a space after, ordain officers, (as also that Paul did not perform that business himself in Creta, but left Titus the Evangelist for that purpose, Tit. 1. 5.) save only that men of gifts might be trained up in prayer, prophesying, and carrying of such other Church affairs as fallen out, and so due trial made of their gifts, & good knowledge taken of their faithfulness in and by the Churches whereof they were, and over which they were to be set, being found fit for that service? Now the fourth scripture which is, 1 Cor. 5. doth directly oppose that for which it is brought. It was the Church's fault not to have purged out that sour leven, the incestuous person before they either heard from Paul, or he of that evil amongst them: and for their negligence herein the Apostle reproveth them, as all men see that are not willingly blind. And for Paul he in general as a penman of the Holy Ghost wrote scriptures for the direction of the Corinthians and all other Churches to the worlds end, and in special, as a chief Officer of that Church by † v. ●. determining for himself discharged his own duty: but did neither begin, govern, nor compose the action: being at Philippi▪ or rather at Ephesus for the present, from whence he writ the Epistle to the Church, unto which he commended the business in hand, both for the beginning, and ending of it. But what of all these, and many other the like scriptures to be alleged? because the Churches are in all things to be guided by their officers ministering faithfully, and according to the word of God, and their duty, that therefore if either there be no officers, or if they be absent, or fail in their duty, the Church may do nothing either for information, or reformation? The scriptures record, that after Stevens death * Act. ●. 1. 4. all the Church a● jerusalem was dispersed save the Apostles, and that they which were dispersed went to and fro, preaching the word, the effect of whose preaching amongst the Gentiles was † Act. 11 20. 21. the faith and conversion of a great number unto the Lord. Here were not only Church matters but even Churches begun, preaching to and fro, turning and joining of multitudes to the Lord, & that where neither Apostles no● other officers were present, for this is too gross to affirm that during all the Apostles days nothing was begun but by them. And what if the Lord should now raise up a company of faithful men and women in Barbary, or America, by the reading of the scriptures, or by the writings, conferences, or sufferings of some godly men, must they not separate themselves from the filthiness of the heathen to the Lord? nor turn from Idols to the true God? nor join themselves unto him in the fellowship of the gospel? nor have any communion together for their mutual edification, and comfort, till some vagrant Priest from Rome or England be sent unto them to begin their Church matters with his service book? And yet this would not serve the turn neither, for he would be unto them a barbarian, and they barbarians unto him, 1 Cor. 14. 11. Some years must be spent or each could understand others language. Nay if this were a true ground, that Church matters might not be begun without officers, it were impossible that such a people should ever either enjoy officers, or become a Church, yea I may safely add, that ever there should be in the world after the universal visible apostasy of Antichrist, any true either Church, or officers; and so we must hold with the Arians, that except there should come new Apostles to gather the Churches, and so a new Christ to call those Apostles, that there can be to the world's end neither true Churches nor true officers. The reason is, Heb. 5. 4. because * no man takes this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God a● Aaron: Now God calls no man ordinarily but by the Ch:, (for I suppose you will not deny but that the choice of officers is a Ch: matter & not a matter of the world.) And the Church must choose none but such as of whose knowledge, zeal, and utterance they have taken trial by the exercise of his gifts, as you truly affirm else where in “ Pag. 1●8. this book, and you will not say but this exercise of his gifts after this manner and for this end is a Church matter. Whence it followeth, that both Church matters, yea and Churches also may and in cases must be begun without officers. Yea even where officers are, if they fail in their duties, the people may enterprise matters needful, howsoever you will have the minister the only primum movens, and will tie all to his fingers. And to let pass the godly Kings of judah which were no Church officers (about whom the question is) which sundry times set the Priests a work, & other with them in Church matters, as 2. Chro. 17. 7. 8. 9 and 29. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. etc. and other instances in the old Testament, which in the handling of the particulars will fall into consideration, † Act. 11. 22. Peter himself was called by such as were no Apostles or other officers, to render a reason of his going into men uncircumcised, which he also did to God's glory, and the Church's satisfaction, v. 18. Now how soever they which so contended with him erred in the matter, and it is like, dealt too contumeliously with him in the manner, yet had it been simply unlawful for them to have propounded, and begun a matter of that kind, Peter would have reproved and broken off their disorderly course, and not have partaken with them in their sin by undertaking the answer of the matter, which in the general he doth approve, by his orderly, and satisfactory answer. Furthermore, where the Lord jesus, Math. 18. 19 directs a brother in case, & order, to tell the Church of his brother's offence, what can be more plain than that he enjoins a private brother to begin a Church matter? Yea though there be Elders in the Church, yea though the Elders alone, yea the chief of them only (as Mr Bernard would have it) be the Church, yet must the matter be brought to, and begun in the Church by him that is offended, and his witnesses. To press this yet a little further: if any puliquely scandalous, or notorious sin be committed in the Church by a brother, and the Elders neglect all means of redressing it, ye● put the case the Elders themselves be in the transgression, and by name, that they preach heresy, or both preach and practise notorious Idolatry, and that the body of the Church also be corrupted by them, and join hands with them in their mischief, what now must a private brother do in this case, whose heart the Lord establisheth in the truth, and whom he plucks as a brand out of the fire? must he go on, and join with that Idolatrous assembly in their wickedness? God forbid. And leave them he may not till he have dealt with them about this Church matter, and convinced them of this Church sin: for if Christ would not have a brother cast of his brother till he have dealt with him, nor the whole Church to cast of a private member, till he refuse to hear it, Math. 18. much less will he have one brother to forsake all the brethren, and officers also, or a private member to disclaim the whole Church till he have by the best means he can afford in himself, or procure otherwise, and after the best manner, convinced, admonished and exhorted both the Officers and people, and so found them obstinate and irreclamable. To proceed. The Apostle Paul writes to the Church at Rome, to * Rom. 16. 17. observe such as caused divisions, and scandals, contrary to the doctrine they had learned, and to avoid them: and to the Church at Corinth, to † 1 Cor. 5. 1. 4. 5. deliver to Satan, or excommunicate the incestuous person, & again that upon his repentance, they “ 2 Cor. 2. 7. ●. would forgive him, and confirm their love towards him, and again to the same Church, that they would have ready their * 1 Cor. 16. 1 2. 2 Cor. 8. 7 collection for the saints at Jerusalem and gather it on the Lord's day, desiring further that they might abound in that grace, as in faith, love, and the like: to the Colossians that they should † Col. 4, 17. say to Archippus look to thy ministry which thou hast received of the Lord, that thou fulfil it: so writes john to the Church at Pergamus that they Rev. 2. should not suffer the Bala●mites and Nicholaitans to teach and to deceive, as they did: † v. 20. and to the Church of Thyatira likewise not to suffer the 14. 15. woman jezabel calling herself a Prophetess to deceive God's servants. Now it seems by Mr BERNARD'S doctrine that if the officers withdraw in these things, and will not endeavour the reformation of them (or if they die or fall away) that the silly multitude must bear all evil, and forbear all good; they must not mark and avoid haereitcall and schismatical whether teachers or others, they must not put out the old leven, that they may become a new lump: nor confirm their love to any penitent person, or forgive him, though his repentance be never so full or public: nor make any collection in the Church for their brethren the saints, nor have any part in that grace: nor put their Minister in mind of his office that he fulfil it: nor meddle with false Prophets for their conviction or restrayn●, but may suffer them to deceive without gainsaying; these are all Church matters, Apostles only, and Apostolic men must meddle in them, both to begin and end them. And thus the Ch: without the officers help (though it cannot possibly be had) as a deaf, a dumb, a blind, a lame, yea a liveles & senseless body: it must both have the eyes put out, and the ears stopped, and neither see nor hear, it must be tongue-tied from speaking, & fast bound hand and foot from doing any thing for the general, and joint good, yea it must not be saved without the officers, for other ordinary way of salvation know I none by the revealed will of God in his word, but in the use of the ordinances, which Christ hath given unto his Church. ¶ It is the steward's duty to make provision for the family, but what if he neglects this duty in the masters absence? must the whole family starve, yea and the wife also? or is not some other of the family best able, to be employed for the present necessity? It is the Pilottes office to guide the ship, but what if he ignorantly, or negligently, or desperately will run the same upon the rocks, or sands, must the rest of the mariners forbear to intermeddle, and so perish? It is the captains office to lead the army, but what if he or they perfidiously will betray the same into the hands of the enemy, may not the body of the army make the best head they can to defend themselves, and to offend their enemies, using the best means they have for their present direction? Yea even in the most peaceable & best governed commonwealths, a private man may in a case of necessity become a Magistrate for a main work, and that which ordinarily is the Magistrates peculiar. The Lord hath given † Rom. 13. 3. 4. the sword into his hand for the good of him that doth well, & to take vengeance on him that doth evil, and to him it appear teynes to defend the innocent. But if this innocent person be assaulted by a thief, murderer or other enemy, when the Magistrate is absent, that should defend him, God puts the sword into his hand, and he may as lawfully use it now, as wear it before, & rather kill then be killed. So may the Church as the wife of Christ, if the steward the minister neglect the provision, use the help, and service of an other the fittest in the family to provide food; the multitude, as the mariners, if the minister the Pilot be desperate, set an other the most skilful at the stern: the body of the army the Church, if the officers as the Captains be perfidious, use the help and guidance of some other the most expert: so may, as a private citizen a magistrate, a private member become a minister, for an action of necessity to be performed, by the consent of the rest. These first things even nature, and the light of it teacheth the natural man, the latter, grace, & the spirit of grace the spiritual man. Of these things the more largely I have spoken in the general, I may be the breifer in the particulars. Only for conclusion I must demand of Mr B. this question: if Church matters be to be performed only by ministers, why his Sexton being no minister reads divine service in his absence, and that by authority from the Ordinary. If this be not a Church matter, and that material, there is small Church matter in the most Churches in the land. Now the last thing I have to observe touching this first reason is, that so far as the author speaks the truth in it, so far he speaks most plainly against himself. In that he grants (as he doth pag. 90. 91.) the people under the law aright from the Lord, to approve of the appointment of the Levites, and that the body of the congregation were made acquainted with that which concerned them, yea and had liberty to choose their officers, and to present them to the Apostles, therein he overthrows both his own, and all other the ministries in England, as by the laws both civil and ecclesiastical they are constituted. For the law (with you Mr B.) allows not only Ministers ordained at large, without any certain congregations, but entitles them also to their special cures, without so much as the people's knowledge: many parishes never seeing the faces of their ministers till they come to ring their bells in sign of victory: much less doth the law provide, they should be approved, lest of all that they should be chosen, and presented by them. As the truth you speak in this place makes against you, so had you spoken more fully, you had brought more clear testimony against yourself, you do therefore take up yourself in time, and mingle some untruths among▪ like darkness with light, lest the light should shine too clearly in the eyes of the reader. Where you then affirm that the people did only approve of the Levites at the Lords appointment when they took their charge, Numb. 3. 6▪ 12. Lev. 8. 2. 36. & that the body of the congregation was only made acquainted with the choice of Mathyas, Act. 1. 15. you speak unfaithfully: but where you add, that only the liberty was granted them by the Apostles then to choose Officers etc. it is both false and fond. False as the former, for the Levites were not only approved by the people, but given by them: they were the the people's gift, and therefore theirs (for they gave nothing but their own) and by them given to minister unto the Lord in stead of the first borne, Exod. 13. 2. 12. 13. and 22. 29. Num. 3. 12. The Levites are expressly called the people's † shake offering, and so were not only approved, but given by Num. 8. 9 10. 11. them as their offering, even the offering of the whole congregation, and that by solemn ordination & imposition of hands by the people Men may approve the things done by others, but the people were principal doers themselves: the offering was theirs, and by them as their gift presented, and so by Aaron offered unto the Lord in their name. And as shameless an untruth is it which you avouch touching the calling of Mathyas, Act. 1. that the body of the congregation was only made acquainted with that which concerned them all. For howsoever the ministration were extraordinary, being an Apostleship, to which he was called, and therefore the Lord reserved to himself the prerogative royal of immediate designation of the very person, Gal. 1. 1. yet would he have the liberty of the people so inviolably preserved, as that by direction, they were to present two, and after to acknowledge by common consent that particular person which by the Lord was immediately singled out, and designed to that work. vers. 23. 26. Lastly the liberty granted to the people for the choosing both of Deacons, and Elders, Act. 6. & 14. was not by any courtesy of the Apostles, as by the Pope's indulgence for that time, as Mr B. would cunningly bear the simple reader in hand, but it was an ordinance eternal, and perpetual, never reversed but by Antichrist, even a part of that counsel of God wherewith the Apostles acquainted the Churches, and one of these commandments which they were to teach all Churches to observe, which they also did. And so I come to the third reason against this imputed popularity, Mr B. taken from the commission of Christ to his Apostles, and their successourt. This is something generally set down, but the thing (I perceive Answ. by his proofs) which Mr B: intends is, that the use of the keys & power of binding and losing was committed by Christ to his Apostles, and to those which succeeded them. And first here, I do grant with Mr Bernard, that look to whom the power of binding and losing was primarily, and immediately committed, in their successors it recideth for ever: so that the only point in question is into whose hands the Lord jesus hath properly & immediately given the keys of the kingdom of heaven, the power of losing, and binding sins. For the better understanding then of this point it must be considered, that the kingdom of heaven is compared to a great house into which some are admitted, and others denied entrance: the door into this house is Christ: the key that opens and shuts this door, is the gospel: the opening of it (which is the losing of sins,) is the publishing, opening, manifesting and making known of the gracious promises of the forgiveness of sins and life eternal to such as believe, and repent. The shutting of this door (which is also the binding of sins) is the declaration and denunciation of the wrath of God, against sin, and of coudemnation upon persons impenitent, and unbelievers: and both these according to the pleasure of the master of the house, though the latter of them be not of the nature of the gospel, which is in itself * 2 Cor. 3. 6 the ministry of life, and of the spirit which giveth life, but accidental unto it, by men's own fault, which through their unbelieving, & impenitent hearts turn this key as it were, the wrong way upon themselves. Now by the evidence of the former general truth approved (I doubt not) to the conscience of every indifferent man (which is, that a company of faithful people united together in the fellowship of the gospel, though without officers, is a Church, This specialty in hand willbe cleared. And wheresoever the promise of forgiveness of sins, and life eternal is to be found, there hangeth the golden key of heaven gates, there sins are loosed in heaven: for what else is it to loose sins, but to publish, proclaim, or declare in the word of God & righteousness of Christ, the forgiveness of sins to them that repent. But of these things hereafter. I will in the first place consider of Mr Bernard's proofs, and of his collections from them. The places alleged are, Math. 2●. 19 & 16. 19 joh. 20. 21. 22. 23. Mark. 13. 34. which scriptures are not all of one nature, nor serving to the same end. Yet this in general I do answer to all of them, that we deny not but that the public Ministers are by commission from Christ to publish the gospel, administer the sacraments, bind and loose sins, watch and ward the house of God, and the like, which for us to deny were wickedness, and for you to prove is lost labour. But the points in controversy betwixt us are first, whether these things and all of them, and with them all other Church affairs not here mentioned, be so appropriated to the Officers, as that none other may meddle with them: and 2. whether this power be committed to them immediately from, and by Christ, or mediately from Christ by the Church: which consideration whilst you neglect, you err yourself, deceive such as follow you, and injury them you oppose. But to the particulars. The first & third scriptures, Math. 28. 19 & joh. 20. 21. 22▪ 23. are meant only of the Apostles; and in them they receive the commission Apostolic, which (to speak properly) is incommunicable to any other Officer in the Church. For as none are to succeed them in the Office of Apostles, so neither is the Commission (peculiar to the Apostles) conveyed, or intended to any others, which also further appears thus. Their charge was to * Math. 2● 19 teach and baptize all nations, & to “ Mark. 16. 15. go into all the world, and to preach the gospel to every creature● but ordinary Ministers have no such commission, but are tied to their particular flocks, Act. 14. 2●. & 20. 28. 2. Their Commission was extraordinary, and miraculous, whether we respect the inward qualifications of the parties by the immediate inspiration of the holy Ghost, wherewith they were at the first springled as it were, john. 20. 22. and afterward replenished, Act. 2. 4. or whether we respect the miraculous confirmation of the doctrine both by them tha● taught it, and by them that believed it. Mark. 16. 17. 18. 20. 3. The very outward o●der and manner of conveying it was extraordinary, and by Christ's immediate voice, and as it were with his own hands: where ordinary Ministers have their commissions from Christ indeed, but by men, Gal. 1. 1. And the consideration of this very difference doth minister sufficient matter of answer, that though Christ did transfer unto the Apostles their office, and power to exercise it immediately, yet for ordinary ministers, the case is clean otherwise. Lastly the disciples of Christ did not then first receive power to teach when they were possessed of their Apostleship, but long before they were admitted into office, as did others also besides them without office as well as they, Math. 10. 5. 6. 7. Luk. 10. 1. 2. 3. 9 10. which scriptures alone, as they are sufficient to justify against Mr B. that the keys of the kingdom were given into the hands of men without office, yea before any office or officer was in the Church, so do they manifest the notable falsehood of that his peremptory affirmation, pag. 93. that it is as plain as the shining of the sun of the firmament of heaven, to such as are not blind, or wilfully shut not their eyes from seeing, that Christ never said to the body of the congregation, that is, to any out of office, (for that is the point) go preach. The Apostles by Mr B. own grant in this place, & by these scriptures, & at this time, and not before, had their commission of Apostleship granted them from Christ, (and I hope he will not say they entered their office without a commission) ●nd yet both power and charge was given them long before to preach the kingdom of God, as the forequoted scriptures manifest. The next place is Mat. 16. 19 where express mention is made of the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and of the power of binding, and losing given to Peter: by which scripture rightly interpreted I desire the difference betwixt Mr Bernard and me may be determined. That by the keys is meant the gospel of Christ, opening a way by him, and his merits, as the door into the kingdom, I have formerly declared, and we must take heed of that deep delusion of Antichrist, in imagining that this power of binding or losing sins, of opening, or shutting heaven gates, is tied to any office, or order in the Church; it depends only upon † Mark. 2. 7. Rev. 3. 7. Christ, who alone properly forgiveth sins, & hath the key of David which opens, and no man shuts, and shuts, and no man opens: and this key externally is the gospel, which with himself he gives to his Church, Isa. 9 6. Rom. 3. 2. & 9 4. and not to the officers only for them, as Mr Bern. in his ‘* pag. 178. last book come to mine hand in the publishing of this mine answer, doth insinuate, because the material book was given into the hands of the Priests, and Elders to be kept. Deut. 31. 9 whence I do by the way gather thus much, that since the keys of the kingdom of heaven is the gospel, and that the gospel is given to the whole Church, and to every member of it, whether there be Ministers or no, it therefore followeth, that the keys are given to all and every member alike, as the gospel is, though not to be used alike by all, and every one, which were gross confusion, but according to the order prescribed by Christ. Now for the place in hand, (which is Math. 16. 18. 19) it is granted by all sides that Christ gave unto Peter the keys of the kingdom, that is, the power to remit and retain sins declaratively (as they speak) as also that in what respect this power was given to PETER, in the same respect it was, and is given to such as succeed Peter: but the question is, in what respect or consideration this power spoken of was delegated unto him. The Papist affirms it was given to Peter as the Prince of the APOSTLES, and so to the BISHOPS of ROME as PETER'S successors, and thus they establish the POPE'S primacy: the PRELATES say nay, but unto PETER an APOSTLE that is, a chief Officer of the CHURCH, and so to us as chief Officers succeeding him, which is also M B: judgement, pag. 94. Others affirm it to belong to Peter here as a Minister of the word, and sacraments, and the like, and so consequently to belong to all other Ministers of the gospel equally, which succeed Peter in those and the like administrations. But we for our parts do believe & profess that this promise is not made to Peter in any of these forenamed respects, nor to any office, order, estate, dignity, or degree in the Church, or world, but to the confession of faith, which Peter made by way of answer to Christ's question, who demanding of the disciples, v. 15. whom (amongst the variety of opinions that went of him, ver. 14.) they thought him to be, was answered by Peter in the name of the rest, Thou art Christ the son of the l●ving God, ver. 16. To this Christ replies, ver. 17. blessed ar● thou Simon, the son of jonas, etc. and ver. 18. thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not overcome it. and v. 19 I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven, & whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth shallbe bound in heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt lose on earth, shallbe loosed in heaven. So that the building of the Church is upon the rock of Peter's confession, that is, Christ, whom he confessed: this faith is the foundation of the Church: against this faith the gates of hell shall not prevail: this faith hath the keys of the kingdom of heaven: what this faith shall lose, or bind on earth, is bound, & loosed in heaven. And thus the Protestant divines (when they deal against the Pope's supremacy) do generally expound this scripture, though Mr B. directly make the Pope and his shavelings Peter's successors in this place, as hereafter will appear. Now upon the former ground it followeth, that whatsoever person hath received the same precious faith with Peter (as all the faithful have, ● Pet. 1. 1.) that person hath a part in this gift of Christ: whosoever doth confess publish, manifest, or make known jesus to be that Christ the son of the living God, and Saviour of the world, that person opens heaven gate, looseth sin, & partakes with Peter in the use of the keys. And hereupon also it followeth necessarily, that one faithful man, yea or woman either, may as truly, and effectually lose, and bind, both in heaven, and earth, as all the Ministers in the world. But here I know the Lordly clergy, like the bulls of Bashan, will roar loud upon me, as speaking things intolerably derogatory to the dignity of priesthood, and it may be some others also, either through ignorance, or superstition, will take offence at this speech, as confounding all things: but there is no such cause of exception. For howsoever the keys be one and the same in nature, and efficacy, in what faithful man's or men's hands soever, as not depending either upon the number, or excellency of any persons, but upon Christ alone, yet is it ever to be remembered, that the order, and manner of using them is very different. These keys in doctrine may be turned as well upon them which are without the Church, as upon them which are within, and their sins either loosed, or bound. Math. 28. 19 but in discipline (as we speak) not so, but only upon them which are within. 1 Cor. 5. 12. 13. Again the Apostles by their office had these keys to use in all Churches, yea in all nations upon earth: ordinary Elders for their particular flocks. Act. 14. 23. & 20. 28. Lastly there is an use of these keys publicly to be had, and an use privately: an use of them by one person severally, and an use of them by the whole Church jointly, and together: an use of them ministerial, or in office, and an use of them out of office: but the power of the gospel (which is the keys) is still one, and the same, notwithstanding the diverse manner of using it. And this distinction well observed will stop the hole, by which Mr Bernard in his reply, sundry times escapes out (where otherwise he should be avoidable taken in Mr Smiths' arguments) by taking vantage at, and perverting of a phrase used by Mr Sm: which is the ministerial power of Christ. This ministerial power Mr S. makes that external communicated, & delegated power of Christ with and to the Church, serving only for manifestation and declaration of the remission, or retention of sins, opposing ministerial power in the creature, to that power essential, & incommunicable which is inhaerentin Christ and God the creator: but Mr B. on the other side, either ignorantly, or deceitfully, misinterprets the term Ministerial, as meant only of the power in office, opposed to that which is out of office, and so creeps out at this cranny. But with what reason can it be either conceived, or suggested that Mr Smyth should affirm, that the body of the Church, or a private brother out of office, should have this power spoken of in office? Thus much to prove that all the precious promises, Math. 16. were made to Peter in respect of his confession of faith, and so consequently to all others, which succeed him in the same confession, and amongst the rest, the use of the keys, though not in the same order, or office with Peter, which was peculiar unto him with some few others. It followeth. First if the keys of the kingdom of heaven be appropriated unto the officers, then can there be no forgiveness of sins, nor salvation without officers: for there is no entrance into heaven but by the door, there is no climbing over any other way, without the key the door cannot be opened: so then belike if either there be no officers in the Church (as it may easily come to pass in some extreme plague, or persecution, (howsoever in England a man may have a Priest for the whistling) and must needs be in the Churches of Christ in our days either in their first planting, or first calling out of Babylon: for antichrist's masse-preisthood is not essentially Christ's true Ministry) or if the officers † Mat. 23. 13. take away the key of knowledge (as the Scribes & Pharisees did) & will neither enter in themselves, nor suffer them that would, then must the miserable multitude be content to be shut out, and perish eternally, for aught is known to the contrary. They have no remedy in this case, no redress may be had of this evil, no means used to avoid it. Though the Pope carry with him thousands to hell, no man may say unto him Sir, why do you s●? To admonish the Officers of their sin, were against common sense that the father should be subject to his children, the work domineer over the workman, the seeds-man be ordered by the corn, and to excommunicate them and call new, were intolerable usurpation of the keys, this power is given to the chief officers only, pag. 94. 95. and to separate from them is as intolerable. pag. 88 Miserable were the Lord's people if these things were so: but the truth is they are miserable guides that so teach. 2 They which may forgive sins and sinners, save souls, gain, and turn men unto the Lord, to them are the keys of the kingdom given, by which they open the door unto such, as they thus forgive, gain, and save: but all these things such as ar● no ministers, may do, as these scriptures (which I entreat the godly reader to consider) do most clearly manifest, Math. 18. 15. 2 Cor. 2. 5. 7. 8. 9 10. Act. 8. 1. 4. with 11. 19 20. 21. jam. 5. 19 20. 1 Pet. 3. 1. Jude, 22. 23. Erroneous therefore, & derogatory is it to the nature of the gospel, & free donation of Christ, thus to impropriate and ingro 〈…〉 the keys, whichly common to all Christians in their place and order. 3. Lastly I do affirm with Mr Smyth that the twelve were as yet but disciples, and not actually Apostles. Designed in deed they were to the office of Apostles, but not possessed of it. A man may call such a woman his wife, before they be actually married, and such a child his heir, though he be not for the present possessed of a foot of his inheritance, nor like to be before the testators death: and that this was the condition of the twelve, I prove by these reasons. If the twelve were called to the office of Apostles, Mat. 16. then Christ called men to an office, for which they were altogether unfit, & unfurnished, which to imagine were impious against Christ. Now that they were utterly unapt to this office, appears in these particulars. First they wanted that Christian fortitude, and courage, which was most needful for that office. Secondly, they were ignorant of the nature of Christ's kingdom▪ not forecasting his death, nor believing his resurrection, unfurnished also with the gift of tongues, and so utterly unable to teach the gentiles, for whose sake they received their commission in a special manner, Mat. 16. 21. 22. & 20. 20. 21. & 26. 51. Mark. 16. 11. 14. Luke ●4. 21. Act. 2. 1. 2. 3. 4. Mat. ●8. 19 Ephe. 3. 5. 6. 2. When Christ ascended on high he gave gifts to men, viz. Apostles, Evangelists, etc. Ephe. 4. 8. 11. And then and not before then was the Church capable of the office of Apostles, who were to preach the gospel to all nations, when the partition wall was broken down betwixt the jews & Gentiles, that the gentiles also which were formerly strangers & foreigners, might now be made citizens with the saints, and of the househood of God, Ephe. 2. 12. 19▪ And a● this particular I have now in hand, seemeth to receive confirmation from the last scripture Mr Bernard bringeth for the Apostles commission, which is Mark. 13. 34. where Christ at his departing into a strange country sets his house in order, giveth his servants authority and appoints them their work▪ so doth the exposition & application of the same scripture to the general purpose (if we compare with this place that which he affirmeth in another) argue him that brings it of a mind very unsound and unstable. Here, (as all men see) Mr Bern. allegeth it to prove that the chief officers only are by commission from Christ to meddle in the public affairs of the Church, and in particular to redress things amiss, and to censure offenders: but in his second book being pressed Reply unto Mr Smith pag. 195. by an argument by Mr Smith taken from this scripture, he fare and ●●at●y denies, that the Lord in this place intends to set out any government of the Church at all: and thus compared with himself, he is like nothing l●sse than himself. Now since Mr B. disclayms this scripture as not intended at all of the government of the Church, & that in his 2. & better thoughts, I have no reason to spend much time in answering him. Only I can not pass by one frivolous exception, in his reply, against Mr Sm. and another absurd collection of his own. Where Mr Smyth affirms, that every servant or disciple in the Church hath authority (and that truly) (if he have the word of God he hath authority, for the word caries authority with it, wheresoever it goes) M B. excepts first that by servants are meant Officers: which as it is true sometimes, so is it otherwise for the most part, especially in the parables of this kind, Mat. 25. 14. Luk. 19 12. 13. to which this parable seemeth well to consort: wherein since all have received some good thing, or substance, from Christ to be dispensed for the good of the rest, all should dilig●tly & faithfully employ their labour in the same, ever expecting the return of the master, & all & every one of them watching, and the Porter specially, according to that special charge, laid upon him to watch, ver. 34. 35. 37. but the exception I mean is that by servants cannot be meant the Church, because the house is the Church, and the authority not given to the house, but to the servants in the house, who are to look over others. Mark here, in the case of government, the house must needs be the Church, the Church and house are both one, & Christ speaking of the house, or Church means the people, excluding the officers: and yet Math. 18. in the case of goverm●t, the officers are in Christ's speech the Church, or house (for they are all one) excluding the people. But to the point, as the officers are both the Lords † Rom. 1. ● Heb. 3. ●. servants in his house & parts of the * Heb. 3. 6 1 Pet 2. 5. Gal. 6. 10. Ephe. 2. 10. house and household also, so are the people not only the house or of the house and household as in the forenamed scriptures, but “ Mat. 25. 14. Luk. 19 12. 13. Rom. 6. 16. 22. Rev. 1. 1. & 7. 3. the Lords servants in his house also. The idle and senseless exposition Mr B. gives is of the Porters watching. Where the master at his departure appoints every serv●●t his work, and commands all to watch, and the porter specially, lest he 〈◊〉 suddenly and find them sleeping, Mr B. to join all together for the holding out of Mr Smiths' Argument, makes the Porter God's spirit, as if the Holy Ghost were one of the servants, and had a commandment from Christ to watch, lest it should be found asleep at his coming. And by this, I hope, it appeareth in the general contrary to Mr B. affirmation, that the power of Christ (or keys of the kingdom) is not delegated or committed primarily much less solaryly, or alone, to the officers of the Church how soever they as the governors are to direct, and as the minister to execute in the use of this power, or of these keys. Of the particulars hereafter. That which comes next into consideration is, that the Apostles committed that their power received from Christ not to Mr B. the body of the people, but to the chief ministers of the gospel, and chief officers of the Church. First here let the reader observe how Mr B. interesses these Answ. cheiftayns only in the power of Christ as the Apostles successors (excluding himself and the rest of his rank) that he may advance the throne of Antichrist in his chief ministers the Lord Archbishops & Bishops, whose chair he thus stoutly labours to uphold with both shoulders. Secondly I deny, that either the Evangelists, such as were Timothy, and Titus, succeeded the Apostles in their office, or that any other ministers in the Church, did or do succeed either the Apostles, or Evangelists, as they were such (as we speak). They were extraordinary officers in the first planting of the faith amongst the gentiles, their qualifications extraordinary, and miraculous, as the gift of tongues, and the like, and so their offices were determined in their persons. And yet I deny not but the true Ministers of the gospel the Bishops or Elders, in their particular Churches do succeed the Apostles (though not in office) yet in their ordinary ministration of the word, sacraments, censures, prayer, ordination, & all other ordinances of the Church whatsoever, according to the order Christ hath left; but that the Apostles and Evangelists have by any order committed their power or any part of it to any such Chief Ministers or rather Lords, yea spiritual tyrants as the Lordbishops & Archbishops in Engl. are, that I deny withal my power. There are no such cheifteyns in the Church of Christ, or communion of saints. The Apostles did, by the Churches free choice, ordain in every particular assembly a company of Elders or Bishops, whom they charged with the particular flocks, in, and to which they were to minister the holy things of God, and none other. Act. 14. 23. and 20. 17. 28. 1 Tim. 3. 1. 2. 4. Tit. 1. 5. 1 Pet. 5. ●. 2. Much less are the great Antichrists of Rome, the Popes, and Cardinals, the Apostles, and Evangelists successors in any right by the word of God, or capable in that their estate of Apostolical or other ministerial power of Christ, as you Mr B. will make them, of which your Popish error more in place. Now for the scriptures cited, they serve well to prove that which no man denies, in which kind of disputing Mr B. hath a special faculty. The scriptures are▪ 1 Tim. 1. 3. and 3. 14. 15. and 5. 21. 22. Tit. ●. 5. which places prove thus much in effect, that Timothy was to see false doctrine suppressed in Ephesus; that men gifted according to the word of God should be choose into the office of Bishops and Deacons: that he should deal unpartially in all things: that he should not partake in the sins of other men by laying hands suddenly upon any: & that Titus was left in Crete to redress things amiss, and to ordain Elders in the Churches. And what follows upon this? I know well what Mr B. infers: namely, that the chief Ministers alone in the Churches whether pure, or impure (by which latter he means the Church of Rome) as he expounds himself▪ pag. 145. that is, that Popes, Cardinals, Archbishops, Bishops, Suffragans, chancellors▪ and the rest of the triumphant Clergy, and they alone should meddle with supressing error, rectifying things amiss, calling and ordaining ministers, and that all others are absolutely inhibited any meddling with these things. Well, (to let pass your fearful retiring (Mr B.) into the battered bulwarks of the Papists for succour, and the discharging of yourself, and all the inferior ministry that these chief ministers might reign alone) the scriptures do not debarge the members of the Church from meddling in those things in their place, and order, nor impropriate them to the chief Lords, as is pretended, only they declare that the officers are to do their own duties in those businesses, and to put the brethren in remembrance of theirs, to command, teach, and speak those things, exhorting & rebuking with all authority by the word of God as occasion serves. 1 Tim. 4. 6. 11. Tit. 2. 15. And if Mr B. will conclude any thing for his purpose by the scriptures he allegeth he must take this position for granted, that whatsoever Paul writeth to Timothy, or Titus, touching the Church, about that only they, & their successors the chief ministers are to meddle; which presumptuous affirmation is sufficiently refuted by the very recital of it. He that reads over the Epistles but with a piece of an eye may see the contrary. There is no greater force in this collection then in that Mar. 13. 34. because the porter is to watch, therefore he alone, and not the rest also, which is contrary to the express words immediately following, where all are commanded to watch, v. 37. And thus the conclusion, which Mr B. would make, that the place, 1 Cor. 5. though generally spoken, must be understood of the chief officers of the Church, is without pr●mises. It must be understood as it is spoken, though both he, & the Pope say nay to it, and of the meaning of it, we shall speak hereafter at large, when we come to handle the censures of the Church, as also of your pretended proof. 2 Cor. 2. 6. Only I must needs take knowledge of that part of the truth, which Mr B. being set upon the rack of his conscience in reading this, 1 Cor. 5. is compelled to confess, and that is, that from v. 5. ●● may be gathered for the body of the Church, that the offender must be delivered to Satan with their knowledge publicly, when they meet together in the open assembly. touching which his grant I observe these three particulars. First it overthrows the practice in the Church of England, where the offender is excommunicated by the chancellor, or Official, it may be, forty miles off from the body of the congregation, whereof he is a member, and that most what without the presence of any one of the body, yea or their privity either, till such times as either the Parish Priest, or Church door signify the matter unto them. 2. If the officers must judge, and excommunicate in the open assembly, then can they alone in no sense be the Church. For the Church is nothing but the assembly. And it is all one to say the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 officers in the assembly, are the Church, as to say the officers in the assembly, are the assembly▪ which is a senseless affirmation. And if the Officers alone be the Church, to which complaint is to be made, and which is to reprove the offender and judge him, they must do it in a distinct assembly from the body, and not in the assembly compounded necessarily of the officers and the body: as your Courtkeepers do in their Consistories, & the Elders in the reformed Churches in their private Chambers. 3. It is most untrue which you say, that no more can be gathered from this place, but that excommunication was performed in the presence of the body of the Church, and with their knowledge being gathered together: it is apparent that they which were gathered together, were by the power of Christ to deliver to Satan the offender, to purge out the old leven, to judge, and to put out from among themselves that wicked fornicator. v. 5. 6. 7. 12. 13. of which more hereafter. And so I come to the 4. Reason against Popularity (as you term ●t) but in truth against Christian liberty: which is grounded upon Ephe. 4. 11. 12. Your words are these. It is most apparent that Christ ascending up gave gifts for preaching, Mr B. administration of sacraments, and government unto some sorts of men, who 〈…〉 e set out there and plainly distinguished from the other saints, the body of the Church. Against this hitherto I take no great exception: though the Apostles Answ. meaning may be better laid down thus, that Christ jesus the King and Lord of his Church hath set in it certain sorts, and orders, of officers rightly fitted, and furnished with graces for the reparation of the saints, and edification of his body to the world's end. This we affirm as loud as you, and with more comfort. And therefore after I have observed in a few words, how little this scripture serves for your present purpose, I will in as few more make it appear, how directly it serves against you in many other main matters, and that you in bringing it have only lighted a candle whereby to discover your own nakedness. This then is that which you would conclude, that because Christ hath given power, and charge to the sorts of ministers here set down for the reparation of the saints, and edification of the body, that therefore no brethren out of office may meddle with the reparation and edification of the Saints, or Church. I do acknowledge that only Apostles, Prophets, etc. by office, and as works of their Ministry, are to look to the reparation, and edification of the body: but that the brethren out of office, are discharged of those duties, I deny, any more than the rest of the servants were of watching, (though out of office) because the Porter alone was by office to watch. Mark. 13. 34 37. Yea look what is laid upon the officers in this place, after a more special manner, by virtue of their office, that also is laid upon the rest of the brethren else where in the same words to be performed in their places as a duty of love, for which they have not only liberty but charge from the Lord. The officers are here charged with the reparation or knitting together of the saints: the same duty in the same words is imposed upon every brother * Gal. 6. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 spiritual: and I hope you the Ministers will not be the only spiritual men in the Church. Secondly the officers are here given to edify the body: the same duty in the same terms is laid upon every one of the brethren in their places. 1 Thes. 5. 11. and unto these few might be added an hundred places of the same nature. Why then should the Ministers of the Lord, or any other † Num. 11. 29. 1 King. 22. 24. for their sake envy, unto the Lord's people either their graces or liberty, or thus arrogate all unto themselves, as though all knowledge were treasured up in their breasts, all power given into their hands, & as though no drop of grace for edification or comfort of the Church could fall from else where then from their lips. Moses in the place of numbers before named wished that all the Lords people were Prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them: and Paul gives liberty to * 1 Cor. 14. 3. 23. 36. 31. the whole Church, and to all in it (women excepted ver. 34.) to prophesy one by one for the instruction, edification and comfort of all: but with Mr B: and his Church, I perceive, neither Moses prayer, nor Paul's grant, nor God's spirit must be available, or find acceptance for edification by any save the Ministers. The subjects of Kings use to complain much of Monopolies, but the subjects of the Lord jesus have greater cause of complaint, that he himself, his power, presence, and graces wherewith he honoureth all his saints, are thus monopolised, and engrossed. The similitude which here you borrow from the body of man, wherein (you say) the special members have their special virtues in themselves given of God and not bestowed upon them by the body, as the eyes to see, the tongue to speak etc. for the confirmation of the power of the Lord jesus, or liberty to teach, admonish, and censure in the hands of the officers alone is faulty in both parts of it, and contains in it sundry errors both theological, and philosophical. And first I do here most justly except against your shuffling together I. and confounding of the personal gifts, graces, and virtues of the Ministers and their ministerial power or office. The first in deed they have from Christ, and not from, or by the Church at all, as their knowledge, zeal, utterance, wisdom, holiness, and the like: with which the Church finds them furnished, & so appoints them under Christ to use these gifts in office of Ministry, whereof out of office they have erst given knowledge: & this power or appointment, which they have from or by the Church thus to vs● these gifts is another thing than their personal gifts, and qualifications themselves, which you Mr B. do very fraudulently confound. Secondly, it is ignorantly affirmed, that God endues certain members II. of the body with special virtues and properties, as th●●y with seeing, and the like: & that they have thes properties not from the body but from God. For first the very virtue, or faculty of seeing is not in the eye, but in the soul, which useth the eye only for the instrument of seeing, & so other parts in their kind. Oculus non vide●, sed anima per oculi●●. And that not immediately neither, but with the help of the spirits, natural, vital, and animal diffused throughout the body, which the soul useth most immediately as the instruments of all life, sense, & motion. And so it comes to pass not only in death where the soul and body are separated, but in sundry diseases also of the body, that the ey faileth in seeing, and so other members in their service. Thirdly, as the Elders of the Church (I confess) may be compared III. to eyes in the body, and the Deacons to hands in a respect, so I deny the similitude to hold absolutely. Similitudes (as they say) do not run upon four feet: & to strain them above that which is intended by the holy Ghost in using them, is a course full both of vanity and error. The Deacons are the hands of the Church for the distribution of her bodily things to them that need, & yet I trow, you would not have the Church suffer the poor to starve, where the Deacons are wanting to minister, or failing in their ministration: so are the Elders the eyes & mouth of the Church for her government, and ministration of spiritual things, & yet must not the Church perish spiritually for their want, or negligence: no, the Lord is more merciful to his people then so, and doth nor tie them so short in the means of their edification, & salvation, how strait and hard hearted soever you M. B. are towards them, or contemptuous of them: they may, and must use in cases of necessity their best helps, for the distribution of things simply necessary to the body. And dare you say (as you have done in both your books) that the officers are absolutely to the Church, as the eyes to the body? and that there is no spiritual light in the rest of the members save only in them? and that all the body beside and without them is darkness? Indeed such a blind beetle your spiritual Lords, and you make your Churches, and so you lead them. But, oh you the people of God, yet in Babylon, partakers of the heavenly illumination, trust not these your Seers too much. they would be thought all eye from top to bottom, and would make you believe, that you the multitude are stoneblind, and can not possibly without them see one step before you, that so they might lead you by the lip, whither they list: but open your eyes more and more, and you shall see more and more clearly that the ways of your national Church▪ are not the ways which Christ hath left for his visible Churches to walk in, but a very by path: and take heed that these men, which would be thought all, and only light, cause not a ●og of earthly ordinances to rise upon you, and a dark mist to cover you. To proceed. This one scripture, Ephe. 4. 11. 12. truly expounded, and according to the Apostles meaning, serves at one blow to overthrow the whole ministry of your Church of England, and all communion with it. Your whole plea for your Ministry is, that you teach the word of God, & the true word of God, and therewith you invite all your guests unto your banquet. But now if your ministry be not the Ministry which Christ hath set up in his Ch: no● of the gifts, which he hath given unto his Church, but of an other sort, & foundation, than it follows that no fellowship or communion is to be had with it under any plausible pretence, nor upon any experimental profit neither. The officers then which Christ hath given for the edification of his Church to the world's end are, Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, & Teachers, Ephe. 4. 11. 12. Now the first three sorts of these abovenamed were extraordinary, & extraordinarily endued, for the first publishing of faith, and planting of Churches, and so as temporary are ceased, with their endowments, and this you grant in effect, pag. 184. of your last book. And for the Pastor● and Teachers here spoken of, you Mr B: and the Ministers of your order would be thought the men. Of what sort then (I pray you) are your grand Metropolitans, your Archbishops, Bishops, Suffragans, Deans, Archdeacon's, chancellors, Officials and the residue of that Lordly Clergy? They must needs be of some other order than is here named, and the gifts of some other chief Lord then of Christ, when he ascended on high, and gave his gifts, & that is Antichrist, whose gifts they were when he ascended on high, even to the throne of his Apostasy. And now for you, which are set over the particular Parishes, to teach the people, (as I confess you of all the rest to be likest unto the true Pastors) so by your own confession are you excluded from that rank. The Officers which Christ hath appointed, when he ascended, have received power (by your own assertion) not only for preaching and administering the sacraments, but for government also. The pag. 92. want then of the power of government bewrayeth you to be another's gift than Christ's, even his and none others, which hath devised an other order, and distribution of gifts then ever came into Christ's heart to appoint. Lastly, as it is true you affirm, that Christ never said to the body of the congregation, viz: in express terms, go preach, so is it most untrue which you intent, viz: that he never gave liberty, and charge to any out of office to teach in the exercise of prophecy. This point I have touched formerly, but will more fully handle hereafter. The same I also affirm in the second place touching the power of government, not opposing your words well interpreted, but your meaning, which is, that none but men in office have power either to reform any abuse in the Church or to perform any other necessary Church duty without them. And for shutting up of this fourth Argument, let it be considered, that here is a great difference in administration of doctrine by teaching, and of admonition & excommunication in the order of discipline. Only one man in the Church doth teach at once, and all the rest both Elders & people are taught by him, but the whole Church may admonish, or excommunicate one or more at once, or by one act: and so though Christ never say to the Church, go teach, yet, he saith to the Ch: admonish, & excommunicate. Mat. 18. 17. 1 Cor. 5. 4. 5. In doctrine one man teacheth the whole Church, & the whole Church is taught: in discipline the whole Church reproveth and excommunicateth one man and hi● censureth. And thus your light Mr B. which you boast, is as clear● as the sun in the firmament of heaven, is darkened, your sun is gone down at noon day. Amos 8. 9 The fifth reason is thus laid down. It is never to be found in all the old testament that the people, but princes Mr B. and ecclesiastical governors men in authority were reproved for suffering holy things to be abused. Ezech. 22. 26. 1▪ Sam. 2. 27. 1 King. 13. so in the new testament, Math. 23. Rev. 2. 1. 8. 12. 18. and 3. 1. 7. 14. no mention in these places is made of the people. It seems Mr B. hath learned of them which give counsel to affirm Answ. all things peremptorily, under hope to find some men with whom a confident affirmation will go as far as a modest proof. But here as always I do except against (as a corner stone of Babylon) your unequal yoking of ecclesiastical Officers & Ministers in the government of the Church, with Princes & Magistrates in their civil authority: there is no proportion betwixt them. A Lion and an Ox will payr better than these two kinds of governors, and governments. Neither can it be rightly said of Church officers that they are men in authority: they are men in * 2 Chr. 35 3. Num. 16 9 Rom. 16. 31. 2 Cor. 4. 5. service and charge, whether we respect God, or the Church. They have power, I grant, for they have the † Rom. 1. 16 1 Cor 5. 4. 5 gospel to preach & minister, which is, the power of God to salvation: they are to speak with ‘* ●i●. 2. 15 authority, and that also in the order of office, and by special commission. And so the Evangelists testify of Christ, that “ Mat. 1. 7. 28. 29. Mar. 1. 22. he taught as having authority, and not as the scribes: the reason was, that where the manner of teaching amongst the Scribes was very corrupt, and degenerate, affecting the people's hearts with no reverence of God, Christ on the contrary did manifest in his teaching such virtue, and vigour of the spirit, as did draw even the profane hearers into admiration. There are in deed in the common wealth Kings, and Magistrates in authority under them, partakers of their kingly power by subordination, by which participation they properly and effectually even as the King himself, bind and loose, save and destroy, exact and procure obedience civilly both in Church and common wealth, and that by a kingly and lordly power over the people, whose Kings, Lords, and Masters they are: but the Officers in the Church are in no such authority by participation of Christ's kingly power, neither can they properly and effectually bind and loose, save and destroy, exact and procure obedience as Christ doth: neither are they, as civil Magistrates, though the King's servants, and ministers, yet the people's Lords, and masters, but both Christ's, and the people's servants, and Ministers. Now let any judge that hath in him either religion, or reason, conscience or common sense, if it be not irreligious, unconscionable, unreasonable, and senseless that the body of the Church should have no more liberty and power in the employments of their servants and Ministers in their Office, than the body of the common wealth in the employments of their Lords, and Masters in their Office. To this also I may add, that there are many civil ordinances and constitutions in the common wealth which concern not one of a thousand of the King's people, many Magistrates & Officers chosen the inferior by the superior without the people's privity or consent, many administrations used, judgements passed, & executions done, which the greatest part of the people do not (nor are bound) so much as once to inquire after: much less are they bound to complain of the breach of every civil ordinance, to see it reform, to charge every Magistrate to look to his office, to admonish him if in any thing he deal corruptly, or wickedly, and if he will not be reclaimed but go obstinately on (in the spirit of an Haeretick, Idolater, or Atheist) to disclaim or depose him: but in the Church, all and every ordinance concerns every person (as a part of their communion) (without the dispensation of necessity) for their use, and † 1 Cor. 3. 22. & 14. 26. edification: all the * Act. 1. 15 23. 26. and 6. 1. 2. 3. 5. and 14. 23. & 15. 2. 3. 2. Cor. 8. 19 23. Officers to be chosen by suffrages and consent of the multitude: the brethren are to admonish their brethren of every violation of God's commandment, and so in order to ‘* Mat. 18 15. 17. 18. tell the Church, and to see the parties reform: to observe and to take notice of the officers carriage, and ministration, and to “ Col. 4. 17. say to Archippus (as there is need) take heed to thy ministry, that thou hast received of the Lord, that thou fulfil it: and if the Ministers will deal corruptly, and so persevere in the spirit of profaneness, heresy, idolatry, or atheism, to ‘† Math. 18. 17. Rom. 16. 17. 18. Gal. 5. 12. 1 Tim. 6. 3. 4. 5. 2 Tim. 3. 1 2. 3. 4. 5. Tit. 3. 10. 11. censure, depose, reject or avoid them: otherwise they betray their own souls, and salvation. These things I thought good, upon this occasion further to annexed, touching the difference and dissimilitude of civil and ecclesiastical governors and government, not doubting for conclusion to affirm, that there is no one error in Popery serving more directly to advance Antichrist to the highest step of his throne, or there to establish him, than thus to confound these two estates in their authority, and manner of government: though (alas) too many will needs transform Ministers into Magistrates, servants into Lords: and as * Rev. 17. 3. 4. 13. the Kings of the earth have given their power & authority unto the beast, and arrayed the great whore tha● fitteth upon the beast, with purple, and scarlet, and gilded her with gold, precious stones, and pearls, so do they still help her to hold her kingly & lordly authority, and to bear up her pompous train, and that specially by enforcing those scriptures for ecclesiastical government, and the manner and order of it, which were left for direction in civil governments, and their administrations. And yet for more special answer unto you Mr Bernard, it follows not, that, because the people are not interessed in the reformation of abuses by the scriptures you cite, therefore it is never found either in the old, or new testament, that any such duty lies upon them. The scriptures do not intend to speak of all things at once, but that charge, which is omitted in one place, is oft times supplied, and prescribed in another. And to this purpose, I do desire that these few scriptures amongst many others may be considered of: Num. 5 1. 2. josh. 7. 1. 11. 12. 24. 25. & 22. 11. 12.— 16. 17. 18. 20. judg. 20. 11. 12. 2 Sam. 20. 22. Ezech. 44. 5. 6. 7. 9 Luke, 17. 3. 4. Gal. 6. 1. 1 Thes. 5. 14. 1 Cor. 5. whole Ch. & all these & many other of the same nature will manifest, that the people are charged with the reformation of abuses for the keeping pure of their communion, as well as the officers, though not in the same order, or degree. But what need we seek further? as all the scriptures brought forth by Mr Bern. do charge the govervours with reformation, and none of them exempt the people in their rank, and order, so are there some of them so pregnant against him in the point, & by which he hath been so oft silenced to his face, that, if he had not set himself in opposition, without all measure, or modesty, he would never offer his cause to be tried by that evidence in writing, by which in speech, he hath been so oft cast and convinced. The scriptures I especial mean are Rev. 2. & 3. And the thing which he would prov● from those scriptures is, that, because john in the verses named by him, speaks to the Angels of the particular Churches, that therefore it conernes the Angels, that is, the chief officers alone, and no way the people (no nor any of the Officers but one in a Church by Mr Bernard's exposition) to see to the reformation of such abuses, and disorders, as in those Churches are reproved. But if in these scriptures he thus sever, and sejoyne the officers, and people, why might not the officers be excluded by a● good consequence, by other verses of these Chapters, where mention is made of the Churches, and not of the Angels, as the people in these, where the Angels only, and not the people are mentioned? and both alike. The answer, and truth than is, that john * Rev. 1. 11. writes and sends these Epistles or this book, to the 7. Churches in Asia, as he is expressly directed by Christ: & so willeth all men to † Chap. 2. 7. 11. 17. 29. & 3. 6. 13. 22. hear, and take knowledge what the spirit saith to the Churches: but because the matters were public, & he absent from the Churches, it was both most convenient, & necessary he should direct his letters to the officers for the whole Churches, as being not only most fit for their knowledge, but most bound by their places to provoke the Churches unto, and to direct and go before them in the reformation of such evils as were found amongst them. As if the King at any time write his letters to any corporation in the land about some such public business, as wherein every free man hath an hand, he directs them to the MAYOR, BAYLY, or some other chief officer, by whom they are to be published to the whole body, and the matter managed, which they contain, though as I formerly said, every freeman be to speak to, and consent in the business. And here it is too much Mr B. should say (as he doth) that no mention in these places of the revelation is made of the people, but of the governors only, where Christ expressly enjoins john to write his vision, and to send it unto the 7. Churches, ver. 11. where john expressly salutes them with grace and peace, as Paul and others do them to whom they write in the beginning of their letters, v. 4. Where he also calls those candlesticks he saw in his vision, the Churches, though distinguished from the Officers, or Angels, whom he calls stars, or lights. ver. 12. 13. 20. and lastly and specially where after his both commendations, & reproofs, promises, and threatenings, he wills men to listen what the spirit saith not of, but unto the Churches. Chap, 2. 7. 11. 17. 29. & 3. 6. 13. 22. which do necessarily conclude the people in them. But to let pass generals, & to come to such particulars in these Chapters, as wherein the suffering of evils in the Churches is reproved. Only I must needs show Mr B. his great oversight, that, where he should prove, that only the angels of the Churches were reproved for suffering evils unreformed, he points us to sundry Angels, and Churches, where there is no mention at all made of suffering evils, but all of doing, as well by the Angels, as Churches, as in Ephesus, Sardi, and Laodicea: and which is worse, unto other Angels, and Churches, where there were no evils at all worthy reproof either done or suffered: as in Smyrna, and Philadelphia. And is not this sound dealing? The Lord jesus finds nothing in the Ch: of Smyrna & Phyladelphia worthy of taxation, but all of commendation, ergo the chief governors only in these Churches are reproved for suffering evils unreformed. I now come to the particular scriptures, in number two, where mention is made of evils suffered unreformed, and reproof laid upon them which suffered them in the two Churches of Pergamus and Thyatira. And that john directs his reproofs against the Churches, and not against the Officers alone, I do thus manifest. 1. Them, whose works Christ commends, for that, dwelling where Satan's throne was, they kept his name, and denied not his faith, etc. them I say he reproves, and against them he deals, for suffering them that mounteyn the doctrine of Balaam, & of the Nichola●tans, v. 13. 14. 15. 16. 2. They which are commended by Christ for their works, love, service, faith, patience, and increase in works, they are also reproved by him for suffering the woman jezebel, the false Prophetess to teach and to deceive, vers. 19 20. But it were senseless to affirm, that the Angel alone, and not the people with him, was commended for dwelling where Satan's throne was, keeping Christ's name, and not denying his faith in persecution, that the Angel alone was commended for his works, love, service, faith, patience, and the like, and as senseless, as to affirm, that only some of the Angel of the Church of Smyrna was to be cast into prison. ver. 10, and therefore, as the faithful, the brethren, the saints, the people, had their portion in these Christian virtues, and in the commendations given unto them, so also do they bear their part in the reproofs due to the toleration of such evils as were found amongst them, and are exhorted to repentance. v. 16. And this the two adversative conjunctions but & notwithstanding, or nevertheless, v. 14. & 20. do evidently declare. In many graces these Churches did abound, and faithful they were in great trials, but, or notwithstanding in this they failed that they were not zealous enough against such deceivers, as crept in amongst them, but suffered them to others hurt, & their own danger also. ver. 24. Of these things I have spoken something the more at large, to discover the bold injury which Mr B. offereth unto these scriptures: which may also serve to manifest both the liberty & duty of the people for the reforming of abuses in the Churches, against the usurpation of the English, or other Clergy whatsoever. Now to that which is inferred by way of conclusion, that 1 Cor. 5. must be expounded by other places, and by the whole course of scripture, & the like, & that, tell the Church, Mat. 18. 17. must be understood, tell the chief Officers of the Church, these severals must be answered. First let it always be remembered, that we believe, and confess that the Elders which Christ hath left in his Church, are to govern the same in all things (provided always the nature of ecclesiastical government be not exceeded) according to the laws by him prescribed, and that so doing, the brethren are most straitly bound to obey them, without disturbance, intrusion, or opposition, under pain of God's wrath for their rebellion against him, and them. Heb. 13. 17. But as else where is observed, it is one thing to be the Church, an other thing to govern the Church, one thing for the officers to direct, and go before the brethren in all things as guides, and another matter utterly to exclude the brethren from any part of the communion, as neither being the Church, nor any part of it, as this exposition doth. These things Mr B. ignorantly blunders together, and so he and others raise odious clamours against us of Anabaptism, popularity, and the like, as if we confounded all persons, and things, and made the Church a very Chaos, or Babel, without form or order. 2. I acknowledge that one scripture must be expounded by an other, but ever the more dark, and obscure by that which is more plain and lightsome: now so plain, clear evident, and perspicuous are the two scriptures in hand for excommunication, the former Mat. 18. 15. 16. 17. for the order and degrees of proceeding, the other 1 Cor. 5. for the persons interessed in the buesinesse, as that to bring in other scriptures for the expounding of them, is in truth as needless, and lost a labour, as to light the sun and moon a candle. Now for the places, severally, and first for Math. 18. 17. where Mr Bern. saith Mr B. tell the Church, is tell the chief officers of the Church: and so must be expounded. Well, the words are clear as the sun, tell the Church, that is, Answ. the congregation or assembly whereof the offender is a member. But where you make the Church, not the officers simply, but the chief officers, therein you deal both wisely and dutifully. Wisely (to let pass other respects) in preventing a question, which otherwise you could not possibly answer: for if you had said the officers simply, it would have demanded of you where your & your fellow Ministers power of excommunication had been: duetify, & as an obedient child in giving the rod of discipline into the hands of your reverend fathers alone, and their substitutes. Well Mr B. whomsoever the Lord jesus meant by the Church, Mat. 18. he never meant, that the Archbishop of York, the Archdeacon of Nottingham, the Official of Southwel, were the Church of Worksop: and for this I will spare all Arguments, and send you to your own guilty conscience for conviction, which as it condemns you in yourself, (which is also the case of many thousands in the Land) so do I earnestly wish both you, and them to remember with fear and trembling the condemnation of him that is greater than your conscience. joh. 3. 20. So far are they from being the Church of Worksop as they are not so much as members of it, nor of any other particular Church in the kingdom: they are neither the Pastors (so called) nor under the Pastors of any particular Church, but with their tanscendent jurisdiction in their Provincial, and Diocesan Churches, take their scope without orb, or order: and as clouds without rain, carried about with the wind of ambition, and covetousness for the the greatest part. To leave them, and come to your reason's Mr B. by which you would prove, that tell the Church, is tell the governors. But here behold the fruits of an unstable mind. This man in his former book laboured by many scriptures, and reasons to lay down the nature of the Church's government, and in special to prove, that the Church, Math. 18. 17. to which complaint of sins was to be made, was the chief officers only, and this he affirms also to be * Pag. 98. the judgement, and the practice of all reformed Churches. But lo now in his second book, he devours the hallowed thing, and labours withal his power to persuade † pag. 211. 212. young divines, & silly country people, (as he speaks) (and as in truth they had need be both young, and silly, that are persuaded by him) that the points of discipline and Church-government are not so apparent by the scriptures, as that they can rightly judge of them. And to this end he brings in the variety of judgements, and contradictions of learned men, some holding no government at all, others that an external government is to be had, but of these, some holding it alterable, others constant, and perpetual, and of these some to be in the Pope, & Cardinals, others in the body of the congregation, some in the Presbytery, with the people's consent, and others, (which he puts last, as best and for which he brings sundry reasons, referring the reader to the treatises written to that end) in the Bishops his Lords. And again touching the punishment of offenders, some he brings in holding excommunication, but not suspension, some holding both, and some neither. And particularly for Math. 18. he musters in thick, and threefold reasons and persons so reasoning, and proving, that the place (and so of Lev. 19 17.) doth nothing at all concern discipline, or ecclesiastical censures, but that Christ's meaning there was only to direct the jews how to carry things before the Synedrion, in cases of bodily injury. And thus he brings men's contrary opinions to darken the scriptures, which are most plain, like so many foul feet to trouble the pure fountains of living water, that the thirsty may not drink of them. And as a learned man in our age, & nation, to discover the vanity of prognosticatours, gathered together their contrary guesses of the wether, and so presented them: so this man to make the government of Christ's Church as uncertain as an Almanac, sets together, and so offers to the wiew of the world the contrarieties of opinions concerning it. Now if other men should take this course Mr B. doth, in other points of religion, and one lay down the differences that are about predestination & the points depending upon it, some utterly denying it, others affirming it, and of these some grounding it upon God's mere grace, others upon man's faith, or works foreseen: an other about baptism, some denying it to all infants, others ministering it to all, others to such only as are of Christian parents in a sort, and others only to them that are of believing parents, at the least on the one side: a third about the Lords supper, in which point some hold transubstantiation, others consubstantiation, others only a sacramental union, which some also will have merely rational, others real also: there could not be a plainer way beaten for all Atheism to come into the world by, nor a course devised by the Devil more pregnant to persuade the multitude, that there were no certainty, nor soundness in the scriptures. But let God have the glory of his truth, and of the clearness in it, and let men bear the just blame, and shame of their natural blindness: and in special let Christ have the honour of being as * Heb. 3. 5. 6. faithful in his own house, as Moses was in his Masters, in setting orders and officers in it and let not vile flesh dare to flatter Princes and Prelates, to misled silly souls, and to preach liberty and licentiousness to the world, make Christ jesus an Idol King, having a kingdom upon earth without laws, or officers, for the administering of it: nor to make his redeemed, Idol subjects, as whom it concerns little or nothing, whether they be under Chrits laws, and officers, or under antichrist's his professed adversary. Now though I will not trouble myself, and the reader about every stone, that Mr. B. idly casts in the way, yet such as may stumble the weakest passenger, I will remove, and so return to my former task. And in the first place I will answer certain reasons in number six, brought by Mr B. for the superiority of his Lord Bishops: but those not backed with the scriptures, as in other points (when he thinks he speaks the truth) his manner is. The first is taken from the succession of james at jerusalem, of Mr B. Peter at Antioch, of Peter & Paul at Rome, & of Mark at Alexandria. I. I answer first, that these were not Bishops set over certain Churches Ans. here, and there, (though upon occasion they tarried some good space in some certain Churches) but general men, Apostles, and Evangelists, without successors in their Offices: & so the Protestants do generally answer the Papists instancing them, as you do now. 2. I deny the very Apostles used any such Lordly and Papal authority, as to exclude either the inferior officers, or people in Church affairs: the contrary is most evident in the choice of officers, Act. 1. 15. 23. 26. and 6. 1. 2. 3. 5. censuring of offenders▪ 1 Cor. 5. and debating of other Church matters. Act. 15. 2. 3. 4. 6. 7. 22. 23. 30. & 21. 22. The 2. Argument is taken from 1 Cor. 12. 28. where, say you, II. three degrees are reckoned up, the first of Apostles, the second of Prophets, the third of Teachers. But since the two former orders, which are Apostles, and Prophets, are ceased as being temporary, how can there be superiority in the third, which is but one? Your third and fourth Argument you draw from the superiority III. IU. ordained by God in the old testament, amongst ecclesiastical persons: and the consequence of this Argument you prove two ways: first because this order is not forbidden in the new testament: 2. because the ground of superiority is alike in the new testament, as in the old which is to preserve order. But do you not consider Mr Bernard that * Heb. 8. 13. & 10. 1. the old testament or law is abrogated, and disannulled, as having the shadow of good things to come? and so every order, and ordinance in it, which is not plainly renewed by Christ in the new? And where you seem to make the Chief Priests besides the high Priest, a superior order to the other formally differing, it is more (if I be not deceived) then can be proved by the word of God. I know no diversity of administrations amongst them, but that any of the Priests might in their course, and order offer sacrifice, & perform other the most solemn duties of priesthood. But where you further add that only the high Priest did type out Christ, and not the other Priests so: you are much mistaken. The whole priesthood of Aaron, † Heb. 10. 1. Heb. 7. 11 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 under which the law was established, was a type of Christ's priesthood (though the high Priests in a special manner) and their sacrifices, of his: and being a part of the law (which was a shadow or first draft, whereof the gospel is the lively portraiture) it must needs be ceremonial, and so a type: & to affirm otherwise is a gross jewish error. Lastly as I grant one end of the subordination of ministries to have been the preserving of order, so I deny that same order is to be preserved in the new testament, and in the old. The order of the old testament was the order of a national Church, but the order of the new testament is the order of a particular Church, wherein there needs no such subordination of ministries as in the other which was national, the eye of common sense sees this difference. The law of nature whether written in the heart of man, or to be seen in the workmanship of the world, from which you draw your fifth Argument, doth not prove superiority amongst officers in a V. particular assembly, but only that there must be government in all societies, which may well be, though the governors be of one order, and rank. Lastly they against whom you deal, do maintain (as you say) VI an inequality in their government, in making the Pastor superior to the Teacher. etc. and if they do so, why deal you against them? and why do you labour so carefully to prove against them their own practice to be lawful? though if they had not better warrant than you bring, they were ill bestead. But this is the point, Mr B. (which you never touch) do they which hold two kinds of officers, teaching, and governing Elders, or they which hold three orders, Pastors, Teachers, and governing Elders, either of them both hold such a superiority, as gives the superior jurisdiction over the inferior Ministers? do they make a Bishop of Bishops, or a shepherd over a flock of shepherds? or do they set up any such ravenous creature, as devours the liberty, and power both of the people, and other officers, as your Bishops do, even as * Gen. 41. 18. 19 20. the lean and evil favoured kine, which joseph saw in his dream, ate up the fat kine, and well-favoured: And for the erroneous exposition of Luke, Luk. 22. 25. 26. by D. Downame, and D. Dove, of which you boast, it hath been confuted both before, and since they gave it. Now howsoever I purpose not the refutation of every particular in Mr B. second volume, which he might have drawn into as few lines well nigh as he hath done leaves, had he not rather desired to have uttered many words, than many things: yet seeing how he labours, even till sweeting, to trouble the minds of his young students, and silly countrymen, especially about the government, & discipline of the Church, not caring how absurd expositions of scriptures he admits of, nor how contrary one unto an other, so he may weaken the faith of any that way, I will not therefore altogether hold off mine hand, but will open as I go, his unsound dealing in this case, especially about Mat. 18. 15. 16. 17. which he will no way have meant of the piscipline or censures of the Church, & the order of proceeding therein, but that Christ's meaning there, is to direct the jews how to prosecute their suits in matter of injury before the heathenish Magistrates. And this he labours, p. 218. 219. and so on, to prove by many objections, & answers, yet (as borrowed from other men's books) so put out as other men's sayings, that by this means he himself may avoid some part of that just hatred, by the better sort of people, which he knows will lie upon this odious and ungodly gloss. First then Mr Bernard grants, pag. 212. that Christ hath left a government in his Church, and so consequently an order for the censuring of offenders, and he accounts the contrary opinion but a familisticall conceit, and yet this truth he cannot let pass without some untruth at the end of it, and therefore he adds that to this familisticall conceit, the silly Brownists are drawn by force of their own grounds, which are because they will have all in the Church to be voluntary professors; where voluntarynes is taken away by being under any government: to be subject, & ruled is an estate far from freedom: Christians loose thereby Christian liberty, etc. And say in good sooth Mr B. would you have men unvoluntary professors against their wills, their profession must either be voluntary, with their wills, or unvoluntary, and against them. “ Gen. 9 27 Noah prophesying the calling of the Gentiles of japhets' line, foretells, that God will allure or persuade them to dwell in Shems tents. And the scriptures do expressly affirm, that the Churches were gathered by * Act. 28. 24. 2 Cor. ●. 13. persuasion, & voluntary submission unto the gospel. And it is a strange thing, even above wonder, that any man should have preached so many years, and written so many books about religion, and yet not know, that the nature of religion is not to be constrained, but persuaded. And tell me (Mr B.) did you subscribe the last time unto your Bishop's government sponte & ex animo, according to the Canon, yea, or no? Of if you think that to curious a question, answer me, whether you be under the King's government voluntarily, or against your will? If against your will, it is a treacherous disposition in you: if voluntarily, or willingly, how seelely then do you (which are thus rife in imputing seelines unto others) argue, that voluntariness is taken away by being under any government? as though all government were tyranny, and all obedience slavery: but reason, why Mr B. should thus speak, know I none, except it be, because in the Church of England the Ecclesiastical government of & canonical obedience unto the prelates is such, as he speaks of▪ by which Christians indeed loose Christian liberty: but in the easy yoke of Christ it is not so. And if Christians must be subject to * Rom. 13. 3. 5. 6. Princes in civil affairs for conscience sake (than which nothing is more voluntary,) how much more is the subjection of the saints unto the government of Christ, most free and voluntary, yea by how much more full and entire Christ's government is over the Saints whether within, or without, by so much more voluntary, and free, is their obedience both ways. And so pass on to the thing I che●●ly intent, and that is to show, that if there be a government left for the Ch:, and order set for the punishment of offenders by Christ the King thereof, that then this 18. of Mat. is the place, where that order is to be found. Let Mr B: that I may use his own words, Pag. 224. 225. declare where else is (not a more perfect rule, but) any rule for it left by Christ, or not any supply, but any mention made, else where &c. The reasons now follow in the next place by which Mr B. would prove that Christ jesus, Mat. 18. 15. 16. 17. speaks not of Church admonitions, and censures, but of private injuries, and the civil managing of them. His first reason is taken from the coherence of these verses with ●. that which goes before in the Chapter: where Christ, admonisheth his disciples to take heed both of the offences that should be given, as also of offending others. True Mr B. for the meaning of Christ was not only to prepare them against the manifold scandals, and stumbling stones of offence (especially in the new kingdom to which he prepared them) which Satan would cast before them every step they took, either to turn them out of the way of life, or to stop them in it: but also to lay straight charge upon them, that they for their parts cast no stumbling blocks before others: admonishing them very severely neither easily to take nor to give offence. And because through pride in ourselves, and contempt of others we are emboldened to give offence, especially to them, in whom we behold any great infirmities, our saviour Christ proceeds to show what great care the Lord takes for the meanest of his, and what account he makes of them, teaching them all moderation and compassion towards them in their infirmities. But least any should then say, if it be so, the best way is to let men alone in their sins, Christ prescribes a remedy for this evil, even that golden mean, v. 15. 16. 17. that we should neither be bitter or rigorous towards them to cause them to scandalise, nor yet so remiss, as by connivency to flatter them in their sins. For the occasion of the words, & the Argument taken from it, II. because the author puts it down, not as he proves it to be, but as it is thought, I pass it by as one of the thoughts spoken of by the wise man, in the Prov. and with it the scope, which he tells us, is held to be a moderating of the jews passion for private injuries offered, as being both together, & with them the exposition also in the 4. place, as being only so many beggings of the question in hand. The sum of which exposition is (for to relate all Mr Bernard's words were too tedious) that if one jew offered an other injury, and would not satisfy him when he required it, either privately or with a witness or two, the party injured was to complain to the jewish Synedrion, and if that would not serve the turn, he might if he would proceed with him, and bring him before the Romayn power, and sue him at Caesar's ●arr, as if he were a publican, or heathen. The reasons now to prove this interpretation follow. And the first is because Christ spoke according no the time, as Mat. 5. 23. 26. It follows not that because Christ so spoke that one time, and in that one place, that therefore, he so speaks here. What is less forcible? 2. As Christ in that place spoke both ecclesiastically and civilly, as you expressly affirm, so, if you grant in proportion, that he speaks here both civilly for injuries, and ecclesiastically for sins, you speak truth enough at the least to overthrow yourself. Your second and third proofs taken from Peter's understanding of Christ, and Christ's answer again in the parable (though it were no strange thing for Peter to understand that civilly, which Christ spoke spiritually, nor for Christ to reply according to the present understanding) do not show that Christ's speech is to be restrained to personal injuries: the contrary shall appear by, and by: And the same answer may serve to the 4. and 6. Argument. The fifth Argument is taken from the propriety of speech in the text: as first because Christ saith, against thee, which (say you) shows the offence to be private, etc. I grant it, and that Christ there fetches his beginning from private, or rather from secret offences, and sins, which being known unto one only, may by one be remitted. Your second Argument is drawn from this term brother, which shows (say you) that Christ meant the jews, whom alone both the jews and disciples of Christ did account brethren. If Christ meant only jews, what makes it matter, if the jews only were brethren, that is of the Church? but it is not true you say, that only jews were accounted brethren by the disciples of Christ at that time: Christ shows that they which believe, and obey his words, are his, and so his disciples * Math. 12. 49. 50. brethren as did amongst others, † joh. 4. 39 41. 42. many of the Samaritans, which were no jews, long before this time. That these words thou hast gained or won thy brother, show an alienation of mind in the party that doth the injury, is idle, as the former. For the alienation of mind will rather be in him that hath received the injury, which a man may do of ignorance, self love, covetousness, or other by regards, without any change of his affection towards the person injured: the words in truth show, that the lost sheep is found, the sinner converted. The next words are, let him be to thee, which, you tell us, shows such a Church as the offender might not regard, and so the plaintiff unremyed might seek further. If you mean by these words might not regard, that he might lawfully not regard it, you err; if that he might be so wicked, as not to regard, it is no new thing for wicked persons to disregard the Church of Christ. Your addition of dismissing to further proceeding, is your own, and so I leave it to you. And the reason why Christ saith, let him be to thee is, because the brother spoken to was the first and principal in the accusation: as under the law, the accuser of the false Prophet must “ Deut. 13. 9 first have his hand upon him, whom the rest of the people must follow in putting him to death. The last words Publican and Heathen do not declare that Christ speaks of the jews at that time either only, or civilly, but serve for other purposes, as I shall presently manifest, taking Arguments from these words, as from all the rest, to prove, that Christ here speaks of sin, and of excommunication for sin. My first Reason I draw from the coherence, wherein I have formerly I. manifested, Christ speaks not of private injuries only, but of all such scandals, as are to be found in that strait way to heaven: no nor of injuries at all as they hurt the outward man, but as they are sins, and hurt, and hinder the soul in the way of godliness: and so by the consequence of coherence, (if Christ's words hang one upon an other) he speaks v. 15. 16. 17. of sin and the carrying of it. 2. I reason from the term brother, which, since it appertained II. at this time from the disciples, to many, which might not be brought before the jewish Synedrion, as to the believing Romans, Samaritans, and the like, cannot be meant as is pretended, but speaks of a religious fellowship to which any brother may be brought, of what country, or condition soever. As the word ha●artáno, turned offend, is of general signification by III. your own grant, and so cannot be restrained to that particular kind of offence: so is it most properly used for sin, and that usually by this Evangelist. Mat. 3. 6. & 9 2. & 12. 31. and 26. 28. and which is specially to be observed, when Luke would speak of trespasses, or offences as sins against God, he useth this word, but when in the same place he speaks of them, as of injuries against men, he useth another word. Ch. 11. 4. And see how sound Mr B. deals, when he should show that the word turned offend is not meant of sins, but of injuries, he brings in four principal writers varying (as he saith) about the word: and yet the unadvised man considers not, that all four of them, as he himself alleges them, understand it of sin, and not one of them of injuries, & so speak against him. If Christ here spoke of injuries, where he saith, if he hear thee, thou FOUR hast won or gained thy brother, he would have said, thou hast won or gained thy goods, or good name wherein he injuryed thee. If these words be meant of injuries, and wrongs, than Christ V. commands his disciples not to suffer wrongs at their brethren's hands, but to deal with them in the order here prescribed, for Christ expressly commands to tell the Church: and so Christ's doctrine, and Paul's teaching the * 1 Cor. 6. 7. suffering of wrong should contradict the one the other. By this exposition one jew might account an other as an heathen, VI which was utterly unlawful, he might not refuse religious communion with him in the temple, into which no heathen might come; he might not deny him a portion in the land of Canaan the type of the kingdom of heaven: he might not account or call him other then a brother, whatsoever he were, till the time came of the jews defraction or breaking off for unbelief. Act. 7. 2. & 22. 1. & 33. 1. Rom. 11. 17. This interpretation confirms a point of Anabaptistry, namely, VII. that it is not lawful for brethren so remaining, to sue at Caesar's bar, where it is most evident, that brethren always might, and may, yea & (such a case may fall out) ought to sue, without any alienation of affection, or such heathenish thought one of another, as Mr B. would have Christ in this place to commend unto them: for even these last words let him be to thee as an heathen and publican are a commandment, as † Mat. ●. 37. let your speech be yea, yea, nay, nay, & hundreds others delivered in the scriptures under the same form of words. And to conclude, Christ our Saviour in these words describes excommunication by the effects of it, which are, withdrawing from the brother obstinate in sin, both in religious and civil fellowship and familiarity, as the jews did withdraw both from the Heathens, and Publicans in both. joh. 4. 9 Act. 10. 3. & 31. 28. Luk. 15. 2. & 15. 10. 11. And this very phrase Paul most clearly expounds, when he directs the Church, 1 Cor. 5. 11. not to be commingled with obstinate offenders, nor to eat with them: this ever provided, that no excommunication or other act in religion whatsoever, may dissolve either civil, or natural society. The next Reason is drawn from verse 18. where Christ ratifying VIII. in the hands of his Church this his power, speaks in express terms of binding, and losing, not only in earth, but in heaven also: which words, me thinks, alone should satisfy the conscience of any godly minded man, (yea and stop the mouth of the most shameless) that Christ speaks of sin, and sin only. Yet is Mr B. neither satisfied, nor silent, but replies, that binding, and losing in this place is not properly, or only to be understood of Christ's Ministers: but is allowed to private persons, and for this, pag. 223 he brings sundry reasons▪ Consider, Reader, this severe censurer of Mr Smiths' unstableness: Mr B. in his former book, pag. 95. will have this power of binding, and losing spoken of in this place to be in the officers of the Ch●, two or three, and at no hand in private persons: and for this there he brings sundry reasons: in this his next book, this power is ●l●t●ed to two or three private persons, and must not be drawn to the ministery only, and for this, he brings as many reasons. Observe further, the very sum of Mr B. answer is, that Christ speaks not here of binding, and losing in the office of ministery. So we affirm, & that by two or three having this power cannot be meant two or three Ministers, considered severally from the body, which alone are not the Church for any public administration, but the officers of the Church: but by two or three are meant the meanest communion or society of saints whether with officers, or without officers. And is this a sufficient answering of an adversary to bring sundry reasons to prove the very thing, which he affirms? Add to all these, that where the injuries offered to Christ's disciples, IX. and such as would respect his direction, were usually for the profession of Christ, it had been a most idle course to have complained either to the jewish Synedrion, or Romish Magistracy, which would have added injury to injury. Lastly, where Christ, v. 23. in his answer to Peter's question, X. makes the protasis or first part of his comparison the kingdom of heaven which is the Church he shows plainly, that all the while he hath spoken of Church affairs, and the carrying of them. And thus much to prove that the Lord jesus the King of his Church hath left in this 18. of Math▪ a rule, & order for the punishment of offenders in it. But this tedious matter is not yet ended. For Mr B. marshals in eight fresh reasons, to force all the reformed Churches in the world with us, to give over this hold of Mat. 18. pag. 224. 225. 226. of this his last book: the best is they are of no great strength. The first is a bare affirmation that the former exposition by me confuted is true. His second Reason is because Christ hath erected no government in his Church; (for why he should add by public doctrine I see not, except he would insinuate, that Christ taught this point privately, and in a corner) but for this brings he no one scripture or reason: as if his bare word were enough to 'stablish an Idol King in his Church, without officers, or laws. Where notwithstanding in his former book, pag 90. 91. 92. 93. he proves by many scriptures that Christ hath given officers for the government of his Church: which no man denies, but himself. In the third place he affirms, that Christ by the Church means not the jewish Synedrion, wherein I assent unto his saying, for reason brings he none. Touching the nature of the Church's government (which he gropes at in the fourth place) I have spoken else where. The 5. Reason followeth, which comprehends under it many petty Reasons, and amongst other the 6, 7, and 8 in order: which save for the show in the margin of 8. distinct numbered Reasons, might well enough have been spared. The sum is that this 18. of Mat. is no perfect rule of discipline: the reasons are because neither all sorts of sins are here brought in, nor all the parts of discipline here comprehended. And how do these things appear? First because a man is here to proceed only for trespasses, or as it is better turned for offences, against himself, but not for sin against God, against the Magistrate, or against an other. But here you should have remembered Mr B. that * 1 joh. ●. 4. sin, being the transgression of the law, is only against God, to speak properly, and therefore David, notwithstanding his defiling of Bath sheba, and murdering of Vrijah confesseth that he had “ Ps. 51. 6. sinned against God only. But as the same transgression is so committed, as man scandalizeth, or takes offence at it▪ so it is a sin against him: whether the deed done respect God or man, yea man or beast, public or private person, a man's self, or others in the object: and so he may forgive it after the order prescribed by Christ. And where by way of exception you demand how one man can remit trespasses done against an other? it is true it cannot be, if by trespasses be meant personal injuries: but considering the same trespasses, as they are sins against God, at which a brother takes offence, so the brother offended may forgive them upon the offender's repentance. And ask how men can forgive rebellion against God, you seem to have forgotten yourself: for in the very leaf next before going, you both grant and prove that not only Ministers by virtue of their office, but private persons also may bind and loose sins. The thing itself you grant, and for the manner of it, it is as they save, by manifesting, and making known outwardly salvation, and the forgiveness of sins. To your third objection concerning the keeping secret of public crimes against the Magistrate upon the offender's repentance, you answer yourself, for if they be public, or of public nature, they may not be kept secret, neither are they capable of the order of secret dealing in them. And here falls into consideration your seventh Reason, which is, that if discipline be grounded upon Mat. 18. then the Church must judge in civil affairs, and enter upon the bounds of the Magistrate. And are you ignorant Mr B. that civil actions, as they draw scandalous sin, with them, may be censured ecclesiastically, as may also religious actions be punished civilly by the Magistrate, which is the preserver of both tables, & so to punish all breaches of both, specially such as draw with them the violation of the positive laws of kingdoms, or disturbance of common peace? Take your own instance of murder. The Magistrate is to punish it civilly in all his subjects, whether the parties repent or no; the Church is to censure it ecclesiastically in her members, yea though the Magistrate pardon or pass by it, except the parties delinquent repent, for than they are to be forgiven. And what usurpation is here upon the Magistracy? you to suppress God's ordinance do flatter the Magistrate, and accuse the innocent. Next you except, that this of Mat. is a rule for sins private, and more secret, but not for public and open sin. You might as well say that the pattern of prayer prescribed by Christ, Mat. 6. is not perfect, nor a rule for private prayer, or for things concerning ourselves only, because it teacheth us to say, Our father, & forgive us our sins. But who knows not, that generals include their specialties under them? The Lord jesus in teaching his disciples to say, forgive us our sins jointly, teacheth them in the same place to ask forgiveness either of their own sins, or the sins of others severally, as occasion serves: so in teaching here all the degrees of admonition jointly, he implies also the dealing in any one of them severally, if there be occasion. And this exposition of Mr B. can I not fitlyer resemble then to the practice of some silly pursuivant, that, being sent to attach some traitor, or other malefactor dwelling in Barwick, and so to bring him to the Court, if he should meet the party by the way, would refuse to meddle with him, and would say, that he was sent to Barw: to fetch him, and would either bring him from thence, or would let him alone. And it seems, if Mr B. might construe his commmission, he would so advise him. But would not common sense teach a man, that the nearer he met with the party he ●ought, the more labour were spared, and that he were to apprehend him where he found him? So where Christ sends his disciples to deal with sin a far off, as it were, and in the first, & utmost degree, but if it be come nearer, and be found in the 2. or 3. degree, it is to be taken where it is found. If it be secret, and yet rest betwixt the brother offending, & offended, it must there be dealt with: if it become nearer the court, and be wrought before two, or three, or more, it must there, and in that order be undertaken, the first degree is over, and that labour spared: if it be of public nature, or publicly committed, the two former degrees are past, and the labour in them spared: the sin must be dealt with accordingly. And the Church either by information from any brother or brethren, or by immediate notice taken, may convent or call for the offender, that he which sinned publicly, may publicly be rebuled. And this may serve for answer to the 8. and last exception. Now for allowing of the plaintiff to seek further remedy, & of the referring of the party obstinate unto him, which is the sum of the sixth Arg: as also of these terms, let him be to thee as an heathen and publican, which is an other exception, together with that consideration, that the party offended is the principal in all the degrees of proceeding, I have formerly spoken in the exposition of the words, to which the reader is to look back for answer, if such idle conjecture give any cause of doubt to any. One only blow more is to be warded, by which Mr B. would disable this 18. of Math. from being any rule of discipline, and that is, because it provides not for suspension, we grant it doth not: and you yourself half grant, that no such thing is to be found in the new testament. And what reason have you, or any other man to put us to prove your corruptions and devises, which you know we neither practice, nor allow of? These things thus ended, and the received exposition of Math. 18. confirmed, viz: that Christ in it prescribes a rule of discipline in the Church, I come to your reason's Mr B. in your first book by which you would prove that this Church is the chief governors. The first whereof is, that Christ could not be understood either then, Mr. B. or now, except he spoke as the practice was then, or took some order afterward, and so you go about to prove unto us, that the chief governors only had authority to excommunicate, both in the synagogues and in the Church of Corinth. To this I answer sundry things. First it follows not, that Answ. Christ was not then, or cannot now be understood, except he spoke with some such reference as you note. The words are so plain, the order so equal, the state of the Church under the new testament (which is not, as before, national, but a particular assembly) so capable of such an ordinance, as that laying aside prejudice, and politic respects, there can be nothing more plainly spoken or more easily understood. 2. It doth no way prejudice the exposition we give, though the disciples for the present understood it not: they understood little, no not touching the death and resurrection of Christ, or nature of his kingdom when they were at the first taught them, till either by their own experience, or by the extraordinary gift of the Holy Ghost, or some other means, the things formerly taught them were brought to their remembrance. Mat. 16. 21. 22. & 20. 20. 21. Mark. 16. 14. Luk. 24. 20. 21. 22— 25. 26. 44. And it is expressly affirmed, Act. 1. 3. that the Lord jesus did the 40. days before his ascension instruct them in such things as concerned the kingdom of God, which is the Church. The next thing to be considered is your proofs from scripture, that the power of excommunication was in the chief governors. But the places prove no such thing. joh. 9 22. and 12. 42. & 16. ●▪ do only prove an agreement amongst the jews, that such as confessed Christ should be dissynagogued: but that this authority was only in the hands of the chief governors, cannot be thence collected. I know there was at jerusalem a representative Church for the whole nation, of which we shall speak hereafter, but that there was such a Church representative in every synagogue, furnished with such power can never be concluded from these scriptures. They rather in deed prove the contrary. It is said joh. 9 22. that the jews had ordained, that such as confessed Christ, should be dissynagogued: which words do rather interest the people in the business then otherwise. If you think, that because there is mention made of † vers. 13. 15. 16. & Ch. 12. 42. the Pharisees, the officers only are meant, you are deceived. For Pharisaism amongst the jews was not an office, but a sect. There were no other lawful officers ecclesiastical amongst them, but “ Lev. 8. Num. 3. 12. 13. & 8. 14. 16. 17. the Levites whom the Lord took from among the children of Israel in stead of the first borne for his service: but many of the Pharisees, were of other tribes. Phil. 3. 5. Besides, I see no sufficient reason to persuade me, that this casting out of the synagogue was any ecclesiastical censure, but rather a violent rejection or extrusion out of the place: as nothing was more common than such tumultuous outrages in those days. And the very same word that john useth, ch. 9 ver. 35. Luke useth ch. 4. 28. 29. for the violent extrusion of Christ himself by the jews, upon the like occasion, both out of the synagogue, and city. The same also doth john himself use, ch. 2. 15. speaking of Christ's casting 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the money changers out of the temple. And yet neither the NAZARITES excommunicate CHRIST, nor CHRIST the mony-chaungers. But if there were amongst the jews at that time any such distinct ordinance of excommunication ecclesiastical, it was a jewish devise, (I am persuaded) and without ground of the scriptures: and that for these causes. First every blasphemer, or worshipper of unknown Gods I. was by the law of Moses to die the death without redemption, that so evil might be put from Israel, Exod. 22. 20. Lev. 24. 16. Deut. 13. 6. 7. 8. 9— 12. 13. 14. 15. And so the jews reputing this blind man such a one, were to put him to death: but being deprived of this power by the romans, through the just judgement of God for their sins, they devised this other course of dissynagogueing, or excommunicating offenders by them so deemed. II. Secondly the several synagogues were not distinct Churches, but members of that one national Church, which was both representatively, and originally at jerusalem: neither could any of them excommunicate out of the temple, which was a higher communion than theirs: and so it is very probable that Christ found this blind man afterwards in the temple, joh. 9 38. compared with 10. 22. into which (had he been ecclesiastically excommunicated) he might not have entered: neither hangs it together, that any rejected in the communion of the synagogue, might be received in the communion of the temple. III. 3. The Lord did choose the whole nation of the jews to be his peculiar people, and took all and every one of them into covenant with himself, gave them the Land of Canaan for an inheritance, as a type of the kingdom of heaven, erected a policy over them, civil, & ecclesiastical, in the judicial & ceremonial law, called the old testament, making the same persons & all of them, though in diverse respects the Church, & the common wealth, whereupon the Church is also called the common wealth of Israel. Exod. 19 5. 6. Lev. 20. 24. 26. Deut. 4. 6. 7. & 29. 2. 10. 11. 12. jos. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. Rom. 9 4 Ephe. 2. 12. Hence it followeth, that except a man might enjoy one type of the kingdom of heaven, as was the Land of Canaan, & not an other, as was the temple, or tabernacle, Heb. 9 24. except he might be under one part of the old testament, or covenant of God, namely the judicial law for the common wealth, and not under an other part of it, the ceremonial law for the Church, it cannot be that any such ordinance as excommunication could be used lawfully in the jewish Church. Yet do I not deny but that the lepers & other persons legally unclean were for a time debarred from the communion of the Church, and from all the sacrifices, and services thereof, but this inhibition say I, was no way in the nature of an excommunication. For first it was for ceremonial uncleanness, issues, leprosy, and the like, which were not sins, but punishments of sins at the most. 2. It did not only exclude men from the communion of the Church, but of the common wealth also, and the affairs thereof. 3. It did not agree in the end with excommunication. The end of excommunication is the repentance of the party excommunicated, 1 Cor. 5. 5. but the person legally unclean, whether he repented, or no, was to bear his shame till the date of his time were out, yea to his dying day, if his disease continued so long. Lev. 12. & 13. & 14. Num. 5. 2. 3. 4. & 12. 10. 14. 2 Chron. 26. 19 20. 21. A type I confess it was of excommunication, as legal pollution was of moral sin: whence I also conclude that the type, and thing typed outwardly could not both stand together. But here it will be demanded of me, did not the Lord require in the jewish Church true, moral, and spiritual holiness also? God forbid I should run upon that desperate rock of Anabaptistry. The Levit. 11. 44. 1 Pet. 1. 15. 16. Lord was holy then as now, and so would have his people be then holy, as now. Yea so jealous was the Lord over his people that he took order then as well as now, that no sin should be suffered unreformed, no obstinate sinner vncut off. Some sins were of that nature, as he that committed them was by the law to die the death without pardon, or partiality, & so to be cut off from the Lords people. Lev. 20. And when other sins not of that nature were committed, whether of ignorance, or otherwise, the party offending was to be told, and admonished of his offence, and so to manifest his repentance by the confefs●on of his sin, and profession of his faith in the mediator, by offering his appointed sacrifice, and so his sin was forgiven him. Lev. 4. 13. 14. 15.— 20. 21 23— 26. 27. 28. 35. & 5. 1. 3. 4. 5. 6.— 10. & 19 17. Num. 5. 6. 7. But now if there were with the least sin joined obstinacy, or presumption, the party so sinning was to be cut off from his people, Num. 15. 30. 31. 32. 34. 36. Deut. 17. 12. and for this cause the jews were so oft admonished to * Lev. 20. 14. Deut. 17. 12. & 19 19 destroy the workers of wickedness, that there should be no wickedness amongst them, that they should take away evil from Israel, and from forth of the midst of them. And upon this ground doth David as the chief Magistrate, whom this business chiefly concerned, vow his service unto God in this kind, and that he would even * Psal. 101. ●. betimes destroy all the wicked of the land, that he might cut off the workers of iniquity from the city of the Lord: though he afterwards failed in the execution of this duty. And to the very same end did “ 1 Chron. 15. 12. 13. 14. 15. Asa the King with all the people enter a covenant of oath, to seek the Lord God of their fathers, with all their heart, and with all their soul: and that whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be slain, whether be were small or great, man or woman. To end this point, upon which I have insisted something the longer for sundry purposes in their place to be manifested: as the Lord usually conveyed spiritual both blessings, and curses unto the jews under those which were bodily, so here was the spiritual judgement of excommunication comprehended under this bodily judgement of death, by which the party delinquent was wholly cut off visibly from the Lord's covenant, and people. That which you add of Cloes complaint made to the chief governor the Apostle, is true, but misapplied. You make an erroneous collection from it out of your own lamentable experience. Because your Church of Worxsop can reform no abuse within itself, but must complain to your Lord's grace of York▪ or his substitute, therefore you imagine the Church of Corinth to have been in the same bondage, wherein you are: and Cloe to have complained to Paul's court. But it is plain Mr B. to them that do not shut their eyes, and harden their hearts against the truth: that the Church of Corinth was planted in the liberty of the gospel, and had this power of Christ to reform abuses, and to excommunicate offenders, without sending to Paul from one part of the world to an other, and that the Corinthians Ch. 5. are reproved for failing in this duty. And had Mr B. but taken this course in his writing, that two of his leaves had hung together, he might have spared this objection, considering what he writ, pag. 92. that the same persons have the power to preach, administer the sacraments, and excommunicate: for that he means by government. Now he cannot be ignorant, that both the power, and practise of preaching, & administering the sacraments were in the Church of Corinth in Paul's absence. 1 Cor. 11. 20. & 14. 1. etc. And so by your own grant the Church of Corinth had power to excommunicate though Paul were absent. Whereupon I also infer it was their sin not to use it. Now for the practice of Cloes family, we know Paul was an Apostle, and general Officer, and so entitled to the affairs in all the Churches in the world: whereupon Cloe complained unto him of such abuses in the Church as were both of public nature, and which the Church would not reform: otherwise it had been both slander, and solly to have complained. And what corn doth this wind shake? Do we make it unlawful for any member to inform the officers of public enormities in the Church, that they according to their places might see reformation of them? Yea if the Pastor, or other principal Officer of the Church were absent necessarily, we doubt not but it were the duty of any brother, or brethren in the like case, to entreat their help for the direction, reproof, and reformation of the Church, for any public enormities there done, or suffered: who might also judge, and condemn the same themselves, and for their parts, exhorting, and directing the whole Church in their public meeting to do the like as Paul did. Your three next Arguments to prove that tell the Church, is tell the Officers, are idle descants upon the forms, and phrases of speech scraped together to fill your book with. First you affirm that Christ having spoken in the third Mr. B. person tell the Church when he comes to ratify the authority to be committed to his Apostles, turns his speech to the 2. person, not saying, what it, but what you shall bind, and loose, etc. In so saying you give the cause, though you presently eat up Answ. your own grant. For you affirm, that by the Church▪ ver. 17. is meant the whole body, of which Christ speaks in the third person: and what say we more? But where you add that the authority is not given till the 18. vers. and that then Christ turns his speech to his Apostles, it is your own devised gloss. For first it is evident, that Christ establisheth the power of binding, and losing in the hands of the Church, speaking in the 3. person, v. 17. & that so firmly, as what brother soever refuseth to hear her voice is to be expelled from all religious communion. Unto this the 18. v. is added partly for explanation, and partly for confirmation. For where as the party admonished might say with himself, well, if the Church disclaim me, I shall disclaim it, if it condemn me, I shall condemn it again, the Lord doth here back the Church's censures for her encouragement, and for the terror of the refractory, despising her voice, and that under a contestation, that what she binds, and looseth upon earth, (namely after his will) he also will bind, and lose in heaven. And for the change of persons in the 17. and 18, verses, it is merely grammatical, and not natural. It is common with the Holy Ghost, sometimes for elegancy, sometimes for explication, sometimes for further enforcement of the same thing, to, and upon the same persons, thus to vary the phrase of speech in the first, second, or third person grammatically, as the reader may take a taste in these particulars. Psal. 75. 1. Is. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. etc. Math. 5. 10. 11. 12. etc. and in this very Chapt. v. 7. 8. Rom. 6. 14. 15. 16. & 8. 4. 5. 12. 13. etc. Your 3. Reason, that, because Christ speaks of a few, two, or three Mr. B. gathered together, therefore he means the officers of the Church, and not all the body, is of no force, if the body consist but of two, or three, as Answ. it comes to pass, where Churches are raised in persecution, as the most true Churches are. Yet if Christ do speak of two or three officers of a Church, gathered together in his name, he speaks against you, where all the power of the keys over many 1000 Churches are in the hands of two Arch-Prelates, and from them delegated and derived to their several underlings. But the truth is, that gracious promise, which Christ here lays down, for the comfort of all his saints, you do engross into the hands of a few Elders. You might aswell affirm, that only two or three officers gathered together, have a promise to be heard in their prayers, and not a communion of two or three brethren, for Christ, v. 19 20. speaks principally, and expressly of prayer, though with reference to the binding, and losing of sin, which (as all other ordinances) are sanctified by prayer. The very scope of the place, and reason of the speech is this. The Lord jesus had v: 18. enfranchised the Church, with a most excellent, and honourable privilege: now the disciples did already see with their own eyes, and were more fully taught by their Master, that the Church should arise from small, and base beginnings, and that it was also, by reason of persecution, subject to great dissipation. Math. 7. 14. & 10. 17. 18. 22. 23. & 13. 31. 32. lest therefore their hearts should be discouraged, and they, or others, driven into suspicion, that the Lord would any way neglect them, or his promise towards them for their paucity, and meanness, he most graciously prevents, and frees them from that jealousy, & tells them and all others, for their comfort, that though the Church, or assembly consist but of two or three (as such beginnings the true Church of God had and have, (though your English Church begun with a kingdom in a day) Act. 16. 14. 15. & 17. 34. & 19 7. yet that should no way diminish their power, or prejudice the accomplishment of his promise. And the reason hath been formerly rendered, because this power for binding, & losing, being given to the faith of Peter, depends not upon the order of office, multitude of people, or dignity of person, but merely upon the word of God. And hence is it that Christ thus graciously descends even to two or three, wheresoever assembled in his name, yea though it be in a Cave, or Den of the earth: of which most gracious and necessary privilege you would bereave them. Now in your 4. Reason out of v. 19, you do most ignorantly err in the grammatical construction: for you make a change of the person again, where there is no change at all. Christ speaks only in the third person, as the original makes it plain, though the English tongue do not so distinctly manifest it to an ignorant man. Christ saith not, whatsoever you two shall agree of, shallbe given to them, that is to the Church, but whatsoever two of you shall agree of, or consent in, they two that so agree shall obtain it of God. Which words (Mr B.) you do most unsufferably pervert, to the seducing of the ignorant: as if Christ had said, if two, or three of you officers, or you two or three officers, shall agree together of a thing, whatsoever they, that is the Church shall desire, namely of the Officers (for so you expound the words) it shallbe given them. where it is most evident that they which are to agree upon the thing, they are to ask it, and that of God, who will give it them. And where the scripture saith, that the brother offended (speaking indefinitely of any brother, and so of the Officers themselves) must complain to the Church, M B. on the contrary (as if he would even beard the Lord jesus) tells us the Church must complain to the Officers. Your 5. Reason follows with many little ones in the womb of it, which you bring forth in order, to prove, that Christ speaks here figuratively, and that by the Church he means the governors. The first is. It agrees with the practice of the jewish Church from whence Mr B. it is held, that the manner of governing in the Church is fetched. And is this the necessary proof you speak of? whatsoever is so Answ. held, is so in truth. And yet in your second book, as hath been showed, you bring in sundry men holding contrary things, as if contraries could be true. Well, I confess it is so held, and that by many, with whom I would gladly consent, if the scriptures taught me not to hold otherwise. It had been good here the author had showed us, what the government of the jewish Church was, and not thus sleightily to have passed over things of this moment. For the purpose in hand thus much. The Church of the jews was a national Church, † Exod. 19 5. 6. Lev. 20. 24. 26. Deut. 29. 10. 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. the Lord separating unto himself the whole nation, from all other nations, to be his people, and that he might be their God. And as one of the Lords ordinances suits with an other, and depends upon an other, so from this national Church doth necessarily arise a representative Church. For where communion together in the holy things of God is an act, and operation of the Church, for the mutual edification of the parts, and that it was impossible, that the whole body of a nation should in the entire, simple, proper, or personal parts, & members communicate together, the Lord so ordered and disposed, that that communion should be had, and exercised after a manner, and in a sort, and that was by way of representation. And to this end the Lord made choice of one special place in the land, which he gave his people to possess, at the first alterable, but afterwards constant, and unchangeable, where he would have his tabernacle pitched, and his temple built, where he would put his name, and dwell, and which he would honour above all places, with his glory and presence. There was also one only tabernacle or temple, one high Priest, one altar, unto which the whole national Church had reference, † Deut. 12. 5. 6. 7. thither must they bring all their sacrifices, tithes and offerings, “ Deut. 17. 8. 9 10. 11. 12. thither were causes jos. 18. 1. 1 King. 8. 10. 29. hard, and difficult to be brought, that the people might be showed the sentence of judgement, informed, and taught the law, by the Priests of the Levites. * Exod. 29. 38. 39 4●. 43. 45. There was the daily sacrifice offered for the whole national Church, morning and evening continually, there the Lord appointed with the children of Israel, sanctifying the place with his glory, binding himself by his promise to dwell amongst them, and to be their God. There was 2 Chro. 19 8. ●. 10. 11. “ Exo. 28. 9 10. 11. 12 15. 16. 17. 18. 19 2●. 29. 30. the high Priest to carry graven upon two onyx stones, as the stones of remembrance of the children of Israel, put upon the shoulders of the Ephod, the names of the children of Israel according to their tribes, for a remembrance: and again, the names of the children of Israel, according to their twelve tribes i● twelve stones set upon the breast plate of judgement upon his heart, for a remembrance continually before the Lord. There was also † Exo. 25. 30. Lev. 24 5. 6. 7. 8. set upon the pure table of Shittim wood in the tabernacle, twelve loaves of show bread continually before the Lord, according to the twelve tribes of Israel for a remembrance. Now all these were ordinances representative, in a Church representative: and other Church representative amongst the jews, I neither know, not acknowledge. And the ground of this representation was the necessary absence of the people represented. Necessary, I call it, whether we respect the ordinance of God inhibiting the people's entrance into the place, where the most of these representations were made, or whether we respect the impossibility of the whole nations ordinary assembling, and communicating together. And hereupon it comes to pass, that all other Churches since, so framed, and of such quality, as that they cannot ordinarily assemble together, & keep communion, have also as their images, or shadows, their Churches representative. The catholic visible Ch: of Rome hath her visible Ch: representative, the Pope's Consistory, or College of Cardinals, or the general Council gathered by his authority. The national Church of Engl:, hath her national Church representative, the Convocation house: as have also the Provincial and Diocesan Churches their representations, the Archbishops, & Bishop's Consistories. But as the bodies of these Churches are monstrous devises of men's brains, (there being no other Churches under the new testament but particular assemblies) so are their shadows, (the Church's representative) mere devises of devises. And to apply this nearer the purpose. Since the Church now consisteth not of one nation severed from all other nations, but of particular assemblies of faithful people, separated from all other assemblies, which like so many distinct † Act ●0. 28. 1 Pet. 5 2. 3. 1 Cor. ●. 4. & 11. 17. 20. & 14. 23. flocks, do ordinarily heard together, and so communicate in the word, prayer, sacraments, & censures, and that where the Church grew sometimes greater by the sudden, and extraordinary conversion of more than could well so assemble, than was there presently a dispersion of the former and a multiplication of more particular assemblies. Act. 2. 41. 42. & 8. 4. 5. 6. & 9 31. & 14. 23. 27. & 15. 22. 30. Rev. 1. 4. 11. this races the foundation of all representative Churches, as either politic devises, or at the best, preposterous imitations of the jewish Church, and polity. For (as I have formerly said, and common sense teacheth it) the foundation of representation is the necessary absence of that which is represented, whether person, or thing. And so since there is no necessity, that the body of a particular Church should be absent, but on the contrary a necessity, that the same be present, at and in all the public administrations, and actions of communion in the Churches holy things, we do therefore disclaim as superfluous, and feigned, all representative Churches whatsoever. Secondly if the outward form of Church government now be fetched from the jewish Church, then as in that representative Ch: there was an high Priest set over the rest, in whose person, and administration, the representation of the whole Church was most eminent, so must there now be also in this representative Church one officer over the rest, and as it were their high Priest. And so the catholic representative Church of Rome hath an universal Bishop the Pope over it: the national, Provincial, and Diocesan, Churches representative, national, Provincial, and Diocesan Bishops over them. And so in all equity should the Synods, and Praesbyteries, accounting themselves properly Churches, or bodies Ecclesiastical, have their Officers over them: and so there should always be one, or more Ministers over the Church of Ministers, and whose charge these Synods and Presbyteries should be, to be fed by them. And the truth is, this reason fetched from the jewish Church, as it far better fits the prelates in England, than the Consistorians, so fits it the Papists better then either of them both: for there is one Bishop over the catholic visible Church (as they speak) as there was one high Priest over the whole visible Ch: then. Add unto this, that if the representative Church at jerusalem be a pattern for a representative Church unto us, then as there not only hard causes were opened, & declared according to the law, but also the sacrifices offered, and most solemn services performed day, by day, without the presence of the body of the Church, so now in this our representative Church consisting of the officers only, there must be not only the use of the keys for admonition, and excommunication, but there must also be the preaching of the word, and ministering of the sacraments, (which are our most solemn services) whether the people be present or no. And to imagine a power of Christ in the Church of the officers for the use of one solemn ordinance out of the communion of the body, & not for an other, hath no ground from the jewish Church. Lastly, to fetch the form of government for the Church now from the jewish Church, were to revive † Heb. 8. 13 the old testament, which so long since, is abrogated, and disannulled. For to speak properly the old testament is nothing but that external policy instituted by Moses in the judicial & ceremonial law, for the dispensation of the typical kingdom and priesthood of Christ, shadowed out by that of “ Heb. 5. & 6. Melchisedeck King and Priest: repraesented by the administrations of Moses, and Aaron: and after continued in the * Num. 18 priesthood of the Levites, & † 2 Chron. 13. 5. kingdom of David & his sons, till Christ, in the dispensation of those worldly, and carnal ordinances. Now as the judicials, (which were for the government of the Congregation civilly) are dead, and do not bind any civil polity, save as they were of common equity: so are the ceremonials, (which were for the Ch: polity) deadly: and may not be revived by any Church, save as any of them have new life given by Christ. For though we now be made “ Eph. 2. 12. and 3. 6. citizens of the common wealth of Israel, and one body with them, yet is that in respect of * Gen. 17. 7. Gal. 3. 17. the everlasting covenant confirmed of God with Abraham through Christ. (I willbe thy God, and the God of thy seed) four hundred and thirty years before the law was given, or the polity and government of the lewish, either church, or common wealth, in it established: and as we are the sons, and daughters of Abraham by faith, but no way in respect of those jewish ordinances in in the old testament, or the order of dispensing them. And yet if it were granted which you would have, that the Church government now is to be patterned by the government of the jewish church, than it would nothing avail you for the purpose in hand. For the church officers the Priests, and Levites unto whom † Numb. 3. 67. the charge of the whole Congregation, for the service of the tabernacle did appertain, had no authority by the order of their office to inflict any censure spiritually upon the people, as had the civil Magistrates to punish them bodily. The Priests and Levites were only to interpret the law, and in cases extraordinarily difficult, to find out the estate of the person, or thing, and to show what in such a case the law required: and if you will say, they gave judgement it was none otherwise, then as a Physician gives ●●dgement of the body, or state of his patient by his faculty, or skill in his art: but to sit upon them formally in judgement, & ecclesiastically to punish them, that they might not do: neither are they called in the scriptures “ Deut. 17 9 2 Chron. 1●. 5. 6. judges, as the civil Magistrates are. Yea the scriptures do make a plain difference where the civil Elders are to * Ex. 18. 13. Ruth. 4. 2. sit, and judge the people, but the † Numb. 16 9 2. 2 Chron. 35. 3. Priests to stand before the Congregation, and to minister unto them. Now before we pass over this business in hand, I deem it not amiss upon this occasion, to observe a few things by way of answer to a scripture usually brought out for the foundation of these representative churches and their power, and especially for these national, and Provincial Synods, & the like. And the scripture is, Act. 15. 1. There was no synod, or assembly of the Officers of diverse Churches, but only certain messengers sent from the church of Antiochia, to the Church of jerusalem about the controversy there specified. 2. Neither the Church of Antioch which sent the messengers, nor the church at jerusalem whether they were sent, was a representative church, consisting of Officers, much less of chief officers only. For first it is said, ver. 1. 2. that the brethren of Antiochia, which Ch. 14. 17. are called the church, and v. 28. the disciples, and in this chapt. v. 3. the church, and v. 23. the brethren sent their messengers with Paul and Barnabas to jerusalem: and it will most evidently appear by whom the message was sent, if we consider to whom the answer was returned. ver. 30. where the messengers did not deliver the Epistle till they had assembled the multitude. And 2. it is apparent that at jerusalem, not only the chief officers the Apostles, yea and inferior officers the Elders also, met together about it, and sent answer, but the brethren with them. v. 4. 12. 22. And these scriptures alone in this chapt. are sufficient to challenge the liberty of the brethren in the discussing of public controversies out of the hands of all officers whatsoever. 3. Paul and Barnabas, went not to jerusalem either for authority, or direction; for being Apostles, they had both equal immediate authority from Christ, and equal infallible direction from the holy Ghost, with the rest of the Apostles. Only they went for countenance of the truth in respect of men, and for the stopping the mouths of such deceivers as pretended they were sent by the Apostles. v. 24. 4. Their decrees were absolutely Apostolical, and divine scripture by infallible direction from the holy Ghost, and so imposed upon all other Churches of the Gentiles, though they had ●o delegates there, ver. 23. 28. Ch. 16. 4. But it willbe said, may not the officers of one, or many Churches meet together to discuss & consider of matters for the good of the Church, or Churches, and so be called a Church, Synod, or the like? I deny it not, so they infringe no order of Christ, or liberty of the brethren, they may so do, and so be called in a sense: but the question now is about such a Church, as is gathered for the public administration of admonition, excommunication, & other the like ordinances of Christ, which Mr B. in his first book grants “ pag. 92. must be done with the knowledge of the body of the Church, & and in the open assembly. And here falls into handling certain borrowed stuff † pag. 178. in Mr B. 2. book about this matter. As first, that Paul called the Elders of Ephesus, and conferred with them Mr B. without the people, Act. 20. 27. which who denies, but they which set up a Lord Bishop to rule alone without advising with either Answer. the inferior Ministers, or people. But that, which he adds in the next place, hath almost as many errors, as words in it, and that is, that the Elders sat in a Consistory, with james their Bishop at jerusalem, without the people, and did decree a matter, without ask their voice. Act. 21. 18. First you err in calling it a Consistory, or juditiall Court, for the justification of your own: where it was only an occasional meeting for advise. 2. in making james a Bishop whom Christ had made an Apostle. The Elders were Bishops, Act. 20. 17. 28. Phil. 1. 1. Tit. 1. ●. 7. And so if you would have held any proportion you should have made james an Archbishop. 3. that you make him their Bishop, where Bishops, or Overseers, are set over the flock, not over the Ministers, Act. 20. 28. 4. And most ignorantly, where you will have james & the Elders to make a decree for Paul, as if the Elders had authority over the Apostles (for that is the drift of your argument) or one Apostle over an other: or as if Paul were subject to Consistorian decrees. It was only a matter of advice, that passed amongst them, as all men may see. another observation Mr B. hath in this place, as idle as the rest: and that is, that the Elders are superior unto the people, because they are set before them, Act. 15. 22. 23. where if the bold and inconsiderate man had but read the 4. verse of the same Chapt: he should have seen the people set before the Officers: the very same alteration appears ver. 2. & 12. so if his argument was of force, two contraries might be true, which is a repugnancy in nature. Yet deny we not but the officers are above the Church, in respect of the word, and doctrine they minister, and teach: but we deny the order of Elders to be superior to the order of saints, since it is not an order of mastership, but of service. But I will from this place, Mr B. (if I be not much deceived) take a better argument to prove the contrary to that you say, namely, that the Church is an order superior unto the officers. And the reason is, because the Churches have authority to send the officers, as their messengers, v. 2. 3. 22. 32. Now they that send are ever in that respect, superior unto them that are sent. That which you add in the last place, to wit, that the Apostles & Elders did acquaint the people with the matter, who consented, but had no authority to make the authority of the Apostles, & Elders nothing, is drawn out of the same cask with the former. In which speech, there is imperfection, contradiction, & ignorance. Imperfection, where you give the people no further liberty then to consent to the matter, being made acquainted with it. For in that it is said, ver: 12. that the multitude kept silence when they had heard james speak truly, & sufficiently, and that they held their peace, v: 13. when they heard Paul and Barnabas speak, it shows they had also liberty of speaking in the matter, had they seen cause. Contradictions you speak, in affirming the people were to consent to the Elders, & yet in denying they could prejudice their power, & authority. For howsoever this be true for the Apostles, which were infallibly, and immediately directed by the H. Ghost in their determinations, unto which all were bound absolutely to condescend, as are all the saints at the last day to the judgement to be passed by Christ upon the reprobate, yet is it not so for the Elders ordinary, then, or now, which may err, and be deceived. And so where there is liberty of consenting conditionally, and if men see cause, there is also liberty of dissenting, upon the contrary occasion: and so this dissent of the body must either hinder the action, or else it is a mere mockery. Ignorance it is, in the last place to make equal the authority of the Apostles, and Elders in this decree. For the decree was merely Apostolical (to speak properly) and framed by infallible direction of the Holy Ghost, (which the Elders in themselves considered had not) as appeareth, ver. 28. and was, and is, in the right end, and equity of it, a part of the canonical scriptures, in penning whereof the Elders had no hand: and so is imposed upon the Churches of the Gentiles every where, ver. 23. with whom the Elders of jerusalem had nothing to do, but only the Apostles, which were general men: so that neither brethren, nor Elders did more than consent to the decree itself, & that necessarily, as unto a divine oracle. These things thus ended, I return to the Arguments in Mr Ber. first book to prove by the Ch: to be meant the chief Officers. The second and third whereof being but needles boasts of his former doings, I pass over. The 4: is, for order sake and to prevent confusion, for that which is all Mr B. men's, is no m●ns: whereupon ariseth great carelessness in seeing unto such things, as are all men's in public: and by it pride, yea thereupon contention ensueth. We do stand for the order of Christ against the confusion of Ans. Antichrist in Babylon, which is uncapable of all right order: as we also enjoy the right disposition of things, and persons in their places, which is order. And if you call it confusion in an assembly, wherein all have equal power, and voice in the determining of things, some one or few going before the rest in guiding, and directing them, you do (though you consider it not) strike through our sides, the highest and honourablest court or assembly in the whole land, and which is the rule and fountain of all the rest, and that is, the court of Parliament, where all things pass by voices, all, or the most: the prolocutor being only chosen to propound, and moderate actions: which is also the order in general councils, and (if I be not deceived) in your representative Church of Engl▪ your Convocation house. Which order also is observed for the main determinations to be made in the privileged cities & corporations in the kingdom. And what greater confusion is there like to be in the determining of other Church affairs by voices, then in the calling of ministers? the order of whose † ●●t▪ 14. 2●. and 6. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. election by the suffrages of the multitude, guided by the officers, was both established by the Apostles, & continued in the primitive Churches, many hundred years. Now the inconveniency of carelessness in all, where matters concern all, is a strange allegation. Me thinks it should make all more careful, the matters especially being of conscience, and the persons consionable, whom they concern. And I see not but you might as well say, it makes all men careless of the knowledge of God, and Christ, and of salvation, and of the scriptures, because these things concern all. And why do you not with the Papists deprive the multitude of the use of the scriptures in the mother tongue, that you the careful Clergy alone might look unto them? But what though this inconveniency do arise sometimes, through man's corruption, it should be otherwise: and we must ever consider of the nature of God's ordinances in their right use, & when men are exercised in them as they should be, and not according to grayle man's aberration, and abuse in, and of the same: and if men be sometimes careless of their duties, we must not therefore deprive them of their rights. And in this plea, Mr Bernard, me thinks you very naturally resemble the mighty oppressors in the world, which under this very pretence, do enclose all the commons of their poor neighbours: for common things (say they) are commonly neglected: & they can make one acre of ground, thus enclosed, worth two in common. But if the Lord denounce such heavy judgements against the inclosers of earthly things, Is. 5. 8. 9 what willbe the end of those spiritual engrossers and oppressors, if they repent not? And for pride and contention, as they and a thousand worse evils could not but fall out in a Church gathered as yours is, of all the profane rabble in a kingdom, so when they do arise in a true Church, there is power to void them out, and the persons with them, in whom they reign. But if the unlawfulness of a Church government might be proved by the pride, contention, & the like evils arising in it, then surely M B. you that know so well how these and other mischiefs reign in your own, should lay your hand on your mouth for shame, and be afraid to provoke any man to meddle in that matt●●. Besides it is apparent both in the scriptures, and ecclesiastical writers, that not only pride, and contention, but heresy, and almost all other evils have sprung from the officers, & governors in the Church. And surely nothing hath more in former days advanced, nor doth at this day more uphold the throne of Antichrist, than the people's discharging themselves of the care of public affairs in the Church, on the one side: and the Priests, and Prelate's a●rogating all to themselves on the other side. Lastly the word Church (you say) must be expounded figuratively Mr B. to avoid the absurd●t●s, which e●s would necessarily follow out of the text, viz: that, the whole Church must speak jointly, which were confusion contrary to 1 Cor. 14. 40. that women must meddle in Church affairs, which the Apostle forbids, ver. 34. that children must speak, which were impossible: so than it must needs ●e taken figuratively, the part for the whole, and if one part must be left out, why not an other, till the chief of the Congregation be taken, who are chosen by the rest as their mouth. Touching the exception of confusion, I desire the reader to remember Ans. what hath been formerly answered: adding further, that Mr B. herein doth not oppose us but the Apostles, and Apostolical Churches governed by them: yea the H. Ghost itself propounding their examples for our imitation. The Apostle Peter, Act. 1. 15. etc. standing up in the midst of the disciples (which were about an hundred and twenty) spoke to them about the choice of one to succeed judas: and it is said, ver. 23. that they, that is, these brethren to whom he spoke, presented two: as also that the whole multitude, Act. 6. 5. presented the seven for Deacons to the twelve Apostles, who are said, v. 2. to have called the multitude, and to have spoken unto them, & v. 6. to have prayed, and laid hands on the elect Deacons. Now might not any profane spirit take up M. B. words, and insult over the holy Ghost himself, and say: what did all the disciples that were in the place (an hundred and twenty) present joseph, and Mathias? They must needs speak in presenting these two, and spoke they jointly, or all at once? this were confusion contrary to 1 Cor. 14. 14. did the women speak? they must not meddle in Church matters, ●. 34. did children speak? it is impossible. So for Act. 6. did all the twelve Apostles speak at once, v. 2. and pray at once, v. 6. did the whole multitude speak jointly, when they presented the 7. Deacons v. 6. here were the like confusion; and beside here were women, and children in the Church also. Now let the indifferent reader judge, what M. B. hath said more against us, than any Lucian or scoffing Atheist might object against the spirit of God himself, and his holy penman the Evangelist. Yea further, by these and the like consequences, women and children are utterly excluded from the Church, as no parts of it. Luke saith, Act. 15. 22. that the whole Church sent messengers to Antiochia, and Paul 1 Cor. 14. 23. speaks of the whole Churches coming together in one to exercise themselves in prayer, prophesying, and the like parts of Church communion; but children neither could send messengers, nor pray, nor prophesy, nor the like, and women might not speak in the Church; and therefore both they must be left out of the Church, and if one part why not an other, & so till we come to the chief of the congregation, that they alone may be the Church, and all in all? & as it is just with God, that he which opposeth the truth, should oppose himself also, so doth Mr B. in this very place entangle himself in the same absurdities, wherein he would ensnare us. First he affirms the Church, Math. 1●. must be the principal of the congregation. Then Mr B. is not your congregation the true Church of Christ, for the principal of your Church, namely yourself, hath no power to excommunicate. And say not for shame, the Archdeacon or official are principals or less principals of your congregation. Again, which is the chief thing I desire may be observed, you say, these principals must be chosen by the rest of the Church, & be their mouth, and stand for the whole. And how chosen? must the whole Church speak jointly when they choose them? that were confusion. must women speak? that is contrary to the scriptures. Yet are they members of the congregation, and so are young youths, children, and servants. I add further, the Church you say, is two or three principal members. Well then, they two or three must speak to the party, how can he else hear? but for two or three to speak together, is confusion, and contrary to the commandment, 1 Cor. 14. 31. for all must speak by one & one. And by this time, I hope you are ashamed of such tristing as here you use. I do therefore answer in few words: it is not necessary that every one of the people should speak to the offender, no nor of the officers neither. If but one officer do sufficiently evince, and reprove the party, what needs more speak? The rest both Officers & people, may manifest their consent either by voice, sign, or silence, yet so as liberty be preserved for any in place, and order, to speak, either by way of addition, limitation, or dissent. And for women, they are debarred by their s●x, as from ordinary prophesying, so from any other dealing wherein they take authority over the man, 1 Cor, 14. 34. 35. 1 Tim. 2. 11. 12. yet not simply from speaking: they may make profession of faith, or confession of sin, say Amen to the Church's prayers, sing Psalms vocally, accuse a brother of sin, witness an accusation, or defend themselves being accused, yea in a case extraordinary, namely where no man will, I see not but a woman may reprove the Church, rather than suffer it to go on in apparent wickedness, and communicate with it therein. Now for children, and such as are not of years of discretion, God and nature dispenseth with them, as for not communicating in the Lord's supper now, so under the law for not offering sacrifices, from which none of years were exempted: neither is there respect of persons with God in the common duties of Christianity. And for that so oft reinforced objection of authority given to two or three, and therefore not to all, I have answered and do, that to two, or three, and yet to all, when there are but two or three in all, as usually comes to pass in the raising, and dispersing of Churches. Your 6. Argument to prove that the word Church must be taken Mr B. figuratively is first, that else the Corinthians had offended, who being all commanded did but some of them proceed against the incestuous person. 1 Cor. ● 13. 2 Cor. 2. 6. 2. that else Paul had offended, who upon the complaint of Cloes house did himself, without waiting for the Church's consent, being absent, judge and determine the matter, and s●nt to them to execute ●● sentence. These two Arguments Mr B. are in your hands like the two witnesses Ans. that came against Christ, they neither agree one with an other, nor either of them with the truth. In the former you plead for the Presbytery in saying that some of them did proceed against him, in the latter you utterly overthrow that, and step in for the Bishop's sole power where you make Paul alone judge and determiner of the business. I am verily persuaded Mr Smyth hath felt your pulse in Mr Smyth pag. ●4. this place, and found directly what blood runs in your ●eynes; to him therefore do I leave you for judgement in the case. And for answer to the particulars. In the first argument you do most sinfully corrupt the scriptures, knowing that if they be sound alleged, they will give no countenance to your error. For where Paul saith, it is sufficient for 2 Cor. 2. 6. the same man that he was rebuked of many, you for the word many put s●me: where some doth import a part, and but a part: (for where some are said to do a thing, it follows, that other some do it not) where the word many is oft times put for all, as being opposed to one, or a few: as in this place, many rebuking to one rebuked. Take for this phrase of speech, these scriptures. Dan. 12. 2. Mat. 13. 17. Luke 12. 7. Rom. 5. 19 and 8. 29. & 12. 4. 5. 1 Cor. 10. 17. & 12. 12. 14. But mark I pray thee (wise reader) when this man expounds Math. 18. 19 20. where mention is made of a few two or three having the power of Christ, there by two, or three are meant the officers, and Christ hath established the authority of a few for the good of all, and again two or three officers, and a few, have this authority: and yet notwithstanding, when he comes to expound 2 Cor. 2. 6. where mention pag. 95. 98. is made of many rebuking the offender, there by many must be meant the officers also. What Mr B: are two or three Officers in respect of the whole body many? Doth the holy Ghost speaking of a few in the Church, mean the officers, and speaking of many, mean the officers also? It were good you awoke out of your dream, that you might spy your contradictions, and how one piece reproves an other. To the objection I do answer, that first it doth not appear that the party was excommunicated, it may be upon admonition he repented, and so the extremity spoken of, 1 Cor. 5. 5. was prevented: and 2. if he were, either by many may be meant all, as I have formerly showed, or otherwise it is sufficient if some reprove, the Elders or some of them, specially, by their office, and so of the brethren in the second place, if they see necessary cause; whereupon with the silent consent of the rest, judgement may be given, or the party delivered to Satan. Mr B. The 7. Reason to prove the Elders the Church, is, the judgement, and practise of all reformed Churches. As the reformed Churches do abhor from your practice, as ●ns. intolerable, yea almost incredible, that the power of excommunication should be in the hands of one man, and that a foreign Prelate, or Official, that most like never so much in his life as once came in the congregation, whereof the offender is a member, as may be seen in one for all, Beza Epist. 12. so because you will needs thus bear over all with all the reformed Churches, I will a little step out of my beaten way, and call in a few (welldeserving audience) of the reformed Churches to testify what their judgement is in the case, joining unto them also a few of our own men seeming to be of the same mind, whatsoever the practice is either of the one, or of the other. To omit then the judgement and practice of the more ancient times, whether whole counsels, or particular persons, (as of the Council of N●ce, where Paphu●tius, no Church officer, both had & used such liberty of speech, as he persuaded the whole assembly touching the marriage of Ministers: of Tertullian before that, who Apol: chap. 39 makes the officers only Precedents in the assembly, where manners are censured: of Cyprian who would never do any thing in his charge, without the consent of the people. lib. 3▪ epist. 10. and in particular thinks it specially the people's right to choose or reject worthy, or unworthy Ministers, than which what power is greater? Of Austin, that thinks it helps much to the shaming of the party, that he be excommunicated by the whole Church, lib. 3. contra epist. Parmen: and lastly of jerom ad Demetr. which affirms that the Church itself hath right in excommunication, as the Elders have in other Church censures) the first is Zwinglius, who arti●▪ 8. explanat: speaking of the contention which hath been what a Church is, acknowledges none other Churches but 1. the company of sure & firm believers scattered through the universal world, which we call the catholic Church: & 2. several congregations, which conveniently meet together in some one place, etc. and of these he affirms Christ to speak, Math. 18. Tell the Church, and Paul. 1 Cor. 1. To the Church which is at Corinth. And answering an objection touching a Church representative he saith, of this I find nothing in the scriptures: out of men's devises any man may feyn any thing. Next Perter Martyr, in his common places pant: 4. chap. 5. sect. 9 making the Church a Monarchy in respect of Christ, an Aristocracy in respect of the Elders, addeth also that because in the Church there are matters of great weight, and importance referred unto the people, as excommunication, absolution, of choosing Ministers, & the like, it hath also a consideration of popular government: and upon 1 Cor. 5. 4. The Apostle as great as he was would not excommunicate alone, but did take counsel with the Church that the thing might be done by common authority. Which notwithstanding the Pope, and other Bishops dare do. The Apostle indeed goes before the rest, which is the duty of the ancients of the Ch: that the more ignorant multitude by their suffragation before going, may be directed in judging. With him join Bucer, who in his first book chapt. 9 de regno Christi, affirms that Paul accuses the Corinthians, for that the whole Church had not excommunicated the incestuous person. Bastingius in the 4. place, question 85. of his Catichism speaking of the difference between the two keys that of preaching, & the other of discipline places it in this, that the former which is of the preaching of the gospel is committed to the Ministers, the other, because it perteyns to the discipline of excommunication, is permitted to the whole Church. Lastly, even Beza himself, how strait soever he be to the multitude in this case, hardly granting them the liberty which “ first book pag. 98. Mr B. yea which the very * Maldonatus ●●on Math 18. jesuits do, namely that they were with the Elders gathered together in the name of the Lord jesus, 1 Cor. 5. 4. yea & do plainly deny it in his Annotations upon 2 Cor. 2. 6. Yet upon v. ●. he is constrained to affirm, that Paul entreats that the incestuous person might by the public consent of the Church be declared a brother, as he was by the Churches public consent cast out. Now to these special lights in the reformed Churches abroad, I will annex a few of the chief endeavours of reformation at home. The first of them is Mr Hooper, who in his Apology writes, that excommunication should be by the Bishop, & the whole Parish, & that Paul's consent, & the whole Church with him did excommunicate the incestuous man. To him add Mr Fox, whose judgement in the book of Martyrs, pag. 5. 6. 7. is, and so is enforced by him that writ the discovery of D. Ban●r ofts untruths, and slanders against reformation, that every visible Church, or congregation, hath the power of binding, and losing annexed to it. If it be said the Church hath it, if the Officers have it: I see not but it may be as well said, the Church hath the scriptures in a known tongue, if the Officers so enjoy them. Thirdly Mr Cartwright in his reply to D. Whitgifts' answer, pag. 147 both affirms, and proves, that Paul both understanding, and observing the rule of our Saviour Christ, communicates this power of excommunication with the Church, Him also an other writing A demonstration of discipline, allegeth, adding further that they which were met together, 1 Cor. 5. 4. 5. were to excommunicate the incestuous person: with whom also consorteth he that wrote of the certain form of ecclesiastical governments, who under that head of the authority of the Ministers of the word that by the Church Math. 18. Christ means a particular Congregation, the Pastor, Elders, & people consenting, making that the judgement of the particular congregation which is spoken of 1 Cor. 5. 12. In the 4. place Mr jacob in his book to the King for reformation, pag. 28. pleads for the people's consent and voicegiving in elections, & excommunications: to whom I join them that made the Christian offer to justify against the Bishops, and their adherents, that▪ every ordinary assembly of the faithful, hath by Christ's ordinance power in itself immediately under Christ, to elect, and ordain, deprive, and depose their Ministers, and to execute all other ecclesiastical censures. Proposition 5. & Prop. 8, that the officers can do no material ecclesiastical act without the free consent of the Congregation. Lastly * pag. 180. the godly Ministers in the end of Mr Bernard's book do directly judge against him, interpreting the Church. Math. 18. to be a particular Congregation, and excommunication the judgement, & censure of that particular congregation whereof the offender is a member. Thus have I been constrained by the bold boasting, and facing, which this man useth, of, and with the judgement of all reformed Church●●, to set down the judgements of some few amongst many both at home▪ and abroad for his conviction; though I desire the touchstone of the holy scriptures alone may try all differences betwixt him and me. I now return to Mr Bernard where I left him: & so come to two reasons he annexeth pag. 98. 99 to prove the officers to be called the Church: the former is, because it is, an Mr B. usual speech to put the name of the whole upon the part, and this to be taken for the whole. The 2. because a company is nowhere called a Church in the new testament, but where they have officers. The latter of these I have formerly confuted as the reader may Answ. see pag. 126. 127. etc. Only I add one thing upon occasion of these words a Church in the new testament, that as there is but † Eph. 4. 4. one body, or Church, and we under the new testament that “ Chap. 3. 6. one, or the same body or Church with the jews in the old, so (if the Ministry made the Church, how much more if it were the Church) could it not be, that the jews and we should be one Church, for I shall never be brought to believe, nor, I think will any man affirm it, that the Ministry of an Apostle, or Elder now, is the same in nature with the Ministry of a sacrificing Levite under the law. We are by faith * Luk. 19 9 sons and daughters of Abraham, and partaker of the covenant, and promises, and † Rom. 11. 16. 20. by faith grafted in their holy root, and in this stands our oneness with them, but neither in the Ministry, nor in the government, nor in any other ordinance which are but manners of dispensing that covenant, and those diverse & changeable, where the covenant is nothing less. And for the former of your reasons, (howsoever the place you bring Act. 15. 3. proves no such matter) yet is the thing true you say, namely that a part of the Church is sometimes called by the name of the whole; but what part? not the officers, but the brethren, the saints, as being the matter (an essential cause) of the Church: the Elders not so, as being but for the assistance, and well being of it. And so the Church gives both being, and denomination to the Elders, but not the Elders to the Church: which is never called the Church of the Elders, as they are called “ Act. 20. 17. the Elders of the Church, and so are of it, and not it of them. That which you add of inconveniences, and discommodities following upon your doctrine not to be regarded is frivolous, except by them you mean, absurdities, and inconsequences, ●a al●g● in theologia, as they call them, and then they are to be regarded, as never necessarily following upon any truth: for the truth brings forth no error by true consequence. The sixth Reason, of the superior order, followeth, (for Mr B. hath his reasons, and his under reasons) which is, In itself (the multitude being ever unconstant) it is instability, unorderlynesse, Mr B. where every one is a like equal, it is the nurse of confusion, the mother of schism, the breeder of contention. Ans. These very same things have been formerly objected by you in the fourth part of your 5. argument, and there cleared. The truth is, the drawing of all power into the officers hands, breeds in them pride, and arrogancy, and in the people ignorance, and security. And for your contemptuous upbraiding of God's people in this book, with inconstancy, instability, pride, contention, and the like evils, but specially in your second book, where with a scurtilous, and profane spirit you nickname them, Srmon the Saddler, Tomkin the Tailor, Billy the bellows maker, as you show whose child you are, joh. 7. 48. 49. in so speaking, so doth the Spirit of God give an other testimony of them Act. 2 41 42. Phil. 1. 6. 7. 1 Th. 3. 5. 6. 7 8. 1 Pet. 1 7 8. In deed (as I formerly said) no mervaul though such multitudes as yours are, be unstable and variable, and ready to change their religion with their Prince, yea though it be to Popery, as appeared in Queen Mary's days, universally scarce one of ten thousand excepted: only the mischief was, that the prelates and Priests were as unstable as the rest, yea their ringleaders also. But for ourselves, Mr Bern. and that whereof we take experience in this our popularity, as you term it, I tell you, that if ever I saw th● b●a●●y of Zion, & the glory of the Lord filling his tabernacle, it hath b●en in the manifestation of the diverse graces of God in the Church, in that heavenly harmony, and comely order, wherein by the grace of God we are set and walk: wherein, if your eyes had but seen the brethren's sober, and modest carriage one towards an other, their humble, and willing submission unto their guides, in the Lord, their tender compassion towards the weak, their ●●rvent zeal against scandalous offenders, and their long suffering towards all, you would (I am persuaded) change your mind, and be compelled to take up your parable, and bless, where you purposed to curse, as Balaam did, Numb. 23. But whatsoever you, and all others do, these our experimental comforts neither you, nor any other shall take from us. Your 7. and 8. Reason are of one nature, and may for brevity Mr B. sake be contracted into one: the sum whereof is, that the sheep, & flock are to obey, and depend upon their shepherd, Heb. 13. 17. 1 Pet. 5. 2. the children to be subject to their father, 1 Cor. 4. 15. the work to be ordered by the workman 1 Cor. 4. 12. the corn by the seeds man, and not the contrary: and there cannot be showed in the old or new testament any example, that ever the people had command over their Pastors, or power to ●ast▪ them out. These things are popular, and may deceive the simple, and credulous, Ans. but though * Prov. 14. 15. the fool believe every thing, yet the prudent will consider his steps. We deny not then, but the flock both severally and jointly is to obey them that have the oversight of them, Heb. 13. 17. to know them, and to have them in singular love, 1 Thes. 5. 12. 13. but it must be in the Lord, and for their works suke: and wherein they watch for their soul. as is expressed in the same places. But what now if the officers will reign beside the Lord? if their works be such, as deserve hatred, and not love? if in stead of watching for the people's souls, they take a course, either to starve them through negligence, or to poison them with heresy, or evil life? must they still obey them? or hath the Church no remedy against them? The Churches of Galatia were bound to receive, and submit unto such Ministers as brought the doctrine of Christ; and yet “ Gal. 1. 9 Deut. 7. 26 if any man, yea though he were an Apostle, or above an Apostle, should bring any other doctrine they were to hold him accursed, and so to cast him away as an accursed thing. The Collosians were bound to obey Archippus in the lawful execution of his Ministry, and yet they might † Col. 4. 17. say unto him, look to thy Ministry, and if they might so admonish him, certainly they might go further with him, if there were cause. The Pilate is to guide the ship, and all that are in it▪ (yea though the King himself be there) but if he either ignorantly, or desperately will run upó the sands, he may be displaced by his passengers, and the fittest put in his room, as I have formerly observed. Now not only the Church is commonly, and fitly compared to a ship, but the very word used 1 Cor. 12. 28. ●or the “ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 govern●●● of the Church, is borrowed from the government, and guidance of a ship in the original. And if nature teach this liberty, in bodily danger, how much greater liberty doth the Lord give in the spiritual danger, both of soul, and body also? And your question of examples for the people's casting out their officers, is frivolous, if there be a commondement or rule for it. What example have you, but grounds, for the baptizing of infants? Or where read you of any officer excommunicate by any? And certainly if the body of the Church may not cast out the Pastor for obstinate sin, no person, nor persons upon earth may do it. But the vanity of your opinion I do thus manifest. First you affirm pag. 88 that to separate from, is all one in substance I. with, to excommunicate (though called by a name l●sse odious). Whence it followeth that if the body of the Church may not excommunicate their officers, they may not separate from them, no not though they prove Papists or Atheists, or never so abominable, oh the hellish bondage wherein these men would enthrall the Lords people to their destruction. If the Congregation may choose, and elect their governors, II. than they may reject and reprobate them: (for they that set up may pull down) but this liberty (as strait as you are to the multitude) you yourself grant them, pag. 97. and if you denied it, the scriptures assure it them, Act. 1, and 6. 1. 2. 3. 4. & 14. 23. But if in these words, the people have no command over their Pastors, nor power to cast them out, you would intimate, that they might depose them but not excommunicate them, it would nothing avail you. For as it were a strange thing, that men should have no command over their servants, (as I have of● times showed the Church Officers to be the Church servants) so were it a● strange, if the putting of servants out of their Office, should not argue power over them. And besides deposition (if any such ordinance be to be used in the Church, is not of persons obstinate in sin, but of such, as having by gross idolatry, or some other notorious crime, so scandalously fallen, as they cannot be retained in their Ministry, with the safety, and credit of the Church, & Gospel, no not though they repent, but (not withstanding their repentance, and continuance in the Church upon the same) they are to be disseyzed of their Ministry, and “ Ezek. 44 10. 12. 13. to bear their iniquity, and shame. But this is nothing to men obstinate in sin, who may not upon their deposition, be continued in the Church; and to deal with them a new for the sin, for which they have been formerly censured, or to censure them twice for one sin, is an idle and unwarrantable course. They are therefore to be cast out by the people, and so under their excommunication, is their deprivation comprehended. If the Pastor (and so of the rest of the Officers) be a brother III. in the Church, (as * Mat. 23. 8. all God's children are the saints brethren) then must the Church not suffer † Lev. 1●. 17. sin to rest upon him, but must admonish him, and if he remain obstinate, cast him out. For the Lord jesus subjects every brother indefinitely, and without respect of persons, to this censure, Mat. 18. 17. 1 Cor. 5. 11, 12. 13. From which last scripture another Argument of the same nature may be drawn, which is, that if the Pastor (and so of the other officers) be within, and not without, and under the Lord's judgement, then are they under the judgement of the Church “ verse 4. gathered together in the name of our Lord jesus, which you confess to be * pag. 92. the multitude; yea I see not how the Pastor, or officers may be admonished by the Church, if they may not be cast out, or how the Collossians may † Col. 4. 1●. say to Archippus, take heed to thy Ministry, if they may not censure him, if he be heedless; for he that will not hear the Church, must be excommunicated, or (which is a description of excommunication by an effect) must be accounted an heathen or publican. They † Cor. ●. 12. 13. that are without & under the Lord's judgement, are exempted FOUR from the Church's judgements, but they which are within, the Church▪ must judge: and therefore if the Ministers be within, and not without, and under God's judgements, they must undergo the judgements of the Church. If the Pastor (and the like reason is of the rest)▪ may not be excommunicated V. for sin, by the Church, than he and they want a means of salvation, which the brethren have, y●● the only folenin means of salvation in the case of obstinacy, ●o which they are as sub●ect, as any other, being frail men, as the rest. And the reason is, for that, as “ Rom. 1. ●7. the preaching of the gospel (which is the one key of the kingdom) is the power of God to salvation unto them that believe, so excommunication (being the other key) is, * 1 Cor. 5. 4. 5. the power of our Lord jesus for the destruction of the flesh, or humbling of the offender, that his foul might be saved. Now what a miserable privilege this were▪ all men truly fearing God, will easily observ●●▪ And for mine own part, knowing mine own infirmities, and that I am subject to sin, yea & to frowardness in sin, as much as the brethren are: if by mine office I should be deprived of the romedy, which they enjoy, that blessed ordinance of the Churches conjures, I should think mine office accursed, and myself by it, as frustrating, and dissappointing me of that main end, for which the servants of Christ ought to join themselves unto the Church of Christ▪ furnished wi●h his power for their reformation. And sin●e the chief thing, which after the glory of God, the saints are to regard, is their salvation, and that their salvation is no way endangered, but by obstinate impenitency, and that obstinate impenitency hath none other solemn ordinance for remedy, but excommunication, what cause of sorrow had I for the want of this sovereign remedy, and means of salvation by mine office, which without it I might enjoy? As on the contrary, God is my record, how in the very writing of these things, m● soul is filled with spiritual joy, that I am under this easy yoke of Christ the censures of the Church, whereof I am, and how much I am comforted in this very consideration, against my vile, and corrupt nature, which notwithstanding, I am persuaded the Lord w●ll never so far suffer to rebel, as that i● shall not be taymed, & subdued by this strong hand of God, with out which it might every day and hour so hazard my salvation. That doctrine which advanceth an inferior and meaner estate VI in the Church, above that which is superior, & the chief, that is unsound, and in deed serving in a degree for “ 2 Thes. ●. 4. the exaltation of th●● man of sin a 〈◊〉 all that is called God. But this doctrine of Mn●st● setting the Elders without and above the judgements▪ and censures of the Church doth advance an inferior above a suporiour. Ergo. The point then to be proved is, that the order of saints or say●tship in the Church; is an order superior unto, and above the order of officers▪ or of Bishoptick, or Eldership▪ which I thus manifest. 1. The order of servants is inferior to the order of them, whose servants they are. But the order of Church Officers, is an order of † 2 Chron. 35. 3. servants, and they by their offic● to 〈◊〉 the people▪ Ergo. 2. The order of Kings is the highest order o●●sta●● in the Num. 16. 9 Eze. 44. 11. 2 Cor. 4. 5. Church. But the order of * Exo. 19 6. 1 Pet. 2. 9 Rev. 1. 6. saints is the order of Kings, & we are Kings as we are saints not as we are officers. Ergo▪ 3. As the Apostle proves the woman to be inferior unto, and less excellent than the man, 1. because †† ● Cor. 11. 7. 5. 9 〈◊〉 is not of th● woman, but the woman of the man● and 2▪ because the man was not created for the womuns sake, but the woman for the man's sake, ●o by necessary consequence, and just proportion it followeth, that the Elders are inferior, and less excellent, than the Church, as being both of, and for the Church, and not the Church of, nor for them. 4. As the Lord jesus did prove against the Scribes & Pharisees, that “ Math. 23. 17. 19 the temple was greater than the gold, because it sanctified the gold, and that the altar was greater than the offering, because it sanctified the offoring, so by proportion the condition of a saint, which sanctifieth the condition of an officer (as our general calling doth our special calling) is more excellent and greater than it is. To our sayntship, and as we have faith, is promised the forgiveness of sins, the favour of God, and life eternal, but not to our office, or in respect of it. The estate of a saint is most happy & blessed, though the person never so much as come near an office, but on the contrary, an officer, if he be not also, and first, a saint, is a most wretched, and accursed creature. Infinite others are the reasons to disprove the pretended charter, by which this popish Clergy would exempt itself from the common condition of Christians, in the common Christian ordinances of the Church, as though their office ate up their brotherhood, & their special calling of officers their general calling of Christians. And I cannot more fitly resemble this exemption of one, or more officers, from the ecclesiastical censures, unto which one or so many brethren are subject being in the same sin, then to the like exemption or privilege, springing (as it seems) from the same root, in civil judgements, commonly called The benefit of clergy. For as by it a malefactor (if he can read ut clericus, as they speak, shall escape death which others do, & so he should without that benefit, undergo: so by the benefit of clergy here, the person delinquent is freed from the dint of the spiritual sword, the censure of the Church, which others do, and so he should without that privilege, undergo, as well as they. Where me thinks, it were more meet, as, that he, which can read, and so hath, or may have greater knowledge should be the more severely punished civilly, so, that the officers in the Church should undergo (if it were to be found) an heavier censure for their sin, as being both more scandalous, and less excusable: And so the Lord by Moses expressly manifests his will to be, in enjoining the Priest a greater sacrifice * Levit. 4. 3●-2●. ●●. a bullock for his sin, where a goat (which was less) might serve in the like case for the su● of one of the people. And this may well serve for a seventh reason to prove that the VII. officers are by the law of God liable to as deep censures for sin, as the people, and so the Pastor, as any one of the brethren. Yet for the further & more full opening of the iniquity of those proud and popish exemptions, and exaltations of Church officers, whereof from these scriptures alleged by Mr B. and the like, they boast so much, and by which they affright, and abuse the simple people, in all places, I will briefly, as I can, lay down certain such different respects, and relations, under which the officers of the Church do come, as being rightly understood, & justly applied, will give good light to the discovering of this mystery. First then, the officers of the Church are to be considered in respect I. of the thing, which they minister, and that is, the word, and revealed will of God, in which regard they are infinitely above, & superior unto all * Gal. 1. 8. men and angels, and † 2 Cor. 5. 19 2●. in the very stead of Christ, and of God himself. And in, for, and according to this message, or embassage of God, and of Christ, they are absolutely and simply to be obeyed as is the meanest officer about the King, carrying with him his warrant, and authority, by the greatest Peer in the kingdom. In the 2. place they must be considered of us, in respect of their II. office, by virtue whereof they do administer. And in this regard they are inferior unto the Church, as being by it called to a place of ministry to serve the Church, and not of Lordship to reign over it. The 3. consideration they undergo, is, in regard of their persons, III. and as they are brethren, saints, christians, (for they cease not to be Christians, because they are Ministers, but must manifest their general calling in their special) partakers of the same common graces, and subject to the same common infirmities with the rest: and in this respect they are equal with the brethren, standing in need of the same means both for their edification, and reformation, and so particularly, of the censures for their humiliation, if they be so far left of God, (as they may be, and oft times are) as they will not otherwise be reclaimed. And I had as leiv you should tell me, that, because the Deacons are to distribute the Church's alms, therefore the Church is not to releiv them, though they be in danger to starve bodily, as that because the Elders are to minister the Church's judgements, none must judge them, though they be through impenitency in danger to perish spiritually. Now for the particulars, which Mr B. objecteth: it is true, the people are sheep, but not the Ministers, but the Lords sheep. Ezech. 34. 6. 8— 31. neither are these sheep for the Ministers, as the natural sheep for their shepherds, but for the Lord, and the shepherds for them. The people are indeed an house, but not the officers house, but the Lords house, for him to dwell in. Ephe. 2. 20. 21. 1 Tim. 3. 15. Secondly the people are sheep, yet not unreasonable beasts, but men, Ezech. 34. 31. so to be looked to by the shepherds, as they are also to look to themselves, Act. 20. 28. Luk. 17. 3. They are so a house, as they consist not of dead, but of living stones, 1 Pet. 2. 5. so built up by the Officers as they are also to build up themselves, jud. 20. And which is especially to be minded for the purpose in hand, the officers are so shepherds, as they are, also themselves sheep, (if they be not goats) Math. 25. 37. Luk. 12. 32. Rom. 8. 36. They are so fathers as they are also brethren, Mat. 23. 8. Act. 1. 16. 2 Cor. 8. ●●. yea, as they are sons also, in a sense as the Levite was in sundry respects, both Michaes father and his son▪ judg. 17. 1. 11. They are so workmen, or builders, as they are also part of the house, Ephe. 2. 22. 2 Tim. 2. 20. so seeds-men, as themselves are also seed, and a part of the harvest, Math. 13. 38. These distinctions rightly observed, will both teach the officers how to govern, and the people how to obey, and both officers, & people how to preserve themselves, and one another, under the power of Christ given to his Church. And where you demand in this place, (by way of digression) how a few of us become a Church, we answer in a word by coming out of Babylon, (through the mercies of God) and building ourselves into a new and holy temple unto the Lord. But where you affirm the Ministry, that is the office of Ministry, or the word so ministered, to be the Lords only ordinary means to plant Churches, or to urge men to join unto them, you streyten the Lords hand, and wrong his people. When * ●●h. 4. 28 29. 30 40. the woman of Samarta spoke to her neighbours of Christ, and called them unto him, they both believed, and came; but had you been amongst them, it seems you would have done neither the one nor the other, except a Minister had called you. I confess indeed the Churches in England, were very mannerly this way, & would not so much as forsake the Pope of Rome, till their mass-priests went before them, who being continued in their office, did by the attractive power of King Edward's proclamation at the first, and Queen Elizabeth's afterward▪ and by their statute laws, gather heir Parish Churches unto them, under their service book, as 〈…〉 doth her chicken to be brooded under her wing. But the ●●formed Churches were otherwise gathered then by Popish priests continued over them: the people first separating themselves from idolatry, and fo●o●●ing together in the fellowship of the gospel, were afterwards (when they had sit men) to call them into the office of Ministry, and so they practised, as appears in the Epistle of Melanctbon to the Teachers▪ in Bohemia▪ in D. Tile●us his answer to the Earl of Lavall: and in Peter Martyr upon the 4. of judges. It is true indeed, that the Lord jesus sent forth his Apostles into the world, for the first planting of Churches: (though even in their times Ch: were planted & men turned to the Lord by the preaching of private brethren, Act. 8. 1. 4. & 11. 19 20. 21. & therefore Barnabas coming among them, is not said to have joined them unto the Lord, but to have exhorted them, which were joined, to continued with the Lord. vers. 23. and to have persuaded others to join themselves unto the Lord also: vers. 24.) but that this course ordinary set by Christ, should be held in the replanting of Churches after the universal apostasy of Antichrist, is a thing impossible. There were then no Ministers, but popish Priests▪ and are they the Lords means Mr Bernard? Shall * 2 Thes. 2. 3. 8. the man of sin be consumed by himself, or by the breath of the Lords mouth? Are false Ministers the Lords ordinary means of planting Churches? Or are popish massepreists, or the popish Bishops from whom they have their authority, and so the Pope himself from whom they have theirs, true Ministers? And is the Church of Rome a true visible Church? For it is not possible there should be a true Ministry in a false Church. These are the inconveniences, and discommodities, Mr Bernard speaks of, & by which he saith we would wring the truth from him. But it is certain, they are such plain demonstrations, as do evince his pretended truths of popish and popular errors. And for the gathering of a Church M. B. I do tell you, that in what place soever, by what means soever, whether by preaching the gospel by a true Minister, by a false minister, by no minister, or by reading, conference, or any other means of publishing it, two or three faithful people do arise, separating themselves from the world into the fellowship of the gospel, and covenant of Abraham, they are a Church truly gathered though never so weak, a house and temple of God rightly founded upon the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets, Christ himself being the corner stone, against which the gates of hell shall not prevail, nor your disgraceful invectives neither. Indeed * the Pharisees thought because they had Abraham for their father, and did descend of him by ordinary succession, & were the formal Teachers of the Church, that therefore God could not possibly cast them off, or have a Church without them: even so it is with the Pharisaical formal clergy in Rome, and England▪ they think that Christ hath so tied his power and presence unto their ceremony of succession, that without them he knows not how to do for a Church, but must needs have it pass through their fingers. But as john Baptist told the old Pharisees▪ † vers. 9 10. that God was able of the stones to raise up children unto Abraham, though they all, & every one of them, like unfruitful trees should be cut down and cast into the f●r●: so say I unto their children, the Pharisees of our ●yme, that though the Lord reject them, and every one of them for their apostasy, and rebellion, yet can he by the seed of the word (cast with what hand soever) raise up unto Abraham children, unto himself a Church. They that are “ Rom. 4. 12. 18. of the faith of Abraham, they are the children, and seed of Abraham, and within the covenaunt of Abraham Gen. 12. 3▪ Gal. 3. 6. 7. ●. 15. 16. 17. (though but two or three) and so of the same Church with him, by that covenaunt. Your last argument to prove the officers the Church Math. 18. IX. and directly to disprove our supposed popularity is, that it is against the dignity, and office of the Ministers, who represent Christ's person unto Mr B. the Congregation, 1 Cor. 4. 1. having authority from him to preach, administer the sacraments, use the censures, which none but such as represent him can give them, (which the body of the people do not by office) nor take from them etc. Answ. This indeed is the thing: the dignity of priesthood is it, which goes nearest you: and that you keep last as jacob did Benjamin, whom of all his sons he was loathest to part with, Gen. 42. 4. & 43. 14. But first if your meaning be, that the Ministers by their office represent Christ in his office, it is little less than blasphemy; for Christ is the husband, and mediator of his Church, by his office, and herein not to be represented by any other man, or angel. The ministers in publishing the gospel, and word of reconciliation are in * 2 Cor. 4. 2●. Christ's stead, and therein to be obeyed as himself; but what if they speak the vision of their own heart, and publish heresy, & false doctrine, or lead a scandalous, and profane life? their office is no dispensation for them, neither are they now any longer in the stead of Christ, but of the Devil whom they resemble, as children their father, and are so to be reputed. Besides, there is no force in your argument: because the body of the Church represents not Christ by office, as the Ministers do, therefore it is no way equal with the Ministers, nor may meddle with them, but the contrary. May not a man as well argue thus? Because the wife no way represents her husband in office, (for she is in no office (the same may be said of the children) a● the steward, and the bailiff do, therefore the wife is no way superior unto them, she may not reprove, or displace them in her husband's absence, what evil soever they do in their office, or persons, but on the contrary they may rebuke her, and turn her out of doors (and her children with her) if there be cause. For they represent the master in office she not. Now we know well “ Cant. ●. 9 ●0. Ephe. ●▪ 29. 30. 32. the Church is the wife, and spouse of Christ, & † 1 Cor. 4. 1 2. the Ministers stewards. Thus having cleared the way of such objections, as wherewith Mr Bernard would stumble the reader, I come in the next place (as I have formerly ordered my course) to declare that the Church, Math. 18. 17. is not the officers, but the whole body meeting together for the public worship of God, and that 1 Cor. 5. proves the same by practice, which is in the former place enjoined by rule. Only I must needs, by the way, make a step into his 2. book amongst his score of reasons there against popularity, and so remove, as it were with my foot, such of them, as are tumbled in by him to make rough the plain ways of the Lord. And they are as the author numbers them the 7. 12. 13. 17. 18. The 7. Reason is, that if a sort of persons professing Christ together, Mr B. without officers have the power of such officers in themselves, they may do all the officers may do▪ We say not that the Church hath the power of the officers, but Answer. the power of Christ, as is expressly affirmed, 1 Cor. 5. 4. 5. and 2. it follows not, that because the Church hath the power of Christ for all things, therefore it can enjoy all things without officers. The power is one thing, which is inseparable from the body, the use of the power an other thing, which in many cases it may want. Civil corporations have the King's power, and charter, as well without as with officers, and yet it may be there are liberties in their charter they cannot enjoy without officers: they have therefore power for officers also, which they may choose, and so enjoy all their liberties by their help: so in the spiritual corporation the Church, there is always the whole power of Christ residing, which therefore may call officers for the use of it; to which it is sufficient, that it can without officers use this power for things simply necessary, as for the receiving in of members by profession of faith, and confession of sins, for the edifying of them by exhortations, & comforts in the ordinance of prophesying, and so for casting them out by excommunication, which fall from their former profession, or confession. ●● Bern. The sum of the 11. and 12. Reas: is, that this power or liberty of the multitude to judge in Church matters, overthrows the power, & authority of Christian Magistrates in the Church, to whom the people are commanded to be subject both in the old and new testament. ●●sw. And doth not the ill advised man consider that his own opinion, making the officers of the Church, alone the Church, and giving them power to judge in Church matters without the rest of the body, doth as much overthrow the authority of Christian Magistrates, as ours, in making the officers and body with them the Church, having power to judge together? yea much more: for if the ecclesiastical officers alone be the Church, Math. 18. and so must judge and censure sins (which is the thing he pleads for) then ● the civil magistrate simply excluded: where we reputing the whole body the Church, do necessarily include the Christian Magistrate, as being one of the Church. Secondly is Mr B. and his brother Bell (whom he quotes in the 〈…〉 gent) to ignorant, as they cannot distinguish betwixt civil authority, and judgements in Church matters, and that authority and those judgements, which are ecclesiastical? The Christian magistrate, as he is a brother, may be censured ecclesiastically by the Church, whereof he is a member: and yet the same person as a magistrate whether of the Church, or not of the Church, or cast out of the Church, may censure, and punish civilly the whole Church, and every member of it, if there be cause, whether in matters of the Church or common wealth. In the 17. reason Mr B. would fasten upon us an absurdity, in Mr B. making the body both to govern and to be governed, and so to be both Lord and servant, Prince and subject, etc. It is yourself Mr Ber. that commit the absurdity, which I thus Answ. manifest. The Church must be governed, saith the scripture, and common sense. But the Church is the officers, Math. 18. saith Mr Bernard. Whereupon it followeth that the Officers must be governed. And to your reason, whomsoever you count Lords, and servants, and whosoever are Lords, and servants in your Church, I know by the scriptures that in the Church of Christ the officers are † 2 Cor. 4. 5. servants, & in that relation the Church may be called a Lord; and if Christ truly call * Math. 2. 27. 28. the son of man Lord of the sabbath, because the sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath, may we also call the Church in a respect, Lord of the Officers, for the Officers are for the Church, and not the Church for them. And yet we hold the same officers which are servants, to be governors also, for the government of the Church, is merely a Church-service, as all not carnally blinded with ambition, or superstition, will grant with me. Now where you affirm, Reas: 18. that the people are never termed by any name insinuating sovereignty, but that the Ministers are, you speak partially on both sides, would you have the Ministers, that is, the servants of the Church, to be her sovereigns? The names you bring as most advauntageable, argue no such thing. They are Overseers, as the watchmen are for the city: Elders for th●ir gravity: Fathers in respect of the seed of the word by which they b●ge▪ to conversion, and therefore Paul makes himself he only * 1 Cor 4. 15. father of the Corinthians, because he had been the instrument of their conversion, notwithstanding all other teachers whomsoever, to whom in that respect he opposeth himself▪ as not being their fathers. And so men out of office may be as well the fathers of others, as they in office. However, fatherhood argues no sovereignty. And yet the holy Apostles & Prophets thought not much upon all occasions, to account the saints their brethren, and themselves theirs. And I would you wist, whose names john Bale in his Paraphrase upon the Revelation ch. 17: vers. 3. thought your Grace, your Lordship, your Fatherhood, to be. And where further you name the brethren, sheep, the household of faith, the wife, or spouse in respect of the officers (for that is the consideration in hand) therein you deal very deceitfully; for the brethren or saints, are not the Officers sheep, household, wife, or spouse, but Christ's: betwixt whom, and them the comparison is not. Lastly your affirmation that the saints are called Kings, Rev. 1. 6. not for any outward power over men, but for the inward power of God's spirit sanctifying the elect, by which, as Kings, they rule over their own corruptions, is an ill gloss corrupting the text. For in the same place, they are called Priests also. Now as they are not Priests only for themselves, but for their brethren, for whom they are to offer up the spiritual sacrifices of prayer, & thanksgiving: so neither are they Kings for themselves alone, but for their brethren also, having † 1 Cor. 5. 4. 12. the power of Christ whereby to judge them, “ Math. 16. 19 the keys of the kingdom to bind and loose them, in the order by him prescribed. These things thus laid down occasionally, I return to the point. I. And first against the figurative exposition of these words, Tell the Church, I do allege two approved Rules, and Canon▪ in divinity, for exposition of scriptures. The former is, that scriptures must be expounded according to the largest extent of the words, except there be some apparent restraint of them. The second is, that they must be expounded simply, and according to the letter, except necessity compel to depart from the literal sense to a figurative. And therefore since there appears not any such necessity, as is pretended, either of figure or restraint, the words must be taken in their largest, and simplest meaning. With these rules I desire the reader to bear in mind that, which hath been formerly observed to the purpose in hand, and amongst other things, that the officers are to govern the Church in the censures, as in all other actions of communion, and therefore cannot be the Church; that every true Ch▪ hath, or is capable of, a ministry over it, and so there should be a minister of ministers: that the order of officers in the Church is an order of servants, and the order of saints an order of Kings (which is the highest order in the Church) fitting upon the thrones of David for judgement, whom the ministers are to serve in guiding & going before them, in, and in ministering of their judgements. And so I go on. The rule prescribed Mat▪ 18. concerns all the visible Churches II. in the world: since the power of excommunication is an essential property, one of the keys of the kingdom, the only solemn ordinance in the Church, for the humbling, and saving of an obstinate offender, and as necessary as the power to receive in members, without which a Church cannot be gathered, or consist. And therefore the Officers cannot be the Church there spoken of, since true Churches may (and do) want officers, as I have formerly proved. If two or three officers be the Church, Math. 18. than may they III. two or three excommunicate the whole body, though it consist of a thousand persons: for what brother, or brethren soever, will not hear the Church there spoken of, he or they are to be accounted as heathens and publicans. Yea, I add, if the power of excommunication be ●yed to the office, since the office may remain in one, I see not but one may do any work of his office, and so as well excommunicate, as admonish, preach, minister the sacraments and the rest. Now whether this power in one or two, to punish judicially one or two thousand, be not Lordly at the least, let the reader judge. Further, if the officers be the Church, I would know, if one of FOUR them fall into scandalous sin, and will not be reclaimed, what must then be done. It willbe answered, that the rest must censure him. But what if there be but two in all, must the one excommunicate the other? the ruling Elder (it may be) the Pastor? 2. if the rest of the Elders, (being many) may displace the Pastor by their authority, they may also place him, and set him up by their authority, and so the poor laity is stripped of all liberty, or power of choosing their officers, contrary both to the scriptures, and your 〈…〉 o●ne grant. If the Officers be the Church, than they alone may excommunicate V. a brother without the consent, yea or the privity of any of the brethren: for the business concerns none but the Church, Math. 18. neither need they so much as acquaint any others with it. But so absurd is this, as you yourself grant the contrary, and ●ag. 92. ●pon 1 Cor. ●5. tha● it must be done with the knowledge of the Church publicly, and when the body meets together in open assembly. The Apostles themselves, (whom no ministers now can equal VI either for skill, or authority) did not thus engross all things into their own hands, but did interest the people, though raw, & newly come to the faith, in all the public affairs of the Church, and in such deliberations, as arose about them. And who should deny them to meddle in those things which concern them? But if any do, these scriptures avow their liberty. Act. 1. 15. 23. 26. & 6. 2. 5. & 11. 2. 3. 18. & 22. 1. & 14. 17. & 15. 3. 4. 14. 21. 22. 30. 31. & 21. 22. Rom. 16. 17. 1 Cor. 5. 4. & 16. 3. 2 Cor. 8. 19 23. 24. Now there is nothing that more concerns the body of the Church, than the excommunication of a brother, whether we respect the commandment of God, binding them * Lev. 19 7. not to suffer sin upon a brother, but to rebuke him plainly, and “ 1 Thes. 5 4. to admonish him, that being † 1 Tim. 5 0. rebuked by many he may be humbled, & drawn to repentance: or the credit of the Church, which must be defended against the slanders of the excommunicants, which will ever be just in their 2 Cor. 2. 6 own cause: or their own good, that ●t by the rebuking of one, all may learn to fear: or their conscience who must to day avoid him as an heathen, and limb of Satan, whom yesterday they were to embrace as a brother and member of Christ. How clearly these things plead the brethren's both liberty, and interest in all this business, let the indifferent reader judge. If the Officers alone be the Church, to which offenders are to ●II. be brought, and by which they are to be judged, then are they as the Church to admonish and judge those offenders, either apart from the body, or in the face of the public congregation: but neither of these two ways; and therefore they alone are not the Church. Not in private, or apart, for, Then may the Pastor be excommunicated before any one of the I. brethren know of it. Of which evil I have spoken formerly. 2. It is against the nature of the ordinance, being a part of the II. public communion of the Church, and worship of God, to be performed but publicly. Yea there is no reason, why admonitions and censures should be administered less publicly than doctrine, and prayer. For the kingdom of the Lord jesus is as glorious, as his priesthood, or prophetical office: and his throne is to be advanced as high, and made as conspicuous to the eyes of all, as his altar, or pulpit, that I may so speak. Now as the Priestly, and Prophetical offices of Christ are administered in prayer, & preaching, so is his Kingly office in government. In deed if we thought (as you do), that Christ had left his kingdom, the Church, without laws, and officers for the government of it, or that this government were an indifferent thing alterable at the wills and pleasures of men, than we should be as indifferent, where, or how, or by whom it were administered, as you Mr B: are. 3. The officers are to † Act. 20. 28. feed the flock, one part whereof consists III. in government. Now if admonitions, and excommunications may be administered apart from the body, how is the flock fed by them? or how do those Elders, upon whom the government of the Church especially lieth, discharge their public Ministry, and service unto the Lord, and his Church, to which they are called? or how can the Church see, and know their ministration, that they may * 1 Thes. 13. have them in super abundant love for their works sake, if there be cause, or contrariwise, if reason require the contrary? or when “ 1 Tim. 20. they that sin, are rebuked openly, whether Elders, or people, how can the rest fear? Yea how can these men which are to feed the flock by government, be accounted faithful shepherds, either before God, or men, if they gather not the flock together, & see they feed accordingly? though with you Mr B. they that feed the flocks by government, never so much as see the faces of the hundred part of their sheep, and when they have a sheep in hand for straying (it may be from a dumb shepherd to a preacher) they deal with him for the most part many a mile from, but never in, the place, where the particular stock walks, whereof that sheep is. Lastly the administration of Christ's kingdom, being a part of IIII the communion of saints, and public worship, is to be performed of the Lords day, as well as other parts are: and to be joined with the administration of the word, sacraments, alms, and the rest, as making all one entire body of communion: yea in cases, to go before the rest, (I am persuaded) lest the holy things be polluted by notorious obstinate offenders. And if † 1 Cor. 16. 1. ●. the collections for the saints which concerns the body, be a Lords, or first day●● work, how much more the spiritual ordinances which respect the soul, either for humiliation, or comfort? Yea I see not how the Church can compel any to forbear their bodily labour in the six days, wherein God hath given them liberty to work, except it be upon occasions extraordinary, and as they may be constrained to meet for any other part of public worship▪ Well than it must needs be, that this Church of officers must receive, and examine complaints, reprove and censure offenders publicly, and with the knowledge of the whole body, met together in public assembly, and this liberty in the execution of excommunication, you grant the multitude, pag. 92. of your book. And surely there must be but one Church for the whole business. But this course is more unreasonable than the other, namely, that the brethren must be gathered together to be spectators, whiles the officers alone sit upon the thrones of David, to hear, and judge, excluding the brethren from all communion with them, though they be personally present. For the communion of the Church stands not in this, that men are present, and see and hear what is done, and receive profit, (for so may they do which are without) but in the mutual relation, and concurrence of the parts, and is in this ordinance only amongst them, which are reproved, or do reprove, at least by consent, if they see cause, which are censured, or do censure. And besides it is against common sense, that the officers should be the Church representative, when the body of the Church, which they represent, is present, (as hath been formerly showed:) & to call the officers alone the Church, or assembly, (which are both one) when the people are assembled with them as necessary parts, is to call one part of the Church, the Church, excluding an other part of it. If the officers alone be the Church to be told, and to admonish, VIII. and judge the offender, (for there is one, and the same Church for all these) than it must follow, that if the Officers admonish, the Church also admonisheth, and on the contrary, that if the officers refuse, the Church also refuseth to admonish an offender: but neither the one, nor the other of these is true. First, the Elders observing sin, may and aught to admonish the party sinning, whether the Church observe it, or no▪ yea though the whole Church be otherwise minded, yea any one of the Elders may admonish (if he see cause) both the rest of the officers, & the brethren also: but this admonition cannot be the admonition of the Ch:, except we will say the Church may admonish where she sees no sin, yea against her will, yea which is most senseless, except she may be said to admonish herself. The second point needs no great refutation. For who will say, that, if the officers refuse to admonish, and make themselves accessary unto sin by boulstering it up, that then the Church is also sailing, and the whole lump thereby leavened, except the rest consent with them, or fail in their personal duties: which notwithstanding might be said of them, and imputed unto them, if by the Church were meant the officers. If a brother, privately considered, may bind sin privately, upon IX. the party's irrepentance, then may the same brother, as a part of the public assembly, bind for his part publicly: and so he brings the party impenitent privately bound to the Church, holding him still bound upon the continuance of his obstinacy, but publicly now, with the whole communion, as privately before by himself 〈…〉 th' his witness. The consequent of this argum: Mr B. grants in his latter book, pag. 200. upon Mr Smiths urging Mat. 18. compared with some other scriptures much what to this purpose; but the Antecedent (as he speaks) he denies, or rather distinguisheth of these words binding and losing which he understands only to be meant of personal wrongs against a man, but not of sins at all against God. But as this exposition conteyns in it two notable absurdities, the first that other men may forgive injuries or wrongs done unto me, and secondly, that a communion of faithful men (for so the words are) Luk. 12. 14 which is the Church, may meddle with judging civil matters (as are injuries) otherwise then as they are sins against God, at which they take offence, or scandalise: so is it evidently convinced by the text, when Christ speaks of † Math. 18. 1●. binding and losing in heaven, whither injuries come not, save as they are sins against God. Yea Mr B: himself grants in another place of this book, viz: pag. 223. towards the end, that our saviour in this place, speaks of binding and losing spiritually, and that not by the power of Christ given to Ministers, but to common Christians: where he also brings sundry reasons to prove, that the binding, and losing there spoken of, doth no way concern the Ministers, or public Officers, but private persons; notoriously crossing both his first book in the persons, which he will there needs have officers, and no private men, and here private persons, and no officers▪ and his second, in the thing, which in the former place he will have merely of civil consideration, but here grants to be meant religiously. The next reason I take from v. 19 where mention is made by X. Christ of prayer, by which the censures there spoken of are to be sanctified both before, and after they be executed. Whereupon I demand, whether the brethren present with the officers, be part of the Church, to which the offender is brought, and by which he is judged, in the communion of prayer, or no? It will not be denied; thence it must follow, that they are also part of the Church in receiving, and judging of the complaint, or else that they pass in, and out, and in again, in respect of the communion, during one and the same excercise, and the sanctification of it. They which are gathered in, or into the name of Christ, they are the XI. Church spoken of, Math. 18. and have the power of Christ for binding, and losing, as is evident, ver. 20. Now as me thinks it should be strange to affirm, that the brethren present with the Officers, are gathered in or into any other name then the name of Christ, so doth Paul (drawing this rule into practice 1 Cor. 5.) command, that the multitude, with the officers (by not only Mr B. but the Jesuits confession) be gathered together in, or into the name of Christ, and that they so gathered, do by the power of Christ▪ deliver to Satan the offender for his humbling▪ ver. 4▪ 5▪ 〈…〉 XII. Lastly, if the officers, without the brethren, be the Church for the censures, then are they the Church for the other public ordinances of prayer, preaching, sacraments, and the like, and may minister them out of the communion of the body; neither can there be any reason given why they should be▪ the Church for one solemn ordinance, and not for an other, for one part of the public communion of the Church, and not for an other. And therefore in the representative Church of the jews at jerusalem were not only the hard causes opened, about which the people came to inquire, but there were also the sacrifices offered, and other the solemn services performed, according to the dispensations of the times. And to make the officers the Church for one part of the power of Christ, and not for an other, for one solemn administration, and not for an other, (especially having fit instruments to execute,) is a broken course, and indeed to divide Christ from himself. But about this something willbe said, though nothing against it, and namely this. That the officers are to do in one of these ordinances, as in an other, and the multitude no more in the one▪ then in the other● and that as the officers only are to pray, preach, and administer the sacraments, and the people not to meddle with these things, so in the matter of excommunication. To this I reply sundry things. First, if the officers alone be the Church in the censures, than I. it is not in this part of communion, as in other parts: for not the officers alone, but the brethren with them, are the Church, in prayer, preaching, administering the sacraments and the like. And as the Church (being the body of Christ) is the most entire, and best compact of all bodies, so is the communion in it most entire, & full amongst all the parts, so far as natural impossibility▪ hindereth not. And therefore even children (though by nature uncapable of other parts of communion, wherein it is required they should be agents, or do any thing) yet do communicate in that one ordinance of baptism, in the administration whereof (as of circumcision before times) they are merely patients, and baptised in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. But in other actions, and amongst other members, with whom natural inability dispenseth not, there is a full, perfect, and entire communion, and that as sensible, and bodily amongst all, as may be, without confusion. In preaching, prayer, the Lords supper, psalms, elections, and alms, all communicate though with some difference of order and manner of the thing. In the first which is preaching, all communicate, one officer teacheth, and the rest both officers & people are taught: in prayer one officer utters the voice, and the rest of the Church say, Amen, & so all communicate: in the Lord's supper all communicate, one by giving, or administering, and all the rest by receiving with him: in singing of psalms all communicate, yea and that vocally, and together where they can all combine and concur without disorder: in elections all choose, or are chosen: in the distribution of the alms, all either give or receive, and so communicate together. But now in public admonitions, and excommunications, there must be a schism, for the body of the Church is by Mr B: excluded from the communion, (yea though locally present) for all the communion passeth betwixt the parties admonishing, and admonished, excommunicating, and excommunicated, whereof the body of the Church is neither, but a very ●ipher, & a hangby. Secondly, there is great difference betwixt prayer, and II. preaching, on the one side, and excommunication on the other side, in respect of the ordering, and manner of dispensing those ordinances. One officer prepareth in secret, and several from the rest for preaching, and prayer, & so administereth these ordinances lawfully, as the ordinances of the Church without the consent, yea or foreknowledge of any one either brother, or officer: but it is otherwise in admonition, and excommunication. The sin must be told to the Church, and they upon knowledge of it; must admonish the sinner, and so the excommunication is publicly to be prepared, with the foreknowledge, & fore-consent, of the body, which otherwise the officers, (much less one officer, without the knowledge or consent of either other officer, or people) may not minister. One officer▪ I confess▪ may admonish an offender, without the consent of the Church, yea or of any other officer, be there never so many, yea he may admonish both the officers and Church: but this can in no sense be called the admonition of the Church▪ except we will say one officer is the Ch: excluding both the people, and other officers, and that the church may admonish herself▪ and that against her will, which were unreasonable, and senseless affirmations. Thirdly, for a kind of preaching, namely: that we call * Rom. 12. 6. prophesying, (and so of prayer for the sanctifying of it) that I affirm not to be so appropriated to the ministry, but that others having received a gift there unto, may and aught to stir up the same, and to use it in the Church, “ 1 Cor. 14. 3. for edification, exhortation, and comfort, though not yet called into the office of ministry, as hath been in part already, and now is more fully proved by these scriptures. Num. 11. 29. 2 Chron. 17. 7. jer. ●0. 4●. Math. 10. 1. 5. Luke 8. 39 & 10, 1. 2. 3— 9 joh. 4. 28, 29. 39 Act. 8. 1. 4. with 11. 19 20. 21. 1 Pet. 4. 10. 11. Rev. 11. 3. & 14. 6. And more specially, the Apostle 1 Cor. 14. doth of purpose, and at large handle this business, not only giving liberty unto, but laying charge upon all such (though not in office) as have received a spiritual gift, to exercise the same, in the ordinance of prophesying. Now for the better understanding of this point, it must be considered, that the Church of Corinth did abound with spiritual gifts, above an other Churches, both ordinary and extraordinary: which gifts of the spirit they did abuse too much unto faction, and ambition. Whereupon the Apostle takes occasion in the beginning of the 12. hap. and so forward, to direct them in the right use of these gifts of God, which was the employment of them to the edifying of the body in love: and therefore having▪ ch▪ 13. laid down a full description, and large commendation of that grace of love, in the 14▪ ch. & the beginning of it, he exhorts to prophesying, and to the study, and use of that gift▪ which though it were not so strange a thing, as was the suddayn gift of tongues, not which drew with it such wonder, and admiration, yet was it more profitable for the Church▪ and though a matter of less note, yet of greater charity, which must bear sway in all our actions. Against this scripture (though in itself most pregnant for the purpose in hand) two exceptions are taken. The one that the Apostle speaks of such persons only, as are in office, and so of their ordinary ministerial teaching: the other, that he speaks of such gifts, as were extraordinary, and so being ceased, that the ordinance as temporary, is ceased with them. But neither of these rubs, must turn us out of the way of truth, nor cause us to forbear this most excellent, and comfortable ordinance of the Lord jesus, wherein is to be seen, and heard the variety, and harmony of the graces of God, for the edifying of the Church, v. 4. and gaining of the unbelievers, v. 24. 25. That the Apostle in this Chapter directs the Church in the use of extraordinary gifts is most evident, neither will I deny, but that the officers are to guide, and order this action of prophesying, as all other public buesinesses, yea even these wherein the▪ brethren have greatest liberty, but that he also intends the establishing of, & so takes order, and giveth direction for an ordinary constant exercise in the Church, even by men out of office, I do manifest by these reasons. First, because the Apostle speaks of the manifestation of a gift, I. or grace, common to all persons, as well brethren, as ministers, ordinary, as extraordinary, and that at all times, which is love: as also of such fruits, and effects of that gaace, as are no less common to all, than the grace itself, nor of less continuance in the Churches of Christ, to wit of edification, exhortation & comfort. v. 3. compared with 1 Thes. 5. 11. 14. Secondly verse 21. he permits all to prophesy and speaks as largely II. of prophesying, as of learning, and receiving comfort. But now lest any should object may women also prophesy? the Apostle prevents that objection, and it may be reproves that disorder amongst the Corinthians, ver: 34. by a flat inhibition, enjoining them expressly to keep silence in the Church, in the presence of men to whom they ought to be subject, and to learn at home of their husbands, v. 35. and not by teaching the m●●, to usurp authority over them, 1 Tim. 2. 11. 12. which the men in prophesying do lawfully use. Now this restraint of women from prophesying, III. or other speaking with authority in the Church, both in this place to the Corinthians, and in the other to Tim: doth clear the two former objections. In that Paul forbids women, he gives liberty to all men gifted accordingly, opposing women to men, sex to sex, and not women to Officers, which were frivolous. And again in restraining women, he shows his meaning to be of ordinary not extraordinary prophesying, for women immediately, and extraordinarily, and miraculously inspired, might speak without restraint. FOUR Exo. 15. 20. judg. 4. 4. Luk. 2. 36. Act. 21. 17. 18. The Prophets here spoken of, were not extraordinary, because their doctrines were to be judged by other Prophets, and their spirits to be subject unto the spirits of others, v. 29. 32. where the doctrines of the extraordinary “ Ephe. 2. 20. & 3. 5. Prophets, were neither subject to, nor to be judged by any, but they, as the Apostles, being immediately, and infallibly inspired, were the foundation upon which the Church is built, jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone. The Apostle, vers. 37. makes a Prophet, and a man spiritual all V. one, whom he further describes, not by any extraordinary gift, but by that common Christian grace of submission unto the things he writes, as the commandments of the Lord. Unto whom also ver. 38. he opposeth a man wilfully ignorant: teaching us, that he doth not measure a Prophet in this place, either by the office of ministry, or by any extraordinary prophetical gift, but by the common christian gift of spiritual discerning. It is the commandment of the Lord by the Apostle, that * 1 Tim. 3. 2. a VI Bishop must be apt to teach, & that such † Tit. 1. 9 Elders or Bishops be called, as are able to exhort with sound doctrine, and to convince the gainsayers: Now except men before they be in office, may be permitted to manifest, their gifts, in doctrine, and prayer, which are the two main works requiring special qualification, in the teaching Elders, how Act. 6. 4. shall the Church (which is to choose them) take knowledge of their sufficiency, that with faith and good conscience, they may call them, and submit unto them, for their guides? If it be said, that upon such occasion, trial may be taken of men's gifts, I do answer, first, that men's gifts, and abilities▪ should be known in some measure, before they be once thought on, for officers: and 2. that there is none other use▪ or trial of those gifts▪ but in prophesying: for every thing▪ in the Lord's house is▪ to be performed in some ordinance, there is no thing thrown about the house, or out of order in it: and other ordinance in the Church, save this of prophesying, is there none, wherein men out of office are to pray, and teach, which therefore they ought to covet, v: 39 and in it to be exercised, and trained up, that when officers want, the Church may not need to set up men, as it were to play their prizes, nor send them like schoolboys to be posed, as your fashion in England is. And that minister, that is not called upon the Churches experimental knowledge of his sufficiency in these things, comes not in by the door, which Christ hath opened, nor may be accounted a true minister of Christ, and his Church. VII. Lastly, either men not yet in office (being accordingly qualified) may preach the truth of Christ, or it is not possible, that the people should be taught in lawful manner, either in nations universally heathenish, or universally apostate under Antichrist, before there be true Churches gathered, by which the officers are to be chosen: for as it is not very like that heathenish or antichristian priests will sincerely teach the truth, neither is it lawful for them to administer, or for any to join with them in their administrations, by virtue of any heathenish, or antichristian calling, or ordination▪ Rev. 14▪ 9 10. 11. 1 Tim. 5. 22. And howsoever the Church of England hath preferred a dumb, mass, and profane priesthood with a service-book before this ordinance, yet the truth of Christ is otherwise, and so the Church of Christ is taught to practise: which you also Mr B▪ might do well in modesty to acknowledge, though you want liberty to use it. XIII. I have insisted the longer upon this point, both for itself, and because it serveth effectually to prove the other point in hand. For if the brethren have liberty in this ordinance of prophecy, they have also liberty in the other ordinance of excommunication: for they are both of the same nature. Look to whom Christ gave the one key of doctrine, to them he gave the other key of discipline: and they that may handle the one, may have a finger upon the other: they that may bind & lose by doctrine, reproof, & comfort, they may also bind or loose by application of the same doctrine, reproof, or comfort to the person obstinate in sin, o● penitent for it. As the one of those doth necessarily establish the other, so take away either, and the other cannot stand. And here I gather an other argument against your exposition of Math: 18. Lastly, as the Elders principally to be employed in teaching, cannot XIIII. warrantably be chosen without good experience of their gift, and faculty, in prophecy, and prayer, so neither can they, which are chiefly to be employed in government, with good conscience of the Church, be called to that ministration, except they also have given, and the Church taken good proof of their ability, and simplicity in the discussing, and debating, carrying, and contriving of Church affairs, as also in admonition, exhortation, and comfort publicly occasioned, and so manifested. And a very presumptuous sin it is in any Church, to choose an officer, not thus trained up, and tried. Whereupon I conclude, that brethren, (though not in officer▪) have not their hands tied from meddling in the affairs of the Church, especially the censures, but are bound in their places to see to, and assist in the reformation of public scandals, and therefore are part of the Church, to which an offender is to be complained of▪ for only they are bound to see reformation of the evil, to whom the complaint is to be made, where Christ saith Tell the Church. It now remains we come to the other scripture, which Mr B. turns so lightly over, viz. 1 Cor. 5. which that we may aright understand for the present purpose two things must be considered: the one whereof is, what the Apostles scope is, and what he intends in that Chap: and the other what persons he interesseth in the business, about which he deals. The prelates with their obedient clergy, do constantly affirm, that the Apostle there reproves the Corinthians for not complaining to him of the incestuous person, that he might have censured him, and that he commands them (being now judged by him, as having the sole authority in his hands) to execute his sentence upon him; and this exposition Mr Bern. laboureth to confirm, pag. 92. 94. 98. We on the contrary affirm, that the Apostle in that scripture reproveth the Church of Corinth, or them, to whom he writes, for suffering (as they did) that wicked man uncast out, and that he now wills them to discharge that duty, wherein they had formerly failed in excommunicating him: to which he also gives his consent, going before them, as his duty was, in judging, and withal avouching his presence in spirit, that is in will, and consent, since he could not be bodily present with them. And that this is the Apostles meaning, it is much that any man reading the chapter with an honest heart, should deny. The arguments of proof, are manifest in the particulars. 1. They ought with sorrow to have put him out. v. 2. 13. 2. They were gathered together in the name of the Lord jesus, and were by the power of the Lord jesus, to deliver the offender to Satan for his humbling▪ that is, to cast him out of the Church into the world, where Satan reigns. v. 4. 5. 3. A little leaven leveneth the whole lump. v. 6. whereupon the Apostle (alluding to the ancient custom of * E●: 12. ●5. putting leaven out of the houses, when the Passeover was eaten) bids the Church purge out the old leven, (that is the incestuous man) that they might be a new lump. v. 7. showing therein, that they were soured, & become an old lump, in not purging him out, else what need they do any thing to become new? But here sundry things are objected by Mr Bernard. As first, ● book. pag. 229. that a man may be where leaven is, and yet not be leavened, if he take not leaven▪ If by taking leaven he mean, inclining or falling into the same sin, it is idle to imagine, that the whole Church was in any such danger of incest. Where 2. he adds▪ that a man reproving the offender, complaining of him, and seeking as he may in his place, reformation as Cloe did is not leavened, he colours with a few good words many fowl errors. First, that Cloe complained of the incestuous man, which was not so: she complained of the contentions amongst the Corinthians, 1 Cor. ●. 2. but that of the incestuous person was rather brought to Paul by common fame, then otherwise. 1 Cor. 5. 1. 2▪ That it is sufficient for the people, yea or the Ministers either to reprove an offender, & so to complain to the Bishop's court of him. 3. That a man is discharged if he seek reformation as he may in his place, whereas it is first required a man have such a place, or be in such a-Church, as is capable of God's ordinances, and wherein he may use the means for reformation, which Christ hath left: other wise his very place, and standing is not of God, nor may be by him continued. La●tly, where he saith, that the incestuous man had not leavened the Corinthians because Paul saith, ye are unlevened v. 7. it is an ill collection. For they were unlevened or sweet bread in their persons, that is sanctified by the spirit, but soured or leavened in the lump of communion, by suffering that wicked man uncensured: and the Apostles desire is, that that wicked man might be cast out of the society; that as they were severally pure, or in their persons, so the whole Church together, or mass might be pure, which before was polluted with his contagion. 4. The Corinthians had formerly been taught by Paul not to company or be commingled with fornicators, covetous persons, &c: that is▪ according to the drift of the whole Chapter, to cast them out, and so have neither spiritual, nor civil familiarity with them. ver. 9 & here he reproves them for failing in that duty. 5. They to whom Paul writ were to judge them that were within, & are charged to use that power in putting away from among themselves tha● wicked man. v: 12. 13. And thus the evidence for the first point is clear, that they to whom Paul writ & which were to be gathered together, were to be gathered into the name of Christ, by his power to bind or deliver to Satan the offender as Math: 18 18▪ 19▪ 20. were to purge out the old leven, not to be commingled with the ungodly, to judge them that were within, & to put away, & from among themselves the obstinately wicked. And it is most untruly, & unconscionably affirmed by this man Pag: 92. (as I have formerly observed) that all that can be gathered from this place, is that the censures are to be executed with the public knowledge of them that are gathered together. Now the 2. consideration is, who those persons are thus to be gathered together, upon whose shoulders the Apostle lays this duty of delivering to Satan, purging but, putting away, & judging this wicked man. And for this, I need no more than M B: own confession in the place before named, pag. 92. where he expressly affirmeth, that by them that there meet together, is meant the body of the Church▪ And though he, and all the world should deny it, yet would the truth of God stand: which I thus manifest. 1. They among whom the fornicator was, out of the midst of whom he was to be put, & which were puffed up, when they had rather cause of sorrowing, to them the Apostle writes, them he reproves, they were to be gathered together for the excommunicating, purging out, & judging the offender, v. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. And therefore the duty here enjoined, as well concorns the brethren as the officers, except we will say, the fornicator was only among, and in the midst of the officers, & to put from amongst them, and left amongst the people still, and that the officers only were puffed up, when they should have sorrowed, and not the brethren with them. 2. It concerned the people as well as the Priests in the type, & shadow, † Exo. 12. 15, 8. 15. to put away leaven out of their houses, & to keep the Passeover with unlevened bread: and so in the truth, and substance, to purge, and put out this leaven Paul speaks of, namely the incestuous person. v. 7▪ 8. 3. The Apostle admonisheth them, that were not to be commingled with fornicators▪ nor to eat with them: v. 9 10. 11. & this duty, I hope, as well concerned the brethren as the officers. 2● 4. They with whom Paul deals are commanded to put the 2● wicked man from among themselves v: 13. so that the same persons, from among whom he is to be put, are to put him away, which are both officers, & people. And so I conclude▪ that the rule prescribed by Christ, Math: 18. & the practice of the same rule commended by. Paul 1. Cor. 5. do severally▪ & jointly couple & combine together the Elders & people in th' 〈…〉ing of an offender, the officers going before, the brethren 〈…〉ng in their order, & the women lastly by silent consent, wherein the scriptures distinguish them from the men, 1 Cor: 14. 14. 1 Tim: 2. 12. To these things I will add in the last place the consideration of a scripture, to wit, a Cor: 2. 6. which M. B: & many others with him, think of force sufficient to dash in pieces all that hath been, or can be spoken for the brethren's liberty, & right in the forehandled business. But as I have formerly answered the objections, forced from this scripture against the truth I hold, so will I here set down one Argument or two, very pregnant, (except I be deceived) for the confirmation of it, from the same scripture, & the context thereof. 1. They whom the Apostle by his letter made sorry, for their failing I. in the casting out of the incestuous man, and that with a sorrow to repentance, manifesting itself, with great indignation & zeal, they were ●● reprove, and censure him, and so did, to his reformation, and their own clearing: which that it was not the case of the officers alone, but of the brethren with them, appears in these scriptures. 1 Cor. 5. 1. 2. with 2 Cor. 2. 5. 6. & 7. 8. 9 10. 11. 12. 2. Paul writes not only to the officers, but to the brethren as II. well as to them, to forgive or lose, to comfort & confirm their love toward the same person upon his repentance. 2 Cor. 2, 7. 8. therein plainly witnessing, that the brethren as well as the officers, had bound, rebuked, and manifested their indignation against the sin, and the person for it. Now this point in hand I will conclude with the observation of a practice yet continued, & in use in the Church of England, which is, that persons excommunicated for notorious sins, before they be absolved, are to do their penance (as they call it) in the parish Churches, whereof they are, and there to ask the whole Church forgiveness. Now I would know of you Mr B. whether the church have power to forgive the party's sin, (as men can forgive sin) yea, or no? If you say no, you discover the shame of your Church, thus profanely to take in vain the name of God, and to make a mock of Christ ordinances: if you answer affirmatively, than you grant the power of Christ to forgive, & to loose sins, & so consequently to reteyn, and bind them, to be in the body of the Church, for which I contend▪ The truth is, there is no such power in the parish assemblies, as now they stand, they can neither bind the sinner, nor rejoin his sin, be he to them never so impenitent: or lose him, and his sin; seem his repentance unto them never so full, and unfeigned▪ these knots are to be tied, and loosed, only by the chancellors, or Officials singers, this power have they enclosed with hedge, and ditch, and as things are judged at their tribunal, so must the captived Church take them, and will it, nill it, receive or refuse the party accordingly. The Prelates, and their substitutes have seized the substance, and kernel, as it were, into their hands, ●aving the poor people only the shell, and shadow to feed upon. And yet this very formal shadow still remaining in the Apostate assemblies, i● 〈◊〉 to bewray how substantial a power the Churches of Christ were possessed of in their constitution. This shell that remains shows where the 〈…〉 hath been. And as in this, so is it in sundry other paints: When the Bishop ordeynes a Minister, he bids him 〈…〉pel, though he have been his porter, & be known unable to read sensibly: he useth also th●s● words, t●ke thou authority 〈…〉▪ though it may be he is an 〈…〉 dread mil●● off (but never in th● place wherein he is to minister: he gives him charge also to monster, the 〈◊〉 of Christ●, as the Lord hath commanded, though he be but the Bishop's man's man to execute his judgements: which forms of speech, notwithstanding serve to show, what the Ministers ought to d●●, and where, and by whose election they ought to be appointed, though in truth they do, or be nothing less. And ●h●● God by his providence continueth unworn out in the degenerate assemblies, such steps, and s●adles, as may serve to shame them, by showing unto all that will see, how & where things have stood by Christ's appointment in his Church, which do also very well consort with the disposition of Antichrist, whose property is under a formal flourish for Christ to fight against him in his truth, and ordinances. Our ●. reckoned error is. Mr B. That the sin of one m●n publicly and obstinately stood in being not reform, nor the offender cast out, doth so pollute the wh●le congregation, that none may communicate with the same, in any of the holy things of God (though it be a Church rightly constituted) till the party be excommunicated. This Position thus set down I deny with Mr Ainsworth, though Answ. with him▪ and Mr Smyth, I do undertake the confirmation of that truth, which in his refutation Mr B▪ goes about to impugn. And that is that the whole communion in the Church of England, is so polluted▪ with profane, and scandalous persons; as that even in this respect alone, were there none other, there were just cause of separation from it. And to this purpose I will lay down a ground, upon which I do build whatsoever I speak in this point▪ which I entreat the reader h●re, and always to observe, and that is. He that fails in those duties for the reformation of the sin of an other, which the Lord 〈…〉 his hand, he is accessary to that other man's sin, and 〈…〉 own by connivency▪ 〈…〉 And this not only the scriptures▪ but e●e● common sense, and the light of nature do confirm. And upon this ground I deny your en●●neration of parts, in the case of pollution, to be sufficient. This strain comes more ways than you are aware of. A man may be polluted by, and guilty of the sin of another, though he neither in judgement ●●llow of ●●▪ nor in affection like it, nor practise the like▪ but the contrary▪ yea though he speak against it, discountenance it, and browbeat it, as you speak, when you teach your people to look big upon sin, where they dare not meddle with the reproving it: & do his best in his place to reclaim the sinner, (which are the preservatives you give against pollution) and that th●se ways. When a man doth not † 1 T●●●s. 5. 14. Heb. 3. 12. 13. & 10. 24. 25. consider or observe his brother as he● ●. ought, nor watch over him in the holy communion of saints wherein he is set, and which the Lord hath established for this end, that he might be honoured in the communion, and fellowship of saints. And it is a saying only becoming 1 Ioh 3. 12. CAIN, and those that are with him of that wicked one, † Gen. 4. 9 am I my brother's keeper 〈…〉 Thus than a man may be guilty of the sin of an other▪ yea though ●● be utterly ignorant of it. And thus, it is like, was * ●●● 7. 1. 4, 5▪ ●●. 11. 12▪ ●●●6. & 22, 2●. all Israel guilty of▪ 〈…〉, in the excommunic●●● thing▪ who th' 〈…〉 are ●●a●g●d by the Lord to have committed as●●, and to have 〈◊〉▪ and 〈◊〉▪ and were punished by the Lord for the same, and deprived of ●●● pr●s●●●● till the excommunicate, or execrable thing were destroyed from among them. A 2. case of pollution is the neglect of admonition for the reformation II. of the offender, according to the order and degrees by Christ himself set down, secret and betwixt the offended, and offender, if the sin be of secret practice, and nature: privately, & with a witness, or two, in the second place: publicly in the last place by complaint made unto the Church having the power of Christ for excommunication. Lev: 19 17. Mat. 18. 15. 16. 17. There is yet a 3. duty and that is separation, whereof you also III. Mr B. in sundry cases do admit. pag. 105. and to which the Lord in the scriptures calls his people for the shaming of obstinate rebellious offenders, Rom. 16. 17. 2 Cor. 6. 14. 15. 16. 17. 1 Tim. 6. ●. the neglect whereof casts both the guilt of the sin, & condemnation of the sinner, upon him that neglects it. So that a man is not only bound in his place to do his best for the reclaiming of his brother, but to see his place be such as wherein he may orderly discharge the duties of admonition, otherwise both his practice, and place are unlawful. And you yourself will teach your people this truth in the general, that the place, or calling absolutely tying a man to the breach of any of God's commandments, is unlawful, and to be forsaken. Now this is your very case, and the case of the best in your Ch:, (the Lord open your eyes you may see it, and give you hearts to make a right use of it.) As there are in your parish whom you dare not admonish secretly, much less with a witness, or two, so (which is the last and chiefest remedy) you cannot make complaint to the Church: your Church is not furnished with Christ's power to take vengeance upon disobedience: you are utterly unfurnished of the weapons of this warfare. Great was the slavery of the Israelites under the Philistims, when “ 1 Sam. 13 22. there was not a sword found amongst them, in the day of battle: far greater, and more to be bewailed, is your spiritual slavery under the Philistim, and Egyptian Lords, the prelates, which have spoiled you of all, and left you unarmed, for the Lords battle. You know well Mr B. that the Official is not the Church & so do thousands in England with you. For all whom, how much better were it, & more agreeable to true godliness, to renounce such unsanctifyed places, and standings, wherein they do in avoydably day, by day, steyn themselves with so many impieties of their brethren (as though their own personal sins were too few) by sailing in this most necessary duty, laid by the Lord himself upon every brother for the reformation of his brother, then to plead, they do the best they can in their places, to reclaim them? It will not be sufficient for men suffering themselves to be tied short in the chains of Antichristian bondage from the performance of this necessary duty, at the day of the Lord, when men shall appear to have perished through their fault, which might have been gained by their admonition, Mat. 18. 15. to say they have done what they could within the reach of their chain. But let all them that fear the Lord, and his righteous judgements, & which have hearts tenderly affected with the conscience of the duty they owe unto their brethren, and to whom the liberty purchased with the blood of Christ seemeth precious, break asunder those chains of unrighteousness, those bonds of Antichrist, and come out of Babylon, and plant their feet in those pleasant paths of the Lord, wherein they may make straight steps unto him, walking in that light, and liberty, which Christ hath so dearly purchased for them. But for separation from a Church rightly constituted, or from a true Church (so remaining) I do utterly disclaim it. For there is but ‘† Eph. 4. 4. v. 5. one body, the Church, and but one Lord, or head of that body, Christ: and whosoever separates from the body, the Church, separates from the head, Christ, in that respect. But this I hold that if iniquity be committed in the Church, and complaint, and proof accordingly made, and that the Church will not reform, or reject the party offending, but will on the contrary maintain presumptuously, & abet such impiety, that then by abetting that party & his sin, she makes it her own by imputation, & enwrapps herself in the same guilt with the sinner. And remaining irreformable, either by such members of the same Ch:, as are faithful, (if there be any) or by other sister Churches, wipeth herself out the Lords Church-rowl, and now ceaseth to be any longer the true Church of Christ. And whatsoever truths, or ordinances of Christ, this rebellious rout still reteynes, it but usurps the same, without right unto them, or promise of blessing upon them, both the persons and sacrifices are abominable unto the Lord. Tit. 1. 16. Prov. 21. 27. Now if any object the Church of the jews, and the obstinacy thereof in sin, and wickedness, which was a true Church notwithstanding: it must be considered, that no Church in the world I. now, hath that absolute promise of the Lords visible presence, which that Church then had, till the coming of Christ, Gen. 47. 10. & 17. 7. Exod. 19 43. 44. 45. II. It was simply necessary the Messiah should be borne in the true Church, wherein he might have communion, and fulfil the law. Math. 5. 17. Luk. 2. 21. 22. 23. 29. The Lord did ever afford the jews, even in their deepest III. apostasy, some or other visible signs of his presence, and those even extraordinary, when ordinary failed: thereby declaring himself still to remember his promise made to their forefathers, & ever and anon by some godly King, Prophet, or Priest, or (if these would not serve) by some severe correction, destroying from amongst them the chiefest rebels, brought them to repentance, & caused them to pass a new into his covenaunt, as hath formerly been declared. But with us it is otherwise. No Church now can expect, or doth enjoy such extraordinary privileges. But if it depart from the Lord by any transgression, and therein remain irrepentant, I. after due conviction, and will not be reclaimed, it man feasts unto us, that God also hath left it, and that, as the Church by her sin hath separated from, and broken covenant with God so God by leaving her in hardness of heart with but repentance, hath on his part broken, and dissolved the covenant also. II. The Lord jesus threatens the † Church's, for leaving their first love, R●v. 2. 4. Ca 3. 16 and for their lukewarmness, that he will come against them speedily, & remove there candlestick, that is dischurch them, except they repent; & spew them as loathsome out of his mouth. There is the same reason, in due proportion, of one member III. sinning, of a few, of many, and of a whole Church, now if a brother sin, and will not be reclaimed by the ordinary means. appointed by Christ for that purpose, he is to be accounted no longer a brother, but an heathen, & publican, Math. 18. 17. so is it with two or three brethren, with a few, with many, or with the whole Church, though there be a different order of dealing: for the multitude of sinners doth no way lessen or extenuate the sin either in the eyes of God or men, Pa●. 171. 572. 173. of your 2. book. Now for your arguments. In handling whereof I will also take in such of your score of Reasons against pollution, as are worthy consideration. First you say, under the law there was a sacrifice for all manner of pollutions, Mr Ber. but none for this, and therefore it is no sin. It is not so, for 1. if a man polluted his hands with innocent Answ. blood by murder, or his body with adultery, or wrought any other wickedness punishable by death, there was (that I find) no particular sacrifice for it. 2. The people of * Ezek. 44. 6. 7. 9 Israel were guilty of the pollution of the Lords house, by bringing, or suffering to come, into his sanctuary, strangers either uncircumcised in flesh, or in heart: and so there was an †‘ Lev. 16 15. 16. 20. 20. 33. 34. offering to be made once a year for the purging of the holy place, and Tabernacle, for the cleansing of the Altar, & to be an atonement for the Priests and for all the people of the congregation. 3. The pollution I speak of coming only by neglect of some duty for the reformation of a brother, cannot be denied to be sin, and with other pollution meddle I not. The godly people were never reproved for being at the ministration of Mr B. holy things though wicked men were there. We grant it in the true Church, but deny a company of impenitent Answer. sinners to remain the true Church, being to the judgement of men, unrecoverable. Yea if but one have committed the evil notoriously scandalous and the rest so tolerate him, that * 1 Cor. 5. 6. little leaven levens the whole lump, and with † Ex. 12. 15 leaven must not the Passeover be eaten in any case. And here Mr Bernard your cavilling ‘* 2 book p. 210. Reply upon Mr Ainsworth, speaking of the whole Church, & all the assembly, is answered. The Corinthians might as well have eluded, and put of Paul's argument, and reproof, as you Mr Ainsworths': for Paul speaks of the whole lump, as Mr Ainsworth doth of the whole Church. And surely if two or three officers be the whole Church that hath the power of Christ to judge & censure offenders as you say, the whole lump might soon be leavened, and the whole Church plead for open iniquity. The Prophets did not separate themselves though they cried out against Mr B. wickedness, Isa. 1. 4. 5. 6. 9 10. etc. Both the Prophets, Priests, and people that were godly did separate Answ. from Apostate Israel in jerboams' time, which we take to be 1 King. 11. 29. 30. 31. 32, 33. 2 Chro. 11. 14. 16. your estate in a great measure, considering your worship, holy days, priesthood, & government. But for jerusalem & the Church there, the case is otherwise. Touching which I desire these two Rules may be born in mind. First that there was that one only visible Church upon the face I. of the earth, tied to one temple, altar, sacrifice, priesthood, in one place, & that no man could absolutely separate from that Church, but he must separate from the visible presence, and from all the solemn public worship of God. Secondly that the jewish Church had not that distinct ecclesiastical II. ordinance of excommunication, which we now have, but that the obstinate or presumptuous offender was by bodily death to be cut of from the Lords people, the same persons namely the whole nation being both Church, and common wealth, according to that special dispensation of those times. Whereupon it followeth, first, that since absolute separation from the jewish Church was unlawful, communion with it was lawful: and 2. that since the Church had not the power to cast out an offender, it was no pollution unto them to suffer him amongst them, so they discharged, such other duties, as were enjoined them, by the Lord. But it is now otherwise: the times are altered and the dispensations of them. Every place where a company of faithful people are gathered into Christ's name, is mount Zion, & hath the promise of God's presence: and separation from one Church remaining uncurable may be made into another. And as separation may be from a Church, so may excommunication be of person, obstinately wicked. And these two Rules, rightly applied will (as I am persuaded) satisfy the scriptures and reasons brought by Mr. B. here and both by him, and others else where, from the old testament, and the unpolluted communion of the servants of God in the jewish Church. The other scriptures I will briefly pass over. Tit. 1. 15. shows, that all the creatures of God are pure to the pure. I grant it, and his ordinances also. But ever provided, in their lawful, and right use, which in a profane and unsanctified communion they are not. By your exposition Mr Bernard, a godly man might eat the Lords supper with haeretiques, excommunicates, yea Turks or Pagans, if they would, and yet all should be pure to him. Of the 2. and 3. chap. in the Revelation, I have spoken formerly, and there proved that the Churches were polluted by the toleration of wicked persons amongst them, and therefore reproved, neither is it material, if the scriptures do not expressly tax the whole Church for connivency every time they rebuked some persons in it. It is sufficient they do it in some places, and in some Churches: there is the same reason of all, neither hath one Church privilege above an other, or for one sin, more than an other. And this also may serve for answer to the 2. & 3. of your twenty Reasons in your 2. book. Only you must take knowledge pag. 1● 1. of your▪ gross oversight in the latter reason, where the question being of the true matter of the Church, you bring in Noah in the old world, & L●t in Sodom unpolluted, as though the world, and Sodom had been true matter of the Church, & Noah and Lot of the same religious communion with them. The like ignorance you show in the 8. Reason, where you demand why the fellowship in civil society should not be polluted, as well as religious communion. As though you had never read that † 1 Cor. 7▪ 14. the unbelieving husband is sanctified to the believing wife for civil society, which is no way dissolved, no not though the one party be a Turk, jew, or Atheist. And do you think Mr B. that religious communion may be held with such without pollution? In the next scripture which is Gal. 5. 10. the Apostle no way acquits the Church of transgression, but speaks under hope of their repentance, which they were to manifest by avoiding & cutting off such as had troubled, and seduced them, Gal. 1. 8. 9 and 5. 12. In Mat. 5. 24. 25. Christ commands that before a man offer his gift he reconcile himself unto his brother. True, but where hatred is, there is no holy reconciliation: and where brotherly admonition is not, and that to the reformation of the brother offending, there is hatred, as is manifest▪ Lev. 19 17. And if you would improve to the right use this scripture, it would drive you and others from your Corban, till you had discharged the duties of mercy to your brethren, which the Lord accepts above sacrifice. Touching 1 Cor. 11. which is the next scripture, I will speak Mr B. something more largely, because Mr B. thinks it most pregnant for the deciding of the controversy, for that the Apostle speaking purposely of the pollution of the sacrament, bids every man examine himself, and not one an other, and that under pain of eating damnation to himself, and not to an other, if he come not reverently, notwithstanding there was much evil in the Church. And is it so in deed, that, because men must examine themselves, Answ. therefore not others? what warrant then have you for your Eastershrift, your examining the people before they communicate? You I hope, are to examine yourself, as well as others. And might not your people tell you out of your own book, that you have nought to do to examine them? Might not the meanest of them say unto you, examine yourself, if I▪ eat and drink unworthily, it shallbe mine own damnation not yours? Yea might not any ungodly person thus answer either officer, or brother, that should reprove him either publicly, or privately? This indeed is the common fashion in the Church of England, and nothing more common: and it is a received rule, that every man shall answer for himself, and every tub stand upon his own bottom▪ and brotherly admonition is accounted by the most but a precise curiosity of busy-headed people. And in this you confirm them, by your collection: teaching the offenders * Zach. 7. 11. 12. to pull away the shoulder, and to stop the ●are, that they might not hear, to make the heart hard, as an adamant stone. You do then err Mr Bern. in expounding 1 Cor. 11. 18. exclusively. It doth not follow, that because I am bound to examine myself, therefore not my brother, that is, not to observe him, admonish him, & bring him to repentance for apparent sin, for of such an examination we only speak, leaving to a man's self the examination of the heart, and of things secret. You may as well argue thus. We are to save ourselves, Act. 2. 40. to speak unto ourselves in psalms, etc. Ephe. 5. 19 to teach and admonish ourselves, Col. 3. 16. to comfort ourselves, 1 San. 30. 6. to edify ourselves, jud. 20. and therefore neither to save, nor to speak to, nor to teach, nor to admonish, nor to comfort, nor to aedify others: which is contrary to these, amongst many other scriptures. jud. 23. 1 Thes. 4. 18. & 5. 11. 14. Furthermore you yourself pag. 120. of this book, make (and that truly) the Lord's supper a testimony of that▪ visible communion of love amongst the members. Except than there be that love, which is there testified, the Lords ordinance is profaned, and his name taken in vain. Now where admonitions are not for the purging, gaining, humbling, and saving of the the offender, Mat. 18. 15. 1 Cor. ●. 5. & 2. 6. 7. there is not true love, but hatred, Levit. 19 17. And that true spiritual love required in the members of Christ's body should be betwixt the servants of God, & notorious profane persons, either way, passeth both mine understanding, & affections. And to conclude this point, I would but desire you Mr B. to read the marginal note given in your authorized Bible▪ printed at London 1603. upon the 31. verse of this Chapter. And thus you see how pregnant this scripture is to decide the contreversie, and to determine against you, that except reformation of sin be orderly sought, and seasonably obtained, there can be no right or lawful communion in the Lord's supper. And Paul in writing as he doth, provokes as every man specially to look to himself, so the whole Church together to see the reformation of the disorders amongst them. ver. 17. 18. 33. 34. Lastly for 2 Cor. 12. 11. it must be considered that the case was depending, and in hand concerning such as had sinned and not repent, and as the issue of things should be, so were the godly to carry themselves towards them: if they would be drawn to repentance, by admonition, they were to forgive them as 2 Cor. 2. 7. if not, the Church was bound to judge, and cut them of, whether Paul came, or no. 1 Cor. 5. 11. 12. 13. Wherein if they failed, God would punish their carnal security and want of zeal, as he threateneth. Rev. 3. 14. 16. 19 To proceed, where you affirm that our position insinuates, that Mr. B. the sin of one dissolves the b●nd of allegiance between God, and another, it it is no thing so. The sin, and apostasy of others can no way hinder, Answ. or prejudice our salvation, or standing with God, if we discharge our duty towards them. But here is the oversight, that men consider not, that, as God hath commanded men to worship him, receive the sacraments, and to use other his ordinances, so he hath also called, and separated unto himself a Church, a communion, or fellowship of saints, and holy ones, in & amongst which those holy things are to be used, Psal. 147, 19 Rom. 3. 2. & 9 4. and that we are as well to look in what fellowship, and communion we receive the holy things of God▪ as what the things are we do receive. And as in the natural body there must first be a natural union of the parts with the head, and one with an other, before there can be any▪ action of natural communion either between the head, and the members, or one member, and an other: so in this spiritual body▪ the Church, the members must first be united with Christ the head▪ and become one with him, before they can any way partake in his benefits, o● have communion with him, either in the merits or virtue of his death, and obedience, joh. 15. 2. 4. 5. Rom. 8. 1. as also one with an other, as members of the same body, under him the head, before they can communicate in their works, or operations. Communion in works, and actions, doth necessarily presuppose union of persons. And if it be true which Mr B. labours so much to justify, both in his “ pag. 104. 105. 106. 107. former, and * pag. 171. 172. 173. 174. latter writing, that a man is only to look to his own person, that it be holy, and to the thing in hand, that it be commanded of God, and that it matters not, to how unholy a society this holy person adjoins himself, in the communion of this holy thing, then may ●e lawfully repute, and acknowledge an assembly of atheists, haeretiques, and idolaters (though as the assembly gathered, Mark. 5. 9) usurping the holy things of God, for the temple of the living God, and for his * 2 Cor: 6. 16. 18. sons and daughter●, among whom he doth dwell, and walk there. There may he call upon God, as their common father, and say with faith, as Christ hath taught his discipls, † Mat. 6. 9 our father; there may he have “ 1 Cor. 11 1●. 17. communion in the body and blood of Christ, as with the members of Christ. But the Lord jesus in teaching his Church, with one heart, and voice, to say our father, hath established an other brotherhood: & in † Mat. 26. 26. 27. giving his body and blood to be eaten, and drunken of all, in communion, hath knit in one an other society. The Apostle writing unto the Church of 1 Cor. 11. 16. 17. Corinth, compares the whole Church to a man's body, and the persons in the one, to the members of the other, viz▪ to the head, 1 Cor. 1●. foot, ●y, ear, hand, and other parts: and endeavouring purposely to draw them to the right use of those spiritual gifts, wherewith they abounded, without contempt, or envy, he shows that all have need▪ and use, each of others, the head of the foot, the hand of the eye, and so mutually one of an other, and that without the help each of other, neither could consist. Now since every part stands need of other, even the head, the chiefest, of the feet the meanest, doth it not concern the head to consider what a foot it hath? the ey to see what an hand it hath? and so every member to forecast, that it be coupled with such other members in this body mystical, as may not fail it in the time of need? * Eccles. 4. 9 10. Woe be to him that is alone (saith the wise man) for if he fall there is not a second to lift him up, but if two be together the one will lift up his fellow, if he fall. And how behoveful both for the comfort, and safety of the several members, and whole body it is, that jointly and severally, all, and every part be so fitted and furnished, as they may faithfully discharge their duties, and afford their service upon occasion, and as need stands, and how great not only the discomfort, but the danger is, when there is a failing this way, both the word of God and common reason, and every man's own experience will teach him. Whereupon I conclude, that it concerns every man as first, and most, to look to his own person, and to consider how things stand betwixt God and himself, so in the next place to take heed he join himself in such a communion, as wherein he may with comfort call upon God as a common father, and partake in his ordinances by a common right to him, & the rest: & that being so joined, he fail not the body, or any member of it, as there is need of his help, & service, otherwise Mr B. reasons will not bear him out, no not though for scores, he put hundreds, which being compared with the scriptures, and grounds from them formerly laid down, will appear to be the very froth of his own lips, neither solid, nor savoury. Next Mr B. reduceth to certain heads such places of scripture, as Mr. B. forewarn God's people to separate themselves, and that first under the law, as 1. from Idols of false Gods, as Israel from Egyptian, Babylonish, or heathenish Gods, and Idolaters dwelling about them. 2. From Idols of the true God, as judah from Israel in jeroboams time, and after. 3. From persons ceremonially polluted. In the time of the gospel. 1. From jews not receiving Christ, but railing against him. 2. From Gentiles without Christ. 3. From Antichrist under the show of Christ, persecuting Christians. 4. From familiarity private with men excommunicate, or of lewd life, etc. which places, you say, no way concern you at all, and so you give a very ample testimony of yourselves, if we durst believe your words, against our own knowledge. Your first head I let pass, and in answer unto your second, affirm Answ. thus much▪ that in your constitution, you are partly, as the Egyptians, in respect of your bondage: partly, as the Babylonians, in respect of your confusion: and partly as jeroboams Church, in respect of your Apostasy in your devised priesthood, sacrifices, and holy days: the Lord having appointed no such Ministry, as your priesthood, no such sacrifice as your service book, no such holy days, as your single, and double feasts: which you have forged of your own hearts. Touching separation from persons ceremonially polluted, it must be considered, that ceremonies have their signification, and shadows their substance. The ceremony than was, that, † Numb. 19 13. 22. Lev. 15. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10. 11. 19 20. 21. etc. whosoever touched a dead person, or a person, or thing unclean, was unclean: & whom, or whatsoever the unclean persontouched, that person, or thing was unclean: so that a person unclean did not only pollute the thing he touched to himself, as Mr B. would have it, but to others also: whosoever touched the thing that he touched, was polluted by it. What is then the substance of these ceremonies? Who is now a leper, but he which hath the leprosy of sin arising in his forehead? Who hath an issue of blood upon him, but he in whose soul, and body the issue of sin runneth unstopped? Who is the dead person now that may not be touched without pollution, but he that is dead in trespasses, and in sins? And who toucheth such an unclean person, if he that becomes, and remains one body with him, by spiritual communion, and a member of him, touch him not? Rom. 12. 4. 5. 1 Cor. 10. 16. 17. & 12. 12. 13. Thirdly, if separation be lawful from persons not receiving Christ, but railing against him, then is communion unlawful with any assembly in the land, wherein there are many, which remain in unbelief as their works declare, jam. 2. 20. and so receive not Christ. joh. 1. 12. but do on the contrary both revile and persecute him in his graces, servants, and ordinances: howsoever for fear or fashion, they be content to be accounted Christians. Now for separation from Gentiles without Christ, & from Antichrist, under a show of Christ, persecuting Christians, as the scriptures do account of antichristianism, as of haethenism in this respect, calling it * Rev. 11. 8. and 14. 8 & 18. ●. 4. Babylon, Sodom, Egypt spiritually, and so warning the Lords people to come out of it: so for the second point, I do not yet believe, whatsoever you write, but you Mr Bernard, are as verily persuaded as myself, that the Church of Engl. formally considered in her laws, & canons ecclesiastical, contrived, & executed by the prelate's, & their substitutes, doth persecute Christians under a show for Christ. That the Bishops make a show for Christ, all grant: and that they persecute true Christians, let your prisons be searched, and there will want no records: and if you yet will pass by the poor brethren of the separation, as the Priest, and Levite did the wounded man, which had fallen among thieves, Luk. 10. and will take no knowledge of us, ask your own brethren, the godly Ministers, with whose supply against us, you back your book, and I doubt not, but the suspensions, and deprivations of the most of them for refusing the Prelate's badges, and liveries, the surplice, tippet, and the like, will testify with us the persecutions of the Antichristian Praelacy, against Christians. The separation you admit of in the last place is from familiar accompanying in private conversation with men excommunicate, or of lewd life worthy to be excommunicate, when neither religion commandeth, etc. What Mr B. ought men to avoid familiarity with excommunicates only in private conversation, and not both in the private, and public worship of God? Is there any religious familiarity, or communion save in the Church, out of which excommunicates are cast? The jews had no religious communion at all with heathens▪ or persons † Ezek. 44. 7 9 uncircumcised, which therefore might not enter into the sanctuary of the Lord, though you be driven in answer to Act. 21. 28. 29. to affirm they might. 2 book pag. 175. and as such, must we account them, that refuse to hear the Church. Mat. 18. 17. And as no religious communion either private, or public, may be held with persons justly excommunicated by the Church, so neither with such lewd persons, as deserve excommunication, and are thereof clearly convinced, though the Church want grace to cast them out. The Churches ungodly connivency, & upboulstring them in their scandalous sins, makes them nothing the better, but itself in truth like unto them, as * Deut. 7. 26. josh. 7. he that brought a thing abominable into his house, was accursed like it: how much more, if he either bring it into, or keep it in God's house? And how we are to avoid persons incorrigibly wicked, whether idolaters, Haeretiques, or profane livers, (the common bonds of natural, and civil society ever kept inviolated) which as they are to the Lord, so ought they to be unto us abominable) see these scriptures, Act. 2. 40. 47. & 19 19 Rom. 16. 17. 1 Cor. 5. 11. 2 Cor. 6. 14. 15. 16. 17. Gal. 1. 8, 9▪ 1 Tim. 6. 3. 4. 5. 2 Tim. 3. 2. 3. 4. 5. Tit. 3. 10. which places do not only forbid private and voluntary familiarity, as you speak, and affirm, but religious also (to which you unskilfully oppose voluntary, where no society is so voluntary, as that which is religious) and that both private and public. Neither is there any reason, whither we respect the glory of God, or our own safety, or the avoiding of offence in others, or the shaming of the parties why we should avoid civil communion with any, and yet hold religious communion with them. To conclude, since the Lord willbe glorified by his people, not only severally, and in their persons, but jointly, & in their holy communion, and hath given them in charge to exhort, comfort, admonish, & reprove one an other, as there is cause, and in the order he hath prescribed, as also according to the same order, to sequester, censure, reject, and avoid persons incorrigible, and infectious, the brother or brethren failing in these duties, are stained, and polluted, not by other men's sins (which can no way hurt them, or the holy things they use, save to themselves) but by their own swerving, and neglect, from, and of, such duties, as wherein they are to acquit themselves, in their most strait, and sacred bond of communion. Only before I end, I must touch one point of deep divinity set down by Mr B. Mr Bern. for the purpose in hand: which is, that the Lord takes a people to be 2. book. p. 176. his, before he command them: and that commandments are for his people to rule them, not to make them his people. But how agrees this (to let pass his former book) with that Answ. which he not only writes, but substantially proves, pag. 277. of his second, that, when the L. sets up a people to be his people, first he gives them his word, which is his ordinance to make them his people, his power to subdue them, the means of reconciling them, that, by which he extols a people above other people? Well Mr B. (to let pass your inconsiderate lightness in those weighty matters, wherein you exceed Mr Smyth, for that, where he confutes one book by an other, you confute yours by itself, in an other place) howsoever your national Church were not made the Lords people by his commandments, but by the commandments, precepts, and proclamations of men, yet would the L. jesus have his Churches gathered, and men made his people, by the publishing, & preaching of his commandments, wherewith he furnished his Apostles for the making of disciples, by the knowledge, faith, and obedience of them. Mat. 28. 19 20. The ●. error laid to our charge is, our holding, That every one of their assemblies, are false Churches. If one of them be, then are they all, for they are all, and every one of them cast in the same mould? We profess we put a great difference betwixt person, and person amongst you, and do not doubt (God forbid we should) but there are hundreds, and thousands amongst you, having assurance of saving grace, and being partakers of the life of God, in respect of your persons: but considering you in your Church-communion, & ordinances, we cannot so difference you, but must testify against your apostasy, as we do. And let it not be grievous unto you, Mr B. or unto any other, that in this regard, we speak thus generally and alike of you all, without exception: for even your own Church intendeth you all, and every one of you alike, without exception: as appeareth, in that it appointeth one set service in so many words to be said, by all, and every Minister, to all, and every parish, & person in it. It appoints one set form of words, wherein all persons, without exception, must be married, all women without exception after childbearing, purified: all children born in the kingdom baptised, all sick persons visited, and all dead persons buried without exception. How shall we then sever you in the things, wherein you join yourselves? or put a difference where yourselves put none? And where further (as loath to let fall the plea of the wicked) you Mr B. do add, that God called Israel his people after defection, and their children in respect of circumcision his children. Ezech. 16. 21. 22. I answer, first, Answ. that the Lord did not call them his children in respect of circumcision (for the “ Gen. 34. 24. Scechemitcs were circumcised, and yet were not God's people, not their children his children) and 2. that the Prophet speaks of the first born, which by right did in a special manner appertain to the Lord, Exod. 13. 2. though he were most injuriously defrauded of his due. Where you proceed and say, that some in the Mr. B. Acts, 19 2. which were ignorant of the holy Ghost, were called believers, that is too grossly applied to the ordinary gifts of the holy Ghost, Answ. which is meant of such extraordinary visible gifts, as wherewith God did for a time beautify the Church, which these persons also there spoken of, did afterwards receive by imposition of hands by Paul, vers. 6. For the Churches of Corinth, and Pergamus, with whose corruptions as with a buckler, you would cover yourselves, it must be remembered, that they, and every person in them, were in their constitution, separated by voluntary profession into covenaunt with the Lord, and did with their covenant receive power and charge to reform such evils, as might break out amongst them, which if they neglected, they broke covenant with God, and so forfeited, on their part, both their covenant, and power, provoking the Lord, if they repented not to break with them, & shortly to remove their candlestick out of his place. Rev. 3. ●. That which you add the last, and in deed the worst of all the rest, is, that the Church of Christ, is set out even by the naming, that Mr B. is by the profession of the name jesus Christ. Rom. 15. 20. But the Apostle intends no such matter, but only to magnify Answ. his Apostleship by this amongst other the notes of it, that he had preached the gospel, where before there had been no sound of it. And if the naming of jesus Christ set out a Church, then are the Papists (besides other haeretiques) a true Church, for they name jesus Christ, as oft as you, and with as many courtesies. But things are best discerned in their particulars, and to them Mr B. you descend, saying, that that congregation which is false, hath a false head, false matter, false form, and false properties, which (say you) cannot be avouched against our congregations. And what if but some of these be false, and not all? To make Answ. a thing true must concur all the essential parts, and properties: but to make it false, there needs not be all false, some few will do it. For the particulars. You have no false head, because you hold jesus Christ, and worship Mr B. no other God, but the Trinity in unity. The Papists also worship the Trinity in unity, and in word, and Answ. in the general, confess Christ their head: and you in deed, and in the particulars, many of them do deny his headship. Christ is the head only of his body, Col. ●. 17. But the body of Christ consists not of the limbs of Satan, of which your national Church was for the most part gathered, & compact, after the general apostasy of Antichrist, and of such it consists at this day: except you will deny that they are the limbs of Satan * 2 Cor. 4. 4 the eyes of whose minds he bl●ndeth, that the light of the gospel should not shine in them: † joh. 8. 44 which do the lusts of the devil, and are his children: which “ 1 Ioh 3. 8 commit sin: which persecute the godly, and *‘ Rev. 2. 10. cast in prison the servants of Christ. Now tell me not, Mr Bern. of the wicked persons in the Churches of Corinth, Thiatyra, and the rest; for these Churches were not gathered of any such outwardly, and so appearing: it is blasphemy against the Apostles so to affirm: and if any appearing such were afterwards suffered, it was a ●anker in the Churches which in time ate out the hearts of them. As therefore the Papists make the Church a monstrous body, in setting two heads over it, Christ, & the Pope; so do you make Christ a monstrous head, in uniting unto him members of so contrary a nature. And let the profane world make as small account of it, as they list; it is certain, no false doctrine, heresy, or Idolatry can more either displease, or dishonour God, and his Christ, then wretched men, in word professing his truth, and name, and in deed denying both him, and them. Further you have not Christ the head of your Church in the administration of his prophetical, priestly, and kingly office: which I will only point at▪ referring the reader to such other treatises, as do more fully confirm these things, & in special to Mr Ainsworth his arguments disproving the present estate & constitution of the Church of England; against which his plain proofs your idle exceptions Mr Ber. willbe as easily answered, as read. First then, your Church admitteth not of the ordinance of prophesying, I. or teaching out of office, Rom. 12. 6. 7. which as I have formerly proved to be a perpetual ordinance for the Church, so how profitable it is, both for the edification of them within, and conversion of them without, we find by experience, and the scriptures declare▪ 1 Cor. 14. 3. 24. 25. 2. You silence the Lord jesus in your Church from revealing II. the whole will of his father. A part of his word is utterly excluded by your calendar, & may not so much as be read in your Church, but is justled out by the Apocrypha writings: a greater part even the most of that which concerns the true gathering, and governing of the visible Church, though it may be read, yet may it not be faithfully taught, much less obediently practised: notwithstanding any charge of the Prophets, Apostles & Christ himself. Deu. 29. 29. Math. 28. 19 20. Rom. 16. 25. 26. 2 Tim. 3. 16. 17. so that though you have the whole will of God in your books, as Papists have, yet in respect of the doctrine, and obedience of a great part of it, the book is sealed up, and may not be opened. And to make up the measure, you have in stead of the canonical scriptures of the holy Ghost, mens Apocrypha scriptures, the books of homilies, and that of common prayers, your popish canons, and constitutions, (which are as well the doctrine of your Church, as the canons of the Tridentine council are the doctrine of the Church of Rome) and (if you will) in stead of Prophets to teach, your significant ceremonies, the cap, surplice, cross, tippet, which are neither dark, nor dumb, but apt to stir up the dull mind of man to the remembrance of his duty to God, by some notable signification. Here is dross for silver, and for the finest wheat, chaff. Lastly your Prophets which administer that part of Christ's prophecy, III. or of the scriptures, which may be taught, and practised amongst you▪ have neither the true office of ministry, which Christ hath prescribed, nor a lawful calling to that they have: as hath been in part noted from Ephe. 4. and is else where clearly evinced. Now Christ's priestly office you do corrupt, and profane unsufferably, whether we respect the persons, or things whereof you make him a mediator. Are those Atheists, and ungodly persons, wherewith you confess I. in the beginning of your book, your Church is full, and which if you should deny, heaven and earth would witness against you, are they I say, their souls, and bodies, those * Rom. 12. 1. & 15. 16 lively, holy, and acceptable sacrifices, and offerings sanctified by the holy Ghost? Are those devised, printed, and stinted collects, read out of II. your human service-book, the † Rom. 8. 26. 27. spiritual sacrifices of prayer, and thanksgiving, which the spirit of God teacheth the sons of God to offer, the fruits and calves of the lips which confess his name? 1 Cor. 12. 7 Is that constrained payment of a weekly, or monthly rate, and III. assessment for the poor (more fitly called a malevolence, for the Heb. 13. 15 Hos. 14. 3. ill will it is paid with, than a benevolence) that * 2 Cor. 8. 1. 4. and 9 5▪ 7 Phil. 4. 18. Heb. 13. 16 gracious cheerful care for the saints, that free-will offering of love, and mercy, that sweet smelling odour, that acceptable, and well pleasing sacrifice unto God? Are these, I say, those sacrifices, for which jesus Christ the eternal high priest appeareth for ever before his father in heaven, that he might offer them unto him in the golden censure, perfumed with the odours of his own righteousness? or are they to be sanctified by the golden altar of his merits standing before the throne of God? Rev. 8. 3. 4. Math. 23. 19 A less indignity sure it was to lay upon the material Altar in the tabernacle, or temple, dogs, swine, vultures, and all unclean beasts, and birds, with their dirt, and dung, then thus to lay upon this heavenly altar, those † Rev. 18. 2 unclean beasts, and birds, whereof Babylon is an habitation, and cage. And for Christ's kingly office, who is able to set down the indignities, & outrages offered in your Church to the sceptre thereof? For first where Christ reigneth as the King in Zion, his holy mountain, I. ruling over his servants, and subjects only, as “ Rev. 15. 3 the King of saints under his father, you have gathered him a kingdom, & crowned him the King thereof (contrary to his express will) of known traitors, and rank rebels unto his crown, and dignity: even of such as do visibly, and apparently fight for Satan, and his kingdom, the kingdom of darkness, hating, deriding, and persecuting to the utmost of their power, all such as desire to please, and serve Christ in any sincerity. Of such, and none other, doth the body of your Church consist, for the greatest part, as all amongst you that fear God will testify with me. 2. Where Christ ruleth over his subjects by the sceptre of his II. holy word, which is * Psal. 45. 6. a sceptre of righteousness: in the place of it, the ungodly canons, and constitutions of Popes, and Prelates must, and do bear sway. Such subjects, such laws. And say not, Mr B. as you do, in answer to Mr Ainsworth, pag. 259. that you acknowledge no other lawgiver over your consciences in matters of saith, and obedience, between Christ, and you, save him alone. For what doth your Church representative but bind conscience, in binding men to subscribe to the Hierarchy, service-book, and ceremonies, spont● et exanimo? in pressing men to the use of things reputed indifferent, absolutely, and whether they offend, or offend not? in tying men to a certain form of prayer, & thanksgiving: excommunicating men for the refusal, and omission of these, and the like observances of their laws? And what do you but loose and unbind the conscience, in tolerating, yea approving, yea making, and ordaining unpreaching Ministers, and in binding the people, under both civil, and ecclesiastical penalties to their ministrations, in their own parishes, and from others? And what do you else in your dispensations for pluralities, non-Recidency, and the like? Are not these matters of conscience with you Mr B. wherein your laws, and lawmakers bind and loose, as they list? All the laws, and ordinances for the ministry and government of the jewish Church, were matters of faith, and obedience between God, and the Church, binding the consciences of the people: and is the new testament less perfect than the old? and the laws, and ordinances for the administration of it less excellent, and of a base foundation than the former? It matters not what your words are, since it appears by your deeds, that you usurp the throne of Christ, in appointing officers, and making laws for the government and administration of his kingdom the Church: and those many of them to the abolishing of his, herein rather holding Christ as a captive, then honouring him, as a King. 3. Where Christ hath given to his Church liberty, power, and III. commandment, every one of them severally, and all of them jointly to reprove and reform disorders, and whatsoever is found, whether person or thing, faulty, and disagreeing unto his word: alas this liberty is enthralled, this power lost, this commandment made of no force. The Prelates have seized all these royalties into their hands, as though they alone were made partakers of Christ's kingly anointing, & were as Kings to rule in his Church. Here is a King in a great measure without subjects, without laws, without officers, without power. But here I must needs observe a few things about two answers given by † Pag. 260. 261. Mr B. in his 2. book to two of Mr Ainsworths' objections about the matter in hand. To the former being about the officers of Christ in the Church, he answereth, that they have Christ's officers appointed to govern; the civil Magistrate, the King's Majesty, the Mr B. ruling Elder, next under Christ, etc. and the ecclesiastical governors under him, the Bishops, who are also Pastors, and Doctors. But you should have considered Mr Bern. that the question Answ. is not about civil but ecclesiastical governors. The King in deed is to govern in causes ecclesiastical, but civilly, not ecclesiastically, using the civil sword, not the spiritual for the punishing of offenders. And if the King be a Church officer, than he is, first, a King of the Church: ●▪ to be called to his office, and so deposed from it by the Church, or at least by other ecclesiastical persons, by whom alone you will have Church officers made. And lastly, if the King be such a ruling Elder, as the scriptures speak of, he is inferior to the teaching Elders, and deserves less honour than they. For so the Apostle orders things. Rom. 12. 7. 8. 1 Tim. 5. 17. Now in making your Bishops, Pastors, & Doctors, you are double forgetful of yourself, and double injurious unto them, and which is worse than both the rest, you sin against the Lord, & his truth. For the first, in your former book you made your Bishop's chief officers in the Church, and the successors of the Apostles, and Evangelists, and here you make them Pastors, and Teachers, which are the lowest orders of officers, that▪ Christ gave for the work of the ministry. Ephe. 4. 11. 2. if your Bishops be Pastors, and Teachers by their office, what are you, and the rest of your rank? You and they have not the same office, but you an office under them, and so Pastors and Teachers being the lowest order that Christ hath left in his Church, your order must needs be something under the lowest, and of an others leave then Christ's. 3. in making your Bishops the Pastors & Teachers of the Church of England, or the particular Churches in it, you lay to their charge an accusation, which they will never be able to answer at the day of the Lord, which is, their not feeding of so many thousand sheep committed unto them to be fed, and taught by them. Lastly, nothing is more untrue, and disagreeable to the word of God, then that your Provincial, and Diocesan Bishops are the Pastors, and Teachers given by Christ to his Church. There were no other ordinary officers left or appointed by the Apostles, in the Churches but such as were fixed to particular congregations, ordinarily called Bishops or Elders, Act. 14. 23. & 20. 17. 28. Phil. 1. 1. And if it can be showed, that, by the word of God any other officers were left, or appointed in the Church after the extraordinary officers, Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, whose gifts, and places were extraordinary, besides such Bishops, and Elders, as were limited to particular Churches, I will yield this whole cause in the point of the Ministry, and so profess. The other of Mr B. answer I mind, is, about the power of Christ, against sin, Satan, Antichrist, the want whereof, Mr Ainsw: and that truly, objecteth against the English assemblies. Mr B. defence Mr B. summarily is, that, there is in the Church of England, the preaching of the word, which is the power of Christ, Rom. 1. 18. as also excommunication, though not in every parish, yet in the Church of England in which is comprehended all parishes, and all superior power over them. For which let the Reader observe these particulars. Answ. First a national Church since Christ's death, and the dissolution I. of the jewish Church, is amonstrous compound, and savours of judaism. Secondly, if the main part of the power of Christ be to be administered II. in a particular congregation, by the ordinary officers thereof▪ namely the preaching of the gospel, why not the inferior part, the censures also, save that the Bishops to Lord it over all, will keep this rod in their own hands? III. Thirdly, the Ministers whose judgements & reasons you avouch, both say, and prove, in the latter end of your book, that this power is given to a particular congregation of faithful people. pag. 180. Fourthly, you yourself lay it down as a main ground against FOUR popularity, and withal sundry scriptures to prove it, that Christ hath appointed the same sorts of men in his Church for preaching, pag. 92. administration of the sacraments, and government. Lastly it is apparent, that the particular Church of Corinth † 1 Cor. 5. 4. 5. gathered V. together in the name of the Lord jesus, had the power of the Lord jesus for excommunication: and so hath every other faithful assembly in the world, as they had, which since your assemblies are not, they may want this power without any great wrong: the evil only is, that it resteth in a worse place, than the worst parish assembly, the Bishop's court, or consistory. I proceed. Only my desire is, that the things which I have noted touching Christ's kingly office, be the more carefully observed by all the people of God, and servants of jesus, in respect of that most direct opposition, which in those latter days is made against it, and the administration thereof. For as in the first times after Christ's coming in the flesh, his prophetical office was directly impugned, by jews, and heathens, so as it was † not lawful to speak Act. ●. ●2 ●3. and ●4. ●. 17. 18. in his name, & since that his priesthood by the masse-preisthood, & sacrifices in the popish Church, so now in the last place doth Satan in his instruments bend his force most directly against, and with might and main oppose the sovereignty, and crown of our Lord jesus that he may not rule in his Church, by his own officers, and laws. The matter, you say, is not false, and to show this you note a difference Mr. B. between true matter, false matter, and no matter. As you speak that, which neither any other, nor yet yourself, can understand of false matter, so you call them no matter, which make no profession of Christ at all, ●● Jews, Turk●s, Pagans, and all them true matter to wit, visible, which openly profess this ●●yn truth, that jesus the son of Merry is the son of 〈…〉 Christ the Lord, by whom only, and 〈…〉 they shallbe saved. Many grievous errors are bound up 〈…〉 invective of Mr Bernard's, Answ. but for profaneness, this one surmounts them all. For what can be spoken more prejudicial to the glory of God, or deragotory to the body of Christ, h●● that any person, but pronouncing so many words, how fill 〈…〉 ious soever he be in his life, or what errors soever he mingle with this truth, is notwithstanding true visible matter of the Church, or a true member of Christ's body visibly, or so far, as men can judge, and so must be received & acknowledged. Against this odious, and profane error, I will first deal by some clear Arguments proving the contrary, and then come to the allegations he makes for his ungodly purpose. If all, that profess this main truth, jesus the son of Mary etc. be true matter of the Church, then are most notable haeretiques true matter of the Church. The Apellites, C●rdo●●ans, and Marcio●●●es holding two contrary beginnings, or Gods, the one good, the other evil: the Macedonians denying the Holy Ghost to be God: the Cer●●●hyans holding that Christ is not yet risen from the dead: the Paternians affirming the inferior parts of the body of man to be created of the Devil: the Patric●●●● holding so of the whole body: the Novatians, and Cathari, denying repentance to them that sin: the Nicholaitans holding community of all things: the Swenk seldians, and Enthusiasts denying the outward ministry, & waiting upon the revelation of the spirit alone: and with these many others, as ill, or worse than they, professing notwithstanding this main truth, as the most of them did, and do. Then are excommunicates, true matter of the Church, though II. cast out for notorious wickedness, for many of them hold these main truths, and many more, yea more than Mr B. himself doth. Then is the true matter of the world, and limbs of the Devil, III. (for such are all wicked persons whatsoever truth they profess, joh. 8. 44. and 15. 19 Rom. 6. 16 2 Tim. 2. 26. 1 joh. 3. 8. 12.) true matter, and members of the Church. They that are Christ's, have crucified the flesh, with the affections, and FOUR lusts of ●●. Gal. 5. 24. therefore persons visibly wicked are not visibly Christ's, and so not visibly or in respect of men, true matter of the Church, or members of his body. That which destroys the Church, & makes it become either a V. false Church, or no Church at all, cannot make a true Church, or be the true matter, whereof it is made; for these things are contrary. But wicked men, whatsoever they profess in word, make the Church a Synagogue of Satan, and very Babylon, which is an habitation of Divils', and hold of all foul spirits, Rev. 18. 2. provokes God to remove the candlestick that is to dischurch a people, and to spew them out of his mouth, Rev. 2. 5. and 3. 16. Mr B. had need be a skilful workman, which can make a true Ch: of Christ, of that matter, which makes the true Churches planted by the Apostles themselves, either false, or no Churches at all. They which are true visible matter of the Church, or true visible VI christians, have Christ for their King visibly, or in outward appearance, and so far as men can judge: (for by visible, we mean that which may be seen of men, opposed to invisible, which only God seeth) for Christ is not divided, but look to whom he is a Priest to save them, & a Prophet to teach them, to the same persons he is also a K. to reign, & rule over them▪ but he is not a King to any ungodly ones, neither doth he, but Satan, and their lusts reign over them. If profession in word, with a wicked conversation, make true VII. matter of the Church, than an apparently, a flat contradiction, a known sin, & that which makes men more abominable, makes them true matter of the Church. For he that saith, he hath fellowship with God, or believes in Christ, and yet walks in darkness, doth lie, and doth not truly, 1 joh. 1. 6. He that professeth Christ to be his saviour, and doth wickedness, contradicts himself (for Christ is not a saviour of the wicked) & sins against the 4. commandment, in taking God's name in vain. Other reasons might be brought for the ●●iction of this soul, & profane error, for truth unanswerable, & for number sufficient to make a volume: but these may suffice for the present: some other I will intermingle, as occasion shallbe offered in the examination of that, which Mr B. brings for the confirmation pag. 112. of his assertion. For which end he sets down 4. Reasons. The sum of the three first is thus much: viz: that Christ, & his Mr B. Apostles preaching the gospel, such as believed the same, and made profession of it, and of their faith, were without stay, or let, received into the Church as true matter. We are as far from denying this order of gathering Churches, Answ. as you are from enjoying it, Mr B: you needed not to have made three distinct proofs of this, which no man denies: nor to have brought so many scriptures as you do, for the confirmation of that, which we grant with you, and practise without you. But herein you deceive the simple reader in that you separate, and disjoin those things, which then were, and always should be joined together: and they are faith, and repentance. These two jointly did Christ himself preach, and john Baptist before him, and the Apostles after him: and these two were preached to, and required of every one both man, and woman, which was admitted into the Church, Mat. 3. 2. 6. Mark. 1. 15. Act. 19 4. Luke 13. 3. 5. & 24. 47. Act. 2. 28. & 8. 37. & 19 18. But now because faith, & repentance are inward graces resydeing in the heart, and known to God alone, which knoweth the heart, and that the profession, and confession of them are the ordinary means by which these hidden, and invisible graces are manifested, & made visible unto men, there was no cause, but they, which made this profession to men, in sincerity, so far as men could judge, should by men be deemed, and acknowledged for true members of Christ, and fit matter for the Lords house. And so if by any other means men manifested themselves to have faith, and holiness wrought in them (though they made neither profession of faith, nor confession of sins) yet were they, (and so ought to be) entitled, and admitted to the liberties of the Church, as appeareth, Act. 10. 44. 46. 47. And upon this very ground also it is, that the children of the faithful are of the Church, and baptized, though they make no profession of faith at all, because the scriptures declare them to be within the gracious covenant of God's mercy, and love, and under the promises of the gospel, and so by us to be reputed holy. Gen. 6. ●. & 17. 7. 8. 9 10. Deut. 29. 10. 11. 12. 13. Act. 2. 39 Rom. 11. 16. 1 Cor. 7. 14. so that it is not for the profession of faith▪ ex opere operate, or because the party professing utters so many words, that he is to be admitted into the Church: but because the Church by this his profession, and other outward appearances, doth probably, & in the judgement of charity, (which is not causelessly suspicious) deem him faithful, and holy in deed▪ as in show he pretendeth. But that a man of a known lewd conversation, & appearing still to remain in his sin (whatsoever in word he professeth) should be received into the Church, (out of which he ought to be cast though he were one of it) or should have baptism administered unto him, (which is as Mr B. rightly confirms from the scriptures, the seal of the forgiveness pag. 119. 1ST. of sins, of new birth, & of salvation,) being judged not to have the forgiveness of sins, nor to be born a new, nor to be in the estate of salvation, were a most desperate and profane practice, than which I know not, whither the Devil hath brought any other into the Church, more derogatory to God's glory, or prejudicial to man's salvation. This were to make the way of the kingdom of heaven broad enough, by which all the Atheists in the world might enter into the Church, and certainly would every one of them, if the Magistrate should use his compulsive power, as it is in Engl: at this day: yea a parrot might be taught to say over so many words, yea the Devil himself▪ (though he were known so to be) would not stick for his advantage to utter them, and so might be true matter for Mr Ber: Church. The material † ● King. 5. 6. 17. 18. & ●. 7. 2 Ch●▪ ●. 8. 9. templi was to be built only of costly stones; of cedar's, firres, and the like special trees, and those all prepared before hand▪ hewed, and perfect for the building, so that neither hammer, nor axe, nor any tool of iron, was to be heard in the house in the building of it. * By the gates 2 Chr. 2●●. of the house were the porters set, that none, that was unclean in any thing, should enter in. Upon the altar there might be" offered no unclean beast, Lev. 22. 9 20. 21. etc. and 27 1. no nor that which was clean, having a blemish upon it. And is any rubbish, and ri●rat now good enough for this † spiritual house and temple of God, the Church, whereof the material temple was but a carnal shadow? may the porters, the officers, let into it, the clean, & 1 Pet. 2 ● Cor. 6. 16 Rev. 11. 1. Heb. 13. ●. unclean, without difference? may dogs, and swine, and all unclean beasts and birds promiscuously be offered upon * the altar we have in our spiritual tabernacle? God forbid. And far be it from the servants of the Lord to prepare his Majesty such a house to dwell in, or to defile his holy things with such unclean persons, or to offend his nostrils with the stench of such sacrifices. Yea, whosoever shall bring me this doctrine, that a man of known wicked conversation, without such appearance of repentance, as the Church by the word of God, & rule of charity, is to judge true, may by warrant of the word, or practise of the Apostles, be received, and admitted into the Church, by the prattling of a verbal profession, I will hold that man, yea though he were an angel from heaven, accursed. And for the places which Mr B. brings for this purpose, they are so evident against him, as when I read them, I do even wonder, with what conscience, modesty, or wisdom, he could set them down. They do speak in deed of faith, and the profession of faith, in, and by such, as were received into the Church: but of what faith? of a dead faith without works, as “ Ch. 2. 26 james speaks? or fruitful in evil works, which is worse? nothing less, but of such a faith, as hath the express promise of * Act. 15. 9 Gal. 5. 6. 1 joh. 5. 1 life eternal annexed unto it, even of that faith, which purifieth the heart, and worketh by love towards God, and man. The places of scripture are these, Rom. 10. 9 joh. 1. 12. & 3. 36. joh. 17. 3. Act. 2. 36. & 8. 37. & 9 20. & 11. 26. & 16. 31. 33. & 19 4. ●. & ●8. 28. Luk. 24. 47. 1 Cor. 15. 3. & 3. 11. Godly reader view the places one by one, and see if any one of them speak of a verbal faith, only begot in the mouth, or of such a profession of faith, as hath joined with it a profane conversation; the contrary will appear as clear as the sun, and in it, how evil a conscience this man useth thus to pervert the scriptures to the maintenance of a vile opinion, and profane practice. Your 4. Reason to prove that the profession of the main truth before laid down is of force to make a true Christian, is, that by Mr B. it the man so professing doth differ from jews, Turks, Pagans, & Papists. He doth in deed, for he is so much worse than they, by his verbal Answ. profession of the truth, taking God's name in vain, and dishonouring it far more than the other. 1 Tim. 5. 8. Isa. 52. 5. Rom. 2. 24. And what matter is it from whom he differs, that differs not from, but is one of the men of the world, a limb of Satan, and an habitation of his spirit? Lastly, ●● fire it may be considered, whether you be not a partial, and 〈◊〉 judge▪ betwixt the Papists, and yourselves. They for shutting ●● their works, at a third or fourth hand, with faith in the 〈…〉 f salvation, must be judged ●●●se matter, and their error against the 〈◊〉 of faith in the Son of God, and destroying it, & against he truth of the gospel, because it is against the sacrifice of Christ's priesthood: and yet you, though you yoke Antichrist with Christ, and the Pope's Canons with Christ's Testament, in the spiritual government of the souls, and bodies of his people, and so sin against the sceptre of his kingdom, must be reputed true matter; your error no way against the nature of faith, or truth of the gospel; as though true faith did not as well apprehend Christ a King, as a Prophet, in the cause of salvation, though not in the act of justification: and as though the order which Christ hath left, in the Evangelists, Acts, and Epistles to Timothy, and Titus, for the gathering, and government of his Church, were not as well a part of the gospel, and so the object of faith as any other portion of it. Yea to conclude, I tell you Mr B. and not I but the holy Ghost (and I pray you consider it well) that a lewd conversation and evil conscience is as damnable a sin▪ and as directly against the nature of faith in the son of God, and the truth of the gospel, and doth as plainly destroy faith, and prejudice salvation, as any either Popish, or other heresy in the world. Luk. 24. 47. 1 Cor. 5. 11. Gal. 5. 19 20. 21. Ephe. 5. 5. 6. 1 Tim. 1. 19 & 5. 8. 1 joh. 1. 6. But grant (as you would have it) that profession in word with an apparent denial of the same in deed, made a true Christian, or true matter of the Church, and that the Apostles built the Lord's house of such stones, (which for me to grant were both folly, and impiety, as it is in you to affirm it) yet would it no way advantage you, nor justify your Church. For the profession, by which the Apostles, and Apostolic Churches received members, was voluntary, and personal, freely made by the particular persons which joined themselves unto the Lord, as the scriptures by you quoted prove, as every one that readeth them, may see: but where was or is any such personal, and particular profession used or required of any men, or women, in the replanting of your Church after Popery? A man may go out of these countries where I now live, as many do, and hire a house in any parish of the land; ●e is by the right of his house, or f●rm, a member of the parish Church, where he dwells, yea though he have been nuzzled up all his life long in Popery, or Atheism, & though he were formerly neither of any Church, or religion. Yea though he should profess that he did not look to be saved by Christ only, and alone, but by his good meanings, and well doings: yet if he will come, & hear divine service he is matter, true as steel for your Church: yea be he of the King's natural subjects, he shall, by order of law, be made true matter of the Church, whether he will or no. And what profession of faith in this very case of salvation, the body of your Church makes, or would make, if men freely spoke their thoughts, a Minister of good note amongst yourselves shall testify out of his own experience. The person is “ Pag 218. Mr Nichols, who in his Plea of the innocent, expressly affirms, that conferring with the particular persons in his parish, (after he had preached some good space amongst them) about the means of salvation, of 400 communicants he scarce found one, but that thought, and professed, a man might be saved by his own w●ll doing, and tha● he trusted he did so love, that by God's grace he should obtain everlasting l●se, by serving God, and good prayers. Now how do these agree together? Mr B: saith that all profess salvation by Christ only, and alone: Mr Nichols on the contrary affirms out of his own experience, that not one of 400 so thinks, and professes. And if he, and all the ministers in England should deny it, we out selves by our own experience know what the faith, and persuasion of the multitude in most places is. Now for your further reasoning, that because a Bishop, or two, published this, and some other main truths unto the world, with the approbation of the Parliament, and Convocation house, and that some preachers here, & there do so teach, therefore all the land so professeth, (where many thousands do not so much as understand it) what can be imagined more vain? Can men profess the truth they know no●? What is this, but the Papists implicit faith, when men beleiv, as the Church believeth, though they know not what it is? yea and worse than it also, for as we see, and know infinite multitudes believe, and upon occasion profess the contrary. But most vain of all is it to affirm, that because a few godly martyrs have sealed up this, & the like truths with their blood, that therefore they that murdered them, profess the same truth, & are true Christians without any other change wrought in them for the most part, then by the Magistrate's sword, and authority. You affirm by way of answer pag. 249. of your second book, that the Magistrates compulsion unto goodness is no hurt unto it, neither makes men unholy, or less good, if they have goodness in them. As it is not simply true you affirm, that the compulsion of men to the faith, doth not hurt it; for if the causing the truth to be blasphemed be to hurt it, than the compelling of apparent wicked people to profess the same, hurts it, as it doth both them, and the Church whereof they are; so if the body of the land in the beginning of the Queen's reign, were good, and holy at all, the magistrates compulsion wrought it in men, & made them of persecuting Idolaters, true Christians: for other mean●● intervening, or coming betwixt their profession of the mass, & of the gospel, had they none, saving the Magistrate's authority. But here I am by necessity, and in respect of the present matter in hand, drawn into Mr B. 2. book: and a great benefit were it to me, if there I might find him, (though in both unfound) yet one, and the same. But a great trouble it is to walk with a drunken man, and to be bound to follow him in all his vagaries: so is it to deal with an adversary light headed, & dizzy with wrath, vanity, and error, whom a man must follow in all his staggerings, and reel to, and fro, and in all the forwards, and backwards that he makes, oft times going, and ungoing again the same by-paths. There is no one thing whereupon Mr B: labours more in his former book, and for which he brings more reasons, and scriptures, and those often repeated, then to prove the Church of England, or rather such particular Churches, as have the word preached in them, to be truly gathered after the suppressing of Popery, and by the order of the Apostolic Churches: both in respect of separation from idolaters, and Antichristian Papists, pag. 108▪ as also by profession of the main truth, and sum of the Gospel, wherein they differed from jews, Turks, and Pagans, as no matter; and also from Papists as false matter of the Church. pag 111. 112. 113. 116. And therefore having proved by a multitude of scriptures that the Apostolic Churches were gathered by free profession of faith, he concludes thus of them, and of his own Church, † pag. 113. such as make this profession, are true matter, and so are we: for we all profess this faith etc. But now, as though he had either forgotten what he wrote before, or cared not how he crossed himself, so he might oppose us, against whom he hath vowed such utter enmity▪ he sucks in his former breath, and eats the words he had formerly uttered, peremptorily affirming in his pag. 146. ●4●. 246. 2. book, that in the reformation of a Church after Popery, there is not required any such profession, nor yet the word of God to go before their reformation, but that the fear of the Magistrates sword is sufficient to recover them, and to settle the people in order to the worship of God. The ground upon which he builds this his new, and cross opinion, is, the practice of Asa, Ezechias, josias and Nehemiah, godly Kings, and Princes of judah, in the reformation of that Church, after her Apostasy, in the days of ungodly, & Idolatrous Kings: & thereupon, taking it for granted, that the catholic visible Ch: of Rome (as it is called) now is, and that the national Church of England in Queen Mary's days and before, when Popery reigned, was, in the same estate with judah in her apostasy, he concludes thence, that as the Magistrates then without any voluntary profession, did by force, bring the people of the jews back from Idolatry to the true service of God, so might King Edward, and Queen Elizabeth by force, bring back the people of England into covenant with God, to be his true Church, without any such profession of faith, as in the first planting of Churches, is required. We will then consider of this point at large, as being both weighty in itself, and having many others depending upon it. That judah was at the first, and so continued (by virtue of the Lords Covenant with her forefathers, on his part faithfully remembered, and kept, though by her oft times broken) the true Church of God, and † Rom. 11. 16. 20. holy in the root, till she was broken of for unbelief, after the death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ, fully published, and confirmed by the Apostles, I grant with him: but the same or the like things, of the Church of Rome or of England in the respects laid down, may I not acknowledge. That there was at Rome a true Church * Rom. 1. ● 7. beloved of God, called saints by giving obedience unto the faith, is apparent: but that either the city, or Church of Rome, consisting of many cities, and countries, was ever within the Lords covenant, and holy in the root, as judah was, may I neither acknowledge, neither can he possibly prove. So for England, I will not deny, but there were at the first true Churches planted in it, by the preaching of the gospel, and obedience of faith; and these as the other Churches in every nation, though “ joh. 15. 19 and 17. 14. 15. 16. in the world, yet not of it, but chosen out of it, and hated by it: † Act. 10. 35. men fearing God, and working righteousness, and so being accepted of God, in what nation soever: * ch. 20. ●8 purchased with the blood of Christ, and so made his flock: “ 1 Cor. 1. 2 saints by calling, and sanctified in Christ jesus, and calling upon the name of the Lord jesus Christ in every place: such were † Act. 9 31 the Churches in Iud●a, Galily, and Samaria; * Gal. 1. ●. ●1. the Churches in Galatia; “ Rev. 1. ●. the 7 Churches in Asia: and of such people, gathered into so many distinct assemblies, each entire in herself having peculiar † Act. 14. 23. and 20. 17. 28. job. 1. 1. Bishops or Elders set over her▪ for her feeding, by doctrine, and government, did those particular Churches consist: they thus separated from the rest both jews, and Gentiles in every nation, whether more, or less, were that chosen generation, that royal priesthood, that holy nation, and purchased people of the Lord. But 1 Th. ●. 12. Tit. 1. ●. that ever the whole nation, and all the Kings natural subjects in it, should have been within the covenant of the Lord, & entitled by the word of the Lord, to the seals of the covenant, and all the other holy things depending upon it, is a popular, and popish fantasy, as ever came into man's brain: requiring a newfound land of Canaan, for a seat of this national Church, wherein no uncircumcised person may dwell; and a new old testament, for the policy, and government of the same. And lastly it makes all one, them that Christ hath chosen out of the world, and the world; them that fear God, & work righteousness, and whom he accepteth in every nation, and the nation itself: the beloved of God at Rome, and the sanctified in Christ jesus at Corinth, with the City of Rome, and of Corinth: than which what confusion can be greater? But to admit that for truth, which you so take, namely that Rome in the sense, wherein we speak sometimes was the true Church of God, as judah: and more specially, that the English nation was, as the nation of the jews, and all, and every person in it▪ high, and low, received into covenant with the Lord, to be his people, and that he might be their God: yet can it not be said of Rome, that she still remains the true Church of God, as judah did in her defection: but on the contrary, as she broke her covenant with God, advancing by degrees † ● Th. 2. 3 4. that man of sin, the son of perdition, and adversary, Antichrist, till he was exalted into the throne of Christ: and that * v. 7. mystery of godliness, in, and according to which, that Church was planted at the first, degenerated into the mystery of iniquity: so did ● Tim. 3. 16. the Lord, for her adulteries (wherein she was incorrigible) when they were come to the height, break the covenant on his part and gave her, as an harlot, a bill of divorce and put her away, and her daughter Engl. with her amongst the rest. Now for the more full clearing of this truth, I will in the first place answer such reasons as Mr B. brings against it: and that done, lay down certain arguments to disprove his Popish plea for that Romish Synagogue. Only in the mean while I wish him to consider, that, if Mr ●m. deserve so severe a censure, as he lays upon him, pag. 281. of this book, for some favourable affirmations touching some things, ●● persons in Rome, he himself is much more blame worthy, that both professeth and pleadeth her the true Church of Christ, and in the covenant of grace, and salvation: than which what greater and more notable plea can be made for her? Nay if it be probable, that he, which pleads for Rome, as Mr Smith doth, will in time▪ become ●n love with it, and sit down a blind Papist, it is necessary, that he which thinks it a true Church, return unto it, from which he hath wickedly schismed, as all men do that separate from the true Church of Christ, for any corruptions whatsoever. Here I do also entreat the prudent Reader to bear it in mind that the constitution of England cannot be justified, nor she proved to be rightly gathered, but with the defence of Rome, yea of † Rev. 1●. 2 4. that great, and purpled whore to be the true spouse of the Lord jesus. The Reasons by which Mr B. would prove Rome a true Church, are by him reckoned five in number; we will consider of them in order. The first is taken from the first planting of that Church in S. Paul's I. time, by virtue of which former calling, and constitution (saith he) Rome Mr B. still remains the Lord's people, as Israel did in the wilderness, notwithstanding her idolatry. I do answer first, that Rome (as we now consider of it) was never Answ. the Lords called nor under his covenant, though a Church, or assembly in that city (or it may be more than one) of saints, were, and secondly, that though she were, yet is the covenant broken through her fornications, and impenitency in them, both on her part, and the Lords visibly, and she divorced long a go, and her daughters in, and with her. His second Reason is grounded upon 2 Th. 2. 4. because Antichrist, II. that is, (saith he) that head with his body sitteth, in the temple of God: which (he further tells us) must be understood visibly in respect of the truths Mr B. of God in doctrine, and ordinances of Christ held there, of which Gods people among them partake in his mercy, to their salvation, and others from time, to time, have maintained openly to the preservation of some fundamental points of the Apostolical constitution. Whereupon he also concludes, that since the temple of God (typing out the Church) wherein he sitteth, hath a true constitution, Rome and that in respect of the time present, hath a true constitution, and is a true Church. He might also have added, and ever shall be a true Church, for Antichrist ever shall sit there till Christ's second coming. v. 8. Many men have written much about the notes & marks of the Answ. true Church, by which it is differenced, and discerned from all other assemblies: and many others have sought for it, as joseph and Mary did for Christ, with heavy hearts Luk. 2. 48. that they might there rest under the shadow of the wings of the Almighty, enjoying the promises of his presence, and power. But what needs all this a do? Mr B▪ points us out with the finger a mark of the true Church, most evident, and conspicuous, and like a beacon upon an high hill, and that is, the exaltation of Antichrist. I had thought the Churches, and † Ex. 25. 8 2 Cor. 6. 16 people of God should have been known by his dwelling among them, & walking there, and by Christ's presence * Math. 11. 20. in the midst of them: but I now perceive antichrist's power, presence, and exaltation is a sure sign, by which the Churches of Christ must be discerned. If any therefore desire to plant his feet in the courts of the Lords house and there to abide for ever, let him be sure to choose such a Rev. 1. 13. Church to join to, as wherein Antichrist sitteth; and so espeia●lly the Church of Rome, because he sits surest there? And it is very like this is one reason, why Mr B. is so much persuaded of the Church of England, as of a true Church, because he thinks Antichrist sits there in a measure: and it is not impossible, but this may have been some part of the cause, why in former times he was so loath to leave that Church, and to join to us, (when he thought we had the truth) because he perceived we wanted that prerogative of antichrist's seat, which England enjoys. But though this show the absurdity of the opinion, yet doth it not answer the objections. I do then answer the same in effect, which Mr B. makes his fourth Argument: namely, that, Popery, or Antichristianism begun not out of Christianity but in the Church of God: where it did also by steps advance itself into the very throne of God, & of Christ: & there did in time, and by degrees so universally corrupt, and confound both persons and things, as that God could no longer be said to dwell there, by his visible presence, and promises, but Antichrist in his stead: having destroyed the temple of the Lord, the Church, and carried captive his people, with the holy vessels into Babylon spiritual: as did the civil Babylonians the material temple, carrying captive with them into Babylon civil, the holy vessels, and other appurtenances thereof, together, with a remnant of the Lords people, of which more hereafter. Only I do in the mean while except against two particulars in this second Argument. The former is, that Antichrist sitting in the temple of God (viz so remaining) is that head, with his body. 2 Th. 2. Antichrist was not in the Apostles time, nor in a long time after, a perfect man, consisting of the head the Pope, and the body, the Hierarchy ecclesiastical, but was in the seed only, or as an embrie in the womb, not perfectly framed, much less visibly brought forth, least of all grown to that height, as to justle with Christ for his throne, yea to dispossess him of it, as now he doth, and hath done a long season. Secondly it is not truly affirmed, that because there are some fundamental truths of God in doctrine, and truths in ordinances of Christ (as you Mr B. speak) held there, that therefore Rome is the true Church. How should Antichrist and the Devil in him, so effectually deceive with the delusion of vanity, and error, if he did not countenance the same with some truths? And do you not think it possible Mr B. that any malignant, and fal●e Churches, should usurp some truths and ordinances of Christ which apperteyn not unto them? If your argument be good, the Greek Churches, the Arians, Anabaptists, Ubiquitaries, yea and all the assemblies of haeretiques and schismatics in the world, are true Churches of Christ; for they all reteyn many main truths, and ordinances of Christ. III. The third Argument is, that as the children, or infants of the ten Mr B. tribes in jeroboams Apostasy were called the children of God, by circumcision the visible seal of God's covenant, so may the little ones in the Romish Church be called Christ's, for that they have received true baptism. And so that Rome hath a true constitution by true baptism in the children, who are Christ's thereby, as the children of the Israelites were the Lords by circumcision, till by education they be made Antichristian, and by that offered up to Antichrist, as the Israelitish children became Molechs', by their father's offering them to him. Answ. You do here Mr B. in the first place alter the state of the question in both the terms. The question is, whether the Church of Rome be the true usible Church of Christ, or no. You for the Romish Church, put the l●tle ones in the Romish Church: and in stead of their being the visible Church, you tell us, they may be called Christ's. Whereas 1. those little ones, or infants, are not the Church, but the least part of it: and secondly, they are not necessarily either the true visible Church, or of it, because they are Christ's, (●● so they were) in a respect: for God hath his in † Rev. 18. 4. Babylon, whic● are visible Citizens, of that visible City of fornication, (though the Lords, in respect of election, and the beginnings of personal sanctification) whom he therefore calls out of the comm〈…〉▪ of it, & the abominations therein, under a severe penalty. Secondly, wh●● you say, 〈…〉 the children in the Romish Church have a true 〈…〉 by 〈…〉 are Christ's, till by education they be made An't 〈…〉, ●●d by it 〈◊〉 up to Antichrist, you seem to make the Church of Rome to be, or to comprehend in it, two distinct, yea two 〈◊〉 visible Churches: a Christian Church of infants, before they be capable of education: and an Antichristian Church of those that are of rip● years. And yet further where you say, that i● (for so your words are) hath a t●●e constitute ●● by true baptism in their children, there it seems, you will have the parents to have one constitution, that is to be one Church, with their children, and that true, by their true baptism: and to the parents, which by their education, are Antichristian: must by the baptism of their children be made christian: and yet the children, by their parents, when they are capable of their education, be made antichristian & offered up to Antichrist. The scriptures every where teach, that parents by their faith, bring their children into the * ●en. 1●. ●. Act. 1. 39 covenant of the Church, and entitle them to the promises: but that children by their circumcision, or baptism, should constitute their parents in the Church, read ● not, but in this m●ns scripture. Yo● most manifest it is every where, that wicked parents by their 〈…〉 lity, or other sins, depriving themselves of the Lords presence, and covenant, have enwrapped their children ●●th 〈…〉 and visibly: “ Deut. ●9. 29. secret things ever reserved unto God. So † Gen. 4. 16 ●●d ●. 2. C 〈…〉 the presence of the Lord carried his posterity with him: so ●i● Ishmael, and I●sa● theirs, the Ismaelites, and Edo●●es. And ●●th Lord dis●laym * Hos. 2. 2. 5. the mother for a harlot, not reputing her his wife, he accounts the children no better than bastards, on whom he will have no pity. And if the children of the jews be not † Rom. 11▪ 17. broken of with their parents, for their unbelief, they are successively within the covenant, and of the true Church every one of them to this day. Neither doth this at all cross that which else where you object out of the Prophet, that * Ezek. 19 20. the soul that sinneth shall die, & that the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, etc. For first the Prophet there speaks of such a son as forsakes his father's evil, & practiseth the contrary: Otherwise the Lord threateneth, that he “ Ex. 20. 5 will visit the sins of the fathers upon the children: yet not so; as the children are without fault, for infants newborn by Adam's transgression, and their natural, and original corruption, are † Ephe. 2. 3 Ps. 51. 5. children of wrath, and liable to all God's curses; but the Lord takes occasion by the sins of the parents to execute his justice upon the children, in whose punishments he also punisheth the parents themselves after a sort. The next thing I observe in this argument is, that you affirm the children of the Apostate Israelites to be the children of God by circumcision, and infants now to be Christ's by baptism, which you say also constitutes the Church: against which Popish, and anabaptistical, error, I do justly except. Popish I call it, for that the papists imagine that by baptism their children are made Christian souls, and in sign of that, they have the font ever standing at the Church door: so do the Anabaptists make baptism the form of the Church, which you call the constitution, as indeed the form of a thing constituteth it, and giveth being unto it. Whereof if I myself were persuaded, I could not defend the baptism received either in Rome, or England, but I must withal justify both the one, & the other for the true Church of Christ. But against this unsound opinion both theirs, and yours, I will lay down certain arguments plainly proving the contrary. And first, it is the covenant of God, which makes the Church as you yourself both affirm, & prove, pag. 277. of your 2▪ book, of pag. 132. which covenant you also grant in this place baptism to be the visible seal, as was also * Rom. 4. 11. circumcision in those times; and therefore it is not the covenant itself, but is after it in the order both of nature, and tyme. Secondly, the Lord had his Church before either circumcision or baptism were appointed, which is also one, and the same in essence from the beginning to the end of the world; which it couldnot be, if either circumcision, or baptism, were parts constitutive, or essential of it. Thirdly, † Gen. 17 7 the Lord made his covenant (and so admitted them into the Church) w●●h Abraham, and his seed, to be his and their God, in their ages and generations: so that he children of Abraham, and of the jews, were not without the Lord covenant, and him to be their God, till the time of their circumcision, which was the eighth day; but were born, yea begot in the covenant, and an holy seed: and therefore the man-child, not circumcised the eight day, is said to have broken the Lords covenant, whereof circumcision was asigne. To v. 11. 14. this also add, that the Lord did admit into 〈◊〉 with himself (accepting them to be his people) all, and every one of 〈◊〉 Israelites in the Deut. 29. 10. 11. 12. 13. etc. wilderness, where notwithstanding all of them in comparison, were uncircumcised. jos. 5. 2. 3. 4. 5. Fourthly if baptism were the constitution of the Church, as Mr B. speaks, than were all heretics, and schismatics baptized with water, into the name of the Father, Son, and H. Ghost, true christians, and their assemblies, true Churches of Christ: so had the ● S●●ce●●tes been a true Church by circumcision, and so * Gen. 34. 24. of the Is●●●elites or Agarians, which have retained circumcision to this day: the same may be said of the Erimites, and Edomites, which were notwithstanding as far from being true Churches, as Mr B. is from the truth of God, in writing, a● he doth. A fourth consideration is to be had of an affirmation by you peremptorily and absolutely made, (as though it were without all contradiction, or limitation) in the third argument: and that is, that the baptism in the Romish Church is true baptism. Touching which I do commend unto the godly reader this distinction. Baptism is to be considered of us in a twofold respect: first nakedly, and ●● the essential causes; the matter, water; and the form, the washing with water into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the H. Ghost, and in this respect, I confess true baptism both in England and Rome. Secondly, it is to be considered of us, 〈…〉, as they speak, & clothed with such appurtenances, as wherewith the Lord hath appointed it to be administered: as for example, a lawful person by whom, a right subject upon which, a true communion wherein, it is to be ministered, & dispensed; in which regards, neither I can approve it, nor Mr B. manifest it to be true, either in Rome, or England. When † 2 King. 25. 9 15. jer. 52. 13. 18. the house of the Lord at jerusalem was destroyed by the Chaldees, and the vessels thereof, together with the people, carried into Babylon, they remained still, both in nature, and right, the vessels of the Lords house: though in respect of their use, or rather abuse▪ they became * Dan. 5. 2. 3. Belshazzars', quaffing bowls. So is it in the destruction of the spiritual house of the Lord, the Church, by the spiritual Babylonians, and in the usurpation, and abuse of the holy vessels, and in special of this holy vessel of baptism. Yet is there in this point a further consideration to be had of us, unto which both the scriptures, and our own experience do lead us: namely that, as the Lord hath his people in Babylon, his, I mean, both in respect of election, and of personal sanctification: so hath he for their sakes there preserved (notwithstanding all the apostasy, and confusion, which is found in it) sundry his holy truths, and ordinances, amongst which baptism is one. But as this his people, being commingled with the Babylonians in one visible communion, cannot be called the true visible Church of God; so neither can these ordinances, in the administration of them, be called the true visible ordinances of Christ, and of his Church: but as the Lords “ Rev. 18. 4. people are commanded to go out of her, and to † 2 Cor. 6. 17. separate themselves, and so to build the Lords house a new in jerusalem, or rather themselves, into a new * 1 Pet. 2. 5. 2 Cor. 6 16. spiritual house for him to dwell in; so are they to bring with them out of Babylon these ordinances, and in particular this ordinance of baptism, and to enjoy the same (being sanctified) in the right use, and order. All which was livelily shadowed out in the material temple, and ordinances as appeareth Ezra 1. 7. 8. 9 10. 11. and 5. 13. 14. 15. And this also may serve for answer to that you bring in your second reason for the justification of Rome in respect of the truths of doctrine, and ordinances there. In your fourth argument there is little but the answer (of which Mr. B. I formerly spoke) unto the second; to wit that antichristianism begun in Christianity, which is true, as sowernes begins in wine, till by degrees Answ. it turn it into vinegar: and as other heresies begun in the Eastern Churches, which have notwithstanding long since eaten out the hearts of them, that they cannot, nor could not of long time be called the true Churches of Christ. True also is it, which you say that antichristianism doth not wholly disannul christianity: for if it did, it were not possible it should deceive so effectually as it doth. How should the Devil be believed in so many lies, if he should not in some things speak the truth? But where you further add, that Popery is nothing, but idolatrous, and he●itic●l corruptions upon the profession of Christian faith, covering it with the same, as jobs body was with sores, and in the more large application of that Simile, pag. 245. do affirm that as he, though covered over with botches, and sores, so a● he could scarce be known by his friends, was job still under the sores, and the very same essentially, that he was before, so ●s the Church, and christianity in Popery, ●hough covered with the antichristian corruptions, which Satan hath brought over them, in so saying, you are like yourself, only constant in inconstancy, and error. And tell me I pray you Mr B. is the Pope's universal supremacy, and headship over all Churches, by which also he claimeth power of both the swords, only a s●ab upon the skin of the true ministry, which Christ hath left in the Church, without prejudicing the essence or nature of it? Is the sacrifice of the mass only, a soar brought upon the Lord's supper, under which notwithstanding it lies the very same in nature, and substance, which was by Christ ordained? Is prayer unto saints only a corruption come upon true prayer, but no more against the life of it, than jobs ulcers were against his life, or doth it not destroy the very soul, and life of prayer? Is adoration of saints, service in an unknown tongue, with all other the abominations in the mass-book, but as a scurf come over that true worship of God wherewith he willbe worshipped? john. 4. 23. 24. under which the very same true worship lieth (as job did under his sores) which God hath commanded, & that without any more danger of loss of life, than job was in by his outside skabs? Lastly, is the opinion of justification by works, only a botch, and bile upon true faith, but not against the nature of it▪ nor destroying the essence of it? Your error is sufficiently convinced in the recital and opening of it, in these particulars: your inconstancy, and contradiction is most notorious in the last of them, compared with that you write, pag. 113. of your former book; namely, that the joining of works in the cause of salvation, which the Papists do, is against the true nature of faith in the son of God, and destroyeth it. V. That which you call your fifth reason hath no countenance of Mr B. a reason in it, but is merely a conclusion inferred by you upon your 4 former reasons, to prove Rome, in respect of the time pr●●ent, a true Church: and the sum of it is▪ that the Churches now coming out of Babylon, do not require any n●w plantation, but only a reformation, as did judith in the time of Hezechiah, after the apostasy of Idolatrous Ahaz, and of the people w●●h him. But since the reasons wherewith you would underprop this your inference, are taken away, it must needs ●●ll to the ground. Neither will your Babel stand any whit the stronglyer for the † Ezek. 13 10. daubing you make with this, and the like untempered mortar, that it hath not made a nullity of religion: that it hath not lost the Apostolical constitution totally: that it holds truths sufficient to iudg men christian by, the corruptions being taken away. For first, what matters it, though Rome have not made a nullity, if it have made a falsity of religion, by most gross untruths, haeresyes, and idolatries, making void the commandments of God by men's traditions: and teaching for doctrines, men's precepts? And secondly what though the constitution be not totally lost? If an house, or material building be not totally demolished, but there still remain some few posts, or studs not yet pulled down, or some few stones of the foundation undigged up, is it therefore truly an house, and so to be called? Lastly doth it follow, that, because Papists might be judged true christians for the truths they hold, their corruptions being taken away, they are therefore such with their corruptions: so the vilest haeretique, Idolater, or other miscreant in the world, take away his heresy, Idolatry, and mischief, may be judged a christian: yea the Devil himself, take but away his corruptions, is a glorious Angel of light. Having thus answered the reasons brought by Mr B. to prove Rome a true Church, and the like, I will in the next place lay down such arguments from the scriptures, as manifest the contrary, and those also taken out of his own writings, for the further discovering of his unsound, and deceitful dealing with men, in the Lords matters. And first in his cathechism printed 1602. pag. 1●. he demands I. this question. ●● the Church of Rome a true Church of Christ? whereunto he answereth. No; but of Antichrist the Pope the chief teacher of the doctrine of Divils'. And in the same place to prove that religion a false religion, he brings 7. general reasons very weighty, all, and every one of them, as he that reads the place, shall find. Secondly, in his separatists schism, he makes as jews, Turks, and II. Pagans, no matter, so Papists false matter of the Church, and contrary to true matter, in that they join with Christ, their works in the cause of salvation. pag. 111. 112. 113, 116. Thirdly, he affirms in his last book pag. 277. that the covenant III. betwixt God, and the people is the form of the Church; and proves, that this covenanting mutually doth give a being unto a people, to be God's people Deut. 29. 12. 13. To this let that be added, which he writeth pag. 281. of the same book, namely that the Papists have not the same word, and fundamental points of the covenant, with them in England. And in particular, that they make a covenant with Angels, and Saints, and so hold not the person in the covenant: that they make another word even men's traditions, the declaration of the covenant, and so change the evidence: that they make more sacraments, and so add counterfeit seals, turning the Lord's supper into a Popish sacrifice, and so do tear off the Lords seal, and make it nothing worth: and pag. 280. these three, namely the person, the writing, and the seals he makes the foundamental points of the covenant, as wherein the foundation thereof doth stand. And who now seeth not, how this man is first constrained to plead for Rome as a true Church, to defend the Church of England, and afterwards being ashamed of that plea, to condemn it as a false Church, corrupt, and counterfyet in the very foundation, and form, which gives the being, as he himself speaks. Fourthly, he grants in these his * pag. 161. plain endeavours, that Rome is FOUR Babylon, and that the H. Ghost so calls it, and applies rightly the places literally spoken of the type the heathenish Babylon; spiritually to the thing signified, the Antichristian Babylon, the Romish Synagogue. And the same thing, the writings of the godly learned, both at home, and abroad do confirm. No● what can be more plain? Is it possible that Rome should be both Babylon, & jerusalem? both the Synagogue of Antichrist, and the Church of Christ? Can that Catholic visible body, the Church of Rome, (as it is called) under that visible head, Antichrist the Pope, be the true visible body of Christ, under him the head? The Apostle writing unto the Galatians, calls the Church of the new testament † Ch. 4. 26 jerusalem, which is above, & the mother of the faithful: and john in the book of * ch. 14. 8▪ and 15. 2. with ch. 21. 2. 3. the Revelation, opposeth unto Babylon spiritual, the ●●w jerusalem coming down from God out of h●●ven: and the tabernacle of God, where he dwelleth with men, making th●m his people, and himself 〈…〉 heir God. Now as the people of God in old time, were called out of “ I●r. 50 8. 9 10. etc. and 51. 6. 7 8. 9 Is●y. 21 9 Babylon civil, the place of their bodily bondage; and were to come † E●ra. 1. 2. 3. 5. etc. to jerusalem, and there to build ● new the Lords temple, or tabernacle, leaving Babylon to that destruction, which the Lord by his servants, the Prophets, had denounced against it: so are * R●v. 14. 8. and 18. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. and 1● 2. 3. the people of God, now to g●●e out of Babylon spiri●●●●, to jerusalem, and to build up themselves as lively stones into a s 〈…〉, or temple for the Lord to d●vel in▪ leaving Babylon to that destruction and desolation (●ea furthering the same) to which she is devoted by the Lord. B●● if the people of God should receive Mr B. doctrine, they were not to come out of Babylon, nor to endeavour her destruction, but to tarry in her still, labouring for her reformation, and the reparation of her decayed places: neither were they to build my new spiritual temple, or to constitute any new Church from Rome present, (for of such a new constitution we speak) but there to abide, reproving her corruptions, and endeavouring the reformation of them. It is therefore untrue which you ●●y Mr B. “ pag. 133. that▪ the Romish Church must be dealt with only, as the Church of God was in judith: it must be dealt with as was Babylon, e●en abandoned and forsaken by the Lord's people, upon p●●ill of the curses, and plagues due unto it, and denounced against it, and against all that abide in it. To this which Mr B. in this place so greatly contends for, namely tha● Rome is the true Church of Christ though under corruptions, as job was a true man under his sores, let that be added which he writeth else where in this book that † pag. 265 corruptions are made matter of reproof, but no cause of separation from the Church: and further that * pag. 110. 111. they that separate from a true Church, the body, cut of themselves from Christ, the head: and to these two a third grant, and profession he makes, as that their “ pag. 114. profession, and laws in England separate a protestant, from a Papist: that the Church of England is separated by profession▪ laws, and public meetings from Papists: that † pag. 129. the very societies of Papists are to be left as no people of God, and his writings will appear to all men like a beggar's cloak patched together of old, and new * pag. 142. pieces, scraped up here and there, scarce two of the same either colour, or thread. Let me a little stitch his patches together, and set them in some order. They that separate from the true Church, cut of themselves from Christ. Mr B. pag 110. 111. But the Church of England in separating from Rome, is separated from the true Ch: Mr B. pag. 114. 129. 14●. with 131. 132. 133. Therefore by Mr B. both grant and proof the Church of England is separated from Christ. And is this your piety, and thankfulness Mr B. towards your mother, for want of which you cast so many bitter curses upon the separatists? you are so far carried in honouring your grandmother Rome, as a true Church, that you clean forgot your mother England, and condemn her for a schismatical Synagogue. Yea well were it, or at the least more tolerable in you, if you thus dealt only with yourself, and your own, but this vile injury which you here offer, extends itself far, and near, even to Luther, Zuinglius, and the other godly guides of separation, and to all the reformed Churches separated from the Church of Rome, yea to the martyrs in King Henry's, and Queen mary's days, and to all other the like godly minded, through the whole world, whom you condemn as wicked schismatics and separated from Christ the head, in separating themselves from his body, your true Church of Rome. VI Lastly the Apostle Paul writing to the Church of Rome in her first, and best estate, praemonisheth her to stand fast in the faith received, lest he, which had * Rom. 11. ●7. 20. ●1. not spared the natural branches, the jewish Church, but broken them of for vnbel●if, should not spare the wild branches. whereof she consisted. How then Mr B. can you deny, that Rome is, and hath been long, broken of, which so long hath ●●yned works in the cause of salvation, which you yourself affirm to be against the true nature of faith, in the ●o●● of God, and that which destroyeth ●●? And that all may take knowledge, how the Lord dealeth with his Churches under the new testament, and may learn both to fear in themselves, and how to judge of the present state of Rome, let it be observed, what Christ jesus by his servant john writeth unto the Churches in Asia, especially † Rev. ●. ●. v. 4. to the Church of Ep●esu●: which he having blamed for leaving her first love, exhorts to repentance and to the doing of her first works, threatening withal, that otherwise he will come against her shortly, and remove her candlestick out of the place, except v. 5. she amend. The same thing in effect he denounceth against v. 12. 16. the Churches of Perga●us, and Thya●yra, and so against the rest, upon the like occasions. And if the Lord dealt so severely with the v. 18. 2●. 2●. Church of Ephesus, notwithstanding the many excellent things, which were found in her, and so acknowledged by the Lord himself, v. 2. 3. as to remove her candlestick. 1. to dischurch her, as ch. 1. 20. for leaving her first love, and that speedily, except she repented, how can it be that the golden candlestick should still stand in Rome, and she remain the Church of Christ, which so many hundred years since, hath left not only her first love, but her first faith also? changing her faith into haere●y, and Idolatry, and her love into most bloody, & cruel persecutions against all that have endeavoured her repentance, and so hath continued a long space, and doth continue at this day. None but professed Romanists will plead, any Charter for Rome above other Churches. These things thus opened, and these two capital errors confuted, the former jewish, namely, that England now is, as judah was: and that as then, all the jews in that nation, so now all the English men in the King's dominions should constitute a national Church: the latter Popish, viz. that the Romish Church is the true visible body, or Church of Christ; it is evident, both that the Evangelical Churches must be new planted, or constituted, by profession of faith, as the temple, was new built, after the captivity of Babylon; as also that not josiahs' sword, that is the coactive laws of men, but Paul's word, even the preaching or publishing of the gospel, is the proper means, which the Lord hath sanctified for that purpose, though, I doubt not, but there both hath been, and is, great use of the Magist●●●●● authority for the furtherance of the gospel that way. When the Lord jesus purposed to advance the sceptre of his king ●●me, he sent out his Apostles, not furnished with sword, and ●p●●●, no● yet backed with human laws, or authority, but with ch●●ge, and commission, to publish, and declare his holy commandments, and the things which he had taught them, and thereby to 〈◊〉 Disciples, or gain subjects unto his kingdom▪ Math. 2●. 19 2●. which they also practised, admitting, and initia●ing m●n into ●●● Church upon their voluntary submission unto, and 〈◊〉 of the ●ayth of Christ. N●●●● unto ●●● be added a second consideration, namely, where, and, to ●●● a the Apostles were first to preach and to 〈◊〉 th● 〈◊〉 commission received from Christ, it will both g●ve light to the ●o●nt in hand and discover the vanity of a distinction in Mr B. ● book, to which he trusteth much, and therefore ●●th o●t, ●●r the gathering, and establishing of Churches after the P 〈…〉, by fy●●, and sword, without any further respect, than the magistrates authority▪ the sum whereof, as also of that he infers upon it, is, that to pag. 14●. 14●. 16●. a Church in the f●●●t 〈◊〉, that i●, as ●● expound himself, gathered of infidel's, and of such a people ●●●re no Church, 〈…〉, there is required preaching, and 〈◊〉 going b●fore with the word, and profession of the name of Christ: but for a people that are not infidels, but Christians (h●● corrupt soever) a●● a Church, ●● su●h preachi●● on the one side, n●● 〈◊〉 of ●●yth, on the other, is required: 〈…〉 compel with the fear of the sw●●●, the Magistrate, authority is sufficient in such a case▪ Let the Reader behold this bold man's gross ignorance, and contradictions, and if he will not open his eyes to see them▪ he m●y feel them with his hand, so palpable are they. I will lay them down in these particulars. ●●●st he affirmeth, pag. 176▪ that, the Lord ta●●s a pe●ple to be 〈…〉 and that commandments, are for his people to ●●●●●●●m, and n●t to make them 〈…〉 ma●s comma●ndeme●t mak●s not a servant, but declines such a one to be ●is ●●●vant already: and so he gives God not more power to command the wicked, and unbelievers, than a man hath to command another man's servant: and yet here he tells us, that before a people can become a Church, Paul must go with the word: and expressly, pag. 277. that the Lord, to make m●n his people, giveth t●em his word, and quotes, Math. 28. 19 to prove it. Secondly by this his distinction, and his inferences upon it, he makes all the jews, to whom john Baptist, Christ, and the Apostles preached, and which were baptized by them, or any of them, to have been Infidels before, and n● Church, no Christian●. And ●● he affirms directly, pag. 262. (though I suppose he considerate not) where, in answer to a proposition of Mr Aynsworthes, that the Churches of Christ were established of saints only, & men visibly 〈◊〉, confirmed amongst other scriptures, by Math. 3. 6. he peremptorily avouches, and so builds upon it, that that, proposition, & scripture, amongst the rest, is to be understood of a people, A●●. 1. 39 and 3 25. 1 ●●●. 1●. ●. 4. Eph. 3. 6 which is no Church & no Christians: & so the Church of the jews at that time, must be no Church, and they no Christians with this man, (for of them that scripture speaks) whatsoever Peter and Paul say to the contrary. Thirdly, since the Apostles being sent by Christ to teach, and make Disciples, were to begin their ministration amongst the jews in * I●d 24. 4●. A●●. 2. 1. 2. 5 6.— 14. ●●. 〈…〉 3. ●. 14. jerusalem, judea, and else where; (which is the consideration, I formerly mentioned) and so by the publishing of the gospel of faith, on their part, and by the profession of faith, and confession of sins on the people's part, to gather, and establish particular A●●. ●. ●●. Gal. 1. 21. Churches: and that the Church of the jews was at that time the Church of God, in respect of which, the establishing of these particular Churches was no new plantation, but a continuation of their former ingra●●ing in the same root, wherein they formerly were planted, not differing from it essentially, but being only reform, perfected, and otherwise ordered then before: it appeareth most untrue, which Mr B. affirmeth, that the preaching of the gospel is only necessarily required for the planting of Churches of such people, as were formerly infidels and no people of God. Fourthly, and lastly, even that which he most freely grants in one 146 pag. namely, that at the first, the word must be preached, and by that means men brought to a voluntary 〈◊〉 without compulsion, that he utterly reverses, and denies in the very next * 14. 7. pag where pleading the proclamation of Hezechiah, and compulsion of josiah, he annexeth to the same purpose as cunningly, as his wit will serve, an insinuation, that Mordecai (for fear of whom, he saith, many of the heathen (for such the people were) became jews) procured of the King proclamations, and other statutes, for the compelling of his subjects to the jewish religion: wherein he both perverts Est. ●. 4. the words, as the reader may see, and the meaning also of th● scripture▪ which is, that the heathen observing the mighty and mervelous hand of God for his people, and against his and their enemies, many of them became jews, and † Ezra. 6. 21. separated themselves unto them, from the 〈◊〉 of the heathen of the land, to seek the Lord God of Israel: as also in alleging to the same purpose, Luke 14. 23. as he doth in another place: borrowing (as it seems) the corrupt exposition of that scripture from the Ministers whom ●e draws in with him, in his * pag. 1●5. former book: of which more in due place. But that I may not be carried too far in this my digression, I do first deny, that the reformation by Queen Elizabeth (though great in itself and she for it, of blessed memory) did in any measure equalize the reformation made by Hezechiah, josiah, and N●he●yah, in whom you most insist Mr Bernard. For whereas all reformation respects either persons or things, that which was wrought by these godly Kings, and governors, receives testimony from the H. Ghost himself, to have been most full, and entire, both ways. And to let pass, for brevityes sake, the things themselves, with referring the reader to these and the like “ 2 King. 1●. 3. 4. 5. 6 2 Chr. 29. 2. 3. 5. 19 20. 21. etc. and 30. 1. 2 etc. and 31. 1. etc. scriptures, which handle that part, I will insist a little upon the persons, about whom the question here is, between Mr B. and me, in whom the other part of reformation is to be considered; which will better appear, if we compare together officers with officers, and people ● King. ●●. ●. and 23. 1. 2. 4. 5. 6. 7 8. 24. 25. with people. And first it is evident in the scriptures, that those Kings, & Princes of judah, did not appoint any other Priests, either for the purging of the temple, or for any other Priestly work, whither of reformation, or administration, than the Levites, whom the Lord 2 Chr. 3●. ●. 3. 4. 5. ●●3. had chosen to stand before him, to serve him, and to be his Minister's, and to ●●●●●ncense, 2 Chr. 29. 4. 5. 11. And therefore when some that pretended they were Levites, could not † Ezra. ● 61. by searching▪ find the writing of their genealogy, they wer● put from the priesthood: & for the Priests of the high places which had gone astray after Idols in the time of Apostasy, & served them, & caused the people to fall into iniquity, if they were not Levites, and called of God, but of jeroboams institution, they themselves were * 2 King. 23. 20. sacrificed upon the altars, with which they had so provoked the Lord: and though they were Levites, and the anointed of the Lord, and so had their lives spared upon their repentance, yet were they deposed from their holy ministration, and “ vers. 8. 9 came not near unto the Lord any more, ●er unto any of his holy things in the most holy place, but Ezech. 4▪ 10. 13. were to bear t●●●r shame, and their abhomm●tions, which they had wrought. But what answerable unto this can be brought forth in the reformation of the English judah? wherein the Priests of as ill an institution, or worse, than jeroboams, even the institution of Antichrist, were continued in the most solemn administrations: yea both those which had been ordained, and made in Queen mary's days, for their breaden God, and those which had fal● back from that profession of the truth they made in King Edward's days, and caused the people to fall into iniquity: (which makes the mischief much the greater) both they of the one kind & of the other, being for the most part, ignorant, profane, and popishly affected: as though either the sacrifice of the mass had been no Idol, or that the Lord had laid no shame, or other burden upon such Idolatrous Apostates, and seducers. Now for the people (entreating the reader to bear in mind what I have formerly manifested, as that neither the whole English nation ever was the Lords true visible Church, as the jewish nation was, nor if it were at the first could so remain in the deep Apostasy of Antichrist) I do add, that no man can by the word of God affirm the same things in any measure of the people of England in the beginning either of King Edward's or Queen Elizabeth's reign, which the scriptures d● of the people of the jews in the time of Hezechiah, josiah, Nehemiah, and other the like godly instruments of reformation. First for Hezechiahs' time, it appeareth that after † 2 Chr. ●9 5. 12. ●1. ●. the Levites ●ad sanctified themselves, and the house of the Lord, they offered after all solemn manner▪ ●s●●n offering for the kingdom, and for the sanctuary, and ●e●. 4. for judah: the King▪ and the congregation laying their hands upon the sacrifices, thereby confessing that they were guilty of death, and deriving their guilt upon the goats in figure, but upon Christ in truth, 〈…〉▪ 31▪ 35 36 whom they figured: and afterwards when the congregation was to ●●●●g sacrifices, and every one that was willing in heart, burnt offerings, it is said the burnt offerings ●●re many, yea so many, as the Priests were not able to s●●● them all: and that all the people rejoiced, that God had made the people 〈◊〉. Add unto this that which is written chap. 30. v. 11. 12. that d●●●rs of Ash●●. M●nasseth, and Z●bulun did submit themselves unto the counsel of Hezechiah, and that willingly, (for he had no authority over them at all) and came to jerusalem, of whom the Lord also testifieth that they † 〈…〉. prepared their whole heart to seek the Lord God, etc. and for judah▪ that the hand of God was with them, ●● that he gave them one heart to do the commandment of the King, and of the rulers, according to the word of the Lord: and lastly that the whole assembly kept the passover with joy, and that * 〈…〉 all the congregation both strangers, and those that dwelled in judah rejoiced with the Priests and Levites, who also blessing them, had their voice heard in heaven, and their prayer in the Lords holy habitation. And for josiahs' time, it is written, that, ● Chr 34▪ 30 31. 32 he, the Priests and all the people from the greatest to the s●●lest went up into the house of the Lord, & that he read in their ears all the words of the book of the covenant, and that he stood by his pillar, and made a covenant before the Lord, to walk after the Lord, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies, and his statutes, with all his heart etc. & caused, or appointed (for the word signifieth no more) all that were found in jerusalem and Benjamin to stand unto it: and that the inhabitants of jerusalem did according to the covenant of God, the God of their fathers. Thirdly for the estate of the people in Nehemiahs' time, with whom also I join Ezra in the work of reformation, first, it appeareth, 〈…〉. 2● that none were constrained to return to jerusalem for the building of the Lords house; but † 〈…〉. such amongst the people, as would, and with . whom their God was▪ were by the proclamation of Cyrus to return: and secondly that * Ezra and such as went with him did, before their journey, humble themselves by fasting before the Lord, for direction: and that, when they were come to jerusalem, there was much weeping and wailing by him for the sins of the people (especially for that great trespass they had committed, in taking strange wives of the people of the land) together with great manifestation, and practise of repentance, by all the congregation: and afterwards in the book of † 〈…〉 2. 3. 4. 5. ● 7. ●. 9 1●. ●7. Nehemiah, when all the people were assembled together in the ●●ry street, the same Ezra, and the Levites with him, read, and expounded the law ●● to them, to the great humbling of all the people at the first, and afterwards to the great rejoicing of them all, when they understood the words, which were taught them: and thus they practised every day, even from the ● 18. first day unto the last, all the seven days, whilst the f●●st 〈◊〉: and in the last place, and for the shutting up of all, confessing their sin●s, chap. ●. 1 2 ch. 1●. 1. 2● 29. and the iniquities of their fathers, with fasting, sackcloth, and earth upon them, they made a sure covenant, and w●●●●e it, sealed it, and swore unto it, the Princes, Levites, Priests, and people all that were separated from the people of the ●●●d▪ unto the law of God, their wives, sons, and daughters, all that could understand, the cheaf for the rest, that they would walkin God's law which was given by Moses the servant of God, to observe and d●e all the commandments of God, and his judgements, and statutes. Unto these former scriptures I will annex one other of the same nature with them, and respecting the case of reformation. It is recorded therefore of * 2 Chr. 14 2. ●. 4. Alia a godly King of judah having in the beginning of his reign, abolished idolatry, ●● the monuments of it, and commanded judah to se●k the Lord God of their fathers, etc. that afterwards upon the " ch. 1●. 8. 9 12. 13. 1● exhortation of the Prophets Azariah, & Obed, he not only went on with that work, but * assembled together all judah, & Benjamin & 〈…〉 which had 〈…〉 out of Israel, when they saw the Lord his God was with him▪ & that they made a covenant to seek the L. God of their fathers, with all their heart & with all 〈…〉 & that whosoever would not seek the L. God of 〈…〉, whether he were ●●●al or great, man or woman: & the same covenant with the Lord being confirmed by an oath, it is said, that all judah rejoiced at the 〈…〉 & the reason is added, for they had sworn unto the Lord with ●●● their 〈…〉, and fought him with a whole desire, & he was found of them. The Lord▪ as he had chosen this whole kingdom to be his people, and raised up this▪ and the like notable instruments of reformation amongst them, so did he upon this and the like occasions work a most wonderful, and extraordinary work upon them, bowing their hearts universally to the love of his word, for the present, and to the receiving of the same with joy, together with all readiness unto the obedience of his commandments: the like unto which never was, nor shallbe seen, to the end of the world in a whole kingdom except the Lord do again choose one nation from all other nations to be his people, as than he did. And I am verily persuaded that Mr B. (how bold soever he be in his affirmations) will not say the like of all England, either in the beginning, or end of King Edward's, or Queen Elizabeth's reign, which the scriptures themselves here, and else where, do testify, of all judah: whither we respect the disposition of the people whose hearts universally the Lord on his part did thus affect; or the solemn covenant, which they on theirs, did contract, or rather renew with him. And here I do further also infer, since all judah rejoiced at the oath of the covenant, and swore unto the Lord with all their heart, and sought him with a whole desire: 2 Chr. 15. 13. and that the hand of God was in judah, so that he gave them one heart to do the commandment of the King, and of the rulars according to the word of the Lord: Ch. 30. 12. and so at other times, that it is most untruly affirmed by Mr B. how oft soever he repeat it, that the reformation of judah was not voluntary, but of compulsion, and of fear. True it is, that the Kings of judah made compulsive laws for the reformation of the people, or rather for their continuance in that reformation, to which they had voluntarily submitted; but as Mr B. ignorance is intolerable in that his seditious error, tending indeed to the disturbance and subversion of all states civil, and ecclesiastical, that † voluntariness is taken away by being under any government: that Pag. 212. to be subject, and ruled is an estate far from freedom: and that Christians lose thereby christian liberty: so should he here have observed a difference betwixt compulsion active, and passive, as they speak: or more plainly thus, that it is one thing for Kings, or men in authority, to require of their subjects the performance of necessary duties or the forbearance of the contrary, upon such, and such penalties, and another thing for their subjects to obey them herein, for fear, and involuntarily. Many of the King's laws do require loyalty of all his subjects towards his majesty, and do forbid upon pain of death all treasons, & rebellions: now will any man hereupon be so unadvised, as to affirm, that therefore all the King's subjects do forbear treasons and rebellions, through compulsion, and fear, and unwillingly? That godly magistrates are by compulsion to repress public, & notable idolatry, as also to provide that the truth of God in his ordinance, be taught, and published in their dominions, I make no doubt; it may be also, it is not unlawful for them by some penalty, or other, to provoke their subjects universally unto hearing for their instruction, and conversion; yea to grant they may inflict the same upon them, if after due teaching, they offer not themselves unto the Church; but that any King now upon earth is by the word of God, to draw all the people of his nation into covenant with the Lord, (how much less before they be conveniently taught) and to confirm the same by oath, and to inflict death upon all that refuse it, or remain wicked▪ and unrepentant, as the Kings of judah were to do by the people of that nation, can never be proved by Mr B. or any other man, how oft soever they bring in their practices for precedents. And if the Kings of Engl. should hold it their duty, as the Kings of Israel held it theirs, to “ Ps. 101. 8 destroy all the wicked of the land, and to * 2 Chr. 15. 12. 13. slay all that would not seek the Lord God of Israel with all their heart, and with all their soul, whether great, or small, man or woman, & should practise accordingly, they would be left barer of subjects, than I hope they shallbe. To these considerations let this be added, that when David the most famous King of Israel had † 2 Sam. 5. 1. 2. 3. 5. subdued the nations round about him, and made them tributaries, and reigned over them, he did not force them into the Church by compulsive laws, nor take any such violent courses, that we read of. Neither can you shift of the matter, Mr B. by alleging that these nations were heathens, and infidels, and such as made no profession of religion, nor were circumcised: for amongst the rest over whom David ruled, the * ur 14. Edomites are named, which were the posterity of holy Abraham, as well as the Israelites, coming of Esau, as they of jaakob: who did also (besides many main truths) reteyn circumcision, and that true also, as well as the Papists reteyn true baptism; and by which they might as truly be deemed the Lords people, though in apostasy, as the Papists by the other. To end this argument of violence in religion, to which it is very unnatural; neither Hezechiah, nor josiah, nor any other King, either of judah or England had, or hath power from God to compel an apparent profane person (so remaining) either to join unto, or continue in the Church, and the Church so to receive, & continue him. The Kings of judah as I have showed, were to destroy, and put to death all such wicked ones, and so to weed them out of the Church, by the sword, according to the dispensation of those times, to what end then doth Mr B. bring in them, & their authority, either for the planting, or watering of such persons in the Church, for which purpose notwithstanding he produceth them. So for other Kings, though they be not to destroy all the wicked in their land, or nation, as not being to gather a national Church, so are they to use their authority for the preserving pure of the Church, & to see that wicked & flagitious persons be neither taken into, nor kept in the Ch: to the dishonour of God, & profanation of his ordinances. You speak much of the reformation of your Church after Popery. There was indeed a great reformation of things in your Church, but very little, of the Church, to speak truly, and properly. The people, as I have said, are the Church: and to make a reformed Church, there must be first a reformed people: and so there should have been with you by the preaching of repentance from dead works, and faith in Christ: that the people (as the Lord should have vouchsafed grace) being first fitted for, & made capable of the sacraments, and other ordinances, might afterwards have communicated in the pure use of them: for want of which, in stead of a pure use, there hath been, and is at this day a most profane abuse of them, to the great dishonour of Christ, and his gospel, and to the hardening of thousands in their impenitency. Others also endeavouring yet a further reformation, have sued, and do sue to Kings, and Queens, and Parliaments, for the rooting out of the Prelacy, and with it, of such other evil fruits as grow from that bitter root: and on the contrary to have the Ministry, government, and discipline of Christ set over the Parishes, as they stand: the first fruit of which reformation, (if it were obtained,) would be the further profanation of the more of God's ordinances upon such, as to whom they appertained not, and so the further provocation of his great Majesty unto anger, and indignation against all such, as so practised, or consented thereunto. Is it not strange that men in the reforming of a Church, should almost, or altogether forget the Church which is the people, or that they should labour to crown Christ a King over a people, whose Prophet he hath not first been? or to set him to rule by his law●s, & officers, over the professed subjects of Antichrist, & the Devil? or is it possible that ever they should submit to the discipline of Christ, which have not first been prepared, in some measure, by his holy doctrine, & taught with meekness to stoop unto his yoke? Both you Mr B: & they of the other sort do tell us oft of the reformed Churches, and of your agreement with them. I wish to God from my very heart, that both you, and they, would compare yourselves with them, in this principal point, unto which all other are but as accessaries. They after the abolition of Popery, were established at the first, whether by a new plantation (new we mean in respect of the present estate of Rome) or by reformation only, as you will have it: and are still continued, and increased by the free, voluntary, and personal profession of faith, and confession of sins of such men, and women, as are by the word of God, and the publishing of it, persuaded, and in some measure fore-fitted to join unto them, and walk with them: and all this without any compulsion with the fear of josiahs' sword, or Hezechiahs' proclamation, by pag. 246. 247. which you confess your Church to have been, in the persons of King Edward & Queen Elizabeth, brought back from Antichrist to the reformation wherein now you stand: for which you peremptorily profess, there is not required any profession of the name of Christ. Let it then be considered of, and judged by all indifferent men, how it can possibly be that both the reformed Churches abroad, and the unreformed Church of England, can be truly gathered, after the apostasy of Antichrist: the former being separated from Popety into covenant with the Lord, in the particular members, by voluntary profession of faith without compulsion; and the latter by compulsion, without profession of faith. Howsoever government, & freedom, or voluntarynes, be not contrary according to your most ignorant affirmation; yet compulsion, and voluntarines are; and contraries cannot stand together and be made true, no not by God himself. My hope was that (the argument of compulsion once ended,) I might, with good leave, have returned to the former book: but see, after so many proving, and professings of Rome a true Church, & still in covenant with God, & that the Churches now separating from her, were not to be gathered of such voluntaries, as in the first plantation, nor needed the preaching of the word to go before for their conversion, but that the Magistrate might compel them by fear, and that so the reformation of the Church of England was wrought, Mr B. now tells us a clean contrary tale, and that their reformation was voluntary, and not constrained, and how that pag. 145. came about. First, (to let pass the succession of the Church he pleads from King Etheldred, King of Kent, of which I have spoken so lately, as the reader may bear mine answer in mind) that the Queen's Majesty with many others, began a voluntary reformation, and that the supreme power Mr. B. (as he calls it) being gathered, made proclamation of her godly intent, which was a kind of teaching to which the people yielded voluntarily, for any thing that any man can say to the contrary: and pag. 245. adjoined themselves unto them, and that the act of the chief doing it voluntarily, is to be accounted the act of all, though the inferiors come not to consent, for proof of which he quoteth three scriptures, Ex. 19 3. 7. 8. josh. 4. 2. 8. 2 Chr. 14. 2. A solid proof; because the Queen did voluntarily embrace the Answ. truth in a measure, therefore the whole body of the land, whom she urged by proclamation, and other enforcements, did voluntarily profess, and embrace the same. For touching the supreme power gathered, that is, the Counsel, & Nobles, when she came to the crown they were such, as had immediately before both enacted, and executed most bloody statutes against such as voluntarily professed the truth, and where you, and the Ministers with you, pag. 187. affirm that the body of the land did in Queen Elizabeth's time adjoin themselves unto that company which had stood out in Queen Mary's days, it is clean otherwise, for they that so stood out adjoined themselves to the rest in the several Parishes, where their houses stood, and occasions lay, under the formerly masse-preists, & then for the most part, ignorant and profane priests, with their English reformed mass-book. In adding further, that the Queen's proclamation was a kind of teaching, you trifle notably: the question is of such a teaching, as was effectual to make a whole nation of Antichristians the week before, true Christians, and a true Church. It was in deed the only effectual means the people had generally: and if the Queen had proclaimed the contrary the next week, it would have been as effectual to have turned them to their former vomit again. Your presumption, that no man can say to the contrary, but that the people yielded voluntarily to the truth, upon the Queen's proclamation is vain, considering what the † 2 Cor. 9 13. voluntary yeeling, or submission unto the Gospel of Christ is, which the scriptures commend unto us, in the establishing of Churches. The gospel is a supernatural thing, and cannot possibly be yielded unto voluntarily by a natural man, or persuaded, but by a supernatural motive, which is only itself: & that by the operation of the spirit also in some measure, it cannot be understood, and believed but by itself published, and proclaimed (as the sun is seen by it own light) much less can it be willed, and willingly yielded unto: for the will must follow the understanding, neither can any man will that he knows not. Besides, the many treasons▪ and great rebellions raised to re-establish Popery in the land, the great good liking of the old law (as they term it) which still is found in the multitude, and the apparent hatred and persecution against the true profession of the gospel in any measure, (though there be ten now for one in the beginning of the Queen's reign that have attained to some measure of knowledge and conscience of godliness) do confirm that which I say, viz: that the yielding unto the gospel in the multitude, could not be voluntary. The three scriptures you bring to show, that the agreement of the chief is accounted in the case of faith, and religion the act of all, though the inferiors give not their consent, is by you egregiously perverted; for they do all & every one of them plainly prove the people's consent. The first is Exod. 19 3. 7. 8. where v: 3. the Lord signifies his will unto Moses, and v: 7. Moses propounds the same things unto the Elders, and v: 8. all the people (viz having the same things by the Elders propounded to them, as junius upon that place, (and so will any man of common sense) noteth, promise obedience to all the Lords commandments. The second place is josh. 4. 2. 8. where it is evident to him that reads the scripture quoted with it, that which is written, ch. 3. 9 and Deut. 27. 1. 2 3. etc. that the twelve men that took the twelve stones out of the midst of lorden for a memorial of the people's safe passing over, did it with the distinct knowledge, and actual consent of the multitude, and of all the people, as is said, v: 1. who are also expressly commanded by joshua, v: 2. of the same chapt: and v: 12. of the chapt: before going to choose, or take these twelve men for the purpose before named. Lastly for 2. Chron. 14 as ●t is true, that Asa the King did provoke the rest to seek the Lord, both by his example and authority, so is it as true, that the people sought the Lord their God with him, and as untrue that any did by v. 7. his power, obey, in fear, as you affirm. The Lord himself testifies expressly against you, and that all judah, & Benjamin assembled in jerusalem, ●h. 15. 9 10 12. 15. and made a covenant to seek the Lord God of their fathers with all their heart, and with all their soul; of whom also it is witnessed accordingly, that, they swore unto the Lord with all their heart, and sought him with a whole desire. And for the point itself, howsoever in bodily things, the people may refer themselves to the determinations of their superiors, and may bind themselves to rest in them, as in their own acts, though they neither take knowledge of, nor give consent unto the things in particular, yea though they be to their bodily damage: yet in the matters of faith, and religion, it is clean otherwise, and to hold the same proportion is a very popish error, which makes the governors Lords over the people's faith. And thus at the last am I got back whence I digressed, & will now proceed in the examination of such reasons, as Mr B: brings to prove that profane persons, or to use his own words, men of lewd conversation, are not false matter of the Church. To which purpose, he first distinguisheth true matter into good, and bad; and so taking that which is bad, & nought unto himself, for the matter of his Church, he will yet have it true, and no false matter. And this distinction of his, he labours to exemplify by similitude, and to confirm by example. The similitude he borrows from a material house, and the matter of it, timber, & stone, which makes either nothing to the matter in hand, or if any thing, against himself. If there can possibly be any false matter of an house, than rotten timber is false matter: and so wicked and unrepentant sinners dead, and rotting in the grave of sin, are false matter in proportion: but if there can be no false matter of a material house, than he may see how maimed his comparison is, when the terms of the one side are impossible. Howsoever it is evident, that the house of God, the Church is a † 1 Pet. 2. 5 spiritual house made of lively stones, * 1 Cor. 15. 45. Ephe. 2. 20. built upon that lifegiving foundation Christ jesus. And as a man, (or other living creature) being once become dead naturally, cannot be called a true man naturally, so neither can a man spiritually dead in trespasses, and sins, be called a true man spiritually, and therefore not true matter of that spiritual house the Church. The things you further add, namely, that all Churches have in Mr B. them good, and bad matter, that men deserving justly to be cast out, are not false matter, nor so cast out of the Church, but as bad matter, but true: that excommunicates are still brethren by their profession; are all of them so many devises of your own without proof, or truth. For first it is not true, that all Churches (which you take for Answ. such) have in them good matter: for there may be by your own grant, true Churches by their profession, consisting only of wicked persons, which you acknowledge bad matter, though true; and there are full many parish Churches in Engl: wherein, he that should be put to find any good matter, yea one holy and sanctified man, had need with the Cynic Philosopher, seek it, o● him, with a candle at noon day, neither is it true on the other side, that all Churches have in them bad matter: there are Churches in the world, wherein (by the mercy of God, and power of his ordinances) there is no visible bad matter, that is, no person of known lewd conversation: else God forbid. You wrong the Churches of Christ, and deceive the Christian reader, where in the shutting up of this point, you persuade him, that he shall find, ever cause thus to Pag. 116. be affected, and to grieve, (viz at lewd persons in the Church) wheresoever he comes. He may, and aught to come, where there is no such cause of grief, nor (by the grace of our God assisting us) shallbe, without reformation; though you measure others by your own line. Now for the second point, nothing can be more untruly affirmed, then that the Church may cast out any part, or parcel of her true matter. For first, all the true matter of the Church hath upon it the form of the Church, and so is of the essence, and being of the Church, which for the Church to cast out, were to destroy her own essence, & being. Secondly, the true matter of the Church, and true members of Christ, are the same. As † 1 Cor. 3. 11. Christ is called the foundation of the house, they of the Church, are the matter of the building: as he is called * Ephe. 1. ●2. 23. the head of his body, they are his members: whom to excommunicate, is to deliver unto Satan, 1 Cor. 5. 5. whereupon I do necessarily infer, that if to excommunicate be to deliver to Satan, and that the Church may lawfully excommunicate wicked persons, and that wicked persons be true matter, and that true matter be true members of Christ's body, then may the Church lawfully deliver to Satan the true members of Christ's body, which I abhor to write. And though your Ordinaries Mr B. be oft times so liberal of the true members of Christ, as thus to deliver them to the Devil, yet had the Ministers of Christ rather have their own members torn from their bodies, than thus to dismemthe blessed body of the Lord jesus. The heinousness of this fact shows the vanity of your distinction, the error of your opinion, and the falsity of your Church. Lastly you do mistake the two scriptures, which you bring to prove, that a man justly excommunicate is still called a brother in the scriptures, and so to be held by the Church. The Apostle in the former place, 2 Th. 3. 15. speaks not of a man excommunicated, no● worthy to be excommunicated neither: but of such a person, as follows not his calling faithfully as he ought, but, being negligent in his own, is to busy in other men's matters: whom he wills the brethren to mark, and no way to countenance in suc● walking, but on the contrary to show their dislike of it, that he may see it, and be ashamed of it: and this he that reads over the chapter, shall observe (I suppose) to be the Apostles meaning. In the second place, which is, 1 Cor. 5. 11. his meaning is, not, that Christians becoming fornicators, covetous, Idolaters, and so continuing obstinate, should still be reputed brethren notwithstanding, but he speaks of a brother there, as Ezechiel speaks of a righteous man, chapt. 18. 24. that turns away from his righteousness and commits in●quity, and doth according to all the abomination of the wicked, etc. and as truly may it be affirmed, that the person Ezechiel speaks of, is still to be reputed a righteous man, as that he, of whom Paul speaks, is still to be accounted a brother. Both the Prophet, and Apostle speaks of such persons, ●s were righteous, and brethren reputatively, before they did so bastardly degenerate. And is it possible, that Christ should charge his Ch: to account an obstinate offender, as an heathen and publican, Mat. 18. and that Paul should come after, and direct them to account him a brother? Besides † Math. 23 8. all the members of the Church are brethren: and to become a member is to become a brother, and so to be excommunicated out of the Church is nothing else but to be cast out of the Church's brotherhood. Lastly, the Apostle, 1 Cor. 5. 11. names idolaters amongst the rest; and will you have idolaters your brethren, Mr B? why then did you in the former pag. exclude Papists, and pag. 108. idolaters universally? A holy brotherhood it seems you will have, brother idolater, haeretique, and what not? The instance you bring of Simon Magus an hypocrite received by the Apostle, (by the Evangelist you should say) Act. 8. makes strongly against you, if it be well considered, what is written of him. For after he was discovered by Peter not to have his heart right in the sight of God, he was pronounced by him to have neither part, nor fellowship in that business. ver: 21. Now if Philip had discerned thus much by him at the first, do you think he would have acknowledged him for a partner in it? or have given the seal of the forgiveness of sins, of new birth, and of salvation (as you truly prove baptism to be pag. 119.) to such a blank? nay would be have profaned the Lords holy things upon such a dog or swine, contrary to the express commandment of Christ, Math. 7. 6. Cease Mr B. to excuse yourself by accusing the holy Apostles, and Evangelists of Christ. And hereupon I do thus argue. They that have no right to the holy things of God in the Ch: are not to be admitted into it, neither is the Church gathered of such persons, rightly, and truly gathered. But men of lewd conversation have no right to the holy things of God in the Church; and therefore the Church gathered of such persons, is not truly gathered. The former proposition is clear, because men admitted into the Church, are admitted to the participation, and communion of the holy things of God in the Church. The 2. also appeareth, both by the scripture before named, where Peter pronounceth, that, such as have not their heart right with God, (which no lewd persons have or ever had) have no part in the holy things of God, as also by Mr Bernard's own grant, namely, that wicked persons are to be cast out of the Church. And what could there be in the world more ridiculous, yea or wherein God were more plainly mocked, then to gather a Church of such persons, as are judged fit to be cast out of the Church? And yet for this Church-gathering (being indeed his own) Mr B: pleads both here, and every where, both in this, and his other book. In the next place come in certain popular similitudes, to colour over that rotten error, which can by no reason, or scripture, be made sound: in number three, which I will consider in order. I. Two persons are lawfully married by public profession and mutual cor●●nt: Mr. B. now though the wise perform not her covenant, but prove unfaithful, yet is she still a true wis●, till the bill of divorcement be given out. I grant it: but see you not, how you take the thing for granted, Answ. which we deny, namely, that your national Church is the true wife of Christ? Since he divorced his ancient wife the nation of the jews, he never married, nor will marry, nation more: much less, (which is more specially to be considered) did he ever marry for his lawful wife the profane multitudes of unhallowed Atheists wherewith, as you confess in the beginning of your book your Church aboundeth. Hath Christ commanded his † 2 Cor. 6. 14. people not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers? and will he yoke himself with them, & with Atheists, & other wicked persons? which are in deed † 1 Tim. ●. 8. Tit. 1. 15. jam. 2. 17. 20. infidels, & unbelievers, whatsoever they profess in word, though you in your 2 book Mr B. do with defiance avouch the contrary. The same Apostle in an other place affirmeth that, * 2 Cor. 6. 15. 16. he which coupleth himself with an harlot, is one body with her: & forbids the faithful, as a most impious thing, to make the members of Christ, the members of an▪ harlot: and will Christ make himself the head of harlots, thiefs, murderers, blasphemers, and the like? or become one body with them, he the head, and they the members, as it is betwixt him, and his Church, 1 Cor. 10. 17. & 12. 12. 27. Lastly, no Woman having a former husband alive, may take a second, or be lawfully married unto him: but wicked & profane persons have a former husband yet living, even the law, or sin taking occasion by the law, to work in them all manner of lust, & ruling over them as the husband over the wife, to which also they are bound, as the wife unto the husband: Rom. 7. 1. 2. 3. 5. 8. & therefore cannot be married unto Christ, nor become his wife. The 2. similitude followeth. II. A man professing obedience to a king as his alone sovereign, and obeying Mr B. his laws in the general, though he transgress in some things openly, & greatly, is that King's true subject notwithstanding. You deal unfaithfully, & put the case wrong. The question is of a Answ. man professing himself in word the King's loyal subject, & his alone, but in deed, & truth, the sworn slave of his professed enemy, & an apparent rebel against the King's majesty. And whether such a one be a true subject unto the King or no: for such, and no better, are wicked, & profane men, whatsoever in word they profess, even slaves, and vassals of the Devil, and rank rebels against the L. jesus. Right now you would have Rome a true Church, & now you will have Jesuits the Kings true subjects: for such they profess themselves, as boldly, as falsely. And yet no Romish Priest, or jesuit is more treacherous to the King's person, & state, then is a profane ungoldly man professing Christianity, to the crown, & dignity of Christ jesus. The 3. resemblance is of a man professing one only trade, though bunglingly, III. or carelessly, whom none will call a false tradesman, but either no good Mr B. tradesman, or unprofitable, yet truly that tradesman by his profession. Here, as before, you mis-put the case; you should instance in a Answ. man professing a trade or faculty, but practising the contrary in his general course. For example, a man professeth himself▪ in word a surgeon, or physician, but is observed, and found in deed and practice, to poison men, and cut their throats, and this to be his resolved course. Now so charitable is Mr B. as he will have this man still called, and that truly, a Physician, or surgeon, though not good, nor profitable. But the truth is, he is a false, and treacherous homicide, and murderer, and so to be abhorred of all, but of none either to be called, or accounted a true physician, or surgeon, either good, or evil. Such a one, and no better is he to his own soul, that under the profession of Christianity in word, practiseth wickedness, and impiety, and hath his conversation in them. The author, having thus ended his defence for the bad and naughty matter of his Church, so granted by him, in effect, comes to speak of false matter: but so briefly, and darkly withal, as it appears plainly, he is loath to meddle with it, least in the handling, his bad matter should prove false matter, as it comes to pass with counterfeit coin. That he saith than is, that false matter is contrary to this true matter, that is to the true matter, of which he hath spoken. Whereupon it followeth, that since the true matter, he hath spoken of, is wicked, and ungodly men, though professing Christ▪ and that holy, and godly men are contrary to men wicked, & ungodly, that therefore godly and holy men are contrary to the true matter of his Church, and so by his reckoning, false matter. To conclude this point. What is false, but that which hath an appearance of truth, but not the truth itself, whereof it makes show? in which respect the scriptures also speak of false Christ's, false Prophets, false Apostles, false brethren, false witnesses, false balances, and the like: pretending themselves to be that which they are not, and to have that truth in them, which they have not: of all which, there is none more truly false, nor more fitly so called, than that man is, and is called truly a false christian, or false matter of the Church, which 〈◊〉 in word he looks to be saved by jesus Christ, and yet continues in a lewd, and wicked conversation † 2 Tim. 3. ●. having a show of godliness, but denying the power thereof: and * Tit. 1. 16. professing the knowledge of God, but by works denying him. Whereupon I do also conclude, that the body of the Church of England being gathered generally▪ and for the most part of such members visibly, cannot be the true visible body of Christ, except a true living body can be compact of false, and dead members. That which comes next into consideration, in M● B: order, is the visible form of the Church; as he calls it, which he makes (& truly) the uniting of us unto God, & one to another visibly, & in his † pag. 277. 2. book, the covenant, by which Godsets up a people to be his people, and they him mutually to be their God. This description he illustrateth by a similitude borrowed from a material building, whose form ariseth from the coupling together of the stones upon the foundation: which he also further manifesteth, by comparing it with the form of the invisible Church, by which the faithful are united to God, through Christ invisibly, and one unto another. Of the terms of which comparison, and their proportion, we shall speak by, and by. I do only in the mean while entreat the reader to observe with me these two things. The former, that, Mr B: having in the beginning of his book censured us very severely, and that with D. Allisons' concurring testimony, for misapplying 1 Pet. 2. 5. to the visible Church, which said they, was meant of the invisible Church, here notwithstanding he interprets it of the visible Church, even as we do. The latter, that speaking of the invisible Church, and the form of it, he brings in sundry scriptures, as so to be expounded, which are apparently intended of the visible Church: & amongst the rest these three. Ephe. 2. 22. and 4. 4. 1 Cor. 12. 13. the last of which he himself also within a few pages following expounds as meant of pag. 125. the visible Church, and the properties thereof. Now for the comparison betwixt the form of the invisible, and visible Church▪ wherein if Mr B. observed due proportion, and made the form of the visible Church the same visibly, externally, & in respect of men, which he doth the form of the invisible Church invisibly, internally, and in respect of God, and so laid down things in simple, and plain terms, the truth in the point would easily appear, & much needles labour be spared on both sides. The form of the invisible Church he noteth, first, and on God's part to be raised, by the spirit, by which invisible hand, God taketh men immediately by the heart, and ●●● B. saith he willbe th●●● God: 2. and on man's part, by ●aith, by which invisible hand the believers do take hold of the promise of the spirit, believing that they are his people, and he their God: and that thru God and man are invisibly united▪ and 3. by love, by which men take hold one of another and so are united together invisibly. And all this he confirms sufficiently by the scriptures. Answerable unto which 3. invisible hands for this invisible union, he makes 3. visible hands for the visible union: 1. unto the spirit, the word: 2. unto faith, the profission of faith: 3. unto love, the sacrament of the Lords supper: for ●o he proportioneth them. The colour of truth, which these things may seem to have in their mutual reference, will ●ub off in the very touching of the particulars. But if Mr B. would ha●e observed just proportion, and have set things down plainly, he should have said thus, or to this effect. As the invisible, internal, and effectual union of God with man, of man with God, and of one man with another is raised from the invisible, internal, and effectual work of the spirit, invisible, internal, and effectual faith, and love, which are only seen, and known of God, and of the parties themselves, in whom they are; so must the visible, external, and apparent union of God with man, of man with God, and of one man with an other, arise from the visible, external, and apparent work of the spirit; visible, external, and apparent faith, and love, which are seen of men, and made sensible to the eye of charity, which judgeth probably of things which are not seen, by the things which are seen. For albeit, it be true, which Mr B. hath in his 2. book, that we pag. 136. are not therefore a Church of God, because men so judge us, but because God hath received us into covenant with himself; yet it must also be considered, that the Church is not called visible in respect of God, but of men, to whom it doth, or may appear, & by whom it is so discerned, and judged probably. The scriptures do speak of a † Ro●. 3. a●●●. justification before God, which is by ●aith alone; and of “ jam. 2. a justification before men, which is by work●: the former of which we may truly call invisible justification, as known to none but God, and the conscience of the party levied: the other visible justification, as being manifest, and made visible unto men, by works, as ver: 18. of the Chapter before named, where the Apostle speaketh of showing, manifesting, or making visible faith▪ and so consequently justification; by works. And look what is here said of visible, and invisible faith, and justification, the same from other scriptures compared together may be affirmed of visible, and invisible election, redemption, sanctification; as also of visible, and invisible saints for the matter; and of the visible and invisible union for the form of the visible, and invisible Church: the invisible being certain, infallible, and so known to be, of God: the visible, moral, probable, and so appearing unto men. There is in deed, and in the right disposition of things by the revealed will of God, but * Cant. 6. 8. Ephe. 4. 4. & 1. 22. 23 Act. 20. 28. one Church of Christ, which is his body, whereof he is the head, and which he hath purchased with his blood: for Christ hath not purchased two Churches with his blood, but one, neither is the head of two bodies, but of one: and according to this purchase of Christ, and ordinance of God, all that are of the visible Church are also of the invisible, and all of the invisible of the visible Church, which are indeed not two, but one Church, in two sundry respects, as I have formerly showed. I deny not, but that, as it hath been said of old, there are many sheep without, and many wolves within: many of the visible Church, which are not of the invisible Church, and so answerably, many of the invisible Church, which never come into the visible Church. But this say I, is not according to the revealed will of God, in his word; but by man's default, and sin. It is their sin of ignorance or infirmity, which (being of the invisible Church) do not, (if possibly they can) join themselves unto the visible Church, there to partake in the visible ordinances: it is their sin of hypocrisy, and presumption, which not being of the invisible Church; do adjoin themselves to the visible Church, there to profane the Lords covenant, & ordinances, to which they have no right. For how can they being wicked, and unholy, challenge the LORD to be their GOD, that is, all happiness, & goodness, unto them, which is one part of the covenant. or profess themselves to be his people, which is another part? when the Devil is their God, and their lusts; and they his, & their people, and servants, to whom they obey? or what have they to do to meddle with God's covenant, whom he expressly forbids to take it in their mouths? It is therefore a vile & profane defence, which you are driven to, Mr B: by pleading, that wicked persons are true matter of the Church, and so admitted into covenant with God, in the 2. book; that obedience only follows the covenant pag. 279. as the fruit of it: and that God requires not actual obedience, or that we should be actually good, or holy, before, or when we covenant with him: but that he should make us good; and that we should be good, and perform actual obedience afterward; which as it is notable Anabaptistry, and in deed the ground of that heresy being applied to the covenant of the jewish Church: so being applied to the covenant of the Church now, it is worse than Anabaptistry. And consider this man, he makes the sacrament of the Lords supper a ground, and part of the covenant, and yet affirms, that God for men's entering into this covenant, requires not that they should be holy, and good: and so by this deep divinity, it must needs follow, that the Lord requires not that men should be good, or holy for their partaking in the sacrament of the Lords supper. The particulars now follow, in which you place this visible union, and covenant of the Lord with his people, of them with him, and of one of them with another. The first whereof is his word, which (say you) is the only first visible note, and testimony from God, by Mr B. which he makes a people his people. Ps. 147. 19 Rom. 3. 1. 2. joh. 17▪ 6. and so you go on to prove, that this word is God's outstretched hand to subdue people unto him: the sword of the spirit by which he smiteth: the immortal seed, by which he begetteth, and maketh alive: the word of reconciliation, by which he reconcileth his Church, and people. And thereupon you conclude, that to whomsoever God sends his word, to them he testifieth his love, and desire to make them his Church, and people. To let pass the repugnancy in your words, as first, where you Answ. speak of the only first note, as though there could possibly be more firsts then one: and 2. where you make the word a note, and testimony, by which God makes a people his people: whereas notes and testimonies do not make that to be, which is not, but do show and declare it to be already. I do answer, that as it is true, that where God sends his word, there ●e testifieth his love; and is desirous, that is, in respect of the outward offer of the means to make such a people his Church; so is it most untrue, that to whomsoever God sends his word, and testifyes his desire outwardly to make them his people, and Church, that those he makes his Church, and people, or unites himself visibly unto them. The uniting of God unto men is an effect of the word, which it always hath not upon them to whom it is sent. external efficients do never prove & argue their effects necessarily, except they work naturally, and infallibly also, which the wor● doth not, but morally, and according to the good pleasure, and blessing of the Lord upon it. It is as you truly say, Mr B. the outstretched hand of the Lord in itself, but it doth not unite the Lord to any, except he take hold of them with it: it is in itself hat▪ immortal seed, but may fall upon † Math. 13. 19 the very high way, and so have no good effect at all, either in truth or appearance: the messengers of it are the Lords mouth unto them to whom it is sent, but all receive not this message to whom it comes; * Mat. 22. 4. 5. 6. some make light of it, & neglect it, others do evilly entreat them that bring it, hating, reviling, and persecuting both them and it. Act. 13. 45. and 17. 18. Now will you say that God strikes hands with these men, & on his part enters covenant with them actually, because his word is published amongst them? The inward, and invisible hand of the spirit must not only be stretched out by the Lord, but must seize, and take hold of the heart, and be effectual invisibly, and internally, before this invisible union be made on the Lord's part: so must the Lords outward, and visible hand, his word, not only be stretched out, but also seize, and take hold of the outward man, at the least, and be effectual visibly, and externally upon him, before the Lord can be said on his part to have contracted any visible union. In the next place comes the visible hand of man, by which he on Mr R. his part c●tracts with God, & enters covenant with him visibly: & that Mr B. makes the open profession of faith unto the doctrine taught, which such as make, he saith, have visibly taken hold of the word, & struc●en hands with God. You make much of nothing Mr B. or of that which is worse than Answ. nothing. Even now the profession of faith made the true matter of the Church; and here it must make the true form of the Church: and yet the truth is, that in the forming of your national English Church by a new covenant from that wherein it stood in Popery, which was by your own grant, with Saints and Angels in stead of God, &, I add, with Antichrist, in the stead of Christ, no such profession of faith was made, as yourself here do both require, and prove necessary for the forming of the visible Church, or her uniting with God. And that I manifest in two particulars. The former is▪ that the profession of faith required for a people's uniting with the Lord their God, must be made both freely, and particularly by the persons themselves so uniting. And this appears both by that which you have said of Gods giving, or sending his word, which is his visible outstretched hand, by which he offereth reconciliation unto men personally, and so by consequent requires that they stretch out the hand of personal profession to him: and also by the scriptures alleged by you; all which do give witness of such a confession of faith, and sins, as was freely made by the persons themselves particularly, which were joined to the Church. Let the reader take knowledge of these scriptures amongst the rest. Mat. ●. 6. Act. 2. 38. 1 Cor. 1●. 1. 2. the profession of faith noted in the scriptures by you produced, was not made by men of lewd conversation, or apparently unsanctified (of whom alone, and their union with God our question is) but by men visibly, and externally holy; and such, as all of them were, visibly, and so far as men in charity could judge, justified, sanctified, and entitled to the promises of salvation, and life eternal. The scriptures are (besides the th' 〈…〉 last named, Math. 3. 6. Act. 2. 38. with which compare vers. 3●▪ 41 47. 1 Cor. 15. 1.) Mat. 10. 40. 41. & 32. Act. 8. 12. 13. 37. 38. 1 Cor. 6. 1●. Col. 2. 11. 12. Tit. 3. 5. Who but you Mr Bernard would thus wrong either these scriptures as justifying the admission of lewd persons, deserving to be excommunicated, into the Ch: or the Apostles of Christ for admitting, or baptizing such? And yet these persons are the true bad matter, for which you pleaded so much formerly: and which here by these scriptures, you would bring into a true bad union with God. For of these for the most part, hath the nation always consisted, and of these your Ch: was gathered at the first, when it became national, & so hath stood form ever since. The 3. & last thing for the perfecting of this visible covenant, & vn●ing of the members one to another, M. B. makes, the holy sacrament Mr B. of the L. supper, which a● it is a seal of our faith, so i● i● a testimony of that visible com●●●ion of love, also of one member with another. 1 Cor. 10. 16. 17. You confound all things in saying the sacrament makes the covenaunt; Answ. which is a seal of it, and praesupposeth both the covenant, and the Church, whereof it is an ordinance. The covenant must be before the Church, and the Church before the sacrament: how then can the sacrament make the Church? And where you further call it an holy sacrament, a seal of ●aith, a testimony of the visible communion of love, & of one member with another, you speak the truth, but not truly: such it is in itself, & in the right administration, & use of it: but not in the profane abuse of it upon wicked men, of whom we speak: and for whom, & their uniting with Christ you here plead. Upon whom whilst you, & the rest of the ministers of your Church, do profane it, as you do, the more holy it is in itself, the more unholy is your fact, & the more heinous your sin. It is as you say, the seal of faith, and of the forgiveness of sins through faith to the penitent, & believers, but is it therefore so, & such to apparently impenitent, & unbelieving persons? it is in itself a testimony of the communion of love: but is it so unto, & among the wicked? or is it not in that abuse made a lying witness to testify, & witness love, where apparent hatred, and malice reigns against God, & good men? It is an outward pledge, or symbol of the communion which the faithful have with Christ, (for of that the Apostle speaketh 1 Cor. 10. 16. 17. directly) and so by consequence, one with another: & because it unites Christ the head with his own members, & one of them with another, doth it therefore unite Christ or his true members, with the true apparent visible limbs of the Devil, which all ungodly men and women are? This is the force of Mr Br. arguments. Because the L. supper is of this or that use unto them, to whom by the word of God it apperteyns, therefore it hath or must be judged to have the same use amongst them which are apparent usurpers of it, and to whom by the word of God it apperteyns not. There is nothing more common in both his books, than this kind of deceitful arguing. Here is yet an Arg: of comparison to be taken knowledge, & considered of; & the rather because the author both wills the reader to note it, in the margin, and repeats it himself over & over, in the text. The Argument is, that, a● continual sins & corruptions of the hart● of Mr B. the elect, do not make them false Christians before God, or no true invisible members of Christ: so neither do outward offences, or corruptions, m●k open professors of the saith, false Christians before men, or no true visible members of Christ. True, no more; due proportion observed: namely, tha● Answ. those outward offences do not reign in the mortal bodies of men, ●● the inward corruptions do not reign in the hearts of the elect. But let the reader here remember the subject of the question, which is, men of lewd conversation, and deserving to be excommunicated, and then the noting of Mr B. Arg: willbe like David● noting the Amal●kites tidings of the death of S●ul, and jonathan, to the destruction 2 Sam. 1. of him that brought them. For by the same rule of proportion I argue thus. As they in whose hearts, sins, and corruptions reign inwardly, are no true Christians before God, nor actual members of Christ invisibly: so they in whose lives, and conversations, sins and corruptions reign outwardly, are no true Christians before men nor members of Christ visibly. And here comes to my mind an other argument much what like this, in Mr B. 2. book: where he will have a mixed company of godly, and wicked persons to be called holy, or a company of saints, as well as a person, holy, in whom there is a mixture of the spirit, and flesh. But the difference is plain. In this mixed body of godly, & wicked, sin reigns in some of the members but in no part of body, or faculty of soul of a person, in whom the spirit is, (though never so much flesh be mingled with it) doth sin reign. He might as well say, the whole Church so mixed shallbe saved: for the whole man shallbe saved, by faith in Christ, notwithstanding all mixture in him. Now the conclusion Mr B. makes, that, their congregations profess Christ, as is before said; that God hath given them his holy word, and sacraments: & moved the hearts of all of them outwardly to receive both the one, and the other, is unproved, and untrue. For first, there is no one congregation in the Land whose particular members made that holy profession in any measure, by & according to which the Apostles did constitute and unite visible congregations. Secondly, I deny that the Lord hath given his sacraments to any congregation in the Land: there are very many in the best ordered parishes, which take them without the Lords gift: as being wicked usurpers of them, unto which by the revealed will of God they have no right. But here I must needs discover Mr Bernard's haunt, and the turning, by which in his second book he usually declines both Mr Ainsworths' & Mr Smyths Arguments of this nature: and that is, by telling them, that all are not wicked amongst them, that some, or many have the true knowledge of God's word: and that the fear of God possesseth the hearts of many: as in pag. 249. 250. etc. this place, that God hath moved the hearts of many of the people effectually, and the like: and that therefore we do them wrong in condemning all for some: and in denying the good their right, for others default. To this I answer first that those that can be truly judged to fear God, are thin strewed in the best places: and not many in comparison of the rest, as is pretended, but a very small handful: and beside, it is but casual, and accidental to the congregation, and nothing to the constitution of it, that there is one man truly fearing God in it. The parish must be a true vivisible constituted Church, as well one as another, and so receive the sacraments together, whether the Lord have had any such work (as is here spoken of) in the hearts of any, or no. And 2. it must be considered, & I pray the teader well to observe it, that the question here betwixt Mr B. and me (and so ordinarily betwixt him, and them) is about the congregation (which consists of all the members jointly) and not about some particulars considered severally from the rest, of whom the congregation consists not. I am verily persuaded there are in many congregations many that truly fear God: (and the Lord increase their number, and graces) and if they were separated from the rest into visible communion, I should not doubt to account them such congregations, as unto which God had given his sacraments: but take them as they are even one with the rest, in one joint communion, as members of one body, making all together one Church, & congregation, so joined at the first, and so still remaining, I deny that this Church, or congregation is the Lords people in covenaunt with him: or that he hath given unto it his sacraments: yea or that those, which truly fear God, & are accepted of him in their persons, have in that communion, the right, and lawful use of them in many particulars. They cannot take them for pawns and pledges of God's love, and the forgiveness of sins, to that congregation, wherewith they join in the use of them: nor as testimonies of true spiritual love amongst the persons communicating in them: nor as notes & badges of distinction, of that assembly, from all profane & unhallowed assemblies in the world. And yet are all these common ends, and uses of the sacrament, as it is a communion, or common union of the members with the head, and one with another mutually. Since therefore your congregations, or parish assemblies are (& always have been) so constituted, as that neither the greatest part of them (being profane) have any interest in the sacraments, or can have any right use of them in their persons, nor yet the rest in their communion: it must needs follow, (except the Lord have given his sacraments to them, which can have no right use of them, and to whom they apperteyn not) that the Lord hath not given his holy sacraments to your congregations. And where you further add, that God hath moved the hearts of all the people of your congregations outwardly to receive both the word, and sacraments, it is one, amongst the rest of your bold, but bare affirmations. Are there not many thousands amongst you that understand not Heb. 6. 1. the doctrine of the beginning of Christ, the very first principles of christian religion? And hath God persuaded the hearts of these to receive the word & sacraments in any sense? The Lord jesus teacheth us in the gospel that † joh. 3. 20. every man that doth evil, hateth the light, neither cometh to light, lest his deeds should be reproved. And yet you will have us believe, that God hath persuaded the hearts of all the evildoers amongst you, not only to come to the light, but also to receive it. Let your own parish Mr B: stand for instance. There were in it (to mine own knowledge) when you wrote this book, that held most blasphemous errors touching the very Trinity; and there are at this day, (as I am certainly informed) who are so moved to receive the word, as that your Churchwardens are driven to spend a great part of the Lords day in hunting them from the alehouse to the temple. And if this be your case, what is the condition of the most congregations in the Land, to which the word of God hath not so much as been offered in any indifferent measure for the moving of their hearts to receive it? The truth is, the people are drawn in the most congregations, the most of them, and many in all, by compulsive laws, to keep their Parish Church, to hear divine service, to communicate at Easter, and to receive the sacraments, and other rites: as is commanded in the communion book: but how far the most are from having their hearts thus moved, as is pretended of all, to receive the word of God, appeareth too evidently in that great contempt, and hatred wherein they have such amongst themselves, as do in any sincerity either preach or profess the same. To these things I may further add, that, since the Lord hath given his word and sacraments to be dispensed to no people, but by the means which he hath prescribed in his word▪ except the English priesthood, and leitourgy were prescribed by the word of God, for these ministrations, even in this respect God cannot be ●ayd to have given his word, and sacraments to the congregations spoken of. Now although this which hath been said in answer to your grounds, be sufficient to disprove the form of your Church, as you yourself Mr B. raise it, yet for your further conviction, I will add certain Arguments to manifest, and make plain, that wicked, and ungodly men, and women are uncapable, by the word of the Lord, of his covenaunt, and of all spiritual visible union with him; & so consequently your congregations (gathered of such persons at the first, and of such still consisting generally, with a handful godly minded scattered amongst them) to remain unformed, by the Lords holy covenant. The Arguments are, First, because godly, and wicked men are contraries, as being I. guided, and led by contrary causes, the one sort by * Gal. 5. 1●. the spirit, and the other by the fl●sh, which are contrary one unto another. Now two contraries are not capable of one, and the same form. Wicked men, and such as † Psal. 50. 16. 17. hate to be reform are forbidden, by II. the revealed will of God, from meddling with his covenant, or ordinances: and therefore are not by the revealed will of God received into covenant with him, or to the participation of his ordinances▪ which are both one. Since wicked men are by the word of God (as you yourself III. grant) to be excommunicated, that is to be cut off from the visible union with Christ and his Church, how can they be said by the same word of God, to be capable of this union with Christ and his Church? nothing can be either more unreasonably affirmed, or more ungodly practised. Lastly, the scriptures do expressly debar men of lewd, and ungodly FOUR conversation, of all fellowship, union, and communion with God. If we say, that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not truly, saith the Apostle, joh. 1. Ep: 1. 6. and what fellowship saith Paul, hath righteousness with unrighteousness? & what communion hath light with darkness? and what concord hath Christ with Bel● ill? or what part hath the believer with the unbeliever, or infidel? etc. 2 Cor. 6. 14. 15. 16. 17. 18. The former of these scriptures is so directly against you, as if it were recorded by the holy Ghost with particular respect to your error. You say that men though of a lewd conversation, that is, walking in darkness, have visible fellowship, union, and communion with God, if they profess they believe in Christ, or so say; john on the contrary teacheth that they which walk in darkness, have no fellowship with God, though they so say, but are liars. The other scripture must be further opened, and enforced: considering how you charge us in your 2. book with the wretched abuse of it; and labour by a long discourse pag. 140. to wring it out of our hands: as being our special weapon (as you say) to fight for separation, and to defend the same. The four heads under which you reduce all the particulars about it, I will prosecute in order, as they are by you laid down. 1. the occasion. 2. the scope. 3. the matter entreated of. 4. the persons spoken of. For the first, it is true you affirm of the Christian Corinthians Mr B. going to the idol feasts in the idol temples at the bidding of their friends, and kinsfolks the heathen Corinthians: which I also acknowledge to have Answ. been the main, and most immediate occasion of the Apostles writing, as he doth, but not the only occasion. There was a former occasion of that, namely their marrying with the unbelievers, & their † ver. 14. unequal yoking with them that way: by which the other mischief was occasioned amongst them, as it had been with other the servants of God before them, from the beginning of the world. Gen. 6. 2. In which respect therefore the Lord in the law forbade † Exod. 34. 16. the Israelites to take of the daughters of the heathen unto their sons, lest they provoked them to go whoring after their Gods: which when they neglected, and mingled themselves with Idolaters in marriage, they presently fell into that monstrous mixture in religion, against which the Apostle dealeth, Numb. 25. 1 King. 11. 1. 2. 3. 4. Ezra 9 1. 2. But where for the clearing of yourselves of the very occasion, you do add, that you dwell not in civil society with idolaters, but under a Christian King, and with a people professing Christ, where no public Idols are set up, nor any feasting in honour of them, you follow your old fashion of bold boasting without measure, or modesty. Do you not live in civil society with the Idolaters? Have you no Papists in your kingdom? I may say in your Parish? or are Papists become no idolaters with you, as Rome was right now no false Church, nor Jesuits false subjects? The face of your charity Mr B. is so full set towards Rome, and Papists, as no marvel though you be so unequal towards us, as you are. The truth is, you are in the most strait bond of civil society with Popish idolaters, that may be. There is nothing more common amongst them of your Church, then to join in marriage with them: neither is there (to my knowledge) amongst all your canons any one against this▪ profane commixture. Neither is it any thing you speak of living under a Christian King, or with a people professing Christ: for idolaters may live under a Christian King, and profess Christ too in a measure, as both many others, and all antichristian idolaters do. Yea I have formerly manifested, that you live not only in civil, but even in religious society with Papists, and you yourself grant as much of Atheists in the beginning of your book: and will you say that visible Atheists are true visible matter of the Church, and capable, by the word of God, of true visible fellowship, and communion with Christ, and the true members of his body? The scope of ●e scripture followeth, which, say you, i● that the believing Mr B. Corint●ians may have no fellowship with the infidels, and unbelievers, to their evil works; but that they reprove, condemn, hate, and avoid them. Belike than they might have had fellowship with them in any Answ. good work: and so if any of the heathen, or infidel Corinthians would have communicated with the Christian Corinthians in the sacraments, or prayer, they might not have refused their fellowship, or communion herein. For by your exposition the Apostle only forbids partaking with them in evil works & the works of darkness. Of which more hereafter. And here in our names you frame an objection, the sum whereof is, that if all the godly would separate from all the wicked, then there should be no wicked of the Church. Unto which you answer sundry things: but how sufficiently will appear in the particulars. First you say, God commands not his to separate wholly from all the wicked: but from Infidels, Gentiles, Idolaters; jews, Turks, Papists, whose very societies are to be left as no people of God. Well then, I perceive, all religious fellowship with Papists is unlawful, and that their societies are no people of God. And how agrees this with your other affirmations, that Rome is a true Church: Papists true Christians, though under corruptions, as it was true job, though under soars: baptism there, a true sacrament, and seal of the covenaunt; & yet here the societies of Papists are no people of God, that is in no covenant with him? Or how doth this separation thus wholly to be made from Papists agree with that you write, pag. 91. of joining in prayer with such Papists, as though they be of the Church of Rome, yet sorrow for the abominations, and as are come out from it in their souls, the best part, though not so in their bodies? The distinction you put between Infidels, and idolaters, and men of profane life, we shall consider of in due place: & for your speech of all the Church falling into the estate of infidelity, and so ●●dged of the Church, either it is without sense, or I, which understand it not. Now to that you add of separating from the private familiarity of the wicked, living in the society of the godly, and that, if they will not be reform, other courses are to be taken with them, as their sin of obstinacy deserves, I answer these things. First, that, as there is a case, wherein private withdrawing from a brother is warrantable, namely, when his offence is private, and he privately obstinate, & that his sin either cannot be, or is not yet made public, & publicly evinced: so to separate from men privately, and that only, for public offences, is a course without ground either of scripture, or rea son. You say, pag. 144. that (alvin so expounds 1 Cor. 5. 11. and thereupon do take an occasion to accuse our practice as Brownistical, & us of Luciferian schism, & Pharisaical pride. As I leave your railings to be judged by the Lord, so do I give the reader to understand, how you grossly abuse Calvins' authority: who expounds that scripture (as all men know it is meant) of excommunicates, and of men's private carriage towards them: with which, public separation is also to be joined: I suppose you yourself will not deny it. And where you speak of an other course to be taken with wicked men, that will not be reform, you should also show what that course is, and what is to be done, if that course be not taken: but you have thought it a point of your wisdom to be silent in these things lest by opening them too particularly, you should discover your own shame. The course to be taken is, the censuring of such incorrigible offenders by the particular congregation, whereof they are, being gathered together in the name of Christ, by the power of Christ; with which 1 Cor. 5. power divine, and heavenly privilege, he hath furnished his Churches every one of them, as well as that one of Corinth; neither doth any true Church of Christ want this power, or neglect the use of it without sin. And if any Church of Christ would neglect to use this power against scandalous sin manifestly proved, and convinced, & would obstinately continue (notwithstanding all good means used to the contrary) this sour leaven unpurged out, the whole lump were leavened, and with leaven might not the Passeover be eaten. And as the Church, if sin do arise, is first to endeavour the casting out of the sin by the sinner's repentance, and if that will not be, in the last place to cast out the sin, and sinner together: so if the Church do wickedly bear out, and bolster iniquity amongst themselves, such as are faithful are first to quit themselves of that Church-sin by testifying against it, and reproving it, and in the last place to quit themselves of the Church, if it remain incurable. Now here you bring in certain differences, & distinctions of separation, but without application. The first I omit as being before handled, so much as concerns the present purpose. The 2. difference is between the wicked remaining among the godly, & the godly being▪ of the fellowship of the wicked: this differece I acknowledge, & withal affirm, that the latter part of it notes out the estate of your national Church: wherein a few godly minded in comparison, live in the fellowship of a wicked, and sinful nation. And if persons excommunicate by the Church be not of her fellowship, then certainly the number of the godly in your fellowship is very small: since your national Church representative, the convocation house (whose Act also pag. 147. you avouch to be the Act of all the Church, & so to be accounted) doth pronounce ipso facto excommunicated all that do affirm either the ceremonies of the Church, or government by Arch Bishops, Bishops, Deans, Archdeacon's, and the rest, to be Antichristian, Canon 4. 6 7. 8. or the books either of common prayer, or of consecrating Bishops, Priests, and Deacons, to contain in them any thing unlawful, or repugnant to the word of God. Your third distinction I pass by as impertinent: and the fourth, as being already handled, save only that in the end of it you bite at us, as you go, for separating from God's ordinances in the Church, for some wicked men's sake. But you know Mr B. that we do not deem your Church-government, worship, ministry, and ministrations to be God's ordinances: nor your Church in that confusion, wherein it was gathered, & consisteth, to be rightly possessed of the ordinances which it enjoys: no nor that any person how godly minded soever, can have the right use of God's ordinances, in your assemblies, as they are public joint exercises of the communion of the body. In the fifth, and last difference, you speak of godly men's breaking society with themselves, because of some wicked persons. To which point I answer thus much; since the L. jesus hath given his Churches both power, and charge to put from among them such wicked persons, as do arise, and appear incorrigible; and hath also taught by his Apostle, that the neglect of this duty levens the whole lump: that they which countenance, and continue in the Church such wicked persons against the godly zealous, which endeavour their reformation, that they I say, do break the society of the godly with themselves, and do rather make choice of the society of the wicked, whom they thus bolster, and bear out. In the 3. place we are to consider of the matter entreated of, and found fault with by the Apostle, 2 Cor. 6. which you say, is in sum Mr B. thus much: believers are not to be with the wicked in their unrighteousness, in the state of their darkness, nor to partake with them in their evils, and so to agree together: which no way helps our separation from light, righteousness, etc. It is true that the particular matter the Apostle finds fault Answ: with, is, the believing Corinthians communicating with the unbelievers in the idol feasts: but withal it must be considered, that the Apostle upon this particular occasion delivers a general doctrine, than which nothing is more usual both in the old, & new testament. The same Apostle in his former Epistle to the same Corinthians takes occasion from the fornicator among them, to forbid them the companying, or commingling not only with fornicators, but with covetous persons, Idolaters, railers, drunkards, extortioners, & all other wicked men whomsoever, ch. ●. 1. 11. so in this place, he takes occasion from their communicating with Idolaters in the Idolathytes, and the uncleanness thence arising, to enjoin them separation from all other uncleanness whether of persons, or things, as the whole tenor of the scripture manifesteth. More particularly: though the Apostle (as you would have it) did only forbid partaking with the wicked in their evils, yet even therein did he forbid all religious communion with them since their very prayers, and other sacrifices are their evils: wherein whilst the godly do communicate with them, what do they else but acknowledge their common right, and interest in those holy things? But that the Apostle in this scripture forbids communion not only in the evil works of wicked men, but with their persons: and that he commands a separation not only real, but personal, doth appear by these Reasons. First, because the scripture hath reference to the yoking of the ay, believers with the unbelievers in marriage, as the occasion of that spiritual Idolatrous mixture, which he reproves. Now this joining was not in an evil, or unlawful thing, but with wicked, and unlawful persons. 2. The very terms, believers, unbelievers: light, darkness: Christ, Beliall, II. do import opposition not of things only, but of persons also, for the things sake. So the faithful are called * Cor. ●. 21 righteousness, † Math. ●. 14. light, & as they are light, so are the ungodly “ Eph. 5. ●. darkness: and so not only their works but their persons are called. 3. The Apostle forbids all unlawful communion in this place: but there is an unlawful communion of the faithful with the wicked, III. in things lawful: as with excommunicates, Idolaters, heretics, or any other flagitious persons, in the sacraments, prayer, & other religious exercises in the respects formerly by me laid down: whereupon it was, that the jews were to separate themselves not only from the manners of the heathen, but even from their persons. Ezra. 9 1. 2. & 10. 2. 3 Nehem. 9 2. & 10. 28. 30. and that Paul reproves the Corinthians, Epist. 1. Chap. 5. for having fellowship not in the persons incest, but with the incestuous person: whom therefore they were to purge out, & to put away from among themselves. vers. 5. 7. 13. Fourthly, the Apostle enjoins such a separation, as upon which FOUR a people is to be reputed God's people, the temple of the living God, & may challenge his promise to be their God, to dwell among them, & to walk vers. 16. 17. there. And as, for the temple, where the Lord promised to dwell, the timber, and stones, whereof it was to be built, were to be selected, and separated from all the trees in the for●est, and stones in the rock, and to be hewed, and squared accordingly, and so to be set together in that comely order, which was prescribed: so, that this spiritual house, or temple, the Church now, may have the promise of God's presence, and dwelling there, it must be framed of spiritual stones, and timber first separated from the rest, & then fitted and prepared by that axe, or sword of the spirit, the word of God, and so coupled, and combined together in due order, and proportion. Besides, it is evident, that the holy Ghost hath reference in this place to the people of the jews, which was separated from all other peoples, and persons in the world: as appeareth, Lev. 20. 24. and 26. 11. 12. therein noting out what must be the course, and condition of the “ G●●. 6. 16 Israel of God to the world's end. But here Mr Bern. excepts against our exposition of these places pag. 136. of Levit▪ and the like, as miserably wrested, and falsely applied to our separation. For by Gods separating them from other people, is meant, saith he, Mr B. a setting apart of Abraham's posterity to a special service of God, and therein to be a people differing from all the world. And by other people is meant such as worshipped not the true God; which is nothing to them that worship jesus Christ, etc. but no Israelites to separate from other Israelites, which were even then when Moses thus spoke of separation, a corrupt people a●●●g themselves. And is this your righting of our wrest Mr B? Elsewhere you Answ. tell us, that the Lord separates a people from others, and takes them to be his before he so much as command them any thing▪ and here the pag. 176. Lord sets a people apart to be his, and separates them from others in respect of some special piece of service appointed them. The things you speak are contrary, but neither of them true. The Lord never did, nor will take people unto him, but by their submission, and obedience unto his commandments: and for that special † R●. 9 4. service of God enjoined the Israelites, it was an effect of their separation from other people, and covenaunt with God: and no cause by, or for which, they became the Lords separated people. We must always consider the Church of God principally, and properly in the persons of men, and secondarily in their works: as we must first consider the “ Isa. 5. ●. 7 Math. 21. 33. 34. vineyard in the trees, and afterwards in the fruits they bring forth. And so was Israel separated, and set apart from other people. Your addition, tha● by other people, is meant such as worshipped n●●●he true God, which is nothing to you which worship jesus Christ, etc. and that there is no place to prove that Israelites were to separate from other Israelites, for their corruptions, as false matter, is like that which goes before. For first, Papists, and Anabaptists, with Idolaters, and Heretics many more, do worship jesus Christ; from whose societies notwithstanding you profess separation. 2. The Ismaelites, & Edomites, did worship the true God, though not after a true manner, and yet the Israelites were a people separated from them: so as an Edomite (though he had voluntarily joined himself to the people of God) might not bear any public office amongst them, to the third generation, which you too ignorantly expound▪ pag. 248▪ of his admission into the Church. Yea I do further add, that even Israelites, and those which came of Israel, or jaakob, were commanded to separate themselves from Israelites, and that for an usurpation in the ministry, as the scriptures make it plain, Num. 16. as afterwards also upon jeroboams defection in the ministry, worship, & holy days, which he forged in his own heart. 2 Chron. 11. 13. 14. 15. 16. with ● King. 12. 28. 29. 30. 31. 32. And thus is the exposition cleared, against your frivolous exceptions of such scriptures in Levit: and else where as make mention of the separation of the jewish nation from all other nations: which do fitly also serve to confirm, & justify the separation of all the Churches in the new testament from such people and assemblies in all nations, as of whom the Lord by his revealed will cannot besaid to accept, as I am sure he cannot profane, and godless persons. Now because▪ the issue of all controversies depends upon the true exposition of the scriptures, whose letter men will bring on both sides: and that Mr B. takes special exception in this place against the expositions we give of such scriptures, as seem to us most material for our separation: I will therefore take in his exceptions, as I return whence I came, and make manifest, as God enableth me, the insufficiency of them. The next place that comes into consideration is, Act. 2▪ 40. where, ●ayth Mr B. Peter speaks to the jews of such jews, as denied Christ, & Mr B. renounced the very foundation, even jesus Christ, which is (if we will believe him) nothing to them that profesie him to be the true Messias. It seems then that separation is not to be made from the Papists, Answ. for they hold I●sus Christ to be the true Messias, & the very foundation: yea even the merit of their works do they found upon the merit of Christ's obedience: derogating less in truth (though far too much) from them virtue of his priesthood, than you do in the constitution of your Church from the dignity of his kingdom in the outward government, & administration of it. 2. Your national Church is so far from being separated from them, that deny Christ, as it is indeed, for substance, compact, and gathered of such▪ to wit of impure, and profane persons, who whatsoever they do profess ●● word do deny in deed, and visibly both “ ●●●. 2. 15. 16. 〈◊〉 4. God, and our Lord jesus Christ, as the scriptures do expressly testify. And to deny that apparent wicked and profane men, or Churches, do raise the foundation of religion, is a profane error, tending to libertivism: and which foundeth all religion, and Christianity in the brain, and nothing in the heart. Lastly Peter's exhortation upon the occasion in hand, was, that the faithful jews should separate from that froward generation: whereupon the general doctrine is rightly raised, that the faithful at all times must be separated from all froward generations. And of this duty we are to make the greater conscience, considering the words of the Apostle, which are, that we save ourselves from such froward generations: as indeed (considering the duty we owe unto our brethren for their humbling, if they be froward in sin; the discomfort we have in continuing communion with them; the want of that godly furtherance we should have by our brethren in our holy communion: and lastly the danger wherein we stand, either to be corrupted by them, or at least to have our zeal, and other graces of God decayed in us) our salvation doth not a little consist in our departure from the assembly of the profane, as Beza rightly notes upon this scripture. Of the same nature with the former place is the next in order; where the Apostle Paul both departs himself, & separates the disciples from such as were hardened, and would not obey, but spoke evil of the way of the Lord before the multitude. Act. 19 8. 9 But this, you say, proves not our purpose: and your exceptions are, First, that our way is not the way of God; 2. that if is were, yet we Mr B. have not spoken to all your Church, & made it known to all, nor have found all hard hearted: and 3. that the place teacheth separation from such obstinate wicked, which will not be won to the Church: and that▪ here is a departing of some true members of the Church, from such as be not the Church, but not of members of the true Church, forsaking members of the true Church. That our way is the way of God, appeareth by this very scripture Answ. amongst many others: wherein also we have both the reformists at home, and reformed Churches abroad giving testimony with us for the substance of it. But put the case ours be not, yet if the way of the reformed Churches be the way of God, our separation is justified by this scripture. For first, your convocation house & Church representative is hardened against the way of the reformed Churches, blaspheming, and persecuting it, and all them that either seek, or plead for it. And their act, being the chief, is, by your own grant, to be accounted the act of all, though the rest come not Pag. 145. to consent: so that you are all, by your own words, to be accounted a disobedient, and hardened people, upon the former praemises, namely, that the way of the reformed Churches, is the way of God. But howsoever it be either with us, or them▪ yet if that “ Mat. 7. narrow way, whereof Christ speaks, that leads unto life, be the way of God, then surely there are thousands in your national Church, & many in every parish Ch: in the kingdom, which speak evil of the way of God, yea hate and persecute it to the utmost of their power, and all them, that endeavour in any uprightness to walk in it. Whereof you yourself also Mr B. in former days have had experience: though for the opposing, reviling, and persecuting of us, you▪ and they agreed well, & like Herod, & pilate were made friends. Now if we separate from all them which thus disobey, and speak evil of the way of God, we know too well, we can have no communion with any assembly in the Land. Lastly, you are greatly overseen in saying that Paul's separation was not from the Church, nor members of the true Church. It was from the Church of the jews, & the members of that Church with whom formerly he had held commanion, as the true Church of God; which for this their disobedience, Rom. 11. and unbelief, were broken off, and so afterwards in deed to be reputed. One scripture more remains to be considered of, and that is Ioh: 17 ver. 6. 9 14. 15. 16. whence we believe, and confess, that the true visible Church of Christ is gathered by separation from the world, and the men of the world visibly. Against this our exposition Mr B. excepts, and will have this place understood of Mr B. the elect only, that are ordained to life: & of invisible members: & of men as they are holy before God: rating us, as egregious deceitful abusers of this scripture, in applying it to the visible members, or Church. But most unjustly as appears by these three plain reasons. Answ. First, because judas was one of them, whom the Father had given I. unto Christ out of the world, whom alone of all them so given him, he had lost, that the scripture might be fulfilled. vers. 6. 12. whence it is evident to all men, that do not blind their eyes, that Christ here speaks of such a donation, or gift, as was visible, or of such members as were visibly, and in respect of men separated, & sanctified from the world unto God, and not at all of any invisible gift, or members. Secondly, Christ speaks of such persons as the world hated, because II. they were not of the world: ver. 14. but the wicked world doth not hate men, as they are elect before God, and invisibly, or inwardly separated, and sanctified, but as they are outwardly such, and so separated, whether they be inwardly so, or no. Lastly, Christ speaks of such a choosing out of the world, as III. he doth of a sending into the world, ver. 18. which sending as it was visible, and external, so was the selection, and separation spoken of. And say not for shame, Mr B. that the visible Church of Christ is to be gathered, or consist of the men of the world visibly. The Church, and world are two distinct, yea two contrary states, and bodies, though the body of your national Church were at the first gathered, and hath over since consisted of the world, and all. To conclude, this light man, being pressed by Mr Ainsworth in another place of his book with this scripture, both affirms, & Pag. 254. proves by many reasons, that Christ here speaks of a mixed company, which the elect are not. And howsoever his reasons be not only unsound, but indeed ungodly, wherein he affirms Christ to have been in respect of men the mediator of Paul, whilst Mat. 27. 24. 17. with Luk. 23. 34. he continued a persecutor, and of others wicked in respect of men, yea of pilate, and the soldiers, pagans, and infidels, because he prayed for them, (whereas Christ prayer for them was no proper effect of his Mediatorship for his body, except we hold universal redemption, and make the whole world his body, but a most perfect demonstration of his love towards his enemies, left also for a pattern unto us, to the world's end) yet do they, with that he there labours to prove by them, compared with his affirmation of the contrary, in this place, manifest his great both weakness, and lightness in the things he affirms. And thus I return to the exposition of 2 Cor. 6. and in it to prove, that the Apostles meaning is to forbid communion, and fellowship not only with wicked works, but also with the wicked persons themselves that walk in them. For which purpose I do add this one only consideration: namely that the Prophet Isaiah (from whom the Apostle borroweth this phrase, come out from among them, vers. 17. separate yourselves, and touch none unclean thing, and I will receive you) doth not so properly speak of the departure, or separation, which the Priests were to make from the sins of the Babylonians, as from their coasts, and persons: thereby teaching all Christians, which are that spiritual house, and holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Christ, 1 Pet. ●. 8. Rev. 1. 6. that their separation, and departure must be spiritually, as theirs was civilly, not only from the sins of spiritual Babylonians, or other unbelievers, and unclean persons, but even from their persons also, and from all personal communion with them. And as in the type, he that touched a dead man, or leper, or him that had an issue upon him, or other unclean person, or was by him touched, was legally unclean, & polluted, as well as he that touched, or was touched by any unclean thing whatsoever: Levit. 5. 7. 11. so in the thing typed, and truth, he that toucheth, or is touched by a man spiritually dead in sins, or that hath an issue of sin, or spiritual leprosy running upon him, he is spiritually polluted and defiled. Now without touching cannot the numbers of the same body, and one of 1 Cor. 12. 2. 13. 27. another possibly consist. But were it, as we would have it, that not only the works, but even the workers of wickedness were to be avoided for their works sake▪ yet doth Mr B. take a double exception against our interpretation of this scripture. The former is, that it serves not our Mr B. turn, except we prove them all to live in darkness, in unrighteousness, to be in league with the Devil. etc. I do answer, that if light and darkness, believers and unbelievers, Answ. Christ and Beliall, must have no fellowship together, then must the believers, and they that are in Christ forbear fellowship with all unbelievers, & men of Beliall, so continuing incorrigible: & if any believers, or Christians will notwithstanding still combyne with unbelievers, and godless men, it is their sin thus to confound the order which God hath set in separating from the faithful, with whom he hath joined them, by joining with the unbelievers, & unfaithful, from whom he hath † 1 Cor. 4. 7. separated them; yea I add, in doviding Christ from himself, and uniting him with Beliall, & the Devil, in his members, what in them lieth. To conclude, what reason hath Mr B. thus to object, that all which are amongst them, live not in darkness, and that all are not in league with the Devil, considering, that by his own exposition of this place, the very societies of Papists are to be left as no people of God, and yet all Papists live not in darkness, as here he understands it, nor are in league with the devil: neither in deed had they need, considering what league of spiritual communion he professeth else where he will have with many of them. Mr B. 2. objection, is, (which he also makes the 4. head of his Mr B. division) that there is no proportion betwixt the persons here mentioned, to be separated from, being infidels, and such as were no members of the Church, and Gentiles, that had entertained no profession of Christ, on the one side: and the members of the Church on the other side: and that the consequence follows not from infidels, Heathens, Pagans, Idolaters, led by the Devil, to Christians professing Christ, though in life not answerable to their profession. Even now you justified separation from Papists by this scripture: Answ. and here you restreyn it unto Infidels, and Gentiles, that had not entertained any profession of Christ: as though Papists were infidels, or without all profession of Christ, which is contrary both to truth, and to your own express affirmation * pag. 132. 225. 226. every where. But my answer is, that howsoever infidelity, and Idolatry be two grievous sins, and which do principally separate those which continue in them, from God, & his Church, yet not they alone, but any other transgressions as well as they, obstinately stood in, do raise this brickwall of separation: as is manifest in the scriptures. And first, the Apostle in this very place disjoines righteousness & I. unrighteousness, light & darkness, as far a sunder, as believers & unbelievers, as the temple of God & Idols: in which former also, the union betwixt Christ & Belial is as monstrous, as in the latter. Unto which I do also add, that Mr B. in this very place, debarring infidels, and idolaters from being matter of the true Church, Rom. 8. 14. Gal. 5. 15. 2 Tim 2. 26. 1 joh. ●3. 8. lays this down as a cause, or reason, that they are led by the Devil: whereupon it followeth, that since none other wicked men are led by Christ, but all by the Devil, aswell as they, that none other can be matter of the true Church, more than they. And that some persons led by the Devil should be matter of the Church, and some not, is a distinction not found in the scriptures, but devised for a remedy against the iniquities of the times, and for the avoiding of trouble, and dissipation. I●. Secondly, as the scriptures do every where denounce the same judgements upon other wicked men, and upon idolaters, and infidels; for example, that, as well he † Ezech. 18 & 11. 12. 13. that de●ileth his neighbour's wife, or oppresseth the poor, or gives forth upon usury, shall die the death, as he that eats upon the mountains, or lifts up his eyes unto the Idols: and that aswell “ Rev. 22. 1●. see also chap●. 2●. 8. whoremongers, un●rtherers, and such as love, or make lies▪ as Idolaters, shallbe without the heavenly jerusalem: so do they also both warrant, & direct us the same course of walking towards the one, and other. The Lord jesus, Mat. 18. 17. enjoins the Church to account every obstinate offender as an Heathen. And the Apostle Paul gives the Corinthians in charge as much to avoid † 1 Cor. 5. 11. form●atours, covetous persons, railers, drunkers, and extortioners, as Idolaters. And no marvel, for * Ephe. 5. 5. covetous persons are Idolaters; and so are carnal men, Idolaters, making * Phil. 3. 19 their belly their God. Unto these add, that the same Apostle unto ‘* Ch: 1. 15 16. T●tus calls unholy, and profane persons (what profession of God soever they make) † 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. unbelievers, or Infidels, which are the same. Which scripture I wish the Reader to observe in respect of Mr B. bold challenge of all the Brownists in the world to sh●w the term, or name of unbelievers to be given to such as are not become absolute Apostates from Christ. Pag. 2●▪ ●. Lastly, unto that which Mr B. objecteth in the fifth, and last place against our exposition of this scripture to the Corinth: for our separation, namely that at this very time, when the Apostles thus Mr B. writ, there were of them which did partake with the heathen that they were a mixed company, among whom were dissensions, envying, open incest, drunkenness at the Lords supper, fornication, wantonness, men denying the resurrection, I do give this answer. As there was this mixture in the Church at this time, so doth Answ. the Apostle most severely reprove the same. For the incestuous man suffered uncensured, he pronounceth the whole lump leavened, 1. Epist. 5. chapt: For th● abuse of the Lords supper, that they came together not with profit, but with hurt, chap. 11. 17. where I entreat the reader also to take knowledge of the counsel, which upon that occasion Beza gives in his Annotations upon ver. 31. which is, that we try, and examine ourselves, by faith, and repentance, separating ourselves from the wick●d. For this very sin here spoken of▪ namely their partaking with Idols in the Idolothytes, that they could not partake of the Lords supper. “ 1 Cor. 10 21. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord, & the cup of Devils. You cannot be partakers of the Lords table, & of the table of Devils. And in this very place about which we now contend, that except they separated themselves, & left this their ungodly mixture, they could not have the promise of the Lord, that he would dwell among them, and walk there, & that he would be their God, and have them his people, ver. 16. And doth the holy Ghost in leaving these things recorded give any countenance to a mixed company? or can you from hence either take unto yourself, or give unto others any comfort in your, or their confused walking? Will you make yourself a medicine of their poison? or a plaster of their ulcers? You are a physician of no value. Besides, it must be considered, that all the evils mentioned amongst the Corinthians were contrary to their constitution, and so many aberrations, and defections from that estate, and condition wherein the the Ch: was gathered. It is evident that Paul † 1 Cor. 3. 6. 9 planted the Ch: at Corinth, he being God's labourer, and it Gods husbandry. Now who dare open so profane a mouth, as to affirm, that this faithful labourer would plant the Lords vineyard with such imps, or gather unto him a Church of any such slagitious persons, as fornicators, drunkers, incestuous men, or such as denied the resurrection? But what is this to your national Church, which was constituted, and gathered, for the greatest part, of fornicators, drunkards, blasphemers and the like? with such wild branches was your vineyard planted. Thus much of our interpretation, & application of 2 Cor. 6. I will here only add one argument more to prove your national Church uncapable of the new covenant, or testament, by which you yourself do grant, and truly, the Church of Christ to be form. The Prophet jeremy spe●king in the name of the Lord, of the calling of the Gentiles into the new covenaunt, or testament, as the author to the Hebrews expoundeth him, testifieth, that with whom soever the Lord would make that † ●ere. 31. 3● 33. 34. Heb 8. 8. 10. 11. 12. testament, or covenant, he would put his law in their mind, and write them in their heart, and so be their God, and make them his people: and that they should all know him from the least to the greatest, and that he would be merciful unto their s●●nes, and remember their iniquities no more. But your national Ch: never came within the compass of this promise, that all in it should know the Lord, have their sins forgiven them, and his laws written in their heart. Therefore your national Church is not within the Lords covenaunt, nor ever 〈…〉, nor his people having Pag. 153. him for their God. Your exceptious in your 2. book to this Argument are insufficient. The first is, that by this exposition hypocrites should not be under the covenaunt, because the law of God is not written in their hearts. But my answer is that hypocrites in respect of God and his secret, invisible, and approving will, and calling, are not of the Church, nor under the covenaunt: but in respect of men, & of the revealed will of God, according to which men must judge, all that are outwardly holy, have their sins forgiven, and the law of God written in their hearts. And to your 2. exception, namely, that the place is not understood barely of a member of the visible Church, but so of it, as withal he be an elect saint, I do answer, it is true you say, considering what bare members of the visible Church you make, & of what members your Church is most what made, even such as are both bare, and empty of all grace, and appearance of grace. But let them be such in any measure, as of whom the Lord in his word gives approbation, and whom he entitles to the visible ordinances in his Church, and then they are not barely visible members, as you speak, but elect saints also, in the respects formerly mentioned. It is evident that both jeremy, and the Apostle to the Hebrews speak of the new testament, or covenant of grace, whereof Christ is the mediator in his own blood; opposed to the old testament, and covenaunt of works established by Moses in the blood of bulls, and goats: and of the persons with whom the Lord makes this covenant, and which have legacies in this will, and testament of Christ, which he hath also confirmed by his death: which do all know God, and have his law written in their hearts, and their sins pardoned. And there is nothing more derogatory to the grace of God, and blood of Christ, then that any within the compass of this covenant of grace, or having a portion in this testament established in Christ's blood, should not have his iniquities forgiven, and his heart sanctified by the spirit, truly or in appearance, as he is truly or apparently partaker of the former graces. And here also appears the vanity of your third exception so oft repeated by you, to wit, that you are not all without the law of God written in your hearts, and without the forgiveness of sins, but that some of you have obtained this grace. As though the question were of some few in your Church, & not of the whole Church. If you minded what you had in hand, you should see, that to prove your Church within the covenaunt of the new testament, you were bound to manifest, not that some few, but that all the members of it were (at the least in the constitution) partakers, of those promises, wherein it is established: the reason is because not some few severally, but all the members jointly considered, do make the Church. john in * Chap. 9 7. 8. the Revelation describing the Locusts, saith of them, that they had faces like the faces of men, & hair like the hair of women. Doth it therefore follow they were men, or women, because they had eyes, mouths, noses, & some other members that men, & women have? So neither is a profane people a true Christian Church, or body of Christ for some few Christianlike people v●tequally yoked with them, since the Church, or body, as I have formerly said, consisteth not of some few but of all the members coupled, and combined together in one communion. And thus much to prove that lewd & ungodly persons, so continuing, are uncapable of the new covenant, or testament consumed by the death of Christ: and that they have no fellowship, or union with God in Christ, in whom alone he establisheth his covenant: and if any man will affirm the contrary, not I, but john by the word of God, reproveth him expressly for * 1 joh. ●. 8 a liar. And in deed what more impudent untruth can there be affirmed, then that an apparent visible limb of Satan should be an apparent, or visible member of Christ, or that graceless persons should be within the covenant of grace, and salvation, as is that covenant into which the Lord gathereth, and in which he uniteth his Ch: unto himself? For conclusion of this point, let the reader observe, that as the Church is essentially constituted by this union of the members with God, and one with another, so, consider it as an ecclesiastical policy instituted by Christ the King thereof; and then that form, or order of government, which he hath set, and which the Apostolic Churches used, and enjoyed, is the form of it: as it is in all other po●ici●s, corporations, and common wealths in the world. Which form of government the Church of England is so far from enjoying, a● it hates worse than Papists all that in any measure desire it. Now as from the matter, & form of the Church concurring do arise the properties, so would Mr B. in the next place justify against us, that the congregations amongst them have the true visible properties of the Church, which he makes three in number: the first, their continuance Mr B. in he●●●ng of the d●●h me of Christ reproved, and using of the sacraments, and prayer. 2. the holding out of this truth, and the sacraments, as banners displayed against the enemy. 3. a care for the welfare of all, and every one for the whole, and each for other: though in his “ ●ag ●83. ●84. ●85. 2. book (as if it ●ad not been he) 1. the h●ldin● out of the profession of the person covenanted with, Christ jesus: 2. the holding the words of the covenants, the written w●●● of God: 3. the m 〈…〉ng of the publication of this covenant by the 〈◊〉 and 〈…〉 the assemblies, are become the properties of the Church: as if the Church were as changeable in her properties, as 〈◊〉 in his. And here I must needs take knowledge of Mr B. distinction in Answ. his▪ 2. book betwixt the properties and privileges of the Church, and the rather, because he lays it down with great ostentation for our learning, as he saith. His distinction is, that properties arise from within the Church, and privileges from without: and my learning from his distinction is, that he undertakes to teach others, where he hath not yet learned himself. His error then is in the too strait acception of the term property, which he should take in a larger sense, as Mr Smyth hath rightly taught him: namely that, whatsoever is proper unto a person, or thing (whether within, or without) and not common to other things, or persons with him, or it, that is a property, or property of that person, or thing. And so since all the privileges wherewith Christ hath endowed his Church, are proper, and peculiar unto the Church, and not common to her with the world, it is most evident, they are all of them the Church's properties, and so to be accounted, though she may for a time want the actual use of many of them. And even those privileges, which yourself bring for instances, are true properties of the Church: as to be called saints, faithful, elect: to suffer for Christ: to be the ark to keep the books of the covenant: to set to the seals: to use the keys to open, & to shut heaven: than which what can be more proper or peculiar unto the Church? And it is strange that sayntship, and holiness, grace to suffer for Christ, and the like should not be accounted more natural properties of the Church, than a profane profession of faith and usurpation of some ordinances of religion by lewd, and ungodly persons. But touching the properties of the Church by you laid down, my answer is, that except your national Church be that true Israel of God, which he hath admitted jointly, and severally into the covenant & fellowship of grace, & salvation, and to whom he hath given the promises of that covenant, and to whom by his revealed will the seals, and sacraments for the confirmation of those promises, do appertain, the more you meddle with this covenant by professing or publishing it, the more you take God's name in vain; and the more of the ordinances of God, & his covenant, you use, and enjoy, the more you abuse, & usurp: & the longer you continue in so doing, the more dangerous is your estate, & the more to be bewailed. And for the things themselves by which you would have the Ch: of Christ distinguished from all other assemblies, they are such, as may in the outward ceremony, and observation of them, without any sanctified use (which is the point in controversy between me and you) both be performed, and continued in, either for fear, or fashion by any accursed conventicle of atheists, murderers, adulterers or the like; yea by a company of men, and women excommunicated for these, & the like transgressions. And can these things which lie thus in common to all, be the true properties of the Church? 2. I must be bold to tell you Mr B. that the holding out of the truth, & sacraments are not so properly the displayed banners of your Church, as is the observation of your popish ceremonies. The surplise is a banner far broader displayed than the preaching of the gospel, or ministration of the sacraments; the cross is a standard higher advanced than baptism; so is kneeling, than the Lords supper: without th●se neither the word may be preached, nor the sacraments administered, but where these banners are set up, and fair borne, there is that which is required, & will serve the turn, though there be very little truth held out, either by preaching, knowledge, or obedience, but the contrary. Lastly, where speaking of the marks, and tokens of the true Ch: you will the reader to observe well, that they are not the word truly preached, nor the sacraments rightly administered: but the true word preached, and the true sacraments administered▪ I cannot but observe it well, and in it, both your error, and lightness. In your little † pag. 13. 14. catechism printed 1602. you demand this question▪ What are the marks of the true Church here on earth? to which your answer is, amongst some other things: Christ's word truly preached, and his sacraments rightly administered. But now in your Separatists schism, not the word truly preached, * Pag. 122 132. but the true word, nor the sacraments rightly administered, but the true sacraments are the infallible, and convertible marks, and tokens of the Ch: in the judgement of ill the divines at home, and in all the reformed Churches in Christendom. Now that which I observe hence is, that Mr B. is one in his catechism, where he labours with good conscience to instruct his people in the knowledge of God, and another in his Invective, headily begun, and unconscionably prosecuted. In the former he endeavoured with good conscience to lay down the grounds of Christian religion: but now considering that the Christian grounds there laid will not bear the Antichristian confused building, which he is to defend in his latter book, he chooseth rather to raze his former Christian foundations, and to lay new, & those contrary, then to leave one stone of Babel undawbed with his untempered mortar. Now for the point itself let the reader observe these few particulars. First, that rightly, and truly in preaching, and administration, are by Mr B. very ignorantly restrained to the holy graces of the Church: for which, right, and lawful persons by, and to whom these administrations are to be made, are required. And are persons graces, Mr Bernard? 2. It is not true you affirm, that all divines hold the true word, and true sacraments (though not truly nor rightly administered) the infallible tokens of the Church. I do not remember that ever I read this phrase the true word before, in any writers. Such as write of these things are generally against you, as you are against Art. 19 the truth. Your own articles of religion condemn you, which make it a property of the Church to have the sacraments duly administered. And since the word, and sacraments are divine ordinances instituted by the Lord for certain ends, and purposes, and determined to circumstances of persons, as by, & to whom they must be administered, it is necessary we measure, and define them by the manner of ministration: otherwise we make them but as the charms of wizards, or at the best, as the prayers of Papists, which they account true, if so many words be said over by whomsoever, or howsoever. The word of God may be, and oft times is, in a great measure preached, or published upon a stage; and what if the sacraments should be added to it, were here a true Church marked out? And as the word, and sacraments may be sacrilegiously usurped by them which are no Church of Christ, nor have any right at all unto them, so may the true Church of Christ be for a time without them, though never without spiritual right unto them; as in the time of some great plague, when the Church dare not assemble, or of persequ●tion, when it is severed either by bonds, or ●light. It doth not then cease to be a Church, no nor a visible Church neither. It remains visible in itself though it be not actually seen, or open to the eye of all (as you speak) as colours are always visible, and sounds audible in themselves, though for the present they be neither seen nor heard. But what do I striving with this man, which needs none other adversary but himself? As he crosses his first book with his second: so doth he both cross, and confute his second by his third. In his first, he will have the word truly taught, and the sacraments rightly administered to be the marks of the true Church: in his 2. the true word preached though not truly, & the true sacraments administered though not rightly, are infallible tokens, and reciprocally converted with the Church: in the 3. & last book, † Pag. 286 the Church may be a Ch: without the use of the sacraments for a long time, as the Ch: of Israel was in the wilderness, so it be not done of contempt: and such as are either no Church of God at all, or an antichristian assembly, may have, and usurp the seals put to a blank as Ishmael, & Esau out of the Church had circumcision, and the Papists now have baptism. And that which he saith of Baptism, may as truly be said in cases, of the word, and the publication of it by reading, and interpretation. As the true Church may for a time want the use of both, so may a false Ch: usurp, and abuse both, as well the writing, as the seal. ' * Rev. 2. 1. ●. 5. He that held the seven stars in his right hand, and walked in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks, threatened the Church of Ephesus, that he would shortly remove her candlestickout of his place, for leaving her f●rst love, except she repented, though she still held and used the word, and sacraments: and if a company of schismatics leaving a Church without cause, or of excommunicates justly cast out of the Church should unite themselves together, usurping and assuming the word, and sacraments, and professing the covenant outwardly, and in the letter, did this their ●old usurpation make them a true visible Church of Christ? The matter is, the true Church may want upon occasion the use, or administration of the word, and sacraments, but never the right, power, and interest in, and unto them: so may a false assembly usurp o● assume them, but never have right or power from Christ unto them. And this spiritual power, and liberty arising from the Lords visible covenaunt, to communicate, and partake in the visible promises, & ordinances of it, is the true essential property of the visible Church: as is the faculty of reasoning the property of a reasonable man, and the faculty of seeing, hearing, tasting, and the like, the property of a sensible creature; though neither the one have the actual use of reason for the present, nor the other of sense. The third, and last property of the Church Mr B: makes, the care for the welfare of all, and every one for the whole, and each for other: Mr B. & this either corporal for the maintenance of the body, as in alms deeds. Act. 2. 42. or spiritual touching the soul, which standeth in admonition, and exhortation, and so ●orth, as 1 Thes. 5. 11. which also he saith they, and their congregations have. It is noted of some persons beside themselves, that all the Answ. ships they see in the haven, and fair houses in the country, they think, and say, are theirs: where if they were in their right wits, they would both know and acknowledge, that they were poor, and beggarly, and had nothing. So is it with this man, because he reads in the scriptures, that the Apostolical Churches consisted of saints; and were gathered by voluntary profession, into the covenant of God; that they had given them, and did enjoy by the Lord's gift, and donation, his word, sacraments, & other ordinances; and did in that holy communion, whereunto they were called, exercise themselves mutually for the welfare one of another both bodily, and spiritually: thereupon he concludes peremptorily that the Church of England, whereof he is, and for which he pleads, hath all these things: and that they have all these properties: where if he had a sound mind, and an honest heart in the things of God, he would both see & confess, that things were nothing less with them, then as he saith; and that in stead of this great and universal abundance, whereof he boasteth, there were generally nothing but spiritual beggary, and want. “ Rev. 3. 1● Thou sayest I am rich, and increased with goods, & have need of nothing, & knowest not how thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor▪ and blind, and naked. More particularly; as you want the office of Deaconship, which Christ hath left by his Apostles for the collection, and distribution of the Church's alms, and have entertained under the true name, a false, and forged office of half priesthood, perverting and misapplying Book of ordination, Art. 6. to the justification of it, such holy scriptures, as are left for the calling, and ministration of true, and lawful Deacons in the Church of Christ: so is there not that care for the bodily welfare one of another amongst you in any measure, whereof you boast. The needless, and endless suits, and quarrels amongst you filling all your courts, and judgement seats; your daily thefts, and murders amongst the members of your Church; the continual cozenings, and circumventions one of another; the usuries, oppressions, extortions, which overflow both country and city, as did the waters in the time of Noah, both the valleys, & hills, do too manifestly show how far you are from this care of the welfare each of other bodily, whereof you thus vainly boast. But though this care of each for other, both bodily and spiritually, be almost wholly Mr B. wanting, yet (say you) the Church is not to be judged a false Church, no more than the household is to be judged a false household, because there is not that care that ought to be amongst them of the family: or a man a false man if through folly, madness, or wilfulness, he neglects the welfare of his body. Surely it had not need, considering how not only this is wanting, Answ. but how the contrary aboundeth in all places. And to let pass all other matters, no man is ignorant what care the two great factions in the Church, that of the Prelates, and the other of the Reformists do take, each for other, namely how each may subvert, and root out the other. And for your similitudes borrowed from an household, and a body, as we deny your Church to be † Ephe. 2. 19 & 4. 16 that household of God, or body of Christ, wherein every member hath his effectual working, in his measure, as the Apostle speaketh, so is there no way the like reason of them, and of the Church, in the respect, wherein you compare them. A man doth not, nor cannot cease to be a true man naturally by any means, if his person survive: neither can a family cease to be a true family civilly, if it be not dissipated and dissolved: but a Church though the same persons survive still, and combyne together, as they did, may cease to be the true Church of Christ: and may either become no Church by forsaking all profession of Christianity, or a false Church by holding, and professing themselves still Christians, & in fellowship with God through Christ, when being considered by the revealed will of God, and testament of Christ, they are in truth & in deed, neither the one, nor the other. And considering what * Epist. 3. 10. john saith, that he which loveth not his brother, and so consequently cares not for his welfare which issueth from the former, as the stream from the spring, is not of God, nor of his children, but of the children of the Devil; and withal, that you yourself right now did place the form, & covenant of the Church in a great measure, in the manifestation, and testimony of love in the members each to other, and so consequently of care each for the welfare of other, I see not how that Church can be accounted the household of God consisting of his children by the word of God, or the body of Christ united & coupled together of his members, by your own doctrine, where this love of, and care for each other is visibly, and outwardly wanting. But to pass over all other things, the point upon which Mr B. insists, and which he would most gladly fasten upon the reader, is, Mr B. that the power of the censures, and of excommunication, termed by the name of discipline, howsoever it be a thing necessary for the well being of the Church, yet is it no essential property, nor of such necessity, but that a true Church may be without it. And this (wanting scriptures, or reasons to confirm it) he affirms again, and again, and in the end, illustrates by a similtude taken from a man who is not therefore a false man, though he can neither see, nor g●e, nor speak. It is recorded of one THEODOTIUS, that having denied Christ Answ. in persecution, to lessen his sin, he went about to lessen Christ, and taught that he was mere man, and not God: so many, in the case of Christ's government, that their own and other men's sin may seem lesser, in not using, or submitting unto it, do labour to extenuate, and make it less excellent, or useful than it is: and thereupon one tells us it is not a part of God's worship, nor of religion; another that it is a thing indifferent, arbytrary, & changeable; a third that it is not simply necessary for the true Church: as Mr B: in this place. The unsoundness of whose affirmation, & illustration, I will by and by manifest, the Lord assisting me; in the mean while I do desire the reader to observe with me these two things in his writings about this point. The former is, that, in labouring thus earnestly to persuade (as here he doth) that the power of excommunication is not of simple necessity, he in effect grants that, which all men know to be true, namely, that the Churches in England do want this power▪ Now if here he answer, as he doth in his" 2. book, that, though pag. 261. the power of excommunication ●e not in every parish, yet it is in the Church of England in which is comprehended all pa●rishes, and all superior power over these Parishes, in which is the power of Christ, I reply these particulars. First that he might thus answer, though one Bishop alone had engrossed into his hands all this power; yea a Papist might answer thus for the Pope's sole authority over all the Churches in the world, yea though he should communicate the same with no other person, or persons. 2. Let this man's shifting be well noted. When both in this, and the other book he pleads for the Ministry in the Church, he passes by the national, Provincial, and Diocesan Ministry, and speaks only of the Ministry in some parishes, where some honest zealous preachers are, but now coming to plead for the power of Christ in the Church, he takes the contrary course, and passing by the parishes, takes his flight to the national, Provincial, and Diocesan Ministry there to find comfort. 3. the question here as he himself puts it, pag. 125. of this book is about particular congregations, which, he saith, there are with them, having true matter, true form, and true properties. whereof excommunication is one. To this also add, that in the end of his book he avoucheth the Minister's affirmation, that this power is given to the particular pag. 180. congregations in the land. 4. & lastly, I have formerly manifested, from Mat. 18. & 1 Cor. 5. that this power, and prerogative is given to a particular congregation, (besides which the new testament acknowledgeth none other visible Church:) and if that one particular * Math. 18 ●●. 20. 1 Cor. ● 2. and ●. 4. 5 6. 12. 13. Church, or congregation a●▪ Corinth gathered together into the name of the Lord jesus Christ, had the promise of his presence, and that he would be in the m●ddest of them, and were by this power of the Lord jesus Christ, to deliver to Sat●n, purge out, judge, and put away wicked men from among them (for failing in which duty, they were reproved by the Apostle) then why not every other particular Church or congregation of God's people, as well as that one? especially since that, as all other scriptures, was written for our learning; and that there is but † Ephe. 4. 4. 5. one Church, or body, as there is but one Lord: one, that is, in matter, form, and essential properties. see pag. 267 The 2. thing I desire may be noted, is, that Mr B: doth if not pag. 126. deceitfully, yet unfitly comprehend the power of the censures under the care for the welfare of the Church: since this power may be full and entire, where the care is either very little, or not at all: as it came to pass in the Church of Corinth, which had this power 1 Cor. 5. always amongst them, but neglected the use of it, and therein the care for the welfare of the Church which they should have had, & for which neglect they were reproved by the Apostle. Now for the similitude, I do except against it in a double respect: first for that God doth oft times deprive a man of the natural power of seeing, going, and speaking, by natural infirmities within, or bodily violence from without: but Christ never deprives his Church of this spiritual power of excommunication, neither can it be impeached by any outward violence: only Antichrist exalting himself against all that is called God, and intruding himself into the throne of Christ, doth deprive the Church of God, and of Christ, of this liberty, and power; and so all those Churches, or congregations over whom he thus usurpeth, receive his mark, & are in that respect subject to his judgement. 2. Mr B: as I have formerly observed, doth most unaptly compare the power of casting out offenders to the faculty of seeing, speaking, and the like: it is more fitly resembled to the want of power to void, and purge excrements, which is prodigious in nature; & so neither the natural, nor spiritual body so constituted can possibly consist, or live. And for the parts of the body, to which he here hath reference, and the like; they do more fitly resemble the officers of the Church, than the ordinance of excommunication: the eyes, and mouth the Bishops, and Elders, which are to oversee, and teach the Church: the hands, the Deacons, who are to distribute her alms. And a● there may be a true (though an unperfit) natural body without these parts, so may there be a true visible Church, or body of Christ, without these officers, though unperfect, and defective. It now remains I lay down some reasons to prove the power of the censures, & of excommunication, simply necessary unto the Church of Christ. The Reasons are, First, because it is simply necessary for the being of a Church, I. that there be power for true members to join together, and so to receive others unto them: even so consequently must there be power to disjoin, and cut of false members. 2. Excommunication, and absolution are of the same nature II. with preaching the gospel: yea the very same, particularly applied to persons obstinate, and repentant, which preaching is in the general. The † Rom. 1. 16. preaching of the gospel is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth: excommunication is * 1 Cor. 5. 4▪ 5. the power of the Lord jesus Christ, for the destruction of the fl●sh, of him that is otherwise incorrigible, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord jesus. The preaching of the gospel makes the first, or major proposition thus; he that believes not, and reputes not, is bound in heaven, and hath his sinn● unremitted; but he that believes, and reputes, his sinn● are pardoned, and he loosed in heaven. Now excommunication, and absolution applied to a particular person, and occasion, do make the second, or minor proposition thus: thou believest not, or repentest not of this thy sin, and therefore thou art bound in heaven, and thy sins unpardoned: and so of absolution, or the losing of sins. Add also unto these things, that the same Bishops, or Elders are to preach the gospel in way of doctrine, and to minister the censures in way of discipline, though in some diverse order, as I have formerly showed. And these two being the two main duties of the Ministers, comprehended under this general duty of “ Act. 20. 28. feeding the stock, must needs be of the same nature: both of them main, and necessary parts of God's worship, and of religion, and so to be performed upon the Lord's day, as his work, and in the assembly of the saints, as an exercise of their holy communion, howsoever with you, and others, they are made a consistory, and working day matter, to the great violation, and indignity of the kingdom of Christ, in the dispensation of it in his Church. 3. The want of excommunicating and censuring wicked men III. † ● Cor. 5. 6. levens the whole lump: and makes the whole particular congregation whereof they are, accessary to their sin: and to purpose to continue in such a congregation, or Church, as hath not this power, is to purpose to continue in disobedience to the commandment of the Lord jesus which he hath laid upon all his disciples to “ Math. 18. 1. 15. 17 tell the Church in the order by him prescribed. 4. Without the censures, the Church * Rev. 18. 2 becomes of Zion, Babylon, FOUR even the habitation of Devils, and the hold of all ●owl spirits, and a cage of every unclean, and hateful bird. And so Mr B. in his forenamed † pag. 15. 16. catechis●●● teacheth that the holy, and right use of discipline, and of excommunication serves to maintain the Church, and to over throw heresy, that destroys the foundation, and other mischiefs. And since heresy destroys the foundation, as Mr B. teacheth; and that “ 1 Cor. 1● 19 there must be heresies in the Church, as Paul teacheth: and that the Church cannot possibly be purged of them, without excommunication; that must needs be absolutely necessary to the Church, without which the Church must absolutely necessarily come to nought. To these I do add, as a fifth, and last Reason, that as † Math. ●. 16. 1 Pet. 2 12. and 3. 1 Rom. 2. 24. the glory V. of God, & salvation of them without, are most furthered, and advantaged by the holy conversation of the members of the Church: and on the contrary most disadvantaged, and hindered, by their unholy, and profane courses: so is the power of excommunication, by which solemn ordinance alo●e, profaneness & impiety are rooted out, of absolute necessity for the Churches of Christ. And of this point I desire the reader to take knowledge, not only as of a matter of truth, but of conscience also, and for practise. That which Mr B: reputes our ninth error, is our holding all Mr B. their ministers false Ministers. Answ. As I have formerly said of your Churches, so say I here of your ministers: that if one be false, all are: for all are of one constitution. In deed Mr B: if he might be let alone, would save himself much labour this way, by restraining his defence to some few of the most able, and conscionable men excluding the rest: and therefore in his former book, he speaks of such ministers, as God hath “ pag. 132. 133. furnished with gifts to discharge their function: with holy graces: & a blameless lif●: and in his 2. book, he desires to * pag. 290. be understood of such as are sent of God, and set over congregations, according to the truth, and true meaning of the laws, and book of ordination. In which he doth directly exclude the Archbishops, Bishops, Suffragans, Deans, Archdeacon's, chancellors, Commissaries, and with them, all pluralists, nonresidents, unpreaching, and profane ministers. For some of these are not set over congregations at all, but over Provinces, & Diocese: others not in respect of their offices above named: and others, though they be set over particular Churches, yet have they neither gifts, nor graces for their function. But as he were nothing faithful unto a city, that undertaking the defence of it, should p●ck out here and there a corner most strong, and defensible, and fortify there, leaving the body of the city to the invasion, & spoil of any that would assault it: so neither is Mr B: faithful to the Ministry of England, who pretending the defence of it against us, calls out here and there a man, whom he will justify, and leaves the body, and all the principal members of it undefended. And here I would demand of him why he doth not as well defend all the Ministers, in this place, as he did even now defend all the people, or why a Minister so called, though unapt to teach, and of a profane life, is not as well a true, though a bad Minister: as a Christian so called, being ignorant, and of a lewd conversation, a a true, though a bad Christian? There is one and the same reason of both: though Mr B: have more reason for to plead the one than the other, considering his own standing. If he should plead for the ignorant, and profane Ministers, he should deprive himself of all arguments for the justification of the preaching, & more conscionable sort: for he raiseth them all, as the reader may see in both his books, from their gifts, and aptness to teach, from their holy graces, their painful and zealous preaching, their suppressing of Popery, and conversion of souls, with other the like effects of the truths of the gospel published, and taught by them: which things since he dares not affirm of the scandalous, & unpreaching Priests, he cunningly passeth them by as some small moat fallen into the Church, by the covetousness of † 2 Book p. ●90. 296. Much-wormly patrons, but contrary to the true meaning of the laws: and without the least default of the Bishops, or Archbishops: as though the covetous Patrons could present them, except the ungodly Bishops had first ordained them. If he had undertaken the justification (but as true, though not as good) both of the unpreaching, and preaching Ministers, he must have sought, and produced such Arguments as would have agreed to both; but finding himself able to make no show at all for the ignorant, idle, and scandalous sort, having no colours to paint, no mortar to daub over those filthy stones, no not to any show, he smothers all them, though far the greater both in number, and authority, and in deed the almost only true formal ministers (according to the Church canon, and constitution) and presents to the reader a few dispersed, disgraced, tolerated, and tolerating persons, and undertakes their defence: manifesting himself a right natural “ Rev. 1● 11. merchant of that great whore, in showing some handful of tolerable wares, thereby to deceive the simple buyer with the whole piece, or heap of rotten stuff, which goes with them. Now on the contrary if Mr B. should not have defended men of lewd conversation, as true visible matter of the Church and members of Christ's body, he could not have levied with any colour, the national, Provincial, Diocesan, and Parish Churches, or any one of them, as true; since they were all at the first collected, and do still consist, for the greatest part, of such people, and so disposed. He therefore takes liberty unto himself to make such defence, and for so much of his Church, and Ministry, as will serve his turn amongst the deceived multitude, and of no more. But the main point in this place, & about this matter in hand, to be considered of, is, whether ability to preach be a qualification, and so preaching a work, necessarily required in the ministry of Engl: according to the true meaning of the laws ecclesiastical, & civil, and the book of ordination. This Mr B. takes for granted affirmatively, and upon it as a main ground builds his whole treatise about this matter: but I on the contrary do affirm, that this is (& so is known to be to all that mind it, with wisdom, & good conscience) cleane otherwise: and that neither this ability, nor practise of preaching is of necessity required to the true, and natural constitution of the English ministry, in the meaning of the laws established in that case. And for the confirmation of that I affirm against this man's presumptuous asseveration, these proofs suffice. First, the books of Homilies published, and confirmed by law, I. to be read of such ministers as cannot preach, do evidently declare, that ability to preach, is not necessarily required of all, in the true meaning of the law. 2. By the statute law of the land, and in particular by one statute II. enacted for the prevention of unworthy ministers (though wanting the book, I cannot set down the title, time, or order of it) he that is either a Bachilour of arts in one of the Universities; or can give an account of his faith in latin: or hath been brought up in a Bishop's house; (though he have been his porter, or horse-keeper) or hath a gift in preaching, is capable of orders, and may be by the Bishop ordained a minister: so that by the express letter, and plain meaning of the law aptness, and ability to teach is not necessarily required in the English ministry. If he have any one of the three former qualifications, the law approves of him; and being ordained, the Patron may present him to any congregation in the land, whom the Bishop also must institute, the Archdeacon induct, and the people receive; and may be thereunto compelled, whither they will, or no. Add unto these, that your canons, and constitutions, framed III. by the convocation house, and confirmed by the King's royal assent, & so being the laws ecclesiastical of your Church, & by your doctrine Mr B. the Act of all the Church, though the inferiors come not pag. 144. to consent, do not only approve an unpreaching Ministry, but also lay deep curses, and Anathemaes upon all that deny either the truth or lawfulness of it. To this also I might annex that it is a very common doctrine with your Prelates, and their chaplains, and faction, that † Mr Col 〈…〉. preaching is no necessary annexum, or appurtenance unto Orders, which they also offer to defend against all gainsayers. But it seems you have special reference to the book of ordination: let us therefore see what it makes for you, or your purpose. That you build upon, I know, i● these words of the Bishop, when he order his Priest; and delivers him the Bible in his hand. Take thou authority to preach the word of God, and to minister the holy sacraments in this congregation, where thou shalt be so appointed. The words I hear, and acknowledge, but the true meaning of the book I deny it to be, that every Minister should be able to preach. It may as well be said, it is the meaning of the book, that that every Priest should be ordained in the particular congregation, where he is to minister, because of the latter words in this congregation, where thou shalt be so appointed: and that he is to minister the discipline of Christ, as well as the doctrine and sacraments, because such words pass betwixt him, and the Bishop in another place of the same book. It is not the least delusion of Satan, or mystery, that such forms of good words are retained both in the Romish, & English Church, without any truth either of purpose or practise in those which use them: for by them the eyes of the simple are easily bleared by such deceivable merchants, as right now I spoke of: though it be not without a special providence of God, that these, & the like forms of words should be used, for the more full conviction, and condemnation of them that choose to be deceived, as I have formerly noted in this book. pag. 244. To conclude this point. The reading of the service book, in form, and manner, the celebrating of marriage, churching of women, burying of the dead, conformity, and subscription, are more essential to your ministry, and more necessarily required by the laws of your Church both civil and ecclesiastical, then preaching of the gospel is. The wearing of the surplice, and signing with the cross in baptism are of absolute necessity, without partial dispensation, yea I may add violation of oath by the Bishops: whereas preaching of the word is no such necessary, or essential duty, but a work casual, accessary, and supererrogatory, which may be done or undone, as the minister is able, or willing, without any such absolute necessity, as is here pretended. Hereupon than it followeth, that since the preaching of the gospel is no necessary part, or property of the office of ministry, in the Church of England, that that ministry cannot be of Christ: as also that the conscionable and effectual preaching of some men is no justification at all of the office, which may, and doth consist essentially without it, and to which it is but casual, & accidental; but a commendation of the persons, which, besides the natural, and necessary parts of their office, do so practise and preach. And this consideration alone might suffice for answer unto all Mr B. proofs for the legitimating of the ministry in the Church of England: yet will I for the further discovering of them (considering the confidence wherewith he propounds them) descend to the particulars. In his former book he lays down, and proves by the scriptures these three sound, and main grounds touching the ministry. pag. 131. 1. that the Lord only ordeyns offices in his Church. 2. that he distinguisheth them one from another, that one may not intrude into an others office. 3. that he only prescribes the duties to be done in every distinct office, and so in the fourth place he comes to the qualification and gifting of men for their functions, and so proceeds to other particulars. But observe his dealings: when he comes to apply, and compare the ministry of England to, and with these golden rules, and by them generally and truly propounded, to justify it in the particulars, he passeth them all by in silence, as if he had utterly forgotten them, and speaks not one word, either of the offices themselves, or of the distinction of them one from another, or the duties to be done in pag. 141. them; but comes in the very first place to the gifts, and graces of the persons. And in so doing (like the unrighteous steward) he doth wisely, though nothing less than faithfully. He knows well, that he cannot find in the scriptures the least colour for the offices of Archbishops, Bishops, Suffragans, Deans, archdeacons, half Priests, or Engl: Deacons: nor that the duties of celebrating marriage, purifying women, burying the dead, reading the service book in manner, and form, are laid upon the ministers of the gospel, as duties to be done in their offices: nor that the Provincial, and Diocesan officers may intrude into their office, which are set over particular congregations, and deprive them of the power of government; nor the Deacons to administer the sacraments: nor that any of them may intrude into the office of the civil Magistrate (as they all do less or more) in meddling with matters of marriage, divorce, testaments, or with injuries, as they respect the body, or outward man, according to your, and other m●ns exposition of Math. 18. making ministers Magistrates, and E●ders in the Church, Elders in the gates. These things he knew, and therefore coming to speak of the ministry in England, and to apply these general rules to their particular estate, he not so much as once mentions either the diversity of offices in the Church; or their distinction one from another: or the several duties to be done in them, lest in naming them, he should (as it could not have been otherwise) have condemned that thing, which he would so gladly justify. And this I desire the Reader to note not only against him, but specially against the Ministry he pleads for. His Arguments to prove the Ministers of England: true Ministers Mr B. of Christ, follow in order. The first is because they are not Ministers of Antichrist: and that I. he would prove by 4. Reasons. 1. by their doctrine, and oath against him. 2. because they show no obedience unto him. 3. because Antichrist himself disclaimeth them, as no Ministers, & condemneth them, as haeretiques 4. because antichrist's Ministers are sacrificing and m●ssing Priests, which they are not. Answ. Here Mr B. (had he done faithfully) should have cleared our Arguments, by which in sundry treatises published for that purpose, we have proved them in respect of their offices, entrances, & administrations, the Ministers of antichrist: but thinking it easier to strike, then to fence, he passeth by what we have written against them, & lays down certain colourable reasons for them: which I have summarily set down in order: and unto which I return this answer. First and generally, that there is one common error in all his Arguments: namely, that there is no Antichrist, but that great Antichrist the Pope: as though there were no more devils but Beelzebub, because he is the chief of the devils. I would know of this man, what he thinks of the clergy in King Hen. 8 days, that took the oath of supremacy, and taught against the Pope, opposing him, & being opposed by him: or what he thinks of the Lutheran Ministers, that disclaym the Antichrist of Rome as heretical, and are disclaimed by him, & yet do abhor from the reformed Churches, and from all communion with them, for the main truths they hold, touching the sacrament, and predestination. The thing than is, that there are degrees of Antichristianism, & orders of Antichrists, that is of such as are adversaries unto Christ. In Paul's time that “ 2 Thes. 2. 3. 4. man of sin, & adversary was got into the temple of God: and in john's time † 1 joh. 2. 18. & 4 3. many Antichrists were come into the world: and yet there was then neither Pope, nor mass priest; no nor Diocesan or Provincial Prelate neither. There was in deed * 3 joh. 9 10. Diotrephes, who sought for pre-eminence, & to rob the Church of † the power of Christ, and so 1 Cor. ●. 4. was an Antichrist, as there were many other impugning Christ the Lord otherwise: but the great Antichrist of Rome was by many degrees, and long continuance to be advanced to his throne. And as there were lesser Antichrists before him, by which he entered: so are there also after him; and those left behind him in the Church of Engl: out of which he is driven. And those are the Lord Arch bishops, and Lordbishops, with their orders, and administrations: unto whom whilst the inferior ministers do swear canonical obedience, they do by oath promise obedience unto Antichrist, and receive his mark: and so ministering, are the marked servants of Antichrist, whom they obey: whom they are also by doctrine to defend, except their oaths, and words disagreed. From whom if any of them do withdraw this their bounden, and sworn obedience, by denying subscription unto his orders, or conformity unto his ceremonies, them he silences, suspends, and deprives as schismatical (if not heretical), and utterly unworthy of their, and their Church's service. And these things the reader may apply to Mr B. 3. first several Reasons. Now to your fourth, and last Argument, viz: that you are no masse-preists, my answer is, first that you have the same office with mass priests though reform of that massing, and some other impietyes: and this both the practice of your Church, and your doctrine (pleading for succession, and ordination from Rome, & Romish Bishops, do necessarily confirm. All the massepreists ordained in Queen Mary's days for that end, were upon their conformity to the orders then, continued Ministers in their several congregations, in Queen Elizabeth's days, by virtue of their former ordination. And so are such masse-preists at this day (though ordained at Rome) received and continued amongst you, upon the aforenamed conditions. Now it is your own constant affirmation every where, that ordination makes the minister. Whereupon it follows, that no new ordination, no new minister, but the old massepreist reform of such impieties, wherein Rome exceeds England. 2. it is your doctrine in your first book, that the ministry makes the Church, & gives denomination unto it: & in your 2. book, that the Church of Rome is a true Church: whereupon it followeth necessarily, that the ministry in the Church of Rome is a true Ministry: except a false ministry can make a false Church. And if any order of ministry be, it is that of the parish priests, for they are the likest the Pastors in their several charges. Whence I do also conclude, that since the Romish priests office is a true office though under corruptions, as it was true job overshadowed with biles, either the English priests must have the same office with them, (though with the biles cured) or else they are not the true ministers of Christ. And for the name priest, at which (you say) we catch, you do idly draw it from the Greeks, since it is most evident, that with the office, the name was tanslated unto you from the Latin, and Romish Church: their sacerdos being your Priest in your books of ordination, and common prayer, which you have from them: otherwise why do you not turn the Greek words praesbyter, & proistamenos, priests in your English Bibles, which are translated from the originals. The sum of the 2. Arg. is that the Ministers of the Church of Engl: II. are Pastors, and Teachers, that is good shepherds, such as do keep, Mr B. feed, and govern the flock; and as are qualified with gifts, and understanding, and instruct them that are unlearned. If in stead of Pastors, and Teachers, you had put Parsons, & Answ. Vicars, your writs of presentation, and institution would have proved it. But that you are Pastors, and Teachers, such as Paul speaks of Ephe. 4. by holy writ you can never manifest. 2. though the things were true you speak both for your power, and practise, yet except you administered those things by a lawful calling, in a lawful office, and to a lawful assembly, you were not true Pastors, and Teachers. But it is not true you say of yourselves that you play the good shepherds in feeding, that is in providing pasture for the sheep, and in governing, & ordering them to, & fro, & at it. Your Prelates govern or rather reign, but teach not: your parish Priests some of them that can, & list, teach so much as they dare for fear of their imperious Lords, but govern not. Your 3. Arg: for your Ministers is, that they are called & sent of III. God, & of his Ch:, & therefore are true ministers. Their calling, & sending Mr B. of God you make his preparing of them with gifts, & graces to be able to execute in some measure the office, whereunto he doth appoint them. But herein you are greatly mistaken: the Lords enabling men Answ. with gifts is one thing, and his calling them to use them in such, and such an order, is another thing: and though the Lord calls none, but he enables them, yet he enables many, he never calls. Many counsellors, judges, lawyers, and others in the land, are very able to discharge the office of ministry, but are not called thereunto of God; if they be, it is their sin not to obey the heavenly calling, and to become ministers. And as a man may be qualified with gifts for the ministry, and yet not called of God to use them, (so being qualified accordingly) he may be a true Minister of the Church, though he be never called of God at all, as we now speak: So was judas, who was never inwardly called of God, that is, persuaded by the work of God's spirit in his heart, in the zeal of God's glory and love of the salvation of men, to take upon him the office of an Apostle. And what true calling of God the Ministers in the Church of England have to take upon them their offices, & charges, as they do, appears in their easy forsaking them upon a little persecution, yea before it come near them. Of which more hereafter. Now for the calling of the Ministers by the Church, albeit we put of the more full handling of it to the 4. Arg. yet something must be said for the present. And first, though it were true you say, that the Church of England were the true Church of Christ, yet were not your Ministers called, and sent by the Church, except a Lordly Prelate be the Ch: of England, for by such a one is every Minister amongst you, called, and made. 2. I deny here, (as always) your national Ch: to be the true visible Church of Christ: and that which in this case, you say, is largely proved, I hope is sufficiently refuted. But here a demand you make in your answer to Mr Sm: must be satisfied, namely, why true ministers may not arise as well out of a false pag. 313. Church, as a false ministry out of a true Ch:? The latter I agree unto: for the Church may err, and through error or otherwise, choose a man uncapable of the Ministry by the word of God. Whereupon it▪ follows, that the Minister makes not the Church (as you erroneously affirm) for then the Church should in the very instant become a false Church when she sets up a false Minister. But your inference I deny. For first evil may arise from good, though by accident, without any external cause coming between: as sin did from the angels in heaven, and our first parents in paradise: but so cannot good from evil. 2. the officers are 1. of, 2 by, 3. in, and 4 for the Church. 1. of it, as members of the body, and so must be members of a true Church, before they can be true officers. 2. by it, in respect of their calling, as Gal. 1. 1. and therefore except they can either be true officers by a false calling, or that a false Church can give a true calling, they cannot be true in it. 3. in it, as the accidents, or adjuncts in the subject, without which being true, they can have no more true existence, than reason can have, without a reasonable soul, or subject. 4. for it, and therefore since the Lord hath appointed no ministry for a false Church, there can by the word of God be no true ministry in it: and this I wish them to consider, which still adhere to the Church of England (though they wholly dislike the constitution) for the ministry in it. Now where you add, that Luther and other worthy Ministers of Christ were raised up out of the Romish Church, you wrong him & them, and the truth in them, whilst you would gratify Rome, and England. Luther's Ministry from Rome was his Fryardome: and is a Friar a true minister of Christ by his office, or of Artichrist whither? Besides, look what ministry the Church of Rome gave him, it took from him: and lastly if he had been a true officer or minister of the Church of Rome, it had been sin in him to have left his charge. Touching the baptism received in the Romish Church I have formerly spoken; and of our retaining it, but not our Ministry, I shall speak hereafter. That, which is worthy consideration in the fourth Argument FOUR is, the entrance into the ministry: in the substance of which he tells us, Mr B. there is nothing wanting by their laws. For touching the ability, and desire to teach, and other graces he speaks of, they no more make a minister, than † Exod. 18. 21. courage, the fear of God, true dealing, and the hatred of of covetousness make every man a Magistrate, that is so endowed. Now this entrance he lays down in 4. particulars: 1. presentation. 2. election, 3. probation, & 4. ordination with imposition of hands. But these in such confusion, and with so many contradictions, as do evidently show what monsters an ill cause, & a vain spirit meeting together, will gender, and bring forth. First, in his former book pag. 136. he places the whole calling, (or as he speaks) the making of a Minister in ordination: and comprehends under it as the 3. parts of it. 1. examination: 2. election: 3. admission, with imposition of hands. In his second book he makes ordination but the fourth, and last part of his calling, pag. 295. as in deed it is, and the same with admission: The reason why he would thus advance ordination is, because that in Engl: is all in all, being done by a Bishop, yea though it be by the Bishop of Rome. And so they call their book they make ministers by, the book of ordination not the book of election, or choice, or calling of Ministers. The Bishop's Lordship swallows up the people's liberty: and if he but lay his hands upon a man, & bid him Receive the H. Ghost, he is a minister of the Church sufficiently ordered. 2. Where in his former book he puts examination, or probation before election: in his ●. he would have election first, and the probation, or trial of the parties gifts, and graces to come afterwards: misinterpreting that, which is written 1 Tim. 3. 10. of probation to be made before election. And the Reason of this I conceive to be, because the Ministers in England are not only elected but fully made, before any such trial be taken of them. But I come to the particulars: and first to that which he calls presentation: for which he quotes Act. 1. 23 and 6. 6. In which scriptures, especially in the latter of them, he is much mistaken: the presentation there spoken of not being before, but after election. The cause, I suppose, of this his confused writing, is the confused practice in his Church, where the Patron presenteth his clerk both after his choosing, and ordaining. But for the thing itself, (understanding by presentation the nomination of the person to be chosen, or considered of for choice) as the officers are in, all other things to go before the people, so in this ordinarily: provided always the brethren's liberty be not infringed, but that they may present, or nominate others, if any amongst themselves seem more fit. Now for the examination, and trial of the parties gifts, and graces, as we all know what it is in the Church of England where if a man have the gift of subscription, conformity, & canonical obedience, though other gift, or grace he have none, he is a tried minister, and so reputed: which if he want, be his other gifts, and graces never so eminent, he is neither to enter into, nor being entered, to continue in his Ministry: so do the things, which you write in your † pag. 137. 138. former book, touching this trial, & examination of men, before they be choose into the Ministry, notably condemn both the ministry of your Church, which you labour to justify, and on the contrary justify sundry practices amongst us, which else where you condemn for notable errors. The particulars are these. 1. First, that the gifts of him that is to be chosen, must be examined according to those things, which the place wherein he must be, requireth, and God hath commanded. 2. that the place or office of the Ministry consisteth principally in the preaching of the word, administration of the sacraments, and prayer. 3. that the first, namely the preaching of the word, is to be preferred in the first place, as being first imposed, Math. 10. 28. 29. and most necessary both to beget, and preserve a people. jam. 1. 18. Prov. ●9. 15. 4. that the knowledge; zeal, and utterance of of ●●● party to be elected must be examined. Whereupon these things follow. First, that, by your own grant, men out of office may preach, administer the sacraments, and prayer: and so exercise their gifts, and graces of knowledge, zeal, & utterance. But as there is some difference, in the respect in hand, between the sacraments on the one side, and the word, and prayer on the other: because there is no special gift required for the administration of them, as there is for the latter: so is the exercise of prophesying, and prayer out of office (so much impugned by you) undeniably justified by this your own position. And as it is a very presumptuous evil to call any man into the office of a teaching Elder, whose gift in teaching hath not been sufficiently tried out of office, so is it no less presumption in a Church to set a man over herself for government, of whose both ability, & faithfulness in the reproving, & censuring of sins, and in other public affairs of the Church, she hath not taken good trial. 2. If this be true, that the office of the Ministry consist principally in the preaching of the word, and administration of the sacraments, & prayer, how is that true, for which you have so much contended in the former part of your book▪ that the authority to censure offenders, is in the chief officers, and governors of the Church, as their special prerogative? pag. 94. Can a less principal work be the peculiar privilege of a more principal office? It is against the light of nature, and common reason. More particularly: this observation by you truly made, with that also which followeth, namely, that the preaching of the word is to be praeferred in the first place, overthrows the order both of the Prelacy and priesthood of your Church. For if the preaching of the gospel be the principal work of the Ministry, and to be preferred in the first place▪ then are not your Provincial and Diocesan Bishops, of God, which have obtained the principal order, and office in your Church for a less principal work, namely government; and are preferred to the highest, & first place, not for the teaching of their Dioseces, & Provinces, which were impossible, though they desired it, but for ruling of them. You say they are the successors of the Apostles: but the chief work of the † Mat. 28. 19 20. A●t 5. 42. & 6. 4. Rom. 1. 15. 16. 1 Cor. 1. 17. Apostles Ministry was the preaching of the gospel, not ruling (much less Lording) wherein your Bishop's office standeth. The order, which the Apostle Paul hath left, is, that those * 1 Tim. 5. 17. Elders, which labour in the word, and doctrine, should have special honour, and above them, which are employed in ruling: but this order Antichrist hath subverted, as being a course not only too base, and laborious, but even impossible, for him to honour his Ministers by, as he desired, and hath effected; & hath procured not double, & treble, but an hundred fold greater honour to be ascribed to ruling, and government, then to preaching. And this is not the least part of that confusion wherein you stand, and against which we testify. 2. If the office of Ministry consist principally in preaching, how can your office of Ministry or order of priesthood, be of Christ, which consists not at all in preaching, as I have showed, but may stand without it, by the Canons & Laws of your Church: not requiring it necessarily as any essential property for the being, but only admitting of it, as a convenient ornament for the well-being: commending in deed the person that useth it, but no ways justifying the office, which requireth it not. Yea most evident it is, that the Ministry of the Church of England, considering it not only in the state, & carriage of things, but specially in the civil, and ecclesiastical laws wherein it is founded, consists more principally in the wearing of a surplice, then in the preaching of the gospel. To conclude this point, as the examination of such with you, as are to be ordained, by the Bishop, and his chaplain, is no trial of their gifts of knowledge, zeal, or utterance, or that they are † 1 Tim. ● 2. apt to teach, but a devise like the poseing of schoolboyes, without either warrant fro the scriptures, or good to the Church: so the only examination which the word of God approves of, is that just, and experimental knowledge which the Church, by wise observation, is to take of the personal gifts, and graces of such men, as the Lord raiseth up amongst them, manifesting themselves in the public exercises of the Church in their places, as there is occasion; though you Mr Bern. be bold to abuse 1 Tim. 3. 7. to the justification of your letters testimonial unto the Bishop, which any ungodly person may procure from other persons as ill as himself, and thereby may find acceptance with some Bishop or other, as evil as either of both. The Apostle “ Act. 1. ●● 21. Peter directing the disciples, or Church about the choice, or nomination of one to be chosen into the room of judas, tells them they must think of such a man, as had companyed with them all the time, that the Lord jesus was conversant among them. And the same Apostle, together with the rest, by the same spirit directs the Ch: afterward to ‘† Act. 6. 2. 3. choose from among themselves seven men justly qualified, to take upon them the administration of the Church treasury. And upon the same ground it was that the Apostles Paul & Barnabas did not straightway upon the gathering of the Churches of the Gentiles * Act. 14: 23. ordain them officers, but a good space after, even when the people had made good proof and trial of the gifts, and faithfulness of such men as by their free choice, and election, the Apostles ordained over them. And whom doth it concern so nearly to make proof, or to take observation of them that are to be called into office, as them that are to call, or choose them, and to commit their souls unto them? Of which election it followeth we consider in the next place. And the first thing I purpose about it, is to sum up, and set together a few of Mr B. sayings, which like so many waves driven by contrary winds, do dash themselves asunder one against another. First then he affirmeth, ‘† former book. pag. 133. and 138. that the Church i● t● separate, and c●●se 〈…〉 amongst others, for Ministers, such as are found fit: & in so saying, what doth he but grant, that the Church is before the Ministers? They that choose must needs be before the that are chos●n●▪ How them do the Ministers make the Church? 2. In his † pag. 325. 2. book he reproacheth Mr Smyth, as an impudent gainsayer of the t●●t, for saying that the Church did elect Mathias, Act. 1. where the Lord did make the ch●ise: and yet in the same book, pag. 295. 296. he grants, that such examples of practice were then in use for the people's choosing Ministers; and quotes this very scripture, with some others for that purpose. 3. he affirmeth in his † pag. 138. former book that the guides, and governors of the Ch: were to choose the Officers, & allegeth to that end Act. 14. 23. Neither remembering what he had formerly written in the same book, namely, that * pag. 97. the rest of the congregation were to choose the principal to be their mouth, and to stand for the whole Church: nor yet caring what he was to write in his. “ pag. 295. 2. book, to wit that the people were to choose their ministers, for which he also bringeth the same scripture, Act. 14. 23. If this man had been in john Baptists place, the jews might well have answered Christ, that they Luk. 7. 24. had gone out to see a reed shaken with the wind. But to leave his contradictions of himself, & to come to his oppositions against the truth. And first, it is erroneously written by him, and the scriptures Act. 13. 1. 2. & 14. 23. sinfully perverted to the justification of his error, that † Separate. schism. pag. 138. by the Church which, is to chose officers ●s meant the guides, and governors thereof. That which I have formerly noted out of both his books, especially his quoting the latter of these scriptures for the people's liberty in choosing their ministers, doth give great Mr B. cause of suspicion, that in this case he thus writes for his purpose, against Answ. his conscience, and is in deed condemned of himself. And for the other place, which is Act. 13. 1. 2. I may as justly (yea & much more) reprove Mr B. for bringing it for the governors choosing of Paul, and Barnabas, as he Mr Smyth for bringing Act. 1. for the people's choosing of Mathias. For, first Barnabas & Saul were Apostles, as well as Mathias: and therefore not to be called to their office by man but by God, Gal: 1. 1. and so were of * Act. 13 1 2. & 1. 24. 26. the Holy Ghost as immediately separated by name, as was Mathias by lot. 2. Mathias was at that time first called to the office of Apostleship, which before he had not: but Paul, and Barnabas were * Act. 9 1 Cor. 9 1. 2. 6. Apostles long before, and at that time designed only to a special work, but not called to any office. 3. It appeareth that Paul, and Barnabas were not separated, & sent by the governors only, but by the Church with them, wherein they ministered, and which joined with them in prayer, and fasting, and so consequently in dismissing, or letting them go, ver. 2. 3. though most like the ceremony of imposition of hands was performed only by the Teachers, and Prophets, but with the foregoing consent of the Church, according to the express direction of the holy Ghost. And that, not the governors severally, but the Church with them, separated and sent them, under the Lords express nomination, appears evidently, Act. 14. 27. where upon their return▪ they made relation, not to the officers, but to the Church gathered together for that purpose, what things the Lord had wrought by them, that so not only the grace of God towards the Gentiles might be taken knowledge of, and magnified, but also that their service, & ministration might be approved to the Church, which sent them. And thus all may see how injurious this man is to the right, and liberty of the brethren, as formerly in the censures, so here in the choice of officers: making the governors alone the Church both in the one, and the other. And being both of them Church matters, and parts of the public administration of Christ's kingdom, the same scriptures which demonstrate the people's interest in the one, do conclude the same in the other. In the beginning, the Lord jesus, and his Apostles by his spirit, appointed none other true visible Churches but particular congregations of faithful people; (for of the vanity of representative Churches in the new testament I have formerly spoken) but as † 1 Cor. 8. ● knowledge puffeth up▪ so within a few ages, the officers and governors of the Church (being men of knowledge) began to swell with that poisoned humour of pride, & ambition, wherewith Antichrist had infected them, especially when they were once settled in peace, and plenty; and taking withal, partly advantage, by the people's negligence in themselves, and superstitious admiration of their guides; and partly occasion by the abuse of their liberty) have been bold to engross the liberties of the whole Church into their own hands, and with them, the name. They alone must have the keys of the kingdom of heaven hanging at their girdle, for the opening, & shutting of heaven gates: which is all one as if in plain terms they should affirm, that to them alone were committed the oracles of God, the gospel of salvation, see Rom. 3. 2. Jude, 3. They alone must * 1 Cor. 14 3. speak in the Church to adif●ing, exhortation, and comfort: and so all the brethren must be silenced in the exercise of prophesying. To them alone must the complaints of sins be brought, and they alone must be heard in the reforming of them: and thus must the bottomless gulf of the governors authority swallow up the brethren's liberty in the reproving, and censuring of offenders. They alone are to separate, and choose the ministers: and of this branch of the power of Christ amongst the rest, must the body of the Church be stripped. And as there is no end of errors, where they once begin, especially of those, which tend to the advancement of the man of sin in his Ministers above all that is called God, so hath this iniquity prevailed yet further, even to the bereaving of the people of the cup in the Lord's supper, and of the very scriptures in their mother's tongue: the Priests alone communicating in both parts of the supper; and enclosing the scriptures themselves with in the Romish, or Latin language, which they alone, to speak of▪ understood. Yea, to conclude, so effectual hath the delusion of Satan been this way, that it hath been universally taught, and believed, that an implicit faith was sufficient in the lay people, & that no more was required of them then to believe, as the Church (that is, the (guide's, and governors of the Church) believed, though they were utterly ignorant what their faith was. And what less in effect doth M. B. affirm in his “ pag. 145. 2. book, where he writes, that, if the chief do voluniarily receive, profess, & proclaim a faith, or religion, it is to be accounted the act of all, though the inferiors come not to consent? he might as well have added, though they be ignorant of it, or what it means. Yea doth not this conclusion follow upon the former ground, that the officers are the Church. Mat. 18. for the reproving & censuring of offenders, and for the binding, & losing of sins? If the Officers be the Church for one religious, or spiritual determination, why not for an other? And if the censures agreed upon and ministered by the Officers, be by way of representation, the censures of the Church, without the actual consent of the people; why is not the faith agreed upon, and published by the officers the faith of the Church, by way of representation, before the people's distinct knowledge of it, or actual consent unto it? Put the case the officers change their ancient faith in some main point, wherein the body of the Church still abideth, and so differeth from them; and that they take occasion to excommunicate some brother, or brothers, that most opposes them: if this excommunication of the officers be the excommunication of the Church representatively, without the people's consent; then is this new faith also of the officers, for which this excommunication is practised, the faith of the people notwithstanding their not only not consenting unto, but their utter dissenting from the same. Now as the governors did thus engross the power, and liberties of the Church, so no marvel, though with them, they assumed the name. Hence is it that they alone are called the Church, the Clergy, the spiritually: the profane idiotish laity are excluded both from the title, and thing. Simon the Saddler, To●●k●● the Tailor, Belly pag. 197. the Bellowes-maker must be no Church men, nor meddle with Ch: matters. As though it were either not true, or to no purpose, which is written, that Christ himself was † Mar. 6. 3. a Carpenter * Act. 18. 3." Math. 4. 18. 21. Paul a tentmaker," Peter, Andrew, james, & john Fishermen. One only thing more I will add, & so conclude this point; which is, that the Priests were not more eager at the first upon the people, till they had swallowed up their liberty, than they were afterwards one upon an other, till one had gotten all; from whom, as from the Catholic visible head, all power should issue, and be derived to the several parts of the body. And how clean a way Mr Bern. and others (which knowing better have the more sin) make to this mischief, in pleading that Paul alone, 1 Cor. 5. & the several Angels alone in the several Church's Rev. 2. & 3. were to reform, and censure abuses, let the wise reader judge. The 2. allegation made by Mr B. against which I except, is, that the Ministers with them have all things in substance required by the word Mr B. of God for their making, as presentation, election, examination, ordination, with imposition of hands; and that the exceptions we take are but about circumstances only, and same manner of doing: which do not make a nullity, or falsity of the deed done. As we do except against the very office itself, and against the Answ. main, and most principal works of it, by law required, as works of will-worship, and † Col. 2. 23. voluntary religion, so do our exceptions against the very calling, and entrance of your Ministers evince them sufficiently not to be the true Ministers of Christ. “ Heb. 5. 4. 5. No man takes this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as Aaron. No, Christ himself took not this honour to be made the high Pr●●st, but he that said unto him, thou art my son, this day begat I thee, gave it him. And if Christ the Lord of his Church did not take upon him the solemn administration of his office, till by the Father he was called thereunto from heaven, it is great presumption for any man (and he a bold usurper, that so practiseth) to take upon him any office in the Church, not being chosen and called thereunto by them, which under the Lord, have received this Charter, thus to call Ministers, which are only his Church, and people. And by this doctrine of Mr Bern: that failings in circumstances, and manner of doing, make not a nullity, or falsity of the deed, it should follow, that if a company of Papists, Arians, Anabaptists, or of any other Haeretiques, or idolaters should choose, and call a minister, though it were a child, an idiot, yea a woman, & that after the most profane, and superstitious manner that could be, yet this made no nullity, or falsity of the action, for all were but errors in circumstances, and manners of doing. Yea by this trifling, murder, adultery, and all the mischiefs in the world might be defended. If a private person should take upon him without lawful authority to be a judge, and should condemn the innocent, and justify the guilty person, all the evil were but in the circumstances of persons judging, and judged. If a man gave his body to the wife of another man, the evil were but circumstantial, he might have done it to another person, namely his own or proper wife. What confusion would these excuses of circumstances only, & manner of doing things, bring over all estates, if they were admitted of? Of this mischief I have spoken, pag. 21. 22. 23. 37. The 3. consideration in this matter is, about such devises, as Mr Bern. hath found for the shifting off such places, as prove that the people ought to choose their Ministers. The scriptures are Act. 1. and 6. & 14. 23. to which also might be added Numb. 8. 9 10. Act. 11. 22. 1 Cor. 16. 3. 2 Cor. 8 19 with many others. His answer Mr B. is, first, that these places testify, that such examples of practice were then, but that there is no precept for the perpetuity of it. This is an ungodly evasion * Mat. 15. 6. Hebr. 9 15. 16. 17. making the commandments of God of Answ: none authority by men's traditions: & tending to the abolishment of the testament of Christ, which he hath confirmed by his death: wherein he hath not only by practice, but also by the doctrine † Eph. 2. 20 21. of the Apostles, upon which he hath founded the Church, or temple of God, for ever, established this ordinance, as a part of the new testament: and that not upon some extraordinary, temporary, and changeable occasion, as some thing have been ordered, and decreed by the Apostles, Act. 15. 1. 2. 28. 29. but upon ordinary, & constant grounds, and upon reasons, and causes of perpetual equity; such as concern all Churches in all places to the world's end: as shall appear hereafter. When the Lord jesus sent forth his Apostles to gather Churches, he gave them in charge “ Math. 28. 20. to teach them to observe all things, whatsoever he had commanded them. promising withal that in so doing he would be with them always until the end of the world. And that, amongst other doctrines, they taught the people this, that they were to choose their officers, the scriptures cited do fully testify. See Act. 1. 15. 16. 16— 23. & 6. 2. 3. 5 6. & 14. 23. Answerable unto this is that which the Apostle Paul protesteth to the ‘* Act 20. 17. 20. 26. 27. Elders of Ephesus at Miletum that he was pure from the blood of all men, in that he had kept no thing back, but showed them all the counsel of God: one part of which counsel was, that the people were to choose their Officers, which by Mr Bernard's own grant they observed. to which also add, that the same Apostle writing unto the Church of Corinth about a matter of “ 1. Cor. 14 40. order, avoweth † v. 37. 38. the things which he writes, to be the commandments of the Lord; and chargeth all them as wilfully ignorant, which do not so acknowledge them. With what conscience then. or colour of reason ●an this man say, that this power, and right of the people to choose their Ministers, was only a matter of practice, but not of precept? & no immediate right from Christ, but a grant unto them from the Apostles, or upon their exhortation for the time? It is true he saith in the same place, 1. that the people did not elect, or choose, but when the Apostles were amongst them; & 2. that they pag. 296. did it upon their exhortation. And for the first who denies, but that where faithful, and godly officers are, the people are by their direction, & government according to the will of Christ, to use their liberty in this, and all the other affairs of the Church? So for the second, it was so the Apostles exhortation, as it was also a divine institution by the spirit of God, never reversed but by those * Rev. 16. 13. 14. unclean spirits of Devils, which like frogs came out of the mouth of the Dragon, and out of the mouth of the Beast, and out of the mouth of the false Prophet: part of the counsel of God, never altered, or departed from, but by them, “ Isa. 30. 1. which take counsel, but not of God: and lastly, one of the commandments of Christ, which the Apostles were bound both to teach, and exhort the people to observe, never disannulled, but by the counter-commaund, craft, and violence of Antichrist: who as one of your own Prelates hath truly observed, never ceased, till by cursing, and fight he had gotten all into his own hands. The insinuation therefore which you make against us in assuming this liberty unto us, as a right of ourselves, is unjust: considering we have it conveyed unto us from Christ in the writings of the Apostles, wherein they do as expressly teach it us, and as effectually exhort us unto it, as if they were personally present with us. And that which the people might then do in their presence, upon their speech, they may now do upon their writings, in their absence, and in the absence of all other officers also, if the particular Churches be for the present unfurnished of them. Now where he further addeth, that the people than were very judicious, and able to make a choice, whereas it is now far otherwise with many: it is of some consideration for the people, & Church of England, but of none at all for the people, & Church of God. If the people in the parish assemblies there should usurp this power, it would be far otherwise with them indeed, for the most part, then with people judicious, or able to make a choice. Can blind men judge of colours,? or * 1 Cor. 2. 14. natural men of spiritual things? If a man would prophesy unto them of wine, and strong drink, he were a Prophet for such a people. It is certain they would choose Ministers like themselves, ignorant, & loose fellows for the most part, & the saying of the Prophet would be verified, * Hos. 4. ●. as is the people, so is the Priest. And yet worse than are made, and chosen by the Bishops, and Patrons generally, they could hardly find. But observe yourself Mr B. when you plead for 2. Book 110 114. the ignorance, and profaneness of your own people, you write that the Apostles received into the Church's persons very ignorant▪ and of lewd conversation: Now when you come to plead against the liberty of the people of God, you make them in the Apostles times to have been very judicious, & able to discern of things, far otherwise then the people now are. Now for the exception itself, it is of no value. But as the ordinances, and administration of the jewish Church, remained the same, and unalterable, though the people's knowledge were not always the same but sometimes greater, sometimes less: so is it in the estate of the new testament with all them which deem that † Heb. 3 3. Christ the Son is worthy of as much honour in his ordinances, as was Moses, a servant of the house, in his. And if this devise were admitted of, that the liberty of the people should ebb, and flow, according to the measure of their knowledge, then should not all the brethren in the same Church have the same Christian liberty in the choice of officers, censuring of offenders, and the like ordinances; for all have not the same measure of knowledge, nay it may be scarce two of all; so diverse is the dispensation of grace to the several members. Then should scarce two several Churches in the world enjoy the same Christian liberty, the one with the other; no nor any one with itself, any long time, since one Church differeth from another, yea from itself at diverse times, in the measure, & degree of knowledge, and other graces of God. Besides, if we should weigh together in the balances, the Churches of Christ now, and in the Apostles times, the Christian liberty of the people would rather sway the balance this way, than the other way, and to the people now, then in the Apostles days. For first there were present with the people in those first times, besides other extraordinary officers extraordinarily endowed, the Apostles themselves, those great Maister-buylders, which (if any other in the world) might lawfully have deprived the people of their power in this & the like cases: which notwithstanding they did not, but on the contrary did faithfully inform, & direct them according to the commandment of Christ, in the right, & lawful use of the same. And yet notwithstanding the Bishops of the Romish, and English Church (though not worthy so much as of the name of daubers in the Lord's house, in comparison of those other Maister-buylders) dare without fear, or shame, engross all into their own hands; and have their proctors, this man and others, many a one, to plead for them in their usurpation. 2. The Churches in the Apostles time were newly converted from judaism, and Paganism, and had still cleaving unto them much ignorance in many great points. And in particular, the disciples, or Church at jerusalem, after they were both possessed, and had use of Act. & 1. 6. this power of choosing officers, were ignorant of no less a point then the calling of the Gentiles; of which, or the like main ground Act. 10. 14 15▪ 3●. 35. with Ch. 11 2. 3. 4. 5. & ●. of religion, no true Church of Christ now is ignorant, as that Ch: then was. And thus it appeareth, that the choice of Officers by the people in the primitive Churches was not a matter casual or of the Apostles courtesy, but a commandment of Christ, left penned by the H. Ghost, as is the rest of that story, and of those Acts of the Apostles, for our direction, and the direction of all the Churches of Christ to the world's end. One shift more Mr Bernard makes, from which he must be put, and that is, that the Patron chooseth for the people a fit man, whom the Mr B. Bishop finding fit by examination, ordaineth, and that this is a lawful calling. pag. 319. To let pass, that the Patrons usually choose not for the people, Answ. but for themselves, and their own profits, and pleasures, which though it be apparent to all men, is (not without cause) winked at by the Bishops, considering how, and by what means they procure their own choice, I answer first, that the patron doth not choose for the people, that is, as the people did choose in the Apostles times. For the people than made choice of such, as were before private persons, but by their election to be ordained into office: where the Patron chooseth a Clerk, who is in office already, and ordained by the Bishop before the Patron make choice of him. The Bishop doth at the first make him a Minister at large, and not of any particular Church, and so sends him, as it were, to graze upon the Commons, till afterwards he be found by, or rather find, some Patron, which by his presentation makes a gap, and lets him into some vacant Vicarage, or Parsonage, there to minister accordingly. But admit in the 2. place, that the Patron stood in the room of the people to choose for them, I would demand, who set him there? or where the scriptures do either teach or approve of any such A●●urney-ships in the matters of religion, & of God's worship, as you make by telling us in one place that the officers do make profession of faith; in another, that they censure offenders; & here, that they choose Ministers for the people. If some one man in a parish had ●nta●l●d to him and his heirs for ever, the power of appointing husbands to all the women in the parish, the bondage were intolerable, though in a matter of civil nature: how much more intolerable than is the spiritual bondage of the parish assemblies under the imperious presentations of those Lord patrons, whose Clerks they must receive, and submit unto, whither they will or no? Great is the sin of the people, which lose this † Gal. 5. ●. liberty, greater of the Patrons, which engross it, but the greatest of all is that for the Ministers, which by their doctrine, & practise, confirm both the one and the other in their iniquity: all three conspiring together in this, that they alter the ordinances, and commandments of Christ by his Apostles, and so both * Deu. 4. ●. Rev. 22. 18▪ 19 diminish of his institution, & add of ●heir own devise. Now as the forenamed scriptures (like a gracious charter given to this spiritual corporation, the Church, by the King thereof, jesus Christ) do clearly plead the people's liberty, and power of the choice of their Ministers, so will I add unto them certain Reasons, to prove this order, and ordinance to be of moral, and perpetual equity. The first is because the bond between the Minister, and people I. is the most strait, and near religious bond that may be, and therefore not to be entered but with mutual consent, any more than the civil bond of marriage between the husband, and wife. II. It makes much both for the provocation of the Ministry unto Act. 20. 2● 29. job. 10. 9 12. 13. Act. 6. 1— 5. all diligence, and faithfulness: and also for his comfort in all the trials, and temptations which befall him in his Ministry, when he considereth how the people, unto whom he ministereth, have committed that most rich treasure of their souls (in the Lord) yea I may say, of their very faith, & joy, to be helped forward unto salvation, 2 Cor. 1. 24 to his care, and charge, by their free, and voluntary choice of him. It much furthers the love of the people to the person of their III. Minister, and so consequently, their obedience unto his doctrine, and government, when he is such a one, as themselves in duty unto God, and love of their own salvation, have made choice of: as on the contrary, it leaves them without excuse, if they either perfidiously forsake, or unprofitably use such a man's holy service, and ministration. FOUR Lastly it is agreeable to all equity, and reason, that all free persons, and estates should choose their own servants, and them unto whom they give wages, and maintenance for their labour, and service. But so it is betwixt the people, and ministers: the people a free people, & the Church a free estate spiritual, under Christ the King▪ the Ministers the Churches (as Christ's) † Rom. 15. 31. 2 Cor. 4. 5. & 1. Cor. 9 14. servants: & so by the Church's provision ●o live, and of her, as “ 1 Tim. 5. 18. labourers to receive wages. Thus much of the 4. Argument. The 5. followeth, the sum whereof is, that, because the Ministers of the English assemblies, teach true, and sound doctrine in the root, and fundamental points of religion, they Mr. B. are therefore the true Ministers of Christ. And that sound doctrine is the trial of a true Minister, Mr B. would prove from these scriptures, Answ. 1 Tim. 4. 6. jer. 23. 22. Of the unsound doctrine of your Church, and that more specially in the fundamental points of religion, “ Mr joh. Answ. to Mr jacob. pag. 46. 47. 48. etc. 157▪ 158. etc. others have spoken at large formerly, and something is by me hereafter to be spoken: for the present therefore this shall serve, that, since † 1 Cor. 3. 11 Christ jesus not only as Priest, and Prophet, but as King, is the foundation of his Church: and that the visible Church is * Mat. 13. 11. 19 24. 31. 33. & 21. 5. 43. Act. 1 3. the kingdom of Christ; the doctrines touching the subjects, government, officers, & laws of the Church, can be no less than fundamental doctrines of the same Church, or Kingdom. Which how unsound they are with you, appears in your Canons ecclesiastical composed for that purpose. Which if your ministers preach, they preach unsound doctrine, and strike at a main pillar of religion, viz: the visible † 1 Tim. 3. 14. Church of God, which is the pillar, and ground of truth, as the Apostle speaketh: if not, then are they schismatics in, and from your Church, whose solemn doctrines they refuse to publish. Now because Mr Bern. every where bears himself big upon the sound doctrines taught by the ministers in England, and in this place brings in two scriptures to warrant their Ministry upon this ground, let us a little consider of the scriptures, and of the intent of them, and what verdict they give in on his side. In the one place, the Prophet * Ch. 23. 22. ver. 11 jeremy reproves the Priests and Prophets, for not dealing faithfully with the people, in laying before them their abominations, and Gods judgements due unto the same, that so they might have turned from their evil ways, and from the wickedness of their v. 22. inventions; but for flattering them on the contrary, in their iniquities, and for preaching peace unto them, for the strengthening of their v. 14. 17. hands in evil. Now if the Ministers in England be measured by these men's line, they will appear to lie level with them in a great measure. For first, the greatest part of them by far, declare not the Lord's word at all unto the people, but are tonguetyed that way, some through ignorance, some through idleness, & many through pride. And of them which preach how many are there mere men-pleasers, flattering the mighty with vain, and plausibly words, and strengthening the hands of the wicked; and with profane, and malicious spirits, reviling, and disgracing all sincerity in all men: adding unto these evils a wicked conversation, by which they further the destruction of many, but the conversion of none. And lastly, for those few of more sound doctrine, and unblamable conversation, let these things be considered. First, they are reputed schismatics in the Church of Engl: & I. are generally excommunicated ipso facto, & so will appear to be to any that compares their practice with the ecclesiastical laws of that Church. 2. They do with these sound doctrines mingle many errors: II. yea the same things which in the general they teach, and profess, they do in the particulars, but specially in their practice, gainsay, & deny. 3. As they declare the Lords will unto the people but by halves, and III. keep back a great part of his counsel, which they know is profitable for them, & wherein they would walk with them, were it not for fear of persecution, so are they ready to the silenced, & to smother the whole counsel of the L., & not to speak one word more in his name unto the people upon ●h●ir Lord Bishop's inhibition: which (were they persuaded in their consciences they were sent of God) I suppose they durst not do. Of which more in the seventh Argument. Now for that in Tim. 1. Epist. 4. ch. ver. 6. if the doctrine of the Ministers agree with the doctrine, and practise of the Ch: they will appear liker to them, of whom Paul speaks, ver. 3. then to Timothy, ver: 6. If it be said, that the Church of England, forbid▪ not marriage, & use of meats absolutely, but in certain respects; I answer, no more doth the Church of Rome, but to certain persons, and at certain times: against whom notwithstanding all Protestants do apply this scripture: and so doth the Church of England forbid them; though more sparingly (as good reason the daughter come something behind the mother) as marriage to fellows in Colleges, and to Apprentices, and to all at certain times, especially at Lent: during which holy time, the eating of flesh is also forbidden, and abstinence commanded, and that in incitation of * Book of Common pr. Christ's f●●ting for our sakes forty days, and forty nights; and that for a religious use, namely the subduing of the flesh unto the spirit, for the better obedience of godly mottoes in righteousness, & true holiness, as the Collect for the first sunday in Lent witnesseth. But admit the Ministers of Engl: taught fondly in all the main points of religion, as I acknowledge some do in the most, yet did this no way prove them true Ministers of Christ, that is, lawfully called to true offices in the Church. In what main point of religion (as you value points) could Corah be challenged? and yet he was no true Priest of the Lord, but Num. 16. an usurper of that office▪ v. 10. 11. as on the contrary, they were jer. 23. 11. true Priests, in respect of their office, who deceived the people here, and every where, as the scriptures manifest. So that both he, which is no true minister of Christ, may teach the ma●n truths of religion: and he also that is a true Minister, may err greatly, & yet not presently cease to bear both the place, and name of a true minister of Christ. Otherwise all Ministers are Popes, that cannot ere. To end this Argument, Mr B. in both his books would have probation, and trial to be made of a man's gifts, and graces before he be admitted into the ministry. And not only he, but Paul himself amongst, & above the rest, requires, * 1. Tim. 3. 2. aptness to teach and † Tit. 1. ● ability to exhort with wholesome doctrine: and as this gift must be in him, so must it be known to be in him, before he can be lawfully called into the ministry▪ and this Mr B. affirms expressly, and that by the exercise of this gift, his knowledge, zeal and utterance, is to be manifested. Whereupon I conclude that, if trial by sound doctrine must be made of them, which are no ministers at all (as indeed it must in the exercise of prophesying) then cannot sound doctrine be any sufficient trial, that is proof, or Argument, of a true minister. The sixth Argument for the justification of the ministers in Engl. Mr B. is, God's ordinary, and daily assistance of them in their ministry, for the working men's conversion unto the Lord. God forbid I should either deny, or make doubt of the effectual Answ. conversion of men unto salvation in Engl. neither doth Mr Ainsworth say (as you charge him in your 2. book) that none are converted Pag. 298. by you: but he shows, first, how you contradict yourselves in saying that you convert men to God, and yet affirm, that the same persons before their conversion, were true Christians: and 2. that considering the swarms of graceless persons, wherewith all your parishes are filled, you have more cause of blushing, then of boasting this way. But this I deny, that the conversion of men unto God is a sufficient Argument to prove a true minister of Christ: that is, to prove a lawful calling into a true office of ministry, according to Christ's testament. It is most evident, that whosoever converteth a man unto God, that person doth in truth, and in deed minister the word of God, & the spirit by the word: & so may be said to be sent of God; but that every one, whom God so honoureth, (though never so ordinarily) should therefore be a true Church officer lawfully called to public administration (which is the question betwixt Mr B. and me) is most untrue & contrary both to many * Lev. 4. 22 23 27. 28. & 19 17. mat. 18. 15. joh. 4. 39 Act. 8. 4. with 11. 1● 20. 21. 1. Cor 14. 24. 25. jam. ●. 19 20. scriptures, which show that men in no office, may, and to much experience, which shows they do convert, and save sinners. And if only officers may convert unto the Lord, to what purpose should private persons exhort, instruct, and reprove any upon any occasion whatsoever? But here I am driven to take upon me the defence of them, whom Mr B. pag. 299. of his 2. book challengeth for cavellers, upon the same ground▪ he challengeth Mr Ainsworth for deceitful dealing, pag. 304. of the same book. Mr Ainsworth denies that qualification with good gifts is a proof of a lawful Minister. Herein saith Mr B. he severs deceitfully things Mr B. to be conjoined, for this reason with the rest in my book, shows, who is a true Minister. In like manner, we except against his 6. Argument, & affirm that others, besides Ministers, do convert men to God; & that therefore conversion argues not a true minister. This is cavilling, saith Mr B. for both these, and others may conv●rt: and again this is but one Reason, but there be more beside, which are sufficient to prove our ministry. And is it cavilling in us, or ignorance in you thus to speak? Answ. you do acknowledge pag. 304. that qualification with good gifts is a Reason amongst the rest to show a true Minister: and pag. 298 you make the conversion of men, a distinct argument to prove the same thing. And know you not, that every sound Reason, or Argument must prove, or argue, of itself, the thing, for which it is brought? Many Reasons indeed, or Arguments may be produced to prove one, and the same thing: and so for further confirmation, may follow one upon another: but so as every one of them severally be of force to prove the thing in question, otherwise it is not worthy the name of a Reason, or Argument, but is a mere sophistication. Either therefore Mr Bernard bring such Arguments, as will of themselves evince that they are brought for; and then reckon them up by sevens as you do here; or by twenties if you will, as else where you do: or else cease to abuse the Reader with a multitude of maimed proofs as your custom is. Now because the conversion of men to God is much urged by the Ministers, and much stood at by many well minded people (as indeed both in equity, and good conscience, men are to respect the instruments of God's mercy towards them) I will enlarge myself, in this point, further, then otherwise I would. And first for the two scriptures quoted in both your books. Mr B. 2. book p. 308 Rom. 10. 14. 15. 1 Cor. 9 2. from the former of which you conclude, that because you so preach, as people thereby do hear, believe, & call upon God, you are therefore sent of God. Let the Reader here observe, that the Apostle in both these places Answ. speaks of the conversion of Heathens, and Infidels to the faith of Christ, as were the romans, and Corinthians before the preaching of the Gospel unto them: and so let him demand of Mr B. whether the Ministers in England have had the same effect in their preaching unto the people there, with them, that preached unto the romans, and Corinthians, and brought them by preaching from infidelity to believe in God? If they have, than were the people Infidels before, and without faith, and so are the rest not thus effectually converted by their preaching: if not, how then stands the comparison, or proportion between the effect of their Ministry then, and theirs in England now? or what Argument can be taken from these effects compared together? In the general, I confess, there is a proportion, and so in that general, and large sense, wherein Mr B. pag. 313. expounds the word sent, or Apostle, I do acknowledge many Ministers in Engl: sent of God▪ that is, that it comes not to pass without the special providence, and ordination of God, that such, and such men should rise up, and preach such, and such truths for the furtherance of the salvation of Gods elect in the places, where they come. They which † Phil. 1. 15 16. preached Christ of envy, and strif●, to add more afflictions to the Apostles bonds, were in this respect sent of God, and therefore it was, that the Apostle toyed a● ver. 18. their preaching. How much more they that preach of a sincere mind, though through ignorance, or infirmity▪ both their place, & entrance into it be most unwarrantable? * Gen. 37. 4 8. 11. 28. Act. 7. 9 Joseph's brethren▪ the Patriarches, did of h●●red and envy sell him into Egypt: and yet the scriptures testify, that ‘* Gen. 45. 1. 7. 8. God sent him thither. And the same God which could use their malice (by which he was sold into Egypt) for the bodily good of his people there; even he can use the power of A●tichrist, (by which the Ministers in the Church of England have their calling) Psal. 100L. 17. for the spiritual good of his people there. And yet neither the secondary means of Joseph's sending, nor of the Ministers either entry, or standing, any thing at all the more warrantable. The other scripture is 1 Cor. 9 2. of which I have spoken something formerly, & others much more: & in which for the avoiding of ambiguity, I consider these two things. First, what the Apostle purposeth to prove: and 2. the medium, or Argument by which he proves his purpose. Touching the former, it is evident, his purpose is to prove himself an Apostle, in the most strict, and proper sense, (howsoever * pag. 321. Mr B. tri●les) contrary to the false insinuations of his adversaries, which bore the Churches in hand against him, that he was only an ordinary Minister, or at least, inferior to the Apostles, and had his calling, and other ministrations from, and under them: as appeareth. 1 Cor. 9 1. 2 Cor. 10. 16. and 12. 12. Gal. 1. 1. 17. 18. 19 & 2. 6. 7. 8. 9 The Argument to prove this, which he also calls the seal of his Apostleship, and his work, Mr B. ●akes, the Lords effectual working by 1. Book. p. 120. his Ministry, in the conversion of souls unto God. Touching which his affirmation, I desire first to know whether 2. Book. p. 321. this conversion of the Corinthians by Paul were to sanctification of life, yea, or no? If he say no, he gainsays the Apostle, and his testimony of them: who, writing unto the Church at Corinthus, confesseth them there “ 1 Cor. 1. 1 to be sanctified in Christ jesus, and Saints by calling: and again advertising them, that † Ch. 6. 9 1●. 11. neither fornica●ours, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners should inherit the kingdom of heaven, he testifieth of them, that such were some of them, but saith he, ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the L. jesus, and by the spirit of our God. Besides, if Paul's work were not the work of sanctification upon the Corinthians, how will M. B. raise his Argument for the Ministers in England, from their work of sanctification upon the people there? If on the other side he say, that the conversion by Paul's ministry was unto sanctification, he contradicts himself in his own distinction of double conversion, pag. 307: of his 2. book, where he allows unto the romans, Corinthians, and Eph●sians, only the primary conversion, which is to the profession of Christ, but not the secondary, which is to sanctification of life. In which his distinction, as he idly imagines a true conversion without sanctification, so doth he highly detract from the APOSTLE PAUL, as if he had not converted men to sanctification; or had gathered Churches of persons unsanctified outwardly, and in the judgement of charity. 2. How can the simple conversion of men prove both Mr Ber. an ordinary Minister, which he would be, and Paul no ordinary Minister, but an extraordinary Apostle, which he would be? 3. If conversing be a sign of a true Minister, then are both the Bishops in Engl: and the Ministers in the reformed Churches, true Ministers: for without doubt, some of both have been instruments under God of men's conversion: but that is impossible, considering how the Ministry of the one, wheresoever it comes, eats up, & destroys the other. Yea than should both the Ministers of Engl: and we here of the separation (who have as M. B: truly answers Mr Smyth, renounced our Ministry received from the Bishops, and do exercise an other by the people's choice) be true Ministers of Christ: for as they there avouch this work of conversion, so have we also here been made partakers of the same grace of God: & found hi● blessing even that way upon our Ministry also. 4. As it was the most proper work of an Apostle to convert Heathens to the Lord, and † 1 Cor. 4. 15. & 3. 6. ●. in Christ jesus to beget them through the Gospel, and so to plan● Churches, not rejoicing in the things already prepared by others, but to preach the gospel, even where Christ had not been named: so is it on the other side the Pastor's work to feed than that are Cor. 10. 16. already begotten, converted, & praepared: and therefore the Apostle Rom. 15. 20 Paul comprehends the whole Pastors, and Elders duty under the “ Act. 20. 17. 28. fee●ing of the flock, all and every part whereof he avoucheth in the judgement, and evidence of charity, to be purchased with the blood of Christ. And what is a Pastor, but a shepherd? and over what flock is a shepherd set, but over a flock of sheep? and who are sheep, but they which have laid aside their goatish, and swinish nature? which till men have learned to do, they are rather swine, and goats, than sheep, and so are they, which keep them, rather swyneheards, and goteheards, than shepherds. But here two exceptions made by Mr Bernard, in his second pag. 308. book must be satisfied. The former is, that, the Pastor is to feed such little ones, as are borne in the Church: the other, that he is to Mr B. reclaim such unto sanctification, as fall to wickedness. To the former exception I do answer. First, that Paul in the place in hand, raiseth no argument at all from any work upon the ●●●l● ones born in the Church of Corinth, but upon the men of riper years, whom he turned from idolatry to the true God. 2. Even ●●●l● ones born in the Church, may in their order, and after their manner, be said to be converted, or turned unto the Lord, or born again, which are all one: otherwise being * Eph. 2. 3. by nature children of wrath, “ Psal. 51. 5 born in iniquity, and conceived in sin, how could they be reputed * 1 Cor. 7. 14. holy? yea how could they possibly be saved, or enter into God's kingdom? joh. 3. 5. And since you grant Mr B. that the Pastor is to feed those little ones, do you not therein acknowledge they are converted, or borne a new? In the preface of your book you would have men begotten after they were born: and here you will have them fed before they be borne. Now for those little ones, as we are to repute them holy in regard of the lords covenaunt, and do therefore set his seal upon them, so are their parents even from their cradle to * Eph. 6. 4. bring them up in instruction, & information of the Lord: and so to prepare them for the public ministry: unto which if they in their riper years give obedience in any measure, they are so to be continued in the Church: if other-otherwise, they are in due time, as unprofitable branches to be lopped of, and so cease to be of the pastors charge. Secondly for men falling into wickedness in the Church; if they continue obstinate, and irreclamable, then are they in order to be consured, and so the Pastor is discharged of them: if on the contrary, God vouchsafe them repentance, this cannot be called a conversion of them to sanctification, but a “ Gal. 6. 1. restoring, or recovering of them out of some particular evil, or evils, into which, through infirmity, they are fallen. So that the doctrine stands sound, for any thing that Mr Bernard hath said, or that either he, or any other man can say, that the pastors office stands in feeding, not in converting: as also that Paul's scale, and work, was not the bare conversion of the Corinthians, but their conversion from heathenism, plantation into a Church, and these with the signs of an Apostle, even signs, and wonders, and great works, 2 Cor. 12. 12. Lastly, that the simple be not deceived, and either give honour where it is not due; or give it not, where it is due, let them consider, that the conversion of a man is no way to be ascribed to the order or office either of Apostles, or Pastors, but only to the word of God, which by the inward work of the spirit is † Rom. 1. 16 the power of God to salvation, to them that believe: it is * ●Psal. 19 7. the law of the Lord, that converts the soul. The *‘ Mat. 13. 19 23. word of the kingdom is that good seed, which being sown in good ground prospereth to the bringing forth of fruit to life, whether he that sow it be in a true office, or in a false office, or in no office at all. And though it be true, which Mr B. saith in his “ pag. 130. former book, that the Ministers in England do preach as public Officers of that Church, yet doth their Office confer, or help nothing at all to the conversion of men. It is the blessing of God upon the main truths they teach, not upon their office of priesthood, which converts: which truths if they taught without their office, either before they were called to it, or being deprived of it, would without doubt be as effectual, as they are, yea, & much more, by the blessing of God; as appears in this, that such amongst them, as make least account of their office formally received from the Prelates, are the most profitable instruments amongst the people: where on the contrary, the professed formalists cleaving unto their office, and order canonically, are generally unprofitable either for the conversion, or confirmation of any to, or in holiness. To conclude then, the turning of men unto holiness of life, is no justification of your office of ministry, or calling unto it, but of such truths, as are taught amongst you: which all men are bound to hold, and honour, as we also do: though we disclaym the order, and power, in and by which they are ministered. The seventh, and last argument Mr B. takes from certain properties of true shepherds, laid down, joh. 10. which he also affirmeth, Mr B. the Ministers of the Church of England have: the first whereof is, that they go in by the door, jesus Christ, that is, by his call, and the Churches, which (as he saith) he hath proved at large. In so saying he speaks at large: let him prove, that the Bishop▪ Answ. or Patron, or either of them, is in Christ's place set by him to choose Ministers: or that they are the Church, to which he hath committed the power of calling and choosing them, and answer the Reasons brought to the contrary: otherwise his large proving will appear but a large boasting: and he will give men occasion to remember the proverb, It is good beating a proud man. The 2. property wherewith he investeth them, is, that the porter openeth unto them: by which porter Mr Smith means the Church, for which Mr B▪ reviles him out of measure; making the porter invisibly Mr B. God's spirit, visibly the authority committed by the Church unto some for admitting men into the house, the Church of God, which saith he, is a sensible exposition according to the custom with us, and in judaea. As there are many true ministers (in respect of men) which enter Answ. not in at all by the spirit of God, or any motion of it, as it was with judas, & is with all hypocrites, who for by-respects take that calling upon them: so is Mr Smiths exposition making the Church the porter far more probable than yours, who make the porter, the authority, of the Church committed to some for the admission of men. Is not the porter a person rather than a thing? And who that hath but common sense, will not rather by the porter understand the person or persons having authority, than the authority, which he, or they have? And if you Mr B. had but remembered, what you write of the properties of the Church pag. 237. 138. making as here you do, the porter, or authority of the Church a property of a shepherd, you would (I suppose) in modesty have forborn the charging of Mr Smith to have his brains intoxicated by his new ways, & to be madded by his own fantasies in religion, for writing in this point, as he doth. And for the thing itself, it is evident, that Christ jesus is properly the shepherd of the sheep, here spoken of: and that therefore the authority ●. ●. 11. of the Church can be no porter for high entrance, or admission. I do therefore rather think, that by the porter is meant God the father, whose care, and providence is ever over his flock, who therefore hath called, and appointed his son jesus Christ to be that good shepherd, who gave his life for his sheep. And if you will apply this to ordinary Pastors, and their calling, then sure by the porter must be meant such, as have received this liberty, & power from Christ by the hands of his Apostles, for the choosing, and appointing of ministers, which I am sure, of all others, are not the Romish▪ or English Bishops. Christ would never have the wolves to appoint his sheep their shepherds. The 3. property of good shepherds which you challenge to your Mr B. selves, is, that they call their own sheep by name, that is, they take notice of their people▪ of their growth in religion ●●d do abide with them, diligently watching over their flocks: as by true and faithful promise made in the open congregation they be bound in their ordination. It must here be observed, as before, that Christ speaks only of Answ. himself properly; for of him only, it can be said, that the sheep a● his own: the people are very improperly called the Minister's sheep: & Christ saith not unto Peter † joh. 21. 15 16. 17. feed thy sheep, but my sheep. 2. To take your own exposition Mr B. how can your prelates, whom in the 6. Argument you make shepherds, call their sheep by name, or take notice of, & watch over their whole Diocesan, and Provincial flocks? Yea if yourself or any one amongst you, take notice of your people, as the flock of Christ, and of their growth in religion, they take notice of that which is not. I speak of the flock, though I doubt no● but there are some sheep straying from the right fold, in your herds. Of the abiding of your Ministers with their flocks, we shall speak hereafter: only this in the mean while, that considering how many flocks you yourself Mr B. have forsaken, me thinks you should have forborn, in wisdom, to make this one property of a true shepherd. A 4. property of a good shepherd, you say, you have, which Mr B. is, to lead forth your sheep, viz, from pasture to pasture, from milk to strong meat, etc. There are many fair, and wholesome pastures in the field of Answ. God's word, into which you do not lead your sheep, no nor so much as point to them with the finger: neither indeed dare you, because they are hedged in with human authority, your statutes, & canons ecclesiastical. Nay all your care is to keep your people from the knowledge of them, lest they should break through those thorny hedges, at which you stick. The 5. and last property for which you commend yourselves, is, Mr B. your going before the flocks, that is, in godly conversation. As I acknowledge the unblamable conversation of many amongst Answ. you, so do many Papists, Anabaptists, and other vile haeretiques, and schismatics walk as unblamably this way, as you; and yet are they not true shepherds of Christ's sheep. But by the shepherds going before the sheep in this place is meant, as I take it, partly the care of the minister in governing the people; partly, his constancy in danger, to which he exposeth himself in the forefront; and in these respects, he is said to go before the flock. Now f●ll ●ll do these properties agree with the Ministers, for whom Mr Bernard pleadeth. Who as they govern not the people at all, but are themselves & the people with them under the government of their Diocesan and Provincial Pastors: so do they in the time of danger most perfidiously forsake their flocks: wherein their sin is the greater, considering the faithful promise, which you yourself testify they make in the open congregation, diligently to watch over their flocks. Now howsoever, that which hath been spoken will appear, I doubt not, sufficient to force Mr B. from this 10 of john, yet because he d●●ms it so strong an hold for him, as we cannot overthrow it, pag. 302. we will adventure a little further upon it, and see whither there be not to be found in it sufficient of the Lords munition, not only to batter the wall, but even to raze the foundation of the ministry of England for which he pleadeth. I. First then, all true shepherds are set over flocks of * joh. 21. 15. 16. 17. Act 2●. 1●. 25. 29. sheep to feed them. But the ministers in England were not set over flocks of sheep, but indeed over herds of swine, goats, and dogs with some few sheep scattered amongst them. Which the wild, & filthy beasts push worry, and defile. Therefore the ministers of England are not true shepherds. 2. True shepherds enter in by the door Christ, v. 2. 7. that is by TWO the means, which his Apostles at his appointment, have commended unto the Churches, act. 6. 2. 3. 4. 5. &. 14. 23. But the ministers in England enter into their charges by the presentation of a Patron, the institution of a prelate, & the induction of an Archdeacon, which is not the door opened by Christ, for the shepherd to enter by, but a lather set up by Antichrist whereby to climb over the fold. 3. The shepherd is by his office to feed and govern the flock, as Mr III. B: himself testifieth from this scripture. But as seeding, that is, 〈◊〉. ●92. reaching, or preaching unto the people (as is his meaning) is no part of the parish Priests duty, but a casual, and super-erogarory work: so are they altogether stripped of government; and therefore no true shepherds of Christ's flocks. Lastly, the good shepherd seeing danger towards the sheep▪ will FOUR rather give his life then ●lee; where on the contrary, the hireling s●ing the wolf coming, fleeth, because he is an hireling. ver. 11. 12. 13. whereupon it followeth, that the ministers Mr B. chiefly means, leaving their flocks upon the Bishop's ungodly suspensions, and deprivations, as upon the ba●king of a wolf, do evidently proclaim to all the world, that they are no good shepherds, but hirelings. And so far am I persuaded of hundreds amongst them, that, I doubt not, but if they thought in their hearts, they were by Christ's appointment set in their charges, and by him commanded there to minister, they would never so foully, as they do, forsake their flocks upon the suspension, or deprivation of a profane prelate, or chancellor, for refusing conformity or subscription, to their popish devises. When DAVID was in his greatest trials, and that his enemies laboured most, either to frustrate, or deprive him of his kingdom, and so to turn his glory into shame, his comfort was, that God had * Psal. 2. ●. & 4. 2. 3. set him as his King upon Zion, the mountain of his holiness: and that the Lord had chosen, or separated him unto himself. Likewise when jakob was in that great both danger, and fear of his brother Esau, the thing that sustained him, was, that †‘ Gen. 32. 9 God had said unto him, return unto thy country, and to thy father's kindred, & I will do the good. And as it was with these two, so is it with all the servants of God both in their general, & special callings. When they have assurance by the word, and spirit of God, that he is the author of their calling, then do they with patience, and comfort of the H. Ghost suffer such trials, and afflictions, as are incident thereunto: where on the contrary, wanting thi● assurance, they are soon discouraged even in the good things they do, if persecutions do arise; and being without the Lords calling, no marvel though they want his comfort. The Apostle Paul advertiseth the “ Act. 20. 27. 28. 29. Elders of Ephesus, that they are made overseers or Bishops, of the flock, by the H. Ghost, and thereupon takes occasion to exhort them to all vigilancy, & faithfulness against the invasion of such wolves, a● should enter in to devour the flock. Now if those men of whom I speak, be persuaded that they at placed in their charges by the H. Ghost, how do they forsake them not being by him displaced, or do they think the H. Ghost lisplaceth them for their well-doing, or for their refusing to do evil, as to sub●ctibe, conform, and the like? They speak of the seal of their Ministry, and of their inward calling, and of the people's acceptation, and of many things more, very plausible to the multitude; but in the day of their trial, it appears, what small comfort they have in all these: and as is their coming in, so is their going out: since they entered not in by the door, no mervayl though they suffer themselves to be thrust out by the window, or to be tumbled over the wall, or otherwise to be discharged upon some small, and sleighty occasion. Mr B. But * suppose (say you) a false entrance, yet that no more disanulls pag. 142. 1. book. the ministry, then doth a faulty entrance to marriage, disannul that ordinance between two conjoined to be lawful man, and wife. But first, I deny your very office of ministry in itself to be a Answ. spiritual ordinance of God, as is marriage a civil ordinance. 2. If one of these two persons were uncapable of marriage, there would follow a nullity: and so is it with you, where your parish assemblies are all of them uncapable of the ministry of Christ, and the ministrations thereof. 3. If this marriage were made without the free consent, and choice of the one party, were it not to be disannulled? and this is your case, if you consider it, where the minister is put upon the people, without their free choice, and election. Lastly, if two persons were married with this condition, that they should leave one another upon the imperious command of some great man, for some small, and sleighty matter, or other; were this true, and lawful marriage? And is not this the estate of your Ministers, and people under their imperious Lords the Prelates? by whom they are in continual danger of divorce, for want of canonical conformity in some trivial, and trifling ceremony. Thus much of this similitude, as also of this matter. That which comes next into consideration, is the point of succession: wherein, in the first place, answer must be given to a demand made by M. B. in his † pag. 311. 2. book: in which many others also think there is much weight: and that is, why we hold, and reteyn the baptism received by succession, and not the Ministry? Mr B. For answer unto him I would know of him, whether the Church I. of England do still, (or did at the first) reteyn the ministry of Answ. the Church of Rome, or no? If he say it doth, than I would entreat him, and others not to take it ill, if we call and account them Priests; for such are the Romish Ministers. 2. How can the Church of England forsake the Church of Rome, and reteyn the Ministry which is in the Church, as in the subject? especially if the Ministry make the Church, as Mr Bernard affirms: for then a true Ministry must needs make a true Church: and communion with the Ministry draws on necessarily communion with the Church. But if on the contrary he affirm, that the Church of England doth renounce the Ministry or priesthood of the Church of Rome; then I return his demand upon himself, and ask him, why it reteyns the Baptism of Rome? and so leave him to himself for answer. 2. The Baptism both in England, and Rome, is in the essential causes of it, the matter, water, the form, baptizing into the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, Christ's baptism, and ordinance, though in the administration it be Antichrists devise: but for the Ministry either in Rome, or England it is otherwise. The Ministry of Christ doth summarily, and in the substance of it, consist in the “ Act. 20. 28. 1 Pet. 5. 1. 2. feeding of the flock, that is, in providing food for the flock, and in guiding and ordering the same accordingly; in a word, in preaching, and government, 1 Tim. 5. 17. Put what is this to the priesthood of England, (to let pass that of Rome) unto which preaching is not necessarily annexed, nor government so much as permitted? To swear Canonical obedience, subscribe, conform, read the service book, celebrate marriage, Church women, and bury the dead in form, & order, are essential & substantial parts, or properties of the Ministry there, in the present both practice, and constitution. The vessels of gold, and silver, which were taken out of the temple in the captivity, and carried to Babylon, and there profaned, might notwithstanding (being sanctified from their profanation there) be lawfully carried back to jerusalem and set up in the temple newly built, and employed, as in former times to God's service: but had these vessels been broken in pieces in Bab●lon, and there (being mingled with brass, and iron, & such b●se metal) been cast in another mould, they could not th●n have obtained th●● former place in the temple, nor there have been 〈…〉 d for the holy ministration. Now such is the difference between the Baptism, and Ministry, both in the Romish, and English Church. To former, as a vessel of the Lords house, may with the Lords people be brought back from Babylon spiritual to the new jerusalem and there may (being sanctified by repentance) serve, and be of 〈…〉 to all the ends and purposes for which God hath appointed it. But for the Ministry, or priesthood, either in the one, or other, it is in itself no vessel of the lords house; it is neither made of the metal, which the Lord hath appointed, nor cast in his mould. It is essentially degenerated from that office of Pastourship which Christ the Lord hath set in his house for the feeding of the flock by teaching, and government, as hath been formerly showed: and is in the true natural, & canonical institution of it a very devised patchery, & compound, like “ Dan. 2. 30. 32. 33. the image, which the King of Babylon saw in his dream; save that little, or nothing of it is gold, or silver, but all brass, iron, & clay, & the like base metal, & stuff: fitting right well both in the administration of it unto the people, and in the subordination unto the people, and in the subordination unto the Prelacy, for the exaltation of the man of sin, which hath for that very purpose devised it, and placed it in the Church for his service: that by it, as by an vnderst●p he might climb up, & advance himself into the throne of iniquity, where he sits exalted III. above all, that is called God. 3. The Ministers of the Church now do succeed the * Esa. 66. 21. jer. 33. 18, 21. Priests, and Levites under the law, as † Col 2. 11. 12. baptism also comes in the place of circumcision. Now we read in the scriptures, that such of the ten tribes, as were in jeroboams idolatrous schism, and apostasy, (thereby as a branch from the root, cutting off themselves actually from the only true Church of God, which was radically at 2 Chro. 30. 11. 18. 2●. jerusalem, where the Lord had founded his temple, appointed his sacrifices, and promised his presence) that such of them, I sa●, as returned to the Lord by repentance, and joined themselves unto the true Church, were, by virtue of the circumcision received in that their apostasy, wherein they had no ●i●le to * Rom. 4. 11. the seal of the forgiveness of sins (which circumcision was) admitted into the temple, Ezech. 44. 7. Act. 21. 18. into which, no m●n uncircumcised might enter, and to the participation of the Passeover, † Exod. 12. 48. whereof none uncircumsed person might eat. But that any person, should by virtue of his office of priesthood received in that, or the like apostasy, have entered into the Lord, sanctuary, there to have done the Priests office upon any repentance whatsoever, had been an intolerable usurpation, & sacrilegious 2 King. 23. 9 Ezech. 44. 10. 11. 12. 13. invasion of the holy things of God: yea the sons of Aaron themselves, unto whom the priesthood did of right apperteyn, if they thus went astray from the Lord after idols, were for ever debarred from doing the Priests office, notwithstanding any repentance they could make: and were to bear, all their lives long, their iniquity, and shame. Now by that which hath been spoken of circumcision, and the priesthood under the law, the reader may easily observe the difference betwixt Baptism, and the Ministry now. The particular application for brevity's sake I forbear. 4. and lastly, the difference betwixt Baptism, and the Ministry FOUR is exceeding great, in respect of that special, and most necessary relation, which the MINISTRY above Baptism hath unto the CHURCH: whether we respect the entrance into it, or continuance in it. We do read in the scriptures, that holy men, called thereunto of GOD might lawfully administer BAPTISM unto fit persons without the consent, or cognition of the Church; as † Act. 8. 12. 38. ch. 9 18. & 10. 47 48. & 16. 15. 33. PHILIP did the SAMARITANS, and the EUNUCH, ANANIAS SAUL, PETER CORNELIUS, PAUL LYDIA, and the JAILOR: but now for the appointing of Ministers without the Church's consent, and choice, that did they not, as the scriptures testify, & M. B. himself confesseth. And as the entrance of ordinary officers (of which we speak) doth necessarily praesuppose a Church, by whose election, they are to enter, so doth their continuance require a Church, in which, as in a subject, they must subsist, & to which they must minister. For since the † 1 Tim. 3. 1 o●●i●● of a Bishop is a work, a man is no longer a Bb. them he worketh. It is not with the office of ministry, as it is with the order of knighthood, that once a Minister ever a Minister. The Popish Character is a mere fiction, brought in for the confirmation of the sacrament of orders as they call it. Whensoever the scriptures do mention “ Act. 14. 23. & 15. 2. 4. 22. & 20 17. 28. 1. Cor. 12. 28. Elders, or Bishops either in respect of their calling, or ministration, they still speak of them, as in or of such, and such particular Churches, and none otherwise. And to imagine an Elder or Bishop without a Church, is to imagine a Constable without a parish or hundred; a Mayor or Alderman without a Corporation, or a public officer without some public person, or society, whose officer he is. Hereupon also Phil. 1. 1. T●●. 1 5. 1. Pet. 5. 1. 2 it followeth, that if the Church be dissolved by death, apostasy or otherwise, the Minister ceaseth to be a Minister, because the Church ceaseth; in relation unto which (under Christ) his Ministry consisteth: but on the contrary, a baptised person remains still baptised though the whole Church, yea all the Churches of the world be dissolved, so long as God, & his Christ remain the same, into whose name he hath been baptised. And of the same consideration is it, that a Minister may (for some scandalous sin) be degraded, and deposed from his Ministry, as I have formerly showed, & as all Churches practise: and so that, which was formerly given him, is taken from him, and he no more a Minister, than he was before his caling: yea if he remain obstinate in his sin, he is to be excommunicated, & so ceasing to be a member, he must needs cease to be a Minister of the Church. But neither do the scriptures mention, neither did any Church ever attempt the un-baptizing of a baptised person. And as a man may justly be deposed from his Ministry, so may he in cases lawfully depose himself, and lay it down: as if by the hand of God, he be utterly disabled from ministering, as it may come to pass, & oft times doth: but for a man to lay down his baptism for any such infirmity, were impious, as it were sacrilegious for the Church to deprive him thereof. To these considerations I might also add, that if a man forfeit his Ministry, and so be deprived of it, either by deposition, or excommunication, and be afterwards upon his repentance judged capable of it, he must have a new calling, or a confirmation at the least, answerable unto a calling: so must it also be with him, that is translated from an inferior office to a superior; but in baptism there may be no such changing, or repetition. The practice were heretical. Add unto these things, that as a man once baptised is always baptised, so is he in all places, and Churches where he comes (as a baptised person) to enjoy the common benefits of his baptism, & to discharge the common duties, which depend upon it. But a Pastor is not a Pastor in every Church, where he comes upon occasion, neither can he require in any other Church, saving that one, over which the H: Ghost hath set him, that obedience, maintenance, and other respect, which is due to the officers from the people; neither stands he charged with that Ministry, and service, which is due to the people from the Officers: & if you Mr B. say otherwise, you make every Pastor a Pope, or universal Bishop. “ Col. 4. 12. Epaphras, though he were at Rome, was one of them (that is a Minister) of Colossus: so were * Act. 20. 17. 28. the Elders of Ephesus, though they were at Miletum, the Elders of Ephesus only, but of none other Church; and charged to feed the flock over which the holy Ghost had set them, but none other; for over none other had the holy Ghost set them. And as a Mayor out of his Corporation, a Sheriff out of his County, a Constable out of his Parish, or Hundred, is no Mayor, Sheriff, or Constable, (but in relation to that particular body of which he is) neither can he perform any proper act of his office without usurpation; so neither is a Bishop, or Elder, a Church Officer, save in his own particular Church, and charge, and in relation unto it, neither can he without ambitious usurpation perform any proper work of his Office, or Ministèry, save in that Church by, and to which, in his ministration, he is designed. And thus much to show the difference betwixt that relative ordinance of the Ministry, and that personal ordinance of Baptism in the Church; as also to prove, that we do lawfully, and with good warrant disclaim, and renounce the Ministry received in Rome, & England, notwithstanding we reteyn the Baptism received both in the one, and the other. To which also, I could add (if there were need, or use) both the judgement of the learned at home, & abroad, and the practice of the reformed Churches, where we live, for the continuing of the Baptism in Rome received, but no more of the Mass priests for Ministers, then of the Mass itself, for which they were ordained. But it is more than time I come to the main controversy about succession; which might be laid down summarily in these words: whether the reformed Churches were bound to submit (notwithstanding their separation from Rome) unto such ministers only, as were ordained by the Pope, and his Bishops: but for the better clearing of things I will enlarge my speech to these three distinct considerations. First, whether the Ministry be before the Church, or no. 2. Whether the delegated power of Christ for the use of the holy things of God be given primarily, and immediately to the Church, or to the Ministers? 3. Whether the Lord have so linked the Ministry in the chain of succession, that no Minister can be truly called, and ordained, or appointed without a precedent Minister. Touching the first of these Mr Ber: affirmeth as in his † pag. ●●. former book: that the Officers make the Church, and give denomination unto it: so expressly in his * pag. 18●. 2. book, that the Ministry is before the Church. And noting in the same place a two fold raising up of the Ministry: the first to beget a Church: the second, when the Church is gathered; he puts the Ministers in both before the Ch: in the former, absolutely, in the latter, in respect of their Office, and ordination by succession from the first: In which discourse he intermingleth sundry things, frivolous, unsound, and contradictory. Now for the first entry, I desire the reader to observe with me that the question betwixt Mr Bernard and me is about ordinary Ministers, or officers of the Church, such as were the first Ministers of the reformed Churches, and as Mr B: and I pretend ourselves to be: and not about extraordinary Ministers, extraordinarily, miraculously, or immediately, raised up as were Adam, and the Apostles by God, and Christ: whom he produceth for examples. Admit the one sort (being called immediately, and miraculously) may be before the Church: yet cannot the other, which must be called by men, and those either the Church, or members of the Church at the least. Besides, the word Minister extends itself not only unto Officers ordinary, and extraordinary, but even to any outward means, whether person or thing, by which the revealed will of God is manifested, and made known unto men for their instruction, and conversion. Yea it reacheth even to God himself: & so far Mr B. stretcheth it, where he makes * First book pag. 144. God the first preacher Gen. 2. 3. As though there were a controversy between him, and me, whither God, or the Church were first. I see not but by the same reason he might avouch, that the Ministers of the Church could not all die, or be deceived, because God is free from these infirmities. It is true which Mr B. saith, that the word is before the Church, as the seed, which begetteth it, and so is that which brings it, yea whither it be person, or thing, which may also be called a Minister, and be said to be sent of God, as it is an instrument to convey, and means to minister the knowledge of the same word, & will of God unto any. So if any private man, or woman should be a means to publish, or make known the word of God to a company of Turks, jews, or other Idolaters, he or she might truly be said to be their Minister, and the Lords Ambassador unto them, as you speak. Yea if they came to this knowledge by reading the Bible, or other godly book, that book or bible, as it served to minister the knowledge of Gods will in his word might truly in a general sense be accounted as a Minister unto them. But what were all this to a Church-officer, about whom our question is? These things Mr B. shuffles together, but the wise reader must distinguish them, & so doing, he shall easily discover his trisling. The particulars follow. And first he affirmeth, that God made Adam Mr B. a Minister, to whom he gave a wife to begin the Church, and as Adam was before his wife, so is the Ministry at the first before the Church. If Adam's wife began the Church, then is your main foundation Answ. overthrown; namely that the ministers make, and denominate the Church, except you will say that Eve was a Minister. Secondly it is not true you say, that God made Adam a Minister, before Eve was created. In the same place you make (and truly) a Minister, and Ambassador which brings the word all one: & unto whom could Adam either minister the word, or be an Ambassador to bring it before Eve was form? There was nothing but bruit beasts, and senseless trees, and to them I suppose he brought it not. The truth is, Adam and Eve were the Ch. not by his, but by her creation, which made a company, or society: & thus we are in the first place to consider of them, and of Adam as a teacher in the second place; the special calling here, and ever, following after, and upon the general. Of the same force with your first proof is your 2. which you Mr B. take from Ephes. 4. 11. 12. where it is said, God gave some not only to confirm the Church, but to gather the Saints to make a Church. To let pass your boldness with the words, I except against your Answ. exposition, & application of them. The word gathering upon which you insist, is in some books turned repairing, and is the same in the Greek with that which is restoring, Gal. 6. 1. of which I have spoken formerly. Again, Paul in that place speaks not only of Apostles, & other Ministers of the first raising up: for the begetting of Churches: but of Pastors, and Teachers which were taken out of the Church, and of the 2. raising for the feeding of the flock. You will not deny but the Apostles and brethren at jerusalem were a Church of God, Act. 1. 15. 16. when as yet no Pastors or Teachers were appointed in it: and how then can your doctrine stand, that the Ministers spoken of Ephe. 4. 11. 12. (amongst which were Pastors and Teachers) were before the Church, out of which they were taken, and raised up of God to beget a Church? Yea it is evident that the very office of Pastor was not then heard of in the Church; whereby the falsity of your other affirmation is discovered, to wit, that the Office of such Ministers as are of the second raising, & which are taken out of the Church, is before the Church. Thirdly, the Apostles themselves (howsoever extraordinary officers immediately called, and sent forth to beget other Churches both of jews, and Gentiles) were Christians before they were Apostles, and members of the Church before they were Officers. And the scriptures do expressly testify, that † ● Cor. ●●. 28. God ordained, or set in the Church Apostles, amongst other Officers: and this their setting in the Church doth necessarily praesuppose a Church, wherein they were set, as the setting of a candle in a candlestick, praesupposeth a candlestick: as in deed the Church is the * Rev 1. 2. Math. 5. 14 15. Candlestick, & the officers the candles, lights, and stars, which are set in it. Lastly, it is a senseless affirmation you make, that a man sent to win people is a minister to the hidden number, not yet called out, which Mr B. are also his flock potentially though not actually. Answ. The “ joh. 10. 3 pag. 302. scriptures, and you accordingly in another place, make it a property of a good Minister to call his own sheep by name, that is, as you expound it, to take notice of his people & of their growth in religion etc. & now here, you will have a minister of the hidden number whereof he can take no notice at all: nor can tell whether or no, he shall find one sheep amongst them. Besides you commit a Logical error in raising an actual Minister from the relation he hath unto a flock potentially: you may as truly affirm, that a single man towards marriage is an husband, and a father, because he may have wife, and children. Any man, that upon a just calling, or occasion, opens▪ and makes known the Gospel of salvation unto a company of Turks, or Pagans, may in that general sense be called the Lords Minister sent unto them: but a Church Officer, of whom our question is, till he have by his Ministry called, and separated them unto the Lord, and be by their election, called, and separated to his office, can he neither be, nor be called. One thing more you add, which is, that Ministers may be the Mr B. Church, as they are Christians, and that they are Ministers in respect of an office bestowed upon them in their state of Christianity: wherein you Answ. speak (and that truly) sufficient to overthrow not only your particular error in this place, but well nigh your whole writing. For thereupon it followeth, First that the Church is before the Ministry, because men are a Church as they are Christians, & Christians, before they be Ministers. 2. That Ministers make not the Church but become such by an office bestowed upon them in their state of Christianity, that is, in their Church state. Thirdly, that the Christian brethren though not in office are part of the Church, Math. 18. since even the officers themselves are acknowledged the Church, or of the Church, as they are Christians. I come now unto the 2. consideration, and do affirm against Mr Ber. that the delegated, and communicated power of Christ is given primarily, and immediately to the Church, and not to the officers. This point I have formerly handled at large, under two general heads opened in the former part of my † pag. 125. 126. etc. book, unto which I do entreat the reader to look back, yet will I for further satisfaction I. briefly annex a few things. First, because * Rom. 3. 2. & 9 4. E. phe. 2. 12. unto the jews were of credit committed the Oracles of God, unto whom also did the covenants apperteyn, and all the privileges of them, as to the common wealth of Israel. 1 Cor. 3. 22 23. 2. Because the Ministers themselves are given to the Church, & the Churches immediately, as the Church is Christ's, & Christ Gods. II. And if this holy thing the Ministry be the Churches immediately, than other things also as well as it, in respect of right, and possession, though she use the service of the Ministers ordinarily for the dispensation, & execution of them. It is not denied, but that the officers in such works, as they perform unto the Chain the name of the Lord, as ofdoctrine, exhortation, admonition, & the like, stand in a more immediate relation unto the Lord, than the Church doth: but it must also be remembered, that this no more advanceth the order of their Office above the order of the body, than it doth one private bother, performing the same work orderly in the exercise of prophesying, or otherwise. 3. The Officers are to dispense, and execute the holy things III. of God, as the Rom. 15. 31. 1 Cor. 4. 1. 2 Cor. 4. 5. Col. 1. 24. 25. servants, & Ministers of Christ, & his Church: and whatsoever they do in their office, they do it, as the servants, and ministers both of Christ and of the Church. Now common sense teacheth men, that, what power, or authority soever the servants, or Ministers of others have, or use in their places, that authority and power, they have first, whose servants and ministers they are: and that therefore the holy things of God are primarily, and immediately the Churches under Christ, and in the last place the Officers, as the servants of Christ, and his Church, for execution, in the order, which Christ hath left. The last, & greatest question now comes into handling▪ namely whether Ministers may be made by such as are no Ministers. For this phrase of making Ministers Mr B. affects much, belike with reference special to the Ministers of England, and Rome, who are fitly said to be made by the Bishops, & to be the workmanship of their hands. Mr Ber. vehemently urgeth the negative part, namely, that no Minister may be made but by a minister: & tying, as he doth the Ch: to the Ministry, & the Ministry to succession, there is cause he should. For if the chair of succession should break, both the Ch: & Ministry of England must fall to the ground. The only Argument he brings for his purpose, is an historical narration (as he speaks) from time to time, without any one instance to the contrary: & the constant practice of the Church of God from the days Mr B. of Adam hitherto. 2. book. 186 ● Book. 144 Answ. I desire the Reader in the first place to take knowledge from me, that I deny not, but confess, that the Churches of God, more particularly, and the Churches of the new testament continuing, and abiding in that state, † Col. 2. 5. ●ayth, & order, wherein they were set, & established by the Lord in the hands of his servants the Apostles, & Evangelists, were to receive their ministers constantly by succession, after a sort, namely so far, as that all succeeding Ministers were to be ordained by Ministers, and no otherwise. But would any man, save either a marked servant of the Pope, or one that cared not what he wrote for some present seeming-advantage, argue as this man doth, from the estate of the Churches of Christ, and in particular of the Church at Rome, in Peter, and Paul's time, to the estate, wherein now it is, or was an hundred years since, in which estate we are to consider of it? But of this more hereafter. The historical narration before spoken of, M B. divides into 4. times or ages: the first whereof is from the beginning of the world, till the giving of the law: the 2. from the law, till Christ's coming: the 3. from Christ, till the end of the history of the new testament: p. 184. 185. the 4, and last from that time, hitherto. Let us consider of his instances. And first (saith he) God at the Mr B. world's beginning, ordained Adam in his place; and till the law did raise up extraordinary Teachers: whom he also nameth in his 2. book, as Henoh, Noah, Abraham, Isaak, jakob, joseph, Lev● and the rest. As it is true, that all Ministers are both to be called, and ordained Answ. of God, and ordinary Ministers to be called by the Church, and ordained by the Church-officers if there be any in that Ch: by, and to which the latter are called, so neither doth the age wherein you first instance, draw any such strait line of succession, or conclude any such necessity of ordination by precedent officers, as you praetend. And that you may more clearly see this, you must take notice of your error, in affirming, that God raised up extraordinary Teachers till the law. The first born in the families were the ordinary Teachers, ordinarily succeeding, till the Levites were appointed: the office of priesthood being annexed to their birthright. In which respect it was, that God told Cain “ Gen. 4. 7. his brother's desire should be unto him, and that he should rule over him. For which purpose see also Gen. 21. 9 & 25. 31. 32. 33. 34. & 49. 4. with Deut. 33. 8. Add unto this also, that the Lord would have † Exo. 12. 2 Ch. 19 22. every first born amongst the childs of Israel consecrated unto him: that the Priests, or, (as it is better turned) the administers of the holy things which come near to the Lord, should sanctify themselves: and that ‘* Ch. 24. 5 Moses sent the young men of the children of Israel to offer burnt offerings, and sacrifices unto the Lord. But most evidently doth this appear in that * Num. 3. 12. 13. & 8 15. 16. etc. With Deu. 33. 10. the Levites were appointed to teach the people, and to offer sacrifices, and to do the service of the children of Israel in the tabernacle of the congregation, for the first born, that openeth the matrice among the children of Israel. And as the first born were the ordinary Teachers successively, before the law, in whose stead the Levites afterwards were appointed; so was this order in sundry persons, and upon sundry occasions, broken, and interrupted. As in † Gen. 4. 8. 12. 14. 16. CAIN, for his murder: in “ Ch. 11. 31 with▪ josh. 24. 2. 15. TERAH for his Idolatry: in ‘؛‘ Ch. 21. 9 14. ISHMAEL for his mocking: & in * Ch. 25. 31 32. 33. 34. Heb. 12. 16 Gen. 27. 27 ESAV for his profaneness. To descend lower. When the order of succession in the priesthood was so far established, as that it did divolve, by the word of God, from the parents upon the children, as by an haereditary right, yet than we see, it was sometimes for the sins of men, broken off, and interrupted. Take for instance Eli, and his house. † 1 Sam. 2. 30. 31. The Lord God ●f Israel had said, that his house, & the house of his father should walk before him for ever: but now (the L: saith) is shall not be; for them that honour me, I will honour, and they that despise me, shallbe despised. Behold the days shall come, that I will cut off the arm of thy father's house, etc. then he adds, and I will stir me up a faithful Priest, that shall do according to mine heart, and according to my mind, etc. which was also especially accomplished in Salomon's days, when ver. 35. the priesthood was translated from Abiathar to Zadock. 1 King. 2. 35. To the same purpose tends that which the Prophets, Ezechiel & Hose threaten, and denounce, against other Priests of Israel, for their idolatry and other iniquities. * Ezec. 44. 10. 13. The Levites, (saith the Lord) which went back from me, when Israel went astray, shall bear their iniquity: and they shall not come near uno me to do the office of the Priest unto me, etc. And again by Hose: †‘ Hos. 4. 6 7. because thou hast refused knowledge, I will also refuse thee, that thou shalt be no Priest to me: and seeing thou hast forgotten the Law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. I will change their glory into shame. For the shutting up of this point; the Lord jesus himself coming to repair the decayed places of Zion, & to enlarge the walls of jerusalem, did not choose his Apostles out of the nuber of the Priests, & other ordinary Teachers, but else where They in deed supposed (as the Prelates, & Priests now do) that the Lord could neither propagate, nor maintain his Church but by them, because they were † Math. 3. 9 the children of Abraham: but john Baptist tells them, & all other with than, that hang upon the same, or like line of personal succession, which they did, that except they prevent the Lords wrath, and bring forth fruits worthy amendment of life, he will with the axe of his wrath hew them down, & cast them as unfruitful trees into the fire: raising up unto Abraham seed, and children of the very stones. If now the Lord have thus ever and anon, from the beginning of the world, changed the course, and current of succession, for these sins, namely, murder, idolatry, persecution, profaneness, and the like; is it possible that the stream should still run, by the Lord's appointment, without stop, or change, for so many hundred years, in the Romish Church, where these, and all other sins, and iniquities have abounded? and where they all, as so many members compact together, make the man of sum complete? Is the Lord l●s●● zealous now a days, then in times passed of the honour of his name, and ordinances? Or hath S. Peter procured some Charter of impunity for his successors the Popes of Rome, what impieties soever they have fallen, or can fall into? Or doth this man think by any plea he can make for them to hold them in possession of that right which they have so notoriously forfeited so many ways, and for so many years, and whereof the word of God hath so evidently disseyzed them? For conclusion of this particular, the Apostle Paul foretelling the general * 2 Thes. 2. 3. 4. apostasy of that man of sin, the child of perdition, advancing himself above all that is called God, or is worshipped, addeth that the Lord will destroy him with the spirit of his mouth. In which words we are to observe, first, the vers. 8. universality of the apostasy, advancing itself above all that is called God; and secondly, the manner of restoration of the Church, which is to be by the Lord, & the spirit of his mouth, where if it were to be by the ministers of antichrist's making, or the Pope's calling, the● should the man of sin consume himself. join with this scripture another of the same nature, wherein the H: Ghost, speaking by the mouth of john, of the same general apostasy, foretells, how God would raise up his “ Rev: 11. 3. 7. two witnesses, which should prophecy against the beast, which came out of the bottomless pit, and against all the abominations of Antichrist: whereas, by the doctrine of succession, no witnesses should be raised up against Antichrist but by himself. Now by these scriptures, & instances it appears, that the stream of succession hath not run so currently from the days of Adam hitherto, as Mr B: praetendeth, but that it hath sundry times been stopped, and turned by, & that most specially in the Romish apostasy. The thing I purpose in the next place is, to prosecute certain Arguments of Mr Smythes, and the rather because himself hath in a measure forsaken this truth with others (adding also some others unto them) to prove, that the ministry (and so other▪ the holy things of God,) is not tied by Christ to the succession of office, or order, but of faith. The Arguments I will take up as Mr Bernard together with their answers lays them down in his 2. book. Pag: 186. 187. 188 etc. Of the first Argument, I have spoken in another place. The 2. is, that if Christ's ministerial power be by succession, to the Pope, Bishops, or Praesbytery, than the Ministry of Rome is a true Ministry▪ Mr Bern: answer is, that he means true succession, which is both personal, and hath with it a true office, true doctrine, true sacraments, and prayer, about which Christ's true ministers are exercised: but for the Romish Ministry it is idolatry, and superstition, and the men appointed there to ordained sacrificing Priests. This answer of yours Mr B. puts me in mind of a practice of children, who when they have a long while busied themselves in drawing the best forms, and figures they can in dust, and ashes, do at the last with one dash of their hand deface all, & undo, what they have formerly done. And that this childish dealing you use, no reader that considers the question in hand, can be ignorant of. The question then between him, & me, is not of such a succession personal, as hath joined with it succession in a true office, true doctrine, true sacraments, & prayer, wherein the minister is in any measure faithfully exercised: but generally, whether succession of persons be of such absolute necessity, as that no minister can in any case be made but by a minister, & more specially, whither the first ministers of the reformed Ch:, or of such, as come out of the confusion of Antichrist, must of necessity be ordained by the Pope, & his Bishops, or minister by virtue of their ordination so received. And that this succession by, & from the Romish ministry, is that Mr Ber: pleads for, his writings manifest: as first, that, as in all the Apostles time the Ministry 2. ●ok op●g 185. 186. was by succession; ministers, as it were, begetting Ministers by ordination, so after their time the like succession hath been kept from time to time, Bishop after Bishop, and Ministers ordained by them: which the Catalogue of them, & stories of times, on which we must rely, where the script: cease to make further relation, do witness: for the continuation of which succession to the world's end, he allegeth Math. 28. 20. odiously perverting to the Pope, and his shavelings, the promise, which Christ there made, to be with his Apostles, & other faithful ministers, teaching the things, which he had commanded, and dispensing his other ordinances accordingly. Answerable unto which, is his other saying (in which, his terms, and meaning do well suit) that Churchmen ever ordained Ministers, & not the lay people. To this also let his inference be added in another place pag. 311. that, if we receive, and hold our baptism from Rome, why not our ordination also? And in his former book Pag: 144. most clearly condemning our Ministers for being made by such, as are no Ministers: contrary to the constant practice of the Church of God from the days of Adam hitherto. And again, that this custom of ordaining Ministers did continue in the times following the Apostles times (as before it had done) in all the Churches of Christendom, as ecclesiastical writers do make mention: and so through pure, & impure Churches▪ and that, God in the last reformation of his Church, would not break this order; but choose men, who were Bishops ordained even in the Popish Church, so that they might ordain fit persons afterwards. And this he tells the Reader he speaks of the Church of England, as in deed he may well; for other Ch: departed from Rome, would be loath to join in his plea. And lastly, he chargeth us with great presumption, for daring to break this order of God, continued five thousand, and six hundred years. Now what can be more vain? The very point which MR. BERNARD is to prove, and from which he brings his historical narration from Adam to this day, is, that God hath continued the course of succession in the Romish Ministry, and that from, and by it successively, the Ministry in England hath been, and is at this day, continued. And yet in his answer to Mr Smyth, he is driven to affirm, that he hath no reference at all to the Romish Ministry, which he accounts Idolatry, and superstition: but means such a personal succession, as hath joined with it a true office, true doctrine, and the like. He will have succession continued from the days of Adam hitherto; and this to have been the order of God for five thousand, and six hundred years: and that he chose Bishops ordained in the Popish Church, to ordain fit persons in the Church of England: and yet Mr Smith is to know he speaks not at all of the succession in the Romish Ministry, which is idolatry, and superstition. Now that the more simple reader may not lose himself in this man's maze, and that he may the better know the state of the question, and judge of it, I will here interpose some few things, touching succession and ordination accordingly. First then we acknowledge, that in the right and orderly state of things, no Ministers are to be ordained, but by Ministers, the latter by the former in the Churches, where they are, and over which the holy Ghost hath set them. And so the Apostles being general, and extraordinary men (unto whom the Evangelists also were joined for assistance to “ ● Cor: 3▪ 6. Tit: 1. 5. water where they planted, and to finish the works, by them begun) as they had † ● Cor: ●. 28. Act: 15 36. 1 Cor. 4. 17. the care of all the Churches committed unto them, and were charged with them, so were they also to * Act. 14. 23. Tit. 1. 5 ordain the Elders and Bishops in them, and the people bound to wait their coming for that purpose, as Mr Ber. truly affirmeth: as were also these Bishops, or Elders to ordain others in the Churches over which they were set, & so others after them in the order appointed by Christ in his Apostles; with whom also he promised to be always till the world's end, in this and the like their holy ministrations. But is the consequence good, that, because Math. 28. 20. the Apostles and Evangelists were to ordain Elders in the Churches by Commission from Christ, and that the people converted from Indaism, or Paganism, were to wait till they came to ordain them their ministers, therefore the Pope, and Prelates under him have commission from Christ to ordain his priests and that the people converted from Antichristianism are to wait 〈◊〉 they come to ordain them their Ministers, or till they send them such as they have always in store ordained to their hands? or that because the Apostles, and Evangelists had Christ's promise to be with them always, that therefore the Pope, Cardinals, Lord Bishops, and Lord Suffragans have interest in the same promise. It might aswell be concluded, that as the Lords people were bound to obey, and submit unto the former in their times, so are they now to submit unto, and obey the Pope, and his underlings. And yet is this the very mark Mr Bernard aims at in his long drawn historical narration: this is the force of his argument, and his manner of arguing. If this line hold from Peter to the Pope, and from the Pope to his clergy, and so successively to the Ministry of England, than it stands upright; if it break, then doth the ministry of England▪ (which as Mr Bernard truly, & honestly confesseth is thus raised) fall flat to the ground: as indeed it doth according to the foretelling of the Angel, * Rev. 14. ●. it is fallen, it is fallen, Babylon the great City. But here it willbe demanded of me, how the Lords people coming out of Babylon, separating from Rome, are to obtain, and enjoy Ministers. Surely one of these three ways. Either by the extaordinary, immediate, or miraculous designation of God; or by succession; or by the same people's choice, or appointment, to which they are to minister. To expect ministers by the first means were fancy▪ and presumption: so that by one of the two other ways they must come necessarily. The power of the holy things of God, & so specially of erecting the minstery, is either tied to the order of office, & so to the order of to the Popeship, & Praelacy under it, or else to the faith of the people of God forsaking Babylon, & joining together in the covenant of Abraham, & fellowship of the gospel. The former of these though Mr B: be driven to plead it in the proof of succession, yet in the defence of it, he is forced to disclaim, & disavow: yielding the Romish Ministry to be Idolatry, and superstition, and that he speaks of such a succession, as requires with it a true office, true doctrine, true sacraments, and prayer. pag. 188. and again that he means by succession a continuance of God's ordinance by persons elected thereto from time to time, being of spiritual kindred by the faith of doctrine, by which the ordinance is upheld, and true succession maintained. pag 190. With which grant of his I might rest, as indeed wherein he yieldeth the whole cause, and cuts off, as it were, with his own hands, the cord of true succession in the Ch: of Rome; making it to fail, when the truth of doctrine, and of election failed in the same Ch:. But because it is so common a thing with him, to say, and unsay▪ and to say again the same things, either forgetting himself, or thinking others forgets, or because he would say something to every thing, though never so contrary both to the truth, and himself in another place, I will press Mr Smythes other Arguments. The third of which is, that by the doctrine of succession men are bound absolutely to sin, in joining to the sins of the Minister. This is saith Mr B: to take unproved a principle of Brownism to overthrow a truth, namely, that a man cannot receive the holy things of God, but he must needs sin with others. And is it so indeed? Do not the scriptures every where teach men to * Rome 16 17. Gal: 1. ●. 1 Tim: 6. 3. 4. 5. Tit: 3. 10 11. avoid, reject, and hold accursed, false teachers, haeretiques, and idolaters? and † 1 Tim: 5. 18. 2 Ioh: 10. 11. Rev 1●. 4. not to partake in the sin of others, either by practising them, or giving consent, or countenance unto them? Whereupon it followeth, that the doctrine, which binds the Ministry, and other holy things of God unto succession, and thereby to partake with haeretiques, and false teachers, or at least with such in their ministration, as have received the power, and authority by which they minister from the Pope, and his Praelacy, bynds men to sin in joining with the sins of the Ministers. Of the jewish Church & priesthood (which Mr Ber●here objects) I have spoken formerly, and do now add, that, as no man is now so tied to any Church, or Ministry in the world, as was every faithful person in the world then to that one temple, and priesthood at jerusalem, so neither could any man then, without sin, communicate with an ●aereticall, or idolatrous Priest, especially ministering in a false office, and by the like calling, and commission, which the Ministers both in Rome, and England do. In the 4. Argument Mr Ber: deals dishonestly. Mr Smith's inference upon the doctrine of succession, is, that then the Lord hath made the Ministers Lords over the Church, so that the Church cannot have or enjoy any of the Lords ordinances, or holy things, except they will consent unto them; for the holy things are in their power. Now Mr Ber. only trifles about the word Lord, and passeth by the substance of the inference which is most sound upon the doctrine. For if the Lords ordinances and holy things be tied to the Ministers, then without their consent there can be no use of them. And so where Ministers either are not, or not willing to communicate them, there can be no Church, no election of Ministers, no keys of the kingdom, and so no salvation: as I have formerly manifested upon Math. 16. 19 The sum of Mr Smiths 5. Argument is, that then the Pope may excommunicate the whole Church universal; the Bishops their whole Dioceses, and Provinces: and the Praesbytery the particular Church whereof it is. Your answer Mr Bernard, is, that this were to do the Pope a great favour to prove him to have an universal power, etc. and 2. that by this sequel of Mr Smythes, this absurdity would follow, that the Bishop might cast out the Church, out of the Church. It is you that do the Pope this great favour, though you would not own it. For if the Ministry make the Church, and that Rome be a true Church, then must the ministry of Rome be true, specially of the Pope, from which the other is derived as from the head. Again, if the ordination by the Bishops in the impure Church of Rome be the Lords order, as you expressly affirm p. 145. of your former book, then must the Pope's universal power, by which the Bishops do universally ordain, be the power of the Lord which from him he hath received for that purpose. They which hold, that the power of the keys was given first & immediately to the Apostle Peter, & so to the Popes of Rome his successors, they hold that the Pope may excommunicate the whole Church: so they which hold the Bishop, or his substitute to be meant, where Christ saith, tell the Church, they must necessarily hold, that the Bishop or his substitute may excommunicate his whole Province, or Diocese; and so of them which hold the Praesbytery to be the Ch: there spoken of, for the particular assembly over which it is. The Church there meant may excommunicate any brother, or brethren (whom, or how many soever) that refuse to hear her: as the Church of Corinth, to whom 1 Cor. 1. 2. & ●. 1●. 13 Paul writ might judge all them which were within, and not without, & under the Lord's judgement The substance of the seventh, & last objection, is, (for the 6. hath no weight in it) that the doctrine of succession overthrows itself, and the Reason is, because one POPE doth not make another by ordination whiles he lives, but the Cardinals do by Election make the new Pope after the death of the former. So that the Pope receiving his ministerial power from the Cardinals, cannot give it to them, and so to the rest of the Clergy in Rome, and England, neither can it descend from Christ through the Apostles, and so through him to the other inferior ministers, but as in a chain if the highest link be broken, the rest which hang upon it must needs fall: So if there be a breach of this chain of succession from the Apostles to the ministry of Rome, and of England (which descends of it lineally) in the highest link, the Pope, all the rest of the chain that hangs upon it, except it be otherwise upheld, must needs fall flat upon the ground. It is true which Mr Ber: answers that election, and succession by ordination may stand together in the ministry, but in this case it cannot, except the Pope should by the election of the Cardinals, or others, ordain his succession whilst himself survived. Now in this last answer Mr B: challengeth his adversary to be wild in wandering, and to have lost his question, in concluding that the doctrine of succession is a false doctrine, where he should prove that Christ's power is not given to the principal members. But this challenge is both unjust, & unadvised. unjust, because succession from the popish Church, and Clergy is made by M: Ber: in his former book the foundation of the ministry of England, and so of the Church: the Church by his affirmation being made by the ministers, and the Ministers by such Bishops pag. 145 as were ordained in the popish Church. unadvised because these two points, do depend each upon other necessarily. For if Christ's power be tied to the officers whether principal, or inferior, then must it come to the ministry, and Church of England by succession: if it come not by succession from, or by the Pope, and his Clergy, then must it come by the same succession of faith, & doctrine unto the children of Abraham, two or three, or more faithful persons joined together in the covenant, and fellowship of the gospel. And for the question in Mr Bernard's own words (remitting the Reader to such places as prove, that a company of faithful people in the covenant of the gospel, though without officers are a visible Church, that they have immediate right to the holy things of God; and that the keys for binding, and losing were given to Peter's confession) I will add only one Argument, and so proceed. It hath been sundry times observed, and proved by the “ Num: 16. 9 & 1●. 7. 2 Chr: 35. ●. Ezech: 44. 11. Math. ●0. 2●. 26. 27. 2 Cor: 4. 5. Rome 15. 3●. scriptures, that the officers of the Church, are the servants of the Ch: and their office a service of the Lord, and of his Church. Whereupon it followeth necessarily, that what power the officers have, the body of the Church hath first, and before them, the very light of nature, & common sense teaching it, that what power, or authority soever the the servants of any body, or persons have, the body or persons whose servants they are, must have it first, and they by them. And for this purpose let it be further observed, that no power at all came unto the Church of the jews by the Levites: not the use of the sacrament of circumcision; no nor of the very sacrifices: which were offered by the first born in the family, and that even after the people's coming out of Egypt under the hand of Moses, till Levi was called to the priesthood. Ex. 13. 2. & 24. ●. I proceed. If the Ministry of the reformed Churches must be by succession, or ordination by Popish Bishops, then must the same office of Ministry be continued from the one Church to the other: as indeed it was withal the Ministers of the Church of England at the first; who without any new either calling, or ordination (which depends upon it) continued their office, and place formerly received; there being only a reformation of some of the grossest evils, like the healing of jobs soars, as Mr B. speaketh: as the office of justiceship, or the like in the common wealth, may be continued the same in the same persons individually, though by edict of Parliament, or other superior power, there be a surceasing of some main act of it. Further to tie the Ministry thus to succession, is to tie the Lords sheep to submit to no other shepherds but such as the wolves have appointed. And if a company of God's people in Rome, or spain, should come out of Babylon, and no consecrated Priest amongst them, they must, by this doctrine, enjoy no Ministers, but such as the Romish wolves will ordain, & do, according to their Popish, & profane order. To these things I might also add, that look what power any of the Pope's Clergy receive from him, the same he takes from them & deprives them of, where they withdrew their obedience, or separate from that Church: as also that the ordinations in Rome, by their own Canons, are very nulli●yes, and many the the like exceptions pleaded by learned protestants against the Romish priesthood, and this Romish doctrine of succession: but that which hath been spoken is sufficient in the general, and I hasten to the third and last means of the three, by which Gods people after antichrist's defection are to enjoy the ministry, and other of Christ's ordinances. And for our better proceeding herein, I will first consider, what ordination is: and 2. how far the brethren may go by the scriptures, and the necessary consequences drawn from them, in this and the like cases, in the first planting of Churches, or in the reducing of them into order,, in or after some general confusion. The Prelates, and those which level by their line do highly advance ordination, and far above the administration of the word, Bishop Barl. ser: b 〈…〉 e the King. sacraments, and prayer: making it, and the power of excommunication the two incommunicable prerogatives of a Bishop in their understanding above an ordinary minister: But surely herein these chief ministers do not succeed the chief ministers, the Apostles, except as darkness succeeds light, and antichrist's confusion Christ's order. Where the Apostles were sent out by Christ, there was no mention of ordination; their charge was to † Math. 28. 20 go teach all nations, and baptise them: and that the Apostles accounted preaching their principal work, and after it baptism, & prayer the scriptures " A●t. 6. 4. 1. Cor. 1 17. manifest. And if ordination had been in those days so prime a work, surely Paul would rather have tarried in Crete himself to have ordained Elders there, and have sent Titus an inferior officer 'tis 1. 5. about that inferior work of preaching, then have gone himself about that, leaving Titus for the other. But because Mr Bernard (with whom I deal) when he writes most advisedly, prefers * pag. 137. ●●●st book. preaching to the first place, and the administration of the sacraments, and prayer to the next, passing by ordination as not worthy the naming amongst these principal works, I will therefore leave it to be honoured by them, whom it most honoureth, and for whose ease, and profit it best serveth, and will consider in what place he setteth it. He then pleading, that as well the ordination; as the baptism received 2. book p. 311. in Rome is to be held, makes ordination & the calling of the Ministers all one. Wherein as he unfitly compares together things not to be compared, to wit, baptism into the name of the true God, & ordination, into a false office (except he hold a masse-preisthood a true office) so doth he unadvisedly confound a part with the whole, yea the last, and least part, as ordination is: and which doth indeed depend upon the people's lawful election, as an effect upon the cause, by virtue of which it is justly administered, & may be thus described, or considered of us: as the admission of, or putting into possession, a person lawfully elected, into, or of a true Office of Ministry. For example, the Mayor, Bailiff, or other chief officer in a privileged City, or Corporation, is chosen by the people to his office, but withal must be entered, and inaugurated with some solemn ceremony, as the giving of the City's keys, or sword, into his hand, or the like, by his praedecessour. So is it with the Ministers, the officers of this spiritual corporation the Church, the right unto their offices they have by election, the possession of them by ordination, with the ceremony of imposition of hands. The Apostle Peter, advertising the * Act. 1. 15. 16. 21. 22. 26. disciples, or brethren that one (so fitted as is there noted) was to be made in the room of judas, a witness with the eleven Apostles, of the resurrection of Christ, (when two were by them presented, such as were fit, and by them so deemed) did, with the rest present them two, and none other, to the Lord, that he by the immediate direction of the lot might show, whether of them two he had chosen. In like manner “ Ch. 6. 2. 3. 5. 6. the twelve being to institute the office of Deaconry in the Ch: at jerusalem, called the multitude of the disciples together, and informed them what manner of persons they were to choose: which choice being made by the brethren accordingly, and they so chosen presented to the Apostles, they forthwith ordained them, by virtue of the election so made by the brethren. To these ad, that the Apostles * Act. 13▪ 2. & 14. 23. PAUL, & BARNABAS (being thereunto called by the H. Ghost) did pass from Church to Church, and from place to place, and in every Church, where they came, did ordain them Elders by the people's election, signified by their lifting up of hands, as the word is, and as the use was in popular elections, throughout those countries. Now the Apostles were in a manner strangers unto them, coming as it were to one place over night, and ready to depart the next morning, or at least tarrying a very small while in every Church, as doth appear, both by the course of the story, & by the many several places they passed to, & fro, & those some of them distant one from another a great space, both by sea, and land. So that neither the liberty of the very Apostles was so great in ordaining, as was the peoples in choosing: neither were they to ordain but such as the other choose, nor but to ordain them, except just exception were against them: neither was their ordination so much as the others election, no more than possession is so much as right: neither did the Apostles in their ordination rely so much upon their own as upon the people's knowledge, and experience of the men, which were to be called into office. Besides these things, though it appear that * Act. 13. 1. 2. 3. 1 Tim. 4. 14 & 2. 1. 6. Act. 14 23. Paul, & Barnabas were ordained by laying on of hands, to that special work appointed them by the H. Ghost, and that the Evangelists were so ordained, and so the Bishops, or Elders in the Churches by the Apostles, and Evangelists, yet read we of no such solemnity performed by Christ upon his Apostles, when he called them; nor by Peter, or the Apostles at the choice of Mathias, Act. 1. but being by the people presented with joseph, and by the Lord singled out by lot, he was by a common consent counted with the eleven Apostles. Whereupon also some reformed Churches have thought that this solemn ordination The Churches in Scotland. by imposition of hands is of no such necessity, but that it might be used, or not used indifferently, and so have practised. But the judgement, and plea (when they deal with us) of the most forward men in the Land, in this case, I may not omit; which is, that they renounce, & disclaym their ordination by the Prelates, and hold their Ministry by the people's acceptation. Now if the acceptation of a mixed company under the prelates government, (as is the best parish assembly in the kingdom) whereof the greatest part have by the revealed will of God, no right to the covenant, ministry, or other holy things, be sufficient to make a minister, then much more the acceptation of the people with us, being all of them jointly, and every one of them severally, by the mercy of God, capable of the Lords ordinances. These things, thus opened, I come in the next, and last place to manifest, what liberty the scriptures, just consequence, & good reason do allow the people for the reducing themselves into the order, and under the Ministry of Christ, after some general cofusion, such as the Papacy was, and is. And for this purpose I entreat the reader to recognise with me the points lately mentioned, and proved in the former part of the book, namely that * pag. 125. 126.— 130. 131. a company of faithful people in the covenant of the Gospel are a Church, though without officers: that this Church hath interest in all the holy things of God within itself, and immediately under Christ the head, without any foreign assistance: that in cases, † pag. 142. 143. 144. a private person, or brother, in such a Church, may do a necessary work of an officer: & lastly, that † pag. 149. 150. 151. the keys of the kingdom were given to, and the Church to be built upon the rock of Peter's confession, Math. 16. And so I come to the point itself. I do then acknowledge, that where there are already lawful officers in a Church, by, and to which, others are called, there the former, upon that election, are to ordain, and appoint the latter. The officers, being the ministers of the Church, are to execute the determinations, and judgements of the Church under the Lord: the Censures of deposition, and excommunication by pronouncing the sentence of judgement, and by it, as by the sword of the spirit drawn out, cutting of the officer from his office, and the member from the body, and all communion with it: So are they to execute the people's election by pronouncing the person elect to his office, charging him with the faithful execution of it, with imposition of hands, and prayer. And indeed ordination, in the calling of the ministers is properly the execution of election. But as in a civil corporation, or City, though the Mayor, Baylif, or other chief officer elect, be at his entrance, and inauguration, to receive at the hands of his praedecessour, the sword, or keys of the City, or to have some other solemn Ceremony by him performed unto him: yet if either there be no former, as at the first; or that the former be dead, or upon necessity absent, when his successor entereth, then is this Ceremony and work performed by some other the fittest instrument: neither need that City borrow an officer of another City: neither could he intermeddle there, without usurpation, though both the Corporations have the same Charter, under the same King: so is it in this spiritual Corporation, and City of God, the Church: the former officers, if there be any in that particular congregation, are to ordain such as succeed: but if none be to be found, this Corporation is not to go to the next to borrow an officer, or two, but may use such fit persons, as she hath, for that service so absolutely necessary: neither may the officers of an other Corporation do the acts of their office in that, except they be either Apostles, or Evangelists, and have general charges: or rather except they will make themselves Pope's: as indeed this exorbitant, and roving course makes as many universal Bishops, in respect of power, & so likewise of execution, if there be occasion, as there are officers in all the Churches. But to come unto the scriptures, it hath been formerly noted that the first born in the family, before the law, did perform the priests office: in whose place the Levites were afterwards substituted. Now as † Exod: 29. 1. 2. 3 &. the Priests of the Levites did not enter upon their office without solemn consecration, nor the ministers of the new testament upon theirs, without solemn * Act: 6. 6 & 14. 23. ordination or appointment, so neither can it be conceived, that the first borne did “ Heb: 5. 4 take unto themselves the honour to administer, without some solemnity performed to or upon them, by their predecessors: & so we read, that when † Gen: 27. ●7. Isaak conveyed the blessing, and birthright to jacob, he kissed him, as did *: ch. 48 17. 18. 19 20. jacob also lay his right upon the head of Ephraim, when with the blessing he did transfer the birthright to him from Manasseth. But if the father of the family were suddenly taken away, or died before his first borne were capable of this ministration, then could he not thus solemnly resign, or transmit to him the office, or work, but there must needs have been some interposition of another, if any solemn admission at all were required. To come lower. When † Numb. 8. 6. 9 10. etc. 20. 21. the Levites were given, at the first, to the Lord, as a redemption of the first borne, for the service of the tabernacle, we do find that the people did, by putting their hands upon them, offer, and ordain them, as their shake offering, and gift unto the Lord. But this liberty, which the people here used, by the Lord's appointment, at the first, and when the first officers were consecrated in the Church, we do not read to have continued, or so to have been used in the consecration of the succeeding Levites ordinarily. And as the Lord would have the people to use this special liberty in the first institution, and consecration of the Levites in that Church, (which notwithstanding they used not in the ordinary consecration of such Levites, as followed, when the Ch: was once furnished with officers) so doth the holy Ghost give testimony of the same, or the like liberty used by them afterwards upon a special occasion and in that general confusion, which fell upon the whole Church, when the Priests were slain, and the Ark of God was taken by the Philistims. It is then noted 1 Sam: 7. 1. that, upon the † 1 Sam: 6. 20. 21. message from the men of Bethshemesh, the men of Kirjath-i●arim came, and took up the ark of the Lord, and brought it into the house of Abinadab in the hill; and that they sanctified Eleazar his Son to keep the Ark of the Lord. And the very same word which is used Exod: 29. 1. where the Lord bids Moses consecrato the sons of Aaron to be Priests, is used in this place where the men of Kirjath-i●arim sanctified Eleazar to keep the ark: sanctification, & consecration being all one in substance, and the word the same in the original. Lastly, the Apostle “ Gal: 1. 1. 2 8. 9 Paul writes to the Churches of Galatia to reject as accursed, such ministers whomsoever, as should preach otherwise, than they had already received: and the same Apostle writeth to the Church at Colossus, to admonish * Col: 4. 17. Archippus to take heed to his ministry: so did john also to the Church of Ephesus, commending it for † Rev. 1. 2. examining, and so consequently for silencing such, as pretended themselves Apostles and were not: as also to the Church of Thiatyra reproting it for “ Ch. 3. 20 suffering unsilenced the false Prophetess lezabell: now as these things did first, and principally concern the officers, who were in these, and all other things of the same nature to go before, and govern the people: so were the people also in their places interessed in the same buesines, and charge: neither could the officers sin, if they were or should have been, corrupt, or negligent) discharge the people of their duty in the things, which concerned them: but they were bound notwithstanding to see the commandments of the Apostles, and of the Lord jesus by them, executed accordingly. And if the people be in cases, and when their officers fail, thus solemnly to examine, admonish, silence, and suppress their teachers, being faulty, and unsound: then are they also by proportion, where officers fail, to elect, appoint, set up, and over themselves, such fit persons, as the Lord affoardeth them, for their furtherance of faith, and salvation. In the 2. place I do add the conclusion unto the praemises lately proved, that since the people of God going out of Babylon must come under the Lord's order, and officers, and may not receive them by succession from the Pope, and his Clergy, nor are to expect them immediately from heaven, therefore they themselves are to call and appoint them for the Lords, and their own service under him. 3. Upon the former ground, that the Lords people must come out of Babylon, & build a new the Lords temple in jerusalem, even themselves, their souls, and bodies, for * 1 Pet. 2. 5 a spiritual house, and that the Levites, and Priests of the Lord must minister there, it is necessary we consider by the scriptures what course hath been taken formerly for the furnishing of this house thus newly built, of the Church newly constituted, with officers, where they have wanted. We do then read, that when that ancient, and mother Church of the jews was to be furnished with Officers, † Numb. 5 9 10. 11.— 16. 20. the Lord commaun●●! Moses to assemble all the congregation of the children of Israel, and to direct them how to offer and freely to give unto the Lord for a shake-offering the Levites, for the first born, to execute the service of the Lord. Afterwards, when in the Apostles time, * Act. 1. 15 etc. one was to he chosen in the room of judas, Peter standing up in the mids of the disciples informed them in their liberty, and directed them in the use of it, for the praesenting of two, of which, the Lord would single out one to succeed him. Likewise in the same story, when Deacons were wanting in the Ch: at jerusalem, † Ch. 6. 2. 3. 5. the twelve calling the multitude of the disciples together, put them in mind of their liberty, and informed them in their duty for the choosing of so many as were needful, so furnished as is there noted. The same course did Paul, and Barnabas afterwards direct Ch: 14. 23. the Churches amongst the Gentiles for the choosing of Elders in every City, where they came. Now if * Rome 15. 3. all things which are written before, be written for our learning, and for the learning of all the Churches, and people of God, why are not the people, and Churches of God, in all places to learn from hence their liberty, and duty, for the choosing of officers, where they are wanting▪ having men thereunto fitted by the Lord. And what hindereth but that the Church, the multitude, the Disciples (call them as you will) in the fellowship, and covenant of the gospel, may be as clearly informed in their duty, and as effectually exhorted to the use of their liberty by the writings of the Prophets, and Apostles, as by their speeches. The Apostle, writing to the Church of Corinth about the censuring of the incestuous man, though he were “ 1 Cor: 5. 3. absent in body, yet was present in spirit, which was, in effect, all one, and as available to that purpose as his bodily presence should have been: so though Moses and Peter, and Paul, be bodily absent, yet are they in their writings, present in spirit, after a sort, nay God himself in spirit is present in them, with his Churches, & people, both for their warrant, direction, and comfort. Though it be true than which M B: saith that the people waited first book 145. 2. book 296 till the Apostles came; and that they did not elect officers but upon their exhortation: yet must it also be considered that Apostles do now come in their writings, as there they did in corporal presence, and that they exhort as fully in them now, as they did in speech then. Besides there are now no Apostles upon earth, nor other Church officers having † 2 Cor. 11. 28. the care of all the Churches, in the world as the Apostles had: nor that are extraordinarily and miraculously endued with all gifts especially with the gift of all tongues, as the Apostles were; nor that have the like general commission Act. 2. 1. 3. 4. etc. Mat. 28. to teach all nations, as they had. The ordinary officers, which the Apostles, and Evangelists left in the Churches, and for the choice of whom▪ they left order to the world's end were such Elders or Bishops as were assigned, and fixed to such particular flocks as they were to feed, under that chief shepherd, and great Bishop jesus Christ. Besides, if the Churches, or people should wait now, as M Ber. would have them till the Bishops of Rome, or England came to them, as the Apostles did to the Churches in their time, to exhort them to choose officers, and to ordain them for them, they might languish under a wanhope, & wait till their eyes failed in their heads. Whereupon then I do conclude, that if the Church without officers may elect, it may also ordain officers▪ if it have the power and commission of Christ for the one, and that the greater, it hath it also for the other, which is the less. If it have officers, it must use them as hands to put the persons by ordination into that office, to which they have right by election: but if it want officers, it may, and must use other the fittest instruments it hath: as in the natural body, if men want hands, or be deprived of the use of them, they do for their present necessity use their teeth, or feet, or other fittest parts of the body, for the business possible to be done by them. Lastly if the Lord should raise up in America, or the like place, a company of faithful men, and women, (which of stones should become children to Abraham) by the reading of the scriptures, or by some godly men's writings, or (which is most like) by the holy instructions, and exhortations of some merchants, or travaylers, how, or by what means should they come by Ministers? Must they be sent out of Europe unto them? And if they were they would be barbari●ns each to others, neither understanding others 1 Cor. 14. 11. language. But what to do hath the Pope of Rome, or the Bishops in England, or the Praesbytery in Germany, or France to appoint them in America Ministers? It is evident that such an assembly, as I speak of, having received the gospel, have received the keys of the kingdom, and the power of Christ: and being joined in this fellowship of the gospel, have the joint use of the keys, & power of Christ: & being within the covenaunt of Abraham, are the Ch: of God: & so have power to choose, and appoint their own Ministers from within themselves. Now because these things willbe better taken at other men's hands, then at ours, yea it may be with many, through prejudice, their very authority will sway more than our Arguments though never so rightly grounded upon the scriptures, & common reason, I will therefore here crave leave to bring in a few men of singular note both at home, & abroad, to show their judgements in the case in hand. And I will first bring in one, of our own nation, of great account (and that worthily) with all that fear God, how ever he were against us in our practice. The man is Mr Perkins. He then writing about ordination, & succession, in his Commentary upon the Epistle to Gal: ch. 1. ver: 11. gives this testimony: that, if in Turkey, or America, or elsewhere, the gospel should be received of men, by the counsel, & persuasion of private persons, they should not need to send into Europe for consecrated Ministers, but had power to choose their own Ministers from within themselves: & the Reasons of this he renders in the same place, because where God gives the word, he gives the power also. And I do desire especially his Reason may be observed: which is, that, where God gives the word, there he gives the power also. Whereupon it follows, that any other assembly whether in America, or Europe, separating themselves from Idolatry, whether Heathenish, or Antichristian, & receiving the gospel of Christ, do with the gospel receive the power also: & so may choose their ministers within themselves: & need not send to any other place, no not to the next parish for consecrated Ministers. In the 2. place I will allege one of greater note, and more ancient: and that is Philip Melancton: who, in his Answer to the ministers in Bohemia, which taught the incorrupt doctrine of the gospel, refutes the pretext of ordination to be taken from the Bishops, with that of Paul, * Gal. 1. 8. if any teach another gospel, let him be an Athema; adding also that only the assembly where true doctrine soundeth is the Church: and that in it is the ministry of the gospel: in it are the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Wherefore in that very assembly (in eo ipso coetu) there is the right of calling, and ordaining the ministers of the gospel, because we must fly the enemies of the gospel, as an Anathema. And beside (saith he) if we should desire of them the ceremony of ordination, they would not give it, except we would bind ourselves to renounce the true doctrine; & other wicked bonds would they cast upon us. Neither therefore ought the true Ch: to be without Pastors, without the keys, without the voice of the gospel, without forgiveness of ●inns, because the tyranny of the Bishops either drives away, or refuses to appoint fit Ministers. And again, it is the confusion of order to seek shepherds from the wolves. And lastly, this hath ever been the right of the true Church, to choose, and call out of her own assembly fit Ministers of the gospel. Thus far h●. In the third place Peter Martyr shall speak, who upon the book of judges ch. 4. vers. 5. saith thus: Touching the ecclesiastical Ministry we have signified before, that it may not be committed to women, & that they are not fit for it. But now we add, that, in the planting of Churches anew, when men want, which should preach the gospel, a woman may perform that, at the first; but so as when she hath taught any company, that some one man of the faithful be ordained, which may afterwards minister the sacraments, teach, and do the pastors duty faithfully. 4. Zanchy▪ upon the fifth to the Ephesians, treating of Baptism propounds a question of a Turk coming to the knowledge of Christ, and to saith by reading the new Testament, and withal teaching his family, & converting it, and others to Christ; and being in a country, whence he can not easily come to Christian Churches; whether he may baptize them, whom he hath converted to Christ, he himself being unbaptized? He answers, I doubt not of ●●, but that he may, and withal provide, that he himself be baptised of one of the three converted by him. The Reason (be giveth) 〈…〉, because he is a Minister of the word extraordinarily stirred up of Christ: & so, as such a Minister may, with the consent of that small Church, appoint one of the “ Symm●stam. communicants, and provide, that he be baptised by him. Add in the fifth place Tilenus, who being demanded of the Earl of Lavall, from whom Calvin had his calling, answered, from the Church of Geneva, and from Farell, his praedecessour: who had also his from the people of Geneva; who had right, and authority, to institute, and depose Ministers: which thing he also confirms by Cyprian: Ephes. 14. The sixth, and last I will name is Sadeel who writing a treatise of purpose, touching the lawful calling of Ministers, against such as agreed with the reformed Churches in the doctrine they taught, but excepted against them in this, that they had not their Ministers by ordinary succession: skewes, that amongst, and above other things the ecclesiastical Ministry of Rome is corrupted: & makes it a shameless thing, that any boasting of the pure knowledge of God, should object against them, that they did not draw the pure reformation of the ecclesiastical Ministry out of the drags of Popery. The first argument he useth to justify the calling of their Ministers is, that they are called, chosen, and received of these assemblies which do appear by manifest signs, and arguments to be true Churches▪ as having the true doctrine of faith, the pure administration of the sacraments, the right and sincere ●●vocation of God's name, observing religiously the discipline instituted by Christ, and his Apostles: and lastly testifying by the duties of love, constancy of Martyrs, and reformation of the whole life, that they are by the great mercy of God, adopted into the number of the faithful, as members of the Catholic Church: etc. And thus much of the Ministry both yours Mr Ber: & ours: and more particularly to prove, that an assembly of faithful people separating themselves from Heathenish, or Antichristian idolatry, have right within themselves to call, and appoint their Ministers. Now from this conclusion thus manifested do arise sundry others worthy the noting down, for the common controversy. As first that such an assembly (though without officers) is a true I. visible Church, the kingdom of Christ, & City of God. And I suppose it needs no confirmation to any good conscience, that the choice of Church officers is a Church action, a main part of the administration of Christ's kingdom, and a privilege of that spiritual City the new jerusalem: and that such an assembly hath the power of Christ, and from him authority, and commission: without which it were intolerable usurpation to praesume to choose his officers: especially the chief officers in his kingdom, as are they which administer the word, & sacraments, of whom we principally entreat. 2. That the people have power to censure offenders: for they that II. have power to elect, appoint, & set up officers, they have also power (upon just occasion) to reject, depose, & put them down: & so are part of that Church, where officers are; and the whole Church, where they are not; of which Christ speaketh Math: 18. 17. where he saith tell the Church. Besides, that the calling of officers, and censuring of offenders are the two main administrations of the kingdom of Christ, and so both of one nature. 3. And lastly that the brethren out of office, whether in a Church III. furnished with officers, or without them, are not mere private persons; as you Mr Ber: and others, would make them, in the exercise of prophecy, calling of Ministers, and judging of offenders for scandalous sins. Considering them in deed severally one by one, or in opposition to the public officers, they may be called private persons: but take them jointly, and in these and the like acts of their communion, and they are more than so: and as the Church is a public body, so are they members of the body, and parts of the whole, and of the same public nature with it: and not private parts, or members of the public body: which were a senseless contradiction, and contrary to the rule in Reason. The whole, and all the parts jointly taken, are the same. When † Act: 1. the brethren made choice of joseph, and Mathyas to be presented: and afterwards of the “ ch. 6. seven Deacons: & after that of * ch. 14. the Elders in every Church, did they make a private choice of public officers? or could they as private persons merely, make a public choice? When the Apostle Paul wrote to the Church of Corinth (which you grant to be the multitude, or † first book Pag: 92. body of the Church about the censuring of the incestuous person) did he will them to judge and censure him privately for his public scandalous sin? or could they as persons merely private pass a public judgement? The thing than is, that when the Church is gathered or come together in one for the administration of the word, sacraments, censures and other exercises of religion, & parts of God's worship, the officers, (if there be any) and brethren with them, are one & the same public body, to be exercised in one and the same part of their public communion: and to make the officers public persons, and the brethren private in the communion, is to make a schism in the Church: and to make the brethren part of the communion, in the administration of the word, & sacraments, prayer, singing of Psalms, contribution, calling of officers, censuring of offenders, or other Church action whatsoever, private, and the officers public is to make it schismatical, & them in it schismatics. Thus much of the 9 error objected. The tenth followeth, which is, that we say Their worship is a false worship. M: B. For answer unto this assertion Mr B: refers us to the end of this treatise; and there then will we attend for it: & yet somewhat will he say against it: & that is. First, that they worship no false God. 2. that they worship the true God with no false worship. We charge you not with the worship of any false God, though Answ: we shall see by, & by how, in one particular, you will defend yourselves. But the thing you should have endeavoured, is, to prove that your divine-service-book framed by man, and by man imposed to be used, without addition or alteration, as the solemn worship of your Church, is that true, and spiritual manner of worshipping God, which he hath appointed: & with which he will be worshipped in spirit, & truth. Of this you say little, or nothing, but because you seem to yourself to say somewhat, we will see what it is. The word (you say) preached, is the true word: the sacraments true M: B. sacraments: the prayers we pray (whether, conceived, or set, and stinted) are such as may be warranted by the word: and agreeable to the prescript form taught by our saviour Christ. The word preached in popery, or in the most heretical assembly Answ. in the world, is the true word, but the devises of men are not the true word, either with you or them. Yea the devils themselves preached the true word, when they affirmed, and published that jesus was “ Luk 4▪ 41 & 8. 28 that Christ, the son of God, the most High: did they therefore perform unto God true worship? Of the sacraments I have spoken formerly, & have showed that in the administration of them, they cannot be reputed true. It is the † Eph: 5. 26. word of promise, that makes the sacraments, except then the parish assemblies, jointly considered in their members, have right unto the spiritual promises of God, the sacraments administered in, and unto them in that their estate, cannot so be accounted true sacraments. For your prayers, I observe sundry things out of your own words, which I may not pass over: as first, that you speak not properly, no nor truly in saying you pray stinted prayers: for you read them, and who will say reading is praying? you pray to God, but will you say you read to God? or if you so say, and do, is it agreeable either to his ordinance, or to common reason? Mistake me not, as though I speak of inward prayer, or of the lifting up of the heart: for I grant a man may pray inwardly, or lift up the heart to God, when he reads, or preaches, or sings, or receives the sacraments: of such prayer we neither speak, nor can discern, but in ourselves: our speech then being of the outward act, & ordinance of prayer, I do affirm, (and so marvayl if all reasonable men concur not with me) that the ordinance of reading cannot be the ordinance of praying. 3. In your division of prayer, wherein you make some conceived, and some set and stinted, you grant, that the prayers which are set, and stinted, are not conceived: wherein you do as much as grant, that they are not of God, nor according to his will. The Apostle Jude directeth us always to * Jude, 20. pray in the holy Ghost: and Paul teacheth, that † Rom. ●. 26 we cannot pray as we ought, but as the spirit helpeth us, and begetteth in us sighs unutterable: by the work of which spirit if our prayers be not conceived first in our hearts before they be brought forth in our lips, they are an unnatural, bastardly, and profane birth. Lastly, if your stinted prayer be (as you say) agreeable to the prescript form of prayer taught by our saviour Christ, then must none other form of prayer be used but a stinted or set form: for none other form may be used but that which is agreeable to the prescript form of Christ: since Christ hath said, “ Math. 6. 9 after this manner, pray. Where you further add, that nothing is imposed or done by you for the worship of God, but the word read, and preached, and the sacraments, and prayer, I demand of your first, in worship, or honour of whom are your holy days, bearing the names of S. Michael's, S. Peter, S. john's day, and the rest, imposed, and kept? if in the honour of the Saints & Angels, then are you not clear (as you make yourselves) from the worshipping of false Gods: neither can you exempt yourselves from the number of them, which * Collos. 2. 18▪ 23. in voluntary religion worship Angels: if on the other side those days be appointed and so kept holy, in the worship and honour of God, then do you (and that by authority) worship God by, and put holiness in, other things, than the word read, & preached, and the sacraments, and prayer; yea and other things, than ever came into the Lord's heart to sanctify for his worship. And so the place Math. 15. 9 and other scriptures to that purpose are truly (though you say, falsely) alleged against you. 2. I do demand of you, whether your Apocrypha books, namely that which is placed betwixt both testaments, causing the jews to think the new testament no better, than the fables which are joined to it, as a learned man of our nation hath observed, and the other book Mr Broughton. of Homilies, be enjoined, and used as parts of God's worship? It is evident they are so held. And therefore it is, that a great portion of the former is preferred in the most solemn assemblies before the canonical scriptures; and the reading of them, before the reading of the other, which they justle out of their place. And for the homilies, they are enjoined (and so used) in stead of the preaching of the word which is the principal part of God's worship: whereupon it followeth that the Apocrypha writings of men, being preferred before one part of God's worship, which is the reading of the Canonical scriptures, and used in stead of an other part of God's worship, yea and that the principal part, as is preaching, are imposed (and so used) as parts of God's worship. So that it is not without good cause, M Ber: that M Ainsworth bids you prove the Apocrypha scriptures, and books of Homilies the true word of God. Nothing, you tell us, is imposed and used amongst you for the worship of God, but the true word of God read, and preached, and the sacraments, and prayer: now these being imposed, and used for the worship of God, and being neither the preaching of the word, nor the sacraments, nor prayer, must needs be the true word of God, & so you must prove them, or else the truth of your assertion is disproved. Touching your discourse of the order of God's worship before, in, and after the Apostles time, I observe (to let pass other particulars) your error, in making the particular Synagogues of the jews, as the particular Churches are now. The Synagogues were not entire Churches of themselves, but parts, or members of the national Ch: neither could they have use of the most solemn parts of God's worship, as were then the sacrifices: neither could the chief Ministers in the Church execute their office in them: but as they depended upon the temple in jerusalem, so were the people Deut. 12. 1 Chro. 22. to carry their offerings thither, and there to enjoy these ministrations. But particular congregations now do stand in no such dependency; they may enjoy within themselves the word, sacraments, and prayer, which are the most solemn services in the Ch: now, and so by consequence, all the rest. In deed it is with your parish assemblies, somewhat as it was with the Synagogues: they cannot enjoy the Ministers by, and from within themselves, nor have the use of ecclesiastical government, but must depend upon their jerusalem's, the Bishop's Chapels, and Consistories, for these their most solemn, and peculiar administrations. Mr B: in his † pag. 32●. 2. book to prove their worship true worship, pretends 3 distinct Arguments. The first, because it is according to the word of God. 2. because it is not forbidden in the scripture. 3. because it is after the M B: manner of the worship of the true Churches of God, set down in the word. another man would have comprehended these three reasons in Answ: one: and so might Mr Ber. have done well enough, considering his confirmation of them: wherein he brings not so much as one scripture, or reason from scripture, to prove their prescript leyturgy by man devised, and imposed (of which our main quaest on is) to be according to the word of God: etc. only in the 3. Argument he toucheth an objection, which he calls a conceit of ours, viz: that it quencheth the spirit: to which he gives a double answer. First, that it is against known experience: 2. that it is the groundwork of Mr Smith▪ casting of reading the scriptures in the assembly. Other things he speaks are not worth the insisting upon; let us consider of his answers. To the former, of them touching known experience, I do reply two things: first that the experience of supposed good in a course, or by means, not warrantable by the written word of God, is of all godly wise men to be suspected. 2▪ though the experience of good be certain, yet must men take heed they honour not one thing for an other, as the means of that good: but they must put difference between that which is good, and that which is evil, in the same compound action. Many do avouch they have wrought in them much hatred of murder, treason, and the like evils, by a stage-play: others, that their devotion is much furthered by organ music, and the chanting of choristers, yea by the prayers in a tongue they understand not: all these will allege their known experience. But to leave these things. The Apostle Paul 1 Cor. 14. testifieth, that a man “ v: 4. speaking a strange language may edify himself, though not the Church: and though he * ●: 14. pray in a strange tongue without the understanding, or benefit of the Church, yet that his spi●●t may pray. Might such a man therefore allege his known experience for prayer in a strange tongue, contrary to the Apostles express inhibition? neither is it any justification of the service book in the use we speak of, that people do in the reading of it, find by experience, their affections furthered: God may, & doth therein honour the simple, & honest affections of his people so far, as to receive the request of their heart, which he seeth in secret, covering in mercy the outward manner of putting up the same, wherein they of ignorance, or infirmity, fail. And that these stinted and devised forms do quench the spirit of prayer, appears in that they deprive the Church, & minister of that liberty of the spirit of prayer, which God would have the use: stinting the Minister, yea all the Ministers in the kingdom, to the same measure of the spirit, not only one with an other, but all of them with him, that is dead and rotten: and so stinting the spirit, which the Lord gives his Ministers, for his Church: and that so strictly, as till the stint be out, it may not suggest one thought or word otherwise; or when it is out, one more, then is prescribed. † 1 Cor: 12 9 The manifestation of the spirit saith the Apostle, is given to every man to profit withal. But in the reading of a prescript form of prayer, there is not the manifestation of the spirit of the minister given him to profit the Church withal, but the manifestation of of the spirit of him, that devised, and penned the service book. Now for M Ber: 2 Answ: namely that this conceit of ours, saying that set prayer quencheth the spirit, is the groundwork of Mr Smiths casting of reading the scriptures in the assemblies: first, he wrongeth M. Smyth, who doth not deny the reading of the scriptures in the assembly, but that the reading of them is properly a part of God's worship. 2. Not our conceit, but his own ill collection is the groundwork of his error. Let the indifferent reader judge, whither this consequence be good or no. Because the reading of the Apocrypha Prayers of the Bishops of Rome or of England, or their Chapleyns', for prayer, quencheth the spirit, or is not the true manner of prayer, which Christ hath left; therefore the reading of the Canonical scriptures penned by the Prophets, and Apostles, for reading, quencheth the spirit, and is no part of God's worship. Other observations M Ber: hath in his Answer, some nothing to the purpose, and others against himself: as for example: The jews in the old Testament did meet together at set times commanded by Pag: 327. the Lord: so did the Churches of Christ in the new, or the first day of the week. Ergo the Church of England doth well in meeting at set times, yea holy times, not commanded by the LORD, and that far more solemnly, then on the first or LORDS day. 2. The jews had preaching every Lord's day, in every Synagogues: Pag: 328 329 therefore the Church of Engl: is in good estate, where there is no preaching, or as good as none, in one parish of ten, on the Lords day, or at other times. 3. The jewish Church had singing of the Psalms Pag: 328 of David, and of other prophetical men: and Christ himself did use the same; therefore the Church of England doth commmendably in singing besides them, the Apocrypha songs of men, full of errors, and vanities: as that † The humble suit of a sinner. the Saints, and Angels in heaven do yet see the wounds, and blood of Christ: that a sinner * Lamentation. need not confess his life, because God knows all things: & that he needs not repeat what he would have, because God knows it before he asks: that “ Complaint of a sinner. the scripture declares, there was no drop of blood in Christ, which he shed not for sinners: that † 12 Artscles of faith the spirit of Christ did after his burial descend into the lower parts, to them that long were in darkness, the true light of their hearts: that * Thanksgiving after the Lord's supper. the sun in the firmament, the heavens, the earth, the sea, and all therein, yea the spirits beneath, were made for man to rule them. But these things I pass over, and come to Mr B: second row of errors imputed to us, which he judgeth sufficiently confuted in the former, as also to be so absurd, and false, as that the reading of them is sufficient to make them to be rejected. The first of them is, that their congregations, as they stand, are all, and every one of them uncapable before God to choose them Ministers, though I. they desire the means of salvation. Answ: First let it here be noted, that Mr B: in this same book pag. 136 compared with pag. 138. makes it a rule for the Churches making a Minister, which must be kept, and from which she may not swerve, that the guides, and governors of the Church do choose one from amongst others for the Ministry. If the guides, and governors must choose, how then apperteyns this to your congregations? or how are they capable of this liberty? 2. If they be capable of this liberty, why do they not use it? There is no congregation in the Land, which as a Church, chooseth their Minister: the Patron, and Bishop have seized this liberty, & at their courtesy doth the congregation stand to receive either a preacher, or dumb priest: either a man of some conscience, or without all ●oar of God, or common honesty, whom they may not refuse. And if some parishes choose, it is not as Churches, but as Patrons. They have purchased the right of patronage with their money, and so use it. But what is this to that spiritual liberty, and charter of Christ's spiritual kingdom the Church? 3. I deny that any congregation in the Land desires the means of salvation. I speak of the congregation, which is the whole consisting of the parts jointly considered. The best parish hath too many in it that “ joh. 3. 19 love darkness rather than light, because their deeds are evil. This you find true in your own, Mr B. which you deem one of the best. And what right hath such an assembly to choose a Minister, which hath no right to his ministrations of the sacraments, & other holy things? Because the Lord jesus hath given his power, and charter to his subjects for the choice of their officers whether many, or few, doth it therefore follow that the subjects of sin, & Satan, professed traitors unto his Majesty, have the same liberty? or can his subjects combine with them that are, and always have been such, in the use, or rather in the usurpation of that divine privilege? These things Mr B: you extenuate, because you want them, but the Churches of Christ accounts them precious things: which they therefore labour to preserve pure. Of your false worship something hath been before, & more shallbe II. hereafter spoken; and you do idly make it a distinct error from the tenth. That baptism is not administered into the faith of Christ simply, but into III. the faith of Bishops, & Church of England, which you make our 3. error, Answ: do we not affirm, but leave it to him for justification, which not content with that in England received, hath found out since a 2. or 3. as he supposeth better than that was. ¶ We are to consider, baptism first, and principally in relation from GOD to us, and as a seal of the covenant of grace into which he hath received us: and secondarily in relation from us to God, & as we restipulate, or promise again unto him. In the first respect, it is effectual upon the very infants of the faithful, though for the present wanting faith: & in the 2. both may be, & is upon such as err in many great points of faith: otherwise the baptism ministered by john into the faith of Christ which came after Act: 19 4. him could not have been true unto many which received it, being ignorant a long time after of the very kingdom, & office of Christ. To conclude then, since the essential form of institution is retained in the baptism in Engl:, & the doctrine of the Trinity sincerely held, into whose name all persons are baptised indefinitely, the particular errors in that Church touching the manner of worshipping God, or touching the uses or ends of baptism (which are not of the essence) cannot make the baptism in itself cease to be indefinite. Of the 4. Error imputed unto us, namely, that we hold your FOUR faith, and repentance false, I say as of the third: and doubt not, but the personal faith, and repentance of very many men, and women there, according to the measure of knowledge, and grace received, Answ: is true, and sincere before God: yea and so visibly declared, and manifested to be, before men, in respect of their people: notwithstanding all the evils in their Church Communion and ordinances. Your 5. exception, viz: that your ministers convert men not as Pastors, V. but as teachers, is neither our error, nor assertion, but your own misconstruction. This we hold, that the conversion of men with Answ: you is no way to be ascribed to your office, which it justifieth not: but to the truths of God taught amongst you, by the special blessing of God upon them, notwithstanding the other evils wherewith they are mingled inseparably amongst you. To your demand what idol you worship, because we affirm your VI Church to stand in an adulterous estate, I do answer that you may stand in an adulterous estate, though Answ: you worship the true God only, if you do it after a devised manner: as in deed you do in your government, ministry, service-book, and ceremonies; which being all properly matters of religion and not commanded by the Lord, are devises of your own against the 2. commandment, which forbids nothing but idolatry. Your 7. insimulation against us, is, that we cannot say certainly VII. by any warrant of God's word, that any of you have either faith or fear of God. Wherein you censure us, as having lost the feeling of former grace, and all true charity. Answ: Mr Smyth in his Parallels shows your fraud, & evil dealing with him in this case, whom you name in your margin. And I further add, that I do not only in the general believe there are many such, but am so persuaded in the particular of many I know. Yet so to say certainly of any of you, I cannot, nor of ourselves neither, by the word of God. A man can say this only of himself certainly, because he only knows his own heart: but of others morally, & in the judgement of charity, which is according to outward appearance, and which may deceive. The 8. & 9 errors imputed to us are, that we hold none of their 8. & 9 Ministers may be heard: & that it is not lawful to join in prayer with any of them. Sundry things Mr B. brings to evince the former position of error, Answ: but not one of them so much as tending to prove it lawful to partake in an office of Ministry either devised or usurped with out lawful calling, as that in Engl: hath been proved to be. It is not true than which he saith, that we censure any for hearing the word: we do it for partaking in other men's sins: and for receiving the 1 Tim: 5. 22. Rev: 18. 4. Chap: 14. 9 mark of the beast, in communicating with the Ministry of Antichrist; as we assuredly know yours to be the office, & entrance into it (notwithstanding the truths taught, & personal graces in the teachers) and for obstinacy in the same. It is true then, but not pertinent, which Mr B. saith, that it is a good thing to hear the word: which who denies but the Church of Engl: that silemceth the Preachers of it for her own, & the Pope's inventions? & that ties the people to their unpreaching parish-preists, rather than permits them to hear a Preacher in the next parish? Other things objected by him are else where handled: yet seems Separists schism. Pag 153 154. it not amiss to add something touching three scriptures by him produced, and appy'ed to his purpose: & they are Mat. 23. 1. 2. 3. Phil. 1. 15. 18. Tit. 3. 10. 11. And first, there is not one of these scriptures that gives so much as any colour of countenance to the hearing of the word ministered in a false Church, devised office, and by virtue of an unlawful calling: or where any of these bars are put: and by all these we do believe & affirm ourselves to be kept from hearing you. And this general defence I do apply unto the particulars, and first to the first: answering, that the Scribes, and Pharisees did neither minister to any but the Lord's people, the Israel of God, nor in an unlawful place, nor by an unlawful entrance, how corruptly soever they ministered: & for corrupt administrations, besides the constitution, in the true Church, we do not think the Ministers are either suddenly, or unorderly to be forsaken. To which I do add further, first, that the words do sit in Moses chair, and whatsoever they bid you do, may more strictly after the Greek be turned have sit in MOSES chair, and have bidden you observe, that is, what you have heard of them formerly according to Moses, that do, and observe. But let the words be as they are, and that Christ speaks of the time to come, yet I see not how in them, the LORD either commands, or approves of his disciples hearing the Scribes, & Pharisees in their public, and solemn administrations: but if he speak of them, than he may only permit his DISCIPLES in respect of their weakness, and being (for the present) too much addicted unto them, so to hear them: or otherwise Christ may speak of such occasional meetings and conferences, as passed ordinarily between the Pharisees, and his disciples: wherein what was of Moses, he wills them to receive from them, without prejudice of their persons: and so we do also will, and exhort the people with us to receive, and reteyn whatsoever of God they hear from you, or any others upon the like occasion. And considering, that in the first verse Christ spoke unto the Math. 9 11. & 17. 10. multitude, and to his disciples, (laying no more upon his disciples in this case, then upon the multitude) and what respect the disciples had the Pharisees in, and how oft, and usually they met, and meddled together, it is very probable, that Christ, upon this supposition, that the disciples would, or should hear, or meet with them, intends only to provide, that the word of God may reteyn all due authority with his, in that confused estate wherein all things than stood: neither commanding, nor approving the hearing of them. And considering what Christ himself testifieth of the Scribes, & Pharisees in that very chapter, that they * v. 13. shut up the kingdoms of heaven before men, neither going in themselves, nor suffering them that would: † ver. 15. making those of their profession twofold more the children of hell, than themselves: what heresies they taught touching justification by works, and perfect obedience to the whole law, how they made void the commandments of God for their own traditions: how they denied in Christ both the person, and office of the Messiah: blaspheming him in his doctrine as a deceiver of the people; in his life as a glutton, and drinker of wine; and in his most glorious miracles as one that wrought them by the" Devil; considering I say these things, it should be strange that Christ should either send his disciples to be taught by these blind guides, or approve of their hearing them, himself also being the only “ v: 8. 10. doctor and teacher of his Church. And this I would know of you Mr. B: & of others which urge this scripture, as here you do, whether you would like it well, or be content, that the disciples should hear any such corrupt, heretical, and blasphemous teachers, as were the Scribes, and Pharisees, and that denied both the office, and person of Christ, as they did. You yourself teach in this very † 15 4. page that obstinate haeretiques are not to be heard: and such were the Pharisees yea so maliciously obstinate in their heresies, as that the Lord jesus insinuates against them, the very * Ma●he 12. 31. sin of blasphemy, against the H: Ghost. If then you yourselves would allow your disciples to hear teachers far less corrupt, and heretical then were the Scribes, and Pharisees, to what purpose do you produce, and insist upon Christ's allowance of his disciples to hear them? Is this fitly to allege the scriptures, or not rather to take God's name in them in vain; To the other scripture, which is Phil: ●. 15. 16 answer hath been given both by others, and by myself formerly: and I now do ad, that those there spoken of, which preached Christ of envy, and strife, had corrupt inward affections so appearing to the Apostle by that special spirit of discerning which was in him, though not so discovered unto others: but what makes this to such as minister in an office devised, and by an entrance found out by Antichrist, and so left to them, which think his mark a privilege. Touching your 3. Argument, which is from Tit▪ 3. 10. 11. I do first observe your grant, that private persons, and such as are not in office may reject obstinate hare●iques, and so by consequence, that the things, which Paul writes to Timothy, and Titus touching the reformation of abuses, and censuring of offenders, do not concern the officers only, much less the chief officers, but even the brethren also in their places. 2. There is no consequence in your Argument, that because obstinate haretiques may not be heard, ●herefore usurpers may. You might as sensibly argue thus: because “ 1 Cor. 5. 11. 12. a fornicator▪ must not be eaten with, but judged by the Church, therefore a covetous person, an idolater▪ a railer may be eaten with, and must not be judged, contrary to the Apostles express writing. In your 9 charge, namely that we hold it not lawful to join in prayer with any of you, and in your comment upon it, you do us a double injury; first in saying we approve not of any of your praying for us: 2. That we pray for you only as we do for jews, Turks, and Papists. For as we are persuaded we fare the better for the prayers of many amongst you, and so both approve of, and desire the same; so do we also pray for many as for the Lords people in Babylon, and that they may at the Lords call, * Revelat. 18. 2. 4. go out of her: and that as they are holy in their persons, so they may be also in their Church communion, and ordinances. Now for the point itself: & first for your Reason by which you would prove it erroneous. If (say you) we hold any of you the children Mr B. of God, than our Saviour hath taught us to join with you in prayer, and to say, Our father with you. You do write in another place of this book, that † pag. 114. a man justly Answ. excommunicated, & cast out is to be held a brother, & so consequently a child of God; for the brethren of the Saints, are the children of God; whereupon if your Argument in this place, and Position in the former place, be good, it must be lawful to join in prayer with a man justly excommunicated. I do answer then, that it is true you say, we ought to communicate both in prayer, & in all the other ordinances of God with all God's children except they themselves hinder it, or put a bar: which we are persuaded they in the Church of Engl. do, in choosing rather the communion of all the profane rout in the kingdom under the Prelate's tyranny, than the communion of Saints, which Christ hath established, under his government. So that it is not we which refuse them, but they us, binding us either to practise as we do, or to communicate in one spiritual body with all the graceless persons, and vile miscreants in the kingdom. For as he which hath hold of any one member of the natural body i● not separated from the body, but holdeth the whole & every member by coherence, so he which is joined in communion with one member of the Church, is by coherence joined with the whole Church, and every member of it. We do profess it is not in neglect of the graces of God, which we acknowledge to be eminent in many, that we deny communion with them: but only in conscience of the order which Christ hath set: & in testimony against the disorder, which Antichrist hath brought Act: 2. 4●. 47. 1 Cor: 1. 2. Phil: 1. 1. into, & left in the world. The order which the Lord hath set, is, that those which fear him should be of a true visible Church rightly gathered: & that any such should be out of the true Church, or commingled with all the profane Atheists in a kingdom, is a main part of antichrist's confusion. Now if God hath set us in the orderly communion of a Church, we must not break our order for other men's disordered courses. Communion is a matter of order, & relation, standing in the orderly combyning of the graces of God in two faithful persons, or more. And how far order ought to praevayl with men in this case let these particulars manifest. One of the Church commits some notable sin known to me alone, which (being dealt with by me) he denies; and without * Deut: 19 ●●. Math: 18. 16. two or three witnesses the Church may not proceed against him. I must therefore still communicate with the Church, and so with him as a member of it, till God so far discover him as he can be orderly dealt with, & till † Psal: 125. 5. the Lord lead him forth with the workers of wickedness. And as I am to communicate with an ungodly man, with whom I am orderly joined in the Church, till I can be orderly disjoined from him: so by proportion I am to forbear communion with a godly man out of the Church, until I be orderly joined unto him. Further, put the case a man be excommunicated in mine absence, upon the testimony of two or three witnesses, and that I know he is injuryed, Math: 18. 15. 16. 17. 1 Cor: 5. 11. 12. & am able to manifest his innocency to all men: yet will I for order sake (& so am bound) forbear communion with him for the present, till his innocency be by me sufficiently cleared. Now if for order I must refuse communion with him, which is put out of the Church for well-doing, by the sin of others how much more with him that keeps out himself by his own default, and sin? So that the holiness of a man's person is not sufficient for communion, but withal it must be ranged into the order of a Ch:, wherein both his person, & actions must combyne, & under whose censure they must come: whereas this other unorderly course destroys the censures, which by Christ's appointment, do extend to every brother whosoever. These things I do desire the godly Reader indifferently, and without offence to take knowledge of: and to rest in this our defence, if it be found according to the word of God: if not, to give us knowledge by the same word of the contrary, wherein we shall willingly rest, and (by the grace of God) so practise. Our 10. reckoned Error, is that ministers may not celebrate marriage X. nor bury the dead. And this M. B: affirms we say, but without scriptures. M B: First, you that charge our opinion with error, should so have Answ: proved it by the scriptures, or some Reasons from them. 2. You speak against your own knowledge, having seen our writings: especially our Apology, where, in the 3. Petition, to the KING, and the fourth branch of the sixth Position, there are almost twenty several scriptures, and nine distinct reasons grounded upon them, to prove, that the celebration of marriage, and burial of the dead are not ecclesiastical actions, appertaining to the ministry, but civil, and so to be performed. You yourself M: B: both affirm and prove in this book from 1 Cor: 12. 4. that “ Pag: 131 the Lord only prescribes the duties to be done in every distinct office of ministry in the Church. And the Apostle 2 Tim: 3. 16. 17 testifieth that the scriptures, being divinely inspired, do make perfect, and fully furnished, the man of God, or minister, to every good work of his calling. Now I suppose M. B: will not be so ill advised, as to go about to prove that the celebration of marriage, and burial of the dead, are duties prescribed by the Lord jesus to be done in the pastors office, or that the scriptures lay this furniture upon the man of God for the proper works of his office. They are then other spiritual Lords than the Lord Christ, that prescribe these duties to be done by their men, furnished by other scriptures than the divine scriptures, the Bishop's scriptures, their Canons, & constitutions: whereby they are fully furnished indeed, with ring, surplus, service-book, and other priestly implements for the business. The Apostle Paul Eph: 4. 8. 11. 12. teacheth, that when Christ ascended on high, he gave unto men such gifts, that is, such ministries of the Church as should serve for the repairing of the saints, and edification of his body, till the work of grace were perfected in all his: and so he makes the work of the ministry, and the edification of the body of Christ all one. Now who will say that the celebration of marriage, or burial of the dead are in themselves matters of edification, or which further the unity of faith. They serve for the general administration of the world, and so are lawful amongst Turks, and Heathens, as to eat, and drink, or to perform any other natural or civil work: and not for the special administration of the Church, or body of Christ, and therefore no works of the ministry, which is peculiar unto the Church. The Church is a religious society, and so the ministry which is given to the Church is a religious calling, and so the proper works of the ministry must needs be works of religion: which if marriage or burying the dead were, than were it unlawful for a faithful husband to communicate with his wife being an infidel, or excommunicate, in the duties of marriage: or for a brother being a faithful person to join with his brother being an infidel, or excommunicate, in the burial of their dead father (for with such persons religious communion may not be kept) whereas the scriptures do commend unto us these duties so performed, both as lawful, and necessary, Gen. 25. 9 & 35. 29. 1 Cor. 7. 10. 11. 12. 13. 14. These are then civil duties, and so practised by the servants of God in all ages: whose practice also for our learning is recorded in the scriptures, and commended unto us accordingly, Gen. 24. 50. 51. 58. 59 67. & 25. 34. Ruth. 4: 1. 2. 5. 9 10. 11. 12. 13. Math. 27. 57 59 60. Act. 8. 2. Whether it be an error in us as in the 11. place ●e are accused, XI. to hold: that Ministers ought not to live of tithes, and offerings, but of the people's voluntary contribution, let the Reader, considering what is answered both by Mr Aynsworth, & Mr Smyth, and what is more Apology. Posit. 7. fully written in the book before named, judge. But This saith Mr B. is against the wisdom of God, who alloweth a M B: settled maintenance under the law: and there is nothing against it in the gospel. But say I, as the Lord appointed under the law a settled maintenance Answ: by tithes, & offerings, so did he a settled land of Canaan, which was holy, and a sacrament: so did he also appoint that the Levites to be maintained there, * Deut: 1● 1. 2. 3. 4. should have no part, nor inheritance with the rest of the Israelites their brethren. And hath God's wisdom so appointed now? If it had I fear many would not rest in it, so wise are they for their bellies. And where you add, that there is nothing in the gospel against this ordinance ●● the law, the author to the Hebrews might have taught you, that the law is abolished by the gospel, in the sense we speak of: and the old testament by the new, in respect of ordinances: whereof this was one. If it be said that † Gen: 14. 1●. 20. tithes went in use, and given by Abraham to Melchizedek Priest of the most high God, before the law, or old testament was given by Moses, I do answer, that so was circumcision ministered, and sacrifices offered before Moses: which notwithstanding were parts of the old testament, and assumed by Moses into the body of it, and so are abolished by the new. To conclude this point, since tithes, and offerings were appurtenances unto the priesthood: and that the “ Psal: 110 4. Heb: 7. 17. &. ●. &. 9 priesthood both of Melchizedek, and Levi are abolished in Christ, as the shadow in the substance▪ and that * 1 Cor: 9 14. the Lord hath or deigned that they which preach the gospel, should live of the gospel, we do willingly leave unto you both your priestly order, and maintenance, contenting ourselves with the people's voluntary contribution, whither it be it be less, or more, as the blessing of God upon our labour, the fruit of our ministry, and a declaration of their love and duty. The 12, and last error imputed to us, is, that your Churches (as XII. you call them) ought to be razed down, and not to be employed to the true worship of God. Our main reason of this assertion, being (as you say) by making equal Paganism, and Antichristianism, you endeavour to weaken M. B. by sundry exceptions. As 1. that there is great difference between Antichristianism, and Pagnism, for this is the worshipping of a false God, and without any profession of the true God: but the other worship the true God, & hold many truths of God. Paganism was wholly without the Church but Antichrist sits in the Church of God, etc. 2. that we are to prove your Churches to have been built by Antichrist. We do not make equal Paganism, and Antichristianism, in the Answ: degree, though we put not such difference between them as you do. And first we do affirm, that both the one, and the other, are not only against that 2. connaundement, but the first also. 2. that both of them may in their degree, and for a time be in the Church: as also that both of them may in time, and in their degree, destroy the true Church of Christ. 3. that as well the relics, ornaments, and monuments of the one, as of the other are by lawful authority to be abolished: and in the mean while to be forborn especially in the worship of God, by all such, as fear him, & his judgements denounced against the same, let us hear what the scriptures teach in these cases. The Apostle Paul writing purposely of * 2 Thes: 2 3. 4. that man of sin Antichrist, testifieth, that he is an adversary and exalteth himself against all that is called God, or that is worshipped: so that he sitteth in the temple of God as God▪ showing himself, that he is God. And as Antichrist cannot be rightly discerned of us, but in his oppsition unto Christ, & exaltation above him, so doth this his exaltation appear sudry ways, by which he doth translate unto himself the honour due unto God alone, & his son our Lord Christ: as in dispensing with the moral law professedly, binding, and losing conscience, devising, and imposing forms of religion, transferring empires, & kingdoms; & all these doth this earthly God (as he is called) by the plenary power of the seat Apostolical. The same also it was, which john for saw in “ chap: 9 20. the Revelation namely, that the Antichristians worshipped Devils, & Idols of gold, and silver, & brass, & stone, & wood, which can neither see nor hear, nor walk, & again, that they † chap: 13. 15. 16. worshipped the beast, which came out of the earth, & the image of the beast, both small, and great, rich, and poor, free, & bond, & received his mark in their right hand, & in their foreheads. And is the man of sin, & devils, idols, the beast, (all which Antichristians worship) the true God? Or is that notable idol their breaden God in the sacrament of the altar, which they so much adore, the true God? Yea are the Virgin Mary, & other saints, to whom they pray go in pilgrimage and perform other devotions, & in whose honour they have built, the very temples we speak of, the true God? Oh Mr Bern: that you should be drawn to this ple●sor Rome? Surely the hand of God is upon you, & it is a fearful thing you feel it not. And as Antichristianism doth not worship the true God only, but false Gods, or such as are no Gods, with him: & therefore is both against the 2. & 1. commandment as hath been said: so neither is Paganism (as you speak) without all profession of the true God. To let pass that the learned of our nation have proved the contrary against the Papists, pleading for themselves, as you do for them, that they worshipped only the true God, that which is written 2 King. 17. (if there were no more scriptures) doth sufficiently manifest your error. It is there said, that * U: 6. 24. the King of Ashur, taking Samaria, & carrying away Israel to Ashur, brought from Babylon, and other Heathenish Countries, folk, and placed them in the Cities of Samaria in stead of the children of Israel. And in the same place it followeth, that those Babylonians, v: 27. 28. 29. 32. 33. and other Pagans retaining still their Paganism, and worshipping, as before, the Gods of their own nations, did withal worship jehovah the true God. Of like truth with the former is that which followeth, namely, that Paganism was wholly without the Church, but that Antichrist sits in the Church of God. For first, admit it be true of Paganism in the land of Canaan, before the Israelites entered into it, yet afterwards it was otherwise, Psal: 106. 35. 36. 37. 38. as the scriptures testify: and got too great footing in the Church, in that place as it had done before in all places. 2. it is not true you say that Antichrist sits in the Church of God: he sits in his own Church, into which the Church of God is degenerated: though there remain usurped sundry things still, which are of God. It is a great untruth to affirm that the Popish Synagogue in the present state is the true visible Church of God, unto which he hath promised his presence, & given his power. As Paganism hath subverted other Churches, so hath Antichristianism that Church long agone. And here I would demand of Mr Bern. what he judgeth of the Israelites in, and after jeroboams apostasy, especially in the time of Ahab, & jezabel, when † 1 king. 17 30. 31. 32. Baal was especially worshipped, and temples, and altars reared up unto him in Samaria? Doth he judge them at that time plain Pagans? Or was their worship simple Paganism? I see not but, as the religion of the Papists, in the opposition it hath to Christianity, is rightly called Antichristianism, so the religion of the ten Tribes, in the opposition it had to the law given by Moses, may fitly be called Anti-Iudaism. And for the Baalims' then, Bucer. and there worshipped, they were even as the lesser Gods at this day, Uirell. which are called Patrons, amongst the Papists. The devil to the end he might bring in again the old Idolatry, craftily borrowing the names of the holy Apostles, and martyrs, by whom it was in former times overthrown, and driven away: and by this means it hath put on another person, that it might not be known. Whereupon it followeth by proportion, that as “ Deut. 12 1. 2. 3. 2 King. 10. 25. 26. 27. 28. & 18. 1. 3 4. the temples, altars, and high places, for those Baalims', & other Idols, were by godly kings to be razed down and taken away, & no way to be employed to the true worship of God, so are the temples (with their appurtenances) built to the virgin Mary, Peter, Paul, and the rest, though true saints, yet the Papists false Gods, and very Baalims', to be demolished & overthrown by the same lawful authority: & in the mean while as execrable things to be avoided by them which have none authority to deface, or demolish them. Now howsoever the difference put by M. B. is neither true, nor to the purpose, if it were true, yet do I grant a difference, not in respect of the things, but of the times, and that there was something legal in many of the commandments given by Moses touching these, and the like execrable things: yet so as there is one, & the same general, and common equity, binding the jews then, & us now: & that I consider in two respects: the one in the detestation of Idolatry past; and the other in the preservation of it for the time to come. And as the godly under the law were to sh●w their detestation of Idolatry by defacing and abandoning the monuments, relics, and remembrances of it: so are they now to manifest in the same manner, their just, and zealous hatred of the same, or like impietyes: and as the kings, and mighty of the earth have in former times given their power unto the beast, and adorned the purple-coloured whore with many ornaments, and with stately temples, & aedifices amongst the rest, so shall they in the day of her full visitation, strip her naked of these, amongst her other ornaments, and leave her desolate. Now for the 2. reason, who is ignorant how many thousands in the land are most dangerously nourished in their erroneous, & superstitious persuasions by the houses themselves (to let pass the particular both memorial of, and incitements unto Idolatry still appearing in some places more, & in some less) knowing none other Church, to which God hath promised his special presence, and wherein he willbe glorified, save in that of lime, and stone: & putting holiness in the very place: And how well your Church provides for this, appears in sundry things; as in whyting the walls of the houses, where you silenced the preachers: in binding the people absolutely to the places, though little care be taken, what either they, or the ministers, to whom they come, do there, so they deal not too faithfully in the Lord's buesines: in tying Christian burial absolutely to the Church, or Churchyard, where the Minister, with all his holy implements, Service book. Homilies Tome. 2. must meet the corpses at the Church-style, and so with singing, & saying, as is appointed, admit it into the holy ground. And lastly in teaching the people, that by keeping their Churches in good repair, they shall not only please God, and deserve his manifold blessings, but also deserve the good report of all godly people. And for the Papists all men know, what claim they lay unto the places (as in deed they do far better fit their pompous religion, than the simplicity of the gospel) what new life they continually receive from them, what religion they put in them, and what devotion they have unto them, ever by how much the more superstitiously bend, by so much the mo●e devoutly addicted unto them. And so far is that from truth which you say, Mr Bernard, that the godly, and Church of Page. 157. God have in Popery kept possession of those buildings, for the godly, which should follow them; that, as they were erected by such, as were most superstitiously seduced, so have they been ever since, the proper posses●ions of the most dangerous seducers in the Romish Synagogue, the prelates, and their Clergy. So that the moral equity of those commandments in the old testiment touching the demolition, and subversion of idolatrous temples, and other the like superstitious monuments, doth as well bind now, as then. Which commandments are also in effect renewed in the new testament, where the faithful are charged to † 2 Cor: 6 1●. touch none unclean thing; * 1 Ioh: ●. 21. to keep themselves from idols, which they cannot do, except they keep themselves from their appurtenances: to “ Jude 23. hate even the garment spotted by the f●●sh: not to † Rev: 14. ●. ch. 18. 4. receive the least mark of the beast, but to go out of Babylon, ‘† ch. 11. 8. which is also called Sodom, and Egypt, spiritually, as for other sins reigning in her, so for her idolatry amongst the rest: which I the rather note, that men may see, it is not we, but the holy Ghost, that compares together Paganish, & Antichristian Idolatry. Lastly, where Mr Bernard bids us prove that their Churches were built by Antichrist, their records, as Mr Ainsworth observeth, will prove it: so will their situation directly East, and West, with the Choir, or Chancel always at the East end, and the roodloft in the middle to separate it from the body of the Church, the profane laity: their vacant places for Images abolished, and their popish pictures still remaining: and lastly their names, even the names of the Apostles, Saints, and Martyrs, in whose honour they were built, and to whose peculiar service thy were consecrated. Thus much of the temples, which is the last difference betwixt Mr B. and me, and I confess the least; and this much also of his book. Something remains to be spoken of the Ministers Positions, but very briefly, both because the things in them for substance, have come formerly into consideration, and also because Mr Bernard affords them no confirmation in his 2. book, being shaken by Mr Ainsworth, as they are. ANd to omit the bloody doom which these Ministers pass upon The Ministers Positions Examined. us all (contrary I am persuaded to their own consciences) that we are cut of from Christ for our separation from the Church of England, I will consider briefly of their reasons to prove it a true Church. THe first is, because They enjoy, and join together in the use of those outward means, which God in his word hath ordained for the gathering Minist: of an invisible Church, which are, preaching of the gospel, and administration of the sacraments: which they will prove by the vnf●yned conversion of many: & by the scriptures, Math: 28. 18. 20. Eph. 4. 11. 14. I. First the Church of Engl: namely the national Church, under a Answ: national government, and Ministry, is a popish devise: the Lord having appointed none other Church, under the new testament but a particular congregation (as these Ministers truly understand. Pag: 180. Mat: 18. 17.) with a government, & Ministry correspondent. 2. Before men join together (as a Church in the fellowship of II. the gospel, and communion of Saints) in the ordinances of God, they should be prepared by the preaching of the word, and fitted as spiritual stones for the Lords building, & so join in covenant, by voluntary, & personal profession of faith, & confession of sins: from which how far the body of the national Church of Engl: both is, and ever hath been, all know. 3. As the sacraments are no means to gather either the III visible, or invisible Church, but do praesuppose a CHURCH gathered already into covenant with God, of which covenaunt they are seals: so doth not the Church of England join together in the preaching of the doctrine of saith, which is the outward means for the gathering of the Church. The greatest part of the parishes, as they have only the service book for prayer, so have they only the homilies for preaching. And even in the Parishes where the word is best taught, and the sacraments most orderly administered, yet do not men join in the use, but in the abuse of these ordinances: considering the confused communion wherein, the usurped authority by which, and the book-service according to which, they are dispensed. If the Ministers had only affirmed, that they had taught amongst them such truths of the gospel, as by which the Lord might, and did sanctify, & save his elect, or gather an invisible Church, as they speak, I should not contend with them, but should further add, that I doubt not but such truths are even in many assemblies of Papists, and Anabaptists, and to hold otherwise is a fowl, & cruel error: but where they speak of enjoying the outward means, and by them understand the offices of Ministry, which Christ hath given unto his Church, for the gathering and feeding of the same (for which purpose they allege Math. 28. 18. 20. & Ephe. 4. 11. 14) I deny they enjoy the outward means ordained for the gathering of the Ch: neither shall they ever be able to prove it, except they can prove themselves lawfully, and according to Christ's testament possessed of some of the offices there spoken of. In the 4. place I would the cause, why these ministers speak of IIII the outward means of gathering an invisible Church, & not of a visible, since both the question betwixt them, and us, is about the visible, and not about the invisible Church, and also that the scriptures they bring for the justification of these means amongst them, do speak of the means, & ministries given not to the invisible, but to the visible Church: and if it be not, because they know, that if they had spoken of the means of gathering the visible Church, we would (and that justly) have excepted, that they do not enjoy, nor have not so much as taught amongst them, those doctrines of the gospel, and that part of Christ's Testament, which teacheth the right, & orderly gathering of the visible Church, by separation of the saints from the unsanctified world into the covenant, and fellowship of the gospel, by free, and personal profession of faith, and confession of sins. Lastly, as the preaching of the gospel is the only outward means to gather a Church, so though this means be used never so fully, and men enjoy it, and join in it never so ordinarily, yet except withal they join in the understanding, faith, obedience of, Math. 13. 19 joh. 10. 3. 4. 5. Act. 2. 41. 42. & 8. 36. 37 & 10. 35. & 11. 20. 21. 23. 24. 26. Col. 2. 5 and submission unto it, and that in the order which Christ hath set, they are not made a Church by it according to the right use of it, but do make themselves, by abusing it, a conventicle of profane usurpers: howsoever M. B. and these ministers, and many others do indeed make the word of God a very charm, in writing and teaching, that the bare use (they might say the abuse) of the word, and sacraments by a company of people, though either altogether, or for the most part for fear, fashion, or with opinion of merit ex opere operato, and without all knowledge, or conscience, makes them a true Church of Christ. The Argument from the external efficient, except it work absolutely necessarily, to the effect, is unsound. It were senseless to affirm, that because physic is the means of recovering health, therefore whosoever use physic, are healed: much more to affirm, that because the word is the means to gather a Ch:, whosoever use it, are a Church; since physic is a natural agent, and worketh by a natural power given it of God; where the word is a moral agent, having in it sel● no natural virtue, but working merely by the will of the author, and supernatural efficacy of * joh. 3. 8. the spirit, which like the wind, bloweth where it listeth. The two next Reasons (being indeed one in effect) which the Ministers bring for the justification of their Church, are 1. that their whole Church maketh profession of the true faith, for proof of which Minist: they refer us to the confession of their Church; the Apology of it: and the Anno Domini 1562. Articles of religion agreed upon in the Convocation house. 2. that they hold, teach, and maintain every part of God's holy truth, which is fundamental, and such, as without the knowledge, and believing whereof there is no salvation. All which afterwards they reduce to this one head, as the only fundamental truth of religion, That jesus Christ the son of God who took our nature of the virgin Mary, is ●ur only, and all sufficient saviour: which truth, say they, whosoever receive, are the people of God, and ●n the estate of salvation: they that receive it not, cannot possibly be saved. Math: 16. 18. Mark. 16. 16. 1 Ioh: 4. 2. Col: 2. 7. These two Arguments, for substance, have been handled in the Answ: former part of the “ Pag: 261 262. 263. &c: & 270 271. 272. 273. book, unto which also M. Ainsworth hath given answer in the particulars: of which I entreat the Reader to take knowledge: and do thereunto annex these considerations. First, it is a very presumptuous thing for these ministers, yea or for any men or angels thus peremptorily to determine how much knowledge a man must have to be saved: that if he have just so much, I. than he may be, or is it the state of salvation: if he want any of that, he cannot be saved. Who knows by how little knowledge the Lord may, and doth save a man, that is faithful in the little he knows, and endeavours by all means to further knowledge, and so to further faithfulness? As on the contrary, the Lord rejects many with greater knowledge, for their unfaithfulness, both in not practising the things they know, and in neglecting to know more, lest they should learn that truth, which they have no mind to practise for fear, or in other corrupt regards. And howsoever I do acknowledge a difference of truths, and that some are more, and some less principal, yet do I wish more conscience in the application of this distinction. For whereas the ministers are by the laws, and penalties, Civil, and Ecclesiastical, limited in their doctrine; and both the ministers, and people in their obedience of, and to the truth of the gospel, and ordinances of the new testament, this is made a salve for every sore, that they have the substance of the gospel; the doctrine of faith: all fundamental truths: and whatsoever is necessary to salvation. In which defence (as it is made) there are these evils. First, in it men not only endeavour (which is too much) the curing of Babel, but indeed to make Babel believe she stands in no great need of curing▪ and that her wounds are neither deadly, nor dangerous. 2. It tends to vilify, and make of small moment many of the Lords truths, & ordinances, howsoever these * Pag: 173 174. ministers will not hear of it. And this will appear, if the end be considered of these distinctions, and qualifications: which is, that men should settle themselves, without pressing further in the disobedience, and want of sundry of the commandments, and ordinances of Christ jesus, till with bodily peace, and leave of the magistrate, they might enjoy the same. And if † Math. 15. 6. the Scribes and Pharisees were reproved of Christ for making the commandments, of God of none authority by their traditions, do not they make the commandments of God, and ordinances of Christ of small moment, who for the traditions, and inventions of men (yea of that man of sin) though supported by the arm of flesh, have forborn and do forbear (and, so purpose to go on) the obedience of the fame? which whether it be not the very estate of these ministers in forbearing to preach (that I may let pass other matters) for the refusal of subscription, and conformity, let their own consciences judge. And mark their defence. pag. 174. They beleiv, and teach that there is no part of the holy scripture, which every Christian is not necessarily bound to seek, and desire the knowledge of, so far forth, as in him lieth. Here is a great charge laid upon every Christian to seek the knowledge of every part of holy scripture: but no word of his obedience unto every part of it: as if “ Mat. 28. 19 20. 21. Christ had not sent out his Apostles to teach men to observe, to the world's end, but to know, what he had commanded them: and as if † Psal. 119. 105. the word of God were only a light and lantern unto men's eyes, that they might see the ways of God, and not to their feet, and paths, that they might walk in them. The same Prophet in the same Psalm entreats the Lord to teach him the way of his statutes, that he might keep it unto the ver. 33. 34. end: & that he would give him understanding, that he might keep his law: professing also in the same place, that he was comforted in GOD against all that confusion, which his enemies would have brought upon him, that he had respect to all GOD'S commandments: and this respect was not of bare knowledge, but of observation, and obedience, as appears in all the five verses before going. Neither therefore can the ministers excuse themselves from making some parts of the holy scriptures of small moment, and needles, as Mr Barrow chargeth them, because they advise the people to desire the knowledge of them, except with their ver. 6. knowledge they joined obedience; neither ought the people to rest in that unsound advice, considering that, * Iam: 4. 17. to him that knoweth how to do well, and doth it not, to him it is sin: and that “ Luk. 12. 47. to him that knoweth his masters will, and doth it not, many stripes are due. 3. This pleading by the ministers, that they hold, and enjoy every fundamental truth, and whatsoever is of necessity to salvation, (considering the end of it, which is, the stopping of the people from pressing unto further obedience, and profession of the will of God, and ordinances of Christ) is injurious both to the growth, and sincerity of the obedience of God's people. For whereas they ought to be † Heb. 6. 1. led forward unto perfection, this teacheth them to stay in the foundation, as if it were sufficient for the building of the house, that the foundation were laid: & secondly, it insinuates, that it is sufficient, if, men so serve God, as they can obtain salvation, though with disobedience of a great part of the revealed will of God: occasioning them thereby to serve him only, or chiefly for wages as hypocrites do. As if a child should be taught so far to honour, and please his father as he might get his inheritance, but not much to trouble himself about giving or doing him any further honour, or service. Secondly I do answer that this truth, which the ministers make II. t 〈…〉 only fundament truth in religion is held, and professed by as vile haeretiques, as ever were since Christ came in the flesh. May not a company of excommunicates hold, teach, and defend this truth, and yet are they not a true Church of God. III. 3. I deny, that the whole Church of England: hath received, and doth hold, and profess this fundamental, truth: how boldly soever these ministers affirm it. They grant there are many Atheists in the land, (they pag. 166. might say in the Church, for Atheists are, and ever willbe of the Kings, & state's religion) & many ignorant, and wicked men beside, who make not so clear, and holy a profession of the true faith, as they should. And do these Atheists hold, and profess the true faith, and every article of God's holy truth, which is fundamental? Are there not many thousands in the national Church ignorant of the very first rudiments, & foundations Heb. 6. 1. 2. of religion, as the Apostle noteth them down: and can they hold, and profess that whereof they are ignorant? Yea how can any wicked men hold, that CHRIST is their saviour, but they hold an apparently in the eyes of all men? for which notwithstanding these Ministers will have them reputed true members of Christ's body. I ad, that since the body of that Church or nation, consists of mere natural men, and that natural men are Papists in the case of justification, and look to be saved by their good meaning, and well doings, it is most untruly affirmed by those ministers, that their Church accounts none her members, but such as profess salvation by Christ only. They hold otherwise and so profess, if an account of their faith be demanded, as I have showed by the testimony of Mr. Nichols, and could do by the testimony of others, if all men did not see it too evidently. And yet see what these men affirm and that confidently, and without fear, for their advantage: as that their whole Church makes profession of the true faith; that it holds, and maintayns every article fundamental of Gods holy truth: and particularly that jesus Christ the son of God &c. and lastly that they that receive this truth, are the people of God, and in the state of salvation. Whereupon it must follow, that their whole national Church is in the state of salvation. And surely so had it need be (in the judgement of men) having the promises and seals of the covenant of salvation applied, and ministered unto it, and to every member of it. Lastly, though the whole Church of England, and every member FOUR in it, did personally profess the true faith in holiness, as all the true members of the Church do (which are therefore called both “ Eph: 1. 1. saints, and faithful) and that we had do just exception against that profane, and implicit profession, for which both Mr. Ber. and the ministers plead, yet could nor this make it or them a true Church. The bare profession of faith makes not a true Church, except the persons so professing be united in the Covenant, and fellowship of the gospel into particular congregations, having the entire power of Christ within themselves. As hewed stones are fit for an house, but not an house nor any part of it, till they be orderly laid, and couched together: so are men professing faith, and holiness fit for the Church, but not a Church, nor of it, before their orderly combination into a particular assembly having in it the power of Christ for the ministry, government, censures, and other ordinances. A company of excommunicates put out of the Church's order, may profess the same faith they did formerly: so may a sect of schismatics putting themselves causelessly out of the Church's order: so may many particular persons, never joining themselves unto any Church at all. You yourselves define a Church to be a company of faithful people etc. so is not your national Church, but many companies: not distinct and entire in themselves, and so only one in nature, as all the true Churches of God are: but one by monstrous composition, in a preposterous, and absurd imitation of the jewish national Church, and government. Thus much of the Arguments; in the handling of which the ministers insinuate against Mr. Barrow sundry unjust accusations, Pag: 167. 168. which I will briefly clear. As first, that he will account none members of the visible Ch: but such as are truly faithful, not only in outward profession Minist: and appearance, but even in the Lords ey, and judgement: because a Church is described a company of faithful people, that truly worship God and readily obey him. But wherefore should the ministers thus interpret him; doth he Answ: not speak of the visible or external Church, and so by consequence of visible, and external faith, and obedience, which are seen of men. In their Articles of religion a Church is made a company of faithful people: & if they must not be truly faithful, than they must be falsely faithful. And for † Ioh: 4. 23 Rome 15 18. & 16. 19 true worship, and ready obedience, the Lord requires them in his word, according to which we must define Churches, and not according to casual corruptions, and aberrations, brought in by man's fault. 2. They charge Mr. Barrow to hold that every member of our Minist: assemblies is led by the spirit into all truth, and that it is evident, he would Pag: 170. 171. have none to be accounted the people, and Church of God, who either know not, or profess not every truth, contained in the scriptures: because he of firms in his Discovery, that to the people of God, and every one of them, God hath given his holy sanctifying spirit, to open unto them, and to lead them into all truth. It follows not that because he affirms they have received the spirit Answ: to lead them into all truth, that he therefore affirms, they are led into all truth, by the spirit. May not the Papists as truly avouch, that Paul teacheth that the Church, is without spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing, because he teacheth, that * Eph: 5. 25. 2●. Christ hath given himself for it, that he might make it unto himself a glorious Ch:, without spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing? It is then an ill collection, that because one thing is done, that an other might follow upon it, that therefore the latter▪ which is to follow, is also done. And for the point: as it is the work of the spirit to lead men into all truth, & as “ Rom: 8. 9 all that are Christ's, or members of his body, have his spirit, so doth it follow that all the members of the Church have the spirit given them of God, to lead them into all truth, though it have not his full work, by reason of * Gal: 5. 17 the contrary work of the flesh, in this life, where † 1 Cor: 12 12. all men know but in part. 3. That Mr. Bar: holds every truth in the scriptures fundamental, that is (as they expound it Pag: 147.) such as if it be not known, and obeyed, the whole religion and faith of the Church, must needs fall to the ground. Minist: Mr. Ainsworth hath set down his words: from which no such Answ: collection can be made: he directs them, & that worthily, against these deceivers which knowing & acknowledging, that they want many special ordinances of Christ, and are burdened in stead of them, with the inventions of Antichrist, do notwithstanding encourage themselves, and others, by these distinctions that they have the fundamental truths of the gospel, and whatsoever is necessary to salvation, and the like, in a purpose to go on all their life long in disobedience. For which men how much better were it to consider how it is written, that, “ Math: 5. 19 whosoever shall break one of the least commandments and teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven, than thus to turn upon them which reprove them for their unfaithfulness; and misinterpreting their sayings most injuriously, to spend thus many words, as these ministers do, in confuting their own corrupt glosses. Their fourth, and last Argument, is, for that all the known Churches Minist. in the world acknowledge their Church for their sister: and give her the right hand of fellowship. This Argum. hath been sundry times urged by Mr. Ber. and so Answ: answered sundry times both by M. Ainsworth, and myself in the former part of my * Pag: 40. 41. 42. 46. 47. book: whether I must refer the reader, contenting myself with a brief observation of such untruths, and errors, as these ministers are driven unto in the prosecuting of this Argument: as First, that, all the known Churches in the world are well acquainted with Minist. their doctrine, and liturgy: to which they should also add their book of ordination, and canons Ecclesiastical, for their ministry, and Answ. government: than which nothing is more untrue, Beza, which was specially interessed in these matters, will hardly be persuaded of the true state of things: touching dispensations, pluralityes, the power of excommunication in one man, and the like. II. It is most untrue, that God hath sanctifed the testimony of Churches Minist: for a principal help in the deciding of controversies in this kind. It is (though Answ: some help) yet less principal, yea the least of many. 3. That Paul feared that without the approbation of james, and Cephas, III. and john he should have run in vain. Minist: Paul feared no such thing; for he was both assured of his calling Answ: from the Lord, and had also taken, long before that time, good experience of the Lords blessing upon his ministry both amongst the jews, and Gentiles; and knew right assuredly, that his preaching was not in vain. His care was to take away from the weak all scruple of mind, or jealousy of contention amongst the Apostles; he went up to jerusalem to confer with them. 4: That Paul sought to win commendation and credit to the orders which FOUR he by his Apostolical authority might have established, by the judgement of Minist: other Churches. Whereas the Apostle Paul did by his Apostolical authority appoint those orders in all those churches he speaks of, Answ: as the scriptures quoted testify. 1 Cor: 4. 7. 17. & 16. 1. Besides, the Church of England: can win no great credit to her orders by the orders of other Churches, considering how contrary she is in them to all other Churches departed from Rome, whom alone in very many the resembleth. Fiftly, the testimony which john Baptist gave of Christ, is unfitly V. brought for the testimony of one Church of an other. For it was Minist: the proper, and principal work of † johns calling to give witness of Answ: Christ: wherein also he could not err. It is not so with, or between Ioh: 1. 6. 7. 15▪ 23. any Churches in the world. Where it is further affirmed, that there are cases wherein one Church VI is commanded to seek the judgement of other Churches, and to account it as Minist. the judgement of God; for which Act: 15. 2. is alleged: as it is true, Answ. that one Church is in cases to seek the judgement, and help of an other, so is it untrue, that the judgement of that other Church, or of all the Churches in the world, is to be accounted as the judgement of God. Indeed the decrees of the Apostles at jerusalem, being by immediate, infallible direction of “ ver. 28. the H: Ghost, were to be accounted, as the judgement of God: but for any ordinary either Churches, or persons to challenge the like unto their determinations were popelike presumption. To the Ministers demand in the next place. Saith Christ to any VII. particular congregation of the faithful in our land, Whatsoever they bind in Minist. earth, is bound in heaven, Mat. 18. 18. and saith he it not also to the Churches of other nations? I do answer that if Christ have so said to the particular congregations, Answ. who hath said it to the prelates & their substitutes, or to any officer, or officers, excluding the body of the Congregation? Even none but he, whose work it is to gainsay Christ, & to subvert his order? 2. If any of your parishes be such congregations, why do not you as faithful Ministers exhort them to, & guide them in the use of this power of binding, & losing, which Christ hath given them? Or are not you content to suffer them to go on, and yourselves to go before them in the loss of this liberty, yea in a most vile subjection to their and your, spiritual Lords, which have usurped it? And for the Argument it is of no force: for neither hath any one Church in the world that power over an other, nor all the Churches in the world over any one, which the meanest Church hath over any her member, or members whomsoever. One Church may forsake an other, but juditially to censure, or excommunicate it, may it not. The same answer for substance may serve for that which is objected from 1 Cor. 14. 32. Besides, no Church can so fully discern of the estate of an other Church, as it can of the proper members appertaining unto it. Yea I add, that in this respect, we are better able to judge of the Church of Engl: then are any foreign Churches, (notwithstanding our weakness) because they do not in any measure know the estate of it, as we do. Lastly, as that saying of the Ministers must have a very favourable VIII. interpretation, vi●, that the Church hath power to judge of a man infallibly, Minist. that he is in the estate of salvation, so is their other affirmation, that the discerning of the spirits, and doctrine of such teachers, as arise in the Church, is such a gift, as the true Ch: never wanted, as popish an error, Answ. as ever was broached in Rome. For how then can the Church err? or how can it be deceived by false teachers? or how could Rome come to that estate of apostasy wherein she now standeth? Or may not a Papist plead thus with these men? Rome was a true Church of God. Now the true Church never wants the gift of discerning spirits & doctrines, therefore Rome neither hath wanted, nor doth, nor ever shall want this gift: and so by consequence cannot be fallen from the truth, as is pretended against her. To conclude, it is not truly said of these men, that this judging of one Church by another is a matter of salvation. The Ch: Act. 10. 14 15. 34. 35. with 11. 2. 3. 4. 5. of jerusalem was ignorant of the calling of the Churches of the Gentiles, as the scriptures testify. And I would know what the Church of England judgeth of the Lutheran Churches, as they are called. It accounteth of them, as of true Churches. So do not they of their Churches, whom they call Calvinists, but on the contrary repute them as heretical. Whereupon it followeth, that either a true Church may err in judging of an other Church, or else that either the Church of England, or the Lutheran Churches, or both, are not true Churches. Howsoever therefore we do not make light account of the testimony, and judgement of other Churches, as these Ministers accuse us, yet dare we not make idols of them as they seem to do: who wanting both the word of God, and practise of other Churches for their warrant, seek commendation by the testimony which some have given of them in respect of certain general heads of doctrine, in which we ourselves also do for the most part concur with them. Thus much of the Ministers Arguments. Now follow their answers to two main objections made by us against the whole body of their Church, and their Parish assemblies. The first is, that it was not gathered by such means, as God in his word hath ordained, and sanctified for the gathering of his Church. The 2. that they communicate together in a false and idolatrous outward worship of God, which is polluted with the writings of men, vidz, with read stinted prayers, homilies, catechisms, and such like. These objections have been else where prosecuted, and the exceptions taken by the Ministers against them, particularly answered by Mr Ainsworth, and therein their both corrupt, & weak dealing manifested. I will briefly add a few things. Against the former objection they take five exceptions. First, that they might lawfully be accounted a true Church, though it could not appear that they were at the first rightly gathered: as the disciples might be assured of Christ's bodily prasence amongst them, when they saw, & felt him, joh. 20● 19 28. though they could not have discerned, which way, or how he could possibly have come in. Belike than we must believe that the Church of Engl: was Answ: gathered miraculously, as Christ came by miracle into the place where his disciples were assembled. But the answer is, that these men take the main question for granted, which is, that their national Church is for the present, a true orderly gathered Church of Christ; and that so sensibly, as it may be seen, and felt. Secondly, that they might be rightly gathered to the fellowship of the visible Minist: Church, by other means then by the preaching of the gospel, that is, as they expound it, by public, and ministerial preaching; for which they allege our opinion though unsound, yet having force enough to stop our mouths. And do these men deal sound, who to prove a point in controversy, Answ: bring the opinion of their adversaries, which they condemn▪ as unsound? The opinion is most sound, that men out of office (for so we speak) may convert men to God, and that ordinarily: otherwise they may not prophesy ordinarily; nay to what end should they ordinarily instruct, reprove, and exhort privately such, as are out of the way? And where further they make it one thing for men to be sound converted, and an other thing for them to be lawfully made a visible Church, they use craft to cover error. They use craft in speaking of sound conversion, to conceal that profane and hateful error, that a visible Church may be lawfully gathered of unconverted persons. For as our question is about the external, or visible Church, so do we require for it only external, and visible conversion, or that which is seen, and discerned of men, leaving unto God the judging, and discerning of that which is sound or inward▪ according to the difference which themselves truly put from the † 1 Sam: 16. 7. Act: 15. 7. 8. scriptures, in an other * Pag: 16● place. Now that it is a vile, & profane error to hold that men converted, & wicked (viz: so far as men can judge by outward appearance) may lawfully be admitted into the visible CHURCH, I have showed at large in the former part of the “ Pag: 269. 270. 271. 272. 273. 301. 305. 306. 307. 308. 309-310. Book▪ and could if need were show the whole course of the scriptures against it. Mat. 28. 19 20. Act. 2. 40. 41. 46. 47. & 4. 32. & 8. 5. 6. 8. 37 & 9 15. with 13. 42. 43. & 14. 15. & 16. 14. 15. 31. 32. 33. Of like nature with the former, is that which followeth, namely that men may by other means be lawfully made a visible Church, then by Minist. the preaching, that is by the opening, or publishing, of the gospel. For which they instance in those which follow Christ, and professed themselves his disciple●, who yet were not all drawn by his word, but some by miracles joh. 2. 23. 25. some by the report they heard of him joh. 4. 39 s●me by the desire they had to be fed by him: joh. 6. 24. 26. & that, Christian Kings have by their laws been means to bring men to the outward society of the Church, unto which men may be compelled. Luk. 14. 23. It is not true that Christ in his life gathered any visible Churches. Answ: These persons indeed, which followed Christ, were members of the visible Church, but it was of the Church of the jews, which Christ gathered not. He lived and died † Rom. 15. 8 the Minister of circumcision, and gathered no distinct Churches at all from the jewish Church. Secondly neither any of the things named, nor all of them together, without or beside the gospel, are means sufficient lawfully to gather a visible Church. Some of them as miracles, may be means * Mark. 16. 20. to confirm the gospel, and the rest of them to draw men to the hearing of, and outward submission unto it▪ but is alone is the hand of God, as Mr Ber. truly writeth, stretched out to sub du● people unto him: it is the seed of the Lords husbandry: the word of Pag. 118. his kingdom. When the Lord jesus sent out his Apostles to gather Churches, 1 Cor. 3. 9 Math. 15. 19 Math. ●8. 19 20. the only means which came into his heart was the teaching, or making of men disciples: and the Apostle to the Ephes: witnesseth, that the Church, or “ ch. ●. ●0. temple of God, is built upon the foundation of the Apostles, and Prophet●, jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone● but these men, it seems, will have the Church of God built upon the laws of Magistrates, yea upon the reports▪ yea upon the bellies of men. They would be counted Ministers of the gospel, & yet they make no conscience of ascribing the honour which is peculiar unto the gospel, unto so many other, and so mean things. And for Christian Kings, & Queens▪ as as I acknowledge them for nursing fathers, & another's, so may I not for procreant parents, of the Church. It is unreasonable to affirm, that civil causes, as are their compulsive laws, should bring forth spiritual effects, as is the Church or kingdom, of Christ. By this Argument the Turk may make all his dominions a Church in a week, or two. It may as truly be affirmed, that Magistrates may by their laws compel † Act: 2. 41. men to receive the word gladly: to stand in the estate of * v: 47. salvation: to be “ 1 Cor: 1. 2 saints, and sanctified in jesus Christ: to be † 1 The: 1. 1 & 2. 1. 1. in him, and in God the father, through him; viz: externally, and in appearance, and so far as men can judge: for such is the Church, and of such persons doth it consist, as the scriptures cited testify. And for the parable in Luke 14. 23. which they bring to prove that the Church may be gathered by bodily compulsion, as Mr Ainsworth hath justly reproved their folly from Prov: 26. 9 & sufficiently confuted their erroneous exposition, showing that Luke speaketh of a spiritual violence, and compulsion, which the word of God offereth unto the consciences of men: so do I add for the conclusion of this point, that even the blind * Math: 22 15. Pharisees did see, and discern, that Christ meant by the former servants the Prophets, which the Lord the King sent to the jews; as he did by the last, the Apostles, whom, when the jews refused the gospel, he sent to the gentiles, to compel them by the efficacy of the “ Heb: ●4. 12 word (which is mighty in operation) to the obedience of faith. Lastly what compulsive laws soever the Magistrates may make, or execute, it is a vile error to think, & a sinful flattery to bear them in hand, that they have power from God to compel an apparently see pag. 300 flagious person to enter into the Church of God, and the Church so to receive and continue him. The Ministers 3. exception that their Church was gathered by the Minist: preaching of the word: and that the first conversion of their land to the faith of Christ was by the preaching of the gospel, as appears by the best histories. And so they go on▪ and tell us of many from age, to age, called by the same means: who in the time of persecution sealed the truth with their blood, and in the time of freedom did openly profess the same. In the page immediately before going, a Church might be gathered Answ: without conversion: and now their Church was lawfully gathered, for it was converted to the faith of Christ, by the preaching of the gospel. 2. It is both untruly and unadvisedly affirmed of these ministers, that their land was converted to the faith of CHRIST. The defence of their national Church, and of the compulsion of all the flagitious persons in the nation to join, & continue members of it, drives them to this absurd assertion, that the whole nation, or land was at the first converted to the faith of Christ. And where they speak of many in all ages since called by the gospel which also they have sealed with their blood, as I confess this with Mr Ainsworth, (and rejoice for the mercy of God towards them this way) so I doubt not but the truths taught in Rome have been effectual to the saving of many: for which also there have many of them (and no doubt, would many more if there were occasion) lay down their lives against Pagans, & Infidels. But these men should prove first, that the body of the land have been converted to the faith of CHRIST, and orderly joined into particular congregations: and 2. that it hath so continued ever since, even in the times, when the blood of those Martyrs now spoken of, was shed by the laws civil, and Ecclesiastical, made by the body of it, through the seduction of Antichrist, for that purpose: and so that there needed no new gathering after the Romish apostasy, by the preaching of the gospel on the one side, and by willing subjection in free, and personal profession, on the other. That which they add of sundry secret congregations in Queen mary's days in many parts of the land, is but a boast: there were very few of them in any. But where they say, that these did upon Queen Elizabeth's entrance openly profess the gospel, it is untrue; there was not one congregation separated in Queen mary's days, that so remained in Queen Elizabeth's. The congregations were dissolved, and the persons in them bestowed themselves in their several parishes, where their livings, and estates lay. The circumcised were mingled with the uncircumcised, whence came that monstrous confusion, against which we witness. And show me one of your ministers continuing his charge in Queen Elizabeth's days, over the flock to which he ministered (in Queen mary's days) the persecuted gospel. It is certain the congregations (whether many, or few) were all dispersed, and that the members of them joined themselves to the profane Apostate Papists, where their outward occasions lay. As then an handful, or bundle of co●●e shuffled into a field of weeds, though in itself it retain the same nature, yet cannot make the field a corn field: so neither could this small handful of separated people in Queen mary's days sanctify the whole feyld of the idolatrous, & profane multitude in the land, by their seating themselves amongst them. As than it is not true, that the body of the land, in the beginning of Queen Elizabeth's reign, did join unto the secret congregations (so remaining) in Queen mary's days: but on the contrary, these congregations did dissolve, and join themselves with the unhallowed rout in the popish, & profane parishes under their late (mass, & their dumb) priests for the most part: so neither matters it which joined unto which since the unhallowed, & graceless multitude neither could by the word of God join unto others, nor be joined to by them in the covenant of grace and of the gospel, with the seals and other the ordinances thereof, to which they had, or have no right. Upon the same ground also I infer, that it is not material, though the people were not compelled to the profission of the gospel before the midsummer after the Queen came to the crown: if they were compelled to profess the gospel, of, and unto which, they were apparently, and notoriously ignorant, and disobedient, as they were. They knew what they were to look for: and so being, for the most part, of no religion, they set themselves to conform, as the times were, to that, which they discerned the Queen to be of. And for the Preachers, and Commissioners, which were sent before this set day, for the catholic faith of all the Queen's subjects, as I think it was well, so was it not sufficient to make the whole land, or to prepare them to be a true Church: besides that the people were of the Church all this while: the same national, provincial, diocesan, and parochial Church, & Churches consisting of the same persons generally, still continuing under the same government, & ministry, & in the same will-worship, though in a measure reform, as before in Queen mary's days. Now for the Preachers you name, as Mr Knox, Lever; etc. which exercised their Ministry in some of the best reformed Churches, during Q. mary's reign, as the good they did to some few. (in comparison) by the truths they taught, could not make all the Queen's subjects a true national Church, so do we all know how hardly they were suffered in the beginning of the Queen's reign, & that contrary to the public Church-government, & ministry: as also that neither they, nor any others, could or can be admitted to any Church by any ministry received in the reformed Churches, but only by the ordination of a popish prelate whether English, or Romish, it matters not: by which also it is apparent to all men upon what string the English ministry hangeth. Lastly where these men say that many are daily added to the Church by the ministry of the word preached, I marvayl how this can be, and from whence they are added. Addition is a motion, and in every motion, there must be the terms, or bounds, from and to which it is made. All they to whom they preach, are of the Church already: for recusant Papists come not to their Church; and besides the number of them increaseth daily. It seems then they are added from the Church to the same Church. Because this practice of adding men to the Church by the preaching of the gospel was in use in the primitive Churches, and this phrase used in the scriptures: therefore these ministers think they may abuse the phrase, without the thing: and so feed their simple readers with words of the wind. Of the ministers 4 exception, viz: of the uniting of the Queen's subjects Minist: unto those professors, whose fellowship in popery they had forsaken: and of the course taken for that purpose by the example of the godly Kings Answ: of judah I have formerly spoken: of the former part even now: and of the latter else where, declaring. 1. first that the English nation, and all the people of the kingdom never was admitted into the LORDS covenant, by the rules of the new testament, to become a national CHURCH, under national government, as was JUDAH, and all the people in it under the old. If this can be proved I acknowledge myself in many great errors: if not it is vanity, and error, thus to instance in JUDAH, and indeed to revive judaism, and the old testament. 2. That though England had been sometimes a true national Church, as was judah, yet that it did not so remain in the deep Apostasy of Antichrist but was divorced in Rome her mother: whereas judah on the other side, (into what transgression soever she sell) was never divorced by the Lord, but still remained his (though unfaithful) wife: the L. ever & anon, stirring up some extraordinary instrument or other for her reformation, & the renovation of her covenant: with which also the Lord so effectually wrought, as the things are wonderful which are written of all the people, and such, as never shallbe found in any whole kingdom to the world's end. 3. That the reformation by King Edward, and Queen Elizabeth (though great in itself, and they in it under GOD greatly to he honoured) was nothing comparable to that which was made in judah, by jehosaphat, josiah, Asa, Ezechiah, and Nehemiah. These points I have proved at large * Page 276. 277. 278. 279. &c: to 304 else where, and do refer the reader thither for answer, only I will note some particular oversights of the ministers in this fourth exception: as first, where they say they have proved there was a true Church in the land before Queen Elizabeth's reign; they should have proved, that the Land was a true Church: for so was judah. 2. Where they say, that the noble men were sent by jehosaphat only to accompany, & assist the Levites, & to 2 Chr: 17. 7 countenance their ministry, where the scriptures affirm they were sent even to teach. You will have no teaching but by Church officers: therefore you so put the scripture of. 3. That they say, josiah compelled See pag 295. 296. 297. 298. his subjects to the service of the true God: taking compulsion as they do; where it is evident the people did it freely: though I acknowledge he made compulsive laws. 4 Speaking of the authority of magistrates over their subjects they bring in Ezechias proclamation, as they call it, sent to Israel: whereas the ten tribes were not his subjects, nor he their King. And lastly, that the Ismaelites were separated from the Church of God: therein acknowledging that JUDAH was always the true Church of God: which I suppose they will not say of Engl: always, or of Rome: if they do, it is their sin to separate from the true Church. The fifth, and last exception of the ministers is, that Mr Minist: BARROW & Mr GREENWOOD required that the people in the beginning of the Queen's reign should by solemn oath, & covenant, have renounced Idolatry, & have professed faith, & obedience to the gospel, after the example of Asaes' reformation. To which their answer is, first that such a covenanting by oath is not absolutely necessary, as appears in Iehosaphats, & josiahs' reformation. 2. That the people was before that oath, & covenant, God's true Church: which their people also may be. 3. That sundry congregations as in Coventry, and Northampton did publicly profess repentance for their Idolatry, and promised to obey the truth established. 4. They doubt not to affirm that the whole land in the first Parliament did enter a solemn covenant with the Lord for renouncing of Popery, and receiving the gospel. That Mr Barr. and Green: should require, that the covenant Answ: into which the Church entereth, should be by oath necessarily, is more than I know: or then we practise. But that they required, that the people, that is, the whole nation, should so have passed a solemn oath, and covenant, I know is most untrue. All men know they thought the ignorant profane, popish multitude uncapable of the Lords covenant, and the seals of it: & to have required of them an oath for such a purpose had been to have required of them the taking of God's name in vain. Where it is said in the 2. place that the people of judah were God's true Church, before the time of that oath, and Covenant, it is true, and against you. And I would demand of you whether your people were God's true Church, when Popery reigned. Your answer is, so may our people be. You dare not say they were; for than you should acknowledge the Romish Synagogue the true Church of GOD, and that you had sinfully, schismed from it, as Mr Bern. proves against you, and himself: you will not say, they were not: for that would make against you in the point in hand: and would manifest, (as in deed it doth) that the course taken with judah (being the true Church) for her reformation, cannot agree with Rome, or Engl: as a member of the Romish Church for her reformation. To that which is added in the 3. place of Coventry, Northampton, and some other congregations, my reply is, first that this is not likely to have been the deed of the congregations, but of some two or three forward ministers, (a few of the people it may be approving of it) which their successors were as like to reverse. 2. They did not repent of their public idolatry nor purpose to obey the truth in sincerity: of their profane mixture, Romish hierarchy, and ministry, popish leyturgy, and constitutions (according to which all things are administered amongst them) they repented not: and beside they knew right well many truths, which they purposed not to embrace. 3. grant it were (as they pretend) with these few parishes, what must be said of the rest which did not so practise? with whom they make, and always have done one entire national Church, or what is this to the public, and formal state of the Church of England against which we deal. The truth is, these men thus practising, were reputed, (and truly) schismatics in the formal constitution of the Church: and by which this their dealing hath no warrant at all. If we should object unto you the Papists doctrines and practices, of two or three ministers amongst you, not warrantable by law, you would not admit of our exception against the formal established estate of your Church: so neither may we admit of yours, for the practice of two or three, disliking the present state of things, and seeking for reformation of them. Lastly, we see indeed that those Ministers doubt not to affirm, that the whole land (Papists, and Atheists and all) did in the first Parliament of the Queen enter a solemn covenant for renouncing of Popery, and receiving the gospel: but we would see first, how all these swarms of wicked Atheists, and most flagitious persons were by the revealed will of God capable of the covenant of the new testament, and the seals, and other rites, and privileges of it. Otherwise this haling them into covenant with the Lord against his express will, was a profane, & presumptuous enterprise in itself, though I doubt not arising from a godly intent in the Queen, & her chief connsellers being misled by them, whom they too much trusted. 2. We would see what warrant there is in the new testament for this national covenant, or that all the people in a Land (since the Land of Canaan was profaned) should unite into a national Church, under a national government, and ministry. 3. That which we answered in the 2. place to the former branch of this exception, must here again be remembered. 4. this undoubted affirmation of the ministers touching the whole lands covenanting in the Parliament, first inferreth that the enacting of civil laws, and penal statutes by Kings, and States, doth gather CHURCHES: for none other covenant was there in the Parliament. 2. It confirmeth the popish doctrine of implicit faith: see pag. 302 303. 304. & that men may receive, and profess a faith whereof they are ignorant, yea which they dislike and hate, so far as they know it: for so was it with the body of your nation, the greatest part by far being mere † 1 Cor. 2. 14. natural men, and so not knowing the gospel: yea “ joh. 3. 20 evil doers, which hate the light. Our 2. objection touching the outward worship wherein the Ch: of England communicateth, comes now to be enforced. In the clearing of which the Ministers do (to speak on) insist only upon their stinted, & set forms of prayer: for the justification of which Minist. they bring sundry scriptures as Numb: 6. 2. 3. 24. Deut. 26. 3. 15. Psal. 22. 1. & 92. Luk. 11. 2. Now for our more orderly proceeding, I will reduce the things they say to three Answ. general heads (under which I will consider of the particulars) showing how in all, and every of them they are mistaken. First, in that they do confound, and make all one ordinance, Blessings, Psalms, and Prayers. 2. In misinterpreting the scriptures they bring to prove a set, and stinted form of words to be imposed in prayer. 3. In concluding (as they do) that if Moses, and Christ might appoint, and impose a certain form of words to be used for prayer, that then the Bishops in England or others, may use the same power, and appoint an other form of words so to be used. Of these three in order. And first, it is evident, that, howsoever some kind of blessing, and prayer be all one, and so may be confounded, yet that solemn kind of blessing spoken of Numb: 6. and which the patriarchs, and PRIESTS did use in their places, was I. clean of an other nature. In prayer the MINISTER stands in place of the PEOPLE, and in their name offers II. up petitions, and thanksgiving to GOD: But in blessing, the Minister stands in the place of God, and in his name pronounceth a blessing, or mercy upon the people. 2. Whereas this duty of prayer may be performed by one equal to another, by an inferior to a superior, yea by a man to himself: that other of blessing is always from the greater to the lesser: and therefore the Apostle to the Hebrews, to show that the priesthood of Melchisedek was Heb. 7. 17. more excellent than that of Levi proves it by this, that Melchisedec blessed Abraham; taking this for granted without all contradiction, that the less is blessed of the greater. 3. Mr Ber: himself in this book III. makes prayer one thing, and the blessing pronounced upon the people, pag. 148. when they departed, another thing: as he also makes singing of psalms a third distinct thing from them both: as there is cause he should. For first, the Apostle writing to the Corinthians of the diverse I. gifts, and administrations in the Church, speaketh thus. * 2 Cor. 14. 15. I will pray with the spirit, but I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, but I will sing with the understanding also. Answerable unto which is that in † Ch. 5. 13. james, Is any among you afflicted? let him pray; is any merry? let him sing: both the one, and other Apostle making singing, and praying distinct exercises. Ad unto this, that whereas II. in praying we are to speak only unto God, it is otherwise in singing, where we are taught to “ Ephe. 5. 19 Col. 3. 16. speak unto ourselves in psalms, and to teach, and admonish ourselves in Psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs. What greater difference? In prayers we speak only to God: in psalms to ourselves mutually, or one to another. Neither had Mr Giffard any advantage in the words following, where we are taught to sing with a grace in our hearts to the Lord: for by singing with a grace is meant such singing as ministereth grace unto the hearers, contrary to that corrupt, or rotten communication. Eph. 4. 29. And in this, as in all other things, we must propound the glory, and honour of God unto ourselves. 3. There are very many both of david's, and others Psalms, III. wherein there is no title of prayer: but they are merely to be sung for doctrine, instruction, and meditation, as Psal. 1. 2. and many Minist: pag. 192. 593. more. The Ministers write, that the most Psalms that David made, were sung not only as meditations, and doctrines, for the instructions of the Ch: but as prayers to God: because they are said to be sung unto the Lord: for which purpose they instance in one only, which is Psal. 66. 2. 3. Well, not to fall to reckoning with them (wherein they and Answ: I should not agree: for I would except against their picked instance: Ps. 66. 2. 3. which all men may see was not sung for prayer, nor unto the Lord, as they mean, but for instruction, and provocation of the Church to praise God) if they consider it, they should have proved, not that some, but that all psalms are prayers; otherwise they may not be confounded, & made one ordinance, as by them they are. But to come to that which is specially to be observed: even those Psalms, whose matter is prayer, are not prayers: neither is the singing of them, the outward ordinance, and exercise of praying, And this is the very state of the controversy▪ Which that it may be understood the better, it must be considered, that the very same matter of prayer may be used diversely, and so form into diverse external ordinances. It may be read, preached, heard, written, sung, or prayed. Now who is so simple, as to say hereupon that reading, preaching, hearing, writing, singing, praying, are all one? If a man read David's prayer, that * 2 Sam. 15 31. the Lord would turn the counsel of Ahitophel into foolishness: or either read, or sing the 6. Psalm where in his prayer, he professeth, that he causeth his bed v: 6. every night to swim, and waters his couch with tears: or Psalm. 42. that he remembers God from the Land of Iorden &c. doth that man therefore ver: 6. pray to God, that he would turn into foolishness the counsel of Ahitophel? or doth he profess, that he waters his couch with tears every night, & remembers God from the Land of Iorden? or is it not evident he reads, and sings those prayers only for instruction of himself, & others? And so we read in the inscription of the last named psalm that it was committed to the sons of Corah (not to pray it, which they could not do without folly) but for instruction. And as truly may it be said, that the reading of Noah's curse, or Schemies, is cursing, Gen. 9 25. 2 Sam. 16. 5. as that the reading, or singing (for singing is, but a reading in tune) of David's prayers, is praying. But it will here be asked, is it not then lawful for a man in the singing of David's psalms (consisting of prayer) to lift up his heart, and to have it affected accordingly, as he can apply the matter in them to his present state, & occasions? yes certainly, it is both lawful, and godly: but withal it must be remembered, that the question here is not about the inward affection of the heart, but about the outward ordinance: and 2. that a man may so lift up his heart, and have the affection of prayer, and thanksgiving, in preaching, hearing, writing, reading: and yet not perform the outward exercise, and outward ordinance of prayer, of which our question is. Lastly, in psalms there is of necessity required a certain known form of words, that two or more may sing together: according to the nature of the ordinance, wherein many joining vocally, do make a consent or harmony. But who will say there is such simple necessity of a set form of words for prayer? wherein one is to utter a voice, according to the suggestions of the spirit in his heart, and the rest to consent by silence, with saying Amen. By which it appeareth how unadvisedly these ministers and others, do thus again and again urge set forms of psalms to prove set forms of prayer. Thus much of the first head; the second followeth, in which such scriptures are to be considered of, as are brought to prove a set, & stinted form of words to be imposed for prayer. The principal scriptures for this purpose, and unto which the rest may be reduced, are Numb. 6. 23. 24. Math. 6. 9 Luk. 11. 2. It is a troublesome thing that that these Ministers thus urge the letter of the scriptures: as if the question were not about their sense, and interpretation: which they should prove to be for their stinted service: as they should also disprove our reasons to the contrary. But herein they are utterly silent, and think it sufficient to inculcate the words, Thus shall ye bless the children of Israel, Numb. 6. 23. Mat. 6. 9 Luk. 11. 2. and say unto them &c: &, when you pray, say thus, Our father etc. even as the Papists urge these words this is my body. First then we do acknowledge these words to be in the scriptures by them cited: 2. we hold it lawful to use those very words in our-prayers, all, or any part of them, if we be thereunto guided by * Jude, 20. Rom. 8. 26. 27. the Holy Ghost in whom we must always pray, and by whose help we must make our requests unto God. But the question is, whether Moses tied, and stinted the Priests to that form of words in blessing the people: and whether Christ tied, and stinted his disciples to that very form of words for prayer, so to be used by the one, and other, without alteration, addition, or diminution. And that this is not the meaning of the holy Ghost, I do manifest by these Reasons. First, these particles thus, or on this manner, & say, do not usually I. in the scriptures design, or note out the form of words, but the substance of the thing spoken of. Take an instance, or two. When the Lord sent Moses unto “ Ex: 4. 22. 23. Pharaoh King of Egypt, it was under these terms. Thou shalt say to Pharaoh, thus saith the Lord, Israel my son, my first born: wherefore I say to thee, let my son go, that he may serve me: etc. But when Moses came to deliver his message in the next chapt: ver. 1. 2. he doth not tie himself to the self same words, nor useth them. He did not understand, thou shalt say to Pharaoh, & thus saith the Lord, of the form of words, but of the substance of the thing. The same in effect may be said of † Gen: 24. 12. with 42. etc. Abraham's servant going about a wife for Isaak, who, relating to Laban the prayer he made for direction in the buesines, doth not use the same words, when he tells him what he said in his prayer. It seems in his understanding, a man might say thus, & thus, in prayer, though he used not the same words if he spoke to the same purpose. Many more scriptures might I bring, as others have done before me, to prove, that these words, and particles, (upon which these men would reckon the words of their prayers do no way enjoin any such stint of words, and syllables, but only a similitude of matter, and are for direction therein. II. It is evident in the scriptures, that neither Moses, nor the Priests, or other holy men stinted themselves to these words. 1 Sam. 1. 17. and 2. 20. Deut. 33. 1. 2. etc. 2 Chron. 6. 3. 4. etc. III. Thirdly, why do not the ministers now tie themselves to this form of words in blessing the people: they being * Isa: 66. 21. Gal: 6. 16. the Lords Priests, and Levites, & the Ch:, the Israel of God? This blessing was no ceremony, or shadow to be abolished, but moral, & perpetual. 4. If the Lord jesus in directing his disciples to pray, prescribe FOUR them a certain form of words, to be used, when he bids them pray thus, or after this manner: & when they pray, say, then either Matthew, or Luke miss in Christ's intendment▪ for they (as all may see) record not the same certain form of words. If defence be made, that they speak of two several times, wherein Christ gave this direction, I answer such a man, that if that be granted, it makes against him: for Christ intended the same thing in both places, & at both times: whereupon it follows that the use of a certain form of words, was no part of Christ's intendment. It is evident that these words of Christ, pray thus, and when you pray, say, are a commandment, binding his Church to the world's end, in all places, and at all times: and that when you pray, say, is V. as much as▪ whensoever, or ●● what time soever, you pray say: as, when they deliver you up, Math. 10. 19 when one saith I am Paul's, &c. 1 Cor. 3. 4. when ye come together etc. Chap. 14. 26. is as much as, when or at what time soever, they deliver you; when soever one saith, I am Paul's: whensoever ye come together. And to let pass all other scriptures, in the 6 of Matthew where Christ delivers this form, & speaks of this, and the like matters, when thou givest thine alms, v: 2. when thou prayest, v: 5. when ye fast, v: 16. that is, whensoever thou givest alms, fastest, or prayest. Whereupon it followeth necessarily, that, if Christ the Lord intended a set form of words, when he directed his disciples to pray, and bade them, when ye pray, say, then, whensoever we pray, we must use that very form of words, & none other. For the words of Christ are not a permission, as the Ministers insinuate, but an absolute commandment: neither is the question, as they untruly lay it down, whether it be lawful to use these very words in prayer, but whether it be necessary, and that when, or whensoever we pray: for that which Christ intends, he commands: and what he commands, he commands to be done, when, or whensoever, we pray. And these things considered, it is no absurd objection, (as these Ministers make it) that we never read the Apostles did use this prescript form of words in prayer. For reading of many forms of prayer they used, and never of this, we are assured that Christ did not stint them to this form of words, nor command them when they prayed to use them: for than they had sinned, when they prayed, and used them not. Christ jesus in the same place teacheth his disciples as well touching VI alms, & fasting, as prayer: and in particular, that * v. 17. when Mat. ●. they fast, they should anoint their head, and wash their face. Now who is so ignorant as to affirm, that Christ's purpose herein is to bind them to these ceremonies? and why not as well, as to tie them to these very words? He saith as well, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face, as when thou prayest, say, Our Father, etc. yea touching prayer itself, he as well directs, and teacheth his disciples what, or how to do, as what, or how to speak. He saith as well, when thou prayest, enter into the Chamber, & shut v. 6. the door, as when thou prayest, say, Our Father: As then the purpose of Christ in teaching his disciples, when they fast to anoint their head, and wash their face; and when they pray, to enter into their chamber, and to shut the door, is not to tie them to that very form of ceremony, but to advertise them to beware of all hypocrisy, & vainglory in these things: so when he teacheth them to pray on this manner, his purpose is not to tie them to the very form of words, but to admonish them to beware of all vain babblings, and superstitious repetitions: and to ask in faith of God the father who knows their wants beforehand. v: 7. 8. Lastly, as we are commanded to pray the Lords prayer, (as it VII. is called) so are we to preach the word of God. But as if a man take 2 Tim. 4. ●. the scriptures, and read them, or some part of them unto the people, or commit the same to memory, and so utter it, this is not preaching: so neither is the reading of this prescript, or repeating it by memory, praying. Indeed in preaching we must ever make the scriptures our text, and groundwork, and must speak according unto them: and may take a verse, two, or more, & use them, even word for word, as they fit our occasion, and may be applied to our purpose: so in praying we must make this prescript ever (as it were) the text, and groundwork of our prayer, & must pray according unto it: and may use a petition, two, or more, or all in, or of it, even word, for word, if so the holy Ghost (by whose immediate teachings, and suggestions all our requaests must be put up) do direct us, and that we can apply the same words to our present occasions, and needs. The same which I have said touching the preaching of the word, may be added in respect of the administration of the sacraments. The Apostle writing to the Corinthians about the Lords supper, advertiseth them, that † 1 Cor. 11. 23. he received of the Lord, that which he delivered unto them. Now he that looks into the 3. Evangelists, that mention this institution, and compares either one of them with Math. 27. 26. Mark. 14. 22. Luk 23. 19 another, or Paul with any of them, he shall find, that the ordinance stands not at all in the prescript form of words, wherein they all differ each from others. It is evident that the Lord administered this supper but once: & that in a certain form of words. And that which the Lord delivered unto his disciples, these four penmen of the Holy Ghost delivered to the Churches. Now the great liberty, which they use in respect of forms of words▪ (wherein they differ each from others) shows, how little this institution▪ and ordinance stands upon such stints: as also how far it is from the meaning of Christ, that the Churches should be thus short tied in the use of them. The same may be said of the ordinance of prayer, by Christ given to his Church: wherein the two Evangelists, that mention it, do use the same liberty: as most likely would the other two also have done, in respect of forms of words, had they made mention of it. But grant, that the words of Christ, pray after this manner, & when you pray, say, are to be interpreted, as these men would have it, yet do I except against their service-book in a double respect. The first is, that the reading of prayers upon a book hath no justification from them. If it be said, that to commit a certain form of words to the memory, and from it to utter them, and to read them upon a book, are all one, I deny the consequence: and though I approve not of the former, yet is the latter far the worse. For (besides, that he, that readeth, hath an other speaking to him (as it were) even he, whose writing he reads, and himself speaks not to God, but to the people, to whom he reads) in the former, there is a kind of use, though not lawful of the gift of memory: where in the other book-praying there is no use of that, or any other gift. Secondly, it follows not, that because the Lord jesus might impose a set form of words to be used for prayer, that therefore the Lord Bbs of England may impose an other set form so to be used. The consequence is notably both erroneous, and presumptuous. So bold indeed are they, and so high do they advance themselves in their ordinances, and impositions. Because the Lord hath separated one day from the rest, and made it holy, therefore they will also make other holy days: because Christ hath set down canons, and constitutions for the government of his Church, therefore they also will have their canons, and constitutions: because he hath appointed a form of administering the sacraments, therefore they may appoint another form, yea and that such a one as altereth, and inovateth the very nature of the words of institution. For where Christ would have the words of institution published, and preached, this is my body which is given for you, they Luke 22. 19 1 Cor: 11. 24. turn this preaching into a prayer, the body of our Lord jesus Christ, was given for the, preserve thy body and soul into eternal life etc. repeating the same also to every several communicant: which Christ would have pronounced once for all, according to the nature of the ordinance. And thus they will † Ezech: 43. ●. set their thresholds by the Lords threshouldes, and their posts by his posts: and rather than they will want room for their own, they will pair of part his, yea wholly dimolish them. If the Lord jesus appoint one ordinance for his Church, they will appoint an other; and surely, so they may lawfully: if they be, as they are reputed, & protend themselves, Lord Bishops, and Arch Bishops of the Church, and spiritual Lords, over God's heritage. To these things I will add a few reasons against this read stinted service, and so conclude both the matter, and the book. And first it cannot be an ordinance of Christ, because the Church I. may perfectly, and entirely worship God, without it, with all the parts of holy and spiritual worship; as did the Apostolic Churches for many years before any such liturgy was devised, & imposed: and as do many Churches now: and as appears by that which is done before & after sermons, where no such stint is read of, what may be done at all times, and in all places, where able & lawful ministers of the new testament, are. II. As the administrations of the public prayers of the Church is a principal duty of the minister, for which a special gift and Isa: 56. 7. Math: 21. ●3. Act. 6. 4 qualification is required, so cannot the reading of a service book be that administration, because no special, or ministerial gift is required for it. III. The two feet upon which the dumb ministry stands, like Naebuchad-nezzars Image upon the feet of iron, and clay, are the book of Dan: 2. common prayer, and of homilies: the reading of the former (which is the right foot) serving them for prayer, & of the other for preaching: which feet, if they were smitten as were the other, with the stone cut without hands, the whole Idol-preisthood would fall, and be broken a pieces, as that other image was. And here I would entreat them, that have written, and are persuaded so much against the reading of the Apocrypha books of the Machabies, & those which follow them, in the congregation, especially them, which have so sufficiently dealt against Mr Hutton, & his fellows, to turn the face of their Arguments general against the Apocryphal service book; and they will silence that book, as well, and as much, as the rest (like women in the Church) as they speak. As it were a ridiculous thing for a child, when he would ask FOUR of his father bread, fish, or any other thing he wanted, to read it to him out of a paper: so is it for the children of God (especially for the ministers of the gospel in their public ministrations) to read unto God their requests, for their own, and the Church's wants, out of a service book, wherein they are also stinted to words and syllables: by which also they, and the people with them, are Ezech: 4. 16. under a greater death, then if they ate bread by weight, & drank water by measure. Lastly if this use of the service-book be sanctified of God for the public, and solemn prayers of the Church, & so deemed by these ministers, and others the forward people in the kingdom, what is the reason why they so seldom, yea or rather never, use the same, or any other of the like nature in their families, but do on the contrary lay aside all books save that of the spirit, by whose alone, and immediate direction they are taught, and according to whose suggestions, they do put up their supplications unto God? Do we not all know, that the more forward sort of proffessours would be ashamed of any such book prayers in their families. And hath the Lord sanctified that for his house which is not holy, and good enough for their houses? will they worship God with that worship publicly, whereof they are ashamed privately? can private men bring forth the conceptions of the spirit without the help of any such service book, and do the lawful ministers of the gospel stand in need of it for the manifestation of the spirit of prayer given them, for the use, and comfort of the Church? * Mal: 1. 14. cursed be the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a corrupt thing. If these ministers then, and others, have a better sacrifice of prayer and thanksgiving, than their service book (as their own practice both private, and public (when they have liberty,) shows they have) and that so themselves judge, see them learn to fear him, that is a great King, and whose name is terrible, even the Lord of hosts. To him through Christ the only “ master and teacher of his Church, be praise for ever. He, even God the Father, for his son Christ's sake, show his mercy in all our aberrations, and discover them unto us more, and more; keep us in, and lead us into his truth: giving us to be faithful in that we have received, whether it be less or more; & praeserving us against all those scandals; wherewith the whole world is filled, Amen. CHristian Reader, whilst I was printing my defence against Mr Ber: Invective, his reply came forth in a second treatise; to which I have also given answer in all the particulars which are of weight. And for that I have been occasioned by the one, and other book, to handle all the points in difference, I entreat the to compare with this my defence such other oppositions especially as respect myself, whither in print, or writing, till more particular answer be given. The principal scriptures, brought on both sides for the present controversy, expounded and applied. LEviticus 20. 24. & 26. 11. 12. pag. 328. 329. jeremy 23. 22. pag. 103. 377. The two parables of the field, and draw net, Mat. 13. p. 116. 117. 118. 119. 120. 121. 122. Math. 18. 17. Tell the Church p. 170. 171. 172. 177. 178. etc. to 235. 238. 239. Math. 23. 1. 2. 3. pag. 433. 434. 435. 436. Mark. 9 39 pag. 77. joh. 10. pag. 385. 386. 387. 388. joh. 17. 6. 9 14. 15. 16. p. 332. 333. 334. Act. 2. 40. p. 330. 331. Act. 13. 1. 2. p. 366. 367. Act. 1●. 2. 3. 4. 199. Act. 19 8. 9 pag. 331. 332. Act. 21. 18. pa. 200. Rom. 10. 14. pag. 380. 381. 1 Cor. 1. 11. pag. 190 191. 1 Cor. 5. pag. 158. 159. 190. 191. 239. 240. 241. 242. 1 Cor. 9 1. 2. p. 11. 381. 382. 383. 1 Cor. 11. 18. pag. 252. 253. 1 Cor. 14. 1. 3. 22. 24. pag. 235. 236. 237. 2 Cor. 2. 6. pag. 243. 206. 207. 208. 2 Cor. 6. 12. 15. 16. 17. 18. p. 322. 323. 324. 325. 326. 327. 328. 334. 335. 336. 337. Ephe. 4. 11. 12. pag. 159. 160. 162. 163. Phil. 1. 15. 16. pag. 119. 435. 1 Tim. 4. 6. pag. 378. Titus 1. 15. pag. 251. 1 Pet. 2. 9 10. pag. 44. 45. Rev. 2. & 3. pa: 167. 168. 169. A TABLE OF THE PRINCIPAL matters contained in this treatise. A OF Antiquity pa: 32. 33. 50. The order of the separated Churches more ancient, then that of the Ch: of Engl: p: 40. 41. The Apostles commission peculiar. pag. 147. 155. 156. Wherein ordinary Ministers succeed them. pa: 156. Neither the Bishops of Rome, nor Engl: the Apostles successors. p: 405: 364. Authority to be obeyed p: 18. Differently in things civil, & ecclesiastical, pa: 29: 30. B. The Church not constituted, no● the members admitted by Baptism. pa: 283. 284. Baptism in Rome, and Engl: how true, and how false. p. 284 285. How Baptism is a note of sayntship, & of the Church. p: 110 See Sacraments. Why we reteyn the Baptism received in Rome, and Engl: & not the Ministry. pa: 390 391. 392. 393. 394. 395. See Ordination. C. Christ's headship in a great measure denied in the Ch: of Engl: pa: 261. in the administration of his prophecy, pag. 262. 263. priesthood, p: 263: 264▪ kingdom, p: 264:— 268. Christ's kingdom, and the government of it spiritual p: 38. yet visible: p: 99 110▪ The kingdom of Christ to be administered as solemnly, & publicly, as his prophesy, or priesthood. p: 228— 230. 350. Of the visible, & invisible Ch▪ pa: 105. 106: 311— 313. Of the gathering and constitution of the visible Church, p: 220:. 221. 292▪ 233. See profession of faith. Who are true members of the visible Church, pa: 105:— 107. See saints. The Church no mixed company, but simple, and uniform, p▪ 112:— 121: 337. Persons apparently, and visibly wicked no true members of the Church, whatsoever in word they profess, p: 268: 269:— 274 304: 305:— 310. Where also Mr Bern: plea for them is disproved. The constitution of the Church, what it is: and of how great account, pa: 73: 77. 81: 82: 88: 93 94. 95. 98. The Church superior unto the Officers, p: 200: 201: 217. & how, pa: 218: 219: 220: 223. The Officers are the Churches, & not the contrary, pa: 127: 132: 211. Churches are before Officers, p: 126. 127: 211. 221. 366. 396 397:— 399. Without which the Ministers cannot exist, p: 393: 294. The covenant of the L. makes the Ch: in general pa: 283. 311 The Church of Engl: uncapable of it. p: 311: 313: 319: 221 322. 338: 339: 340. Two, or three faithful people in the covenant of the gospel (or of Abraham) though without Officers, are a Church. p. 125 126:— 129: 190. 423. Having interest in all the holy things of God, within themselves, immediately, under Christ, pa: 131. 132 See Ordination. The Church may censure her Officers, pag. 213:— 220. The properties of the Church pa: 341. 342— 346. etc. The Church to be gathered only by the preaching, or publishing of the gospel of salvatition received, & submitted unto, pa: 89: 90: 91: 315: 447: 457▪ 458: 459. The Church of Engl: not so gathered pa: 89. 90. 91. 459. 460. Of repraesentative Churches, and that the new testament acknowledgeth none such, pa.▪ 194:— 198. and of representations in religion. pa: 231. 302: 303. 304. Of corruptions in the Church, p: 64: 65: 81: 82: 260. 337. how to be forborn, born, reform. pa. 15. 64. 68: 16. No separation from a true Church. p: 247. How a Church ceaseth, p: 247. 248. 249. Of the differences betwixt the reformed Churches, and us▪ and betwixt them, & the unreformed Church of Engl: and that they both cannot possibly be rightly gathered, and constituted, pag. 41. 42: 46. 47. 48. 52. 301. 453. 454. The Church of Engl: against which we deal, how to be considered, p: 319. 320. 339. Neither the Church of Rome, nor of Engl: was ever a true Ch: as was judah, pa: 277. 278. 299. 120. 121. Much less did they so continue in the height of antichrist's apostasy (as did judah in her greatest defection) but were dischurched, 121. Mr Ber: Reasons to prove Rome for the present a true Ch: answered, pag. 278. 279. 280. 281. 281. 282. 285. 286. 28▪ The contrary proved, pa: 288. 289. 290. 291: The reformation by King Edward, and Queen Elizabeth (though much to be honoured) no way comparable to that by Hezechiah, josiah, and Nehemiah, p: 294. 295. 296. 297. 298 299. 300. The Church Math. 18. 17. not the jewish Synedrion 177. 178. 179. 180. 181. 182. 183. 184 185. 186. Not the Praesbytery, or Ch:▪ officers, but the officers & people, in the order set by Christ, the officers, governing, and the people governed, 186. 187. 190. 101. 192. 193. 194. 195 196. 197. 198. 199. 200. 201. 202. 203. 204. 205. 206. 207. 208. 209. 210. 211. 212. 213. 214. 222. 223. 224. 225. 226. 227. 228 229. 230. 231. 232. 223. 234. 238. 229. 240. 241. 242. 243. 244. 245. Of popish ceremonies, & conformity unto them, p. 25. 27, 65. Of circumstances, p. 21. 2● 33▪ 37. and the manner of doing things, pa. 369▪ 370. The communion in the Church most entire. p. 233. 234. Great care to be taken that it be holy, and lawful, pag 133. 254. 255. Of Compulsion to religion, & how it hurts it, pag. 275. 298. 299. 300. 301. 302. 459. The Ch: of Engl: so (& therefore not rightly) gathered, after the Romish Apostasy, pag 292. 300▪ 301. 302. 303, 304. Of Collections, and Consequences, p. 32. 45. Contentions always in the Cl●● pag. 55. 56. E Of the power of the Lord jesus for excommunication, & the reformation of abuses. pa: 32, ●3. Given to every true particular Church. pag. 267. An essential property. pag. 347. 348. 349. 350. 351. Persons not under it with out. p. 100 101▪ Difference between it, and separation, p: 124. F faith, and repentance not to be stinted. pa. 23. 24. All things must be done in faith, pag. 18. 28. and in things doubtful suspend, pa: 19: 34. Of Fundamental truths, & such as are necessary to salvation, pa: 31. 32. 376. 448, 449. 450. 451. G The difference betwixt civil, and ecclesiastical, government, and governors, p▪ 135. 136▪ 137. 164 165. 166. 168. See Christ's kingdom. Church-government a mere Church-service. p. 217. 137. 225. I. How w●e, & the jews one, pa: 196. 211. Their extraordinary privileges. p: 248. No separation from that Church. p. 250. Their government no pattern for ours, p: 174. 194. 195. 196. 197. 198. Their Synagogues not as our Churches now. pa: 427. Excommunication, or dissynagogueing amongst them no divine, spiritual, and distinct ordinance, p: 187. 188. 189. 190. Of things indifferent, p. 25. 27. & their unseasonable use, p. 36. 37. K. Keys of the kingdom of heaven, given to the whole Ch: pag. 146. 147. 148. 149. 150. 152 153. & in what order. 399. 400. ●●5. L. laws ecclesiastical in Engl: pag. 20. 21. bind, and lose the conscience, pag. 264. 265. 39 M. Ministry left by Christ, p. 192. 356. Unlawful Ministers not to be communicated with, what truths soever they teach, pa: 17. 79. 80. 162. 163. Difference in the administering of doctrine, and discipline, pa: 165. 151. 234. 238. The Ministry of Engl: disproved, and the Reasons for it answered. pag. 162. 163. 173. 174. 175. 265. 266. 346. 356. 357. 358. 359. 360. 361. 362 363. 364. 370. 377. 378. 379. 385. 386. 389. 390. True ordinary Ministers tied to a particular assembly, pa: 393. 394. 395. True Ministers cannot be in a false Church pa: 360. 361. Conversion of men to God no note of a true Minister, pa: 10: 11: 51. 69. 379. 380. 381. 382. 383. 384. 385. The Ministers in Engl: all of the same constitution, pa: 351. 352. Theirs, and the Romish Ministry the same, in respect of the office, power to administer it, and most of the works. pa: 358. 359. 411. Preaching of the gospel no part or property of the Ministry in Engl: but a thing casual, p. 353. 354. 355. Of the calling of Ministers: wherein the people's right is proved, & Mr B: objections answered. p. 144. 145: 146. 360. 361. 365. 367. 371:— 376. Ministers by their office not to celebrate marriage, nor bu●y the dead, p. 438. 439. Their maintenance, p. 439. 440. O. Of offence p. 18. 19 37. 39 Officers not simply necessary for the public administrations in the Church, pag 137. 138. 139— 144. 165. 166. 167. The brethren out of office not mere private persons, p: 423. 424. Of the officers usurpation p. 367. 368. 367. 132. 133. Ordination may in cases be performed by such, as are no officers, pa. 400. 401. 402:— 423. Ordination, & Baptism vn●●tly compared, p▪ 413. See Baptism. P Praetence of peace, pa: 13. 14. 15. Of pollution by other men's ●●nns, and how it comes, pag. 244. 245. 249:— 254: 256— 259. Of preaching or publishing the gospel pa: 70. 71. 72. 73. The true Church gathered by it only. See Church. How a note of the Church, See word. The constitution of the Church, & it deceitfully opposed. p. 37. See Church. Of profession of faith. & prosessours: p. 7. Profession makes not a Church pag. 452. The profession of faith required by the scriptures, p: 90. 91. 270 271. 272. 274. That in Engl: compared with it, p. 58. 91. 274. 275. 316. 450. 451. Of prophesying out of office, p. 235:— 238. R Reformation to begin at ourselves, & so to pass to others, p. 24. 133. Preposterous reformation in Engl: made, and desired, pa: 300. 301. The people interessed in the reformation of public scandals in their Church, (in their places) as well as the officers. p. 142. 143. 164. 165:— 170. 242. 343. as also in other Church affairs. p. 190. 200 201:— 204. See Ordination, & Mat. 18. 17. exp. S. Sacraments, do not constitute a Church, but presuppose a Ch: constituted. pa: 91. 283. 284. how notes of the Church, p. 317. 342. 343. 344. not given by the Lord to any parish▪ Changed in Engl: p. 319. 320 Of their Ministration in England, p. 91. 92. 93. 425. Of Saints, & saintship. p. 107. 108:— 1. 1. Of succession, see Ordination. T Of the Temples by Mr Bern: called their Churches p. 440. 441. 442: 443. 445. 446. W. How the Word of God makes, & notes out the Church, p. 89 315. 447. Of the Worship in the Church of Engl:— p. 424: 425. 426. 427. 429. 430. The use of their devised leitourgy is not the true manner of worshipping God; neither can Mr. Ber: or the Ministers justify it, pa: 425. 426. 428. 429. 466. to the end. Errata. pag. l. For contradictions, read contraries pag. 42. l. 20. For approbation read exprobration 62. 15. for sword, read head. 89. 21. read, with Zerubbabel 94. 29. for discharged, read dischurched 107. 6. for discharging read dischurching 128. 19 for joseph, r: Pharaoh 175. 17, for of read or 176. 27. for quality r: quantity 195. 36. for endeavours, r: endeavourers 209. last line. for false read true. 359. 1. for Eph: r: Epist: 422. 25. r: be in the 433. 16. for the, read your. 435. 9 r: would not allow 435. 16. for preservation, r: prevention 443. 14 r: would know the 446. 26. for converted r: unconverted. 457. 34. for Papists r: popish. 465. 12. The Printer to the Reader. I Gentle Reader. Sundry other faults in the printing are escaped, in words, letters, points; whereof some shallbe amended to thy hands; the rest, in the reading help thyself by the sense, or otherwise. Impute not the Printers faults, to the Author: but reckon the most and greatest mine, and the least, and smallest his.